1 2010-10-09 00:00:34 <MacRohard> ArtForz, probably not
  2 2010-10-09 00:01:21 <MacRohard> ArtForz, it would depend how many i suppose, but up to 100% there will always be some amount of bitcoins that could be naked short sold without being discovered
  3 2010-10-09 00:01:24 <ArtForz> yeah, you cant get 100%
  4 2010-10-09 00:02:22 <ArtForz> it was just a random idea
  5 2010-10-09 00:03:06 <Keal> It is trivial to collide a hash. Bitcoin is retarded in that sense; the entire basis for the proof of concept is faulty.
  6 2010-10-09 00:03:49 <jgarzik> an escrow agent could sign a bitcoin transaction, after X days
  7 2010-10-09 00:04:13 <ArtForz> except... how do you stop the exchange and the escrow agent from collaborating?
  8 2010-10-09 00:04:40 <jgarzik> realm of trust, of course.  how can one trust any escrow agent...?
  9 2010-10-09 00:04:55 <jgarzik> mtgox @ 0.09
 10 2010-10-09 00:05:08 <ArtForz> crazy
 11 2010-10-09 00:06:53 <Kiba> people trusted me
 12 2010-10-09 00:07:28 <Kiba> well, somebody is going to have to trust somebody
 13 2010-10-09 00:07:46 <Kiba> I just found out that my root partition ran out of space
 14 2010-10-09 00:08:56 <Kiba> insane
 15 2010-10-09 00:08:59 <ArtForz> "oops"
 16 2010-10-09 00:09:03 <Kiba> insane volume and price
 17 2010-10-09 00:09:39 <ArtForz> yea
 18 2010-10-09 00:11:38 <Kiba> just yesterday, a mtgox record was broken
 19 2010-10-09 00:11:42 <Kiba> now it's broken again
 20 2010-10-09 00:12:06 <MacRohard> 0.12? damn
 21 2010-10-09 00:12:21 <theymos> 0.09 is an all-time high, I believe. After slashdot I only saw it go up to 0.08.
 22 2010-10-09 00:12:24 <Kiba> this is nut. This is unwarranted. Yadaydayda.
 23 2010-10-09 00:12:40 <jgarzik> I wish I had bitcoins to sell ;-)
 24 2010-10-09 00:12:56 <Kiba> I am alway chronically short of bitcoins
 25 2010-10-09 00:13:03 <jgarzik> Volume: 182,000
 26 2010-10-09 00:13:11 <jgarzik> past 24h
 27 2010-10-09 00:13:14 <Kiba> but I am disciplined enough to make 4 bucks over three months of trading
 28 2010-10-09 00:13:16 <kencausey> jgarzik: I'm with you, after 3-4 weeks of holding on to BTC I finally sold them a couple of days ago at a bare profit above the buying price.  So now I'm sitting with USD and not BTC at the wrong time.
 29 2010-10-09 00:13:54 <Kiba> I alway try to sell them for profit
 30 2010-10-09 00:14:08 <jgarzik> https://mtgox.com/trade/history is f'd up
 31 2010-10-09 00:14:11 <jgarzik> one bid
 32 2010-10-09 00:14:14 <Kiba> then of course, my bitcoins got sold when the rally came
 33 2010-10-09 00:14:15 <jgarzik> ~15 asks
 34 2010-10-09 00:14:43 <jgarzik> something must be exploding, because surely, low bids still exist
 35 2010-10-09 00:15:33 <kencausey> it coudl be the logic theymos just mentioend that I did not know about to not show low bids
 36 2010-10-09 00:15:45 <kencausey> perhaps it wasn't designed to handle such quick changes
 37 2010-10-09 00:16:15 <kencausey> that said, I did delete my only offer earlier
 38 2010-10-09 00:16:27 <kencausey> perhaps others have followed through unsure what to do in this situation
 39 2010-10-09 00:16:31 <Kiba> in another bitcoin rally
 40 2010-10-09 00:16:54 <Kiba> just imagine the volume....
 41 2010-10-09 00:17:09 <kencausey> s/followed through/done the same/
 42 2010-10-09 00:17:50 <jgarzik> I wonder if that leads to higher volatility?
 43 2010-10-09 00:18:01 <ArtForz> anything < 0.06 prolly wont show up atm
 44 2010-10-09 00:18:06 <doublec> I have a bid that's been active for awhile and it's not showing
 45 2010-10-09 00:18:21 <doublec> it's > 0.06
 46 2010-10-09 00:18:21 <jgarzik> nothing less than 0.1 is showing
 47 2010-10-09 00:18:21 <kencausey> Yes, someone earlier said that had place one at 0.06 at it didn't show up, which triggered theymos mentioning it
 48 2010-10-09 00:18:26 <ArtForz> wow
 49 2010-10-09 00:18:39 <kencausey> someone emailed mtgox?
 50 2010-10-09 00:19:02 <doublec> 10 minutes ago bids for 0.08 were showing
 51 2010-10-09 00:19:03 <jgarzik> it shows one bid only, 182 @ $0.1
 52 2010-10-09 00:19:13 <doublec> so it happened recently
 53 2010-10-09 00:19:18 <ArtForz> fixed range around avg bid/ask? or last trade(s) ?
 54 2010-10-09 00:19:28 <jgarzik> seems so
 55 2010-10-09 00:19:44 <kencausey> not a good idea
 56 2010-10-09 00:19:50 <Kiba> what with the 0.01 sold?
 57 2010-10-09 00:19:55 <jgarzik> this will really give people a distorted idea of the market
 58 2010-10-09 00:20:05 <kencausey> Kiba: someting else mtgox needs to be asked about
 59 2010-10-09 00:20:14 <kencausey> but it's not the first time oddly low sales have gone trough
 60 2010-10-09 00:20:20 <ArtForz> yep
 61 2010-10-09 00:20:21 <kencausey> but not usually for significant BTC
 62 2010-10-09 00:20:34 <kencausey> it was 100 this time I think, somewhat significant
 63 2010-10-09 00:20:58 <ArtForz> possibly
 64 2010-10-09 00:21:38 <kencausey> in any case I think I'll just watch for a while
 65 2010-10-09 00:21:50 <Kiba> Netsniper: I am with you on thise one
 66 2010-10-09 00:21:52 <Kiba> it's a bubble
 67 2010-10-09 00:21:59 <jgarzik> kencausey: well if you have BTC, now's a good time to sell :)
 68 2010-10-09 00:22:05 <Kiba> jgarzik: you think it was bot generated?
 69 2010-10-09 00:22:18 <jgarzik> Kiba: I meant bubble created by software bug
 70 2010-10-09 00:22:35 <jgarzik> mtgox: we've been discussing your market display :)
 71 2010-10-09 00:22:44 <Netsniper> someone is gonna be real sad when they see thier bank account tomorrow
 72 2010-10-09 00:22:52 <mtgox> yeah something very weird is happening
 73 2010-10-09 00:22:57 <ArtForz> ...yeah
 74 2010-10-09 00:22:58 <Kiba> Netsniper: why?
 75 2010-10-09 00:23:13 <Netsniper> Kiba: because they've bought so many btc
 76 2010-10-09 00:23:33 <kencausey> jgarzik: I don't
 77 2010-10-09 00:23:36 <jgarzik> mtgox: theymos hinted that code filters out low bid / high asks when showing Depth of Market?
 78 2010-10-09 00:23:44 <Kiba> you think it was like one person buying all that bitcoins or just a few individuals?
