1 2010-10-22 01:41:35 <Diablo-D3> http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/ati-radeon-hd-6870-and-hd-6850-review-roundup/
  2 2010-10-22 01:41:37 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ^
  3 2010-10-22 01:42:09 <kiba> so
  4 2010-10-22 01:42:24 <kiba> somebody was working on a chrome bounty after all
  5 2010-10-22 01:42:39 <kiba> he will duely receive his 300 BTC bounty soon....
  6 2010-10-22 01:42:50 <Diablo-D3> "So, just to restate, the new 6800 series will offer performance of the 5800 series, at a lower price, with lower power, and a smaller chip. "
  7 2010-10-22 01:43:09 <Diablo-D3> "There will be a Radeon HD 6850 targeted at the $179 price point, and a Radeon HD 6870 targeted at the $239 price point. These two cards replace the current 5800 series"
  8 2010-10-22 01:43:11 <Diablo-D3> jesus thats cheap
  9 2010-10-22 01:47:20 <Diablo-D3> "the Radeon HD 6870 should perform faster than the Radeon HD 5850 thanks to architecture improvements"
 10 2010-10-22 01:48:13 <Diablo-D3> yet same watt usage
 11 2010-10-22 01:48:29 <Diablo-D3> same temp too
 12 2010-10-22 01:49:43 <Diablo-D3> "In regards to the 6870, if you currently own a 5870 then the 6870 is not an upgrade, but if you own a 5850 or below, then the 6870 is an upgrade.
 13 2010-10-22 02:02:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, 3D benchmarks puts the 6870 and 5870 on top of each other
 14 2010-10-22 02:02:28 <Diablo-D3> but its cheaper and cooler
 15 2010-10-22 03:18:50 <Keefe> Diablo-D3: the last block before the recent diff increase:
 16 2010-10-22 03:18:55 <Keefe> http://blk.bitcoinwatch.com/b?h=86687
 17 2010-10-22 03:19:37 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: I want a datetime though
 18 2010-10-22 03:19:54 <Diablo-D3> oh it has one
 19 2010-10-22 03:20:40 <Diablo-D3> so yesterday
 20 2010-10-22 03:21:16 <Diablo-D3> it went up didnt it
 21 2010-10-22 03:21:53 <Keefe> Oct 21 12:02:23am
 22 2010-10-22 03:21:57 <Keefe> UTC
 23 2010-10-22 03:22:57 <Diablo-D3> meh
 24 2010-10-22 03:23:02 <Diablo-D3> I was at a block every 24 hours
 25 2010-10-22 03:23:05 <Diablo-D3> now Im up to 24+14
 26 2010-10-22 03:23:33 <Keefe> if i understand correctly, because the next block has a new 'bits', the change in difficulty took effect the moment 86687 was published
 27 2010-10-22 03:24:18 <Keefe> the recent diff increase offsets the increase in the exchange rate
 28 2010-10-22 03:25:08 <Keefe> so we generators are back to a similar $/day rate as a few weeks ago
 29 2010-10-22 03:25:56 <Keefe> nice info about the 6870, but i want a 6970 for $400
 30 2010-10-22 03:26:11 <Keefe> i have no idea when that will be out and what price it will be
 31 2010-10-22 03:32:56 <Keefe> or maybe it's 6990 i want. dunno yet. whatever is similar in performance to the 5970, but cheaper and uses less power
 32 2010-10-22 03:47:49 <Netsniper> i completed a block yesterday
 33 2010-10-22 03:48:43 <Keefe> congrats :)
 34 2010-10-22 03:50:59 <Keefe> just starting to read this article: http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/
 35 2010-10-22 03:51:33 <Keefe> looks pretty informative and detailed
 36 2010-10-22 03:51:40 <Keefe> just published today
 37 2010-10-22 03:53:14 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: the 6970 might be a single chip solution
 38 2010-10-22 03:54:50 <Keefe> ya, maybe 6990 is what i'm thinking of
 39 2010-10-22 04:02:04 <Diablo-D3> well, that might not even exist
 40 2010-10-22 04:02:31 <Diablo-D3> all we know is theres a card that has two chips, and the chips are codenamed antilles
 41 2010-10-22 04:02:40 <Diablo-D3> anything else is speculation
 42 2010-10-22 04:14:16 <Keefe> i thinik we'll get a good idea once Cayman is released
 43 2010-10-22 04:14:21 <Keefe> think*
 44 2010-10-22 04:15:01 <Keefe> cause their dual-chip product will probably be dual Cayman
 45 2010-10-22 04:15:25 <Keefe> the 5970 is dual Cypress (5870)
 46 2010-10-22 04:16:19 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: no
 47 2010-10-22 04:16:23 <Diablo-D3> the chip actually has its own name
 48 2010-10-22 04:16:25 <Diablo-D3> antilles
 49 2010-10-22 04:16:31 <Diablo-D3> no one is sure what it is
 50 2010-10-22 04:16:43 <Diablo-D3> barts and cayman are two different, but related archs
 51 2010-10-22 04:16:43 <Keefe> i think "Antilles" will be a name for dual Cayman, like Hemlock was a name for dual Cypress
 52 2010-10-22 04:16:53 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: well
 53 2010-10-22 04:16:55 <Diablo-D3> the problem is
 54 2010-10-22 04:17:03 <Diablo-D3> a lot of interesting rumors have surfaced
 55 2010-10-22 04:17:08 <Diablo-D3> some say its a dual cayman
 56 2010-10-22 04:17:13 <Diablo-D3> some say its a dual barts (wtf)
 57 2010-10-22 04:17:32 <Diablo-D3> and my favorite is the one where it connects a shitload of HTX lanes together between the chip to share memory banks
 58 2010-10-22 04:18:41 <Diablo-D3> or some other weird shit
 59 2010-10-22 04:19:06 <Diablo-D3> so
 60 2010-10-22 04:19:08 <Diablo-D3> I dunno.
