1 2010-10-07 00:05:18 <Kiba> I would like to write a historical fiction someday
  2 2010-10-07 00:05:22 <Kiba> The Planter Rebellion
  3 2010-10-07 00:41:42 <bitbot> 62
  4 2010-10-07 00:41:42 <Kiba> ;math calc 1000 * 0.062
  5 2010-10-07 00:43:07 <necrodearia> :math calc 1/0
  6 2010-10-07 00:43:08 <bitbot> 42
  7 2010-10-07 00:43:10 <Kiba> it seem that the price for bitcoins has risen a bit
  8 2010-10-07 00:44:43 <necrodearia> awwww, that's suu adorable
  9 2010-10-07 00:44:58 <necrodearia> Maybe it can raise a few more bits.  They're suuu kyuute
 10 2010-10-07 00:45:06 <Kiba> ;mtgox
 11 2010-10-07 00:45:07 <bitbot> Kiba: Mt. Gox: Last(0.0629) High(0.0635) Low(0.0612) BestSellPrice(0.0629) BestBuyPrice(0.063) Volume(33473)
 12 2010-10-07 01:49:32 <Diablo-D3> hey m0
 13 2010-10-07 01:49:35 <Diablo-D3> argh hes not here
 14 2010-10-07 01:54:09 <Diablo-D3> ooh!
 15 2010-10-07 01:54:18 <Diablo-D3> I am now at 450
 16 2010-10-07 02:43:36 <Keefe> wow, lots of buying action at mtgox today
 17 2010-10-07 02:44:06 <Keefe> 0.0635
 18 2010-10-07 02:51:01 <necrodearia> If anyone would like to say something anonymously to Bitcoin commuinity, you're welcome to do so through Bitbot.  e.g. /msg bitbot say #bitcoin-dev <msg>
 19 2010-10-07 02:51:22 <bitbot> Why did you capitalize my nick?
 20 2010-10-07 02:51:38 <bitbot> wut?
 21 2010-10-07 02:52:06 <bitbot> necrodearia you might want to set the config to not require user registration with the bot to use my say command
 22 2010-10-07 02:52:19 <necrodearia> mm, good idea
 23 2010-10-07 02:55:03 <necrodearia> I'll add commands to wiki page
 24 2010-10-07 02:55:04 <necrodearia> ;wiki
 25 2010-10-07 02:55:05 <bitbot> wiki is To see a list of aliases, factoids and how to use me (Hint: I want to be used!) please visit http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitbot
 26 2010-10-07 03:03:06 <Kiba> ;mtgox
 27 2010-10-07 03:03:07 <bitbot> Kiba: Mt. Gox: Last(0.0635) High(0.0635) Low(0.0612) BestSellPrice(0.0629) BestBuyPrice(0.0634) Volume(33662)
 28 2010-10-07 03:03:27 <Kiba> it seem that the price are moving slightly higher
 29 2010-10-07 03:24:27 <Keefe> anyone sell alot through BCM?
 30 2010-10-07 03:25:02 <Keefe> i mean, has anyone here sold more than 5 times through BCM?
 31 2010-10-07 03:25:49 <jgarzik> Keefe: yes
 32 2010-10-07 03:25:49 <Keefe> if so, did you ever have to wait more than a few days for a buyer to send usd?
 33 2010-10-07 03:26:02 <jgarzik> Keefe: yes, but very rarely
 34 2010-10-07 03:26:26 <jgarzik> Keefe: BCM email has been flaky, so it's possible the other party didn't get notified, too.
 35 2010-10-07 03:27:32 <Keefe> 7 trades (sells) total for me
 36 2010-10-07 03:27:48 <Keefe> 3 are still waiting for usd
 37 2010-10-07 03:28:02 <Keefe> 2 buyers. one bought twice
 38 2010-10-07 03:28:14 <Keefe> i've emailed both buyers direct
 39 2010-10-07 03:28:22 <Diablo-D3> so
 40 2010-10-07 03:28:36 <Diablo-D3> I now have 450+ coins.
 41 2010-10-07 03:28:37 <Diablo-D3> go me
 42 2010-10-07 03:28:45 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: woooo
 43 2010-10-07 03:29:45 <Keefe> jgarzik, ever had a buyer chargeback? has not happened to me
 44 2010-10-07 03:30:23 <jgarzik> Keefe: never, though a lot of my trading is LRUSD and PGAU, where chargebacks do not exist
 45 2010-10-07 03:30:32 <Keefe> ah
 46 2010-10-07 03:30:42 <Keefe> i'm only selling for PP
 47 2010-10-07 03:30:56 <jgarzik> Keefe: PPUSD is more expensive on BCM than MTGOX, so I do all my PPUSD on MTGOX.
 48 2010-10-07 03:31:37 <Keefe> selling for PP at BCM is usually more profitable, as long as they actually pay
 49 2010-10-07 03:32:00 <jgarzik> yea
 50 2010-10-07 03:32:04 <Keefe> today has been the opposite though. better prices at MTG
 51 2010-10-07 03:32:26 <jgarzik> it's been pretty consistent that the bid is lower and ask is higher on BCM
 52 2010-10-07 03:32:35 <Keefe> well, not if i take off the 2% fee. then it's about the same
 53 2010-10-07 03:33:22 <jgarzik> pretty impressive LRUSD volume according to http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
 54 2010-10-07 03:33:50 <Keefe> is it hard/expensive to get usd out of LR?
 55 2010-10-07 03:34:03 <Keefe> such as to a us bank, or to paypal?
 56 2010-10-07 03:34:44 <jgarzik> Keefe: very easy exchange on exchangezone.com, LRUSD->PPUSD
 57 2010-10-07 03:35:07 <jgarzik> PPUSD->LRUSD takes ~7-10 days, due to fraud checking-related delay
 58 2010-10-07 03:35:55 <Keefe> for me, my purpose is selling generated btc and getting the usd to paypal since i paid for the hardware with paypal
 59 2010-10-07 03:36:38 <jgarzik> Keefe: doing GPU mining?
 60 2010-10-07 03:36:43 <Keefe> yes
 61 2010-10-07 03:36:49 <Diablo-D3> jesus
 62 2010-10-07 03:36:53 <Diablo-D3> is everyone doing that now?
 63 2010-10-07 03:37:05 <jgarzik> Keefe: puddinpop, solar, m0mchil, or other?
 64 2010-10-07 03:37:09 <Keefe> still few i think
 65 2010-10-07 03:37:21 <Diablo-D3> m0's seems to be decent
 66 2010-10-07 03:37:31 <Keefe> my own code, inspired by solar's work
 67 2010-10-07 03:37:40 <Diablo-D3> keefe: try m0's
 68 2010-10-07 03:38:01 <Diablo-D3> art says my card would do 75 mhash on his shit
 69 2010-10-07 03:38:07 <Diablo-D3> and its doing 62 on m0's
 70 2010-10-07 03:38:20 <Diablo-D3> so m0's is "almost" optimized
 71 2010-10-07 03:38:22 <jgarzik> GPU mining will make other mining pointless
 72 2010-10-07 03:38:36 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: well, its all about mhash per watt
 73 2010-10-07 03:38:43 <Keefe> i'm about 10% less efficient than art's
 74 2010-10-07 03:38:49 <Diablo-D3> no one has written an optimized C7 miner yet
 75 2010-10-07 03:39:07 <lfm> Diablo-D3, I have one
 76 2010-10-07 03:39:30 <jgarzik> I thought some work had been posted, WRT C7?
 77 2010-10-07 03:39:33 <Diablo-D3> lfm: does it lock the memory page so you can rollback the state?
 78 2010-10-07 03:39:59 <lfm> um no
 79 2010-10-07 03:40:05 <Diablo-D3> then its not fully optimized
 80 2010-10-07 03:40:12 <Diablo-D3> C7s _can_ do sequential cracking optimally
 81 2010-10-07 03:40:17 <Diablo-D3> most people don't realize they can
 82 2010-10-07 03:40:22 <Diablo-D3> so they do the whole hash out every time
 83 2010-10-07 03:40:45 <Diablo-D3> lfm: what did you get on your C7?
