1 2010-12-10 00:00:00 <slush_cz1> mine is ~560 already overclocked a little.
   2 2010-12-10 00:00:03 <ArtForz> some a bit more, some a bit less, they dont all OC the same
   3 2010-12-10 00:00:23 <slush_cz1> well, so they are overclocked. I was not sure with that
   4 2010-12-10 00:00:35 <ArtForz> yeah
   5 2010-12-10 00:00:37 <appamatto> theymos, I'll be on again later and tell you
   6 2010-12-10 00:00:47 <ArtForz> avg core clock is 830ish
   7 2010-12-10 00:01:31 <slush_cz1> Yes, I can clock mine over 850, but I'm worry about lifetime. Temperature is too high... I'm running it on 800 right now
   8 2010-12-10 00:01:33 <theymos> kiba: That's probably just because the TTL is low. Registrants don't want to use a high TTL, but end-users want cached results. As a result, everyone groups their queries together to get both benefits. P2P DNS will work the same, I bet.
   9 2010-12-10 00:02:08 <ArtForz> define "too high"
  10 2010-12-10 00:02:17 <kiba> what is a TTL?
  11 2010-12-10 00:03:01 <AAA_awright> Time to Live
  12 2010-12-10 00:03:21 <slush_cz1> too much high :-D. Now I'm 90°C on chip, but 112°C on VDDC
  13 2010-12-10 00:03:27 <ArtForz> ouch
  14 2010-12-10 00:03:34 <ArtForz> http://bayimg.com/CaBdbaADE
  15 2010-12-10 00:04:01 <slush_cz1> what cooling_
  16 2010-12-10 00:04:07 <theymos> kiba: DNS records have a TTL associated with them, which is the maximum amount of time you can cache the record. They're not usually more than a day long.
  17 2010-12-10 00:04:56 <ArtForz> stock cooler
  18 2010-12-10 00:05:02 <slush_cz1> AFAIK up to 120°C should be OK, but I dont know how long.
  19 2010-12-10 00:05:03 <ArtForz> 80% fan speed on octd-e, 60% fan speed on everything else
  20 2010-12-10 00:05:45 <ArtForz> octa-e are stacked, so the top boxes run quite a lot hotter than the bottom ones
  21 2010-12-10 00:05:57 <slush_cz1> I have fan to 'auto', expecting that driver know what he is doing
  22 2010-12-10 00:06:03 <ArtForz> bad idea
  23 2010-12-10 00:06:16 <ArtForz> stock fan profile is something like 50% @ 90°C
  24 2010-12-10 00:06:21 <slush_cz1> yes
  25 2010-12-10 00:06:49 <ArtForz> sadly ati hasnt released safe max temp for 5xxx
  26 2010-12-10 00:06:50 <slush_cz1> I set up 70% fan now. It is going under 80 on chip
  27 2010-12-10 00:07:09 <slush_cz1> sorry, 80% on fan
  28 2010-12-10 00:07:17 <ArtForz> for 4xxx it was 90°C continous 110°C short-term I think
  29 2010-12-10 00:07:33 <ArtForz> and yes, VRM temps are a problem
  30 2010-12-10 00:07:43 <slush_cz1> but I also have to live here! Why it is so loud :-D
  31 2010-12-10 00:07:51 <ArtForz> yeah, it's loud
  32 2010-12-10 00:08:07 <ArtForz> I used to run my cards at 1.15V and > 900MHz core
  33 2010-12-10 00:08:17 <slush_cz1> its behind door and I listen it
  34 2010-12-10 00:08:33 <ArtForz> with 1.15 core even at 80% fan VRM temps were > 110°C
  35 2010-12-10 00:08:39 <slush_cz1> I'm affraid of higher voltage unless I'm with stock cooler
  36 2010-12-10 00:08:58 <slush_cz1> no, did not raising voltage
  37 2010-12-10 00:09:02 <ArtForz> yea
  38 2010-12-10 00:09:05 <slush_cz1> just for a moment as experiment
  39 2010-12-10 00:09:30 <ArtForz> I went back to stock voltage after one of the VRM DrMOS on one of mine blew up
  40 2010-12-10 00:09:31 <slush_cz1> Currently it is 70oC on chip and 97oC on VDDC witch 80% fan
  41 2010-12-10 00:09:53 <ArtForz> I think you can lower fan speed a bit
  42 2010-12-10 00:10:08 <ArtForz> < 110 VRM and < 80 core should be ok
  43 2010-12-10 00:10:08 <slush_cz1> sooory, Im too tired. 79 oC on chip
  44 2010-12-10 00:10:26 <ArtForz> I'm, worried more about VRM than core
  45 2010-12-10 00:11:59 Lyspooner has joined
  46 2010-12-10 00:12:55 <slush_cz1> Also temperature of room with computer is too high. Currently I use card as room heating :). During a weekend I will make some changes also in room ventilation, so environment temperature should go lower for few oC
  47 2010-12-10 00:13:15 <ArtForz> yeah, I heat my house with my GPUs :)
  48 2010-12-10 00:13:42 <slush_cz1> yep, I'm looking to VDDC temp more than core
  49 2010-12-10 00:14:12 gavinandresen has joined
  50 2010-12-10 00:14:48 <slush_cz1> When room changes make situation better, I will play with OC  again. Maybe buy another card if I found some on bazaar again ;). I'm definitely not playing games, but this is fun
  51 2010-12-10 00:15:31 <ArtForz> http://bayimg.com/eABDfaAdd
  52 2010-12-10 00:16:11 <slush_cz1> You are a devil }:-<
  53 2010-12-10 00:16:13 <slush_cz1> :))
  54 2010-12-10 00:17:24 <slush_cz1> I'm little worry with rising difficulty. Paying back investment is many months already. Not considered difficulty after monts.
  55 2010-12-10 00:17:29 <ArtForz> yep
  56 2010-12-10 00:17:45 <slush_cz1> I see 4 cards for one PC, right?
  57 2010-12-10 00:17:48 <ArtForz> yep
  58 2010-12-10 00:17:54 <slush_cz1> which MB?
  59 2010-12-10 00:18:02 <ArtForz> MSI 790FX-GD70
  60 2010-12-10 00:18:09 <ArtForz> PSUs are 2*1kW
  61 2010-12-10 00:18:17 <slush_cz1> Currently running card on Intel Atom ;)
  62 2010-12-10 00:18:28 <ArtForz> 5" pcie extenders for top cards
  63 2010-12-10 00:18:50 <ArtForz> errr... no... 145mm ... so a bit <6"
  64 2010-12-10 00:19:17 <[Noodles]> how much power do you need on your atom-ati-combo?
  65 2010-12-10 00:19:35 <slush_cz1> 340W
  66 2010-12-10 00:19:47 <slush_cz1> wait a moment
  67 2010-12-10 00:20:21 <slush_cz1> 330W right now, but clock on 800MHz
  68 2010-12-10 00:20:45 <ArtForz> not bad, my 4*5970 boxes are 1280W each
  69 2010-12-10 00:21:22 <slush_cz1> cool MB
  70 2010-12-10 00:21:37 <ArtForz> with 80+ gold PSUs
  71 2010-12-10 00:22:21 <ArtForz> with the PSU for the top 2 cards a 80+ bronze it was ~1330W
  72 2010-12-10 00:22:36 <slush_cz1> It's not so expensive. Will consider this instead Atom
  73 2010-12-10 00:23:01 <slush_cz1> I have 850W PS now. I think it should be OK for two cards, right?
  74 2010-12-10 00:23:12 <ArtForz> if its a good model, yes
  75 2010-12-10 00:23:32 <ArtForz> I got 1kW because I was overvolting
  76 2010-12-10 00:23:51 <ArtForz> at 1.15V core each box was ~1650W
  77 2010-12-10 00:23:57 <slush_cz1> Corsair TX850, 80+
  78 2010-12-10 00:24:05 <appamatto> theymos, you still around?
  79 2010-12-10 00:24:11 <theymos> Yes.
  80 2010-12-10 00:24:37 <appamatto> okay, here's the idea.  The big problems of mining names in bitdns are domain squatting and perpetual ownership
  81 2010-12-10 00:24:57 <ArtForz> that PSU should be ok for 2 5970s
  82 2010-12-10 00:25:03 <appamatto> There are no proposed solutions to the first, and some ad hoc solutions to the second problem like expiration, which doesn't seem to really work
  83 2010-12-10 00:25:21 Diablo-D3 has joined
  84 2010-12-10 00:25:28 <slush_cz1> great news. I choosed this with 2 cards in mind...
  85 2010-12-10 00:25:37 <ArtForz> overvolting might be pushing it though
  86 2010-12-10 00:25:54 xelister has left ("Konversation terminated!")
  87 2010-12-10 00:26:09 <appamatto> The naive way to solve these problems is to make a system of claims.  So in a block you would have 50 claims that are for specific names.
  88 2010-12-10 00:26:18 <slush_cz1> I do not plan it; as I said, I'm worry with card life time. Prefer slower performance, but longer life :)
  89 2010-12-10 00:26:20 <appamatto> Whoever has the most claims to a name "wins"
  90 2010-12-10 00:26:33 <ArtForz> yeah
  91 2010-12-10 00:27:00 <appamatto> So anyone could get specific names cheaply and could protect their names by buying extra claims
  92 2010-12-10 00:27:01 <slush_cz1> When two cards, I'm also considering water cooling; mainly because of my girlfriend ;)
  93 2010-12-10 00:27:07 <ArtForz> btw, arctic cooling accelero 5970 = useless
  94 2010-12-10 00:27:22 <ArtForz> VRM temps are *higher* than stock cooler
  95 2010-12-10 00:27:38 <ArtForz> but it's nice and quiet
  96 2010-12-10 00:27:44 <appamatto> If you want a really secure name you could contract with "com" and get "com.theymos" or something, since the owner of com will use significant resources to protect its name
  97 2010-12-10 00:28:00 <theymos> appamatto: I don't like it. A domain is like property. Once I have property, it shouldn't matter how much someone is willing to pay to take it from me -- it's mine.
  98 2010-12-10 00:28:02 <ArtForz> so decent for gaming, not so good for mining
  99 2010-12-10 00:28:33 gvsteve has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 100 2010-12-10 00:28:36 <appamatto> theymos, names are like that now.  But would you really think so if you hadn't been using DNS for the last decades?
 101 2010-12-10 00:28:53 <appamatto> We're talking about controlling where the browser goes when you type a name into it
 102 2010-12-10 00:28:58 <slush_cz1> Searched google, but did not find anything suitable for 5970 yet
 103 2010-12-10 00:29:13 <appamatto> I'm questioning whether that should be owned permanently
 104 2010-12-10 00:29:32 <ArtForz> theres only one 3rd party air cooler for 5907, that AC accelero, and it sucks
 105 2010-12-10 00:29:38 <slush_cz1> well, in my country; I don't like to pay another 100$ for transport
 106 2010-12-10 00:29:45 <ArtForz> so either stick with stock or go water
 107 2010-12-10 00:30:25 <theymos> appamatto: I like how DNS works now. I want it to continue to work how it does, basically.
 108 2010-12-10 00:30:28 <appamatto> theymos, think of how the first block will be filled with "google", "microsoft", etc. and how much value that entails
 109 2010-12-10 00:31:00 <gavinandresen> appamatto, theymos:  maybe I'm naive, but why not just have all the domains be first-come-first-served?  Then let them get sold to whoever values them most (maybe with expiration in case keys get lost or owners disappear).  Why do they have to be scarce?
 110 2010-12-10 00:31:16 <theymos> appamatto: I don't support generating domains, anyway. In the proposal by me and nanotube, individual servers could police for things like that.
 111 2010-12-10 00:31:23 <gavinandresen> appamatto:  how's that any different from "think of all the bitcoins the first people to generate have now...."
 112 2010-12-10 00:31:24 <appamatto> first-come-first-serve makes it incredibly scarce, gavinandresen
 113 2010-12-10 00:31:49 <slush_cz1> OK. Let's see how help better room ventilation. I would like to go slightly over 600Mhash. And then I will see if I will invest more money to second card :)
 114 2010-12-10 00:31:50 <appamatto> gavinandresen, every bitcoin is worth the same.  In bitdns trademarks are worth much more than "asneothuasntoehu"
 115 2010-12-10 00:32:01 <slush_cz1> ArtForz, thanks for chatting; I'm going to bed
 116 2010-12-10 00:32:04 <slush_cz1> Bye all!
 117 2010-12-10 00:32:26 <appamatto> theymos, subdomaining can work in either model
 118 2010-12-10 00:32:41 <Keefe> or somehow modify the accelero to properly cool the vrms?
 119 2010-12-10 00:33:02 <ArtForz> it's simply a stupid design
 120 2010-12-10 00:33:20 <theymos> gavinandresen: I wouldn't mind that so much, I think, if expiration times were short. But domain registration must not be tied to a proof-of-work -- it's much too inflexible.
 121 2010-12-10 00:33:38 <gavinandresen> appamatto:  so google.p2p is worth more than a32932491.p2p ... so what?
 122 2010-12-10 00:33:52 <ArtForz> hrrrm... actually one of those 5870 VRM coolers that stick out at the top might fit
 123 2010-12-10 00:34:12 <appamatto> gavinandresen, so if it's first come first served then google.p2p will be permanently allocated to the owner of genesis+1
 124 2010-12-10 00:34:15 <theymos> appamatto: We have the concept of "BitDNS servers", which are people who parse the registrations in the block chain and produce a zone file from it according to their rules.
 125 2010-12-10 00:34:52 <theymos> Domains in Internet DNS are so cheap that they might as well be free.
 126 2010-12-10 00:35:09 <gavinandresen> theymos: I agree.  I'm thinking I put together a few hundred domain registrations, hash them, then submit a transaction.  If that transaction is valid (according to whatever rules the other bitdns nodes have set) then I own all those domains...
 127 2010-12-10 00:35:44 <appamatto> gavinandresen, why should you control what happens when someone types "google" into a web browser
 128 2010-12-10 00:35:50 <appamatto> The people who use the names should have some say in this
 129 2010-12-10 00:36:28 <kiba> how would that work?
 130 2010-12-10 00:36:41 <appamatto> Well, opening it up to claims is one way
 131 2010-12-10 00:36:49 <kiba> what are claims?
 132 2010-12-10 00:36:59 <theymos> gavinandresen: There should be some minimal fee, I think, to prevent someone from registering a million domains at once or something.
 133 2010-12-10 00:37:10 <appamatto> Basically you can mine a claim to "kiba" and then whoever has the most such claims decides where "kiba" points
 134 2010-12-10 00:37:15 <gavinandresen> theymos: I agree.  That can be a rule for what a valid bitdns transaction is.
 135 2010-12-10 00:37:21 <kiba> appamatto: so if I pay more, I win?
 136 2010-12-10 00:37:34 <appamatto> kiba, if you mine more, yes
 137 2010-12-10 00:37:41 <gavinandresen> theymos (as can the maximum size of the stuff I hash, yada yada yada)
 138 2010-12-10 00:37:51 <kiba> appamatto: so you can take people's domain by paying it with some expensive fee
 139 2010-12-10 00:37:55 <appamatto> yes
 140 2010-12-10 00:37:58 <kiba> so somebody can take kiba
 141 2010-12-10 00:38:04 <kiba> appamatto: dude, that's so wrong
 142 2010-12-10 00:38:07 <appamatto> which is essentially a solution to the squatter problem
 143 2010-12-10 00:38:20 <gavinandresen> appamatto: how's that any different from google.com paying the owner of google.p2p enough to get them to sell?
 144 2010-12-10 00:38:35 <kiba> gavinandresen: and it make stuff unpredictable
 145 2010-12-10 00:38:39 Lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 146 2010-12-10 00:38:44 <appamatto> Having squatters is much more unpredictable
 147 2010-12-10 00:38:48 <kiba> I have to worry everyday that some rich fucktard is going to take my domain
 148 2010-12-10 00:38:48 <Keefe> so the gov can knock out your name by simply buying it for more than you're willing to pay?
 149 2010-12-10 00:38:52 <appamatto> Yes
 150 2010-12-10 00:38:52 <gavinandresen> (assuming google.com CARES about google.p2p... which they won't...)
 151 2010-12-10 00:38:54 <theymos> gavinandresen: That's basically how our proposal works, then. You register a domain for a small fee, and the BitDNS server processing your registration is configured to accept this fee, then you'll appear in their records.
 152 2010-12-10 00:39:02 <kiba> appamatto: that is just...wrong.
 153 2010-12-10 00:39:23 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: people do care about their "brand."  MarkMonitor and other companies make a living doing nothing but paying attention to that sort of thing.
 154 2010-12-10 00:39:31 <appamatto> Seems like it solves many, many problems
 155 2010-12-10 00:39:31 <kiba> so we're going to have rich faggot taking poor people's name.
 156 2010-12-10 00:39:54 <jgarzik> (Google is a prominent MarkMonitor client)
 157 2010-12-10 00:40:05 <appamatto> theymos, I think that proposal is an insanely bad idea
 158 2010-12-10 00:40:19 <kiba> I think appamatto's idea is insanely bad.
 159 2010-12-10 00:40:27 <appamatto> It means that someone can reserve every English word at once for a fee
 160 2010-12-10 00:40:42 <appamatto> and own it in perpetuity
 161 2010-12-10 00:40:55 <theymos> appamatto: Why hasn't a single owner done that with Internet DNS, then? That's equally cheap.
 162 2010-12-10 00:40:56 <appamatto> names must be mined
 163 2010-12-10 00:41:04 <appamatto> They did do it
 164 2010-12-10 00:41:13 <theymos> A single person didn't.
 165 2010-12-10 00:41:20 <jgarzik> quote, "The pricing for domain registration (in the form of the TX fee required) is set by the individual DNS servers that respond to btcdns queries."
 166 2010-12-10 00:41:21 <appamatto> And that's why if you try random domain names you'll see crap portal sites everywhere
 167 2010-12-10 00:41:45 <appamatto> theymos, they didn't do it because the registrar is slow and doesn't allow that kind of abuse
 168 2010-12-10 00:42:00 <gavinandresen> appamatto:  the only reason to mine is to make something artificially scarce.  I see no reason why domain names need to be artificially scarce.
 169 2010-12-10 00:42:13 <appamatto> They need to be scarce if owning one entails so much powerful
 170 2010-12-10 00:42:16 <appamatto> power*
 171 2010-12-10 00:42:18 <jgarzik> I don't see how you'll get consistent answers to queries.  The fees go to the miners.  The individual DNS servers don't receive money, so I don't see their incentive.
 172 2010-12-10 00:42:18 <kiba> I see no reason why people should adopt appamatoo claim proposal
 173 2010-12-10 00:42:25 <kiba> it just mean that rich can do whatever they want
 174 2010-12-10 00:42:31 <ArtForz> looks like a thermalright VRM-R3 might fit a 5970 w/ accelero
 175 2010-12-10 00:42:37 <kiba> if a new competition pop up, just buy his domain name outright
 176 2010-12-10 00:42:48 <appamatto> kiba, that's like saying the rich can get all the food
 177 2010-12-10 00:43:07 <kiba> appamatto: dude, I don't want some rich faggot from buying stuff THAT I PAID FOR.
 178 2010-12-10 00:43:13 <gavinandresen> If it cost me almost nothing to get clearcoin.com  AND clearc0in.com AND clrcoin.com and clrcn.com (and all the other misspellings I could think of), I would.  And if somebody came up with a higher-value use for one of them I'd sell......
 179 2010-12-10 00:43:20 <theymos> jgarzik: You might run your own server. To figure out which domains are not spam, you set some fee to require.
 180 2010-12-10 00:43:20 <jgarzik> it is of questionable utility if it is essentially random (dependent upon fees which some servers may or may not accept, based on their schedules) whether or not I'll get an answer at all for google.p2p DNS queries.
 181 2010-12-10 00:43:46 <jgarzik> theymos: how do users find *.p2p on a reliable basis?
 182 2010-12-10 00:43:56 <appamatto> again, why should you own a _name_ in a way that makes your claim unquestionable?
 183 2010-12-10 00:44:08 <kiba> appamatto: because it DISRUPT BUSINESS
 184 2010-12-10 00:44:10 <jgarzik> theymos: it is unscalable to ask users "use <this> server to lookup google.p2p, <that> server to lookup jgarzik.p2p"
 185 2010-12-10 00:44:16 <gavinandresen> appamatto: because you were a lucky bastard and happened to get it first.
 186 2010-12-10 00:44:29 <jgarzik> nobody wants to maintain a bazillion lists of DNS servers, and to what domains they'll respond.
 187 2010-12-10 00:44:38 <kiba> I can't plan if my brand can be brought by rich faggot at ANY TIME
 188 2010-12-10 00:44:47 <theymos> jgarzik: Maybe we should change the name from "BitDNS server" to something else... *YOU* run your own server and it resolves *ALL* BitDNS TLDs.
 189 2010-12-10 00:44:58 <appamatto> gavinandresen, that is just completely unacceptable to any of the current owners of major domain names
 190 2010-12-10 00:45:06 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 191 2010-12-10 00:45:14 <jgarzik> theymos: and what is the incentive for me to do that?
 192 2010-12-10 00:45:31 <theymos> jgarzik: You don't need an incentive. You're providing services to yourself only.
 193 2010-12-10 00:45:43 <theymos> You're not generating. You're behaving as a client.
 194 2010-12-10 00:46:06 <theymos> We call it a "server" because 99% of people will not run their own server, but will use a public one.
 195 2010-12-10 00:46:15 <kiba> I can deal with domain squatters
 196 2010-12-10 00:46:19 <jgarzik> theymos: what is the incentive to run a public one?
 197 2010-12-10 00:46:20 <kiba> but I cna't deal with uncertainity
 198 2010-12-10 00:46:32 <jgarzik> I agree that 99% of people don't want to run a server at all.
 199 2010-12-10 00:46:36 <jgarzik> maybe 99.8%
 200 2010-12-10 00:46:46 <theymos> jgarzik: Possibly people who don't want to run their own server will pay a subscription. Possibly domains will pay to get into a specific server.
 201 2010-12-10 00:48:33 <theymos> A BitDNS server is like a recursive DNS server. Anyone can run one without much trouble, but no one wants to.
 202 2010-12-10 00:48:41 <jgarzik> a lot of handwaving.  the "who runs a DNS server?" end does not seem thought through at all.  seems more sustainable to directly pay a pool of servers, rather than throw fees away to miners.
 203 2010-12-10 00:49:02 <jgarzik> write a transaction to pool's BTC address, and include a hash of data
 204 2010-12-10 00:49:13 <kiba> miners would run DNS server because they make money if people use BitDNS
 205 2010-12-10 00:49:16 <jgarzik> pull the data, via hash, from an off-bitcoin network.
 206 2010-12-10 00:49:23 <jgarzik> DNS servers make money.  database is fully distributed.
 207 2010-12-10 00:50:09 <kiba> how are the renewal fee determined?\
 208 2010-12-10 00:50:20 <jgarzik> kiba: it is random whether or not a miner is paid for running DNS service.  that randomness _increases_, as more data applications are added to bitcoin chain.
 209 2010-12-10 00:50:46 <kiba> ???
 210 2010-12-10 00:51:09 * jgarzik disappears for Goodnight Moon
 211 2010-12-10 00:51:40 <theymos> jgarzik: Why are there a lot of free recursive DNS servers? BitDNS would be no more intensive to run.
 212 2010-12-10 00:52:01 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 213 2010-12-10 00:52:24 <ne0futur> public free recursive DNS servers are generally just dns servers badly configured by bad admins
 214 2010-12-10 00:52:29 <appamatto> I think another possibility might be a consensus-based dns
 215 2010-12-10 00:52:45 <kiba> no consenus.
 216 2010-12-10 00:52:46 <appamatto> Sort of like what would happen if you typed the name into google and clicked the I'm feeling lucky button
 217 2010-12-10 00:53:01 <appamatto> That's another way for names to be meaningful
 218 2010-12-10 00:53:14 <kiba> unpredictablity is a bad idea(TM)
 219 2010-12-10 00:53:23 <theymos> Democracy is the worst thing ever. It has no place in critical infrastructure like DNS.
 220 2010-12-10 00:53:25 <kiba> I don't want some jackass decide my business ain't worthy of resolving
 221 2010-12-10 00:53:47 <appamatto> Then protect your domain
 222 2010-12-10 00:53:53 <kiba>  by what?
 223 2010-12-10 00:54:20 <kiba> my user should be able to know that my domain WILL point to that server
 224 2010-12-10 00:54:31 <kiba> not to some other server they don't want to visit
 225 2010-12-10 00:54:32 <appamatto> if you really need unquestionable security, you can join a domain pool and be "com.kiba", and help com protect its name from attacks
 226 2010-12-10 00:55:00 <kiba> wtf is that?
 227 2010-12-10 00:55:13 <appamatto> It's just contracting with the owner of "com" to be a subdomain
 228 2010-12-10 00:55:20 <kiba> THIS IS JUST SCREWING AROUND
 229 2010-12-10 00:55:57 <doublec> but if you're buying from 'com' isn't that no better than the existing domain system?
 230 2010-12-10 00:56:00 <kiba> I don't want to play game with a fucking democracy
 231 2010-12-10 00:56:05 <doublec> the owner of 'com' can take your site ofline whenever they want
 232 2010-12-10 00:56:17 <kiba> or fucking humans.
 233 2010-12-10 00:56:22 <kiba> who decide on their fucking whims
 234 2010-12-10 00:56:31 <appamatto> doublec, 'com' can be a pool that works transparently
 235 2010-12-10 00:56:50 <theymos> kiba: You'll love our system, then. Absolutely no trust required in anyone.
 236 2010-12-10 00:57:19 <appamatto> I think the current DNS is an anti-pattern
 237 2010-12-10 00:57:30 <appamatto> Names aren't absolute property
 238 2010-12-10 00:57:44 <kiba> human are worse.
 239 2010-12-10 00:58:24 <theymos> I've been very satisfied with the current DNS. I get my names cheaply and easily. It only sucks when you're doing something controversial.
 240 2010-12-10 00:59:37 <kiba> nobody want their bitcoins to be tampered with a fucking democracy. Nobody want their names that THEY PAID FOR to be tempered with as well.
 241 2010-12-10 01:01:32 <kiba> domain squatters can sit on their marginally profitable domains
 242 2010-12-10 01:01:38 <kiba> all they want
 243 2010-12-10 01:02:32 <appamatto> may the best system win :p
 244 2010-12-10 01:02:39 <kiba> theymos: there should be no trial system
 245 2010-12-10 01:02:44 <theymos> I agree.
 246 2010-12-10 01:02:58 <kiba> if you register it, you don't profit from it, you pay for it, period.
 247 2010-12-10 01:03:13 <kiba> that will solve most of the worthless squatering and make them take real risk.
 248 2010-12-10 01:03:58 <ArtForz> yep, trial = BS
 249 2010-12-10 01:04:00 <Zarutian> ;;blocks
 250 2010-12-10 01:04:00 <gribble> Error: "blocks" is not a valid command.
 251 2010-12-10 01:04:06 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
 252 2010-12-10 01:04:07 <gribble> 96781
 253 2010-12-10 01:04:09 <theymos> Domains are much like land: each section is unique, and can only be owned by one person. Transfers can only happen willingly, or through abandonment. And first come = first served.