 79 2010-10-09 00:23:59 <jgarzik> there we go
 80 2010-10-09 00:24:06 <jgarzik> that bid went away, and a bunch of smaller bids appeared
 81 2010-10-09 00:24:18 <Netsniper> Kiba: difficult to say with specificity, but btc is a pretty small market as markets go
 82 2010-10-09 00:24:30 <jgarzik> 0.075 - 0.084
 83 2010-10-09 00:24:38 <ArtForz> yea, I see em
 84 2010-10-09 00:25:17 <kencausey> mtgox: I assume you noticed or have been told about: {"date":1286572504,"price":0.01,"amount":100}
 85 2010-10-09 00:25:56 <mtgox> kencausey: yeah that is the least of the worries right now
 86 2010-10-09 00:25:58 <kencausey> mtgox: that's a trade, if I'm not clear
 87 2010-10-09 00:26:00 <kencausey> mtgox: ok
 88 2010-10-09 00:27:55 <Kiba> look like we now have a support range, 10,000 bitcoins for 0.09
 89 2010-10-09 00:28:03 <kencausey> jgarzik: I think the 0.10 went away because it was honored: {"date":1286591000,"price":0.10001,"amount":182.585}
 90 2010-10-09 00:28:04 <Kiba> look like some people are still hungry for more bitcoins
 91 2010-10-09 00:28:30 <jgarzik> kencausey: yes
 92 2010-10-09 00:32:11 <kencausey> jgarzik: I would prefer they were all shown, but if you go that way I would also like the rest of teh bids asks to be shown in a form like: "There are also 37 other Bids in the range 0.01-0.5 totalling 3750 BTC in volume not shown"
 93 2010-10-09 00:32:47 <Netsniper> Kiba: i hope its not a hacked paypal is all
 94 2010-10-09 00:32:48 <kencausey> jgarzik: so that the outside of the market is shown in some fashion and not simply hidden
 95 2010-10-09 00:33:11 <Kiba> maybe it's an AI that really want bitcoins to be successful
 96 2010-10-09 00:34:08 <jgarzik> maybe somebody hooked up http://www.geniustrader.org/ to mtgox ;-)
 97 2010-10-09 00:34:44 <theymos> The price of BTC has gone up 3200% since April! That's nearly as much as the all-time increase in the gold price.
 98 2010-10-09 00:34:55 <Netsniper> maybe i'm about to order a pizza with the revenues from my last trade
 99 2010-10-09 00:36:59 <Kiba> theymos: not bad for a currency that's called fait money by libertarian detractor
100 2010-10-09 00:38:02 <Kiba> the gold luver will be in disbelief once bitcoins become more valuable than gold
101 2010-10-09 00:38:28 <dsg> mtgox: Do you have any statistics of how many people are actively trading?
102 2010-10-09 00:38:36 <kencausey> bcm is closer to gold than usd in the since that it's value is purely market driven
103 2010-10-09 00:38:40 <kencausey> s/since/sense/
104 2010-10-09 00:39:32 <kencausey> s/bcm/btc/
105 2010-10-09 00:39:34 <kencausey> oops ;)
106 2010-10-09 00:40:21 <mtgox> dsg: It is in the DB I guess. define active and I could look it up
107 2010-10-09 00:40:56 <kencausey> it would be nice to have an idea of the number of indidividuals involved in trades in the last 24 or 48 hours
108 2010-10-09 00:40:58 <Kiba> people who traded within the last 24 hours
109 2010-10-09 00:41:23 <kencausey> it would be kind of funny/sad if this were all 3-4 people trading back and forth ;)
110 2010-10-09 00:42:28 <Kiba> 3 and 4 mover and shakers?
111 2010-10-09 00:43:40 <gekko_> giving privledged information to other traders is a quick way to destroy any confidence people have in mtgox
112 2010-10-09 00:44:05 <kencausey> do you consider numbers of traders privileged?
113 2010-10-09 00:44:17 <gekko_> if they are not available to everyone then yes
114 2010-10-09 00:44:17 <mtgox> heh ok I'll stop typing this query
115 2010-10-09 00:44:57 <kencausey> gekko_: you have a point, but I think it would be useful to include in the header figures on trades/traders on the site
116 2010-10-09 00:46:29 <dsg> mtgox: Well, say, how many people have more than 1000btc? More than 10000?
117 2010-10-09 00:46:56 <kencausey> dsg: same issue, unequal access to information
118 2010-10-09 00:47:46 <dsg> Yeah sorry, I was reading the history log and hadn't reached that discussion. :)
119 2010-10-09 00:48:12 <dsg> But this would be interesting information to have as a statistic page on mtgox.com for all to see
120 2010-10-09 00:48:28 <kencausey> I agree
121 2010-10-09 00:51:05 <jgarzik> rate at buybitcoins.com is 0.083 (12 bitcoins per dollar)
122 2010-10-09 00:51:15 <jgarzik> one can arbitrage via credit card
123 2010-10-09 00:51:50 <doublec> maybe that's what someone's doing. and buybitcoins is going to get a lot of chargebacks.
124 2010-10-09 00:52:05 <mtgox> Well my most hopeful guess at what is going on is that guy with 20k BTC for .10 is trying to corner the market.
125 2010-10-09 00:52:43 <mtgox> I just hope they aren't snatching all othe btc with a stolen credit card
126 2010-10-09 00:52:56 <Netsniper> same here
127 2010-10-09 00:57:54 <MacRohard> what's going on at btcex?
128 2010-10-09 00:58:08 <Kiba> The Russians are too few
129 2010-10-09 00:58:21 <MacRohard> hmm
130 2010-10-09 00:58:41 <Kiba> another 10,000 bitcoins was just exchanged
131 2010-10-09 00:58:55 <Kiba> with any luck, we might reach 200,000 at the end of the day
132 2010-10-09 00:59:58 <Netsniper> wont be me, i dont have enough in the market to move the price
133 2010-10-09 01:00:23 <Kiba> I am a minincule player
134 2010-10-09 01:00:44 <Kiba> you'll missed out if it is real
135 2010-10-09 01:00:47 <jgarzik> there we go
136 2010-10-09 01:00:51 <Kiba> ;mtgox
137 2010-10-09 01:00:52 <jgarzik> market coming back down to earth
138 2010-10-09 01:00:57 <doublec> what happens on mtgox is trade are made with a paypal account that paypal doesn't honor?
139 2010-10-09 01:01:02 <doublec> s/is/if
140 2010-10-09 01:01:06 <gribble> Error: "mtgox" is not a valid command.
141 2010-10-09 01:01:06 <Kiba> ;;mtgox
142 2010-10-09 01:01:10 <Netsniper> nah, if it's not a stolen cc, and it's not a person trying to corner the market, the price will stay
143 2010-10-09 01:01:34 <jgarzik> sell baby, sell.  then I can buy bitcoins again.
144 2010-10-09 01:01:35 <doublec> I assume he trades get reversed since no one could cash out due to the 30 day period?
145 2010-10-09 01:01:37 <MacRohard> yea i'm not too worried
146 2010-10-09 01:01:41 <kencausey> mtgox: You should make it clear on the site what you have to deal with when there is trouble like this, maybe it will generate some donations ;)
147 2010-10-09 01:01:54 <MacRohard> maybe i should buy more haha
148 2010-10-09 01:02:00 <mtgox> no trades don't get reversed
149 2010-10-09 01:02:04 <Kiba> mtgox: or charge commison fee
150 2010-10-09 01:02:09 <mtgox> I just claim their account
151 2010-10-09 01:02:19 <jgarzik> best ask is still 0.1 ;-)
152 2010-10-09 01:02:24 <jgarzik> best bid ~0.071
153 2010-10-09 01:02:30 <mtgox> so I end up with expensive BTC
154 2010-10-09 01:02:43 <Netsniper> toxic assets
155 2010-10-09 01:02:44 <Netsniper> lol
156 2010-10-09 01:02:55 <mtgox> although so far I've managed to sell them all for more :)
157 2010-10-09 01:02:56 <MacRohard> mtgox, so you're exposed to losses- right
158 2010-10-09 01:03:03 <kencausey> mtgox: good to hear
159 2010-10-09 01:03:10 <doublec> ouch, you should definitely charge a commission!
