1 2010-10-21 00:44:25 <jgarzik> apparently someone surfed to the Bitcoin Store, after googling from "bitcoin rubbish"
   2 2010-10-21 00:44:40 <Diablo-D3> truth in advertising
   3 2010-10-21 00:46:54 <Kiba> bitcoin rubbish?
   4 2010-10-21 00:52:12 <Teppy> jgarzik: POsted something for you in the listtransactions patch thread - does what I'm asking for make sense?
   5 2010-10-21 00:52:45 <jgarzik> Teppy: I think comment is in the wallet, I'd have to check
   6 2010-10-21 00:52:57 <ArtForz> it is
   7 2010-10-21 00:53:22 <Teppy> Philosophically does it make sense?
   8 2010-10-21 00:53:51 <Teppy> (IOW, is doing that an ugly hack?)
   9 2010-10-21 00:55:00 <appamatto> any working USD bitcoin exchanges other than mtgox?  Can't get liqpay SMS to work
  10 2010-10-21 00:55:04 <ArtForz> I don't really see a much better way if your internal payout DB might rollback
  11 2010-10-21 00:55:47 <Kiba> ;math calc 5000 * 0.0097
  12 2010-10-21 00:56:05 <Kiba> ;;math calc 5000 * 0.0097
  13 2010-10-21 00:56:06 <gribble> 48.5
  14 2010-10-21 00:56:24 <gribble> 485
  15 2010-10-21 00:56:24 <Kiba> ;;math calc 5000 * 0.097
  16 2010-10-21 00:56:26 <Kiba> wow
  17 2010-10-21 00:56:38 <Kiba> torserve recevied that much money
  18 2010-10-21 00:57:36 <ArtForz> comment should be stored as tx "message"
  19 2010-10-21 00:58:12 <ArtForz> errr, tx MapValue "message"
  20 2010-10-21 01:00:52 <nanotube> appamatto: try #bitcoin-otc maybe :)
  21 2010-10-21 01:01:25 <ArtForz> mapValue appears to be a simple string:string map... so maybe make it accessible in general as name=value pairs?
  22 2010-10-21 01:02:34 <ArtForz> a list of (name, value) items or something similar would be fine as well I guess
  23 2010-10-21 01:04:14 <Netsniper> are bitcoins a good way to attact the opposite sex?
  24 2010-10-21 01:04:35 <Netsniper> theres an "r" missing there somewhere
  25 2010-10-21 01:05:18 <Kiba> no, Netsniper
  26 2010-10-21 01:05:29 <Netsniper> ok :(
  27 2010-10-21 01:05:43 <ArtForz> ... or a k mistyped as t ...
  28 2010-10-21 01:05:50 <Kiba> I am so............tired
  29 2010-10-21 01:08:45 <ArtForz> 20 blocks to next diff, estimated 2151.4
  30 2010-10-21 02:05:28 <forthright> util.h line 481... why compute the hash of the hash?
  31 2010-10-21 02:11:20 <ArtForz> because that's how satoshi rolls ;)
  32 2010-10-21 02:12:26 <Kiba> Satoshi, who has been hand off in the burgenoning economy, like a taoist master
  33 2010-10-21 02:12:39 <ArtForz> hash-of-hash is used quite extensively in bitcoin
  34 2010-10-21 02:12:39 <Kiba> burgenoning bitcoin economy...
  35 2010-10-21 02:13:27 <forthright> whats to gain by hashing a hash?
  36 2010-10-21 02:13:28 <ArtForz> my personal fav. is the merkle tree
  37 2010-10-21 02:15:46 <ArtForz> 1-item merkle tree: sha256(sha256(item))
  38 2010-10-21 02:17:00 <ArtForz> 14 sha256 hashes to hash 3 items
  39 2010-10-21 02:17:29 <forthright> why not... sha256(item1.item2.item3)?
  40 2010-10-21 02:19:01 <ArtForz> good question, especially as all that hash tree is ever used for appears to be getting a "master hash" of transactions in a block
  41 2010-10-21 02:20:41 <root> ;estimate
  42 2010-10-21 02:20:43 <bitbot> root: LastDiff(8d 22:45:37 ago)  ExpBlocks(1288)  ActualBlocks(2005)  TrgNewDiffDate(2010/10/26 05:35:05 GMT)  EstNewDiffDate(2010/10/21 05:31:23 GMT)  EstNewDiff(2145.14546382)
  43 2010-10-21 02:23:16 <forthright> would it be insane to rewrite bitcoin in c#?
  44 2010-10-21 02:25:28 <ArtForz> not really
  45 2010-10-21 02:25:59 <Netsniper> how about qbasic?
  46 2010-10-21 02:26:15 <ArtForz> yes really
  47 2010-10-21 02:27:04 <forthright> I can't say I like it how difficult it is to compile bitcoin on windows... so I was thinking about writing it in c# : O
  48 2010-10-21 02:35:55 <Kiba> MOUTHWATERING FRIED RICES
  49 2010-10-21 02:36:00 <Kiba> YUM
  50 2010-10-21 02:54:05 <appamatto> hey guys
  51 2010-10-21 02:54:09 <Kiba> hello
  52 2010-10-21 02:54:18 <noagendamarket> hey
  53 2010-10-21 02:54:20 <appamatto> so does anyone have a Windows GPU binary?
  54 2010-10-21 02:54:23 <echelon> hi
  55 2010-10-21 02:54:39 <appamatto> couldn't find one in the thread linked in the topic
  56 2010-10-21 02:55:35 <appamatto> or is this a taboo subject? :p
  57 2010-10-21 02:56:10 <doublec> hi appamatto
  58 2010-10-21 02:56:15 <appamatto> hey doublec :p
  59 2010-10-21 02:56:38 <forthright> I tried to make a binary and failed.  I'm able to generate hashes with my GPU, but I can't get bitcoin to compile.
  60 2010-10-21 02:56:59 <doublec> cuda or opencl compatible card appamatto?
  61 2010-10-21 02:57:42 <appamatto> looks like cuda
  62 2010-10-21 02:57:44 <appamatto> GTX 460
  63 2010-10-21 02:57:46 <doublec> ie. do you have an ATI or a NVIDIA
  64 2010-10-21 02:57:58 <appamatto> nvidia
  65 2010-10-21 02:58:18 <doublec> this will do it: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
  66 2010-10-21 02:58:21 <bitbot> Pooled/Remote Mining
  67 2010-10-21 02:58:26 <doublec> windows binaries in first comment
  68 2010-10-21 02:58:49 <doublec> pass the -gpu switch to bitcoin when running it
  69 2010-10-21 02:59:10 <doublec> ignore the pooled stuff if you're not interested in that
  70 2010-10-21 03:03:42 <appamatto> 56M/sec
  71 2010-10-21 03:03:47 <appamatto> thanks :)
  72 2010-10-21 03:03:53 <appamatto> pooled sounds nice.
  73 2010-10-21 03:04:26 <ArtForz> 56M/s ... about as fast as a HD5570
  74 2010-10-21 03:04:35 <appamatto> Is that fast? :p
  75 2010-10-21 03:04:44 <appamatto> It says 336 cuda cores
  76 2010-10-21 03:04:51 <ArtForz> 5570 is a $75 card ...
  77 2010-10-21 03:05:00 <appamatto> ah, this was $160 I think
  78 2010-10-21 03:05:23 <appamatto> Is there a separate option for pooled generation?
  79 2010-10-21 03:05:29 <forthright> My intel I7 does 4M/s.
  80 2010-10-21 03:06:47 <ArtForz> next (crrent) difficulty 2149.0
  81 2010-10-21 03:06:50 <doublec> appamatto, yes you run bitcoind as a server
  82 2010-10-21 03:06:57 <doublec> appamatto, then run remote-miner instances to connect to it
  83 2010-10-21 03:07:20 <doublec> so: ./bitcoind -server -remote-server
  84 2010-10-21 03:07:31 <appamatto> gotcha
  85 2010-10-21 03:07:37 <doublec> and: remote-miner -server my.ip.add.r -address send-money-here
  86 2010-10-21 03:08:33 <doublec> 56M/sec at the current difficulty will generate a block on average 1 day 5 hours
  87 2010-10-21 03:08:41 <appamatto> oh man
  88 2010-10-21 03:08:48 <appamatto> If it doesn't fry my GPU first
  89 2010-10-21 03:09:05 <doublec> compared to my 34 days :)
  90 2010-10-21 03:09:08 <appamatto> haha
  91 2010-10-21 03:09:22 <ArtForz> nope
  92 2010-10-21 03:09:28 <doublec> no?
  93 2010-10-21 03:09:35 <ArtForz> 1day 21h
  94 2010-10-21 03:09:42 <doublec> oh, difficulty going up?
  95 2010-10-21 03:09:52 <ArtForz> difficulty change this block
  96 2010-10-21 03:09:55 <doublec> ok
  97 2010-10-21 03:10:01 <appamatto> Is there a spike of activity?
  98 2010-10-21 03:10:01 <ArtForz> from 1378.0 to 2149.0
  99 2010-10-21 03:10:08 <doublec> nice jump
 100 2010-10-21 03:10:18 <appamatto> Can't decide if it's good or bad
 101 2010-10-21 03:10:18 <ArtForz> yup, close to +56%
 102 2010-10-21 03:10:27 <doublec> appamatto, probably people discovering gpu clients
 103 2010-10-21 03:10:28 <appamatto> that it's so difficult to generate these already
 104 2010-10-21 03:10:55 <appamatto> I want to be able to tell my grandchildren that I generated a bitcoin before it becomes like winning the lottery
 105 2010-10-21 03:11:07 <appamatto> err, I guess it will become impossible first :p
 106 2010-10-21 03:11:30 <ArtForz> unlikely
 107 2010-10-21 03:11:48 <forthright> You will generate one be patient : P
 108 2010-10-21 03:12:56 <ArtForz> not to mention if bitcoin prices sty constant difficulty should start levelling off around 7k
 109 2010-10-21 03:15:49 <ArtForz> unless people keep running GPU clients at a loss
 110 2010-10-21 03:18:21 <appamatto> ArtForz, read on the forum that you had some large percentage of generation at some point
 111 2010-10-21 03:26:56 <appamatto> I wonder if in the future collectors will want coins that originated in early blocks
 112 2010-10-21 03:27:19 <appamatto> I should start an exchange for that
 113 2010-10-21 03:31:25 <noagendamarket> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1419.140  theres a few payment methods I added here
 114 2010-10-21 03:31:27 <bitbot> paypal dropped mtgox
 115 2010-10-21 03:34:29 <ne0futur> the -remoteserver  option is available in the default bitcoind ?
 116 2010-10-21 03:34:48 <doublec> ne0futur, no, in the pooled client from the forums
 117 2010-10-21 03:35:04 <ne0futur> ( 0.3.13 ) oe I d need to get something else / more , svn version . . .  ?
 118 2010-10-21 03:35:21 <ne0futur> bitcoind --help dont dhow the option
 119 2010-10-21 03:35:29 <doublec> ne0futur, binaries and source here https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
 120 2010-10-21 03:35:33 <bitbot> Pooled/Remote Mining
 121 2010-10-21 03:35:34 <ne0futur> ok I was reading https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
 122 2010-10-21 03:35:37 <bitbot> Pooled/Remote Mining
 123 2010-10-21 03:35:58 <ne0futur> Pooled Miner Server/Client source based on SVN 167
 124 2010-10-21 03:36:03 <ne0futur> ok i just missed that
 125 2010-10-21 03:36:33 <ne0futur> where is the svn hosted ?
 126 2010-10-21 03:36:55 <doublec> soruceforge
 127 2010-10-21 03:37:15 <doublec> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/develop
 128 2010-10-21 03:37:19 <ne0futur> ok got it
 129 2010-10-21 03:37:39 <doublec> I ran the pooled miner for a few days as a test. It worked quite well.
 130 2010-10-21 03:37:45 <doublec> had up to 10 clients connected
 131 2010-10-21 03:37:49 <ne0futur> so its in the main code, it should be i a next stable version of bitsoin
 132 2010-10-21 03:37:56 <doublec> no, it's not in the main code
 133 2010-10-21 03:38:02 <doublec> it's in the link in that forum post
 134 2010-10-21 03:38:39 <ne0futur> ok, Pooled Miner Server/Client source based on SVN 167 is some kinf of fork
 135 2010-10-21 03:38:51 <doublec> yes
 136 2010-10-21 03:39:12 <nathan7> It's my birthday :D
 137 2010-10-21 03:39:17 <appamatto> happy birthday
 138 2010-10-21 03:39:20 <doublec> happy birthday!
 139 2010-10-21 03:39:23 <ne0futur> i ll wait a little to test this
 140 2010-10-21 03:39:23 <noagendamarket> woot
 141 2010-10-21 03:39:34 <ne0futur> happy bday !
 142 2010-10-21 03:39:54 <doublec> building it is a pain
 143 2010-10-21 03:39:59 <doublec> not that the standard client is any easier
 144 2010-10-21 03:40:10 <doublec> but the pooled client using a cmake system and I had to tweak it for linux
 145 2010-10-21 03:41:13 <ne0futur> but with time there are chances the option is added in the main server code ?
 146 2010-10-21 03:41:34 <doublec> I don't know
 147 2010-10-21 03:41:46 <doublec> I believe the author of the remote stuff has made those changes GPL so they'd need to be relicensed
 148 2010-10-21 04:39:02 <jgarzik> SVN r169: validateaddress RPC command
 149 2010-10-21 04:39:29 <genjix> everyday I check the value of $ <-> BTC
 150 2010-10-21 04:40:03 <genjix> and it seems the number of btc for $1 drops by 0.5 btc
 151 2010-10-21 04:40:19 <genjix> isn't that too fast?
 152 2010-10-21 04:40:42 <Kiba> which market?
 153 2010-10-21 04:41:07 <genjix> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
 154 2010-10-21 04:42:00 <genjix> heh, it looks like there's been a recent boom in btc
 155 2010-10-21 04:42:01 <genjix> https://www.bitcoinmarket.com/
 156 2010-10-21 04:42:07 <Kiba> oh
 157 2010-10-21 04:42:09 <Kiba> don't know
 158 2010-10-21 04:43:06 <jgarzik> BCM is catching up to mtgox
 159 2010-10-21 04:44:36 <genjix> is mtgox and BCM the 2 reliable traders?
 160 2010-10-21 04:44:41 <Kiba> I have not been watching the depth market much lately, but I thought...
 161 2010-10-21 04:44:53 <Kiba> mtgox and BCM are not traders
 162 2010-10-21 04:44:56 <Kiba> but intermediaries
 163 2010-10-21 04:45:16 <Kiba> I thought the bids are going up in mtgox
 164 2010-10-21 04:45:28 <genjix> oh i see
 165 2010-10-21 04:46:17 <genjix> aha, if you zoom in on the chart
 166 2010-10-21 04:46:29 <genjix> there was a sudden jump around the time of /.
 167 2010-10-21 04:47:13 <Kiba> so slashdot is still useful in this world
 168 2010-10-21 04:47:29 <Kiba> for some reason, it never attract much attention from Hacker News
 169 2010-10-21 04:47:33 <genjix> actually no
 170 2010-10-21 04:47:36 <genjix> its not /.
 171 2010-10-21 04:48:01 <genjix> well something around Oct 5 made BCM jump up to a new level
 172 2010-10-21 04:48:10 <genjix> and stay there
 173 2010-10-21 04:48:37 <Kiba> if the trend for mtgox and bcm continue, than we may see a new high at 0.01x
 174 2010-10-21 04:49:09 <Kiba> err
 175 2010-10-21 04:49:20 <Kiba> a new stability..thought undoubtly change
 176 2010-10-21 05:14:46 <bitbot> lfm: CurrentBlockCount( 86,698 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 2,149.0218149500 ) NextDifficultyAt( 88,704 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 2,006 blocks )
 177 2010-10-21 05:14:46 <lfm> ;nr
 178 2010-10-21 05:15:05 <bitbot> Kiba: Mt. Gox: Last(0.0971) High(0.103) Low(0.096) BestSellPrice(0.097) BestBuyPrice(0.1) Volume(26608)
 179 2010-10-21 05:15:05 <Kiba> ;mtgox
 180 2010-10-21 05:15:19 <lfm> good jump in difficulty there
 181 2010-10-21 05:35:02 <genjix> ;bcm
 182 2010-10-21 05:35:04 <bitbot> genjix: Bitcoin Market: Bid(0.068) Ask(0.068) Last(0.0635) High(0.092) Low(0.09) Volume(800)
 183 2010-10-21 08:44:18 <genjix> ;bcm
 184 2010-10-21 08:44:20 <bitbot> genjix: Bitcoin Market: Bid(0.068) Ask(0.068) Last(0.0635) High(0.092) Low(0.09) Volume(800)
 185 2010-10-21 08:58:02 <doublec> genjix, wasn't 5 oct around the time of the fraud issues?
