1 2010-12-01 00:00:02 <theymos> 120 seconds is too high. I don't believe it. Many more blocks would be lost than actually are.
2 2010-12-01 00:01:52 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/tracker.py and hosts
3 2010-12-01 00:02:33 <tcatm> Will output TX, timestamp and IP.
4 2010-12-01 00:03:41 <theymos> Did you do that testing while spamming was going on?
5 2010-12-01 00:04:06 <tcatm> Both. 120 seconds was measured without.
6 2010-12-01 00:04:16 <tcatm> While spamming it was about 300 seconds.
7 2010-12-01 00:05:30 <brucewagner> I am working on completing http://BitcoinShop.com as we speak... :)
8 2010-12-01 00:08:23 <tcatm> brucewagner: bitcoincharts.com is missing from bitcoinme ;)
9 2010-12-01 00:09:01 <theymos> tcatm: Did you try looking at only blocks, without transactions? Maybe Bitcoin delays transaction relays. I know that it has some code to do that, but I thought it was disabled.
10 2010-12-01 00:10:20 <tcatm> theymos: Nope, I might try that once I have a internet connection that allows for more than 600 TCP connections.
11 2010-12-01 00:12:04 <tcatm> TXs timing didn't look like intentional delays, though. It was very evenly spaced just like I'd expect those TXs to spread.
12 2010-12-01 00:14:25 <brucewagner> LOL I just bought some "amateur" pics from http://www.bitcoindirectory.com/adult/index.php LOL so funny... Consider it a $0.50 donation... via Bitcoins :)
13 2010-12-01 00:15:08 <brucewagner> tcatm: Lemme fix that now...
14 2010-12-01 00:15:38 <theymos> Blocks can't spread that slowly. If the average latency for a block was 100 seconds, tons of blocks would be orphaned (1 in 6?), but this is far from the truth.
15 2010-12-01 00:17:06 <theymos> And every time I've sent or received a transaction, it has been nearly immediate. I think something is wrong with your data.
16 2010-12-01 00:17:36 bertodsera has joined
17 2010-12-01 00:17:36 <tcatm> Maybe I was connected to a few nodes with really bad latency.
18 2010-12-01 00:18:10 grondilu has joined
19 2010-12-01 00:18:17 <Diablo-D3> xelister: there is no easy way to do what you want
20 2010-12-01 00:18:18 <tcatm> Sometime when I send transactions they don't even make it into one of the next few blocks (even with 8 connections).
21 2010-12-01 00:18:26 <grondilu> Hi. Is the website down or something ??
22 2010-12-01 00:18:30 <Diablo-D3> xelister: and btw, its not detecting that takes time... thats building the kernel
23 2010-12-01 00:18:45 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I just dont print the rest of the line until I know the size
24 2010-12-01 00:19:46 <doublec> grondilu, yes it's down
25 2010-12-01 00:19:48 <genjix> grondilu: jes
26 2010-12-01 00:20:04 <genjix> sed bitcoin mem estas bona
27 2010-12-01 00:21:11 <genjix> tamen vi eble volas provi la forumon de bitcoin per Freenet kaj FMS
28 2010-12-01 00:21:40 <Kiba> is the site up yet?
29 2010-12-01 00:21:43 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
30 2010-12-01 00:22:13 <grondilu> genjix: Cxu vi parolas esperante ecx cxi tie ;) ?
31 2010-12-01 00:22:42 delta9 has joined
32 2010-12-01 00:22:45 <genjix> se mi povas uzi espernaton, mi preferas Äin ;)
33 2010-12-01 00:22:55 <grondilu> komprenele ;)
34 2010-12-01 00:23:04 <grondilu> -ebl
35 2010-12-01 00:23:26 <genjix> mi pensas pri Äi kiel mia naskiÄita lingvo
36 2010-12-01 00:23:58 <nanotube> heh, your esperanto is /just/ beyond the edge of comprehension for me. :)
37 2010-12-01 00:24:21 <genjix> only just?
38 2010-12-01 00:24:35 bertodsera has joined
39 2010-12-01 00:24:39 <genjix> so you speak a bit or you're just guessing?
40 2010-12-01 00:24:42 <nanotube> well, i understand quite a few words... just not enough to put the complete meaning together.
41 2010-12-01 00:24:53 <genjix> aha cool
42 2010-12-01 00:24:57 <nanotube> genjix: just guessing. based on my knowledge of a few other languages :)
43 2010-12-01 00:25:50 <grondilu> nanotube: you can't guess words such as cxi cxe ecx tiu tia etc... And they are basic bricks in esperanto.
44 2010-12-01 00:25:55 <brucewagner> Yes. Bitcoin.org is still down.
45 2010-12-01 00:26:04 <nanotube> grondilu: yes, exactly. :)
46 2010-12-01 00:26:22 <genjix> grondilu: skribaĵo de bitcoin esperante http://eo.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=7710
47 2010-12-01 00:26:26 <brucewagner> There was a major blackout in downtown Tokyo, where it is hosted at Satoshi's apartment.
48 2010-12-01 00:26:35 <genjix> mi proponas Äin
49 2010-12-01 00:26:36 <grondilu> do you know them ? If you do, you'll understand esperanto even better.
50 2010-12-01 00:26:48 <grondilu> genjix: dankon
51 2010-12-01 00:26:51 <doublec> how does google translate have latin as an option but not esperanto
52 2010-12-01 00:26:56 <nanotube> grondilu: no... but i'm planning on doing some reading :)
53 2010-12-01 00:27:01 <genjix> no idea. weird huh
54 2010-12-01 00:27:07 <nanotube> doublec: seniority? :D
55 2010-12-01 00:27:12 <doublec> haha, good point
56 2010-12-01 00:27:24 <grondilu> nanotube: you want a crash course here ?
57 2010-12-01 00:27:37 <genjix> nanotube: do you want ftp to download books for learning?
58 2010-12-01 00:27:45 <genjix> Teach Yurself Esperanto & others
59 2010-12-01 00:27:47 <nanotube> grondilu: genjix: yes, and yes :D
60 2010-12-01 00:27:53 <doublec> I guess there's a larger amount of latin<->english documents for googke translate to learn from
61 2010-12-01 00:28:03 <genjix> kk
62 2010-12-01 00:28:05 <tcatm> Anyone got a rootserver I could use to run my tracker on to measure blocks spreading?
63 2010-12-01 00:28:11 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
64 2010-12-01 00:28:20 <nanotube> tcatm: rootserver?
65 2010-12-01 00:28:44 <doublec> genjix, any good sources for books written in esperanto?
66 2010-12-01 00:29:01 <genjix> im just finding this ftp server with tons of stuff
67 2010-12-01 00:29:09 <tcatm> I just killed my vserver with it :)
68 2010-12-01 00:29:45 <genjix> bogobogo.homeftp.net esperanto/zamenhof
69 2010-12-01 00:29:59 <genjix> that has *everything*
70 2010-12-01 00:30:44 <grondilu> genjix: mi jxus rigardis vian retforumon. Ne multe da respondoj, bedauxrinde :(
71 2010-12-01 00:30:47 <genjix> __ Vi povas alshuti -> Teach Yourself Esperanto
72 2010-12-01 00:31:07 <genjix> also flavaj mojosoluoj is the simpsons
73 2010-12-01 00:31:24 <genjix> jen nia mondo is book + audio book
74 2010-12-01 00:31:25 <grondilu> "also" ?
75 2010-12-01 00:31:44 <genjix> and theres a whole bunch of films too in filmoj
76 2010-12-01 00:32:00 <nanotube> genjix: tx, downloading 'step by step esperanto'. :)
77 2010-12-01 00:32:13 <grondilu> oh ok you were mixing english and esperanto :P
78 2010-12-01 00:32:14 <nanotube> genjix: thanks :)
79 2010-12-01 00:32:26 <genjix> grondilu: tio estas Äar mi ĵus afiÅis tiun poston!
80 2010-12-01 00:32:34 <brucewagner> What other Charities or Businesses should I add to the http://BitcoinPromote.com list ?
81 2010-12-01 00:33:14 <grondilu> So, bitcoin.org down : is that the first DoS attack from governments ;) ?
82 2010-12-01 00:33:17 <genjix> dropbox?
83 2010-12-01 00:33:22 <genjix> why are they there
84 2010-12-01 00:33:41 <genjix> dropbox like to shut stuff down that they dont like
85 2010-12-01 00:33:46 <nanotube> brucewagner: wikileaks producs/services: free speech. priceless :)
86 2010-12-01 00:34:05 <brucewagner> yep :)
87 2010-12-01 00:34:31 <genjix> tbh id just clear it and put wikileaks/wikipedia
88 2010-12-01 00:34:44 bertodsera has joined
89 2010-12-01 00:34:45 <genjix> but thats me :p
90 2010-12-01 00:38:40 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
91 2010-12-01 00:39:14 <Kiba> is bitcoin.org back up yet?
92 2010-12-01 00:39:22 * grondilu was beginning to get addicted to bitcoin.org and look forward for it to be back.
93 2010-12-01 00:40:05 * grondilu thinks he is not the only one ;)
94 2010-12-01 00:40:15 <brucewagner> We have wikileaks and wikipedia on the list... There are loads more tho. This is only the start.
95 2010-12-01 00:40:47 <doublec> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
96 2010-12-01 00:40:53 <brucewagner> This IRC is the temporary bitcoin.org forum for now... :)
97 2010-12-01 00:40:53 <gribble> It's not just you!
98 2010-12-01 00:41:06 <grondilu> brucewagner: I can't access BitcoinPromote.com with my browser.
99 2010-12-01 00:41:26 <brucewagner> try http://bitcoinpromote.com (lower case)
100 2010-12-01 00:41:55 <brucewagner> there's a redirect weirdness i have to get around to fixing some day
101 2010-12-01 00:41:55 <grondilu> indeed
102 2010-12-01 00:42:41 <brucewagner> What other businesses and organizations should I add to our TARGETED list?
103 2010-12-01 00:43:10 <grondilu> FSF ?
104 2010-12-01 00:43:47 * grondilu wonders what Richard Stallman thinks about bitcoins.
105 2010-12-01 00:44:09 * grondilu wonders what Steve Jobs thinks about bitcoins.
106 2010-12-01 00:44:19 * grondilu wonders what Barack Obama thinks about bitcoins.
107 2010-12-01 00:44:29 <grondilu> and so on...
108 2010-12-01 00:44:36 <Kiba> brucewagner: well, just because they accept bitcoin doesn't mean
109 2010-12-01 00:44:44 <Kiba> that donations will flow in
110 2010-12-01 00:45:12 * grondilu knows what Ben Bernanke will think about bitcoins when he learns about it.
111 2010-12-01 00:45:30 <Kiba> BUNKER
112 2010-12-01 00:46:02 <Kiba> man, I am an unemployed college student..
113 2010-12-01 00:46:11 <Kiba> I need to find myself a productive bitcoin niche
114 2010-12-01 00:47:28 <grondilu> Kiba: you should not expect earn a living with bitcoins. It's a bit early for that.
115 2010-12-01 00:48:11 <brucewagner> grondilu: Yes, I emailed FSF already. I forget to add them tho. I got a response already too!
116 2010-12-01 00:48:18 <nanotube> brucewagner: consider the 'support nanotube foundation' :D
117 2010-12-01 00:48:47 <grondilu> I wrote to SFS a month ago I think. I had no response.
118 2010-12-01 00:48:55 <grondilu> s/SFS/FSF/
119 2010-12-01 00:49:06 <brucewagner> kiba: buy and sell bitcoins for cash locally
120 2010-12-01 00:50:33 <xelister> Diablo-D3: not possible to cache the builded kernel?
121 2010-12-01 00:50:54 <xelister> grondilu wonders what Barack Obama thinks about bitcoins.
122 2010-12-01 00:50:59 <xelister> "damn terrorists"?
123 2010-12-01 00:51:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: not worth it.
124 2010-12-01 00:51:11 <xelister> jobs->dam commies stallman->then should gplv3 it
125 2010-12-01 00:51:38 bertodsera has joined
126 2010-12-01 00:55:13 <bencoder> no you're not the only one, grondilu :)
127 2010-12-01 00:55:18 <bencoder> sorry bit behind
128 2010-12-01 00:55:24 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
129 2010-12-01 00:55:41 <nanotube> anyone knows who runs .org? who should be emailed about the downtime?
130 2010-12-01 00:55:56 <bencoder> Sirius_ apparently
131 2010-12-01 00:57:40 FreeMoney has joined
132 2010-12-01 00:57:47 <theymos> I already emailed Satoshi. I don't know Sirius-m's main email, but he should be reachable at support@bitcoinexchange.com.
133 2010-12-01 00:58:08 AAA_awright_ has joined
134 2010-12-01 00:58:22 dust__ has joined
135 2010-12-01 00:58:37 <brucewagner> nanotube: give me your bitcoin address for donations
136 2010-12-01 00:58:46 AAA_awright has quit (Disconnected by services)
137 2010-12-01 00:58:55 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
138 2010-12-01 01:00:23 <grondilu> And Peter Schiff ? Has anyone tried to contact him and suggested him to accept bitcoin donations ?
139 2010-12-01 01:00:30 <jgarzik> brocktice: it would be nice if EPIC took donations via bitcoin
140 2010-12-01 01:00:31 <AAA_awright> ?
141 2010-12-01 01:00:34 <jgarzik> er
142 2010-12-01 01:00:40 <jgarzik> brucewagner: it would be nice if EPIC took donations via bitcoin
143 2010-12-01 01:01:26 darksk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
144 2010-12-01 01:01:28 <AAA_awright> Progressives: BitCoins -> Evil
145 2010-12-01 01:01:55 <AAA_awright> Certainly Obama, Bernanke, possibly RMS
146 2010-12-01 01:02:25 <grondilu> Yeah I'm afraid RMS is a bit too left-minded to like bitcoin.
147 2010-12-01 01:02:29 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
148 2010-12-01 01:02:36 <AAA_awright> Whatever it is I think we will be suprised
149 2010-12-01 01:02:53 davex__ has joined
150 2010-12-01 01:03:07 <AAA_awright> Is it just me or is the FSF and the EFF not on the best of terms?
151 2010-12-01 01:03:12 <JudStephenson> grondilu: +100 for saying Schiff
152 2010-12-01 01:03:34 <JudStephenson> Do you follow the Austrian school by chance?
153 2010-12-01 01:03:44 <grondilu> But I woudn't be very surprised if Steve Jobs starts his own block chain in the future.
154 2010-12-01 01:04:27 <grondilu> JudStephenson: I followed Peter Schiff, Max Keiser, Marc Faber, Jim Rogers and so on during the crisis.
155 2010-12-01 01:04:29 <bencoder> only authorised blocks are allowed in the block chain, vetted by apple employees
156 2010-12-01 01:04:36 <AAA_awright> That's somewhat of a concern I have too...
157 2010-12-01 01:04:44 <AAA_awright> Or any big bank, who knows, the NSA
158 2010-12-01 01:05:00 anarchyx has joined
159 2010-12-01 01:05:01 <grondilu> AAA_awright: it would not necessarly be a bad thing.
160 2010-12-01 01:05:07 <brucewagner> Has anyone seen this? "Ron Paul may Oversee The Fed" http://goo.gl/ZDOxT
161 2010-12-01 01:05:08 <AAA_awright> I mean who better to subvert BitCoin than the Fed and the NSA working together... that would be creept
162 2010-12-01 01:05:18 <grondilu> competing cryptocurrencies is fine.
163 2010-12-01 01:05:24 <anarchyx> feds worst nightmare
164 2010-12-01 01:05:33 <anarchyx> i wish it happens
165 2010-12-01 01:05:35 <anarchyx> :)
166 2010-12-01 01:06:05 <JudStephenson> I think the fed would die if it had to show its books
167 2010-12-01 01:06:19 <AAA_awright> Who is up for some discussion on advanced theory?
168 2010-12-01 01:06:36 <anarchyx> advanced theory of ?
169 2010-12-01 01:06:39 <JudStephenson> advanced theory of?
170 2010-12-01 01:06:51 <grondilu> Sometimes it seems to me that Ron Paul is the real POTUS
171 2010-12-01 01:06:59 <JudStephenson> ah, good one anarchyx
172 2010-12-01 01:07:15 <anarchyx> nice lol
173 2010-12-01 01:07:43 <AAA_awright> What if you didn't need a block chain?
174 2010-12-01 01:07:47 * grondilu doesn't understant the joke
175 2010-12-01 01:07:59 <AAA_awright> It's designed not to fork, but if it does it's pretty serious
176 2010-12-01 01:08:28 * JudStephenson was lost at Block Chain
177 2010-12-01 01:08:43 <AAA_awright> No crypto CSE people here?
178 2010-12-01 01:09:06 bertodsera has joined
179 2010-12-01 01:09:09 * tcatm waits for the next block
180 2010-12-01 01:09:45 <brucewagner> We come from so many diverse backgrounds, and areas of expertise... That's one of the things I love most about the Bitcoin community. And, it is a real Community.
181 2010-12-01 01:09:51 <davex__> AAA_awright, what are you talking about
182 2010-12-01 01:10:09 <AAA_awright> The design of the network
183 2010-12-01 01:10:28 <grondilu> brucewagner: I doubt so. My guess is most of us are typical no-life nerds.
184 2010-12-01 01:10:53 <brucewagner> Ha ha! Speak for yourself! :)
185 2010-12-01 01:10:54 <AAA_awright> Alright, here's a theory I've been working on.
186 2010-12-01 01:11:01 <brucewagner> I have a life....
187 2010-12-01 01:11:02 <brucewagner> sometimes
188 2010-12-01 01:11:12 <AAA_awright> Someone let me know if this gets cut off. Define a hashing function GETTHEBLOCK( inputs ) which takes the entire list of private keys and how much they hold, and produces a very large number based on it, in such a way a private key with a balance of zero passed to the input does not affect the output, and additionally such that an examination of the hash can reveal how many total units of currency it embodies. All numbers (bit arrays)
189 2010-12-01 01:11:12 <AAA_awright> are unsigned, so there cannot be a negative balance. Create a public/private key pair "ORIGIN", and define that private key to own T units of currency (T being the maximum number that the configuration of the algroithm permits). Create the first block B0 by passing that private key/balance pair to GETTHEBLOCK to produce the prime block B0.
190 2010-12-01 01:11:19 <grondilu> I said "most of us"
191 2010-12-01 01:12:24 <brucewagner> I understood that completely.
192 2010-12-01 01:12:25 <AAA_awright> Right?
193 2010-12-01 01:12:38 <AAA_awright> Produce a second public/private key pair "A". Create an acyclic directed graph with a single node of value B0, this represents A's first "transaction" formally giving that private key a balance of zero.
194 2010-12-01 01:12:43 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
195 2010-12-01 01:13:01 <AAA_awright> So we don't make the block network a linear directed graph, instead we make each person's transactions an acyclic directed graph that is (usually) linear.
196 2010-12-01 01:13:13 <brucewagner> Everything.....up to the first instance of the word, "hashing"
197 2010-12-01 01:13:30 <genjix> brucewagner: diverse backgrounds?
198 2010-12-01 01:13:39 <AAA_awright> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashing_function
199 2010-12-01 01:13:44 <AAA_awright> brucewagner: Like SHA256!
200 2010-12-01 01:13:50 <genjix> you mean a bunch of paranoid libertarian/anarchist hackers?
201 2010-12-01 01:13:57 <grondilu> AAA_awright: can you tell us what's your goal first ?
202 2010-12-01 01:13:58 <davex__> don't know what problem you're solving
203 2010-12-01 01:13:59 <genjix> how is that diverse :p
204 2010-12-01 01:14:38 <AAA_awright> The goal, is to entirely remove the transaction history and consolidate it into a hash
205 2010-12-01 01:15:07 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: that sounds wonderful.... it really does. but I don't understand it. How will eliminating the transaction history improve usage?
206 2010-12-01 01:15:20 <tcatm> The transaction history could already be discarded.
207 2010-12-01 01:15:30 <anarchyx> brucewagner: i love your inputs in the forums etc, really good to have you
208 2010-12-01 01:15:33 <AAA_awright> You don't have to download all the blocks that came before you to know if your transaction worked
209 2010-12-01 01:15:39 <AAA_awright> or something
210 2010-12-01 01:15:43 <brucewagner> anarchyx: thanks! :)
211 2010-12-01 01:15:48 <anarchyx> ;)
212 2010-12-01 01:16:03 <AAA_awright> Now here is the magic. GETTHEBLOCK is defined in such a way that ORIGIN can encrypt then sign then encrypt (again -- so that without A's private key a third party cannot prove from the fully decrypted message who sent it) a message for and readable by A, that allows A to modify the block to what GETTHEBLOCK would produce if ORIGIN had x less currency and A had x more currency (maybe they have to negotiate the actual change that happens
213 2010-12-01 01:16:03 <AAA_awright> interactively... ORIGIN only knows the change it would produce with x less, but not what A would do with x more). If ORIGIN has transactions that A does not have and vice versa and can be merged "cleanly", the clients also exchange this information (probably beforehand). The changes made to the block by this transaction are then broadcast to the network.
214 2010-12-01 01:16:04 <davex__> AAA_awright, that problem's addressed in the bitcoin white paper
215 2010-12-01 01:16:07 <genjix> any other squatters here?
216 2010-12-01 01:16:17 <grondilu> AAA_awright: downloading all the blocks doesn't take that much time.
217 2010-12-01 01:16:32 <AAA_awright> It takes me several hours to download a few thousand blocks
218 2010-12-01 01:16:53 <AAA_awright> Plus, you can see all the transactions
219 2010-12-01 01:17:01 <grondilu> you had a poor connection. And several hours is fine for a one-time task.
220 2010-12-01 01:17:47 <tcatm> AAA_awright: Can you draft your idea on a paper/PDF?
221 2010-12-01 01:17:50 <brucewagner> Is seeing all the transactions a bad thing? Is that bad for anonymity?
222 2010-12-01 01:18:01 <AAA_awright> tcatm: Well the thing is GETTHEBLOCK might be impossible
223 2010-12-01 01:18:03 <AAA_awright> I think it is
224 2010-12-01 01:18:08 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: have you written a post about this in the development forum?
225 2010-12-01 01:18:14 <AAA_awright> Not quite yet
226 2010-12-01 01:18:20 <doublec> brucewagner, it's good for tracking down scammers and investigating problems
227 2010-12-01 01:18:26 <doublec> brucewagner, but bad for anonymity
228 2010-12-01 01:18:33 <tcatm> Would still be nice to have it written down so the idea doesn't get lost.
229 2010-12-01 01:18:53 <bencoder> not really any other way to maintain trust brucewagner. either everyone sees all transactions and we can know how someone ended up with a particular coin or piece of coin, or people can cheat
230 2010-12-01 01:18:58 <AAA_awright> That's most of a file I have saved right now
231 2010-12-01 01:19:07 <AAA_awright> Meh I'll post to the forum
232 2010-12-01 01:19:11 <grondilu> AAA_awright: have you red the white paper ?
233 2010-12-01 01:19:12 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: I'd definately encourage you to write it down and post it in the forum (once it's back up)
234 2010-12-01 01:19:23 <AAA_awright> brucewagner: A little yeah
235 2010-12-01 01:19:24 <theymos> It's impossible to say "this transaction is not double-spending" unless you have every other unspent transaction.
236 2010-12-01 01:19:29 <AAA_awright> grondilu: A little yeah
237 2010-12-01 01:19:44 <grondilu> AAA_awright: then I think you should read it more.
238 2010-12-01 01:20:08 <brucewagner> Your idea could lead to other, even better, ideas... when others put their heads together.
239 2010-12-01 01:20:29 <grondilu> but I agree with brucewagner : you should post your ideas on the forum
240 2010-12-01 01:20:35 <brucewagner> Then, if it gets that far, you can begin working on a test network. :)
241 2010-12-01 01:21:27 <brucewagner> Ohhh.... the collaboration of the human collective consciousness.... is capable of ANYTHING
242 2010-12-01 01:21:38 <AAA_awright> theymos: If transactions are broadcast to the network right away that won't happen, also, every transaction embodies all the transactions before it, so transactions could propigate that way even without a network
243 2010-12-01 01:22:03 <bencoder> hmm, how do i use fms? do I have to leave it on for a while until it's picked up the bitcoin board?
244 2010-12-01 01:22:45 <AAA_awright> You would have to give money to two seperate people who aren't connected to each other, in such a way that transaction wouldn't be able to clear if they had to merge
245 2010-12-01 01:22:56 <AAA_awright> That's the worst-case
246 2010-12-01 01:24:28 <AAA_awright> Also, has anyone taken a look at my end-to-end encrypted IP proposal?
247 2010-12-01 01:24:42 <AAA_awright> I'm completely suprised no one has done anything like that
248 2010-12-01 01:24:45 <theymos> bencoder: Yes. Also add some trust in some identities.
249 2010-12-01 01:26:02 bertodsera has joined
250 2010-12-01 01:26:45 <brocktice> wow, so, site is down
251 2010-12-01 01:26:53 <brocktice> I guess I'm probably a little behind on that
252 2010-12-01 01:27:55 <brocktice> reddit effect?
253 2010-12-01 01:28:35 <brucewagner> (i'm back)
254 2010-12-01 01:29:54 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
255 2010-12-01 01:30:13 <Kiba> can't be, brucewagner
256 2010-12-01 01:30:21 <Kiba> err
257 2010-12-01 01:30:22 <Kiba> brocktice:
258 2010-12-01 01:30:26 <Kiba> auto-complete
259 2010-12-01 01:30:52 <brocktice> Kiba: can't be what? From Reddit?
260 2010-12-01 01:30:59 <brocktice> who hosts bitcoin.org? Satoshi?
261 2010-12-01 01:31:00 <AAA_awright> What's a reddit?
262 2010-12-01 01:31:05 <xelister> https://www.bitcoinexchange.com/ dead?
263 2010-12-01 01:31:09 <AAA_awright> You mean the Slashdot effect?
264 2010-12-01 01:31:19 <brocktice> AAA_awright: did it get posted on slashdot again?
265 2010-12-01 01:31:26 <AAA_awright> Not specifically?
266 2010-12-01 01:31:38 <RHorning> I've done a tracert and ping connection to bitcoin.org.... it seems to be a solid connection. Either this is a crashed server or a DOS attack.
267 2010-12-01 01:32:02 <brucewagner> Was there a new article on reddit? Or was that just a guess?
268 2010-12-01 01:32:11 <bencoder> Sirius_ hosts bitcoin.org and bitcoinexchange I believe
269 2010-12-01 01:32:12 <grondilu> a DoS attack ? Seriously ?
270 2010-12-01 01:32:19 <theymos> Sirius-m hosts both bitcoin.org and Bitcoin Exchange. Something's wrong with the network at his server location: its TCP is behaving oddly.
271 2010-12-01 01:32:21 <dust__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ee05t/bitcoin_is_a_open_source_peertopeer_network_based/
272 2010-12-01 01:32:26 <Kiba> I recokn a crashed server
273 2010-12-01 01:32:46 PeterC has joined
274 2010-12-01 01:32:49 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: see http://reddit.com ( a news ranking site )
275 2010-12-01 01:33:02 <AAA_awright> People still read that thing?
276 2010-12-01 01:33:08 <bencoder> when it first happened i could get to /smf but it just moaned it couldn't connect to the database
277 2010-12-01 01:33:11 * grondilu doesn't beleive in a DoS attack. Rather a crashed server indeed.
278 2010-12-01 01:33:20 PeterC is now known as Peter_C
279 2010-12-01 01:33:21 <bencoder> so i don't think it's the web server
280 2010-12-01 01:33:51 bertodsera has joined
281 2010-12-01 01:34:07 <brocktice> Who runs it? Satoshi?
282 2010-12-01 01:34:15 <brocktice> It wouldn't be the first attack on the bitcoin network
283 2010-12-01 01:34:22 <brocktice> first there was the tx spamming
284 2010-12-01 01:34:33 <brocktice> I wonder if there's a bitcoin tiger team?
285 2010-12-01 01:34:37 <brocktice> I saw some mention of this on the forums.
286 2010-12-01 01:35:00 <Kiba> tiger team?
287 2010-12-01 01:35:18 <brocktice> http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=tiger+team
288 2010-12-01 01:35:27 <Kiba> how active is sirus?
289 2010-12-01 01:35:43 <AAA_awright> Oh that's the other great thing about my idea... You can reduce an infinite number of transactions down to a single message
290 2010-12-01 01:35:52 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
291 2010-12-01 01:36:01 <bencoder> theymos can i add your public key?
292 2010-12-01 01:36:01 <AAA_awright> And it should still be mathematically hard
293 2010-12-01 01:36:24 <theymos> bencoder: Add it to what?
294 2010-12-01 01:36:39 newboy has joined
295 2010-12-01 01:36:41 <bencoder> fms
296 2010-12-01 01:36:57 <bencoder> i mean, can you give it to me so i can add it... one of your identities
297 2010-12-01 01:37:10 <MacRohard> weird. traceroute to bitcoin.org works fine
298 2010-12-01 01:37:17 <bencoder> yep
299 2010-12-01 01:37:21 <theymos> Oh. I haven't been on FMS for a while. Solve some CAPTCHAs to get some identities added to your list.
300 2010-12-01 01:37:27 <MacRohard> maybe it's getting DOSed and some kind of DOS countermeasure came into play
301 2010-12-01 01:37:32 <bencoder> not really weird if ping works
302 2010-12-01 01:37:48 <theymos> brocktice: Then give them trust so you download more identities, boards, messages, etc.
303 2010-12-01 01:38:04 <bencoder> theymos: yeah i've given them 100, perhaps naively :P
304 2010-12-01 01:38:05 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: The fact that an infinite number of transactions could be reduced to one message, could become very beneficial once there are 287,000,000 transactions being processed per minute globally. No?
305 2010-12-01 01:38:19 <AAA_awright> Right
306 2010-12-01 01:38:38 <AAA_awright> hmm, s/infinite/indefinate/
307 2010-12-01 01:38:45 <tcatm> Old transactions can already be removed from the chain.
308 2010-12-01 01:38:46 <AAA_awright> *indefinite
309 2010-12-01 01:38:54 <bencoder> god i hope we get to a point where this will start to be real concerns
310 2010-12-01 01:39:12 <AAA_awright> Scale is hard
311 2010-12-01 01:39:12 <MacRohard> i think someone must be attacking the port 80 - either that or just the flood of reddit traffic is flooding the port 80
312 2010-12-01 01:39:16 <theymos> bencoder: That works fine. If you trust a spammer, the other identities' trust rating cancels it out usually. There aren't any spammers on FMS, anyway.
313 2010-12-01 01:39:27 <bencoder> ok
314 2010-12-01 01:39:32 <brocktice> theymos: wha?
315 2010-12-01 01:39:50 bertodsera has joined
316 2010-12-01 01:39:57 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
317 2010-12-01 01:40:00 <doublec> bencoder, it'll take about 12-24 hours for the trust to progogate and your identity to be usable
318 2010-12-01 01:40:11 <brucewagner> They are mentioning that the bitcoin.org site is down.... on the comments on that reddit item.
319 2010-12-01 01:40:14 <bencoder> okay, thanks doublec :)
320 2010-12-01 01:40:46 <bencoder> will check tomorrow night i guess
321 2010-12-01 01:41:01 <bencoder> running freenet via a vps is far superior
322 2010-12-01 01:41:14 <doublec> At some point you'll see 'Announced' set to 'Yes' in 'Local Identities' against the identity you used to fill out the captcha
323 2010-12-01 01:42:18 <theymos> Anyone want to add my node as a Freenet peer? I'm online like 24/7.
324 2010-12-01 01:42:55 <bencoder> sure :)
325 2010-12-01 01:43:18 <MacRohard> maybe create some usenet newsgroups for bitcoin
326 2010-12-01 01:43:32 <doublec> theymos, I will if you send me your node reference signed with your pgp key
327 2010-12-01 01:43:36 <brocktice> brucewagner: I wish you wouldn't push so hard that bitcoin transactions will always be free
328 2010-12-01 01:43:37 <MacRohard> i dunno if anyone would use it though :/
329 2010-12-01 01:43:41 <brocktice> brucewagner: that is not true
330 2010-12-01 01:43:54 <theymos> bencoder: I PMed you.
331 2010-12-01 01:43:55 <brocktice> brucewagner: though I doubt it will ever get western-union bad in terms of fees.
332 2010-12-01 01:43:59 <theymos> doublec: OK.
333 2010-12-01 01:45:20 <brucewagner> brocktice: Did you see the (*) footnote? I worded it carefully and had the Forum verify it for total accuracy....
334 2010-12-01 01:45:20 grondilu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
335 2010-12-01 01:45:21 <genjix> having the bitcoin site down is not at all good for propaganda
336 2010-12-01 01:46:16 <brucewagner> brocktice: HERE IT IS: * Users have the OPTION of paying a very tiny fee (like $0.01 for example) to receive "priority processing" of their transaction. In the future, this should result in faster processing of their transaction. (In fact, the system is designed so that transactions that pay $0.02 fee will have even higher priority than transactions that pay a $0.01 optional fee.) However, at this point, with the curren
337 2010-12-01 01:46:53 <brocktice> brucewagner: please see my msg to you
338 2010-12-01 01:47:04 <brocktice> There is no asterisk on the front page of your site
339 2010-12-01 01:47:14 <brocktice> Where you say 'it's as free as email'
340 2010-12-01 01:47:22 <brucewagner> On the front page of the site, the word "free" is a link.
341 2010-12-01 01:47:42 <brucewagner> Should it be an * too?
342 2010-12-01 01:47:46 <brocktice> Yes, ah I see you have the asterisk on the next page
343 2010-12-01 01:48:02 <brocktice> I guess if people are going to read into it more that would be okay.
344 2010-12-01 01:48:09 <brocktice> I just... it seems a little misleading.
345 2010-12-01 01:48:18 <brocktice> As does the bit about the rapid increase in price
346 2010-12-01 01:48:21 <brocktice> that may or may not hold.
347 2010-12-01 01:48:24 <theymos> doublec: I PMed you my reference.
348 2010-12-01 01:48:40 <doublec> theymos, thanks, will send you mine shortly
349 2010-12-01 01:49:37 <brocktice> Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think ANY data about transactions are encrypted.
350 2010-12-01 01:49:48 <theymos> They're not.
351 2010-12-01 01:49:56 <theymos> Bitcoin does no encryption whatsoever.
352 2010-12-01 01:49:57 <brucewagner> brocktice: I realize that the * is buried a little... but I think it's appropriate. Actually, I think that calling the "optional priority processing fee"... a "transaction fee".... is misleading.
353 2010-12-01 01:49:59 <genjix> ah i get the transaction thing now then
354 2010-12-01 01:49:59 <brocktice> They're cryptographically signed and verified by strong hashes.
355 2010-12-01 01:50:15 <genjix> yeah plz change that
356 2010-12-01 01:50:22 <genjix> i never understood before now
357 2010-12-01 01:50:29 <brocktice> but as the bitcoin block explorer shows, you can pretty easily track transactions to a person
358 2010-12-01 01:50:43 <brocktice> unless a better anonymization service is started, and that is being discussed on the forums.
359 2010-12-01 01:50:44 <genjix> "bitcoin transactions are free but i can pay for them- what for?"
360 2010-12-01 01:50:46 <brucewagner> bricktice: Yes, the part about the rapid increase might be overstated. I may correct that. Although, the trend-line still appears to be a healthy up, up, up...
361 2010-12-01 01:50:50 <brocktice> when they're up...
362 2010-12-01 01:50:59 <davex__> brocktice, how would you track to a person?
363 2010-12-01 01:51:02 <brocktice> brucewagner: please see mtgox.com/blog
364 2010-12-01 01:51:33 <brocktice> davex__: easiest way would be to monitor a large number of nodes and try to correlate with some purchasing or exchanging activity.
365 2010-12-01 01:52:17 <brocktice> anyway I'll be back in a little bit, have ashort meting
366 2010-12-01 01:52:20 <brocktice> a short meting
367 2010-12-01 01:52:48 <brucewagner> bricktice: I mean the overall trendline...