 84 2010-10-07 03:40:54 <Diablo-D3> because *8 and thats what you really could be getting
 85 2010-10-07 03:41:25 <lfm> Diablo-D3, I was trying to do the first partial in software then the continuation and second hash with the c7 instn, couldnt get it to work and gave up
 86 2010-10-07 03:41:51 <Diablo-D3> heh
 87 2010-10-07 03:42:07 <Diablo-D3> most likely, radeon 6000s will beat everything into dust
 88 2010-10-07 03:42:09 <lfm> went back to doing full hashes
 89 2010-10-07 03:42:23 <Diablo-D3> lfm: well, you just lock the second? memory page
 90 2010-10-07 03:42:29 <Diablo-D3> I cant remember if its the first or second
 91 2010-10-07 03:42:37 <Diablo-D3> it wont overwrite the state, but do the hash correctly
 92 2010-10-07 03:42:54 <lfm> ya put the first patial on a memory boundry then read only the second paart?
 93 2010-10-07 03:43:14 <Diablo-D3> yeah something like that
 94 2010-10-07 03:43:34 <lfm> Its an idea I guess, not sure if its worth it
 95 2010-10-07 03:44:24 <Diablo-D3> its 8 times faster.
 96 2010-10-07 03:44:33 <Diablo-D3> its no different than doing it in a normal one
 97 2010-10-07 03:45:07 <lfm> 8 times?! Id think it would only be 33% faster
 98 2010-10-07 03:45:56 <Diablo-D3> if you do state saving correctly on a fully unoptimized sequential sha256 engine, its up to 8 times faster
 99 2010-10-07 03:49:03 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: a lot of money
100 2010-10-07 03:49:11 <Diablo-D3> other than that, not much
101 2010-10-07 03:49:29 <lfm> well afaik it just does 64 byte chunks. You can only save the state between chunks
102 2010-10-07 03:49:51 <Diablo-D3> lfm: yup
103 2010-10-07 03:50:01 <Diablo-D3> but I read on the interwebs that you can make c7 your bitch.
104 2010-10-07 03:50:05 <Diablo-D3> so, go do it
105 2010-10-07 03:50:13 <jgarzik> various e-exchanges offer them, so I'm thinking there's an el cheapo service out there that offers branded debit cards, refilled by your website, in exchange for a large percentage of the merchant fees.
106 2010-10-07 03:50:15 <lfm> so the partial only saves one chunk out of 3
107 2010-10-07 03:53:03 <Keefe> Diablo-D3, 450 btc generated by your gpu code? in how much time?
108 2010-10-07 03:53:11 <Diablo-D3> keefe: no no, 50
109 2010-10-07 03:53:15 <Diablo-D3> I already had the 400
110 2010-10-07 03:53:24 <Keefe> ah
111 2010-10-07 03:53:26 <Diablo-D3> the sad part is, Ive had those 400 since before /. :<
112 2010-10-07 03:53:37 <Keefe> worth much more now :)
113 2010-10-07 03:54:41 <Diablo-D3> speaking of which
114 2010-10-07 03:54:49 <Diablo-D3> how much IS 450 worth
115 2010-10-07 03:55:08 <lfm> ;math calc 450*0.063
116 2010-10-07 03:55:09 <bitbot> 28.35
117 2010-10-07 03:55:20 <Diablo-D3> what, dollars?
118 2010-10-07 03:55:36 <lfm> roughly ya us$
119 2010-10-07 03:55:41 <Diablo-D3> nice.
120 2010-10-07 03:56:47 <lfm> ;market
121 2010-10-07 03:56:48 <bitbot> lfm: Last(bcm:0.0635, mtgox:0.0635) High(bcm:0.0625, mtgox:0.0635) Low(bcm:0.0615, mtgox:0.0612) BestBuyPrice(bcm:0.068, mtgox:0.0633) Volume(bcm:0, mtgox:33662)
122 2010-10-07 03:57:16 <bitbot> 27.54
123 2010-10-07 03:57:16 <lfm> ;math calc 450*0.0612
124 2010-10-07 03:57:29 <lfm> low
125 2010-10-07 03:59:02 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJh_EUrEAZg
126 2010-10-07 03:59:04 <Diablo-D3> this
127 2010-10-07 03:59:08 <Diablo-D3> is epic
128 2010-10-07 03:59:50 <nanotube> ;bcsell 450btc
129 2010-10-07 03:59:52 <bitbot> nanotube: $0.06299 each for BTC138.5 ($8.724115) at mtg.  $0.06281 each for BTC311.5 ($19.565315) at mtg.  Total amount for BTC450 is $28.28943
130 2010-10-07 04:00:01 <nanotube> lfm: --^
131 2010-10-07 04:00:07 <Diablo-D3> oh nice
132 2010-10-07 04:00:40 <Diablo-D3> man
133 2010-10-07 04:00:42 <Diablo-D3> where the hell is m0
134 2010-10-07 04:03:16 <lfm> thats for 761.5BTC then
135 2010-10-07 04:03:37 <nanotube> ?
136 2010-10-07 04:03:39 <lfm> oh nm, I read wrong
137 2010-10-07 04:55:39 <necrodearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=133.msg15776#msg15776 - This doesn't seem correct.  How does GPL come into play when Bitcoin is under MIT license?
138 2010-10-07 04:59:18 <Diablo-D3> dongs.
139 2010-10-07 04:59:51 <Diablo-D3> also, how does using cuda from gpl actually violate this?
140 2010-10-07 05:00:21 <Diablo-D3> its technically a system library
141 2010-10-07 05:02:08 <ArtForz> bc is not gpl, so the issue is moot
142 2010-10-07 05:02:58 <ArtForz> otherwise the problem wouldnt be the cuda stuff, but distributing a modified build without source
143 2010-10-07 05:03:31 <Diablo-D3> yeah I agree
144 2010-10-07 05:03:35 <Diablo-D3> and its still a problem doing that
145 2010-10-07 05:03:43 <Diablo-D3> not because mit says no, but because you're a dick.
146 2010-10-07 05:05:52 <ArtForz> *shrug* if you don't want people distributing modified versions without releasing source, don't use a license that allows that?
147 2010-10-07 05:06:24 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but satoshi already screwed up
148 2010-10-07 05:06:27 <Diablo-D3> we cant go back and fix that
149 2010-10-07 05:06:32 <ArtForz> of course it'd be still trivial to circumvent for stuff like a bitcoin miner
150 2010-10-07 05:07:44 <ArtForz> use the same setup as m0mchils opencl miner and only release source for the modified client and not for the miner
151 2010-10-07 05:08:08 <Diablo-D3> yeah
152 2010-10-07 05:08:14 <Diablo-D3> and its technically not a violation of the gpl
153 2010-10-07 05:08:24 <ArtForz> yep
154 2010-10-07 05:08:33 <Diablo-D3> it WOULD be if the program required it
155 2010-10-07 05:08:35 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt
156 2010-10-07 05:08:43 <Diablo-D3> nor is it the only thing that can plug into getwork
157 2010-10-07 05:08:51 <ArtForz> yep
158 2010-10-07 05:11:58 <ArtForz> actually not even the "required part" part wouldnt cut it, as the miner is not a library but a completely seperate process
159 2010-10-07 05:12:18 <Diablo-D3> no, the FSF has gotten pissy about that too
160 2010-10-07 05:12:28 <Diablo-D3> using sockets to work around it doesnt fly with them
161 2010-10-07 05:13:12 <ArtForz> it sure as hell should
162 2010-10-07 05:14:01 <Diablo-D3> if the program depends on outside code that isnt part of the system thats closed source, in any way, is against the GPL
163 2010-10-07 05:14:09 <ArtForz> define "depends"
164 2010-10-07 05:14:11 <Diablo-D3> and by "depends", they mean the program cannot do it's intended function without it
165 2010-10-07 05:14:49 <Diablo-D3> so if the client couldnt mine, and only could mine with closed source, they'red be a problem.
166 2010-10-07 05:15:09 <ArtForz> yea, but that gets hairy fast
167 2010-10-07 05:15:28 <Diablo-D3> well, it doesnt trigger if you're wrapping somebody else's closed source
168 2010-10-07 05:15:39 <Diablo-D3> debian has a contrib repo for stuff like that
169 2010-10-07 05:15:50 <Diablo-D3> its open, yet isnt stand alone
170 2010-10-07 05:16:00 <Diablo-D3> you just cant be a dick and to it to your own code
171 2010-10-07 05:16:32 <ArtForz> of course even that would be easy to "circumvent"
172 2010-10-07 05:16:46 <Diablo-D3> the definition is wide enough to prevent abuse, but narrow enough to not prevent legitimate use
173 2010-10-07 05:17:11 <ArtForz> let's say in the miner example we remove the miner code
174 2010-10-07 05:17:42 <Diablo-D3> and make m0's miner closed source
175 2010-10-07 05:17:49 <Diablo-D3> then it could be a potential violation
176 2010-10-07 05:17:57 <ArtForz> then take the original miner code in the socket-communicating layer and relase that GPL
177 2010-10-07 05:18:12 <Diablo-D3> that'd be fine technically.
