1 2010-12-11 00:00:01 <MT`AwAy> then economy collapes
   2 2010-12-11 00:00:29 <theymos> ArtForz: You should take investments for that custom hardware venture. I would invest.
   3 2010-12-11 00:03:20 <neolive> hey
   4 2010-12-11 00:03:32 <neolive> would anyone like to advertise bitcoin on tv?
   5 2010-12-11 00:03:39 <neolive> so other people can learn how to use it?
   6 2010-12-11 00:05:40 ElectRo` has joined
   7 2010-12-11 00:06:42 ati_sucks has joined
   8 2010-12-11 00:06:46 <ati_sucks> 50 BTC
   9 2010-12-11 00:06:50 <ati_sucks> erm, 30 BTC
  10 2010-12-11 00:06:52 <ati_sucks> to anyone
  11 2010-12-11 00:07:19 <ati_sucks> that disables mother fucking crappy 5970's CrossShit mode on my linux box (permantently so it doesnt re-enable all the time)
  12 2010-12-11 00:07:33 <ati_sucks> following was tried and did not work: http://pastebin.ca/2016038
  13 2010-12-11 00:07:53 <ati_sucks> anyone? During next 30 minutes (time to have it working)
  14 2010-12-11 00:07:55 Granttt has joined
  15 2010-12-11 00:10:21 <brocktice> ati_sucks: hey
  16 2010-12-11 00:10:33 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  17 2010-12-11 00:10:44 <brocktice> ati_sucks: have you tried shutting down X, deleting chains, reinitializing everything with aticonfig, and then restarting X?\
  18 2010-12-11 00:11:27 <ati_sucks> brocktice:  but aticonfigshit will say it cant connect to X
  19 2010-12-11 00:11:54 <ArtForz> nuke it from orbit
  20 2010-12-11 00:12:03 <ati_sucks> ArtForz: I will return this crap to shop
  21 2010-12-11 00:12:23 <brocktice> ati_sucks: use 'sudo'
  22 2010-12-11 00:12:27 <ati_sucks> Ati drivers where shit 5+ years ago on windows, and they are shit now
  23 2010-12-11 00:12:29 <ArtForz> the card is fine, just your os and ATI drivers collaborate to fuck with you :P
  24 2010-12-11 00:12:37 <ati_sucks> brocktice: meh. Of course I am in root mode, with X (sux)
  25 2010-12-11 00:13:04 <ati_sucks> ArtForz: well, I find the ati driver quaility a crime on humanity, and therefore I return this shit to store
  26 2010-12-11 00:13:14 <brocktice> ati_sucks: log out of X
  27 2010-12-11 00:13:24 <ati_sucks> untill they one day fix their shit.. if 5 years didn't do it, perhaps Amd oversight will.
  28 2010-12-11 00:13:25 <brocktice> ati_sucks: shut it down
  29 2010-12-11 00:13:31 <brocktice> ati_sucks: and then do what I said
  30 2010-12-11 00:13:37 <ati_sucks> brocktice: ok
  31 2010-12-11 00:13:48 <brocktice> specifically
  32 2010-12-11 00:13:52 <brocktice> ps ax | grep X
  33 2010-12-11 00:13:56 <brocktice> make sure there's nothing
  34 2010-12-11 00:14:22 <ati_sucks> well ok. brb
  35 2010-12-11 00:14:29 <brocktice> then, aticonfig --cfd --adapter=all
  36 2010-12-11 00:14:36 <brocktice> aticonfig --initial --adapter=all -f
  37 2010-12-11 00:14:42 <brocktice> start X
  38 2010-12-11 00:14:49 <brocktice> verify with aticonfig --lscc
  39 2010-12-11 00:14:58 <ati_sucks> hm, perhaps I was missing  --adapter=all  from  the aticonfig
  40 2010-12-11 00:15:00 <ati_sucks> but
  41 2010-12-11 00:15:18 <ati_sucks> meh.. ok.
  42 2010-12-11 00:17:03 ati_sucks has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  43 2010-12-11 00:20:41 kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  44 2010-12-11 00:21:47 theadmin has joined
  45 2010-12-11 00:22:22 <brocktice> well, I've got to go for now
  46 2010-12-11 00:22:29 <brocktice> but if he gets it working and comes back...
  47 2010-12-11 00:22:46 Kiba has joined
  48 2010-12-11 00:22:53 <brocktice> 1AZRkYDH8dnwqsSD3ygyomo3VqwK2nV3J2
  49 2010-12-11 00:23:02 <theadmin> brocktice:  it appears to work.  Have yet to try what agter reboot and does it really work in mining
  50 2010-12-11 00:23:21 <theadmin> but it looks ok :)
  51 2010-12-11 00:23:23 * theadmin notes
  52 2010-12-11 00:23:24 <brocktice> theadmin: I had to go through that before
  53 2010-12-11 00:23:46 <theadmin> brocktice: well me too.. I fixed it with help from ArtForz  but then the fucking crap reseted
  54 2010-12-11 00:23:55 <theadmin> and wasted like 1 hour today on dicking around with it
  55 2010-12-11 00:24:04 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
  56 2010-12-11 00:24:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96924 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1859 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 49 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12412.36513707
  57 2010-12-11 00:24:09 * brocktice shrugs
  58 2010-12-11 00:24:16 <brocktice> might as well get it going as fast as you can
  59 2010-12-11 00:24:20 <brocktice> diff's not going down
  60 2010-12-11 00:24:21 <theadmin> :O  in fact.....  ati drivers could be bigger shit then flash. At least flash you can turn off/ignore/live without
  61 2010-12-11 00:24:58 theadmin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  62 2010-12-11 00:25:02 ElectRo` has joined
  63 2010-12-11 00:27:55 <ArtForz> dunno, I really didnt have much problems with 10.9 and 10.10
  64 2010-12-11 00:30:12 ElectRo` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  65 2010-12-11 00:35:57 <omglolbbq> if i use diablo miner, does it still work if i turn generation off in bitcoin itsself?
  66 2010-12-11 00:39:39 Lyspooner has joined
  67 2010-12-11 00:40:10 <jgarzik> omglolbbq: if it uses getwork (and IIRC, it does), yes.
  68 2010-12-11 00:42:35 <omglolbbq> i hope so cause cpu generating only adds 2000 khash and  it makes diablominer drop with over 10.000
  69 2010-12-11 00:43:02 <ArtForz> why not test on testnet?
  70 2010-12-11 00:43:39 <ArtForz> at a difficulty of 5 or so even 2-digit Mhash finds blocks pretty quickly
  71 2010-12-11 00:45:20 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
  72 2010-12-11 00:45:40 <omglolbbq> somebody should know for sure i think :)
  73 2010-12-11 00:45:55 <ArtForz> well, it works fine for me
  74 2010-12-11 00:46:05 <omglolbbq> without cpu generating?
  75 2010-12-11 00:46:09 <ArtForz> yep
  76 2010-12-11 00:46:19 <omglolbbq> then i don't see why it wouldnt work for me
  77 2010-12-11 00:50:54 xelister has joined
  78 2010-12-11 00:52:41 Jud_ has joined
  79 2010-12-11 00:53:58 <Jud_> bc,nexttarget
  80 2010-12-11 00:54:08 <Jud_> ;;bc,nexttarget
  81 2010-12-11 00:54:08 <gribble> 98783
  82 2010-12-11 00:54:18 <midnightmagic> LOL suddenly I want to see what happens with my machine on testnet..!
  83 2010-12-11 00:54:37 <Jud_> ;;bc,diff
  84 2010-12-11 00:54:37 <gribble> 12252.03471156
  85 2010-12-11 00:55:29 <xelister> what was brocktice's address
  86 2010-12-11 00:55:32 <xelister> )
  87 2010-12-11 00:55:39 Jud_ has left ()
  88 2010-12-11 00:55:40 <midnightmagic> 1AZRkYDH8dnwqsSD3ygyomo3VqwK2nV3J2
  89 2010-12-11 00:56:11 <xelister> brocktice: sent
  90 2010-12-11 00:56:30 <midnightmagic> that was trusting..
  91 2010-12-11 00:57:59 spacemagic has joined
  92 2010-12-11 00:58:04 <xelister> =)
  93 2010-12-11 00:58:18 <spacemagic> : } D
  94 2010-12-11 00:59:18 <spacemagic> anyone know if the 173.255.205.10 bitcoin-pool is down?
  95 2010-12-11 01:00:25 <ArtForz> wonder if I can get better speed/area by splitting a round in 2 pipelined stages
  96 2010-12-11 01:01:03 <ArtForz> right now the 5-deep adder chain for A limits my max clock pretty severely
  97 2010-12-11 01:03:10 <brocktice> xelister: thanks! got it
  98 2010-12-11 01:03:16 <brocktice> xelister: didn't realize it was you
  99 2010-12-11 01:03:31 <brocktice> Thanks for paying, but didn't you say 50?
 100 2010-12-11 01:04:08 <ArtForz> no, 50 erm 30
 101 2010-12-11 01:04:14 <brocktice> oh
 102 2010-12-11 01:04:29 <brocktice> ah yes I see the correction
 103 2010-12-11 01:04:31 <brocktice> ok,
 104 2010-12-11 01:04:33 <brocktice> well, thanks :)
 105 2010-12-11 01:05:54 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630])
 106 2010-12-11 01:08:49 <midnightmagic> oh hey.. lookit that, looks like testnet co-exists with the main bitcoin conf dirs..
 107 2010-12-11 01:08:59 ElectRo` has joined
 108 2010-12-11 01:09:35 <ArtForz> testnet uses main bitcoin.conf, puts data by default in datadir/testnet/
 109 2010-12-11 01:17:14 <tcatm> Damn floats :)
 110 2010-12-11 01:19:14 ElectRo` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 111 2010-12-11 01:24:43 <xelister> brocktice: :)
 112 2010-12-11 01:25:33 <midnightmagic>  holy smokes, look at that.. once a minute per thread..
 113 2010-12-11 01:29:53 <tcatm> necrodearia: ping?
 114 2010-12-11 01:31:56 ElectRo` has joined
 115 2010-12-11 01:32:27 <tcatm> market data as json: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/markets.json
 116 2010-12-11 01:35:01 <Kiba> so today is ada lovelace's birthday
 117 2010-12-11 01:35:01 osmosis has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 118 2010-12-11 01:36:56 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
 119 2010-12-11 01:37:11 andrew12_ has joined
 120 2010-12-11 01:37:59 duck1123 has joined
 121 2010-12-11 01:38:04 ElectRo`_ has joined
 122 2010-12-11 01:38:30 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 123 2010-12-11 01:38:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96931 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1852 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 37 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12373.74389941
 124 2010-12-11 01:40:37 <necrodearia> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/213230/could_the_wikileaks_scandal_lead_to_new_virtual_currency.html
 125 2010-12-11 01:40:54 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 126 2010-12-11 01:41:07 <ArtForz> oi
 127 2010-12-11 01:41:43 andrew12_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 128 2010-12-11 01:43:17 <necrodearia> tcatm, ping
 129 2010-12-11 01:43:54 <tcatm> necrodearia: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/markets.json
 130 2010-12-11 01:44:16 <necrodearia> tcatm, nice, and thanks!
 131 2010-12-11 01:44:42 <tcatm> If you use it on a website please add a link to bitcoincharts.
 132 2010-12-11 01:46:39 <necrodearia> tcatm, Another idea I had that I thought would be interesting was to overlay the market prices : date chart/graph with block count or total network khash/sec
 133 2010-12-11 01:47:43 Diablo-D3 has joined
 134 2010-12-11 01:49:02 <tcatm> necrodearia: Yep. Many people are asking for such charts. I'm still not sure if it would show any meaningful information and could easily be misinterpreted.
 135 2010-12-11 01:51:40 neolive has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 136 2010-12-11 01:51:45 andrew12_ has joined
 137 2010-12-11 01:52:00 <andrew12_> Now that I'm using a client less likely to die
 138 2010-12-11 01:52:12 <necrodearia> Well, one thing I was considering was the value of bitcoin and the amount of processing power in the network.
 139 2010-12-11 01:52:40 <necrodearia> I believe they aren't related and have no effect on one another, but it may be interesting to see them in comparison
 140 2010-12-11 01:53:04 <ArtForz> they sure are related, but probably in a non-useful way
 141 2010-12-11 01:53:12 <andrew12_> Lalalalalalalalala
 142 2010-12-11 01:53:13 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 143 2010-12-11 01:53:34 <tcatm> necrodearia: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2011.0 some graphs I made to see if there's any significant information
 144 2010-12-11 01:53:54 <necrodearia> mm, interesting
 145 2010-12-11 01:54:55 <ArtForz> I'd expect difficulty to more-or-less follow value of bitcoins
 146 2010-12-11 01:55:31 <Granttt> isn't difficulty == rl cost of mining (in relation to gold price)
 147 2010-12-11 01:55:44 <andrew12_> It'd be interesting to set up some sort of distributed network for doing distributed computing (i.e. running an enormous task like rendering a high quality image of a minecraft world :p)
 148 2010-12-11 01:55:46 <ArtForz> right now we're still in a massive increase in difficulty due to GPU mining drastically increasing hash/W
 149 2010-12-11 01:55:49 <tcatm> Both price and difficulty probably follow an underlying factor. Maybe it's the size of userbase?
 150 2010-12-11 01:56:03 <ArtForz> that too
 151 2010-12-11 01:56:48 <andrew12_> Does anyone in here have my bitcoin address? I'm not at home right now but I wanted to try something
 152 2010-12-11 01:57:18 <andrew12_> (Home being where my client is w/ that address)
 153 2010-12-11 01:58:16 <tcatm> Granttt: Nope. There are enough bitcoins in the markets.
 154 2010-12-11 01:58:24 <Granttt> the one difficulty that is off the charts is the impossibility for some people to transfer $$ >> mtgox
 155 2010-12-11 01:58:46 <tcatm> $$ >> mtgox works just fine
 156 2010-12-11 01:59:17 <andrew12_> So... are blocks always going to be generated? Like, is there ever going to be a block limit?
 157 2010-12-11 01:59:27 Grantttt has joined
 158 2010-12-11 01:59:30 <tcatm> andrew12_: There's no limit.
 159 2010-12-11 01:59:38 ElectRo`_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 160 2010-12-11 02:00:06 <tcatm> A constant generation of blocks is important for bitcoin to work reliable.
 161 2010-12-11 02:00:08 <Grantttt> tcatm: any suggestions, i have ~2500eur @ virwox/moneybookers or 800,000 L$ (in second life), i want that 2500usd >> mtgox
 162 2010-12-11 02:00:41 <andrew12_> So in like 10 years (if bitcoin lasts that long) there'll be like 20k blocks? Heh
 163 2010-12-11 02:01:43 <tcatm> moneybookers and L$ are even more exotic than LR :)
 164 2010-12-11 02:02:08 <Grantttt> moneybookers is crap, but L$ has no chargebacks which is pretty cool
 165 2010-12-11 02:02:24 <andrew12_> Nobody has my bitcoin address?
 166 2010-12-11 02:02:27 <xelister> andrew12_: yeah sure I have it
 167 2010-12-11 02:02:29 * Kiba post a new revision of his artwork
 168 2010-12-11 02:02:34 <xelister> andrew12_: let me just generet.. uh.. find it
 169 2010-12-11 02:02:40 <andrew12_> xelister: lol
 170 2010-12-11 02:03:18 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 171 2010-12-11 02:03:37 <andrew12_> I tried looking through the logs but I kinda got lazy and stuff
 172 2010-12-11 02:03:55 <andrew12_> If they were text logs instead of html i could write a quick script
 173 2010-12-11 02:04:37 <tcatm> Grantttt: Can't you sell them for USD and then convert to LRUSD?
 174 2010-12-11 02:05:09 <andrew12_> How is LRUSD different from USD?
 175 2010-12-11 02:07:24 andrew12_ has quit (Quit: parting is such sweet sorrow...)
 176 2010-12-11 02:07:57 <Grantttt> yea, its the LR middleman i find "annoying"
 177 2010-12-11 02:10:12 noagendamarket has joined
 178 2010-12-11 02:10:12 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
 179 2010-12-11 02:10:52 <Keefe> Grantttt: i might be interested in trading MTG$ for your L$. pm me
 180 2010-12-11 02:13:39 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 181 2010-12-11 02:15:06 andrew12_ has joined
 182 2010-12-11 02:15:15 <andrew12_> Hello again
 183 2010-12-11 02:15:50 <andrew12_> xelister: find it yet?
 184 2010-12-11 02:16:07 DoomDumas has joined
 185 2010-12-11 02:17:41 <xelister> andrew12_: no... I dont have it..
 186 2010-12-11 02:17:46 <andrew12_> Aww.
 187 2010-12-11 02:18:09 <andrew12_> Actually I think I might have it
 188 2010-12-11 02:18:55 <andrew12_> Indeed I do!
 189 2010-12-11 02:19:01 <andrew12_> Thank you for your patronage.
 190 2010-12-11 02:19:02 andrew12_ has quit (Client Quit)
 191 2010-12-11 02:22:54 <Zarutian> http://seekingalpha.com/article/213546-conspiracy-theory-11-red-money <- anyone heard of this?
 192 2010-12-11 02:23:48 ElectRo` has joined
 193 2010-12-11 02:24:52 <Kiba> of course not!
 194 2010-12-11 02:29:37 <Grantttt> that the government has less accurate estimate over its money than we ? yes
 195 2010-12-11 02:31:09 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 196 2010-12-11 02:31:23 ElectRo` has joined
 197 2010-12-11 02:31:40 <Kiba> we know exactly how many bitcoins are actually circulated
 198 2010-12-11 02:31:40 DoomDumas has quit ()
 199 2010-12-11 02:31:45 <Kiba> how many there will EVER be
 200 2010-12-11 02:31:49 <Kiba> ain't that awesome?
 201 2010-12-11 02:32:11 <Kiba> we know more shit more accurately than the government central planners
 202 2010-12-11 02:34:44 <doublec> You know how many have been generated - you don't know how may are 'lost' due to deleted wallets, etc
 203 2010-12-11 02:35:14 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 205000
 204 2010-12-11 02:35:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 205000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds
 205 2010-12-11 02:36:01 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 206 2010-12-11 02:36:19 <Keefe> lost btc is effectively like someone holding btc and offering to sell only for an infinitely high price
 207 2010-12-11 02:36:25 ElectRo` has joined
 208 2010-12-11 02:38:08 <Grantttt> lost btc is not a bad thing at all, since the issuer doesn't have to pay interest on all outstanding money :)
 209 2010-12-11 02:41:10 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 210 2010-12-11 02:44:16 <Zarutian> ;bc,calc 9000000000000
 211 2010-12-11 02:44:31 <Diablo-D3> huh
 212 2010-12-11 02:44:36 <Diablo-D3> the sha3 finalists are out
 213 2010-12-11 02:44:41 <Diablo-D3> http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/12/11/0028226/SHA-3-Finalist-Candidates-Known?from=rss
 214 2010-12-11 02:44:44 johndrinkwater has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 215 2010-12-11 02:44:59 <ArtForz> meh, thats not OVER 9000 Ghps
 216 2010-12-11 02:45:17 <ArtForz> meme fail
 217 2010-12-11 02:46:32 <Diablo-D3> yes, you need 9001.
 218 2010-12-11 02:47:03 johndrinkwater has joined
 219 2010-12-11 02:47:39 <Kiba> wee
 220 2010-12-11 02:47:44 <Kiba> is my art career fuzzing out?
 221 2010-12-11 02:51:05 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 222 2010-12-11 02:58:27 <tcatm> Shazam (app to identify music) is creepy. I had it listening to an outro that was only three chords and it detected the song.
 223 2010-12-11 02:59:24 <ArtForz> confirmation bias is biased
 224 2010-12-11 03:00:07 <necrodearia> "is there a way to even test which hardware is best for generating bitcoins?" - Chris Angelini -- Any responses to this appreciated and I will write a followup email to him.
 225 2010-12-11 03:00:24 <Kiba> see how many hashrate itp roduce?
 226 2010-12-11 03:00:55 <ArtForz> a way to test? yes. run a generator, see how fast it goes.
 227 2010-12-11 03:01:58 <ArtForz> if you have a bunch of similar hardware, you can extrapolate from known data points
 228 2010-12-11 03:02:52 <ArtForz> as it stands, nothing beats ATI 5xxx on hashes/W
 229 2010-12-11 03:03:16 <necrodearia> ArtForz, In your experiences, what would you consider the approximate minimum and maximum ranges possible for generating bitcoins using official client?
 230 2010-12-11 03:03:27 <ArtForz> on CPU?
 231 2010-12-11 03:03:27 <necrodearia> Maybe 20khash - 1.5mhash?
 232 2010-12-11 03:03:36 <necrodearia> yep, and perhaps also separately for gpu
 233 2010-12-11 03:03:55 <ArtForz> iirc 6-core phenomIIs can get up to 16Mh/s using 4way
 234 2010-12-11 03:04:01 <necrodearia> ooh
 235 2010-12-11 03:04:09 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 236 2010-12-11 03:04:31 <ArtForz> lowest possible hashrate... LOW
 237 2010-12-11 03:05:23 <ArtForz> afair theres a "post your CPU and hashrate" thread on forums
 238 2010-12-11 03:05:35 <tcatm> 300khash/s might be a reasonable lower end
 239 2010-12-11 03:05:53 <ArtForz> within a CPU arch hashrate should scale nicely with clock
 240 2010-12-11 03:06:18 <ArtForz> and usually also with #cores
 241 2010-12-11 03:06:45 <ArtForz> so a 3GHz 4-core AthlonII should be about 33% faster than a 3GHz 3-core AthlonII
 242 2010-12-11 03:07:10 <Diablo-D3> 33%? no
 243 2010-12-11 03:07:15 <Diablo-D3> wait
 244 2010-12-11 03:07:16 <Diablo-D3> yes
 245 2010-12-11 03:07:17 <ArtForz> yes
 246 2010-12-11 03:07:18 <Diablo-D3> no
 247 2010-12-11 03:07:21 <Diablo-D3> fucking math!
 248 2010-12-11 03:07:25 <Diablo-D3> yeah, its four thirds
 249 2010-12-11 03:07:26 <ArtForz> X4 = 133% of X3, X3 = 75% of X4
 250 2010-12-11 03:07:31 <Diablo-D3> so its 33% faster
 251 2010-12-11 03:07:38 <ArtForz> yep
 252 2010-12-11 03:08:50 <ArtForz> real-world datapoints for ATI 5xxx using diablos miner: HD5770 153Mh/s, HD5970 530Mh/s
 253 2010-12-11 03:09:16 <ArtForz> my private miner is about 2% faster
 254 2010-12-11 03:09:56 <Diablo-D3> whats yours do that mine doesnt?
 255 2010-12-11 03:10:12 <ArtForz> I loop over nonce in kernel
 256 2010-12-11 03:10:25 <xelister> I have angel-miner (fork of diablos) at 533MH/s actually. even when using a bit of desktop
 257 2010-12-11 03:10:31 <ArtForz> doing 1024 nonces/workitem
 258 2010-12-11 03:10:45 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hrm, I cant replicate that on 4xxx
 259 2010-12-11 03:11:00 <ArtForz> so?
 260 2010-12-11 03:11:07 <Diablo-D3> so I cant test if its working :<
 261 2010-12-11 03:11:23 <ArtForz> on 5xxx loop wastes a lot less cycles than 4xxx
 262 2010-12-11 03:11:47 <xelister> btw, Diablo-D3 in your's, each nonce has first rounds calculated in CPU, and the rest in CL?
 263 2010-12-11 03:12:00 <Diablo-D3> first three and last three
 264 2010-12-11 03:12:09 <xelister> hm, why not do that also in gpu?
 265 2010-12-11 03:12:15 <ArtForz> first three are precalced, last 3 are useless
 266 2010-12-11 03:12:15 <Diablo-D3> xelister: uh?
 267 2010-12-11 03:12:22 <Diablo-D3> yeah what art said
 268 2010-12-11 03:12:27 <xelister> precalced?
 269 2010-12-11 03:12:34 <xelister> they are same for each nonce?
 270 2010-12-11 03:12:38 <Diablo-D3> yes
 271 2010-12-11 03:12:39 <ArtForz> you do the first 3 rounds once per getwork
 272 2010-12-11 03:12:51 <ArtForz> = once every 5 seconds
 273 2010-12-11 03:12:51 <xelister> ok.. and why not loop over nonces in gpu?
 274 2010-12-11 03:13:15 <ArtForz> because it's slower on 4xxx, and diablo develops on a 4850 :P
 275 2010-12-11 03:13:16 <Diablo-D3> art does
 276 2010-12-11 03:13:24 * xelister lols @ Diablo-D3
 277 2010-12-11 03:13:29 <Diablo-D3> the only reason I havent added it is because I cant test it
 278 2010-12-11 03:13:31 <xelister> wonder why it's slower
 279 2010-12-11 03:13:33 <ArtForz> if you want him to optimize for 5xxx, donate him a 5770 or something
 280 2010-12-11 03:13:40 <xelister> yeah right here, I get 10
 281 2010-12-11 03:13:49 * xelister reaches into his back pocket
 282 2010-12-11 03:13:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you have a 5770 you dont want anymore, right?
 283 2010-12-11 03:14:03 <ArtForz> already sold to my gaming buddies
 284 2010-12-11 03:14:24 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I have a 5970 I dont want anymore lol
 285 2010-12-11 03:14:39 <xelister> ArtForz: what is market price for used 5770, 5970 ?
 286 2010-12-11 03:15:09 <ArtForz> I got 90EUR for my 512MB 5770
 287 2010-12-11 03:15:30 <ArtForz> 5970s are... weird
 288 2010-12-11 03:15:39 <xelister> weird?
 289 2010-12-11 03:15:41 * Diablo-D3 is rather unhappy
 290 2010-12-11 03:15:49 <Diablo-D3> I mean, why do I bother developing this thing
 291 2010-12-11 03:15:51 <ArtForz> new they dropped to 380EUR incl. tax, back up to 420
 292 2010-12-11 03:15:53 <Diablo-D3> everyone just uses m0's
 293 2010-12-11 03:16:44 <xelister> Diablo-D3: my card would cost ~20 EUR to ship to usa
 294 2010-12-11 03:16:57 * xelister pats Diablo-D3
 295 2010-12-11 03:17:00 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I use yours
 296 2010-12-11 03:17:12 <xelister> after ungaying it from the lack of logs and tabs ;)
 297 2010-12-11 03:19:33 <ArtForz> spaces vs. tabs? vi vs. emacs!
 298 2010-12-11 03:20:30 <doublec> PCWorld has an article about bitcoin. Word's getting out.
 299 2010-12-11 03:20:43 <Kiba> yyyeah we know
 300 2010-12-11 03:20:54 <donpdonp> doublec: urlL
 301 2010-12-11 03:20:54 <ArtForz> yep, yay!
 302 2010-12-11 03:21:01 <donpdonp> i mean url? :)
 303 2010-12-11 03:21:04 <Kiba> some good news for ArtForz
 304 2010-12-11 03:21:08 <Kiba> assuming that price will rise
 305 2010-12-11 03:21:13 <doublec> donpdonp, http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/213230/could_the_wikileaks_scandal_lead_to_new_virtual_currency.html
 306 2010-12-11 03:21:19 <donpdonp> doublec: thx!
 307 2010-12-11 03:21:25 <ArtForz> good news for anyone holding a decent chunk of btc ;)
 308 2010-12-11 03:22:18 <Kiba> bad news for those who want to buy bitcoin
 309 2010-12-11 03:22:38 <ArtForz> depends
 310 2010-12-11 03:22:49 <tcatm> Why? You now know that you shouldn't wait much longer.
 311 2010-12-11 03:22:56 <ArtForz> exactly
 312 2010-12-11 03:22:58 mndrix1 has joined
 313 2010-12-11 03:23:09 <ArtForz> if you think this causes a major increase in demand now should be a good time to buy
 314 2010-12-11 03:24:21 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 10000
 315 2010-12-11 03:24:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 28 seconds
 316 2010-12-11 03:25:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yeah, but whats the point?
 317 2010-12-11 03:25:11 <Diablo-D3> I got it as going as fast as I can on my hardware
 318 2010-12-11 03:25:21 mndrix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 319 2010-12-11 03:25:25 <Diablo-D3> I cant afford a new video card
 320 2010-12-11 03:25:37 <ArtForz> someone should create a bc calc assuming difficulty increases x1.4 every 10 days
 321 2010-12-11 03:25:43 <ArtForz> then buy a used one
 322 2010-12-11 03:25:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont.
 323 2010-12-11 03:25:54 <Diablo-D3> too many cards on ebay are just broken
 324 2010-12-11 03:26:05 <ArtForz> thanks to 68xx there should be plenty of used 57xx and 58xx floating around currently
 325 2010-12-11 03:26:14 <Diablo-D3> they've been oc'ed until they were damaged
 326 2010-12-11 03:26:17 <Diablo-D3> or they're just ready to die
 327 2010-12-11 03:26:25 <donpdonp> ArtForz: good idea. it should query amazon for the going price of a 5970 and give a nice little profit estimate
 328 2010-12-11 03:26:40 <donpdonp> (or loss :)
 329 2010-12-11 03:26:44 <Diablo-D3> amazon? wtf?
