1 2010-11-18 00:00:25 <davex__> e.g. can they figure out who has what coin? seems like they could only do it if they could map an IP address to an originator of a transaction
2 2010-11-18 00:00:55 <davex__> although i guess that would just tell them who *had* the coin
3 2010-11-18 00:02:03 <xelister> anonimity of bitcoin is VERY weak, in todays standards
4 2010-11-18 00:02:38 <xelister> and in BTC<->USD, there is the USD part
5 2010-11-18 00:02:41 <xelister> probably bank
6 2010-11-18 00:02:46 Akiraa has quit (Quit: Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do...)
7 2010-11-18 00:03:16 <davex__> the exchange part is easy, you don't need a bank for that
8 2010-11-18 00:03:56 <xelister> then what else?
9 2010-11-18 00:04:04 <davex__> individuals willing to make the exchange for you
10 2010-11-18 00:04:09 <xelister> for user in Europe, Poland for example
11 2010-11-18 00:04:17 <davex__> government can't shut them all down
12 2010-11-18 00:04:34 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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16 2010-11-18 00:47:48 <davex__> I'm experimenting with the JSON-RPC, someone mind sending a coin my way? 1CDgsuCBwJoWdqWgs4EyvveeNyBf7GPxHB
17 2010-11-18 00:47:50 redMBA has joined
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19 2010-11-18 00:55:30 <davex__> thanks
20 2010-11-18 00:58:26 Kiba has joined
21 2010-11-18 01:03:28 <xelister> you know what we totally need to get into the UI client
22 2010-11-18 01:04:03 <xelister> function that when a block is generate, a sound CH-CHING! is played :]
23 2010-11-18 01:04:04 <tcatm> ?
24 2010-11-18 01:04:16 <xelister> ArtForz would need to disconnect speakers probably
25 2010-11-18 01:04:42 <xelister> africanamericans can change option to get sound Bling-bling! instead
26 2010-11-18 01:04:57 <Kiba> the bling-bling gun!
27 2010-11-18 01:05:01 <tcatm> cool idea
28 2010-11-18 01:05:23 <tcatm> looks like prices are going down again
29 2010-11-18 01:05:26 <xelister> actually it is easy as shit usin system that would execute aplay in background
30 2010-11-18 01:05:45 <xelister> tcatm: perhaps just a small rebounce
31 2010-11-18 01:05:59 alystair has joined
32 2010-11-18 01:06:04 Akiraa has joined
33 2010-11-18 01:06:07 <tcatm> i like those bounces :)
34 2010-11-18 01:06:09 <xelister> tcatm: I wonder if the last increase, from 0.06 --> 0.20 is a model of what will happen now (grow up, bounce a bit, stablize)
35 2010-11-18 01:06:30 Akiraa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
36 2010-11-18 01:08:05 <Kiba> well, it's going to be harder to move up in price as time goes on
37 2010-11-18 01:08:47 <xelister> would be nice to have bigger demand on BTC
38 2010-11-18 01:09:05 <tcatm> i think 0.20 USD/BTC is a good price
39 2010-11-18 01:09:06 <Kiba> then pledge some money for the android client
40 2010-11-18 01:09:26 <xelister> why android client would be important?
41 2010-11-18 01:09:32 <Kiba> if you want more demand for BTC so you can make more caaash
42 2010-11-18 01:09:35 <xelister> imho, lots of e-services offered over BTC are the key
43 2010-11-18 01:09:39 <Kiba> xelister: so people can physically trade
44 2010-11-18 01:09:44 <Kiba> Hand me cash, I hand you bitcoins
45 2010-11-18 01:09:47 <Kiba> and off you go
46 2010-11-18 01:10:09 <xelister> hand me cash,
47 2010-11-18 01:10:11 <xelister> *BAM* I took you wallet! lol
48 2010-11-18 01:10:15 <xelister> and android
49 2010-11-18 01:10:52 <Kiba> well, yeah sure..e-services?
50 2010-11-18 01:10:55 <Kiba> what kind of name is that?
51 2010-11-18 01:11:22 <xelister> hand me cash, and you're under arest. Government. Shut your face, know your place, no free trading for you, slace
52 2010-11-18 01:11:25 <Kiba> well, the key here is that your investment in the bitcoin economy..will yield more bitcoins services..which will increase demand.
53 2010-11-18 01:11:26 <xelister> *slave
54 2010-11-18 01:11:41 <Kiba> which will make price go up
55 2010-11-18 01:11:48 <Kiba> which make your bitcoin more valuable
56 2010-11-18 01:11:49 <xelister> what name you like more?
57 2010-11-18 01:12:08 <xelister> services offered remotelly; Especially IT alike. like development, webdesign, hosting, etc
58 2010-11-18 01:12:09 <Kiba> 1690 bitcoins is available
59 2010-11-18 01:12:35 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1812.0
60 2010-11-18 01:13:01 <Kiba> 422.5 @ .25 cents
61 2010-11-18 01:13:21 <Kiba> pretty good
62 2010-11-18 01:13:59 <Kiba> xelister: there are people who are willing to develop, host..and web design
63 2010-11-18 01:14:12 <Kiba> but a lack of demand for such services
64 2010-11-18 01:14:27 <xelister> hm
65 2010-11-18 01:14:46 <Kiba> well, if you're willing to develop, you could take on the existing bounty
66 2010-11-18 01:15:08 <Kiba> like the 1690 BTC bounty
67 2010-11-18 01:15:18 <xelister> for android client?
68 2010-11-18 01:15:20 <Kiba> I think another guy offers some money for a vBulletin plugin for bitcoin
69 2010-11-18 01:15:30 <xelister> but that is a full reimplementation of bitcoind + gui?
70 2010-11-18 01:15:32 <Kiba> xelister: yes, to facilitate local transaction.
71 2010-11-18 01:15:47 <Kiba> I am not looking for a full reimplementation...
72 2010-11-18 01:15:49 <xelister> over.. bluetooth?
73 2010-11-18 01:16:19 <Kiba> just some features so people can sell stuff on the streets for bitcoins
74 2010-11-18 01:16:38 <xelister> "on the streets" :)
75 2010-11-18 01:16:56 <xelister> hey homie lets hit the streets for some bitcoinz ans hit
76 2010-11-18 01:16:58 <tcatm> it's unlikely to meet someone using bitcoin in person
77 2010-11-18 01:17:26 <Kiba> perhaps.
78 2010-11-18 01:17:37 <Kiba> but this is a long term project.
79 2010-11-18 01:19:34 <xelister> once I meet in person a lady that was using bitcoin
80 2010-11-18 01:19:50 <xelister> at least that what I thought
81 2010-11-18 01:19:55 <xelister> boy, was the pimp mad at hell
82 2010-11-18 01:19:59 <xelister> as
83 2010-11-18 01:20:00 <xelister> <_<
84 2010-11-18 01:20:18 * Kiba is not amused today.
85 2010-11-18 01:20:30 * xelister puts amusment cat on Kiba's celing
86 2010-11-18 01:25:59 <xelister> btw, if I would have 3000 BTC to sell, would you/other buyers likelly offer price a bit better then current prices at say www.bitcoinmarket.com - or is that rather not possible?
87 2010-11-18 01:26:48 <Kiba> I don't have any money to buy 3000 BTC
88 2010-11-18 01:27:25 <xelister> did you invested into BTC before in some way?
89 2010-11-18 01:27:41 <Kiba> I invested 6 dollars and a boatload of time
90 2010-11-18 01:27:48 <Kiba> I also bet 500 dollars that it will succeeded
91 2010-11-18 01:28:12 <xelister> bet?
92 2010-11-18 01:28:29 <Kiba> xelister: yes, I made a bet with some other guy about the future of bitcoin
93 2010-11-18 01:28:37 <Kiba> bitcoin success mean that I am 500 dollars richer.
94 2010-11-18 01:29:03 <theymos> Why would you do such a bet in dollars?
95 2010-11-18 01:29:20 <Kiba> theymos: because he believes that bitcoin will fail.
96 2010-11-18 01:29:38 <xelister> :)
97 2010-11-18 01:29:47 <xelister> Kiba: what is the bect exactly?
98 2010-11-18 01:29:50 <xelister> "succeed"
99 2010-11-18 01:30:01 <Kiba> about 10,000 people will use bitcoins by 2015.
100 2010-11-18 01:30:52 <Kiba> my success is tied to bitcoin's success, yo.
101 2010-11-18 01:31:09 <xelister> ArtForz: do you remembe the cost-factor to convert cores*time into Mhash for nvidia 2xx 3xx 4xx 5xx 6xx ? it is 4250 on radeon-5770 it seems
102 2010-11-18 01:31:13 <Kiba> bitcoin community is basically a bunch of optimistic anarcho-capitalists
103 2010-11-18 01:31:25 <xelister> Kiba: woot
104 2010-11-18 01:31:28 <Kiba> the rest are naysayers
105 2010-11-18 01:31:33 <Kiba> who are anarcho-capitalists
106 2010-11-18 01:31:46 <xelister> Kiba: perhaps you would like invest BTCs into my friend small bitcoin awarness campaign
107 2010-11-18 01:31:46 <Kiba> who don't think bitcoin will succeed
108 2010-11-18 01:31:54 <xelister> actually, perhaps more people want to?
109 2010-11-18 01:32:00 <Kiba> xelister: I have several projects...
110 2010-11-18 01:32:11 <xelister> want another good one?
111 2010-11-18 01:32:26 <xelister> it will run in PL, and PL seems to be very good with opensource and privacy,
112 2010-11-18 01:32:36 <Kiba> PL is what?
113 2010-11-18 01:32:37 <xelister> check out i2p, tor, freenet, open-source, linux per country stats
114 2010-11-18 01:32:39 <xelister> Poland
115 2010-11-18 01:32:41 <Kiba> got too many projects...
116 2010-11-18 01:32:57 <xelister> afair 3rd main cryptosystems user in EU
117 2010-11-18 01:33:01 <xelister> after UK and FR
118 2010-11-18 01:33:02 <tcatm> Kiba: what are you working on?
119 2010-11-18 01:33:04 <xelister> near DE
120 2010-11-18 01:33:19 <Kiba> tcatm: the CCC campaign.
121 2010-11-18 01:33:26 <Kiba> the bitcoin galore meme contest
122 2010-11-18 01:33:33 <xelister> Kiba: url?
123 2010-11-18 01:33:39 <Kiba> bitcoin.org/smf
124 2010-11-18 01:34:22 <Kiba> and I got a new business that accept bitcoin
125 2010-11-18 01:34:40 <Kiba> in addition to my bitcoin spectulation
126 2010-11-18 01:35:44 <tcatm> what's the business?
127 2010-11-18 01:36:09 <Kiba> http:/www.soulplaying.com
128 2010-11-18 01:36:18 <Kiba> it's a clusterfuck of a web app
129 2010-11-18 01:36:30 <Kiba> but it's my first web app.
130 2010-11-18 01:37:09 warner has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
131 2010-11-18 01:37:47 <xelister> Kiba: a demo page would help
132 2010-11-18 01:38:18 <xelister> there seems to be literally no information about what it is, before I enter registration details
133 2010-11-18 01:38:57 <tcatm> reminds me of chore wars
134 2010-11-18 01:40:17 <xelister> btw anyone mines with nvidia here?
135 2010-11-18 01:40:25 <tcatm> nope
136 2010-11-18 01:42:02 <xelister> it is shaders * shader-clock / constant / 4 (if I used constant from radeon-5xxx) right?
137 2010-11-18 01:42:15 <xelister> is the constant even worse then /4 for radeons-8xxx ?
138 2010-11-18 01:42:21 <xelister> is the constant even worse then /4 for nv-8xxx ?
139 2010-11-18 01:43:08 <LobsterMan> xelister i use nvidia
140 2010-11-18 01:43:17 * xelister lols @ LobsterMan
141 2010-11-18 01:43:23 <xelister> seriously though ;)
142 2010-11-18 01:43:25 <LobsterMan> ya....
143 2010-11-18 01:43:27 <LobsterMan> better than nothing
144 2010-11-18 01:43:36 <xelister> LobsterMan: what card and what is your speed? Im verifing my formula for NV's speed
145 2010-11-18 01:43:51 <LobsterMan> i get about 50mhash from a gtx275
146 2010-11-18 01:44:05 <Kiba> xelister: post it here, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1557.0
147 2010-11-18 01:44:26 <Kiba> IRC is like talking, I'll forget what we talk about yesterday
148 2010-11-18 01:45:55 <xelister> Kiba: post what there?
149 2010-11-18 01:46:04 <xelister> LobsterMan: OC'd?
150 2010-11-18 01:46:08 <LobsterMan> no, stock
151 2010-11-18 01:46:45 <xelister> my formula says 43
152 2010-11-18 01:46:51 <LobsterMan> it averages like 50-51mhash but can spike up as high almost as 53
153 2010-11-18 01:47:18 <xelister> does gtx have better instruction set then gts
154 2010-11-18 01:47:31 <Kiba> xelister: in my thread on my site
155 2010-11-18 01:47:42 <LobsterMan> xelister it's possible, it's a newer card
156 2010-11-18 01:47:46 <Kiba> err
157 2010-11-18 01:47:47 <Kiba> on the forum
158 2010-11-18 01:47:51 <LobsterMan> gtx275 was fairly high end about a year ago
159 2010-11-18 01:48:29 <xelister> LobsterMan: my compuer > devices? :)
160 2010-11-18 01:48:37 <xelister> ah you ment... ok nevermind
161 2010-11-18 01:49:08 <LobsterMan> moo: os: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - (6.1.7600) up: 2days 4hrs 13mins 47secs cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz (x64) at 2668MHz (96% Load) gfx: NVIDIA NVxx 896MB res: 1920x1200 32bit 59Hz ram: 3158/6135.1MB (51.48%) [|||||-----] hdd: C:\ 10.95GB/297.99GB D:\ 23.94GB/931.51GB F:\ 11.14GB/1.36TB net: Marvell Yukon 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
162 2010-11-18 01:49:08 <LobsterMan> Controller - 100MB/s 85.36GB In 26.76GB Out
163 2010-11-18 01:49:35 <LobsterMan> should show gfx: NVIDIA GTX275 896MB
164 2010-11-18 01:49:36 <LobsterMan> lol
165 2010-11-18 01:50:45 tcatm has quit (Quit: quit)
166 2010-11-18 01:51:18 <xelister> are there at all any nvidias
167 2010-11-18 01:51:22 <xelister> that do not suck for bc mining
168 2010-11-18 01:51:28 <LobsterMan> unlikely
169 2010-11-18 01:51:29 <LobsterMan> lol
170 2010-11-18 01:55:50 <Kiba> somebody should suprise Neal Stephenson with a thing-o-matic bitcoin combo
171 2010-11-18 01:56:15 <Kiba> The Neal Stephenson Award
172 2010-11-18 02:04:57 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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175 2010-11-18 02:08:36 <davex__> kiba: not sure about the anarcho-capitalist thing. there seems to be a lot of keynesian liquidity trap nonsense in the forums
176 2010-11-18 02:08:51 <davex__> although maybe those guys don't use it
177 2010-11-18 02:09:11 <Kiba> davex__: liqudity trap nonsense which are repeatly refuted
178 2010-11-18 02:09:14 <Kiba> to death
179 2010-11-18 02:09:37 <Kiba> there will alway be people who thinks bitcoin is backed by CPU computation for example
180 2010-11-18 02:09:42 <Kiba> which is a bunch of nonsense
181 2010-11-18 02:10:28 <davex__> i think that's coming from the proto-austrian "gold is money" crowd
182 2010-11-18 02:12:41 <brocktice> Kiba: Depends on your definition of "backed"
183 2010-11-18 02:12:41 <davex__> not sure why people think that money needs to be backed by something. that's credit
184 2010-11-18 02:13:02 <brocktice> I tell you what, dedicated miners are not going to sell bitcoins at a loss though
185 2010-11-18 02:13:30 <brocktice> It's also "backed" by the fact that nobody can just go out and print more out of thin air disproportionately to everyone else.
186 2010-11-18 02:13:47 <brocktice> Unlike certain fiat currencies that are being inflated 7% over 6 months.
187 2010-11-18 02:13:50 <xelister> WHAT ???
188 2010-11-18 02:13:56 <xelister> no bitcoin article at wikipedia?!
189 2010-11-18 02:13:57 <xelister> why
190 2010-11-18 02:14:02 <brocktice> xelister: baleeted
191 2010-11-18 02:14:15 <xelister> what?
192 2010-11-18 02:14:16 <brocktice> I think someone put it on the Mises wiki though
193 2010-11-18 02:14:25 <brocktice> xelister: someone didn't like it so it was baleeted
194 2010-11-18 02:14:30 <xelister> wtf is baleeted
195 2010-11-18 02:14:35 <brocktice> I have a friend at wikimedia foundation, maybe I should give her a ring
196 2010-11-18 02:14:37 <brocktice> Deleted.
197 2010-11-18 02:14:38 <davex__> homestar runner
198 2010-11-18 02:14:58 <brocktice> davex__: Oh yeah, I barely remembered myself. :)
199 2010-11-18 02:16:31 <xelister> why they delete it?
200 2010-11-18 02:16:42 <brocktice> I'm not sure, i think it's mentioned on the forums somewhere
201 2010-11-18 02:16:47 <Kiba> because it was deemed "non-notable"
202 2010-11-18 02:17:02 <Kiba> in other words, we're not famous
203 2010-11-18 02:18:58 <Kiba> we're not famous...we're not famous...we're not famous...we're FAMOUS!
204 2010-11-18 02:19:05 <brocktice> I'
205 2010-11-18 02:19:13 <brocktice> I'm sending my wikimedia friend a message about it
206 2010-11-18 02:19:19 <xelister> good brocktice
207 2010-11-18 02:19:21 <brocktice> See if we can get some advice on how to make it 'notable'
208 2010-11-18 02:19:44 <xelister> brocktice: you can also write on Freenet page that since late 2010 people are considering donations in it
209 2010-11-18 02:19:59 <xelister> and on EFF/TOR page you can add they accept donations
210 2010-11-18 02:20:08 <brocktice> I'm not going to mention the page itself unless she asks.
211 2010-11-18 02:20:19 <brocktice> Lest it look like I'm trying to get her to pull strings.
212 2010-11-18 02:21:24 <Kiba> you know somebody at wikimedia?
213 2010-11-18 02:21:30 <brocktice> Kiba: yep
214 2010-11-18 02:21:34 <brocktice> she just started working there recently though
215 2010-11-18 02:22:09 <Kiba> connections matter!
216 2010-11-18 02:22:10 <xelister> ASK HERE IF SHE ACCEPTS BITCOINS
217 2010-11-18 02:22:12 <xelister> >_>
218 2010-11-18 02:22:16 <brocktice> Oh do they ever.
219 2010-11-18 02:22:24 <Kiba> that why we are able to get bitcoins accepted at mtgox
220 2010-11-18 02:22:26 <xelister> - I accept bitcoins - that's what /she/ said
221 2010-11-18 02:22:32 <Kiba> xelister: dude....
222 2010-11-18 02:22:33 <xelister> Kiba: some ids for bitcoin memes lol
223 2010-11-18 02:22:43 <Kiba> err
224 2010-11-18 02:22:47 <Kiba> bitcoin accepted at EFF
225 2010-11-18 02:22:54 <xelister> yes, they accept
226 2010-11-18 02:22:59 <Kiba> xelister: dude, we're not big and improtant enough for wikimedia to consider yet
227 2010-11-18 02:23:58 <xelister> wikipedia should accept bitcoins
228 2010-11-18 02:24:02 <Kiba> wikimedia
229 2010-11-18 02:24:09 <xelister> well wikiwhatever
230 2010-11-18 02:24:15 <Kiba> lol
231 2010-11-18 02:31:34 Xunie has joined
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233 2010-11-18 02:31:40 Xunie has joined
234 2010-11-18 02:34:36 <xelister> how about, if we get some bounty, I know people taht could spead the word about bitcoin in PL
235 2010-11-18 02:35:02 <xelister> poland. we are 3rd or 4th crypto-like network systems users in EU (UK,FR, DE/PL)
236 2010-11-18 02:35:41 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
237 2010-11-18 02:47:38 <Kiba> xelister: post any bounty lately?
238 2010-11-18 02:50:17 <xelister> Kiba: I ment, if someone would set such a bounty, we could implement it. Or perhaps even the android thing (in late December)
239 2010-11-18 02:50:28 <xelister> Kiba: how you imaging this android thing would work?\
240 2010-11-18 02:52:41 <Kiba> I am offering the bounty, not implementing it
241 2010-11-18 02:53:02 <Kiba> xelister: whatever make it easy for people to exchange goods for bitcoins on local level
242 2010-11-18 02:57:15 <dwdollar1> http://video.pbs.org/video/1646871620/
243 2010-11-18 02:57:34 <dwdollar1> Another Rockefeller scheme...
244 2010-11-18 02:58:49 <Kiba> dwdollar1: how your next generation site going?
245 2010-11-18 02:58:53 <Kiba> MTGOX is beating you!
246 2010-11-18 03:00:09 <brocktice> Price is oscillating like crazy lately between 0.22 and 0.3
247 2010-11-18 03:00:33 redMBA has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
248 2010-11-18 03:00:39 <davex__> i think that's just because of the wide bid-ask spread
249 2010-11-18 03:00:54 redMBA has joined
250 2010-11-18 03:00:59 <Kiba> when there is wide bid-ask, it's best to close the gap
251 2010-11-18 03:01:07 <Kiba> you get PROFITs for doing so
252 2010-11-18 03:01:41 <davex__> how so? isn't it just a result of market illiquidity?
253 2010-11-18 03:02:02 <Kiba> it's only 0.0065
254 2010-11-18 03:02:09 <xelister> Kiba: ok I will think about this, by local level you mean people easly paying in BTCs in exchange for services or cash delivered in person?
255 2010-11-18 03:02:20 <Kiba> hai.
256 2010-11-18 03:02:51 <dwdollar1> Kiba: Still going to be awhile. I'm taking my time on it.
257 2010-11-18 03:03:19 <xelister> you think it will go up even to like 0.35 or 0.40 ?
258 2010-11-18 03:03:19 <Kiba> there is a certain degree of...abritage opportunity...
259 2010-11-18 03:03:22 <davex__> hmm, you're right. thought it was wider than that
260 2010-11-18 03:03:25 <Kiba> too much resistance
261 2010-11-18 03:03:37 <Kiba> need somebody with BIG DOLLARS
262 2010-11-18 03:03:51 <brocktice> someone call the Paul family
263 2010-11-18 03:04:04 <Kiba> the more asks piling up, the more resistance
264 2010-11-18 03:04:21 Maccer has joined
265 2010-11-18 03:04:24 dwdollar1 is now known as dwdollar
266 2010-11-18 03:06:36 * Kiba learns all his trading terminology...from bitcoin spectulators
267 2010-11-18 03:08:52 alystair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
268 2010-11-18 03:09:31 <davex__> brocktice, or call into Peter Schiff's radio show, bet he'd be interested
269 2010-11-18 03:09:51 <brocktice> davex__: Yeah probably, good call
270 2010-11-18 03:45:45 <davex__> so pretty sure porting bitcoind to android is going to be a bitch
271 2010-11-18 03:46:57 <Kiba> the objective is to make it easy for people to do local transaction
272 2010-11-18 03:47:00 <Kiba> not mine bitcoins
273 2010-11-18 03:56:47 <jgarzik> running an active bitcoin P2P client on a phone is a pointless waste of power -- and that's with coin generation switched -off-
274 2010-11-18 04:01:29 <davex__> ya seems server would be running elsewhere
275 2010-11-18 04:06:10 <doublec> an android client that uses json-rpc to talk to a running server wouldn't be too hard
276 2010-11-18 04:06:47 <doublec> but would decrease uptake of the client since people have to have the hassle of running a server somewhere
277 2010-11-18 04:09:59 <jgarzik> market opening for a secure service...
278 2010-11-18 04:10:11 <davex__> right
279 2010-11-18 04:10:33 <doublec> you could use mybitcoin's api
280 2010-11-18 04:21:13 <davex__> are transaction fees happening yet? or does that not start until coin generation is over?
281 2010-11-18 04:23:17 <nanotube> davex__: you could always feel free to include a tx fee if you want. :)
282 2010-11-18 04:23:25 <nanotube> but the current required fee schedule is listed on the wiki
283 2010-11-18 04:23:57 <davex__> oh, ok. haven't seen the wiki page
284 2010-11-18 04:30:13 <ByteCoin> jgarzik: There are circumstances when it would make sense to run a full bitcoin client on a phone.
285 2010-11-18 04:30:25 <ByteCoin> You just wouldn't run it all the time.
286 2010-11-18 04:30:55 <ByteCoin> You'd only run it when redeeming a printed bitcoin note
287 2010-11-18 04:31:15 <ByteCoin> Or when you want to make a bitcoin payment to a merchant in return for over-the-counter goods
288 2010-11-18 04:31:29 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: sure. I'm mainly thinking about mass market. If we posit an app used by many thousands of Average Joe's, I wouldn't recommend requiring it to maintain a block chain and active P2P network connection
289 2010-11-18 04:31:49 <jgarzik> just need enough to send and receive transactions securely
290 2010-11-18 04:32:15 <jgarzik> it should be possible to do that in a decentralized and private manner
291 2010-11-18 04:32:39 <ByteCoin> I don't know whether you're familiar with my balance sheets idea but that was intended to minimize the amount of data a phone would have to download to "catch up"
292 2010-11-18 04:33:07 <ByteCoin> The problem with your idea is that it requires the phone owner to trust some server
293 2010-11-18 04:33:32 <ByteCoin> The great thing about bitcoin is that it's happy in an atmosphere of mutual suspicion!
