1 2010-11-30 00:00:08 <Lyspooner> ;;google pearson's correlation coeffecient
   2 2010-11-30 00:00:10 <gribble> Pearson product-moment correlation coefficient - Wikipedia, the ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_product-moment_correlation_coefficient>; Correlation and dependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_and_dependence>; Computing Pearson's Correlation Coefficient: <http://davidmlane.com/hyperstat/A51911.html>
   3 2010-11-30 00:04:14 <tcatm> Lyspooner: ~ 0.98002169273
   4 2010-11-30 00:04:26 <Lyspooner> wow
   5 2010-11-30 00:04:40 <Lyspooner> how many data points is that
   6 2010-11-30 00:04:42 <tcatm> What does that mean?
   7 2010-11-30 00:04:48 <theymos> Is that high or low correlation?
   8 2010-11-30 00:04:56 <tcatm> 21
   9 2010-11-30 00:05:10 <Lyspooner> high
  10 2010-11-30 00:05:12 <tcatm> 21 pairs of Diffculty, Price
  11 2010-11-30 00:05:57 <Lyspooner> that means price and difficulty are highly linearly dependent
  12 2010-11-30 00:06:39 <tcatm> Maybe I should rerun it with shorter intervals or weighted price. The 0.50 peak really skews the dataset.
  13 2010-11-30 00:07:56 <Lyspooner> your diff v price graph has two data points above 0.45?
  14 2010-11-30 00:08:22 <tcatm> one
  15 2010-11-30 00:08:49 <tcatm> http://pastebin.com/1uyk1eVR
  16 2010-11-30 00:09:22 <tcatm> price is arithmetic average
  17 2010-11-30 00:09:56 <Lyspooner> you should consider doing daily price settlements vs difficulty
  18 2010-11-30 00:10:38 <tcatm> Then multiple prices will have same difficulty. How should I graph that?
  19 2010-11-30 00:11:00 <Lyspooner> as a scatterplot
  20 2010-11-30 00:11:07 <Lyspooner> no need for the green line
  21 2010-11-30 00:11:56 <Lyspooner> .98 just doesn't sound right
  22 2010-11-30 00:13:01 <Lyspooner> your scatterplot will look like 21 collections of vertical gatherings of dots
  23 2010-11-30 00:13:22 <Lyspooner> but it will provide a truer sense of what happens at each difficulty level
  24 2010-11-30 00:19:39 * Zarutian finds http://www.dgcmagazine.com/blog/index.php/2010/11/28/another-great-article-on-bitcoins/ an easy read
  25 2010-11-30 00:19:39 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/price_vs_diff.png like this?
  26 2010-11-30 00:20:05 <Lyspooner> perfect!
  27 2010-11-30 00:20:18 <Lyspooner> those are daily settlements?
  28 2010-11-30 00:20:22 <tcatm> yes
  29 2010-11-30 00:20:31 <Lyspooner> could you think of any other price set you like to use?
  30 2010-11-30 00:20:33 <tcatm> floor(timestamp in days)
  31 2010-11-30 00:20:53 <tcatm> i'm using bcm*USD + mtgoxUSD
  32 2010-11-30 00:21:13 <Lyspooner> i mean hourly, every block, every day, etc
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  34 2010-11-30 00:21:48 <tcatm> there's not much happening intra day...
  35 2010-11-30 00:22:18 <Lyspooner> ok, then daily settles is fine.  that last graph is very instructive
  36 2010-11-30 00:22:37 <tcatm> Do you already know bitcoincharts?
  37 2010-11-30 00:22:44 <Lyspooner> kind of
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  39 2010-11-30 00:23:26 <tcatm> You can view intraday trades there. There aren't many.
  40 2010-11-30 00:23:35 <Lyspooner> use the same data for price v log diff
  41 2010-11-30 00:23:55 <tcatm> It's already log diff.
  42 2010-11-30 00:24:12 <jgarzik> Wrapping WriteBlockIndex() inside a transaction does seem to speed up local disk import (-initblocks).
  43 2010-11-30 00:24:15 <Lyspooner> oh, then just diff
  44 2010-11-30 00:24:59 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/price_vs_diff.png
  45 2010-11-30 00:25:28 <Lyspooner> same chart
  46 2010-11-30 00:25:48 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/price_vs_diff2.png
  47 2010-11-30 00:25:50 <tcatm> sorry
  48 2010-11-30 00:26:09 <Lyspooner> ok, that's the good one
  49 2010-11-30 00:26:28 <tcatm> pearson is ~ 0.94723391168
  50 2010-11-30 00:26:48 <Lyspooner> can you run a regression?
  51 2010-11-30 00:26:52 <tcatm> sure
  52 2010-11-30 00:27:18 <tcatm> How? (I'm using qalculate)
  53 2010-11-30 00:28:48 <Lyspooner> nm, pearson is the meaningful number
  54 2010-11-30 00:29:53 <tcatm> 0.94 is still very close to 1
  55 2010-11-30 00:30:58 <tcatm> 190 data points this time
  56 2010-11-30 00:31:00 <Lyspooner> it just means that the value of bitcoins are being kept very close to the costs of generating them
  57 2010-11-30 00:31:19 <Lyspooner> i mean, that's my interpretation
  58 2010-11-30 00:32:06 <Lyspooner> keep that chart somewhere accessible, eh?  thanks for your help!
  59 2010-11-30 00:33:21 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
  60 2010-11-30 00:34:30 <theymos> I'm a hero member on the forum now! :D
  61 2010-11-30 00:42:55 <gavinandresen> Anybody else have that "we don't need another hero" song going through their head right now?
  62 2010-11-30 00:43:46 <gavinandresen> (bleuch, don't like that song...   heroes....   David Bowie.... ah, that's better)
  63 2010-11-30 00:44:16 * jgarzik bets that block downloads will fly while WriteBlockIndex() change + better P2P peer selection
  64 2010-11-30 00:44:25 <jgarzik> s/while/with/
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  69 2010-11-30 01:12:28 <kermit> "banks need people a lot more than people need banks" -- http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2010/11/the_irish_banking_crisis_a_par.html
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  88 2010-11-30 02:34:18 <xelister> Diablo-D3: wazup o/
  89 2010-11-30 02:34:47 <xelister> Diablo-D3: Im thinking of adding openpgp (or other signatures) based download(over http) + verify auto updater, would you recommend something?
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  94 2010-11-30 02:48:06 JudStephenson_ is now known as JudStephenson
  95 2010-11-30 02:51:38 <ne0futur> xelister: in any case having pgp is useful for currency exchanges
  96 2010-11-30 02:51:41 <andrew12> haha
  97 2010-11-30 02:51:43 <andrew12> 1iDonOTwAntYouRBITcoInsSAvEthem
  98 2010-11-30 02:51:55 <Diablo-D3> xelister: meh.
  99 2010-11-30 02:56:10 <MT`AwAy> pgp is just a pain to embed into software
 100 2010-11-30 03:03:06 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 101 2010-11-30 03:03:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94631 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 120 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 17 hours, 13 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7969.74167797
 102 2010-11-30 03:04:24 <Kiba> chinese susasage awesome
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 110 2010-11-30 03:29:33 andrew12 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 111 2010-11-30 03:41:03 <nanotube> jgarzik: so... how's the block download with your changes? got that working yet? :)
 112 2010-11-30 03:46:00 AAA_awright_ has joined
 113 2010-11-30 03:47:48 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 114 2010-11-30 03:50:58 <Kiba> ArtForz must be feeling the pain today
 115 2010-11-30 03:51:24 acous has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 116 2010-11-30 03:51:43 <xelister> Kiba: because of drop?
 117 2010-11-30 03:51:58 <Kiba> hai
 118 2010-11-30 03:52:00 <xelister> btw what is current lowest $/BTC in electricity price alone?
 119 2010-11-30 03:52:33 <xelister> because this should be unbreakable lowest price (x1.5 because of hardware and people who can actually run a pro miner)
 120 2010-11-30 03:55:08 <xelister> daily say 3 blocks = 150 BTC on 5970
 121 2010-11-30 03:55:11 <nanotube> xelister: people for whom electricity is free, $0/btc.
 122 2010-11-30 03:55:35 <nanotube> xelister: e.g, artforz, for whom in the winter, he'd be heating his place anyway, so he might as well get some cpu work out of it.
 123 2010-11-30 03:55:36 <nanotube> :)
 124 2010-11-30 03:55:53 <nanotube> also people who run this on work/school computers, or people for whom utilities are included in rent
 125 2010-11-30 03:56:09 forrestv has joined
 126 2010-11-30 03:56:10 <xelister> damn communists
 127 2010-11-30 03:56:13 <xelister> ;)
 128 2010-11-30 03:56:13 <nanotube> haha
 129 2010-11-30 03:56:49 <xelister> isnt electrical heating noticibly more expensive then global heating
 130 2010-11-30 03:56:50 <nanotube> also, even assuming non-zero price for electricity, the price/btc will change depending on difficulty
 131 2010-11-30 03:56:59 <xelister> also, you either run it at school, or you have heating at home
 132 2010-11-30 03:57:01 <xelister> rarery both
 133 2010-11-30 03:57:11 <jgarzik> nanotube: the local block import is blazing fast with the patch I posted
 134 2010-11-30 03:57:17 <xelister> even then, you don't just find 10 5970's in your garrage
 135 2010-11-30 03:57:22 <jgarzik> nanotube: I'm blatantly assuming the block download is faster too
 136 2010-11-30 03:57:29 <nanotube> xelister: /me goes to look in the garage.
 137 2010-11-30 03:57:44 <nanotube> jgarzik: cool ;) that'd be great, to drop the startup cost to a newcomer.
 138 2010-11-30 03:58:04 <xelister> for me with stock bitcoin it takes around 15 minutes to catchup on fresh install
 139 2010-11-30 03:58:25 <jgarzik> another key piece is P2P peer competition:  bitcoin seems to pick one peer for the initial block download, which has all the obvious problems (might be slow; might not have all the blocks; ...) and it takes forever to pick a new peer
 140 2010-11-30 03:58:55 <jgarzik> my first test was blazingly fast... up to block 82000, where the download stopped cold for over an hour.
 141 2010-11-30 03:58:58 <xelister> hmm for me it takes 5-8 connections in around 15 minutes too
 142 2010-11-30 03:59:08 <xelister> but any speedups are really nice anyway :)
 143 2010-11-30 03:59:17 <nanotube> jgarzik: mmm well, i hope satoshi takes a serious look at that. :)
 144 2010-11-30 03:59:34 <nanotube> xelister: for me it took about an hour to get all blocks, back when we were at 60-some k blocks
 145 2010-11-30 04:00:08 <xelister> yeah I ment today
 146 2010-11-30 04:00:16 * xelister ponders his superior net connection
 147 2010-11-30 04:00:34 <nanotube> haha
 148 2010-11-30 04:02:23 <tylergillies> is it just me or is bitcoin forums lagsauce right now?
 149 2010-11-30 04:02:53 <Diablo-D3> blah
 150 2010-11-30 04:02:59 <nanotube> tylergillies: just you
 151 2010-11-30 04:03:00 <Diablo-D3> I just played supcom2 for 9 hours
 152 2010-11-30 04:04:00 <xelister> Diablo-D3: congratulations
 153 2010-11-30 04:05:11 <xelister> I this time I made both your miner and bitcoind crossbuildable to win
 154 2010-11-30 04:05:33 <xelister> mine.bat for win is same, just ; instead : in lib path
 155 2010-11-30 04:06:16 <Diablo-D3> and \ instead of /
 156 2010-11-30 04:08:31 <tylergillies> you just rm -fr /
 157 2010-11-30 04:08:35 <tylergillies> and away you go
 158 2010-11-30 04:11:07 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 159 2010-11-30 04:23:19 <Kiba> now, finally
 160 2010-11-30 04:23:24 <Kiba> I can hack some code
 161 2010-11-30 04:24:16 anarchyx has quit ()
 162 2010-11-30 04:24:19 Toadyonps3 has quit (Quit: "If a tree falls in a forest, and it lands on Bill Gates, who wouldn't celebrate?)
 163 2010-11-30 04:39:56 remmy_ has joined
 164 2010-11-30 04:50:10 <forrestv> is setting up a kind of bank possible? make it easier for users to use bitcoins by providing some infrastructure?
 165 2010-11-30 04:53:24 <doublec> That's essentially what mybitcoin.com is, isn't it?
 166 2010-11-30 04:53:43 <doublec> mtgox also provides similar functionality
 167 2010-11-30 04:57:35 <jgarzik> yep
 168 2010-11-30 05:06:37 * Kiba misread Haskell-cafe as Hayek-Cafe briefly
 169 2010-11-30 05:07:09 <Kiba> The last day of November is on us!
 170 2010-11-30 05:07:34 <Kiba> a milestone month
 171 2010-11-30 05:07:48 <doublec> it's almost over for some of us
 172 2010-11-30 05:07:56 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
 173 2010-11-30 05:08:11 <Kiba> in just 4 hours, 115 posts had already been posted
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 177 2010-11-30 05:38:05 * xelister reads http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/24/armys-revolutionary-rifle-use-afghanistan/?test=faces#content
 178 2010-11-30 05:38:09 * xelister scratches head
 179 2010-11-30 05:38:48 <xelister> is it foxnews subscribers, or are in fact most online active people from USA a what appears to be a mass off racist nationalist rednecks
 180 2010-11-30 05:38:56 <xelister> *of
 181 2010-11-30 05:39:31 <Kiba> xelister: yeah, but you'll be taking a moment to adjust
 182 2010-11-30 05:39:35 <MT`AwAy> [it] is so sophisticated that soldiers are proficient users literally within minutes <-- shouldn't it be the other way around?
 183 2010-11-30 05:39:53 <Kiba> *pop* up, and shoot the guy adjusting
 184 2010-11-30 05:40:04 <xelister> MT`AwAy: yeah I dont understand that phrase either
 185 2010-11-30 05:40:15 <xelister> "our boys" will kill.. "the bad guys"
 186 2010-11-30 05:40:51 <MT`AwAy> It also has a range of roughly 2,300 feet <- 0.7km
 187 2010-11-30 05:40:52 <xelister> probably that's not far away from average discussion in SS barracks
 188 2010-11-30 05:41:10 <xelister> really all comments are like that
 189 2010-11-30 05:41:22 <Kiba> training snipers is a very difficult job
 190 2010-11-30 05:41:34 <xelister> are 90% Americans forgetting they are the bad invadors in this war, or is foxnews massivly censuring the comments O_o
 191 2010-11-30 05:41:34 <Kiba> imagine training all your infantry men!
 192 2010-11-30 05:41:58 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: now you don't need training, your sniper is ready within minutes, just add some hot water and cover
 193 2010-11-30 05:42:28 <xelister> what this riffle needs, is a clippy assistant tutorial
 194 2010-11-30 05:43:00 <Kiba> xelister: hmm, I have a feeling that this weapon won't do much than my trusty M-16 or AK-47, especially in a heated firefight
 195 2010-11-30 05:43:08 <xelister> who to you want to kill today  (*) the bad guys  ( ) the terrorists  ( ) the dragons
 196 2010-11-30 05:43:41 <Kiba> but we never know right?
 197 2010-11-30 05:43:56 <xelister> well to me it sounds like the "good guys" will be shelling out tons of $ on expensive toys, that will break in real world conditions for milion reasons
 198 2010-11-30 05:44:03 <MT`AwAy> "That's how intuitively easy it is, even though it's high-tech," Lehner said. "All a soldier needs to know how to do is laze the target. It decimates anything within its lethal radius." <- can't wait to see that used in US universities
 199 2010-11-30 05:44:27 <xelister> and then the partisants will come in sandals and shoot everyone with AK-47, repairable with rocks and toothpaste/waster if needed
 200 2010-11-30 05:44:34 <Kiba> LOL
 201 2010-11-30 05:44:47 <Kiba> AK-47 is basically the open source rifle of the world
 202 2010-11-30 05:44:56 <Kiba> used by EVIL and GOOD...mostly EVIL
 203 2010-11-30 05:45:04 <xelister> now define evil
 204 2010-11-30 05:45:09 <Kiba> xelister: war-mongers
 205 2010-11-30 05:45:23 <xelister> but the USA starts most wars, not viceversa
 206 2010-11-30 05:45:23 <Kiba> faggots that massacre whole villages...
 207 2010-11-30 05:45:30 <xelister> so.. americans?
 208 2010-11-30 05:45:32 <Kiba> xelister: ain't talking about all the wars US start
 209 2010-11-30 05:45:45 <Kiba> just all the conflict that had occured variously around the world
 210 2010-11-30 05:45:49 <Kiba> blood diamond war...
 211 2010-11-30 05:45:52 <Kiba> that sorta thing
 212 2010-11-30 05:45:56 <MT`AwAy> some people still do wars without the help of US
 213 2010-11-30 05:46:14 <Kiba> yes, US isn't to blame for everything
 214 2010-11-30 05:46:33 <xelister> yeah, we see all the time the Good Americans  rescuing children in Affrica from diamond mines slavery, protectin China's desidents and rescuing them from work camps
 215 2010-11-30 05:46:34 <xelister> no... wait...