 330 2010-12-11 03:26:49 <Diablo-D3> newegg you fucking retard
 331 2010-12-11 03:27:04 <ArtForz> well, the 4870 I got off ebay was pretty much broken, still good enough for mining
 332 2010-12-11 03:27:07 <donpdonp> Diablo-D3: whatever. amazon was an example
 333 2010-12-11 03:27:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I cant repair shit like you can
 334 2010-12-11 03:27:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: that, and I buy new shit about every 5 years
 335 2010-12-11 03:27:33 <Diablo-D3> it has to last that long
 336 2010-12-11 03:28:07 <ArtForz> the GPU on my main "work" box is a 7600GS ...
 337 2010-12-11 03:28:58 <ArtForz> it replaced a FX5600
 338 2010-12-11 03:29:22 <Diablo-D3> you're lucky to have more than one box
 339 2010-12-11 03:29:26 <ArtForz> yes, my main work box is still a AGP board
 340 2010-12-11 03:29:37 <ArtForz> S939
 341 2010-12-11 03:29:54 <ArtForz> 4G of ECC ram
 342 2010-12-11 03:30:13 <tcatm> 4:3 CRT?
 343 2010-12-11 03:30:17 <ArtForz> 2
 344 2010-12-11 03:30:28 <ArtForz> 2 * 22" sony trinitron
 345 2010-12-11 03:30:46 <Diablo-D3> heh, my 17" trin finally died
 346 2010-12-11 03:30:59 <ArtForz> usually running 1600x1200 @ 100Hz
 347 2010-12-11 03:31:10 <Diablo-D3> I replaced it with the monitor Im going to have for the next decade
 348 2010-12-11 03:31:11 Granttt has joined
 349 2010-12-11 03:31:14 <ArtForz> they can also do 2048x1536 @ 75Hz
 350 2010-12-11 03:31:30 <ArtForz> = dual 1920x1200 would be a *downgrade*
 351 2010-12-11 03:31:54 <doublec> pool users have high expectations
 352 2010-12-11 03:31:58 <tcatm> Almost any TFT is a downgrade.
 353 2010-12-11 03:32:02 <doublec> "Why haven't we generated any blocks!!!"
 354 2010-12-11 03:32:18 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: I agree
 355 2010-12-11 03:32:21 <Diablo-D3> thats why I have an IPS
 356 2010-12-11 03:32:25 <ArtForz> oh, CPU is a A64 X2 6000+
 357 2010-12-11 03:32:28 <Diablo-D3> I needed to get something that would reduce eyestrain
 358 2010-12-11 03:32:31 <ArtForz> PVA > IPS
 359 2010-12-11 03:32:39 <Diablo-D3> ips > pva/mva
 360 2010-12-11 03:32:56 <Diablo-D3> pva/mva still has the fucking hue shift problem, and insanely high refresh times
 361 2010-12-11 03:33:05 <tcatm> Phones have 260 dpi screens. Why can't I have that in my TFT @ 24"?
 362 2010-12-11 03:33:06 <doublec> the channel should have a btc donation jar for everytime Diablo-D3 says shit, fuck, and retard. We'd be rich.
 363 2010-12-11 03:33:15 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: you can
 364 2010-12-11 03:33:17 <doublec> :-)
 365 2010-12-11 03:33:21 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: you can buy 1200p 17" screens
 366 2010-12-11 03:33:30 <donpdonp> have the historical difficulty levels been recorded somewhere?
 367 2010-12-11 03:33:32 <tcatm> URL?
 368 2010-12-11 03:33:40 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: they're for laptops
 369 2010-12-11 03:33:52 <Diablo-D3> they also have like 300dpi e-ink shit
 370 2010-12-11 03:33:58 <Diablo-D3> which is probably what you'd really want
 371 2010-12-11 03:33:59 <ArtForz> afair acer pulled that stunt
 372 2010-12-11 03:34:33 <ArtForz> put a 17" laptop TFT in a desktop enclosure
 373 2010-12-11 03:34:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: why would you ever say PVA is better?
 374 2010-12-11 03:34:36 <tcatm> IBM had their T220/221. 204 dpi. That would make a nice screen.
 375 2010-12-11 03:34:40 <Diablo-D3> you cant game on a PVA
 376 2010-12-11 03:34:45 <Diablo-D3> or even watch movies on quite a few
 377 2010-12-11 03:34:48 <Diablo-D3> especially that Dell shit
 378 2010-12-11 03:34:53 <ArtForz> err.. what?
 379 2010-12-11 03:34:58 Grantttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 380 2010-12-11 03:35:22 <Diablo-D3> IPS is the only way you're not going to get gamma (tft does this) or hue (pva/mva does this) shift on off angle
 381 2010-12-11 03:35:29 <Diablo-D3> IPS will just go darker
 382 2010-12-11 03:35:34 <ArtForz> wtf is tft?
 383 2010-12-11 03:36:01 <Diablo-D3> thin film transistor
 384 2010-12-11 03:36:03 <ArtForz> all panels are TFT
 385 2010-12-11 03:36:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: when someone says tft, they mean tn
 386 2010-12-11 03:36:19 <ArtForz> TN, PVA, MVA, IPS, all TFT
 387 2010-12-11 03:36:30 <Diablo-D3> instead of referring to a specific type
 388 2010-12-11 03:36:47 <ArtForz> non-TFT = passive LCD, usually found in 16+ year old laptops
 389 2010-12-11 03:36:59 <Diablo-D3> see above
 390 2010-12-11 03:37:03 <ArtForz> oh, TN
 391 2010-12-11 03:37:06 <ArtForz> TN is just junk
 392 2010-12-11 03:37:06 <Diablo-D3> at some point tft became the name for specifically tn
 393 2010-12-11 03:37:16 <Diablo-D3> tn is most tfts
 394 2010-12-11 03:37:19 <ArtForz> with TN *everything* shifts with viewing angle
 395 2010-12-11 03:37:19 <Diablo-D3> like, the vast majority
 396 2010-12-11 03:37:26 <Diablo-D3> tn has really bad gamma shifts
 397 2010-12-11 03:37:35 <ArtForz> also has hue shifts
 398 2010-12-11 03:37:36 <Diablo-D3> Ive seen really shitty tn panels that gamma shift so bad the colors invert
 399 2010-12-11 03:37:43 <Diablo-D3> as in, negative gamma
 400 2010-12-11 03:37:49 <ArtForz> yea
 401 2010-12-11 03:38:00 <Diablo-D3> mva/pva just hue shift
 402 2010-12-11 03:38:08 <Diablo-D3> ips only darkens, but keeps gamma and hue correct
 403 2010-12-11 03:38:13 <tcatm> Most TNs are also only 5 or 6 bits per color.
 404 2010-12-11 03:38:22 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: no
 405 2010-12-11 03:38:23 <ArtForz> good PVAs dont hue shift
 406 2010-12-11 03:38:34 <ArtForz> yes
 407 2010-12-11 03:38:36 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: they dont really have that issue anymore
 408 2010-12-11 03:38:39 <ArtForz> most cheap TNs are 6 bit native
 409 2010-12-11 03:38:47 <Diablo-D3> unless its a REALLY shit TN
 410 2010-12-11 03:39:13 <ArtForz> cheap PVAs *do* have hue shift
 411 2010-12-11 03:39:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: every PVA I've seen is unacceptable in some way
 412 2010-12-11 03:39:25 <ArtForz> and cheap IPSes have BAD brightness shift
 413 2010-12-11 03:39:29 <Diablo-D3> some dont have bad hue shift
 414 2010-12-11 03:39:40 <Diablo-D3> but they dont react well to overdrive
 415 2010-12-11 03:40:13 <ArtForz> yea, pva also has some ghosting
 416 2010-12-11 03:40:36 <Diablo-D3> the real problem is a lot have a full change of about 24ms
 417 2010-12-11 03:40:54 <ArtForz> ouch
 418 2010-12-11 03:41:01 <Diablo-D3> but quote a grey to grey time of below 12
 419 2010-12-11 03:41:04 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
 420 2010-12-11 03:41:13 <ArtForz> recent high-end PVAs are about half that b-w-b
 421 2010-12-11 03:41:20 <ArtForz> and ~5ms g-g
 422 2010-12-11 03:41:32 <Diablo-D3> depends on the electronics paired with them
 423 2010-12-11 03:41:45 <Diablo-D3> like, this is why I bought my NEC
 424 2010-12-11 03:41:57 <ArtForz> NEC = great
 425 2010-12-11 03:41:58 <Diablo-D3> zero added latency in the processing hardware
 426 2010-12-11 03:42:09 <Diablo-D3> and the IPS panel has a full change of I think 12
 427 2010-12-11 03:42:14 <Diablo-D3> its either 16 or 12
 428 2010-12-11 03:42:33 <Diablo-D3> it has zero ghosting, and its like gaming on a fully analog CRT
 429 2010-12-11 03:42:55 <Diablo-D3> its also expensive.
 430 2010-12-11 03:43:17 <Diablo-D3> but it'll also last awhile
 431 2010-12-11 03:43:36 <ArtForz> yeah, I'm buying a new screen like once every 10 years
 432 2010-12-11 03:43:49 <Diablo-D3> I didnt want an LCD at all though
 433 2010-12-11 03:43:56 <Diablo-D3> but I needed something that caused no eye strain
 434 2010-12-11 03:43:59 <Diablo-D3> since Im infront of it a lot
 435 2010-12-11 03:44:08 <Diablo-D3> I dont want to be blind when Im 40
 436 2010-12-11 03:44:19 <ArtForz> well, my trinitrons are still good, I just dont like re-fixing the G2 bug every 3 months or so
 437 2010-12-11 03:44:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I hate being poor
 438 2010-12-11 03:44:24 <Diablo-D3> you know why?
 439 2010-12-11 03:44:36 <Diablo-D3> being rich means you can buy cheap shit and replace it every year
 440 2010-12-11 03:44:46 <Diablo-D3> that must be nice
 441 2010-12-11 03:44:50 <tcatm> That makes you poor very fast.
 442 2010-12-11 03:44:54 <Diablo-D3> a new 65" tv every year, a new car every year
 443 2010-12-11 03:45:02 <ArtForz> staying rich means buying stuff 2x the price and replacing it every decade+
 444 2010-12-11 03:45:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: then why am I not rich?
 445 2010-12-11 03:45:15 <Diablo-D3> I barely have anything at all
 446 2010-12-11 03:45:21 <Diablo-D3> I simply cant afford equipment failure
 447 2010-12-11 03:45:44 <Diablo-D3> I have a $200 series mode surge protector and a $500 double converting UPS
 448 2010-12-11 03:45:45 <Diablo-D3> you know why?
 449 2010-12-11 03:45:54 <Diablo-D3> because its an insurance policy.
 450 2010-12-11 03:46:03 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: you don't make much moeny?
 451 2010-12-11 03:46:08 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: very little.
 452 2010-12-11 03:46:14 <Kiba> why?
 453 2010-12-11 03:46:18 <ArtForz> no clue, I make decent money and spend... not much
 454 2010-12-11 03:47:04 <Kiba> there are guys with twice my experience in life..hmm
 455 2010-12-11 03:48:09 <ArtForz> only thing I like blowing money on is computers and car stereos
 456 2010-12-11 03:48:41 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: I dont particularly get along with people
 457 2010-12-11 03:48:53 <Diablo-D3> working with other people is pretty much torture
 458 2010-12-11 03:49:32 <Kiba> ArtForz: so you can blow your ears out?
 459 2010-12-11 03:49:33 <Kiba> hmm
 460 2010-12-11 03:49:36 <ArtForz> oh, I like working with people, I just hate working with incompetent people, which means... I dont like working with people either
 461 2010-12-11 03:49:46 <ArtForz> Kiba: pretty much
 462 2010-12-11 03:50:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: incompetent people are worse
 463 2010-12-11 03:50:16 <Diablo-D3> but like, why the hell do people ... talk
 464 2010-12-11 03:50:17 <Diablo-D3> at all
 465 2010-12-11 03:50:26 <Diablo-D3> Im busy working, leave me the fuck alone
 466 2010-12-11 03:50:49 <Diablo-D3> I spent an hour trying to load an entire problem into my head
 467 2010-12-11 03:50:51 <Diablo-D3> and then BAM
 468 2010-12-11 03:50:55 <Diablo-D3> someone opens their mouth
 469 2010-12-11 03:50:59 <Diablo-D3> there it all goes down the drain
 470 2010-12-11 03:51:18 <tcatm> You should implement push/pop :)
 471 2010-12-11 03:51:36 * Kiba doesn't load an entire problem into his head
 472 2010-12-11 03:51:42 * Kiba have short attention span
 473 2010-12-11 03:52:07 <ArtForz> my car is a '86 vanagon diesel, 2*18" subs, custom door panels w/ 6" kickers and 4"/1" compo, 2*1kW RMS for subs, digital EQ + delay correction, 2nd alternator + 2 deep cycle batteries, ...
 474 2010-12-11 03:52:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont own a car.
 475 2010-12-11 03:52:39 <ArtForz> = stereo is worth well > 3x as much as the car
 476 2010-12-11 03:52:41 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: most people cant work that way
 477 2010-12-11 03:53:06 <Kiba> who?
 478 2010-12-11 03:53:20 <ArtForz> top speed 65mph, downhill ;)
 479 2010-12-11 03:53:39 <tcatm> I never understood why people put so those stereos in their cars :)
 480 2010-12-11 03:54:16 <ArtForz> err... because I like my music loud
 481 2010-12-11 03:54:38 <Diablo-D3> I dont understand why anyone would want to listen to music while driving
 482 2010-12-11 03:54:41 <Diablo-D3> its a distraction
 483 2010-12-11 03:54:54 <ArtForz> so what?
 484 2010-12-11 03:55:45 <ArtForz> while driving I listen to music, smoke, drink coffee, eat a big mac and fiddle with my GPS
 485 2010-12-11 03:55:53 <ArtForz> number of accidents in 20 years: 0
 486 2010-12-11 03:55:57 <Diablo-D3> and this is why I dont own a car
 487 2010-12-11 03:56:06 <Diablo-D3> its a legal liability anyhow
 488 2010-12-11 03:56:23 <Diablo-D3> someone runs into you, and YOUR insurance goes up
 489 2010-12-11 03:56:33 <ArtForz> not around here
 490 2010-12-11 03:56:43 <Diablo-D3> and the government is implicit in the crime of letting rich people have another way to steal your money
 491 2010-12-11 03:57:06 <ArtForz> honestly, in rural .de you NEED a car
 492 2010-12-11 03:57:28 <Diablo-D3> I live in rural maine.
 493 2010-12-11 03:57:30 <Diablo-D3> its worse.
 494 2010-12-11 03:57:55 <ArtForz> public transport is decent in/around cities, but 20 miles out from the next 50k+ pop city you're SOL
 495 2010-12-11 03:58:55 <Diablo-D3> we have no public transport here
 496 2010-12-11 03:59:16 <Diablo-D3> I live in a down with less than 50k people, where "in" is probably 20 miles away
 497 2010-12-11 03:59:36 <ArtForz> we have a bus, twice a day. bus stop is a 1h walk
 498 2010-12-11 04:01:13 <ArtForz> we used to have a train station, but that got closed >10 years ago after rail got "privatized"
 499 2010-12-11 04:01:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah, more fucking rich people stealing money
 500 2010-12-11 04:03:18 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hey
 501 2010-12-11 04:03:21 <Diablo-D3> Im looking at my miner
 502 2010-12-11 04:03:23 <Diablo-D3> its reaading 75.3
 503 2010-12-11 04:03:25 <ArtForz> if you take a state monopoly and turn it into a private monopoly *it's still a fucking monopoly fuckwads*
 504 2010-12-11 04:03:27 <Diablo-D3> wtf.
 505 2010-12-11 04:03:51 <Diablo-D3> at, at least when its a government monopoly I can bitch and be heard
 506 2010-12-11 04:03:59 <Diablo-D3> voting with your dollar doesnt work
 507 2010-12-11 04:04:09 <Diablo-D3> they just pay off the government to steal your money
 508 2010-12-11 04:04:12 <Diablo-D3> like the banks did
 509 2010-12-11 04:04:49 <ArtForz> pretty much
 510 2010-12-11 04:05:01 <Diablo-D3> I hate rich people so goddamned much
 511 2010-12-11 04:05:14 <Diablo-D3> OH BOO HOO, WE HAVE TO PAY TAXES, SOMEONE SAVE US
 512 2010-12-11 04:05:20 <Diablo-D3> well fuck you in the fucking ass you fucking fags
 513 2010-12-11 04:05:21 <Kiba> democracy
 514 2010-12-11 04:05:28 <ArtForz> I have nothing against rich people, I hate parasites
 515 2010-12-11 04:05:29 <Diablo-D3> go sip your $20 coffees and shut the fuck up
 516 2010-12-11 04:05:29 <Kiba> is organized polunder
 517 2010-12-11 04:05:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: rich people ARE parasites
 518 2010-12-11 04:05:39 <Diablo-D3> very few ever deserved their money
 519 2010-12-11 04:05:41 <Diablo-D3> _very_ few
 520 2010-12-11 04:05:41 <kermit> this is off topic, please see ##economics or ##politics
 521 2010-12-11 04:05:50 <Diablo-D3> kermit: fuck ##economics
 522 2010-12-11 04:05:53 <necrodearia> I introduced bitcoin to donationcoder.com via their irc channel on efnet, and they are encouraging me to write a post on their forum.  However, I am too lazy and more importantly I don't want to write a sloppy intro post about bitcoin, one that I'll regret, I am embarrassed by or even one that is considered poor representation of the bitcoin community/project.  Is anyone up for taking up such responsibility and writing a post on th
 523 2010-12-11 04:05:53 <necrodearia> eir forum on my behalf?  ^_^
 524 2010-12-11 04:06:18 <Kiba> necrodearia: pay me some bitcoin
 525 2010-12-11 04:06:25 <necrodearia> >_<
 526 2010-12-11 04:06:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: like, you know what happens if anyone ends up curing cancer?
 527 2010-12-11 04:06:53 <Diablo-D3> the scientist who did it will end up dead in a gutter somewhere after his wife left him and took his house and kids
 528 2010-12-11 04:06:57 <ArtForz> some big pharma co. buys the patent and sits on it for the next 30 years?
 529 2010-12-11 04:07:01 <Diablo-D3> but his boss will get a million dollar bonus
 530 2010-12-11 04:07:12 <Diablo-D3> and people will still die of cancer because poor people cant afford the cure
 531 2010-12-11 04:07:29 <Kiba> let patent this life-saving medicine, BIATCH
 532 2010-12-11 04:07:49 <[Noodles]> that's why we're minin, not folding
 533 2010-12-11 04:07:59 <Diablo-D3> good work mining did
 534 2010-12-11 04:08:12 <Diablo-D3> I generated about $75 worth of coins
 535 2010-12-11 04:08:13 <Kiba> Diablo-D3 hates all rich people
 536 2010-12-11 04:08:13 <Diablo-D3> and that was it
 537 2010-12-11 04:08:19 <Kiba> and Diablo-D3 is poor
 538 2010-12-11 04:08:33 <Kiba> maybe he see most people as being useless
 539 2010-12-11 04:08:42 <Diablo-D3> most people ARE useless, Kiba
 540 2010-12-11 04:08:46 <ArtForz> most people are useless
 541 2010-12-11 04:08:51 <necrodearia> donationcoder offers to pay me in cody coins if I post.  Again, I offer someone to post on my behalf ^_^
 542 2010-12-11 04:08:57 <Diablo-D3> how many people just sit back and bitch they're unemployed?
 543 2010-12-11 04:09:00 <Kiba> but who will work the resturant!!!1111
 544 2010-12-11 04:09:01 <Diablo-D3> why dont do they do anything about it?
 545 2010-12-11 04:09:10 <Kiba> I do something about it, abiet poorly
 546 2010-12-11 04:09:55 <necrodearia> I wish I were useless, but I still have potential to write a first post about bitcoin on dc forum.  Someone wanna make me useless and post for me?
 547 2010-12-11 04:09:58 <Kiba> DO SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING
 548 2010-12-11 04:10:02 <necrodearia> I'm trying
 549 2010-12-11 04:10:02 <Diablo-D3> you know what
 550 2010-12-11 04:10:04 <Diablo-D3> I hate mining
 551 2010-12-11 04:10:08 <Diablo-D3> it now says 75.4
 552 2010-12-11 04:10:10 <Kiba> necrodearia: pay me bitcoin
 553 2010-12-11 04:10:16 <necrodearia> How about cody coin?
 554 2010-12-11 04:10:31 <Kiba> at some point, I want bitcoins
 555 2010-12-11 04:10:37 <ArtForz> hey, at least you dont get fibrosis from mining bitcoins :P
 556 2010-12-11 04:10:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no, but watch the IRS come in and steal my computer for evidence
 557 2010-12-11 04:11:03 <Diablo-D3> or the FBI
 558 2010-12-11 04:11:11 <Diablo-D3> because some rich person was butthurt over it
 559 2010-12-11 04:11:18 <necrodearia> It would be even more drastic if ArtForz hardwares were confiscated
 560 2010-12-11 04:11:23 <Kiba> Peter Thiel will save us!
 561 2010-12-11 04:11:43 <Diablo-D3> meh, fuck art's hardware
 562 2010-12-11 04:11:46 <Diablo-D3> he can afford to replace it
 563 2010-12-11 04:11:50 <necrodearia> ^_^
 564 2010-12-11 04:11:53 <ArtForz> confiscated for what? I'm running this above-board
 565 2010-12-11 04:12:14 <Kiba> hmm
 566 2010-12-11 04:12:20 <Kiba> what can they possibly punish ArtForz for?
 567 2010-12-11 04:12:29 <necrodearia> ArtForz, reasons aren't necessary for confiscating.   Reasons can be created.
 568 2010-12-11 04:12:30 <doublec> Jealousy?
 569 2010-12-11 04:12:36 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: they dont need a reason
 570 2010-12-11 04:12:39 <Diablo-D3> not even a legal one
 571 2010-12-11 04:12:54 <Diablo-D3> in the US, its now guilty even if proven innocent
 572 2010-12-11 04:12:55 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: that why I spent some time ya know convincing CCC and EFF
 573 2010-12-11 04:12:59 <Kiba> because these things might happen
 574 2010-12-11 04:13:25 <necrodearia> Consider Julian Assange as a notable example.  He's not even in the US
 575 2010-12-11 04:13:26 <Kiba> too bad CCC don't listen to letters written in English
 576 2010-12-11 04:13:47 <Diablo-D3> unless the EFF wants to lead an armed revolution to put the Constitution back up on the wall
 577 2010-12-11 04:13:50 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck can they do
 578 2010-12-11 04:14:01 <Diablo-D3> when you're rich, you can buy judges
 579 2010-12-11 04:14:06 <Diablo-D3> or even congressmen
 580 2010-12-11 04:14:28 <ArtForz> hey, we have the best politicians money can buy!
 581 2010-12-11 04:14:31 <necrodearia> And since pcworld wrote article referencing wikileaks and bitcoin...
 582 2010-12-11 04:14:46 <necrodearia> it's only a matter of time before bitcoin becomes another evil portrayed in current media
 583 2010-12-11 04:14:58 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I might as well delete my miner off github
 584 2010-12-11 04:15:01 <Diablo-D3> and quit coming here
 585 2010-12-11 04:15:01 <ArtForz> so what
 586 2010-12-11 04:15:08 <ArtForz> freenet is also evil according to mass media
 587 2010-12-11 04:15:11 <Diablo-D3> fuck the world
 588 2010-12-11 04:16:04 <Kiba> ArtForz: you mean the old world called TV?
 589 2010-12-11 04:16:28 <ArtForz> the old world I call media conglomerates
 590 2010-12-11 04:16:30 * Diablo-D3 sighs
 591 2010-12-11 04:16:41 <necrodearia> So, even though you may be considered a large target in regards to your establishments, you may want to consider protecting yourself in some fashion.
 592 2010-12-11 04:16:52 <necrodearia> just in case
 593 2010-12-11 04:17:42 <necrodearia> for example establish a bitcoin node separate from your primary miners
 594 2010-12-11 04:17:44 <Diablo-D3> whats the point of trying to make the world better when you're just called a terrorist for doing it
 595 2010-12-11 04:17:46 <tcatm> The only reason "they" would hunt miners is if they wanted to do something stupid to stop bitcoin.
 596 2010-12-11 04:18:03 <necrodearia> and preserve majority of your assets securely
 597 2010-12-11 04:18:10 <ArtForz> well, when I shut down my generator in spring and mining on utility power is still profitable I fully expect a visit from a "fire inspector" and a bunch of cops with drug dogs
 598 2010-12-11 04:18:22 <necrodearia> ^_^
 599 2010-12-11 04:18:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I would sue
 600 2010-12-11 04:18:44 <Diablo-D3> also, I think I'd tell the cops to go home
 601 2010-12-11 04:18:47 <ArtForz> well, law here says you have to let a fire inspector in
 602 2010-12-11 04:18:49 <Diablo-D3> the apartment I live in doesnt allow dogs
 603 2010-12-11 04:18:54 <Diablo-D3> even if they're visitors
 604 2010-12-11 04:19:08 <ArtForz> of course with 14 day written prior notice
 605 2010-12-11 04:19:16 <Diablo-D3> also, get a fucking warrant
 606 2010-12-11 04:19:31 <necrodearia> ArtForz, A suggestion.  You should take pictures or video of your entire setup and as it continues to grow take more pictures, video, to share with the world (as you permit)
 607 2010-12-11 04:19:37 <Kiba> make sure you're out of the house when the police come to raid
 608 2010-12-11 04:19:49 <Kiba> don't want to be shot on accident
 609 2010-12-11 04:20:01 <Diablo-D3> he'll just be arrested for avoiding arrest
 610 2010-12-11 04:20:02 <Kiba> they will be WTFing themsleves
 611 2010-12-11 04:20:19 <Diablo-D3> and then shot
 612 2010-12-11 04:20:24 <ArtForz> our cops are slightly less trigger happy
 613 2010-12-11 04:20:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: not when they're paid to shoot in sight
 614 2010-12-11 04:20:54 <ArtForz> not really afraid of that
 615 2010-12-11 04:21:32 <ArtForz> but it's really somewhat fucked up
 616 2010-12-11 04:22:27 <ArtForz> basically when they suspect someone of growing pot said fire inspector + cops show up unnanounced, telling you a fire inspector has the right to check your buildings for fire safety
 617 2010-12-11 04:22:50 <Diablo-D3> yes, and I'd tell him to return with a warrant
 618 2010-12-11 04:22:51 <ArtForz> conveniently leaving out the "WITH 2 WEEKS WRITTEN PRIOR NOTICE" part of the law
 619 2010-12-11 04:23:18 <ArtForz> and the cops can go fuck themselves without a warrant
 620 2010-12-11 04:24:12 <tcatm> Btw, is there any trigger for such a suspections?
 621 2010-12-11 04:24:14 <tcatm> -s
 622 2010-12-11 04:24:22 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: yes, hes using power.
 623 2010-12-11 04:24:25 <ArtForz> sudden continued high power use
 624 2010-12-11 04:24:32 <Diablo-D3> which automatically means you're DOIN DRUGS MAN
 625 2010-12-11 04:24:35 <Diablo-D3> YOU'RE HIGH MAN
 626 2010-12-11 04:24:54 <ArtForz> yeah, because everyone uses grow lamps *headdesk*
 627 2010-12-11 04:25:06 <tcatm> What's considered high power? :)
 628 2010-12-11 04:25:17 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: more than everyone else on the block uses
 629 2010-12-11 04:25:27 <ArtForz> "whatever the utility companys sofware flags"
 630 2010-12-11 04:25:34 <Diablo-D3> yeah basically
 631 2010-12-11 04:25:39 <Diablo-D3> and you cant trust the power company
 632 2010-12-11 04:25:44 <Diablo-D3> more rich fags
 633 2010-12-11 04:25:55 <Diablo-D3> DUEFA HURF LETS BURN COAL AND DESTROY THE WORLD FOR PROFIT
 634 2010-12-11 04:26:14 <ArtForz> but yeah, afair it's something like continous >2-3x of an "average household of that size"
 635 2010-12-11 04:26:16 <Diablo-D3> when did it become illegal to defend yourself against people trying to kill you?