 186 2010-10-21 08:58:17 <genjix> which fraud issues?
 187 2010-10-21 08:58:35 <genjix> i didnt know about bitcoin until a week ago :p
 188 2010-10-21 08:58:42 <doublec> genjix, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1399.0
 189 2010-10-21 08:58:45 <bitbot> ===>>>BCM SCAM ALERT<<<===
 190 2010-10-21 08:58:59 <doublec> genjix, also https://buybitcoins.com/
 191 2010-10-21 08:59:03 <doublec> read what's left of that site
 192 2010-10-21 08:59:43 <doublec> also about that time mtgox got dropped by paypal
 193 2010-10-21 08:59:49 <genjix> ok and for you http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4117/screengc.jpg
 194 2010-10-21 08:59:53 <doublec> it was a fun week
 195 2010-10-21 09:00:10 <doublec> genjix, nice!
 196 2010-10-21 09:03:07 <kencausey> It's still an open question to what extent the run up at mtgox was due to the fraud then the paypal block.
 197 2010-10-21 09:03:52 <kencausey> I haven't been paying close attention the last couple of days, I assume mtgox has liqpay or some solution implemented now but I see the price is still more or less around 0.10
 198 2010-10-21 09:06:09 <kencausey> regarding mtgox adding paypal for withdrawals only, is it possible paypal doesn't want him to be an active customer at all?
 199 2010-10-21 09:06:20 <kencausey> s/active //
 200 2010-10-21 09:07:21 <doublec> kencausey, true. I meant more that the mtgox situation added to the bcm and buybitcoin issues made it a interesting week than the mtgox issue was fraud
 201 2010-10-21 09:08:15 <doublec> kencausey, I'm not sure about the paypal status. afaik it's they've still got the account closed so withdrawal support would be difficult
 202 2010-10-21 09:08:17 <kencausey> sure, I don't disagree
 203 2010-10-21 09:09:07 <kencausey> My focus tends to be rather mtgox specific since it is the only BTC service I use at this point.
 204 2010-10-21 09:11:43 <doublec> It's the only one I've used too
 205 2010-10-21 09:11:56 <doublec> oh, except buybitcoins when it worked
 206 2010-10-21 09:20:18 <noagendamarket> Mt Gox should offer to build exchange sites and host them for people who have paypal accounts for a cut of the action or a monthly fee.
 207 2010-10-21 09:20:38 <noagendamarket> that would cover his hosting costs and allow him to profit :)
 208 2010-10-21 09:20:58 <noagendamarket> it woul;d also decentralise the exchanges
 209 2010-10-21 09:21:10 <doublec> heh, good idea
 210 2010-10-21 09:21:57 <noagendamarket> Its an easy solution to the dilemma
 211 2010-10-21 09:58:13 <UukGoblin> well that would just make paypal shut down multiple accounts, not just one
 212 2010-10-21 09:58:17 <UukGoblin> + trust issues would arise
 213 2010-10-21 10:04:10 <noagendamarket> ukgoblin the issue was because of chargebacks. Just sending money from paypal wouldnt be an issue.
 214 2010-10-21 10:05:45 <noagendamarket> The only problem is people buying with paypal not withdrawing it
 215 2010-10-21 10:08:45 <noagendamarket> I see there is a need for paypal withdrawals and I want to fill it.
 216 2010-10-21 10:16:07 <doublec> what is canadian tire money?
 217 2010-10-21 10:16:15 <doublec> is it some sort of company voucher?
 218 2010-10-21 10:27:59 <UukGoblin> oh, m0mchil himself
 219 2010-10-21 10:28:12 <UukGoblin> is that CUDA/OpenCL client ported to linux?
 220 2010-10-21 10:29:01 <m0mchil> python is ported :) I mean, you don't have to port the miner
 221 2010-10-21 10:36:15 <noagendamarket> doublec it is a form of community currency from what I can tell
 222 2010-10-21 10:37:28 <doublec> thanks noagendamarket. interesting that it's so widely accepted.
 223 2010-10-21 10:38:49 <noagendamarket> doublec Ive never heard of it till this week. I guess you have to be there lol
 224 2010-10-21 10:38:54 <UukGoblin> oh, so I should look for the python stuff. cool.
 225 2010-10-21 10:39:08 <noagendamarket> I wonder if the queen carries some in her handbag?
 226 2010-10-21 10:50:37 <AltraMayor> Hi there, is it reasonable to expect to make some bitcoins using the `generate' in bitcoind? I've set up a powerful machine (hashespersec: 13791880) yesterday to see how it goes, and it hasn't make any dime yet. Is it `normal'?
 227 2010-10-21 10:52:56 <m0mchil> AltraMayor, see http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
 228 2010-10-21 10:54:07 <AltraMayor> m0mchil: now I feel `stolen!'
 229 2010-10-21 10:54:13 <m0mchil> with 13 791 khash/s at current difficulty you can expect 10 blocks (500 bitcoins) after 70 days+
 230 2010-10-21 10:54:21 <m0mchil> stolen? why?
 231 2010-10-21 10:54:41 <AltraMayor> The calculator says I'd make coins within 33minutes with 95%.
 232 2010-10-21 10:54:53 <AltraMayor> It has been almost a day now.
 233 2010-10-21 10:55:18 <m0mchil> you should give Khash/s, not hash/s
 234 2010-10-21 10:55:52 <AltraMayor> You're right, thank you very much! Sorry for my mistake.
 235 2010-10-21 10:57:12 <AltraMayor> Am I wrong to think that if I add more machines to collect bitcoins I'd be just adding `Difficulty Factor' and stay at the same place like Alice in wonderland?
 236 2010-10-21 10:59:24 <UukGoblin> yes you're wrong
 237 2010-10-21 10:59:38 <UukGoblin> the more machines you add the higher chance of generating a block you have
 238 2010-10-21 11:02:03 <AltraMayor> But, doesn't it increase the difficulty factor that increases the time?
 239 2010-10-21 11:03:25 <UukGoblin> yes, but the difficulty factor is per-whole-network, so any machines you add increase it only by very little
 240 2010-10-21 11:12:28 <AltraMayor> UukGoblin: is there a way to know how many machines are generating? The largest number of connections I've seen reported by my bitcoind instance was between 50 and 60.
 241 2010-10-21 11:14:52 <gavinandresen> AltraMayor: No, there's no real way of telling how many machines are generating.
 242 2010-10-21 11:15:19 <gavinandresen> AltraMayor:  You can figure out the total hashing power of the network, though.
 243 2010-10-21 11:15:36 <AltraMayor> Using the difficulty factor?
 244 2010-10-21 11:15:43 <gavinandresen> Yup
 245 2010-10-21 11:16:24 <AltraMayor> ganinandresen: is the number of connections somehow capped?
 246 2010-10-21 11:17:08 <AltraMayor> connections between clients
 247 2010-10-21 11:17:26 <UukGoblin> not that I know of, it's just kept at a reasonable level
 248 2010-10-21 11:18:29 <UukGoblin> f...uck... next difficulty estimated at 3089 ALREADY?
 249 2010-10-21 11:18:49 <AltraMayor> Because in my currently limited understanding of how bitcoin works, some nodes can have a significant delay to receive the block that must be hashed.
 250 2010-10-21 11:19:30 <UukGoblin> ~few seconds delay at most imho
 251 2010-10-21 11:22:09 <AltraMayor> UukGoblin: where did you see that number?
 252 2010-10-21 11:23:01 <UukGoblin> at http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/
 253 2010-10-21 11:23:41 <UukGoblin> it's probably a bit off since it's fairly shortly after new difficulty was established
 254 2010-10-21 11:24:17 <AltraMayor> Or someone is mining BTCs. :)
 255 2010-10-21 11:44:41 <gavinandresen> AltraMayor:  MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS is 8, inbound connections is unlimited (I think) unless you specify -maxconnections
 256 2010-10-21 11:46:27 <AltraMayor> Is MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS hardcoded?
 257 2010-10-21 11:47:33 <AltraMayor> Isn't that limit of 8 applied only the GUI bitcoin? I've seen higher number of connections on my bitcoind instance.
 258 2010-10-21 11:51:09 <gavinandresen> Same behavior bitcoin and bitcoind.  You'll see different behavior if you're behind a firewall or not.
 259 2010-10-21 11:51:53 <gavinandresen> (machines behind a firewall will have 8 outward connections, machines not behind a firewall will have 8 out plus N incoming)
 260 2010-10-21 11:53:34 <AltraMayor> That does help to understand the number of connections.
 261 2010-10-21 12:07:21 <Kiba> it seem that the mtgox is recovering?
 262 2010-10-21 12:07:23 <Kiba> ;mtgox
 263 2010-10-21 12:07:33 <Kiba> damn, bitbot left!
 264 2010-10-21 12:07:39 <Kiba> an annoyance, I tell ya!
 265 2010-10-21 12:07:42 <Kiba> AN ANNOYANCE
 266 2010-10-21 12:11:16 <Kiba> 15,000 BTC bid
 267 2010-10-21 12:11:22 <Kiba> for 0.01 each
 268 2010-10-21 12:11:32 <OneFixt> 0.1
 269 2010-10-21 12:11:47 <Kiba> yeah, my mistake
 270 2010-10-21 12:11:52 <Kiba> 150 bucks worth of bitcoins
 271 2010-10-21 12:13:33 <m0mchil> Kiba, 1500
 272 2010-10-21 12:13:56 <OneFixt> I would like to buy bitcoins from Kiba ^_^
 273 2010-10-21 12:14:56 <Kiba> how much?
 274 2010-10-21 12:15:25 <Kiba> I'll be willing to sell you some bitcoins for 0.0107
 275 2010-10-21 12:15:41 <OneFixt> oh I'll take them all
 276 2010-10-21 12:15:42 <Kiba> wait, I don't know know you..so why should I trust you?
 277 2010-10-21 12:16:05 <OneFixt> For that price, I'd send first ;)
 278 2010-10-21 12:16:27 <Kiba> err
 279 2010-10-21 12:16:29 <Kiba> no
 280 2010-10-21 12:16:45 <Kiba> I want 0.107
 281 2010-10-21 12:16:56 <OneFixt> hehe yea, sorry, I was just teasing
 282 2010-10-21 12:20:41 <AltraMayor> Kiba: OneFixt: May I ask what you two do with BTCs?
 283 2010-10-21 12:21:03 <OneFixt> AltraMayor: I buy them.  And sell them.
 284 2010-10-21 12:21:24 <OneFixt> I also like to look at large numbers.
 285 2010-10-21 12:21:53 <Kiba> well, anyway
 286 2010-10-21 12:22:12 <AltraMayor> Do you two have any view of future for BTCs? Or, is it just a hobby?
 287 2010-10-21 12:22:19 <Kiba> I am developing web app to accept bitcoin
 288 2010-10-21 12:22:25 <Kiba> AltraMayor: we're all going to be rich, or fools
 289 2010-10-21 12:22:27 <OneFixt> I do actually, and am developing several services.
 290 2010-10-21 12:22:30 <Kiba> even so, I learn quite a bit
 291 2010-10-21 12:22:41 <Kiba> I got two projects that will accept bitcoin
 292 2010-10-21 12:23:51 <Kiba> YUMMY
 293 2010-10-21 12:24:16 <Kiba> fried rice that I cooked myself
 294 2010-10-21 12:24:27 <AltraMayor> Any of the projects you two are developing involves shipping goods?
 295 2010-10-21 12:24:34 <Kiba> nope.
 296 2010-10-21 12:24:38 <Kiba> don't have the capital
 297 2010-10-21 12:25:08 <Kiba> for example, I want to implement the first factory that accept bitcoins but I don't have 1200 USD laying around
 298 2010-10-21 12:25:32 <Kiba> it's possible to produce lot of stuff in your bedroom nowsday
 299 2010-10-21 12:25:38 <AltraMayor> Kiba: you said you're a currency trader; I've thought you had some capital. :) So, your services exchange something digital for BTCs (also digital)?
 300 2010-10-21 12:25:55 <Kiba> AltraMayor: no, I just spectulate on mtgox
 301 2010-10-21 12:26:34 <Kiba> and I only made like 7 dollars profit
 302 2010-10-21 12:26:40 <Kiba> over the last few months
 303 2010-10-21 12:27:17 <Kiba> but that's only because I only risk 5 bucks
 304 2010-10-21 12:27:20 <AltraMayor> Kiba: that sounds that you can better spend you time, doesn't it?
 305 2010-10-21 12:28:22 <AltraMayor> Kiba: since you're into buy and selling BTCs, what do you feel it's a fair price between BTC and Dollar?
 306 2010-10-21 12:29:11 <Kiba> supply and demand. There is no fair price. Only good deals and bad deals.
 307 2010-10-21 12:32:55 <AltraMayor> Kiba: do you have a clue how much BTC one can buy and for how much Dollars? I've been thinking that to bring people into the system, the exchange has to be simpler, and someone to hold a large amount to do it effectively.
 308 2010-10-21 12:33:29 <AltraMayor> ...someone hast to hold...
 309 2010-10-21 12:36:55 <Kiba> AltraMayor: there is already much liquidity for people on mtgox
 310 2010-10-21 12:37:24 <Kiba> the cost of buying a bitcoin is about 10 cents or so
 311 2010-10-21 12:37:55 <AltraMayor> Kiba: Once in a while I find complains about taking the money out of mtgox.
 312 2010-10-21 12:38:10 <kencausey> if you are willing to be patient and go to some trouble you can probably find a better deal than that
 313 2010-10-21 12:38:17 <kencausey> ;bcm
 314 2010-10-21 12:38:29 <kencausey> and bitbot has abandoned us
 315 2010-10-21 12:38:34 <Kiba> AltraMayor: it's about mtgox experiencing problems with paypal
 316 2010-10-21 12:38:48 <Kiba> before that, it was easy to take money out of mtgox, but some spammers ruin it for the rest of us
 317 2010-10-21 12:39:02 <Kiba> err
 318 2010-10-21 12:39:03 <Kiba> scammers
 319 2010-10-21 12:39:13 <Kiba> but anyway, withdrawal will probably come soon
 320 2010-10-21 12:39:24 <Kiba> it's been a neccesary lesson for all of us
 321 2010-10-21 12:39:38 <Kiba> to experience the paypal horror
 322 2010-10-21 12:40:03 <AltraMayor> Do you think there's a solution to satisfy paypal's demands?
 323 2010-10-21 12:40:09 <Kiba> no.
 324 2010-10-21 12:40:22 <Kiba> paypal is just that bad
 325 2010-10-21 12:40:27 <AltraMayor> Are you thinking about another money transfer option?
 326 2010-10-21 12:40:52 <Kiba> nope. All the other people are thinking about it. I don't have any expertise in the matters
 327 2010-10-21 12:41:32 <AltraMayor> Is a US bank account a valid method to transfer money at mtgox?
 328 2010-10-21 12:42:12 <Kiba> not at this time, no.
 329 2010-10-21 12:42:24 <Kiba> mtgox needs time to implement new payment option
 330 2010-10-21 12:42:31 <Kiba> right now, we can use liqpay
 331 2010-10-21 12:42:53 <Kiba> bitcoin world doesn't quite move as fast as we like
 332 2010-10-21 12:43:43 <AltraMayor> I've never heard of liqpay, is it like paypal?
 333 2010-10-21 12:44:35 <AltraMayor> Perhaps, Kiba, not moving fast is kind of a good thing for now.
 334 2010-10-21 12:44:43 <MacRohard> sortof. but run by ukranian organized crime instead of us organized crime.