 61 2010-10-22 04:31:16 <niekie> :o
 62 2010-10-22 04:32:27 <nathan7> =)
 63 2010-10-22 04:32:40 <nathan7> :oooo*
 64 2010-10-22 09:21:21 <Dhaw> Hi, does anyone help me?
 65 2010-10-22 09:25:01 <Wyborowa> hello
 66 2010-10-22 09:25:28 <Wyborowa> is any shop in php or ruby to use bitcoin?
 67 2010-10-22 09:25:40 <Wyborowa> What is identyficate transactions?
 68 2010-10-22 09:50:34 <ne0futur> the topic says 0.3.14 but the link points to 0.3.13
 69 2010-10-22 09:50:41 <ne0futur> is there a changelog somewhere ?
 70 2010-10-22 09:51:52 <kencausey> ne0futur: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1528.0
 71 2010-10-22 09:52:00 <ne0futur> ah yes thanks
 72 2010-10-22 09:52:19 <ne0futur> an op here should update the first link in the topic
 73 2010-10-22 09:52:42 <kencausey> nameless|: You forgot to fix the link after changing the release number.
 74 2010-10-22 09:53:11 <ne0futur> I shortened it to http://gw.gd/bc0314
 75 2010-10-22 09:54:12 <ne0futur> Im shorter than bitly :p
 76 2010-10-22 11:53:07 <Dhaw> Could anyone help me?
 77 2010-10-22 11:53:30 <kencausey> Dhaw: Help with waht?
 78 2010-10-22 11:53:33 <kencausey> s/waht/what/
 79 2010-10-22 11:54:39 <Dhaw> my bitcoin not sending currencies. Sending but not the person receives. It shows the following message: warning: Transactions May Not Be displayed correct! You May need to upgrade, or other looked nodes need to upgrade May
 80 2010-10-22 12:02:58 <Dhaw> Anyone help me? my bitcoin not sending currencies. Sending but not the person receives. It shows the following message: warning: Transactions May Not Be displayed correct! You May need to upgrade, or other looked nodes need to upgrade May
 81 2010-10-22 12:03:06 <kencausey> Dhaw: What version are you running?
 82 2010-10-22 12:03:14 <Dhaw> 0.3.14
 83 2010-10-22 12:03:18 <kencausey> Dhaw: be patient, you don't need to repeat yourself
 84 2010-10-22 12:03:26 <Dhaw> Ok, sorry.
 85 2010-10-22 12:03:46 <kencausey> Dhaw: OK, give more detail, how you are you trying to send?  using an IP address?
 86 2010-10-22 12:04:10 <kencausey> does it really say 'upgrade May' and end there?
 87 2010-10-22 12:05:01 <Dhaw> The msg: warning: displayed transactions may not be correct! you may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade
 88 2010-10-22 12:06:06 <doublec> there's a thread in the forums about it
 89 2010-10-22 12:06:31 <Dhaw> Yes.
 90 2010-10-22 12:06:33 <doublec> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1530.
 91 2010-10-22 12:06:57 <kencausey> Which Dhaw started
 92 2010-10-22 12:07:14 <kencausey> Dhaw: You really should have pointed that out
 93 2010-10-22 12:07:22 <redengin> lol
 94 2010-10-22 12:07:43 <Dhaw> How?
 95 2010-10-22 12:08:06 <redengin> dhaw, you should ask dhaw, he's already started a forum thread    :P
 96 2010-10-22 12:08:43 <doublec> Dhaw, what happened when you tried using the existing wallet.dat with the coins with a new installation of bitcoin?