160 2010-10-09 01:03:21 <mtgox> yeah I know
161 2010-10-09 01:03:26 <kencausey> well, it works as it is as long as the market is growing
162 2010-10-09 01:03:33 <mtgox> specially when the volume is almost 200k
163 2010-10-09 01:03:40 <kencausey> and the fraud is below a certain level of course
164 2010-10-09 01:04:08 <jgarzik> usually commissions are per trade (really per order, in the case of multiple fills you are only charged commission once), not based on volume
165 2010-10-09 01:04:38 <zooko> http://identi.ca/conversation/54339090
166 2010-10-09 01:04:46 <kencausey> it does kind of look like someone is buying up all the available bids
167 2010-10-09 01:04:47 <jgarzik> spammer
168 2010-10-09 01:05:04 <Kiba> mtgox: charge charge commison fee so we don't find ourselves no more mtgox
169 2010-10-09 01:05:14 <mtgox> jgarzik: not on forex. it is by volume
170 2010-10-09 01:05:26 <jgarzik> mtgox: it's different than equities?  interesting.
171 2010-10-09 01:05:43 <jgarzik> I guess that's just another way to charge a percentage
172 2010-10-09 01:06:17 <theymos> kencausey: Why did you kick him? The link was Bitcoin-related.
173 2010-10-09 01:06:35 <kencausey> I may  have made a mistake
174 2010-10-09 01:06:47 <kencausey> jgarzik: what was your 'spammer' comment?
175 2010-10-09 01:06:47 <Netsniper> :O
176 2010-10-09 01:07:18 <kencausey> I've messaged him
177 2010-10-09 01:07:32 <Kiba> zooko: so some guys thought it was a sucky concept..
178 2010-10-09 01:07:54 <Kiba> doesn't change the fact these guys missed the point.
179 2010-10-09 01:08:07 <kencausey> he's not here, my fault
180 2010-10-09 01:08:28 <jgarzik> theymos: a quick join followed by an immediate URL paste is a common malware signature
181 2010-10-09 01:08:38 <kencausey> yes, I thought the same
182 2010-10-09 01:08:52 <smop> identi.ca
183 2010-10-09 01:08:56 <smop> is like a twitter network, no?
184 2010-10-09 01:09:01 <jgarzik> yes
185 2010-10-09 01:09:08 <jgarzik> open source twitter
186 2010-10-09 01:09:09 <theymos> jgarzik: I've never seen it happen. You should at least check the link...
187 2010-10-09 01:09:13 <Netsniper> i often join & paste
188 2010-10-09 01:09:38 <jgarzik> theymos: that's the whole point :)  it is often dangerous to check the link [if you're on Windows, at least, which admittedly I'm not]
189 2010-10-09 01:09:55 <jgarzik> quite common on other IRC networks.  dunno about freenode.
190 2010-10-09 01:10:06 <kencausey> He hasn't repliced to my /msg
191 2010-10-09 01:10:18 <kencausey> s/c//
192 2010-10-09 01:10:21 <Netsniper> prolly devastated
193 2010-10-09 01:10:52 <kencausey> I apologized
194 2010-10-09 01:12:32 <Kiba> how much dollars worth of bitcoin was exchanged today?
195 2010-10-09 01:13:57 <MacRohard> ~$20k
196 2010-10-09 01:14:06 <ArtForz> grab http://www.mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php and start summing?
197 2010-10-09 01:14:46 <dust_> i've been running a script that tries to have the highest bid and lowest ask at all times
198 2010-10-09 01:15:15 <dust_> not sure how well it is going to do with today's trading
199 2010-10-09 01:15:16 <mtgox> oh really?
200 2010-10-09 01:15:36 <dust_> i hope you don't mind
201 2010-10-09 01:15:37 <MacRohard> is that where all the micro trades come from?
202 2010-10-09 01:15:47 <dust_> it is good for the market, right?
203 2010-10-09 01:15:55 <mtgox> yeah its great
204 2010-10-09 01:16:03 <Kiba> I am doing 20 bitcoins sell and buys since I only have 100ish bitcoins at time
205 2010-10-09 01:16:23 <dust_> i saw some odd trades today
206 2010-10-09 01:16:23 <zooko> Oh man, Jeff Garzik called me a spammer.
207 2010-10-09 01:16:30 <mtgox> zooko is back
208 2010-10-09 01:16:32 <kencausey> zooko: And I agreed, sorry
209 2010-10-09 01:16:36 <zooko> Heh heh. :-)
210 2010-10-09 01:16:42 <zooko> It was an understandable mistake.
211 2010-10-09 01:16:43 <dust_> 10/08/10 19:19
212 2010-10-09 01:16:57 <zooko> Normally I do try to provide context and explanation and not just a hyperlink.
213 2010-10-09 01:17:02 <zooko> I guess I was being lazy.
214 2010-10-09 01:17:03 <dust_> i believe mtgox enforces a 10 BTC minimum
215 2010-10-09 01:17:19 <dust_> and my script checks against trades under 10BTC as well
216 2010-10-09 01:17:44 <mtgox> dust_ can you msg me your account name. I'm curious if it is you that is causing me all this concern
217 2010-10-09 01:18:11 <dust_> yes
218 2010-10-09 01:18:11 <Kiba> mtgox: was there scammers on mtgox?
219 2010-10-09 01:18:32 <dust_> how do I message?
220 2010-10-09 01:18:34 <mtgox> there is someone doing really strange trades and I'm hoping it is you
221 2010-10-09 01:18:37 <dust_> pretty new to irc
222 2010-10-09 01:18:38 <kencausey> dust_: /msg
223 2010-10-09 01:18:45 <kencausey> dust_: /msg <nick> <messae>
224 2010-10-09 01:19:11 <kencausey> dust_: failing that email using the link at mtgox.com :)
225 2010-10-09 01:19:13 <jgarzik> zooko: my apologies
226 2010-10-09 01:19:28 <zooko> Heh, no problem.
227 2010-10-09 01:19:36 <zooko> bitcoin is a neat experiment.
228 2010-10-09 01:20:07 <Kiba> zooko: these guys are missing the point. Bitcoin generation doesn't make the economy run.
229 2010-10-09 01:20:51 <Kiba> and they can buy bitcoins with paypal and the like.
230 2010-10-09 01:20:54 <MacRohard> yea. and bitcoins are relatively easy to acquire by paypal/wire/libertyexchange/webmoney
231 2010-10-09 01:21:22 <jgarzik> yah.  bitcoin generation is nice side effect, creating a self-supporting P2P network... but only if there are non-generators out there that also find value in bitcoin.
232 2010-10-09 01:21:30 <Kiba> sheesh, people get so fixated on bitcoin generation
233 2010-10-09 01:21:33 <ArtForz> yup, it's a digital currency, not a money tree ;)
234 2010-10-09 01:21:41 <MacRohard> it's more like a numbered swiss bank account ;)
235 2010-10-09 01:21:45 <kencausey> like many other opensource/new communities it is not so easy to understand without a significant investment of time
236 2010-10-09 01:22:14 <kencausey> a new visitor to bitcoin.org may never even hear of mtgox.com
237 2010-10-09 01:22:34 <Kiba> Mt Gox. sound like a mountain of understanding
238 2010-10-09 01:22:35 <jgarzik> well... it's listed on www.bitcoin.org/trade
239 2010-10-09 01:22:40 <Kiba> I grok ya bitcoins!
