1 2010-11-16 00:02:35 <Diablo-D3> http://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/e6app/eff_begins_accepting_disruptive_new_p2p_currency/
  2 2010-11-16 00:02:37 <Diablo-D3> 99
  3 2010-11-16 00:02:51 <alystair> wait... what.
  4 2010-11-16 00:05:47 <Kiba> MEDIA storm
  5 2010-11-16 00:17:46 <brucewagner> hey
  6 2010-11-16 00:19:20 <jgarzik> hay
  7 2010-11-16 00:21:25 <Kiba> hello
  8 2010-11-16 00:22:01 <Kiba> look like that bitcoin article kick up a media storm
  9 2010-11-16 00:23:03 <Kiba> but the job is not done
 10 2010-11-16 00:23:08 <Kiba> especially with the people at the CCC
 11 2010-11-16 00:23:55 <jgarzik> Kiba: which bitcoin article?  which media storm?  :)
 12 2010-11-16 00:24:50 <Kiba> bitcoin blogger article
 13 2010-11-16 00:26:26 <hadronzoo> Is bitcoin compatible with FileVault? Whenever I run it, it brings my machine to its knees
 14 2010-11-16 00:27:00 <Kiba> what is filevault?
 15 2010-11-16 00:27:25 <hadronzoo> It's OS X's account encryption system
 16 2010-11-16 00:27:48 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: define "brings to its knees"
 17 2010-11-16 00:28:04 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: bitcoin generation will max out your CPU, sure
 18 2010-11-16 00:28:33 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: I'm not generating. It's accessing the disk excessively.
 19 2010-11-16 00:28:42 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: all blocks downloaded?
 20 2010-11-16 00:28:52 <hadronzoo> Essentially, everything I run pauses every 5 seconds or so
 21 2010-11-16 00:29:13 <hadronzoo> They were all downloaded, now it won't download anymore (even though I can connect to 50 peers)
 22 2010-11-16 00:29:23 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: probably the database sync'ing to disk.
 23 2010-11-16 00:29:39 <hadronzoo> Is the debug log turned on by default?
 24 2010-11-16 00:29:43 <jgarzik> yes
 25 2010-11-16 00:29:50 <jgarzik> but that's not sync'd to disk
 26 2010-11-16 00:30:03 <jgarzik> does OS X flush dirty writes to disk every 5 seconds?
 27 2010-11-16 00:30:04 <hadronzoo> That's probably it then. It's flushing after every write, right??
 28 2010-11-16 00:30:10 <jgarzik> not the log, no.
 29 2010-11-16 00:30:21 <jgarzik> not the debug log, no.
 30 2010-11-16 00:30:25 <jgarzik> database log, yes.
 31 2010-11-16 00:30:56 <jgarzik> if your OS's filesystem has a journal, then that journal is sync'ing to disk even if an app does not
 32 2010-11-16 00:31:09 <hadronzoo> I see. Each flush incurs CPU overhead, although running my Windows 7 VM is less intensive than Bitcoin
 33 2010-11-16 00:31:48 <hadronzoo> I've read in the forums that others were unable to use Bitcoin with Filevault
 34 2010-11-16 00:31:52 <jgarzik> sure.  makes sense with encryption.
 35 2010-11-16 00:32:23 <hadronzoo> Is there any fix to the excessive flushing (even if it has some risk)?
 36 2010-11-16 00:34:55 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: it's your OS not bitcoin
 37 2010-11-16 00:35:14 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: you could try symlinking the debug log on a non-encrypted devices
 38 2010-11-16 00:35:16 <jgarzik> device
 39 2010-11-16 00:35:51 <jgarzik> it's silly to encrypt tons of debug data and public block data.  you only need to encrypt wallet.dat.
 40 2010-11-16 00:36:13 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: My entire home directory is encrypted. That's what OS X does by default
 41 2010-11-16 00:36:53 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: From MATLAB to GPG to VMWare, nothing grinds like Bitcoin
 42 2010-11-16 00:37:16 <brocktice> Hm, I never saw problems like that from FileVault, but then I wasn't running bitcoin.
 43 2010-11-16 00:37:39 <brocktice> hadronzoo: you turned off bitcoin generation, right?
 44 2010-11-16 00:37:45 <brocktice> oh I see you said that.
 45 2010-11-16 00:37:46 <brocktice> nm
 46 2010-11-16 00:37:49 <hadronzoo> brocktice: right, FileVault has run great for me for years without any problems
 47 2010-11-16 00:37:59 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: none of those other apps drop large debug and database turds in your home directory
 48 2010-11-16 00:38:38 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: Is there a setting to set the flush interval? I can compile if needed.
 49 2010-11-16 00:40:02 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: the flush interval is in your OS
 50 2010-11-16 00:40:17 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: so you have to answer that question yourself
 51 2010-11-16 00:40:54 <Kiba> so, people...
 52 2010-11-16 00:41:21 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: Most apps built atop BDB (like Voldemort) give you a tuning parameter to set the flush interval
 53 2010-11-16 00:41:52 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: the debug log is a text file outside of berkeley db
 54 2010-11-16 00:42:01 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: Writes are cached in memory and then flushed asynchronously to prevent things from slowing down
 55 2010-11-16 00:42:01 <ne0futur> alystair: hosting, domain names, server admin, seo and more
 56 2010-11-16 00:42:27 <hadronzoo> jgarzik: Oh, so you think it's the debug log that's the problem, not BDB?
 57 2010-11-16 00:43:09 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: BDB flushes with each database transaction, not every 5 seconds.
 58 2010-11-16 00:43:23 <jgarzik> hadronzoo: that generates lots of little disk blips
 59 2010-11-16 00:43:42 <jgarzik> not one big one, at regular intervals
 60 2010-11-16 00:44:27 <gavinandresen> hadronzoo: known bug.... workaround is to link ~/Library/Application Support/Bitcoin/debug.log to /dev/null
 61 2010-11-16 00:44:28 <brocktice> Kiba: yes?
 62 2010-11-16 00:44:35 <jgarzik> writing out the debug log calls for your system to do a lot of encryption work
 63 2010-11-16 00:44:42 <jgarzik> thus working both CPU and disk
 64 2010-11-16 00:44:42 <Kiba> brocktice: nothing to say...
 65 2010-11-16 00:44:56 <gavinandresen> It is the constant opening and closing of the debug.log that makes FileValue unhappy.
 66 2010-11-16 00:45:04 <hadronzoo> gavinandresen: Perfect, so it is the debug log. Thanks! I'll try this now...
 67 2010-11-16 00:45:54 <brocktice> Kiba: Oh, sounded like you were trying to redirect the conversation somewhere.
 68 2010-11-16 00:46:01 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: that seems rather silly.  as long as data passes through write(2), it's likely there, even if the app crashes
 69 2010-11-16 00:46:17 <Kiba> well, I am thinking that we need more goods and services that accept bitcoins
 70 2010-11-16 00:46:20 <jgarzik> you're only scrogged if the entire computer dies
 71 2010-11-16 00:46:22 <Kiba> not in a half-heartly way
 72 2010-11-16 00:46:31 <brocktice> Kiba: I think most people are thinking that.
 73 2010-11-16 00:46:40 <Kiba> but are they building anything?
 74 2010-11-16 00:46:50 <brocktice> yeah, some people are
 75 2010-11-16 00:47:27 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: yeah.... convenient if you're rotating debug.log, though....  (should probably just close/re-open every ten minutes, or not write so much stuff if not -debug )
 76 2010-11-16 00:47:49 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: or, in Unix/OSX, upon SIGHUP
 77 2010-11-16 00:47:51 <Kiba> brocktice: well, it's sure a slow process
 78 2010-11-16 00:48:09 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: that's the standard...
 79 2010-11-16 00:48:47 <gavinandresen> Too bad bitcoin has to run on PCs, too......
 80 2010-11-16 00:48:58 <gavinandresen> (do PCs do SIGHUP?)
 81 2010-11-16 00:49:26 <brocktice> Kiba: patience, it's speeding up
 82 2010-11-16 00:49:43 <hadronzoo> gavinandresen: What a difference. Thanks! it's usable now
 83 2010-11-16 00:49:53 <hadronzoo> I appreciate everyone's help
 84 2010-11-16 00:49:59 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: Windows has some idea of signals, but quite different from *nix
 85 2010-11-16 00:50:11 <gavinandresen> hadronzoo: great!  You're the second person to run into this, I'll make sure it gets fixed.
 86 2010-11-16 00:50:41 <hadronzoo> gavinandresen: cool
 87 2010-11-16 00:52:38 <hadronzoo> It's taking 1 second instead of 1 minute to process a block!
 88 2010-11-16 00:53:00 <hadronzoo> This is like night and day
 89 2010-11-16 01:00:19 <brocktice> Kiba: What's the most important thing, you think?
 90 2010-11-16 01:00:33 <brocktice> Doesn't the bitcoin mutual support thingie exist for this?
 91 2010-11-16 01:00:37 <brocktice> Oh yeah, I need to join that...
 92 2010-11-16 01:00:46 <Kiba> brocktice: surviving against government faggots
 93 2010-11-16 01:01:06 <brocktice> Kiba: I mean, in terms of enabling more goods and services
 94 2010-11-16 01:01:33 <Kiba> building goods and services
 95 2010-11-16 01:03:27 <brocktice> Kiba: Did you see someone's got a Project Daemon on five grinder?
 96 2010-11-16 01:03:34 <Kiba> no
 97 2010-11-16 01:04:02 <Diablo-D3> english?
 98 2010-11-16 01:04:36 <Kiba> I didn't see anything until I visit the site just now
 99 2010-11-16 01:04:40 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: Did you read Daemon?
100 2010-11-16 01:06:40 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: no?
101 2010-11-16 01:07:20 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: Oh, well, it's a long story, but the premise is that this master MMORPG developer builds this insidious daemon that installs itself on computers all over the world.
102 2010-11-16 01:07:39 <brocktice> Then when he dies of cancer, it's triggered by watching the news feeds and starts to act on its own.
103 2010-11-16 01:08:12 <brocktice> It basically turns the real world into a MMORPG, including giving people tech-based powers based on their completing quests to help the network, etc.
104 2010-11-16 01:08:25 <brocktice> The sequel is Freedom(TM)
105 2010-11-16 01:08:35 <Diablo-D3> who wrote it?
106 2010-11-16 01:08:48 <brocktice> Daniel Suarez
107 2010-11-16 01:08:54 <brocktice> Apparently a tech consultant of some kind.
108 2010-11-16 01:10:30 <anarchyx> amazon europe just died for 5 mins.. its back
109 2010-11-16 01:10:38 <Diablo-D3> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100906.html
110 2010-11-16 01:10:41 <Diablo-D3> I find this greatly amusing
111 2010-11-16 01:10:48 <Diablo-D3> see the milky way there?
112 2010-11-16 01:10:59 <Diablo-D3> I have the milky way as my desktop background
113 2010-11-16 01:11:04 <Diablo-D3> and it looks just like that
114 2010-11-16 01:12:18 <gavinandresen> brocktice:  my favorite sci-fi books of the last... oh, three or four years... is are Daemon and Freedom.
115 2010-11-16 01:12:35 <brocktice> gavinandresen: yeah I loved them
116 2010-11-16 01:13:00 <brocktice> I've been thinking it would be interesting to try to get something like that going.
117 2010-11-16 01:13:05 <brocktice> Looks like someone on Five Grinder agrees.
118 2010-11-16 01:13:18 <Diablo-D3> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100823.html
119 2010-11-16 01:13:19 <Diablo-D3> whahaha
120 2010-11-16 01:13:22 <Diablo-D3> this is awesome
121 2010-11-16 01:13:34 <gavinandresen> We're WAY far away from AI as described in Daemon.
122 2010-11-16 01:14:18 <brocktice> gavinandresen: Oh sure, but there are a lot of interesting components.
123 2010-11-16 01:14:37 <Kiba> I want to write a steampunk novel about a cunning capitalist that violate IP laws
124 2010-11-16 01:14:42 <brocktice> it would be totally feasible to write something that watches the news and does things accordingly. Last I read Wall Street firms are doing that now.
125 2010-11-16 01:14:49 <brocktice> with their autotraders.
126 2010-11-16 01:15:25 <brocktice> Plus, now we have the Xbox Kinect or however you spell that
127 2010-11-16 01:15:28 <brocktice> easy computer vision.
128 2010-11-16 01:15:49 <Kiba> it will take a while to develop good computer vision using reverse engineered tech
129 2010-11-16 01:16:08 <brocktice> One of my favorite parts of the pair of books is when Loki gets pissed at a guy in the line at a coffee shop.
130 2010-11-16 01:16:17 <brocktice> Won't spoil it, but damn that was a great scene.
131 2010-11-16 01:17:18 <brocktice> Wow, that's an amazing pic
132 2010-11-16 01:21:57 <Diablo-D3> [09:14:42] <brocktice> it would be totally feasible to write something that watches the news and does things accordingly. Last I read Wall Street firms are doing that now.
133 2010-11-16 01:22:00 <Diablo-D3> yeah and its dumb
134 2010-11-16 01:22:04 <gavinandresen> Anybody awake enough to double-check the "don't constantly close and re-open debug.log" fix?  : https://gist.github.com/701330
135 2010-11-16 01:22:12 <Diablo-D3> the market is the most efficient information medium ever
136 2010-11-16 01:22:24 <Diablo-D3> you may not know WHAT happened, but the market has already adjusted for it by the time you find out
137 2010-11-16 01:22:57 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: Yeah but it's like running from a bear.
138 2010-11-16 01:23:04 <brocktice> I don't have to outrun the bear, just the person behind me.
139 2010-11-16 01:23:44 <brocktice> If they can trade faster than some people, they will still come out ahead.
140 2010-11-16 01:24:03 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: yeah, but its still noise I ignore
141 2010-11-16 01:24:10 <Diablo-D3> if they cant beat me, who are they kidding?
142 2010-11-16 01:24:20 <Diablo-D3> I'm some guy who lives in Maine and sits infront of a computer all day
143 2010-11-16 01:24:27 <Diablo-D3> I dont even CARE about the stock market
144 2010-11-16 01:24:30 <Diablo-D3> and they cant beat me
145 2010-11-16 01:24:33 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: looks good, applying to my local branch
146 2010-11-16 01:25:21 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: thanks.
147 2010-11-16 01:27:28 <ArtForz> whoops
148 2010-11-16 01:27:43 <davex__> Diablo-D3, have you read nassim taleb?
149 2010-11-16 01:28:12 <ArtForz> causes heap corruption
150 2010-11-16 01:28:35 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: heap corruption is bad......