 636 2010-12-11 04:26:47 <ArtForz> dude, gun laws in .de are just fucking insane
 637 2010-12-11 04:27:07 <ArtForz> you need a fucking license for a BB
 638 2010-12-11 04:27:30 <Diablo-D3> thats not what I mean
 639 2010-12-11 04:27:39 <Diablo-D3> I should be able to kill anyone that owns a coal mine
 640 2010-12-11 04:28:20 <ArtForz> another variant of tragedy of the commons
 641 2010-12-11 04:28:25 <Diablo-D3> but OH NOES, TERRORISTSTSTSTSTST
 642 2010-12-11 04:28:37 Lysacor has joined
 643 2010-12-11 04:29:00 <Diablo-D3> and my government sure as hell isnt fixing the problem
 644 2010-12-11 04:29:51 <spacemagic> might be making it worse
 645 2010-12-11 04:30:08 <ArtForz> btw, I expect plenty of "bitcoin used by commie pedo terrorist pirates" propaganda if bitcoin takes off
 646 2010-12-11 04:30:15 <Diablo-D3> how many fucking times have the republicans bombed efforts to do green power
 647 2010-12-11 04:30:26 <Lysacor> It doesn't meet their business interests
 648 2010-12-11 04:30:31 <Diablo-D3> of course it doesnt
 649 2010-12-11 04:30:34 <Lysacor> yep
 650 2010-12-11 04:30:43 <Diablo-D3> fucking saudi royal family
 651 2010-12-11 04:30:44 <spacemagic> replace the word republicans with "big oil companies" and i'll agree
 652 2010-12-11 04:30:54 <Diablo-D3> if I was president, I'd execute every one of them
 653 2010-12-11 04:30:57 <Diablo-D3> myself personally if I had to
 654 2010-12-11 04:31:01 <Lysacor> pretty interchangable
 655 2010-12-11 04:31:12 <Diablo-D3> I dont support terrorism
 656 2010-12-11 04:31:17 <Diablo-D3> and Im sure as hell not soft on crime
 657 2010-12-11 04:31:26 <spacemagic> lol @ commie pedo terroris pirates
 658 2010-12-11 04:31:28 <Lysacor> Sadly, given the right condition, they would do the same to anyone that doesn't agree with them.
 659 2010-12-11 04:31:36 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: they have
 660 2010-12-11 04:31:51 <ArtForz> did I forget one?
 661 2010-12-11 04:32:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: socalists
 662 2010-12-11 04:32:03 <Diablo-D3> and nazis
 663 2010-12-11 04:32:13 <Diablo-D3> so basically, Obama should be running bitcoin by now
 664 2010-12-11 04:32:40 <ArtForz> I fucking hate green tree-huggers
 665 2010-12-11 04:32:47 <Diablo-D3> so do I
 666 2010-12-11 04:32:49 <Diablo-D3> but look up
 667 2010-12-11 04:32:52 <Diablo-D3> look whats in the sky
 668 2010-12-11 04:32:58 <Diablo-D3> the most efficient form of fusion power ever
 669 2010-12-11 04:33:02 <ArtForz> yep
 670 2010-12-11 04:33:12 <Diablo-D3> all we need is to setup solar and wind to use it
 671 2010-12-11 04:33:23 <ArtForz> yeah
 672 2010-12-11 04:33:25 <Diablo-D3> efficient solar could power the needs of our entire civilzation FOREVER
 673 2010-12-11 04:34:09 <ArtForz> yep
 674 2010-12-11 04:34:18 <ArtForz> I'm more thinking of the "everyone should live in a cave and eat tofu" nuts
 675 2010-12-11 04:34:27 <Diablo-D3> but
 676 2010-12-11 04:34:30 <Diablo-D3> OH LETS BURN COAL
 677 2010-12-11 04:34:31 <Lysacor> True, but our civilization has not reached anywhere near a forseeable apex of power requirements either. The sun can only generate a finite amount of power per square meter
 678 2010-12-11 04:34:32 <Diablo-D3> AND OIL
 679 2010-12-11 04:34:35 <Diablo-D3> AND SLANDER TESLA
 680 2010-12-11 04:34:41 <ArtForz> thats just fucking stupid
 681 2010-12-11 04:34:41 <Diablo-D3> tesla motors makes my dick hard
 682 2010-12-11 04:34:56 <ArtForz> I'd rather have nukes than coal/gas/oil
 683 2010-12-11 04:35:08 <Diablo-D3> oh, and nukes?
 684 2010-12-11 04:35:10 <Diablo-D3> guess what!
 685 2010-12-11 04:35:12 <Lysacor> I don't condone dirty power generation, but we don't know where things are going, and nuclear is a very viable option
 686 2010-12-11 04:35:16 <Diablo-D3> we have efficient safe nuclear reacotrs!
 687 2010-12-11 04:35:22 <Diablo-D3> BUT GODDAMNED IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM
 688 2010-12-11 04:35:26 <ArtForz> yep
 689 2010-12-11 04:35:31 <Diablo-D3> "OH NOES, MY TESTICLES MIGHT DO SOMETHING!"
 690 2010-12-11 04:35:39 <Diablo-D3> we could deploy pebble reactors everywhere
 691 2010-12-11 04:35:40 <Lysacor> And there are also designs by individuals to use thorium for fuel, instead of uranium
 692 2010-12-11 04:35:49 <Diablo-D3> and it'd work great
 693 2010-12-11 04:35:52 <Diablo-D3> you cant blow them up
 694 2010-12-11 04:35:58 <Diablo-D3> you cant even really use them as dirty bombs
 695 2010-12-11 04:36:07 <Diablo-D3> and they can be transported on 18 wheelers in cases of emergancy
 696 2010-12-11 04:36:14 <Diablo-D3> even computer failure would do absolutely nothing
 697 2010-12-11 04:36:16 <Lysacor> Yep
 698 2010-12-11 04:36:23 <Diablo-D3> the maximum temp they can reach _is their normal operating temp_
 699 2010-12-11 04:36:33 <Diablo-D3> anything less and you're not generating power
 700 2010-12-11 04:36:39 <Diablo-D3> BUT NO
 701 2010-12-11 04:36:41 <Diablo-D3> WE CANT HAVE THAT CAN WE
 702 2010-12-11 04:36:48 <Diablo-D3> WE MIGHT LOSE VOTES FROM THE FUCKING TOFU FAGS
 703 2010-12-11 04:36:49 <ArtForz> isn't it "the more you cool them the higher the reaction rate" ?
 704 2010-12-11 04:36:53 <Diablo-D3> AN IMPORTANT VOTING BLOCK IN CALIFORNIA
 705 2010-12-11 04:37:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no... you generate using the waste heat
 706 2010-12-11 04:37:20 <ArtForz> = stop coolant flow, the reactor just sits there at 800°C or so
 707 2010-12-11 04:37:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
 708 2010-12-11 04:37:34 <Diablo-D3> but in normal reactors, you have fuel rods
 709 2010-12-11 04:37:48 <Diablo-D3> you retract them when it gets too hot
 710 2010-12-11 04:37:52 <ArtForz> yep
 711 2010-12-11 04:37:54 <Diablo-D3> if they dont retract, the place goes up
 712 2010-12-11 04:38:07 <Diablo-D3> normal operating temp is much lower than meltdown temps
 713 2010-12-11 04:38:14 * Lysacor watches for mushroom clouds...
 714 2010-12-11 04:38:20 <ArtForz> I think I have a good grasp of how conventional reactors work
 715 2010-12-11 04:38:21 <Diablo-D3> pebble reactors reach maximum temp and... thats it
 716 2010-12-11 04:38:24 <ArtForz> yep
 717 2010-12-11 04:38:26 <Diablo-D3> maximum temp IS operating temp
 718 2010-12-11 04:38:30 <Diablo-D3> they CANT melt down
 719 2010-12-11 04:38:34 <Diablo-D3> no fuel rods, no moving parts
 720 2010-12-11 04:38:34 <ArtForz> yep
 721 2010-12-11 04:38:40 <Diablo-D3> just a tank that heats up
 722 2010-12-11 04:38:50 <Diablo-D3> turn off coolant, turn off the computer
 723 2010-12-11 04:38:52 <Diablo-D3> and nothing happens
 724 2010-12-11 04:38:56 <ArtForz> yep
 725 2010-12-11 04:38:58 <Diablo-D3> you're just wasting money letting it sit
 726 2010-12-11 04:39:02 <Diablo-D3> its 100% fucking safe
 727 2010-12-11 04:39:03 <Diablo-D3> yet
 728 2010-12-11 04:39:07 <Diablo-D3> we're not mass producing them
 729 2010-12-11 04:39:18 <Diablo-D3> we could have power so fucking cheap you couldnt meter it
 730 2010-12-11 04:39:27 <Lysacor> yep, they can't profit from it
 731 2010-12-11 04:39:30 <Diablo-D3> we would be the number one power in the world for another 50 years
 732 2010-12-11 04:39:33 <Lysacor> it is all a profit motive
 733 2010-12-11 04:39:40 <ArtForz> and honestly nuclear waste looks positively benign compared to coal/oil/gas plants nicely distributing crap all over the planet
 734 2010-12-11 04:39:53 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: I think putting us back to a state of control ike we had at the end of ww2 is worth it
 735 2010-12-11 04:40:02 <Diablo-D3> I dont trust my government... I trust foreign governments even less
 736 2010-12-11 04:40:19 <Diablo-D3> the last thing I want is china et al. rising to power
 737 2010-12-11 04:40:40 <ArtForz> well, as it currently looks, china WILL rise to power
 738 2010-12-11 04:40:46 <Diablo-D3> yes
 739 2010-12-11 04:40:54 <Diablo-D3> because the rich people have our hands tied behind our backs
 740 2010-12-11 04:41:00 <Lysacor> Diablo: As long as that control does not give rise to a new McCarthyist witch hunt. Fine. Anything to keep the military-industrial complex at bay.
 741 2010-12-11 04:41:00 <Diablo-D3> instead of letting us fight the invaders
 742 2010-12-11 04:41:19 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: the socio-military-industrial complex is a failure
 743 2010-12-11 04:41:31 <Diablo-D3> it let a competitor appear in the world that wasnt part of the scam
 744 2010-12-11 04:41:33 <Lysacor> Diablo: Agreed
 745 2010-12-11 04:41:36 <Diablo-D3> russia played "the game" with us
 746 2010-12-11 04:41:38 <Diablo-D3> china doesnt.
 747 2010-12-11 04:41:51 <xelister> what atre you guys bambing about
 748 2010-12-11 04:41:55 <ArtForz> nothing
 749 2010-12-11 04:41:57 * xelister wscrolls
 750 2010-12-11 04:42:06 <ArtForz> oh, this isn't #bitcoin-offtopic?
 751 2010-12-11 04:42:09 <ArtForz> ;)
 752 2010-12-11 04:42:17 <Diablo-D3> destroying the saudis
 753 2010-12-11 04:42:35 <tcatm> Background noise to keep the community together ;)
 754 2010-12-11 04:42:39 <xelister> [05:04] <Diablo-D3> OH BOO HOO, WE HAVE TO PAY TAXES, SOMEONE SAVE US
 755 2010-12-11 04:42:40 <xelister> [05:04] <Diablo-D3> well fuck you in the fucking ass you fucking fags
 756 2010-12-11 04:42:42 <Diablo-D3> and running everything off electricity so cheap that it would cause a boost to the economy that would only be compared to the industrial revolution itself
 757 2010-12-11 04:42:42 <Lysacor> Technically it is the one of the larger bitcoin processors... and a developer... talking... and I am just chiming in :P
 758 2010-12-11 04:42:42 <xelister> hehe another classic diablo
 759 2010-12-11 04:42:50 <Diablo-D3> we'd own the world
 760 2010-12-11 04:42:51 <Diablo-D3> again
 761 2010-12-11 04:42:55 <Kiba> hmm
 762 2010-12-11 04:43:15 <Diablo-D3> we'd be the saudis of electrical power
 763 2010-12-11 04:43:24 <Kiba> I have sucky nose
 764 2010-12-11 04:43:26 <Diablo-D3> and it would destroy an entire industry
 765 2010-12-11 04:43:33 <Kiba> of what?
 766 2010-12-11 04:43:33 <Diablo-D3> one that has only caused problems
 767 2010-12-11 04:43:39 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: the oil industry
 768 2010-12-11 04:43:44 <Kiba> oh.
 769 2010-12-11 04:43:53 <Diablo-D3> it would collapse a 150 year reign of terror
 770 2010-12-11 04:44:00 <Diablo-D3> a shadow empire that exists to destroy the world
 771 2010-12-11 04:44:01 <xelister> necrodearia: offer actuall?
 772 2010-12-11 04:44:44 <Kiba> even I think Diablo-D3 a bit nut
 773 2010-12-11 04:45:15 <xelister> <ArtForz> freenet is also evil according to mass media
 774 2010-12-11 04:45:22 <xelister> yeah, some idiots think its for childporn
 775 2010-12-11 04:45:24 <xelister> sorry jgarzik
 776 2010-12-11 04:45:34 <ArtForz> dont forget terrorists
 777 2010-12-11 04:45:34 <xelister> well anything can be used for anything
 778 2010-12-11 04:45:37 <ArtForz> and pirates
 779 2010-12-11 04:45:44 <ArtForz> they somehow missed the commies
 780 2010-12-11 04:45:57 <xelister> people have problem with fn used for cp,  but not with like, knifes used for murder.. taxes used to sponosr mudering people in wars, and so on
 781 2010-12-11 04:46:28 <Kiba> xelister: it's called compartmenization
 782 2010-12-11 04:46:37 noagendamarket has joined
 783 2010-12-11 04:46:37 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: Im not nuts, Im just tired of this shit
 784 2010-12-11 04:46:57 <xelister> in todayw word normal people are nuts
 785 2010-12-11 04:47:07 <ArtForz> "the current situation sucks, let's rant on the internet" ;)
 786 2010-12-11 04:47:11 <Diablo-D3> anyone who supports the freedoms of the people are nuts
 787 2010-12-11 04:47:15 <Kiba> xelister: how do you know that you're not nut?
 788 2010-12-11 04:47:15 <xelister> americans raping/killing people in iraq --> no moral outcry.
 789 2010-12-11 04:47:17 <Lysacor> the better question is, what is normal?
 790 2010-12-11 04:47:22 <Diablo-D3> our founding fathers were the terrorists of their days
 791 2010-12-11 04:47:38 <xelister> someone wanks to a CARTOON DRAWING of a minor -> OH NOES sound the alarm! wweeee weeee weeee weeeee help help
 792 2010-12-11 04:47:45 <Diablo-D3> because they stood up for what they thought was right
 793 2010-12-11 04:47:47 <Lysacor> That would be your Christian hypocrisy, but it exists in all religions, and lack of religion
 794 2010-12-11 04:47:49 <Diablo-D3> and were even willing to die for it
 795 2010-12-11 04:47:58 <Lysacor> anyone who is not like you, is less than you
 796 2010-12-11 04:48:00 <xelister> yeah christians are fucking hipocrits, usually
 797 2010-12-11 04:48:06 <ArtForz> xelister: more crazy in .de, written word is enough
 798 2010-12-11 04:48:08 <Diablo-D3> christians are anti-God.
 799 2010-12-11 04:48:18 <xelister> although, if someone would trully follow guidelines for christiantiy, he would be moral imho (e.g. jesus)
 800 2010-12-11 04:48:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well shit, hope no one has a copy of Lolita then
 801 2010-12-11 04:48:35 <Diablo-D3> xelister: Jesus was a terrorist
 802 2010-12-11 04:48:38 <xelister> huh?
 803 2010-12-11 04:48:41 <Diablo-D3> he fought the Man, and the man executed him for it
 804 2010-12-11 04:48:45 <xelister> he did only good deads
 805 2010-12-11 04:48:51 <xelister> ah ok you're being ironic
 806 2010-12-11 04:48:52 <Diablo-D3> he told the truth, xelister
 807 2010-12-11 04:48:57 <Diablo-D3> and they killed him for it
 808 2010-12-11 04:49:03 <xelister> indeed, nowdays USA would declar jesus
 809 2010-12-11 04:49:06 <xelister> a terroist
 810 2010-12-11 04:49:08 <xelister> and pedophile lol
 811 2010-12-11 04:49:11 <Diablo-D3> they declared him that back then
 812 2010-12-11 04:49:28 <Diablo-D3> the central church of the jewish religion saw him as a threat to their power
 813 2010-12-11 04:49:29 <xelister> oh noe why is Jesus talking to children? omg omg!
 814 2010-12-11 04:49:32 <Diablo-D3> and they killed him for it
 815 2010-12-11 04:49:32 <jrabbit> Yeah what have the romans ever done for us
 816 2010-12-11 04:49:43 <Diablo-D3> yeah, thats the worst thing
 817 2010-12-11 04:49:46 <Diablo-D3> they had the romans do it for them
 818 2010-12-11 04:49:55 <jrabbit> ...
 819 2010-12-11 04:49:58 <xelister> perhaps someone should do such campaign lol
 820 2010-12-11 04:50:00 <jrabbit> you bloody moron
 821 2010-12-11 04:50:04 <Diablo-D3> at least if you're going to kill someone, do it with your own hands
 822 2010-12-11 04:50:19 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: the jews handed him over to the romans
 823 2010-12-11 04:50:21 <Lysacor> If a Christian followed the Bible verbatim. Women would be subjugated, the word of an imaginary deity is pushed by an ever corrupt ecclesiarchy. All leading to subjugation of the masses. Religion is not designed to enlighten... it is designed to capture the thoughts of an individual and sway them to another's whim.
 824 2010-12-11 04:50:22 <xelister> like, showing how nowdays Jesus would be seen as terrorist/pedo, arrested by Romans for ``rape'', and then charged for conspiracy
 825 2010-12-11 04:50:24 <Diablo-D3> it was romans hands that executed him
 826 2010-12-11 04:50:28 <Diablo-D3> but the _jews_ did it
 827 2010-12-11 04:50:33 <jrabbit> its a motherfucking monty python quote
 828 2010-12-11 04:50:39 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: feh
 829 2010-12-11 04:50:44 <jrabbit> who let you on the internet
 830 2010-12-11 04:50:46 <Diablo-D3> fuck monty python
 831 2010-12-11 04:51:02 * xelister ~~~ typical day of discussing bitcoins ~~~
 832 2010-12-11 04:51:06 <xelister> <_<
 833 2010-12-11 04:51:24 <Lysacor> :P
 834 2010-12-11 04:51:32 <ArtForz> ^.^
 835 2010-12-11 04:51:33 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: if christians followed the bible verbatim, they'd realize the bible is written in such a way that you must reject what you feel is wrong
 836 2010-12-11 04:52:24 <Diablo-D3> If you accept what is in the bible as the literal truth, then you failed
 837 2010-12-11 04:52:28 <Diablo-D3> you didnt read it at all
 838 2010-12-11 04:53:01 <Lysacor> Diablo: Pretty much, but if you don't accept the bible as the literal truth, you failed anyways in modern Christianity's eyes
 839 2010-12-11 04:53:10 <Diablo-D3> modern Christians do not believe in God
 840 2010-12-11 04:53:19 <ArtForz> define Christianity?
 841 2010-12-11 04:53:20 <Diablo-D3> they worship Walmart and McDonalds and other modern idols
 842 2010-12-11 04:53:31 <noagendamarket> jesus was a troll
 843 2010-12-11 04:53:32 <Diablo-D3> they worship the almighty dollar
 844 2010-12-11 04:53:53 <jrabbit> noagendamarket: which one was that?
 845 2010-12-11 04:53:55 <Diablo-D3> to emulate Jesus is to fight The Man.
 846 2010-12-11 04:54:07 <jrabbit> Zoraster?
 847 2010-12-11 04:54:09 <Diablo-D3> thats what it is to follow the path that God has set infront of you.
 848 2010-12-11 04:54:18 <Diablo-D3> You right the wrongs.
 849 2010-12-11 04:54:19 <Lysacor> That is a good question, "Christian" is more of a weak self-title than it is any level of religious thought.
 850 2010-12-11 04:54:31 <noagendamarket> cthulu is awake
 851 2010-12-11 04:54:51 <Diablo-D3> Like, anyone who continues to call themselves a Catholic should not be trusted
 852 2010-12-11 04:54:59 <Lysacor> Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah-nagl ftaghn
 853 2010-12-11 04:55:02 <jrabbit> "oh wah the ruling ideolgoy is underrepresented"
 854 2010-12-11 04:55:07 <Diablo-D3> I mean, I bitch about rich people... but look at the vatican
 855 2010-12-11 04:55:13 <Diablo-D3> do you KNOW how much they have?
 856 2010-12-11 04:55:15 <ArtForz> dude, the Catholic church is a fucking joke
 857 2010-12-11 04:55:20 <Diablo-D3> they have entire underground libraries of one of a kind books
 858 2010-12-11 04:55:28 <Diablo-D3> they dont "hide" them, anyone can go see them
 859 2010-12-11 04:55:32 <Diablo-D3> but you have to know they have it first
 860 2010-12-11 04:55:40 <Diablo-D3> and they dont make that list public
 861 2010-12-11 04:55:46 <jrabbit> huh
 862 2010-12-11 04:55:48 <ArtForz> biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet
 863 2010-12-11 04:56:00 <jrabbit> who doesn't know that the vatican is the number one repository of latin texts?
 864 2010-12-11 04:56:04 <Diablo-D3> you're taken to a secure room and you cannot leave the room until you are done with the book
 865 2010-12-11 04:56:11 <Diablo-D3> and someone is in there with you with the book at all time
 866 2010-12-11 04:56:20 <Diablo-D3> they also have hundreds of religious artifacts
 867 2010-12-11 04:56:26 <Diablo-D3> they just hoard it
 868 2010-12-11 04:56:35 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: they think its just some church library
 869 2010-12-11 04:56:38 <jrabbit> Lol.
 870 2010-12-11 04:56:43 <Diablo-D3> but its a top of the line secure facility
 871 2010-12-11 04:56:47 <Lysacor> An increasingly corrupt ecclesiarchy, who make decisions in the abscence of God. The Vatican has a rather backwards way of looking at the world imho.
 872 2010-12-11 04:56:52 <jrabbit> This is the dumbest critique of one of the most evil organizations
 873 2010-12-11 04:56:59 <jrabbit> you make them seem benign almost
 874 2010-12-11 04:57:00 <jrabbit> lol.
 875 2010-12-11 04:57:08 <Diablo-D3> the vatican could sink to the bottom of the ocean after an earth quake
 876 2010-12-11 04:57:17 <Diablo-D3> and no one in the facility would ever know
 877 2010-12-11 04:57:50 <Diablo-D3> they'd just wonder why the air intakes automatically closed, and the front door is sealed
 878 2010-12-11 04:58:02 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: that isnt it
 879 2010-12-11 04:58:07 <Diablo-D3> what ELSE do they have?
 880 2010-12-11 04:58:19 <Diablo-D3> like, we already know they helped kill the jews during ww2
 881 2010-12-11 04:58:26 <Diablo-D3> and helped move their gold into the banking system
 882 2010-12-11 04:58:32 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: you're failing to see the hegelian couterpart
 883 2010-12-11 04:58:40 <jrabbit> its hardly what they do
 884 2010-12-11 04:58:44 <jrabbit> its what they don't
 885 2010-12-11 04:58:51 nameless has quit (!~root@weowntheinter.net|Remote host closed the connection)
 886 2010-12-11 04:59:04 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: Im getting to that
 887 2010-12-11 04:59:10 <Diablo-D3> they have more money than any government in the world
 888 2010-12-11 04:59:12 <Diablo-D3> they say they dont
 889 2010-12-11 04:59:21 <Diablo-D3> they try to hide it in aways that arent immediately obvious
 890 2010-12-11 04:59:29 <jrabbit> thats absurd.
 891 2010-12-11 04:59:30 <ArtForz> they say they dont?
 892 2010-12-11 04:59:37 <ArtForz> no, they dont say.
 893 2010-12-11 04:59:42 <ArtForz> big difference
 894 2010-12-11 04:59:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they try to claim they only have, maybe, hundreds of millions
 895 2010-12-11 04:59:49 <Diablo-D3> maybe billions
 896 2010-12-11 04:59:50 <ArtForz> because the latter is technically not lying :P
 897 2010-12-11 04:59:53 <jrabbit> that you think they're some kind of conspiracy beyond their inherant existance
 898 2010-12-11 04:59:57 <Diablo-D3> its probably in the tens or hundreds of trillions
 899 2010-12-11 05:00:03 <jrabbit> must be some condition of belief in nonexistance
 900 2010-12-11 05:00:06 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: its not a "conspiracy" in that sense
 901 2010-12-11 05:00:20 <Diablo-D3> its the effects of 2000 years of theft.
 902 2010-12-11 05:00:26 <theymos> I read some article about how the Vatican was supposedly going to bail out the UK with their immense gold stockpiles for some reason.
 903 2010-12-11 05:00:29 <Diablo-D3> an organization that has gone to war
 904 2010-12-11 05:00:35 <Diablo-D3> an organization that destroyed the holy lands repeatedly
 905 2010-12-11 05:00:38 <jrabbit> property is theft
 906 2010-12-11 05:00:40 <Diablo-D3> all in the name of the prophet
 907 2010-12-11 05:00:42 <jrabbit> whoopde freakin do
 908 2010-12-11 05:00:46 <Diablo-D3> sorry, I mean PROFIT
 909 2010-12-11 05:00:54 <ArtForz> lol
 910 2010-12-11 05:01:07 <Diablo-D3> its absurd
 911 2010-12-11 05:01:08 <jrabbit> good job you jsut realized your god is no match to the totality of capital
 912 2010-12-11 05:01:26 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: not at all
 913 2010-12-11 05:01:40 <Diablo-D3> God cannot directly interfere with the day to day lives of Man
 914 2010-12-11 05:01:59 <noagendamarket> Pedobear is the catholic mascot
 915 2010-12-11 05:02:03 <jrabbit> when you figure out the rest of 19th century philosophy let me know
 916 2010-12-11 05:02:13 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: its not about philosophy
 917 2010-12-11 05:02:16 <Diablo-D3> its about doing the right thing
 918 2010-12-11 05:02:24 <Diablo-D3> if I had a few hundred trillion in the bank
 919 2010-12-11 05:02:28 <Diablo-D3> I'd _buy_ the cure for cancer
 920 2010-12-11 05:02:29 <Diablo-D3> straight out
 921 2010-12-11 05:02:48 <ArtForz> and thats why you wont ever have
 922 2010-12-11 05:02:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: of course
 923 2010-12-11 05:02:59 <Diablo-D3> the people who would do the right thing
 924 2010-12-11 05:03:01 <Diablo-D3> never can
 925 2010-12-11 05:03:24 <Diablo-D3> the world is corrupt by default as far as I can tell
 926 2010-12-11 05:03:43 <Diablo-D3> its not about "absolute power corrupts absolutely"
 927 2010-12-11 05:03:47 * Kiba have basically come to the conclusion
 928 2010-12-11 05:03:49 <Diablo-D3> letting yourself be corrupt is a choice.
 929 2010-12-11 05:03:59 <ArtForz> it seems to be somewhat of a law
 930 2010-12-11 05:04:07 <Kiba> that men are amoral
 931 2010-12-11 05:04:17 <Diablo-D3> if you cannot be corrupted, the power wont come to you
 932 2010-12-11 05:04:25 <Diablo-D3> thats about the only thing I can figure out
 933 2010-12-11 05:04:38 <MT`AwAy> so true
 934 2010-12-11 05:04:45 <ArtForz> you dont get rich and powerful by being nice
 935 2010-12-11 05:04:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: who said being nice
 936 2010-12-11 05:04:58 <Diablo-D3> Im a total fucking asshole
 937 2010-12-11 05:05:07 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 938 2010-12-11 05:05:17 <Diablo-D3> but I dont want to be rich just to be rich like all these other assholes
 939 2010-12-11 05:05:32 <Diablo-D3> I want to live in a world that I could be truly happy with
 940 2010-12-11 05:05:51 <Kiba> I am OUT
 941 2010-12-11 05:06:09 <Diablo-D3> Mere diseases have no place in that world.
 942 2010-12-11 05:06:18 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: back to 19th C political phil
 943 2010-12-11 05:06:20 <jrabbit> lol
 944 2010-12-11 05:06:22 <Diablo-D3> Starvation has no place in that world.
 945 2010-12-11 05:06:46 <ArtForz> and a pony
 946 2010-12-11 05:06:59 <Diablo-D3> Obama saying "no, we cant afford to go to mars because the banks stole all our money" has no place in that world.
 947 2010-12-11 05:07:29 <Diablo-D3> Humanity is driven to seek the truth; the moment we stop is when we all die.
 948 2010-12-11 05:07:43 <jrabbit> lol extra terriestial exploration without collectivization
 949 2010-12-11 05:07:45 <Diablo-D3> And we're getting to close to that point than I'm comfortable with.
 950 2010-12-11 05:07:51 <jrabbit> like that'll ever happen
 951 2010-12-11 05:08:24 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: Im not sure why you brought up collectivization
 952 2010-12-11 05:08:50 <Diablo-D3> there are no more farmers anymore
 953 2010-12-11 05:08:57 <Diablo-D3> just employees of a company
 954 2010-12-11 05:09:36 <ArtForz> not around here, but keep going
 955 2010-12-11 05:09:51 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, in the US, most natural food consumed is grown by a company
 956 2010-12-11 05:09:59 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: because spacefaring is kind of a symptom of higher civilization
 957 2010-12-11 05:10:19 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: but forcing people to farm under a soviet system is not higher civilization
 958 2010-12-11 05:10:48 <ArtForz> I know, yet we still mostly have independent farmers around here
 959 2010-12-11 05:10:49 <Diablo-D3> stalin told his people "farm or be executed"... and the farms were really prison camps
 960 2010-12-11 05:10:56 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you're lucky
 961 2010-12-11 05:11:04 <jrabbit> omg stalin a monster? NO WAI
 962 2010-12-11 05:11:07 <jrabbit> please.