178 2010-10-07 05:18:22 <ArtForz> exactly
179 2010-10-07 05:18:24 <Diablo-D3> mit is ->gpl compatible
180 2010-10-07 05:18:44 <Diablo-D3> but you cant gpl bitcoin, remove the miner, and then make the miner closed source
181 2010-10-07 05:18:48 <Diablo-D3> thats a violation in the making
182 2010-10-07 05:20:09 <ArtForz> well, it's a interesting question
183 2010-10-07 05:24:13 <ArtForz> completely unrelated to bitcoin, but interesting
184 2010-10-07 05:25:49 <Diablo-D3> http://www.dudalibre.com/gnulinuxcounter?lang=en
185 2010-10-07 05:27:29 <ArtForz> pff, who cares
186 2010-10-07 05:27:46 <Diablo-D3> I do.
187 2010-10-07 05:28:58 <Keefe> ArtForz, are you sure fglrx-driver 10.7 supported your 5970?
188 2010-10-07 05:29:02 <ArtForz> yep
189 2010-10-07 05:29:12 <ArtForz> dual 5970s even
190 2010-10-07 05:29:16 <Keefe> odd. X says no supported devices
191 2010-10-07 05:29:23 <ArtForz> worked fine with all 4 GPUs
192 2010-10-07 05:29:25 <Keefe> had no problem with my 5770
193 2010-10-07 05:29:43 <ArtForz> did you recreate xorg.conf?
194 2010-10-07 05:30:00 <ArtForz> = correct PCI bus numbers in there
195 2010-10-07 05:30:06 <Keefe> i installed squeeze with the 5770 in. didn't change anything before swapping card
196 2010-10-07 05:30:11 <Keefe> same slot
197 2010-10-07 05:30:17 <ArtForz> 5970 has internal bridge
198 2010-10-07 05:30:24 <ArtForz> = new bus numbers
199 2010-10-07 05:30:36 <Diablo-D3> DUAL 5970s
200 2010-10-07 05:30:46 <ArtForz> yea
201 2010-10-07 05:30:54 <Keefe> can i just delete xorg.conf? or do i have to change something in there?
202 2010-10-07 05:30:55 <Diablo-D3> how does your box not melt
203 2010-10-07 05:31:04 <Diablo-D3> keefe: you need enough to write fglrx in
204 2010-10-07 05:31:38 <ArtForz> http://www.ebmpapst.com/en/products/compact-fans/axial-compact-fans/axial_compact_fans_detail.php?pID=54166
205 2010-10-07 05:32:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how many rpm is that
206 2010-10-07 05:32:52 <ArtForz> 6krpm
207 2010-10-07 05:33:00 <Diablo-D3> holy mother of god
208 2010-10-07 05:34:17 <ArtForz> 21.6W, 182cfm, 65dB
209 2010-10-07 05:35:54 <Keefe> i'm looking at lspci's output but don't know which item is the right one to point xorg.conf to
210 2010-10-07 05:36:09 <Keefe> this one?: 03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 689c
211 2010-10-07 05:36:19 <ArtForz> there should be 2
212 2010-10-07 05:36:28 <Keefe> only see one like that...
213 2010-10-07 05:36:31 <ArtForz> 1: VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 689c
214 2010-10-07 05:36:37 <ArtForz> 2: Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 689c
215 2010-10-07 05:36:42 <Keefe> ok, then 2
216 2010-10-07 05:36:52 <Keefe> thx. trying...
217 2010-10-07 05:37:03 <ArtForz> that's the primary and secondary GPUs, VGA one is primary I think
218 2010-10-07 05:37:46 <ArtForz> so xorg.conf BusID is "PCI:3:0:0" for the primary GPU
219 2010-10-07 05:39:12 <Keefe> graphics screen!
220 2010-10-07 05:39:38 <Keefe> i'm definitely going to send you some btc when i get this fully working :)
221 2010-10-07 05:40:08 <ArtForz> small hint for multiple GPUs, export DISPLAY=:0 as with :0.0 opencl only sees the first GPU
222 2010-10-07 05:40:38 <Keefe> ah
223 2010-10-07 05:40:49 <Keefe> but first i'm going to try to boot with both cards
224 2010-10-07 05:41:01 <ArtForz> should work fine
225 2010-10-07 05:41:03 <Keefe> last time it hung during startup
226 2010-10-07 05:41:18 <ArtForz> really sucks that fglrx doesn't support more than 4 GPUs
227 2010-10-07 05:42:48 <ArtForz> 3x or 4x 5970 would be just f*in awesome
228 2010-10-07 05:42:48 <lfm> and the 1800 watt power supply to run em?
229 2010-10-07 05:43:14 <ArtForz> more like 1600W
230 2010-10-07 05:45:41 <ArtForz> and the answer would be "dual PSUs"
231 2010-10-07 05:45:59 <ArtForz> same way you run quad OCed 480GTXs :P
232 2010-10-07 05:46:19 <lfm> Ill call my electrician
233 2010-10-07 05:47:22 <Keefe> i read a bunch about dual psu's. seems like half say it's fine and half say it will crossfeed and blow
234 2010-10-07 05:47:49 <Keefe> not knowing who's right, i figured i'd avoid it
235 2010-10-07 05:47:50 <jgarzik> http://www.amazon.com/Quadro-Plex-Model-5600-G-sync/dp/B001A3ATKW/
236 2010-10-07 05:48:14 <lfm> well ya if you crossfeed em, if you connect correctly you can do it
237 2010-10-07 05:48:31 <ArtForz> yep
238 2010-10-07 05:48:55 <jgarzik> http://cgi.ebay.com/NVIDIA-Quadro-Plex-1000-Model-lV-fx-5600-3-GB-Buffer-/170548988601?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item27b5830ab9
239 2010-10-07 05:48:58 <jgarzik> current bid: $2000
240 2010-10-07 05:49:26 <Keefe> don't the graphics cards have some connection between the 12V from the separate connectors and the system bus or each other?
241 2010-10-07 05:49:34 <ArtForz> usually, no
242 2010-10-07 05:49:48 <Keefe> but some might, so it's risky?
243 2010-10-07 05:49:53 <ArtForz> yep
244 2010-10-07 05:50:31 <ArtForz> well, even worst case nothing should blow up
245 2010-10-07 05:50:44 <Diablo-D3> [03:34:17] <ArtForz> 21.6W, 182cfm, 65dB
246 2010-10-07 05:50:45 <Diablo-D3> vs
247 2010-10-07 05:50:54 <Keefe> both cards in. booted fine!
248 2010-10-07 05:51:23 <Diablo-D3> 64cfm 28dB fans I have
249 2010-10-07 05:51:30 <Diablo-D3> http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/002/sflex_detail.html
250 2010-10-07 05:51:47 <Diablo-D3> 5 of the 1600rpm ones
251 2010-10-07 05:51:58 <Diablo-D3> undervolted to 5v unless its the summer
252 2010-10-07 05:52:02 <ArtForz> well, I had a scythe ultra kaze 3000 in there before
253 2010-10-07 05:52:15 <Diablo-D3> the box with all the fans down is dead silent
254 2010-10-07 05:52:30 <ArtForz> with it at 100% and the card fans at 60% I had ~77???C core temp
255 2010-10-07 05:53:12 <Diablo-D3> heh, my card doesnt have a fan anymore
256 2010-10-07 05:53:27 <Diablo-D3> replaced it with a third party heatsink
257 2010-10-07 05:53:34 <ArtForz> with the papst fan at 100% and the card fans at 0%, ~75???C core temp
258 2010-10-07 05:53:40 <Diablo-D3> heh
259 2010-10-07 05:53:51 <Diablo-D3> I get like 45c with the arrangement I have
260 2010-10-07 05:54:01 <Diablo-D3> its one of those heatsinks that flips over the card
261 2010-10-07 05:54:03 <lfm> different cards
262 2010-10-07 05:54:14 <Diablo-D3> so its shoved into the cpu heatsink
263 2010-10-07 05:54:19 <Diablo-D3> and the cpu fan draws air through both
264 2010-10-07 05:54:29 <ArtForz> a single OCed 5970 is ~350W
265 2010-10-07 05:54:33 <Diablo-D3> the 4850 goes up to 45c, the c2d e8500 goes up to 65c max
266 2010-10-07 05:54:36 <Diablo-D3> and its all dead silent
267 2010-10-07 05:55:17 <ArtForz> 4850 was something like 110W
268 2010-10-07 05:56:12 <ArtForz> thats about the same as a 5770, and with a decent 3rd party cooler you can run those "fanless"
269 2010-10-07 05:56:20 <lfm> so whats your ghash/kwh?
