1 2010-12-07 00:00:08 <midnightmagic> i wonder how many bitcoins have gone permanently missing through lost wallets?
   2 2010-12-07 00:00:09 <lolcat> No, I just want a easy way to invest, and devest in bitcoins
   3 2010-12-07 00:00:14 fedorared has left ()
   4 2010-12-07 00:01:16 <Zarutian> I wish I could set the khash rate, I wouldnt mind generating a block at 100 khash if it means lower noise from my laptop
   5 2010-12-07 00:01:43 <Xunie> Zarutian, what OS are you using?
   6 2010-12-07 00:01:51 <Zarutian> MacOS X
   7 2010-12-07 00:01:54 <Xunie> Also: Bitcoin on a laptop? Bad idea. :/
   8 2010-12-07 00:02:09 <Zarutian> only comp I have operational
   9 2010-12-07 00:02:13 <Xunie> Ehh, does Darwin have some sort of /etc/security/ directory or something?
  10 2010-12-07 00:02:14 <[Noodles]> it's easy, just buy a nice GPU, or just coins, different pricing or difficulty doesnt make it any harder/easier
  11 2010-12-07 00:02:33 <lolcat> I have bitcoins on two laptops!
  12 2010-12-07 00:02:44 <bencoder> i have them all over :/
  13 2010-12-07 00:02:50 <Zarutian> Noodles: a bit hard to convert ISK to BTC
  14 2010-12-07 00:02:58 <bencoder> netbook, laptop, pc, 2 vps's :|
  15 2010-12-07 00:03:08 <midnightmagic> ISK? the eve-online currency?
  16 2010-12-07 00:03:11 <lolcat> ISK?
  17 2010-12-07 00:03:13 <midnightmagic> AWESOME! what an excellent idea..
  18 2010-12-07 00:03:18 <Zarutian> nope Icelandic Króna
  19 2010-12-07 00:03:22 <midnightmagic> oh.
  20 2010-12-07 00:03:25 <Diablo-D3> lol
  21 2010-12-07 00:03:29 <lolcat> Zarutian: Paypal?
  22 2010-12-07 00:03:40 <Zarutian> CCP little joke of calling its currency Inter Stellar Kredits
  23 2010-12-07 00:03:57 <midnightmagic> still a cool idea..
  24 2010-12-07 00:04:07 <Zarutian> lolcat: out of the option, had to close my account and block bank transfers to them
  25 2010-12-07 00:04:09 <lolcat> I think it is ironic, the freeest money, requires the evilest company to get the currency
  26 2010-12-07 00:04:15 <lolcat> Zarutian: Why?
  27 2010-12-07 00:04:48 <Zarutian> lolcat: random fund freeze that occured at paypal
  28 2010-12-07 00:04:54 <lolcat> Zarutian: There were a guy paying 120BC for a "= dollar licence in #bitcoin-dev
  29 2010-12-07 00:04:59 <lolcat> 20*
  30 2010-12-07 00:05:07 <[Noodles]> not a requirement, lolcat, actually it's not even easy to get BTC with that evil companys cash
  31 2010-12-07 00:05:26 <[Noodles]> you still have to convert it
  32 2010-12-07 00:05:31 <Zarutian> lolcat: and I dont trust them after their antics with me, Wikileaks, Minecraft creator and many others pained by them.
  33 2010-12-07 00:05:42 <lolcat> I know
  34 2010-12-07 00:06:30 <lolcat> [Noodles]: I wish there were an easy way to buy on mtgox with a creditcard, and an easy way to sell and get the proceeds in my account
  35 2010-12-07 00:10:56 <[Noodles]> your not the only one, someone will come up with a solution sooner or later
  36 2010-12-07 00:11:04 <[Noodles]> maybe it's you ^.^
  37 2010-12-07 00:14:10 <lolcat> I wish I could code and had a stable host
  38 2010-12-07 00:14:22 <lolcat> I'd happily make and manage bank of bitcoin!
  39 2010-12-07 00:14:44 <ne0futur> I can provide a stable host if you have clean code
  40 2010-12-07 00:15:09 <tcatm> I can do the coding
  41 2010-12-07 00:15:43 <tcatm> Actually my current project involves writing a bitcoin bank
  42 2010-12-07 00:16:56 <[Noodles]> see? it's all there, you just have to take it
  43 2010-12-07 00:18:10 Kiba has joined
  44 2010-12-07 00:18:45 <ne0futur> (01:17) -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- MacRohard is not registered.
  45 2010-12-07 00:18:50 <ne0futur> oups sorry bad channel
  46 2010-12-07 00:18:51 <lolcat> Then we need a creditcard company that works in the US and Europe
  47 2010-12-07 00:19:22 <Zarutian> tcatm: a bitcoin bank?
  48 2010-12-07 00:20:07 <midnightmagic> i'd use it if there was an interest rate on a savings account. :-)
  49 2010-12-07 00:20:55 <tcatm> Zarutian: a service like mybitcoin
  50 2010-12-07 00:23:26 <nelisky> tcatm: I actually started one for sandboxing a few ideas... but ran out of free time
  51 2010-12-07 00:23:55 <nelisky> tcatm: get it going and I'll share these ideas, who knows maybe they are not all bad ;)
  52 2010-12-07 00:24:28 <tcatm> I'm still stuck at the android application.
  53 2010-12-07 00:24:40 <nelisky> hehe, and I'm still not helping, sorry
  54 2010-12-07 00:24:53 <nelisky> I'll get to that this week, or at least try very hard to
  55 2010-12-07 00:25:30 <lolcat> So I'll have to install android on my phone to use bitcoin on it in the future?
  56 2010-12-07 00:25:59 <tcatm> No. We could port it to other phones.
  57 2010-12-07 00:26:06 <lolcat> ARM?
  58 2010-12-07 00:26:33 <tcatm> Sure, as long as there's a good SDK.
  59 2010-12-07 00:27:51 <lolcat> ARM is a cpu artictechture
  60 2010-12-07 00:27:52 <nelisky> ARM is the architecture, not the OS
  61 2010-12-07 00:28:20 <lolcat> If you port the linux edition to ARM, my phone can run it :)
  62 2010-12-07 00:28:48 <tcatm> Just compile it :)
  63 2010-12-07 00:29:35 <lolcat> It would work? Don't you have to change 32 to ARM or something?
  64 2010-12-07 00:30:19 <tcatm> If your phone uses GTK or an X-Server it should work.
  65 2010-12-07 00:30:42 <lolcat> GTK yes, X-Server I dont know
  66 2010-12-07 00:30:53 <tcatm> What phone do you have?
  67 2010-12-07 00:30:59 <lolcat> Nokia N900
  68 2010-12-07 00:32:24 <tcatm> Should be easy to port.
  69 2010-12-07 00:32:53 <lolcat> So I can't just make -ARM bitcoin?
  70 2010-12-07 00:33:02 * lolcat has no idea how to use make or gcc
  71 2010-12-07 00:33:13 <tcatm> You need a toolchain.
  72 2010-12-07 00:33:25 <lolcat> Toolchain?
  73 2010-12-07 00:33:46 <tcatm> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_Existing_GTK%2B_Application_to_Maemo_5
  74 2010-12-07 00:35:39 <lolcat> That is just visual stuff?
  75 2010-12-07 00:35:53 <lolcat> I could just run it inside easy-debian
  76 2010-12-07 00:37:07 <tcatm> http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node13.html has more about porting
  77 2010-12-07 00:40:20 <lolcat> That is mamo 4 :P
  78 2010-12-07 00:40:36 <lolcat> And I can run any ARM program that dont require more ram/cpu than I have
  79 2010-12-07 00:40:54 <tcatm> Should still be similiar.
  80 2010-12-07 00:41:21 <xelister> Diablo-D3: brb
  81 2010-12-07 00:41:30 <doublec> I have an N900 too
  82 2010-12-07 00:41:38 <doublec> bitcoind should build ok on it
  83 2010-12-07 00:42:15 <Diablo-D3> =|
  84 2010-12-07 00:43:13 * doublec tries to build it
  85 2010-12-07 00:43:52 <doublec> Apparently the latest android release and NDK allows C apps
  86 2010-12-07 00:44:51 <doublec> "Includes a new toolchain (based on GCC 4.4.3), which generates better code, and can also now be used as a standalone cross-compiler, for people who want to build their stuff with ./configure && make. See docs/STANDALONE-TOOLCHAIN.html for the details. The binaries for GCC 4.4.0 are still provided, but the 4.2.1 binaries were removed."
  87 2010-12-07 00:45:28 <doublec> From the latest android NDK docs
  88 2010-12-07 00:48:06 <lolcat> doublec: Did it build?
  89 2010-12-07 00:48:20 <doublec> lolcat, downloading dependancies at the moment
  90 2010-12-07 00:52:19 <Kiba> lol, EFF message thanking bitcoin donors
  91 2010-12-07 00:52:27 <Kiba> and then it show "screwcapitalism"
  92 2010-12-07 00:52:28 <Kiba> LOL
  93 2010-12-07 00:52:34 <doublec> sadly the N900 SDK doesn't have recent packages for some of the dependancies (boost, libdb)
  94 2010-12-07 00:52:39 <doublec> I'll need to build them too
  95 2010-12-07 00:53:04 <bencoder> where's that, kiba?
  96 2010-12-07 00:53:14 <Kiba> bc-news
  97 2010-12-07 00:53:45 <Kiba> #bc-news
  98 2010-12-07 00:53:53 <Kiba> http://twitter.com/#!/screwcapitalism
  99 2010-12-07 00:54:02 <Kiba> apperantly, a retweet of EFF
 100 2010-12-07 00:54:18 <bencoder> oh right
 101 2010-12-07 00:54:31 <bencoder> well, that's not EFF at least
 102 2010-12-07 00:55:20 <Kiba> well, I am sure by this point, they had garned some serious changes
 103 2010-12-07 00:55:23 <Kiba> like 600 USD +
 104 2010-12-07 01:01:49 <xelister> Diablo-D3: ok I will run test
 105 2010-12-07 01:02:07 <xelister> can anyone with a 5970 please join the testnet?
 106 2010-12-07 01:02:23 <xelister> so I can compare my speed with others
 107 2010-12-07 01:08:12 DDevine has joined
 108 2010-12-07 01:08:21 <DDevine> Greetings.
 109 2010-12-07 01:08:31 <DDevine> Who do I email to get something added to the FAQ?
 110 2010-12-07 01:10:17 <Kiba> wee!
 111 2010-12-07 01:10:26 <DDevine> I can write both the question and answer.
 112 2010-12-07 01:10:36 <Kiba> we don't know what your question is
 113 2010-12-07 01:10:39 <Kiba> and your answer is
 114 2010-12-07 01:10:45 <Kiba> post on the forum
 115 2010-12-07 01:10:52 <Kiba> and somebody will surely notice it
 116 2010-12-07 01:11:23 <DDevine> But I am lazy and not even part of the community. I guess I'll just quickly join the mailing list.
 117 2010-12-07 01:11:52 <bencoder> there's a mailing list?
 118 2010-12-07 01:12:22 <DDevine> ah crap you guys don't have a mailing list?
 119 2010-12-07 01:12:32 <DDevine> Unusual.
 120 2010-12-07 01:12:33 <Kiba> Nope.
 121 2010-12-07 01:12:52 <Kiba> maybe we could implement a way anonymous people can post, like a bitcoin transaction?
 122 2010-12-07 01:13:34 <bencoder> DDevine: the forum is the FAQ :P
 123 2010-12-07 01:14:29 <Zarutian> Kiba: so a node that is reachable via an mixminion anonymouse remailer (often called type III anon remailer)?
 124 2010-12-07 01:15:19 <Kiba> don't know
 125 2010-12-07 01:15:24 <[Noodles]> the one to email would be sirius-m, i think
 126 2010-12-07 01:15:49 <Kiba> we need to organize a more comperhensive FAQ, methink
 127 2010-12-07 01:19:00 <Zarutian> Kiba: but posting the transaction anonymously wouldnt help if someone examining the block chain could connect the two btc-addrs' together
 128 2010-12-07 01:21:00 <DDevine> [Noodles]: Do you have an email address I can send to?
 129 2010-12-07 01:22:18 * Zarutian is, as always, accepting tips at 1MYWGLJfR7W1tMez8ZVkgo8MR8o9sWJpSi
 130 2010-12-07 01:25:27 <Kiba> bencoder: It would be nice to have a database of how much money I am making each day. Also a serect URL in case I need to download my own file?
 131 2010-12-07 01:26:28 <Kiba> DDevine: well, there's more to that, as I said on twitter
 132 2010-12-07 01:26:40 <Kiba> basically, bitcoin generation incentivize miners to process transactions
 133 2010-12-07 01:26:57 <Kiba> that's more improtant than coining money
 134 2010-12-07 01:27:06 <bencoder> Kiba: I have a record of all transactions, i just haven't made a view/interface for them yet
 135 2010-12-07 01:27:42 <CyanDynamo> "I'm  considering the possibility of an alt-currency not backed by a physical  commodity. Each unit would be a share of a pool of donated restitution  claims. We'd need a standard data format for claims, first and foremost.  Ideas on that?"
 136 2010-12-07 01:27:45 <CyanDynamo> lol
 137 2010-12-07 01:28:18 <bencoder> hehe
 138 2010-12-07 01:28:19 <Kiba> well folks
 139 2010-12-07 01:28:21 <jgarzik> A test version of cpuminer, with crypto++ 32-bit assembly implementation, has been pushed out to git, and a test installer for Windows uploaded at http://yyz.us/bitcoin/cpuminer-installer-0.2.2test.zip
 140 2010-12-07 01:28:23 <Kiba> WE JUST BROKE RECORD
 141 2010-12-07 01:28:45 <Kiba> 101 Most Online Today
 142 2010-12-07 01:28:49 <Kiba> we finally broke July record
 143 2010-12-07 01:28:54 <bencoder> wow
 144 2010-12-07 01:29:00 <OneFixt> 111?
 145 2010-12-07 01:31:06 <DDevine> Kiba: I don't use Twitter... Identi.ca just forwards stuff to my twitter account that I never log into :)
 146 2010-12-07 01:33:27 <DDevine> Gah teh twitter infrace is horrid!
 147 2010-12-07 01:33:35 <DDevine> and I can't type properly today
 148 2010-12-07 01:34:24 <Kiba> I think we got a wave of traffic somewhere
 149 2010-12-07 01:34:58 <Kiba> Twitter is hyperactive
 150 2010-12-07 01:35:20 <Diablo-D3> I dont use twitter
 151 2010-12-07 01:35:25 <Diablo-D3> I dont even have a twitter account
 152 2010-12-07 01:35:39 <Diablo-D3> I dont want to be confused with someone who cares what color the vomit your cat just hoarked up is
 153 2010-12-07 01:36:08 <DDevine> Twitter is freakin convoluted. Identi.ca/Statusnet is waaaaaay better.
 154 2010-12-07 01:36:12 <Diablo-D3> I also dont care what color Aston Kutcher's dick is (its orange, btw)
 155 2010-12-07 01:36:13 <DDevine> Its what Twitter should be.
 156 2010-12-07 01:36:32 <DDevine> Though yes, twitter is an orange dick.
 157 2010-12-07 01:37:16 xelister_ has joined
 158 2010-12-07 01:37:23 <Kiba> YOU ARE AN ORGANCEE DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOCK
 159 2010-12-07 01:37:37 <Kiba> blah blah balh
 160 2010-12-07 01:37:56 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: I don't read about color of the vomit
 161 2010-12-07 01:38:01 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 162 2010-12-07 01:38:10 <AAA_awright> No one is nerdy enough to respond to http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2035.0 COME ON
 163 2010-12-07 01:40:18 <bencoder> it is too late to try and understand right now
 164 2010-12-07 01:40:39 <bencoder> late at night, for me, i mean
 165 2010-12-07 01:43:23 <AAA_awright> I'm trying to find an algroithm that works... Some way that hashes the private keys but not the balance, yet keeps them cryptographically linked so you can't tamper with them without detecting it... hm
 166 2010-12-07 01:46:12 <doublec> lolcat, bitcoind builds but doesn't link due to missing some libboost libraries. I'm looking at what's involved in building those.
 167 2010-12-07 01:46:42 <jgarzik> doublec: usable boost should be available in most distros
 168 2010-12-07 01:46:55 <doublec> jgarzik, this is for maemo
 169 2010-12-07 01:47:01 <doublec> on the N900
 170 2010-12-07 01:47:11 <doublec> it has some boost libraries but not libboost_filesystem
 171 2010-12-07 01:47:14 <lolcat> doublec: :S
 172 2010-12-07 01:47:24 <doublec> it also has an ancient libdb
 173 2010-12-07 01:47:59 <doublec> why do libraries ship with HTML build docs these days. It's a pain to read from a terminal.
 174 2010-12-07 01:49:17 <tcatm> I need a short name for services like mtgox, mybitcoin or bitcoind from the view of an application that uses them to receive/send bitcoins. Any ideas?
 175 2010-12-07 01:49:47 <doublec> bank
 176 2010-12-07 01:49:56 <doublec> vault
 177 2010-12-07 01:50:12 <doublec> broker
 178 2010-12-07 01:50:30 <tcatm> vault sounds good. thanks!
 179 2010-12-07 01:51:49 * Zarutian rattles his tip jar 1MYWGLJfR7W1tMez8ZVkgo8MR8o9sWJpSi
 180 2010-12-07 01:52:57 <tcatm> So now I have Wallet that a presented to the user and have a balance and maybe a list of transactions. They can connect to a vault to send/receive bitcoins. Does that sound right?
 181 2010-12-07 01:54:18 <bencoder> you have to do something to make people /want/ to tip you Zarutian... other than annoy them asking for tips
 182 2010-12-07 01:55:58 <doublec> tcatm, that sounds great
 183 2010-12-07 01:57:51 <Zarutian> bencoder: something like http://pastebin.ca/2012512 ?
 184 2010-12-07 01:59:28 <bencoder> doesn't seem to be loading...
 185 2010-12-07 01:59:35 <bencoder> Waiting for pastebin.ca
 186 2010-12-07 02:00:14 <Zarutian> wait, it just loaded a few secs ago!?
 187 2010-12-07 02:00:55 <lolcat> bencoder: It is some uri scheme for bitcoin
 188 2010-12-07 02:01:00 <bencoder> i guess the awesomeness of whatever you put on there was too much :P
 189 2010-12-07 02:01:08 <bencoder> I see
 190 2010-12-07 02:01:36 * Zarutian bows and thanks the anonymouse donor
 191 2010-12-07 02:01:36 waves281 has joined
 192 2010-12-07 02:02:36 * tcatm collects donations for development of an android at 1MV4Ar3fdkjmp1qmQ5G95H6gs6ReHLMj5T :)
 193 2010-12-07 02:03:22 <doublec> The most popular use of bitcoins is probably speculating and donating
 194 2010-12-07 02:04:20 <lolcat> I wish I could use bitcoins to buy stuff
 195 2010-12-07 02:04:32 * lolcat gotta convince his dealer to start using bitcoin
 196 2010-12-07 02:04:51 <lolcat> Then i would stop having to pay paypal fees every damn time
 197 2010-12-07 02:05:04 <doublec> what fun it will be sitting with your dealer for 15 minutes waiting for the transaction to confirm
 198 2010-12-07 02:05:37 <nelisky> doublec: not if they both use tcatm's own vautt/bank
 199 2010-12-07 02:05:42 <nelisky> (or mtgox) :)
 200 2010-12-07 02:05:44 <doublec> nelisky, good point
 201 2010-12-07 02:05:47 <Zarutian> doublec: an excelent time to play one 9x9 game of go
 202 2010-12-07 02:05:55 <bencoder> :D
 203 2010-12-07 02:06:12 <lolcat> doublec: I use paypal now, it takes about 15 minutes that to, login typing in numbers and calculating price and such
 204 2010-12-07 02:06:15 <doublec> we should build a networked go game into the bitcoin protocol
 205 2010-12-07 02:06:20 <nelisky> we have way too many solutions... gotta find new problems now :)
 206 2010-12-07 02:06:47 <lolcat> I have a problem
 207 2010-12-07 02:06:56 <lolcat> My bitcoins was 20% more worth yesterday! :P
 208 2010-12-07 02:07:44 <nelisky> and that is a problem why? sell it to me at a 10% discount and that way you won't loose another 20% by tomorrow
 209 2010-12-07 02:08:13 <lolcat> Id rather keep it untill 2015 and sell it at 5USD a coin
 210 2010-12-07 02:08:15 <bencoder> haha
 211 2010-12-07 02:08:45 <bencoder> same, regret selling 1000btc for about $45 a few months ago
 212 2010-12-07 02:09:08 <lolcat> bencoder: I'd have given you 50 today! :P
 213 2010-12-07 02:09:14 <bencoder> haha
 214 2010-12-07 02:10:06 <Zarutian> this is like a reverse hollandish auction or that compition of tractors where the last one wins (but they must move)
 215 2010-12-07 02:10:40 * Zarutian bows and thanks the second anonymous donor
 216 2010-12-07 02:11:09 <OneFixt> ;;btc,calc
 217 2010-12-07 02:11:09 <gribble> Error: "btc,calc" is not a valid command.
 218 2010-12-07 02:11:15 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 219 2010-12-07 02:11:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96093 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 674 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11776.72722885
 220 2010-12-07 02:15:12 <lolcat> Won't bitcoin die after a few year though?
 221 2010-12-07 02:15:29 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 222 2010-12-07 02:15:32 <Kiba> die after a few year?
 223 2010-12-07 02:15:35 <lolcat> Yes
 224 2010-12-07 02:15:40 <Kiba> how?
 225 2010-12-07 02:15:50 <lolcat> because each time a wallet disseapears there is less bitcoins
 226 2010-12-07 02:15:54 <Kiba> no
 227 2010-12-07 02:16:05 <Kiba> even if we have 1 BTC
 228 2010-12-07 02:16:05 <lolcat> After a certain amount of time, it will be none in circulation
 229 2010-12-07 02:16:12 <Kiba> there's plenty of room in the decimal space
 230 2010-12-07 02:16:16 <Kiba> lolcat: no
 231 2010-12-07 02:16:21 <Kiba> just use 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001
 232 2010-12-07 02:16:31 <lolcat> It is inifinite?
 233 2010-12-07 02:16:37 <lolcat> I thougth it was 8 or something?
 234 2010-12-07 02:16:50 <Kiba> economic calculation is not dependent on the number of bitcoins
 235 2010-12-07 02:16:53 <Kiba> but divisbility
 236 2010-12-07 02:17:06 <Kiba> and people won't be stupid enough to lose their bitcoin
 237 2010-12-07 02:17:10 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: no
 238 2010-12-07 02:17:11 <Diablo-D3> its 8
 239 2010-12-07 02:17:13 <Kiba> they will keep it safe through lot of backup
 240 2010-12-07 02:17:18 <Diablo-D3> but 8 is a fucking shitload
 241 2010-12-07 02:17:22 <Diablo-D3> nominally its really 4
 242 2010-12-07 02:17:31 <Diablo-D3> since you'd want to keep 2 decimal places plus 2 below it
 243 2010-12-07 02:17:53 <Diablo-D3> either that, or yen the problem and just go straight to the 8 and drop decimal places altogether
 244 2010-12-07 02:17:58 <Kiba> we need a backup script!
 245 2010-12-07 02:18:00 <lolcat> Can anyone send me 0,00000001 bitcoin? 1NxGQCuq4GvQ1Ho8QhF8LkWxp7hwBQoym9
 246 2010-12-07 02:18:28 <doublec> we need a #bitcoin-beg
 247 2010-12-07 02:18:40 <Kiba> and my computer need to generate some heat!
 248 2010-12-07 02:18:45 <Kiba> I wish I have 10 GPUs now!
 249 2010-12-07 02:18:52 <Kiba> cause it's cold
 250 2010-12-07 02:18:53 <Kiba> BBRRRR
 251 2010-12-07 02:18:58 <lolcat> Kiba: People are stupid. Everyone know you should backup, but few does it
 252 2010-12-07 02:19:17 <lolcat> But is there any software now that supports eigth decimals?
 253 2010-12-07 02:19:17 <Diablo-D3> I have a 2tb external hd sitting on my desk just for the task
 254 2010-12-07 02:19:20 <Kiba> than make it stupidly easy to backup
 255 2010-12-07 02:19:26 <bencoder> fortunately 1 backup lasts for 100 new addresses :)
 256 2010-12-07 02:19:29 <Kiba> super stupidly easy
 257 2010-12-07 02:19:39 <ne0futur> lolcat: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
 258 2010-12-07 02:19:48 <tcatm> Thanks to however donated a few coins :)
 259 2010-12-07 02:19:54 <tcatm> who*
 260 2010-12-07 02:20:17 <lolcat> ne0futur: I just wanted to see if I could get a balance of 0,00000001
 261 2010-12-07 02:20:34 <lolcat> I have somethink like ~200 bitcoins
 262 2010-12-07 02:20:46 <bencoder> my backups just go between different vps's scp the file to a vps in another country
 263 2010-12-07 02:22:00 <bencoder> sleep now
 264 2010-12-07 02:22:25 <doublec> tcatm, that was me. I would have done more but I sold all my coins recently.
 265 2010-12-07 02:22:47 <lolcat> doublec: Sold them at the top?
 266 2010-12-07 02:22:47 <Kiba> when I am a good artist
 267 2010-12-07 02:22:48 <doublec> tcatm, I'm keen on seeing an android client.
 268 2010-12-07 02:22:56 <Kiba> I am going start novel
 269 2010-12-07 02:22:59 <doublec> lolcat, I got 0.23 which is fine since I got most of them at 0.08.
 270 2010-12-07 02:23:01 <Kiba> start a graphic novel!
 271 2010-12-07 02:23:03 <Kiba> MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
 272 2010-12-07 02:23:10 <doublec> I needed xmas money :)
 273 2010-12-07 02:23:20 <Kiba> kiba will be known for many thing!
 274 2010-12-07 02:24:26 grifferz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 275 2010-12-07 02:26:27 <Zarutian> hmm... authorship works commissioned under anon assurance contract would be something no? example: "when the balance of <btc-addr> has gone above x amount then release the file"
 276 2010-12-07 02:27:26 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
 277 2010-12-07 02:27:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96096 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 671 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 4 hours, 41 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11779.31116194
 278 2010-12-07 02:37:20 grifferz has joined
 279 2010-12-07 02:43:00 waves281 has quit (Quit: waves281)
 280 2010-12-07 02:43:57 <doublec> lolcat, bitcoind compiled and ran fine in the maemo sdk x86 test environment. I'll try an actual ARM build now.
 281 2010-12-07 02:45:03 <lolcat> doublec: Awesome
 282 2010-12-07 02:45:21 foggymyst has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 283 2010-12-07 02:45:33 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Any idea how bitcoins could be applied in a normal shop? Lets say a grocery store
 284 2010-12-07 02:45:55 <Diablo-D3> at that point we'd just roll our own system to do that
 285 2010-12-07 02:46:08 <lolcat> but how?
 286 2010-12-07 02:46:16 <lolcat> My wallet is on my computer
 287 2010-12-07 02:46:58 <Diablo-D3> probably an intelligent device that communicates with your bank and you plug it into the shop's POS
 288 2010-12-07 02:47:08 <lolcat> Transfer it to my phone, then use a barcode/bluetooth/wifi/infrared in the shop to get the amount bitcoin adress
 289 2010-12-07 02:47:14 <Zarutian> plug or IrDa
 290 2010-12-07 02:47:29 <Diablo-D3> plug does not literally mean plug
 291 2010-12-07 02:47:31 <lolcat> bitcoin on my phone would be optimal
 292 2010-12-07 02:47:42 <Diablo-D3> it could be a display that displays a qr code
 293 2010-12-07 02:47:48 <lolcat> I could store my friends adresses, and then transfer to them
 294 2010-12-07 02:47:58 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: not on the phone
 295 2010-12-07 02:48:04 <Diablo-D3> it'd be something ran by the bank
 296 2010-12-07 02:48:18 <lolcat> I thougth the point of bitcoins was to get rid of banks?
 297 2010-12-07 02:48:18 <Zarutian> Diablo-D3: hence we theymos put together that uri scheme for bitcoins ;-)
 298 2010-12-07 02:48:26 <Diablo-D3> and no, you wouldn't depend on the device connecting to the internet
 299 2010-12-07 02:48:30 <Diablo-D3> you'd depend on the POS to do it
 300 2010-12-07 02:48:40 <Diablo-D3> so you'd flash, say, a device or a cellphone infront of the POS
 301 2010-12-07 02:48:45 <Diablo-D3> and the transaction would be done
 302 2010-12-07 02:49:00 <lolcat> Id feel safer with my phone
 303 2010-12-07 02:49:08 <lolcat> I could probably have a code to unlock the wallet
 304 2010-12-07 02:49:11 <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt
 305 2010-12-07 02:49:13 <Diablo-D3> I dont trust phones
 306 2010-12-07 02:49:19 <lolcat> Get a adress to send the money to
 307 2010-12-07 02:49:28 <Zarutian> similar to writing a cheque. (Only you do it with your smartphone/device instead of by hand)
 308 2010-12-07 02:49:48 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: but thats cumbersome and not useful
 309 2010-12-07 02:49:57 <Diablo-D3> joe blow or aunt tilly could never figure it out
 310 2010-12-07 02:50:03 grondilu has joined
 311 2010-12-07 02:50:30 <lolcat> I know
 312 2010-12-07 02:50:40 <lolcat> but flashing a device, how is that safe?
 313 2010-12-07 02:50:46 <grondilu> Do you know Jean-Claude Trichet ?  Or Christine Lagarde ?  What do you think of their english ?
 314 2010-12-07 02:50:50 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: define "safe"
 315 2010-12-07 02:51:06 <Diablo-D3> its no different than sliding a credit card into a POS
 316 2010-12-07 02:51:11 <lolcat> Like my beloved visa magnet strip :)
 317 2010-12-07 02:51:29 <lolcat> (I hate those fucking chips)
 318 2010-12-07 02:51:31 <Diablo-D3> instead, you'd use private band communications that is only valid for the transaction
 319 2010-12-07 02:51:54 <lolcat> Id have to validate the amount on the device?
 320 2010-12-07 02:52:13 <Diablo-D3> optimally, yes
 321 2010-12-07 02:52:18 <lolcat> Because with a normal creditcard, you validate the amount with a signature or a pin.
 322 2010-12-07 02:52:20 <Zarutian> lolcat: or enter it
 323 2010-12-07 02:52:27 <lolcat> Zarutian: cumbersome
 324 2010-12-07 02:52:30 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: no, you dont validate the _amount_
 325 2010-12-07 02:52:38 <Diablo-D3> you dont validate anything with a signature
 326 2010-12-07 02:52:39 <ne0futur> grondilu: great one more french here ;)
 327 2010-12-07 02:52:47 <Zarutian> then squirt the btc tx at the POS
 328 2010-12-07 02:52:49 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I do, I verify I am me, and I validate the amount.
 329 2010-12-07 02:52:53 <Diablo-D3> the existence of the card validates the transaction
 330 2010-12-07 02:53:05 <Diablo-D3> pin validates the transaction, but not the amount
 331 2010-12-07 02:53:11 <lolcat> The amount is on the paper I sign
 332 2010-12-07 02:53:20 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I see the amoun on the display
 333 2010-12-07 02:53:21 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt mean YOU signed it
 334 2010-12-07 02:53:27 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt validate anything
 335 2010-12-07 02:53:35 <Diablo-D3> credit card signatures are worthless
 336 2010-12-07 02:53:46 <lolcat> I know
 337 2010-12-07 02:53:58 waves281 has joined
 338 2010-12-07 02:53:58 <lolcat> But if my creditcard gets raped, VISA pays me back
 339 2010-12-07 02:54:12 <lolcat> If my mastercard get stolen, mastercard pays me back
 340 2010-12-07 02:54:16 <Zarutian> lolcat: but the merchants dont stay paid
 341 2010-12-07 02:54:26 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: in theory, yes.
 342 2010-12-07 02:54:37 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: but thats also useless here, and it only papers over the issue
 343 2010-12-07 02:54:39 <lolcat> If I type the numbers into a shady website and dont get what I ordered, I get my money back.
 344 2010-12-07 02:54:45 <Diablo-D3> it punishes merchants, not people commiting fraud
 345 2010-12-07 02:55:01 <lolcat> But fraud prevention is an issue
 346 2010-12-07 02:55:02 <Diablo-D3> most fraud is done by identity theft, not shady websites.
 347 2010-12-07 02:55:05 <lolcat> With any currency
 348 2010-12-07 02:55:06 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: yes, ergo
 349 2010-12-07 02:55:08 <Diablo-D3> you have a device
 350 2010-12-07 02:55:13 <Diablo-D3> that would handle this
 351 2010-12-07 02:55:57 <Kiba> frauds make paypal suck
 352 2010-12-07 02:56:12 <Diablo-D3> you can produce a psudeo random security code
 353 2010-12-07 02:56:12 <Kiba> plus, people say "Oh, I can just get VISA to reverse the transaction"
 354 2010-12-07 02:56:15 <Kiba> it make people...
 355 2010-12-07 02:56:21 <Kiba> uncautious
 356 2010-12-07 02:56:25 <lolcat> I am thinking like my N900. A pin to unlock the device, it communicated with the till at the shop. I get to see the price, and the device gets the adress. Then I look at the amount, if I concur, I press Accept and the transaction is made.
 357 2010-12-07 02:56:32 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: no.
 358 2010-12-07 02:56:44 <Diablo-D3> thats entirely too complex
 359 2010-12-07 02:56:59 <lolcat> Where is the complexity?
 360 2010-12-07 02:57:03 <Diablo-D3> typing too much
 361 2010-12-07 02:57:07 <Diablo-D3> and pins are useless
 362 2010-12-07 02:57:11 <Zarutian> lolcat: it is better to give a shady website just the btx tx (or if you cant wait for that to be implemented something like ukash, paysafe or webmoney.eu nums and codes)
 363 2010-12-07 02:57:17 <lolcat> A 4 digit pin isnt a lot of typing
 364 2010-12-07 02:57:25 <Diablo-D3> lol 4 digits
 365 2010-12-07 02:57:26 <Diablo-D3> useless
 366 2010-12-07 02:57:28 <Diablo-D3> how is that secure
 367 2010-12-07 02:57:28 <doublec> using the latest near field communication devices you can just wave your phone at the shop's sale device
 368 2010-12-07 02:57:34 <lolcat> s
 369 2010-12-07 02:57:41 <Diablo-D3> doublec: this is what Im getting at
 370 2010-12-07 02:57:49 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Three tries, then you need a 16 number or even 32 number code
 371 2010-12-07 02:57:53 <doublec> for older phones the camera can read a barcode
 372 2010-12-07 02:57:59 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: aunt tilly cant handle that
 373 2010-12-07 02:58:08 * Kiba struggles to keep warm in a cold room
 374 2010-12-07 02:58:09 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, lolcat does not understand security
 375 2010-12-07 02:58:11 <Diablo-D3> so I give up
 376 2010-12-07 02:58:21 <grondilu> ne0futur: I mean : don't you think they sound silly ?
 377 2010-12-07 02:58:31 <lolcat> If I just vaive my amount at the till, then it is not anywhere near safe.
 378 2010-12-07 02:58:38 <lolcat> my device*
 379 2010-12-07 02:58:49 <Zarutian> lolcat: continued: that way you only loose the amount you gave the shady website but not the whole card.
 380 2010-12-07 02:58:50 <doublec> You wave it at the till and click "Yes"
 381 2010-12-07 02:59:10 <Diablo-D3> but a psudeo random security key based on time and transaction amount, a trusted third party chosen by the user, and using qr codes for shop id and transaction id in both directions could very well work
 382 2010-12-07 02:59:31 <lolcat> doublec: That is exactly what I said, except I want a pin on my device
 383 2010-12-07 02:59:53 <lolcat> Zarutian: Doesn't mather. From my point of view, it is irrelevant. I get my money back
 384 2010-12-07 03:00:09 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: except a pin does not work
 385 2010-12-07 03:00:12 <ne0futur> grondilu: most of the french gov _is_ silly :p they dont even need to _look_ silly
 386 2010-12-07 03:00:22 <Kiba> who's silly?
 387 2010-12-07 03:00:28 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Why is it used by ALL of the biggest companies now then?
 388 2010-12-07 03:00:33 <ne0futur> ( I m french too but left sarko f-Rance )
 389 2010-12-07 03:00:38 <Kiba> why those French faggots still celebrate the faggot French revolution/
 390 2010-12-07 03:00:39 <Zarutian> lolcat: it does matter. Have you ever had to cancel a card due to breach at a merchant? it isnt a pretty sight
 391 2010-12-07 03:00:58 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: because people believe its secure
 392 2010-12-07 03:00:59 <Diablo-D3> its not
 393 2010-12-07 03:01:00 <lolcat> Zarutian: I haven't. But I am sure my bank will be compliant
 394 2010-12-07 03:01:29 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I know. But at least a pin would prevent my friends from picking up my wallet-device and b
 395 2010-12-07 03:01:33 <lolcat> uy beer for it
 396 2010-12-07 03:01:38 <grondilu> Kiba: we celebrate it because our government wants us to do so.  We're nothing but stupid sheeps.
 397 2010-12-07 03:01:53 <Zarutian> lolcat: yes but its lot and lot of hassle for transactions lower than 10 bucks or so
 398 2010-12-07 03:02:18 <doublec> friends don't let friends use their phone
 399 2010-12-07 03:02:20 <lolcat> Zarutian: If I pay 10 bucks, I have to press my 4 digit pin, and then a "Ready" button.
 400 2010-12-07 03:02:27 <doublec> when their phone is actually their wallet
 401 2010-12-07 03:02:34 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
 402 2010-12-07 03:02:35 <doublec> "Sure Bob, you can borrow my credit card"
 403 2010-12-07 03:02:49 * lolcat have borrowed his friends creditcard
 404 2010-12-07 03:02:58 <lolcat> I always end up forgetting the stupid pin though
 405 2010-12-07 03:03:06 <doublec> pick an easier number
 406 2010-12-07 03:03:08 <doublec> 1234
 407 2010-12-07 03:03:20 <Zarutian> gosh it is the same as on my luggage!
 408 2010-12-07 03:03:20 <lolcat> If its not my credicard that would be impossible
 409 2010-12-07 03:04:09 <ArtForz> remind me to change the combination on my luggage
 410 2010-12-07 03:04:37 * nelisky salutes Zarutian and ArtForz for the Space Balls references
 411 2010-12-07 03:04:49 <lolcat> doublec: Can we agree that the bitcoin wallet device should have the possibility to use a pin?
 412 2010-12-07 03:05:03 <Diablo-D3> [10:00:51] <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I know. But at least a pin would prevent my friends from picking up my wallet-device and b
 413 2010-12-07 03:05:03 <Diablo-D3> [10:00:55] <lolcat> uy beer for it
 414 2010-12-07 03:05:06 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt
 415 2010-12-07 03:05:14 <lolcat> How doesn't it?
 416 2010-12-07 03:05:19 <Diablo-D3> why would it?
 417 2010-12-07 03:05:31 <lolcat> My friends don't know my pin
 418 2010-12-07 03:05:37 <Kiba> use a passphrase than a 4 digit pin, lolcat
 419 2010-12-07 03:05:48 <Diablo-D3> why do you keep wanting numbers?
 420 2010-12-07 03:05:50 <Diablo-D3> thats stupid
 421 2010-12-07 03:06:01 <Kiba> a combination of words, numbers, and symbols
 422 2010-12-07 03:06:01 <waves281> I was just looking something up on a wikipedia page and their donation page popped up.  No bitcoin address.  So I emailed them to ask for it :)
 423 2010-12-07 03:06:08 <lolcat> Because numbers are easier to type on a small device
 424 2010-12-07 03:06:15 angus has joined
 425 2010-12-07 03:06:25 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: how so?