 254 2010-12-10 01:04:10 sgornick has joined
 255 2010-12-10 01:06:33 <kiba> simple, uber-predictable ++
 256 2010-12-10 01:11:27 <Zarutian> hmm, perhaps you can tell me, what do you think inversed killfile might be? (Reffering to Idoru by William Gibson)
 257 2010-12-10 01:15:44 omglolbbq has joined
 258 2010-12-10 01:15:55 omglolbbq is now known as KwukDuck
 259 2010-12-10 01:16:18 <KwukDuck> anyone have a clue why a fast new graphics card would give relative low hashing rate on poclbm?
 260 2010-12-10 01:17:58 <Diablo-D3> is it nvidia?
 261 2010-12-10 01:18:05 <KwukDuck> yes
 262 2010-12-10 01:18:23 <KwukDuck> it gives 77.000khash on poclbm and 80.000 on your diablo miner
 263 2010-12-10 01:18:47 <Diablo-D3> thats why
 264 2010-12-10 01:18:51 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is extremely slow
 265 2010-12-10 01:18:58 <Diablo-D3> wait
 266 2010-12-10 01:18:59 <Diablo-D3> rewind
 267 2010-12-10 01:19:05 <Diablo-D3> my miner works on nvidia now?
 268 2010-12-10 01:19:12 <KwukDuck> itś a gtx 470
 269 2010-12-10 01:19:20 <Diablo-D3> what version of the nvidia drivers? I must know
 270 2010-12-10 01:19:21 <KwukDuck> works fine here... just slow
 271 2010-12-10 01:19:48 <KwukDuck> 263.06
 272 2010-12-10 01:19:54 <KwukDuck> dev driver
 273 2010-12-10 01:19:59 <Diablo-D3> hrrrrm
 274 2010-12-10 01:22:32 <[Noodles]> i'd say, that's ok for a gtx470, doesnt seem slow to me
 275 2010-12-10 01:22:51 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: but yes, nvidia hardware has very very very poor opencl performance
 276 2010-12-10 01:23:10 <ArtForz> theoretical peak according to my spreadsheet is 82Mh/s
 277 2010-12-10 01:23:10 <KwukDuck> ok i just tought it was realy slow since my friend has a comparable HD card that pulls over 300.000
 278 2010-12-10 01:23:28 <[Noodles]> gtx260 here running at 36.000 stock-core/45.000overclocked, 470 should double that
 279 2010-12-10 01:23:30 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: a 5870 does around 300
 280 2010-12-10 01:23:38 <KwukDuck> thats his card
 281 2010-12-10 01:23:51 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: 5870 is currently the fastest single gpu card for mining
 282 2010-12-10 01:23:56 <ArtForz> ati HD5870 should be ~ 310Mh/s peak
 283 2010-12-10 01:23:59 <[Noodles]> its an ATI card, that's why
 284 2010-12-10 01:24:12 <[Noodles]> nvidia sucks for bitcoin-mining
 285 2010-12-10 01:24:14 <KwukDuck> ok tnx :) didn't know it would difffer that much :)
 286 2010-12-10 01:25:25 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 287 2010-12-10 01:25:28 <KwukDuck> would the cuda clientt go faster?
 288 2010-12-10 01:25:32 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: nvidia seems to be unable to hire chip designers who know anything
 289 2010-12-10 01:25:33 <Diablo-D3> nope
 290 2010-12-10 01:25:35 <Diablo-D3> it wouldnt
 291 2010-12-10 01:25:42 <[Noodles]> no, cuda is about the same
 292 2010-12-10 01:25:45 <Diablo-D3> on nvidia drivers, opencl and cuda are compiled by the same compiler
 293 2010-12-10 01:25:54 <Diablo-D3> in the end, you usually get pretty much the same shader
 294 2010-12-10 01:26:10 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: the theoretical maximum for your card is 82, I get 80
 295 2010-12-10 01:26:18 <Diablo-D3> you're not going to see the last 2 closed.
 296 2010-12-10 01:26:37 spacemagic has joined
 297 2010-12-10 01:26:42 <KwukDuck> so i have another 8800GT nvidia, would a comparable ATI card give much more too?
 298 2010-12-10 01:27:05 T_X_ has joined
 299 2010-12-10 01:27:10 <spacemagic> can you limit upload speed in bitcoin.conf?
 300 2010-12-10 01:27:13 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 301 2010-12-10 01:28:05 <ArtForz> 8800GT = about 25Mh/s
 302 2010-12-10 01:28:26 <midnightmagic> KwukDuck: radeon crushes geforce, esp. the old 8800gt. I have a 9600GT here and it only does 14Mhashes/sec. I have a Radeon HD 5870 (measly $300 or less, now) and it does over 300M.
 303 2010-12-10 01:28:36 <ArtForz> HD4770 = about 72Mh/s
 304 2010-12-10 01:28:45 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: well, you could buy a 5770 or a 5850 and get a shitload of performance
 305 2010-12-10 01:28:46 <ArtForz> HD5750 about 110Mh/s
 306 2010-12-10 01:28:50 <theymos> spacemagic: No. It shouldn't use very much if you have port 8333 non-forwarded.
 307 2010-12-10 01:28:55 <ArtForz> HD5770 about 150Mh/s
 308 2010-12-10 01:29:02 <KwukDuck> interresting
 309 2010-12-10 01:29:08 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: or grab a 6870; 5850 mining speeds but 5870 3D speed
 310 2010-12-10 01:29:16 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: and its about as cheap as a 5850
 311 2010-12-10 01:29:20 <ArtForz> yep, 6870 = about 230Mh/s
 312 2010-12-10 01:29:43 <spacemagic> @theymos Ok, because my roommates were saying the internet slowed down while I was using it
 313 2010-12-10 01:29:49 <spacemagic> I'll have to check that
 314 2010-12-10 01:30:13 <KwukDuck> what would 4850 do?
 315 2010-12-10 01:30:19 Grantt has joined
 316 2010-12-10 01:30:28 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: 75, I own one
 317 2010-12-10 01:30:42 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: 4xxx are pretty shit at opencl
 318 2010-12-10 01:30:44 <midnightmagic> (actually I have four radeon hd 5870 in the same machine, and unfortunately due to heat issues I can't get a full 300M out of every card.. only the one on the very bottom.)
 319 2010-12-10 01:30:48 <KwukDuck> thats my friends old card i can probably get it for free xD
 320 2010-12-10 01:31:18 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: the best cards for performance per dollar/watt are 5850, 5970, 5870, 5770, 6850, 6870 in that order
 321 2010-12-10 01:31:26 <midnightmagic> I'd just like to thank ArtForz publically for pointing out that PCI-e risers do exist and can work. I think that might be my only solution (flexible pci-e extension ribbon)
 322 2010-12-10 01:31:30 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: nvidia and radeon 4xxx dont even rate on the list
 323 2010-12-10 01:32:03 <midnightmagic> probably better than the 8800gt :-)
 324 2010-12-10 01:32:06 <KwukDuck> i can get almost same khash on a free card then an expensive one, i'll bring that one back :)
 325 2010-12-10 01:36:51 <spacemagic> maybe my router is crap if the network is bogging with one version of instance running
 326 2010-12-10 01:37:10 <theymos> Are you still downloading blocks? How many connections do you have?
 327 2010-12-10 01:37:30 <spacemagic> 8 connections @ 2500khash
 328 2010-12-10 01:37:59 <spacemagic> not downloading blocks
 329 2010-12-10 01:38:05 <spacemagic> i've had it for a couple days
 330 2010-12-10 01:39:06 <ArtForz> btw, my last shipment of risers was 2" longer than the prev ones
 331 2010-12-10 01:39:15 <ArtForz> and one of them won't do 2.0 speeds
 332 2010-12-10 01:39:37 <theymos> That shouldn't use very much bandwidth at all. You might try running with -connect=ip to connect to a single reliable peer ( http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes ).
 333 2010-12-10 01:39:58 <ArtForz> old risers were 145mm, new ones are 190mm
 334 2010-12-10 01:41:26 <ArtForz> old = ~4" cable + 40mm PCB, new = ~6" cable + 40mm PCB
 335 2010-12-10 01:41:39 <ArtForz> I fucking ordered 4" ones
 336 2010-12-10 01:42:02 <midnightmagic> whoah, good info..
 337 2010-12-10 01:44:08 <theymos> midnightmagic: If you want to connect to more than one node for reliability (might be a good idea), you can run with '-maxconnections=2 -addnode=ip -addnode-ip -noirc'
 338 2010-12-10 01:44:49 <spacemagic> what is the purpose of confirming transactions?
 339 2010-12-10 01:44:58 <theymos> That was directed at spacemagic. You have unusually similar nicks...
 340 2010-12-10 01:45:08 <spacemagic> lol
 341 2010-12-10 01:45:55 <spacemagic> thanks, that's with the bitcoind precursor correct?
 342 2010-12-10 01:46:13 <theymos> spacemagic: A transaction with more confirmations is less likely to be reversed. 6 confirmations is almost impossible.
 343 2010-12-10 01:46:26 <theymos> spacemagic: bitcoind or bitcoin
 344 2010-12-10 01:46:59 <midnightmagic> ok
 345 2010-12-10 01:49:10 <spacemagic> I have 700 confirmations
 346 2010-12-10 01:49:16 <spacemagic> seems pointlessly large
 347 2010-12-10 01:49:24 <theymos> It grows forever.
 348 2010-12-10 01:49:39 <spacemagic> alright
 349 2010-12-10 01:52:23 <Diablo-D3> http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2010/12/batmen-by-the-pool.jpg
 350 2010-12-10 01:52:24 <Diablo-D3> I lold
 351 2010-12-10 01:57:07 <spacemagic> Ha! relaxing leather suits
 352 2010-12-10 02:02:00 <kiba> elimination by mericeleess argumentation
 353 2010-12-10 02:05:01 <Diablo-D3>     "difficulty" : 12252.03471156,
 354 2010-12-10 02:05:02 <Diablo-D3> ffff
 355 2010-12-10 02:05:13 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc
 356 2010-12-10 02:05:13 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
 357 2010-12-10 02:05:14 <Diablo-D3> er
 358 2010-12-10 02:05:18 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 75000
 359 2010-12-10 02:05:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 53 minutes, and 47 seconds
 360 2010-12-10 02:05:22 <Diablo-D3> god fucking damnit.
 361 2010-12-10 02:10:32 <spacemagic> ouch...
 362 2010-12-10 02:14:52 [Noodles] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 363 2010-12-10 02:18:12 [Noodles] has joined
 364 2010-12-10 02:18:53 <spacemagic> noodles!
 365 2010-12-10 02:19:03 <[Noodles]> hm?
 366 2010-12-10 02:19:27 <spacemagic> Just a jovial entrance exclamation
 367 2010-12-10 02:20:11 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 368 2010-12-10 02:22:14 * [Noodles] is calculating mining-costs ;o)
 369 2010-12-10 02:23:37 <spacemagic> what khash are you at?
 370 2010-12-10 02:24:45 <[Noodles]> combined ~400M
 371 2010-12-10 02:24:53 <ArtForz> "not enough"
 372 2010-12-10 02:25:16 <[Noodles]> HD5850/HD5570 (+GTX260)
 373 2010-12-10 02:25:52 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 374 2010-12-10 02:25:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96789 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1994 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11886.43492892
 375 2010-12-10 02:25:59 CarlFK1 has joined
 376 2010-12-10 02:26:04 CarlFK has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 377 2010-12-10 02:26:40 Granttt has joined
 378 2010-12-10 02:26:54 <[Noodles]> if difficulty keeps rising by 50% AND price stays at 0.2, the ATI combo can run loss-less untill around Feb/Mar2011
 379 2010-12-10 02:27:08 <ArtForz> yup
 380 2010-12-10 02:27:31 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 381 2010-12-10 02:27:33 <ArtForz> though I suspect we'll see levelling off quite a bit before that
 382 2010-12-10 02:28:18 <[Noodles]> i was thinking about investing in another card or two, but i wont
 383 2010-12-10 02:28:27 <[Noodles]> energy is too expensive around here
 384 2010-12-10 02:28:49 <ArtForz> yeah, I'll stop buying new cards after adding this batch of 12 5970s
 385 2010-12-10 02:28:55 <[Noodles]> lol
 386 2010-12-10 02:29:16 <ArtForz> not to mention 5970s are back up to 410EUR incl. tax
 387 2010-12-10 02:29:55 <ArtForz> got the last 12 for 380 incl. tax (so 320EUR w/o tax)
 388 2010-12-10 02:30:25 <[Noodles]> i'll just put my money directly into bitcoins instead, as soon as mtgox excepts EUR-banks
 389 2010-12-10 02:31:02 <[Noodles]> accepts of course
 390 2010-12-10 02:31:11 <[Noodles]> should take a nap
 391 2010-12-10 02:39:13 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 392 2010-12-10 02:42:24 white has joined
 393 2010-12-10 02:45:35 acous has joined
 394 2010-12-10 02:46:03 dwdollar1 has joined
 395 2010-12-10 02:46:51 white has quit (Client Quit)
 396 2010-12-10 02:48:53 dwdollar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 397 2010-12-10 02:49:38 kiba` has joined
 398 2010-12-10 02:50:25 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 399 2010-12-10 02:50:49 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 400 2010-12-10 02:54:30 dwdollar1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 401 2010-12-10 03:09:35 Lysacor has joined
 402 2010-12-10 03:10:06 <spacemagic> wouldn't it make more sense to have bitcoin constantly distributing coins for the amount you contribute?
 403 2010-12-10 03:10:27 <spacemagic> instead of on the offchance that your specific computer gets the block
 404 2010-12-10 03:10:34 <theymos> You can join a pool if you want that.
 405 2010-12-10 03:10:57 <spacemagic> i know, but as a currency it seems to leave a lot to chance
 406 2010-12-10 03:11:00 <ArtForz> overall, imo... no
 407 2010-12-10 03:11:20 <spacemagic> although.. maybe you are right.
 408 2010-12-10 03:11:31 <ArtForz> the node that found a block contributed to the block chain
 409 2010-12-10 03:12:29 <spacemagic> well, since I'm only contributing 2700khash i suppose I'm better off finding a pool
 410 2010-12-10 03:12:35 <ArtForz> yep
 411 2010-12-10 03:14:00 <spacemagic> the first pool I tried didn't include all the cmake files, so... anyone know of others?
 412 2010-12-10 03:14:06 <spacemagic> that work
 413 2010-12-10 03:19:41 kiba` is now known as kiba
 414 2010-12-10 03:27:58 CarlFK1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 415 2010-12-10 03:30:28 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
 416 2010-12-10 03:30:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96794 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1989 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes, and 29 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11644.63334155
 417 2010-12-10 03:32:37 bertodsera has joined
 418 2010-12-10 03:33:54 <spacemagic> anyone know what boost package had regex, filesystem, date_time etc?
 419 2010-12-10 03:34:56 <doublec> boost-all-dev
 420 2010-12-10 03:36:18 <doublec> spacemagic, which pool didn't include all the files?
 421 2010-12-10 03:36:55 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 100000
 422 2010-12-10 03:36:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 6 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes, and 20 seconds
 423 2010-12-10 03:37:53 <spacemagic> i'm assuming the cmake files aren't pointing to the right place
 424 2010-12-10 03:38:01 <spacemagic> because I have boost-all-dev
 425 2010-12-10 03:38:21 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
 426 2010-12-10 03:38:21 <spacemagic> i'm on bluishcoder.co.nz
 427 2010-12-10 03:40:20 <doublec> linux?
 428 2010-12-10 03:40:37 <spacemagic> yes
 429 2010-12-10 03:44:13 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 430 2010-12-10 03:48:52 Grantt has joined
 431 2010-12-10 03:51:15 <spacemagic> ;;bc,calc 3000
 432 2010-12-10 03:51:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 29 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 24 minutes, and 56 seconds
 433 2010-12-10 03:51:20 <spacemagic> ha
 434 2010-12-10 03:52:19 <ArtForz> thats... 0.246 btc/day
 435 2010-12-10 03:52:49 <midnightmagic> 1/25 of a cent or so?
 436 2010-12-10 03:52:53 <ArtForz> at current market prices about $0.05
 437 2010-12-10 03:53:55 <midnightmagic> everybody I know is starting to plough in with their normal system CPU doing the mining.. i guess my machine has unrealistically raised their expectations somewhat..
 438 2010-12-10 03:54:08 nelisky has joined
 439 2010-12-10 03:54:22 <midnightmagic> i don't think they quite understand the raw computing horsepower of the high-ish end radeon cards.
 440 2010-12-10 03:54:45 <ArtForz> one 5970 = about 100 midrange CPUs
 441 2010-12-10 03:55:04 <midnightmagic> the whole "hey at theoretical peak, my machine is 1/2 of #500 of the top500 supercomputers in the world list right now" doesn't really sink in, apparently.
 442 2010-12-10 03:56:32 <midnightmagic> yeah, 2 base-10 orders of magnitude man..
 443 2010-12-10 03:57:04 <ArtForz> for raw peak FP I'd make top100 ;)
 444 2010-12-10 03:57:15 <midnightmagic> they always seem so bummed when i tell them, "it would take a couple hundred of those laptops to do the same thing.."
 445 2010-12-10 03:57:22 <midnightmagic> you should apply!
 446 2010-12-10 03:57:36 <ArtForz> honest linpack sucks for GPUs
 447 2010-12-10 03:57:54 <ArtForz> way too much communication needed
 448 2010-12-10 03:58:19 <midnightmagic> does amd do proper dma for radeon yet in the sdk?
 449 2010-12-10 03:58:25 <ArtForz> nope
 450 2010-12-10 03:58:29 <ArtForz> opencl still can't do DMA
 451 2010-12-10 03:58:29 <midnightmagic> bah
 452 2010-12-10 03:58:40 <ArtForz> CAL can, but who wants to write their kernel in IL?
 453 2010-12-10 03:59:37 <midnightmagic> ah! it can? i was led to believe it was a driver limitation for GP computational cores..
 454 2010-12-10 03:59:58 <ArtForz> nope
 455 2010-12-10 04:00:50 <ArtForz> maybe SDK2.3 will fix that, but I'm not too optimistic
 456 2010-12-10 04:01:05 <midnightmagic> i'd love to learn a lower-level, thanks for pointing me at cal/il
 457 2010-12-10 04:01:11 yebyen has joined
 458 2010-12-10 04:01:24 <Lysacor> ;;bc,calc 30000
 459 2010-12-10 04:01:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 weeks, 6 days, 7 hours, 14 minutes, and 29 seconds
 460 2010-12-10 04:01:41 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 461 2010-12-10 04:01:44 <ArtForz> you can get ATIs openCL runtime to dump kernel IL/shader ASM by setting a env var
 462 2010-12-10 04:02:36 <yebyen> Hum
 463 2010-12-10 04:03:26 <midnightmagic> oh hey, difficulty went up. :-)
 464 2010-12-10 04:03:35 <yebyen> I guess i will still play the lotto
 465 2010-12-10 04:03:43 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 700000
 466 2010-12-10 04:03:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 20 hours, 52 minutes, and 54 seconds
 467 2010-12-10 04:04:27 <midnightmagic> i guess that's not too bad. wish i could engage the 3rd card without it going into thermal shutdown. stupid gigabyte motherboards anyway cramming them in so close. did they even test it?!
 468 2010-12-10 04:04:38 <yebyen> So, datacenter owners can still get a free lunch
 469 2010-12-10 04:07:02 <spacemagic> when i try to run bitcoinr executable it says cmd not found
 470 2010-12-10 04:08:10 <doublec> ./cmake-bitcoinr/bitcoinr
 471 2010-12-10 04:09:44 <ne0futur> or put the binary in the path
 472 2010-12-10 04:10:11 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
 473 2010-12-10 04:10:25 <spacemagic> mmk. in usr/bin works too?
 474 2010-12-10 04:10:53 yebyen has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 475 2010-12-10 04:11:01 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 476 2010-12-10 04:11:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96797 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1986 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10797.36875051
 477 2010-12-10 04:11:38 carnage-- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 478 2010-12-10 04:18:52 <spacemagic> if i start another instance of bitcoinr and put it on another one of my addresses, will it use my other cpu core?
 479 2010-12-10 04:19:05 <kiba> yeah, I think so
 480 2010-12-10 04:19:12 <kiba> I have two running instances
 481 2010-12-10 04:19:41 <spacemagic> ok, perfect
 482 2010-12-10 04:21:06 <doublec> Use the same address
 483 2010-12-10 04:21:22 <kiba> hmm
 484 2010-12-10 04:21:25 <doublec> there's no need to use seperate addresses per client
 485 2010-12-10 04:21:57 <doublec> the server will sum the hash contributions of both clients and print out the portion of coins you'll get for the combined total
 486 2010-12-10 04:22:04 <doublec> based on the address
 487 2010-12-10 04:23:48 <jgarzik> doublec: how does the remote miner protocol differ from standard JSON-RPC getwork?  I would like to make cpuminer compatible.
 488 2010-12-10 04:24:02 <doublec> jgarzik, I don't know
 489 2010-12-10 04:27:40 <spacemagic> i have it running with 2 separate addresses atm, i'll do same address next time I pull them up fresh
 490 2010-12-10 04:27:56 <spacemagic> i'm just happy i have it running now
 491 2010-12-10 04:28:26 maximi89 has joined
 492 2010-12-10 04:30:02 <maximi89> how can i obtain a bitcoin?
 493 2010-12-10 04:30:23 <doublec> ,,freebitcoins
 494 2010-12-10 04:30:24 <gribble> Error: "freebitcoins" is not a valid command.
 495 2010-12-10 04:30:30 <jgarzik> maximi89: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
 496 2010-12-10 04:30:30 <doublec> I always get that wrong
 497 2010-12-10 04:30:49 <spacemagic> lol
 498 2010-12-10 04:32:03 <maximi89> jgarzik: but i mean this use a P2P network, how we can convert a dollar to Bitcoins? and what are that "markets"? http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
 499 2010-12-10 04:32:37 <jgarzik> maximi89: click on the links on that page, to go to the markets
 500 2010-12-10 04:33:09 <jgarzik> maximi89: those markets are where you exchange bitcoins for another currency (or vice versa)
 501 2010-12-10 04:33:10 <maximi89> jgarzik: but i need to be registered to get Bitcoins?
 502 2010-12-10 04:33:45 <spacemagic> easy way to print your addresses to cmdline instead of opening gui?
 503 2010-12-10 04:33:51 <jgarzik> maximi89: yes.  registration is free at mtgox and most other sites.  or you can join #bitcoin-otc, look at the order book and try to negotiate a OTC transaction.
 504 2010-12-10 04:36:11 <maximi89> so, the markets are like a bank?
 505 2010-12-10 04:36:33 <AAA_awright> Markets are like a market
 506 2010-12-10 04:36:38 <AAA_awright> You trade things
 507 2010-12-10 04:36:46 <AAA_awright> Dollars for bitcoins or yen or whatever
 508 2010-12-10 04:38:42 <maximi89> and then i can convert the bitcoins in USD and viceversa right? using paypal to send or get the cash?
 509 2010-12-10 04:42:29 <nanotube> ;;learn freebitcoins as Get some free bitcoins to play with at https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
 510 2010-12-10 04:42:29 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 511 2010-12-10 04:42:55 <nanotube> ;;alias freebitcoins faucet
 512 2010-12-10 04:42:55 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 513 2010-12-10 04:43:28 <nanotube> doublec: jgarzik: --^ there, factoid exists now. :)
 514 2010-12-10 04:43:41 <doublec> nanotube, thanks :)
 515 2010-12-10 04:47:29 <spacemagic> if I'm not contributing at the time the pool finds a block, do i miss out completely?
 516 2010-12-10 04:48:21 <doublec> you get a share based on the hashes you've contributed
 517 2010-12-10 04:48:27 acous has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 518 2010-12-10 04:48:55 <spacemagic> ok, so that is why I should use the same Address
 519 2010-12-10 04:48:55 <doublec> So it remembers what you contributed when you disconnected
 520 2010-12-10 04:48:59 <doublec> yes
 521 2010-12-10 04:49:53 <spacemagic> doublec, priceless. for everything else there's mastercard.. oh wait...
 522 2010-12-10 04:50:42 mndrix_ has joined
 523 2010-12-10 04:50:49 mndrix_ has left ()
 524 2010-12-10 04:52:41 albatross_ has joined
 525 2010-12-10 04:55:20 <nanotube> doublec: so the pool's back up i take it? :)
 526 2010-12-10 04:55:35 <doublec> nanotube, yep
 527 2010-12-10 04:55:38 <doublec> server died over night
 528 2010-12-10 04:55:50 <nanotube> ah
 529 2010-12-10 04:56:36 <spacemagic> server 173.255.205.10?
 530 2010-12-10 04:57:41 <maximi89> nice my first half bitcoin
 531 2010-12-10 04:58:10 albatross_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 532 2010-12-10 04:58:25 <maximi89> when it receive a bitcoin it use lot of CPU
 533 2010-12-10 04:58:28 <maximi89> 140%
 534 2010-12-10 04:58:48 <nanotube> doublec: btw, if you come across any other frequently requested info that deserves a gribble factoids, please let me know. :)
 535 2010-12-10 04:58:49 <spacemagic> .005 btc!
 536 2010-12-10 04:59:08 <maximi89> right 0.05
 537 2010-12-10 04:59:51 <doublec> nanotube, will do
 538 2010-12-10 05:03:18 brian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 539 2010-12-10 05:11:12 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 540 2010-12-10 05:21:55 DemeGeek has joined
 541 2010-12-10 05:23:37 remmy_ has joined
 542 2010-12-10 05:24:51 <DemeGeek> How many people here would frown upon a BTC bank?
 543 2010-12-10 05:25:19 <kiba> no one
 544 2010-12-10 05:25:31 <kiba> MtGox and mybitcoin are what we called banks
 545 2010-12-10 05:25:48 <DemeGeek> I thought those were currency exchanges
 546 2010-12-10 05:25:51 <DemeGeek> my bad
 547 2010-12-10 05:26:02 <kiba> mtgox double as a bank in addition to currency exchange
 548 2010-12-10 05:26:02 <doublec> mybitcoin is not a currency exchange
 549 2010-12-10 05:27:46 <nanotube> DemeGeek: if your bank pays interest... you'd get an inflow of customers. :)
 550 2010-12-10 05:28:38 <kiba> fractional reserve banking
 551 2010-12-10 05:28:39 <DemeGeek> nanotube: I was thinking of a Interest Paying one when I thought of it, does mybitcoin not pay interest?
 552 2010-12-10 05:28:46 <kiba> no it does
 553 2010-12-10 05:28:47 <kiba> not
 554 2010-12-10 05:28:56 <kiba> if it does, it means mybitcoin is probably a fractional bank
 555 2010-12-10 05:30:12 <kiba> unless mybitcoin earn interests other way
 556 2010-12-10 05:30:15 <kiba> like ads
 557 2010-12-10 05:30:34 <DemeGeek> That also was what I was thinking.
 558 2010-12-10 05:30:57 <nanotube> DemeGeek: no, none of the current services pay interest. in order to pay interest, you must be making money from somewhere. either loaning funds out, or fees, or something else.
 559 2010-12-10 05:31:08 <MT`AwAy> fractional banks are something people using bitcoins want to avoid
 560 2010-12-10 05:31:21 <kiba> right.