270 2010-10-07 05:56:21 <Diablo-D3> doh
271 2010-10-07 05:56:32 <ArtForz> lfm: what kinda unit is that?
272 2010-10-07 05:56:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
273 2010-10-07 05:56:41 <Diablo-D3> my cpu is at 43c
274 2010-10-07 05:56:46 <Diablo-D3> no clue what the gpu is at now
275 2010-10-07 05:56:53 <Diablo-D3> since I cant read that in linux yet
276 2010-10-07 05:57:00 <Diablo-D3> but my cpu and gpu have been max for hours
277 2010-10-07 05:57:02 <ArtForz> Mhash/Ws = Mhash/J makes more sense
278 2010-10-07 05:57:04 <Diablo-D3> and shits still cool
279 2010-10-07 05:57:12 <Diablo-D3> kwh makes sense because thats what we pay for
280 2010-10-07 05:57:38 <Diablo-D3> wait, Ws = wattsecond?
281 2010-10-07 05:57:40 <ArtForz> let's see...
282 2010-10-07 05:57:42 <ArtForz> yep
283 2010-10-07 05:57:45 <Diablo-D3> same shit then
284 2010-10-07 05:57:48 <lfm> well my power is billed by the kwh so I find it conveinient
285 2010-10-07 05:57:50 <Diablo-D3> kwh = kilowatt hour
286 2010-10-07 05:58:10 <Diablo-D3> so xhash per kwh seems to be the best scale
287 2010-10-07 05:58:17 <ArtForz> hrrrm
288 2010-10-07 05:58:37 <ArtForz> Ghash/Wh should be == Mhash/Ws * 3.6, right ?
289 2010-10-07 05:58:47 <lfm> ArtForz, yes I think so
290 2010-10-07 05:59:08 <ArtForz> then my dual 5970 is ~ 5.94 at the plug
291 2010-10-07 05:59:30 <ArtForz> quad 5770 ~4.66
292 2010-10-07 05:59:32 <lfm> 3.6 khas/ws
293 2010-10-07 05:59:33 <Diablo-D3> * 1000 / 60
294 2010-10-07 05:59:41 <Diablo-D3> er no
295 2010-10-07 05:59:45 <Diablo-D3> /1000 * 60
296 2010-10-07 05:59:55 <Diablo-D3> thats ghash Wm
297 2010-10-07 05:59:58 <Diablo-D3> so another * 60
298 2010-10-07 06:00:29 <Diablo-D3> so yeah *3.6
299 2010-10-07 06:00:30 <ArtForz> dual 5870 5.54
300 2010-10-07 06:00:44 <lfm> I have 3.6 khash/ws -> ghash/kwh
301 2010-10-07 06:01:00 <Diablo-D3> lfm: no
302 2010-10-07 06:01:03 <Diablo-D3> wh is  * 3.6
303 2010-10-07 06:01:09 <Diablo-D3> you need to * 3.6/1000 to get kwh
304 2010-10-07 06:01:23 <Diablo-D3> kilowatt is 1000 watts
305 2010-10-07 06:01:38 <lfm> ghash is 10^6kahash
306 2010-10-07 06:01:39 <ArtForz> well, Gh/Wh == Th/kWh
307 2010-10-07 06:02:12 <Diablo-D3> lfm: mhash/ws -> ghash/ws is /1000, -> ghash/wh is * 60 * 60, -> ghash/kwh is /1000
308 2010-10-07 06:02:22 <Diablo-D3> so * 0.0036
309 2010-10-07 06:02:28 <ArtForz> errr... no
310 2010-10-07 06:02:49 <lfm> 3.6 khash/ws -> 1 ghash/kwh Im pretty sure
311 2010-10-07 06:02:57 <Diablo-D3> lfm: nope.
312 2010-10-07 06:03:01 <ArtForz> sounds about right
313 2010-10-07 06:03:08 <ArtForz> no... the other way around
314 2010-10-07 06:03:14 <Diablo-D3> khash to mhash is /1000, mhash to ghash is /1000
315 2010-10-07 06:04:02 <ArtForz> 1 Mhash/Ws = 3600 Mhash/Wh = 3600000 Mhash/kWh
316 2010-10-07 06:04:03 <Diablo-D3> ghash/ws to ghash/wh is *60*60
317 2010-10-07 06:04:05 <lfm> ws to wh is /3600 and wh to kwh is /1000
318 2010-10-07 06:04:21 <Diablo-D3> lfm: no
319 2010-10-07 06:04:24 <Diablo-D3> its *3600
320 2010-10-07 06:04:47 <Diablo-D3> oh, and it should be *1000 too
321 2010-10-07 06:04:55 <lfm> ya when it per ws to per wh its * 3600
322 2010-10-07 06:05:16 <lfm> and per wh to per kwh is *1000
323 2010-10-07 06:05:36 <ArtForz> and 3600000 Mh/kWh == 3600 Gh/kWh
324 2010-10-07 06:05:53 <lfm> khash to ghash is /1000000
325 2010-10-07 06:06:03 <ArtForz> Mh
326 2010-10-07 06:06:35 <ArtForz> and yes, khash to ghash is /1000000
327 2010-10-07 06:06:46 <ArtForz> so from Mh/Ws to Gh/kWh it's simply * 3600
328 2010-10-07 06:06:51 <lfm> ok mhash/ws to ghash/kwh is *3600
329 2010-10-07 06:06:54 <Diablo-D3> aaargh
330 2010-10-07 06:06:55 <Diablo-D3> so wait
331 2010-10-07 06:07:07 <Diablo-D3> khash to ghash is /1000/1000
332 2010-10-07 06:07:16 <Diablo-D3> ws to kwh is *3600*1000
333 2010-10-07 06:07:34 <ArtForz> yes
334 2010-10-07 06:07:45 <Diablo-D3> so kh/ws to gh/kwh is * 3.6
335 2010-10-07 06:08:00 <ArtForz> erm... no?
336 2010-10-07 06:08:01 <lfm> so 3.6 khash/ws = 1 ghash/kwh
337 2010-10-07 06:08:09 <Diablo-D3> lfm: exactly
338 2010-10-07 06:08:21 <ArtForz> other way around
339 2010-10-07 06:08:32 <Diablo-D3> 1/1000/1000*3600*1000 = 3.6
340 2010-10-07 06:09:06 <Diablo-D3> okay so, kh/ws to gh/kwh is / 3.6
341 2010-10-07 06:09:26 <ArtForz> 1 kHash/Ws = 3600 kHash/Wh = 3600000 kHash/kWh = 3.6Ghash/Wh
342 2010-10-07 06:09:28 <ArtForz> err
343 2010-10-07 06:09:37 <ArtForz> make that last kWh
344 2010-10-07 06:09:50 <Diablo-D3> so it IS * 3.6
345 2010-10-07 06:09:54 <ArtForz> yep
346 2010-10-07 06:10:01 <Diablo-D3> I was right the first time damnit
347 2010-10-07 06:10:06 <lfm> ok 1 khash/ws = 3.6 ghash/kwh
348 2010-10-07 06:10:13 <ArtForz> for kH/Ws to Gh/kWh
349 2010-10-07 06:10:28 <ArtForz> so....
350 2010-10-07 06:10:35 <Diablo-D3> okay so... Im doing....
