1 2010-10-12 00:10:11 <jackmcbarn> when i go to the gpu link in the topic, i get a page about copyrights. wheres the download for the gpu version?
  2 2010-10-12 00:11:26 <doublec> I don't think it's as simple as just downloading a version. There are patches to build from source.
  3 2010-10-12 00:11:45 <doublec> There's a couple of pre-compiled versions but i"m not sure of their state
  4 2010-10-12 00:12:22 <doublec> for example, one of the first precompiled binaries was provided by someone who had a feature that sent 5 of the generated bitcoins from that client to their own address (to be fair this was mentioned in the readme for it)
  5 2010-10-12 00:12:41 <doublec> So someone else uploaded a 'cracked' version of this that had that feature removed
  6 2010-10-12 00:13:08 <doublec> This was later followed by the original person providing source and a binary. I don't know if that binary has the 'send 5 coins' bit in it
  7 2010-10-12 00:13:28 <doublec> So basically you have to read the thread to find what you want.
  8 2010-10-12 00:14:09 <doublec> If you have an ATI OpenCL compatible card you should instead read the OpenCL thread in the forums for instructions on building an OpenCL mining client
  9 2010-10-12 01:42:49 <Netsniper> mtg = magic the gathering, right?
 10 2010-10-12 01:52:19 <nanotube> Netsniper: heh interesting theory... i don't know where mtgox's name comes from ....
 11 2010-10-12 02:14:37 <gekko_> hello is anyone on mt. gox?
 12 2010-10-12 02:15:29 <doublec> lots of people use mt gox  I suspect
 13 2010-10-12 02:15:56 <gekko_> thx
 14 2010-10-12 02:16:10 <lfm> odd
 15 2010-10-12 02:16:14 <doublec> very
 16 2010-10-12 02:24:31 <Kiba> hey folks
 17 2010-10-12 02:24:47 <Kiba> totally inactive on mtgox
 18 2010-10-12 02:24:56 <Kiba> no funding, no price pressure
 19 2010-10-12 02:24:58 <Kiba> err
 20 2010-10-12 02:25:04 <Kiba> no downward price prssure
 21 2010-10-12 02:25:19 <Kiba> s/prssure/pressure
 22 2010-10-12 02:32:55 <nanotube> Kiba: well.. not many people are selling btc, since you can't withdraw the USD that you'd net from a sale.
 23 2010-10-12 02:34:35 <nanotube> mm, just as i speak, seems mtg price goes down as someone decides to cash out some btc... heh
 24 2010-10-12 02:34:43 <Kiba> nanotube: yes, that was my point
 25 2010-10-12 02:34:52 <Kiba> ;mtgox
 26 2010-10-12 02:35:01 <Kiba> no bitbot
 27 2010-10-12 02:35:09 <Kiba> look like some geeks hasdisappeared off the earth
 28 2010-10-12 02:35:17 <Kiba> particularly aceat64
 29 2010-10-12 02:35:24 <Kiba> I need him so that we can run bitpredict
 30 2010-10-12 02:36:02 <nanotube> Kiba: heh you drove away all the geeks! :P
 31 2010-10-12 02:50:15 <nanotube> ooh mtg price going down... looks like some btc dumping is going on.
 32 2010-10-12 03:25:32 <Kiba> scammers seem to think that bitcoins are easy way of making money
 33 2010-10-12 03:25:36 <Kiba> or at least purchase stuff
 34 2010-10-12 03:30:54 <lfm> difficulty about to change
 35 2010-10-12 03:33:12 <lfm> going up to 1377 or so
 36 2010-10-12 03:35:54 <lfm> 1378.02860718
 37 2010-10-12 03:39:47 <Keefe> what keeps the value of LRUSD close to other USD, when LR themselves do not accept deposits or give withdrawals?
 38 2010-10-12 03:40:25 <Keefe> in other words, it seems LR-USD is not backed by actual USD, only by what exchages feel it's worth
 39 2010-10-12 03:44:51 <lfm> isnt that like any currency?
 40 2010-10-12 03:45:09 <lfm> any floating currency
 41 2010-10-12 03:45:38 <Keefe> so LR-USD is no more related to USD than to EUR or any other currency?
 42 2010-10-12 03:46:23 <Keefe> it's independent from USD unless exchanges choose to tie its value to USD?
 43 2010-10-12 03:46:30 <lfm> depends who is buying them I spoze no more than cdn $ aur austrailian $ I guess
 44 2010-10-12 03:46:48 <Keefe> seems deceptive
 45 2010-10-12 03:47:09 <Keefe> they should just call it plain LR and not refer to USD
 46 2010-10-12 03:47:51 <Keefe> because the only relation between LR-USD and USD appears to be psychological
 47 2010-10-12 03:49:03 <Keefe> PP-USD is truly tied to USD because paypal themselves will "exchange" at 1:1
 48 2010-10-12 03:50:09 <Keefe> by "exchange" i refer to depositing and withdrawing USD to a traditional bank acct
 49 2010-10-12 03:53:18 <doublec> looks like buybitcoins has closed
 50 2010-10-12 03:53:56 <doublec> interesting reading on the site right now
 51 2010-10-12 03:54:13 <doublec> they've published ip address names and maps to geolocations of fradulent payers
 52 2010-10-12 04:01:07 <lfm> interesting, what should we do with those bitcoin addresses you think? is there any resonable way to use the info if they have laundered the BTC?
 53 2010-10-12 04:08:01 <MartinW> What's the IRC nick of the guy that runs Mt. Gox?
 54 2010-10-12 04:08:07 <Keefe> mtgox
 55 2010-10-12 04:08:14 <MartinW> Ah, simple enough.
 56 2010-10-12 04:08:22 <MartinW> I managed to withdraw funds before my 30 days were up.
 57 2010-10-12 04:08:32 <MartinW> I think I should pm him as that sounds like a bug.
 58 2010-10-12 04:08:37 <doublec> i'd be interesting to follow the addresses
 59 2010-10-12 04:08:39 <Keefe> via btc i guess?
 60 2010-10-12 04:08:43 <doublec> and see if they're used in other transactions
 61 2010-10-12 04:08:51 <MartinW> Keefe, yep.
 62 2010-10-12 04:09:13 <Keefe> he might reply to an email. see site
 63 2010-10-12 04:10:05 <Keefe> i imagine he's got alot on his mind right now, so is likely to not reply right away
 64 2010-10-12 04:10:22 <Keefe> i assume you know what's going on
 65 2010-10-12 04:11:15 <Keefe> ;estimate
 66 2010-10-12 04:11:15 <MartinW> No Idea.
 67 2010-10-12 04:11:31 <Keefe> paypal froze his account. see forum...
 68 2010-10-12 04:11:54 <Keefe> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1419.0;all
 69 2010-10-12 04:12:30 <MartinW> Oh, about that, yeah, I know.
 70 2010-10-12 04:12:34 <MartinW> I thought you meant about why I could withdraw.
 71 2010-10-12 04:28:30 <doublec> heh, I googled one of the emails of the credit card fraudsters on the buybitcoin site
 72 2010-10-12 04:28:54 <doublec> it comes up with a forum posting where they're asking for people to work at home by 'receiving online goods and checking them for suitability'
 73 2010-10-12 04:29:01 <doublec> no doubt goods bought with stolen cards
 74 2010-10-12 04:31:57 <lfm> not surprising
 75 2010-10-12 04:33:59 <doublec> that forum post lists an ICQ number to reach them on which when googled for brings up a bunch of stuff
 76 2010-10-12 04:34:45 <joe_1> doublec: buybitcoin site do you mean buybitcoins.com?
 77 2010-10-12 04:35:03 <doublec> joe_1, yes
 78 2010-10-12 04:36:01 <joe_1> oh well
 79 2010-10-12 04:36:13 <joe_1> good thing about credit cards just dont pay the bill if your credit card number was stolen.
 80 2010-10-12 04:37:20 <joe_1> my phone bill was messed up a few months ago i just didnt pay it. problem solved
 81 2010-10-12 04:38:25 <ArtForz> oh god, that argument again
 82 2010-10-12 04:38:38 <Keefe> heh, wrong place to brag about that
 83 2010-10-12 04:39:00 <joe_1> why
 84 2010-10-12 04:39:10 <Keefe> "see how easy i can screw sellers?"
 85 2010-10-12 04:39:14 <doublec> pretty sure joe_1 means not paying fraudulent charges
 86 2010-10-12 04:39:55 <Keefe> true. but it's exactly how we btc sellers can get screwed
 87 2010-10-12 04:39:58 <joe_1> yea were probley misunderstanding each other i'm talking about if my credit card is stolen
 88 2010-10-12 04:40:31 <doublec> sucks for the merchant though - which is why buybitcoins.com is going through
 89 2010-10-12 04:40:37 <doublec> s/why/what
 90 2010-10-12 04:41:08 <ArtForz> over here in EURland CCs are somewhat rare
 91 2010-10-12 04:41:38 <ArtForz> people manage fine with debit cards and wire transfer
 92 2010-10-12 04:42:07 <doublec> CCs are popular here in NZ. Debit cards have only just started to appear.
 93 2010-10-12 04:42:22 <Keefe> when you lose a physical wallet of cash, you bear responsiblity yourself. no merchant loses because of your mistake. but when people are careless with their credit card because they know they can reverse the charges, leaving the merchant to get ripped off...
 94 2010-10-12 04:42:40 <ArtForz> yep
 95 2010-10-12 04:43:15 <joe_1> dont get me wrong -- it pisses me off so bad that with paypal and credit cards, merchants get ripped off. It happened to me when paypal pulled back 1200 dollars from me. But i have to look out for myself too when i'm on the other side. if my credit card gets stolen, i'm obviously charging back and not paying the bill.
 96 2010-10-12 04:43:24 <doublec> which is why bitcoins are great for internet commerce
 97 2010-10-12 04:43:32 <ArtForz> well, that just means the system is fundamentally broken
 98 2010-10-12 04:43:48 <ArtForz> why the fuck is it 1-factor authentication?
 99 2010-10-12 04:43:51 <doublec> it's getting bitcoins that's the issue when fraudsters are lurking at the bitcoin->CC borders
100 2010-10-12 04:45:41 <ArtForz> yep
101 2010-10-12 04:45:55 <ArtForz> one neat thing here is you can still dispute charges
102 2010-10-12 04:46:22 <ArtForz> except banks require a copy of the police report to do so
103 2010-10-12 04:46:45 <lfm> well even if it was cash in the mail, youd be vulnerable to forged cash
104 2010-10-12 04:47:28 <ArtForz> yea
105 2010-10-12 04:48:06 <doublec> You'd probably want to bank or otherwise launder the cash to ensure it's real before confirming the transaction
106 2010-10-12 04:48:06 <lfm> and the customers would be vulnerable to lost mail
107 2010-10-12 04:48:27 <ArtForz> main problem with CCs from the view of a merchant is theres no way for the merchant to prevent fraud by card holder
108 2010-10-12 04:50:12 <ArtForz> we did address and phone verification for CC payments and still had > 10% chargeback rate
109 2010-10-12 04:51:18 <lfm> no wonder stores have to have such hi profit margins
110 2010-10-12 04:52:14 <jgarzik> I always wondered if photo ID + utility bill + uploaded HD video of user saying specified phrase would be a good system
111 2010-10-12 04:52:23 <joe_1> the adult industry gets high chargebacks
112 2010-10-12 04:52:48 <joe_1> credit cards are really only good for very legitimate purchases like food
113 2010-10-12 04:53:04 <lfm> joe_1, you mean porn sites?