 963 2010-12-11 05:11:11 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: so why bring it up?
 964 2010-12-11 05:11:24 <Diablo-D3> are you saying we need to treat people like cogs in a machine to explore other planets?
 965 2010-12-11 05:11:27 <jrabbit> I don't think you know what that word means lol
 966 2010-12-11 05:11:35 <ArtForz> that and they organized to fight the food cos
 967 2010-12-11 05:11:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wow, and they wernt executed on their own lands for it?
 968 2010-12-11 05:11:52 <ArtForz> nope
 969 2010-12-11 05:12:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: here, they colluded with the banks to push the farms under
 970 2010-12-11 05:12:05 <jrabbit> no the people need to autonomously orginize into one being if they want to not kill themselves
 971 2010-12-11 05:12:08 <Diablo-D3> and then bought the land
 972 2010-12-11 05:12:22 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: thats not quite what collectiviation means
 973 2010-12-11 05:12:28 <Diablo-D3> it has a specific historical meaning
 974 2010-12-11 05:12:37 <ArtForz> what happened around here is that farmers started to form free collectives
 975 2010-12-11 05:12:42 <appamatto> Hey guys, I have some bitx design that I'd like an opinion about
 976 2010-12-11 05:12:44 <jrabbit> why would I use it in the lbieral capitalsit meaning
 977 2010-12-11 05:13:05 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: why would you use it anything other than the soviet meaning?
 978 2010-12-11 05:13:18 <appamatto> In bitcoin, timestamps are supposed to be related to real time, but the users at large could cooperate to speed or slow bitcoin time with respect to realtime
 979 2010-12-11 05:13:20 <Diablo-D3> I mean, you might as well start quoting shit out of Atlas Farted or whatever the name of that book was
 980 2010-12-11 05:13:22 <jrabbit> dude it means any collective system
 981 2010-12-11 05:13:50 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: its slavery
 982 2010-12-11 05:13:55 <appamatto> I think this is actually a feature.  Imagine that blocks were scarce and couldn't support the world level of transactions
 983 2010-12-11 05:14:13 <ArtForz> sharing equipment, selling each others products at local farm shops, electing representatives for industry deals
 984 2010-12-11 05:14:14 <appamatto> The users at large could then cooperate to speed the pace of block production without altering the protocol
 985 2010-12-11 05:14:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wow, Im surprised they wernt harassed by your equiv of the IRS
 986 2010-12-11 05:14:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: "WELL YOU GOTTA CHARGE EACH OTHER FOR RENTING FEES, EVEN IF YOU DIDNT, AND NONE OF THAT B2B SHIT"
 987 2010-12-11 05:14:52 <ArtForz> oh, they were
 988 2010-12-11 05:15:00 <ArtForz> they also lost a lot of EU subsidys
 989 2010-12-11 05:15:12 <Diablo-D3> surprised the subsidies wernt taken away
 990 2010-12-11 05:15:27 <Diablo-D3> if you dont play by the rules that have been enforced by rich people here, you dont get them
 991 2010-12-11 05:15:33 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: lol.
 992 2010-12-11 05:15:39 <ArtForz> yep, exactly that heppend
 993 2010-12-11 05:16:03 <ArtForz> yet they still manage to operate at a small profit
 994 2010-12-11 05:16:12 <appamatto> For bitx, my idea is for there to be a system-derived time unit, "blocktime" and the system doesn't decided the relation of blocktime to regular time, but does attempt to create one block per unit blocktime
 995 2010-12-11 05:16:25 <jrabbit> Beause oen degenerated workers state under military rule used marxist thought to justify its terror doesn't mean they had any sense in it
 996 2010-12-11 05:16:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: thats amazing
 997 2010-12-11 05:16:31 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: ^
 998 2010-12-11 05:16:37 <jrabbit> you need to edumucate
 999 2010-12-11 05:16:40 <ArtForz> yep, it's inspiring
1000 2010-12-11 05:16:50 <theymos> appamatto: Bitcoin block time isn't allowed to get too far from real time.
1001 2010-12-11 05:16:53 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: you're the one bringing up slavery, not me
1002 2010-12-11 05:16:54 <jrabbit> http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/63/227.html
1003 2010-12-11 05:16:57 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: I dont support it at all
1004 2010-12-11 05:17:03 <ArtForz> especially as they'd work less hours and earn more getting some low-level industry job
1005 2010-12-11 05:17:12 <appamatto> theymos, but it could, if all the clients decided to "vote" via artificially setting timestamps, correct?
1006 2010-12-11 05:17:26 <theymos> appamatto: No. You'd reject the blocks.
1007 2010-12-11 05:17:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: farming here is fully industrialized
1008 2010-12-11 05:17:38 <appamatto> theymos, no, because there are small allowances
1009 2010-12-11 05:17:41 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: infact, farming here is a major drive for science funding
1010 2010-12-11 05:17:45 <necrodearia> http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=24858.msg226703
1011 2010-12-11 05:17:54 <ArtForz> we have plenty of industrial farms in the ex-GDR states
1012 2010-12-11 05:17:54 <appamatto> theymos, can't you even set the timestamp before the previous one without being rejected?
1013 2010-12-11 05:18:09 <necrodearia> I tried delegating posting about it to others, but nobody would accept.  Kiba almost did, but requested bitcoins to do so.  I couldn't afford it, and therefore, there is my attempt
1014 2010-12-11 05:18:12 <Diablo-D3> you have these fuck huge machines roving down the fields
1015 2010-12-11 05:18:22 <Diablo-D3> the new "negros" so to speak
1016 2010-12-11 05:18:33 <Diablo-D3> we cant have black people do it, so lets have NO people do it
1017 2010-12-11 05:18:45 <Diablo-D3> quit the improvement to the bottom line
1018 2010-12-11 05:18:46 <ArtForz> = food industry swooped in and bought all the huge GDR farming "collectives" when germany was "re-united"
1019 2010-12-11 05:18:53 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: you don't seem to know what "communism" is from a state capitalist police ruled state
1020 2010-12-11 05:19:11 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: communism, in it's perfect form, is the fucking smurfs.
1021 2010-12-11 05:19:17 <appamatto> theymos, therefore I can fudge the timestamp to be slower or faster, and if enough people do that then the system will actually force others to adopt the same view as well
1022 2010-12-11 05:19:26 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/63/227.html
1023 2010-12-11 05:19:27 <appamatto> I think this is actually a feature of bitcoin
1024 2010-12-11 05:19:30 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: soviet russia never practiced communism, and communism falls apart after about 12 people
1025 2010-12-11 05:19:45 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: instead, what soviet russia was, was slavery
1026 2010-12-11 05:19:54 <jrabbit> Lookie here
1027 2010-12-11 05:19:59 <Diablo-D3> you were property of the state, and you were replaceable.
1028 2010-12-11 05:20:03 <jrabbit> mister didn't click the link and guesses what it says
1029 2010-12-11 05:20:09 <Diablo-D3> I dont care what it says.
1030 2010-12-11 05:20:12 <jrabbit> only to reaffirm Emma Goldman
1031 2010-12-11 05:20:17 <jrabbit> good job moron
1032 2010-12-11 05:20:23 <Diablo-D3> well Im glad Emma Goldman agrees with me.
1033 2010-12-11 05:20:29 nameless has joined
1034 2010-12-11 05:20:35 <Diablo-D3> Ive only been saying this for years.
1035 2010-12-11 05:20:39 <appamatto> theymos, is that correct?
1036 2010-12-11 05:20:44 jrabbit has left ()
1037 2010-12-11 05:20:52 <Diablo-D3> Yay, one less troll.
1038 2010-12-11 05:21:08 <appamatto> I'm pretty sure communism requires force
1039 2010-12-11 05:21:11 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|pokes nathan7 and nanotube 
1040 2010-12-11 05:21:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dunno though, industrialization of farms should have led to cheaper, safer, more homognous food
1041 2010-12-11 05:21:38 <ArtForz> or more profit for less people
1042 2010-12-11 05:21:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: instead, its more expensive, more dangerous, and even starving foreign nations we GIVE the food to sometimes reject it
1043 2010-12-11 05:21:56 <Diablo-D3> then again, I guess they're sick of rice and corn
1044 2010-12-11 05:22:40 <appamatto> I think one problem of bitcoin is that it tries to do too many things
1045 2010-12-11 05:22:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the problem is
1046 2010-12-11 05:22:49 <Diablo-D3> the government doesnt seek to implement more efficient methods
1047 2010-12-11 05:23:01 <Diablo-D3> I could replace Congress with a fucking AI.
1048 2010-12-11 05:23:03 <appamatto> it has the concept of a timestamp that is supposed to relate to realtime, but there is no real need for it to relate to realtime
1049 2010-12-11 05:23:07 <Diablo-D3> infact
1050 2010-12-11 05:23:12 <Diablo-D3> I could replace it with a fucking coin
1051 2010-12-11 05:23:21 <ArtForz> you could replace congress with a perl script. a short one.
1052 2010-12-11 05:23:27 <Diablo-D3> heads, the bill passes and everyone hates it, tails, the bill doesnt pass and everyone hates it
1053 2010-12-11 05:23:30 <appamatto> The point of the timestamp system is not to serve as a clock, but rather for it to regulate the production of blocks
1054 2010-12-11 05:23:36 <theymos> appamatto: Under no circumstances will you accept a block too far in the future. A ton of people could move blocks back in time.
1055 2010-12-11 05:23:38 <Diablo-D3> either way, everyone hates it
1056 2010-12-11 05:23:49 <ArtForz> difference between socialism and capitalism? "the party" instead of "the banks" owns everything ;)
1057 2010-12-11 05:23:54 <Diablo-D3> the only thing the government must do is make sure we cant kill each other, and maintain society
1058 2010-12-11 05:24:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: Ive been saying that for years
1059 2010-12-11 05:24:18 <Diablo-D3> except at least in a capitalist society, I can become one of those banks
1060 2010-12-11 05:24:21 <appamatto> theymos, I'm not talking about too future or too past, I'm talking about each client decided what time is best for its purposes, and nudging the timestamp forward or backward within the realm of acceptibility
1061 2010-12-11 05:24:36 <Diablo-D3> in soviet russia, you had to be left into the special club
1062 2010-12-11 05:24:46 <theymos> appamatto: If I receive a block and its timestamp is more than two hours in the future as I see it, I will reject that block.
1063 2010-12-11 05:24:47 <Diablo-D3> and they only let their own kind in
1064 2010-12-11 05:24:58 <Diablo-D3> anyone else was a dangerous influence to their perfect society and must be killed!
1065 2010-12-11 05:25:14 <Diablo-D3> lets kill the jews! and the polish! and the poor people! and the farmers! and the scientists!
1066 2010-12-11 05:25:23 <appamatto> theymos, oh ok.  I think that's overkill though
1067 2010-12-11 05:25:30 <Diablo-D3> oh look at that! no ones left in russia!
1068 2010-12-11 05:25:36 <Diablo-D3> fucking morons
1069 2010-12-11 05:25:49 <Diablo-D3> wipe them all out and be done with it
1070 2010-12-11 05:26:13 <appamatto> I think that instead of a timestamp notion there should be a rate of production notion that clients are essentially voting on
1071 2010-12-11 05:26:27 <ArtForz> which one is it? fucking morons or wiping em out?
1072 2010-12-11 05:26:29 <appamatto> That way no adjustments are ever needed to the protocol, and the system is self-regulating
1073 2010-12-11 05:27:21 <appamatto> It's one less concept for the system to attempt to deal with, and it seems like a cleaner design
1074 2010-12-11 05:28:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wipe out the fucking morons? yus plz
1075 2010-12-11 05:28:01 <maximi891> bitcoin should have a password to open it, and encrypt the user hash
1076 2010-12-11 05:28:23 <Diablo-D3> maximi891: doesnt matter, I can just spy the memory allocated by bitcoin and grab shit
1077 2010-12-11 05:28:24 <ArtForz> pointless
1078 2010-12-11 05:28:30 <ArtForz> exactly
1079 2010-12-11 05:28:37 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is not an especially secure or paranoid app
1080 2010-12-11 05:28:51 <theymos> It would be useful to have a "savings account" section of the wallet that requires a password to open.
1081 2010-12-11 05:28:52 <ArtForz> or install a keylogger and wait for the moro... user to enter the password
1082 2010-12-11 05:29:05 <Diablo-D3> luser, ArtForz, luser
1083 2010-12-11 05:29:09 <appamatto> keyloggers own all
1084 2010-12-11 05:29:15 <Diablo-D3> I mean hell
1085 2010-12-11 05:29:17 <appamatto> Unless you're using dasher
1086 2010-12-11 05:29:20 <Diablo-D3> the NSA probably knows my password
1087 2010-12-11 05:29:24 <ArtForz> if I own the box, I own the box
1088 2010-12-11 05:29:25 <Diablo-D3> using the van parked out on the street
1089 2010-12-11 05:29:27 <Diablo-D3> HI GUYS!
1090 2010-12-11 05:29:29 <Diablo-D3> I CAN SEE YOU
1091 2010-12-11 05:29:33 <appamatto> btw guys, if you haven't seen it you should take a look at dasher, the input method
1092 2010-12-11 05:29:41 <Diablo-D3> fucking using their shit to read the keys on my keyboard as I read them
1093 2010-12-11 05:29:41 <ArtForz> ahh, the Flowers By Irene van ;)
1094 2010-12-11 05:29:50 <Diablo-D3> using magical electromagnetic shit
1095 2010-12-11 05:30:03 <Diablo-D3> 8======D
1096 2010-12-11 05:30:07 <Diablo-D3> there, I sent them a penis
1097 2010-12-11 05:30:09 <Diablo-D3> I hope they're happy
1098 2010-12-11 05:30:12 <ArtForz> EM attacks are easy
1099 2010-12-11 05:30:26 <joe_1> appamatto: agree timestamp is worthless this was brought up in a thread on bitcoin.org. it is an anonymity weakness that clients give away their system time.
1100 2010-12-11 05:30:38 <Diablo-D3> its kind of depressing you dont even have to be in the same room to keylog anymore
1101 2010-12-11 05:30:40 <ArtForz> "my system runs ntp"
1102 2010-12-11 05:30:49 <ArtForz> yeah, now that gave away a lot of identity
1103 2010-12-11 05:31:20 <ArtForz> if your system time is more than 1 second off YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
1104 2010-12-11 05:31:28 <Diablo-D3> I mean, it used to require you to install software, or install a passthrough dongle, or put something on the physical controller in the keyboard
1105 2010-12-11 05:31:32 <Diablo-D3> but now
1106 2010-12-11 05:31:41 <Diablo-D3> just point a DirecTV dish at your target
1107 2010-12-11 05:31:42 <Diablo-D3> and bam
1108 2010-12-11 05:32:57 <ArtForz> and if your system time is the same as everyone elses to within one second you're revealing ... nothing
1109 2010-12-11 05:33:34 <joe_1> it's not needed and most clocks are not within 1 second.
1110 2010-12-11 05:33:39 <theymos> appamatto: I don't think it would even be possible to move time in the past by very much. Your timestamp can't be lower than the median for the last 11 blocks. So you can keep the timestamp at some level, but not go below it.
1111 2010-12-11 05:34:31 <maximi891> theymos: create your own NTP server? and change the Bios Time?
1112 2010-12-11 05:35:02 <ArtForz> yep
1113 2010-12-11 05:35:04 <appamatto> theymos, I think that clients could cooperate to change the time because most of them wanted to affect the rate of block production
1114 2010-12-11 05:35:27 <appamatto> It's better than changing the protocol
1115 2010-12-11 05:35:35 <maximi891> ok, if the blocks have the time, that could be impossible, i guess
1116 2010-12-11 05:35:44 <theymos> appamatto: But if you go below some level, everyone will reject it and you can nudge no further.
1117 2010-12-11 05:35:45 <ArtForz> it's still splitting the network
1118 2010-12-11 05:36:02 <appamatto> theymos, I'm talking about a situation where most users agree that extra production is needed
1119 2010-12-11 05:36:03 <joe_1> but, timestamp should not be used to calculate production rate. production rate should be calculated by each node separately based on time of receipt
1120 2010-12-11 05:36:23 <appamatto> you could be a stickler and reject the blocks, but you'd be disagreeing with the majority
1121 2010-12-11 05:36:23 <ArtForz> joe_1: and how the fuck does that work if clocks are not in sync?
1122 2010-12-11 05:36:31 <joe_1> cause it's relative
1123 2010-12-11 05:36:49 <ArtForz> so cumpter time is off by random amounts, but magically all those clocks are never slow or fast
1124 2010-12-11 05:37:09 <theymos> appamatto: I'm just saying that currently Bitcoin *will* stop attempts like that.
1125 2010-12-11 05:37:16 <appamatto> Like, let's say bitcoin really became popular and there were 1,000 clients.  How would we ever change the rate of production to suit the needs of the era?
1126 2010-12-11 05:37:21 <appamatto> Right
1127 2010-12-11 05:37:25 <joe_1> they are slow and fast, but not significantly so. if there is disagreement then the majority of cpu power will fight it out and the nodes that disagree will give up
1128 2010-12-11 05:37:27 <appamatto> theymos, but I don't think that's a good idea
1129 2010-12-11 05:37:42 <appamatto> I think bitcoin has several design decisions like this that aren't optimal
1130 2010-12-11 05:37:47 <theymos> Bitcoin is supposed to be a distributed timestamp server. Kind of useless if time is unreliable.
1131 2010-12-11 05:37:58 <ArtForz> no they wont, at least not in the current system
1132 2010-12-11 05:38:09 <appamatto> theymos, bitcoin doesn't require a timestamp server
1133 2010-12-11 05:38:17 <appamatto> it's only there to regulate difficultty
1134 2010-12-11 05:38:25 <joe_1> so if my node disagrees with a block, my node will never switch over to a longer chain, even when the longer chain grows many, many blocks longer than the one i'm working on?
1135 2010-12-11 05:38:33 <ArtForz> yep
1136 2010-12-11 05:38:34 <maximi891> the actual maximum it's 21 million right?
1137 2010-12-11 05:38:40 <MT`AwAy> you can try altering timestamp, but any alteration you manage to do will be made almost useless as soon as someone else generate one block
1138 2010-12-11 05:38:42 <ArtForz> because it'll still think the difficulty of that chain is wrong
1139 2010-12-11 05:38:45 <theymos> appamatto: It's also used for timing. "Do this thing in 5000 blocks."
1140 2010-12-11 05:38:55 <appamatto> theymos, but that's block time, not realtime
1141 2010-12-11 05:39:07 <theymos> Block time is related to real time.
1142 2010-12-11 05:39:11 <joe_1> I thought once a block has 6 confirmations then my node has to accept even if it has issues with blocks in the chain?
1143 2010-12-11 05:39:14 <appamatto> I'm asserting that bitcoin would still be bitcoin without realtime, only using block time
1144 2010-12-11 05:39:28 <theymos> Sure. But it would be slightly less useful.
1145 2010-12-11 05:39:30 <ArtForz> yet if 10% of miners keep producing blocks at "current time", the others WILL have to keep up
1146 2010-12-11 05:39:32 <appamatto> except more flexible, and basically better
1147 2010-12-11 05:39:49 <appamatto> ArtForz, remember it's sum(difficulty)
1148 2010-12-11 05:39:56 <ArtForz> so?
1149 2010-12-11 05:40:11 <appamatto> so, 10% of CPU always loses to 90%
1150 2010-12-11 05:40:15 <ArtForz> no
1151 2010-12-11 05:40:18 <appamatto> yes
1152 2010-12-11 05:40:28 <appamatto> try the math out
1153 2010-12-11 05:40:35 <ArtForz> those blocks would still be valid, just not skewed
1154 2010-12-11 05:40:55 <theymos> With the median, 100% of the network can keep the timestamp at one value. But if it ever moves even one second forward, you have to move to that new value.
1155 2010-12-11 05:40:56 <appamatto> if 90% is using less difficulty that will just result in more blocks being made
1156 2010-12-11 05:41:10 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: those blocks will be rejected
1157 2010-12-11 05:41:16 <ArtForz> and it's > median, not == median
1158 2010-12-11 05:41:23 <appamatto> MT, I'm not talking about exactly the current bitcoin
1159 2010-12-11 05:41:34 spacemagic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206121845])
1160 2010-12-11 05:41:37 <appamatto> I'm talking about a bitcoin that doesn't have as many hokey rules, and operates a little more generally
1161 2010-12-11 05:41:40 <ArtForz> = you have to move at least 1 sec every 6 blocks
1162 2010-12-11 05:41:41 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: if you try to use less difficulty, your hash will be invalid
1163 2010-12-11 05:42:02 <appamatto> appamatto, I'm talking about adjusting the timestamp and thereby affecting the difficulty
1164 2010-12-11 05:42:03 <joe_1> so the network will remain split forever if there's disagreement on difficulty? I thought there is a cut off where nodes that disagree will eventually go over to a longer chain once it has 6 more confirmations than the one it's working on?
1165 2010-12-11 05:42:15 <ArtForz> nope
1166 2010-12-11 05:42:43 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: yep, I know, but if you do that it'll benefit /all/ clients
1167 2010-12-11 05:42:45 <ArtForz> blocks with non-matching difficulty get flat-out rejected
1168 2010-12-11 05:42:46 <appamatto> my point in general is that time isn't used anywhere in bitcoin
1169 2010-12-11 05:43:01 <theymos> Bitcoin enforces certain rules even if you're the only one using them.
1170 2010-12-11 05:43:11 <appamatto> MT, this isn't an attack, this is a way for clients to cooperate to regulate the difficulty to make blocks occur more or less frequently than 10 minutes
1171 2010-12-11 05:43:50 <appamatto> Okay, let's forget about bitcoin, and let's talk about bitmoney.
1172 2010-12-11 05:44:10 <appamatto> in bitmoney, there is only blocktime, and the system regulates difficulty so that one block comes out about every one blocktime
1173 2010-12-11 05:44:13 <ArtForz> so any client not using you new "time is not time" rules rejects your chain
1174 2010-12-11 05:44:22 <ArtForz> how is that different from just changing the rules?
1175 2010-12-11 05:44:39 <appamatto> And when you make a block, you can basically set the time to anything you want given a certain range based on the last block's time
1176 2010-12-11 05:44:47 <ArtForz> no
1177 2010-12-11 05:44:53 <appamatto> ArtForz, I'm proposing an entirely separate system here
1178 2010-12-11 05:44:57 <appamatto> I'm not talking about bitcoin anymore
1179 2010-12-11 05:45:18 <ArtForz> yes, you can create a bitcoin clone with 5 minutes or 50 years per block
1180 2010-12-11 05:45:31 <appamatto> ArtForz I'm not talking about changing that arbitrary decision
1181 2010-12-11 05:45:40 <appamatto> I'm talking about delegating the production rate to users at large
1182 2010-12-11 05:45:53 <appamatto> So that the rate is no longer a protocol decision
1183 2010-12-11 05:45:55 <appamatto> make sense?
1184 2010-12-11 05:46:08 <ArtForz> so you want a vote on difficulty?
1185 2010-12-11 05:46:20 <ArtForz> voted on by what? IPs? CPU power?
1186 2010-12-11 05:46:26 <appamatto> No, basically each client can set the timestamp arbitrarily, within clearly defined limits from the last timestamp
1187 2010-12-11 05:46:39 <appamatto> and this timestamp then affects difficulty like it does now
1188 2010-12-11 05:46:48 <ArtForz> #1 is easy to game, #2 ... miners decide to create more blocks, miners decide to create more blocks, miners decide to create more blocks, ...
1189 2010-12-11 05:47:04 <appamatto> ArtForz, but they all can make more blocks at that rate
1190 2010-12-11 05:47:07 <theymos> Getting a difficulty that is too low is really bad. It allows an attacker to get more influence based on network power rather than just CPU power.
1191 2010-12-11 05:47:25 <joe_1> theymos: is this because of the 6 confirmation cut off?
1192 2010-12-11 05:47:27 <appamatto> and again, longest chain is still sum(difficulty)
1193 2010-12-11 05:47:44 <appamatto> see what I'm saying?
1194 2010-12-11 05:47:57 <ArtForz> yes
1195 2010-12-11 05:48:06 <ArtForz> and most profitable chain is lowest difficulty
1196 2010-12-11 05:48:10 <theymos> joe_1: Confirmed/unconfirmed is a UI thing. It's not used anywhere. You always use the longest chain, unless it is invalid, in which case you never use it.
1197 2010-12-11 05:48:14 <appamatto> It doesn't matter if an attacker sets easy timestamps, because the majority still has a greater sum(diff)
1198 2010-12-11 05:48:21 <maximi891> what happen if i need to open my account in other computer?, ie: we are traveling, and we need to buy more VOIP minuts, what i need?
1199 2010-12-11 05:48:48 <ArtForz> appamatto: yes, so?
1200 2010-12-11 05:48:58 <appamatto> so pretent 10% set the client on a spiral of low difficulty.  90% will still be able to generate more blocks at that difficulty
1201 2010-12-11 05:48:59 <joe_1> theymos: i had it said to me that there are certain things that a node will "forgive" if it means it gets to move onto a competing chain that has 6 more confirmations than the one it's working on.
1202 2010-12-11 05:49:11 <theymos> joe_1: You heard wrong.
1203 2010-12-11 05:49:20 <joe_1> ok.
1204 2010-12-11 05:49:26 <appamatto> so 90% will always beat 10%
1205 2010-12-11 05:49:42 <ArtForz> why would 90% of miners vote for "less blocks" when each block == profit?
1206 2010-12-11 05:50:48 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: since everyone shares the same blockchain, everyone shares the same difficulty, no matter what the difficulty is, the more computing power you have the more blocks you'll be able to sign, that's all
1207 2010-12-11 05:50:48 <appamatto> Is see what you're saying
1208 2010-12-11 05:52:02 <ArtForz> thats the nearly perverse beauty of bitcoin, it uses economic theory to enforce "fair" rules
1209 2010-12-11 05:52:14 <appamatto> I'm trying to do the same thing
1210 2010-12-11 05:52:19 <appamatto> just with less and more robust rules
1211 2010-12-11 05:52:25 <joe_1> What if there is ever an issue where a timestamp is out of range by such a small fraction of a second that you get a 70%/30% split of agreement and disagreement on whether the difficulty was great enough?
1212 2010-12-11 05:52:28 <maximi891> how many connections are the normal in bitcoin? i have ever just 8
1213 2010-12-11 05:52:35 <theymos> maximi891: That's normal.
1214 2010-12-11 05:52:43 <maximi891> thanks theymos
1215 2010-12-11 05:52:55 <ArtForz> joe_1: as block timestamps are IN THE BLOCKS and whole seconds, it can't happen
1216 2010-12-11 05:53:19 <joe_1> but what if the timestamp is in the future, and so close to the line between being too far into the future and acceptable that you get that split?
1217 2010-12-11 05:53:30 <theymos> The rest of the network will accept it in a second.
1218 2010-12-11 05:53:31 <appamatto> ArtForz, in that case there would be an incentive by btc holders to raise the difficulty
1219 2010-12-11 05:53:45 <appamatto> Actually I think it works out
1220 2010-12-11 05:54:10 <ArtForz> try it, I think you'll get huge oscillations
1221 2010-12-11 05:54:34 <appamatto> Imagine you just mined a large number of coins.  Meanwhile some newbs come in and your 20% of CPU becomes 10% of CPU.  Do you just let things get easier and easier?
1222 2010-12-11 05:54:51 <appamatto> Yeah, it's much more of a push-pull
1223 2010-12-11 05:54:55 <ArtForz> joe_1: hrmmm... good question
1224 2010-12-11 05:56:04 <appamatto> ArtForz, my idea is to remove rules that seem unnecessary, because a lot of the rules seemed designed to prevent attacks that are already prevented in the absence of rules
1225 2010-12-11 05:56:12 <appamatto> a more libertarian bitcoin, if you will
1226 2010-12-11 05:57:09 <theymos> How would Satoshi's proposal to share work between different chains work?
1227 2010-12-11 05:57:24 <ArtForz> theymos: nobody knows, my guess is a meta-chain
1228 2010-12-11 05:58:22 <theymos> It sounded like the block header for each chain would be included in a transaction in the other one.
1229 2010-12-11 05:58:31 <ArtForz> kinda
1230 2010-12-11 05:58:40 <ArtForz> I think something like block-blocks
1231 2010-12-11 05:58:51 Cibort has joined
1232 2010-12-11 05:59:02 <ArtForz> meta-block header contains hash tree of block headers and nonce
1233 2010-12-11 05:59:03 <Cibort> :P
1234 2010-12-11 05:59:16 <joe_1> theymos: is there a thread about his proposal about multiple chains?