 97 2010-10-22 12:09:26 <Dhaw> the coins have disappeared, and the transactions that were tried to send as unconfirmed.
 98 2010-10-22 12:09:47 <doublec> ok
 99 2010-10-22 12:10:49 <doublec> it is only the wallet.dat you copied over, right?
100 2010-10-22 12:10:52 <doublec> not the other files
101 2010-10-22 12:11:10 <Dhaw> yes
102 2010-10-22 12:11:40 <Dhaw> transactions appear as unconfirmed.
103 2010-10-22 12:12:11 <Dhaw> bitcoin in, he is not generating more than 1698 blocks, it stops after this number to generate
104 2010-10-22 12:12:27 <doublec> it is weird what theymos says about the block count in his comment
105 2010-10-22 12:12:29 <doublec> how it went backwards
106 2010-10-22 12:12:55 <doublec> and why 1698? that's low.
107 2010-10-22 12:12:56 <Dhaw> I'm send all files to theymos
108 2010-10-22 12:13:04 <gavinandresen> Dhaw: did you generate all of these bitcoins on your own machines, or did you buy them from other people?
109 2010-10-22 12:13:19 <Dhaw> generall in my machine
110 2010-10-22 12:13:37 <Dhaw> generate all in my machine*
111 2010-10-22 12:13:41 <doublec> these aren't all somehow generated on a different bitcoin network like the test network?
112 2010-10-22 12:13:47 <gavinandresen> Dhaw:  Ok, I think what happened is that those coins you THOUGHT you were generating properly were not being generated properly.
113 2010-10-22 12:14:35 <Dhaw> Because?
114 2010-10-22 12:14:51 <gavinandresen> Dhaw:  ... either because of a bug we haven't seen before (I'll let theymos to more investigating) or because your machines aren't properly connected to the rest of the bitcoin network
115 2010-10-22 12:15:01 <Dhaw> the program shows 420 transactions.
116 2010-10-22 12:15:29 <gavinandresen> All of those transactions are almost certainly invalid, because your generated coins are not valid.
117 2010-10-22 12:15:51 <Dhaw> I have about three months creating these coins can not lose.
118 2010-10-22 12:15:55 <doublec> gavinandresen, so Dhaw was effectively generating his own chain of blocks, seperate from the 'real' one?
119 2010-10-22 12:16:23 <gavinandresen> doublec:  yes, I'm pretty certain that is what happened.
120 2010-10-22 12:16:44 <doublec> it does sound like it - which definitely sucks for dhaw
121 2010-10-22 12:17:12 <Dhaw> =(
122 2010-10-22 12:17:38 <Dhaw> I can not lose my coins, long time to achieve, and this because of a bug.
123 2010-10-22 12:18:35 <doublec> the sign that something was wrong is that you only had 1690 blocks or so, vs the 86000 or whatever it is at now
124 2010-10-22 12:18:48 <gavinandresen> Dhaw:  well, if it is any comfort, if you WERE generating real bitcoins you would have generated much, much fewer.  (how many machines were you generating on?  A typical machine will only generate maybe 200-300 bitcoins in two or three months)
125 2010-10-22 12:19:40 <gavinandresen> The client should disallow generation until you have all the blocks up to the last block checkpoint.
126 2010-10-22 12:19:45 <doublec> yes
127 2010-10-22 12:20:08 <gavinandresen> I'll poke Satoshi about that...
128 2010-10-22 12:20:16 <doublec> Dhaw, did you used to run bitcoin without any conections originally?
129 2010-10-22 12:20:56 <Dhaw> Double, how?
130 2010-10-22 12:21:24 <doublec> I don't know, just trying to see how this could have happened
131 2010-10-22 12:21:41 <doublec> Is there anything unusual about your network setup basically?
132 2010-10-22 12:22:01 <Dhaw> No, all ok.
133 2010-10-22 12:22:05 <Dhaw> Theymos testing
134 2010-10-22 12:22:23 <Dhaw> Theymos tested this.
135 2010-10-22 12:22:34 <doublec> Like did you run it disconnected from the internet for a few weeks, then connected or something
136 2010-10-22 12:23:18 <doublec> was it only one machine?
137 2010-10-22 12:23:25 <Dhaw> yes
138 2010-10-22 12:28:32 <doublec> it sounds like a good idea to occasionally send coins to people or use bitcoin services to make sure your generated coins are live
139 2010-10-22 12:29:06 <Dhaw> I tried to send, but people did not.
140 2010-10-22 12:30:37 <doublec> you must have been generating coins at a pretty fast rate if you were on a block chain where you were the only one generating
141 2010-10-22 12:31:20 <doublec> wouldn't you have been getting 50 coins every 10 minutes basically?
142 2010-10-22 12:32:41 <gavinandresen> doublec: no, initial block difficulty is high enough that one machine can't keep up with "difficult 1.0"  (well, a GPU probably could...)