240 2010-10-09 01:22:43 <ArtForz> and yes, that statement coming from me might be considered somewhat hypocritical by some members of the community
241 2010-10-09 01:23:04 <kencausey> jgarzik: as are a lot of links that don't work, not a great confidence builder
242 2010-10-09 01:23:10 <Kiba> maybe mtgox should change its name to mtgrok
243 2010-10-09 01:23:16 <kencausey> it took me a few days to decide there was something really  haer
244 2010-10-09 01:23:21 <kencausey> s/haer/here/
245 2010-10-09 01:23:26 <Kiba> I immediately jump on the bandwagon
246 2010-10-09 01:23:28 <jgarzik> kencausey: really?  that's diappointing.  someone should post on We Accept Bitcoins with a broken list.
247 2010-10-09 01:23:28 <KingGurke> yeah, what's with the name of mtgox?
248 2010-10-09 01:23:55 <Kiba> once I saw bitcoin.org
249 2010-10-09 01:24:02 <jgarzik> my guess was: MounTain of Gold eXchange
250 2010-10-09 01:24:07 <KingGurke> oh
251 2010-10-09 01:24:08 <jgarzik> my guess was: MounTain of GOld eXchange
252 2010-10-09 01:24:13 <Kiba> I immediately grok its signifance
253 2010-10-09 01:24:51 <ArtForz> not MounT GOatse.cX ? *ducks*
254 2010-10-09 01:25:00 <Kiba> Mt Grok.
255 2010-10-09 01:25:17 <kencausey> jgarzik: actually it seems to be better now than when I looked in late July.
256 2010-10-09 01:25:36 <Kiba> late July is when I brought bitcoins on mtgox
257 2010-10-09 01:25:49 <kencausey> me too
258 2010-10-09 01:26:35 <Kiba> great. bitcoiners do think alike.
259 2010-10-09 01:27:01 <kencausey> I bought and sold 50BTC on 7/30 for a profit of 0.13 USD, I was hooked ;)
260 2010-10-09 01:27:25 <kencausey> It's been downhill ever since ;)
261 2010-10-09 01:27:34 <ArtForz> mid july @ bcm here
262 2010-10-09 01:28:03 <mtgox> Ok later guys
263 2010-10-09 01:28:10 <kencausey> mtgox: thanks and good night
264 2010-10-09 01:28:57 <jgarzik> John Robb lectures at the various US TLAs (CIA, FBI, NSA, ...) all the time.
265 2010-10-09 01:30:48 <zooko> Heh heh. I hadn't heard of John Robb in a while.
266 2010-10-09 01:30:54 <zooko> I read his book a year or two ago.
267 2010-10-09 01:40:08 <Kiba> I just made money.
268 2010-10-09 01:40:13 <Kiba> heheh
269 2010-10-09 01:42:10 <kencausey> Kiba: to the intrepid go the spoils, nice.
270 2010-10-09 01:50:10 <Kiba> kencausey: well, it's not like I try to buy everything I can with what I have
271 2010-10-09 01:50:32 <Kiba> took some acceptable risk and succeeded
272 2010-10-09 01:51:02 <redengin> anyone here an xml guru?
273 2010-10-09 01:51:20 <kencausey> I've convinced myself at this point that if I buy the price will immediately drop and not return for a minimum of months.
274 2010-10-09 01:51:40 <kencausey> redengin: not a guru, but feel free to ask
275 2010-10-09 01:53:09 <redengin> nasa created a schema called XDF, but it looks like they mothballed it, I'm trying to find out if someone incorporated it into a current schema
276 2010-10-09 01:56:02 <redengin> specifically I'm looking for a way to describe data and a conversion equations to apply units
277 2010-10-09 03:56:45 <dsg> ;calc
278 2010-10-09 04:03:12 <lfm> ;math calc 2+2
279 2010-10-09 04:03:21 <lfm> ;nr
280 2010-10-09 04:51:22 <Keefe> crazy, some btc sold at mtgox for 0.12
281 2010-10-09 04:53:59 <FreeMoney> I had a sell at 12.5, barely missed it
282 2010-10-09 04:56:45 <Keefe> unfortunately i don't have any btc to sell at the moment
283 2010-10-09 04:57:15 <Keefe> 600 btc stuck at bcm waiting for payments from buyers, but that's all
284 2010-10-09 04:58:37 <FreeMoney> I gnereated a block about 12 hours ago
285 2010-10-09 04:58:53 <FreeMoney> running 1 laptop about 12hr/day lol
286 2010-10-09 05:06:56 <lfm> ;nr
287 2010-10-09 05:19:48 <Keefe> FreeMoney, just cpu? nice
288 2010-10-09 05:25:16 <FreeMoney_> keefe: yep just a laptop cpu
289 2010-10-09 05:25:20 <FreeMoney_> 2500khash
290 2010-10-09 05:27:59 <doublec> 2500khash is great for a laptop cpu
291 2010-10-09 05:28:03 <doublec> what are the specs?
292 2010-10-09 05:28:47 <doublec> i get just on 2000 on a i5 dual core.
293 2010-10-09 05:33:28 <FreeMoney_> i7
294 2010-10-09 05:33:35 <FreeMoney_> 4cores
295 2010-10-09 05:34:26 <FreeMoney_> 2630 at this moment, varies of course
296 2010-10-09 05:48:35 <doublec> nice
297 2010-10-09 05:49:46 <doublec> I have an older laptop that gets 1600 or so but it gets very hot and starts to make "I'm about to explode" noises after an hour or so.
298 2010-10-09 05:55:12 <lfm> what do you think a GeForce 8400 GS could do?
299 2010-10-09 06:03:49 <doublec> more than my laptop I suspect
300 2010-10-09 06:35:09 <nathan7> BOOM
301 2010-10-09 06:35:19 <nathan7> I mean, hi
302 2010-10-09 07:12:30 <joe_1> hey can someone please look up a transaction for me
303 2010-10-09 07:14:12 <theymos> Depends on how much info you have.
304 2010-10-09 07:15:17 <joe_1> i have a block number and amount
305 2010-10-09 07:15:32 <joe_1> we're on 84200 and client says 15 confirmations
306 2010-10-09 07:16:38 <theymos> What's the amount?
307 2010-10-09 07:16:54 <joe_1> 942
308 2010-10-09 07:18:28 <theymos> I found it. What info do you want on it?
309 2010-10-09 07:18:43 <joe_1> how many were there, and what exact times to the second was each one originally announced?
310 2010-10-09 07:20:07 <theymos> I can't give you announcement information. I'm just looking at the block. What do you mean by "how many were there"? There's one input and one output, if that's what you mean.
311 2010-10-09 07:21:01 <joe_1> so the output would be 942. but were there more than one transaction with an output of 942 in that block?
312 2010-10-09 07:21:42 <lfm> I have 6 inputs for a transaction for 942.00 here
313 2010-10-09 07:21:55 <theymos> lfm: Yeah, you're right. I misread it.
314 2010-10-09 07:22:07 <theymos> There are two 942 transactions in that block.
315 2010-10-09 07:22:20 <lfm> yup there are two 942.00 transactions
316 2010-10-09 07:23:00 <lfm> both go to 1Ff2xcJtfWWiNRCTUuTng6TJQm3g8h61Y2
317 2010-10-09 07:23:24 <lfm> Block #84186 2010-10-09 07:12:35
318 2010-10-09 07:25:00 <lfm> anything else you want to know?
319 2010-10-09 07:27:40 <joe_1> no
320 2010-10-09 07:27:52 <joe_1> thanks for looking it up
321 2010-10-09 07:28:40 <joe_1> what was the previous block time?