 335 2010-10-21 12:46:12 <Guest29097> ok guys
 336 2010-10-21 12:46:33 <Kiba> no, it's essential for the economy to respond to disasters
 337 2010-10-21 12:46:34 <sneak> so i have an idea
 338 2010-10-21 12:46:47 <sneak> one of the biggest problems with bitcoin as i see it is the relatively high barrier to entry to begin using bitcoin day to day
 339 2010-10-21 12:46:52 <sneak> as nobody sane will sell to strangers for paypal
 340 2010-10-21 12:46:55 <Kiba> right now, we have bitcoin-otc which doesn't happen before the paypal fasico
 341 2010-10-21 12:46:58 <sneak> enter facebook
 342 2010-10-21 12:47:06 <sneak> sell bitcoin to people you know for cash
 343 2010-10-21 12:47:09 <sneak> six degrees and all that
 344 2010-10-21 12:47:16 <sneak> i'm making a bitcoin facebook app
 345 2010-10-21 12:47:17 <Kiba> sneak: well, it's a known problem
 346 2010-10-21 12:47:34 <Kiba> there's bounty for a google chrome extension
 347 2010-10-21 12:47:55 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1411.0
 348 2010-10-21 12:47:59 <Kiba> 300 BTC
 349 2010-10-21 12:48:16 <nathan7> :o
 350 2010-10-21 12:48:20 <sneak> i bill more than that for 15 minutes.
 351 2010-10-21 12:48:22 <Kiba> granted, that's only 30 bucks or so
 352 2010-10-21 12:48:22 <sneak> sry
 353 2010-10-21 12:48:24 <MacRohard> sneak, hmm.. that could sortof work
 354 2010-10-21 12:48:37 <Kiba> well, somebody must contribute bounty...
 355 2010-10-21 12:48:42 <sneak> MacRohard: "John Yourfriend has bitcoins for sale!"
 356 2010-10-21 12:48:47 <sneak> in feed
 357 2010-10-21 12:48:57 <MacRohard> but you'd need a chain of people to agree to indemnify their adjacent friends if their other friend defaults
 358 2010-10-21 12:49:01 <sneak> basically buyign bitcoins for cash via your social network, same way ppl buy drugs now
 359 2010-10-21 12:49:09 <MacRohard> but maybe if they were paid a fee they could do it
 360 2010-10-21 12:49:13 <sneak> MacRohard: i'm not talking about paypal
 361 2010-10-21 12:49:20 <sneak> i'm talking about doing offline introductions
 362 2010-10-21 12:49:22 <sneak> for cash exchange
 363 2010-10-21 12:49:27 <MacRohard> sneak, well its' irrelevant what payment method the links in the chain use
 364 2010-10-21 12:49:31 <sneak> well yeah
 365 2010-10-21 12:49:41 <nathan7> I should put some calcium sulfate in a ziploc bag
 366 2010-10-21 12:49:43 <sneak> like you're fine buying coins from your friend for paypal
 367 2010-10-21 12:49:44 <MacRohard> probably alot of them would still use paypal
 368 2010-10-21 12:49:44 <nathan7> and sell it to someone
 369 2010-10-21 12:49:52 <MacRohard> because it's faster than exchanging cash
 370 2010-10-21 12:50:01 <sneak> nathan7: that is illegal
 371 2010-10-21 12:50:03 <MacRohard> and alot of facebook friends probably rarely meet in person
 372 2010-10-21 12:50:11 <sneak> it's illegal to even sell fake drugs that aren't themselves prohibited
 373 2010-10-21 12:50:16 <sneak> if you are selling them as something that _is_ illegal
 374 2010-10-21 12:50:22 <MacRohard> but they're still in a better position to judge their 'friend's credit worthiness than a complete stranger
 375 2010-10-21 12:50:36 <sneak> MacRohard: yes but everyone that meets in person regularly is facebook friends
 376 2010-10-21 12:50:43 <sneak> s/is/are/
 377 2010-10-21 12:50:52 <sneak> also who wants to remember bitcoin addresses
 378 2010-10-21 12:50:56 <nathan7> sneak: lol
 379 2010-10-21 12:50:57 <MacRohard> sure. i just don't see the cash thing as being at all important to this idea
 380 2010-10-21 12:50:59 <sneak> also who wants to sign up for mybitcoin and use their annoying login captcha
 381 2010-10-21 12:51:06 <MacRohard> and it will work better in most cases if they don't use cash
 382 2010-10-21 12:51:09 <nathan7> sneak: or pretend to sell it
 383 2010-10-21 12:51:34 <MacRohard> i mean maybe they just extend each other credit for cash settlement in the future (for example)
 384 2010-10-21 12:51:39 <nathan7> officer cycles by, sees someone exchanging white powder in ziploc bag and money
 385 2010-10-21 12:51:43 <sneak> well however they wanna do it i sfine
 386 2010-10-21 12:51:48 <sneak> i dont' intend to make a trading platform
 387 2010-10-21 12:51:55 <sneak> just a way to send coins to your friends or receive coins
 388 2010-10-21 12:52:12 <MacRohard> well you don't need this idea to send coins
 389 2010-10-21 12:52:16 <MacRohard> you need it to send payment for coins
 390 2010-10-21 12:52:28 <MacRohard> and really you could use it without coisn being involved at all
 391 2010-10-21 12:52:37 <sneak> i have no idea what you're on about
 392 2010-10-21 12:52:38 <sneak> ttyl
 393 2010-10-21 12:52:53 <MacRohard> coin sending is already secure
 394 2010-10-21 12:52:59 <MacRohard> it's the cash sending that is a problem
 395 2010-10-21 12:53:25 <sneak> that's not a problem between friends
 396 2010-10-21 12:53:26 <sneak> even with paypal
 397 2010-10-21 12:53:27 <MacRohard> and if you make a new way to send cash payments then you could use it for things completely unrelated to bitcoin
 398 2010-10-21 12:53:37 <sneak> i'm not going to do that
 399 2010-10-21 12:53:44 <AltraMayor> Being more practical, you guys think that if eone had $10K to buy 100K BTCs, one would fulfill this order in a day? This ideas of selling 10BTCs will take forever to work out.
 400 2010-10-21 12:53:53 <sneak> i'm just going to connect existing friends who wouldn't chargeback each other who want to trade in coins
 401 2010-10-21 12:54:08 <MacRohard> AltraMayor, dunno about 1 day but maybe.
 402 2010-10-21 12:54:16 <sneak> AltraMayor: there are lots of bitcoins for sale for the right price
 403 2010-10-21 12:54:19 <MacRohard> AltraMayor, i'm sure it would fill in a few days
 404 2010-10-21 12:54:42 <MacRohard> and yea if you were willing to bid more than $10k I'm sure it could be filled inside a day
 405 2010-10-21 12:54:56 <sneak> remember that 100k coins is 1/43rd of all bitcoins in the world
 406 2010-10-21 12:55:08 <MacRohard> sneak, it sounds like you are going to do that but probablyyou just don't udnerstand what i mean.
 407 2010-10-21 12:55:24 <sneak> .:16:55:22:. Ignoring ALL from MacRohard
 408 2010-10-21 12:55:49 <MacRohard> well you were anyway so i guses no change really.
 409 2010-10-21 12:55:55 <appamatto> I think the price would change during that purchase
 410 2010-10-21 12:56:12 <appamatto> it might be 15 cents a bitcoin by the time you got halfway through $10k
 411 2010-10-21 12:56:14 <sneak> appamatto: yes, it's called supply and demand
 412 2010-10-21 12:56:35 <appamatto> Probably you won't even find enough sellers
 413 2010-10-21 12:56:45 <AltraMayor> It sounds to me that that BTC has very, very, very low liquidity.
 414 2010-10-21 12:56:54 <sneak> AltraMayor: the market is small right now
 415 2010-10-21 12:57:06 <sneak> there aren't a lot of things you can _do_ with the coins yet.
 416 2010-10-21 12:57:22 <Kiba> 200,000 bitcoins was a record high
 417 2010-10-21 12:57:23 <sneak> it will grow
 418 2010-10-21 12:57:26 <AltraMayor> sneak: that's exactly with I'm concerned, but to grow it'd need a lot of BTCs fast.
 419 2010-10-21 12:57:36 <sneak> AltraMayor: then pay more for them.
 420 2010-10-21 12:57:39 <sneak> what are you intending to do?
 421 2010-10-21 12:57:47 <AltraMayor> sneak: otherwise I wouldn't be able to sell them in lots.
 422 2010-10-21 12:57:48 <Kiba> sneak: well, there was a 200,000 BTC record in one day
 423 2010-10-21 12:58:12 <sneak> AltraMayor: bitcoins are divisible.  you can just sell smaller lots
 424 2010-10-21 12:58:18 <kencausey> Yes, I think if you were willing to pay 0.20 per BTC you could get a quarter million or more
 425 2010-10-21 12:58:19 <sneak> if the demand really is there, you can charge the same for them
 426 2010-10-21 12:58:20 <appamatto> AltraMayor, why would you sell them in lots?  That's one of the advantages of BTC: no transaction fees
 427 2010-10-21 12:58:34 <AltraMayor> I've been thinking how to bring offline uses inside of the network.
 428 2010-10-21 12:58:54 <Kiba> Focus on one idea at a time. Execute. Repeat.
 429 2010-10-21 12:58:58 <appamatto> I had an idea which I think is cool and bitcoin only
 430 2010-10-21 12:59:08 <sneak> AltraMayor: any idea you have can be executed with 1000 coins as easily as 100_000
 431 2010-10-21 12:59:20 <sneak> start small, and, as kiba said, repeat
 432 2010-10-21 12:59:43 <sneak> you will find yourself with a virtually unlimited supply of bitcoins if you are willing to pay whatever they cost
 433 2010-10-21 12:59:54 <sneak> which, if you are making a market, then you should be able to do
 434 2010-10-21 13:00:12 <appamatto> I was thinking of a bitcoin collector's site for people who want early bitcoins
 435 2010-10-21 13:00:26 <Kiba> the speed of your execution + ideas * runaway_success?
 436 2010-10-21 13:00:33 <AltraMayor> sneak: the problem that offline people would prefer an offer that has a more stable exchange rate.
 437 2010-10-21 13:00:45 <sneak> AltraMayor: well that shit just ain't gonna happen until the market is deeper
 438 2010-10-21 13:00:48 <sneak> sry
 439 2010-10-21 13:00:55 <Kiba> you will still need the internet to do bitcoin
 440 2010-10-21 13:01:05 <sneak> Kiba: it can be hooked up to sms or wtf ever tho
 441 2010-10-21 13:01:12 <sneak> and used as a backing store, much like gold certificates etc
 442 2010-10-21 13:01:24 <sneak> he could amass 10k bitcoins then issue 10k bitcoin certificates
 443 2010-10-21 13:01:32 <sneak> those could be exchanged with no internet access
 444 2010-10-21 13:01:37 <sneak> then redeemed with him at a later date
 445 2010-10-21 13:01:40 <Kiba> the internet is pervasive
 446 2010-10-21 13:01:49 <Kiba> the spread of wireless networks
 447 2010-10-21 13:01:52 <sneak> poor blacks buying crack don't have $800 iphones for the most part
 448 2010-10-21 13:01:53 <appamatto> that would be pretty nuts given that 10k bitcoins could be worth major dollars in a few year
 449 2010-10-21 13:02:02 <Kiba> 4G phone network...
 450 2010-10-21 13:02:03 <sneak> appamatto: that presumes a lot
 451 2010-10-21 13:02:14 <sneak> presumes that there will be no unfixable ddos in the bitcoin broadcast network
 452 2010-10-21 13:02:18 <AltraMayor> sneak: college students have iphone and droids.
 453 2010-10-21 13:02:21 <sneak> presumes people will actually use it and trade with it
 454 2010-10-21 13:02:24 <Kiba> sneak: eventually you would have an iphone-equse that are really cheap
 455 2010-10-21 13:02:37 <sneak> presumes that there will be no security issues found rendering the coins worthless/double-spendable
 456 2010-10-21 13:02:53 <appamatto> Well, I think the biggest threat is a rival currency
 457 2010-10-21 13:02:57 <Kiba> we either be fools or rich beyond our range
 458 2010-10-21 13:03:01 <sneak> appamatto: that's not a threat
 459 2010-10-21 13:03:08 <sneak> if a rival currency gets more traction, we just go use that
 460 2010-10-21 13:03:18 <appamatto> right, because there will be a period of time where we can switch for decent rates
 461 2010-10-21 13:03:23 <sneak> bitcoin itself is not our goal, having free decentralized value transactions is our goal
 462 2010-10-21 13:03:32 <appamatto> other attacks don't seem threatening given that everyone has the entire block history
 463 2010-10-21 13:03:41 <sneak> gnutella was first, yet bittorrent won
 464 2010-10-21 13:03:44 <sneak> i still get movies for free
 465 2010-10-21 13:03:53 <Kiba> inconvenient searching
 466 2010-10-21 13:03:57 <Kiba> plus some movies don't have seeds
 467 2010-10-21 13:04:15 <sneak> tpb is more convenient than napster or gnutella ever was
 468 2010-10-21 13:04:18 <sneak> or what.cd
 469 2010-10-21 13:04:22 <appamatto> as long as we have the block history we can form sub-networks or try and reconstruct the original network
 470 2010-10-21 13:04:54 <sneak> appamatto: i am fairly convinced that bitcoin itself will turn out to fail, yet tons of experience will be gained for creating its logical successor
 471 2010-10-21 13:05:05 <sneak> that's why i haven't invested more money into it.
 472 2010-10-21 13:05:23 <AltraMayor> Am I wrong to assume that you all guys would move to another currency that have much more liquidity than BTC but has the catch that there's a company that started the currency that owns a lot of it to make exchange easy?
 473 2010-10-21 13:05:23 <Kiba> bitcoiners will learn a lot from this enterprise
 474 2010-10-21 13:05:29 <sneak> i might drop $500 on a video card though to make free coins, sell the coins as they gen, then sell the video card when bitcoin collapses
 475 2010-10-21 13:05:34 <Kiba> it is an entirely entrepeneural enterprise
 476 2010-10-21 13:05:38 <sneak> AltraMayor: no
 477 2010-10-21 13:05:39 <sneak> not at all
 478 2010-10-21 13:05:49 <sneak> AltraMayor: some patience is required
 479 2010-10-21 13:05:54 <sneak> see, there are under 5M bitcoins now
 480 2010-10-21 13:05:58 <Kiba> any one company that own and control a currency is a bit fail
 481 2010-10-21 13:06:03 <appamatto> AltraMayor, as far as I know Satoshi owns 50% of it
 482 2010-10-21 13:06:03 <Kiba> a big utter fail
 483 2010-10-21 13:06:09 <appamatto> It doesn't impact my usage
 484 2010-10-21 13:06:20 <Kiba> appamatto: Citation needed.
 485 2010-10-21 13:06:30 <appamatto> I'm not asserting that he does
 486 2010-10-21 13:06:39 <appamatto> I'm just saying that he could, and it doesn't matter
 487 2010-10-21 13:06:54 <appamatto> It would matter if someone owned a majority of the generation capability
 488 2010-10-21 13:06:55 <sneak> once bitcoin gains more grass-roots traction
 489 2010-10-21 13:07:08 <sneak> someone with money to burn will come in and buy a bunch of coins and stabilize the spread/rates
 490 2010-10-21 13:07:19 <sneak> it would be me, but i don't trust it yet.
 491 2010-10-21 13:08:02 <Kiba> there is no stability
 492 2010-10-21 13:08:03 <AltraMayor> Kiba: why utter failure? Don't a lot of developers code for iphone?
 493 2010-10-21 13:08:10 <Kiba> and there won't ever be
 494 2010-10-21 13:08:23 <sneak> Kiba: if 100M people are using it, there would be stability
 495 2010-10-21 13:08:32 <sneak> as you could use those coins to buy good/services from 100M people
 496 2010-10-21 13:08:34 <Kiba> uttetr failure of what?
 497 2010-10-21 13:08:49 <MacRohard> normal currencies aren't that stable anyway
 498 2010-10-21 13:08:52 <Kiba> look, nobody in their right mind would trust a centralized currency
 499 2010-10-21 13:09:00 <AltraMayor> And I'm not thinking about closing the market, people would be able to do exactly everything that BTC does today, but having a company that brings massive liquidity from the beginning.