368 2010-12-01 01:54:51 bertodsera has joined
369 2010-12-01 01:56:50 mtgox has quit ()
370 2010-12-01 01:59:24 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
371 2010-12-01 02:25:22 dust__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
372 2010-12-01 02:28:50 redMBA has joined
373 2010-12-01 02:30:23 newboy has left ()
374 2010-12-01 02:32:08 bertodsera has joined
375 2010-12-01 02:34:14 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
376 2010-12-01 02:36:57 bertodsera has joined
377 2010-12-01 02:38:32 <nanotube> brucewagner: what did i do? but see ,,(botsnack) :)
378 2010-12-01 02:38:34 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
379 2010-12-01 02:38:46 <genjix> how do I find the bitcoin FMS forums
380 2010-12-01 02:38:58 <genjix> I only see fms/freenet/public/test
381 2010-12-01 02:39:17 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
382 2010-12-01 02:39:20 <brucewagner> nanotube: what do you mean?
383 2010-12-01 02:39:31 <theymos> genjix: Go to"manage boards", IIRC.
384 2010-12-01 02:39:49 <nanotube> <brucewagner> nanotube: give me your bitcoin address for donations
385 2010-12-01 02:39:52 <genjix> aha thanks
386 2010-12-01 02:39:56 <nanotube> brucewagner: --^ that was in response to that :)
387 2010-12-01 02:40:29 <brucewagner> nanotube: you said you were a poor student.... so give me your bitcoin address for donations.... :)
388 2010-12-01 02:41:03 <doublec> genjix, got to 'manage boards'. Over time more boards will be listed there as messages go through the system.
389 2010-12-01 02:41:09 <nanotube> brucewagner: well, i am... but i must have done something for you to think i deserve some donations. :)
390 2010-12-01 02:41:11 <genjix> I went to 'control boards' and added bitcoin
391 2010-12-01 02:41:12 <doublec> genjix, so it might take 24-48 hours for 'bitcoin' to appear
392 2010-12-01 02:41:14 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
393 2010-12-01 02:41:18 <genjix> but i cant find manage boards
394 2010-12-01 02:41:23 <nanotube> and seeing as how gribble is my bot, when you donate to gribble, you donate to me. :) hence the botsnack bit. :)
395 2010-12-01 02:41:24 <genjix> oh wow 24 hours is looong
396 2010-12-01 02:42:14 <doublec> genjix, it's "Board Maintenance"
397 2010-12-01 02:42:19 RHorning has quit (Quit: Page closed)
398 2010-12-01 02:42:38 <theymos> You can just "add board" bitcoin, though it will be empty until you get a message.
399 2010-12-01 02:43:03 <genjix> cool i see it, but no posts... will have to wait :)
400 2010-12-01 02:43:05 <genjix> thanks
401 2010-12-01 02:43:24 <genjix> aha I see.
402 2010-12-01 02:43:36 <genjix> so FMS only gets new posts... i cant see old posts
403 2010-12-01 02:43:37 <theymos> There's a setting that controls how far back in time you poll for messages, and I believe also how often you poll for messages. Changing those might help.
404 2010-12-01 02:43:54 Foggymyst has joined
405 2010-12-01 02:43:55 <genjix> ok
406 2010-12-01 02:46:08 <genjix> > fuck you ,, fuking anarchist son of a bitch.. .I.
407 2010-12-01 02:46:12 <genjix> message i got :p
408 2010-12-01 02:46:20 <nanotube> btw, any reason bitcoin.org is not hosted on sf.net webhost? sf.net has pretty good uptime, and they can handle craploads of traffic.
409 2010-12-01 02:46:37 bertodsera has joined
410 2010-12-01 02:46:37 <jgarzik> "FMS evokes some nostalgia because itâs pretty-much Usenet over Freenet"
411 2010-12-01 02:46:59 <theymos> Can you host a SMF and DokuWiki on SourceForge? Also, bitcoin.org is a Bitcoin seednode.
412 2010-12-01 02:47:07 * jgarzik halfway wondered if somebody is DDoS anything that appears when googling for "wikileaks"
413 2010-12-01 02:47:12 <jgarzik> DDoS'ing
414 2010-12-01 02:47:13 <nanotube> theymos: yes, and yes.
415 2010-12-01 02:47:44 <nanotube> theymos: you can't host a bitcoin seednode on sf :) but that's no reason not to host the website stuff
416 2010-12-01 02:48:01 Peter_C has left ()
417 2010-12-01 02:48:15 <Foggymyst> While the bitcoin site is down, where can I download the client in the meantime?
418 2010-12-01 02:48:21 <jgarzik> seednode isn't terribly important
419 2010-12-01 02:48:43 <theymos> Foggymyst: The files have always been hosted at http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/
420 2010-12-01 02:48:44 <jgarzik> Foggymyst: if you can compile yourself, you can download source code from SourceForget
421 2010-12-01 02:48:53 <theymos> Binaries are on SF, too.
422 2010-12-01 02:49:10 <Foggymyst> Ok sounds, good.
423 2010-12-01 02:49:24 <jgarzik> ah, cool
424 2010-12-01 02:49:44 <nanotube> jgarzik: even if it was... there shouldn't be a problem hosting the seednode on whatever server it is now, while letting bitcoin.org point to the sf.net webhost.
425 2010-12-01 02:49:55 <theymos> Only like 10% of seednodes are actually online, so it is a shame to remove one...
426 2010-12-01 02:50:29 <nanotube> theymos: what are the important characteristics of being a seednode? i could run one on my vps, if there's a lack of seednodes.
427 2010-12-01 02:50:44 <doublec> same here
428 2010-12-01 02:50:50 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
429 2010-12-01 02:51:12 <genjix> maybe here too if one of you three wishes to set it up
430 2010-12-01 02:51:33 <genjix> but ill have to see in a weeks time.
431 2010-12-01 02:51:48 <nanotube> genjix: well, setting it up shouldn't be any more complex than downloading the linux binary, and running bitcoind...
432 2010-12-01 02:52:05 <nanotube> (and adding it to crontab to autostart)
433 2010-12-01 02:52:16 <theymos> Static IP is important, since it's hardcoded. Also uptime. And you might have to endure a DoS attack, I suppose.
434 2010-12-01 02:52:17 <genjix> ah so its just a generating bitcoin process?
435 2010-12-01 02:52:23 <theymos> Yes.
436 2010-12-01 02:52:36 <nanotube> theymos: seednode doesn't have to generate blocks, though right?
437 2010-12-01 02:52:45 <theymos> No.
438 2010-12-01 02:52:45 <nanotube> theymos: just to sit there and route traffic?
439 2010-12-01 02:52:50 <theymos> Right.
440 2010-12-01 02:52:51 <jgarzik> serve addresses
441 2010-12-01 02:52:58 <doublec> how does one volunteer to be a seednode?
442 2010-12-01 02:53:10 <nanotube> theymos: in that case, i'll set it up...
443 2010-12-01 02:53:25 <nanotube> yea good question - how does one get 'on the list of seednodes' ?
444 2010-12-01 02:53:44 <doublec> And who are the original seednodes :)
445 2010-12-01 02:53:47 <theymos> Satoshi just picked them from the network at random. Maybe you could ask him. He wasn't really interested when I posted the topic about most seednodes being offline, though...
446 2010-12-01 02:54:16 <nanotube> theymos: well we could keep an updated list of seednodes on the wiki
447 2010-12-01 02:54:19 <theymos> Current seednodes: http://pastebin.com/E5KECmtj
448 2010-12-01 02:55:34 <theymos> The list hasn't been changed in months.
449 2010-12-01 02:56:48 <nanotube> mm well, even if the node doesn't get on the 'official list of seednodes', having more good nodes should be good for the network anyway, right?
450 2010-12-01 02:57:17 <nanotube> since existing seednodes will suggest other ips to a newly-connected client?
451 2010-12-01 02:57:34 <theymos> Yes. High-uptime nodes are good.
452 2010-12-01 02:57:51 * nanotube goes about setting it up, then. hoping it doesn't eat too much ram. :)
453 2010-12-01 02:58:04 <theymos> List it at the wiki's fallback_nodes page, too (when it comes back online).
454 2010-12-01 02:58:22 <nanotube> theymos: should we have a backup wiki? i could set one up too
455 2010-12-01 02:58:28 <nanotube> and backup forums? :)
456 2010-12-01 02:58:43 <nanotube> has bitcoin.org been down before?
457 2010-12-01 02:58:52 <theymos> Not that I remember.
458 2010-12-01 02:59:21 <theymos> Backup stuff is probably unnecessary. Satoshi and sirius-m will always set something up in short order.
459 2010-12-01 03:00:45 Denizzz__ has joined
460 2010-12-01 03:01:29 bertodsera has joined
461 2010-12-01 03:01:39 <brucewagner> Has anyone emailed Satoshi about the server being down?
462 2010-12-01 03:01:43 <Denizzz__> hi! What happened with bitcoin.org ?
463 2010-12-01 03:01:44 <theymos> I did.
464 2010-12-01 03:02:13 <brucewagner> ok. cool. he's probably on a hot date right now sipping on some saki and sushi somewhere... :)
465 2010-12-01 03:05:41 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
466 2010-12-01 03:06:57 <Denizzz__> It is utf-8 chat?
467 2010-12-01 03:07:40 <Denizzz__> ðà ç äâà òðè
468 2010-12-01 03:07:42 <Denizzz__> ?
469 2010-12-01 03:11:57 <Kiba> been down waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long
470 2010-12-01 03:11:59 <Kiba> ;_;
471 2010-12-01 03:12:05 <nanotube> Denizzz__: o/ :) yea utf8 works for me.
472 2010-12-01 03:12:16 bertodsera has joined
473 2010-12-01 03:12:18 <nanotube> Denizzz__: it's client-dependent, though. irc just routes whatever bytes you send through.
474 2010-12-01 03:14:54 denizzz has joined
475 2010-12-01 03:15:01 <denizzz> ÑеÑÑ
476 2010-12-01 03:15:06 Denizzz__ has quit (Quit: Ãà þò çà ïà ñû õâîéÃîãî äðåâîñòîÿ!..)
477 2010-12-01 03:15:38 Lachesis has joined
478 2010-12-01 03:16:12 <Lachesis> hey
479 2010-12-01 03:16:15 <denizzz> brucewagner: can you fix word "РоÑÑиÑ" to "Ð ÑÑÑкий" on http://www.bitcoinme.com/index.html ?
480 2010-12-01 03:16:16 <Lachesis> is bitcoin.org down?
481 2010-12-01 03:16:26 <denizzz> Lachesis: yes
482 2010-12-01 03:16:31 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
483 2010-12-01 03:16:51 <denizzz> There was no need to try to make friendship with the wikileaks
484 2010-12-01 03:17:33 Lachesis2 has joined
485 2010-12-01 03:17:48 <Lachesis> so... why?
486 2010-12-01 03:18:41 <denizzz> Lachesis: FBI closed site on suspicion of collaboration with wikileaks
487 2010-12-01 03:18:59 <denizzz> All developers are arrested
488 2010-12-01 03:19:44 <Lachesis> umm?
489 2010-12-01 03:19:49 <denizzz> just a joke
490 2010-12-01 03:19:55 <Lachesis> i see
491 2010-12-01 03:20:01 <Lachesis> any idea why it's actually down?
492 2010-12-01 03:20:18 Lachesis2 has quit (Client Quit)
493 2010-12-01 03:20:24 <nanotube> probably some technical problem... or too much traffic, Lachesis
494 2010-12-01 03:20:27 <denizzz> Sometimes computers are broken
495 2010-12-01 03:20:49 <Lachesis> lol ok
496 2010-12-01 03:20:49 <denizzz> ping are works
497 2010-12-01 03:21:29 andrew12 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
498 2010-12-01 03:21:40 <nanotube> yea ping is up, but maybe the webserver is toast... for now, we can only guess. :)
499 2010-12-01 03:22:04 <denizzz> What is Satoshi time zone?
500 2010-12-01 03:22:22 <denizzz> I guess he sleep by now
501 2010-12-01 03:25:24 <theymos> He sends email from UTC+1. His email to me has always been 8AM-12PM central US time.
502 2010-12-01 03:25:27 bitplane has joined
503 2010-12-01 03:26:25 <bitplane> Hi, I just learned about bitcoin today, is the website usually down?
504 2010-12-01 03:26:38 <doublec> no normally, no
505 2010-12-01 03:26:38 <theymos> Nope. Usually up.
506 2010-12-01 03:26:46 <doublec> this is the longest outage I can remember
507 2010-12-01 03:27:09 <bitplane> mind if I ask some dumb questions here, or should I take it to #bitcoin ?
508 2010-12-01 03:27:17 <nanotube> bitplane: here's the place :)
509 2010-12-01 03:27:22 <theymos> Ask away. There's nothing at #bitcoin.
510 2010-12-01 03:27:23 <doublec> you can download source and clients here btw: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/
511 2010-12-01 03:27:24 <bitplane> cool thanks :)
512 2010-12-01 03:28:11 canadaduane has joined
513 2010-12-01 03:28:20 <bitplane> First dumb question.. what happens if someone sends me a coin and I'm not connected to the network?
514 2010-12-01 03:28:34 <theymos> You'll get it when you connect.
515 2010-12-01 03:29:04 <bitplane> and my wallet file is what says it's me, not the receiving addresses?
516 2010-12-01 03:29:32 <theymos> Your wallet file contains the private keys that allow you to spend any bitcoins that you recieve.
517 2010-12-01 03:29:51 <bitplane> Does my wallet contain actual bitcoins, or is it immutable?
518 2010-12-01 03:30:02 <nanotube> your wallet file contains your private keys, addresses are hashes of your public key counterparts. the keys are what give you ownership of any bitcoins sent to addresses.
519 2010-12-01 03:30:14 <theymos> Just the private keys. Coins don't actually exist in any way -- they're just a series of transactions.
520 2010-12-01 03:30:27 <theymos> Bitcoin has a sort of distributed database. You can see the transactions at http://blockexplorer.com/
521 2010-12-01 03:30:50 <nanotube> bitplane: but in short, you need to keep your wallet both safe, and well backed-up.
522 2010-12-01 03:31:26 <bitplane> can I use the same wallet in multiple places, like running bitcoin --server on my VPS with the same wallet file?
523 2010-12-01 03:31:41 <genjix> so the UK wants to bring in a law giving computer-generated pornographic images of apparent children the same status as child pornography, on the grounds that society should permit no indulgence of paedophilic desires.
524 2010-12-01 03:31:52 <genjix> Because of second life avatars looking like children
525 2010-12-01 03:32:03 <theymos> bitplane: No.
526 2010-12-01 03:32:04 <bitplane> genjix, that's already law here :(
527 2010-12-01 03:32:08 <genjix> child like avatar in second life = child porn? wtf
528 2010-12-01 03:32:11 <nanotube> bitplane: not recommended. otherwise you could accidentally attempt to send the same coins twice... which would be problematic (for you, not the network)
529 2010-12-01 03:32:32 <bill__> there was a story about australia wanting to ban pornography which featured "young-looking" performers for the same reason
530 2010-12-01 03:32:34 * nanotube will just let theymos take care of the questions :)
531 2010-12-01 03:32:43 <bitplane> genjix, iirc the law is about the "likeness" of a child, cartoon CP is banned
532 2010-12-01 03:33:11 <nanotube> genjix: heh, talk about bs...
533 2010-12-01 03:33:56 bertodsera has joined
534 2010-12-01 03:33:58 <denizzz> <theymos> He sends email from UTC+1. His email to me has always been 8AM-12PM central US time.
535 2010-12-01 03:34:02 <bitplane> http://gallery.bitplane.net/d/681-1/cartoon+porn.png
536 2010-12-01 03:34:09 <denizzz> Satoshi in Europe ?
537 2010-12-01 03:34:27 <theymos> Unknown.
538 2010-12-01 03:34:36 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
539 2010-12-01 03:34:52 <theymos> It could be that his email provider, gmx, just sends from that.
540 2010-12-01 03:35:01 <doublec> bitplane, I run multiple bitcoin instances on VPS's. I use different wallets and just transfer coins between them when I need too.
541 2010-12-01 03:35:08 <genjix> bitplane: lmao
542 2010-12-01 03:35:22 <bitplane> cool doublec.. is there a way to have it auto-send when generated?
543 2010-12-01 03:35:44 <bitplane> if not, I guess I should request that!
544 2010-12-01 03:35:50 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
545 2010-12-01 03:35:57 <doublec> no, but there are shell scripts in the forums that do that
546 2010-12-01 03:36:11 Lachesis has joined
547 2010-12-01 03:36:28 <bitplane> last question: how long do I need to leave it running for, on average, and how many fractions of coin does it make at a time?
548 2010-12-01 03:36:39 <doublec> generating on a vps might be frowned upon by the vps operators
549 2010-12-01 03:36:44 <denizzz> bitplane: ooo, forgot about it
550 2010-12-01 03:37:07 <doublec> bitplane, 50 coins when you generate a block. and the time it takes depends on the power of your machine
551 2010-12-01 03:37:20 <theymos> You make 50BTC at a time. The chance of winning 50 BTC depends on your processing speed. You can calculate it (substitute your khash/s):
552 2010-12-01 03:37:30 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 2000
553 2010-12-01 03:37:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 28 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes, and 52 seconds
554 2010-12-01 03:37:31 <jgarzik> bitcoin is great on a VPS, if you use an off-board CPU or GPU miner :)
555 2010-12-01 03:37:40 <doublec> ooh, new difficulty level
556 2010-12-01 03:38:05 <denizzz> Complexity can decrease or increase it only?
557 2010-12-01 03:38:11 <theymos> Both.
558 2010-12-01 03:38:15 <bitplane> wow, and this gets exponentially harder as the coins become more scarce?
559 2010-12-01 03:38:16 <denizzz> ok
560 2010-12-01 03:38:38 <theymos> bitplane: No. A block is created every 10 minutes. The reward per block hashes every 4 years.
561 2010-12-01 03:38:46 <theymos> halves*
562 2010-12-01 03:38:51 <denizzz> bitplane: on bitcoin wiki was chart about it, but site is down now..
563 2010-12-01 03:39:16 <jgarzik> bitplane: the algorithm difficulty is adjusted based on how much the network exceeds 6 blocks / hour
564 2010-12-01 03:39:16 <theymos> http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9992/coins.png
565 2010-12-01 03:39:21 <doublec> bitplane, another option is participating in a 'pooled' miner. Where one instance of bitcoin distributes the generation task amongst a pool of machines and the 50 coins generated is split between the contributers.
566 2010-12-01 03:39:31 <nanotube> theymos: well, there goes my idea of running a node - glibc is too old.
567 2010-12-01 03:39:31 <bitplane> cool
568 2010-12-01 03:40:03 <bitplane> x axis is days, y is blocks?
569 2010-12-01 03:40:42 <theymos> Y axis is total coins in circulation. X is "days from now", where 0 was actually a few months ago. A better chart is on the wiki (down now).
570 2010-12-01 03:41:18 <denizzz> When the site will work will need to ask whether they do backups.
571 2010-12-01 03:42:02 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
572 2010-12-01 03:42:07 <bitplane> thanks
573 2010-12-01 03:42:19 <canadaduane> I recall that bitcoingateway was going to be re-opened yesterday. Any news?
574 2010-12-01 03:42:22 <bitplane> one more question: is the free bitcoin site broken?
575 2010-12-01 03:42:23 <theymos> nanotube: Can't you compile it?
576 2010-12-01 03:42:55 <theymos> bitplane: It shouldn't be. https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/ You won't see any transactions until you have all of the blocks, though.
577 2010-12-01 03:43:15 <bitplane> how big are the blocks and how many are there?
578 2010-12-01 03:43:20 <theymos> ;;bc,blocks
579 2010-12-01 03:43:20 <gribble> 94821
580 2010-12-01 03:43:41 <theymos> It shouldn't take more than an hour or two. The number you have is displayed in the Bitcoin UI (lower right).
581 2010-12-01 03:44:01 <bitplane> ah, I see. 67k at the moment
582 2010-12-01 03:44:03 <denizzz> In English the sinewave chart is a "chart" or "graph" or "diagram"?
583 2010-12-01 03:44:06 <nanotube> theymos: guess i'll try that next :)
584 2010-12-01 03:44:26 <JudStephenson> ;;bc,blocks
585 2010-12-01 03:44:26 <gribble> 94821
586 2010-12-01 03:44:33 <bitplane> the line is the graph, the entire thing is the chart which is a subset of diagram
587 2010-12-01 03:44:44 <denizzz> thanks
588 2010-12-01 03:44:56 <bitplane> as in subclass, charts are diagrams which display data
589 2010-12-01 03:46:05 <JudStephenson> anyone know what bc commands gribble supports?
590 2010-12-01 03:46:10 <nanotube> ;;apropos bc
591 2010-12-01 03:46:11 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
592 2010-12-01 03:46:19 <nanotube> JudStephenson: nobody knows better than gribble himself :)
593 2010-12-01 03:46:25 <JudStephenson> haha
594 2010-12-01 03:46:33 <denizzz> why is gribble?
595 2010-12-01 03:46:44 <nanotube> why not?
596 2010-12-01 03:46:45 <nanotube> :)
597 2010-12-01 03:47:03 <doublec> ;;bc,mtgox
598 2010-12-01 03:47:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.225,"low":0.2065,"vol":8289,"buy":0.21,"sell":0.2189,"last":0.21}}
599 2010-12-01 03:47:14 <brucewagner> ANOTHER WIN: I got Linux Mint to accept Bitcoin donations. ( see http://bitcoinaddress.com )
600 2010-12-01 03:47:26 <nanotube> brucewagner: nice! :)
601 2010-12-01 03:47:57 <nanotube> brucewagner: btw, still no donation? ;_; ;)
602 2010-12-01 03:48:06 <nanotube> denizzz: what did you actually want to ask?
603 2010-12-01 03:48:24 <nanotube> theymos: bah, i need to install boost and libdbd too. heh. onwards...
604 2010-12-01 03:48:26 <doublec> brucewagner, where do they mention bitcoin?
605 2010-12-01 03:48:36 <genjix> http://www.linuxmint.com/donors.php
606 2010-12-01 03:48:37 <theymos> nanotube: I just compiled them into a prefix.
607 2010-12-01 03:48:40 <genjix> its not on their site?
608 2010-12-01 03:48:56 <doublec> brucewagner, http://tinyvid.tv also accepts bitcoin donations. See http://tinyvid.tv/feedback
609 2010-12-01 03:48:58 bertodsera has joined
610 2010-12-01 03:49:02 <denizzz> You're talking about gribble. Who is gribble or what is gribble?
611 2010-12-01 03:49:03 <nanotube> theymos: well, i can apt-get install the dev packages...
612 2010-12-01 03:49:12 <nanotube> ;;version
613 2010-12-01 03:49:13 <gribble> The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1+gribble (2010-10-10T17:52:04-0400). The newest version available in the gribble git repository is 0.83.4.1+gribble (2010-10-10T17:52:04-0400).
614 2010-12-01 03:49:18 <nanotube> denizzz: gribble is an irc bot
615 2010-12-01 03:49:22 <denizzz> aaa, ok )
616 2010-12-01 03:49:34 <nanotube> :)
617 2010-12-01 03:51:04 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
618 2010-12-01 03:51:24 <denizzz> nmap of bitcoin.org:
619 2010-12-01 03:51:26 <denizzz> 80/tcp open http
620 2010-12-01 03:51:26 <denizzz> 163/tcp filtered cmip-man
621 2010-12-01 03:51:26 <denizzz> 443/tcp open https
622 2010-12-01 03:51:26 <denizzz> 30000/tcp open unknown
623 2010-12-01 03:51:52 <theymos> Try watching a connection with Wireshark. Their TCP behaves strangely.
624 2010-12-01 03:52:19 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
625 2010-12-01 03:52:28 <LobsterMan> err
626 2010-12-01 03:52:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94822 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1945 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 29 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8588.89309733
627 2010-12-01 03:52:32 <theymos> It seems that connections from the outside are sometimes being dropped or delayed a lot.
628 2010-12-01 03:52:51 <denizzz> theymos: yes it is possible to connect to them but it do not reply to query
629 2010-12-01 03:53:26 <denizzz> http query I mean
630 2010-12-01 03:54:34 <genjix> http://localhost:8888/freenet:USK@QX-TZMWd80U8Qv9NHSwOiYAvuu1F6wmMntd2TVBNvzE,3h4k03gALxBp3DV2BMTGw9PQSeaKmIlLGgCHpoOFSCM,AQACAAE/test_art/1/
631 2010-12-01 03:54:40 <genjix> these are sooo cool :)
632 2010-12-01 03:55:18 <denizzz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_management_information_protocol - cmip-man
633 2010-12-01 03:55:40 <denizzz> Never seen before.
634 2010-12-01 03:59:27 <MT`AwAy> [12:52:26] <theymos> It seems that connections from the outside are sometimes being dropped or delayed a lot. <- could be the result of a (D)DoS
635 2010-12-01 04:00:16 <theymos> I don't think so. TCP packets come in fine. It just seems confused -- maybe the httpd has crashed.
636 2010-12-01 04:00:26 Lachesis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
637 2010-12-01 04:00:38 <brucewagner> nanotube: I never got your BTC address
638 2010-12-01 04:01:02 <nanotube> ;;botsnack
639 2010-12-01 04:01:02 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
640 2010-12-01 04:01:05 <nanotube> brucewagner: --^ that's mine
641 2010-12-01 04:01:28 <brucewagner> doublec: Email him and tell him to put their new address on their Donate page. (He emailed it to me. It is on http://bitcoinaddress.com if you need it. )
642 2010-12-01 04:02:38 <doublec> brucewagner, ok, thanks
643 2010-12-01 04:06:39 <brucewagner> nanotube: I added you to http://bitcoinaddress.com just now ;)
644 2010-12-01 04:07:38 <nanotube> heh cool :)
645 2010-12-01 04:09:32 <jgarzik> brucewagner: is bitcoinwatch.com on there somewhere? </plug>
646 2010-12-01 04:09:53 bertodsera has joined
647 2010-12-01 04:13:16 <brucewagner> ANOTHER WIN: I got Epic Change to accept Bitcoin donations. ( see http://bitcoinaddress.com )
648 2010-12-01 04:13:59 <doublec> how do we know the addresses associated with the organisation in that list are actually that organisation?
649 2010-12-01 04:14:31 <MT`AwAy> doublec: only possible if the organisation lists the address on their site
650 2010-12-01 04:14:35 <doublec> unless they mention it on their site, which they don't
651 2010-12-01 04:14:38 <doublec> right
652 2010-12-01 04:14:39 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
653 2010-12-01 04:15:09 <doublec> Not saying that list organiser is corrupt, but what if they person that the list organiser was liasing with to get them to accept bitcoins just posts their personal bitcoin address
654 2010-12-01 04:15:30 <brucewagner> jgarzik: BitcoinWatch.com is on the Main site... on http://bitcoinme.com under "What is a Bitcoin Worth?"
655 2010-12-01 04:15:38 <jgarzik> groovy
656 2010-12-01 04:16:40 <brucewagner> jgarzik: I put it there since it is informational... (it's not really a merchant) Wait. It accepts donations!?
657 2010-12-01 04:17:03 <jgarzik> brucewagner: donations accepted, yes
658 2010-12-01 04:17:19 <MT`AwAy> btw I'd like to confirm, bitcoin.org still down?
659 2010-12-01 04:17:38 <nanotube> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
660 2010-12-01 04:17:45 <gribble> It's not just you!
661 2010-12-01 04:17:50 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yep, still down :)
662 2010-12-01 04:17:54 <MT`AwAy> ok
663 2010-12-01 04:18:08 <brucewagner> jgarkiz: is bitcoinwatch.com a business or a non-profit ?
664 2010-12-01 04:18:10 <MT`AwAy> I'll put a forum for those who wants on a different domain, then~
665 2010-12-01 04:18:42 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, .org will probably be up "soon"...
666 2010-12-01 04:19:03 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: someone was talking of a decentralized community for a decentralized network :p
667 2010-12-01 04:19:18 <MT`AwAy> anyway we'll see
668 2010-12-01 04:21:21 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well yea... but ideally what we would have is a forum that auto-syncs between multiple servers.
669 2010-12-01 04:21:34 <nanotube> so if .org is down, people can come over to $otherserver and pick up right where they left off.
670 2010-12-01 04:21:35 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: if you have one, I'll take it
671 2010-12-01 04:21:35 <MT`AwAy> :D
672 2010-12-01 04:21:47 canadaduane has quit (Quit: canadaduane)
673 2010-12-01 04:21:54 <nanotube> then when it's back up, .org should pull data from $otherserver as well,
674 2010-12-01 04:22:10 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: hehe well, i don't. the idea requires .org forum to also sync
675 2010-12-01 04:22:32 <nanotube> if sync is one-way... then it would suck for people when .org comes back up, and it doesn't have any of the stuff they posted on otherserver.
676 2010-12-01 04:22:58 <MT`AwAy> yep
677 2010-12-01 04:23:19 <MT`AwAy> anyway I just got an empty web hosting at http://bitcoin.in/
678 2010-12-01 04:23:27 <brucewagner> Is there such an auto-mirroring software for SMF ?
679 2010-12-01 04:23:51 <jgarzik> brucewagner: bitcoinwatch is a business, I suppose
680 2010-12-01 04:24:05 <brucewagner> ok :)
681 2010-12-01 04:24:57 <brucewagner> jgarzik: Did I miss any info. I just added it to http://bitcoinaddress.com ...and it's already on the main page of http://bitcoinme.com
682 2010-12-01 04:25:41 <jgarzik> brucewagner: very groovy
683 2010-12-01 04:26:32 <brucewagner> I can donate a server and/or domain name as a mirror of the SMF forum, .org site, etc... if it would help.
684 2010-12-01 04:27:09 <brucewagner> But is there software that would auto-sync it all easily.... auto-magically...?
685 2010-12-01 04:27:29 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: rsync
686 2010-12-01 04:27:42 <MT`AwAy> for info I also got servers/domains :p
687 2010-12-01 04:27:49 <brucewagner> I suppose that would work fine, right?
688 2010-12-01 04:27:59 <brucewagner> Given the proper permissions?
689 2010-12-01 04:28:24 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: in theory, however mirroring the forum would mean - for example - that you'll know all the emails of all the members of the forum
690 2010-12-01 04:28:27 <nanotube> brucewagner: MT`AwAy: yea, but we'd have to work with whoever's managing the .org site now in order to get that working...
691 2010-12-01 04:28:57 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: in any case if we want it to sync (ie forum sync or anything), we will need help from whoever's managing the .org
692 2010-12-01 04:29:06 <brucewagner> yeah. I have no interest in knowing anyone's details.
693 2010-12-01 04:29:27 <MT`AwAy> I tried to find something for SMF, but no success yet
694 2010-12-01 04:29:36 <brucewagner> Perhaps I could even give them access to it - without having access to it myself...
695 2010-12-01 04:29:39 <bitplane> how do i force bitcoind to connect?
696 2010-12-01 04:29:42 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: you could also easily alter the local software and steal people's passwords
697 2010-12-01 04:30:09 <Foggymyst> What are the network requirements of the bitcoin client?
698 2010-12-01 04:30:17 <MT`AwAy> ie. requires a lot of trust to allow people to manage a community, not a simple question of mirroring
699 2010-12-01 04:30:25 <denizzz> http://fitnessexpertusa.com/ cool address
700 2010-12-01 04:30:42 <denizzz> (from btc list)
701 2010-12-01 04:31:05 <theymos> Syncing isn't a huge security risk if proper password hashes are being used.
702 2010-12-01 04:31:15 <brucewagner> MT`AwAy: Yes. I hear you. Well, it's up to the community. Let me know if I can help. bruce@brucewagner.com ( I gotta run out the door to dinner! :)
703 2010-12-01 04:31:19 <jgarzik> Foggymyst: not much. lots of small packets.
704 2010-12-01 04:31:24 <MT`AwAy> :)
705 2010-12-01 04:31:37 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: I'm helping too (in fact got the domain/forum set up, currently obtaining a SSL certificate)
706 2010-12-01 04:31:47 <Foggymyst> Well, what firewall rules should I make if the server is locked down?"
707 2010-12-01 04:31:55 <jgarzik> Foggymyst: it's fine behind a NAT
708 2010-12-01 04:32:09 <MT`AwAy> opening port 8333 can be a good idea
709 2010-12-01 04:32:18 <Foggymyst> Outbound 8333?
710 2010-12-01 04:32:21 <Foggymyst> Or inbound?
711 2010-12-01 04:32:22 bertodsera has joined
712 2010-12-01 04:32:26 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: both
713 2010-12-01 04:32:47 <denizzz> Foggymyst: 8 outgoing connections on 8333 port you can get in any way
714 2010-12-01 04:33:01 <Foggymyst> Great.
715 2010-12-01 04:33:04 <denizzz> but incoming 8333 port would be good to open
716 2010-12-01 04:33:52 <Kiba> is the site back up yet?
717 2010-12-01 04:34:42 <nanotube> Kiba: just check with isitdown
718 2010-12-01 04:34:47 <nanotube> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
719 2010-12-01 04:34:52 <gribble> It's not just you!
720 2010-12-01 04:35:16 <Kiba> I wanna make an epic battle graphic novel
721 2010-12-01 04:35:33 <denizzz> Has anyone been in the "diaspora"? Conveniently there? Can make a group of bitcoin users for the case of server down?
722 2010-12-01 04:35:45 <nanotube> denizzz: i'm in diaspora
723 2010-12-01 04:35:51 <nanotube> but it's currently closed for new registrations
724 2010-12-01 04:36:06 <nanotube> denizzz: are you in? wanna connect?
725 2010-12-01 04:36:30 <denizzz> nanotube: I am already obtain invite from you, I am from btcex.com :)
726 2010-12-01 04:36:43 <nanotube> denizzz: aaaah ;) cool.
727 2010-12-01 04:36:49 <nanotube> wanna connect?
728 2010-12-01 04:37:02 <nanotube> or it still has not let you in?
729 2010-12-01 04:37:24 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
730 2010-12-01 04:37:33 <bitplane> i get "bitcoin is not connected", 0 connections. can i force it to connect somehow?
731 2010-12-01 04:37:43 <Foggymyst> So why bitcoin.org down anyways?
732 2010-12-01 04:37:56 <denizzz> I think if they stall for time with the opening of registration then I am can put my diaspora server and connect to their network.
733 2010-12-01 04:38:20 <jgarzik> bitplane: it should be connecting to an IRC server, to obtain addresses of the P2P network
734 2010-12-01 04:38:21 <denizzz> Teasing is not good.
735 2010-12-01 04:38:21 <nanotube> denizzz: yea i was thinking of that, running a bitcoin diaspora pod.
736 2010-12-01 04:38:27 <Kiba> in the 22nd century, humanity and its mechanical/biomechanical offsprings had started work on a massive construction project to build dyson sphere to house and shelter the conciousness of the entire civilization
737 2010-12-01 04:38:57 <bitplane> this irc network?
738 2010-12-01 04:39:01 <Kiba> BUT, on the outset of the solar system, an invasion force had been prepared by an alien intelligent bent on....WAR
739 2010-12-01 04:39:07 <eureka^> wot
740 2010-12-01 04:39:08 <eureka^> oh
741 2010-12-01 04:39:12 <eureka^> damn highlights
742 2010-12-01 04:39:14 <denizzz> nanotube: yes, "pod". This is the same what google wave called federation server, yes?
743 2010-12-01 04:39:33 <denizzz> bitplane: FreeNode
744 2010-12-01 04:39:51 <denizzz> oops
745 2010-12-01 04:40:09 <denizzz> I think you question about THIS network:)
746 2010-12-01 04:40:34 <bitplane> so those long string names in #bitcoin, if i /whois them I can get a connection IP to put in the conf file?
747 2010-12-01 04:41:05 <denizzz> Kiba: Heinlein ?
748 2010-12-01 04:41:12 <theymos> bitplane: Bitcoin connects to #bitcoin on irc.lfnet.org. You can use the -addnode switch to connect directly to a node. -addnode=99.27.237.13 , for example, will connect to me.