1235 2010-12-11 05:59:22 <noagendamarket> I think it will be leggo blocks
1236 2010-12-11 05:59:25 <maximi891> what controls the limit of bitcoins generated?
1237 2010-12-11 05:59:36 <ArtForz> blocjk headers contain difficulty and backref to last meta-block header of their chain
1238 2010-12-11 06:00:06 <maximi891> there is something in the protocol who limits the BTC?
1239 2010-12-11 06:00:15 <theymos> joe_1: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.msg28696#msg28696 Also see later posts by him in the thread.
1240 2010-12-11 06:00:26 <joe_1> thanks
1241 2010-12-11 06:01:13 <theymos> maximi891: A block generates a certain number of bitcoins. After so many blocks are created, the value per block halves. This eventually results in just less than 21 million coins. Anyone breaking these rules will have their blocks rejected.
1242 2010-12-11 06:01:49 <Cibort> Mejor hagan todo gratis en el mundo y problema solucionado :D
1243 2010-12-11 06:04:45 <theymos> Yeah; it does sound like he wants to use a hash tree to connect the two chains. But he seems to think it can be hacked together without modifying Bitcoin.
1244 2010-12-11 06:05:18 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1245 2010-12-11 06:05:29 <maximi891> theymos: but who will reject it? the protocol by itself?
1246 2010-12-11 06:05:44 <theymos> maximi891: If you receive an illegal block, you will reject it.
1247 2010-12-11 06:07:26 <ArtForz> theymos: yeah, I'm trying to figure out how that would work
1248 2010-12-11 06:09:20 <theymos> We're all totally out of Satoshi's league in the theory behind Bitcoin. He's researched this for a long time...
1249 2010-12-11 06:09:29 <ArtForz> yup
1250 2010-12-11 06:12:39 <MT`AwAy> would anyone be willing to help me to put together a quick homepage for my bitcoin client? (I'm a bit more busy coding it than poking html'n css)
1251 2010-12-11 06:14:49 <MT`AwAy> ... for some bitcoins?
1252 2010-12-11 06:15:49 <maximi891> how looks your client? what have of special? :D
1253 2010-12-11 06:16:38 <joe_1> yeah what does it do
1254 2010-12-11 06:19:12 <maximi891> MT`AwAy:
1255 2010-12-11 06:20:01 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: it's a full rewrite, using Qt instead of wx, and implementing some features that were requested
1256 2010-12-11 06:20:27 <MT`AwAy> it supports interesting things such as connecting to two networks at the same time (ie main & testnet, could be bitdns or other chains in the future)
1257 2010-12-11 06:21:02 <maximi891> MT`AwAy: the Linux client use WX too right?
1258 2010-12-11 06:21:09 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: yep
1259 2010-12-11 06:21:16 <MT`AwAy> the current client
1260 2010-12-11 06:21:36 <MT`AwAy> https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,4.0.html <- got a features list there (not the same forum as bitcoin.org
1261 2010-12-11 06:23:06 <maximi891> MT`AwAy: which language do you want to use in your website?
1262 2010-12-11 06:23:24 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: php would be nice
1263 2010-12-11 06:23:40 <maximi891> Cibort: sabes programar en PHP?
1264 2010-12-11 06:24:07 <Cibort> Antes me manejaba mas
1265 2010-12-11 06:25:26 <maximi891> MT`AwAy necesita gente para programar un sitio web para su cliente de Bitcoins, quiere hacerlo en PHP, crees tener el conocimiento? o tienes amigos que sí?
1266 2010-12-11 06:25:44 <maximi891> Cibort:
1267 2010-12-11 06:26:00 <Cibort> <b>Dime</b>
1268 2010-12-11 06:26:01 <Cibort> LOL
1269 2010-12-11 06:26:03 <Cibort> xd
1270 2010-12-11 06:27:10 * MT`AwAy do not understand spanish, but somewhat understands what's being said (well, not that much)
1271 2010-12-11 06:27:46 grondilu has joined
1272 2010-12-11 06:28:13 <grondilu> Hi, I've started an auction for a gold coin !  http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2209.msg29099;topicseen#msg29099
1273 2010-12-11 06:29:00 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: encore?
1274 2010-12-11 06:29:09 <grondilu> ouai
1275 2010-12-11 06:29:41 <grondilu> MT`AwAy: t'es français ?
1276 2010-12-11 06:29:49 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: yep, mais je vis au Japon
1277 2010-12-11 06:29:54 <grondilu> cool
1278 2010-12-11 06:29:58 <maximi891> MT`AwAy: well, i have a friend who knows a lot of PHP, he made very good sites, not sure if it's HTML5 or PHP the site i saw, but he is a very good programmer
1279 2010-12-11 06:30:50 <maximi891> he is not right now, as soon i saw it i will tell
1280 2010-12-11 06:30:56 <MT`AwAy> ok
1281 2010-12-11 06:33:17 <maximi891> MT`AwAy: for what is the BD used?
1282 2010-12-11 06:33:49 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: for the site I'm planning on standard php/mysql hosting
1283 2010-12-11 06:34:20 <maximi891> have you heard about mongodb?
1284 2010-12-11 06:34:24 <MT`AwAy> yeah
1285 2010-12-11 06:34:30 <MT`AwAy> but it's a pain to backup
1286 2010-12-11 06:35:11 <MT`AwAy> anyway  there's almost no need for programming
1287 2010-12-11 06:35:14 <MT`AwAy> mostly design
1288 2010-12-11 06:36:10 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: les frais d'envoi sont inclus dans l'enchère ?
1289 2010-12-11 06:36:21 <grondilu> ouai
1290 2010-12-11 06:36:34 <maximi891> lol
1291 2010-12-11 06:36:40 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: en fait ma question c'est plutôt "est-ce que ça a des chances d'arriver jusqu'au Japon?"
1292 2010-12-11 06:36:43 <grondilu> "to wherever in the world"
1293 2010-12-11 06:36:45 acous has joined
1294 2010-12-11 06:36:46 acous has quit (Changing host)
1295 2010-12-11 06:36:46 acous has joined
1296 2010-12-11 06:37:02 <grondilu> y'a pas de raison.  dai jo veuh  ;)
1297 2010-12-11 06:37:21 <MT`AwAy> ok
1298 2010-12-11 06:38:39 <maximi891> MT`AwAy: what about that networks you said? main and test? both are compatible right?
1299 2010-12-11 06:39:06 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: you mean in my client?
1300 2010-12-11 06:39:20 <maximi891> in general
1301 2010-12-11 06:39:39 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: both works the same way, addresses are different to avoid confusion
1302 2010-12-11 06:40:06 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: the address is prefixed by a "version" byte, which is 0 on main network, and 111 on test network (make addresses on main net always start with a 1, while on testnet they start with m or n)
1303 2010-12-11 06:41:44 <maximi891> nice
1304 2010-12-11 06:42:22 <MT`AwAy> ie, for example on main network an address looks like "15VjRaDX9zpbA8LVnbrCAFzrVzN7ixHNsC", on testnet like "mh7iEumGX2WXLWT9aYEovDLjMqudLQwJS2"
1305 2010-12-11 06:42:35 <MT`AwAy> on main net, addresses will /always/ start with a 1
1306 2010-12-11 06:43:51 <maximi891> there could be a version for mobiles
1307 2010-12-11 06:44:01 <maximi891> android and other OS
1308 2010-12-11 06:44:11 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: I'm thinking about it, like many other people
1309 2010-12-11 06:44:52 <MT`AwAy> my client's components should be easily portable to symbian os (nokia), and some of those components (wallet handler for example) can be ported more widely
1310 2010-12-11 06:45:01 <MT`AwAy> the wallet handler depends on no external lib :)
1311 2010-12-11 06:48:19 Cibort has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1312 2010-12-11 06:50:33 <grondilu> MT`AwAy: y'a toujous pas de traduction japonaise au site bitcoin.org.  Tu pourrais aider à y remédier ?
1313 2010-12-11 06:50:54 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: pas trop le temps, trop occupé a coder mon client bitcoin
1314 2010-12-11 06:51:12 <grondilu> oh
1315 2010-12-11 06:51:23 <grondilu> quel langage ?
1316 2010-12-11 06:51:26 <MT`AwAy> C++ / Qt
1317 2010-12-11 06:51:32 <MT`AwAy> et le wallet en C pur
1318 2010-12-11 06:51:40 <MT`AwAy> plus d'infos sur https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,4.0.html
1319 2010-12-11 06:52:32 * grondilu didn't know about bitcoin.in
1320 2010-12-11 06:53:25 <MT`AwAy> it's mine :)
1321 2010-12-11 06:53:28 <grondilu> MT`AwAy: t'es aussi magickaltux ?
1322 2010-12-11 06:53:33 <MT`AwAy> (set it up when bitcoin.org was down)
1323 2010-12-11 06:53:37 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: yep
1324 2010-12-11 06:55:06 <grondilu> bitcoin.in c'est juste une alternative en cas de défaillance de bitcoin.org ou tu ça a un objectif propre ?
1325 2010-12-11 06:55:19 <grondilu> s/tu//
1326 2010-12-11 06:55:53 <MT`AwAy> j'ai un objectif, c'est mon client bitcoin (et quelques autres trucs après) ;)
1327 2010-12-11 06:57:10 <grondilu> est-ce que ton client aura des chances d'être plus acilement packageable sous Debian ?
1328 2010-12-11 06:57:20 <MT`AwAy> yep
1329 2010-12-11 06:57:34 <MT`AwAy> pas de lib wx bizarre, et je fournirait les .deb de base :)
1330 2010-12-11 06:57:49 <grondilu> cool
1331 2010-12-11 06:58:42 <grondilu> pour debian un truc qui bloque en ce moment c'est l'utilisation de "JSON spirit".  Tu l'utilises aussi ?
1332 2010-12-11 06:59:15 <MT`AwAy> nop
1333 2010-12-11 06:59:23 <MT`AwAy> je vais devoir coder ma propre lib json
1334 2010-12-11 06:59:32 <MT`AwAy> vu que je ne veux pas de license merdique
1335 2010-12-11 06:59:33 <MT`AwAy> :D
1336 2010-12-11 06:59:41 <MT`AwAy> en attendant j'utiliserait le json de Qt
1337 2010-12-11 06:59:42 <grondilu> t'es assez balèse pour faire ça ?
1338 2010-12-11 06:59:51 <ne0futur> licence merdique = GPL pour MT`AwAy :p
1339 2010-12-11 07:00:02 * MT`AwAy veut un client libre :D
1340 2010-12-11 07:00:07 <ne0futur> oui il est assez balais , je confirm ;)
1341 2010-12-11 07:00:49 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: t'as emerge la nouvelle version de bitcoin depuis mon overlay?
1342 2010-12-11 07:00:52 <ne0futur> ceci dit la ca va meriter un #bitcoin-fr je crois
1343 2010-12-11 07:01:00 <grondilu> bien.  J'ai hâte de voir bitcoin dispo sur les dépo debian  :)
1344 2010-12-11 07:01:04 <ne0futur> pas encore eu le temps en fait la
1345 2010-12-11 07:01:21 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: si tu utilise rpcssl=true faut remplacer par rpcssl=1
1346 2010-12-11 07:01:23 <grondilu> ne0futur: toi aussi t'es french ?
1347 2010-12-11 07:01:37 <ne0futur> oui, mais moi je vis au Perou ;)
1348 2010-12-11 07:01:39 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: lui aussi et il vis au pérou, a nous trois on a 3 continents
1349 2010-12-11 07:01:49 <grondilu> lol
1350 2010-12-11 07:02:00 TheAncientGoat has joined
1351 2010-12-11 07:02:16 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: tu veux pas me faire un ptit site pour mon client bitcoin ? XD
1352 2010-12-11 07:02:24 <grondilu> en gros y'a que moi qui suis assez c.. pour rester à Paris  ;)
1353 2010-12-11 07:02:35 <ne0futur> bah si ya moyen si t as rien contre spip ;)
1354 2010-12-11 07:02:48 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: tant que tu le fait marcher, c'est pas mon problème
1355 2010-12-11 07:02:49 <MT`AwAy> xd
1356 2010-12-11 07:03:12 <ne0futur> bon on en cause demain
1357 2010-12-11 07:03:12 <MT`AwAy> (seul truc que j'ai contre spip c'est le manque de SEO au niveau des urls avec article.php?id= ou jesaisplusquoi)
1358 2010-12-11 07:03:24 <MT`AwAy> spip.php plutôt
1359 2010-12-11 07:03:25 <ne0futur> MT`AwAy: url propres2
1360 2010-12-11 07:03:29 <appamatto> theymos, I didn't undertand Satoshi's proposal, and it didn't really sound like a good idea
1361 2010-12-11 07:03:33 <ne0futur> c une option de spip standard
1362 2010-12-11 07:03:42 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: que personne n'use I guess
1363 2010-12-11 07:03:52 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: Satoshi's proposal?
1364 2010-12-11 07:03:54 <ne0futur> http://ww7.pe/-posicionamiento-.html
1365 2010-12-11 07:03:56 <ne0futur> c un spip
1366 2010-12-11 07:04:07 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: 'k
1367 2010-12-11 07:04:11 <appamatto> For linking the bitdns and bitcoin chains somehow
1368 2010-12-11 07:04:15 <ne0futur> si c est tres utilise quand meme
1369 2010-12-11 07:05:04 <ne0futur> par contre ca demande le htaccess spip et le rewrite apache
1370 2010-12-11 07:05:15 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: c'est compatible avec mon hosting
1371 2010-12-11 07:05:17 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: url?
1372 2010-12-11 07:05:56 <theymos> MT`AwAy: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.msg28696#msg28696
1373 2010-12-11 07:06:20 <theymos> Sounds good to me. It should make BitX unnecessary. I don't understand it, though.
1374 2010-12-11 07:06:41 <appamatto> theymos, I don't see how it generalizes to more than two apps
1375 2010-12-11 07:06:51 <appamatto> it sounds like there is an exponential explosion
1376 2010-12-11 07:06:51 <MT`AwAy> mh
1377 2010-12-11 07:06:52 Lyspooner has joined
1378 2010-12-11 07:07:06 <ArtForz> I dont get how it's supposed to work at all
1379 2010-12-11 07:07:18 <theymos> appamatto: It seems to me that you can generate for any number of chains without any significant increase in cost.
1380 2010-12-11 07:07:39 <appamatto> ArtForz, it seems like you generate for either chain and then also submit the block to the other chain?
1381 2010-12-11 07:07:53 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: maybe he want to merge the merkle hash chains?
1382 2010-12-11 07:08:22 <ArtForz> I just don't quite see how its supposed to work without changing bitcoin protocol
1383 2010-12-11 07:08:58 <ArtForz> creating a merkle tree of headers for different chains and hashing that would work
1384 2010-12-11 07:09:28 <ArtForz> but that doesnt sound like what he's proposing
1385 2010-12-11 07:09:43 <MT`AwAy> he didn't say his proposal involved no change to the bitcoin protocol
1386 2010-12-11 07:09:52 <ArtForz> he didnt?
1387 2010-12-11 07:10:02 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.msg28696#msg28696 <- here at least he didn't
1388 2010-12-11 07:10:05 <theymos> He did, in a later post.
1389 2010-12-11 07:10:09 <ArtForz> yea
1390 2010-12-11 07:10:13 <appamatto> a merkle tree of headers for different chains is what bitx is, afaict?
1391 2010-12-11 07:10:25 <ArtForz> and I dont quite see how that is supposed to work
1392 2010-12-11 07:10:46 <ArtForz> to solve a bitcoin block you need to hash its header
1393 2010-12-11 07:11:04 <ArtForz> so otherchain blocks would have to refer to bitcoin header POWs somehow
1394 2010-12-11 07:11:43 <theymos> Am I correct in thinking that "~200 extra bytes" is the size of a block header + Merkle tree?
1395 2010-12-11 07:11:46 RazielZ has joined
1396 2010-12-11 07:11:51 <appamatto> what satoshi said in that message sounds like the bitx proposal
1397 2010-12-11 07:12:11 <MT`AwAy> you could have the new chain support cross signature with the old chain based on a custom transaction
1398 2010-12-11 07:12:39 <MT`AwAy> ie, you hash the bitdns header as a "bitdns sign transaction" in the main bitcoin chain, then when you're awarded a bitcoin block, it "signs" the bitdns block
1399 2010-12-11 07:12:59 <maximi891> MT`AwAy: your software will support IPV6?
1400 2010-12-11 07:13:10 <ArtForz> but thats polluting the bitcoin chain with non-currency data !!1one
1401 2010-12-11 07:13:50 <MT`AwAy> maximi891: yep, however it won't be able to exchange ipv6 nodes with bitcoin standard clients
1402 2010-12-11 07:14:21 <ArtForz> hmmmmm
1403 2010-12-11 07:14:27 <ArtForz> I might see a way to make it work
1404 2010-12-11 07:15:23 <ArtForz> otherchain blocks refer to bitcoin block headers, signed by private key of that bitcoin blocks coinbase
1405 2010-12-11 07:16:03 <theymos> That doesn't seem to be what he's thinking of, since he mentioned that different difficulties would have different probabilities.
1406 2010-12-11 07:16:24 <ArtForz> well, it would work fine if otherchain blocks have higher difficulty
1407 2010-12-11 07:16:44 <ArtForz> it would also work fine if otherchain stores not-made-bitcoin-limit blocks
1408 2010-12-11 07:17:52 <xelister> <ArtForz> and if your system time is the same as everyone elses to within one second you're revealing ... nothing
1409 2010-12-11 07:18:31 <ArtForz> xelister: yes?
1410 2010-12-11 07:19:01 <xelister> ArtForz: how about ovserving closly at which milisecond the second increases by one
1411 2010-12-11 07:19:13 <ArtForz> you get the peers time in the version message
1412 2010-12-11 07:19:26 <ArtForz> packet send loop has a granularity of 100ms
1413 2010-12-11 07:19:40 <ArtForz> network delay exists
1414 2010-12-11 07:19:55 Grantttt has joined
1415 2010-12-11 07:20:06 <xelister> it could make sense to randomize the time a bit to hide possible drift
1416 2010-12-11 07:20:22 <ArtForz> = you'd have to connect to the same node 100s of times and get their local time to about 0.1s accuracy
1417 2010-12-11 07:20:28 <xelister> if we are at level where this type of attack actually is the most important one (after the obvious ones are resolved)
1418 2010-12-11 07:20:48 <ArtForz> yeah
1419 2010-12-11 07:20:57 <ArtForz> not likely to happen with current network topology
1420 2010-12-11 07:21:15 <xelister> granulity of 100ms = 0.1 sec... perhaps just connect like 10 times to detect taht actuallu, not 100. Anyway, 100 or 10000 is triviall
1421 2010-12-11 07:21:19 <xelister> or 1000000
1422 2010-12-11 07:21:36 <ArtForz> yeah, that wont look suspicious at all
1423 2010-12-11 07:21:38 <xelister> at some point we should build in [more?] anti-DoS
1424 2010-12-11 07:21:38 <ArtForz> ;)
1425 2010-12-11 07:21:49 <ArtForz> yep, curent network really doesnt have much protection
1426 2010-12-11 07:22:02 <xelister> ArtForz: yes, and once you detected it, you can sue the government and accuse Lolbama of rape
1427 2010-12-11 07:22:13 <xelister> uh, no, wait. thats the parrallell, good universe A
1428 2010-12-11 07:22:21 * xelister doesnt like it here in universe 1
1429 2010-12-11 07:22:29 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1430 2010-12-11 07:22:41 <ArtForz> no, your firewall automagically blacklists the node DoSing you :P
1431 2010-12-11 07:22:45 <theymos> ArtForz: Do you think the network could survive if Wikileaks started using Bitcoin?
1432 2010-12-11 07:22:57 <xelister> theymos: they would accuse Satoshi of raping
1433 2010-12-11 07:22:59 <xelister> an octopus
1434 2010-12-11 07:23:02 <xelister> that was also a minor
1435 2010-12-11 07:23:10 <xelister> and an afroamerican (hate crime)
1436 2010-12-11 07:23:29 <xelister> at least we would finally know who he is lol
1437 2010-12-11 07:23:30 <ArtForz> you forgot the wearing an eyepatch part
1438 2010-12-11 07:24:35 <xelister> funny part is that american solidars are actually raping minors non-white people right over there, in the stupid war that was supposed to take care of weapons of mass destr- WAIT, LOOK RIGHT THERE! A PIRATE! AND A PEDO! CHASE HIM
1439 2010-12-11 07:24:46 <ArtForz> lol
1440 2010-12-11 07:24:53 <xelister> wait what we where talking about? ah, superball. /me flips tv channels
1441 2010-12-11 07:26:10 <xelister> speaking of faggots
1442 2010-12-11 07:26:16 <ArtForz> btw, if we're extending network protocol, how bout socks4a support and addr-like messages containing .onion identifiers?
1443 2010-12-11 07:26:34 <xelister> WL publishes how polish was licking USA's ass to get patriot anti-planes/missile missiles
1444 2010-12-11 07:26:38 <ArtForz> a working network of bitcoin hidden service nodes would be somewhat... cool
1445 2010-12-11 07:26:51 <appamatto> Is sum(diff) stored in the bitcoin header?
1446 2010-12-11 07:27:00 <ArtForz> no
1447 2010-12-11 07:27:13 <ArtForz> why would it be? it's easy to calculate
1448 2010-12-11 07:27:19 <xelister> no matter what for the fuck Poland would need such missiles, or how would it help with stoping milions of russians charging with kalashnikovs
1449 2010-12-11 07:27:33 <xelister> but the missiles where... UNARMED. Without header. Oh.
1450 2010-12-11 07:27:58 <xelister> Now to fix this faux pas, USA offers Poland marveles airplanes instead
1451 2010-12-11 07:28:12 <ArtForz> pfff, russians build anti-anti-missile-missile-missiles
1452 2010-12-11 07:28:17 <xelister> F-16's, from 1974
1453 2010-12-11 07:28:29 <xelister> interesting thing is, it appears, this airplanes
1454 2010-12-11 07:28:32 <ArtForz> btw, they actually kinda did :P
1455 2010-12-11 07:28:38 <xelister> 1) Poland will have to buy (not get)
1456 2010-12-11 07:28:41 <xelister> 2) will be... unarmed.
1457 2010-12-11 07:29:24 <xelister> perhaps their can at least be used as scouts for the unarmed missiles
1458 2010-12-11 07:29:57 <appamatto> ArtForz, how is it easy to calculate, without iterating over the entire chain?
1459 2010-12-11 07:30:52 <ArtForz> you have to iterate over the entire chain. once.
1460 2010-12-11 07:31:05 <appamatto> makes it hard to forget blocks
1461 2010-12-11 07:31:10 <ArtForz> not really
1462 2010-12-11 07:31:52 <theymos> You just need the headers. By the way: I noticed that 0.3.18 includes new getheaders/headers messages. That's pretty cool.
1463 2010-12-11 07:32:01 <ArtForz> yep
1464 2010-12-11 07:32:17 <ArtForz> and you dont even really need old headers if you dont think the chain will fork
1465 2010-12-11 07:32:28 <appamatto> right, that makes sense
1466 2010-12-11 07:34:42 <MT`AwAy> decoding base58 is a pain in C
1467 2010-12-11 07:35:21 <ArtForz> yep
1468 2010-12-11 07:35:37 <ArtForz> drop the "in C" part
1469 2010-12-11 07:35:57 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: nah, I managed it
1470 2010-12-11 07:36:00 <MT`AwAy> was just a pain
1471 2010-12-11 07:36:14 <ArtForz> well, it's a pain in python as well
1472 2010-12-11 07:36:38 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1473 2010-12-11 07:36:55 <ArtForz> = probably also a pain in java, php, ruby and brainfuck
1474 2010-12-11 07:37:04 <MT`AwAy> already did it in php
1475 2010-12-11 07:37:18 <MT`AwAy> now that I have done it in C, I hope I won't get attacked by a velociraptor
1476 2010-12-11 07:37:24 <MT`AwAy> ( http://xkcd.com/292/ )
1477 2010-12-11 07:37:38 <ArtForz> hehehe
1478 2010-12-11 07:40:12 <MT`AwAy> ok now I just need to run sha256 to check the 4 bytes of hash
1479 2010-12-11 07:43:23 <appamatto> fossil is so cool
1480 2010-12-11 07:45:40 <appamatto> he's right on about including a wiki in an SCM
1481 2010-12-11 07:45:48 <appamatto> It's great even for solo development
1482 2010-12-11 07:52:35 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1483 2010-12-11 07:57:06 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1484 2010-12-11 07:58:16 <appamatto> I thought of a good way to tax app creation in bitx.
1485 2010-12-11 07:58:44 <appamatto> You can either add blocks to old apps (getting 50 btc, 50 bitdns names or whatever) OR you can create on new app, but not both
1486 2010-12-11 07:59:30 <ArtForz> how would the difficulty of a new-app-block be determined?
1487 2010-12-11 08:00:20 <appamatto> Well, here's my fossil wiki.  It's a work in progress: http://li210-235.members.linode.com:8080/wiki?name=bitx
1488 2010-12-11 08:00:38 <appamatto> Skip down to anatomy of a bitx block
1489 2010-12-11 08:00:41 maximi891 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1490 2010-12-11 08:00:47 <appamatto> I think I found an elegant system
1491 2010-12-11 08:02:00 <doublec> someone needs a domain name :-p
1492 2010-12-11 08:02:03 <appamatto> haha
1493 2010-12-11 08:02:14 <appamatto> I have one, but it's pointing to my blog :p
1494 2010-12-11 08:02:55 <doublec> I thought it might be some protest against the existing DNS system until your own one works ;)
1495 2010-12-11 08:04:08 <appamatto> ArtForz, it's much more simple than bitcoin's method.  Basically difficulty = the number of leading zero bits
1496 2010-12-11 08:04:49 <appamatto> if #blocks > timestamp, difficulty++.  If #blocks < timestamp, difficulty--
1497 2010-12-11 08:05:08 <appamatto> Timestamp is not realtime, but actually just an expression of the network's lust/distaste for blocks
1498 2010-12-11 08:06:21 <appamatto> Ignore the propaganda at the top of the page :p
1499 2010-12-11 08:14:49 <appamatto> ArtForz, oh, you were asking about app blocks
1500 2010-12-11 08:15:08 <appamatto> app blocks have no difficulty outside of the enclosing bitx block
1501 2010-12-11 08:15:53 <appamatto> and I took out the app backlink, because I think it's too bothersome for bitx clients to validate
1502 2010-12-11 08:16:25 <appamatto> bitx clients should be able to forget almost everything, and some bitapps don't care about history
1503 2010-12-11 08:17:10 <appamatto> so I think app backlinks should go into the header of the app blocks themselves and get validated by clients who care about those apps, since they'll have the means to validate them
1504 2010-12-11 08:17:30 <appamatto> going to sleep!
1505 2010-12-11 08:20:32 <AAA_awright> How does it go with an accurate time then?
1506 2010-12-11 08:21:06 <appamatto> AAA_awright, it doesn't have a concept of time
1507 2010-12-11 08:21:19 <AAA_awright> It's about a block every 10 minutes though? How does it keep that?
1508 2010-12-11 08:21:27 <appamatto> other than the block creation timing that clients express opinion about
1509 2010-12-11 08:21:47 <appamatto> AAA_awright actually the block frequency varies according to how clients set the "timestamp"
1510 2010-12-11 08:22:02 <AAA_awright> That could be attacked maybe?
1511 2010-12-11 08:22:13 <appamatto> I should probably call it "block demand" instead of "timestamp", but it's basically identical to btc timestamp but with a different interpretation
1512 2010-12-11 08:22:44 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
1513 2010-12-11 08:22:55 <MT`AwAy> BTCD 1111111111111111111114oLvT2 => OK 0 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000
1514 2010-12-11 08:23:05 <appamatto> AAA_awright, yes, it's basically the main vector for attack, but I don't think the attack works
1515 2010-12-11 08:23:40 <appamatto> Might need to do an experiment to prove my point though :p
1516 2010-12-11 08:28:31 <appamatto> MT, what does that mean?
1517 2010-12-11 08:30:06 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: just implement bitcoin address decoding in C, had a bit of trouble with value being shifted (now fixed)
1518 2010-12-11 08:31:25 <appamatto> awesome to have more clients
1519 2010-12-11 08:31:39 <appamatto> It adds seriousness to getting the protocol right now
1520 2010-12-11 08:33:07 <finnomenon> is the highest number of confirmations for a certain tranaaction known?
1521 2010-12-11 08:33:15 <MT`AwAy> finnomenon: there's no ma
1522 2010-12-11 08:33:16 <MT`AwAy> lax
1523 2010-12-11 08:33:17 <MT`AwAy> max*
1524 2010-12-11 08:33:24 <finnomenon> the highst somebody has seen I meant
1525 2010-12-11 08:33:33 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,count
1526 2010-12-11 08:33:34 <gribble> Error: "bc,count" is not a valid command.
