1 2010-12-05 00:16:00 jrabbit has joined
2 2010-12-05 00:22:28 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3 2010-12-05 00:23:07 nelisky has joined
4 2010-12-05 00:23:52 nelisky has quit (Client Quit)
5 2010-12-05 00:40:47 jrabbit has joined
6 2010-12-05 00:42:56 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
7 2010-12-05 00:43:25 mtgox has joined
8 2010-12-05 00:44:35 nelisky has joined
9 2010-12-05 00:50:15 genjix has joined
10 2010-12-05 00:50:29 <genjix> so fucking frustrating, people in #freenode bitching about paypal
11 2010-12-05 00:50:39 <ColonelPanic1> paypal is evil
12 2010-12-05 00:50:46 <genjix> but refuse to acknowledge bitcoin when i give them the links/info :p
13 2010-12-05 00:50:55 <ColonelPanic1> bitches froze my account because I tried to buy a motherboard on ebay
14 2010-12-05 00:51:04 <ColonelPanic1> then I couldn't pay for the motherboard and my ebay account got fucked up
15 2010-12-05 00:51:08 <ColonelPanic1> and everything I did was legitimate
16 2010-12-05 00:51:16 <ColonelPanic1> I couldn't appeal any of it for over a year
17 2010-12-05 00:51:28 <genjix> i never bought anything with them but ive heard so much bad shit that im boycotting them
18 2010-12-05 00:51:36 <ColonelPanic1> me too, man
19 2010-12-05 00:51:39 <genjix> they're criminal.
20 2010-12-05 00:51:53 <ColonelPanic1> they freeze thousands of dollars of assets and never give them back
21 2010-12-05 00:52:00 <ColonelPanic1> regardless of criminal activity or anything illegitimate
22 2010-12-05 00:52:08 <ColonelPanic1> just on a whim
23 2010-12-05 00:52:22 <theymos> Bitcoin used to bootstrap on #bitcoin in this network... until Freenode k-lined all of the clients and broke Bitcoin.
24 2010-12-05 00:52:25 <ColonelPanic1> the whim of some program, created by a money-hungry asshole
25 2010-12-05 00:52:27 <genjix> they did it for a donation fund setup for an openbsd hackathon
26 2010-12-05 00:53:01 <genjix> theymos: why did they k-line them? because of the traffic?
27 2010-12-05 00:53:40 <theymos> It shouldn't use that much traffic. I guess they just didn't like the idea of being used as a bootstrap source.
28 2010-12-05 00:54:00 <ColonelPanic1> it's also not good for bitcoin's purposes
29 2010-12-05 00:54:04 <ColonelPanic1> it creates a single point of failure
30 2010-12-05 00:54:31 <genjix> wasnt it just to get block announcements?
31 2010-12-05 00:54:37 <genjix> -block
32 2010-12-05 00:54:43 <theymos> Bitcoin still bootstraps via IRC -- just on a different network.
33 2010-12-05 00:54:59 <theymos> genjix: No. You find peers primarily through IRC.
34 2010-12-05 00:55:02 AAA_awright_ has joined
35 2010-12-05 00:55:10 <Kiba> so why are we still boostrapping via IRC?
36 2010-12-05 00:55:28 <ArtForz> no, you find peers primarily through the p2p addr messages
37 2010-12-05 00:55:36 <theymos> IRC works better than the addr bootstrapping method.
38 2010-12-05 00:55:46 <AAA_awright_> We're _still_ bootstrapping via IRC?!?
39 2010-12-05 00:55:57 <theymos> Addr has more of a delay for last-seen times.
40 2010-12-05 00:56:02 <ColonelPanic1> dude, go in #bitcoin
41 2010-12-05 00:56:06 <ArtForz> IRC and fallback to hardcoded list of nodes, yep
42 2010-12-05 00:57:20 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
43 2010-12-05 00:57:50 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
44 2010-12-05 00:57:59 <AAA_awright> theymos: How do they know the difference between clients?
45 2010-12-05 00:58:24 <theymos> On IRC? The nicks are encoded IP addresses.
46 2010-12-05 00:58:28 <AAA_awright> And who chose choose Freenode without reading the TOS?
47 2010-12-05 00:59:01 <theymos> Satoshi, I suppose. He didn't register the channel, either.
48 2010-12-05 01:00:46 <ArtForz> we really only need IRC for initial bootstrapping, any other way of getting a somewhat current list of (addr, last seen) would work as well
49 2010-12-05 01:03:24 <bencoder> we're not on freenode anymore though are we? freenode is used by the really old clients, which I don't think will be generating valid blocks anymore if they're still generating
50 2010-12-05 01:03:31 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
51 2010-12-05 01:03:34 <theymos> Right.
52 2010-12-05 01:03:34 <ArtForz> yep
53 2010-12-05 01:04:48 dKingston has joined
54 2010-12-05 01:05:26 FB100Z has joined
55 2010-12-05 01:05:29 dKingston has left ()
56 2010-12-05 01:05:30 lolcat has joined
57 2010-12-05 01:05:35 <lolcat> Can my computer make bitcoins?
58 2010-12-05 01:05:38 <Kiba> can't believe they're still on
59 2010-12-05 01:05:50 <Kiba> lolcat: only if you wait long enough
60 2010-12-05 01:05:55 <Kiba> you can forgetitaboutit
61 2010-12-05 01:06:33 <bencoder> or join the pooled miner
62 2010-12-05 01:06:49 <lolcat> How much is a coin worth?
63 2010-12-05 01:06:59 <Kiba> it's determined by supply and demand.
64 2010-12-05 01:07:06 <Kiba> it used to be worth around 0.06
65 2010-12-05 01:07:09 <genjix> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
66 2010-12-05 01:07:12 FB100Z has left ()
67 2010-12-05 01:07:26 <[Noodles]> used to be? ^.^
68 2010-12-05 01:07:46 <Kiba> seem like we dropped to 0.20 now
69 2010-12-05 01:08:03 <Kiba> the ask orders will be extremely difficult to overcome
70 2010-12-05 01:08:15 AAA_awright_ has joined
71 2010-12-05 01:08:29 <lolcat> So I can buy bitcoins and sell at a higher price?
72 2010-12-05 01:08:45 <[Noodles]> you sure can, if someone buys 'em
73 2010-12-05 01:08:58 AAA_awright has quit (Disconnected by services)
74 2010-12-05 01:09:05 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
75 2010-12-05 01:09:26 <genjix> there's a buy/sell exchange on #bitcoin-otc (read topic) and mtgox.com
76 2010-12-05 01:09:42 <lolcat> How long untill my bitcoin is made?
77 2010-12-05 01:09:58 <[Noodles]> depends on your CPU/GPU processing power
78 2010-12-05 01:10:06 <genjix> forget it. i've never made one.
79 2010-12-05 01:10:12 <genjix> i earned all of mine.
80 2010-12-05 01:10:12 <[Noodles]> from 1day to a year or 2
81 2010-12-05 01:11:04 <lolcat> 1day on a laptop?
82 2010-12-05 01:11:04 <theymos> You could generate maybe 0.25 per week if you join the pooled mining group.
83 2010-12-05 01:11:07 <[Noodles]> if you've got a decent gaming machine, give it a try, else just buy some
84 2010-12-05 01:11:21 <genjix> its just a way of gradually introducing the currency to market
85 2010-12-05 01:11:24 <[Noodles]> or join the pool for a few coins a wekk/month
86 2010-12-05 01:11:31 <[Noodles]> *week
87 2010-12-05 01:11:37 <genjix> or try this: http://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
88 2010-12-05 01:13:08 <lolcat> So then I'd earn 5 cent a day?
89 2010-12-05 01:14:03 <lolcat> And I tried it, but there is no bitcoin here :(
90 2010-12-05 01:14:18 <[Noodles]> by doing what? generating? you dont generate 1coin, it's 50coins, but you might not get them in a day, but within days, or weeks
91 2010-12-05 01:14:30 <Kiba> lolcat: don't expect to get easy money
92 2010-12-05 01:15:27 <lolcat> can I make my own pool?
93 2010-12-05 01:15:44 <[Noodles]> you could, but it wouldnt make much sense
94 2010-12-05 01:16:02 <lolcat> If I have shitloads of computers
95 2010-12-05 01:16:30 <[Noodles]> well, if its just a shitload of CPUs, it wont help ya that much
96 2010-12-05 01:17:05 <lolcat> But I am confused, this can be used for tax-evasion and money laundering. Rigth?
97 2010-12-05 01:17:10 <nanotube> lolcat: it's all about how many hashes per second you can try.
98 2010-12-05 01:17:25 <nanotube> you can use the average time calculator. e.g., if you have 500 khps:
99 2010-12-05 01:17:27 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 500
100 2010-12-05 01:17:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 500 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 years, 10 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 19 minutes, and 28 seconds
101 2010-12-05 01:17:48 <genjix> lolcat: fuck yeah thats why its so cool :)
102 2010-12-05 01:17:57 <[Noodles]> lol
103 2010-12-05 01:18:04 <lolcat> Does bitcoin support a powerpc cpu?
104 2010-12-05 01:18:16 <Kiba> I worked my butt for 25 cents this week!
105 2010-12-05 01:18:17 <Kiba> wee!
106 2010-12-05 01:18:18 <nanotube> lolcat: i suggest you read some about bitcoin on the ,,website and the ,,wiki
107 2010-12-05 01:18:18 <genjix> government cant do shit
108 2010-12-05 01:18:18 <lolcat> I heard the ps3 is good at hashing
109 2010-12-05 01:18:19 <gribble> Bitcoin website: http://bitcoin.org/
110 2010-12-05 01:18:20 <gribble> Bitcoin wiki: http://bitcoin.org/wiki/
111 2010-12-05 01:18:23 <Kiba> butt off*
112 2010-12-05 01:18:35 <genjix> http://bitcoinme.com
113 2010-12-05 01:19:18 <ArtForz> PS3 sucks for mining
114 2010-12-05 01:19:21 <lolcat> Just one confusing question, what happens if the program crashes? Do I loose my bitcoins?
115 2010-12-05 01:19:22 * Kiba earned close to 1 BTC from people downloading his artwork
116 2010-12-05 01:19:45 <nanotube> lolcat: no. but it's a good idea to keep a backup of your wallet.
117 2010-12-05 01:19:53 <Kiba> and encrypt it!
118 2010-12-05 01:20:06 <Kiba> but also remember your password
119 2010-12-05 01:20:51 <ArtForz> 7 128-bit SPEs @ 3.2GHz = about 21.6Mh/s peak
120 2010-12-05 01:21:17 <lolcat> How do I see my Mh/s?
121 2010-12-05 01:21:40 <Kiba> at da bottom of your client
122 2010-12-05 01:21:54 <lolcat> It just says a bunch of blocks and generating
123 2010-12-05 01:22:21 <Kiba> next go generating should be your hasrate, no?
124 2010-12-05 01:22:30 <Kiba> or was it left?
125 2010-12-05 01:23:05 <theymos> Far left of the client when generating is enabled.
126 2010-12-05 01:23:08 <ArtForz> hashrate should be on far left, remember generation is stopped while it's still downloading the block chain
127 2010-12-05 01:23:22 <ArtForz> ;;bc,blocks
128 2010-12-05 01:23:22 <gribble> 95611
129 2010-12-05 01:23:26 <lolcat> How big is the block chain?
130 2010-12-05 01:23:27 <lolcat> oh
131 2010-12-05 01:23:31 <lolcat> I am haf way there
132 2010-12-05 01:23:53 <lolcat> So if I am lucky I have 50 bitcoins tomorrow?
133 2010-12-05 01:23:58 <fedorared> Extremely
134 2010-12-05 01:24:09 <[Noodles]> super-uber-lucky
135 2010-12-05 01:24:27 <theymos> Pretty much no chance. You're lucky if your laptop will have 1000 khps.
136 2010-12-05 01:24:30 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 1000
137 2010-12-05 01:24:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 39 minutes, and 44 seconds
138 2010-12-05 01:24:45 <ArtForz> so a meager HD5770 real world is 7x as fast as a PS3 theoretical peak ...
139 2010-12-05 01:25:07 <lolcat> So a high end graphic card will do bether?
140 2010-12-05 01:25:20 <ArtForz> yup
141 2010-12-05 01:25:29 <lolcat> I am considering to buy a i7 950, with some nvidida card and 8gb ram
142 2010-12-05 01:25:32 <fedorared> With the various GPU clients floating around
143 2010-12-05 01:25:38 <lolcat> Will that improve my chances?
144 2010-12-05 01:26:04 <[Noodles]> forget about nvidia, get the biggest badass ATI card you can get instead
145 2010-12-05 01:26:34 <AAA_awright> Sudden change in topic: If I wanted to prove that P includes problems not in NP, would all it take is proving that there is at least one function that is in P that is also not in NP?
146 2010-12-05 01:26:45 <AAA_awright> well of course
147 2010-12-05 01:27:01 <genjix> thats simple logic :p
148 2010-12-05 01:27:31 genjix has left ()
149 2010-12-05 01:28:18 <AAA_awright> So how does SHA256 play in there?
150 2010-12-05 01:29:51 <AAA_awright> BItcoin is assuming (among other cryptography algroithms) that you can verify there is an n where SHA1(n)<=D, but no inverseSHA1(n) for some n<=D
151 2010-12-05 01:30:27 <AAA_awright> Switching to SHA1 just because it's two fewer characters to type
152 2010-12-05 01:30:55 <AAA_awright> Where both SHA1 and inverseSHA1 are functions that return in polynomial time
153 2010-12-05 01:32:46 <theymos> Information is removed, so it'll always be impossible to completely reconstruct data from just a hash.
154 2010-12-05 01:33:10 <AAA_awright> Right
155 2010-12-05 01:33:29 <AAA_awright> Isn't that enough to prove P!=NP or am I completely missing something here (I have to be)
156 2010-12-05 01:34:04 <theymos> That's not an NP problem.
157 2010-12-05 01:35:13 <theymos> As I understand it, an NP problem is solved easily by computers that always guess correctly. But SHA-256 can't be reversed even by such a computer.
158 2010-12-05 01:35:15 <AAA_awright> Finding the inverse is?
159 2010-12-05 01:37:36 <lolcat> I think I want to start trading bitcoins to become rich
160 2010-12-05 01:38:01 <Kiba> oh
161 2010-12-05 01:38:08 <Kiba> you think this is some sort of get-rich scheme
162 2010-12-05 01:38:24 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
163 2010-12-05 01:38:34 <ArtForz> tanstaafl
164 2010-12-05 01:38:47 <Kiba> no such thing as a free lunch, lolcat
165 2010-12-05 01:39:03 <theymos> Bitcoin's SHA-256 proof-of-work is an NP problem: an NP computer can guess which input data will get which output data.
166 2010-12-05 01:39:11 <lolcat> Kiba: No, but the prices fluctuates, so I can invest, wait and sell.
167 2010-12-05 01:39:22 <Kiba> perhaps.
168 2010-12-05 01:39:33 <lolcat> It should be just like shares
169 2010-12-05 01:39:33 <Kiba> it's gamlbing, simple.
170 2010-12-05 01:39:49 <Kiba> you want to gamble.
171 2010-12-05 01:39:51 <Kiba> that's fine.
172 2010-12-05 01:39:51 <lolcat> No, I can follow the graphs, and make out a trend
173 2010-12-05 01:40:00 <Kiba> it's still gambling
174 2010-12-05 01:40:09 <Kiba> don't be so concieted that you think you can beat the market
175 2010-12-05 01:40:23 <lolcat> Yes, probably not the safest investment I can make, but it can still be fun
176 2010-12-05 01:40:31 <ArtForz> of course it's gambling, like most high-risk investments
177 2010-12-05 01:40:35 <lolcat> I dont have to invest a lot either
178 2010-12-05 01:40:50 <lolcat> 10USD and I have some bitcoins to play with
179 2010-12-05 01:40:53 <Kiba> lolcat: as long as you only invest in what you can afford to lose, you'll be fine.
180 2010-12-05 01:40:54 <AAA_awright> theymos: And because there's of a loss of information have we proved it's not a P problem?
181 2010-12-05 01:41:16 <theymos> I don't know.
182 2010-12-05 01:41:23 * Kiba lost most of his profit with an unprofitable short selling loan
183 2010-12-05 01:41:23 <AAA_awright> And it does terminate within the correct domain so that's not an issue
184 2010-12-05 01:41:34 <lolcat> I know, if I start out SMALL, then I can enjoy the fluctuations
185 2010-12-05 01:42:56 <theymos> lolcat: BTC trading is nice because you know with reasonably high certainty that BTC will eventually go up in value. The market knows this, too, but they may be more pessimistic than you are.
186 2010-12-05 01:43:20 <lolcat> I see it has dropped 30% in the last 4 houres
187 2010-12-05 01:43:26 <lolcat> Wich is interessting...
188 2010-12-05 01:44:06 <theymos> I would buy now if I had any money in MtGox.
189 2010-12-05 01:44:36 <theymos> It seems to me that fundamentals point upwards.
190 2010-12-05 01:44:47 <theymos> (In the near-term as well as the long-term.)
191 2010-12-05 01:44:58 <Kiba> we now have trading in yens
192 2010-12-05 01:45:36 <Kiba> but only mtgox is liquid
193 2010-12-05 01:46:26 <lolcat> What is that liberty reserve thing?
194 2010-12-05 01:46:55 dabbish1 has joined
195 2010-12-05 01:47:00 <Kiba> some other commodity that is pegged to the dollar
196 2010-12-05 01:47:09 <theymos> It's a private currency, sort of like Bitcoin, but entirely centralized. You generally need to use a wire transfer to get money into it.
197 2010-12-05 01:47:32 <Kiba> theymos: and they have more google traffic than bitcoin...
198 2010-12-05 01:47:49 <dabbish1> ok, i just stumbled across this today. and all i can say is wow
199 2010-12-05 01:47:59 <dabbish1> this japanese guy, what a genius
200 2010-12-05 01:48:09 <lolcat> So I can't paypal to get bitcoins?
201 2010-12-05 01:48:18 <Kiba> you can
202 2010-12-05 01:48:25 <lolcat> Where?
203 2010-12-05 01:48:26 <theymos> lolcat: You can on #bitcoin-otc . I'll trade small amounts with you.
204 2010-12-05 01:48:28 <Kiba> but nobody like paypal
205 2010-12-05 01:48:45 <Kiba> I think, everybody hate paypal now
206 2010-12-05 01:49:12 <dabbish1> yeah i came here because the wikileaks thing and paypal
207 2010-12-05 01:49:29 joe_1 has joined
208 2010-12-05 01:49:43 <dabbish1> so most people here think that bitcoins can be a serious alternative to the future world currency?
209 2010-12-05 01:50:09 <fedorared> Many do.
210 2010-12-05 01:50:10 <Kiba> dabbish1: well, nobody knows who Satoshi is.
211 2010-12-05 01:50:12 <bencoder> s/think/hope
212 2010-12-05 01:50:17 <Kiba> except that he's genuis for inventing bitcoin
213 2010-12-05 01:50:18 <[Noodles]> it is already, it's just that most people don't know yet
214 2010-12-05 01:50:32 <dabbish1> Kiba: well nobody knew who Assange was a few years ago either
215 2010-12-05 01:50:50 <Kiba> dabbish1: but we really really really really don't know who Satoshi is
216 2010-12-05 01:50:51 <Kiba> no face
217 2010-12-05 01:50:53 <Kiba> no picture
218 2010-12-05 01:50:59 <dabbish1> oh
219 2010-12-05 01:51:02 <Kiba> almost nothing
220 2010-12-05 01:51:09 <joe_1> oh well
221 2010-12-05 01:51:12 <ArtForz> "let the idea speak for itself"
222 2010-12-05 01:51:13 <dabbish1> well he is still an active developer right?
223 2010-12-05 01:51:19 <bencoder> yep
224 2010-12-05 01:51:22 <lolcat> I love the idea of a privatized currency
225 2010-12-05 01:51:51 <dabbish1> democratic currency you mean?
226 2010-12-05 01:52:05 <bencoder> many of us here are libertarian/anarchist types, dabbish1, and believe government has no place in money, or anywhere else really ;)
227 2010-12-05 01:52:06 <theymos> dabbish1: It's doubtful that he's even from Japan. I think he created the identity just for Bitcoin.
228 2010-12-05 01:52:25 <dabbish1> bencoder: yeah, me an anarchist too :)
229 2010-12-05 01:52:31 <dabbish1> theymos: oh
230 2010-12-05 01:53:07 <Kiba> anarchists don't believe in democracy
231 2010-12-05 01:53:21 <dabbish1> Kiba: why you say that?
232 2010-12-05 01:53:29 <Kiba> we don't vote
233 2010-12-05 01:53:30 <Kiba> we trade
234 2010-12-05 01:53:42 <joe_1> democracy is pretty authoritarian
235 2010-12-05 01:53:49 <dabbish1> hmm
236 2010-12-05 01:53:57 <Kiba> we have no belief in the idea of majority rule
237 2010-12-05 01:53:58 <bencoder> democracy is just majority rule, squash the minority
238 2010-12-05 01:54:05 <dabbish1> representative democracy is not very democratic, but direct democracy is
239 2010-12-05 01:54:13 <Kiba> we hate democracy
240 2010-12-05 01:54:28 <dabbish1> and with the internet is finally possible to practically implement direct democracy
241 2010-12-05 01:54:28 <bencoder> I don't like the concept of it
242 2010-12-05 01:54:36 <Kiba> bitcoin don't care if you accept it or not accept it.
243 2010-12-05 01:54:41 <bencoder> I don't want to be ruled by whoever wins a vote
244 2010-12-05 01:54:50 <bencoder> or whatever rule wins a vote, even
245 2010-12-05 01:54:54 <dabbish1> so who do you guys prefer to be ruled by?
246 2010-12-05 01:54:58 <Kiba> nobody in this channel votes on bitcoin. We accept bitcoin, willfully.
247 2010-12-05 01:54:58 <bencoder> myself
248 2010-12-05 01:55:06 <Kiba> dabbish1: individual soverenity
249 2010-12-05 01:55:12 <bencoder> ^
250 2010-12-05 01:55:29 <bencoder> we're talking for ourselves here though dabbish1, others on this channel have other views, ofc
251 2010-12-05 01:55:57 <Kiba> the community don't vote, ever.
252 2010-12-05 01:55:58 <Kiba> we do.
253 2010-12-05 01:56:11 <Kiba> we talk and try to convince each other, but we don't vote on decisions.
254 2010-12-05 01:56:50 <joe_1> who runs mtgox.com? i forgot
255 2010-12-05 01:57:01 <ArtForz> mtgox
256 2010-12-05 01:57:06 <mtgox> me
257 2010-12-05 01:57:06 <bencoder> i dont mind the concept of voting, as long as the result of that vote is not forced on people who voted the other way.
258 2010-12-05 01:57:10 <dabbish1> yeah, no but what i meant by a democratic currency is that it's decentralized and not controlled by any authority
259 2010-12-05 01:57:15 <joe_1> do you know how you're doing margin trading yet?
260 2010-12-05 01:57:26 <jgarzik> direct democracy == mob rule. better hope you're not a minority.
261 2010-12-05 01:57:36 <AAA_awright> Democratic = bad
262 2010-12-05 01:57:55 <Kiba> two wolves and one chicken deciding what to eat for dinner.
263 2010-12-05 01:57:57 <AAA_awright> Arbitrary rule in general is bad
264 2010-12-05 01:58:01 <jgarzik> joe_1: did privacyshark ever get back to you?
265 2010-12-05 01:58:12 <joe_1> no those fuckers still havent changed the dns nor have i heard back from them
266 2010-12-05 01:58:28 <mtgox> joe_1: It should be in mid dec
267 2010-12-05 01:58:35 <jgarzik> joe_1: if you're on the forums, please do consider posting your experience...
268 2010-12-05 01:58:44 <jgarzik> joe_1: I would really appreciate it
269 2010-12-05 01:59:03 <dabbish1> well it's better that the majority rules over the minority. but hey, i am up for suggestions. what do you think is betteR?
270 2010-12-05 01:59:08 <joe_1> jg: yeah i will. unfortunately, they'll come back and blame me for doing something wrong and immediately resolve the situation. just like they did every other time someone complained publicly
271 2010-12-05 01:59:30 <bencoder> dabbish1: why does someone / some people need to rule?
272 2010-12-05 01:59:55 <Kiba> dabbish1: let kill the jews.
273 2010-12-05 01:59:59 <joe_1> mtg: ok, i'm interested in how you're going to do it. do you know yet?
274 2010-12-05 02:00:01 <Kiba> we decide to kill the jews.
275 2010-12-05 02:00:01 <dabbish1> bencoder: there needs to be some kind of organization right?
276 2010-12-05 02:00:19 <Kiba> dabbish1: there is an organization called the bitcoin community and there is no democracy in the bitcoin community.
277 2010-12-05 02:00:58 <Kiba> everybody is free to do whatever they want, for the most part.
278 2010-12-05 02:01:03 <jgarzik> there are always rulers. it is the nature of man. we are pack animals. there are alpha dogs and sheep. if you don't select a ruler, some obnoxious asshole with weapons just declares himself ruler :)
279 2010-12-05 02:01:07 <bencoder> dabbish1: depends what you're talking about, in a certain sense, yes, as long as people are free to leave the community that exists as a result of that organisation if they're not happy with the decisions made
280 2010-12-05 02:01:15 <dabbish1> Kiba: what i meant before when i said it was a democratic currency was that it's not controlled by any central bank. it's decentralized, for the people by the people. that's why it's democratic
281 2010-12-05 02:01:22 <dabbish1> not in the sense that you can vote on anything
282 2010-12-05 02:01:31 <Kiba> dabbish1: democracy is about voting
283 2010-12-05 02:01:38 <Kiba> markets are not democracies
284 2010-12-05 02:01:38 <jgarzik> You can vote with your feet
285 2010-12-05 02:01:40 <Kiba> markets are markets
286 2010-12-05 02:01:45 <jgarzik> and wallet
287 2010-12-05 02:01:56 <AAA_awright> In a manner of speaking
288 2010-12-05 02:02:20 <dabbish1> Kiba: no democracy is greek for people's power
289 2010-12-05 02:02:23 <Kiba> we are a market community.
290 2010-12-05 02:02:39 <Kiba> there is no people's power.
291 2010-12-05 02:02:39 <theymos> The network sort of works on $$$=votes, since you can buy CPU power.
292 2010-12-05 02:02:42 <Kiba> there are only inidviduals
293 2010-12-05 02:04:14 <joe_1> mtg: ok, i'm interested in how you're going to do it. do you know yet?
294 2010-12-05 02:05:33 <Kiba> it is clear that you think voting is fine, dabbish1
295 2010-12-05 02:05:55 <dabbish1> Kiba: what do you mean?
296 2010-12-05 02:06:48 <Kiba> majority rule is better than minority rule
297 2010-12-05 02:07:50 <dabbish1> Kiba: yeah, that is basically the principle
298 2010-12-05 02:07:51 <Kiba> you say the internet make it possible to implement direct democracy
299 2010-12-05 02:07:59 <dabbish1> Kiba: yes
300 2010-12-05 02:08:20 <Kiba> but of course, many of us, if not all of us thinks that's a bunch of nonsense
301 2010-12-05 02:08:48 <dabbish1> Kiba: well, that would surprise me, given the decentralized nature of bitcoins
302 2010-12-05 02:09:33 <Kiba> dabbish1: that's because bitcoin is not about voting. It's about markets.
303 2010-12-05 02:09:50 <Kiba> in the sense that it attrack market idealogue
304 2010-12-05 02:09:57 <Kiba> more than it attract democracy supporters
305 2010-12-05 02:10:10 <dabbish1> Kiba: i know, it's a currency. but it enables us to have an alternative to government currencies
306 2010-12-05 02:10:30 <Kiba> if you have a democracy, surely you guys would vote yourself money.
307 2010-12-05 02:10:30 <dabbish1> current governments are quite authoritarian
308 2010-12-05 02:10:36 <theymos> Bitcoin is a way of distributing data. How you interpret that data depends on the code that you have chosen to run. No majority can force you to interpret data in a specific way.
309 2010-12-05 02:10:38 <anarchyx> we need a market of government.. only the best on is allowed to stay
310 2010-12-05 02:10:40 <Kiba> democracy are authoritian.
311 2010-12-05 02:10:55 <MT`AwAy> democracy is a human concept, bitcoin is a computer concept
312 2010-12-05 02:11:13 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: wrong, it's all a human concept.
313 2010-12-05 02:11:15 <MT`AwAy> a democracy would imply every *human* has the same decision power, which is impossible to enforce over internet
314 2010-12-05 02:11:17 <Kiba> humans invent computers.
315 2010-12-05 02:11:22 <anarchyx> read 'democracy, the god that failed' - great book :)
316 2010-12-05 02:11:24 <dabbish1> Kiba: so what do you propose to replace it the representative democracy?