749 2010-12-01 04:41:41 <nanotube> denizzz: i think so. diaspora calls them pods :)
750 2010-12-01 04:41:47 <bitplane> cool thanks I'll do that
751 2010-12-01 04:41:52 <denizzz> bitplane: IMHO, you can kickstart bitcoin client without IRC
752 2010-12-01 04:42:15 <denizzz> Need say to client IP addres of any another client
753 2010-12-01 04:42:17 <theymos> Really old versions of Bitcoin used to connect to this network, but they were getting k-lined by some nutcase and we moved to irc.lfnet.org, which is owned by a Bitcoin user.
754 2010-12-01 04:42:36 <Kiba> denizzz: know of any science fiction that called a for a dyson sphere so that an entire civilization can take immortality to the next level.....BUT first they must overcome an enemy bent on wars just for the heck of it?
755 2010-12-01 04:42:40 bertodsera has joined
756 2010-12-01 04:43:08 <bitplane> done, it's connected via theymos. thanks :)
757 2010-12-01 04:43:24 <bitplane> what's the incoming port ID so I can open it on my router?
758 2010-12-01 04:43:31 <theymos> 8333
759 2010-12-01 04:44:05 <denizzz> Kiba: What do you mean?
760 2010-12-01 04:44:07 <bitplane> thanks
761 2010-12-01 04:44:15 <Kiba> denizzz: a plot
762 2010-12-01 04:44:17 <Kiba> like that
763 2010-12-01 04:44:34 <Kiba> dyson sphere's purpose is to store and shelter an entire civilization's conciousness
764 2010-12-01 04:44:46 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
765 2010-12-01 04:44:48 <jgarzik> immortality is taken to the next level by a fancy vacuum cleaner?
766 2010-12-01 04:45:12 <bitplane> dyson clouds are more likely IMHO
767 2010-12-01 04:45:21 <MT`AwAy> ok, got a ssl certificate
768 2010-12-01 04:45:39 <denizzz> Kiba: you have to use simple english to tell me what you mean. I can understand the language but I do not know the cultural context, so I do not understand what you mean.
769 2010-12-01 04:46:02 <Kiba> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dyson_sphere
770 2010-12-01 04:47:13 <bitplane> what do "blocks" represent? are they transactions?
771 2010-12-01 04:48:17 <Foggymyst> What is currently most needed in the BitCoin ecosphere / community / technology stack?
772 2010-12-01 04:48:23 <theymos> Blocks, and some other data. Check out http://blockexplorer.com
773 2010-12-01 04:48:34 <theymos> Transactions, and some other data, I mean.
774 2010-12-01 04:48:57 denizzz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
775 2010-12-01 04:49:16 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, more money launderers
776 2010-12-01 04:49:22 <bitplane> so that's the entire history for the network? won't that become rather excessive in a few years?
777 2010-12-01 04:49:27 <bitplane> or if it becomes popular
778 2010-12-01 04:49:39 <theymos> bitplane: Only generators need to download it, and spent transactions can be forgotten.
779 2010-12-01 04:50:01 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, are you being serious?
780 2010-12-01 04:50:12 bertodsera has joined
781 2010-12-01 04:50:23 <theymos> It's expected that there will be only a few hundred generators in the future, and they will be really powerful.
782 2010-12-01 04:50:27 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, absolutely
783 2010-12-01 04:50:31 <Kiba> theymos: so why we are not forgetting transaction now?
784 2010-12-01 04:50:49 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, so what do you mean by launderers?
785 2010-12-01 04:50:55 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, but probably better to call them moeny exchangers or something more pc
786 2010-12-01 04:51:01 <theymos> Then I couldn't provide a complete Block Explorer... (Probably for possible debugging.)
787 2010-12-01 04:51:06 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, that was what I was going to say.
788 2010-12-01 04:51:13 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
789 2010-12-01 04:51:18 <gribble> It's not just you!
790 2010-12-01 04:51:29 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, so if I was going to exchange bitcoins for cash I would need an initial amount.
791 2010-12-01 04:51:33 <Kiba> BITCH
792 2010-12-01 04:51:40 <Kiba> SIRUS! WHERE THE FRACK YOU ARE?
793 2010-12-01 04:52:12 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 400
794 2010-12-01 04:52:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 years, 39 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes, and 21 seconds
795 2010-12-01 04:52:22 <bitplane> lol wut
796 2010-12-01 04:52:44 <doublec> generating on a vps is not likely to make you much
797 2010-12-01 04:52:53 <bitplane> this is my crappy laptop
798 2010-12-01 04:52:56 <theymos> Generating is only profitable if you use a GPU.
799 2010-12-01 04:53:10 <Kiba> we need pooled mining!
800 2010-12-01 04:53:16 <doublec> we have one!
801 2010-12-01 04:53:18 <Foggymyst> Kiba, seriously.
802 2010-12-01 04:53:23 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, the problem is finding ways people can get USD and other hard currency to somebody who wants to sell bitcoins
803 2010-12-01 04:53:44 <doublec> currently 21 people connected to my pooled server
804 2010-12-01 04:53:53 <Foggymyst> Doublec, how do you pool?
805 2010-12-01 04:53:58 denizzz has joined
806 2010-12-01 04:54:04 <doublec> Foggymyst, using puddinpop's pooled server and client
807 2010-12-01 04:54:06 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, because all other payment methods can be charged back, correct?
808 2010-12-01 04:54:22 <theymos> Foggymyst: I would like a site that allows you to find an exchanger near you, and also list yourself as an exchanger. Then everyone can exchange with everyone.
809 2010-12-01 04:54:24 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
810 2010-12-01 04:54:36 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, that's the main one
811 2010-12-01 04:54:36 <denizzz> carramba
812 2010-12-01 04:54:44 <denizzz> nanotube: What do you think about future of the diaspora? Technically, it seems that it can kill facebook?
813 2010-12-01 04:55:03 <Foggymyst> Doublec, since bitcoin.org is down do you know a location to get the pooled server bins?
814 2010-12-01 04:55:04 <Kiba> Zukernberg donated 200,000 dollars, no?
815 2010-12-01 04:55:09 <doublec> Foggymyst, what platform?
816 2010-12-01 04:55:10 <bd_> denizzz: it won't. facebook's advantage isn't infrastructure or features. It's the userbase.
817 2010-12-01 04:55:19 <Foggymyst> Doublec, Win x64
818 2010-12-01 04:55:28 <nanotube> denizzz: too early to tell. definitely won't 'kill', but it may become a good alternative. :)
819 2010-12-01 04:56:03 <doublec> Foggymyst, http://cd.pn/bitcoin-remote-20101127-win32bin.zip
820 2010-12-01 04:56:04 <MT`AwAy> mh
821 2010-12-01 04:56:18 <Foggymyst> Thanks
822 2010-12-01 04:56:19 <doublec> Foggymyst, to connect to my server if you want to test the remote miner client:
823 2010-12-01 04:56:19 <Kiba> facebook got hundred of programmers don't they?
824 2010-12-01 04:56:29 <denizzz> I am don't use any social networks because they do not allow users to set permissions or ACLs :)
825 2010-12-01 04:56:30 <Kiba> you got 3 dudes who are changing the wrold?
826 2010-12-01 04:56:48 <denizzz> And I am want for diaspora solve my problem
827 2010-12-01 04:57:00 <doublec> Foggymyst, remoteminer -server 69.164.214.82 -address bitcoin_address_to_send_coins_to
828 2010-12-01 04:57:19 <nanotube> denizzz: yea, diaspora will attract the privacy-conscious. :) i hope it'll become good.
829 2010-12-01 04:57:53 <denizzz> Kiba: Probably, facebook code is a php spaghetti code
830 2010-12-01 04:57:57 <theymos> doublec: When the pool generates a block, do you send a share to people who mined for a few days and then left forever?
831 2010-12-01 04:58:12 <doublec> theymos, it distributes only to those who participated in generating that block
832 2010-12-01 04:58:49 <[Noodles]> but its CPU only so far, isn't it?
833 2010-12-01 04:58:55 <Kiba> how do they know if you actually crunching?
834 2010-12-01 04:58:56 <doublec> [Noodles], yes
835 2010-12-01 04:59:20 <doublec> [Noodles], I'm looking at doing an OpenCL client (or modifying an existing one)
836 2010-12-01 04:59:43 <doublec> Kiba, the server knows who is connected and what they are contributing
837 2010-12-01 05:00:11 <doublec> there's a discussion thread in the (currently down) forums about the approach
838 2010-12-01 05:00:14 <[Noodles]> iv got both, ATI and Nvidia running, call me if you need a tester ^.^
839 2010-12-01 05:00:17 <bitplane> some theoretical situations: what happens if people lose their wallets, yet millions of transactions are in those accounts?
840 2010-12-01 05:00:22 <doublec> [Noodles], will do!
841 2010-12-01 05:00:30 <[Noodles]> on win x64 though
842 2010-12-01 05:00:35 <nanotube> bitplane: those bitcoins will be gone for good, then.
843 2010-12-01 05:00:43 <doublec> I don't have a gpu so I'll be testing the opencl stuff using intel's x86 opencl sdk
844 2010-12-01 05:00:49 <bitplane> but the generators need to track those forever?
845 2010-12-01 05:01:37 <bitplane> also what happens if I make a worm that generates blocks? who can stop/punish me or find out who I am?
846 2010-12-01 05:01:39 <[Noodles]> generators wont know, if a wallet is lost, or just offline
847 2010-12-01 05:01:59 <MT`AwAy> bitplane: your blocks won't be accepted
848 2010-12-01 05:02:00 <nanotube> bitplane: same as you make a worm that does something else...
849 2010-12-01 05:02:02 <Kiba> I wanna make a Thai tea brewing machine :D
850 2010-12-01 05:02:12 <bitplane> accepted by who?
851 2010-12-01 05:02:13 bertodsera has joined
852 2010-12-01 05:02:22 <bitplane> if they're valid they're valid right?
853 2010-12-01 05:02:27 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
854 2010-12-01 05:02:28 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, if he makes a worm that 'borgs' unsuspecting computers into generating for him... it would make valid blocks
855 2010-12-01 05:02:33 <gribble> It's not just you!
856 2010-12-01 05:02:41 * Kiba strangles gribble
857 2010-12-01 05:02:51 <nanotube> Kiba: strangle bitcoin.org. it's not gribble's fault. :P
858 2010-12-01 05:03:10 <Kiba> I was just shooting the message, nanotube
859 2010-12-01 05:03:11 <dwdollar1> sirius-m is MIA
860 2010-12-01 05:03:19 <nanotube> mmm
861 2010-12-01 05:03:34 <Kiba> when sirius last spoke?
862 2010-12-01 05:03:36 <nanotube> well, we have our irc :)
863 2010-12-01 05:03:43 <dwdollar1> Sirius_: are you are there?
864 2010-12-01 05:03:51 <nanotube> ;;seen Sirius_
865 2010-12-01 05:03:51 <gribble> Sirius_ was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Sirius_> https://www.op.fi/media/liitteet?cid=151240134&srcpl=4 example message starting from page 12
866 2010-12-01 05:04:00 <nanotube> heh
867 2010-12-01 05:04:06 <Kiba> ;;seen Satoshi
868 2010-12-01 05:04:06 <gribble> I have not seen Satoshi.
869 2010-12-01 05:04:07 <nanotube> maybe he's been on with a different nick too
870 2010-12-01 05:04:12 <Kiba> DAMN.
871 2010-12-01 05:04:17 gekko_ has joined
872 2010-12-01 05:04:37 <bitplane> is that the website admin?
873 2010-12-01 05:04:46 <doublec> we should change the topic to say, yes, bitcoin.org is down, thanks for asking
874 2010-12-01 05:04:47 <nanotube> bitplane: presumably :)
875 2010-12-01 05:04:56 <doublec> and while we're at it, update it to say 0.3.17 is released
876 2010-12-01 05:05:04 <nanotube> doublec: haha well, the only person who can do that seems to be away atm
877 2010-12-01 05:05:15 <doublec> nanotube, probably working on getting bitcoin.org up ;)
878 2010-12-01 05:05:20 <bitplane> i recommend using sf for hosting, although slow and a bit crap it's bigger than one person
879 2010-12-01 05:05:26 dwdollar1 is now known as dwdollar
880 2010-12-01 05:05:36 <nanotube> bitplane: i just suggested the same thing earlier :)
881 2010-12-01 05:05:43 <Kiba> what we should do is setup federated hosting for bitcoin
882 2010-12-01 05:05:48 <nanotube> they have large capacity.
883 2010-12-01 05:05:50 <MT`AwAy> https://bitcoin.in/forum/ <- for those who want I've just setup a board on a ssl domain quickly (if you are interested, tell me what kind of boards you need)
884 2010-12-01 05:06:19 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
885 2010-12-01 05:06:30 <Kiba> The way of the wusses
886 2010-12-01 05:07:00 <Kiba> while we're at it, let make a bitDNS!
887 2010-12-01 05:07:04 <Kiba> I pledge 5 BTC
888 2010-12-01 05:07:19 <Kiba> total expense nearly a dollar today
889 2010-12-01 05:07:25 <Kiba> err
890 2010-12-01 05:07:31 <Kiba> projectwonderful's expense nearly a dollar today
891 2010-12-01 05:07:36 <Kiba> nope.
892 2010-12-01 05:07:39 <Kiba> just .23
893 2010-12-01 05:07:41 <nanotube> i did some googling, there doesn't seem to be a distributed forum... but we could just go for usenet.
894 2010-12-01 05:07:49 <Kiba> 11 clicks, .18%
895 2010-12-01 05:08:03 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
896 2010-12-01 05:08:03 <doublec> google groups maybe
897 2010-12-01 05:08:08 <nanotube> is there a bitcoin usenet group?
898 2010-12-01 05:08:15 <Kiba> nanotube: how easy do you think to extract forum username, password, and post?
899 2010-12-01 05:08:30 <nanotube> Kiba: extract from where?
900 2010-12-01 05:08:35 <Kiba> the forum database
901 2010-12-01 05:08:45 <bitplane> password from smf?
902 2010-12-01 05:08:47 <nanotube> if you had access to the database - easy :)
903 2010-12-01 05:08:50 <Kiba> if we're going to move to a distributed forum system
904 2010-12-01 05:08:56 <bitplane> should be salted shouldn't it?
905 2010-12-01 05:09:09 <nanotube> yes, we can move the salted pwds around, though.
906 2010-12-01 05:09:23 <nanotube> we don't need to move the cleartext
907 2010-12-01 05:10:11 <Kiba> distributed forum...and passwords..
908 2010-12-01 05:10:11 <theymos> Xunie: You there?
909 2010-12-01 05:11:01 <Kiba> it would be an interesting project to work on, nanotube
910 2010-12-01 05:11:10 <MT`AwAy> [14:08:09] <Kiba> nanotube: how easy do you think to extract forum username, password, and post? <- problem is sync should work both ways, what do you do if you have same login on both forums, but not same email/pass ?
911 2010-12-01 05:11:29 bertodsera has joined
912 2010-12-01 05:11:30 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yes, sync should work both ways. :)
913 2010-12-01 05:11:56 <Kiba> each server would have its own copy of database?
914 2010-12-01 05:12:03 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: that's the idea
915 2010-12-01 05:12:20 <Kiba> you could have one server manages registration
916 2010-12-01 05:12:48 <Kiba> and if that server goes down, it will switch to another server
917 2010-12-01 05:13:05 <bitplane> simple solution: create a backup job that writes to incremental .sql files, tgz them, encrypt them, then rsync that directory off to several other untrusted servers
918 2010-12-01 05:13:46 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
919 2010-12-01 05:13:52 <bitplane> if things break, you have multiple backups and a small number of trusted community elders have the keys to unlock the database
920 2010-12-01 05:13:53 <Kiba> which is all well until the server is fried.. It's backed up but we have no where to communicate
921 2010-12-01 05:14:14 <theymos> We seem to be communicating right now...
922 2010-12-01 05:14:24 <Kiba> well...
923 2010-12-01 05:14:27 <Kiba> that's not what I mena
924 2010-12-01 05:14:33 <nanotube> haha
925 2010-12-01 05:14:40 <theymos> If bitcoin.org needs to move permanantly, Satoshi can issue a network alert.
926 2010-12-01 05:14:44 <bitplane> hrm in that case yeah, you'd need a failover node
927 2010-12-01 05:15:24 <nanotube> i have just created http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoin-discussion
928 2010-12-01 05:15:30 <nanotube> anyone who cares to, feel free to join :)
929 2010-12-01 05:15:47 <MT`AwAy> for info my web hosting is failover, if a node goes down, the sites hosted there are hosted from another node automatically (using realtime filesystem/sql backups)
930 2010-12-01 05:15:48 <Kiba> so this bitDNS idea...
931 2010-12-01 05:15:51 <Foggymyst> Heh, where is the main forum for discussion going to be?
932 2010-12-01 05:16:41 <Foggymyst> It seems like google or some reliable third party would be the best solution
933 2010-12-01 05:16:48 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: what about https://bitcoin.in/forum/ ?
934 2010-12-01 05:17:03 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 900
935 2010-12-01 05:17:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 900 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 11 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes, and 49 seconds
936 2010-12-01 05:17:05 <Foggymyst> That site is not available for me.
937 2010-12-01 05:17:16 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: i see you joined - nice. :)
938 2010-12-01 05:17:17 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 300
939 2010-12-01 05:17:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 years, 34 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 32 minutes, and 28 seconds
940 2010-12-01 05:17:38 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: and you left... heh
941 2010-12-01 05:17:50 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 5000
942 2010-12-01 05:17:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 11 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 31 minutes, and 56 seconds
943 2010-12-01 05:18:01 <theymos> bitplane: Odds are better than the lottery, at least.
944 2010-12-01 05:18:04 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: ?
945 2010-12-01 05:18:13 <MT`AwAy> I didn't leave
946 2010-12-01 05:18:23 <nanotube> oh it shows one member... maybe bug? let me refresh
947 2010-12-01 05:18:27 <bitplane> let's try 10m!
948 2010-12-01 05:18:31 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 10000
949 2010-12-01 05:18:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes, and 58 seconds
950 2010-12-01 05:18:32 <MT`AwAy> I see 3
951 2010-12-01 05:18:36 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: oh there you are. and Foggymyst :)
952 2010-12-01 05:18:41 <nanotube> great. we're moving right along. :)
953 2010-12-01 05:18:41 <Foggymyst> How many coins does one block give?
954 2010-12-01 05:18:48 <theymos> Foggymyst: 50
955 2010-12-01 05:18:48 <bitplane> 50 apparently
956 2010-12-01 05:18:48 <nanotube> doublec: feel free to join the googlegroup :)
957 2010-12-01 05:18:52 <nanotube> Foggymyst: currently 50
958 2010-12-01 05:18:53 <Foggymyst> Ah, ok.
959 2010-12-01 05:19:00 <Foggymyst> Thank you.
960 2010-12-01 05:19:11 <theymos> bitplane: ArtForz has 8 Gh/s.
961 2010-12-01 05:19:12 <Foggymyst> nanotube: I just want a place to discuss bitcoin that is simple and reliable.
962 2010-12-01 05:19:31 <bitplane> how fast is the GPU client?
963 2010-12-01 05:19:34 <nanotube> Foggymyst: well, irc is one such place ;) i hope the google group will become good for that as well.
964 2010-12-01 05:19:36 <Foggymyst> theymos: Is that a record?
965 2010-12-01 05:19:38 <nanotube> bitplane: depends on your gpu.
966 2010-12-01 05:19:49 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 75000000
967 2010-12-01 05:19:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 7 minutes and 42 seconds
968 2010-12-01 05:20:00 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 70000000
969 2010-12-01 05:20:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 70000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 8 minutes and 15 seconds
970 2010-12-01 05:20:02 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: for info on bitcoin.in I'm forcing SSL
971 2010-12-01 05:20:08 <theymos> Foggymyst: He has more than anyone, if that's what you mean. He has lots of GPUs.
972 2010-12-01 05:20:24 <Foggymyst> What is a Gh/s?
973 2010-12-01 05:20:26 <denizzz> <Kiba> nanotube: how easy do you think to extract forum username, password, and post?
974 2010-12-01 05:20:29 <nanotube> m, so average hash power of the network was about 60ghps
975 2010-12-01 05:20:37 <nanotube> Foggymyst: giga hash per second
976 2010-12-01 05:20:43 <Kiba> denizzz: what about it?
977 2010-12-01 05:20:47 <denizzz> username and password should be stored in krb5 key server
978 2010-12-01 05:20:56 <Kiba> what da?
979 2010-12-01 05:21:00 <MT`AwAy> lol
980 2010-12-01 05:21:11 <denizzz> and any number of forums, pop3 servers, http cabinets may be connected to them
981 2010-12-01 05:21:25 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 8000000
982 2010-12-01 05:21:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 hour, 12 minutes, and 16 seconds
983 2010-12-01 05:21:26 <Foggymyst> so a gigahash is a billion hash a second?
984 2010-12-01 05:21:27 <bitplane> so... who's using a GPU client, and how fast is it going?
985 2010-12-01 05:21:36 <jgarzik> many. fast.
986 2010-12-01 05:21:37 <nanotube> Foggymyst: yes
987 2010-12-01 05:21:41 <Foggymyst> Curious.
988 2010-12-01 05:21:42 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: 1Gh/s = 1000Mh/s
989 2010-12-01 05:21:44 <denizzz> Or are you talking about?
990 2010-12-01 05:21:54 <nanotube> bitplane: depends on gpu. an ati 5970 can do 600mhps or so.
991 2010-12-01 05:22:10 <bitplane> wow nice
992 2010-12-01 05:22:12 <[Noodles]> my HD5850 does ~300Mhs
993 2010-12-01 05:22:13 <doublec> nanotube, what's the link to the group?
994 2010-12-01 05:22:20 <denizzz> Can someone owns a computer parts warehouse?
995 2010-12-01 05:22:30 <nanotube> denizzz: http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoin-discussion
996 2010-12-01 05:22:30 <denizzz> with many motherboards and GPUs?
997 2010-12-01 05:22:40 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 22000
998 2010-12-01 05:22:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 22000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 32 seconds
999 2010-12-01 05:22:54 <denizzz> nanotube: google is evil!
1000 2010-12-01 05:23:05 <Kiba> evil? You're evil!
1001 2010-12-01 05:23:12 <Foggymyst> nanotube: Where is the GPU binary?
1002 2010-12-01 05:23:15 <denizzz> Kiba: why?
1003 2010-12-01 05:23:18 <nanotube> denizzz: it has its bad sides... but it sure is fast and has nice uptime. :)
1004 2010-12-01 05:23:24 * Kiba is being irrevelant
1005 2010-12-01 05:23:38 <nanotube> Foggymyst: there are a couple github repositories with a couple miners. there's m0mchil and diablo
1006 2010-12-01 05:23:39 <doublec> 22000 khash is what the pooled miner is currently doing
1007 2010-12-01 05:23:43 <nanotube> try googling, since forum is down :)
1008 2010-12-01 05:23:51 <nanotube> doublec: oh pretty nice :)
1009 2010-12-01 05:24:08 <denizzz> nanotube: One day it will break and the whole world will howl!
1010 2010-12-01 05:24:24 <MT`AwAy> my miner on 6 servers is doing 35Mh/s
1011 2010-12-01 05:24:26 <nanotube> denizzz: well, when it does, others will pick up.
1012 2010-12-01 05:24:46 <doublec> it peaked at 60,000 but some people have left
1013 2010-12-01 05:25:02 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 60000
1014 2010-12-01 05:25:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 60000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 6 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes, and 39 seconds
1015 2010-12-01 05:25:06 <nanotube> doublec: you should set up a webpage for your pooled miner. :)
1016 2010-12-01 05:25:12 <doublec> nanotube, good idea!
1017 2010-12-01 05:25:34 <nanotube> it would have links to the source/binaries, some simple howtos, etc.
1018 2010-12-01 05:25:37 <nanotube> that'd get more people in
1019 2010-12-01 05:25:38 <doublec> and do a javascript remote client so people visiting the page contribute khashs ;)
1020 2010-12-01 05:25:40 <theymos> doublec: Is there a standalone miner so I don't have to replace my trusted Bitcoin with an untrusted version?
1021 2010-12-01 05:25:43 <nanotube> doublec: haha
1022 2010-12-01 05:25:57 <doublec> theymos, yes the remote miner is standalone
1023 2010-12-01 05:25:58 <bitplane> can the gpu and cpu clients run together on the same host?
1024 2010-12-01 05:26:03 <MT`AwAy> theymos: 0.3.17 contains getwork
1025 2010-12-01 05:26:06 <doublec> it doesn't touch your wallet or existing bitcoin daemon
1026 2010-12-01 05:26:11 <Kiba> theymos: have you ever received a reply from Satoshi ever?
1027 2010-12-01 05:26:17 <theymos> Kiba: yes.
1028 2010-12-01 05:26:26 <Kiba> cool
1029 2010-12-01 05:26:44 <Kiba> any reply on the server issue?
1030 2010-12-01 05:26:57 <theymos> doublec: Remoteminer.exe uses CPU? I dont' have a suitible GPU.
1031 2010-12-01 05:27:05 <doublec> theymos, yes it uses cpu only
1032 2010-12-01 05:28:52 <doublec> theymos, remoteminer.exe -address <your bitcoin address> -server 69.164.214.82
1033 2010-12-01 05:28:54 <doublec> to connect to the pool
1034 2010-12-01 05:29:08 <bitplane> haha, oh wow.. i just had a crazy idea
1035 2010-12-01 05:29:17 <MT`AwAy> bitplane: ?
1036 2010-12-01 05:29:27 <bitplane> does webgl support shaders?
1037 2010-12-01 05:29:34 <doublec> yes it does
1038 2010-12-01 05:29:40 <Foggymyst> who is the server?
1039 2010-12-01 05:29:49 <bitplane> i wonder if you could have a pixel on websites that generates hashes
1040 2010-12-01 05:29:55 <doublec> Foggymyst, the server is running on my vps
1041 2010-12-01 05:30:05 <Foggymyst> doublec: VPS?
1042 2010-12-01 05:30:12 <doublec> Virtual Private Server
1043 2010-12-01 05:30:18 <Foggymyst> Ah, roger.
1044 2010-12-01 05:30:58 <doublec> bitplane, there's been some discussion about supporting opencl in the browser
1045 2010-12-01 05:31:06 <bitplane> hmm or a flash client that somehow raeps video cards
1046 2010-12-01 05:31:39 <Foggymyst> doublec: And where do you get a copy of the remoteserver?
1047 2010-12-01 05:31:51 <bitplane> no hw acceleration in flash apart from video though, so may mean cleverly manipulating pixels in some way
1048 2010-12-01 05:32:09 <doublec> Foggymyst, the binary is in that archive I linked earlier
1049 2010-12-01 05:32:11 <theymos> doublec: Your pool has my amazing 800 kh/s now! A "minimize to tray" option would be nice.
1050 2010-12-01 05:32:17 <doublec> Foggymyst, just run bitcoind
1051 2010-12-01 05:32:22 <doublec> theymos, thanks :)
1052 2010-12-01 05:32:36 <Foggymyst> doublec: Ahhh, thank you for the explantion.
1053 2010-12-01 05:32:39 <doublec> 800-1000 seems to be the average contribution
1054 2010-12-01 05:32:45 <doublec> Foggymyst, do you want the link to the source?
1055 2010-12-01 05:32:49 <nanotube> bitplane: haha, flash /already/ rapes video cards. nothing new there :D
1056 2010-12-01 05:32:57 <Foggymyst> Sure
1057 2010-12-01 05:33:17 <doublec> Foggymyst, http://cd.pn/bitcoin-remote-20101127-src.zip
1058 2010-12-01 05:33:33 <doublec> Foggymyst, that's the original source from the forum post by puddinpop
1059 2010-12-01 05:33:42 <doublec> it needs some tweaks to build
1060 2010-12-01 05:34:49 <nanotube> doublec: make a github repo! :)
1061 2010-12-01 05:35:02 <doublec> nanotube, when the forum's come up I'll ask puddinpop about it
1062 2010-12-01 05:35:03 <Kiba> The Rape of GPU
1063 2010-12-01 05:35:04 <bitplane> crazier idea: an iPhone / Android client which you put into a really cool and completely free game
1064 2010-12-01 05:35:25 <bitplane> get 1M+ active users and harvest their CPUs
1065 2010-12-01 05:35:44 <nanotube> doublec: does puddinpop have a git repo of this himself somewhere?
1066 2010-12-01 05:35:51 <doublec> it would probably be better long term to write a pooled miner based on getwork so no changes need to be made to the bitcoin server
1067 2010-12-01 05:35:56 <doublec> nanotube, not that I know of
1068 2010-12-01 05:35:56 CyanDynamo has joined
1069 2010-12-01 05:36:07 <denizzz> What GPU is most profitable for generation?
1070 2010-12-01 05:36:11 <nanotube> doublec: mm ic... well iirc he does show up on irc here once in a while as well.
1071 2010-12-01 05:36:18 <Kiba> 5970s?
1072 2010-12-01 05:36:22 <denizzz> I'm ready to go to the store right now
1073 2010-12-01 05:36:53 <bitplane> I already have 16,000 active Android devices running my software
1074 2010-12-01 05:36:55 <nanotube> denizzz: cost per Mhps is possibly 5770. max total mhps is probably 5970. iirc. best to double-check with people who run the gen.
1075 2010-12-01 05:36:57 <denizzz> what about CUDA?
1076 2010-12-01 05:37:11 <[Noodles]> forget about cuda
1077 2010-12-01 05:37:11 <nanotube> denizzz: nvidia's integer performance is much worse than ati.
1078 2010-12-01 05:37:34 <denizzz> heh... ati do not like linux x11
1079 2010-12-01 05:37:47 <Kiba> someday, ATI will notice a million dollars of sale comes from GPU units..
1080 2010-12-01 05:37:48 <[Noodles]> if its for mining coins, go for ati
1081 2010-12-01 05:37:49 <Kiba> err
1082 2010-12-01 05:37:54 <Kiba> bitcoin mining
1083 2010-12-01 05:39:26 <denizzz> $617 2Gb <PCI-E> DDR-5 Sapphire <ATI RADEON HD5970> (RTL) DualDVI+MiniDP+Crossfire
1084 2010-12-01 05:39:27 bertodsera has joined
1085 2010-12-01 05:39:45 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1086 2010-12-01 05:39:48 <denizzz> This will never pay for itself I think :)
1087 2010-12-01 05:40:09 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 600000
1088 2010-12-01 05:40:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 16 hours, 3 minutes, and 45 seconds
1089 2010-12-01 05:40:22 <[Noodles]> gtx260 ~45Mhs@100Watt, HD5570 ~64Mhs@50Watt
1090 2010-12-01 05:40:22 <CyanDynamo> getting a new gpu just for bitcoin is foolish, i think
1091 2010-12-01 05:40:38 <nanotube> denizzz: with a 5970, you get about 600mhps, which gives you a block every 16 hours or so.
1092 2010-12-01 05:40:45 gekko_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1093 2010-12-01 05:40:48 <denizzz> 50 BTC = $10, yes?
1094 2010-12-01 05:41:06 bertodsera has joined
1095 2010-12-01 05:41:10 <nanotube> yes, $11, at current mtgox price. was $14 just yesterday hehe
1096 2010-12-01 05:41:25 <Kiba> mtgox should like to functulate a lot
1097 2010-12-01 05:41:30 <nanotube> so you need about 61 blocks to make the 610 bucks back.
1098 2010-12-01 05:41:39 <nanotube> ;;math calc 61*16/24
1099 2010-12-01 05:41:39 <gribble> 40.6666666667
1100 2010-12-01 05:41:48 <nanotube> so 40 days to make the $600 back
1101 2010-12-01 05:41:55 <nanotube> assuming price, and difficulty, stays the same.
1102 2010-12-01 05:42:17 <djoot> and assumption, as we all know, is the brother of all fuckups
1103 2010-12-01 05:42:21 <nanotube> 1.3 months - not too bad.
1104 2010-12-01 05:42:41 <Kiba> ArtForz obviously want higher price
1105 2010-12-01 05:42:41 <nanotube> djoot: haha true. price could go up next week, and it could drop down to 15 days haha
1106 2010-12-01 05:42:56 <Kiba> but he's too lazy to spend anything on the bitcoin economy
1107 2010-12-01 05:43:21 <nanotube> Kiba: you mean, $20k usd worth of hardware is not enough of a spending on bitcoin economy? ...
1108 2010-12-01 05:43:43 <bitplane> how much in electricity bill for running it for 40 days?
1109 2010-12-01 05:43:54 <nanotube> bitplane: depends on what your price per kwh is
1110 2010-12-01 05:44:02 <Kiba> he's depressing the price
1111 2010-12-01 05:44:30 <Foggymyst> Is there a Windows binary for GPU processing?
1112 2010-12-01 05:44:35 <Foggymyst> I ask about binaries a lot. ;)
1113 2010-12-01 05:44:46 <nanotube> iirc there was posted on the forum... which is down...
1114 2010-12-01 05:45:09 <djoot> I had free electricity until a few months back, too bad I had to move...
1115 2010-12-01 05:45:15 <nanotube> heh
1116 2010-12-01 05:45:23 <jgarzik> go solar :)
1117 2010-12-01 05:45:40 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1118 2010-12-01 05:46:19 <Foggymyst> Man, the forum being down is a pain in the ass. =)
1119 2010-12-01 05:46:30 <nanotube> jgarzik: hehe yea. but that still has a cost - if you aren't using it, you'd be pushing it back to the grid and getting $$
1120 2010-12-01 05:46:55 <Kiba> if the forum isn't down, I'll have the most posts of any forum members
1121 2010-12-01 05:47:10 <jgarzik> $595 for Kyocera 235W, 7.89A, 29.8V
1122 2010-12-01 05:47:20 <Kiba> and November forum records will be even harder to break
1123 2010-12-01 05:47:29 <bitplane> ;; math calc 16 *600000*3600
1124 2010-12-01 05:47:29 <gribble> 34560000000
1125 2010-12-01 05:48:03 <bitplane> ;; math calc 34560000000 / 16000
1126 2010-12-01 05:48:03 <gribble> 2160000
1127 2010-12-01 05:48:38 <nanotube> bitplane: what are you trying to find?
1128 2010-12-01 05:48:38 <[Noodles]> Foggymyst: here's a mirror of m0mchil's OpenCL win-binary http://bitlex.co.cc/files/, source is https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm
1129 2010-12-01 05:48:52 <bitplane> I have 16,000 android devices running my code
1130 2010-12-01 05:49:10 <[Noodles]> and it's http://bitlex.co.cc/files/poclbm_py2exe_20101126.7z
1131 2010-12-01 05:49:16 <nanotube> ah... how much hps do you think an android can do?
1132 2010-12-01 05:49:19 <bitplane> mostly my apps run for a couple of mins at a time
1133 2010-12-01 05:49:20 <Kiba> bitplane: what your android app do?
1134 2010-12-01 05:49:31 <nanotube> (and how much do you think the users will appreciate their battery being drained :) )
1135 2010-12-01 05:49:38 <bitplane> main one is a weather app, 11,000 users
1136 2010-12-01 05:49:44 <Kiba> dpm
1137 2010-12-01 05:49:51 <Kiba> t drain your user's battery
1138 2010-12-01 05:49:54 <bitplane> exactly... how many hashes is a reasonable number
1139 2010-12-01 05:50:00 <Kiba> if I were me, I would make bitcoin as a micropayment...
1140 2010-12-01 05:50:11 <Kiba> system for a game
1141 2010-12-01 05:50:36 <bitplane> that's my thinking, I could calculate aggressively on phones which are charging
1142 2010-12-01 05:50:44 <nanotube> dunno... what kind of cpu is there in an android? as an out-of-my-behind estimate, you could probably get like 50khps or something on one
1143 2010-12-01 05:51:09 bertodsera has joined
1144 2010-12-01 05:51:13 <Kiba> PITIFUL
1145 2010-12-01 05:51:14 <bitplane> mine has a 1ghz snapdragon
1146 2010-12-01 05:51:28 <Kiba> forgetitaboutit
1147 2010-12-01 05:51:35 <nanotube> bitplane: well, maybe 150 khps then :)
1148 2010-12-01 05:51:47 <nanotube> my 1.6ghz netbook does about 400
1149 2010-12-01 05:52:07 <[Noodles]> my 1GHz PIII does 250
1150 2010-12-01 05:52:07 <nanotube> but i dunno anything about smartphone cpus...
