1 2010-11-24 00:05:13 <plasmaton> hmmm...has anyone contacted the existing porn pay sites?
   2 2010-11-24 00:12:26 <Teppy> Guess I just need to add porn to Dragon's Tale and I have the unholy trifecta ;)
   3 2010-11-24 00:13:31 <Kiba> getting rich off your MMO, Teppy?
   4 2010-11-24 00:13:45 kermit has joined
   5 2010-11-24 00:13:49 <Teppy> Heh, I'm down actually :).
   6 2010-11-24 00:14:07 <Teppy> Someone had a really nice run, up about 900 BTC.
   7 2010-11-24 00:14:34 <Kiba> I am trying to get rich by selling my artwork
   8 2010-11-24 00:16:30 <Kiba> still working on that site I made...
   9 2010-11-24 00:16:45 <Kiba> http://www.soulplaying.com
  10 2010-11-24 00:16:48 <Kiba> decides to skin it
  11 2010-11-24 00:16:54 <Kiba> reskin it..
  12 2010-11-24 00:17:02 <Kiba> but I have payment problem..
  13 2010-11-24 00:17:06 eureka^ has joined
  14 2010-11-24 00:17:46 plasmaton has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  15 2010-11-24 00:18:42 <Kiba> we're going to break record this month
  16 2010-11-24 00:18:56 <Kiba> the record for post volume a month is 4968
  17 2010-11-24 00:19:23 <Kiba> slashdot month
  18 2010-11-24 00:21:47 hippich has joined
  19 2010-11-24 00:30:59 theymos has joined
  20 2010-11-24 00:52:44 <anarchy_> time to celebrate
  21 2010-11-24 00:53:09 <anarchy_> sorry, had my window scrolled up - was replying to an older comment
  22 2010-11-24 01:05:51 <Kiba> lol
  23 2010-11-24 01:08:22 <anarchy_> it was actually still pretty relevant it seems :)
  24 2010-11-24 01:25:52 chaord has joined
  25 2010-11-24 01:26:24 dougztr has joined
  26 2010-11-24 01:27:28 dougztr has left ()
  27 2010-11-24 01:28:31 <ColonelPanic1> compiling things sucks
  28 2010-11-24 01:29:28 <eureka^> derp
  29 2010-11-24 01:29:40 <ColonelPanic1> mainly because I don't know how to do it on windows
  30 2010-11-24 01:29:48 <eureka^> yeah, that's a real pisser
  31 2010-11-24 01:29:54 <eureka^> cygwin is horrid :P
  32 2010-11-24 01:29:58 <eureka^> mingw isn't much better
  33 2010-11-24 01:30:01 <ColonelPanic1> im using mingw32
  34 2010-11-24 01:30:09 <ColonelPanic1> ive just never had to compile on windows
  35 2010-11-24 01:30:41 <eureka^> i found it easier to use mingw on linux lol
  36 2010-11-24 01:30:53 <ColonelPanic1> I just use gcc/g++
  37 2010-11-24 01:31:08 <ColonelPanic1> okay, where the hell is this home directory
  38 2010-11-24 01:33:31 <ColonelPanic1> and I have to build a bunch of other shit
  39 2010-11-24 01:33:34 <ColonelPanic1> what is this I don't even
  40 2010-11-24 01:40:39 warner has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
  41 2010-11-24 01:49:22 chaord has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  42 2010-11-24 02:03:02 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  43 2010-11-24 02:04:09 <ColonelPanic1> I fucking hate windows so much
  44 2010-11-24 02:09:37 <tcatm> don't use it
  45 2010-11-24 02:16:20 <ColonelPanic1> I actually solved that problem
  46 2010-11-24 02:16:30 <ColonelPanic1> now I'm just trying to get poclbm.py to work
  47 2010-11-24 02:16:38 <djoot> v0.7 of Mt. Gox Ticker for gdesklets @ http://djoot.se/mtgox/
  48 2010-11-24 02:16:58 <djoot> more configuration options... see screenshots
  49 2010-11-24 02:18:11 <ColonelPanic1> numpy
  50 2010-11-24 02:41:13 xelister has joined
  51 2010-11-24 02:50:23 <brocktice> Well, question answered
  52 2010-11-24 02:50:37 <brocktice> You can use both cards for mining even if only one is hooked to displays and being used
  53 2010-11-24 02:50:44 <brocktice> the other just has to be enabled as a separate desktop
  54 2010-11-24 02:50:55 <brocktice> the mouse can wander off the edge of the screen there, but no other harm done as far as I can tell.
  55 2010-11-24 02:51:11 <brocktice> AND the eyefinity 5 card is working beautifully. Compiz, finally!
  56 2010-11-24 02:51:20 <ColonelPanic1> congrats
  57 2010-11-24 02:51:22 <brocktice> thanks
  58 2010-11-24 02:51:33 <brocktice> Anyone want some nVidia cards? :)
  59 2010-11-24 02:51:39 <ColonelPanic1> I'm still working on poclbm.py
  60 2010-11-24 02:51:51 <brocktice> "working on"?
  61 2010-11-24 02:52:10 <ColonelPanic1> as in trying to get it to work
  62 2010-11-24 02:52:19 <ColonelPanic1> compiling dependencies and whatnot
  63 2010-11-24 02:53:55 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  64 2010-11-24 02:54:33 <brocktice> ah, bummer.
  65 2010-11-24 02:55:44 <ColonelPanic1> yeah, I need to start generating again
  66 2010-11-24 02:55:56 <ColonelPanic1> this is a bitch to set up, though
  67 2010-11-24 02:57:34 <brocktice> Windows?
  68 2010-11-24 02:58:47 <ColonelPanic1> yes
  69 2010-11-24 02:58:55 <ColonelPanic1> well, I'm doing it on ubuntu and windows at the same time
  70 2010-11-24 02:59:03 <brocktice> oh
  71 2010-11-24 02:59:11 <brocktice> I can help with ubuntu, windows not so much
  72 2010-11-24 03:00:17 <ColonelPanic1> pyopencl can't find CL/cl.h
  73 2010-11-24 03:00:19 <ColonelPanic1> hmmm
  74 2010-11-24 03:00:26 <brocktice> when building?
  75 2010-11-24 03:00:39 <brocktice> did you set the configure flags appropriately?
  76 2010-11-24 03:01:15 <tylergillies> is it safe to keep my majority of coins in mtgox?
  77 2010-11-24 03:01:21 <tylergillies> or should i store on localhost?
  78 2010-11-24 03:01:58 <brocktice> tylergillies: I'd say he's pretty trustworthy, no idea what his security is though
  79 2010-11-24 03:02:06 <theymos> I don't trust mtgox enough to store all my coins there.
  80 2010-11-24 03:02:16 <brocktice> he sent me $1000 by ACH to my bank account with no issues.
  81 2010-11-24 03:02:39 <ColonelPanic1> apparently I need the ati stream sdk
  82 2010-11-24 03:02:54 <theymos> Considering the number of bugs MtGox has had, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some massive security flaw.
  83 2010-11-24 03:03:12 <brocktice> ColonelPanic1: yep
  84 2010-11-24 03:04:12 <brocktice> wow even at 100% the fans on these 5770s are pretty quiet
  85 2010-11-24 03:04:47 <ArtForz> yeah, compared to 5870/5970 even a reference 5770 is positively quiet
  86 2010-11-24 03:05:25 <brocktice> ArtForz: also with the water cooling I figured out I can get down to a dull roar and only increase core speed on the 5970s by a few degrees C
  87 2010-11-24 03:05:36 <brocktice> Which will be good when my in-laws are visiting and staying in the adjacent room.
  88 2010-11-24 03:05:57 <brocktice> s/speed/temp/
  89 2010-11-24 03:06:05 <brocktice> sorry, I'm three sheets to the wind
  90 2010-11-24 03:06:13 <brocktice> and still managed to successfully swap video cards
  91 2010-11-24 03:06:18 <tylergillies> anyone know how to change timezone in bitcoin forums?
  92 2010-11-24 03:06:20 <ArtForz> hehe
  93 2010-11-24 03:06:25 <ArtForz> yeah
  94 2010-11-24 03:06:28 <brocktice> no bios flashing right now though
  95 2010-11-24 03:06:39 <brocktice> seems one of the 5770s refuses to overclock!
  96 2010-11-24 03:06:41 <tylergillies> brocktice: that takes skill ;)
  97 2010-11-24 03:06:43 <brocktice> I may have to remedy that
  98 2010-11-24 03:06:58 <brocktice> tylergillies: yeah I fucked it up last time and moved a decimal point, lucky I didn't fry anything.
  99 2010-11-24 03:07:04 <brocktice> I wasn't even drinking, just distracted by my family
 100 2010-11-24 03:07:05 <ArtForz> I have the feeling with a big enough rad you could run a set of 5970s pretty near silent
 101 2010-11-24 03:07:19 <brocktice> ArtForz: I can run 'em pretty much silent.
 102 2010-11-24 03:07:50 <brocktice> ArtForz: I don't like the temps, but my perception is skewed
 103 2010-11-24 03:07:57 <brocktice> They're still great compared to stock air cooling.
 104 2010-11-24 03:08:45 <ArtForz> yep
 105 2010-11-24 03:08:59 <ArtForz> for gaming I'd probably go with accelero air coolers
 106 2010-11-24 03:09:16 <brocktice> ArtForz: not sure you saw it in the scroll but the eyefinity 5 is working well
 107 2010-11-24 03:09:25 <ArtForz> yeah, nice
 108 2010-11-24 03:09:28 <brocktice> and the second card works, I just have to enable a dummy x display on it
 109 2010-11-24 03:09:44 <ArtForz> sounds right
 110 2010-11-24 03:09:56 <ArtForz> the acceleros are pretty quiet, at 100% they're about == to stock cooler at 30%
 111 2010-11-24 03:10:00 <brocktice> 5770 should be faster than a GTS 250 right?
 112 2010-11-24 03:10:01 <brocktice> wow
 113 2010-11-24 03:10:11 <brocktice> I saw on overclock.net a lot of people using the acceleros
 114 2010-11-24 03:10:11 <ArtForz> yeah
 115 2010-11-24 03:10:19 <brocktice> don't some xfx cards come with that preinstalled?
 116 2010-11-24 03:10:26 <ArtForz> sapphires I think
 117 2010-11-24 03:10:30 <brocktice> I'm going to have to try starcraft II here on eyefinity
 118 2010-11-24 03:10:33 <brocktice> not my sapphires.
 119 2010-11-24 03:10:37 <brocktice> maybe some other model?
 120 2010-11-24 03:10:50 <ArtForz> yea
 121 2010-11-24 03:10:57 <ColonelPanic1> alright "ImportError: libOpenCL.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" but pyopencl just installed fine
 122 2010-11-24 03:11:07 <ArtForz> the xfx cooler imo == crap
 123 2010-11-24 03:11:33 <ArtForz> same blower as on ref, but now in the middle
 124 2010-11-24 03:11:34 Diablo-D3 has joined
 125 2010-11-24 03:11:56 <brocktice> ArtForz: oh, great, so the hot air goes back into the case
 126 2010-11-24 03:11:57 <brocktice> brilliant
 127 2010-11-24 03:12:06 <Diablo-D3> brocktice
 128 2010-11-24 03:12:09 <ArtForz> aww, it's only on the 4GB sapphire cards
 129 2010-11-24 03:12:09 <brocktice> Diablo-D3:
 130 2010-11-24 03:12:14 <brocktice> yes?
 131 2010-11-24 03:12:36 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: did you test
 132 2010-11-24 03:12:43 <brocktice> nope, shall I do that now?
 133 2010-11-24 03:12:47 <brocktice> Should I just pull from github?
 134 2010-11-24 03:12:52 <brocktice> (and edit the miner file)
 135 2010-11-24 03:12:52 <Diablo-D3> no use the binary
 136 2010-11-24 03:12:57 <brocktice> -test?
 137 2010-11-24 03:13:01 <Diablo-D3> yes
 138 2010-11-24 03:13:02 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: also
 139 2010-11-24 03:13:05 <Diablo-D3> you dont need to edit
 140 2010-11-24 03:13:06 <Diablo-D3> just use -a
 141 2010-11-24 03:13:08 <brocktice> ok one moment
 142 2010-11-24 03:14:04 <brocktice> what has changed now?
 143 2010-11-24 03:14:13 * brocktice is downloading
 144 2010-11-24 03:15:45 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 145 2010-11-24 03:16:15 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: something big that shouldnt work
 146 2010-11-24 03:16:24 <brocktice> oh, brilliant
 147 2010-11-24 03:16:34 <brocktice> can you be more specific?
 148 2010-11-24 03:16:51 <Diablo-D3> not until I know its faster on 5xxx
 149 2010-11-24 03:16:57 * brocktice rolls eyes
 150 2010-11-24 03:17:07 <brocktice> faster than what?
 151 2010-11-24 03:17:09 <brocktice> last time?
 152 2010-11-24 03:17:11 <Diablo-D3> git head
 153 2010-11-24 03:18:16 <brocktice> now my miner is going to start complaining to me because minerd is not running
 154 2010-11-24 03:18:19 <brocktice> but I will put up with it
 155 2010-11-24 03:18:22 <brocktice> just for you
 156 2010-11-24 03:18:29 <brocktice> ooh segfault
 157 2010-11-24 03:18:32 <brocktice> nice work
 158 2010-11-24 03:20:00 <Diablo-D3> what, really?
 159 2010-11-24 03:20:18 <brocktice> Added Cypress (20 CU, 1x vector, local work size of 256)
 160 2010-11-24 03:20:20 <brocktice> Segmentation fault
 161 2010-11-24 03:20:26 <Diablo-D3> hrrrm.
 162 2010-11-24 03:20:37 <Diablo-D3> yet it works on my 4850.
 163 2010-11-24 03:20:42 * brocktice shrugs
 164 2010-11-24 03:20:55 <brocktice> seems to be an issue when it tries to initialize on the second card
 165 2010-11-24 03:21:01 <brocktice> so you have a 2+ bug
 166 2010-11-24 03:21:21 <brocktice> wtf am I going to do with this GTS250
 167 2010-11-24 03:21:23 * brocktice checks ebay
 168 2010-11-24 03:21:47 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: do export DISPLAY=:0.0 and try again
 169 2010-11-24 03:22:36 <ne0futur> ier2.ww7.be/william@waisse.org.png
 170 2010-11-24 03:22:45 <ne0futur> the WoT of my keyring
 171 2010-11-24 03:22:54 <brocktice> ok that runs
 172 2010-11-24 03:23:27 <ColonelPanic1> can someone tell me how I'm supposed to direct poclbm.py to libOpenCL.so?
 173 2010-11-24 03:23:40 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: is it faster?
 174 2010-11-24 03:23:49 <ColonelPanic1> python is moonspeak to me
 175 2010-11-24 03:23:56 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: dunno I didn't kill my other miner
 176 2010-11-24 03:23:57 <brocktice> hang on
 177 2010-11-24 03:24:03 <brocktice> ColonelPanic1: just think of it as pseudocode
 178 2010-11-24 03:24:06 <ArtForz> shouldnt it look for OpenCL.dll or something on windows?
 179 2010-11-24 03:24:08 <brocktice> it basically is
 180 2010-11-24 03:24:08 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: you dont direct it
 181 2010-11-24 03:24:13 <ColonelPanic1> not doing it on windows
 182 2010-11-24 03:24:18 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: its like every other program on windows
 183 2010-11-24 03:24:23 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: are you on ATI?
 184 2010-11-24 03:24:26 <ColonelPanic1> yes
 185 2010-11-24 03:24:31 <brocktice> ooh that's interestgin
 186 2010-11-24 03:24:32 <ne0futur> oups :
 187 2010-11-24 03:24:34 <Diablo-D3> install the catalyst driver WITH the opencl runtime
 188 2010-11-24 03:24:34 <brocktice> segfault again
 189 2010-11-24 03:24:37 <brocktice> even with :0.0
 190 2010-11-24 03:24:38 <ColonelPanic1> ubuntu 10.10, radeon 5850
 191 2010-11-24 03:24:46 <Diablo-D3> oh
 192 2010-11-24 03:24:48 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu?
 193 2010-11-24 03:24:56 <brocktice> aand this time it seems to not be segfaulting
 194 2010-11-24 03:24:57 <ArtForz> oh, then, set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include the lib/x86 or x86_64 dir of your ati sdk
 195 2010-11-24 03:24:58 <brocktice> that's odd
 196 2010-11-24 03:24:58 <ColonelPanic1> im running the catalyst driver and already installed pyopencl
 197 2010-11-24 03:25:02 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: you forgot to download the ati stream sdk
 198 2010-11-24 03:25:11 <tylergillies> Bitcoin Miners, because only the elite can make money from smoking hash
 199 2010-11-24 03:25:12 <ColonelPanic1> I have it, just don't know where I set the path
 200 2010-11-24 03:25:20 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: [10:17:02] <ArtForz> oh, then, set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include the lib/x86 or x86_64 dir of your ati sdk
 201 2010-11-24 03:25:23 <brocktice> blargh this sucks
 202 2010-11-24 03:25:31 <brocktice> 248000 khash/sec
 203 2010-11-24 03:25:37 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: so its randomly segfaulting?
 204 2010-11-24 03:25:42 <brocktice> yep
 205 2010-11-24 03:25:49 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: is it faster than head is?
 206 2010-11-24 03:25:57 <brocktice> no I don't think so
 207 2010-11-24 03:26:06 <Diablo-D3> is it slower?
 208 2010-11-24 03:26:07 <brocktice> before I was getting around 300,000 khash/s each
 209 2010-11-24 03:26:11 <ne0futur> sorry bad chan
 210 2010-11-24 03:26:11 <brocktice> yes slower
 211 2010-11-24 03:26:13 <ColonelPanic1> oh, I need to set an environment variable
 212 2010-11-24 03:26:25 <brocktice> (on your miner 300,000)
 213 2010-11-24 03:26:32 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: frown.
 214 2010-11-24 03:26:46 <brocktice> sorry, them's the breaks
 215 2010-11-24 03:27:06 * Diablo-D3 sighs.
 216 2010-11-24 03:27:32 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if its faster on geforce
 217 2010-11-24 03:27:47 <ArtForz> well, at least it segfaults faster
 218 2010-11-24 03:28:25 <brocktice> heh
 219 2010-11-24 03:28:27 <Diablo-D3> heh
 220 2010-11-24 03:28:41 <ColonelPanic1> that didn't work, actually
 221 2010-11-24 03:28:43 <ColonelPanic1> fff
 222 2010-11-24 03:28:55 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: you're on x86? or x86-64?
 223 2010-11-24 03:29:04 <ColonelPanic1> x86, I set it to the right directory
 224 2010-11-24 03:29:16 <Diablo-D3> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/ati-stream/ati-stream-sdk-v2.2-lnx64/lib/x86/:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
 225 2010-11-24 03:29:23 <Diablo-D3> (or 2.1 if you're on that)
 226 2010-11-24 03:29:39 <Diablo-D3> we recommend 2.1
 227 2010-11-24 03:29:50 <brocktice> you're running x86?
 228 2010-11-24 03:30:00 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: and remember, that only sets it in the terminal you're on
 229 2010-11-24 03:30:05 <hippich> hey, kiba, check out http://ubitio.us !! =)
 230 2010-11-24 03:30:28 <ColonelPanic1> ah, that helped
 231 2010-11-24 03:30:34 <ColonelPanic1> now to get jsonrpc installed
 232 2010-11-24 03:31:11 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: http://json-rpc.org/wiki/python-json-rpc
 233 2010-11-24 03:31:22 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu still doesnt fucking package it
 234 2010-11-24 03:31:37 blablaa has joined
 235 2010-11-24 03:32:55 <Kiba> hippich: saw it already
 236 2010-11-24 03:32:59 <ColonelPanic1> this one sounds fun "pyopencl.LogicError: clGetPlatformIDs failed: invalid/unknown error code"
 237 2010-11-24 03:33:19 <brocktice> oh
 238 2010-11-24 03:33:23 <brocktice> register your sdk
 239 2010-11-24 03:33:29 <ArtForz> you forget that tgz that goes into /etc
 240 2010-11-24 03:33:33 <brocktice> I just encountered this one an hour ago on my workstation
 241 2010-11-24 03:33:45 <ColonelPanic1> wait, wat
 242 2010-11-24 03:33:54 <brocktice> djoot: Nice, you added newlines!
 243 2010-11-24 03:33:56 <ArtForz> the registration one
 244 2010-11-24 03:34:47 <brocktice> I hate to be like this but people really need to RTFM
 245 2010-11-24 03:34:53 <ArtForz> icd-registration.tgz or so
 246 2010-11-24 03:35:15 <brocktice> and then fgi
 247 2010-11-24 03:35:15 <djoot> brocktice: yep, any string as separator really, except for newline, then only newline
 248 2010-11-24 03:35:20 <brocktice> and then ask for help
 249 2010-11-24 03:35:32 <djoot> my python-fu not very good :)
 250 2010-11-24 03:35:39 <Kiba> hippich: now, we need a freakishly easy to use browser extension
 251 2010-11-24 03:35:46 <djoot> I prefer to have it on one line though
 252 2010-11-24 03:35:54 <Kiba> so that we can pay for stuff
 253 2010-11-24 03:36:00 <hippich> yea. like 1-click payments.