317 2010-12-05 02:11:25 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: one can be implemented with computers
318 2010-12-05 02:11:31 <MT`AwAy> and has fixed mathematical rules
319 2010-12-05 02:11:48 <mtgox> joe_1: yes I more or less know. I'll post a description soon
320 2010-12-05 02:11:53 <jgarzik> we have a market for government. you "buy" by immigrating to a new country.
321 2010-12-05 02:11:57 <Kiba> dabbish1: markets, and more markets.
322 2010-12-05 02:12:11 <Kiba> jgarzik: that's a rather expensive form of market
323 2010-12-05 02:12:21 <Kiba> only 200 nations for like what? 6 billions.
324 2010-12-05 02:12:33 nelisky has joined
325 2010-12-05 02:13:46 <dabbish1> Kiba: so who do you propose create laws?
326 2010-12-05 02:13:53 <Kiba> markets.
327 2010-12-05 02:14:09 <dabbish1> Kiba: so how would a market create a law?
328 2010-12-05 02:14:18 <Kiba> through protection agencies.
329 2010-12-05 02:14:29 <dabbish1> and what are those?
330 2010-12-05 02:14:39 <Kiba> policemen.
331 2010-12-05 02:14:46 <dabbish1> lol
332 2010-12-05 02:14:49 <Kiba> but, really it's the court you patronize
333 2010-12-05 02:14:59 <Kiba> you can choose any c ourt you want...
334 2010-12-05 02:15:00 <dabbish1> police create law, so kinda like a police state then you mean?
335 2010-12-05 02:15:18 <Kiba> dabbish1: nope. It's created by the court, enforced by the police...that you pay.
336 2010-12-05 02:15:18 <dabbish1> fascism?
337 2010-12-05 02:15:33 <theymos> dabbish1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
338 2010-12-05 02:15:34 <Kiba> the key is buying and selling of police and court service.
339 2010-12-05 02:16:03 <dabbish1> so if you don't like the police force, you go for another?
340 2010-12-05 02:16:17 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
341 2010-12-05 02:16:38 <Kiba> yeah, just like you switch internet service provider, switch between grocery stores, and so on. At least that's the principle.
342 2010-12-05 02:17:14 <anarchyx> anarcho capitalism = great
343 2010-12-05 02:17:21 <dabbish1> ok, so what happens if they make a law and put me behind bars?
344 2010-12-05 02:17:31 <Kiba> anarchyx: it's voluntarism. Anarcho-capitalism iis a specific implementation.
345 2010-12-05 02:17:40 <Kiba> dabbish1: why would they put their own customer behind bar?
346 2010-12-05 02:17:52 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
347 2010-12-05 02:18:05 <dabbish1> because they are the mafia and they will put you behind bars if you don't pay, for example
348 2010-12-05 02:18:13 <Kiba> customers in jail are not productive, dabbish1
349 2010-12-05 02:18:26 <theymos> Hire another protection agency to protect you. That protection agency will quickly lose reputation and customers.
350 2010-12-05 02:18:31 <anarchyx> my question is: who decides on the laws?
351 2010-12-05 02:18:34 a_meteorite has joined
352 2010-12-05 02:18:38 ColonelPanic1 has joined
353 2010-12-05 02:18:51 <Kiba> anarchyx: through the process of market evolution I guess like how English common laws emerge.
354 2010-12-05 02:19:07 <Kiba> at least, that's my understanding.
355 2010-12-05 02:19:13 <anarchyx> is there a constitution, a basic right for everyone?
356 2010-12-05 02:19:30 <joe_1> private court system? it won't work. i'm somewhat libertarian but arbitration is a private version of court systems and it's well known to be flawed, favoring corporations over the customer.
357 2010-12-05 02:19:31 <anarchyx> cause the only part i didnt figure out yet, is the actual implementation of constitution/law system
358 2010-12-05 02:19:31 <anarchyx> e
359 2010-12-05 02:19:34 <Kiba> it would be common laws.
360 2010-12-05 02:19:35 <anarchyx> everything else makes sense
361 2010-12-05 02:20:07 <theymos> You decide the laws by picking a protection agency with laws you like. If one thing is so abhorrent that people are willing to pay huge sums of money to eliminate it (like murder, possibly), it won't be able to happen anywhere, though.
362 2010-12-05 02:20:09 <Kiba> basically, the idea is that people don't make laws. They discover them.
363 2010-12-05 02:20:53 <Kiba> polycentric law system, basically
364 2010-12-05 02:20:59 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
365 2010-12-05 02:21:04 <anarchyx> you got examples of this?
366 2010-12-05 02:21:13 <Kiba> Midevial Iceland
367 2010-12-05 02:22:47 <theymos> In some islamic countries they have simultanious Sharia law courts and common law courts. If two Sharia law people fight, they settle in a Sharia court, and vice-versa. If two different groups fight, there is a pre-negotiated arbitration agreement. This is kind of like how anarcho-capitalist "law enforcement" would work.
368 2010-12-05 02:22:49 <dabbish1> Kiba: so what about social medicine? that wouldn't exist under anarcho-capitalism right? you pay for health care or you don't get it, right?
369 2010-12-05 02:23:31 <ColonelPanic1> dabbish1: I'm just jumping into this now, but why wouldn't charity exist?
370 2010-12-05 02:23:35 <theymos> If people legitimately care enough to provide other people with free health care, it can exist.
371 2010-12-05 02:23:36 <Kiba> dabbish1: the principle of voluntarism is that taxation, corecision, and slavery are evil.
372 2010-12-05 02:23:55 nelisky has joined
373 2010-12-05 02:24:23 <Kiba> if social medicine violate libertarian ethic, then of course it won't exist in a libertarian society.
374 2010-12-05 02:24:27 <anarchyx> the idea of a monopoly like government doing healthcare is a bad one, cause it has no competition
375 2010-12-05 02:24:40 <anarchyx> and we all know how great government monopolies work (not)
376 2010-12-05 02:25:04 <Kiba> the US healthcare system is a series of rent-seeking guilds, coercision, and regulation.
377 2010-12-05 02:25:38 <anarchyx> thats also why cops are fuckers
378 2010-12-05 02:25:47 <anarchyx> they have a monopolie.. they can get away with a lot
379 2010-12-05 02:25:56 <anarchyx> its not like i can rent another cop
380 2010-12-05 02:26:49 <dabbish1> so in that sense what differentiates an anarcho-capitalist from a liberterian?
381 2010-12-05 02:28:01 <ColonelPanic1> free medicine can exist without the use of force
382 2010-12-05 02:28:02 <Kiba> anarcho-capitalist are libertarians.
383 2010-12-05 02:28:06 <bencoder> libertarian is more an umbrella term that encompasses a wide variety of viewpoints.. or at least, that's how it is now
384 2010-12-05 02:28:09 <ColonelPanic1> think about how much other shit you can get for free
385 2010-12-05 02:28:13 <ColonelPanic1> because someone chose to give it away
386 2010-12-05 02:29:03 <dabbish1> so how come people prefer to label themselves as anarcho-capitalists? doesn't libertarian sound a whole lot betteR?
387 2010-12-05 02:29:06 <anarchyx> i believe that when people have enough money, they will also be loyal towards the poor.. and try to help everyone in society to advance - right now they count on government for that
388 2010-12-05 02:29:28 <Kiba> Mutual aid society
389 2010-12-05 02:29:31 <theymos> dabbish1: Basically, Libertarians believe that people can be compelled to do things without a contract under a few limited circumstances, whereas anarcho-capitalists believe they never should.
390 2010-12-05 02:29:34 <anarchyx> like they count on government to declase medicine safe.. FDA is the biggest crook ever
391 2010-12-05 02:29:53 <bencoder> dabbish1: because libertarian encompasses a lot, people choose anarcho capitalist to specify a particular "brand" of libertarian. But I tend to self describe with the agorist label more than ancap now
392 2010-12-05 02:30:00 <Kiba> mutual aid societies used to be a prominent feature in American society
393 2010-12-05 02:30:03 <Kiba> they serve everyone
394 2010-12-05 02:30:14 <Kiba> from the poor to the rich frat boys like the freemasons
395 2010-12-05 02:30:49 <Kiba> they work because they are based on principle of reciporacy
396 2010-12-05 02:30:52 <dabbish1> theymos: do thing without a contract? what exactly do you mean by that?
397 2010-12-05 02:31:15 <Kiba> dabbish1: here, bitcoiners don't do things with a contract
398 2010-12-05 02:31:26 <lolcat> I think I want to make a bitcoin casino, or slot machine
399 2010-12-05 02:31:29 <AAA_awright> Is that what we are? Bitcoiners?
400 2010-12-05 02:31:35 <dabbish1> lol
401 2010-12-05 02:31:47 <jgarzik> cat
402 2010-12-05 02:31:50 <Kiba> dabbish1: we expect somebody to try to scam...
403 2010-12-05 02:31:54 <theymos> dabbish1: Some libertarians believe in forced taxation. There are probably other examples.
404 2010-12-05 02:31:55 <Kiba> but we ain't going to raise hell
405 2010-12-05 02:31:56 <joe_1> lolcat would you like to play at a bitcoin asino?
406 2010-12-05 02:31:59 <anarchyx> lolcat: great idea
407 2010-12-05 02:32:12 <dabbish1> these are some interesting ideas i must admit
408 2010-12-05 02:32:16 <Kiba> there are not going to be a great lynching of a....
409 2010-12-05 02:32:18 <Kiba> fraudster
410 2010-12-05 02:32:37 <Kiba> but if you're found out to be a fraud, there will be some...blacklisting
411 2010-12-05 02:33:12 <anarchyx> reputation systems are already present in #bitcoin-otc
412 2010-12-05 02:33:31 <Kiba> nanotube: you received my loan payment? Rated me already?
413 2010-12-05 02:33:44 <lolcat> joe_1: I would love to
414 2010-12-05 02:33:57 <Kiba> there's already a bitcoin casino, lolcat
415 2010-12-05 02:34:07 <lolcat> anarchyx: I just have to figure out how I can get bitcoin running on a server playing with my server
416 2010-12-05 02:34:09 <Kiba> it's called Dragon Tales
417 2010-12-05 02:34:12 <joe_1> come to cashcow.no-ip.org enter in a new username and password for yourself and let me know what it is. i'll set you up with 10 coins complimentary
418 2010-12-05 02:34:14 <dabbish1> so what about the current economic situation for the U.S? what are you guys anticipating? hyper-inflation? mild recession?
419 2010-12-05 02:34:16 <AAA_awright> f?
420 2010-12-05 02:34:35 <Kiba> dabbish1: it should be the..."WORLD"
421 2010-12-05 02:34:47 <Kiba> you see, we live in a global economy
422 2010-12-05 02:34:52 <dabbish1> Kiba: you think the world would be as affected as the US?
423 2010-12-05 02:34:55 <anarchyx> lolcat: i think you should be able to buy any major gambling software out there.. the only thing different is that you exchange credits for bitcoins and vica versa
424 2010-12-05 02:35:02 <Kiba> dabbish1: absolutely. China depend on us for trade.
425 2010-12-05 02:35:16 <dabbish1> Kiba: yes but certain countries don't have a massive debt problem
426 2010-12-05 02:35:23 <lolcat> joe_1: xae8koo
427 2010-12-05 02:35:27 <Kiba> dabbish1: still affect them
428 2010-12-05 02:35:33 <lolcat> anarchyx: Even open-source?
429 2010-12-05 02:35:40 <Kiba> you see, it's the connections between the countries that rope everyone into this global economy
430 2010-12-05 02:35:48 <Kiba> we become wealthy
431 2010-12-05 02:35:49 <jgarzik> the countries that don't have a massive debt problem are inextricably linked to those that do :)
432 2010-12-05 02:35:50 <Kiba> by trading
433 2010-12-05 02:35:53 <Kiba> goods and services
434 2010-12-05 02:35:58 <theymos> I expect worldwide economic collapse, and subsequently a great increase in Bitcoin adoption. ;)
435 2010-12-05 02:36:03 <jgarzik> :)
436 2010-12-05 02:36:04 <Kiba> on inidivdiual, local, than national...then international
437 2010-12-05 02:36:21 <Kiba> theymos: it will be a very short worldwide collapse
438 2010-12-05 02:36:24 <anarchyx> lolcat: dont know if theres open source, but doesnt really matter.. you choose what your casino credits are worth and what they are exchanged for
439 2010-12-05 02:36:30 <Kiba> and subsequently supergrowth
440 2010-12-05 02:36:46 <lolcat> anarchyx: The exchange bit is complicated
441 2010-12-05 02:37:06 <anarchyx> lolcat: how so?
442 2010-12-05 02:37:19 <Kiba> just like we have a fast recovery in 1920 or something
443 2010-12-05 02:37:36 <lolcat> My coding skills are a bit rusty
444 2010-12-05 02:38:00 <lolcat> I need to understand the api for bitcoin and connect that to php/javascript or something
445 2010-12-05 02:38:18 <nanotube> Kiba: yes, received. :)
446 2010-12-05 02:38:37 <joe_1> lolcat thank you comp is now available
447 2010-12-05 02:38:50 <nanotube> Kiba: rated
448 2010-12-05 02:39:11 <bencoder> lolcat: it's pretty damn simple with the json-rpc php lib
449 2010-12-05 02:39:17 <nanotube> ;;bc,mtgox
450 2010-12-05 02:39:17 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2589,"low":0.205,"vol":28445,"buy":0.22,"sell":0.234,"last":0.22}}
451 2010-12-05 02:39:21 <lolcat> joe_1: THank you
452 2010-12-05 02:39:30 <anarchyx> theres a huge demand for online gambling from americans.. visa/mastercard banned casino transactions for americans.. youre entering a tricky zone but it would be succesfull
453 2010-12-05 02:39:50 <Kiba> the first thing you think of is a casino?
454 2010-12-05 02:39:51 <lolcat> bencoder: I should get going with it, because having a slot machine would be awesome
455 2010-12-05 02:39:54 <Kiba> could be a lucractive business
456 2010-12-05 02:40:16 <lolcat> Probably, tax free coins I can hide untill times gets worse
457 2010-12-05 02:40:43 ciuciu has joined
458 2010-12-05 02:40:57 <anarchyx> we need to enhance the internet so it becomes an untrackeable anarchy and people can do whatever the fuck they want - like gambling
459 2010-12-05 02:41:11 <nanotube> anarchyx: freenet :)
460 2010-12-05 02:41:20 <Kiba> anarchyx: talk is cheap.
461 2010-12-05 02:41:30 <anarchyx> nanotube: yes - but i tried it 5 years ago and it was so slow :)
462 2010-12-05 02:41:34 <lolcat> So it is a safe way to hide many?
463 2010-12-05 02:41:37 <anarchyx> i know kiba
464 2010-12-05 02:41:38 <nanotube> anarchyx: they say it's much faster now.
465 2010-12-05 02:41:47 <nanotube> anarchyx: though i myself haven't tried it recently (yet).
466 2010-12-05 02:41:48 <anarchyx> the thing is
467 2010-12-05 02:41:55 <jgarzik> lolcat: encryption
468 2010-12-05 02:42:13 <anarchyx> the more that gov are gonna start banning sites, like the torrent ban, and now wikileaks getting in trouble.. the sooner it will emerge
469 2010-12-05 02:42:26 <lolcat> joe_1: Is there a magick way to place bets? I cant seam to manage
470 2010-12-05 02:42:29 <Kiba> you sound sure of success
471 2010-12-05 02:42:36 <jgarzik> the darknet already exists. you are just not a member.
472 2010-12-05 02:42:52 <anarchyx> its inevitable
473 2010-12-05 02:42:53 <joe_1> lolcat: click the gold bitcoin that says Roulette
474 2010-12-05 02:43:08 <anarchyx> the reason why the internet became big was because of its freedom.. it will always revert back to that
475 2010-12-05 02:43:08 <joe_1> then you will get to the roulette table. Have you gotten this far?
476 2010-12-05 02:43:11 <dabbish1> Kiba: interesting conversation, thanks. my take on it is that anarcho-capitalism would be an ideal society to live in. but in order to achieve it, human beings would have to go through different stages of democratic change. if history teaches us anything it is that change happens slowly in stages. and before we ever reach anarcho-capitalism i truly believe there has to be a democratic system like direct democracy. because people aren't just ready to imp
477 2010-12-05 02:43:20 <theymos> Freenet requires major hacks to do any real-time communication. Something like I2P or maybe Netsukuku is the future.
478 2010-12-05 02:43:20 <Kiba> GOSH
479 2010-12-05 02:43:24 <anarchyx> bitcoin is the perfect compliment
480 2010-12-05 02:43:25 <Kiba> we don't want democracy!
481 2010-12-05 02:43:39 <Kiba> and this is not a democractic community.
482 2010-12-05 02:44:01 <bencoder> dabbish1: I agree with you that it has to be incremental, but the incrementalism needs to be moving away from democracy.
483 2010-12-05 02:44:06 <lolcat> joe_1: I have, I am looking at the rulet table, but Min bet max bet, total chips bet paid and round it is empty and teh roulett never stop
484 2010-12-05 02:44:08 <Kiba> it's a community of peers.
485 2010-12-05 02:44:16 <nanotube> theymos: how does the security/anonymity of i2p compare with that of freenet?
486 2010-12-05 02:44:31 <theymos> dabbish1: The next step is seasteading, I think.
487 2010-12-05 02:44:39 <anarchyx> to reach ancap/libertarian society we need an alternative, anonymous currency system.. like this one.. to emerge
488 2010-12-05 02:44:46 <anarchyx> currency is a very important link
489 2010-12-05 02:44:58 <bencoder> hey, theymos... do i recognise your nick from the SS forums?
490 2010-12-05 02:45:09 <Kiba> theymos is theymos, bencoder
491 2010-12-05 02:45:11 <theymos> bencoder: What is SS?
492 2010-12-05 02:45:14 <bencoder> seasteading
493 2010-12-05 02:45:18 <bencoder> nevermind i guess not :)
494 2010-12-05 02:45:23 <Kiba> SS sound like an evil nazi organization
495 2010-12-05 02:45:31 <theymos> If I ever posted there, it was only once or twice.
496 2010-12-05 02:45:37 <bencoder> ah right
497 2010-12-05 02:45:47 <anarchyx> seasteading seems to have been dying a bit lately
498 2010-12-05 02:45:49 <Kiba> I think seasteaders think bitcoin is a meh idea
499 2010-12-05 02:45:57 <bencoder> yeah, it does, anarchyx :/
500 2010-12-05 02:45:58 <Kiba> anarchyx: I don't see any visible progress
501 2010-12-05 02:46:13 <nanotube> btw, feel free to take the systems of govt discussions over #bitcoin-discussion ...
502 2010-12-05 02:46:18 <bencoder> Kiba: I'm a (wannabe) seasteader
503 2010-12-05 02:46:21 <anarchyx> i have an idea for an alternative society.. it can work
504 2010-12-05 02:46:47 * nanotube is waiting for spacesteading...
505 2010-12-05 02:46:49 <AAA_awright> anarchyx: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1884.0
506 2010-12-05 02:46:58 <Kiba> nanotube: internet would be so slow
507 2010-12-05 02:47:09 <nanotube> Kiba: local caching
508 2010-12-05 02:47:09 <Kiba> unless we figure out faster than light communication
509 2010-12-05 02:47:18 <anarchyx> tnx aaa
510 2010-12-05 02:47:26 <Kiba> real time game are impossible, nanotube
511 2010-12-05 02:47:33 <Kiba> at least with earthlings
512 2010-12-05 02:47:45 <joe_1> lolcat: Please right-click anywhere in the roulette wheel, and choose Settings. This should open up your flash settings. Make sure there is some amount of storage allowed. Do you have any special configuration for your flash that might cause flash applications to fail? Also, try reloading the page. I have never seen the behavior you are describing. It may be an unreliable network connection.
513 2010-12-05 02:48:04 <anarchyx> you can travel FTL but only without your body.. out of body
514 2010-12-05 02:48:19 <theymos> nanotube: Freenet's code is really messy. I am 100% sure that if you were actually targetted by any remotely powerful attacker, they would be able to find you, especially in OpenNet mode. I2P is very much like Tor hidden services, which is a nice and simple use of cryptography, but one vulnerable to intersection attacks. It's also more centralized, requiring a few floodfil routers to maintain routerInfo data.
515 2010-12-05 02:48:34 <AAA_awright> anarchyx: But anything that would route a message to the private key holder fairly quickly would be awesome
516 2010-12-05 02:49:05 <theymos> nanotube: So I would say I2P is more anonymous, though I like the goals of Freenet more.
517 2010-12-05 02:49:08 <AAA_awright> Instead of specifying a server to send an email message to, you specify a public key hash to deliver to
518 2010-12-05 02:49:15 <lolcat> joe_1: I rigth clicked and changed to unlimited, didnt do anthing. Maybe it is linuxs fault
519 2010-12-05 02:49:23 <anarchyx> god i love this channel :P its with all the right people and thinkers in the world :)
520 2010-12-05 02:49:39 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
521 2010-12-05 02:49:57 <bencoder> hehe
522 2010-12-05 02:49:59 <Kiba> this is practical anarchy at its best
523 2010-12-05 02:50:25 <Kiba> no more sitting around and talking about how bad governments is
524 2010-12-05 02:50:36 <Kiba> but we can actually do something constructive
525 2010-12-05 02:50:42 <bencoder> yes, that's why i love this so much, Kiba
526 2010-12-05 02:50:43 <anarchyx> well said :)
527 2010-12-05 02:51:12 <lolcat> joe_1: Are you using some special ports? A lot of ports are blocked here
528 2010-12-05 02:52:12 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
529 2010-12-05 02:52:13 <nanotube> theymos: well, from what i hear, there's quite a bit of CP on freenet... if that isn't enough incentive for the government (powerful attacker indeed) to attack... then maybe it's not quite as easy?
530 2010-12-05 02:52:23 darrob has joined
531 2010-12-05 02:52:32 <theymos> nanotube: They don't care about difficult targets.
532 2010-12-05 02:52:36 <joe_1> yes, the site is on port 10619, but that is the same port that the flash app communicates with. So if you are seeing the rest of the site, it is not clear why the flash app is not working. It is probably, as you said, due to the fact that you are using a Linux browser, and the site has not been tested on Linux browsers. It is likely that the site will work for you from a Windows browser.
533 2010-12-05 02:53:57 <theymos> nanotube: I once read a post from someone who claimed to be a police officer in some "computer crimes" division. He said that he's never once had someone who even used TrueCrypt. Freenet users are practicing security by obscurity, IMO.
534 2010-12-05 02:53:57 <nanotube> theymos: ah because they have plenty of lower-hanging fruit?
535 2010-12-05 02:54:02 <dabbish1> ok, and out of curiosity, what are you guys take on 9/11?
536 2010-12-05 02:54:22 <theymos> nanotube: Right.
537 2010-12-05 02:54:31 <Kiba> I believe it was not an inside job.
538 2010-12-05 02:54:44 <Kiba> if it was an inside job, wikileaks would already know and release it.
539 2010-12-05 02:54:46 <bencoder> I believe it doesn't really matter if it was or wasn't
540 2010-12-05 02:55:03 <dabbish1> ok
541 2010-12-05 02:55:09 <Kiba> bencoder: the response was just a bunch of dumb showy movie
542 2010-12-05 02:55:13 <bencoder> governments have killed people for less and will continue to do so
543 2010-12-05 02:55:13 <nanotube> dabbish1: my take: terrorism sucks. :P
544 2010-12-05 02:55:29 <Kiba> the government shows security
545 2010-12-05 02:55:31 <Kiba> not make security
546 2010-12-05 02:55:34 <Kiba> get it?
547 2010-12-05 02:55:41 <bencoder> yep
548 2010-12-05 02:55:52 <Kiba> plus, we have a security industrial complex with all kind of fancy tech.
549 2010-12-05 02:56:01 <nanotube> it's big business
550 2010-12-05 02:56:11 <xelister> nanotube brocktice if someone sees Diablo-3d, tell him to fix his miner (also fails on brocktie's box... :-/)
551 2010-12-05 02:56:20 <Kiba> and they invented expensive toys with dubious killing potential
552 2010-12-05 02:56:20 <nanotube> theymos: mm i see. i'll look into i2p as well. :)
553 2010-12-05 02:56:25 <nanotube> xelister: use the bot messaging service
554 2010-12-05 02:56:27 <bencoder> if it wasn't an inside job, it was bound to happen some time regardless, and the response would be the same
555 2010-12-05 02:56:29 <nanotube> ;;help later tell
556 2010-12-05 02:56:29 <gribble> (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
557 2010-12-05 02:56:38 <dabbish1> and what about the kennedy assassination?
558 2010-12-05 02:56:45 <nanotube> ;;seen diablo-d3
559 2010-12-05 02:56:45 <gribble> diablo-d3 was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: * Diablo-D3 goes for real
560 2010-12-05 02:56:56 <nanotube> xelister: make sure to use the correct nick too. :)
561 2010-12-05 02:56:57 <Kiba> dabbish1: who fucking care about JFK?
562 2010-12-05 02:57:04 <Kiba> he's a speed freak and a statist.
563 2010-12-05 02:57:35 <theymos> nanotube: I really like the design of GNUnet, but I can't get it to run on my Windows box, so I've never actually tried it.
564 2010-12-05 02:57:46 <nanotube> mm gnunet? /me googles.
565 2010-12-05 02:57:46 <lolcat> joe_1: I don't have windows, and buying a copy of windows to buy a flash game seams a bit extencive.
566 2010-12-05 02:57:54 <dabbish1> ok, well. thanks for the convo guys. it was interesting. although i must say i kinda lost respect for you. let's just say i will put you in my sheep category
567 2010-12-05 02:57:55 <lolcat> play a flash game
568 2010-12-05 02:58:04 dabbish1 has left ()
569 2010-12-05 02:58:04 <bencoder> hah
570 2010-12-05 02:58:04 <Kiba> sheeps? we are sheeps?
571 2010-12-05 02:58:29 <nanotube> theymos: ah interesting. :)
572 2010-12-05 02:58:32 <ArtForz> lol
573 2010-12-05 02:58:40 <Kiba> bencoder: he doesn't brother to understand our philosophy
574 2010-12-05 02:59:06 <bencoder> Kiba: I don't think it mattered what our philosophy was if we didn't believe in the 9/11 being an inside job
575 2010-12-05 02:59:06 <anarchyx> AAA_awright: theres systems out there.. like this http://antsp2p.sourceforge.net/
576 2010-12-05 02:59:13 <anarchyx> or MUTE
577 2010-12-05 02:59:21 <Kiba> bencoder: true dat.
578 2010-12-05 02:59:35 <AAA_awright> anarchyx: Basically what I want is this
579 2010-12-05 03:00:23 <AAA_awright> anarchyx: I'm dreaming of an email system where there are no hosts or servers, but everyone receives emails with their private key, it's routed to the private key holder
580 2010-12-05 03:00:26 <theymos> anarchyx: Mute is very vulnerable to attacks against the network because it doesn't use end-to-end encryption, and its design makes it impossible for it to do so.
581 2010-12-05 03:00:38 <AAA_awright> On top of this, you build a social networking platform so you can send RDF data to your friends
582 2010-12-05 03:00:46 <theymos> anarchyx: And Ants P2P has the same problem.
583 2010-12-05 03:00:53 <joe_1> lolcat: Windows is free. But I agree with you in any case. If you want to put in the research, I would recommend finding out if your linux firefox browser has the official flash plugin made by Adobe, and that it is a recent version. If it all looks good, then there is probably nothing else that can be done on your end to make it work on linux. In this case, you can withdraw the coins (there
584 2010-12-05 03:00:53 <joe_1> is no playthrough requirement) and check back for an HTML version of the game in the near future.
585 2010-12-05 03:00:54 <AAA_awright> And get a nice little, semantically meaningful, news feed in your email client
586 2010-12-05 03:00:54 <Kiba> hushmail?
587 2010-12-05 03:01:23 <Kiba> Jon Matonis - CEO of hushmail..hmm
588 2010-12-05 03:01:51 <bencoder> Kiba: I just don't think it matters, governments are a problem... if they did it, it's an extra 3000 lives on top of the millions they've killed, or hundreds of thousands if you only count recent history, and those killings can be verified, but I guess they don't care so much if it's brown people being killed.
589 2010-12-05 03:02:19 <Kiba> bencoder: and all the road accidents
590 2010-12-05 03:02:22 <anarchyx> AAA_awright: so basically, you have the email floating out there, and when you login with your private key it will gravitate towards you?
591 2010-12-05 03:03:01 <Kiba> ambulance: SHIT! FUCK! WE'RE STUCK IN TRAFFICS
592 2010-12-05 03:03:13 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
593 2010-12-05 03:03:39 <anarchyx> theymos: is there a good darknet out there already?
594 2010-12-05 03:04:36 <Kiba> ya know. without bitcoin, we wouldn't have come up with..BitDNS
595 2010-12-05 03:04:45 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
596 2010-12-05 03:04:54 <anarchyx> yes :)
597 2010-12-05 03:04:54 <bencoder> Kiba: of course, unquantifiable number of people who've died prematurely because of government policies. but, by it's nature, it's unquantifiable and so difficult to argue with
598 2010-12-05 03:06:42 <bencoder> about a week before i first discovered bitcoin i was thinking really hard trying to come up with a way to do it... but I couldn't. Thank you Satoshi.