 216 2010-11-30 05:46:37 <Kiba> even if they are mean bullies
 217 2010-11-30 05:46:41 <xelister> that happened in the Reverse Universe.
 218 2010-11-30 05:46:55 <Kiba> xelister: you see mercenaries pushing back thugs in the blood dimaond war
 219 2010-11-30 05:46:59 <Kiba> executive decision
 220 2010-11-30 05:47:33 <Kiba> thugs that recruit child soldier, rape, plunder, etc
 221 2010-11-30 05:47:48 <Kiba> the UN peacekeeper are a bunch of weakling that failed to protect anything
 222 2010-11-30 05:48:36 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 223 2010-11-30 05:49:19 <MT`AwAy> http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/29/wikileaks.must.have.weapons/?hpt=C1 <- soon the XM25 there too?
 224 2010-11-30 05:52:05 <xelister> Kiba: guess who raped and killed children, and then their parents and family
 225 2010-11-30 05:52:27 <xelister> hint: they still think the God blessed them
 226 2010-11-30 05:52:52 <Kiba> if you have allegations, you better have ciation. Otherwise, don't waste my time.
 227 2010-11-30 05:52:58 <xelister> hint2: no, not the Islam god, but "our" catholic God, that should be against any killings etc
 228 2010-11-30 05:53:10 <Kiba> USA is protestiant...
 229 2010-11-30 05:53:14 <Kiba> protestant*
 230 2010-11-30 05:53:16 remmy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 231 2010-11-30 05:53:24 <Kiba> but that doesn't matter much, does it?
 232 2010-11-30 05:53:39 <xelister> "The Mahmudiyah killings and gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops occurred on March 12, 2006, in a house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, which is south of Baghdad, Iraq. Five United States Army soldiers of the 502nd Infantry Regiment were charged with the crimes"
 233 2010-11-30 05:53:40 <Kiba> ethnic cleansing is still ethnic cleansing
 234 2010-11-30 05:53:43 <xelister> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings
 235 2010-11-30 05:54:49 <Kiba> some of the soldiers got sentenced to serious times
 236 2010-11-30 05:54:55 <Kiba> it's an example of justice being doled out.
 237 2010-11-30 05:55:07 <Kiba> On August 3, 2007, Private first class Spielman, 23, was sentenced by a court martial to 110 years in prison, with the possibility of parole after 10 years. He was convicted of rape, conspiracy to commit rape, housebreaking with intent to rape and four counts of felony murder
 238 2010-11-30 05:55:17 <Kiba> 110 years, yeah as if he can live that long.
 239 2010-11-30 05:55:27 <Kiba> he will rot in jail for the rest of his life
 240 2010-11-30 05:55:37 <xelister> yeah, well, whetever god :) all  this protenstantism-catholic-etc could as well be same god in different names basically. Anyway, the "good God". How can people that start wars and are most militarized / war-loving nation in civilized world, claim *this* God blessed them?? I don't recall Jesus/etc shooting Rome soliders and his cators, didn't he like, took all the hits and so on ;)
 241 2010-11-30 05:56:11 <Kiba> xelister: dude, these dudes are actually guilty of serious crimes
 242 2010-11-30 05:56:27 <xelister> Kiba: other US solider, that raped a small girl in Japan, got 6 years. I bet you have see it to belive it (url) too?
 243 2010-11-30 05:56:35 <xelister> 6 years
 244 2010-11-30 05:56:52 <xelister> in USA he would get like 6,000 years (with current moral panic mode) for /lookin/ at a minor girl
 245 2010-11-30 05:57:06 <MT`AwAy> xelister: which one?
 246 2010-11-30 05:57:20 <MT`AwAy> there are many occurences of US army ppl raping little girls here
 247 2010-11-30 05:57:52 <MT`AwAy> most are covered by the US army and/or japanese governement, and only make it to small local newspapers
 248 2010-11-30 05:58:11 <xelister> for example "Last week, a 38-year-old Marine, Tyrone Hadnott, was arrested on suspicion of raping a 14-year-old girl on Okinawa, an incident that has rekindled memories of the 1995 rape of a 12-year-old girl on the island."
 249 2010-11-30 05:58:13 <Kiba> xelister: you percevie somethign negative and blown it out of protion.
 250 2010-11-30 05:58:28 <xelister> Kiba: well yea, he just raped her. Big deal
 251 2010-11-30 05:58:30 <Kiba> proportion...
 252 2010-11-30 05:58:49 acous has joined
 253 2010-11-30 05:58:57 <Kiba> WE MUST BE EVIL BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY COVER THE FUCKING CRIMES
 254 2010-11-30 05:59:19 <xelister> on the other hand a couple in love gets charges with possible jail time for seeing eachother naked. and being charged as "sexual predators".
 255 2010-11-30 05:59:27 <Kiba> there were massacre in Vietnam. You didn't think the media didn't know that?
 256 2010-11-30 05:59:33 <xelister> obviously 1 is out of proportion and 2 is not.  or?
 257 2010-11-30 05:59:53 <Kiba> xelister: and people actually cry out in the United States that THIS IS INSANE.
 258 2010-11-30 06:00:05 <xelister> and yet this is still happening isn't it
 259 2010-11-30 06:00:09 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: USA has lots of fun people
 260 2010-11-30 06:00:11 <xelister> but wait it gets better
 261 2010-11-30 06:00:24 <xelister> 1) it is fine in USA to molest and grope children
 262 2010-11-30 06:00:30 LobsterMan has joined
 263 2010-11-30 06:00:34 <xelister> 2) it is horrible crime in USA to look and 17 year olds naked
 264 2010-11-30 06:00:44 <xelister> 3) it is not so very bad to rape someone by USA citizen
 265 2010-11-30 06:00:52 <xelister> Kiba: 3 we already know, now guess what is 1 and 2
 266 2010-11-30 06:01:03 <Kiba> sensational coverage
 267 2010-11-30 06:01:08 <xelister> and tell me how 1+2+3 != totall shizofrenia and get 25 BTC ;)
 268 2010-11-30 06:01:43 <xelister> you got 2 minutes, since 1 is trivial
 269 2010-11-30 06:01:59 <Kiba> you know about it, because the media in the states know about it.
 270 2010-11-30 06:02:43 <Kiba> purtiantial parents. we're still working on that.
 271 2010-11-30 06:02:48 <xelister> Kiba: last 60 seconds to guess when/where/how it is o.k. in USA to watch naked children and grope them... win 25 BTC
 272 2010-11-30 06:03:05 <Kiba> where would it be? Huh?
 273 2010-11-30 06:03:11 <xelister> 50
 274 2010-11-30 06:03:38 <xelister> actually  there are at least 2 responses, but the 2nd one is being fixed (and this is actually good)
 275 2010-11-30 06:03:59 <Kiba> sentenced to 90 years in prison....
 276 2010-11-30 06:04:05 <Kiba> sentenced to 110 years in prison.
 277 2010-11-30 06:04:24 <xelister> no, where it is ok to touch children and not get to any prison nor get any trouble ;)
 278 2010-11-30 06:04:26 <Kiba> for the rape and killing of a girl and her family
 279 2010-11-30 06:04:32 <xelister> time's up. MT`AwAy do you know?
 280 2010-11-30 06:04:47 <Kiba> why don't you just tell us?
 281 2010-11-30 06:04:54 <Kiba> you feel smug about telling Americans how evil they are?
 282 2010-11-30 06:05:33 <xelister> no, I feel amazed how schizophrenically self-contradicting US laws and typical general behaviour can get
 283 2010-11-30 06:06:45 <xelister> Kiba: http://www.anonymoushints.com/2010/11/18/tsa-molests-children/
 284 2010-11-30 06:06:59 <Kiba> xelister: and you know this because Americans know it.
 285 2010-11-30 06:07:27 <Kiba> well, at least those who flys
 286 2010-11-30 06:07:29 <xelister> you mean the airport "security" stuff? or the war crimes stuff
 287 2010-11-30 06:07:51 <Kiba> those who fly would care..but the majority of Americans...don't fly.
 288 2010-11-30 06:08:02 <Kiba> well, I care, but I am an anarchist
 289 2010-11-30 06:08:27 <Kiba> they'll learn.
 290 2010-11-30 06:08:44 <Kiba> soon enough as "security" farce expand
 291 2010-11-30 06:09:10 <Kiba> then, someday, a plane will blow up anyway.
 292 2010-11-30 06:09:37 <Kiba> because the security aren't....actually real.
 293 2010-11-30 06:09:45 <xelister> I bet 75% American population is too weak to stand up to own gov., and will become effectivly slave-class in many ways (although less obvious then in acient Egypt or Rome)
 294 2010-11-30 06:10:15 <Kiba> what about the European?
 295 2010-11-30 06:10:25 <xelister> it doesn't look good here as well
 296 2010-11-30 06:10:41 <xelister> but so far the gov's are less paranoid and there is less crazy stuff like that
 297 2010-11-30 06:10:45 <Kiba> well, 46 of US states are running a deficit
 298 2010-11-30 06:10:48 <xelister> it seems to spread from USA to EU soemhow
 299 2010-11-30 06:10:48 <MT`AwAy> is there anywhere where things looks good? none as far as I know
 300 2010-11-30 06:10:50 <Kiba> the feds are running a deficit
 301 2010-11-30 06:11:04 <Kiba> the whole slavery thing might as well be a m00t point.
 302 2010-11-30 06:11:13 <Kiba> we're going to be worrying about hyperinflation
 303 2010-11-30 06:11:36 <xelister> MT`AwAy: perhaps in arabic countries... lol what an irony. You get tons of chicks, everyone listens to you, drugs are legal etc
 304 2010-11-30 06:11:49 <xelister> but seriously though, there are other totally crazy laws
 305 2010-11-30 06:12:05 <Kiba> democracies tend to create laws
 306 2010-11-30 06:12:09 <Kiba> that are crazy
 307 2010-11-30 06:12:13 <xelister> yeah its sad, even in democracy people can't end up with socieity and laws that do not totally suck donkey's cock
 308 2010-11-30 06:12:26 <xelister> at least so far people seem to failed at it
 309 2010-11-30 06:12:32 <Kiba> in a democracy, everyone want to vote for themsleves money
 310 2010-11-30 06:12:35 <Kiba> no fiscal discipline.
 311 2010-11-30 06:12:55 <Kiba> let take the minority!!!1111
 312 2010-11-30 06:13:13 <Kiba> sometime, it's the others way around..but government is essentially organized plunder
 313 2010-11-30 06:15:45 <xelister> Kiba: btw, the security farce already is ludicrous
 314 2010-11-30 06:16:51 <Kiba> xelister: well it didn't spread to the mall yet
 315 2010-11-30 06:17:18 <Kiba> it's only the airports
 316 2010-11-30 06:17:22 <Kiba> but malls are soft targets too
 317 2010-11-30 06:17:29 <Kiba> you could probably bring a bomb in and explode it
 318 2010-11-30 06:17:38 <Kiba> in a crowd of people
 319 2010-11-30 06:18:03 <MT`AwAy> I think people should be checked at train stations too, especially at rush hours
 320 2010-11-30 06:18:04 <Kiba> maybe, who knows?
 321 2010-11-30 06:18:45 <Kiba> dogs that sniff for bombs instead of cocaine..
 322 2010-11-30 06:18:58 <Kiba> maybe, actually cheaper than all the fancyscanner
 323 2010-11-30 06:19:51 <xelister> heh lol... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/ian02302/TSAHitler.jpg
 324 2010-11-30 06:20:05 <xelister> yeah it's primitve but funny imo
 325 2010-11-30 06:20:11 <Kiba> man
 326 2010-11-30 06:20:18 <Kiba> xelister got me into a waste of time
 327 2010-11-30 06:20:33 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: if you don't want to waste time, don't be on irc :D
 328 2010-11-30 06:20:35 <Kiba> have I learn anything substantial. Nothing much.
 329 2010-11-30 06:20:47 <xelister> who knows, perhaps thinking about how your country is going to shit is actually less waste of time then watching 623th lolcat ;)
 330 2010-11-30 06:22:03 <xelister> btw, I found the other articles I was looking for
 331 2010-11-30 06:22:22 <xelister> 12-year-old schoolgirl was raped and left for dead by three U.S. serviceman on the southern island of Okinawa, reluctant home to the bulk of U.S. military facilities in Japan. That 1995 crime shook the half-century alliance, sparking huge anti-US rallies and cries of "never again." The pleas were ignored: Last year a 14-year-old was sexually assaulted by a U.S. Marine, one of several similar attacks on Japanese and Filipino women.
 332 2010-11-30 06:23:00 <Kiba> seesh, what with the military men sexual assualt?
 333 2010-11-30 06:23:49 * Kiba ignores xelister for his own good.
 334 2010-11-30 06:24:09 <Kiba> as evil as people are, I won't get anything productive done
 335 2010-11-30 06:24:24 <xelister> http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090303zg.html
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 340 2010-11-30 07:15:52 joe_1 has joined
 341 2010-11-30 07:18:49 <joe_1> bitcoin price is plummeting - time to sell?
 342 2010-11-30 07:21:46 * Kiba likes the plummeting effect
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 345 2010-11-30 07:29:56 <xelister> any idea what causes this drop?
 346 2010-11-30 07:32:07 <joe_1> arbitration on mining
 347 2010-11-30 07:35:34 <ne0futur> or time to buy
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 349 2010-11-30 07:38:54 <xelister> arbitration on mining? what you mean by that
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 358 2010-11-30 09:09:24 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 359 2010-11-30 09:09:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94680 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 71 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 9 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7999.17633605
 360 2010-11-30 09:34:42 altamic has joined
 361 2010-11-30 09:38:21 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 362 2010-11-30 09:38:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94682 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 69 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 52 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7993.95044195
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 369 2010-11-30 10:03:55 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 370 2010-11-30 10:03:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94687 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 64 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 9 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7999.37001890
 371 2010-11-30 10:21:03 altamic has joined
 372 2010-11-30 10:30:09 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 373 2010-11-30 10:30:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94692 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 59 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 25 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8010.38064632
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 382 2010-11-30 11:09:40 altamic has joined
 383 2010-11-30 11:17:55 <altamic> does anybody know if one can build bitcoin with a boost version > 1.42 ?
 384 2010-11-30 11:41:32 nelisky has joined
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 390 2010-11-30 12:00:23 <manveru> altamic: 1.45 works
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 398 2010-11-30 12:45:15 <xelister> what you think are chances btx going backto 0.30 or more in next 1 month?
 399 2010-11-30 12:49:50 davux has joined
 400 2010-11-30 12:51:38 <andrew12> huh?
 401 2010-11-30 12:54:57 <xelister> andrew12: http://mtgox.com/  0.22 is the exchange rate. Do you think it will go up over 0.30 again soon?
 402 2010-11-30 12:55:19 <andrew12> i dunno
 403 2010-11-30 12:55:26 <andrew12> it really depends on the market :P
 404 2010-11-30 12:57:27 <xelister> well, that is what I ment
 405 2010-11-30 12:57:42 <xelister> :) does anyone know what happens to the value of BTC and so on
 406 2010-11-30 12:58:09 <xelister> I can estimate speed of generation, kW/BTC and so on, but not sure about the actuall resulting USD/BTC economical value
 407 2010-11-30 12:59:13 <MT`AwAy> xelister: the actual value depends on trust
 408 2010-11-30 12:59:23 <MT`AwAy> if people trust into btc and keep/buy them, the price will increase
 409 2010-11-30 12:59:35 <MT`AwAy> if people do not trust btc and sell it as soon as they can, price will fall
 410 2010-11-30 12:59:40 <xelister> perhaps we should tell American's BTC's are god-blessed
 411 2010-11-30 12:59:54 <xelister> s/'//
 412 2010-11-30 13:00:05 <MT`AwAy> ask the pope to bless some btc and sell 'em
 413 2010-11-30 13:00:20 <xelister> that actually makes sense
 414 2010-11-30 13:00:38 <MT`AwAy> yes, blessing something that has no existence shouldn't be a problem
 415 2010-11-30 13:01:21 davux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 416 2010-11-30 13:01:52 <xelister> "BTC. Paying my altar server boys was never so easy! Best thing SS!" -- Pope Benedict XVI
 417 2010-11-30 13:01:57 <MT`AwAy> anyway the only thing stronger than trust is faith
 418 2010-11-30 13:02:06 <xelister> yeah and that too
 419 2010-11-30 13:02:14 <xelister> >_>
 420 2010-11-30 13:04:18 <MT`AwAy> faith is also stronger than truth
 421 2010-11-30 13:28:04 <edcba> we don't have enough btc exchanges
 422 2010-11-30 13:28:27 <edcba> it's hard to trust mtgox
 423 2010-11-30 13:28:52 <lfm> I havnt had any trouble with mtgox
 424 2010-11-30 13:29:09 <nelisky> edcba: why don't you trust mtgox?