151 2010-11-16 01:28:51 <ArtForz> lemme try a make clean first
152 2010-11-16 01:29:26 <ArtForz> as I think I upgraded gcc since I compiled this one last
153 2010-11-16 01:29:46 <ArtForz> there we go
154 2010-11-16 01:29:47 <Diablo-D3> man
155 2010-11-16 01:29:53 <Diablo-D3> davex__: no
156 2010-11-16 01:30:01 <Diablo-D3> so
157 2010-11-16 01:30:02 <Diablo-D3> man
158 2010-11-16 01:30:12 <Diablo-D3> I have not seen that movie with the dreams and whatever in it
159 2010-11-16 01:30:23 <Diablo-D3> inception or whatever it was
160 2010-11-16 01:30:37 <Diablo-D3> but now Im randomly spitting out the soundtrack
161 2010-11-16 01:30:57 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: applied cleanly, compiled, runs
162 2010-11-16 01:31:21 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: awesome, thanks.  I'm going to go ahead and commit it.
163 2010-11-16 01:31:45 <ArtForz> it also appears to help reduce disk access quite a bit on linux
164 2010-11-16 01:31:56 <Diablo-D3> what patch?
165 2010-11-16 01:32:03 <ArtForz> might be because my debug.log is ~200MB
166 2010-11-16 01:32:14 <Diablo-D3> lolfail
167 2010-11-16 01:32:19 <ArtForz> <gavinandresen> Anybody awake enough to double-check the "don't constantly close and re-open debug.log" fix?  : https://gist.github.com/701330
168 2010-11-16 01:32:33 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imamcajBEJs
169 2010-11-16 01:32:43 <ArtForz> yeah, seems my log rotate script died quite a while ago
170 2010-11-16 01:33:34 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure why its a good OST
171 2010-11-16 01:33:37 <Diablo-D3> I havent seen the movie
172 2010-11-16 01:33:42 <Diablo-D3> its really simplistic
173 2010-11-16 01:34:00 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOJqicM6x84
174 2010-11-16 01:34:02 <Diablo-D3> or that
175 2010-11-16 01:34:19 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: I did test log rotating, the new code (svn r181 now) works as expected (on mac/linux, anyway) -- continues to write to the old file until the 10-minute timer goes off.
176 2010-11-16 01:34:26 <Diablo-D3> BWAAAAAAAAANG
177 2010-11-16 01:34:32 <Diablo-D3> BWAAAAAAAAANG
178 2010-11-16 01:34:38 <Diablo-D3> BWAAAAAAAAANG
179 2010-11-16 01:40:26 <ArtForz> yep
180 2010-11-16 01:57:28 <Diablo-D3> fuck
181 2010-11-16 01:57:29 <Diablo-D3> want
182 2010-11-16 01:57:30 <Diablo-D3> to
183 2010-11-16 01:57:31 <Diablo-D3> watch
184 2010-11-16 01:57:32 <Diablo-D3> tron
185 2010-11-16 01:57:33 <Diablo-D3> legacy
186 2010-11-16 01:57:41 <Diablo-D3> I dont even care if its shit and will ruin the original for me
187 2010-11-16 01:57:43 <Diablo-D3> I must watch it
188 2010-11-16 02:01:14 <alystair> I just want the soundtrack
189 2010-11-16 02:01:16 <alystair> tbh
190 2010-11-16 02:05:14 <hadronzoo> I've noticed that my Bitcoin client sometimes stops downloading blocks (even when connected to many peers). Is this normal?
191 2010-11-16 02:06:34 <MT`AwAy> hadronzoo: at how many blocks ?
192 2010-11-16 02:07:01 <hadronzoo> I currently have 64 connections and my blocks are stuck at 88376
193 2010-11-16 02:07:24 <hadronzoo> 65 connections now
194 2010-11-16 02:09:36 <MT`AwAy> mh
195 2010-11-16 02:09:37 <MT`AwAy> weird
196 2010-11-16 02:09:43 <MT`AwAy> maybe quit/restart ?
197 2010-11-16 02:10:26 <hadronzoo> MT`AwAy: I'll try...
198 2010-11-16 02:11:03 <MT`AwAy> might be stuck requesting a block from a peer that went down
199 2010-11-16 02:11:12 <MT`AwAy> (dunno how the block downloading thing works exactly)
200 2010-11-16 02:12:27 <hadronzoo> MT`AwAy: Just waiting for connections...
201 2010-11-16 02:13:00 <ArtForz> MT: yeah
202 2010-11-16 02:13:21 <ArtForz> afair the timeout is slightly crazy, something like 30 min
203 2010-11-16 02:14:47 <MT`AwAy> ok, so quit/restart was the right call :D
204 2010-11-16 02:15:36 <hadronzoo> MT`AwAy: OK, it's working again. About 2 blocks per second. Thanks
205 2010-11-16 02:18:58 <MT`AwAy> btw if I have time I'm thinking of writing a new bitcoin client from scratch, having a 111kB main.cpp is just not workable
206 2010-11-16 02:19:23 <hadronzoo> MT`AwAy: Hmm. It hung again. It seems like when I start to get a lot of connections, it stops downloading blocks...
207 2010-11-16 02:19:39 <ArtForz> don't rewrite, refactor
208 2010-11-16 02:19:47 <MT`AwAy> hadronzoo: you could just ignore it for a while, and it'll start working again
209 2010-11-16 02:19:53 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I'm not a wxwidgets/boost guy
210 2010-11-16 02:20:08 <MT`AwAy> so for me, rewriting might be faster
211 2010-11-16 02:20:52 <hadronzoo> MT`AwAy: OK, although I've had it hang for 30 hours before (although that was before I symlinked debug.log to /dev/null)
212 2010-11-16 02:21:23 <MT`AwAy> hadronzoo: slow disk?
213 2010-11-16 02:21:46 <hadronzoo> MT`AwAy: FileVault problems
214 2010-11-16 02:21:51 <MT`AwAy> ah
215 2010-11-16 02:41:27 <ArtForz> gavin: found a major problem
216 2010-11-16 02:42:06 <ArtForz> we need to protect the static reopen-debug.log with a lock
217 2010-11-16 02:42:49 <Diablo-D3> [10:01:15] <alystair> I just want the soundtrack
218 2010-11-16 02:43:02 <Diablo-D3> alystair: I suspect Jesus was reincarnated as Daft Punk
219 2010-11-16 03:09:46 <MT`AwAy> looks like someone is sending lots of 0.01 trx
220 2010-11-16 03:09:53 <MT`AwAy> (not me this time)
221 2010-11-16 03:11:04 <ArtForz> doesn't look like it affects anything much though
222 2010-11-16 03:12:56 <ArtForz> and after some futzing with locking my tx-for-miner-block ccache seems to work
223 2010-11-16 04:03:21 <Kiba> hmm
224 2010-11-16 04:03:22 <Kiba> ya know
225 2010-11-16 04:03:30 <Kiba> I just realize that I don't know how the Chinese thinks
226 2010-11-16 04:03:43 <Kiba> what they do over there in China net?
227 2010-11-16 04:06:52 <MT`AwAy> ?
228 2010-11-16 04:06:57 <MT`AwAy> what do you mean, "what they do" ?
229 2010-11-16 04:07:09 <MT`AwAy> they work, have fun, sleep, eat, etc
230 2010-11-16 04:07:19 <Kiba> the internet
231 2010-11-16 04:07:22 <Kiba> what they think
232 2010-11-16 04:07:24 <MT`AwAy> :D
233 2010-11-16 04:07:39 <MT`AwAy> they have their own twitter made in china, with most icons/stylesheet copied
234 2010-11-16 04:07:45 <MT`AwAy> they have their own search engines, blog engines, etc
235 2010-11-16 04:08:01 <Kiba> yeah, sure.
236 2010-11-16 04:08:24 <MT`AwAy> and they have proud in their country
237 2010-11-16 04:08:25 <Kiba> but..I am thinking like...what concerns Chinese?
238 2010-11-16 04:08:51 <MT`AwAy> they hate japanese people because "they never apologized for WW2" (that's what they learn in school, it's false btw)
239 2010-11-16 04:09:21 <Kiba> false how?
240 2010-11-16 04:10:55 <Kiba> the Japanese are focused on the nuclear bomb I think. The American bombed Japan and lot of civilians died, yep.
241 2010-11-16 04:11:01 <Kiba> but the Japanese is imperalistic...
242 2010-11-16 04:11:20 <Kiba> and FDR is probably an ass for provoking the Japanese
243 2010-11-16 04:11:37 <Kiba> so..if that's true, than it's the fault of both countries that WW2 happens
244 2010-11-16 04:11:53 <MT`AwAy> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070909211807AAi2mxe
245 2010-11-16 04:11:57 <MT`AwAy> the matter is "after"
246 2010-11-16 04:12:41 <MT`AwAy> while Japan has decided to not have military anymore (except the defense force) and sents apologies & money to china (and are still sending money to china), in China schools you learn that Japan never apologized nor gave even one cent to china
247 2010-11-16 04:13:37 <Kiba> meh
248 2010-11-16 04:13:44 <Diablo-D3> hey man
249 2010-11-16 04:13:45 <Kiba> sino-exceptionalism
250 2010-11-16 04:13:49 <Diablo-D3> dont underestimate the jsdf
251 2010-11-16 04:14:08 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: also, you're REALLY glossing over china-japan relations
252 2010-11-16 04:14:11 <Kiba> if American exceptionalism exists, so does sino-exceptionism
253 2010-11-16 04:15:02 <Kiba> why does Japan needs to apologize on behalf of a bunch of scumbags 20-30 years ago?
254 2010-11-16 04:15:13 <Diablo-D3> they dont
255 2010-11-16 04:15:26 <Diablo-D3> I mean, Japan is one of the US's biggest allies now
256 2010-11-16 04:15:43 <Kiba> we're srry that our elder are ASSHOLES
257 2010-11-16 04:15:50 <Diablo-D3> only outright xenophobic morons (on either side, and yes they exist) are problematic
258 2010-11-16 04:16:29 <Kiba> hmm
259 2010-11-16 04:16:41 <Kiba> gottach love the existence of free porn video sites
260 2010-11-16 04:17:47 <MT`AwAy> :D
261 2010-11-16 05:25:12 <MT`AwAy> wow
262 2010-11-16 05:25:16 <MT`AwAy> my wallet.dat is 616MB
263 2010-11-16 05:28:23 <ne0futur> I wonder why mine is only 28k
264 2010-11-16 05:29:01 <samfisher> Hi. anyone can help me set up the GPU generation app?
265 2010-11-16 05:30:04 <samfisher> i don't know what OpenCL implementation to use, or where to get it (i'm at the pyopencl building part)
266 2010-11-16 05:35:50 <MT`AwAy> we might need a function to "forget" a bitcoin address, could be nice for short lived addresses (forget would only be successful if the address has no funds on it)
267 2010-11-16 05:36:40 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yea that's been mentioned before... at the moment, i guess you could just make a new wallet, and send your funds to it. if you don't have any addresses you need to keep that is.
268 2010-11-16 05:36:54 <nanotube> or you could possibly do it using bitcointools...
269 2010-11-16 05:37:02 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: I still want to keep /some/ of those addresses
270 2010-11-16 05:37:14 <MT`AwAy> anyway it's no urgence, I still have plently of disk space
271 2010-11-16 05:37:22 <nanotube> mm in that case.. option 1 is not for you. :)
272 2010-11-16 05:37:36 <MT`AwAy> but at some point it could be nice :)
273 2010-11-16 05:37:42 <nanotube> yea
274 2010-11-16 05:37:52 <nanotube> especially if you get in the habit of generating microtransaction storms. :)
275 2010-11-16 05:38:04 <Kiba> an ever changing address!
276 2010-11-16 05:38:42 <MT`AwAy> an option to destroy a batch of bitcoin addresses and have funds sent to a single address instead :p
277 2010-11-16 05:39:05 <MT`AwAy> (destroy <address list> => generate new address => send funds there => forget private keys for the old address list)
278 2010-11-16 05:39:18 <MT`AwAy> (except if no funds there)
279 2010-11-16 05:39:28 <nanotube> right
280 2010-11-16 05:39:58 <MT`AwAy> destroying a single address with funds would have no sense as it would generate another address, that's why I specify "address list" ;)
281 2010-11-16 05:40:16 <Kiba> man.
282 2010-11-16 05:40:20 <Kiba> I don't have enough bitcoins
283 2010-11-16 05:40:28 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: who has?
284 2010-11-16 05:40:31 <nanotube> but destroying a single address with no funds would be sensible. :)
285 2010-11-16 05:40:41 <lfm> MT`AwAy, destorying a single UNUSED address would be ok
286 2010-11-16 05:40:46 <nanotube> haha yea, i don't have enough either.
287 2010-11-16 05:40:48 <MT`AwAy> lfm: yep
288 2010-11-16 05:41:02 <MT`AwAy> lfm: unfortunately there's no easy way to know if an address is unused or not
289 2010-11-16 05:41:18 <lfm> unless someone sent you funds to that address after you destroyed it
290 2010-11-16 05:41:21 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: I been spending my bitcoins on donation and sponsoring bounty
291 2010-11-16 05:44:12 <lfm> why destroy addreses anyway, especially if you can never be sure there wont be another transaction to it?
292 2010-11-16 05:44:36 <nanotube> lfm: to keep down the size of wallet.
293 2010-11-16 05:44:44 <lfm> bah! a few bytes
294 2010-11-16 05:44:58 <nanotube> lfm: MT`AwAy has a 600+MB wallet
295 2010-11-16 05:45:12 <Kiba> with HD size these days, it's not so bad
296 2010-11-16 05:45:12 <nanotube> it could make a difference to websites that generate one-time-use addresses for users
297 2010-11-16 05:45:13 <lfm> so how big is his disk?
298 2010-11-16 05:45:44 <nanotube> lfm: given that you should make regular backups of the wallet... probably not big enough. :)
299 2010-11-16 05:46:33 <lfm> what, hasnt he baught a disk in the last 10 years?
300 2010-11-16 05:47:06 <MT`AwAy> lfm: what worries me is that it's probably going to get even bigger
301 2010-11-16 05:47:25 <nanotube> i don't know what he bought or not... i'm just saying that i'd like to be able to avoid storing useless cruft, if i can.
302 2010-11-16 05:47:58 <lfm> just transfer your money to a new wallet, nice and small
303 2010-11-16 05:48:09 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'm accepting payments in bitcoins, I generate temporary addresses for payments
304 2010-11-16 05:48:17 <MT`AwAy> and I also have permanent addresses for people to send payments when they want
305 2010-11-16 05:48:19 <MT`AwAy> (in the same wallet)
306 2010-11-16 05:48:35 <MT`AwAy> I didn't expect the wallet to grow that big, that fast
307 2010-11-16 05:49:13 <nanotube> lfm: you might want to keep some particular addresses...
308 2010-11-16 05:49:33 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'm not telling it urgent
309 2010-11-16 05:49:36 <lfm> MT`AwAy, are you the one was playing with the bitcent spam? how else you get that much in wallet?