599 2010-12-05 03:06:46 <Kiba> bencoder: so, what you got for code now.
600 2010-12-05 03:07:01 <bencoder> not much further yet, will be working on it tomorrow
601 2010-12-05 03:07:02 <Kiba> try to think of it too, but never could.
602 2010-12-05 03:07:34 <Kiba> I wonder how the heck Satoshi come up with the idea.
603 2010-12-05 03:07:39 <AAA_awright> anarchyx: Yeah
604 2010-12-05 03:08:05 <theymos> anarchyx: Not one that is all-around good. I like Tor hidden services, though that is not a true darknet because it relies on centralized directory servers. And I like GNUnet's design, but I can't get it to run (and if I can't, many other people can't). I suspect that both I2P and Freenet (as well as Bitcoin) have flaws that a determined attacker could exploit to do damage to the network or target an individual.
605 2010-12-05 03:08:25 <AAA_awright> Ever see any experement where you just pass off a message to someone you think is closer to the recipiant and see if it gets there?
606 2010-12-05 03:08:55 <joe_1> I2p and bitcoin could be combined to get rid of the freeloader problem
607 2010-12-05 03:09:05 <bencoder> heard about them, AAA_awright. latency sucks though
608 2010-12-05 03:09:20 <AAA_awright> Well if it's a physical letter of course
609 2010-12-05 03:09:22 <lolcat> joe_1: I will get that done, I just have to get some sleep first, my brain is slow when I am tired
610 2010-12-05 03:09:36 <AAA_awright> bencoder: But it gets the job done, and with future messages you can optimize the route
611 2010-12-05 03:09:43 <bencoder> yea
612 2010-12-05 03:09:56 <ArtForz> sounds a bit like freenet-meet-kad
613 2010-12-05 03:10:12 <bencoder> damnit we need a more critical mass of people to care about this stuff so we can start up a proper mesh network
614 2010-12-05 03:10:28 <joe_1> ok, haha, me too. Sorry that we ran into this problem.
615 2010-12-05 03:10:38 <Kiba> bencoder: hmm..aurdino mesh routers?
616 2010-12-05 03:10:39 <theymos> AAA_awright: GNUnet is very like that.
617 2010-12-05 03:10:40 <Kiba> interesting
618 2010-12-05 03:11:24 mizerydearia has joined
619 2010-12-05 03:12:19 <bencoder> Kiba: anything, just a new physical layer seperate from the net, buit anonymously and cryptographically from the start
620 2010-12-05 03:12:25 <joe_1> bencoder is there any way you can combine i2p with bitcoin and have it done by, say, mid-February?
621 2010-12-05 03:12:34 <bencoder> no
622 2010-12-05 03:12:42 <joe_1> April?
623 2010-12-05 03:12:46 <AAA_awright> joe_1: i2p?
624 2010-12-05 03:12:50 Diablo-D3 has joined
625 2010-12-05 03:12:59 <joe_1> i2p is a garlic routing network
626 2010-12-05 03:13:07 <joe_1> i dont know how it compares to a mesh network i dont know what a mesh network is
627 2010-12-05 03:13:28 <Kiba> bencoder is working on a download site
628 2010-12-05 03:13:35 <bencoder> despite my name, my coding skills are fairly limited, i'll leave it to someone who knows what they're doing with both of those technologies
629 2010-12-05 03:13:38 <Kiba> I am working on an open source prediction market
630 2010-12-05 03:13:48 <bencoder> joe_1: i was talking physical
631 2010-12-05 03:13:51 <Kiba> I am working on a new business
632 2010-12-05 03:13:57 <Kiba> I am making art...
633 2010-12-05 03:13:58 <Kiba> etc
634 2010-12-05 03:14:01 <Kiba> busy busy busy people
635 2010-12-05 03:14:25 <joe_1> oh
636 2010-12-05 03:14:46 <Kiba> if you don't have time, maybe pledge a bounty for such a project
637 2010-12-05 03:14:52 <bencoder> wireless mesh networks, privately owned cables from property to property
638 2010-12-05 03:15:06 <joe_1> oh ok
639 2010-12-05 03:15:15 <Kiba> we already have wireless mesh systems, right?
640 2010-12-05 03:15:29 <bencoder> yeah
641 2010-12-05 03:15:29 <[Noodles]> shouldn't be such a big deal to get bitcoin run within i2p, creating some tor-like exit-nodes to connect to the main-blockchain might be
642 2010-12-05 03:16:20 <joe_1> the problem with i2p is it is painfully slow and i think it's cause there's no money in it. basically the i2p packets need to contain bitcoins to get these nodes to route this data really fast
643 2010-12-05 03:16:25 <[Noodles]> but an i2p-fork should be working almost outof the box, shouldn't it?
644 2010-12-05 03:16:34 <[Noodles]> yeah, slow it is
645 2010-12-05 03:22:03 <Kiba> why is it so slow?
646 2010-12-05 03:24:01 <joe_1> cause it's a chain of proxies, pretty much, between you and your destination. so the connection is as fast as the slowest person in the chain
647 2010-12-05 03:24:40 <joe_1> and the ping is the sum of everyone's ping in the chain
648 2010-12-05 03:25:05 <Kiba> keeping serects is sure hard.
649 2010-12-05 03:31:24 <lolcat> Is there some quiet bitcoin generator somewhere? That I could just stick in a computer and leave alone that would send me its bitcoins when done?
650 2010-12-05 03:31:55 <theymos> You could probably set up jgarzik's miner to do that.
651 2010-12-05 03:31:57 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
652 2010-12-05 03:33:05 <[Noodles]> cron, php, json-rpc, here's some scripts on the forums i think, i guess that's what he looking for
653 2010-12-05 03:33:11 <[Noodles]> +t
654 2010-12-05 03:34:10 <[Noodles]> just check bitcoins balance and if theres any, send them to another wallet
655 2010-12-05 03:34:20 <theymos> So you'd just have to run a bitcoind server somewhere, set up jgarzik's miner on a bunch of computers, and have them all pull work for your central miner. It shouldn't be too hard to have the miner run silently.
656 2010-12-05 03:35:12 FreeMoney has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
657 2010-12-05 03:38:11 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
658 2010-12-05 03:39:41 <nanotube> hey... so how easy would it be to allow arbitrary message text to be included with a tx?
659 2010-12-05 03:39:51 <nanotube> (so that it is embedded in the block chain)?
660 2010-12-05 03:40:04 <theymos> Trivial. But only patched clients could accept such transactions.
661 2010-12-05 03:41:01 <nanotube> aha
662 2010-12-05 03:43:02 <joe_1> i need the bitcoin price to be artifically inflated to $100 or $1000 per coin so i can dump my coins before it falls back to 0.25.
663 2010-12-05 03:43:28 <joe_1> i dont feel like waiting the year or two for it to naturally get to those levels
664 2010-12-05 03:44:28 <jgarzik> :)
665 2010-12-05 03:47:22 <nanotube> joe_1: haha, feel free to do it yourself. :P it would only take like a million usd, maybe. hah.
666 2010-12-05 03:47:37 <nanotube> of course, you'd not make any profit, if you're the one pumping it.
667 2010-12-05 03:47:40 <nanotube> but that's a separate question.
668 2010-12-05 03:49:56 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
669 2010-12-05 03:54:27 mizerydearia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
670 2010-12-05 03:56:44 <joe_1> i could jump on mt gox, buy up all the asks up to 100$, hope that bids fall in around 99$, dump my coins, then tell mtgox all the buys were unauthorized and ask them to revert those trades.
671 2010-12-05 03:59:55 <joe_1> mtgox will happily reverse those trades and i will have sold all of my coins at 99.
672 2010-12-05 04:01:39 <nanotube> yea, only problem is... mtgox will not happily reverse those trades. :P
673 2010-12-05 04:03:02 mizerydearia has joined
674 2010-12-05 04:03:30 jrabbit has joined
675 2010-12-05 04:10:09 mizerydearia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
676 2010-12-05 04:10:37 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
677 2010-12-05 04:10:57 mizerydearia has joined
678 2010-12-05 04:16:45 jrabbit has joined
679 2010-12-05 04:29:51 <lolcat> There are methods to inflate a marked
680 2010-12-05 04:30:43 <Diablo-D3> s/ed/et/
681 2010-12-05 04:30:59 <Diablo-D3> who is em3rgent0rdr on the forums?
682 2010-12-05 04:30:59 <lolcat> rigth
683 2010-12-05 04:31:23 <lolcat> Could a computer make 50bitcoins a day?
684 2010-12-05 04:31:31 <MT`AwAy> lolcat: with some gpu inside, yeah
685 2010-12-05 04:31:39 <Kiba> ArtForz have 24 GPUs
686 2010-12-05 04:31:41 <Kiba> I heard
687 2010-12-05 04:31:45 <Kiba> so he produce more than 50 BTC
688 2010-12-05 04:31:51 <Kiba> but he's not exactly happy with the price drop
689 2010-12-05 04:32:26 <Diablo-D3> not 24 yet
690 2010-12-05 04:32:33 <Diablo-D3> he has a few still on backorder
691 2010-12-05 04:32:47 <lolcat> I am seeing the pricedrop
692 2010-12-05 04:32:57 <Kiba> teh ymust have think artforz as a supercustomer
693 2010-12-05 04:32:59 <lolcat> I hope it raises to 0,28 on mtgox
694 2010-12-05 04:33:11 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, he has like a dozen 5970s now
695 2010-12-05 04:33:15 <Diablo-D3> oh wait
696 2010-12-05 04:33:18 <lolcat> But a cheap vps, like linode, would usually have a burstable cpu
697 2010-12-05 04:33:20 <Diablo-D3> I guess that would be 24 GPUs now
698 2010-12-05 04:33:32 <Diablo-D3> since 5970 == 2x 5870
699 2010-12-05 04:33:47 * Kiba decides to dedicate himself to BitDNS
700 2010-12-05 04:33:49 <Kiba> err
701 2010-12-05 04:33:53 <Kiba> no, no, no, no
702 2010-12-05 04:33:58 <Kiba> you already have too much projects, kiba
703 2010-12-05 04:34:14 <fedorared> VPS would not be an effective way to mine
704 2010-12-05 04:34:21 <fedorared> You won't make any friends stealing all the CPU
705 2010-12-05 04:34:30 <Diablo-D3> fedorared: no
706 2010-12-05 04:34:33 <Diablo-D3> er
707 2010-12-05 04:34:33 <Diablo-D3> yes
708 2010-12-05 04:34:35 <Diablo-D3> its not effective
709 2010-12-05 04:34:58 <Diablo-D3> taking the cheapest options, either use rapidxen or use rackspace's cloudspace service...
710 2010-12-05 04:35:03 <Diablo-D3> its still more expensive than just buying GPUs.
711 2010-12-05 04:37:17 mizerydearia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
712 2010-12-05 04:38:32 mizerydearia has joined
713 2010-12-05 04:44:03 <Diablo-D3> so hrm
714 2010-12-05 04:44:11 fedorared has quit (Quit: fedorared)
715 2010-12-05 04:44:14 * Diablo-D3 looks at his miner, and sees that it is good.
716 2010-12-05 04:45:13 <donpdonp> Diablo-D3: how many kilohashes/sec do you get from a 5870?
717 2010-12-05 04:45:33 <Diablo-D3> iirc art said its like 350 mhash
718 2010-12-05 04:45:34 mizerydearia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
719 2010-12-05 04:45:46 fedorared has joined
720 2010-12-05 04:45:48 <donpdonp> Diablo-D3: k. cool.
721 2010-12-05 04:46:08 <Diablo-D3> a 5970 is less than twice that due to factory underclocking
722 2010-12-05 04:46:21 <Diablo-D3> its just over 600
723 2010-12-05 04:46:26 mizerydearia has joined
724 2010-12-05 04:46:36 <Diablo-D3> and thats currently the most powerful card for bitcoin
725 2010-12-05 04:46:52 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: 600 overclocked?
726 2010-12-05 04:47:01 <Diablo-D3> 600 normal clocked
727 2010-12-05 04:47:06 <OneFixt> which miner?
728 2010-12-05 04:47:15 <[Noodles]> my 5850 gets <300, a bit oc'd though
729 2010-12-05 04:47:15 <Diablo-D3> everyone's
730 2010-12-05 04:47:25 <OneFixt> i believe art said it was 530 normal clocked
731 2010-12-05 04:47:31 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: er was it?
732 2010-12-05 04:47:39 <OneFixt> i think so
733 2010-12-05 04:47:39 <Diablo-D3> maybe its >600 oc'ed then
734 2010-12-05 04:47:44 <OneFixt> yeah, most likely
735 2010-12-05 04:47:58 <Diablo-D3> a 5970 should perform better than 2x 5850, but not as good as 2x 5870
736 2010-12-05 04:49:03 <Diablo-D3> and sadly
737 2010-12-05 04:49:06 <Diablo-D3> my 4850 does 75 :<
738 2010-12-05 04:49:08 <[Noodles]> at default-clock its 'only' 236M
739 2010-12-05 04:49:26 <Diablo-D3> [Noodles]: what, a 5850?
740 2010-12-05 04:49:32 <[Noodles]> yep
741 2010-12-05 04:49:36 <Diablo-D3> that sounds about right-ish
742 2010-12-05 04:49:38 <Diablo-D3> maybe a tad low
743 2010-12-05 04:49:47 <Diablo-D3> mine should outperform m0's though
744 2010-12-05 04:49:48 <[Noodles]> 5570=50M 64 oc'd
745 2010-12-05 04:49:55 <Diablo-D3> maybe wanna fiddle with -w 64
746 2010-12-05 05:08:15 <Kiba> Wikileaks published diplomatic documents that are BOring
747 2010-12-05 05:10:59 <jrabbit> lol
748 2010-12-05 05:12:09 mizerydearia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
749 2010-12-05 05:32:11 sgornick has joined
750 2010-12-05 05:44:04 andrew12 has joined
751 2010-12-05 05:44:47 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
752 2010-12-05 05:48:35 <ne0futur> paypal blocked wikileaks
753 2010-12-05 05:48:49 <ne0futur> good time to send then a letter iviting them to use btc ?
754 2010-12-05 06:06:05 redMBA has joined
755 2010-12-05 06:08:39 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
756 2010-12-05 06:16:34 jrabbit has joined
757 2010-12-05 06:24:12 RazielZ has joined
758 2010-12-05 06:32:23 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
759 2010-12-05 06:36:20 FreeMoney has joined
760 2010-12-05 06:45:27 TheAncientGoat has joined
761 2010-12-05 06:56:15 <Diablo-D3> so I wonder how many people use my miner
762 2010-12-05 06:56:23 <Kiba> man
763 2010-12-05 06:56:26 <Kiba> I hate ehow
764 2010-12-05 06:56:35 <Kiba> it's the most contentless/unhelpful piece of crap
765 2010-12-05 06:56:48 <Diablo-D3> what is?
766 2010-12-05 06:57:48 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: what is?
767 2010-12-05 06:58:13 <nanotube> i'm guessing ehow is some q+a website
768 2010-12-05 06:58:19 <nanotube> ;;sl ehow
769 2010-12-05 06:58:19 <gribble> http://www.ehow.com/ | Learn how to do just about everything at eHow. Expert Village is now a part of eHow, adding expert How To videos to eHow, the world's most popular place to ...
770 2010-12-05 06:58:26 <nanotube> yea probably that. :)
771 2010-12-05 06:58:30 <Diablo-D3> ahh
772 2010-12-05 06:58:38 <Diablo-D3> so I assume no one uses my miner then :<
773 2010-12-05 06:59:07 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: well, it's seems to be quiet time on channel... you know i don't, cuz i don't have no fancy gpus. :)
774 2010-12-05 06:59:16 <nanotube> neither does kiba, iirc.
775 2010-12-05 06:59:27 <nanotube> everyone else is taking a nap. :)
776 2010-12-05 07:00:50 redengin has joined
777 2010-12-05 07:01:15 * Kiba figures out multiply
778 2010-12-05 07:04:29 <andrew12> oh hi
779 2010-12-05 07:04:59 <Kiba> coloring midnight
780 2010-12-05 07:05:34 <MT`AwAy> xD
781 2010-12-05 07:08:05 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: meh
782 2010-12-05 07:08:08 <Diablo-D3> probably no one uses it
783 2010-12-05 07:10:21 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: have you resolved all the issues you had with it? (iirc you had some issues?)
784 2010-12-05 07:13:06 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: there wernt any issues
785 2010-12-05 07:13:24 <Diablo-D3> the last one was not working with satoshi's getwork
786 2010-12-05 07:13:26 <Diablo-D3> which I did yesterday
787 2010-12-05 07:16:38 <nanotube> ah
788 2010-12-05 07:16:50 <nanotube> mm well maybe you should put up a poll on the forums :)
789 2010-12-05 07:16:55 <Diablo-D3> xelister keeps bitching his shit doesnt work
790 2010-12-05 07:16:58 <nanotube> if you want to know your userbase.
791 2010-12-05 07:16:58 <Diablo-D3> but its his shit not working
792 2010-12-05 07:17:01 <Diablo-D3> not a miner bug
793 2010-12-05 07:17:04 <nanotube> hehe mm
794 2010-12-05 07:20:59 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
795 2010-12-05 07:52:18 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
796 2010-12-05 08:05:07 TheAncientGoat has joined
797 2010-12-05 08:07:38 <xelister> Diablo-D3: what? no
798 2010-12-05 08:07:48 <xelister> Diablo-D3: brocktice also tried your miner, and also it failed
799 2010-12-05 08:07:54 <xelister> it seems your miner is broken
800 2010-12-05 08:07:57 <xelister> on 5970
801 2010-12-05 08:08:46 <xelister> also, I left m0m's overmingt and it so far generated 2 blocks, while yours generates average of 1 block per this time period (x2 slower then expected) - this is too short sample to be sure yet, but still
802 2010-12-05 08:09:07 <xelister> Diablo-D3: brocktice also got invalid-hash warnings from your miner on HIS box too
803 2010-12-05 08:11:27 <xelister> <brocktice> http://pastebin.com/7fNr3u8u <brocktice> Looks like his miner is bugged
804 2010-12-05 08:13:52 <Diablo-D3> xelister: nope, its not my miner
805 2010-12-05 08:14:00 <Diablo-D3> do the errors go away with sdk 2.2?
806 2010-12-05 08:20:40 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rbf7d2dd / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Differenciate different devices with a number in addition to a name - http://bit.ly/f7Hrfl
807 2010-12-05 08:20:44 <Diablo-D3> xelister: try this new change
808 2010-12-05 08:22:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: it should list only devices > 1
809 2010-12-05 08:30:12 <Diablo-D3> xelister: does it?
810 2010-12-05 08:30:43 <Diablo-D3> hrm
811 2010-12-05 08:30:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: guess what
812 2010-12-05 08:31:16 <Diablo-D3> that pastebin you listed has nothing to do with the 5970 bug
813 2010-12-05 08:31:39 <Diablo-D3> I suspect brock ran my miner with the wrong bitcoin
814 2010-12-05 08:33:23 <xelister> Diablo-D3: hm?
815 2010-12-05 08:33:31 <Diablo-D3> ERROR: Invalid block sent to Bitcoin at 1:56:24 PM, possible miner bug
816 2010-12-05 08:33:37 <Diablo-D3> thats when bitcoin returns false on sendwork
817 2010-12-05 08:33:45 <Diablo-D3> thats not when the executor thread returns bad results
818 2010-12-05 08:33:51 <xelister> Diablo-D3: how your miner with wrong bitcoin produces this bug, instead of "invalid format in RPC something" that I seen
819 2010-12-05 08:34:15 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so at no point did brock get your bug
820 2010-12-05 08:34:16 <Diablo-D3> so it is
821 2010-12-05 08:34:16 <Diablo-D3> infact
822 2010-12-05 08:34:17 <xelister> but yea, I get other bugs
823 2010-12-05 08:34:18 <Diablo-D3> your system
824 2010-12-05 08:34:34 <xelister> still your miner doesnt work for him
825 2010-12-05 08:34:41 <xelister> brocktice: you aren't areound, are you?
826 2010-12-05 08:34:51 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt work for him for completely other reasons
827 2010-12-05 08:34:57 <Diablo-D3> I suspect his bitcoin isnt new enough
828 2010-12-05 08:35:00 <xelister> Diablo-D3: well already your miner costed me 200-300 BTC :{ so perhaps we should debug this, like:
829 2010-12-05 08:35:06 <xelister> print G and H and hash and target
830 2010-12-05 08:35:09 <Diablo-D3> nope.
831 2010-12-05 08:35:10 <xelister> for each expected success
832 2010-12-05 08:35:16 <Diablo-D3> printing G and H and hash and target do nothing
833 2010-12-05 08:35:39 <xelister> you are checking g and h, and hash and target are the ultimate information is solution good or bad
834 2010-12-05 08:35:59 <xelister> also, print device on which it was found - i.e. are the bad results always from second gpu
835 2010-12-05 08:36:06 <Diablo-D3> you're trying to say that java's implementation of sha256 is wrong
836 2010-12-05 08:36:21 <Diablo-D3> a sha256 impl used by millions of people every single day
837 2010-12-05 08:36:32 <Diablo-D3> xelister: hello!
838 2010-12-05 08:36:34 <Diablo-D3> pay attention!
839 2010-12-05 08:36:38 <xelister> as a side node, java implementaton of one of crypto functions in fact IS wrong
840 2010-12-05 08:36:43 <Diablo-D3> [03:20:11] <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rbf7d2dd / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Differenciate different devices with a number in addition to a name - http://bit.ly/f7Hrfl
841 2010-12-05 08:36:44 <Diablo-D3> [03:20:14] <Diablo-D3> xelister: try this new change
842 2010-12-05 08:36:44 <Diablo-D3> [03:22:20] <Diablo-D3> xelister: it should list only devices > 1
843 2010-12-05 08:36:44 <Diablo-D3> [03:29:42] <Diablo-D3> xelister: does it?
844 2010-12-05 08:36:49 <Kiba> bob182 is an ass.
845 2010-12-05 08:36:57 <xelister> Diablo-D3: list?
846 2010-12-05 08:37:03 <Diablo-D3> xelister: for bad blocks
847 2010-12-05 08:37:19 <xelister> that is a stupid way to debug... why not just print device name always
848 2010-12-05 08:37:34 <Diablo-D3> xelister: because AMD is stupid and gives all devices the same name
849 2010-12-05 08:37:50 <xelister> then name then in your code [0] [1] as m0m's does
850 2010-12-05 08:38:00 <Diablo-D3> THATS WHAT I DID YOU MORON
851 2010-12-05 08:38:05 <Diablo-D3> PAY FUCKING ATTENTION
852 2010-12-05 08:38:09 <xelister> "list only devices > 1"
853 2010-12-05 08:38:16 <xelister> "list all, with names"
854 2010-12-05 08:38:20 <Diablo-D3> ?
855 2010-12-05 08:38:23 <Diablo-D3> no you idiot
856 2010-12-05 08:38:33 * xelister beats up Diablo-D3 with a carrot
857 2010-12-05 08:38:33 <Diablo-D3> it should only say devices above 1 had bad blocks when you run it
858 2010-12-05 08:38:47 <Diablo-D3> Added Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz (#1) (2 CU, 1x vector, local work size of 64)
859 2010-12-05 08:38:47 <Diablo-D3> Added ATI RV770 (#2) (10 CU, 1x vector, local work size of 64)
860 2010-12-05 08:38:47 <Diablo-D3> Started at Dec 5, 2010 3:27:53 AM
861 2010-12-05 08:38:47 <Diablo-D3> Block 1 found on ATI RV770 (#2) at 3:32:30 AM
862 2010-12-05 08:38:50 <Diablo-D3> see the fucking change?
863 2010-12-05 08:38:55 <xelister> oh. So make more fucking sense. English motherfucker, do. you. speak. it?
864 2010-12-05 08:39:08 * xelister tests
865 2010-12-05 08:39:12 <Diablo-D3> apparently YOU dont
866 2010-12-05 08:39:20 <Diablo-D3> it should list only devices > 1
867 2010-12-05 08:39:30 <Diablo-D3> if it lists 1, then theres something VERY wrong with sdk 2.1
868 2010-12-05 08:39:57 <xelister> btw, 1 is the CPU
869 2010-12-05 08:40:04 <xelister> no wait, you flag it out. nm
870 2010-12-05 08:40:09 <Diablo-D3> yes, I flag it out
871 2010-12-05 08:40:15 <Diablo-D3> I just have it on for me so I can have two devices
872 2010-12-05 08:40:19 <Diablo-D3> it isnt replicating the bug fo rme
873 2010-12-05 08:40:23 <Diablo-D3> only you experience it
874 2010-12-05 08:40:52 <xelister> well I guess the bug may be: In 2 threaded programs, when used in XYZ way, OpenCL programs will produce wrong results on core>1
875 2010-12-05 08:41:04 <Diablo-D3> wrong.
876 2010-12-05 08:41:14 <Diablo-D3> because this is basic opencl usage
877 2010-12-05 08:41:23 <Diablo-D3> not only that, "threaded program" makes no sense here
878 2010-12-05 08:41:28 <xelister> btw, its still unsure whether m0m's version is somehow avoiding this bug, when run as 1 /process/ per core
879 2010-12-05 08:41:31 <Diablo-D3> queues are created in a thread and then only used by that thread
880 2010-12-05 08:41:42 <xelister> bugs usually do not make sense... expected things do not work
881 2010-12-05 08:41:43 <Diablo-D3> xelister: its not avoiding it
882 2010-12-05 08:41:46 <Diablo-D3> it just never tells you
883 2010-12-05 08:43:39 <xelister> btw, I can give bounty of say... 200 BTC, if you add some automation shit to miner (probably easy)
884 2010-12-05 08:43:51 <xelister> assuming first I will have miner working *really stable*
885 2010-12-05 08:43:55 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing to automate.
886 2010-12-05 08:45:47 <xelister> current git version (on testnet, with pure svn bitcoind) generates tons of
887 2010-12-05 08:45:58 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:45:04 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
888 2010-12-05 08:45:59 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:45:04 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
889 2010-12-05 08:46:00 <xelister> Block 1 found on Cypress (#2) at 9:45:04 AM
890 2010-12-05 08:46:02 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:45:07 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
891 2010-12-05 08:46:03 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:45:07 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
892 2010-12-05 08:46:09 <Diablo-D3> all #2?
893 2010-12-05 08:46:18 <xelister> yes. also, correct block is from #2 too.
894 2010-12-05 08:46:34 <xelister> 2nd correct block is also #2
895 2010-12-05 08:46:38 <Diablo-D3> that explains your problem then
896 2010-12-05 08:46:49 <Diablo-D3> try with sdk 2.2
897 2010-12-05 08:47:10 <xelister> with SDK 2.2 your miner eats 400% OF MY GOD DAMNED CPU! woot?
898 2010-12-05 08:47:23 <Diablo-D3> just test the fucking thing
899 2010-12-05 08:48:01 <xelister> all bad blocks, and all good blocks, are from #2. Btw, both GPUs are loaded (aticonfig monitor)
900 2010-12-05 08:48:11 <xelister> so far, with sdk 2.1
901 2010-12-05 08:48:21 <xelister> Block 5 found on Cypress (#1) at 9:47:43 AM
902 2010-12-05 08:48:39 <xelister> so all bad blocks are from #2, and good blocks happen on both CPU #2 and #1
903 2010-12-05 08:48:41 <xelister> gpu
904 2010-12-05 08:48:51 <Diablo-D3> as it should
905 2010-12-05 08:48:53 <Diablo-D3> now try 2.2
906 2010-12-05 08:49:32 <xelister> ok
907 2010-12-05 08:49:59 <xelister> huuuh.
908 2010-12-05 08:50:11 <xelister> Started at Dec 5, 2010 9:49:08 AM
909 2010-12-05 08:50:13 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:49:10 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
910 2010-12-05 08:50:14 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:49:11 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
911 2010-12-05 08:50:16 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:49:12 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
912 2010-12-05 08:50:17 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:49:13 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
913 2010-12-05 08:50:19 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 9:49:13 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
914 2010-12-05 08:50:20 <xelister> ERROR: Failed to queue kernel, error -52
915 2010-12-05 08:50:22 <xelister> ^-- on SDK 2.2
916 2010-12-05 08:50:41 <xelister> never seen that before, even when trying your miner with sdk 2.2
917 2010-12-05 08:50:50 <Diablo-D3> opencl went insane
918 2010-12-05 08:50:51 <Diablo-D3> fun
919 2010-12-05 08:51:16 <xelister> now it appears to run
920 2010-12-05 08:51:26 <xelister> it works like SHIT btw, 300M instead 530, 400% cpu use
921 2010-12-05 08:51:40 <Diablo-D3> does it bitch about CPU #2?