1151 2010-12-01 05:52:18 <bitplane> 10 seconds each for 11,000 users, maybe launched once a day each?
1152 2010-12-01 05:53:06 <bitplane> or make a quality free game
1153 2010-12-01 05:53:20 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1154 2010-12-01 05:53:56 <nanotube> bitplane: well... 86400 seconds in a day... and your userbase generates for 110000 seconds a day total
1155 2010-12-01 05:54:09 <bitplane> at 10 seconds a day I'd need 8,640 users to get a day's worth
1156 2010-12-01 05:54:15 <theymos> You might make "drains CPU power" an alternative to paying for an app.
1157 2010-12-01 05:54:52 <bitplane> but say it was a popular game with 100,000 users who expect the battery drain, and it was addictive enough so people played it regularly
1158 2010-12-01 05:54:53 <nanotube> so if the average smartphone does (generously speaking) 200 khps... your userbase is equivalent to 110000/86400*200 continuous khps
1159 2010-12-01 05:55:01 <nanotube> ;;math calc 110000/86400*200
1160 2010-12-01 05:55:01 <gribble> 254.62962963
1161 2010-12-01 05:55:19 <nanotube> so your total smartphone userbase will give you the equivalent of 254 khps
1162 2010-12-01 05:55:23 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 254
1163 2010-12-01 05:55:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 254 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 years, 17 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 33 minutes, and 9 seconds
1164 2010-12-01 05:55:31 <nanotube> haha
1165 2010-12-01 05:55:38 <nanotube> so not worth it. so not worth it.
1166 2010-12-01 05:55:38 <Kiba> forgetitaboutit!
1167 2010-12-01 05:55:48 <bitplane> current total users. i only developed apps for 4 weeks a few months back
1168 2010-12-01 05:55:55 <Kiba> you could make your users pay for game objects in bitcoin
1169 2010-12-01 05:55:56 <bitplane> http://bitplane.net/projects/android/
1170 2010-12-01 05:56:07 brucewagner_ has joined
1171 2010-12-01 05:56:07 bertodsera has joined
1172 2010-12-01 05:56:27 <nanotube> bitplane: if you could generate continously when phone is charging, maybe you can have 8hr/day generation per unit
1173 2010-12-01 05:56:51 <bitplane> hehe that would be evil behaviour, I wouldn't do that
1174 2010-12-01 05:57:06 <nanotube> 28800 seconds per day per unit... so that'd be 2880 times more than before.
1175 2010-12-01 05:57:16 <nanotube> ;;math calc 2880*254
1176 2010-12-01 05:57:16 <gribble> 731520
1177 2010-12-01 05:57:29 <denizzz> doublec: generator only works on windows?
1178 2010-12-01 05:57:31 <nanotube> just a bit more than one ati 5970 :)
1179 2010-12-01 05:57:33 <djoot> evil? how so? :)
1180 2010-12-01 05:57:39 <djoot> and define evil :)
1181 2010-12-01 05:57:51 <bitplane> evil because you're running background processes and bloating users phones
1182 2010-12-01 05:58:04 <djoot> I thought you were responding to Kiba
1183 2010-12-01 05:58:08 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 73150
1184 2010-12-01 05:58:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 73150 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes, and 7 seconds
1185 2010-12-01 05:58:13 <nanotube> djoot: use up other people's power without their consent? generate extra heat, especially while recharging already generates heat, thus reducing lifetime of device?
1186 2010-12-01 05:58:15 <bitplane> if it's happening while the game/app is running, users can't complain; they downloaded a closed source app, wtf did they expect?
1187 2010-12-01 05:58:22 <Kiba> STILL not worth it
1188 2010-12-01 05:58:34 <nanotube> Kiba: you missed a digit
1189 2010-12-01 05:58:41 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 731520
1190 2010-12-01 05:58:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 731520 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 13 hours, 10 minutes, and 29 seconds
1191 2010-12-01 05:58:46 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 731520
1192 2010-12-01 05:58:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 731520 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 13 hours, 10 minutes, and 29 seconds
1193 2010-12-01 05:58:50 <Xunie> BUG IN BITCOIN pre-0.3.10 - Update NOW! | 0.3.17 released | bitcoin.org down! | Bitcoin Development - We're here to help support the Bitcoin system. All related discussions are welcome. | If you have a question, simply ask and wait for a reply. | Look for the GPU client at http://bit.ly/9QO26e
1194 2010-12-01 05:58:50 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1195 2010-12-01 05:58:52 <Kiba> maybe, just maybe
1196 2010-12-01 05:59:09 <denizzz> in our country electricity is too smal cost, I can get money from you and buy GPU mining factory :3
1197 2010-12-01 05:59:17 <nanotube> Xunie: any chance you can raise sirius? so he can fix bitcoin.org?
1198 2010-12-01 05:59:23 <theymos> Thanks, Xunie.
1199 2010-12-01 05:59:53 <Xunie> nanotube, I can, where does he live?
1200 2010-12-01 05:59:55 <denizzz> super-duper fast ATI generator only works on windows?
1201 2010-12-01 06:00:01 <nanotube> Xunie: no idea
1202 2010-12-01 06:00:10 aceat64 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0)
1203 2010-12-01 06:00:18 <nanotube> denizzz: nope, the opencl miners are cross-platform
1204 2010-12-01 06:00:39 <doublec> denizzz, the binaries for the pooled generator is windows only
1205 2010-12-01 06:00:45 <doublec> denizzz, but the source builds on linux
1206 2010-12-01 06:00:48 <denizzz> nameless|: they are equal by speed of generations?
1207 2010-12-01 06:01:08 <denizzz> doublec: and sources are avail?
1208 2010-12-01 06:01:24 <nanotube> denizzz: the 'pooled generator' is not the same thing as the gpu generator.
1209 2010-12-01 06:01:34 dust__ has joined
1210 2010-12-01 06:01:48 Lyspooner has joined
1211 2010-12-01 06:02:01 <denizzz> I need the fastest generator
1212 2010-12-01 06:02:06 <doublec> denizzz, yes
1213 2010-12-01 06:02:09 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1214 2010-12-01 06:02:15 <Lyspooner> bitcoin.org still down?
1215 2010-12-01 06:02:17 <denizzz> nanotube: pooled? yes, I understand differences
1216 2010-12-01 06:02:18 <doublec> denizzz, then you want the gpu clients, not the pooled one
1217 2010-12-01 06:02:27 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
1218 2010-12-01 06:02:33 <gribble> It's not just you!
1219 2010-12-01 06:02:46 <Kiba> yes, apperantly
1220 2010-12-01 06:02:48 <Lyspooner> any news why?
1221 2010-12-01 06:02:54 <dust__> reddit effect?
1222 2010-12-01 06:03:09 <bitplane> i was thinking that at first
1223 2010-12-01 06:03:16 <Kiba> dust__: no.
1224 2010-12-01 06:03:18 <denizzz> pooled was maked for unused CPU resources in large office etc?
1225 2010-12-01 06:03:20 <Kiba> it was only a coincidence
1226 2010-12-01 06:03:46 <dust__> too bad, as at lot of people will see it on reddit
1227 2010-12-01 06:04:02 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,stats
1228 2010-12-01 06:04:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94838 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1929 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 0 hours, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9017.42799014
1229 2010-12-01 06:04:06 <bitplane> "hay I made a great corporate screensaver for your org"
1230 2010-12-01 06:04:14 <denizzz> anyone can provide link to reddit?
1231 2010-12-01 06:04:15 <nanotube> bitplane: haha yea
1232 2010-12-01 06:04:23 <nanotube> ;;sl reddit bitcoin
1233 2010-12-01 06:04:24 <gribble> http://www.reddit.com/domain/bitcoin.org/ | Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer, network-based digital currency with no central bank, and no transaction fees. Using a proof-of-work concept, nodes burn CPU ...
1234 2010-12-01 06:04:31 <Xunie> theymos, nanotube not picking up.
1235 2010-12-01 06:04:36 <denizzz> thanks
1236 2010-12-01 06:04:43 <nanotube> Xunie: mmm well thanks for trying :)
1237 2010-12-01 06:04:46 <Xunie> I'll try again in 25, first: coffee.
1238 2010-12-01 06:05:15 <Kiba> I LUV heroku
1239 2010-12-01 06:05:47 brucewagner_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1240 2010-12-01 06:05:57 <Lyspooner> oh man i missed bruce wagner?
1241 2010-12-01 06:06:05 <Lyspooner> what did he have to say
1242 2010-12-01 06:06:23 <denizzz> Lyspooner: ping timeout
1243 2010-12-01 06:06:43 <denizzz> wifi in central park is unstable :)
1244 2010-12-01 06:06:45 <nanotube> ;;seen brucewagner
1245 2010-12-01 06:06:45 <gribble> brucewagner was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <brucewagner> MT`AwAy: Yes. I hear you. Well, it's up to the community. Let me know if I can help. bruce@brucewagner.com ( I gotta run out the door to dinner! :)
1246 2010-12-01 06:06:53 <nanotube> Lyspooner: --^ :)
1247 2010-12-01 06:07:19 <Lyspooner> ;;seen sasquatch
1248 2010-12-01 06:07:19 <gribble> I have not seen sasquatch.
1249 2010-12-01 06:07:27 <Lyspooner> rats
1250 2010-12-01 06:07:33 <nanotube> haha
1251 2010-12-01 06:07:44 <Xunie> ;;seen Xunie
1252 2010-12-01 06:07:44 <gribble> Xunie was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 minutes and 58 seconds ago: <Xunie> I'll try again in 25, first: coffee.
1253 2010-12-01 06:08:16 <MT`AwAy> =)
1254 2010-12-01 06:08:24 <nanotube> ;;seen MT`AwAy
1255 2010-12-01 06:08:24 <gribble> MT`AwAy was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 seconds ago: <MT`AwAy> =)
1256 2010-12-01 06:08:26 <nanotube> heh
1257 2010-12-01 06:08:44 <Kiba> ;;seen kiba
1258 2010-12-01 06:08:45 <gribble> kiba was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 minutes and 29 seconds ago: <Kiba> I LUV heroku
1259 2010-12-01 06:08:54 <Kiba> ;;seen kiba
1260 2010-12-01 06:08:54 <gribble> kiba was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 9 seconds ago: <Kiba> ;;seen kiba
1261 2010-12-01 06:08:59 <Kiba> LOL
1262 2010-12-01 06:09:01 <doublec> nanotube, I put together a quick page: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1263 2010-12-01 06:09:13 <Lyspooner> ;;seen Scarface
1264 2010-12-01 06:09:13 <gribble> I have not seen Scarface.
1265 2010-12-01 06:09:21 <Lyspooner> well you should, it's excellent
1266 2010-12-01 06:10:06 * MT`AwAy is waiting for the new SSL certificate for bitcoin.in
1267 2010-12-01 06:10:19 <nanotube> doublec: great! might want to add the details of what needs to be changed in order to compile the source on linux :)
1268 2010-12-01 06:10:31 <doublec> nanotube, yep I'll do that
1269 2010-12-01 06:10:39 <Foggymyst> Anyone running the GPU client, did you have to register any DLLs or anything of that sort?
1270 2010-12-01 06:11:03 <nanotube> doublec: would be great if the miner had a built-in switch to limit how much cpu it uses.
1271 2010-12-01 06:11:19 <nanotube> though i guess i could always just do it with cpulimit... it would be nice if i could just give it a cli arg. :)
1272 2010-12-01 06:11:22 <doublec> nanotube, yes that would be good
1273 2010-12-01 06:11:37 <nanotube> feel free to suggest that to puddinpop when you next talk to him. :)
1274 2010-12-01 06:12:12 <Foggymyst> ;;bc,calc 15700
1275 2010-12-01 06:12:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15700 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 49 seconds
1276 2010-12-01 06:12:26 <Kiba> hmm.
1277 2010-12-01 06:12:44 <Foggymyst> Wow, it is totally not worth it to mine with the CPU client.
1278 2010-12-01 06:12:56 <nanotube> Foggymyst: you can join the pool :)
1279 2010-12-01 06:12:58 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: depend on the cases
1280 2010-12-01 06:13:24 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
1281 2010-12-01 06:13:36 <Foggymyst> I just bought two dual Xeon 5680 servers
1282 2010-12-01 06:13:46 <denizzz> I have strange idea: what if make generation periodicaL/
1283 2010-12-01 06:13:48 <denizzz> ?
1284 2010-12-01 06:13:55 <doublec> if there pooled client could generate at lowest idle, and keep the cpu at it's lowest cpu rate then it would be useful to keep running on any machine at low cost just to get small coins when the pool generates
1285 2010-12-01 06:13:55 <nanotube> denizzz: what do you mean?
1286 2010-12-01 06:13:56 <Foggymyst> One of the 2 x Xeon 5680s would take almost 4 weeks to generate a block.
1287 2010-12-01 06:13:58 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: periodical?
1288 2010-12-01 06:14:12 <nanotube> doublec: right. :)
1289 2010-12-01 06:14:14 <denizzz> i.e. 1 hour we genrating than difficulty is increasing
1290 2010-12-01 06:14:39 <denizzz> after we do delay and difficulty going down
1291 2010-12-01 06:14:53 <Foggymyst> ;;bc,calc 30400
1292 2010-12-01 06:14:53 <denizzz> and repeat this cycle
1293 2010-12-01 06:14:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30400 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 6 days, 5 hours, 1 minute, and 42 seconds
1294 2010-12-01 06:14:54 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: difficulty is updated every 2 weeks
1295 2010-12-01 06:15:07 <denizzz> oops, I think it updates every 1 hour
1296 2010-12-01 06:15:13 <Foggymyst> Who controls difficulty?
1297 2010-12-01 06:15:25 <denizzz> Foggymyst: all clients
1298 2010-12-01 06:15:47 bertodsera has joined
1299 2010-12-01 06:16:07 <denizzz> MT`AwAy: GPU oligarchy can arrange for 2 week delays
1300 2010-12-01 06:16:18 <denizzz> or not?
1301 2010-12-01 06:16:26 <Foggymyst> So, aside from pooling it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to CPU mine.
1302 2010-12-01 06:16:32 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: if they do that it'll take longer than 2 weeks
1303 2010-12-01 06:16:53 <denizzz> 2 weeks generation and 2 weeks delaying
1304 2010-12-01 06:16:54 <denizzz> ?
1305 2010-12-01 06:16:57 <MT`AwAy> and twhen they start hgenerating again they'll only get the cins they mised
1306 2010-12-01 06:17:05 <MT`AwAy> then difficulty will be back to high
1307 2010-12-01 06:17:25 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: in fact difficulty is adjusted every 2016 blocks, which makes ~2 weeks
1308 2010-12-01 06:17:27 <denizzz> MacRohard: they starts generating with low difficulty value
1309 2010-12-01 06:17:49 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1310 2010-12-01 06:17:57 <MT`AwAy> well
1311 2010-12-01 06:18:00 <denizzz> and fast generation will give him many generated blocks
1312 2010-12-01 06:18:08 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: no more than 2016
1313 2010-12-01 06:18:10 <denizzz> I am right?
1314 2010-12-01 06:18:27 <denizzz> aaa, ok, I understand my mistake
1315 2010-12-01 06:20:13 brucewagner_ has joined
1316 2010-12-01 06:20:22 <doublec> Foggymyst, yes difficulty has ramped up quite a bit over the last few weeks making CPU mining less attractive
1317 2010-12-01 06:20:52 <Kiba> hmm
1318 2010-12-01 06:21:24 <Foggymyst> Is there a whitepaper on the difficulty? I can't understand how that would not be centrally controlled.
1319 2010-12-01 06:21:28 <Kiba> can't GPU farms poolmine too?
1320 2010-12-01 06:21:45 <brucewagner_> No news about bitcoin.org yet? This is really bexoming a devistating outage
1321 2010-12-01 06:21:56 <Kiba> brucewagner_: the forum and content was lost
1322 2010-12-01 06:22:08 <Kiba> not all that serious
1323 2010-12-01 06:22:16 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
1324 2010-12-01 06:22:22 <gribble> It's not just you!
1325 2010-12-01 06:22:52 * Kiba doesn't understand what's going on with his code
1326 2010-12-01 06:23:00 <brucewagner_> Lost?? what do you mean? permanently!?
1327 2010-12-01 06:23:10 <Kiba> anybody a rails developer who used mtgox's merchant service?
1328 2010-12-01 06:23:15 <Kiba> brucewagner_: no..
1329 2010-12-01 06:23:39 <Kiba> well, when it's back up, I am sure that the content will be federated somehow
1330 2010-12-01 06:24:01 <Kiba> encounter difficult problem
1331 2010-12-01 06:24:01 <Kiba> adapt
1332 2010-12-01 06:24:05 <denizzz> Why difficulty is not changed after each block? It would be convenient
1333 2010-12-01 06:24:09 <doublec> Kiba, yes they could. Ideally a gpu would join the pool so coins are generated faster so the cpu contributers get coins quicker
1334 2010-12-01 06:25:06 <nanotube> Foggymyst: every client has code in it, that reevaluates the difficulty every 2016 blocks. that's how.
1335 2010-12-01 06:25:08 <doublec> brucewagner_, Kiba is joking about the loss
1336 2010-12-01 06:25:31 <denizzz> Kiba: can but it's does not make sense
1337 2010-12-01 06:25:37 bertodsera has joined
1338 2010-12-01 06:25:37 <denizzz> GPU is more faster
1339 2010-12-01 06:25:41 <brucewagner_> some way to back up the forums onto bittorrent?
1340 2010-12-01 06:25:55 <Kiba> it would be encrypted..hmm.
1341 2010-12-01 06:26:41 <brucewagner_> I had a forum on http://bitcoinme
1342 2010-12-01 06:26:47 <Kiba> Once I finish a certain problem...
1343 2010-12-01 06:26:51 <denizzz> <denizzz> Why difficulty is not changed after each block? It would be convenient - stupid question. sorry )
1344 2010-12-01 06:26:56 <brucewagner_> com but i removed it
1345 2010-12-01 06:27:05 <Kiba> then I'll start working on a prediction market exchange
1346 2010-12-01 06:27:40 <brucewagner_> Maybe i should restore the forum i removed from bitcoinme.com ?
1347 2010-12-01 06:27:51 * denizzz gave dice to Kiba
1348 2010-12-01 06:28:47 <denizzz> Do not hurry. It would be better to write on the official site a little page saying we have a problem, all right.
1349 2010-12-01 06:28:48 * Kiba wishes for autonomous cars
1350 2010-12-01 06:29:48 <Kiba> 12 clicks, 7161 impressions
1351 2010-12-01 06:29:56 <Kiba> from the project wonderful campaign
1352 2010-12-01 06:30:04 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1353 2010-12-01 06:30:49 <Kiba> I think the projectwonderful campaign sucks. What a bad conversion rate
1354 2010-12-01 06:31:05 <theymos> That's not so bad.
1355 2010-12-01 06:31:17 <Kiba> CTR is .17%
1356 2010-12-01 06:31:20 <Kiba> that's BAD
1357 2010-12-01 06:31:29 <Foggymyst> ;;bc,c 36608
1358 2010-12-01 06:31:29 <gribble> Error: "bc,c" is not a valid command.
1359 2010-12-01 06:31:38 <Kiba> and maybe only 1% of them would actually go on using bitcoin
1360 2010-12-01 06:31:44 <brucewagner_> what do you think about http://bitcoinpromote.com
1361 2010-12-01 06:31:49 <Foggymyst> ;;bc,calc 36608
1362 2010-12-01 06:31:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 36608 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 3 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, and 59 seconds
1363 2010-12-01 06:32:03 <Kiba> a letter writing campaign?
1364 2010-12-01 06:32:12 <Kiba> I prefer quality over quantity
1365 2010-12-01 06:32:24 <brucewagner_> yes (email writing)
1366 2010-12-01 06:32:38 <Kiba> brucewagner_: here's the deal, I think we need to organize a donation pledge
1367 2010-12-01 06:32:45 <Kiba> a substantial amount.
1368 2010-12-01 06:32:51 <Kiba> that will work better to convince an organization
1369 2010-12-01 06:32:53 <brucewagner_> We need both - quality and quantity
1370 2010-12-01 06:33:47 <brucewagner_> You'd be surprised. sometimes just hearing from 3-4 people is enough...
1371 2010-12-01 06:34:00 <Kiba> perhaps, but the generoisty of the community is limited..
1372 2010-12-01 06:34:39 <Kiba> charities..
1373 2010-12-01 06:35:58 <bitplane> hmm here's an idea to promote bitcoin
1374 2010-12-01 06:36:04 <bitplane> get flattr.com onboard
1375 2010-12-01 06:36:09 <Kiba> bitplane: we tired that
1376 2010-12-01 06:36:15 <bitplane> they don't want it?
1377 2010-12-01 06:36:22 <Kiba> well, members of the community tried that...
1378 2010-12-01 06:36:41 <doublec> bitplane, http://forum.flattr.net/showthread.php?tid=550
1379 2010-12-01 06:36:46 <Kiba> say we're too young
1380 2010-12-01 06:36:56 <bitplane> reasonable point
1381 2010-12-01 06:37:05 <doublec> we're older than them :)
1382 2010-12-01 06:37:14 <doublec> as in bitcoin has been around longer than flattr
1383 2010-12-01 06:37:23 <CyanDynamo> what you guys need to do is decide what demographic your product hits hardest and then get the message out to blogs that preach to them
1384 2010-12-01 06:37:59 <Kiba> doublec: only six months ago that the project starts gathering momentum
1385 2010-12-01 06:38:12 <Kiba> it hit anarchists hardest
1386 2010-12-01 06:38:17 <CyanDynamo> yup
1387 2010-12-01 06:38:21 <CyanDynamo> so find anarchist places
1388 2010-12-01 06:38:37 <CyanDynamo> have you guys heard of c4ss?
1389 2010-12-01 06:38:38 <Foggymyst> Eh
1390 2010-12-01 06:38:44 <Kiba> yes
1391 2010-12-01 06:38:54 <Foggymyst> I think marketing BitCoin to anarchists doesn't make any sense.
1392 2010-12-01 06:39:04 <CyanDynamo> do a "press release" to c4ss
1393 2010-12-01 06:39:07 <Kiba> Foggymyst: but a lot of us ARE anarchist
1394 2010-12-01 06:39:11 <Xunie> Foggymyst, wait, why not?
1395 2010-12-01 06:39:15 <Foggymyst> I mean, yah, it kind of makes sense but not in the way that is going to grow adoption.
1396 2010-12-01 06:39:20 <Foggymyst> Ok, well, heres why
1397 2010-12-01 06:39:25 <CyanDynamo> there's a definite anarchist drive behind this project
1398 2010-12-01 06:39:31 <CyanDynamo> only an anarchist would do this
1399 2010-12-01 06:39:46 <Foggymyst> What are the main issues with current currency (ie credit / debit)?
1400 2010-12-01 06:39:51 <Kiba> there's only 1 liberal/democract last time I checked..at least according to the poll
1401 2010-12-01 06:39:52 <Foggymyst> Chargebacks are the primary
1402 2010-12-01 06:39:59 <Foggymyst> Fees are the secondary
1403 2010-12-01 06:40:05 <Foggymyst> So, as an example
1404 2010-12-01 06:40:11 <Kiba> get to the point.
1405 2010-12-01 06:40:29 <Foggymyst> Gambling is a pain in the ass online because you have to deal with fraud and chargebacks
1406 2010-12-01 06:40:34 <Xunie> Well, I'm not an anarchist myself, well not entirely, but I do believe in giving people the right to do what the hell they want, weither it's psychoactive substance or what ever.
1407 2010-12-01 06:40:42 <Foggymyst> Micropayments aren't worth it because leaving a 25 cent tip costs 45 cents in fees
1408 2010-12-01 06:40:52 <Kiba> so he's not getting to the point.
1409 2010-12-01 06:40:53 <Foggymyst> In game payments are also usually micro
1410 2010-12-01 06:40:57 <Xunie> As long as it harms no one that isn't willing to be harmed, everything should be okay in my eyes!
1411 2010-12-01 06:41:27 <Foggymyst> What I am getting at is you are not leveraging the benefits of BitCoins by marketing it to anarchists
1412 2010-12-01 06:41:38 <Foggymyst> You should be marketing it to industries that are struggling wtih micropayments
1413 2010-12-01 06:41:40 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1414 2010-12-01 06:41:40 <Kiba> anarchists are primary our evangelist
1415 2010-12-01 06:41:41 <Foggymyst> And with fraud.
1416 2010-12-01 06:41:52 <nanotube> Xunie: ++ on that.
1417 2010-12-01 06:41:57 TheAncientGoat has joined
1418 2010-12-01 06:42:06 <Foggymyst> Do you see where I am coming from?
1419 2010-12-01 06:42:13 <Xunie> nanotube, can't get Sirius_ hailed, I gotta go.
1420 2010-12-01 06:42:14 <Kiba> but anarchists are easier to reach
1421 2010-12-01 06:42:16 <CyanDynamo> are you suggesting offering it to gaming services with a virtual currency?
1422 2010-12-01 06:42:36 <Kiba> and there's a concentraction of anarchist in FreeKeene
1423 2010-12-01 06:42:53 <Foggymyst> I am saying, find the areas that are totally ignored or underserved by Credit / Debit because of the fraud and fees and go after them.
1424 2010-12-01 06:43:04 <CyanDynamo> Foggymyst: excellent point there
1425 2010-12-01 06:43:09 <Foggymyst> *find the industries
1426 2010-12-01 06:43:15 <nanotube> Foggymyst: yes indeed - and there's a thread on the forum about 'good bitcoin niches'
1427 2010-12-01 06:43:18 <CyanDynamo> (should've started with that to begin with :P)
1428 2010-12-01 06:43:25 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1429 2010-12-01 06:43:31 <nanotube> Foggymyst: the micropayments bit has been explored amply.
1430 2010-12-01 06:43:32 <Kiba> well, EFF got us some publicity
1431 2010-12-01 06:43:43 * Kiba is getting micropayment for his art
1432 2010-12-01 06:43:48 <Foggymyst> nanotube: and what did you come up with?
1433 2010-12-01 06:44:02 <denizzz> bitcoiners attack flattr :)
1434 2010-12-01 06:44:06 <CyanDynamo> TheAncientGoat: what do you think of getting OGA to support bitcoin?
1435 2010-12-01 06:44:15 <TheAncientGoat> CyanDynamo: Now there's an idea :)
1436 2010-12-01 06:44:25 <TheAncientGoat> I still want a bitcoin flattr
1437 2010-12-01 06:44:34 <Foggymyst> I think a fantastic vertical for bitcoin to get into would be 'becoming the gold standard of in-game currency'
1438 2010-12-01 06:44:34 <CyanDynamo> for those who don't know, OGA = opengameart.com
1439 2010-12-01 06:44:41 <brucewagner> ok
1440 2010-12-01 06:44:43 <TheAncientGoat> I know there used to be one, but it could be a tad nicer :)
1441 2010-12-01 06:44:44 <CyanDynamo> Foggymyst: +1
1442 2010-12-01 06:44:54 <brucewagner> I put the BitcoinMe.com forum back up... here: http://www.bitcoinme.com/discussion-forum.html#/
1443 2010-12-01 06:44:56 <Xunie> BRB ETA 6 hours, I'll call Sirius_ then.
1444 2010-12-01 06:45:17 <Foggymyst> Its too bad the forum is down.
1445 2010-12-01 06:45:33 <Foggymyst> Actually, now that I think about it
1446 2010-12-01 06:45:36 <Kiba> this sucks.
1447 2010-12-01 06:45:37 <TheAncientGoat> Get Facebook to use bitcoin as their Farmville-like games currency XD
1448 2010-12-01 06:45:44 <nanotube> Foggymyst: things that have been suggested is games, micropayment for web content (in lieu of ads), porn/drugs (for the privacy aspects)... and a bunch of other things.
1449 2010-12-01 06:45:46 <CyanDynamo> screw facebook
1450 2010-12-01 06:46:17 * bitplane agrees
1451 2010-12-01 06:46:23 <Foggymyst> nanotube: curious.
1452 2010-12-01 06:46:25 <bitplane> facebook wouldn't want bitcoin anyway
1453 2010-12-01 06:46:28 <nanotube> brucewagner: in case you missed it, i also started a google group. http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoin-discussion
1454 2010-12-01 06:46:37 <brucewagner> How long has Bitcoin.org been down now?
1455 2010-12-01 06:46:48 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: too long
1456 2010-12-01 06:46:51 <bitplane> besides, if the corporations get onto this early we'll have no way to generate bitcoins!
1457 2010-12-01 06:47:02 <Foggymyst> Is it difficult or expensive to transfer money in WoW from one server to another?
1458 2010-12-01 06:47:05 <CyanDynamo> bitplane: exactly, it will corrupt it
1459 2010-12-01 06:47:17 nathan7 has joined
1460 2010-12-01 06:47:27 <Foggymyst> I never played Wow, which is why I am asking.
1461 2010-12-01 06:47:34 <bitplane> needs to be a grassroots movement for as long as possible, so the people have the wealth
1462 2010-12-01 06:47:34 <CyanDynamo> i wouldn't know
1463 2010-12-01 06:47:36 <nanotube> Foggymyst: neither have i... so no idea here. :)
1464 2010-12-01 06:47:43 <bitplane> or technocrats anyway
1465 2010-12-01 06:48:01 <CyanDynamo> you may as well jump on the minecraft bandwagon while it's still considered grassroots/indie
1466 2010-12-01 06:48:01 <Foggymyst> bitplane: Isn't one user generating 25-30% of the bitcoins?
1467 2010-12-01 06:48:21 <CyanDynamo> TheAncientGoat: played wow before?
1468 2010-12-01 06:48:26 <bitplane> good point foggymyst
1469 2010-12-01 06:48:50 <Foggymyst> I wonder what he's doing with all that.
1470 2010-12-01 06:48:58 <TheAncientGoat> Only on a private server years ago
1471 2010-12-01 06:48:59 <Foggymyst> or she. ;)
1472 2010-12-01 06:49:12 <bitplane> hopefully not a pump-n-dump exercise!
1473 2010-12-01 06:50:03 <Foggymyst> With 25-30% of the minted currency they can control the market. Heh.
1474 2010-12-01 06:50:48 <nanotube> not quite as much as 25%. current total mining capacity is about 75 ghps. he has 8-9
1475 2010-12-01 06:51:50 <Foggymyst> Interestng.
1476 2010-12-01 06:52:09 <bitplane> so we need more people!
1477 2010-12-01 06:52:23 <nanotube> yes, the more cpu power the network has, the more resistant to attacks.
1478 2010-12-01 06:52:27 <Foggymyst> Well
1479 2010-12-01 06:52:30 <Foggymyst> Sadly
1480 2010-12-01 06:52:38 <nanotube> 75ghps is only like 150 ati 5970s, roughly.
1481 2010-12-01 06:52:52 <Foggymyst> I am not going to put my servers to work on it at the given payback rate. ;)
1482 2010-12-01 06:53:04 <Foggymyst> I think you guys have probably heard that before.
1483 2010-12-01 06:53:40 <Foggymyst> Have you?
1484 2010-12-01 06:53:42 <nanotube> Foggymyst: well, there's pooled mining.
1485 2010-12-01 06:53:50 <TheAncientGoat> Is there another bitcoin channel for troubleshooting, or is this the only one?
1486 2010-12-01 06:53:53 <nanotube> and yes we have.
1487 2010-12-01 06:54:01 <nanotube> TheAncientGoat: this is 'the place'.
1488 2010-12-01 06:54:17 <Foggymyst> Whats the typical rate of return for pooled mining?
1489 2010-12-01 06:54:27 <djoot> any idea how the 6870 would perform?
1490 2010-12-01 06:54:47 <nanotube> Foggymyst: well, same as for regular mining. only that you get your bitcoins in smaller chunks, rather than in 50-btc chunks, for which you may have to wait for a while.
1491 2010-12-01 06:54:55 <nanotube> Foggymyst: the return per watt is still the same.
1492 2010-12-01 06:55:03 <Foggymyst> Ah, curious.
1493 2010-12-01 06:55:19 <Foggymyst> nanotube: How does one get the bitcoin capital to become a USD -> BC exchange center?
1494 2010-12-01 06:55:30 <brucewagner> How long has Bitcoin.org been down now?
1495 2010-12-01 06:55:49 <nanotube> Foggymyst: the idea is, say you can run on your cpu and get a block every 4 weeks. if 30 people combine forces, they can get a block every day, and split it 30-ways, so you get 1.x bitcoins a day
1496 2010-12-01 06:56:14 <TheAncientGoat> nanotube: Ah, well, I've got a bit of a predicament
1497 2010-12-01 06:56:23 <nanotube> Foggymyst: you buy some bitcoins... then offer your services to whoever wants them. :)
1498 2010-12-01 06:56:37 <nanotube> you could try #bitcoin-otc
1499 2010-12-01 06:56:50 <TheAncientGoat> I generated a couple of months ago, and tried sending coins from my old client yesterday
1500 2010-12-01 06:56:56 <TheAncientGoat> And it's still unconfirmed
1501 2010-12-01 06:57:17 <nanotube> did your old client have any unconfirmed transactions in it?
1502 2010-12-01 06:57:21 <djoot> brucewagner: I think over 9 hours
1503 2010-12-01 06:57:24 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1504 2010-12-01 06:57:29 <TheAncientGoat> I downloaded the latest client, but it crashes when I try to open it, with a "reload database" error
1505 2010-12-01 06:57:50 <TheAncientGoat> nanotube: It didn't before I sent something yesterday
1506 2010-12-01 06:58:35 <nanotube> how long has it been? is your old client connected to any other nodes when you were sending?
1507 2010-12-01 06:59:07 <TheAncientGoat> Yep, connected to 8 nodes and confirmations of my old transactions where still comming in
1508 2010-12-01 06:59:07 <[Noodles]> djoot: i'd prefer a HD5850 over 6870, price s about the same, hash-speed won't be i guess
1509 2010-12-01 06:59:37 <TheAncientGoat> I sent it about 11 hours ago, but I was only online for like 1
1510 2010-12-01 07:00:13 <nanotube> well, try putting up your old client again, and let it sit for some hours... it'll retransmit the transaction at intervals, until it makes it into a block...
1511 2010-12-01 07:00:21 <nanotube> dunno why it hasn't made it in yet, though..
1512 2010-12-01 07:00:34 <nanotube> i'm going to sleep - if anyone else has any ideas, feel free to chime in. :)
1513 2010-12-01 07:01:13 <TheAncientGoat> I'll try that, nanotube, thanks
1514 2010-12-01 07:01:39 <TheAncientGoat> I was just worried that I have 50 coins in a wallet that is incompatible
1515 2010-12-01 07:02:40 <djoot> [Noodles]: are you looking at some specs or what do you base the hash speed estimation on?
1516 2010-12-01 07:02:44 <[Noodles]> the number of stream-processors is a nice indicator of what a gpu will do, the 5850 has 1440, 6870 has only 1120, so my guess: it's not as fast
1517 2010-12-01 07:03:03 <djoot> alright,, thanks :)
1518 2010-12-01 07:04:02 <Foggymyst> Anyone got the GPU client working on their machine (Windows)?
1519 2010-12-01 07:04:09 <[Noodles]> just my personla experience though, i'm not that much of a techy
1520 2010-12-01 07:04:25 <[Noodles]> yes Foggy, i run them on windows
1521 2010-12-01 07:04:50 <Foggymyst> [Noodles]: Did you have to install anything other than python? Did you just unzip the client and run the exe?
1522 2010-12-01 07:04:57 <Sirius_> what's going on
1523 2010-12-01 07:06:04 <[Noodles]> not even python, i only (already had) installed latest ocl drivers and the cudatoolkit on nvidia
1524 2010-12-01 07:06:46 <[Noodles]> oh and stream sdk on ati
1525 2010-12-01 07:07:36 <Foggymyst> Ah, I am guessing I need stream sdk then. =)
1526 2010-12-01 07:07:39 m0mchil has joined
1527 2010-12-01 07:07:46 <Foggymyst> Thanks for that heads up
1528 2010-12-01 07:09:30 <CyanDynamo> Documents from the latest Wikileak reveal Putin is actually Batman. "[Mr. Putin] is the hero Russia deserves, but not the one it needs right now."