294 2010-11-18 04:34:15 <ByteCoin> I too think that the block chain maintenance thing is unsuitable for phones.
295 2010-11-18 04:34:19 <jgarzik> sure, it's a tradeoff. trusting a server would present the lowest possible power and network footprint.
296 2010-11-18 04:34:26 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: having bitcoin run on a phone is probably not a so good idea as bitcoin uses quite a lot of cpu
297 2010-11-18 04:34:34 <MT`AwAy> (even without generating coins)
298 2010-11-18 04:34:39 <jgarzik> but it's possible to utilize sampling without trusting a server
299 2010-11-18 04:34:43 Diablo-D3 has joined
300 2010-11-18 04:35:03 <MT`AwAy> I can imagine running bitcoin on a phone would reduce the battery lifetime significantly
301 2010-11-18 04:35:11 <ByteCoin> It doesn't have to use lots of cpu. You'd only have it running to get your transaction out on the net.
302 2010-11-18 04:35:24 <jgarzik> connect to random P2P network nodes as non-generating leaf. easy to send TX's that way. then just receive blocks until your TX is confirmed.
303 2010-11-18 04:35:30 <jgarzik> disconnect.
304 2010-11-18 04:35:32 <ByteCoin> Once that's done then it just has to wait for it to confirm
305 2010-11-18 04:35:39 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: plus if you don't verify each transaction and keep a complete backlog (all blocks), you cannot make sure a transaction is valid or not
306 2010-11-18 04:36:13 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: not quite true... technically with the merkle tree you just need block headers for most blocks
307 2010-11-18 04:36:19 <ByteCoin> MT'AwAy: You need to read up on "balance sheets"
308 2010-11-18 04:36:45 <ByteCoin> You just need a list of unspent transactions and to keep it updated as they're spent
309 2010-11-18 04:37:10 <MT`AwAy> anyway, just generating a receiving address on a mobile phone is probably going to take a few seconds
310 2010-11-18 04:37:53 <ByteCoin> I haven't actually done it on a mobile phone but I can do millions a second on a pc. Can't be too much harder on a phone
311 2010-11-18 04:38:07 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: it takes ~1 sec on my PC
312 2010-11-18 04:38:11 <ByteCoin> Phone processors are quite meaty nowadays
313 2010-11-18 04:38:17 <MT`AwAy> (when I'm encoding video at the same time)
314 2010-11-18 04:38:37 <ByteCoin> I'll just say that the bitcoin implementation is not optimised
315 2010-11-18 04:39:41 <MT`AwAy> generating a bitcoin address is generating a private key, I don't know how many bits bitcoin addresses are made of, but usually private key generation is a cpu intensive operation
316 2010-11-18 04:40:23 <ByteCoin> All that is required for the private key is a 256 bit random number
317 2010-11-18 04:40:39 <MT`AwAy> so small?
318 2010-11-18 04:40:44 <ByteCoin> The public key calculation from the private key is time consuming.
319 2010-11-18 04:40:47 <ByteCoin> Not small.
320 2010-11-18 04:41:05 <ByteCoin> 256bits is considered very high security
321 2010-11-18 04:41:43 <ByteCoin> The best attacks are roughly comparable to the exhaustive search of half the number of bits
322 2010-11-18 04:42:57 <ByteCoin> jgarzik: What was that about sampling a server?
323 2010-11-18 04:43:14 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: sampling multiple P2P nodes
324 2010-11-18 04:44:10 <ByteCoin> If you're talking to multiple P2P nodes, how are you not really running a full client?
325 2010-11-18 04:45:09 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: a full client implies asking for new third party transactions as they appear, verifying them, passing them on to other nodes. Standard P2P network duties. A "lightweight" client would not need to perform such duties.
326 2010-11-18 04:45:45 <jgarzik> Sending a TX is simple: connect to any node, and offer TX. For bonus points, connect to multiple nodes and offer the TX.
327 2010-11-18 04:45:59 <MT`AwAy> oh, it uses EC keys
328 2010-11-18 04:46:16 <ByteCoin> Ok. I take your point. I guess a phone would want not to have to relay transactions. Ok
329 2010-11-18 04:46:21 <jgarzik> The only other requirement, then, is waiting for a TX confirmation. You can do that without being a full participant in P2P network, which involves sending and receiving: blocks, TX's, and addresses.
330 2010-11-18 04:46:27 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: correct
331 2010-11-18 04:46:49 <jgarzik> full client relays blocks, TX's and addresses galore. that's lots of network packets.
332 2010-11-18 04:47:09 <ByteCoin> By full client I meant getting the current block chain and then keeping abreast of new transactions without bothering to relay
333 2010-11-18 04:47:45 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: you'd only want to keep abreast of your own wallet's transactions, plus, new blocks as they are created.
334 2010-11-18 04:47:53 <ByteCoin> I should have made that clear.
335 2010-11-18 04:48:28 <ByteCoin> Yes jgarzik. You can see how that's very nearly a full client.
336 2010-11-18 04:48:35 <Kiba> http://www.lurkmore.com/w/images/6/62/Multi-Track_Drifting!.png
337 2010-11-18 04:48:37 <Kiba> ROFL
338 2010-11-18 04:49:34 <ByteCoin> jgarzik: You also need to know about all other transactions to make sure that someone paying you isn't double spending the coins.
339 2010-11-18 04:50:20 <ByteCoin> But I guess it's not essential as you have to wait until the transaction is in a block anyway
340 2010-11-18 04:50:26 <ByteCoin> Preferrably a few blocks down
341 2010-11-18 04:50:31 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: yeah, a block will tell you that
342 2010-11-18 04:51:05 <davex__> how is it determined how many transactions get in a block?
343 2010-11-18 04:51:24 <MT`AwAy> davex__: by the number of pending transaction when a block is generated
344 2010-11-18 04:51:27 <ByteCoin> Currently there are so few transactions they all get into the current block
345 2010-11-18 04:51:36 <MT`AwAy> (there's a size limit too)
346 2010-11-18 04:52:01 <MT`AwAy> (if the block is getting too big, transactions without fees are kept for later)
347 2010-11-18 04:52:18 <davex__> so if the network got busy enough, might not keep up with block generation? or is difficulty reduced?
348 2010-11-18 04:52:47 <ByteCoin> If it got busy enough, you'd have to incude fees.
349 2010-11-18 04:52:49 <davex__> (ie lots of transactions)
350 2010-11-18 04:52:51 <MT`AwAy> davex__: you'll have to pay fees
351 2010-11-18 04:53:42 <MT`AwAy> if you don't, your transaction will have to wait for load to be back to normal
352 2010-11-18 04:53:51 <ByteCoin> Note that if you make an unfeed transaction and then it gets very busy for a long time you would potentially have to wait until the flood stopped before you'd get it accepted.
353 2010-11-18 04:54:03 <MT`AwAy> btw if the network load gets higher, it'll be possible to make a new bitcoin version with bigger block limit
354 2010-11-18 04:54:09 <ByteCoin> In the meantime those coins are tied up
355 2010-11-18 04:54:29 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: usually a flood won't pay fees, so if you include a 0.01 fee you'll be handled in priority
356 2010-11-18 04:54:55 <ByteCoin> You only know you should have paid a fee after the flood starts!
357 2010-11-18 04:55:05 <MT`AwAy> then it's too bad for you :)
358 2010-11-18 04:55:16 <davex__> MT`AwAy, will existing clients assume the block has been solved, and try to solve the next?
359 2010-11-18 04:55:37 <ByteCoin> Not sure what you mean davex
360 2010-11-18 04:55:40 <MT`AwAy> davex__: I think they do until 4x the size or something
361 2010-11-18 04:55:42 <davex__> er, no... actually i'm confusd.
362 2010-11-18 04:55:57 <MT`AwAy> davex__: read the wiki :)
363 2010-11-18 04:56:07 <davex__> trying to see the implications for existing clients if the block size is increased in a new client
364 2010-11-18 04:57:11 <ByteCoin> I believe anything the miners inflict on the network is accepted without real questions. So if the miners increase the block size, I think it just gets bigger!
365 2010-11-18 04:57:38 <ByteCoin> If the miners don't change, nothing changes
366 2010-11-18 04:57:54 <jgarzik> network is essentially flood-fill, so more transactions and larger blocks means exponentially more byte-shoving :)
367 2010-11-18 04:58:25 <ByteCoin> Exponentially? Doubt it....
368 2010-11-18 04:59:06 <ByteCoin> Why wouldn't network traffic scale linearly with trasnactions
369 2010-11-18 05:15:37 <nanotube> because every tx is sent to every client
370 2010-11-18 05:16:21 <nanotube> guess that's still linear, only the factor is large (number of clients) ... :)
371 2010-11-18 05:17:53 FreeMoney has joined
372 2010-11-18 05:18:38 * jgarzik was making the assumption that increasing number of transaction/time implies increasing number of clients on the P2P network.
373 2010-11-18 05:20:16 <jgarzik> but in general, if bitcoin is popular, I don't think every phone should be processing paypal-levels of transactions.
374 2010-11-18 05:20:33 <nanotube> hehe yes, i thought of mentioning that possibility... but figured it was a side point. :)
375 2010-11-18 05:20:44 <nanotube> indeed. it wouldn't scale on phones.
376 2010-11-18 05:30:50 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
377 2010-11-18 05:32:14 <FreeMoney> wont phones have huge hard drives in like one year or something? Can't you get a terabyte SD card already?
378 2010-11-18 05:32:26 <xelister> tarabyte sd? wtf
379 2010-11-18 05:33:02 <xelister> well perhaps in few years... like 5
380 2010-11-18 05:33:05 <FreeMoney> okay, not yet apparently
381 2010-11-18 05:33:14 <FreeMoney> it must have been a dream...
382 2010-11-18 05:33:26 <jgarzik> FreeMoney: you IMO shouldn't need that, just to pay with bitcoins.
383 2010-11-18 05:33:49 <FreeMoney> right
384 2010-11-18 05:33:58 <FreeMoney> you communicate with a trusted party though?
385 2010-11-18 05:34:08 <FreeMoney> or you can pay independantly?
386 2010-11-18 05:34:25 <FreeMoney> oh, you can pay of course, right?
387 2010-11-18 05:35:16 <MT`AwAy> we could have an assisting server
388 2010-11-18 05:35:24 <MT`AwAy> without reducing the security
389 2010-11-18 05:35:46 <MT`AwAy> ie. the assisting server would be the one reading blocks, and providing the phone with its transactions, while the phone would only get block headers
390 2010-11-18 05:36:44 <MT`AwAy> as long as the server knows the phone's pub keys, it'll be fine
391 2010-11-18 05:36:55 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
392 2010-11-18 05:36:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92574 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 162 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6695.08134407
393 2010-11-18 05:37:02 <nanotube> bitbot replacement --^ :)
394 2010-11-18 05:37:22 <nanotube> thanks to theymos for providing the web feed of the data.
395 2010-11-18 05:37:48 <MT`AwAy> (and for example for iphones, the server could use apple's push protocol to provide notification once payment is confirmed)
396 2010-11-18 05:38:21 <FreeMoney> sounds very doable
397 2010-11-18 05:39:44 <MT`AwAy> server provides transaction content + hash + block number, phone client verifies in its block headers if the transaction hash is present
398 2010-11-18 05:40:11 <MT`AwAy> (we could have the server provide the per block transaction hash list too)
399 2010-11-18 05:41:31 <MT`AwAy> I can see no major difficulty to make this happen
400 2010-11-18 05:48:43 OneFixt_ has joined
401 2010-11-18 05:49:07 <OneFixt_> Is there a way to check whether you have blocks waiting for maturation when using bitcoind?
402 2010-11-18 05:56:07 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1822.0
403 2010-11-18 05:56:18 <jgarzik> "bitcoin mobile phone specification?"
404 2010-11-18 06:01:40 <OneFixt_> With m0m's client, what's the lowest that -f can be set to?
405 2010-11-18 06:05:32 <xelister> OneFixt_: -f 1 I think
406 2010-11-18 06:05:56 <xelister> it really doesnt matter 1 or 5 or 10 unless you run lots of video/games
407 2010-11-18 06:06:22 <xelister> OneFixt_: that is good question about checking if have waiting; if you find out then please /pm me
408 2010-11-18 06:06:41 <xelister> OneFixt_: the m0m's client print outs information when block is generated, on the console it stays
409 2010-11-18 06:12:04 <OneFixt_> xelister: Thanks, I'll try with 1.
410 2010-11-18 06:13:40 <OneFixt_> xelister: I just wanted to make sure that the block was actually accepted after the client printed it.
411 2010-11-18 06:26:09 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
412 2010-11-18 06:34:46 <ByteCoin> jgarzik: Just read your phone spec. I won't comment on it yet as I don't want to flood the forum with my opinion.
413 2010-11-18 06:35:00 <ByteCoin> I like what you've written though...
414 2010-11-18 06:35:13 <ByteCoin> I hope it gets a thorough consideration
415 2010-11-18 06:35:50 <ByteCoin> I might look at the amount of inevietable network traffic for various plausible use-cases.
416 2010-11-18 06:41:08 ne0futur has quit (Quit: leaving)
417 2010-11-18 06:46:50 Kiba has joined
418 2010-11-18 06:49:47 ne0futur has joined
419 2010-11-18 06:49:47 ne0futur has quit (Changing host)
420 2010-11-18 06:49:47 ne0futur has joined
421 2010-11-18 06:51:12 <Kiba> back
422 2010-11-18 06:51:16 <Kiba> cause I can't sleep
423 2010-11-18 06:54:51 <xelister> buy cheap pills for 99.99 BTC
424 2010-11-18 06:54:58 <xelister> it's not illegal or anything >_>
425 2010-11-18 06:55:20 <xelister> hey dea if you are tapping into this, I also killed JFK
426 2010-11-18 06:56:41 <xelister> what are main benefits though on using BC on gadges, so I face-to-face with seller/buyer? We loose anonimity and comfortable internet-transations
427 2010-11-18 06:56:57 <xelister> for ByteCoin's
428 2010-11-18 06:58:04 <Kiba> you can do cash transaction
429 2010-11-18 06:58:29 <xelister> jgarzik: for large scale I wonder if distribute-store systems wouldnt actually be interesting alternative like freenet or similar design
430 2010-11-18 06:58:53 <xelister> since FN works awesomly well if few people are downloading same stuff (list of all transations)
431 2010-11-18 06:59:12 <xelister> actually it gets FASTER as there is more traffic and as same data is downloaded/updated by everyone, not slower
432 2010-11-18 07:00:25 <Kiba> cash transaction, don't have to wait 5 days for shipping, etc
433 2010-11-18 07:00:38 <xelister> <xelister> jgarzik: for large scale I wonder if distribute-store systems wouldnt actually be interesting alternative like freenet or similar design since FN works awesomly well if few people are downloading same stuff (list of all transations) ;actually it gets FASTER as there is more traffic and as same data is downloaded/updated by everyone, not slower
434 2010-11-18 07:02:27 * xelister pasted by mistake
435 2010-11-18 07:02:50 <xelister> Kiba: ok, but there is already something really good for cash transactions. Cash! :)
436 2010-11-18 07:03:17 <xelister> unless you dont trust US$ as the value and find BTC more stable in the long run? then it could be advanrtage
437 2010-11-18 07:08:40 <Kiba> xelister: paypal sucks. everything sucks
438 2010-11-18 07:08:41 <Kiba> except cash
439 2010-11-18 07:08:45 <Kiba> cash and bitcoins exchange
440 2010-11-18 07:08:49 <Kiba> real g00d
441 2010-11-18 07:09:46 <jgarzik> xelister: there's something far better than freenet for that, bittorrent
442 2010-11-18 07:11:27 <xelister> jgarzik: excet FN is really anonymous while bittorent... we know ;)
443 2010-11-18 07:12:25 <xelister> none of systems is perect if someone really tries to "get you" but FN comes closest and is imho half year away from being totally anonymous even from powerfull attacker
444 2010-11-18 07:14:11 OneFixt_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
445 2010-11-18 07:18:14 <xelister> and for preformance, perhaps.. bittorent protocol with small modification (to quickly distribute linked updated of given file/site)
446 2010-11-18 07:26:02 * Kiba hacks away his web app
447 2010-11-18 07:26:51 * Kiba is stripping his web app's CSS style bare...
448 2010-11-18 07:33:32 <nathan7> :o
449 2010-11-18 07:36:56 <Kiba> but
450 2010-11-18 07:37:02 <Kiba> I am hamlizing it first
451 2010-11-18 07:41:44 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
452 2010-11-18 08:00:51 FreeMoney has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
453 2010-11-18 08:20:35 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
454 2010-11-18 08:44:27 wumpus has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
455 2010-11-18 08:44:54 wumpus has joined
456 2010-11-18 09:00:40 <joe_1> why do people put # sign in a lot of twitter posts
457 2010-11-18 09:10:34 altamic has joined
458 2010-11-18 09:16:42 <jpi> Where can I find Bitcoin version history?
459 2010-11-18 09:21:21 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
460 2010-11-18 09:24:28 <joe_1> jpi look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/
461 2010-11-18 09:25:50 MacRohard has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
462 2010-11-18 09:26:03 <jpi> joe_1: I mean documentation.
463 2010-11-18 09:29:16 <joe_1> I am not sure where the formal release notes documentation is located
464 2010-11-18 09:30:08 <joe_1> i will forward your request onto the forum.
465 2010-11-18 09:30:36 <joe_1> If you expand the bitcoin-0.1.x folders in the link i provided, then click the notepad to the right of each rar file, release notes are available for each of those versions. but this stops after the 0.1 series of releases
466 2010-11-18 09:30:42 <jpi> joe_1: Thanks. It would be great to have it online.
467 2010-11-18 09:32:35 <jpi> joe_1: One single file for release notes is what I am looking for.
468 2010-11-18 09:44:55 <joe_1> ok
469 2010-11-18 09:48:46 <joe_1> I have posted your request at http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1828.0 so hopefully in a couple days there will be an answer in that topic
470 2010-11-18 10:00:13 <jpi> joe_1: Thanks :)
471 2010-11-18 10:04:12 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
472 2010-11-18 10:15:12 davout has joined
473 2010-11-18 10:15:16 <davout> hi all
474 2010-11-18 10:15:43 <davout> i have an overclocking related question
475 2010-11-18 10:16:01 <davout> is it important to overclock memory frequency as long as gpu frequency ?
476 2010-11-18 10:16:19 <davout> i overclocked my radeon 5970 and got a nice speed increase,
477 2010-11-18 10:16:29 <davout> wondering if i should overclock memory too
478 2010-11-18 10:17:17 redengin has joined
479 2010-11-18 10:19:04 <dsg> davout: You'll see practically no difference.
480 2010-11-18 10:20:05 <davout> dsg: ok, thank you
481 2010-11-18 10:20:28 <davout> dsg: i'll give it a shot anyway but i heard nvram cooling on 5970's wasn't that great
482 2010-11-18 10:21:01 <davout> also, is temperature the limiting factor for GPU overclocking ?
483 2010-11-18 10:21:24 <davout> like, could i go further if i put my box in a colder room ? :)
484 2010-11-18 10:22:13 <Diablo-D3> not temp
485 2010-11-18 10:22:17 <Diablo-D3> not directly anyhow
486 2010-11-18 10:22:29 <Diablo-D3> OC requires voltage boosting once you get past a certain point
487 2010-11-18 10:22:38 <Diablo-D3> you'll just end up frying your voltage regulators
488 2010-11-18 10:24:47 tg has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
489 2010-11-18 10:25:22 tg has joined
490 2010-11-18 10:25:34 altamic has joined
491 2010-11-18 10:29:49 <davout> ok, so if i want to go further i need to boost voltage but doing that i risk frying the regulators
492 2010-11-18 10:30:19 <davout> if thats the case i think i'll stick with aticonfig for now =)
493 2010-11-18 10:30:28 <ArtForz> yup
494 2010-11-18 10:30:37 <ArtForz> VRMs on 5970 run hot as hell as is
495 2010-11-18 10:30:43 <davout> yea i read that
496 2010-11-18 10:31:09 <davout> artforz did you boost voltage a lot on your 5970's ?
497 2010-11-18 10:31:22 <ArtForz> 1.15V
498 2010-11-18 10:31:39 <davout> what's the original value ?
499 2010-11-18 10:31:43 <ArtForz> 1.05V
500 2010-11-18 10:31:50 <ArtForz> and without crazy airflow VRMs hit 120°C and the card throttles
501 2010-11-18 10:32:00 <davout> like freezes ?
502 2010-11-18 10:32:13 <ArtForz> no, throttles, to 550MHz core clock
503 2010-11-18 10:32:18 <davout> ooh
504 2010-11-18 10:32:24 <davout> sorry, english not first language
505 2010-11-18 10:32:37 <ArtForz> same here :P
506 2010-11-18 10:32:41 <davout> =)
507 2010-11-18 10:32:47 <davout> whats your first language ?
508 2010-11-18 10:32:49 <davout> mine fr
509 2010-11-18 10:32:56 <ArtForz> .de
510 2010-11-18 10:33:01 <davout> what speed do you run your gpus at ?
511 2010-11-18 10:33:08 <ArtForz> 910MHz core
512 2010-11-18 10:33:16 <davout> i have one that sustains 840, the other one 855
513 2010-11-18 10:33:43 <ArtForz> except for one core out of 12 5970s, that one wont go > 890 @ 1.15V
514 2010-11-18 10:34:06 <davout> ok, i'll try your voltage once i get a room with airconditioning
515 2010-11-18 10:34:32 <davout> i'm pretty luck, the it guy at my work will let me put my box in the server room, which is nicely cooled
516 2010-11-18 10:34:33 <jpi> How to use gpu in bitcoing?
517 2010-11-18 10:34:43 <davout> but he won't give me a network cable ><
518 2010-11-18 10:34:55 <davout> guess i'll have to crack some wep network
519 2010-11-18 10:35:07 <ArtForz> my cards sit with 2 slots spacing in between, with one of these for each pair of cards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054
520 2010-11-18 10:35:13 <davout> jpi: what's your graphic card ?
521 2010-11-18 10:35:30 <jpi> davout: Nvidia GeForce GTX 260
522 2010-11-18 10:35:57 <ArtForz> hmmm... GTX260 ...
523 2010-11-18 10:35:57 <davout> jpi: i'm unsure on how to get that kind of card working
524 2010-11-18 10:36:17 <davout> jpi: basically you'll wan't a patched bitcoin client that allows requests for gpu work
525 2010-11-18 10:36:56 <davout> you should check out the forums, but it seems like mining on nvidia isn't very efficient
526 2010-11-18 10:37:06 <jpi> ok
527 2010-11-18 10:37:32 <davout> for an ati card you need to compile a patched client
528 2010-11-18 10:37:37 <davout> compile the ati sdk
529 2010-11-18 10:38:09 <davout> get m0mchils client, and feed it the compiled ati lib, should be along these lines for nvidia too
530 2010-11-18 10:38:20 <ArtForz> yea, for nv I think you need nvidias openCL driver/sdk
531 2010-11-18 10:38:27 <jpi> Davout: Maybe I'll stay with normal client.
532 2010-11-18 10:38:44 <jpi> It is running with 2 of 4 cores anyway.
533 2010-11-18 10:39:18 <davout> you should be able to run it on all cores
534 2010-11-18 10:39:20 <ArtForz> GTX260 should get 35-40Mh/s @ 190W ... meh
535 2010-11-18 10:39:51 <jpi> davout: Cpu fan gets crazy.
536 2010-11-18 10:39:56 <jpi> with 4 cores
537 2010-11-18 10:40:24 <davout> i see
538 2010-11-18 10:40:40 <davout> i started mining two months ago on a hosted 8 core server
539 2010-11-18 10:40:52 <jpi> How long it takes to make my first coin with 2300 h/s?
540 2010-11-18 10:41:08 <jpi> kh/s
541 2010-11-18 10:41:09 <davout> 2 weeks ago, people from the datacenter opened a ticket about how they needed to check the servers cooling xD
542 2010-11-18 10:41:18 <ArtForz> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
543 2010-11-18 10:41:26 <davout> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
544 2010-11-18 10:41:59 <davout> it will give you oyur statistic likelihood of generating one after a certain amount of time
545 2010-11-18 10:42:03 <ArtForz> yep
546 2010-11-18 10:42:15 <ArtForz> avg = average time to find a block
547 2010-11-18 10:42:21 <jpi> davout: ok :) I need more cpu's.
548 2010-11-18 10:42:23 <davout> however, every generated hash is statistically independent
549 2010-11-18 10:42:26 <davout> cpu's suck
550 2010-11-18 10:42:34 <ArtForz> 50% = time span after which you have a 50% chance of having found 1+ blocks
551 2010-11-18 10:42:51 <ArtForz> 95% time ... same thing with a 95% chance
552 2010-11-18 10:42:59 <davout> if you're miraculously lucky you could generate a block for each hash
553 2010-11-18 10:43:12 <davout> i love the parallel universe theory
554 2010-11-18 10:43:18 <ArtForz> yeah
555 2010-11-18 10:43:20 <jpi> Davout: In that case I should start playing lotto.