 426 2010-12-07 03:06:33 <Diablo-D3> many devices dont even have keys anymore
 427 2010-12-07 03:06:35 <Kiba> lolcat: if they your device, they will just find a way to bruteforce it
 428 2010-12-07 03:06:41 <Kiba> got your device
 429 2010-12-07 03:06:43 <lolcat> Ahh
 430 2010-12-07 03:06:57 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: a lot of devices have front facing cameras, for example
 431 2010-12-07 03:07:05 <lolcat> That is the reason visa verifies the pin towards a server
 432 2010-12-07 03:07:12 <ArtForz> yep, pin securing locally stored data = useless
 433 2010-12-07 03:07:19 <lolcat> Agreed
 434 2010-12-07 03:07:33 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, Im tired of discussing it
 435 2010-12-07 03:07:35 <lolcat> You could always have little money in your wallet
 436 2010-12-07 03:07:36 <Kiba> just treat it as cash
 437 2010-12-07 03:07:38 <Diablo-D3> Im not teaching security 101 tonight
 438 2010-12-07 03:07:58 <Kiba> I don't have a 4 number password
 439 2010-12-07 03:08:02 <Zarutian> Kiba: x tries and it locks out further attempts until a longer key is entered (Similar with SIM cards and their PIN/PUK mechanism)
 440 2010-12-07 03:08:03 <Kiba> that's laughable weak
 441 2010-12-07 03:08:22 <lolcat> Kiba: Not if you have only three tries
 442 2010-12-07 03:08:35 <Diablo-D3> my user account password on my own workstation is like 24 letters
 443 2010-12-07 03:08:38 <Diablo-D3> and I type this in daily
 444 2010-12-07 03:08:43 <Diablo-D3> 4 numbers is uselessly weak
 445 2010-12-07 03:08:48 <Kiba> somebody is bound to type 1 2 3 4
 446 2010-12-07 03:08:54 <Kiba> they will try the most common combination
 447 2010-12-07 03:09:13 <lolcat> But I wouldn't bother to type a 24 letter passphrase to buy a hotdog
 448 2010-12-07 03:09:24 <Kiba> lolcat: then treat it like cash
 449 2010-12-07 03:09:25 <Diablo-D3> no, but why do numbers?
 450 2010-12-07 03:09:28 <Diablo-D3> it could be images
 451 2010-12-07 03:09:31 <Kiba> if you have a 200 dollar phone, you would keep it secure
 452 2010-12-07 03:09:33 <Diablo-D3> "which image listed is your key image"
 453 2010-12-07 03:09:46 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: phones are stolen all the time
 454 2010-12-07 03:09:50 <lolcat> Kiba: My phone is more like $800
 455 2010-12-07 03:10:12 <Diablo-D3> or it could be a series of colored blocks you have to order correctly
 456 2010-12-07 03:10:20 <lolcat> And it is insured, so I don't give it much thougt
 457 2010-12-07 03:10:31 * Diablo-D3 steals lolcat's phone, profits
 458 2010-12-07 03:10:32 <nelisky> lolcat: c'mon -> ;;google calc 800 / .20
 459 2010-12-07 03:10:51 <lolcat> nelisky: My phone doesnt have bitcoins in it
 460 2010-12-07 03:10:56 <nelisky> that didn't have the impact I expected :O
 461 2010-12-07 03:11:00 <lolcat> But the phone itself is worth that
 462 2010-12-07 03:11:14 <Kiba> bitcoins are just cash, and should be treated as such
 463 2010-12-07 03:11:24 <nelisky> yes, express values in bitcoins, and be proud of it!
 464 2010-12-07 03:11:29 <Kiba> unless you want a centralized bank
 465 2010-12-07 03:11:32 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: That would be a good solution, yes.
 466 2010-12-07 03:11:36 <nelisky> then burn your bra
 467 2010-12-07 03:12:06 <Kiba> I don't have a good feeling on what bitcoins could buy me
 468 2010-12-07 03:12:25 <Kiba> I can guesstimate with dollars
 469 2010-12-07 03:12:43 <doublec> ;;google calc 1000 / .20
 470 2010-12-07 03:12:44 <gribble> 1,000 / .20 = 5,000
 471 2010-12-07 03:12:52 <doublec> 5,000 bitcoins for a smartphone
 472 2010-12-07 03:12:56 <Kiba> Russian rubes enjoying a rally
 473 2010-12-07 03:13:15 <Kiba> well btc/rubes
 474 2010-12-07 03:17:28 <Kiba> apperantly, I now have 27 followers
 475 2010-12-07 03:17:36 <Diablo-D3> on what?
 476 2010-12-07 03:18:17 <Kiba> twitter
 477 2010-12-07 03:18:27 <Kiba> and I didn't say what my cat eat, what I eat, or whatever boring crap
 478 2010-12-07 03:22:56 <lolcat> Kiba: You should write a: "How to get popular" -ebook
 479 2010-12-07 03:24:15 <Kiba> lolcat: 1. take initiative.
 480 2010-12-07 03:24:21 <nelisky> I once created a test twitter account, ya know, to understand all the fuss
 481 2010-12-07 03:24:24 <Kiba> 2. have balls
 482 2010-12-07 03:24:31 <nelisky> I wrote one single tweet: "test"
 483 2010-12-07 03:24:41 <nelisky> I have more followers than you, Kiba
 484 2010-12-07 03:24:42 <nelisky> :p
 485 2010-12-07 03:24:49 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: 27 on twitter? 28 of them are bots.
 486 2010-12-07 03:24:59 <Diablo-D3> and no, thats not a typo
 487 2010-12-07 03:25:17 <Kiba> 3. There's no...#3.
 488 2010-12-07 03:25:23 <ArtForz> 3. ??? 4. Profit!
 489 2010-12-07 03:25:47 <Kiba> I don't even contribute most of the bounty
 490 2010-12-07 03:25:53 <Kiba> I just start the thread
 491 2010-12-07 03:25:59 <Kiba> and then pledge some.
 492 2010-12-07 03:26:04 Lysacor has joined
 493 2010-12-07 03:30:12 <Zarutian> Kiba: hmm? which thread?
 494 2010-12-07 03:30:20 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
 495 2010-12-07 03:30:39 <Kiba> Zarutian: you don't read the forum?
 496 2010-12-07 03:30:52 <Kiba> let see, I started the advertising campaign on projectwonderful
 497 2010-12-07 03:30:58 <Kiba> lead a bit effort to raise money for....
 498 2010-12-07 03:31:17 <Diablo-D3> heh
 499 2010-12-07 03:31:19 <Kiba> DomainChain AKA BitDNS since .p2p are a bunch of faggots
 500 2010-12-07 03:31:22 * Diablo-D3 has been using pw for years
 501 2010-12-07 03:31:38 <Kiba> there's even a fucking power struggle
 502 2010-12-07 03:31:58 <Kiba> I started pledge on android
 503 2010-12-07 03:32:00 <Kiba> I started...
 504 2010-12-07 03:32:02 <Kiba> a lot of shit.
 505 2010-12-07 03:33:58 <Zarutian> Kiba: not that frequently, no
 506 2010-12-07 03:34:26 <Kiba> Zarutian: pretty frequently compared to others
 507 2010-12-07 03:35:07 <Zarutian> Kiba: any coding projects that arent too demanding?
 508 2010-12-07 03:35:09 <Kiba> But in the end, I just start the march and the people do it.
 509 2010-12-07 03:35:15 <doublec> lolcat, it builds on arm but segfaults on the emulator
 510 2010-12-07 03:35:19 <doublec> I'll try it on the actual device
 511 2010-12-07 03:35:19 <Kiba> Zarutian: they're not demanding on my brain
 512 2010-12-07 03:35:32 <Kiba> I am just lazy to do them.
 513 2010-12-07 03:35:34 NOTtheMessiah has joined
 514 2010-12-07 03:36:13 <Zarutian> Kiba: suits me, if I can earn btc relatively easily that way
 515 2010-12-07 03:36:37 <Kiba> Zarutian: nobody brothers to do them anyway
 516 2010-12-07 03:37:02 <Kiba> actually, I don't have time to do 100 projects
 517 2010-12-07 03:37:05 <Zarutian> brothers? autoincorrect?
 518 2010-12-07 03:37:16 <Kiba> so I am going to do a few...
 519 2010-12-07 03:37:39 <Kiba> bothers
 520 2010-12-07 03:41:08 <MT`AwAy> mh
 521 2010-12-07 03:41:25 <Zarutian> well I am off to bed, cya folks
 522 2010-12-07 03:42:06 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 523 2010-12-07 03:43:55 <Kiba> so arronsw tweeted bitcoin
 524 2010-12-07 03:44:01 <Kiba> it's reaching famous personalities!
 525 2010-12-07 03:48:13 Orbixx has joined
 526 2010-12-07 03:48:52 <Orbixx> I am throroughly confused.
 527 2010-12-07 03:49:07 <Orbixx> Is there a more detailed explanation of Bitcoin and how it related to real-world currency?
 528 2010-12-07 03:49:41 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: the only relation to real world currency is the value other people are willing to give to bitcoins
 529 2010-12-07 03:49:54 <Orbixx> I see, so it's what people make it.
 530 2010-12-07 03:50:00 <Diablo-D3> welcome to currency.
 531 2010-12-07 03:50:06 <Orbixx> :)
 532 2010-12-07 03:50:34 <Kiba> It's a real world currency
 533 2010-12-07 03:50:36 <Kiba> bitcoin ain't fake
 534 2010-12-07 03:50:38 <Orbixx> What's it commonly used for?
 535 2010-12-07 03:50:39 <Kiba> it's real
 536 2010-12-07 03:50:46 <Kiba> Orbixx: same thing that any currency is used for.
 537 2010-12-07 03:51:16 <Orbixx> Well yes, I understand you all want to portray it as independently as possible, which I'm sure it has the potential to be, but please level with me realistically.
 538 2010-12-07 03:51:26 <Orbixx> At the present moment in time, how is it commonly used?
 539 2010-12-07 03:51:53 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: for example you can use it on sites listed on http://www.bitcoin.org/trade
 540 2010-12-07 03:52:09 <Orbixx> How are transactions authenticated?
 541 2010-12-07 03:52:35 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: usually when you want to receive a transaction, you give this someone an unique bitcoin address
 542 2010-12-07 03:52:52 <MT`AwAy> so when bitcoins arrives there, you know it's from this individual/for this service
 543 2010-12-07 03:53:20 <Orbixx> I'm also seeing signs of some form of distributed computing.
 544 2010-12-07 03:53:20 <Orbixx> What is this?
 545 2010-12-07 03:53:23 <MT`AwAy> also, bitcoin payments can't be cancelled, so as soon as you have your bitcoins and enough confirmations to make sure it's not a fake payment (double payment/etc), you can deliver
 546 2010-12-07 03:54:20 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: to generate "blocks" (read the wiki for more infos on what a block is) people need to generate a sha256 hash following a specific rule, which is made less or more hard depending on the total amount of cpu power on the network
 547 2010-12-07 03:54:44 <MT`AwAy> when someone generates a block, they get bitcoins to "thank" them
 548 2010-12-07 03:55:08 <MT`AwAy> thanks to blocks, your transactions are getting "confirmed"
 549 2010-12-07 03:55:29 <Kiba> wee!
 550 2010-12-07 03:55:30 <Orbixx> So blocks are essentially cryptographically signed banking information?
 551 2010-12-07 03:55:34 <Kiba> now mybitcoin have nice graphics!
 552 2010-12-07 03:56:38 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: to know what can be found in blocks, you can look at http://blockexplorer.com/
 553 2010-12-07 03:57:15 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: basically each and every bitcoin node knows about each and every transaction. What makes those transactions anonymous is the fact you can't know who is owning a given bitcoin address
 554 2010-12-07 03:57:40 <Orbixx> What causes the generation of a block to take approximately 10 minutes on a CPU?
 555 2010-12-07 03:57:52 <Orbixx> Ridiculously high-grade cryptography?
 556 2010-12-07 03:57:52 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it's automatically tweaked based on past results
 557 2010-12-07 03:57:56 <MT`AwAy> every 2 weeks
 558 2010-12-07 03:58:31 <MT`AwAy> there is a number known as "difficulty" that is re-computed between all the bitcoin nodes based on how fast were the last 2 weeks worth of blocks generated
 559 2010-12-07 03:58:39 <MT`AwAy> +were
 560 2010-12-07 03:58:55 <Orbixx> What is the purpose of this?
 561 2010-12-07 03:59:39 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: make sure blocks are not generated too fast
 562 2010-12-07 03:59:59 <Orbixx> (I appreciate you answering all these questions, by the way)
 563 2010-12-07 04:00:06 <Orbixx> What is bad about blocks being generated too fast?
 564 2010-12-07 04:00:14 <lolcat> Orbixx: Inflation
 565 2010-12-07 04:00:25 <Orbixx> But I thought
 566 2010-12-07 04:00:26 <Orbixx> oh
 567 2010-12-07 04:00:26 <Orbixx> right
 568 2010-12-07 04:00:29 <MT`AwAy> in fact the operation done by bitcoin clients ils more close to a bruteforce attack, because we know it takes on average X seconds to generate a hash following a given rule with a given supply of cpu power, we can tweak the difficulty accordingly
 569 2010-12-07 04:00:32 <Orbixx> you get rewarded for generating blocks
 570 2010-12-07 04:00:34 <Orbixx> d'uh
 571 2010-12-07 04:01:11 <Orbixx> So consuming CPU time to enhance the cryptographical strength of the transactions is merely a side-effect of currency control?
 572 2010-12-07 04:01:24 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it's a planned side effect
 573 2010-12-07 04:01:27 <Orbixx> Yes.
 574 2010-12-07 04:01:34 <Orbixx> Now things are starting to make sense./
 575 2010-12-07 04:01:44 <Orbixx> I'm...
 576 2010-12-07 04:01:51 <Orbixx> Intrigued.
 577 2010-12-07 04:02:03 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: the idea was to find a way to distribute bitcoins across the nodes at first without having someone cheating by running 1000 nodes on the same computer
 578 2010-12-07 04:02:53 <MT`AwAy> problem is people went GPU, and some people invested in supercomputer-grade hardware to generate bitcoins (good thing is, they invested a lot of money because of that, which means it may be only fair they get bitcoins in return, at least for a while)
 579 2010-12-07 04:03:40 <Orbixx> So do those with faster computational power available acquire coins quicker? Wait, no, because they're round-robin'd, but to round-robin them means that blocks could still be created quickly if not forced to spend additional CPU time computing them.
 580 2010-12-07 04:03:46 <Orbixx> I love answering my own questions.
 581 2010-12-07 04:03:59 <MT`AwAy> and no it's not round robin
 582 2010-12-07 04:04:06 <Orbixx> Well, I was using RR as an example.
 583 2010-12-07 04:04:12 <Orbixx> Let's just say balanced.
 584 2010-12-07 04:04:14 <MT`AwAy> people with ability to generate more hashes/seconds will get more bitcoins
 585 2010-12-07 04:04:17 <Orbixx> Balanced is correct?
 586 2010-12-07 04:04:27 <Orbixx> I see...
 587 2010-12-07 04:04:29 <MT`AwAy> the more cpu you have, the more bitcoins you get
 588 2010-12-07 04:04:41 <[Noodles]> will 'likely' get more coins, it's still a lottery
 589 2010-12-07 04:04:55 <MT`AwAy> because if it was just equally shared between nodes, anyone could run lots of bitcoin instances on a single computer
 590 2010-12-07 04:05:00 <Orbixx> I suppose computational power to bitcoins has an affect on real-world currency spendature.
 591 2010-12-07 04:05:01 <Orbixx> I can see the correlation.
 592 2010-12-07 04:05:09 <Orbixx> Heh.
 593 2010-12-07 04:05:12 <Orbixx> I have a lot to digest.
 594 2010-12-07 04:05:15 <MT`AwAy> still, even with a really low cpu, you have chances to generate bitcoins.... one day
 595 2010-12-07 04:05:19 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,estimate 1000
 596 2010-12-07 04:05:20 <gribble> 11774.79002286
 597 2010-12-07 04:05:26 <MT`AwAy> mh, not the right command
 598 2010-12-07 04:05:46 <Orbixx> Does the Linux version support GPUs?
 599 2010-12-07 04:05:46 <lolcat> ;;bc,cacl 1000
 600 2010-12-07 04:05:47 <gribble> Error: "bc,cacl" is not a valid command.
 601 2010-12-07 04:05:52 <lolcat> ;;bc,calc 1000
 602 2010-12-07 04:05:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 39 minutes, and 44 seconds
 603 2010-12-07 04:06:06 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: the official client has a "getwork" api function that let you use external miners contributed by the community
 604 2010-12-07 04:06:13 <MT`AwAy> those "miners" are mainly aimed at gpu
 605 2010-12-07 04:06:15 <MT`AwAy> see topic
 606 2010-12-07 04:06:23 <Orbixx> Thanks.
 607 2010-12-07 04:06:46 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: so if your cpu makes 1000 hash/sec, it'll likely take one year and five weeks to be sure to generate a block (you may also generate one right away, it's fully random)
 608 2010-12-07 04:07:15 <MT`AwAy> for info my core2 duo (920) generates on average 4000~5000 khash/sec
 609 2010-12-07 04:07:23 <MT`AwAy> (I meant 1000 khash/Sec)
 610 2010-12-07 04:08:10 <lolcat> I thougth for a moment your core2 duo was insanly fast
 611 2010-12-07 04:08:17 <MT`AwAy> :D
 612 2010-12-07 04:08:25 <MT`AwAy> I wish it was
 613 2010-12-07 04:08:41 <MT`AwAy> it's fast, it's just that people who run dozen of gpu like art /are/ insanely fast
 614 2010-12-07 04:09:53 <Orbixx> I'm failing to find GPU clients :<
 615 2010-12-07 04:10:03 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: even in the topic?
 616 2010-12-07 04:10:12 <Orbixx> Forums really aren't suited to tracking software development.
 617 2010-12-07 04:10:22 <MT`AwAy> yep
 618 2010-12-07 04:10:42 <Diablo-D3> wtf
 619 2010-12-07 04:10:55 <Diablo-D3> my c2d e8500 @ 3.16ghz only does 3 mhash
 620 2010-12-07 04:11:15 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: my core2 duo pwnz you!
 621 2010-12-07 04:11:31 <MT`AwAy> XD
 622 2010-12-07 04:11:32 <Diablo-D3> I doubt it
 623 2010-12-07 04:11:41 <lolcat> MT`AwAy: 3 mhas > 1000 khash
 624 2010-12-07 04:11:54 <MT`AwAy> lolcat: my cpu is 4000~5000 khash/sec
 625 2010-12-07 04:12:06 <Diablo-D3> are you sure its a duo and not a quad?
 626 2010-12-07 04:12:10 <MT`AwAy> it's a duo
 627 2010-12-07 04:12:18 <Diablo-D3> that sounds wrong then
 628 2010-12-07 04:12:19 <MT`AwAy> aaaaaaaa
 629 2010-12-07 04:12:20 <MT`AwAy> no
 630 2010-12-07 04:12:21 <MT`AwAy> sorry
 631 2010-12-07 04:12:24 <MT`AwAy> it's a i7
 632 2010-12-07 04:12:34 * MT`AwAy is really tired
 633 2010-12-07 04:12:36 <Diablo-D3> then thats a little more likely
 634 2010-12-07 04:12:47 <Orbixx> Is there a place that provides a general estimate as to the worth of 1 bit-coin to widely-accepted currency?
 635 2010-12-07 04:12:50 <Diablo-D3> its a quad then
 636 2010-12-07 04:12:59 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: http://bitcoinwatch.com/
 637 2010-12-07 04:13:02 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: that in itself is not a good question
 638 2010-12-07 04:13:08 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: but see MT`AwAy's url
 639 2010-12-07 04:13:23 <Diablo-D3> a lot of people are doing business in bitcoin at below market prices
 640 2010-12-07 04:13:27 <Diablo-D3> just because they like bitcoin
 641 2010-12-07 04:14:06 <Orbixx> By generating blocks, am I a 'node'?
 642 2010-12-07 04:14:16 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: just by running a bitcoin client, you are a "node"
 643 2010-12-07 04:14:16 <Diablo-D3> by existing, you are a node
 644 2010-12-07 04:14:21 <Orbixx> I see.
 645 2010-12-07 04:14:42 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: my radeon 4850 does 75 mhash, so *cough*
 646 2010-12-07 04:14:57 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: it was a joke with your 3mhash/sec
 647 2010-12-07 04:15:16 <Orbixx> How do I track how fast I'm hashing with the GUI?
 648 2010-12-07 04:15:20 <MT`AwAy> ah
 649 2010-12-07 04:15:23 <MT`AwAy> ok, I'm tired
 650 2010-12-07 04:15:25 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: its on the bottom
 651 2010-12-07 04:15:31 * MT`AwAy should go back to sleep
 652 2010-12-07 04:15:38 <Orbixx> All I see is 'Generating'.
 653 2010-12-07 04:15:50 <Orbixx> And an ever-increasing block amount.
 654 2010-12-07 04:15:55 <Diablo-D3> ahh thats why
 655 2010-12-07 04:16:01 <Diablo-D3> you cant generate while you're still downloading blocks
 656 2010-12-07 04:16:05 <Orbixx> Ah I see.
 657 2010-12-07 04:16:11 <Diablo-D3> its waiting for you to finish downloading before it starts
 658 2010-12-07 04:16:23 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: btw
 659 2010-12-07 04:16:26 <Orbixx> Presumably the amount of blocks is the same for everybody?
 660 2010-12-07 04:16:30 <Diablo-D3> using a cpu to do this is an absolute waste
 661 2010-12-07 04:16:31 <Diablo-D3> yes
 662 2010-12-07 04:16:31 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it is
 663 2010-12-07 04:16:41 <Diablo-D3>     "blocks" : 96110,
 664 2010-12-07 04:16:51 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: if you're looking for gpu miner, ask Diablo-D3
 665 2010-12-07 04:17:03 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: HI DIABLO
 666 2010-12-07 04:17:09 <Orbixx> Want to be friends? ;p
 667 2010-12-07 04:17:13 <Diablo-D3> lol
 668 2010-12-07 04:17:18 <Diablo-D3> you have two choices, mine or m0's
 669 2010-12-07 04:17:31 <Diablo-D3> mine is faster, but doesn't work on nvidia (due to driver bugs)
 670 2010-12-07 04:17:37 <Orbixx> I'm going to hazard a guess that it costs Bitcoins to purchase a GPU miner?
 671 2010-12-07 04:17:43 <Diablo-D3> no
 672 2010-12-07 04:17:43 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: no it doesn't
 673 2010-12-07 04:17:46 <Orbixx> Oh, okay.
 674 2010-12-07 04:17:49 <MT`AwAy> miners are opensource :)
 675 2010-12-07 04:17:51 <Diablo-D3> mines open source, so is m0's
 676 2010-12-07 04:17:55 <Orbixx> Yeah.
 677 2010-12-07 04:18:01 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.msg27048#msg27048
 678 2010-12-07 04:18:06 <Diablo-D3> official diablominer thread
 679 2010-12-07 04:18:10 <Orbixx> Sporting an 8800GTX here.
 680 2010-12-07 04:18:18 <Diablo-D3> er
 681 2010-12-07 04:18:19 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: so m0's miner it will be
 682 2010-12-07 04:18:23 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.0;all
 683 2010-12-07 04:18:27 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: yeah, use m0's
 684 2010-12-07 04:18:36 <Orbixx> ooo
 685 2010-12-07 04:18:38 <Orbixx> git!
 686 2010-12-07 04:18:40 <Orbixx> <3
 687 2010-12-07 04:18:42 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: thats also minorly a waste
 688 2010-12-07 04:18:48 <Diablo-D3> gefoces are really slow at mining
 689 2010-12-07 04:18:53 <Diablo-D3> because nvidia isnt good at anything
 690 2010-12-07 04:18:58 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: define "slow" :D
 691 2010-12-07 04:19:02 <Diablo-D3> well
 692 2010-12-07 04:19:06 <Diablo-D3> its much faster than cpu
 693 2010-12-07 04:19:11 <MT`AwAy> ok
 694 2010-12-07 04:19:11 <Diablo-D3> its just much slower than a radeon 5xxx
 695 2010-12-07 04:19:18 * MT`AwAy will try m0's miner too
 696 2010-12-07 04:19:35 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: nvidia loves to screw users in new and inventive ways
 697 2010-12-07 04:19:50 <ArtForz> my spreadsheet says 26Mh/s
 698 2010-12-07 04:19:58 <Diablo-D3> wow thats slow
 699 2010-12-07 04:20:02 <Diablo-D3> thats even worse than my 4850
 700 2010-12-07 04:20:08 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0 I guess
 701 2010-12-07 04:20:19 <Diablo-D3> yeah thats the m0 thread
 702 2010-12-07 04:20:19 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: I am not easily convinced without facts, but given you've coded something that interfaces with a GPU and I haven't, I'll not try to mock you since it's my belief nVidia is superior.
 703 2010-12-07 04:20:37 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: nvidia is probably going to go bankrupt in the next 2-3 years
 704 2010-12-07 04:20:59 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: their products perform slower for their intended tasks (gaming) per dollar, and they perform slower per watt
 705 2010-12-07 04:21:05 <Diablo-D3> adn the fastest card in existence isnt an nvidia card.
 706 2010-12-07 04:21:23 <Orbixx> According to who/what?
 707 2010-12-07 04:21:30 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: according to benchs
 708 2010-12-07 04:21:33 <MT`AwAy> benchs don't lie
 709 2010-12-07 04:21:38 <Diablo-D3> according to any reasonable benchmark that isnt engineered to make nvidia look good
 710 2010-12-07 04:21:43 <Orbixx> Interesting.
 711 2010-12-07 04:21:50 <Diablo-D3> and yes, they do exist
 712 2010-12-07 04:21:52 <Orbixx> Since when was this?
 713 2010-12-07 04:22:00 <Diablo-D3> oh, for about the past 2 years
 714 2010-12-07 04:22:10 <Orbixx> I was under the impression nvidia were rocking the market around the point of the 8800 series.
 715 2010-12-07 04:22:22 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: thats the last time they rocked anything
 716 2010-12-07 04:22:25 <Orbixx> Ah.
 717 2010-12-07 04:22:32 <Orbixx> I haven't really looked at things since then.
 718 2010-12-07 04:22:36 <Diablo-D3> they have not innovated a new design since 8xxx
 719 2010-12-07 04:22:40 <ArtForz> nvidia sucks for shader-bound GPGPU ever since 4xxx came out
 720 2010-12-07 04:22:53 <Diablo-D3> 8xxx the whole way through the new gtx 5xx are all the same chip
 721 2010-12-07 04:23:00 <Diablo-D3> they just keep die shrinking it and adding pipes
 722 2010-12-07 04:23:04 <Diablo-D3> they dont actually IMPROVE it
 723 2010-12-07 04:23:04 * MT`AwAy uses nvidia because 2 years ago installing ATI on linux was bound to fail with fucking fglrx driver crashing
 724 2010-12-07 04:23:16 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: yeah, which no longer applies
 725 2010-12-07 04:23:20 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: Just optimised?
 726 2010-12-07 04:23:24 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: barely.
 727 2010-12-07 04:23:40 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Fedora seem to have done away with the fglrx driver, must be a good sign.
 728 2010-12-07 04:23:47 <Diablo-D3> no, fedora didnt
 729 2010-12-07 04:23:59 <Diablo-D3> fedora just defaults to the gallium driver in... the next edition of fedora that isnt out yet iirc
 730 2010-12-07 04:24:06 <nanotube> hey, can anyone test if they can connect to the bitcoin node at bitcoin-otc.com?
 731 2010-12-07 04:24:06 <Diablo-D3> catalyst can still be installed
 732 2010-12-07 04:24:18 <doublec> ;bc,calc 120000
 733 2010-12-07 04:24:22 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 120000
 734 2010-12-07 04:24:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes, and 49 seconds
 735 2010-12-07 04:24:43 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: now, the interesting part here is, AMD is spending millions to improve open source linux drivers
 736 2010-12-07 04:24:51 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: they plan on eventually killing off catalyst
 737 2010-12-07 04:24:52 <Orbixx> Oh *really*?
 738 2010-12-07 04:25:04 <Orbixx> That *is* interesting.
 739 2010-12-07 04:25:07 <Diablo-D3> well, on linux anyways
 740 2010-12-07 04:25:31 <Diablo-D3> those programming reference manuals they released cost lawyer time
 741 2010-12-07 04:25:31 <Orbixx> The more games that come to Linux, the better imo.
 742 2010-12-07 04:25:34 <Diablo-D3> which is very expensive
 743 2010-12-07 04:25:42 <Diablo-D3> and they're also spending money on gallium
 744 2010-12-07 04:25:54 <Diablo-D3> nvidia has basically rejected the new gallium framework
 745 2010-12-07 04:26:05 <Diablo-D3> which is going to be hilarious when a future X server version doesnt work with their driver
 746 2010-12-07 04:26:20 [Noodles] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 747 2010-12-07 04:26:32 <Diablo-D3> <nvidia> we wont support gallium or wayland EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR
 748 2010-12-07 04:26:37 <Diablo-D3> <everyone else> goodbye.
 749 2010-12-07 04:27:10 * MT`AwAy don't do gaming, and nvidia display consoles fast enough
 750 2010-12-07 04:27:20 * Diablo-D3 does do gaming
 751 2010-12-07 04:27:29 <Diablo-D3> and catalyst works great
 752 2010-12-07 04:27:41 <Diablo-D3> I played supreme commander 2 from start to finish the other day
 753 2010-12-07 04:27:45 <Diablo-D3> worked great in wine
 754 2010-12-07 04:28:16 <MT`AwAy> the only game I sometimes play is klondike, with real cards
 755 2010-12-07 04:28:20 <Diablo-D3> anyhow
 756 2010-12-07 04:28:21 <Kiba> Director Of Sunlight Lab converses with Arronsw
 757 2010-12-07 04:28:22 <Orbixx> Nice ^^
 758 2010-12-07 04:28:26 <Kiba> two famous dudes!
 759 2010-12-07 04:28:26 <Orbixx> I simply cannot wait for Steam to adopt Linux.
 760 2010-12-07 04:28:28 <Orbixx> It will mark the changeover of game platform support.
 761 2010-12-07 04:28:41 <Diablo-D3> Steam isnt going to adopt Linux
 762 2010-12-07 04:28:53 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: I actually know the guy that ported steam and source to linux
 763 2010-12-07 04:29:00 <Diablo-D3> valve paid him a fair bit to do it
 764 2010-12-07 04:29:03 <Kiba> on bitcoin!
 765 2010-12-07 04:29:22 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: Oh?
 766 2010-12-07 04:29:47 <Diablo-D3> the new UI rendering code is partly based on the new windows-less code he wrote, except they threw a new UI on top of it
 767 2010-12-07 04:29:54 <Diablo-D3> and all the OSX code is essentially his
 768 2010-12-07 04:30:10 [Noodles] has joined
 769 2010-12-07 04:30:20 <Orbixx> But what makes you so sure it won't be coming to Linux?
 770 2010-12-07 04:30:28 <Diablo-D3> they already said it isnt
 771 2010-12-07 04:30:40 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: Companies change their minds just like people do.
 772 2010-12-07 04:30:41 <Diablo-D3> its probably because microsoft is fucking them over on their gold dev status
 773 2010-12-07 04:30:52 <Orbixx> (also what is the syntax for the bitcoin.conf?)
 774 2010-12-07 04:30:59 <Diablo-D3> microsoft can just stop valve from ever releasing another xbox game again, or updating current ones
 775 2010-12-07 04:31:10 <Diablo-D3> and valve also has special status that their windows bugs are actually fixed quickly
 776 2010-12-07 04:31:12 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: bitcoin.conf: var=value
 777 2010-12-07 04:31:20 <Diablo-D3> so, microsoft is probably threatening them with that
 778 2010-12-07 04:31:24 <Diablo-D3> so fuck microsoft
 779 2010-12-07 04:31:27 <Orbixx> Indeed.
 780 2010-12-07 04:31:35 <Diablo-D3> that said, source is a dx9 engine
 781 2010-12-07 04:31:48 <Diablo-D3> even the wonderful portal 2
 782 2010-12-07 04:31:53 <Diablo-D3> nothing new in the rendering pipeline here
 783 2010-12-07 04:32:00 <Diablo-D3> should work perfect in wine
 784 2010-12-07 04:32:05 <Orbixx> I'm sure I've seen DX10 support in recent source builds.
 785 2010-12-07 04:32:10 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: it does
 786 2010-12-07 04:32:20 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: I said 2, not 1
 787 2010-12-07 04:32:22 <Diablo-D3> I know 1 does
 788 2010-12-07 04:32:48 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: well, they do have dx98 supprt (dx9 + dx10 shaders)
 789 2010-12-07 04:33:07 <Diablo-D3> but who knows
 790 2010-12-07 04:33:17 <Diablo-D3> if portal 2 doesnt work in wine, Im going to bitch loudly
 791 2010-12-07 04:33:25 lispy has joined
 792 2010-12-07 04:33:29 <Orbixx> Hmm.
 793 2010-12-07 04:33:33 <Diablo-D3> that said, I think Im going to go to bed
 794 2010-12-07 04:33:34 <Orbixx> What OpenCL library should I be looking for to get this GUI client working?
 795 2010-12-07 04:33:37 <Diablo-D3> Ive been up far too long
 796 2010-12-07 04:33:50 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: the miners arent gui clients... or clients of any kind
 797 2010-12-07 04:33:54 <Orbixx> er
 798 2010-12-07 04:33:58 <Orbixx> Sorry, on autopilot.
 799 2010-12-07 04:34:05 <Diablo-D3> they connect to a running bitcoind or bitcoin --server
 800 2010-12-07 04:34:06 <Orbixx> I meant miner.
 801 2010-12-07 04:34:13 <lispy> I'm trying to understand why I should use bitcoin.  I found this on the wiki: http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#Why_should_I_use_Bitcoin  That gave me some triva but no explanations about "why".  For example, none of those help me understand why bitcoins are good or how they would improve the quality of my life.
 802 2010-12-07 04:34:14 <Diablo-D3> nvidia drivers already come with the right shit
 803 2010-12-07 04:34:51 <Diablo-D3> so if you're on debian or ubuntu, its just the matter of installing the right packages built from the drivers
 804 2010-12-07 04:35:26 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, need sleep
 805 2010-12-07 04:35:28 <Diablo-D3> night all
 806 2010-12-07 04:36:36 * Kiba rolf
 807 2010-12-07 04:36:45 <Kiba> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2793#comments
 808 2010-12-07 04:36:53 <Kiba> scroll all the way down
 809 2010-12-07 04:36:57 <Kiba> there's a warning about RMS
 810 2010-12-07 04:37:00 <nanotube> lispy: heh well, whether they would or not improve the quality of your life, is an open question... :)
 811 2010-12-07 04:38:25 <MT`AwAy> "Both actually burned everything that had been on the bed, and threw out the mattress." :D
 812 2010-12-07 04:38:43 <[Noodles]> lispy: it's freedom that improves the quality of your life. your account cant get suddenly frozen by someone, or transfers permitted, or charged back for no reason. noone tells you what you can and can not do with your 'cash', it's up to you
 813 2010-12-07 04:39:46 <Kiba> [Noodles]: you also have to be responsible for yourself
 814 2010-12-07 04:39:58 <Kiba> that mean not getting suckered into scams
 815 2010-12-07 04:40:22 <[Noodles]> sure, just like with non-virtual cash
 816 2010-12-07 04:40:34 <[Noodles]> if you give it someone, it's gone
 817 2010-12-07 04:40:40 <[Noodles]> +to
 818 2010-12-07 04:40:49 <nanotube> it's gone to where? :P
 819 2010-12-07 04:40:52 <nanotube> haha
 820 2010-12-07 04:41:01 <[Noodles]> you'll never know ^.^
 821 2010-12-07 04:41:17 <MT`AwAy> want an example of something stupid?
 822 2010-12-07 04:41:43 <nanotube> mmm... i've seen plenty of those before... :)
 823 2010-12-07 04:41:52 <[Noodles]> lol
 824 2010-12-07 04:41:53 <MT`AwAy> a regular customer renewed his services with me through paypal, everything fine. 2 weeks later paypal freezes the transaction, I provide information (returning customer, invoice, etc). 2 months later, paypal says "we refunded the customer"
 825 2010-12-07 04:42:19 <nanotube> haha that's paypal all right
 826 2010-12-07 04:42:24 <Kiba> somehow there's a large scale paypal scam
 827 2010-12-07 04:42:33 <Kiba> otherwise, paypal wouldn't be this agressive in their algorithm
 828 2010-12-07 04:42:35 <Lysacor> PP is a big scam... plain and simple
 829 2010-12-07 04:42:42 <Kiba> and evil
 830 2010-12-07 04:42:44 <MT`AwAy> same customer, paying each month through paypal for over one year, and suddently, pop
 831 2010-12-07 04:42:56 <Kiba> Peter Thiel help created it
 832 2010-12-07 04:42:57 <Kiba> but he left
 833 2010-12-07 04:43:09 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 834 2010-12-07 04:43:18 <Kiba> Killing Paypal.
 835 2010-12-07 04:43:28 <Kiba> is like trying to Kill TicketMaster
 836 2010-12-07 04:43:29 <nanotube> so... anyone want to try to connect to the bitcoin-otc.com node?
 837 2010-12-07 04:43:33 <nanotube> and tell me if it works?
 838 2010-12-07 04:43:35 <Kiba> both widely depised corporations
 839 2010-12-07 04:43:38 <MT`AwAy> anyway I hope moneybookers will approve my merchant account soon
 840 2010-12-07 04:44:14 <Lysacor> nanotube: bitcoin-otc.com node?
 841 2010-12-07 04:44:14 <MT`AwAy> (main point is "less fees", second main point is "easy for customer to pay with credit card")
 842 2010-12-07 04:44:25 <nanotube> Lysacor: i am running a bitcoind on the server.
 843 2010-12-07 04:44:38 <Kiba> what the node for?
 844 2010-12-07 04:44:39 <Lysacor> aaah
 845 2010-12-07 04:44:41 <nanotube> Lysacor: want to make sure that people can connect to it.
 846 2010-12-07 04:45:00 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: just look at your connection count, it should be a good indicator
 847 2010-12-07 04:45:07 <nanotube> Kiba: just to support the network. http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
 848 2010-12-07 04:45:30 <MT`AwAy> mh
 849 2010-12-07 04:45:32 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yea, i already know it works and is accepting incoming connections :) just want that extra bit of confirmation, before i add it to that wiki page
 850 2010-12-07 04:45:47 * MT`AwAy got over 10 fixed-ip permanent nodes
 851 2010-12-07 04:45:51 <MT`AwAy> maybe I should add some there
 852 2010-12-07 04:45:56 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: can't hurt. :)
 853 2010-12-07 04:46:40 <MT`AwAy> gah
 854 2010-12-07 04:46:42 <MT`AwAy> need to reg
 855 2010-12-07 04:46:43 <MT`AwAy> :(
 856 2010-12-07 04:46:43 <Lysacor> ah a Tor node, gotcha, sorry :P a bit dense... my wife is dying to get the WoW expansion tonight and I have heard nothing but that since I got home
 857 2010-12-07 04:46:54 <Orbixx> Surely the amount of blocks is ever-increasing?
 858 2010-12-07 04:46:59 <nanotube> Lysacor: no, it's not a torified node. just a regular bitcoin node on a vps.
 859 2010-12-07 04:47:04 <nanotube> Orbixx: yes it is
 860 2010-12-07 04:47:04 <Lysacor> aaah ok
 861 2010-12-07 04:47:12 <nanotube> goes up by 1 about once every 10 minutes.
 862 2010-12-07 04:47:15 <Orbixx> What happens when it reaches a point where it's a significant inconvenience to start afresh?
 863 2010-12-07 04:47:24 <nanotube> Orbixx: we haven't reached that point yet. :)
 864 2010-12-07 04:47:24 <[Noodles]> nanotube: works just fine for me
 865 2010-12-07 04:47:27 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: you'll be inconveniented
 866 2010-12-07 04:47:50 <Orbixx> nanotube: I assume design will be changed to accommodate?
 867 2010-12-07 04:47:52 <nanotube> Orbixx: but... there is some talk about trimming the blockchain by forgetting spent transactions... also to separate 'super nodes' from 'leaf nodes'
 868 2010-12-07 04:48:01 <nanotube> [Noodles]: thanks :)
 869 2010-12-07 04:48:12 <Orbixx> mhmm
 870 2010-12-07 04:48:19 <[Noodles]> welcome anytime ^.^
 871 2010-12-07 04:48:27 <Orbixx> So presumably transaction data is stored on nodes.
 872 2010-12-07 04:48:35 <Orbixx> What happens when a node goes offline no to return?