1529 2010-12-01 07:09:33 brucewagner__ has joined
1530 2010-12-01 07:10:13 brucewagner__ has quit (Client Quit)
1531 2010-12-01 07:10:40 <brucewagner> Ok. I've listed 5 Bitcoin Forums here: http://www.bitcoinme.com/discussion-forum.html
1532 2010-12-01 07:10:42 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1533 2010-12-01 07:11:28 <MT`AwAy> oh
1534 2010-12-01 07:11:31 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin.org status changed
1535 2010-12-01 07:12:04 <MT`AwAy> now it's connection refused instead of timeout
1536 2010-12-01 07:12:30 <Sirius_> great
1537 2010-12-01 07:12:33 nathan7 has joined
1538 2010-12-01 07:13:24 <Sirius_> is someone ddossing again or something?
1539 2010-12-01 07:14:37 <MT`AwAy> no idea
1540 2010-12-01 07:14:49 <MT`AwAy> maybe someone is busy fixing the server
1541 2010-12-01 07:15:50 <brucewagner> Can someone post a new message (or reply) on the BitcoinMe Forum so I know it works...? It's here http://www.bitcoinme.com/discussion-forum.html then scroll down the page...
1542 2010-12-01 07:16:23 <denizzz> what about radion 5870x2 ?
1543 2010-12-01 07:16:53 <djoot> 02:32 < theymos> Sirius-m hosts both bitcoin.org and Bitcoin Exchange. Something's wrong with the network at his server location: its TCP is behaving oddly.
1544 2010-12-01 07:16:56 <djoot> 04:51 < theymos> Try watching a connection with Wireshark. Their TCP behaves strangely.
1545 2010-12-01 07:17:41 CyanDynamo1 has joined
1546 2010-12-01 07:18:11 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1547 2010-12-01 07:18:22 <CyanDynamo1> this might be relevant: http://thehumanstockexchange.com/
1548 2010-12-01 07:18:41 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Client Quit)
1549 2010-12-01 07:18:41 <denizzz> http://thehumanmeatstockexchange.com/
1550 2010-12-01 07:18:43 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: dunno about your forum, it tries to speak french but it's broken french
1551 2010-12-01 07:18:49 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1552 2010-12-01 07:18:49 CyanDynamo1 has joined
1553 2010-12-01 07:19:42 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Client Quit)
1554 2010-12-01 07:19:51 noagendamarket has joined
1555 2010-12-01 07:20:36 <noagendamarket> *waves
1556 2010-12-01 07:20:57 <noagendamarket> whos ddosing the forum?
1557 2010-12-01 07:21:00 <djoot> It's up wohooo
1558 2010-12-01 07:21:40 <[Noodles]> wasn't me
1559 2010-12-01 07:22:04 CyanDynamo has joined
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1561 2010-12-01 07:26:36 nathan7 has joined
1562 2010-12-01 07:27:52 LobsterMan has joined
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1564 2010-12-01 07:27:52 LobsterMan has joined
1565 2010-12-01 07:30:19 <brucewagner> MT`AwAy: French??
1566 2010-12-01 07:30:31 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: I'm French living in Japan
1567 2010-12-01 07:31:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway your forum says I can login in french (probably because my brower advertises french), but not in good french, doesn't give a good image :p
1568 2010-12-01 07:31:19 <brucewagner> Oh ok. The site needs help with the translation. The Forum is in English there.
1569 2010-12-01 07:32:32 <denizzz> MT`AwAy: hi, I am btcex.com. Check email :)
1570 2010-12-01 07:32:47 <MT`AwAy> :D
1571 2010-12-01 07:32:47 dust__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1572 2010-12-01 07:33:18 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: nothing for now :o
1573 2010-12-01 07:34:13 <denizzz> MT`AwAy: hmmm.
1574 2010-12-01 07:34:23 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin.org is back btw
1575 2010-12-01 07:35:27 <denizzz> yes
1576 2010-12-01 07:40:36 <denizzz> MT`AwAy: I am sent in again
1577 2010-12-01 07:40:39 <denizzz> it*
1578 2010-12-01 07:40:54 <MT`AwAy> got it
1579 2010-12-01 07:42:32 <MT`AwAy> denizzz: done
1580 2010-12-01 07:45:21 brucewagner_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1581 2010-12-01 07:47:31 <denizzz> MT`AwAy: ок
1582 2010-12-01 07:48:11 <denizzz> bb all
1583 2010-12-01 07:48:13 denizzz has quit (Quit: ТаÑÑ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð°ÑÑ Ñ
войного дÑевоÑÑоÑ!..)
1584 2010-12-01 07:51:33 m0mchil has left ()
1585 2010-12-01 07:52:11 darksk1ez has joined
1586 2010-12-01 07:53:48 altamic has joined
1587 2010-12-01 07:54:43 <altamic> good morning folks
1588 2010-12-01 07:55:03 <CyanDynamo> howdy
1589 2010-12-01 07:55:17 <Foggymyst> ;;bc,calc 45100
1590 2010-12-01 07:55:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 45100 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 41 minutes, and 43 seconds
1591 2010-12-01 07:56:25 <altamic> gribble is getting more and more skillful
1592 2010-12-01 08:05:59 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1593 2010-12-01 08:08:08 <altamic> bitcoin.org up here
1594 2010-12-01 08:31:40 <TheAncientGoat> hmmm
1595 2010-12-01 08:31:50 <TheAncientGoat> Bitcoin.org is giving me an ssl warning
1596 2010-12-01 08:36:31 <TheAncientGoat> Oh wait, just me being silly
1597 2010-12-01 08:38:52 Rawnasaurus has joined
1598 2010-12-01 08:44:14 <LobsterMan> http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp
1599 2010-12-01 08:44:18 <LobsterMan> looks like he pissed a lot of people off
1600 2010-12-01 08:46:09 <TheAncientGoat> LobsterMan: Yup, the US is even willing to give him citizenship sothat they can execute him for treason :P
1601 2010-12-01 08:46:19 <LobsterMan> ;|
1602 2010-12-01 08:48:58 <altamic> and they complain china
1603 2010-12-01 08:49:14 <TheAncientGoat> You know, we really should take the reddit source code, and make the upvotes work with bitcoins
1604 2010-12-01 08:49:36 <TheAncientGoat> Tadaa, open source, bitcoin powered flattr
1605 2010-12-01 08:52:06 <TheAncientGoat> And make downvotes go towards running the site :P
1606 2010-12-01 08:52:31 <sgornick> TheAncientGoat: >> reddit
1607 2010-12-01 08:52:31 <sgornick> TheAncientGoat: You sir, are a genius!
1608 2010-12-01 08:52:48 <jgarzik> ;;bc,calc 11000
1609 2010-12-01 08:52:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 9 minutes, and 4 seconds
1610 2010-12-01 08:52:56 <TheAncientGoat> call it creddit
1611 2010-12-01 08:53:07 <sgornick> SCORE! +100
1612 2010-12-01 08:53:36 <TheAncientGoat> time to go reward the brain with some fried chicken :P
1613 2010-12-01 08:58:11 <eureka^> wang backwards is gnaw
1614 2010-12-01 08:59:28 <CyanDynamo> that's a disconcerting juxtoposition of words
1615 2010-12-01 09:00:02 <eureka^> solar% perl -e 'print reverse split //, wang;'
1616 2010-12-01 09:00:02 <eureka^> gnaw
1617 2010-12-01 09:00:04 <eureka^> fact proven
1618 2010-12-01 09:00:30 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1619 2010-12-01 09:00:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94866 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1901 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 6 hours, 18 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9468.72880234
1620 2010-12-01 09:03:16 bertodsera has joined
1621 2010-12-01 09:04:45 brucewagner has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1622 2010-12-01 09:26:32 <doublec> the problem with the reddit idea, and flattr suffers from this too, is people submit content that isn't theirs
1623 2010-12-01 09:26:38 <TheAncientGoat> back withc chicken
1624 2010-12-01 09:26:42 <doublec> so they end up getting the bitcoins
1625 2010-12-01 09:26:46 <doublec> which encourages spamming
1626 2010-12-01 09:26:54 <doublec> it's bad enough with people trying to get reddit karma by reposting, etc
1627 2010-12-01 09:27:13 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1628 2010-12-01 09:27:20 <TheAncientGoat> doublec: Ah, but what we do is disable submissions, and limit it to a signed widget
1629 2010-12-01 09:27:49 <doublec> how do things get submitted if submissions are disabled?
1630 2010-12-01 09:28:03 <TheAncientGoat> by widget
1631 2010-12-01 09:28:07 <doublec> so they click on the widget and it's auto submitted?
1632 2010-12-01 09:28:28 <doublec> can a user submit their own content by clicking on it?
1633 2010-12-01 09:28:33 <TheAncientGoat> Yup
1634 2010-12-01 09:28:52 <TheAncientGoat> but you can disable that as well
1635 2010-12-01 09:29:13 <TheAncientGoat> although rthen they'll just create 2 accounts
1636 2010-12-01 09:29:34 <doublec> I never noticed there was a bitcoin reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin
1637 2010-12-01 09:29:53 <doublec> created by someone who deleted their account
1638 2010-12-01 09:29:57 <TheAncientGoat> hah
1639 2010-12-01 09:33:29 <TheAncientGoat> Here's an idea, what about keeping the submission system, and then having all the coins go to a placeholder account, which can then be claimed by the content creator?
1640 2010-12-01 09:34:01 <TheAncientGoat> And the submitter gets a commission
1641 2010-12-01 09:34:28 <doublec> that's neat
1642 2010-12-01 09:35:06 <TheAncientGoat> And if you're really strict, then it has less risk of content stealing than flattr, and if the owner doesn't claim, everyone gets refunded
1643 2010-12-01 09:35:20 <doublec> you could have people add something to their site, a comment in the HTML, or a file. and if ever their site is submitted, the money can go straight to them.
1644 2010-12-01 09:35:35 <doublec> tipjoy had something like that
1645 2010-12-01 09:35:42 <doublec> you added their comment to your html
1646 2010-12-01 09:35:44 <TheAncientGoat> Kind of a mix between flattr and pledgie/all those pledge sites
1647 2010-12-01 09:35:47 <TheAncientGoat> doublec: Yup
1648 2010-12-01 09:36:03 <TheAncientGoat> You can have system that automates the claims process
1649 2010-12-01 09:36:08 <doublec> yes
1650 2010-12-01 09:36:09 <doublec> I like it
1651 2010-12-01 09:37:12 <jrabbit> http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/ee2xk/noam_chomsky_wikileaks_cables_reveal_profound/
1652 2010-12-01 09:37:23 <jrabbit> ooh I'll have to watch this ep
1653 2010-12-01 09:38:06 <TheAncientGoat> And this is the point where I realize I don't have the skills to implement it and don't really know anyone else who does/is intrested enough to do it, and the idea gets thrown onto the huge pile of other un-implemented stuff that could be kinda cool ;)
1654 2010-12-01 09:38:28 <doublec> haha
1655 2010-12-01 09:38:47 <noagendamarket> You can use the reddit code to build on
1656 2010-12-01 09:39:02 <TheAncientGoat> noagendamarket: Yeah, that's where I started ;)
1657 2010-12-01 09:39:28 <noagendamarket> lol its a nice idea
1658 2010-12-01 09:39:30 <doublec> it might be even easier to add it to the hacker news code
1659 2010-12-01 09:39:36 <doublec> if you don't need subforums, etc
1660 2010-12-01 09:39:40 <jrabbit> reddit code SUCKS.
1661 2010-12-01 09:39:44 <jrabbit> seriously
1662 2010-12-01 09:39:45 <TheAncientGoat> However, I don't really know web dev so :P
1663 2010-12-01 09:40:13 <jrabbit> reddit code mgiht be good for a reddit scale site but its hell to modify and run on a small scale
1664 2010-12-01 09:40:25 RazielZ has joined
1665 2010-12-01 09:40:28 <doublec> smoething like http://arclanguage.org/forum
1666 2010-12-01 09:40:59 <noagendamarket> thats nice and simple
1667 2010-12-01 09:41:20 <jrabbit> doublec: I tried getting it to run and it failed
1668 2010-12-01 09:41:24 <jrabbit> best of luck to you
1669 2010-12-01 09:41:25 <jrabbit> :P
1670 2010-12-01 09:41:39 <doublec> jrabbit, reddit or the arc forums?
1671 2010-12-01 09:41:44 <jrabbit> arc.
1672 2010-12-01 09:41:54 <doublec> ah right
1673 2010-12-01 09:41:59 <jrabbit> well arc's news.arc
1674 2010-12-01 09:42:10 <doublec> the programmer in me says it might be easier to write from scratch
1675 2010-12-01 09:42:17 <jrabbit> reddit I got to work but it was a pain to find anything
1676 2010-12-01 09:42:18 <doublec> the realist in me realizes I'd never end up doing that ;)
1677 2010-12-01 09:42:19 <TheAncientGoat> Where's the source for those?
1678 2010-12-01 09:42:26 <noagendamarket> lol
1679 2010-12-01 09:42:41 <jrabbit> v2ex is a nice small GAE-able python forum
1680 2010-12-01 09:42:54 <jrabbit> https://github.com/reddit/reddit
1681 2010-12-01 09:43:18 <jrabbit> https://github.com/nex3/arc
1682 2010-12-01 09:44:23 <TheAncientGoat> I know python better than lisp-likes
1683 2010-12-01 09:44:41 <doublec> I know lisp better than python :)
1684 2010-12-01 09:44:43 <TheAncientGoat> Although then again, I really suck at python so the amount I'd have to learn would be comparable
1685 2010-12-01 09:45:06 <doublec> on the other hand, arc looks painful to use since it's so new and is missing a lot of libraries and features.
1686 2010-12-01 09:46:09 * jrabbit is using his own python code atm
1687 2010-12-01 09:47:08 <TheAncientGoat> jrabbit: Using it for?
1688 2010-12-01 09:47:22 <jrabbit> rss downloading
1689 2010-12-01 09:47:33 <jrabbit> https://github.com/jrabbit/hitman
1690 2010-12-01 09:47:51 <TheAncientGoat> Oh cool :)
1691 2010-12-01 09:48:15 <TheAncientGoat> My goodness... Egenesis allows you to create characters with no password
1692 2010-12-01 09:48:25 <TheAncientGoat> -shivers-
1693 2010-12-01 09:50:19 <TheAncientGoat> But yeah, reddit might be quite a bit to bloated for what you'd need for my idea
1694 2010-12-01 09:50:28 <TheAncientGoat> /but/
1695 2010-12-01 09:51:00 <TheAncientGoat> it gives you a biiiig potential user base. Imagine if they where to backport your code?
1696 2010-12-01 09:53:38 <jrabbit> just make it a DNS extension?
1697 2010-12-01 09:53:49 <jrabbit> er
1698 2010-12-01 09:53:58 <jrabbit> all you need is a keystore
1699 2010-12-01 09:53:59 <jrabbit> :S
1700 2010-12-01 09:55:18 <altamic> jrabbit knows Netsukuku heh
1701 2010-12-01 09:55:23 <TheAncientGoat> Hmm?
1702 2010-12-01 10:17:13 Rawnasaurus has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
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1712 2010-12-01 10:24:32 <noagendamarket> the .p2p guys are discussing whether to use bitcoin for purchasing domains :)
1713 2010-12-01 10:25:13 <doublec> nice
1714 2010-12-01 10:27:03 <TheAncientGoat> noagendamarket: nice indeed
1715 2010-12-01 10:27:35 <jrabbit> heh
1716 2010-12-01 10:27:50 <jrabbit> wait why would they need money?
1717 2010-12-01 10:28:03 <jrabbit> for hosting the root server?
1718 2010-12-01 10:28:33 <noagendamarket> No most likely to stop mass domain squatting
1719 2010-12-01 10:28:50 <noagendamarket> the proceeds will most likely be donated to the eff
1720 2010-12-01 10:30:09 <jrabbit> sounds reasonable then
1721 2010-12-01 10:31:19 <TheAncientGoat> Yup
1722 2010-12-01 10:31:20 <noagendamarket> Sounds like a hashcash system lol
1723 2010-12-01 10:33:44 <TheAncientGoat> doublec: Should I make a selfpost in /r/bitcoin for my idea?
1724 2010-12-01 10:34:07 <doublec> TheAncientGoat, sounds like a good idea
1725 2010-12-01 10:34:23 <TheAncientGoat> For the entireity of 15 readers ;)
1726 2010-12-01 10:34:28 <noagendamarket> lol
1727 2010-12-01 10:34:38 <doublec> hehe
1728 2010-12-01 10:35:05 <TheAncientGoat> The bitcoin forums might be a better place, but somehow I doubt it would be overly effective either
1729 2010-12-01 10:40:16 <TheAncientGoat> doublec: Hah, we should give everyone who joins /r/bitcoin .5 bitcoins, that should get us a couple of readers ;)
1730 2010-12-01 10:40:59 <noagendamarket> I think people are suffering charity fatigue lol
1731 2010-12-01 10:42:59 <TheAncientGoat> I gave 5bc to the faucet :)
1732 2010-12-01 10:44:09 <jrabbit> :|
1733 2010-12-01 10:44:34 <jrabbit> 57% of Arabs supposedly think Iran getting nuclear capcity would have a positive effect on the region
1734 2010-12-01 10:44:35 <doublec> I'm surprised we don't get people begging for coins ni the channel
1735 2010-12-01 10:45:10 Denizzz__ has joined
1736 2010-12-01 10:45:33 <Denizzz__> anyone can say how build pooled ming for linux?
1737 2010-12-01 10:45:51 <Denizzz__> pooled mining*
1738 2010-12-01 10:46:04 <doublec> yep
1739 2010-12-01 10:46:10 <doublec> install cmake
1740 2010-12-01 10:46:15 <Denizzz__> done
1741 2010-12-01 10:46:22 <doublec> edit cmake-bitcoinr/CMakeList.txt
1742 2010-12-01 10:46:29 <doublec> change all instances of 'bitcoind' to 'bitcoinr'
1743 2010-12-01 10:46:40 <Denizzz__> what means "r" ?
1744 2010-12-01 10:46:45 <doublec> 'remote'
1745 2010-12-01 10:46:48 <doublec> bitcoinr is the remote miner
1746 2010-12-01 10:47:33 <doublec> edit CMakeList.txt in the root of the bitcoin-remote directory, change to OFF the lines for
1747 2010-12-01 10:47:38 <doublec> BITCOIN_ENABLE_CUDE
1748 2010-12-01 10:47:42 <doublec> BITCOIN_ENABLE_OPENCL
1749 2010-12-01 10:47:48 <doublec> BITCOIN_BUILD_GUI
1750 2010-12-01 10:47:54 <doublec> and BITCOIN_BUILD_DAEMON
1751 2010-12-01 10:48:03 <Denizzz__> yes
1752 2010-12-01 10:48:05 <doublec> change BITCOIN_BUILD_REMOTE_MINER to ON
1753 2010-12-01 10:48:10 <doublec> that should be the only one set to ON
1754 2010-12-01 10:48:30 <doublec> at line 58-60, delete these lines
1755 2010-12-01 10:48:40 <Denizzz__> cmake-bitcoinr/CMakeList.txt is empty
1756 2010-12-01 10:48:49 <TheAncientGoat> Would a folding@home style setup be efficient mining wise?
1757 2010-12-01 10:49:01 <doublec> Denizzz__, sorry cmake-bitcoinr/CMakeLists.txt
1758 2010-12-01 10:49:21 <kermit> TheAncientGoat: you need an high end ATI graphics card to be power efficient
1759 2010-12-01 10:49:36 <TheAncientGoat> Because it would be pretty cool/evil to include a miner inside a game
1760 2010-12-01 10:49:54 <doublec> Denizzz__, once you've made those changes, do: cmake .
1761 2010-12-01 10:49:58 <noagendamarket> I thought bitcoin was a game...you need a gpu to play
1762 2010-12-01 10:50:02 <doublec> and it will generate the makefile
1763 2010-12-01 10:50:03 <doublec> them run make
1764 2010-12-01 10:50:07 <noagendamarket> :P
1765 2010-12-01 10:50:08 <TheAncientGoat> noagendamarket: Hehe
1766 2010-12-01 10:50:21 <doublec> after that, the remote miner is: cmake-bitcoinr/bitcoinr
1767 2010-12-01 10:50:44 <doublec> I'll prepare a patched source distribution that does all this tomorrow...
1768 2010-12-01 10:51:23 <TheAncientGoat> But yeah, I don't think it would be too immoral to release a game for free that acts as a big botnet to generate bitcoins in a distributed manner, especially if it's disclosed
1769 2010-12-01 10:52:49 <Denizzz__> <doublec> change all instances of 'bitcoind' to 'bitcoinr'
1770 2010-12-01 10:53:03 <Denizzz__> cmake-bitcoinr/CMakeLists.txt does not contains 'bitcoind'
1771 2010-12-01 10:53:32 <doublec> Denizzz__, in the TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES lines
1772 2010-12-01 10:53:45 <TheAncientGoat> doublec: Ah, your pooled method sounds kinda like what I'm talking about
1773 2010-12-01 10:54:08 <doublec> Denizzz__, it should be: TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES(bitcoinr ${Boost_LIBRARIES} ${OPENSSL_LIBRARIES})
1774 2010-12-01 10:54:16 <doublec> originally that 'bitcoinr' was 'bitcoind'
1775 2010-12-01 10:54:25 <doublec> also the line two lines after that one
1776 2010-12-01 10:54:31 <xelister> TheAncientGoat: you need 5770 or 5970 radeon to make sens, basically
1777 2010-12-01 10:54:39 <Denizzz__> oh, sorry, I found it
1778 2010-12-01 10:56:08 <TheAncientGoat> xelister: Meh, it doesn't have to be power efficient, I'm not paying the power bills ;)
1779 2010-12-01 10:58:45 <TheAncientGoat> Would 1000 people providing 1k hash each = a 1m hash net?
1780 2010-12-01 10:58:55 <doublec> yep
1781 2010-12-01 10:59:06 <TheAncientGoat> Or does it introduce inefficiency?
1782 2010-12-01 10:59:14 <Denizzz__> doublec:
1783 2010-12-01 10:59:15 <Denizzz__> $ cmake .
1784 2010-12-01 10:59:16 <Denizzz__> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:59 (MESSAGE):
1785 2010-12-01 10:59:16 <Denizzz__> Nothing to build. You must build either the GUI or Daemon.
1786 2010-12-01 10:59:22 <doublec> I suspect the large number of clients would result in ineffeciancies
1787 2010-12-01 10:59:57 <TheAncientGoat> Hmm. What's the standard mining hash speed at the moment?
1788 2010-12-01 11:00:13 <doublec> Denizzz__, did you edit the CMakeLists.txt in the root directory of the archive?
1789 2010-12-01 11:00:17 <doublec> at line 58-60
1790 2010-12-01 11:00:21 <doublec> delete them
1791 2010-12-01 11:00:29 <Denizzz__> doublec: yes
1792 2010-12-01 11:00:34 <doublec> the ones that say "you must build the gui or daemon"
1793 2010-12-01 11:00:56 <doublec> you can't have because that's what that error message is saying at line 59 of CMakeLists.txt :)
1794 2010-12-01 11:01:07 <Denizzz__> doublec: what cmake format uses for comments?
1795 2010-12-01 11:01:10 <Denizzz__> # ?
1796 2010-12-01 11:01:14 <doublec> I have no idea
1797 2010-12-01 11:01:17 <doublec> I just deleted them
1798 2010-12-01 11:01:17 <Denizzz__> ok
1799 2010-12-01 11:01:31 <doublec> all I know about cmake I know from guessing while editing the bitcoin files :)
1800 2010-12-01 11:02:11 * Denizzz__ hate build systems for C++
1801 2010-12-01 11:02:17 <doublec> me too
1802 2010-12-01 11:02:36 <Denizzz__> They are all is crap
1803 2010-12-01 11:02:43 darrob has joined
1804 2010-12-01 11:03:38 <Denizzz__> # works for cmake comments
1805 2010-12-01 11:04:50 <doublec> I'm adding these instructions to the bitcoin-pool page
1806 2010-12-01 11:05:28 <Denizzz__> ok
1807 2010-12-01 11:08:29 <Xunie> ;;seen Sirius_
1808 2010-12-01 11:08:29 <gribble> Sirius_ was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 hours, 55 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Sirius_> is someone ddossing again or something?
1809 2010-12-01 11:10:09 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1810 2010-12-01 11:12:05 <doublec> Denizzz__, instructions updated here: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1811 2010-12-01 11:12:13 <Denizzz__> ok, thanks
1812 2010-12-01 11:12:27 <Denizzz__> I installing boost and some stuff
1813 2010-12-01 11:12:33 <TheAncientGoat> wow, what happened on the day that mtgox sold 15k bitcoins?
1814 2010-12-01 11:12:34 <doublec> yeah needs boost and openssl
1815 2010-12-01 11:12:58 <doublec> you should see what a mission it is to build on windows
1816 2010-12-01 11:13:23 <doublec> step 1 - find and build cmake. good luck with that. step 2. find and build dozens of third party libraries. 3. give up.
1817 2010-12-01 11:13:58 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: ~5 oct ?
1818 2010-12-01 11:14:01 <doublec> worse, it triggers an bug inoptimized builds on windows using microsoft visual C++ so that hashes are generated incorrectly.
1819 2010-12-01 11:14:30 <Denizzz__> doublec: yes, I am C++ developer :) and I am use cmake too, but ~2 years before
1820 2010-12-01 11:14:48 <Denizzz__> used*
1821 2010-12-01 11:14:50 <TheAncientGoat> Denizzz__: No, yesterday
1822 2010-12-01 11:14:58 akem_ has joined
1823 2010-12-01 11:16:31 <TheAncientGoat> Denizzz__: I see the event you're talking about though
1824 2010-12-01 11:16:32 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: exchange is for selling and buying :)
1825 2010-12-01 11:16:54 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: this is was carders attack
1826 2010-12-01 11:17:23 <TheAncientGoat> Carders attack?
1827 2010-12-01 11:18:00 <TheAncientGoat> Man, I can't believe coins sold for $0.5 at a point 0.o
1828 2010-12-01 11:18:51 <xelister> doublec: I could make a crossbuildable version
1829 2010-12-01 11:19:03 <doublec> xelister, that would be great
1830 2010-12-01 11:19:06 <xelister> doublec: then on normal OS (linux) you can create your .exe for windows
1831 2010-12-01 11:19:27 <xelister> doublec: are you mining with GPU, btw?
1832 2010-12-01 11:19:32 <doublec> xelister, no
1833 2010-12-01 11:19:39 <doublec> I don't have a gpu and no remote gpu client
1834 2010-12-01 11:20:00 <doublec> If someone doesn't beat me to it I'll look at doing an opencl remote mining client
1835 2010-12-01 11:20:38 <xelister> doublec: I beat you to it
1836 2010-12-01 11:20:47 <doublec> hehe
1837 2010-12-01 11:20:48 <xelister> doublec: but help is wellcommed :)
1838 2010-12-01 11:21:04 <xelister> doublec: can you code java? Diablo-D3's miner looks reasonable to base on, it is in java
1839 2010-12-01 11:21:26 <doublec> I can but I don't have a gpu capable machine yet. I'll be getting one in a couple of weeks.
1840 2010-12-01 11:21:37 <xelister> this is not a problem
1841 2010-12-01 11:21:54 <xelister> you can build and test the GPU miner without a true GPU - because OpenCL can use the normal CPU as a GPU
1842 2010-12-01 11:22:13 <doublec> nice
1843 2010-12-01 11:22:14 <xelister> it will be of course not actually mining faster, but you can see if the opencl miner is working
1844 2010-12-01 11:22:40 <jrabbit> xelister: neat got a link?
1845 2010-12-01 11:22:46 <xelister> jrabbit: link to what?
1846 2010-12-01 11:22:49 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: yes, carders. they buyed many coins without cary about prices
1847 2010-12-01 11:22:50 <jrabbit> I'll test on mac 10.6
1848 2010-12-01 11:22:55 <xelister> to the miner we're creating etc? soon
1849 2010-12-01 11:22:57 <Xunie> bitcoin.org works!
1850 2010-12-01 11:23:00 <jrabbit> k
1851 2010-12-01 11:23:00 <jrabbit> :)
1852 2010-12-01 11:23:19 <xelister> link to use CPU as GPU? basically take Diablo-D3's miner for example and change the flag that selects the opencl devices, imho (still working on it)
1853 2010-12-01 11:23:49 <Denizzz__> 'cary'? :) I mean 'without regard to price'
1854 2010-12-01 11:24:38 nathan7_ has joined
1855 2010-12-01 11:24:54 <doublec> jrabbit, I have Intels beta OpenCL SDK for x86 but haven't installed it yet. It's windows only at the moment but is an OpenCL library for the cpu.
1856 2010-12-01 11:25:08 nathan7_ has quit (Changing host)
1857 2010-12-01 11:25:08 nathan7_ has joined
1858 2010-12-01 11:25:23 nathan7 has quit (Disconnected by services)
1859 2010-12-01 11:25:24 <jrabbit> doublec: OS 10.6 has it ;)
1860 2010-12-01 11:25:28 nathan7_ is now known as nathan7
1861 2010-12-01 11:25:40 <doublec> yeah, them Mac users are always a step ahead ;)
1862 2010-12-01 11:25:45 <jrabbit> "Gravitational anarchy" hah
1863 2010-12-01 11:26:22 <xelister> doublec: jrabbit: would you consider a bounty/donation for 1) making bitcoin crossbuildable 2) remote opencl miner sending money to the master ?
1864 2010-12-01 11:26:56 <jrabbit> crossbuildable? no. removing the wx symbols in the cli version? FUCK YES.
1865 2010-12-01 11:27:23 <jrabbit> xelister: scripting that would be fairly easy.
1866 2010-12-01 11:27:26 <Denizzz__> doublec: how fast opencl miner from pool mining src?
1867 2010-12-01 11:27:27 <jrabbit> the second item
1868 2010-12-01 11:27:37 <doublec> Denizzz__, I haven't tried it
1869 2010-12-01 11:27:46 <Denizzz__> doublec: as stand alone opencl miner?
1870 2010-12-01 11:27:51 <Denizzz__> same source?
1871 2010-12-01 11:27:59 <xelister> 1) crossbuildable (for windows, I do not know about mac, but some fixes make it generally more portable) is in steps: a) make bitcoinD.exe on linux =50 BTC(almost done) b) same but with working parsing of config file =150 BTC c) same but with gui (bitcoin.exe) probabl 500 BTC
1872 2010-12-01 11:28:07 <doublec> Yes, you can build bitcoind and bitcoin gui with opencl support from that source
1873 2010-12-01 11:28:11 <Denizzz__> xelister: lol
1874 2010-12-01 11:28:15 <doublec> supposedly - I haven't used it
1875 2010-12-01 11:28:27 <Denizzz__> doublec: ok
1876 2010-12-01 11:28:46 <xelister> jrabbit: removing symbols from bitcoinD ? that sounds possible. do you really have wx symbols there? show me how you build it and what symbols you see
1877 2010-12-01 11:29:02 <jrabbit> xelister: you have to have wx to build bitcoind.
1878 2010-12-01 11:29:06 <xelister> no
1879 2010-12-01 11:29:13 <jrabbit> yeah... you do.
1880 2010-12-01 11:29:14 <xelister> jrabbit: make bitcoind (not make) note the "d"
1881 2010-12-01 11:29:25 <jrabbit> xelister: nope!
1882 2010-12-01 11:29:34 <doublec> you don't need wx to build bitcoind
1883 2010-12-01 11:29:47 <doublec> surely
1884 2010-12-01 11:29:50 <jrabbit> when I did you needed it.
1885 2010-12-01 11:30:00 <jrabbit> it uses non GUI elements of the wx code.
1886 2010-12-01 11:30:04 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1887 2010-12-01 11:30:04 <doublec> maybe my system already has it...let me check
1888 2010-12-01 11:30:11 <jrabbit> doublec: probably
1889 2010-12-01 11:30:16 <xelister> jrabbit: you have wx symbols inside bitcoind? note the "d" at end
1890 2010-12-01 11:30:32 <jrabbit> xelister: they should be there becauseI had to
1891 2010-12-01 11:30:33 <xelister> doublec: that is probable, since many programs use wx
1892 2010-12-01 11:30:52 <xelister> jrabbit: ok. Would you like to set any bounty to fix it then?
1893 2010-12-01 11:31:15 <xelister> jrabbit: please paste me somewhere: file bitcoind and the error message about missing wx symbols that you get when running ./bitcoind
1894 2010-12-01 11:31:20 sgornick has joined
1895 2010-12-01 11:31:28 <xelister> $file bitcoind
1896 2010-12-01 11:31:58 <jrabbit> whats the linux equivalent to dyldinfo ?
1897 2010-12-01 11:32:08 <xelister> nm filename ?
1898 2010-12-01 11:32:34 <jrabbit> nm: bitcoin: no symbols
1899 2010-12-01 11:32:40 <xelister> or ld
1900 2010-12-01 11:32:52 <jrabbit> dyldinfo can inspect binaries and list linked libraries
1901 2010-12-01 11:32:58 <xelister> so, ld
1902 2010-12-01 11:33:16 <xelister> no, wait
1903 2010-12-01 11:33:18 <xelister> ldd
1904 2010-12-01 11:33:30 <xelister> jrabbit: NOT bitcoin
1905 2010-12-01 11:33:32 <xelister> but bitcoind
1906 2010-12-01 11:34:03 <xelister> I already have no wx symbols in bitcoind
1907 2010-12-01 11:34:24 <jrabbit> theres no "wx" in bitcoin ethier :P
1908 2010-12-01 11:34:30 <jrabbit> so thats not a
1909 2010-12-01 11:34:47 <doublec> jrabbit, it must have changed. I can definitely build without wxwindows.
1910 2010-12-01 11:34:55 <jrabbit> I guess
1911 2010-12-01 11:35:02 <doublec> using latest svn
1912 2010-12-01 11:35:18 <doublec> and: make bitcoind
1913 2010-12-01 11:35:53 <xelister> well, ldd bitcoin shows cario,pango,glib,libX*,libfreetype and so on - that wx brought in
1914 2010-12-01 11:36:16 <xelister> apparently the wx itself if linked in statically, but wx's dependencies (system libs of libX*,gnome,pango etc) are dynamical
1915 2010-12-01 11:37:15 <xelister> jrabbit: so thats why bitcoin will not work if you dont have entire X/gnome libs installed, and bitcoind (-d !) will work :)
1916 2010-12-01 11:37:32 <jrabbit> irrelevant
1917 2010-12-01 11:37:50 <jrabbit> http://pastie.org/1338012
1918 2010-12-01 11:38:20 <jrabbit> odd
1919 2010-12-01 11:39:07 <xelister> jrabbit: what is the exact problem you are trying to fix?
1920 2010-12-01 11:39:32 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1921 2010-12-01 11:40:45 <jrabbit> rpc.cpp: wxString outFileName(argv[2]);
1922 2010-12-01 11:40:47 <jrabbit> ^
1923 2010-12-01 11:40:54 <jrabbit> this is probably changed
1924 2010-12-01 11:40:57 nathan7 has joined
1925 2010-12-01 11:41:09 <jrabbit> I can check for that now I know wtf I'm looking for
1926 2010-12-01 11:41:23 <doublec> jrabbit, yeah no wxString usage in rpc.cpp anymore
1927 2010-12-01 11:41:30 <jrabbit> k
1928 2010-12-01 11:41:35 <jrabbit> awesome!
1929 2010-12-01 11:47:30 altamic_ has joined
1930 2010-12-01 11:48:19 <xelister> we should give this porting patches to satoshi
1931 2010-12-01 11:57:19 <Denizzz__> I do not like that there are many sources trees
1932 2010-12-01 11:58:06 <Denizzz__> One git, one community, one bitcoin!
1933 2010-12-01 12:01:13 <TheAncientGoat> Denizzz__: That kind of defeats the point of git :\
1934 2010-12-01 12:04:55 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: why?