1527 2010-12-11 08:33:39 <MT`AwAy> mh, what was the command?
1528 2010-12-11 08:33:40 <MT`AwAy> xD
1529 2010-12-11 08:33:50 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,stats
1530 2010-12-11 08:33:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96974 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1809 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 10 hours, 56 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12356.58484377
1531 2010-12-11 08:33:56 <[Noodles]> that one?
1532 2010-12-11 08:33:57 <theymos> finnomenon: The highest one would be the confirmations in the genesis generation. Which would be blockcount+1.
1533 2010-12-11 08:33:58 <finnomenon> and is it likely to be roughly equivalent to the number of bitcoin users?
1534 2010-12-11 08:34:08 <MT`AwAy> anyway, assuming satoshi made the first few blocks, he got a confirmation count close to 96974
1535 2010-12-11 08:34:10 <appamatto> finnomenon, each block adds a confirmation, so if you did a transaction out of the genesis block you could have a #comfs of ~10k
1536 2010-12-11 08:34:27 <finnomenon> ok
1537 2010-12-11 08:34:57 lfm has joined
1538 2010-12-11 08:36:36 <[Noodles]> 100k, not just 10, my highest is already 40+k
1539 2010-12-11 08:36:50 <appamatto> are you sure?
1540 2010-12-11 08:36:54 <appamatto> shouldn't it be one per block?
1541 2010-12-11 08:37:03 <appamatto> oh sorry, yes
1542 2010-12-11 08:37:06 <appamatto> that's what I meant :p
1543 2010-12-11 08:37:10 thrashaholic has joined
1544 2010-12-11 08:37:20 <[Noodles]> ^.~
1545 2010-12-11 08:37:28 <thrashaholic> whatd i miss
1546 2010-12-11 08:37:41 <[Noodles]> all the fun
1547 2010-12-11 08:37:49 <thrashaholic> noooooooooo
1548 2010-12-11 08:38:15 <thrashaholic> major developments in the past month?
1549 2010-12-11 08:38:29 <appamatto> not that I know of
1550 2010-12-11 08:38:34 <appamatto> a lot of crazy ideas, though :p
1551 2010-12-11 08:38:39 <[Noodles]> external miners
1552 2010-12-11 08:38:42 <thrashaholic> oh i have plenty of those
1553 2010-12-11 08:38:45 <thrashaholic> external miners?!
1554 2010-12-11 08:39:04 <appamatto> what are those?
1555 2010-12-11 08:39:22 <thrashaholic> the miners or the ideas, appamatto ?
1556 2010-12-11 08:39:32 <[Noodles]> yeah, like not using bitcoin/d anymore to generate, running on their own ninstead and just connect to the client
1557 2010-12-11 08:39:40 <thrashaholic> wtf
1558 2010-12-11 08:39:47 <thrashaholic> i knew this would happen
1559 2010-12-11 08:39:55 <thrashaholic> fragmentation was inevitable
1560 2010-12-11 08:40:05 <ArtForz> what fragmentation?
1561 2010-12-11 08:40:05 <[Noodles]> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.0
1562 2010-12-11 08:40:23 <[Noodles]> it's not a bad thing imo
1563 2010-12-11 08:40:32 <ArtForz> we still have one mainline bitcoin client
1564 2010-12-11 08:40:42 <thrashaholic> yeah, sure you do ArtForz  :P
1565 2010-12-11 08:40:52 <ArtForz> which now has support for slave miners thanks to getwork
1566 2010-12-11 08:40:57 <lfm> tis good, i agree
1567 2010-12-11 08:41:00 <ArtForz> and the special distributed-mining server
1568 2010-12-11 08:41:03 <thrashaholic> hmmm
1569 2010-12-11 08:41:09 <thrashaholic> we're doing distributed mining now
1570 2010-12-11 08:41:20 <[Noodles]> the client is still the same and u can still generate old-style if you choose to
1571 2010-12-11 08:41:36 <ArtForz> you know, it's like the top post in main bicoin discussion
1572 2010-12-11 08:41:51 <ArtForz> only has like 130 replies
1573 2010-12-11 08:42:12 <thrashaholic> just got internet back today, havent checked the boards yet
1574 2010-12-11 08:42:23 <thrashaholic> goddamn comcast and their schedules, i swear.
1575 2010-12-11 08:43:55 <appamatto> I think bitdns is getting the most discussion right now, due to recent world events
1576 2010-12-11 08:44:03 <ArtForz> yup
1577 2010-12-11 08:44:13 <thrashaholic> well
1578 2010-12-11 08:44:16 <thrashaholic> i'll finish it this week
1579 2010-12-11 08:44:18 <thrashaholic> i need help
1580 2010-12-11 08:44:31 <thrashaholic> i need a web dev, and a c++ dev
1581 2010-12-11 08:44:34 <thrashaholic> volunteers?
1582 2010-12-11 08:44:42 <ArtForz> well, if we can replace centralized currency with a p2p system, dns shouldnt me much harder ;)
1583 2010-12-11 08:44:55 <thrashaholic> indeed
1584 2010-12-11 08:45:23 <thrashaholic> the dns server is ready to go....if any SELinux experts want to lend some help that'd be awesome
1585 2010-12-11 08:45:33 <thrashaholic> i only need to finish the web part and the client part
1586 2010-12-11 08:45:35 <thrashaholic> for btcdns
1587 2010-12-11 08:47:03 <thrashaholic> i haven't touched it in a month, but due to it's erlangy awesomness, i be it still responds to queries
1588 2010-12-11 08:47:05 * thrashaholic checks
1589 2010-12-11 08:47:30 <thrashaholic> hah, yep.
1590 2010-12-11 08:47:40 <appamatto> ArtForz, yeah, I think bitcoin is something basic.  Like, if someone else had a real decentralized system, they could've implemented bitcoin on top of it easily, and the other way around
1591 2010-12-11 08:47:52 <appamatto> any decentralized system could be implemented on top of bitcoin
1592 2010-12-11 08:50:14 <appamatto> thrashaholic, can you describe your system?
1593 2010-12-11 08:50:21 <appamatto> how names are allocated etc.?
1594 2010-12-11 08:50:39 <ArtForz> yeah, kinda
1595 2010-12-11 08:50:43 <thrashaholic> appamatto: there's a forum post about it somewhere....names are allocated on a third-level basis
1596 2010-12-11 08:50:56 <thrashaholic> as in
1597 2010-12-11 08:51:03 <appamatto> do you mine names analagously to btc?
1598 2010-12-11 08:51:09 <thrashaholic> thrashaholic.btcdns.com, appamatto.btcdns.com, etc...
1599 2010-12-11 08:51:22 <thrashaholic> there's no mining involved
1600 2010-12-11 08:51:27 <ArtForz> you kinda need something currency-like to provide a incentive to keep the distributed POW timestamping going
1601 2010-12-11 08:51:46 <thrashaholic> whoa whoa, distributed POW timestamping
1602 2010-12-11 08:51:53 <thrashaholic> i need to read the boards apparently
1603 2010-12-11 08:52:03 <ArtForz> POW = proof-of-work
1604 2010-12-11 08:52:07 <thrashaholic> i figured
1605 2010-12-11 08:52:39 <ArtForz> thats the major innovation in bitcoin, it's a distributed timestamping service
1606 2010-12-11 08:52:50 <appamatto> well
1607 2010-12-11 08:52:57 <appamatto> I think that's debatable
1608 2010-12-11 08:53:22 <appamatto> I mean, for the above reasons
1609 2010-12-11 08:53:25 <appamatto> but more or less I agree
1610 2010-12-11 08:53:27 <thrashaholic> as long as nobody has moved into my solution space im happy lol
1611 2010-12-11 08:53:27 <ArtForz> so wheres the other distributed timestamping services?
1612 2010-12-11 08:53:37 <ArtForz> and people are noticing you can build a lot of neat things other than currencies on top of that
1613 2010-12-11 08:53:54 <appamatto> thrashaholic, there are at least 3 different dns systems based on POW being proposed
1614 2010-12-11 08:54:14 <thrashaholic> i'm missing something here
1615 2010-12-11 08:54:41 <appamatto> ArtForz, are there any other diststampers around?
1616 2010-12-11 08:54:52 <ArtForz> I don't think so
1617 2010-12-11 08:55:07 <appamatto> It's amazing, because it really is a simple idea
1618 2010-12-11 08:55:22 <ArtForz> the problem with a non-currency diststamper is... how to provide incentive for participants to keep adding to the chain
1619 2010-12-11 08:55:40 <thrashaholic> so...damn things have changed
1620 2010-12-11 08:55:46 <appamatto> ArtForz, I don't think that's really a major issue since there are other goods there
1621 2010-12-11 08:56:07 <thrashaholic> suppose i should check the boards tomorrow morning and see whats up
1622 2010-12-11 08:56:11 <appamatto> And now that btc exists it can be traded with, say, names from another system via escrows
1623 2010-12-11 08:56:32 <appamatto> thrashaholic, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.0
1624 2010-12-11 08:56:37 <appamatto> It's a mega-thread
1625 2010-12-11 08:56:55 <thrashaholic> i can't digest that at this point in time, tomorrow ill catch up
1626 2010-12-11 08:57:04 <thrashaholic> too much whiskey for the moment, lol
1627 2010-12-11 08:58:27 <thrashaholic> i suppose i will find my "aha" moment in that thread some place
1628 2010-12-11 08:58:42 <appamatto> hehe
1629 2010-12-11 08:58:44 <thrashaholic> necro will fill me in probably
1630 2010-12-11 08:59:11 <thrashaholic> a dns system is an old idea of mine, but was more for the transaction/address space
1631 2010-12-11 08:59:16 <appamatto> ArtForz, I think it's really easy to trade between distamps because they provide such high confidence
1632 2010-12-11 08:59:21 <thrashaholic> i dunno about this proof of work shit lol
1633 2010-12-11 08:59:38 <thrashaholic> see...distamps, wtf.
1634 2010-12-11 08:59:56 <ArtForz> erm, its what makes bitcoin a true p2p sytsem
1635 2010-12-11 09:00:21 <thrashaholic> so we're not on the irc centralised system anymore?
1636 2010-12-11 09:00:32 <ArtForz> we never used IRC only
1637 2010-12-11 09:00:41 <ArtForz> irc is needed for inital bootstrapping
1638 2010-12-11 09:00:45 <thrashaholic> isnt that how clients found each other?
1639 2010-12-11 09:00:49 <thrashaholic> right
1640 2010-12-11 09:00:51 <ArtForz> though we have a hardcoded fallback list of nodes if IRc isnt available
1641 2010-12-11 09:01:09 <thrashaholic> some technical change has happened that im not grasping
1642 2010-12-11 09:01:09 <ArtForz> once the client has a peer it gets other client addresses from it
1643 2010-12-11 09:01:32 <thrashaholic> right
1644 2010-12-11 09:01:43 <lfm> the irc thing never was important
1645 2010-12-11 09:02:09 <ArtForz> yeah, could have been php on some server returning a list of peer IPs as well
1646 2010-12-11 09:02:15 <thrashaholic> right
1647 2010-12-11 09:02:25 <MT`AwAy> irc servers are usually non-centralized
1648 2010-12-11 09:02:27 <ArtForz> doesnt really matter, we just need *some* way of getting a bunch of peer IPs
1649 2010-12-11 09:02:29 <MT`AwAy> so it's probably better
1650 2010-12-11 09:02:31 <thrashaholic> damnit im going to have to read a mega thread arent i
1651 2010-12-11 09:02:40 <lfm> or we could have just run on the list hardcoed seeds in the source
1652 2010-12-11 09:02:43 <MT`AwAy> (ie, an irc network has many irc nodes, when clients connect)
1653 2010-12-11 09:02:51 <MT`AwAy> [18:01:40] <lfm> or we could have just run on the list hardcoed seeds in the source <- use parameter -noirc and you're done
1654 2010-12-11 09:03:01 <ArtForz> yeah, except I think we have ONE hardcoded IRC server IP
1655 2010-12-11 09:03:09 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: if you use tor, yep
1656 2010-12-11 09:03:22 <MT`AwAy> (and only if your tor proxy runs exactly on port 9050)
1657 2010-12-11 09:03:28 <theymos> Most of the seednodes are down, so bootstrapping that way is really slow.
1658 2010-12-11 09:03:35 <thrashaholic> hmmm
1659 2010-12-11 09:03:49 <appamatto> thrashaholic, sounds like you should read the bitcoin paper
1660 2010-12-11 09:03:55 <lfm> the list in the source is so big it might be the majority of the nodes that accept incomming connections anyway
1661 2010-12-11 09:03:57 <thrashaholic> the paper?
1662 2010-12-11 09:04:00 <MT`AwAy> theymos: we could replace seednodes with the nodes from http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
1663 2010-12-11 09:04:00 <appamatto> about proof of work, etc.
1664 2010-12-11 09:04:10 <thrashaholic> the paper has been updated?
1665 2010-12-11 09:04:12 <appamatto> yeah, it's a paper Satoshi wrote about bitcoin
1666 2010-12-11 09:04:18 <appamatto> no, same old one
1667 2010-12-11 09:04:19 <thrashaholic> or is this a new paper
1668 2010-12-11 09:04:23 <thrashaholic> oh i see
1669 2010-12-11 09:04:51 <lfm> your memory of it may be slightly blurred atm
1670 2010-12-11 09:05:08 <theymos> MT`AwAy: That would be nice. It looks like the seednodes were chosen basically at random several months ago, and are now never updated.
1671 2010-12-11 09:05:31 <MT`AwAy> theymos: we need to ask someone who has access to the repo
1672 2010-12-11 09:05:50 <thrashaholic> lfm: likely, jameson does have that effect :)
1673 2010-12-11 09:06:02 <lfm> anyone could make an updated list for them
1674 2010-12-11 09:06:21 <theymos> Last time I checked 38 out of 230 seednodes were online.
1675 2010-12-11 09:06:47 <MT`AwAy> we could first start by purging the invalid nodes from the list (check automatically every hour or so, if offlien for 24 hours, remove)
1676 2010-12-11 09:07:20 <lfm> theymos: i would expect it to vary a lot
1677 2010-12-11 09:07:31 <thrashaholic> fuck
1678 2010-12-11 09:07:38 <MT`AwAy> some ips will never be up again (dynamic ip)
1679 2010-12-11 09:07:58 <ArtForz> yep
1680 2010-12-11 09:07:59 <thrashaholic> i see OTC has a web of trust going now
1681 2010-12-11 09:08:04 <lfm> MT`AwAy: yes, that would be normal
1682 2010-12-11 09:08:05 <thrashaholic> that's good
1683 2010-12-11 09:08:12 <MT`AwAy> (btw if anyone wants a C implementation of btcaddr_decode() / btcaddr_encode() I have one)
1684 2010-12-11 09:08:41 <thrashaholic> did gavin release a bunch of python shit yet?
1685 2010-12-11 09:08:50 <thrashaholic> what was his "secret" project ?
1686 2010-12-11 09:09:28 <lfm> theshwhich one?
1687 2010-12-11 09:09:41 <theymos> I just rechecked the seednodes: 22 up.
1688 2010-12-11 09:09:49 <thrashaholic> has he released more than one?!
1689 2010-12-11 09:10:05 <thrashaholic> there was one, 'bout end of october-ish
1690 2010-12-11 09:10:13 <thrashaholic> i think it turned out to be escrow
1691 2010-12-11 09:10:18 <lfm> theymos: how much overlap between the 18 and the 22?
1692 2010-12-11 09:10:19 <thrashaholic> but im not sure
1693 2010-12-11 09:10:35 <lfm> theymos: how much overlap between the 38 and the 22?
1694 2010-12-11 09:11:41 <lfm> thrashaholic: no escrow yet afaik but he released an "accounts" change/upgrade to the address lables
1695 2010-12-11 09:12:00 <thrashaholic> lfm: ok...that was planned for
1696 2010-12-11 09:12:11 <thrashaholic> as long as i still have a btcdns market! lol
1697 2010-12-11 09:12:16 <theymos> lfm: All seednodes online now were online then (early October).
1698 2010-12-11 09:12:55 <thrashaholic> when that's done...dopewars btc style.
1699 2010-12-11 09:13:11 <lfm> theymos: no new ones! that is not encouraging
1700 2010-12-11 09:13:38 <theymos> Right; no new ones. A lot of them are owned by link2voip, too.
1701 2010-12-11 09:14:36 <theymos> Even bitcoin.org is no longer acting as a seednode.
1702 2010-12-11 09:14:45 <lfm> theymos: how hard would it be to look thru the irc or the addr db for new nodes accepting incoming connects
1703 2010-12-11 09:15:17 <theymos> Not very. Bitcointools has an option to get addresses and their "last seen" times.
1704 2010-12-11 09:15:38 tailr is now known as cridasmani
1705 2010-12-11 09:16:29 <theymos> That's probably what Satoshi did originally. We don't need a ton of seednodes -- we just need to remove the dead ones.
1706 2010-12-11 09:21:07 <doublec> isn't this the escrow project: https://clearcoin.appspot.com/
1707 2010-12-11 09:21:26 <appamatto> I still don't see the point of that escrow btw
1708 2010-12-11 09:21:30 <doublec> By gavin
1709 2010-12-11 09:21:53 <thrashaholic> i see
1710 2010-12-11 09:22:22 <thrashaholic> appamatto: you weren't here, i don't think, when scammers shut mtgox down
1711 2010-12-11 09:22:33 <thrashaholic> escrow was the answer to that problem
1712 2010-12-11 09:23:07 <appamatto> thrashaholic, the escrow isn't fair unless there are verifiable triggers involved
1713 2010-12-11 09:23:30 <thrashaholic> i agree, i have plans for an escrow service myself one day
1714 2010-12-11 09:23:31 <appamatto> AFAIK gavin's escrow involves the owner deciding whether or not to release the funds unilaterally
1715 2010-12-11 09:23:49 <thrashaholic> with a verified thrid party acting as escrow/mediator
1716 2010-12-11 09:24:08 <appamatto> So far I think the only suitable escrows have been the betting ones, like what the difficulty will be by block X
1717 2010-12-11 09:24:12 TheAncientGoat_ has joined
1718 2010-12-11 09:24:22 <appamatto> since those events are objective
1719 2010-12-11 09:24:27 <doublec> the seller seems to have all the advantages in that escrow
1720 2010-12-11 09:24:27 <thrashaholic> omg we have that now? that's rad.
1721 2010-12-11 09:24:40 <doublec> they can receive the goods, and not release the funds.
1722 2010-12-11 09:24:51 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1723 2010-12-11 09:25:06 <thrashaholic> is otc not working on escrow these days? i know at first it was
1724 2010-12-11 09:25:08 <doublec> sorry, the buyer not the seller
1725 2010-12-11 09:25:29 <thrashaholic> with some agreed upon third party acting as escrow
1726 2010-12-11 09:25:32 <appamatto> otc is web of trust
1727 2010-12-11 09:25:46 <thrashaholic> hehe that was my idea ;)
1728 2010-12-11 09:26:05 <thrashaholic> gpg web of trust solves most of those problems for us already
1729 2010-12-11 09:27:17 genjix has joined
1730 2010-12-11 09:27:20 <genjix> hey
1731 2010-12-11 09:27:25 <genjix> is there a euro exchange?
1732 2010-12-11 09:27:33 <thrashaholic> bitcoin-otc
1733 2010-12-11 09:27:41 <thrashaholic> #bitcoin-otc rather
1734 2010-12-11 09:27:41 <genjix> no i mean an exchange
1735 2010-12-11 09:27:46 <thrashaholic> oh i see
1736 2010-12-11 09:28:04 <thrashaholic> i mean, you can exchange euro->btc and the other way 'round there
1737 2010-12-11 09:28:15 <genjix> yeah (i have an order on bitcoin-otc)
1738 2010-12-11 09:28:28 <thrashaholic> that's likely as good as it's going to get
1739 2010-12-11 09:28:28 <ArtForz> there used to be bitcoinexchange
1740 2010-12-11 09:28:41 <genjix> what happened to it?
1741 2010-12-11 09:28:45 <genjix> its down now.
1742 2010-12-11 09:28:52 cridasmani is now known as cridasmanipatfu
1743 2010-12-11 09:28:57 <ArtForz> no clue, sit down for maintenance for ... quite a while
1744 2010-12-11 09:29:20 <ArtForz> nowadays I usually trade on mtgox and use ecardone for LR$<->EUR wire
1745 2010-12-11 09:29:36 <genjix> LR$ has a high fee though, no?
1746 2010-12-11 09:29:51 <ArtForz> 1%
1747 2010-12-11 09:29:56 <genjix> ah ok
1748 2010-12-11 09:30:08 <ArtForz> and ecardone currently takes 0.9% for conversion
1749 2010-12-11 09:30:17 <genjix> thanks
1750 2010-12-11 09:30:21 <ArtForz> plus mtgox adds another %
1751 2010-12-11 09:30:22 <lfm> the worst fees I found were for cashing out service from LR to $
1752 2010-12-11 09:31:06 <thrashaholic> ArtForz: any new badass hardware in your collection?
1753 2010-12-11 09:31:10 cridasmanipatfu is now known as tailr
1754 2010-12-11 09:31:13 <ArtForz> fes on ecardone seem to change according to supply/demand and exchange rates
1755 2010-12-11 09:31:18 <thrashaholic> using the PS3 to mine yet? :P
1756 2010-12-11 09:31:33 <ArtForz> PS3 = horribly inefficient
1757 2010-12-11 09:31:38 <lfm> ps3 fail!
1758 2010-12-11 09:31:43 <ArtForz> running 24 HD5970s
1759 2010-12-11 09:31:45 <thrashaholic> really? i'd figure the cell would be good for it
1760 2010-12-11 09:31:45 <finnomenon> fail fail!
1761 2010-12-11 09:31:48 <appamatto> thrashaholic, you're like the guy who got thawed out of ice in that movie
1762 2010-12-11 09:31:50 <thrashaholic> 24?!
1763 2010-12-11 09:32:01 <thrashaholic> encino man
1764 2010-12-11 09:32:05 <appamatto> hehe
1765 2010-12-11 09:32:13 <ArtForz> soon 36, but the damn shipping date gets bumped back
1766 2010-12-11 09:32:13 <lfm> thrashaholic: you cant even run linux on the ps3 legally any more
1767 2010-12-11 09:32:25 <thrashaholic> lol, legally
1768 2010-12-11 09:32:33 <thrashaholic> let them bust me
1769 2010-12-11 09:32:40 <thrashaholic> (says the agorist)
1770 2010-12-11 09:33:12 <lfm> claustrophobe is scared of jail here
1771 2010-12-11 09:33:40 <lfm> ps3 is slow and power hungry anyway
1772 2010-12-11 09:33:46 <thrashaholic> figures
1773 2010-12-11 09:33:57 <thrashaholic> i dont know much about that level of hardware to be honest
1774 2010-12-11 09:34:03 <thrashaholic> im just a simple binary jockey
1775 2010-12-11 09:34:06 * thrashaholic sniffles
1776 2010-12-11 09:35:05 <thrashaholic> ArtForz: are those in seperate boxes, or all running on one mainboard?
1777 2010-12-11 09:35:22 <thrashaholic> 24 seems like you'd need a few mainboards
1778 2010-12-11 09:35:35 <thrashaholic> and lots and lots of fans!
1779 2010-12-11 09:35:38 <ArtForz> theres 20 right here: http://bayimg.com/eABDfaAdd
1780 2010-12-11 09:35:59 <ArtForz> each box has 3 scythe ultra kaze 120x38mm fans
1781 2010-12-11 09:36:15 <thrashaholic> i knew i shouldve gotten an ee instead
1782 2010-12-11 09:36:26 <ArtForz> internal divider beween GPU and CPU/PSU section
1783 2010-12-11 09:37:23 <thrashaholic> nice
1784 2010-12-11 09:37:52 <ArtForz> my next bunch of machines will be different again
1785 2010-12-11 09:37:56 <thrashaholic> when you switch to mineral oil let me know lol
1786 2010-12-11 09:38:27 <ArtForz> cheap mainboards and 2 5970/box
1787 2010-12-11 09:38:37 <thrashaholic> my next uber-server i'm thinking of going that route, since i will have probably 3 or 4 video cards in it
1788 2010-12-11 09:38:59 <lfm> server?
1789 2010-12-11 09:39:04 <ArtForz> fits nicely in a 3U
1790 2010-12-11 09:39:48 <thrashaholic> lfm: yeah, my home server, i plan on running a solaris dom0 with zfs, and then some windows dom's to play games with IOMMU passthru
1791 2010-12-11 09:40:07 <thrashaholic> and then the "female" terminal for the gf hehe
1792 2010-12-11 09:40:30 <thrashaholic> probably 3 video cards going to different displays
1793 2010-12-11 09:40:44 <lfm> well solaris box would not seem to have much use for gpus
1794 2010-12-11 09:40:44 <thrashaholic> in a big tupperware container full of mineral oil
1795 2010-12-11 09:41:05 <thrashaholic> the dom0 would be solaris just for zfs, unless btrfs is done before then
1796 2010-12-11 09:41:12 <thrashaholic> if so, it'll be a linux dom0
1797 2010-12-11 09:41:22 <ArtForz> btw, any clue why distributed mining servers need that much CPU?
1798 2010-12-11 09:41:44 <lfm> seems like the gpus would be of more use on the games clients
1799 2010-12-11 09:41:52 <thrashaholic> well yes
1800 2010-12-11 09:41:52 <ArtForz> err, pooled mining servers
1801 2010-12-11 09:42:07 <thrashaholic> one serious gpu for windows games (civ5) and the others for dedicated dispays
1802 2010-12-11 09:42:31 <ArtForz> doublecs server hit 100% CPU with like 100 clients and 100Mh/s
1803 2010-12-11 09:42:34 <thrashaholic> i want one of those 4 dvi output ones for my workstation
1804 2010-12-11 09:42:43 <lfm> ArtForz: verifying the honesty of the clients|?
1805 2010-12-11 09:42:57 <thrashaholic> then the third to push around the house to various terminals
1806 2010-12-11 09:43:40 <ArtForz> hrrrm, double-checking hashes... wouldnt a GPU help a LOT there?
1807 2010-12-11 09:44:08 <thrashaholic> it should
1808 2010-12-11 09:44:26 <lfm> anyone know if mtgox charts are going to be up to date soon?
1809 2010-12-11 09:48:07 * thrashaholic goes to pass out with his bottle of jameson
1810 2010-12-11 09:48:19 <thrashaholic> toodles gents.
1811 2010-12-11 09:48:30 <lfm> buy
1812 2010-12-11 09:48:34 <lfm> bye
1813 2010-12-11 09:48:40 <thrashaholic> sell!
1814 2010-12-11 09:48:59 <doublec> ArtForz, I think it's just the way the server is written
1815 2010-12-11 09:49:10 <doublec> It does a lot of looping over processing data for each connected client
1816 2010-12-11 09:49:16 <doublec> and verifies hashes
1817 2010-12-11 09:49:50 <doublec> It's currently sitting about 60% usage with 100 clients
1818 2010-12-11 09:49:56 <doublec> using the latest server code
1819 2010-12-11 09:50:16 <doublec> I wouldn't be surprised if it's busy looping at times
1820 2010-12-11 09:50:36 <ArtForz> sounds like something is scaling O(n**2)
1821 2010-12-11 09:50:36 <lfm> amateure programmers!
1822 2010-12-11 09:50:40 <doublec> yes
1823 2010-12-11 09:52:13 <ArtForz> better than armature programmers
1824 2010-12-11 09:55:14 <lfm> I guess armature programmers do nothing but spin
1825 2010-12-11 09:55:43 <ArtForz> if a external field is applied, yes ;)
1826 2010-12-11 09:56:10 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1827 2010-12-11 10:00:50 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
1828 2010-12-11 10:00:56 <MT`AwAy> stupid Qt, they put the code to locate application data path in QtGui
1829 2010-12-11 10:01:00 darrob has joined
1830 2010-12-11 10:06:47 popey has joined
1831 2010-12-11 10:11:21 MT`AwAy is now known as MagicalTux
1832 2010-12-11 10:11:38 MagicalTux is now known as MT`AwAy
1833 2010-12-11 10:38:07 noagendamarket has joined
1834 2010-12-11 10:48:17 slush_cz1 has left ()
1835 2010-12-11 11:07:59 <joe_1> pcworld.com wrote an article in support of bitcoin. is this big?
1836 2010-12-11 11:08:13 <Diablo-D3> its probably a bad thing
1837 2010-12-11 11:09:42 <ArtForz> yea
1838 2010-12-11 11:10:21 <ArtForz> pcworld is always wrong, everyone knows that ;)
1839 2010-12-11 11:15:34 <genjix> wow really?
1840 2010-12-11 11:15:37 <genjix> joe_1: link plz
1841 2010-12-11 11:16:01 <ArtForz> dude, it's like the 4th article on their front page
1842 2010-12-11 11:16:47 <ArtForz> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/213230/could_the_wikileaks_scandal_lead_to_new_virtual_currency.html
1843 2010-12-11 11:17:08 <genjix> thanks. that's incredible!