310 2010-11-16 05:49:51 <MT`AwAy> until the wallet gets to 10GB I should have a few months
311 2010-11-16 05:50:37 <MT`AwAy> lfm: yesterday (evening in JST) we did tests with ArtForz with bitcoins tx floods (my transactions are only random 0.02~1.00,  the 0.01 are not mine)
312 2010-11-16 05:51:34 <ArtForz> flood? more like a fast trickle ;)
313 2010-11-16 05:51:42 <MT`AwAy> yep, 0.44trx/sec
314 2010-11-16 05:54:12 <lfm> btw I got my gpu unning 1400 khash/s
315 2010-11-16 05:55:01 <lfm> the cpu is 2400 khash/s
316 2010-11-16 05:56:48 <MT`AwAy> my cpu is 5000khash/s
317 2010-11-16 05:57:00 <MT`AwAy> and some of my cpus go at 11000khash/s
318 2010-11-16 05:57:34 <lfm> my gpu is $40
319 2010-11-16 05:57:39 <MT`AwAy> :D
320 2010-11-16 05:57:45 <MT`AwAy> this explains everything
321 2010-11-16 05:57:49 <lfm> hehe
322 2010-11-16 05:59:08 <lfm> it does work with the m0m miner though, kinda cool
323 2010-11-16 06:01:32 <samfisher> anyone can help me with mining on gpu?
324 2010-11-16 06:04:23 <lfm> samfisher, lots of people can, depends whats wrong
325 2010-11-16 06:04:57 <lfm> samfisher, first question, are you using Linux?
326 2010-11-16 06:05:29 <Kiba> mtgox bitcoin action is most unexciting EVER
327 2010-11-16 06:06:03 <lfm> Kiba, you need to take long view
328 2010-11-16 06:07:32 <samfisher> lfm: yes
329 2010-11-16 06:07:55 <samfisher> lfm: i can't build pyopencl, i need an openCL implementation
330 2010-11-16 06:08:44 <lfm> what linux is it?
331 2010-11-16 06:09:01 <samfisher> Slackware64 13.1
332 2010-11-16 06:09:52 <lfm> ooooo, you got pyopencl and it doesnt build? any error messages?
333 2010-11-16 06:09:57 <Kiba> I seriously should write a bot to automate my trading
334 2010-11-16 06:11:59 <jgarzik> Kiba: http://www.geniustrader.org/ is right there waiting for ya
335 2010-11-16 06:12:19 <lfm> samfisher, the actual OpenCL comes with the video drivers either ati or nvidia. you know what version your video drivers are?
336 2010-11-16 06:13:01 <Kiba> but, I don't like perl!
337 2010-11-16 06:13:35 <jgarzik> Kiba: <shrug>  does that mean you'd ignore a wealth of helpful code?  ;-)
338 2010-11-16 06:13:58 <jgarzik> I'm sure the same algorithms work in python
339 2010-11-16 06:14:54 <Kiba> I need a systematic approach to learning programming
340 2010-11-16 06:15:06 <Kiba> blah
341 2010-11-16 06:15:07 <Kiba> whatever
342 2010-11-16 06:15:11 <samfisher> lfm: i have nvidia latest
343 2010-11-16 06:15:19 <Kiba> but anyway, it would be nice for me to learn something everyday
344 2010-11-16 06:15:26 <Kiba> that will contribute to my intelligence
345 2010-11-16 06:16:16 <lfm> samfisher, when you try to build pyopencl does it give you an error message?
346 2010-11-16 06:16:36 <samfisher> yes, let me show you
347 2010-11-16 06:18:49 <samfisher> lfm: http://pastebin.com/986TTPTQ
348 2010-11-16 06:21:11 <Kiba> nightie night
349 2010-11-16 06:23:31 <lfm> samfisher, sorry I dont know exactly what that problem is. something to do with the .h header files it seems either not found or wrong ersions somewhere I think
350 2010-11-16 06:24:45 <lfm> samfisher, I think you need a sdk from nvidia
351 2010-11-16 06:25:01 <lfm> samfisher, for opencl
352 2010-11-16 06:25:18 <lfm> the cl/cl.h file is missing
353 2010-11-16 06:28:07 <lfm> samfisher, if you have a CL/cl.h file somewhere on your system, perhaps you need some env var to point to the wright dir or something
354 2010-11-16 06:33:37 <samfisher> lfm: i'm lost
355 2010-11-16 06:34:19 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: why are you building pyopencl?
356 2010-11-16 06:35:18 <samfisher> isn't it a dependency?
357 2010-11-16 06:35:29 <Diablo-D3> why are you _building_ it
358 2010-11-16 06:35:51 <Diablo-D3> most linux distros package it.
359 2010-11-16 06:36:19 <samfisher> i don't have it on slack
360 2010-11-16 06:36:30 <Diablo-D3> then quit using out of date distros like slack
361 2010-11-16 06:36:32 <samfisher> or i don't know having it
362 2010-11-16 06:36:33 <Diablo-D3> switch to debian
363 2010-11-16 06:36:51 <Diablo-D3> pyopencl shouldnt be built by people who dont know how to compile things
364 2010-11-16 06:37:18 <samfisher> slack is not out of date
365 2010-11-16 06:37:31 <Diablo-D3> apparently it is if it doesnt have things like pyopencl
366 2010-11-16 06:44:50 <lfm> samfisher, pyopencl that is
367 2010-11-16 06:49:30 <lfm> on a different note I finally got my gpu running m0mchill's miner. I looked at yours but I dont know enuf java to get it to run
368 2010-11-16 06:50:19 <samfisher> is it easier on windows7?
369 2010-11-16 06:51:21 <lfm> I never tried windows. it is easier on certain recent versions of debian and ubuntu (as Diablo-D3 indicated) but its still not simple imho
370 2010-11-16 06:52:43 <Diablo-D3> apt-get install pyopencl isnt simple?
371 2010-11-16 06:52:43 <samfisher> what hashrate could i get on an nvidia 9500?
372 2010-11-16 06:52:53 <samfisher> i don't have ubuntu
373 2010-11-16 06:53:07 <Diablo-D3> lfm: also, why would you need to know java to use mine?
374 2010-11-16 06:53:11 <Diablo-D3> you just run the appropriate script
375 2010-11-16 06:53:12 <lfm> samfisher, bitcoin is mired in many various dependancies not just for gpus but gpus make the dependancies deaper
376 2010-11-16 06:54:22 <lfm> Diablo-D3, ya the Diablo-d3.Linux script? it cant find anything. the java files in the tarball are in differently named directories or something
377 2010-11-16 06:54:22 <xelister> are we 100% sure m0mchil's miner is working fine?
378 2010-11-16 06:54:48 <lfm> xelister, no, depends who we is I spoze
379 2010-11-16 06:55:30 <xelister> with  python poclbm.py  -d 1 -f 90 -r 3   I found a block at    found: 59602XXXX, 16/11/2010 05:08
380 2010-11-16 06:55:40 <xelister> and still now getinfo shows ballance 0
381 2010-11-16 06:55:43 <Diablo-D3> lfm: you cd into the dir and do ./DiabloMiner-Linux.sh -u foo -p bar
382 2010-11-16 06:56:03 <Diablo-D3> xelister: because getinfo doesnt show pending blocks
383 2010-11-16 06:56:13 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you need to look at the UI client for the transaction list
384 2010-11-16 06:56:19 <xelister> "balance":0.05000000,"blocks":92140,"connections":8
385 2010-11-16 06:56:22 <lfm> xelister, wait 120 blocks and get back to us
386 2010-11-16 06:57:19 <samfisher> xelister: still couldn't build pyopencl
387 2010-11-16 06:57:44 <xelister> ok so if you generate a block, it may take up to for example 120 blocks (120*10 minutes = 20 hours??) before you see it in the ballance of RPC client / are able to use it?
388 2010-11-16 06:57:59 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes
389 2010-11-16 06:58:02 <Diablo-D3> this isnt news
390 2010-11-16 06:58:33 <xelister> we arelly do need as much as 120 blocks for, I assume, anti-split protection?
391 2010-11-16 06:58:49 <Diablo-D3> for anti fraud protection
392 2010-11-16 06:59:18 <lfm> Diablo-D3, NoClassDefFoundError
393 2010-11-16 06:59:54 <xelister> samfisher: hi, today I will be rather bussy. Perhaps tomorrow; One thing to consider could be to dual boot also to ubuntu to leave it for the night to mine
394 2010-11-16 06:59:57 <lfm> xelister, I wouldnt think so but thats what it is
395 2010-11-16 07:00:05 <Diablo-D3> lfm: pastebin the entire error
396 2010-11-16 07:00:12 <Diablo-D3> lfm: because you're doing something wrong
397 2010-11-16 07:03:17 <lfm> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner
398 2010-11-16 07:03:20 <lfm> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: com.diablominer.DiabloMiner.DiabloMiner
399 2010-11-16 07:03:28 <samfisher> is it easier to install the miner in win7?
400 2010-11-16 07:03:33 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: no.
401 2010-11-16 07:03:37 <Diablo-D3> lfm: then you've screwed up
402 2010-11-16 07:03:51 <Diablo-D3> lfm: are you sure you have the newest version of the build zip?
403 2010-11-16 07:03:56 <xelister> aactually ubuntu appears to be most miner-friendly
404 2010-11-16 07:04:01 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: can I use a virtualized machine with ubuntu?
405 2010-11-16 07:04:09 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: and access your hardware how?
406 2010-11-16 07:04:11 <lfm> Diablo-D3-DiabloMiner-bce2404
407 2010-11-16 07:04:24 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: that would be my next question
408 2010-11-16 07:05:13 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: pci-e passthrough for devices that initiate dma on their own is not possible in virtualization without driver support
409 2010-11-16 07:05:19 <Diablo-D3> thus, no one does it yet
410 2010-11-16 07:05:30 <Diablo-D3> and your host OS would have to be headless for it to work anyhow
411 2010-11-16 07:05:44 <Diablo-D3> lfm: ... I dont recognize that version
412 2010-11-16 07:06:14 <samfisher> f it
413 2010-11-16 07:06:19 <samfisher> i'm install 'buntu
414 2010-11-16 07:06:25 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: ubuntu sucks
415 2010-11-16 07:06:27 <Diablo-D3> use debian
416 2010-11-16 07:07:13 <samfisher> i want it just for mining
417 2010-11-16 07:07:28 <lfm> Diablo-D3, download from https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner about 2 hours ago
418 2010-11-16 07:08:27 <Diablo-D3> lfm: but thats only the source code.
419 2010-11-16 07:08:36 <Diablo-D3> you need to run mvn package to get anything useful out of that
420 2010-11-16 07:09:33 <lfm> ok, I dont know mvn
421 2010-11-16 07:11:12 <Diablo-D3> well seeing as I told you the exact command to run, whats the problem?
422 2010-11-16 07:12:43 <lfm> Diablo-D3, I guess I assumed building would be obvious, obtaining binary now. I assumed binary was optional
423 2010-11-16 07:13:03 <Diablo-D3> the binary is for people who dont want to build it
424 2010-11-16 07:14:09 <lfm> Is Binary for linux32 only?
425 2010-11-16 07:14:17 <Diablo-D3> no, its java
426 2010-11-16 07:14:20 <lfm> by any chance
427 2010-11-16 07:14:42 <lfm> wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 (Possible cause: architecture word width mismatch)
428 2010-11-16 07:15:14 <Diablo-D3> thats the same problem whatshisface was having
429 2010-11-16 07:15:37 <Diablo-D3> but the lwjgl developers couldnt figure it out because he wouldnt do what they asked
430 2010-11-16 07:15:50 <Diablo-D3> because it works on amd64 because thats what I use
431 2010-11-16 07:16:00 <Diablo-D3> lfm: what distro are you on
432 2010-11-16 07:16:19 <lfm> kubuntu 64 on intel
433 2010-11-16 07:16:22 <Diablo-D3> huh
434 2010-11-16 07:16:31 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if ubutnu has just majorly fucked something up
435 2010-11-16 07:16:44 <Diablo-D3> because the other guy also was on ubuntu
436 2010-11-16 07:16:51 <lfm> maybe, the m0mchil miner is working for me
437 2010-11-16 07:17:03 <Diablo-D3> fucking ubuntu
438 2010-11-16 07:17:08 <Diablo-D3> I wish people would quit using that distro
439 2010-11-16 07:18:06 <lfm> debian doesnt work for me, doesnt support my wireless dongle
440 2010-11-16 07:18:11 <Diablo-D3> they ignore bug reports, they CAUSE bugs
441 2010-11-16 07:18:14 <Diablo-D3> lfm: bullshit, it does
442 2010-11-16 07:18:24 <Diablo-D3> distros dont support hardware, the kernel does
443 2010-11-16 07:18:31 <Diablo-D3> you probably forgot to install the firmware packages
444 2010-11-16 07:18:35 <lfm> well, well I am just to stupid to figure it out
445 2010-11-16 07:20:39 <omglolbbq> heya diable
446 2010-11-16 07:20:41 <omglolbbq> o
447 2010-11-16 07:20:59 <Diablo-D3> lfm: a lot of companies are in bed with microsoft
448 2010-11-16 07:21:17 <Diablo-D3> and thought requiring firmware blobs uploaded by the driver would stop linux
449 2010-11-16 07:21:22 <Diablo-D3> it didnt
450 2010-11-16 07:21:38 <Diablo-D3> debian, due to the non-free nature of the firmware, does not install them by default
451 2010-11-16 07:21:42 <omglolbbq> bitcoin forum down?
452 2010-11-16 07:21:53 <omglolbbq> The server at www.bitcoin.org is taking too long to respond.
453 2010-11-16 07:22:27 <Diablo-D3> lfm: thus, you have to apt-get them
454 2010-11-16 07:22:38 <lfm> I thot the design with firmware blob uploads was just to make it cheaper
455 2010-11-16 07:22:45 <Diablo-D3> cheaper? no
456 2010-11-16 07:23:01 <Diablo-D3> either way they have to include something to store it
457 2010-11-16 07:23:19 <Diablo-D3> most of them dont have something on the chip die to store the firmware
458 2010-11-16 07:23:27 <Diablo-D3> so its still another chip
459 2010-11-16 07:23:31 <ArtForz> erm... no
460 2010-11-16 07:23:58 <Diablo-D3> lfm: its just a large part of the ongoing scam
461 2010-11-16 07:24:18 <ArtForz> on-chip ram to store firmware *is* cheaper than flash
462 2010-11-16 07:24:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes, but who said flash?
463 2010-11-16 07:24:37 <lfm> cheaper to make it customizable for different countries with different radio bands used and stuff
464 2010-11-16 07:24:43 <Diablo-D3> it could be a rom chip, which are really fucking cheap
465 2010-11-16 07:24:57 <Diablo-D3> lfm: which has nothing to do with the firmware
466 2010-11-16 07:25:01 <Diablo-D3> lfm: thats managed by the driver
467 2010-11-16 07:25:28 <davux> hi!
468 2010-11-16 07:26:12 <lfm> ArtForz, ya, just ram, not flash and not separate flash chip == cheaper
469 2010-11-16 07:26:21 <Diablo-D3> and they can do on-die flash too
470 2010-11-16 07:26:30 <Diablo-D3> so thats another non-argument
471 2010-11-16 07:26:32 <ArtForz> yep, just check prices on stuff like cypress USB microcontrollers
472 2010-11-16 07:26:50 <davux> do you know of any encoding for bitcoin addresses for contexts where uppercase chars are not allowed?