143 2010-10-22 12:32:47 <doublec> ok
144 2010-10-22 12:33:03 <doublec> My other thought was there are others out there contributing to this same chain
145 2010-10-22 12:33:03 <gavinandresen> (if you look at difficulty history, it was actually 1.0 for quite a while in the beginning)
146 2010-10-22 12:37:38 <Dhaw> Double, i'm receive 50 every 10 minutes or more i think
147 2010-10-22 12:39:24 <doublec> that should have be somewhat of a warning sign
148 2010-10-22 12:39:44 <doublec> given that everyone on the forums and here talks about how it takes over a month on a standard machine to generate 50 coins
149 2010-10-22 12:40:26 <doublec> why would people want to buy coins at 10c per coin if they could generate 50 in 10 minutes?
150 2010-10-22 12:42:29 <doublec> I can understand how frustrating it is for you though to have hit this issue
151 2010-10-22 12:43:44 <kencausey> Wow, indeed even months ago it took me days to generate 1 block/50BTC
152 2010-10-22 12:43:51 <kencausey> it would be weeks now
153 2010-10-22 12:44:37 <Dhaw> i'm leave now
154 2010-10-22 12:44:38 <Dhaw> Cya
155 2010-10-22 12:44:41 <Dhaw> Thank you
156 2010-10-22 12:45:28 <doublec> on the positive side we know the network deals nicely with people trying to send from wrong chains
157 2010-10-22 12:50:29 <kencausey> indeed, although it's not the first time
158 2010-10-22 12:51:20 <kencausey> So, it would be curious to know why Dhaw was generating blocks at 'light speed' so to speak
159 2010-10-22 12:55:29 <doublec> if you start downloading blocks, get disconnected, and then start generating, will that form a new chain?
160 2010-10-22 13:06:26 <doublec> maybe dhaw modified their client thinking they'd found a way to make things generate faster but didn't realise they were generating bad coins
161 2010-10-22 14:17:50 <vezeena> ;bcm
162 2010-10-22 14:19:10 <genjix> ;bcm
163 2010-10-22 14:19:14 <genjix> ;bcm
164 2010-10-22 14:20:03 <genjix> ;bcw
165 2010-10-22 14:20:49 <genjix> "1 US dollar is worth 9.90 BTC"
166 2010-10-22 14:21:09 <genjix> why is the price of BTC climbing so fast?
167 2010-10-22 14:21:23 <genjix> a few days ago it was 13 btc / $1
168 2010-10-22 14:23:29 <Netsniper> genjix: i called it 2 weeks ago
169 2010-10-22 14:23:51 <genjix> called what?
170 2010-10-22 14:23:57 <theymos> I agree. Adoption seems to have *slowed* recently. I'm not selling, though; I've already been burned by selling too early.
171 2010-10-22 14:24:33 <genjix> not gonna let it go ever :p
172 2010-10-22 14:25:20 <UukGoblin> ;estimate
173 2010-10-22 14:26:09 <genjix> hashing is like the lottery
174 2010-10-22 14:26:18 <genjix> u either win or u dont#
175 2010-10-22 14:26:37 <UukGoblin> disagree
176 2010-10-22 14:26:49 <UukGoblin> I never won anything significant at a lottery
177 2010-10-22 14:26:56 <grondilu> I know.  I don't care anyway.  I have money to spend and I'll buy my bitcoins.
178 2010-10-22 14:27:27 <grondilu> but it would be nice if could generate a few of them :)
179 2010-10-22 14:33:41 <theymos> I wish I could legally sell my vote. That sounds like a fun thing to use Bitcoin for.
180 2010-10-22 14:36:05 <grondilu> theymos: if vote wasn't anonymous, you could.  Personnaly I think it would be a good thing.
181 2010-10-22 14:40:28 <forthright> anybody want to add some bugs to the bug tracker for me (code review)
182 2010-10-22 14:42:01 <theymos> There is no bug tracker. Email Satoshi.
183 2010-10-22 14:42:16 <forthright> ok
184 2010-10-22 14:46:07 <forthright> I wish voting was weighted by taxes paid.
185 2010-10-22 14:46:46 <gavinandresen> I wish we could directly vote for where our taxes get spent
186 2010-10-22 14:47:47 <theymos> gavinandresen: That would be a disaster. Most people are unable to manage their *own* money.
187 2010-10-22 14:48:00 <forthright> uh, then its not taxes, because you have control over the products of your labor.  Taxes are all about the mob taking control of the products of your labor. duh.
188 2010-10-22 14:48:03 <gavinandresen> theymos: you don't buy into the 'wisdom of crowds' ?
189 2010-10-22 14:49:11 <theymos> gavinandresen: Depends on the crowd. Maybe small populations can do it, but it works poorly in large societies.