 500 2010-10-21 13:09:04 <MacRohard> Kiba, there's qq coin
 501 2010-10-21 13:09:27 <sneak> AltraMayor: bitcoins have massive liquidity today
 502 2010-10-21 13:09:38 <sneak> just trade in cents instea dof full coins
 503 2010-10-21 13:09:45 <Kiba> 200,000 BTC is proof of that liquidity, AltraMayor
 504 2010-10-21 13:09:49 <sneak> start selling to the unwashed masses at $1/coin
 505 2010-10-21 13:09:53 <Kiba> exchange in one day
 506 2010-10-21 13:09:59 <Kiba> it was very liquid for a time
 507 2010-10-21 13:10:07 <MacRohard> bitcoin is large enough to move $10k around in a resonable amount fo time
 508 2010-10-21 13:10:19 <AltraMayor> sneak: If one can't buy 100K BTC without influencing the price, that's not massive liquidity.
 509 2010-10-21 13:10:19 <sneak> my facebook app may sell coins for fb credits at the rate of $1/coin
 510 2010-10-21 13:10:34 <sneak> AltraMayor: the units are irrelevant
 511 2010-10-21 13:10:52 <sneak> you can buy 100k .01 btc without influencing the price :)
 512 2010-10-21 13:11:01 <Kiba> 52000 btc has been exchanged in the last 24 hours
 513 2010-10-21 13:11:18 <Kiba> price remain steady
 514 2010-10-21 13:11:33 <sneak> AltraMayor: consider for a moment that 75% of bitcoins that will exist do not right now
 515 2010-10-21 13:11:34 <Kiba> well, it isn't exceeding 0.103 at the moment
 516 2010-10-21 13:12:16 <appamatto> AltraMayor, 100K BTC is a huge number of bitcoins
 517 2010-10-21 13:12:47 <AltraMayor> sneak: I'm not concerned with using BTC to buy virtual stuff, I want to go to a convenience store near the campus and pay with my phone.
 518 2010-10-21 13:12:52 <appamatto> That's like saying the dollar isn't liquid because you can't buy $1trillion without affecting the price
 519 2010-10-21 13:13:05 <Kiba> AltraMayor: you're jumping ahead of yourself
 520 2010-10-21 13:13:14 <AltraMayor> Kiba: why?
 521 2010-10-21 13:13:31 <sneak> the convenience store owner doesn't want bitcoins, he wants local currency
 522 2010-10-21 13:13:48 <Kiba> because you'll be sitting on the technology until 5 years later. You could help the economy in immediate way.
 523 2010-10-21 13:13:49 <AltraMayor> $1trillion is way beyond what one needs to start a business, even big business.
 524 2010-10-21 13:14:47 <Kiba> and reduce the time to market your technology 4.8 years or something
 525 2010-10-21 13:15:07 <AltraMayor> sneak: Who said that one can't persuade a store owner to accept anything that sells more? I'm not saying it'd work for every store, just near Campus.
 526 2010-10-21 13:15:10 <Kiba> the foundation has to be laid down
 527 2010-10-21 13:15:22 <Kiba> why would college students use bitcoin?
 528 2010-10-21 13:15:44 <AltraMayor> Kiba: college students already use alternatives currencies.
 529 2010-10-21 13:15:55 <sneak> like what
 530 2010-10-21 13:16:00 <Kiba> then you have to complete with those alternative currencies
 531 2010-10-21 13:16:11 <Kiba> compete
 532 2010-10-21 13:16:31 <AltraMayor> Yes, but if one has to compete, it means that there's a market.
 533 2010-10-21 13:16:34 <sneak> i don't think they do, i think they use alternate payment methods for USD
 534 2010-10-21 13:16:42 <Kiba> percisely
 535 2010-10-21 13:16:45 <Kiba> like my JCard
 536 2010-10-21 13:16:45 <sneak> e.g. college id cards, vouchers, paypal, etc
 537 2010-10-21 13:17:07 <omglolbbq> are there GPU enabled binaries (win32) other then the puddingpop version? i can't find on the forum
 538 2010-10-21 13:17:37 <Kiba> but anyway, start small! Start approriate business for the economy of today
 539 2010-10-21 13:18:02 <Kiba> business that are more likely to get a few bitcoins
 540 2010-10-21 13:18:11 <Kiba> rather than none at all
 541 2010-10-21 13:18:16 <Kiba> time is pecious, use it wisely
 542 2010-10-21 13:21:23 <Kiba> I think I scared him away
 543 2010-10-21 13:21:35 <m0mchil> omglolbbq: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0
 544 2010-10-21 13:22:20 <m0mchil> omglolbbq: see last posts
 545 2010-10-21 13:30:09 <omglolbbq> thanks m0mchil
 546 2010-10-21 13:32:53 <appamatto> This is the only *-dev channel I know that doesn't hate off-topic discussion with a passion
 547 2010-10-21 13:33:33 <Kiba> lol
 548 2010-10-21 13:42:13 <omglolbbq> getting "libeay32.dll" not found on your system O_O
 549 2010-10-21 13:44:28 <jackmcbarn> i think thats part of openssl
 550 2010-10-21 13:45:54 <omglolbbq> normal bitcoin doesnt give that message
 551 2010-10-21 14:18:35 <omglolbbq> hm am i doing something wrong? i start momchils version in server mode, then i run poclbm, enter username and password then it shows khash for 5 seconds and pops back to asking username and pass
 552 2010-10-21 14:38:16 <appamatto> So was there originally a libertarian intent in bitcoin, or did it just attract all of the libertarian attention afterwards?
 553 2010-10-21 14:40:22 <UukGoblin> Ook
 554 2010-10-21 14:40:26 <UukGoblin> (librarian)
 555 2010-10-21 14:40:53 <appamatto> what?
 556 2010-10-21 14:41:26 <UukGoblin> pratchett joke
 557 2010-10-21 14:42:09 <omglolbbq> O_O
 558 2010-10-21 14:43:06 <UukGoblin> (what does 'libertarian' mean, anyway?)
 559 2010-10-21 14:55:03 <topace> "Libertarianism is the advocacy of individual liberty, especially freedom of thought and action"
 560 2010-10-21 15:01:11 <UukGoblin> what's liberty? what's freedom? which individual? what sort of advocacy? why freeing up actions? what if someone wants to nuke the earth? etc etc etc
 561 2010-10-21 15:02:18 <echelon> nuking the earth would be damage of property
 562 2010-10-21 15:03:07 <echelon> in such a case, i think preemptive action would be justified
 563 2010-10-21 15:04:00 <UukGoblin> echelon, I was just replying to a definition of libertarianism, which I don't understand, because appamatto was asking about libertarian intents in bitcoin
 564 2010-10-21 15:04:19 <UukGoblin> (the 'because' ties to replying, not understanding)
 565 2010-10-21 15:12:38 <UukGoblin> (I'd call nuking of earth an act of barbarism. property isn't very well defined)
 566 2010-10-21 15:13:53 <echelon> no, property rights is very clearly defined in libertarianism
 567 2010-10-21 15:14:43 <UukGoblin> oh, right
 568 2010-10-21 15:15:25 <UukGoblin> if we're in the libertarianism definitions, then I'd risk a statement that advocating individual liberty makes pre-emptive action against nukes much harder
 569 2010-10-21 15:16:39 <echelon> i'm sure they would allow an individual to obtain a nuke
 570 2010-10-21 15:16:47 <echelon> but that's how far it will go
 571 2010-10-21 16:23:01 <Dhaw> Hello
 572 2010-10-21 16:23:06 <Dhaw> I'm need one help in BITCOIN
 573 2010-10-21 16:23:36 <theymos> Hi Dhaw.
 574 2010-10-21 16:24:01 <Dhaw> Theymos, please Help me
 575 2010-10-21 16:24:13 <theymos> What is your problem?
 576 2010-10-21 16:24:51 <Dhaw> My bitcoin have this message of error: " warning: displayed transactions may not be correct! you may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade"
 577 2010-10-21 16:25:36 <Dhaw> I sent BTC 8200 to my other computer, and so far not appeared there
 578 2010-10-21 16:25:37 <theymos> What version are you using? (Go to Help -> About)
 579 2010-10-21 16:25:57 <Dhaw> 0.3.13 beta
 580 2010-10-21 16:27:03 <omglolbbq> dhaw how long has it been?
 581 2010-10-21 16:27:36 <Dhaw> 2 weeks i think
 582 2010-10-21 16:28:00 <omglolbbq> thats realy strange
 583 2010-10-21 16:28:19 <Dhaw> transfer 8200  to another computer, and so far not appeared to transfer there.
 584 2010-10-21 16:28:36 <Dhaw> Estado: 123 confirmados Data: 29/09/2010 08:10 Destinat??rio: 1gG3FDwkn8rbiCP7nZhb9UDDxbYVrYMCp D??bito: -8,750.00 Quantia Net: -8,750.00
 585 2010-10-21 16:28:50 <Dhaw> And no have this btc in other computer, because?
 586 2010-10-21 16:28:59 <MacRohard> is it connected to the network?
 587 2010-10-21 16:29:10 <mwillis> is the address in the wallet on the other computer?
 588 2010-10-21 16:29:38 <theymos> That error means that an invalid chain has the lead. You're probably connected to only <0.3.10 peers for some reason. How many connections do you have?
 589 2010-10-21 16:30:24 <Dhaw> 419 transactions
 590 2010-10-21 16:30:51 <Dhaw> mwillis, in the other computer is the adress ok.
 591 2010-10-21 16:30:53 <theymos> No, the number two boxes to the left of that. "x connections"
 592 2010-10-21 16:33:25 <Dhaw> 8, i think
 593 2010-10-21 16:35:16 <theymos> That is very strange. Run Bitcoin with this switch: bitcoin -addnode=99.27.237.13
 594 2010-10-21 16:36:03 <Dhaw> How i'm make?
 595 2010-10-21 16:37:58 <theymos> Right click on the Bitcoin icon. Put -addnode=99.27.237.13 at the end of the "target" box. Click apply. Close bitcoin and then start it again.
 596 2010-10-21 16:38:18 <appamatto> do you think anyone builds GPU clusters?
 597 2010-10-21 16:38:49 <appamatto> I mean, Amazon EC2-style clusters
 598 2010-10-21 16:39:23 <appamatto> That might be an interesting business idea, and the unpaid time could be used for BTC generation
 599 2010-10-21 16:40:26 <Dhaw> Theymos
 600 2010-10-21 16:40:44 <Dhaw> Estado: 123 confirmados Data: 29/09/2010 08:10 Destinat??rio: 1gG3FDwkn8rbiCP7nZhb9UDDxbYVrYMCp D??bito: -8,750.00 Quantia Net: -8,750.00 - Send this in 29/09/2010
 601 2010-10-21 16:40:54 <Dhaw> For my other computer
 602 2010-10-21 16:46:21 <theymos> Dhaw: The transaction is not in the block chain.
 603 2010-10-21 16:47:14 <Dhaw> How many block need to receive?
 604 2010-10-21 16:47:15 <theymos> Does anyone speak Dhaw's language? He might have found a serious bug.
 605 2010-10-21 16:48:09 <Dhaw> =(
 606 2010-10-21 16:48:19 <Dhaw> I'm need receive my btc and sell too?
 607 2010-10-21 16:48:23 <Kiba> hey
 608 2010-10-21 16:48:54 <Kiba> Dhaw: what version you are using?
 609 2010-10-21 16:49:01 <Kiba> oh
 610 2010-10-21 16:49:08 <Dhaw> 0.3.14
 611 2010-10-21 16:49:21 <Dhaw> Now
 612 2010-10-21 16:50:38 <ArtForz> sounds like a block chain error
 613 2010-10-21 16:50:47 <theymos> No version should get that error. It was added after the overflow bug. It means you recognize an invalid chain (one with a bad transaction) as longer than the main chain.
 614 2010-10-21 16:51:29 <ArtForz> I think it can also happen if your block DB or index is corrupted
 615 2010-10-21 16:51:40 <Dhaw> I'll lose my bitcoins. 8200 transfer did not appear, and I have over 6000.
 616 2010-10-21 16:51:45 <ArtForz> huh?
 617 2010-10-21 16:52:01 <ArtForz> wallet.dat stores your transactions
 618 2010-10-21 16:52:02 <warner> testnet?
 619 2010-10-21 16:52:15 <ArtForz> block chain can be redownloaded without causing problems
 620 2010-10-21 16:52:53 <warner> Dhaw: you have over 6000 BTC? How long have you been generating?
 621 2010-10-21 16:53:05 <appamatto> I don't think you can lose the bitcoins if you have both the original wallet and the other wallet
 622 2010-10-21 16:53:10 <Dhaw> I dont know...
 623 2010-10-21 16:53:42 <ArtForz> yes, make sure you have copies of wallet.dat
 624 2010-10-21 16:53:56 <Dhaw> i'm have 8.200 too
 625 2010-10-21 16:54:14 <Dhaw> walled dat?
 626 2010-10-21 16:54:18 <gavinandresen> Dhaw: how many blocks do you have?  (number at the bottom of the bitcoin window)
 627 2010-10-21 16:54:35 <Dhaw> 1698
 628 2010-10-21 16:54:41 <ArtForz> wha?
 629 2010-10-21 16:54:45 <gavinandresen> Ah.  That's not enough.
 630 2010-10-21 16:54:56 <ArtForz> current block count is 86795
 631 2010-10-21 16:55:27 <Kiba> Wait a bit until the transaction is complete?
 632 2010-10-21 16:55:28 <gavinandresen> Dhaw:  I think maybe you weren't connected to the real bitcoin network, and have been generating your very own block chain.
 633 2010-10-21 16:55:39 <ArtForz> is it me or does that sound like his client has been mining blocks starting at the genesis block?
 634 2010-10-21 16:55:48 <gavinandresen> (it's not just you)
 635 2010-10-21 16:56:06 <Kiba> wtf?
 636 2010-10-21 16:56:12 <Dhaw> I transfer 8200 to my other computer and has not yet appeared, it has almost one month
 637 2010-10-21 16:56:56 <gavinandresen> Both of your computers need to show 86,795 blocks, or they're not talking to each other properly.
 638 2010-10-21 16:57:52 <ArtForz> well, sounds like they're probably talking to each other, but not to the rest of the network ...
 639 2010-10-21 16:58:15 <appamatto> gavin, thanks for the coins
 640 2010-10-21 16:58:17 <appamatto> from the faucet
 641 2010-10-21 16:58:50 <appamatto> ArtForz, haha
 642 2010-10-21 16:58:55 <appamatto> yes, that's what it sounds like
 643 2010-10-21 16:59:24 <Kiba> does that mean his computer's generation effort was...wasteful?
 644 2010-10-21 16:59:38 <Kiba> poor Dhaw if that is the case
 645 2010-10-21 16:59:55 <theymos> 1698*50=84,900 BTC, which is more than he has. Where did the other blocks come from?
 646 2010-10-21 17:00:04 <ArtForz> his other client
 647 2010-10-21 17:00:09 <Diablo-D3> hmm?
 648 2010-10-21 17:00:12 <appamatto> He said he has 6000 + the 8200 he transferred... that sounds like a couple weeks of mining
 649 2010-10-21 17:00:19 <Diablo-D3> appamatto: or a couple of days
 650 2010-10-21 17:00:31 <Dhaw> i'm have 8.200 transferred
 651 2010-10-21 17:00:33 <Dhaw> have more than ome month
 652 2010-10-21 17:00:38 <theymos> The other client is receiving this transaction, though, so it doesn't recognize his chain.
 653 2010-10-21 17:00:41 <Dhaw> and no look this in other computer
 654 2010-10-21 17:00:53 <appamatto> Depending on the initial difficulty
 655 2010-10-21 17:01:05 <Dhaw> And now?
 656 2010-10-21 17:01:19 <Dhaw> I'm need my btc and sell this too?
 657 2010-10-21 17:01:21 <Kiba> how many connections he have?
 658 2010-10-21 17:01:31 <Kiba> so you're selling all your btc
 659 2010-10-21 17:01:32 <appamatto> It might have taken a long time for the difficulty to drop to accommodate a single generator
 660 2010-10-21 17:01:32 <Kiba> why?
 661 2010-10-21 17:01:33 <Dhaw> I do, please help me
 662 2010-10-21 17:01:37 <theymos> He's also getting the "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct!", which shouldn't happen if he's just been working on his own chain.