114 2010-10-12 04:53:10 <joe_1> yeah
115 2010-10-12 04:53:21 <joe_1> a lot of these porn sites expect 35% chargebacks
116 2010-10-12 04:54:11 <lfm> credit cards are not good for buying food! use cash! if your buying food on credit your liable to get way into debt before you realize it
117 2010-10-12 04:54:34 <joe_1> haha
118 2010-10-12 04:55:01 <doublec> cash? you can't use cash! What if you get robbed?!
119 2010-10-12 04:55:21 <joe_1> but people dont charge food back, i mean, how do you prove you didn't eat anything for 2 weeks?
120 2010-10-12 04:55:24 <lfm> double robbers only want your credit card anyway
121 2010-10-12 04:55:30 <doublec> haha good point
122 2010-10-12 04:55:54 <doublec> cash is worthless. It immediately identifies you as a drug dealer or other criminal.
123 2010-10-12 04:56:22 <lfm> doublec, or an old fogey
124 2010-10-12 04:56:30 <doublec> hehe
125 2010-10-12 04:56:53 <lfm> grey hair has its uses! grin
126 2010-10-12 04:57:15 <lfm> they don't usually think I am a criminal I dont think
127 2010-10-12 04:58:04 <ArtForz> around here people dont bat an eyebrow if you pay stuff <5k in cash
128 2010-10-12 04:58:09 <joe_1> gideon vs wainwright?
129 2010-10-12 04:59:34 <ArtForz> of course we also don't have crazy laws that require you to prove your innocence if you have more than a few grand on you ;)
130 2010-10-12 05:00:41 <lfm> here its ten grand when they start asking for picture id and stuff at like a bank or the like
131 2010-10-12 05:02:54 <joe_1> bitcoins will solve all these problems
132 2010-10-12 05:03:03 <ArtForz> yup
133 2010-10-12 05:06:33 <ArtForz> nice, difficulty pretty much unchanged
134 2010-10-12 05:06:51 <ArtForz> only increased 4.5%
135 2010-10-12 05:08:10 <joe_1> does anyone have a bank that allows them to cash checks online by uploading a jpg?
136 2010-10-12 05:09:07 <lfm> joe_1, that seem unlikely
137 2010-10-12 05:09:59 <joe_1> they actually exist now, at least in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_deposit
138 2010-10-12 05:10:36 <lfm> wow, Im sure the fraudsters are licking their lips over that
139 2010-10-12 05:13:56 <joe_1> yeah, but it's safe for the merchant. accept people's scanned checks or money orders in exchange for bitcoins. Just wait the 1 to 3 bank days for word from the bank that it cleared. Once a check clears, pulling it back is very hard.
140 2010-10-12 05:22:39 <lfm> joe_1, you make it sound like no one ever heard of photoshop
141 2010-10-12 05:23:42 <nathan7> hmm
142 2010-10-12 05:23:45 <joe_1> it's just an idea for a possible bitcoin exchange, not sure what problems it might have. i would think, if it's photoshopped then the check would bounce
143 2010-10-12 05:23:50 <nathan7> Bloody crashy thing
144 2010-10-12 05:24:11 <nathan7> What's this about? my client crashed D:
145 2010-10-12 05:24:54 <lfm> nathan7, any message or log entry?
146 2010-10-12 05:25:59 <nathan7> My IRC client*
147 2010-10-12 05:33:56 <bd_> joe_1: ... it takes a lot longer than 3 days for a check to clear
148 2010-10-12 05:34:30 <joe_1> how long does it take
149 2010-10-12 05:34:48 <bd_> potentially weeks. the possibility of reversal may stick around even longer
150 2010-10-12 05:35:19 <bd_> the funds may become 'available', but that does't mean it ca't be reversed, leaving you with a potential overdraft
151 2010-10-12 05:36:15 <joe_1> i've seen them clear a lot faster in the past few months
152 2010-10-12 05:36:29 <joe_1> it was this new law they passed that allowed banks to use the image of a check as the actual check
153 2010-10-12 05:36:45 <lfm> two different definitions of "clear" going on here  think
154 2010-10-12 05:37:44 <joe_1> ok.. so, the check goes to the depositing bank. then that bank sends it to the issuing bank, which reviews it and the drawer's account. if the drawer's account has sufficient funds the check is returned to the depositing bank as paid. at that point, the check is cleared by the definition i'm using
155 2010-10-12 05:37:55 <bd_> anyway, it's also very possible to photoshop a check and have it accepted - for a while, until the drawer notices and reverses it
156 2010-10-12 05:38:40 <joe_1> yeah
157 2010-10-12 05:39:00 <joe_1> what about money orders?
158 2010-10-12 05:39:06 <lfm> so thats like 60 days or something
159 2010-10-12 05:40:40 <bd_> joe_1: not sure about money orders, but the reversal period's probably about the same
160 2010-10-12 05:41:52 <lfm> traveller's cheques? I once heard someone claim they were one of the safest forms of payment
161 2010-10-12 05:42:22 <joe_1> maybe, i don't know much about them how they compare to money orders.
162 2010-10-12 05:43:04 <lfm> the thing is american express is very enthusiastic about chasing down fraudsters
163 2010-10-12 05:43:30 <lfm> so the fraudsters kinda avoid em
164 2010-10-12 05:44:23 <joe_1> o
165 2010-10-12 05:44:30 <joe_1> so theres the answer
166 2010-10-12 05:44:51 <lfm> if the guy who told me was right
167 2010-10-12 05:46:13 <bd_> lfm: TCs are fine ... if you follow all the proper procedures. Which means accepting them in person, and watching the person countersign it in front of you.
168 2010-10-12 05:46:46 <lfm> BCBot, ok, not so usefull for online purchases
169 2010-10-12 05:49:35 <joe_1> so how are you all buying bitcoins right now?
170 2010-10-12 05:57:37 <ArtForz> I'm usually selling for lr$ on bcm
171 2010-10-12 06:00:20 <joe_1> o
172 2010-10-12 06:01:04 <joe_1> im trying to hire a marketing director for my site
173 2010-10-12 06:09:35 <joe_1> in mybitcoin's payment button, what does "encrypt payment button uri" mean
174 2010-10-12 06:23:26 <doublec> joe_1, I find people in irc who want to sell and then do a private transaction
175 2010-10-12 06:23:56 <doublec> (in answer to the "so how are you all buying bitcoins right now?"
176 2010-10-12 06:24:28 <doublec> joe_1, it probably means obfuscate the URI so that it doesn't reveal your merchant details
177 2010-10-12 06:24:42 <doublec> paypal has a similar option
178 2010-10-12 06:33:50 <joe_1> ic
179 2010-10-12 06:34:24 <joe_1> yeah, i'm looking through it. i think i'm going to add a mybitcoin button to my site
180 2010-10-12 09:02:30 <Tritonio> ah. 0.85$ per bitcoin?
181 2010-10-12 09:02:34 <Tritonio> wtf.
182 2010-10-12 09:06:58 <MacRohard> heh
183 2010-10-12 09:07:28 <MacRohard> i might be willing to sell at that price ;)
184 2010-10-12 09:07:36 <Tritonio> yeah me too...
185 2010-10-12 09:08:14 <MacRohard> i guess someone made a typo tho'
186 2010-10-12 09:09:13 <Tritonio> but that's what I got form the "last" field in the ajax query. Isn't last supposed to be the actual price and not the one requested by some user?
187 2010-10-12 09:09:32 <Tritonio> Else it's pretty spammable.
188 2010-10-12 09:09:39 <dsg> MTG|     TRADE|                     19.741 @ $0.85
189 2010-10-12 09:09:42 <MacRohard> yeah but people have some pretty insane asks
190 2010-10-12 09:09:48 <dsg> So according to that there was a trade at that price
191 2010-10-12 09:09:50 <MacRohard> so it just takes someone to bid and there not be any bids
192 2010-10-12 09:10:14 <MacRohard> err i mean not be any reasonable asks
193 2010-10-12 09:10:49 <noagendamarket> how about we work on a system of bank to bank transfers rather than paypal? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1444.msg16706#msg16706
194 2010-10-12 09:10:54 <Tritonio> dsg: it can't be a sell at that price cause at the same time the highest ask and lowest bid was normal.
195 2010-10-12 09:11:06 <dsg> ah
196 2010-10-12 09:11:20 <dsg> Yeah, I just logged in and something's off.
197 2010-10-12 09:11:25 <MacRohard> could work. someone on the forum already offered to perform wire transfers with bitcoins
198 2010-10-12 09:11:30 <dsg> The only bid I see is NaN/NaN
199 2010-10-12 09:11:40 <noagendamarket> we need someone in each separate country to receive the bank transfers
200 2010-10-12 09:11:54 <MacRohard> yea i dunno
201 2010-10-12 09:11:59 <noagendamarket> so the cost could be zero if its done online
202 2010-10-12 09:12:08 <MacRohard> i think it would actually be better to just have a few people working out of shell companies in tax havens
203 2010-10-12 09:12:21 <MacRohard> people running that kind of thing in the US is asking for them to be arrested
204 2010-10-12 09:12:50 <noagendamarket> maybe not
205 2010-10-12 09:13:32 <MacRohard> look what happened to the guys running neteller
206 2010-10-12 09:13:36 <noagendamarket> the thing is it costs so much for international transfers
207 2010-10-12 09:13:47 <noagendamarket> my bank it costs $35
208 2010-10-12 09:13:56 <noagendamarket> ffs thats impossible
209 2010-10-12 09:14:17 <noagendamarket> :)-
210 2010-10-12 09:14:54 <MacRohard> well there are other ways such as buying prepaid debit cards
211 2010-10-12 09:15:30 <MacRohard> for larger amounts wire transfer is probably not a bad option
212 2010-10-12 09:17:44 <MacRohard> maybe western union hehe
213 2010-10-12 09:18:04 <noagendamarket> yuck they are even worse
214 2010-10-12 09:18:15 <Tritonio> wester union sucks.
215 2010-10-12 09:18:18 <Tritonio> really...
216 2010-10-12 09:19:04 <noagendamarket> the issue is the lack of liquidity
217 2010-10-12 09:19:47 <MacRohard> is mtgox pretty much shutdown due to the paypal cutoff?