351 2010-10-07 06:11:07 <Diablo-D3> 219600 ghash/kwh
352 2010-10-07 06:11:17 <ArtForz> sounds wrong
353 2010-10-07 06:11:39 <lfm> 1000 * 1000 khash/ws = 3600 * 1000 ghash/kwh
354 2010-10-07 06:11:49 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, I have to calculate khash/ws
355 2010-10-07 06:11:59 <Diablo-D3> 4850 uses 110 watts, so 61000/110
356 2010-10-07 06:12:13 <Diablo-D3> 1996 ghash/kwh
357 2010-10-07 06:13:02 <lfm> I have 200 ghash/kwh for a phenomII full system (not just the cpu)
358 2010-10-07 06:13:23 <Diablo-D3> okay, I do 61000 khash/s
359 2010-10-07 06:13:27 <ArtForz> quad 5770: 4662, dual 5870: 5540, dual 5970: 5918 ghash/kwh
360 2010-10-07 06:13:27 <Diablo-D3> its 110 watts
361 2010-10-07 06:13:30 <Diablo-D3> so over a second
362 2010-10-07 06:13:33 <Diablo-D3> I use 110 ws
363 2010-10-07 06:13:36 <ArtForz> and thats at the plug
364 2010-10-07 06:13:53 <Diablo-D3> so its 61000 khash/110 ws, or 554 khash/ws
365 2010-10-07 06:13:56 <Keefe> mine is about 4700 ghash/kwh
366 2010-10-07 06:14:03 <Diablo-D3> thus, 1996 ghash/kwh
367 2010-10-07 06:14:17 <Diablo-D3> thats pretty bad
368 2010-10-07 06:14:17 <lfm> ;math calc 61000*/110*3.6
369 2010-10-07 06:14:22 <Keefe> 5770 + half-5970
370 2010-10-07 06:14:25 <lfm> ;math calc 61000/110*3.6
371 2010-10-07 06:14:26 <bitbot> 1996.36363636
372 2010-10-07 06:14:28 <ArtForz> 4xxx series sucks
373 2010-10-07 06:14:36 <Diablo-D3> well also
374 2010-10-07 06:14:48 <Diablo-D3> I need to normalize for ArtMiner
375 2010-10-07 06:14:49 <Diablo-D3> so
376 2010-10-07 06:15:05 <Diablo-D3> ;math calc 61000/110*3.6/61*75
377 2010-10-07 06:15:06 <bitbot> 2454.54545455
378 2010-10-07 06:15:18 <Diablo-D3> ye gods, its still less than half of a 5000 series
379 2010-10-07 06:15:43 <ArtForz> well, I got 0.60 Mh/Ws for a 4870
380 2010-10-07 06:16:25 <ArtForz> so about 2160 Gh/kWh
381 2010-10-07 06:16:25 <Diablo-D3> so... 600Kh/Ws?
382 2010-10-07 06:16:28 <necrodearia> humm, who is faster
383 2010-10-07 06:16:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: huh, really?
384 2010-10-07 06:16:41 <ArtForz> yup
385 2010-10-07 06:16:41 <gribble> 46656
386 2010-10-07 06:16:41 <necrodearia> ;;math calc 6**6
387 2010-10-07 06:16:42 <bitbot> 46656
388 2010-10-07 06:16:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: then your estimate was wrong
389 2010-10-07 06:16:49 <necrodearia> ;math calc 6**6
390 2010-10-07 06:16:50 <bitbot> 46656
391 2010-10-07 06:16:51 <gribble> 46656
392 2010-10-07 06:16:51 <necrodearia> ;;math calc 6**6
393 2010-10-07 06:16:52 <necrodearia> doh!
394 2010-10-07 06:16:59 <Diablo-D3> m0's miner is very optimized
395 2010-10-07 06:17:05 <lfm> necrodearia, were trying to compare hash per power draw
396 2010-10-07 06:17:08 <ArtForz> ROFL
397 2010-10-07 06:17:13 <necrodearia> hehe, sorry ^_^
398 2010-10-07 06:17:27 <jgarzik> I'm bidding 10000 BTC @ 0.06 LRUSD, in case anybody wants to sell BTC while BCM is closed.
399 2010-10-07 06:17:28 <Diablo-D3> 1996 is very close to 2160
400 2010-10-07 06:17:35 <Diablo-D3> and 4850 vs 4870 would be close
401 2010-10-07 06:17:36 <ArtForz> for a 4850 my code should get ~2450
402 2010-10-07 06:17:45 <Keefe> Diablo-D3, your 1996 figure only includes the gpu, right, not the rest of the system nor psu waste?
403 2010-10-07 06:17:53 <Diablo-D3> keefe: yes correct
404 2010-10-07 06:18:18 <Diablo-D3> a measurement like that would largely be worthless
405 2010-10-07 06:18:20 <ArtForz> well, my numbers are at the wall, including the rest of the system
406 2010-10-07 06:18:23 <Diablo-D3> since I have, for example, 6 drives and 4 dimms
407 2010-10-07 06:18:40 <Diablo-D3> I dont have a typical mining only box.
408 2010-10-07 06:18:45 <Diablo-D3> or a typical any sort of box, really
409 2010-10-07 06:19:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well wait, wtf?
410 2010-10-07 06:19:13 <Diablo-D3> [04:15:43] <ArtForz> well, I got 0.60 Mh/Ws for a 4870
411 2010-10-07 06:19:46 <Diablo-D3> that'd be about 66mhash on a 4850
412 2010-10-07 06:19:51 <Diablo-D3> I get 62.
413 2010-10-07 06:19:54 <Diablo-D3> thats really close
414 2010-10-07 06:20:01 <ArtForz> 75
415 2010-10-07 06:20:18 <ArtForz> and ~90 on a 4870
416 2010-10-07 06:20:26 <Diablo-D3> meh
417 2010-10-07 06:20:31 <Diablo-D3> look at m0's newest miner
418 2010-10-07 06:20:38 <Diablo-D3> at least give him a hint on what to improve
419 2010-10-07 06:21:10 <ArtForz> duh, the kernel
420 2010-10-07 06:21:23 <Diablo-D3> well duh
421 2010-10-07 06:23:44 <ArtForz> main problems: doing only one nonce per thread and checking if hash < target in the kernel
422 2010-10-07 06:24:14 <Diablo-D3> I told him to take the if statement out
423 2010-10-07 06:24:23 <Diablo-D3> but he said it wouldnt matter
424 2010-10-07 06:24:27 <Diablo-D3> and I know hes wrong on it
425 2010-10-07 06:24:38 <Diablo-D3> its wasted fucking registers
426 2010-10-07 06:24:44 <ArtForz> just check if hash.H == 0 and check against the real target on the host
427 2010-10-07 06:24:57 <Diablo-D3> yeah, he can push all the answers back
428 2010-10-07 06:25:16 <ArtForz> with H == 0 you're only doing the check for 1/(2**32) of nonces
429 2010-10-07 06:25:31 <ArtForz> I mean, the check against real target on the host
430 2010-10-07 06:25:52 <lfm> ya its what the bitcoin software and -4way has always done
431 2010-10-07 06:26:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
432 2010-10-07 06:26:18 <Diablo-D3> I'd push back ALL the answers
433 2010-10-07 06:26:26 <Diablo-D3> just to eliminate the if
434 2010-10-07 06:26:41 <ArtForz> too much data transfer for my taste
435 2010-10-07 06:27:06 <Diablo-D3> I should try rewriting the kernel
436 2010-10-07 06:27:13 <Diablo-D3> but I have no test hardness
437 2010-10-07 06:27:16 <Diablo-D3> er, harness
438 2010-10-07 06:27:17 <ArtForz> I'm returning 1 bit per 1024 nonces
439 2010-10-07 06:27:47 <ArtForz> and the bit is a simple "one of these has H==0" flag
440 2010-10-07 06:28:41 <Diablo-D3> its not much data to push back
441 2010-10-07 06:28:53 <ArtForz> 32 bits per nonce
442 2010-10-07 06:29:06 <Diablo-D3> it'd be better if the kernel ran multiple
443 2010-10-07 06:29:14 <Diablo-D3> so you'd just push back like a 64kb buffer
444 2010-10-07 06:30:01 <lfm> the whole header is just 80 bytes
445 2010-10-07 06:30:04 <ArtForz> lets see
446 2010-10-07 06:30:38 <ArtForz> so I get this right, you want to return H of each hash?
447 2010-10-07 06:30:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: just to avoid the if
448 2010-10-07 06:30:56 <Diablo-D3> no branch logic at all in the kernel
449 2010-10-07 06:31:00 <ArtForz> at 535Mh/s (stock 5970) that'd be 2GB/s
450 2010-10-07 06:31:11 <Diablo-D3> feh.