 425 2010-11-30 13:29:42 <nelisky> I've had a chance to chat through email with the owner a number of times, and he always walked the extra mile to help me
 426 2010-11-30 13:30:15 <edcba> i just want to say that trusting only one entity is dangerous
 427 2010-11-30 13:31:04 <lfm> so you either dont have any specific complaints or you just dont want to say what they are
 428 2010-11-30 13:31:38 <nelisky> well, you are free to create another entity if you feel that's lacking
 429 2010-11-30 13:31:39 <edcba> no i think mtgox does his best
 430 2010-11-30 13:32:10 <nelisky> I'll help you out in any way I can, but there *are* other entities, mtgox just appears to have the best workflow
 431 2010-11-30 13:32:16 <nelisky> thus all the volume
 432 2010-11-30 13:32:23 <edcba> running some exchange is quite dangerous :)
 433 2010-11-30 13:32:29 <MT`AwAy> :p
 434 2010-11-30 13:32:45 <lfm> it shouldnt be dangerous if you do it right
 435 2010-11-30 13:32:47 <MT`AwAy> I'm thinking of selling all the bitcoins I get from selling domains & vps in bitcoins
 436 2010-11-30 13:32:56 <edcba> lfm: depends on your country
 437 2010-11-30 13:34:03 <xelister> dengerous?
 438 2010-11-30 13:34:13 <lfm> which country are you thinking of?
 439 2010-11-30 13:34:28 <xelister> did USA started "war on virtual values" now? already done with war/iraq/etc?
 440 2010-11-30 13:34:41 <edcba> some eu country
 441 2010-11-30 13:35:17 <MT`AwAy> xelister: in most countries, stuff related to money is reglemented
 442 2010-11-30 13:35:44 <edcba> egold had some problem with US already afaik
 443 2010-11-30 13:35:46 <MT`AwAy> I can imagine mining BTC being assimilated to printing money by uncooperative countries
 444 2010-11-30 13:36:07 <edcba> and if US hears that bitcoin is like egold and P2P together :)
 445 2010-11-30 13:36:17 <edcba> that won't rejoice them
 446 2010-11-30 13:36:34 <MT`AwAy> you'll have RIAA trying to stop bitcoins without even understanding it's not file sharing
 447 2010-11-30 13:36:53 <edcba> a money that prevents devaluation by authorities
 448 2010-11-30 13:37:08 <edcba> i doubt that US gov would like that
 449 2010-11-30 13:37:21 <MT`AwAy> a money nobody can control, I doubt anyone currently in control would like that
 450 2010-11-30 13:37:44 <lfm> so how is it different from say real gold
 451 2010-11-30 13:37:48 <edcba> nobody is still better than some enemy
 452 2010-11-30 13:37:56 <edcba> lfm: real gold doesn't matter
 453 2010-11-30 13:38:02 <edcba> you don't pay oil with gold
 454 2010-11-30 13:38:05 davux has joined
 455 2010-11-30 13:38:08 <lfm> real gold doesnt inflate
 456 2010-11-30 13:38:15 <lfm> you can use it like currencie
 457 2010-11-30 13:38:34 <xelister> BITCOIN oh noes
 458 2010-11-30 13:38:37 <edcba> you'll never pay something on internet with real gold
 459 2010-11-30 13:38:37 <xelister> its used by terrorists
 460 2010-11-30 13:38:41 <lfm> you could buy oil with gold if you wanted
 461 2010-11-30 13:38:42 <xelister> and pedophiles
 462 2010-11-30 13:38:54 <xelister> and other people that are against TSA patdowns of children ... DAMN COMMUNISTS
 463 2010-11-30 13:39:03 <MT`AwAy> [22:38:13] <lfm> you can use it like currencie <- they did that before, but then they saw real gold wasn't easy to control
 464 2010-11-30 13:39:18 <lfm> I bet lots of people would accept gold on internet. just try it on ebay or something
 465 2010-11-30 13:39:43 <MT`AwAy> trade of gold is reglemented in many countries
 466 2010-11-30 13:39:49 redengin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 467 2010-11-30 13:39:53 <MT`AwAy> and selling gold without declaring it is then illegal there
 468 2010-11-30 13:39:56 <edcba> i doubt ebay let me pay with gold
 469 2010-11-30 13:40:04 <lfm> there are those gold jewelry places will give you dollars for gold
 470 2010-11-30 13:40:17 <xelister> btw, can nodes see that transactions are doing to the same receiver X if X is using new bitcoin address for each transaction?
 471 2010-11-30 13:40:23 <MT`AwAy> lfm: they usually require an ID and will declare sales/buys
 472 2010-11-30 13:40:26 <xelister> assuming the IP was hidden in example by tor
 473 2010-11-30 13:40:33 <lfm> ecba not up to ebay, its up to the people selling on ebay
 474 2010-11-30 13:40:40 <MT`AwAy> xelister: shouldn't
 475 2010-11-30 13:40:54 <xelister> how well tor hides now?
 476 2010-11-30 13:41:04 <edcba> how ebay will earn its fee ?
 477 2010-11-30 13:41:06 <MT`AwAy> xelister: even without hiding the ip, bitcoins makes it difficult to know that the peer transmitting you a transaction is actually the author
 478 2010-11-30 13:41:19 <MT`AwAy> ie. using tor or not makes no difference
 479 2010-11-30 13:41:36 <lfm> MT`AwAy, thats irrelevant, it is like money. if you try to spend more than 10,000 $ cash there are many places will demand ID too
 480 2010-11-30 13:41:38 <edcba> tor makes it more certain
 481 2010-11-30 13:41:56 <MT`AwAy> lfm: I don't know about US, but in France and Japan they fill declarations with the ID details
 482 2010-11-30 13:42:16 <lfm> MT`AwAy, so? it is still money
 483 2010-11-30 13:42:45 davux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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 485 2010-11-30 13:43:22 <MT`AwAy> lfm: with gold you get the part "what you own has a real value" but not the part "you're free to use your money without having someone spying on you"
 486 2010-11-30 13:43:40 <MT`AwAy> while bitcoin allows both (well, the first part remains to be seen I guess)
 487 2010-11-30 13:44:01 <lfm> you are never "free to use your money without spying". Even cash has serial numbers they can track
 488 2010-11-30 13:44:12 <MT`AwAy> that's why I didn't mention cash
 489 2010-11-30 13:44:15 <MT`AwAy> but bitcoin
 490 2010-11-30 13:44:32 <lfm> ok so then bitcoin isnt money
 491 2010-11-30 13:44:45 <MT`AwAy> (cash has some degree of liberty, however it has only a value because your country backs it)
 492 2010-11-30 13:45:36 <lfm> any money only has value cuz someone "backs" it. bitcoin is a bit odd cuz the "backing" is distibuted instead of centralized is all
 493 2010-11-30 13:46:06 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin is only backed by individuals willing to buy some
 494 2010-11-30 13:46:31 <MT`AwAy> anyway a lot of people (governements?) would have really good reasons to try to kill bitcoins, and if I were them I'd do it before the network gets too big and too stable
 495 2010-11-30 13:47:05 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 496 2010-11-30 13:47:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94722 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 29 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 hours, 7 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8037.91993711
 497 2010-11-30 13:47:36 <lfm> ya well the US gov tried to ban its people from trading in gold for a while too but gave up. I dont think they will care about bitcoin except to try to track down drug dealers and terrorist who use it
 498 2010-11-30 13:48:06 <MT`AwAy> lfm: don't forget tax evasion
 499 2010-11-30 13:48:21 <lfm> ya maybe that too
 500 2010-11-30 13:48:43 <lfm> tracking down abusers is different from banning the whole system tho
 501 2010-11-30 13:48:56 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin makes tracking virtually impossible
 502 2010-11-30 13:49:09 <lfm> well thats debatable
 503 2010-11-30 13:49:34 <MT`AwAy> that could be compared to tracking whoever is behind wikileaks instead of tracking whoever leaked stuff
 504 2010-11-30 13:49:57 <lfm> I think its more comparable to tracking serial numbers on cash
 505 2010-11-30 13:50:47 <MT`AwAy> tracking serial numbers on cash is useful only when large amounts of cash are moved around, small amounts can be spent at merchants and can change hands a lot of times before reaching a bank
 506 2010-11-30 13:52:04 <lfm> sounds similar to bitcoin. you may have trouble tracking many individual transaction but if someone tries to use it a lot they will probably be much easier to track
 507 2010-11-30 13:53:23 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin transactions are made hard to track by the fact each individual has many addresses, and can still be made harder to track
 508 2010-11-30 13:53:51 <lfm> MT`AwAy, cash has LOTS of diffent serial numbers so its similar
 509 2010-11-30 13:54:03 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 510 2010-11-30 13:54:30 <MT`AwAy> lfm: the difference is the fact a serial number will not change on cash, you can do bitcoin laundering easily
 511 2010-11-30 13:54:52 <MT`AwAy> for example send bitcoins on mtgox or any site providing similar facility, then withdraw it (it will almost always be withdrawn from a different address)
 512 2010-11-30 13:55:03 <lfm> MT`AwAy, I dont think btc laundering is easy
 513 2010-11-30 13:55:14 <MT`AwAy> unless you ask mtgox (and supposing such records are kept) you cannot link the original transaction with the new one
 514 2010-11-30 13:55:36 sneak has joined
 515 2010-11-30 13:55:41 <MT`AwAy> lfm: btc laundering is made easy by all those sites that allows putting & withdrawing bitcoins
 516 2010-11-30 13:55:53 <altamic> I am trying to compile bt 3.17 on a snow leopard. I get this mess: http://pastie.org/1335285
 517 2010-11-30 13:55:57 <lfm> mtgox has records of people how use it. I suspect mtgox might be suseptible to supeonas of records
 518 2010-11-30 13:56:03 sneak is now known as Guest65650
 519 2010-11-30 13:56:12 <MT`AwAy> lfm: there's not only mtgox
 520 2010-11-30 13:56:31 <MT`AwAy> since there is no fee, you can use as many services as you want
 521 2010-11-30 13:56:49 <MT`AwAy> anyway the first difficulty is to know that the funds were received by mtgox
 522 2010-11-30 13:57:13 <lfm> yup, of course theres alots. the thing is if you ever want to actuallspend the value you have in BTC you are vunerable to getting tracked down
 523 2010-11-30 13:57:17 <MT`AwAy> and unless you subpena every such service, you cannot be 100% sure funds didn't get to one of those
 524 2010-11-30 13:57:39 <MT`AwAy> [22:57:10] <lfm> yup, of course theres alots. the thing is if you ever want to actuallspend the value you have in BTC you are vunerable to getting tracked down <- I wouldn't believe so
 525 2010-11-30 13:58:51 <MT`AwAy> you receive amount X, you distribute it in X1 X2 X3 ... X99, charge at various providers, withdraw smaller amounts on random addresses (all through api), then you convert the various different amount to whatever you want, bits per bits
 526 2010-11-30 13:59:15 <MT`AwAy> repeat the provider use part as many times as needed
 527 2010-11-30 14:00:10 <lfm> you can tell what BTC addresses got the funds. if any are  known address at all you can start tracking. its hard to control where it will go after you give it to someone who may or may not be as carefull as you and then they can point back to you
 528 2010-11-30 14:00:47 <MT`AwAy> lfm: mtgox will generate a new address each time you want to add bitcoins
 529 2010-11-30 14:01:05 <MT`AwAy> and funds will stay there until someone else withdraw funds and mtgox's bitcoin client decide to take funds from there
 530 2010-11-30 14:01:36 <MT`AwAy> also you can make tracking harder by including many transactions to yourself with many different bitcoin addresses
 531 2010-11-30 14:01:57 <MT`AwAy> anyway, bitcoin laundering is easy, mainly because it's the main focus of bitcoin
 532 2010-11-30 14:02:06 <lfm> ya, and you dont know who mtgox migh send those coint too. if they are trackable they can point back to mtgox and mtgox can track the coins back to where they got em
 533 2010-11-30 14:02:38 <MT`AwAy> lfm: you won't know it got to mtgox until you subponea mtgox, however you have no proof it got to mtgox
 534 2010-11-30 14:03:06 <MT`AwAy> can you subponea every single entity accepting bitcoins and allowing bitcoin withdrawals without any indication on which one(s) was used?
 535 2010-11-30 14:03:09 <lfm> MT`AwAy, huh? the BTC chain is public
 536 2010-11-30 14:03:23 <MT`AwAy> yes, but you don't know that address X is owned by mtgox, for example
 537 2010-11-30 14:03:27 <lfm> you only need one link, not all of them
 538 2010-11-30 14:03:42 <MT`AwAy> you want to add funds to mtgox, mtgox gives you an unique address only for this purpose
 539 2010-11-30 14:03:54 <lfm> if mtgox pays someone from that address then it was his
 540 2010-11-30 14:03:56 <MT`AwAy> later, mtgox may use this very address to pay someone totally unrelated
 541 2010-11-30 14:04:23 <MT`AwAy> chances of getting back the exact same funds from mtgox are really low
 542 2010-11-30 14:04:32 <lfm> MT`AwAy, and he has record of where that transaction came from
 543 2010-11-30 14:04:48 <MT`AwAy> lfm: the chain doesn't show that address X was owned by mtgox
 544 2010-11-30 14:05:05 <MT`AwAy> it only show that funds went in there, then were sent to someone else
 545 2010-11-30 14:05:09 <lfm> not till you find someone who got coins from that chain
 546 2010-11-30 14:05:11 <MT`AwAy> then this someone else will have used the funds somewhere else
 547 2010-11-30 14:05:18 <MT`AwAy> it may take a while
 548 2010-11-30 14:05:29 <lfm> so you admit it is possible
 549 2010-11-30 14:05:42 <MT`AwAy> and once you have found the final recepient (which is very unlikely)
 550 2010-11-30 14:05:47 <MT`AwAy> you have to rewind the whole chain
 551 2010-11-30 14:05:55 <MT`AwAy> because the payment was forked on many occasions
 552 2010-11-30 14:06:23 <lfm> yup, it may not be easy or cheap. you need good excuses for speopnas and stuff
 553 2010-11-30 14:06:31 <MT`AwAy> and by that time, mtgox or whoever got the coins might have throwed away the logs
 554 2010-11-30 14:06:36 <MT`AwAy> because it's been 10 or 20 years
 555 2010-11-30 14:06:52 <lfm> feh, days or months. not that long
 556 2010-11-30 14:07:16 <MT`AwAy> depends on your organisation
 557 2010-11-30 14:07:43 <lfm> we were talking about tax evaders for instance. so its a gov with lots of resources
 558 2010-11-30 14:07:48 <MT`AwAy> with cash, at some point cash is returned to a bank, so you know who returned them, which means whoever wants to track bitcoins will need a place where people will definitly put their bitcoins
 559 2010-11-30 14:08:31 <lfm> lots of addresses are public, you just have to get one of them in the chain to start tracing back or forward
 560 2010-11-30 14:08:39 <MT`AwAy> :D
 561 2010-11-30 14:08:40 <MT`AwAy> not that easy
 562 2010-11-30 14:08:53 <MT`AwAy> receiver who makes their address public usually not know who are sending them money
 563 2010-11-30 14:09:01 sgornick has joined
 564 2010-11-30 14:09:09 <lfm> not easy to control once the btc are out of your hands either
 565 2010-11-30 14:09:11 <MT`AwAy> you can only track by private addresses generated uniquely for a transaction or an account
 566 2010-11-30 14:09:57 <MT`AwAy> let's say I give 5% of the funds I'm laundering to the EFF, you know the address is owned by EFF, but even if you ask them, they won't know who sent them the coins
 567 2010-11-30 14:10:47 <lfm> if you give away all your btc then ya, you will be hard to track but you dont get any profit that way so you dont gain.
 568 2010-11-30 14:11:07 <MT`AwAy> only way is to operate a bitcoin business, for example. You receive tracked funds, you ask whoever paid you where he got those funds, he tells "from mtgox" and then you subponea mtgox to see who gave mtgox those funds
 569 2010-11-30 14:11:31 <lfm> if you buy something or try to convert to other curency you become trackab;le again
 570 2010-11-30 14:12:20 <MT`AwAy> then you see it came from privacyshark, in kenya, then you subponea privacyshark by using international agreements to ask who used those coins...