 663 2010-10-21 17:01:44 <Dhaw> Yes
 664 2010-10-21 17:02:39 <appamatto> Would this sort itself out if he connected to a known good client?
 665 2010-10-21 17:02:39 <Dhaw> I do, please help me
 666 2010-10-21 17:02:53 <ArtForz> check debug.log to see what error is causing InvalidChainFound() ?
 667 2010-10-21 17:03:06 <appamatto> Dhaw, I hate to break it to you, but there's no way you could've generated that many coins in the last month on one machine
 668 2010-10-21 17:03:30 <appamatto> So those bitcoins are most likely lost
 669 2010-10-21 17:04:00 <Dhaw> appamato
 670 2010-10-21 17:04:06 <Dhaw> I'm no generate this in one month
 671 2010-10-21 17:04:08 <Dhaw> More..
 672 2010-10-21 17:04:19 <Dhaw> I'm just transfer this one month ago
 673 2010-10-21 17:04:24 <appamatto> Ah, Is ee
 674 2010-10-21 17:04:30 <appamatto> When did you start generating?
 675 2010-10-21 17:04:37 <Dhaw> Idk
 676 2010-10-21 17:04:52 <Dhaw> The bitcoin opened 24h for day
 677 2010-10-21 17:04:59 <Dhaw> I my work
 678 2010-10-21 17:05:12 <Kiba> it would be helpful if you insert some verbs...
 679 2010-10-21 17:05:19 <Dhaw> in my work*
 680 2010-10-21 17:05:27 <Kiba> in your job?
 681 2010-10-21 17:05:40 <Dhaw> yes
 682 2010-10-21 17:05:44 <Dhaw> sry my english
 683 2010-10-21 17:05:56 <Dhaw> i'm ckeck
 684 2010-10-21 17:06:01 <Dhaw> the debug log
 685 2010-10-21 17:06:05 <Dhaw> paste here some lines
 686 2010-10-21 17:06:19 <Dhaw> ) : 40e9d2 mapTransactions prev not found 299bed ERROR: AcceptTransaction() : ConnectInputs failed 40e9d2 storing orphan tx 40e9d2 received: addr (27 bytes) BitcoinMiner: proof-of-work found     hash: 000000001f1bc8e3275e9af195dd056dea0f2dce0bdfe5c3b86b417c9a616a68   target: 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 CBlock(hash=000000001f1bc8e3275e, ver=1, hashPrevBlock=00000000863eb7764645, hashMerkleRoot=
 687 2010-10-21 17:06:51 <appamatto> are you doing pooled mining?
 688 2010-10-21 17:07:22 <theymos> Well that generation is definitely bad.
 689 2010-10-21 17:07:46 <Dhaw> No
 690 2010-10-21 17:08:20 <theymos> Dhaw: Paste some debug.log lines near the one that begins with "InvalidChainFound"
 691 2010-10-21 17:08:40 <Dhaw> ok
 692 2010-10-21 17:10:19 <Dhaw> Theymos: I'm no found this lines.
 693 2010-10-21 17:14:12 <theymos> Dhaw: Close Bitcoin and move all of your *.dat files somewhere else. Then start Bitcoin again.
 694 2010-10-21 17:16:03 <Dhaw> No have  0 BTCS.
 695 2010-10-21 17:16:11 <Dhaw> Now.
 696 2010-10-21 17:16:27 <Dhaw> And no have error.
 697 2010-10-21 17:16:30 <Dhaw> :S
 698 2010-10-21 17:17:33 <theymos> Post a few bottom lines from debug.log.
 699 2010-10-21 17:18:18 <Dhaw> itcoin version 0.3.14 beta OS version Windows Vista (build 6001, Service Pack 1) System default language is 151 Portuguese_Brazil.1252 Language file locale/pt_BR/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.mo (Portuguese (Brazilian)) Default data directory C:UsersIBGEAppDataRoamingBitcoin Bound to port 8333 Loading addresses... dbenv.open strLogDir=C:UsersIBGEAppDataRoamingBitcoin/database strErrorFile=C:UsersIBGEAppDataRoamingBitcoin/db.
 700 2010-10-21 17:19:16 <theymos> Is it managing to connect to IRC?
 701 2010-10-21 17:20:52 <Dhaw> How?
 702 2010-10-21 17:22:41 <Dhaw> =(
 703 2010-10-21 17:22:49 <theymos> Reload debug.log. Do you see any "received: addr"?
 704 2010-10-21 17:24:14 <theymos> Or any "trying connection".
 705 2010-10-21 17:25:38 <Dhaw> received: addr (53 bytes)
 706 2010-10-21 17:26:17 <Dhaw> trying connection  lastseen=-0,9hrs lasttry=-357690,9hr
 707 2010-10-21 17:26:25 <theymos> Is that near the bottom of debug.log?
 708 2010-10-21 17:28:17 <Dhaw> no
 709 2010-10-21 17:28:22 <Dhaw> near have
 710 2010-10-21 17:28:26 <Dhaw> ock 00000000bcbe926ce2e8  have
 711 2010-10-21 17:29:03 <theymos> What's your block count in the GUI?
 712 2010-10-21 17:29:31 <Dhaw> 1698
 713 2010-10-21 17:30:05 <theymos> That is so strange. That's the same number you had before. Is the error back in the GUI?
 714 2010-10-21 17:31:19 <appamatto> I wonder what peers he is connecting to
 715 2010-10-21 17:36:23 <theymos> Dhaw: Right click the Bitcoin icon and choose properties: http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1371/66038549.png
 716 2010-10-21 17:36:51 <theymos> Then put -addnode=99.27.237.13 at the end of "target": http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/528/67643780.png
 717 2010-10-21 17:36:56 <theymos> Then restart Bitcoin.
 718 2010-10-21 17:37:16 <Dhaw> ok
 719 2010-10-21 17:38:02 <theymos> Is your block count increasing now?
 720 2010-10-21 17:38:41 <Dhaw> i'm make
 721 2010-10-21 17:38:42 <Dhaw> no
 722 2010-10-21 17:38:45 <Dhaw> same
 723 2010-10-21 17:39:13 <Dhaw> " warning: displayed transactions may not be correct! you may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade "
 724 2010-10-21 17:43:07 <jgarzik> boy, it has become quite pointless to generate coins on CPU (rather than GPU)
 725 2010-10-21 17:43:14 <theymos> Dhaw: Do you have "InvalidChainFound" in your debug.log now?
 726 2010-10-21 17:43:35 <Dhaw> check
 727 2010-10-21 17:43:45 <Dhaw> moment
 728 2010-10-21 17:44:20 <Dhaw> No have "Invalidchainfound"
 729 2010-10-21 17:45:17 <theymos> Dhaw: Please upload your entire debug.log to some file host.
 730 2010-10-21 17:45:29 <Kiba> I have a integrated graphic driver
 731 2010-10-21 17:45:37 <Kiba> does that mean I can't generate coins using a GPU?
 732 2010-10-21 17:46:13 <Dhaw> Theymos: Moment
 733 2010-10-21 17:47:26 <jgarzik> Kiba: what gpu?
 734 2010-10-21 17:47:59 <Kiba> jgarzik: so if I have a integrated graphic card thingy, that mean I can't use the GPU option?
 735 2010-10-21 17:48:30 <appamatto> jgarzik yup
 736 2010-10-21 17:48:43 <appamatto> I was just going through the math of buying a $300 GPU for generation
 737 2010-10-21 17:48:46 <jgarzik> Kiba: what type of GPU?
 738 2010-10-21 17:48:51 <appamatto> It's barely breakeven
 739 2010-10-21 17:48:57 <Dhaw> http://www.fileshost.com/download.php?id=DEA5883E1
 740 2010-10-21 17:49:07 <Dhaw> Theymos, the file
 741 2010-10-21 17:49:10 <jgarzik> appamatto: did you include power cost in the calculations?  :)
 742 2010-10-21 17:49:11 <Kiba> I don't know, mine is a pretty low end, I think it's integrated something
 743 2010-10-21 17:49:16 <appamatto> jgarzik yup
 744 2010-10-21 17:49:19 <Kiba> I only include opportunity cost
 745 2010-10-21 17:49:21 <appamatto> estimating at $200/year
 746 2010-10-21 17:49:34 <Kiba> gottach make more than 200 dollars worth of bitcoins!
 747 2010-10-21 17:49:36 <theymos> Dhaw: Thanks. I'll take a look at it. The coins you generated on that computer are almost certainly lost, however. :(
 748 2010-10-21 17:49:41 <jgarzik> Kiba: impossible to answer without more info.  do you at least know if its ATI, NV or Intel?
 749 2010-10-21 17:49:48 <Kiba> Intel
 750 2010-10-21 17:50:05 <jgarzik> Kiba: no GPU generation for you
 751 2010-10-21 17:50:12 <Kiba> :(
 752 2010-10-21 17:50:20 <appamatto> you can generate $200 in a year
 753 2010-10-21 17:50:51 <Kiba> well, it shouldn't matter, right
 754 2010-10-21 17:50:55 <jgarzik> Kiba: There's nothing inherently incompatible with integrated GPUs...  a processor is a processor, no matter whether it's on your motherboard or on a card.  Intel GPUs don't have OpenCL available yet, AFAIK.
 755 2010-10-21 17:51:10 <appamatto> Kiba, why not?
 756 2010-10-21 17:51:21 <Dhaw> Theymos i'm lost all coins?
 757 2010-10-21 17:51:26 <Kiba> appamatto: because it's pointless to mine anyway
 758 2010-10-21 17:51:29 <Kiba> if you can't spend it
 759 2010-10-21 17:51:36 <Dhaw> Because one bug
 760 2010-10-21 17:51:39 <Dhaw> it's no possible
 761 2010-10-21 17:51:41 <Dhaw> =/
 762 2010-10-21 17:51:57 <appamatto> umm, can't you spend it?
 763 2010-10-21 17:52:11 <appamatto> you can certainly buy $$ with it
 764 2010-10-21 17:53:21 <appamatto> I think the BTC/$ rate will increase, so I'd like to just keep BTC
 765 2010-10-21 17:53:38 <Dhaw> more, my bitcoin no transfer...
 766 2010-10-21 17:53:41 <Dhaw> have error
 767 2010-10-21 17:53:41 <Diablo-D3> heh
 768 2010-10-21 17:55:48 <Kiba> I need to build my own computer someday
 769 2010-10-21 17:55:57 <Dhaw> Theymos?
 770 2010-10-21 17:56:27 <Kiba> appamatto: I am sure new app will be tempting you to spend it
 771 2010-10-21 17:58:11 <appamatto> new app?
 772 2010-10-21 17:59:44 <Teppy> Got a new game in Dragon's Tale that's skill based if anyone wants to give it a shot.
 773 2010-10-21 17:59:48 <Kiba> something will pop up that will really get your interest
 774 2010-10-21 18:00:14 <appamatto> I have an app idea too
 775 2010-10-21 18:00:36 <appamatto> What is Dragon's Tale?
 776 2010-10-21 18:00:57 <Teppy> MMORPG Casino
 777 2010-10-21 18:01:03 <appamatto> oh
 778 2010-10-21 18:01:11 <appamatto> That's quite a combination
 779 2010-10-21 18:01:22 <appamatto> anywhere I can read about it?
 780 2010-10-21 18:01:33 <Teppy> All the games within are totally original - no blackjack, craps, roulette, etc.
 781 2010-10-21 18:01:47 <Teppy> 3D persistant world.
 782 2010-10-21 18:02:09 <Teppy> The website is still a few days away, so no links work, but: www.dtmmo.com
 783 2010-10-21 18:02:50 <Teppy> Client software is the same as A Tale in the Desert (the main game that my company does): www.atitd.com
 784 2010-10-21 18:03:13 <appamatto> You are awesome
 785 2010-10-21 18:03:21 <echelon> thanks
 786 2010-10-21 18:03:34 <appamatto> "Anything you can touch YOU CAN GAMBLE ON!"
 787 2010-10-21 18:03:51 <echelon> like children?
 788 2010-10-21 18:04:31 <Teppy> Ooh, I do need to think up some game that you play by clicking on another avatar directly...
 789 2010-10-21 18:04:59 <Teppy> Also there's some benches that we use for decoration that you can't gamble on. Those have been bugging me for days :)
 790 2010-10-21 18:05:20 <appamatto> haha
 791 2010-10-21 18:05:28 <appamatto> so that means there is a game associated with each item?
 792 2010-10-21 18:05:33 <appamatto> Is it entirely BTC?
 793 2010-10-21 18:05:37 <Teppy> Yes.
 794 2010-10-21 18:05:43 <Teppy> Yes, entirely BTC.
 795 2010-10-21 18:06:02 <jgarzik> ah hah!  Finally found the Intel GPGPU instruction info: http://intellinuxgraphics.org/VOL_4_subsystem_core.pdf
 796 2010-10-21 18:07:20 <Diablo-D3> whats that for?
 797 2010-10-21 18:07:56 <OneFixt> Teppy: how would I try the skill-based game?
 798 2010-10-21 18:08:24 <jgarzik> "Amazon Web Services LLC today announced that developers and businesses will be able to take advantage of a new free usage tier for a full year.  Beginning November 1, new AWS customers will be able to run a free Amazon EC2 instance for a year, while also leveraging a new free usage tier for Amazon S3, Amazon Elastic Block Store, Amazon Elastic Load Balancing, and AWS data transfer."
 799 2010-10-21 18:08:31 <Teppy> Log in to Dragon's Tale first - I'll give you a tour.
 800 2010-10-21 18:08:47 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: OHRLY
 801 2010-10-21 18:09:02 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what the limits is
 802 2010-10-21 18:09:08 <Diablo-D3> probably like no cpu time
 803 2010-10-21 18:09:27 <jgarzik> http://aws.amazon.com/free/
 804 2010-10-21 18:09:54 <Diablo-D3> 750 hours of Amazon EC2 Linux Micro Instance usage (613 MB of memory and 32-bit and 64-bit platform support)  enough hours to run continuously each month*
 805 2010-10-21 18:10:16 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, thats 31 days
 806 2010-10-21 18:10:48 <jgarzik> "These free tiers are only available to new AWS customers and are available for 12 months following your AWS sign-up date."
 807 2010-10-21 18:11:01 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I cant use it
 808 2010-10-21 18:11:31 <appamatto> Are the games versus the house or versus players?
 809 2010-10-21 18:12:03 <Teppy> Most are vs. the house (including this new one), so far just 1 that's PvP.
 810 2010-10-21 18:12:27 <Teppy> However, this new one has a dynamic odds system so that you're indirectly competing against other players.
 811 2010-10-21 18:13:12 <Teppy> So I believe (though haven't proved yet) that the expected return for a smart player is >100%
 812 2010-10-21 18:13:31 <Teppy> It's hard because I don't know the optimal play strategy.
 813 2010-10-21 18:13:41 <appamatto> Diablo-D3, that sounds like a good deal for BTCers
 814 2010-10-21 18:13:47 <appamatto> although maybe not worth the trouble
 815 2010-10-21 18:14:03 <appamatto> since a midrange CPU may get $10 a year
 816 2010-10-21 18:14:03 <Diablo-D3> appamatto: its not
 817 2010-10-21 18:14:14 <Diablo-D3> EC2 performed the worst of all cloud and vps providers nenolod tried
 818 2010-10-21 18:15:26 <appamatto> If someone does that they should spin their instances in the first week/month before the difficulty rises
 819 2010-10-21 18:16:47 <Teppy> Ok, I see someone logged in. My character is Di
 820 2010-10-21 18:17:12 <appamatto> How is that pronounced?
 821 2010-10-21 18:17:36 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: neither, buy AMD
 822 2010-10-21 18:17:43 <jgarzik> "when stuck with"
 823 2010-10-21 18:17:53 <echelon> amd makes graphics cards?
 824 2010-10-21 18:17:53 <Teppy> "Dee" - means Emperor in Chinese :)
 825 2010-10-21 18:17:55 <Diablo-D3> besides, m0's miner is pretty fast
 826 2010-10-21 18:17:59 <Diablo-D3> echelon: yes, yes they do.
 827 2010-10-21 18:18:10 <echelon> oh, didn't know
 828 2010-10-21 18:18:13 <Diablo-D3> echelon: radeon 4000 and 5000 are AMD.
