1 2010-09-22 09:33:20 <cdecker> Well it's a project with 1'500'000 sloc
  2 2010-09-22 09:33:29 <cdecker> So, no I don't see a problem
  3 2010-09-22 09:35:33 <bonsaikitten> uhm
  4 2010-09-22 09:35:43 <bonsaikitten> wow
  5 2010-09-22 09:35:46 <bonsaikitten> what does it do?
  6 2010-09-22 09:38:38 <cdecker> It's an annotation web application for genetic research data
  7 2010-09-22 09:38:47 <cdecker> It controls all our analysis tools
  8 2010-09-22 09:40:23 <bonsaikitten> I find it hard to see how you can end up with that much code
  9 2010-09-22 09:40:46 <cdecker> Ever tried to talk to a mass spectrometer over UDP?
 10 2010-09-22 09:42:32 <bonsaikitten> no, I usually don't have such tools just standing there
 11 2010-09-22 09:42:41 <bonsaikitten> and I find UDP an interesting choice of protocol :)
 12 2010-09-22 09:42:54 <cdecker> it's not our choice
 13 2010-09-22 09:43:24 <cdecker> We got the protocol from the seller and implemented on our own
 14 2010-09-22 09:43:41 <cdecker> Since integrating the tool into our project would have been harder
 15 2010-09-22 09:44:19 <cdecker> We have 21 such mass spectrometers from different sellers
 16 2010-09-22 09:44:29 <bonsaikitten> eew.
 17 2010-09-22 09:44:37 <cdecker> You're saying it
 18 2010-09-22 09:44:45 <cdecker> Fortunately I'm working on the frontend :D
 19 2010-09-22 09:44:49 <bonsaikitten> one reason I really try to stay away from proprietary systems
 20 2010-09-22 09:45:04 <bonsaikitten> I tend to become a bit grumpy and impolite when exposed to too much stupidity ;)
 21 2010-09-22 09:45:06 <cdecker> And to say we were lucky to get the protocol specs ^^
 22 2010-09-22 09:45:41 <bonsaikitten> head, meet desk :)
 23 2010-09-22 09:46:19 <cdecker> Well anyway got to go
 24 2010-09-22 09:46:27 <cdecker> Have to prepare lunch :D
 25 2010-09-22 09:46:33 <cdecker> See you around guys ^^
 26 2010-09-22 10:49:13 <necrodearia> Regarding storing everyone's wallet in an encrypted fashion, it would be nice to prepare the wallet as encrypted through the software itself, perhaps specifying an encryption key in the configuration file.
 27 2010-09-22 10:49:37 <necrodearia> That way if wallet files are distributed hosted on 3rd party sites for safekeeping, they are encrypted and not easily used by others.
 28 2010-09-22 10:50:10 <lfm> that way anyone who want to steal your wallet just needs to steal the config file from the same directory at the same time
 29 2010-09-22 10:53:12 <necrodearia> lfm: If someone is able to steal your wallet file, then you already lost.  So adding a configuration parameter for key to encrypt the wallet file just adds an extra file to copy.  However, in regards to providing better/safer mechanism for storing wallet files on 3rd party hosting providers for safekeeping/storage, it provides opportunity for that.
 30 2010-09-22 10:54:29 <lfm> if the wallet file is encrypted with a password NOT stored in a file then they can steal the wallet file and not be able to use it
 31 2010-09-22 10:57:19 <lfm> if you only need the backup files encrypted then ANY file encryption utility would work fine
 32 2010-09-22 10:58:58 <UukGoblin> why not just use mcrypt?
 33 2010-09-22 10:59:10 <necrodearia> lfm: Ah, that is true also, regarding password not stored in a file.
 34 2010-09-22 10:59:16 <UukGoblin> oh yeah what lfm said, /any/ file encryption utility
 35 2010-09-22 11:00:24 <necrodearia> lfm: Perhaps, to account for general computer populace having no idea how to securely create an encrypted backup of wallet file, that such an option should be integrated into the Bitcoin client.
 36 2010-09-22 11:00:45 <edcba> what for ?