1935 2010-12-01 12:05:40 <Denizzz__> I look at the Linux kernel and see that it is one
1936 2010-12-01 12:05:50 <Denizzz__> with many many options
1937 2010-12-01 12:06:07 <Denizzz__> And it is convenient for end users
1938 2010-12-01 12:06:10 <TheAncientGoat> Oh, there should be a central one
1939 2010-12-01 12:06:31 <TheAncientGoat> But the way git works is everyone has a local tree anyhow
1940 2010-12-01 12:07:19 <Denizzz__> yes, but all trees is merged to Satoshi's tree before it will be distributed, compiled and used by many users
1941 2010-12-01 12:07:24 <TheAncientGoat> Whether you have a tree hosted on another site, that lets everyone access it is just a matter of convenience
1942 2010-12-01 12:08:09 <Denizzz__> Linux development model seems suitable for bitcoin is better than for Linux.
1943 2010-12-01 12:08:20 <Denizzz__> better suitable*
1944 2010-12-01 12:09:28 <TheAncientGoat> https://github.com/mirrors/linux-2.6/network
1945 2010-12-01 12:09:34 <TheAncientGoat> Look at all those trees ;)
1946 2010-12-01 12:10:30 <altamic_> actually git does not force any particular workflow
1947 2010-12-01 12:10:39 <altamic_> http://whygitisbetterthanx.com/#any-workflow
1948 2010-12-01 12:10:54 <TheAncientGoat> altamic_: Sure, it doesn't force any workflow
1949 2010-12-01 12:11:15 <TheAncientGoat> But using a distributed vcs/scm as a central one is silly, imo
1950 2010-12-01 12:12:48 <altamic_> I have had some use case for this
1951 2010-12-01 12:12:54 <altamic_> @ job
1952 2010-12-01 12:14:01 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: I just want to code that is responsible for sending the money has always been checked and signed by trusted people. System when someone accepts patches from various people and approves of them is best suited for this.
1953 2010-12-01 12:14:52 <TheAncientGoat> Denizzz__: Sure, I don't it could work otherwise
1954 2010-12-01 12:15:12 <TheAncientGoat> Which is why all the distributed workflow models involve being checked by an integration developer
1955 2010-12-01 12:15:46 <doublec> one advantage of having these multiple clients is there gets lots of testing of different ideas
1956 2010-12-01 12:15:51 <doublec> before they're integrated into the mainline
1957 2010-12-01 12:16:08 <doublec> getwork for example was used in alternate builds until a modified version made it into mainline
1958 2010-12-01 12:16:38 <Denizzz__> doublec: This does not negate my propos
1959 2010-12-01 12:16:42 <Denizzz__> al
1960 2010-12-01 12:18:12 <Denizzz__> Otherwise it can lead to infection by bad code and damage to the entire p2p network
1961 2010-12-01 12:18:47 <Denizzz__> Someone can distribute very fast generator, for example. But it will contain an error.
1962 2010-12-01 12:20:45 <xelister> doublec: s/modified/broken
1963 2010-12-01 12:20:58 <Denizzz__> or 'trojaned'
1964 2010-12-01 12:28:56 nelisky has joined
1965 2010-12-01 12:52:09 <Denizzz__> yep!1! btcex.com now trades japanese yen
1966 2010-12-01 13:05:07 nathan7_ has joined
1967 2010-12-01 13:06:14 <Denizzz__> https://github.com/mirrors/linux-2.6/network anyone can create branches of kernel on this site?
1968 2010-12-01 13:06:26 <Denizzz__> or only linus and his crew?
1969 2010-12-01 13:07:20 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1970 2010-12-01 13:12:13 mtgox has joined
1971 2010-12-01 13:16:33 nathan7_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1972 2010-12-01 13:18:23 <akem_> hi
1973 2010-12-01 13:18:50 <akem_> it would be nice if it was possible to change the language of the UI
1974 2010-12-01 13:19:00 <TheAncientGoat> Denizzz__: You don't create branches, you create new trees by forking
1975 2010-12-01 13:19:07 <TheAncientGoat> And anyone can fork
1976 2010-12-01 13:19:41 <Denizzz__> akem_: your OS?
1977 2010-12-01 13:19:51 <akem_> Denizzz__, Win7
1978 2010-12-01 13:20:00 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: I know. I saying about github
1979 2010-12-01 13:20:14 nathan7 has joined
1980 2010-12-01 13:20:18 <TheAncientGoat> Denizzz__: Yep
1981 2010-12-01 13:20:25 <TheAncientGoat> Press the fork button ;)
1982 2010-12-01 13:20:43 <TheAncientGoat> Just below the search bar
1983 2010-12-01 13:20:49 <TheAncientGoat> Anyone with an account can do so
1984 2010-12-01 13:21:47 <bill__> hardcore forking action :)
1985 2010-12-01 13:22:13 nathan7_ has joined
1986 2010-12-01 13:23:36 bv-falcon has joined
1987 2010-12-01 13:25:16 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1988 2010-12-01 13:27:45 nathan7_ has quit (Changing host)
1989 2010-12-01 13:27:45 nathan7_ has joined
1990 2010-12-01 13:27:48 nathan7_ is now known as nathan7
1991 2010-12-01 13:31:57 <altamic_> ;;bc
1992 2010-12-01 13:31:58 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
1993 2010-12-01 13:32:28 <altamic_> ;;help
1994 2010-12-01 13:32:29 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1995 2010-12-01 13:36:30 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1996 2010-12-01 13:41:53 <Diablo-D3> http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/01/visiontek-killer-hd-5770-combo-nic-gpu-hikes-frame-rates-lowe/
1997 2010-12-01 13:41:57 <Diablo-D3> are you fucking kidding me?
1998 2010-12-01 13:42:00 <Diablo-D3> fucking killer nics
1999 2010-12-01 13:42:03 <Diablo-D3> absolute shit
2000 2010-12-01 13:48:23 ArtForz has joined
2001 2010-12-01 13:50:52 <bill__> haha, reminds me of the "gaming" nics
2002 2010-12-01 13:51:16 <bill__> yes, let's optimise the component on which your packets spend an entire microsecond
2003 2010-12-01 13:52:11 <Denizzz__> TheAncientGoat: I thing forking on github implemented by creating branches
2004 2010-12-01 13:52:26 <Denizzz__> for disk economy
2005 2010-12-01 13:55:22 <Xunie> !facts
2006 2010-12-01 13:55:31 <Xunie> ;;facts
2007 2010-12-01 13:55:31 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
2008 2010-12-01 13:55:40 <Diablo-D3> bill__: yes, the easy way to optimize it is to just use gigabit the whole way to the server you're connected to
2009 2010-12-01 13:55:47 <Diablo-D3> it is also expensive.
2010 2010-12-01 13:55:58 <Diablo-D3> and the irony is
2011 2010-12-01 13:56:05 <Diablo-D3> 10gbit controllers are less complex than that thing
2012 2010-12-01 13:57:53 <Denizzz__> doublec: what linux you use? debian or ubuntu?
2013 2010-12-01 13:59:17 altamic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014 2010-12-01 14:00:18 altamic has joined
2015 2010-12-01 14:00:36 <Denizzz__> doublec: your boost version is 1.39?
2016 2010-12-01 14:05:51 <xelister> Diablo-D3: uh? how are NIC cards going to improve ping, WTF
2017 2010-12-01 14:06:21 <xelister> NIC card attributes to what, 0.01 ms of the ping time? the other 80.00 ms ping comes from network connection, duuuuh
2018 2010-12-01 14:06:55 <brocktice> Many people will see substantial improvement in their online gameplay with that card.
2019 2010-12-01 14:07:00 <xelister> boost - btw, bitcoin works fine with current boost versions too
2020 2010-12-01 14:07:10 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I already said this
2021 2010-12-01 14:07:12 <xelister> brocktice: thanks to the NIC part? what the fuck? are you serious
2022 2010-12-01 14:07:13 <brocktice> Thanks to the OBECALP technology it employs.
2023 2010-12-01 14:07:25 <xelister> this sounds like bullsthi
2024 2010-12-01 14:07:29 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt fix their ISP
2025 2010-12-01 14:07:30 <xelister> oh, indeed
2026 2010-12-01 14:07:50 <xelister> brocktice: ok, people may see improvment - if you put it this way
2027 2010-12-01 14:07:51 <Diablo-D3> and its still higher latency than, say, IB
2028 2010-12-01 14:08:32 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: WTF use is IB for online gaming though?
2029 2010-12-01 14:09:36 <Diablo-D3> you... wouldnt?
2030 2010-12-01 14:09:42 <Diablo-D3> I think you misunderstood the nature of my comment
2031 2010-12-01 14:09:47 <brocktice> yeah maybe
2032 2010-12-01 14:12:29 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2033 2010-12-01 14:24:19 <TheAncientGoat> Oh hey Diablo-D3 :)
2034 2010-12-01 14:29:00 Kiba has joined
2035 2010-12-01 14:32:17 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2036 2010-12-01 14:44:44 albatross has joined
2037 2010-12-01 14:50:06 * xelister sacrefices TheAncientGoat to the god of mtgox exchange rate
2038 2010-12-01 14:50:52 <xelister> god why did you forsaken me ;( 0.21 woot?
2039 2010-12-01 14:51:04 <TheAncientGoat> I've been sacrificed so many times... You know, god's don't like leftovers :P
2040 2010-12-01 14:51:18 <TheAncientGoat> Kiba: Nice drawing btw ;)
2041 2010-12-01 14:51:49 * Xunie makes shoarma out of TheAncientGoat
2042 2010-12-01 14:59:02 <xelister> hey, our sacrefice worked!
2043 2010-12-01 14:59:03 <xelister> https://www.bitcoinmarket.com/
2044 2010-12-01 14:59:11 <xelister> 1.5 USD for 1 BTC.... WAT???
2045 2010-12-01 15:07:22 Rawnasaurus has joined
2046 2010-12-01 15:08:53 <TheAncientGoat> Someone mistyped .15 :P
2047 2010-12-01 15:09:14 <xelister> well, he will be surprised
2048 2010-12-01 15:11:17 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2049 2010-12-01 15:11:37 Kiba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2050 2010-12-01 15:12:57 <Denizzz__> $ cmake .
2051 2010-12-01 15:12:57 <Denizzz__> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:106 (MESSAGE):
2052 2010-12-01 15:12:58 <Denizzz__> Could not locate BerkeleyDB
2053 2010-12-01 15:13:06 <Denizzz__> berkley db == db2 ?
2054 2010-12-01 15:13:38 <Denizzz__> bErkeley
2055 2010-12-01 15:13:44 <Denizzz__> )))
2056 2010-12-01 15:16:58 <Denizzz__> doublec: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/ after cmake . need make for binary building
2057 2010-12-01 15:17:21 <Denizzz__> doublec: and I get compiling error:
2058 2010-12-01 15:17:35 <Denizzz__> src/remote/../uint256.h:364: error: âVERSIONâ was not declared in this scope
2059 2010-12-01 15:18:22 <nanotube> Xunie: try ,,(apropos bc) :)
2060 2010-12-01 15:18:22 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
2061 2010-12-01 15:18:43 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
2062 2010-12-01 15:18:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94900 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1867 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 19 hours, 1 minute, and 58 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8881.17718095
2063 2010-12-01 15:28:54 <Xunie> what the
2064 2010-12-01 15:30:19 <nanotube> ?
2065 2010-12-01 15:30:32 <Xunie> nanotube, https://bitcoinmarket.com/
2066 2010-12-01 15:31:17 <brocktice> Xunie: typo
2067 2010-12-01 15:31:18 <nanotube> ah heh yea, looks like someone made a typo, maybe... and the market was thin enough for the order to go through at that price?
2068 2010-12-01 15:31:31 <brocktice> I'm guessing it will be reversed
2069 2010-12-01 15:31:34 <brocktice> I doubt the buyer will pay
2070 2010-12-01 15:31:55 <brocktice> look at -market, it hasn't been confirmed
2071 2010-12-01 15:32:02 <nanotube> well if i were the buyer, i probably wouldn't. :)
2072 2010-12-01 15:32:14 <Xunie> Well, only confirmed transactions should be going into the graph, IMHO.
2073 2010-12-01 15:32:22 <brocktice> oh wait is -market even showing bcm right now?
2074 2010-12-01 15:33:13 <nanotube> mm, seems like it's not... did the telnet connection bork out again...
2075 2010-12-01 15:33:28 <albatross> it looks like it was multiple trades set a few minutes apart...who makes the mistake a few times in a row
2076 2010-12-01 15:33:53 <Xunie> albatross, yeah, thus I think someone's trying to influence the market.
2077 2010-12-01 15:36:04 davex__ has joined
2078 2010-12-01 15:41:39 Rawnasaurus has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
2079 2010-12-01 15:49:05 bv-falcon has quit ()
2080 2010-12-01 16:02:28 akem_ is now known as akem
2081 2010-12-01 16:03:03 samfisher has joined
2082 2010-12-01 16:03:08 <samfisher> how the f??
2083 2010-12-01 16:03:20 <samfisher> bitcoin almost 8 times
2084 2010-12-01 16:04:06 altamic has joined
2085 2010-12-01 16:04:27 <TheAncientGoat> samfisher: bitcoin accidentally 8 times?
2086 2010-12-01 16:04:54 <samfisher> TheAncientGoat: I don't understand
2087 2010-12-01 16:04:58 <samfisher> is it for real?
2088 2010-12-01 16:05:30 <Denizzz__> don't panic, its just typo
2089 2010-12-01 16:05:52 <Denizzz__> bitcoinmarket do not support limit orders, yes?
2090 2010-12-01 16:06:06 <samfisher> :(
2091 2010-12-01 16:06:14 <Denizzz__> does not*
2092 2010-12-01 16:06:42 <jgarzik> Denizzz__: ? I thought all orders were limit orders. You pick a price. It won't execute unless that price is hit.
2093 2010-12-01 16:06:53 <jgarzik> BCM does not support market orders
2094 2010-12-01 16:07:15 <Denizzz__> jgarzik: limit order can be dividet into small pieces
2095 2010-12-01 16:07:20 <Denizzz__> divided
2096 2010-12-01 16:07:46 <jgarzik> Denizzz__: your BCM order might be partially filled, or filled in small pieces.
2097 2010-12-01 16:08:22 <Denizzz__> jgarzik: I do not know, its was question
2098 2010-12-01 16:08:39 <jgarzik> I do know; it was a statement not a question :)
2099 2010-12-01 16:09:24 Zarutian_ has joined
2100 2010-12-01 16:09:46 <Denizzz__> jgarzik: ok)
2101 2010-12-01 16:13:54 <Denizzz__> jgarzik: can you add yen to bitcoinwatch?
2102 2010-12-01 16:14:13 <jgarzik> Denizzz__: yes
2103 2010-12-01 16:14:23 <jgarzik> Denizzz__: that is much more interesting than WMR
2104 2010-12-01 16:14:40 <Denizzz__> why knows...
2105 2010-12-01 16:15:22 <Denizzz__> WMR very popular in exUSSR, more popular whan LR or AP or pecunix etc
2106 2010-12-01 16:16:10 <Denizzz__> WMR very popular in exUSSR, more popular whan LR or AP or pecunix etc in whole world
2107 2010-12-01 16:17:05 <Denizzz__> who knows*
2108 2010-12-01 16:18:12 <nanotube> Denizzz__: is there any nice queryable json output for btcex, as far as bid/ask/last info?
2109 2010-12-01 16:18:29 <nanotube> something like ,,(bc,mtgox)
2110 2010-12-01 16:18:29 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.225,"low":0.2065,"vol":7839,"buy":0.2101,"sell":0.223,"last":0.2095}}
2111 2010-12-01 16:18:32 <Denizzz__> https://btcex.com/ticker.json
2112 2010-12-01 16:18:43 <tcatm> Anyone know how to get JPY/BTC trade data from btcex without cookies? :)
2113 2010-12-01 16:18:54 samfisher has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
2114 2010-12-01 16:19:16 <Denizzz__> tcatm: coming soon :)
2115 2010-12-01 16:30:38 <tcatm> Will you make the orderbook available (like bcm or mtgox)?
2116 2010-12-01 16:32:10 <Denizzz__> tcatm: it is really need?
2117 2010-12-01 16:32:22 <xelister> guys, someone here would like a option to conferse to PLN
2118 2010-12-01 16:32:48 <jgarzik> Denizzz__: BCM and mtgox make order book available, so we are used to having it
2119 2010-12-01 16:32:55 <Denizzz__> This is not a priority for us now. In our tracker about 60 bugs. )
2120 2010-12-01 16:33:12 aceat64 has joined
2121 2010-12-01 16:33:38 <tcatm> It's useful for some traders.
2122 2010-12-01 16:34:13 <Denizzz__> tcatm: what about market depth chart?
2123 2010-12-01 16:34:41 <Denizzz__> it provides same info, and it will be implemented in short time
2124 2010-12-01 16:35:02 <tcatm> Will it provide price-volume pairs?
2125 2010-12-01 16:35:10 <Denizzz__> yes
2126 2010-12-01 16:35:42 <tcatm> That's all I need.
2127 2010-12-01 16:35:54 <Denizzz__> as https://mtgox.com/trade/history but more smooth
2128 2010-12-01 16:36:00 <Denizzz__> https://mtgox.com/trade/megaChart wow!
2129 2010-12-01 16:36:03 <tcatm> smooth?
2130 2010-12-01 16:38:11 <Denizzz__> tcatm: yes, as in https://mtgox.com/trade/megaChart (see to left side) and not as in https://mtgox.com/trade/history (click to depth of market)
2131 2010-12-01 16:39:10 <Denizzz__> Someday I will make a three-dimensional graph of changes in market depth. :)
2132 2010-12-01 16:39:30 <Denizzz__> I earn what flash suppots 3D
2133 2010-12-01 16:39:50 <Denizzz__> Heard*
2134 2010-12-01 16:40:12 <tcatm> I'd rather have raw price-volume pairs than accumulated volume.
2135 2010-12-01 16:40:28 <xelister> tcatm: that is on Deth chart, not mega
2136 2010-12-01 16:40:38 <xelister> Denizzz__: flash is for faggots
2137 2010-12-01 16:41:34 <Denizzz__> tcatm: We implement raw orderbook, do not worry.
2138 2010-12-01 16:42:40 <Denizzz__> This is done in 10 minutes. But those 10 minutes we have accumulated 60 pieces :)
2139 2010-12-01 16:43:12 <mtgox> why do you need 3 dimensions?
2140 2010-12-01 16:43:44 <xelister> 3-D makes everything pop
2141 2010-12-01 16:43:47 <xelister> ;)
2142 2010-12-01 16:44:56 <Denizzz__> mtgox: just for fun)
2143 2010-12-01 16:45:25 <tcatm> mtgox: Would it be possible to get the whole order book (without cropping at 0.16/0.35)?
2144 2010-12-01 16:45:26 <xelister> are there any deep markets other then mtgox?
2145 2010-12-01 16:47:20 <Denizzz__> We seem to be working in width, not to depth
2146 2010-12-01 16:47:21 <Denizzz__> :)
2147 2010-12-01 16:51:24 jacobfan has joined
2148 2010-12-01 16:53:26 <Denizzz__> mtgox: idea: have you tried to show the depth of the market filled with horizontal stripes? when greater volume then darker shading
2149 2010-12-01 16:55:06 <Denizzz__> it will increase loading of the db
2150 2010-12-01 16:56:12 <nanotube> tcatm: hey btw, on your market depth display... i think it would be better if the scaling of the order-size bars was the same between bids and asks.
2151 2010-12-01 16:56:48 <nanotube> tcatm: currently each uses a different scaling (with full-bar being 'max size bid/ask' for each), which can be a little misleading when trying to see the relative depth between bids and asks.
2152 2010-12-01 16:57:01 <tcatm> good idea. Actually that's commented out in the code but I had that in mind...
2153 2010-12-01 16:57:40 Zarutian_ has left ()
2154 2010-12-01 17:00:40 <tcatm> changed it
2155 2010-12-01 17:00:54 <Denizzz__> tcatm: I think better use code JPY for Yen
2156 2010-12-01 17:01:03 <Denizzz__> ISO standard
2157 2010-12-01 17:02:16 KingGurke has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2158 2010-12-01 17:03:14 <nanotube> tcatm: great :)
2159 2010-12-01 17:10:33 <TheAncientGoat> doublec: Still around
2160 2010-12-01 17:10:34 <TheAncientGoat> ?
2161 2010-12-01 17:10:42 jacobfan has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2162 2010-12-01 17:11:08 <MT`AwAy> yep, JPY is better for yen as other currencies are also called "yen"
2163 2010-12-01 17:17:40 chaord has joined
2164 2010-12-01 17:17:56 chaord has left ()
2165 2010-12-01 17:19:21 <nanotube> a bunch of untrades on bcm for that $1.5/btc :)
2166 2010-12-01 17:21:23 dwdollar has left ()
2167 2010-12-01 17:23:57 dwdollar1 has joined
2168 2010-12-01 17:24:11 <UukGoblin> what's up?
2169 2010-12-01 17:24:33 <UukGoblin> I mean, what's up with that $1.5/btc? ;-]
2170 2010-12-01 17:24:50 <dwdollar1> I don't know, but I took the liberty of canceling those trades.
2171 2010-12-01 17:24:58 <UukGoblin> yup, noticed :-]
2172 2010-12-01 17:25:35 <brocktice> dwdollar1: did you hear anything from the buyer?
2173 2010-12-01 17:25:47 <dwdollar1> no, I haven't
2174 2010-12-01 17:28:55 <Denizzz__> maybe he wants to cause a panic?
2175 2010-12-01 17:28:58 <dwdollar1> His last trades were back in July though. So he probably forgot how to work it.
2176 2010-12-01 17:29:45 <dwdollar1> Actually, I cancelled those too.
2177 2010-12-01 17:30:09 <xelister> that reminds me of something!!!
2178 2010-12-01 17:30:10 <dwdollar1> so all his trades have been cancelled...
2179 2010-12-01 17:30:18 <xelister> I know why the 1.5 trade :> wait, have to find it ..
2180 2010-12-01 17:31:51 <xelister> ah, here it is
2181 2010-12-01 17:31:53 <xelister> http://www.hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2005-06-24
2182 2010-12-01 17:34:35 <dwdollar1> hehe...
2183 2010-12-01 17:39:09 <albatross> why are you cancelling trades if neither seller or buyer complained?
2184 2010-12-01 17:45:30 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2185 2010-12-01 17:50:52 <xelister> dwdollar1: btw, what is actually depth of your market, as in, how many BTCs can be now sold at 0.28
2186 2010-12-01 17:51:10 <nanotube> ;;bc,bcm
2187 2010-12-01 17:51:12 <gribble> [{"pair": "BCUSD[MoneyBookers]", "ask": 0.0, "bid": 0.095000000000000001, "time": 1291225855}, {"pair": "BCGAU[Pecunix]", "ask": 0.0061999999999999998, "bid": 0.0045999999999999999, "time": 1291225855}, {"pair": "BCUSD[PayPal]", "ask": 0.27000000000000002, "bid": 0.20999999999999999, "time": 1291225855}, {"pair": "BCUSD[LibertyReserve]", "ask": 0.25, "bid": 0.17000000000000001, "time": (1 more message)
2188 2010-12-01 17:51:23 <nanotube> xelister: none can be sold at .28 :P
2189 2010-12-01 17:51:53 <xelister> 0.2100 0.4900 1.6000 100 .... what this means
2190 2010-12-01 17:52:00 <xelister> bid ask price volume
2191 2010-12-01 17:52:32 <xelister> mtgox: is the code for your site and/or for mega graph publicly available?
2192 2010-12-01 17:52:33 <JudStephenson> ;;bc,calc 144000
2193 2010-12-01 17:52:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 144000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 41 seconds
2194 2010-12-01 18:03:11 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 1700000
2195 2010-12-01 18:03:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 hours, 40 minutes, and 9 seconds
2196 2010-12-01 18:03:56 <JudStephenson> brocktice: what do you have that generates that fast?
2197 2010-12-01 18:04:04 <dwdollar1> albatross: Usually I do contact both parties, but if it was something malicious, he wouldn't bother replying anyway. Meanwhile, there's >BC 10,000 tied up in bogus sales. I'm just exercising some discretion...
2198 2010-12-01 18:04:09 <brocktice> JudStephenson: 2 5970s and 2 5770s, all overclocked
2199 2010-12-01 18:04:19 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 15366000
2200 2010-12-01 18:04:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15366000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 37 minutes and 37 seconds
2201 2010-12-01 18:04:25 <brocktice> :)
2202 2010-12-01 18:04:28 <brocktice> Art wins, as usual
2203 2010-12-01 18:04:28 <JudStephenson> nice
2204 2010-12-01 18:04:44 <brocktice> JudStephenson: Here are the 5970s: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brocktice/5195604987/\
2205 2010-12-01 18:04:44 <JudStephenson> what do the 5970's do on their own?
2206 2010-12-01 18:04:47 <brocktice> oops ignore the \
2207 2010-12-01 18:04:52 <dwdollar1> xelister: All open orders are visible on the 'Orders' tab.
2208 2010-12-01 18:05:28 <ArtForz> I downclocked mine a bit, 640Mh/s each
2209 2010-12-01 18:05:35 <JudStephenson> I'm looking at buying a pair
2210 2010-12-01 18:05:41 <brocktice> 1443 mhash/s
2211 2010-12-01 18:06:06 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 1443000
2212 2010-12-01 18:06:07 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
2213 2010-12-01 18:06:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1443000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 6 hours, 40 minutes, and 44 seconds
2214 2010-12-01 18:06:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94934 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1833 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9684.10768883
2215 2010-12-01 18:06:15 <brocktice> oof
2216 2010-12-01 18:06:46 Denizzz__ has quit (Quit: ТаÑÑ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð°ÑÑ Ñ
войного дÑевоÑÑоÑ!..)
2217 2010-12-01 18:06:59 <nanotube> estimated diff almost 10k... i think theymos is going to lose his bet, on difficulty not making it over 10k by the end of the eyar.
2218 2010-12-01 18:07:01 <nanotube> year
2219 2010-12-01 18:07:11 <brocktice> probably
2220 2010-12-01 18:07:13 <brocktice> how much?
2221 2010-12-01 18:07:24 <nanotube> don't recall... not very large iirc.
2222 2010-12-01 18:08:19 <brocktice> I've had anough of this alsa/pulseaudio/skype crap
2223 2010-12-01 18:08:25 <brocktice> finally ordered a used Audigy 4
2224 2010-12-01 18:08:31 <brocktice> too bad my old SBLive! appears to be dead
2225 2010-12-01 18:08:33 <albatross> dwdollar1: I may have missed something that was said, but how is this particular order malicious? Guy spiked the price on the market and paid for it with cash. The market will decide if this price movement is valid or not.
2226 2010-12-01 18:08:42 <brocktice> albatross: did not pay
2227 2010-12-01 18:09:33 <nanotube> ask him when he comes back. :) if i were him, i could try to undermine block production with some nice tx spam. to affect the nodes that haven't upgraded to latest code. :)
2228 2010-12-01 18:10:50 <dwdollar1> albatross: He has never followed through on a trade before, ever. And now he wants to pay $1 per Bitcoin? I doubt it...
2229 2010-12-01 18:11:50 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2230 2010-12-01 18:11:53 <dwdollar1> But if he sends $10000 to everyone, I'll eat my words. I promise.:-D
2231 2010-12-01 18:12:08 <albatross> ah...ok. carry on then :)
2232 2010-12-01 18:21:02 acous has joined
2233 2010-12-01 18:26:18 FreeMoney has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2234 2010-12-01 18:28:44 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
2235 2010-12-01 18:33:24 <tcatm> bitcoincharts.com now has a complete orderbook for mtgox
2236 2010-12-01 18:34:50 <nanotube> tcatm: oooh how did you manage that?
2237 2010-12-01 18:35:03 <tcatm> I asked him :)
2238 2010-12-01 18:36:17 <nanotube> hehe cool. is the complete order book available at some url on mtgox now? or was that a private arrangement? :)
2239 2010-12-01 18:36:50 <tcatm> It's available through his realtime websocket.
2240 2010-12-01 18:37:28 <tcatm> Not really easy to parse. I'll add an JSON interface soon so one can get a snapshot of the orderbook.
2241 2010-12-01 18:37:56 <nanotube> tcatm: hm how easy would it be to add order entry/exit on mtgox over to #bitcoin-market?
2242 2010-12-01 18:38:07 <nanotube> how does a 'websocket' work?
2243 2010-12-01 18:39:36 <tcatm> Like HTTP but you get the raw TCP socket after the connection is established.
2244 2010-12-01 18:39:45 <tcatm> ws://mtgox.com:8080/connect
2245 2010-12-01 18:39:58 <tcatm> then send "subscribe" and wait for JSON objects
2246 2010-12-01 18:40:25 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
2247 2010-12-01 18:40:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94940 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1827 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9824.41855039
2248 2010-12-01 18:40:38 <tcatm> You'd need to cache the orderbook and diff it to get added/removed orders.
2249 2010-12-01 18:41:20 <tcatm> What language is gribble written in?
2250 2010-12-01 18:43:43 <JudStephenson> http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2251 2010-12-01 18:50:35 nathan7 has joined
2252 2010-12-01 18:52:15 nelisky has joined
2253 2010-12-01 19:01:36 gp5st has joined
2254 2010-12-01 19:03:31 <gp5st> hi! i think i'm still a little lost at what exactly a transaction is, why the client connects to an irc channel and why the target exists and how to figure out how to make a block's sha be less than it
2255 2010-12-01 19:05:19 donpdonp has joined
2256 2010-12-01 19:08:32 <OneFixt> gp5st: Making the hash less than the target can be done only by brute force, which is how the target controls difficulty and, therefore, average global bitcoin generation rate.
2257 2010-12-01 19:09:10 <OneFixt> Clients connect to an IRC channel in order to find other clients.
2258 2010-12-01 19:09:24 <OneFixt> And I'll let someone else explain what exactly a transaction is.
2259 2010-12-01 19:09:32 <nanotube> tcatm: python
2260 2010-12-01 19:09:34 <gp5st> so i'm basically creating random hashes and then with some probability i get bitcoins because i did that?
2261 2010-12-01 19:09:46 <donpdonp> gp5st: its worth reading the whitepaper http://www.bitcoin.org/sites/default/files/bitcoin.pdf
2262 2010-12-01 19:09:52 <OneFixt> Yes
2263 2010-12-01 19:10:43 <gp5st> ok
2264 2010-12-01 19:10:50 <gp5st> i was just reading the wiki at the moment
2265 2010-12-01 19:11:10 <JudStephenson> I have another question: If I have two computers generating hashes, what is to stop them from generating the same hashes? Since there is no "progress" on a block, two computers generating a total 22,000 kh/sec isn't the same as one computer generating the same, correct?
2266 2010-12-01 19:12:05 <OneFixt> JudStephenson: As long as you don't copy your wallet/addresses from one computer to the other, you should be ok.
2267 2010-12-01 19:13:01 <OneFixt> Each computer will add a different address of its own before hashing.
2268 2010-12-01 19:13:30 <JudStephenson> ah, so they aren't generating hashes in the same space?
2269 2010-12-01 19:13:31 <JudStephenson> \
2270 2010-12-01 19:13:36 <[Noodles]> depends on how you connect them to a client, you can remotly connect multiple "miners" to a single client to make them all "share the same work", if you use multiple clients/wallets though, theyll all have their own work todo
2271 2010-12-01 19:14:17 <JudStephenson> Would you be more likely to generate blocks using multiple remote miners or multiple clients / wallets?
2272 2010-12-01 19:14:39 <OneFixt> Equally likely.
2273 2010-12-01 19:14:40 <gp5st> so basically i'm trading electricity for bitcoins?
2274 2010-12-01 19:14:40 <JudStephenson> or are they equally as likely
2275 2010-12-01 19:14:52 <OneFixt> gp5st: pretty much
2276 2010-12-01 19:14:54 <JudStephenson> thanks OneFixt
2277 2010-12-01 19:15:45 <gp5st> i'm sure this has been thought of: working with folding or seti or w/e @home and having something come out of the expenditure of cycles?
2278 2010-12-01 19:15:59 <gavinandresen> JudStephenson: equally likely.
2279 2010-12-01 19:16:03 <[Noodles]> we've got something coming out
2280 2010-12-01 19:16:12 <[Noodles]> a secure network
2281 2010-12-01 19:17:08 <gavinandresen> gp5st: the problem being solved has to be hard to solve but easy to verify, and also has to be easy to make easier/harder as fewer/more clients join.
2282 2010-12-01 19:18:32 <gp5st> gavinandresen: have multiple clients working on it and cross verify (sort of like recaptcha) and then just require more to be solved as times goes on
2283 2010-12-01 19:18:49 <gp5st> so instead of 10 seti data files, in a year i'll have to analyze 20
2284 2010-12-01 19:19:15 <gavinandresen> gp5st: yeah, but that kind of cross-verification is subject to "sybil" attacks (where one client pretends to be lots of clients)...
2285 2010-12-01 19:20:10 <gavinandresen> gp5st: it might also be easy to keep nodes busy doing nothing but verifying bogus work. The really nice thing about checking a hash is it is extremely fast.
2286 2010-12-01 19:20:52 <JudStephenson> another question, is difficulty controlled manually or by a 21million coins by 2030 type algo?
2287 2010-12-01 19:20:52 <gp5st> i didn't mean checking work, i mean doing the work and voting and if you're right you get credit for it
2288 2010-12-01 19:21:00 <UukGoblin> uhm
2289 2010-12-01 19:21:03 <gp5st> sorry, i'm just working thought this in my head, your system, i mean
2290 2010-12-01 19:21:16 <UukGoblin> maybe this guy wanted to phish some paypal addresses?
2291 2010-12-01 19:22:51 <gavinandresen> gp5st no worries, if you DO figure out something more useful than computing hashes that isn't possible to cheat (and allows even low-powered clients to occasionally "win" in proportion to their computing power) let me know!
2292 2010-12-01 19:23:15 <UukGoblin> JudStephenson, there's too many 'by's in your statement
2293 2010-12-01 19:23:46 <gavinandresen> JudStephenson: difficulty is adjusted automatically every 2016 blocks.
2294 2010-12-01 19:24:14 <UukGoblin> it's definitely not controlled manually by anyone - difficulty is determined based on network's performance
2295 2010-12-01 19:24:48 <gp5st> gavinandresen: i'll think about my idea a bit more and come back. giving client's data with known solutions might keep them honest. i'l work though it and read what you guys wrote in the white paper
2296 2010-12-01 19:25:09 <gp5st> i like the idea, i just hate wasting that much processing power
2297 2010-12-01 19:25:40 <JudStephenson> I don't get you 'by's comment UukGoblin , but I assumed it was automatic since any other solution would kill the "no central authority"
2298 2010-12-01 19:25:51 <gavinandresen> Think of it as a Rube Goldberg space heater.......
2299 2010-12-01 19:26:21 <JudStephenson> s/you/your
2300 2010-12-01 19:26:51 <gp5st> gavinandresen: :-p
2301 2010-12-01 19:28:39 <UukGoblin> JudStephenson, in your sentence "is difficulty controlled manually or by a 21million coins by 2030 type algo", you've used "by" twice... maybe lacked an "or" there or something
2302 2010-12-01 19:29:28 <OneFixt> read it as "or by a 21millin-coins-by-2030 type algo"
2303 2010-12-01 19:29:43 <JudStephenson> OneFixt is correct
2304 2010-12-01 19:29:59 <JudStephenson> I should have added quotes or hyphens for better readibility
2305 2010-12-01 19:30:44 <UukGoblin> ah
2306 2010-12-01 19:30:56 <gp5st> it'll take me almost a year straight to make 50btc
2307 2010-12-01 19:30:58 <gp5st> :(
2308 2010-12-01 19:31:24 <[Noodles]> gp5st: you say, SETI processing power isn't "wasted"?
2309 2010-12-01 19:31:37 <gp5st> then do folding at home:)
2310 2010-12-01 19:31:46 <gp5st> it was just an example
2311 2010-12-01 19:31:52 <UukGoblin> 21 millions will actually be made around 2140
2312 2010-12-01 19:31:54 <[Noodles]> nah, thankies, i'm mining coins ^.^
2313 2010-12-01 19:32:04 <gp5st> ?