 873 2010-12-07 04:48:47 <Orbixx> Is data distributed like a parity, or is it lost?
 874 2010-12-07 04:48:48 dust__ has joined
 875 2010-12-07 04:48:50 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: you're editing the nodes page eh ? :)
 876 2010-12-07 04:49:11 <nanotube> transactions that have already made it into the block chain are in the block chain
 877 2010-12-07 04:49:14 <nanotube> Orbixx: --^
 878 2010-12-07 04:49:18 <Orbixx> Where is the block chain stored?
 879 2010-12-07 04:49:19 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: just finished
 880 2010-12-07 04:49:31 <nanotube> Orbixx: ones that haven't yet are stored in nodes' caches.
 881 2010-12-07 04:49:32 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: on all nodes
 882 2010-12-07 04:49:43 <MT`AwAy> the block chain is the thing you were downloading
 883 2010-12-07 04:49:44 <Orbixx> Ah, I see.
 884 2010-12-07 04:50:14 <MT`AwAy> a node receive transactions from other nodes, and when it generates successfully a hash, it includes all the received transaction in the block and transmits it
 885 2010-12-07 04:50:58 <MT`AwAy> (in fact the transactions are inserted in the block before the hash is generated, the hash is kinda like a seal on the block, changing anything in the block would change its hash)
 886 2010-12-07 04:51:20 <Kiba> wee!
 887 2010-12-07 04:51:25 <Kiba> I like it when people download my art
 888 2010-12-07 04:52:18 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: added mine too. :)
 889 2010-12-07 04:55:01 <MT`AwAy> I only added 4 nodes, one node per isp :)
 890 2010-12-07 04:55:17 davex___ has joined
 891 2010-12-07 04:55:23 <MT`AwAy> (and here in Japan we're already December 7th)
 892 2010-12-07 04:56:35 <MT`AwAy> I could make a bitcoin dns that returns the closest nodes based on country info :p
 893 2010-12-07 04:56:39 * Kiba learns how to do fanastic lineart
 894 2010-12-07 04:56:43 <Kiba> using the path tool!
 895 2010-12-07 05:00:46 <Kiba> arronsw thinks d00m!
 896 2010-12-07 05:00:56 <Kiba> @sbma44 @hackerkiba The best part will be the catastrophic economic collapse when someone finds a security vulnerability
 897 2010-12-07 05:01:08 <MT`AwAy> :D
 898 2010-12-07 05:01:23 genjix has joined
 899 2010-12-07 05:01:32 <MT`AwAy> which is possible to rollback, unless it had been silently abused for weeks
 900 2010-12-07 05:01:41 <MT`AwAy> ("ok, let's restart the world at block X")
 901 2010-12-07 05:02:38 <Kiba> meh
 902 2010-12-07 05:02:49 <Kiba> I somehow though Arronsw Swartz is a researcher
 903 2010-12-07 05:02:53 <Kiba> s/thouh/thought
 904 2010-12-07 05:02:56 <Kiba> he's just a regular programmer
 905 2010-12-07 05:03:08 <MT`AwAy> Aaron, not Arron
 906 2010-12-07 05:03:09 <MT`AwAy> :D
 907 2010-12-07 05:03:32 <Kiba> and his name is easy to get wrong too
 908 2010-12-07 05:04:17 <Kiba> WE do need a security audit though
 909 2010-12-07 05:04:48 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: find an auditor who accepts bitcoins? :D
 910 2010-12-07 05:04:55 <doublec> we need a libbitcoin and a security audit on that
 911 2010-12-07 05:05:11 <doublec> so that we have something that can be safely and easily embedded in other programs
 912 2010-12-07 05:05:15 <MT`AwAy> doublec: we need a security audit on bitcoin client as it's the most widely used one
 913 2010-12-07 05:05:47 <MT`AwAy> a lib would require a new security audit when embedded in anything else to make it "secure"
 914 2010-12-07 05:05:56 <doublec> anyone got any coverity contacts?
 915 2010-12-07 05:05:56 <MT`AwAy> (and an audit has some limitations too, anyway)
 916 2010-12-07 05:06:44 <MT`AwAy> anyway all the auditors I know would not accept auditing bitcoin in its current state
 917 2010-12-07 05:06:51 <xelister_> any news from Diablo-D3 miner
 918 2010-12-07 05:06:53 <xelister_> ?
 919 2010-12-07 05:07:16 <MT`AwAy> ask him?
 920 2010-12-07 05:07:42 <Lysacor> this bitcoind server is neat to work with, not as pretty as the gui in windows... but I have always been partial to CLI myself :P
 921 2010-12-07 05:08:24 <Lysacor> sorry, easily impressed here :P
 922 2010-12-07 05:11:43 <nanotube> Lysacor: hehe yea, bitcoind is nice.
 923 2010-12-07 05:12:41 <Lysacor> same underlying hashing system as the gui right?>
 924 2010-12-07 05:13:11 <nanotube> Lysacor: yes, it's the same except for the interface
 925 2010-12-07 05:15:29 <Kiba> hmm
 926 2010-12-07 05:15:39 <Kiba> I wonder what politicans are going to think of this
 927 2010-12-07 05:15:54 <Kiba> they probably ignore it
 928 2010-12-07 05:15:56 <Kiba> then laugh
 929 2010-12-07 05:15:59 <Kiba> then they fight
 930 2010-12-07 05:16:01 <Kiba> then we WIN!
 931 2010-12-07 05:17:50 TheAncientGoat has joined
 932 2010-12-07 05:20:58 acous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 933 2010-12-07 05:22:47 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 934 2010-12-07 05:26:19 remmy_ has joined
 935 2010-12-07 05:28:08 <doublec> hmm, bitcoind crashes in ParseHex on the N900
 936 2010-12-07 05:30:09 waves281 has quit (Quit: waves281)
 937 2010-12-07 05:32:38 <doublec> ah
 938 2010-12-07 05:32:40 <doublec> found it
 939 2010-12-07 05:33:01 <doublec> char's are unsigned and the code is doing: if (c == -1) where c is char
 940 2010-12-07 05:35:10 nanotube has left ("*poof*")
 941 2010-12-07 05:35:13 nanotube has joined
 942 2010-12-07 05:36:24 <MT`AwAy> doublec: N900 ?
 943 2010-12-07 05:36:36 <Orbixx> Does anybody have experience compiling pyopencl?
 944 2010-12-07 05:36:53 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Nokia N900, a Debian-based smartphone.
 945 2010-12-07 05:37:08 <doublec> MT`AwAy, a phone running linux
 946 2010-12-07 05:37:19 <nanotube> next: toasters.
 947 2010-12-07 05:37:20 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: I don't think bitcoin is portable
 948 2010-12-07 05:37:20 <nanotube> :)
 949 2010-12-07 05:37:30 <doublec> lolcat, bitcoind running and downloading the block chain on the N900
 950 2010-12-07 05:37:39 <MT`AwAy> :o
 951 2010-12-07 05:37:45 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: doublec has apparently ported it. :)
 952 2010-12-07 05:37:55 <Lysacor> lol well, you turn off generation, and miracles happen :P
 953 2010-12-07 05:38:10 <Lysacor> or are you generating on it too?
 954 2010-12-07 05:38:25 <doublec> heh, I'll try it when the blockchain is downloaded and see what khash I get
 955 2010-12-07 05:38:34 <Orbixx> Having trouble getting m0's miner to work :<
 956 2010-12-07 05:38:36 <doublec> really need a neon version of the sha calculation though
 957 2010-12-07 05:38:54 <Lysacor> I bet 10 BTC it doesn't exceed 500 :P
 958 2010-12-07 05:38:59 <doublec> I'll post a quick note in the forums
 959 2010-12-07 05:39:07 <Lysacor> would be nice to be wrong! :P
 960 2010-12-07 05:39:18 <Lysacor> 500khash :P
 961 2010-12-07 05:39:22 <nanotube> Lysacor: haha, my atom n270 1.6ghz gets less than 500
 962 2010-12-07 05:39:33 <nanotube> so unless they stuck a monster cpu into that phone... i bet the same.
 963 2010-12-07 05:39:35 <[Noodles]> yeah, mine does 420 max
 964 2010-12-07 05:39:48 <Orbixx> ;;bc,calc 2000
 965 2010-12-07 05:39:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 28 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes, and 52 seconds
 966 2010-12-07 05:39:50 <Lysacor> well at least you are generating :P there is no shame in that
 967 2010-12-07 05:40:04 <nanotube> Orbixx: look into the mining ,,pool as well
 968 2010-12-07 05:40:04 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
 969 2010-12-07 05:40:16 <Orbixx> nanotube: Hmm?
 970 2010-12-07 05:40:40 <nanotube> Orbixx: if you're generating at 2000 khps, your best bet on actually generating some bitcoins is the pool.
 971 2010-12-07 05:40:42 <Lysacor> yep, doublec has one running, that is the site
 972 2010-12-07 05:40:45 <[Noodles]> join the pool, it's all nice and wet, ya know
 973 2010-12-07 05:40:55 <Orbixx> nanotube: I see.
 974 2010-12-07 05:40:56 <nanotube> jump in, the water's fine!
 975 2010-12-07 05:40:59 <nanotube> heh
 976 2010-12-07 05:41:04 <Lysacor> we are at 120khash collectively right now
 977 2010-12-07 05:41:12 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 120000
 978 2010-12-07 05:41:12 <[Noodles]> Mhash
 979 2010-12-07 05:41:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes, and 49 seconds
 980 2010-12-07 05:41:13 <Lysacor> (now that I added my GPU back in) :P
 981 2010-12-07 05:41:21 <nanotube> nice
 982 2010-12-07 05:41:27 <Lysacor> sorry M, right
 983 2010-12-07 05:41:33 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
 984 2010-12-07 05:41:43 darrob has joined
 985 2010-12-07 05:42:37 <Lysacor> once the cuda code gets all straight, man... the potential of that pool is enormous... until the next difficulty calculation :P
 986 2010-12-07 05:43:30 <Lysacor> and the 4way
 987 2010-12-07 05:44:01 <Orbixx> Gah.
 988 2010-12-07 05:44:24 <Orbixx> Can't find the req libraries.
 989 2010-12-07 05:44:25 <Lysacor> oh doublec, I meant to ask, how is the CPU usage on the server on the new code, still looking like hash verification bottlenecks?
 990 2010-12-07 05:44:37 <Orbixx> And this is before I even attempt GPU calculations.
 991 2010-12-07 05:44:49 <doublec> Lysacor, looks better - there's less clients though
 992 2010-12-07 05:44:51 <Lysacor> the search is worth it, keep going!
 993 2010-12-07 05:45:10 <Orbixx> I get the feeling all this would be far easier on Windows.
 994 2010-12-07 05:45:24 * Orbixx resists
 995 2010-12-07 05:45:35 <Lysacor> true, give it time, the wayward children will return :) and I think that one guy burning in 24 cores would definitely have been a nice continued addition
 996 2010-12-07 05:45:48 enki_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 997 2010-12-07 05:45:51 <nanotube> Orbixx: what are you trying to do, exactly?
 998 2010-12-07 05:46:09 <[Noodles]> Lysacor: whats your GPU adding? mine does 15-19M (maybe depending on how bad the SL-viewer lags, which runs besides it)
 999 2010-12-07 05:46:10 <Orbixx> nanotube: Primarily start mining with my GPU.
1000 2010-12-07 05:46:11 <nanotube> Orbixx: also, note that many gpu miners, if not post, run on linux... so not sure if win will be any easier.
1001 2010-12-07 05:46:22 <nanotube> s/post/most/
1002 2010-12-07 05:46:30 <Lysacor> Noodles: 16-17M here
1003 2010-12-07 05:46:33 dust__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1004 2010-12-07 05:46:55 <[Noodles]> what card?
1005 2010-12-07 05:47:01 <Lysacor> Noodles: GTX 250
1006 2010-12-07 05:47:19 <[Noodles]> mine's a gtx260
1007 2010-12-07 05:47:51 <[Noodles]> giving me 40M on m0's :/
1008 2010-12-07 05:48:01 <Lysacor> not too far off :) brb gotta go buy the WoW expansion for my wife... it is almost midnight here... yeah 36M on m0m's here
1009 2010-12-07 05:48:06 <Lysacor> actually 32M
1010 2010-12-07 05:48:22 Lysacor is now known as Lysacor-afk
1011 2010-12-07 05:48:22 <[Noodles]> well, mine is oc'd a little ^.^
1012 2010-12-07 05:48:41 <Lysacor-afk> tried that on mine... crashed a bit... could get it to 38 though stable
1013 2010-12-07 05:48:46 <Orbixx> Trying to get m0m's working here.
1014 2010-12-07 05:48:53 <[Noodles]> from 575 to 680
1015 2010-12-07 05:48:58 <Orbixx> pyopencl is proving difficult to compile on Fedora
1016 2010-12-07 05:49:00 <doublec> post about the N900 version with binary: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2125.0
1017 2010-12-07 05:49:57 <doublec> should I worry that I now have random strangers connecting to my phone
1018 2010-12-07 05:50:20 <[Noodles]> tweaking m0's i get up to 47M, desktop-usage isnt fun then though
1019 2010-12-07 05:50:20 <doublec> since it's a node in the bitcoin network
1020 2010-12-07 05:50:26 <nanotube> doublec: haha maybe... if security vulns are discovered in bitcoind...
1021 2010-12-07 05:50:34 <doublec> hehe
1022 2010-12-07 05:50:53 <[Noodles]> and it's way to expensive anyways compared to my ati cards
1023 2010-12-07 05:50:53 <doublec> I might use the -connect switch and connect to my server node
1024 2010-12-07 05:51:03 <MT`AwAy> and -noirc
1025 2010-12-07 05:51:41 <doublec> right
1026 2010-12-07 05:52:06 <doublec> it's going to take a while to get this block chain down...
1027 2010-12-07 05:52:07 <Orbixx> Hmm.
1028 2010-12-07 05:52:16 <Orbixx> My balance just changed to 50.00
1029 2010-12-07 05:53:19 <Orbixx> JUST KIDDING
1030 2010-12-07 05:53:41 <[Noodles]> no worries, just give 'em to me and all be good
1031 2010-12-07 05:56:35 <Kiba> Julian Assange I thought was a black haired guy but he was blond
1032 2010-12-07 05:59:55 lfm has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1033 2010-12-07 06:06:39 redengin has joined
1034 2010-12-07 06:08:02 <Orbixx> Kiba: He's gone grey.
1035 2010-12-07 06:08:10 <Orbixx> Oh, wait, you said 'was'.
1036 2010-12-07 06:08:28 <Orbixx> How would one begin accepting Bitcoins as payment?
1037 2010-12-07 06:08:34 <Orbixx> Like, programmatically?
1038 2010-12-07 06:08:42 <Kiba> like payment processing?
1039 2010-12-07 06:08:51 <Kiba> mtgox have one of those but I did not get it working yet
1040 2010-12-07 06:09:00 <Orbixx> Correct.
1041 2010-12-07 06:09:39 <doublec> Orbixx, run bitcoind on the server. Use the json-rpc interface to monitor receipt of funds and to send funds.
1042 2010-12-07 06:11:01 * MT`AwAy thinks Julian is probably the kind of guy who changes his hair color for each flight
1043 2010-12-07 06:11:40 <nanotube> Orbixx: or you can use one of the merchant apis. mtgox has one, mybitcoin has one
1044 2010-12-07 06:12:52 <Orbixx> I happen to run a somewhat popular web host.
1045 2010-12-07 06:13:06 <Orbixx> Well, not household name popular, but it's up there in Google.
1046 2010-12-07 06:13:37 <Orbixx> Wouldn't mind testing the water with accepting BTC.
1047 2010-12-07 06:14:39 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: I implemented bitcoin (I provide domains/web hosting/vps) in less than 2 hours :)
1048 2010-12-07 06:15:06 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Interesting, what's your site?
1049 2010-12-07 06:15:16 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: https://www.kalyhost.com/?Currency=BTC
1050 2010-12-07 06:16:24 <MT`AwAy> basically, for each order to be paid in bitcoins I generate a bitcoin address, and when the funds are received the order is confirmed
1051 2010-12-07 06:17:09 <MT`AwAy> (I use a 3 confirmations rule, meaning orders are confirmed within ~30 minutes)
1052 2010-12-07 06:17:24 Lysacor-afk is now known as Lysacor
1053 2010-12-07 06:19:29 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: your prices are for shared hosting?
1054 2010-12-07 06:19:45 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: depends where you are looking
1055 2010-12-07 06:19:55 <nanotube> on kalyhost.com. :)
1056 2010-12-07 06:20:06 <nanotube> hosting.html
1057 2010-12-07 06:20:08 <MT`AwAy> in "VPS" prices are for VPS, in "Hosting" prices are for web hosting
1058 2010-12-07 06:20:35 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: ah, there's no 'vps' link in the top menu
1059 2010-12-07 06:20:36 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2126.0
1060 2010-12-07 06:20:36 <jgarzik> [PATCH] bitcoin build fix, for new GNU assembler
1061 2010-12-07 06:20:37 <nanotube> so i missed that
1062 2010-12-07 06:21:15 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: I know, the guy I hired to manage the site disappeared a few weeks ago, need to find a new contractor, but I'm having troubles finding anyone reliable on internet :p
1063 2010-12-07 06:21:42 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: can't be very hard to just add a link to the menu, that points to vps.html
1064 2010-12-07 06:21:55 <MT`AwAy> :)
1065 2010-12-07 06:22:00 <MT`AwAy> there's so many things to fix
1066 2010-12-07 06:22:00 <a_meteorite> Does anyone know about being in the pool with OS X?
1067 2010-12-07 06:22:24 <a_meteorite> I'm assuming the linux one will work
1068 2010-12-07 06:22:28 <a_meteorite> mostly
1069 2010-12-07 06:22:41 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: heh
1070 2010-12-07 06:22:50 <nanotube> a_meteorite: no idea... just try it. :)
1071 2010-12-07 06:26:29 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Presumably you run bitcoin as a daemon?
1072 2010-12-07 06:27:38 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: yes
1073 2010-12-07 06:27:43 <xelister_> a_meteorite: better just buy coins at mtgox.com
1074 2010-12-07 06:27:46 <MT`AwAy> and I use JSON-RPC  :)
1075 2010-12-07 06:28:00 <xelister_> btw, wtf 0.18 USD/BTC? wat?
1076 2010-12-07 06:29:51 <nanotube> a_meteorite: re what xelister_ says: indeed, if you're doing it for 'pure profit', and pay for electricity, joining the pool doesn't pay.
1077 2010-12-07 06:30:01 <doublec> a_meteorite, someone posted a mac os x binary for the remote miner in the forums'
1078 2010-12-07 06:30:07 <nanotube> a_meteorite: but if you're doing it 'for fun, and to support the network', it's all good. :)
1079 2010-12-07 06:30:19 <nanotube> (or if you get free electricity)
1080 2010-12-07 06:30:40 <nanotube> doublec: could you link me to the pool thread on the forum?
1081 2010-12-07 06:30:50 <Kiba> nanotube: you're lazy
1082 2010-12-07 06:30:56 <nanotube> Kiba: yes i am.
1083 2010-12-07 06:31:14 <nanotube> but i figured he might have it handy in the awesome bar. :)
1084 2010-12-07 06:31:38 <doublec> nanotube, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.msg27651#msg27651
1085 2010-12-07 06:32:03 <Kiba> what does it mean when address not found in the block being solved, doublec
1086 2010-12-07 06:32:37 <nanotube> doublec: thanks :)
1087 2010-12-07 06:32:46 <doublec> Kiba, it means it hasn't seen any other remote miner using the same address to receive bitcoins as the one you are using
1088 2010-12-07 06:32:49 <Lysacor> xelister_: I feel your pain, it is just a matter of time
1089 2010-12-07 06:33:12 <nanotube> doublec: does puddinpop monitor the thread? if i post some ideas there he'll see? (or maybe you, are you now a co-dev?)
1090 2010-12-07 06:33:18 <xelister_> a_meteorite: you can dick around with this for few months
1091 2010-12-07 06:33:32 <xelister_> a_meteorite: or you can just send 10 USD and get your coins in few days
1092 2010-12-07 06:33:48 <xelister_> or buy 5770 or similar radeon card and have 50 coins each few weeks
1093 2010-12-07 06:34:04 <[Noodles]> nanotube: here's puddinpops thread, for ideas and stuff http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
1094 2010-12-07 06:34:20 <Lysacor> Kiba: Also, the more clients you register, the better :D
1095 2010-12-07 06:34:25 <doublec> nanotube, yes he monitors the thread
1096 2010-12-07 06:34:33 <xelister_> Lysacor: what is causing this drop?
1097 2010-12-07 06:34:36 <doublec> I'm not a co-dev
1098 2010-12-07 06:34:50 <xelister_> anyone else too has idea? who is causing this drop ~0.30 -> 0.18
1099 2010-12-07 06:34:55 <xelister_> *what
1100 2010-12-07 06:35:00 <a_meteorite> heh
1101 2010-12-07 06:35:02 <[Noodles]> oh, it was that above too, i thought that was the join-the-pool-thread ^.^
1102 2010-12-07 06:35:05 <[Noodles]> silly me
1103 2010-12-07 06:35:12 <a_meteorite> 5770 isn't that expensive
1104 2010-12-07 06:35:21 <Lysacor> Lysacor: I am no market expert, but it is just a rash of sellers, looking to get LRUSD, probably looking to cash out. Just speculation on my part
1105 2010-12-07 06:35:21 <a_meteorite> dunno how much 50 btc is worth
1106 2010-12-07 06:35:30 <Lysacor> xelister I mean :P
1107 2010-12-07 06:35:38 <Orbixx> a_meteorite: ~$2.50
1108 2010-12-07 06:35:45 <Orbixx> Slightly less at the moment apparently though.
1109 2010-12-07 06:35:58 <doublec> ;;google calc 50 * 0.18
1110 2010-12-07 06:35:59 <gribble> 50 * 0.18 = 9
1111 2010-12-07 06:35:59 <xelister_> what?
1112 2010-12-07 06:36:05 <xelister_> Orbixx: doing math much?
1113 2010-12-07 06:36:18 <Orbixx> xelister_: I must've missed a digit somewhere ;p
1114 2010-12-07 06:36:27 <xelister_> 50 btc is worth 8..15 USD nowdays (the exchange rate changes rapidly)
1115 2010-12-07 06:36:29 <Orbixx> It's 6am here.
1116 2010-12-07 06:36:34 * Orbixx shrugs
1117 2010-12-07 06:36:36 <doublec> you were just trying to get a cheap deal on 50 bitcoins ;)
1118 2010-12-07 06:36:54 <xelister_> Orbixx: oh right, I will buy up to 5000 BTC from you
1119 2010-12-07 06:36:56 <Orbixx> Does anybody have any experience compiling pyopencl? :<
1120 2010-12-07 06:36:59 <xelister_> Orbixx: interested? :>
1121 2010-12-07 06:37:07 <ArtForz> 5770...
1122 2010-12-07 06:37:12 <xelister_> Orbixx: I have experience in getting pyopencl to work
1123 2010-12-07 06:37:12 <a_meteorite> hmm, so not much...
1124 2010-12-07 06:37:17 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 160000
1125 2010-12-07 06:37:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 12 hours, 14 minutes, and 7 seconds
1126 2010-12-07 06:37:27 <Orbixx> xelister_: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lOpenCL
1127 2010-12-07 06:37:34 <xelister_> Orbixx: my experience is: it sucks donkey cock
1128 2010-12-07 06:37:38 <Orbixx> python configure.py --cl-inc-dir=/usr/local/cuda/include --cl-lib-dir=/usr/lib64/nvidia --cl-libname=OpenCL
1129 2010-12-07 06:37:48 <Orbixx> ... Ah.
1130 2010-12-07 06:37:57 <xelister_> Orbixx: that is why I switched to diablos-d3's miner. But it also suck cocks, just in other ways
1131 2010-12-07 06:38:00 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: install from your distro
1132 2010-12-07 06:38:09 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Fedora doesn't have the package.
1133 2010-12-07 06:38:16 <xelister_> Orbixx: but diablo's seem to work fine everywhere except for 5970 (where it has like half speed it seems)
1134 2010-12-07 06:38:41 <ArtForz> I suspect diablos is also broken on other multiGPU setups
1135 2010-12-07 06:38:41 <Orbixx> xelister_: Working with an nvidia chipset here.
1136 2010-12-07 06:38:43 <xelister_> python opencl is packed for ubuntu and debian btw
1137 2010-12-07 06:38:58 <xelister_> ArtForz: Im still not sure though is m0m's working or not on my multi gpu system
1138 2010-12-07 06:39:21 <xelister_> ArtForz: wouldn't you have a moment to run ubuntu based system on one of 5970's and see if the speed is as expected or half
1139 2010-12-07 06:39:27 <nanotube> [Noodles]: thanks, doublec already hooked me up :)
1140 2010-12-07 06:39:31 <ArtForz> err... why not run on -testnet for a few hours and check expected vs. gotten blocks?
1141 2010-12-07 06:40:03 <ArtForz> full vs. half should be pretty obvious over 50-100 blocks or so
1142 2010-12-07 06:40:06 <xelister_> what is expected generation speed on testnet with 5970 (not o.c. - 530 M)
1143 2010-12-07 06:40:39 <ArtForz> sec
1144 2010-12-07 06:41:03 <ArtForz> about 44s/block
1145 2010-12-07 06:41:19 <xelister_> how to calculate this? or can irc bot do that
1146 2010-12-07 06:41:23 <Orbixx> Does mtgox charge for transaction processing?
1147 2010-12-07 06:41:32 <ArtForz> testnet diff is currently 5.33
1148 2010-12-07 06:42:00 <ArtForz> 5.33 * 2^32 / 530M = 43.2
1149 2010-12-07 06:42:52 <Kiba> wee!
1150 2010-12-07 06:43:00 <Kiba> some people just don't think bitcoin are useful
1151 2010-12-07 06:43:01 <[Noodles]> Orbixx: trades-fees are 0.65%
1152 2010-12-07 06:43:08 <Kiba> it's like saying twitter is not useful!
1153 2010-12-07 06:43:41 <Orbixx> [Noodles]: Does that cover the merchant services?
1154 2010-12-07 06:44:23 <[Noodles]> no idea, never used, or looked into it
1155 2010-12-07 06:44:46 <nanotube> Kiba: well the usefulness of twitter is quite debatable. :)
1156 2010-12-07 06:44:53 <[Noodles]> but it's actually like funding/withdrawing, which is free
1157 2010-12-07 06:45:04 <Kiba> I like to think of it as an information network, ya see.
1158 2010-12-07 06:45:05 <MT`AwAy> here from Japan, trading BTC to JPY causes a ~15% fees if using mtgox
1159 2010-12-07 06:45:13 <Kiba> it's not a social network
1160 2010-12-07 06:45:17 <Kiba> but an information network
1161 2010-12-07 06:45:29 <Kiba> "Yo I discover this thing called bitcoin!"
1162 2010-12-07 06:45:43 <Kiba> RT "Yo I discover this thing called bitcoin!"
1163 2010-12-07 06:45:45 <Kiba> and so on
1164 2010-12-07 06:45:52 <Kiba> information spread throughout the twittering network
1165 2010-12-07 06:46:08 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: you just need to spread bitcoin in japan, so you have more willing users to trade goxusd for jpy directly. :)
1166 2010-12-07 06:46:14 <nanotube> or even bitcoins for jpy
1167 2010-12-07 06:46:44 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: that's what I do with btcex
1168 2010-12-07 06:46:45 <Kiba> don't you have a genuine linux user group in Japan?
1169 2010-12-07 06:47:01 <Kiba> introduce bitcoin to linux hackers there
1170 2010-12-07 06:47:02 <a_meteorite> so where's the file bitcoinmineropencl.cl if you want to do opencl?
1171 2010-12-07 06:47:08 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: the only local lug only contains people from other countries working in japan who still have their US bank account
1172 2010-12-07 06:47:25 <Kiba> god dman...
1173 2010-12-07 06:47:30 <Kiba> ruby user group
1174 2010-12-07 06:47:32 <nanotube> really the linux community is so small in japan? i'm surprised...
1175 2010-12-07 06:47:51 <Kiba> Japan invented ruby
1176 2010-12-07 06:47:59 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: yep, they did
1177 2010-12-07 06:48:00 <Kiba> now it gets to credit itself bitcoin
1178 2010-12-07 06:48:00 <a_meteorite> argh, I'm stupid
1179 2010-12-07 06:48:03 <a_meteorite> src/opencl
1180 2010-12-07 06:48:08 <Kiba> which is dubious
1181 2010-12-07 06:48:21 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: the real japanese community in japan is too afraid to go outside, I think
1182 2010-12-07 06:48:29 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: hahaha i see...
1183 2010-12-07 06:48:30 <Orbixx> bitcoin is written in ruby?
1184 2010-12-07 06:48:30 <Kiba> lol
1185 2010-12-07 06:48:35 <nanotube> Orbixx: no, cpp
1186 2010-12-07 06:48:41 <Orbixx> oh thank god for that
1187 2010-12-07 06:48:42 <Kiba> Orbixx: that would be crazy
1188 2010-12-07 06:48:44 <nanotube> heh
1189 2010-12-07 06:49:05 <Kiba> Satoshi would better cover up his track too
1190 2010-12-07 06:49:16 <Orbixx> Does anybody use mtgox for payment processing? ^^
1191 2010-12-07 06:49:21 <Orbixx> anybody here*
1192 2010-12-07 06:49:22 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: why would it be in ruby ?
1193 2010-12-07 06:49:25 <Kiba> didn't have it working
1194 2010-12-07 06:49:36 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: I don't know, I just got the impression it was for a scary moment.
1195 2010-12-07 06:49:39 <nanotube> Orbixx: i think Orbixx was just conflating kiba's talk of ruby and bitcoin
1196 2010-12-07 06:49:51 <Orbixx> Correct.
1197 2010-12-07 06:49:54 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: I don't (don't feel secure enough with people hiding their identity)
1198 2010-12-07 06:50:05 <Kiba> The Japanese aren't that notable for their software
1199 2010-12-07 06:50:07 <Kiba> hardware maybe
1200 2010-12-07 06:50:11 <Kiba> but software is a blah
1201 2010-12-07 06:50:18 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: vocaloid?
1202 2010-12-07 06:50:18 <nanotube> bitcoin is software
1203 2010-12-07 06:50:31 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: bitcoin is not japanese
1204 2010-12-07 06:50:35 <Kiba> we don't even know if Satoshi is Japanese
1205 2010-12-07 06:50:41 <Kiba> he never spoke a word of Japanese
1206 2010-12-07 06:50:43 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: anyway here the software industry is concentrated on robots and AI
1207 2010-12-07 06:50:47 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: i was responding to 'software is a blah', not the japanese bits.
1208 2010-12-07 06:50:56 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: awesome. That's long term project though.
1209 2010-12-07 06:51:08 <nanotube> robots \o/
1210 2010-12-07 06:51:48 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Would you mind sharing your bitcoin processing code? :>
1211 2010-12-07 06:51:52 <MT`AwAy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFVlzUAZkHY
1212 2010-12-07 06:52:13 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it's code written for my framework, it wouldn't work well without it
1213 2010-12-07 06:52:18 <Orbixx> Ah I see.
1214 2010-12-07 06:52:20 <Orbixx> Custom framework?
1215 2010-12-07 06:52:23 <MT`AwAy> yep
1216 2010-12-07 06:52:36 <Orbixx> It would at least give me a brief insight, perhaps.
1217 2010-12-07 06:52:38 <MT`AwAy> with special components allowing handling of domains/web hosting/vps in real time
1218 2010-12-07 06:53:35 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: did you try to pass an order on my site to see how the payment page looked like?
1219 2010-12-07 06:53:41 <Orbixx> No.
1220 2010-12-07 06:53:49 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: nice video :)
1221 2010-12-07 06:53:52 * Orbixx tries
1222 2010-12-07 06:53:52 <MT`AwAy> (no need to pay, just look at the final page)
1223 2010-12-07 06:54:36 <MT`AwAy> when you're on the final page, you get a bitcoin address where you can send coins to pay for your order (provided you didn't buy something free)
1224 2010-12-07 06:55:02 <MT`AwAy> when you send coins, they appear immediatly in "unconfirmed" but requires 3 confirmations before appearing in "confirmed"
1225 2010-12-07 06:55:18 <MT`AwAy> once the amount of received coins is >= the order amount, the order is confirmed and product delivered
1226 2010-12-07 06:55:27 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: I assume you run a cron?
1227 2010-12-07 06:55:34 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: no, I run an internal thread
1228 2010-12-07 06:55:37 <Orbixx> Ah.
1229 2010-12-07 06:55:46 <MT`AwAy> my PHP has some custom modifications :p
1230 2010-12-07 06:55:48 <Orbixx> Loops every x seconds?
1231 2010-12-07 06:56:16 <MT`AwAy> loops every X seconds (x being computed as the seconds until next event)
1232 2010-12-07 06:56:30 <MT`AwAy> and can be waken up to run background process through ipc
1233 2010-12-07 06:57:07 <Orbixx> Does bitcoind have to be restarted with a different address or something then?
1234 2010-12-07 06:57:12 <Orbixx> For each payment?
1235 2010-12-07 06:57:14 <MT`AwAy> no
1236 2010-12-07 06:57:23 <MT`AwAy> a bitcoin server can handle multiple bitcoin addresses
1237 2010-12-07 06:57:24 <Orbixx> You add addresses via the RPC?
1238 2010-12-07 06:57:26 <MT`AwAy> (and will, anyway)
1239 2010-12-07 06:57:28 <MT`AwAy> yep
1240 2010-12-07 06:57:29 <Orbixx> Aha.
1241 2010-12-07 06:57:40 <Orbixx> so basically
1242 2010-12-07 06:57:50 <MT`AwAy>     $addr = $client->getNewAddress('ORDER:'.$order->getId());
1243 2010-12-07 06:58:00 <Orbixx> Receive order, set up address, receive payment, wait for confirmation, confirm, delete address?
1244 2010-12-07 06:58:13 <MT`AwAy> you can't delete an address in bitcoin yet :p
1245 2010-12-07 06:58:30 <MT`AwAy> for now I keep the generated addresses, and plan to write re-use code if nothing is added in bitcoin to delete those
1246 2010-12-07 06:58:38 <Orbixx> uhuh
1247 2010-12-07 06:58:45 <Orbixx> generate one address per client or something
1248 2010-12-07 06:58:56 <MT`AwAy>       $total = (int)round($client->getReceivedByAddress($bean->Address, 3) * 100000000); // 3 confirmations
1249 2010-12-07 06:59:07 <MT`AwAy> one address per client can be good if you implement a wallet-like system
1250 2010-12-07 06:59:13 <MT`AwAy> just like I did on https://smsz.net/
1251 2010-12-07 06:59:29 <Orbixx> heh
1252 2010-12-07 06:59:30 <Orbixx> nice
1253 2010-12-07 06:59:56 remmy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1254 2010-12-07 07:00:10 <MT`AwAy> internally I store bitcoin in their native format (64bit integers)
1255 2010-12-07 07:00:32 <Orbixx> I would've figured a string would be a better format, no?
1256 2010-12-07 07:00:38 <MT`AwAy> hence the * 100000000
1257 2010-12-07 07:01:04 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: integer is the best format for money, you can add/sub easily (unlike strings) and you will never lose precision (unlike float/double)
1258 2010-12-07 07:01:18 <Orbixx> oh, you mean the currency
1259 2010-12-07 07:01:24 <Orbixx> I thought you meant the address
1260 2010-12-07 07:01:26 <MT`AwAy> ah
1261 2010-12-07 07:01:26 <MT`AwAy> :D
1262 2010-12-07 07:01:31 <MT`AwAy> na, the address is a string
1263 2010-12-07 07:01:34 <ArtForz> or use Decimal with precision=8 ;)
1264 2010-12-07 07:01:51 <MT`AwAy> when storing money, using the smallest unit for the given currency is usually the best
1265 2010-12-07 07:01:51 <Orbixx> Decimal is best in SQL.
1266 2010-12-07 07:02:13 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: that's for SQL, but when you get the data in - say - php, it may lose precision when converted to float
1267 2010-12-07 07:02:23 <MT`AwAy> unless you multiply in your query, but it's not really nice
1268 2010-12-07 07:03:03 <ArtForz> python has a Decimal module in std lib
1269 2010-12-07 07:03:36 <MT`AwAy> thinking in cents is usually not a problem for most currencies
1270 2010-12-07 07:03:51 <MT`AwAy> (well, bitcoins have a slightly more decimals than most currencies, but well)
1271 2010-12-07 07:04:07 <ArtForz> yep, microcents
1272 2010-12-07 07:04:45 <Orbixx> I will hate the day that retailers adopt BTC.
1273 2010-12-07 07:04:45 <Orbixx> YOURS TODAY FOR ONLY 14.99999995 BTC
1274 2010-12-07 07:04:48 <ArtForz> kidna neat part: you can even pass Decimal as a drop-in replacement for float to the json parser factory
1275 2010-12-07 07:05:56 <MT`AwAy> I believe the bitcoind api should receive integers since bitcoin internally use those, and the json api is made to communicate with a wide range of other languages, not just python
1276 2010-12-07 07:05:56 <MT`AwAy> :)
1277 2010-12-07 07:06:17 <nanotube> Orbixx: heh, i'm not sure they'll have enough restraint to leave that last 5 a 5. :)
1278 2010-12-07 07:06:22 <Orbixx> haha
1279 2010-12-07 07:06:36 <ArtForz> I think bitcoins json stuff internally uses doubles (...)
1280 2010-12-07 07:06:49 <MT`AwAy> talking about bitcoin itself :p
1281 2010-12-07 07:06:56 <ArtForz> yep :/
1282 2010-12-07 07:07:18 <MT`AwAy> [16:05:58] <ArtForz> I think bitcoins json stuff internally uses doubles (...) <- may lose precision, nah?
1283 2010-12-07 07:07:30 <MT`AwAy> if so, reason more to switch to int
1284 2010-12-07 07:07:42 <Orbixx> Presumably I could run bitcoind on a remote server and call it remotely with json?
1285 2010-12-07 07:07:55 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: yep, just use rpcallowip=<server ip>
1286 2010-12-07 07:08:00 <MT`AwAy> or rpcallowip=* if you're brave
1287 2010-12-07 07:08:20 <Orbixx> I see.
1288 2010-12-07 07:08:31 <MT`AwAy> you could also enable ssl for rpc
1289 2010-12-07 07:08:33 <MT`AwAy> in this case
1290 2010-12-07 07:08:42 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=rpcssl
1291 2010-12-07 07:08:58 <Orbixx> Is bitcoin in any distro repos at the moment out of curiosity?
1292 2010-12-07 07:09:03 <Orbixx> It's not in Fedora, that's for sure.
1293 2010-12-07 07:09:22 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: I'm maintaining an ebuild for gentoo, and someone else is too
1294 2010-12-07 07:09:33 <ArtForz> imo doing int64->double->json and json->double->int64 is kinda ugly
1295 2010-12-07 07:09:41 <MT`AwAy> I'm thinking of adding to sunrise soon too (gentoo ebuild adoption process)
1296 2010-12-07 07:09:57 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I think too, that's why json should use int :)
1297 2010-12-07 07:10:55 <ArtForz> I kinda dont like the idea of a breaking change to the json interface
1298 2010-12-07 07:11:17 <MT`AwAy> better do it now than later (either that, or add method aliases with _int suffix or something)
1299 2010-12-07 07:12:06 <MT`AwAy> or provide bitcoin.conf setting
1300 2010-12-07 07:13:12 <ArtForz> conf setting is imo a bad idea
1301 2010-12-07 07:13:57 <MT`AwAy> if we decide "starting version X, it'll be ints", people will be able to check version with getinfo too (and either reject older bitcoin, or convert themselves)
1302 2010-12-07 07:15:27 <ArtForz> just checking
1303 2010-12-07 07:15:57 <ArtForz> double for json might not actually be a problem
1304 2010-12-07 07:16:40 <MT`AwAy> it probably depends on the client too
1305 2010-12-07 07:17:04 <ArtForz> php floats at least are doubles
1306 2010-12-07 07:17:35 <Orbixx> Who maintains the bitcoin.org site?