 254 2010-11-24 03:36:08 <brocktice> djoot: Ah, I have a hard time finding the right bit of info with it all on one line
 255 2010-11-24 03:36:08 <Kiba> chromium extension is a good start
 256 2010-11-24 03:36:12 <Kiba> but develoopment is slow
 257 2010-11-24 03:36:14 <brocktice> all jumbles together
 258 2010-11-24 03:37:25 <djoot> brocktice: you can also choose which tags you want to display, if you find high/low/vol superfluous..
 259 2010-11-24 03:38:09 <brocktice> ooh nice
 260 2010-11-24 03:38:31 <brocktice> djoot: perfect, all I want is buy, sell, and last
 261 2010-11-24 03:38:36 <brocktice> nice work
 262 2010-11-24 03:38:41 <djoot> thanks
 263 2010-11-24 03:38:47 <brocktice> (donated again a minute ago btw)
 264 2010-11-24 03:39:09 <djoot> cool, thank you, very generous :)
 265 2010-11-24 03:39:11 <brocktice> Surprisingly that's my favorite feature of bitcoin so far
 266 2010-11-24 03:39:23 <brocktice> Very easy to donate quickly to things I like\
 267 2010-11-24 03:39:31 <Diablo-D3> [10:25:34] <ArtForz> you forget that tgz that goes into /etc
 268 2010-11-24 03:39:32 <Diablo-D3> no
 269 2010-11-24 03:39:35 <Diablo-D3> it goes in /
 270 2010-11-24 03:39:38 <Diablo-D3> it just makes files in /etc
 271 2010-11-24 03:39:41 <brocktice> well, it pust stuff in /et.... yeah
 272 2010-11-24 03:40:17 <brocktice> djoot: not so generous, I'm just glad you made it and want to support this and future updates
 273 2010-11-24 03:40:34 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: http://developer.amd.com/Downloads/icd-registration.tgz
 274 2010-11-24 03:40:35 <brocktice> People's time is worth a lot and I think that's often disregarded.
 275 2010-11-24 03:40:54 <Kiba> ubitio.us is MADE OF AWESOME WIN
 276 2010-11-24 03:41:01 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: download that, cd /; sudo tar zxvf /path/to/that.tgz
 277 2010-11-24 03:41:23 * brocktice checks out ubitio.us
 278 2010-11-24 03:41:41 <brocktice> niiiice
 279 2010-11-24 03:41:51 <brocktice> much better than that other domain name
 280 2010-11-24 03:41:55 <brocktice> it was kind of scary
 281 2010-11-24 03:42:01 <brocktice> and this one actually loads in my firefox
 282 2010-11-24 03:42:07 <hippich> well. it was development server )
 283 2010-11-24 03:42:17 <hippich> and now - it found it's name )
 284 2010-11-24 03:42:21 <brocktice> sure, fair enough
 285 2010-11-24 03:42:22 <brocktice> cute name
 286 2010-11-24 03:42:25 * Diablo-D3 sighs.
 287 2010-11-24 03:42:51 kermit has joined
 288 2010-11-24 03:43:58 <Diablo-D3> so close!
 289 2010-11-24 03:44:02 <Kiba> Very nice and direct to the point, hippich
 290 2010-11-24 03:44:04 <Kiba> keep it
 291 2010-11-24 03:44:21 <hippich> well. at least for one year i will keep it for sure ))))
 292 2010-11-24 03:44:26 <Kiba> idea: don't distract the user until he is done downloading.
 293 2010-11-24 03:44:29 <hippich> jsut registered domain )
 294 2010-11-24 03:44:43 <Kiba> hippich: the front page is direct to the point, no frill
 295 2010-11-24 03:44:44 <Kiba> me like.
 296 2010-11-24 03:44:50 <hippich> aa)
 297 2010-11-24 03:44:52 <hippich> i see )
 298 2010-11-24 03:45:13 <hippich> yeah. this service is just to upload file. link to download should send Uploaders.
 299 2010-11-24 03:46:00 <xelister> so now getwork is part of officiall bitcoind and no need to manually patch anymore?
 300 2010-11-24 03:46:14 <Diablo-D3> xelister: since when?
 301 2010-11-24 03:46:31 * Diablo-D3 looks at his miner
 302 2010-11-24 03:46:33 <Diablo-D3> so close =/
 303 2010-11-24 03:46:41 <xelister> r189 | s_nakamoto | 2010-11-23 20:16:36 +0100 (Tue, 23 Nov 2010) | 1 line
 304 2010-11-24 03:46:42 <xelister> new getwork
 305 2010-11-24 03:47:01 <Diablo-D3> I hate 5xxx now
 306 2010-11-24 03:47:04 <Diablo-D3> how dare it be slower
 307 2010-11-24 03:47:10 <xelister> how much slower then m0m's
 308 2010-11-24 03:47:27 <Diablo-D3> you mean vs my git head
 309 2010-11-24 03:47:39 <xelister> yes
 310 2010-11-24 03:48:13 <Diablo-D3> brocktice tried it, per 5970 gpu, it gets 243 where head gets 300
 311 2010-11-24 03:48:17 <Diablo-D3> le sigj
 312 2010-11-24 03:48:20 <Diablo-D3> *sigh
 313 2010-11-24 03:48:58 <xelister> newer version of yours miner is slower then previous version of it?
 314 2010-11-24 03:49:05 <Diablo-D3> yes.
 315 2010-11-24 03:49:06 <Diablo-D3> but
 316 2010-11-24 03:49:08 <Diablo-D3> its faster on 4xxx
 317 2010-11-24 03:49:13 <Diablo-D3> ;_;
 318 2010-11-24 03:49:24 <djoot> brocktice: well, I'm glad you like it, and thanks for the support :)
 319 2010-11-24 03:49:44 <brocktice> np
 320 2010-11-24 03:49:56 <Diablo-D3> xelister: like I said, on my 4850, it does 77.9 vs 74.5, where the theoretical max is 78.6
 321 2010-11-24 03:50:01 * Diablo-D3 is very unhappy
 322 2010-11-24 03:50:07 * xelister spanks Diablo-D3
 323 2010-11-24 03:52:33 <ColonelPanic1> IT WORKS!
 324 2010-11-24 03:52:42 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so bleh
 325 2010-11-24 03:52:45 <ColonelPanic1> 10800 khash/s
 326 2010-11-24 03:52:53 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: wow thats slow, wtf are you on?
 327 2010-11-24 03:52:54 <ColonelPanic1> sorry, 108000*
 328 2010-11-24 03:53:00 <Diablo-D3> oh thats a little more like it
 329 2010-11-24 03:53:03 <xelister> ColonelPanic1: what card/miner/os ?
 330 2010-11-24 03:53:13 <Diablo-D3> sounds like lower end 5xxx hardware
 331 2010-11-24 03:53:20 <xelister> is it...
 332 2010-11-24 03:53:25 * xelister looks in his spreachseet
 333 2010-11-24 03:53:26 <Diablo-D3> nothing geforce goes that fast
 334 2010-11-24 03:53:29 <ColonelPanic1> it's a 5850 mobile with poclbm.py on ubuntu 10.10
 335 2010-11-24 03:53:52 <ColonelPanic1> oh shi- I can hear it firing up now
 336 2010-11-24 03:54:07 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: I do not recommend running a miner on a laptop
 337 2010-11-24 03:54:15 <Diablo-D3> laptops are not designed to actually be used
 338 2010-11-24 03:54:18 <Diablo-D3> they usually burn up
 339 2010-11-24 03:54:19 <xelister> is it a bit slower then Radeon HD 5750 ?
 340 2010-11-24 03:54:25 <xelister> ah, mobile
 341 2010-11-24 03:54:37 <Kiba> so, I seem to have received additional bitcoins
 342 2010-11-24 03:54:39 <xelister> yeah I advice against miningon latptops
 343 2010-11-24 03:54:49 <ColonelPanic1> really now?
 344 2010-11-24 03:54:53 <Kiba> 0.02
 345 2010-11-24 03:55:00 <ColonelPanic1> but it's a sweet laptop
 346 2010-11-24 03:55:03 <ArtForz> yep, really bad idea imo
 347 2010-11-24 03:55:09 <xelister> ColonelPanic1: well you can try it.. just watch it to not overheat
 348 2010-11-24 03:55:28 <ArtForz> laptop GPU cooling is mostly a fucking joke
 349 2010-11-24 03:55:40 <ColonelPanic1> it's an alienware m15x, figured that would be okay
 350 2010-11-24 03:55:56 <ArtForz> which also happens to be the reason we had nvidia bumpgate first on mobile GPUs
 351 2010-11-24 03:56:05 <ColonelPanic1> fans were roaring like a motherfucker a second ago, just slowed down though
 352 2010-11-24 03:56:56 <Diablo-D3> laptops are shit
 353 2010-11-24 03:58:03 <ColonelPanic1> so can I run one instance of this using my GPU, and another with my CPU on the same machine?
 354 2010-11-24 03:58:12 <Diablo-D3> dont bother
 355 2010-11-24 03:58:18 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: and no
 356 2010-11-24 03:58:20 <ColonelPanic1> :(
 357 2010-11-24 03:58:20 <Diablo-D3> thats not how it works
 358 2010-11-24 03:58:23 <xelister> Diablo-D3: your miner seems to throw exception with 189 bitcoind
 359 2010-11-24 03:58:29 <xelister> at parsing getwork
 360 2010-11-24 03:58:32 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yeah screw 189
 361 2010-11-24 03:58:43 <Diablo-D3> m0's should fuck up too
 362 2010-11-24 03:58:56 <ColonelPanic1> just asking, because I have a choice of which device to use
 363 2010-11-24 03:59:02 <ColonelPanic1> so why not both?
 364 2010-11-24 03:59:19 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 365 2010-11-24 04:00:36 <Diablo-D3> dont
 366 2010-11-24 04:00:37 <Diablo-D3> only use one
 367 2010-11-24 04:00:43 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: and opencl is slower on the cpu
 368 2010-11-24 04:00:50 <Diablo-D3> if you're going to mine on the cpu, just use bitcoin itself
 369 2010-11-24 04:00:53 <Diablo-D3> which is a waste of time
 370 2010-11-24 04:00:55 <ColonelPanic1> yes, I noticed that
 371 2010-11-24 04:00:57 <Diablo-D3> so dont mine on the cpu at all
 372 2010-11-24 04:01:08 <xelister> diablooooooooooooooooooooo
 373 2010-11-24 04:01:16 <xelister> can you fix your miner for 189
 374 2010-11-24 04:01:43 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: as a comparison, my c2d e8500 uses about 65 watts, it does 2.9 mhash... my radeon 4850 uses about twice that and does 75.
 375 2010-11-24 04:01:48 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: cpu mining is dead
 376 2010-11-24 04:01:57 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no, bitcoin needs to fix their getwork
 377 2010-11-24 04:02:04 <xelister> lololololol
 378 2010-11-24 04:02:13 <xelister> satoshi will fix bitcoind to fit your miner?
 379 2010-11-24 04:02:22 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no, he will fix it to fit m0's too
 380 2010-11-24 04:02:31 <xelister>  String blocks = responseMessage.get("block").getValueAsText();
 381 2010-11-24 04:02:32 <Diablo-D3> my miner is only compatible with m0's getwork
 382 2010-11-24 04:02:40 <xelister> why is satoshi not in this channel
 383 2010-11-24 04:02:55 <xelister> ArtForz: are you satoshi?
 384 2010-11-24 04:02:57 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so if satoshi commited a broken getwork that isnt compatible with my or m0's at all
 385 2010-11-24 04:03:00 <Diablo-D3> xelister: fuck him
 386 2010-11-24 04:03:19 * xelister mail orders a big dildo
 387 2010-11-24 04:03:31 <xelister> bad satoshi.
 388 2010-11-24 04:03:58 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I mean, you do realize who wrote the getwork patch, right?
 389 2010-11-24 04:04:00 <Diablo-D3> m0 did
 390 2010-11-24 04:04:12 <Diablo-D3> so not only is r189 broken with mine, its broken with m0's too
 391 2010-11-24 04:04:26 <xelister> I know
 392 2010-11-24 04:04:41 <Diablo-D3> xelister: pastebin the getwork output from ./bitcoind getwork
 393 2010-11-24 04:04:58 * Kiba 's art career seem to be promising
 394 2010-11-24 04:05:29 <xelister> nah I will just use 186 then
 395 2010-11-24 04:05:33 <xelister> perhaps in fact satoshi will fix
 396 2010-11-24 04:05:45 <Diablo-D3> xelister: pastebin the fucking output
 397 2010-11-24 04:05:50 <Diablo-D3> I wanna see what he fucked up
 398 2010-11-24 04:07:40 <Diablo-D3> xelister: dooo eeet
 399 2010-11-24 04:08:41 <xelister> k
 400 2010-11-24 04:08:47 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 401 2010-11-24 04:10:37 <ColonelPanic1> anyone have suggestions for how I should monitor GPU temp on linux?
 402 2010-11-24 04:11:00 <ArtForz> aticonfig --odgt ?
 403 2010-11-24 04:11:25 <ColonelPanic1> that fails for some reason
 404 2010-11-24 04:11:33 <ArtForz> uhhh
 405 2010-11-24 04:19:06 <jgarzik> blah.  lost in a maze of ByteReverse().  for example, I cannot figure out why upstream 'getwork' does a ByteReserve on 128-byte pdata, prior to passing to CheckWork()
 406 2010-11-24 04:19:47 <xelister> $ ./bitcoind getwork
 407 2010-11-24 04:19:47 <xelister> {
 408 2010-11-24 04:19:47 <xelister>     "midstate" : "fbea2bafccc3fa9c68a1a2663c0d90050c09bd63b2d2bbed43b9d8a0258bb195",
 409 2010-11-24 04:19:49 <xelister>     "data" : "000000010b0e80982b65b2796ce2285fe7434059c82931f3364c2bea0002e52d00000000544ca9c0120b8955224b2985d9eba010f32367b0a520a31a5d9b6f3705ede5544cec906f1b098b2a00000000000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000",
 410 2010-11-24 04:19:49 <xelister>     "hash1" : "00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000008000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000",
 411 2010-11-24 04:19:49 <xelister>     "target" : "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002a8b090000000000"
 412 2010-11-24 04:19:51 <xelister> }
 413 2010-11-24 04:19:51 <xelister> ^- 189
 414 2010-11-24 04:20:04 <xelister> jgarzik: yeah 189's getwork by satoshi is some incompatible pile of.. it seems
 415 2010-11-24 04:20:43 <jgarzik> I am writing a miner from scratch
 416 2010-11-24 04:21:10 <jgarzik> so hopefully no incompatibility problems exist
 417 2010-11-24 04:21:12 <xelister> what language?
 418 2010-11-24 04:24:01 <jgarzik> C
 419 2010-11-24 04:24:24 <ColonelPanic1> ah, something I might understand
 420 2010-11-24 04:24:37 <xelister> pure C O_o ?
 421 2010-11-24 04:24:38 <jgarzik> yes
 422 2010-11-24 04:24:41 <xelister> its sadomaso
 423 2010-11-24 04:24:41 <xelister> :)
 424 2010-11-24 04:24:48 <ColonelPanic1> I would like to see this
 425 2010-11-24 04:24:49 <xelister> why not just c++
 426 2010-11-24 04:24:57 <MT`AwAy> why one would want to use C++ ?
 427 2010-11-24 04:24:59 <xelister> ColonelPanic1: btw the bitcoind itself is in c++
 428 2010-11-24 04:24:59 <ColonelPanic1> because he wants bare metal
 429 2010-11-24 04:25:06 <ColonelPanic1> xelister: I knew that?
 430 2010-11-24 04:25:09 <gavinandresen> the // comments are nice
 431 2010-11-24 04:25:22 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: use C99 and not $⅜ı§¢ crappy ANSI standard
 432 2010-11-24 04:25:35 <xelister> MT`AwAy: tons of applications are written in c++ because it is popular, extreamly established/stable/known, well-tooled, and fast-compilable
 433 2010-11-24 04:25:59 <xelister> why use C, it will not give any speed advantages
 434 2010-11-24 04:26:09 <MT`AwAy> xelister: and tons of stuff that must be fast and in which memory allocations/etc must be closely monitored are written in C
 435 2010-11-24 04:26:14 <xelister> anyway here where 99.99% of time comes from the miner CL program speed
 436 2010-11-24 04:26:14 <gavinandresen> I haven't written code in pure C since... umm... 1992?
 437 2010-11-24 04:26:27 <ColonelPanic1> I write code in C errday
 438 2010-11-24 04:26:37 <xelister> MT`AwAy: bullshit, except for kernels and drivers
 439 2010-11-24 04:26:58 <jgarzik> and python plugins and perl plugins and core libraries and
 440 2010-11-24 04:27:20 <MT`AwAy> xelister: good for me, I'm writing kernels. However whatever language you use should be your own liberty, and you should be able to say "I'll write that in C" without getting bashed :D
 441 2010-11-24 04:27:31 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: plain C, open source?  I've been tempted to get GPU mining on my Mac, but haven't bothered to get all the right Java/Python pieces put together...
 442 2010-11-24 04:27:34 <xelister> MT`AwAy: actually the oposite, c++ have tools that can track precise allocation of resources etc, c lacks them making such memory managment harder
 443 2010-11-24 04:27:40 <ByteCoin> Are you writing a client too?
 444 2010-11-24 04:27:57 <xelister> MT`AwAy: Im not bashing anyone :)
 445 2010-11-24 04:28:01 <ByteCoin> Or just the mining portion?
 446 2010-11-24 04:28:03 <jgarzik> ArtForz has already written a client in Python
 447 2010-11-24 04:28:07 <MT`AwAy> xelister: C++ needs those because it does stuff implicitly
 448 2010-11-24 04:28:12 <MT`AwAy> in C, if you don't do something, it won't happen
 449 2010-11-24 04:28:13 <MT`AwAy> :D
 450 2010-11-24 04:28:13 * jgarzik is writing a CPU miner in plain C, open source
 451 2010-11-24 04:28:17 <ByteCoin> I think it's half a client
 452 2010-11-24 04:28:18 <jgarzik> not GPU
 453 2010-11-24 04:28:21 <xelister> jgarzik: cpu miner?
 454 2010-11-24 04:28:28 <jgarzik> yes
 455 2010-11-24 04:28:34 <ColonelPanic1> jgarzik: can I get in on this?
 456 2010-11-24 04:28:37 <xelister> but cpu miners can never catch up to gpu / opencomputing/opencl ones it seems
 457 2010-11-24 04:28:53 <MT`AwAy> xelister: with my CPU miner I do 30~35Mhash/sec, and I'm quite happy with that
 458 2010-11-24 04:28:53 <MT`AwAy> :D
 459 2010-11-24 04:29:05 <ByteCoin> Perhaps I'm missing something... what's the point of writing another miner?
 460 2010-11-24 04:29:08 <MT`AwAy> (not going to reach some people's 6Ghash/sec)
 461 2010-11-24 04:29:15 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: fun
 462 2010-11-24 04:29:22 <xelister> MT`AwAy: 50 usd gfx card does that, while not blocking your PC and eating less W ;)
 463 2010-11-24 04:29:41 <xelister> MT`AwAy: what cpus? :)
 464 2010-11-24 04:29:51 <MT`AwAy> xelister: I'm using idle cpu power from my servers, which does not block anything and I don't pay for the W anyway
 465 2010-11-24 04:29:59 <xelister> ah
 466 2010-11-24 04:30:14 <ByteCoin> Oooookkaaaayyyy.... seriously, you're writing a CPU miner for fun? Is that right jgarzik
 467 2010-11-24 04:30:28 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: you can also write one to understand how the whole thing works
 468 2010-11-24 04:30:33 <MT`AwAy> reasons are not important
 469 2010-11-24 04:30:44 <jgarzik> ByteCoin: correct
 470 2010-11-24 04:31:14 <Kiba> http://ub.yepcorp.com/file/download/4
 471 2010-11-24 04:31:22 <Kiba> hmm
 472 2010-11-24 04:31:23 <Kiba> wrong link
 473 2010-11-24 04:31:24 <ByteCoin> Ok. Thx
 474 2010-11-24 04:31:41 <MT`AwAy> I'm writing a bitcoin client for fun, too :p
 475 2010-11-24 04:32:11 <MT`AwAy> (and one that won't need wx2.9 or any weird libs, and won't have mining at all, mining will have to be done externally)
 476 2010-11-24 04:32:30 <ByteCoin> MT AwAy: Which language?
 477 2010-11-24 04:33:13 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: C++
 478 2010-11-24 04:33:22 <MT`AwAy> (no, I don't do UI stuff in C)
 479 2010-11-24 04:33:45 <ByteCoin> Is the wallet handling going to be a separate process to the peer to peer stuff?