451 2010-10-07 06:31:50 <Diablo-D3> well, I COULD do it in the kernel if he didnt screw it up
452 2010-10-07 06:32:00 <Diablo-D3> hes checking every single hash
453 2010-10-07 06:32:58 <ArtForz> well, so am I (checking for H==0)
454 2010-10-07 06:33:50 <Diablo-D3> wait, so is he
455 2010-10-07 06:34:02 <Diablo-D3> woah, he changed that whole section
456 2010-10-07 06:34:46 <Diablo-D3> read his newest code from git
457 2010-10-07 06:34:49 <Diablo-D3> I have no clue what hes doing now
458 2010-10-07 06:35:07 <lfm> check every second hash actualyy huh?
459 2010-10-07 06:35:25 <Diablo-D3> lfm: I hash is sha256(sha256())
460 2010-10-07 06:35:33 <lfm> ok
461 2010-10-07 06:36:59 <ArtForz> his new code looks pretty similar to my old kernel
462 2010-10-07 06:38:07 <ArtForz> should be pretty good
463 2010-10-07 06:38:22 <Diablo-D3> well thats whats getting 62 max on mine
464 2010-10-07 06:38:43 <lfm> ArtForz, do you use the same gethash rpc call?
465 2010-10-07 06:38:53 <ArtForz> nope
466 2010-10-07 06:39:09 <Diablo-D3> you mean getwork
467 2010-10-07 06:39:14 <lfm> ya
468 2010-10-07 06:39:17 <ArtForz> I replaced the miner with a TCP server in my client
469 2010-10-07 06:40:21 <lfm> ArtForz, so you use a raw tcp, not rpc
470 2010-10-07 06:40:26 <ArtForz> yep
471 2010-10-07 06:43:00 <ArtForz> miners connect to it, server sends 00 (80 byte data) = start hashing new block, 01 (4 byte data) = update nTime, miners send 00/01 with no data = ACK to 00/01 and 02 (80 byte data) = found block with hash <= target
472 2010-10-07 06:44:28 <ArtForz> it's a bit convoluted, but it allows me to add transactions pretty much for free
473 2010-10-07 06:58:04 <Diablo-D3> man
474 2010-10-07 06:58:11 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how well the 6000 series wil ldo
475 2010-10-07 07:19:20 <ArtForz> Barts XT should be about 10% faster than a 5850 and have Mh/Ws comparable to 5970
476 2010-10-07 07:20:19 <Keefe> not very exciting, unless i'm missing something
477 2010-10-07 07:20:22 <ArtForz> assuming the rumored 1280SP @ 900MHz and 146W TDP
478 2010-10-07 07:21:04 <Diablo-D3> keefe: cheaper per mh, less watt usage per mh
479 2010-10-07 07:21:15 <ArtForz> yep
480 2010-10-07 07:21:16 <Diablo-D3> so Im thinking a 15% overall improvement here
481 2010-10-07 07:21:40 <ArtForz> sounds about right
482 2010-10-07 07:22:08 <ArtForz> which isn't too shabby considering it's on the same process as 5xxx
483 2010-10-07 07:22:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: give me one of your 5870s when you upgrade :<
484 2010-10-07 07:23:15 <ArtForz> btw, 5870 is pretty much a waste of money
485 2010-10-07 07:23:33 <Diablo-D3> but I have a 4850, take pity on me :<
486 2010-10-07 07:23:57 <ArtForz> doesn't OC much better than a 5970, worse Mh/$ and Mh/W
487 2010-10-07 07:24:05 <UukGoblin> how will my geforce 8800GT do?
488 2010-10-07 07:24:22 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: it'll fail
489 2010-10-07 07:24:30 <Diablo-D3> quite badly
490 2010-10-07 07:24:42 <Diablo-D3> the upside is it can actually run it
491 2010-10-07 07:25:27 <UukGoblin> 'actually run' is a polar opposite of 'fail quite badly'
492 2010-10-07 07:25:52 <ArtForz> theoretical peak should be ~25Mh/s
493 2010-10-07 07:26:16 <UukGoblin> that's damn good
494 2010-10-07 07:26:56 <UukGoblin> compared to 1Mh/s that the CPU can do
495 2010-10-07 07:27:14 <ArtForz> well, considering a 5770 does 6x that using about 1.2x the power...
496 2010-10-07 07:27:27 <Diablo-D3> ergo, the fail quite badly.
497 2010-10-07 07:27:34 <ArtForz> errr.. same power
498 2010-10-07 07:27:38 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: you can get a 5770 cheaply
499 2010-10-07 07:27:40 <UukGoblin> :-]
500 2010-10-07 07:27:55 <Diablo-D3> or the 6770 really
501 2010-10-07 07:28:24 <UukGoblin> makes sense
502 2010-10-07 07:28:36 <UukGoblin> unless you already have the hardware and don't need to pay for power
503 2010-10-07 07:28:47 <ArtForz> my guess is the 6770 will be ~$200 initially
504 2010-10-07 07:28:54 <Diablo-D3> well, even a 6670
505 2010-10-07 07:29:01 <Diablo-D3> which will be a 5770 performance wise
506 2010-10-07 07:29:04 <Diablo-D3> but cheaper and less power
507 2010-10-07 07:29:19 <ArtForz> isn't 6670 relase sometimes in january ?
508 2010-10-07 07:29:42 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but we're in oct now
509 2010-10-07 07:29:47 <Diablo-D3> its not THAT far away
510 2010-10-07 07:29:58 <Diablo-D3> besides, UukGoblin has to spend his christmas money on something
511 2010-10-07 07:30:02 <UukGoblin> lol
512 2010-10-07 07:31:22 <ArtForz> I somehow don't think barts xt will release for >$300
513 2010-10-07 07:33:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah but imagine the 6970 x2
514 2010-10-07 07:35:16 <ArtForz> yeah, about 20% faster than 5970
515 2010-10-07 07:35:33 <Diablo-D3> well, the way you cram slots, it'd be somewhat worth it
516 2010-10-07 07:36:13 <ArtForz> well, it'll depend on its power usage
517 2010-10-07 07:36:48 <Diablo-D3> probably in the same ballpark as the 5970, but less
518 2010-10-07 07:37:53 <ArtForz> not to mention used 5970s should drop quite a bit in price
519 2010-10-07 07:39:08 <Keefe> :o
520 2010-10-07 07:39:17 <Keefe> i best sell mine before then
521 2010-10-07 08:10:09 <Keefe> ArtForz, how hard would it be to compile an opencl kernel with sdk 2.2 and run it with sdk 2.1?
522 2010-10-07 08:10:29 <ArtForz> hard, considering 2.1 doesn't support loading of binary kernels
523 2010-10-07 08:10:38 <Keefe> 2.1 doesn't like my kernel. it runs ~30% slower, like 2.1 did for me on windows
524 2010-10-07 08:11:00 <ArtForz> thats pretty weird
525 2010-10-07 08:11:13 <Keefe> i'm guessing 2.1 is lousy at optimizing my particular code
526 2010-10-07 08:11:40 <ArtForz> possible, have you checked the shader ASM 2.1 and 2.2 generate ?
527 2010-10-07 08:12:04 <Keefe> that's my next step, but i need sleep
528 2010-10-07 08:12:28 <Keefe> at least i've gotten as far as seeing it run on all 3 gpus individually
529 2010-10-07 08:12:54 <Keefe> gonna make sure it runs on all 3 together...
530 2010-10-07 08:12:55 <ArtForz> I guess you could drop OCL and use CAL to run your shader directly
531 2010-10-07 08:13:32 <Diablo-D3> keefe: er wait
532 2010-10-07 08:13:37 <Diablo-D3> why would you compile a kernel on 2.2?
533 2010-10-07 08:13:56 <Keefe> cause 2.2 makes my kernel run pretty efficiently
534 2010-10-07 08:14:05 <Diablo-D3> let me rephrase
535 2010-10-07 08:14:09 <Diablo-D3> why are you compiling it
536 2010-10-07 08:14:22 <Diablo-D3> instead of compiling it everytime you start your miner up
537 2010-10-07 08:14:30 <Keefe> that's what i mean
538 2010-10-07 08:14:47 <Diablo-D3> you'd compile it on 2.1 and run it on 2.1
539 2010-10-07 08:15:02 <Keefe> but i was asking about compiling it once in advance with 2.2 then using the compiled kernel with 2.1
540 2010-10-07 08:15:10 <Diablo-D3> you're not supposed to do that
541 2010-10-07 08:15:15 <Diablo-D3> it can lead to shit quickly
542 2010-10-07 08:15:19 <Keefe> so i could get the optimization of 2.2 but the multi-gpu support of 2.1
543 2010-10-07 08:15:22 <ArtForz> his ocl miner is 30% slower using 2.1, the Q is, is it because the 2.1 compiler doesn't like his code or is it the ocl runtime
544 2010-10-07 08:15:28 <Diablo-D3> 2.2 has multigpu support, though
545 2010-10-07 08:15:39 <ArtForz> yeah, and it happily hogs the CPU
546 2010-10-07 08:15:48 <Diablo-D3> depends how you define hogs.