218 2010-10-12 09:20:08 <noagendamarket> yes at the moment people cant get money in
219 2010-10-12 09:21:36 <Tritonio> noagendamarket: why not?
220 2010-10-12 09:21:46 <Tritonio> what cutoff?
221 2010-10-12 09:21:52 <noagendamarket> well he has no paypal account
222 2010-10-12 09:22:07 <noagendamarket> so therefore you cant pay into it
223 2010-10-12 09:22:09 <Tritonio> what happened to the one he got?
224 2010-10-12 09:22:25 <noagendamarket> they shut him down for too many chargebacks
225 2010-10-12 09:22:39 <Tritonio> what is his fault?
226 2010-10-12 09:22:50 <MacRohard> probably not
227 2010-10-12 09:22:57 <noagendamarket> no
228 2010-10-12 09:23:03 <noagendamarket> its scammers doing it
229 2010-10-12 09:23:15 <MacRohard> but buying bitcoins with paypal is probably against their T&Cs anyway
230 2010-10-12 09:23:20 <noagendamarket> yes
231 2010-10-12 09:23:25 <noagendamarket> more than likely
232 2010-10-12 09:23:25 <Tritonio> yeah whoever invented chargeback is a retard for not seeing into the problems he created.
233 2010-10-12 09:23:44 <Tritonio> MacRohard: why is that? :-/
234 2010-10-12 09:23:56 <noagendamarket> bank to bank transfers would solve it
235 2010-10-12 09:24:16 <noagendamarket> because your not buying btc then lol
236 2010-10-12 09:24:35 <noagendamarket> youre just sending money to your mates ;)
237 2010-10-12 09:25:04 <MacRohard> same with bitcoin market paypal to paypal
238 2010-10-12 09:25:26 <MacRohard> the problem with mtgox's model is he sits in the middle of every transaction which makes it easy to identify which paypal account to close
239 2010-10-12 09:26:02 <doublec> maybe a list of trusted paypal users where one randomly gets selected to do the paypal transaction
240 2010-10-12 09:26:12 <doublec> except then they're going to get hit by chargebacks
241 2010-10-12 09:26:19 <MacRohard> right
242 2010-10-12 09:26:20 <bd_> Tritonio: chargebacks fix a lot more problems than they solve. How would you like to be on the hook for a few thousand dollars when some merchant's database is hacked into?
243 2010-10-12 09:26:31 <bd_> ... than they create
244 2010-10-12 09:26:44 <bd_> the real problem is the lack of transaction validation
245 2010-10-12 09:26:49 <doublec> if a merchant stores CC info then they should be responsible
246 2010-10-12 09:27:05 <bd_> doublec: how do you intend on figuring out which was responsible?
247 2010-10-12 09:27:13 <bd_> Every merchant that has charged that person has the same numbers
248 2010-10-12 09:27:25 <doublec> true
249 2010-10-12 09:27:47 <doublec> one shot CC numbers then
250 2010-10-12 09:27:57 <bd_> doublec: how do you do recurring payments?
251 2010-10-12 09:27:59 <doublec> I like those services that provide one shot CC numbers for a limited amount
252 2010-10-12 09:28:04 <MacRohard> yes. prepaid debit cards are looking like a good way forward imo
253 2010-10-12 09:28:23 <doublec> Neteller lets you have one shot numbers for online purchases. It's great.
254 2010-10-12 09:28:37 <doublec> bd_, I wouldn't. I hate recurring payments :)
255 2010-10-12 09:29:49 <doublec> that mtgox transaction for 0.8 is odd. Similar to the 0.01 a few days ago.
256 2010-10-12 09:30:13 <noagendamarket> someone pressed the wrong key?
257 2010-10-12 09:30:16 <doublec> Is there some error that results in you actually being able to get a specific ask? That would be problematic.
258 2010-10-12 09:30:16 <Tritonio> bd_: it could be the merchant the one to initiate the chargeback then
259 2010-10-12 09:30:28 <MacRohard> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1445.0
260 2010-10-12 09:30:29 <doublec> noagendamarket, shouldn't it still find the best deal for you though?
261 2010-10-12 09:30:39 <MacRohard> doublec, ^^
262 2010-10-12 09:30:45 <noagendamarket> yeah
263 2010-10-12 09:31:01 <noagendamarket> just the highest one
264 2010-10-12 09:31:09 <doublec> thanks MacRohard
265 2010-10-12 09:31:45 <doublec> pity it wasn't a sell :)
266 2010-10-12 09:32:20 <bd_> Tritonio: what merchant would want to initiate the chargeback?
267 2010-10-12 09:32:37 <bd_> what happens if they just refuse?
268 2010-10-12 09:32:43 <Tritonio> one that didn't get the money after all when they hacked his database
269 2010-10-12 09:33:00 <doublec> how country restricted are prepaid debit cards? Do they require an address or anything when getting one?
270 2010-10-12 09:33:15 <bd_> Tritonio: what? that merchant has their money. They might never have noticed they were hacked into
271 2010-10-12 09:34:02 <MacRohard> doublec, it probably depends. the ones you get here have to be registered to a UK address
272 2010-10-12 09:34:17 <doublec> unfortunate
273 2010-10-12 09:34:19 <MacRohard> doublec, but it can be a made up UK address
274 2010-10-12 09:34:30 <Tritonio> ah wait. you are right. I couldn't even prove that it was the merchants fault.
275 2010-10-12 09:34:49 <doublec> hmm, it looks like the ones available in NZ make the registration optional
276 2010-10-12 09:34:57 <doublec> from what I can make out from the online marketing blurb
277 2010-10-12 09:34:59 <MacRohard> doublec, it might cause problems you try buy something to deliver to a different address though.
278 2010-10-12 09:35:20 <bd_> Tritonio: and the merchant might be in a different country, so even if you could prove it's their fault, you might not be able to force them to do anything about it
279 2010-10-12 09:35:22 <Tritonio> But still is chargebacks suck. They could just verify every transaction some other way.
280 2010-10-12 09:35:36 <MacRohard> i mean i imagine most people will buy something online with them - actually mailing the physical card is pointless
281 2010-10-12 09:35:47 <MacRohard> might as well mail cash instead
282 2010-10-12 09:35:48 <bd_> Tritonio: And how would they do that? :)
283 2010-10-12 09:36:04 <doublec> MacRohard, yes I'd expect just the card numbers to be sent
284 2010-10-12 09:36:04 <Tritonio> bd_: you are right. plus the merchant wouldn't even show up in the fraudulent transaction. So how would he be responsible to initiate a chargeback
285 2010-10-12 09:36:08 <dsg> Tritonio: That's like saying magic will fix it. Chargebacks exist because sometimes courts decide that fraud has taken place and money should be returned.
286 2010-10-12 09:36:12 <Tritonio> bd_: phone?
287 2010-10-12 09:36:15 <MacRohard> so most people would probably just register the card to a made up name /address and then spend it
288 2010-10-12 09:36:24 <Tritonio> bd_: sms
289 2010-10-12 09:36:45 <bd_> Tritonio: So when you're buying somethind at the grocery store, you'll have to swipe your card, then wait for a phone call or text?
290 2010-10-12 09:36:55 <bd_> Merchants would never accept that - it'd slow the line too much
291 2010-10-12 09:37:13 <Tritonio> bd_: yes. it would take 10seconds for the sms to come.
292 2010-10-12 09:37:48 <doublec> ouch, 3.5% currency conversion fee on the cards here
293 2010-10-12 09:37:51 <Tritonio> bd_: i use sms verfication to login into my ebanking account. it's not that unconvenient considering the extra security it offers.
294 2010-10-12 09:38:04 <bd_> Tritonio: that makes a BIG difference in really busy stores
295 2010-10-12 09:38:15 <bd_> and not everyone has a cell phone
296 2010-10-12 09:38:16 <MacRohard> until someone hacks your phone ;)
297 2010-10-12 09:39:11 <bd_> A better solution would be to put a chip in the card with an embedded private key and RSA (or ECC or whatever) signature engine onboard
298 2010-10-12 09:39:22 <Tritonio> bd_: make it optional for those that need the security. and who cares if that makes a "big" difference. They are even supposed to check my ID if I go and shop with credit card. The sms wouldn't harm
299 2010-10-12 09:39:29 <doublec> Heh, the 'anonymous' card here requires you to pay part of the purchase price using an electronic trackable transaction if it's over $500.
300 2010-10-12 09:39:39 <bd_> A certificate, with the merchant's ID embedded, would be required for at least the first invoice from any given merchant
301 2010-10-12 09:39:49 <Tritonio> bd_: I was just going to suggest that. But what would happen with online transactions?
302 2010-10-12 09:40:10 <bd_> Tritonio: You'd need a card reader. They exist, and in some countries similar systems are used for things like filing taxes, etc
303 2010-10-12 09:40:22 <MacRohard> doublec, so get them <$500
304 2010-10-12 09:40:29 <Tritonio> bd_: ok then. that would work too.
305 2010-10-12 09:41:02 <doublec> MacRohard, yeah I just thought it was bizarre since it's so easy to avoid that requirement.
306 2010-10-12 09:41:20 <bd_> problems: a) it increases the cost of manufacturing the cards b) legacy merchants will probably demand that the old system be retained... there are still merchants that don't use the CVC codes :/
307 2010-10-12 09:41:50 <doublec> wow, upper limit of $25,000. I guess that's why. They can hold a lot of value!
308 2010-10-12 09:41:58 <MacRohard> doublec, yeah.. i'm not really sure what the point of it is - you can probably use them to build up an identity around a name and then get a less restricted card in that name
309 2010-10-12 09:42:25 <MacRohard> doublec, like.. get a verified paypal account tied to a debit card <$300, sell stuff on ebay for $lots and then get a paypal funded debit card
310 2010-10-12 09:42:52 <Tritonio> bd_: on we go to the bitcoin system then. :-P
311 2010-10-12 09:43:21 <bd_> Tritonio: problem is if a virus steals your wallet.dat...
312 2010-10-12 09:43:50 <Tritonio> well we need encrypted wallets but that can be fixed.
313 2010-10-12 09:44:16 <Tritonio> something like the secring of gpg would be perfect
314 2010-10-12 09:45:09 <Tritonio> bd_: still it could still it the moment it gets decrypted
315 2010-10-12 09:47:26 <Tritonio> steal*
316 2010-10-12 09:52:29 <bd_> or just steal your password then decrypt it later
317 2010-10-12 09:53:15 <Tritonio> that too. unless you keep it on a smart card. or just use a trusted OS.
318 2010-10-12 09:53:53 <nathan7> Would be cool if you could generate without the password, but only access the generated money with the wallet password
319 2010-10-12 09:54:22 <ArtForz> actually with some modifications that should be possible
320 2010-10-12 09:54:40 <nathan7> But, cryptographically?
321 2010-10-12 09:54:45 <ArtForz> yes
322 2010-10-12 09:54:59 <bd_> generation doesn't require any private keys
323 2010-10-12 09:55:03 <ArtForz> exactly
324 2010-10-12 09:56:30 <ArtForz> hmmm, I wonder if a coinbase with a txout-to-addr is valid...