473 2010-11-16 07:27:04 <lfm> daveparrish, nope
474 2010-11-16 07:27:20 <lfm> davux, nope
475 2010-11-16 07:27:37 <davux> i'm working of an xmpp gateway to bitcoin
476 2010-11-16 07:27:50 <davux> so that people could send bitcoins via IM
477 2010-11-16 07:28:10 <jgarzik> davux: nice
478 2010-11-16 07:28:14 <davux> directly to a bitcoin address
479 2010-11-16 07:28:18 <lfm> davux, what sorta context doesnt allow UPPER case? back in asr33 days lower case was not allowed
480 2010-11-16 07:28:29 <davux> lfm: xmpp addresses
481 2010-11-16 07:28:35 <davux> well, in theory they do
482 2010-11-16 07:28:50 <omglolbbq> diablo debug msg in your pm :)
483 2010-11-16 07:29:00 <davux> but clients are buggy and don't make a difference between fOo and FOO
484 2010-11-16 07:29:02 <lfm> davux, treat it as a string, not an address
485 2010-11-16 07:29:09 <davux> i do
486 2010-11-16 07:29:15 <jgarzik> davux: I always wanted an XMPP-based bitcoin bank.  initiate deposits via IM.  tell it to send bitcoins via IM.  all without having to install anything but XMPP on your system.
487 2010-11-16 07:29:31 <davux> jgarzik: http://gitorious.org/bitcoim/
488 2010-11-16 07:29:50 <davux> i'm just starting to work on it so don't expect anything usable atm
489 2010-11-16 07:30:09 <davux> (yes it's called bitcoIM)
490 2010-11-16 07:30:27 <jgarzik> davux: does one agent support multiple users, with suitable strong authentication?
491 2010-11-16 07:30:40 <jgarzik> davux: ie. Alice and Bob's bank accounts must be separate :)
492 2010-11-16 07:31:17 <davux> at the moment i handle only one connection to a bitcoind instance
493 2010-11-16 07:31:34 <davux> and as you know, the wallet cannot be split
494 2010-11-16 07:31:35 <ArtForz> urk. found another possible deadlock in my miner
495 2010-11-16 07:32:12 <jgarzik> ah
496 2010-11-16 07:32:31 <jgarzik> davux: so it's more a remote control, than a bank
497 2010-11-16 07:32:37 <jgarzik> for one person
498 2010-11-16 07:32:47 <davux> can be
499 2010-11-16 07:33:05 <davux> it's free software so people are encouraged to run an instance of their own
500 2010-11-16 07:33:12 <davux> or for small-sized collectives
501 2010-11-16 07:33:24 <davux> although i will probably run an instance at bitco.im
502 2010-11-16 07:33:34 <jgarzik> davux: well without account separation it's not suitable for multi-user use, AFAICS?
503 2010-11-16 07:33:41 <jgarzik> so no collectives
504 2010-11-16 07:34:08 <davux> it is, if you keep track of who owns which address
505 2010-11-16 07:34:35 <davux> jgarzik: http://gitorious.org/bitcoim/pages/Design#Internal+distinction+between+user+accounts
506 2010-11-16 07:36:16 <MT`AwAy> http://freebitcoins.appspot.com/TEST/ <- "I'm giving away 5 per visit" <- wasn't it more like 500 before ?
507 2010-11-16 07:36:36 <Diablo-D3> no, it was 5 before, and now its 0.05
508 2010-11-16 07:36:45 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: "TEST"
509 2010-11-16 07:36:54 <Diablo-D3> oh
510 2010-11-16 07:36:57 <Diablo-D3> dunno then
511 2010-11-16 07:36:59 <Diablo-D3> probably still 5
512 2010-11-16 07:37:10 <jgarzik> davux: ok, good
513 2010-11-16 07:37:26 <MT`AwAy> was 500 yesterday
514 2010-11-16 07:40:19 <davux> i don't understand that TEST thing
515 2010-11-16 07:40:35 <Diablo-D3> its for the test net
516 2010-11-16 07:41:27 <MT`AwAy> davux: it's a place where you can get lots of bitcoins easily to test your stuff
517 2010-11-16 07:41:37 <MT`AwAy> for example I sent 1350.04 bitcoins to the test faucet just for fun
518 2010-11-16 07:41:53 <MT`AwAy> (one day of cpu bitcoin generation)
519 2010-11-16 07:42:11 <davux> oh ok, it's like a 2nd blockchain?
520 2010-11-16 07:42:23 <MT`AwAy> yep
521 2010-11-16 07:42:26 <MT`AwAy> only for tests
522 2010-11-16 07:42:31 <davux> funny
523 2010-11-16 07:42:38 <MT`AwAy> it has no value so people are not gpu-mining it
524 2010-11-16 07:42:41 <davux> what's the difference with the other one?
525 2010-11-16 07:42:49 <Diablo-D3> one is real, one isnt
526 2010-11-16 07:42:53 <davux> what makes it have no value?
527 2010-11-16 07:42:57 <MT`AwAy> so you can still generate coins like you could with bitcoins at first
528 2010-11-16 07:43:04 <MT`AwAy> davux: it has no value by convention
529 2010-11-16 07:43:11 <MT`AwAy> what makes it have no value is nobody wants to buy that
530 2010-11-16 07:43:15 <MT`AwAy> and everybody gives it happily
531 2010-11-16 07:43:40 <davux> so somehow the generation is easier, i guess
532 2010-11-16 07:43:54 <davux> is the difficulty adjusted in a different way or something?
533 2010-11-16 07:44:11 <Diablo-D3> davux: no
534 2010-11-16 07:44:16 <Diablo-D3> but theres no one mining on it
535 2010-11-16 07:44:18 <MT`AwAy> daveparrish: no, just that there's nobody mining there
536 2010-11-16 07:44:19 <Diablo-D3> so it has very low difficulty
537 2010-11-16 07:44:21 <MT`AwAy> arg
538 2010-11-16 07:44:26 <Diablo-D3> its a test. net.
539 2010-11-16 07:44:27 <davux> ok
540 2010-11-16 07:44:28 <MT`AwAy> daveparrish: sorry, meant to say davux
541 2010-11-16 07:44:30 <Diablo-D3> whats so hard to understand?
542 2010-11-16 07:45:56 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin hashes with version 111 are from testnet
543 2010-11-16 07:46:08 <MT`AwAy> (that's what makes them start with a m instead of a 1)
544 2010-11-16 07:55:01 <davux> how great, i think bitcoIM will have to deal with JIDs of the form 1_h_czp29k_w_yevpve_u_fef_h_qs_np3_p6jy_t_so_u_u@foo.bar
545 2010-11-16 07:55:12 <davux> A -> _a etc.
546 2010-11-16 07:56:14 <davux> unless i can come up with 26 characters that are accepted by clients, and can be displayed anywhere
547 2010-11-16 07:56:25 <davux> (in utf-8 range)
548 2010-11-16 07:56:37 <davux> as a replacement for [A-Z]
549 2010-11-16 08:02:01 <MT`AwAy> davux: why not just use hash+sum ?
550 2010-11-16 08:02:08 <MT`AwAy> well
551 2010-11-16 08:02:11 <MT`AwAy> version+hash+sum
552 2010-11-16 08:02:19 <davux> what do you mean?
553 2010-11-16 08:02:44 <MT`AwAy> 1Eym7pyJcaambv8FG4ZoU8A4xsiL9us2zz = 009955c1b44fa66688d27aaa06ba4ad02c6dd91088dcc4bb97
554 2010-11-16 08:02:56 <MT`AwAy> you could even compact that by using base36
555 2010-11-16 08:03:47 <MT`AwAy> so
556 2010-11-16 08:03:58 <MT`AwAy> 1Eym7pyJcaambv8FG4ZoU8A4xsiL9us2zz becomes mn9yeVLeZYWzoU1GHZRgnDzeFicGkGRQz8
557 2010-11-16 08:04:02 <MT`AwAy> mh
558 2010-11-16 08:04:04 <MT`AwAy> wtf
559 2010-11-16 08:04:09 <davux> fomr a mathematical point of view, it's what would make more sense, but it's maybe easier to allow people to convert easily between a base58 address and the JID representation
560 2010-11-16 08:04:11 <MT`AwAy> base36 shouldn't have uppercase
561 2010-11-16 08:04:21 <MT`AwAy> davux: "easily" ? :D
562 2010-11-16 08:04:27 <MT`AwAy> just provide a tool or something
563 2010-11-16 08:04:55 <MT`AwAy> btw
564 2010-11-16 08:05:13 <MT`AwAy> 1Eym7pyJcaambv8FG4ZoU8A4xsiL9us2zz (base58) becomes 0zc91t3oevztkwf4ip4wlxfarpfztk1mzweu1j (base36)
565 2010-11-16 08:05:20 <MT`AwAy> base36 has no uppercase :)
566 2010-11-16 08:05:59 <davux> i mean, it's easier to control whether two forms represent the same address with the ugly underscore version
567 2010-11-16 08:06:10 <davux> although i must admin the base36 one is nice too
568 2010-11-16 08:06:15 <davux> admit*
569 2010-11-16 08:06:47 <MT`AwAy> just provide a quick tool to convert between both
570 2010-11-16 08:07:09 <MT`AwAy> having an address full of _ is not nice
571 2010-11-16 08:07:21 <davux> ok i'll make this abstract and let people choose between the 2 methods
572 2010-11-16 08:07:39 <davux> doesn't have to be a global choice anyway
573 2010-11-16 08:07:46 <davux> i agree
574 2010-11-16 08:07:58 <MT`AwAy> :p
575 2010-11-16 08:08:18 <davux> how do you convert between base36 and base58?
576 2010-11-16 08:08:57 <MT`AwAy> I do it in php, probably not helpful for you
577 2010-11-16 08:09:18 <davux> i wish i could find a way to keep [a-z][0-9] chars unchanged
578 2010-11-16 08:09:46 <MT`AwAy> davux: I had to do like you did for one site of mine
579 2010-11-16 08:10:08 <MT`AwAy> davux: was getting something like http://om-rhdn-v40.est-un-boulet.com/ xD
580 2010-11-16 08:10:36 <davux> funny
581 2010-11-16 08:10:36 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: wait, why cant they be over 16 oz?
582 2010-11-16 08:10:46 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: because of terrorism risks
583 2010-11-16 08:10:58 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: you know, japan is a poor country full of dangerous mulsim terrorists
584 2010-11-16 08:10:59 <Diablo-D3> so... how do I get my plamo now?
585 2010-11-16 08:11:19 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: if the shipper is a company with a pro contract, they can still ship bigger packages
586 2010-11-16 08:11:46 <MT`AwAy> "For those of you who have a contract with JP Post, you will not be impacted and can continue to ship to any destination of any weight and size."
587 2010-11-16 08:12:01 <Diablo-D3> ahh, its only jp post
588 2010-11-16 08:12:03 <Diablo-D3> not the other two
589 2010-11-16 08:12:19 <MT`AwAy> the other two? you mean fedex?
590 2010-11-16 08:12:39 <Diablo-D3> no, theres two other internationally shipping shipping companies in japan
591 2010-11-16 08:12:41 <Diablo-D3> forget the names
592 2010-11-16 08:12:48 <MT`AwAy> if it's EMS, it's JP Post
593 2010-11-16 08:12:53 <Diablo-D3> ahh
594 2010-11-16 08:12:55 <Diablo-D3> EMS is one of them
595 2010-11-16 08:13:01 <MT`AwAy> EMS *is* JP Post
596 2010-11-16 08:13:03 <Diablo-D3> Im too lazy to look up the other
597 2010-11-16 08:13:12 <MT`AwAy> JP Post has many names :p
598 2010-11-16 08:13:18 <MT`AwAy> Yupack is JP Post too
599 2010-11-16 08:13:39 <MT`AwAy> davux: it even supports unicode ;)
600 2010-11-16 08:13:51 <LobsterMan> has anyone noticed bitcoin .15 using more memory than previous versions?
601 2010-11-16 08:14:02 <davux> ;)
602 2010-11-16 08:14:59 <davux> i can't believe XMPP can handle any strange utf-8 address, but clients don't do the distinction between uppercase and lowercase
603 2010-11-16 08:15:35 <MT`AwAy> davux: probably just before it was never enforced in specs
604 2010-11-16 08:16:34 <Diablo-D3> davux: erm
605 2010-11-16 08:16:39 <Diablo-D3> then it _cant_ handle utf8
606 2010-11-16 09:29:17 <samfisher> who can point me to a GPU miner guide?
607 2010-11-16 09:30:51 <Diablo-D3> there isnt one
608 2010-11-16 09:33:32 <MT`AwAy> btw Diablo-D3 if I was to switch to ATI, which kind of card would you recommand? :p
609 2010-11-16 09:35:38 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: ok, i have ubuntu, pyopencl, i did a svn co https://bitcoin.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bitcoin bitcoin
610 2010-11-16 09:35:46 <samfisher> what's next?
611 2010-11-16 09:37:37 <samfisher> i'll donate first 50 btc to whoevere helps me
612 2010-11-16 09:38:18 <MT`AwAy> samfisher: how many GPU do you have?
613 2010-11-16 09:38:20 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: not sure yet, I wanna see how the 69xx series comes out
614 2010-11-16 09:38:31 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: apply m0's getwork patch
615 2010-11-16 09:38:33 <samfisher> MT`AwAy: one
616 2010-11-16 09:38:37 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: and then make bitcoind
617 2010-11-16 09:38:55 <m0mchil> hi, just wanted to let you all know that I just fixed getwork patch to handle properly recent transaction tests
618 2010-11-16 09:39:24 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: it's a little complicated for me
619 2010-11-16 09:39:33 <samfisher> where and how do i apply that patch?
620 2010-11-16 09:39:39 <Diablo-D3> ask m0
621 2010-11-16 09:39:41 <MT`AwAy> samfisher: with the unix "patch" command
622 2010-11-16 09:39:49 <Diablo-D3> speaking of which
623 2010-11-16 09:39:51 <Diablo-D3> hi m0
624 2010-11-16 09:39:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/16/amds-bobcat-apu-benchmarked-the-age-of-the-atom-is-at-an-end/
625 2010-11-16 09:39:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: raperaperaperape
626 2010-11-16 09:40:27 <MT`AwAy> http://xkcd.com/325/ bobcat?
627 2010-11-16 09:40:36 <samfisher> MT`AwAy: you have to teach me command by command
628 2010-11-16 09:40:45 <samfisher> never used the "patch" command
629 2010-11-16 09:41:15 <MT`AwAy> samfisher: cd bitcoin/src; patch -p0 </path/to/downloaded/getwork/patch.patch
630 2010-11-16 09:41:25 <m0mchil> hi devil
631 2010-11-16 09:41:34 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: :D
632 2010-11-16 09:43:55 <samfisher> MT`AwAy: where do i dowload the patch from?