556 2010-11-18 10:43:35 <ArtForz> and in another parallel universe you'll never find a single hash :P
557 2010-11-18 10:43:36 <davout> maybe in one of these universes every of my hashes gets me a block XD
558 2010-11-18 10:43:49 <ArtForz> and it's nearly equally unlikely
559 2010-11-18 10:44:20 <davout> never generating a block is impossible if you mine for an infintely long amount of time
560 2010-11-18 10:44:28 <davout> maybe i should drop gpu mining
561 2010-11-18 10:44:42 <ArtForz> yes
562 2010-11-18 10:44:48 <davout> and adopt an infinity of monkeys
563 2010-11-18 10:44:57 <ArtForz> infinities are funny
564 2010-11-18 10:45:44 <ArtForz> btw, 99.99% time is roughly triple 95% time
565 2010-11-18 10:46:20 <jpi> ArtForz: 0,999... = 1
566 2010-11-18 10:46:24 <ArtForz> no
567 2010-11-18 10:46:27 <ArtForz> well, yes
568 2010-11-18 10:46:35 <davout> actually yes
569 2010-11-18 10:46:35 <ArtForz> but I mean 99.99%
570 2010-11-18 10:46:48 <davout> i got my share of fun trolling 4chan with this statement
571 2010-11-18 10:47:06 <ArtForz> actually 3x 95% time = 99.9875% time
572 2010-11-18 10:47:36 <ArtForz> so if you dont find a block in that time you're the unlucky 1 in 8000 ;)
573 2010-11-18 10:48:17 <ArtForz> estnextdiff 6787, 94 blocks to go
574 2010-11-18 10:49:03 <ArtForz> so... yet another x1.5 difficulty increase
575 2010-11-18 10:52:54 <davout> yay :(
576 2010-11-18 10:53:47 <davout> maybe i'll modify my client to start charging tx fees
577 2010-11-18 10:54:04 <davout> because i'm a greedy bastard
578 2010-11-18 10:54:21 <davout> default txns don't accept tx fees do they ?
579 2010-11-18 10:58:01 <joe_1> what is a default txn
580 2010-11-18 11:03:15 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
581 2010-11-18 11:08:12 MacRohard has joined
582 2010-11-18 11:14:44 <davout> i mean a transaction broadcast by the default mainstream client
583 2010-11-18 11:15:19 <davout> like if i wanted to charge tx fees, would i simplu end up with no transaction whatsoever included in my blocks ?
584 2010-11-18 11:15:33 <ArtForz> pretty much
585 2010-11-18 11:15:41 <davout> heh
586 2010-11-18 11:16:23 <davout> yay, another hash found
587 2010-11-18 11:16:29 <davout> encore une victoire pour canard
588 2010-11-18 11:21:04 * davout quacks proudly
589 2010-11-18 11:27:05 <bd_> davout: The way txn fees are implemented is by having a transaction consume more coins than it creates - the block creator is then allowed (indeed, required) to claim these coins
590 2010-11-18 11:27:49 <bd_> If the txn creator balanced the consumed and created coins, all you can do is reject the txn if you don't want to process it
591 2010-11-18 11:27:52 <ArtForz> I'm not 100% sure if its required
592 2010-11-18 11:28:39 <bd_> pretty sure it's an equality check
593 2010-11-18 11:29:02 <davout> ok, that makes sens
594 2010-11-18 11:29:05 <davout> *sense
595 2010-11-18 11:29:57 <davout> guess we'll see it come around during the next few months when greedy people like me actually get their asses moving and fire emacs up
596 2010-11-18 11:30:11 <davout> j/k i use notepad XD
597 2010-11-18 11:30:20 <bd_> ah, no, it's not equality
598 2010-11-18 11:30:39 <bd_> So I suppose you could disclaim the txn fees, but that just means the coins spent on the fees will be lost
599 2010-11-18 11:30:48 <bd_> cf CBlock::ConnectBlock
600 2010-11-18 11:31:50 <ArtForz> yep
601 2010-11-18 11:32:39 <ArtForz> looks like you could even create a block with 0-valued coinbase
602 2010-11-18 11:34:51 <ArtForz> completely pointless but possible
603 2010-11-18 11:37:43 <joe_1> i think there will be transaction fee reform sometime between now and when the block payoff goes away
604 2010-11-18 11:37:58 <joe_1> which is in 2011 or 2012 or 13, i forgot which year
605 2010-11-18 11:38:04 <ArtForz> err.. huh?
606 2010-11-18 11:38:18 <ArtForz> block payoff halves every 210000 blocks
607 2010-11-18 11:38:19 <joe_1> well, in 2013, people won't get paid to make blocks, so nobody will mine anymore.
608 2010-11-18 11:38:50 <joe_1> are you sure it's 210,000?
609 2010-11-18 11:39:23 <ArtForz> // Subsidy is cut in half every 4 years
610 2010-11-18 11:39:23 <ArtForz> nSubsidy >>= (nHeight / 210000);
611 2010-11-18 11:39:34 <joe_1> ok that does make sense
612 2010-11-18 11:40:02 <ArtForz> so at block 210000 generation will drop from 50 to 25 per block
613 2010-11-18 11:40:26 <ArtForz> at block 420000 12.5, at 630000 6.25, ...
614 2010-11-18 11:41:27 * Diablo-D3 sighs
615 2010-11-18 11:41:32 <Diablo-D3> Im wondering if my miner works
616 2010-11-18 11:41:36 <Diablo-D3> I still havent generated a block with it
617 2010-11-18 11:41:47 <ArtForz> we have ~117k blocks to go to first halving -> about 800 days
618 2010-11-18 11:42:01 <joe_1> wow, i guess we have a long ways away until the payoff becomes negligible
619 2010-11-18 11:42:08 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: check on -testnet ?
620 2010-11-18 11:42:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: cant
621 2010-11-18 11:42:20 <ArtForz> huh?
622 2010-11-18 11:42:22 <ArtForz> why?
623 2010-11-18 11:42:31 <Diablo-D3> testnet's difficulty isnt above one
624 2010-11-18 11:42:35 <ArtForz> it is
625 2010-11-18 11:42:43 <Diablo-D3> when did that change?
626 2010-11-18 11:42:53 <ArtForz> a few days ago
627 2010-11-18 11:43:12 <ArtForz> I had one of my 5770s generate on testnet for a bit
628 2010-11-18 11:43:21 <joe_1> But, when the subsidy becomes negligible, people will stop mining.
629 2010-11-18 11:43:21 <Diablo-D3> how do I use testnet?
630 2010-11-18 11:43:32 <ArtForz> run client with -testnet ?
631 2010-11-18 11:43:43 <joe_1> That is why i predict transaction fee reform will occur before the subsidy gets low
632 2010-11-18 11:43:46 <ArtForz> current target on testnet is 0x0000000030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
633 2010-11-18 11:44:17 <altamic> hey davout
634 2010-11-18 11:44:43 <Diablo-D3> how many testnet blocks are there?
635 2010-11-18 11:45:02 <ArtForz> http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/testnet/bbe/
636 2010-11-18 11:45:09 <ArtForz> 16719
637 2010-11-18 11:45:39 <ArtForz> so current difficulty on testnet is main difficulty equivalent of 5.33
638 2010-11-18 11:46:35 <ArtForz> -testnet uses a default datadir of ~/.bitcoin/testnet/
639 2010-11-18 11:48:49 <Diablo-D3> hmm when was -testnet added?
640 2010-11-18 11:49:35 <ArtForz> .14 ?
641 2010-11-18 11:49:41 * Diablo-D3 sadly updates
642 2010-11-18 11:50:03 <joe_1> and as i think about it more, what will probably end up happening after 21 million coins is that generators will start breaking the rules by creating new coins. it will be up to the majority of CPU power to agree to it, which they will.
643 2010-11-18 11:50:22 <ArtForz> wrong
644 2010-11-18 11:50:53 <ArtForz> just because you have majority of CPU power doesnt mean you can change the rules
645 2010-11-18 11:51:12 <joe_1> no, im not talking about an attacker having majority of CPU power
646 2010-11-18 11:51:15 <ArtForz> yes
647 2010-11-18 11:51:21 <joe_1> i'm talking about, everyone will understand it needs to be done.
648 2010-11-18 11:51:26 <ArtForz> still doesnt allow him to change the rules
649 2010-11-18 11:51:29 <joe_1> why? because there needs to be an incentive to generate
650 2010-11-18 11:51:40 <ArtForz> TX fees
651 2010-11-18 11:52:28 <joe_1> I think TX fees are not a good solution, because large trusted banks will simply hold coins and not make any transactions, or make very few transactions.
652 2010-11-18 11:52:28 <ArtForz> my guess what'll probably happen is that in the far future TX fees will go from per-kB to fixed % + minimum amount + per-kb
653 2010-11-18 11:53:43 <LobsterMan> i've been running m0mchil's miner for a while now @ 100mhash between my 2 cards...i last generated a block about a week ago and haven't had one since (running the miners almost 24/7 with a few interruptions here and there)........is it possible that m0mchil is just stealing peoples' cpu cycles and sending the coins to himself.....or am i just being paranoid and am simply unlucky?
654 2010-11-18 11:54:06 <ArtForz> most likely the latter
655 2010-11-18 11:54:24 <joe_1> artforz, have you seen a decrease in output?
656 2010-11-18 11:54:33 <ArtForz> hmm?
657 2010-11-18 11:54:44 <joe_1> have you seen a decrease in your own coin generation?
658 2010-11-18 11:54:52 <ArtForz> yup
659 2010-11-18 11:54:54 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: you do realize m0's miner is open source right?
660 2010-11-18 11:54:58 <LobsterMan> yes
661 2010-11-18 11:55:09 <Diablo-D3> do you see anything in the source that allows this?
662 2010-11-18 11:55:11 <LobsterMan> i know it's not likely he's doing anything dubious
663 2010-11-18 11:55:12 <Diablo-D3> hint: no you dont
664 2010-11-18 11:55:15 <LobsterMan> :P
665 2010-11-18 11:55:38 <LobsterMan> i think a lot more people are starting to use gpu miners too, can that affect one's likliness of generating a block even if the difficulty hasnt yet gone up?
666 2010-11-18 11:55:44 <ArtForz> nope
667 2010-11-18 11:55:48 <ArtForz> but my hashrate went to hell when the TX floods started
668 2010-11-18 11:55:57 <joe_1> the tx floods?
669 2010-11-18 11:56:04 <ArtForz> yep
670 2010-11-18 11:56:07 <joe_1> just rewrite your miner. don't roll transactions into your blocks. it's legal
671 2010-11-18 11:56:07 <LobsterMan> i think some people are trying to dos the network
672 2010-11-18 11:56:22 <ArtForz> thats the fucking dumbest "fix" I heard
673 2010-11-18 11:56:27 <LobsterMan> haha
674 2010-11-18 11:56:42 <joe_1> why
675 2010-11-18 11:57:23 <ArtForz> "yeah, let's just all not include any transactions in our blocks"
676 2010-11-18 11:57:36 <ArtForz> guess what happens when 80+% of the network do that?
677 2010-11-18 11:57:52 <joe_1> we just have to wait for about 5 blocks to see a confirmation. no big deal
678 2010-11-18 11:58:08 <joe_1> if satoshi needs to change the code then change your miner back when that happens.
679 2010-11-18 11:58:19 <ArtForz> or maybe just fix your damn inefficient code
680 2010-11-18 11:58:29 <Diablo-D3> 1/4th done adding blocks
681 2010-11-18 11:58:40 <ArtForz> my miner now handles high Tx rates without even blinking
682 2010-11-18 11:58:50 <joe_1> so your hashrate is back up?
683 2010-11-18 11:59:02 <ArtForz> and btw, the flood stopped a few days ago
684 2010-11-18 11:59:18 <LobsterMan> is your coin generation rate still down?
685 2010-11-18 11:59:22 <ArtForz> nope
686 2010-11-18 11:59:36 <ArtForz> well, the usual random fluctuations
687 2010-11-18 11:59:59 <joe_1> require fees. that'll get rid of the flood transactions
688 2010-11-18 12:01:16 <joe_1> in fact a while ago i was seeing fast blocks and one of my transactions was sticking at 0/unconfirmed
689 2010-11-18 12:01:25 <joe_1> somebody was probably mining without including transactions
690 2010-11-18 12:04:05 <Diablo-D3> 1/2 done
691 2010-11-18 12:05:35 <ArtForz> my miner now includes new transactions once every 60 seconds max, shared between all miner threads
692 2010-11-18 12:05:39 <bd_> joe_1: anyone can require fees, they just need to start announcing that people can get their stuff processed faster with a small bribe :)
693 2010-11-18 12:06:28 <LobsterMan> now that you mention it..my hashrate seems slightly lower than what it was.....down like 2-4%
694 2010-11-18 12:06:56 <LobsterMan> down 1-2mhash per card...
695 2010-11-18 12:07:07 <Diablo-D3> ohreally?
696 2010-11-18 12:07:11 <LobsterMan> hmm
697 2010-11-18 12:07:14 <ArtForz> hrrrm... did you update to 10.10?
698 2010-11-18 12:07:23 <Diablo-D3> 10.10 really knocks the shit out of my card
699 2010-11-18 12:07:29 <LobsterMan> 10.10?
700 2010-11-18 12:07:33 <Diablo-D3> I went from ~70 down to like ~64
701 2010-11-18 12:08:19 <Diablo-D3> also, Aeyka's laugh scares me
702 2010-11-18 12:20:18 <LobsterMan> hm thinking about it
703 2010-11-18 12:20:35 <LobsterMan> it seems like my hashrate drop coincides with mu upgrade to 0.3.15
704 2010-11-18 12:20:50 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: you dont even know what version of cat you use?
705 2010-11-18 12:21:03 <LobsterMan> cat?
706 2010-11-18 12:21:03 <LobsterMan> lol
707 2010-11-18 12:21:10 <ArtForz> 0.3.15 is slightly buggy
708 2010-11-18 12:21:23 <ArtForz> the miner tx prioritisation code is slow as fuck
709 2010-11-18 12:21:36 <LobsterMan> ArtForz that is kind of the impression i get....my hashrates were shit when m0mchil's miner was based on svn...179 i think
710 2010-11-18 12:22:01 <LobsterMan> they are much closer to what they were prior to the release of .15, but not quite there
711 2010-11-18 12:22:02 <ArtForz> well, m0s was even worse, it reruns that code on EVERY call to getwork
712 2010-11-18 12:22:13 <ArtForz> I think he fixed that recently
713 2010-11-18 12:22:16 <LobsterMan> yeah
714 2010-11-18 12:22:18 <Diablo-D3> what code?
715 2010-11-18 12:22:28 <ArtForz> the "select TX for block" thing
716 2010-11-18 12:22:36 <Diablo-D3> who cares when its every x seconds
717 2010-11-18 12:22:52 <ArtForz> with a few 100 transactions it takes several seconds
718 2010-11-18 12:23:00 <Diablo-D3> blergh
719 2010-11-18 12:23:05 <ArtForz> now imagine you hjave 4 miners connected, each one calling that veery 5 seconds
720 2010-11-18 12:23:11 <ArtForz> oh, and it holds a golbal lock
721 2010-11-18 12:23:15 <ArtForz> *global
722 2010-11-18 12:23:19 <Diablo-D3> I should up my time then
723 2010-11-18 12:28:31 <joe_1> no need to call getwork all the time. only need to call it after a block is generated by you or someone else.
724 2010-11-18 12:29:04 <ArtForz> joe_1: if you have no clue, STFU
725 2010-11-18 12:30:20 <joe_1> you shut the fuck up
726 2010-11-18 12:30:26 <Diablo-D3> both of you shut the fuck up
727 2010-11-18 12:31:17 <ArtForz> *plonk*
728 2010-11-18 12:31:46 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: you need to periodically call new work otherwise you're hashing on a block header that isn't valid anymore
729 2010-11-18 12:32:07 tcatm has joined
730 2010-11-18 12:33:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so with a difficulty of 10.6, at around 64 mhash, how often should I gen a new block?
731 2010-11-18 12:34:00 <joe_1> is it keyed off time? what makes the header change?
732 2010-11-18 12:34:16 <ArtForz> sec
733 2010-11-18 12:34:19 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: the block chain lengthens, new tx are added, etc
734 2010-11-18 12:35:08 <ArtForz> avg should be 6 min
735 2010-11-18 12:35:51 <joe_1> but let's say i call getwork right after a block was generated. it won't have any transactions in it. then some transactions are announced to me which i ignore because i dont call getwork again. even when i find the solution and submit the block, other nodes will accept it (by my understanding) as long as it doesn't include any FALSE transactions. is this not correct?
736 2010-11-18 12:37:16 <ArtForz> oh, and testnet diff is 5.33
737 2010-11-18 12:37:54 <Diablo-D3> "difficulty" : 10.66658529,
738 2010-11-18 12:38:07 <ArtForz> yes, because testnet uses a different starting value for difficulty
739 2010-11-18 12:38:17 <Diablo-D3> so what, its half?
740 2010-11-18 12:38:33 <ArtForz> btw, sounds like youre still not up to date on the chain
741 2010-11-18 12:38:44 <ArtForz> current test diff is ~ 42.7
742 2010-11-18 12:38:48 <Diablo-D3> "blocks" : 16719,
743 2010-11-18 12:38:53 <ArtForz> weird
744 2010-11-18 12:39:29 <ArtForz> testnet 1.0 diff = 1/8 main 1.0 diff
745 2010-11-18 12:40:09 <ArtForz> bbe says main equiv diff = 5.333...
746 2010-11-18 12:40:19 <ArtForz> http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/testnet/bbe/block/000000000c9f0f8073c7f2f6cda269789d2158ddedad6db1883f313eb2121916
747 2010-11-18 12:40:58 <ArtForz> my code says the same thing
748 2010-11-18 12:41:25 <ArtForz> testnet diff 42.7 = main diff 5.33
749 2010-11-18 12:41:34 <Diablo-D3> "target" : "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003000000000",
750 2010-11-18 12:42:03 <ArtForz> looks right
751 2010-11-18 12:42:23 <Diablo-D3> maybe bitcoind is just displaying it wrong
752 2010-11-18 12:42:44 <Diablo-D3> so at 5.33, how long does it take me at ~64 mhash?
753 2010-11-18 12:42:50 <ArtForz> 6 minutes avg
754 2010-11-18 12:42:58 <Diablo-D3> bleh
755 2010-11-18 12:43:04 <ArtForz> 359.something seconds avg
756 2010-11-18 12:43:30 <ArtForz> yeah
757 2010-11-18 12:43:41 <ArtForz> looks like getinfo for testnet displays wring difficulty
758 2010-11-18 12:43:58 <Diablo-D3> I should have genned a block by now
759 2010-11-18 12:44:25 <ArtForz> well, I'd wait half an hour or so, if theres still no block your miner doesnt work
760 2010-11-18 12:45:04 <Diablo-D3> why did it work with the local-only client then?
761 2010-11-18 12:45:11 <ArtForz> yea, weird
762 2010-11-18 12:45:15 <ArtForz> did you change something?
763 2010-11-18 12:45:27 <Diablo-D3> nope
764 2010-11-18 12:45:37 <ArtForz> *really* weird then
765 2010-11-18 12:46:15 <joe_1> is your mining code not generating anything, or your generating stuff and bitcoin client is not accepting it
766 2010-11-18 12:47:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ahaaa! it found one
767 2010-11-18 12:47:45 <ArtForz> see, testnet *is* useful
768 2010-11-18 12:47:52 <Diablo-D3> Started at Nov 18, 2010 7:26:04 AM
769 2010-11-18 12:47:52 <Diablo-D3> Block 1 found on ATI RV770 at 7:39:49 AM
770 2010-11-18 12:48:22 <ArtForz> I don't see it
771 2010-11-18 12:48:42 <ArtForz> block count here is still 16719
772 2010-11-18 12:50:39 <Diablo-D3> hrm
773 2010-11-18 12:51:11 <joe_1> maby your on the main network
774 2010-11-18 12:51:34 <Diablo-D3> "testnet" : true,
775 2010-11-18 12:51:43 <ArtForz> yep
776 2010-11-18 12:52:06 <joe_1> well it was wishful thinking
777 2010-11-18 12:52:18 <joe_1> then again i think art is the only person who can churn out main network blocks on short order
778 2010-11-18 12:53:27 * Diablo-D3 makes a small change to the miner
779 2010-11-18 12:59:20 <joe_1> artforz when bitcoin reaches 10,000 and we are all rich we will look back at these little irc fights and laugh
780 2010-11-18 13:05:00 <dsg> joe_1: Pretty sure he has you on ignore, judging by the plonk sound above.
781 2010-11-18 13:05:50 <joe_1> wow
782 2010-11-18 13:07:03 <joe_1> he's mad because i pointed out a way for him to speed up his mining algorithm
783 2010-11-18 13:09:44 <dsg> If more people think like joe_1, we may need to add some way to reject blocks from those that refuse to accept transactions into their blocks. After all, mining without adding transactions is useless for the network.
784 2010-11-18 13:10:36 <tcatm> if too many are mining without including transactions they can't spend their own coins
785 2010-11-18 13:11:19 <dsg> True, but it would be bad if there were a significant ratio of freeloading miners
786 2010-11-18 13:11:27 <dsg> That just depend on others for their own transactions
787 2010-11-18 13:11:48 <dsg> Would mean we have to wait longer for confirmations
788 2010-11-18 13:13:19 <davout> mining without including transactions will eventually become pointless
789 2010-11-18 13:13:33 <davout> and counter productive when you could be accepting transaction fees
790 2010-11-18 13:16:40 <tcatm> it's not even a problem now and there's no point in not including transactions
791 2010-11-18 13:17:27 <davout> maybe speed up your client
792 2010-11-18 13:17:36 <davout> miner*
793 2010-11-18 13:19:41 <davout> 64 blocks to go before end of world
794 2010-11-18 13:19:51 <ArtForz> properly implemented including blocks is a very very small hit
795 2010-11-18 13:20:14 <ArtForz> err.. including TX
796 2010-11-18 13:21:25 <ArtForz> hint: you can share the same TX list between all miners
797 2010-11-18 13:22:40 <tcatm> or at least collect TX while the GPU is working
798 2010-11-18 13:23:28 <ArtForz> I actually have the tx-for-block updating running in it's own thread
799 2010-11-18 13:24:00 <tcatm> can you share that code?
800 2010-11-18 13:24:08 <ArtForz> nope
801 2010-11-18 13:24:53 <ArtForz> hrrm, actually modifying getwork to work like that shouldnt be too hard
802 2010-11-18 13:28:14 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
803 2010-11-18 14:04:29 <anarchyx> i wont rest before i mined 1 mil bitcoins :P
804 2010-11-18 14:05:40 <yebyen> anarchyx: have you got 50?
805 2010-11-18 14:06:00 <yebyen> send them here!
806 2010-11-18 14:06:09 <yebyen> 1B4VroMYakxNs9ZCvfTWY9nL9oTD5V3vHV
807 2010-11-18 14:18:06 <ArtForz> current getwork should be pretty much fine
808 2010-11-18 14:20:33 <ArtForz> just dont use r181 as a base, use r183 (r181 logfile reopen has a race condition)
809 2010-11-18 14:28:41 doublec has quit (Changing host)
810 2010-11-18 14:28:41 doublec has joined
811 2010-11-18 14:33:27 mtgox has joined
812 2010-11-18 14:34:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ahaaaa
813 2010-11-18 14:34:37 <Diablo-D3> so it did work
814 2010-11-18 14:35:20 <Diablo-D3> ui client says 2/unconfirmed
815 2010-11-18 14:36:59 <ArtForz> cool
816 2010-11-18 14:37:45 tcatm has quit (Quit: quit)
817 2010-11-18 14:38:38 jpi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
818 2010-11-18 14:39:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so my client works after all.... my 4850 is just too slow to compete anymore
819 2010-11-18 14:39:34 sirius-m has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
820 2010-11-18 14:39:57 <ArtForz> soudns like it
821 2010-11-18 14:40:30 mats has joined
822 2010-11-18 14:41:17 mats has quit (Client Quit)
823 2010-11-18 14:42:31 <Diablo-D3> so I have $116.19 to put towards a new card
824 2010-11-18 14:44:16 <ArtForz> thats... not much
825 2010-11-18 14:44:33 <Diablo-D3> nope. its not.
826 2010-11-18 14:44:40 <Diablo-D3> doesnt even buy me a 6850.
827 2010-11-18 14:46:46 dwdollar has left ()
828 2010-11-18 14:49:14 <ArtForz> hell, thats barely a 5770
829 2010-11-18 14:49:40 hippich_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
830 2010-11-18 14:50:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I cant go drop $9000 on new gear like you can
831 2010-11-18 14:51:05 <ArtForz> more like $15000
832 2010-11-18 14:53:31 <Diablo-D3> sorry, I meant OVER $9000
833 2010-11-18 14:55:25 m0mchil has joined
834 2010-11-18 14:55:34 <ArtForz> hey m0
835 2010-11-18 14:55:37 <m0mchil> hi
836 2010-11-18 14:56:01 <ArtForz> did you do your latest getwork patched build based on r181 ?
837 2010-11-18 14:56:08 <m0mchil> any clues about the duplicated generation transaction?
838 2010-11-18 14:56:09 <m0mchil> yes
839 2010-11-18 14:56:20 <ArtForz> r181 has a race condition in the debug log reopen code
840 2010-11-18 14:56:39 <m0mchil> is there a fix yet?
841 2010-11-18 14:56:48 <ArtForz> yes, r182 instead has a possible deadlock, r183 finally should be ok
842 2010-11-18 14:57:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: are you SURE 6 minutes?