325 2010-10-12 09:57:04 <bd_> of course it is
326 2010-10-12 09:57:17 <ArtForz> well, right now there's only coinbases with txout-to-pubkey
327 2010-10-12 09:57:20 <bd_> the coinbase vallidation code doesn't care what the txout's script is, just the amount
328 2010-10-12 09:57:33 <ArtForz> ahhh, then it should work
329 2010-10-12 09:57:55 <ArtForz> yeah, I dont think coinbases are special-cased in the sign-txin code either
330 2010-10-12 09:58:12 <bd_> and anyway, you could just keep around the pubkey without and problem, right?
331 2010-10-12 09:58:19 <ArtForz> yep
332 2010-10-12 09:58:49 <ArtForz> but -mineraddr=bcaddr looks nicer than -minerpubk=huge_blob_of_hex ;)
333 2010-10-12 10:00:23 <ArtForz> we can use bnextranonce to add variation between miner threads
334 2010-10-12 12:44:57 <fahadsadah> WE NEED CHANSERV IN HERE, DAMNIT
335 2010-10-12 12:45:47 <nathan7> Yeah.
336 2010-10-12 12:49:26 <Tritonio> why?
337 2010-10-12 12:49:48 <nathan7> Tritonio: for opping people
338 2010-10-12 12:49:58 <nathan7> Because my bloody server restarted
339 2010-10-12 12:52:12 <Tritonio> ah ok
340 2010-10-12 13:00:50 <Tritonio> i don't remember if this has been asked again _here_: is there any way I get notifications form the forum?
341 2010-10-12 13:13:59 <nanotube> fahadsadah: so why don't you set chanserv to be on, and give the people you want +O +
342 2010-10-12 13:14:01 <nanotube> ?
343 2010-10-12 13:20:18 <soultcer> nanotube: We have chanserv here
344 2010-10-12 13:20:20 <soultcer> It's working just fine
345 2010-10-12 13:21:03 <nanotube> soultcer: so what was fahadsadah complaining about :)
346 2010-10-12 13:21:57 <soultcer> hm...
347 2010-10-12 13:21:59 <fahadsadah> nanotube, soultcer: A bunch of ops here aren't in ChanServ.
348 2010-10-12 13:22:22 <soultcer> They better not disconnect then
349 2010-10-12 13:27:50 <MartinW> Awesome. I have my first 10 bitcoins.
350 2010-10-12 13:28:37 <nathan7> :o
351 2010-10-12 13:28:39 <nathan7> From where?
352 2010-10-12 13:28:51 <nathan7> soultcer: heh
353 2010-10-12 13:28:55 <nathan7> soultcer: ..I know you
354 2010-10-12 13:28:56 <MartinW> nathan7, Mt. Gox.
355 2010-10-12 13:29:11 <nathan7> soultcer: ..oh, you're from #tahoe-lafs p
356 2010-10-12 13:29:14 <nathan7> *=p
357 2010-10-12 13:29:16 <nathan7> MartinW: :o
358 2010-10-12 13:29:49 <MartinW> nathan7, why :o?
359 2010-10-12 13:29:59 <nathan7> just :o
360 2010-10-12 13:30:06 <MartinW> But why?
361 2010-10-12 13:30:14 <MartinW> I exchanged currency for bitcoins on an exchange site?
362 2010-10-12 13:30:27 <MartinW> (Just before the whole paypal issue)
363 2010-10-12 13:30:40 <nathan7> I never bought bitcoins =p
364 2010-10-12 13:30:46 <nathan7> I generated them when they were still cheap
365 2010-10-12 13:30:51 <nathan7> I had like 700 bitcoins
366 2010-10-12 13:30:52 <MartinW> Ah, lucky.
367 2010-10-12 13:31:03 <nathan7> And I sold them when they got expensive
368 2010-10-12 13:31:04 <MartinW> I have hardware straight out of the third world. Not good for generation.
369 2010-10-12 13:31:08 <nathan7> heh, mine too
370 2010-10-12 13:31:25 <nathan7> I have access to a fast dualcore machine one day a week though
371 2010-10-12 13:31:26 <nathan7> :>
372 2010-10-12 13:31:41 <MartinW> I'm still pondering getting my college's computers to generate at night.
373 2010-10-12 13:31:44 <nathan7> I generated like 200
374 2010-10-12 13:31:47 <MartinW> That's a pretty decent amount of computer power there.
375 2010-10-12 13:31:57 <MartinW> (60 cheap dual cores)
376 2010-10-12 13:32:02 <nathan7> And I sold niekie cookies when he came over, for 500 bitcoins
377 2010-10-12 13:32:10 <nathan7> That was like $2 back then
378 2010-10-12 13:32:21 <nathan7> My granny baked cookies specially for that =p
379 2010-10-12 13:32:38 <MartinW> Well, yay for growth.
380 2010-10-12 13:32:39 <MartinW> And deflation.,
381 2010-10-12 13:33:01 <MartinW> In 2 years time I'll be like you. "I bought bitcoins when they were still worth less than a dollar!".
382 2010-10-12 13:33:20 <nathan7> =p
383 2010-10-12 13:33:40 <nathan7> I'll be telling my grandchildren someday "In my day, you could still *generate* bitcoins.."
384 2010-10-12 13:33:50 <nanotube> haha
385 2010-10-12 13:34:00 <nathan7> I've got more time to go than you oldies =p
386 2010-10-12 13:34:20 <jackmcbarn> why do bitcoins generate slower over time anyway?
387 2010-10-12 13:34:36 <MartinW> jackmcbarn, more people competing for the same amount of coins.
388 2010-10-12 13:34:38 <nathan7> Because the difficulty increases
389 2010-10-12 13:34:44 <niekie> Because of assholes with GPUs.
390 2010-10-12 13:34:47 <niekie> :-P
391 2010-10-12 13:34:49 <edcba> lol
392 2010-10-12 13:34:59 <nanotube> because total amount is supposed to asymptotically approach 21m coins
393 2010-10-12 13:35:06 <jackmcbarn> why?
394 2010-10-12 13:35:10 <MartinW> Wait until the guys with botnets make an entrance.
395 2010-10-12 13:35:16 <MartinW> Then we'll think back fondly on the GPU days.
396 2010-10-12 13:35:23 <nathan7> :o
397 2010-10-12 13:35:32 <nathan7> niekie: You were one of those assholes ;)
398 2010-10-12 13:35:38 <niekie> nathan7: hush.
399 2010-10-12 13:35:42 <nanotube> heh, yea, millions of botnet nodes all running gens... that ought to shake things up.
400 2010-10-12 13:35:53 <nathan7> and I am one of the assholes who made a profit out of it
401 2010-10-12 13:35:56 <MartinW> I tried to be one, but my graphic card is too ancient to work with OpenCL or CUDA.
402 2010-10-12 13:35:59 <nathan7> by selling his granny's cookies
403 2010-10-12 13:36:04 <niekie> We're all shitheads. :(
404 2010-10-12 13:36:08 <jackmcbarn> what i'm asking is why we don't want the number of bitcoins to grow infinitely
405 2010-10-12 13:36:21 <MartinW> Hey, does anyone want to be my referral for that bitcoins ponzie scheme thingy?
406 2010-10-12 13:36:22 <nathan7> jackmcbarn: because that causes inflation?
407 2010-10-12 13:36:26 <MartinW> *ponzi
408 2010-10-12 13:36:29 <nathan7> ooh, a bitcoin ponzi scheme
409 2010-10-12 13:36:37 <nathan7> at least you won't get caught
410 2010-10-12 13:36:43 <nathan7> I just don't have money
411 2010-10-12 13:36:44 <MartinW> nathan7, it's not illegal to join a ponzi scheme.
412 2010-10-12 13:36:45 <nanotube> MartinW: hey, i'll be your referral if you be my referral :)
413 2010-10-12 13:36:57 <nanotube> heh
414 2010-10-12 13:37:04 <nathan7> no bitcoins and no real life money
415 2010-10-12 13:37:11 <nanotube> jackmcbarn: because inflation sucks ass? :)
416 2010-10-12 13:37:21 <jackmcbarn> eventually, with loss of private keys and other things, won't all bitcoins eventually disappear?
417 2010-10-12 13:37:27 <MartinW> I always thought deflation would be worse until recently.
418 2010-10-12 13:37:34 <MartinW> When I learned about the difference between monetary and price inflation.
419 2010-10-12 13:37:59 <MartinW> jackmcbarn, if people lose their bitcoins there are so less, so more valuable, so people take better care of them.
420 2010-10-12 13:38:04 <nanotube> jackmcbarn: yes some bitcoins will disappear... i guess that problem can be dealt with when it comes around. or we can just increase the amount of decimal-place-divisibility for each coin, etc.
421 2010-10-12 13:38:29 <nanotube> probably will wait until year 2100 to deal with that hehe
422 2010-10-12 13:38:42 <MartinW> I wonder if ancient bitcoins, like the first generated will become collector's pieces.
423 2010-10-12 13:38:55 <nathan7> lol
424 2010-10-12 13:38:56 <MartinW> It shouldn't be too hard to sort of track the path one takes.
425 2010-10-12 13:38:59 <nanotube> haha people collect the weirdest things.
426 2010-10-12 13:39:07 <nanotube> everything's possible
427 2010-10-12 13:39:10 <MartinW> Old coins are pretty normal as things go.
428 2010-10-12 13:39:30 <nanotube> true guess it's not such a great leap from coins to bitcoins :)
429 2010-10-12 13:42:01 <nanotube> MartinW: difference between monetary and price inflation <-- there is a difference? one is a direct result of the other...
430 2010-10-12 13:42:19 <MartinW> Did I misread?
431 2010-10-12 13:46:23 <MartinW> If there's no difference, won't bitcoins cause a deflationary spiral then?
432 2010-10-12 13:51:32 <nanotube> no more so than the existence of any other asset whose value increases over time. e.g.... price of land has historically only gone up, since there's a fixed and limited supply
433 2010-10-12 13:52:10 <nanotube> so you might ask, won't people just put all their savings into land, rather than spending money "in the economy"? clearly, that does not occur
434 2010-10-12 13:53:57 <nanotube> bitcoin is just another asset with total supply limited by construction. some people will use it for investment purposes... but at the end of the day, everyone needs to consume whatever is necessary for the purposes of living a nice life (food, sweet sweet internet, etc)
435 2010-10-12 13:55:02 <nanotube> anyway, i'm no expert macroeconomist :) so don't take my explanations for authoritative truth. you'll find many people forecasting the "deflationary spiral" for bitcoin due to the fixed total supply.
436 2010-10-12 13:55:30 <nathan7> nanotube: bitcoin is a microeconomy though =p
437 2010-10-12 13:56:12 <nanotube> nathan7: haha yes, for now :)
438 2010-10-12 14:16:03 <Diablo-D3> hey ArtForz
439 2010-10-12 14:16:13 <Diablo-D3> http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121388
440 2010-10-12 14:16:18 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they're doing it wrong.