2314 2010-12-01 19:32:09 <gp5st> nah to me?
2315 2010-12-01 19:32:18 <[Noodles]> nah to folding
2316 2010-12-01 19:32:53 <gp5st> i just think it's a waste, i'll have to think about it and write up something sensible to send to gavinandresen and the rest of the group
2317 2010-12-01 19:33:09 <UukGoblin> as bitcoin is getting more and more popular, boinc will probably lose on fame :-]
2318 2010-12-01 19:33:17 <[Noodles]> just waste for me too, mining coins is not only good for me, but also for the bitcoin network, no need for me to change anything (so far)
2319 2010-12-01 19:33:30 <UukGoblin> gp5st, you're not the first to think that
2320 2010-12-01 19:33:45 <JudStephenson> UukGoblin: I was going off of the graph here: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=bitcoins&media=total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png
2321 2010-12-01 19:33:50 <gp5st> what is mining coins?
2322 2010-12-01 19:34:07 <[Noodles]> what do you get from seti or folding, or whatever else? i never got anything
2323 2010-12-01 19:34:40 <gp5st> what do you mean what do you get?
2324 2010-12-01 19:34:50 <gp5st> you're just donating cycles, just like you are for bitcoin
2325 2010-12-01 19:35:01 <UukGoblin> arbitrary computation should be possible with a web of trust scheme
2326 2010-12-01 19:35:02 <[Noodles]> mining coins = generating bitcoin-blocks and get some bitcoins as a reward
2327 2010-12-01 19:35:20 <gp5st> oh
2328 2010-12-01 19:35:26 <gp5st> except they mean something to someone and help them do work
2329 2010-12-01 19:35:34 <[Noodles]> do they?
2330 2010-12-01 19:35:39 <gp5st> yes?
2331 2010-12-01 19:35:41 <[Noodles]> thats the question
2332 2010-12-01 19:36:27 <gp5st> so you think pande is just doing it for the lolz?
2333 2010-12-01 19:36:36 <donpdonp> the bitcoin reward is a very interesting property of the system. it creates a positive feedback loop for keeping the system alive.
2334 2010-12-01 19:36:55 <donpdonp> gp5st: oh id totally donate cycles for the lolz. (to icanhascheezburger maybe :)
2335 2010-12-01 19:37:28 <gp5st> but if we could make it so that that wasn't the only output of it
2336 2010-12-01 19:37:38 <UukGoblin> well
2337 2010-12-01 19:37:45 <UukGoblin> mining bitcoins helps us NOT do work :-]
2338 2010-12-01 19:37:48 <gp5st> if some science was the output of it and we got a reward for the cycles
2339 2010-12-01 19:37:54 bertodsera has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2340 2010-12-01 19:37:55 <gp5st> science or anything
2341 2010-12-01 19:37:57 Lyspooner has joined
2342 2010-12-01 19:38:22 <donpdonp> gp5st: perhaps boinc should pay out bitcoins for work :)
2343 2010-12-01 19:38:26 <[Noodles]> security, freedom, if that's nothing to you
2344 2010-12-01 19:38:54 <[Noodles]> pay people bitcoins for running boinc
2345 2010-12-01 19:39:32 <gp5st> that would be what i was thinking off
2346 2010-12-01 19:39:41 <donpdonp> in using the system, two things make me second guess bitcoin as going mainstream. 1) downloading the entire system history in blocks at first startup. 2) takes about 20 minutes currently to get a transaction confirmed
2347 2010-12-01 19:39:55 <[Noodles]> create a custom boinc and offer it
2348 2010-12-01 19:39:58 <Lyspooner> hi all--regarding doublec's pooled mining thread, what keeps his server honest?
2349 2010-12-01 19:40:30 bertodsera has joined
2350 2010-12-01 19:40:33 <gp5st> that's not what i mean though
2351 2010-12-01 19:40:41 <[Noodles]> i know
2352 2010-12-01 19:40:59 <gp5st> instead of sha's it's the science that would create the bitcoin, i guess i could start my own network based on the idea
2353 2010-12-01 19:41:09 <gp5st> based on what you guys have done for the rest of everythign
2354 2010-12-01 19:41:37 <gp5st> also, Gnutella doesn't require any centralized place to find other nodes, right?
2355 2010-12-01 19:41:41 imnichol has joined
2356 2010-12-01 19:41:56 <[Noodles]> you dont need to connect to irc
2357 2010-12-01 19:42:02 <UukGoblin> problem is, the researchers DON'T have money to pay people for the computation
2358 2010-12-01 19:42:08 <[Noodles]> just use the -noirc switch
2359 2010-12-01 19:42:16 <gp5st> UukGoblin: you get bitcoins for doing the work
2360 2010-12-01 19:42:26 <gp5st> UukGoblin: just like you get bitcoins for creating shas
2361 2010-12-01 19:42:42 <UukGoblin> SETI@home sort of computation has little market value and it just wouldn't be done if you had to pay people for it
2362 2010-12-01 19:42:48 <gp5st> UukGoblin: you'd cross-validate answers
2363 2010-12-01 19:43:08 <gp5st> UukGoblin: you're not paying people though, not paying in the normal sense
2364 2010-12-01 19:43:29 <gp5st> [Noodles]: but can i connect to other clients? send/recieive/generate bitcoins w/o connecting to irc
2365 2010-12-01 19:43:38 <[Noodles]> yes
2366 2010-12-01 19:43:57 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,stats
2367 2010-12-01 19:44:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94950 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1817 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9893.10083822
2368 2010-12-01 19:44:01 <UukGoblin> gp5st, that calculation would have to be easily verifiable, and I think BOINC stuff lacks that property
2369 2010-12-01 19:44:33 <gp5st> that's why you cross-validate
2370 2010-12-01 19:44:46 <gp5st> multiple nodes working on the same data
2371 2010-12-01 19:44:48 <gavinandresen> gp5st: re: gnutella bootstrapping: see http://gtk-gnutella.sourceforge.net/en/?page=bootstrap
2372 2010-12-01 19:45:04 <gp5st> and give nodes data that the answer is known to and see if they get it right
2373 2010-12-01 19:45:29 <UukGoblin> gp5st, you have -addnode at the very least
2374 2010-12-01 19:45:30 <gp5st> thanks gavinandresen, i was on the wiki page reading too:)
2375 2010-12-01 19:46:41 <UukGoblin> gp5st, that'd be prone to that sibling attack gavin mentioned
2376 2010-12-01 19:47:10 <gp5st> i'm talking about replicating the problem hundreds, maybe thousands of times
2377 2010-12-01 19:47:18 <gp5st> not just 2 or 3
2378 2010-12-01 19:47:22 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
2379 2010-12-01 19:47:31 bertodsera has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2380 2010-12-01 19:47:31 <UukGoblin> also, person coming up with the calculation would have an unfair advantage, how would you solve that?
2381 2010-12-01 19:48:44 <UukGoblin> gp5st, whoever would control distribution of the data to compute would control the network
2382 2010-12-01 19:48:46 <gp5st> UukGoblin: why would it be an unfair advantage? i mean, they could have already solved it, yes, but then they had to expend the computer power to anyway
2383 2010-12-01 19:49:31 bertodsera has joined
2384 2010-12-01 19:49:49 <gp5st> jobs and data could be distributed by anyone
2385 2010-12-01 19:49:59 <gp5st> it wouldn't have to be a single host
2386 2010-12-01 19:50:10 <gp5st> i could submit jobs and you could too
2387 2010-12-01 19:50:14 <UukGoblin> gp5st, imagine a company is willing to pay me $10k for doing some computation for them. I then just give the stuff to the network to calculate and get the $10k for free - that's unfair
2388 2010-12-01 19:50:16 <gp5st> who chooses the difficulty level now?
2389 2010-12-01 19:50:36 <UukGoblin> gp5st, then some people would request arbitrarily large amounts of data to be computed
2390 2010-12-01 19:50:56 <UukGoblin> and effectively block off anyone trying to do some useful computation
2391 2010-12-01 19:51:17 <UukGoblin> gp5st, an algorithm
2392 2010-12-01 19:51:26 <gp5st> that's why i originally suggested a well-definded problem like folding at home
2393 2010-12-01 19:51:49 <UukGoblin> folding at home is well defined but it all comes down to the sort of data you feed it
2394 2010-12-01 19:52:10 <UukGoblin> you can just give it random useless shit
2395 2010-12-01 19:52:20 <UukGoblin> (I think)
2396 2010-12-01 19:52:22 <gp5st> yes, but folding at home won't have the issues you talked about
2397 2010-12-01 19:52:34 <gp5st> why can i give it random data?
2398 2010-12-01 19:52:45 <gp5st> that's where the cross-validation comes in
2399 2010-12-01 19:52:49 <UukGoblin> ok, how does folding@home work?
2400 2010-12-01 19:53:02 <UukGoblin> what does it get as input and what is it giving as output?
2401 2010-12-01 19:53:05 <gp5st> it gives you a structure, and you do mm simulations on it essentially
2402 2010-12-01 19:53:24 <gp5st> molecular structures and some metadata if i recall is the in/out
2403 2010-12-01 19:53:35 <UukGoblin> so there has to be someone to choose the structures
2404 2010-12-01 19:53:46 <gp5st> a group at standford
2405 2010-12-01 19:53:49 <gp5st> it's their baby
2406 2010-12-01 19:54:04 <donpdonp> one benefit of the block-that-hashes-to-a-value-with-leading-zeros is that the only prerequesite for the work is the bitcoin transaction data itself. folding at home would be a chokepoint for feeding miners.
2407 2010-12-01 19:54:15 <gp5st> (i've never been to, worked at, or studied at standford or with the guys group)
2408 2010-12-01 19:54:17 <albatross> maybe it's usefult to think of bitcoin mining in terms of transaction processing. visa/mastercard/etc. have farms of servers that process the transactions coming in. This is no different
2409 2010-12-01 19:55:01 <gp5st> but my computer is expending energy, it doesn't if i make a visa purchase
2410 2010-12-01 19:55:07 <UukGoblin> albatross, it's massively different
2411 2010-12-01 19:55:08 <donpdonp> albatross: agreed, but it does feel like a huge waste - generating zillions of blocks at random until one makes a hash of the correct format.
2412 2010-12-01 19:55:15 <gp5st> donpdonp: we could always hash the output from the simulation
2413 2010-12-01 19:55:34 <UukGoblin> albatross, visa & mastercard do it in a way that makes me want to kill them, bitcoin does it in such a cute way that I love it ;-)
2414 2010-12-01 19:55:48 <albatross> lol...
2415 2010-12-01 19:56:05 <albatross> gp5st: YOUR computer doesn't expend energy...visa server does
2416 2010-12-01 19:56:15 Hogofwar has joined
2417 2010-12-01 19:56:21 <Hogofwar> Hello
2418 2010-12-01 19:56:22 <gp5st> yes, i know
2419 2010-12-01 19:56:46 <tcatm> nanotube: Are you working on integrating the mtgox orderbook into gribble?
2420 2010-12-01 19:57:11 <gp5st> i would just feel better about turning money into bitcoins if i felt like it was a worthwhile exercise
2421 2010-12-01 19:57:36 <albatross> for the common person, mining will never be worthwhile...
2422 2010-12-01 19:57:48 <Hogofwar> May i suggest being compatible with links in the browser?
2423 2010-12-01 19:57:49 <gp5st> it'll take me a year to make 50btc
2424 2010-12-01 19:58:01 <Hogofwar> like steam does it: steam://
2425 2010-12-01 19:58:26 <Hogofwar> Could be bitcoin://<address> and it would open up bitocin asking for what amount.
2426 2010-12-01 19:58:45 nelisky has joined
2427 2010-12-01 19:58:51 <albatross> gp5st: if you want to spend money and become a 'transaction processor' (aka btc miner), then you are welcome to. However, there is a cost to entry (you can't become a Visa overnight)
2428 2010-12-01 19:59:24 <gp5st> so is that what i'm doing when i have my client open? verifying other people's transactions?
2429 2010-12-01 19:59:44 <[Noodles]> only if your generating
2430 2010-12-01 19:59:52 <Hogofwar> oooooh
2431 2010-12-01 20:00:31 <gp5st> [Noodles]: it's checked in my menu:)
2432 2010-12-01 20:00:59 <[Noodles]> but you don't have to generate to use bitcoin, you don't "generate" PayPalUSD, do you? ^.^
2433 2010-12-01 20:02:09 <gp5st> i see
2434 2010-12-01 20:02:22 <albatross> i think bitcoin needs to modify it's PR. new users get too caught up in the generating aspect of it, instead of thinking about it as a new currency that is convenient for online transactions
2435 2010-12-01 20:02:23 <gp5st> so it's not a vain action, but processing other transactions?
2436 2010-12-01 20:02:50 <gp5st> albatross: i think that's because it's awkward to gain btcs
2437 2010-12-01 20:02:53 <Hogofwar> For the good of the whole currency
2438 2010-12-01 20:03:16 <gp5st> like, i'm not tempted to wait a year to gain my 50btc
2439 2010-12-01 20:03:17 <albatross> gp5st: you're right
2440 2010-12-01 20:03:45 <gp5st> i think i saw this in the forums: if i could gain 5btc a month or so, that'd be more appealing
2441 2010-12-01 20:04:04 <Hogofwar> how do you measure how long you will take to earn 50?
2442 2010-12-01 20:04:10 <albatross> well, you can always buy BTC....but i do agree, there is a barrier to using them
2443 2010-12-01 20:04:27 <Hogofwar> Also, yeha it should be gradual payments not just full right at the end
2444 2010-12-01 20:04:52 <[Noodles]> join the pooled mining
2445 2010-12-01 20:05:02 <gp5st> Hogofwar: there is a calculator that gives expected times (http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php)
2446 2010-12-01 20:05:08 <[Noodles]> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2027.0
2447 2010-12-01 20:05:12 <albatross> Hogofwar: there is a calculator of probability. however, if you like a constant rate then join poled mining
2448 2010-12-01 20:05:27 <Hogofwar> how do i do that then?
2449 2010-12-01 20:06:06 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2450 2010-12-01 20:06:11 <gp5st> i see
2451 2010-12-01 20:06:14 <gp5st> that's interesting
2452 2010-12-01 20:06:20 <Hogofwar> mine is gonna take a year too
2453 2010-12-01 20:06:42 andrew12 has joined
2454 2010-12-01 20:06:56 RazielZ has quit ()
2455 2010-12-01 20:07:14 <gp5st> Hogofwar: yes, but you get coins faster if i understand it right
2456 2010-12-01 20:07:39 <gp5st> so you'd get no more btc a year than you would otherwise, but you get them throught thte year, just not at the end
2457 2010-12-01 20:07:40 <[Noodles]> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/ or the forum link above, there's 31clients online right now, total of 28Mhash/s
2458 2010-12-01 20:07:43 <Hogofwar> I find this currency interesting but the implementation needs to be improved a ton
2459 2010-12-01 20:07:56 <Hogofwar> downloading miner nwo
2460 2010-12-01 20:07:59 <Hogofwar> *now
2461 2010-12-01 20:08:35 <gp5st> [Noodles]: i like the idea
2462 2010-12-01 20:08:43 <gp5st> i'm going to read the whitepaper tonight
2463 2010-12-01 20:09:00 <[Noodles]> hopefully there's a gpu-version too soon, that'll speed it up a little ^.^
2464 2010-12-01 20:09:07 <gp5st> ^_^
2465 2010-12-01 20:09:57 <gp5st> so i saw the trade page, so there are places that actually accept the currency?
2466 2010-12-01 20:10:08 <Lyspooner> I accept it
2467 2010-12-01 20:10:19 <ne0futur> me too
2468 2010-12-01 20:10:20 <gp5st> :)
2469 2010-12-01 20:10:21 <[Noodles]> i do
2470 2010-12-01 20:10:32 <gp5st> i wonder if we could start a credit union and issue debit cards
2471 2010-12-01 20:10:39 <gp5st> :-p
2472 2010-12-01 20:12:38 <ne0futur> -> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1687.0
2473 2010-12-01 20:12:56 <UukGoblin> [Noodles], what's that bitcoin-pool you linked?
2474 2010-12-01 20:13:27 <[Noodles]> just a bunch of cpu-miners working together
2475 2010-12-01 20:13:45 kabo69 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2476 2010-12-01 20:14:10 * UukGoblin has no browser atm
2477 2010-12-01 20:14:14 <Hogofwar> We really shouldn't be trying this hard to relate bitcoins to real world currency
2478 2010-12-01 20:14:38 <[Noodles]> if we create a block, everyone gets a share of those 50btc
2479 2010-12-01 20:15:04 <ne0futur> its important to be able to convert btc to $ and $ to btc
2480 2010-12-01 20:15:10 <ne0futur> we eat in real world
2481 2010-12-01 20:15:13 kabo69 has joined
2482 2010-12-01 20:15:16 <gp5st> :: nods ::
2483 2010-12-01 20:15:20 <Hogofwar> :P
2484 2010-12-01 20:15:25 <donpdonp> in the early days of a currency, sure
2485 2010-12-01 20:15:36 <Lyspooner> you can eat nanimogold's coffee beans for bitcoins
2486 2010-12-01 20:15:54 <ne0futur> i wish it was more easy to enter mtgox and trade btc
2487 2010-12-01 20:15:54 <Lyspooner> and grondilu's golden chocolate bars
2488 2010-12-01 20:16:09 <donpdonp> when my landlord and the neighborhood pub take bitcoin, look out world! :)
2489 2010-12-01 20:16:22 <ne0futur> to me mining is irrelevant, btc is an investment
2490 2010-12-01 20:16:34 <Lyspooner> i am considering renting out an apartment in Miami for bitcoins
2491 2010-12-01 20:16:37 <ne0futur> and I recommend anyone to buy btc under 0.22 ( good time to enter the market now )
2492 2010-12-01 20:16:46 <gavinandresen> I still haven't figured out if bitcoins will and up being used like dollars, or used like gold. Maybe a little of both...
2493 2010-12-01 20:17:24 <gavinandresen> ^and^end^
2494 2010-12-01 20:17:35 <UukGoblin> [Noodles], ah, right
2495 2010-12-01 20:17:38 <UukGoblin> smart
2496 2010-12-01 20:17:49 <JudStephenson> gavinandresen: do you mean as in a day to day medium to pay for goods (like dollars) as opposed to an investment (gold)?
2497 2010-12-01 20:18:07 <gavinandresen> JudStephenson: exactly. "means of exchange" versus "store of value"
2498 2010-12-01 20:18:33 <JudStephenson> gavinandresen: imo, bitcoin has the best of both worlds
2499 2010-12-01 20:19:02 <Hogofwar> Anyway to convert GBp to bitcoins using paypal?
2500 2010-12-01 20:19:20 <JudStephenson> limited amounts = rising real value, completely electronic = great way to pay for things
2501 2010-12-01 20:19:36 <nelisky> ne0futur: drop by #bitcoin-otc, tell us how you can pay and we might get you into mtgox easy :)
2502 2010-12-01 20:20:42 <donpdonp> anyone know the origin of the name "Mt. Gox"? seems unrelated to anything :)
2503 2010-12-01 20:20:46 <Hogofwar> yeha
2504 2010-12-01 20:20:48 <Hogofwar> yeah
2505 2010-12-01 20:20:54 <Hogofwar> i would like to knwo too
2506 2010-12-01 20:21:19 <Hogofwar> ne0futur would your CDn be able to server up file 2gb+
2507 2010-12-01 20:21:27 <Hogofwar> *files
2508 2010-12-01 20:21:31 <ne0futur> nelisky: i am on #bitcoin-otc and already bought mtg$ ;)
2509 2010-12-01 20:21:34 <Lyspooner> mtgox = Magic The Gathering Online Exchange, a failed venture
2510 2010-12-01 20:21:45 <Lyspooner> kept the domain
2511 2010-12-01 20:21:48 <xelister> [Noodles]: this is some new, C++ GPU miner?
2512 2010-12-01 20:22:03 <nelisky> ne0futur: fantastic!
2513 2010-12-01 20:22:07 <ne0futur> Hogofwar: i m mostly using appengine for the free cdn
2514 2010-12-01 20:22:08 <gp5st> so, basically, you get money by verifying other people have money?
2515 2010-12-01 20:22:20 <Hogofwar> oh
2516 2010-12-01 20:22:21 <xelister> [Noodles]: also, apart from the miner base itself, question about the remote/poll part. How you know that people in pool do not cheat
2517 2010-12-01 20:22:39 <xelister> like, generate all the work, /except/ for hidding the "winning" block
2518 2010-12-01 20:22:51 <Hogofwar> what would my miner client say if i gain bitcoins?
2519 2010-12-01 20:23:02 <Hogofwar> or it completes a block?
2520 2010-12-01 20:23:32 <xelister> Hogofwar: "Block 1 found on Cypress at 10:26:37 AM"
2521 2010-12-01 20:23:39 <xelister> or similar, depending on miner
2522 2010-12-01 20:23:40 <Hogofwar> that all?
2523 2010-12-01 20:23:53 <[Noodles]> xelister: no, so far it's CPU only and for the cheating part, all miners just search for hashes, those hashes will only "work" on the server, not on any other client
2524 2010-12-01 20:24:05 <xelister> well, if you want a ka-chinnggg! sound plyed, then extend the miner :) Hogofwar
2525 2010-12-01 20:24:29 <xelister> [Noodles]: haha brilliant - how we do know that the server is legitimate?
2526 2010-12-01 20:24:31 <gp5st> [Noodles]: why is that? couldn't the miners figure out what the difficulty level is too?
2527 2010-12-01 20:24:45 <gp5st> and what xelister said:-p
2528 2010-12-01 20:24:46 <xelister> gp5st: hashes are calculated in separate spaces
2529 2010-12-01 20:24:56 <[Noodles]> it's not only the difficulty level, its the clients keys too
2530 2010-12-01 20:25:05 <gp5st> i see
2531 2010-12-01 20:25:19 <[Noodles]> in this case, the only client that can use those hashes is our server
2532 2010-12-01 20:25:30 <gp5st> yeah
2533 2010-12-01 20:25:33 <xelister> well I would join it
2534 2010-12-01 20:25:37 <xelister> if you would sleep with me
2535 2010-12-01 20:25:46 <gp5st> xelister: are you a girl?
2536 2010-12-01 20:25:50 <xelister> although perhaps not, some people are not trustworthy even despite such relation
2537 2010-12-01 20:26:05 <[Noodles]> let me think about that ^.^
2538 2010-12-01 20:26:09 <xelister> gp5st: yes, sure, Im a girl on irc, seeking someone to sleep with me, that totally makes sense. I also sell BTCs for 0.01 USD
2539 2010-12-01 20:26:10 <gp5st> and i guess i just need to trust the server to pay me?
2540 2010-12-01 20:26:35 <gp5st> xelister: i was just lost and was trying to put it all together
2541 2010-12-01 20:26:36 <[Noodles]> but i dont care if you join or not anyway, i got some GPUs running and generating fine, i dont need the CPU stuff anymore
2542 2010-12-01 20:27:13 <[Noodles]> but i still joined CPUs to help others and will add GPUs as soon as there's a client available
2543 2010-12-01 20:27:33 <xelister> yeah
2544 2010-12-01 20:27:41 <xelister> well, I just thought that you figured out a way
2545 2010-12-01 20:27:50 <xelister> to solve this problem in a long-term fasion (fully secure etc)
2546 2010-12-01 20:27:57 <xelister> No
2547 2010-12-01 20:28:00 <xelister> [Noodles]:
2548 2010-12-01 20:28:43 <xelister> btw, why dont we simply generate blocks x10 faster and pay 5 BTC for each? the extra bandwidth is cheap
2549 2010-12-01 20:29:04 <xelister> I guess the problem is it increases collisions nad lag penalty? but how much?
2550 2010-12-01 20:29:17 <tcatm> It's not worth it...
2551 2010-12-01 20:29:20 <andrew12> too many blocks maybe?
2552 2010-12-01 20:29:28 <xelister> tcatm: small blocks? TOTALLY worth it imho
2553 2010-12-01 20:29:41 <tcatm> If you generate blocks faster you'd have to wait for 60 blocks until an TX is confirmed.
2554 2010-12-01 20:29:41 <xelister> people join BTC /also/ because they are lured with "generate money"
2555 2010-12-01 20:29:48 <xelister> and "wait 2 months" part sucks
2556 2010-12-01 20:29:53 <andrew12> yeah
2557 2010-12-01 20:30:09 <andrew12> you've gotta get money the way you normally would
2558 2010-12-01 20:30:12 <andrew12> because it *is* money
2559 2010-12-01 20:30:16 <xelister> better get 1 USD next week, then possibly get 30 USD (or not) after 2 months (when you loose interest)
2560 2010-12-01 20:30:16 <lfm> boo hoo, free money isnt easy. tuff
2561 2010-12-01 20:30:28 <xelister> lfm: well, we want BTC to be popular
2562 2010-12-01 20:30:33 <lfm> do we?
2563 2010-12-01 20:30:34 <xelister> what things are popular? Addictive things
2564 2010-12-01 20:30:44 <Lyspooner> i'm lured to gold because i hear i can mine it in caves and rivers and stuff
2565 2010-12-01 20:30:53 <Lyspooner> for free
2566 2010-12-01 20:31:08 <xelister> lfm: yes we do, unless you want to print all your coins/wallets and put in a frame as otherwise useless piece of art
2567 2010-12-01 20:31:15 <xelister> for addictive things we need fast gratification
2568 2010-12-01 20:31:16 <donpdonp> Lyspooner: lolz!
2569 2010-12-01 20:31:30 <lfm> xelister, seems to be doing just fine as it is imho
2570 2010-12-01 20:31:51 <xelister> could be better imo
2571 2010-12-01 20:32:00 <xelister> there is room for improvment :)
2572 2010-12-01 20:32:05 <andrew12> the funny thing is that with a lot of p2p things, you won't get it until you use it and read all the documentation
2573 2010-12-01 20:32:12 <lfm> and there is room to foul it up too
2574 2010-12-01 20:32:17 <[Noodles]> xelister: we're working on "solutions" in form of pooled mining, join to help ^.~
2575 2010-12-01 20:32:17 <xelister> think of getting it as main currency in Idiotsvile on fagbook
2576 2010-12-01 20:32:19 <xelister> erm
2577 2010-12-01 20:32:23 <xelister> *farmville *facebook
2578 2010-12-01 20:32:24 <xelister> anyway
2579 2010-12-01 20:32:28 <andrew12> haha
2580 2010-12-01 20:33:10 <lfm> xelister, farmvill doesnt pay you, you pay it
2581 2010-12-01 20:33:52 <xelister> hmm or some game where people can trade virtuall stuff
2582 2010-12-01 20:34:03 <andrew12> well
2583 2010-12-01 20:34:07 <Lyspooner> gavinandresen is doing with the bitcoin faucet something we should all be doing
2584 2010-12-01 20:34:08 <andrew12> if you DO get bitcoins
2585 2010-12-01 20:34:24 <xelister> like diablo / WoW characters/items
2586 2010-12-01 20:34:36 <Lyspooner> give free bitcoins to your family for christmas
2587 2010-12-01 20:34:37 <lfm> xelister, start another faucet if you want to give away btc
2588 2010-12-01 20:34:42 <andrew12> you can turn bitcoins into real money which you can use on some game
2589 2010-12-01 20:34:50 <xelister> lfm: hmm I wanted to give away btc?
2590 2010-12-01 20:35:11 <xelister> I could make pics2btc
2591 2010-12-01 20:35:14 <lfm> xelister, if you want free btc use the faucet
2592 2010-12-01 20:35:42 <gp5st> well i should go do work
2593 2010-12-01 20:35:43 <xelister> who have 18 sisters lol
2594 2010-12-01 20:35:43 <gp5st> take care
2595 2010-12-01 20:35:48 <gp5st> see you tomorrow
2596 2010-12-01 20:35:52 <Lyspooner> Where's hippich? betco.in doesn't load tables no more
2597 2010-12-01 20:35:54 <andrew12> I'd make a faucet where it gave each visitor 10 BTC or 1% of what's in the faucet
2598 2010-12-01 20:36:02 <lfm> gp5st, bye
2599 2010-12-01 20:36:05 <andrew12> if that makes sense
2600 2010-12-01 20:36:09 <xelister> lfm: well there should be something in between. Do a smaller bit of work - get some BTC
2601 2010-12-01 20:36:26 <lfm> only in your immagination
2602 2010-12-01 20:36:35 <gp5st> but you get a btc when solving a block? os you can't break that down anymore
2603 2010-12-01 20:36:59 <andrew12> i think it should be more like folding@home where everybody has their own work to do, that way everyone gets bitcoins :p
2604 2010-12-01 20:37:15 <[Noodles]> here's some smaller bit of work: goto SecondLife, create stuff to sell, earn L$, i'll convert them to bitcoin
2605 2010-12-01 20:37:18 <andrew12> just throwing around ideas
2606 2010-12-01 20:37:29 <lfm> gp5st, it would be possible to make the reward smaller and more frequent. I dont think there is a real point to it and it could cause other problems, (too many blocks)
2607 2010-12-01 20:37:41 <gp5st> andrew12: i was thinking about that, but you get into verifiability issues
2608 2010-12-01 20:37:55 <andrew12> you're probably right
2609 2010-12-01 20:37:57 <gp5st> though i do think that it's a good thing to work towards if we can solve certain problems
2610 2010-12-01 20:38:08 <xelister> [Noodles]: indeed, that is an option
2611 2010-12-01 20:38:15 <xelister> but would be good to have directly BTC
2612 2010-12-01 20:38:22 <[Noodles]> there's lots of options, just pick one
2613 2010-12-01 20:38:25 <lfm> seems like the present lottery style works for lotteries
2614 2010-12-01 20:38:27 <xelister> and to have marketplace to spend them on something actually usefull
2615 2010-12-01 20:38:30 <gp5st> lfm: the point to it would be a faster return so someone like me doesn't have to wait a year for my first return
2616 2010-12-01 20:38:46 <andrew12> it'd be cool if there was a site that people could use to help them learn math or something in return for bitcoins (if they're good at it)
2617 2010-12-01 20:38:52 <xelister> gp5st: actually you will wait infinatelly
2618 2010-12-01 20:39:01 <andrew12> like for each question you get right you get .25 btc
2619 2010-12-01 20:39:09 <xelister> gp5st: during the year, difficulty will rise probably x100 so you will have to wait 100 years
2620 2010-12-01 20:39:15 <lfm> gp5st, the point is if we gave you something in a month instead of a year youd then whine for more
2621 2010-12-01 20:39:16 <andrew12> imagine bitcoin trivia: each question you get right, you get 1 btc
2622 2010-12-01 20:39:18 <andrew12> lol
2623 2010-12-01 20:39:20 <xelister> durin which diff also rises (to maximum) :P
2624 2010-12-01 20:39:50 <MacRohard> oh hey. hadn't sen this before; http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1126/1224284180416.html
2625 2010-12-01 20:39:55 <gp5st> lfm: i don't understand. i'm just saying that it's tough to get people to wait a year (or more) for payment
2626 2010-12-01 20:40:32 <lfm> heres an idea. sell something or do something to earn BTC instead of looking for free ones
2627 2010-12-01 20:40:42 <andrew12> :D
2628 2010-12-01 20:40:47 <[Noodles]> buy a GPU
2629 2010-12-01 20:40:58 <lfm> gp5st, yes and its tuff to get people to wait 5 minutes for a reward too
2630 2010-12-01 20:41:01 <MacRohard> or just buy bitcoins
2631 2010-12-01 20:41:10 <andrew12> %^^
2632 2010-12-01 20:41:12 <andrew12> ^^*
2633 2010-12-01 20:41:45 <gp5st> lfm: what was the other thing you said about never being able to generate bitcoins?
2634 2010-12-01 20:42:12 <lfm> ? did I?
2635 2010-12-01 20:42:36 <lfm> I dont think I said never. it is demonstrably untrue
2636 2010-12-01 20:42:55 <gp5st> gp5st: actually you will wait infinatelly
2637 2010-12-01 20:42:55 <gp5st> 3:38
2638 2010-12-01 20:42:56 <gp5st> 3:38
2639 2010-12-01 20:42:56 <gp5st> xelister
2640 2010-12-01 20:42:57 <gp5st> 3:38
2641 2010-12-01 20:42:57 <gp5st> gp5st: during the year, difficulty will rise probably x100 so you will have to wait 100 years
2642 2010-12-01 20:43:10 <gp5st> sorry, wrong person
2643 2010-12-01 20:43:17 <gp5st> i need to learn to read -_-
2644 2010-12-01 20:43:19 <Lyspooner> qed
2645 2010-12-01 20:43:50 <lfm> someone gets 50 btc every 9 or 10 minutes now. seems like lots to me
2646 2010-12-01 20:44:25 <gp5st> i see
2647 2010-12-01 20:44:37 <[Noodles]> there is no guaranteed payment, you get a lottery-ticket, nothing more than that, maybe u'll be "payed" your first day
2648 2010-12-01 20:44:43 <gp5st> but from one person's pov, then it's about a half year between payments
2649 2010-12-01 20:45:00 <gp5st> i understand it's probablistic
2650 2010-12-01 20:45:20 <lfm> I never won the lottery either. is that fair?
2651 2010-12-01 20:46:05 <xelister> sue
2652 2010-12-01 20:46:05 imnichol has quit (Quit: too cool for school)
2653 2010-12-01 20:46:06 <[Noodles]> and if you absolutely need to generate and don't want to wait that long, just invest some real-money into a nice GPU or 2 and you'll get payed daily
2654 2010-12-01 20:46:21 <lfm> maybe
2655 2010-12-01 20:46:26 <gp5st> :-p
2656 2010-12-01 20:46:30 <[Noodles]> hehe
2657 2010-12-01 20:46:32 <MacRohard> lfm, 7200 coins per day or around $1600/day of new money.
2658 2010-12-01 20:46:42 imnichol has joined
2659 2010-12-01 20:46:54 <lfm> kinda depends on which gpu it is too
2660 2010-12-01 20:47:16 <gp5st> sorry, i guess i was seeing it more of something that was guaranteed to pay off at some point over time
2661 2010-12-01 20:47:21 <gp5st> but you're right it isn't
2662 2010-12-01 20:47:26 <gp5st> i unerstood that from the start
2663 2010-12-01 20:47:43 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,stats
2664 2010-12-01 20:47:43 <[Noodles]> it surely does, 5850 doesnt give me daily blocks anymore
2665 2010-12-01 20:47:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94959 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1808 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9997.62975101
2666 2010-12-01 20:47:54 <Lyspooner> 9997!!!
2667 2010-12-01 20:48:19 <lfm> whew almost 10k
2668 2010-12-01 20:48:32 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,calc 5850
2669 2010-12-01 20:48:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5850 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 9 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes, and 49 seconds
2670 2010-12-01 20:48:37 <MacRohard> what was that site where you can gamble on the future difficulty?
2671 2010-12-01 20:48:55 <ne0futur> Hogofwar: what kind of 2gb+ type of data ? bandwidth usage ?
2672 2010-12-01 20:49:02 <Lyspooner> MacRohard: bitcoinsportsbook.com, but you can't right now
2673 2010-12-01 20:49:18 <lfm> ne0futur, huh?
2674 2010-12-01 20:49:41 <ne0futur> lfm: Hogofwar asked about my CDN offers
2675 2010-12-01 20:49:53 <lfm> o
2676 2010-12-01 20:50:31 <Lyspooner> one can gamble on future difficulty right here if you want, or maybe in bitcoin-otc
2677 2010-12-01 20:51:25 <albatross> lyspooner: 13K by new year?
2678 2010-12-01 20:51:35 <lfm> seems like you gamble on future difficulty just by running bitcoin
2679 2010-12-01 20:52:11 <Lyspooner> albatross: you want odds?
2680 2010-12-01 20:52:24 <albatross> sure...what do you offer?
2681 2010-12-01 20:52:27 <nanotube> tcatm: i was thinking it would be nice to add the order flow, in addition to doing just the trades (as currently).
2682 2010-12-01 20:52:39 <Lyspooner> even money
2683 2010-12-01 20:54:19 <albatross> how much do you want to go for?