843 2010-11-18 14:57:21 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: errr... yes
844 2010-11-18 14:57:36 <m0mchil> i'll upgrade... did you saw the issue at http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1814.0
845 2010-11-18 14:57:41 <ArtForz> yes
846 2010-11-18 14:57:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hrrrrrrrm
847 2010-11-18 14:57:49 <ArtForz> I've taken a look at getwork, doesnt look like it could cause something like that
848 2010-11-18 14:58:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: started at 9:28, its now 9:50, no new blocks
849 2010-11-18 14:58:16 <m0mchil> yes, I am unable to see it too
850 2010-11-18 14:58:23 <ArtForz> my best guess is yet another custom miner, with a bug
851 2010-11-18 14:59:25 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: that doesnt sound good
852 2010-11-18 15:02:34 <ArtForz> m0mchil: I like your approach of sharing a single block between all miners
853 2010-11-18 15:03:30 <m0mchil> there's no reason to use more than one key
854 2010-11-18 15:03:44 <ArtForz> yep
855 2010-11-18 15:03:45 <m0mchil> such a valuable resource :)
856 2010-11-18 15:04:09 <ArtForz> well, thatnks to keypool they're recycled ;)
857 2010-11-18 15:11:38 redMBA has joined
858 2010-11-18 15:21:52 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
859 2010-11-18 15:22:29 Maccer has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
860 2010-11-18 15:24:15 50UAAAGW3 has joined
861 2010-11-18 15:24:46 Kiba has joined
862 2010-11-18 15:25:11 50UAAAGW3 is now known as dwdollar1
863 2010-11-18 15:34:53 <Diablo-D3> [09:55:08] <ArtForz> m0mchil: I like your approach of sharing a single block between all miners
864 2010-11-18 15:34:57 <Diablo-D3> orly?
865 2010-11-18 15:37:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but yeah, I think there may be still a bug in the miner
866 2010-11-18 15:43:18 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
867 2010-11-18 15:43:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92699 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 37 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6822.90591105
868 2010-11-18 15:44:42 <Diablo-D3> okay it hit another
869 2010-11-18 15:46:28 <Kiba> naysayers, everywhere!
870 2010-11-18 15:46:42 <Kiba> A waste of electricity!
871 2010-11-18 15:48:25 * Kiba is beginning to dislike naysayers
872 2010-11-18 15:48:54 <Kiba> must be getting emotionally attached to the success of bitcoins
873 2010-11-18 15:52:18 <Teppy> nanotube: You around? Got a really fun theme for the monster-lair game.
874 2010-11-18 16:01:42 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: if I check for H == 0 only, thats difficulty 1, right?
875 2010-11-18 16:05:11 <ArtForz> yep
876 2010-11-18 16:05:30 <Diablo-D3> and at, say, 60 mhash, how often should a block be hit?
877 2010-11-18 16:05:40 <ArtForz> you mean a diff 1 hit?
878 2010-11-18 16:05:51 <Diablo-D3> yeah
879 2010-11-18 16:05:53 astaroth has joined
880 2010-11-18 16:06:11 <ArtForz> every 2**32/60000000 seconds ... 71.6 sec
881 2010-11-18 16:06:25 <Diablo-D3> then the miner part works fine
882 2010-11-18 16:06:27 xelister has joined
883 2010-11-18 16:06:36 <Diablo-D3> I take out the G test, and it spits one out roughly once a minute
884 2010-11-18 16:08:55 <ArtForz> sounds ok
885 2010-11-18 16:19:45 <OneFixt> ;;smooth
886 2010-11-18 16:19:46 <gribble> Error: "smooth" is not a valid command.
887 2010-11-18 16:19:49 <OneFixt> err
888 2010-11-18 16:19:50 <OneFixt> ;;estimate
889 2010-11-18 16:19:51 <gribble> Error: "estimate" is not a valid command.
890 2010-11-18 16:20:05 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
891 2010-11-18 16:20:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92709 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 27 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6832.31475938
892 2010-11-18 16:32:25 hippich_ has joined
893 2010-11-18 16:36:13 <nanotube> Teppy: yo :)
894 2010-11-18 16:36:23 <Teppy> Hey
895 2010-11-18 16:36:52 <Teppy> So this will be done late tomorrow, but we're going to theme it like this:
896 2010-11-18 16:37:03 <Teppy> Four (or six, or eight) pigs...
897 2010-11-18 16:37:30 <Teppy> You have different kinds of foods that you can buy, and you throw the food to the pigs. Each pig has preferences for food.
898 2010-11-18 16:38:20 <Teppy> So if you throw a bag of peanuts, then the Mountain Boar pig will gain 10 pounds, and the River Pig will gain 5 pounds.
899 2010-11-18 16:38:26 <nanotube> heh cute. :)
900 2010-11-18 16:38:41 <Teppy> The pigs get visibly bigger, and they snort and grunt and so on...
901 2010-11-18 16:38:59 <Teppy> When one gets fat enough, it stands up, clutches it's chest, and collapses of a heart attack.
902 2010-11-18 16:39:05 <Diablo-D3> bacon.
903 2010-11-18 16:39:10 <Teppy> They you get it's bitcoins.
904 2010-11-18 16:39:19 <Diablo-D3> dude, I dont want bitcoins
905 2010-11-18 16:39:21 <Diablo-D3> I want bacon
906 2010-11-18 16:39:21 <nanotube> haha nice
907 2010-11-18 16:39:28 <Diablo-D3> BACOOOOON
908 2010-11-18 16:39:47 <Teppy> I will make a little plate of bacon for Diablo-D3 :)
909 2010-11-18 16:40:03 <nanotube> hehe
910 2010-11-18 16:40:36 <Teppy> Diablo-D3: There's already Camel Hump in the game as food. That's pretty fatty :P
911 2010-11-18 16:40:41 FreeMoney has joined
912 2010-11-18 16:40:50 <Diablo-D3> "They killed the entire cast of Tenchi Muyo!" "You bastards!"
913 2010-11-18 16:49:30 <nanotube> how exactly does the difficulty level translate into the hash target?
914 2010-11-18 16:50:14 <ArtForz> diffculty is calculated from hash target
915 2010-11-18 16:50:50 <nanotube> how, exactly, is the question :)
916 2010-11-18 16:51:02 <nanotube> what's the mathematical relationship
917 2010-11-18 16:51:04 <ArtForz> base target is 0x00000000FFFF00000000000000...
918 2010-11-18 16:51:14 <ArtForz> difficulty is base target / current target
919 2010-11-18 16:51:52 <ArtForz> base target is "close enough" to 2**224 - 1
920 2010-11-18 16:52:22 <nanotube> ah ok
921 2010-11-18 16:52:35 <nanotube> heh ok
922 2010-11-18 16:53:15 <ArtForz> (2**224-1) / 0x00000000000E7256000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (current target) = ~ 4536.42
923 2010-11-18 16:54:01 <ArtForz> that sounds off
924 2010-11-18 16:54:04 <ArtForz> it should be .35
925 2010-11-18 16:54:35 <nanotube> ;;bc,diff
926 2010-11-18 16:54:36 <gribble> 4536.35372328
927 2010-11-18 16:54:42 <nanotube> mm
928 2010-11-18 16:55:06 * Diablo-D3 listens to Basement Jaxx - Good Luck feat. Lisa Kekaula
929 2010-11-18 16:55:23 <ArtForz> ahhh
930 2010-11-18 16:55:44 <ArtForz> the difference between (0xffff << 208) and 2**224-1
931 2010-11-18 16:57:14 <ArtForz> (0xffff << 208) / current target = 4536.35...
932 2010-11-18 16:58:08 <ArtForz> the difference is < 0.01%, so... meh
933 2010-11-18 16:58:32 <nanotube> thanks for the info. :)
934 2010-11-18 17:01:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so Ive confirmed without a doubt its generating correctly
935 2010-11-18 17:01:23 <Diablo-D3> its just generating slower than it should
936 2010-11-18 17:01:25 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure why
937 2010-11-18 17:01:33 <ArtForz> so... run of bad luck?
938 2010-11-18 17:03:43 <Diablo-D3> dunno
939 2010-11-18 17:04:18 <nanotube> where's the data on the exact current target (as in, where did you get the 0x00000000000E7256000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 )
940 2010-11-18 17:04:37 m0mchil has left ()
941 2010-11-18 17:04:45 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: getwork returns it
942 2010-11-18 17:06:20 <nanotube> but where does it 'come from', exactly? how does my client know what the target is?
943 2010-11-18 17:06:34 <Diablo-D3> the current block chain
944 2010-11-18 17:06:58 <MacRohard> http://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/pour-occulter-le-dollar-rouvrons-84553
945 2010-11-18 17:07:06 <MacRohard> french article mentions bitcoin
946 2010-11-18 17:07:10 <nanotube> so it's stored in the chain explicitly? or does the client have to figure it out by inspecting the block chain?
947 2010-11-18 17:07:41 <ArtForz> each block contains nBits which is just a compressed representation of the current target
948 2010-11-18 17:07:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: theres a problem
949 2010-11-18 17:08:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the nonce is 32 bits, correct?
950 2010-11-18 17:08:05 <ArtForz> yep
951 2010-11-18 17:08:51 <Diablo-D3> 2**32/63/1000/1000
952 2010-11-18 17:08:53 <ArtForz> and every 2016 blocks the client looks at timestamps of block X and X-2015 to figure out the new tagrte for X+1 and the 2105 blocks after that
953 2010-11-18 17:09:11 <Diablo-D3> that gives me 68 seconds before I run out of nonces, right?
954 2010-11-18 17:09:19 <ArtForz> yep
955 2010-11-18 17:09:21 <nanotube> so in the block explorer, is it the 'bits' field? and if so, how would one 'translate' from 453931606 to the target?
956 2010-11-18 17:09:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: then there is a somewhat large problem
957 2010-11-18 17:09:36 <ArtForz> each time you call getwork you get a new nTime, no?
958 2010-11-18 17:09:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I'm only fetching new work > 68 seconds.
959 2010-11-18 17:09:53 <ArtForz> nanotube: it's slightly complicated
960 2010-11-18 17:10:15 <nanotube> mm
961 2010-11-18 17:10:27 <ArtForz> convert it to hex, top byte is number of bytes - 3 the rest needs to get shifted left
962 2010-11-18 17:10:27 <Diablo-D3> er wait
963 2010-11-18 17:10:31 <Diablo-D3> Im on drugs
964 2010-11-18 17:10:36 <Diablo-D3> I fetch every 5 seconds
965 2010-11-18 17:10:38 <Diablo-D3> Im still fine
966 2010-11-18 17:10:38 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
967 2010-11-18 17:10:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92717 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 19 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6834.41833777
968 2010-11-18 17:11:25 <nanotube> 19 blocks to go!
969 2010-11-18 17:11:54 <nanotube> ArtForz: ah cute
970 2010-11-18 17:12:01 <ArtForz> so if we have nBits 0x1b0e7256 that's 0x0e7256 << ((0x1b - 3) * 8)
971 2010-11-18 17:12:25 <brocktice> nanotube: whew, just found another block, just in time I guess
972 2010-11-18 17:12:48 <nanotube> ArtForz: cool, thanks :)
973 2010-11-18 17:12:51 <nanotube> brocktice: haha yea
974 2010-11-18 17:13:08 <ArtForz> theres special cases for nbits < 3
975 2010-11-18 17:13:49 <ArtForz> and the top bit of 24 bit value is a negative flag
976 2010-11-18 17:13:57 <nanotube> so another question... how do the clients 'decide' on the new difficulty? do they all just inspect the block chain over the past 2016 blocks, and do the calculation independently?
977 2010-11-18 17:14:05 <ArtForz> yep
978 2010-11-18 17:14:13 <nanotube> ah nice
979 2010-11-18 17:14:56 <nanotube> truly distributed. :)
980 2010-11-18 17:15:22 <ArtForz> yep
981 2010-11-18 17:17:34 <brocktice> And you can't cheat because then your chain will be 'shorter' in terms of total block difficulty?
982 2010-11-18 17:17:56 <nanotube> brocktice: well, other clients will not accept your block.
983 2010-11-18 17:18:09 <brocktice> nanotube: ah, right, it wouldn't match
984 2010-11-18 17:26:46 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 800
985 2010-11-18 17:26:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800 Khps, given current difficulty of 4536.35372328 , is 40 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 6 minutes, and 3 seconds
986 2010-11-18 17:27:00 <brocktice> !bc,calc 1300000
987 2010-11-18 17:27:09 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 1300000
988 2010-11-18 17:27:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 4536.35372328 , is 4 hours, 9 minutes, and 47 seconds
989 2010-11-18 17:27:31 <brocktice> After difficulty goes up it's time to bump voltages/clocks again
990 2010-11-18 17:27:36 <nanotube> heh
991 2010-11-18 17:27:39 <brocktice> I'm waiting to take the machine offline until then
992 2010-11-18 17:27:52 <brocktice> Also, I ordered a 5770 for my workstaiton, but realized too late it won't do 4 displays, only 3.
993 2010-11-18 17:27:58 <brocktice> So I'll drop that in the miner instead.
994 2010-11-18 17:28:00 <nanotube> brocktice: so you have 1.3 ghps?
995 2010-11-18 17:28:05 <brocktice> nanotube: roughly
996 2010-11-18 17:28:08 <nanotube> nice
997 2010-11-18 17:28:21 <brocktice> 1.32 right now
998 2010-11-18 17:28:30 <brocktice> I can hit 1.5 or 1.6 if I up the voltages a bit
999 2010-11-18 17:28:54 <brocktice> if I OC the 5770 it'll be around 1.8 total in 4U.
1000 2010-11-18 17:29:04 <nanotube> hehe good stuff. :)
1001 2010-11-18 17:29:07 <brocktice> Not sure about my PSU though, I also need to hook up the kill-a-watt
1002 2010-11-18 17:29:11 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 1800000
1003 2010-11-18 17:29:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 4536.35372328 , is 3 hours and 24 seconds
1004 2010-11-18 17:29:16 <ArtForz> ~ 9.1 here
1005 2010-11-18 17:29:25 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 9100000
1006 2010-11-18 17:29:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 9100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 4536.35372328 , is 35 minutes and 41 seconds
1007 2010-11-18 17:29:31 <brocktice> goddamn
1008 2010-11-18 17:29:43 <nanotube> hehe, nice. one block every 35 min is... fast. :)
1009 2010-11-18 17:29:44 <brocktice> I am expecting a price bump after the increase
1010 2010-11-18 17:29:47 <brocktice> we'll see if I'm right
1011 2010-11-18 17:30:17 <nanotube> heh indeed.
1012 2010-11-18 17:30:22 <ArtForz> lead times on 5970s fucking suck here
1013 2010-11-18 17:30:40 <brocktice> ArtForz: I can still get them easily here, and cheaply now, but they're starting to go out of stock.
1014 2010-11-18 17:30:47 <ArtForz> my next 8 should ship in about a week
1015 2010-11-18 17:30:58 <brocktice> You should buy stock in AMD.
1016 2010-11-18 17:31:20 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: eeeh
1017 2010-11-18 17:31:37 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: it's a joke
1018 2010-11-18 17:31:42 <ArtForz> then I'll be up to a total of 20 5970s
1019 2010-11-18 17:31:55 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: I dont consider that a very funny joke
1020 2010-11-18 17:32:04 <Diablo-D3> Im not saying AMD is bad, but its not quite worth buying yet
1021 2010-11-18 17:32:07 <Diablo-D3> price is too high
1022 2010-11-18 17:32:14 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: I just mean because he's giving them so much business.
1023 2010-11-18 17:32:21 <brocktice> You've never heard that before?
1024 2010-11-18 17:32:22 <Diablo-D3> him? not really
1025 2010-11-18 17:32:27 <Diablo-D3> hes not doing ANY business with AMD.
1026 2010-11-18 17:32:36 <Diablo-D3> hes doing business with vendors who do business with AMD
1027 2010-11-18 17:32:39 <brocktice> Yes
1028 2010-11-18 17:32:43 <brocktice> creating demaend
1029 2010-11-18 17:32:46 <brocktice> *demand
1030 2010-11-18 17:32:50 <Diablo-D3> not really
1031 2010-11-18 17:32:54 <brocktice> did you see my messages about your miner yesterday?
1032 2010-11-18 17:33:03 <Diablo-D3> AMD's business is hardly effected by consumers
1033 2010-11-18 17:33:07 <Diablo-D3> its almost all enterprise wankery
1034 2010-11-18 17:33:10 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: and no, I didnt
1035 2010-11-18 17:33:12 <ArtForz> yeah, demand for chips that have been manufactured 6months+ ago
1036 2010-11-18 17:33:18 <brocktice> Oh, I tried it again.
1037 2010-11-18 17:33:29 <brocktice> On one GPU I get up to about 98% utlization
1038 2010-11-18 17:33:37 <brocktice> I still have the problem using 4 where it splits about 30% each across 3
1039 2010-11-18 17:33:44 <brocktice> and leaves the fourth idle
1040 2010-11-18 17:33:48 <ArtForz> SDK 2.2 ?
1041 2010-11-18 17:33:49 <Diablo-D3> _huh_
1042 2010-11-18 17:33:51 <brocktice> yep
1043 2010-11-18 17:33:56 <ArtForz> use 2.1
1044 2010-11-18 17:34:02 <brocktice> His miner doesn't support 2.1
1045 2010-11-18 17:34:04 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: that almost sounds like a) you have crossfire on, b) its actually working
1046 2010-11-18 17:34:07 <Diablo-D3> my miner doesnt do 2.1
1047 2010-11-18 17:34:12 <brocktice> a) no, I don't and b) sort of
1048 2010-11-18 17:34:24 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: do you know why 3 is significant?
1049 2010-11-18 17:34:30 <ArtForz> hooray, you wrote a miner that doesnt work properly on multiGPU setups
1050 2010-11-18 17:34:32 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: maybe because I have 3 cores?
1051 2010-11-18 17:34:34 bryogeni1 has joined
1052 2010-11-18 17:34:40 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: because I have 3 kernels queued
1053 2010-11-18 17:34:41 <ArtForz> unless they fix it in 2.3
1054 2010-11-18 17:34:42 <brocktice> I should try unlocking the 4th again and see if it helps.
1055 2010-11-18 17:34:45 <xelister> ArtForz: who's miner?
1056 2010-11-18 17:34:57 bryogeni1 has left ()
1057 2010-11-18 17:34:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and no, 2.1 doesnt support 1.1
1058 2010-11-18 17:35:00 <ArtForz> any miner needing opencl 1.1 support
1059 2010-11-18 17:35:07 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: so do you need to queue 3x#gpus?
1060 2010-11-18 17:35:11 <xelister> is m0m's affected?
1061 2010-11-18 17:35:18 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: are you totally absolutely 100% sure you have crossfire off?
1062 2010-11-18 17:35:21 <ArtForz> m0s should work fine with sdk 2.1
1063 2010-11-18 17:35:27 <ArtForz> only AMD SDK supporting ocl1.1 is 2.2
1064 2010-11-18 17:35:33 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: yes, totally absolutely, I'm runing m0's all the time and it doesn't work with crossfire on
1065 2010-11-18 17:35:39 <ArtForz> and multigpu support in 2.2 seems severely broken
1066 2010-11-18 17:35:44 <brocktice> I switched back and forth between his and yours during testing
1067 2010-11-18 17:35:45 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: with mine, do you get 4 lines saying 5970 or whatever?
1068 2010-11-18 17:35:48 <xelister> ArtForz: so what drivers are needed for nvidia then again?
1069 2010-11-18 17:35:50 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: yes
1070 2010-11-18 17:35:52 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: huh.
1071 2010-11-18 17:35:55 <ArtForz> xelister: no clue
1072 2010-11-18 17:36:07 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: let me roll a custom build for hilarity
1073 2010-11-18 17:36:47 <ArtForz> oh, and CAL multiGPU is also broken in 2.2
1074 2010-11-18 17:36:52 <xelister> and for AMD, one should use the neweest 2.2 ati drivers? or 2.1
1075 2010-11-18 17:36:59 <ArtForz> newest driver is 10.10
1076 2010-11-18 17:37:09 <ArtForz> which seems to be a bit slower than 10.9
1077 2010-11-18 17:37:25 <ArtForz> but it seems to be the only driver supporting >4 GPUs
1078 2010-11-18 17:37:28 <xelister> ok so 2.2 streak SDK should be used?
1079 2010-11-18 17:37:34 <xelister> stream
1080 2010-11-18 17:37:35 <ArtForz> *headdesk*
1081 2010-11-18 17:38:25 bryogenic has joined
1082 2010-11-18 17:39:25 bryogenic has quit (Client Quit)
1083 2010-11-18 17:39:39 * Diablo-D3 uploads
1084 2010-11-18 17:39:55 <ArtForz> I hope AMD fixes their shit in SDK 2.3
1085 2010-11-18 17:40:07 <brocktice> ArtForz: slight kink in Eyefinity plans
1086 2010-11-18 17:40:16 <ArtForz> hmm?
1087 2010-11-18 17:40:17 <brocktice> I realized last night after doing more research that the card will only drive 3 displays
1088 2010-11-18 17:40:25 <brocktice> the HDMI port is wired to one of the DVIs
1089 2010-11-18 17:40:29 <ArtForz> yea
1090 2010-11-18 17:40:30 <Diablo-D3> 3 non-displayport displays
1091 2010-11-18 17:40:45 <brocktice> So I'm going to drop that 5770 into the miner, and I ordered the PowerColor Eyefinity 5.
1092 2010-11-18 17:40:47 <ArtForz> no... 2
1093 2010-11-18 17:40:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: 3
1094 2010-11-18 17:41:05 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: Most cards do not actually have those, though.
1095 2010-11-18 17:41:13 <brocktice> It has 4 ports but 2 of them are wired together.
1096 2010-11-18 17:41:13 <ArtForz> how the hell 3?
1097 2010-11-18 17:41:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: + vga, but Ive never seen someone wire the vga
1098 2010-11-18 17:41:17 <brocktice> either/or
1099 2010-11-18 17:41:32 <ArtForz> nope, it only has 2 PLLs
1100 2010-11-18 17:41:33 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: the first two displayports have passive hdmi support
1101 2010-11-18 17:41:45 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: Card only has 1 displayport
1102 2010-11-18 17:41:54 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: then its not eyefinity
1103 2010-11-18 17:41:57 <ArtForz> except passive HDMI *also* uses one of the PLLs
1104 2010-11-18 17:42:03 <Diablo-D3> http://adterrasperaspera.com/images/DiabloMiner-test.zip
1105 2010-11-18 17:42:05 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: try that
1106 2010-11-18 17:42:17 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: I changed it to do 24 executions instead of 3
1107 2010-11-18 17:42:25 OneFixt has quit ()
1108 2010-11-18 17:42:27 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: OK
1109 2010-11-18 17:42:46 OneFixt has joined
1110 2010-11-18 17:42:48 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
1111 2010-11-18 17:42:48 OneFixt has joined
1112 2010-11-18 17:42:48 theymos has joined
1113 2010-11-18 17:42:50 <ArtForz> you can only have a max of 2 of hdmi/dvi/vga outputs in any combination active
1114 2010-11-18 17:42:52 * Diablo-D3 runs it on his 4850 for the hilarity
1115 2010-11-18 17:42:52 <ne0futur> anyone here selling mtg$ and havina gpg key ?
1116 2010-11-18 17:43:01 <ArtForz> + any number of native DP
1117 2010-11-18 17:43:51 <xelister> what is CAL? other name for Ati Stream SDK ?
1118 2010-11-18 17:43:55 <ArtForz> so with a 5770 with only 1 DP you are limited to 2 displays via dvi/vga/hdmi + 1 display DP or DVI w/ active DP converter
1119 2010-11-18 17:44:07 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: starting
1120 2010-11-18 17:44:07 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the new name for CTM... its the native assembly/il for ati
1121 2010-11-18 17:44:32 <Diablo-D3> btw, those non-eyefinity cards that "have" eyefinity are a hack
1122 2010-11-18 17:44:42 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: same problem
1123 2010-11-18 17:44:44 <Diablo-D3> as far as I can tell, it has an onboard displayport hub
1124 2010-11-18 17:44:56 <xelister> of the high end radeon cards >= 5770 , should any pose any difficulty in running m0m's miner, on windows? and on linux?
1125 2010-11-18 17:44:58 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: fine with me, I just want to drive my damn monitors
1126 2010-11-18 17:45:07 <ArtForz> I dont think there are displayport hubs yet
1127 2010-11-18 17:45:12 <Diablo-D3> it means they fucked up and they're morons
1128 2010-11-18 17:45:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the chips are out
1129 2010-11-18 17:45:25 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: hmm, no increase at all?
1130 2010-11-18 17:45:57 <ArtForz> afaik they dont use hubs, but every 57xx/58xx chip has 6 DP outputs, they're just not wired up
1131 2010-11-18 17:46:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: huh, that doesnt sound right
1132 2010-11-18 17:46:11 hippich_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1133 2010-11-18 17:46:14 <Diablo-D3> otherwise every card could be eyefinity
1134 2010-11-18 17:46:29 <ArtForz> why?
1135 2010-11-18 17:46:40 <Diablo-D3> and they could just curbstomp nvidia further
1136 2010-11-18 17:46:52 <ArtForz> where do you plan to put those extra DP connectors?
1137 2010-11-18 17:47:05 <Diablo-D3> break out dongle, duh.
1138 2010-11-18 17:47:07 bryogenic has joined
1139 2010-11-18 17:47:12 <Diablo-D3> and hell, they could still fit four
1140 2010-11-18 17:48:01 <ArtForz> I guess you could lose the HDMI port and fit 2 DVI + 4 miniDP or so
1141 2010-11-18 17:48:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no
1142 2010-11-18 17:48:22 <Diablo-D3> go straight to two hdmi + whatever
1143 2010-11-18 17:48:28 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: exactly the same
1144 2010-11-18 17:48:28 <ArtForz> wait... we can have passive adapters
1145 2010-11-18 17:48:30 <OneFixt> Has someone here tried out watercooling on their gpus?