633 2010-11-16 09:44:36 <samfisher> MT`AwAy: found it
634 2010-11-16 09:44:37 <MT`AwAy> samfisher: google "bitcoin getwork" and find https://github.com/m0mchil/bitcoin-getwork
635 2010-11-16 09:44:55 <samfisher> yea, do i need only the patch file?
636 2010-11-16 09:45:06 <MT`AwAy> either download the .patch, OR download the 3 other files and overwrite in your sources dir
637 2010-11-16 09:46:51 <davout> o hai
638 2010-11-16 09:47:29 <MT`AwAy> (download/overwrite might be easier)
639 2010-11-16 09:47:39 <samfisher> yea
640 2010-11-16 09:49:49 <samfisher> MT`AwAy: ok. did that. now i have to build bitcoind?
641 2010-11-16 09:50:39 <samfisher> MT`AwAy: make -f makefile.unix && sudo make install  ?
642 2010-11-16 09:50:45 <MT`AwAy> samfisher: something like that
643 2010-11-16 09:51:19 <Diablo-D3> no
644 2010-11-16 09:51:25 <Diablo-D3> just make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
645 2010-11-16 09:52:23 <samfisher> ok. let me check the manual, i want to be sure i have all the deps
646 2010-11-16 09:52:46 <Diablo-D3> just building bitcoind avoids the nasty wx dep
647 2010-11-16 09:54:18 <samfisher> so i don't have to build wxwidgets?
648 2010-11-16 09:55:53 <Diablo-D3> http://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/e6app/eff_begins_accepting_disruptive_new_p2p_currency/
649 2010-11-16 09:55:55 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: yes
650 2010-11-16 09:56:03 <Diablo-D3> so the reddit story has reached 104
651 2010-11-16 09:56:07 <Diablo-D3> BUT THIS ISNT ENOUGH
652 2010-11-16 09:56:16 <Diablo-D3> NOT UNTIL IT REACHES OVER NINE THOUUUSAAAAAAAND
653 2010-11-16 09:56:55 <samfisher> 104 what?
654 2010-11-16 09:58:23 <Diablo-D3> 104 up votes
655 2010-11-16 09:58:45 <samfisher> error when building
656 2010-11-16 09:58:49 <samfisher> http://pastebin.com/PpLHF7uv
657 2010-11-16 09:59:10 <Diablo-D3> what error?
658 2010-11-16 09:59:30 <Diablo-D3> I dont see one
659 2010-11-16 10:00:45 <samfisher> who-invalid setoff
660 2010-11-16 10:01:06 <Diablo-D3> um, wtf?
661 2010-11-16 10:01:10 <Diablo-D3> thats not an error
662 2010-11-16 10:01:36 <Diablo-D3> -W is a gcc flag that adds warning output
663 2010-11-16 10:02:07 <Diablo-D3> -Wno-invalid-offsetof means warn when a invalid offsetof macro is used
664 2010-11-16 10:03:30 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: btw, what version of libdb did you build bitcoind with?
665 2010-11-16 10:03:50 <samfisher> the one ubuntu took with apt-get
666 2010-11-16 10:04:03 <Diablo-D3> then its probably the wrong version
667 2010-11-16 10:04:32 <Diablo-D3> apt-get install libdb4.7-dev libdb4.7++-dev
668 2010-11-16 10:04:54 <Diablo-D3> and make -f makefile.unix clean bitcoind
669 2010-11-16 10:05:21 <samfisher> * is already the newest version.
670 2010-11-16 10:05:35 <Diablo-D3> yay it is the right one then
671 2010-11-16 10:05:36 <samfisher> the problem is now, bitcoind is freezed to this
672 2010-11-16 10:05:50 <Diablo-D3> speak english
673 2010-11-16 10:05:54 <samfisher> bitcoin server starting
674 2010-11-16 10:05:59 <Diablo-D3> yes, it started.
675 2010-11-16 10:06:23 <samfisher> how can i see my khashes?
676 2010-11-16 10:06:40 <Diablo-D3> bitcoind forks and doesn't output anything
677 2010-11-16 10:06:54 <Diablo-D3> bitcoind also doubles as a bitcoind json client
678 2010-11-16 10:07:01 <Diablo-D3> so do ./bitcoind getinfo
679 2010-11-16 10:07:36 <doublec> I'm surprised you didn't get an error about setting an RPC password
680 2010-11-16 10:08:01 <Diablo-D3> doublec: that error needs to be fixed anyhow
681 2010-11-16 10:08:05 <Diablo-D3> you need to set user AND password
682 2010-11-16 10:08:20 <samfisher> http://pastebin.com/vvTesg0x
683 2010-11-16 10:08:39 <samfisher> i set the password as requeste, in ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
684 2010-11-16 10:08:44 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: yes, why are you pastebinning it?
685 2010-11-16 10:08:52 <samfisher> because 0 khashed
686 2010-11-16 10:08:55 <doublec> samfisher, you're still downloading the block chain
687 2010-11-16 10:09:03 <samfisher> o_O
688 2010-11-16 10:09:15 <doublec> you have about 73,000 so far. We're up to 90,000 odd
689 2010-11-16 10:09:20 <samfisher> when i was using the gui i knew that
690 2010-11-16 10:09:23 <Diablo-D3> "blocks" : 92150,
691 2010-11-16 10:09:35 <samfisher> so Diablo-D3 i'll give you some 50 btc
692 2010-11-16 10:10:03 <Diablo-D3> 1414VebW9RnPXymGqrG9SnHk5RrtYHaFy8
693 2010-11-16 10:10:20 <samfisher> ok
694 2010-11-16 10:10:24 <doublec> is this a gpu miner?
695 2010-11-16 10:10:26 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: oh, and btw, its not worth cpu genning if you're doing gpu mining
696 2010-11-16 10:10:43 <samfisher> the next question i wanted to ask
697 2010-11-16 10:10:48 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: so ./bitcoind setgenerate false
698 2010-11-16 10:11:17 <doublec> doesn't that stop generation completely?
699 2010-11-16 10:11:25 <Diablo-D3> doublec: no
700 2010-11-16 10:11:31 <Diablo-D3> miners obviously ignore the setting
701 2010-11-16 10:11:33 <samfisher> why the difficulty doubled?
702 2010-11-16 10:11:42 <Diablo-D3> doubled?
703 2010-11-16 10:11:52 <Diablo-D3> "difficulty" : 4536.35372328,
704 2010-11-16 10:12:05 <samfisher> "difficulty" : 352.16120907,  and then "difficulty" : 623.38695987,
705 2010-11-16 10:12:16 <Diablo-D3> because you dont have the whole chain yet
706 2010-11-16 10:12:29 <Diablo-D3> it obviously doesnt know the correct number until its done
707 2010-11-16 10:12:56 <samfisher> obviously, i don't know, since the inner workings of bitcoin are criptic
708 2010-11-16 10:13:09 <Diablo-D3> cryptic yet mostly logical
709 2010-11-16 10:13:21 <Diablo-D3> difficulty is derived from the block chain
710 2010-11-16 10:13:53 <samfisher> so what gpu should i buy?
711 2010-11-16 10:14:05 <Diablo-D3> dont know yet
712 2010-11-16 10:14:08 <Diablo-D3> wait until 69xx comes out
713 2010-11-16 10:14:17 <samfisher> cost?
714 2010-11-16 10:14:27 <Diablo-D3> within the realm of reason
715 2010-11-16 10:15:08 <Diablo-D3> I suspect the 6970 should have impressive performance, but no one will know until Art buys one
716 2010-11-16 10:15:35 <samfisher> how soon can you generate the first 50 btcs?
717 2010-11-16 10:15:44 <samfisher> with a 9600
718 2010-11-16 10:15:46 <samfisher> nvidia
719 2010-11-16 10:15:49 <Diablo-D3> effectively never.
720 2010-11-16 10:15:54 <Diablo-D3> geforces perform like shit
721 2010-11-16 10:16:19 <samfisher> pfff
722 2010-11-16 10:16:26 <Diablo-D3> use the mhash calculator
723 2010-11-16 10:16:33 <samfisher> where is it
724 2010-11-16 10:16:39 <Diablo-D3> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
725 2010-11-16 10:17:10 <samfisher> ;block
726 2010-11-16 10:17:33 <samfisher> ;currentblock
727 2010-11-16 10:17:52 <Diablo-D3> "blocks" : 92150,
728 2010-11-16 10:19:12 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: remember to ./bitcoind stop when you're done with it
729 2010-11-16 10:19:29 <samfisher> ok
730 2010-11-16 10:19:57 <samfisher> so, it's worth investing in a good gpu?
731 2010-11-16 10:20:09 <samfisher> when will these days be gone?
732 2010-11-16 10:21:51 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: still 0 khashes http://pastebin.com/uGWZFRUh
733 2010-11-16 10:24:25 <Diablo-D3> yes, if gen is off, its going to read 0.
734 2010-11-16 10:24:54 <Diablo-D3> miners do not report back their own speed, if thats what you're wondering
735 2010-11-16 10:25:07 <samfisher> well, that i wanted to see
736 2010-11-16 10:25:11 <samfisher> how fast can i generate
737 2010-11-16 10:25:15 <Diablo-D3> the miner itself spits it out
738 2010-11-16 10:25:24 <samfisher> also, how can i see when i generated 50
739 2010-11-16 10:25:36 <samfisher> ./bitcoind showmemoney
740 2010-11-16 10:25:50 <Diablo-D3> both my and m0's miner says when they've found a candidate block
741 2010-11-16 10:26:09 <samfisher> "hashespersec" : 2308989
742 2010-11-16 10:26:18 <samfisher> with setgenerate true
743 2010-11-16 10:26:30 <Diablo-D3> so 2.3 mhash
744 2010-11-16 10:26:34 <Diablo-D3> not worth having on
745 2010-11-16 10:26:39 <samfisher> :(
746 2010-11-16 10:26:41 <samfisher> why
747 2010-11-16 10:26:46 <doublec> that's your cpu only, right?
748 2010-11-16 10:26:51 <samfisher> both
749 2010-11-16 10:26:52 <Diablo-D3> because it can effect gpu mining, and its also a waste of watts
750 2010-11-16 10:27:11 <Diablo-D3> my 4850 has a theoretical maximum of 75 mhash
751 2010-11-16 10:27:18 <Diablo-D3> and thats slow
752 2010-11-16 10:27:26 <Diablo-D3> 5970 is 6xx mhash
753 2010-11-16 10:27:28 <samfisher> 95%  6 hours, 47 minutes
754 2010-11-16 10:27:39 <samfisher> so 6 hr i can mine them
755 2010-11-16 10:27:48 <Diablo-D3> I dont think so tim
756 2010-11-16 10:27:48 <doublec> i think you put the wrong numbers in
757 2010-11-16 10:28:00 <doublec> more like 60 days
758 2010-11-16 10:28:09 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: the calculator asks for khash, not hash
759 2010-11-16 10:28:19 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: you're doing 2308 khash
760 2010-11-16 10:28:20 <samfisher> daaamn
761 2010-11-16 10:28:21 <samfisher> yes
762 2010-11-16 10:28:32 <Diablo-D3> so its like 97 days
763 2010-11-16 10:28:59 <samfisher> :(
764 2010-11-16 10:29:00 <doublec> what is your cpu?
765 2010-11-16 10:29:09 <Diablo-D3> his cpu is slower than mine
766 2010-11-16 10:29:11 <samfisher> intel e6300
767 2010-11-16 10:29:28 <doublec> ok, just curious. I get that mhash, or close to it, with cpu only on my laptop.
768 2010-11-16 10:30:09 <samfisher> 97 days
769 2010-11-16 10:30:12 <samfisher> jeez
770 2010-11-16 10:30:15 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: just leave cpu gen off and do gpu mining only
771 2010-11-16 10:31:15 <samfisher> ok, but i want to see how soon i could gen them
772 2010-11-16 10:31:44 <samfisher> because if i gen a block in 5 days
773 2010-11-16 10:31:54 <Diablo-D3> gpu. mining. use it.
774 2010-11-16 10:32:31 <samfisher> i am
775 2010-11-16 10:33:15 <samfisher> so, maybe 50 in 10 days/
776 2010-11-16 10:33:42 <samfisher> isn't any way i can see my hashrate when doing only gpu?
777 2010-11-16 10:34:02 <Diablo-D3> uh, yes, the miner spits it out
778 2010-11-16 10:34:45 <doublec> how can he tell if the gpu is working?
779 2010-11-16 10:34:57 <doublec> it sounds like it hasn't spit anything out
780 2010-11-16 10:35:34 <Diablo-D3> the miner outputs its own khash meter live
781 2010-11-16 10:37:32 <MT`AwAy> http://www.prosecurepayment.com/ <- wouldn't this kind of payment be nice for bitcoins ?
782 2010-11-16 10:38:27 <Diablo-D3> no.
783 2010-11-16 10:38:35 <Diablo-D3> doesnt stop faggots with chargebacks
784 2010-11-16 10:38:49 <MT`AwAy> yep, and 8.5% fee is way way too expensive
785 2010-11-16 10:39:06 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: i'm not sure that my gpu miner is working correctly
786 2010-11-16 10:39:19 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: how did you come to that conclusion?
787 2010-11-16 10:39:32 <samfisher> if i can't see any hashrate, i can't tell if it worths to gpu mine
788 2010-11-16 10:39:39 <Diablo-D3> how did you start it?
789 2010-11-16 10:39:52 <samfisher> ./bitcoind -gen -rpcpassword
790 2010-11-16 10:39:58 <Diablo-D3> no, the miner
791 2010-11-16 10:39:58 <samfisher> ./bitcoind -gen -rpcpassword=mypass
792 2010-11-16 10:40:09 <doublec> the miner is separate from bitcoind
793 2010-11-16 10:40:20 <joe_1> has bitcoin reached 100$ a coin yet
794 2010-11-16 10:40:20 <samfisher> ...
795 2010-11-16 10:40:42 <Diablo-D3> btw, I wasnt aware -rpcpassword was a flag
796 2010-11-16 10:40:43 <samfisher> i didn't knew, i tought the patch modifies the bitcoind
797 2010-11-16 10:40:45 <doublec> joe_1, yes and I can sell you 500 of them for that if you want...
798 2010-11-16 10:41:00 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: it modifies it so miners can access it
799 2010-11-16 10:41:01 <joe_1> ok
800 2010-11-16 10:41:05 <Diablo-D3> you still have to start the miner
801 2010-11-16 10:41:11 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: where do i get the miner from?
802 2010-11-16 10:41:22 <Diablo-D3> from m0's repo
803 2010-11-16 10:42:18 <doublec> seriously though, volume seems low on mtgox lately
804 2010-11-16 10:42:21 <Diablo-D3> https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm/
805 2010-11-16 10:42:38 <samfisher> yes, found it
806 2010-11-16 10:42:40 <joe_1> low volume = plunge soon?