1307 2010-12-07 07:17:53 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: "Satoshi" I guess
1308 2010-12-07 07:18:09 <ArtForz> I thought it was sirius_m
1309 2010-12-07 07:20:57 <ArtForz> in a 64 bit float we have 52 bits of mantissa, 21M * 1e8 is < 51 bits, should be fine for interchange
1310 2010-12-07 07:23:28 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I think the main problem is conversion to decimal is not straightforward, and sometimes render out stuff like 14.6999999999
1311 2010-12-07 07:23:42 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: it's sirius_m
1312 2010-12-07 07:24:17 <ArtForz> yes, but with that a-bit-over-1-bit of spare mantissa, rounding error should be always < 0.5 microcents
1313 2010-12-07 07:24:25 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: ok, didn't know
1314 2010-12-07 07:24:45 <genjix> Kiba: http://pastecoin.com
1315 2010-12-07 07:24:54 <genjix> new server
1316 2010-12-07 07:25:48 * jgarzik wonders if testnet difficulty decreased recently, or a lot of new *PU power was added
1317 2010-12-07 07:25:50 <ArtForz> of course if you start actually doing math in floating point, all bets are off
1318 2010-12-07 07:26:37 <MT`AwAy> who said php's "float" was a double?
1319 2010-12-07 07:26:39 <MT`AwAy> http://pastebin.com/fQCCDn95
1320 2010-12-07 07:26:44 <ArtForz> phps docs?
1321 2010-12-07 07:26:48 <ArtForz> jgarzik: probably xelister testing his miner
1322 2010-12-07 07:27:01 <Kiba> genjix: does it generate preview?
1323 2010-12-07 07:27:07 <jgarzik> blocks are -flying- by, on testnet
1324 2010-12-07 07:27:10 <genjix> Kiba: what do you mean?
1325 2010-12-07 07:27:16 <genjix> like a small thumbnail?
1326 2010-12-07 07:27:27 <ArtForz> jgarzik: it's a 5970, should get about 44s/block
1327 2010-12-07 07:28:03 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: http://pastebin.com/rQvMnGeX
1328 2010-12-07 07:28:26 <MT`AwAy> oh
1329 2010-12-07 07:28:27 <MT`AwAy> nevermind
1330 2010-12-07 07:28:28 <MT`AwAy> :D
1331 2010-12-07 07:28:32 <MT`AwAy> forgot %.8lf
1332 2010-12-07 07:29:15 <ArtForz> hehe
1333 2010-12-07 07:29:18 <MT`AwAy> printf rounds at given decimal to hide rounding errors
1334 2010-12-07 07:29:22 <ArtForz> yep
1335 2010-12-07 07:29:27 <MT`AwAy> (by default 6)
1336 2010-12-07 07:29:48 <ArtForz> and as our "representation error" should be < 0.5 microcents, rounding to 8 deciomnal places shoudl do the right thing
1337 2010-12-07 07:30:39 <ArtForz> now, multiplying/dividing by 1e8 for int64 conversion ... I'm not 100% certain about that part
1338 2010-12-07 07:31:13 <MT`AwAy> well, as I and bitcoin both use integers internally, I would have preffered communicating with integers
1339 2010-12-07 07:31:42 <ArtForz> yep
1340 2010-12-07 07:31:56 <genjix> Kiba: do you mean a thumbnail?
1341 2010-12-07 07:32:00 <ArtForz> but I could live with fixed-point integers
1342 2010-12-07 07:32:21 <genjix> Kiba: and what's a good size for a preview?
1343 2010-12-07 07:32:49 <Kiba> I don't know.
1344 2010-12-07 07:32:59 <Kiba> I check bitcoinservice.co.uk
1345 2010-12-07 07:33:21 * Kiba often feel like the only customer using downloading service
1346 2010-12-07 07:33:44 Hogofwar has joined
1347 2010-12-07 07:34:07 <MT`AwAy> genjix: http://pastecoin.com/ <- you're generating a new bitcoin address at each page load, don't you fear wallet.dat will grow to astronomical size?
1348 2010-12-07 07:34:32 <genjix> i was told it's desireable to generate a new address each time.
1349 2010-12-07 07:34:39 <genjix> let me ask on forums
1350 2010-12-07 07:34:47 <MT`AwAy> you could generate one for each session, for example
1351 2010-12-07 07:35:04 <MT`AwAy> but one each single time might lead to a really big wallet.dat (plus, generating a bitcoin addr takes some cpu)
1352 2010-12-07 07:35:11 <Kiba> man
1353 2010-12-07 07:35:30 <genjix> ok, i have to look into that
1354 2010-12-07 07:35:38 <Kiba> I Mine is 120 x 200
1355 2010-12-07 07:35:48 <Kiba> though it is said that my picture are rather large
1356 2010-12-07 07:36:13 <Kiba> 1500 * 2500
1357 2010-12-07 07:36:53 <genjix> ok so I'll make a preview
1358 2010-12-07 07:37:05 tylergillies is now known as tyger
1359 2010-12-07 07:37:25 * Kiba is really ruthless demanding what he wants :D
1360 2010-12-07 07:38:09 <Kiba> ubitious lost me, now bencoder will be losing me too
1361 2010-12-07 07:38:12 <Kiba> I have no loyalty
1362 2010-12-07 07:38:12 tyger is now known as tailyr
1363 2010-12-07 07:38:52 tailyr is now known as tailr
1364 2010-12-07 07:39:28 <MT`AwAy> that's called the law of market
1365 2010-12-07 07:39:36 <genjix> yep it's good for everyone
1366 2010-12-07 07:40:02 <xelister_> Kiba: 10000 BTC for pics of your sis now naked
1367 2010-12-07 07:40:09 <xelister_> re: law of the market and no loyalty :P
1368 2010-12-07 07:40:39 <genjix> xelister_: are you serious? 10k BTC??
1369 2010-12-07 07:40:42 <MT`AwAy> btw if other people have projects they'd like to see sponsored, we can
1370 2010-12-07 07:40:47 Hogofwar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1371 2010-12-07 07:40:53 <genjix> 1 will get naked pics of my sis if you want
1372 2010-12-07 07:40:56 <xelister_> lol
1373 2010-12-07 07:41:00 <xelister_> you guys have no soul
1374 2010-12-07 07:41:03 <MT`AwAy> genjix: how old is she?
1375 2010-12-07 07:41:07 * xelister_ headdesks
1376 2010-12-07 07:41:13 <genjix> 16
1377 2010-12-07 07:41:24 <genjix> for 10k BTC
1378 2010-12-07 07:41:39 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1379 2010-12-07 07:41:49 <xelister_> for 10k you would betray own sister? O_o
1380 2010-12-07 07:42:00 <MT`AwAy> for 10k you would become a criminal?
1381 2010-12-07 07:42:11 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: dont start with the bullshit "crimial"
1382 2010-12-07 07:42:24 <genjix> I'd probably just ask her.
1383 2010-12-07 07:42:34 <xelister_> what happens to times when 'crimialns' where murderers and rapists
1384 2010-12-07 07:42:39 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: I believe providing naked pictures of minors for money isn't exactly legal
1385 2010-12-07 07:42:47 <xelister_> not like people downloading shit from internet
1386 2010-12-07 07:43:08 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: there's a difference between "downloading" and "providing"
1387 2010-12-07 07:43:09 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: for one, it she is NOT minor in: Spain, Poland, ..., Vatican
1388 2010-12-07 07:43:23 <genjix> and the UK
1389 2010-12-07 07:43:31 <genjix> im in the UK
1390 2010-12-07 07:43:42 <MT`AwAy> oh
1391 2010-12-07 07:43:43 <xelister_> btw, YES, Vatican. How funny is that? Religious doublefaced pedos
1392 2010-12-07 07:43:46 <MT`AwAy> that changes everything, I guess
1393 2010-12-07 07:43:53 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: ha, you are full of shit
1394 2010-12-07 07:44:02 * xelister_ beats the fuck out of MT`AwAy with a cluebat
1395 2010-12-07 07:44:05 <genjix> xelister_: actually pedo is liking girls younger than 11
1396 2010-12-07 07:44:34 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia < normal behaviour
1397 2010-12-07 07:44:47 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia < debate over whether it's normal or not.
1398 2010-12-07 07:44:57 <xelister_> genjix: well pedo SHOULD BE liking girls that are before adulthood (adjusted at indivitual faster or lower growing up),  and we SHOULD be killing guys that FORCE other to sex (including using superiority based on /big/ age difference)
1399 2010-12-07 07:45:21 <xelister_> while instead, fucktards from USA, or MT`AwAy here (who otherwise I think is a nice guy ;)  are all like
1400 2010-12-07 07:45:48 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: here in Japan, 25 years old look like 15 years old, so it's fine
1401 2010-12-07 07:45:59 <xelister_> OH MY GOD, she is 1 day before 18, and her boyfriend is 2 days before 18th and they are making out and taking pictures - LETS ARREST THEM and put them on SEX PREDATORS/CRIMINALS list.  True story. (usa)
1402 2010-12-07 07:46:25 <genjix> i think the law should reflect science. Harsh sentencing for pedophilia (0-11 years old). Minor punishment for 11-14 years. Protection but legal for 14-18 (law heavily balanced in girls favour)
1403 2010-12-07 07:46:41 <ArtForz> in some parts of europe: arrest them for the taking pictures part, as age of consent is 14 ...
1404 2010-12-07 07:46:44 <xelister_> another example of bullshit is moral relativism based on location. Imho. OH NOEZ 17yo??? YOU CRIMINAL.  No wait, you live in country X. Oh, then it is all fine :)  <--- bullcrap
1405 2010-12-07 07:46:56 <MT`AwAy> hasn't UK its own set of strange such laws?
1406 2010-12-07 07:47:04 <genjix> xelister_: legal age in argentine is 14, france is 13
1407 2010-12-07 07:47:12 <xelister_> either you are or you are not taking adventage on someone, and being in country X or Y should not change that
1408 2010-12-07 07:47:14 <genjix> serbia 13
1409 2010-12-07 07:47:16 <MT`AwAy> genjix: lol ?
1410 2010-12-07 07:47:26 <xelister_> afair romania 13 too
1411 2010-12-07 07:47:38 <genjix> some parts of USA is 18
1412 2010-12-07 07:47:39 <xelister_> Arabic countries -> 6, 7. (btw, THIS is totally sick)
1413 2010-12-07 07:47:49 <xelister_> *some
1414 2010-12-07 07:48:03 <genjix> just one
1415 2010-12-07 07:48:04 <genjix> yemen
1416 2010-12-07 07:48:09 <xelister_> dunno
1417 2010-12-07 07:48:15 <genjix> madagascar is 21
1418 2010-12-07 07:48:16 <MT`AwAy> wikipedia has an article on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
1419 2010-12-07 07:48:16 <genjix> :p
1420 2010-12-07 07:48:26 dust__ has joined
1421 2010-12-07 07:48:38 <MT`AwAy> which allows me to confirm to genjix that France is 15 years old (for girls, later for boys)
1422 2010-12-07 07:48:49 <genjix> anyway people are a lot different than in the past
1423 2010-12-07 07:48:52 <xelister_> </self righteous> ;)
1424 2010-12-07 07:48:55 <MT`AwAy> in arabic countries there is no minimal
1425 2010-12-07 07:49:01 <MT`AwAy> (in some)
1426 2010-12-07 07:49:13 <xelister_> in any case,
1427 2010-12-07 07:49:14 <genjix> age of consent at 18 and having the same sentencing for an 8 year old and 13 year old is unrealistic
1428 2010-12-07 07:49:26 <MT`AwAy> genjix: true, but you can't change laws
1429 2010-12-07 07:49:40 <MT`AwAy> well, in theory you could, if there were any democracy out there
1430 2010-12-07 07:49:52 <ArtForz> afair in .de it's 15 generally, 13 if other party is <21
1431 2010-12-07 07:50:18 <genjix> well i live in lots of countries
1432 2010-12-07 07:50:33 <genjix> and some of my older girlfriends were really immature
1433 2010-12-07 07:50:44 <genjix> but i've met really intelligent 15 year old girls
1434 2010-12-07 07:50:54 <xelister_> This is NOT in interest of young people to make criminals out of everyone that hooks up with a bit younger girl (with both consent etc!!!) such 'help' actually can *hurt* the 'victim(s)'. While serious, much worse things, like: assault, abuse, rape - are without such moral panic mode, and often are not punished enough.
1435 2010-12-07 07:50:56 <genjix> so i think the age argument is bullshit.
1436 2010-12-07 07:50:58 <xelister_> ^-- only I see that, or what
1437 2010-12-07 07:51:01 <jgarzik> this is new...
1438 2010-12-07 07:51:02 <jgarzik> received block 000000000a88efb57f48
1439 2010-12-07 07:51:02 <jgarzik>   nActualTimespan = 1740575  before bounds
1440 2010-12-07 07:51:02 <jgarzik> GetNextWorkRequired RETARGET
1441 2010-12-07 07:51:02 <jgarzik> nTargetTimespan = 1209600    nActualTimespan = 1740575
1442 2010-12-07 07:51:05 <MT`AwAy> genjix: here the older girlfriend I ever had was also the most immature x.x
1443 2010-12-07 07:51:09 <MT`AwAy> oldest*
1444 2010-12-07 07:51:20 <genjix> heh says a lot.
1445 2010-12-07 07:51:39 <MT`AwAy> anyway the law is mostly to avoid girls too young to become pregnent and suffer complications
1446 2010-12-07 07:51:43 <MT`AwAy> (at least it should)
1447 2010-12-07 07:52:28 <genjix> teach safe sex and make girls sensible
1448 2010-12-07 07:52:34 <genjix> educate people
1449 2010-12-07 07:52:57 <MT`AwAy> nah nah don't tell them anything about sex in school, you might give them ideas
1450 2010-12-07 07:53:08 <MT`AwAy> what more, you may actually help them
1451 2010-12-07 07:53:11 <jgarzik> ah
1452 2010-12-07 07:53:12 <genjix> if you're in education and have a life ahead of you, and you're in a safe relationship
1453 2010-12-07 07:53:14 <xelister_> punishment = min(0,   min(0,  16 - actually_development_age)^2 * (age_diff^4) * consent ? 0.1 : 100  )
1454 2010-12-07 07:53:16 <xelister_> woot?
1455 2010-12-07 07:53:18 <jgarzik> difficulty on testnet went down
1456 2010-12-07 07:53:21 <jgarzik> as I was watching
1457 2010-12-07 07:53:28 <genjix> then the girls will protect themselves and be cautious
1458 2010-12-07 07:53:32 <xelister_> jgarzik: I turned off 5970 on testnet ;)
1459 2010-12-07 07:53:39 <genjix> just frightening people off sex forces it underground
1460 2010-12-07 07:53:45 <ArtForz> MT: ahh, the american way of increasing teenage pregnancies :P
1461 2010-12-07 07:53:46 <genjix> puts the girls in dangerous positions
1462 2010-12-07 07:54:02 <xelister_> genjix: yes. educate, not force rules, even when BOTH sides affected do not want such 'protection' laws
1463 2010-12-07 07:54:05 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: america has world record of teenage pregnancies, wasn't it?
1464 2010-12-07 07:54:08 <genjix> i hate this fucking attitude of calling girls sluts
1465 2010-12-07 07:54:18 <genjix> but calling a man a 'player'
1466 2010-12-07 07:54:27 <xelister_> genjix: lol what u say dog?
1467 2010-12-07 07:54:28 <genjix> harmful attitude.
1468 2010-12-07 07:54:41 <xelister_> >_>
1469 2010-12-07 07:55:09 <xelister_> is my formula for actually /moral/ amount on punishment woot or not
1470 2010-12-07 07:55:29 <jgarzik> man, RHorning does a lot of talking about what others should do
1471 2010-12-07 07:55:32 <jgarzik> and not so much contributing
1472 2010-12-07 07:55:37 <genjix> anyway I think it's very wrong to label normal healthy interest in younger girls as pedophilia.
1473 2010-12-07 07:55:46 * jgarzik wants a /ignore for the forum :)
1474 2010-12-07 07:55:48 <MT`AwAy> another problem exists: social context. For boys it's like a trophy to brag about "I made out with that girl and that one too, and that one"
1475 2010-12-07 07:56:05 <genjix> exactly.
1476 2010-12-07 07:56:14 <MT`AwAy> genjix: then send me the picture. for free. :D
1477 2010-12-07 07:56:21 <Kiba> jgarzik: ignore who?
1478 2010-12-07 07:56:30 <jgarzik> Kiba: RHorning
1479 2010-12-07 07:56:49 <Kiba> about the DomainChain?
1480 2010-12-07 07:56:50 <genjix> calling interest in a 14 year old pedophilia, is trivialising *REAL* paedophilia against innocent children.
1481 2010-12-07 07:57:03 <xelister_> yes
1482 2010-12-07 07:57:25 <xelister_> genjix: what I found stupides, is that they throw in the same bag:  1) 17+18 yo couple in love   2) guy that wanks off to 17yo jailbait  3) guy that looked at 10yo taking a bath   4) guy that actually RAPED a 10yo
1483 2010-12-07 07:57:27 <genjix> and you destroy someone's life.
1484 2010-12-07 07:57:43 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
1485 2010-12-07 07:57:47 <jgarzik> Kiba: on multiple topics.  RHorning wants to write specifications, but that is dangerous when you're not actually going to be writing any of the real code.
1486 2010-12-07 07:57:58 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: you forgot "guy who downloaded the drawing of a girl looking 10 years old"
1487 2010-12-07 07:58:06 <genjix> well it's just that it's considered NORMAL to like 14-16 year olds
1488 2010-12-07 07:58:13 <genjix> why is it illegal?
1489 2010-12-07 07:58:23 <xelister_> such generalising makes normal people 'villens', while making it less obvious to hount down the actuall pedo-rapists
1490 2010-12-07 07:58:24 <genjix> who makes these laws?
1491 2010-12-07 07:58:28 <xelister_> genjix: thought crime
1492 2010-12-07 07:58:28 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1493 2010-12-07 07:58:38 <MT`AwAy> genjix: governements elected by the people
1494 2010-12-07 07:58:40 <MT`AwAy> (in theory)
1495 2010-12-07 07:58:48 <ArtForz> yup, illegal at least in a bunch of european countries
1496 2010-12-07 07:58:53 <xelister_> genjix: obviously law makers want to make sure that anyone with such urges would have to actually go out to the streets and do horrible ACTUALL THINGS
1497 2010-12-07 07:59:14 <xelister_> btw, rape rate went up A LOT in japan when porn ("normal" porn) was illegal
1498 2010-12-07 07:59:23 <xelister_> same with alcoholism and mafia during prohibition
1499 2010-12-07 07:59:27 <genjix> lol isnt japan the rape capital?
1500 2010-12-07 07:59:36 <xelister_> same with drug underground and mafia nowdays
1501 2010-12-07 08:00:03 <xelister_> why idiots still do same stupid laws that end up doing REVERSE of what is good and needed
1502 2010-12-07 08:00:11 <xelister_> I make sense above or not ;) ?
1503 2010-12-07 08:00:14 <MT`AwAy> genjix: japan has much lower rape levels than many other countries
1504 2010-12-07 08:00:28 ColonelPanic1 has joined
1505 2010-12-07 08:00:33 <genjix> MT`AwAy: sorry i typo'ed, I meant to say 'porn capital'
1506 2010-12-07 08:00:40 <xelister_> genjix: nowdays I would guess this problem is largery gone (after re-lagalizing porn, who would thought.)
1507 2010-12-07 08:01:08 * xelister_ thinks certain things belong, at best, in sushi, not in porn ;)
1508 2010-12-07 08:01:10 <MT`AwAy> :D
1509 2010-12-07 08:01:11 <MT`AwAy> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
1510 2010-12-07 08:01:28 <genjix> MT`AwAy: you live in japan right?
1511 2010-12-07 08:01:31 <MT`AwAy> genjix: in Japan most porn is edited from US to avoir mozaics
1512 2010-12-07 08:01:34 <MT`AwAy> genjix: yup, I do
1513 2010-12-07 08:01:45 <xelister_> ok I will give 5 BTC to whoever comments in sensible way to what I written in last 20 lines :>
1514 2010-12-07 08:01:55 <genjix> I heard it's really boring outside Tokyo
1515 2010-12-07 08:02:05 <MT`AwAy> in Japan you can buy breast-shaped stress balls (with a nipple) in the "children toys" section of big shops
1516 2010-12-07 08:02:18 <genjix> lmao
1517 2010-12-07 08:02:23 <MT`AwAy> many colors available
1518 2010-12-07 08:02:27 <genjix> thats another thing
1519 2010-12-07 08:02:35 <MT`AwAy> was thinking to sell those for bitcoins, but then there was the shipping restrictions to US
1520 2010-12-07 08:02:36 <genjix> i dont mean to sound like a pervert
1521 2010-12-07 08:02:41 <xelister_> Yemen: 	0.0038597 per 1,000 people  	  <---- this is bullshit, probably just all goes unreported.  And what with all the young girls force into 'marriage', like 10 yo? THIS is sick
1522 2010-12-07 08:02:45 <xelister_> ..and noone cares
1523 2010-12-07 08:02:48 <xelister_> about them
1524 2010-12-07 08:02:53 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: yes
1525 2010-12-07 08:03:03 <genjix> but when I was in egypt, arab guys would propose marriage to my russian girlfriend
1526 2010-12-07 08:03:10 <xelister_> >_>
1527 2010-12-07 08:03:15 <genjix> and she told me that on the train guys would sometimes touch her hair
1528 2010-12-07 08:03:35 <genjix> well breasts are NOT sexual organs
1529 2010-12-07 08:03:45 <genjix> we only find them sexy cos they're hidden
1530 2010-12-07 08:03:49 <xelister_> # 9   	United States:   <-- good job, usafags. too bussy pursuing 17yo 'criminal lovers' to take care of actuall crimes?
1531 2010-12-07 08:03:58 <genjix> in Namibia it's natural for women to leave them out
1532 2010-12-07 08:04:07 <genjix> but thighs are considered sexual and must be hidden.
1533 2010-12-07 08:04:23 <xelister_> genjix: actually, breasts *are* sexual orgen, because they develop with maturing
1534 2010-12-07 08:04:26 <xelister_> imo
1535 2010-12-07 08:04:26 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: actually I'm surprised to see canada/australia higher than US
1536 2010-12-07 08:04:36 <xelister_> and wtf iceland?
1537 2010-12-07 08:04:37 <genjix> xelister_: no they are not. scientifically they're not sex organs.
1538 2010-12-07 08:04:47 <xelister_> isn't it too cold to rape anyone who is not a sealion
1539 2010-12-07 08:04:50 <Orbixx> xelister_: If I recall correctly, Poland and the Netherlands both follow the practice of not outlawing drugs and such and find that it reduces use.
1540 2010-12-07 08:04:52 ESRogs has joined
1541 2010-12-07 08:04:56 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: no they are not, because they are not listed on wikipedia page for "Sexual organs"
1542 2010-12-07 08:05:03 <xelister_> Orbixx: no, drugs are illegal here.
1543 2010-12-07 08:05:23 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: cold, so by raping they generate heat? :D
1544 2010-12-07 08:05:25 <genjix> so society has fucked up our minds
1545 2010-12-07 08:05:28 <xelister_> recently the FUCKTARDS (gov) in pl make it illegal to have 'any substance that can be used to [get high]'
1546 2010-12-07 08:05:29 <Orbixx> xelister_: I may be thinking of just weed for Netherlands.
1547 2010-12-07 08:05:38 <genjix> just like arab men jizz over the sight of hair/legs on a girl in public
1548 2010-12-07 08:05:47 <genjix> people get all excited over banal titties
1549 2010-12-07 08:05:50 <zylche> xelister_: so, they banned caffeine?
1550 2010-12-07 08:05:51 <xelister_> so now in PL, oil, glue, etc - theoretically are illegal
1551 2010-12-07 08:05:51 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: no more alcool? great!
1552 2010-12-07 08:05:52 <Orbixx> xelister_: As for Poland, I must be getting it mixed up with a different country then.
1553 2010-12-07 08:05:57 <zylche> or is it just a specific high?
1554 2010-12-07 08:05:57 <Kiba> pussies
1555 2010-12-07 08:06:00 <Kiba> and boobs
1556 2010-12-07 08:06:04 <Kiba> I think I choose pussies
1557 2010-12-07 08:06:05 <xelister_> so now in PL, oil, glue, etc - theoretically are illegal. and ofcourse also alcohol and coffee
1558 2010-12-07 08:06:26 <xelister_> Orbixx: perhaps liek Hungary? afair hookers are legal there. Perhaps .cz too
1559 2010-12-07 08:06:31 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: turning on yourself really fast then stopping is illegal too?
1560 2010-12-07 08:06:32 <MT`AwAy> xD
1561 2010-12-07 08:06:43 <Orbixx> xelister_: Stairs, elevators, escalators, propulsion devices, feet, legs, jetpacks...
1562 2010-12-07 08:06:45 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: banging against the wall
1563 2010-12-07 08:06:47 <Kiba> these politicans, unlike us, don't think things through
1564 2010-12-07 08:06:51 <xelister_> holding breath too long
1565 2010-12-07 08:06:57 <xelister_> breathing very fastly
1566 2010-12-07 08:07:03 <Orbixx> fast* :)
1567 2010-12-07 08:07:06 <MT`AwAy> :D
1568 2010-12-07 08:07:15 <genjix> squatting because of headrush
1569 2010-12-07 08:07:15 <xelister_> all can be used to get high and now, according to new law, is finable up to 1 000 000 PLN (300 000 USD)
1570 2010-12-07 08:07:17 <Orbixx> breathing very fast / breathing fastly
1571 2010-12-07 08:07:27 <xelister_> poland governemnt is a bunch of motherfucking fucktards
1572 2010-12-07 08:07:32 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: good luck to them
1573 2010-12-07 08:07:36 <genjix> xelister_: lol i love poland
1574 2010-12-07 08:07:45 <xelister_> genjix: want to swithc places?
1575 2010-12-07 08:07:48 <genjix> xelister_: i remember this border town near szeczin
1576 2010-12-07 08:07:50 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: btw isn't having too much power a way to get high too?
1577 2010-12-07 08:07:51 <xelister_> genjix: but leave the sis at home lol
1578 2010-12-07 08:08:01 <genjix> and the mayor wanted to make the town more like rio de janeiro
1579 2010-12-07 08:08:01 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: possibly
1580 2010-12-07 08:08:06 <genjix> so he's building a big jesus statue
1581 2010-12-07 08:08:09 <ESRogs> so... what does everyone think about bitcoin...?
1582 2010-12-07 08:08:11 <xelister_> ah right
1583 2010-12-07 08:08:13 <genjix> except it's facing the Tesco
1584 2010-12-07 08:08:14 <xelister_> that is so funny
1585 2010-12-07 08:08:20 <Kiba> ESRogs: you're in the wrong channel to ask that
1586 2010-12-07 08:08:24 <genjix> jesus worshipping Tesco :D
1587 2010-12-07 08:08:28 <xelister_> haha tesco? this I didnt know
1588 2010-12-07 08:08:33 <genjix> let me find the link
1589 2010-12-07 08:08:38 <Kiba> EVERYBODY love it of course
1590 2010-12-07 08:08:41 <xelister_> ESRogs: bitcoins are awesome
1591 2010-12-07 08:08:46 <genjix> it's in Swibodzen i think
1592 2010-12-07 08:08:46 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: we bitcoin
1593 2010-12-07 08:08:50 <xelister_> ESRogs: very fast, can be anonymous, and you are in the controll
1594 2010-12-07 08:08:57 <xelister_> genjix: yea
1595 2010-12-07 08:09:04 <Kiba> ESRogs is from London, England
1596 2010-12-07 08:09:09 <Kiba> SATOSHI ALERT!
1597 2010-12-07 08:09:14 <Orbixx> ?
1598 2010-12-07 08:09:20 <Orbixx> Satoshi lives in London?
1599 2010-12-07 08:09:23 <ESRogs> does red username mean private message?
1600 2010-12-07 08:09:30 <Kiba> we have a theory that Satoshi is actually British
1601 2010-12-07 08:09:30 <ESRogs> oh, guess not
1602 2010-12-07 08:09:32 <genjix> xelister_: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/29/swiebodzin-jesus-to-top-r_n_775913.html
1603 2010-12-07 08:09:39 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: click it and you'll know?
1604 2010-12-07 08:09:40 <Orbixx> ESRogs: It means somebody mentioned your name.
1605 2010-12-07 08:09:44 <genjix> it's in front of Tesco, facing Tesco
1606 2010-12-07 08:09:44 <xelister_> ogm thats satoshi! いくぞ!
1607 2010-12-07 08:09:47 <MT`AwAy> oh, in the channel
1608 2010-12-07 08:09:47 <MT`AwAy> ok
1609 2010-12-07 08:09:55 <ESRogs> Orbixx: like this?
1610 2010-12-07 08:09:58 <Orbixx> Correct.
1611 2010-12-07 08:10:03 <ESRogs> awesome
1612 2010-12-07 08:10:11 <Kiba> every British hacker from now on are now suspected of being Satoshi
1613 2010-12-07 08:10:12 <Orbixx> ESRogs: It's used to get your attention and whatnot.
1614 2010-12-07 08:10:18 * Orbixx is British
1615 2010-12-07 08:10:18 <ESRogs> so... bitcoin has increased in value apparently
1616 2010-12-07 08:10:19 <genjix> im british
1617 2010-12-07 08:10:30 <Kiba> ok, maybe not you.
1618 2010-12-07 08:10:33 <ESRogs> is this an unsustainable bubble just based on speculation?
1619 2010-12-07 08:10:34 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: you can probably use "tab" key to complete people's name after typing a few letters
1620 2010-12-07 08:10:41 <genjix> actually im english, scottish, belgian, iranian, german... :p
1621 2010-12-07 08:10:41 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: who knows
1622 2010-12-07 08:10:42 <xelister_> lol -> http://www.polishforums.com/news-politics-4/giant-jesus-rising-swiebodzin-tallest-world-47311/6/
1623 2010-12-07 08:10:43 <Orbixx> ESRogs: Elaborate.
1624 2010-12-07 08:10:50 <ESRogs> or are enough people accepting bitcoin that there's demand for it other than speculation
1625 2010-12-07 08:10:51 <ESRogs> ?
1626 2010-12-07 08:10:59 <Kiba> Spectulation is a good thing, ESRogs
1627 2010-12-07 08:11:06 <Orbixx> ESRogs: Acceptance could be a lot better, but adoption has to start somewhere.
1628 2010-12-07 08:11:16 <xelister_> yeah, whaet is up with xchange rate going to shit (0.18) ?
1629 2010-12-07 08:11:23 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: http://www.bitcoin.org/trade <- more and more people are accepting bitcoins
1630 2010-12-07 08:11:24 <Kiba> spectulation help stabalize the economy
1631 2010-12-07 08:11:24 <Orbixx> I've only known about Bitcoin for a few hours, but theoretically, it's a very elegant currency concept.
1632 2010-12-07 08:11:31 <Kiba> xelister_: it's slowly going to shit....
1633 2010-12-07 08:11:34 <Kiba> but maybe
1634 2010-12-07 08:11:36 <Kiba> it could change
1635 2010-12-07 08:11:45 <genjix> xelister_: "I only wish they had found a nicer location for it...it's across the road from the local branch of Tesco."
1636 2010-12-07 08:11:59 <ESRogs> so... bitcoin watch says there's almost $10^6 of bitcoin extant
1637 2010-12-07 08:12:03 <ESRogs> that seems like... a lot
1638 2010-12-07 08:12:11 <genjix> although Krakow == best city
1639 2010-12-07 08:12:11 <Kiba> ESRogs: the US have trillion of dollars
1640 2010-12-07 08:12:16 <ESRogs> it seems doubtful that that much has been put into bitcoin
1641 2010-12-07 08:12:26 <ESRogs> so some people are sitting on a lot of profit?
1642 2010-12-07 08:12:28 <xelister_> genjix: Im in it ;)
1643 2010-12-07 08:12:38 <Kiba> ESRogs: not neccesary, it's a high risk project.
1644 2010-12-07 08:12:41 <genjix> i was there a few months ago :O
1645 2010-12-07 08:12:52 <ESRogs> Kiba: not necessarily what?
1646 2010-12-07 08:12:52 <Kiba> we could find a flaw tommorow that cannot be fixed. BAM. We're dead.
1647 2010-12-07 08:12:55 <genjix> i been to poland 8 times before
1648 2010-12-07 08:12:59 <xelister_> genjix: next time you come take sis lol ;) a normal picture now could be good
1649 2010-12-07 08:13:00 <genjix> I always have loads of fun
1650 2010-12-07 08:13:07 <Orbixx> ESRogs: It all depends on adoption.
1651 2010-12-07 08:13:08 <genjix> Polish people = crazy
1652 2010-12-07 08:13:10 <Kiba> ESRogs: it's not a "sure" thing.
1653 2010-12-07 08:13:19 <xelister_> Kiba: actually I think this is rahter stable... what flaw it could be?
1654 2010-12-07 08:13:22 <Kiba> I am incentivized to spread adoption.
1655 2010-12-07 08:13:26 <ESRogs> ah, i meant paper profit...
1656 2010-12-07 08:13:39 <ESRogs> that is, less than 1M USD has been spent to buy bitcoin
1657 2010-12-07 08:13:40 <Orbixx> ESRogs: There's profit to be had if you play your cards right.
1658 2010-12-07 08:13:42 <Kiba> xelister_: I don't know, some flaw we can't recover from
1659 2010-12-07 08:13:47 <Kiba> ESRogs: wrong.
1660 2010-12-07 08:13:51 <Kiba> that's just the estimation of value
1661 2010-12-07 08:13:56 <Kiba> actually you're right
1662 2010-12-07 08:14:02 <ESRogs> that's what I thought :)
1663 2010-12-07 08:14:25 <Orbixx> The value of BTC is based on what people value it at and the value of the goods/services they charge.
1664 2010-12-07 08:14:28 <Orbixx> Though I suspect Economics 101 is not needed.
1665 2010-12-07 08:14:34 <xelister_> Kiba: yea I dont see it... all seems clear... unless someone would come up with a way to make hashes milion times faster with not high cost, and such genious would bother with bitcoin instead word domination (breaking crypto etc)
1666 2010-12-07 08:15:20 <xelister_> and it would not require like a power plant or wormhole etc ;)
1667 2010-12-07 08:15:22 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: if someone breaks sha256 ?
1668 2010-12-07 08:15:30 <xelister_> yea. perhaps then
1669 2010-12-07 08:15:40 <xelister_> btw, can we at some point move to other crypto? how would that go?
1670 2010-12-07 08:15:44 <ESRogs> there might be other flaws
1671 2010-12-07 08:15:49 <ESRogs> I'm not a security expert though
1672 2010-12-07 08:15:56 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: in theory we can, but we'll have to restart the block chain at zero
1673 2010-12-07 08:16:04 <Kiba> bitcoin economy NEED you!
1674 2010-12-07 08:16:06 <xelister_> like.. satoshi says, in around 360 days (after block say 500,000) we will have new formula for the hash: ........... for all blocks after 500,000
1675 2010-12-07 08:16:07 <MT`AwAy> and will most likely lose any previously spent bitcoin
1676 2010-12-07 08:16:17 <xelister_> and if this new rule is sane, everyone will upate clients, and it will work
1677 2010-12-07 08:16:27 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: if sha256 is broken, previous parts of the chain can then be tempered with
1678 2010-12-07 08:16:30 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: why not as I written above
1679 2010-12-07 08:16:40 <MT`AwAy> tampered*
1680 2010-12-07 08:16:53 <Kiba> so
1681 2010-12-07 08:16:54 <Kiba> as we move
1682 2010-12-07 08:17:08 <xelister_> also checkpoints (i.e. block like 10,000  50,000 etc) are hard coded into the code afaik. So much for tempered/restarting. imo. If not, then they could be hard coded
1683 2010-12-07 08:17:10 <Kiba> a new bitcoin economy start up with a better crypto and everyone rush to sell their bitcoin?
1684 2010-12-07 08:17:15 <Kiba> before it's too late?
1685 2010-12-07 08:17:22 dust__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1686 2010-12-07 08:17:34 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: this kind of thing would be hte worst possible
1687 2010-12-07 08:17:36 <xelister_> so new rules could be: blocks 0...400k are following (list of hardcoded transactions), and since 500k we use new rules. or something
1688 2010-12-07 08:17:48 <xelister_> Kiba: no no no. it would be a smooth change. in my idea
1689 2010-12-07 08:17:57 <MT`AwAy> I think in this case the best option is to hardcode a new first block that already contains everyone's address status at a known safe point of the old chain
1690 2010-12-07 08:18:02 <xelister_> why noone just comments my ideas or extend them. I write unclearly? ;)
1691 2010-12-07 08:18:38 <ESRogs> your idea that starts with "like.. satoshi says" is a hypothetical, right?
1692 2010-12-07 08:18:49 <ESRogs> xelister_: ?
1693 2010-12-07 08:18:57 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: yes, that would be in case of major security problem
1694 2010-12-07 08:19:10 <MT`AwAy> ie, if sha256 is broken (which is unlikely to happen)
1695 2010-12-07 08:19:16 <xelister_> ESRogs: yes
1696 2010-12-07 08:19:26 <xelister_> btw, another intersting thing
1697 2010-12-07 08:19:31 <xelister_> would be to switch to crypto
1698 2010-12-07 08:19:34 <xelister_> that can't be GPU'e
1699 2010-12-07 08:19:35 <ESRogs> oh, satoshi is the creator guy, isn't he
1700 2010-12-07 08:19:35 <xelister_> that can't be GPU'ed
1701 2010-12-07 08:19:44 <Orbixx> ESRogs: Correct.
1702 2010-12-07 08:19:46 <MT`AwAy> the other weak point is elliptic curve signatures, which is still rather young
1703 2010-12-07 08:19:55 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: any math gpu can't do?
1704 2010-12-07 08:20:20 <Orbixx> ESRogs: It's no safer, nor more dangerous than investing in stocks and shares, really.
1705 2010-12-07 08:20:24 <xelister_> I think nowdays and to-come GPUs are bad at operations with lost of branching, and less standard math operations
1706 2010-12-07 08:20:35 <ESRogs> Orbixx: that is re: what?
1707 2010-12-07 08:20:44 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: they are still probably way faster than cpus
1708 2010-12-07 08:20:50 <ESRogs> Orbixx: you still responding to my speculation comment?
1709 2010-12-07 08:20:55 <xelister_> MT`AwAy: dunno.. doubt that.. we can ask #opencl
1710 2010-12-07 08:21:01 <Orbixx> ESRogs: Bitcoin, its stability is no safer, nor more dangerous than stocks and shares.
1711 2010-12-07 08:21:02 <Orbixx> Yes.
1712 2010-12-07 08:21:32 <ESRogs> Orbixx: well, it kinda depends on which stocks :)  but in principle, yes I think I see your point
1713 2010-12-07 08:21:33 <MT`AwAy> xelister_: present that at as a game "write a crypto hash function that is slower in cuda than in cpu for now and any future version of cuda/opencl ever to be released"
1714 2010-12-07 08:21:39 <Orbixx> The predictability of the outcome is just as undeterminable.
1715 2010-12-07 08:21:43 <xelister_> ArtForz: you probably would know, at what type of operations GPU would suck compared to CPU.
1716 2010-12-07 08:21:49 <Orbixx> Without 'inside knowledge', if you will.
1717 2010-12-07 08:22:21 <xelister_> who knows perhaps soon in fact CPUs will move to like 128 cores and shit
1718 2010-12-07 08:22:29 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: bitcoin has no central authority to punish illegal activity such as market manipulation, which makes it risky for most "normal" people
1719 2010-12-07 08:22:31 <ESRogs> so, anybody know anything about the satoshi guy other than that he made bitcoin?  some light googling hasn't turned up too much interesting
1720 2010-12-07 08:22:38 <ESRogs> is he academic?  lone coder?
1721 2010-12-07 08:22:41 <xelister_> now one CPU core costs areound x50 more then 1 GPU core
1722 2010-12-07 08:22:44 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: satoshi is not his real name, he's not japanese
1723 2010-12-07 08:22:59 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: I can tell you some things he's not, but nobody really knows what he is
1724 2010-12-07 08:22:59 * xelister_ bets his a jew
1725 2010-12-07 08:23:02 * xelister_ j/k
1726 2010-12-07 08:23:07 <ESRogs> MT`AwAy: aha, now we're getting somewhere
1727 2010-12-07 08:23:08 <xelister_> he's
1728 2010-12-07 08:23:14 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: I've always thought that insitutions controlling finance should not be the ones to control the flow of money with regards to legality.