1844 2010-12-11 11:18:17 <lfm> "just another hacker's daydream" -- hehe I like it
1845 2010-12-11 11:18:19 <genjix> holy shit
1846 2010-12-11 11:18:21 <Diablo-D3> yeah, this is bad
1847 2010-12-11 11:18:37 <genjix> elaborate if cereus
1848 2010-12-11 11:18:46 <genjix> if u iz serious
1849 2010-12-11 11:18:48 <Diablo-D3> itym sirius
1850 2010-12-11 11:19:08 <genjix> cereuslee?
1851 2010-12-11 11:19:11 <ArtForz> cereals?
1852 2010-12-11 11:19:24 <Diablo-D3> om nom nom nom
1853 2010-12-11 11:19:47 <Diablo-D3> seriously though, the last thing we need is the windows using republican/tea party crowd to know about bitcoin
1854 2010-12-11 11:20:24 <ArtForz> shrug
1855 2010-12-11 11:20:25 <genjix> anyone want to sell me bitcoins?
1856 2010-12-11 11:20:31 <genjix> for pokerstars?
1857 2010-12-11 11:21:08 <lfm> how many you want?
1858 2010-12-11 11:21:13 <genjix> $500
1859 2010-12-11 11:21:17 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1860 2010-12-11 11:21:51 <lfm> I only have 350BTC atm
1861 2010-12-11 11:22:04 <genjix> I'll buy that off you @ 0.22
1862 2010-12-11 11:22:17 <genjix> for $77
1863 2010-12-11 11:23:15 <ArtForz> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-directx-11-performance,2793-3.html
1864 2010-12-11 11:23:25 <lfm> I want 0.25 per
1865 2010-12-11 11:23:27 <Diablo-D3> but wow is a dx9 game
1866 2010-12-11 11:23:30 <ArtForz> wow, 5970 fails HARD
1867 2010-12-11 11:23:31 <genjix> lfm: deal.
1868 2010-12-11 11:23:35 darrob has joined
1869 2010-12-11 11:23:35 neolive has joined
1870 2010-12-11 11:23:57 <ArtForz> 20% slower than a 5850? srsly?
1871 2010-12-11 11:23:58 <genjix> lfm: wait you mean 0.2 surely?
1872 2010-12-11 11:24:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I suspect the driver fucked something up
1873 2010-12-11 11:24:39 <Diablo-D3> since it has a wow specific profile
1874 2010-12-11 11:25:02 <ArtForz> half a 5970 should be 10% faster than 5850
1875 2010-12-11 11:25:16 <ArtForz> yeah, my guess if fucked xfire profile
1876 2010-12-11 11:25:16 <Diablo-D3> but also
1877 2010-12-11 11:25:18 <Diablo-D3> its toms hardware
1878 2010-12-11 11:25:23 <Diablo-D3> they're morons
1879 2010-12-11 11:25:34 <lfm> genjix: selling 350 BTC for $0.25 US each?
1880 2010-12-11 11:25:50 <genjix> ok
1881 2010-12-11 11:25:50 <ArtForz> ahh, I see it
1882 2010-12-11 11:25:55 <ArtForz> "catalyst 10.10"
1883 2010-12-11 11:26:04 <genjix> lfm: what's your stars nickname?
1884 2010-12-11 11:26:05 <ArtForz> 10.10 xfire was broken
1885 2010-12-11 11:26:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: FAIL
1886 2010-12-11 11:26:20 <Diablo-D3> as usual tomshardware fucks it up
1887 2010-12-11 11:26:40 <ArtForz> 10.10 == rushed release for 68xx
1888 2010-12-11 11:27:15 <ArtForz> 10.10b..d "fixed showstopper bug"
1889 2010-12-11 11:27:31 <ArtForz> 10.10e == "I hope we got all by now"
1890 2010-12-11 11:27:44 <Diablo-D3> 10.11 == lets do the time warp agaaaaaaaaain
1891 2010-12-11 11:27:54 <ArtForz> 10.10y "crap, we're running out of alphabet"
1892 2010-12-11 11:28:02 neolive_ has joined
1893 2010-12-11 11:28:15 <ArtForz> yep
1894 2010-12-11 11:28:37 <ArtForz> ATIs driver release system is a bit... weird
1895 2010-12-11 11:29:54 <ArtForz> release pipeline is like 3 months, so hotfixes take about 2 more months to end up in main driver
1896 2010-12-11 11:30:03 neolive has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1897 2010-12-11 11:30:11 neolive_ is now known as neolive
1898 2010-12-11 11:30:29 <genjix> nanotube or anyone else: can you trade PokerStars for mtgox $?
1899 2010-12-11 11:30:44 <genjix> or PokerStars for BTC :)
1900 2010-12-11 11:31:28 <ArtForz> btw seriously, how can someone not notice something is wrong when a dual GPU card ends up like 30% slower than a single chip?
1901 2010-12-11 11:32:12 <ArtForz> oh, and they tested in windowed mode, which breaks xfire AND sli
1902 2010-12-11 11:36:00 <ArtForz> = probably not malice, just a shitload of fucking incompetence
1903 2010-12-11 11:36:38 duck1123 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1904 2010-12-11 11:37:07 neolive has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1905 2010-12-11 11:38:55 neolive has joined
1906 2010-12-11 11:41:25 <genjix> when will bitcoins hit 21 million?
1907 2010-12-11 11:41:32 <genjix> im editing the WP article so be accurate
1908 2010-12-11 11:41:52 <ArtForz> lets see
1909 2010-12-11 11:42:45 <ArtForz> 33 halvings at 210000 blocks/halving
1910 2010-12-11 11:43:26 <ArtForz> and afair we'll never reach 21M
1911 2010-12-11 11:43:50 <genjix> yep but as a practical time series reaching say 20M
1912 2010-12-11 11:44:59 neolive has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1913 2010-12-11 11:45:40 <ArtForz> total will be 20999999.9769
1914 2010-12-11 11:46:06 <ArtForz> reached at block 6930000
1915 2010-12-11 11:46:19 <genjix> so fucking frustratingknskljsdnkdsnsd
1916 2010-12-11 11:46:30 <ArtForz> sec
1917 2010-12-11 11:46:40 <ArtForz> calcing for 20M
1918 2010-12-11 11:46:46 <genjix> i just made a huge edit and wikipedia lost them because someone else was editing it
1919 2010-12-11 11:47:45 <genjix> ok good it didn't.
1920 2010-12-11 11:47:48 <lfm> 1/2 of it by 2013, 3/4 of it by 2017 and so on every 4 years
1921 2010-12-11 11:48:09 <ArtForz> > 20M at block 940001
1922 2010-12-11 11:48:14 <joe_1> did wikipedia put the article back on, those fucking assholes?
1923 2010-12-11 11:49:00 <ArtForz> we're at ~block 97000
1924 2010-12-11 11:49:16 <ArtForz> so thats another 5854 days nominal
1925 2010-12-11 11:49:19 <joe_1> sorry for language i really hate wikipedia
1926 2010-12-11 11:49:31 <ArtForz> or... pretty exactly in 16 years
1927 2010-12-11 11:50:35 <ArtForz> and 21M in very close to 130 years nominal
1928 2010-12-11 11:52:09 <joe_1> artforz: what will be total expansion of money supply in 2011, %?
1929 2010-12-11 11:52:11 Granttt has joined
1930 2010-12-11 11:52:22 <genjix> ok so let's say 2030?
1931 2010-12-11 11:52:51 <genjix> The total supply of bitcoins tends to 21 million BTC over time. As it approaches that mark ***after 2030***
1932 2010-12-11 11:52:57 doahfo has joined
1933 2010-12-11 11:52:59 <genjix> correct?
1934 2010-12-11 11:53:35 <ArtForz> well, LAST microcent should be minted about 2140
1935 2010-12-11 11:54:07 <genjix> ok I'll be more specific
1936 2010-12-11 11:54:17 <joe_1> By 2030, nearly all of the coins will have been generated, and additional generation will be negligible until 2140 when the last bitcoin is made.
1937 2010-12-11 11:54:39 <ArtForz> not quite, but closer
1938 2010-12-11 11:54:53 <ArtForz> joe_1: no clue... lets see
1939 2010-12-11 11:55:30 Grantttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1940 2010-12-11 11:55:44 <ArtForz> we only have like 2880 blocks left in 2010
1941 2010-12-11 11:56:28 <ArtForz> = we wont hit 210000 till at least late 2012
1942 2010-12-11 11:57:08 <lfm> by 2061 the block rewards will be l;ess than 0.01 BTC
1943 2010-12-11 11:57:14 <ArtForz> = 2011 a total of 2.63M btc will be minted
1944 2010-12-11 11:57:28 <ArtForz> +- a bit because we're not doing ecatly 10 min/block
1945 2010-12-11 11:58:05 <ArtForz> if hashrate keeps growing it might be a quite bit more
1946 2010-12-11 11:58:18 <joe_1> wow, about a 54% increase
1947 2010-12-11 11:58:25 <ArtForz> yep
1948 2010-12-11 11:58:38 <lfm> itd be sooner if it keeps growing wouldnt it?
1949 2010-12-11 11:58:51 <ArtForz> yea
1950 2010-12-11 11:59:44 <joe_1> 35% in 2012
1951 2010-12-11 11:59:48 <ArtForz> if hashrate keeps growing exponentially avg time/block will stay at (10 min / hashrate_growth_factor)
1952 2010-12-11 11:59:58 <ArtForz> and then a lot less in 2013
1953 2010-12-11 12:00:24 <ArtForz> block 210000 should be quite close to end of 2012
1954 2010-12-11 12:01:56 <ArtForz> = about 12.5% in 2013
1955 2010-12-11 12:02:33 <genjix> where is that graph of total bitcoin supply I saw?
1956 2010-12-11 12:02:38 <genjix> would be good for the WP article
1957 2010-12-11 12:03:33 <MT`AwAy> genjix: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=bitcoins&media=total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png this?
1958 2010-12-11 12:03:41 <genjix> thanks
1959 2010-12-11 12:03:48 <genjix> yes
1960 2010-12-11 12:04:03 <MT`AwAy> :p
1961 2010-12-11 12:06:01 <MT`AwAy> oh
1962 2010-12-11 12:06:07 <genjix> damn what license is that?
1963 2010-12-11 12:06:07 <MT`AwAy> I finally understand bitcoin's internal key format
1964 2010-12-11 12:06:21 <MT`AwAy> genjix: what license of what?
1965 2010-12-11 12:06:25 <genjix> that image
1966 2010-12-11 12:06:28 <joe_1> genjix: what wicipedia article were you referring to before? the article for bitcoin?
1967 2010-12-11 12:06:33 <genjix> yep
1968 2010-12-11 12:06:46 duck1123 has joined
1969 2010-12-11 12:06:49 <MT`AwAy> genjix: if nothing is written, it's "all rights reserved"
1970 2010-12-11 12:06:58 <joe_1> where is it i cant find it. they took it down
1971 2010-12-11 12:07:12 <genjix> joe_1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Incubator/Bitcoin
1972 2010-12-11 12:07:17 <genjix> dont edit it cos of conflicts
1973 2010-12-11 12:07:22 <genjix> im making some changes.
1974 2010-12-11 12:07:34 mtgox has joined
1975 2010-12-11 12:07:35 <MT`AwAy> looks like the image was added by theymos
1976 2010-12-11 12:07:49 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=bitcoins&media=graph_total_coins_over_time.png <- the image by theymos
1977 2010-12-11 12:08:10 <MT`AwAy> and the new one is by insti
1978 2010-12-11 12:08:14 <joe_1> i won't edit it
1979 2010-12-11 12:08:54 <joe_1> i think it's time to recreate the article in the main space.
1980 2010-12-11 12:09:08 darrob has quit (Quit: quit)
1981 2010-12-11 12:09:36 <ArtForz> lol
1982 2010-12-11 12:09:45 <ArtForz> new funny catalyst bug
1983 2010-12-11 12:09:57 <ArtForz> enable morphological AA on 68xx
1984 2010-12-11 12:10:05 <ArtForz> start game in windowed mode on win7
1985 2010-12-11 12:10:15 <Insti> you're welcome to use my graph for whatever you like.
1986 2010-12-11 12:10:17 <ArtForz> look at your antialiased desktop
1987 2010-12-11 12:11:07 <MT`AwAy> genjix: guess you got usage rights now :p
1988 2010-12-11 12:11:17 <ArtForz> yeah, it antialiases ... everything
1989 2010-12-11 12:11:19 <genjix> Insti: i put it under GFDL :p
1990 2010-12-11 12:11:31 <Insti> cool
1991 2010-12-11 12:12:19 <genjix> tbh the state of writing prior to me fixing it was pretty atrocious :p
1992 2010-12-11 12:12:36 <ArtForz> ahhh... the Go Fuck a Donkey License *ducks*
1993 2010-12-11 12:14:04 <joe_1> mtgox: how is margin trading coming along
1994 2010-12-11 12:14:36 <ArtForz> imo margin trading with the small current market is a bad idea
1995 2010-12-11 12:17:06 cdecker has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1996 2010-12-11 12:17:27 cdecker has joined
1997 2010-12-11 12:18:10 <joe_1> i think it could work, but with a high margin requirement for now while the market is volatile
1998 2010-12-11 12:23:37 <genjix> can someone give me a bitcoin screenshot for the WP article under the GFDL?
1999 2010-12-11 12:23:54 <genjix> i would use bitcoin.org homepage... but not sure what permissions have :(
2000 2010-12-11 12:24:00 <genjix> (not that i care but WP does)
2001 2010-12-11 12:24:26 <genjix> i cant run bitcoin client fyi
2002 2010-12-11 12:24:31 <genjix> only bitcoind
2003 2010-12-11 12:25:52 <joe_1> why not use the screenshot on the homepage? just lie on wikipedia and say you have permission to use it.
2004 2010-12-11 12:26:21 darrob has joined
2005 2010-12-11 12:26:27 <lfm> joe_1: thats a good way to mess everything up
2006 2010-12-11 12:26:46 <Insti> did wikipedia decide we were suddenly notable
2007 2010-12-11 12:26:52 <nathan7> lfm: Remind me of that when I need a way to mess everything up
2008 2010-12-11 12:27:08 doahfo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2009 2010-12-11 12:27:12 <joe_1> i guess i dont really understand- how could they possibly find out that he did not have permission? the bitcoin.org owner would have to file a report with wikipedia, which would never happen.??
2010 2010-12-11 12:27:35 <ArtForz> just get someone to do a screenshot
2011 2010-12-11 12:27:38 <genjix> is it worth risking when one of you could just hit printscreen?
2012 2010-12-11 12:27:49 <joe_1> i dont have windows 7
2013 2010-12-11 12:27:53 <ArtForz> preferably a someone with bitcoin on windows
2014 2010-12-11 12:27:59 <joe_1> better to use the windows 7 screenshot on bitcoin.org
2015 2010-12-11 12:28:58 <johndrinkwater> genjix, if you dont mind waiting, I just opened a virgin bitcoin client
2016 2010-12-11 12:29:06 <genjix> thanks
2017 2010-12-11 12:29:12 <ArtForz> because it sure as hell looks uglier in linux
2018 2010-12-11 12:29:20 <lfm> nothing wrong with linux screen captures
2019 2010-12-11 12:29:21 <genjix> yep fugly as hell
2020 2010-12-11 12:29:30 <genjix> well my gtk has no theming
2021 2010-12-11 12:29:33 <johndrinkwater> oh ok, i’m out then :P
2022 2010-12-11 12:29:43 <ArtForz> ditto
2023 2010-12-11 12:29:44 <genjix> johndrinkwater: no if it looks ok for you then pelase do
2024 2010-12-11 12:29:53 <genjix> better than nothing
2025 2010-12-11 12:30:31 <lfm> its not a page for art critics
2026 2010-12-11 12:32:36 <joe_1> the deletionists will get ideas if they see a linux screenshot. they'll think it's marginal software, not popular enough for the encyclopedia.
2027 2010-12-11 12:33:25 <lfm> just capture the window contents then, annonymous OS
2028 2010-12-11 12:33:29 <ArtForz> btw, arent the windows 7 window decorations trademarked?
2029 2010-12-11 12:34:09 <genjix> i might snip a large portion of that technical intro
2030 2010-12-11 12:34:15 <genjix> seems excessive.
2031 2010-12-11 12:34:17 <genjix> thoughts?
2032 2010-12-11 12:34:21 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Incubator/Bitcoin
2033 2010-12-11 12:34:36 <genjix> and replace that pic with a bitcoin screenshot
2034 2010-12-11 12:34:52 <ArtForz> hash rtee picture description is wrong
2035 2010-12-11 12:35:05 <ArtForz> we dont have a ever-growing hash tree
2036 2010-12-11 12:35:19 <genjix> ok
2037 2010-12-11 12:35:22 <joe_1> move technical stuff down?
2038 2010-12-11 12:35:58 <ArtForz> and we dont use a ahsh tree for data blocks at all
2039 2010-12-11 12:37:23 <ArtForz> and large parts of that techincal description are simply wrong
2040 2010-12-11 12:40:07 <ArtForz> if you have to dumb down a technical description so far it's flat out wrong, better leave it out or just cite it from a very short note
2041 2010-12-11 12:40:25 <Diablo-D3> [07:39:06] <ArtForz> if you have to dumb down a technical description so far it's flat out wrong,
2042 2010-12-11 12:40:31 <Diablo-D3> you'll get hired by fox news
2043 2010-12-11 12:40:43 <genjix> ArtForz: i haven't touched it.
2044 2010-12-11 12:40:48 <ArtForz> just saying
2045 2010-12-11 12:41:07 <genjix> i want to remove large portions of it because it's too dense/geeky
2046 2010-12-11 12:41:15 <genjix>  /technical
2047 2010-12-11 12:41:28 <genjix> and now you say it's wrong too. So I'll try to correct it.
2048 2010-12-11 12:41:29 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin? technical? in my internets?
2049 2010-12-11 12:42:03 <ArtForz> another weird phrase
2050 2010-12-11 12:42:07 <ArtForz> This method of coin creation "was designed to be a digital analogue to gold and silver mining"[9]
2051 2010-12-11 12:42:14 * Kiba wake up
2052 2010-12-11 12:42:25 <Diablo-D3> no it wasnt
2053 2010-12-11 12:42:32 <Diablo-D3> infact the term mining in this context doesnt even make sense
2054 2010-12-11 12:42:41 <ArtForz> Thomas Luongo says it was
2055 2010-12-11 12:42:53 <Diablo-D3> thats bullshit then
2056 2010-12-11 12:42:53 <ArtForz> I dont think any bitcoin dev ever claimed this
2057 2010-12-11 12:43:03 <Diablo-D3> because we're really MINTING bitcoins
2058 2010-12-11 12:43:24 <Diablo-D3> mining works because of completely unrelated stuff in the context of the computer industry
2059 2010-12-11 12:43:26 <joe_1> yeah, the technical part doesn't have to be completely right, it should look interesting. that's the main thing. And the tree graph on the right looks really good. So no matter what the text says, at least leave that in, I think.
2060 2010-12-11 12:43:47 <ArtForz> depends? are hashes created or found? *g*
2061 2010-12-11 12:44:01 <ArtForz> yes, the picutre looks somewhat nice
2062 2010-12-11 12:44:05 <genjix> ok if you refresh the page, I've added a strikethrough to the first sentence. Could one of you go through and strike out everything you think is incorrect?
2063 2010-12-11 12:44:18 <ArtForz> but imo a technically more correct depiction of the block chain would look better
2064 2010-12-11 12:44:53 <genjix> if I cut out all the bad and reword it to be nice, then later people can add more technical/correct info back in.
2065 2010-12-11 12:45:35 <lfm> you want my graph of hash rate? www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
2066 2010-12-11 12:46:31 <genjix> that just shows the rate of mining, no?
2067 2010-12-11 12:46:34 <ArtForz> yep
2068 2010-12-11 12:46:41 <ArtForz> that graph is a tad big ...
2069 2010-12-11 12:47:33 * MT`AwAy just noticed that the hex dump function was reversing the two halves of a byte
2070 2010-12-11 12:47:41 <lfm> kinda indicates overall growth of bitcoin partisipation I think
2071 2010-12-11 12:47:51 <ArtForz> MT`AwAy: nibbles
2072 2010-12-11 12:48:23 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I was trying to fix my ECC hash functions and didn't understand why the output was wrong
2073 2010-12-11 12:48:41 <ArtForz> ecc hash function?
2074 2010-12-11 12:49:42 <MT`AwAy> ecc function
2075 2010-12-11 12:49:43 <MT`AwAy> remove hash
2076 2010-12-11 12:49:47 <MT`AwAy> been doing too much code today
2077 2010-12-11 12:49:52 <ArtForz> ahhh... yeah, makes more sense
2078 2010-12-11 12:50:24 <MT`AwAy> http://pastebin.com/iu8sZMMq <- that's a bitcoin address (private side)
2079 2010-12-11 12:50:46 <ArtForz> gesundheit
2080 2010-12-11 12:51:45 <lfm> private key? are you giving something away?
2081 2010-12-11 12:51:55 <MT`AwAy> lfm: there's no coins on this address ;)
2082 2010-12-11 12:52:27 <ArtForz> isn't the private key of a ECDSA keypair should just a integer?
2083 2010-12-11 12:52:35 <ArtForz> -should
2084 2010-12-11 12:52:57 altamic has joined
2085 2010-12-11 12:52:57 <lfm> lots of ways to encode/display an integer
2086 2010-12-11 12:53:02 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: yep, but bitcoin stores it in der format, where it also includes curve parameters & public key
2087 2010-12-11 12:53:17 <ArtForz> kinda wasteful
2088 2010-12-11 12:53:21 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: try decoding that with openssl (openssl ec -text)
2089 2010-12-11 12:53:34 <MT`AwAy> well
2090 2010-12-11 12:53:36 <MT`AwAy> http://pastebin.com/yyYsMaRb <- here, decoded
2091 2010-12-11 12:53:46 <johndrinkwater> Am I nuts wanting my wallet balance broken down into which address has what on it?
2092 2010-12-11 12:53:56 <joe_1> no
2093 2010-12-11 12:54:01 <ArtForz> iirc we use secp256k1 hardcoded
2094 2010-12-11 12:54:17 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: yep
2095 2010-12-11 12:54:23 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: so I hardcoded it in my client too :p
2096 2010-12-11 12:54:26 <ArtForz> so curve type/prime/A/B//G/order are fixed ...
2097 2010-12-11 12:54:39 <ArtForz> all thats left is priv and pub
2098 2010-12-11 12:54:42 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: bitcoin still store those in wallet.dat for each private key
2099 2010-12-11 12:55:02 <ArtForz> yea, but it seems like a waste of storage
2100 2010-12-11 12:55:05 <MT`AwAy> I think in my bitcoin client, I'll only store k
2101 2010-12-11 12:55:07 <ArtForz> pub is simply priv * G
2102 2010-12-11 12:55:15 <MT`AwAy> (k is priv)
2103 2010-12-11 12:55:45 <ArtForz> yea
2104 2010-12-11 12:55:54 <ArtForz> errr... depends on your reference
2105 2010-12-11 12:55:56 <MT`AwAy> we could be storing 32 bytes, we store 279 bytes
2106 2010-12-11 12:56:01 <ArtForz> yep
2107 2010-12-11 12:56:42 <ArtForz> well, at least we dont store it in base64 in xml *g*
2108 2010-12-11 12:56:49 <MT`AwAy> :D
2109 2010-12-11 12:57:34 <MT`AwAy> it's easier for me to only store k too (won't have to import all the DER-encoding functions)
2110 2010-12-11 12:57:49 <MT`AwAy> the pub key is easy, just output 0x04 (dunno why), then X and Y
2111 2010-12-11 12:58:33 <ArtForz> good Q about the 04 ... probably some kind of OSSL idiosyncracy
2112 2010-12-11 12:59:30 <genjix> A user on the network has one or several cryptographic identifiers (ECDSA keypairs), which represent their wallet. The public key counterpart of this wallet is called an address. The private key, stored only on the user's computer, is used to authorize payments from the user. The wallet or address contain no information about their owner, so they are effectively anonymous
2113 2010-12-11 12:59:34 <genjix> is that correct?
2114 2010-12-11 12:59:45 <ArtForz> no
2115 2010-12-11 13:00:08 <ArtForz> well.. the wallet part reads really weird
2116 2010-12-11 13:00:09 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2117 2010-12-11 13:00:30 <genjix> what's incorrect about it?
2118 2010-12-11 13:00:31 <altamic> I am still trying to understand the name of variables
2119 2010-12-11 13:00:41 <altamic> nCreditDebit
2120 2010-12-11 13:00:47 <ArtForz> The public key counterpart of this wallet <- whats a counterpart of a wallet ?
2121 2010-12-11 13:01:03 * johndrinkwater waits for some confirms
2122 2010-12-11 13:01:40 duck1123 has joined
2123 2010-12-11 13:03:25 <Kiba> wee!
2124 2010-12-11 13:03:32 <Kiba> somebody gave me 50 BTC
2125 2010-12-11 13:03:34 <Kiba> why is that?
2126 2010-12-11 13:04:20 <Kiba> me GALD
2127 2010-12-11 13:04:29 <lfm> someone likes you
2128 2010-12-11 13:04:38 * Diablo-D3 looks at his bitcoin balance
2129 2010-12-11 13:05:01 <Diablo-D3> its still 70 :<
2130 2010-12-11 13:05:08 * ArtForz looks at Diablo-D3s bitcoin balance
2131 2010-12-11 13:05:16 <lfm> Diablo-D3: don't hold your breath, no one likes you! :-)
2132 2010-12-11 13:05:22 * Diablo-D3 looks at ArtForz's bitcoin balance
2133 2010-12-11 13:05:26 <Diablo-D3> ITS OVER NINE THOUUSSAAAAAND
2134 2010-12-11 13:05:50 <Kiba> so I have more bitcoins than Diablo-D3
2135 2010-12-11 13:06:06 <ArtForz> 32650.04
2136 2010-12-11 13:06:14 <ArtForz> nope, wasnt me
2137 2010-12-11 13:06:24 <Kiba> 150.06 BTC
2138 2010-12-11 13:07:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: jesus christ
2139 2010-12-11 13:07:18 <Diablo-D3> whats that in dollars?
2140 2010-12-11 13:07:46 <ArtForz> at current market prices? about 6k
2141 2010-12-11 13:07:46 <lfm> $8k almost
2142 2010-12-11 13:07:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so your shit paid for itself.
2143 2010-12-11 13:08:15 <ArtForz> in a few years? hopefully more than my retirement fund
2144 2010-12-11 13:08:21 <lfm> why you think hes been doing it?
2145 2010-12-11 13:08:39 <Diablo-D3> lfm: meh, I still dont have a new video card :<
2146 2010-12-11 13:08:43 <ArtForz> for fun and profit?
2147 2010-12-11 13:08:54 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2148 2010-12-11 13:09:50 <Diablo-D3> 5850s are still fuck expensive
2149 2010-12-11 13:10:09 <ArtForz> you know, I started with a $50 investment
2150 2010-12-11 13:10:15 <lfm> Diablo-D3: and he hasnt said how many he sold already
2151 2010-12-11 13:10:24 <Kiba> thought you buy with a credit card, ArtForz
2152 2010-12-11 13:10:31 <ArtForz> nope
2153 2010-12-11 13:10:36 <Diablo-D3> lfm: you know, someday Im just going to stab you
2154 2010-12-11 13:10:55 <ArtForz> credit cards are quite uncommon in EURia
2155 2010-12-11 13:11:11 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ya, I could see that happening
2156 2010-12-11 13:11:32 <ArtForz> = most people have debit cards
2157 2010-12-11 13:12:08 <Kiba> I like credit cards
2158 2010-12-11 13:12:14 <Diablo-D3> 6850 == $185
2159 2010-12-11 13:12:22 <Kiba> because I can be a deadbeat to credit card company
2160 2010-12-11 13:12:24 TheAncientGoat_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2161 2010-12-11 13:12:26 TheAncientGoat has joined
2162 2010-12-11 13:12:31 <Diablo-D3> 5850 == $200
2163 2010-12-11 13:12:37 <Kiba> paying off your debt before the end of a month apperantly mean you're a deadbeat
2164 2010-12-11 13:12:43 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: they HATE deadbeats
2165 2010-12-11 13:12:56 <ArtForz> why? because sellers and buyers getting screwed by banks is now good?
2166 2010-12-11 13:13:09 <Kiba> because they want users with LOT OF DEBT
2167 2010-12-11 13:13:13 <Kiba> so they can MAKE MONEY
2168 2010-12-11 13:13:59 <Kiba> no, no, no. I am going to SCREW YOU, instead.