190 2010-10-22 14:49:42 <forthright> sorry for my rudeness, cheers, back to porting bitcoin to c#
191 2010-10-22 14:49:49 <gavinandresen> theymos: what do you think would happen?  Everybody votes to....  fund the military?   fund welfare?  Buy kittens and puppies?
192 2010-10-22 14:50:09 <forthright> I'd vote to give my money back to myself.
193 2010-10-22 14:50:15 <gavinandresen> forthright:  cheers.  And by the way:
194 2010-10-22 14:50:49 <gavinandresen> forthright:  Satoshi was looking for people to code review, so keep it up!
195 2010-10-22 14:51:06 <theymos> gavinandresen: Example: In Milwaukee, WI they had a referrendum on whether to raise the minimum wage to some ungodly level. It passed, of course, and now Milwaukee is basically a dead zone for business.
196 2010-10-22 14:51:44 <gavinandresen> theymos:  have you read The Myth of the Rational Voter?  Great book... (and supports your thesis)
197 2010-10-22 14:52:49 <gavinandresen> theymos: although for that particular example, if people had to vote to direct tax money to give people making less than the 'new' minimum wage, it probably wouldn't fly
198 2010-10-22 14:53:55 <forthright> actually my proposal for voting is: you vote with any amount of money you want, which goes in an escrow account.  You assign how much of the money in the escrow account you would give to the government if each candidate would win.  If such a candidate wins, you loose that money, it goes to the government.  If no such candidate wins, or not all of the money was assigned to winning candidates, you get that money back.
199 2010-10-22 14:54:51 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: dude
200 2010-10-22 14:54:57 <gavinandresen> forthright:  I'd vote for that.  But I'm a greedy, heartless, capitalist bastard.
201 2010-10-22 14:55:03 <Diablo-D3> you dont need a BOOK
202 2010-10-22 14:55:05 <Diablo-D3> to tell you
203 2010-10-22 14:55:13 <Diablo-D3> rational voters are a myth
204 2010-10-22 14:55:31 <Diablo-D3> example: EVERYBODY WHO VOTED FOR BUSH
205 2010-10-22 14:56:09 <forthright> ... back to coding : O
206 2010-10-22 14:56:10 <Diablo-D3> another example: EVERYBODY WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA BECAUSE HES NOT BUSH OR REPUBLICAN, NOT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS GOOD
207 2010-10-22 14:56:21 <theymos> gavinandresen: I haven't read that, but I've read/heard a lot about rational ignorance in voting (and other flaws with democracy) at mises.org.
208 2010-10-22 14:56:33 <gavinandresen> Uh, oh, getting close to a muddy fight about politics.........
209 2010-10-22 14:56:43 <Diablo-D3> its not a muddy fight
210 2010-10-22 14:56:46 <Diablo-D3> all politicians are bad
211 2010-10-22 14:56:54 <Diablo-D3> anyone who votes for one should be thrown out of the country
212 2010-10-22 14:57:50 <gavinandresen> theymos: Bryan Caplan wrote it, good read, he cites survey data to tease out several biases (like anti-foreign bias) that lead "us" to bad policy decisions.
213 2010-10-22 14:58:58 <gavinandresen> Diablo-D3:  Power corrupts.  And absolute power corrupts absolutely.  True when Lord Acton said it way back when, true today...
214 2010-10-22 14:59:42 <gavinandresen> (it is weird how political power is running in families these days, though-- Bushes, Clintons, even Ron and Rand Paul...)
215 2010-10-22 15:00:48 <theymos> Kennedy...
216 2010-10-22 15:01:30 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: not at all
217 2010-10-22 15:01:34 <Diablo-D3> power does nothing for me
218 2010-10-22 15:30:08 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: thanks for writing the RPC SSL wiki page, it's helpful.
219 2010-10-22 15:30:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: will post satoshi-clean listtransactions during today's coding period
220 2010-10-22 15:30:40 <gavinandresen> Mostly selfish reasons, I woulda forgot all that stuff if I hadn't wrote it down...
221 2010-10-22 15:31:40 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: cool.  I'm teaching my txToJSON code to spit out mapWallet.mapValue comments in the other window
222 2010-10-22 15:53:13 <nameless> |kencausey: STOP MAKING ME DO WORK :p
223 2010-10-22 15:59:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: which git repo / branch includes txToJSON?
224 2010-10-22 16:00:09 <gavinandresen> monitorreceived branch of my github... although I'm tracking down a bug right now (gettransaction isn't working right)
225 2010-10-22 16:01:50 <Teppy> jgarzik: Know if satoshi's version will have the comments available?