 480 2010-11-24 04:33:47 <MT`AwAy> basically I want to do something easier to read that current bitcoin client where all the shit is in main.cpp
 481 2010-11-24 04:33:57 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: yep
 482 2010-11-24 04:34:10 <MT`AwAy> if the OS allows it
 483 2010-11-24 04:34:26 <Kiba> I would write the bitcoin client in python
 484 2010-11-24 04:34:32 <ByteCoin> I suggest that the interface between the wallet handler and the p2p portion be TCP
 485 2010-11-24 04:34:32 <gavinandresen> Mt`Away: design it as a libbitcoin and then an app on top that uses it and you'll have my eternal gratitude....
 486 2010-11-24 04:34:40 <MT`AwAy> (ie on linux I'm positive I can do it, dunno if windows supports threads without memory sharing
 487 2010-11-24 04:34:48 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: that's my current app design
 488 2010-11-24 04:34:54 <Kiba> can somebody work on chromium extension?
 489 2010-11-24 04:34:58 <ArtForz> threads without memoy sharing? like... processes?
 490 2010-11-24 04:35:00 <Kiba> I guess not.
 491 2010-11-24 04:35:02 <MT`AwAy> it uses a common bitcoin lib, and two frontends (cli & ui)
 492 2010-11-24 04:35:12 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: there's no fork() on win32
 493 2010-11-24 04:35:16 <theymos> nanotube: I will shortly move BTC real-time stats to http://blockexplorer.com/q/ . If gribble can follow 301 redirects, no changes should be required.
 494 2010-11-24 04:39:00 <xelister> Diablo-D3: pasted
 495 2010-11-24 04:39:17 <ColonelPanic1> so is it really not a good idea to GPU mine on my laptop?
 496 2010-11-24 04:39:24 <ColonelPanic1> as in, dangerous to my hardware's health
 497 2010-11-24 04:39:59 <Diablo-D3> xelister: url?
 498 2010-11-24 04:40:40 <Diablo-D3> oh wait
 499 2010-11-24 04:40:41 <Diablo-D3> I see it
 500 2010-11-24 04:40:42 <Diablo-D3> yeah
 501 2010-11-24 04:40:43 <Diablo-D3> wtf
 502 2010-11-24 04:40:49 <Diablo-D3> that patch isnt even close to compatible with m0's
 503 2010-11-24 04:42:40 a_meteorite has quit (Quit: http://bzfx.net/)
 504 2010-11-24 04:43:23 <ColonelPanic1> 100Mhash/s seems worth it to me
 505 2010-11-24 04:43:52 <xelister> ArtForz: crossair is good PSU?
 506 2010-11-24 04:45:34 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you mean corsair
 507 2010-11-24 04:45:37 <Diablo-D3> depends on which one
 508 2010-11-24 04:46:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: how many watts you need?
 509 2010-11-24 04:47:00 <xelister> that is a question to
 510 2010-11-24 04:47:02 <xelister> too
 511 2010-11-24 04:47:13 <Diablo-D3> what do you have?
 512 2010-11-24 04:50:13 <ArtForz> so far it seems every PSU is more or less crap
 513 2010-11-24 04:50:15 <Diablo-D3> because I doubt you need more than 650 watts unless you're going with quite a few GPUs
 514 2010-11-24 04:50:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they are
 515 2010-11-24 04:50:27 <Diablo-D3> fucking pc power might as well be out of business
 516 2010-11-24 04:50:32 <Diablo-D3> the new silencer IIs are shit
 517 2010-11-24 04:51:02 <Diablo-D3> perfect psu == single 12v rail, 20 pounds of heatsink, a 80mm fan, giant caps
 518 2010-11-24 04:51:07 <ArtForz> doesnt matter if it's $100 or $250, continous load >80% or so = fail
 519 2010-11-24 04:51:16 <Diablo-D3> ergo, the original silencer series
 520 2010-11-24 04:51:19 <Diablo-D3> absolute perfect
 521 2010-11-24 04:51:35 <Diablo-D3> but you cant buy them anymore
 522 2010-11-24 04:51:35 <ArtForz> the problem is internal temps
 523 2010-11-24 04:51:41 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
 524 2010-11-24 04:51:53 <Diablo-D3> those fucking giant fans fuck everything up
 525 2010-11-24 04:51:57 <ArtForz> yep
 526 2010-11-24 04:52:12 <Diablo-D3> you cant increase airflow enough to deal with the fact your heatsinks are now tiny and shit
 527 2010-11-24 04:52:24 <Diablo-D3> the AT/ATX PSU design was meant for 80mm fans
 528 2010-11-24 04:52:27 <ArtForz> actually the heatsinks are big enough
 529 2010-11-24 04:52:36 <ArtForz> but how the f* is the airflow supposed to make a 90° bend?
 530 2010-11-24 04:52:37 <Diablo-D3> yeah but your airflow is now shot
 531 2010-11-24 04:52:40 <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
 532 2010-11-24 04:52:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I think if I have to replace my psu
 533 2010-11-24 04:53:00 <Diablo-D3> Im going to turn the psu fan off
 534 2010-11-24 04:53:08 <jgarzik> ColonelPanic1: git://github.com/jgarzik/cpuminer.git
 535 2010-11-24 04:53:10 <Diablo-D3> my case has a 120 fan thats between the bottom drive cage and the psu
 536 2010-11-24 04:53:18 <Diablo-D3> so it blows the air right into the psu and out the case
 537 2010-11-24 04:53:20 <jgarzik> ColonelPanic1: it doesn't work yet, so don't get excited.  something is broken
 538 2010-11-24 04:53:29 <jgarzik> and I bet it's fscking ByteReverse related
 539 2010-11-24 04:53:38 <Diablo-D3> either that, or figure out how to externally mount a 80mm fan
 540 2010-11-24 04:53:50 <Diablo-D3> the only way around this
 541 2010-11-24 04:53:55 <Diablo-D3> is buy PSUs rated absurdly high
 542 2010-11-24 04:54:20 <Diablo-D3> like, 850w when you only use about half that
 543 2010-11-24 04:54:52 <Diablo-D3> and make sure its a thermally driven fan
 544 2010-11-24 04:54:59 <ArtForz> or something like this: http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/se-1500-12.shtml ;)
 545 2010-11-24 04:55:03 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139009
 546 2010-11-24 04:55:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hah
 547 2010-11-24 04:56:32 <ArtForz> yeah, in my current design I went with a ultra kaze supplying the PSU section
 548 2010-11-24 04:56:51 <Diablo-D3> you've seen the inside of a p180b right?
 549 2010-11-24 04:57:03 <Diablo-D3> psu is in an isolated air chamber with a 4 drive cage
 550 2010-11-24 04:57:07 <ArtForz> yep
 551 2010-11-24 04:57:11 <Diablo-D3> so that works for me
 552 2010-11-24 04:57:15 <Diablo-D3> I hope my psu never dies
 553 2010-11-24 04:57:23 <ArtForz> but the fan is comparatively puny
 554 2010-11-24 04:58:05 <ColonelPanic1> noticed something very disturbing about my laptop, the fans turn off when I close the lid
 555 2010-11-24 04:58:19 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: thats normalish
 556 2010-11-24 04:58:20 <ArtForz> sure, a 5W kaze aint a 30W delta, but it seems to help a lot
 557 2010-11-24 04:58:27 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: fans turn off when you sleep
 558 2010-11-24 04:58:32 <ColonelPanic1> Diablo-D3: not when it's still pumping out 100Mhash/s
 559 2010-11-24 04:58:32 <Diablo-D3> hrm
 560 2010-11-24 04:58:37 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011
 561 2010-11-24 04:58:49 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: your laptop should never be still awake when the lid is closed
 562 2010-11-24 04:58:56 <ColonelPanic1> why not?
 563 2010-11-24 04:59:03 <ColonelPanic1> sometimes I just have to close it to temporarily move it
 564 2010-11-24 04:59:13 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: because the keyboard is an important way of venting heat
 565 2010-11-24 04:59:15 <ArtForz> = compared to open air, PSU exhaust temps dropped like a rock when I added a closed shroud over the 2 PSUs fed by a ultra kaze 3000
 566 2010-11-24 04:59:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: lol
 567 2010-11-24 04:59:32 <ColonelPanic1> oh, I thought the giant ports in the front and back were for venting heat
 568 2010-11-24 05:00:29 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: I swear to god they're just for look
 569 2010-11-24 05:00:34 <Diablo-D3> laptops are so fucking badly designed
 570 2010-11-24 05:00:41 <Diablo-D3> doubly so if its hp/compaq or dell
 571 2010-11-24 05:00:52 <ColonelPanic1> I can feel the airflow going through it, man
 572 2010-11-24 05:01:00 <Diablo-D3> yeah because of the shitty fans
 573 2010-11-24 05:01:02 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: trust me
 574 2010-11-24 05:01:13 <Diablo-D3> do not close the lid while in operation if you dont have lid close->sleep on
 575 2010-11-24 05:01:17 <ColonelPanic1> I do, I don't think I'm going to leave this on unattended
 576 2010-11-24 05:01:42 <ColonelPanic1> wireless just got disconnected for no apparent reason
 577 2010-11-24 05:01:46 <ColonelPanic1> heat related?
 578 2010-11-24 05:02:26 <Diablo-D3> could be
 579 2010-11-24 05:02:40 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139015
 580 2010-11-24 05:02:43 <Diablo-D3> ooh
 581 2010-11-24 05:02:52 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014
 582 2010-11-24 05:02:52 <ColonelPanic1> thanks for the help, by the way
 583 2010-11-24 05:02:53 <Diablo-D3> ooh!
 584 2010-11-24 05:02:55 <Diablo-D3> there
 585 2010-11-24 05:02:58 <Diablo-D3> the ultimate PSU
 586 2010-11-24 05:03:26 <Diablo-D3> at 400 watts it should last like 20 years
 587 2010-11-24 05:04:37 <ArtForz> meh
 588 2010-11-24 05:04:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
 589 2010-11-24 05:05:00 <Diablo-D3> with such overkill
 590 2010-11-24 05:05:05 <Diablo-D3> with a thermally driven fan
 591 2010-11-24 05:05:09 <Diablo-D3> the fan should never have to turn on
 592 2010-11-24 05:06:07 <Diablo-D3> my pc power's 80mm is thermally driven, rarely turns on
 593 2010-11-24 05:06:28 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 594 2010-11-24 05:06:29 <Diablo-D3> 650 actual rated (not max), I use 350 max
 595 2010-11-24 05:06:40 <ArtForz> pfff
 596 2010-11-24 05:06:52 <Diablo-D3> you know whats depressing?
 597 2010-11-24 05:07:01 <Diablo-D3> coursair's ax series is their best
 598 2010-11-24 05:07:06 <ArtForz> my homebrew passive can do that
 599 2010-11-24 05:07:08 <Diablo-D3> their ax 650 is cheaper than mine
 600 2010-11-24 05:07:23 <Diablo-D3> actually, lets do a real comparison
 601 2010-11-24 05:07:27 <Diablo-D3> their ax 750 is cheaper than mine
 602 2010-11-24 05:07:34 <Diablo-D3> since my max is like 750
 603 2010-11-24 05:08:36 <ArtForz> $20 "650W" PSU, replaced heatsinks with beefy alu Ls, bolted the whole thing to a 5" x 10" heatsink from a dead plate amp
 604 2010-11-24 05:08:47 <Diablo-D3> hah
 605 2010-11-24 05:08:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
 606 2010-11-24 05:08:56 <Diablo-D3> you know what I wanna see?
 607 2010-11-24 05:09:03 <Diablo-D3> radical new psu designs
 608 2010-11-24 05:09:06 <ArtForz> it's been working in my media center PC for about 10 years
 609 2010-11-24 05:09:30 <Diablo-D3> say
 610 2010-11-24 05:09:39 <Diablo-D3> like
 611 2010-11-24 05:10:04 <Diablo-D3> a 92mm fan mounted like the 80 is
 612 2010-11-24 05:10:19 <ArtForz> can't do it, ATX PSU height is 86mm
 613 2010-11-24 05:10:27 <Diablo-D3> you can
 614 2010-11-24 05:10:34 <Diablo-D3> take the frame apart
 615 2010-11-24 05:10:46 <Diablo-D3> they have 92mm fans that JUST BARELY fit
 616 2010-11-24 05:11:11 <Diablo-D3> either that, or use two 60s
 617 2010-11-24 05:11:17 <Diablo-D3> and put the power plug in the middle not on the end
 618 2010-11-24 05:11:25 <ArtForz> or just use a 80x38 or 80x51 :P
 619 2010-11-24 05:11:35 <Diablo-D3> well I wanna maximize airflow
 620 2010-11-24 05:12:06 <ArtForz> erm... those are the kind of 80mms you usally see in 2Us
 621 2010-11-24 05:12:51 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but the slight problem with 80mm is you cant cover the entire board
 622 2010-11-24 05:12:57 <Diablo-D3> you have a 80mm wide channel
 623 2010-11-24 05:13:08 <ArtForz> which should be plenty
 624 2010-11-24 05:13:14 <Diablo-D3> this is why they mistakenly chose 120/140 top fans
 625 2010-11-24 05:13:48 <ArtForz> the only parts that really heat up are the power semiconductors and the main transformer
 626 2010-11-24 05:14:01 <Diablo-D3> yes BUT
 627 2010-11-24 05:14:05 <Diablo-D3> you now have more room
 628 2010-11-24 05:14:30 <ArtForz> btw, if you shave em a bit 2x80 should also fit
 629 2010-11-24 05:14:41 <Diablo-D3> eeeh Im not seeing it
 630 2010-11-24 05:14:48 <ArtForz> ATX = 150mm width
 631 2010-11-24 05:14:57 <Diablo-D3> 80 + 80 = 160
 632 2010-11-24 05:15:02 <ArtForz> 92 > 86
 633 2010-11-24 05:15:03 <Diablo-D3> about 140 if you take them out of the frames
 634 2010-11-24 05:15:07 <ArtForz> yep
 635 2010-11-24 05:15:20 <Diablo-D3> oh wait
 636 2010-11-24 05:15:21 <ArtForz> so you could put 2 80s in a figure-8-ish common frame
 637 2010-11-24 05:15:25 <Diablo-D3> if I put them on the intake side
 638 2010-11-24 05:15:31 <ArtForz> yeah
 639 2010-11-24 05:15:35 <Diablo-D3> huh
 640 2010-11-24 05:15:36 <Diablo-D3> that could work
 641 2010-11-24 05:15:44 <Diablo-D3> it'd also suck all the fucking air out of the case
 642 2010-11-24 05:15:47 <Diablo-D3> if they go on high
 643 2010-11-24 05:16:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you know what else I wanna see?
 644 2010-11-24 05:16:18 <Diablo-D3> a bias screw
 645 2010-11-24 05:16:26 <ArtForz> a what?
 646 2010-11-24 05:16:34 <Diablo-D3> a knob you turn to make the fans go on earlier
 647 2010-11-24 05:16:41 <ArtForz> ahhh...yeah, that would rule
 648 2010-11-24 05:16:52 <Diablo-D3> so just turn it to 11, and the fans go full speed 24/7
 649 2010-11-24 05:17:08 <ArtForz> because most current designs seem happy running their fan at 60% or so while exhaust air temp is > 70°C
 650 2010-11-24 05:17:14 <Diablo-D3> well
 651 2010-11-24 05:17:17 <Diablo-D3> its thermally driven
 652 2010-11-24 05:17:17 <Diablo-D3> ie
 653 2010-11-24 05:17:19 <Diablo-D3> THEIR thermals
 654 2010-11-24 05:17:40 <Diablo-D3> a better design would be measure intake air temp and the temp of your psu
 655 2010-11-24 05:17:58 <ArtForz> yeah, they're going "power semiconductors are oversized and should be fine at < 100°C heatsink temp"
 656 2010-11-24 05:18:10 <Diablo-D3> yeah pretty much
 657 2010-11-24 05:18:16 <Diablo-D3> which is why I said overkill the wattage
 658 2010-11-24 05:18:27 <Diablo-D3> if your psu design sucks, a 1200 psu is going to last forever at 400 watts
 659 2010-11-24 05:18:35 <ArtForz> they are, but you're slow-cooking the damn electrolytics when you keep interior temp at a constant 70°C+
 660 2010-11-24 05:19:06 <Diablo-D3> yeah
 661 2010-11-24 05:19:17 <Diablo-D3> which is double fucked when you realize you're doing that to shit that actually matters
 662 2010-11-24 05:19:27 <Diablo-D3> since if the intake air is hot, its not being vented right
 663 2010-11-24 05:19:30 <ArtForz> yep
 664 2010-11-24 05:19:38 <Diablo-D3> ergo
 665 2010-11-24 05:19:41 <Diablo-D3> 2x 80mm oriented right
 666 2010-11-24 05:19:44 <ArtForz> well, ATX case airflow = major WTf in itself
 667 2010-11-24 05:19:47 <Diablo-D3> measure intake temp
 668 2010-11-24 05:19:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: not quite
 669 2010-11-24 05:19:53 <Diablo-D3> well
 670 2010-11-24 05:19:55 <Diablo-D3> MINE is
 671 2010-11-24 05:20:03 <Diablo-D3> since I'm now venting the two hottest components in the box out the top
 672 2010-11-24 05:20:46 <Diablo-D3> if I designed a computer
 673 2010-11-24 05:20:51 <Diablo-D3> I think, for one, I'd make it skinnier
 674 2010-11-24 05:21:04 <Diablo-D3> make it like 2u width
 675 2010-11-24 05:21:05 <ArtForz> I much prefer defined airflow channels
 676 2010-11-24 05:21:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well wait
 677 2010-11-24 05:21:14 <Diablo-D3> 2u width
 678 2010-11-24 05:21:16 <Diablo-D3> put PSU sideways
 679 2010-11-24 05:21:25 <Diablo-D3> take fans off of everything
 680 2010-11-24 05:21:28 <Diablo-D3> make everything flat
 681 2010-11-24 05:21:34 <Diablo-D3> and make everything one giant air channel
 682 2010-11-24 05:21:39 <Diablo-D3> and line the back with fans
 683 2010-11-24 05:21:42 <ArtForz> that would also work
 684 2010-11-24 05:22:01 <ArtForz> it's pretty much how a lot of industrial power electronics is designed
 685 2010-11-24 05:22:32 <Diablo-D3> thats how the first AT basically was
 686 2010-11-24 05:22:40 <Diablo-D3> the cpu was infront of the psu
 687 2010-11-24 05:22:43 <ArtForz> make the whole power section one big air channel and slap a fan (or half a dozen) at each end
 688 2010-11-24 05:22:47 <Diablo-D3> and it had a plain finned heatsink
 689 2010-11-24 05:22:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
 690 2010-11-24 05:22:57 <Diablo-D3> look at 1Us
 691 2010-11-24 05:23:03 <Diablo-D3> thats exactly how the psu is
 692 2010-11-24 05:23:10 <Diablo-D3> it air channels the whole way from the front
 693 2010-11-24 05:23:17 <ArtForz> btw, most P3-era slim desktops were cooled like this
 694 2010-11-24 05:23:18 <Diablo-D3> and nothing goes infront of it except maybe a drive
 695 2010-11-24 05:23:28 <Diablo-D3> this is how a wii is cooled
 696 2010-11-24 05:23:36 <Diablo-D3> the wii is kind of the design you'd want
 697 2010-11-24 05:23:42 <Diablo-D3> except its a tad too skinny
 698 2010-11-24 05:24:03 <Diablo-D3> needs to be a bit fatter to put 80mm fans and bigger heatsink fins
 699 2010-11-24 05:24:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: also
 700 2010-11-24 05:24:16 <Diablo-D3> heatpipes could work well here
 701 2010-11-24 05:24:40 <ArtForz> yep
 702 2010-11-24 05:24:41 <Diablo-D3> heatpipe the hottest components away from everything to the physically top channel
 703 2010-11-24 05:25:52 <ArtForz> yep
 704 2010-11-24 05:26:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: see
 705 2010-11-24 05:26:09 <Diablo-D3> this is why I dont work for the computer indutsry
 706 2010-11-24 05:26:17 <Diablo-D3> I'd cure computer cancer and computer aids
 707 2010-11-24 05:27:35 <ColonelPanic1> how well will m0mchil's miner work over the internet, not on a LAN?
 708 2010-11-24 05:27:43 <ColonelPanic1> or other situations with high latency
 709 2010-11-24 05:27:55 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: not worth it
 710 2010-11-24 05:28:03 <theymos> Bitcoin Block Explorer has moved: http://blockexplorer.com/
 711 2010-11-24 05:28:04 <ColonelPanic1> but why
 712 2010-11-24 05:28:11 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: the miner goes dead if it cant contact bitcoind
 713 2010-11-24 05:28:18 <ArtForz> theymos: great
 714 2010-11-24 05:28:50 <nanotube> theymos: 301 redirects shouldn't be a problem... but let's see.
 715 2010-11-24 05:28:51 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
 716 2010-11-24 05:28:52 <Kiba> So, I have a crappy website that I attempted to theme.