 571 2010-11-30 14:12:46 <MT`AwAy> lfm: except nobody will know it's really "you" or not without tracking every previous transaction
 572 2010-11-30 14:12:50 <OneFixt> ;;bc,estimate
 573 2010-11-30 14:12:50 <gribble> 8050.69666830
 574 2010-11-30 14:13:07 <MT`AwAy> so you'll know you're being tracked before they know they are tracking you
 575 2010-11-30 14:13:12 <lfm> liek serial numbers on cash, if you throw all the money out the window of your car on the freeway you might not be trackable. if you spend it at a store or try to bank it you can be tracked
 576 2010-11-30 14:13:56 <lfm> you wont know if they supeona mtgox records
 577 2010-11-30 14:14:07 <MT`AwAy> lfm: if you spend it at a store you won't be tracked, especially if the bills are then given to another customer as change (that's why gangsters usually request small cuts)
 578 2010-11-30 14:14:17 <MT`AwAy> lfm: they'll have to subpeona you too
 579 2010-11-30 14:14:27 <MT`AwAy> they'll have to subpeona every single piece of the chain
 580 2010-11-30 14:14:40 <MT`AwAy> until they reach their initial transaction
 581 2010-11-30 14:15:01 <lfm> the store deposits theiur moeny in a bank, the bank reports the store. the store maybe have video cammeras showing who was there that day
 582 2010-11-30 14:15:06 <MT`AwAy> also since many such providers are in many different countries, it will take time
 583 2010-11-30 14:15:26 <MT`AwAy> lfm: that's assuming the store kept the bill and didn't use it to give change to another customer
 584 2010-11-30 14:15:33 <MT`AwAy> who then used it in another store in another state
 585 2010-11-30 14:15:40 <MT`AwAy> which then gave it to its bank
 586 2010-11-30 14:16:30 <lfm> crossing borders can help blurr thew trail. it cant provide perfect hiding tho either. countries do cooperate on crimes and tracking criminals, even tax evaders sometimes
 587 2010-11-30 14:17:04 <MT`AwAy> lfm: crossing borders will slow down the time required to track a given transaction
 588 2010-11-30 14:17:41 <lfm> MT`AwAy, you cant control what the store does with it tho. it might pass it on or it might bank it. its not up to you
 589 2010-11-30 14:18:01 <MT`AwAy> lfm: that's why you use bitcoins, where you can move stuff easily again and again
 590 2010-11-30 14:18:09 <MT`AwAy> and use in stores anonymously
 591 2010-11-30 14:18:31 <bencoder> Has anyone built a betting exchange yet? I guess the hard part is settlement
 592 2010-11-30 14:18:34 <MT`AwAy> (ie, create a random mtgox account via tor or whatever proxy you like, put funds, then withdraw somewhere else, repeat for 1 month or so)
 593 2010-11-30 14:18:40 <lfm> yes crossing borders  wil probably slow them down. thats like admitting it is possible again
 594 2010-11-30 14:19:03 <MT`AwAy> lfm: crossing borders with bitcoins is easy, and only takes 6 confirmations
 595 2010-11-30 14:19:31 <MT`AwAy> anyway the fact is here: bitcoins facilitates money laundering & tax evasion
 596 2010-11-30 14:19:33 <lfm> MT`AwAy, ya, you can make the chain as long as you like. it doesnt take long to follow such chain thou
 597 2010-11-30 14:19:54 <MT`AwAy> lfm: per experience it can take up to 2 years for a given country to take action
 598 2010-11-30 14:19:54 <lfm> so does cash
 599 2010-11-30 14:20:27 <MT`AwAy> (my experience was with online child pornography, the requesting country was USA, and receiving country was France)
 600 2010-11-30 14:21:46 <lfm> ya ok, it can take a long time in some cases,
 601 2010-11-30 14:22:04 <MT`AwAy> child pornography isn't exactly the kind of case you put on for later
 602 2010-11-30 14:23:32 <lfm> from what Iv heard they are burried in child porn cases tho, that may be part of the reason. also tracking internet users is still pretty new for many p[olice groups, they are still new at it and learning how
 603 2010-11-30 14:24:05 <MT`AwAy> there's child pornography, and there are sites providing openly child pornography
 604 2010-11-30 14:24:45 davux has joined
 605 2010-11-30 14:26:04 <MT`AwAy> (and tracking the guy was easy, but it took so long the guy wasn't there anymore)
 606 2010-11-30 14:26:19 <lfm> and I can see that tracking tax evaders might not be hi priority for many police either
 607 2010-11-30 14:26:29 <MT`AwAy> anyway, if tracking child pornography is new to polices worldwide, what about tracking bitcoins
 608 2010-11-30 14:27:32 <bonsaikitten> hmm, police in germany is actively not acting so they can claim they need more better powers
 609 2010-11-30 14:27:33 <lfm> Im just saying I dont think you can rely on BTC not tracking you if you really need to stay out of jail or somehing
 610 2010-11-30 14:27:51 <bonsaikitten> that's why some random people managed to do more in one afternoon than all of the police in a year
 611 2010-11-30 14:28:26 <lfm> bonsaikitten, ya, I can see that happening too
 612 2010-11-30 14:29:24 <lfm> they want millions to set up task forces and hire people too
 613 2010-11-30 14:29:51 <MT`AwAy> well, here it took almost 2 years for me to receive a police convocation because I was hosting a website containing child pornography. I provided them with logs & informations about the payment method used by whoever created the site, took them 3 more years to match the credit card to a bank account
 614 2010-11-30 14:31:12 <lfm> I don't think I would trust tham to be that slow every time and every case. If they really want you I think they can move pretty quick
 615 2010-11-30 14:31:44 <MT`AwAy> lfm: international matters can be rather slow, especially when countries such as china, kenya, etc.. are involved
 616 2010-11-30 14:32:10 <lfm> like I said about the cild porn example, they are overloaded with cases.
 617 2010-11-30 14:32:37 <MT`AwAy> also the chain is easy to break, what once mtgox says "we got the money from this guy", and "this guy" does not exists?
 618 2010-11-30 14:33:21 <lfm> well ya all mtgox may have is an email address but its just another link in a chain
 619 2010-11-30 14:33:28 <MT`AwAy> ip is a tor exit node, email was created only for the purpose of registering on mtgox
 620 2010-11-30 14:33:54 <MT`AwAy> unless you can ask whoever deposited this money on mtgox where he got it from, you won't know
 621 2010-11-30 14:34:23 <MT`AwAy> and unless you know who did it, you cannot ask the next guy/company where he got it from
 622 2010-11-30 14:34:44 <lfm> Just saying its not foolproof. there are a lot of ways to track btc too
 623 2010-11-30 14:35:27 <MT`AwAy> btc by itself is not too hard to track, what makes it hard to track are services allowing to put btc in and which then withdraws from different addresses
 624 2010-11-30 14:35:57 <MT`AwAy> anyone understanding that can provide bitcoins laundering services
 625 2010-11-30 14:36:03 <lfm> depends if they keep records or not really
 626 2010-11-30 14:36:08 <MT`AwAy> and it can be made 100% automatically
 627 2010-11-30 14:36:22 <MT`AwAy> even if mtgox keeps records, it won't help
 628 2010-11-30 14:36:40 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 629 2010-11-30 14:36:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94730 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 21 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 59 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8046.45837197
 630 2010-11-30 14:37:44 <lfm> difficulty growth  has slowed. I thot it would be up to 10k by this one
 631 2010-11-30 14:42:27 dwdollar1 has left ()
 632 2010-11-30 14:43:55 <MT`AwAy> only solution would be preemptive subpeona on every single bitcoin trader (which are the bitcoin equivalent of banks)
 633 2010-11-30 14:45:26 blablaa has joined
 634 2010-11-30 14:48:26 dwdollar1 has joined
 635 2010-11-30 15:04:33 davux has left ()
 636 2010-11-30 15:08:54 MacRohard has joined
 637 2010-11-30 15:11:04 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 638 2010-11-30 15:11:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94733 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 18 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8045.90063694
 639 2010-11-30 15:26:18 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
 640 2010-11-30 15:26:25 darrob has joined
 641 2010-11-30 15:31:04 davex__ has joined
 642 2010-11-30 15:33:58 <davex__> big selloff today, looks like.
 643 2010-11-30 15:36:39 altamic_ has joined
 644 2010-11-30 15:37:03 altamic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 645 2010-11-30 15:37:03 altamic_ is now known as altamic
 646 2010-11-30 15:41:22 <altamic> any c++ coder here?
 647 2010-11-30 15:42:29 <davex__> why?
 648 2010-11-30 15:43:04 <altamic> I am not able to solve a problem possibly related to wxString casts
 649 2010-11-30 15:43:10 <altamic> GetTextFromUserDialogBase
 650 2010-11-30 15:43:15 <altamic> http://pastie.org/1335285
 651 2010-11-30 15:43:36 <altamic> the problem prevents a build on osx
 652 2010-11-30 15:44:11 <altamic> I don't know if I need to add another constructor
 653 2010-11-30 15:45:36 <altamic> seems that the code need std::string foo="asd"; wxString bar(foo);  to work
 654 2010-11-30 15:45:44 <altamic> needs
 655 2010-11-30 15:45:58 <altamic> how to proceed?
 656 2010-11-30 15:46:16 * altamic is lacking any C++ ninja skill
 657 2010-11-30 15:49:05 <altamic> possibly I should modify the constructor
 658 2010-11-30 15:49:21 <altamic> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/blob/master/ui.h#L291
 659 2010-11-30 15:49:31 <altamic> not sure how BTW
 660 2010-11-30 15:56:07 fahadsadah has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 661 2010-11-30 15:56:32 <xelister> altamic: yeah wxString usage in bitcoind is strange
 662 2010-11-30 15:56:44 <altamic> wxString wxStrCaption(strCaption.c_str(), wxConvUTF8);
 663 2010-11-30 15:56:53 <xelister> altamic: ask #wxwidgets
 664 2010-11-30 15:58:04 <altamic> I am already there
 665 2010-11-30 15:58:34 <xelister> lol what
 666 2010-11-30 15:58:44 <xelister> polish anti-tank weapon named "FAGOT"
 667 2010-11-30 15:58:53 <xelister> good job comming up with that name... wtf
 668 2010-11-30 16:00:51 <davex__> i would either change the base class to take std::strings in its constructor, or change the derived class to take wxString
 669 2010-11-30 16:00:58 <davex__> don't know why he was inconsistent
 670 2010-11-30 16:02:04 <altamic> please capitalize He :)
 671 2010-11-30 16:04:09 <altamic> my aim is simply to pass the compiler
 672 2010-11-30 16:06:12 <davex__> or you could dynamic_cast them to wxString in that constructor on line 291
 673 2010-11-30 16:06:16 <davex__> i think
 674 2010-11-30 16:07:20 <xelister> that sounds bad
 675 2010-11-30 16:07:22 <xelister> dynamic cast
 676 2010-11-30 16:07:34 <xelister> wxwidets has howto on various conversions from/to wxString
 677 2010-11-30 16:07:38 <xelister> goole it
 678 2010-11-30 16:08:41 <davex__> yeah they probably aren't really wxStrings getting passed in.
 679 2010-11-30 16:09:01 <altamic> davex_ can you provide the code for dyn cast
 680 2010-11-30 16:09:04 <altamic> ?
 681 2010-11-30 16:09:26 <davex__> i'd say nm that, prob. won't work
 682 2010-11-30 16:11:14 <altamic> so linus is always right
 683 2010-11-30 16:12:05 Diablo-D3 has joined
 684 2010-11-30 16:27:14 <xelister> Block 1 found on Cypress at 9:42:05 AM
 685 2010-11-30 16:27:15 <xelister> Block 2 found on Cypress at 12:59:22 PM
 686 2010-11-30 16:27:17 <xelister> Block 3 found on Cypress at 2:53:04 PM
 687 2010-11-30 16:27:18 <xelister> Block 4 found on Cypress at 4:31:23 PM
 688 2010-11-30 16:27:20 <xelister> Diablo-D3: you go girl \o/
 689 2010-11-30 16:27:22 <altamic> nice
 690 2010-11-30 16:27:34 <altamic> great xelister
 691 2010-11-30 16:28:18 * xelister puts this Cypress on Hill and dances
 692 2010-11-30 16:28:24 <altamic> haha
 693 2010-11-30 16:29:04 <altamic> I've changed the ctor now I get http://pastie.org/1335659
 694 2010-11-30 16:29:36 <xelister> Diablo-D3: btw -w 64  resolved the laggy desktop (linux, sdk2.1, driver between 10.9 and 10.10 ubuntu 64bit) not it works awesomly even with -f 300 and around (getting a bit sub-optimal speed, but meh)
 695 2010-11-30 16:29:46 <xelister> *now it works
 696 2010-11-30 16:31:42 <brocktice> OVER 8000
 697 2010-11-30 16:31:46 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
 698 2010-11-30 16:31:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94751 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8078.19525792
 699 2010-11-30 16:41:32 <xelister> it's almost OVER 9000 :o
 700 2010-11-30 16:41:53 <xelister> ArtForz: can you go on a vacation and/or join foldin@home ;)
 701 2010-11-30 16:42:18 <xelister> in 0 blocks?
 702 2010-11-30 16:42:29 <nanotube> bc,diff
 703 2010-11-30 16:42:29 <xelister> oh crap, we already have 8000
 704 2010-11-30 16:42:31 <nanotube> ;;bc,diff
 705 2010-11-30 16:42:31 <gribble> 8078.19525793
 706 2010-11-30 16:42:36 <nanotube> yea, we're already there
 707 2010-11-30 16:42:37 * xelister blames ArtForz
 708 2010-11-30 16:43:44 blablaa has quit ()
 709 2010-11-30 16:44:50 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
 710 2010-11-30 16:44:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94754 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 2013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 11 hours, 52 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32312.90258509
 711 2010-11-30 16:45:06 <nanotube> haha that's quite an estimate there. :)
 712 2010-11-30 16:45:25 <nanotube> gotta wait a hundred blocks or so for it to stabilize
 713 2010-11-30 16:47:11 <MT`AwAy> xD
 714 2010-11-30 16:47:25 <MT`AwAy> if it's really going over 32k we might see some people stopping their gpu
 715 2010-11-30 16:50:21 <altamic> I am getting some help from DavidGH from #wxWidgets channel but I am short of btc to handle him
 716 2010-11-30 16:50:47 <MT`AwAy> ?
 717 2010-11-30 17:01:21 fahadsadah has joined
 718 2010-11-30 17:08:01 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 719 2010-11-30 17:08:43 altamic has joined
 720 2010-11-30 17:13:14 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
 721 2010-11-30 17:13:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94755 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 2012 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9338.95588302
 722 2010-11-30 17:13:32 <xelister> thats more like it
 723 2010-11-30 17:15:35 <brocktice> OVER 9000
 724 2010-11-30 17:18:56 <xelister> Radeon® Oil heaters. Now with free electrical blanket.
 725 2010-11-30 17:19:32 <xelister> Lost money on Mtgox? Homeless? No problem! Exchange 5970 for 2 burning cans. 50% of for your homies on next deal
 726 2010-11-30 17:20:34 <MT`AwAy> anyone tried to compute around which difficulty it'll become more expensive to produce bitcoins based on average price of kW in USA ?
 727 2010-11-30 17:20:54 <xelister> well I started
 728 2010-11-30 17:21:17 <xelister> 5770 -> 15 coins in month
 729 2010-11-30 17:21:32 <xelister> no, wait
 730 2010-11-30 17:21:33 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: It's already around even for nvidia cards
 731 2010-11-30 17:21:38 <brocktice> ati cards have a ways to go yet
 732 2010-11-30 17:21:45 <brocktice> depends on price of btcs too
 733 2010-11-30 17:21:55 <MT`AwAy> :D
 734 2010-11-30 17:22:02 <xelister> 5970 -> 40 coins/mo, at cost of 350Wh *24*30
 735 2010-11-30 17:22:05 <MT`AwAy> let's take 0.4 so we'll be somewhat future proof
 736 2010-11-30 17:22:31 <xelister> 40 coins - 250 KWh
 737 2010-11-30 17:22:36 <MT`AwAy> (no idea what the future will be like)
 738 2010-11-30 17:22:56 <xelister> *blocks
 739 2010-11-30 17:22:59 <xelister> 40 blocks = 100 USD electricity
 740 2010-11-30 17:23:08 <brocktice> at what price?
 741 2010-11-30 17:23:13 <MT`AwAy> 2000 coins
 742 2010-11-30 17:23:24 <xelister> 2000 coins = 100 USD
 743 2010-11-30 17:23:35 <xelister> minimal reasonable rate is 0.05 BTC therefore currently
 744 2010-11-30 17:24:07 <xelister> take into account you need tons of expensive hardware, time and admin/programming skills too
 745 2010-11-30 17:24:14 <xelister> and profit margin
 746 2010-11-30 17:24:36 <MT`AwAy> programming skills can be offsetted by forum/"help me I'm noob but I just bought 4000$ of hardware" skills
 747 2010-11-30 17:24:50 <xelister> MT`AwAy: to limited extend - then you use more of time
 748 2010-11-30 17:24:57 <xelister> 750-1000 USD for card, time, upgrade to PSU/mainboard etc
 749 2010-11-30 17:25:06 <MT`AwAy> :)
 750 2010-11-30 17:25:19 <xelister> 4000 coins = 900 USD (for 2 months, later diff will be too big)
 751 2010-11-30 17:25:33 <xelister> which gives 0.22
 752 2010-11-30 17:25:59 <xelister> actually.. over 2 mo diff will already rise.. so like 3000 coins..
 753 2010-11-30 17:26:01 <xelister> 0.30
 754 2010-11-30 17:26:22 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 755 2010-11-30 17:26:35 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 756 2010-11-30 17:26:41 <xelister> imho 1 BTC = 0.30 USD  based on mining costs. Perhaps 0.25 USD since some people can have access to free (already have it) hardware or parts of it and/or to 'free' electrical power..