226 2010-10-22 16:02:44 <jgarzik> Teppy: satoshi's version of what?  none of this is upstream
227 2010-10-22 16:03:09 <Teppy> "satoshi-clean listtransactions"
228 2010-10-22 16:03:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: git://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git.git ?
229 2010-10-22 16:03:43 <jgarzik> Teppy: who knows if he'll take it :/
230 2010-10-22 16:03:58 <jgarzik> Teppy: I will be adding comments to my version, yes
231 2010-10-22 16:04:03 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: yup
232 2010-10-22 16:04:34 <Teppy> Thanks, jgarzik
233 2010-10-22 16:04:43 <Teppy> Solved a major problem.
234 2010-10-22 16:12:30 <Wyborowa> What is identyficate transactions?
235 2010-10-22 16:12:33 <Wyborowa> is any shop in php or ruby to use bitcoin?
236 2010-10-22 16:13:38 <jackmcbarn> if im on 0.3.13, is an update to 0.3.14 essential?
237 2010-10-22 16:15:52 <theymos> jackmcbarn: Not essential, but it has a nice feature that allows you to back up less frequently.
238 2010-10-22 16:39:59 <Teppy> Are there publicly available OpenCL miners yet? I haven't been following that.
239 2010-10-22 16:57:20 <jgarzik> Teppy: yes
240 2010-10-22 16:58:01 <jgarzik> Teppy: you want git://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm.git + m0mchil's "getwork" RPC patch to bitcoin
241 2010-10-22 16:59:02 <Teppy> Ok, might fool with that over the weekend.
242 2010-10-22 17:19:41 <kencausey> nameless|: Thanks, but no promises ;)
243 2010-10-22 18:37:17 <mwillis> Howdy
244 2010-10-22 20:08:45 <Teppy> Not quite done, but getting close:
245 2010-10-22 20:08:51 <Teppy> http://www.dragons.tl.com
246 2010-10-22 20:09:11 <Teppy> Er
247 2010-10-22 20:09:19 <Teppy> http://www.dragons.tl
248 2010-10-22 20:12:35 <theymos> Teppy: Are you ever going to do horse racing (or similar) with Dragon's Tale?
249 2010-10-22 20:12:57 <Teppy> Not horses, but beetles...
250 2010-10-22 20:13:28 <Teppy> That's going to be a skill-based game - I'm taking a break from the purely luck-based stuff for a few days now...
251 2010-10-22 20:15:22 <theymos> Ah, I see it listed on the games page.
252 2010-10-22 20:15:25 <Teppy> A beetle race consists of probably 10 beetles that start at random locations on a board.
253 2010-10-22 20:15:43 <Teppy> Each beetle has a different personality.
254 2010-10-22 20:16:25 <Teppy> So maybe the red checkered beetle has a trait like "When I'm near another beetle, I move quickly"
255 2010-10-22 20:17:20 <Teppy> And maybe the yellow striped one has the trait "When I'm near another beetle I spray my blinding mist is I haven't done so in the last 10 seconds"
256 2010-10-22 20:17:51 <Teppy> So there will be a bunch of traits, and beetles can have 1 or more traits.
257 2010-10-22 20:18:07 <Teppy> The beetles starting positions will be randomized, and betting will be paramutual style.
258 2010-10-22 20:18:51 <Teppy> So by knowing beetles' traits and being able to analyze starting conditions, smart players should have a >100% return.
259 2010-10-22 20:19:17 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/1Hu18Z7E
260 2010-10-22 20:20:21 <Teppy> There's 3 skill-based games now, and 2 more in the works.
261 2010-10-22 20:20:29 <theymos> Teppy: Are you going to have a "side-bet" system so that observers can place bets on who will win multi-player games?
262 2010-10-22 20:20:34 <Teppy> And about 8 luck-based games.
263 2010-10-22 20:21:17 <Teppy> Probably not a side bet system - I want each piece of content to be really clean and simple to grasp in it's entirety.
264 2010-10-22 20:21:54 <Teppy> If there are certain games that are more complicated, then that's OK, as long as they don't creep out into other simple games.
265 2010-10-22 20:22:11 <Teppy> But what I will have...
266 2010-10-22 20:22:21 <Teppy> (And I'm just coding this today)
267 2010-10-22 20:22:53 <Kiba> Teppy: care to tell us how much bitcoin you made from this mmo of your?
268 2010-10-22 20:23:06 <Teppy> I've made 180 BTC so far.
269 2010-10-22 20:23:26 <Teppy> Is a way for accomplished players to own either individual games, or whole areas. When you own a game, you split the profit 50/50 with the house.
270 2010-10-22 20:23:44 <Kiba> cool
271 2010-10-22 20:23:51 <Kiba> how much does it cost to own an area?
272 2010-10-22 20:23:58 <Teppy> (You are never exposed to loss when you own a game; I need to be sure the 50/50 part doesn't tread into "Gambler's Ruin" territory.)