 717 2010-11-24 05:28:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 93532 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 1220 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 8 hours, 17 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6971.07111698
 718 2010-11-24 05:29:57 blablaa has quit ()
 719 2010-11-24 05:30:10 <nanotube> but i guess to reduce latency, i can update the links... everything stays the same except for the domain, theymos ?
 720 2010-11-24 05:30:22 <theymos> Yes.
 721 2010-11-24 05:30:33 <theymos> Different port, too.
 722 2010-11-24 05:31:53 <nanotube> right. :)
 723 2010-11-24 05:32:03 * nanotube goes about updating the urls...
 724 2010-11-24 05:33:32 <ColonelPanic1> Diablo-D3: hmm, but it does auto-reconnect
 725 2010-11-24 05:34:46 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: yes
 726 2010-11-24 05:34:52 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: but why bother mining if you're going to screw it up
 727 2010-11-24 05:36:20 <ColonelPanic1> now it sends all of the completed work back to bitcoind immediately, right?
 728 2010-11-24 05:36:24 <nanotube> theymos: thanks for the heads-up, all done. :)
 729 2010-11-24 05:36:48 <ColonelPanic1> I was just wondering, because my laptop often leaves home
 730 2010-11-24 05:37:16 <Diablo-D3> ColonelPanic1: erm
 731 2010-11-24 05:37:21 <Diablo-D3> just run bitcoind on your laptop
 732 2010-11-24 05:39:18 kermit has joined
 733 2010-11-24 05:59:36 <Kiba> economic reasoning is horribly easy to get wrong
 734 2010-11-24 06:00:06 <Kiba> yet any fool notice that deflation ain't all that bad once you look at computers
 735 2010-11-24 06:01:26 <bd_> the drop in computer prices isn't deflation
 736 2010-11-24 06:01:40 <bd_> deflation is when the price for _EVERYTHING_ drops
 737 2010-11-24 06:02:13 <bd_> which means people avoid investing, and simply hang on to their money
 738 2010-11-24 06:02:18 <bd_> which slows down economic growth
 739 2010-11-24 06:03:15 <Kiba> The value of bitcoin bounty rises, increasing the incentives for people to spend their time
 740 2010-11-24 06:03:48 <Kiba> but people will offer less money for new bounties.
 741 2010-11-24 06:07:47 <Kiba> bd_: I decide that your reasoning is correct.
 742 2010-11-24 06:12:17 <ColonelPanic1> wow man
 743 2010-11-24 06:14:12 <Kiba> wow, what?
 744 2010-11-24 06:14:40 <Kiba> Hmm,
 745 2010-11-24 06:14:50 <Kiba> I got this big tome called Man Economy and the State.
 746 2010-11-24 06:15:02 <ColonelPanic1> can't get on here through tor...
 747 2010-11-24 06:16:43 <nanotube> bd_: by your reasoning, then, people would avoid investing in computers, since they expect the price to drop ?
 748 2010-11-24 06:17:47 <Kiba> TIME PREFERENCE THEORY STRIKE
 749 2010-11-24 06:23:31 <bd_> nanotube: people expect computers to drop in price, but computers have a high utility anyway
 750 2010-11-24 06:23:47 <bd_> alternately, you could say there's a high opportunity cost for not buying them
 751 2010-11-24 06:23:58 <bd_> the thing about investments, though, is with price deflation, the value of your investment drops
 752 2010-11-24 06:24:14 <bd_> and the only point to making an investment is because you expect the price to go up (and/or interest)
 753 2010-11-24 06:24:23 <nanotube> bd_: yes... so what you are saying that in the case of general deflation... people will only buy things with high utility? oh the horror, what will become of the useless crappy trinkets industry!!?
 754 2010-11-24 06:24:31 <bd_> by having the price and interest drop on your investment, you might not get a return
 755 2010-11-24 06:24:41 <bd_> nanotube: No, I mean that people won't invest in _new_ businesses
 756 2010-11-24 06:24:57 <nanotube> they will, if they expect the new business to generate a return in excess of the rate of deflation.
 757 2010-11-24 06:24:58 <bd_> because they expect the price of that business to drop faster than it makes profit (= a loss for the investor)
 758 2010-11-24 06:25:15 <bd_> nanotube: Right. So the more deflation, the higher that barrier to investment.
 759 2010-11-24 06:25:47 <nanotube> yes... but things reach an equilibrium. if there's no investment, fewer goods get created, prices go up
 760 2010-11-24 06:25:51 <Kiba> doesn't sound horrible.
 761 2010-11-24 06:26:04 <bd_> Sure, eventually. But until it reaches equilibrium, you can have a recession
 762 2010-11-24 06:26:06 <Kiba> I mean, inflations would encourage crappy investment
 763 2010-11-24 06:26:23 <Kiba> and more risk taking
 764 2010-11-24 06:26:34 <Kiba> but deflation would encourage more conservative investment and less investment
 765 2010-11-24 06:26:35 <nanotube> bd_: sure you could... and of course, if we have inflation instead of deflation, we never have those, right?
 766 2010-11-24 06:27:05 <bd_> nanotube: Sure you can. :) I'm just saying too much of anything can be a bad thing.
 767 2010-11-24 06:27:19 <bd_> A small amount of inflation can help encourage investment
 768 2010-11-24 06:27:22 <Kiba> when the economy grows, it's not a bad thing.
 769 2010-11-24 06:27:34 <Kiba> deflationary economic growth.
 770 2010-11-24 06:27:40 <Kiba> which is happening right now.
 771 2010-11-24 06:27:45 <nanotube> in general, inflation encourages people to invest, at the margin, in shitty projects, just to try to make up for inflation. then when things go kaboom because there has been overinvestment, you have a crash.
 772 2010-11-24 06:27:46 <bd_> A large amount of inflation... well, it can destroy your currency.
 773 2010-11-24 06:27:56 <bd_> nanotube: That's when there's too much inflation :)
 774 2010-11-24 06:28:07 <Kiba> people are investing right now
 775 2010-11-24 06:28:15 <Kiba> but they're not doing capital intensive projects
 776 2010-11-24 06:28:21 <Kiba> they're doing things like web services, etc
 777 2010-11-24 06:28:22 <nanotube> in deflation, there's a larger barrier to investment, so you shouldn't get that much irrational overinvestment.
 778 2010-11-24 06:28:32 <nanotube> so arguably, deflation would be conducive to more stability.
 779 2010-11-24 06:28:33 <bd_> But too little inflation can be a bad thing too. Investment groups build up too much money, can't find anywhere to put it, and start investing in crappy projects.
 780 2010-11-24 06:29:16 <bd_> Assuming there's still enough inflation for investment to make sense at all
 781 2010-11-24 06:29:38 <nanotube> i'd argue that any investment that is caused solely by inflation is superfluous investment.
 782 2010-11-24 06:29:46 <Kiba> with deflation, it might make more sense to make smaller investment in less intensive capital projects
 783 2010-11-24 06:29:53 <bd_> nanotube: Nothing is caused _solely_ by inflation :)
 784 2010-11-24 06:30:04 <Kiba> and you could spread your investment over several businesss
 785 2010-11-24 06:30:08 <nanotube> bd_: at the margin, sure there is.
 786 2010-11-24 06:30:11 <bd_> The point I'm trying to make is too much of either is a bad thing
 787 2010-11-24 06:30:52 <nanotube> bd_: yes, 'too much' of anything, by definition, is bad :) the question is, is an inflationary regime or a deflationary regime more conducive to economic stability
 788 2010-11-24 06:31:25 <bd_> Perhaps alternating between the two would be a good idea :)
 789 2010-11-24 06:31:37 <nanotube> it is far from a foregone conclusion, imho, that inflation creates more stability than deflation, assuming 'moderate' amounts of both.
 790 2010-11-24 06:31:46 <Kiba> let the market work it out
 791 2010-11-24 06:32:00 <bd_> Kiba: when you do that bubbles happen :)
 792 2010-11-24 06:32:18 <nanotube> i'd argue that with 'moderate' deflation, with a higher threshold return for investment, the economy is more stable.
 793 2010-11-24 06:32:40 <Kiba> economic intervention make recovery slower, not faster
 794 2010-11-24 06:32:46 <Kiba> plus, they don't know shit.
 795 2010-11-24 06:32:57 <bd_> Kiba: People like to say that, but what do you think would happen if they just let all the banks collapse? :/
 796 2010-11-24 06:33:14 <Kiba> banks collapses because they practice fractional reserve.
 797 2010-11-24 06:33:15 <Kiba> no shit.
 798 2010-11-24 06:33:23 <nanotube> bd_: some banks would survive, and take over the niches that the failed banks left.
 799 2010-11-24 06:33:38 <bd_> nanotube: But in the meantime, you'd be left with very little lending for a very long time
 800 2010-11-24 06:33:54 <bd_> Which is exactly what causes a depression
 801 2010-11-24 06:33:57 <Kiba> we have no saving to back it up anyway. It's an illusion.
 802 2010-11-24 06:34:07 <bd_> Kiba: All money is an illusion
 803 2010-11-24 06:34:09 <nanotube> bd_: well, one might argue that there was /too much/ lending before. :)
 804 2010-11-24 06:34:18 <bd_> nanotube: Sure, but too little is quite bad too
 805 2010-11-24 06:34:19 <Kiba> I call it reality.
 806 2010-11-24 06:34:40 <nanotube> as an analogy, once you are used to breathing pure oxygen, it sucks to go back to normal air. :)
 807 2010-11-24 06:35:05 <nanotube> bd_: yes... once the pit is dug, it's best to get out of it slowly.
 808 2010-11-24 06:35:19 <Kiba> high saving rate = cheaper interest = greater economic investment
 809 2010-11-24 06:35:23 <nanotube> but it would have been better if you didn't dig the pit in the first place.
 810 2010-11-24 06:35:40 <bd_> nanotube: Of course. but bubble happen :/
 811 2010-11-24 06:35:42 <bd_> bubbles*
 812 2010-11-24 06:35:52 <bd_> they've been happening for hundreds of years, and they're not going to stop anytime soon
 813 2010-11-24 06:36:18 <nanotube> yes... so what... such is life.
 814 2010-11-24 06:36:39 <bd_> I can see why people don't like bank bailouts though
 815 2010-11-24 06:37:02 <bd_> it's the bank's fault for making those bad loans, why should we be bailing them out, right?
 816 2010-11-24 06:37:19 <Kiba> it's some people's money that was put in bank.
 817 2010-11-24 06:37:23 <bd_> But losing too many banks all at once is a huge shock to the economy
 818 2010-11-24 06:37:26 <Kiba> but the bank was irresponsible in the first place.
 819 2010-11-24 06:37:28 <Kiba> what to do?
 820 2010-11-24 06:37:52 <Kiba> but if you bailout the banks, it won't teach any lesson to the savers not to put their money into banks
 821 2010-11-24 06:37:55 <bd_> Kiba: Save the banks. It's more important to fix the economy than get revenge.
 822 2010-11-24 06:38:12 <bd_> Then put in regulations to fix it
 823 2010-11-24 06:38:12 <Kiba> bd_: moral hazard.
 824 2010-11-24 06:38:18 <bd_> Or punish the execs directly
 825 2010-11-24 06:38:23 <Kiba> regulations will get twisted
 826 2010-11-24 06:38:37 <Kiba> people are lazy to check if their bank can be trusted
 827 2010-11-24 06:38:38 <bd_> But don't let the banks fail outright, unless you want to see a depression occuring
 828 2010-11-24 06:38:48 <Kiba> you fail them, just like any other business.
 829 2010-11-24 06:39:03 <bd_> Kiba: People don't check whether their bank can be trusted, because the gov't will repay the individuals
 830 2010-11-24 06:39:15 <bd_> it's just the sudden reduction in lending _will_ kill the economy
 831 2010-11-24 06:39:32 <nanotube> bd_: well, bank bailouts are a rather different discussion from inflationary/deflationary regimes. :) fwiw, i agree that letting a whole bunch of banks fail outright would have been not very wise.
 832 2010-11-24 06:39:56 <Kiba> if your business is based on borrowing money you're dead.
 833 2010-11-24 06:40:03 <bd_> that said, you could punish the bank's _investors_
 834 2010-11-24 06:40:03 <Kiba> if your business is based on cashflow, you probably live.
 835 2010-11-24 06:40:15 <bd_> ie, force the bank to create tons of shares, and have the gov't take them
 836 2010-11-24 06:40:28 <bd_> thus diluting the shareholder's equity
 837 2010-11-24 06:40:32 <Kiba> as long as price adjustment can be made and resource are reallocated
 838 2010-11-24 06:40:47 <Kiba> but the problem: structural deficency in employment market.
 839 2010-11-24 06:40:48 <bd_> Kiba: Lots of business are based on borrowing money safely, you know?
 840 2010-11-24 06:40:55 <nanotube> bd_: punishing investors/managers, possibly by way of letting creditors take over, as in bankruptcy, would probably be a good happy medium.
 841 2010-11-24 06:41:09 <bd_> Businesses take out lines of credit to buy inventory, pay them back with the proceeds, etc.
 842 2010-11-24 06:42:32 <Kiba> I am a cashflow kind of guy. I don't get loans unless I can pay them off.
 843 2010-11-24 06:42:58 <nanotube> right... technically businesses should do the same. :)
 844 2010-11-24 06:43:19 <nanotube> but in a free market, there's nothing to stop a business from taking on too much debt - only the due diligence from the creditors themselves.
 845 2010-11-24 06:43:47 <Kiba> nanotube: sure, if you think you can grow big.
 846 2010-11-24 06:43:53 <Kiba> but me, I don't have that kind of risk tolerance.
 847 2010-11-24 06:43:55 <bd_> _some_ debt isn't necessarily a bad idea - the question is if the business can make money faster than the bank could on its own
 848 2010-11-24 06:45:11 <Kiba> my process is to generate positive cashflow, save some of them for raining day, and generate some more
 849 2010-11-24 06:45:54 <bd_> Sure, it's nice if you can do that :)
 850 2010-11-24 06:45:59 <bd_> Some businesses can indeed operate that way
 851 2010-11-24 06:46:09 <bd_> Lots of web applications, for example.
 852 2010-11-24 06:46:16 <bd_> Capital-intensive businesses have a harder time
 853 2010-11-24 06:46:16 <Kiba> bd_: not saying that people should operate my way
 854 2010-11-24 06:46:38 <bd_> fair enough, then
 855 2010-11-24 06:47:48 <Kiba> what we have here though, is a market totally unregulated.
 856 2010-11-24 06:48:11 <bd_> actually, the banking market is very heavily regulated
 857 2010-11-24 06:48:19 <bd_> the problem is the banks are good at finding loopholes
 858 2010-11-24 06:48:22 <Kiba> bd_: not the bitcoin economy
 859 2010-11-24 06:48:29 <bd_> oh, the bitcoin market
 860 2010-11-24 06:48:35 <bd_> Actually ,some of the same regulations may still apply
 861 2010-11-24 06:48:43 <Kiba> the problem of regulations is unintended consequence and finding a way for devils to run the regulatory agency
 862 2010-11-24 06:48:52 <bd_> The bitcoin market's not yet big enough for enforcement to take place
 863 2010-11-24 06:49:16 <Kiba> there should be no enforcement. It would be a natural experiment.
 864 2010-11-24 06:49:42 <bd_> Kiba: Incidentally, there have been examples of bank crashes in certain online games
 865 2010-11-24 06:49:52 <bd_> google for the ginko bank incident in second life
 866 2010-11-24 06:50:28 <bd_> basically, since there was no regulation, ginko bank became way too overleveraged, there was a bank run, and, well, you can probably guess the rest
 867 2010-11-24 06:51:14 <nanotube> Kiba: some regulations are necessary for the 'free market' to operate well. most notably, those regarding disclosure. free market fails when there's information asymmetry (or plain fraud)
 868 2010-11-24 06:51:21 <Kiba> fractional reserve banking
 869 2010-11-24 06:51:48 <Diablo-D3> s/fractional/fictional/
 870 2010-11-24 06:51:49 <Diablo-D3> dohohoho
 871 2010-11-24 06:52:09 <nanotube> fractional reserve is fine - as long as there's full disclosure, and healthy competition.
 872 2010-11-24 06:52:26 <bd_> nanotube: and regulations to protect the depositors
 873 2010-11-24 06:52:45 <nanotube> as iirc i mentioned before, people can choose between full-reserve, and actually /paying/ the bank for the safekeeping of the currency, or fractional reserve, and getting interest on deposits... or anything in between.
 874 2010-11-24 06:53:16 <nanotube> bd_: what kind of regulations to protect depositors, other than full disclosure of what the bank is doing with depositors' money, is needed?
 875 2010-11-24 06:53:28 <bd_> nanotube: limitations on leverage, for one
 876 2010-11-24 06:53:29 <nanotube> (assuming contract law is in effect)
 877 2010-11-24 06:53:37 <bd_> A bank can't lend out _all_ of its deposits
 878 2010-11-24 06:53:49 maqr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 879 2010-11-24 06:54:04 <Kiba> if people are dumb enough to do business with banks that lend out all of its deposits, let them do it.
 880 2010-11-24 06:54:11 <bd_> Kiba: people _are_ that dumb
 881 2010-11-24 06:54:12 <nanotube> bd_: i'd say no to that. i as a depositor should be able to decide if i want to deposit in bankA, which lends out 80 %, and pays say, 3% interest, and bankB, which lends out 99%, and pays 5%
 882 2010-11-24 06:54:19 <bd_> Kiba: This is one of the things that caused the great depression
 883 2010-11-24 06:54:29 <nanotube> bd_: as long as depositors are aware of the terms ex-ante, there's no need to regulate reserve requirement.
 884 2010-11-24 06:54:40 <bd_> nanotube: People _don't read_ the terms :)
 885 2010-11-24 06:55:00 <nanotube> yes... whose fault is that? :)
 886 2010-11-24 06:55:05 <bd_> nanotube: Human nature
 887 2010-11-24 06:55:13 <bd_> If a single person makes a mistake, it's their own damn fault
 888 2010-11-24 06:55:36 <jgarzik> grumble.  we need an easynet
 889 2010-11-24 06:55:37 <nanotube> well, 'full disclosure' should be such that the most salient and important bits of information are indeed made salient, rather than buried.
 890 2010-11-24 06:55:42 <bd_> If _everyone_ makes the same mistake, it's a flaw in the design of the human brain, and we should probably prevent people from being ruined by it.
 891 2010-11-24 06:55:52 <jgarzik> a genesis block that permits easy proof of work for a miner
 892 2010-11-24 06:55:53 <bd_> nanotube: People still won't read it
 893 2010-11-24 06:56:13 <bd_> Even if you have 99.99% leveraged - THIS IS REALLY DANGEROUS... BUT YOU GET A 200% INTEREST RATE!!!!!!!1!
 894 2010-11-24 06:56:19 <bd_> people will buy into it
 895 2010-11-24 06:56:29 <Kiba> a sucker is born every minute
 896 2010-11-24 06:56:42 <bd_> Kiba: This is why we have laws against fraud
 897 2010-11-24 06:56:49 <bd_> And regulations for banking
 898 2010-11-24 06:56:57 <Kiba> bd_: but it's not fraud if you state that you're going to do risky things liek that
 899 2010-11-24 06:57:14 <Kiba> bd_: but regulations are easy to skirts and the agents are the devil, and regulation cause unintended consequence.
 900 2010-11-24 06:57:18 <bd_> Anyway. The point is, the average person makes stupid mistakes like that
 901 2010-11-24 06:57:21 <nanotube> bd_: well, it is somewhat a subjective place where you draw the line at "protecting people from their own stupidity" and "letting nature take its course"
 902 2010-11-24 06:57:45 <bd_> The regulations are put into place to try to protect people from their stupidity. You can argue whether that's a good thing or not, I suppose.
 903 2010-11-24 06:58:19 <nanotube> yes i can. :)
 904 2010-11-24 06:58:42 <bd_> Kiba: Regulation isn't easy to skirt. It's really hard to skirt. But banks have a strong motivation to get around them, and the resources to hire the very best lawyers and accountants.
 905 2010-11-24 06:58:50 <bd_> It looks easy in retrospect, of course.
 906 2010-11-24 06:59:20 <nanotube> bd_: i suppose my pov would be that you protect people from their own stupidity, when that stupidity would harm /someone else/ as well.
 907 2010-11-24 06:59:44 <bd_> nanotube: When a large fraction of the population loses their entire savings, it's bad for EVERYONE
 908 2010-11-24 06:59:58 <bd_> When loaning stops, and capital-heavy businesses have to cut back sharply, it's bad for EVERYONE
 909 2010-11-24 07:00:39 <Kiba> I heard capital markets are hard to do right
 910 2010-11-24 07:01:04 <bd_> And when 51% of your voters are hurt, you have a strong incentive to protect them.
 911 2010-11-24 07:01:31 <Kiba> President Hoover and Rooselvets spend a lot of money...