441 2010-10-12 14:16:22 <Diablo-D3> m0mchil: HEY
442 2010-10-12 14:16:27 <Diablo-D3> m0mchil: where have you been
443 2010-10-12 14:16:53 <m0mchil> I am about to leave again so speak on :)
444 2010-10-12 14:48:16 <jackmcbarn> land can't disappear through carelessness though
445 2010-10-12 14:48:56 <Diablo-D3> jackmcbarn: the concrete lake.
446 2010-10-12 14:49:00 <Diablo-D3> so technically you're wrong.
447 2010-10-12 14:55:00 <ArtForz> assus ares = bling card
448 2010-10-12 14:58:53 <ArtForz> sapphire toxic hd5970 4gb is clocked at 900 core/1200 mem and they do that with a reference PCB and a AC accelero 5970 cooler
449 2010-10-12 15:01:26 <ArtForz> okay, not quite reference
450 2010-10-12 15:02:00 <ArtForz> it actually has dual 8-pin connectors and 4 vcore phases per gpu
451 2010-10-12 15:03:17 <ArtForz> reference cards have the pads for the 2nd 8pin and the 4th vcore phase, they're just not populated
452 2010-10-12 15:27:22 <nathan7> ArtForz: :o
453 2010-10-12 15:27:24 <nathan7> ArtForz: nice
454 2010-10-12 15:30:27 <ArtForz> it appears pretty much every 5970 can hit 850/1200 at 1.1625v vcore
455 2010-10-12 15:31:35 <ArtForz> sure, the 3-phase VRMs will run quite hot unless you have fan > 70% or find some other means to provide enough airflow
456 2010-10-12 15:32:55 <ArtForz> but then, it's a $599 card vs. a $999 one
457 2010-10-12 15:35:15 <nathan7> ArtForz: that's not affordable for a mere mortal like me =p
458 2010-10-12 15:36:10 <ArtForz> check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYSSnqpchaw
459 2010-10-12 15:37:03 <ArtForz> How the fuck did they get fglrx to recognize more than 4 GPUs?
460 2010-10-12 15:38:24 <nathan7> :o
461 2010-10-12 15:39:27 <ArtForz> also, FAIL on temps of the cards in the middle
462 2010-10-12 15:39:32 <nathan7> :o
463 2010-10-12 15:39:35 <nathan7> they warm?
464 2010-10-12 15:39:54 <ArtForz> 98???C
465 2010-10-12 15:40:03 <nathan7> hmm
466 2010-10-12 15:40:07 <ArtForz> = they're most liklely already throttling
467 2010-10-12 15:40:12 <nathan7> nice to keep your pizza warm.
468 2010-10-12 15:41:10 <ArtForz> oh, and FAIL on PSU selection
469 2010-10-12 15:41:51 <nathan7> hmm
470 2010-10-12 15:42:05 <ArtForz> a antec quattro 1200W for quad 5970s? thats *barely* enough with the cards @ stock and nothing else
471 2010-10-12 15:43:02 <nathan7> /away food
472 2010-10-12 15:56:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: still, its fucking nuts
473 2010-10-12 15:56:47 <ArtForz> actually... I think I have the parts around to 1-up that guy
474 2010-10-12 15:57:11 <Diablo-D3> trubritar has it reviewed
475 2010-10-12 15:57:23 <ArtForz> no, I mean the quad 5970 setup :P
476 2010-10-12 15:57:33 <Diablo-D3> yes, but it wont work =P
477 2010-10-12 15:57:40 <Diablo-D3> Im just saying, he reviewed that insane asus card
478 2010-10-12 15:57:41 <ArtForz> it does, check the vid
479 2010-10-12 15:57:52 <ArtForz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYSSnqpchaw
480 2010-10-12 15:58:06 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYPxM0yUcpg
481 2010-10-12 15:58:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: also, I thought you couldnt connect >4 together?
482 2010-10-12 15:58:31 <ArtForz> notice it's shoing temps for 8 GPUs
483 2010-10-12 15:58:34 <ArtForz> exactly
484 2010-10-12 15:58:53 <ArtForz> that vid is only a few days old... are there any new fglrx beta drivers out?
485 2010-10-12 15:59:07 <Diablo-D3> 10.10 is shipping soon
486 2010-10-12 15:59:54 <Diablo-D3> is this on ubuntu?
487 2010-10-12 15:59:59 <ArtForz> looks like it
488 2010-10-12 15:59:59 <Diablo-D3> because they have early access to 10.10 beta
489 2010-10-12 16:00:12 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu is the only distro that gets early access to cat releases
490 2010-10-12 16:00:47 <ArtForz> hrrrm
491 2010-10-12 16:00:56 <ArtForz> because hardware wise, his setup sucks
492 2010-10-12 16:01:06 <Diablo-D3> 10.10 should come out before the 20th
493 2010-10-12 16:01:37 <Diablo-D3> the "big" change is the runtime libs for stream sdk should ship with the drivers
494 2010-10-12 16:01:40 <Diablo-D3> ie, opencl by default
495 2010-10-12 16:02:13 <ArtForz> replace the antec 1200 with decent 850W+750W, add a high powered fan to get the middle card temps down
496 2010-10-12 16:02:26 <Diablo-D3> there are no more decent
497 2010-10-12 16:02:33 <Diablo-D3> see the new pc power silencers?
498 2010-10-12 16:02:36 <Diablo-D3> they're fucking shit.
499 2010-10-12 16:03:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, that asus cards... COMES IN A FUCKING HARD CASE
500 2010-10-12 16:03:40 <ArtForz> I know
501 2010-10-12 16:03:45 <Diablo-D3> thats just ffffffff
502 2010-10-12 16:03:47 <ArtForz> like I said, bling card
503 2010-10-12 16:03:52 <Diablo-D3> I mean, who has a dick that tiny
504 2010-10-12 16:03:54 <Diablo-D3> thats insane
505 2010-10-12 16:04:07 <ArtForz> sapphire toxic 5970 4gb has 900MHz core and is $999
506 2010-10-12 16:04:28 <Diablo-D3> why the hell is it internally vented though
507 2010-10-12 16:04:53 <ArtForz> the ares or the sapphire?
508 2010-10-12 16:05:16 <Diablo-D3> ares
509 2010-10-12 16:05:22 <Diablo-D3> or really, any of these cards
510 2010-10-12 16:05:24 <Diablo-D3> its double wide
511 2010-10-12 16:05:57 <ArtForz> probably because external venting really doesn't help much
512 2010-10-12 16:06:17 <Diablo-D3> it "helps" in the sense you're not shoving hot air into the case
513 2010-10-12 16:06:21 <Diablo-D3> on mine, it wouldnt actually matter
514 2010-10-12 16:06:29 <Diablo-D3> the heat would be shoved out of the case by force
515 2010-10-12 16:06:37 <ArtForz> exactly
516 2010-10-12 16:06:38 <Diablo-D3> front case fan blows straight into the video card
517 2010-10-12 16:06:47 <Diablo-D3> and my case has empty slot guards with vent holes
518 2010-10-12 16:07:07 <ArtForz> and the problem is you really can't have a external venting design without sacrificing cooler fin area
519 2010-10-12 16:07:14 <Diablo-D3> well no
520 2010-10-12 16:07:20 <Diablo-D3> they could have triple wide cards.
521 2010-10-12 16:07:27 <ArtForz> they already are triple wide ...
522 2010-10-12 16:07:36 <Diablo-D3> lame then
523 2010-10-12 16:07:48 <Diablo-D3> mines triple wide after third party hs, and I dont have problems
524 2010-10-12 16:07:49 <Diablo-D3> then again
525 2010-10-12 16:07:55 <Diablo-D3> mine is one of the ones that bend over the card
526 2010-10-12 16:08:57 <ArtForz> hrrrm
527 2010-10-12 16:09:09 <Diablo-D3> http://thermalright.com/products/index.php?act=data&cat_id=30&id=111
528 2010-10-12 16:09:10 <Diablo-D3> see the third pic
529 2010-10-12 16:09:19 <Diablo-D3> its also designed to go OVER the card
530 2010-10-12 16:09:23 <Diablo-D3> with the bent heatpipes
531 2010-10-12 16:09:31 <Diablo-D3> the contact pad is polished on both sides
532 2010-10-12 16:09:46 <ArtForz> yeah
533 2010-10-12 16:10:05 <ArtForz> nice idea, except pretty much useless if you plan on having more than 1 card
534 2010-10-12 16:10:19 <Diablo-D3> its shoved right into the airflow path of my CPU heatsink
535 2010-10-12 16:10:22 <Diablo-D3> which vents out the top of my case
536 2010-10-12 16:10:44 <ArtForz> unless you have a fucking huge case or a really weird slot layout
537 2010-10-12 16:10:57 <ArtForz> hrrrm, I wonder if a AC accelero 5970 without the fans would still occupy 3 slots...
538 2010-10-12 16:11:01 <Diablo-D3> so its bottom of case -> video card -> heatsink -> heatsink -> 120mm fan -> gap -> 120mm fan -> top case vent
539 2010-10-12 16:11:03 <Diablo-D3> and btw
540 2010-10-12 16:11:07 <Diablo-D3> you can use it the way in the photo
541 2010-10-12 16:11:13 <Diablo-D3> one pointed one way, one pointed the other
542 2010-10-12 16:11:18 <Diablo-D3> Ive seen people do that with this
543 2010-10-12 16:11:20 <Diablo-D3> its just kinda dumb
544 2010-10-12 16:11:33 <Diablo-D3> the whole point is to use it this way to have a single cooling stack
545 2010-10-12 16:11:50 <Diablo-D3> I have an antec p180b case, btw
546 2010-10-12 16:11:54 <ArtForz> http://www.arctic-cooling.com/catalog/images/gallery/5970_05l.jpg
547 2010-10-12 16:12:08 <Diablo-D3> ffffffffwhat
548 2010-10-12 16:13:19 <ArtForz> 8 heatpipes, 3 92mm fans, 3-slot design
549 2010-10-12 16:13:38 <Diablo-D3> thats insane
550 2010-10-12 16:13:43 <ArtForz> yep
551 2010-10-12 16:14:40 <ArtForz> oh, and at 100% it's less noisy than the stock 5970 HSF @ 30% ...