807 2010-11-16 10:42:51 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: no
808 2010-11-16 10:42:54 <Diablo-D3> it mostly means nothing
809 2010-11-16 10:43:12 <joe_1> what happened to bitcoinstore.yzyzy.yzy
810 2010-11-16 10:44:00 <joe_1> looks like they closed down, they used to sell and buy coins for dollars
811 2010-11-16 10:44:16 <joe_1> althuogh i might start using mt. gox
812 2010-11-16 10:45:52 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: Diablo-D3 i have bitcoind and those two files in a folder. started bitcoind. how to i start the miner?
813 2010-11-16 10:46:07 <Diablo-D3> ./pocosdfkjsazlkfjSZDf.py -u user -p pass
814 2010-11-16 10:46:28 <samfisher> ?
815 2010-11-16 10:46:41 <Diablo-D3> insert proper name of python script where available
816 2010-11-16 10:47:03 <samfisher> -u user has to be set in ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf?
817 2010-11-16 10:47:20 <Diablo-D3> yes, its the rpcuser field
818 2010-11-16 10:49:20 <samfisher> python poclbm.py -u username -p mypass
819 2010-11-16 10:49:28 <Diablo-D3> yes
820 2010-11-16 10:49:30 <samfisher> Traceback (most recent call last):
821 2010-11-16 10:49:40 <Diablo-D3> you dont have the jsonrpc module installed
822 2010-11-16 10:49:43 <Diablo-D3> what distro are you on?
823 2010-11-16 10:49:48 <samfisher> ubuntu 10.10
824 2010-11-16 10:49:57 <Diablo-D3> I dont know if ubuntu packages it
825 2010-11-16 10:50:32 <samfisher> i' so lucky
826 2010-11-16 10:50:45 <Diablo-D3> if it doesnt, just install it yourself http://json-rpc.org/wiki/python-json-rpc
827 2010-11-16 10:52:07 <samfisher> did that
828 2010-11-16 10:52:08 <samfisher> Traceback (most recent call last):
829 2010-11-16 10:52:09 <samfisher> platform = cl.get_platforms()[0]
830 2010-11-16 10:52:30 <Diablo-D3> your nvidia drivers probably arent up to date
831 2010-11-16 10:52:41 <Diablo-D3> you apt-got pyopencl right?
832 2010-11-16 10:52:51 <samfisher> it's amazing how you can resist with me
833 2010-11-16 10:53:58 <Diablo-D3> because on debian, that automatically pulls in nvidia-opencl-icd and nvidia-libopencl1
834 2010-11-16 10:54:05 <Diablo-D3> though I dont know what they're called in ubuntu
835 2010-11-16 10:54:19 <Diablo-D3> I suspect either your driver is out of date, or you dont have those packages installed
836 2010-11-16 10:54:38 <samfisher> i'm upgrading the drivers
837 2010-11-16 10:54:55 <Diablo-D3> do NOT use nvidia's installer shit
838 2010-11-16 10:54:58 <Diablo-D3> it will fuck your system up
839 2010-11-16 10:55:00 <samfisher> but?
840 2010-11-16 10:55:31 <Diablo-D3> afiak 10.10 already has the newest version
841 2010-11-16 10:55:37 <Diablo-D3> so make sure you have all the right packages installed
842 2010-11-16 10:57:09 <samfisher> i can't find those packages in ubuntu
843 2010-11-16 10:57:18 <Diablo-D3> apt-cache search nvidia | grep opencl
844 2010-11-16 10:57:39 <samfisher> nothing
845 2010-11-16 10:59:01 <Diablo-D3> wtf ubuntu
846 2010-11-16 11:00:11 <Diablo-D3> huh
847 2010-11-16 11:00:15 <Diablo-D3> apparently its in nvidia-current
848 2010-11-16 11:00:38 <samfisher> nvidia-current is already the newest version.
849 2010-11-16 11:00:43 <samfisher> i'm installing the nvidia drivers
850 2010-11-16 11:00:47 <Diablo-D3> no you're not.
851 2010-11-16 11:00:50 <samfisher> ok
852 2010-11-16 11:00:53 <Diablo-D3> are you SURE you're using the nvidia drivers and not nv?
853 2010-11-16 11:01:00 <samfisher> no
854 2010-11-16 11:01:09 <samfisher> i had fresh install of ubuntu
855 2010-11-16 11:01:47 <Diablo-D3> system->admin->additional drivers
856 2010-11-16 11:01:49 <Diablo-D3> turn nvidia on
857 2010-11-16 11:03:30 <samfisher> done it
858 2010-11-16 11:03:40 <Diablo-D3> reboot and try again
859 2010-11-16 11:03:58 <samfisher> ok. brb
860 2010-11-16 11:06:27 <samfisher> Traceback (most recent call last):
861 2010-11-16 11:06:28 <samfisher> ImportError: No module named pyopencl
862 2010-11-16 11:06:35 <samfisher> nothing greater
863 2010-11-16 11:06:46 <Diablo-D3> how the hell did you manage that
864 2010-11-16 11:07:07 <samfisher> managed what?
865 2010-11-16 11:07:22 <Diablo-D3> to break pyopencl
866 2010-11-16 11:07:44 <samfisher> i really have no idea
867 2010-11-16 11:11:20 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: http://pastebin.com/dmNVP6Rs
868 2010-11-16 11:11:39 <samfisher> i did an apt-get install python-pyopencl
869 2010-11-16 11:11:58 <Diablo-D3> ....
870 2010-11-16 11:12:09 <Diablo-D3> ls -al /usr/lib/libOpenCL*
871 2010-11-16 11:12:42 <samfisher> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 2010-11-16 14:09 /usr/lib/libOpenCL.so -> nvidia-current/libOpenCL.so
872 2010-11-16 11:13:36 <Diablo-D3> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/nvidia-current/libOpenCL.so /usr/lib/libOpenCL.so.1
873 2010-11-16 11:13:49 <Diablo-D3> I hate ubuntu
874 2010-11-16 11:14:08 <LobsterMan> does anyone know where i can find the .14 getwork win32 exe file? i accidentally deleted mine and .15 is giving me some problems <_<
875 2010-11-16 11:14:10 <samfisher> ok, did the link
876 2010-11-16 11:14:32 <m0mchil> LobsterMan, waht problems with 15
877 2010-11-16 11:14:42 <LobsterMan> my hash rate keeps dropping
878 2010-11-16 11:14:46 <samfisher> Traceback (most recent call last):
879 2010-11-16 11:14:52 <LobsterMan> it's like the miner's stop for a second or so every so often
880 2010-11-16 11:14:55 <m0mchil> just fixed this, download latest from froum link
881 2010-11-16 11:15:11 <LobsterMan> ah ok
882 2010-11-16 11:15:28 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: what does glxinfo | grep OpenGL say
883 2010-11-16 11:15:52 <samfisher> to install glxinfo
884 2010-11-16 11:16:11 <Diablo-D3> mesa-utils
885 2010-11-16 11:16:20 <samfisher> yea
886 2010-11-16 11:16:25 <samfisher> i did it, but same error
887 2010-11-16 11:16:55 <Diablo-D3> why is ubuntu such shit?
888 2010-11-16 11:16:57 <dsg> m0mchil: Could you please add a '-s' option to your miner to use HTTPS for bitcoin RPC?
889 2010-11-16 11:16:58 <Diablo-D3> thats all I wanna know
890 2010-11-16 11:17:14 <samfisher> slackware was harder
891 2010-11-16 11:17:32 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: /usr/bin/glxinfo | grep OpenGL
892 2010-11-16 11:17:34 <LobsterMan> m0mchil what was causing the problems with the other version?
893 2010-11-16 11:17:45 <m0mchil> dsg, perhaps, not sure if python-jsonrpc supports it
894 2010-11-16 11:18:11 <Diablo-D3> DiabloJSONRPC supports it :D
895 2010-11-16 11:18:13 <dsg> m0mchil: Yeah, it works fine if you change http for https :)
896 2010-11-16 11:18:22 <dsg> m0mchil: Just more problem for the precompiled windows miner
897 2010-11-16 11:18:23 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: http://pastebin.com/YdwmpUZi
898 2010-11-16 11:18:39 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: you dont have nvidia drivers functioning
899 2010-11-16 11:18:41 <m0mchil> LobsterMan, the problem is with the many test transactions recently... my patch didn't wait enough between including the transactions in block, hogging CPU
900 2010-11-16 11:18:52 <LobsterMan> ^_^
901 2010-11-16 11:18:54 <samfisher> Diablo-D3: man, but i enabled them
902 2010-11-16 11:18:59 <Diablo-D3> samfisher: double check system -> admin -> additional drivers
903 2010-11-16 11:19:34 <Diablo-D3> is it still checked?
904 2010-11-16 11:19:37 <samfisher> no
905 2010-11-16 11:19:43 <samfisher> was unchecked
906 2010-11-16 11:19:45 <Diablo-D3> lsmod | grep nvidia
907 2010-11-16 11:19:49 <Diablo-D3> does it list anything?
908 2010-11-16 11:20:08 <samfisher> no
909 2010-11-16 11:20:28 <Diablo-D3> dpkg -l | grep linux-image
910 2010-11-16 11:21:06 <samfisher> http://pastebin.com/wve2XYGU
911 2010-11-16 11:22:02 <Diablo-D3> erm, isnt that a 32 bit kernel?
912 2010-11-16 11:22:09 <Diablo-D3> you're on 64 bit hardware
913 2010-11-16 11:22:26 <samfisher> yes
914 2010-11-16 11:22:30 <samfisher> but it should work ok
915 2010-11-16 11:22:45 <Diablo-D3> "work" in the sense that you're giving up about 15% performance for no reason
916 2010-11-16 11:23:17 <samfisher> if it won't affect mining 15% i'll go with it
917 2010-11-16 11:23:25 <Diablo-D3> it might, who knows
918 2010-11-16 11:23:44 <samfisher> anyway, i'll let it this way
919 2010-11-16 11:23:50 <doublec> bitcoind 0.3.15 seems to sit at 2% cpu usage constantly
920 2010-11-16 11:23:55 <samfisher> i just want to see how i can mine
921 2010-11-16 11:23:57 <doublec> I don't recall prior versions of bitcoin doing that
922 2010-11-16 11:24:42 <Diablo-D3> apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.32-25-generic-pae
923 2010-11-16 11:25:50 <samfisher> no package with this name
924 2010-11-16 11:26:21 <Diablo-D3> http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/linux-headers-2.6.32-25-generic-pae_2.6.32-25.45_i386.deb
925 2010-11-16 11:26:26 <Diablo-D3> just wget it and dpkg -i it
926 2010-11-16 11:27:03 <samfisher> done
927 2010-11-16 11:27:54 <Diablo-D3> now try turning nvidia on again and rebooting
928 2010-11-16 11:28:52 <samfisher> nvidia are enabled
929 2010-11-16 11:29:13 <Diablo-D3> after a reboot?
930 2010-11-16 11:29:24 <samfisher> no, now
931 2010-11-16 11:29:33 <Diablo-D3> yes, but you _have to reboot first_
932 2010-11-16 11:29:40 <samfisher> ok. brb
933 2010-11-16 13:22:24 <brocktice> m0mchil: You fixed the problem in the bitcoin-getwork git?
934 2010-11-16 13:22:34 <brocktice> It looks to me like there's a memory leak
935 2010-11-16 13:22:46 <brocktice> After running all night bitcoind was taking up a gig of RAM and hogging CPU.
936 2010-11-16 13:23:48 <m0mchil> hm, didn't noticed memory leak, even with the non-fixed version
937 2010-11-16 13:24:16 <brocktice> I'm not sure if it's a problem with bitcoind or the patch
938 2010-11-16 13:24:25 <brocktice> I thought I'd come ask if anyone else had seen it before trying to track it down.
939 2010-11-16 13:24:30 <m0mchil> try with latest patch... it just adds wait period of 60 seconds before processing new transactions (as in original client)
940 2010-11-16 13:24:48 <brocktice> ok may run it in valgrind as well
941 2010-11-16 13:25:09 <brocktice> m0mchil: I continue to work on revamping the miner, but I don't have a lot of time and I'm still trying to understand the whole thing.
942 2010-11-16 13:25:18 <brocktice> minerd continues to work well for the most part but it needs fixes
943 2010-11-16 13:25:28 <brocktice> and I want to add double-buffering like Art uses.
944 2010-11-16 13:26:04 <m0mchil> ask, I'll try to help
945 2010-11-16 13:26:25 <brocktice> OK, once I figure out a few more things I will ask if I have specific questions.
946 2010-11-16 13:26:39 <brocktice> I should learn more about OpenCL anyway for work so it's two-for-one
947 2010-11-16 13:27:38 <brocktice> I'll watch this one for memory leaks and then if it's still doing it I'll run it in valgrind.
948 2010-11-16 13:27:44 <brocktice> got it built and running on Linux
949 2010-11-16 13:27:47 <brocktice> m0mchil: are you running on Windows?
950 2010-11-16 13:28:19 <m0mchil> yes, with 5770... and two 5970s on a debian squeeze
951 2010-11-16 13:28:57 <brocktice> Ah, by the way XxMalinxX said he's running two 5970s on windows, strangely enough he had to crossfire them
952 2010-11-16 13:29:01 <brocktice> then it worked at full speed
953 2010-11-16 13:29:04 <brocktice> (with a cable)
954 2010-11-16 13:30:17 <m0mchil> is he sure it works?
955 2010-11-16 13:30:51 <brocktice> Last I heard.
956 2010-11-16 13:31:03 <brocktice> I'll check again when he comes back on and see if it still seems to be working.
957 2010-11-16 13:43:12 <Diablo-D3> hmm
958 2010-11-16 13:43:16 <Diablo-D3> samfisher never came back
959 2010-11-16 13:43:51 <Diablo-D3> m0mchil: btw, did you see a slowdown with 10.10?
960 2010-11-16 13:44:16 <m0mchil> still with 10.9
961 2010-11-16 13:44:24 <Diablo-D3> hmm
962 2010-11-16 20:14:58 <anarchyx> UukGoblin: did you do aticonfig -f option?
963 2010-11-16 20:15:49 <UukGoblin> anarchyx, I did --initial
964 2010-11-16 20:15:49 <anarchyx> for me X hanged after i inserted more cards.. i had to reboot from cd and then run aticonfig --initial --adapter=all -f
965 2010-11-16 20:15:58 <anarchyx> that solved everything each time
966 2010-11-16 20:16:00 <UukGoblin> anarchyx, ah, awesome hint
967 2010-11-16 20:16:04 <UukGoblin> thanks a lot
968 2010-11-16 20:16:09 <anarchyx> np, let me know if it helped
969 2010-11-16 20:16:15 <anarchyx> without -f it didnt work
970 2010-11-16 20:19:13 <Kiba> did somebody called for me?
971 2010-11-16 20:20:42 <tcatm> mhm, sqlite3 is slower than a plain CSV file
972 2010-11-16 20:22:02 <nathan7> Depends.
973 2010-11-16 20:22:17 <UukGoblin> postgres / mysql can also be slower ;-]
974 2010-11-16 20:22:17 <nathan7> If you need to do a lot of random accesses, sqlite wins.