 37 2010-09-22 11:01:04 <lfm> necrodearia, bad idea. its not bitcoin's job to educate the world
 38 2010-09-22 11:01:12 <necrodearia> mm
 39 2010-09-22 11:01:25 <edcba> i am not sure it is application's job to enforce local security anyway
 40 2010-09-22 11:01:42 <necrodearia> Perhaps another 3rd party application then
 41 2010-09-22 11:01:43 <lfm> nor to try to make up for the failing of the least educated
 42 2010-09-22 11:02:10 <necrodearia> Maybe Bitcoin client could be extensible or allow for plugins?
 43 2010-09-22 11:02:22 <edcba> OS should just encrypt/protect data for each user
 44 2010-09-22 11:02:38 <lfm> or you build a new gui shell around it for dummies
 45 2010-09-22 11:02:50 <necrodearia> mm, that also
 46 2010-09-22 11:04:09 <lfm> for instance zip has password option that would work fine for backups
 47 2010-09-22 11:04:33 <lfm> for .zip files
 48 2010-09-22 11:06:58 <lfm> linux OS does have encrypted file systems that could be used, even for live wallet
 49 2010-09-22 11:23:54 <edcba> the pb with bitcoin is you can't really backup your keys
 50 2010-09-22 11:24:40 <edcba> or we need a master key to generate new keys in bitcoin program
 51 2010-09-22 11:31:35 <jercos> Encrypt each key you generate with AES or sommat, stick it in a public registry (the network itself?) with a key of, say, the SHA256 of concat(your AES key, index of the key in your wallet)
 52 2010-09-22 11:31:45 <jercos> Back up your AES key, you back up your whole wallet, effectively?
 53 2010-09-22 11:31:53 <jercos> That could have issues though >.>
 54 2010-09-22 11:33:19 <jercos> Like the potential that creates for a confirmation of a crack on the AES key (hey look, this 256-bit string concat'd with a number between 1 and 458 all match generated keys on the network!)
 55 2010-09-22 11:35:01 <jercos> And the obvious issue of a publicly usable hashtable with confirmation of content... (Who knows how long it would take before someone strung together some child pornography into a linked list and uploaded it as a string of keys...)
 56 2010-09-22 11:37:05 <ArtForz> why even store anything on the network then?
 57 2010-09-22 11:37:12 <jercos> I guess you could require people to sign an encrypted key using the key itself, and distribute it with the public key, proving that a key *was* actually generated...
 58 2010-09-22 11:37:32 <jercos> ArtForz: If it's not stored on the network or in a public place, you still have a file somewhere that you control that if you lose, all your keys are lost.
 59 2010-09-22 11:37:38 <ArtForz> just base the output key on hmac(your_wallet_secret, hash of tx inputs)
 60 2010-09-22 11:37:41 <jercos> And it's no better than just copying your wallet.
 61 2010-09-22 11:38:02 <ArtForz> that way you just need to securely store a 256 bit secret
 62 2010-09-22 11:38:22 <jercos> hrm?
 63 2010-09-22 11:39:37 <jercos> Well, I suppose. That would, however, require a method for creating a unique ECDSA key from an input securely...
 64 2010-09-22 11:39:49 <ArtForz> which isn't too hard
 65 2010-09-22 11:40:49 <edcba> jercos: each transaction create a new key
 66 2010-09-22 11:41:09 <edcba> so you would need to backup after each transaction...
 67 2010-09-22 11:41:19 <edcba> so you need some keyed generation
 68 2010-09-22 11:42:18 <jercos> If you were backing up keys, you would only need to back up each key as it's created, not your whole wallet at any one time...
 69 2010-09-22 11:42:32 <jercos> And if you're creating transactions without access to the network, then there's already a problem.
 70 2010-09-22 11:42:48 <edcba> i'd prefer not to backup anything and having all keys derived from my password
 71 2010-09-22 11:43:32 <edcba> or atleast some seed encrypted by a password
 72 2010-09-22 11:44:05 <ArtForz> hrrrm, a cryptographic PRNG (even AES in CTR mode should do) to feed the ecdsa key generation, seed it from HMAC_SHA256(secret, hash of tx inputs) to generate the pub/priv pair for the output
 73 2010-09-22 11:44:16 <edcba> then just save the encrypted seed into bitcoin chain with some stupid transaction ! ;)
 74 2010-09-22 11:45:31 <ArtForz> that way you could regenerate all private keys from secret + block chain
 75 2010-09-22 11:45:32 <edcba> now the bitcoin can create wallet in memory with just a password
 76 2010-09-22 11:46:27 <UukGoblin> hmm I made a trade on mt gox for $0.12 per BTC, I wonder why it's not showing up in Trade Data
 77 2010-09-22 11:46:55 <niekie> UukGoblin: thanks for the +o by the way :)
 78 2010-09-22 11:46:58 <edcba> maybe some cache
 79 2010-09-22 11:47:00 <UukGoblin> niekie, yw ;-)
 80 2010-09-22 11:47:16 <UukGoblin> niekie, I can add auto-op if you like ;-)
 81 2010-09-22 11:47:29 <niekie> UukGoblin: you can? Sweet.