552 2010-10-12 16:14:50 <Diablo-D3> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermalright/HR-03Plus/3.html
553 2010-10-12 16:14:54 <Diablo-D3> thats a bunch of better photos
554 2010-10-12 16:15:08 <Diablo-D3> mines a tad bigger than that one though
555 2010-10-12 16:15:16 <Diablo-D3> they have a bunch of versions of the same heatsinks
556 2010-10-12 16:15:18 <ArtForz> yep
557 2010-10-12 16:15:25 <Diablo-D3> mine fits a 120mm fan fine
558 2010-10-12 16:16:00 <Diablo-D3> http://thermalright.com/products/index.php?act=data&cat_id=24&id=147
559 2010-10-12 16:16:02 <Diablo-D3> thats the cpu fan
560 2010-10-12 16:16:07 <Diablo-D3> and they fit together almost perfectly
561 2010-10-12 16:16:13 <Diablo-D3> like, just a quarter of an inch clearence between the two
562 2010-10-12 16:16:31 <Diablo-D3> and the 120mm on the opposite side pulls the air through both
563 2010-10-12 16:16:54 <Diablo-D3> and then blows it out the top of my case
564 2010-10-12 16:17:10 <Diablo-D3> that cpu heatsink can be oriented in either side blow hole or top blow hole direction
565 2010-10-12 16:17:17 <nanotube> ArtForz: 100% less noisy == makes absolutely zero sound... is that really true? :)
566 2010-10-12 16:17:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: my case with this config is basically silent
567 2010-10-12 16:17:37 <ArtForz> nanotube: parse error, read again
568 2010-10-12 16:17:37 <Diablo-D3> and its great
569 2010-10-12 16:18:01 <Diablo-D3> Im going to miss this heatsink when I get a new card
570 2010-10-12 16:18:23 <jgarzik> anybody know of a service that permits free incoming phone calls (PSTN)?
571 2010-10-12 16:18:26 <ArtForz> with the fans at 100% it's less noisy than the stock HSF with the fans at 30%
572 2010-10-12 16:18:39 <Diablo-D3> heh
573 2010-10-12 16:18:45 <Diablo-D3> fan noise is almost purely the fucking fan itself
574 2010-10-12 16:18:53 <ArtForz> yep
575 2010-10-12 16:19:01 <Diablo-D3> put a good fan on, there goes most of your noise
576 2010-10-12 16:19:08 <nanotube> ArtForz: haha yea, parse error indeed. sorry about that. :)
577 2010-10-12 16:19:14 <Diablo-D3> http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/002/sflex_detail.html
578 2010-10-12 16:19:20 <Diablo-D3> I have a bunch of the 1600rpm ones
579 2010-10-12 16:19:24 <nanotube> jgarzik: google voice maybe?
580 2010-10-12 16:19:45 <Diablo-D3> one in the front, one in the back (goes where the PSU is in normal cases), one on the heatsink stack, blows into the one on the top blow hole
581 2010-10-12 16:19:48 <jgarzik> hmmmmm
582 2010-10-12 16:19:53 <Diablo-D3> and then one in the lower drive cage/psu chamber
583 2010-10-12 16:19:57 <Diablo-D3> which blows into the psu
584 2010-10-12 16:20:02 <jgarzik> nanotube: might be an interesting possibility
585 2010-10-12 16:20:17 <ArtForz> btw, imo scythe = teh suck
586 2010-10-12 16:20:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the s-flex are one of the best fans out
587 2010-10-12 16:20:36 <Diablo-D3> theres like 3 fans that get to claim to be the best
588 2010-10-12 16:21:09 <Diablo-D3> btw, this built is meant to be silent, not fast
589 2010-10-12 16:21:17 <Diablo-D3> I could get some 6000rpm 120mm fans
590 2010-10-12 16:21:19 <Diablo-D3> but thats absurd
591 2010-10-12 16:21:25 <nanotube> jgarzik: :)
592 2010-10-12 16:21:32 <Diablo-D3> I'd have icicles hanging off the cpu heatsink
593 2010-10-12 16:21:45 <ArtForz> 2 out of 3 slip stream fans DOA
594 2010-10-12 16:21:57 <Diablo-D3> I havent had one die yet.
595 2010-10-12 16:22:05 <Diablo-D3> and Im only speaking for the s-flex fans
596 2010-10-12 16:22:06 <ArtForz> s-flex developed bearing noise after 3 months
597 2010-10-12 16:22:10 <Diablo-D3> I have no clue about the rest
598 2010-10-12 16:22:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, I usually undervolt mine to 5 volts too
599 2010-10-12 16:22:43 <Diablo-D3> I only turn them up during the 2 hottest months of the summer
600 2010-10-12 16:22:44 <bonsaikitten> Papst ftw
601 2010-10-12 16:23:34 <ArtForz> yep, papst makes some really nice silent fans too
602 2010-10-12 16:23:57 <bonsaikitten> a bit on the expensive side, but worth it imo
603 2010-10-12 16:24:22 <Diablo-D3> still
604 2010-10-12 16:24:24 <ArtForz> well, as long as you get the units w/ ball bearings ;)
605 2010-10-12 16:24:30 <Diablo-D3> I think I went overboard on making mine silent
606 2010-10-12 16:24:59 <ArtForz> oh, and I think papst is the only company making 120mm fans w/ >100W 3-phase BLDC motors
607 2010-10-12 16:26:15 <ArtForz> basically a pretty standard 120mm x 38mm fan with a really high powered brushless DC motor
608 2010-10-12 16:26:25 <ArtForz> afair 11kRPM or so
609 2010-10-12 16:26:47 <Diablo-D3> yeah jesus christ
610 2010-10-12 16:27:19 <ArtForz> well, its a good way to fix small cooling problems in a industrial setting
611 2010-10-12 16:29:02 <Diablo-D3> its probably loud as fuck
612 2010-10-12 16:29:06 <ArtForz> yep
613 2010-10-12 16:29:11 <ArtForz> sounds like a vacuum cleaner
614 2010-10-12 16:29:11 <Diablo-D3> yeah Im going for silence here
615 2010-10-12 16:29:30 <Diablo-D3> with my fans all turned down to 5v, I sometimes cant even hear it
616 2010-10-12 16:30:21 <ArtForz> but it nicely cools a industrial switchmode welder ;)
617 2010-10-12 16:30:55 <Diablo-D3> heee
618 2010-10-12 16:31:03 <ArtForz> stupid thing kept overheating with the stock 30W AC fan
619 2010-10-12 16:31:50 <ArtForz> one of the the smaller brothers of that papst (~60W) fixed that for good
620 2010-10-12 16:33:32 <ArtForz> and yeah, with a decent case layout you can get even a upper mainstream system near-silent
621 2010-10-12 16:34:32 <ArtForz> beyond that watercooling w/ external rad is pretty much the only option to get the noise down
622 2010-10-12 16:35:34 <ArtForz> anyways, I'm still wondering if that accelero 5970 cooler without the fans+shroud could fit in a 2-slot spacing
623 2010-10-12 16:36:04 <Diablo-D3> well, Im very much interested in those new 6000 series
624 2010-10-12 16:37:08 <ArtForz> interested, yes, but imo barts won't be THAT interesting
625 2010-10-12 16:37:36 <Diablo-D3> I have a 4850
626 2010-10-12 16:37:56 <nathan7> hehehe, I'm so evil :D
627 2010-10-12 16:38:10 <ArtForz> well, okay, a 5750 would run circles around that
628 2010-10-12 16:38:38 <Diablo-D3> I didnt get a 5850 to replace it due to the extreme cost
629 2010-10-12 16:38:47 <Diablo-D3> so maybe a 6750 would be worth it
630 2010-10-12 16:38:55 <ArtForz> 5750
631 2010-10-12 16:39:18 <nathan7> How the bloody hell do I use bitcoind?
632 2010-10-12 16:39:20 <ArtForz> they're like $110 and <90W
633 2010-10-12 16:39:54 <nathan7> oh hey, a wiki
634 2010-10-12 16:39:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes,but a 5750 isnt different, in 3D terms, from my 4850
635 2010-10-12 16:40:02 <Diablo-D3> they score similarly
636 2010-10-12 16:40:03 <ArtForz> still about on par with a 4850 for gaming
637 2010-10-12 16:40:17 <Diablo-D3> and if a 6650 comes out, it'll be in line
638 2010-10-12 16:40:24 <ArtForz> true
639 2010-10-12 16:40:36 <Diablo-D3> nathan7: btw, bitcoind itself is also a bitcoind client
640 2010-10-12 16:40:51 <Diablo-D3> nathan7: ie, bitcoind getinfo does what you expect
641 2010-10-12 16:41:05 <nathan7> Diablo-D3: mhm
642 2010-10-12 16:41:26 <nathan7> I just want to run bitcoin making me rich on my mom's laptop in the background
643 2010-10-12 16:41:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so, if I upgrade, its going to be at least a 6750
644 2010-10-12 16:41:36 <Diablo-D3> nathan7: dont
645 2010-10-12 16:41:40 <Diablo-D3> laptops have shit cooling
646 2010-10-12 16:41:40 <nathan7> Diablo-D3: why not?
647 2010-10-12 16:41:44 <nathan7> So?
648 2010-10-12 16:41:52 <Diablo-D3> so you'll potentially kill it.
649 2010-10-12 16:41:56 <nathan7> the thing fries itself fine when she uses it
650 2010-10-12 16:41:59 <Diablo-D3> and your mom will potentially kill you.
651 2010-10-12 16:42:02 <nathan7> on windows, that is
652 2010-10-12 16:42:04 <ArtForz> for gaming my current 5xxx series are fine, so only thing I'd like with 6xxx is btter perf/W and perf/$ for bitcoin mining
653 2010-10-12 16:42:06 <nathan7> the laptop is basically dead
654 2010-10-12 16:42:16 <nathan7> okay?
655 2010-10-12 16:42:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, I want something that has unlimited 3D power
656 2010-10-12 16:42:31 <Diablo-D3> but I cant afford that :<
657 2010-10-12 16:43:47 <ArtForz> I'll prolly replace the quad 5770s with quad 6xxx
658 2010-10-12 16:44:11 <nathan7> :>
659 2010-10-12 16:46:06 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you could give me a 5770 then :<
660 2010-10-12 16:46:12 <Diablo-D3> it'd more than double my mhash rate
661 2010-10-12 16:46:44 <ArtForz> well, I have a few gaming boxes with 4xxx cards that could use dual 5770s
662 2010-10-12 16:47:16 <Diablo-D3> heeehhh
663 2010-10-12 16:47:28 <ArtForz> that'd be the first time one of my gaming boxes actually gets a hand-me-down GPU from the bitcoin miners
664 2010-10-12 16:48:11 <Diablo-D3> Ill buy a 6000 then
665 2010-10-12 16:48:14 <Diablo-D3> and then in the far future
666 2010-10-12 16:48:16 <Diablo-D3> a 8000
667 2010-10-12 16:48:16 <nanotube> nathan7: try bitcoind -help for list of options. basically... you probably want 'bitcoind -daemon' to start it in background for mining.
668 2010-10-12 16:48:24 <ArtForz> well, except for those f*ing overheating 5770s
669 2010-10-12 16:48:39 <nathan7> nanotube: I thought just running it daemon'd it?
670 2010-10-12 16:48:51 <Diablo-D3> running bitcoind with no args daemonizes it
671 2010-10-12 16:48:57 <nanotube> nathan7: that said... you probably won't be generating much on an old laptop anyway. like, maybe 100days average to gen a block...