1146 2010-11-18 17:48:30 <Diablo-D3> or use the mini-hdmis
1147 2010-11-18 17:48:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah!
1148 2010-11-18 17:48:41 <ArtForz> 2 DP, 4 miniDP
1149 2010-11-18 17:48:53 <Diablo-D3> raepraepraepraepraep
1150 2010-11-18 17:49:07 <ArtForz> + passive hdmi and dvi dongles
1151 2010-11-18 17:49:10 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: hrrrm
1152 2010-11-18 17:49:19 * Diablo-D3 ponders changing his setup.
1153 2010-11-18 17:49:20 <ArtForz> only problem would be 0 vga support
1154 2010-11-18 17:49:30 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: FWIW I saw similiar results using m0's miner with 2.2
1155 2010-11-18 17:49:32 <brocktice> I think the problem is 2.2
1156 2010-11-18 17:49:46 <Diablo-D3> theoretically blocking like m0 does, but run a device per thread should get the same results
1157 2010-11-18 17:49:49 <Diablo-D3> theoretically, anyways
1158 2010-11-18 17:50:18 <Diablo-D3> and it'd shut those nvidia fags up already
1159 2010-11-18 17:50:54 <nanotube> ArtForz: btw, is the issue with sdk2.2 known to amd? have you (or anyone else) reported it?
1160 2010-11-18 17:50:58 <ArtForz> yes
1161 2010-11-18 17:51:03 <Diablo-D3> yes AMD knows of it
1162 2010-11-18 17:51:04 <brocktice> ;;bc,estimate
1163 2010-11-18 17:51:04 <gribble> 6834.77643465
1164 2010-11-18 17:51:08 <ArtForz> the fucking dev forums are full of reports
1165 2010-11-18 17:51:12 <nanotube> ah ok
1166 2010-11-18 17:51:17 <brocktice> up up up it goes
1167 2010-11-18 17:51:19 <nanotube> so there's a good chance that they'll try to fix it then?
1168 2010-11-18 17:51:22 <Diablo-D3> yes
1169 2010-11-18 17:51:26 <ArtForz> yeah
1170 2010-11-18 17:51:27 <Diablo-D3> 2.3 comes out in Dec
1171 2010-11-18 17:51:31 <nanotube> cool
1172 2010-11-18 17:51:37 <ArtForz> yep
1173 2010-11-18 17:51:38 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1174 2010-11-18 17:51:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92720 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 16 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6834.77643465
1175 2010-11-18 17:51:43 <nanotube> ooh, 16 blocks to go
1176 2010-11-18 17:51:59 <ArtForz> my guess is 2.3 will coincide with 69xx release
1177 2010-11-18 17:52:23 <brocktice> Pretty soon it really will be OVER 9000
1178 2010-11-18 17:53:51 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: would it be so bad to support 2.1?
1179 2010-11-18 17:54:01 <ArtForz> yeah, he uses callbacks
1180 2010-11-18 17:54:05 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: [12:41:52] * Diablo-D3 ponders changing his setup.
1181 2010-11-18 17:54:09 <nanotube> pretty soon == another two weeks, if the cpu power keeps going up at the same rate
1182 2010-11-18 17:54:11 <ArtForz> which is a ocl1.1 feature
1183 2010-11-18 17:54:46 <brocktice> nanotube: (a) I'll bet it won't and (b) less than two weeks if so
1184 2010-11-18 17:55:06 <brocktice> nanotube: Although Art *is* waiting for some more 5970s to arrive, right?
1185 2010-11-18 17:55:11 <ArtForz> we'd still see a diff rise even if cpu power only keeps constant
1186 2010-11-18 17:55:13 <nanotube> brocktice: hehe well... people do seem to be bringing more gpus online... so it just might.
1187 2010-11-18 17:55:26 * Diablo-D3 starts humming one of the final fantasy battle tunes
1188 2010-11-18 17:55:48 <nanotube> ArtForz: ah right... because current diff is based on the 'average cpu over the past 2016 blocks' which is lower than current cpu power
1189 2010-11-18 17:55:56 <ArtForz> yep
1190 2010-11-18 17:56:04 <ArtForz> average of this period will be ~49Gh/s
1191 2010-11-18 17:56:23 <ArtForz> currently we're doing well north of 60
1192 2010-11-18 17:56:47 <nanotube> yea... the estimate keeps going up every time it's requested. :)
1193 2010-11-18 17:57:50 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,estimate
1194 2010-11-18 17:57:50 <gribble> 6831.39254762
1195 2010-11-18 17:57:51 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,estimate
1196 2010-11-18 17:57:51 <gribble> 6831.39254762
1197 2010-11-18 17:57:52 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,estimate
1198 2010-11-18 17:57:52 <gribble> 6831.39254762
1199 2010-11-18 17:57:53 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,estimate
1200 2010-11-18 17:57:53 <gribble> 6831.39254762
1201 2010-11-18 17:57:56 <Diablo-D3> lies.
1202 2010-11-18 17:58:01 <ArtForz> theory disproven.
1203 2010-11-18 17:58:19 <Diablo-D3> now, of course if it did, I'd have to write a bot to exploit this
1204 2010-11-18 17:58:21 hippich_ has joined
1205 2010-11-18 17:58:46 <ArtForz> well, I know why it stayed constant
1206 2010-11-18 17:58:57 <ArtForz> you observed it
1207 2010-11-18 17:59:17 * Diablo-D3 's head explodes
1208 2010-11-18 17:59:28 <ArtForz> or was it "a watched difficulty never rises" ...
1209 2010-11-18 17:59:49 <brocktice> ArtForz: that's *definitely* not it
1210 2010-11-18 17:59:55 <brocktice> because we're watching, and it's rising.
1211 2010-11-18 17:59:59 <brocktice> ;;bc,estimate
1212 2010-11-18 17:59:59 <gribble> 6831.95209838
1213 2010-11-18 18:00:05 <brocktice> we just watched too fast.
1214 2010-11-18 18:00:12 <ArtForz> see? no one watched for a moment.
1215 2010-11-18 18:00:31 <ArtForz> :P
1216 2010-11-18 18:03:50 <ArtForz> I tried every fucking possible combination, SDK 2.2 + multiple GPUs = fail
1217 2010-11-18 18:03:59 <Diablo-D3> surprisingly my hack didnt blow up in my face
1218 2010-11-18 18:04:24 <Diablo-D3> spoke too soon
1219 2010-11-18 18:04:46 <ArtForz> all gpus in a single context, multiple contexts single thread, multiple contexts multiple threads, seperate process for each context
1220 2010-11-18 18:05:27 <ArtForz> every time the same result, one GPU alone runs fine, fire up the 2nd and both drop to 50%
1221 2010-11-18 18:05:58 <theymos> Should I change testnet BBE to show difficulty factors calculated in relation to the testnet bnProofOfWorkLimit?
1222 2010-11-18 18:06:01 <ArtForz> it's like theres a fucking systemwide mutex somewhere
1223 2010-11-18 18:06:37 <ArtForz> theymos: dunno, I kinda like it showing main-difficulty equivalent
1224 2010-11-18 18:07:06 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1225 2010-11-18 18:07:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92725 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 11 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6832.02386139
1226 2010-11-18 18:07:51 <ArtForz> and yep, GetDifficulty (used by getinfo) appears to be broken for testnet
1227 2010-11-18 18:08:32 <theymos> I doubt anyone cares about the "real" testnet difficulty factor, so I'll just leave it.
1228 2010-11-18 18:08:38 Sirius_ has joined
1229 2010-11-18 18:09:08 <ArtForz> guess so, 2**32 makes a much nicer factor anyways
1230 2010-11-18 18:17:54 <brocktice> nanotube: Gribble is yours right?
1231 2010-11-18 18:18:51 hippich_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1232 2010-11-18 18:22:56 <nanotube> brocktice: yes
1233 2010-11-18 18:23:19 <brocktice> nanotube: feature request -- add an ETA to next block?
1234 2010-11-18 18:23:24 <brocktice> please? :)
1235 2010-11-18 18:23:40 <nanotube> brocktice: eta to next block? shouldn't that always be ~10 min? :)
1236 2010-11-18 18:23:45 <ArtForz> yep
1237 2010-11-18 18:23:46 <brocktice> er, next diff
1238 2010-11-18 18:23:56 <ArtForz> ahhh... yeah, that would make sense
1239 2010-11-18 18:24:39 <ArtForz> so... just (avg time/block so far in this period) * (blocks remaining till next diff change)?
1240 2010-11-18 18:24:49 <brocktice> ArtForz: yeah, naieve ETA
1241 2010-11-18 18:24:59 <nanotube> i'll give that a try. :)
1242 2010-11-18 18:25:05 <brocktice> thanks!
1243 2010-11-18 18:25:10 <ArtForz> 5 blocks to go
1244 2010-11-18 18:25:23 <brocktice> whoa, someone found a bunch in a hurry
1245 2010-11-18 18:25:37 <ArtForz> 4
1246 2010-11-18 18:26:07 <brocktice> lol one was me, I guess
1247 2010-11-18 18:26:09 <brocktice> just checked
1248 2010-11-18 18:26:21 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1249 2010-11-18 18:26:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92731 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6839.51037816
1250 2010-11-18 18:26:25 <ArtForz> I got one ~6 min ago
1251 2010-11-18 18:26:35 <brocktice> 1 min ago here
1252 2010-11-18 18:26:43 <Kiba> a 5,000 points jump in difficulty
1253 2010-11-18 18:26:49 <ArtForz> btw, in 5 will be the first block with the new diff
1254 2010-11-18 18:27:02 <ArtForz> last block with old diff will be 92735
1255 2010-11-18 18:27:02 <nanotube> Kiba: no... just 2300
1256 2010-11-18 18:27:13 <Kiba> oh
1257 2010-11-18 18:27:15 <Kiba> I misread
1258 2010-11-18 18:27:49 <nanotube> ArtForz: right. :) we had a very enlightening discussion about that yesterday :)
1259 2010-11-18 18:27:54 <ArtForz> yep
1260 2010-11-18 18:28:27 <ArtForz> and I think my nextdiff calc still differs from mainline :/
1261 2010-11-18 18:35:45 <Diablo-D3> [12:57:19] <ArtForz> all gpus in a single context, multiple contexts single thread, multiple contexts multiple threads, seperate process for each context
1262 2010-11-18 18:35:49 <Diablo-D3> poooooossssibllyy
1263 2010-11-18 18:36:12 <ArtForz> there we go
1264 2010-11-18 18:36:22 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1265 2010-11-18 18:36:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92735 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6851.09663233
1266 2010-11-18 18:36:28 <ArtForz> new nbits 1b098b2a
1267 2010-11-18 18:36:29 <nanotube> ooooh
1268 2010-11-18 18:36:34 <Diablo-D3> hey brocktice
1269 2010-11-18 18:36:39 <nanotube> last block at old difficulty has been generated
1270 2010-11-18 18:36:42 <Diablo-D3> you know that build I just gave you?
1271 2010-11-18 18:36:44 <ArtForz> my calc says new diff 6866.9
1272 2010-11-18 18:36:59 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: you should try it with crossfire on :D
1273 2010-11-18 18:37:15 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: should that work?
1274 2010-11-18 18:37:27 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: it shouldnt.
1275 2010-11-18 18:37:37 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: but no one has tried shit this stupid
1276 2010-11-18 18:37:50 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: you can get a 5970 for $460 now.
1277 2010-11-18 18:38:03 <Diablo-D3> fuck! only $460?! ILL GET RIGHT FUCKING ON THAT
1278 2010-11-18 18:38:05 hippich_ has joined
1279 2010-11-18 18:38:07 <Diablo-D3> WITH MY $120
1280 2010-11-18 18:38:14 <brocktice> Considering some people pay $700 or have in the past it's quite cheap
1281 2010-11-18 18:38:19 <brocktice> What do you have now?
1282 2010-11-18 18:38:23 <Diablo-D3> 4850.
1283 2010-11-18 18:38:47 <brocktice> Wait, I thought 4xxx series didn't do opencl?
1284 2010-11-18 18:38:49 <brocktice> Or is that 3xxx?
1285 2010-11-18 18:39:05 <Diablo-D3> 3xxxxxxxx
1286 2010-11-18 18:39:11 <brocktice> You could probably bet another 4850 on ebay cheap and crossfire them for testing.
1287 2010-11-18 18:39:15 <brocktice> *get
1288 2010-11-18 18:40:09 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
1289 2010-11-18 18:40:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92735 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6851.09663233
1290 2010-11-18 18:40:14 <brocktice> here comes!
1291 2010-11-18 18:40:23 <ArtForz> here comes what?
1292 2010-11-18 18:40:28 <ArtForz> next diff IS 6866.9
1293 2010-11-18 18:40:32 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: and insert it where?
1294 2010-11-18 18:40:35 <brocktice> new diff?
1295 2010-11-18 18:40:36 <ArtForz> target 0x0000000000098b2ad53f8d9272c0c5a5f3f8d9272c0c5a5f3f8d9272c0c5a5f3
1296 2010-11-18 18:40:41 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: you don't have a slot?
1297 2010-11-18 18:40:45 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: single x16.
1298 2010-11-18 18:40:50 <ArtForz> if you check debug.log it's already in there
1299 2010-11-18 18:41:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ... so how the fuck do I check THAT
1300 2010-11-18 18:41:13 <ArtForz> check what?
1301 2010-11-18 18:41:14 <brocktice> Well, for under $120 you can probably get both a new MB and another 4850
1302 2010-11-18 18:41:25 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: why would I buy a new mobo for a c2d?
1303 2010-11-18 18:41:44 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: I don't know, because you're obsessed with writing a Java miner that will work with 2+ gpus in 2.2?
1304 2010-11-18 18:41:58 <Diablo-D3> how about people start donating btc to me
1305 2010-11-18 18:42:04 <Diablo-D3> so I can buy new hardware to test the miner on
1306 2010-11-18 18:42:09 <brocktice> I donated to m0 because his miner gets me BTC
1307 2010-11-18 18:42:18 darkskiez has joined
1308 2010-11-18 18:42:30 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: so, try with crossfire on
1309 2010-11-18 18:42:35 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: later
1310 2010-11-18 18:42:35 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: it should be hilarity
1311 2010-11-18 18:42:44 <brocktice> 12:29 < Diablo-D3> brocktice: but no one has tried shit this stupid
1312 2010-11-18 18:42:45 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: dude, you can do it with aticonfig without even restarting X
1313 2010-11-18 18:42:48 <brocktice> yeah that sounds like a great idea to me
1314 2010-11-18 18:43:03 <Diablo-D3> well, worse case is, it utilizes all 4 gpus 100%
1315 2010-11-18 18:43:07 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1316 2010-11-18 18:43:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92735 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 minutes and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6851.09663233
1317 2010-11-18 18:43:11 <nanotube> brocktice: --^
1318 2010-11-18 18:43:12 <brocktice> I think that would be best case
1319 2010-11-18 18:43:20 <ArtForz> worst carse is it silently produces invalid results
1320 2010-11-18 18:43:23 <brocktice> Nice!
1321 2010-11-18 18:43:31 <brocktice> thanks! address?
1322 2010-11-18 18:43:39 <ArtForz> which xfire + opencl IS KNOWN TO DO
1323 2010-11-18 18:43:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: Im not entirely sure about that
1324 2010-11-18 18:43:55 <nanotube> brocktice: see ,,botsnack :) and thanks :)
1325 2010-11-18 18:43:57 <ArtForz> just check the AMD dev forums
1326 2010-11-18 18:44:04 <nanotube> ;;botsnack
1327 2010-11-18 18:44:04 <gribble> Why not send me some bitcoins instead, to this address: 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
1328 2010-11-18 18:44:20 <brocktice> done
1329 2010-11-18 18:44:27 <brocktice> One killer app for bitcoins is donations
1330 2010-11-18 18:44:30 <Diablo-D3> 13SSDHnqwQVDoha7nVyKyr5Pj3Rpx1sDuN
1331 2010-11-18 18:44:34 <Diablo-D3> or donate to that one
1332 2010-11-18 18:45:04 brucewagner has joined
1333 2010-11-18 18:46:02 <nanotube> brocktice: thank you :D
1334 2010-11-18 18:46:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hey, how do I make enqueue kernel a blocking call?
1335 2010-11-18 18:46:09 <brocktice> yw
1336 2010-11-18 18:46:41 <nanotube> so, who's planning a party when we reach block 100k? :)
1337 2010-11-18 18:46:52 <brocktice> I was thinking party when diff goes OVER 9000
1338 2010-11-18 18:46:54 <brocktice> but that's soon.
1339 2010-11-18 18:47:01 <Diablo-D3> lol
1340 2010-11-18 18:47:08 <ArtForz> either use events and clWaitForEvents or use clFinish
1341 2010-11-18 18:47:10 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1342 2010-11-18 18:47:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92735 | Current Difficulty: 4536.35372328 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 minutes and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6851.09663233
1343 2010-11-18 18:47:15 hippich_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1344 2010-11-18 18:47:27 <OneFixt> Time, as we know it, has stopped.
1345 2010-11-18 18:47:32 <ArtForz> wrong estimate is wrong
1346 2010-11-18 18:47:43 <Diablo-D3> longpenis is long
1347 2010-11-18 18:48:02 <ArtForz> ceiling cat is watching you
1348 2010-11-18 18:48:31 <theymos> Close enough. Some precision was probably lost in floating point calculations (or maybe my calculations are more precise than Bitcoin's).
1349 2010-11-18 18:48:32 <brocktice> Jeff Goldblum is watching you ...
1350 2010-11-18 18:48:33 <brocktice> poop
1351 2010-11-18 18:48:34 <Diablo-D3> "Write miner of pure awesomeness"
1352 2010-11-18 18:48:38 <Diablo-D3> *advice diablo*
1353 2010-11-18 18:48:41 <Diablo-D3> "No one uses it"
1354 2010-11-18 18:48:46 <nanotube> ArtForz: how is it wrong? and... estimate is being pulled from theymos's site, so talk to him. :)
1355 2010-11-18 18:49:04 <ArtForz> next diff is not an estimate anymore, it's already known, next target = 0x0000000000098B2A000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
1356 2010-11-18 18:49:31 <nanotube> ArtForz: well, until a block is produced at that difficulty... it won't show up :)
1357 2010-11-18 18:49:52 <ArtForz> but thats the thing, you dont need the first bock in the new diff to know what the new diff is
1358 2010-11-18 18:50:03 <ArtForz> and that target gives a difficulty of 6866.9
1359 2010-11-18 18:50:05 <brocktice> nope because nothing will change it by then
1360 2010-11-18 18:50:18 <nanotube> ArtForz: indeed... but oh well. :)
1361 2010-11-18 18:50:19 <ArtForz> might be the usual 2**224-1/0xFFFF0000... diference
1362 2010-11-18 18:51:02 hippich_ has joined
1363 2010-11-18 18:51:09 <ArtForz> so if nextdiff = gazillion and no blocks get found, it doesn't exist?
1364 2010-11-18 18:51:21 <Diablo-D3> yes
1365 2010-11-18 18:51:22 <nanotube> ArtForz: right! hehe
1366 2010-11-18 18:51:32 duck1123 has joined
1367 2010-11-18 18:51:36 <ArtForz> so miners are now searching for a block with a nonexistant difficulty... wow.
1368 2010-11-18 18:51:51 <nanotube> ArtForz: no wonder the next block is a long time in coming... that explains everything
1369 2010-11-18 18:53:04 <ArtForz> there we go
1370 2010-11-18 18:53:09 <nanotube> yay, next block just came through
1371 2010-11-18 18:53:11 <nanotube> heh
1372 2010-11-18 18:53:18 <nanotube> ;;bc,estimate
1373 2010-11-18 18:53:18 <gribble> 6851.09663233
1374 2010-11-18 18:53:28 <nanotube> hm guess theymos's client hasn't received it yet
1375 2010-11-18 18:53:34 <nanotube> bc,diff
1376 2010-11-18 18:53:35 <nanotube> ;;bc,diff
1377 2010-11-18 18:53:35 <gribble> 6866.89864897
1378 2010-11-18 18:53:39 <nanotube> mm
1379 2010-11-18 18:53:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I think I know why people think xfire silently corrupts
1380 2010-11-18 18:53:48 <theymos> BBE runs at a delay.
1381 2010-11-18 18:53:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: people call enqueue kernel with no output event
1382 2010-11-18 18:54:10 <ArtForz> wow, ouch
1383 2010-11-18 18:54:25 <nanotube> ;;bc,diff
1384 2010-11-18 18:54:25 <gribble> 6866.89864897
1385 2010-11-18 18:54:31 <nanotube> ;;bc,estimate
1386 2010-11-18 18:54:31 <gribble> 4004.02253584
1387 2010-11-18 18:54:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so they try to read a buffer without waiting for the kenrel to finish
1388 2010-11-18 18:54:53 <brocktice> wha?
1389 2010-11-18 18:54:59 <ArtForz> erm, clFinish() should wait for all currently queued jobs to finish
1390 2010-11-18 18:55:01 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
1391 2010-11-18 18:55:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92736 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 92736 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 4004.02253584
1392 2010-11-18 18:55:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but is everyone using it?
1393 2010-11-18 18:55:13 <nanotube> theymos: how come nexttarget shows still the old target?
1394 2010-11-18 18:55:33 <ArtForz> *chirps* it's b0rked
1395 2010-11-18 18:55:35 <nanotube> shouldn't it be 92736+2016 by now?
1396 2010-11-18 18:55:43 <ArtForz> yep
1397 2010-11-18 18:56:33 <nanotube> btw, does anyone know why it's 2016 and not something round like 2048?
1398 2010-11-18 18:56:51 <ArtForz> 6(blocks/h) * 24h * 14d
1399 2010-11-18 18:57:34 <nanotube> heh, i guess the roundness of 14days superseded the roundness of 2048 eh
1400 2010-11-18 18:57:39 <theymos> It's fixed now. I didn't have it refresh the cache when loading nextretarget (only hextarget/decimaltarget).
1401 2010-11-18 18:57:45 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
1402 2010-11-18 18:57:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92737 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 4 minutes, and 7 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6683.11304036
1403 2010-11-18 18:57:55 hippich_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1404 2010-11-18 18:57:57 <brocktice> cool
1405 2010-11-18 18:58:12 <nanotube> theymos: nice. :)
1406 2010-11-18 18:58:50 <nanotube> theymos: got an address? i'll give you half of brocktice's donation, since you clearly deserve it. :)
1407 2010-11-18 18:58:57 <ArtForz> got my first block at new diff
1408 2010-11-18 18:59:10 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1409 2010-11-18 18:59:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92738 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 2014 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 8 hours, 53 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6683.11304036
1410 2010-11-18 18:59:21 <theymos> nanotube: Thanks. 1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
1411 2010-11-18 18:59:45 <brocktice> nanotube stop
1412 2010-11-18 18:59:48 <nanotube> sent
1413 2010-11-18 18:59:58 <brocktice> ok nm
1414 2010-11-18 18:59:59 <theymos> ty
1415 2010-11-18 19:00:01 <nanotube> brocktice: oop too late :)
1416 2010-11-18 19:00:25 <nanotube> theymos: yw :)
1417 2010-11-18 19:00:30 <brocktice> it's ok just meant I had to make 2 separate xfers
1418 2010-11-18 19:00:41 <theymos> Another donation! Thanks.
1419 2010-11-18 19:00:47 <nanotube> brocktice: haha thanks again! :)
1420 2010-11-18 19:01:04 <brocktice> yw
1421 2010-11-18 19:01:13 <ArtForz> neat, avg for last 144 blocks was 67Gh/s
1422 2010-11-18 19:01:21 <nanotube> ArtForz: ooh nice
1423 2010-11-18 19:01:25 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1424 2010-11-18 19:01:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92740 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 2012 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13615.79375209
1425 2010-11-18 19:01:32 <nanotube> whoa
1426 2010-11-18 19:01:49 <nanotube> guess we had a lucky fast streak
1427 2010-11-18 19:01:54 <ArtForz> yeah, the first few blocks were pretty fast
1428 2010-11-18 19:01:54 <nanotube> which threw the next diff way up
1429 2010-11-18 19:01:54 hippich_ has joined
1430 2010-11-18 19:02:02 <brocktice> I got one
1431 2010-11-18 19:02:07 <ArtForz> so did I
1432 2010-11-18 19:02:28 <nanotube> we are already at 6 blocks with new diff
1433 2010-11-18 19:02:32 <nanotube> and it's been way less than an hour.
1434 2010-11-18 19:02:47 <ArtForz> and someone got a 5.07 BTC tx fee
1435 2010-11-18 19:02:58 <nanotube> so is next difficulty 'capped' at 1.5x old difficulty?
1436 2010-11-18 19:02:59 <ArtForz> err.. no
1437 2010-11-18 19:03:00 <ArtForz> fuck
1438 2010-11-18 19:03:07 <brocktice> nanotube: 4x
1439 2010-11-18 19:03:16 <ArtForz> I think my block parser just went belly up for some reason
1440 2010-11-18 19:03:20 <nanotube> brocktice: ah ok. and on the downside, is it also capped at 1/4?