 82 2010-09-22 11:47:39 <UukGoblin> I've never done this on freenode though, shouldn't ChanServ handle it better? :-)
 83 2010-09-22 11:47:47 <niekie> Yeah, it *should*.
 84 2010-09-22 11:48:18 <UukGoblin> where is he when you need him
 85 2010-09-22 11:48:36 <niekie> sirius-m registered the channel AFAIK.
 86 2010-09-22 11:49:34 <UukGoblin> sirius seems to be very busy
 87 2010-09-22 11:49:56 <UukGoblin> took him about four working days to process my bitcoin exchange order
 88 2010-09-22 11:50:28 <UukGoblin> 145014 -!- [  7] Handle: niekie, flags: [none] [password: no]
 89 2010-09-22 11:50:47 <niekie> Hm.
 90 2010-09-22 11:51:17 <niekie> What do those flags mean?
 91 2010-09-22 11:51:20 <niekie> a and o?
 92 2010-09-22 11:51:25 <niekie> (or ao?)
 93 2010-09-22 11:54:11 <niekie> Also, where did you get that from?
 94 2010-09-22 11:54:15 <niekie> (ChanServ?)
 95 2010-09-22 11:54:22 <niekie> Or a bot.
 96 2010-09-22 11:54:45 <niekie> A bot I assume, as ChanServ has now lowercase a flag.
 97 2010-09-22 11:55:04 <niekie> :)
 98 2010-09-22 12:07:13 <UukGoblin> auto-op
 99 2010-09-22 12:07:22 <UukGoblin> an irssi script, friends_shasta.pl
100 2010-09-22 12:09:35 <UukGoblin> I hope I got the hostmask right ;-]
101 2010-09-22 12:09:53 <UukGoblin> I'm not sure what these weird domain names mean in freenode
102 2010-09-22 12:10:01 <UukGoblin> are you using an SSL cert or something?
103 2010-09-22 12:11:24 <UukGoblin> this mt gox is funny... I definitely see I have a Selling order with Status Active for Price 0.12
104 2010-09-22 12:11:43 <UukGoblin> but it doesn't show up in the Trade Data at all, even after I refresh like mad... or does it for you?
105 2010-09-22 12:11:44 <lfm> is it open
106 2010-09-22 12:11:52 <UukGoblin> it's "Active"
107 2010-09-22 12:14:40 <MacRohard> UukGoblin, it won't show up in the trade data until the there is an actual trade executed
108 2010-09-22 12:14:58 <MacRohard> UukGoblin, which there won't be until there are no sell orders below 0.12
109 2010-09-22 12:18:17 <UukGoblin> MacRohard, I mean the "Depth of Market" thing
110 2010-09-22 12:18:42 <UukGoblin> it shows all active orders, as far as I understand
111 2010-09-22 12:22:48 <necrodearia> I cannot make up my mind:  sftp or ftps?
112 2010-09-22 12:23:03 <necrodearia> e.g. vsftpd or proftpd?
113 2010-09-22 12:24:00 <jercos> necrodearia: SFTP is over SSH, so neither of those daemons would support it...
114 2010-09-22 12:24:24 <necrodearia> jercos, neither of those would support what?  it?
115 2010-09-22 12:25:19 <jercos> vsftpd and proftpd both handle FTPS, or FTP over TLS quite nicely.
116 2010-09-22 12:25:20 <necrodearia> proftpd supports SFTP
117 2010-09-22 12:25:40 <necrodearia> http://www.proftpd.org/docs/contrib/mod_sftp.html
118 2010-09-22 12:25:56 <jercos> Okay, that's weird as fuck, but it *shouldn't* so my point stands :p
119 2010-09-22 12:25:59 <jercos> unless you're on windows?