 561 2010-12-10 05:31:27 <kiba> there will probably be a few of them anyway
 562 2010-12-10 05:31:59 brian has joined
 563 2010-12-10 05:32:04 <MT`AwAy> all the bitcoins deposited on my wallet system are 100% backed by real bitcoins :D
 564 2010-12-10 05:32:13 <nanotube> free market. :) assuming a fractional bank had a good reputation and solid disclosure policy... i would consider choosing it over a non-interest-paying bank.
 565 2010-12-10 05:32:38 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: haha right. :)
 566 2010-12-10 05:33:10 <MT`AwAy> althrough I'm thinking of something similar, a non fractional bank with interest
 567 2010-12-10 05:33:17 <MT`AwAy> (interest would come from something else)
 568 2010-12-10 05:34:13 <MT`AwAy> btw I'm looking for someone to do web design for me, I can pay in bitcoins :D
 569 2010-12-10 05:34:36 <DemeGeek> How complex of a design?
 570 2010-12-10 05:35:33 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so where would interest come from (if it's not a secret) ? )
 571 2010-12-10 05:35:51 <DemeGeek> Is there any ad companies that pay in BTC?
 572 2010-12-10 05:36:15 <nanotube> maybe, check bitcoin.org/trade
 573 2010-12-10 05:36:23 redengin has joined
 574 2010-12-10 05:36:47 <DemeGeek> bitads
 575 2010-12-10 05:36:59 <DemeGeek> thanks for the link nano
 576 2010-12-10 05:38:29 <MT`AwAy> [14:33:43] <DemeGeek> How complex of a design? <- I would prefer someone who can do JS and nice sleek designs :p
 577 2010-12-10 05:38:29 <nanotube> DemeGeek: np :) though bitads seems to be down atm...
 578 2010-12-10 05:38:42 <DemeGeek> I know, refreshing periodicly
 579 2010-12-10 05:38:45 <MT`AwAy> [14:34:40] <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so where would interest come from (if it's not a secret) ? ) <- for now I prefer to keep it a secret, since it's so obvious and easy
 580 2010-12-10 05:39:07 <nanotube> heh ic
 581 2010-12-10 05:39:09 <MT`AwAy> DemeGeek: if you do ads for my web hosting service as an affiliate I can pay you in bitcoins
 582 2010-12-10 05:39:26 <theymos> Percentage interest only works if you're actually using investor money for something.
 583 2010-12-10 05:39:39 <kiba> BioMike is working up an advertising clearinghouse
 584 2010-12-10 05:40:52 <DemeGeek> MT`AwAy: What you said probably makes sense but I didn't underdstand, sorry.
 585 2010-12-10 05:44:37 <kiba> I am suprisied there's no bank trying to do fractional reserve
 586 2010-12-10 05:45:15 <MT`AwAy> kiba: the market is too small for that
 587 2010-12-10 05:45:16 <theymos> There were some HYIP scams.
 588 2010-12-10 05:45:27 * kiba predicts most people will lose their money when a bitcoin happens
 589 2010-12-10 05:45:34 <kiba> and the only one left standing are full reserve banks
 590 2010-12-10 05:45:46 <kiba> bitcoin bubble collapse
 591 2010-12-10 05:45:54 <MT`AwAy> :p
 592 2010-12-10 05:46:25 <kiba> why do fractional reserve banking happens anyway?
 593 2010-12-10 05:46:33 <kiba> what make them so persistant?
 594 2010-12-10 05:48:18 <kiba> wee
 595 2010-12-10 05:48:20 <kiba> I want to know
 596 2010-12-10 05:48:52 <spacemagic> is it possible that the $ it costs to power your cpu is actually more expensive than the BTC you get out of the cpu power?
 597 2010-12-10 05:48:55 remmy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 598 2010-12-10 05:49:09 <kiba> yes
 599 2010-12-10 05:49:17 <OneFixt> kiba: profit for the bankers, of course
 600 2010-12-10 05:49:27 <spacemagic> so, what's the point?
 601 2010-12-10 05:49:28 <theymos> spacemagic: It's likely if your electricity is not cheap/free.
 602 2010-12-10 05:49:37 <theymos> GPU miners mine profitably.
 603 2010-12-10 05:49:37 <spacemagic> electricity is not free
 604 2010-12-10 05:49:38 <OneFixt> well, technically profit for the governments which give those banks charters
 605 2010-12-10 05:50:02 <theymos> spacemagic: It is for some people. ArtForz gets free electricity in the winter where he lives.
 606 2010-12-10 05:50:50 <spacemagic> well, if you're making your electricity with solar power or wind etc.. then yes it is free
 607 2010-12-10 05:52:41 <spacemagic> Just trying to figure out the viability of the BTC as a currency
 608 2010-12-10 05:53:37 <theymos> Generation is always profitable for someone. If no one is making a profit, then no one will generate and the difficulty will go down.
 609 2010-12-10 05:54:24 <MT`AwAy> [14:45:40] <kiba> what make them so persistant? <- banks thinks the money you give them is theirs, and use it to make more money (or lose money)
 610 2010-12-10 05:55:24 * kiba would move away real fast from a fractional reserve bank
 611 2010-12-10 05:55:40 <spacemagic> meh, well, we will see won't we
 612 2010-12-10 05:55:53 spacemagic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101027124101])
 613 2010-12-10 05:56:14 <MT`AwAy> kiba: all "normal" banks are like that
 614 2010-12-10 05:56:35 <kiba> well bitcoin
 615 2010-12-10 05:56:42 <nanotube> if you want a full-reserve bank, it's actually pretty easy. just stick your money in a safe-deposit box.
 616 2010-12-10 05:57:10 <MT`AwAy> or under your mat
 617 2010-12-10 05:57:13 <kiba> or stick it in your local wallet
 618 2010-12-10 05:57:41 <nanotube> well, presumably if you use a bank at all, in a full-reserve framework, it is because you want to safeguard your money. because a bank is harder to rob than your mattress.
 619 2010-12-10 05:58:00 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 620 2010-12-10 06:03:58 <DemeGeek> I have 1 cent america in BTC!
 621 2010-12-10 06:06:31 <kiba> hmm, no download after I posted my new revision of Haruka Nakamoto
 622 2010-12-10 06:06:32 AAA_awright_ has joined
 623 2010-12-10 06:06:44 <kiba> don't feel like my fanbase is growing
 624 2010-12-10 06:08:18 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 625 2010-12-10 06:10:35 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
 626 2010-12-10 06:15:42 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: um
 627 2010-12-10 06:15:49 <Diablo-D3> you cant stick cash in a safe depoist box
 628 2010-12-10 06:16:02 <Diablo-D3> the government can and will confiscate it if they find out its there
 629 2010-12-10 06:17:00 pr0wler has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 630 2010-12-10 06:17:38 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: i doubt that.
 631 2010-12-10 06:18:06 <nanotube> [citation needed] :)
 632 2010-12-10 06:18:33 <MT`AwAy> anyway stacking cash is useless, it's just paper
 633 2010-12-10 06:21:26 Orbixx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 634 2010-12-10 06:21:38 Orbixx has joined
 635 2010-12-10 06:21:52 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, that's a separate issue. :) you could easily convert it into gold bars or something... insure them... stick in safe deposit box.
 636 2010-12-10 06:22:11 <nanotube> or... just bury in the yard. :)
 637 2010-12-10 06:22:26 <theymos> Can you insure things in safe deposit boxes? I know that FDIC doesn't cover them.
 638 2010-12-10 06:22:36 Orbixx has quit (Client Quit)
 639 2010-12-10 06:23:35 <nanotube> fdic doesn't. but you can take out insurance on any property you own, separately.
 640 2010-12-10 06:24:09 <theymos> I think I'm going to buy some silver next. It seems undervalued, and the supply is continually decreasing due to industrial use.
 641 2010-12-10 06:24:12 <nanotube> that said... if you have insurance... you have no reason to hide it in the bank. if it gets stolen, hey, you have insurance. :)
 642 2010-12-10 06:24:53 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: getting the insurance to pay can prove long and difficult
 643 2010-12-10 06:25:57 <nanotube> yes, but better than not having insurance.
 644 2010-12-10 06:26:22 <nanotube> theymos: mm well... what makes you think it is undervalued?
 645 2010-12-10 06:29:11 <theymos> Its value has not been increasing at a rate like gold, even though the supply is being diminished in a way that gold is not.
 646 2010-12-10 06:32:40 <kiba> once you add DNS registration, the market could really take off
 647 2010-12-10 06:33:16 <theymos> I doubt it. Who's going to replace their DNS nameservers (or even run extra software) to use alternative DNS?
 648 2010-12-10 06:38:13 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: actually, they have done it
 649 2010-12-10 06:38:24 <Diablo-D3> theymos: no, you cant insure things in safe deposit boxes
 650 2010-12-10 06:39:02 <theymos> Yeah; I suspected there was some law against it. There's a law against everything I would want to do...
 651 2010-12-10 06:44:22 <ne0futur> for those able to read spanish : http://www.clarin.com/mundo/estados_unidos/hackers-escalan-Internet-defender-WikiLeaks_0_387561286.html
 652 2010-12-10 06:48:10 DemeGeek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 653 2010-12-10 06:49:55 <maximi89> the unique way to get free BTC it's generating it right?
 654 2010-12-10 06:50:28 <MT`AwAy> [15:31:47] <kiba> once you add DNS registration, the market could really take off <- nobody cares about bitdns
 655 2010-12-10 06:50:30 <maximi89> and generate a BTC how many time requires?
 656 2010-12-10 06:50:43 <kiba> MT`AwAy: wtf?
 657 2010-12-10 06:50:51 <MT`AwAy> :D
 658 2010-12-10 06:52:19 <theymos> maximi89: Right. It's not free, though. It takes quite a bit of electricity and possibly hardware costs. Generating 50 BTC takes several weeks, at least -- often many months.
 659 2010-12-10 06:53:37 <maximi89> theymos: what's the difference between bitcoin and the bitcoind?
 660 2010-12-10 06:54:06 <theymos> bitcoind is the command-line version, without a GUI.
 661 2010-12-10 06:56:18 <maximi89> nice :D
 662 2010-12-10 06:56:20 <maximi89> thanks
 663 2010-12-10 07:00:32 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 664 2010-12-10 07:05:47 Sirius_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 665 2010-12-10 07:13:12 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 160000
 666 2010-12-10 07:13:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 19 hours, 21 minutes, and 28 seconds
 667 2010-12-10 07:18:53 <LobsterMan> maximi89
 668 2010-12-10 07:18:58 <maximi89> LobsterMan:
 669 2010-12-10 07:19:02 <LobsterMan> are you on windows or linux?
 670 2010-12-10 07:19:06 <maximi89> Linux
 671 2010-12-10 07:19:10 <maximi89> and you?
 672 2010-12-10 07:19:13 <LobsterMan> windows
 673 2010-12-10 07:19:23 <LobsterMan> was just going to suggest this if you are on windows
 674 2010-12-10 07:19:30 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/random/how-to-get-started-using-your-gpu-to-mine-for-bitcoins-on-windows
 675 2010-12-10 07:19:31 <LobsterMan> ;]
 676 2010-12-10 07:19:39 <maximi89> nice
 677 2010-12-10 07:21:14 <maximi89> in my case i can't do, because i'm using opensource drivers, so i don't have support for OpenCL/Cuda yet
 678 2010-12-10 07:21:26 <LobsterMan> <_<
 679 2010-12-10 07:22:19 <maximi89> the GPU lang
 680 2010-12-10 07:22:20 <maximi89> ahaha
 681 2010-12-10 07:23:55 <maximi89> going to suspend, hope bitcoin support this...
 682 2010-12-10 07:25:50 lmptfy has joined
 683 2010-12-10 07:26:57 <maximi89> ;;bc,calc 50
 684 2010-12-10 07:26:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 33 years, 19 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes, and 7 seconds
 685 2010-12-10 07:27:28 <necrodearia> nice!
 686 2010-12-10 07:27:53 <maximi89> :O
 687 2010-12-10 07:28:11 <maximi89> ;;bc,calc 1300
 688 2010-12-10 07:28:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1300 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 14 weeks, 5 days, 12 hours, 2 minutes, and 9 seconds
 689 2010-12-10 07:28:39 * maximi89 going to sleep after install last kernel :D
 690 2010-12-10 07:29:19 * kiba goes to sleep after working out why it is not working
 691 2010-12-10 07:30:40 Orbixx has joined
 692 2010-12-10 07:31:04 <necrodearia> kiba, If it is not working then how can you work it out?
 693 2010-12-10 07:31:39 <kiba> necrodearia: because I figure out and fixed it
 694 2010-12-10 07:34:07 davux is now known as Saccomano
 695 2010-12-10 07:34:43 Saccomano is now known as davux
 696 2010-12-10 07:43:15 maximi89 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 697 2010-12-10 07:49:28 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 698 2010-12-10 07:49:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96821 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1962 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11766.82189911
 699 2010-12-10 07:49:47 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 104000
 700 2010-12-10 07:49:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 104000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 days, 20 hours, 33 minutes, and 1 second
 701 2010-12-10 07:49:53 <MT`AwAy> next difficulty estimate is lower than current difficulty :o
 702 2010-12-10 07:49:57 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 40000
 703 2010-12-10 07:49:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 25 minutes, and 52 seconds
 704 2010-12-10 07:50:06 <MT`AwAy> heh, more than two weeks now :p
 705 2010-12-10 07:50:54 <LobsterMan> the estimate isn't really accurate at all for at least 36h or so
 706 2010-12-10 07:51:47 <MT`AwAy> yeah
 707 2010-12-10 07:55:29 <LobsterMan> hmm....i wonder if you could write a miner in vb
 708 2010-12-10 07:55:30 <LobsterMan> :D
 709 2010-12-10 07:56:56 <MT`AwAy> you wouldn't mine much
 710 2010-12-10 07:57:57 scibotic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 711 2010-12-10 08:27:17 <LobsterMan> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1218.snc4/157081_477702708725_774418725_5533206_2364735_n.jpg
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 724 2010-12-10 09:56:05 <MT`AwAy> mh
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 727 2010-12-10 10:00:58 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/random/give-me-my-pizza-now
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 730 2010-12-10 10:17:02 <MT`AwAy> whose bitcoin client do not empty bitcoin addresses when sending payments? oO
 731 2010-12-10 10:17:25 <MT`AwAy> and puts two "from" with the same addr?
 732 2010-12-10 10:17:31 <MT`AwAy> this sounds fishy
 733 2010-12-10 10:24:56 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 734 2010-12-10 10:31:25 <pere> hm, the command line client accept 1234asbd as the coin value 1234.  this caused me to send to the wrong address, as I messed up the arguments and ended up with the new address as the value - which was accepted by the client.
 735 2010-12-10 10:33:24 <pere> I believe it would be better if the command line client rejected '1234abcd' as a coin value.
 736 2010-12-10 10:33:50 darrob has joined
 737 2010-12-10 10:49:24 Rhonda has joined
 738 2010-12-10 10:50:03 <Rhonda> Hey. I am behind a rather restrictive firewall here and would like to run the bitcoind on linux. Which ports to the outside does it need and is it possible to tunnel them? Did someone do that already?
 739 2010-12-10 10:51:11 <dsg> Rhonda: You need to connect on port 8333 out. If you want to accept incoming connections you should forward the same port in, but it's not needed.
 740 2010-12-10 10:52:50 <Rhonda> In strace I also saw it wants to connect to some IRC server?
 741 2010-12-10 10:53:15 <Rhonda> So I only need to port-redirect 8333?
 742 2010-12-10 10:55:49 <dsg> Rhonda: IRC is used for bootstrapping, but there's also other methods. You don't strictly need to connect o IRC
 743 2010-12-10 10:56:25 <Rhonda> Then I leave this one blocked. :)
 744 2010-12-10 10:56:38 <Rhonda> What is the prcpassword used for? client/server communication, only locally?
 745 2010-12-10 10:58:47 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: yep, locally, for bitcoind
 746 2010-12-10 10:59:07 <MT`AwAy> you can make rpc listen on all ips by adding rpcallowip=*
 747 2010-12-10 10:59:38 <Rhonda> the 8333 is tcp, right?
 748 2010-12-10 10:59:41 <MT`AwAy> yep
 749 2010-12-10 10:59:57 <Rhonda> :~$ telnet 92.55.24.144 8333
 750 2010-12-10 10:59:57 <Rhonda> Trying 92.55.24.144...
 751 2010-12-10 10:59:57 <Rhonda> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
 752 2010-12-10 11:00:01 <Rhonda> is that expected?
 753 2010-12-10 11:00:21 <MT`AwAy> I don't think so
 754 2010-12-10 11:00:29 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes <- if you don't use IRC, you can use the nodes listed there
 755 2010-12-10 11:02:47 <Rhonda> oh, it does want to connect to 8333 not to one specific server but more-or-less randomly?
 756 2010-12-10 11:02:58 <Rhonda> Hmm, now it gets tricky. How do I ssh tunnel that.  %-)
 757 2010-12-10 11:03:35 <MT`AwAy> xD
 758 2010-12-10 11:04:06 <MT`AwAy> use ssh -D and configure socks proxy in bitcoin.conf
 759 2010-12-10 11:05:07 <Rhonda> Oh, never used the -D switch before. Can you guide me on that? What to put into bitcoin.conf?
 760 2010-12-10 11:05:20 <Rhonda> Or can I just "tsocks" wrap bitcoind?
 761 2010-12-10 11:06:00 <MT`AwAy> mh
 762 2010-12-10 11:06:13 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin has native support for socks proxy, would be a shame to tsocks it
 763 2010-12-10 11:06:32 <Rhonda> Right
 764 2010-12-10 11:06:34 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=running_bitcoin <- either with -proxy, or in the conf file with proxy=
 765 2010-12-10 11:09:54 <Rhonda> $ ./bitcoind -proxy=127.0.0.1:8333
 766 2010-12-10 11:09:54 <Rhonda> Bitcoin: Unable to bind to port 8333 on this computer.  Bitcoin is probably already running.
 767 2010-12-10 11:10:27 <Rhonda> I started ssh -D 8333
 768 2010-12-10 11:10:42 <Rhonda> And according to nestat it's listening on that port.
 769 2010-12-10 11:11:50 <dsg> You want to use a different port for the proxy.
 770 2010-12-10 11:17:03 <Rhonda> I see that it seems to connect in strace output now but it runs into "Ping timeout" responses
 771 2010-12-10 11:19:25 <Rhonda> oh
 772 2010-12-10 11:19:34 <Rhonda> getinfo seems to have got it started :)
 773 2010-12-10 11:23:24 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 200000
 774 2010-12-10 11:23:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes, and 10 seconds
 775 2010-12-10 11:23:59 <MT`AwAy> gentoo ebuild bumped
 776 2010-12-10 11:24:07 <pere> Grantt: is that statistic available from the command line client?
 777 2010-12-10 11:24:45 <doublec> what statistic?
 778 2010-12-10 11:25:18 <pere> doublec: how long it take to generate a block, on average.
 779 2010-12-10 11:26:53 <MT`AwAy> pere: you need to compute it based on the current difficulty (you get that from getinfo for example) and your hash/sec rate
 780 2010-12-10 11:26:58 <Rhonda> If I have a bitcoind running on one system and want to run another one on a different system, what things to I need to copy over to make them use the same account?
 781 2010-12-10 11:27:05 <Rhonda> Actually, how to I figure out my account ID? :)
 782 2010-12-10 11:27:09 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: you can't
 783 2010-12-10 11:27:13 <MT`AwAy> there's no account id
 784 2010-12-10 11:27:16 <pere> MT`AwAy: right.  hoped there was a command to get it out from the client, as it know both.
 785 2010-12-10 11:27:19 <MT`AwAy> and anyway you don't want to use the "same account"
 786 2010-12-10 11:27:54 <MT`AwAy> pere: the actual result is really random, and the duration provided by gribble is purely informative
 787 2010-12-10 11:28:14 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: So I transfer the coins from one system to the other in the end?
 788 2010-12-10 11:28:22 <pere> MT`AwAy: and?  should the client not provide purely informative information?
 789 2010-12-10 11:29:01 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: for example
 790 2010-12-10 11:29:29 <MT`AwAy> pere: more than informative it's relative, even if it says "one week" you could wait one month and get nothing
 791 2010-12-10 11:35:46 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: Then how do I figure out my bitcoin address?
 792 2010-12-10 11:36:21 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: with bitcoind, bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true
 793 2010-12-10 11:37:52 <Rhonda> That only works when I also can listen on port 8333, right?
 794 2010-12-10 11:38:01 <MT`AwAy> rpc uses another port
 795 2010-12-10 11:38:03 <MT`AwAy> 8332
 796 2010-12-10 11:38:30 * Rhonda . o O ( now I start to wonder where one does accquire a hopefully unique port number to use for such a service? )
 797 2010-12-10 11:39:25 <MT`AwAy> vi /etc/services
 798 2010-12-10 11:39:53 <MT`AwAy> in theory you're supposed to register your ports if they are going to be widely used, but for bitcoin it's still too small :p
 799 2010-12-10 11:40:24 * Rhonda settles for /usr/share/nmap/nmap-services rather. It's more complete. :)
 800 2010-12-10 11:40:31 <doublec> !google calc 1/(((2^256)-1)/((2^32)*12252.0347116)*200000*1000/(2^256))/(24*60*60)
 801 2010-12-10 11:40:47 Granttt has joined
 802 2010-12-10 11:40:49 <doublec> ;;!google calc 1/(((2^256)-1)/((2^32)*12252.0347116)*200000*1000/(2^256))/(24*60*60)
 803 2010-12-10 11:40:50 <gribble> Error: "!google" is not a valid command.
 804 2010-12-10 11:40:54 <doublec> ;;google calc 1/(((2^256)-1)/((2^32)*12252.0347116)*200000*1000/(2^256))/(24*60*60)
 805 2010-12-10 11:40:55 <gribble> (1 / (((((2^256) - 1) / ((2^32) * 12,252.0347116)) * 200,000 * 1,000) / (2^256))) / (24 * 60 * 60) = 3.04525975
 806 2010-12-10 11:41:00 <doublec> success!
 807 2010-12-10 11:41:15 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: I hope I'm not too annoying with my questions, just tell me when to stop please. Can get carried away too easily. :)
 808 2010-12-10 11:41:25 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: it's fine :)
 809 2010-12-10 11:41:37 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: (you can donate bitcoins to help people who help too btw)
 810 2010-12-10 11:41:53 <Rhonda> So actually compiling bitcoind, starting it and bitcoind setgenerate true is enough to get started, right?
 811 2010-12-10 11:42:07 <Rhonda> … after what amount of time could I expect to see something in getbalance?
 812 2010-12-10 11:42:16 <doublec> it depends on your hash rate
 813 2010-12-10 11:42:21 <doublec> ie. the power of your machine
 814 2010-12-10 11:42:26 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: after a really long while
 815 2010-12-10 11:42:30 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: I only can donate if I have something to donate. :P
 816 2010-12-10 11:42:39 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 2000
 817 2010-12-10 11:42:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 43 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds
 818 2010-12-10 11:42:45 <doublec> that long for an average laptop
 819 2010-12-10 11:42:53 <pere> Rhonda: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/ will give you some. :)
 820 2010-12-10 11:42:56 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 10000
 821 2010-12-10 11:42:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 28 seconds
 822 2010-12-10 11:42:59 <MT`AwAy> for a fast computer
 823 2010-12-10 11:43:23 nelisky has joined
 824 2010-12-10 11:43:26 <Rhonda> pere: For that I would need to set up incoming ports, which I definitely don't want to do at this spot.
 825 2010-12-10 11:43:39 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: no you don't :p
 826 2010-12-10 11:43:45 <pere> Rhonda: worked for me without it.
 827 2010-12-10 11:43:51 <Rhonda> Uh?
 828 2010-12-10 11:43:57 <Rhonda> Where would it transfer it to?
 829 2010-12-10 11:44:04 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: in the blocks you are downloading
 830 2010-12-10 11:44:08 <pere> I'm behind NAT, and still it works.
 831 2010-12-10 11:44:16 <Rhonda> … which brings me back to my firmer question: How.. oh, download. :)
 832 2010-12-10 11:44:18 <doublec> You give it in address you want the coins to go it
 833 2010-12-10 11:44:24 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: as long as you're connected to some peers you'll get your transactions
 834 2010-12-10 11:44:27 <MT`AwAy> it's the thing with P2P
 835 2010-12-10 11:44:29 <Rhonda> "then enter your Bitcoin Receiving address"
 836 2010-12-10 11:44:36 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 837 2010-12-10 11:44:53 <Rhonda> I have no receiving address. Or do they mean email address?
 838 2010-12-10 11:45:15 <pere> Rhonda: bitcoind getnewaddress give you an address.
 839 2010-12-10 11:45:43 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true
 840 2010-12-10 11:45:47 <doublec> you'll need to have caught up with downloading the current block chain before you see it
 841 2010-12-10 11:45:53 <doublec> bitcoind getblockcount
 842 2010-12-10 11:46:03 <doublec> that'll tell you how much of the chain you've got so far
 843 2010-12-10 11:46:07 <Rhonda> pere: That gives me a new address each time. Couldn't I abuse the service through that?
 844 2010-12-10 11:46:18 <pere> Rhonda: sure. :)
 845 2010-12-10 11:46:19 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: your addresses only exist locally
 846 2010-12-10 11:46:58 <pere> Rhonda: you can get one free transaction per IP address, it seems.
 847 2010-12-10 11:47:50 <MT`AwAy> pere: freebitcoins also put cookies
 848 2010-12-10 11:47:58 <Rhonda> pere: that site is ipv6 enabled. go figure
 849 2010-12-10 11:48:06 <pere> MT`AwAy: right.
 850 2010-12-10 11:48:15 <MT`AwAy> and there's a rate limit too I think
 851 2010-12-10 11:48:20 <pere> Rhonda: I figure most people are trustworthy. :)
 852 2010-12-10 11:48:39 <MT`AwAy> pere: maybe not
 853 2010-12-10 11:48:41 <Rhonda> pere: Right. That's why we don't receive any spam mails. :)
 854 2010-12-10 11:49:11 <Rhonda> pere: I think you confuse trustworthy gullible. :)
 855 2010-12-10 11:49:26 <pere> Rhonda: because most people are trustworthy?  I thought it was because there are a few rotten apples. :)
 856 2010-12-10 11:50:20 Grantt has joined
 857 2010-12-10 11:50:24 <Rhonda> *sigh*
 858 2010-12-10 11:50:40 <Rhonda> once entered the wrong data into the captcha it stumbles into the rate limit exceeded
 859 2010-12-10 11:50:54 <Rhonda> so no free cookies for me because I failed to give the address right ahead. %-/
 860 2010-12-10 11:51:47 <pere> is https://www.bitcoinmarket.com/ still operational?  No transactions listed on http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/ and not possible to register as a user.
 861 2010-12-10 11:51:52 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: gimme your bitcoin addr
 862 2010-12-10 11:52:33 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: 1DyP4nYGv6SGVkveUQgoytv8CVoY6BisrW is the one that has at least "Your Address" in account and label part :)
 863 2010-12-10 11:52:58 <MT`AwAy> 417d28c2c9b8419db3df28faacdae77c036e271122f917ccb8ea41da78e9176f
 864 2010-12-10 11:53:05 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: you just got some bitcoins ;)
 865 2010-12-10 11:53:39 <MT`AwAy> wait a few blocks for it to be confirmed
 866 2010-12-10 11:53:39 <MT`AwAy> :)
 867 2010-12-10 11:53:42 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 868 2010-12-10 11:54:20 <MT`AwAy> (one block every ~10 minutes)
 869 2010-12-10 11:54:24 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/ <- latest blocks
 870 2010-12-10 11:54:39 <Rhonda> Can I somehow change the account and label names?