922 2010-12-05 08:51:41 <Diablo-D3> er
923 2010-12-05 08:51:42 <Diablo-D3> GPU
924 2010-12-05 08:52:08 <xelister> yes, it also reports only GPU#2. ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) ... ; No good blocks found so far
925 2010-12-05 08:52:37 <xelister> Block 1 found on Cypress (#1) at 9:51:29 AMat 9:51:29 AM, possible driver or hardware issue
926 2010-12-05 08:52:46 <xelister> (20 errors later) ERROR: Failed to queue kernel, error -52
927 2010-12-05 08:52:48 <Diablo-D3> hrrm.
928 2010-12-05 08:52:54 <Diablo-D3> are you still on that broken 10.9?
929 2010-12-05 08:53:11 <xelister> yea
930 2010-12-05 08:53:16 <xelister> allagedly broken
931 2010-12-05 08:53:22 <Diablo-D3> update to 10.11
932 2010-12-05 08:53:26 <xelister> :{
933 2010-12-05 08:53:39 <Diablo-D3> if you want it debugged, then you're going to do it.
934 2010-12-05 08:53:43 <xelister> but, why. m0m's. does. NOT. appear. to. have. this. problems
935 2010-12-05 08:53:52 <Diablo-D3> _appear_ being the key word
936 2010-12-05 08:53:56 <Diablo-D3> he never checks the results
937 2010-12-05 08:54:27 StrangeCharm has joined
938 2010-12-05 08:54:41 <xelister> ok I will tru stupid .11 :{
939 2010-12-05 08:55:02 <xelister> Diablo-D3: but why your miner goes to shit with sdk 2.2, eating all the CPU and now also throwing -52 error
940 2010-12-05 08:55:18 <Diablo-D3> its not my miner
941 2010-12-05 08:55:25 <Diablo-D3> any opencl app will go nuts under 2.2
942 2010-12-05 08:55:38 <Diablo-D3> they're busy waiting instead of blocking
943 2010-12-05 08:55:39 <xelister> m0m's doesnt eat all cpu like this
944 2010-12-05 08:55:44 <Diablo-D3> it does
945 2010-12-05 08:55:52 <Diablo-D3> 100% per m0 run
946 2010-12-05 08:56:11 <xelister> 0% cpu, I run 2 processes
947 2010-12-05 08:56:18 <Diablo-D3> on 2.2?
948 2010-12-05 08:56:43 <xelister> hmm wait wait, wrong
949 2010-12-05 08:56:48 <xelister> ok, indeed
950 2010-12-05 08:57:07 <xelister> although, m0m's x2 eats 300% cpu, and your miner eats like 400% +/-20
951 2010-12-05 08:57:15 <Diablo-D3> every blocked wait will consume 100% thread time on 2.2
952 2010-12-05 08:57:17 <xelister> anyway, sdk 2.1 is the way to go
953 2010-12-05 08:57:18 <Diablo-D3> with m0, thats 2
954 2010-12-05 08:57:22 <Diablo-D3> one per process
955 2010-12-05 08:57:29 <Diablo-D3> with mine, thats three per gpu, so thats 6
956 2010-12-05 08:57:45 <xelister> ok but you consume 400% (on 4 core cpu, 2 core gpu) not 200%. And m0m's consume ~300%
957 2010-12-05 08:57:56 <xelister> ah
958 2010-12-05 08:58:04 <Diablo-D3> you cant consume 600% on only 400% cpu time
959 2010-12-05 08:58:09 <Diablo-D3> if you had 6 cores, it would
960 2010-12-05 08:58:18 <Diablo-D3> and m0's consumes around 200%
961 2010-12-05 08:58:23 <Diablo-D3> your kernel is probably accounting wrong
962 2010-12-05 08:58:35 <Diablo-D3> and 2.2 may or may not have extra shit running as well
963 2010-12-05 08:58:41 <Diablo-D3> in other threads of it's own
964 2010-12-05 08:58:43 <Diablo-D3> so who knows
965 2010-12-05 09:00:51 <Diablo-D3> now with brocks problem
966 2010-12-05 09:01:00 <Diablo-D3> I probably need to change the error message
967 2010-12-05 09:01:02 <Diablo-D3> it shouldnt be one
968 2010-12-05 09:01:11 <Diablo-D3> it should actually be used to control when I output block found
969 2010-12-05 09:02:36 <xelister> also, please print hash of found block!
970 2010-12-05 09:02:48 <xelister> its important to then known which blocks finally made it to main chain etc
971 2010-12-05 09:02:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no.
972 2010-12-05 09:02:57 <Diablo-D3> no its not important.
973 2010-12-05 09:03:06 <Diablo-D3> because if bitcoin returns true, it DID make it into the chain
974 2010-12-05 09:03:07 <Diablo-D3> afiact
975 2010-12-05 09:03:14 <Diablo-D3> *afaict
976 2010-12-05 09:04:12 <Diablo-D3> ooh debian has 10.11 now
977 2010-12-05 09:04:50 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
978 2010-12-05 09:08:40 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: no
979 2010-12-05 09:09:01 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: no what
980 2010-12-05 09:09:09 <MT`AwAy> even after bitcoin returns true, block can be rejected by the other peers
981 2010-12-05 09:09:19 <Diablo-D3> yeah, only if that happens
982 2010-12-05 09:09:27 <Diablo-D3> but returning false isnt an error condition
983 2010-12-05 09:11:09 <Kiba> satoshi responded to wikileak controversy
984 2010-12-05 09:11:17 <AAA_awright> Link
985 2010-12-05 09:13:31 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1735.msg26999#msg26999
986 2010-12-05 09:18:21 <Kiba> AAA_awright: I think social rules dictate that we follow the leader's words.
987 2010-12-05 09:18:31 <Kiba> well, pretty much voluntary..but yeah...
988 2010-12-05 09:19:34 <doublec> following that logic no one should use bitcoins since all we can get is pocket change
989 2010-12-05 09:20:34 <Kiba> blah, Satoshi went to all this trouble creating a serect identity for his projecvt
990 2010-12-05 09:20:46 <TheAncientGoat> Secret identity?
991 2010-12-05 09:20:47 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rbb6416d / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
992 2010-12-05 09:20:47 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Bitcoin returning false from sendwork is not an error state, handle
993 2010-12-05 09:20:47 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: correctly; also, reset all currentWork.lastPull timers on sendwork - http://bit.ly/dPiilp
994 2010-12-05 09:20:48 <Kiba> shouldn't he get a little wish respect
995 2010-12-05 09:21:11 <AAA_awright> What, exactly, needs growing?
996 2010-12-05 09:21:21 <AAA_awright> Is there any code we're missing?
997 2010-12-05 09:21:22 <Kiba> TheAncientGoat: some people theorize that Satoshi is a serect identity
998 2010-12-05 09:21:36 <Kiba> AAA_awright: secrurity aduit, finding holes, etc?
999 2010-12-05 09:21:57 <AAA_awright> Features wise though... Wouldn't the proposal only help for auditing?
1000 2010-12-05 09:21:59 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rcfa9175 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Whoops accidently left unwanted debug code in - http://bit.ly/hIe3RQ
1001 2010-12-05 09:22:07 <AAA_awright> Enough eyes make all bugs shallow or something
1002 2010-12-05 09:22:29 <Kiba> AAA_awright: ummm...secruity threat from the US government
1003 2010-12-05 09:22:39 <Kiba> well
1004 2010-12-05 09:22:46 <AAA_awright> Wouldn't that be good?
1005 2010-12-05 09:22:49 <Kiba> Satoshi actually say something out of technical development
1006 2010-12-05 09:23:08 <Kiba> AAA_awright: he believed that it will destroy the economy and the network
1007 2010-12-05 09:23:40 <AAA_awright> I'm not following either argument and he seems to be the only one stating that so far (I think?)
1008 2010-12-05 09:24:08 <Kiba> Nope.
1009 2010-12-05 09:24:31 <theymos> Kiba: Satoshi is in the top 5 for hours spent online on the forum. He's Always Watching.
1010 2010-12-05 09:25:22 <Kiba> theymos: ummm...
1011 2010-12-05 09:25:43 <Kiba> not really
1012 2010-12-05 09:25:50 <Kiba> he's not the top 5
1013 2010-12-05 09:26:12 <Kiba> you spend more time on the forum than me
1014 2010-12-05 09:26:27 <Kiba> I am in second place
1015 2010-12-05 09:26:32 <theymos> Oh. He must have changed his online status to hidden. He was just below nelisky.
1016 2010-12-05 09:26:37 <Diablo-D3> lol
1017 2010-12-05 09:26:51 <Diablo-D3> so I wonder if xel's bug really is the driver
1018 2010-12-05 09:26:55 <Diablo-D3> no one else can replicate it
1019 2010-12-05 09:26:59 <Kiba> lol?
1020 2010-12-05 09:27:29 <Kiba> Apperantly, I am a loud person
1021 2010-12-05 09:30:55 <Kiba> as a bitcoiner...I am prone to worrying about the health of bitcoin
1022 2010-12-05 09:31:34 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1023 2010-12-05 09:33:38 altamic has joined
1024 2010-12-05 09:33:53 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 90000
1025 2010-12-05 09:33:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 90000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 days, 11 hours, 5 minutes, and 6 seconds
1026 2010-12-05 09:52:34 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r1cb884b / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
1027 2010-12-05 09:52:34 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Move currentWork.lastPull reset code to make sure it only resets on
1028 2010-12-05 09:52:34 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: sendwork execution - http://bit.ly/hJCS5j
1029 2010-12-05 09:52:40 genjix has joined
1030 2010-12-05 09:52:51 <genjix> point me to a small 64x64 bitcoin logo plz?
1031 2010-12-05 09:53:07 <genjix> where can I get satoshis ones?
1032 2010-12-05 09:53:12 <genjix> the ones everyone uses
1033 2010-12-05 09:53:24 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what happened to xel
1034 2010-12-05 09:55:52 <theymos> genjix: I have 80px and 48px, but no 64px.
1035 2010-12-05 09:56:02 <genjix> tthta fine :)
1036 2010-12-05 09:56:28 <genjix> *that's
1037 2010-12-05 09:58:46 <theymos> http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6341/bitcoin.png Want the 80px one?
1038 2010-12-05 09:59:08 <theymos> (These images are in the source.)
1039 2010-12-05 10:00:19 <genjix> thanks
1040 2010-12-05 10:00:36 <theymos> Here's 80px: http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6423/bitcoin80.png
1041 2010-12-05 10:00:40 <genjix> that'll do. I don't need anything fancy :p
1042 2010-12-05 10:00:52 <genjix> thanks theymos ;)
1043 2010-12-05 10:06:49 Hogofwar has joined
1044 2010-12-05 10:13:57 <Hogofwar> ,,bc,calc 90000
1045 2010-12-05 10:13:58 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
1046 2010-12-05 10:14:17 <Hogofwar> >_>
1047 2010-12-05 10:14:25 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 90000
1048 2010-12-05 10:14:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 90000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 days, 11 hours, 5 minutes, and 6 seconds
1049 2010-12-05 10:14:31 <Hogofwar> ohhh
1050 2010-12-05 10:14:53 <Hogofwar> damn 4 days of destoying my computer >_> just for 50
1051 2010-12-05 10:15:35 Yefloa__ has joined
1052 2010-12-05 10:15:44 <Yefloa__> ati drivers are pain in the butt to install.
1053 2010-12-05 10:16:01 <theymos> What are you using to get 90,0000 khps? That seems high.
1054 2010-12-05 10:17:09 <Xunie> I'm getting 90,000 hashes per sec on an old PC. :P
1055 2010-12-05 10:17:43 <Xunie> ;;bc,calc 90
1056 2010-12-05 10:17:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 90 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 12 years, 11 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 8 minutes, and 13 seconds
1057 2010-12-05 10:18:03 <Xunie> ;;bc,calc 10000
1058 2010-12-05 10:18:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes, and 58 seconds
1059 2010-12-05 10:18:07 <theymos> Still probably better than lottery odds.
1060 2010-12-05 10:18:17 <Hogofwar> yeah :P
1061 2010-12-05 10:18:24 <Hogofwar> using an ati hd 4800
1062 2010-12-05 10:18:42 <Xunie> I'm curious as to what my whole setup uses.
1063 2010-12-05 10:19:01 <Yefloa__> fucking ati drivers on fuckign linux
1064 2010-12-05 10:19:10 <Hogofwar> how the hella re you getting taht on an old pc (unless our definitions of old are different)
1065 2010-12-05 10:20:24 <Xunie> Hogofwar, "old" as in 6 years, Celeron, 256 MB, running headless Ubuntu Server and acting as a high-performance router --- that kinda old.
1066 2010-12-05 10:21:03 <Xunie> How much hashes per hour do you think my 2Mhz Atari 600XL can get? :P
1067 2010-12-05 10:21:27 <Hogofwar> oh ubuntu is faster than windows though :P
1068 2010-12-05 10:21:50 <theymos> He said hashes per second. 90 khash/s.
1069 2010-12-05 10:21:59 <Hogofwar> ohhh
1070 2010-12-05 10:22:11 <Hogofwar> DAmn
1071 2010-12-05 10:22:15 <Hogofwar> Stupid me.
1072 2010-12-05 10:23:01 <Xunie> If I was getting 90 000 khash/s, I would be getting 10000000 khash/s on my new PC.
1073 2010-12-05 10:23:42 <Hogofwar> :P
1074 2010-12-05 10:37:47 <Hogofwar> can m0's or diablo's miner join up in a pooled mining server?
1075 2010-12-05 10:37:51 <genjix> can I always guarantee that a bitcoin address will be 34 characters long (I think so yes, but I'm just maing absolute certain)
1076 2010-12-05 10:38:36 <Hogofwar> yes
1077 2010-12-05 10:38:41 <genjix> kk :)
1078 2010-12-05 10:38:49 <Hogofwar> oh wait
1079 2010-12-05 10:38:56 <Hogofwar> I think it can be variable...
1080 2010-12-05 10:39:02 <Hogofwar> I saw thats omewhere...
1081 2010-12-05 10:39:21 <Hogofwar> not sure though
1082 2010-12-05 10:39:48 <UukGoblin> Xunie, does it have enough memory to hold the intermediate sha variables? ;-)
1083 2010-12-05 10:40:35 <Xunie> IT has like 20 K or something. :+)
1084 2010-12-05 10:41:03 <Xunie> I should get the 40 K memory upgrade so I have 64 K.
1085 2010-12-05 10:41:20 <UukGoblin> 10x that should be enough for everyone
1086 2010-12-05 10:42:10 <genjix> I made it 60 just in case then
1087 2010-12-05 10:43:17 <theymos> genjix: Addresses can be 25-34 characters long. 33-character addresses are actually pretty common.
1088 2010-12-05 10:43:36 <genjix> ok 34 upper limit. thanks
1089 2010-12-05 10:44:06 <theymos> Testnet addresses can be 35 characters, if you ever might support those.
1090 2010-12-05 10:44:21 <nathan7> Xunie: 20+40=64?
1091 2010-12-05 10:45:53 <Xunie> nathan7, no, but I'm guessing the memory size is by the power of two.
1092 2010-12-05 10:45:59 <nathan7> =p
1093 2010-12-05 10:46:02 <Xunie> ¬_¬
1094 2010-12-05 10:46:09 <nathan7> 11:40:05 <@Xunie> IT has like 20 K or something. :+)
1095 2010-12-05 10:46:09 <nathan7> 11:40:33 <@Xunie> I should get the 40 K memory upgrade so I have 64 K.
1096 2010-12-05 10:46:49 <Xunie> Yeah yeah, rub it in...
1097 2010-12-05 10:52:07 <Xunie> Man, I'm getting aroused over reading the Cray CX1 manual.
1098 2010-12-05 10:52:42 <UukGoblin> ~20 + 40 often= 64
1099 2010-12-05 10:53:36 <Hogofwar> How do i make an "account" for the api
1100 2010-12-05 10:53:56 <theymos> Create a new address and assign it to a new account.
1101 2010-12-05 10:54:23 <Diablo-D3> so xel never came back?
1102 2010-12-05 10:54:23 <Diablo-D3> heh
1103 2010-12-05 10:54:43 <Diablo-D3> [05:37:17] <Hogofwar> can m0's or diablo's miner join up in a pooled mining server?
1104 2010-12-05 10:54:46 <Diablo-D3> how do they work?
1105 2010-12-05 10:54:58 <Hogofwar> huh?
1106 2010-12-05 10:55:07 <Diablo-D3> pooled mining servers
1107 2010-12-05 10:55:26 <Hogofwar> Would "getnewaddress" act as creating a new account?
1108 2010-12-05 10:55:38 <theymos> yes.
1109 2010-12-05 10:55:47 <Hogofwar> Don't pooled servers just use the combined khash to generate blocks faster
1110 2010-12-05 10:55:49 <theymos> If you give it an account parameter.
1111 2010-12-05 10:56:09 <Hogofwar> and then divide th bitcoins between every client connected
1112 2010-12-05 10:56:46 <Hogofwar> hm?
1113 2010-12-05 10:57:16 <theymos> Diablo-D3: The only pooled miner/server is puddinpop's, and I think it does something unique -- not getwork.
1114 2010-12-05 10:57:30 <Hogofwar> Yeah...
1115 2010-12-05 10:57:52 <Hogofwar> Would be decent to have a gpu powered remoteminer
1116 2010-12-05 10:57:54 <Diablo-D3> ahh, sounds stupid
1117 2010-12-05 10:58:02 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: so... basically every miner ever
1118 2010-12-05 10:58:15 <Hogofwar> What?
1119 2010-12-05 10:58:26 <Diablo-D3> run miner, connect to bitcoind on another box
1120 2010-12-05 10:58:29 <Diablo-D3> ding, remote miner
1121 2010-12-05 10:59:06 <theymos> No, it's cool because it allows multiple people to mine the same block, and it splits the earnings between them. Interestingly, it actually splits the share within the block that is being solved, as a bunch of outputs.
1122 2010-12-05 10:59:19 <Hogofwar> yes, that's what i mean
1123 2010-12-05 10:59:38 <Diablo-D3> theymos: but thats uselessly complex
1124 2010-12-05 10:59:41 <Diablo-D3> easier to mine different blocks
1125 2010-12-05 10:59:43 <Xunie> Does anyone know what exactly is being hashed?
1126 2010-12-05 10:59:52 <theymos> Xunie: The block.
1127 2010-12-05 10:59:56 <Diablo-D3> Xunie: the 80 byte header
1128 2010-12-05 11:00:08 <theymos> See http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block_hashing_algorithm
1129 2010-12-05 11:00:43 <theymos> Diablo-D3: It's nice for people without GPUs. You can get this every few days, so you feel like you're doing something: http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2861/smallgeneration.png
1130 2010-12-05 11:01:16 <Diablo-D3> but you're not doing anything important
1131 2010-12-05 11:01:22 <Xunie> Diablo-D3, so no matter what, bitcoin always hashes 80 bytes, right?
1132 2010-12-05 11:01:31 <Diablo-D3> Xunie: yes, the entire header
1133 2010-12-05 11:01:37 <Diablo-D3> Xunie: and then it hashes the output of that
1134 2010-12-05 11:01:44 <theymos> Isn't it 81 bytes? GetSerializeSize counts it as 81, at least.
1135 2010-12-05 11:01:58 <Diablo-D3> theymos: nope, probably miscount
1136 2010-12-05 11:02:03 <Diablo-D3> or its including a null dumbly
1137 2010-12-05 11:02:14 <Hogofwar> You are getting a constant stream of cash
1138 2010-12-05 11:02:26 <theymos> It definitely considers the block to be transactions+81.
1139 2010-12-05 11:02:52 xelister has joined
1140 2010-12-05 11:03:15 Yefloa__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1141 2010-12-05 11:03:37 <xelister> Diablo-D3: your miner suckc cocks even on 10.11 catalyst driver
1142 2010-12-05 11:03:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: quit saying "my miner"
1143 2010-12-05 11:03:53 <Diablo-D3> because its not a bug in my miner
1144 2010-12-05 11:04:02 <Diablo-D3> its clearly a bug in the stream sdk
1145 2010-12-05 11:04:06 <Diablo-D3> a very fucking huge one
1146 2010-12-05 11:04:09 <xelister> well we established the problem is not in the Catalyst Driver!
1147 2010-12-05 11:04:16 <xelister> I took time to install Catalyst 10.11, and
1148 2010-12-05 11:04:22 <xelister> 400% cpu usage even on SDK 2.1 :[
1149 2010-12-05 11:04:28 <Diablo-D3> fail
1150 2010-12-05 11:04:30 <xelister> and still generates bad blocks
1151 2010-12-05 11:04:31 <Hogofwar> 99%
1152 2010-12-05 11:04:33 <Diablo-D3> it has 0% cpu usage on 2.1
1153 2010-12-05 11:04:54 <xelister> /usr/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/
1154 2010-12-05 11:04:56 <xelister> Added Cypress (#1) (20 CU, 1x vector, local work size of 128)
1155 2010-12-05 11:04:57 <xelister> Added Cypress (#2) (20 CU, 1x vector, local work size of 128)
1156 2010-12-05 11:04:59 <xelister> Started at Dec 5, 2010 12:02:05 PM
1157 2010-12-05 11:05:00 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 12:02:09 PM, possible driver or hardware issue
1158 2010-12-05 11:05:29 <xelister> PID CPU COMMAND-LINE 1/2
1159 2010-12-05 11:05:30 <xelister> 4928 289% java -cp target/libs/*:target/DiabloMiner-0.0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar -Djava.
1160 2010-12-05 11:05:32 <xelister> 3824 29% /usr/bin/X :0 -br -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-LXLSNY/da
1161 2010-12-05 11:05:50 <xelister> and 260 M
1162 2010-12-05 11:05:58 <Diablo-D3> I suspect theres something VERY wrong with your machine
1163 2010-12-05 11:06:02 <xelister> so, with the 10.11 drivers that you recommneded, your miner fails epically
1164 2010-12-05 11:06:13 <Diablo-D3> I would like to rephrase my statement
1165 2010-12-05 11:06:21 <Diablo-D3> 10.11 is using inordinate amounts of cpu time
1166 2010-12-05 11:06:22 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck
1167 2010-12-05 11:06:24 <xelister> full cpu use, half Mhash speed, of which HALF is broken.. so like 25% of speed LOL...
1168 2010-12-05 11:06:26 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, you /always/ suspect there's something wrong with subject's machine
1169 2010-12-05 11:06:41 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: if I cant recreate it, it doesnt exist.
1170 2010-12-05 11:06:53 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck did they cock up with 10.11
1171 2010-12-05 11:06:57 <xelister> lets face it, your miner is shit on 5970 on popular ubuntu systems, even with 10.11 catalyst as you recommended to install
1172 2010-12-05 11:07:20 <Diablo-D3> xelister: s/my miner/stream sdk/
1173 2010-12-05 11:07:41 <xelister> well I use Stream SDK 2.1
1174 2010-12-05 11:07:44 <xelister> as you recommended
1175 2010-12-05 11:07:49 <Diablo-D3> and does it do it with 2.2?
1176 2010-12-05 11:07:54 <xelister> speciall version of Stream SDK... speciall version of Catalyst...
1177 2010-12-05 11:08:05 <xelister> what next, I should build a computer to your specs and install debian there?
1178 2010-12-05 11:08:14 <UukGoblin> :-D
1179 2010-12-05 11:08:18 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1180 2010-12-05 11:08:29 <Hogofwar> Diablo, how do i set a port for your miner
1181 2010-12-05 11:08:35 <Diablo-D3> xelister: seeing as no one can reproduce your bug, you have a serious problem
1182 2010-12-05 11:08:39 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: --help
1183 2010-12-05 11:09:03 <xelister> Diablo-D3: no one of the 1 other people that have your miner + 5970
1184 2010-12-05 11:09:16 <UukGoblin> I've ordered a 5970
1185 2010-12-05 11:09:18 <Diablo-D3> xelister: nope, brock did not see yout bug.
1186 2010-12-05 11:09:22 <UukGoblin> so should be able to reproduce soon :-]
1187 2010-12-05 11:09:25 <xelister> so I said.
1188 2010-12-05 11:09:35 <xelister> [12:08] <xelister> Diablo-D3: no one of the 1 other people that have your miner + 5970
1189 2010-12-05 11:09:58 <Diablo-D3> heh
1190 2010-12-05 11:10:01 <Diablo-D3> your english sucks
1191 2010-12-05 11:10:17 <xelister> it's pun
1192 2010-12-05 11:10:21 <Diablo-D3> xelister: btw, this weird cpu usage bug might not be thedriver
1193 2010-12-05 11:10:27 <Diablo-D3> I restarted my miner, it went away
1194 2010-12-05 11:10:47 <UukGoblin> xelister, one important thing: is it used up by java or by Xorg?
1195 2010-12-05 11:11:00 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: 2.1 doesnt drive X usage up
1196 2010-12-05 11:11:02 <Diablo-D3> 2.2 does
1197 2010-12-05 11:11:18 <Diablo-D3> but under 2.2, the opencl client consumes all cpu time
1198 2010-12-05 11:11:22 <Diablo-D3> no matter if its mine or m0's
1199 2010-12-05 11:11:28 <UukGoblin> I'm sure with low enough -f, it would
1200 2010-12-05 11:11:29 <Diablo-D3> in addition to driving up X to like 25%
1201 2010-12-05 11:11:41 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: low enough and you just arent mining
1202 2010-12-05 11:11:55 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, see, as I was saying, nvidia cuda has this seetting, that's probably not available in opencl...
1203 2010-12-05 11:12:03 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: it is.
1204 2010-12-05 11:12:10 <Diablo-D3> work group size
1205 2010-12-05 11:12:15 <UukGoblin> no, not that.
1206 2010-12-05 11:12:19 <bencoder> goddamn RHorning's walls of text :|
1207 2010-12-05 11:12:28 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: then what
1208 2010-12-05 11:13:46 <Hogofwar> say it goblin!
1209 2010-12-05 11:13:54 <UukGoblin> cudaSetDeviceFlags(cudaDeviceBlockingSync)
1210 2010-12-05 11:14:14 <Diablo-D3> thats not a device wide setting in opencl
1211 2010-12-05 11:14:19 <Diablo-D3> which would be insane if it was
1212 2010-12-05 11:15:00 <Diablo-D3> another reason to add to the list of why cuda sucks
1213 2010-12-05 11:15:32 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: everything but kernel execution enqueue can be blocking
1214 2010-12-05 11:15:36 <UukGoblin> they all suck
1215 2010-12-05 11:15:55 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, yet it does block exactly on kernel enqueue, doesn't it? :->
1216 2010-12-05 11:16:04 <UukGoblin> (on the wrong API versions)
1217 2010-12-05 11:16:10 <Diablo-D3> no, it doesnt.
1218 2010-12-05 11:16:24 <UukGoblin> well when I did tests with m0's, it did
1219 2010-12-05 11:16:25 <Diablo-D3> it never blocks on kernel enqueue
1220 2010-12-05 11:16:30 <Diablo-D3> no, m0 does stupid shit
1221 2010-12-05 11:16:42 <Diablo-D3> he hard blocks on buffer delete
1222 2010-12-05 11:16:58 <Diablo-D3> which is insane, he shouldnt be constantly creating and deleting buffers
1223 2010-12-05 11:17:02 <UukGoblin> where does it take all the CPU then?
1224 2010-12-05 11:17:14 <Diablo-D3> using sdk 2.2?
1225 2010-12-05 11:17:19 <Diablo-D3> blocking isnt done right
1226 2010-12-05 11:17:22 <UukGoblin> yeah
1227 2010-12-05 11:17:27 <Diablo-D3> its busy waiting inside the sdk's code
1228 2010-12-05 11:17:32 <Diablo-D3> instead of just outright blocking
1229 2010-12-05 11:17:44 <UukGoblin> well yeah
1230 2010-12-05 11:17:52 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 outright blocks
1231 2010-12-05 11:17:53 <UukGoblin> but to get into the sdk's code you need to call an API function
1232 2010-12-05 11:17:58 <Diablo-D3> yes
1233 2010-12-05 11:18:02 <UukGoblin> and which is that?
1234 2010-12-05 11:18:23 <Diablo-D3> for me, its enqueue read buffer
1235 2010-12-05 11:18:26 <Diablo-D3> which is set to blocking
1236 2010-12-05 11:19:33 <UukGoblin> well, so could be a blocking enqueue of a kernel just as well
1237 2010-12-05 11:19:42 <UukGoblin> is it possible to set all of enqueues to non-blocking then?
1238 2010-12-05 11:20:04 <UukGoblin> and smartly determine how long to sleep before trying to get the results?