672 2010-10-12 16:49:03 <nathan7> nanotube: who cares
673 2010-10-12 16:49:04 <nathan7> [ "$COMMAND" = "start" ]&&HOME=/home/nathan/ sudo -u nathan /home/nathan/bitcoin-0.3.13/bin/32/bitcoind -gen
674 2010-10-12 16:49:15 <nanotube> heh
675 2010-10-12 16:49:19 <ArtForz> btw, the 5770s that overheated w/ the bitalign kernel also overheat in furmark :/
676 2010-10-12 16:49:19 <Diablo-D3> you dont need to pass gen either if you've already turned gen on
677 2010-10-12 16:49:19 <nathan7> is what I added to the gdm init.d script
678 2010-10-12 16:49:25 <Diablo-D3> ie, bitcoind setgenerate true
679 2010-10-12 16:49:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ffffffffff
680 2010-10-12 16:49:48 <ArtForz> so the design simply sucks
681 2010-10-12 16:50:02 <nathan7> Can the bitcoin windows client run in the background?
682 2010-10-12 16:50:08 <nathan7> I have a pretty powerful windows machine I admin
683 2010-10-12 16:50:14 <ArtForz> lesson learned: don't buy suspiciously cheap non-reference cards
684 2010-10-12 16:51:07 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heeee
685 2010-10-12 16:51:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I like reference cards just for the reason third party heatsinks stick to them
686 2010-10-12 16:51:27 <Diablo-D3> cant overheat something with 2 pounds of aluminum stuck to it
687 2010-10-12 16:51:37 <Diablo-D3> and if you can, this is why god invented copper.
688 2010-10-12 16:51:49 <ArtForz> http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?leg=&psn=000101&pid=341 <- these
689 2010-10-12 16:52:00 <Diablo-D3> you shouldnt have issues with sapphire
690 2010-10-12 16:52:04 <nanotube> nathan7: don't have windows... but i understand you can run bitcoind in the background just like on lin...
691 2010-10-12 16:52:08 <Diablo-D3> they're the company that used to make ATI-branded cards
692 2010-10-12 16:52:15 <Diablo-D3> and produce all of ATI's reference boards
693 2010-10-12 16:52:23 <Diablo-D3> as in, actually fab them
694 2010-10-12 16:52:26 <nathan7> nanotube: Yeah, I never run windows on the box
695 2010-10-12 16:52:30 <ArtForz> yea
696 2010-10-12 16:52:36 <Diablo-D3> never tried a non-reference sapphire board though
697 2010-10-12 16:52:44 <nathan7> it's just that the normal user (my granddad) always boots windows
698 2010-10-12 16:52:56 <ArtForz> they're the cheapest 5770s arund
699 2010-10-12 16:53:11 <ArtForz> and the cooler on em fucking sucks
700 2010-10-12 16:53:15 <nathan7> I'd love to be able to share the .bitcoin between OSes
701 2010-10-12 16:53:17 <Diablo-D3> coolers, generally, suck
702 2010-10-12 16:53:22 <nanotube> nathan7: set him up with a windows-themed linux hehe ;)
703 2010-10-12 16:53:24 <Diablo-D3> every ref cooler ever has been shit, period
704 2010-10-12 16:53:28 <nanotube> he'll never know the difference
705 2010-10-12 16:53:29 <ArtForz> no, they usually blow :P
706 2010-10-12 16:53:35 <Diablo-D3> if you're running 24/7 fuck you shit, replace the cooler
707 2010-10-12 16:53:44 <nathan7> I might fix up his dualboot again someday
708 2010-10-12 16:54:22 <ArtForz> well, the ref cooler on the 5850 was decent
709 2010-10-12 16:54:30 <nanotube> nathan7: haha yea, "dual boot". grub list: [windows] (really goes to a win-themed linux) [linux] (also goes to linux)
710 2010-10-12 16:54:38 <Diablo-D3> heh
711 2010-10-12 16:54:42 <Diablo-D3> dual boot for me is
712 2010-10-12 16:54:44 <Diablo-D3> booting linux
713 2010-10-12 16:54:52 <Diablo-D3> and then booting windows in vbox, while still in linux
714 2010-10-12 16:54:59 <ArtForz> err, the "v2" ref cooler on the 5850
715 2010-10-12 16:55:08 <nathan7> nanotube: He likes linux
716 2010-10-12 16:55:17 <nathan7> I just need to fix up the dualboot
717 2010-10-12 16:57:06 <ArtForz> nope, it was the plain reference cooler
718 2010-10-12 16:57:47 <ArtForz> of course the 5850 ref cooler is nearly identical to the 5870, just shorter
719 2010-10-12 16:58:19 <ArtForz> but afair it has the same size fin array as the 5870
720 2010-10-12 16:58:46 <ArtForz> so oyu have a cooler designed for a 190W card on a 150W card
721 2010-10-12 16:59:10 <ArtForz> never seen one go >50% fan speed
722 2010-10-12 17:09:15 <Diablo-D3> there is no such thing as overkill, only open fire and I need to reload
723 2010-10-12 17:10:34 <nathan7> :>
724 2010-10-12 17:10:45 <nathan7> Diablo-D3: you're the kind of person I like
725 2010-10-12 18:01:29 <Keefe> who here has bought BTC with LR via BCM?
726 2010-10-12 18:02:47 <Keefe> does the trade notification email specifically mention the 1% transaction fee that the recipient is charged by LR but that the buyer should cover per BCM policy?
727 2010-10-12 18:04:18 <lfm> recipient of LR? buyer of LR?
728 2010-10-12 18:05:33 <Keefe> i received LR from the BTC buyer. a 1% fee was deducted by liberty reserve. that's standard
729 2010-10-12 18:06:04 <Keefe> per BCM policy, the BTC buyer was supposed to send 1% more that the trade amount to cover that fee
730 2010-10-12 18:06:19 <Keefe> more than*
731 2010-10-12 18:07:10 <Keefe> so i'm just wondering if the BTC buyer was supposed to have read and remembered that policy, or whether he was reminded in the email saying the trade happened
732 2010-10-12 18:10:24 <lfm> or if you misunderstood the policy or someone else doesnt understant it
733 2010-10-12 18:12:22 <Keefe> it's not a big deal. just 41 cents. just learning what to expect in the future for larger trades
734 2010-10-12 18:12:30 <Keefe> 41 cents fee i mean
735 2010-10-12 18:13:07 <Keefe> i did email BCM. was just wondering what others here have experienced when buying BTC with LR at BCM
736 2010-10-12 18:18:14 <Keefe> someone at mtgox is trying to sell $5363 MTG-USD for BTC at 0.092
737 2010-10-12 18:19:19 <Keefe> that's quite a lot of $ at risk
738 2010-10-12 18:20:14 <Kiba> mtgox is awfully taking al ong time
739 2010-10-12 18:20:21 <Kiba> s/al ong/a long
740 2010-10-12 18:20:27 <Kiba> to set up their payment processor
741 2010-10-12 18:21:10 <Kiba> well, it is not mtgox move fast in development
742 2010-10-12 18:21:26 <kencausey> Keefe: ask dwdollar
743 2010-10-12 18:21:31 <Keefe> there's almost $5000 of asks
744 2010-10-12 18:22:43 <Keefe> so there's that much demand for MTG-USD, which means they trust that mtgox will eventually get back on track
745 2010-10-12 18:23:19 <Kiba> bitcoins are so damn...expensive
746 2010-10-12 18:24:51 <Keefe> or they're just betting that they can turn around and trade back to BTC at a lower rate
747 2010-10-12 18:26:00 <Keefe> i refer to USD at mtgox as MTG-USD because it's currently not backed by real USD. it's like its own currency
748 2010-10-12 18:26:33 <Kiba> can't be circulated anywhere
749 2010-10-12 18:26:57 <Keefe> if/when it's possible to withdraw USD from mtgox again, then i'll consider it to be real USD again
750 2010-10-12 18:28:10 <Kiba> liquidity total stop :(
751 2010-10-12 18:32:01 <Keefe> ugh, libertyreserve.com's clock is UTC+2
752 2010-10-12 18:32:33 <Keefe> i hate sites that make the visitor guess what timezone is used
753 2010-10-12 18:32:48 <Keefe> especially when they use a timezone that doesn't make sense
754 2010-10-12 18:33:31 <Keefe> UTC makes sense. visitor's local time makes sense. Costa Rica time would make sense since that's where they're based AFAIK. but UTC+2??
755 2010-10-12 18:35:40 <nanotube> Keefe: iirc, there's no pre-calculated amount to send. buyer is supposed to do his own "amount/.99" and calculate the amount to send you, so that you end up with the correct net amount.
756 2010-10-12 18:36:17 <nanotube> i remember mentioning to dwdollar that this should be precalculated for the buyer to reduce ambiguity... but guess he hasn't gotten around to that.
757 2010-10-12 18:36:44 <nanotube> that, or just change the policy to match that of LR, namely, LR receiver eats fee.
758 2010-10-12 18:37:31 <dwdollar> Yeah, i'm lazy. :)  I've been spending all my time on the new version.
759 2010-10-12 18:37:31 <Keefe> does his emails at least mention that the fee should be covered by the buyer, even if the details aren't given?
760 2010-10-12 18:37:45 <Keefe> hi dwdollar :)
761 2010-10-12 18:38:07 <dwdollar> Keefe:  I sent the buyer an email.  He is a regular LR trader.  He probably forget the trans. fee.
762 2010-10-12 18:38:22 <nanotube> dwdollar: ooh there's a new version eh? :)
763 2010-10-12 18:38:23 <Keefe> yeah, i wouldn't mind if the policy stated that the seller eats the fee. then i'd simply expect it or raise my ask price
764 2010-10-12 18:38:52 <nanotube> dwdollar: might be simpler for all concerned to just change policy to match that of LR itself. then you don't have to give it any thought at all.
765 2010-10-12 18:38:56 <Keefe> thanks
766 2010-10-12 18:42:45 <dwdollar> nanotube:  Yep.  I decided to scrap the old and start over.  I want to offer both instant and escrow trading.
767 2010-10-12 18:43:36 <Keefe> what would instant mean? like mtgox, where the exchange holds both currencies?
768 2010-10-12 18:43:43 <dwdollar> yes
769 2010-10-12 18:43:44 <nanotube> dwdollar: i presume that won't be available with paypal, to avoid mtgox-style problems?
770 2010-10-12 18:44:25 <Keefe> mtgox-style trading with LR <-> BTC would be very nice
771 2010-10-12 18:44:37 <dwdollar> no, instant trades will stay away from PayPal, but I can have other processors.