 871 2010-12-10 11:54:49 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: yes, you can
 872 2010-12-10 11:55:06 <MT`AwAy> (I think)
 873 2010-12-10 11:55:13 <Rhonda> ah, through setaccount
 874 2010-12-10 11:55:41 <MT`AwAy> :)
 875 2010-12-10 11:59:50 <pere> is there a sensible way to use bitcoin as micropayment for reading articles.  in such setting, it is not acceptable to wait 10 minutes to see if the payment was valid.
 876 2010-12-10 12:00:14 <MT`AwAy> pere: only if you don't care if transactions are really valid
 877 2010-12-10 12:00:21 <MT`AwAy> for reading articles it shouldn't be much of a problem
 878 2010-12-10 12:00:26 <MT`AwAy> then you can accept unconfirmed transactions :)
 879 2010-12-10 12:00:30 <Rhonda> Hmm, if 10 transactions of a block result in 2.668 kb size, does that scale in the end when the system gets widely accepted?
 880 2010-12-10 12:00:42 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: we'll think about it next year
 881 2010-12-10 12:01:30 <MT`AwAy> mh
 882 2010-12-10 12:01:35 <MT`AwAy> more than 10 minutes since last block
 883 2010-12-10 12:01:43 <MT`AwAy> at 12k difficulty things are less smooth, figures
 884 2010-12-10 12:03:00 <Rhonda> Can the generation part work completely detached, without network access? For a few days at least?
 885 2010-12-10 12:03:11 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: no
 886 2010-12-10 12:03:24 <MT`AwAy> generation is a lottery, and fully random
 887 2010-12-10 12:03:40 <Rhonda> ah
 888 2010-12-10 12:03:47 xelister has joined
 889 2010-12-10 12:03:56 <MT`AwAy> there's just a tuning value called "difficulty" to avoid things from going too fast
 890 2010-12-10 12:03:57 <bd_> Well, you can _run_ it, but you need to have the latest block when generating, so in about ten minutes when the next block comes out, your work becomes useless unless you get the new latest block
 891 2010-12-10 12:04:02 <xelister> 12/10/10 04:00 generated 50.00
 892 2010-12-10 12:04:04 <xelister>  ERROR: BitcoinMiner : generated block is stale
 893 2010-12-10 12:04:05 <xelister> in debug log
 894 2010-12-10 12:04:21 <xelister> so did my block won or not, what happened here
 895 2010-12-10 12:04:47 <MT`AwAy> xelister: someone else got the block at the same time as you maybe?
 896 2010-12-10 12:05:04 <MT`AwAy> I don't know this error but that's the kind of thing it could mean
 897 2010-12-10 12:05:07 <bd_> or a bug in the miner program
 898 2010-12-10 12:05:39 <MT`AwAy> likely too
 899 2010-12-10 12:06:46 RazielZ has joined
 900 2010-12-10 12:07:01 <xelister> http://pastebin.ca/2015504
 901 2010-12-10 12:07:27 <xelister> the generated slution was: nonce=218557847 G=45549 H=0
 902 2010-12-10 12:07:30 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: anyway at block 96847 you'll have some coins
 903 2010-12-10 12:07:42 <xelister> and hash < target... so all looks ok I guess
 904 2010-12-10 12:08:06 <xelister> could it mean networking problem that bitcoind was unable to pass solution to network?
 905 2010-12-10 12:08:19 <MT`AwAy> xelister: could mean someone else got the hash a few seconds before you
 906 2010-12-10 12:08:34 <xelister> and how to see in blockexplorer is mine block above used or not
 907 2010-12-10 12:08:55 <MT`AwAy> xelister: just look if you got +50 btc or not
 908 2010-12-10 12:08:59 <doublec> It might be longer if Rhonda hasn't got the complete block chain yet
 909 2010-12-10 12:09:01 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: "too small (must be 6+)" from the blockexplorer :)
 910 2010-12-10 12:09:19 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: what?
 911 2010-12-10 12:09:49 <doublec> Rhonda, you can see it immediately with: bitcoind getreceivedbyaddress 1DyP4nYGv6SGVkveUQgoytv8CVoY6BisrW 0
 912 2010-12-10 12:09:58 <xelister> MT`AwAy: it will take 24 hours
 913 2010-12-10 12:10:05 <xelister> 20
 914 2010-12-10 12:10:06 <Rhonda> Oh. i searched for 86847 in the blockexplorer form, now I figured what you meant. :)
 915 2010-12-10 12:10:36 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: block 86847 hasn't been solved yet
 916 2010-12-10 12:10:45 <Rhonda> Yes, found out now. :)
 917 2010-12-10 12:10:58 <xelister> nope, I dont have any such (maturing) 59 btc :/
 918 2010-12-10 12:11:04 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: btw bitcoind getinfo shows which value for "blocks" for you?
 919 2010-12-10 12:11:13 <MT`AwAy> xelister: so someone else was faster than you
 920 2010-12-10 12:11:20 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: 90107
 921 2010-12-10 12:11:41 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: ok so you don't have the full blockchain yet
 922 2010-12-10 12:11:45 <MT`AwAy> so you're not generating either :)
 923 2010-12-10 12:11:49 <MT`AwAy> need to wait a bit more :p
 924 2010-12-10 12:11:51 <Rhonda> How big is it?
 925 2010-12-10 12:11:59 <MT`AwAy> 96846 right now
 926 2010-12-10 12:12:02 <MT`AwAy> soon 96847
 927 2010-12-10 12:12:13 <MT`AwAy> every 10 minutes or so it does +1
 928 2010-12-10 12:12:19 <Rhonda> Oh, feeling silly now for that question.  %-)
 929 2010-12-10 12:12:21 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/ <- you have block numbers + timestamp there
 930 2010-12-10 12:14:25 <MT`AwAy> ok gpu miners, wtf are you doing? xD
 931 2010-12-10 12:14:33 <MT`AwAy> where's the next block? XD
 932 2010-12-10 12:14:44 <Rhonda> Oh. I think I figure now: Each new block is a.) the transction of the generation amount to the lucky person, and b.) contains all other transactions that did happen since the last block over the network?
 933 2010-12-10 12:15:04 <pere> is it possible to do traffic analysis on bitcoin transactions to see how money flow in the network of bitcoin users?
 934 2010-12-10 12:15:13 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: yep
 935 2010-12-10 12:15:22 <MT`AwAy> pere: it's already listed on bitcoinwatch.com
 936 2010-12-10 12:15:24 <Rhonda> \o/
 937 2010-12-10 12:15:51 <MT`AwAy> pere: and you don't need to analyze traffic for that, just look at blocks
 938 2010-12-10 12:16:54 <pere> MT`AwAy: traffic analysis is to get more information out of it, not to just look at transactions.
 939 2010-12-10 12:17:06 <MT`AwAy> pere: you'll get the same infos
 940 2010-12-10 12:17:09 mtgox has joined
 941 2010-12-10 12:17:18 <pere> did anyone try to graph and visualize transactions?
 942 2010-12-10 12:17:33 <MT`AwAy> pere: what do you want to see? :D
 943 2010-12-10 12:17:35 <Rhonda> pere: Do you need more like which is available on http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000002fb82a487effbe89891d53d94e07c475c90cdc76ffdd506825c7e and then tracking back through the "Previous block" links?
 944 2010-12-10 12:18:04 <pere> MT`AwAy: for example, how users are clustered together by transactions.
 945 2010-12-10 12:18:16 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: when block 96847 is out you'll see your transaction with http://blockexplorer.com/tx/417d28c2c9b8419db3df28faacdae77c036e271122f917ccb8ea41da78e9176f
 946 2010-12-10 12:18:24 <MT`AwAy> pere: you don't see "users"
 947 2010-12-10 12:18:52 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: You know the hash already for it? how come?
 948 2010-12-10 12:18:54 <MT`AwAy> pere: each user has many bitcoin addresses, and you can't know which addresses are owned by the same user
 949 2010-12-10 12:18:58 <pere> MT`AwAy: not directly, perhaps, but I suspect they can be spotted using patters.
 950 2010-12-10 12:19:01 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: because I made the transaction
 951 2010-12-10 12:19:14 <MT`AwAy> pere: wouldn't be easy
 952 2010-12-10 12:19:28 <Rhonda> oh, right
 953 2010-12-10 12:19:33 <MT`AwAy> pere: if you want to develop that, go on, bitcoin is still young :)
 954 2010-12-10 12:19:46 <pere> which bring me back to my original question on traffic analysis and visualization. :)
 955 2010-12-10 12:20:05 <MT`AwAy> pere: you won't have more infos via traffic analysis than from the blocks
 956 2010-12-10 12:20:20 <MT`AwAy> transactions are stored as is in the blocks, they are exactly the same as what was received
 957 2010-12-10 12:21:05 <doublec> an enormous .dot visualisatin of incoming and outgoings for all addresses would be interesting
 958 2010-12-10 12:21:10 <Rhonda> pere: Given that people can do a "getnewaddress" for every single transaction they plan it might be not really possible.
 959 2010-12-10 12:21:16 <doublec> to see if there's a few 'big' volume addresses that are the eventual recipients
 960 2010-12-10 12:21:21 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: not only they can, but it's recommanded
 961 2010-12-10 12:21:23 <doublec> probably  a mtgox or mybitcoin account
 962 2010-12-10 12:21:37 <MT`AwAy> doublec: mtgox and mybitcoin have dozens of addresses
 963 2010-12-10 12:21:57 <MT`AwAy> the only "spots" you may see is if someone sends a big amount of bitcoins to a single addr
 964 2010-12-10 12:22:01 <doublec> MT`AwAy, it would show though if there is an address that gets the results of transfers to those addresses
 965 2010-12-10 12:22:10 <MT`AwAy> oh
 966 2010-12-10 12:22:13 <MT`AwAy> block solved
 967 2010-12-10 12:22:25 <MT`AwAy> now need to wait for blockexplorer to be updated
 968 2010-12-10 12:22:35 <MT`AwAy> [21:21:06] <doublec> MT`AwAy, it would show though if there is an address that gets the results of transfers to those addresses <- ?
 969 2010-12-10 12:22:59 <MT`AwAy> each transfer to mtgox is done to a different addr
 970 2010-12-10 12:23:07 <MT`AwAy> when you want to add funds to mtgox you get an unique addr
 971 2010-12-10 12:23:41 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000a9c25f6d614a15b5b150262aacacaa9cca328852090869020836 <- you can see your address
 972 2010-12-10 12:24:05 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/417d28c2c9b8419db3df28faacdae77c036e271122f917ccb8ea41da78e9176f <- the transaction
 973 2010-12-10 12:25:13 <Rhonda> "no such transaction"
 974 2010-12-10 12:25:19 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: ctrl+shift+R
 975 2010-12-10 12:25:27 <MT`AwAy> (you need to force refresh cache)
 976 2010-12-10 12:25:43 <Rhonda> right, thought I did before stating so. Strange
 977 2010-12-10 12:25:59 <MT`AwAy> you see
 978 2010-12-10 12:26:00 <MT`AwAy> two in, two out
 979 2010-12-10 12:26:01 <MT`AwAy> :)
 980 2010-12-10 12:26:21 <Rhonda> Why two?
 981 2010-12-10 12:26:25 <MT`AwAy> two out so someone wouldn't know which one was the receiving end (the other one is an address my bitcoind generated for this transaction)
 982 2010-12-10 12:26:43 <MT`AwAy> that's how the official bitcoin client works
 983 2010-12-10 12:26:54 <Rhonda> a
 984 2010-12-10 12:26:55 <Rhonda> h
 985 2010-12-10 12:27:07 <Rhonda> so pere's graphs would come out as totally useless :)
 986 2010-12-10 12:27:18 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 987 2010-12-10 12:27:20 <Rhonda> money washing to the extreme
 988 2010-12-10 12:27:28 <MT`AwAy> :p
 989 2010-12-10 12:27:38 <MT`AwAy> (and the two in are both mine too)
 990 2010-12-10 12:28:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway
 991 2010-12-10 12:28:08 <MT`AwAy> now you have 1 BTC :D
 992 2010-12-10 12:28:18 <MT`AwAy> you can spend it on https://smsz.net/ for example ;)
 993 2010-12-10 12:28:49 <Rhonda> I only "have" it when the block hits my client. It's at 93102 now. :)
 994 2010-12-10 12:28:58 Xunie has joined
 995 2010-12-10 12:28:59 Xunie has quit (Changing host)
 996 2010-12-10 12:28:59 Xunie has joined
 997 2010-12-10 12:29:43 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: heh, thought it'd be a bit faster :p
 998 2010-12-10 12:30:20 <Rhonda> traffic shaping over here, that's mostly why
 999 2010-12-10 12:31:33 <MT`AwAy> 'k
1000 2010-12-10 12:38:07 <Rhonda> \o/ - balance 1.0, blocks 96859
1001 2010-12-10 12:40:12 <MT`AwAy> :D
1002 2010-12-10 12:40:28 <MT`AwAy> your first bitcoin ;)
1003 2010-12-10 12:41:12 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1004 2010-12-10 12:43:08 wizeman has joined
1005 2010-12-10 12:45:15 <MT`AwAy> mh
1006 2010-12-10 12:45:23 <MT`AwAy> I'm having a bug with bitcoin 0.3.18
1007 2010-12-10 12:45:27 <MT`AwAy> may have to downgrade :o
1008 2010-12-10 12:48:35 <MT`AwAy> somehow when I access bitcoind with curl+ssl, it freezes
1009 2010-12-10 12:48:58 <MT`AwAy> I'll try without ssl...
1010 2010-12-10 12:53:22 <MT`AwAy> without ssl seems fine... :(
1011 2010-12-10 12:53:32 <MT`AwAy> I'll downgrade to 0.3.17 then~
1012 2010-12-10 12:56:55 <MT`AwAy> downgrading works again
1013 2010-12-10 13:00:06 Zarutian has joined
1014 2010-12-10 13:04:47 cdecker has joined
1015 2010-12-10 13:05:52 gavinandresen has joined
1016 2010-12-10 13:08:38 <cdecker> Would there be interest in having a bot announce the new posts on the Forum?
1017 2010-12-10 13:10:19 <MT`AwAy> cdecker: I don't think so
1018 2010-12-10 13:10:32 <cdecker> Too bad
1019 2010-12-10 13:10:41 * MT`AwAy pokes tcatm 
1020 2010-12-10 13:11:17 <cdecker> Anyway I'm still not convinced we should not include a reference id into transactions
1021 2010-12-10 13:11:36 <cdecker> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2183.0
1022 2010-12-10 13:12:30 <MT`AwAy> mh
1023 2010-12-10 13:12:45 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy:  RE: curl and ssl:  I bet you have:     rpcssl=true   in your bitcoin.conf
1024 2010-12-10 13:12:59 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: yep, it changed in 0.3.18 ?
1025 2010-12-10 13:13:21 <gavinandresen> (correct syntax is rcpssl=1, I made the command/option file parsing consistent in 0.3.18)
1026 2010-12-10 13:13:41 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2162.0 <- contained no info about this
1027 2010-12-10 13:14:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway then why does it blocks all other bitcoin calls? bitcoin can only handle one rpc call at a time?
1028 2010-12-10 13:14:43 <gavinandresen> Well, bitcoin CAN only handle one rcp call at a time, but that's not what you're running into with rpcssl=true
1029 2010-12-10 13:15:02 <MT`AwAy> yep, but the "freeze" didn't help debugging
1030 2010-12-10 13:15:23 <gavinandresen> rpcssl=true is interpreted as rpcssl=0 in 0.3.18, and you're trying to connect with ssl, so the connection fails.
1031 2010-12-10 13:15:28 <MT`AwAy> if my process was getting frozen but bitcoin still responded correctly I'd be looking at the right thing
1032 2010-12-10 13:15:37 <MT`AwAy> yep, it doesn't fail
1033 2010-12-10 13:15:47 <MT`AwAy> just my curl waiting for the server's SSL Hello
1034 2010-12-10 13:15:48 <tcatm> MT`AwAy: hey
1035 2010-12-10 13:15:51 <MT`AwAy> waiting forever it means
1036 2010-12-10 13:15:53 <MT`AwAy> seems*
1037 2010-12-10 13:16:13 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: it means you could do denial of service by opening connections to people's rpc port if publicly available and never send anything there
1038 2010-12-10 13:16:15 Bitcoinz has joined
1039 2010-12-10 13:16:15 <gavinandresen> OK, right, you never get the SSL Hello and it fails EVENTUALLY when it times out.....
1040 2010-12-10 13:16:18 <MT`AwAy> tcatm: you send me a PM
1041 2010-12-10 13:16:23 <tcatm> yep
1042 2010-12-10 13:16:25 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: any timeout in bitcoin ?
1043 2010-12-10 13:16:47 <MT`AwAy> my process was frozen for 5 minutes when I killed it
1044 2010-12-10 13:16:49 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy: good question, I'll check
1045 2010-12-10 13:17:32 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=rpcssl <- might want to edit this (it says to add "rpcssl=true")
1046 2010-12-10 13:18:18 <gavinandresen> D'Oh!  Thought I got them all....
1047 2010-12-10 13:18:27 <MT`AwAy> I edited it just now
1048 2010-12-10 13:18:28 <MT`AwAy> :p
1049 2010-12-10 13:18:41 <gavinandresen> Thanks
1050 2010-12-10 13:19:17 <MT`AwAy> ok, got lots of nodes to update, again
1051 2010-12-10 13:19:25 <MT`AwAy> tcatm: ok for a query talk?
1052 2010-12-10 13:19:39 <tcatm> sure
1053 2010-12-10 13:20:58 <MT`AwAy> tcatm: if you can, put a ~15 secs timeout when reading RPC query
1054 2010-12-10 13:20:59 <MT`AwAy> er
1055 2010-12-10 13:21:05 <MT`AwAy> not tcatm , gavinandresen: if you can, put a ~15 secs timeout when reading RPC query
1056 2010-12-10 13:22:29 <gavinandresen> gotta get kids to school, I'll dig more into OpenSSL handshaking timeouts when I'm back....
1057 2010-12-10 13:23:03 <MT`AwAy> thanks
1058 2010-12-10 13:23:09 <MT`AwAy> (for normal queries too, it'd be nice)
1059 2010-12-10 13:33:13 <doublec> cdecker, there's already one in #bc-news
1060 2010-12-10 13:36:11 <Bitcoinz> hello coiners
1061 2010-12-10 13:36:57 <cdecker> That should help me keep up with the latest threads ^^
1062 2010-12-10 13:37:02 <cdecker> Hi Bitcoinz
1063 2010-12-10 13:37:17 <Bitcoinz> hi cdecker
1064 2010-12-10 13:38:22 <Bitcoinz> are ypu a bitcoin specialist?
1065 2010-12-10 13:38:36 <Bitcoinz> you*
1066 2010-12-10 13:39:09 <cdecker> One in the making I'd say
1067 2010-12-10 13:39:11 <cdecker> :D
1068 2010-12-10 13:39:26 <cdecker> But there are people on the channel that really know their stuff
1069 2010-12-10 13:39:35 <Bitcoinz> i am dutch and running/supporting bitcoin and i am quite new to this
1070 2010-12-10 13:39:36 <cdecker> Just go ahead and ask
1071 2010-12-10 13:40:46 <Bitcoinz> well i am running the node
1072 2010-12-10 13:41:15 <Bitcoinz> with status it says confirmations...what does that mean?
1073 2010-12-10 13:41:40 <Bitcoinz> it is counting up
1074 2010-12-10 13:41:42 <cdecker> Bitcoin uses so called blocks to confirm transactions
1075 2010-12-10 13:42:13 <cdecker> Once at least 1 confirmation is found for your transaction it is safe to assume that it went through
1076 2010-12-10 13:42:51 <Bitcoinz> i have 326 confirmations now with 1 transaction
1077 2010-12-10 13:42:59 <cdecker> Basically each node in the network works as an advocate for transactions to avoid double spending
1078 2010-12-10 13:43:11 <cdecker> Yup and it will continue counting up
1079 2010-12-10 13:43:26 <cdecker> The older a transaction the more confirmation it'll have
1080 2010-12-10 13:43:38 <Bitcoinz> alright i understand it now
1081 2010-12-10 13:44:24 <Bitcoinz> i forwarded port 8333 and i have 40-70 connections, is that good?
1082 2010-12-10 13:44:40 <Bitcoinz> hashspeed up too 2000
1083 2010-12-10 13:44:41 <cdecker> That's more than enough I'd say
1084 2010-12-10 13:44:55 <cdecker> That's also good for a CPU miner
1085 2010-12-10 13:45:00 <Bitcoinz> :)
1086 2010-12-10 13:45:40 <cdecker> ;;bc,calc 2000
1087 2010-12-10 13:45:40 <Bitcoinz> its running on my laptop
1088 2010-12-10 13:45:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 43 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds
1089 2010-12-10 13:46:06 <cdecker> So the probability of generating a block worth 50 Bitcoins is just under a year :)
1090 2010-12-10 13:46:16 <Bitcoinz> lolzz
1091 2010-12-10 13:46:40 <Bitcoinz> thats a lot of time lol
1092 2010-12-10 13:46:40 <cdecker> It's not really much, but you might be interested in joining a Mining Pool
1093 2010-12-10 13:46:57 <cdecker> You won't get more, but it will be better distributed over time
1094 2010-12-10 13:47:03 <doublec> ,,pool
1095 2010-12-10 13:47:03 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1096 2010-12-10 13:47:24 <doublec> the pools currently at a hash rate of 185,000 or so
1097 2010-12-10 13:47:32 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 185000
1098 2010-12-10 13:47:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 185000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 7 hours, and 43 seconds
1099 2010-12-10 13:47:59 <xelister> what would happened if IRC of bitcoin is taken out by gov or other mobs?
1100 2010-12-10 13:48:06 <Bitcoinz> thats interesting information :)
1101 2010-12-10 13:48:08 <xelister> the IRC used as tracker/seed
1102 2010-12-10 13:48:45 <doublec> bitcoin would connect to nodes directly
1103 2010-12-10 13:48:49 <cdecker> Well we'd just replace it with something else
1104 2010-12-10 13:48:56 <doublec> you can run without connecting to irc already
1105 2010-12-10 13:49:07 <Bitcoinz> i am going to examine the link :)
1106 2010-12-10 13:49:15 <cdecker> I'd like to see a bootstrapping by Bittorrent be implemented
1107 2010-12-10 13:49:56 <doublec> see here: https://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
1108 2010-12-10 13:49:58 <xelister> do you have some long-uptimes nodes with static IPs?
1109 2010-12-10 13:50:11 <xelister> we could exchange our IPs and then use it as  bitcoind -addnode 1.2.3.4
1110 2010-12-10 13:50:12 <doublec> yes, that last link I pasted
1111 2010-12-10 13:50:14 <cdecker> Actually we do
1112 2010-12-10 13:50:32 <cdecker> exactly xelister
1113 2010-12-10 13:50:40 <xelister> ok, so what are your nodes? :)
1114 2010-12-10 13:50:53 <doublec> the pool miner is also a long uptime node
1115 2010-12-10 13:50:55 <xelister> also, direct connection to biggest-generators will raduce a bit probability of tree collision, right?
1116 2010-12-10 13:51:05 <xelister> doublec: so what is it's ip to use?
1117 2010-12-10 13:51:16 * xelister 193.25.1.141 - 90% uptime
1118 2010-12-10 13:51:24 <doublec> xelister, 173.255.205.10
1119 2010-12-10 13:51:45 <xelister> ArtForz: can you give IP of your miner (static/open port) so we can directly connect for better connectivity?
1120 2010-12-10 13:52:18 <xelister> doublec: added
1121 2010-12-10 13:59:06 cdecker has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1122 2010-12-10 14:03:15 Granttt has joined
1123 2010-12-10 14:03:51 * Zarutian encourages people to donate to 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt (which incidently is a btc address of the Electronic Frontier Foundation ;)
1124 2010-12-10 14:05:37 <MT`AwAy> wow, they received a total of 2340 btc
1125 2010-12-10 14:05:55 <kiba> crazy huh
1126 2010-12-10 14:06:04 <kiba> and I thought bitcoiners would forget to donate to EFF
1127 2010-12-10 14:06:22 <doublec> interesting, the block explorer is indexed by google
1128 2010-12-10 14:06:41 <doublec> makes it easy to find out about addresses via google
1129 2010-12-10 14:06:54 <MT`AwAy> yep
1130 2010-12-10 14:07:37 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1131 2010-12-10 14:07:40 <MT`AwAy> hope they have more chance than me to transform bitcoins to something you can buy food with
1132 2010-12-10 14:07:42 <doublec> nice to see money is coming out of the eff address too
1133 2010-12-10 14:07:51 <doublec> so they're (or someone) actually using it
1134 2010-12-10 14:08:58 <doublec> ,,eff
1135 2010-12-10 14:08:59 <gribble> Error: "eff" is not a valid command.
1136 2010-12-10 14:09:01 <MT`AwAy> hell, let me donate to EFF too
1137 2010-12-10 14:09:20 <MT`AwAy> done
1138 2010-12-10 14:09:22 <kiba> blah, if only people download my artwork yesterday
1139 2010-12-10 14:09:25 <MT`AwAy> 3b98b6419bd5e81526953b98cf82409c766df9cb0890a6de49d81cff8bf68f8b :p
1140 2010-12-10 14:09:36 <MT`AwAy> kiba: just /nick EFF and you'll have geek giving you money
1141 2010-12-10 14:09:42 <kiba> lol
1142 2010-12-10 14:09:51 <MT`AwAy> I just donated 100 BTC to EFF :p
1143 2010-12-10 14:10:40 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
1144 2010-12-10 14:10:41 <gribble> 96856
1145 2010-12-10 14:11:44 <MT`AwAy> anyone want bitcoins btw?
1146 2010-12-10 14:11:51 <johndrinkwater> i’d love some
1147 2010-12-10 14:12:01 <MT`AwAy> johndrinkwater: addr?
1148 2010-12-10 14:12:02 <kiba> bitcoin isn't artifically scarce
1149 2010-12-10 14:12:13 <kiba> I can copy my wallet a milllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiion of time
1150 2010-12-10 14:12:26 <MT`AwAy> johndrinkwater: 006e1c64317c04ce3eea97e5d7edca0afe885abcbd0343c22fdf0d692615078d
1151 2010-12-10 14:12:43 <johndrinkwater> yeah well, Atom systems arent the best at generating :)
1152 2010-12-10 14:12:44 <Zarutian> MT`AwAy: I can us a 0.01 (at 1MYWGLJfR7W1tMez8ZVkgo8MR8o9sWJpSi
1153 2010-12-10 14:12:50 <johndrinkwater> ta MT`AwAy!