273 2010-10-22 20:24:32 <Teppy> It won't cost anything directly...
274 2010-10-22 20:24:57 <Kiba> ?
275 2010-10-22 20:25:03 <Kiba> I thought you rent a game?
276 2010-10-22 20:25:08 <Teppy> You'll be able to own things by getting achievements within the game.
277 2010-10-22 20:25:26 <Kiba> hmm
278 2010-10-22 20:25:29 <Kiba> that remind me
279 2010-10-22 20:25:34 <Teppy> So right now we have an achievement "Won Jackpots in 5+ different games"
280 2010-10-22 20:25:44 <Kiba> I was thinking of constructing a simple arcade MMO
281 2010-10-22 20:25:54 <Teppy> That one gets you into a "VIP" section where the skill-based games are.
282 2010-10-22 20:26:33 <Kiba> the game design of all my arcade game will force players to buy upgrades to survive
283 2010-10-22 20:26:36 <Teppy> Oh, an arcade MMO would be a *killer* game. Very hard to do securely though, if that's a concern.
284 2010-10-22 20:26:37 <Kiba> hehehehehe
285 2010-10-22 20:27:23 <Kiba> it's more like I develop all the arcade and stuff
286 2010-10-22 20:27:42 <Kiba> maybe, a revenue sharing agreement when somebody really do want to put a game there
287 2010-10-22 20:27:51 <Kiba> it'll be all open source too
288 2010-10-22 20:27:59 <Teppy> Here's the difficulty with doing twitch games in an MMO:
289 2010-10-22 20:28:21 <Teppy> You can never trust the data stream coming from the user.
290 2010-10-22 20:28:48 <Teppy> So imagine that Pac Man was one of the games...
291 2010-10-22 20:29:21 <Teppy> Writing a bot to play Pac Man isn't all that hard. At least one person will figure it out and share the code.
292 2010-10-22 20:29:27 <Kiba> well, I was developing a tetris game, a precursor to the mmo...need to finish
293 2010-10-22 20:29:50 <OneFixt> Kiba: I am sorry to say that it will be botted. By me. Within a day of the release.
294 2010-10-22 20:30:00 <OneFixt> <3
295 2010-10-22 20:30:28 <Teppy> There are games that are bot-resistant of course...
296 2010-10-22 20:30:29 <Kiba> Teppy: I don't see how it can be overcomed
297 2010-10-22 20:30:44 <OneFixt> I am working on a game involving physics, and the physics will all be verified on the server.
298 2010-10-22 20:31:13 <Teppy> The most common example is Go.
299 2010-10-22 20:32:08 <OneFixt> I wish there were a way to make a tetris-like game non-bottable.
300 2010-10-22 20:32:19 <OneFixt> But I can't imagine a way to do it.
301 2010-10-22 20:32:54 <Teppy> You could probably tweek Tetris somehow: Optimal play is NP complete, but human aren't necessarily better at NP complete problems than computers.
302 2010-10-22 20:33:14 <Teppy> However, humans *are* better at scheduling problems!
303 2010-10-22 20:33:55 <Kiba> Guess where humans are hiding could be a fun game
304 2010-10-22 20:34:00 <Kiba> err
305 2010-10-22 20:34:03 <Kiba> where players are hidding
306 2010-10-22 20:34:08 <OneFixt> Hide & Seek?
307 2010-10-22 20:34:12 <Teppy> So, 50 trucks, 100 cities, 400 packages, 400 destinations a road system linking the cities, where the goal is to minimize miles driven: Humans can do that problem better than computers!
308 2010-10-22 20:34:22 <OneFixt> Travelling salesman?
309 2010-10-22 20:34:25 <Kiba> yes. a simple choice...
310 2010-10-22 20:34:37 <Teppy> No, different class of problem than TSP.
311 2010-10-22 20:34:52 <Kiba> taxi game
312 2010-10-22 20:34:56 <OneFixt> hmm
313 2010-10-22 20:34:58 <Kiba> carry players to different part of the game
314 2010-10-22 20:35:01 <Kiba> the mmo
315 2010-10-22 20:37:17 <Kiba> people don't have user interface to click and buy upgrades
316 2010-10-22 20:37:27 <Kiba> they go to the game supermarket to do it
317 2010-10-22 20:37:35 <Kiba> but they have to compete with other players
318 2010-10-22 20:38:00 <Kiba> basically, they have to rush their shoppign carts, avoid crashing, and so forth
319 2010-10-22 20:38:12 <Kiba> crashing the cart get you kicked out
320 2010-10-22 20:40:51 <Kiba> so yeah, pretty much almost everything is a game
321 2010-10-22 20:41:43 <Teppy> Gotta head home for now, but let's plan a play session for the skill-based games early next week...