120 2010-09-22 12:26:01 <necrodearia> ^_^
121 2010-09-22 12:26:30 <jercos> Anyway, proftpd will also do FTPS, so if you're judging them on basis of protocol support, proftpd is the clear choice, given that freaky factoid...
122 2010-09-22 12:27:39 <necrodearia> jercos, Do you recommend FTPS over SFTP?
123 2010-09-22 12:28:07 <jercos> They both have their purposes. For general use, I'd highly recommend SFTP over FTPS.
124 2010-09-22 12:28:16 <nanotube> necrodearia: fwiw, i'd go with sftp. :)
125 2010-09-22 12:28:22 <necrodearia> mmkay
126 2010-09-22 12:28:40 <jercos> FTPS, imo, is great when you want to authenticate clients with cryptographic certificates signed by a CA.
127 2010-09-22 12:28:44 <nanotube> since all you need is to have openssh running, without need for an extra ftp daemon
128 2010-09-22 12:29:19 <jercos> Wheras SFTP is more of a "set-up-and-go" thing that, for an SSHd like OpenSSH, will let users set up their own crypto auth, if that want to.
129 2010-09-22 12:29:30 <jercos> necrodearia: *are* you on windows?
130 2010-09-22 12:29:38 <necrodearia> jercos, gentoo linux
131 2010-09-22 12:29:56 <jercos> Then you *probably* already have an SSHd, and thus probably already have SFTP support ;)
132 2010-09-22 12:30:13 <jercos> Though I wouldn't put it past the average gentoo user to remove OpenSSH for "speed"
133 2010-09-22 12:30:20 <jercos> >.>
134 2010-09-22 12:30:23 <necrodearia> o_o
135 2010-09-22 12:30:26 <jercos> Not that you're the average Gentoo user.
136 2010-09-22 12:30:46 <bitbot> I like turtles
137 2010-09-22 12:31:01 <jercos> Lol, bitbot
138 2010-09-22 12:32:48 <jercos> http://funroll-loops.info/ <-- for reference.
139 2010-09-22 12:44:15 <necrodearia> jercos, I don't have a car =/
140 2010-09-22 12:45:55 <jercos> necrodearia: Yes, well, I said you weren't the average gentoo user, didn't I? :p
141 2010-09-22 12:46:14 <bitbot> I like turtles
142 2010-09-22 12:50:44 <UukGoblin> necrodearia, all depends on what you want to do with it ;-)
143 2010-09-22 12:51:09 <UukGoblin> and what your setup is
144 2010-09-22 12:52:38 <necrodearia> I like the ease of which I can recompile bitcoin at will, as well as add, remove or change an included patch in a matter of seconds
145 2010-09-22 12:52:47 <necrodearia> regarding Bitcoin client
146 2010-09-22 12:53:18 <UukGoblin> that's git for you
147 2010-09-22 13:37:35 <Dybbuk> Hey...how is everybody
148 2010-09-22 13:37:43 <Dybbuk> Is there any exciting Bitcoin news this morning?
149 2010-09-22 13:37:51 <UukGoblin> ENOTMORNING
150 2010-09-22 13:39:17 <UukGoblin> ;mtgox
151 2010-09-22 13:39:18 <bitbot> UukGoblin: Mt. Gox: Last(0.0622) High(0.0628) Low(0.0622) BestSellPrice(0.0622) BestBuyPrice(0.0627) Volume(5619)
152 2010-09-22 13:39:28 <UukGoblin> no significant price change
153 2010-09-22 13:39:42 <UukGoblin> difficulty still at 917
154 2010-09-22 13:39:50 <UukGoblin> betco.in still in the dark I think
155 2010-09-22 13:43:33 <Dybbuk> UukGoblin: It's got to be morning somewhere.
156 2010-09-22 13:43:48 <UukGoblin> not here ;-]
157 2010-09-22 13:44:26 <Dybbuk> I'm compiling something on battery power...man, I'm dumb.
158 2010-09-22 13:44:32 <Dybbuk> Oh well.  At least I'm not running Flash.
159 2010-09-22 13:49:48 <nanotube> heh
160 2010-09-22 14:05:25 <LobsterMan> ;nr
161 2010-09-22 14:05:27 <bitbot> LobsterMan: CurrentBlockCount( 81,318 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 917.8309374400 ) NextDifficultyAt( 82,656 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 1,338 blocks )
162 2010-09-22 14:06:01 <necrodearia> UukGoblin, Have you heard of #bitcoin-market yet?