 757 2010-11-30 17:26:44 <MT`AwAy> "diff will rise" is an assumption based on the fact more people should in theory join the race  for bitcoins
 758 2010-11-30 17:27:02 <xelister> makes sense? gives 0.25 - 0.30 USD price range, as seen on market btw
 759 2010-11-30 17:27:13 <MT`AwAy> :)
 760 2010-11-30 17:27:16 <xelister> MT`AwAy: here I assumed a moderate/small rise
 761 2010-11-30 17:27:20 sgornick has joined
 762 2010-11-30 17:27:26 <MT`AwAy> good thing, means maybe bitcoins will get more expensive with time
 763 2010-11-30 17:27:35 <xelister> on the other hand the hardware can be sold again, so you pay just the difference in price, so like 50% of hw price
 764 2010-11-30 17:27:50 <xelister> then again selling hw takes more time/skill/fucking around
 765 2010-11-30 17:27:51 <brocktice> If you amortize the hardware over a year the price can be much lower
 766 2010-11-30 17:28:06 <brocktice> normal biz practice would probably be more like 3 years unless you take a section 179 in the US or whatever it's claled
 767 2010-11-30 17:28:09 <brocktice> *called
 768 2010-11-30 17:28:10 <brocktice> so, say a year
 769 2010-11-30 17:28:34 <MT`AwAy> well, you can't really make plans on bitcoins for more than a few months for now
 770 2010-11-30 17:28:40 <xelister> yea
 771 2010-11-30 17:29:01 <MT`AwAy> unless you like gambling
 772 2010-11-30 17:33:23 altamic has joined
 773 2010-11-30 17:34:40 RazielZ has joined
 774 2010-11-30 17:44:42 <xelister> #wikileaks - lets ask them no accept btc :)
 775 2010-11-30 17:45:43 <MT`AwAy> xelister: be my guest
 776 2010-11-30 17:45:46 <MT`AwAy> I'll be watching from here
 777 2010-11-30 17:46:22 <altamic> xelister: I don't think it would be wise, now
 778 2010-11-30 17:47:16 <nanotube> <altamic> I am getting some help from DavidGH from #wxWidgets channel but I am short of btc to handle him
 779 2010-11-30 17:47:21 <nanotube> altamic: --^ what do you mean?
 780 2010-11-30 17:48:36 <xelister> altamic: wtf why not
 781 2010-11-30 17:49:01 <altamic> simply that I would like to offer some btc to him since I am grateful for his help
 782 2010-11-30 17:49:11 <altamic> but unfortunately my wallet is quite empty
 783 2010-11-30 17:49:44 <altamic> the problem is that skillful C++ coders are hard to find
 784 2010-11-30 17:49:52 <xelister> altamic: http://mtgox.com/
 785 2010-11-30 17:49:52 <altamic> they're all @ google :)
 786 2010-11-30 17:54:01 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 787 2010-11-30 18:00:07 altamic has joined
 788 2010-11-30 18:04:28 Toadyonps3 has joined
 789 2010-11-30 18:09:07 Toadyonps3 has quit (Client Quit)
 790 2010-11-30 18:10:38 <nanotube> altamic: i can sell you some btc on #bitcoin-otc if you like
 791 2010-11-30 18:12:08 <altamic> thank you nanotube
 792 2010-11-30 18:12:49 * altamic still battling with c++
 793 2010-11-30 18:13:12 * brocktice knows C++, though I'm not a great programmer
 794 2010-11-30 18:13:54 <brocktice> and many of the more sophisticated uses of C++ are well over my head
 795 2010-11-30 18:14:00 <brocktice> altamic: what are you working on?
 796 2010-11-30 18:14:28 Kiba has joined
 797 2010-11-30 18:14:29 <altamic> I am trying to make the osx build happen
 798 2010-11-30 18:14:55 <altamic> 0.3.17
 799 2010-11-30 18:15:16 <brocktice> you need c++ programming skills for that?
 800 2010-11-30 18:15:33 <altamic> there is some code to change
 801 2010-11-30 18:15:37 <brocktice> ah
 802 2010-11-30 18:15:38 <altamic> to satisfy wx
 803 2010-11-30 18:17:11 <Kiba> brocktice: did ya vote in the BMAA on my proposal?
 804 2010-11-30 18:17:19 <brocktice> Kiba: let me look, I think I did
 805 2010-11-30 18:17:39 <Kiba> hmm, we need to raise money for hosting too...
 806 2010-11-30 18:18:04 <brocktice> oh
 807 2010-11-30 18:18:07 <brocktice> well, I can host for free
 808 2010-11-30 18:18:29 <brocktice> whatI guess I don't understand it
 809 2010-11-30 18:19:44 <Kiba> you don't understand?
 810 2010-11-30 18:19:56 <Kiba> well, I want to automate the tracking of members for discount
 811 2010-11-30 18:19:57 <Diablo-D3> you know whats funny?
 812 2010-11-30 18:19:57 <brocktice> What's the bounty for?
 813 2010-11-30 18:20:12 <Kiba> brocktice: to pay a programmer to code up a site
 814 2010-11-30 18:20:34 <Diablo-D3> if you sample a 2D image, you get samples that have, effectively, two useful points
 815 2010-11-30 18:20:38 <brocktice> Kiba: I am not going to vote for it
 816 2010-11-30 18:20:40 <Kiba> I am  busy with other projects after all.. who will do it?
 817 2010-11-30 18:20:45 <brocktice> Kiba: I think it's a low priority
 818 2010-11-30 18:20:46 <Kiba> brocktice: why?
 819 2010-11-30 18:20:51 <Diablo-D3> if you sample a 3D surface, you get a triangle.
 820 2010-11-30 18:20:52 <Kiba> low priority?
 821 2010-11-30 18:21:09 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, what proposal? :o (url?)
 822 2010-11-30 18:22:52 <MT`AwAy> nevermind, found it
 823 2010-11-30 18:26:17 <xelister> altamic: #wxwidets didnt help?
 824 2010-11-30 18:26:32 <altamic> the problem is me
 825 2010-11-30 18:26:54 <xelister> instant  meme
 826 2010-11-30 18:32:10 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, I'm joining your group :p
 827 2010-11-30 18:32:15 <davex__> altamic, did you try
 828 2010-11-30 18:32:17 <davex__> const string& strValue2="") : CGetTextFromUserDialogBase(parent, wxID_ANY, wxString(strCaption.c_str()))
 829 2010-11-30 18:32:32 <Kiba> we only provide one benefit...
 830 2010-11-30 18:32:37 <Kiba> discounts from business members..
 831 2010-11-30 18:33:06 <Kiba> but it's a group in early...stage of development so..
 832 2010-11-30 18:34:25 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, I have a business
 833 2010-11-30 18:34:29 <MT`AwAy> I can provide discounts
 834 2010-11-30 18:35:18 <MT`AwAy> that counts? :p
 835 2010-11-30 18:35:44 <altamic> davex_ : http://pastie.org/1336000
 836 2010-11-30 18:36:52 <Kiba> in bitcoin?
 837 2010-11-30 18:37:01 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, yup
 838 2010-11-30 18:37:01 <davex__> altamic, different problem now?
 839 2010-11-30 18:37:03 * Kiba ponders a social soliditary benefit...
 840 2010-11-30 18:39:35 <davex__> altamic, http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/12443
 841 2010-11-30 18:40:34 <xelister> lol wha??
 842 2010-11-30 18:40:54 <xelister> apparently I told my gf to use bitcoin mining
 843 2010-11-30 18:41:01 <xelister> while I was asleep..
 844 2010-11-30 18:41:22 <brocktice> bwhahahaha
 845 2010-11-30 18:41:43 <MT`AwAy> xelister, you bitcoin too much
 846 2010-11-30 18:41:47 <xelister> yea
 847 2010-11-30 18:42:06 <xelister> <_<
 848 2010-11-30 18:42:30 <nanotube> xelister: nice :)
 849 2010-11-30 18:43:14 theymos has joined
 850 2010-11-30 18:46:32 * Kiba live, breath, eat, and smell bitcoin
 851 2010-11-30 18:47:00 <theymos> What does Bitcoin taste like?
 852 2010-11-30 18:47:23 <brocktice> theymos: solder
 853 2010-11-30 18:48:12 <Kiba> it...taste like...BACON
 854 2010-11-30 18:48:18 <dwdollar1> like an electric shock on the tongue
 855 2010-11-30 18:48:22 <Kiba> I knew it!
 856 2010-11-30 18:48:30 <Kiba> bacon is the money of the future!
 857 2010-11-30 18:48:38 <nanotube> tastes like... freedom? :)
 858 2010-11-30 18:48:52 <Kiba> and freedom taste like bacon
 859 2010-11-30 18:49:18 <Kiba> so I got an association that I found that contributed 90 BTC a month to the treasury
 860 2010-11-30 18:49:20 <Kiba> MUHAHAHAH
 861 2010-11-30 19:02:29 <gavinandresen> svn rev 193 committed: JSON methods: listtransactions, gettransaction, move, sendfrom and getbalance <account>
 862 2010-11-30 19:03:18 <nanotube> gavinandresen: oooh... so now we can send from a specific address?
 863 2010-11-30 19:03:40 <gavinandresen> From a specific account.  Coins are still selected as before from the wallet.
 864 2010-11-30 19:03:58 <nanotube> gavinandresen: but... if an account only has one address? then you send from that specific address? :)
 865 2010-11-30 19:04:16 <Kiba> why does Satoshi use SVN?
 866 2010-11-30 19:04:18 <gavinandresen> There is no "sending from an address" in bitcoin-- sends go TO an address....
 867 2010-11-30 19:05:18 <gavinandresen> (you take a bunch of coins that were sent to your wallet, all of which may have different addresses, bundle them up, then send the bundle TO address...)
 868 2010-11-30 19:05:48 <theymos> It would be possible to choose which addresses to send from among those that hold coins.
 869 2010-11-30 19:05:50 <nanotube> gavinandresen: are you sure? i mean, if i have 100 coins in address1, it should be possible to send from that specific address (if not with current software, at least in theory)
 870 2010-11-30 19:06:41 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: why does listtransactions build a huge list... and then erase it back down to size?
 871 2010-11-30 19:07:02 <gavinandresen> If you received 100 coins worth of transactions on address1, and they're still sitting in your wallet unspent, then yeah, theoretically a client could let you use those specific transactions as the input to the send
 872 2010-11-30 19:07:28 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: because wallet transactions aren't sorted by time in memory
 873 2010-11-30 19:07:51 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: and because computers are really fast these days, and "premature optimization is the root of all evil" (or something like that)
 874 2010-11-30 19:08:22 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: You might notice there is no "list all transactions for all accounts" functionality in this version of listtransactions
 875 2010-11-30 19:21:27 <jgarzik> hmmm
 876 2010-11-30 19:23:24 <Kiba> 5 months will have passed...
 877 2010-11-30 19:23:26 <Kiba> very short time
 878 2010-11-30 19:23:40 <altamic> davex__: thank you
 879 2010-11-30 19:37:39 Lyspooner has joined
 880 2010-11-30 19:38:22 <davex__> altamic, was it gcc version incompatibility?
 881 2010-11-30 19:38:37 <altamic> no idea
 882 2010-11-30 19:38:45 <altamic> still not finished the build
 883 2010-11-30 19:38:56 <altamic> anyway the compiler is llvm
 884 2010-11-30 19:51:41 <nanotube> hm, looks like blocks are coming in slow.
 885 2010-11-30 19:51:43 <nanotube> ,,bc,stats
 886 2010-11-30 19:51:45 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
 887 2010-11-30 19:51:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94767 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 2000 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7009.92144464
 888 2010-11-30 20:01:47 <Kiba> triva: What is the most requested wedding song in all of Japan?
 889 2010-11-30 20:03:25 albatross has joined
 890 2010-11-30 20:08:33 <Lyspooner> Take Me Out to the Ballgame
 891 2010-11-30 20:08:38 <andrew12> no
 892 2010-11-30 20:08:42 kabo69 has joined
 893 2010-11-30 20:09:02 <kabo69> Hi!
 894 2010-11-30 20:09:07 <andrew12> hi
 895 2010-11-30 20:09:08 <kabo69> just downloaded bitcoind
 896 2010-11-30 20:09:15 <kabo69> can't get it to start :/
 897 2010-11-30 20:09:24 <kabo69> "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbException'"
 898 2010-11-30 20:09:35 <kabo69> "what():  Db::put: Operation not permitted"
 899 2010-11-30 20:09:50 <andrew12> kabo69: have you tried rebooting?
 900 2010-11-30 20:09:58 <kabo69> using linux
 901 2010-11-30 20:10:26 <kabo69> haven't tried rebooting, using a server and don't really want to reboot it... :)
 902 2010-11-30 20:11:08 <Kiba> Most requested wedding song in Japan: Will You Marry Me?
 903 2010-11-30 20:11:10 <kabo69> tried google but this doesn't seem to happen a lot
 904 2010-11-30 20:11:19 <andrew12> usually "Operation not permitted" has something to do with the disk
 905 2010-11-30 20:11:32 <kabo69> do I need to run as root?
 906 2010-11-30 20:11:35 <andrew12> no
 907 2010-11-30 20:11:48 <kabo69> hmm... ok
 908 2010-11-30 20:11:50 <andrew12> are you able to access ~/.bitcoin/ ?
 909 2010-11-30 20:11:57 JudStephenson has left ()
 910 2010-11-30 20:12:11 <kabo69> yes
 911 2010-11-30 20:12:16 <andrew12> then i dunno
 912 2010-11-30 20:12:23 JudStephenson has joined
 913 2010-11-30 20:13:09 <kabo69> I moved a wallet from my old install on another machine to this machine
 914 2010-11-30 20:13:13 <kabo69> could that be it?
 915 2010-11-30 20:13:38 <nanotube> mm, could be... if the other machine had used a different version of bdb maybe...
 916 2010-11-30 20:13:55 <kabo69> year, probably, that was version 0.2.0
 917 2010-11-30 20:14:19 <nanotube> ah, pretty old.... but first, what is the ownership/permissions of your wallet.dat? and... did you move anything else, or /just/ the wallet.dat?
 918 2010-11-30 20:14:41 <kabo69> owned by me, 600
 919 2010-11-30 20:14:43 <kabo69> just wallet.dat
 920 2010-11-30 20:14:46 RazielZ has quit ()
 921 2010-11-30 20:15:26 <nanotube> kabo69: mm well, in that case... my suggestion would be to create a new wallet on your server... then send all the funds from your old wallet, using your old client, to an address in the new wallet.
 922 2010-11-30 20:15:33 <nanotube> kabo69: unless someone else has any better suggestions...
 923 2010-11-30 20:15:53 <kabo69> yeah, starting usin a new wallet worked :)
 924 2010-11-30 20:16:04 <nanotube> did you have any bitcoins in the old wallet?
 925 2010-11-30 20:16:11 <kabo69> like 100 BTC or so
 926 2010-11-30 20:16:26 <nanotube> ah not bad. well transfer them to an address in the new wallet.
 927 2010-11-30 20:16:57 <kabo69> ok, thanks for the advise, I'll try to figure it out :)
 928 2010-11-30 20:17:03 <theymos> Are you using the correct version of Berkeley DB?
 929 2010-11-30 20:18:12 <nanotube> theymos: if he's using precompiled binary, that shouldn't be an issue, no?
 930 2010-11-30 20:18:39 <nanotube> or is bdb dynamically linked?
 931 2010-11-30 20:18:49 <theymos> I think it's dynamically linked on Linux. Not sure, though.
 932 2010-11-30 20:23:58 <ArtForz> not in current versions
 933 2010-11-30 20:24:19 <ArtForz> dunno about really old ones
 934 2010-11-30 20:24:23 <kabo69> sorry, I can't figure this out
 935 2010-11-30 20:24:32 <kabo69> getgenerate returns false
 936 2010-11-30 20:24:49 <kabo69> so I'm trying setgenerate generate 1
 937 2010-11-30 20:24:57 <kabo69> I only want to use one prco
 938 2010-11-30 20:25:05 <theymos> setgenerate true 1
 939 2010-11-30 20:25:12 <kabo69> but I'm getting error: type mismatch
 940 2010-11-30 20:25:14 <kabo69> oh, ok
 941 2010-11-30 20:25:37 <kabo69> the docs are a little unclear... http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
 942 2010-11-30 20:26:20 <kabo69> also, accounts and adresses...
 943 2010-11-30 20:26:39 <kabo69> one account has many addresses?
 944 2010-11-30 20:26:44 <kabo69> or the other way around?
 945 2010-11-30 20:27:02 <ArtForz> yep
 946 2010-11-30 20:27:07 <theymos> One account has many addresses. Or one account can have only one address, as a sort of label.
 947 2010-11-30 20:27:23 ColonelPanic has quit (Disconnected by services)
 948 2010-11-30 20:27:35 <kabo69> ok, so I have an account the second I start bitcoin
 949 2010-11-30 20:27:38 <kabo69> i guess
 950 2010-11-30 20:27:47 <ArtForz> I think each address can be associated with one account = many addresses with the same account
 951 2010-11-30 20:27:55 ColonelPanic1 has joined
 952 2010-11-30 20:28:09 <kabo69> ok
 953 2010-11-30 20:28:29 <ArtForz> the account stuff is somewhat of a renaming of the old label features
 954 2010-11-30 20:29:55 <ArtForz> at least it was last time I checked
 955 2010-11-30 20:30:38 <kabo69> ok, so if I want to receive BTCs they should get sent to my address
 956 2010-11-30 20:30:46 <ArtForz> yep
 957 2010-11-30 20:30:58 <kabo69> is my wallet the same thing as my account?