 912 2010-11-24 07:03:02 <nanotube> bd_: well, that's the current argument. i'm a bit on the fence about it, though. i might go for something like requiring a person to demonstrate sound logical reasoning and financial education by means of taking a test, before allowing them to invest in anything above a certain riskiness threshold.
 913 2010-11-24 07:03:24 <bd_> nanotube: Actually, there are some restrictions on high-risk investments, such as startups
 914 2010-11-24 07:03:26 <nanotube> that would of course bring with it some logistics problems.
 915 2010-11-24 07:03:33 <bd_> google for "institutional investors"
 916 2010-11-24 07:03:35 <nanotube> so what they do instead is measure by net worth. :)
 917 2010-11-24 07:03:49 <bd_> yep. The idea being it won't hurt you too much if you screw up
 918 2010-11-24 07:03:51 <nanotube> yea i know all about that.
 919 2010-11-24 07:03:58 <nanotube> s/all/some/ :P
 920 2010-11-24 07:04:49 <nanotube> the problem that bugs me is that i, as a relatively-low-net-worth individual, should be able to invest some 'discretionary' portion of my wealth into the riskier investments.
 921 2010-11-24 07:05:08 <Kiba> interseting data, bd_
 922 2010-11-24 07:05:17 <nanotube> i'm smart enough not to throw it all out there. but i might want to do it with some amount of 'play' money. :)
 923 2010-11-24 07:05:39 <bd_> nanotube: Startups aren't interested in your $500 :)
 924 2010-11-24 07:05:42 <Kiba> it didn't say it cause collapse of second life economy
 925 2010-11-24 07:07:03 <nanotube> bd_: yes, but they may be intrested in $10m, coming from an 'aggregator' of many $500s :)
 926 2010-11-24 07:07:12 <nanotube> which is currently impossible, due to regulations
 927 2010-11-24 07:07:16 <bd_> nanotube: Those are called mutual funds, I think :)
 928 2010-11-24 07:07:41 <Kiba> spectulation is...essentially gambling.
 929 2010-11-24 07:07:44 <nanotube> mutual funds can't invest in startups. those are called hedge funds. and hedgefunds are limited to high-net-worth individuals.
 930 2010-11-24 07:07:57 <bd_> ah.
 931 2010-11-24 07:08:03 <nanotube> or venture capital funds
 932 2010-11-24 07:08:04 <bd_> Can mutual funds invest in hedge funds? >.>
 933 2010-11-24 07:08:08 <nanotube> same restriction.
 934 2010-11-24 07:08:15 <bd_> interesting
 935 2010-11-24 07:08:31 <nanotube> bd_: i'm not sure about that last question...
 936 2010-11-24 07:08:37 <nanotube> but i suspect the answer is no.
 937 2010-11-24 07:08:42 <Kiba> Banks in the 19th century knew that when they lent out their customer's money, a run could and at times was orchestrated against them by rivals.
 938 2010-11-24 07:08:48 <Kiba> an interesting comment at the bottom
 939 2010-11-24 07:08:53 <Kiba> but mostly crap though
 940 2010-11-24 07:09:01 <Kiba> that bit is intersting, the rest was crap
 941 2010-11-24 07:09:31 <Kiba> he does make a point about virtual world scarcity doesn't exist though
 942 2010-11-24 07:09:48 <Kiba> bitcoin is actually scarce too, but's it's a different kind of scarcity too
 943 2010-11-24 07:09:58 <bd_> There's artificial scarcity, and it seems to be enough that some people in SL can make money
 944 2010-11-24 07:10:00 <Kiba> faux-scarcity.
 945 2010-11-24 07:10:13 <bd_> but I'm not sure if lending makes sense, since SL businesses aren't capital intensive
 946 2010-11-24 07:10:17 <bd_> it makes more sense in something like eve
 947 2010-11-24 07:10:21 <Kiba> bd_: it make sense to rent lands...but maybe not goods and objects
 948 2010-11-24 07:10:50 <Kiba> some players have the time to climb the ranks and then destroy company assets
 949 2010-11-24 07:11:16 <Kiba> an example..of...a very good scammers..but we're all vulnerable to that.
 950 2010-11-24 07:11:17 <bd_> eve is actually a pretty good example of a mostly unregulated free-market economy, actually
 951 2010-11-24 07:11:35 <bd_> Of course ... there is vigilante regulation, of a sort
 952 2010-11-24 07:15:29 <Kiba> hmm
 953 2010-11-24 07:15:50 <Kiba> it would be very hard to get legislators aligned with the effort to make an economy grows
 954 2010-11-24 07:16:07 <Kiba> human sucks.
 955 2010-11-24 07:16:28 <bd_> You could try giving them a bonus based on the GDP.... but that just encourages short-term growth spurts, followed by a crash after they get out of office
 956 2010-11-24 07:16:39 <nanotube> unfortunately, legislators tend to only be in it for their own profit.
 957 2010-11-24 07:16:41 <bd_> So maybe a bonus 10 years later based on the GDP growth over that period
 958 2010-11-24 07:17:22 <nanotube> profit == bribes, under the table deals, book deals after the fact, networking in business to get cushy positions afterwards, etc.
 959 2010-11-24 07:17:24 <Kiba> sound goods, but there's no such thing as a free lunch
 960 2010-11-24 07:18:03 <nanotube> bd_: guess what i'll do if i'm a politician and i get compensated in a bonus based on gdp growth? i'll be printing some serious money. :)
 961 2010-11-24 07:18:21 <bd_> GDP growth, adjusted for inflation :)
 962 2010-11-24 07:18:22 <nanotube> gdp grew from 10 trillion to 12 trillion. 20 % growth \o/ profit
 963 2010-11-24 07:18:39 <nanotube> bd_: yea, and how do we measure inflation? it is some... gasp ... government agency, isn't it? :)
 964 2010-11-24 07:18:52 <Kiba> oooooooooh. shit.
 965 2010-11-24 07:19:00 <bd_> actually, if there's inflation... that makes their bonus worth less, right? :)
 966 2010-11-24 07:19:09 <bd_> sounds self-balancing to me
 967 2010-11-24 07:19:13 <nanotube> i mean, inflation is already a highly shady figure at best. guess how much shadier it'll be.
 968 2010-11-24 07:19:17 <Kiba> if they are close to the printing press, they'll benefit.
 969 2010-11-24 07:19:43 <theymos> BBE supports encryption now: https://blockexplorer.com
 970 2010-11-24 07:19:50 <bd_> Or you could measure it based on some other currency (let them choose which currency to use when they're elected in)
 971 2010-11-24 07:20:05 <bd_> as long as everyone picks different currencies you should be good
 972 2010-11-24 07:20:12 <Kiba> ?
 973 2010-11-24 07:20:13 <nanotube> bd_: to a point. say you have 0 gdp growth, you get nothing, right? now, say you have 10% growth, just because you inflated. now you get "something". though it may be less valuable now that there's been inflation, it's still bigger than nothing.
 974 2010-11-24 07:20:47 <bd_> nanotube: You'd have no growth if you measured based on a foreign currency
 975 2010-11-24 07:20:47 <nanotube> theymos: nice. :)
 976 2010-11-24 07:20:51 <Kiba> if you decentralize money production, like bitcoin does
 977 2010-11-24 07:20:54 <Kiba> then they can't do that
 978 2010-11-24 07:21:05 <nanotube> bd_: unless you got in a devaluation war with said foreign currency. :)
 979 2010-11-24 07:21:21 <nanotube> bd_: i'm the legislator, i'll be choosing nigerian currency as my measuring stick
 980 2010-11-24 07:21:27 <Kiba> then of course, they will manipulate the currency to benefit them
 981 2010-11-24 07:21:30 <nanotube> since i expect them to be inflating at 50% per year.
 982 2010-11-24 07:21:32 <bd_> hmm, point :)
 983 2010-11-24 07:21:38 <Kiba> err
 984 2010-11-24 07:21:40 <Kiba> manipulate
 985 2010-11-24 07:21:41 <Kiba> the statistics
 986 2010-11-24 07:21:46 <Kiba> incentives matter
 987 2010-11-24 07:21:50 <Kiba> but incentives are hard to get right
 988 2010-11-24 07:22:09 <nanotube> bd_: it's an interesting idea, though :) but there are some implementation problems. :)
 989 2010-11-24 07:22:29 <nanotube> bd_: also, considering the fact that most compensation to a politician is not of direct monetary kind, anyway...
 990 2010-11-24 07:22:43 <jgarzik> poor testnet.  many hours between blocks.
 991 2010-11-24 07:23:56 <bd_> One option would be to forbid politicians from working anywhere else after retirement, and just pay them a fixed percentage of GDP
 992 2010-11-24 07:24:05 <bd_> a bit extreme, admittedly
 993 2010-11-24 07:24:12 <Kiba> they'll find sneaky way around that
 994 2010-11-24 07:24:36 <bd_> Kiba: Nah, they'll just never vote it in in the first place :)
 995 2010-11-24 07:24:58 <Kiba> yup
 996 2010-11-24 07:25:01 <Kiba> human sucks
 997 2010-11-24 07:25:10 <Kiba> we are the devil
 998 2010-11-24 07:25:44 <bd_> nah, we're just not built to be able to deal with a society of more than a hundred or so people
 999 2010-11-24 07:25:56 <Kiba> true
1000 2010-11-24 07:26:02 <bd_> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number
1001 2010-11-24 07:27:27 <Kiba> well
1002 2010-11-24 07:27:30 <Kiba> it's more than that
1003 2010-11-24 07:27:40 <Kiba> we don't think inutitively about division of labor
1004 2010-11-24 07:27:42 <Kiba> errr
1005 2010-11-24 07:27:46 <Kiba> correctly
1006 2010-11-24 07:28:03 <Kiba> we got this whole irrational behaviors
1007 2010-11-24 07:28:36 <bd_> Right.
1008 2010-11-24 07:28:48 <bd_> and then neoclassical economics assumes rational behavior and perfect information :P
1009 2010-11-24 07:29:12 <Kiba> if we know everything about the future, we wouldn't need a market
1010 2010-11-24 07:31:17 <nanotube> Kiba: we'd still need a market. since people's preferences would still differ, and there would be need for trade.
1011 2010-11-24 07:31:33 <nanotube> it just wouldn't be a very volatile market. :)
1012 2010-11-24 07:31:51 <Kiba> no volatilty: no fun
1013 2010-11-24 07:31:52 <Kiba> no emotions
1014 2010-11-24 07:32:01 <Kiba> no strong emotions.
1015 2010-11-24 07:32:07 <Kiba> but also no CRUSHING feeling
1016 2010-11-24 07:33:49 <nanotube> hehe you can always get your emotions elsewhere.
1017 2010-11-24 07:35:05 <Kiba> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
1018 2010-11-24 07:35:07 <Kiba> let rap!
1019 2010-11-24 07:42:55 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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1023 2010-11-24 08:07:54 <kermit> how long does it take for a transaction to be confirmed?
1024 2010-11-24 08:08:18 <bd_> on average, one confirmation per 10 minutes.
1025 2010-11-24 08:08:37 <bd_> different bitcoin acceptors may have different thresholds for how many confirmations they need
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1038 2010-11-24 09:56:16 <LobsterMan> http://imgur.com/gR9RU
1039 2010-11-24 09:57:44 <LobsterMan> http://i.imgur.com/7laLD.jpg
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1046 2010-11-24 11:20:14 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rf18385e / (2 files in 2 dirs):
1047 2010-11-24 11:20:14 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Added debug flag to output H==0 matching, added split kernel mode for
1048 2010-11-24 11:20:14 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Radeon 4xxx speed win - http://bit.ly/gFBlrJ
1049 2010-11-24 11:20:38 <LobsterMan> :]
1050 2010-11-24 11:22:32 <Diablo-D3> so meh
1051 2010-11-24 11:24:07 <DELTA9> ul#list-nav li {
1052 2010-11-24 11:24:07 <DELTA9> display:inline
1053 2010-11-24 11:25:07 <Diablo-D3> does this look like vim to you?
1054 2010-11-24 11:25:20 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: I really need to quit hacking on this
1055 2010-11-24 11:25:24 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: its not like anyone uses it
1056 2010-11-24 11:25:41 <LobsterMan> well you use it
1057 2010-11-24 11:25:44 <LobsterMan> isn't that reason enough?
1058 2010-11-24 11:25:46 <LobsterMan> or will when it works
1059 2010-11-24 11:25:52 <LobsterMan> btw....have you determined if it does work yet>?
1060 2010-11-24 11:25:52 <LobsterMan> :D
1061 2010-11-24 11:26:00 <Diablo-D3> yes, I determined that awhile ago
1062 2010-11-24 11:26:02 <Diablo-D3> it works fine
1063 2010-11-24 11:26:12 <Diablo-D3> its now the fastest miner EVAR
1064 2010-11-24 11:26:47 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: art says theoretical maximum is 78.6 mhash.... I get 77.9 with the radeon 4xxx hack
1065 2010-11-24 11:26:57 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: 74.6 without
1066 2010-11-24 11:27:33 <LobsterMan> i should give yours another try ^_________^
1067 2010-11-24 11:29:05 joe_1 has joined
1068 2010-11-24 11:30:03 <joe_1> has bitcoin reached 100$ a coin yet?
1069 2010-11-24 11:30:31 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: no
1070 2010-11-24 11:30:37 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: you know whats hilarious?
1071 2010-11-24 11:30:44 <joe_1> thanks
1072 2010-11-24 11:31:04 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: the 4xxx mode randomly crashes on 5xxx and is slower :<
1073 2010-11-24 11:31:22 <LobsterMan> probably different architectures and stuff
1074 2010-11-24 11:31:32 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but its not that kind of hack
1075 2010-11-24 11:31:51 <LobsterMan> .....same reason some python 2.6 stuff won't work with python 3.2?
1076 2010-11-24 11:32:23 <Diablo-D3> no, thats because they're two different languages
1077 2010-11-24 11:32:30 <Diablo-D3> python2 != python3
1078 2010-11-24 11:32:44 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: this just splits the opencl kernel in half
1079 2010-11-24 11:32:59 <Diablo-D3> it should _not_ be faster
1080 2010-11-24 11:33:00 <Diablo-D3> at all
1081 2010-11-24 11:33:01 <Diablo-D3> period
1082 2010-11-24 11:33:03 <Diablo-D3> yet it is
1083 2010-11-24 11:33:53 * LobsterMan shrugs
1084 2010-11-24 11:34:13 <LobsterMan> join #opencl and ask why? :P
1085 2010-11-24 11:34:30 <Diablo-D3> I think I know why
1086 2010-11-24 11:34:32 <LobsterMan> or #java
1087 2010-11-24 11:34:36 <Diablo-D3> and no, #opencl wouldnt know
1088 2010-11-24 11:34:38 <Diablo-D3> and fuck ##java
1089 2010-11-24 11:34:44 <Diablo-D3> why would I ask ##java
1090 2010-11-24 11:34:49 <Diablo-D3> this has nothing to do with java
1091 2010-11-24 11:35:01 <LobsterMan> lol
1092 2010-11-24 11:35:04 <Diablo-D3> as far as I can tell, I hit some sort of ALU efficiency stride
1093 2010-11-24 11:35:34 <Diablo-D3> and memory is fast enough to deal with the load the kernel does
1094 2010-11-24 11:35:56 <joe_1> if we rewrote the client in java, we might pull in some people from #java to start using bitcoins
1095 2010-11-24 11:36:27 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: I dont want the people from ##java here
1096 2010-11-24 11:36:31 <joe_1> haha
1097 2010-11-24 11:36:31 <Diablo-D3> they're all annoying fucktards
1098 2010-11-24 11:37:09 <joe_1> i've never been.  sounds bad
1099 2010-11-24 11:37:17 <Diablo-D3> its really bad
1100 2010-11-24 11:37:25 <LobsterMan> i was just reading the ##java rules linked from the topics
1101 2010-11-24 11:37:29 <LobsterMan> they sound a bit stuck up in there
1102 2010-11-24 11:37:37 <Diablo-D3> they love to ban anyone who answers questions
1103 2010-11-24 11:37:41 <Diablo-D3> or help people with their code
1104 2010-11-24 11:37:49 <Diablo-D3> they also tend to ban people asking the questions too
1105 2010-11-24 11:38:15 <LobsterMan> "##java is not a charity. You're in the company of several Java professionals there, and would like to welcome you among them."
1106 2010-11-24 11:38:17 <LobsterMan> made me chuckle
1107 2010-11-24 11:38:28 <joe_1> wow
1108 2010-11-24 11:38:28 <Diablo-D3> no sunacle employees are in there
1109 2010-11-24 11:38:32 <LobsterMan> self righteous bastards :P
1110 2010-11-24 11:38:32 <Diablo-D3> ergo, no java professionals
1111 2010-11-24 11:39:24 <joe_1> cause they cant write code
1112 2010-11-24 11:39:48 <joe_1> i should just go in there and flood it with null pointer exceptions
1113 2010-11-24 11:40:21 <LobsterMan> see how many lines before you get banned
1114 2010-11-24 11:40:28 <LobsterMan> it'd probably autoban
1115 2010-11-24 11:40:43 <Diablo-D3> heh
1116 2010-11-24 11:40:47 <joe_1> hold on i'm trying to change my settings not to close the channel window when i get banned, so i can paste what the last words were
1117 2010-11-24 11:41:01 <LobsterMan> hehe
1118 2010-11-24 11:41:07 <LobsterMan> it doesnt close it unless you get kicked
1119 2010-11-24 11:41:09 <LobsterMan> at least with mirc
1120 2010-11-24 11:41:15 <LobsterMan> there's probably a way to not let it close automatically
1121 2010-11-24 11:41:33 <joe_1> ok i checked off Keep channels open
1122 2010-11-24 11:41:38 <joe_1> let me test it first
1123 2010-11-24 11:41:54 <Diablo-D3> so
1124 2010-11-24 11:41:55 <Diablo-D3> seriously
1125 2010-11-24 11:41:59 <Diablo-D3> 99.1% efficiency
1126 2010-11-24 11:42:23 <joe_1> ok it worked
1127 2010-11-24 11:42:45 <joe_1> #java unable to join channel (invite only)
1128 2010-11-24 11:42:58 <Diablo-D3> nice
1129 2010-11-24 11:43:06 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: its ##java, btw
1130 2010-11-24 11:43:29 <LobsterMan> haha
1131 2010-11-24 11:43:36 <joe_1> Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
1132 2010-11-24 11:43:40 <ArtForz> Daiblo-D3: I have a pretty good diea why your split kernel is faster on 4xxx
1133 2010-11-24 11:43:45 <LobsterMan> i need to figure out how to make mirc autorejoin a network when i get /kill'd
1134 2010-11-24 11:43:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so do I
1135 2010-11-24 11:44:04 <ArtForz> cache size
1136 2010-11-24 11:44:07 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: half kernel size is smaller than ALU instruction buffer
1137 2010-11-24 11:44:09 <Diablo-D3> orly?
1138 2010-11-24 11:44:13 <ArtForz> yep
1139 2010-11-24 11:44:17 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1140 2010-11-24 11:44:19 <Diablo-D3> that could do it too
1141 2010-11-24 11:44:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the scary part is
1142 2010-11-24 11:44:24 <Diablo-D3> the memory can keep up
1143 2010-11-24 11:44:28 <ArtForz> 4xxx afair has only 32kB instruction cache
1144 2010-11-24 11:44:36 <ArtForz> 5xxx has 64kB
1145 2010-11-24 11:44:41 <Diablo-D3> [06:36:09] <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: half kernel size is smaller than ALU instruction buffer
1146 2010-11-24 11:44:45 <Diablo-D3> what did I say :D
1147 2010-11-24 11:44:52 <ArtForz> yep
1148 2010-11-24 11:45:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: go ahead and test mine on your 4870 if you don't believe me
1149 2010-11-24 11:45:14 <Diablo-D3> :D
1150 2010-11-24 11:45:20 <ArtForz> which is probably why it shows negative gains on 5xxx
1151 2010-11-24 11:45:58 <ArtForz> 5xxx doubled insn buffer size
1152 2010-11-24 11:46:05 <Diablo-D3> well
1153 2010-11-24 11:46:05 <ArtForz> well... 57 and 58 did
1154 2010-11-24 11:46:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: theres another problem
1155 2010-11-24 11:46:15 <ArtForz> 56 still has only 32k I think
1156 2010-11-24 11:46:17 <Diablo-D3> it crashes randomly on 5xxx
1157 2010-11-24 11:46:29 <ArtForz> that... shouldnt happen
1158 2010-11-24 11:46:34 <Diablo-D3> yeah it shouldnt
1159 2010-11-24 11:46:39 <Diablo-D3> but I'm allocating rather large buffers
1160 2010-11-24 11:47:08 <ArtForz> hrrrm
1161 2010-11-24 11:47:25 <Diablo-D3> 16 megs * A-H * 3 executions
1162 2010-11-24 11:47:29 <ArtForz> ouch
1163 2010-11-24 11:47:32 bertodsera has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1164 2010-11-24 11:47:36 <ArtForz> and that with global * s?