 829 2010-10-21 18:18:26 <echelon> i thought radeons were ati?
 830 2010-10-21 18:18:28 <Diablo-D3> radeon 6000 dropped the ATI name altogether
 831 2010-10-21 18:18:33 <Diablo-D3> amd bought ati, remember?
 832 2010-10-21 18:18:39 <echelon> oh
 833 2010-10-21 18:18:42 <echelon> i never heard
 834 2010-10-21 18:18:46 <Diablo-D3> this happened a few years ago
 835 2010-10-21 18:18:52 <echelon> cool
 836 2010-10-21 18:19:34 <echelon> and they have their own gpu processing api thingy?
 837 2010-10-21 18:19:45 <Diablo-D3> no
 838 2010-10-21 18:19:47 <Diablo-D3> they use opencl
 839 2010-10-21 18:19:53 <echelon> oh
 840 2010-10-21 18:19:53 <jgarzik> Teppy: `}
 841 2010-10-21 18:20:00 <Teppy> Ooh, thanks!
 842 2010-10-21 18:20:04 <Diablo-D3> you know, the standard for gpgpu work?
 843 2010-10-21 18:20:25 <Teppy> Just gotta figure out how to record that somewhere now :)
 844 2010-10-21 18:20:32 <nathan7> Teppy: vim?
 845 2010-10-21 18:20:38 <nathan7> or notepad for you windoze users
 846 2010-10-21 18:20:51 <jrabbit> Lol.
 847 2010-10-21 18:20:52 <echelon> is it any good?
 848 2010-10-21 18:21:02 <jgarzik> Teppy: that's "hello" in chinese, ni hao (though lacking proper tonal accents)
 849 2010-10-21 18:21:10 <Teppy> Ah, ok.
 850 2010-10-21 18:21:15 <Teppy> Do you know what Emperor is?
 851 2010-10-21 18:21:30 <theymos> After looking at Dhaw's debug.log, it seems that his Bitcoin is rejecting block 1699 for some reason. Nothing's special about that block, so I don't know why. Bitcoin cut off the part of debug.log where it actually did the rejection.
 852 2010-10-21 18:21:42 <jgarzik> Teppy: ???
 853 2010-10-21 18:21:59 <jgarzik> Teppy: Google Translate is your friend (though I really do know a small bit of Chinese)
 854 2010-10-21 18:22:30 <Kiba> chinese characters are thousands long
 855 2010-10-21 18:22:35 <Kiba> wonder how the heck they type it
 856 2010-10-21 18:22:48 <jgarzik> Kiba: pinyin
 857 2010-10-21 18:23:06 <Kiba> hmm
 858 2010-10-21 18:23:10 <Kiba> I should really learn some Japanese
 859 2010-10-21 18:23:44 <jgarzik> which borrows from Chinese.  I can read Japanese subway station signs, even though I don't know Japanese.
 860 2010-10-21 18:24:29 <jgarzik> Most of Japanese is easier, because it's more advanced:  they have an alphabet for many uses, rather than just characters
 861 2010-10-21 18:25:56 <Zarutian> jgarzik: lesse they got hirigana, kanji and some third used more for cerimonal purposes and of course romanji transliteration
 862 2010-10-21 18:26:03 <Kiba> ALRIGHT
 863 2010-10-21 18:26:04 <Kiba> one failure
 864 2010-10-21 18:26:22 <Diablo-D3> GIGGA DOURILLOU BURREEAKKKAAAA!!!!
 865 2010-10-21 18:26:31 <Zarutian> Kiba: hai means yes
 866 2010-10-21 18:26:47 <Zarutian> Kiba: arigato means thank you
 867 2010-10-21 18:27:08 <Diablo-D3> kamen rider means EPIC MAN OF JUSTICE (on a bike)
 868 2010-10-21 18:27:14 <Kiba> lol
 869 2010-10-21 18:27:22 <Zarutian> Kiba: hmm.. and that is pretty much most japanese I recall at the moment
 870 2010-10-21 18:27:47 <Diablo-D3> watashiwa nihongoga wakarimasen :<
 871 2010-10-21 18:27:47 <Kiba> so the Japanese are reponsible for power rangers?
 872 2010-10-21 18:27:59 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: yes, super sentai are from japan
 873 2010-10-21 18:30:33 <Diablo-D3> <Gendo> mmmm,... melons.
 874 2010-10-21 18:32:17 <Diablo-D3> either that or rod tv
 875 2010-10-21 18:34:35 <gavinandresen> Anybody willing to give me some feedback on my latest project?  https://clearcoin.appspot.com/  (running on the TEST network for now)
 876 2010-10-21 18:36:47 <Teppy> gavinandresen: Cool idea.
 877 2010-10-21 18:36:58 <Zarutian> gavinandresen: how are the payment conditions specified? English text? Executable boolean expression?
 878 2010-10-21 18:36:59 <theymos> gavinandresen: Escrow is useless if the person receiving Bitcoins can't damage the person sending them.
 879 2010-10-21 18:37:01 <Teppy> Doing a demo of DT now, but I'll create an account right after.
 880 2010-10-21 18:37:25 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: neat.  does it use BC transactions for escrow, or is escrow implemented entirely on the website?
 881 2010-10-21 18:37:54 <gavinandresen> Escrow is implemented on the website.  You release the escrow by poking a button on an escrow status page...
 882 2010-10-21 18:38:18 <gavinandresen> And theymos:  the damage to the person sending is they lose their coins for a (month/six months/year)
 883 2010-10-21 18:38:36 <theymos> That's not enough damage.
 884 2010-10-21 18:38:47 <Zarutian> gavinandresen: so the cost is oppertunity cost
 885 2010-10-21 18:39:11 <Zarutian> gavinandresen: what about providing an json rest api or something similiar?
 886 2010-10-21 18:39:13 <gavinandresen> Yup, opportunity cost.  I figure it might be good for situations where you MOSTLY trust the other person...
 887 2010-10-21 18:40:18 <gavinandresen> Zarutian: uhhh.... I want to see if it is useful to people before I write an API for it...
 888 2010-10-21 18:40:18 <UukGoblin> nathan7, nameless|, topic is out of date, 0.3.14 is released
 889 2010-10-21 18:42:05 <UukGoblin> this pyopencl is weird... http://wiki.tiker.net/PyOpenCL/Installation/Linux says to run "python ez_setyp.py", but there's no such file as ez_setup.py
 890 2010-10-21 18:42:18 <gavinandresen> And to all:  if you want to give it a try, the freebitcoins.appspot.com/TEST   faucet can be used as both a destination and source for clearcoin escrows.
 891 2010-10-21 18:42:23 <UukGoblin> also did configure --prefix=/home/foo/bar and after running make install I got:
 892 2010-10-21 18:42:53 <UukGoblin> http://pastie.org/1239097
 893 2010-10-21 18:55:12 <Teppy> "Darkfyre" - is that someone from here?
 894 2010-10-21 19:10:37 <Diablo-D3> [04:40:16] <gavinandresen> Zarutian: uhhh.... I want to see if it is useful to people before I write an API for it...
 895 2010-10-21 19:10:39 <Diablo-D3> for hwat?
 896 2010-10-21 19:11:15 <gavinandresen> Diablo-D3:  https://clearcoin.appspot.com/      my "show me the money" escrow service
 897 2010-10-21 19:11:32 <Diablo-D3> Ill look in a sec
 898 2010-10-21 19:12:16 <genjix> hey
 899 2010-10-21 19:16:56 <appamatto> gavinandresen, what stops you from always refusing to release even if your conditions are met?
 900 2010-10-21 19:17:39 <gavinandresen> appamatto: nothing.  But your coins will be stuck for up to a year.
 901 2010-10-21 19:18:31 <appamatto> I don't understand, shouldn't the escrow service check the conditions and then release the money if they are fulfilled?
 902 2010-10-21 19:19:59 <appamatto> In this service it doesn't seem like there is a downside for the person who breaks the deal
 903 2010-10-21 19:20:47 <Kiba> hmm
 904 2010-10-21 19:20:55 <Kiba> there was a guy who was going to write an escrow service
 905 2010-10-21 19:20:58 <Kiba> I lost money on him
 906 2010-10-21 19:21:04 <Kiba> since he disappeared
 907 2010-10-21 19:21:11 <Diablo-D3> appamatto: you mean the one paying cash gains?
 908 2010-10-21 19:21:15 <Diablo-D3> technically yes
 909 2010-10-21 19:21:20 <Diablo-D3> but you can just ruin the motherfucker
 910 2010-10-21 19:21:31 <appamatto> An escrow service is part of an idea I have for BTC
 911 2010-10-21 19:21:47 <Kiba> appamatto: are you going to execute any of your idea anytime soon?
 912 2010-10-21 19:21:53 <appamatto> I think that over time some people will collect early bitcoins, say from the first 1000 blocks, or earlier
 913 2010-10-21 19:22:17 <UukGoblin> yeah, I don't understand clearcoin in the same way appamatto doesn't
 914 2010-10-21 19:22:21 <appamatto> So the idea is for a site that allows you to buy and sell early bitcoins using other bitcoins
 915 2010-10-21 19:22:29 <Diablo-D3> its a one sided escrow service
 916 2010-10-21 19:22:33 <Diablo-D3> what you need is two way
 917 2010-10-21 19:22:41 <Diablo-D3> one that handles BOTH btc and the payment
 918 2010-10-21 19:22:55 <Diablo-D3> but its a good start
 919 2010-10-21 19:23:38 <appamatto> And there is an escrow service involved that makes sure the proper coins are being traded
 920 2010-10-21 19:24:12 <appamatto> But it's full escrow, unless the site disappears while you are waiting for someone to pay
 921 2010-10-21 19:28:48 <appamatto> Kiba, I just thought of it last night
 922 2010-10-21 19:29:04 <appamatto> was hoping to get some opinions before I get into execution
 923 2010-10-21 19:36:04 <gavinandresen> Diablo-D3: you mean an escrow that takes both currency and bitcoins and holds them until... something?  Isn't that pretty much Mt Gox?
 924 2010-10-21 19:36:17 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: mt gox doesnt escrow though, does it?
 925 2010-10-21 19:36:21 <Diablo-D3> I thought it just arranged bidding?
 926 2010-10-21 19:36:27 <Diablo-D3> oh wait
 927 2010-10-21 19:36:38 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: so yes, basically mt gox.
 928 2010-10-21 19:36:44 <gavinandresen> :-)
 929 2010-10-21 19:37:06 <gavinandresen> Clearcoin is for buying Hello Kitty lunch boxes.
 930 2010-10-21 19:37:31 <gavinandresen> (or other, not-extremely-valuable, stuff)
 931 2010-10-21 19:44:49 <appamatto> Hmm
 932 2010-10-21 19:45:04 <appamatto> It seems like it only provides proof that they buyer has the required BTC
 933 2010-10-21 19:45:43 <appamatto> other than that, the seller can hold up the buyer's BTC for long periods of time and the buyer can simply refuse to pay
 934 2010-10-21 19:46:51 <gavinandresen> Yup.
 935 2010-10-21 19:50:05 <gavinandresen> Of course, if you're buying something physical then the seller has your address (and maybe your name).  I'm thinking about how to roll a reputation system into ClearCoin (but that's down the road, and sites like biddingpond might be a better place to do that).
 936 2010-10-21 19:50:55 <gavinandresen> Away for a while, back in a hour or three
 937 2010-10-21 20:05:09 <Kiba> biddingpond is DOWN
 938 2010-10-21 20:05:31 <Diablo-D3> hrm
 939 2010-10-21 20:05:32 <Diablo-D3> proof of balance?
 940 2010-10-21 20:05:42 <Diablo-D3> that should actually be built into btc using a secondary layer
 941 2010-10-21 20:06:05 <Diablo-D3> as in, something accessible through the normal client UI
 942 2010-10-21 20:06:30 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlTZ0IWfVBQ
 943 2010-10-21 20:06:31 <Diablo-D3> so
 944 2010-10-21 20:06:41 <Diablo-D3> transparent LCD
 945 2010-10-21 20:06:44 <Diablo-D3> lowish res
 946 2010-10-21 20:06:52 <Diablo-D3> looks like its being done on a PS3 from the rendering style
 947 2010-10-21 20:07:33 <Diablo-D3> and the backlight is done using colored moving projectors moving along with the characters
 948 2010-10-21 20:07:57 <ArtForz> looks like 68xx won't be too interesting after all
 949 2010-10-21 20:08:02 <Diablo-D3> and the LCD is attenuating the colors to match the backligt color (ie, chroma-sensitive dyn constrast)
 950 2010-10-21 20:08:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no, the single chip 69xx is interesting
 951 2010-10-21 20:08:34 <ArtForz> Cayman XT ?
 952 2010-10-21 20:08:44 <Kiba> low on mtgox is now offically 0.097
 953 2010-10-21 20:08:45 <Diablo-D3> not sure the name
 954 2010-10-21 20:08:51 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: sweeet
 955 2010-10-21 20:09:23 <ArtForz> btw, noticed the leaked 68xx press kit slides show Antilles = dual cayman?
 956 2010-10-21 20:10:52 <Diablo-D3> yes
 957 2010-10-21 20:11:02 <Diablo-D3> but theres something special about the chip
 958 2010-10-21 20:11:11 <Diablo-D3> its not a normal cayman
 959 2010-10-21 20:11:32 <Diablo-D3> Im wondering if its a unified memory controller like how multi-socket HTX works ("we are Legion")
 960 2010-10-21 20:11:57 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure they'll just pull another 5970
 961 2010-10-21 20:12:07 <Diablo-D3> I think you missed the point
 962 2010-10-21 20:12:13 <Diablo-D3> this means cross-bank access
 963 2010-10-21 20:12:18 <ArtForz> halo dual-gpu card really isn't worth investing too much R&D in
 964 2010-10-21 20:12:26 <Diablo-D3> as in, its not 2x2GB of memory, it'd be 4GB
 965 2010-10-21 20:12:39 <Diablo-D3> and 2x the memory bandwidth available to each GPU
 966 2010-10-21 20:12:50 <ArtForz> it would need a hell of a lot of interconnect speed to make that work
 967 2010-10-21 20:12:56 <Diablo-D3> yup it would
 968 2010-10-21 20:12:59 <Diablo-D3> several HTX lanes.
 969 2010-10-21 20:13:14 <appamatto> what if we could get redbox to accept bitcoin?
 970 2010-10-21 20:13:32 <Diablo-D3> commercial shit already deploys HTX in configurations faster than AMD does
 971 2010-10-21 20:13:35 <ArtForz> I think thatd be still too slow
 972 2010-10-21 20:14:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: htx3 @ 3.2ghz, 32 pair, is about 410 gbit/sec
 973 2010-10-21 20:15:12 <ArtForz> and 256 bit GDDR5 @ 1.2GHz is > 150GByte/s ...
 974 2010-10-21 20:15:31 <ArtForz> still missing an order of magnitude or so
 975 2010-10-21 20:16:31 <Diablo-D3> also, btw, as a side note, the 6950 is rumored to, be, btw, almost identical to the 5870, but have 3 channels (384 bit instead of 256) and a matching 50% extra bandwdith
 976 2010-10-21 20:16:46 <Diablo-D3> 10 more watts, about $60-100 more dollars
 977 2010-10-21 20:16:55 <Diablo-D3> vs current 5870 prices
 978 2010-10-21 20:17:04 <ArtForz> sounds kinda useless
 979 2010-10-21 20:17:09 <Diablo-D3> it wont help btc, but games that rape with textures will win
 980 2010-10-21 20:17:11 <Diablo-D3> tess will also win
 981 2010-10-21 20:17:25 <ArtForz> 5870 isn't really memory BW limited
 982 2010-10-21 20:17:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: it is
 983 2010-10-21 20:17:35 <Diablo-D3> games just avoid it
 984 2010-10-21 20:18:07 <ArtForz> well, if you don't optimize, any amount of mem BW isn't enough
 985 2010-10-21 20:18:19 <Diablo-D3> yes, but theres a difference between optimizing and cutting
 986 2010-10-21 20:18:28 <Diablo-D3> also, three channels DO help in some situations
 987 2010-10-21 20:18:47 <Diablo-D3> opencl memory fetch slots are going to be offset differently
 988 2010-10-21 20:18:52 <ArtForz> except DAAMIT never did a 3-channel interface
 989 2010-10-21 20:19:05 <Diablo-D3> buhwhat?