 958 2010-11-30 20:31:20 <ArtForz> errr... no
 959 2010-11-30 20:31:32 <kabo69> is this explained somewhere in the docs, it's all very mushed up right now...
 960 2010-11-30 20:31:48 <ArtForz> well, right now the account stuff is still pretty new
 961 2010-11-30 20:32:09 <kabo69> I know there are wallets, accounts and addresses, but I can't wrap my head around how the fit together
 962 2010-11-30 20:32:44 <ArtForz> simple one-to-many I think
 963 2010-11-30 20:32:49 <ArtForz> 1+ accounts per wallet, 1+ addresses per account
 964 2010-11-30 20:32:58 <kabo69> ok
 965 2010-11-30 20:33:05 <kabo69> can I list the accounts in my wallet?
 966 2010-11-30 20:34:03 <ArtForz> not sure
 967 2010-11-30 20:34:17 <kabo69> how do I make a new account in my wallet?
 968 2010-11-30 20:35:03 <theymos> Create a new address, and specify an account: getnewaddress accountName
 969 2010-11-30 20:35:17 <ArtForz> either setaccount on one of your existing addresses or getaccountaddress I think
 970 2010-11-30 20:35:20 <kabo69> oh, ok, that sounds simple :)
 971 2010-11-30 20:35:31 <ArtForz> I am not 100% certain as I havent really used accounts yet
 972 2010-11-30 20:38:06 <andrew12> there
 973 2010-11-30 20:38:10 <andrew12> there's one wallet
 974 2010-11-30 20:38:24 <andrew12> well, one for each account
 975 2010-11-30 20:38:32 <andrew12> each account can have many addressess
 976 2010-11-30 20:39:40 <kabo69> one wallet per account, ok
 977 2010-11-30 20:39:59 <kabo69> so I've just created an account, but I still only have one wallet.dat
 978 2010-11-30 20:40:06 <andrew12> indeed
 979 2010-11-30 20:40:16 <kabo69> but if I create another account I'll have another wallet.dat?
 980 2010-11-30 20:40:20 <ArtForz> nope
 981 2010-11-30 20:40:25 <andrew12> you don't make another account
 982 2010-11-30 20:40:27 <theymos> No; there's one wallet per Bitcoin installation. Many accounts in a wallet.
 983 2010-11-30 20:40:31 <andrew12> you get another address
 984 2010-11-30 20:40:34 <kabo69> ok
 985 2010-11-30 20:40:36 <ArtForz> you only have one wallet, many accounts per wallet, many addrs per account
 986 2010-11-30 20:40:37 <andrew12> okay so i was wrong
 987 2010-11-30 20:40:38 <andrew12> lol
 988 2010-11-30 20:40:52 <kabo69> ok
 989 2010-11-30 20:43:02 <kabo69> I remember something about having to download blockchains or something like that before being able to start generating coins
 990 2010-11-30 20:43:23 <kabo69> can I see where bitcoin is in that process?
 991 2010-11-30 20:43:44 <kabo69> blocks is at 91388 right now
 992 2010-11-30 20:44:13 <ArtForz> ;;bc,stats
 993 2010-11-30 20:44:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94771 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1996 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6868.24934794
 994 2010-11-30 20:45:03 <kabo69> ok, so it should be done with downloading blocks soon
 995 2010-11-30 20:48:35 <kabo69> how long does it take for a transaction to reach the recipient?
 996 2010-11-30 20:48:58 <ArtForz> usually it shows up pretty much instantly as 0/unconfirmed
 997 2010-11-30 20:49:20 <kabo69> yeah, that's what I have in my sending bitcoin
 998 2010-11-30 20:49:35 <kabo69> when does it show up in my receiving bitcoin?
 999 2010-11-30 20:50:10 <ArtForz> if the tx makes it into the next block, the next block
1000 2010-11-30 20:51:24 <kabo69> If I double click the transaction I see 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 1 node
1001 2010-11-30 20:51:51 <kabo69> but how long until it's confirmed?
1002 2010-11-30 20:51:52 <ArtForz> 1 node? that doesnt sound like much
1003 2010-11-30 20:52:01 <kabo69> a few minutes, a couple of days?
1004 2010-11-30 20:52:06 <ArtForz> usually when the next block is found (assuming it made it to the general entwork)
1005 2010-11-30 20:52:06 acous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1006 2010-11-30 20:52:45 <ArtForz> if it doesnt, the sending node waits 1 block + 5-30 minutes before rebroadcasting it
1007 2010-11-30 20:53:19 acous has joined
1008 2010-11-30 20:53:32 <kabo69> ok, I'll just keep it running over night
1009 2010-11-30 20:54:22 <ArtForz> once the tx shows up as 1/unconfirmed on the sender (= it made it into the blockchain) the receiver should see it
1010 2010-11-30 20:55:24 <kabo69> ok, thanks for your help
1011 2010-11-30 20:55:30 * kabo69 is of to bed
1012 2010-11-30 20:55:38 <kabo69> goodnight :)
1013 2010-11-30 21:02:16 <Kiba> hmm
1014 2010-11-30 21:02:21 <Kiba> no running today...
1015 2010-11-30 21:02:23 <Kiba> heavy rain
1016 2010-11-30 21:02:31 <Kiba> and my right leg is a bit injured
1017 2010-11-30 21:04:30 skx has joined
1018 2010-11-30 21:04:55 <skx> ;;bc,calc 3008
1019 2010-11-30 21:04:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3008 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 19 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, and 36 seconds
1020 2010-11-30 21:05:17 <skx> to what do we owe this jump in difficulty?
1021 2010-11-30 21:06:25 <tcatm> Mostly more GPU miners...
1022 2010-11-30 21:10:07 <skx> damn them! ;)
1023 2010-11-30 21:10:08 <skx> thanks
1024 2010-11-30 21:12:01 skx has left ()
1025 2010-11-30 21:19:58 bill__ has joined
1026 2010-11-30 21:22:15 <Lyspooner> is there a way to call sourceforge data from inside this channel?
1027 2010-11-30 21:22:52 <Lyspooner> ...looking to see how many bitcoin clients have been downloaded
1028 2010-11-30 21:23:09 <bill__> how does one generate coins from multiple clients simultaneously? does it require simply setting the bitcoin addresses to be the same?
1029 2010-11-30 21:23:23 <bill__> i see nothing in the official/unofficial faqs about it
1030 2010-11-30 21:23:49 <nelisky> bill__: you can either use remote mining
1031 2010-11-30 21:24:07 <nelisky> or just multiple clients and then transfer coins to a central address
1032 2010-11-30 21:24:14 <Lyspooner> tcatm: everyone is quick to blame GPU mining, but the forum has had a record November in terms of posts and replies
1033 2010-11-30 21:24:16 <bill__> nelisky: thanks
1034 2010-11-30 21:24:48 <nelisky> bill__: remote miner is a new thing, but you can use DiabloD3's or momchild's versions
1035 2010-11-30 21:24:53 <nelisky> search the forum
1036 2010-11-30 21:25:01 <bill__> i'll take a look, thanks again
1037 2010-11-30 21:27:21 <ArtForz> I'd guess a large majority of difficulty increase after the post-/. boom is GPU miners
1038 2010-11-30 21:31:08 <tcatm> Lyspooner: True. I think even new users will use GPUs. Higher difficulty is good for bitcoin.
1039 2010-11-30 21:31:58 <ArtForz> GPU mining is simply WAY too efficient to pass up, unless you happen to have free power
1040 2010-11-30 21:32:29 <Lyspooner> i believe you both, i'm just trying to find data to support the claim
1041 2010-11-30 21:33:26 <Lyspooner> is there a way to count/guess the number of miners?
1042 2010-11-30 21:33:36 <ArtForz> I dont think so
1043 2010-11-30 21:35:16 <tcatm> What's the network's current hashrate?
1044 2010-11-30 21:36:13 <ArtForz> end of 6866.9 we were averaging >75Gh/s
1045 2010-11-30 21:37:16 <ArtForz> my personal GPU cluster is currently doing 8.6Gh/s
1046 2010-11-30 21:38:32 <Lyspooner> bitcoin.org is down
1047 2010-11-30 21:38:33 <tcatm> Mine's doing 2 Gh/s. 64.4 Gh/s left for other miners.
1048 2010-11-30 21:39:50 <bencoder> bitcoin site down?
1049 2010-11-30 21:39:58 <Lyspooner> yep
1050 2010-11-30 21:40:05 <ArtForz> yup
1051 2010-11-30 21:40:11 <Lyspooner> "SMF was unable to connect to the database"
1052 2010-11-30 21:41:10 <bencoder> ok
1053 2010-11-30 21:41:20 <ArtForz> 75Gh/s really isn't that much
1054 2010-11-30 21:42:13 <tcatm> We could have anything from 100 to 10000 miners on the network.
1055 2010-11-30 21:42:18 <ArtForz> its still < 150 5970s
1056 2010-11-30 21:44:05 <theymos> Is there an easy formula for determining total network hashing power?
1057 2010-11-30 21:44:52 <ArtForz> difficulty * 2**32 / 600 is a pretty good estimate for the avg netwrok hashrate over the last difficulty period ;)
1058 2010-11-30 21:45:01 <Lyspooner> tcatm: i want to see sourceforge download data vs time, vs difficulty, vs price
1059 2010-11-30 21:45:48 <Lyspooner> so ArtForz, you do 10% of bitcoin volume consistently?
1060 2010-11-30 21:45:56 <ArtForz> more or less
1061 2010-11-30 21:46:17 <Lyspooner> and it's worth it?
1062 2010-11-30 21:46:21 <ArtForz> yup
1063 2010-11-30 21:46:40 <Lyspooner> do you have a stopping difficulty in mind?
1064 2010-11-30 21:46:54 <ArtForz> not really
1065 2010-11-30 21:47:14 <Lyspooner> you're so balls deep in this thing, you might as well support the network?
1066 2010-11-30 21:47:19 <ArtForz> nope
1067 2010-11-30 21:47:35 <ArtForz> I already have the hardware, and as I have a combined power+heat unit power is pretty much free for me over the winter
1068 2010-11-30 21:47:54 <tcatm> Depending on price at about 80k power costs might be higher than profit (for people who have to pay for power).
1069 2010-11-30 21:48:50 <ArtForz> I'll probably shut down most of the miners over summer if difficulty/market prices makes it unprofitable to run em on utility power
1070 2010-11-30 21:49:06 <ArtForz> but we're still a long way away from that
1071 2010-11-30 21:49:25 <Diablo-D3> [04:47:08] <Lyspooner> you're so balls deep in this thing, you might as well support the network?
1072 2010-11-30 21:49:31 <Diablo-D3> thats only what he does to your mom
1073 2010-11-30 21:49:33 <Diablo-D3> dohohohohoh
1074 2010-11-30 21:49:57 <bill__> ouch
1075 2010-11-30 21:50:32 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEI1AUFJKw
1076 2010-11-30 21:50:35 <Diablo-D3> my brain is melting
1077 2010-11-30 21:50:48 <Lyspooner> tcatm: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/stats/timeline?dates=2009-02-01+to+2010-11-30
1078 2010-11-30 21:51:38 acous has quit (Changing host)
1079 2010-11-30 21:51:39 acous has joined
1080 2010-11-30 21:51:53 <Kiba> 4,212 downloads...
1081 2010-11-30 21:51:59 <Kiba> July 7, 12
1082 2010-11-30 21:52:12 <Kiba> The Slashdot Explosion
1083 2010-11-30 21:52:44 <tcatm> Another slashdot next year would be good.
1084 2010-11-30 21:52:53 <Kiba> Since July 14, we're pretty much in the hundred of download
1085 2010-11-30 21:53:20 <Kiba> we got a little something on November 11
1086 2010-11-30 21:53:23 <Kiba> err
1087 2010-11-30 21:53:23 <Kiba> 15
1088 2010-11-30 21:53:31 <bill__> i actually came across bitcoin today on reddit.com
1089 2010-11-30 21:53:55 <bill__> didn't make the frontpage, but it was a page back
1090 2010-11-30 21:54:04 <theymos> bill__: Link?
1091 2010-11-30 21:54:30 <bill__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ee05t/bitcoin_is_a_open_source_peertopeer_network_based/
1092 2010-11-30 21:54:34 <theymos> Thanks.
1093 2010-11-30 21:54:46 <Kiba> there had never been a day...that bitcoin didn't get a download
1094 2010-11-30 21:54:59 <Kiba> I wonder how satoshi feel about this...growth
1095 2010-11-30 21:56:13 <Kiba> slashdot can still boot up a project
1096 2010-11-30 21:57:04 <xelister> ArtForz: did you considered cooling with outside air
1097 2010-11-30 21:57:35 <tcatm> I'm using outside air for cooling.
1098 2010-11-30 21:57:40 <xelister> after discussion with you and Diablo-D3  I thought, how about, small PCV pipe like 5 cm diameter, pumping air from outside (-5 .. -15 C here) right into the PC case
1099 2010-11-30 21:57:46 <ArtForz> errr... I am using the GPUs the heat my house
1100 2010-11-30 21:57:49 <ArtForz> *to
1101 2010-11-30 21:57:49 <tcatm> (Miners placed near to open window)
1102 2010-11-30 21:57:54 <Diablo-D3> xelister: directly? fuck no
1103 2010-11-30 21:57:59 <theymos> I think Satoshi is surprised at how fast this has taken off.
1104 2010-11-30 21:58:03 <xelister> Diablo-D3: well, I live in this room
1105 2010-11-30 21:58:03 <ArtForz> using outside air would be counterproductive
1106 2010-11-30 21:58:08 <xelister> I am in this room during day
1107 2010-11-30 21:58:11 <Diablo-D3> xelister: that isnt it, outside air is moist
1108 2010-11-30 21:58:13 <xelister> PC is far from window
1109 2010-11-30 21:58:18 <Diablo-D3> it'll fuck shit over
1110 2010-11-30 21:58:25 <Diablo-D3> you have to pipe it through a filtration system first
1111 2010-11-30 21:58:33 <ArtForz> nah, moisture shouldnt be a problem
1112 2010-11-30 21:58:33 <xelister> Diablo-D3: hmm indeed... it would condensate into water wouldnt it
1113 2010-11-30 21:58:45 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: up here it would
1114 2010-11-30 21:58:47 <ArtForz> you usually dont get condensation at >70°C ...
1115 2010-11-30 21:59:00 <Diablo-D3> no, the outside air already IS moist
1116 2010-11-30 21:59:14 <Diablo-D3> it'd ruin your shit
1117 2010-11-30 21:59:22 <Diablo-D3> especially during the early morning
1118 2010-11-30 21:59:27 <Kiba> maybe satoshi sucks at English and got some English spekaing dude to write for him...
1119 2010-11-30 21:59:33 <Kiba> so he didn't talk much
1120 2010-11-30 21:59:48 <Kiba> outside of development
1121 2010-11-30 22:00:05 <Kiba> MEH
1122 2010-11-30 22:00:10 <xelister> -10 C (feels like -16.3C) Dew point -12.0 C relative humidity 83%
1123 2010-11-30 22:01:06 <tcatm> Considering how much he has written on mailing lists I'm pretty sure he's doesn't have a ghostwriter.
1124 2010-11-30 22:01:14 <xelister> haaai satoshi san!  I wanna make hot European love to you, mate change block 0 to my own tree, mate?
1125 2010-11-30 22:01:32 <theymos> I wonder how badly exchange rate would be affected if bitcoin.org went down for good.
1126 2010-11-30 22:01:52 <tcatm> Who runs bitcoin.org's server?
1127 2010-11-30 22:01:57 <theymos> Sirius-m
1128 2010-11-30 22:02:02 <ArtForz> I dont get quite get how the hell condensation would occur in a running computer?
1129 2010-11-30 22:02:17 <xelister> ArtForz: pumping outside air into the pc case?
1130 2010-11-30 22:02:17 <Lyspooner> .04 usd/btc if bitcoin.org goes down
1131 2010-11-30 22:02:34 <ArtForz> oh... ok, thats probably a bad idea
1132 2010-11-30 22:03:19 <xelister> Lyspooner: it takes 0.20 - 0.30 usd/btc usually to produce
1133 2010-11-30 22:03:54 <ArtForz> I was more thinking about a scenario ala "room actively vented to outside"
1134 2010-11-30 22:05:24 <Kiba> hmm
1135 2010-11-30 22:05:25 <Lyspooner> xelister: if bitcoin.org goes down permanently, then I target .04USD/BTC is the going exchange rate.  initially people wouldn't produce, difficulty would drop until some people produced, and
1136 2010-11-30 22:05:28 <Kiba> bitcoin.org forum seem to be down
1137 2010-11-30 22:05:57 <Kiba> we should begin decentralizing the bitcoin discussion community?