1154 2010-12-10 14:13:03 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1155 2010-12-10 14:13:05 <Zarutian> s/us/use/
1156 2010-12-10 14:13:10 <MT`AwAy> Zarutian: f6f090ee240706dd0aca13577c91ef9b651b4e25fcdc2d8a75ac4b344fb2735d
1157 2010-12-10 14:13:17 <MT`AwAy> ok, end of giveaway
1158 2010-12-10 14:13:17 <MT`AwAy> xD
1159 2010-12-10 14:13:34 <johndrinkwater> sweet, thats the largest i’ve had my wallet. :/
1160 2010-12-10 14:13:52 <Zarutian> MT`AwAy: Wow! Many thanks!
1161 2010-12-10 14:13:59 * Zarutian bows
1162 2010-12-10 14:14:07 wizeman has joined
1163 2010-12-10 14:14:08 <MT`AwAy> johndrinkwater: use some on http://smsz.net/ if you want
1164 2010-12-10 14:14:08 <MT`AwAy> xD
1165 2010-12-10 14:14:53 <dsg> Zarutian: I sent you a coin to jump-start the .is bitcoin economy ;)
1166 2010-12-10 14:15:19 <johndrinkwater> looking at block explorer, some might balk at the lack? of privacy in transactions. I suppose its a problem with people using a single hash for donations..
1167 2010-12-10 14:15:53 <MT`AwAy> johndrinkwater: I'm thinking about opening a donation handling service that will show a different donation address for each user
1168 2010-12-10 14:16:12 <johndrinkwater> I can see Simon Phipps donated to the command line podcast, for instance
1169 2010-12-10 14:16:26 <Zarutian> dsg: ekki veitir af (en/meaning only: it needs all the encouragement it can get)
1170 2010-12-10 14:17:27 <doublec> you can use mtgox or mybitcoin to work around the privacy issue
1171 2010-12-10 14:17:33 <doublec> send all the coins to them
1172 2010-12-10 14:17:49 <MT`AwAy> doublec: you can start by using more than one bitcoin address to receive bitcoins
1173 2010-12-10 14:17:52 <doublec> then send them back from there to your wallet
1174 2010-12-10 14:18:05 <MT`AwAy> btw block generation has slowed down quite a bit
1175 2010-12-10 14:18:16 <MT`AwAy> bitcoind move
1176 2010-12-10 14:18:17 <MT`AwAy> :D
1177 2010-12-10 14:18:19 <doublec> MT`AwAy, yes but that'd be problematic for sites that show the address on every page
1178 2010-12-10 14:18:28 <doublec> since it creates tons of addresses in your wallet
1179 2010-12-10 14:18:33 <MT`AwAy> doublec: for this kind of case, make it a set of addresses
1180 2010-12-10 14:18:37 <Bitcoinz> what is the first step i should take to join the pool? install this: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/bitcoin-remote-20101205-src.zip?
1181 2010-12-10 14:18:41 <MT`AwAy> and stop showing them when they receive coins
1182 2010-12-10 14:18:47 <doublec> Bitcoinz, what OS?
1183 2010-12-10 14:18:57 <MT`AwAy> ie, randomly show 10 addresses, and when one receive coins, replace it with a new one
1184 2010-12-10 14:19:13 <Bitcoinz> ehm...windows 7 home premium
1185 2010-12-10 14:19:15 <doublec> MT`AwAy, yeah that's an approach too
1186 2010-12-10 14:19:30 <MT`AwAy> doublec: that's why I'm considering doing this kind of service :)
1187 2010-12-10 14:19:36 <doublec> Bitcoinz, follow the steps under 'Windows usage'
1188 2010-12-10 14:19:46 <doublec> Bitcoinz, you want this: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/bitcoin-remote-20101205-win32bin.zip
1189 2010-12-10 14:20:15 <Bitcoinz> yeah i downloaded that
1190 2010-12-10 14:20:29 <Zarutian> or poorsman one mix: close bitcoin, rename wallet.dat to wallet1.dat, reopen bitcoin, make a few new btc addresses, copy them to a textfile, close bitcoin, rename wallet.dat to wallet2.dat, rename wallet1.dat to wallet.dat, reopn bitcoin, send random amounts of btc to the new addresses stored in wallet2.dat
1191 2010-12-10 14:20:30 <doublec> unzip it somewhere
1192 2010-12-10 14:20:41 <Bitcoinz> okay
1193 2010-12-10 14:20:50 <doublec> how computer savvy are you?
1194 2010-12-10 14:20:50 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000473a45c5fccb5d8074757e1f9de093ea80d62baa848ce7f4e7f2e
1195 2010-12-10 14:21:07 <MT`AwAy> johndrinkwater: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/006e1c64317c04ce3eea97e5d7edca0afe885abcbd0343c22fdf0d692615078d
1196 2010-12-10 14:21:14 <doublec> (Just so I know to what advice to give)
1197 2010-12-10 14:21:17 <MT`AwAy> Zarutian: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f6f090ee240706dd0aca13577c91ef9b651b4e25fcdc2d8a75ac4b344fb2735d
1198 2010-12-10 14:21:18 <MT`AwAy> xD
1199 2010-12-10 14:21:54 pere is now known as pere_away
1200 2010-12-10 14:22:12 <doublec> Bitcoinz, right click on "remoteminer-cpu.exe" and choose 'Create Shortcut"
1201 2010-12-10 14:22:37 <doublec> Bitcoinz, right click on the shortcut that appears and choose 'Properties'
1202 2010-12-10 14:22:46 <Bitcoinz> okay busy with the stuff, i will be back
1203 2010-12-10 14:22:59 <doublec> ok
1204 2010-12-10 14:23:01 <johndrinkwater> I noticed on the forum people were talking about a bitcoin android client, still wanted or is someone here making it? :)
1205 2010-12-10 14:23:12 <doublec> johndrinkwater, tcatm is
1206 2010-12-10 14:23:33 <doublec> There's an N900 bitcoind binary if you want to change phones ;)
1207 2010-12-10 14:23:45 <johndrinkwater> oh heavens no :P
1208 2010-12-10 14:24:06 <Zarutian> johndrinkwater: I see the usefullness of it, but I am not sure those smartphones have the storage capacity to store the blockchain
1209 2010-12-10 14:24:17 <doublec> I run it on my phone 24x7. Sending to 18T1jQ9QT1fsDJ7q8YKBGhdM56iYt4sXoV goes direct to my phone.
1210 2010-12-10 14:24:38 <tcatm> johndrinkwater: i'm working on one
1211 2010-12-10 14:24:43 <doublec> And I have widgets on my home screen to show balances, etc
1212 2010-12-10 14:24:55 <doublec> Zarutian, they easily have the storage space
1213 2010-12-10 14:24:57 <johndrinkwater> well, if you need a tester on a Desire, i’m one
1214 2010-12-10 14:25:09 <tcatm> I could need help for developing
1215 2010-12-10 14:26:12 <Zarutian> doublec: but do they have the bandwith at resonable prices? No one wants to pay 50 kr to recieve 0.25 btc
1216 2010-12-10 14:26:32 <doublec> Zarutian, hasn't been a problem for me so far
1217 2010-12-10 14:26:55 <doublec> Zarutian, although I spend a lot of time connected to wifi since I'm often near a wifi point somewhere
1218 2010-12-10 14:27:20 <dsg> Zarutian: N900 has 32GB onboard and a micro-SD slot.
1219 2010-12-10 14:27:32 <dsg> But following the blockchain will kill you battery probably
1220 2010-12-10 14:27:48 <doublec> downloading the initial blockchain did hit the battery
1221 2010-12-10 14:27:51 <doublec> and took a long time
1222 2010-12-10 14:28:16 <doublec> I don't notice much of a hit running it constantly
1223 2010-12-10 14:28:17 <johndrinkwater> is it possible to have a pruned blockchain like you can with a git tree?
1224 2010-12-10 14:28:29 <doublec> but I also run Skype constantly so it's probably dwarfed by that
1225 2010-12-10 14:28:43 <dsg> doublec: k
1226 2010-12-10 14:28:57 <Zarutian> dsg: downloading 6 blocks per hour should be enough for when the app is in the background
1227 2010-12-10 14:28:57 <doublec> I should run a battery monitor and look at the actual hit while it's running
1228 2010-12-10 14:29:00 <dsg> doublec: Were you planning on writing a n900 GUI as well, or are you happy with CLI?
1229 2010-12-10 14:29:17 <doublec> dsg, I'm tempted.
1230 2010-12-10 14:29:29 <doublec> So far the cli with desktop widgets has been ok
1231 2010-12-10 14:29:36 <doublec> But it'd be nice to have a more featured UI
1232 2010-12-10 14:29:53 <MT`AwAy> [23:27:22] <johndrinkwater> is it possible to have a pruned blockchain like you can with a git tree? <- some day
1233 2010-12-10 14:29:58 <MT`AwAy> for now it's not an emergency
1234 2010-12-10 14:30:06 <Bitcoinz> shortcut crated on my desktop :)
1235 2010-12-10 14:30:21 <Bitcoinz> properties open..
1236 2010-12-10 14:30:38 <doublec> Bitcoinz, add to the end of the 'Target' field: -server=173.255.205.10 -address=abitcoinaddress
1237 2010-12-10 14:30:44 <doublec> replace 'abitcoinaddress' with an address
1238 2010-12-10 14:30:47 <doublec> that you want to receive coins
1239 2010-12-10 14:31:06 <Bitcoinz> okay busy again with this step
1240 2010-12-10 14:31:07 <doublec> dsg, I'm no great UI designer though so I'm not sure what's a good approach
1241 2010-12-10 14:31:23 <doublec> It'd be nice to to plug into dbus and have events for coins received, etc
1242 2010-12-10 14:33:56 <Bitcoinz> done so far without problems....but miner is still running..
1243 2010-12-10 14:34:10 <Bitcoinz> thats okay alright?
1244 2010-12-10 14:34:20 <xelister> I find this (and other series on this site) the most funny review thing ever. lol :D  http://www.youtube.com/user/RedLetterMedia#p/u/46/qlV3bsafkq0
1245 2010-12-10 14:34:31 <doublec> You should stop generating with the existing bitcoin, and run the shortcut you just created
1246 2010-12-10 14:35:01 <doublec> It should bring up a console window showing progress
1247 2010-12-10 14:35:21 <doublec> And will show an estimate of the coins you will receive. Which will increase over time as you contribute more.
1248 2010-12-10 14:36:01 <Bitcoinz> but i should not stop bitcoin right? just stop generating?
1249 2010-12-10 14:36:05 <doublec> correct
1250 2010-12-10 14:36:11 <Bitcoinz> ok
1251 2010-12-10 14:36:23 <doublec> And the miner is single threaded. So if you have more than one CPU core you can run multiple instances of the miner.
1252 2010-12-10 14:37:29 <dsg> doublec: Heh, yeah. Your plans are more ambitious than my simple python client idea. :)
1253 2010-12-10 14:37:54 <doublec> A python client probably a better idea. Much quicker to get going.
1254 2010-12-10 14:38:08 <MT`AwAy> [23:30:28] <doublec> It'd be nice to to plug into dbus and have events for coins received, etc  <- I can do that
1255 2010-12-10 14:38:23 <MT`AwAy> (well, mid-january for first release)
1256 2010-12-10 14:38:27 albatross_ has joined
1257 2010-12-10 14:38:46 <doublec> MT`AwAy, coo!
1258 2010-12-10 14:38:50 <doublec> erm, cool!
1259 2010-12-10 14:38:50 <Bitcoinz> Dos screen running with best lines
1260 2010-12-10 14:39:10 <MT`AwAy> doublec: Qt has support for dbus, adding such events wouldn't be too hard ( https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,4.0.html )
1261 2010-12-10 14:39:58 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy: So I just spent about a half an hour looking into possible ways of setting a timeout on incoming RPC connections/calls...
1262 2010-12-10 14:40:30 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: either that or make it possible to have more than one open at a time
1263 2010-12-10 14:41:25 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy:  But allowing more than one open at a time opens you up to another form of DOS attack (start a gazillion connections, use up all memory...)
1264 2010-12-10 14:42:27 <MT`AwAy> yeah
1265 2010-12-10 14:42:43 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy:  The most promising approach looks like using boost::thread api_caller() to put a timeout on the HTTPRead.  BUT...
1266 2010-12-10 14:43:22 <Bitcoinz> ehm my miner is running on 2 cores already :)
1267 2010-12-10 14:43:44 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: I don't know boost, but it has no support for pool/nonblock ?
1268 2010-12-10 14:43:46 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy:  ... we've already got the "restrict access by IP address" functionality.  Unless you set rpcallowip=*, connections from untrusted IPs are dropped before they can hang you
1269 2010-12-10 14:44:12 <MT`AwAy> yep
1270 2010-12-10 14:44:18 <gavinandresen> MT`AwAy:  boost has all sort of asynchronous IO options, and you're welcome to rewrite all the HTTP handling code and submit a patch.....
1271 2010-12-10 14:44:37 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: I gave up on modifying the bitcoin client when I opened main.cpp
1272 2010-12-10 14:44:47 <MT`AwAy> (I'm writing an alternative bitcoin client instead)
1273 2010-12-10 14:45:31 <dsg> MT`AwAy: Do you have a public repository?
1274 2010-12-10 14:45:49 <gavinandresen> All righty.  I'm going to document the potential RPC denial of service, but not change any code now.
1275 2010-12-10 14:46:22 <MT`AwAy> dsg: not until mid-january (fist alpha release, I want to avoid unkind comments until then)
1276 2010-12-10 14:48:35 <Bitcoinz> Concerning the pool..what is better? run the miner twice or run 1 with 2 cores?
1277 2010-12-10 14:50:00 <MT`AwAy> twice
1278 2010-12-10 14:53:11 <Bitcoinz> ok tnx
1279 2010-12-10 14:53:35 <Bitcoinz> i manage that later...need to shop now :D
1280 2010-12-10 14:59:10 <Bitcoinz> you guys are great helpers :)
1281 2010-12-10 15:05:04 <MT`AwAy> we try to
1282 2010-12-10 15:05:25 bitanarchy has joined
1283 2010-12-10 15:05:25 bitanarchy has quit (Changing host)
1284 2010-12-10 15:05:25 bitanarchy has joined
1285 2010-12-10 15:06:14 <nanotube> Bitcoinz: the pooled miner is single-threaded. you have to run one copy for each core.
1286 2010-12-10 15:08:44 <Bitcoinz> run it from 2 different directories?
1287 2010-12-10 15:09:20 <nanotube> maybe... i don't run the pooled miner. but two directories can't hurt. :)
1288 2010-12-10 15:10:08 <Bitcoinz> i could run it from usb stick to....would that be fine?
1289 2010-12-10 15:10:21 <Bitcoinz> or worse?
1290 2010-12-10 15:10:39 <Bitcoinz> than HD
1291 2010-12-10 15:10:47 <MT`AwAy> Bitcoinz: no difference
1292 2010-12-10 15:10:59 <Bitcoinz> okay
1293 2010-12-10 15:12:08 <Bitcoinz> the minder does not show hash speed but the remoter does..is that okay?
1294 2010-12-10 15:12:30 <Bitcoinz> 12 connections on the minder
1295 2010-12-10 15:12:37 <Bitcoinz> minder*
1296 2010-12-10 15:12:45 <Bitcoinz> miner**
1297 2010-12-10 15:12:47 <Bitcoinz> lol
1298 2010-12-10 15:17:50 johndrinkwater has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1299 2010-12-10 15:18:34 cdecker has joined
1300 2010-12-10 15:20:28 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1301 2010-12-10 15:21:03 jrabbit has joined
1302 2010-12-10 15:22:40 <[Noodles]> that's not the miner, that's the bitcoin-client, you don't even need that to run the remoteminer
1303 2010-12-10 15:23:47 <Diablo-D3> Bitcoinz: miners do not tell bitcoin their speed
1304 2010-12-10 15:24:05 <Diablo-D3> Bitcoinz: so bitcoin says 0 while the miners print their actual speed
1305 2010-12-10 15:30:03 <Bitcoinz> so...i could probably run the remoteminer twice? ech one on a core?
1306 2010-12-10 15:30:35 <Bitcoinz> or does that make no sence?
1307 2010-12-10 15:31:17 <Diablo-D3> that makes no sense
1308 2010-12-10 15:31:30 <Diablo-D3> I havent used this remoteminer thing, but if its like m0, you run it once per gpu
1309 2010-12-10 15:31:37 <Diablo-D3> if its like mine, you run it once
1310 2010-12-10 15:33:32 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: last i heard the pooled miner is single-thread.
1311 2010-12-10 15:33:38 <nanotube> so it has to be run once per core
1312 2010-12-10 15:34:13 <nanotube> Bitcoinz: just follow the instructions on the ,,pool page
1313 2010-12-10 15:34:13 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1314 2010-12-10 15:34:57 <nanotube> from that page: 'The remote miner program runs on a single thread. If you have multiple CPU cores you can run multiple instances of the remote miner.'
1315 2010-12-10 15:36:03 [Beta] has joined
1316 2010-12-10 15:36:51 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: erm, it isnt a gpu miner?
1317 2010-12-10 15:37:08 <Diablo-D3> whats the point of running it at all?
1318 2010-12-10 15:37:36 <nanotube> so people running cpus and wanting to contribute to the network can get at least a little bit of reward. :)
1319 2010-12-10 15:37:59 <nanotube> (they have an nvidia-cuda miner available too, it seems)
1320 2010-12-10 15:38:12 <Diablo-D3> thats just as bad
1321 2010-12-10 15:38:38 <Diablo-D3> why dont they just code a daemon that pretends to be a bitcoin instance
1322 2010-12-10 15:38:43 <Diablo-D3> and use my miner
1323 2010-12-10 15:38:53 <Diablo-D3> and just set ip and port accordingly
1324 2010-12-10 15:39:13 <nanotube> you can suggest it to the pooled miner devs...
1325 2010-12-10 15:40:35 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
1326 2010-12-10 15:48:36 <albatross_> hey tcatm
1327 2010-12-10 15:50:44 <tcatm> hey
1328 2010-12-10 15:52:14 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1329 2010-12-10 16:03:03 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: meh
1330 2010-12-10 16:06:49 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
1331 2010-12-10 16:06:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96867 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1916 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 22 hours, 56 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11681.37209624
1332 2010-12-10 16:07:46 <[Noodles]> the available pooled-cuda-miner sucks anyway, to damn slow, loading CPU and only half of the GPU
1333 2010-12-10 16:20:57 <xelister> dont use Diablo-D3's miner
1334 2010-12-10 16:21:06 <xelister> use diablo's forked miner \o/
1335 2010-12-10 16:21:41 <xelister> soon available in github near you
1336 2010-12-10 16:21:43 <Diablo-D3> what, with all your bullshit debug shit that just hides actual errors?
1337 2010-12-10 16:22:01 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I suspect you forked wrong anyhow
1338 2010-12-10 16:22:18 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you're supposed to tell the github ui to fork it, and then pull from that repo and add your changes
1339 2010-12-10 16:22:22 <xelister> it adds more debug to otherwise meaningless erorr messages
1340 2010-12-10 16:22:27 <xelister> Diablo-D3: no shit einstain
1341 2010-12-10 16:22:37 <Diablo-D3> how are they meaningless?
1342 2010-12-10 16:22:40 <xelister> also it can select which platforms/devices to use
1343 2010-12-10 16:22:44 <Diablo-D3> its 600 lines of fucking code
1344 2010-12-10 16:22:56 <Diablo-D3> xelister: btw, you CANT select which platforms
1345 2010-12-10 16:23:00 <Diablo-D3> no one fucking handles icd right
1346 2010-12-10 16:23:02 <xelister> and yet I do
1347 2010-12-10 16:23:10 <Diablo-D3> you only get one platform
1348 2010-12-10 16:23:19 <xelister> and you can select CPU - if you need to test on cpu-only computer
1349 2010-12-10 16:23:40 <xelister> well then it will work once opencl+drivers support platforms correctly :)
1350 2010-12-10 16:24:00 <xelister> well lets face it, your error messages without timestamps sucked donkey cock, when used on left-alone miner
1351 2010-12-10 16:24:01 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1352 2010-12-10 16:24:14 <xelister> but don't worry, bitcoind's debug log is even worse
1353 2010-12-10 16:25:01 <xelister> anyhow, people that want more debug and controll of few details, should find this fork of your greate work usefull
1354 2010-12-10 16:26:17 <xelister> Diablo-D3: btw, I will probably rape your's .java file... why didnt you use normal tabs like a white person for ident ;)
1355 2010-12-10 16:28:05 StrangeCharm has joined
1356 2010-12-10 16:29:28 <Diablo-D3> xelister: because only idiots use tabs
1357 2010-12-10 16:29:34 <Diablo-D3> use two spaces like a normal person
1358 2010-12-10 16:29:52 <MT`AwAy> only selfish idiots use spaces to indent
1359 2010-12-10 16:30:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: if you want timestamps, ask slf4j to output them
1360 2010-12-10 16:30:07 <MT`AwAy> good people use tabs, so every dev can configure his prefered width
1361 2010-12-10 16:30:16 <albatross_> lol...well, eclipse and vstudio use tabs by default...
1362 2010-12-10 16:30:23 <MT`AwAy> tabs are good
1363 2010-12-10 16:30:29 <Diablo-D3> er nm, I havent committed that change yet
1364 2010-12-10 16:30:42 <Diablo-D3> tabs only cause problems for sw development
1365 2010-12-10 16:30:56 <albatross_> lol, elaborate plz
1366 2010-12-10 16:31:25 <MT`AwAy> tabs cause problems? how?
1367 2010-12-10 16:32:00 <xelister> Diablo-D3: what the fuck
1368 2010-12-10 16:32:06 <xelister> <Diablo-D3> xelister: because only idiots use tabs
1369 2010-12-10 16:32:11 <xelister> bitch are u crazy ;)
1370 2010-12-10 16:32:20 <xelister> idiots like, I dont know... THE KERNEL DEVELOPERS ?!
1371 2010-12-10 16:32:54 <MT`AwAy> tabs or spaces, it's not a question of being idiot or no, it's just a question of which god you believe in (personally I believe in tab)
1372 2010-12-10 16:32:57 <Diablo-D3> they use spaces, xelister.
1373 2010-12-10 16:32:58 <MT`AwAy> but you can't change someone's mind
1374 2010-12-10 16:33:09 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I juse opened a random .c file, it uses tabs
1375 2010-12-10 16:33:11 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: no, I can just call them a noob
1376 2010-12-10 16:33:55 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: read file Documentation/CodingStyle in kernel tarball
1377 2010-12-10 16:34:02 <MT`AwAy> and start using tabs :D
1378 2010-12-10 16:34:09 <Diablo-D3> nope, Im not going to use tabs.
1379 2010-12-10 16:34:13 * xelister bets the fuck Diablo-D3 with a clue bat with Linus signature
1380 2010-12-10 16:34:15 <Diablo-D3> tabs has no place in code
1381 2010-12-10 16:35:03 * xelister adds "uses TABs, as all editors do, and as Linus recommends" to list of improvments of the forked version
1382 2010-12-10 16:35:26 <Diablo-D3> my vim nor my eclipse use tabs.
1383 2010-12-10 16:35:51 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: on my home computer, I like tabs to make 8 spaces because it's easier to read. On my laptop the screen is small so I want 2 space width tabs. Thanks to tabs it's easy.
1384 2010-12-10 16:36:23 <xelister> well spaces have adventage of being able to adjust easier to continue line after some word in line above, but bascially I dont use that
1385 2010-12-10 16:36:29 <Diablo-D3> yes, or you can just use 2 spaces everywhere.
1386 2010-12-10 16:38:26 [Beta] is now known as johndrinkwater
1387 2010-12-10 16:39:19 <johndrinkwater> save bytes, use tab ;)
1388 2010-12-10 16:40:24 <MT`AwAy> johndrinkwater: just allow everyone to configure their tab-width as they like, use tabs
1389 2010-12-10 16:41:43 slush_cz1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1390 2010-12-10 16:42:05 slush_cz1 has joined
1391 2010-12-10 16:42:55 johanhenselmans has left ()
1392 2010-12-10 16:44:07 <xelister> btw
1393 2010-12-10 16:44:33 <xelister> "Incredible - nearly 400,000 signatures in one day for press freedom! Join the massive outcry and forward the email below -"  --> http://www.avaaz.org/en/wikileaks_petition/?vl
1394 2010-12-10 16:47:05 <MT`AwAy> I already signed
1395 2010-12-10 16:47:15 <MT`AwAy> (a while ag)
1396 2010-12-10 16:47:30 redengin has joined
1397 2010-12-10 17:00:00 johanhenselmans has joined
1398 2010-12-10 17:02:01 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1399 2010-12-10 17:09:53 acous has joined
1400 2010-12-10 17:09:54 acous has quit (Changing host)
1401 2010-12-10 17:09:54 acous has joined
1402 2010-12-10 17:13:34 aschmitz has joined
1403 2010-12-10 17:15:00 <johndrinkwater> reading the FAQ, If someone transferred 0.001 BTC, how would the client behave now, display 0.00?
1404 2010-12-10 17:18:12 maximi89 has joined
1405 2010-12-10 17:22:52 <bitanarchy> are bankwire transfers common in bitcoin-otc?
1406 2010-12-10 17:23:21 <xelister> this sounds like a good idea about wikileaks, http://tctechcrunch.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/screen-shot-2010-12-10-at-6-14-46-am.png
1407 2010-12-10 17:26:38 <bitanarchy> nanotube: are you shorting bitcoin?
1408 2010-12-10 17:27:19 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: yes, 0.00. but you can still see the extra digits with 'bitcoind getbalance' e.g. bitcoind output doesn't round.
1409 2010-12-10 17:27:26 <johndrinkwater> k
1410 2010-12-10 17:27:26 <nanotube> bitanarchy: no... why do you ask?
1411 2010-12-10 17:27:42 <nanotube> bitanarchy: also... not common that i know of... but if you want to offer wire transfers, nothing wrong with that.
1412 2010-12-10 17:27:45 <bitanarchy> "	i'm actually loaning btc at 1% per 30 days, for a max term of 30 days. trust, obviously, required."
1413 2010-12-10 17:28:06 <nanotube> bitanarchy: with a loan, /you/ can short bitcoin. by making a loan, all i'm doing is loaning. :)
1414 2010-12-10 17:29:59 <bitanarchy> i prefer wire transfer inside eu... no fees
1415 2010-12-10 17:32:36 <nanotube> bitanarchy: i recall there are a few eu-users on -otc. so, it's possible.
1416 2010-12-10 17:33:13 <bitanarchy> nanotube: what can you do with a bitcoin loan, except shorting it? The idea is to sell the loan and buy it back later to pay it off.
1417 2010-12-10 17:33:50 <nanotube> indeed, it has been used for that purpose before. also to lock in arbitrage profit...
1418 2010-12-10 17:34:10 <nanotube> but as a lender, as long as i trust you to repay, i don't really care what you do with it, as long as it gets repaid. :)
1419 2010-12-10 17:35:27 <bitanarchy> nanotube: any eu users with reputation?
1420 2010-12-10 17:36:31 <nanotube> i don't really keep track of who's from where... you can check user reputations on the otc wot
1421 2010-12-10 17:37:01 <nanotube> try posting an offer on the order book, stating your preferred method of payment... and see if there are any takers. :)
1422 2010-12-10 17:48:03 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1423 2010-12-10 17:54:34 <johndrinkwater> theres a reasonable amount of discussion of bitcoin on identica today.