1441 2010-11-18 19:03:25 <ArtForz> yep
1442 2010-11-18 19:03:30 <nanotube> k cool
1443 2010-11-18 19:03:36 <ArtForz> max adjustment is x4 /4
1444 2010-11-18 19:03:56 <ArtForz> we only hit x4 once so far
1445 2010-11-18 19:04:04 <nanotube> heh when was taht?
1446 2010-11-18 19:04:08 <ArtForz> after /.
1447 2010-11-18 19:04:09 <ArtForz> 45.4 -> 181.5
1448 2010-11-18 19:04:22 <nanotube> aah right. should have guessed. :)
1449 2010-11-18 19:05:17 <nanotube> imagine, difficulty of 45.4. with your current generation capacity, you'd be getting them seconds apart. :)
1450 2010-11-18 19:05:31 hippich_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1451 2010-11-18 19:05:34 <ArtForz> not quite seconds, but close
1452 2010-11-18 19:05:53 <nanotube> heh
1453 2010-11-18 19:06:28 <ArtForz> oh... secondS
1454 2010-11-18 19:06:48 <ArtForz> yea
1455 2010-11-18 19:07:20 <xelister> m0's miner works like SHIT
1456 2010-11-18 19:07:26 <xelister> when playing flash at same time
1457 2010-11-18 19:07:32 <xelister> well, flash is shit that can be the reason
1458 2010-11-18 19:07:36 <ArtForz> blame adobe
1459 2010-11-18 19:07:39 <xelister> I do
1460 2010-11-18 19:07:41 <xelister> stupid fuckers
1461 2010-11-18 19:07:44 <nanotube> ArtForz: mm ok. i just did a rough calculation that at 45xx diff you had 35min between blocks on avg... 45 is 100 times less than 45xx, so you should be getting blocks 100 times faster.
1462 2010-11-18 19:07:52 <nanotube> ArtForz: was wondering where i went wrong. :)
1463 2010-11-18 19:07:57 * xelister wishes hitmans would accept bitcoins
1464 2010-11-18 19:08:11 <ArtForz> my miner doesnt do too good with block times in the low seconds
1465 2010-11-18 19:10:04 <ArtForz> tough it might've worked ok with my latest improvements
1466 2010-11-18 19:10:33 <ArtForz> on testnet, at a main-equiv diff of ~ 1.33 I got ~2.3Gh/s effective out of 2x5970+5770
1467 2010-11-18 19:10:56 <ArtForz> err
1468 2010-11-18 19:11:02 <ArtForz> 4*5970+5770
1469 2010-11-18 19:11:15 <nanotube> mm, the next block is long in coming.
1470 2010-11-18 19:11:29 hippich_ has joined
1471 2010-11-18 19:11:39 <ArtForz> should've been around 2.9Gh/s
1472 2010-11-18 19:11:52 bryogenic has quit (Quit: Changing server)
1473 2010-11-18 19:12:21 <ArtForz> but at <2s/block overheads start to play a major role
1474 2010-11-18 19:14:03 <nanotube> mmm
1475 2010-11-18 19:14:48 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc
1476 2010-11-18 19:14:48 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
1477 2010-11-18 19:15:12 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 800
1478 2010-11-18 19:15:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 1 year, 8 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 39 minutes, and 41 seconds
1479 2010-11-18 19:15:14 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 1500000
1480 2010-11-18 19:15:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 5 hours, 27 minutes, and 42 seconds
1481 2010-11-18 19:15:24 <nanotube> ouch. with my cpu, it'll be more that 1 year now.
1482 2010-11-18 19:15:26 <brocktice> hey that's hps, not khps
1483 2010-11-18 19:15:33 bryogenic has joined
1484 2010-11-18 19:15:51 <nanotube> brocktice: function assumes input is in khps
1485 2010-11-18 19:16:04 <brocktice> no it doesn't
1486 2010-11-18 19:16:17 <nanotube> brocktice: note the *1000
1487 2010-11-18 19:16:29 <brocktice> oh wait
1488 2010-11-18 19:16:30 <brocktice> sorry
1489 2010-11-18 19:16:31 <brocktice> my bad
1490 2010-11-18 19:16:34 <nanotube> :)
1491 2010-11-18 19:16:46 <brocktice> multitasking ftl
1492 2010-11-18 19:16:50 <nanotube> heh
1493 2010-11-18 19:18:05 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1494 2010-11-18 19:18:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92741 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10102.50720731
1495 2010-11-18 19:18:12 <nanotube> next diff only 10k heh
1496 2010-11-18 19:18:42 <brocktice> eh, too soon to say
1497 2010-11-18 19:18:44 <brocktice> too much noise
1498 2010-11-18 19:22:25 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1499 2010-11-18 19:22:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92743 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 2009 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 0 hours, 44 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11929.46562253
1500 2010-11-18 19:24:19 xelister_ has joined
1501 2010-11-18 19:24:32 <FreeMoney> can't a much better estimator be written? For example, take the power of the network over the last month estimate with a second degree polynomial or something and determine how long it will take to get to complete the current 2016 set
1502 2010-11-18 19:25:01 <FreeMoney> there is no need to only use data from this set, and no need to assume power is constant or even linearly increasing
1503 2010-11-18 19:25:32 <ArtForz> the problem is the data is quite noisy
1504 2010-11-18 19:25:55 <FreeMoney> use a bunch of data?
1505 2010-11-18 19:28:50 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1506 2010-11-18 19:30:58 duck1123_ has joined
1507 2010-11-18 19:31:45 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1508 2010-11-18 19:31:45 duck1123_ is now known as duck1123
1509 2010-11-18 19:35:45 <Diablo-D3> hmm
1510 2010-11-18 19:35:51 <Diablo-D3> I have now removed the callback
1511 2010-11-18 19:38:07 <yebyen> hmm
1512 2010-11-18 19:39:32 <Kiba> a forum spilt
1513 2010-11-18 19:39:40 <Kiba> Project development
1514 2010-11-18 19:40:32 <nanotube> FreeMoney: you are of course welcome to give it a try. :) but the data is not very smooth at all... and even if you do manage to get some extra accuracy for the effort, the marginal value of it would probably be pretty low anyway
1515 2010-11-18 19:41:45 <FreeMoney> I might try, I agree it wouldn't help much in the middle of a set, but it could avoid spikes at the beginning and end like I see now
1516 2010-11-18 19:42:09 warner has joined
1517 2010-11-18 19:42:15 <FreeMoney> it isn't a super useful thing anyway, I'm not making decisions based on it or anything
1518 2010-11-18 19:42:45 <Kiba> lol
1519 2010-11-18 19:42:46 <brocktice> Exactly, so why bother?
1520 2010-11-18 19:42:48 <Kiba> in one forum sector
1521 2010-11-18 19:42:49 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1522 2010-11-18 19:42:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92745 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 2007 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 34 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10754.73555046
1523 2010-11-18 19:42:58 <Kiba> my posts made up 20% of the postings
1524 2010-11-18 19:42:59 <brocktice> Kiba: what's this?
1525 2010-11-18 19:43:26 <Kiba> forum sector: Project development
1526 2010-11-18 19:43:35 <Kiba> 20% of all posts belong to me
1527 2010-11-18 19:44:31 <nanotube> FreeMoney: right, it's just a 'curiosity' thing. :) though indeed, at the very beginning of a block chunk, it would be helpful to do some lookbehind, to avoid wide swings.
1528 2010-11-18 19:45:15 <Kiba> ;mtgox
1529 2010-11-18 19:45:52 <Diablo-D3> hey brocktice
1530 2010-11-18 19:45:53 <Diablo-D3> you here?
1531 2010-11-18 19:46:06 <nanotube> ;;bc,mtgox
1532 2010-11-18 19:46:06 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.29,"low":0.2221,"vol":48128,"buy":0.2545,"sell":0.281,"last":0.2809}}
1533 2010-11-18 19:46:08 <nanotube> Kiba: --^
1534 2010-11-18 19:46:37 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: yes
1535 2010-11-18 19:46:43 <brocktice> occasionally
1536 2010-11-18 19:46:48 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: I removed the event system
1537 2010-11-18 19:46:52 <Diablo-D3> so its a little more like m0's
1538 2010-11-18 19:47:25 <Kiba> about 6000 bitcoins were purchased at .28
1539 2010-11-18 19:47:47 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: so now it has a queue per execution, and each execution is in it's own thread
1540 2010-11-18 19:47:54 <Kiba> so, folks, that's a thousand dollars
1541 2010-11-18 19:47:55 <Diablo-D3> theres absolutely no way ATI can fuck this up now
1542 2010-11-18 19:48:03 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: jesus
1543 2010-11-18 19:48:07 <Kiba> 1680
1544 2010-11-18 19:48:08 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: you keep underestimating ATI
1545 2010-11-18 19:48:16 <Kiba> dollars at my estimation
1546 2010-11-18 19:48:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ;_;
1547 2010-11-18 19:48:28 <Diablo-D3> well, I see no change on my end
1548 2010-11-18 19:48:36 <Kiba> and MtGox only make 20 bucks
1549 2010-11-18 19:48:37 <Diablo-D3> so it didnt get worse
1550 2010-11-18 19:48:47 <Diablo-D3> X uses about 25% cpu, java uses about 85%
1551 2010-11-18 19:48:52 <nanotube> Kiba: which is better than before, when he made 0. :)
1552 2010-11-18 19:48:53 <Diablo-D3> thats pretty much where I was before this
1553 2010-11-18 19:49:16 <brocktice> I think it's good he's making money actually
1554 2010-11-18 19:49:19 <Kiba> given the volume that he everyday, I wouldn't be suprised if he make 50 bucks a day
1555 2010-11-18 19:49:22 <brocktice> I just hope it doesn't become a legal issue.
1556 2010-11-18 19:49:29 <Kiba> he doing everyday*
1557 2010-11-18 19:50:04 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: grab new http://adterrasperaspera.com/images/DiabloMiner-test.zip
1558 2010-11-18 19:50:35 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: hehe nice domain. yours?
1559 2010-11-18 19:50:36 <Kiba> 50 * 7 * 4 is 1400 dollars
1560 2010-11-18 19:50:41 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: yes
1561 2010-11-18 19:50:45 <OneFixt> Kiba: actually about 25,000 coins were purchased
1562 2010-11-18 19:50:50 <Diablo-D3> also
1563 2010-11-18 19:50:50 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: cute :)
1564 2010-11-18 19:50:57 <brocktice> wgetting
1565 2010-11-18 19:51:09 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: it means "into the ground through hardship"
1566 2010-11-18 19:51:11 <Kiba> OneFixt: I see.
1567 2010-11-18 19:51:20 <Diablo-D3> roughly anyways
1568 2010-11-18 19:51:21 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: yes i know. :) the opposite of ad astra per aspera :)
1569 2010-11-18 19:51:36 <Kiba> so, 39 bucks
1570 2010-11-18 19:51:50 <Kiba> not bad at all, in my opinion
1571 2010-11-18 19:51:55 <OneFixt> 45.5
1572 2010-11-18 19:51:56 <Diablo-D3> the upside, btw, is
1573 2010-11-18 19:52:00 <Diablo-D3> nvidia faggots can use my miner
1574 2010-11-18 19:52:09 <Diablo-D3> the downside is
1575 2010-11-18 19:52:10 <Diablo-D3> nvidia faggots can use my miner
1576 2010-11-18 19:52:15 <Kiba> lol.
1577 2010-11-18 19:52:17 <Diablo-D3> >_>
1578 2010-11-18 19:52:24 <OneFixt> or maybe even 90 if both buyers and sellers pay commissoin
1579 2010-11-18 19:52:26 <OneFixt> commission
1580 2010-11-18 19:52:27 <brocktice> starting
1581 2010-11-18 19:52:37 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: wait should I be using 2.1 now?
1582 2010-11-18 19:52:40 <Kiba> OneFixt: he's profiting from both side
1583 2010-11-18 19:52:42 <Kiba> bitcoins and dollars
1584 2010-11-18 19:52:43 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: try with 2.2
1585 2010-11-18 19:52:47 <Kiba> so he's accumlating bitcoins as well
1586 2010-11-18 19:52:48 <brocktice> ok trying that first
1587 2010-11-18 19:52:50 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: but 2.1 should work now
1588 2010-11-18 19:52:52 <nanotube> OneFixt: i'd be surprised if both sides weren't changed the commission.
1589 2010-11-18 19:53:04 <brocktice> Similar problem
1590 2010-11-18 19:53:08 <brocktice> slightly better performance
1591 2010-11-18 19:53:10 <brocktice> trying with 2.1
1592 2010-11-18 19:53:13 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: better? wtf!
1593 2010-11-18 19:53:29 <Diablo-D3> even when I write shit code, it gets faster!
1594 2010-11-18 19:53:32 <Diablo-D3> damn these hands!
1595 2010-11-18 19:53:41 <nanotube> haha
1596 2010-11-18 19:53:49 <Kiba> anyway, it's one step to making mtgox...one of the first to live on entirely currency exchanges
1597 2010-11-18 19:54:02 <Kiba> bitcoin currency exchanges fee
1598 2010-11-18 19:54:10 <nanotube> Kiba: i'm sure he has other income. :P
1599 2010-11-18 19:54:19 <Kiba> he probably does.
1600 2010-11-18 19:54:26 <brocktice> Well, I'm at 99% on all gpus now
1601 2010-11-18 19:54:31 <brocktice> but the hashrate sucks
1602 2010-11-18 19:54:31 <Kiba> 1400 dollars, chump change.
1603 2010-11-18 19:54:38 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: whats the hashrate?
1604 2010-11-18 19:54:39 <brocktice> and it's dropping
1605 2010-11-18 19:54:41 <Kiba> 1400 dollars every month
1606 2010-11-18 19:54:49 <brocktice> 920M and dropping
1607 2010-11-18 19:54:53 <Kiba> 16,800 dollars.
1608 2010-11-18 19:54:54 <brocktice> should be around 1320
1609 2010-11-18 19:54:56 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: thats top saying?
1610 2010-11-18 19:54:59 <Kiba> each year.
1611 2010-11-18 19:55:09 <brocktice> it started around 950M
1612 2010-11-18 19:55:11 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: er, whats top saying
1613 2010-11-18 19:55:19 <Kiba> a pure gravy train.
1614 2010-11-18 19:55:33 <brocktice> 93% idle
1615 2010-11-18 19:55:33 <ArtForz> Kiba: afair he said he lost ~5k to PP fraud
1616 2010-11-18 19:55:36 <brocktice> java's using around 14%
1617 2010-11-18 19:55:38 <brocktice> this is on 2.1
1618 2010-11-18 19:56:05 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: is it still dropping?
1619 2010-11-18 19:56:15 <brocktice> yep
1620 2010-11-18 19:56:16 <brocktice> 900M
1621 2010-11-18 19:56:28 <Diablo-D3> check the gpu meter, is it actually doing anything?
1622 2010-11-18 19:56:29 <Kiba> so, price dropping.
1623 2010-11-18 19:56:31 <Kiba> err
1624 2010-11-18 19:56:32 <Kiba> going up
1625 2010-11-18 19:56:40 <brocktice> 99% on all GPUs
1626 2010-11-18 19:56:49 <brocktice> Slowly going nowhere at great expense :)
1627 2010-11-18 19:57:10 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: and java cpu usage is low?
1628 2010-11-18 19:57:16 <brocktice> yep
1629 2010-11-18 19:57:18 <brocktice> 14%
1630 2010-11-18 19:57:19 <ArtForz> sounds like 2.1 alright
1631 2010-11-18 19:57:24 <Diablo-D3> huh.
1632 2010-11-18 19:57:28 <Diablo-D3> I wonder why.
1633 2010-11-18 19:57:39 <brocktice> it's asymptotically approaching 906M
1634 2010-11-18 19:57:43 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: and all 4 devices showed up right?
1635 2010-11-18 19:57:45 <brocktice> er, maybe 900M
1636 2010-11-18 19:57:48 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: yep
1637 2010-11-18 19:57:51 <brocktice> and all are being used
1638 2010-11-18 19:57:51 <Diablo-D3> huh.
1639 2010-11-18 19:57:52 <brocktice> poorly
1640 2010-11-18 19:57:53 <brocktice> :(
1641 2010-11-18 19:58:00 <brocktice> hashmeter broken?
1642 2010-11-18 19:58:04 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: do you run m0's with any weird settings?
1643 2010-11-18 19:58:06 <ArtForz> 2.1 needs the cl_media_iops trick
1644 2010-11-18 19:58:06 <Diablo-D3> like -w 64?
1645 2010-11-18 19:58:09 <brocktice> nope
1646 2010-11-18 19:58:15 <ArtForz> errr, cl_media_ops
1647 2010-11-18 19:58:20 <brocktice> Oh yeah it'll blow without that
1648 2010-11-18 19:58:31 <brocktice> killing it
1649 2010-11-18 19:58:37 <Diablo-D3> lemme roll another
1650 2010-11-18 19:59:46 <Diablo-D3> wait
1651 2010-11-18 19:59:51 <Diablo-D3> wouldnt cl_media_ops double speed?
1652 2010-11-18 19:59:56 <ArtForz> nope
1653 2010-11-18 19:59:59 <ArtForz> about x1.5
1654 2010-11-18 20:00:05 <Diablo-D3> whats 900 * 1.5?
1655 2010-11-18 20:00:20 <ArtForz> err... 1350 or so ?
1656 2010-11-18 20:00:21 <nanotube> ;;math calc 900*1.5
1657 2010-11-18 20:00:21 <gribble> 1350
1658 2010-11-18 20:00:23 <nanotube> :)
1659 2010-11-18 20:00:27 <Diablo-D3> huh
1660 2010-11-18 20:00:30 <nanotube> ArtForz: or so? :D
1661 2010-11-18 20:00:33 <Diablo-D3> that would make up for brocktice's missing speed
1662 2010-11-18 20:00:43 <ArtForz> yep
1663 2010-11-18 20:00:43 <brocktice> sounds right
1664 2010-11-18 20:00:57 <Diablo-D3> [02:47:26] <brocktice> should be around 1320
1665 2010-11-18 20:00:59 <Diablo-D3> and then some
1666 2010-11-18 20:01:11 <brocktice> well, that's fuzzy
1667 2010-11-18 20:01:16 <ArtForz> what core clk?
1668 2010-11-18 20:01:16 <brocktice> but that is the right neigborhood
1669 2010-11-18 20:01:20 <brocktice> 900 atm
1670 2010-11-18 20:01:23 <brocktice> going to bump it later today
1671 2010-11-18 20:01:30 <brocktice> and drop in that 5770
1672 2010-11-18 20:01:49 * Diablo-D3 rolls another
1673 2010-11-18 20:01:59 <Diablo-D3> I sound like Im doing drugs
1674 2010-11-18 20:02:01 <yebyen> Diablo-D3: you rollin another?
1675 2010-11-18 20:02:11 <yebyen> that's what i thought
1676 2010-11-18 20:02:17 <brocktice> stick that in your pipeline and smoke it!
1677 2010-11-18 20:02:17 * Diablo-D3 lights his blunt with a 100 btc bill
1678 2010-11-18 20:02:36 <Diablo-D3> go go gadget upload!
1679 2010-11-18 20:02:55 <ArtForz> my math says ~867M without bitalign, ~1328M with it
1680 2010-11-18 20:03:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: it would have probably eventually got there
1681 2010-11-18 20:03:58 slush_cz has joined
1682 2010-11-18 20:04:24 <Diablo-D3> jesus upload takes forever sometimes
1683 2010-11-18 20:06:59 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: grab new http://adterrasperaspera.com/images/DiabloMiner-test.zip
1684 2010-11-18 20:07:00 <nanotube> slush_cz: yea, this is where the action is. :)
1685 2010-11-18 20:07:10 <brocktice> go go gadget wget
1686 2010-11-18 20:07:22 <Diablo-D3> and hopefully I didnt screw it up
1687 2010-11-18 20:07:27 <Diablo-D3> since I cant test media ops
1688 2010-11-18 20:07:36 <Diablo-D3> wait
1689 2010-11-18 20:07:38 <Diablo-D3> I screwed it up
1690 2010-11-18 20:07:40 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit
1691 2010-11-18 20:07:44 * brocktice waits
1692 2010-11-18 20:08:05 <Diablo-D3> I forgot to rebuild the jar
1693 2010-11-18 20:08:23 * Diablo-D3 UPLOADS ANOTHER
1694 2010-11-18 20:09:00 <slush_cz> nanotube: Yes, I'm surprised how many people are here :)
1695 2010-11-18 20:09:11 <nanotube> heh
1696 2010-11-18 20:09:37 <nanotube> much more than -otc :)
1697 2010-11-18 20:12:06 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: try again
1698 2010-11-18 20:12:08 <slush_cz> Well, I'm not smart from sources. It is quite nice cpp, but it is *still* cpp.
1699 2010-11-18 20:13:09 <slush_cz> So I will try to ask here directly. I'm missing ability to send message together with payment. Missing it a lot.
1700 2010-11-18 20:13:09 <nanotube> slush_cz: well ask your question here maybe someone knows of some nice docs somewhere
1701 2010-11-18 20:13:26 <slush_cz> I read reason why it is not directly in block chain and got it.
1702 2010-11-18 20:13:30 <nanotube> slush_cz: not possible at the moment, if you use non-ip txns
1703 2010-11-18 20:14:53 <slush_cz> I have another idea - independent service (with open sources) with json interface (as client already has json libraries, it is not a new dependency) and possibility to send short encrypted messages (with transaction as key) over it.
1704 2010-11-18 20:15:57 <slush_cz> If there is a demand, I'm quite ready to do something for google app engine (for example). But it of course needs an integration with client to bring advantage for users.
1705 2010-11-18 20:15:58 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: stepped away, pulling now
1706 2010-11-18 20:16:52 <slush_cz> maybe many people here don't like google, but i feel GAE is good for this - free of charge, high uptimes etc
1707 2010-11-18 20:17:12 <Diablo-D3> gae?
1708 2010-11-18 20:17:12 <theymos> slush_cz: Bitcoin will never support any HTTPS stuff on Windows. So that's potentially a problem.
1709 2010-11-18 20:17:24 <slush_cz> google app engine
1710 2010-11-18 20:17:26 <brocktice> starting
1711 2010-11-18 20:17:32 <brocktice> oh that's an unfortunate acronym
1712 2010-11-18 20:17:58 <Kiba> how so?
1713 2010-11-18 20:18:06 <yebyen> try GAELYK
1714 2010-11-18 20:18:06 <brocktice> Come check out my gae app!
1715 2010-11-18 20:18:15 <Kiba> ah
1716 2010-11-18 20:18:15 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: looking better so far
1717 2010-11-18 20:18:22 <brocktice> hashrate is still settling
1718 2010-11-18 20:18:41 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: are ya doing it for the dollars or the btc, or both?
1719 2010-11-18 20:19:09 <slush_cz> theymos: It does not require https when messages will be encrypted itself
1720 2010-11-18 20:19:49 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: congrats, it appears to work
1721 2010-11-18 20:20:19 <wumpus> "Bitcoin will never support any HTTPS stuff on Windows" why not?
1722 2010-11-18 20:20:31 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: so whats the hashrate?
1723 2010-11-18 20:20:44 <brocktice> around 1.34G
1724 2010-11-18 20:20:47 <brocktice> dropping
1725 2010-11-18 20:20:53 <brocktice> I know you like your display ago better, but it's confusing
1726 2010-11-18 20:20:56 <theymos> wumpus: Problems with OpenSSL, I guess.
1727 2010-11-18 20:21:17 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: it displays actual
1728 2010-11-18 20:21:23 <wumpus> yeah, that could be, but i suppose if it is really 'never' there must be some other problem
1729 2010-11-18 20:21:24 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: it levels out after about 5 minutes give or take
1730 2010-11-18 20:21:35 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: alright
1731 2010-11-18 20:21:38 * brocktice sets timer
1732 2010-11-18 20:21:38 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: doing what?
1733 2010-11-18 20:21:53 <slush_cz> so simple message system where key will be tx num and decrypt key will be receiver's wallet ID should work?
1734 2010-11-18 20:22:13 <wumpus> but yeah I know doing ssl with the windows libraries is a pain :)
1735 2010-11-18 20:22:17 <slush_cz> Actually I'm not familiar with encryption used in bitcoin client, so I'm just musing
1736 2010-11-18 20:22:17 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1737 2010-11-18 20:22:59 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: the mining
1738 2010-11-18 20:23:30 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: It's total average, right?
1739 2010-11-18 20:23:33 <brocktice> Not instantaneous?
1740 2010-11-18 20:23:51 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: yes, since it started
1741 2010-11-18 20:23:59 <Diablo-D3> so it should smooth out all the noise
1742 2010-11-18 20:24:08 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: its also more accurate than m0's
1743 2010-11-18 20:24:10 <brocktice> I find instantaneous more useful because you can get feedback from tweaking clock speed and such
1744 2010-11-18 20:24:21 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but m0's can be inaccurate
1745 2010-11-18 20:24:21 <brocktice> 'instantaneous' meaning averaged over a certain, smaller time frame
1746 2010-11-18 20:24:34 <brocktice> Using my modified version of his I have it print every 5 minutes.
1747 2010-11-18 20:24:42 <brocktice> So it's a decent average
1748 2010-11-18 20:24:46 <theymos> slush_cz: The sender and receiver would have to share some additional data. Either a key for symmetric encryption or an additional public key. Bitcoin does no encryption at all -- the ECDSA authentication used for transactions doesn't support encryption.