1138 2010-11-30 22:06:10 <ArtForz> as a running box is quite a bit warmer than its surroundings, it should be pretty much the last place where condensation occurs
1139 2010-11-30 22:07:28 <xelister> we could have bitcoin-mirror.org
1140 2010-11-30 22:07:40 <xelister> or bitcoin page in freenet (probably is there already)
1141 2010-11-30 22:07:45 <Kiba> so
1142 2010-11-30 22:07:54 <Kiba> I can't load the forum
1143 2010-11-30 22:07:57 <Kiba> anybody knows what's going on?
1144 2010-11-30 22:08:11 <Lyspooner> wikileaks.org looks similar
1145 2010-11-30 22:08:14 <bencoder> been down for a while
1146 2010-11-30 22:08:25 <djoot> Reddit DDoS? :)
1147 2010-11-30 22:08:25 <bencoder> yeah my first thought is it looks like a ddos
1148 2010-11-30 22:08:33 <theymos> Someone just set up a Bitcoin forum on Tor: http://44eeao3qvv2wz3vv.tor2web.com/
1149 2010-11-30 22:08:44 <bencoder> but it seems a bit unlikely
1150 2010-11-30 22:08:57 <Kiba> Reddit DDOS?
1151 2010-11-30 22:09:07 <theymos> Bitcoin.org still responds to pings. My guess is accidental misconfiguration.
1152 2010-11-30 22:09:10 <djoot> 22:54 < bill__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ee05t/bitcoin_is_a_open_source_peertopeer_network_based/
1153 2010-11-30 22:10:05 <Kiba> so Reddit decides to be interested in the project again
1154 2010-11-30 22:12:41 <djoot> hmm.. bitcoinexchange.com also down
1155 2010-11-30 22:12:53 <theymos> That's also run by Sirius-m
1156 2010-11-30 22:12:56 <bencoder> kinda feel lost doing my rounds of my forums... without bitcoin.org/smf
1157 2010-11-30 22:13:42 <Kiba> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
1158 2010-11-30 22:13:48 RHorning has joined
1159 2010-11-30 22:14:01 * xelister sign Kiba into rehab
1160 2010-11-30 22:14:03 <Kiba> on the last day of a record breaking November too
1161 2010-11-30 22:14:25 <Kiba> reeeeeeeeeeeecord breaking
1162 2010-11-30 22:14:29 <Kiba> an amazing month of growth
1163 2010-11-30 22:14:43 <bencoder> how can i get money into mtgox fast?
1164 2010-11-30 22:14:54 <xelister> Diablo-D3: mining speed felt to 300M
1165 2010-11-30 22:15:05 <theymos> bencoder: Go to #bitcoin-otc and trade for PayPal.
1166 2010-11-30 22:15:06 <Lyspooner> where can i get my fill of bruce wagner's insane enthusiasm and overuse of the ellipsis
1167 2010-11-30 22:15:13 <theymos> lol
1168 2010-11-30 22:15:25 <xelister> Diablo-D3: temperature is fine (77C). Core #0 has GPU load 97%, but core #1 constantly has load 0-30% .. wtf
1169 2010-11-30 22:15:34 <bencoder> lol Lyspooner
1170 2010-11-30 22:15:48 <theymos> He calls his poor writing "casual"...
1171 2010-11-30 22:16:47 FreeMoney has joined
1172 2010-11-30 22:18:54 <Lyspooner> mtgox is quiet.  nobody panic.
1173 2010-11-30 22:19:34 <Lyspooner> bitcoinme.com is down
1174 2010-11-30 22:20:06 <Lyspooner> ummm
1175 2010-11-30 22:20:11 <bencoder> hmm, sirius didn't pick that one up did he?
1176 2010-11-30 22:20:17 rtyjdtyjd has joined
1177 2010-11-30 22:20:18 <bencoder> bitcoinme.com is working for me
1178 2010-11-30 22:20:29 <Kiba> one theory: brucewagner is on a talkshow
1179 2010-11-30 22:20:51 <djoot> was down 10seconds ago, works now
1180 2010-11-30 22:20:55 <Lyspooner> oh, nm, bitcoinme is back up
1181 2010-11-30 22:20:56 <bencoder> oh yeah anyone remember when that is/was?
1182 2010-11-30 22:21:12 <djoot> wikileaks also works for me Lyspooner...
1183 2010-11-30 22:23:07 <Diablo-D3> xelister: something is wrong with your machine
1184 2010-11-30 22:23:14 <Diablo-D3> xelister: try turning off cpu scaling
1185 2010-11-30 22:23:16 <xelister> my GPUs lower room humidity to 20% lol
1186 2010-11-30 22:23:24 <Diablo-D3> btw, no your gpus dont
1187 2010-11-30 22:23:24 <xelister> Diablo-D3: CPU scalling? wtf
1188 2010-11-30 22:23:28 <FreeMoney> bruce is on Thursday
1189 2010-11-30 22:23:36 <Diablo-D3> humidity is a percentage of maximum saturation
1190 2010-11-30 22:23:44 <Diablo-D3> higher temps have higher saturation points
1191 2010-11-30 22:23:49 <Kiba> SO.
1192 2010-11-30 22:23:54 <xelister> Diablo-D3: normally it is 40%.  45-75% is what human generaly need
1193 2010-11-30 22:23:55 <Kiba> da forum is down
1194 2010-11-30 22:24:09 <Diablo-D3> ergo, merely turning the temp up will cause an uncalibrated humidity meter to go down
1195 2010-11-30 22:24:16 <Diablo-D3> xelister: wrong
1196 2010-11-30 22:24:22 <Diablo-D3> xelister: that is only valid for a specific temp
1197 2010-11-30 22:24:34 <RHorning> I can't get anything on bitcoin.org to work.
1198 2010-11-30 22:24:55 <Diablo-D3> xelister: 75% humidity at 85f is something like 2x the water in the air than 75% humidity at 20f
1199 2010-11-30 22:24:58 <Diablo-D3> or something like that
1200 2010-11-30 22:26:37 <Kiba> when will we get covered by wired magazine?
1201 2010-11-30 22:32:03 <djoot> Sirius_: ping
1202 2010-11-30 22:32:51 <xelister> Diablo-D3: should I  run any diagnosticks on that GPU with problems?
1203 2010-11-30 22:32:53 <tcatm> Kiba: You can place an project wonderful ad on bitcoincharts.com if you like.
1204 2010-11-30 22:34:49 <xelister> Diablo-D3: after restart of the miner all is working fune
1205 2010-11-30 22:36:09 rtyjdtyjd has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1206 2010-11-30 22:36:38 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1207 2010-11-30 22:37:40 albatross has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1208 2010-11-30 22:45:35 <Kiba> tcatm: well..once bitcoin advertising clearinghouse is available, you switch to it?
1209 2010-11-30 22:45:54 <tcatm> probably
1210 2010-11-30 22:45:58 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
1211 2010-11-30 22:46:12 <doublec> bitcoin.org down?
1212 2010-11-30 22:46:13 <tcatm> Depends on how much money I'll be making from ads.
1213 2010-11-30 22:46:36 <tcatm> doublec: yep. Since about 1 hour...
1214 2010-11-30 22:47:23 <doublec> 22 people connected to the pooled miner server I'm running. Someone must have started the client on a bunch of machines overnight.
1215 2010-11-30 22:47:37 <Diablo-D3> xelister: who knows, but its not my miner
1216 2010-11-30 22:47:41 <Diablo-D3> no one else is having that problem
1217 2010-11-30 22:47:44 <Kiba> doublec: so, you're doing distributed mining?
1218 2010-11-30 22:48:05 <doublec> Kiba, I'm running puddinpop's server so people can try it out
1219 2010-11-30 22:48:10 <Kiba> I don't think it make sense that bitcoin.org is down because of reddit?
1220 2010-11-30 22:48:42 <doublec> I wouldn't have thought the traffic from reddit would have brought it down
1221 2010-11-30 22:49:18 davout has joined
1222 2010-11-30 22:49:21 <Kiba> we are HAVING issues
1223 2010-11-30 22:53:53 bertodsera has joined
1224 2010-11-30 22:54:14 <Kiba> wakey up satoshi
1225 2010-11-30 22:54:39 <nanotube> doublec: what's that pooled miner you're talking about?
1226 2010-11-30 22:56:01 <doublec> nanotube, it's a patched server that allows remote mining clients to connect to it and work together and generating coins. rather than each miner independantly working on it they share data to ensure they're not working on the same data and wasting time.
1227 2010-11-30 22:56:23 <doublec> when the coins are generated each miner that contributed to that block gets a percentage of the coins based on their contribution
1228 2010-11-30 22:56:45 <Kiba> in other words, incentiviizng the masses to contribute mining power
1229 2010-11-30 22:56:46 <doublec> this way low khash client can get a small number of coins in a reasonable time rather than 50 coins almost never
1230 2010-11-30 22:56:49 <doublec> yes
1231 2010-11-30 22:57:14 <nanotube> doublec: how does it make sure that the clients are actually mining, rather than just sitting?
1232 2010-11-30 22:57:23 <doublec> but it really requires two things that it currently doesn't have. 1) A contributer using a GPU and 2) a GPU based remote mining client
1233 2010-11-30 22:57:30 <tcatm> doublec: What's needed to participate?
1234 2010-11-30 22:57:40 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1235 2010-11-30 22:57:57 <doublec> tcatm, just running the remote mining client. You pass it the IP address of the server and a bitcoin address to receive any coins generated
1236 2010-11-30 22:58:08 <doublec> there's a windows binary in the forum thread and source to build a linux one
1237 2010-11-30 22:58:44 <tcatm> forum is down...
1238 2010-11-30 22:58:54 <doublec> nanotube, there's discussion in the forum thread about how it tries to avoid clients from cheating - but yeah the forum is down
1239 2010-11-30 22:59:04 <nanotube> heh yea...
1240 2010-11-30 22:59:10 <nanotube> hope it'll be back up soon.
1241 2010-11-30 22:59:18 <doublec> nanotube, It is probably possible to cheat but part of running the server is to find out what are thebest approaches to do this sort of thing
1242 2010-11-30 22:59:28 <tcatm> Where's the source? Github?
1243 2010-11-30 22:59:31 <doublec> tcatm, I can put the binary and source somewhere
1244 2010-11-30 23:00:01 <nanotube> for the future, we really should set up backup hosts for the forums, have a backup meeting place on irc, etc.
1245 2010-11-30 23:00:09 <tcatm> Would probably be good use for my miners CPUs.
1246 2010-11-30 23:00:41 <tcatm> What about a mailing list?
1247 2010-11-30 23:01:08 <nanotube> ah, that too. could set one up right on sf.net
1248 2010-11-30 23:01:35 <doublec> tcatm, http://cd.pn/bitcoin-remote-20101127-src.zip
1249 2010-11-30 23:01:43 bencoder is now known as bencoder_
1250 2010-11-30 23:01:48 <doublec> tcatm, and http://cd.pn/bitcoin-remote-20101127-win32bin.zip
1251 2010-11-30 23:01:53 <theymos> nanotube: The obvious backup IRC channel is #bitcoin-dev on irc.lfnet.org.
1252 2010-11-30 23:02:42 <doublec> it takes some tweaking to build
1253 2010-11-30 23:02:52 bencoder_ is now known as bencoder
1254 2010-11-30 23:02:53 <doublec> at least, it did for me
1255 2010-11-30 23:02:53 <nanotube> theymos: ah yea true
1256 2010-11-30 23:03:08 <doublec> but I managed to get both linux and windows remote miners to build ok
1257 2010-11-30 23:04:14 <tcatm> How do I build it?
1258 2010-11-30 23:04:17 FreeMoney has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1259 2010-11-30 23:04:20 <doublec> what OS are you on?
1260 2010-11-30 23:04:29 <tcatm> linux
1261 2010-11-30 23:04:33 <doublec> you need cmake
1262 2010-11-30 23:05:06 <nanotube> nothing apt-get install cmake can't fix. :)
1263 2010-11-30 23:05:08 <tcatm> Confusing. I was looking for a remoteminer target in makefile.unix
1264 2010-11-30 23:05:24 <tcatm> apt-get install runs painfully slow on nfsroot :)
1265 2010-11-30 23:05:49 <doublec> You need to edit cmake-bitcoinr/CMakeLists.txt and change all instances of 'bitcoind' to 'bitcoinr'
1266 2010-11-30 23:06:15 <doublec> also edit CMakeLists.txt in the root of the archive and disable the options you don't want to build
1267 2010-11-30 23:06:37 bertodsera has joined
1268 2010-11-30 23:06:46 <doublec> if you just want the remote miner, change to OFF for all but 'Build Remote Miner'
1269 2010-11-30 23:06:48 <nanotube> doublec: ... why isn't source 'ready to build' ? seems strange to release source where you have to manually grep out stuff before building.
1270 2010-11-30 23:06:51 brucewagner has joined
1271 2010-11-30 23:06:52 <brucewagner> hi all
1272 2010-11-30 23:06:57 <nanotube> brucewagner: o/
1273 2010-11-30 23:07:05 <brucewagner> Is the Forum down now?
1274 2010-11-30 23:07:12 <nanotube> seems like it.
1275 2010-11-30 23:07:15 <nanotube> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
1276 2010-11-30 23:07:19 <JudStephenson> it is for me
1277 2010-11-30 23:07:20 <gribble> It's not just you!
1278 2010-11-30 23:07:23 <doublec> tcatm, also on line 61 or so of that file, delete the three lines that give the error "Nothing to build"
1279 2010-11-30 23:07:24 <nanotube> :)
1280 2010-11-30 23:07:30 <doublec> nanotube, I agree! painful.
1281 2010-11-30 23:07:40 <brucewagner> It always scares me when it's down. I think the worst. LOL
1282 2010-11-30 23:07:43 <doublec> nanotube, or at least host it on github or something so people can fork and fix
1283 2010-11-30 23:08:08 <nanotube> doublec: wanna do that? since you seem to know what needs to be done to get it working?
1284 2010-11-30 23:08:18 <nanotube> :)
1285 2010-11-30 23:08:19 <brucewagner> By the way, we just bought 8 tickets! Fly from NYC to Barcelona $260 RoundTrip!!! http://aa.com
1286 2010-11-30 23:08:28 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1287 2010-11-30 23:08:34 <doublec> nanotube, I don't want to offend puddinpop othewise I would. I'll mention it on the thread when the forums come back up.
1288 2010-11-30 23:08:35 <tcatm> doublec: You should make a patch to the CPU demonstration miner to support. It's way easier to build.
1289 2010-11-30 23:08:47 <doublec> tcatm, yes I'd like to do that
1290 2010-11-30 23:08:52 <JudStephenson> brucewagner, dang that is cheap
1291 2010-11-30 23:08:57 <nanotube> tcatm: ah yea, that'd be great, too.
1292 2010-11-30 23:09:02 <doublec> tcatm, I want to modify it to work with opencl too
1293 2010-11-30 23:09:12 <nanotube> doublec: in foss, there's no offense if you set up a repo with some fixes. :)
1294 2010-11-30 23:09:16 <doublec> I don't have a gpu but I can test it with intel's x86 based opencl sdk
1295 2010-11-30 23:09:34 <tcatm> I'm planning to port my OpenCL (which is already written in C) once I have some sparetime.
1296 2010-11-30 23:09:46 <doublec> I'm interested in how the x86 opencl sdk compares to hand written sse
1297 2010-11-30 23:09:55 <doublec> tcatm, oh nice - I'll wait for that :)
1298 2010-11-30 23:10:43 genjix has joined
1299 2010-11-30 23:10:49 <genjix> bitcoins fell
1300 2010-11-30 23:11:11 <tcatm> Actually just calling man FindNonce() instead of ScanHash() should work... :)
1301 2010-11-30 23:11:14 <tcatm> s/man/my/
1302 2010-11-30 23:13:06 <brucewagner> Have you guys seen http://bitcoincard.com yet?
1303 2010-11-30 23:13:41 <doublec> listing their phone number on the web - brave
1304 2010-11-30 23:14:06 <brucewagner> yep
1305 2010-11-30 23:14:20 <nanotube> brucewagner: btw, bitcoinme.com is down
1306 2010-11-30 23:14:26 <brucewagner> taking credit cards online for bitcoin <--- even more brave
1307 2010-11-30 23:14:43 <doublec> yeah. that road is littered with the carcass of fraud victims
1308 2010-11-30 23:15:02 <brucewagner> It is up for me. http://www.bitcoinme.com   :)
1309 2010-11-30 23:15:17 <nanotube> doublec: bitcoingateway does extensive manual verification, with phonecalls and everything. so hopefully that'll prevent fraud.
1310 2010-11-30 23:15:25 <doublec> ;;isitdown bitcoinme.com
1311 2010-11-30 23:15:28 <gribble> It's just you.
1312 2010-11-30 23:15:32 <nanotube> brucewagner: it's been up and down for ... many of us here
1313 2010-11-30 23:15:47 <brucewagner> which site? http://www.bitcoinme.com has been up and down?
1314 2010-11-30 23:15:57 <doublec> nanotube, ah right. good idea.