1424 2010-12-10 17:57:10 <bitanarchy> Some said (yesterday) that the the miners collude anyway. So what if the largest miners indeed collude to form >50%. What is it that they would start to do first?
1425 2010-12-10 17:57:25 <[Noodles]> like that it "cannot work in anonymous ways"? bitcoin is not ment to be anonymous, its pseudonymous
1426 2010-12-10 17:58:44 AAA_awright_ has joined
1427 2010-12-10 17:58:59 <[Noodles]> miners collude?
1428 2010-12-10 17:59:12 <nanotube> bitanarchy: see the ,,weaknesses wiki page
1429 2010-12-10 17:59:12 <gribble> Read about the potential weaknesses of bitcoin here: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=weaknesses
1430 2010-12-10 18:00:42 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1431 2010-12-10 18:05:28 <johndrinkwater> from the comment about IP sending, how useful is that feature anyhow..
1432 2010-12-10 18:06:26 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: not very. right now it's disabled on all clients, unless you explicitly run with -allowiptransactions (or something of the sort)
1433 2010-12-10 18:07:00 <johndrinkwater> right. how do you claim/spend an IP transaction?
1434 2010-12-10 18:13:22 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: when you receive an ip tx, your client automatically generates a regular bitcoin address to accept it with. or something like that.
1435 2010-12-10 18:13:29 <nanotube> from then on, it's just a regular tx
1436 2010-12-10 18:14:22 <johndrinkwater> ah. yeah, thats not smart. surprised email sending wasnt there instead
1437 2010-12-10 18:14:54 <nanotube> it was there initially just for testing, iirc.
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1439 2010-12-10 18:15:00 int0x27h has joined
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1441 2010-12-10 18:31:26 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1442 2010-12-10 18:32:45 sgornick has joined
1443 2010-12-10 18:40:39 bitanarchy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1444 2010-12-10 18:41:19 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1445 2010-12-10 18:41:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96887 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1896 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 9 hours, 9 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12055.28931952
1446 2010-12-10 18:42:25 <TheAncientGoat> ;;bc,calc 1000
1447 2010-12-10 18:42:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 34 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 48 seconds
1448 2010-12-10 18:42:34 <TheAncientGoat> :0
1449 2010-12-10 18:42:42 <tcatm> I collected a 0.00264283 fee. I thought fees were around 0.01 BTC?
1450 2010-12-10 18:43:06 <nanotube> tcatm: usually they are... i guess someone was experimenting with something?
1451 2010-12-10 18:43:19 * tcatm digs out the block number
1452 2010-12-10 18:45:21 <tcatm> I think the fee was not intentional.
1453 2010-12-10 18:45:27 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/b/96727
1454 2010-12-10 18:47:07 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/b/95420 looks like it originates from the pool
1455 2010-12-10 18:47:23 <MT`AwAy> yeah
1456 2010-12-10 18:47:29 <MT`AwAy> this kind of generate block is the pool
1457 2010-12-10 18:48:37 kingdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1458 2010-12-10 18:49:20 <tcatm> The pool should round to 0.01 BTC. Those fractional parts will only be passed around to miners.
1459 2010-12-10 18:50:22 Granttt has quit ()
1460 2010-12-10 18:50:28 <nanotube> mmm
1461 2010-12-10 18:51:45 akem has joined
1462 2010-12-10 18:52:39 <nanotube> tcatm: i don't think it's the pool. it's a transaction /consolidating/ a bunch of small balances into 1 btc.
1463 2010-12-10 18:53:07 <nanotube> a pool would be /breaking up/ an amount into smaller ones.
1464 2010-12-10 18:53:09 <nanotube> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000233334b157d901714baf59e5b9236227b2878844e52244da4195e
1465 2010-12-10 18:53:16 <nanotube> this is the block generated by the pool --^
1466 2010-12-10 18:54:56 <tcatm> nanotube: Look at the raw block. It says "coinbase".
1467 2010-12-10 18:55:41 <tcatm> Oh we're talking about the same block.
1468 2010-12-10 18:57:37 <nanotube> tcatm: heh yea. 95420 is the pool block.. i'm just saying that the tx that got included in your block, 96727, that has the tiny fee.. i'm not sure that that has any connection to the pool...
1469 2010-12-10 18:58:33 <tcatm> If you follow that TX you'll see that it starts at that pool block.
1470 2010-12-10 18:59:02 KwukDuck has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1471 2010-12-10 18:59:02 <nanotube> mmm...
1472 2010-12-10 18:59:23 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1473 2010-12-10 19:00:25 <nanotube> tcatm: i don't see that... how do you see that it 'starts' at 95420?
1474 2010-12-10 19:00:56 <tcatm> click on 1Dkmr3Dv7QSUxT2cdJTfktRx7f7DKZcNcd: 0.55264283
1475 2010-12-10 19:01:02 Grantt has joined
1476 2010-12-10 19:03:26 <nanotube> tcatm: aaah yes. there it is. :)
1477 2010-12-10 19:04:08 <nanotube> not sure why the tx then 'rounded off' the amount by spitting the rest into the fee. there was no requirement for it to do that.
1478 2010-12-10 19:06:14 <tcatm> I think there was a patch a few months ago that to cut off fractional parts
1479 2010-12-10 19:07:07 <nanotube> really? what's the point, though i don't get it... when the miner gets the fraction later... it'll get cut off again when he tries to spend?
1480 2010-12-10 19:07:30 <nanotube> so the fractional bits will just get pushed around like that?
1481 2010-12-10 19:07:44 <donpdonp> this sounds a lot like a subplot from Superman III
1482 2010-12-10 19:08:15 <necrodearia> Uhoh, sirius-m hasn't been online in a while.  Is there a risk of losing #bitcoin-dev again?
1483 2010-12-10 19:09:14 <tcatm> There was a problem that you couldn't spend the mined coins when the you mined a fractional fee so satoshi made a patch to re-add those to the fee again.
1484 2010-12-10 19:10:19 <nanotube> necrodearia: he's been online under the sirius_ nick
1485 2010-12-10 19:10:22 <nanotube> ;;seen sirius_
1486 2010-12-10 19:10:22 <gribble> sirius_ was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 56 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Sirius_> is someone ddossing again or something?
1487 2010-12-10 19:10:54 <nanotube> necrodearia: that said, we have plenty of ops atm, and some people have +o on chanserv too.
1488 2010-12-10 19:11:00 <nanotube> so it's ok i think
1489 2010-12-10 19:11:11 <maximi89> what will happen one time we get the 21 millions of BTC done?
1490 2010-12-10 19:11:32 <nanotube> tcatm: i see... well, if it were up to me, i'd just remove the auto-rounding from the client. :)
1491 2010-12-10 19:11:34 <necrodearia> maximi89, I think none of us will be alive
1492 2010-12-10 19:11:35 <johndrinkwater> nothing special
1493 2010-12-10 19:12:07 <johndrinkwater> blocks can continute to be made, though not sure there is much incentive then :)
1494 2010-12-10 19:12:12 <maximi89> necrodearia: :O
1495 2010-12-10 19:12:20 <tcatm> nanotube: Then you could never spent a 50.000001 BTC coinbase.
1496 2010-12-10 19:13:04 <nanotube> tcatm: why not? you could always just send someone 1.000001, e.g., if the client didn't round the input?
1497 2010-12-10 19:13:38 <tcatm> Nope. You only could send 49 BTC
1498 2010-12-10 19:14:21 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1499 2010-12-10 19:14:59 <nanotube> tcatm: i don't get it, how come?
1500 2010-12-10 19:15:17 * tcatm is looking for the commit
1501 2010-12-10 19:15:45 <nanotube> hey, i believe you that the commit exists. i'm saying that i'd /rather/ have it that there's no rounding, then there's no need for that commit.
1502 2010-12-10 19:16:33 <tcatm> I'm looking for the commit to understand what the problem was.
1503 2010-12-10 19:17:49 <tcatm> Ok, looks like sub-cent change transactions weren't possible because they'd require a fee.
1504 2010-12-10 19:18:50 <tcatm> Which you couldn't pay because the min fee is 0.01 BTC and thus would require a change transaction itself.
1505 2010-12-10 19:19:13 <maximi89> what's the khash average for a AMD X2 machine?
1506 2010-12-10 19:19:21 <tcatm> 4000
1507 2010-12-10 19:19:29 <nanotube> tcatm: you could just add extra inputs... so it was still possible to send .00001, just pay a .01 fee...
1508 2010-12-10 19:19:45 <johndrinkwater> 0.01 BTC transaction fee is hardcoded into peers, yeah?
1509 2010-12-10 19:20:15 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: you can see the current fee schedule on ,,txfee page
1510 2010-12-10 19:20:15 <gribble> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=transaction_fee
1511 2010-12-10 19:20:27 <tcatm> nanotube: Well yes, you could actually sent those 1.0000...01 BTC as to someone else
1512 2010-12-10 19:20:51 <johndrinkwater> if things came about that 0.00010 BTC were a common spend, that fee is high
1513 2010-12-10 19:21:04 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: yes, the stock code has this fee schedule hard coded, so if you use the stock miner code, it'd refuse to include those transactions that do not follow the fee schedule
1514 2010-12-10 19:21:08 <maximi89> tcatm: but the khash depends on connections right?
1515 2010-12-10 19:21:13 <johndrinkwater> mhm
1516 2010-12-10 19:21:15 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: it is changeable in the future... if btc value rises.
1517 2010-12-10 19:21:17 <tcatm> maximi89: nope, only on CPU power
1518 2010-12-10 19:21:41 <johndrinkwater> Would that make it tricky to change the fee though, if peers refuse to update..
1519 2010-12-10 19:21:49 <nanotube> tcatm: that's what i'm saying. i could. :) at least before that patch that autostrips the subcents into the fee.
1520 2010-12-10 19:21:58 <maximi89> tcatm: i'm at 1300 khash with an AMD X2 64 on GNU/Linux 64bits OS
1521 2010-12-10 19:22:15 <tcatm> maximi89: What CPU model is it?
1522 2010-12-10 19:22:17 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: yes... as would changing anything if peers refuse to update.
1523 2010-12-10 19:22:35 <maximi89> tcatm: AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual-Core QL-64
1524 2010-12-10 19:22:47 <johndrinkwater> could always change the block format to persuade them to update ;)
1525 2010-12-10 19:22:48 <maximi89> cpu MHz		: 2100.000
1526 2010-12-10 19:22:48 <maximi89> cache size	: 512 KB
1527 2010-12-10 19:23:11 <tcatm> nanotube: Yep, but in that case you'd be paying more than you wanted to someone.
1528 2010-12-10 19:23:12 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: if the majority of clients are accepting the old format... a fat lotta good that'll do ya, as the main chain will still use the old format.
1529 2010-12-10 19:23:24 <tcatm> maximi89: try -4way
1530 2010-12-10 19:23:40 <nanotube> tcatm: well, if you wanted to pay him exactly the 1.0001 :) otherwise, just pay him 1, and save the .0001 to yourself...
1531 2010-12-10 19:23:46 <maximi89> how do i run that?
1532 2010-12-10 19:23:56 <tcatm> Just add -4way to the command
1533 2010-12-10 19:23:57 <johndrinkwater> kinda stuck on that fee then, bummer.
1534 2010-12-10 19:24:05 <maximi89> doing
1535 2010-12-10 19:24:36 Bitcoinz has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1536 2010-12-10 19:25:08 <jgarzik> bitcoinmarket:  dead for everyone else, or just me?
1537 2010-12-10 19:25:22 <nanotube> johndrinkwater: presumably, the fee schedule published by the mainline client will be adhered to by the majority of the network...
1538 2010-12-10 19:25:39 <johndrinkwater> jgarzik, was for me earlier
1539 2010-12-10 19:25:47 <tcatm> jgarzik: I can login.
1540 2010-12-10 19:25:47 <maximi89> tcatm: so i will run  "./bitcoin -4way"
1541 2010-12-10 19:25:48 * jgarzik has been getting connection timeouts to BCM
1542 2010-12-10 19:25:52 <tcatm> maximi89: yep.
1543 2010-12-10 19:25:55 <nanotube> jgarzik: up for me now... are you using https ?
1544 2010-12-10 19:26:07 <jgarzik> it just fixed itself.
1545 2010-12-10 19:26:08 <maximi89> ok, it's running, waiting to see how it works
1546 2010-12-10 19:26:13 * jgarzik kicks BCW update process.
1547 2010-12-10 19:26:56 Kiba has joined
1548 2010-12-10 19:27:54 <jgarzik> We're back down below $1,000,000 economy.
1549 2010-12-10 19:28:10 <tcatm> Cheap coins :)
1550 2010-12-10 19:28:50 <Kiba> the economy had grown
1551 2010-12-10 19:29:00 <Kiba> it's just isn't reflected in the currency exchange
1552 2010-12-10 19:29:44 <maximi89> tcatm: average 1500
1553 2010-12-10 19:30:49 <albatross_> i wonder how much new USD per day is flowing into mtgox
1554 2010-12-10 19:31:32 <tcatm> maximi89: Have you limited generation to 1 core?
1555 2010-12-10 19:31:47 <maximi89> no
1556 2010-12-10 19:31:48 Grantt has quit ()
1557 2010-12-10 19:32:21 <maximi89> it's using 140CPU
1558 2010-12-10 19:33:05 <tcatm> Do you have a GPU?
1559 2010-12-10 19:36:05 <midnightmagic> i am strangely gleeful when a new proof-of-work pops into my debug.log..
1560 2010-12-10 19:36:30 <Kiba> monentary crank
1561 2010-12-10 19:37:03 <Kiba> Prob with bitcoin is that it still is commodity based (CPU cycles) and thus inherently discriminating. -- some dude on twitter.
1562 2010-12-10 19:37:03 <maximi89> tcatm: HD3200 RS780, opensource drivers
1563 2010-12-10 19:37:09 <Kiba> WTF does inherently discriminating mean?
1564 2010-12-10 19:37:24 <Kiba> ok, maybe it's wrong to call people monentary crank
1565 2010-12-10 19:37:51 <tcatm> maximi89: Ok, that card doesn't support OpenCL.
1566 2010-12-10 19:40:17 aschmitz has left ("Leaving")
1567 2010-12-10 19:40:21 <jgarzik> Kiba: twitter link?
1568 2010-12-10 19:41:17 <jgarzik> albatross_: probably not so much
1569 2010-12-10 19:41:34 * tcatm tries to compile bitcoind for android
1570 2010-12-10 19:43:10 <Kiba> people are whining aobut mining are a waste of money.
1571 2010-12-10 19:43:19 RazielZ has quit ()
1572 2010-12-10 19:43:30 <jgarzik> Kiba: URL?
1573 2010-12-10 19:43:31 <Kiba> compared to what? frauds who called themsleves bankers?
1574 2010-12-10 19:44:02 <Kiba> http://twitter.com/#!/search/bitcoin
1575 2010-12-10 19:45:45 <MacRohard> bitcoin's value is based on goods/services traded for bitcoins, not cpu cycles
1576 2010-12-10 19:47:55 <Kiba> there are some legit compliant
1577 2010-12-10 19:48:02 <Kiba> like the fact that bitcoin does not have an intristic value
1578 2010-12-10 19:48:14 <MacRohard> intrinsic value is not necessary
1579 2010-12-10 19:48:20 <Kiba> but most of them are bollocks...
1580 2010-12-10 19:48:30 <Kiba> MacRohard: still legit, even if it is not neccesary
1581 2010-12-10 19:48:42 <MacRohard> eh. i dunno about that
1582 2010-12-10 19:48:42 <necrodearia> How about absolute value?
1583 2010-12-10 19:48:47 <Kiba> it just mean we have to start with gold if we want to emerge out of the barter economy
1584 2010-12-10 19:48:59 <Kiba> no such thing as absolute value, necrodearia
1585 2010-12-10 19:49:04 <Kiba> value are determined by human beings
1586 2010-12-10 19:49:15 <jgarzik> absolute value is a non-negative value
1587 2010-12-10 19:49:15 <necrodearia> http://is.gd/ivOgg
1588 2010-12-10 19:49:16 * jgarzik runs
1589 2010-12-10 19:50:26 * lmptfy pirates that for you
1590 2010-12-10 19:50:35 <albatross_> jgarzik: just what i was afraid of: 7200btc coming in every day but very little US to match.
1591 2010-12-10 19:50:55 <MacRohard> 7200 btc isn't alot though
1592 2010-12-10 19:51:29 <albatross_> the price is low because they are oversupplied, imo
1593 2010-12-10 19:51:57 <MacRohard> sure.. but where is the supply coming from? proably soem large seller
1594 2010-12-10 19:52:35 <Kiba> bitcoin is just a number
1595 2010-12-10 19:52:38 <Kiba> it's not an object
1596 2010-12-10 19:52:43 <necrodearia> MacRohard, Like plants and animals growing over the course of time, bitcoins are growing over time.
1597 2010-12-10 19:53:16 <necrodearia> hmm, maybe I misunderstood the question
1598 2010-12-10 19:53:32 <necrodearia> change of answer: 42
1599 2010-12-10 19:53:46 <Kiba> I find it amusing is that if everyone receive 1000 bitcoin RIGHT NOW, it would have the same effect on the economy as printing money.
1600 2010-12-10 19:54:14 <Kiba> the POWER of integers!
1601 2010-12-10 19:54:23 <necrodearia> Not necessarily
1602 2010-12-10 19:54:38 <MacRohard> the power of breaking promises
1603 2010-12-10 19:54:42 <MacRohard> and cheating
1604 2010-12-10 19:54:59 <nanotube> jgarzik tweets! :)
1605 2010-12-10 19:55:00 <necrodearia> Consider for example if there are only three users involved in the bitcoin community and each users sends 1000 bitcoins to another user, and each user only receives 1000 bitcoins from one other user.  In this case, the effect would not be the same as printing money.
1606 2010-12-10 19:55:18 * jgarzik has been on twitter for a while
1607 2010-12-10 19:55:44 <Kiba> there's a kaballion of skeptics
1608 2010-12-10 19:55:48 <Kiba> a kabillion of believers
1609 2010-12-10 19:55:59 <Kiba> and superkabillion of people who never heard of bitcoin
1610 2010-12-10 19:56:36 <Kiba> also, I got 30 bucks in my wallet :D
1611 2010-12-10 19:57:05 <albatross_> has anyone created a patch to report hashes back to bitcoin from getwork miner?
1612 2010-12-10 19:57:20 <Kiba> one of the cool property of bitcoin
1613 2010-12-10 19:57:28 <Kiba> is that I don't need to be online to receive money
1614 2010-12-10 19:57:29 <Kiba> AMazing
1615 2010-12-10 19:58:35 <necrodearia> which is shared with paypal, liberty reserve and other currencies
1616 2010-12-10 20:00:04 <jgarzik> albatross_: not sure what you're requesting.  getwork already sends work back to bitcoin.  if work is valid, it prints the hash.
1617 2010-12-10 20:00:46 maximi89 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1618 2010-12-10 20:01:34 <jgarzik> I created the obvious patch to print hash upon failure, but that is of limited use because you normally do not return getwork without a [probably] successful hash.  http://yyz.us/bitcoin/patch.bitcoin-pow-fail
1619 2010-12-10 20:02:02 <albatross_> jgarzik: sorry, i was talking about monitoring the hashespersec coming from getwork miner(s). so, have the miners report back their hash and the getwork updates the hps value so getinfo reports it
1620 2010-12-10 20:02:11 <MT`AwAy> anyone knows a portable way to get some random bytes that would work cross-platform ?
1621 2010-12-10 20:02:55 <necrodearia> MT`AwAy, In what way will the bytes work amongst platforms?
1622 2010-12-10 20:03:00 <jgarzik> albatross_: you could do that.  it works as long as all miners are yours; if you have a pool, someone could easily "lie"
1623 2010-12-10 20:03:15 <MT`AwAy> necrodearia: it's to seed a random generator
1624 2010-12-10 20:03:21 <necrodearia> MT`AwAy, Ah, I see.
1625 2010-12-10 20:03:23 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: rand()  ;-)
1626 2010-12-10 20:03:31 <Kiba> blah, not a single download yesterday
1627 2010-12-10 20:03:38 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1628 2010-12-10 20:03:55 <MT`AwAy> jgarzik: need to seed rand() with srand()
1629 2010-12-10 20:04:30 <jgarzik> yes
1630 2010-12-10 20:04:35 <MT`AwAy> I know a common practice on win32 is to take the screen buffer
1631 2010-12-10 20:04:40 <MT`AwAy> but it's win32 specific
1632 2010-12-10 20:04:50 <lmptfy> http://lmptfy.com/?q=kiba
1633 2010-12-10 20:04:59 <MT`AwAy> on linux I could read from /dev/random, but that's unix specific
1634 2010-12-10 20:05:04 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: pid xor nanosecond time
1635 2010-12-10 20:05:12 <albatross_> jgarzik: hmmm...i wonder if i should add another parameter to getwork or have a reporthashespersec json method.
1636 2010-12-10 20:05:15 <MT`AwAy> jgarzik: any portable way to get nanosecond time? :D
1637 2010-12-10 20:05:20 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/  :)
1638 2010-12-10 20:05:22 <MT`AwAy> (and pid)
1639 2010-12-10 20:05:31 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: I can't really make a network call here
1640 2010-12-10 20:05:33 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: well mingw gives me getpid() and gettimeofday()
1641 2010-12-10 20:05:43 <MT`AwAy> jgarzik: well, that'll do
1642 2010-12-10 20:06:40 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: better is just directly use /dev/random or CryptGenRandom()
1643 2010-12-10 20:06:56 dwdollar has joined
1644 2010-12-10 20:06:58 <MT`AwAy> CryptGenRandom() ? what lib is that?
1645 2010-12-10 20:07:03 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: windows API
1646 2010-12-10 20:07:13 <jgarzik> ie. not portable, but superior
1647 2010-12-10 20:07:27 <MT`AwAy> I can #ifdef __WIN32
1648 2010-12-10 20:07:40 <MT`AwAy> but for unix, not all unices have /dev/random available
1649 2010-12-10 20:07:51 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: all modern relevant unices do :)
1650 2010-12-10 20:07:54 <MT`AwAy> well, I'll try opening it and fallback then
1651 2010-12-10 20:08:39 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptGenRandom
1652 2010-12-10 20:08:50 <jgarzik> yeah, unix fallback is easy
1653 2010-12-10 20:09:37 <MT`AwAy> anyway that'll be only for the first run
1654 2010-12-10 20:09:47 <MT`AwAy> next runs will benefit from saved prng state
1655 2010-12-10 20:10:06 <MT`AwAy> (1024 bytes of entropy)
1656 2010-12-10 20:14:35 helmut has joined
1657 2010-12-10 20:15:27 <helmut> is there any other documentation on the headless client than the corresponding wiki page?
1658 2010-12-10 20:16:30 <helmut> ahh the running_bitcoin page.
1659 2010-12-10 20:17:40 <helmut> strangely enough it doesn't start generating. that is no cpu consumption and gethashespersec returning 0 (getgenerate returns true of course)
1660 2010-12-10 20:19:21 <[Noodles]> is it still downloading blocks?
1661 2010-12-10 20:19:31 <jgarzik> helmut: you have to download all 96,897 blocks first.  have you done that?
1662 2010-12-10 20:19:32 <[Noodles]> whats the blockcount?
1663 2010-12-10 20:19:56 xelister has joined
1664 2010-12-10 20:20:40 <helmut> jgarzik: halfway :-)
1665 2010-12-10 20:20:43 <MT`AwAy> yay, getting new random bits each time!
1666 2010-12-10 20:20:51 <jgarzik> helmut: running 0.3.18?
1667 2010-12-10 20:20:56 <helmut> yes
1668 2010-12-10 20:21:00 <xelister> Ati sucks cocks in hell. Blaaarhhh arrggghhh.  Lets revert to fucking crossfire shit on reboot, so you are mining x2 slower.
1669 2010-12-10 20:21:33 * xelister really hopes Amd improves Ati's "legendar" quality
1670 2010-12-10 20:21:36 <jgarzik> helmut: it will be a while.  go get a coffee :L)
1671 2010-12-10 20:21:51 <MT`AwAy> anyway once I'm connected to the P2P network, the entropy from incoming transactions will be added to the wallet entropy
1672 2010-12-10 20:21:55 <[Noodles]> yay, get me some too, please
1673 2010-12-10 20:21:57 <jgarzik> helmut: if it takes more than a few hours, stop and restart.  you might have gotten a slow P2P peer.
1674 2010-12-10 20:22:11 <helmut> now I have no peer anymore :-/
1675 2010-12-10 20:22:34 <MT`AwAy> helmut: add peers from the list of known good peers
1676 2010-12-10 20:22:55 <MT`AwAy> helmut: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
1677 2010-12-10 20:23:29 <MT`AwAy> (nodes from owner "MagicalTux" are mine, and all up)
1678 2010-12-10 20:23:48 <jgarzik> known good peers are not necessarily known fast peers :/
1679 2010-12-10 20:24:08 <MT`AwAy> mine all are 100Mbps or better :)
1680 2010-12-10 20:25:02 <jgarzik> helmut: restarting gets you fresh connections.  bitcoin is a bit dumb in that the initial block download is only from one peer.  as long as blocks flow, however slowly, bitcoin won't change its behavior.  if blocks stop flowing...  bitcoin stops for a long time, before finding another peer.
1681 2010-12-10 20:25:10 <jgarzik> satoshi skipped BitTorrent 101
1682 2010-12-10 20:25:13 <helmut> now it's rising again (blockcount) :-)
1683 2010-12-10 20:25:39 <helmut> jgarzik: that was a useful hint.
1684 2010-12-10 20:26:06 <helmut> sounds like an initial database could be shipped with the tarball?
1685 2010-12-10 20:26:08 <MT`AwAy> if you keep bitcoin running it'll eventually get all the blocks
1686 2010-12-10 20:26:33 <albatross_> btw...i checked your crossfire stuff when i got home last night xelister.  i had no crossfire chains defined. each GPU was master (instead of master/slave like you had it)
1687 2010-12-10 20:27:03 <jgarzik> helmut: yes, it should be
1688 2010-12-10 20:27:10 <jgarzik> helmut: but there is resistance, so, ah well
1689 2010-12-10 20:27:22 <helmut> just trying to understand things.
1690 2010-12-10 20:27:55 <jgarzik> helmut: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/blocks-linux-64bit.tar.bz2 is around 94,000 blocks, and has been confirmed to work on Linux and Windows.
1691 2010-12-10 20:28:05 <xelister> albatross_: yeah :/  so it's a lie what aticonfig's own help pages says that --cf=off disables CrossFire (fully)
1692 2010-12-10 20:28:45 <helmut> jgarzik: thanks. but I think that any disruption will just slow it down now and I already got 60k
1693 2010-12-10 20:28:50 <albatross_> xelister: did you manually remove the defined chains?
1694 2010-12-10 20:29:05 <xelister> albatross_: nope. also I didnt added them. Hoped --cf=off would in fact disable cf
1695 2010-12-10 20:29:09 <midnightmagic> I *LOVE* ATI/AMD. They make godlike hardware that I've never had a problem with (beyond cooling, but that was the MB manufacturer's fault)
1696 2010-12-10 20:29:22 <xelister> midnightmagic: but the software&drivers are pure shit
1697 2010-12-10 20:29:36 <xelister> its like, take 10 ounces of pure shit
1698 2010-12-10 20:29:47 <xelister> sprinkle it with broken vista install DVDs
1699 2010-12-10 20:29:54 <xelister> feed that to cows
1700 2010-12-10 20:29:54 <albatross_> xelister: you may want to try to remove those chains manually and see if that fixes your issue. what driver? 10.11?