2684 2010-12-01 20:54:38 <Lyspooner> i'm not sure if you are saying above or below
2685 2010-12-01 20:54:45 <albatross> above
2686 2010-12-01 20:55:12 <Lyspooner> 10 bitcoins says below
2687 2010-12-01 20:55:57 <albatross> only 10? not much confidence there... :)
2688 2010-12-01 20:56:02 <Lyspooner> nope
2689 2010-12-01 20:56:19 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
2690 2010-12-01 20:56:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94962 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1805 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 2 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10040.44735365
2691 2010-12-01 20:56:25 <nanotube> woo, over 10k
2692 2010-12-01 20:56:29 <Lyspooner> w00t
2693 2010-12-01 20:56:40 <albatross> lol...well, there's 10K already :)
2694 2010-12-01 20:57:11 <Lyspooner> pooled mining is going to push it over 13k by dec 31
2695 2010-12-01 20:58:06 <lfm> do you think pooled mining really pushes it or does the pool just take over from single efforts
2696 2010-12-01 20:58:10 <albatross> you think a lot of people will turn their CPU back on to put in pool?
2697 2010-12-01 20:58:16 <Lyspooner> i did
2698 2010-12-01 20:58:29 <Lyspooner> it's a variance-reducer
2699 2010-12-01 20:58:47 <ArtForz> you people can make a more consistent loss :P
2700 2010-12-01 20:58:49 <nanotube> i will probably throw in 100khps into the pool shortly. :)
2701 2010-12-01 20:59:05 <nanotube> ArtForz: it's about supporting the network :P
2702 2010-12-01 20:59:36 imnichol has quit (Quit: too cool for school)
2703 2010-12-01 20:59:44 <Lyspooner> ArtForz: it's about giving you something to mwahahaha at
2704 2010-12-01 20:59:47 <ArtForz> if its about supporting the network, you might as well mine on your own and play the block lottery directly
2705 2010-12-01 20:59:49 <nanotube> (and about people with free electricity. :) )
2706 2010-12-01 21:00:17 <Lyspooner> ArtForz: that's wrong
2707 2010-12-01 21:00:23 <nanotube> this is "more fun", maybe. and human beings like more immediate rewards.
2708 2010-12-01 21:00:27 <lfm> and trusting the pool admins to not get corrupt
2709 2010-12-01 21:00:35 <nanotube> lfm: i trust doublec.
2710 2010-12-01 21:01:35 <lfm> Im with Art on this
2711 2010-12-01 21:01:40 <nanotube> lfm: but technically the pool can be designed to be verifiable. e.g., all the keys that were used for pool gen would be made publicly available
2712 2010-12-01 21:01:52 <nanotube> so pool would not be able to 'hide' generated blocks
2713 2010-12-01 21:02:51 <ArtForz> *shrug*
2714 2010-12-01 21:03:01 <Lyspooner> ArtForz: Would you rather have 50 bitcoins at some unspecified date in a period of 300 days, or would you rather have 1/6 of a bitcoin a day for 300 days
2715 2010-12-01 21:03:22 <Lyspooner> and don't get cute
2716 2010-12-01 21:03:56 <lfm> thing is the pool will have overheads so it is not exact equivalence
2717 2010-12-01 21:04:11 <Lyspooner> lfm: explain
2718 2010-12-01 21:04:18 <ArtForz> if it's about supporting the network, whats the difference?
2719 2010-12-01 21:04:42 <Lyspooner> supporting the network plus option A or plus option B
2720 2010-12-01 21:04:51 <ArtForz> and yep, it should reduce efficiency a tiny bit
2721 2010-12-01 21:05:20 <Lyspooner> ah, well that's a good point. by how much?
2722 2010-12-01 21:05:26 <gavinandresen> If you're generating to try to make money... then you need to buy GPUs. If you're generating to "support the network"... then you should just take your chance of getting lucky. Or run -testnet (more clients on the testnet would be good).
2723 2010-12-01 21:05:26 <ArtForz> less than 1%
2724 2010-12-01 21:05:50 <ArtForz> depends on verification scheme and network latency
2725 2010-12-01 21:06:29 <Hogofwar> when was the last time the pool got a block?
2726 2010-12-01 21:06:32 <Lyspooner> ok, my guess is one day you might have to make the decision to pool your gpus at a cost of .5% efficiency
2727 2010-12-01 21:07:06 <ArtForz> my gpus are already pretty much pooled
2728 2010-12-01 21:07:50 <ArtForz> 52 GPUs on 2 nodes
2729 2010-12-01 21:07:59 <gp5st> does your bitcoin address change every transaction, or did i click the new button by accident (damn X over a slow network)
2730 2010-12-01 21:08:00 <Lyspooner> nice
2731 2010-12-01 21:08:14 <[Noodles]> the pool just started and isnt that big, 33clients <30Mhash/s, it'll take some time to create a block
2732 2010-12-01 21:08:27 <lfm> gp5st, it changes when every it is used
2733 2010-12-01 21:08:35 <gp5st> oh ok
2734 2010-12-01 21:08:53 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,calc 30000
2735 2010-12-01 21:08:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 6 days, 9 hours, 15 minutes, and 19 seconds
2736 2010-12-01 21:08:59 <gp5st> so i can't just publish my address, it has to be gotten in real time?
2737 2010-12-01 21:08:59 <ne0futur> Hogofwar: more info on my CDN offers : http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1687.msg26007#new
2738 2010-12-01 21:09:03 <ne0futur> query me if needed
2739 2010-12-01 21:09:11 <nanotube> gp5st: yes you can publish an address.
2740 2010-12-01 21:09:23 <gp5st> but if it changes every time it's used...
2741 2010-12-01 21:09:27 <lfm> gp5st, no, all the old addresses are valid and still work
2742 2010-12-01 21:09:30 <ArtForz> hmmm... while we're at # of nodes... won't widespread pooled mining reduce the # of bitcoin nodes active 24/7?
2743 2010-12-01 21:09:41 <gp5st> oh, then why does it change?
2744 2010-12-01 21:09:50 <albatross> hey artforz...i saw you talking about PCI express risers the other day and you had a recommendation to some dude. i can't find it now. can you send again?
2745 2010-12-01 21:09:58 <nanotube> ArtForz: nothing to prevent people from running non-generating nodes, alongside a pooled miner.
2746 2010-12-01 21:10:21 <ArtForz> nanotube: true
2747 2010-12-01 21:10:31 <lfm> gp5st, just for privacy I think. it doesnt really have to change
2748 2010-12-01 21:10:51 <Lyspooner> nanotube: is a bitcoin client that isn't Generating Coins a non-generating node?
2749 2010-12-01 21:10:53 <ArtForz> albatross: digging for the link
2750 2010-12-01 21:11:14 <albatross> artforz: sorry...i haven't been able to find a way to search these logs
2751 2010-12-01 21:12:01 <ArtForz> that adapter: http://pc-adapter.net/products/450.html ?
2752 2010-12-01 21:12:18 <nanotube> Lyspooner: yes exactly.
2753 2010-12-01 21:12:29 <nanotube> Lyspooner: it's just sitting, and routing traffic, but not crunching sha256
2754 2010-12-01 21:12:43 <gp5st> lfm: oh
2755 2010-12-01 21:13:04 <lfm> Lyspooner, and not burning cpu/gpu power
2756 2010-12-01 21:14:03 <Lyspooner> sorry so dense, but what purpose do i have routing traffic
2757 2010-12-01 21:14:47 <Hogofwar> is there only 1 pool?
2758 2010-12-01 21:14:49 <albatross> ArtForz: thanks. that's what you're using right?
2759 2010-12-01 21:14:53 <ArtForz> yep
2760 2010-12-01 21:14:57 <ArtForz> http://www.dhgate.com/pci-e-express-x16-riser-card-1-slot-with/p-ff8080812c305fe5012c367decb86967.html
2761 2010-12-01 21:16:13 <[Noodles]> Hogofar: you can create anotherone, if you want to, wouldn't make much sense though
2762 2010-12-01 21:16:16 <nanotube> Lyspooner: same purpose as every other node - to keep the network healthy.
2763 2010-12-01 21:16:19 <ArtForz> I suspect they're hard to get in the US because they're a 1:1 clone of the Adex PE-FLEX16
2764 2010-12-01 21:17:52 <ArtForz> not "somewhat similar" clone, "exact same part with different silkscreened part#" clone
2765 2010-12-01 21:19:12 <albatross> i'm just trying to figure out what is junk and what is not. hard to tell on a niche part like this
2766 2010-12-01 21:19:44 <ArtForz> well, so far these are the only somewhat cheap ones I got that work decently
2767 2010-12-01 21:20:02 <gp5st> hmm, so my transaction can only be verified once someone verifies it/creates a block?
2768 2010-12-01 21:20:33 <gp5st> sorry, still wrapping my head around the system
2769 2010-12-01 21:20:43 <nanotube> gp5st: yes that's how txns get confirmed. by getting embedded in the block chain.
2770 2010-12-01 21:20:57 <ArtForz> they're a clone of the gen1 adex, so not PCIe 2.0 certified, but so far all of em worked fine at 2.0 speeds (and so did the adex ...)
2771 2010-12-01 21:21:07 bertodsera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2772 2010-12-01 21:21:29 bertodsera has joined
2773 2010-12-01 21:22:06 <ArtForz> stay away from the cheap ones with plugs on the cables connecting to headers on the PCIe male/female boards, those dont even work reliably at 1.0 speeds
2774 2010-12-01 21:22:31 <gp5st> nanotube: i see
2775 2010-12-01 21:22:33 <gp5st> my transaction says 5/unconfirmed what does the 5 mean?
2776 2010-12-01 21:23:54 <albatross> cool...thanks. do you have a tip jar? this stuff is gold
2777 2010-12-01 21:24:34 <ArtForz> 5/unconfirmed = 4 blocks in the block chain after the one that cointains your TX
2778 2010-12-01 21:25:40 <gp5st> i see
2779 2010-12-01 21:28:07 <xelister> ArtForz: do you plan to buy next newest radeons as they appear?
2780 2010-12-01 21:29:02 <ArtForz> at least 1
2781 2010-12-01 21:29:21 <ArtForz> depends really on pricing
2782 2010-12-01 21:29:31 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2783 2010-12-01 21:29:45 <ArtForz> but I suspect they will be worse than 5970s for mining
2784 2010-12-01 21:30:25 tg has joined
2785 2010-12-01 21:30:27 ne0futur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2786 2010-12-01 21:30:46 ne0futur has joined
2787 2010-12-01 21:30:46 ne0futur has quit (Changing host)
2788 2010-12-01 21:30:46 ne0futur has joined
2789 2010-12-01 21:30:59 <ArtForz> 69xx 4D shader arch crippled 32-bit adds, effectively making em ~27.5% slower per ALU
2790 2010-12-01 21:31:41 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2791 2010-12-01 21:31:42 grondilu has joined
2792 2010-12-01 21:31:50 <ArtForz> so they have a lot to make up with #ALUs*MHz per $ and per W ...
2793 2010-12-01 21:32:06 <grondilu> ne0futur: could you do a mailbot ?
2794 2010-12-01 21:33:43 <xelister> ArtForz: why is new addition slower?
2795 2010-12-01 21:35:06 <ArtForz> old 5D arch could do one 32-bit add per clock in each of the XYZW and T units
2796 2010-12-01 21:35:40 <ArtForz> new 4D arch can do one 32-bit add in XY and one in ZW
2797 2010-12-01 21:35:52 gp5st has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2798 2010-12-01 21:36:18 manveru has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2799 2010-12-01 21:36:54 <ArtForz> so add throughput was effectively halved
2800 2010-12-01 21:37:56 manveru has joined
2801 2010-12-01 21:38:28 <ArtForz> and sha256 does quite a few 32 bit adds
2802 2010-12-01 21:41:00 <ne0futur> grondilu: I m not very interested on spamming . . .
2803 2010-12-01 21:41:14 <ne0futur> the free limit is 2000 emails/day on the CDN
2804 2010-12-01 21:41:29 <ne0futur> if its not spam related, contact me for more info
2805 2010-12-01 21:41:35 <ne0futur> why would you need a cdn for a mailbot ?
2806 2010-12-01 21:42:56 <nelisky> mtgox: around?
2807 2010-12-01 21:43:47 <grondilu> ne0futur: no it would be for my bitcoin/gold market. I'd like to automate ordering via mail.
2808 2010-12-01 21:46:37 <ne0futur> not sure you need a cdn for this
2809 2010-12-01 21:46:50 <grondilu> hum... what's a cdn ?
2810 2010-12-01 21:46:55 <ne0futur> cdn is mostly useful for serving static files
2811 2010-12-01 21:47:31 <ne0futur> grondilu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_delivery_network
2812 2010-12-01 21:47:54 <ne0futur> useful for big websites with much traffic and to many images, js, css files
2813 2010-12-01 21:52:41 <grondilu> 30 blocks to go before the end of the auction for a 1g mini gold bar ! http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1887.0
2814 2010-12-01 21:54:28 <ne0futur> I added cdn offers and mail system offers on http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1687.msg26024
2815 2010-12-01 21:55:33 <grondilu> ok. First I need to think my specs better anyway.
2816 2010-12-01 21:55:37 <xelister> grondilu: who pays for xfer and how much? xfer to Poland
2817 2010-12-01 21:55:59 <grondilu> xelister: included in price
2818 2010-12-01 21:56:20 <grondilu> so don't worry about that
2819 2010-12-01 21:59:40 <xelister> hmm 200 is a big too high for me at the moment
2820 2010-12-01 21:59:48 <xelister> but, nice idea :) post pics of the stab :P\
2821 2010-12-01 22:00:20 <xelister> wait, what is this gold rating? carrats
2822 2010-12-01 22:00:37 <grondilu> pure gold. 99.99% or something
2823 2010-12-01 22:01:07 <xelister> Carat
2824 2010-12-01 22:01:12 <Hogofwar> How did you get it :P
2825 2010-12-01 22:01:24 <xelister> grondilu: pic url? didnt see in post
2826 2010-12-01 22:01:28 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2827 2010-12-01 22:01:31 <grondilu> I just bought it a few years ago
2828 2010-12-01 22:01:50 <grondilu> the pic is attached, but I think you have to login to see it
2829 2010-12-01 22:06:21 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
2830 2010-12-01 22:06:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94971 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1796 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 19 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10061.64040116
2831 2010-12-01 22:10:14 <grondilu> xelister: here is the pic http://grondilu.freeshell.org/photos/20101122_001.jpg
2832 2010-12-01 22:11:58 mtve has joined
2833 2010-12-01 22:12:03 <xelister> thanks
2834 2010-12-01 22:12:15 <xelister> I hope you will invest money into new photo camera though :P
2835 2010-12-01 22:13:05 <grondilu> It was with my n900 but my hands were shaking I guess.
2836 2010-12-01 22:16:24 <xelister> "The self proclaimed hacker that waged a DDoS attack on Wikileaks has been arrested and has had all his equipment seized. The Jester (th3j35t3r) who has a reputation for attacking websites he disagrees with is said to be trying to raise $10,000 in expected lawyers fees.
2837 2010-12-01 22:16:34 kayak420 has joined
2838 2010-12-01 22:16:55 <kayak420> hey there
2839 2010-12-01 22:17:10 <nanotube> howdy
2840 2010-12-01 22:17:37 <kayak420> So I just downloaded the client software
2841 2010-12-01 22:17:52 <kayak420> how many blocks should I expect to be downloaded
2842 2010-12-01 22:17:58 <nanotube> ;;bc,blocks
2843 2010-12-01 22:17:58 <gribble> 94975
2844 2010-12-01 22:17:59 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
2845 2010-12-01 22:18:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94975 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1792 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 20 hours, 55 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10183.28376327
2846 2010-12-01 22:18:05 <kayak420> Cool thanks
2847 2010-12-01 22:18:06 Hogofwar has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2848 2010-12-01 22:18:12 <nanotube> kayak420: --^ just under 95k :)
2849 2010-12-01 22:18:17 <kayak420> I'm at 79,000 now
2850 2010-12-01 22:19:13 <xelister> kayak420: if your next question is about generating, then: best just buy them. unless you have radeon like 5970 or 58xx or at least 57xx
2851 2010-12-01 22:19:27 <kayak420> I have an 8800gt
2852 2010-12-01 22:19:37 <kayak420> It's getting old
2853 2010-12-01 22:20:01 <kayak420> Sorry for another newbie question but how much is one bitcoin worth in USD?
2854 2010-12-01 22:20:10 <xelister> kayak420: yeah its rater useless to genrate
2855 2010-12-01 22:20:11 <nanotube> ;;bc,mtgox
2856 2010-12-01 22:20:11 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2299,"low":0.2082,"vol":8138,"buy":0.2171,"sell":0.2275,"last":0.2299}}
2857 2010-12-01 22:20:22 <nanotube> kayak420: --^ current bid/ask on the biggest market
2858 2010-12-01 22:20:26 <nanotube> that being mtgox.com
2859 2010-12-01 22:20:42 <kayak420> So about $0.22?
2860 2010-12-01 22:20:45 <nanotube> yep
2861 2010-12-01 22:20:51 <kayak420> Cool
2862 2010-12-01 22:21:31 <kayak420> Have any of you guys made any money generating?
2863 2010-12-01 22:21:59 <nanotube> some people have.
2864 2010-12-01 22:22:08 <nanotube> and still do, if they have a recent gpu
2865 2010-12-01 22:22:52 <kayak420> Does the client from bitcoind.org utilize your GPU or do you need another client for that?
2866 2010-12-01 22:22:56 fergalish has joined
2867 2010-12-01 22:24:47 <AAA_awright> What forum would I post an alternate protocol idea to?
2868 2010-12-01 22:24:59 <AAA_awright> Even if it might be impossible to implement?
2869 2010-12-01 22:25:16 <albatross> lol...technical discussion i guess
2870 2010-12-01 22:25:40 <AAA_awright> That's the... second biggest one, alright I guess
2871 2010-12-01 22:26:12 <AAA_awright> Also, anyone know any implementations of http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1884.0
2872 2010-12-01 22:27:27 <kayak420> Someone suggested mesh networks
2873 2010-12-01 22:27:46 <kayak420> I really only know about tcp/ip
2874 2010-12-01 22:28:14 <xelister> kayak420: you need anoteher client, called miner. but really you need a radeon 58xx or 57xx for it to make any sense
2875 2010-12-01 22:28:25 <kayak420> Ok, thanks
2876 2010-12-01 22:28:43 <xelister> kayak420: so, buying bitcoins is a good idea, there are rather low now (droped from 0.25-0.30 to 0.21) probably it will again rise to 0.3+ in time
2877 2010-12-01 22:29:51 <AAA_awright> A network that scales to billions or trillions of users
2878 2010-12-01 22:30:20 <mtgox> AAA_awright: look up DHT. specifically kademlia
2879 2010-12-01 22:30:36 kayak420 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2880 2010-12-01 22:31:08 <nanotube> xelister: what's the hash rate of a 8800gt?
2881 2010-12-01 22:31:30 <ArtForz> not much
2882 2010-12-01 22:31:58 <[Noodles]> 8600GT gets ~6000khs
2883 2010-12-01 22:31:58 <nanotube> heh well, i know it's not much. :)
2884 2010-12-01 22:32:07 grondilu has left ()
2885 2010-12-01 22:32:08 <[Noodles]> so 10M maybe?
2886 2010-12-01 22:32:10 <nanotube> wow, even more not much than i thought.
2887 2010-12-01 22:32:10 <ArtForz> ~25Mh/s
2888 2010-12-01 22:32:23 <nanotube> mm
2889 2010-12-01 22:32:40 <xelister> nanotube:
2890 2010-12-01 22:32:54 <nanotube> xelister:
2891 2010-12-01 22:32:55 <nanotube> :D
2892 2010-12-01 22:33:17 <Diablo-D3> http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html
2893 2010-12-01 22:33:19 <Diablo-D3> ^ I lol'd
2894 2010-12-01 22:34:29 <xelister> nanotube: 8600 is expected to have around 8-10 M
2895 2010-12-01 22:34:48 <xelister> and it's estimated generation speed per month is of value: WORTHLESS
2896 2010-12-01 22:35:09 <Diablo-D3> xelister: worse
2897 2010-12-01 22:35:11 <Diablo-D3> its negative
2898 2010-12-01 22:36:02 <ArtForz> well, even a 8600GT should be a bit more efficient than CPU mining
2899 2010-12-01 22:36:38 <CyanDynamo> i have an 8600m GT
2900 2010-12-01 22:36:54 <Diablo-D3> my dick is more efficient at mining than a 8600
2901 2010-12-01 22:36:59 <CyanDynamo> lmfao
2902 2010-12-01 22:37:11 <[Noodles]> proof?
2903 2010-12-01 22:37:16 <donpdonp> lol
2904 2010-12-01 22:37:30 <ArtForz> actually 10Mh/s sounds awfully high for a 8600GT
2905 2010-12-01 22:37:39 <Diablo-D3> bwhahahaha
2906 2010-12-01 22:37:46 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: yea, pics or it didn't happen. er actually... i don't want to see those. never mind.
2907 2010-12-01 22:37:55 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: just ask your mother
2908 2010-12-01 22:38:03 <[Noodles]> not 8600, 8800, my 8600GT gets around 6M and is already overclocked to its limits
2909 2010-12-01 22:38:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: oh guess what
2910 2010-12-01 22:38:19 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: i did, she said it was definitely too small to mine anything. :P
2911 2010-12-01 22:38:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: my miner doesnt work on osx and nvidia
2912 2010-12-01 22:38:30 <xelister> <Diablo-D3> my dick is more efficient at mining than a 8600
2913 2010-12-01 22:38:31 <xelister> lol
2914 2010-12-01 22:38:32 <ArtForz> yeah, stock 8600GT should be ~5.7Mh/s peak
2915 2010-12-01 22:38:45 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they, apparently, do not implement the opencl 1.0 spec
2916 2010-12-01 22:38:55 <ArtForz> wha?
2917 2010-12-01 22:39:25 <xelister> nanotube: was she using 10.10 driver
2918 2010-12-01 22:39:38 <xelister> no wait, that is nvidia. was she using the beta driver
2919 2010-12-01 22:40:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they dont support -Dfoo=bar
2920 2010-12-01 22:40:10 <Diablo-D3> which is hilarity
2921 2010-12-01 22:40:15 <ArtForz> that sounds... wrong
2922 2010-12-01 22:41:29 <ArtForz> do you happen to have special chars in your defines?
2923 2010-12-01 22:41:44 <Diablo-D3> none
2924 2010-12-01 22:42:16 <ArtForz> thats... weird
2925 2010-12-01 22:42:53 <ArtForz> afair the pyrit guys are using defines, and it works on osx
2926 2010-12-01 22:43:13 <Diablo-D3> it wiggs out when I use them
2927 2010-12-01 22:43:14 <Diablo-D3> so fuck them
2928 2010-12-01 22:44:42 <ArtForz> you're using "s in your defines
2929 2010-12-01 22:46:20 aceat64 has quit (Quit: brb)
2930 2010-12-01 22:46:40 <Diablo-D3> yes, which is the correct usage
2931 2010-12-01 22:47:08 <ArtForz> don't pull stunts like that unless you want to test for proper commandline escaping
2932 2010-12-01 22:47:50 <Diablo-D3> erm, I expect their compiler to work correctly
2933 2010-12-01 22:48:02 <ArtForz> and I expect a pony
2934 2010-12-01 22:48:04 <Diablo-D3> its a driver bug if it doesnt.
2935 2010-12-01 22:48:11 <Diablo-D3> I do not support driver bugs
2936 2010-12-01 22:48:18 albatross has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2937 2010-12-01 22:50:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how else do they expect me to do defines with spaces in them?
2938 2010-12-01 22:51:02 <ArtForz> probably they dont expect that at all
2939 2010-12-01 22:51:53 <ArtForz> common use case is a -Dfoo=1 and a block of #ifs in the .cl
2940 2010-12-01 22:52:31 <ArtForz> and it seems the QA process for openCL runtimes consists of "if it compiles, ship it"
2941 2010-12-01 22:53:13 <ArtForz> and yes, not accepting defines like that IS a bug
2942 2010-12-01 22:53:24 <Diablo-D3> well
2943 2010-12-01 22:53:35 <Diablo-D3> the spec clearly says "if its not in here, check the C spec"
2944 2010-12-01 22:53:59 <Diablo-D3> every C compiler that is considered functional supports that
2945 2010-12-01 22:54:07 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
2946 2010-12-01 22:54:09 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
2947 2010-12-01 22:54:17 darrob has joined
2948 2010-12-01 22:55:13 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure the compiler supports it just fine, they're somehow messing up the args in the runtime library on their way to the compiler commandline
2949 2010-12-01 22:55:25 <Diablo-D3> fags
2950 2010-12-01 22:56:14 <fergalish> quit
2951 2010-12-01 22:56:18 fergalish has quit ()
2952 2010-12-01 22:57:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but heres the big problem
2953 2010-12-01 22:57:40 <Diablo-D3> no one knows any nvidia users
2954 2010-12-01 23:00:11 <xelister> btw there appears to be now some C++ miner as well
2955 2010-12-01 23:00:24 <xelister> Diablo-D3: ha :) doesnt LobsterMan have nvidia
2956 2010-12-01 23:06:36 <LobsterMan> yes
2957 2010-12-01 23:06:41 bitplane has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2958 2010-12-01 23:07:06 * xelister makes fun of LobsterMan
2959 2010-12-01 23:09:03 <LobsterMan> meh when i built my computer it was for gaming
2960 2010-12-01 23:09:12 <LobsterMan> bonus points because i can also do bitcoin...
2961 2010-12-01 23:10:08 <xelister> when ArtForz first build his computer, it was viewing webpages and friendly chat over skype
2962 2010-12-01 23:10:21 <xelister> then thunderstorm come by, and something went, very, very wrong...
2963 2010-12-01 23:10:51 <LobsterMan> lol...........
2964 2010-12-01 23:13:03 <xelister> but his masterpeace had one fatall flaw, an exahust vent
2965 2010-12-01 23:13:36 <xelister> extending over 2 miles from the core
2966 2010-12-01 23:13:39 <xelister> in a galaxy far far away
2967 2010-12-01 23:21:18 * LobsterMan slaps xelister around with a heavy metal pole
2968 2010-12-01 23:29:16 grondilu has joined
2969 2010-12-01 23:30:17 <grondilu> join #1gGold-auction to buy a 1g mini gold bar before block 95,000. 16 blocks to go. Highest bid is 215 BTC
2970 2010-12-01 23:31:02 kruhft has joined
2971 2010-12-01 23:34:14 <xelister> hmmmm. any girls at all here?
2972 2010-12-01 23:34:27 <xelister> in Hungary (afair) we can legally do escorts for btc lol
2973 2010-12-01 23:34:40 <grondilu> really ?
2974 2010-12-01 23:34:49 <xelister> yeah prostitution is legall in many places
2975 2010-12-01 23:34:56 <xelister> why shouldnt it be?
2976 2010-12-01 23:35:10 <grondilu> I doubt they accept bitcoins though ;)
2977 2010-12-01 23:35:13 <xelister> I mean, someone could organize it for BTC, but nothing like that exists atm :)
2978 2010-12-01 23:35:14 <xelister> yea
2979 2010-12-01 23:35:38 <grondilu> The day prostitutes will accept BTC will be az huge symbol of success for bitcoin
2980 2010-12-01 23:36:50 kruhft has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
2981 2010-12-01 23:39:12 Kiba has joined
2982 2010-12-01 23:39:55 <jgarzik> bitcoin will hit big time, once we can use mobile phones to make purchases "out and about"
2983 2010-12-01 23:40:24 <grondilu> jgarzik: "out and about" ?
2984 2010-12-01 23:41:11 <donpdonp> jgarzik: the next goog phone will have near-field-communication for one-tap purchases with the phone
2985 2010-12-01 23:41:36 <jgarzik> grondilu: == not in front of your computer, but rather, out in the Real World, interacting with Real People :)
2986 2010-12-01 23:41:44 <xelister> jgarzik: btw
2987 2010-12-01 23:42:06 * xelister know someone that developed actuall pay-by-click system
2988 2010-12-01 23:42:10 <xelister> on iphone and other mobiles
2989 2010-12-01 23:42:16 <xelister> backend and frontend
2990 2010-12-01 23:42:38 <grondilu> on mobile phones one could use ecash with bitcoin accounts
2991 2010-12-01 23:42:40 <xelister> actually this barcodes, or better Q codes (or wifi etc) are good also for fast redeeming/transfers
2992 2010-12-01 23:44:26 <Kiba> jgarzik: we just need somebody to work on the android phone
2993 2010-12-01 23:44:50 * xelister knows iphone, android, j2mee devels
2994 2010-12-01 23:45:07 <jgarzik> I would pay serious money, to a serious developer
2995 2010-12-01 23:45:08 <xelister> but overall such devel is not too cheap... but then again, this guys are not in USA, so prices /3
2996 2010-12-01 23:45:12 <jgarzik> bounties aren't very useful, IMO
2997 2010-12-01 23:46:13 <grondilu> for mobile phones imo best is digital cash + bitcoin : http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=847.msg21579#msg21579
2998 2010-12-01 23:46:49 <jgarzik> you just need to snap a picture of a QR-code
2999 2010-12-01 23:47:08 <jgarzik> requirements: QR-code specification for bitcoin purchases + mobile phone app + merchant back-end
3000 2010-12-01 23:47:15 <jgarzik> don't need O.T.
3001 2010-12-01 23:48:20 <nelisky> the merchant apis already exist, right? mybitcoin and mtgox could both be used
3002 2010-12-01 23:48:58 <Kiba> hmm
3003 2010-12-01 23:49:11 <Kiba> I didn't figure out how to make mtgox works for me yet
3004 2010-12-01 23:49:11 <nelisky> and doing this from a central system would prevent the confirmation wait
3005 2010-12-01 23:49:14 <jgarzik> nelisky: in this case, I'm referring to a specialized API that generates QR-codes for customers, and processes their incoming TX's
3006 2010-12-01 23:49:21 <jgarzik> nelisky: a specialized payment processor
3007 2010-12-01 23:49:29 <nelisky> jgarzik: sire
3008 2010-12-01 23:49:32 <nelisky> *sure
3009 2010-12-01 23:49:40 <Kiba> anybody made mtgox to work for them?
3010 2010-12-01 23:49:47 <nelisky> I could "hack" that easily, had I the time
3011 2010-12-01 23:49:52 <nelisky> and the phone :)
3012 2010-12-01 23:50:17 <nelisky> I mean, it could even plug into existing systems such as the mentioned two
3013 2010-12-01 23:50:34 <Kiba> android bounty's current value is 382.8 USD
3014 2010-12-01 23:50:46 <nelisky> so if you have coins on mybitcoin, you could use them to pay the merchant, that might be at mtgox
3015 2010-12-01 23:51:08 <nelisky> kiba: but that's for near field weirdness and such, right?
3016 2010-12-01 23:51:11 <tcatm> What's the best android phone to get?
3017 2010-12-01 23:51:20 <jgarzik> the cheap one
3018 2010-12-01 23:51:21 <jgarzik> :)
3019 2010-12-01 23:51:23 <Kiba> nelisky: yes
3020 2010-12-01 23:51:26 <nelisky> heh
3021 2010-12-01 23:51:55 <nelisky> I'll be getting an android phone really soon, for another project
3022 2010-12-01 23:52:11 * jgarzik would pledge 10,000 BTC for what I just described
3023 2010-12-01 23:52:24 <nelisky> but the only thing needed is pluging in to the camera and decoding QR
3024 2010-12-01 23:52:31 <nelisky> everything else is a backend
3025 2010-12-01 23:52:40 <nelisky> and that I can hack up in 2~3 days
3026 2010-12-01 23:52:46 <nelisky> (which I don't currently have)
3027 2010-12-01 23:53:00 <nelisky> a nice holiday project, if no other takers
3028 2010-12-01 23:53:00 <tcatm> Should bitcoin run on the phone or connect to bitcoind?
3029 2010-12-01 23:53:14 <nelisky> tcatm: the phone should be as dumb as possible
3030 2010-12-01 23:53:23 <nelisky> opens the door to other implementations real easy
3031 2010-12-01 23:53:30 <xelister> jgarzik: you mean, an android version?
3032 2010-12-01 23:53:31 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3033 2010-12-01 23:53:32 <nelisky> interface with the camera and the net
3034 2010-12-01 23:53:38 <jgarzik> tcatm: bitcoin may run on phone... but that would imply development of lightweight client
3035 2010-12-01 23:53:55 <jgarzik> tcatm: easier is to connect to some off-phone "wallet" (mybitcoin, or directly to personal bitcoind)
3036 2010-12-01 23:54:07 <nelisky> tcatm: and, more to the point, make the whole transaction wait period issue come back
3037 2010-12-01 23:54:20 <nelisky> if we're talking easy micro payments
3038 2010-12-01 23:54:27 <nelisky> coffee, t-shirt, phone bill
3039 2010-12-01 23:54:29 <jgarzik> xelister: ability to pay via android app, by taking a picture of QR code + merchant back-end
3040 2010-12-01 23:54:45 <jgarzik> xelister: doesn't have to mean bitcoin client on android, though that would be nice
3041 2010-12-01 23:55:15 <nelisky> I'm getting interested :)
3042 2010-12-01 23:55:45 <nelisky> an escrow... uses your mybitcoin or mtgox account
3043 2010-12-01 23:56:31 <nelisky> phone reads payment details, value, address, comment
3044 2010-12-01 23:56:44 <nelisky> shows that to you, you agree, payment is done
3045 2010-12-01 23:56:47 <nelisky> hmmm
3046 2010-12-01 23:56:58 <xelister> nelisky: do you code anroid?
3047 2010-12-01 23:57:09 <nelisky> xelister: not yet :)
3048 2010-12-01 23:57:14 <xelister> ah
3049 2010-12-01 23:57:14 <nelisky> I code anything
3050 2010-12-01 23:57:17 <xelister> uhm
3051 2010-12-01 23:57:26 <xelister> ah, to be young and optimistic again :)
3052 2010-12-01 23:57:26 <nelisky> from embeded to windows
3053 2010-12-01 23:57:37 <nelisky> well, maybe not windows, voluntarily
3054 2010-12-01 23:57:47 mtgox has joined
3055 2010-12-01 23:57:52 <tcatm> I could help with a nice and polished web interface for hte backend.
3056 2010-12-01 23:57:54 <xelister> - well that is easy ... <3 months> .. oh shit help so many damn quircks and SHIT
3057 2010-12-01 23:58:03 * xelister gets his armchair
3058 2010-12-01 23:58:17 <nelisky> hehe, even trying to get IE to behave is a complete nightmare
3059 2010-12-01 23:58:25 <xelister> lets fuck IE users
3060 2010-12-01 23:58:29 <xelister> with a broomstick
3061 2010-12-01 23:58:36 <nelisky> tcatm: I'm game if you do the interfaces
3062 2010-12-01 23:58:44 <nelisky> but I'll need time
3063 2010-12-01 23:58:47 <xelister> no seriously, ie 6 users SHOULD be nowdays just ignored totally.
3064 2010-12-01 23:58:57 <jgarzik> 1) customer takes picture of QR-code. 2) phone displays "MyMerchant, Inc. requests payment of nnnn BTC. Do you agree? Yes / no" 3) customer clicks 'accept'. 4) phone contacts payment processor, transfers payment to merchant.
3065 2010-12-01 23:58:59 <nelisky> 6? what about 7?
3066 2010-12-01 23:59:15 <xelister> for 7 I would take care that all info is displayed and is not ugly
3067 2010-12-01 23:59:18 <nelisky> jgarzik: perfect
3068 2010-12-01 23:59:27 <Kiba> mtgox don't even work on 7
3069 2010-12-01 23:59:29 <nelisky> on the processor side:
3070 2010-12-01 23:59:38 <jgarzik> oh
3071 2010-12-01 23:59:46 <jgarzik> 0) merchant generates payment request
3072 2010-12-01 23:59:51 <jgarzik> (including QR-code image)
3073 2010-12-01 23:59:51 <tcatm> Could work like this: Phone takes QR code, detects it's a bitcoin payment then passes decoded QR code to webbackend and everything else happens in browser.