 990 2010-10-21 20:19:45 <Diablo-D3> oh, the new name of AMD+ATI
 991 2010-10-21 20:19:47 <Diablo-D3> I still call them AMD
 992 2010-10-21 20:20:00 <Diablo-D3> isnt that some sort of joke anyhow?
 993 2010-10-21 20:20:06 <Diablo-D3> sounds like something the onion would do
 994 2010-10-21 20:20:53 <nameless> |UukGoblin: ty
 995 2010-10-21 20:21:23 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but yeah, there ARE games that will benefit from the extra memory bandwidth
 996 2010-10-21 20:21:42 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: it significantly cuts down on the fuck you from FBO rapage
 997 2010-10-21 20:22:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, Im also seeing leaked shit saying antilles is 2x barts xt
 998 2010-10-21 20:22:18 <Diablo-D3> instead of 2x cayman
 999 2010-10-21 20:23:14 <Diablo-D3> except barts is a ~150 watt product, the leaked numbers on antilles is ~285
1000 2010-10-21 20:23:17 <Diablo-D3> which is even LOWER
1001 2010-10-21 20:25:01 <Diablo-D3> says gpu speed is ~same as barts xt, and memory speed is higher
1002 2010-10-21 20:25:44 <Diablo-D3> argh I killed him!
1003 2010-10-21 20:42:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wb
1004 2010-10-21 20:44:02 <ArtForz> thkz
1005 2010-10-21 20:44:09 <ArtForz> stupid 24h forced disconnect
1006 2010-10-21 20:44:40 <ArtForz> I should really just fork over the $ and get small business DSL
1007 2010-10-21 20:44:47 <Diablo-D3> 24h disconnect? wtf?
1008 2010-10-21 20:44:52 <ArtForz> yep
1009 2010-10-21 20:45:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: sent log to you
1010 2010-10-21 20:45:45 <Diablo-D3> also, thats barbaric
1011 2010-10-21 20:46:19 <ArtForz> well, afair theres no "leaked" slides that show antilles = dual barts
1012 2010-10-21 20:46:50 <ArtForz> the AMD 68xx press kit slides show antilles = dual cayman
1013 2010-10-21 20:46:55 <Diablo-D3> not slides
1014 2010-10-21 20:46:59 <Diablo-D3> just other leaked shit
1015 2010-10-21 20:47:28 <ArtForz> still kinda hard to believe
1016 2010-10-21 20:47:45 <Diablo-D3> we'll know next month
1017 2010-10-21 20:47:53 <ArtForz> my guess is they'll pull a 5970
1018 2010-10-21 20:48:35 <ArtForz> heavily underclocked/undervolted dual cayman, with AIB 6970x2 versions
1019 2010-10-21 20:50:01 <ArtForz> imo the most fun part about 5970 is that it overclocks like hell
1020 2010-10-21 20:50:08 <Diablo-D3> probably
1021 2010-10-21 20:50:40 <ArtForz> all except one of my 5970s can hit 950MHz at 5870 voltage
1022 2010-10-21 20:51:11 <ArtForz> but that'S REALLY pushing the limits of the reference cooler
1023 2010-10-21 20:51:49 <Diablo-D3> btw, theres only like two or three third party coolers for 2x chips, right?
1024 2010-10-21 20:52:21 <ArtForz> for the 5970 there's *one* 3rd party air cooler, the accelero xtreme 5970, well-known for killing DVI ports
1025 2010-10-21 20:52:45 <Diablo-D3> ouch
1026 2010-10-21 20:52:59 <Diablo-D3> Ill just buy the fastest single chip solution then
1027 2010-10-21 20:53:06 <Diablo-D3> and see if I can fit my current thing on it
1028 2010-10-21 20:53:07 <ArtForz> and it's VRM cooling is *worse* than the stock cooler ...
1029 2010-10-21 20:53:12 <ArtForz> *its
1030 2010-10-21 20:53:38 <ArtForz> so it's pretty much stock cooler or waterblock
1031 2010-10-21 20:54:06 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1032 2010-10-21 20:54:12 <ArtForz> and a water setup for 2 or 4 cards isn't exactly pocket change
1033 2010-10-21 20:54:16 <Diablo-D3> yar
1034 2010-10-21 20:54:57 <ArtForz> btw, got first bunch of (cheap) flexible PCIe extenders today
1035 2010-10-21 20:55:52 <Diablo-D3> they any good?
1036 2010-10-21 20:56:05 <ArtForz> somewhat
1037 2010-10-21 20:56:47 <ArtForz> 5" cable, crappy shielding, appear to work reliably at x16 and gen1 = 2.5GT/s
1038 2010-10-21 20:57:40 <ArtForz> at gen2 speeds they're flaky as hell, look at the cable the wrong way and you get random crashes or links at x1 width
1039 2010-10-21 20:58:14 <ArtForz> well, they also were <$20 a pop
1040 2010-10-21 20:58:31 <ArtForz> so I didn't really expect anything different
1041 2010-10-21 20:58:41 <Diablo-D3> meh
1042 2010-10-21 20:58:58 <Diablo-D3> btw, its possible they're simply not designed for 2.0 in mind
1043 2010-10-21 20:59:02 <ArtForz> a decent 4" flexible gen2 riser is >$60
1044 2010-10-21 20:59:04 <Diablo-D3> remember, it doubles the speed
1045 2010-10-21 20:59:15 <ArtForz> which doesn't matter one bit for mining
1046 2010-10-21 20:59:27 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt matter anyhow
1047 2010-10-21 21:00:46 <ArtForz> I ran a 5970 at x4 gen1 for fun, 339827 khash/s/GPU vs. 340072 for x16 gen2
1048 2010-10-21 21:01:23 <ArtForz> of course OCed to 900 core
1049 2010-10-21 21:01:23 <Diablo-D3> the lower latency doesnt effect video cards usefully
1050 2010-10-21 21:01:32 <Diablo-D3> and they cant max x16 out usefully
1051 2010-10-21 21:01:56 <ArtForz> I guess you could run em at x1 gen1 and still lose <1% performance
1052 2010-10-21 21:02:44 <ArtForz> btw, prices for external PCIe expansion boxes are just fucking nuts
1053 2010-10-21 21:02:51 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1054 2010-10-21 21:03:29 <ArtForz> they're using off-the-shelf parts
1055 2010-10-21 21:04:20 <soma> do these cards provide more slots out of one or do you have a mobo with that many (8 or 9?) pcie-slots?
1056 2010-10-21 21:04:34 <ArtForz> basically dumb driver/equalizer chips on both ends of the cable and a PCIe switch chip
1057 2010-10-21 21:04:59 <ArtForz> and they don't even appear to use low-loss PCBs, plain ole FR4
1058 2010-10-21 21:07:36 <ArtForz> layout for PCIe isn't black magic, differential microstrip w/ 50/100 ohm single-ended/differential impedance
1059 2010-10-21 21:09:00 <ArtForz> so, just treat a PCIe lane like it's 2 differential microwave transmission lines, because thats what it is
1060 2010-10-21 21:09:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw the distance basically means 2.0 might be fucked anyhow
1061 2010-10-21 21:09:31 <ArtForz> nope
1062 2010-10-21 21:09:31 <Diablo-D3> you REALLY need the 8/10 encoding
1063 2010-10-21 21:09:39 <Diablo-D3> 2.0 has 8/10 optional
1064 2010-10-21 21:09:46 <ArtForz> you can do 2.0 over 30"
1065 2010-10-21 21:09:59 <ArtForz> and 8/10 isn't optional for 2.0, it wouldnt work without it
1066 2010-10-21 21:10:01 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but on an enclosure that isnt shit
1067 2010-10-21 21:10:09 <ArtForz> 30" of PCB that is
1068 2010-10-21 21:10:10 <Diablo-D3> I thought they made 8/10 optional?
1069 2010-10-21 21:10:18 <ArtForz> nope, 8/10 optional is for 3.0
1070 2010-10-21 21:10:19 <Diablo-D3> by optional, I mean its an optional feature
1071 2010-10-21 21:10:23 <Diablo-D3> ahh
1072 2010-10-21 21:10:28 <ArtForz> 1.0 and 2.0 require 8/10
1073 2010-10-21 21:10:28 <Diablo-D3> I knew it was in there somewhere >_>
1074 2010-10-21 21:11:07 <ArtForz> 3.0 will have 160/168 or something weird mandatory and 8/10 optional for 1.0/2.0 compatibilty
1075 2010-10-21 21:12:00 <ArtForz> you need some a DC-free encoding for PCIe, it's AC coupled
1076 2010-10-21 21:12:09 <Diablo-D3> anyhow
1077 2010-10-21 21:12:15 <Diablo-D3> we need better fucking systems
1078 2010-10-21 21:12:42 <ArtForz> there are solutions doing 2.0 over 5m of cable using nothing but analog amplifier/equalizer chips
1079 2010-10-21 21:12:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah but
1080 2010-10-21 21:13:05 <Diablo-D3> find someone that isnt selling shit
1081 2010-10-21 21:13:06 <Diablo-D3> for high prices
1082 2010-10-21 21:13:08 <Diablo-D3> cause its nuts
1083 2010-10-21 21:13:26 <ArtForz> yes, the pre-made stuff for industrial use is crazy
1084 2010-10-21 21:13:40 <Diablo-D3> all the fucking thing needs is a standard ATX PS, with a dummy block shoved on the ATX plug, and wired with only pci-e plugs
1085 2010-10-21 21:13:47 <Diablo-D3> (ie, no sata/mplex strands)
1086 2010-10-21 21:14:09 <ArtForz> a 4-lane bidirectional PCIe equalizer/redriver chip is < $15 for single unit quantities
1087 2010-10-21 21:14:20 <Teppy> Is ther eanything you need to do in 0.3.14 to get it to generate a pool of keys? Of just run it and it rearranges your wallet?
1088 2010-10-21 21:14:22 <ArtForz> < $9 for 1k quantities
1089 2010-10-21 21:14:38 <ArtForz> Teppy: seems to do it automagically
1090 2010-10-21 21:15:15 <ArtForz> a 24-lane 6-port PCIe switch IC is ~ $50 for single units, <$40 in 1k quantities
1091 2010-10-21 21:15:26 <Diablo-D3> you mean 6 slot?
1092 2010-10-21 21:15:30 <ArtForz> 6 port
1093 2010-10-21 21:15:52 <ArtForz> so you could do 5* x4 w/ x4 uplink
1094 2010-10-21 21:16:00 <ArtForz> or 4x x4 w/ 8x uplink
1095 2010-10-21 21:16:15 <ArtForz> or 2x x8 + 1x x4 w/ 4x uplink, ...
1096 2010-10-21 21:16:53 <Diablo-D3> oh, so groups of 4 lanes?
1097 2010-10-21 21:16:59 <ArtForz> yeah
1098 2010-10-21 21:17:06 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1099 2010-10-21 21:17:10 <Diablo-D3> and we only really NEED x4
1100 2010-10-21 21:17:18 <ArtForz> yep
1101 2010-10-21 21:17:22 <Diablo-D3> btw, are we limited to 4x uplink?
1102 2010-10-21 21:17:25 <Diablo-D3> er x4
1103 2010-10-21 21:17:31 <ArtForz> not really
1104 2010-10-21 21:17:35 <Diablo-D3> because 4x x4, with an x8 uplink
1105 2010-10-21 21:17:38 <Diablo-D3> so a box of four
1106 2010-10-21 21:17:43 <Diablo-D3> with the slots offset by threes
1107 2010-10-21 21:17:48 <ArtForz> yep
1108 2010-10-21 21:17:48 <Diablo-D3> ie, slot, blank, blank, slot
1109 2010-10-21 21:18:01 <Diablo-D3> that'd be the ultimate fuck you box
1110 2010-10-21 21:18:18 <Diablo-D3> I could put giant fin heatsinks on the 5970s
1111 2010-10-21 21:18:24 <Diablo-D3> and rig the box with thermal sensitive 120mm fans
1112 2010-10-21 21:18:44 <ArtForz> so, the ICs for that are <$100 total for a single unit
1113 2010-10-21 21:18:59 <ArtForz> the x8 external PCIe cable and receptables are somewhat expensive
1114 2010-10-21 21:19:16 <ArtForz> of course it wouldnt have to be very long
1115 2010-10-21 21:19:39 <ArtForz> even 1m would be fine
1116 2010-10-21 21:19:44 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1117 2010-10-21 21:19:52 <Diablo-D3> even half that would be fine
1118 2010-10-21 21:19:54 <Diablo-D3> one and a half feet
1119 2010-10-21 21:20:00 <ArtForz> yep
1120 2010-10-21 21:20:08 <Diablo-D3> big enough to sit the box on top of your motherfuck huge tower of doom
1121 2010-10-21 21:20:41 <ArtForz> $90 for a 1m x8 cable
1122 2010-10-21 21:20:54 <ArtForz> $12 for a receptable
1123 2010-10-21 21:21:29 <Diablo-D3> so
1124 2010-10-21 21:21:33 <Diablo-D3> we're back up to $500
1125 2010-10-21 21:21:35 <Diablo-D3> to make a profit
1126 2010-10-21 21:21:51 <ArtForz> thats all single unit prices I'd get from my distri
1127 2010-10-21 21:22:34 <ArtForz> PCBs arent too big, but microwave layout is a pain
1128 2010-10-21 21:23:33 <ArtForz> my guess is about $400 + PSU to build a single box
1129 2010-10-21 21:24:16 <ArtForz> beyond 50 or so it gets a lot cheaper
1130 2010-10-21 21:24:35 <Diablo-D3> people would hump you if you made those exactly the way I siad
1131 2010-10-21 21:24:46 <ArtForz> hehehe
1132 2010-10-21 21:25:02 <Diablo-D3> 4 slot, offset with two blanks between, mounts for 120mm fans, standard atx psu with all pci-e plugs hanging out of it
1133 2010-10-21 21:25:07 <ArtForz> yep
1134 2010-10-21 21:25:08 <Diablo-D3> and then x8 uplink
1135 2010-10-21 21:25:29 <ArtForz> yep
1136 2010-10-21 21:25:53 <ArtForz> cheap-bastard GPGPU HPC guys would start drooling
1137 2010-10-21 21:25:56 <Diablo-D3> doubly so if its 2.0
1138 2010-10-21 21:26:02 <Diablo-D3> yeah shit
1139 2010-10-21 21:26:04 <Diablo-D3> I imean
1140 2010-10-21 21:26:06 <Diablo-D3> take those boxes
1141 2010-10-21 21:26:07 <Diablo-D3> and then
1142 2010-10-21 21:26:17 <Diablo-D3> buy one of those 7x pci-e mobos
1143 2010-10-21 21:26:18 <Diablo-D3> and then
1144 2010-10-21 21:26:23 <Diablo-D3> ultimate fuck you works
1145 2010-10-21 21:26:25 <ArtForz> yep
1146 2010-10-21 21:26:55 <ArtForz> or just a plain ole 790FX board with 4* gen2 x8
1147 2010-10-21 21:27:08 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but the extra fun part is
1148 2010-10-21 21:27:16 <Diablo-D3> 120mm fans would blow all the fucking heat out the case
1149 2010-10-21 21:27:22 <ArtForz> yep
1150 2010-10-21 21:27:24 <Diablo-D3> infact, you wouldnt even need new heatsinks
1151 2010-10-21 21:27:31 <Diablo-D3> just take the plastic cases off the normal cards
1152 2010-10-21 21:27:34 <Diablo-D3> and leave the shit there
1153 2010-10-21 21:27:58 <ArtForz> actually stuff like the ref 5870/5970 heatsink should be fine
1154 2010-10-21 21:28:07 <Diablo-D3> thats what Im saying
1155 2010-10-21 21:28:16 <Diablo-D3> take the plastic case out and let the heat leak out
1156 2010-10-21 21:28:19 <Diablo-D3> you wouldnt NEED to
1157 2010-10-21 21:28:21 <Diablo-D3> but it'd be optimal
1158 2010-10-21 21:28:42 <ArtForz> their fans are ball-bearing units rated for 50k h @ 50???C
1159 2010-10-21 21:29:02 <ArtForz> was pretty suprised when I read the datasheet
1160 2010-10-21 21:29:43 <Diablo-D3> yeah but noise is going to be high
1161 2010-10-21 21:29:47 <ArtForz> who cares
1162 2010-10-21 21:30:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, I'd also do the back of the case using normal slots
1163 2010-10-21 21:30:07 <ArtForz> tesla deskside units arent exactly quiet either
1164 2010-10-21 21:30:14 <Dhaw> Hello! Hi, I am with the following error in bitcoin, and because of this I can not send my coins to anyone.  The message is: "warning: Transactions May Not Be displayed correct! You May need to upgrade, or other looked nodes need to upgrade May"
1165 2010-10-21 21:30:14 <Diablo-D3> as in
1166 2010-10-21 21:30:19 <Diablo-D3> slot, slot, slot, slot
1167 2010-10-21 21:30:23 <Diablo-D3> to install a card
1168 2010-10-21 21:30:31 <Diablo-D3> you go take out two slots
1169 2010-10-21 21:30:35 <Diablo-D3> even though you could take out three
1170 2010-10-21 21:30:43 <Diablo-D3> and the third is one of those air gap slots
1171 2010-10-21 21:30:47 <Diablo-D3> like I have on my p180b
1172 2010-10-21 21:30:50 <ArtForz> yep
1173 2010-10-21 21:31:19 <Dhaw> Hi, I am with the following error in bitcoin, and because of this I can not send my coins to anyone.  The message is: "warning: Transactions May Not Be displayed correct! You May need to upgrade, or other looked nodes need to upgrade May"
1174 2010-10-21 21:31:40 <ArtForz> also, with 3 120mm intake fans you should be able to install filters without toally killing airflow
1175 2010-10-21 21:32:12 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1176 2010-10-21 21:32:23 <Diablo-D3> Dhaw: what is your version?