975 2010-11-16 20:22:26 <tcatm> i just ported bitcoincharts to sqlite3 and the index page takes > 500ms to generate
976 2010-11-16 20:22:45 <nathan7> That's probably mostly sequential access..
977 2010-11-16 20:23:01 <Kiba> so, FINALLY, I added a payment option for my TODO list web app
978 2010-11-16 20:23:07 <tcatm> yes though csv drops > 80% of the elements
979 2010-11-16 20:25:37 paul0__ has joined
980 2010-11-16 20:26:09 <UukGoblin> tcatm, is there an index on that field?
981 2010-11-16 20:26:23 <tcatm> umm no, not yet
982 2010-11-16 20:26:33 <tcatm> have to figure out how to add one (i'm using django)
983 2010-11-16 20:27:11 <brocktice> Is there any way, using only bitcoind, to see generated coins that have not yet matured?
984 2010-11-16 20:27:17 <brocktice> Do I need the listtransactions patch?
985 2010-11-16 20:29:24 Edogaa has joined
986 2010-11-16 20:29:43 <wumpus> mhm, sqlite3 is slower than a plain CSV file -> you did set up indexes on the attributes that you query on, right?
987 2010-11-16 20:30:08 <Edogaa> o_o How many times can you use freebitcoins?
988 2010-11-16 20:30:11 <tcatm> nope, I didn't. don't know how, yet
989 2010-11-16 20:30:12 <Edogaa> only once per person lol
990 2010-11-16 20:31:23 <gavinandresen> Edogaa: you'd be surprised at how much trouble some people seem to have following that simple "once per person" rule....
991 2010-11-16 20:31:39 <wumpus> i'm not surprised at that at all
992 2010-11-16 20:32:09 Edogaa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
993 2010-11-16 20:34:24 Edogaa has joined
994 2010-11-16 20:34:41 <Edogaa> As I asked, you can only use freebitcoins faucet once right?
995 2010-11-16 20:34:50 <wumpus> yeah yeah yeah
996 2010-11-16 20:35:02 <wumpus> only one free lunch per person
997 2010-11-16 20:35:38 <gavinandresen> Edogaa:  if you just want coins to play with, the -testnet faucet gives you as many as you like.
998 2010-11-16 20:35:51 <Edogaa> -testnet faucet?
999 2010-11-16 20:36:05 <gavinandresen> (run bitcoin -testnet, then visit https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/TEST/ )
1000 2010-11-16 20:36:07 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1812.0
1001 2010-11-16 20:36:10 <Kiba> new bounty!
1002 2010-11-16 20:37:45 baxter- has joined
1003 2010-11-16 20:38:20 <Edogaa> oh i see
1004 2010-11-16 20:38:52 <brocktice> Kiba: pledged
1005 2010-11-16 20:40:08 <baxter-> hey, i'm generating coins, have i misunderstood or would i expect my balance to go up eventually?
1006 2010-11-16 20:41:08 <wumpus> it will, just very slowly
1007 2010-11-16 20:41:15 <Edogaa> So test bitcoins are for experimenting with and the actual faucet is for 'real bitcoins'?
1008 2010-11-16 20:42:01 <Kiba> hai
1009 2010-11-16 20:42:14 <gavinandresen> Edogaa: exactly.  -testnet coins are worthless, but useful for testing code or seeing how bitcoin works.
1010 2010-11-16 20:42:16 <baxter-> wumpus: i know this is a difficult question to answer, but how slowly are we talking? i've been running bitcoin on 6 of 8 cores on my 2.8ghz i7 for 24 hours and 0 coins so far. is that expected?
1011 2010-11-16 20:42:21 <Kiba> baxter-: the chance will add up until you generate a block, which you are awarded for 50 btc
1012 2010-11-16 20:42:36 <gavinandresen> baxter: yeah, you should expect it to take a couple/few months.
1013 2010-11-16 20:42:40 <baxter-> ok
1014 2010-11-16 20:42:47 <paul0__> baxter-: how many khash/s?
1015 2010-11-16 20:42:54 <baxter-> atm 3091
1016 2010-11-16 20:42:56 <Kiba> baxter-: it's like playing a lotter million of time
1017 2010-11-16 20:43:09 <baxter-> now 3500
1018 2010-11-16 20:43:10 <wumpus> i heard the gpu version will do it much faster, but haven't tried yet
1019 2010-11-16 20:43:12 <paul0__> baxter-: http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
1020 2010-11-16 20:43:15 <baxter-> around 3250 i would say
1021 2010-11-16 20:43:21 <Kiba> for each core?
1022 2010-11-16 20:43:25 <Kiba> you
1023 2010-11-16 20:43:39 <Kiba> 're more likely to generate a block than me
1024 2010-11-16 20:43:41 <baxter-> nah i think that's in total
1025 2010-11-16 20:43:44 <anarchyx> at that speed it will take you about 70 days :)
1026 2010-11-16 20:43:48 <baxter-> cool
1027 2010-11-16 20:43:52 <paul0__> yeah
1028 2010-11-16 20:43:58 <baxter-> that's fine, i just wanted to make sure i wasn't doing it wrong :) thanks guys!
1029 2010-11-16 20:44:03 <paul0__> i'll take almos a year to get some bitcoins :(
1030 2010-11-16 20:44:12 <paul0__> almost
1031 2010-11-16 20:44:16 <anarchyx> thing is, it will get harder again every 2 weeks
1032 2010-11-16 20:44:17 <Kiba> somedays, I just got lucky
1033 2010-11-16 20:44:20 <anarchyx> so probably do that x3
1034 2010-11-16 20:44:21 <paul0__> 600 khash/s, lol
1035 2010-11-16 20:44:33 <brocktice> anarchyx: are you using m0's miner?
1036 2010-11-16 20:44:40 <anarchyx> yes
1037 2010-11-16 20:44:52 <brocktice> anarchyx: Do you know what the number output when a block is found is?
1038 2010-11-16 20:44:58 <anarchyx> i didnt even overclock my gpus
1039 2010-11-16 20:44:59 <brocktice> I looked at the code and it looks like it should be nonce
1040 2010-11-16 20:45:12 <brocktice> but it doesn't match any of the nonces for the blocks I know I generated in the block explorer
1041 2010-11-16 20:45:19 <brocktice> something to do with extraNonce?
1042 2010-11-16 20:45:54 <anarchyx> im not that technical - should i paste something on my screen?
1043 2010-11-16 20:45:54 <paul0__> what is m0 miner?
1044 2010-11-16 20:46:02 <brocktice> paul0__: m0mchil's miner
1045 2010-11-16 20:46:53 <anarchyx> that reminds me i should give him a donation
1046 2010-11-16 20:48:51 <brocktice> yeah me too
1047 2010-11-16 20:49:31 <AAA_awright> There has to be a project working on an end-to-end encrypted IP protocol
1048 2010-11-16 20:49:53 <AAA_awright> Where the IP address is the public key hash
1049 2010-11-16 20:50:41 <tcatm> even with indexes sql queries are slow. is there anything special i must do to use indexes?
1050 2010-11-16 20:51:33 <wumpus> you just need to define them
1051 2010-11-16 20:51:49 <wumpus> AAA_awright: how would using the ip address as a key help anything?
1052 2010-11-16 20:52:05 <tcatm> i did. even called reindex (which took some time to complete), still a query takes > 50ms
1053 2010-11-16 20:53:10 <AAA_awright> wumpus: Then you can't use a MITM attack
1054 2010-11-16 20:53:18 <wumpus> you need to check, at least mysql has a statement that shows whether an index is being used
1055 2010-11-16 20:53:22 <wumpus> explain <query> or something
1056 2010-11-16 20:53:47 <AAA_awright> Since the message encrypted with the public hey whose hash is the IP is only decryptable by the holder of that private key
1057 2010-11-16 20:54:03 <wumpus> AAA_awright: the man in the middle knows the IP addresses of both parties, so has no problem impersonating either even if you use an ip as key
1058 2010-11-16 20:54:21 <AAA_awright> You would have to encrypt the message for the man in the middle
1059 2010-11-16 20:54:33 <AAA_awright> And you would know it
1060 2010-11-16 20:54:49 <wumpus> but that only works if you already have a secret the mitm doesn't know
1061 2010-11-16 20:54:53 <AAA_awright> Well, you would know the private key that can decrypt it, you would have to falsely believe it is the actual person
1062 2010-11-16 20:55:21 <AAA_awright> Not with public-key crypto?
1063 2010-11-16 20:55:38 <AAA_awright> I can encrypt a message that only the recipiant can decrypt
1064 2010-11-16 20:55:49 <AAA_awright> *recipient
1065 2010-11-16 20:58:04 <wumpus> yes, but if the public key is just the IP adress, everyone knows that
1066 2010-11-16 20:59:12 <wumpus> it doesn't add any security... a man in the middle can easily pretend to have some IP address... you could just as well define the public key to always be 'blah'
1067 2010-11-16 21:00:34 Zarutian has joined
1068 2010-11-16 21:02:26 <Kiba> so, the bounty for a good android client is now 890 BTC
1069 2010-11-16 21:03:13 <AAA_awright> wumpus: I don't follow... If it weren't a valid public key then no one could decrypt the message
1070 2010-11-16 21:04:00 <AAA_awright> If it is valid, then only the person who has the private key of the public/private pair could read the message
1071 2010-11-16 21:04:27 <brocktice> Kiba: thing is, I'd been thinking of trying to hire someone to build one anyway
1072 2010-11-16 21:05:01 <brocktice> I'd work on it myself if I had time
1073 2010-11-16 21:05:19 <brocktice> Get that brucewagner guy to pony up
1074 2010-11-16 21:05:28 <brocktice> He seems so gung-ho but won't put his money where his mouth is.
1075 2010-11-16 21:10:01 <Kiba> brocktice: talked to him on twitter about it. Let see if he's going to put up some bitcoin in the future
1076 2010-11-16 21:10:04 <Kiba> err...soon
1077 2010-11-16 21:11:32 paul0__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1078 2010-11-16 21:15:33 warner has joined
1079 2010-11-16 21:15:50 <brocktice> Heh, I see you paraphrased my statement.
1080 2010-11-16 21:17:15 <Kiba> now...all we need is a developer who felt incentivized by this project
1081 2010-11-16 21:18:33 <brocktice> If we raise enough we could just pay someone off Elance or whatever to do it.
1082 2010-11-16 21:18:41 <brocktice> I had a basic app made for about $450
1083 2010-11-16 21:18:43 <brocktice> Android
1084 2010-11-16 21:21:04 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1085 2010-11-16 21:26:29 a_meteorite has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1086 2010-11-16 21:38:17 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1087 2010-11-16 21:38:51 tg has joined
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1090 2010-11-16 21:43:38 noagendamarket has joined
1091 2010-11-16 21:45:06 <johnyh> Kiba: what bounty?  please  PM me if something important
1092 2010-11-16 21:45:27 <johnyh> GUI client?
1093 2010-11-16 21:45:31 <UukGoblin> hmm
1094 2010-11-16 21:45:38 <UukGoblin> it only reboots the computer when I start up gdm
1095 2010-11-16 21:45:44 <UukGoblin> when I start up X normally it doesn't
1096 2010-11-16 21:46:43 <UukGoblin> I'll try older ubuntu.
1097 2010-11-16 21:48:43 <UukGoblin> (btw, the package made by the installer didn't have aticonfig in it. I had to install it via the 'install' option)
1098 2010-11-16 21:49:24 altamic has joined
1099 2010-11-16 21:51:54 <brocktice> UukGoblin: There should have been several packages
1100 2010-11-16 21:52:28 <brocktice> UukGoblin: 4 packages to be precise.
1101 2010-11-16 21:53:46 <UukGoblin> brocktice, yeah, installed them all
1102 2010-11-16 21:53:56 <brocktice> huh, strange
1103 2010-11-16 21:54:02 <UukGoblin> actually I think last time I did it I found aticonfig somewhere outside the $PATH...
1104 2010-11-16 21:54:12 <UukGoblin> anyway reinstalling.
1105 2010-11-16 21:54:19 <UukGoblin> it was rebooting the box even with 1 card
1106 2010-11-16 21:54:37 <UukGoblin> and power consumption was actually dropping from 0.860 amp down to 0.660
1107 2010-11-16 21:55:15 <brocktice> UukGoblin: Using dpkg -c I found aticonfig in the main fglrx package...
1108 2010-11-16 21:55:34 <brocktice> OH
1109 2010-11-16 21:55:39 <brocktice> h
1110 2010-11-16 21:55:40 <brocktice> hm
1111 2010-11-16 21:55:47 <brocktice> It's a symlink in /etc/alternatives
1112 2010-11-16 21:59:31 <UukGoblin> it put it in /usr/lib/fglrx/bin
1113 2010-11-16 21:59:58 <brocktice> yep that's where mine is
1114 2010-11-16 22:00:03 <brocktice> but something symlinked it
1115 2010-11-16 22:00:12 <brocktice> maybe because initially I installed the Ubuntu fglrx package?
1116 2010-11-16 22:00:25 <UukGoblin> dunno
1117 2010-11-16 22:03:10 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1812.0
1118 2010-11-16 22:03:11 <tcatm> Mhm. sqlite3 must be broken. Same DB setup and same Code on MySQL takes 40ms instead of > 700ms
1119 2010-11-16 22:04:19 <AAA_awright> tcatm: "vaccum; analyze"
1120 2010-11-16 22:04:37 <tcatm> where? sqlite3?
1121 2010-11-16 22:04:39 <AAA_awright> Yeah
1122 2010-11-16 22:05:07 <tcatm> what does it do?
1123 2010-11-16 22:06:24 <tcatm> 120ms, still worse than plain csv (around 80ms)
1124 2010-11-16 22:10:06 <AAA_awright> It cleans up deleted data and then optimizes indexes
1125 2010-11-16 22:16:20 <Edogaa> SO, how many bitcoins do tyou all have? D:
1126 2010-11-16 22:17:48 <UukGoblin> hrm, ubuntu lucid doesn't seem to have the python-pyopencl package... or I didn't add the right repo...
1127 2010-11-16 22:23:21 <brocktice> UukGoblin: did maverick?
1128 2010-11-16 22:23:24 <brocktice> I had to build it, wasn't too hard though
1129 2010-11-16 22:23:31 <brocktice> Oh wait
1130 2010-11-16 22:23:36 <brocktice> and I think the version it has is for nVidia
1131 2010-11-16 22:23:40 <brocktice> I think Lucid does
1132 2010-11-16 22:26:02 <astaroth> goblin...pyopencl in lucid repo is nvidia. makes a mess of your config. build it from scratch pointing to the correct directories in ATI sdk
1133 2010-11-16 22:26:12 <UukGoblin> thanks
1134 2010-11-16 22:27:35 <UukGoblin> I wonder if these Catalyst ATI drivers also install the SDK...