547 2010-10-07 08:15:56 <ArtForz> 100% CPU usage on 4 cores with dual 5970s and 2.2
548 2010-10-07 08:15:59 <Keefe> hope they fix that in 2.3
549 2010-10-07 08:16:02 <Diablo-D3> huh weird
550 2010-10-07 08:16:25 <Keefe> or whatever version comes next
551 2010-10-07 08:16:33 <Diablo-D3> well the next version MIGHT not exist
552 2010-10-07 08:16:49 <Diablo-D3> they're supposed to be shipping the libs with cat 10.10
553 2010-10-07 08:16:53 <ArtForz> same code with 2.1 uses ~1% cpu
554 2010-10-07 08:17:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hrm
555 2010-10-07 08:17:17 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if thats why the py miner is using like 50% of my cpu time
556 2010-10-07 08:17:53 <ArtForz> my guess is they've changed a sleeping wait to a spinwait somewhere in the OCL runtime between 2.1 and 2.2
557 2010-10-07 08:25:08 <Keefe> all 3 gpu's now mining at stock clocks. and my 550W psu hasn't shut off :)
558 2010-10-07 08:25:58 <Keefe> only 430Mhps though, cause of the efficiency loss
559 2010-10-07 08:26:44 <Diablo-D3> only.
560 2010-10-07 08:27:09 <Keefe> target is 720
561 2010-10-07 08:27:26 <Keefe> tomorrow i'll try to resolve the 2.1 code issue, then play with the clocks and
562 2010-10-07 08:27:45 <Keefe> s/and//
563 2010-10-07 08:29:22 <Keefe> hey, how else do you expect me to recoup my $950 investment
564 2010-10-07 08:29:42 <Diablo-D3> by not making one in the first place, you rich bastard
565 2010-10-07 08:29:58 <Keefe> if i was rich, i wouldn't bother with this stuff :)
566 2010-10-07 08:30:14 <Diablo-D3> well if you were poor like me, you'd be spending it on food instead of shit that isnt food.
567 2010-10-07 08:30:55 <Keefe> just cause i am able to invest this, doesn't mean losing it won't hurt
568 2010-10-07 08:31:10 <Diablo-D3> then you're still not poor
569 2010-10-07 08:31:15 <Diablo-D3> poor people cant invest it in the first place
570 2010-10-07 08:31:46 <Keefe> anyway. i'm out. thanks ArtForz for all the help
571 2010-10-07 13:48:03 <Keefe> ;estimate
572 2010-10-07 13:48:05 <bitbot> Keefe: LastDiff(8d 19:49:33 ago)  ExpBlocks(1270)  ActualBlocks(1274)  TrgNewDiffDate(2010/10/12 19:58:28 GMT)  EstNewDiffDate(2010/10/12 19:10:16 GMT)  EstNewDiff(1322.8237478)
573 2010-10-07 15:29:31 <nightrow> hi, still available to test any windows GPU build, don't hesitate to ask me
574 2010-10-07 15:40:04 <Diablo-D3> hey m0
575 2010-10-07 15:40:08 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit he left again
576 2010-10-07 16:28:30 <kermit> did he leave contact info?
577 2010-10-07 17:33:23 <Diablo-D3> kermit: no
578 2010-10-07 20:08:24 <grondilu> Hi.  What would happen if I encrypt and backup my wallet on a distant machine, erase my local copy, and restart the bitcoin program using a brand new .bitcoin directory ?
579 2010-10-07 20:08:59 <grondilu> Shall I still be able to retrieve my bitcoins later ?
580 2010-10-07 20:15:04 <kencausey> grondilu: You mean after putting your wallet back in place?
581 2010-10-07 20:15:12 <grondilu> yes
582 2010-10-07 20:15:30 <kencausey> Yes, I think that should be fine, the wallet.dat is the only thing you must backup
583 2010-10-07 20:15:51 <kencausey> everything else can be redownloaded, except the debug.log
584 2010-10-07 20:18:30 <grondilu> So if, for instance, cops are threatening me to steal my money, I can buy as many bitcoins I can, encrypt the wallet.dat, upload it on some secret distant machine,  secure-rm my local wallet.dat, and replace it with an empty one.  Then cops are screwed, right ?  :-)
585 2010-10-07 20:20:39 <KingGurke> these are all hypotheticals
586 2010-10-07 20:20:40 <KingGurke> right?
587 2010-10-07 20:20:54 <grondilu> sure.  all hypotheticals.
588 2010-10-07 20:21:18 <kencausey> I suggest you read about bitcoin transactions, the coins are not in your wallet, per se
589 2010-10-07 20:22:20 <grondilu> it's a way of speaking.  How would you say it ?
590 2010-10-07 20:22:50 <grondilu> the wallet.dat has only some private keys, doesn't it ?
591 2010-10-07 20:42:06 <nanotube> grondilu: yes that should be workable - unless they manage to beat the location/keys to your wallet.dat....
592 2010-10-07 20:42:16 <nanotube> beat out of you
593 2010-10-07 20:42:40 <grondilu> indeed
594 2010-10-07 20:52:48 <dMacRohar> so is bitcoin gaining in value or is it just the dollar hyperinflating away? ;)
595 2010-10-07 20:53:16 <ArtForz> more like the latter
596 2010-10-07 20:55:02 <grondilu> funny I'm just watching latest Peter Schiff's VLOG on http://www.youtube.com/user/SchiffReport.  I wonder what he thinks about bitcoins.
597 2010-10-07 21:08:24 <grondilu> I got this when I try to connect to Mt Gox :  " unable to get local issuer certificate: accept? (y/n) "   Should I worry ?
598 2010-10-07 21:09:22 <doublec> they use a self signed cert I think
599 2010-10-07 21:19:18 <dsg> doublec: No, mtgox is signed by GoDaddy.
600 2010-10-07 21:19:34 <dsg> grondilu: I'd check the cert manually, but then I'm the paranoid type.
601 2010-10-07 21:20:12 <doublec> dsg, yes you're right. I just checked the cert.
602 2010-10-07 21:22:38 <grondilu> (know)
603 2010-10-07 21:26:52 <kencausey> I've accessed the site with Firefox/Opera/I.E. on Windows and Linux and had no problems, so that doesn't seem normal
604 2010-10-07 21:27:42 <doublec> grondilu, are you on public wifi or something like that?
605 2010-10-07 21:40:24 <grondilu> no, but I'm using Tor
606 2010-10-07 21:41:14 <grondilu> also, I only get the warning when using w3m
607 2010-10-07 21:46:52 <dsg> grondilu: Be extra careful with certs using tor, the exit node operator can be trying to MITM your connection
608 2010-10-07 21:47:04 <ArtForz> hmm, maybe w3m doesn't have/trust the godaddy root cert?
609 2010-10-07 21:47:10 <grondilu> ok, thks
610 2010-10-07 21:47:13 <ArtForz> I get the same mesage from w3m here
611 2010-10-07 21:48:27 <grondilu> ArtForz: with or without Tor ?
612 2010-10-07 21:52:31 <ArtForz> without tor
613 2010-10-07 21:52:57 <ArtForz> cert checks out fine in FF and Opera
614 2010-10-07 21:53:07 <ArtForz> w3m throws a hissy fit
615 2010-10-07 21:53:36 <doublec> grondilu, does it give a fingerprint for the cert?
616 2010-10-07 21:53:45 <ArtForz> sadly, no :/
617 2010-10-07 21:54:00 <grondilu> no idea
618 2010-10-07 23:09:30 <Keefe> i'm dealing with a paypal dispute related to selling bitcoins. as far as i can tell, it is paypal, not the buyer, that initiated the "dispute". paypal wants me to "Please provide additional details about this transaction"
619 2010-10-07 23:09:57 <Keefe> how much should i explain about bitcoin?
620 2010-10-07 23:10:02 <Keefe> or not at all?