1239 2010-12-05 11:20:05 <Diablo-D3> you cant block kernel enqueue either
1240 2010-12-05 11:20:10 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: nope
1241 2010-12-05 11:20:13 <Diablo-D3> you cant do that
1242 2010-12-05 11:20:38 <Diablo-D3> you CAN do a non-blocking read enqueue but you have to just block waiting for the event returned from that to clear
1243 2010-12-05 11:20:49 <Diablo-D3> and if you dont wait for the event, then you have no clue if the buffer was read
1244 2010-12-05 11:21:59 <UukGoblin> that's what I said
1245 2010-12-05 11:22:04 <UukGoblin> determine how long to sleep for
1246 2010-12-05 11:22:24 <Diablo-D3> as in, blocking wait
1247 2010-12-05 11:22:33 <UukGoblin> may be done even before enqueuing the read
1248 2010-12-05 11:22:38 <UukGoblin> (maybe may be)
1249 2010-12-05 11:22:42 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: er, no
1250 2010-12-05 11:22:55 <Diablo-D3> you cannot blocking wait on enqueue kernel
1251 2010-12-05 11:22:59 <UukGoblin> depends if the kernels get executed straight after enqueue
1252 2010-12-05 11:22:59 <Diablo-D3> that makes no sense to do so
1253 2010-12-05 11:23:02 <UukGoblin> no
1254 2010-12-05 11:23:06 <Diablo-D3> opencl has a queue
1255 2010-12-05 11:23:10 <Hogofwar> my gpu gebearation has gone down to 50m
1256 2010-12-05 11:23:12 <Diablo-D3> everything in the queue is executed in order
1257 2010-12-05 11:23:17 <Hogofwar> fuck this
1258 2010-12-05 11:23:22 <UukGoblin> you non-blocking enqueue kernel, it should get executed, then you sleep(), and then you read the buffer
1259 2010-12-05 11:23:36 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: but you cant read the buffer until you enqueued a buffer read
1260 2010-12-05 11:23:56 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, then s/read the buffer/enqueue a buffer read and read it/
1261 2010-12-05 11:24:07 <Diablo-D3> but why would you sleep/
1262 2010-12-05 11:24:09 <Diablo-D3> its a queue
1263 2010-12-05 11:24:15 <Diablo-D3> the read will be executed after the kernel is
1264 2010-12-05 11:24:23 <UukGoblin> to wait for the kernels to execute, so that API doesn't do its stupid busy wait
1265 2010-12-05 11:24:55 <Diablo-D3> except why would you fix a broken driver inside an application?
1266 2010-12-05 11:25:00 <Diablo-D3> the driver should be fixed instead.
1267 2010-12-05 11:25:35 <UukGoblin> maybe because it's easier ;-)
1268 2010-12-05 11:25:50 <Diablo-D3> you cant fix a bug like this inside the app.
1269 2010-12-05 11:26:06 <UukGoblin> you and your 'you cant's
1270 2010-12-05 11:26:22 <Diablo-D3> your way just papers over the problem in a way that wont make it go away
1271 2010-12-05 11:27:25 <UukGoblin> no, the only way for the problem to go away is for ati to move their ass and fix it
1272 2010-12-05 11:27:52 <UukGoblin> which may take a few years
1273 2010-12-05 11:28:21 <UukGoblin> considering they haven't released the sdk for 6xxx series radeons
1274 2010-12-05 11:28:22 <Diablo-D3> or just use 2.1
1275 2010-12-05 11:28:28 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: no
1276 2010-12-05 11:28:31 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 and 2.2 works on 68xx
1277 2010-12-05 11:28:41 <Diablo-D3> and 2.3 is coming out sometime this month if they're on schedule
1278 2010-12-05 11:28:50 <UukGoblin> well on the sdk page they don't mention 6xxx as supported
1279 2010-12-05 11:29:01 <Diablo-D3> 68xx is a 5xxx
1280 2010-12-05 11:29:08 <Diablo-D3> so they do
1281 2010-12-05 11:29:22 <Diablo-D3> 68xx literally is the "best of" of 5xxx
1282 2010-12-05 11:29:34 <Diablo-D3> some bits of 58xx here, some bits of 57xx there, etc
1283 2010-12-05 11:29:45 <UukGoblin> bleugh
1284 2010-12-05 11:29:50 <Diablo-D3> 69xx is a different arch
1285 2010-12-05 11:29:52 <Diablo-D3> and its not out yet
1286 2010-12-05 11:29:58 <UukGoblin> if they... rename a product... they should... egh.
1287 2010-12-05 11:30:05 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: its a different product.
1288 2010-12-05 11:30:14 <Diablo-D3> but its not a totally different product
1289 2010-12-05 11:30:18 <Diablo-D3> 69xx even isnt
1290 2010-12-05 11:30:21 <UukGoblin> so they should include it in the 'supported cards' list
1291 2010-12-05 11:30:24 <Diablo-D3> its very similar to 68xx
1292 2010-12-05 11:30:29 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: they cant
1293 2010-12-05 11:30:34 <Diablo-D3> they'd have to republish it
1294 2010-12-05 11:30:50 <Diablo-D3> its bad mojo to update docs after a product has shipped
1295 2010-12-05 11:31:02 <Diablo-D3> so, you fix it next time you publish it
1296 2010-12-05 11:31:06 <Diablo-D3> which is 2.3
1297 2010-12-05 11:31:23 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: btw
1298 2010-12-05 11:31:29 <Diablo-D3> the parts that matter are in the cat driver
1299 2010-12-05 11:31:31 <Diablo-D3> not in the sdk
1300 2010-12-05 11:31:32 <UukGoblin> bad mojo which is reducing their sales, meh.
1301 2010-12-05 11:31:39 redengin has joined
1302 2010-12-05 11:31:41 <Diablo-D3> so you need a new version of the cat driver to use 6xxx
1303 2010-12-05 11:31:44 <UukGoblin> I didn't even consider getting a 6xxx because of that
1304 2010-12-05 11:31:50 <UukGoblin> and I might have bought one if I knew that
1305 2010-12-05 11:32:01 <Diablo-D3> you didnt consider it because it has bitcoin performance that isnt as good as 5xxx
1306 2010-12-05 11:32:08 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: also, who cares what you bought
1307 2010-12-05 11:32:29 <Diablo-D3> opencl isnt ready for mass consumption
1308 2010-12-05 11:32:55 <UukGoblin> their fglrx driver also has issues with compositing
1309 2010-12-05 11:32:59 <UukGoblin> they generally suck.
1310 2010-12-05 11:33:06 <Diablo-D3> depends how you define issues
1311 2010-12-05 11:33:11 <Diablo-D3> if you use KDE, thats your fault
1312 2010-12-05 11:33:43 <UukGoblin> it's the resizing issue
1313 2010-12-05 11:34:00 <UukGoblin> people seem to push the bug around between WM, Xorg driver and Xorg
1314 2010-12-05 11:34:03 <Diablo-D3> I use compositing in xfce and have zero issues.
1315 2010-12-05 11:38:03 <genjix> any php people see anything wrong in these few lines? http://pastebin.com/XnZdWtUz
1316 2010-12-05 11:39:04 <UukGoblin> genjix, there's 9 lines of html code there and 1 line of php
1317 2010-12-05 11:39:21 <UukGoblin> oh, sorry, somehow read 'few' as 'three'...
1318 2010-12-05 11:39:21 <genjix> *clap clap*
1319 2010-12-05 11:39:30 <genjix> :p
1320 2010-12-05 11:39:40 <genjix> happens to us all
1321 2010-12-05 11:40:59 <UukGoblin> genjix, you might wanna use id="address" in addition to name=
1322 2010-12-05 11:41:17 <UukGoblin> not sure if that's the issue though
1323 2010-12-05 11:41:28 <Diablo-D3> its not
1324 2010-12-05 11:41:35 <Diablo-D3> genjix: that code doesnt look right to me
1325 2010-12-05 11:41:45 <genjix> i just get blank output in second
1326 2010-12-05 11:42:05 <genjix> i fucking hate web programming it sucks balls!!usdbdsjbdsjhsdjh4783tfbk][lfsds
1327 2010-12-05 11:42:10 <genjix> frustration
1328 2010-12-05 11:42:12 <UukGoblin> I wouldn't use enctype either
1329 2010-12-05 11:43:25 <genjix> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_form_enctype.asp
1330 2010-12-05 11:43:29 <genjix> that says it's needed
1331 2010-12-05 11:43:38 <genjix> multipart/form-dataNo characters are encoded. This value is required when you are using forms that have a file upload control
1332 2010-12-05 11:43:58 <UukGoblin> always worked for me ;-)
1333 2010-12-05 11:44:16 <UukGoblin> oh, file upload, hrm, dunno actually
1334 2010-12-05 11:44:20 <UukGoblin> didn't use that much
1335 2010-12-05 11:44:56 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r32aeef8 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Remove useless extra line - http://bit.ly/hcCkcM
1336 2010-12-05 11:45:16 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: he needs it when uploading a file depending on how hes doing it
1337 2010-12-05 11:45:40 <Hogofwar> Look at the example at w3schools.com
1338 2010-12-05 11:45:45 <Hogofwar> It has a file upload exqample
1339 2010-12-05 11:45:50 <Diablo-D3> w3schools.com sucks, btw
1340 2010-12-05 11:46:05 <Hogofwar> Well, i have low standards
1341 2010-12-05 11:46:15 <genjix> ok i got it working :p
1342 2010-12-05 11:52:36 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
1343 2010-12-05 11:52:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 95717 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1050 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11290.13217248
1344 2010-12-05 11:52:52 <anarchyx> holy :P
1345 2010-12-05 11:53:03 mtgox has joined
1346 2010-12-05 11:59:20 <Diablo-D3> xelister: are you absolutely sure you're on the newest git?
1347 2010-12-05 12:09:12 <genjix> are there some quick'n'dirty tests I can do in php to assess the validity of bitcoin addresses?
1348 2010-12-05 12:10:24 <OneFixt> where does the "extra nonce" part of the block show up?
1349 2010-12-05 12:10:35 <OneFixt> could I see it on blockexplorer for example?
1350 2010-12-05 12:10:53 <UukGoblin> genjix, I'd recommend doing them in javascript first
1351 2010-12-05 12:11:08 <genjix> ok but which tests?
1352 2010-12-05 12:11:10 <UukGoblin> OneFixt, no, extraNonce is something internal to getwork
1353 2010-12-05 12:11:15 <UukGoblin> genjix, dunno ;-)
1354 2010-12-05 12:11:55 <OneFixt> UukGoblin: so it changes mrkl_root?
1355 2010-12-05 12:12:04 <UukGoblin> OneFixt, I think so
1356 2010-12-05 12:12:27 <Diablo-D3> its part of the merkle root
1357 2010-12-05 12:12:28 <OneFixt> UukGoblin: in blockexplorer, i see "tx:" and then a bunch of transactions inside the raw block
1358 2010-12-05 12:12:36 <Diablo-D3> and only m0's getwork uses extra nonce
1359 2010-12-05 12:12:40 <Diablo-D3> satoshi's doesnt
1360 2010-12-05 12:12:49 <OneFixt> accorging to bitcoin site, "the extraNonce portion of the generation transaction is incremented, which changes the Merkle root."
1361 2010-12-05 12:12:57 <OneFixt> so I assumed it would be somewhere within the transaction block
1362 2010-12-05 12:13:04 <OneFixt> according*
1363 2010-12-05 12:13:09 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: yes. the merkle root is.
1364 2010-12-05 12:13:52 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, does your miner work with satoshi's getwork yet, btw?
1365 2010-12-05 12:14:23 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: git maintains a revision history, you know
1366 2010-12-05 12:14:45 <UukGoblin> yes, I know how git works
1367 2010-12-05 12:15:00 <OneFixt> I thought extranonce was necessary - according to http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block_hashing_algorithm
1368 2010-12-05 12:15:08 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: its part of the merkle root.
1369 2010-12-05 12:15:14 <OneFixt> did Satoshi's new getwork get rid of it entirely?
1370 2010-12-05 12:15:25 <Diablo-D3> yes.
1371 2010-12-05 12:15:31 <Diablo-D3> miners have no use for it
1372 2010-12-05 12:15:59 <OneFixt> so would the bitcoind instance keep track of everything then, in order to make sure that no threads do similar work?
1373 2010-12-05 12:16:56 <Diablo-D3> it does anyhow
1374 2010-12-05 12:17:23 <Diablo-D3> all getwork does is increment the merkle root every time its called
1375 2010-12-05 12:17:52 <OneFixt> but wouldn't that mean that it still has some sort of "extranonce" internally?
1376 2010-12-05 12:17:57 <OneFixt> just without exposing it to the miner?
1377 2010-12-05 12:18:04 <Diablo-D3> yes, its _part of the merkle root_
1378 2010-12-05 12:18:08 <OneFixt> ah ok
1379 2010-12-05 12:18:15 <Diablo-D3> it maintains the entire header
1380 2010-12-05 12:19:10 <OneFixt> and after a block is generated, is there some way that i can dig up what that extranonce was?
1381 2010-12-05 12:19:24 <Diablo-D3> yes, look at the merkle root
1382 2010-12-05 12:20:03 <OneFixt> but the root is the hash of all transactions, i can't "unhash" it to find the nonce
1383 2010-12-05 12:21:01 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: the nonce isnt quite what you think it is
1384 2010-12-05 12:21:07 <Diablo-D3> its just a number that increments
1385 2010-12-05 12:21:10 <Diablo-D3> it has zero value
1386 2010-12-05 12:21:19 <OneFixt> yes, i assumed it was a counter
1387 2010-12-05 12:21:33 <Diablo-D3> you cant compare them
1388 2010-12-05 12:21:40 <Diablo-D3> and they repeat frequently
1389 2010-12-05 12:22:08 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1390 2010-12-05 12:22:31 <OneFixt> i'm looking at a raw block in blockexplorer - from reading the bitcoin docs i assumed that the extranonce should be part of the "tx" block, and that the "mrkl_root" is a hash of that "tx" block
1391 2010-12-05 12:22:42 <Diablo-D3> nope
1392 2010-12-05 12:22:49 <Diablo-D3> satoshi's may not even be using it that way
1393 2010-12-05 12:22:59 <OneFixt> so the merkle root is not a hash of that "tx" block?
1394 2010-12-05 12:23:05 <Diablo-D3> but it has zero relevant value
1395 2010-12-05 12:23:07 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: it is
1396 2010-12-05 12:23:09 <Diablo-D3> kind of
1397 2010-12-05 12:23:14 * OneFixt scratches head
1398 2010-12-05 12:23:14 <Diablo-D3> I forget how its generated
1399 2010-12-05 12:23:22 <Diablo-D3> but extra nonce has zero value
1400 2010-12-05 12:23:23 <Diablo-D3> none
1401 2010-12-05 12:23:25 <Diablo-D3> zip
1402 2010-12-05 12:23:28 <OneFixt> depends on what you mean by value
1403 2010-12-05 12:23:33 * Hogofwar dry humps while crying
1404 2010-12-05 12:23:51 <Hogofwar> Too soon?
1405 2010-12-05 12:23:55 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: well, it repeats every x getwork calls
1406 2010-12-05 12:24:26 <OneFixt> i assume that would mean that it resets when any other part of the header changes
1407 2010-12-05 12:24:30 <Diablo-D3> no
1408 2010-12-05 12:24:36 <Diablo-D3> it resets when it hits 0 again
1409 2010-12-05 12:24:48 <Diablo-D3> its quite literally a very dumb counter
1410 2010-12-05 12:24:51 <OneFixt> that would be the nonce
1411 2010-12-05 12:24:59 <OneFixt> once the nonce overflows, extranonce is incremented
1412 2010-12-05 12:25:01 <Diablo-D3> it just makes sure every miner is mining on different merkle roots
1413 2010-12-05 12:25:12 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: not in m0's stuff
1414 2010-12-05 12:25:36 <Diablo-D3> go use his patch, and do ./bitcoid getwork a shitload of times
1415 2010-12-05 12:25:45 <Diablo-D3> it increments one every time
1416 2010-12-05 12:25:55 <OneFixt> yeah, i did in fact do that
1417 2010-12-05 12:26:17 <Diablo-D3> btw, if extra nonce is in the merkle root, and thats a hash
1418 2010-12-05 12:26:17 <OneFixt> but i was curious as to how the value of the mysterious "extranonce" is reflected in a generated block
1419 2010-12-05 12:26:26 <Diablo-D3> obviously you cant contain it in the header
1420 2010-12-05 12:26:29 <OneFixt> and how it is used in verifying the validity of that block
1421 2010-12-05 12:26:38 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: its not
1422 2010-12-05 12:26:43 <Diablo-D3> it has zero effect on the validity of the block
1423 2010-12-05 12:26:59 <Diablo-D3> the ONLY thing that matters to the miner is the full 80 byte hash
1424 2010-12-05 12:27:21 <Diablo-D3> er
1425 2010-12-05 12:27:25 <Diablo-D3> 80 byte header
1426 2010-12-05 12:27:38 <Diablo-D3> it technically doesnt even need state/midstate
1427 2010-12-05 12:27:50 <OneFixt> hmm
1428 2010-12-05 12:28:08 <Diablo-D3> state/midstate is just provided to shortcut doing the first 64 rounds of the first sha256
1429 2010-12-05 12:28:43 <Diablo-D3> the miner itself increments the 20th int internally repeatedly
1430 2010-12-05 12:28:54 <Diablo-D3> (as in, the last 4 bytes)
1431 2010-12-05 12:29:09 <Diablo-D3> and then returns the new header
1432 2010-12-05 12:29:16 <Diablo-D3> when it finds a match, anyways
1433 2010-12-05 12:29:22 <OneFixt> those last 4 bytes = nonce in the header?
1434 2010-12-05 12:30:02 <Diablo-D3> not sure what the field is called
1435 2010-12-05 12:30:11 <OneFixt> i'm looking at http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block_hashing_algorithm
1436 2010-12-05 12:30:50 Xunie has joined
1437 2010-12-05 12:30:50 Xunie has quit (Changing host)
1438 2010-12-05 12:30:50 Xunie has joined
1439 2010-12-05 12:32:05 <OneFixt> what's confusing me is the following:
1440 2010-12-05 12:32:20 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: nonce seems to be the last int
1441 2010-12-05 12:32:25 <Diablo-D3> the header is 20 ints long
1442 2010-12-05 12:32:35 <OneFixt> the merkle root is supposed to be a hash of all the transactions in the block which is being generated, correct?
1443 2010-12-05 12:33:41 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: I suspect extra nonce in m0's impl acts as a salt
1444 2010-12-05 12:34:37 <Diablo-D3> but who knows
1445 2010-12-05 12:34:38 <Diablo-D3> ask art
1446 2010-12-05 12:34:45 <Diablo-D3> he knows this shit
1447 2010-12-05 12:34:56 <OneFixt> true, he'd probably know
1448 2010-12-05 12:35:05 <OneFixt> so final question -
1449 2010-12-05 12:35:35 <OneFixt> if I want to verify a block, what do i do with the merkle root of that block?
1450 2010-12-05 12:36:40 <Diablo-D3> I'd assume do whatever bitcoin does
1451 2010-12-05 12:36:42 <OneFixt> i assume that first i'd verify that the hash of the block matches the header
1452 2010-12-05 12:37:15 <OneFixt> and then that all the transactions within it, when hashed, match the merkle root
1453 2010-12-05 12:37:20 * Hogofwar thinks bitcoins need more website ineteraction features
1454 2010-12-05 12:37:25 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: hrrrm
1455 2010-12-05 12:37:28 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: that doesnt sound right
1456 2010-12-05 12:37:33 <Diablo-D3> ask art
1457 2010-12-05 12:37:34 <OneFixt> but that means that some magical extranonce must be included in those transactoins, or i can't check the root
1458 2010-12-05 12:37:38 <OneFixt> alright, i'll ask him next time
1459 2010-12-05 12:37:55 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: I suspect a merkle root doesnt work like a normal hash
1460 2010-12-05 12:38:39 <OneFixt> alright, thanks for your help
1461 2010-12-05 12:38:44 <OneFixt> heading off to sleep for now
1462 2010-12-05 12:39:01 <Diablo-D3> you know whats screwed up
1463 2010-12-05 12:39:03 <Diablo-D3> I wrote a miner
1464 2010-12-05 12:39:07 <OneFixt> haha
1465 2010-12-05 12:39:07 <Diablo-D3> and have no clue how this shit works
1466 2010-12-05 12:39:23 <OneFixt> i think that goes for most of us to one degree or another
1467 2010-12-05 12:42:29 TheSheep_ has joined
1468 2010-12-05 12:48:29 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 133000
1469 2010-12-05 12:48:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 133000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 0 hours, 27 minutes, and 49 seconds
1470 2010-12-05 12:49:02 <doublec> sadly the pool appears to be maxed out
1471 2010-12-05 12:57:25 <UukGoblin> is the pool split over network or is there a central server?
1472 2010-12-05 12:59:50 <TheSheep_> lol, running on my media pc at a rate of 500-600 khps...takes about 5-6 years to generate a block :D
1473 2010-12-05 13:01:24 <doublec> UukGoblin, there's a central server
1474 2010-12-05 13:02:15 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 600
1475 2010-12-05 13:02:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 43 weeks, 3 days, 6 hours, 46 minutes, and 14 seconds
1476 2010-12-05 13:02:24 <doublec> TheSheep_, close :)
1477 2010-12-05 13:02:55 <TheSheep_> oh, now that's good news :D
1478 2010-12-05 13:04:29 <UukGoblin> don't worry, difficulty will go up before then
1479 2010-12-05 13:06:25 <Diablo-D3> heh
1480 2010-12-05 13:07:12 <TheSheep_> yeah, gotta love my Athlon 2000+ :D "I'm making millions, mom!"
1481 2010-12-05 13:10:15 <Hogofwar> ;;bc,calc 1
1482 2010-12-05 13:10:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1100 years, 9 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes, and 43 seconds
1483 2010-12-05 13:10:22 <Hogofwar> >_>
1484 2010-12-05 13:10:32 <Hogofwar> there goes the nes
1485 2010-12-05 13:11:01 <Hogofwar> ;;bc,calc 999999999999999999999999999999999
1486 2010-12-05 13:11:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 999999999999999999999999999999999 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 0 seconds
1487 2010-12-05 13:11:08 <Hogofwar> Yay!
1488 2010-12-05 13:11:20 <Hogofwar> 50 BTC every 0 seconds!
1489 2010-12-05 13:11:37 <Hogofwar> ;;bc,calc 5745485347646
1490 2010-12-05 13:11:37 <gribble> Error: '0.00603875605705' is not a valid integer.
1491 2010-12-05 13:11:44 <Hogofwar> wtf
1492 2010-12-05 13:12:02 <Hogofwar> ;;bc,calc 9999999999
1493 2010-12-05 13:12:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 9999999999 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 seconds
1494 2010-12-05 13:12:10 <Hogofwar> if only...
1495 2010-12-05 13:13:42 <Diablo-D3> so
1496 2010-12-05 13:13:47 <Diablo-D3> I have, yet again, confirmed my client works
1497 2010-12-05 13:14:04 <Diablo-D3> 12 blocks found on the testnet, all of them show up in the UI client
1498 2010-12-05 13:14:50 <Diablo-D3> and 50 H==0s in 40 minutes to boot
1499 2010-12-05 13:23:20 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: you're using the newest version of my client, right?
1500 2010-12-05 13:23:54 <Hogofwar> Yes?
1501 2010-12-05 13:24:09 <Hogofwar> Why?
1502 2010-12-05 13:24:11 <Hogofwar> @
1503 2010-12-05 13:24:30 <Diablo-D3> are you absolutely sure you are?
1504 2010-12-05 13:24:54 <Hogofwar> I sthsi to do with the probelme posted on the forums?
1505 2010-12-05 13:25:30 <Diablo-D3> yes
1506 2010-12-05 13:25:35 <Diablo-D3> you should not be having that error
1507 2010-12-05 13:25:55 <Hogofwar> Well, can i ise --host to set what port i use?
1508 2010-12-05 13:25:58 acous has joined
1509 2010-12-05 13:25:59 <Hogofwar> *use
1510 2010-12-05 13:26:02 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: --help
1511 2010-12-05 13:26:05 <Hogofwar> I am
1512 2010-12-05 13:26:11 <Diablo-D3> it lists all the options
1513 2010-12-05 13:26:14 <Hogofwar> nothing to do with ports other than maybe --host
1514 2010-12-05 13:26:38 <Diablo-D3> er, rutrow
1515 2010-12-05 13:26:41 <Diablo-D3> an option dissapeared
1516 2010-12-05 13:26:46 <Hogofwar> huh?
1517 2010-12-05 13:27:06 <Diablo-D3> options.addOption("p", "port", true," bitcoin host port");
1518 2010-12-05 13:27:10 <Diablo-D3> but its not showing up in --help
1519 2010-12-05 13:27:21 <Hogofwar> -p is already used
1520 2010-12-05 13:27:27 <Diablo-D3> yup it is
1521 2010-12-05 13:27:29 <Diablo-D3> and thats why
1522 2010-12-05 13:27:53 <Hogofwar> cnai just use --port?
1523 2010-12-05 13:27:56 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1524 2010-12-05 13:27:58 <Diablo-D3> possibly
1525 2010-12-05 13:28:39 <Hogofwar> seems to of worked
1526 2010-12-05 13:28:42 <Hogofwar> Yeah it is working
1527 2010-12-05 13:28:44 TheSheep_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1528 2010-12-05 13:28:56 <Hogofwar> Now another error
1529 2010-12-05 13:29:02 <Hogofwar> Failed to queue kernel
1530 2010-12-05 13:29:10 <Diablo-D3> yeah, somethings wrong with sdk 2.2
1531 2010-12-05 13:29:10 <Hogofwar> -52
1532 2010-12-05 13:29:18 <Hogofwar> oh well back to m0's
1533 2010-12-05 13:30:47 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: keep trying to run it
1534 2010-12-05 13:31:01 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * re3f9534 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Fixed missing --port option in --help - http://bit.ly/dQplpR
1535 2010-12-05 13:32:30 <UukGoblin> hm, there's a frog in the middle of biddingpond's QR code ;-]
1536 2010-12-05 13:32:55 <Hogofwar> slows down my computer considerably aswell
1537 2010-12-05 13:33:18 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: when was the last time you downloaded the zip?
1538 2010-12-05 13:33:25 <Hogofwar> Yestersay
1539 2010-12-05 13:33:32 <Hogofwar> Same error again
1540 2010-12-05 13:33:47 <Hogofwar> *yesrtday
1541 2010-12-05 13:33:48 <Diablo-D3> thats out of date.
1542 2010-12-05 13:33:53 <Hogofwar> **yesterday
1543 2010-12-05 13:33:56 <Hogofwar> >_>
1544 2010-12-05 13:33:59 <Diablo-D3> yesterday
1545 2010-12-05 13:35:09 <Hogofwar> got the new one
1546 2010-12-05 13:35:15 <Hogofwar> running...
1547 2010-12-05 13:35:27 <Hogofwar> 90000 khash/sec
1548 2010-12-05 13:35:35 <Hogofwar> ~
1549 2010-12-05 13:35:41 <Hogofwar> no errors so far
1550 2010-12-05 13:36:14 <Hogofwar> it seems to be going faster than mo's but with a cost to my desktop performance
1551 2010-12-05 13:36:27 <Diablo-D3> yeah, thats the side effect of having a more efficient miner
1552 2010-12-05 13:36:31 <Diablo-D3> try adding on -f 120
1553 2010-12-05 13:36:36 <Hogofwar> Same error again
1554 2010-12-05 13:36:39 <Hogofwar> Crashed
1555 2010-12-05 13:36:49 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1556 2010-12-05 13:36:53 <Diablo-D3> you're on 10.11?
1557 2010-12-05 13:37:08 <Hogofwar> well got sdk yesterday so i guess
1558 2010-12-05 13:37:12 <Hogofwar> added -f 120
1559 2010-12-05 13:37:23 <Hogofwar> whatd oe sthat do?
1560 2010-12-05 13:37:26 <Hogofwar> *does that
1561 2010-12-05 13:37:31 <Diablo-D3> makes it try to use less time per kernel run
1562 2010-12-05 13:37:33 <Diablo-D3> default is 60
1563 2010-12-05 13:37:59 vfo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1564 2010-12-05 13:38:29 <Hogofwar> Crash again
1565 2010-12-05 13:38:33 <Hogofwar> same one
1566 2010-12-05 13:38:50 <Diablo-D3> hrrrm.
1567 2010-12-05 13:38:57 <Diablo-D3> that shouldnt do that
1568 2010-12-05 13:39:04 <Diablo-D3> m0 is probably doing it too
1569 2010-12-05 13:39:09 <Diablo-D3> but he doesnt catch the error
1570 2010-12-05 13:39:23 <Hogofwar> Well, m0's seems to run fine
1571 2010-12-05 13:39:28 <Diablo-D3> seems, yes
1572 2010-12-05 13:39:30 <Diablo-D3> what video card?