1729 2010-12-07 08:23:39 <Orbixx> Since they are for-profit.
1730 2010-12-07 08:23:44 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: at least they (try to) avoid some kinds of market manipulations, and laws punish such activities
1731 2010-12-07 08:23:52 <Orbixx> Their decisions are heavily biased.
1732 2010-12-07 08:24:10 <Orbixx> Leave it to law enforcement.
1733 2010-12-07 08:24:11 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: for bitcoins there's nobody to make such decisions, so anyone could just do anything
1734 2010-12-07 08:24:31 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Quite, but not without repurcussions if it became widely accepted.
1735 2010-12-07 08:24:32 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: what can law enforcement do against people playing around with an anonymous market?
1736 2010-12-07 08:24:45 <Orbixx> It may also teach people to be more careful with their money.
1737 2010-12-07 08:25:05 <MT`AwAy> "more careful" as in "don't buy bitcoins" ?
1738 2010-12-07 08:25:05 <MT`AwAy> :p
1739 2010-12-07 08:25:47 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Proper correspondance when making dealings will hold records of transactions and be able to provide notable 'proof' of the transaction taking place.
1740 2010-12-07 08:26:05 <Orbixx> Perhaps a third-party non-profit organisation that regulates business sellers.
1741 2010-12-07 08:26:11 <Orbixx> For record-keeping purposes.
1742 2010-12-07 08:26:17 <Orbixx> Lots of possibilities.
1743 2010-12-07 08:27:26 <Orbixx> Now.
1744 2010-12-07 08:27:30 <Orbixx> One of you buy some hosting from me.
1745 2010-12-07 08:27:33 <Orbixx> ;)
1746 2010-12-07 08:27:46 <MT`AwAy> XD
1747 2010-12-07 08:27:53 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: how much?
1748 2010-12-07 08:28:11 <Orbixx> http://www.exoware.net/
1749 2010-12-07 08:28:11 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: ^
1750 2010-12-07 08:28:28 <Orbixx> (can pick BTC in the checkout process)
1751 2010-12-07 08:29:35 <MT`AwAy> lol
1752 2010-12-07 08:29:36 <MT`AwAy> WHMCompleteSolution
1753 2010-12-07 08:30:03 <MT`AwAy> mh
1754 2010-12-07 08:30:06 * MT`AwAy too lazy to register
1755 2010-12-07 08:30:37 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: I prefer not to re-invent the wheel ;)
1756 2010-12-07 08:31:07 <Orbixx> Concentrate on maintaining servers instead of coding my billing system.
1757 2010-12-07 08:32:29 <MT`AwAy> :)
1758 2010-12-07 08:32:46 <MT`AwAy> I do both
1759 2010-12-07 08:33:41 * Kiba learns the value of path making in GIMP
1760 2010-12-07 08:33:42 <Kiba> weee
1761 2010-12-07 08:33:56 <MT`AwAy> xD
1762 2010-12-07 08:33:57 <Kiba> neater, cleaner, unugly unjaggy lines
1763 2010-12-07 08:34:20 <ESRogs> MT`AwAy: can you tell me any more things that satoshi is not?
1764 2010-12-07 08:34:29 <MT`AwAy> human?
1765 2010-12-07 08:34:29 <MT`AwAy> xd
1766 2010-12-07 08:34:33 <ESRogs> MT`AwAy: how do you know that he's not japanese?
1767 2010-12-07 08:35:02 <Kiba> he never spoke a single line of Japanese
1768 2010-12-07 08:35:07 <MT`AwAy> ESRogs: his way of programming, up hours, and many other hints such as not a single japanese translation/word/anything
1769 2010-12-07 08:35:08 <Kiba> there is not even a Japanese language
1770 2010-12-07 08:35:29 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin website has many languages including chinese, but no japanese
1771 2010-12-07 08:35:35 <Kiba> I think Satoshi is a old school hacker site
1772 2010-12-07 08:35:43 <Orbixx> Maybe it's an elaborate troll.
1773 2010-12-07 08:35:43 <Kiba> err
1774 2010-12-07 08:35:50 <Kiba> Satoshi is a old school hacker guy
1775 2010-12-07 08:35:58 <ESRogs> oh
1776 2010-12-07 08:36:04 <ESRogs> so you've talked to him?
1777 2010-12-07 08:36:05 <ESRogs> here?
1778 2010-12-07 08:36:08 <MT`AwAy> we are not even sure "Satoshi" is a single individual
1779 2010-12-07 08:36:08 <Kiba> no
1780 2010-12-07 08:36:32 <ESRogs> so where are these non-japanese words showing up?
1781 2010-12-07 08:36:37 <Kiba> if you have several individuals, you would need to edit for styles, ESRogs
1782 2010-12-07 08:36:38 <ESRogs> and how are you privy to his up hours?
1783 2010-12-07 08:36:42 <Kiba> err
1784 2010-12-07 08:36:44 <Kiba> MT`AwAy:
1785 2010-12-07 08:37:09 <Kiba> Satoshi doesn't hack during usual Japanese hours
1786 2010-12-07 08:37:17 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: could be one doing the code, and the others posting on forum or just watching
1787 2010-12-07 08:37:30 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: pair programmers
1788 2010-12-07 08:37:37 <MT`AwAy> many possibilities
1789 2010-12-07 08:37:50 <Kiba> some people say his code is crap
1790 2010-12-07 08:38:09 <Kiba> whoever he is...he is brilliant to think of the idea
1791 2010-12-07 08:38:10 <xelister_> could be better
1792 2010-12-07 08:38:12 <xelister_> but is ok
1793 2010-12-07 08:38:33 <Kiba> maybe, when this currency war is over
1794 2010-12-07 08:38:36 <MT`AwAy> I believe "main.cpp" should have been a few more files
1795 2010-12-07 08:38:40 <Kiba> Satoshi could finally reveal his true identity
1796 2010-12-07 08:39:22 <Kiba> "SATOSHI REVEALED WHO HE IS 5 YEARS AFTER US AND EU COLLAPSE!"
1797 2010-12-07 08:39:53 <Kiba> he agreed to an exclusive interview with the New York Time!
1798 2010-12-07 08:39:57 <MT`AwAy> either that or "Satoshi" will disappear (ie. got bored) and someone else then claims to be satoshi
1799 2010-12-07 08:40:16 <Kiba> but we can smell bullshit a million miles away, MT`AwAy
1800 2010-12-07 08:43:15 redengin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1801 2010-12-07 08:43:57 * Kiba use his laptop as additional mining
1802 2010-12-07 08:44:00 <Kiba> equipment
1803 2010-12-07 08:44:07 <ESRogs> hmm
1804 2010-12-07 08:44:09 <Kiba> plus, it's cold
1805 2010-12-07 08:44:12 <Kiba> need all the heat I can get!
1806 2010-12-07 08:44:23 <ESRogs> anyone effectively generating coins with bitcoin client
1807 2010-12-07 08:44:33 <ESRogs> i had a khash/s of <2000
1808 2010-12-07 08:44:58 <ESRogs> which according to some app I used said it take 200 days to generate a block or whatever
1809 2010-12-07 08:45:03 <ArtForz> "effective" and generation on CPU don't mix
1810 2010-12-07 08:45:25 <ESRogs> so... i should be using the gpu?
1811 2010-12-07 08:45:42 <ArtForz> if you want to mine, yes
1812 2010-12-07 08:45:59 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
1813 2010-12-07 08:46:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96144 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 623 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 23 hours, 36 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11713.61335737
1814 2010-12-07 08:46:28 LobsterMan has joined
1815 2010-12-07 08:46:41 <ArtForz> unless you only want to mine to strengthen the network, then everything and the kitchen sink sounds like a good approach
1816 2010-12-07 08:48:16 <Kiba> hmm.
1817 2010-12-07 08:49:56 lispy has left ("Leaving")
1818 2010-12-07 08:51:59 <ESRogs> is there some special gpu client?
1819 2010-12-07 08:52:13 <ESRogs> is it linked to somewhere in the forum discussion linked at the top of the page?
1820 2010-12-07 08:52:19 <ArtForz> yep
1821 2010-12-07 08:52:34 <ArtForz> two opencl miners, one by m0mchil and one by diablo-d3
1822 2010-12-07 08:53:00 <ESRogs> these things work with windows?
1823 2010-12-07 08:53:12 <ArtForz> no clue
1824 2010-12-07 08:53:30 <ESRogs> maybe i should just read the thread :P
1825 2010-12-07 08:54:20 <Kiba> it's very long
1826 2010-12-07 08:55:52 <xelister_> ESRogs: I have windows working one
1827 2010-12-07 08:56:10 <xelister_> will release tonight probably too
1828 2010-12-07 08:56:11 <xelister_> what gfx?
1829 2010-12-07 08:56:19 <xelister_> wits build of diablo's basically
1830 2010-12-07 08:59:17 <ESRogs> nvidia geforce 9400m
1831 2010-12-07 08:59:19 <ESRogs> apparently
1832 2010-12-07 08:59:26 <genjix> Kiba: just upload image preview :)
1833 2010-12-07 08:59:29 <ESRogs> it's a mac (running windows 7 64-bit)
1834 2010-12-07 08:59:30 <genjix> *uploading
1835 2010-12-07 08:59:40 <genjix> so get ready to test for me.
1836 2010-12-07 08:59:49 <Kiba> genjix: don't have anything good
1837 2010-12-07 09:01:06 <ESRogs> hey so... i wasn't quite clear on how the mining works... is everyone's client working on the same proof-of-work task?
1838 2010-12-07 09:01:15 <ESRogs> and whoever gets it done first gets the block?
1839 2010-12-07 09:01:30 <ESRogs> so... will the same fastest clients always get the blocks?
1840 2010-12-07 09:01:49 <ArtForz> no
1841 2010-12-07 09:01:53 <ESRogs> i assume the answer is no
1842 2010-12-07 09:01:55 <ESRogs> but why not?
1843 2010-12-07 09:02:03 <ESRogs> have i fundamentally misunderstood what is going on?
1844 2010-12-07 09:02:07 <ArtForz> nope
1845 2010-12-07 09:02:20 <ESRogs> or is there some randomization
1846 2010-12-07 09:02:24 <ArtForz> exactly
1847 2010-12-07 09:02:48 <ArtForz> a 256 bit random key in the first tx in the block (the 50-btc-to-miner)
1848 2010-12-07 09:02:56 <ESRogs> so you just have a (your computing power)/(network's computing power) chance of getting the block
1849 2010-12-07 09:03:00 <ArtForz> randomly generated and different for every miner
1850 2010-12-07 09:03:02 <ArtForz> yep
1851 2010-12-07 09:03:11 <ESRogs> sorry, what's "tx"?
1852 2010-12-07 09:03:21 <ArtForz> transaction
1853 2010-12-07 09:03:54 <ESRogs> okay, and how does that random key result in one random miner getting the block?
1854 2010-12-07 09:04:03 <Kiba> he solve a problem
1855 2010-12-07 09:04:14 <genjix> Kiba: try it now :D
1856 2010-12-07 09:04:20 <genjix> nice preview feature
1857 2010-12-07 09:04:24 <genjix> http://localhost/luk/download.php?file=48
1858 2010-12-07 09:04:26 <genjix> oops
1859 2010-12-07 09:04:27 <ESRogs> keba: well, everyone's trying to solve the problem
1860 2010-12-07 09:04:35 <Kiba> genjix: like, I say. I didn't have anything good.
1861 2010-12-07 09:04:44 <genjix> http://pastecoin.com/download.php?file=4
1862 2010-12-07 09:04:49 <ESRogs> *kiba: not keba:
1863 2010-12-07 09:04:53 <genjix> is that what you meant?
1864 2010-12-07 09:04:55 <ESRogs> maybe I should be more specific, what determines who gets the block?
1865 2010-12-07 09:05:01 <Kiba> I don't have anything to upload
1866 2010-12-07 09:05:11 <Kiba> I barely alter a few strand of line.
1867 2010-12-07 09:05:14 <genjix> ok but is this what you meant by preview?
1868 2010-12-07 09:05:15 <genjix> http://pastecoin.com/download.php?file=4
1869 2010-12-07 09:05:31 <Kiba> yeah
1870 2010-12-07 09:05:36 <genjix> nice :)
1871 2010-12-07 09:05:51 <genjix> let me know if theres any other ideas
1872 2010-12-07 09:06:23 <Kiba> if you want to lock me in...build an API
1873 2010-12-07 09:06:35 <genjix> what do you mean?
1874 2010-12-07 09:06:44 <ESRogs> ArtForz: what does that 256 bit key do?
1875 2010-12-07 09:06:46 <genjix> (sure, but explain)
1876 2010-12-07 09:07:00 <ESRogs> ArtForz: how is that related to who gets the block?
1877 2010-12-07 09:07:11 <Kiba> so I can build a brand site using your download service, automate stuff. Generate descriptions and stuff, using your service
1878 2010-12-07 09:07:26 <Kiba> in other words, make it a platform
1879 2010-12-07 09:07:42 <genjix> ok just tell me what you want and I'll do it.
1880 2010-12-07 09:07:44 <Kiba> then there will be genuine switching cost for me.
1881 2010-12-07 09:07:50 * Kiba is tired
1882 2010-12-07 09:07:50 <genjix> you want the upload form seperate
1883 2010-12-07 09:07:53 <genjix> to embed
1884 2010-12-07 09:08:05 <genjix> and you want the download thing to embed too?
1885 2010-12-07 09:08:25 <genjix> ok, i can do that
1886 2010-12-07 09:09:21 <Kiba> say, I POST to your server, get a list of download..then I can manipulate the data that you gave me.
1887 2010-12-07 09:10:02 <Kiba> in short, I am my own content aggregator
1888 2010-12-07 09:10:11 <Kiba> you don't have to lift a finger selecting artworks and stuff
1889 2010-12-07 09:10:12 <MT`AwAy> genjix: REST API :p
1890 2010-12-07 09:10:36 <genjix> cool thanks
1891 2010-12-07 09:10:57 Alex has left ()
1892 2010-12-07 09:11:27 <Kiba> there are stuff that I don't want to deal with, that I let you to deal with it
1893 2010-12-07 09:11:35 <Kiba> payment processing, generating transaction history
1894 2010-12-07 09:11:38 <Kiba> and so on
1895 2010-12-07 09:12:06 <Kiba> I don't need to buy an expensive VPS and download capacity
1896 2010-12-07 09:12:37 <genjix> you have the download link, so can't you just add those to your site?
1897 2010-12-07 09:12:57 <Kiba> genjix: I am not about manually adding links
1898 2010-12-07 09:13:03 <Kiba> that's tedious work
1899 2010-12-07 09:13:07 <genjix> i see
1900 2010-12-07 09:13:28 <MT`AwAy> genjix: make a rest api: kiba posts to a magic url his file + infos, you return the download link
1901 2010-12-07 09:13:30 <MT`AwAy> for example
1902 2010-12-07 09:13:41 <MT`AwAy> then let kiba manage his files, update files with newer versions, update prices, etc
1903 2010-12-07 09:14:22 <genjix> MT`AwAy: so for instance I make a new 100 character string which I give to Kiba
1904 2010-12-07 09:14:31 <Kiba> yeah, make it so that hacker/artist like me don't have to deal with repetitive shit
1905 2010-12-07 09:14:34 <genjix> then when he posts using that string
1906 2010-12-07 09:14:43 <MT`AwAy> genjix: an api key, yes, for example
1907 2010-12-07 09:14:44 <MT`AwAy> :p
1908 2010-12-07 09:14:46 <genjix> he can request download list made with that string
1909 2010-12-07 09:15:22 <MT`AwAy> genjix: I think kiba wants to add many files automatically without having to do each manually
1910 2010-12-07 09:15:36 <genjix> thats easy. It's just a post form.
1911 2010-12-07 09:15:57 <MT`AwAy> yes, make it easy to automate
1912 2010-12-07 09:16:16 <MT`AwAy> duplicate it, and instead of returning a thank you page, return only the file id
1913 2010-12-07 09:17:28 <genjix> MT`AwAy: firstly i want to fix this getnewallet problem
1914 2010-12-07 09:17:58 <MT`AwAy> :p
1915 2010-12-07 09:18:10 <genjix> i should store the key in the session variable, right?
1916 2010-12-07 09:19:19 <genjix> cool
1917 2010-12-07 09:20:14 <Kiba>  man
1918 2010-12-07 09:20:17 <Kiba> it's 4 already
1919 2010-12-07 09:20:50 <Kiba> ;bc,calc 120000
1920 2010-12-07 09:21:01 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 120000
1921 2010-12-07 09:21:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes, and 49 seconds
1922 2010-12-07 09:41:13 redengin has joined
1923 2010-12-07 09:48:28 <Orbixx> Question.
1924 2010-12-07 09:48:39 <Orbixx> Consider that the BTC limit of 21M has been reached.
1925 2010-12-07 09:48:44 <Orbixx> And somebody is extremely wealthy.
1926 2010-12-07 09:48:53 <davux> why does the wiki mention 0.3.18? is it already available?
1927 2010-12-07 09:48:54 <Orbixx> However their 'wallet' has been destroyed in a freak accident.
1928 2010-12-07 09:49:08 <Orbixx> Does the total amount of BTC currency suddenly drop?
1929 2010-12-07 09:49:21 <ArtForz> total amount "available" yes,
1930 2010-12-07 09:50:16 <davux> plus all the people who'll lose or have already lost their wallet\s contents
1931 2010-12-07 09:50:29 <ArtForz> yep
1932 2010-12-07 09:50:33 <davux> s/\/'/
1933 2010-12-07 09:50:33 <doublec> I bet there were a bunch in the early days
1934 2010-12-07 09:50:43 <doublec> where people generated just to see what it was all about when difficulty was low
1935 2010-12-07 09:50:54 <doublec> decided they couldn't do anything with the coins, gave up, and deleted their wallet
1936 2010-12-07 09:51:37 <davux> so there's no reprint mechanism like in real money?
1937 2010-12-07 09:51:55 <ArtForz> nope
1938 2010-12-07 09:52:07 <ArtForz> total supply is fixed, if people lose coins, they're lost
1939 2010-12-07 09:52:42 <genjix> but bitcoins are divisible to 8 places too
1940 2010-12-07 09:52:45 <Orbixx> That's concerning.
1941 2010-12-07 09:52:48 <ArtForz> which in turn should make the remainder more valuable
1942 2010-12-07 09:52:57 <davux> what will happen when there's only 5 million BTC left?
1943 2010-12-07 09:52:58 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1944 2010-12-07 09:53:10 <ArtForz> then theres 5 million btc left
1945 2010-12-07 09:53:14 <genjix> 8 decimal places is a lot!
1946 2010-12-07 09:53:20 <ArtForz> they're divisible to 8 decimals
1947 2010-12-07 09:53:29 <Orbixx> mhmm
1948 2010-12-07 09:53:32 <davux> genjix: but it's a finite number
1949 2010-12-07 09:53:41 <Orbixx> So is 21 million.
1950 2010-12-07 09:53:41 <ArtForz> so those 5M are really 500000000000000 microcents
1951 2010-12-07 09:53:53 <genjix> thats more than the sand on all the earth!
1952 2010-12-07 09:53:53 <Orbixx> So is all the currency in the world.
1953 2010-12-07 09:54:05 <genjix> *grains of
1954 2010-12-07 09:54:12 <ArtForz> thats... about 500 trillion
1955 2010-12-07 09:54:20 <davux> Orbixx: only other currencies are printed again to compensate the loss
1956 2010-12-07 09:54:28 <ArtForz> errr
1957 2010-12-07 09:54:29 <ArtForz> quadrillion
1958 2010-12-07 09:54:37 <genjix> 5*10^14
1959 2010-12-07 09:54:39 <ArtForz> no, trillion
1960 2010-12-07 09:54:44 <ArtForz> I fucking hate non-SI prefixes
1961 2010-12-07 09:54:47 <genjix> by comparison
1962 2010-12-07 09:54:58 <genjix> 1 light year = 10^16
1963 2010-12-07 09:55:26 <genjix> 10^16 m
1964 2010-12-07 09:55:47 <genjix> that're more than enough btc to last 100 years IMO
1965 2010-12-07 09:56:13 <ESRogs> and then hopefully there will be a nice transition to something else...
1966 2010-12-07 09:56:46 <ESRogs> the 21*10^6 limit does seem a bit low though
1967 2010-12-07 09:57:06 <ESRogs> not sure why they wouldn't have made it a few orders of magnitude higher
1968 2010-12-07 09:57:10 <ESRogs> to remove any doubt
1969 2010-12-07 09:57:18 <ArtForz> it's really 21*10^14 of the smallest unit
1970 2010-12-07 09:57:22 <ESRogs> so it could be on par with number of dollars in the world
1971 2010-12-07 09:57:43 <ESRogs> yeah, but to how many places are standard financial transactions calculated
1972 2010-12-07 09:57:50 <ESRogs> at least 1/100 of USD
1973 2010-12-07 09:58:07 <ESRogs> probably a few more decimal places in some cases
1974 2010-12-07 09:58:21 <ArtForz> afair official smallest unit is 1 cent
1975 2010-12-07 09:58:39 <ESRogs> so the theoretical limit for BTC is around the range of USD money supply
1976 2010-12-07 09:58:59 <ESRogs> in terms of number of units (not value)
1977 2010-12-07 09:59:09 <ArtForz> sounds plausible
1978 2010-12-07 09:59:38 <ESRogs> so why not make it a few orders of magnitude higher to build in cushion
1979 2010-12-07 09:59:58 <ArtForz> no clue, we have plenty of space in the int64
1980 2010-12-07 10:00:03 <ESRogs> right
1981 2010-12-07 10:00:44 <ArtForz> could've made it 21*10^17 units
1982 2010-12-07 10:00:58 <ESRogs> 21*10^6*10^8 is more than 2^32, but less than 2^64...
1983 2010-12-07 10:01:41 <ESRogs> yeah... it woulda been cool if it were a power of 2
1984 2010-12-07 10:01:43 <ESRogs> oh well
1985 2010-12-07 10:01:47 <ESRogs> i guess it's cool anyway
1986 2010-12-07 10:02:01 <ESRogs> the term "cryptocurrency" is really helping this cause (of coolness)
1987 2010-12-07 10:02:21 <ESRogs> alright, it's 2am for me
1988 2010-12-07 10:02:24 <ESRogs> time for sleeping
1989 2010-12-07 10:02:30 <ESRogs> good night bitcoin-dev
1990 2010-12-07 10:02:31 <ArtForz> it happens to be kinda close to the largest value uniquely representable in a IEEE double, but that might be just coincidence
1991 2010-12-07 10:02:46 ESRogs has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1992 2010-12-07 10:04:08 altamic has joined
1993 2010-12-07 10:04:09 <doublec> 4 hours and my phone is still downloading the block list
1994 2010-12-07 10:04:28 <doublec> I think the battery will run out before it completes
1995 2010-12-07 10:04:32 <davux> haha
1996 2010-12-07 10:05:19 <davux> i'll rather use bitcoIM on my phone when it reaches a usable state
1997 2010-12-07 10:05:40 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1998 2010-12-07 10:18:56 redengin has joined
1999 2010-12-07 10:19:58 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2000 2010-12-07 10:20:21 CyanDynamo has joined
2001 2010-12-07 10:23:56 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2002 2010-12-07 10:29:45 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2003 2010-12-07 10:33:28 <genjix> Kiba: what format would you prefer for the json? javascript?
2004 2010-12-07 10:33:46 <genjix> python?
2005 2010-12-07 10:34:53 LobsterMan has joined
2006 2010-12-07 10:35:00 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
2007 2010-12-07 10:35:00 LobsterMan has joined
2008 2010-12-07 10:36:43 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937110 <- wikileaks' Julian Assange was arrested it seems
2009 2010-12-07 10:37:00 <genjix> holy shit
2010 2010-12-07 10:37:39 <genjix> stupid
2011 2010-12-07 10:38:50 <MT`AwAy> was bound to happen
2012 2010-12-07 10:43:23 <genjix> MT`AwAy: http://localhost/luk/listfiles.php?key=dinosaurs
2013 2010-12-07 10:43:32 <genjix> is that what you meant by public api?
2014 2010-12-07 10:43:53 <MT`AwAy> localhost ?
2015 2010-12-07 10:43:56 <MT`AwAy> (well, I guess)
2016 2010-12-07 10:43:58 <genjix> :p oops
2017 2010-12-07 10:44:00 <genjix> haha
2018 2010-12-07 10:44:42 <genjix> well i think i've done ti right anyway :)
2019 2010-12-07 10:52:32 <genjix> Kiba: http://pastecoin.com/api.php and http://pastecoin.com/listfiles.php?key=mysupersecretkey
2020 2010-12-07 10:53:24 psyvenrix has left ()
2021 2010-12-07 11:04:30 <OneFixt> Anyone want to buy L$ for BTC before I post it in OTC?
2022 2010-12-07 11:12:33 angus has quit (Quit: leaving)
2023 2010-12-07 11:27:55 <NOTtheMessiah> idea: raise awareness of bitcoins to wikileaks supporters pissed off at paypal.
2024 2010-12-07 11:28:00 RazielZ has joined
2025 2010-12-07 11:31:16 <MT`AwAy> NOTtheMessiah: wikileaks already replied "no" to bitcoins
2026 2010-12-07 11:31:23 <MT`AwAy> (too young, too difficult to exchange, etc)
2027 2010-12-07 11:35:46 <NOTtheMessiah> I wasn't suggesting donating BTC to wikileaks, instead, urge supporters who are boycotting paypal to consider alternatives to using paypal and government-backed currencies.
2028 2010-12-07 11:44:41 <ColonelPanic1> decentralized means of finance
2029 2010-12-07 11:46:54 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2030 2010-12-07 11:48:52 <Orbixx> I agree.
2031 2010-12-07 11:49:01 <Orbixx> If this isn't a shining opportunity to promote Bitcoin.
2032 2010-12-07 11:49:04 <Orbixx> I don't know what is.
2033 2010-12-07 11:49:27 mtgox has joined
2034 2010-12-07 11:49:33 * Orbixx waves to mtgox
2035 2010-12-07 11:51:39 LobsterMan has joined
2036 2010-12-07 11:51:40 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
2037 2010-12-07 11:51:40 LobsterMan has joined
2038 2010-12-07 11:52:39 <MT`AwAy> mh
2039 2010-12-07 11:52:41 <MT`AwAy> let me try too
2040 2010-12-07 11:52:45 * MT`AwAy waves to mtgox 
2041 2010-12-07 12:11:35 <Orbixx> So.
2042 2010-12-07 12:11:41 <Orbixx> Where do all the cool kids go to buy BTC?
2043 2010-12-07 12:22:55 <lolcat> #bitcoin-otc?
2044 2010-12-07 12:27:54 Hogofwar has joined
2045 2010-12-07 12:39:05 ciuciu has joined
2046 2010-12-07 12:39:48 <xelister_> Orbixx: mtgox.com
2047 2010-12-07 13:00:49 nelisky has joined
2048 2010-12-07 13:18:37 <genjix> this is sickening
2049 2010-12-07 13:18:50 <genjix> within a day, all of wikileaks banks close their accounts
2050 2010-12-07 13:18:56 <genjix> then julian assange is arrested
2051 2010-12-07 13:19:07 <genjix> tell me this is just a coincidence.
2052 2010-12-07 13:20:11 <bencoder> he turned himself in
2053 2010-12-07 13:20:25 <bencoder> he hasn't been charged with anything yet
2054 2010-12-07 13:20:43 duck1123 has joined
2055 2010-12-07 13:24:33 <genjix> that's called being arrested
2056 2010-12-07 13:24:44 <genjix> and he's been charged with rape
2057 2010-12-07 13:26:18 <MT`AwAy> genjix: for now they'll try to send him to sweden
2058 2010-12-07 13:26:34 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2059 2010-12-07 13:26:44 <MT`AwAy> but it's not sure they'll be able to send him immediatly
2060 2010-12-07 13:27:41 <genjix> "His details were also added to Interpol’s most wanted website, alerting police forces around the world."
2061 2010-12-07 13:27:45 <genjix> lol so fucked up.
2062 2010-12-07 13:28:02 <genjix> rapists/murderers should be on that list.
2063 2010-12-07 13:28:52 darrob has joined
2064 2010-12-07 13:29:26 <MT`AwAy> genjix: he was added for rape
2065 2010-12-07 13:30:13 <genjix> wikipedia says he was having sex with some girls and the condom broke.
2066 2010-12-07 13:30:18 <bencoder> "Stephens, told AOL News today that Swedish prosecutors told him that Assange is wanted not for allegations of rape, as previously reported, but for something called "sex by surprise," which he said involves a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715."
2067 2010-12-07 13:30:26 <bencoder> http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/12/sex-charges-and-arrest-warrant-against.html
2068 2010-12-07 13:30:55 <genjix> what is sex by surprise :p
2069 2010-12-07 13:31:24 <genjix> a chick is washing your dishes and then you creep up behind her...
2070 2010-12-07 13:31:29 <genjix> Sex By Surprise!
2071 2010-12-07 13:32:22 <mtgox> $715 seems worth it
2072 2010-12-07 13:34:37 <bonsaikitten> hmm, the surprise being that he had a penis?
2073 2010-12-07 13:34:49 * bonsaikitten is slightly confused about that whole story :)
2074 2010-12-07 13:35:11 <genjix> rape is a joke.
2075 2010-12-07 13:35:22 <genjix> he doesn't need to rape anyone
2076 2010-12-07 13:35:37 <genjix> im sure loads of women throw themselves at him
2077 2010-12-07 13:35:45 <genjix> guys too
2078 2010-12-07 13:38:27 <bonsaikitten> eh, the women even bragged on twitter about it for a few days before remembering that they didn't like it
2079 2010-12-07 13:38:27 <NOTtheMessiah> apparently "sex by surprise" is pretty much the legal term for rape in Sweden.
2080 2010-12-07 13:38:40 <bonsaikitten> the charges were dismissed until they weren't
2081 2010-12-07 13:44:16 <genjix> cool
2082 2010-12-07 13:44:17 <genjix> http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2028734_2028733,00.html
2083 2010-12-07 13:44:27 <genjix> hopefully assange will be on TIME
2084 2010-12-07 13:44:37 <genjix> (not that i like that crap but it sall helps)
2085 2010-12-07 13:52:39 cdecker has joined
2086 2010-12-07 13:56:23 acous has joined
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2088 2010-12-07 13:56:23 acous has joined
2089 2010-12-07 14:01:37 scibotic has joined
2090 2010-12-07 14:11:23 <xelister_> he should accept bitcoins
2091 2010-12-07 14:11:29 <xelister_> I dont get this guys
2092 2010-12-07 14:11:48 <xelister_> dont use freenet, dont use bitcoin, and then bitch about assets and servers frozen by gov-thugs
2093 2010-12-07 14:15:18 Zarutian has joined
2094 2010-12-07 14:18:19 <genjix> xelister_: they said no because bitcoin is too slow/early
2095 2010-12-07 14:18:28 <genjix> and satoshi said not to too
2096 2010-12-07 14:21:16 scibotic is now known as scibotic_
2097 2010-12-07 14:21:19 duck1123 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2098 2010-12-07 14:21:33 scibotic_ is now known as scibotic
2099 2010-12-07 14:21:50 scibotic is now known as scibotic_
2100 2010-12-07 14:21:57 scibotic_ is now known as scibotic__
2101 2010-12-07 14:22:04 scibotic__ is now known as scibotic
2102 2010-12-07 14:24:45 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2103 2010-12-07 14:25:02 <xelister_> genjix: "satoshi said do NOT use bitcoins for this"?
2104 2010-12-07 14:25:14 <xelister_> genjix: satoshi said do NOT use bitcoins for wikileaks?
2105 2010-12-07 14:28:11 <[Noodles]> think about what it means for bitcoin to show up on wikileaks, it's like a bullseye on our forehead
2106 2010-12-07 14:28:20 <[Noodles]> and besides that, what's in it for wikileaks?
2107 2010-12-07 14:28:30 <[Noodles]> nothing at all, pocket change
2108 2010-12-07 14:28:51 <[Noodles]> they need some serious cash, not just a few hundred bucks
2109 2010-12-07 14:29:13 <xelister_> well market depth should be enough
2110 2010-12-07 14:29:47 <xelister_> 10000 BTC = 2000 USD.. well, always few extra days of good lawyer work
2111 2010-12-07 14:31:25 <[Noodles]> the time just isnt right yet, satoshi's got a point there, although it would be nice promo for bitcoin
2112 2010-12-07 14:32:03 <Zarutian> ;;bc,stats
2113 2010-12-07 14:32:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96211 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 556 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 15 hours, 10 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11850.78365961
2114 2010-12-07 14:34:30 darrob has joined
2115 2010-12-07 14:34:39 <[Noodles]> but the whole wl-drama seems to drive some traffic to bitcoin anyway, lots of people want to leave paypal
2116 2010-12-07 14:35:08 <genjix> well its nice that EFF was advertising BTC on twitter
2117 2010-12-07 14:39:12 <scibotic> I found bitcoin through EFF.
2118 2010-12-07 14:39:29 <scibotic> I put a lot of trust into what EFF is willing to advocate.
2119 2010-12-07 14:42:40 DDevine has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2120 2010-12-07 14:47:33 <genjix> ;;bc,blocks
2121 2010-12-07 14:47:33 <gribble> 96215
2122 2010-12-07 14:51:18 <finnomenon> ;;bc,calc 600
2123 2010-12-07 14:51:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 43 weeks, 3 days, 6 hours, 46 minutes, and 14 seconds
2124 2010-12-07 14:55:47 <finnomenon> ;;bc,calc 2695
2125 2010-12-07 14:55:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2695 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 21 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes, and 37 seconds
2126 2010-12-07 14:58:40 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
2127 2010-12-07 14:58:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96216 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 551 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 14 hours, 31 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11865.09058561
2128 2010-12-07 15:00:10 jchysk has joined
2129 2010-12-07 15:04:05 <xelister_> scibotic: cheers
2130 2010-12-07 15:04:07 <xelister_> :)
2131 2010-12-07 15:04:55 <xelister_> [Noodles]: it's not like they're going to accuse Satoshi of raping an octopus in japan in 1990
2132 2010-12-07 15:05:32 <Kiba> ;;bc,stats 142000
2133 2010-12-07 15:05:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96217 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 550 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 14 hours, 25 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11863.61573712
2134 2010-12-07 15:05:43 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 142000
2135 2010-12-07 15:05:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 142000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 19 hours, 52 minutes, and 15 seconds
2136 2010-12-07 15:09:40 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2137 2010-12-07 15:12:16 <[Noodles]> xelister_: no, it's not about Satoshi, it's about our network, it might just become another target for 'them' to aim at, do you really want that?
2138 2010-12-07 15:13:17 <xelister_> [Noodles]: no, lets hide forever in fear
2139 2010-12-07 15:13:25 * xelister_ searches for a nearest rock
2140 2010-12-07 15:13:26 <[Noodles]> investing in bitcoin is risky enough already, no ned for the feds to hunt us down
2141 2010-12-07 15:13:36 <[Noodles]> *need
2142 2010-12-07 15:13:38 <xelister_> americans are so faggotized nowdays
2143 2010-12-07 15:14:06 <[Noodles]> i'm not american, i dont care about 'them'
2144 2010-12-07 15:14:13 <xelister_> if slavery of black men would be legal today, all americans would do, would be troll eachother on internet and tweet, instead start a war that ends in freedom ;)
2145 2010-12-07 15:14:52 Zarutian has joined
2146 2010-12-07 15:15:28 <[Noodles]> go ahead, call the wl-guys and give it a try, nothing Satoshi or anyone else can do about it anyway, if they decide to accept bitcoin
2147 2010-12-07 15:15:51 <[Noodles]> your choice
2148 2010-12-07 15:17:06 <xelister_> well with usa gov, like with all fascism. First they take out X, then Y, then you - but noone is left to say anything in your defense
2149 2010-12-07 15:17:31 <Teppy> It's an interesting thought experiment: If Bitcoin were suddenly on the government's radar, how would they attack it?
2150 2010-12-07 15:17:38 <xelister_> because you said nothing when they killed X and Y
2151 2010-12-07 15:17:51 <Teppy> They don't move very fast when it comes to outlawing things.
2152 2010-12-07 15:18:05 <Teppy> (US government.)
2153 2010-12-07 15:18:07 <xelister_> Teppy: to protect from delegalization, bitcoind should easly, perhaps even by default, work with TOR. Next, work over freenet
2154 2010-12-07 15:18:58 <Teppy> No, I'm asking how they would attack it. Legally, technically, by propaganda, how?
2155 2010-12-07 15:19:03 <xelister_> from other attacks... well they could put datacenters on it.. but I doubt
2156 2010-12-07 15:19:42 <Teppy> They could try to overwhelm the network, maybe they have enough computing power to do that.
2157 2010-12-07 15:20:01 <ArtForz> nah
2158 2010-12-07 15:20:13 <Teppy> Attacking MtGox would have a big effect.
2159 2010-12-07 15:20:17 <ArtForz> yep
2160 2010-12-07 15:24:38 <Kiba> decentralize money exchange
2161 2010-12-07 15:26:51 <Kiba> wee!
2162 2010-12-07 15:26:53 <Kiba> price drop again
2163 2010-12-07 15:27:41 <Kiba> frankly
2164 2010-12-07 15:27:50 <Kiba> it's going to be real hard to overcome the sell volume
2165 2010-12-07 15:28:25 <nanotube> yea, source for #bitcoin-otc is open. anyone can grab it and set up hundreds of irc channels for otc trading. that's pretty decentralized. :)
2166 2010-12-07 15:29:45 glassresistor has joined
2167 2010-12-07 15:29:46 <Teppy> I saw something on the EFF twitter feed about Wikileaks.
2168 2010-12-07 15:30:43 <Kiba> yeah.
2169 2010-12-07 15:30:45 <glassresistor> yeah dude just got arrested
2170 2010-12-07 15:30:56 <Kiba> some people found out bitcoin was..
2171 2010-12-07 15:31:26 <Teppy> No, I mean something on the EFF feed about both Wikileaks and Bitcoins.
2172 2010-12-07 15:31:32 <Teppy> Trying to find it.
2173 2010-12-07 15:33:31 <genjix> wait what
2174 2010-12-07 15:35:51 <Zarutian> nanotube: what does otc stand for?
2175 2010-12-07 15:35:58 <Kiba> Teppy: getting wikileak to adopt bitcoin is highly dangerous
2176 2010-12-07 15:36:03 <Kiba> Over the counter, Zarutian
2177 2010-12-07 15:36:28 <Teppy> Yeah, I know. I hope they don't do that.
2178 2010-12-07 15:36:46 <ArtForz> Kiba: agree
2179 2010-12-07 15:37:42 <nanotube> Zarutian: over the counter. see http://bitcoin-otc.com :)
2180 2010-12-07 15:39:13 samfisher has joined
2181 2010-12-07 15:40:00 <samfisher> hi, i have a small website and I'd like to add the USD/Bitcoin ratio. How can I do it so it updates at each 3hrs or so?
2182 2010-12-07 15:41:16 <Zarutian> samfisher: hmm.. http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/ might help
2183 2010-12-07 15:42:03 <genjix> samfisher: mtgox has a public API which gives JSON feeds
2184 2010-12-07 15:44:44 <samfisher> speaking of mt gox, how does the system works? you create an account because you want to buy bitcoins, let's say. How do you add dollars into that account?
2185 2010-12-07 15:44:55 <samfisher> does it accepts CCs, paypal etc?
2186 2010-12-07 15:44:57 <genjix> yep
2187 2010-12-07 15:45:10 <genjix> and then you bid and sell with other people
2188 2010-12-07 15:45:14 <genjix> mtgox does the exchanging
2189 2010-12-07 15:45:19 <Kiba> it doesn't accept CC and paypal
2190 2010-12-07 15:45:27 <Kiba> CC and paypal are bad money
2191 2010-12-07 15:45:37 <Kiba> bitcoin are irreversible, CC and paypal are not.
2192 2010-12-07 15:45:48 <samfisher> irreversible as in?
2193 2010-12-07 15:46:39 <Kiba> once you give bitcoin to somebody, you can't ask for a company to do a chargeback
2194 2010-12-07 15:46:51 <Kiba> it's gone unless the person refund, personally
2195 2010-12-07 15:47:06 <samfisher> oh, ok. i knew that, but the term wasn't familiar for me
2196 2010-12-07 15:47:25 <samfisher> then, how could i buy btc with my paypal or cc?