163 2010-09-22 14:07:12 <UukGoblin> lol
164 2010-09-22 14:07:20 <UukGoblin> necrodearia, uhm, no, whazzthere?
165 2010-09-22 14:07:35 <nanotube> UukGoblin: live market data stream.
166 2010-09-22 14:07:48 <UukGoblin> oh fun
167 2010-09-22 14:07:52 <MacRohard> that's not a bad idea
168 2010-09-22 14:08:42 <UukGoblin> so if I make a trade it should show up there?
169 2010-09-22 14:08:49 <nanotube> UukGoblin: yes :)
170 2010-09-22 14:08:58 <nanotube> also bcm bid/asks show up. mtg only trades
171 2010-09-22 14:18:17 <Tritonio> thumbs up of for the archive :-)
172 2010-09-22 14:56:23 <nanotube> Tritonio: yea, i've voted + for the archive as well... though at the end of the day, probably the final decision rests with the ops. :)
173 2010-09-22 15:04:16 <Tritonio> I'll voter in a minute.
174 2010-09-22 15:04:20 <Tritonio> have some work to do.
175 2010-09-22 15:21:55 <necrodearia> Where is the poll located?
176 2010-09-22 15:22:06 <necrodearia> Or is it just a normal forum thread?
177 2010-09-22 15:22:10 <nanotube> http://bit.ly/cQhtGP
178 2010-09-22 15:22:17 <nanotube> necrodearia: --^ it's a normal forum thread :)
179 2010-09-22 15:22:26 <necrodearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=986.0 ?
180 2010-09-22 15:22:27 <bitbot> Freenode / #Bitcoin-Dev Chat Logs
181 2010-09-22 15:22:39 <necrodearia> mm
182 2010-09-22 15:22:43 <nanotube> yep, that's the one.
183 2010-09-22 15:22:55 <necrodearia> kk, I should've known.  I started it
184 2010-09-22 15:31:06 <nanotube> necrodearia: haha
185 2010-09-22 16:48:05 <necro> O_O http://latestinternationalnews.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/6-5-foot-long-anaconda-found-in-a-toilet/
186 2010-09-22 16:48:24 <bitbot> necro And that is related to Bitcoin how?
187 2010-09-22 16:49:03 <necro> Hey bitbot:  Do you liek heavy metal?
188 2010-09-22 16:49:11 <necro> That's what I thought.  Enjoy
189 2010-09-22 16:59:43 <Alystair> so.... cuda-x86
190 2010-09-22 16:59:46 <Alystair> what's up with that ;D
191 2010-09-22 17:01:45 <necro> Hi Alystair.  What have you been up to lately?
192 2010-09-22 17:08:37 <necro> Hi dwdollar.
193 2010-09-22 17:08:52 <dwdollar> howdy necro
194 2010-09-22 20:32:01 <doublec> my machine crashed while bitcoin was running - restarting bitcoin doesn't bring up the gui and the cpu is pegged at 100%. Any tips I how I can resolve it?
195 2010-09-22 20:33:26 <warner> you might look in ~/.bitcoin/debug.log , maybe there's a message there about what it's doing
196 2010-09-22 20:36:32 <doublec> warner, thanks - I'll investigate
197 2010-09-22 20:38:22 <warner> as a wild guess, it might be trying to recover the database (replay a journal, that sort of thing), and isn't drawing the GUI until it's done
198 2010-09-22 20:39:42 <doublec> I thought so too but I left it running for a good 20 minutes and it still didn't come up. It's only a 24kb wallet.dat file
199 2010-09-22 20:40:58 <doublec> I backed up the files, deleted everything and started bitcoin, then replaced the wallet.dat with the backed up version then the gui flashed up and died with:
200 2010-09-22 20:41:02 <doublec> Db::put: Operation not permitted
201 2010-09-22 21:05:04 <warner> hm, doublecheck permissions on the files in ~/.bitcoin/ , maybe something got chmod a-w or something?
202 2010-09-22 21:05:14 <warner> maybe owned by a different user than what you're currently running as?
203 2010-09-22 21:14:51 <doublec> files are still rw owner only. I think the wallet.dat may be corrupt. I'll see if there are any tools to fix it. It's a bdb file, right?
204 2010-09-22 21:34:25 <Keefe> i think so, but i haven't tried parsing it