322 2010-10-09 07:28:51 <joe_1> 84185
323 2010-10-09 07:28:52 <lfm> Block #84185 2010-10-09 06:56:17
324 2010-10-09 07:31:04 <SYNdicate> Does anyone know if it matters what version of the boost libraries you build with for mingw? build-msw.txt says 1.42.1 but I can only find 1.42.0 on their download page and I think I need both bjam and the boost libraries?
325 2010-10-09 07:32:08 <lfm> ya I use boost 1.40.0 myself so I dont think it is too critical
326 2010-10-09 07:33:48 <SYNdicate> k, and I guess it doen't matter what version of bjam as long as its recent. (I don't even know what it is, I've never used boost before, some type of build system I assume)
327 2010-10-09 07:34:34 <lfm> ya seems to be another library of everything to help port from linux to mswin or something
328 2010-10-09 07:34:59 <SYNdicate> ah
329 2010-10-09 08:07:36 <joe_1> the json stuff in bitcoin is broken
330 2010-10-09 08:21:45 <doublec> joe_1, how is it broken?
331 2010-10-09 08:35:04 <lfm> 
332 2010-10-09 08:35:10 <lfm> 
333 2010-10-09 08:51:08 <joe_1> i wrote a post on it
334 2010-10-09 08:51:32 <joe_1> in the development and technical discussion section
335 2010-10-09 09:30:02 <doublec> weird
336 2010-10-09 09:30:17 <doublec> I've not seen the error using perl's json-rpc library
337 2010-10-09 09:37:45 <joe_1> who knows
338 2010-10-09 09:37:53 <joe_1> im hoping gavin will figure it out
339 2010-10-09 09:38:17 <doublec> I use a patched bitcoin client though - but I doubt it makes a difference
340 2010-10-09 09:38:30 <doublec> (the monitorreceived, getblock, gettransaction patch)
341 2010-10-09 09:38:31 <joe_1> well i'm on 0.3.11 i should probably upgrade to 13
342 2010-10-09 09:38:41 <joe_1> what's monitorreceived?
343 2010-10-09 09:39:13 <doublec> with monitorreceived you can assign a URL that gets POSTed to by bitcoin when coins are received at an address
344 2010-10-09 09:39:22 <doublec> or a certain number of confirmations are met
345 2010-10-09 09:39:35 <doublec> so you don't need to poll for address balances
346 2010-10-09 09:40:00 <joe_1> i c
347 2010-10-09 09:40:10 <doublec> it also provids API functions to query transactions and blocks to see the block chain and receiving addresses
348 2010-10-09 09:40:28 <joe_1> i poll for them on balance request so i'm not constantly polling
349 2010-10-09 09:40:30 <doublec> there's a thread in the forums about it
350 2010-10-09 09:40:57 <doublec> yeah, it's useful say for a shopping cart where you give an address for payment
351 2010-10-09 09:41:12 <doublec> as soon as the payment is received you can fire off an email and do back end processing for the shipping, etc
352 2010-10-09 09:41:26 <joe_1> oh i see what youre saying
353 2010-10-09 11:54:43 <DiabloD3> ;difficulty
354 2010-10-09 11:54:53 <DiabloD3> bleh thats not it
355 2010-10-09 11:55:25 <DiabloD3> someone change the bot to accept that
356 2010-10-09 12:11:06 <bd_> ;r
357 2010-10-09 12:11:07 <bd_> ;nr
358 2010-10-09 12:11:14 <bd_> ;bcm
359 2010-10-09 12:16:25 <Tritonio> would you say "It opens a related page." or "It opens a relative page."
360 2010-10-09 12:16:27 <Tritonio> ?
361 2010-10-09 12:18:03 <DiabloD3> related
362 2010-10-09 12:18:32 <Tritonio> thank you DiabloD3
363 2010-10-09 12:18:35 <DiabloD3> relative would only make sense if the page(s) are moving at high speed in relation to each other, or you're talking about non-absolute paths.
364 2010-10-09 12:29:22 <Netsniper> ;freebitcoins
365 2010-10-09 12:41:03 <doublec> ;faucet
366 2010-10-09 12:41:15 <doublec> bitbot appears to be afk
367 2010-10-09 15:27:53 <MartinW> HarryS, if you were K-Lined you wouldn't be here. :-P
368 2010-10-09 15:28:25 <HarryS> :P
369 2010-10-09 15:28:27 <MacRohard> a naive assumption
370 2010-10-09 15:28:37 <HarryS> True
371 2010-10-09 15:29:11 <MartinW> So, I just got my first bitcoins. :
372 2010-10-09 15:29:12 <MartinW> -)
373 2010-10-09 15:29:35 <MartinW> What should I do with 0.50 of 'em.
374 2010-10-09 15:55:38 <mtgox> hey kiba I change the group name
375 2010-10-09 15:55:54 <mtgox> does the whoel fivegrinder thing make sense?
376 2010-10-09 15:55:58 <mtgox> er whole
377 2010-10-09 15:58:02 <Kiba> hmm
378 2010-10-09 15:58:12 <Kiba> well, the group idea is pretty slick
379 2010-10-09 15:58:24 <Kiba> well
380 2010-10-09 15:58:26 <Kiba> I have to say
381 2010-10-09 15:58:35 <Kiba> the mutual aid association receive general disinterest
382 2010-10-09 15:58:40 <Kiba> few people comments on the idea
383 2010-10-09 15:58:49 <Kiba> not saying it was a bad idea...or a good idea
384 2010-10-09 15:58:52 <Kiba> don't know why
385 2010-10-09 16:00:25 <jgarzik> Kiba: not enough mutual aid money floating around
386 2010-10-09 16:01:35 <Kiba> not enough selective benefit....
387 2010-10-09 16:31:30 <Teppy1> Ah, this is where everyone hangs out.
388 2010-10-09 16:31:50 <Teppy1> We're doing the play session in Dragon's Tale now.
389 2010-10-09 16:32:14 <Kiba> I'll try it out when I get home
390 2010-10-09 16:32:34 <Kiba> also, my partition for root seem to be filled so I can't compile a new version of bitcoin :(
391 2010-10-09 16:32:53 <Teppy1> k
392 2010-10-09 16:33:18 <MartinW> Kiba, wipe some temporary files?
393 2010-10-09 16:34:15 <Teppy1> If you're low on space, just download the Launcher.
394 2010-10-09 16:34:22 <Teppy1> (Windows or Linux?)
395 2010-10-09 16:35:24 <Kiba> it's about bitcoin upgrade as well
396 2010-10-09 16:35:33 <Kiba> it was only 7 GB reserved for root
397 2010-10-09 16:35:48 <Kiba> I'll need to resize the partition
398 2010-10-09 16:36:03 <Kiba> which I can't seem to do since I am using that partition already
399 2010-10-09 16:36:10 <Kiba> when I boot up my desktop
400 2010-10-09 16:36:29 <ArtForz> LiveCD to the rescue ;)
401 2010-10-09 16:37:43 <Kiba> ya know what weird? My netbook come with a CD for reinstalling window
402 2010-10-09 16:37:54 <ArtForz> lol
403 2010-10-09 16:38:11 <Kiba> the only problem is that I don't have CD drive
404 2010-10-09 16:38:13 <ArtForz> "USB CD drive sold sperately"
405 2010-10-09 16:39:07 <Kiba> CD drive...going the way of the dodo birds
406 2010-10-09 16:39:23 <ArtForz> at least for ultraportables and netbooks
407 2010-10-09 16:40:20 <Kiba> they only store 700 MB compared to a USB drive of 1 to 2, to 16 GB?