1573 2010-12-05 13:39:40 <Hogofwar> ati radeon hd 4800
1574 2010-12-05 13:39:57 <Hogofwar> m0's does giev me the genration money on teh testnet
1575 2010-12-05 13:40:08 <Hogofwar> Damn my spelling
1576 2010-12-05 13:45:45 <Diablo-D3> hrrrrrrm
1577 2010-12-05 13:45:49 <Diablo-D3> ahaaaaa
1578 2010-12-05 13:45:52 <Diablo-D3> I replicated the error
1579 2010-12-05 13:45:55 <Diablo-D3> its doing it for me too
1580 2010-12-05 13:45:57 <Diablo-D3> but only on 2.2
1581 2010-12-05 13:45:58 <Diablo-D3> so wtf
1582 2010-12-05 13:46:05 <Hogofwar> >_<
1583 2010-12-05 13:46:50 Hogofwar has quit ()
1584 2010-12-05 13:54:13 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 57825458
1585 2010-12-05 13:54:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 57825458 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 10 minutes and 0 seconds
1586 2010-12-05 13:55:02 * UukGoblin nods
1587 2010-12-05 13:55:06 <UukGoblin> calculations are correct.
1588 2010-12-05 13:56:27 <UukGoblin> so in current state the network is somewhere at 80Ghash/sec
1589 2010-12-05 13:57:21 <UukGoblin> that's around 124 radeons 5970
1590 2010-12-05 14:01:55 <doublec> interesting
1591 2010-12-05 14:04:06 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 40000
1592 2010-12-05 14:04:06 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes, and 29 seconds
1593 2010-12-05 14:04:57 <lolcat> One radeon 5970 makes 50 bitcoins in one and a haf week?
1594 2010-12-05 14:07:28 <lolcat> I get 1476 khash/s
1595 2010-12-05 14:08:24 <doublec> pretty sure 1 radeon 5970 does better than that
1596 2010-12-05 14:08:28 <lolcat> ;;bc,calc 1400
1597 2010-12-05 14:08:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1400 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 40 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes, and 40 seconds
1598 2010-12-05 14:08:31 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 500000
1599 2010-12-05 14:08:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 19 hours, 16 minutes, and 31 seconds
1600 2010-12-05 14:10:36 <genjix> lmao bitcoin porn sites
1601 2010-12-05 14:11:53 <lolcat> bitcoin porn sites?
1602 2010-12-05 14:12:15 <genjix> yeah but the girls are ugly :p
1603 2010-12-05 14:12:26 <genjix> http://www.bitcoinxxx.com/
1604 2010-12-05 14:12:30 <genjix> http://www.talksugar.com/
1605 2010-12-05 14:12:33 <genjix> http://www.prettyjustine.com/
1606 2010-12-05 14:13:07 <lolcat> lol
1607 2010-12-05 14:13:14 <lolcat> That last one looks male
1608 2010-12-05 14:18:45 <genjix> where can I download this? http://www.nostate.com/3962/bitcoin-php-a-php-library-for-bitcoin/
1609 2010-12-05 14:20:39 <lolcat> genjix: http://code.gogulski.com/bitcoin-php/
1610 2010-12-05 14:20:49 <lolcat> genjix: What are you planning to do?
1611 2010-12-05 14:21:06 <genjix> i dont see the download there
1612 2010-12-05 14:21:34 <genjix> i want to make a payment processor for my site :p
1613 2010-12-05 14:23:41 <lolcat> genjix: Press code, copy paste would work
1614 2010-12-05 14:24:41 <genjix> lolcat: except it has line numbers
1615 2010-12-05 14:24:50 <genjix> im sure they provide a package...
1616 2010-12-05 14:25:00 <lolcat> probably, but I cant find it
1617 2010-12-05 14:25:33 <lolcat> ;;bc,calc 1600
1618 2010-12-05 14:25:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1600 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 35 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes, and 20 seconds
1619 2010-12-05 14:30:28 StrangeCharm has joined
1620 2010-12-05 14:34:00 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1621 2010-12-05 14:34:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 95745 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1022 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11348.96353451
1622 2010-12-05 14:34:36 <lolcat> Is it true that one person is mining almost all the bitcoins?
1623 2010-12-05 14:35:25 Hogofwar has joined
1624 2010-12-05 14:35:37 <Hogofwar> So i can't send bitcoisn to anotehr mof my addresses?
1625 2010-12-05 14:35:57 <lolcat> Hogofwar: Press Send Coins?
1626 2010-12-05 14:36:18 <Hogofwar> i have it says under transactions payemnt to yourself but it won't confirm
1627 2010-12-05 14:36:27 <Hogofwar> Still have the bitcoisn though
1628 2010-12-05 14:36:54 <lolcat> Is the other adress done downloading all the blocks?
1629 2010-12-05 14:37:06 <Hogofwar> it's on teh same bitcoin program
1630 2010-12-05 14:37:07 oldgregg has joined
1631 2010-12-05 14:37:11 <Hogofwar> just another address
1632 2010-12-05 14:39:46 <Hogofwar> ugh
1633 2010-12-05 14:41:18 <TheAncientGoat> I've wasted far too many bitcoins on dragons tale :|
1634 2010-12-05 14:43:13 <lolcat> Weird
1635 2010-12-05 14:46:07 <lolcat> Does bitcoin store ip-adresses in its chain?
1636 2010-12-05 14:46:11 <lolcat> Could it?
1637 2010-12-05 14:46:46 <[Noodles]> in the chain? i really doubt that
1638 2010-12-05 14:50:30 <Hogofwar> http://pastebin.com/R426zssg
1639 2010-12-05 14:50:38 <Hogofwar> I'm having a problem on line 7
1640 2010-12-05 14:50:53 <Hogofwar> as explained by the comment on line 7
1641 2010-12-05 14:52:41 <lolcat> A modern computer, with an i7 and a fair gpu, would it be able to generate bitcoins daily?
1642 2010-12-05 14:53:43 <[Noodles]> don't mind the i7, only thing that really cares is the GPU
1643 2010-12-05 14:54:04 <[Noodles]> be suire to get an ATI (if you want to min coins) and leave nvidia alone
1644 2010-12-05 14:54:14 <[Noodles]> *mine
1645 2010-12-05 14:55:33 <[Noodles]> save some money on the CPU and get a bigger card instead, 5970 would be best choice
1646 2010-12-05 14:55:52 <Diablo-D3> "I so hoped they would go with the suggestion from the guy over at LinuxHaters blog: Ubuntu 11 - "Naughty Nutgoblin"."
1647 2010-12-05 14:55:55 <Diablo-D3> bwhahaha
1648 2010-12-05 14:55:58 <Hogofwar> WOuld a scientific GPU work?
1649 2010-12-05 14:56:07 <[Noodles]> that might give you 50coins daily for the next week or so
1650 2010-12-05 14:56:15 <[Noodles]> scientific?
1651 2010-12-05 14:56:20 <Hogofwar> Yeah, theya ctually exist
1652 2010-12-05 14:56:21 <Diablo-D3> [Noodles]: its the most powerful choice
1653 2010-12-05 14:56:26 <Hogofwar> for computing
1654 2010-12-05 14:56:32 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: they're not "scientific"
1655 2010-12-05 14:56:35 <Diablo-D3> they're just gpgpus
1656 2010-12-05 14:56:44 <Hogofwar> Probably been ages since i've seen one
1657 2010-12-05 14:56:50 <lolcat> HD 5970 ain't cheap
1658 2010-12-05 14:56:54 <[Noodles]> true
1659 2010-12-05 14:57:05 <lolcat> A 5850 how would it compare?
1660 2010-12-05 14:57:13 <Hogofwar> 50 btc a year
1661 2010-12-05 14:57:20 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: its like 5850, 5970, 5770 in cost/efficiency
1662 2010-12-05 14:57:41 <Diablo-D3> I measured it out the other day
1663 2010-12-05 14:57:58 <lolcat> What clients supports gpus and how many?
1664 2010-12-05 14:58:09 <[Noodles]> 5850 currently gets 50coins in 2-3days
1665 2010-12-05 14:58:11 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: none.
1666 2010-12-05 14:58:18 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: you need a miner
1667 2010-12-05 14:58:36 <T_X> wikileaks
1668 2010-12-05 14:58:41 <lolcat> Because I am building a computer any ways, so I could change to ATI from nvidia even know the drivers is a bit difficult
1669 2010-12-05 14:58:42 <T_X> woops
1670 2010-12-05 14:58:44 <[Noodles]> at least mine does, maybe less at stock-frequency
1671 2010-12-05 14:58:53 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: oh, fuck nvidia
1672 2010-12-05 14:58:59 <Diablo-D3> nvidia has very poor integer performance
1673 2010-12-05 14:59:03 <Diablo-D3> very very slow
1674 2010-12-05 14:59:16 <lolcat> Well, I don't play games, so I dont really car what gpu I get.
1675 2010-12-05 14:59:22 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: radeon 5xxx.
1676 2010-12-05 14:59:26 <lolcat> the i7 I will get though
1677 2010-12-05 14:59:32 <Diablo-D3> why bother with intel?
1678 2010-12-05 14:59:34 <Diablo-D3> overpriced shit
1679 2010-12-05 14:59:40 <genjix> what is account in the rpc api?
1680 2010-12-05 14:59:55 <genjix> does it refer to one wallet?
1681 2010-12-05 15:00:08 <Diablo-D3> genjix: theres accounts in wallets now
1682 2010-12-05 15:00:24 <genjix> thanks Diablo-D3
1683 2010-12-05 15:00:56 <Diablo-D3> dunno what they do though
1684 2010-12-05 15:01:37 <Hogofwar> bitcoin-php is refusing tow rok aswell
1685 2010-12-05 15:01:40 <lolcat> I think it is weird, that a computer can make 125USD a month
1686 2010-12-05 15:01:56 <genjix> the rpc api requires it but i dont know how to get the account handle
1687 2010-12-05 15:02:03 <genjix> Hogofwar: im using json rpc
1688 2010-12-05 15:02:17 <Hogofwar> Accounts are labels
1689 2010-12-05 15:02:37 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: only because people think btc are worth something
1690 2010-12-05 15:03:32 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: As long as someone is willing to buy them, they are
1691 2010-12-05 15:04:04 <Diablo-D3> yes
1692 2010-12-05 15:05:00 <[Noodles]> but that might change next week, or next month, noone knows
1693 2010-12-05 15:05:23 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: I think I'm just going to eat the -52 error
1694 2010-12-05 15:05:38 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: it happens for no reason, and only once in awhile
1695 2010-12-05 15:05:46 <Diablo-D3> I suspect driver bug
1696 2010-12-05 15:06:48 <lolcat> My user and password? FOr what? The Diablo miner is askin...
1697 2010-12-05 15:07:10 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: for rpc
1698 2010-12-05 15:07:18 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: do --help, read instructions at bottom
1699 2010-12-05 15:08:07 <lolcat> I have to run the daemon for that?
1700 2010-12-05 15:08:23 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: or start the gui with --server
1701 2010-12-05 15:08:51 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: btw, I suggest you use sdk 2.1, 2.2 is really slow on 4xxx hardware
1702 2010-12-05 15:10:00 redMBA has joined
1703 2010-12-05 15:10:42 altamic has joined
1704 2010-12-05 15:11:17 <lolcat> There is no bitcoin.conf :S
1705 2010-12-05 15:13:20 <Diablo-D3> yes, you have to create it
1706 2010-12-05 15:17:03 <lolcat> Added GeForce G 105M (#1) (1 CU, 1x vector, local work size of clang: Too many positional arguments specified!
1707 2010-12-05 15:18:00 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: nvidia's driver currently does not comply with the opencl specification
1708 2010-12-05 15:18:05 <Diablo-D3> and I happen to run into it
1709 2010-12-05 15:18:14 <lolcat> Oh
1710 2010-12-05 15:18:23 <lolcat> Hope my other laptop has ati then
1711 2010-12-05 15:18:41 <Diablo-D3> its not really worth mining on laptops
1712 2010-12-05 15:18:46 <Diablo-D3> they tend to overheat and have short lives
1713 2010-12-05 15:19:03 <lolcat> This one will have a short live
1714 2010-12-05 15:21:19 <lolcat> I guess I need sun java too run it
1715 2010-12-05 15:21:27 <lolcat> then Id have to wait
1716 2010-12-05 15:21:51 Hogofwar has quit (Excess Flood)
1717 2010-12-05 15:21:53 <Diablo-D3> yes, you need java.
1718 2010-12-05 15:22:04 <lolcat> I think I have open-jdk
1719 2010-12-05 15:22:08 Hogofwar has joined
1720 2010-12-05 15:22:11 <genjix> hey Hogofwar
1721 2010-12-05 15:22:13 <Diablo-D3> openjdk works too
1722 2010-12-05 15:22:32 <lolcat> Oh, I got a bucnh of missing classes errors or something
1723 2010-12-05 15:22:35 <lolcat> but I have to run now
1724 2010-12-05 15:22:38 <lolcat> later
1725 2010-12-05 15:23:25 <genjix> is label and account the same thing?
1726 2010-12-05 15:23:31 <Diablo-D3> genjix: possibly
1727 2010-12-05 15:23:51 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: if you got this from git, you forgot to run mvn package first
1728 2010-12-05 15:24:21 <genjix> my labels are blank, and yet if I use "" for account nothing works
1729 2010-12-05 15:26:48 <Diablo-D3> genjix: it needs a listaccounts thing
1730 2010-12-05 15:26:50 <Diablo-D3> either that or
1731 2010-12-05 15:26:58 <Diablo-D3> listtransactions with nothing just needs to LIST THE FUCKING TRANSACTIONS
1732 2010-12-05 15:27:10 <genjix> agreed
1733 2010-12-05 15:28:16 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1734 2010-12-05 15:28:50 <Diablo-D3> and its still triply useless
1735 2010-12-05 15:28:59 <Diablo-D3> genned coins HAVE NO LABEL
1736 2010-12-05 15:37:33 <gavinandresen> genned coins are assigned to the empty-string account
1737 2010-12-05 15:38:09 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: why doesnt listtransactions list all transactions?
1738 2010-12-05 15:38:22 <Diablo-D3> when I dont list an account I mean
1739 2010-12-05 15:38:45 <gavinandresen> Because that would be slow on really big wallets with lots of accounts.
1740 2010-12-05 15:38:53 <Diablo-D3> so?
1741 2010-12-05 15:39:06 <Diablo-D3> it fails the basic "do what I say" logic
1742 2010-12-05 15:39:46 <gavinandresen> So I take the time to implement a new feature, and you're going to bitch that it doesn't do EXACTLY what you want it to do.
1743 2010-12-05 15:40:24 <gavinandresen> Ok, give me a compelling use case for why you want to list all transactions for all accounts. First, what are you using accounts for?
1744 2010-12-05 15:41:49 <Diablo-D3> Im not using accounts.
1745 2010-12-05 15:42:00 <Diablo-D3> ergo, I want to list all transactions
1746 2010-12-05 15:42:03 <gavinandresen> If you're not using accounts then listtransaction '' gives you ALL TRANSACTIONS
1747 2010-12-05 15:42:10 <Diablo-D3> yes, but I have to type that ''
1748 2010-12-05 15:42:19 <joe_1> haha
1749 2010-12-05 15:42:36 <gavinandresen> Yeah, and if you want to remove all files in the current directory you gotta type rm * .....
1750 2010-12-05 15:42:49 <gavinandresen> Wouldn't it be better to just type 'rm' ?
1751 2010-12-05 15:42:55 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: yes, but if I type ls, I dont have to type ls *
1752 2010-12-05 15:42:58 darrob has joined
1753 2010-12-05 15:43:04 <joe_1> no you have to type rm -r ./*
1754 2010-12-05 15:43:14 <joe_1> no you have to type ls -a
1755 2010-12-05 15:43:24 <oldgregg> joe_1: I prefer rm -rf /
1756 2010-12-05 15:43:33 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: only if I want to list hidden files
1757 2010-12-05 15:43:36 <oldgregg> amidoinitrite?
1758 2010-12-05 15:43:53 <joe_1> but it's not doing what i say. ls should list all files and it doesn't unless i specify additional options
1759 2010-12-05 15:44:11 <oldgregg> joe_1: alias ls='ls -a'
1760 2010-12-05 15:44:19 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: your example doesnt work
1761 2010-12-05 15:44:24 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin doesnt have hidden labels
1762 2010-12-05 15:45:01 <Diablo-D3> the closest thing would be listtransactions automatically has an empty string if you dont supply one
1763 2010-12-05 15:45:02 <joe_1> my example works because it doesn't do what its name says without adding additional options.
1764 2010-12-05 15:45:19 <Hogofwar> ANybody here use php to connect to bitcoind?
1765 2010-12-05 15:45:35 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: no one in here takes php seriously
1766 2010-12-05 15:45:53 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: ls does list files
1767 2010-12-05 15:45:58 <Diablo-D3> ergo, it does what it says on the box.
1768 2010-12-05 15:46:05 <joe_1> no. it lists some files
1769 2010-12-05 15:46:20 <Diablo-D3> listtransaction does not list some transaction.
1770 2010-12-05 15:46:32 <joe_1> yes it does. it lists a set of transactions whose size is zero.
1771 2010-12-05 15:46:36 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: so you have two choices here
1772 2010-12-05 15:46:41 <joe_1> unless you add options to tell it which transactions
1773 2010-12-05 15:46:45 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: either make listtransaction default to '', or just do all.
1774 2010-12-05 15:47:14 <joe_1> same with ls. If i put 5 files in a directory all hidden, ls will return nothing without the -a option.
1775 2010-12-05 15:47:34 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: except ls doesnt return an error because there are no files
1776 2010-12-05 15:47:43 <Diablo-D3> listtransaction returns an error if I dont give an account name
1777 2010-12-05 15:52:24 <gavinandresen> Diablo-D3: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/issues/issue/17
1778 2010-12-05 15:53:09 <joe_1> what is an account any way?
1779 2010-12-05 15:53:15 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r6c9e61d / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
1780 2010-12-05 15:53:15 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Eat spurious kernel queue failure -52 errors, this is a bug in stream
1781 2010-12-05 15:53:15 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: sdk 2.2 - http://bit.ly/giIeBz
1782 2010-12-05 15:53:32 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: that works
1783 2010-12-05 15:54:00 <Diablo-D3> hrm, how do I tell github to track an issue
1784 2010-12-05 15:58:40 <genjix> joe_1: new feature apparently
1785 2010-12-05 15:58:54 <joe_1> sounds unnecessary
1786 2010-12-05 15:59:06 <joe_1> that's something for third parties to do, not bitcoin
1787 2010-12-05 15:59:09 <genjix> i already imagine one use for it
1788 2010-12-05 15:59:17 <gavinandresen> account == label. It is a way for web sites to keep track of lots of users' balances in one wallet
1789 2010-12-05 15:59:22 <genjix> you have a website where people deposit money
1790 2010-12-05 15:59:28 <genjix> yep exactly
1791 2010-12-05 15:59:34 <genjix> what gavinandresen said
1792 2010-12-05 15:59:39 <genjix> genjix@l:~/Downloads/bitcoin-0.3.17/bin/64$ ./bitcoind getbalance "Your Address"
1793 2010-12-05 15:59:42 <genjix> error: {"code":-1,"message":"under construction"}
1794 2010-12-05 15:59:45 <genjix> genjix@l:~/Downloads/bitcoin-0.3.17/bin/64$ ./bitcoind help getbalance
1795 2010-12-05 15:59:47 <genjix> getbalance [account] [minconf=1]
1796 2010-12-05 15:59:50 <genjix> If [account] is not specified, returns the server's total available balance.
1797 2010-12-05 15:59:53 <genjix> If [account] is specified, returns the balance in the account.
1798 2010-12-05 15:59:55 <genjix> except I cannot use them on Linux
1799 2010-12-05 15:59:59 <genjix> "under construction"
1800 2010-12-05 16:00:00 <gavinandresen> You need to be running latest svn
1801 2010-12-05 16:00:07 <genjix> thought so.
1802 2010-12-05 16:00:22 <gavinandresen> (next release the 'under construction' goes away)
1803 2010-12-05 16:00:33 <genjix> do i need to build wx?
1804 2010-12-05 16:00:44 <gavinandresen> Not for bitcoind
1805 2010-12-05 16:00:46 <genjix> because ubuntu only has wx 2.8 and it doesnt work
1806 2010-12-05 16:00:54 <joe_1> are all these changes to the rpc backwards compatible to 0.3.13?
1807 2010-12-05 16:00:57 <genjix> aha cool
1808 2010-12-05 16:01:18 <gavinandresen> There's one potentially breaking change: the sendtoaddress method now returns a transaction id instead of 'sent'
1809 2010-12-05 16:01:32 <genjix> gavinandresen: how do I disable the gui in build? :)
1810 2010-12-05 16:01:41 <gavinandresen> make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
1811 2010-12-05 16:01:58 <genjix> ah cool thanks
1812 2010-12-05 16:03:03 <Hogofwar> So getbalance <account> does not work in 0.3.17?
1813 2010-12-05 16:03:40 <Hogofwar> hm?
1814 2010-12-05 16:03:43 <joe_1> getreceivedbyaddress still works?
1815 2010-12-05 16:03:59 <gavinandresen> Hogofwar: nope, will give you 'under construction'
1816 2010-12-05 16:04:04 <Hogofwar> oh
1817 2010-12-05 16:04:07 <gavinandresen> joe_1: yes
1818 2010-12-05 16:04:14 <joe_1> ok thanks
1819 2010-12-05 16:04:18 <Hogofwar> So is it possible for me to get a balance of an account?
1820 2010-12-05 16:04:28 <Hogofwar> at all?
1821 2010-12-05 16:04:44 <gavinandresen> Hogofwar: not unless you're running latest svn or wait for 0.3.18
1822 2010-12-05 16:05:10 <genjix> Hogofwar: get/build the svn
1823 2010-12-05 16:05:18 <Hogofwar> Can someone send me precompiled svn bin for windows (bitcoind)
1824 2010-12-05 16:05:24 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: try newest version of my client, it ignores -52 errors now
1825 2010-12-05 16:05:24 <Hogofwar> I can't compile.
1826 2010-12-05 16:05:32 <Hogofwar> okay
1827 2010-12-05 16:05:45 <Hogofwar> Still, does anyone have latest SVN of bitcoind?
1828 2010-12-05 16:05:54 <Hogofwar> Compiled :P
1829 2010-12-05 16:06:07 <Hogofwar> Fow windows
1830 2010-12-05 16:06:10 <Hogofwar> *for
1831 2010-12-05 16:07:01 <Hogofwar> hm?
1832 2010-12-05 16:08:23 <Hogofwar> no?
1833 2010-12-05 16:08:24 <Hogofwar> Dam
1834 2010-12-05 16:08:25 <Hogofwar> n
1835 2010-12-05 16:09:47 <genjix> why does bitcoin use svn :p
1836 2010-12-05 16:09:57 <Diablo-D3> because satoshi could be retarded
1837 2010-12-05 16:10:22 <Hogofwar> :P
1838 2010-12-05 16:10:30 <Hogofwar> So nobody has precomoild windows binaries?
1839 2010-12-05 16:10:48 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: why do you need svn?
1840 2010-12-05 16:11:16 <Hogofwar> Becuase it has getbalance for sepearate accounts
1841 2010-12-05 16:13:01 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rb6c8527 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Forgot to make a debug message only trigger on debug - http://bit.ly/fGPC55
1842 2010-12-05 16:18:05 Hogofwar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1843 2010-12-05 16:20:32 Hogofwar has joined
1844 2010-12-05 16:20:45 <Hogofwar> and back
1845 2010-12-05 16:21:19 redMBA has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1846 2010-12-05 16:23:24 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1847 2010-12-05 16:24:57 <Hogofwar> When will 0.3.18 be released?
1848 2010-12-05 16:31:18 <genjix> how do you make new accounts from in bitcoind?
1849 2010-12-05 16:31:33 <Hogofwar> getnewaddress
1850 2010-12-05 16:31:44 <genjix> thats a new address
1851 2010-12-05 16:31:50 <Hogofwar> yes which makes a new account
1852 2010-12-05 16:31:51 <genjix> i mean an account
1853 2010-12-05 16:31:56 <genjix> oh
1854 2010-12-05 16:32:00 <Hogofwar> Youc an't have an account without an address
1855 2010-12-05 16:32:17 <Hogofwar> What's teh default outgoing port?
1856 2010-12-05 16:32:20 <genjix> can you have 2 addresses on 1 count?
1857 2010-12-05 16:32:23 <Hogofwar> Yes
1858 2010-12-05 16:32:39 <Hogofwar> just do getnewaddress (name taht already exists)
1859 2010-12-05 16:32:47 <genjix> aha coool :)
1860 2010-12-05 16:32:53 <Hogofwar> I think you can tie an adress with no account to an account aswell
1861 2010-12-05 16:33:23 <gavinandresen> Accounts are associated with zero or more addresses. You can create an account with no addresses using the 'move' command.
1862 2010-12-05 16:33:43 <genjix> yeha fuck that tho
1863 2010-12-05 16:33:59 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: try new client, it ignores -52 error
1864 2010-12-05 16:34:00 <genjix> :p getnewaddress sounds good to me
1865 2010-12-05 16:34:40 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: works with 0.3.17 =P
1866 2010-12-05 16:34:43 <gavinandresen> In the app I'm working on I'm using a FEES account to keep track of the transaction fees. Very handy....
1867 2010-12-05 16:35:30 <genjix> this accounts business is A++++ very useful
1868 2010-12-05 16:35:32 <Hogofwar> Fine diablo, i will
1869 2010-12-05 16:35:54 <Hogofwar> EXCEPT NO GETBALANCE FOR WINDOWS USERS WHO CAN'T COMPILE
1870 2010-12-05 16:35:57 <Hogofwar> :/
1871 2010-12-05 16:36:50 <Diablo-D3> its not like you need it
1872 2010-12-05 16:36:55 <Diablo-D3> run the GUI client with --server
1873 2010-12-05 16:37:00 <gavinandresen> Sorry Hog. Maybe somebody who knows about such things could setup an automatic nightly build system.
1874 2010-12-05 16:37:03 redengin has joined
1875 2010-12-05 16:37:10 <Hogofwar> hmmm
1876 2010-12-05 16:37:21 <Hogofwar> Diablo i do need it
1877 2010-12-05 16:37:48 <Hogofwar> DIablo your thing appears to be working so far
1878 2010-12-05 16:38:23 <genjix> cool
1879 2010-12-05 16:38:38 <Diablo-D3> Hogofwar: it seems retarded that I have to work around driver bugs
1880 2010-12-05 16:38:39 <genjix> so because of accounts, i can nuke balance from my SQL tables :)
1881 2010-12-05 16:40:21 Hogofwar has quit ()
1882 2010-12-05 16:40:25 <genjix> is there loss by running getnewaddress everytime instead of saving the address?
1883 2010-12-05 16:40:31 <genjix> like it doesnt cause overhead?
1884 2010-12-05 16:41:08 <genjix> lets say everytime the user wants to deposit, I just run getnewaddress and give them an addy for their account.
1885 2010-12-05 16:41:16 <genjix> thats cool?
1886 2010-12-05 16:42:22 Hogofwar has joined
1887 2010-12-05 16:43:00 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1888 2010-12-05 16:44:04 <gavinandresen> genjix: that's encouraged. Makes it harder to connect users to bitcoins if you're browsing the transaction chains.
1889 2010-12-05 16:44:11 <genjix> thanks :)
1890 2010-12-05 16:44:17 <Hogofwar> what is gen?
1891 2010-12-05 16:44:28 <Hogofwar> -kix
1892 2010-12-05 16:44:30 <Hogofwar> -jix
1893 2010-12-05 16:44:33 <Hogofwar> genjix :P
1894 2010-12-05 16:44:39 <Hogofwar> What's encouraged?
1895 2010-12-05 16:44:44 redMBA has joined
1896 2010-12-05 16:50:03 altamic has joined
1897 2010-12-05 16:50:32 <genjix> Hogofwar: getnewaddress for every transaction
1898 2010-12-05 16:55:10 <genjix> genjix@l:~/Templates/bitcoin$ ./bitcoind getbalance
1899 2010-12-05 16:55:10 <genjix> 93.50000000
1900 2010-12-05 16:55:10 <genjix> genjix@l:~/Templates/bitcoin$ ./bitcoind getbalance "Your Address"
1901 2010-12-05 16:55:10 <genjix> 2.25000000
1902 2010-12-05 16:55:31 <genjix> most of my money are on empty accounts
1903 2010-12-05 16:55:46 <genjix> on ""
1904 2010-12-05 16:56:06 <genjix> nevermind.
1905 2010-12-05 16:57:04 <genjix> sweet
1906 2010-12-05 16:57:15 <genjix> i can transfer between accounts :p
1907 2010-12-05 17:00:44 Hogofwar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1908 2010-12-05 17:00:45 HarryS has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1909 2010-12-05 17:01:18 <Kiba> good morning
1910 2010-12-05 17:01:33 Hogofwar has joined
1911 2010-12-05 17:11:37 <TheAncientGoat> Hi Kiba
1912 2010-12-05 17:13:54 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1913 2010-12-05 17:16:28 doublec_ has joined
1914 2010-12-05 17:16:46 tcatm_ has joined
1915 2010-12-05 17:16:48 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1916 2010-12-05 17:16:56 xelister_ has joined
1917 2010-12-05 17:17:50 tcatm_ is now known as tcatm
1918 2010-12-05 17:18:00 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
1919 2010-12-05 17:18:31 CIA-84 has joined
1920 2010-12-05 17:19:48 <Hogofwar> wtf
1921 2010-12-05 17:21:07 <Kiba> wtf?