322 2010-10-22 20:42:28 <Teppy> BTW, OneFixt: Any progress on the solver for the fishing game?
323 2010-10-22 20:42:52 <OneFixt> No, sorry - had to take a break.
324 2010-10-22 20:43:10 <theymos> I see Urban Rivals as one of the best examples of how to make money with games. They make it possible to win without paying, and don't even give paying players a great advantage, but they incentivize paying by allowing you to advance faster and participate in the market.
325 2010-10-22 20:43:11 <OneFixt> I'll let you know when I have an update.
326 2010-10-22 20:44:04 <Teppy> Someone from the office played for a while and the cost went down to 2.22, then I played for about 100 casts and it went up to 2.32, and that's with quite a bit of historical data...
327 2010-10-22 20:44:17 <Teppy> (And I know I wasn't playing optimally)
328 2010-10-22 20:44:38 <Teppy> What is Urban Rivals?
329 2010-10-22 20:44:58 <theymos> Trading card game: http://www.urban-rivals.com/
330 2010-10-22 20:45:17 <OneFixt> Can you sell anything for $ in that game?
331 2010-10-22 20:45:41 <theymos> No.
332 2010-10-22 20:46:29 <Teppy> Yeah, I'm actually thinking of making the games that are no-risk-for-the-house be 100% return.
333 2010-10-22 20:47:10 <Teppy> Psychologically there's a huge difference between "House returns 95%" and "House returns 100%"
334 2010-10-22 20:49:52 <Teppy> Ok, really heading home now :)
335 2010-10-22 20:51:25 <OneFixt> Teppy: Hmm, I may have just thought of a way to solve the fish game...
336 2010-10-22 20:51:35 <OneFixt> I'll let you know tonight.
337 2010-10-22 20:56:22 <Kiba> hey guys
338 2010-10-22 20:56:28 <Kiba> where is bitcoin.conf located?
339 2010-10-22 20:58:03 <theymos> ~/.bitcoin/ . I don't think it exists by default.
340 2010-10-22 20:59:08 <echelon> yeah, you have to create it yourself
341 2010-10-22 21:00:20 <Kiba> ok
342 2010-10-22 21:00:23 <Kiba> done
343 2010-10-22 21:00:29 <Kiba> now I can test the bitcoin extension...
344 2010-10-22 21:31:12 <Kiba> so a chromium is now available
345 2010-10-22 21:31:21 <Kiba> make it much easier to send bitcoins...if it work
346 2010-10-22 21:49:13 <eureka^> chuck norris can slam a revolving door
347 2010-10-22 21:49:30 <Kiba> CHUCK NORRIS
348 2010-10-22 21:51:33 <eureka^> chuck norris knows who generated those bitcoins.
349 2010-10-22 21:52:38 <AAA_awright> Chuck Norris is so rich owns a hundred trillion Bitcoins
350 2010-10-22 21:52:44 <AAA_awright> ...that failed
351 2010-10-22 21:54:16 <eureka^> it's okay, you tried ;)
352 2010-10-22 22:36:35 <OneFixt> Chuck Norris can generate at 1000Mhash.
353 2010-10-22 22:36:37 <OneFixt> In his head.
354 2010-10-22 22:52:07 <Diablo-D3> chuck norris already mined all the coins
355 2010-10-22 22:52:20 <Diablo-D3> hes just loaning them to us
356 2010-10-22 22:52:56 <gavinandresen> Chuck Norris doesn't need bitcoins; he just TAKES WHAT HE WANTS WHENEVER HE WANTS
357 2010-10-22 22:55:46 <Diablo-D3> not true
358 2010-10-22 22:55:57 <Diablo-D3> he created the entire universe
359 2010-10-22 22:56:29 <gavinandresen> Blasphemy!  Or are you saying Chuck Norris is the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
360 2010-10-22 22:56:41 <Diablo-D3> fsm is his gay cousin.
361 2010-10-22 22:56:54 <gavinandresen> ah, it's all clear now
362 2010-10-22 23:01:21 <Teppy> Chuck Norris has already generated 22 million Bitcoins
363 2010-10-22 23:03:41 <Diablo-D3> I said that
364 2010-10-22 23:37:35 <OneFixt> http://www.icoins.com/index.html
365 2010-10-22 23:37:45 <OneFixt> http://www.facebook.com/coinjar#!/coinjar?v=app_6489937223
366 2010-10-22 23:37:57 <OneFixt> Free payments... sounds like a competitor?
367 2010-10-22 23:43:21 <Kiba> doesn't explain it too well
368 2010-10-22 23:43:31 <Kiba> I assume they using pre-existing USD or something
369 2010-10-22 23:43:36 <Kiba> more like paypal than bitcoin
370 2010-10-22 23:49:27 <OneFixt> true, fee-less paypal