621 2010-10-07 23:10:58 <redengin> never answer an open inquisition, let them ask the questions
622 2010-10-07 23:14:09 <Keefe> they want the "shipping address" but they do allow me to select "Intangible Goods" for the type
623 2010-10-07 23:14:17 <Keefe> so i'll put N/A in the address box
624 2010-10-07 23:14:50 <Keefe> i'll leave the "additional information" field blank and see what happens
625 2010-10-07 23:17:49 <Keefe> hmm, The MadHatter on the forums says "currency exchange" is prohibited in their (paypal's) terms of use
626 2010-10-07 23:18:01 <ArtForz> yep
627 2010-10-07 23:18:17 <Keefe> hopefully they don't get too inquisitive
628 2010-10-07 23:18:38 <Keefe> cause i still have $200 in that account which i can't withdraw til this is settled
629 2010-10-07 23:20:30 <dwdollar> Is that through BCM, MtGox, or other Keefe?
630 2010-10-07 23:20:42 <Keefe> hi dwdollar. thru BCM
631 2010-10-07 23:21:04 <Keefe> #962
632 2010-10-07 23:21:10 <Keefe> 926*
633 2010-10-07 23:22:32 <dwdollar> 926 thru 930?
634 2010-10-07 23:23:22 <Keefe> just trade id #926, 200btc for $13
635 2010-10-07 23:25:00 <dwdollar> I can inform the sellers so they don't get freaked out.
636 2010-10-07 23:25:23 <Keefe> it might be random and only me
637 2010-10-07 23:25:30 <Keefe> i have no way of knowing
638 2010-10-07 23:26:30 <Keefe> fwiw, the paypal tranfer came from a different email than registered at bcm
639 2010-10-07 23:27:52 <Keefe> the Sold Bitcoins email says to expect $13 from pi...@aol.com but the money was received from Gi...@aol.com
640 2010-10-07 23:28:36 <dwdollar> Ah, I thought you were buying...
641 2010-10-07 23:29:56 <dwdollar> Well, I'll just see where it's at in the morning.  You can send me an email with the details if you like.
642 2010-10-07 23:30:10 <Keefe> dwdollar, do you have recommendations for responding to this paypal request for info?
643 2010-10-07 23:30:22 <doublec> tell them it's for virtual game items or something?
644 2010-10-07 23:30:33 <Keefe> ok
645 2010-10-07 23:30:34 <doublec> personal money transfer?
646 2010-10-07 23:30:48 <dwdollar> No I don't.  I've had several others go through this though.
647 2010-10-07 23:30:59 <dwdollar> I'm not sure what they said or didn't say.
648 2010-10-07 23:31:12 <Keefe> ok, no problem
649 2010-10-07 23:31:17 <dwdollar> But they eventually had it unblocked.
650 2010-10-07 23:31:32 <Keefe> do you happen to know if paypal contacts both parties and compares their responses?
651 2010-10-07 23:31:54 <doublec> that might just want confirmation it's not gambling or porn (or whatever their TOS doesn't allow)
652 2010-10-07 23:31:56 <dwdollar> It looks that way.
653 2010-10-07 23:32:24 <doublec> so avoid saying you were paying back gambling loses imposed to pay for your porn addiction using a virtual currency
654 2010-10-07 23:32:37 <ArtForz> hehehe
655 2010-10-07 23:41:09 <ArtForz> wow dw, thanks for cancelling #864, I was about to contact you on that one
656 2010-10-07 23:42:22 <dwdollar> I axed a lot of trades today.  There were too many and buyers weren't responding.
657 2010-10-07 23:42:43 <Keefe> hmm, paypal let me request withdrawal (to bank) of all but the in-question $13, so it's not too bad
658 2010-10-07 23:43:36 <jgarzik> dwdollar: ditto what ArtForz said; thanks
659 2010-10-07 23:43:48 <Keefe> thanks also :)
660 2010-10-07 23:45:47 <jgarzik> just crossed $0.07 on mtgox
661 2010-10-07 23:45:51 <ArtForz> wow
662 2010-10-07 23:46:05 <Keefe> !!
663 2010-10-07 23:46:17 <Keefe> i'm going to go with "I sold Gi... some virtual items in a game"
664 2010-10-07 23:46:46 <mtgox> yeah what is happening why is the market taking off today?
665 2010-10-07 23:46:54 <Kiba> yo
666 2010-10-07 23:47:03 <Keefe> this case is listed as "Inquiry by PayPal - Temporary Hold" in the Resolution Center
667 2010-10-07 23:47:09 <doublec> that's a lot of coins being traded
668 2010-10-07 23:47:15 <ArtForz> yep
669 2010-10-07 23:47:21 <Kiba> news of a gambling MMO has spreaded that why
670 2010-10-07 23:47:30 <Keefe> seriously?
671 2010-10-07 23:47:33 <ArtForz> a what?
672 2010-10-07 23:47:49 <Kiba> you heard me right
673 2010-10-07 23:48:07 <dwdollar> teppy has something in the works
674 2010-10-07 23:48:29 <Kiba> staggering record
675 2010-10-07 23:48:35 <doublec> "For tax purposes, please enter the country that you are visiting from." I wonder why buybitcoins needs to know that.
676 2010-10-07 23:50:12 <doublec> Surely they'd know from credit card details what country the transaction is related to
677 2010-10-07 23:51:14 <Kiba> certain buyers on mtgox seem to have unsatifable thirt for bitcoins
678 2010-10-07 23:51:25 <Kiba> but it look like the large bid disappeared largely
679 2010-10-07 23:52:29 <Kiba> there are still more buyers than sellers...
680 2010-10-07 23:53:38 <mtgox> you think because of this mmo casino the price went up?
681 2010-10-07 23:53:45 <Kiba> naw
682 2010-10-07 23:53:58 <jgarzik> high LRUSD volume too
683 2010-10-07 23:54:33 <Kiba> well, I got a story up for bitcoin on a social news site a few day ago
684 2010-10-07 23:54:43 <Kiba> but there has been an influx of new guys on the forum
685 2010-10-07 23:54:51 <Kiba> and also, posting activities are up
686 2010-10-07 23:54:55 <mtgox> yeah it seems weird. There aren't really more users in the forum
687 2010-10-07 23:55:12 <mtgox> oh you think so?
688 2010-10-07 23:55:16 <Kiba> mtgox: so 30 days deposit
689 2010-10-07 23:55:21 <dwdollar> The number of connections isn't up either.
690 2010-10-07 23:55:22 <mtgox> what site?
691 2010-10-07 23:56:06 <Kiba> posting activities last month wasn't great
692 2010-10-07 23:56:10 <Kiba> it was half of August
693 2010-10-07 23:56:11 <doublec> there's been an upswing in bitcoin discussion on freenet recently
694 2010-10-07 23:56:22 <smop> oh really
695 2010-10-07 23:56:25 <jgarzik> 0.08 on mtgox
696 2010-10-07 23:56:26 <dwdollar> I'm starting to think that more people are storing their Bitcoins on sites though.
697 2010-10-07 23:56:39 <doublec> where 'upswing' equals people have started posting messages in the 'bitcoin' FMS board
698 2010-10-07 23:56:55 <Kiba> in 7 days, there been thousands of posts...
699 2010-10-07 23:57:12 <doublec> and one of the freenet developers said he was wiling to deal with bitcoin donations personally for the project if they were worth greater than $100 US
700 2010-10-07 23:57:20 <Kiba> mtgox: isn't there a 30 days waiting period for deposit on mtgox?
701 2010-10-07 23:57:35 <mtgox> kiba: yeah for paypal
702 2010-10-07 23:57:45 <jgarzik> btcex keeps crashing
703 2010-10-07 23:58:00 <Kiba> than, it couldn't be new guys
704 2010-10-07 23:58:15 <jgarzik> a lot of Russian interest on my website, looking at Accept-Language
705 2010-10-07 23:58:53 <mtgox> yeah paypal doesn't work in russia. bitcion will be all russian soon I bet
706 2010-10-07 23:59:00 <Kiba> what you guys think of my bitcoin mutual aid assocation idea?
707 2010-10-07 23:59:21 <Kiba> so the old guys are buying lot of bitcoins
708 2010-10-07 23:59:23 <Kiba> for some reason
709 2010-10-07 23:59:31 <jgarzik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paypal#Local_restrictions
710 2010-10-07 23:59:40 <jgarzik> China and Japan have restricted Paypal too, apparently
711 2010-10-07 23:59:47 <Kiba> jgarzik: crashing as in market crash?
712 2010-10-07 23:59:56 <jgarzik> Kiba: software crash