2197 2010-12-07 15:47:29 <samfisher> simple and fast
2198 2010-12-07 15:47:41 <samfisher> no mt.gox liberty reserve usd
2199 2010-12-07 15:48:41 <ArtForz> good luck with that
2200 2010-12-07 15:49:05 <samfisher> ?
2201 2010-12-07 15:49:27 <ArtForz> doing reversible->irreversible exchange is a high risk business
2202 2010-12-07 15:49:32 <tcatm> samfisher: #bitcoin-otc
2203 2010-12-07 15:49:43 <genjix> ArtForz: unless you add an insurance fee
2204 2010-12-07 15:49:48 <nanotube> samfisher: there's also bitcoingateway.com (usa-only for now)
2205 2010-12-07 15:50:01 <ArtForz> yep, and then you have people complaining about high fees
2206 2010-12-07 15:50:12 <gavinandresen> ArtForz:  I'm announcing my "reversible bitcoin transactions" service today:   https://clearcoin.appspot.com/
2207 2010-12-07 15:50:56 <ArtForz> neat
2208 2010-12-07 15:50:59 <genjix> mtgox: I got the account but then I need to wait a few more days again. Did you find out anything?
2209 2010-12-07 15:50:59 <samfisher> ArtForz: could you please detail a little?
2210 2010-12-07 15:52:39 <ArtForz> doing any kind of exchange between reversible transfers (CC, PP, ...) and irtrreversible ones (BTC, LR, WU, ...) attracts fraudsters like flies
2211 2010-12-07 15:52:53 <samfisher> If I want to introduce BTC as payment for a service I provide, I have to tell people how they could exchange US dollars from paypal or cc to BTC. That in the eventuality i'll accept only btc
2212 2010-12-07 15:53:23 <ArtForz> same problem with getting LR$ with CC or PP
2213 2010-12-07 15:54:09 <samfisher> so what should I do?
2214 2010-12-07 15:54:43 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2215 2010-12-07 15:54:53 <nelisky> samfisher: got to #bitcoin-otc
2216 2010-12-07 15:55:01 <nelisky> go*
2217 2010-12-07 15:55:06 <samfisher> yea
2218 2010-12-07 15:55:16 davex___ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2219 2010-12-07 15:55:19 <samfisher> it seems that the bitcoingateway.com accepts ccs
2220 2010-12-07 15:56:00 davex__ has joined
2221 2010-12-07 15:56:59 <nelisky> samfisher: for one off smallish amount I can help you with CC, but larger amounts only after you have built trust
2222 2010-12-07 15:57:16 <ArtForz> yep, and afaik they require quite a bit of verification to ... curb fraud
2223 2010-12-07 15:58:38 <Teppy> How BitcoinGateway does it is they ask for your bank's 1-800 number, and then after they do the preauth on your card, they call them to make sure your phone# matches the one that they have on record, and that it hasn't recently been changed.
2224 2010-12-07 15:59:14 <Teppy> Then they call you on a recorded line and ask for an ID number that they gave after the successful preauth.
2225 2010-12-07 15:59:39 <Kiba> we need to contain the meme of wikileak and bitcoin from spreading
2226 2010-12-07 16:00:07 <ArtForz> which is... quite a bit of verification ;)
2227 2010-12-07 16:00:36 <nanotube> Kiba: why, let it spread... wikileaks doesn't accept bitcoin... so the wikileaks-paypal debacle brings new people to consider bitcoin, nothing wrong with that.
2228 2010-12-07 16:03:36 <genjix> Kiba: i added previews and the public API http://pastecoin.com
2229 2010-12-07 16:03:52 <Kiba> yes, yes, yes. I KNOW, genjix
2230 2010-12-07 16:04:01 <genjix> kk
2231 2010-12-07 16:04:05 <Kiba> but I am not a robot producing art
2232 2010-12-07 16:04:14 grondilu has joined
2233 2010-12-07 16:04:18 johnyh has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2234 2010-12-07 16:04:21 <Kiba> I am huuuuuuuuman
2235 2010-12-07 16:05:01 <Teppy> genjix: Pastecoin is your site?
2236 2010-12-07 16:05:08 <genjix> yeah
2237 2010-12-07 16:05:19 <samfisher> it seems it's hard to introduce people to bitcoin
2238 2010-12-07 16:05:22 <Kiba> we have 3 download site competing with each other
2239 2010-12-07 16:05:25 <Teppy> Really awesome idea; perfect microtransaction thing.
2240 2010-12-07 16:05:32 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2241 2010-12-07 16:05:40 <Kiba> it's microtransaction and captcha at the same time, Teppy
2242 2010-12-07 16:05:48 johnyh has joined
2243 2010-12-07 16:05:52 <Kiba> that was the idea
2244 2010-12-07 16:06:44 <Teppy> How fast?
2245 2010-12-07 16:07:25 <Kiba> currently, all the download site just accept what you send
2246 2010-12-07 16:07:33 <Kiba> so it's pretty fast to get to the download stage
2247 2010-12-07 16:07:37 <Teppy> No, I mean how fast are the downloads?
2248 2010-12-07 16:07:49 <Kiba> plenty fast enough
2249 2010-12-07 16:08:07 <genjix> Teppy: do you have a website for dragons tale with screenshots?
2250 2010-12-07 16:08:19 <Teppy> http://www.dragons.tl
2251 2010-12-07 16:10:25 <Teppy> Nanotube came up with a cool game idea; it's now implemented - I'm showing it to him now. Jump in if you'd like to look.
2252 2010-12-07 16:12:48 <scibotic> If you need an illustrator or concept artist, give me a shout. :P
2253 2010-12-07 16:13:21 <tcatm> scibotic: I need a few icons in maybe two or three weeks.
2254 2010-12-07 16:13:25 scibotic has quit (Changing host)
2255 2010-12-07 16:13:25 scibotic has joined
2256 2010-12-07 16:13:41 <TheAncientGoat> Hey Teppy!
2257 2010-12-07 16:13:51 <Teppy> Hey, TAG!
2258 2010-12-07 16:14:17 <Kiba> we got constant twittering
2259 2010-12-07 16:14:21 <Kiba> about bitcoin
2260 2010-12-07 16:14:47 <TheAncientGoat> Kiba: Cool
2261 2010-12-07 16:14:54 <scibotic> tcatm, A few weeks as the deadline or when you'll actually need those kind of services?
2262 2010-12-07 16:15:07 <TheAncientGoat> Isn't ubituos basically the same as pastecoin - the grunge styling?
2263 2010-12-07 16:15:12 <tcatm> As in "then I'll know what exactly I need"
2264 2010-12-07 16:15:20 <scibotic> Okey dokey. :)
2265 2010-12-07 16:15:26 <Kiba> TheAncientGoat: grunge styling?
2266 2010-12-07 16:15:47 <tcatm> scibotic: Do you own an android phone?
2267 2010-12-07 16:15:47 <TheAncientGoat> Teppy: Still waiting for the Linux gaming news guy to get back :)
2268 2010-12-07 16:16:02 <scibotic> tcatm, Unfortunately no.
2269 2010-12-07 16:16:05 * Kiba is an artist
2270 2010-12-07 16:16:12 <TheAncientGoat> Kiba: The paint splatters are classic grunge webdesign style
2271 2010-12-07 16:16:13 <Kiba> who make art for bitcoin microbaconage
2272 2010-12-07 16:16:37 <Teppy> Ok. I still need to check out those sites.
2273 2010-12-07 16:16:42 <scibotic> Here's some doodles: http://www.alwaysdoodling.com/
2274 2010-12-07 16:16:48 <TheAncientGoat> I still don't know if I like the concept of micropaying before I actually see the content
2275 2010-12-07 16:16:57 <TheAncientGoat> Although your drawing was pretty cool, Kiba
2276 2010-12-07 16:17:52 <TheAncientGoat> Teppy: LMGTFY: http://linuxgamingnews.org/ http://www.gamingonlinux.info/  http://www.linuxgames.com/ :)
2277 2010-12-07 16:17:56 darrob has joined
2278 2010-12-07 16:18:17 <scibotic> HappyPenguin :D
2279 2010-12-07 16:19:03 <Teppy> scibotic: Nice stuff - passing it on to SLWilson
2280 2010-12-07 16:19:19 <TheAncientGoat> scibotic: Isn't their login system still borked?
2281 2010-12-07 16:19:41 <scibotic> TheAncientGoat, The site was always in a perpetual state of borkness.
2282 2010-12-07 16:19:52 <scibotic> Just of varying degrees.
2283 2010-12-07 16:20:01 <TheAncientGoat> Heh
2284 2010-12-07 16:20:08 <scibotic> Teppy, Who's that? D:
2285 2010-12-07 16:20:10 <TheAncientGoat> Well, no submissions since sept 30
2286 2010-12-07 16:20:14 <MT`AwAy> http://wlcentral.org/node/545 <- anyone from UK here?
2287 2010-12-07 16:20:22 <Teppy> I think ATITD is on LinuxGames.
2288 2010-12-07 16:20:25 <TheAncientGoat> Teppy: Also this: http://opengameart.org/
2289 2010-12-07 16:20:39 xelister_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2290 2010-12-07 16:20:40 <TheAncientGoat> Everyone here, actually :P Wanna get them to accept bitcoin donations
2291 2010-12-07 16:20:48 <Kiba> opemgameart should accept bitcoin!
2292 2010-12-07 16:20:55 <TheAncientGoat> Kiba: Totally, right?
2293 2010-12-07 16:21:09 <TheAncientGoat> They had some kind of issue with paypal as well
2294 2010-12-07 16:21:23 xelister has joined
2295 2010-12-07 16:21:24 <Kiba> let talk to them right now!
2296 2010-12-07 16:21:42 <Kiba> #opengameart
2297 2010-12-07 16:21:48 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
2298 2010-12-07 16:21:52 <genjix> #bitcoin seems to be all one poster named hackerkiba
2299 2010-12-07 16:21:56 <TheAncientGoat> <BartK> google checkout can do it, but I have to fill out some IRS forms to officially become a nonprofit
2300 2010-12-07 16:21:56 <TheAncientGoat> <BartK> which obligates me to more stringent record keeping
2301 2010-12-07 16:21:56 <TheAncientGoat> <pfunked> blah
2302 2010-12-07 16:21:56 <TheAncientGoat> <BartK> I'll look into other alternatives
2303 2010-12-07 16:22:12 <genjix> hardly constant twittering
2304 2010-12-07 16:22:51 <Kiba> that me, genjix!
2305 2010-12-07 16:23:26 <genjix> figured
2306 2010-12-07 16:23:40 <genjix> TheAncientGoat: yeh except i dont require the hassle of making an account
2307 2010-12-07 16:23:56 <genjix> uses your ip. and i generate thumbnails and also have a public API
2308 2010-12-07 16:23:58 <TheAncientGoat> genjix: That's true, put me off of ubituos as well a bit
2309 2010-12-07 16:24:03 <TheAncientGoat> Howeeeever
2310 2010-12-07 16:24:15 <TheAncientGoat> How do you handle dynamic/shared ip's?
2311 2010-12-07 16:24:38 <genjix> no, the whole point is you want to buy a file, you pay
2312 2010-12-07 16:24:44 <genjix> its not an online bank :p
2313 2010-12-07 16:25:45 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2314 2010-12-07 16:26:47 <genjix> how can I get a list of bitcoin accounts?
2315 2010-12-07 16:27:03 <TheAncientGoat> Ah, I see there. Still though, isn't there a situation, if you only use IP's that some people can get content that other's payed for/get other's payments?
2316 2010-12-07 16:27:39 <genjix> maybe but its not a big deal for the time being :p
2317 2010-12-07 16:28:17 albatross has joined
2318 2010-12-07 16:28:59 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
2319 2010-12-07 16:30:11 <Kiba> hmm
2320 2010-12-07 16:30:23 <Kiba> maybe a public API is not the best way to keep me locked in..
2321 2010-12-07 16:31:15 lolcat is now known as k104k
2322 2010-12-07 16:31:45 k104k is now known as Guest14654
2323 2010-12-07 16:32:01 Guest14654 is now known as lolcat
2324 2010-12-07 16:34:02 Diablo-D3 has joined
2325 2010-12-07 16:35:54 ColonelPanic1 has joined
2326 2010-12-07 16:36:47 <xelister> Diablo-D3: wazup
2327 2010-12-07 16:37:19 <xelister> found new problems with your miner
2328 2010-12-07 16:37:47 <xelister> sometimes it drops to half speed (the reported speed; in addition to the possibility that HALF of reported speed hashes are anyway wrong)
2329 2010-12-07 16:38:13 <xelister> Diablo-D3: as if it would sometimes have some kernel lockup or shit, but not detecting it / not restarting.  Using yesterday's modifications. On real net
2330 2010-12-07 16:46:57 nelisky has joined
2331 2010-12-07 16:47:31 ColonelPanic2 has joined
2332 2010-12-07 16:47:44 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2333 2010-12-07 16:51:17 nelisky has quit (Client Quit)
2334 2010-12-07 16:54:36 ColonelPanic2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2335 2010-12-07 16:55:50 ColonelPanic1 has joined
2336 2010-12-07 17:00:30 altamic has joined
2337 2010-12-07 17:05:06 altamic_ has joined
2338 2010-12-07 17:08:22 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2339 2010-12-07 17:08:22 altamic_ is now known as altamic
2340 2010-12-07 17:12:12 joey has joined
2341 2010-12-07 17:15:17 ColonelPanic2 has joined
2342 2010-12-07 17:16:09 BeholdMyGlory has joined
2343 2010-12-07 17:17:44 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2344 2010-12-07 17:19:28 <Kiba> this
2345 2010-12-07 17:19:32 <Kiba> DomainChain thing
2346 2010-12-07 17:19:43 <Kiba> It's the stuff that hackers live for
2347 2010-12-07 17:20:17 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: what?
2348 2010-12-07 17:20:37 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I dont think its suffering from kernel lockup
2349 2010-12-07 17:20:41 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: most awesome hacker evar?
2350 2010-12-07 17:20:44 <Kiba> hack*
2351 2010-12-07 17:20:51 <Diablo-D3> xelister: it restarts the thread after like 15 seconds
2352 2010-12-07 17:21:34 ColonelPanic1 has joined
2353 2010-12-07 17:21:49 ColonelPanic2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2354 2010-12-07 17:21:54 <Diablo-D3> xelister: assuming it hasnt queued a kernel since then
2355 2010-12-07 17:22:08 <Diablo-D3> xelister: also, yesterday's modifications dont seem to fix anything
2356 2010-12-07 17:22:31 <joey> Hi, is there anyway to turn OFF the debug log in the unix bitcoin client?
2357 2010-12-07 17:22:38 gates_ has joined
2358 2010-12-07 17:22:46 <Kiba> joeydangerous?
2359 2010-12-07 17:23:29 <joey> no, just joey :-0
2360 2010-12-07 17:24:01 BeholdMyGlory has left ("Konversation terminated!")
2361 2010-12-07 17:24:12 <joey> I could say he's my alter ego but I'm not that graphically inclined.
2362 2010-12-07 17:25:15 altamic_ has joined
2363 2010-12-07 17:25:17 <Kiba> there was an artist named joeydangerous
2364 2010-12-07 17:25:19 <Kiba> that you?
2365 2010-12-07 17:25:26 <Kiba> so far, I am the only artist in the community
2366 2010-12-07 17:25:32 <Kiba> active, excuse me.
2367 2010-12-07 17:26:21 <Diablo-D3> joey: I dont think there is yet
2368 2010-12-07 17:26:55 <Kiba> barely anybody understand bitcoin enough to modify it?
2369 2010-12-07 17:26:57 <joey> Kiba: no, that's a different Joey
2370 2010-12-07 17:27:29 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2371 2010-12-07 17:27:29 altamic_ is now known as altamic
2372 2010-12-07 17:27:38 <joey> thanks Diablo-D3. what's the best way to recommend that feature be implemented?
2373 2010-12-07 17:28:55 bitanarchy has joined
2374 2010-12-07 17:30:00 <bitanarchy> Where does the bitcoin client get its peers from? That is the ip addresses to download the blocks from.
2375 2010-12-07 17:30:36 <davex__> there's a bunch of seeds hard-coded in the source, looks like.
2376 2010-12-07 17:31:00 <bitanarchy> what is a seed?
2377 2010-12-07 17:31:05 NOTtheMessiah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2378 2010-12-07 17:31:15 <davex__> i think just a node
2379 2010-12-07 17:31:18 <Kiba> seeds are what you connect to
2380 2010-12-07 17:31:29 <Diablo-D3> joey: ask on the forum
2381 2010-12-07 17:31:38 <bitanarchy> how many seeds are there?
2382 2010-12-07 17:31:40 * Kiba get to work
2383 2010-12-07 17:31:48 <davex__> like 50 or 100.  don't remember
2384 2010-12-07 17:32:59 <bitanarchy> Do clients only connect to the seeds and not to other nodes? I thought it was a p2p network..
2385 2010-12-07 17:33:54 <[Noodles]> it does, from hardcoded seeds, from an irc-channel (if not turned off) and from nodes its connected to
2386 2010-12-07 17:34:11 <donpdonp> bitanarchy: there is no 'seed' in the bittorrent sense, a node is a node is a node. plus what noodles said
2387 2010-12-07 17:34:29 <Diablo-D3> bitanarchy: clients have a hardcoded list of clients just in case it cant contact others
2388 2010-12-07 17:34:38 <Diablo-D3> those clients are guaranteed to always be up
2389 2010-12-07 17:34:56 <donpdonp> unless they start leaking US diplomatic cables.
2390 2010-12-07 17:35:10 <Diablo-D3> donpdonp: they're not hosted at amazon ;)
2391 2010-12-07 17:35:15 <donpdonp> Diablo-D3: ha!
2392 2010-12-07 17:35:27 mndrix has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2393 2010-12-07 17:35:36 theymos has joined
2394 2010-12-07 17:35:48 <[Noodles]> actually you only need to know one ip that runs a node (if you use the -connect=<ip> switch for example, you'll only be connected to a single node), everything else will go from there
2395 2010-12-07 17:36:19 <midnightmagic> Request for help: I've been running about 250-300M hash/sec (using poclbm.py) since Saturday but bitcoind getinfo shows a balance of 0.000. is there some other way of examining the wallet.dat file for coins?
2396 2010-12-07 17:36:34 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you havent gotten any.
2397 2010-12-07 17:36:45 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 300000
2398 2010-12-07 17:36:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 day, 8 hours, 7 minutes, and 31 seconds
2399 2010-12-07 17:36:51 <bitanarchy> Which irc channel contains all the nodes in the network?
2400 2010-12-07 17:37:47 <[Noodles]> all of them? none
2401 2010-12-07 17:38:04 <bitanarchy> Well every node registers at the irc channel right?
2402 2010-12-07 17:38:12 <[Noodles]> no
2403 2010-12-07 17:38:12 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: I ask mostly because I used a few commands like getaccountaddress and so forth..
2404 2010-12-07 17:38:29 <[Noodles]> if you dont want it to connect to irc, you can use the -noirc switch
2405 2010-12-07 17:38:32 <theymos> bitanarchy: #bitcoin on irc.lfnet.org. Just most nodes, not all.
2406 2010-12-07 17:38:40 <midnightmagic> and at a point recently, I used "getnewaddress" so I could put a label to it.
2407 2010-12-07 17:39:46 <midnightmagic> also, yesterday I was told that putting "setgenerate false" wouldn't turn off external miners via the getwork command, and coins would still be minted.
2408 2010-12-07 17:40:02 <ArtForz> it doesnt, and they will
2409 2010-12-07 17:40:34 <xelister> Diablo-D3: yea :/
2410 2010-12-07 17:40:36 <bitanarchy> theymos: what is the easiest way to see the list of nodes in irc.lfnet.org/@bitcoin?
2411 2010-12-07 17:40:44 <midnightmagic> =] just.. getting a little on in time.. close to the 95% now.. guess.. you know.. little impatient.. wanna spend some coins.. etc.. *mumble mumble* :-)
2412 2010-12-07 17:40:47 <xelister> Diablo-D3: do you have any idea how to try to improve it all? :(
2413 2010-12-07 17:41:39 <Diablo-D3> xelister: buy me a 5970.
2414 2010-12-07 17:41:58 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: generation isnt effected by addresses
2415 2010-12-07 17:42:03 <theymos> bitanarchy: I don't know. I suppose there's probably some tool you can use to get a list of people in an IRC channel.
2416 2010-12-07 17:42:08 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: generation is very slow due to the high difficulty
2417 2010-12-07 17:43:09 <midnightmagic> 1 day seems quick to me..
2418 2010-12-07 17:44:04 <midnightmagic> i will trust, and continue mining then! :-)
2419 2010-12-07 17:44:58 <bitanarchy> why does my bitcoin client never see more that 8 nodes?
2420 2010-12-07 17:45:26 <ArtForz> probably not getting inbound connections
2421 2010-12-07 17:45:37 <bitanarchy> that's right
2422 2010-12-07 17:45:50 <ArtForz> outgoing is limited to 8
2423 2010-12-07 17:46:03 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: why?
2424 2010-12-07 17:46:08 <ArtForz> because.
2425 2010-12-07 17:47:37 <xelister> Diablo-D3: ok? O_o ;) p.m.
2426 2010-12-07 17:47:52 <xelister> because what
2427 2010-12-07 17:48:13 <ArtForz> because thats the way it is
2428 2010-12-07 17:48:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hrm, that could be hacked around easily though
2429 2010-12-07 17:48:19 <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt mind setting it to infinity
2430 2010-12-07 17:48:26 <bitanarchy> When you only have inbound ip links, does that mean you have to poll for new transactions and blocks. Or can you send a response without a request on an ip channel?
2431 2010-12-07 17:48:37 <ArtForz> yes, but the rest of the network might
2432 2010-12-07 17:48:38 <bitanarchy> Sorry only outbound I mean
2433 2010-12-07 17:48:47 <ArtForz> with 8 outbound per node, tha vg number of inbound per node is ... 8
2434 2010-12-07 17:48:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: why, because all the sudden everyone listens to me?
2435 2010-12-07 17:49:12 <ArtForz> if everyone were doing 100 outbount, everyone would also see 100 inbound
2436 2010-12-07 17:49:13 <Diablo-D3> https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/12114747864391680
2437 2010-12-07 17:49:16 <Diablo-D3> shit.
2438 2010-12-07 17:49:24 <ArtForz> pretty damn obvious
2439 2010-12-07 17:49:44 <theymos> When the outbound was 15, I would sometimes get like 120 inbound connections.
2440 2010-12-07 17:50:07 <ArtForz> because (obivously) inbound are distributed over the subset of nodesa ceepting inbound
2441 2010-12-07 17:50:28 <ArtForz> if half of the nodes are accepting inbound, each of them sees 16 inbound on avg
2442 2010-12-07 17:50:31 <donpdonp> is the demand for block generation dependent on the amount of new transactions to record? could it be the case that the current miners simply run out of work because bitcoin transfer traffic is low?
2443 2010-12-07 17:50:38 <ArtForz> no
2444 2010-12-07 17:50:48 <donpdonp> ArtForz: is that to me?
2445 2010-12-07 17:50:52 <ArtForz> yes
2446 2010-12-07 17:50:56 <donpdonp> ha.
2447 2010-12-07 17:51:03 <donpdonp> ArtForz: why is that not the case?
2448 2010-12-07 17:51:07 <ArtForz> if theres no TX to include in a block, then no TX (except for the 50-to-finder) are included.
2449 2010-12-07 17:51:25 <donpdonp> ArtForz: ah, esentially empty blocks.
2450 2010-12-07 17:52:19 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/
2451 2010-12-07 17:52:36 <donpdonp> whats the goal of the difficulty level? i heard it tries to keep block generation around one per 10 minutes.
2452 2010-12-07 17:52:40 <ArtForz> yep
2453 2010-12-07 17:53:14 <ArtForz> every 2016 blocks difficulty is adjusted according to time taken for the 2016 blocks vs. the 14 days it should've taken
2454 2010-12-07 17:53:45 <donpdonp> interesting. then there is a specific date when the 21,000,000 bitcoin cap is reached right? what is that date?
2455 2010-12-07 17:53:55 <ArtForz> 2138 or so I think
2456 2010-12-07 17:54:06 <donpdonp> lolz. that makes sense.
2457 2010-12-07 17:54:24 <donpdonp> oh 2138, not the epoch at 2038.
2458 2010-12-07 17:54:32 <ArtForz> yep
2459 2010-12-07 17:55:00 <donpdonp> k. thx for the info!
2460 2010-12-07 18:01:06 <donpdonp> 21,000,000 coins = 420,000 blocks * 10 min/block = 4,200,000 minutes = 2916 days.
2461 2010-12-07 18:01:25 <donpdonp> 2916 days from now = 1-dec-2018, though obviously bitcoin started before today.
2462 2010-12-07 18:02:41 <ArtForz> wrong
2463 2010-12-07 18:02:45 <theymos> donpdonp: You're not taking into account the subsidy adjustment. http://blockexplorer.com/q/changeparams?interval=210000&precision=8&subsidy=50
2464 2010-12-07 18:02:54 <ArtForz> yep
2465 2010-12-07 18:03:01 <ArtForz> subsidy halves every 210000 blocks
2466 2010-12-07 18:03:11 <donpdonp> ah! thx
2467 2010-12-07 18:03:24 <donpdonp> how many coins did the subsidy start at?
2468 2010-12-07 18:03:28 <ArtForz> 50
2469 2010-12-07 18:03:41 <ArtForz> we're only at block 96251
2470 2010-12-07 18:03:54 <donpdonp> got it.
2471 2010-12-07 18:04:04 <ArtForz> so it's 10500000 total for the first 210000 blocks, 5250000 for the next 210000, ...
2472 2010-12-07 18:04:30 <donpdonp> the system really sticks it to the miners at time goes on :)
2473 2010-12-07 18:04:35 <donpdonp> s/at/as/
2474 2010-12-07 18:05:39 <bitanarchy> What if all the generating nodes decide to ignore the subsidy reduction and just continue on 50 bitcoin per block :-)
2475 2010-12-07 18:05:56 <theymos> The clients will reject those blocks and the coins will be worthless.
2476 2010-12-07 18:06:18 <bitanarchy> the nodes that generate the blocks are the ones that do the rejecting
2477 2010-12-07 18:06:30 <donpdonp> bitanarchy: if you can get a majority of nodes to run that version, you can set it up however you want
2478 2010-12-07 18:06:39 <ArtForz> no, every client decides if a block is valid for himself
2479 2010-12-07 18:06:43 <theymos> bitanarchy: The clients are the ones with actual resources...
2480 2010-12-07 18:07:01 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2481 2010-12-07 18:07:13 <ArtForz> so if buyers/sellers dont run the changed version, the generators just produce blocks nobody will accept
2482 2010-12-07 18:07:16 <bitanarchy> the non-generating clients will reject the blocks, but the generating ones will all accept them
2483 2010-12-07 18:07:50 <ArtForz> well, the ones running the changed rules one
2484 2010-12-07 18:07:50 <theymos> If blocks are filled to 1MB, the average transaction size is 216 bytes, and each transaction pays a fee of 0.01, then each block will give 46.30 BTC to the generator, which is quite a bit.
2485 2010-12-07 18:08:04 <donpdonp> bitanarchy: which is why its important for there to be a lot of nodes, which the subsidy encourages. its a genious setup :)
2486 2010-12-07 18:08:08 <theymos> bitanarchy: And what will they buy with these fake coins?
2487 2010-12-07 18:08:12 <ArtForz> exactly
2488 2010-12-07 18:08:25 altamic has joined
2489 2010-12-07 18:08:40 <ArtForz> they'll be creating their own forked-chain world, which gets ignored by "stock" clients
2490 2010-12-07 18:08:51 <xelister> jgarzik: hi p/
2491 2010-12-07 18:09:08 <donpdonp> it makes a profound psychological statement. what is reality? reality is what most people agree to.
2492 2010-12-07 18:09:16 <xelister> jgarzik: we are looking at your mobile bitcoin QR application idea. Main target would be android, iphone, or both?
2493 2010-12-07 18:09:28 <ArtForz> yep, and reality of money is it's a means of exchange
2494 2010-12-07 18:09:44 <xelister> jgarzik: with iphone one consideration is that you nned really modern model (4) to have camera working with no trouble with normal QR
2495 2010-12-07 18:10:00 nelisky has joined
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2497 2010-12-07 18:10:02 nelisky has joined
2498 2010-12-07 18:10:12 <ArtForz> if you cant trade your not-quite-bitcoins for something else of value, they're worthless
2499 2010-12-07 18:10:39 <theymos> Unless you are a politician. Then you can force everyone to use your useless paper.
2500 2010-12-07 18:10:52 <donpdonp> theymos: ha. so true.
2501 2010-12-07 18:10:57 <ArtForz> so essentially the market decides, not amount of generation power or # of generating nodes
2502 2010-12-07 18:10:58 <jgarzik> xelister: main target should be all mass market phones...  iphone, android and java
2503 2010-12-07 18:11:02 <donpdonp> guns change the equasion.
2504 2010-12-07 18:11:06 <xelister> xelister: that is possible
2505 2010-12-07 18:11:10 <jgarzik> xelister: J2ME phones exist in the millions
2506 2010-12-07 18:11:13 <xelister> xelister: funds are a big higher though ;)
2507 2010-12-07 18:11:40 <Diablo-D3> wait hold up
2508 2010-12-07 18:11:45 <Diablo-D3> [01:08:34] <xelister> jgarzik: we are looking at your mobile bitcoin QR application idea. Main target would be android, iphone, or both?
2509 2010-12-07 18:11:49 <Diablo-D3> since when was it his idea?
2510 2010-12-07 18:11:54 <xelister> jgarzik: for the iPhones, it is said that best would be for iPhone4.. since 3G doesnt have autofocus, and 3GS have AF but is just 3 megapixels
2511 2010-12-07 18:11:55 <TheAncientGoat> Kiba: You use Twitter, but not identica?
2512 2010-12-07 18:11:57 <TheAncientGoat> For shame
2513 2010-12-07 18:11:59 <TheAncientGoat> :P
2514 2010-12-07 18:12:16 <xelister> jgarzik: it don't have to be neseserly the standard QR code, does it?
2515 2010-12-07 18:12:17 <ArtForz> generation will drop to 0 after 33 halvings, at 210000 blocks/halving thats 6.93M blocks or ~131 years
2516 2010-12-07 18:12:19 <Diablo-D3> xelister: qr codes dont need to be sharp or high res
2517 2010-12-07 18:12:19 <jgarzik> xelister: QR was designed to tolerate at least a bit of that
2518 2010-12-07 18:12:29 <Diablo-D3> xelister: qr was designed to be taken on absolute shit
2519 2010-12-07 18:12:52 <xelister> hm indeed
2520 2010-12-07 18:13:02 <Diablo-D3> so 3g phones would be fin
2521 2010-12-07 18:13:10 <donpdonp> ArtForz: the halvings could be used as a kind of calendar for bitcoin nerds.
2522 2010-12-07 18:13:10 <Diablo-D3> you just have to get it to fill the frame and be somewhat straight
2523 2010-12-07 18:13:22 <jgarzik> xelister: the code should be standard (QR or DataMatrix probably), otherwise nobody will have libs for it, nobody will have tested it, nobody will have certified it works for blurry photos, ...  you DON'T want to start over and design your own scan-able standard.
2524 2010-12-07 18:13:23 <donpdonp> ArtForz: like solstice parties :)
2525 2010-12-07 18:13:26 <ArtForz> yeah, they're pretty major events
2526 2010-12-07 18:13:33 <jgarzik> tons of work has already gone into QR-code / DataMatrix
2527 2010-12-07 18:13:42 <Diablo-D3> but whatever
2528 2010-12-07 18:13:44 <Diablo-D3> I dont care.
2529 2010-12-07 18:13:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: dont you have a spare box with a single 5970 in it?
2530 2010-12-07 18:14:14 <ArtForz> nope, but I will soon
2531 2010-12-07 18:14:16 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: Let's say there will appear two persons of the software: one that will reduce the subsidy and the other will not. All generating nodes will choose the first one. Since the generating nodes create the chain, there will be no fork.... only one chain. All the people that want to make payments or see their ballence now have to run the version of the client that the generating nodes use.
2532 2010-12-07 18:14:26 <bitanarchy> two version...
2533 2010-12-07 18:14:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: bleh.
2534 2010-12-07 18:14:52 <Diablo-D3> bitanarchy: that doesnt make sense
2535 2010-12-07 18:15:01 <ArtForz> why would ALL generators collude?
2536 2010-12-07 18:15:01 <Diablo-D3> bitanarchy: as long as all clients contain compatible code, things are fine
2537 2010-12-07 18:15:11 <Diablo-D3> also, generators collude anyhow
2538 2010-12-07 18:15:27 <Diablo-D3> clients repeat chain details that they think the most clients agree on
2539 2010-12-07 18:15:39 <Diablo-D3> forks are quickly squashed when they naturally occur
2540 2010-12-07 18:16:03 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: the q is what happens when someone releases a client that changes the rules what a valid block is
2541 2010-12-07 18:16:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the client wont work
2542 2010-12-07 18:16:25 <xelister> yeah anyway QR uses error correction codes
2543 2010-12-07 18:16:29 <Diablo-D3> other clients will squash the chain fork as incorrect
2544 2010-12-07 18:16:30 <xelister> so.. we should be good :)
2545 2010-12-07 18:16:46 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: You are right.... it is most likely that most generating nodes will stay with the old software and not change it right before that subsidy reduction.
2546 2010-12-07 18:17:19 <ArtForz> gotta go, bbl
2547 2010-12-07 18:17:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the only way to get a perm fork is if the majority of clients use the new client
2548 2010-12-07 18:18:07 Toadyonps3 has joined
2549 2010-12-07 18:18:15 <bitanarchy> Why is there no gradual reduction of the subsidy just like the increase of the difficulty.... now there will be a large jump down at once
2550 2010-12-07 18:22:08 <midnightmagic> is there a message in the debug.log that I can watch for with glee when a chain is found to be invalid? :-)
2551 2010-12-07 18:22:33 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: proof of work found
2552 2010-12-07 18:22:38 <theymos> midnightmagic: ORPHAN BLOCK
2553 2010-12-07 18:22:48 <jgarzik> oh, invalid.  what theymos said.
2554 2010-12-07 18:22:50 <midnightmagic> hee hee! awesome..!
2555 2010-12-07 18:23:49 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
2556 2010-12-07 18:23:59 darrob has joined
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2558 2010-12-07 18:26:40 <genjix> how do i make a poll on the forums
2559 2010-12-07 18:28:00 <joey> hmm 8069khash/s  ... I guess that's ok
2560 2010-12-07 18:28:24 <theymos> genjix: "post new poll", next to "new topic".
2561 2010-12-07 18:28:30 <genjix> thanks
2562 2010-12-07 18:36:36 Hogofwar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2563 2010-12-07 18:37:53 <bitanarchy> I was thinking that the change of generating a block is (cpu power of your node)/(total cpu power in the bitcoin network). Is this true?
2564 2010-12-07 18:38:01 <bitanarchy> chance
2565 2010-12-07 18:38:24 <ArtForz> yeah
2566 2010-12-07 18:38:52 <theymos> Not exactly. It's based on the current target, which is off from the actual network's CPU power by a bit.
2567 2010-12-07 18:38:57 <ArtForz> no
2568 2010-12-07 18:39:16 <ArtForz> your chance if finding block X is (your hashrate / total hashrate)
2569 2010-12-07 18:39:29 <ArtForz> total blocks/time = total hashrate / difficulty
2570 2010-12-07 18:40:09 <theymos> The chance of generating a block is target / UINT256_MAX, with no regard for actual network size.
2571 2010-12-07 18:40:14 <ArtForz> yes
2572 2010-12-07 18:40:29 <ArtForz> and if you are the only generating node, your chance of finding the next block is ... 1
2573 2010-12-07 18:41:13 <theymos> He said chance of generating *a* block, not the *next* block.
2574 2010-12-07 18:41:31 <ArtForz> yes, *a* block, as in one specific block
2575 2010-12-07 18:41:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: do you think my miner is worth working on/
2576 2010-12-07 18:42:45 Hogofwar has joined
2577 2010-12-07 18:42:48 <ArtForz> difficulty determines how big your chance of finding a block on any given try is
2578 2010-12-07 18:43:08 <midnightmagic> well, seeing as how poclbm.py is currently (for some reason) eating up 100% of a single core, per instance, I would say anything that doesn't do that is a good project. :)
2579 2010-12-07 18:43:25 <ArtForz> but as everyone has the same difficulty, the chance of you vs. someone else finding a block is your hashrate / total hashrate
2580 2010-12-07 18:45:29 Hogofwar has quit (Client Quit)
2581 2010-12-07 18:45:41 <albatross> ;;bc,stats
2582 2010-12-07 18:45:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96256 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 511 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 9 hours, 39 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11933.89598517
2583 2010-12-07 18:46:24 <albatross> when did we hit 8078? thursday?
2584 2010-12-07 18:46:38 <bitanarchy> theymos: target = 1/difficulty?
2585 2010-12-07 18:46:52 <Diablo-D3> I love how art doesnt answer
2586 2010-12-07 18:47:02 <ArtForz> answer what?
2587 2010-12-07 18:47:09 <ArtForz> oh, that one
2588 2010-12-07 18:47:21 <ArtForz> imo... not really
2589 2010-12-07 18:47:26 <Diablo-D3> heh.
2590 2010-12-07 18:47:30 <albatross> Diablo-D3: I just haven't understood what the advantage of your miner vs. m0mchil is
2591 2010-12-07 18:47:37 <ArtForz> lugging java around for a miner is a major PITA
2592 2010-12-07 18:47:52 <Diablo-D3> albatross: mines faster and it handles multiple devices in a single process
2593 2010-12-07 18:48:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no worse than lugging around perl or python or anything else
2594 2010-12-07 18:48:13 <Diablo-D3> albatross: m0 also doesnt seem to spend much time on his
2595 2010-12-07 18:48:14 <ArtForz> my miner is written in C ...
2596 2010-12-07 18:48:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yours isnt open source
2597 2010-12-07 18:48:27 <ArtForz> yep
2598 2010-12-07 18:48:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so I cant imagine that being very useful
2599 2010-12-07 18:48:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, do me a favor... your kernel outputs a nonce like mine and m0's does, right?
2600 2010-12-07 18:48:50 samfisher has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2601 2010-12-07 18:48:57 <ArtForz> errr... not quite
2602 2010-12-07 18:49:05 <Diablo-D3> your kernel has to output something
2603 2010-12-07 18:49:33 samfisher has joined
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2605 2010-12-07 18:49:33 samfisher has joined
2606 2010-12-07 18:49:34 <albatross> Diablo-D3: faster, 10% maybe...it's fairly irrelevant. multiple devices/single process...i prefer it separate. java...bleh...so, i use m0mchil because it's cake to set up
2607 2010-12-07 18:49:43 <ArtForz> yep
2608 2010-12-07 18:49:48 <Diablo-D3> albatross: mine is just as easy to setup as his
2609 2010-12-07 18:49:51 <midnightmagic> python isn't a great miner platform, at least in its current incarnation. i'm pretty sure my GPUs can do better than a max of 300M/sec. they seem to be bottlenecked. the cards are barely seeing 40%-70% utilization, and sometimes (often) drop to 0,, while the python processes eat up 100% of a single core of a 1090T at all times. I'm pretty sure a C version would exercise the GPU better.
2610 2010-12-07 18:49:55 <ArtForz> usually just nonce+0x80000
2611 2010-12-07 18:50:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, you check if G < target is the host code.... check if H still is == 0 as well
2612 2010-12-07 18:50:16 <ArtForz> yep
2613 2010-12-07 18:50:23 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: use sdk 2.1
2614 2010-12-07 18:50:53 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: mine will consume 100% cpu on 2.2 as well
2615 2010-12-07 18:50:59 <ArtForz> so does mine
2616 2010-12-07 18:51:01 <ArtForz> sdk 2.2 flat out sucks
2617 2010-12-07 18:51:04 <midnightmagic> ah.
2618 2010-12-07 18:51:05 <midnightmagic> shoot.