1315 2010-11-30 23:16:03 <nanotube> brucewagner: yes
1316 2010-11-30 23:16:09 <nanotube> brucewagner: fails to connect for me right now.
1317 2010-11-30 23:16:19 daveparrish has quit (Quit: leaving)
1318 2010-11-30 23:16:20 <nanotube> ;;isitdown bitcoinme.com
1319 2010-11-30 23:16:21 <gribble> It's just you.
1320 2010-11-30 23:16:22 <brucewagner> must be our hosting company. sometimes they do maintenance and upgrades
1321 2010-11-30 23:16:38 <nanotube> hm... that claims it's just me... but i can't connect. and everything else is up.
1322 2010-11-30 23:16:51 <brucewagner> If you refresh, does it come right back?
1323 2010-11-30 23:17:03 <brucewagner> check spelling    ;)
1324 2010-11-30 23:17:05 <doublec> it works for me
1325 2010-11-30 23:17:39 <theymos> I think bitcoin.org's problem is some network issue. Possibly something affecting a whole ISP. Evidence: when trying to connect, it sends two ACKs within microseconds of each other, suggesting that it took a long time for the first one to reach me.
1326 2010-11-30 23:17:45 <nanotube> brucewagner: still down for me.
1327 2010-11-30 23:18:11 <brucewagner> click this:  http://www.bitcoinme.com
1328 2010-11-30 23:18:40 <nanotube> brucewagner: i did :) but fine, i'll click it again. :)
1329 2010-11-30 23:18:50 <brucewagner> :)
1330 2010-11-30 23:18:58 <Kiba>  brucewagner: so how you're preventing fraud?
1331 2010-11-30 23:19:01 <nanotube> brucewagner: connecting to .....
1332 2010-11-30 23:19:06 <Kiba> did ya know what happen to the last guy who did this?
1333 2010-11-30 23:19:17 <nanotube> Kiba: brucewagner is not the one who's doing it.
1334 2010-11-30 23:19:33 <brucewagner> fraud? me? I do cash face-to-face ~or~ you mail cash first  <---no fraud there  ;)
1335 2010-11-30 23:19:55 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1336 2010-11-30 23:19:57 <nanotube> brucewagner: The connection has timed out The server at www.bitcoinme.com is taking too long to respond.
1337 2010-11-30 23:20:16 <nanotube> well, maybe it's comcast...
1338 2010-11-30 23:20:25 <Kiba> is bitcoin.org site up?
1339 2010-11-30 23:20:27 <brucewagner> nanotube: are you on the north pole?   :)
1340 2010-11-30 23:20:36 <nanotube> cuz it's up for you and double and isitdown...
1341 2010-11-30 23:20:48 <nanotube> brucewagner: haha comcast doesn't have service on the north pole :P
1342 2010-11-30 23:20:55 <tcatm> doublec: can't get it to compile..
1343 2010-11-30 23:21:01 <brucewagner> No.  http://bitcoin.org is down for me.
1344 2010-11-30 23:21:05 <doublec> tcatm, what's the error?
1345 2010-11-30 23:21:09 sgornick has joined
1346 2010-11-30 23:21:25 <tcatm> Missing header files even though they exists.
1347 2010-11-30 23:21:25 <nanotube> brucewagner: bitcoin.org is down for everyone. :) i was talking about bitcoinme.
1348 2010-11-30 23:21:29 <tcatm> I'll try the win32 binary
1349 2010-11-30 23:21:45 <doublec> what headers?
1350 2010-11-30 23:21:55 <Kiba> it is annoying when sites are down
1351 2010-11-30 23:22:18 <brucewagner> Bitcoin.org is hosted where?
1352 2010-11-30 23:22:22 <doublec> tcatm, to test: remoteminer -server 69.164.214.82 -address a_bitcoin_address_to_get_money
1353 2010-11-30 23:22:23 <genjix> yep down for me too
1354 2010-11-30 23:22:26 <tcatm> doublec: standard stuff like printf() and memset()
1355 2010-11-30 23:22:31 <doublec> weird
1356 2010-11-30 23:22:43 <genjix> damn... anyone have a link for bitcoin sites?
1357 2010-11-30 23:22:45 <doublec> why is building stuff so hard
1358 2010-11-30 23:22:47 bertodsera has joined
1359 2010-11-30 23:22:48 <genjix> i want to spread the word
1360 2010-11-30 23:22:57 <nanotube> genjix: which bitcoin sites?
1361 2010-11-30 23:23:10 <doublec> It was hard enough finding a working cmake on windows for me to get it to build
1362 2010-11-30 23:23:13 <genjix> like that list of bitcoin services and stuff people can do with bitcoins
1363 2010-11-30 23:23:15 <brucewagner> genjix:  see http://bitcoinme.com
1364 2010-11-30 23:23:27 <tcatm> doublec: Does remote mining use JSON-RPC?
1365 2010-11-30 23:23:28 <nanotube> genjix: that's bitcoin.org/trade ... but bitcoin.org is down.
1366 2010-11-30 23:23:31 <genjix> down for me
1367 2010-11-30 23:23:43 <genjix> ok now it works :p
1368 2010-11-30 23:23:45 <genjix> ok thanks nanotube
1369 2010-11-30 23:23:50 <doublec> genjix, my post has some: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2010/10/10/a-short-introduction-to-bitcoin.html
1370 2010-11-30 23:23:52 <Kiba> the Downism cult have striked once again
1371 2010-11-30 23:23:59 <genjix> aha great doublec
1372 2010-11-30 23:24:04 <doublec> tcatm, yes
1373 2010-11-30 23:24:22 <Kiba> The Upism police department is investigating this incident
1374 2010-11-30 23:24:24 <genjix> bitcoinme is great
1375 2010-11-30 23:24:26 <tcatm> So writing a custom client should be easy.
1376 2010-11-30 23:24:35 <doublec> yep
1377 2010-11-30 23:24:40 <doublec> the actual remote miner is pretty simple
1378 2010-11-30 23:24:48 <brucewagner> Genjix: Thanks. :)
1379 2010-11-30 23:24:55 <doublec> but obfuscated by the wonderful C++-isms
1380 2010-11-30 23:25:01 <genjix> it looks very pro :)
1381 2010-11-30 23:25:15 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1382 2010-11-30 23:25:28 <brucewagner> I'm like a pro....  I'm always available, but never "free"...  ;)
1383 2010-11-30 23:26:29 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1384 2010-11-30 23:28:01 <genjix> ok i put out my share of bitcoin propaganda
1385 2010-11-30 23:28:03 bencoder has quit (Changing host)
1386 2010-11-30 23:28:03 bencoder has joined
1387 2010-11-30 23:28:19 <brucewagner> Do we need a mirror / redundant site / backup site... for http://Bitcoin.org in case its domain ever gets censored...???
1388 2010-11-30 23:28:56 <nanotube> brucewagner: probably can't hurt. should be some non-us-controlled country tld, probably, for that extra bit of diversification.
1389 2010-11-30 23:29:11 <Kiba> bittorrent DNS
1390 2010-11-30 23:29:14 <Kiba> bitcoin.p2p
1391 2010-11-30 23:29:15 <tcatm> Should be easy to setup once needed.
1392 2010-11-30 23:29:21 <JudStephenson> read that on HN kiba?
1393 2010-11-30 23:29:33 <Kiba> yes
1394 2010-11-30 23:29:40 <Kiba> I am very jealous that we didn't get there first
1395 2010-11-30 23:30:02 <brucewagner> what's HN ?>
1396 2010-11-30 23:30:10 <JudStephenson> haha, I saw that on the front page and thought it would be too much of a coincidence
1397 2010-11-30 23:30:11 * nanotube also wants to know
1398 2010-11-30 23:30:18 <brucewagner> yeah....  domain.p2p is an awesome tld
1399 2010-11-30 23:30:19 <JudStephenson> http://news.ycombinator.com
1400 2010-11-30 23:30:21 <Kiba> Hacker News
1401 2010-11-30 23:30:45 <Kiba> so now....
1402 2010-11-30 23:30:46 <genjix> btw julian assange of wikileaks is libertarian (suprise, suprise)
1403 2010-11-30 23:31:02 <genjix> saw it in an interview with him
1404 2010-11-30 23:31:05 <brucewagner> Can we register  bitcoin.p2p   ??
1405 2010-11-30 23:31:17 <Kiba> I don't know
1406 2010-11-30 23:31:24 <JudStephenson> genjix, I like him even more now
1407 2010-11-30 23:31:27 <nanotube> i don't think .p2p tld exists
1408 2010-11-30 23:31:37 <nanotube> (yet) :)
1409 2010-11-30 23:31:42 <genjix> i cant like him any more than i already do :p
1410 2010-11-30 23:31:49 bertodsera has joined
1411 2010-11-30 23:31:56 <brucewagner> We are targeting Julian Assange / WikiLeaks on our http://BitcoinPromote.com page
1412 2010-11-30 23:31:59 <nanotube> genjix: yea, maxing out that scale eh :)
1413 2010-11-30 23:32:00 <genjix> hero to the world. hacker. fighting the big man.
1414 2010-11-30 23:32:20 <genjix> mathematician too
1415 2010-11-30 23:32:40 <JudStephenson> I hate the Wikileaks hype cycle, but I love that he's sticking it to the US gov
1416 2010-11-30 23:33:10 <Kiba> ohoh god. when will it stop?
1417 2010-11-30 23:33:38 <genjix> they need the hype
1418 2010-11-30 23:34:39 <JudStephenson> understandable, I'm actually interested in their supposed bank scandal release
1419 2010-11-30 23:34:59 <genjix> yep
1420 2010-11-30 23:36:01 <genjix> http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2010/11/29/an-interview-with-wikileaks-julian-assange/5/
1421 2010-11-30 23:36:09 <genjix> julian assange on business and the open market
1422 2010-11-30 23:36:12 <Kiba> bitcoin is down!
1423 2010-11-30 23:36:40 brucewagner has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1424 2010-11-30 23:36:48 <genjix> Kiba: huh?
1425 2010-11-30 23:36:57 <genjix> bitcoin.org or bitcoin?
1426 2010-11-30 23:37:10 <genjix> cos bitcoin itself has connections for me
1427 2010-11-30 23:37:21 <nanotube> genjix: i'm pretty sure he means .org
1428 2010-11-30 23:37:28 <genjix> k
1429 2010-11-30 23:37:31 <theymos> That's the great thing about P2P -- it doesn't matter if bitcoin.org goes down.
1430 2010-11-30 23:37:47 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1431 2010-11-30 23:38:04 <Kiba> but the forum is not P2P, theymos
1432 2010-11-30 23:38:09 <Kiba> we should do something about it.
1433 2010-11-30 23:38:40 <Kiba> I hate things being down
1434 2010-11-30 23:38:54 <doublec> move discussions to the bitcon FMS board on freenet
1435 2010-11-30 23:39:03 <genjix> yep do that
1436 2010-11-30 23:39:04 <Kiba> what is FMS?
1437 2010-11-30 23:39:15 <Kiba> doublec: but don't you need to have freenet installed?
1438 2010-11-30 23:39:17 <genjix> you know freenet?
1439 2010-11-30 23:39:18 bertodsera has joined
1440 2010-11-30 23:39:31 <doublec> Kiba, yes
1441 2010-11-30 23:39:50 <doublec> Kiba, FMS is discussion board software where the posts are hosted on freenet
1442 2010-11-30 23:39:50 <Kiba> that's a signfigant barrier of entry in my opinion
1443 2010-11-30 23:40:04 <doublec> no more so than needing bitcoin installed to use bitcoin
1444 2010-11-30 23:40:21 <doublec> but yeah it is a barrier for 'casual users' to read about bitcoin
1445 2010-11-30 23:40:21 <Kiba> installing software is signfigant!
1446 2010-11-30 23:40:22 <JudStephenson> THe people who would install freenet are the one's in the IRC
1447 2010-11-30 23:40:27 <genjix> id rather use freenet than the web
1448 2010-11-30 23:40:48 <genjix> casual users can use the wiki
1449 2010-11-30 23:40:52 <bencoder> you don't have to use software with bitcoin, you can just trust someone else
1450 2010-11-30 23:41:05 <doublec> The freenet forums work pretty well
1451 2010-11-30 23:41:27 <genjix> whats the bitcoin forum on fms? im going to look for it
1452 2010-11-30 23:41:34 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1453 2010-11-30 23:41:53 <bencoder> i don't think freenet would work so well on my current connection, stuck on 3g dongle for about another week... tends to crap out if i get too many connections
1454 2010-11-30 23:42:00 <xelister> Diablo-D3: is it possible to reset GPUs or opencl or something to clear the locking up bug quickly?
1455 2010-11-30 23:42:29 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I could restart the program, but the detecting local work size phase seems to take around 5 (x2) seconds to execute - btw, why so long? Can this step be ommited if I know the proper -w ?
1456 2010-11-30 23:42:41 <xelister> bencoder: freenet is usable on 3g
1457 2010-11-30 23:42:50 <xelister> bencoder: not full speed but still. -> #freenet
1458 2010-11-30 23:42:52 bertodsera has joined
1459 2010-11-30 23:43:27 <doublec> genjix, it's called 'bitcoin'
1460 2010-11-30 23:43:31 <genjix> kk
1461 2010-11-30 23:43:39 <bencoder> hah last i used freenet, "full speed" was bad enough :P but yeah, i'll check it out
1462 2010-11-30 23:44:04 <genjix> bencoder: it's a lot faster now than before
1463 2010-11-30 23:44:06 <doublec> bencoder, I run it on a vps and connect to it via an ssh tunnel
1464 2010-11-30 23:44:15 <bencoder> doublec: ooh
1465 2010-11-30 23:44:25 <bencoder> doublec: good idea
1466 2010-11-30 23:44:30 <doublec> that way I keep it up 24x7 and don't need to worry about bandwidth
1467 2010-11-30 23:45:02 <genjix> does it really matter though keeping it up 24x7 all the time?
1468 2010-11-30 23:45:02 <bencoder> yeah
1469 2010-11-30 23:45:06 <nanotube> doublec: oooh. i should do that. :)
1470 2010-11-30 23:45:11 <genjix> afaik you only need a few hours really
1471 2010-11-30 23:45:31 brucewagner has joined
1472 2010-11-30 23:45:31 <doublec> genjix, it helps for the health of the network
1473 2010-11-30 23:45:39 <genjix> true
1474 2010-11-30 23:46:07 <bencoder> i pay for a bunch of under-utilised vps's so i'll set it up on one
1475 2010-11-30 23:46:41 <xelister> bencoder: yey
1476 2010-11-30 23:46:51 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1477 2010-11-30 23:48:09 bertodsera has joined
1478 2010-11-30 23:49:50 DELTA9 has quit (Quit: leaving)
1479 2010-11-30 23:50:13 <doublec> a darknet of bitcoin users would be possible to - where known bitcoiners are connected directly and not to the opennet
1480 2010-11-30 23:50:42 <bencoder> not very useful if bitcoin.org is dead though
1481 2010-11-30 23:51:03 <bencoder> for new users, i mean
1482 2010-11-30 23:51:32 <doublec> yeah. I meant as a 'government is shutting bitcoin down' measure
1483 2010-11-30 23:51:53 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1484 2010-11-30 23:52:22 [Noodles] has joined
1485 2010-11-30 23:52:38 <Kiba> well, they can chase a few folks down
1486 2010-11-30 23:52:42 <Kiba> like brucewagner and me
1487 2010-11-30 23:53:25 <brucewagner> me??
1488 2010-11-30 23:53:34 <brucewagner> I AM ANONYMOUS
1489 2010-11-30 23:53:40 <brucewagner> I am everyone, and I am no one.
1490 2010-11-30 23:54:06 <Kiba> you have your supporters, presumbly
1491 2010-11-30 23:54:19 <Kiba> but I am me, with little friends and allies
1492 2010-11-30 23:54:28 <brucewagner> You don't think Bruce is my real name, do you?  My real name is very dorky.
1493 2010-11-30 23:54:46 <brucewagner> ;)
1494 2010-11-30 23:54:57 * Kiba is not very famous
1495 2010-11-30 23:55:10 <brucewagner> There is only One Kiba
1496 2010-11-30 23:55:21 <theymos> Bitcoin requires a latency of less than a few seconds between generators, and messages propagate poorly on the Bitcoin network when it takes more than a few hops (because any node that has already received a message won't relay it). So I don't think a darknet version of Bitcoin would work (for generators, at least).
1497 2010-11-30 23:57:06 <tcatm> When I measured network latency a few days ago it was about 120 seconds on average.
1498 2010-11-30 23:57:13 bertodsera has joined
1499 2010-11-30 23:57:31 <theymos> How did you measure that?
1500 2010-11-30 23:57:47 <doublec> theymos, I meant as a means to host files, updates, etc
1501 2010-11-30 23:57:57 <tcatm> Connected to ~ 600 nodes and watched TXs and Blocks being broadcasted from those nodes.
1502 2010-11-30 23:58:17 <doublec> I imagine actually running bitcoin on freenet would be fairly slow
1503 2010-11-30 23:59:15 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)