1135 2010-11-16 22:27:53 <astaroth> no...ATI stream sdk
1136 2010-11-16 22:28:20 <UukGoblin> and heh, ati drivers die when generating a package for lucid  :-] '*** glibc detcted *** ./setup.data/bin/x86_64/setup: double free or corruption (fasttop): ...'
1137 2010-11-16 22:31:24 <wumpus> Edogaa: 0.05 :p
1138 2010-11-16 22:31:47 <Edogaa> 150.16
1139 2010-11-16 22:32:13 <Edogaa> mine is so much smaller than most other users >:
1140 2010-11-16 22:32:44 <wumpus> i got those whole 5 cents from the bitcoin faucet :)
1141 2010-11-16 22:32:57 <Edogaa> Yeah
1142 2010-11-16 22:33:09 <wumpus> then again, i only started playing around with this two days ago
1143 2010-11-16 22:33:23 <Edogaa> I just want to see how far itcan grow :|
1144 2010-11-16 22:33:27 <Edogaa> within a year... lol
1145 2010-11-16 22:36:04 astaroth has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1146 2010-11-16 22:37:07 hunger has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
1147 2010-11-16 22:40:55 <Kiba> bitcoin price...droping!
1148 2010-11-16 22:41:26 <tcatm> it's falling the whole day
1149 2010-11-16 22:41:37 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1150 2010-11-16 22:42:39 <Kiba> resistance is....FUTILE!
1151 2010-11-16 22:44:01 <Kiba> it'll have to overcome... .2115
1152 2010-11-16 22:44:14 <Kiba> and then try to crush .17
1153 2010-11-16 22:44:24 <appamatto> What is it down to?
1154 2010-11-16 22:44:33 <tcatm> 0.225
1155 2010-11-16 22:44:44 <tcatm> see bitcoincharts.com :)
1156 2010-11-16 22:45:02 Maccer has joined
1157 2010-11-16 22:48:52 jrabbit has joined
1158 2010-11-16 22:51:42 <Kiba> voting...commence
1159 2010-11-16 22:51:47 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1787.0
1160 2010-11-16 22:51:59 <Kiba> I am beginning to hurting for bitcoins
1161 2010-11-16 22:52:13 <Kiba> TIME TO EARN MY BITCOINS
1162 2010-11-16 22:53:00 <LobsterMan> if you look at the market trends
1163 2010-11-16 22:53:06 <LobsterMan> the price has been all over the place lately
1164 2010-11-16 22:55:24 * Kiba is entering the bitcoin economy with his new business
1165 2010-11-16 22:55:42 <AAA_awright> Kiba: What's the business?
1166 2010-11-16 22:55:58 <anarchyx> lining up ati cards? :P
1167 2010-11-16 22:56:33 <Kiba> http://wwww.soulplaying.com
1168 2010-11-16 22:56:46 <Kiba> I got some serious usability issue and billing issue to work out
1169 2010-11-16 22:56:49 <Kiba> as well testing
1170 2010-11-16 22:56:51 <Kiba> need testing
1171 2010-11-16 22:56:55 <AAA_awright> DNS not working for me
1172 2010-11-16 22:57:01 <anarchyx> ditos
1173 2010-11-16 22:57:12 <Kiba> http://www.soulplaying.com
1174 2010-11-16 22:57:14 <Kiba> too many w
1175 2010-11-16 22:57:22 <appamatto> what is it?
1176 2010-11-16 22:57:40 <Kiba> a TODO list integrated with RPG elements
1177 2010-11-16 22:57:56 <anarchyx> fun idea
1178 2010-11-16 22:58:22 <appamatto> Yeah, there was a successful iphone app like that
1179 2010-11-16 22:58:32 <AAA_awright> Hah
1180 2010-11-16 22:58:48 <Kiba> it's a 15 days trial
1181 2010-11-16 22:59:01 <Kiba> than you pay 4 dollars worth of bitcoin every month
1182 2010-11-16 22:59:18 <Kiba> and the web app is open source too...
1183 2010-11-16 22:59:25 <AAA_awright> Kiba: You can power it with Magnode
1184 2010-11-16 22:59:31 <Kiba> Magnode?
1185 2010-11-16 22:59:47 <AAA_awright> My thing I linked you to
1186 2010-11-16 22:59:58 <Kiba> didn't see it
1187 2010-11-16 23:00:06 <AAA_awright> You said you saw it >_<
1188 2010-11-16 23:00:08 <AAA_awright> Kiba: http://magnode.bzfx.net/
1189 2010-11-16 23:00:33 <AAA_awright> Yeah
1190 2010-11-16 23:00:49 <Kiba> oh, I have no intention of using someone's CMS
1191 2010-11-16 23:01:44 <AAA_awright> Is that a loaded word to you?
1192 2010-11-16 23:02:01 <Kiba> AAA_awright: what I am using is a framework, not a CMS :)
1193 2010-11-16 23:02:04 <AAA_awright> I read that as "A CMS doesn't do anything like what I want"
1194 2010-11-16 23:02:08 <Kiba> it's apple to orange
1195 2010-11-16 23:02:23 <AAA_awright> Well what should I call it then
1196 2010-11-16 23:02:36 <Kiba> and, I invested heavily in learning rails
1197 2010-11-16 23:02:49 <AAA_awright> It manages data, really. It's the GUI frontend to a data framework
1198 2010-11-16 23:03:41 <Kiba> unless it complement my rails app...
1199 2010-11-16 23:03:56 <Kiba> but I do have the skills to construct my own node.js
1200 2010-11-16 23:04:08 <Kiba> which is far less baggage then learning someone's API
1201 2010-11-16 23:04:18 <Kiba> node.js web app
1202 2010-11-16 23:04:23 <Kiba> though it may be inferior..
1203 2010-11-16 23:04:48 <UukGoblin> yeah, the driver works on lucid, doesn't on maverick.
1204 2010-11-16 23:06:24 <Kiba> AAA_awright: I tell ya what, my business is indeed data driven...
1205 2010-11-16 23:06:38 <Kiba> as far as the direction I am looking to take
1206 2010-11-16 23:07:13 <AAA_awright> Now, this is no-where useable as it is, but it does work somewhat well... I can generate webpages by quering data sources as RDF data, which is the goal
1207 2010-11-16 23:08:37 <Kiba> I am uninterested in duplication of functionality
1208 2010-11-16 23:09:10 <AAA_awright> Where would that be a consern?
1209 2010-11-16 23:10:16 <AAA_awright> The applications related to Bitcoin I am interested in are monitoring markets in real-time, graphing the data, and doing analysis on them with a query interface of sorts
1210 2010-11-16 23:12:00 <Kiba> my rails app already generate webpages
1211 2010-11-16 23:12:38 <tcatm> AAA_awright: i've already written that ;)
1212 2010-11-16 23:13:12 <AAA_awright> tcatm: All of that?
1213 2010-11-16 23:13:24 <Kiba> bitcoinchart?
1214 2010-11-16 23:13:25 <tcatm> except realtime. that's what i'm working at
1215 2010-11-16 23:13:29 <AAA_awright> I'm talking, for instance, what if you wanted to graph the price of Oil in Bitcoins?
1216 2010-11-16 23:13:31 <Kiba> bitcoinchart seem to be competing against bitcoinwatch
1217 2010-11-16 23:14:16 <tcatm> AAA_awright: yes, i'm planing to add "derived" graphs for such things (mainly gold)
1218 2010-11-16 23:14:35 <AAA_awright> Could you query your database with "plot log-scale 'price of oil' / 'price of bitcoin:usd' interpolate=linear"
1219 2010-11-16 23:14:49 <AAA_awright> Something functionally like that
1220 2010-11-16 23:14:56 <tcatm> yes
1221 2010-11-16 23:15:11 <tcatm> well if i had the price of oil
1222 2010-11-16 23:15:28 <AAA_awright> That's the part I'm working on
1223 2010-11-16 23:15:37 <tcatm> maybe we could work together?
1224 2010-11-16 23:15:51 <AAA_awright> I'm representing all data as RDF so you can natively relate data to each other... heard of linked data?
1225 2010-11-16 23:15:58 <AAA_awright> tcatm: I'm always looking for collaborators :)
1226 2010-11-16 23:16:08 baxter- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1227 2010-11-16 23:16:22 <tcatm> nope, never heard of linked data...
1228 2010-11-16 23:19:24 <tcatm> Kiba: i'm not really competing. I try not to duplicate the data bitcoinwatch shows.
1229 2010-11-16 23:20:00 <AAA_awright> tcatm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_Data
1230 2010-11-16 23:20:20 <AAA_awright> tcatm: What work do you have done so far/
1231 2010-11-16 23:20:31 <tcatm> look at bitcoincharts.com
1232 2010-11-16 23:20:49 <tcatm> i'm currently rewriting it to make it realtime capable
1233 2010-11-16 23:20:52 <AAA_awright> http:// bitcoincharts.com
1234 2010-11-16 23:20:55 <AAA_awright> http://bitcoincharts.com
1235 2010-11-16 23:21:50 <AAA_awright> tcatm: Let me sell you this technology I'm working on
1236 2010-11-16 23:22:09 <tcatm> what can i do with it?
1237 2010-11-16 23:22:13 <AAA_awright> It cost nothing btw :)
1238 2010-11-16 23:22:27 <AAA_awright> Have you heard of Node.js?
1239 2010-11-16 23:22:45 <tcatm> nope
1240 2010-11-16 23:23:03 <tcatm> nodejs.org?
1241 2010-11-16 23:23:04 <AAA_awright> It's server-side javascript, which is being used to serve high-concurrency web apps like long-polling and such, it comes with a basic HTTP server library
1242 2010-11-16 23:23:06 <AAA_awright> Yeah
1243 2010-11-16 23:23:10 <AAA_awright> http://nodejs.org
1244 2010-11-16 23:23:13 <tcatm> interesting
1245 2010-11-16 23:23:29 <AAA_awright> It uses the langage of the web, that's one of the cool things
1246 2010-11-16 23:23:39 <tcatm> seems like a solution for realtime updates?
1247 2010-11-16 23:23:40 <AAA_awright> So it's an awesome choice for serving entire websites
1248 2010-11-16 23:23:43 <AAA_awright> Yes
1249 2010-11-16 23:24:03 <AAA_awright> Almost no one uses it for entire websites, it's just a basic application platform
1250 2010-11-16 23:24:19 <altamic> tcam: to have an idea of some node app: http://nodeknockout.com/
1251 2010-11-16 23:24:21 <johnyh> ArtForz: do you have a list of typical ATIs and some NVs with projected Mspeed (so I dont have to re-doit) that you can share?
1252 2010-11-16 23:24:48 <AAA_awright> tcatm: Also imagine that the client doesn't support javascript... no problem, just run that javascript client-side and send the rendered HTML or images to the client instead
1253 2010-11-16 23:24:56 <AAA_awright> er, run the javascript server-side
1254 2010-11-16 23:25:29 <AAA_awright> So you can use interactive graphs with something like http://vis.stanford.edu/protovis/
1255 2010-11-16 23:25:49 <AAA_awright> But if the client doesn't support the javascript, you can still send a static image rendered with that very library anyways
1256 2010-11-16 23:26:17 <tcatm> interesting
1257 2010-11-16 23:26:45 <tcatm> for now, serving on-the-fly generated PNGs is the easier solution, though
1258 2010-11-16 23:27:06 <AAA_awright> There's an HTML canvas API that protoviz could use, or you could let the client render the canvas if it supports that
1259 2010-11-16 23:27:12 <anarchyx> i can hear from the fan noise coming out of the other room if my bitcoin client has crashed or not lol
1260 2010-11-16 23:27:39 <AAA_awright> There's already a working DOM implementation so you can render YUI wigits as HTML and send them to the web browser
1261 2010-11-16 23:27:43 <anarchyx> hows the weather today? hot and lots of gpu wind
1262 2010-11-16 23:28:03 <AAA_awright> tcatm: With Node.js it would be interchangable... you could have interactive charts
1263 2010-11-16 23:28:24 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1264 2010-11-16 23:28:25 <AAA_awright> Fetch data from the server as necessary...
1265 2010-11-16 23:28:33 <AAA_awright> Oh, and the other cool part of what I'm doing
1266 2010-11-16 23:28:41 <AAA_awright> All data is represented internally as RDF
1267 2010-11-16 23:29:33 <AAA_awright> Each data point is represented with a URI that can link to other URIs, so computers know how the data relates to each other, and can even infer information that doesn't exist
1268 2010-11-16 23:29:35 <tcatm> Might be a nice future add-on when there a really many trades each day
1269 2010-11-16 23:30:07 <AAA_awright> That hasn't been explicitly defined, e.g. "Henry" is a "Ford" and "Ford" is a brand of car, so with RDF you could infer that "Henry" is also a car.
1270 2010-11-16 23:30:11 <tcatm> for now server-rendered PNGs must suffice until the realtime backend is working
1271 2010-11-16 23:31:01 <AAA_awright> What's this all programmed in?
1272 2010-11-16 23:31:07 duck1123_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1273 2010-11-16 23:31:18 <tcatm> currently perl, but i'm porting do python/django
1274 2010-11-16 23:31:22 <AAA_awright> You are still thinking in terms of seperate backend and frontend libraries
1275 2010-11-16 23:31:30 <tcatm> and from plain CSV files to SQL
1276 2010-11-16 23:31:33 <AAA_awright> Port to my Node.js application
1277 2010-11-16 23:32:02 <AAA_awright> It would be great if I had a working (impressive) example...
1278 2010-11-16 23:32:22 <tcatm> i'm using a charting library that does most of the technical indicators work
1279 2010-11-16 23:32:30 <tcatm> i can't port that to node.js
1280 2010-11-16 23:32:57 <AAA_awright> Use a library that's already written
1281 2010-11-16 23:33:09 <AAA_awright> Of course you can port that
1282 2010-11-16 23:34:05 <tcatm> it would take a few weeks
1283 2010-11-16 23:34:30 <AAA_awright> What does it do?
1284 2010-11-16 23:35:00 <tcatm> look at the charts @ bitcoincharts.com and add some technical indicators
1285 2010-11-16 23:35:09 <anarchyx> im gonna write a song.. called: bitcoin fever
1286 2010-11-16 23:35:18 <tcatm> i'm feeding it raw datapoints and it does all the needed calculations
1287 2010-11-16 23:40:58 <AAA_awright> tcatm: Why can't anything else do that?
1288 2010-11-16 23:42:06 <tcatm> it can
1289 2010-11-16 23:42:10 <tcatm> it just has to be written
1290 2010-11-16 23:46:36 <AAA_awright> tcatm: With what I'm doing, you could just write a schema that describes how to generate that data, from other data... And whenever you update the database, it would update the inferred data, and even push it to the web browser
1291 2010-11-16 23:47:11 <tcatm> yes it sounds interesting
1292 2010-11-16 23:56:29 <AAA_awright> tcatm: What library are you using for all of that?
1293 2010-11-16 23:56:37 <tcatm> graphs? ChartDirector
1294 2010-11-16 23:57:50 <AAA_awright> The technical indicators
1295 2010-11-16 23:57:59 <tcatm> yes that's ChartDirector