1177 2010-10-21 21:32:24 <Dhaw> Peoples. please help me!
1178 2010-10-21 21:32:31 <ArtForz> you'll still need 3kRPM or so 120mmx25mm fans, but those should be pretty much inaudible over 4 GPU blower fans :P
1179 2010-10-21 21:32:52 <Dhaw> last version Diablo
1180 2010-10-21 21:32:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, 2krpm 120mm is already normal
1181 2010-10-21 21:32:55 <Diablo-D3> and I'd put 35mm in
1182 2010-10-21 21:33:05 <Dhaw> \\diablo-d3
1183 2010-10-21 21:33:05 <Diablo-D3> Dhaw: weird, you should not be seeing that error
1184 2010-10-21 21:33:11 <Diablo-D3> try the forum
1185 2010-10-21 21:33:20 <ArtForz> 38mm really wont do much good
1186 2010-10-21 21:33:20 <Diablo-D3> make sure you're actually on 0.3.13
1187 2010-10-21 21:33:26 <Dhaw> i'm try the forum
1188 2010-10-21 21:33:30 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: static air pressure
1189 2010-10-21 21:33:34 <Diablo-D3> cuts down on noise
1190 2010-10-21 21:33:47 <Dhaw> need to sell my coins, I would be very helped.
1191 2010-10-21 21:34:01 <appamatto> Dhaw, I'm pretty sure your coins aren't valid
1192 2010-10-21 21:34:06 <appamatto> based on what you said earlier
1193 2010-10-21 21:34:12 <Diablo-D3> yeah, it almost sounds like thats what happened
1194 2010-10-21 21:34:13 <ArtForz> I studied air pressure/flow charts, 25mm with similar wattage to 38mm does better at high counterpressure
1195 2010-10-21 21:34:23 <Diablo-D3> Dhaw: copy your wallet.dat out, and nuke your bitcoin config dir
1196 2010-10-21 21:34:27 <Diablo-D3> and then copy it back in
1197 2010-10-21 21:34:52 <Dhaw> ok
1198 2010-10-21 21:34:54 <Dhaw> try
1199 2010-10-21 21:35:28 <ArtForz> 38mm is only really useful if you have pretty unrestricted flow
1200 2010-10-21 21:35:57 <Kiba> Bitcoin GALORE!
1201 2010-10-21 21:36:04 <Kiba> look like we got our first entry
1202 2010-10-21 21:36:36 <ArtForz> well, 120x38 ius also useful for WTF fans
1203 2010-10-21 21:36:59 <theymos> Kiba: Why did you pick that phrase? It doesn't sound very catchy.
1204 2010-10-21 21:37:00 <ArtForz> you can't really build a 120x25 with more than 20W or so
1205 2010-10-21 21:37:15 <Kiba> theymos: I like it.
1206 2010-10-21 21:37:17 <Kiba> I don't know.
1207 2010-10-21 21:37:24 <Dhaw> Diablo-D3: I, the coins have disappeared, but the error continued.
1208 2010-10-21 21:37:43 <Diablo-D3> Dhaw: the coins will re-appear when your client reloads the current block list
1209 2010-10-21 21:37:45 <ArtForz> a 20W 120x25 is already north of 10kRPM, and ball bearing gets kinda iffy above that
1210 2010-10-21 21:37:46 <Diablo-D3> might take an hour or two
1211 2010-10-21 21:37:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, which is really more than we need
1212 2010-10-21 21:38:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: we need fan width, so like, 4x 120mm
1213 2010-10-21 21:38:07 <ArtForz> yep
1214 2010-10-21 21:38:18 <Diablo-D3> just needs to shove the air out of the case and turbo charge the stock blowers
1215 2010-10-21 21:38:38 <ArtForz> 3 or so 4-5W 120x25 should be fine for that
1216 2010-10-21 21:39:01 <Diablo-D3> 4
1217 2010-10-21 21:39:03 <Diablo-D3> one for each slot
1218 2010-10-21 21:39:13 <Diablo-D3> makes it even that way
1219 2010-10-21 21:39:16 <ArtForz> = cheap standard industrial fans
1220 2010-10-21 21:39:27 <Diablo-D3> btw, they'd have to be PWM-able
1221 2010-10-21 21:39:32 <ArtForz> why?
1222 2010-10-21 21:39:39 <Diablo-D3> controller knob.
1223 2010-10-21 21:39:48 <ArtForz> DC-DC step-down
1224 2010-10-21 21:40:08 <Diablo-D3> PWM-able fans are quieter at low RPM though
1225 2010-10-21 21:40:31 <Diablo-D3> which largely means the fan is designed wrong, but hey
1226 2010-10-21 21:40:32 <ArtForz> at idle you don't need the 120mm fans at all
1227 2010-10-21 21:40:38 <Diablo-D3> well
1228 2010-10-21 21:40:43 <Diablo-D3> if you wanna rig it that way
1229 2010-10-21 21:40:49 <Diablo-D3> er wait, cant
1230 2010-10-21 21:40:57 <Diablo-D3> I was going to say, sap the blower fan's plug
1231 2010-10-21 21:40:59 <Diablo-D3> but no room
1232 2010-10-21 21:41:08 <Diablo-D3> probably could just use standard temp meters
1233 2010-10-21 21:41:24 <Diablo-D3> actually
1234 2010-10-21 21:41:25 <Diablo-D3> Im being dumb
1235 2010-10-21 21:41:38 <Diablo-D3> you can monitor PSU watt usage in a round about way
1236 2010-10-21 21:41:42 <ArtForz> yep
1237 2010-10-21 21:41:58 <Diablo-D3> use a PSU that has a fan header for psu rpm monitoring
1238 2010-10-21 21:41:59 <ArtForz> or just have em software controlled
1239 2010-10-21 21:42:06 <Diablo-D3> when that cycles up, cycle up the fans
1240 2010-10-21 21:42:36 <ArtForz> all my non-PWM high-power fans are running off small DC-DC controllers controlled via USB
1241 2010-10-21 21:42:54 <Diablo-D3> heh
1242 2010-10-21 21:43:01 <ArtForz> microcontroller + FET driver + power mosfet + inductor + capacitor
1243 2010-10-21 21:43:01 <Diablo-D3> mine are done with a normal DC-DC controller
1244 2010-10-21 21:43:05 <Diablo-D3> so *shrug*
1245 2010-10-21 21:43:10 <ArtForz> = palin ole DC-DC step-down
1246 2010-10-21 21:43:13 <Diablo-D3> have a bunch of knobs =P
1247 2010-10-21 21:43:23 <Diablo-D3> and blue lights
1248 2010-10-21 21:43:31 <ArtForz> well, most normal fan controllers give up ~25W or so
1249 2010-10-21 21:43:44 <Diablo-D3> yeah, it runs off a single molex
1250 2010-10-21 21:43:51 <Diablo-D3> obviously we could do better here
1251 2010-10-21 21:43:58 <Diablo-D3> but no, I dont think USB controlled works
1252 2010-10-21 21:44:03 <Diablo-D3> this should require NO software
1253 2010-10-21 21:44:20 <ArtForz> well, just sense PSU load then
1254 2010-10-21 21:44:26 <Diablo-D3> yup
1255 2010-10-21 21:44:50 <Diablo-D3> though I _do_ like manual control
1256 2010-10-21 21:44:52 <ArtForz> my small fan controller is a 1.2" by 2.2" PCB and handles 5A continous no problem
1257 2010-10-21 21:45:00 <Diablo-D3> you know why?
1258 2010-10-21 21:45:01 <ArtForz> without a single heatsink in sight ;)
1259 2010-10-21 21:45:02 <Diablo-D3> no mooing.
1260 2010-10-21 21:45:12 <ArtForz> no mooing?
1261 2010-10-21 21:45:41 <ArtForz> no quack!
1262 2010-10-21 21:45:55 <Diablo-D3> mooing = the sound some fans do when cycling up
1263 2010-10-21 21:46:25 <ArtForz> that reminds me, I have to record that papst 22W spinnning up
1264 2010-10-21 21:47:42 <Diablo-D3> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/SPEq7ryAt1s/google-reader-pedal.html
1265 2010-10-21 21:47:43 <ArtForz> has a really weird sound
1266 2010-10-21 21:47:43 <Diablo-D3> fffffffff
1267 2010-10-21 21:48:14 <ArtForz> like a whine decreasing in pitch
1268 2010-10-21 21:48:21 <ArtForz> a bit like slowly increasing throttle on a cheap cordless drill
1269 2010-10-21 21:49:07 <ArtForz> my guess is built in soft-start
1270 2010-10-21 21:49:32 <ArtForz> oh, and the thing happily spins up at 4V and runs at 3V...
1271 2010-10-21 21:50:02 <Diablo-D3> nice
1272 2010-10-21 21:50:10 <Diablo-D3> I think mine wont start below 5v
1273 2010-10-21 21:50:18 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt matter, thats as far as my controller goes
1274 2010-10-21 21:50:30 <ArtForz> of course with the usual papst-awful bearing noise
1275 2010-10-21 21:50:56 <Diablo-D3> we'd need sane fans.
1276 2010-10-21 21:52:13 <ArtForz> btw, I finally know why papst fan bearings sound as  crappy as they do
1277 2010-10-21 21:52:29 <Diablo-D3> why?
1278 2010-10-21 21:52:31 <ArtForz> they use "loose" high temp ball bearings
1279 2010-10-21 21:52:40 <Diablo-D3> aaaahhhhh
1280 2010-10-21 21:52:44 <Diablo-D3> makes sense
1281 2010-10-21 21:52:47 <Diablo-D3> thermal expansion would blow them
1282 2010-10-21 21:53:03 <ArtForz> yep
1283 2010-10-21 21:53:29 <ArtForz> I guess that way they reduce risk of seizing significantly
1284 2010-10-21 21:54:25 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/playbiennial?feature=ticker
1285 2010-10-21 21:56:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you could pick appropriate fans though
1286 2010-10-21 22:25:52 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: most online escrows have automatic detection of shipping arrival, through the use of various USPS/UPS/FedEx/etc. shipping APIs.  If you continue with this service, I think most people would find that useful.
1287 2010-10-21 22:27:01 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: so the online escrows consider shipment of... something... enough to release payment?  Or do they require another step?
1288 2010-10-21 22:27:25 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: correct, it could be a box of rocks
1289 2010-10-21 22:27:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: usually there is a buyer approval step too, though
1290 2010-10-21 22:28:07 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: if buyer goes silent, seller gets cash after X days (x==30 or so)
1291 2010-10-21 22:28:29 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: hmmm.   Making shipping arrival trigger an "escrow will be released UNLESS you say otherwise" would be cool, and useful.
1292 2010-10-21 22:28:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: https://www.escrow.com/solutions/escrow/process-service.asp
1293 2010-10-21 22:29:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agreed
1294 2010-10-21 22:29:33 <gavinandresen> (my biggest worry is that the payer will just lose the URL to the escrow status page, and/or forget to release the funds)
1295 2010-10-21 22:31:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: the latter seems common, from my reading-between-the-lines.  hence the policy of paying the seller, if the buyer simply goes radio-silent.  As to losing the escrow permalink, you could permit sign-in via Google or Yahoo account over OpenID, to permit easier escrow access and recovery.
1296 2010-10-21 22:32:24 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Yeah, I think I'll have to encourage sign-in with either a Google account or OpenID.
1297 2010-10-21 22:32:27 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: most buyers know "pay seller, get item" and other details are easy to forget, I imagine.  To non-technical people (read: Aunt Tillie), clicking buttons is just extra work for obscure reasons.
1298 2010-10-21 22:32:48 <jgarzik> they got their Hello, Kitty lunchbox :)
1299 2010-10-21 22:33:34 <gavinandresen> Hopefully!  It'd be tragic if they got a Speed Racer lunchbox instead....
1300 2010-10-21 22:34:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: escrow.com has a great FAQ section that I found quite useful, when considering an escrow biz of my own.
1301 2010-10-21 22:34:55 <gavinandresen> Thanks for the pointer, I'll keep it bookmarked...
1302 2010-10-21 22:36:21 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: nice UI, btw.  looks quite usable.
1303 2010-10-21 22:37:06 <gavinandresen> Thanks!  I actually started with a more complicated scheme
1304 2010-10-21 22:37:58 <gavinandresen> (involving specifying how much you were going to pay in advance and some other stuff I realized wasn't really necessary)
1305 2010-10-21 22:38:31 <gavinandresen> I'm wondering if other use cases might evolve-- like "pay me half now, half on delivery"  (which can be done with the way it is now)
1306 2010-10-21 22:40:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yeah, a deposit + rest on completion is a common scenario
1307 2010-10-21 22:42:33 <gavinandresen> I wouldn't be surprised if it got used for something completely unexpected-- like maybe people creating escrows to themselves just to prove how many bitcoins they own... or something else weird...
1308 2010-10-21 22:43:15 <gavinandresen> It's actually not a bad way of "dirtying up" coins, either, although I'm not doing anything specific to make it a mixing service.
1309 2010-10-21 23:07:09 <noagendamarket> are you starting an escrow service gavin?
1310 2010-10-21 23:08:49 <jgarzik> noagendamarket: he posted https://clearcoin.appspot.com/ to IRC earlier, asking for IRC comments
1311 2010-10-21 23:10:01 <noagendamarket> jgarzik thanks
1312 2010-10-21 23:10:20 <noagendamarket> gavin that is awesome
1313 2010-10-21 23:15:10 <gavinandresen> Thanks.  It's running on the TEST network for now (so feel free to play with it, you can't lose coins)
1314 2010-10-21 23:21:56 <Diablo-D3> yup
1315 2010-10-21 23:21:58 <Diablo-D3> my mind
1316 2010-10-21 23:22:04 <Diablo-D3> is very minorly blown
1317 2010-10-21 23:22:19 <Diablo-D3> Ok Go performed live for youtube play
1318 2010-10-21 23:24:21 <noagendamarket> *sends himself a tip
1319 2010-10-21 23:36:53 <Diablo-D3> ;difficulty
1320 2010-10-21 23:36:59 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit is the bot dead again
1321 2010-10-21 23:37:20 <theymos> ;;bc,diff
1322 2010-10-21 23:37:21 <gribble> 2149.02181495
1323 2010-10-21 23:37:53 <Diablo-D3> I wanted the time part
1324 2010-10-21 23:37:55 <Diablo-D3> when it last went up
1325 2010-10-21 23:39:56 <theymos> It last went up at 86688.