1701 2010-12-10 20:29:59 <xelister> and harvest their shit
1702 2010-12-10 20:30:00 <midnightmagic> nah they aren't. they are awesome. aticonfig works perfectly for me.. amdcccle works perfectly. I've never had so few problems.
1703 2010-12-10 20:30:02 <albatross_> lol
1704 2010-12-10 20:30:10 <xelister> finally add crunched windows 95 install disks
1705 2010-12-10 20:30:18 <xelister> and the effect is as good as their software quality
1706 2010-12-10 20:30:56 <xelister> even on windows, like 5 years ago
1707 2010-12-10 20:30:58 <midnightmagic> all the streams sdk stuff I've ever tried (with the exception of the v2.2 sdk combined with pyopencl) works perfectly..
1708 2010-12-10 20:31:01 <johndrinkwater> Kiba, that some dude on twitter (jan wildeboer) works at red hat :)
1709 2010-12-10 20:31:02 <xelister> I remember switch to Ati,
1710 2010-12-10 20:31:06 <helmut> beyond cooling? is this a joke? my (amd) cpu once heated to no less than 130°C due to a bug in the monitoring chip!
1711 2010-12-10 20:31:10 <xelister> boy, was everything crashing and hanging since I did tat
1712 2010-12-10 20:31:26 <johndrinkwater> not that it means much, but those are the kinda guys that help interest in a project :/
1713 2010-12-10 20:31:52 <Kiba> johndrinkwater: just because he work at redhat doesn't mean he understand bitcoin
1714 2010-12-10 20:31:56 <xelister> ati drivers where less stable on widows, then nowdays nvidia can be on linux
1715 2010-12-10 20:32:28 <midnightmagic> helmut: no joke. AMD hardware has given me the least problems of any hardware I've used, from server farm to desktop.
1716 2010-12-10 20:32:33 <johndrinkwater> Kiba, no, he doesnt. which is why I had a small conversation with him about it
1717 2010-12-10 20:33:12 <midnightmagic> so either I'm doing something right, or I'm doing something wrong iwth non-AMD hardware, or AMD is awesome. :)
1718 2010-12-10 20:33:21 <midnightmagic> (or I got lucky)
1719 2010-12-10 20:33:49 <helmut> midnightmagic: well I have to grant that said cpu still works. but a monitoring chip that switches off the cpu fan randomly is no fun!
1720 2010-12-10 20:34:27 <midnightmagic> helmut: that's brutal man. you sure it's not the mb? i thought the mb had the cool&quiet stuff in its own ken?
1721 2010-12-10 20:35:20 <helmut> midnightmagic: uh. probably. I don't have that much clue about hardware and hope that it just works(tm).
1722 2010-12-10 20:35:22 <midnightmagic> helmut: I truly do sympathize dude. I had some nasty overheating problems myself, thank god the pentium d 930 i have is so resilient..
1723 2010-12-10 20:35:27 <midnightmagic> helmut: :-)
1724 2010-12-10 20:37:12 <johndrinkwater> what happens if a decent amount of idiots lose their wallet.dat, coinage thats stuck not being used…
1725 2010-12-10 20:37:51 <helmut> yeah. I generate coins and then remove my wallet :-)
1726 2010-12-10 20:37:52 <Zarutian> johndrinkwater: thee marinee trench proplem? well it sucks
1727 2010-12-10 20:38:58 <johndrinkwater> can the 21 million cap be extended at all?
1728 2010-12-10 20:39:14 <Kiba> it's just a bunch of code
1729 2010-12-10 20:39:21 <helmut> johndrinkwater: well if you manage to update all installations. ;-)
1730 2010-12-10 20:39:22 <Kiba> of course it can
1731 2010-12-10 20:39:37 <Kiba> but then we can work with just 1 BTC and operate fine
1732 2010-12-10 20:39:47 <Kiba> we just use 0.00000x as our unit
1733 2010-12-10 20:40:02 <johndrinkwater> if we only had 1 BTC left, thats only a million units to share around
1734 2010-12-10 20:40:02 <helmut> it would definitely kill a bit of trust in bitcoin.
1735 2010-12-10 20:40:49 xelister has left ("fuck ati")
1736 2010-12-10 20:43:02 <wumpus> in that case they could be updated so that divisions smaller than 10^8 are possible
1737 2010-12-10 20:43:18 <[Noodles]> if we had only 1BTC left, people would have been very very very careless with their money
1738 2010-12-10 20:44:05 <Kiba> a backup backend for wallet!
1739 2010-12-10 20:44:21 <johndrinkwater> Internet based storage of wallets… called banks!
1740 2010-12-10 20:44:22 <Kiba> distributed backup
1741 2010-12-10 20:44:26 <johndrinkwater> ;)
1742 2010-12-10 20:44:39 <[Noodles]> if you trust those banks
1743 2010-12-10 20:44:41 xelister has joined
1744 2010-12-10 20:45:05 <Kiba> I want to make sure that they're not fractional reserve banking my deposit
1745 2010-12-10 20:45:08 mtgox has joined
1746 2010-12-10 20:45:55 <Kiba> almost time for 15 pushup
1747 2010-12-10 20:45:58 <Kiba> 5 situp
1748 2010-12-10 20:46:04 <Kiba> and a whole run around the neighborhood
1749 2010-12-10 20:49:39 <Teppy> I'm surprised that nobody has tried a fractional reserve bank yet. You could do one that decreases it's reserve according to a schedule, pays interest on deposited BTC, and loans BTC out at zero interest, and still "makes" BTC.
1750 2010-12-10 20:51:07 <Teppy> The next effect would be that the existing BTC circulates more.
1751 2010-12-10 20:51:11 <Kiba> Teppy: as long as people knows that they can't withdraw a certain amount
1752 2010-12-10 20:51:37 <Kiba> in fact, it should be saying "blah" is loaned out
1753 2010-12-10 20:51:57 <jgarzik> Teppy: mtgox is de facto fractional reserve
1754 2010-12-10 20:52:23 <Teppy> You could have that as a rule, though it may not be necessary. You could just have a rule that if there's a bank run, then withdrawal rules kick into effect. ANd do all the books transparently.
1755 2010-12-10 20:52:33 <Kiba> jgarzik: why is that? USD and LRUSD are mixed together
1756 2010-12-10 20:52:43 <tcatm> doublec: ping?
1757 2010-12-10 20:52:47 <Kiba> Teppy: just do it transparently
1758 2010-12-10 20:53:00 <Teppy> I don't think MtGox does anything fractional.
1759 2010-12-10 20:53:06 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1760 2010-12-10 20:53:19 <Kiba> maybe USD deposit from banks and LRUSD shouldn't be mixed together
1761 2010-12-10 20:54:01 <jgarzik> Teppy, Kiba: PP funds are still locked away, AFAIK
1762 2010-12-10 20:54:01 <Kiba> it could work like this: Ok, you deposit X from bank Y. We will purchase LRUSD on your behalf by Z.
1763 2010-12-10 20:54:11 <jgarzik> thus you cannot withdraw 100% of funds from mtgox
1764 2010-12-10 20:54:14 <jgarzik> (for all users)
1765 2010-12-10 20:54:32 <Kiba> jgarzik: ok, how much does he have left to make before it can return to full reserve status?
1766 2010-12-10 20:54:38 xelister has joined
1767 2010-12-10 20:54:42 <jgarzik> good question...
1768 2010-12-10 20:54:43 <Teppy> Ok, for dollars, until PP does their 6-month thing.
1769 2010-12-10 20:54:55 <jgarzik> Teppy: yes
1770 2010-12-10 20:54:57 <Teppy> But I'm talking about a fractional reserve bank that operates entirely in BTC.
1771 2010-12-10 20:55:12 <Kiba> jgarzik: if PP release their money at all
1772 2010-12-10 20:55:20 <jgarzik> Kiba: indeed
1773 2010-12-10 20:55:36 <Kiba> otherwise, MtGox will have to make recover by collecting transaction fees
1774 2010-12-10 20:55:45 <Kiba> which are 0.06%, which ain't much.
1775 2010-12-10 20:55:56 <Kiba> until volume shoot waaaaaaaaay up
1776 2010-12-10 20:57:03 * jgarzik chuckles at davout: "I'll leave you the bob = new InstanceLocatorFactoryProxyWrapper<GenericInstanceBuilder>();"
1777 2010-12-10 20:57:26 <Kiba> oh shit
1778 2010-12-10 20:57:32 <Kiba> gottach do my 15 pushup, 5 situp
1779 2010-12-10 20:57:38 <Kiba> and then run around the whole neighborhood
1780 2010-12-10 20:58:48 omglolbbq has joined
1781 2010-12-10 20:59:27 <omglolbbq> how long does it take to receive confirmation when bitcoins are sent?
1782 2010-12-10 21:00:30 <Kiba> 10 minute for each confirmation I believe. Around that
1783 2010-12-10 21:00:39 <omglolbbq> ah great i just  got it
1784 2010-12-10 21:01:15 <omglolbbq> my bitcoin client crashed directly when i pressed the send button, annd it showed the transaction in the client  so i tought i lost them
1785 2010-12-10 21:02:11 <omglolbbq> it took almost 70 minutes to get the first confirmation
1786 2010-12-10 21:02:34 <jgarzik> omglolbbq: transactions are resent until they make it into a block.  sometimes that might take a while, if the first send didn't go through
1787 2010-12-10 21:03:08 <omglolbbq> good :)
1788 2010-12-10 21:03:40 <omglolbbq> so, how would i pay at KFC with bitcoins if they aren't instant? i don't think they'll believe me on my word when i tell themm i realy sent the coins
1789 2010-12-10 21:04:49 <MT`AwAy> omglolbbq: that's the problem for now, there are various ways to workaround that but none definitive yet
1790 2010-12-10 21:05:14 <MT`AwAy> for now you can consider bitcoin as wire transfer, and you wouldn't pay KFC with a wire transfer
1791 2010-12-10 21:05:15 <MT`AwAy> :p
1792 2010-12-10 21:07:48 <helmut> yeah. I make bitcoins now.
1793 2010-12-10 21:07:51 <ArtForz> except bitcoin is quite a bit faster ;)
1794 2010-12-10 21:08:26 <helmut> is there some documentation for setting up a second machine and automatically transfering all generated bitcoins to the first?
1795 2010-12-10 21:08:55 <ArtForz> I think theres a post about that on the forums
1796 2010-12-10 21:09:54 <ArtForz> iirc a simple shell script run from crontab to automatically transfer current balance to a address
1797 2010-12-10 21:11:16 osmosis has joined
1798 2010-12-10 21:12:17 <helmut> ah.
1799 2010-12-10 21:18:48 * Kiba came back after an intense run
1800 2010-12-10 21:19:05 <xelister> Kiba: what happend, did some digger stole your bike
1801 2010-12-10 21:19:09 <xelister> >_>
1802 2010-12-10 21:19:25 <Kiba> xelister: exercise
1803 2010-12-10 21:19:30 * xelister is amazed how shitty aticonfig program is
1804 2010-12-10 21:19:35 <helmut> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=54.msg1135#msg1135 <- corporate firewalls blocking 8333, but not 3210x ports (this crap actually exists)
1805 2010-12-10 21:19:38 <Kiba> you gottach be able to run your prety to death
1806 2010-12-10 21:19:46 <Kiba> that what humans are made for, running preys to death
1807 2010-12-10 21:19:50 <Kiba> s/prety/prey
1808 2010-12-10 21:23:44 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1809 2010-12-10 21:24:57 <Rhonda> damn
1810 2010-12-10 21:25:07 <Rhonda> forgot that the code seems to be intel specific  %-/
1811 2010-12-10 21:25:44 <Rhonda> cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-msse2"
1812 2010-12-10 21:25:46 <Rhonda> cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-march=amdfam10"
1813 2010-12-10 21:26:19 <ArtForz> I think that's the sse2 4way sha2 code
1814 2010-12-10 21:26:46 <Rhonda> Any way to disable that?
1815 2010-12-10 21:27:15 <ArtForz> remove -DFOURWAYSSE2 from DEFS in makefile
1816 2010-12-10 21:28:04 * Rhonda is looking into it.
1817 2010-12-10 21:28:05 Grantt has joined
1818 2010-12-10 21:28:12 * Rhonda . o O ( I'm on powerpc btw. )
1819 2010-12-10 21:28:24 <ArtForz> good luck
1820 2010-12-10 21:28:53 <Rhonda> I know - but someone has to start. :)
1821 2010-12-10 21:28:54 <ArtForz> arch is managable, but we're so endian-unclean it's not even funny
1822 2010-12-10 21:29:08 <helmut> Jonas should get it uploaded to experimental...
1823 2010-12-10 21:29:20 <xelister> ati is shit
1824 2010-12-10 21:29:29 <Rhonda> ArtForz: oh, that's bad to hear
1825 2010-12-10 21:29:35 <ArtForz> no, ati is THE shit
1826 2010-12-10 21:29:42 <xelister> no, ati is shitty software developer
1827 2010-12-10 21:29:45 <xelister> aticonfig --adapter=all --delete-crossfire-chain
1828 2010-12-10 21:29:47 <xelister> aticonfig --cf=off
1829 2010-12-10 21:29:48 <xelister> aticonfig --cf=off --adapter=0
1830 2010-12-10 21:29:50 <xelister> aticonfig --cf=off --adapter=1
1831 2010-12-10 21:29:51 <xelister> aticonfig --cf=off --adapter=2
1832 2010-12-10 21:29:53 <ArtForz> who cares about horrible crappy drivers if its 4x faster?
1833 2010-12-10 21:29:57 <Rhonda> helmut: That won't make it endian clear just because of that. And … hi ;)
1834 2010-12-10 21:30:02 <xelister> and *still* the fucker says 'CrossFire is enabled on current device'
1835 2010-12-10 21:30:10 <xelister> which makes it x2 slower then it should be
1836 2010-12-10 21:30:13 <helmut> Rhonda: hi. but it would expose a lot of build failures. ;-)
1837 2010-12-10 21:30:46 <helmut> Rhonda: and once you know what is wrong, you can start fixing.
1838 2010-12-10 21:30:48 <ArtForz> honestly I think trying to get the current codebase endian-clean is a losing proposition
1839 2010-12-10 21:30:52 <Rhonda> helmut: Managed to compile it on lenny btw (with the help of some backports)
1840 2010-12-10 21:31:09 <Rhonda> The CLI one, obviously
1841 2010-12-10 21:31:18 <xelister> ArtForz: display endianness on each part/API connection -> document -> fix all
1842 2010-12-10 21:31:23 <helmut> Rhonda: could you document those? if it works for me I need to compile on lenny, too.
1843 2010-12-10 21:31:45 <MT`AwAy> can anyone tell me where in the bitcoin source are bootstrap nodes listed?
1844 2010-12-10 21:31:47 <ArtForz> xelister: good luck
1845 2010-12-10 21:32:03 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I think that's what irc is for.
1846 2010-12-10 21:32:08 <Rhonda> helmut: on monday, yes
1847 2010-12-10 21:32:14 <MT`AwAy> helmut: bootstrap nodes are used if irc is not available
1848 2010-12-10 21:32:15 <helmut> Rhonda: thanks!
1849 2010-12-10 21:32:22 <helmut> MT`AwAy: ahh. :-)
1850 2010-12-10 21:32:42 <MT`AwAy> I just want to know where that is
1851 2010-12-10 21:32:54 <ArtForz> iirc net.cpp
1852 2010-12-10 21:33:21 <ArtForz> line 810+ in r198
1853 2010-12-10 21:33:28 <helmut> MT`AwAy: what about pnSeed?
1854 2010-12-10 21:33:37 <ArtForz> thats the bootstrap node IPs
1855 2010-12-10 21:34:02 <ArtForz> dont remember if they're BE or LE
1856 2010-12-10 21:34:24 <MT`AwAy> mh
1857 2010-12-10 21:34:26 <ArtForz> bootstrap node port is always 8333
1858 2010-12-10 21:34:34 <MT`AwAy> used for testnet or normal net? (or both)?
1859 2010-12-10 21:34:39 <helmut> is port configurable by now?
1860 2010-12-10 21:34:42 <ArtForz> both (I think)
1861 2010-12-10 21:34:54 <MT`AwAy> ok
1862 2010-12-10 21:34:57 <MT`AwAy> I'll try that then~
1863 2010-12-10 21:35:05 <ArtForz> haven't tried testnet IRCless bootstrapping
1864 2010-12-10 21:38:18 <necrodearia> bitcoin, bitdns, ... what other areas can be improved using p2p networks?
1865 2010-12-10 21:38:53 <tcatm> What about a p2p twitter system?
1866 2010-12-10 21:39:09 <helmut> I have to admit that the code poses a certain uglyness...
1867 2010-12-10 21:39:21 <helmut> necrodearia: ssl
1868 2010-12-10 21:39:30 <helmut> necrodearia: it's called monkeysphere
1869 2010-12-10 21:40:02 <ArtForz> imo main.cpp should be at least 5 files
1870 2010-12-10 21:40:41 <tcatm> code from main.h should be moved into .cpp files
1871 2010-12-10 21:41:26 <xelister> tcatm: freenet is afaik implementing some twitter-like thing
1872 2010-12-10 21:42:04 <tcatm> xelister: With a linked chain?
1873 2010-12-10 21:42:04 <helmut> wow. bitcoind checks disk space before writing!
1874 2010-12-10 21:42:24 <helmut> so it only leaves a race condition. ;-)
1875 2010-12-10 21:43:05 <ArtForz> 0.x% chance of race condition > 100% chance of running out of space and corrupting DBs
1876 2010-12-10 21:43:42 <helmut> :-p
1877 2010-12-10 21:44:21 <MT`AwAy> http://pastebin.com/3uJTZLN8 <- definition of networks (I still have to add more stuff, like known blocks, genesis block, etc)
1878 2010-12-10 21:44:22 <helmut> yeah I always check my /tmp files exist, before I create them, too.
1879 2010-12-10 21:44:24 <necrodearia> Are there any developments established for bitdns or is it an idea as of yet?
1880 2010-12-10 21:45:09 <Zarutian> necrodearia: what is bitdns? Something like bitcoin but with name records instead of btc?
1881 2010-12-10 21:45:20 <MT`AwAy> Zarutian: yep
1882 2010-12-10 21:45:24 <MT`AwAy> xD
1883 2010-12-10 21:45:24 <necrodearia> Zarutian, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.0
1884 2010-12-10 21:46:09 <xelister> tcatm: hm?
1885 2010-12-10 21:46:15 <MT`AwAy> anyway for now I'll test my client only on testnet
1886 2010-12-10 21:46:21 <helmut> uhm. you know that an int is only supposed to hold at least 16 bits?
1887 2010-12-10 21:46:23 <MT`AwAy> I need a testnet node on a server
1888 2010-12-10 21:46:43 <helmut> how could you possibly store an ip address in 16 bits???
1889 2010-12-10 21:46:45 <xelister> MT`AwAy: is there working software tha tyou know of
1890 2010-12-10 21:46:47 <MT`AwAy> helmut: you're talking to who?
1891 2010-12-10 21:46:52 <ArtForz> on any sane system ints are 32 bits
1892 2010-12-10 21:46:54 <helmut> MT`AwAy: no clue.
1893 2010-12-10 21:47:04 <ArtForz> and yes, it should be a uint32_t
1894 2010-12-10 21:47:16 * MT`AwAy uses quint32 for storing ips
1895 2010-12-10 21:47:24 <helmut> ArtForz++
1896 2010-12-10 21:47:54 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1897 2010-12-10 21:47:58 <MT`AwAy> unfortunately some compilers out there do not understand C99 *cough*VisualC*cough*
1898 2010-12-10 21:48:04 <ArtForz> huh?
1899 2010-12-10 21:48:59 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C99#Implementations
1900 2010-12-10 21:49:02 <ArtForz> afaik anything > VC6 has stdint.h
1901 2010-12-10 21:49:05 <MT`AwAy> "Microsoft Visual Studio	No"
1902 2010-12-10 21:49:36 <MT`AwAy> most of the C99 features are missing from visual studio, maybe they only ported stdint.h
1903 2010-12-10 21:49:47 <helmut> what you say? I came across problems defining a Foo *&foo(somemap[descr]); with visual crap too.
1904 2010-12-10 21:49:49 <MT`AwAy> anyway microsoft is being a shit, using 20 years old standard
1905 2010-12-10 21:50:05 <ArtForz> well, you can always work around that with config magic
1906 2010-12-10 21:50:08 <MT`AwAy> anyway VisualC should just die
1907 2010-12-10 21:50:13 <Zarutian> MicroSoft using a standard? unheard of!
1908 2010-12-10 21:50:13 <ArtForz> arent we using mingw for win32 builds anyways?
1909 2010-12-10 21:50:19 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: no idea
1910 2010-12-10 21:50:25 <MT`AwAy> (I do, for my builds)
1911 2010-12-10 21:50:33 * helmut wonders whether it builds with clang. ;-)
1912 2010-12-10 21:51:01 <MT`AwAy> https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,6.0.html <- I can talk with my wallet
1913 2010-12-10 21:51:40 <ArtForz> *shakes magic 8-ball* Outlook not so good
1914 2010-12-10 21:52:15 <ArtForz> btw, nope, doesnt look like testnet can bootstrap off hardcoded node list
1915 2010-12-10 21:52:30 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: on the testnet irc channel, there are only 3 nodes :D
1916 2010-12-10 21:53:02 <ArtForz> btw, what do you think of bootstrap-only not-quite-nodes?
1917 2010-12-10 21:53:14 <MT`AwAy> ?
1918 2010-12-10 21:53:14 <albatross_> lol
1919 2010-12-10 21:53:26 <MT`AwAy> nodes that would only give ips of more nodes ?
1920 2010-12-10 21:53:27 <johndrinkwater> how not-quite are they?
1921 2010-12-10 21:53:33 <ArtForz> yep
1922 2010-12-10 21:53:39 <MT`AwAy> wouldn't be difficult
1923 2010-12-10 21:54:02 <ArtForz> it's pretty easy to make my python half-a-node act as a addr DB/relay
1924 2010-12-10 21:54:18 davex___ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1925 2010-12-10 21:54:21 <MT`AwAy> it'd still need to connect to other nodes to know them and see if they are up
1926 2010-12-10 21:54:35 <ArtForz> yep
1927 2010-12-10 21:54:47 davex__ has joined
1928 2010-12-10 21:54:50 <MT`AwAy> btw the irc channel has ~850 users, so we can assume there are ~850 bitcoin users out there (a bit more with all the people using noirc)
1929 2010-12-10 21:55:01 <davex__> ArtForz, what's the point of that?
1930 2010-12-10 21:55:11 <slush_cz1> ArtForz: Do you have any python wallet implementation?
1931 2010-12-10 21:55:15 <ArtForz> nope
1932 2010-12-10 21:55:31 <davex__> i.e. doesn't seem like it helps with the cancer nodes problem.
1933 2010-12-10 21:55:36 <ArtForz> my current code is pretty much a network-only node
1934 2010-12-10 21:55:39 * MT`AwAy almost got a C wallet implementation
1935 2010-12-10 21:55:55 <MT`AwAy> it's a binary that acts as wallet, can generate addresses, sign transactions, etc
1936 2010-12-10 21:56:00 <ArtForz> = addr/tx/block storage and forwarding
1937 2010-12-10 21:56:17 <slush_cz1> ArtForz: Is that opensource? I would like to learn more about network itself, but Im not good in C and does not understand official client much
1938 2010-12-10 21:56:19 <MT`AwAy> (or at least, will be able to)
1939 2010-12-10 21:56:44 <ArtForz> I pasted the network message handling stuff a few weeks back or so
1940 2010-12-10 21:56:56 <ArtForz> needs some updating for 0.3.14 addr messages
1941 2010-12-10 21:57:08 nelisky has joined
1942 2010-12-10 21:57:12 <helmut> ArtForz: you're doing a python rewrite? is that public?
1943 2010-12-10 21:57:25 <ArtForz> not a full rewrite
1944 2010-12-10 21:57:43 <ArtForz> it's basically just enough to connect to nodes and receive/send network messages
1945 2010-12-10 21:58:10 <ArtForz> I wrote it to connect to a single node and get "live" block/tx updates
1946 2010-12-10 21:58:36 darrob has joined
1947 2010-12-10 21:58:58 <slush_cz1> Personally I'm quite interested in full python reimplementation of client.
1948 2010-12-10 21:59:00 <helmut> is it published?
1949 2010-12-10 21:59:16 <helmut> slush_cz1: well not the generator, but everything else. ;-)
1950 2010-12-10 21:59:42 <slush_cz1> I would like to meet another people and maybe start with that. Unfortunately there is so bad docs
1951 2010-12-10 21:59:53 <helmut> docs? what's that?
1952 2010-12-10 22:00:23 <slush_cz1> helmut: Yes, there are plenty of great miners already
1953 2010-12-10 22:00:39 <slush_cz1> protocol docs, internal business logic etc
1954 2010-12-10 22:00:48 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/ZSM7iHZw
1955 2010-12-10 22:00:50 <helmut> you already have the code!!11oneone
1956 2010-12-10 22:00:50 <slush_cz1> protocol is not enough to reimplement full client
1957 2010-12-10 22:01:27 <ArtForz> this implements 0.3.12 network protocol
1958 2010-12-10 22:01:41 <slush_cz1> coool
1959 2010-12-10 22:02:05 <helmut> plus you can leave out the bignum implenetation, cause python has long.
1960 2010-12-10 22:02:07 <xelister> ArtForz: how to disable again the crossfire crap?
1961 2010-12-10 22:02:13 <helmut> ArtForz: thanks!
1962 2010-12-10 22:02:27 <ArtForz> code is public domain
1963 2010-12-10 22:03:04 <slush_cz1> thats really great. I will play with that during weekend
1964 2010-12-10 22:03:22 <ArtForz> xelister: delete xfire chains, stop X, make sure all GPUs are listed as devices in xorg.conf and xfire chains are still deleted, restart xorg
1965 2010-12-10 22:03:51 <ArtForz> for some reason fglrx really likes to re-enable xfire on stopping X
1966 2010-12-10 22:04:33 <ArtForz> 0.3.14 changed addr format a bit
1967 2010-12-10 22:05:19 <helmut> ArtForz: your code somewhat better documents what's going on than the c++ code.
1968 2010-12-10 22:05:31 <xelister> ArtForz: yeah that is what I did
1969 2010-12-10 22:05:36 <Grantt> anyone got a clue how to downgrade ati drivers on win7 ? I have ATI Radeon HD 5650, which does not support openCL with the latest driver (10.11), BUT catalys software REFUSES to downgrade to the 10.10Ehotfix (which has the proper driver for use with openCL & my card)
1970 2010-12-10 22:05:43 <xelister> ati should die in hell for their catalyst crfap
1971 2010-12-10 22:05:44 <slush_cz1> thats true. It is more readable than C
1972 2010-12-10 22:05:45 <xelister> ati should die in hell for their catalyst crap
1973 2010-12-10 22:06:09 <slush_cz1> Grantt: I simply installed old drivers on top of new...