1922 2010-12-05 17:21:23 djoot has joined
1923 2010-12-05 17:22:21 <genjix> ./bitcoind listreceivedbyaccount
1924 2010-12-05 17:22:22 <genjix> [
1925 2010-12-05 17:22:22 <genjix> {
1926 2010-12-05 17:22:22 <genjix> "account" : "",
1927 2010-12-05 17:22:22 <genjix> "label" : "",
1928 2010-12-05 17:22:24 <genjix> "amount" : 212.67000000,
1929 2010-12-05 17:22:26 <genjix> "confirmations" : 1440
1930 2010-12-05 17:22:29 <genjix> },
1931 2010-12-05 17:22:32 <genjix> i never ever has > 100 btc in my account
1932 2010-12-05 17:22:35 <genjix> what is that?
1933 2010-12-05 17:23:52 <Kiba> you must have spend it?
1934 2010-12-05 17:24:18 <genjix> no
1935 2010-12-05 17:24:29 <genjix> ive never had that much
1936 2010-12-05 17:24:51 <Hogofwar> that's the total you have ever had
1937 2010-12-05 17:25:14 <genjix> 100 btc
1938 2010-12-05 17:25:54 <Hogofwar> it son;y shows the amount received
1939 2010-12-05 17:26:07 <Hogofwar> doens't take into account taht you have given some away
1940 2010-12-05 17:26:51 <Hogofwar> DOes nobody have compiled windows binaries from the svn?
1941 2010-12-05 17:26:59 <Hogofwar> just for bitcoind?
1942 2010-12-05 17:27:05 <genjix> no i've never had more than 100
1943 2010-12-05 17:27:08 <genjix> its impossible
1944 2010-12-05 17:27:29 <Hogofwar> How much have you sent away?
1945 2010-12-05 17:27:35 <Hogofwar> have you sent away any at all?
1946 2010-12-05 17:27:51 <genjix> i've only gained bitcoins
1947 2010-12-05 17:38:45 <tcatm> genjix: Can you do a listtransactions ""?
1948 2010-12-05 17:38:54 <genjix> sure
1949 2010-12-05 17:39:04 <genjix> thats what gives that entry
1950 2010-12-05 17:39:06 <genjix> at the top
1951 2010-12-05 17:39:31 <tcatm> only that?
1952 2010-12-05 17:39:31 <genjix> im using svn btw
1953 2010-12-05 17:39:44 <genjix> now, a whole bunch of other stuff that seems normal
1954 2010-12-05 17:39:57 <Diablo-D3> genjix: you've never sent any money to other people?
1955 2010-12-05 17:40:09 <genjix> not for 200 btc
1956 2010-12-05 17:40:23 <genjix> the most my account has been is 100 btc
1957 2010-12-05 17:40:32 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
1958 2010-12-05 17:40:34 <Diablo-D3> who knows then
1959 2010-12-05 17:41:17 <Hogofwar> Could anyone compile for windows from the current bitcoin svn?
1960 2010-12-05 17:42:43 <genjix> im starting to worry that my wallet has been fucked with the new bitcoin svn
1961 2010-12-05 17:42:55 <genjix> because if i try to open the old gui i get a whole load of errors
1962 2010-12-05 17:43:09 <genjix> abour trying to repear a database and failing.
1963 2010-12-05 17:43:16 <Hogofwar> okay, now i don't want the svn.
1964 2010-12-05 17:43:17 <nanotube> genjix: hope you have backups.
1965 2010-12-05 17:43:23 <genjix> no :(
1966 2010-12-05 17:43:29 <Hogofwar> Ooooheeeeoooh
1967 2010-12-05 17:43:42 <Hogofwar> Try using the olf bitcoin you were using?
1968 2010-12-05 17:44:05 <genjix> nanotube: wait i do have a backup, but i sent using the new client
1969 2010-12-05 17:44:15 <genjix> so effectively it makes my old backup useless, right?
1970 2010-12-05 17:44:40 HarryS has joined
1971 2010-12-05 17:44:55 <nanotube> genjix: nope, there's a keypool now
1972 2010-12-05 17:45:03 <nanotube> so your backup should still be fine
1973 2010-12-05 17:45:20 <nanotube> (unless it is a backup from some really old version)
1974 2010-12-05 17:45:36 <genjix> nope
1975 2010-12-05 17:46:21 <Hogofwar> 3.14 it was
1976 2010-12-05 17:46:22 <genjix> i backed up. got svn, sent 10 btc to my sis (not show after 2 confirmations yet).
1977 2010-12-05 17:47:02 <Kiba> wee!
1978 2010-12-05 17:47:06 * Kiba evolves as an artist
1979 2010-12-05 17:47:48 <genjix> Kiba: check your pm
1980 2010-12-05 17:47:49 <Hogofwar> kiba can i have a smaple of your art?
1981 2010-12-05 17:47:58 <Hogofwar> *sample
1982 2010-12-05 17:48:42 <Kiba> Hogofwar: it's only 0.10
1983 2010-12-05 17:49:05 <Hogofwar> at this point that means so much to me
1984 2010-12-05 17:51:47 forrestv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1985 2010-12-05 17:53:27 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1986 2010-12-05 17:54:18 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2089.0
1987 2010-12-05 17:55:40 forrestv has joined
1988 2010-12-05 17:55:47 <Hogofwar> you are ficked
1989 2010-12-05 17:55:50 <Hogofwar> *fucked
1990 2010-12-05 17:57:16 <Kiba> who is fucked?
1991 2010-12-05 17:57:45 <Kiba> oh, genjix is fucked
1992 2010-12-05 17:58:42 <[Noodles]> tried to delete your DB? just be sure to keep wallet and blk***.dat
1993 2010-12-05 18:01:04 <fedorared> Hmm looks like I also hit the Diablo miner natives error thing while headless, aka http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php?topic=3585.10;wap2
1994 2010-12-05 18:02:32 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,stats
1995 2010-12-05 18:02:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 95777 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 990 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11379.42372962
1996 2010-12-05 18:13:31 <genjix> [Noodles]: can I delete everything then except the wallet?
1997 2010-12-05 18:15:44 <genjix> ok nevermind tsk
1998 2010-12-05 18:15:55 <genjix> just realised my sister hasnt downloaded all the blocks yet :p
1999 2010-12-05 18:15:58 <nanotube> genjix: yes, the only thing you really need is the wallet. the block chain can be re-downloaded.
2000 2010-12-05 18:16:20 <bencoder> Kiba: you should be able to upload or generate a preview with your next image, sorry I haven't done more, I meant to do a lot more this weekend :/
2001 2010-12-05 18:17:23 <Kiba> code code code code code code code
2002 2010-12-05 18:19:50 <Kiba> wee!
2003 2010-12-05 18:19:57 <Kiba> there's a cat outside my room
2004 2010-12-05 18:21:34 redMBA has joined
2005 2010-12-05 18:24:09 <Hogofwar> gah
2006 2010-12-05 18:24:21 <Hogofwar> i really wanted get_balance
2007 2010-12-05 18:24:53 <Hogofwar> getbalance i mean
2008 2010-12-05 18:52:17 HarryS has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2009 2010-12-05 18:54:19 Demoted_ has joined
2010 2010-12-05 18:54:32 <Demoted_> hello
2011 2010-12-05 18:54:49 <Demoted_> how's everyone doing
2012 2010-12-05 18:55:29 <Demoted_> i'm writing a proposal for WikiLeaks to start accepting bitcoin donations, and requesting that they do as much of their purchasing as possible with them
2013 2010-12-05 18:56:34 Lyspooner has joined
2014 2010-12-05 18:58:38 <Kiba> Demoted_: don't.
2015 2010-12-05 18:59:00 <Kiba> Satoshi made a plea with wikileaks not to use bitcoin
2016 2010-12-05 18:59:01 <Demoted_> why?
2017 2010-12-05 18:59:06 <Demoted_> i just thought of it, looking for input
2018 2010-12-05 18:59:20 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1735.140
2019 2010-12-05 18:59:23 <Demoted_> is it not ready yet?
2020 2010-12-05 18:59:26 <Demoted_> oh cool
2021 2010-12-05 19:00:10 <Kiba> we had a long thread discussing whether or not to pitch bitcoins to wikileak
2022 2010-12-05 19:00:11 andrew12 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023 2010-12-05 19:00:31 <Kiba> Satoshi effectively ended the conversation at this point.
2024 2010-12-05 19:00:37 <Demoted_> ah that's what i was thinking
2025 2010-12-05 19:00:42 <Demoted_> that it would come under attack
2026 2010-12-05 19:00:49 <Kiba> everybody have the same idea
2027 2010-12-05 19:01:21 <Kiba> it would, and Satoshi thinks it would destroy us all
2028 2010-12-05 19:01:58 <Demoted_> unrelated question: is it secure to use bitcoin over TOR
2029 2010-12-05 19:03:21 <genjix> woah
2030 2010-12-05 19:04:05 <genjix> i forgot about that thread. thanks for showing me it.
2031 2010-12-05 19:07:35 <[Noodles]> Demoted_: no problems here with using TOR
2032 2010-12-05 19:08:46 andrew12 has joined
2033 2010-12-05 19:19:13 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,stats
2034 2010-12-05 19:19:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 95783 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 984 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 47 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11343.26852071
2035 2010-12-05 19:31:45 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2036 2010-12-05 19:43:01 ptd has joined
2037 2010-12-05 19:43:53 <ptd> Does anyone know where the bitcoin logo came from originally?
2038 2010-12-05 19:44:28 <ptd> this one http://www.oneradionetwork.com/images/stories/bitcoin.jpg
2039 2010-12-05 19:46:21 <[Noodles]> Satoshi made 'em, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=64.0
2040 2010-12-05 19:49:03 <[Noodles]> but there'v been others doing logos too, check http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1631.00
2041 2010-12-05 19:52:03 <gavinandresen> Anybody willing to help me track down a wallet corruption bug?
2042 2010-12-05 19:52:28 <gavinandresen> It involves looking through patches for missing code....
2043 2010-12-05 19:53:07 * nanotube is willing, but probably lacks expertise, having not really looked at bitcoin code at all...
2044 2010-12-05 19:53:30 <gavinandresen> nanotube: all you have to do is look around line 837 of main.h.
2045 2010-12-05 19:53:55 <gavinandresen> There should be code that says: if (nVersion >= 31404) .. followed by writing three values.
2046 2010-12-05 19:53:55 <nanotube> gavinandresen: look for what? :)
2047 2010-12-05 19:54:10 <gavinandresen> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/blob/master/main.h#L837
2048 2010-12-05 19:54:33 <nanotube> yes so where do i look for it?
2049 2010-12-05 19:54:34 <gavinandresen> I think genjix and davout and brocktice somehow managed to run a bitcoin with that if() missing.
2050 2010-12-05 19:55:19 <nanotube> oh and then what happened?
2051 2010-12-05 19:56:52 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2052 2010-12-05 19:57:10 <gavinandresen> They wrote transactions into their wallet.dat that were missing those three fields, and then ran a bitcoin that expected them to be there.
2053 2010-12-05 19:57:22 <gavinandresen> Result: crash at startup.
2054 2010-12-05 19:57:34 <Hogofwar> Is it fixed?
2055 2010-12-05 19:58:00 <nanotube> gavinandresen: aah i see. interesting. so you want to find which patch removed those lines?
2056 2010-12-05 19:58:09 <gavinandresen> No, it's not fixed yet. I want to make sure I understand how it happened.
2057 2010-12-05 19:58:13 <gavinandresen> nanotube: exactly.
2058 2010-12-05 19:58:25 <nanotube> do /they/ know what patches they have applied to their bitcoin? that'd help :)
2059 2010-12-05 19:58:43 <Kiba> gavinandresen: a thread need moving in project development section.. It's the killswitch system
2060 2010-12-05 19:58:44 <Hogofwar> can't you see from a diff?
2061 2010-12-05 19:59:08 <Hogofwar> We should NOT have a killswitch
2062 2010-12-05 19:59:09 <gavinandresen> Sure if I knew which patch. Maybe m0mchil's getwork patch? Maybe one of my git branches?
2063 2010-12-05 19:59:37 <Hogofwar> didn't they get it from the official svn?
2064 2010-12-05 19:59:51 <gavinandresen> Hogofwar: I don't think so.
2065 2010-12-05 19:59:52 <tcatm> What exactly needs to be done? Finding a patch that might remove that code?
2066 2010-12-05 20:00:00 RazielZ has quit ()
2067 2010-12-05 20:00:04 <gavinandresen> tcatm: yup.
2068 2010-12-05 20:01:00 <Hogofwar> sod oe sthe official SVN owrk?
2069 2010-12-05 20:01:04 <Hogofwar> *so does
2070 2010-12-05 20:01:34 <gavinandresen> Yes, no problems (as far as I know) running the official svn.
2071 2010-12-05 20:02:19 HarryS has joined
2072 2010-12-05 20:03:21 <lolcat> mvn package?
2073 2010-12-05 20:04:28 <ArtForz> version 31404 ?
2074 2010-12-05 20:04:40 <lolcat> Can I apt-get it?
2075 2010-12-05 20:04:47 <ArtForz> that sounds -... wrong
2076 2010-12-05 20:05:08 <tcatm> gavinandresen: Could it also be the case that nVersion got corrupted?
2077 2010-12-05 20:05:31 * lolcat is downloading 147MB of java libraries to use diablo iner
2078 2010-12-05 20:06:06 <gavinandresen> tcatm: nVersion looks ok, I checked that
2079 2010-12-05 20:06:33 <ArtForz> r187 was 31504, and it didnt write those 3 fiels
2080 2010-12-05 20:06:43 <gavinandresen> Where is m0mchil's getwork patch? davout said he was running with it, maybe applying that to the latest svn makes bad things happen....
2081 2010-12-05 20:07:03 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: ah.......
2082 2010-12-05 20:07:19 <ArtForz> wait, r187 = 31505, didn't write em
2083 2010-12-05 20:08:11 theymos has joined
2084 2010-12-05 20:08:42 <ArtForz> so shouldnt it be if nVersion >= 31600 (== mainline r188)
2085 2010-12-05 20:09:33 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: yup, I think that's right
2086 2010-12-05 20:13:51 <lolcat> I am confused, would a single ATI HD 5850 be bether than the bitcoin mining pool?
2087 2010-12-05 20:14:00 <Hogofwar> does sendfrom work in 0.3.17?
2088 2010-12-05 20:14:17 <gavinandresen> Hogofwar: no, 'under construction'
2089 2010-12-05 20:14:24 <ArtForz> depends, a 5850 is about 240Mh/s
2090 2010-12-05 20:14:35 <Hogofwar> goddamn
2091 2010-12-05 20:14:47 <Hogofwar> I reeeeeaaaalllllllyyyyy need a compiled windows binary then
2092 2010-12-05 20:14:55 <Hogofwar> Or a power cable
2093 2010-12-05 20:15:04 ptd has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2094 2010-12-05 20:15:05 <Hogofwar> windows binary preffered
2095 2010-12-05 20:15:08 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: still, that doesn't explain the symptoms I'm seeing: a nVersion=31700 wallet transaction that is MISSING those three fields.
2096 2010-12-05 20:15:48 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: so there's still some rogue variation of bitcoin that is version 31700 and failing to write those fields.
2097 2010-12-05 20:17:00 <lolcat> ArtForz: So that is 240 000 Kh/s?
2098 2010-12-05 20:17:09 <tcatm> You could ask those who had the problems for the bitcoin binary.
2099 2010-12-05 20:17:38 <Hogofwar> ;;bc,calc 240000
2100 2010-12-05 20:17:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 240000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 day, 16 hours, 9 minutes, and 24 seconds
2101 2010-12-05 20:17:48 <gavinandresen> tcatm: they may not have it any more, you only run into problems if you run bad binary, then run good binary....
2102 2010-12-05 20:18:25 <lolcat> Then it would be economic for me to buy a Ati HD5850 and use it for mining...
2103 2010-12-05 20:18:42 <lolcat> I'd earn it in within a month
2104 2010-12-05 20:19:03 <ArtForz> stupid idea: someone replacing main.cpp/main.h with the pacthed r186 ones from m0s getwork patch?
2105 2010-12-05 20:19:04 <tcatm> Can you somehow add a check whether those fields are actually present in wallet so future versions won't break the wallet?
2106 2010-12-05 20:19:05 <lolcat> What if I stick two videocards in my computer? Do I get twice the speed?
2107 2010-12-05 20:20:04 <tcatm> Does m0s patch change main.h?
2108 2010-12-05 20:20:09 <ArtForz> yep
2109 2010-12-05 20:20:30 <[Noodles]> lolcat: if it's simililar cards, yes
2110 2010-12-05 20:20:32 <ArtForz> but in addition to the patch he also has patched main.cpp/.h in git
2111 2010-12-05 20:20:44 <[Noodles]> -il
2112 2010-12-05 20:21:15 <ArtForz> so if someone replaces main.cpp/main.h of a >r187 ver with those ones, he'll end up with a newer bnVersion (it's fro mserialize.h) and those fields missing
2113 2010-12-05 20:21:40 <lolcat> [Noodles]: Are you the BitLex noodles?
2114 2010-12-05 20:21:47 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: yeah, that'd do it....
2115 2010-12-05 20:21:52 <[Noodles]> that's me
2116 2010-12-05 20:22:11 <lolcat> Interessting, maybe I could make linden dollars and get bitcoins from them...
2117 2010-12-05 20:22:26 <[Noodles]> sure, just gimme a call
2118 2010-12-05 20:23:28 <lolcat> I am sorry if I am asking a lot, but I just really love this concept
2119 2010-12-05 20:24:05 <tcatm> So we need a warning to not upgrade from m0's getwork to satoshi's getwork?
2120 2010-12-05 20:27:14 <gavinandresen> tcatm: yeah, although I'd feel more confident if somebody running the old getwork patch verified that they ended up with a main.h missing the needed if().
2121 2010-12-05 20:29:52 dhean_diana has joined
2122 2010-12-05 20:29:52 dhean_diana has left ("http://www.1filesharing.com/download/UKSU96DW/psyBNC2.3.2_1.rar")
2123 2010-12-05 20:33:04 <Hogofwar> this is annoying....
2124 2010-12-05 20:33:48 <bencoder> Kiba: smoketoomuch pledged 1000, not 100
2125 2010-12-05 20:34:47 <Hogofwar> Can anyone here supply me with the latest svn compiled for windows
2126 2010-12-05 20:36:09 alystair has joined
2127 2010-12-05 20:36:40 <Kiba> bencoder: done.
2128 2010-12-05 20:36:48 grondilu has joined
2129 2010-12-05 20:37:31 <bencoder> cool :)
2130 2010-12-05 20:38:04 <bencoder> getting a little bit sizeable, of course, $250 worth of bitcoins still isn't a huge payment for the effort that will be involved
2131 2010-12-05 20:46:22 <Kiba> we lack raw coding talents
2132 2010-12-05 20:46:27 <Kiba> this is a serious limitation
2133 2010-12-05 20:46:38 <Kiba> raw coding talents = knowledge of how bitcoin really work.
2134 2010-12-05 20:49:37 rlifchitz_ has quit (Quit: "I never worry about action, but only about inaction" (W. Churchill))
2135 2010-12-05 20:50:01 rlifchitz has joined
2136 2010-12-05 20:50:35 <Hogofwar> AAAHBSJASAJNSJANSJANSAJNSJSNANSLASKLASASNNSALNSAKNSMNSSALSNJASNAJNSJSNKSNKAJNSJANSJANSMANSJKSNJNSJSNASNMANSANJNASJKANSAJNSJANSJANSJKANSAJKNSAJKNS
2137 2010-12-05 20:50:48 <Hogofwar> Decode that!
2138 2010-12-05 20:50:49 <Kiba> bkbjklhjkhjklhjklhkjlhjklghkjl?
2139 2010-12-05 20:50:58 <Kiba> lol
2140 2010-12-05 20:51:28 * Kiba doesn't know cryptography
2141 2010-12-05 20:52:11 * Hogofwar doesn't know cryptography and just mashed his keyboard
2142 2010-12-05 20:52:47 * Hogofwar did it mostly in rage that nobody has a compiled windows binary from the latest SVN
2143 2010-12-05 20:55:02 <Hogofwar> when is 0.3.18 going to be released?
2144 2010-12-05 20:55:49 <theymos> Probably as soon as that wallet bug is figured out.
2145 2010-12-05 20:55:50 * Kiba is in a bit of a panic because he can't code something like bitcoin
2146 2010-12-05 20:56:03 <Kiba> unforseen opportunity and danger
2147 2010-12-05 20:56:22 <Kiba> 5 months ago, I would never guess BitDNS, let alone Bitcoin
2148 2010-12-05 20:56:44 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
2149 2010-12-05 20:59:06 <xelister_> Hogofwar: I can make for you .exe of latest SVN of the bitcoind (no gui) for say 5 BTC
2150 2010-12-05 21:00:40 <xelister_> (its 2 usd ;)
2151 2010-12-05 21:01:32 <xelister_> erm, no wait... it probably still doesnt crossbuild the command line parsing function that is broken (non-boost standard) and fail to crosscompile
2152 2010-12-05 21:01:49 <lolcat> Bah, still getting classloader errors with the diablo miner...
2153 2010-12-05 21:02:26 Hogofwar has quit ()
2154 2010-12-05 21:02:57 <xelister_> lolcat: what card you have?
2155 2010-12-05 21:03:22 <lolcat> I have no idea...
2156 2010-12-05 21:04:03 <lolcat> Maybe I don't have the drivers, 2 sec
2157 2010-12-05 21:04:14 <xelister_> lolcat: what graphics card you have?
2158 2010-12-05 21:04:58 baxter- has joined
2159 2010-12-05 21:05:01 <lolcat> I am uncertain
2160 2010-12-05 21:05:18 <xelister_> what operating system?
2161 2010-12-05 21:05:39 <lolcat> Ubuntu 10.10
2162 2010-12-05 21:06:26 <xelister_> paste output of: lspci | grep -i vga it shows graphics card model
2163 2010-12-05 21:07:20 <lolcat> Intel GM965/GL960
2164 2010-12-05 21:07:57 <xelister_> it is not minable
2165 2010-12-05 21:08:17 <xelister_> only radeons 5xxx, 6xxx and most powerfull nvidias 3xx, 4xx make sense for mining
2166 2010-12-05 21:08:51 <xelister_> you could mine with cpu, but it is too slow (1 block of 50 coins per like few months)
2167 2010-12-05 21:09:09 <xelister_> so best option is to just buy the coins. 50 coins is around 20-25 usd
2168 2010-12-05 21:09:35 <AAA_awright> Kiba: Just to rub it in, I could have
2169 2010-12-05 21:09:54 <AAA_awright> We were talking about it here in this channel
2170 2010-12-05 21:09:58 <AAA_awright> And http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1884.0
2171 2010-12-05 21:10:06 <AAA_awright> Dated November 22, 2010
2172 2010-12-05 21:10:17 <[Noodles]> it's about half of that, xelister and even radeon 4xxx and older 8600/9600 nvidia cards will work
2173 2010-12-05 21:10:29 <ArtForz> for small values of "work"
2174 2010-12-05 21:11:04 <xelister_> [Noodles]: with 4xxx and the older ones, it is much more sante to just buy it, then to waste time and effort
2175 2010-12-05 21:11:20 <ArtForz> older nvidias are inefficient enough that you're better off throwing a bunch of Phenom X6s at it if you have to pay for power
2176 2010-12-05 21:11:27 <xelister_> price is at 2.0 again? meh
2177 2010-12-05 21:11:55 Hogofwar has joined
2178 2010-12-05 21:11:57 <AAA_awright> Kiba: Do you know anything about Freenet?
2179 2010-12-05 21:12:08 <Kiba> not very much
2180 2010-12-05 21:12:19 <lolcat> 560v, how much would it be able to mine?
2181 2010-12-05 21:12:25 <lolcat> I don't pay for electricity
2182 2010-12-05 21:12:31 <xelister_> 560v ?
2183 2010-12-05 21:12:39 <[Noodles]> true, but some might just have a card laying around, not some Phenoms ^.^ if you have to buy hardware anyway, get a bigger one
2184 2010-12-05 21:12:49 <lolcat> xelister_: Radeon HD 560v
2185 2010-12-05 21:12:55 <xelister_> AAA_awright: do you have any question?
2186 2010-12-05 21:13:42 <ArtForz> 560v ... 320 ALUs @ 550MHz
2187 2010-12-05 21:14:11 <ArtForz> same as a 5550, ~40Mh/s
2188 2010-12-05 21:14:30 <lolcat> How much time does it use?
2189 2010-12-05 21:14:40 <AAA_awright> xelister_: Two ideas I'm musing on; implementing a bitcoin-micropayments system, and a social networking platform for microblogging/posting personal photos to share with friends (only), whatever else people waste their time on
2190 2010-12-05 21:14:41 <xelister_> ArtForz: does it have same instr. set as 5xxx?
2191 2010-12-05 21:14:48 <ArtForz> yep, it's a 5xxx
2192 2010-12-05 21:15:03 <xelister_> ok then what ArtForz said
2193 2010-12-05 21:15:04 <ArtForz> errr. wait
2194 2010-12-05 21:15:11 <ArtForz> it's a RV730
2195 2010-12-05 21:15:15 <Kiba> theymos sure understand a lot of the code
2196 2010-12-05 21:15:15 <xelister_> its a mobility
2197 2010-12-05 21:15:28 <ArtForz> fucking rebadge 4xxx
2198 2010-12-05 21:15:44 <lolcat> ;;bc,calc 40000
2199 2010-12-05 21:15:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes, and 29 seconds
2200 2010-12-05 21:15:54 <xelister_> ArtForz: actually wiki says 320 @ 800
2201 2010-12-05 21:16:13 <ArtForz> 800 is mem clock
2202 2010-12-05 21:16:14 <xelister_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units
2203 2010-12-05 21:16:20 <ArtForz> core clock is 550
2204 2010-12-05 21:16:23 <xelister_> wait, ritgh.
2205 2010-12-05 21:16:53 <ArtForz> so a 4xxx 320SP 550MHz ... 26.5Mh/s
2206 2010-12-05 21:17:07 <Kiba> so ArtForz, what do you think of #BitDNS?
2207 2010-12-05 21:17:08 <xelister_> ;;bc,calc 26000
2208 2010-12-05 21:17:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 26000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 10 hours, 40 minutes, and 45 seconds
2209 2010-12-05 21:17:19 <lolcat> How much will a 6870 give compared to 5850?
2210 2010-12-05 21:17:21 xelister_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2211 2010-12-05 21:17:22 Lysacor has joined
2212 2010-12-05 21:17:34 <ArtForz> roughly the same
2213 2010-12-05 21:17:39 xelister has joined
2214 2010-12-05 21:17:55 <ArtForz> 6870 ~232Mh/s, 5850 ~240
2215 2010-12-05 21:18:06 Insti has joined
2216 2010-12-05 21:18:49 <lolcat> ;;bc,calc 240 000
2217 2010-12-05 21:18:49 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2218 2010-12-05 21:19:46 <lolcat> ArtForz: Isnt the 6870 much faster?
2219 2010-12-05 21:20:50 <[Noodles]> one might think so, but it's not
2220 2010-12-05 21:21:07 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 240000
2221 2010-12-05 21:21:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 240000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 day, 16 hours, 9 minutes, and 24 seconds
2222 2010-12-05 21:21:15 <ArtForz> for 3D, yes, for mining, no
2223 2010-12-05 21:22:24 <lolcat> Then I will get first one 5850, and then if it pays off, Ill buy another 5850 to double the speed
2224 2010-12-05 21:22:58 <ArtForz> 6870 has more ROPs and fixed-function hardware than 5850, which improves 3D perf quite a bit, but raw shader perf is a bit < 5850
2225 2010-12-05 21:23:51 <lolcat> What would be the best one to buy for mining? price vs capacity, and wich would have the fastest speed possible in a single card?
2226 2010-12-05 21:24:21 <ArtForz> fastest affordable single card is still HD5970
2227 2010-12-05 21:24:40 <ArtForz> fastest card period is the various AIB 5870x2 cards
2228 2010-12-05 21:24:48 sblom has joined
2229 2010-12-05 21:25:12 <Hogofwar> how do i download the svn from ubuntu?