1165 2010-11-24 11:47:43 <Diablo-D3> yes
1166 2010-11-24 11:47:48 <ArtForz> global store is only like 256kB on 5xxx
1167 2010-11-24 11:47:58 bertodsera has joined
1168 2010-11-24 11:48:03 <LobsterMan> can someone please pm me? i'm testing something
1169 2010-11-24 11:48:11 <ArtForz> and afair 4xxx doesnt even have a global store
1170 2010-11-24 11:48:36 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but that shouldnt really matter
1171 2010-11-24 11:48:59 <ArtForz> it does if the cl compiler/runtime is braindead
1172 2010-11-24 11:49:04 <Diablo-D3> no I mean
1173 2010-11-24 11:49:10 <Diablo-D3> it shouldnt be in the global store
1174 2010-11-24 11:49:22 <Diablo-D3> its allocated by the host code
1175 2010-11-24 11:49:45 <ArtForz> hmmmm
1176 2010-11-24 11:49:56 <Diablo-D3> and it DOES run sometimes
1177 2010-11-24 11:50:02 <Diablo-D3> you have to try it a few times and it'll run
1178 2010-11-24 11:50:22 <Diablo-D3> but on a 5970, you get 245*2 instead of 300*2
1179 2010-11-24 11:50:50 <Diablo-D3> I suspect read/writing to an image might be faster, but I can't write the code for that because 4xxx doesnt support that
1180 2010-11-24 11:50:55 <ArtForz> probably because you're hitting memory where before everything fit in caches
1181 2010-11-24 11:51:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah but
1182 2010-11-24 11:51:14 <Diablo-D3> why does it win on 4xxx so hard?
1183 2010-11-24 11:51:24 <Diablo-D3> 99.1% efficiency
1184 2010-11-24 11:51:25 <joe_1> my ##java trolling didnt work someone answered the question nicely
1185 2010-11-24 11:51:33 <ArtForz> yeah, thats fucking insane
1186 2010-11-24 11:51:54 <ArtForz> especially considering the CL compiler isn't exactly great at filling VLIW slots
1187 2010-11-24 11:52:22 <Diablo-D3> I think its gotten better
1188 2010-11-24 11:52:28 <Diablo-D3> at some point -v is now worse
1189 2010-11-24 11:52:34 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure where that happened
1190 2010-11-24 11:52:46 <ArtForz> hrrrm, dump the shader ASM and check?
1191 2010-11-24 11:52:58 <LobsterMan> time for sleep, afk, cya all :]
1192 2010-11-24 11:53:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont know how to read it though
1193 2010-11-24 11:53:24 <Diablo-D3> I'm on 10.10 and using 2.1 or 2.2
1194 2010-11-24 11:53:33 <ArtForz> btw, have you seen the leaked 59xx slides?
1195 2010-11-24 11:53:40 <Diablo-D3> *6
1196 2010-11-24 11:53:42 <Diablo-D3> no, why?
1197 2010-11-24 11:53:51 <Diablo-D3> is it masturbation inducing?
1198 2010-11-24 11:53:51 <ArtForz> err 69xx
1199 2010-11-24 11:53:58 <ArtForz> it is VLIW4
1200 2010-11-24 11:54:04 <Diablo-D3> url now
1201 2010-11-24 11:54:12 <Diablo-D3> or so God help me, I will rape your mother
1202 2010-11-24 11:54:58 <ArtForz> the link was on S|A
1203 2010-11-24 11:55:22 <ArtForz> http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/22/radeon-hd-6900-series-slides-leak/
1204 2010-11-24 11:55:34 <ArtForz> here: http://www.expreview.com/12796.html
1205 2010-11-24 11:56:21 <ArtForz> check pic #6
1206 2010-11-24 11:56:28 <Diablo-D3> and at the end of Sixth Sense, I jizzed in my pants.
1207 2010-11-24 11:56:46 <Diablo-D3> holy mother of God
1208 2010-11-24 11:56:53 <ArtForz> but there might be a big FAIL
1209 2010-11-24 11:57:06 <ArtForz> 32-bit adds now take 2 slots
1210 2010-11-24 11:57:21 <Diablo-D3> theres no more fucking T unit
1211 2010-11-24 11:57:32 <ArtForz> yep
1212 2010-11-24 11:57:58 <Diablo-D3> wait wait wait wait wait
1213 2010-11-24 11:57:59 <Diablo-D3> wait
1214 2010-11-24 11:58:00 <Diablo-D3> wait.
1215 2010-11-24 11:58:02 <Diablo-D3> wait.
1216 2010-11-24 11:58:12 <Diablo-D3> tile dual graphics engines
1217 2010-11-24 11:58:19 <Diablo-D3> tile based load balancing
1218 2010-11-24 11:58:23 <Diablo-D3> is that what I think it says
1219 2010-11-24 11:58:31 <ArtForz> no
1220 2010-11-24 11:58:36 <Diablo-D3> oh.
1221 2010-11-24 11:58:40 <ArtForz> it's the same thing as on 68xx
1222 2010-11-24 11:58:45 <Diablo-D3> oh.
1223 2010-11-24 11:58:50 <ArtForz> = we now have *two* dispatchers
1224 2010-11-24 11:58:56 <Diablo-D3> feh.
1225 2010-11-24 11:59:17 <ArtForz> well, it is kinda useful if you want to run 2 different shaders in parallel
1226 2010-11-24 11:59:22 <joe_1> haha these are pot cam slides from a stakeholders meeting or something?
1227 2010-11-24 11:59:45 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: I think vendor meeting
1228 2010-11-24 11:59:48 <Diablo-D3> its in chinese
1229 2010-11-24 12:00:08 <ArtForz> they originated from a polish review site I think
1230 2010-11-24 12:00:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: oh hai, multiple compute kernels at the same time
1231 2010-11-24 12:00:31 <Diablo-D3> say goodbye to X rape
1232 2010-11-24 12:00:36 <ArtForz> guess they didnt get the memo that NDA lift got moved back to dec
1233 2010-11-24 12:01:11 <ArtForz> and heres a bit on 6990: http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6277/amdradeonhd6900slide6.jpg
1234 2010-11-24 12:01:53 <joe_1> it has tessellation units-- 2 of them. i have no clue what a tessellation unit is, but it sounds like it's really good
1235 2010-11-24 12:01:54 <Diablo-D3> woah, active TDP enforcement
1236 2010-11-24 12:01:59 <ArtForz> yep
1237 2010-11-24 12:02:10 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: tess refines polygon meshes
1238 2010-11-24 12:02:16 <ArtForz> 6 TFLOPs for 6990 ... not bad...
1239 2010-11-24 12:02:25 <ArtForz> 5970 is 4.6 or so
1240 2010-11-24 12:02:28 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: 5xxx and 6xxx are the first mass production archs that support ogl programmable tess
1241 2010-11-24 12:02:31 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: nvidia still doesnt
1242 2010-11-24 12:03:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: 300 watts on the 6990? not bad.
1243 2010-11-24 12:05:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: whens the big announcement supposed to happen
1244 2010-11-24 12:07:31 <joe_1> why does nvidia suck so bad, my friends have always taught me that nvidia is the best and ati is second best.
1245 2010-11-24 12:07:57 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: because your friends are idiots
1246 2010-11-24 12:08:03 <Diablo-D3> nvidia has not been good for about 2 years now
1247 2010-11-24 12:08:15 <joe_1> ok they might not be idiots cause i was hearing this a couple years ago
1248 2010-11-24 12:08:17 <Diablo-D3> they probably buy intel too
1249 2010-11-24 12:08:52 <joe_1> well i'm afraid of 64 bit architecture
1250 2010-11-24 12:09:13 <joe_1> amd might have a faster and better chip, but i'm too scared to run it
1251 2010-11-24 12:10:10 <Diablo-D3> huh?
1252 2010-11-24 12:10:23 <joe_1> amd is 64 bit architecture and intel is 32 bit
1253 2010-11-24 12:10:24 <Diablo-D3> you do realize intel has been shipping x86-64 chips for awhile now, right?
1254 2010-11-24 12:10:36 <Diablo-D3> my c2d is like 3 years old, and its 64bit
1255 2010-11-24 12:11:00 <joe_1> ok but doeesnt intel run 32 bit software better than amd
1256 2010-11-24 12:11:09 <Diablo-D3> no?
1257 2010-11-24 12:11:24 <Diablo-D3> go read the x86-64 specification
1258 2010-11-24 12:11:34 <joe_1> it breaks legacy code
1259 2010-11-24 12:11:46 <Diablo-D3> define "breaks"
1260 2010-11-24 12:11:46 <joe_1> long int becomes 64 bits and things break
1261 2010-11-24 12:11:58 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: not for 32bit software it doesnt.
1262 2010-11-24 12:12:34 <joe_1> so the same x86 code that's written for 32 bit, will run just fine on an AMD chip?
1263 2010-11-24 12:12:48 <Diablo-D3> uh, yes, its required to.
1264 2010-11-24 12:12:58 <joe_1> wow
1265 2010-11-24 12:13:07 <Diablo-D3> otherwise how do you plan on booting your machine?
1266 2010-11-24 12:13:30 <joe_1> i dont know -- i thought by using a 64 bit operating system
1267 2010-11-24 12:13:33 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: x86 is a 8-bit arch.
1268 2010-11-24 12:14:17 <Diablo-D3> well, technically 16
1269 2010-11-24 12:14:35 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: you know what the BIOS is, right?
1270 2010-11-24 12:14:43 <Diablo-D3> it still has very low level basic 16 bit code in it.
1271 2010-11-24 12:14:43 <joe_1> yes
1272 2010-11-24 12:14:44 <Diablo-D3> it runs.
1273 2010-11-24 12:15:07 <Diablo-D3> the ntldr that ships with windows 7 contains 16 bit code.
1274 2010-11-24 12:15:22 <Diablo-D3> your OS starts in 16 bit mode.
1275 2010-11-24 12:15:29 <Diablo-D3> it executes an instruction to change to 32 or 64 bit mode.
1276 2010-11-24 12:15:48 <Diablo-D3> it can execute another instruction to drop from 32 back to 16, or 64 to 32.
1277 2010-11-24 12:16:03 <Diablo-D3> up to the point, I have a 64 bit Linux, I can run 32 bit binaries on it.
1278 2010-11-24 12:16:09 <joe_1> ok, can a 64 bit piece of software run on a 32 bit operating system, on an AMD chip
1279 2010-11-24 12:16:16 <Diablo-D3> no
1280 2010-11-24 12:16:20 <Diablo-D3> because the OS can't support that.
1281 2010-11-24 12:16:33 <Diablo-D3> and quit trying to conflate AMD into this
1282 2010-11-24 12:17:14 <joe_1> can't support it cause the API calls or different, or cause it doesn't put the processor into the right mode?
1283 2010-11-24 12:17:23 <Diablo-D3> it cant load the binries.
1284 2010-11-24 12:17:26 <Diablo-D3> *binaries
1285 2010-11-24 12:18:17 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: a 64 bit OS that can load 32 bit binaries has two loaders and two copies of a lot of libraries
1286 2010-11-24 12:18:26 <Diablo-D3> and it also can switch back and forth
1287 2010-11-24 12:18:42 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: where did you get these strange ideas?
1288 2010-11-24 12:19:16 <joe_1> its just scary that it's not backwards compatible with the instruction set
1289 2010-11-24 12:19:25 <joe_1> you need a different binary for x86 than for x64
1290 2010-11-24 12:19:37 <Diablo-D3> "scary"
1291 2010-11-24 12:19:41 <Diablo-D3> that doesnt even make sense
1292 2010-11-24 12:20:10 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: and x86-64 is a superset of x86.
1293 2010-11-24 12:20:42 <Diablo-D3> obviously if you don't want to use x86-64 features, you have to build your program without them
1294 2010-11-24 12:21:53 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: x86-64 has more general purpose registers, it makes SSE2 mandatory, you have 64 bit pointers, and long becomes 64 bit.
1295 2010-11-24 12:22:00 <Diablo-D3> obviously you'd need two binaries.
1296 2010-11-24 12:22:33 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: not only that, Intel has been shipping x86-64 processors since 2005, and AMD since 2003, and the specification has been out since 2000.
1297 2010-11-24 12:23:06 <joe_1> none of those reasons implies that the binaries need to be different.
1298 2010-11-24 12:23:24 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: running 32 bit on a native x86-64 processor also incurs a 10-15% speed loss on average.
1299 2010-11-24 12:23:41 <Diablo-D3> _new registers_ doesn't imply different binaries?!
1300 2010-11-24 12:23:43 <Diablo-D3> holy shit dude.
1301 2010-11-24 12:23:53 <joe_1> no, i mean .. from going FROM x86 to 64
1302 2010-11-24 12:24:19 <Diablo-D3> well no, if you have a x86 binary, it runs on x86-64, as is required.
1303 2010-11-24 12:24:26 <Diablo-D3> you just don't get the new features.
1304 2010-11-24 12:24:43 <joe_1> ok
1305 2010-11-24 12:24:51 <Diablo-D3> I said this three times.
1306 2010-11-24 12:25:06 <Diablo-D3> WinXP 64 does it, Win Vista/7 64 does it, Linux does it, OSX does it.
1307 2010-11-24 12:25:09 <joe_1> i'll buy a damn amd card
1308 2010-11-24 12:25:29 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: we were talking CPUs, not GPUs.
1309 2010-11-24 12:25:35 <joe_1> chip
1310 2010-11-24 12:25:47 <joe_1> with an ati radeon
1311 2010-11-24 12:25:55 <Diablo-D3> amd makes radeons.
1312 2010-11-24 12:26:15 <joe_1> an amd radeon
1313 2010-11-24 12:27:23 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: who told you this shit, though?
1314 2010-11-24 12:27:45 <Diablo-D3> what use would a consumer Windows-running CPU be if it couldn't run legacy Windows apps?
1315 2010-11-24 12:28:08 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: what CPU do you have now?
1316 2010-11-24 12:28:39 <joe_1> back in the old days there were all kinda issues jumping from 16 up to 32
1317 2010-11-24 12:29:01 <Diablo-D3> the only major 16->32 issues were on 286s
1318 2010-11-24 12:29:07 <joe_1> p4 i'm pushing 3 GHz
1319 2010-11-24 12:29:23 <Diablo-D3> 286s couldnt revert to 16 bit mode after switching to 32 due to an obscure bug
1320 2010-11-24 12:29:30 <Diablo-D3> 386s fixed this bug
1321 2010-11-24 12:29:37 <joe_1> i was on a 386 and i needed special software to get windows to run the new 32 bit stuff coming out
1322 2010-11-24 12:29:52 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: because windows 3.x wasn't a 32 bit OS.
1323 2010-11-24 12:30:14 <ArtForz> hrrrm
1324 2010-11-24 12:30:36 <ArtForz> 307.2GB/s mem BW on 6990
1325 2010-11-24 12:30:52 <Diablo-D3> but due to how 3.x ran (all apps were basically TSRs, and task switching was voluntary-ish), apps that used Win32s could be 32-bit
1326 2010-11-24 12:31:51 <ArtForz> = 153.6 per GPU, it's still 256bit, so... 1.2GHz mem clock
1327 2010-11-24 12:32:11 <Diablo-D3> and Win32s was basically a back ported version of the Win32 API that was in NT 3.x
1328 2010-11-24 12:32:24 <Diablo-D3> which became the Win32 API in NT4/Win9x
1329 2010-11-24 12:32:28 <ArtForz> so 6950/70 will probably run memory at 1.3-1.4GHz
1330 2010-11-24 12:32:49 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: so dont blame CPUs for Windows idioticy
1331 2010-11-24 12:33:06 <joe_1> ohh so the 32 bit code DID run on my 386 (486?) but the API it was looking for wasn't there until i used win32s.
1332 2010-11-24 12:33:15 <joe_1> makes sense
1333 2010-11-24 12:33:20 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: you probably played 32 bit games
1334 2010-11-24 12:33:49 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: ever play doom? or quake?
1335 2010-11-24 12:33:59 <joe_1> no unfortunately
1336 2010-11-24 12:34:00 <Diablo-D3> or basically any game that said 386 or higher?
1337 2010-11-24 12:34:02 <joe_1> computer was too slow
1338 2010-11-24 12:34:14 <ArtForz> *shudder*
1339 2010-11-24 12:34:18 <Diablo-D3> they said 386 or higher because they used 32 bit mode
1340 2010-11-24 12:34:45 <ArtForz> or unreal mode :P
1341 2010-11-24 12:34:46 <joe_1> well i was loading all kinds of shit onto win 3.1 because i had it so long. i believe i put netscape on there, all kinds of 32 bit software
1342 2010-11-24 12:35:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh
1343 2010-11-24 12:35:07 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: thats hacks that can be discussed at a later time ;)
1344 2010-11-24 12:35:19 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: win 3.x isnt even an OS
1345 2010-11-24 12:35:32 <Diablo-D3> DOS was the OS
1346 2010-11-24 12:36:04 <Diablo-D3> win 3.x was just a severely broken cooperative task switching and windowed UI drawing framework.
1347 2010-11-24 12:36:08 <ArtForz> yep, win 3.x was more of a graphical shell + API
1348 2010-11-24 12:36:17 <Diablo-D3> it was absurd
1349 2010-11-24 12:36:21 <Diablo-D3> I don't know why anyone seriously used it
1350 2010-11-24 12:36:37 <Diablo-D3> my 486 had a copy, I rarely used it
1351 2010-11-24 12:36:47 <Diablo-D3> even to the point I did web browsing in DOS
1352 2010-11-24 12:37:13 <Diablo-D3> hurray for dialup + tcp/ip in DOS, and pwning people in descent 2 over kali
1353 2010-11-24 12:39:00 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: so which P4 do you have?
1354 2010-11-24 12:39:44 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: because some late model P4s implemented x86-64.
1355 2010-11-24 12:39:51 <Diablo-D3> you could have a x86-64 processor and not even know it
1356 2010-11-24 12:40:10 <joe_1> i dont know what model it is
1357 2010-11-24 12:40:27 <Diablo-D3> you're on linux?
1358 2010-11-24 12:40:37 <joe_1> it's dual boot but i'm on windows right now
1359 2010-11-24 12:40:49 <Diablo-D3> meh.
1360 2010-11-24 12:41:42 <ArtForz> looks like for gaming a 6990 should own pretty much anything
1361 2010-11-24 12:41:44 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: but doesnt that surprise you?
1362 2010-11-24 12:41:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: depends on what it ends up being
1363 2010-11-24 12:41:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I may bough a 6970 instead
1364 2010-11-24 12:42:02 <ArtForz> we already know pretty well
1365 2010-11-24 12:42:03 <Diablo-D3> *buy
1366 2010-11-24 12:42:08 <Diablo-D3> well
1367 2010-11-24 12:42:15 <joe_1> well linux is nice but it's too many problems, it's not optimized to the hardware
1368 2010-11-24 12:42:15 <Diablo-D3> look how much... well, crap a 5970 is
1369 2010-11-24 12:42:21 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: LOL
1370 2010-11-24 12:42:23 <Diablo-D3> LOL
1371 2010-11-24 12:42:27 <Diablo-D3> _LOL_
1372 2010-11-24 12:42:28 <Diablo-D3> oh wow
1373 2010-11-24 12:42:31 <Diablo-D3> I lol'd
1374 2010-11-24 12:42:31 <ArtForz> check 6870 xfire scaling
1375 2010-11-24 12:42:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, what?
1376 2010-11-24 12:43:00 <ArtForz> looks like 69xx has pretty much the same improvements
1377 2010-11-24 12:43:11 <Diablo-D3> what xfire scaling, btw?
1378 2010-11-24 12:43:20 <Diablo-D3> does 68xx finally scale properly?
1379 2010-11-24 12:43:24 <ArtForz> yep
1380 2010-11-24 12:43:25 <joe_1> it's not optimized to the hardware. i had to do a lot of junk with the kernel and recompile the kernel with proprietary display drivers before i could browse the web without terrible lag
1381 2010-11-24 12:43:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ohshit.
1382 2010-11-24 12:43:44 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: what the fuck are you even talking about.
1383 2010-11-24 12:43:52 <ArtForz> it now scales a bit better than SLI, and amd devs said next few cat releases should push that even more
1384 2010-11-24 12:43:56 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: don't be a ricer if you dont know how shit works
1385 2010-11-24 12:44:12 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: if you're on nvidia, all you do is fucking install the binary drivers using the method your distro provided.
1386 2010-11-24 12:44:14 <ArtForz> and with 6Tflop combined for a 6990...
1387 2010-11-24 12:44:20 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: you dont RECOMPILE THE WHOLE FUCKING KERNEL
1388 2010-11-24 12:44:45 <joe_1> this was an old linux dont think i could dynamically plug it in
1389 2010-11-24 12:45:05 <Diablo-D3> "an old linux"
1390 2010-11-24 12:45:11 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck does THAT mean
1391 2010-11-24 12:45:21 <joe_1> not new
1392 2010-11-24 12:46:02 <joe_1> from merriam-webster.com: dating from the remote past : ancient
1393 2010-11-24 12:46:07 <ArtForz> 6990 2*1920 shaders, 725 MHz core clock, 1.2G mem clock
1394 2010-11-24 12:46:12 <Diablo-D3> I've been using linux for over a decade, joe_1
1395 2010-11-24 12:46:26 <Diablo-D3> you do not understand the meaning of ancient.