408 2010-10-09 16:40:46 <ArtForz> 32GB usb flash sticks aren't exactl??y uncommon nowadays
409 2010-10-09 16:40:55 <ArtForz> 64GB is still kinda rare
410 2010-10-09 16:41:09 <Kiba> more space than people know what to do with it
411 2010-10-09 16:41:32 <Kiba> well, at least more space to put more CPU
412 2010-10-09 16:41:43 <Kiba> and RAM
413 2010-10-09 16:41:56 <ArtForz> well, my desktop also doesn't have a internal cd/dvd drive
414 2010-10-09 16:42:26 <DiabloD3> ArtForz: they have 64gb ones that are physically larger
415 2010-10-09 16:42:31 <DiabloD3> "cheap" anyways
416 2010-10-09 16:43:14 <ArtForz> got a usb2 slimline dvd-rw shared between 3 desktops, a P-M tablet and a netbook
417 2010-10-09 16:44:40 <Kiba> they can make damn computers faster but they can't extend the lifespan of an average human being
418 2010-10-09 16:44:55 <DiabloD3> Kiba: oh, they can do that too
419 2010-10-09 16:45:25 <Kiba> destroying cancers and the like, improving youthness
420 2010-10-09 16:46:08 <Kiba> at least computers can potentially speed up research
421 2010-10-09 16:46:44 <ArtForz> whoa
422 2010-10-09 16:46:49 <Kiba> ;mtgox
423 2010-10-09 16:47:01 <gribble> Error: "mtgox" is not a valid command.
424 2010-10-09 16:47:01 <Kiba> ;;mtgox
425 2010-10-09 16:47:08 <Kiba> bitbot is dead?
426 2010-10-09 16:47:27 <ArtForz> 50k @ 0.1
427 2010-10-09 16:47:27 <Kiba> well
428 2010-10-09 16:47:31 <Kiba> it reach 10 cents again...
429 2010-10-09 16:47:43 <Kiba> 50 thousand bitcoins were exchanged for 10 cents each?
430 2010-10-09 16:47:53 <ArtForz> looks like it
431 2010-10-09 16:48:11 <Kiba> that's 5,000 dollars right there
432 2010-10-09 16:48:40 <ArtForz> {"date":1286648771,"price":0.1,"amount":38.905}
433 2010-10-09 16:48:51 <Kiba> well
434 2010-10-09 16:48:54 <ArtForz> {"date":1286649590,"price":0.1,"amount":12.695}
435 2010-10-09 16:49:00 <DiabloD3> hrm
436 2010-10-09 16:49:12 <DiabloD3> can bitcoind list coin gen transactions?
437 2010-10-09 16:49:46 <Kiba> the almighty 7,200 bitcoins inflation rate a day is no match for the price deflation taking place
438 2010-10-09 16:50:39 <ArtForz> looks like it
439 2010-10-09 16:57:32 <Teppy1> Someone just won 140 BTC.
440 2010-10-09 17:00:25 <MartinW> Teppy1, in what?
441 2010-10-09 17:00:40 <Teppy1> Dragon's Tale.
442 2010-10-09 17:00:53 <Teppy1> Biggest win so far. I'll ask what his bet was.
443 2010-10-09 17:01:54 <Teppy1> Palace Slots game with a bet of 5.
444 2010-10-09 17:02:24 <Teppy1> It's an MMORPG casino I'm developing. We're doing a play session right now if you want to check it out.
445 2010-10-09 17:02:34 <MartinW> Ah, sounds fun.
446 2010-10-09 17:02:39 <MartinW> Sadly I can't check it out.
447 2010-10-09 17:02:54 <MartinW> My internet is truly awful.
448 2010-10-09 17:02:55 <Teppy1> Nothing is like a normal casino - no traditional slot machines, or card games, or dice.
449 2010-10-09 17:03:04 <MartinW> (Unless it's not realtime)
450 2010-10-09 17:03:30 <Teppy1> It's realtime. But it literally runs over a modem speed connection. If you're on Windows, download just the launcher from www.atitd.com
451 2010-10-09 17:03:51 <MartinW> I'm in rural South Africa.
452 2010-10-09 17:03:56 <MartinW> I approach modem speed on a good day.
453 2010-10-09 17:03:56 <Teppy1> (The full install is 200+M, but the launcher is 200k or so and will pull graphics as it needs them.
454 2010-10-09 17:04:05 <Teppy1> Ah
455 2010-10-09 17:08:15 <kiba> nn\\\n15527
456 2010-10-09 17:11:28 <kuala> hello
457 2010-10-09 17:11:55 <kuala> I went to "freebitcoins.appspot.com
458 2010-10-09 17:12:21 <kuala> and it was supposed to send 0.5 bitcoins
459 2010-10-09 17:12:38 <MartinW> kuala, I just used it and it worked?
460 2010-10-09 17:12:44 <MartinW> Of course, there's some lag.
461 2010-10-09 17:12:53 <kuala> i received the amount, but it says the status is unconfirmed
462 2010-10-09 17:13:00 <MartinW> kuala, yep.
463 2010-10-09 17:13:06 <MartinW> It'll take a bit to be confirmed.
464 2010-10-09 17:13:23 <kuala> I cannot resend the coins, because it gives me an error in amount
465 2010-10-09 17:14:04 <kuala> So, generally, how long is the wait?
466 2010-10-09 17:14:48 <MartinW> I think it depends on the amount of people generating coins.
467 2010-10-09 17:20:34 <jgarzik> kuala: around 1 hr
468 2010-10-09 17:20:55 <jgarzik> kuala: P2P network attempts to generate 1 block every 10 minutes.  You need 6 confirmations.
469 2010-10-09 17:23:20 <kiba> it will take 10 minutes to get a confirmation?
470 2010-10-09 17:24:02 <ArtForz> I think average should be ~5 min
471 2010-10-09 17:25:35 <kiba> I fear that might be an adoption barrier
472 2010-10-09 17:25:41 <ArtForz> avg 1 block every 10 min, assuming transaction <-> block timing is random it should be 0.5 block time on avg
473 2010-10-09 17:26:45 <ArtForz> of course if you're unlucky it might take over 1 hour until the next block is found
474 2010-10-09 17:36:35 <kiba> hmm
475 2010-10-09 17:36:43 <kiba> satoshi is online
476 2010-10-09 17:37:54 <kiba> ya think Satoshi would wake up 4:00 in the morning just to check out what's going on with bitcoin?
477 2010-10-09 17:38:33 <Teppy1> Online where?
478 2010-10-09 17:38:57 <kiba> on the bitcoin forum
479 2010-10-09 17:39:27 <kiba> it is probably that Satoshi might be from California considering that it is 12 in San Francisco
480 2010-10-09 17:39:49 <ArtForz> Local Time:
481 2010-10-09 17:39:50 <DiabloD3> why doesnt he come in here?
482 2010-10-09 17:40:38 <kiba> ArtForz: in Japan?
483 2010-10-09 17:40:47 <ArtForz> oh, right
484 2010-10-09 17:40:56 <ArtForz> I was thinking GMT :P
485 2010-10-09 17:42:32 <kiba> hmm
486 2010-10-09 18:14:04 <niekie> Hey. I'm selling ops for Bitcoin. Anyone interested?
487 2010-10-09 18:14:08 <niekie> nathan7: you? :)
488 2010-10-09 18:14:39 <nathan7> niekie: yar
489 2010-10-09 18:14:49 <nathan7> ka-ching
490 2010-10-09 18:14:53 <niekie> :O
491 2010-10-09 18:14:58 <niekie> Where did you get those?
492 2010-10-09 18:15:03 <niekie> Thanks :D
493 2010-10-09 18:15:08 <nathan7> from the bitcoin faucet
494 2010-10-09 18:15:13 <nathan7> it was a bit leaky
495 2010-10-09 18:15:14 <niekie> omg hax.
496 2010-10-09 18:15:17 <nathan7> I put a bucket under it
497 2010-10-09 18:15:29 <nathan7> and then there was ten zillion bitcoins in it!