2619 2010-12-07 18:51:55 <ArtForz> I'm heading towards python + C extension
2620 2010-12-07 18:52:03 <midnightmagic> damn, maybe that's why my distributed.net stuff was so all over the place..
2621 2010-12-07 18:52:08 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: 2.2 is also slower
2622 2010-12-07 18:52:23 <Diablo-D3> dnet uses gpus now?
2623 2010-12-07 18:52:25 <Diablo-D3> since when?
2624 2010-12-07 18:52:30 <midnightmagic> since a long, long time ago.
2625 2010-12-07 18:52:33 <Diablo-D3> hah
2626 2010-12-07 18:52:38 <Diablo-D3> I havent done dnet since like forever
2627 2010-12-07 18:52:40 <ArtForz> yeah, been quite a while
2628 2010-12-07 18:52:52 <bitanarchy> I can't imagine that we are all going to store the blockchain on our local drives when wall street is adopting bitcoin...
2629 2010-12-07 18:52:56 <Diablo-D3> I think they were still working on rc5-64 back then
2630 2010-12-07 18:53:01 <Diablo-D3> now its like rc5-9000
2631 2010-12-07 18:53:16 <midnightmagic> rc5-72 i think. :) too bad RSA labs tore down the contests.
2632 2010-12-07 18:53:31 <ArtForz> I wonder how many GPUs one would need nowadays to beat good old EFFs deep crack
2633 2010-12-07 18:53:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, on my client, when H == 0, I run the entire header from scratch into java's sha256
2634 2010-12-07 18:53:50 <midnightmagic> not many, probably.
2635 2010-12-07 18:53:56 <ArtForz> I do the same in C, more or less
2636 2010-12-07 18:54:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I check if G <= target AND if H still == 0
2637 2010-12-07 18:54:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: on xelister's 5970, his second gpu goes apeshit
2638 2010-12-07 18:54:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: its spewing complete shit
2639 2010-12-07 18:54:34 <ArtForz> mine only did that with xfire enabled
2640 2010-12-07 18:54:41 <Diablo-D3> yeah, and he says he has xfire off
2641 2010-12-07 18:55:06 <ArtForz> yeah, it's weird
2642 2010-12-07 18:55:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and m0's doesnt check if H == 0, and Im not even sure how m0 is reconstructing the hash
2643 2010-12-07 18:55:20 <Diablo-D3> Im pretty sure its not my miner, but I cant verify it
2644 2010-12-07 18:56:34 <ArtForz> hrrrm
2645 2010-12-07 18:57:26 <ArtForz> yeah, m0s doesnt check the returned nonce
2646 2010-12-07 18:57:31 cdecker has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2647 2010-12-07 18:57:46 <Diablo-D3> the only reason I check if H still == 0 is because of extra paranoia due to xelister
2648 2010-12-07 18:58:28 <theymos> bitanarchy: The target is approximated by max_target / difficult, where max_target is the maximum target (a very large number).
2649 2010-12-07 18:58:30 <ArtForz> I also check H==0, small backup to know if you're pushing OC too far
2650 2010-12-07 18:58:44 pr0wler has joined
2651 2010-12-07 18:58:59 <ArtForz> max_target is roughly 2**224 - 1
2652 2010-12-07 18:59:26 <theymos> It is exactly 3337321571246095014985518819479127172783474909736415373333364736.
2653 2010-12-07 18:59:39 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hrrrrrrm
2654 2010-12-07 18:59:40 <theymos> Oh, actually it's 26959535291011309493156476344723991336010898738574164086137773096960.
2655 2010-12-07 18:59:48 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if xelister's card is broken
2656 2010-12-07 18:59:52 <ArtForz> 26959535291011309493156476344723991336010898738574164086137773096960
2657 2010-12-07 18:59:57 <xelister> Diablo-D3: who knows
2658 2010-12-07 19:00:01 <xelister> btw
2659 2010-12-07 19:00:07 <ArtForz> I kinda doubt it
2660 2010-12-07 19:00:10 <xelister> Diablo-D3: it seems it generates tons of this errors
2661 2010-12-07 19:00:18 <xelister> only if card is under stress or something
2662 2010-12-07 19:00:19 <xelister> wtf
2663 2010-12-07 19:00:39 <xelister> awesome that you add time stamging to log :)
2664 2010-12-07 19:00:43 <xelister> this is so helpfull now:
2665 2010-12-07 19:00:55 <bitanarchy> Why is bitcoinexchange offline? It was the only website that accepts euros...
2666 2010-12-07 19:01:00 <xelister> Started at Dec 7, 2010 5:36:07 PM
2667 2010-12-07 19:01:01 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 6:59:04 PM, possible driver or hardware issue
2668 2010-12-07 19:01:03 <xelister> ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2) at 6:59:04 PM, possible driver or hardware issue
2669 2010-12-07 19:01:08 <xelister> <and 100+ such errors follow>
2670 2010-12-07 19:01:09 <ArtForz> I still can't believe my fixed 5970 is holding up
2671 2010-12-07 19:01:24 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2672 2010-12-07 19:01:28 <xelister> it goes crazy bonkersshit only after 1.5 hour of generatiing with no such errors. huh.
2673 2010-12-07 19:01:38 <xelister> perhaps this card takes overheating badly? but it's not even o.c.'d
2674 2010-12-07 19:01:41 <ArtForz> that sounds like a temp problem
2675 2010-12-07 19:01:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and you dont have any hashes that dont fail H ==0 after full check?
2676 2010-12-07 19:01:48 <ArtForz> whats the core temps after an hour or so?
2677 2010-12-07 19:01:53 <Diablo-D3> at stock speed
2678 2010-12-07 19:01:54 <ArtForz> nope
2679 2010-12-07 19:02:00 <Diablo-D3> well wtf.
2680 2010-12-07 19:02:16 <nelisky> bitanarchy: why don't you try to buy/sell euros on #bitcoin-otc then?
2681 2010-12-07 19:02:20 <ArtForz> I only get H != 0 when REALLY pushing the OC (within 10 MHz of the card locking up or so)
2682 2010-12-07 19:02:39 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but hes at stock speed
2683 2010-12-07 19:02:53 <xelister> 87.5 C is ok?
2684 2010-12-07 19:02:55 <albatross> Diablo-D3: also, it is fairly easy to modify and run m0mchil's client. i kinda gave up on yours when i realized i would have to modify source and recompile to get CPU support. maybe you can include a build script that will rebuild the jar file
2685 2010-12-07 19:03:03 <ArtForz> a bit on the hot side, but should be OK
2686 2010-12-07 19:03:10 <xelister> albatross: hm?
2687 2010-12-07 19:03:26 <albatross> xelister: ?
2688 2010-12-07 19:03:29 <xelister> albatross: building Diablo-D3's is actually easier. thats why I choose it.
2689 2010-12-07 19:03:42 <midnightmagic> switched to py-opencl rebuilt using ati-sdk v2.1, and the python instance is still consuming 100%.. i must be doing something wrongly.
2690 2010-12-07 19:03:55 <bitanarchy> nelisky: I was thinking of that. But I would like to know the reason why bitcoinexchange is down... is it overload, or was it taken down??
2691 2010-12-07 19:03:55 <Diablo-D3> albatross: a "build script"? all you do is run mvn package
2692 2010-12-07 19:04:09 <ArtForz> bitanarchy: did you set LD_LIBRARY path so it *uses* the sdk 2.1 libs?
2693 2010-12-07 19:04:19 <nelisky> bitanarchy: ah, that I don't know
2694 2010-12-07 19:04:20 <bitanarchy> Or maybe he is taking a skiing holiday
2695 2010-12-07 19:04:37 <midnightmagic> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/v/soft/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/lib python ./poclbm.py
2696 2010-12-07 19:04:48 <ArtForz> that should be ok
2697 2010-12-07 19:04:53 <Diablo-D3> fail
2698 2010-12-07 19:05:00 <Diablo-D3> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/v/soft/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/lib/x86_64
2699 2010-12-07 19:05:04 <midnightmagic> gah
2700 2010-12-07 19:05:06 <Diablo-D3> your path was incomplete
2701 2010-12-07 19:05:06 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: Are you talking to me?
2702 2010-12-07 19:05:15 <midnightmagic> lol, i realised it as soon as i posted it.
2703 2010-12-07 19:05:30 <ArtForz> hmmm
2704 2010-12-07 19:05:35 <midnightmagic> i wonder how it was picking it up..!
2705 2010-12-07 19:05:47 <ArtForz> probably got SDK2.2 libs somewhere in your system lib path
2706 2010-12-07 19:06:32 <Diablo-D3> god I cant wait for 2.3
2707 2010-12-07 19:06:38 <Diablo-D3> they better have not fucked it up
2708 2010-12-07 19:06:43 mtgox has joined
2709 2010-12-07 19:06:51 <ArtForz> btw, fun fact: running a miner compiled against SDK2.1 with SDK 2.2 libs and vice versa seems to work fine
2710 2010-12-07 19:07:16 <Diablo-D3> define "fine"
2711 2010-12-07 19:07:22 <ArtForz> it works
2712 2010-12-07 19:07:30 <Diablo-D3> well yes, but dont you still get 100% cpu bug?
2713 2010-12-07 19:07:34 <ArtForz> yep
2714 2010-12-07 19:07:46 <Diablo-D3> yeah, so thats kind of useless
2715 2010-12-07 19:07:49 <ArtForz> yep
2716 2010-12-07 19:08:04 <Diablo-D3> half the compiler is in the driver anyhow
2717 2010-12-07 19:08:09 <ArtForz> yeah
2718 2010-12-07 19:08:20 <Diablo-D3> the sdk just parses opencl and turns it into their internal IL format
2719 2010-12-07 19:08:27 <ArtForz> I think SDK only does OCL -> IL
2720 2010-12-07 19:08:32 <ArtForz> driver does IL -> shader ASM
2721 2010-12-07 19:08:35 <Diablo-D3> yup
2722 2010-12-07 19:08:49 <Diablo-D3> which is also why vectors are fixed on 4xxx now
2723 2010-12-07 19:09:08 <Diablo-D3> -v2 stopped being faster since I think 10.9
2724 2010-12-07 19:09:25 <ArtForz> btw, wonder when someone will write a DirectCompute miner
2725 2010-12-07 19:09:36 <Diablo-D3> why bother
2726 2010-12-07 19:09:42 <Diablo-D3> it'll work like mine does
2727 2010-12-07 19:09:46 <ArtForz> well, why did someone bother with CUDA?
2728 2010-12-07 19:09:48 <Diablo-D3> except 2x slower, and be written in C#
2729 2010-12-07 19:09:51 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
2730 2010-12-07 19:09:53 <Diablo-D3> because nvidia lied
2731 2010-12-07 19:10:20 <Diablo-D3> nvidia didnt tell anyone its a vendor lock-in tool, and that they'll still be in business in a few years
2732 2010-12-07 19:10:28 <nelisky> when I did cuda on my mac, it was certainly faster then opencl
2733 2010-12-07 19:10:39 <nelisky> and much, much simpler to write
2734 2010-12-07 19:10:46 <Diablo-D3> nelisky: because cuda on osx isnt written by apple, thats still nvidia
2735 2010-12-07 19:10:53 <Diablo-D3> osx's opencl impl was written by apple
2736 2010-12-07 19:11:03 <nelisky> makes sense
2737 2010-12-07 19:11:08 <ArtForz> yeah, which woudl be interesting if nvidia actually managed to build decent hardware
2738 2010-12-07 19:11:25 <Diablo-D3> nelisky: their opencl impl has gotten much better
2739 2010-12-07 19:11:27 <Diablo-D3> its just... bleh
2740 2010-12-07 19:11:31 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck actually uses osx anyhow
2741 2010-12-07 19:11:33 <xelister> ArtForz: what temp is ok for 5970
2742 2010-12-07 19:11:41 <xelister> Diablo-D3: faaaagz  >_>
2743 2010-12-07 19:11:43 <ArtForz> I try to keep mine <80°C
2744 2010-12-07 19:11:47 <nelisky> Diablo-D3: I'm going to assume you use windows :)
2745 2010-12-07 19:11:48 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I dont like shit going above 65c really
2746 2010-12-07 19:11:52 <nelisky> tssk, tssk
2747 2010-12-07 19:11:54 <Diablo-D3> nelisky: no, Linux
2748 2010-12-07 19:11:59 <xelister> Diablo-D3: look nelisky insulted you. beat him up
2749 2010-12-07 19:12:04 <xelister> or pay me 500 btc to do it
2750 2010-12-07 19:12:05 <nelisky> hehe
2751 2010-12-07 19:12:14 <ArtForz> 65°C? on a 5970? *maybe* with watercooling
2752 2010-12-07 19:12:14 <nelisky> I do linux AND osx
2753 2010-12-07 19:12:21 <xelister> Diablo-D3: two problems with your recent version (regressions imho)
2754 2010-12-07 19:12:31 <Diablo-D3> Ive used linux as my primary desktop OS for over a decade
2755 2010-12-07 19:12:38 <nelisky> actually osx is pretty close to linux, once beaten into submission, only with an actual working and consistent UI
2756 2010-12-07 19:12:41 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, its the lack of third party coolers
2757 2010-12-07 19:12:47 <xelister> Diablo-D3: it spams with the invalid hash.   add counter,  and aboe 10 show only each  if (0==(counter%100)) or so
2758 2010-12-07 19:12:49 <Diablo-D3> the only good one crushes the cards
2759 2010-12-07 19:12:59 <Diablo-D3> xelister: it SHOULD spam
2760 2010-12-07 19:13:03 <ArtForz> and it's VRM cooling sucks
2761 2010-12-07 19:13:07 <xelister> Diablo-D3: makes deubg harder
2762 2010-12-07 19:13:07 <ArtForz> *its
2763 2010-12-07 19:13:15 <xelister> Diablo-D3: also, now if card is bussy (i.e. i go to other virtual terminal etc) then it crashes with NULL exception etc
2764 2010-12-07 19:13:29 <xelister> Diablo-D3: so imho: put entire mian loop into try-catch and restart after such crash
2765 2010-12-07 19:13:31 <Diablo-D3> xelister: wow, your card is fucking broken
2766 2010-12-07 19:13:36 <ArtForz> no
2767 2010-12-07 19:13:36 <Diablo-D3> oh
2768 2010-12-07 19:13:37 <Diablo-D3> HUH
2769 2010-12-07 19:13:38 <xelister> no this is just reent version
2770 2010-12-07 19:13:42 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I wonder if your psu is fucked
2771 2010-12-07 19:13:49 <xelister> now I got very good psu
2772 2010-12-07 19:13:59 <ArtForz> switching do a different VT while X is active and the mienr is running crashes the box here, too
2773 2010-12-07 19:14:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: oh, really?
2774 2010-12-07 19:14:10 <ArtForz> yup
2775 2010-12-07 19:14:15 <Diablo-D3> I even hibernate with mine running and it wakes up fine
2776 2010-12-07 19:14:27 <xelister> previously when I go to other VT then it just 'locked up' (stoped mining) and then resumed
2777 2010-12-07 19:14:31 <xelister> now it quits usually
2778 2010-12-07 19:14:32 <Diablo-D3> xelister: what exception do you get when it hoarks?
2779 2010-12-07 19:14:32 <xelister> plz fix
2780 2010-12-07 19:14:40 <xelister> null
2781 2010-12-07 19:14:48 <glassresistor> i've had similar problems
2782 2010-12-07 19:14:49 <ArtForz> miner is running, hit ctrl-alt-f1, box is locked up hard
2783 2010-12-07 19:14:54 <Diablo-D3> did you revert the patch I asked you to try?
2784 2010-12-07 19:14:58 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: weird, doesnt happen for me
2785 2010-12-07 19:15:01 <glassresistor> flash kills gpus miners for me sometimes as well
2786 2010-12-07 19:15:05 <ArtForz> what driver/kernel ?
2787 2010-12-07 19:15:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: 10.11 and sdk 2.1
2788 2010-12-07 19:15:21 <Diablo-D3> with 2.6..... something
2789 2010-12-07 19:15:30 <Diablo-D3> 2.6.35
2790 2010-12-07 19:15:39 <ArtForz> that might be it, 10.10 + 2.6.32
2791 2010-12-07 19:15:51 <ArtForz> with 10.9 it would just stop mining until I switched back to X
2792 2010-12-07 19:15:52 <Diablo-D3> it didnt do it in 10.10 or 10.9 either
2793 2010-12-07 19:16:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: anyhow, pastebin the entire error
2794 2010-12-07 19:16:11 <ArtForz> maybe the newer drivers dont like old kernels or something
2795 2010-12-07 19:16:25 * xelister puts extra fans on this shit
2796 2010-12-07 19:17:11 <ArtForz> btw, are your GPU core temps similar or wildly different?
2797 2010-12-07 19:19:03 <ArtForz> so far I had one "dud" 5970
2798 2010-12-07 19:19:19 <Diablo-D3> define dud
2799 2010-12-07 19:19:23 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/LHKNf3Zx
2800 2010-12-07 19:19:39 <ArtForz> spot the odd one out
2801 2010-12-07 19:20:00 <Diablo-D3> hah
2802 2010-12-07 19:20:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, if you dont want it anymore, I can take it ;)
2803 2010-12-07 19:20:13 dwdollar1 has left ()
2804 2010-12-07 19:21:31 <ArtForz> RMAed it
2805 2010-12-07 19:22:28 <Diablo-D3> aww
2806 2010-12-07 19:23:29 <ArtForz> gtx570 release on /.
2807 2010-12-07 19:25:51 <midnightmagic> can't seem to .. stop the 100% cpu.
2808 2010-12-07 19:26:08 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you're not using 2.1.
2809 2010-12-07 19:26:25 <nanotube> ArtForz: please see my pm. :)
2810 2010-12-07 19:26:28 <Diablo-D3> I run export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/diablo/code/ati-stream/ati-stream-sdk-v2.2-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
2811 2010-12-07 19:26:34 <Diablo-D3> and then all my shit afterwards uses that
2812 2010-12-07 19:26:37 <Diablo-D3> s/2.2/2.1/
2813 2010-12-07 19:28:14 <midnightmagic> ... does yours spike to 100% for short periods, then back down to 89, 84, etc? (does this mean I've "solved" it?)
2814 2010-12-07 19:28:28 <ArtForz> nanotube: reading
2815 2010-12-07 19:28:40 <nanotube> cool
2816 2010-12-07 19:29:21 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: it'll spike 100% for 15 seconds then cut to nothing
2817 2010-12-07 19:29:24 <Diablo-D3> actually 15/2
2818 2010-12-07 19:29:48 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt sleep for better early loop length calibration
2819 2010-12-07 19:30:36 <midnightmagic> oh. there we go. I just had to restart all of them and not just fiddle around with just one..
2820 2010-12-07 19:31:24 <midnightmagic> YEAH! 300M per GPU now!! aticonfig --odgt shows a good, high temp, and aticonfig --odgc shows 90% utilization spikes.
2821 2010-12-07 19:31:57 <midnightmagic> so.. I guess if someone else comes in here and I'm not here to answer, the answer is to not only go to sdk v2.1, but also make sure that ALL v2.2 sdk programs are stopped.
2822 2010-12-07 19:32:08 <midnightmagic> holy crap look it that..
2823 2010-12-07 19:32:17 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: only 90%?
2824 2010-12-07 19:32:19 <Diablo-D3> it should be higher
2825 2010-12-07 19:32:30 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: btw, --odgc's utilization meter is kind of useless
2826 2010-12-07 19:32:34 <midnightmagic> i have cooling issues in this case, no PCI-e risers.
2827 2010-12-07 19:32:36 <Diablo-D3> it only measures the gpu being in use
2828 2010-12-07 19:32:43 <Diablo-D3> not that the software is efficient
2829 2010-12-07 19:33:05 samfisher has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
2830 2010-12-07 19:33:58 <midnightmagic> it's a calc of total spu utilization ratio isn't it?
2831 2010-12-07 19:34:06 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: "no"
2832 2010-12-07 19:34:11 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: only that its running
2833 2010-12-07 19:34:21 <ArtForz> nanotube: it looks workable
2834 2010-12-07 19:34:35 <Diablo-D3> I could write an app that uses double precision floats, and get 1/4th the total performance, and still score >95%
2835 2010-12-07 19:34:42 <ArtForz> yep, a kernel of NOPs still causes 99% utilization
2836 2010-12-07 19:34:51 <Diablo-D3> or that
2837 2010-12-07 19:35:03 <nanotube> ArtForz: cool. :)
2838 2010-12-07 19:35:04 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: >95% means the gpu is always running
2839 2010-12-07 19:35:56 lolcat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2840 2010-12-07 19:38:44 gates_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2841 2010-12-07 19:41:25 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you're using my miner? what does it say for speed
2842 2010-12-07 19:52:59 dwdollar1 has joined
2843 2010-12-07 19:53:52 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: I'm using poclbm.py now that it's working properly. :)
2844 2010-12-07 19:55:42 RazielZ has quit ()
2845 2010-12-07 19:57:10 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 13000000
2846 2010-12-07 19:57:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 13000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 44 minutes and 28 seconds
2847 2010-12-07 19:57:54 <ArtForz> 13Ghps?
2848 2010-12-07 19:58:52 <ArtForz> thats what? 42 5870s ?
2849 2010-12-07 19:59:03 <midnightmagic> Yeah I'm telling a friend about you.. Sorry. :)
2850 2010-12-07 19:59:22 <midnightmagic> If you would prefer, I'll clam up. :)
2851 2010-12-07 19:59:29 <ArtForz> cool
2852 2010-12-07 19:59:41 <ArtForz> get pics :)
2853 2010-12-07 19:59:52 <midnightmagic> I'm showing them the stack of 5 you posted yesterday.
2854 2010-12-07 20:01:08 ciuciu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2855 2010-12-07 20:01:16 gavinandresen has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2856 2010-12-07 20:03:08 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: if you're using mine on 2.1, you need -a
2857 2010-12-07 20:04:51 BostX has joined
2858 2010-12-07 20:04:54 <BostX> hi all
2859 2010-12-07 20:05:23 <nanotube> o/
2860 2010-12-07 20:05:33 Hogofwar has joined
2861 2010-12-07 20:05:36 <BostX> Im trying to compile BC and getting error:  headers.h:30: fatal error: wx/wx.h: No such file or directory
2862 2010-12-07 20:05:36 <Hogofwar> hey
2863 2010-12-07 20:05:53 <Hogofwar> follow the instructions
2864 2010-12-07 20:06:08 <nanotube> seems like you are missing wxwidgets
2865 2010-12-07 20:06:14 <Hogofwar> in svn-build or something
2866 2010-12-07 20:06:15 <BostX> Im using ubuntu so I installed where only wx2.8-headers  is available
2867 2010-12-07 20:06:22 <Hogofwar> you need 2.9
2868 2010-12-07 20:06:40 <BostX> Hogofwar, no way how to compile it with 2.8?
2869 2010-12-07 20:07:32 <Hogofwar> not a far as i know
2870 2010-12-07 20:07:39 * BostX :(
2871 2010-12-07 20:07:44 <Hogofwar> i don't even use linux i just read the build-svn once
2872 2010-12-07 20:07:47 <nanotube> BostX: if you don't need a gui, you can compile bitcoind. that is a lot easier.
2873 2010-12-07 20:07:48 <Hogofwar>  :P
2874 2010-12-07 20:08:42 <BostX> nanotube, ok, I'll try...
2875 2010-12-07 20:09:49 <BostX> nanotube, make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
2876 2010-12-07 20:09:59 <BostX> nanotube, headers.h:43: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory
2877 2010-12-07 20:10:19 <nanotube> BostX: you need berkeleydb
2878 2010-12-07 20:10:47 <BostX> nanotube, Im compiling the bitcoin-git
2879 2010-12-07 20:11:05 <nanotube> BostX: i posted a howto on the forum, how to compile bitcoind on ubuntu. which libraries are needed, etc.
2880 2010-12-07 20:11:20 <BostX> nanotube, I installed that already, package libdb-dev
2881 2010-12-07 20:11:31 <BostX> nanotube, ah... ok leme see
2882 2010-12-07 20:11:39 * BostX sorry
2883 2010-12-07 20:12:13 <nanotube> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1315.0
2884 2010-12-07 20:12:30 <nanotube> BostX: you need also the cpp bindings
2885 2010-12-07 20:12:36 <Hogofwar> http://www.99chan.in/f/src/heap_of_trouble.swf
2886 2010-12-07 20:14:30 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 800000
2887 2010-12-07 20:14:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 12 hours, 2 minutes, and 49 seconds
2888 2010-12-07 20:15:16 <midnightmagic> well.. you guys helped me halve my time. so, thank you! hopefully someday soon I'll have solved the heating issue and I can spool up card #3.
2889 2010-12-07 20:15:43 <LobsterMan> i cleaned out my computer last night when i put my old turtle beach sound card in, it's running a lot cooler now :]
2890 2010-12-07 20:15:43 <LobsterMan> the gpus are like 6-7°C cooler under load too
2891 2010-12-07 20:18:19 <Hogofwar> i need to find a compressed air can somewhere
2892 2010-12-07 20:18:39 <LobsterMan> i used like 2 of those dusting my computer out
2893 2010-12-07 20:18:54 <LobsterMan> also got slightly high on the fumes or whatever they put in that shit to deter abuse <_<
2894 2010-12-07 20:18:55 <LobsterMan> smells terrible
2895 2010-12-07 20:19:01 <nanotube> hah
2896 2010-12-07 20:20:30 <midnightmagic> you can use a tire, and get free compressed air from the local gas station. just get one of those spare tires that honda drivers have in their trunks.
2897 2010-12-07 20:20:48 <midnightmagic> and a little valve thingie, and hook it up to the tire.
2898 2010-12-07 20:20:52 <LobsterMan> lol
2899 2010-12-07 20:21:16 <LobsterMan> this is assuming you one has a spare tire lying around....
2900 2010-12-07 20:21:34 <midnightmagic> they're like $20. :-)
2901 2010-12-07 20:22:13 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2902 2010-12-07 20:23:17 <BostX> gribble, uuuu so it seems like if my generation speed si 2450khps then for 1bc I need ....
2903 2010-12-07 20:23:27 <BostX> gribble, .... ages
2904 2010-12-07 20:24:02 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 104000
2905 2010-12-07 20:24:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 104000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 20 hours, 40 minutes, and 11 seconds
2906 2010-12-07 20:24:02 StrangeCharm has joined
2907 2010-12-07 20:24:43 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
2908 2010-12-07 20:24:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96278 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 489 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11974.52187247
2909 2010-12-07 20:25:50 <LobsterMan> diff is going up a lot
2910 2010-12-07 20:25:51 <LobsterMan> :O
2911 2010-12-07 20:25:55 <LobsterMan> i remember when it was 1200
2912 2010-12-07 20:26:12 <LobsterMan> that was before i had a working gpu miner to use though :[
2913 2010-12-07 20:26:46 <ArtForz> I remember when it was 23.5 ;)
2914 2010-12-07 20:27:42 <LobsterMan> haha
2915 2010-12-07 20:29:12 <bitanarchy> the total hash rate in the network goes up. But I guess the total number of people who are into generating blocks is probably going down...
2916 2010-12-07 20:29:50 <LobsterMan> i think the number of people running miners is going up
2917 2010-12-07 20:30:03 <bitanarchy> LobsterMan: how do you know?
2918 2010-12-07 20:30:10 <LobsterMan> conjecture
2919 2010-12-07 20:30:28 <LobsterMan> but the diff seems to be increasing disproportionately to just the increase in size of ArtForz's gpu farm
2920 2010-12-07 20:30:29 <LobsterMan> :P
2921 2010-12-07 20:30:39 <bitanarchy> by now people know that they need a gpu miner...
2922 2010-12-07 20:30:47 <ArtForz> actually it's increasing pretty much proportionally
2923 2010-12-07 20:31:05 <LobsterMan> what is your gross hashrate up to now ArtForz?
2924 2010-12-07 20:31:19 <ArtForz> currently 16Gh/s
2925 2010-12-07 20:31:24 * LobsterMan faints
2926 2010-12-07 20:31:50 * BostX ugh ugh
2927 2010-12-07 20:31:55 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: what does a 5770 do?
2928 2010-12-07 20:32:00 <ArtForz> 150Mh/s
2929 2010-12-07 20:32:30 <LobsterMan> ArtForz is going to make a million dollars off bitcoins :P
2930 2010-12-07 20:32:51 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: So you have a farm with more than a 100 gpu's?
2931 2010-12-07 20:32:55 <ArtForz> nope
2932 2010-12-07 20:33:04 <ArtForz> 24 5970s and a bunch of 5770s
2933 2010-12-07 20:33:14 echelon has joined
2934 2010-12-07 20:33:18 <ArtForz> another 12 5970s coming in
2935 2010-12-07 20:33:47 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 16000000
2936 2010-12-07 20:33:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 36 minutes and 8 seconds
2937 2010-12-07 20:33:50 <nanotube> hehe nice
2938 2010-12-07 20:33:58 <LobsterMan> do you get bulk discounts for ordering so many parts?
2939 2010-12-07 20:33:58 <BostX> btw guys dont u think like u r generating bcs too fast... I mean the amount of $ in the system is pretty constant
2940 2010-12-07 20:34:17 <ArtForz> for the GPUs, nope
2941 2010-12-07 20:34:20 <BostX> about 1 000 000 but the amount of coins goes up much faster
2942 2010-12-07 20:34:20 <nanotube> current total network hash rate is like 100ghash right? so you currently have about 16% of the network's power?
2943 2010-12-07 20:34:30 <ArtForz> yep
2944 2010-12-07 20:35:18 <nanotube> BostX: difficulty adjusts based on total network power. so it's not like total network bitcoin output is much affected. only somewhat, inasmuch as there's hysteresis between new generation capacity coming on, and difficulty adjusting.
2945 2010-12-07 20:35:26 <bitanarchy> ArtForz knows that he cannot approch 50% or everybody will sell their bitcoins...
2946 2010-12-07 20:35:35 <ArtForz> pretty much
2947 2010-12-07 20:35:42 <echelon> how come i'm listed as not accepting IP payments -_-
2948 2010-12-07 20:35:50 <echelon> can someone change it.. https://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
2949 2010-12-07 20:35:56 <ArtForz> I've stayed at 15-25% of total since diff was < 200
2950 2010-12-07 20:36:08 darrob has joined
2951 2010-12-07 20:36:24 <theymos> echelon: I tested your node and you weren't. Are you running with -allowreceivebyip?
2952 2010-12-07 20:36:47 <BostX> nanotube, yea... u r perfectly right... but the point is IMO it would be better to relate the difficulty to the amount of (let's say) $ in the system
2953 2010-12-07 20:36:48 <echelon> i need to specify it?
2954 2010-12-07 20:37:02 <Hogofwar> taking aaaaaaaagggggeeeeeeeessssss to install ubuntu
2955 2010-12-07 20:37:25 <theymos> echelon: You do in newer versions of Bitcoin. The change was made shortly after fallback_nodes was created.
2956 2010-12-07 20:37:27 <nanotube> echelon: yes, by default no ip txns allowed. because they're insecure and generally a bad idea.
2957 2010-12-07 20:37:45 <LobsterMan> so when a transaction fee is assessed, do the nodes who allow the transactions get to keep any portion of that fee?
2958 2010-12-07 20:38:04 <nanotube> BostX: not possible - the network can know how much processing power there is, by the rate of block creation. there's no way to measure how much $ there is.
2959 2010-12-07 20:38:19 <nanotube> LobsterMan: no, only the block generators keep fees.
2960 2010-12-07 20:38:26 <echelon> oh ok
2961 2010-12-07 20:38:27 <TheAncientGoat> Visa has announced them dropping wikileaks payments as well
2962 2010-12-07 20:38:30 <echelon> well nvm then
2963 2010-12-07 20:38:42 <nanotube> TheAncientGoat: oh wow... guess they'll end up having to rely on cash in the mail.
2964 2010-12-07 20:38:43 <LobsterMan> people need to start donating to them with bitcoins
2965 2010-12-07 20:38:51 <LobsterMan> i sent some btc to the eff not too long ago
2966 2010-12-07 20:39:14 <TheAncientGoat> wl really needs to get their asses off of twitter too, before they close that account. Identi.ca / statusnet up!
2967 2010-12-07 20:41:05 <BostX> nanotube, well ... Im avare of that... again, the problem is people dont have much trust in the BCs if the amount of $/euro/whatever stays constant and the amount of BCs goes up like mad
2968 2010-12-07 20:41:43 <nanotube> BostX: such is life. things will stabilize eventually.
2969 2010-12-07 20:42:05 <ArtForz> like mad? it's only about 10kbtc/day
2970 2010-12-07 20:43:13 <BostX> nanotube, not sure about that... I see the danger, instead of stability BC simply won't reach the critical mass
2971 2010-12-07 20:43:17 * BostX :(
2972 2010-12-07 20:43:36 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: So you own at least 15% of all bitcoins, which is $150 000
2973 2010-12-07 20:43:36 <nanotube> ;;bc,totalbc
2974 2010-12-07 20:43:37 <gribble> 4814000.00000000
2975 2010-12-07 20:43:56 <nanotube> bitanarchy: he sells some (most). so he doesn't actually own 15%
2976 2010-12-07 20:44:12 <nanotube> BostX: total bc in existence, is 4.8 million. every 2 weeks, 10k btc is created.
2977 2010-12-07 20:44:25 <nanotube> ;;math calc 10000/4800000
2978 2010-12-07 20:44:25 <gribble> 0.00208333333333
2979 2010-12-07 20:44:38 <nanotube> BostX: so every two weeks, supply of bitcoins increases by only 0.2%
2980 2010-12-07 20:45:18 Lyspooner has joined
2981 2010-12-07 20:45:27 <nanotube> ;;math calc .002*26
2982 2010-12-07 20:45:27 <gribble> 0.052
2983 2010-12-07 20:45:38 <BostX> nanotube, well 0.2 * 28 (weeks) = 5.6% inflation per year
2984 2010-12-07 20:45:38 <nanotube> BostX: that's only a 5.2% inflation rate
2985 2010-12-07 20:45:53 <nanotube> BostX: 52/2 is 26. but yes :)
2986 2010-12-07 20:46:10 <BostX> nanotube, :)
2987 2010-12-07 20:46:35 <nanotube> BostX: but anyway... if we can grow demand for bitcoins by more than 5.2% per year... then value of bitcoins will actually increase.
2988 2010-12-07 20:47:15 <nanotube> also, in the future, rate of bitcoin creation will be reduced. and base of existing bitcoins will increase. so inflation rate will go down
2989 2010-12-07 20:47:18 <BostX> nanotube, I mean if u admit u have a 5 % inflation in the system build to eliminate the inflation... well... I dunno
2990 2010-12-07 20:47:25 <nanotube> for now the inflationary stage is just to distribute the coinage.
2991 2010-12-07 20:48:09 <Lyspooner> nanotube: i've asked tcatm to look at bitcoin client downloads from sourceforge vs price of bitcoin
2992 2010-12-07 20:48:28 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2993 2010-12-07 20:48:35 <nanotube> Lyspooner: hehe interesting.
2994 2010-12-07 20:49:51 <Lyspooner> demand for bitcoins can be negative, too, don't forget
2995 2010-12-07 20:50:40 <nanotube> Lyspooner: negative demand means, people will pay /you/ to get rid of bitcoins. this can never be the case,since getting rid of them is free, justdelete wallet.
2996 2010-12-07 20:50:45 <Lyspooner> 5.2 sounds easy at first, but that's asking for *net* demand to be up 5.2.
2997 2010-12-07 20:50:53 <nanotube> the rate of change of demand, though, can be negative :)
2998 2010-12-07 20:51:14 <nanotube> Lyspooner: yes... well, that's the trouble with trying to bootstrap a new currency. :)
2999 2010-12-07 20:51:34 <nanotube> it takes some marketing by the community, to get people interested, and offer goods/services.
3000 2010-12-07 20:53:57 <appamatto> Has the difficulty decreased before?
3001 2010-12-07 20:54:04 <BostX> Lyspooner, nanotube I see the inflation and danger of loosing wallet as  2 important problems
3002 2010-12-07 20:54:24 <nanotube> appamatto: no. one time it was pretty close, though. :)
3003 2010-12-07 20:54:33 <nanotube> around the 1300s
3004 2010-12-07 20:54:54 <Lyspooner> BostX: if bitcoin has any problems, i wouldn't call inflation one of them
3005 2010-12-07 20:55:24 <appamatto> given that the inflation is well known and fixed in advance, it should be 'priced in' to the current value
3006 2010-12-07 20:55:41 <BostX> Lyspooner, why?
3007 2010-12-07 20:55:49 <appamatto> this would be true even for a fixed perma-inflation
3008 2010-12-07 20:56:01 <Kiba> I suspect the currenct price drop to be that demand for bitcoin is now slower than the growth of the bitcoin economy
3009 2010-12-07 20:56:26 <appamatto> btw, how far has the price dropped? *eyes lighting up*
3010 2010-12-07 20:56:41 <LobsterMan> it's back up to around 24¢
3011 2010-12-07 20:56:45 <LobsterMan> was down to like 17 earlier today
3012 2010-12-07 20:57:04 <Kiba> functulate like crazy
3013 2010-12-07 20:57:11 joey has left ("Off to bother someone else")
3014 2010-12-07 20:57:15 <tcatm> appamatto: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg5zvztgSzm1g10zm2g25
3015 2010-12-07 20:57:16 <BostX> appamatto, Lyspooner it seems like in the future we gonna have few people owning huge amount of BCs
3016 2010-12-07 20:57:26 <BostX> while none would be interested in them...
3017 2010-12-07 20:57:42 <BostX> too much unequality in the distribution
3018 2010-12-07 20:57:52 <BostX> noone
3019 2010-12-07 20:58:02 <Kiba> BostX: it's the incentive of those rich bitcoiners to invest in the economy if they want their bitcoin to have any value.
3020 2010-12-07 20:58:14 <Kiba> if none are interested, the price will collapse
3021 2010-12-07 20:58:18 <Kiba> and they will be worthless
3022 2010-12-07 20:58:25 <LobsterMan> wow it really is amazing how much cooler my box runs since i dusted it all out
3023 2010-12-07 20:58:45 <LobsterMan> it's like 8°C less on average
3024 2010-12-07 20:58:51 <LobsterMan> under full gpu load
3025 2010-12-07 20:59:15 <LobsterMan> my gpu cores are running at 79 vs like 86-88 before i dusted
3026 2010-12-07 20:59:16 <LobsterMan> lol
3027 2010-12-07 20:59:36 ColonelPanic2 has joined
3028 2010-12-07 20:59:41 <Lyspooner> is there any other byproduct besides heat from gpus
3029 2010-12-07 20:59:49 <BostX> Kiba, _exactly_ that! I mean BC is going to loose it's value instead of keeping it
3030 2010-12-07 20:59:51 <Lyspooner> like gunk or smudge
3031 2010-12-07 21:00:24 <LobsterMan> increased airflow potentially = increased dust accumulation?
3032 2010-12-07 21:00:27 <ArtForz> GPU coolers are dust magnets
3033 2010-12-07 21:00:34 <BostX> Kiba, now imagine people invested let's say 1000 $ ending up with 100 $ after a couple of years
3034 2010-12-07 21:00:35 <appamatto> If rich bitcoiners are sitting on their coins that will just raise the value of each coin
3035 2010-12-07 21:00:40 <ArtForz> high airflow = lots of dust coming by, high temps = lots of dust baking on
3036 2010-12-07 21:00:46 <appamatto> One of them will eventually sell for selfish reasons
3037 2010-12-07 21:00:48 <theymos> appamatto: The difficulty did go down once: from 12.8 to 11.8.
3038 2010-12-07 21:00:53 <Kiba> ArtForz: that's true I guess.
3039 2010-12-07 21:00:59 <appamatto> theymos, when was that?
3040 2010-12-07 21:00:59 <Kiba> money is not an end to itself
3041 2010-12-07 21:01:02 <LobsterMan> mine was surpsinginly not too bad, but i have "screens" on my air inflow vents on my case so they are what gets really caked up with dust
3042 2010-12-07 21:01:08 <LobsterMan> most of the internals are more or less spared
3043 2010-12-07 21:01:09 <Kiba> it is used to buy stuff that rich and poor bitcoiners like
3044 2010-12-07 21:01:21 <ArtForz> it's a problem in industrial electronics as well
3045 2010-12-07 21:01:41 <ArtForz> dust bakes into a hard crust on heatsinks
3046 2010-12-07 21:01:48 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3047 2010-12-07 21:01:55 <Kiba> air are dirty, eh?