1974 2010-12-10 22:06:31 <slush_cz1> ...so that worked for me :(
1975 2010-12-10 22:06:33 * xelister bitches some more about how shitty ati software can be
1976 2010-12-10 22:06:35 <Grantt> how ? i tried and it just tells me that since my drivers are up to date it doesnt need to install them :(
1977 2010-12-10 22:06:39 <ArtForz> Grantt: uninstall driver, use ccleaner, install old driver
1978 2010-12-10 22:06:52 <helmut> can I report little bugs with one-line fixes here? (0.3.10)
1979 2010-12-10 22:07:27 <helmut> err 0.3.18 of course
1980 2010-12-10 22:08:02 <ArtForz> imo better to post em in dev forums
1981 2010-12-10 22:08:44 <helmut> that requires yet another account.
1982 2010-12-10 22:09:05 <ArtForz> you dont have a account on bitcoin.org forum?
1983 2010-12-10 22:09:13 <helmut> thing is in util.cpp in function strprintf the wrong delete is used. it should be delete[] not delete
1984 2010-12-10 22:12:13 <helmut> ArtForz: I damn hate accounts. I'm glad I don't need one for participating in bitcoin.
1985 2010-12-10 22:12:38 <ArtForz> yeah... looks like a bug
1986 2010-12-10 22:12:53 <ArtForz> though I doubt we're hitting that codepath
1987 2010-12-10 22:13:15 <helmut> yeah. that's why noone noticed so far.
1988 2010-12-10 22:13:42 <ArtForz> imo we shouldnt be doing this anyways
1989 2010-12-10 22:13:53 <ArtForz> just truncate to 50k like error(...) does
1990 2010-12-10 22:14:10 <helmut> oh and p = new char[limit]; cannot fail.
1991 2010-12-10 22:14:20 <helmut> if it fails, it throws an exception
1992 2010-12-10 22:14:59 <helmut> (cannot fail means cannot yield NULL)
1993 2010-12-10 22:15:16 <ArtForz> yeah, looks like this used to be a malloc/free ... *g*
1994 2010-12-10 22:15:59 <helmut> and then someone incorrectly converted it to new[] and delete. wow.
1995 2010-12-10 22:16:26 <helmut> I better look at your python code. that's far less pain.
1996 2010-12-10 22:17:12 <ArtForz> it's ugly as hell
1997 2010-12-10 22:17:30 <ArtForz> I should really implement a generic serialize/deserialize class
1998 2010-12-10 22:18:43 <helmut> ahh I see.
1999 2010-12-10 22:18:57 <helmut> I wrote such a thingy not long ago. you might be able to use it.
2000 2010-12-10 22:19:13 albatross_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2001 2010-12-10 22:19:20 <Zarutian> ArtForz: what is wrong with Pickle, Banana. YAML writer (or what it is called) and co?
2002 2010-12-10 22:19:40 <ArtForz> err... we need to ser/deser to bitcoin-Cpp compatible format
2003 2010-12-10 22:19:47 <Zarutian> I see
2004 2010-12-10 22:20:06 <helmut> cause I had to parse a binary map like { net16string (key) net32string (value) } * \0\0 for omapi.
2005 2010-12-10 22:21:34 <helmut> ArtForz: if you have a bit of time you could look into the parser used at pypureomapi. the interesting portions are parse_map, parse_chain and InBuffer.
2006 2010-12-10 22:21:42 theymos has joined
2007 2010-12-10 22:22:21 <ArtForz> btw, I once wrote a java serialized object compatible serdes for python :P
2008 2010-12-10 22:29:55 <helmut> ArtForz: i hope you don't run your code against unknown peers. it has quite trivial dos condition.
2009 2010-12-10 22:30:21 <ArtForz> it's connected to 1 node, mine
2010 2010-12-10 22:30:27 <helmut> good
2011 2010-12-10 22:31:04 <ArtForz> all I'm using it for is grabbing blocks as my node receives them and updating my block stats files
2012 2010-12-10 22:31:40 <helmut> ArtForz: and the code is not as bad as you claim it to be. I got a much better clue now about what's going on.
2013 2010-12-10 22:32:57 <ArtForz> btw, thats also the reason why I dont bother validationg blocks and TX, I trust my node to not pass on invalid data
2014 2010-12-10 22:33:03 Grantt has quit ()
2015 2010-12-10 22:35:48 <ArtForz> not to mention to properly validate blocks + TX I'd have to keep block + tx DB, implement script, ...
2016 2010-12-10 22:36:08 <ArtForz> easier to let the bitcoin node do that
2017 2010-12-10 22:39:39 <mndrix> is there a bitcoind command to list all accounts?
2018 2010-12-10 22:40:18 <ArtForz> so far no, but there should be
2019 2010-12-10 22:44:42 <appamatto> mndrix, list every account in the block chain?
2020 2010-12-10 22:45:31 <ArtForz> huh?
2021 2010-12-10 22:45:37 <MT`AwAy> I think he means all the accounts in the wallet
2022 2010-12-10 22:45:42 <ArtForz> yeah
2023 2010-12-10 22:45:43 <appamatto> ah I see
2024 2010-12-10 22:45:56 <ArtForz> there are no accounts in the block chain or in transactions, only addresses
2025 2010-12-10 22:46:08 <appamatto> right, I thought he meant addresses
2026 2010-12-10 22:46:08 <ArtForz> your address->account mapping is stored in wallet
2027 2010-12-10 22:46:11 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2028 2010-12-10 22:46:20 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2029 2010-12-10 22:46:21 <MT`AwAy> bitcoind listreceivedbyaccount 0 true
2030 2010-12-10 22:46:33 <MT`AwAy> (for mndrix )
2031 2010-12-10 22:46:40 Kiba` has joined
2032 2010-12-10 22:46:47 <ArtForz> but thats really more of a hack
2033 2010-12-10 22:46:47 <appamatto> How did the many small transactions attack turn out?
2034 2010-12-10 22:46:54 <MT`AwAy> (bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true might be more useful)
2035 2010-12-10 22:47:03 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: not having much impact
2036 2010-12-10 22:47:23 <ArtForz> didnt do much after m0 fixed getwork
2037 2010-12-10 22:47:29 redengin has joined
2038 2010-12-10 22:47:35 Toadyonps3 has joined
2039 2010-12-10 22:47:37 <Kiba`> in 10 days, we made 3000 posts!
2040 2010-12-10 22:47:59 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2041 2010-12-10 22:48:14 <MT`AwAy> mh
2042 2010-12-10 22:48:27 akem has joined
2043 2010-12-10 22:48:27 akem has quit (Changing host)
2044 2010-12-10 22:48:27 akem has joined
2045 2010-12-10 22:48:32 <MT`AwAy> ok, so anyone knows why when I start bitcoind -server -daemon -testnet it tries to bind on live net and not on testnet ?
2046 2010-12-10 22:48:55 <ArtForz> you forgot -rpcport
2047 2010-12-10 22:49:00 echelon has joined
2048 2010-12-10 22:49:14 <ArtForz> rpc tries to bind to 8332 even with -testnet
2049 2010-12-10 22:49:18 <MT`AwAy> :o
2050 2010-12-10 22:49:40 <MT`AwAy> ooooo
2051 2010-12-10 22:50:33 <appamatto> kiba, is that a lot?
2052 2010-12-10 22:50:45 <MT`AwAy> yay
2053 2010-12-10 22:50:46 <MT`AwAy> it works
2054 2010-12-10 22:50:57 <mndrix> MT`AwAy: that'll work. thanks
2055 2010-12-10 22:51:16 <MT`AwAy> ok, now I have a server node running on testnet, it's going to help me writing my bitcoin client without disturbing normal people
2056 2010-12-10 22:51:55 <helmut> MT`AwAy: that listreceivedbyaccount 0 true line belongs to a faq.
2057 2010-12-10 22:52:02 <MT`AwAy> helmut: most likely
2058 2010-12-10 22:52:17 <ArtForz> or wait until gavin adds listaccounts ;)
2059 2010-12-10 22:52:30 <helmut> nah that would be far too easy.
2060 2010-12-10 22:52:42 <MT`AwAy> well, list "received by" accounts offers this kind of feature
2061 2010-12-10 22:53:12 <MT`AwAy> (and anyway listreceivedbyaddress is better, at least that's what I think)
2062 2010-12-10 22:53:36 <helmut> just post it to some faq. ;-)
2063 2010-12-10 22:54:38 <helmut> damn about 1 in 5 of the links in http://www.bitcoin.org/trade seem dead
2064 2010-12-10 22:54:52 <MT`AwAy> helmut: use kalyhost, it's up :D
2065 2010-12-10 22:55:17 * MT`AwAy downloading testnet blocks
2066 2010-12-10 22:56:12 blablaa has joined
2067 2010-12-10 22:58:20 maximi89 has joined
2068 2010-12-10 22:59:26 xelister has joined
2069 2010-12-10 23:01:56 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2070 2010-12-10 23:04:17 blablaa has quit ()
2071 2010-12-10 23:05:56 <MT`AwAy> mh
2072 2010-12-10 23:05:59 <MT`AwAy> already 8 am
2073 2010-12-10 23:06:03 <MT`AwAy> no wonder I felt a bit tired
2074 2010-12-10 23:08:19 <helmut> MT`AwAy: wait. I can make about 50 bit coins a day and kalyhost charges only 20 per month?
2075 2010-12-10 23:09:00 ElectRo` has joined
2076 2010-12-10 23:09:04 <MT`AwAy> helmut: payment is per year
2077 2010-12-10 23:09:17 <MT`AwAy> helmut: but yeah, the prices displayed on kalyhost are computed based on current bitcoin exchange rate
2078 2010-12-10 23:09:51 <MT`AwAy> https://www.kalyhost.com/vps.html?Currency=BTC <- VPS are 100BTC/month
2079 2010-12-10 23:09:55 <helmut> that sounds as if one can make real money by letting a machine sit and crunch numbers!?
2080 2010-12-10 23:10:02 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2081 2010-12-10 23:10:13 <MT`AwAy> helmut: soon enough you'll make less money
2082 2010-12-10 23:10:36 <ArtForz> if difficulty keeps rising like this even payoff of a 5970 @ $0.10/kWh is uncertain
2083 2010-12-10 23:10:39 <MT`AwAy> or if bitcoin value goes down, prices displayed on kalyhost will increase (it depends on current exchange rate)
2084 2010-12-10 23:10:50 * Kiba` takes his pencil out and goes to khan academy
2085 2010-12-10 23:10:56 <appamatto> I think hosters tend to set rates assuming that CPU usage will be low on average
2086 2010-12-10 23:11:02 <ArtForz> yup
2087 2010-12-10 23:11:13 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: it /is/ low on average
2088 2010-12-10 23:11:17 <MT`AwAy> it's fractional hosting :D
2089 2010-12-10 23:11:19 <helmut> I could set up a cruncher there, too. :-)
2090 2010-12-10 23:11:22 <appamatto> MT haha
2091 2010-12-10 23:11:29 <ArtForz> and it'll be slow as hell
2092 2010-12-10 23:11:34 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I use a miner on one of my vps, just to test
2093 2010-12-10 23:11:47 <MT`AwAy> I generate ~1 million hashes/sec
2094 2010-12-10 23:11:56 <appamatto> whaaat
2095 2010-12-10 23:11:57 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2096 2010-12-10 23:12:01 <helmut> not bad
2097 2010-12-10 23:12:03 <ArtForz> while a single OCed 5970 does > 600Mhash/s ...
2098 2010-12-10 23:12:06 <appamatto> Isn't that a ridiculously large number?
2099 2010-12-10 23:12:15 <appamatto> oh.
2100 2010-12-10 23:12:18 <MT`AwAy>     "hashespersec" : 1089556,
2101 2010-12-10 23:12:30 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 1089
2102 2010-12-10 23:12:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1089 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 27 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 37 minutes, and 56 seconds
2103 2010-12-10 23:12:49 <appamatto> Wow that's really bad
2104 2010-12-10 23:13:02 <ArtForz> and at $.10/kWh that 5970 costs about $25/month in power
2105 2010-12-10 23:13:05 <MT`AwAy> that's not too bad for a cpu, especially a shared one
2106 2010-12-10 23:13:11 <appamatto> Have you taken a hit with the current diff., ArtForz?
2107 2010-12-10 23:13:20 <ArtForz> yeah, I'm down to 1250btc/day
2108 2010-12-10 23:13:41 <ArtForz> at least until my next 12 5970s arrive
2109 2010-12-10 23:13:43 <appamatto> that's $250 a day
2110 2010-12-10 23:14:06 <ArtForz> then I should be back at ~ 2kBTC/day
2111 2010-12-10 23:14:14 <appamatto> you are so crazy
2112 2010-12-10 23:14:15 <helmut> I'm glad that I still have a electricity flat rate.
2113 2010-12-10 23:14:15 <appamatto> haha
2114 2010-12-10 23:14:43 <ArtForz> well... it's also >$20k in hardware
2115 2010-12-10 23:14:46 <MT`AwAy> blocks on testnet are slow as hell~
2116 2010-12-10 23:15:00 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet
2117 2010-12-10 23:15:14 <appamatto> ArtForz, interesting that you're spending tens of thousands to get what the early adopters got for nearly free
2118 2010-12-10 23:15:23 <ArtForz> yeah... someone tested their GPU miner on testnet *walks away whistling*
2119 2010-12-10 23:15:29 <ArtForz> yep
2120 2010-12-10 23:15:50 <ArtForz> guess they're holding on to their BTC hoping value will increase further
2121 2010-12-10 23:15:52 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2122 2010-12-10 23:17:23 <appamatto> the total BTC economy has doubled since I found out about it
2123 2010-12-10 23:17:29 <appamatto> almost $1million now
2124 2010-12-10 23:17:40 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: it'll go up and down
2125 2010-12-10 23:18:01 <ArtForz> I'm hoping total hashrate keeps rising
2126 2010-12-10 23:19:03 <MT`AwAy> it should
2127 2010-12-10 23:19:44 <MT`AwAy> especially if services around bitcoins grow more
2128 2010-12-10 23:19:56 <appamatto> ArtForz, why?
2129 2010-12-10 23:20:20 <MT`AwAy> (yesterday someone spent a lot of bitcoins on my site, so I made a donation to EFF :p )
2130 2010-12-10 23:20:24 <appamatto> I wonder if we could calculate the total amount of SHA2 hashing going on world wide and see when bitcoin overtakes it
2131 2010-12-10 23:20:38 <ArtForz> because my next design is pretty largescale
2132 2010-12-10 23:20:50 <appamatto> ArtForz ooo, any hints?
2133 2010-12-10 23:21:00 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: many pseudo-random generators use sha2, so there must be already a /lot/ of sha2 being computed
2134 2010-12-10 23:21:38 <ArtForz> ASICs
2135 2010-12-10 23:21:42 <appamatto> MT`AwAy, I guess, if they are cranking at 100% CPU they will still only be SHA2 with a fraction of that
2136 2010-12-10 23:22:13 <appamatto> ArtForz, not an FPGA?
2137 2010-12-10 23:22:38 <ArtForz> nope, FPGA is too inefficient
2138 2010-12-10 23:22:53 <ArtForz> barely beats GPUs on hash/W and sucks for hash/$
2139 2010-12-10 23:22:55 <appamatto> So an ASIC will need some kind of chip fab?
2140 2010-12-10 23:22:59 <ArtForz> yep
2141 2010-12-10 23:23:14 <appamatto> How would the total hashrate affect that plan?
2142 2010-12-10 23:23:18 <MT`AwAy> shouldn't be too hard to wire transistors to "implement" sha256 in a cpu as a native instruction
2143 2010-12-10 23:23:19 <appamatto> It seems like the sooner the better
2144 2010-12-10 23:24:27 <ArtForz> well.. if you want to see a single miner with >66% of total network hashrate ...
2145 2010-12-10 23:24:33 <appamatto> haha
2146 2010-12-10 23:24:40 <appamatto> As long as it's benign
2147 2010-12-10 23:25:06 <appamatto> do you have the ability to do that?
2148 2010-12-10 23:25:16 <ArtForz> right now? no
2149 2010-12-10 23:25:24 <appamatto> I mean, design an ASIC
2150 2010-12-10 23:25:28 <MT`AwAy> guess it requires some research
2151 2010-12-10 23:25:43 <ArtForz> I already got a design that works in simulation
2152 2010-12-10 23:27:28 <appamatto> wow
2153 2010-12-10 23:27:36 <appamatto> What's the next step?
2154 2010-12-10 23:29:12 <ArtForz> deciding if it's a good idea to invest about $200k in it
2155 2010-12-10 23:30:15 <appamatto> holy moley
2156 2010-12-10 23:30:23 <ArtForz> fixed costs for a production run are pretty high
2157 2010-12-10 23:30:47 <appamatto> if you actually produced 100 units or whatever wouldn't you completely dominate mining?
2158 2010-12-10 23:30:53 <ArtForz> exactly
2159 2010-12-10 23:31:33 <appamatto> It seems like it wouldn't pay off unless you could sustain it for a while
2160 2010-12-10 23:31:39 <helmut> so if someone breaks sha256, bitcoins will vanish?
2161 2010-12-10 23:31:40 <appamatto> or possibly sell units to other miners
2162 2010-12-10 23:31:53 <appamatto> helmut, the hashing algorithm can be changed
2163 2010-12-10 23:32:08 <theymos> Does this patch look right? http://pastebin.com/LtiWuZxV It's supposed to eliminate restrictions on non-standard transactions, but also make them ineligible for block free space.
2164 2010-12-10 23:32:14 <helmut> appamatto: and you upgrade the network? ;-)
2165 2010-12-10 23:32:31 <appamatto> In thinking about bitx I'm settling on extremely secure hashing, since speed doesn't matter for an app like bitcoin
2166 2010-12-10 23:32:41 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2167 2010-12-10 23:32:52 <ArtForz> that $200k setup would be about 200% of the current total network hashrate
2168 2010-12-10 23:33:08 davex__ has joined
2169 2010-12-10 23:33:08 <tcatm> theymos: looks right..
2170 2010-12-10 23:33:23 <ArtForz> and beat GPUs on Mh/W by quite a large margin
2171 2010-12-10 23:33:26 <theymos> tcatm: Thanks.
2172 2010-12-10 23:33:57 altamic has joined
2173 2010-12-10 23:34:16 <appamatto> ArtForz, 50% of bitcoins over 3 months would be ...
2174 2010-12-10 23:34:38 <ArtForz> 324kBTC or so
2175 2010-12-10 23:35:42 <appamatto> seems like you'd need about half a year averaging 50% to recoup
2176 2010-12-10 23:36:05 <appamatto> But you could probably sell some units as well
2177 2010-12-10 23:36:13 <ArtForz> more like 9 months, it still uses quite a bit of power
2178 2010-12-10 23:36:44 <ArtForz> but should beat even 5970s by a factor of 5 or so on hash/W
2179 2010-12-10 23:36:56 <appamatto> you could sell units at a price that would offset the cost to make and the cost they would exact on your mining operation
2180 2010-12-10 23:37:26 <Kiba`> so a gradual distribution of GPU machinery to the population at large?
2181 2010-12-10 23:37:46 <appamatto> on the other hand, you might raise the price of btc because you are making the system more secure
2182 2010-12-10 23:38:06 <ArtForz> the problem is, it beats GPU mining by a large margin for hash/W
2183 2010-12-10 23:38:12 <appamatto> imagine the slashdot that would result when the world finds out some dude started fabless production for btc mining
2184 2010-12-10 23:38:41 <ArtForz> so by throwing something like this at the current network it'd make GPU mining (while paying for power) unprofitable pretty much over night
2185 2010-12-10 23:38:51 <necrodearia> I think there should be a single serving site that displays only the real-time exchange rate of bitcoin to other currencies.  And only a text value that can be parsed by other sites/services for better determining the rate.
2186 2010-12-10 23:39:02 <appamatto> ArtForz wow, that could actually knock out the GPU miners!
2187 2010-12-10 23:39:27 <appamatto> necrodearia, you can scrape that from bitcoinwatch.com
2188 2010-12-10 23:39:41 <appamatto> If you knock out GPU miners your share of the mining will explode
2189 2010-12-10 23:39:42 <Kiba`> bitcoinchart
2190 2010-12-10 23:40:01 <tcatm> necrodearia: Would an update every 60s be realtime enough?
2191 2010-12-10 23:40:09 <ArtForz> actually selling the hardware sounds like a good plan
2192 2010-12-10 23:40:39 <ArtForz> it'd avoid having a single miner completely dominating the network
2193 2010-12-10 23:41:29 <ArtForz> I and cant really get a much smaller run fabbed without completely destroying hash/$
2194 2010-12-10 23:41:37 <MT`AwAy> :D
2195 2010-12-10 23:41:49 <necrodearia> tcatm I believe so
2196 2010-12-10 23:42:00 <tcatm> necrodearia: I'll add an json interface to bitcoincharts
2197 2010-12-10 23:42:08 <appamatto> ArtForz, you could sell them for btc :p
2198 2010-12-10 23:42:24 <necrodearia> tcatm, woo, thanks!
2199 2010-12-10 23:42:36 <MT`AwAy> well
2200 2010-12-10 23:42:45 <MT`AwAy> anyway it's soon 9 am, I'll go sleep a bit
2201 2010-12-10 23:42:51 <jgarzik> WINE just gained an OpenCL library wrapper.  Interesting.
2202 2010-12-10 23:42:52 noagendamarket has joined
2203 2010-12-10 23:43:02 <MT`AwAy> coding a bitcoin client was more fun than I expected :D
2204 2010-12-10 23:43:15 <appamatto> MT, cheers :)
2205 2010-12-10 23:43:20 <ArtForz> well... a single board would be about 2Gh/s and ~200W
2206 2010-12-10 23:43:26 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I take
2207 2010-12-10 23:43:27 <MT`AwAy> xD
2208 2010-12-10 23:43:43 <tcatm> How much would such a board cost?
2209 2010-12-10 23:43:48 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,6.0.html
2210 2010-12-10 23:43:52 <ArtForz> ... about $1k
2211 2010-12-10 23:44:06 <ArtForz> err... 2k
2212 2010-12-10 23:44:42 <ArtForz> I scaled it until I ended up at about same hash/$ as a 5970
2213 2010-12-10 23:44:43 <tcatm> $1/(Mh/s)?
2214 2010-12-10 23:44:49 <ArtForz> yep
2215 2010-12-10 23:45:21 <tcatm> If I had money to invest I'd buy a few.
2216 2010-12-10 23:45:32 <appamatto> ArtForz, you could go for a lower initial run, since you may be knocking out GPU miners
2217 2010-12-10 23:45:50 Kiba` is now known as kiba
2218 2010-12-10 23:45:50 <ArtForz> smaller run would drive $/board up quite a lot
2219 2010-12-10 23:46:17 <tcatm> Maybe it'd be a good idea to wait until bitcoin has a larger userbase.
2220 2010-12-10 23:46:26 <MT`AwAy> yeap
2221 2010-12-10 23:46:30 <appamatto> ArtForz, are you sure your design is maximally efficient?
2222 2010-12-10 23:46:33 <MT`AwAy> with an estimate <1000 running clients
2223 2010-12-10 23:46:36 <ArtForz> no
2224 2010-12-10 23:46:45 <appamatto> You may be able to use an asynchronous design and build your own pipelining etc.
2225 2010-12-10 23:46:57 <ArtForz> it's a fully pipelined SHA256 core
2226 2010-12-10 23:46:58 <kiba> how much would it cost?
2227 2010-12-10 23:47:02 <appamatto> so that a new hash comes out every clock cycle
2228 2010-12-10 23:47:07 <ArtForz> welll.. actually nealy-2-sha256
2229 2010-12-10 23:47:11 <MT`AwAy> kiba: he said $2k/board
2230 2010-12-10 23:47:14 <kiba> wow
2231 2010-12-10 23:47:18 <ArtForz> thats exactly what it does
2232 2010-12-10 23:47:20 <kiba> that's expensive
2233 2010-12-10 23:47:35 <ArtForz> $2k for 2Gh/s ?
2234 2010-12-10 23:47:42 <appamatto> ArtForz, hmm, then any idea how it could be made more efficient?
2235 2010-12-10 23:47:43 <johndrinkwater> wow, no € <-> BTC markets :o
2236 2010-12-10 23:47:48 <ArtForz> a 5970 is $500 and does ~600Mh/s OCed
2237 2010-12-10 23:47:59 <appamatto> ArtForz, does it change the price to print two complete units on one board?
2238 2010-12-10 23:47:59 <kiba> mtgox is a good service
2239 2010-12-10 23:48:04 <kiba> but we need more exchanges
2240 2010-12-10 23:48:16 * MT`AwAy does JPY exchange XD
2241 2010-12-10 23:48:23 <ArtForz> each board is actually 10 chips + bus controller + DC-DC converter
2242 2010-12-10 23:48:35 neolive has joined
2243 2010-12-10 23:48:39 maximi891 has joined
2244 2010-12-10 23:48:39 <neolive> hi..
2245 2010-12-10 23:48:42 <neolive> what is this place?
2246 2010-12-10 23:48:55 <MT`AwAy> neolive: irc
2247 2010-12-10 23:48:57 <ArtForz> current design has 10 boards per 3U rackmount case
2248 2010-12-10 23:49:02 <MT`AwAy> neolive: it's a live chat with people around the world
2249 2010-12-10 23:49:25 <appamatto> ArtForz is this completely custom, or is there a link I could look at or something?
2250 2010-12-10 23:49:31 <neolive> MT`AwAy: whats bitcoid
2251 2010-12-10 23:49:33 <neolive> *
2252 2010-12-10 23:49:39 maximi89 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2253 2010-12-10 23:49:40 <tcatm> ArtForz: Add LEDs that blink whenever a block is found to the panel :)
2254 2010-12-10 23:49:48 <appamatto> haha
2255 2010-12-10 23:49:50 <ArtForz> completely custom, somewhat inspired by deep crack and COPACOBANA
2256 2010-12-10 23:49:51 <noagendamarket> lol
2257 2010-12-10 23:49:52 <omglolbbq> is bitcoin still using irc  to find peers?
2258 2010-12-10 23:49:55 <MT`AwAy> neolive: http://bitcoin.org/ <- many explanations here, more on http://bitcoinme.com
2259 2010-12-10 23:49:57 <noagendamarket> star trek
2260 2010-12-10 23:49:57 asdf30 has joined
2261 2010-12-10 23:50:04 <MT`AwAy> omglolbbq: yep
2262 2010-12-10 23:50:25 <omglolbbq> hm that sucks
2263 2010-12-10 23:50:30 <tcatm> I guess there are people that'd pay some BTC for a livestream of those LEDs.
2264 2010-12-10 23:50:37 <MT`AwAy> omglolbbq: without irc it can still find peers, just take a bit more time
2265 2010-12-10 23:50:47 <omglolbbq> ok
2266 2010-12-10 23:51:23 asdf58 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2267 2010-12-10 23:52:27 <appamatto> ArtForz, hmm, I'm out of ideas for now :p
2268 2010-12-10 23:58:45 <appamatto> ArtForz, there are probably some interesting economics around selling the units, since the first ones are worth much more than the last ones
2269 2010-12-10 23:59:56 <MT`AwAy> also a risk nobody at all buys