498 2010-10-09 18:15:47 <nathan7> now you have OVER NINE THOUSAND bitcoins!
499 2010-10-09 18:18:21 <Teppy1> Is there a tool yet to move BTC from one wallet.dat file to another file?
500 2010-10-09 18:18:49 <MartinW> Something I'm curious about, if the SHA 256 has is broken will bitcoins be able to switch to a new hash without losing all the current blocks?
501 2010-10-09 18:18:55 <MartinW> *has - hash
502 2010-10-09 18:19:12 <ArtForz> short answer, yes
503 2010-10-09 18:19:45 <nathan7> ArtForz: Long answer please?
504 2010-10-09 18:19:54 <ArtForz> community would have to agree on a "switchover block" and it'd be a breaking change
505 2010-10-09 18:20:41 <ArtForz> = old client versions would keep working on the sha256 chain
506 2010-10-09 18:22:19 <ArtForz> while updated clients would work on the new chain, similar to what happened with the invalid transaction and <= 0.3.8 clients
507 2010-10-09 18:23:17 <ArtForz> but I severely doubt sha256 as used by bitcoin should have any problems
508 2010-10-09 18:24:17 <MartinW> No, unless there's a mathematical breakthrough.
509 2010-10-09 18:24:37 <Teppy1> Basic crypto question for those that know crypto: Why not take whole bunch of hash functions and add the results together? Wouldn't that mean that to break this super-hash function, evey one of the parts must be broken?
510 2010-10-09 18:25:02 <ArtForz> depends on how you combine them
511 2010-10-09 18:25:14 <ArtForz> afair schneier wrote about that
512 2010-10-09 18:25:47 <nathan7> niekie: muwhahaha!
513 2010-10-09 18:25:54 <ArtForz> basic problem is if you simply linearly combine (xor, add, ...) them and one of em has a preimage attack, your scheme is toast
514 2010-10-09 18:26:38 <ArtForz> to be safe against that you pretty much have to do hash(hashX(a) . hashy(a) . ...)
515 2010-10-09 18:28:25 <niekie> nathan7's bitcoins are fake. I'm sending a collection agency :(
516 2010-10-09 18:28:35 <niekie> (hehehe)
517 2010-10-09 18:28:41 <ArtForz> to affect block generation you'd need a preimage attack on sha256, which I think is pretty unlikely
518 2010-10-09 18:29:42 <ArtForz> I think the sha2 design should also resist chosen-input collision attacks a lot better than sha1, considering that was one of the big selection criteria
519 2010-10-09 18:31:28 <DiabloD3> ArtForz: except sha1 was never considered for bitcoin =P
520 2010-10-09 18:31:33 <ArtForz> so yeah, if sha256 is ever severely broken we'd have to do a breaking client+protocol change to replace it with sha4-1024 or whatever will be current then
521 2010-10-09 18:31:46 <DiabloD3> sha3 probably
522 2010-10-09 18:32:01 <ArtForz> diablo: read the scrollback
523 2010-10-09 18:32:17 <DiabloD3> too lazy to read it
524 2010-10-09 18:32:25 <ArtForz> q: "what happens if sha256 is ever broken"
525 2010-10-09 18:32:51 <DiabloD3> yes I saw that
526 2010-10-09 18:33:16 <ArtForz> a: "community will have to aggree on last valid sha256 block and introduce a breaking client+protocol change to switch to a different bigger hash"
527 2010-10-09 18:33:52 <nathan7> niekie: :o
528 2010-10-09 18:34:25 <ArtForz> so yeah, it won't be too pretty, but the whole 0.3.8 invalid TX thing was pretty much a breaking change and worked out
529 2010-10-09 18:38:54 <kiba> Join the Bitcoin Mutual Aid Association! http://fivegrinder.com/group/Bitcoin%20Mutual%20Aid%20Association#main
530 2010-10-09 18:43:03 <MartinW> kiba, it's no fun joining an organization that's not secret. ;-)
531 2010-10-09 18:44:58 <FreeMoney> :mtgox what is the rule for the chart and data?
532 2010-10-09 18:45:07 <FreeMoney> it cuts off a lot that is important imo
533 2010-10-09 18:45:25 <mtgox> the depth chart?
534 2010-10-09 18:45:33 <FreeMoney> yes
535 2010-10-09 18:45:43 <FreeMoney> the edges seem to move around a lot
536 2010-10-09 18:46:01 <FreeMoney> but it is off center I'd say
537 2010-10-09 18:46:09 <mtgox> well it only shows a certain % on either side of the last trade
538 2010-10-09 18:46:28 <mtgox> it was working ok until the volatilty went so high
539 2010-10-09 18:46:32 <FreeMoney> is it possible to make the chart do that, but the table be complete?
540 2010-10-09 18:46:54 <FreeMoney> insane volume lately!
541 2010-10-09 18:47:09 <mtgox> yeah
542 2010-10-09 18:47:27 <jgarzik> high prices will do that :)
543 2010-10-09 18:47:53 <FreeMoney> I was worried that maybe someone was dumping uncleared funds to a cleared account
544 2010-10-09 18:48:05 <FreeMoney> do you see any evidence of that?
545 2010-10-09 18:49:04 <jgarzik> mtgox: Rather than the default 'sale' money transfer, PayPal permits an 'authorization', which will hold funds for up to 3 days before being released to the merchant (via 'order') or back to the user.  I was wondering if that feature would help security at all...?
546 2010-10-09 18:49:16 <mtgox> Feemoney: I was looking but I don't see that
547 2010-10-09 18:49:24 <FreeMoney> that's good
548 2010-10-09 18:49:40 <FreeMoney> huge volume coupled with bitcoin market's issues I was worried
549 2010-10-09 18:50:13 <mtgox> there was some fraud for sure but it doesn't count for all the vol
550 2010-10-09 18:51:00 <ArtForz> well, my guess is a few fraudulent trades set off this whole thing, but it quickly became self-sustaining
551 2010-10-09 18:51:47 <mtgox> yeah that is what I'm thinking
552 2010-10-09 18:52:17 <mtgox> I wonder if the price will just be up there now or if it will settle back to .6 or so
553 2010-10-09 18:52:21 <nathan7> :o
554 2010-10-09 18:53:00 <nathan7> except I don't acquire any
555 2010-10-09 18:53:06 <jgarzik> Bitcoin Store is seeing some biz, even at current market prices
556 2010-10-09 18:53:51 <mtgox> yeah I sold I'll mine at .8 :(
557 2010-10-09 18:54:00 <mtgox> er .08
558 2010-10-09 18:54:25 <nathan7> :o
559 2010-10-09 18:55:33 <jgarzik> I cannot say I fully understand the changes to BitcoinMiner in SVN r163
560 2010-10-09 18:56:07 <jgarzik> -        txNew.vin[0].scriptSig << nBits << ++bnExtraNonce;
561 2010-10-09 18:56:49 <ArtForz> nBits in the coinbase TX input sig is just wasting space?
562 2010-10-09 18:56:56 <kiba> will the volume be self-sustaining?
563 2010-10-09 18:57:59 <ArtForz> yep
564 2010-10-09 18:58:11 <ArtForz> client never checks if nBits is in coinbase txin
565 2010-10-09 18:58:33 <jgarzik> hmmm
566 2010-10-09 18:58:39 <jgarzik> also some extranonce changes in the miner
567 2010-10-09 18:58:41 <ArtForz> and its not useful as a source of entropy
568 2010-10-09 18:58:45 <ArtForz> I see it
569 2010-10-09 18:59:11 <ArtForz> no clue why we're resetting extranonce? to limit coinbase txin size?
570 2010-10-09 19:03:39 <jgarzik> short URLs, perhaps?
571 2010-10-09 19:03:49 <ArtForz> sell it for a shitload?