3048 2010-12-07 21:01:58 <theymos> appamatto: http://blockexplorer.com/b/54432 , http://blockexplorer.com/b/56448
3049 2010-12-07 21:02:12 <LobsterMan> ive got a huge 220mm i think fan on the front of my case, i need to de-dust (lol counter-strike pun) it's fan cover like once a month to maintain adequate airflow
3050 2010-12-07 21:02:25 <LobsterMan> its
3051 2010-12-07 21:02:25 <ArtForz> even with intake filters it still accumulates
3052 2010-12-07 21:02:25 <LobsterMan> *
3053 2010-12-07 21:02:36 <LobsterMan> yeah but in my experience intake filters help A LOT
3054 2010-12-07 21:02:41 <ArtForz> completely closed cooling channels are very "fun" to clean
3055 2010-12-07 21:02:47 <LobsterMan> lol...
3056 2010-12-07 21:02:55 <Lyspooner> anyone use gavin's clearing coin yet?
3057 2010-12-07 21:03:00 darrob has joined
3058 2010-12-07 21:03:16 <BostX> Lyspooner, clearing coin? what is it?
3059 2010-12-07 21:03:37 * LobsterMan ventures afk.....
3060 2010-12-07 21:04:05 <echelon> theymos, ok added allowreceivebyip=1 to bitcoin.conf :)
3061 2010-12-07 21:04:31 kisom_dev has joined
3062 2010-12-07 21:04:36 <ArtForz> only problem is intake filters severely increase airflow resistance
3063 2010-12-07 21:05:25 <theymos> echelon: I changed it.
3064 2010-12-07 21:05:31 ColonelPanic2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3065 2010-12-07 21:05:33 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
3066 2010-12-07 21:05:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96282 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 485 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 34 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11964.24783691
3067 2010-12-07 21:05:38 ColonelPanic1 has joined
3068 2010-12-07 21:05:44 <echelon> thanks :)
3069 2010-12-07 21:05:44 <ArtForz> a simple screen doesnt, but then a simple screen also doesnt catch small dust particles
3070 2010-12-07 21:05:48 <Lyspooner> BostX: https://clearcoin.appspot.com/
3071 2010-12-07 21:06:23 gavinandresen has joined
3072 2010-12-07 21:06:52 <Lyspooner> theymos, we should do our dec31 bet via gavin's new clearcoin
3073 2010-12-07 21:07:40 <theymos> Lyspooner: You want to pay the 1% fee?
3074 2010-12-07 21:08:51 <Lyspooner> what's his threshold?
3075 2010-12-07 21:09:27 <theymos> "It is completely free if you are sending less than 100 bitcoins. Larger transactions cost 1% of the amount greater than 100 BTC."
3076 2010-12-07 21:10:05 <Lyspooner> 50 bitcoins will be in escrow, and the "delivered goods" will be the payment of the resolution of the bet, so i think it's a candidate
3077 2010-12-07 21:10:35 <appamatto> hmm, what if the guy never releases the escrow?
3078 2010-12-07 21:10:48 <jchysk> gotta build a reputation I guess
3079 2010-12-07 21:10:49 <nelisky> gavinandresen: regarding theymos and Lyspooner's bet, do you allow reverting a payment if both parties agree?
3080 2010-12-07 21:11:39 <nanotube> Lyspooner: i've used it successfuly just today. :)
3081 2010-12-07 21:11:53 <Kiba> if both party say yes, then it get exchanged, automatically?
3082 2010-12-07 21:12:20 <Lyspooner> i want to escrow some bitcoins to myself in exchange for 20 pushups
3083 2010-12-07 21:12:21 lfm has joined
3084 2010-12-07 21:12:23 <nanotube> jchysk: yea, there's a web of trust on #bitcoin-otc just for that. :)
3085 2010-12-07 21:12:24 <midnightmagic> okay; and I apologise for my seriously nooby noobiness. when one of the miners says, "found XXX, 07/12/2010" does that mean it's a candidate or i should shortly have bitcoins?
3086 2010-12-07 21:12:42 <nelisky> Kiba: yes, I was thinking one puts 10 another 100 (on a 1:10) and then they not only allow to pay but also decide who gets paid
3087 2010-12-07 21:12:52 <nanotube> Lyspooner: haha you need to somehow prevent cheating with yourself.
3088 2010-12-07 21:12:56 <nelisky> as I understood it the escrow is one way only right now
3089 2010-12-07 21:13:07 <Kiba> running time!
3090 2010-12-07 21:13:22 <TheAncientGoat> Kiba: Btw, why do you use twitter instead of identica?
3091 2010-12-07 21:13:27 <Kiba> nanotube: simple, Post a youtube video as proof
3092 2010-12-07 21:13:35 <Kiba> TheAncientGoat: I am an anarchist?
3093 2010-12-07 21:13:55 <TheAncientGoat> And, what does that have to do with anything?
3094 2010-12-07 21:14:13 <TheAncientGoat> Isn't statusnet like faaaar more applicable to that philosophy?
3095 2010-12-07 21:14:15 <Kiba> I get to use whatever service I want
3096 2010-12-07 21:14:16 <theymos> Lyspooner: It doesn't make sense. Either I get the BTC or you get the BTC as a result of the bet, but ClearCoin doesn't support two-way choices like that.
3097 2010-12-07 21:14:20 <nanotube> Kiba: identica is distributed, and open sourcee.
3098 2010-12-07 21:14:41 ColonelPanic2 has joined
3099 2010-12-07 21:15:25 <BostX> guys, is there a way I can get my receiving address from the bitcoind? I cannot find the proper param
3100 2010-12-07 21:16:26 <Lyspooner> theymos: hmm
3101 2010-12-07 21:18:03 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3102 2010-12-07 21:18:21 <gavinandresen> nelisky: I came to this conversation late...  what's the bet scenario?  Two people put money in a pool, and one of them gets it, or both get refunded?
3103 2010-12-07 21:19:14 <nelisky> gavinandresen: yeah, that's about it. So t and l have a bet, one for 10 other for 100. One will win all
3104 2010-12-07 21:19:36 <nelisky> both put coins in escrow, and then both agree on who gets paid
3105 2010-12-07 21:19:37 ColonelPanic1 has joined
3106 2010-12-07 21:19:44 <gavinandresen> nelisky: And is there a third party you trust who'll decide who wins?
3107 2010-12-07 21:19:45 <nanotube> nelisky: and if they can't agree?
3108 2010-12-07 21:20:06 <nelisky> nanotube: one year later coins are refunded
3109 2010-12-07 21:20:21 <gavinandresen> (if there is a third party, then they could own the two escrow accounts, and just promise not to refund to themselves)
3110 2010-12-07 21:20:29 <nelisky> gavinandresen: I'd say they have the option of deciding who get s the coins, not the 3rd party
3111 2010-12-07 21:20:42 <nelisky> they just need to make the same choice for the payment to be triggered
3112 2010-12-07 21:21:11 <nelisky> like, two separate 'I agree' buttons, one for 'pay t' other 'pay l'
3113 2010-12-07 21:21:12 ColonelPanic2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3114 2010-12-07 21:21:33 <nelisky> if parties agree on different sides, no agreement is reached, defaults
3115 2010-12-07 21:21:52 <nelisky> you could even have it scale to N parties, not just 2
3116 2010-12-07 21:22:33 <nelisky> or pools, with multiple recipients, pro-rated, but now you have a betting site, not an escrow, and I have already created one of those :)
3117 2010-12-07 21:22:56 <nelisky> although...
3118 2010-12-07 21:23:21 <nelisky> hmmm, if you would provide an API for the betting site to use your service for bet placement
3119 2010-12-07 21:23:51 <nelisky> nah, that would just make things more complicated
3120 2010-12-07 21:24:21 <gavinandresen> nelisky: neat idea; I'll add that to the (getting longer by the minute!) list of possible future features.....
3121 2010-12-07 21:24:22 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3122 2010-12-07 21:27:22 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3123 2010-12-07 21:27:34 <Lyspooner> what's brucewagner up to lately?
3124 2010-12-07 21:27:41 <Lyspooner> anyone have the link to his mp3?
3125 2010-12-07 21:27:55 <Lyspooner> is it worth it?
3126 2010-12-07 21:28:03 ColonelPanic1 has joined
3127 2010-12-07 21:30:15 <Hogofwar> Please update bitcoin to 0.3.18 :d
3128 2010-12-07 21:30:18 <Hogofwar> :D
3129 2010-12-07 21:30:32 <Hogofwar> i really would like the account features
3130 2010-12-07 21:33:37 <jchysk> is there a way I can notify myself of received bitcoins and the receiving address?
3131 2010-12-07 21:33:55 <jchysk> like through an email
3132 2010-12-07 21:35:31 <BostX> jchysk, seems like there isnt any ...
3133 2010-12-07 21:36:27 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,help
3134 2010-12-07 21:36:27 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
3135 2010-12-07 21:36:38 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,timetonext
3136 2010-12-07 21:36:41 <gribble> 2 days, 6 hours, and 13 seconds
3137 2010-12-07 21:36:44 <[Noodles]> Lyspooner: found the mp3?
3138 2010-12-07 21:36:45 <jchysk> guess I can't do it through the client
3139 2010-12-07 21:36:56 <Lyspooner> [Noodles] no
3140 2010-12-07 21:36:59 <jchysk> if I knew how mybitcoin worked I could do it
3141 2010-12-07 21:37:02 <[Noodles]> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1945.msg26326#msg26326
3142 2010-12-07 21:37:15 <Lyspooner> sweet
3143 2010-12-07 21:37:31 <[Noodles]> or direct-dropbox-link http://goo.gl/eB6Sd
3144 2010-12-07 21:38:01 <theymos> jchysk: MyBitcoin is pretty simple: it just uses bitcoind along with a database of account balances.
3145 2010-12-07 21:38:11 <[Noodles]> i think he did good promo, although he wasnt 100% correct all the time
3146 2010-12-07 21:39:17 gavinandresen has left ()
3147 2010-12-07 21:39:49 gavinandresen has joined
3148 2010-12-07 21:40:08 <jchysk> ah, awesome, thanks [Noodles]
3149 2010-12-07 21:40:38 <[Noodles]> credits goto bruce, not me ^.~
3150 2010-12-07 21:41:02 <jchysk> oh
3151 2010-12-07 21:41:07 <jchysk> thanks theymos
3152 2010-12-07 21:42:59 pere has joined
3153 2010-12-07 21:43:03 pr0wler has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3154 2010-12-07 21:43:13 <anarchyx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czoww2l1xdw   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stsRfx5-3EQ   we need bitcoins
3155 2010-12-07 21:43:36 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3156 2010-12-07 21:43:58 Hogofwar has left ()
3157 2010-12-07 21:44:00 gavinandresen has joined
3158 2010-12-07 21:45:33 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3159 2010-12-07 21:45:57 <pere> ref <URL: http://bugs.debian.org/578157 >, is it supposed to be possible to build the source without the GUI?  I tried but the compile failed.
3160 2010-12-07 21:46:00 pr0wler has joined
3161 2010-12-07 21:49:12 * Kiba is a very patient man
3162 2010-12-07 21:49:22 <Kiba> err
3163 2010-12-07 21:49:24 <Kiba> impatient man
3164 2010-12-07 21:49:37 <BostX> pere, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1315.0
3165 2010-12-07 21:50:14 <BostX> pere, I just did the build, besides see build-unix.txt
3166 2010-12-07 21:50:33 forrestv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3167 2010-12-07 21:50:37 <echelon> lhkz56zqrjo3jsmp.onion:8333 appears to be down
3168 2010-12-07 21:52:21 <pere> BostX: I'm not talking about building bitcoind, but bitcoin without -DGUI.
3169 2010-12-07 21:54:01 <gavinandresen> pere: No, that doesn't work.
3170 2010-12-07 21:54:14 <gavinandresen> (isn't supposed to work)
3171 2010-12-07 21:54:30 <pere> no way to only get a command line client?
3172 2010-12-07 21:55:03 <gavinandresen> bitcoind IS the command-line client
3173 2010-12-07 21:55:15 <pere> ah, my mistake.  thank you.
3174 2010-12-07 21:57:00 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3175 2010-12-07 21:57:05 AndChat has joined
3176 2010-12-07 21:58:20 <BostX> pere, :)
3177 2010-12-07 21:59:51 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3178 2010-12-07 22:00:00 AndChat is now known as !~xulrunner@rrcs-69-193-89-227.nys.biz.rr.com|xulrunner42
3179 2010-12-07 22:02:58 * Kiba shades Haruka Nakamoto
3180 2010-12-07 22:07:19 <appamatto> Is email secure?
3181 2010-12-07 22:07:55 <appamatto> And if not, how best do you secure it?
3182 2010-12-07 22:09:12 <Lyspooner> brucewagner says that bitcoin uses elliptic curve cryptography.  i thought it uses SHA-256
3183 2010-12-07 22:09:34 <Lyspooner> or am i comparing apples and oranges
3184 2010-12-07 22:09:42 <appamatto> I don't think SHA-256 is a cryptosystem
3185 2010-12-07 22:10:00 <echelon> how do i increase the timeout?
3186 2010-12-07 22:10:02 <appamatto> in other words, it isn't a method of making key pairs
3187 2010-12-07 22:10:47 <appamatto> In fact SHA-256 wouldn't help you in any way with decryption
3188 2010-12-07 22:10:50 <gavinandresen> SHA-256 is one of the (two) hashing algorithms bitcoin uses.  It uses elliptic curve cryptography for public/private keys to sign transactions.
3189 2010-12-07 22:11:10 <gavinandresen> "It uses"  -->  Bitcoin uses.
3190 2010-12-07 22:11:23 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/androidclient1.png android client is making progress :)
3191 2010-12-07 22:11:30 <echelon> is there even a timeout setting?
3192 2010-12-07 22:11:36 <gavinandresen> echelon: timeout for what?
3193 2010-12-07 22:11:56 <echelon> before it gives up attempting to connect to a node
3194 2010-12-07 22:12:12 <lfm> echelon, why change it?
3195 2010-12-07 22:12:53 <echelon> i'd like to increase it since some nodes run as tor hidden services
3196 2010-12-07 22:13:12 <davex__> tcatm, is that using the mtgox web services?
3197 2010-12-07 22:13:21 <lfm> isnt it like about 10 min now?
3198 2010-12-07 22:13:24 <tcatm> davex__: yes
3199 2010-12-07 22:14:25 <BostX> tcatm, got the money already?
3200 2010-12-07 22:14:27 <echelon> still would be nice to add node prioritization and socks4a/socks5 support
3201 2010-12-07 22:14:46 <tcatm> BostX: nope, banks aren't that fast :/
3202 2010-12-07 22:14:49 <Kiba> a little side publiciy about bitcoin is nice...
3203 2010-12-07 22:16:41 <tcatm> BostX: will send you 320. Bought some coins today when they ware cheap :)
3204 2010-12-07 22:17:02 <BostX> heh :)
3205 2010-12-07 22:21:18 <xulrunner42> Bah!
3206 2010-12-07 22:21:28 <xulrunner42> How cheap?
3207 2010-12-07 22:22:09 <xulrunner42> That's more than my btc net worth
3208 2010-12-07 22:22:50 <tcatm> xulrunner42: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg5zvztgSzm1g10zm2g25
3209 2010-12-07 22:23:55 <Kiba> we're seeing a rally
3210 2010-12-07 22:24:17 <Kiba> 20.1% change from yesterday
3211 2010-12-07 22:24:35 Ry4an has joined
3212 2010-12-07 22:25:03 <Kiba> Russian rub also on rally
3213 2010-12-07 22:26:35 <xulrunner42> Oh, i guess they were cheap
3214 2010-12-07 22:26:42 <theymos> appamatto: Email is not secure at all. Use PGP.
3215 2010-12-07 22:26:56 <xulrunner42> I got this archos32 :)
3216 2010-12-07 22:27:03 <lfm> 0.17 to 0.23
3217 2010-12-07 22:27:25 <lfm> 0.24 actually
3218 2010-12-07 22:28:39 <kabo69> Hi!
3219 2010-12-07 22:28:47 <Kiba> hello
3220 2010-12-07 22:29:09 <Ry4an> At what point does "connections" start to level off?  I've just started bitcoind, and it's fun watching it climb.
3221 2010-12-07 22:29:22 <Kiba> 8, usually
3222 2010-12-07 22:29:28 ciuciu has joined
3223 2010-12-07 22:29:39 <Lyspooner> ;;bc,stats
3224 2010-12-07 22:29:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96296 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 471 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11967.91511084
3225 2010-12-07 22:29:45 <tcatm> 8 behind NAT, around 600 with portforwarding
3226 2010-12-07 22:29:46 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 150000
3227 2010-12-07 22:29:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 150000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes, and 3 seconds
3228 2010-12-07 22:30:00 <bencoder> mine goes to about 60
3229 2010-12-07 22:30:06 <kabo69> If I'm running bitcoind on one computer, and generating there, and then run poclbm.py on another computer, and point that other computer to the first computer, shouldn't I see the hashes per sec rise
3230 2010-12-07 22:30:10 <kabo69> ?
3231 2010-12-07 22:30:11 <tcatm> though reaching 600 takes really long if you don't force bitcoin to connect to every peer.
3232 2010-12-07 22:30:13 <kabo69> on the first computer
3233 2010-12-07 22:30:27 <tcatm> kabo69: nope, hashrate isn't transmitted
3234 2010-12-07 22:30:34 <lfm> kabo69, youd think so but it doesnt
3235 2010-12-07 22:30:36 <bencoder> holy crap
3236 2010-12-07 22:30:43 <Kiba> HOLY CRAP what?
3237 2010-12-07 22:30:46 <bencoder> 13950 in that block
3238 2010-12-07 22:30:56 <Kiba> wat about it?
3239 2010-12-07 22:31:00 <bencoder> just surprised me
3240 2010-12-07 22:31:24 <kabo69> ok, so I can just add the two hashes per sec to get my total hashes per sec?
3241 2010-12-07 22:31:32 <Kiba> 13950 BTC were exchanged in a single block?
3242 2010-12-07 22:31:35 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3243 2010-12-07 22:31:45 <bencoder> yea
3244 2010-12-07 22:31:46 <Kiba> yes
3245 2010-12-07 22:32:00 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/b/83230
3246 2010-12-07 22:32:02 <Kiba> could be EFF doing their thing
3247 2010-12-07 22:32:04 <bencoder> well it was only 6k or 7k with the other being refund
3248 2010-12-07 22:32:09 <tcatm> 40414.07 BTC in a single block
3249 2010-12-07 22:32:25 <Kiba> they are just integers, right?
3250 2010-12-07 22:32:31 <kabo69> ok, thanks :)
3251 2010-12-07 22:33:13 <lfm> there is a 90,000.00 transaction a while back at 2010-11-08 16:32:00
3252 2010-12-07 22:33:55 darrob has joined
3253 2010-12-07 22:36:49 <theymos> Most expensive block: http://blockexplorer.com/b/71552
3254 2010-12-07 22:37:07 <theymos> 249,950 BTC.
3255 2010-12-07 22:37:09 <bencoder> doesn't count
3256 2010-12-07 22:37:15 <bencoder> it's just shifting around addresses
3257 2010-12-07 22:37:16 <bencoder> :P
3258 2010-12-07 22:37:53 <bencoder> sending 10 coins at a time
3259 2010-12-07 22:39:04 <bencoder> interesting to follow that through actually
3260 2010-12-07 22:40:33 Lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3261 2010-12-07 22:40:52 <Kiba> it looks like the media didn't notice bitcoin at all
3262 2010-12-07 22:40:54 <Kiba> we slip by
3263 2010-12-07 22:41:02 <bencoder> of course
3264 2010-12-07 22:41:05 <nanotube> just fine for the moment. :)
3265 2010-12-07 22:41:08 <Kiba> even though there are lik 30 mention of #wikileak and #bitcoin
3266 2010-12-07 22:41:40 <bencoder> i'm kind of dreading having to explain this to people... after listening to bruce on the radio... I didn't really realise how hard it will be
3267 2010-12-07 22:41:50 <Kiba> I hope those federal reserve people shit their pants when the tsunami wave...
3268 2010-12-07 22:41:58 <Kiba> come
3269 2010-12-07 22:42:02 <bencoder> yes
3270 2010-12-07 22:42:20 <tcatm> The last time I explained the complete bitcoin concept it took me a few hours :)
3271 2010-12-07 22:42:36 <Kiba> we need bitcoin fast talk public speaking lessons!
3272 2010-12-07 22:42:40 <Kiba> err
3273 2010-12-07 22:42:47 <Kiba> public spekaing operation
3274 2010-12-07 22:43:06 <bencoder> yeah
3275 2010-12-07 22:43:13 <tcatm> We need a simple step-by-step guide explaining how to use bitcoins.
3276 2010-12-07 22:43:29 <nanotube> bitcoin elevator speech.
3277 2010-12-07 22:43:33 <nanotube> tcatm: i still have it on my todolist. :)
3278 2010-12-07 22:43:49 <nanotube> though i've been working on another project recently so haven't gotten to it just yet
3279 2010-12-07 22:43:59 <Kiba> bitcoin is one massive entrepeneural operation
3280 2010-12-07 22:44:35 <Kiba> extremely capitalistic, yet it have a strong vibrant community
3281 2010-12-07 22:44:53 <bencoder> i like that there's still a lot of donation going on :)
3282 2010-12-07 22:44:58 <ColonelPanic1> so when will bitcoin get to the point where I can buy weed for BC?
3283 2010-12-07 22:44:58 <bencoder> the EFF thing was great
3284 2010-12-07 22:45:01 <pere> is there some documentation on how fraud is handled with bitcoin?  how can a seller know that she got paid if someone sent the same coin to several sellers?
3285 2010-12-07 22:45:09 <Kiba> bencoder: oh yeah, it was a coup.
3286 2010-12-07 22:45:19 <bencoder> pere: wait a few blocks
3287 2010-12-07 22:45:32 <bencoder> pere: if the transaction doesn't become invalid, it was valid
3288 2010-12-07 22:45:38 <tcatm> pere: that's what confirmations are for.
3289 2010-12-07 22:45:42 <xulrunner42> Colonel: how much you got?
3290 2010-12-07 22:45:51 <bencoder> i have no idea what an invalid transaction will look like though
3291 2010-12-07 22:45:53 <ColonelPanic1> 1100BC
3292 2010-12-07 22:46:23 <bencoder> <.< take it to a pm guys
3293 2010-12-07 22:46:42 <tcatm> bencoder: I think it would show as 0/offline or something...
3294 2010-12-07 22:46:44 <xulrunner42> Sounds like at least a quarter
3295 2010-12-07 22:46:51 <theymos> bencoder: An invalid transaction just appears as 0/unconfirmed.
3296 2010-12-07 22:46:57 <bencoder> ah right
3297 2010-12-07 22:47:29 <bencoder> of course :)
3298 2010-12-07 22:47:43 <theymos> Could be 0/offline, too, depending on the circumstances (0/offline means that none of your peers have requested the transaction from you).
3299 2010-12-07 22:48:05 bitanarchy has joined
3300 2010-12-07 22:48:06 <lfm> bencoder, when someone fiorst sends you BTC it shows up in the gui as "unconfirmed" till there is about 6 blocks later it turns to "confirmed"
3301 2010-12-07 22:48:10 <xulrunner42> I have to make my eightt hundred for mtgox, sorry i dont have that much bud
3302 2010-12-07 22:48:23 <bencoder> i see, yeah, I remember now
3303 2010-12-07 22:48:33 <ColonelPanic1> (for sale where not prohibited by law)
3304 2010-12-07 22:48:47 <xulrunner42> Lol
3305 2010-12-07 22:49:21 bitanarchy has left ()
3306 2010-12-07 22:49:21 <lfm> xulrunner42, will you ship to canada?
3307 2010-12-07 22:49:35 <Ry4an> are their any numbers/info as to what the beefiest system/cluster bitcoin is currently running on?
3308 2010-12-07 22:49:46 <xulrunner42> Its not illegal to take your coin and then dont send you any weed, right?
3309 2010-12-07 22:49:51 <bencoder> probably ArtForz's setup
3310 2010-12-07 22:50:08 <lfm> Ry4an, Artforz sez he has like 50 GPUs or something running generation
3311 2010-12-07 22:50:10 <tcatm> Ry4an: Most likely ArtForz 24x HD 5970 + iirc 5x HD 5770
3312 2010-12-07 22:50:36 <bencoder> an echo where it gets more clear each time :)
3313 2010-12-07 22:51:09 * tcatm should start playing typespeed again
3314 2010-12-07 22:51:10 <lfm> but he might be exagerating or he might be coy and under-reporting his systems, hard to say
3315 2010-12-07 22:51:29 <bencoder> lfm: he's posted pics
3316 2010-12-07 22:51:36 <bencoder> oh, under reporting
3317 2010-12-07 22:51:38 <bencoder> yeah
3318 2010-12-07 22:51:41 <lfm> photoshoped?
3319 2010-12-07 22:51:49 albatross has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3320 2010-12-07 22:52:40 <Ry4an> I work in a supercomputing center, and while not feasible it would be fun to bring it up on one of the clusters. :)
3321 2010-12-07 22:53:00 <tcatm> I just noticed my cluster has solved a total 999 blocks.
3322 2010-12-07 22:53:03 <Ry4an> maybe if we called it a benchmark...
3323 2010-12-07 22:53:04 <bencoder> Well the setup he's got is enough to generate at least a block an hour or so, 1/6th of the network. Probably enough.
3324 2010-12-07 22:53:04 <lfm> Ry4an, do they have GPUs too?
3325 2010-12-07 22:53:16 <Ry4an> we have both GPU systems and very big non-GPU systems
3326 2010-12-07 22:53:42 <tcatm> Ry4an: I can help porting (I wrote two CPU and one GPU miner).
3327 2010-12-07 22:54:02 <lfm> Ry4an, the GPUs are probably the most interesting but it might still be hard to make a profit
3328 2010-12-07 22:55:47 <Ry4an> Yeah, time here is reserved in very narrow windows, so not feasible, but nice to imagine.
3329 2010-12-07 22:56:35 <lfm> Ry4an, ya, if you can get some free time on a sunday morning or something you might find it very cool
3330 2010-12-07 22:57:27 AndChat has joined
3331 2010-12-07 22:57:27 xulrunner42 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3332 2010-12-07 22:58:59 <Ry4an> to what extent would the nodes need to collaborate/chatter with one another?  Or more clearly, how quickly does the benefit from parallelization drop off?
3333 2010-12-07 22:59:24 <ArtForz> embarassingly parallel
3334 2010-12-07 22:59:42 <lfm> very little bandwidth needed really. a couple kb every 10 sec or so for each node could do it
3335 2010-12-07 23:00:40 <lfm> ArtForz, we were just talking about you, were your ears burning?
3336 2010-12-07 23:01:04 <ArtForz> no, I was afk for a bit
3337 2010-12-07 23:01:45 AndChat has quit (!~xulrunner@rrcs-69-193-89-227.nys.biz.rr.com|Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3338 2010-12-07 23:01:50 <Ry4an> ArtForz: I was asking who had the most processing power tossed at bitcoin and you were held up
3339 2010-12-07 23:02:12 <ArtForz> possible, I'm only ~16% of total
3340 2010-12-07 23:02:32 <ArtForz> and yeah, currently 24x 5970 and 5x 5770
3341 2010-12-07 23:02:41 <lfm> he is the most of those publicly known at least
3342 2010-12-07 23:03:03 <ArtForz> I dont bother with CPU generation as it's way too inefficient
3343 2010-12-07 23:03:03 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3344 2010-12-07 23:03:31 <Ry4an> that bad, eh?
3345 2010-12-07 23:04:07 <lfm> Ry4an, the electricity consumed tends to cost more than the value of the BTC produced
3346 2010-12-07 23:04:52 AndChat has joined
3347 2010-12-07 23:05:18 ciuciu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3348 2010-12-07 23:05:42 <midnightmagic> i wish fpga were cheaper.
3349 2010-12-07 23:05:56 <ArtForz> yep, initial investment pretty much kills FPGA :/
3350 2010-12-07 23:06:08 <lfm> i wish my power was cheaper
3351 2010-12-07 23:06:54 <midnightmagic> custom asic is therefore also ruled out--> no economy of scale to take advantage of.
3352 2010-12-07 23:07:03 <ArtForz> yep
3353 2010-12-07 23:07:07 <Ry4an> Lfm: yeah, I'm not looking for profit (though unless your power company accepts BTC I don't know how you're converting prices).  I was just thinking it'd be fun to see what a big cluster could do.
3354 2010-12-07 23:07:36 <lfm> Ry4an, you convert BTC to $ at mtgox or something like it
3355 2010-12-07 23:07:39 <tcatm> Ry4an: For the GPUs we could calculate the hashrate ;)
3356 2010-12-07 23:07:46 darrob has joined
3357 2010-12-07 23:07:54 <ArtForz> yep, I guess we're pretty much stuck with trying to find the most efficient standard hardware until value of btc grows considerably
3358 2010-12-07 23:08:20 BostX has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3359 2010-12-07 23:09:24 AndChat has quit (!~xulrunner@rrcs-69-193-89-227.nys.biz.rr.com|Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3360 2010-12-07 23:09:34 <ArtForz> 3GHz hexcore PhenomII / Opteron peak should be ~21.5Mhash/s
3361 2010-12-07 23:09:50 <Ry4an> Yeah, I dunno what the GPU setups here are as they're not available to researchers.  The CPU stuff is all public https://www.msi.umn.edu/hardware/
3362 2010-12-07 23:09:58 <lfm> Ry4an, I have a whole spreadsheet page I use to calulate the current exchange rate, the current power prices etc to see if its worth it
3363 2010-12-07 23:10:43 <ArtForz> so... about 30000 cores to match the current network
3364 2010-12-07 23:11:12 <lfm> like 5690 cores?
3365 2010-12-07 23:11:16 <lfm> 5890
3366 2010-12-07 23:11:26 <midnightmagic> i was looking at clearspeed, the chip is nice. about 2/5 peak flops of radeon hd 5870, but i ahve no idea where ti get it. it doesn't seem to be sold through digikey.
3367 2010-12-07 23:11:28 <lfm> or whatever they are
3368 2010-12-07 23:11:30 <ArtForz> no, K10 3GHz CPU cores
3369 2010-12-07 23:11:41 <lfm> oh
3370 2010-12-07 23:12:02 <ArtForz> so ... about 5000 hexcore CPUs
3371 2010-12-07 23:12:44 <midnightmagic> lfm: you just have to have a significant share of current computing power in the grid, don't you?
3372 2010-12-07 23:13:03 <ArtForz> with ATI GPUs you'd need ~320 HD5870s, or 190 HD5970s
3373 2010-12-07 23:13:29 <lfm> midnightmagic, depends what your trying to do?
3374 2010-12-07 23:14:05 pere has left ("Forlater kanalen")
3375 2010-12-07 23:14:56 <ArtForz> with nvidia... well... 1300 tesla C2050s should do
3376 2010-12-07 23:16:04 <jgarzik> if bitcoin would be successful -- on a par with the currencies of other nation-states -- I could see a profit model for custom ASIC
3377 2010-12-07 23:16:12 <ArtForz> yeah, like I said
3378 2010-12-07 23:16:12 <lfm> midnightmagic, if you could get over 50% of the bitcoin net you could control it in various nasty ways, yes.
3379 2010-12-07 23:16:23 <ArtForz> currently it's simply too small to get enough economy of scale
3380 2010-12-07 23:16:41 <Kiba> so ArtForz will be start his own bitcoin mining company someday?
3381 2010-12-07 23:16:53 <ArtForz> dunno, possibly
3382 2010-12-07 23:17:00 <lfm> kiba, like about 6 months ago?
3383 2010-12-07 23:17:16 <Kiba> lfm: hmm?
3384 2010-12-07 23:17:50 <lfm> kiba how would it be different from what he already does?
3385 2010-12-07 23:18:15 <midnightmagic> lfm: make money to pay for the power, and eventually pay off the hardware. beyond that, i'd rather use the hardware for software engineering. :)
3386 2010-12-07 23:18:18 <ArtForz> so, to match current network PhenomII-X6s would consume about 625kW, ATI HD5970s 56kW, nvidia teslas 310kW
3387 2010-12-07 23:18:45 <midnightmagic> brb
3388 2010-12-07 23:19:14 <lfm> midnightmagic, you only need a high end ati gpu to make a  profit at present, tho you might not if your power rates are high or the difficulty goes too high
3389 2010-12-07 23:20:10 <ArtForz> yep, I expect in the near future we'll have mostly ATI GPUs from places where power is cheap, and maybe a bunch of botnets
3390 2010-12-07 23:20:37 <lfm> ArtForz, and people who generate at a loss but dont care
3391 2010-12-07 23:20:59 <ArtForz> yeah, and people replacing electrical space heaters with GPUs over the winter
3392 2010-12-07 23:21:11 <bencoder> i could do with that
3393 2010-12-07 23:21:15 <bencoder> the heating here is crap
3394 2010-12-07 23:21:40 <lfm> bencoder, a gpu farm will warm you up nicley, maybe too warm tho
3395 2010-12-07 23:22:30 <bencoder> no money for gpu's
3396 2010-12-07 23:23:03 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3397 2010-12-07 23:23:07 <lfm> 5770 are about $120 thses days I think, they should still work
3398 2010-12-07 23:23:46 <ArtForz> 5770 isnt too bad, best Mh/$ so far and 1.45Mh/W
3399 2010-12-07 23:23:56 <ArtForz> 5970 is 1.82Mh/W
3400 2010-12-07 23:24:06 <lfm> if you dont have $120, I worry you'll need to sell your cpu to eat
3401 2010-12-07 23:24:14 <ArtForz> yep
3402 2010-12-07 23:24:27 pr0wler has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3403 2010-12-07 23:25:15 <bencoder> yeah i could probably afford a 5770
3404 2010-12-07 23:25:16 * doublec tries generating on the n900
3405 2010-12-07 23:25:21 <doublec> any guesses for the hash rate?
3406 2010-12-07 23:25:37 <lfm> doublec, 100 khash/sec
3407 2010-12-07 23:25:43 <bencoder> they're more expensive here in uk, if you do the gbpusd conversion
3408 2010-12-07 23:25:58 <doublec> lfm, close - 150 khash/sec
3409 2010-12-07 23:26:07 <bencoder> not bad
3410 2010-12-07 23:26:07 <tcatm> pretty fast for a phone
3411 2010-12-07 23:26:10 <bencoder> yea
3412 2010-12-07 23:26:23 delta9 is now known as DELTA9
3413 2010-12-07 23:26:33 <doublec> It'd be faster with neon sha code
3414 2010-12-07 23:26:34 <tcatm> Does it have USB and VGa out?
3415 2010-12-07 23:26:40 <doublec> tcatm, yes
3416 2010-12-07 23:26:50 <ArtForz> wow, thats pretty decent
3417 2010-12-07 23:27:03 <doublec> I suspect the battery would drain pretty fast!
3418 2010-12-07 23:27:10 * tcatm is considering it as a replacement for his laptop (that does 300 khash/s)
3419 2010-12-07 23:27:11 <lfm> what is the cpu, an atom?
3420 2010-12-07 23:27:22 <ArtForz> 600MHz Arm Cortex A8
3421 2010-12-07 23:27:30 <ArtForz> wait, it's superscalar...
3422 2010-12-07 23:27:44 <ArtForz> thoretical peak should be ... 180kh/s
3423 2010-12-07 23:27:57 lolcat has joined
3424 2010-12-07 23:28:11 <lfm> so 150 sounds like pretty good for early implementation
3425 2010-12-07 23:28:41 <doublec> I'll run it for longer when I'm plugged into a powersource and get a better average
3426 2010-12-07 23:28:42 <ArtForz> if you got a NEON SIMD engine, twice that
3427 2010-12-07 23:29:11 <doublec> At the moment I'm testing to see what the battery hit is for running bitcoind full time
3428 2010-12-07 23:29:21 <ArtForz> wait a sec... rotates are free on arm
3429 2010-12-07 23:29:40 <lfm> so it is little endian? Satoshi sed he doesnt think big-endian cpus will work
3430 2010-12-07 23:29:56 <tcatm> free rotates? That should improve performance a lot...
3431 2010-12-07 23:30:04 <ArtForz> yeah
3432 2010-12-07 23:30:17 <tcatm> (How are they doing free rotates?)
3433 2010-12-07 23:30:43 <ArtForz> arm has a 32-bit barrel shifter that can be "chained" with instructions
3434 2010-12-07 23:30:48 <lfm> barrel shifter pipelineingI would guess
3435 2010-12-07 23:30:54 <ArtForz> yep
3436 2010-12-07 23:30:57 <tcatm> oh that's interesting.
3437 2010-12-07 23:30:57 mtgox has joined
3438 2010-12-07 23:31:05 <doublec> it's little endian
3439 2010-12-07 23:31:14 <ArtForz> so... about 3100 ops/hash
3440 2010-12-07 23:31:40 <ArtForz> if we are 2-way superscalar, that's 387kh/s peak
3441 2010-12-07 23:31:51 <doublec> heh, that's close to my old laptop
3442 2010-12-07 23:32:17 pr0wler has joined
3443 2010-12-07 23:32:39 <ArtForz> yep, Cortex A8 is 2-way superscalar
3444 2010-12-07 23:33:19 <lfm> is that cpu used in iphone too?
3445 2010-12-07 23:33:49 <ArtForz> 3Gs and 4, yup
3446 2010-12-07 23:34:09 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3447 2010-12-07 23:34:45 <lfm> wonder if apple store would apporve? :-)
3448 2010-12-07 23:36:01 <tcatm> Attach it to a addicting game, have it send coins to you and sell the game for $0.99. Might work...
3449 2010-12-07 23:36:27 <lfm> hehe well I was thinking more of a legit bitcoin app
3450 2010-12-07 23:39:42 <tcatm> I could port my android client once it's working.
3451 2010-12-07 23:40:13 <lfm> I spoze it would be pretty easy to embed something like cpuminer in some trojan app :-(
3452 2010-12-07 23:40:16 <doublec> I'm not sure running a bitcoind is feasible for normal userse
3453 2010-12-07 23:40:24 <doublec> it requires a constant network connection
3454 2010-12-07 23:40:45 <doublec> I don't know how 'busy' it keeps the cpu. I'd expect it to hinder the phones ability to sleep and go into low power wireless mode.
3455 2010-12-07 23:40:46 <lfm> use wi-fi link
3456 2010-12-07 23:40:52 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
3457 2010-12-07 23:40:59 <tcatm> Normal users should use wallets at mtgox or mybitcoin.
3458 2010-12-07 23:41:18 <doublec> bitcoind doesn't seem to handle the ip address changing very well when connected to peers
3459 2010-12-07 23:41:31 <doublec> eg. when I go from wifi onto the cell network onto another wifi
3460 2010-12-07 23:41:41 <ArtForz> a 600MHz OMAP at nominal V and 100% core load should be ~1.4W
3461 2010-12-07 23:41:44 <tcatm> From what I've learned normal users have bad backup strategies so they shouldn't store a wallet on their computers anyway.
3462 2010-12-07 23:41:47 <lfm> if you do it right should work on ipod without phone at all
3463 2010-12-07 23:41:53 <lfm> ipad
3464 2010-12-07 23:42:26 <ArtForz> so ... about 0.3 Mh/W
3465 2010-12-07 23:42:33 <doublec> it does seem to handle switching networks fine if I use -connect to a specific node
3466 2010-12-07 23:43:12 <ArtForz> so more efficient than desktop CPUs, but not by much
3467 2010-12-07 23:44:05 <doublec> tcatm, yeah I'm not sure I'd trust having thousands of btc on my phone
3468 2010-12-07 23:44:22 <lfm> tcatm, are you saying we should hold their wallets for them?
3469 2010-12-07 23:44:51 <doublec> I'd have a main bitcoin instance on my home network and just transfer small amouints to the phone
3470 2010-12-07 23:45:12 <tcatm> lfm: Yep. Not for all, but for most of them.
3471 2010-12-07 23:45:22 <lfm> doublec, use cpuminer on phone and bitcoind on pc should work fine
3472 2010-12-07 23:52:15 <lfm> accessing fund from phone Id use mybitcoin or mtgox account