1396 2010-11-24 12:46:48 <joe_1> 1: having had an existence of many years
1397 2010-11-24 12:47:17 <joe_1> of or relating to a remote period, to a time early in history, or to those living in such a period or time; especially : of or relating to the historical period beginning with the earliest known civilizations and extending to the fall of the western Roman Empire in a.d. 476
1398 2010-11-24 12:47:27 <ArtForz> so pretty much +20% shaders of a 5970, +20% mem clock, same frontend improvements as 5850->6870, 4D shaders
1399 2010-11-24 12:47:52 <ArtForz> = should end up about 50% faster than a 5970 for gaming
1400 2010-11-24 12:48:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, you know what your job is now
1401 2010-11-24 12:48:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you are buying one
1402 2010-11-24 12:48:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you dont have an option to say no.
1403 2010-11-24 12:48:18 <Diablo-D3> you are buying one
1404 2010-11-24 12:48:22 <ArtForz> of course I am
1405 2010-11-24 12:48:26 <Diablo-D3> and you are waiting for sdk 2.3 to come out
1406 2010-11-24 12:48:30 <Diablo-D3> and you are going to benchmark it
1407 2010-11-24 12:48:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: oh, and btw
1408 2010-11-24 12:48:34 <Diablo-D3> AMD has admitted
1409 2010-11-24 12:48:42 <Diablo-D3> 2.2 is kind of fail on 68xx
1410 2010-11-24 12:48:49 <Diablo-D3> I mean, more than the fail it is on 58xx
1411 2010-11-24 12:48:55 <ArtForz> 2.2 is fail on anything
1412 2010-11-24 12:49:45 <Diablo-D3> well what Im saying is
1413 2010-11-24 12:49:51 <Diablo-D3> 68xx doesnt have optimal performance yet.
1414 2010-11-24 12:50:02 <ArtForz> yep
1415 2010-11-24 12:50:10 <Diablo-D3> so you know how you said 68xx is slower on mhash by a tad?
1416 2010-11-24 12:50:10 <ArtForz> so, looks like 6950/6970/6990 will end up pretty exactly like 5850/5870/5970
1417 2010-11-24 12:50:13 <Diablo-D3> that maaaaaaaaaay not be true.
1418 2010-11-24 12:50:28 <joe_1> diablo, u have all the answers for linux, cpu, and gpu architectures. do u also have all the answers for network configuration and routing related questions?
1419 2010-11-24 12:50:49 <ArtForz> = 6990 is dual 6970 GPUs shader count wise, clocked at 6950 speeds
1420 2010-11-24 12:51:32 <ArtForz> hopefully us linuxies will get access to those power throttling controls in ati overdrive ;)
1421 2010-11-24 12:52:40 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: yes, but ask me later
1422 2010-11-24 12:52:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: meh
1423 2010-11-24 12:52:51 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I just dont want it to blow up
1424 2010-11-24 12:52:51 <joe_1> ok
1425 2010-11-24 12:53:36 <ArtForz> well, I suspect we'll hit the 300W limit easily
1426 2010-11-24 12:54:49 <ArtForz> it's a dual 6950 with even more shaders, and 6950 is rumored to be >180W
1427 2010-11-24 12:55:47 <ArtForz> I wouldnt be surprised if 6990 hit 400W peak unthrottled
1428 2010-11-24 12:57:48 <joe_1> i want to write a new programming language that will run on GPUs instead of CPUs
1429 2010-11-24 12:58:09 <joe_1> or better, a c++ compiler that compiles to code that can run on GPUs.
1430 2010-11-24 12:59:30 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: so... OpenCl?
1431 2010-11-24 13:00:25 <joe_1> yeah, is opencl compatible with c or is it a completely different language
1432 2010-11-24 13:00:46 <Diablo-D3> its very C-like
1433 2010-11-24 13:02:26 <joe_1> can i ask the networking question yet
1434 2010-11-24 13:05:43 <joe_1> my windows computer has 2 interfaces: Local Area Connection, and Local Area Connection 2. Both interfaces go to the internet, but have different outward facing IP addresses. How do I get apache to respond to requests back onto the same interface the request came on? Because if the response routes to the other interface, TCP fails due to the different IP (I think).
1435 2010-11-24 13:06:15 <Diablo-D3> how about not using windows to run apache.
1436 2010-11-24 13:06:20 <Diablo-D3> that should fix your issues.
1437 2010-11-24 13:06:25 <joe_1> ok:
1438 2010-11-24 13:06:32 <Diablo-D3> I dont debug windows issues for free.
1439 2010-11-24 13:06:36 <Diablo-D3> especially not networking issues.
1440 2010-11-24 13:06:50 <joe_1> where do i send the bitcoins
1441 2010-11-24 13:07:21 <Diablo-D3> real money, joe
1442 2010-11-24 13:07:24 <Diablo-D3> and you cant afford me.
1443 2010-11-24 13:07:50 <joe_1> can i rephrase it into a linux question?
1444 2010-11-24 13:08:18 <Diablo-D3> I think the problem is you phrased the question wrong.
1445 2010-11-24 13:08:34 <joe_1> my linux computer has 2 interfaces: eth0, and tun0. Both interfaces go to the internet, but have different outward facing IP addresses. How do I get apache to respond to requests back onto the same interface the request came on? Because if the response routes to the other interface, TCP fails due to the different IP (I think).
1446 2010-11-24 13:08:50 <Diablo-D3> a properly functioning network stack that has not been configured strangely will already work.
1447 2010-11-24 13:09:24 <joe_1> well i didnt touch the stack but i had to set up the routing table
1448 2010-11-24 13:09:35 <Diablo-D3> you shouldnt have had to setup a routing table.
1449 2010-11-24 13:10:40 <tcatm> i have such a multiple IP setup here and it's working
1450 2010-11-24 13:10:41 <joe_1> well the baseline is having just eth0 with a properly configured routing table. I added tun0 (vpn). So I needed to make SOME change to the routing table to get things to go there
1451 2010-11-24 13:11:29 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: you dont need to screw with tun0
1452 2010-11-24 13:12:50 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: because, first of all, if a connection is incoming on a interface, its going to use the same interface for the entire connection
1453 2010-11-24 13:13:18 <Diablo-D3> second of all, you only need a routing table hack if the OUTGOING connections are defaultly going down the wrong interface
1454 2010-11-24 13:13:37 <Diablo-D3> linux usually chooses the most precise interface to open a new connection on unless told otherwise
1455 2010-11-24 13:14:19 <joe_1> well that's what i thought. Until i did a test. With the routing table at the baseline, then requests from eth0 worked and tun0 did not work. I added tun0 as the gateway for the internet (mask 0.0.0.0) with a lower metric, then ONLY requests from tun0 worked (requests from eth0 no longer made it back to the client)
1456 2010-11-24 13:14:51 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: see
1457 2010-11-24 13:14:54 <Diablo-D3> thats why you fucked up
1458 2010-11-24 13:15:04 <Diablo-D3> you told it EXACTLY to do that
1459 2010-11-24 13:15:53 <joe_1> was it the metric? i just need to make sure the metrics for both are equal?
1460 2010-11-24 13:16:32 <Diablo-D3> no, you did it wrong.
1461 2010-11-24 13:16:54 <Diablo-D3> if your vpn shit isnt properly adding the route
1462 2010-11-24 13:16:55 <Diablo-D3> you really want
1463 2010-11-24 13:17:24 <Diablo-D3> route add 192.168.foo.0/24 gw 192.168.foo.bar
1464 2010-11-24 13:17:31 <Diablo-D3> whatever matches your vpn
1465 2010-11-24 13:18:36 <joe_1> ok, the vpn put that in already. the vpn subnet is 4 IP addresses. it did that.
1466 2010-11-24 13:18:57 <Diablo-D3> clear your shit out
1467 2010-11-24 13:19:00 <Diablo-D3> turn your vpn on
1468 2010-11-24 13:19:07 <Diablo-D3> and pastebin ifconfig and route output
1469 2010-11-24 13:19:38 <Diablo-D3> outgoing connections to either the internet or to the vpn should work perfectly with no changes
1470 2010-11-24 13:19:50 <Diablo-D3> incoming connections should also work perfectly depending on what you did to apache
1471 2010-11-24 13:19:56 <Diablo-D3> also, apache is shit and you should feel bad
1472 2010-11-24 13:20:06 <Diablo-D3> use cherokee or ngnix or lighttpd
1473 2010-11-24 13:28:30 <joe_1> 1 sec
1474 2010-11-24 13:32:27 <tcatm> is testnet difficulty the same scale as normal difficulty?
1475 2010-11-24 13:33:55 <joe_1> http://pastebin.com/1Pb7pu10
1476 2010-11-24 13:35:53 <ArtForz> txatm: nope
1477 2010-11-24 13:35:53 <joe_1> http://pastebin.com/b7eaGqRp
1478 2010-11-24 13:36:08 <ArtForz> 1.0 test = 0.125 main diff
1479 2010-11-24 13:36:17 <ArtForz> test BBE uses mai ndiff scale
1480 2010-11-24 13:36:19 <tcatm> k
1481 2010-11-24 13:38:10 <tcatm> what's the url for test BBE?
1482 2010-11-24 13:38:55 <joe_1> tcatm: do you know anything about getting the multiple ip address setup working? or does yours "just work"
1483 2010-11-24 13:39:06 <tcatm> joe_1: it just works
1484 2010-11-24 13:39:10 <joe_1> ok
1485 2010-11-24 13:39:23 <tcatm> apache listening on 0.0.0.0:80
1486 2010-11-24 13:39:38 <joe_1> ok
1487 2010-11-24 13:40:04 <ArtForz> http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/testnet/bbe/
1488 2010-11-24 13:40:57 <joe_1> in your routing table are the metrics the same for both gateways?
1489 2010-11-24 13:40:57 dwdollar has left ()
1490 2010-11-24 13:47:30 <joe_1> diablo: did you get a chance to look at those paste bins
1491 2010-11-24 13:47:44 <joe_1> i'm going to try to equalize the metrics and see what happens
1492 2010-11-24 13:55:03 <joe_1> wait i think it works
1493 2010-11-24 13:56:18 <tcatm> i think we should have a fixed difficulty in testnet
1494 2010-11-24 14:04:05 MacRohard has joined
1495 2010-11-24 14:04:23 <MacRohard> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2010-11/24/content_11600336.htm
1496 2010-11-24 14:04:31 <MacRohard> doesn't seem to be ready for us whiteys yet tho'
1497 2010-11-24 14:16:19 <joe_1> thanks for abandoning me diablo although i found the problem was the metrics
1498 2010-11-24 14:19:34 <joe_1> bitcoin will soon take over china
1499 2010-11-24 14:19:37 <joe_1> its just a matter of time
1500 2010-11-24 14:44:32 hippich has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1501 2010-11-24 15:03:12 utyut has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1502 2010-11-24 15:08:47 davex__ has joined
1503 2010-11-24 15:11:12 utyut has joined
1504 2010-11-24 15:17:27 Akiraa has joined
1505 2010-11-24 15:30:02 Kiba has joined
1506 2010-11-24 15:32:19 <xelister> USA news!  School wanted to ban pencils because they are "materials to build weapons".  Installing stripping-scanners at metro stations dicussed.  Wtf.
1507 2010-11-24 15:33:00 <Kiba> THEY are weapons themsleves
1508 2010-11-24 15:33:36 <Kiba> a guy killed a principal by stabbing with a pencil
1509 2010-11-24 15:34:03 <xelister> Kiba: hm? you think such ban could make sense?
1510 2010-11-24 15:34:12 <Kiba> xelister: no.
1511 2010-11-24 15:34:24 <Kiba> any heavy objects can be used as a weapon
1512 2010-11-24 15:34:29 <xelister> Kiba: oh ok, I thought you are totally retarded and I wondered how you ever learned to use IRC or bitcoin
1513 2010-11-24 15:34:32 <Kiba> anything that stabby can be used as a weapon
1514 2010-11-24 15:34:51 <Kiba> break out the glasses in the window and you'll have a ready-made weapon
1515 2010-11-24 15:34:58 <Kiba> even poo can be used as a weapon
1516 2010-11-24 15:34:58 <xelister> I know what will make americans secure
1517 2010-11-24 15:35:17 <Kiba> biological weapon
1518 2010-11-24 15:35:19 <xelister> every american naked, hand cuffed all the time, in prison. Now, this is quite secure
1519 2010-11-24 15:35:21 <Kiba> meant to make someone sick
1520 2010-11-24 15:36:04 <xelister> well, definatelly putting everyone in prison should resolve this
1521 2010-11-24 15:36:09 <Kiba> naw
1522 2010-11-24 15:36:15 <Kiba> prisons can have riots
1523 2010-11-24 15:36:20 <xelister> are really americans so fucking idiots
1524 2010-11-24 15:36:26 <xelister> why do you put up with all this shit?
1525 2010-11-24 15:36:33 <xelister> don't have balls to do something about it?
1526 2010-11-24 15:36:42 <Kiba> doesn't concerns me
1527 2010-11-24 15:36:46 <Kiba> it's not my school
1528 2010-11-24 15:37:13 <Kiba> why should I care about a backwater thousand of miles away?
1529 2010-11-24 15:37:22 <xelister> scans will concern you. And if americans are getting so fucking idiotic beyond any imagination, eventually more crazy laws will affect you
1530 2010-11-24 15:37:26 <Kiba> backward school
1531 2010-11-24 15:37:36 <Kiba> xelister: good. We learn how crazy they are.
1532 2010-11-24 15:37:48 <Kiba> and American will start caring about their liberty.
1533 2010-11-24 15:37:54 <xelister> too late
1534 2010-11-24 15:38:03 <xelister> they will just sit they fat lazy ass
1535 2010-11-24 15:38:10 <xelister> on their home-prison sofa and watch TV
1536 2010-11-24 15:38:22 <anarchy_> the TSA needs to be challenged right now - either you get the porn/cancer machine or you get molested
1537 2010-11-24 15:38:24 <xelister> you can arrest everyone, and prisons have no vote rights
1538 2010-11-24 15:39:11 <xelister> anarchy_: well I think now Americans (american gov., and most american people for lettings this happen) may in fact be THE BIGGEST FUCKING IDIOTS ON PLANET
1539 2010-11-24 15:39:17 <Kiba> it's a truthism that people care more about security than liberty
1540 2010-11-24 15:39:29 <anarchy_> if the start doing the scans in subways
1541 2010-11-24 15:39:31 <anarchy_> it will not stop
1542 2010-11-24 15:39:35 <xelister> really, some tribe people in affrica are more intelligent then you - at least they would fight such opression
1543 2010-11-24 15:39:35 <anarchy_> next are busy streets
1544 2010-11-24 15:39:46 <Kiba> anarchy_: it won't stop real terrorists anyway
1545 2010-11-24 15:39:50 <Kiba> they'll find a way
1546 2010-11-24 15:39:55 <anarchy_> of course, thats the whole joke
1547 2010-11-24 15:39:56 <Kiba> they always will.
1548 2010-11-24 15:39:58 <xelister> 1. OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO THINK OF THE CHILDREN OMG
1549 2010-11-24 15:40:09 <anarchy_> people need to realise there's only 1 way to stop terrorists
1550 2010-11-24 15:40:13 <anarchy_> stop fucking provoking them
1551 2010-11-24 15:40:21 <anarchy_> im surprised they didnt try to attack more
1552 2010-11-24 15:40:23 <xelister> 2. mmmm strip-search of strip-scan child by imcopetent fucktards from TSA? mmmm I must join
1553 2010-11-24 15:40:29 <xelister> it makes NO sense  1+2.
1554 2010-11-24 15:40:35 <anarchy_> you know how many fucking children you killed in iraq?
1555 2010-11-24 15:40:44 <xelister> obviously all this terrorist thing is a big scam
1556 2010-11-24 15:40:47 <anarchy_> if i would have been their father i would be pissed off beyondn anything
1557 2010-11-24 15:41:04 <xelister> 99.99% of what the "protections" are doing is they are abusing americans
1558 2010-11-24 15:41:08 <xelister> or 100%
1559 2010-11-24 15:41:17 <Kiba> 100% is not real security
1560 2010-11-24 15:41:20 <xelister> was ANY terrorist yet actually cought by this naked scaner
1561 2010-11-24 15:41:52 <xelister> the gov is not only fucking other people (like the Iraq people) but also fucking now YOU, and you do nothing about it
1562 2010-11-24 15:41:54 <anarchy_> the government is a coercive monopoly that needs to be stopped
1563 2010-11-24 15:42:09 <xelister> they will slowly totally own you - and you will not to anything if they do it slowly
1564 2010-11-24 15:42:13 <anarchy_> noone should have to soul right for violence
1565 2010-11-24 15:42:18 <anarchy_> sole*
1566 2010-11-24 15:42:25 <xelister> slowly boiled frog - never escapes from the pot ;)
1567 2010-11-24 15:42:38 <anarchy_> xelister: until it collapses on itself
1568 2010-11-24 15:42:47 <xelister> yeah perhaps it will
1569 2010-11-24 15:42:49 <anarchy_> its already in the processes of doing that
1570 2010-11-24 15:43:00 <xelister> but then american people are already doomed
1571 2010-11-24 15:43:06 <anarchy_> the us monetary system is at the brink of descrution
1572 2010-11-24 15:43:10 <anarchy_> the problem is
1573 2010-11-24 15:43:19 <Kiba> destruction of the us monetary system
1574 2010-11-24 15:43:20 <anarchy_> one world government will try to come up with a solution thats even worse
1575 2010-11-24 15:43:23 <anarchy_> world currency
1576 2010-11-24 15:43:23 <Kiba> + bitcoin
1577 2010-11-24 15:43:23 <xelister> hopefully it will collapse because america's shit spreads
1578 2010-11-24 15:43:26 <Kiba> good timing.
1579 2010-11-24 15:43:36 <Kiba> if AMerica's economy sucks
1580 2010-11-24 15:43:44 <Kiba> every body else also tanks
1581 2010-11-24 15:43:45 <anarchy_> so then the whole world needs to fucking suffer first and collapse
1582 2010-11-24 15:43:49 <Kiba> welcome to interdependence
1583 2010-11-24 15:44:10 <Kiba> if you want world peace.
1584 2010-11-24 15:44:14 <Kiba> Make trade, not war!
1585 2010-11-24 15:44:20 <Kiba> fight protectionism
1586 2010-11-24 15:44:28 <anarchy_> secede from your government today :P
1587 2010-11-24 15:45:14 <Kiba> imagine if we can network Africa
1588 2010-11-24 15:45:19 <Kiba> lift the poor
1589 2010-11-24 15:45:43 <Kiba> it will be an astonishing revolution in our economy.
1590 2010-11-24 15:46:37 <Kiba> the key to wealth...specialization, trade.
1591 2010-11-24 15:47:19 <Kiba> but meh. Everyone hate foriegners and competition
1592 2010-11-24 15:48:19 <Kiba> today
1593 2010-11-24 15:48:32 <xelister> jgarzik: hi, will you be online in around 4-6 hours from now to review first part of my work for you (500)
1594 2010-11-24 15:48:34 <Kiba> bitcoin is a global economy
1595 2010-11-24 15:49:41 * Kiba tweet his realization
1596 2010-11-24 15:49:58 <xelister> Kiba: bitcoin is a global value, you think this is good? bad?
1597 2010-11-24 15:50:23 <Kiba> global value?
1598 2010-11-24 15:50:25 <Kiba> eh?
1599 2010-11-24 15:50:46 <Kiba> xelister: by forging international trade relation, you pave the way for world peace
1600 2010-11-24 15:51:06 <Kiba> plus, we're forging friendship all across the western world
1601 2010-11-24 15:51:59 <xelister> Kiba: Im making some presentations about bitcoin. perhaps we should make also more free/politial oriented one to appeal to people with freedom and ati-slavery in mind
1602 2010-11-24 15:52:12 <xelister> btw, what ever happened to USA values, freedom, no-slavery.
1603 2010-11-24 15:52:57 <Kiba> The US had been on a long trend of degradation in liberty
1604 2010-11-24 15:53:11 <Kiba> and it have a history of horrific violence.
1605 2010-11-24 15:53:33 <Kiba> The Trail of Tears, the removal of Native Americans from their land, slavery, and so on.
1606 2010-11-24 15:53:57 <Kiba> I think you find not one country in the world that doesn't have a horrific history.
1607 2010-11-24 15:54:39 <Kiba> but we do have some great heroes, even if they're a bit forgotten
1608 2010-11-24 15:54:53 <Kiba> that fought against some of the abuse
1609 2010-11-24 15:55:45 <Kiba> The American invented the atomic bomb after all
1610 2010-11-24 15:55:46 Akiraa has quit (Quit: Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do...)