2230 2010-12-05 21:25:20 <[Noodles]> i think i'm ordering a 2nd 5850 tomorrow, i'll need another PSU too though
2231 2010-12-05 21:25:29 <ArtForz> if you have to pay for the rest of the hardware 5970 is a good bet, for card alone best Mh/$ is still 5770
2232 2010-12-05 21:25:41 <xelister> 5970 also sucks to mine
2233 2010-12-05 21:25:52 <xelister> diablo miner has problems with it, so do m0m's
2234 2010-12-05 21:26:11 <ArtForz> I dont have any probs
2235 2010-12-05 21:26:36 <ArtForz> just stay away from SDK2.2
2236 2010-12-05 21:27:32 <xelister> on sdk 2.1
2237 2010-12-05 21:27:39 <xelister> diablos miner sucks a huge donkey cock
2238 2010-12-05 21:27:43 <ArtForz> weird
2239 2010-12-05 21:28:00 <xelister> on catalyst 10.11, it generates at 50% speed (it reports 530, but half of blocks are invalid)
2240 2010-12-05 21:28:06 <xelister> erm wait
2241 2010-12-05 21:28:15 <xelister> on catalyst 10.09/.10 (ubuntu), it generates at 50% speed (it reports 530, but half of blocks are invalid)
2242 2010-12-05 21:28:21 <ArtForz> that sounds like crossfire is enabled
2243 2010-12-05 21:28:21 <lolcat> 5770 < 5850?
2244 2010-12-05 21:28:31 <xelister> on catalyst 10.11, it generates at 25% speed !!!!! (it reports 230, AND half of blocks are invalid)
2245 2010-12-05 21:28:41 <xelister> ArtForz: yeah we know, checked milion times
2246 2010-12-05 21:28:45 <ArtForz> I run cat 10.9 and 10.10, no invalid blocks
2247 2010-12-05 21:28:49 <ArtForz> sdk 2.1
2248 2010-12-05 21:28:58 <xelister> ArtForz: I run some shitty 10.10-beta from ubuntu
2249 2010-12-05 21:29:42 <ArtForz> and I'm pretty sure I'd notice losing half hashrate
2250 2010-12-05 21:31:06 <ArtForz> 5770 = about 150Mh/s
2251 2010-12-05 21:31:32 <lolcat> 5850 = about 240Mh/s ?
2252 2010-12-05 21:31:46 <ArtForz> yep
2253 2010-12-05 21:31:49 <Lysacor> Sure beats my Nvidia GTS 250 at 32Mh/s...
2254 2010-12-05 21:32:03 <ArtForz> 5870 310, 5970 530
2255 2010-12-05 21:32:20 <ArtForz> GTX580 ... 120
2256 2010-12-05 21:32:36 <ArtForz> 5750 115
2257 2010-12-05 21:32:39 <Lysacor> Any notes on windows users of m0m's users on windows and ATi SDK versions?
2258 2010-12-05 21:32:55 <Lysacor> m0m's GPU clients* sorry
2259 2010-12-05 21:33:11 <ArtForz> kinda funny, nvidias biggest card is a tad faster than a 5750 ...
2260 2010-12-05 21:33:24 <Lysacor> and too expensive :P
2261 2010-12-05 21:33:43 <ArtForz> and 250W... 5750 is 85W
2262 2010-12-05 21:34:08 doublec_ is now known as doublec
2263 2010-12-05 21:34:08 doublec has quit (Changing host)
2264 2010-12-05 21:34:08 doublec has joined
2265 2010-12-05 21:34:10 <Lysacor> wow... yeah that is a serious deficiency in Nvidia cards
2266 2010-12-05 21:35:14 <ArtForz> and it's not even a specific problem, it's lacking raw shader throughput
2267 2010-12-05 21:35:28 alex5771_ has joined
2268 2010-12-05 21:36:14 <lolcat> Does the mining require a lot of transfer speed between the gpu and mobo?
2269 2010-12-05 21:36:21 <ArtForz> nope
2270 2010-12-05 21:36:32 <lolcat> Would x8 work?
2271 2010-12-05 21:36:49 <ArtForz> I got a 0.4% drop from PCIe 2.0 x16 to PCIe 1.0 x4
2272 2010-12-05 21:37:16 <[Noodles]> Lysacor: i'm running m0's on windows, cc10.10 sdk2.2, nothing special, no probs
2273 2010-12-05 21:37:16 <lolcat> Woho, then I could stick 4 of them in my new computer xD
2274 2010-12-05 21:37:22 <ArtForz> most of my 5970s are running at x8
2275 2010-12-05 21:37:26 <alex5771_> anybody on Macbook pro?
2276 2010-12-05 21:37:42 <Lysacor> awesome, thanks Noodles.
2277 2010-12-05 21:37:50 <lolcat> My other laptop is getting 71 khash/s xD
2278 2010-12-05 21:38:24 <ArtForz> AMD [7|8]90FX chipset can only do x16/x16, x16/x8/x8 or x8/x8/x8/x8
2279 2010-12-05 21:38:44 <ArtForz> = all my quad 5970 boxes are running at x8
2280 2010-12-05 21:38:46 <lolcat> ArtForz: If you have the rest of the computer, would it be a good investment to buy gpus?
2281 2010-12-05 21:39:09 <lolcat> Would I get the money invested in gpus back within a fair amount of time?
2282 2010-12-05 21:39:10 <ArtForz> depends on difficulty growth and changes in price
2283 2010-12-05 21:40:03 <Lysacor> I am just scared of the electric bill after building such a beast :P
2284 2010-12-05 21:40:08 <ArtForz> difficulty still seems to be growing about x1.4 every 10 days
2285 2010-12-05 21:40:13 <Kiba> you want higher price, which implies a growing economy
2286 2010-12-05 21:40:23 <Kiba> hmm..
2287 2010-12-05 21:40:28 <Kiba> .....
2288 2010-12-05 21:40:36 <xelister> ArtForz: could you help us debug diablo's miner?
2289 2010-12-05 21:40:48 <xelister> or.. anyone here have a 5970? best, on ubuntu
2290 2010-12-05 21:41:06 <lolcat> I am planning to buy a far too much computer anyways, I migth as well use it for mining
2291 2010-12-05 21:41:19 <ArtForz> how are you running multiple GPUs?
2292 2010-12-05 21:41:24 <alex5771_> on my Mac Boomk pro 2.26Ghz i am getting about 600 kh/sec,however on my lenovo Thinkpas T60 roughly the same spec i belive i am getting about 2000Kh/sec xan anybody explain the descepancy?
2293 2010-12-05 21:41:36 <xelister> 5970 + ubuntu 10.10 x64 + catalyst/fglrx from ubuntu + sdk = FAIL, just 215M (generates 50% of coins wrong out of reproted speed 530M)
2294 2010-12-05 21:41:43 <ArtForz> = tried setting DISPLAY and running a seperate miner for each GPU?
2295 2010-12-05 21:41:54 <xelister> 5970 + ubuntu 10.10 x64 + catalyst/fglrx from ubuntu + sdk2.1 + daiblo miner(git) = FAIL, just 215M (generates 50% of coins wrong out of reproted speed 530M)
2296 2010-12-05 21:42:12 <xelister> same on sdk2.2, just it easts 400% cpu time
2297 2010-12-05 21:42:31 <ArtForz> 2.2 = FAIL with any multiGPU setup
2298 2010-12-05 21:42:33 <xelister> 5970 + ubuntu 10.10 x64 + catalyst/fglrx 10.11 (binary) + sdk2.1 + daiblo miner(git) = FAIL, just 115M !!! (generates 50% of coins wrong out of reproted speed 230M)
2299 2010-12-05 21:42:40 <xelister> same on sdk 2.2 just eats 400% cpu
2300 2010-12-05 21:43:04 <xelister> ArtForz: how exactly? on diablos?
2301 2010-12-05 21:43:18 <ArtForz> I don't rememebr how diablos selects GPUs for mining
2302 2010-12-05 21:44:49 <ArtForz> does it allow you to specify a OCL device index to use?
2303 2010-12-05 21:45:28 <xelister> it runs on all gpu
2304 2010-12-05 21:45:35 <ArtForz> yeah, thats asking for trouble
2305 2010-12-05 21:45:42 <xelister> why
2306 2010-12-05 21:45:52 <ArtForz> beacuse ATIs openCL runtime is retarded
2307 2010-12-05 21:46:24 alex5771_ has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2308 2010-12-05 21:46:42 <xelister> so what is the solution?
2309 2010-12-05 21:46:46 <xelister> separate processes?
2310 2010-12-05 21:46:52 <Hogofwar> How di i compile the svn on ubundu?
2311 2010-12-05 21:46:54 alex5771_ has joined
2312 2010-12-05 21:46:55 <Hogofwar> *ubuntu
2313 2010-12-05 21:46:56 <ArtForz> run a seperate miner process for each GPU
2314 2010-12-05 21:47:30 <ArtForz> start term, export DISPLAY=:0.0, start miner from that term
2315 2010-12-05 21:47:32 <xelister> Hogofwar: for ubuntu or win?
2316 2010-12-05 21:47:39 <Hogofwar> For ubuntu
2317 2010-12-05 21:47:43 <ArtForz> it should only use the firts GPU
2318 2010-12-05 21:47:50 <ArtForz> start another term, export DISPLAY=:0.1, start another miner fro mthere
2319 2010-12-05 21:48:01 <ArtForz> that one uses the 2nd gpu
2320 2010-12-05 21:48:11 <ArtForz> repeat for as many GPUs as you have
2321 2010-12-05 21:48:12 <alex5771_> is there a command line client for mac OS X?
2322 2010-12-05 21:49:01 <lolcat> Does the bitcoin client use gtk?
2323 2010-12-05 21:49:45 <theymos> lolcat: No. Wxwidgets.
2324 2010-12-05 21:50:42 <lolcat> Wonder if that is maemo compatible
2325 2010-12-05 21:50:52 <nanotube> alex5771_: bitcoind, should be there in the osx distribution
2326 2010-12-05 21:51:49 <fedorared> I don't find a bitcoind in the app bundle
2327 2010-12-05 21:51:56 <alex5771_> yea not there
2328 2010-12-05 21:52:34 <nanotube> ah... in that case, dunno... :)
2329 2010-12-05 21:52:35 <fedorared> The executable takes the options of coures
2330 2010-12-05 21:52:47 <alex5771_> whats the sinplest way,with least # of intermidiaries to get bitcoins out of a credit card?
2331 2010-12-05 21:53:03 <nanotube> alex5771_: bitcoingateway.com
2332 2010-12-05 21:53:07 <alex5771_> fedorared:u have Mac?
2333 2010-12-05 21:53:13 <fedorared> Yes.
2334 2010-12-05 21:53:20 <alex5771_> bitcoingateway.com:what type?
2335 2010-12-05 21:53:23 <alex5771_> sorry
2336 2010-12-05 21:53:43 <alex5771_> fedorared:what kind of mac u have?
2337 2010-12-05 21:54:27 <fedorared> Custom built hackintosh desktop. Don't tell Steve.
2338 2010-12-05 21:55:07 <fedorared> Also a MacBook
2339 2010-12-05 21:55:24 <Hogofwar> for wxwidgets do i HAVE to use 2.9.0
2340 2010-12-05 21:55:25 <alex5771_> fedorared:what MacBook u have?
2341 2010-12-05 21:55:30 <Hogofwar> or can i use 2.9.1
2342 2010-12-05 21:55:40 <theymos> Hogofwar: You have to use 2.9.0. No other version works.
2343 2010-12-05 21:55:49 <Hogofwar> i can't find it
2344 2010-12-05 21:55:55 <Hogofwar> Can someone link me to it?
2345 2010-12-05 21:56:52 <fedorared> alex5771_: Aluminum core2 from maybe a year ago. Doesn't really matter bitcoin should work on intel
2346 2010-12-05 21:57:32 <alex5771_> fedorared:what CPU Mhz,and how many kh/sec u getting i am trying to compare with mine
2347 2010-12-05 21:57:58 <fedorared> I don't generate on the laptop
2348 2010-12-05 21:58:25 <theymos> Hogofwar: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wxwindows/files/ (Click one of the platforms, like wxMSW)
2349 2010-12-05 21:58:40 <ArtForz> btw, either I'm just really unlucky or AMD and AIBs are scraping the bottom of the barrel for cypress chips
2350 2010-12-05 21:58:48 <Hogofwar> I need it for ubuntu
2351 2010-12-05 21:58:50 <fedorared> Two i7 2.7 GHz cores is ~1500 khash/s
2352 2010-12-05 21:59:35 <fedorared> Related, I last generated a block in October
2353 2010-12-05 21:59:36 <ArtForz> my last 8 5970s run about 7-8°C hotter than prev cards and OC a lot worse
2354 2010-12-05 21:59:50 <lolcat> fedorared: I am getting 1600 at 2ghz dual core intel
2355 2010-12-05 22:00:14 <lolcat> Is there plans for a arm port? Can I compile it myself?
2356 2010-12-05 22:01:15 <alex5771_> fedorared:i have 2.2Ghz Cor2Duo and i am getting like 600kh/sec which is too low,any ideas why?
2357 2010-12-05 22:01:25 vfo has joined
2358 2010-12-05 22:01:37 Lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2359 2010-12-05 22:01:42 vfo has left ()
2360 2010-12-05 22:02:03 <fedorared> alex5771_: Check your generation preferences, otherwise no clue
2361 2010-12-05 22:03:07 <fedorared> You do realize that:
2362 2010-12-05 22:03:11 <fedorared> ;;bc,calc 1500
2363 2010-12-05 22:03:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 38 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 6 minutes, and 29 seconds
2364 2010-12-05 22:03:31 <Lysacor> ouch...
2365 2010-12-05 22:03:46 <alex5771_> what is Liberty Reserve wghat do they do?
2366 2010-12-05 22:04:57 <alex5771_> so the way coins are created out of the blue is by generating blocks,other words signing some transactions?
2367 2010-12-05 22:05:55 <fedorared> alex5771_: A currency, and yes
2368 2010-12-05 22:06:29 <alex5771_> fedorared:sp Liberty Reserve is online CEntralized currency?
2369 2010-12-05 22:07:05 <lolcat> Can I compile bitcoin to ARM prosessors?
2370 2010-12-05 22:07:52 <fedorared> alex5771_: I don't know much about them but that's how I understand it yes
2371 2010-12-05 22:08:00 <fedorared> lolcat: Not at this time
2372 2010-12-05 22:09:59 <lolcat> Doh :S
2373 2010-12-05 22:10:08 <lolcat> I want bitcoins on my phone
2374 2010-12-05 22:10:21 <alex5771_> whats the story with bitdns,any work getting done on it?
2375 2010-12-05 22:10:24 <lolcat> I guess I could write a bitcoin bank, and transfer through a webui to it
2376 2010-12-05 22:11:02 <fedorared> There's been some design discussion around a mobile api
2377 2010-12-05 22:11:22 <lolcat> It should be android, and maemo apps for it
2378 2010-12-05 22:11:47 <lolcat> I am thinking, if you want to use it in real-life scenarios
2379 2010-12-05 22:12:45 ciuciu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2380 2010-12-05 22:12:53 <Kiba> alex5771_: none, as far as I know.
2381 2010-12-05 22:13:31 <alex5771_> difinatly a way to ride this whole wikileaks affair to improove bitcoin
2382 2010-12-05 22:14:51 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2383 2010-12-05 22:15:40 <Kiba> we're not petitioning wikileaks anymore as far as I know.
2384 2010-12-05 22:15:53 <Kiba> in fact, Satoshi petitioned wikileaks not to adopt bitcoin
2385 2010-12-05 22:16:37 <lolcat> Why not?
2386 2010-12-05 22:16:53 <lolcat> And why don't he like loans with bitcoins?
2387 2010-12-05 22:16:56 <Kiba> danger of destroying the bitcoin project at such an early stage
2388 2010-12-05 22:17:07 <Kiba> don't forget, the post-slashdot bitcoin community is only 5 months old
2389 2010-12-05 22:18:14 <ArtForz> probably because currently being associated with wikileaks == painting a big target on bitcoin
2390 2010-12-05 22:18:28 <Hogofwar> Yes
2391 2010-12-05 22:18:29 <Kiba> ArtForz: pledge some money for BitDNS?
2392 2010-12-05 22:18:38 <Hogofwar> Bit dns is interesting
2393 2010-12-05 22:18:58 <Hogofwar> How are they planning to make acquiring domain names work?
2394 2010-12-05 22:19:06 <Kiba> you buy from a miner
2395 2010-12-05 22:19:12 <Hogofwar> >_>
2396 2010-12-05 22:19:25 <Kiba> first come first serve.
2397 2010-12-05 22:20:03 <Hogofwar> Can't we just use our bitcoins into the nodes to try and buy a particular name and if it isn't available you get refunded but if it is you get the name
2398 2010-12-05 22:20:06 <Hogofwar> meh
2399 2010-12-05 22:20:13 jrabbit has joined
2400 2010-12-05 22:23:03 <alex5771_> I mean to ride wikileaks not buy giving them money,but to ride the paranoia in DNS system,by providing p2p dns similar to bitcoinds, Say i want a name X,and paying for it 10BTC,people who make blocks for that name and verify it,get a cut of that 10BTC
2401 2010-12-05 22:23:47 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2402 2010-12-05 22:23:58 <Kiba> if you have money, please pledge a little bit
2403 2010-12-05 22:24:01 <Kiba> it all helps
2404 2010-12-05 22:24:09 <Kiba> even if it isn't enough to compensate the developers
2405 2010-12-05 22:24:26 <Kiba> I also asked a really famous dude to help...
2406 2010-12-05 22:35:16 <joe_1> when is dns coming
2407 2010-12-05 22:35:29 <Kiba> whenever a hacker decide to do the project
2408 2010-12-05 22:35:39 <Kiba> otherwise, pledge some bitcoins
2409 2010-12-05 22:35:51 <joe_1> doesnt it require dns servers? a network of dns servers or something?
2410 2010-12-05 22:38:43 <Kiba> joe_1: I thought we each have a copy..or use somebody as a DNS server.
2411 2010-12-05 22:39:34 <[Noodles]> it's like with coins, isnt it? you're your own dns-server, as long as you got the whole chain, you know who owns a domain
2412 2010-12-05 22:40:22 <joe_1> brb
2413 2010-12-05 22:41:36 <Kiba> Yes, and will you contribute to the project?
2414 2010-12-05 22:43:28 <[Noodles]> like help coding it? i wish i could ^.^
2415 2010-12-05 22:43:54 <Kiba> pledge some bitcoin, [Noodles]
2416 2010-12-05 22:44:04 <[Noodles]> i will
2417 2010-12-05 22:45:57 <alex5771_> from what i undertand there is on avergae a constant amount of bitcoins created per minute,right?
2418 2010-12-05 22:46:32 <MT`AwAy> alex5771_: per 10 minutes, yes
2419 2010-12-05 22:46:36 <[Noodles]> 50coin every 10minutes, that's the goal
2420 2010-12-05 22:46:44 <MT`AwAy> for the first 4 years
2421 2010-12-05 22:47:11 Hogofwar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2422 2010-12-05 22:47:32 <alex5771_> ok,as more people sign up we always try to keep that goal by tech means,so with increase in demand and constant supply,the BTC should increase in value?
2423 2010-12-05 22:48:08 <[Noodles]> that's what we all hope for
2424 2010-12-05 22:49:08 <alex5771_> so now it makes perfect sense for people to hord the coins,and not spend them on things since u have a good chnace that they increase in value?
2425 2010-12-05 22:49:09 <MT`AwAy> (especially those who boughts lots of gpu)
2426 2010-12-05 22:49:34 <Kiba> alex5771_: that depend on the growth of the economy
2427 2010-12-05 22:50:05 <[Noodles]> it's still a risky investment, no matter what
2428 2010-12-05 22:50:20 <MT`AwAy> alex5771_: people who keep bitcoins are betting on bitcoin's value increase, but it's a risk they take
2429 2010-12-05 22:50:46 <Kiba> it's the risk for those who blaze pioneering path
2430 2010-12-05 22:51:02 <Kiba> too bad, many of our anarchist comrade are content sitting around complaining about government
2431 2010-12-05 22:51:05 <MT`AwAy> but by keeping bitcoins they help the economy's value increase
2432 2010-12-05 22:51:39 <MT`AwAy> (if they sell as soon as they mine they force the economy to stay low)
2433 2010-12-05 22:51:54 <alex5771_> yes,but its fairly low risk,cause if u controlling supply yo 1 block each 10minutes no matter advanced in cpu power u still will keep to that arte techncly,but u getting more people,so it seems likel a pretty good bet
2434 2010-12-05 22:52:34 <[Noodles]> that's why i'm still investing
2435 2010-12-05 22:53:02 <brocktice> low price = good time to buy
2436 2010-12-05 22:53:11 <[Noodles]> i bought at 6cents, i still buy at 22cents ^.^
2437 2010-12-05 22:53:22 <alex5771_> i think its very important to get "legitimate" busines son the bandwagon to accept this stuff,why legit,so we dont end up with bittorent problem with ppl saying yeah MOST of trafic their is piracy n not to give ammo to gov etc.. to fight againt BTC
2438 2010-12-05 22:53:30 <[Noodles]> and in SL even for 25cent
2439 2010-12-05 22:53:31 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: mining contributes very little to price
2440 2010-12-05 22:53:53 <[Noodles]> although noone's selling in SL
2441 2010-12-05 22:54:10 <[Noodles]> besides me of course *lol
2442 2010-12-05 22:54:43 <MT`AwAy> brocktice: if someone mines 1000 btc/day and sells those on mtgox for the lowest price, they will contribute
2443 2010-12-05 22:55:03 <MT`AwAy> [Noodles]: SL ?
2444 2010-12-05 22:55:11 <[Noodles]> Second Life
2445 2010-12-05 22:55:14 <MT`AwAy> oh
2446 2010-12-05 22:56:03 <MT`AwAy> well here I'm having issues too, I sell web hosting, vps & domains for bitcoins, but I'll need a way to convert bitcoins back to a currency I can use to pay for servers & domains
2447 2010-12-05 22:56:46 <Kiba> yen?
2448 2010-12-05 22:56:55 <lolcat> My issue is I cant give someone my credit card numbers and convert it to bitcoins
2449 2010-12-05 22:57:00 <[Noodles]> i pay L$66 per coin right now, that's about 25cents, better to sell to me than on mtgox ^.~
2450 2010-12-05 22:57:34 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: anything is fine as long as it comes to me without too much fees
2451 2010-12-05 22:58:50 <MT`AwAy> lolcat: that's because nobody can know for sure that the transaction will really happen and not be cancelled in the next 6 months
2452 2010-12-05 22:59:35 <lolcat> [Noodles]: L$ is ez to exchange for real currency at the linden exchange, rigth? What ways do they offer to pay out?
2453 2010-12-05 22:59:59 <lolcat> MT`AwAy: Because you can't prove you transfered the bitcoins to me?
2454 2010-12-05 23:00:22 <[Noodles]> i trade L$ on VirWox.com only, better rates than on the lindeX
2455 2010-12-05 23:00:50 <lolcat> [Noodles]: How are you able to withdraw the money on VirWox?
2456 2010-12-05 23:00:56 <MT`AwAy> lolcat: I can provide no proof that your credit card company or bank will accept
2457 2010-12-05 23:01:08 <[Noodles]> paypal, bankwire, havent tried CC yet
2458 2010-12-05 23:01:27 <[Noodles]> they offer a bunch of options
2459 2010-12-05 23:01:52 <lolcat> So I can get 0,25 from you
2460 2010-12-05 23:02:05 <lolcat> And I can buy then for 0,2249
2461 2010-12-05 23:02:16 <[Noodles]> uhu
2462 2010-12-05 23:03:00 <alex5771_> MT`AwAy:the difficulaty gets adjusted and u wont be able to keep mining 1000 for too long making it more diffuclt,sowhat will happen is u probably can depress prices temporary,but as diffulty will spike up, price will go up again
2463 2010-12-05 23:03:28 <[Noodles]> well, that's right now, i'll adjust my rates to the market, but i'm lazy too
2464 2010-12-05 23:03:43 <alex5771_> MT`AwAy:thats the way i undertand,btc has build it anti-inflationary measures
2465 2010-12-05 23:03:44 <[Noodles]> and willing to pay 25cents
2466 2010-12-05 23:03:57 <lolcat> How much are you willing to buy?
2467 2010-12-05 23:04:03 <Kiba> for now, there's massive inflation...
2468 2010-12-05 23:04:05 <Kiba> monentary inflation
2469 2010-12-05 23:04:37 <redMBA> where is this inflation you speak of?
2470 2010-12-05 23:04:56 <[Noodles]> at thze moment theres ~50.000L$ available, i've got some more though
2471 2010-12-05 23:05:04 <fedorared> Massive fluctuation in exchange rates
2472 2010-12-05 23:05:27 <[Noodles]> so it'll just be a matter of minutes if you want more
2473 2010-12-05 23:06:56 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: calculate what percentage of total bitcoins 1000 is
2474 2010-12-05 23:07:04 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: and then also compare that against daily volume on mtgox
2475 2010-12-05 23:07:12 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: It's just a drop in the bucket
2476 2010-12-05 23:07:13 <MT`AwAy> brocktice: 7200 btc/day are generated
2477 2010-12-05 23:07:18 <MT`AwAy> and most are in Art & m0's hands
2478 2010-12-05 23:07:22 <brocktice> 0.15% of total
2479 2010-12-05 23:07:43 <brocktice> mining has little to no influence on market prices now
2480 2010-12-05 23:07:54 <brocktice> there are much larger forces at play
2481 2010-12-05 23:07:58 <MT`AwAy> brocktice: because miners keep their coins
2482 2010-12-05 23:08:03 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: nope
2483 2010-12-05 23:08:18 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: BECAUSE IT'S A SMALL DAMN PERCENTAGE OF THE TRADE VOLUME
2484 2010-12-05 23:08:26 <lolcat> I have to figure out the fees
2485 2010-12-05 23:09:04 Lysacor has quit ()
2486 2010-12-05 23:10:08 <lolcat> because if [Noodles] is willing to pay 0.25 cents, I should get the price on mtgox up to that level
2487 2010-12-05 23:11:17 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2488 2010-12-05 23:12:06 <MT`AwAy> here I've been using mtgox's ticker as a base to display prices in bitcoins, but because the value went down I got expensive bitcoins in my wallet
2489 2010-12-05 23:21:38 <lolcat> I dont get the diffence between buy and sell price, is people buying at 2,2249 and selling at 1,8?
2490 2010-12-05 23:21:57 <fedorared> The reverse
2491 2010-12-05 23:22:10 <lolcat> Ahh
2492 2010-12-05 23:22:14 <lolcat> Then I understand
2493 2010-12-05 23:22:47 <fedorared> You'll notice last price falls between them
2494 2010-12-05 23:26:51 baxter- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2495 2010-12-05 23:26:52 <redMBA> does mtgox still average the difference?
2496 2010-12-05 23:29:11 <lolcat> [Noodles]: I want to sell 160 bitcoins
2497 2010-12-05 23:30:10 Insti has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
2498 2010-12-05 23:30:37 Insti has joined
2499 2010-12-05 23:30:55 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2500 2010-12-05 23:33:13 <[Noodles]> it's automated, just grab my HUD from http://bitlex.co.cc/getHUD.php
2501 2010-12-05 23:35:48 <lolcat> I'm not getting the HUD
2502 2010-12-05 23:36:32 <Kiba> we broke 0.19
2503 2010-12-05 23:37:22 <joe_1> i guess the game's over
2504 2010-12-05 23:37:48 <[Noodles]> hmm, i get it, are you inworld? what's your name, i'll send it
2505 2010-12-05 23:38:18 <lolcat> [Noodles]: xae8koo Wolfhunter
2506 2010-12-05 23:40:17 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2507 2010-12-05 23:41:06 <joe_1> i guess i'll go sell off the rest of my coins. looks like bitcoin is going back down to 0.05 where all the formulas predict that it really SHOULD be right now based on market size.
2508 2010-12-05 23:45:19 <joe_1> im trying to move the market so i can buy them at 0.05
2509 2010-12-05 23:46:20 acous has joined
2510 2010-12-05 23:47:04 <lolcat> joe_1: What formulas?
2511 2010-12-05 23:47:32 <lolcat> Maan it is slow to get one confirmation now
2512 2010-12-05 23:48:44 <joe_1> i made it up because i want the market to drop so i can buy.
2513 2010-12-05 23:48:54 <joe_1> i'll run the velocity formula really quick and let you know what it says.
2514 2010-12-05 23:50:17 <joe_1> the velocity formula says the price should be at 0.028
2515 2010-12-05 23:51:12 <MT`AwAy> joe_1: that's called market manipulation
2516 2010-12-05 23:51:12 <MT`AwAy> :p
2517 2010-12-05 23:51:38 <MT`AwAy> unfortunately for bitcoins, there's no authority to stop that, so we'll just have to be intelligent enough
2518 2010-12-05 23:52:01 <Kiba> we are a puny economy
2519 2010-12-05 23:52:46 <joe_1> im not making up the 0.028 but the 0.19 may simply be a prediction of future velocity which would make it valid
2520 2010-12-05 23:53:11 <joe_1> in other words people are predicting that in the next several years the bitcoin economy will be 7 times bigger than it is now. which is certainly reasonable