772 2010-10-12 18:44:49 <dwdollar> Yes, I want to have instant LR
773 2010-10-12 18:44:55 <nanotube> ic cool
774 2010-10-12 18:45:04 <Keefe> i'm avoiding paypal now for all bitcoin trading
775 2010-10-12 18:46:18 <nanotube> dwdollar: i guess you can do instant with any non-chargeback-able methods
776 2010-10-12 18:46:28 <Keefe> so unfortunately, when mtgox gets withdrawals working, i'm taking my usd out and doing most trading at BCM with LR
777 2010-10-12 18:48:05 <dwdollar> I'd like to have a rating system up and running too.  To help guard against chargebacks.
778 2010-10-12 18:48:28 <dwdollar> This is a big project.  It's going to take some time.
779 2010-10-12 18:49:22 <Keefe> dwdollar: thanks for your contribution to the bitcoin community :D
780 2010-10-12 18:49:53 <dwdollar> :)
781 2010-10-12 18:50:04 <dwdollar> I will have to have fees with this one though.
782 2010-10-12 18:50:31 <Keefe> it will be worth it
783 2010-10-12 18:52:18 <nanotube> dwdollar: what are your thoughts on the fee structure?
784 2010-10-12 18:54:56 <dwdollar> I'm thinking .5% -1% per trade and per transfer, but I haven't decided yet.
785 2010-10-12 18:55:44 <Kiba> what is dwdollar doing?
786 2010-10-12 18:56:34 <dwdollar> Kiba:  I guess I'm officially announcing plans for a new exchange.:-D
787 2010-10-12 18:57:05 <nanotube> heh
788 2010-10-12 18:57:36 <Kiba> dwdollar: you will be providing a more liquid form of exchange?
789 2010-10-12 18:59:00 <dwdollar> Yes, I'm going to try both instant and escrow trading.
790 2010-10-12 18:59:14 <dwdollar> mesh it together into one platform
791 2010-10-12 18:59:30 <Kiba> hmm, mtgox is going to get some serious competition
792 2010-10-12 19:00:58 <Kiba> hmm
793 2010-10-12 19:02:57 <Kiba> my bitcoin client is saying that I should check if my date and clock are accurate
794 2010-10-12 19:03:39 <Kiba> but the warning is not going away
795 2010-10-12 19:04:36 <nanotube> is your date and clock actually accurate? :)
796 2010-10-12 19:04:43 <Netsniper> mine is complaining that i'm generating enough coins to run it on a better system than it is currently running on
797 2010-10-12 19:05:14 <nanotube> haha
798 2010-10-12 19:05:31 <Netsniper> yeah, elitist software
799 2010-10-12 19:05:34 <Netsniper> what next?
800 2010-10-12 19:05:41 <nanotube> maybe you should mollify it by sending me some of those coins. :P
801 2010-10-12 19:05:53 <nanotube> maybe a gribble ,,botsnack :)
802 2010-10-12 19:06:01 <nanotube> ,,(botsnack)
803 2010-10-12 19:06:02 <gribble> Why not send me some bitcoins instead, to this address: 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
804 2010-10-12 19:06:03 <nanotube> heh
805 2010-10-12 19:06:35 <Kiba> nanotube: I believe so
806 2010-10-12 19:06:53 <Kiba> how long does it take for a confirmation to get through?
807 2010-10-12 19:07:00 <Kiba> I have like 3 unconfirmed
808 2010-10-12 19:07:07 <Kiba> two of them from 0.3.10.1
809 2010-10-12 19:07:12 <nanotube> Kiba: it shows 'confirmed' after 6
810 2010-10-12 19:07:32 <nanotube> Kiba: or... you mean you have 0/conf transactions that are not getting any confirmations?
811 2010-10-12 19:07:37 <Kiba> yup
812 2010-10-12 19:07:53 <Kiba> a new one was the stuff I sent to mtgox
813 2010-10-12 19:08:09 <nanotube> Kiba: those are probably poisoned by the no-tx-fee microtransactions bug... which client are you running now?
814 2010-10-12 19:08:13 <nanotube> (version, that is)
815 2010-10-12 19:08:30 <Kiba> I ran 3.13
816 2010-10-12 19:08:38 <Kiba> the other two were 3.10.1
817 2010-10-12 19:09:22 <nanotube> well, the other two you can probably forget about forever... the one you just sent to mtgox... if you sent it with the .13 client, should get confed when the block chain extends.
818 2010-10-12 19:11:51 <Kiba> they are really old anyway
819 2010-10-12 19:11:54 <Kiba> but lesson learned
820 2010-10-12 19:12:11 <Kiba> still saying warning about clocks
821 2010-10-12 19:12:14 <Kiba> should I be worried?
822 2010-10-12 19:15:18 <Kiba> http://gist.github.com/622936
823 2010-10-12 19:15:20 <Kiba> hmm
824 2010-10-12 19:15:24 <Kiba> accidently pasted a log
825 2010-10-12 19:15:26 <Kiba> whoops
826 2010-10-12 19:16:14 <Kiba> deleted it
827 2010-10-12 19:46:12 <jrabbit> http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/12/technology/wepay/index.htm whats this about?
828 2010-10-12 19:47:00 <Kiba> WE PAY
829 2010-10-12 19:47:04 <Kiba> Gottach that?
830 2010-10-12 19:47:41 <echelon> paypal social networking
831 2010-10-12 19:47:53 <jrabbit> oh
832 2010-10-12 19:47:55 <jrabbit> thats dumb
833 2010-10-12 19:47:55 <Kiba> me think not paypal?
834 2010-10-12 19:48:07 <jrabbit> i thoguht it was an atempt to bet the shit out of paypal
835 2010-10-12 19:48:18 <jrabbit> you don't need a killer feature
836 2010-10-12 19:48:19 <jrabbit> paypal SUCKS
837 2010-10-12 19:48:43 <Kiba> paypal should die
838 2010-10-12 19:49:22 <echelon> ya
839 2010-10-12 19:49:50 <Kiba> DIE DIE DIE DIE
840 2010-10-12 19:52:43 <Kiba> well
841 2010-10-12 19:52:50 <Kiba> it seem that there are no confirmation going through
842 2010-10-12 19:52:54 <Kiba> I think my clock is a bit off
843 2010-10-12 19:55:44 <Keefe> dwdollar: is it possible to see my transaction history at BCM beyond the last 10?
844 2010-10-12 19:56:44 <Xunie> I'm not much of a book reader, but I finished this 136 pages book in one sitting, except for a food and "real life bothered me" break.
845 2010-10-12 19:57:19 <Xunie> Everyone who's interested in bitcoin, should atleast be interested a tiny bit in this book: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/about/
846 2010-10-12 19:58:52 <Xunie> (Note: It's only 136 pages long, and free for download! :D )
847 2010-10-12 20:00:36 <Kiba> Xunie: I been meaning to finish the Diamond Age
848 2010-10-12 20:07:44 <Xunie> Hmm, only 455/512 pages, Give me 72 hours and I'll have it finished. :P
849 2010-10-12 20:09:23 <Xunie> Double spending requires significant CPU time, right?
850 2010-10-12 20:10:01 <Xunie> Like, a botnet the size of half the network, right?
851 2010-10-12 20:10:11 <Kiba> no
852 2010-10-12 20:10:21 <Kiba> I htink it have to be bigger than the entire legit network
853 2010-10-12 20:17:29 <Teppy1> Greetings. Planning the next play session for Dragon's Tale, either tomorrow afternoon or Thursday afternoon - anyone here interested in either time? I've had some ATITD people play, but none from the Bitcoin community since the early demo.
854 2010-10-12 20:18:01 <AAA_awright> ATITD?
855 2010-10-12 20:18:14 <Teppy1> A Tale in the Desert, my other game.
856 2010-10-12 20:18:20 <AAA_awright> Ah
857 2010-10-12 20:40:28 <Kiba> hmm
858 2010-10-12 20:40:33 <Kiba> my clock is out of sync
859 2010-10-12 20:51:10 <Teppy1> Who admins the forums? We should sticky an "I want to buy Bitcoins" thread for direct trades until the exchanges get things sorted out.
860 2010-10-12 21:10:55 <puddinpop> How many people do you think would be interested in pooled mining?
861 2010-10-12 21:17:47 <Keefe> i was considering setting up such a service, but have been too busy to finish it
862 2010-10-12 21:18:42 <puddinpop> Well I've worked on something most of the weekend and part of yesterday and today.  I've been testing the past few hours, and it's working pretty well.
863 2010-10-12 21:19:30 <puddinpop> Hopefull I can release something tomorrow
864 2010-10-12 21:19:51 <Keefe> even i might be willing to use your service if it's free to me and if i can see the source
865 2010-10-12 21:20:11 <puddinpop> I won't be running a server, but anyone else can
866 2010-10-12 21:24:20 <puddinpop> What's the maximum accepted size of a block?
867 2010-10-12 21:28:55 <Keefe> no idea. i only studied the miner code enough to figure out how to hack in my gpu miner
868 2010-10-12 21:52:23 <Xunie> ;cg
869 2010-10-12 21:52:38 <Xunie> What happened to bitbot or what ever the name of the bot was?
870 2010-10-12 21:52:54 <kencausey> it's been away for a while now
871 2010-10-12 21:58:02 <noagendamarket> bitbot was moving house
872 2010-10-12 23:02:04 <khaos> hi all
873 2010-10-12 23:02:35 <khaos> anyone on here?
874 2010-10-12 23:05:26 <Netsniper> not i
875 2010-10-12 23:05:41 <khaos> awh man
876 2010-10-12 23:05:46 <Kiba> hi
877 2010-10-12 23:05:55 <khaos> howdy
878 2010-10-12 23:06:07 <Kiba> welcome to the bitcoin channel
879 2010-10-12 23:06:12 <Kiba> where we talk about..um...
880 2010-10-12 23:06:13 <Kiba> bitcoin
881 2010-10-12 23:06:37 <khaos> well i have a game dev question not code more like uh.. game structure?
882 2010-10-12 23:07:18 <Kiba> this is the wrong channel
883 2010-10-12 23:07:23 <khaos> bahhh
884 2010-10-12 23:07:31 <khaos> thats why i went to gamedev first -_-
885 2010-10-12 23:07:50 <Kiba> gamedev is a place to dedicated to the development of games that use bitcoin
886 2010-10-12 23:08:13 <Kiba> here we talk about various stuff related to bitcoins, a cryptocurrency
887 2010-10-12 23:08:30 <khaos> oh well then i was misinformed
888 2010-10-12 23:08:31 <khaos> sorry
889 2010-10-12 23:09:25 <khaos> thanks for ur help though
890 2010-10-12 23:29:34 <Netsniper> adam annoys me
891 2010-10-12 23:29:38 <Netsniper> abut john is cool
892 2010-10-12 23:29:48 <Kiba> who is adam and john?
893 2010-10-12 23:29:50 <Kiba> generic names
894 2010-10-12 23:29:53 <Kiba> not useful
895 2010-10-12 23:30:32 <Netsniper> No Agenda | With Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak | In The Morning
896 2010-10-12 23:39:40 <noagendamarket> John is ok:)