1611 2010-11-24 15:56:05 Akiraa has joined
1612 2010-11-24 15:56:22 <Kiba> and since then
1613 2010-11-24 15:56:30 <Kiba> we seem to think of democracy as a form of liberty
1614 2010-11-24 15:57:05 <Akiraa> At 2.7K hashes/second, what is the average time of breaking a block?
1615 2010-11-24 15:57:29 <Kiba> more than a year, I guess
1616 2010-11-24 15:58:04 <xelister> from our paste discussions
1617 2010-11-24 15:58:49 <xelister> imho: over last 50-100 years, all the drugs, terrorist, pedo, and prohibition and shit are mostly just made of exaggerated up distract Americans while they are slowly and steadly turned into slaves, that government can strip naked, grope, and indirectly: rape (economics forces prositution), beat up, kill, lock up, censore, silence.
1618 2010-11-24 15:59:06 <xelister> *to distract
1619 2010-11-24 16:00:59 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=690.0
1620 2010-11-24 16:01:13 <Kiba> nobody is from Japan.
1621 2010-11-24 16:01:14 <Kiba> LOL
1622 2010-11-24 16:01:46 <bd_> I'm studying abroad in Japan, does that count?
1623 2010-11-24 16:01:58 <Kiba> no sir
1624 2010-11-24 16:02:03 <bd_> :(
1625 2010-11-24 16:02:04 <xelister> Kiba: Poland should be on the list
1626 2010-11-24 16:02:05 <Kiba> and it's your mission to find out who Satoshi is
1627 2010-11-24 16:02:23 <xelister> bd_: ask Yakuza about Satoshi :P
1628 2010-11-24 16:02:35 <xelister> run when they see their payment is in BTCs
1629 2010-11-24 16:02:45 <bd_> yeah, uh, no
1630 2010-11-24 16:03:58 <Kiba> WHO IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO?
1631 2010-11-24 16:04:42 <xelister> Kiba: dont forget poland
1632 2010-11-24 16:05:27 <Kiba> I just added poland
1633 2010-11-24 16:05:37 <xelister> \o
1634 2010-11-24 16:06:54 <altamic> xelister: I agree with you
1635 2010-11-24 16:07:17 <xelister> altamic: on the distract thing?
1636 2010-11-24 16:07:26 <altamic> for sure
1637 2010-11-24 16:07:37 <xelister> many americans realize that?
1638 2010-11-24 16:08:03 <altamic> an irrelevant minority I think
1639 2010-11-24 16:08:04 <xelister> are you going to do other then everyone noding along "yes they are making us slaves" if it happens slowly enough so there is no big "impulse"
1640 2010-11-24 16:08:30 <altamic> I am
1641 2010-11-24 16:08:36 <Kiba> we are becoming infants!
1642 2010-11-24 16:08:49 <Kiba> and the government are our abusive parents!
1643 2010-11-24 16:09:10 <altamic> the point is different
1644 2010-11-24 16:09:14 <altamic> IMHO
1645 2010-11-24 16:11:18 <xelister> altamic: what is the point then?
1646 2010-11-24 16:11:33 <Kiba> Ocotober is beat!
1647 2010-11-24 16:11:39 <Kiba> November have more posts
1648 2010-11-24 16:11:49 <Kiba> Next target to beat is August
1649 2010-11-24 16:12:14 <altamic> economic inductance can be balanced only with economic capacitance
1650 2010-11-24 16:12:31 <altamic> this is why we are alla slaves
1651 2010-11-24 16:13:02 <altamic> you can read it clearly
1652 2010-11-24 16:13:31 <altamic> here http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml
1653 2010-11-24 16:22:28 <xelister> Why not just arrest all people? Don't want to sit in a prison or at least be monitored at home by our cameras? Why, do you have anything to hide, pedorrist?
1654 2010-11-24 16:25:06 <Kiba> 1984
1655 2010-11-24 16:25:17 <Kiba> WAR IS PEACE
1656 2010-11-24 16:25:44 <Kiba> FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
1657 2010-11-24 16:25:50 <Kiba> and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
1658 2010-11-24 16:26:29 <xelister> yeah
1659 2010-11-24 16:26:45 <xelister> most Americans are ignorant. Well, bad education system is handy for gov
1660 2010-11-24 16:27:08 <xelister> actually, most people everywhere should be more educated
1661 2010-11-24 16:33:33 <Kiba> THE INTERNET
1662 2010-11-24 16:39:49 <Kiba> hmm
1663 2010-11-24 16:39:56 <Kiba> my left eye feel kinda tired
1664 2010-11-24 16:40:41 <MacRohard> education == indoctrination
1665 2010-11-24 16:41:55 <nanotube> some of it is... science and math are generally ok, economics is important but too but take with a grain of salt. :)
1666 2010-11-24 16:42:07 bitanarchy has joined
1667 2010-11-24 16:42:09 <MacRohard> eh. science is corrupt too
1668 2010-11-24 16:42:21 <altamic> MacRohard: I do agree
1669 2010-11-24 16:42:31 <MacRohard> economics is just the art of bullshiting
1670 2010-11-24 16:42:33 <Kiba> science is corrupt?
1671 2010-11-24 16:42:47 <Kiba> how can evolution and physics be corrupted?
1672 2010-11-24 16:42:47 <MacRohard> Kiba, yup. do whatever the grant wants
1673 2010-11-24 16:42:55 <MacRohard> money
1674 2010-11-24 16:43:17 <Kiba> money from the gov, money from corporations
1675 2010-11-24 16:43:25 <MacRohard> yup
1676 2010-11-24 16:43:57 <Kiba> textbook rackets
1677 2010-11-24 16:44:24 <brocktice> cold here today
1678 2010-11-24 16:44:28 <MacRohard> falsified research, circular assumptions
1679 2010-11-24 16:44:29 * brocktice warms his hands in his miner's exhaust
1680 2010-11-24 16:44:49 <Kiba> lol
1681 2010-11-24 16:44:51 <bitanarchy> How can I see which graphics driver I use on ubuntu?
1682 2010-11-24 16:44:52 <brocktice> works pretty well, seriously
1683 2010-11-24 16:44:55 <nanotube> well, sure, research direction (and sometimes the results as well) is influenced by money... but as far as 'science education', as in, learning about existing well-established science, is useful.
1684 2010-11-24 16:45:01 <altamic> especially physics,
1685 2010-11-24 16:45:07 <brocktice> bitanarchy, less /var/log/Xorg.0.log
1686 2010-11-24 16:45:11 <brocktice> should have some useful info
1687 2010-11-24 16:45:22 <MacRohard> eh. they still teach taht people landed on the moon
1688 2010-11-24 16:45:25 <nanotube> yes, especially physics. :)
1689 2010-11-24 16:45:30 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1690 2010-11-24 16:45:56 <nanotube> MacRohard: in what way does the question of whether people did or did not land on the moon affect your understanding of how the world works?
1691 2010-11-24 16:46:03 <nanotube> it is an irrelevant factoid, true or not.
1692 2010-11-24 16:46:51 <MacRohard> nanotube, i'm sure it's fucking up loads of research with faulty assumptions of what they claimed happened
1693 2010-11-24 16:47:06 <Kiba> why didn't the Soviet dispute the American
1694 2010-11-24 16:47:15 <MacRohard> why would they?
1695 2010-11-24 16:47:16 <altamic> nanotube:  case in point http://bit.ly/bflhez
1696 2010-11-24 16:47:25 <nanotube> MacRohard: i'm sure it is not, in fact, fucking up loads of research.
1697 2010-11-24 16:48:05 <MacRohard> nanotube, even simple things liek the density of the moon are in doubt
1698 2010-11-24 16:48:46 <brocktice> I can't wait til another country/mission lands on the moon
1699 2010-11-24 16:48:50 <brocktice> And finds the lander bases and rovers
1700 2010-11-24 16:48:57 <brocktice> to put all this conspiracy bullshit to rest
1701 2010-11-24 16:49:05 <Kiba> God, does anarchism attract all kind of weird people?
1702 2010-11-24 16:49:12 <Kiba> apperantly, yes.
1703 2010-11-24 16:50:14 <brocktice> Kiba, this is news to you?
1704 2010-11-24 16:50:23 <Kiba> no
1705 2010-11-24 16:50:25 <brocktice> oh
1706 2010-11-24 16:50:28 <brocktice> ok then :)
1707 2010-11-24 16:50:30 <nanotube> hehe
1708 2010-11-24 16:50:49 <Kiba> http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/downwind-faster-than-the-wind/
1709 2010-11-24 16:51:08 <Kiba> if people can't agree that cars can go downwind faster than the wind, than they can't agree if X cionspiracy is true
1710 2010-11-24 16:51:19 <nanotube> MacRohard: density of the moon can be approximated without needing to go to the moon...
1711 2010-11-24 16:51:19 <Kiba> I mean, even physicsts who should know better thought it is impossible
1712 2010-11-24 16:51:23 <brocktice> By the fact that we're all in IRC talking about bitcoin, we're already to a pretty fringe part of society.
1713 2010-11-24 16:51:44 <Kiba> most of fringe theory is wrong
1714 2010-11-24 16:51:55 <Kiba> but then again, much of conventional wisdom is wrong too
1715 2010-11-24 16:51:56 <nanotube> brocktice: you can even put a period after IRC :)
1716 2010-11-24 16:52:14 <brocktice> nanotube, yeah so it's doubly qualified
1717 2010-11-24 16:52:18 <nanotube> hehe
1718 2010-11-24 16:55:38 <bitanarchy> brocktice: I used 'sudo aticonfig --initial' to install the fglrx driver. But a restart failed with a scrambled command interface. I could barely restore the xorg.conf...
1719 2010-11-24 16:59:33 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1720 2010-11-24 17:00:09 <brocktice> bitanarchy, I had some strange problems with it today too
1721 2010-11-24 17:00:28 <brocktice> bitanarchy, you have just one display hooked up or what?
1722 2010-11-24 17:00:49 <bitanarchy> How do i properly install the driver for the HD5770?
1723 2010-11-24 17:01:07 <brocktice> aticonfig --initial -f works for me
1724 2010-11-24 17:02:35 <Diablo-D3> I wish people would quit running that command
1725 2010-11-24 17:02:44 <Diablo-D3> it produces a rather shit xorg.conf
1726 2010-11-24 17:02:51 <brocktice> Diablo-D3, it works, normally.
1727 2010-11-24 17:03:01 <Diablo-D3> yes, but its ugly looking and not elegant
1728 2010-11-24 17:03:34 altamic has left ()
1729 2010-11-24 17:03:40 <brocktice> Ugly and working is better than elegant and not working.
1730 2010-11-24 17:03:49 <bitanarchy> what is the easiest way to restart xorg?
1731 2010-11-24 17:04:00 <brocktice> sudo service gdm restart
1732 2010-11-24 17:04:05 <brocktice> logging out and back in should do it too
1733 2010-11-24 17:04:22 <Diablo-D3> assuming bitanarchy is on redhat and uses gnome, brocktice
1734 2010-11-24 17:04:36 <bitanarchy> ubuntu, gnome
1735 2010-11-24 17:04:47 <brocktice> Diablo-D3, I knew it was ubuntu and those instructions work there
1736 2010-11-24 17:04:52 <Diablo-D3> sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
1737 2010-11-24 17:05:03 <brocktice> no gdm has been migrated to upstart
1738 2010-11-24 17:05:08 <brocktice> it will bitch if you do that
1739 2010-11-24 17:05:16 <Diablo-D3> well, bitanarchy can quit using ubuntu then
1740 2010-11-24 17:05:19 <Diablo-D3> silly broken distros
1741 2010-11-24 17:09:06 bitanarchy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1742 2010-11-24 17:10:15 bitanarchy has joined
1743 2010-11-24 17:12:15 <bitanarchy> I got a segmentation fault on starting X... I wonder if I can find it in some log.
1744 2010-11-24 17:12:32 <brocktice> maybe something in dmesg
1745 2010-11-24 17:12:33 hippich_ has joined
1746 2010-11-24 17:16:50 bitanarchy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1747 2010-11-24 17:19:29 genjix has joined
1748 2010-11-24 17:28:04 dwdollar has joined
1749 2010-11-24 17:34:09 * Kiba goes to work on his drawing
1750 2010-11-24 17:42:51 <brocktice> hm, tx flood has started up again?
1751 2010-11-24 17:54:09 * Kiba looks for computer cases
1752 2010-11-24 18:04:40 <utyut> I just heard on the columbus ohio police scanner that some office recieved 50 boxes full of mary jane
1753 2010-11-24 18:05:03 <utyut> and the office called 911 to report it
1754 2010-11-24 18:10:10 <bonsaikitten> so the police will confiscate all 30 boxes?
1755 2010-11-24 18:12:36 <utyut> lol
1756 2010-11-24 18:17:46 warner has joined
1757 2010-11-24 18:30:54 <tylergillies> that town is gonna have some high police officers
1758 2010-11-24 18:35:12 Akiraa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1759 2010-11-24 18:46:16 Akiraa has joined
1760 2010-11-24 18:54:32 Toadyonps3 has quit (Quit: "If a tree falls in a forest, and it lands on Bill Gates, who wouldn't celebrate?)
1761 2010-11-24 19:11:00 bitanarchy has joined
1762 2010-11-24 19:12:46 <bitanarchy> I am considering installing a differnet platform. I am using ubuntu 10.10, but I can't get fglrx to work. Keep getting segmentation faults on fglrx. What linux platform is working well with 5770?
1763 2010-11-24 19:19:51 <brocktice> 10.04 is working fine for me on 5770s and 5970s
1764 2010-11-24 19:20:01 <brocktice> with Catalyst version 10.10
1765 2010-11-24 19:23:21 <bitanarchy> Do you use a 64 bit driver or does that not matter?
1766 2010-11-24 19:23:29 <brocktice> I use 64, don't know whether it matters
1767 2010-11-24 19:23:53 <bitanarchy> I used catalyst 10.11
1768 2010-11-24 19:25:15 <bitanarchy> There is also a driver in the ubuntu repository called fglrx... is that one not ok?
1769 2010-11-24 19:26:08 <brocktice> It's older
1770 2010-11-24 19:26:12 <brocktice> it should probably work though
1771 2010-11-24 19:31:02 * Kiba emites a strange laughter
1772 2010-11-24 19:31:12 <Kiba> today's agenda...draw hand
1773 2010-11-24 19:33:12 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1774 2010-11-24 19:41:19 zylche has joined
1775 2010-11-24 19:49:52 * Kiba trolls 4chan for hand references
1776 2010-11-24 20:00:55 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1777 2010-11-24 20:28:48 * jgarzik wonders if github has usage stats anywhere
1778 2010-11-24 20:33:36 <nanotube> jgarzik: usage stats as in, number of users/projects? or as in access count?
1779 2010-11-24 20:34:32 <nanotube> the former i think are out there somewhere.
1780 2010-11-24 20:36:19 <Kiba> HMM
1781 2010-11-24 20:36:23 <Kiba> Drawing hands is hard
1782 2010-11-24 20:37:41 Toadyonps3 has joined
1783 2010-11-24 20:40:05 <jgarzik> nanotube: number of people who've cloned my github repo
1784 2010-11-24 20:40:43 <tcatm> which timezone does bcm use?
1785 2010-11-24 20:41:07 * Kiba trolls 4chan again
1786 2010-11-24 20:44:52 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: I dont think it works that way.
1787 2010-11-24 20:47:35 <Kiba> I am just looking at the anime board
1788 2010-11-24 20:48:24 <nanotube> jgarzik: ah, not sure about that... you can see the people who have 'forked' it, but dunno if it keeps a record of access
1789 2010-11-24 20:49:28 <Kiba> there are statistics, jgarzik
1790 2010-11-24 20:49:34 <Kiba> but I am too busy drawing for $$$
1791 2010-11-24 21:00:52 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1792 2010-11-24 21:11:58 <kermit> there needs to be an consortium of interested parties to provide rewards for anyone who can successfully demonstrate, though not with full force, any exploits.
1793 2010-11-24 21:13:23 <Kiba> offer some security bounty then
1794 2010-11-24 21:14:31 <kermit> i dont have any stake right now, myself
1795 2010-11-24 21:16:54 <Kiba> no bitcoins?
1796 2010-11-24 21:27:12 niekie has joined
1797 2010-11-24 21:28:02 <kermit> nope
1798 2010-11-24 21:28:22 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1799 2010-11-24 21:31:40 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1800 2010-11-24 21:36:28 niekie has joined
1801 2010-11-24 21:39:30 <nanotube> bc,stats
1802 2010-11-24 21:39:36 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1803 2010-11-24 21:39:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 93650 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 1102 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 9 hours, 2 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7123.85035144
1804 2010-11-24 21:39:48 <nanotube> estimate > 7k, finally, again. :)
1805 2010-11-24 21:40:06 <kermit> i think ##economics has more scroll about bitcoin than here ;)  whenever i bring it up it's quite a discussion
1806 2010-11-24 21:42:38 <nanotube> heh yea i saw... though the usefulness of said discussion is low. :) one guy claiming "he bets he can break bitcoin easily", another guy asking "what's a hash"... heh
1807 2010-11-24 21:42:46 <kermit> hehe
1808 2010-11-24 21:50:00 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1809 2010-11-24 21:53:00 <Kiba> more scroll?
1810 2010-11-24 21:53:12 <Kiba> nanotube: tell him to bet real money
1811 2010-11-24 21:53:32 niekie has joined
1812 2010-11-24 21:53:33 <nanotube> there has to be a counterparty to take the bet. :)
1813 2010-11-24 21:54:46 <Kiba> bitcoins versus dollars bet?
1814 2010-11-24 21:54:56 <Kiba> if I win, I expect 100 btc, if I lose, I'll pay you dollars
1815 2010-11-24 21:57:55 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1816 2010-11-24 21:59:07 <nanotube> well talk to the guy, not to me. i'm not one making a bet. :)
1817 2010-11-24 22:04:54 niekie has joined
1818 2010-11-24 22:09:10 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1819 2010-11-24 22:11:23 <Kiba> HMM.
1820 2010-11-24 22:11:25 <Kiba> I sucks at hand
1821 2010-11-24 22:13:42 niekie has joined
1822 2010-11-24 22:15:39 AAA_awright has joined
1823 2010-11-24 22:17:55 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1824 2010-11-24 22:20:55 niekie has joined
1825 2010-11-24 22:25:25 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1826 2010-11-24 22:45:55 * Kiba finally finish his work for today
1827 2010-11-24 22:59:48 genjix has quit (Quit: Changing server)
1828 2010-11-24 23:12:43 hippich_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1829 2010-11-24 23:21:13 <tylergillies> i already broke bitcoin
1830 2010-11-24 23:21:20 <tylergillies> you are all using comprimised clients
1831 2010-11-24 23:21:52 <tylergillies> the fix is located at http://www...... ;)
1832 2010-11-24 23:23:24 <nanotube> haha
1833 2010-11-24 23:32:44 <Kiba> COPYFREE!
1834 2010-11-24 23:33:44 <Kiba> http://ubitio.us/file/download/19
1835 2010-11-24 23:33:56 <Kiba> SO, please download and support your local copyfree artist?
1836 2010-11-24 23:34:49 <MT`AwAy> wtf is that
1837 2010-11-24 23:34:51 <MT`AwAy> "upload (1).jpg" ? Oo
1838 2010-11-24 23:35:11 hippich_ has joined
1839 2010-11-24 23:35:14 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: it's a picture
1840 2010-11-24 23:35:49 <Kiba> don't ya know, I been drawing everyday on the same exact picture and uploading it to the net
1841 2010-11-24 23:36:12 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: nope, I've been busy the last week and wasn't reading here much
1842 2010-11-24 23:38:05 <tcatm> anyone good at writing articles? (for a few bitcoins)
1843 2010-11-24 23:38:13 <Kiba> what do you want to write
1844 2010-11-24 23:39:20 <tcatm> a good introduction how to use bitcoin, get the first free coins from the faucet and send 0.01 to someone
1845 2010-11-24 23:39:37 <tcatm> without much technical details
1846 2010-11-24 23:40:03 <Kiba> it's distract me...
1847 2010-11-24 23:46:53 <nanotube> tcatm: i could do that, if you tell me more about what you want to see, content-wise. and if you tell me more about what you mean by 'a few bitcoins' :) and how your needs are not fulfilled by bitcoinme.com :)
1848 2010-11-24 23:48:31 <djoot> Kiba: an Inuit elder and his shit knife, http://boingboing.net/2008/09/26/wade-davis-an-inuit.html
1849 2010-11-24 23:49:14 <djoot> you were talking about poo weapons so... :)
1850 2010-11-24 23:50:43 <Kiba> hmm, a transaction is sitting in limbo...
1851 2010-11-24 23:51:04 <Kiba> are we experiencing some kind of transaction attack?
1852 2010-11-24 23:51:46 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1853 2010-11-24 23:51:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 93661 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 1091 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 7 hours, 44 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7105.06407990
1854 2010-11-24 23:52:30 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1855 2010-11-24 23:53:27 ColonelPanic1 has joined