1749 2010-11-18 20:24:54 <brocktice> 1.338 and dropping
1750 2010-11-18 20:25:50 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1751 2010-11-18 20:25:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92754 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 1998 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 56 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11975.31659756
1752 2010-11-18 20:25:59 <brocktice> ouuuch
1753 2010-11-18 20:26:12 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: well art thinks its around 1320
1754 2010-11-18 20:26:21 <brocktice> timer done
1755 2010-11-18 20:26:26 <brocktice> 1.336 and dropping
1756 2010-11-18 20:26:36 <ByteCoin> Theymos; You can actually do encryption
1757 2010-11-18 20:26:41 <brocktice> I'll wait a little longer
1758 2010-11-18 20:26:44 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: whats java and x usage looking like?
1759 2010-11-18 20:27:05 <brocktice> 17 and 1% respectively
1760 2010-11-18 20:27:16 <slush_cz> difficulty 6800 is tragedy for my 1000khash/s computer ;)
1761 2010-11-18 20:27:16 <theymos> ByteCoin: How? ECDSA doesn't support it.
1762 2010-11-18 20:27:25 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 1000
1763 2010-11-18 20:27:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 48 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 31 minutes, and 45 seconds
1764 2010-11-18 20:27:33 BCBot has joined
1765 2010-11-18 20:27:39 <nanotube> slush_cz: heh yea... a year minus 3 weeks
1766 2010-11-18 20:27:54 <ByteCoin> You use a different algorthm but thes ame keys
1767 2010-11-18 20:28:40 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: Congrats, this may be slightly faster than m0s
1768 2010-11-18 20:28:57 <slush_cz> nanotube: I'm running a miner currently, but it is just curiosity. I don't expect that I should find a block anymore :)
1769 2010-11-18 20:29:06 <theymos> ByteCoin: The algorithm would have to have the same key generation process. Otherwise you'd have to brute-force a private key that matches your public key.
1770 2010-11-18 20:29:38 <nanotube> slush_cz: heh yea... i'm not even running the gen. laptop... heat... all that. :)
1771 2010-11-18 20:29:41 <ByteCoin> theymos: I'm on the phone now but yes the keys are the essentially the same#
1772 2010-11-18 20:30:48 <slush_cz> theymos: ByteCoin: if you think it is possible to introduce encryption of messages in client and if somebody with enough voice in developer community will agree with messaging system I proposed, I'm ready to implement server side
1773 2010-11-18 20:31:06 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: it was slightly faster than m0's before
1774 2010-11-18 20:31:14 <Diablo-D3> I suspect its slightly faster than whats currently in gi
1775 2010-11-18 20:31:16 <Diablo-D3> *git
1776 2010-11-18 20:31:41 <ArtForz> so, wheres speed heading to?
1777 2010-11-18 20:31:52 <brocktice> 1.333 or so
1778 2010-11-18 20:31:59 <brocktice> not sure where it'll settle exactly it continues to drop
1779 2010-11-18 20:32:09 <ByteCoin> The magic words are ElGamal cryptosystem
1780 2010-11-18 20:32:16 <slush_cz> nanotube: I'm surprised a little bit. As I see on bitcoin-otc you are everytime selling quite large amount of bitcoins ;)
1781 2010-11-18 20:32:17 <ArtForz> not bad
1782 2010-11-18 20:32:39 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: also, you can always toy with -v and -w, but art seems to think the default is best
1783 2010-11-18 20:32:40 <brocktice> Yeah, now it needs to be modified to output to a log and read from a config file
1784 2010-11-18 20:32:45 <brocktice> then I'll like it better than my minerd.py :)
1785 2010-11-18 20:33:06 <Diablo-D3> heh, outputting to a log isn't that hard
1786 2010-11-18 20:33:08 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: BTW m0 has a way to detect SDK version etc
1787 2010-11-18 20:33:11 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: exactly
1788 2010-11-18 20:33:14 <nanotube> slush_cz: i myself only have a loan offer, and a buy offer... so i'm not selling really.
1789 2010-11-18 20:33:17 <Diablo-D3> but it'd be another dependency
1790 2010-11-18 20:33:21 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: so he doesn't need a special version
1791 2010-11-18 20:33:27 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: isn't there some java builtin logging class?
1792 2010-11-18 20:33:31 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: btw, his detection sucks
1793 2010-11-18 20:33:33 <ArtForz> 2*5970@900... gets ~1353 using my ocl miner
1794 2010-11-18 20:33:39 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: it breaks on radeon 4xxx
1795 2010-11-18 20:33:49 <brocktice> ArtForz: hrm
1796 2010-11-18 20:33:57 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: logging in the java sense isnt what you think it is
1797 2010-11-18 20:34:32 <brocktice> like in python I just instantiate a logger
1798 2010-11-18 20:34:36 <ArtForz> java, the wonderful language where logging isn't logging *ducks*
1799 2010-11-18 20:34:36 <brocktice> and then do log.debug(foo) or whatever
1800 2010-11-18 20:34:44 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: yeah, python copied java
1801 2010-11-18 20:34:54 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: but all that does, by default, is output to the screen
1802 2010-11-18 20:34:58 <brocktice> Oh
1803 2010-11-18 20:35:07 <Diablo-D3> so it'd do exactly what I do now
1804 2010-11-18 20:35:13 <brocktice> in the logging module you can include filename="whatever"
1805 2010-11-18 20:35:16 <brocktice> and it'll write to that instead
1806 2010-11-18 20:35:23 <Diablo-D3> yes, you can do that here
1807 2010-11-18 20:35:28 <Diablo-D3> but I have to switch over to logging to do it
1808 2010-11-18 20:35:40 <brocktice> Anyway I might take a look later
1809 2010-11-18 20:35:41 <Diablo-D3> its not that high on my priority list atm
1810 2010-11-18 20:35:47 <brocktice> I have (not great) java programming experience.
1811 2010-11-18 20:35:58 <brocktice> Mostly Android
1812 2010-11-18 20:36:03 <Diablo-D3> theres only like three or four sysouts in the entire app
1813 2010-11-18 20:36:22 <Diablo-D3> and I don't think I'll use JUL for this
1814 2010-11-18 20:36:28 <Diablo-D3> probably slf4j
1815 2010-11-18 20:36:56 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: try my miner :D
1816 2010-11-18 20:37:06 <brocktice> Why, his is faster?
1817 2010-11-18 20:37:16 <Diablo-D3> his theoretically is
1818 2010-11-18 20:37:24 <brocktice> no, in practice
1819 2010-11-18 20:37:35 <brocktice> I'm getting 1333 he gts 1353
1820 2010-11-18 20:37:44 <brocktice> 20mhash is nothing to sneeze at
1821 2010-11-18 20:38:08 <Diablo-D3> his cards are overclocked
1822 2010-11-18 20:38:09 <Diablo-D3> yours arent
1823 2010-11-18 20:38:15 <brocktice> yes, they are
1824 2010-11-18 20:38:18 <brocktice> same clock speed
1825 2010-11-18 20:38:19 <brocktice> 900
1826 2010-11-18 20:38:21 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
1827 2010-11-18 20:38:23 <brocktice> and my memory's clocked faster
1828 2010-11-18 20:38:29 <brocktice> he did that asl or whatever thing
1829 2010-11-18 20:38:38 <Diablo-D3> age sex location?!
1830 2010-11-18 20:38:44 * Diablo-D3 humps art's leg
1831 2010-11-18 20:38:48 <brocktice> cal
1832 2010-11-18 20:39:03 <Diablo-D3> I should download 2.1 sdk
1833 2010-11-18 20:39:05 <brocktice> 27/m/your mom's house
1834 2010-11-18 20:40:05 Maccer has joined
1835 2010-11-18 20:40:34 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 should theoretically be faster
1836 2010-11-18 20:40:46 <brocktice> and it won't rape your CPU
1837 2010-11-18 20:41:02 <brocktice> 1332
1838 2010-11-18 20:41:08 <ArtForz> nope
1839 2010-11-18 20:41:14 <ArtForz> 1353 is my ocl miner
1840 2010-11-18 20:41:27 <ArtForz> @ core 900, mem 1000
1841 2010-11-18 20:41:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hah fuck you
1842 2010-11-18 20:41:49 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: whats m0's get on your shit?
1843 2010-11-18 20:41:53 <ArtForz> no lcue
1844 2010-11-18 20:42:07 <Diablo-D3> I asked brock not you =p
1845 2010-11-18 20:42:40 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: 330.2/core right now
1846 2010-11-18 20:42:48 <brocktice> 1320.8
1847 2010-11-18 20:42:55 <Diablo-D3> so Im beating his
1848 2010-11-18 20:43:00 <brocktice> yeah that's what I said. :)
1849 2010-11-18 20:43:07 * Diablo-D3 WINS GODDAMNIT
1850 2010-11-18 20:43:09 * Diablo-D3 WINS
1851 2010-11-18 20:43:18 <ArtForz> my cal miner gets 1359
1852 2010-11-18 20:43:26 * Diablo-D3 PUNCHES ART
1853 2010-11-18 20:43:30 <Diablo-D3> WAAAGH
1854 2010-11-18 20:44:09 <ArtForz> theoretical peak is 1388.6
1855 2010-11-18 20:44:57 <Diablo-D3> trying 2.1 now
1856 2010-11-18 20:45:03 <Diablo-D3> holy jesus!
1857 2010-11-18 20:45:15 <Diablo-D3> >74
1858 2010-11-18 20:45:23 <ArtForz> like I said, 2.2 sucks
1859 2010-11-18 20:45:39 <Diablo-D3> what was the theoretical peak for mine?
1860 2010-11-18 20:46:04 <Diablo-D3> 75?
1861 2010-11-18 20:46:07 <ArtForz> 78.66
1862 2010-11-18 20:46:11 <Diablo-D3> meh
1863 2010-11-18 20:46:23 <ArtForz> assuming you leave out the first and last 3 rounds
1864 2010-11-18 20:46:30 <Diablo-D3> I do
1865 2010-11-18 20:46:34 <OneFixt> commission
1866 2010-11-18 20:46:36 <OneFixt> err
1867 2010-11-18 20:46:37 <Diablo-D3> so Im 6% short of peak
1868 2010-11-18 20:46:40 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1869 2010-11-18 20:46:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 92757 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 1995 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 9 hours, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11359.18642208
1870 2010-11-18 20:46:46 <ArtForz> yep
1871 2010-11-18 20:47:11 <Diablo-D3> meh
1872 2010-11-18 20:47:13 <ArtForz> oi, nice nextdiff estimate :P
1873 2010-11-18 20:47:14 <Diablo-D3> thats not bad at all
1874 2010-11-18 20:47:35 <brocktice> ArtForz: you mean it's wrong, or it's high?
1875 2010-11-18 20:47:37 * Diablo-D3 tries -w 64
1876 2010-11-18 20:47:46 <ArtForz> it's actually lower than mine
1877 2010-11-18 20:47:50 <Kiba> so 9847.49 dollars were exchanged today, according to bitcoincharts.com
1878 2010-11-18 20:48:04 <ArtForz> mine says ... 13279
1879 2010-11-18 20:48:32 <ArtForz> of course over 22 blocks you might as well roll some dice
1880 2010-11-18 20:48:46 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1881 2010-11-18 20:48:53 <Diablo-D3> I get around 74.3
1882 2010-11-18 20:49:13 <ArtForz> thats not too shabby
1883 2010-11-18 20:49:50 <ArtForz> mine got 90.4 on a 4870 ... should be about 75.3 on a 4850
1884 2010-11-18 20:50:08 mtgox has quit ()
1885 2010-11-18 20:52:12 <brocktice> 1331.7
1886 2010-11-18 20:52:30 <ArtForz> 31337?
1887 2010-11-18 20:52:40 <Diablo-D3> lol
1888 2010-11-18 20:53:56 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you know though
1889 2010-11-18 20:54:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: with 10.10 being slower than .9
1890 2010-11-18 20:54:16 <Diablo-D3> that could make up for that last smidgen
1891 2010-11-18 20:54:47 <brocktice> Yeah I'm using 10.10
1892 2010-11-18 20:54:57 <ArtForz> could be
1893 2010-11-18 20:55:42 <Diablo-D3> oh fuck yes
1894 2010-11-18 20:55:52 <Diablo-D3> -w 128 maaaaaaaay have it stuck at 75
1895 2010-11-18 20:55:58 <Diablo-D3> shit its slowing down
1896 2010-11-18 20:56:20 <ArtForz> haha </nelson>
1897 2010-11-18 20:56:36 <Diablo-D3> seems to be around 74.9
1898 2010-11-18 20:56:52 <slush_cz> theymos: ByteCoin Any progress?
1899 2010-11-18 20:57:08 <ByteCoin> What did I miss?
1900 2010-11-18 20:57:13 <ByteCoin> I have to gfo soon
1901 2010-11-18 20:57:16 <Diablo-D3> lets try with -w 64
1902 2010-11-18 20:57:24 <theymos> Progress with what?
1903 2010-11-18 20:57:33 <ByteCoin> slush were uou offering to code something?
1904 2010-11-18 20:57:36 <Diablo-D3> its... stable at around 75.1
1905 2010-11-18 20:57:45 <Diablo-D3> stableish
1906 2010-11-18 20:57:47 <slush_cz> I was talking about messaging for payments
1907 2010-11-18 20:58:04 <Diablo-D3> well, above 75.0 anyways
1908 2010-11-18 20:58:19 <ArtForz> I'd say thats good enough
1909 2010-11-18 20:58:20 <slush_cz> (21:23:20) slush_cz: theymos: ByteCoin: if you think it is possible to introduce encryption of messages in client and if somebody with enough voice in developer community will agree with messaging system I proposed, I'm ready to implement server side
1910 2010-11-18 20:58:21 <ByteCoin> To do this you have to be able to send non-standard transactions
1911 2010-11-18 20:58:33 <ArtForz> the only really interesting part is being fast on 5xxx
1912 2010-11-18 20:58:36 <ByteCoin> How do you do it server side?
1913 2010-11-18 20:58:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but it means basically I have the best miner ever
1914 2010-11-18 20:58:47 <slush_cz> ByteCoin: It is just implementation in client, no changes in protocol
1915 2010-11-18 20:58:50 <ByteCoin> I mean how do YOU do it?
1916 2010-11-18 20:58:51 <ArtForz> as 4xxx has crap efficiency anyways
1917 2010-11-18 20:58:56 <Diablo-D3> java is using 2% cpu, X is using 1%
1918 2010-11-18 20:59:11 <Diablo-D3> so Im 4.8% short of 100% efficiency
1919 2010-11-18 20:59:20 <ArtForz> yep, sdk 2.1 = teh awsum
1920 2010-11-18 20:59:25 <theymos> I doubt any sort of encryption will be included in Bitcoin in the near future. There are too many other things that need to be done.
1921 2010-11-18 20:59:41 * Diablo-D3 tries with vector
1922 2010-11-18 20:59:42 <ByteCoin> Are you familiar with gavinandressen's proposed interface point 3
1923 2010-11-18 20:59:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: vector doesnt work :<
1924 2010-11-18 20:59:57 <ArtForz> 2.1 has it's quirks, but beating the shit out of the GPU at nearly 0 cpu usage = win
1925 2010-11-18 21:00:02 <ByteCoin> It was in a thread about splitting wallet functionality
1926 2010-11-18 21:00:13 <slush_cz> ByteCoin: It was addressed to me? No, i'm not familiar with that. Any link?
1927 2010-11-18 21:00:23 <ByteCoin> He said, basically "Ok sounds good here's what you need to do"
1928 2010-11-18 21:00:39 <brocktice> Hey Diablo-D3: Address?
1929 2010-11-18 21:00:53 <Diablo-D3> 13SSDHnqwQVDoha7nVyKyr5Pj3Rpx1sDuN
1930 2010-11-18 21:01:12 <ByteCoin> slush: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1691.msg20729#msg20729
1931 2010-11-18 21:01:20 <brocktice> I'd send you more but I spent a lot of time debugging and putting up with your crap :)
1932 2010-11-18 21:01:23 <slush_cz> ByteCoin: thx
1933 2010-11-18 21:01:28 <ByteCoin> Does that work for you? It;'s actually point 2 rather than 3
1934 2010-11-18 21:01:40 <brocktice> If I keep using it I'll tithe now and then
1935 2010-11-18 21:02:00 * Diablo-D3 tries forcing vector to work
1936 2010-11-18 21:02:28 <ByteCoin> I am reverse engineering the network protocol so I can make a client that sends tranactions just by connecting to ports on the standard client. Do you see how that works?
1937 2010-11-18 21:03:01 <ByteCoin> Make a message in the tech part of the forum saying what you're going to do so we can chat about it
1938 2010-11-18 21:03:17 <ByteCoin> I've got to go now... That OK slush?
1939 2010-11-18 21:03:37 <ByteCoin> I can handle the ecryption side of things
1940 2010-11-18 21:03:45 <slush_cz> ByteCoin: I didn't catch relevancy of forum thread you posted with our discussion.
1941 2010-11-18 21:04:44 <slush_cz> ByteCoin: btw I'm interested in sending transaction to std client. Hope you will publish your work soon :)
1942 2010-11-18 21:04:48 <ByteCoin> Encrypted messages are nonstandard transactions
1943 2010-11-18 21:04:58 <ByteCoin> How do you intend to send them?
1944 2010-11-18 21:05:24 <slush_cz> ByteCoin: You probably didn't understand me. I propose independent message system. No changes in protocol.
1945 2010-11-18 21:05:29 <ByteCoin> You don't want to make massive changes to the standard client
1946 2010-11-18 21:05:43 <ByteCoin> Independent as in not in a transaction?
1947 2010-11-18 21:05:49 <slush_cz> Just ability to write message which is related to some transaction and stored somewhere else
1948 2010-11-18 21:06:04 <ByteCoin> Oh.... sorry.
1949 2010-11-18 21:06:13 <ByteCoin> Not interested at the moment...
1950 2010-11-18 21:06:30 <ByteCoin> Make a forum post and I'll let you know if I change my minf
1951 2010-11-18 21:06:34 <ByteCoin> Bywe
1952 2010-11-18 21:06:38 <slush_cz> ok, bye
1953 2010-11-18 21:06:48 <brucewagner> Hey Guys. I am working on http://bitcoinme.com as we speak. Anyone wanna give me feedback on any part of it? (It's still very much under construction.) bruce@brucewagner.com
1954 2010-11-18 21:07:31 <MacRohard> maybe make smoething that can send bitcoin transactions over email
1955 2010-11-18 21:07:48 <MacRohard> then people could just run endpoint email addresses to accept them
1956 2010-11-18 21:07:53 <brucewagner> there already are... mtgox.com and mybitcoin.com
1957 2010-11-18 21:07:56 <MacRohard> and funnel it into the rest of the net
1958 2010-11-18 21:08:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I assume 2.1 cant do vector math
1959 2010-11-18 21:08:15 <MacRohard> no i mean you'd email actual bitcoin transactions signed by your wallet key
1960 2010-11-18 21:08:33 <ArtForz> diablo: it can
1961 2010-11-18 21:08:50 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, I enable -v, and it says it failed to build with no error log
1962 2010-11-18 21:09:13 <ArtForz> you probably missed a cast somewhere, 2.1 is a bit more picky in that area than 2.2
1963 2010-11-18 21:09:43 <slush_cz> MacRohard: Email is not suitable for money transaction itself, just for notification about it; do you imagine an amount of lost bitcoins in spam folders? :)
1964 2010-11-18 21:09:44 <Diablo-D3> well I just spammed uintv everywhere
1965 2010-11-18 21:09:45 <Diablo-D3> and it still fails
1966 2010-11-18 21:09:59 <dsg> brucewagner: You say "Bitcoin usage and transactions are always free", which is not correct. There are transaction fees under certain circumstances.
1967 2010-11-18 21:10:22 <MacRohard> slush_cz, you'd always send the transactions to an email address that delivers them to the bitcoin network - not any individual. the messages already have the recipient in them.
1968 2010-11-18 21:10:53 <MacRohard> slush_cz, either it gets delivered, and eventually processed or it gets lost and you can resent it or not if you change your mind
1969 2010-11-18 21:11:52 <MacRohard> slush_cz, it would basically be a simple fairly easy to implement alternative for people writing light bitcoin clients that don't generate any blocks to use as a way to get their transactions posted
1970 2010-11-18 21:12:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: sharound's K, the first set of A through H and the 16 works, and the same for the second works and A through H and H +=
1971 2010-11-18 21:12:05 <ArtForz> but why email?
1972 2010-11-18 21:12:05 <slush_cz> brucewagner: I think you are doing right things. bitcoins need some evangelisation. I'm just curious to "spend them" section, which is currently the biggest paint of bitcoin ;)
1973 2010-11-18 21:12:16 <slush_cz> MacRohard: oh thanks for explanation
1974 2010-11-18 21:13:25 <Kiba> bbl
1975 2010-11-18 21:13:33 <Kiba> daily run, barefoot
1976 2010-11-18 21:14:49 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/6J4U3Wgr
1977 2010-11-18 21:14:54 <Diablo-D3> I dont think I see any missing casts
1978 2010-11-18 21:16:20 <ArtForz> humm, the shrs in R?
1979 2010-11-18 21:16:39 <Diablo-D3> shrs?
1980 2010-11-18 21:16:43 <ArtForz> >>
1981 2010-11-18 21:17:12 <Diablo-D3> nope
1982 2010-11-18 21:17:50 <ArtForz> does it work if you remove the whole H check?
1983 2010-11-18 21:18:17 <Diablo-D3> no
1984 2010-11-18 21:18:35 <ArtForz> humm, weird
1985 2010-11-18 21:18:50 <Diablo-D3> lets try commenting it all out
1986 2010-11-18 21:19:17 <Diablo-D3> about 9.2 ghash/sec >_>
1987 2010-11-18 21:19:39 * Diablo-D3 moves it to below H
1988 2010-11-18 21:19:45 <Diablo-D3> nope that works
1989 2010-11-18 21:19:54 <Diablo-D3> below work...
1990 2010-11-18 21:19:59 <Diablo-D3> works
1991 2010-11-18 21:20:09 <ArtForz> the ns assignment?
1992 2010-11-18 21:20:18 <Diablo-D3> yup
1993 2010-11-18 21:20:27 <Diablo-D3> lets try below firts sharound
1994 2010-11-18 21:20:36 <Diablo-D3> works
1995 2010-11-18 21:20:54 <Diablo-D3> lets try first set of sharo.... fails
1996 2010-11-18 21:21:06 <Diablo-D3> first 16 sharounds...
1997 2010-11-18 21:21:08 <Diablo-D3> works
1998 2010-11-18 21:21:10 <ArtForz> okay....
1999 2010-11-18 21:21:15 <ArtForz> so
2000 2010-11-18 21:21:18 <Diablo-D3> first R...
2001 2010-11-18 21:21:23 <Diablo-D3> fail
2002 2010-11-18 21:21:36 <Diablo-D3> /tmp/OCLrt6OmY.cl(67): error: mixed vector-scalar operation not allowed unless
2003 2010-11-18 21:21:36 <Diablo-D3> up-convertable(scalar-type=>vector-element-type)
2004 2010-11-18 21:21:42 <Diablo-D3> it actually spit an error out this time
2005 2010-11-18 21:22:17 <Diablo-D3> ahh missed one
2006 2010-11-18 21:22:27 <ArtForz> missed the 2nd >> ?
2007 2010-11-18 21:22:43 <Diablo-D3> no first
2008 2010-11-18 21:22:50 <ArtForz> same difference
2009 2010-11-18 21:23:08 <Diablo-D3> I wonder which uintvs I can remove now
2010 2010-11-18 21:23:21 <ArtForz> trial+error
2011 2010-11-18 21:23:25 <Diablo-D3> yup
2012 2010-11-18 21:23:35 <Diablo-D3> .... none.
2013 2010-11-18 21:23:43 <Diablo-D3> cant remove from H +=
2014 2010-11-18 21:24:07 <Diablo-D3> work seems to work though
2015 2010-11-18 21:24:36 <Diablo-D3> so does A through H
2016 2010-11-18 21:24:41 brucewagner has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2017 2010-11-18 21:27:12 <Diablo-D3> have to keep K
2018 2010-11-18 21:27:14 <Diablo-D3> er
2019 2010-11-18 21:27:16 <Diablo-D3> in sharound
2020 2010-11-18 21:27:49 <brocktice> 1330.8
2021 2010-11-18 21:28:38 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/6Ha4Rf7b
2022 2010-11-18 21:28:42 <Diablo-D3> I dont see any leftovers
2023 2010-11-18 21:29:00 <ArtForz> no rightunders either
2024 2010-11-18 21:29:40 slush_cz has left ()
2025 2010-11-18 21:36:06 <brocktice> So if one charges transaction fees when generating, then you only get transactions where people have agreed to them?
2026 2010-11-18 21:36:31 <brocktice> And the generated blocks are considered valid even though they don't contain all the most recent transactions?
2027 2010-11-18 21:37:18 <theymos> Right.
2028 2010-11-18 21:37:38 <gavinandresen> brocktice: you can't "charge" transaction fees when generating. You just collect the fees from the transactions you include in blocks you generate...
2029 2010-11-18 21:37:47 <brocktice> gavinandresen: right right
2030 2010-11-18 21:38:09 <brocktice> but by setting a certain tx fee, you only will include transactions with that fee or higher, right?
2031 2010-11-18 21:38:15 <gavinandresen> Right
2032 2010-11-18 21:38:25 <brocktice> Interesting.
2033 2010-11-18 21:38:37 <gavinandresen> Uhh... only if you have compiled your own custom client, though
2034 2010-11-18 21:38:44 <brocktice> I'm just trying to think out in the future when the btc payouts are higher.