572 2010-10-09 19:03:56 <soultcer> Not another url shortener please :-/
573 2010-10-09 19:04:33 <ArtForz> three letter domains are worth quite a bit
574 2010-10-09 19:04:56 <jgarzik> ArtForz: what's a good marketplace?
575 2010-10-09 19:06:32 <ArtForz> dunno, friend of mine sold his on sedo
576 2010-10-09 19:38:07 <jgarzik> :)
577 2010-10-09 19:38:18 <jgarzik> I'm pretty sure it waits for 6 confirmations
578 2010-10-09 20:04:35 <kencausey> jgarzik: yes, the usual 6 confirmations
579 2010-10-09 20:08:31 <DiabloD3> why 6 instead of 5?
580 2010-10-09 20:18:29 <kencausey> 6 == 1 hr, theoretically
581 2010-10-09 20:18:56 <kencausey> there may of course be some other more logical reason related to statistics/probability
582 2010-10-09 20:19:31 <ArtForz> I somewhat doubt it
583 2010-10-09 20:20:14 <ArtForz> if an attacker has less than half of the total network hashrate, chance of successful double-spend goes toward 0 quite quickly
584 2010-10-09 20:21:12 <ArtForz> if an attacker has more than half, chance of successful double-spend goes to 1.0 quite quickly
585 2010-10-09 20:22:45 <ArtForz> but again, an attacker doping that would be kinda stupid
586 2010-10-09 20:23:28 <ArtForz> if an attacker has > 50% network, id't make more economic sense for him to monopolize mining
587 2010-10-09 20:26:54 <ArtForz> unless I'm totally missing something
588 2010-10-09 20:32:30 <DiabloD3> so basically
589 2010-10-09 20:32:37 <DiabloD3> ArtForz could take over the network
590 2010-10-09 20:33:15 <ArtForz> not really
591 2010-10-09 20:34:12 <ArtForz> well, I guess I could if I wanted to for about 5 grand
592 2010-10-09 20:36:26 <ArtForz> whoops, total hashrate has risen a bit, so make that about 8 grand
593 2010-10-09 20:47:29 <kencausey> ArtForz: That's in addition to the hardware you have already accumulated?
594 2010-10-09 20:47:35 <ArtForz> yup
595 2010-10-09 20:49:11 <kencausey> Any idea how difficult it would be to detect that someone (or a group?) had taken control of the network?
596 2010-10-09 20:49:54 <ArtForz> hrrrm... for the "monopolizing generation" thing... decently-sized alternative block chains overtaking the main chain
597 2010-10-09 20:50:15 <ArtForz> if it's a double-spend, it'll contain a transaction thats different from the one in the main chain
598 2010-10-09 20:50:37 <ArtForz> if its "only" monopolizing generation, it'll have the same TXes as tzhe main chain except for the coinbases
599 2010-10-09 20:51:53 <ArtForz> thats the "beauty" of monopolizing generation, non-generating users wouldn't really notice it (their transactions get into the same block #s in the attackers chain as in the main chain, so stay at same # of confirmations when the attackers chain takes over)
600 2010-10-09 20:52:48 <ArtForz> and as long as the attackers chain manages to get ahead of the main chain inside the 120 block window, there's no possiblity of suddenly-not-generated coinbases being already in a valid transaction
601 2010-10-09 20:53:37 <ArtForz> so the only user-visible part woudl be "generated" transactions disappearing from their client before they mature
602 2010-10-09 20:53:56 <ArtForz> that is, for generating users that managed to generate a block
603 2010-10-09 20:54:11 <ArtForz> of course it'll be obvious as hell if you're watching the block chain
604 2010-10-09 21:03:08 <DiabloD3> hey art
605 2010-10-09 21:03:24 <DiabloD3> how do I make bitcoind list transactions that have coin gen events
606 2010-10-09 21:03:36 <ArtForz> good question
607 2010-10-09 21:03:48 <DiabloD3> list trans only lists actual transactions
608 2010-10-09 21:03:51 <ArtForz> I know the listtransaction patch can do it
609 2010-10-09 21:04:01 <DiabloD3> meh more patches
610 2010-10-09 21:04:07 <DiabloD3> I wish satoshi would commit some of this shit
611 2010-10-09 21:04:29 <ArtForz> listtransactions with includegenerated=true
612 2010-10-09 21:04:35 <ArtForz> it's in mainline
613 2010-10-09 21:05:21 <DiabloD3> erm
614 2010-10-09 21:05:24 <DiabloD3> Im running trunk
615 2010-10-09 21:05:25 <ArtForz> errr... whoops
616 2010-10-09 21:05:35 <DiabloD3> and dont have a listtrans at all
617 2010-10-09 21:06:12 <ArtForz> yeah, I got kinda confused as it has a stub in trunk :P
618 2010-10-09 21:08:54 <ArtForz> doesnt look like trunk has any way for that :/
619 2010-10-09 21:12:54 <DiabloD3> goddamit
620 2010-10-09 21:24:14 <kencausey> ArtForz: Thanks for the info
621 2010-10-09 22:50:07 <theymos> I'm trying to verify a Bitcoin address. After I decode it and remove the check code, I take the key-hash and do sha256(sha256(hash)). This does not seem to give me the correct check-hash. Is there some endianness stuff in there, or some other step I'm missing?
622 2010-10-09 22:53:11 <ArtForz> sec
623 2010-10-09 22:55:28 <ArtForz> first do the base58 decode
624 2010-10-09 22:56:11 <theymos> I've got that. 1DAksAU4ywTb85U1Ps9ekiXdqrp9j932dA=8579de9f89699ecae60460a32773fb98d5a820bc359cdee5.
625 2010-10-09 22:56:17 <ArtForz> the last 4 bytes after b58decoding should be == to first 4 bytes of sha256(sha256(first part))
626 2010-10-09 22:56:35 <ArtForz> sec
627 2010-10-09 22:57:25 <theymos> When I hash that I get 7c04bdfa...
628 2010-10-09 22:58:13 <ArtForz> sec
629 2010-10-09 23:01:15 <ArtForz> I think you're missing the starting 00
630 2010-10-09 23:01:57 <theymos> Thanks a lot! I would've never figured that out. :)
631 2010-10-09 23:04:52 <ArtForz> it's a bit convoluted
632 2010-10-09 23:07:17 <theymos> Does the 00 have to do with AddressVersion? I noticed that ommitting the starting 1 doesn't change the resulting base58 decode.
633 2010-10-09 23:07:22 <ArtForz> yep
634 2010-10-09 23:07:37 <ArtForz> fist 00 is version byte
635 2010-10-09 23:07:44 <ArtForz> which is included in the sha256
636 2010-10-09 23:08:55 <ArtForz> if you have ripemd160(pubkey) addr is b58encode(ver_byte . ripemd160(pubkey) . sha256(sha256(ver_byte . ripemd160(pubkey)))[0..3])
637 2010-10-09 23:10:14 <ArtForz> so a b58decoded addr should always end up at 25 byte length (1B version . 20B ripemd . 4B checksum), if it doesn't I think you have to left-pad it with 00 bytes
638 2010-10-09 23:11:32 <ArtForz> I think the encoder makes use of that, so theres valid addresses that are shorter in encoded form as their ripemd160 starts with 00
639 2010-10-09 23:15:56 <theymos> If the addressversion was 5, would you decode that separately or allow it to change the rest of the result?
640 2010-10-09 23:16:38 <ArtForz> it should get included in the sha256, but for now addressversion != 0 is invalid
641 2010-10-09 23:16:49 <ArtForz> TEST has addressversion == 1 I think
642 2010-10-09 23:17:05 <ArtForz> or was it 0xFF ...
643 2010-10-09 23:48:38 <Kiba> yo folks