2035 2010-11-18 21:38:49 <brocktice> *lower
2036 2010-11-18 21:38:54 <brocktice> how it's all going to play out
2037 2010-11-18 21:39:23 <gavinandresen> You mean when it goes from 50BTC per block to 25?
2038 2010-11-18 21:39:30 <brocktice> yeah or less
2039 2010-11-18 21:39:33 <brocktice> but that's years and yeras
2040 2010-11-18 21:39:35 <brocktice> *years
2041 2010-11-18 21:39:39 <brocktice> wtf, fingers?
2042 2010-11-18 21:40:22 <brocktice> Bitcoin is really fun to watch in terms of hands-on economics learning.
2043 2010-11-18 21:40:31 <gavinandresen> It'll be interesting to see what happens!
2044 2010-11-18 21:40:35 <brocktice> Part of what motivated me to get involved.
2045 2010-11-18 21:40:54 <brocktice> It's a lot easier to try one's hand at speculation than in standard stock markets or whatever with gatekeepers.
2046 2010-11-18 21:41:02 <brocktice> among other things
2047 2010-11-18 21:41:02 <gavinandresen> Hopefully before that happens we can get some professional economists to predict what they think will happen. Would be a really good real-world experiment...
2048 2010-11-18 21:41:17 <brocktice> I know a professional economist or three.
2049 2010-11-18 21:41:27 <brocktice> One is way too busy but I should try to get some others involved.
2050 2010-11-18 21:41:34 <brocktice> might help with Wikipedia too
2051 2010-11-18 21:41:47 <gavinandresen> (fewer generators? generators start refusing free transactions? I know a couple of academic economists, too....)
2052 2010-11-18 21:42:54 <gavinandresen> Yeah, an academic article on "The Bitcoin Economy" would be great.
2053 2010-11-18 21:44:17 <Kiba> brocktice: not even a fanatasy stock market, but a real one!
2054 2010-11-18 21:44:46 <brocktice> Kiba: yep
2055 2010-11-18 21:45:07 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2056 2010-11-18 21:46:52 <brocktice> ;;bc,estimate
2057 2010-11-18 21:46:53 <gribble> 10839.18030193
2058 2010-11-18 21:49:00 <AAA_awright> How does a fantasy stock market manage to work anything like a real one, anyways?
2059 2010-11-18 21:49:26 <brocktice> AAA_awright: I guess you just assume you don't move the market significantly
2060 2010-11-18 21:49:31 <brocktice> and then it's like fantasy sports
2061 2010-11-18 21:50:00 <brocktice> You say, "I'm pretending I'm buying 100 shares of company BARX today at the current price."
2062 2010-11-18 21:50:04 <brocktice> And then see how you do.
2063 2010-11-18 21:50:45 <AAA_awright> Each transaction pretty greatly affects the future, I guess it's unpredictable enough it doesn't matter to your strategy
2064 2010-11-18 21:53:33 <Kiba> hmm
2065 2010-11-18 21:53:36 <Kiba> microcorporation
2066 2010-11-18 21:53:55 <Kiba> companies formed without the sancition of the state and based totally on only trust
2067 2010-11-18 21:54:08 <Kiba> totally anonymous shareholders
2068 2010-11-18 21:55:20 <brocktice> Speaking of, bitcoin seems like the kind of thing that might be involved in Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong.
2069 2010-11-18 21:56:04 <Kiba> physical anarchist enclave
2070 2010-11-18 21:56:12 <Kiba> well
2071 2010-11-18 21:56:22 <Kiba> I got an idea for kibabase, which is an arcade of some sort
2072 2010-11-18 21:56:40 <Kiba> it would be a city, complete with its own economy
2073 2010-11-18 21:56:54 <Kiba> but it's online
2074 2010-11-18 21:57:03 <brocktice> you mean, like cybertown?
2075 2010-11-18 21:57:06 <Kiba> yes.
2076 2010-11-18 21:57:24 <brocktice> oh wow, it still exists
2077 2010-11-18 21:57:29 <brocktice> with the same horrible graphics
2078 2010-11-18 21:58:07 <Kiba> than, I guess kibabase and other virtual cities would be a precursor to physical enclaves
2079 2010-11-18 21:59:10 <Kiba> it's a game, with games inside it, and games inside it, and games inside it...
2080 2010-11-18 22:02:36 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: 1330.5 and dropping very slowly
2081 2010-11-18 22:05:00 <AAA_awright> A p2p Second Life?
2082 2010-11-18 22:05:26 <Kiba> AAA_awright: more like a business than a p2p Second Life.
2083 2010-11-18 22:05:34 <Kiba> I run an arcade.
2084 2010-11-18 22:06:17 <Kiba> but, open sourcing the whole thing will allow cybertowns to proliberate
2085 2010-11-18 22:06:40 <jgarzik> Kiba: You really need to read _Daemon_ and it's sequel, _Freedom_
2086 2010-11-18 22:07:03 <Kiba> until it IS a p2p Second Life
2087 2010-11-18 22:07:05 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: This is supposed to output something when it finds a block, right?
2088 2010-11-18 22:07:08 <Kiba> assuming that other operators are not assholes
2089 2010-11-18 22:07:16 <AAA_awright> good luck :)
2090 2010-11-18 22:07:17 <AAA_awright> :p
2091 2010-11-18 22:07:19 <AAA_awright> hmm
2092 2010-11-18 22:07:46 <Kiba> youo would have this vast untaxed economy
2093 2010-11-18 22:08:25 <Kiba> no central control
2094 2010-11-18 22:09:55 <Diablo-D3> back
2095 2010-11-18 22:09:57 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: yes
2096 2010-11-18 22:10:07 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: btw, I made it a tad faster
2097 2010-11-18 22:10:09 <brocktice> Hm
2098 2010-11-18 22:10:18 <brocktice> because I tried it on testnet
2099 2010-11-18 22:10:21 <brocktice> and it wasn't outputting anything
2100 2010-11-18 22:10:29 <ArtForz> you made a fad taster?
2101 2010-11-18 22:10:48 <brocktice> at least, not anything about found blocks
2102 2010-11-18 22:11:13 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: you SURE you're on test network?
2103 2010-11-18 22:11:29 <brocktice> yeah let me try it again for a few minutes
2104 2010-11-18 22:11:37 <ArtForz> what client version?
2105 2010-11-18 22:11:43 <brocktice> "testnet" : true,
2106 2010-11-18 22:11:57 <brocktice> 181
2107 2010-11-18 22:12:03 <brocktice> works with my miner
2108 2010-11-18 22:12:08 <brocktice> ah there we go
2109 2010-11-18 22:12:11 <ArtForz> should be ok
2110 2010-11-18 22:12:17 <brocktice> it's just taking longer than the other day
2111 2010-11-18 22:12:22 <brocktice> but testnet difficulty is up
2112 2010-11-18 22:12:25 * Diablo-D3 tries with v
2113 2010-11-18 22:13:15 <brocktice> It found one
2114 2010-11-18 22:13:20 <brocktice> but it's still not finding them as fast as m0's
2115 2010-11-18 22:13:26 <Diablo-D3> Started at Nov 18, 2010 5:04:44 PM
2116 2010-11-18 22:13:26 <Diablo-D3> Block 1 found on ATI RV770 at 5:04:54 PM
2117 2010-11-18 22:13:28 <Diablo-D3> teehee
2118 2010-11-18 22:14:27 <brocktice> something is not quite right
2119 2010-11-18 22:14:40 <Diablo-D3> -v 2 is slower yeargh
2120 2010-11-18 22:15:05 btcex_com has joined
2121 2010-11-18 22:15:27 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: well, if you discover something wrong, tell me immediately
2122 2010-11-18 22:15:33 <Diablo-D3> because as far as I know, Ive coded shit right
2123 2010-11-18 22:15:38 <brocktice> It found one
2124 2010-11-18 22:15:40 <brocktice> and then stopped
2125 2010-11-18 22:15:54 <brocktice> it should have found several by the time I gave up
2126 2010-11-18 22:16:08 <ArtForz> hrrm... I don't see testnet block count going up at all
2127 2010-11-18 22:16:39 <ArtForz> oh, wait, the blocks ~22:03 UTC?
2128 2010-11-18 22:16:50 <brocktice> thereabouts
2129 2010-11-18 22:16:55 <brocktice> m0's found several
2130 2010-11-18 22:16:59 <brocktice> then I found one with Diablo's
2131 2010-11-18 22:17:13 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: remember, mine works differently than m0's
2132 2010-11-18 22:17:19 <ArtForz> http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/testnet/bbe/
2133 2010-11-18 22:17:20 <Diablo-D3> you could very well end up with clusters of them
2134 2010-11-18 22:17:48 <brocktice> how?
2135 2010-11-18 22:18:01 <ArtForz> well, at that diff you should find blocks quite quickly
2136 2010-11-18 22:18:19 <Diablo-D3> to reduce locking overhead, I use multiple works
2137 2010-11-18 22:19:05 <ArtForz> at diff 5.33 and 1.33Gh/s you should ifnd a block every 17 sec on avg ...
2138 2010-11-18 22:19:20 <Diablo-D3> every 17? wtf
2139 2010-11-18 22:19:25 <ArtForz> yep
2140 2010-11-18 22:19:41 <brocktice> yeah that was not happening
2141 2010-11-18 22:19:49 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: is it happening on m0's?
2142 2010-11-18 22:19:53 <brocktice> yep
2143 2010-11-18 22:20:04 <brocktice> though I'm back on the regular network now
2144 2010-11-18 22:20:10 <brocktice> glad I checked
2145 2010-11-18 22:20:17 <ArtForz> yeah, he got 6 blocks in 90 seconds
2146 2010-11-18 22:20:25 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: have you gotten more than 1 with yours, ever?
2147 2010-11-18 22:20:28 <brocktice> In a single run?
2148 2010-11-18 22:20:30 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: yeah
2149 2010-11-18 22:20:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how much should I get with 75?
2150 2010-11-18 22:20:51 <Diablo-D3> the most delicious 75
2151 2010-11-18 22:20:55 <brocktice> just divide
2152 2010-11-18 22:21:18 <brocktice> 0 in that time frame
2153 2010-11-18 22:21:21 <ArtForz> one every 5 min
2154 2010-11-18 22:21:41 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: do me favor
2155 2010-11-18 22:21:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: look at the line that starts with long G in git
2156 2010-11-18 22:21:57 <Diablo-D3> in the host code
2157 2010-11-18 22:22:05 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if I have endian backwards
2158 2010-11-18 22:22:42 <ArtForz> sec
2159 2010-11-18 22:22:57 astaroth has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2160 2010-11-18 22:23:06 <Diablo-D3> I know my json parse code is right
2161 2010-11-18 22:24:16 <ArtForz> hrrrm
2162 2010-11-18 22:25:05 <Diablo-D3> no, it has to be right
2163 2010-11-18 22:25:11 <Diablo-D3> because I generated testnet blocks with it
2164 2010-11-18 22:25:42 <ArtForz> didnt you remove the G check for those?
2165 2010-11-18 22:26:14 <ArtForz> if currentWork.target[6] the right way around?
2166 2010-11-18 22:26:33 <Diablo-D3> no, I know that one is correct
2167 2010-11-18 22:26:54 <Diablo-D3> java parses as big endian always, bitcoin getwork outputs as little endian (at least, on little endian hardware)
2168 2010-11-18 22:27:03 <Diablo-D3> so I flip that correctly
2169 2010-11-18 22:27:11 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2170 2010-11-18 22:27:37 <ArtForz> sha output is big endian, bitcoin reads it as a little endian number
2171 2010-11-18 22:27:40 <Diablo-D3> and that code worked with G check in opencl
2172 2010-11-18 22:27:57 <ArtForz> hrrrm
2173 2010-11-18 22:28:10 <Diablo-D3> Im flipping sha output back to little endian on output
2174 2010-11-18 22:28:18 <ArtForz> yea
2175 2010-11-18 22:28:46 <ArtForz> so in java after the hash it's "correct" endian
2176 2010-11-18 22:28:54 <Diablo-D3> yes
2177 2010-11-18 22:28:56 <Diablo-D3> but the question is
2178 2010-11-18 22:29:02 <Diablo-D3> is my assembly of G correct
2179 2010-11-18 22:29:15 <ArtForz> sec
2180 2010-11-18 22:29:17 <brocktice> So, it found one block just fine
2181 2010-11-18 22:29:24 <brocktice> The question is, what could cause it to hang up after that?
2182 2010-11-18 22:29:39 <ArtForz> okay, so the check is prolly ok
2183 2010-11-18 22:31:01 Maccer has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2184 2010-11-18 22:31:53 <ArtForz> so, it prints Block ... found on ... ?
2185 2010-11-18 22:32:14 <Diablo-D3> yes
2186 2010-11-18 22:32:23 <ArtForz> brocktice: I dont see that block on TEST BBE
2187 2010-11-18 22:32:39 <ArtForz> also not on my test node
2188 2010-11-18 22:33:21 <Diablo-D3> wtf
2189 2010-11-18 22:33:24 <Diablo-D3> mines stopping at 1
2190 2010-11-18 22:33:28 <brocktice> Block 1 found on Cypress at 4:04:44 PM
2191 2010-11-18 22:33:30 <brocktice> that's what it said
2192 2010-11-18 22:33:37 <Diablo-D3> Block 1 found on ATI RV770 at 5:20:15 PM
2193 2010-11-18 22:33:39 <brocktice> BTW, I prefer it to say which GPU it was
2194 2010-11-18 22:33:44 <brocktice> so I can watch for anomalies
2195 2010-11-18 22:33:47 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: thats AMD's fault
2196 2010-11-18 22:33:52 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt differenciate names
2197 2010-11-18 22:33:52 <ArtForz> oh great, TX flood on main again
2198 2010-11-18 22:33:56 <brocktice> you can number them
2199 2010-11-18 22:34:07 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: at some point in the future
2200 2010-11-18 22:34:12 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: sure
2201 2010-11-18 22:34:13 <brocktice> first things first
2202 2010-11-18 22:35:00 Maccer has joined
2203 2010-11-18 22:36:49 btcex_com has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2204 2010-11-18 22:38:28 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: I wonder if 2.1 is fubar somewhere
2205 2010-11-18 22:39:37 <jgarzik> the flood looks like the 'to' and 'from' addresses are the same... interesting
2206 2010-11-18 22:40:27 <jgarzik> I wonder if the flood-er is trying to stress-test a large number of transactions with the same address, ie. the same coin moving hundreds or thousands of times
2207 2010-11-18 22:40:48 <ArtForz> looks like a simple sendtoaddr own_addr 0.06 loop
2208 2010-11-18 22:41:04 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin should reject transactions that send to yourself
2209 2010-11-18 22:41:10 <ArtForz> we had plenty of these already
2210 2010-11-18 22:41:58 <ArtForz> shouldnt affect my miner or m0s latest in the slightest
2211 2010-11-18 22:42:03 * Diablo-D3 does safety test and turns G test off
2212 2010-11-18 22:44:25 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: sanity test time
2213 2010-11-18 22:44:38 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: take my normal miner and run it on the test net
2214 2010-11-18 22:51:04 <theymos> FreeMoney discovered that the transaction spammer is using coins that were donated to him...\the OP of this thread: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1835.0
2215 2010-11-18 22:53:29 <anarchyx> wow 6866 difficulty
2216 2010-11-18 22:53:48 <anarchyx> what difficulty will 0.24 cents/kwh no longer be profitable on a 5970?
2217 2010-11-18 22:53:57 <ArtForz> WAY higher
2218 2010-11-18 22:54:01 <anarchyx> x10?
2219 2010-11-18 22:54:07 <ArtForz> roughly
2220 2010-11-18 22:54:25 <anarchyx> curious to see if its still gonna increase now
2221 2010-11-18 22:55:16 <anarchyx> i mean x10 if its double every 2 weeks is only 2-3 months away
2222 2010-11-18 22:56:46 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure it'll slow down considerably before
2223 2010-11-18 22:56:51 <FreeMoney> price is likely to move up inside of 2-3 months....
2224 2010-11-18 22:57:04 <ArtForz> possibly
2225 2010-11-18 22:57:17 <ArtForz> or price might drop < 0.10 again
2226 2010-11-18 22:58:12 <FreeMoney> quick sell now
2227 2010-11-18 22:58:15 <FreeMoney> :)
2228 2010-11-18 22:58:33 <ArtForz> nah, I'm waiting for at least parity
2229 2010-11-18 23:05:29 <theymos> If Bitcoin ever reaches parity with USD, it will almost certainly greatly exceed it eventually.
2230 2010-11-18 23:07:03 * jgarzik predicts: (1) bitcoin with reach and exceed USD parity, (2) bitcoin will be volatile vis a vis national currencies for most of its lifetime
2231 2010-11-18 23:07:22 <ArtForz> who said USD? ;)
2232 2010-11-18 23:09:21 <theymos> jgarzik: Or fiat currencies will be volatile in relation to BTC...
2233 2010-11-18 23:10:14 hippich_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2234 2010-11-18 23:11:15 <FreeMoney> parity with gold Art? :)
2235 2010-11-18 23:11:29 <ArtForz> yep
2236 2010-11-18 23:13:01 <FreeMoney> Well, I try not to get too excited, but this is pretty much the only way I'm going to be able to own a gold plated yacht
2237 2010-11-18 23:13:30 Akiraa has joined
2238 2010-11-18 23:13:36 <ArtForz> hehehe
2239 2010-11-18 23:14:22 <FreeMoney> how many times larger is a block with 100 transactions than one with just a generate? roughly?
2240 2010-11-18 23:14:50 <ArtForz> the block header is only 80 bytes
2241 2010-11-18 23:14:54 <theymos> Depends on the size of the transaction. The average transaction is about 200 bytes.
2242 2010-11-18 23:15:18 <ArtForz> so... about 70x or so
2243 2010-11-18 23:15:27 <FreeMoney> ok
2244 2010-11-18 23:15:27 <theymos> A transaction with one input and one output is ~90 bytes, I think.
2245 2010-11-18 23:15:36 <ArtForz> thats way too small
2246 2010-11-18 23:16:04 <FreeMoney> why are transaction from an address back to itself permitted?
2247 2010-11-18 23:16:19 <ArtForz> no clue, but why not?
2248 2010-11-18 23:16:20 <theymos> It's useful if you want to break up some money.
2249 2010-11-18 23:16:26 <theymos> Or combine some money.
2250 2010-11-18 23:16:53 <FreeMoney> oh, duh
2251 2010-11-18 23:17:08 <FreeMoney> just thinking about this joker spamming the .06 I gave him
2252 2010-11-18 23:17:12 <ArtForz> and it's not like spamming a->b->a->b is a lot harder
2253 2010-11-18 23:17:20 <ArtForz> he'll slow down soon enough
2254 2010-11-18 23:17:21 <FreeMoney> yeah
2255 2010-11-18 23:17:36 <FreeMoney> don't you think he wrote a script?
2256 2010-11-18 23:17:40 <ArtForz> yea
2257 2010-11-18 23:17:46 <FreeMoney> why will he slow?
2258 2010-11-18 23:17:58 <ArtForz> without restarting bitcoin those TX stay in memory
2259 2010-11-18 23:18:13 <FreeMoney> ha
2260 2010-11-18 23:18:26 <ArtForz> my TEST node was using ~1.5GB after a few k TX
2261 2010-11-18 23:18:40 <ArtForz> then it died
2262 2010-11-18 23:18:46 <FreeMoney> but then he just restarts and goes again?
2263 2010-11-18 23:18:58 <ArtForz> and again, a lot slower than before
2264 2010-11-18 23:19:26 <ArtForz> notice how long a wallet flush takes once you have a few k TX in there?
2265 2010-11-18 23:19:47 <ArtForz> you'll need to start with a fresh wallet once every 5k TX or so
2266 2010-11-18 23:20:08 <FreeMoney> I noticed the wallet I use a lot is bigger than the one I don't use often
2267 2010-11-18 23:20:18 <FreeMoney> but I haven't "flushed"
2268 2010-11-18 23:20:40 <FreeMoney> ah, don't have 400 tx yet
2269 2010-11-18 23:20:59 <ArtForz> my current TEST wallet has 6k TX and it's 11MB
2270 2010-11-18 23:21:17 <ArtForz> sending a TX already takes ~ 1s with that one
2271 2010-11-18 23:21:46 <ArtForz> and it seems to exhibit exponential slowdown like properties
2272 2010-11-18 23:22:03 <theymos> Bitcoin should remove heavily-confirmed transactions from the wallet.
2273 2010-11-18 23:22:50 <ArtForz> I wonder how spammy one could get with a lighter client
2274 2010-11-18 23:23:18 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: did your test wallet have gazillions of small, unspent coins in it?
2275 2010-11-18 23:23:26 <ArtForz> nope
2276 2010-11-18 23:23:39 <gavinandresen> Weird. I haven't seen any problems with the Faucet's 80+MB wallet.
2277 2010-11-18 23:24:00 <ArtForz> with a fresh wallet a send takes ~0.2s
2278 2010-11-18 23:24:14 <ArtForz> with this one it's already ~1s
2279 2010-11-18 23:24:55 <ArtForz> so... how long does it take for the json call to return for you?
2280 2010-11-18 23:25:30 <gavinandresen> I just tested a Faucet send-to-self (txid 179e7fa13691077eae325ce1ea858e7bb9d2cf3010ce75921194293fbd5a33fd) and it is much less than 1 second.
2281 2010-11-18 23:25:45 <gavinandresen> Faucet wallet is 53MB right now (not 80, I remembered wrong)
2282 2010-11-18 23:25:58 <ArtForz> weird
2283 2010-11-18 23:26:12 <ArtForz> mgiht have something to do with the box it's on
2284 2010-11-18 23:26:42 <ArtForz> my box running TEST is only a old A-XP w/ 2G ram
2285 2010-11-18 23:26:48 <gavinandresen> Might. The Faucet runs on a very low-end VPS box; the TEST Faucet runs on the same box (and is generating using one CPU)
2286 2010-11-18 23:28:14 <gavinandresen> 2G aught to be plenty. The Faucet VPS machine has only 512MB!
2287 2010-11-18 23:28:44 <ArtForz> then i f*ing don't know whats wrong with my test node
2288 2010-11-18 23:29:15 <gavinandresen> Kick it a couple of times, maybe it'll get faster ....
2289 2010-11-18 23:29:55 <theymos> Maybe the wallet happened to become fragmented on the disk when it grew.
2290 2010-11-18 23:30:29 <gavinandresen> theymos: RE: removing old transactions: databases are really good at ignoring old data. And disk space is getting ever cheaper; in my experience, it's not worth trying to optimize for space.
2291 2010-11-18 23:31:17 <jgarzik> does bitcoin touch old transactions periodically, e.g. such as to check and see if they need resending?
2292 2010-11-18 23:31:27 <jgarzik> iterating through old transactions can be painful for cache effects
2293 2010-11-18 23:31:34 <jgarzik> s/touch/read/
2294 2010-11-18 23:31:38 <ArtForz> I dont think so
2295 2010-11-18 23:31:53 <ArtForz> it only checks TX that havent made it into a block... but how does it determine that...
2296 2010-11-18 23:32:39 <gavinandresen> It stores them in mapOrphanTransactions
2297 2010-11-18 23:32:56 <jgarzik> ResendWalletTransactions() seems to build a map of all transactions, in RAM, yes?
2298 2010-11-18 23:33:18 <gavinandresen> Yes, that is what mapOrphanTransactions is.
2299 2010-11-18 23:33:37 <jgarzik> no, mapSorted
2300 2010-11-18 23:34:12 <gavinandresen> Hmm? mapSorted is built on-the-fly
2301 2010-11-18 23:34:55 <gavinandresen> Ah, but you're right, it iterates through all of mapWallet looking for un-sent txns
2302 2010-11-18 23:35:05 <jgarzik> Right. That's my point... periodically, bitcoin reads all wallet TX's no matter how old into RAM, and sorts them. Therefore, your database is not ignoring old data, it's periodically scanning the entire db.
2303 2010-11-18 23:35:11 <ArtForz> yep
2304 2010-11-18 23:35:19 <gavinandresen> mapWallet is already in ram.
2305 2010-11-18 23:35:23 <ArtForz> bad data access pattern
2306 2010-11-18 23:35:43 <gavinandresen> (unless you mean swapped out to disk)
2307 2010-11-18 23:41:06 <jgarzik> I thought it scanned the db; didn't know that mapWallet kept an index of all TX's in RAM at all times.
2308 2010-11-18 23:42:35 <gavinandresen> It's not all transactions, just transactions to or from you...
2309 2010-11-18 23:43:36 <gavinandresen> If it has to find a transaction that is not to or from you, then it has to hit blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat to find the transaction/block.
2310 2010-11-18 23:43:36 <jgarzik> nod, all wallet TX's
2311 2010-11-18 23:44:01 <jgarzik> which could be quite a lot locked in RAM, if you're doing testing
2312 2010-11-18 23:44:34 <jgarzik> but since it's all in RAM, it's irrelevant to the previous database discussion...
2313 2010-11-18 23:44:48 <gavinandresen> Yeah, but I think Satoshi was implementing for the "run on a PC and send my own transactions" case, and not the "I'm Visa and need to process millions of txns per day" case...
2314 2010-11-18 23:50:33 <theymos> I wonder if Link2Voip has more transactions than Bitcoin Faucet.
2315 2010-11-18 23:54:15 hippich_ has joined
2316 2010-11-18 23:56:48 bulbasaur has joined
2317 2010-11-18 23:57:42 <bulbasaur> has anyone installed more than 2 5970 cards on same mobo?