2169 2010-12-11 13:14:02 <doublec> Yay for the pool: http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000004c6f77930f9dbaf8f424723da3f832af9063d628946565b82d657
2170 2010-12-11 13:14:04 <genjix> ArtForz: better? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Incubator/Bitcoin#Technical
2171 2010-12-11 13:14:38 <Diablo-D3> erp got price wrong
2172 2010-12-11 13:14:40 <lfm> kiba they charge the merchants lots of fees to make up for deadbeats like you, dont feel sorry
2173 2010-12-11 13:15:00 <Kiba> I DON'T FEEL SORRY
2174 2010-12-11 13:15:18 <ArtForz> WAy better imo
2175 2010-12-11 13:15:23 <ArtForz> yep
2176 2010-12-11 13:15:30 <genjix> cool
2177 2010-12-11 13:15:43 <Diablo-D3> 6850 == $185, 5850 = 6870 == $240, 5850 = $255
2178 2010-12-11 13:15:56 <Kiba> BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin is now the second longest thread on the forum
2179 2010-12-11 13:16:06 <genjix> removing that header then
2180 2010-12-11 13:16:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: whats 6850 equiv to? 5770?
2181 2010-12-11 13:16:33 <ArtForz> halfway between 5770 and 5830
2182 2010-12-11 13:16:56 <Diablo-D3> hrrm
2183 2010-12-11 13:17:04 <ArtForz> 5770 150, 6850 170, 5830 200
2184 2010-12-11 13:17:39 * Diablo-D3 limits to 5830
2185 2010-12-11 13:17:42 <ArtForz> 6870 230, 5850 240, 5870 310, 5970 530
2186 2010-12-11 13:17:46 <Diablo-D3> need to beat my current card's 3D
2187 2010-12-11 13:17:55 <Diablo-D3> 5830 is almost twice as much, 5770 is almost th esame thing
2188 2010-12-11 13:17:59 <ArtForz> 5830 sucks for perf/W
2189 2010-12-11 13:18:32 <Diablo-D3> wtf it maxes out at 175
2190 2010-12-11 13:18:59 <ArtForz> yeah, nearly == 5870 power at 2/3 the hashrate
2191 2010-12-11 13:19:01 <Diablo-D3> 5830 uses more watts than a 5850
2192 2010-12-11 13:19:05 <ArtForz> yep
2193 2010-12-11 13:19:17 <Diablo-D3> wtf
2194 2010-12-11 13:19:20 * Diablo-D3 takes that off the list
2195 2010-12-11 13:19:22 <ArtForz> it runs at crazy high core voltage
2196 2010-12-11 13:19:36 funster has joined
2197 2010-12-11 13:19:51 <MT`AwAy> to convert from ECC pubkey to address, need to run a sha256, then ripemd160
2198 2010-12-11 13:20:15 <genjix> tada finished for today!
2199 2010-12-11 13:20:17 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Incubator/Bitcoin
2200 2010-12-11 13:20:18 <Diablo-D3> so my only options are 5850, 5870, 6850, 6870
2201 2010-12-11 13:20:19 <Diablo-D3> so
2202 2010-12-11 13:20:21 <Diablo-D3> fuck
2203 2010-12-11 13:20:26 <lfm> MT`AwAy:  yes
2204 2010-12-11 13:20:41 <ArtForz> or just get a 5770
2205 2010-12-11 13:20:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: 5770 isnt fast enough
2206 2010-12-11 13:21:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: its barely above the 3D performance of my 4850
2207 2010-12-11 13:21:20 <Diablo-D3> its a waste of money
2208 2010-12-11 13:21:21 <ArtForz> yes, and about 2x the hasrate at same power consumption
2209 2010-12-11 13:21:30 <Diablo-D3> I do stuff other than hash you know
2210 2010-12-11 13:21:40 <ArtForz> weed?
2211 2010-12-11 13:21:46 <Diablo-D3> ?
2212 2010-12-11 13:21:59 <Kiba> the weeds of war
2213 2010-12-11 13:22:06 <Diablo-D3> also, 6850 doesnt even seem worth it
2214 2010-12-11 13:22:23 <Diablo-D3> its barely more than a 5770 in 3D terms
2215 2010-12-11 13:22:41 <ArtForz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash <- second definition
2216 2010-12-11 13:22:50 <ArtForz> HUH?
2217 2010-12-11 13:22:53 <noagendamarket> I dont need a gpu to bittorrent :)-
2218 2010-12-11 13:23:10 <ArtForz> 6850 is nearly as fast as 5850 for 3D
2219 2010-12-11 13:23:16 <Diablo-D3> 6850 == 1488 gflops, 5770 == 13xx
2220 2010-12-11 13:23:27 <ArtForz> so is it 3D or hashing?
2221 2010-12-11 13:23:40 <ArtForz> 3D perf != shader throughput
2222 2010-12-11 13:23:45 <Diablo-D3> meh.
2223 2010-12-11 13:24:05 <ArtForz> 6850 has way more fixed function units than 5770
2224 2010-12-11 13:24:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: okay, so what card is exactly as fast as my 4850 in the 5xxx family in 3D?
2225 2010-12-11 13:24:13 <Diablo-D3> erm
2226 2010-12-11 13:24:18 <ArtForz> 3D? no clue
2227 2010-12-11 13:24:18 <Diablo-D3> the 6850 shouldnt have ANY fixed function units
2228 2010-12-11 13:24:24 <genjix> noagendamarket: you buying PokerStars for either mtgox$ or BTC?
2229 2010-12-11 13:24:35 <ArtForz> erm, yes. it does
2230 2010-12-11 13:24:39 <MT`AwAy> private key: 0ecb46ee5a2a439528e1ca866f285a615eff6d9b65f02ce0da51c1c4c40ba30c
2231 2010-12-11 13:24:39 <MT`AwAy> public key: 04d620d750bf3064bc3d4c8d3aed11d6560a032c53fb95c0a4e91ee067f774c8f813e821c399aac733c1c8575c7f3560ab3d3c3324c17f732f3e4b2ef5d6b3ea66
2232 2010-12-11 13:24:39 <MT`AwAy> Bitcoin addr: 1MbcYNpsohkf9jXZkEmMo4TxVmqhHNz5yz
2233 2010-12-11 13:24:45 <noagendamarket> genjix no
2234 2010-12-11 13:24:50 <genjix> ok
2235 2010-12-11 13:24:55 <genjix> damn its hard for us europeans
2236 2010-12-11 13:25:00 <ArtForz> 6850 is just a improved 5xxx
2237 2010-12-11 13:25:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so what happens when I run games that use no ffp stuff?
2238 2010-12-11 13:25:11 <ArtForz> games that dont have textures?
2239 2010-12-11 13:25:19 <ArtForz> are you playiong a lot of elite?
2240 2010-12-11 13:26:01 <Diablo-D3> meh, textures
2241 2010-12-11 13:26:47 wizeman has joined
2242 2010-12-11 13:26:58 <ArtForz> afair we still have have fixed function ROP, TEX and z-someting units
2243 2010-12-11 13:27:00 <Kiba> wee!
2244 2010-12-11 13:27:03 <Kiba> I just fixed a bug
2245 2010-12-11 13:27:54 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 120000
2246 2010-12-11 13:27:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 days, 1 hour, 48 minutes, and 37 seconds
2247 2010-12-11 13:28:02 <ArtForz> poor bug
2248 2010-12-11 13:28:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so, even though a 5770 is 13xx gflops, and my 4850 is 10xx gflops, will the 5770 be significantly faster in 3D?
2249 2010-12-11 13:28:49 <ArtForz> theres a bunch of charts somewhere for sure
2250 2010-12-11 13:28:56 <[Noodles]> doublec: works like a charm, 5.61 waiting to mature
2251 2010-12-11 13:29:03 <doublec> [Noodles], great!
2252 2010-12-11 13:29:24 <doublec> Looks like a bunch of people dropped off recently
2253 2010-12-11 13:29:31 <doublec> They'll be thankful for the contributed method
2254 2010-12-11 13:29:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, every benchmark I can find says no
2255 2010-12-11 13:30:03 <[Noodles]> i am too, cuz running secondlife slows the miner down sometimes ^.^
2256 2010-12-11 13:30:03 <ArtForz> iirc 5770 was trading blows with 4870
2257 2010-12-11 13:30:19 <Diablo-D3> 5770 seems to be half way between 4870 and 4850
2258 2010-12-11 13:30:23 <doublec> Yeah I'm getting more convinced that contributed is the better approach
2259 2010-12-11 13:30:38 <ArtForz> probably also depends a lot on driver and games tested
2260 2010-12-11 13:32:44 <ArtForz> and signs point to 69xx will be total suck
2261 2010-12-11 13:32:48 <ArtForz> at least for mining
2262 2010-12-11 13:33:29 <ArtForz> 6970 @ 1536SP/900MHz <260Mh/s
2263 2010-12-11 13:33:50 <Diablo-D3> well
2264 2010-12-11 13:34:04 <Diablo-D3> a 6850 should be 2x the 3D performance
2265 2010-12-11 13:34:21 <ArtForz> = about 8% faster than a 5850
2266 2010-12-11 13:34:31 <Diablo-D3> oh and btw
2267 2010-12-11 13:34:40 <Diablo-D3> it does seem 4870 and 5770 are == in 3D performance
2268 2010-12-11 13:34:53 <ArtForz> yeah, they should roughly be
2269 2010-12-11 13:34:55 <Diablo-D3> a 5850 is also about 2x in performance
2270 2010-12-11 13:34:58 <Diablo-D3> so
2271 2010-12-11 13:35:03 <Diablo-D3> 5850 or 6850 and up
2272 2010-12-11 13:35:46 <MT`AwAy> db4.7_dump ~/.bitcoin/wallet.dat
2273 2010-12-11 13:36:20 * MT`AwAy sees 103 EC private keys
2274 2010-12-11 13:36:26 <ArtForz> so while a 6970 should be a LOt faster than a 6870 for 3D, it's only 12% faster for mining
2275 2010-12-11 13:36:48 <ArtForz> and antilles will probably end up slower than 5970 for mining :/
2276 2010-12-11 13:37:23 <Diablo-D3> so I just have to clear $185
2277 2010-12-11 13:37:26 <Diablo-D3> and buy a 6850
2278 2010-12-11 13:37:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: what sort of khash/sec am I looking at there?
2279 2010-12-11 13:38:00 <omglolbbq> Diablo, your miner works even though coin generation is off in bitcoin itsself right?
2280 2010-12-11 13:38:01 <ArtForz> whre?
2281 2010-12-11 13:38:15 <ArtForz> 6850?
2282 2010-12-11 13:38:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: on a 6850
2283 2010-12-11 13:38:21 <ArtForz> 170Mh/s
2284 2010-12-11 13:38:22 <Diablo-D3> omglolbbq: uh, yes, its independent.
2285 2010-12-11 13:38:28 <Diablo-D3> omglolbbq: also, turn gen off in bitcoin
2286 2010-12-11 13:38:32 <ArtForz> maybe 173 with my miner
2287 2010-12-11 13:38:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: that low? wow
2288 2010-12-11 13:39:02 <omglolbbq> Diablo, i noticed turning it on will make khash drop dramaticaly in your miner :)
2289 2010-12-11 13:39:20 <Diablo-D3> omglolbbq: it will in any opencl app
2290 2010-12-11 13:39:23 <ArtForz> yep
2291 2010-12-11 13:39:29 <ArtForz> same thing with pyrit
2292 2010-12-11 13:39:31 <Diablo-D3> omglolbbq: though it depends on how shittu your kernel is
2293 2010-12-11 13:39:39 <Diablo-D3> I use BFS, I dont have that issue nearly as bad
2294 2010-12-11 13:39:40 <ArtForz> CPU load causes massive drops in OCL perf
2295 2010-12-11 13:40:04 <omglolbbq> turning it on gives me 2000khash extra but drops your miner with over 10000
2296 2010-12-11 13:40:19 <omglolbbq> not worth it :)
2297 2010-12-11 13:40:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so, 2x 3D performance, a little over 2x in miner performance... meh
2298 2010-12-11 13:40:29 <Diablo-D3> omglolbbq: ouch.
2299 2010-12-11 13:41:54 <ArtForz> *points at 5970 hash/$ and hash/W* sucks to be poor *ducks*
2300 2010-12-11 13:42:25 <Diablo-D3> did we decide if HIS was worth buying from?
2301 2010-12-11 13:42:58 <ArtForz> depends
2302 2010-12-11 13:43:52 <ArtForz> for reference design cards AIB usually makes crap-all difference
2303 2010-12-11 13:44:43 <Diablo-D3> yeah, bit no one buys powercolor for a reason
2304 2010-12-11 13:44:47 <Diablo-D3> or xfx
2305 2010-12-11 13:44:54 <Diablo-D3> or biostar
2306 2010-12-11 13:44:57 <Diablo-D3> or any other shit brand
2307 2010-12-11 13:45:01 <ArtForz> you forgot crap3d
2308 2010-12-11 13:45:34 <Diablo-D3> so, asus gigabyte msi and sapphire seems to be the only ones worth considering
2309 2010-12-11 13:45:38 <ArtForz> powercolor and crap3d seem to be the same OEM
2310 2010-12-11 13:45:55 <ArtForz> = they have the EXACT SAME shitty non-ref 5770s and 5850s
2311 2010-12-11 13:46:07 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=100007709&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=1314&Manufactory=1561&Manufactory=1315&Manufactory=1312&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A49753&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A49754&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A79235&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A79234
2312 2010-12-11 13:48:32 <ArtForz> I'd also check for reference cards from cheap AIBs
2313 2010-12-11 13:50:27 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2314 2010-12-11 13:50:47 <ArtForz> I kinda like that gigabyte 6850
2315 2010-12-11 13:51:04 duck1123 has joined
2316 2010-12-11 13:51:27 <ArtForz> dual fan heatsink with huge fin area = should be pretty quiet if you have a bit of case airflow
2317 2010-12-11 13:55:53 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2318 2010-12-11 13:59:49 noagendamarket has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2319 2010-12-11 14:00:06 blablaa has joined
2320 2010-12-11 14:00:26 noagendamarket has joined
2321 2010-12-11 14:14:10 mrklead has joined
2322 2010-12-11 14:16:56 <mrklead> what products are under development right now?
2323 2010-12-11 14:19:19 <Kiba> products?
2324 2010-12-11 14:19:39 mrklead has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2325 2010-12-11 14:19:45 <johndrinkwater> lol
2326 2010-12-11 14:19:56 <johndrinkwater> should’ve mentioned the tshirts & mugs
2327 2010-12-11 14:20:13 <Kiba> ?
2328 2010-12-11 14:20:27 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2329 2010-12-11 14:21:20 duck1123 has joined
2330 2010-12-11 14:21:45 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2331 2010-12-11 14:26:28 nathan7 has joined
2332 2010-12-11 14:27:42 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2333 2010-12-11 14:27:57 wizeman has joined
2334 2010-12-11 14:31:10 blablaa has left ()
2335 2010-12-11 14:32:33 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2336 2010-12-11 14:35:41 xelister has joined
2337 2010-12-11 14:36:21 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2338 2010-12-11 14:37:07 mtgox has joined
2339 2010-12-11 14:42:42 sjaak has joined
2340 2010-12-11 14:48:24 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2341 2010-12-11 14:48:37 wizeman has joined
2342 2010-12-11 14:50:35 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2343 2010-12-11 14:50:51 wizeman has joined
2344 2010-12-11 14:53:27 <helmut> Rhonda: precisely what did you take from backports? boost? g++?
2345 2010-12-11 14:58:06 funster has quit ()
2346 2010-12-11 15:04:09 <genjix> time to fire my laz0rs at paypal
2347 2010-12-11 15:04:23 <genjix> bzzzzzttt. fry motherfuckers
2348 2010-12-11 15:05:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: url for that image of your 5 box cluster
2349 2010-12-11 15:06:57 engla has joined
2350 2010-12-11 15:07:26 <ArtForz> http://bayimg.com/eABDfaAdd
2351 2010-12-11 15:08:56 <ArtForz> test fit of 1st case prototype: http://bayimg.com/KAAeaaAdp
2352 2010-12-11 15:09:42 <engla> bitcoin is not truly distributed, is it? because each transaction must be in sync
2353 2010-12-11 15:09:53 <ArtForz> no
2354 2010-12-11 15:10:49 <ArtForz> why would they have to be?
2355 2010-12-11 15:11:04 <cdecker> Why wouldn't it be distributed just because you have to sync?
2356 2010-12-11 15:11:31 <ArtForz> block chain determines which of 2 transactions that spend the same coin is "first" == legit
2357 2010-12-11 15:11:46 <engla> ok
2358 2010-12-11 15:11:50 <cdecker> Yup, I always think of it this way
2359 2010-12-11 15:12:08 <cdecker> The one winning the generation lottery becomes the advocate who decides what is legit
2360 2010-12-11 15:12:14 <ArtForz> yep
2361 2010-12-11 15:12:16 <engla> if it's fully distributed, then it can diverge yes that coins are used in multiple transactions
2362 2010-12-11 15:12:25 <ArtForz> no
2363 2010-12-11 15:12:38 <ArtForz> just because it's distibuted doesnt mean that a consensus can't be reached
2364 2010-12-11 15:12:39 <cdecker> Didn't get the question
2365 2010-12-11 15:12:52 <ArtForz> that consensus IS the chain
2366 2010-12-11 15:12:56 <xelister> on mtgox, what type of bank account must be provided? Does any bank account that accepts USD works? Can I change this account number, can it be other for different transaction?
2367 2010-12-11 15:13:00 <cdecker> Oh you mean chain splits
2368 2010-12-11 15:13:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, someone shit their pants over your shit
2369 2010-12-11 15:13:04 <engla> yes you said so and you also said that the one winning the next block will decide
2370 2010-12-11 15:13:13 Xanie has joined
2371 2010-12-11 15:13:15 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: ?
2372 2010-12-11 15:13:25 <ArtForz> yes
2373 2010-12-11 15:13:42 <cdecker> ArtForz: truly amazing cluster, that 20 GPU right there?
2374 2010-12-11 15:13:51 <ArtForz> 40 GPU, 20 cards
2375 2010-12-11 15:13:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I showed it to someone who was bitching their laptop gpu was 100c
2376 2010-12-11 15:13:56 <ArtForz> all 5970s
2377 2010-12-11 15:14:19 <cdecker> And you're still using your own brand of miner, right?
2378 2010-12-11 15:14:23 <ArtForz> yup
2379 2010-12-11 15:14:37 Toadyonps3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2380 2010-12-11 15:14:43 <ArtForz> I'll probbaly switch to a hacked version of diablos soon
2381 2010-12-11 15:14:51 <cdecker> That must have set you back quite some money, buying all that hardware
2382 2010-12-11 15:14:57 <xelister> ArtForz: what hacks you need?
2383 2010-12-11 15:15:01 <cdecker> Or did you just happen to have it laying around?
2384 2010-12-11 15:15:05 <cdecker> :D
2385 2010-12-11 15:15:05 <ArtForz> diablos host modified for my kernel
2386 2010-12-11 15:15:22 <ArtForz> I invested $50
2387 2010-12-11 15:15:26 <xelister> Diablo-D3: for looping nounces in gpu?
2388 2010-12-11 15:15:40 <engla> ArtForz: excuse me if I don't know the details, but does the "default" conflict resolution mechanism use backtracking or something? Or it's simpler than that?
2389 2010-12-11 15:15:56 <xelister> ArtForz:  for looping nounces in gpu?
2390 2010-12-11 15:16:13 <ArtForz> yep
2391 2010-12-11 15:16:28 <cdecker> I never did understand the details of GPU mining myself
2392 2010-12-11 15:16:34 <ArtForz> all HW (and my next dozen of 5970s) is already more than paid for
2393 2010-12-11 15:16:36 <cdecker> I'm more of a Protocol guy
2394 2010-12-11 15:17:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh
2395 2010-12-11 15:17:10 <cdecker> You basically tell the GPU to find a nounce that has a certain minimum threshhold?
2396 2010-12-11 15:17:22 <cdecker> That way you take all the load off the CPU, right?
2397 2010-12-11 15:17:39 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: not quiiitteee
2398 2010-12-11 15:17:56 <ArtForz> Diablo: I sold over 200kBTC so far
2399 2010-12-11 15:18:08 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: you tell the GPU to solve a few hundred hashes at once.
2400 2010-12-11 15:18:31 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: if any come up with a possibly valid solution, it marks them and sends them back to the host code
2401 2010-12-11 15:18:51 <cdecker> Could one just create a random nonce and then tell the GPU to go ahead and increment the nonce until it finds a hash?
2402 2010-12-11 15:19:20 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: uh, no?
2403 2010-12-11 15:19:24 <edcba> ArtForz: wtf 200k !!!
2404 2010-12-11 15:19:25 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: the gpu is massively parallel hardware
2405 2010-12-11 15:19:29 <edcba> at 0.20 ?
2406 2010-12-11 15:19:44 <ArtForz> not quite
2407 2010-12-11 15:20:04 <cdecker> Ok, I get it, getwork only works having well defined work boundaries
2408 2010-12-11 15:20:19 <ArtForz> about $0.14 avg
2409 2010-12-11 15:20:24 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: yes. getwork returns a hash that has everything in it but the nonce in the 20th int
2410 2010-12-11 15:20:55 <Diablo-D3> cdecker: so, you rotate through all the nonces
2411 2010-12-11 15:21:13 <cdecker> Ok I see
2412 2010-12-11 15:21:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so, with my miner set for looping, it makes up for that last 2%?
2413 2010-12-11 15:21:34 <cdecker> Gives you rather more control than what I was thinking about
2414 2010-12-11 15:21:45 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: it should
2415 2010-12-11 15:21:56 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
2416 2010-12-11 15:22:00 <Diablo-D3> Maybe I should add that
2417 2010-12-11 15:22:29 <xelister> ArtForz: maybe you should base on that miner with more logging, options, nice TABs etc
2418 2010-12-11 15:23:04 <Diablo-D3> xelister: erm, once I commit my slf4j code, Im not sure how you can say more logging
2419 2010-12-11 15:23:16 <ArtForz> xelister: meaybe you should fuck a goat
2420 2010-12-11 15:23:38 <cdecker> I wouldn't want to see that offspring :D
2421 2010-12-11 15:25:05 <ArtForz> it's a miner, I dont care if the code is indented with spaces, tabs or baby seals as long as its fast
2422 2010-12-11 15:25:15 <xelister> Diablo-D3: logging more information; also, retrying to upload noance
2423 2010-12-11 15:25:25 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no point in retrying
2424 2010-12-11 15:25:28 <xelister> instead of possibility of loosing nonce if some temporarly onnectivity problems
2425 2010-12-11 15:25:29 <Diablo-D3> if it fails, its already dead.
2426 2010-12-11 15:25:34 <xelister> why so
2427 2010-12-11 15:25:38 <ArtForz> if it fails the 1st time, it failed for a reason
2428 2010-12-11 15:25:39 <Diablo-D3> chain changed by then
2429 2010-12-11 15:25:47 <ArtForz> ^ that
2430 2010-12-11 15:26:29 <xelister> the reason can change, like - lack of connectivity of bitcoind, or bitcoind crashed and restarting, or bitcoind killed and restarting by mistake and/or upgrade to new version, or loss of connectivityto bitcoind on other comuter
2431 2010-12-11 15:26:40 <engla> Does anyone have any external sources for bitcoin? Something is needed as a basis for a wikipedia article. I think interest is increasing right now
2432 2010-12-11 15:27:01 <xelister> it retries just for few minutes, because later it indeed doesn't make sense since block was already found by someone else instead likelly
2433 2010-12-11 15:27:01 <Diablo-D3> xelister: and you generated a block during those few seconds?
2434 2010-12-11 15:27:17 <Diablo-D3> its pointless to retry
2435 2010-12-11 15:27:26 <Diablo-D3> its just extra code to handle a case that wont happen
2436 2010-12-11 15:27:45 <xelister> Diablo-D3: yes, well bitcoind can take some time to start up fully with connections etc,  I guess when you generate hundrets of block, then it could happen
2437 2010-12-11 15:27:50 <xelister> anyway, it couldn't hurt
2438 2010-12-11 15:27:58 <ArtForz> about as braindead as handling multiple H==0 per 1024 onces
2439 2010-12-11 15:28:30 <xelister> well dropping block did happened to me
2440 2010-12-11 15:28:35 <xelister> and Im just on _1_ card
2441 2010-12-11 15:28:39 <Diablo-D3> xelister: except if bitcoind is still starting up, the generated block was invalid anyhow
2442 2010-12-11 15:28:46 <xelister> it was probably a tree collision. or bitcoind lost connections, not sure
2443 2010-12-11 15:28:55 <ArtForz> if you're continously restarting the bitcoin node your miners are hanging off of, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
2444 2010-12-11 15:28:58 <ArtForz> testnet?
2445 2010-12-11 15:29:04 <xelister> on realnet
2446 2010-12-11 15:29:29 <ArtForz> using m0s getwork or mainline?
2447 2010-12-11 15:29:32 <cdecker> ArtForz: how fast is one of your cards hashing? Just checking whether it is worth investing right now
2448 2010-12-11 15:29:34 <xelister> well not continously, but there will be an update with new version of bitcoind
2449 2010-12-11 15:30:12 <ArtForz> so ... about 10 seconds every week
2450 2010-12-11 15:30:14 <xelister> chance of loosing block because I was just restarting the bitcoind, or because network connection was down for like 30 seconds, is sloppy programming for me
2451 2010-12-11 15:30:26 <ArtForz> yeah, those 0.002% will REALLY hurt
2452 2010-12-11 15:30:31 <xelister> btw in Poland, many users lost internet connection for minute every day
2453 2010-12-11 15:30:38 <ArtForz> so?
2454 2010-12-11 15:30:40 <Diablo-D3> so?
2455 2010-12-11 15:30:55 <Diablo-D3> a) Poland should fucking revolt, thats unacceptable
2456 2010-12-11 15:30:58 <xelister> so I like miner perfectly not-loosing any solutions
2457 2010-12-11 15:31:01 <ArtForz> miners tend to be on your LAN
2458 2010-12-11 15:31:02 <Diablo-D3> b) why is your bitcoind across the internet?
2459 2010-12-11 15:31:05 <xelister> anything else is sloppy programming
2460 2010-12-11 15:31:09 <ArtForz> ^ this
2461 2010-12-11 15:31:23 <xelister> by my standard
2462 2010-12-11 15:31:25 <ArtForz> and if you find a block while your node is fucking offline, you pretty much lost anyways
2463 2010-12-11 15:31:38 <xelister> why I loose? its online in a moment
2464 2010-12-11 15:32:20 <cdecker> In that case write a SOCKS proxy that retries if unable to get a confirmation
2465 2010-12-11 15:32:31 <ArtForz> so you got a nice solution for made up non-problems
2466 2010-12-11 15:32:34 <cdecker> Shouldn't be too hard and it doesn't weigh in on the main client
2467 2010-12-11 15:32:38 <xelister> cdecker: yes, write a SOCKS proxy server, that is obviously better idea
2468 2010-12-11 15:32:43 <xelister> then adding 10 lines of code
2469 2010-12-11 15:32:49 <ArtForz> meanwhile I just disabled the dont-gen-if-0-conns code and added autoreconnect to my node
2470 2010-12-11 15:32:51 <cdecker> Yup
2471 2010-12-11 15:33:00 mndrix1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2472 2010-12-11 15:33:00 <cdecker> SOCKS can be implemented in 10 lines :D
2473 2010-12-11 15:33:13 <ArtForz> because otherwise your node takes AGES to notice all its peers suddenly fell silent
2474 2010-12-11 15:33:14 mndrix has joined
2475 2010-12-11 15:33:14 mndrix has quit (Changing host)
2476 2010-12-11 15:33:14 mndrix has joined
2477 2010-12-11 15:33:32 <cdecker> Oh I got it
2478 2010-12-11 15:33:40 <cdecker> use fping to check if you're online
2479 2010-12-11 15:33:55 <cdecker> Then when using the connection suspend bitcoin and its miners
2480 2010-12-11 15:34:00 <xelister> bitcoind is online; goes offline; miner just then founds block; bitcoind gets back online in 60 seconds
2481 2010-12-11 15:34:04 <cdecker> That way they won't generate :D
2482 2010-12-11 15:34:10 <xelister> afair, then normal miner will just drop the block
2483 2010-12-11 15:34:14 <xelister> and mine will send it
2484 2010-12-11 15:34:23 <ArtForz> xelister: mine will accept the block just fine
2485 2010-12-11 15:34:38 <ArtForz> my node happily accepts blocks while it has no peers
2486 2010-12-11 15:35:02 <ArtForz> and starts broadcasting them as soon as it's back online
2487 2010-12-11 15:35:16 <xelister> it this default behaviour
2488 2010-12-11 15:35:21 <xelister> in mainline node
2489 2010-12-11 15:35:22 <ArtForz> no
2490 2010-12-11 15:35:35 <xelister> well you see, mine node provides same nice feauture for mainline nodes
2491 2010-12-11 15:35:38 <ArtForz> patchset for my node vs. mailine is ~30kB, without my custom miner stuff
2492 2010-12-11 15:35:42 <xelister> mine miner provides same nice feauture for mainline nodes
2493 2010-12-11 15:36:44 <xelister> we could calculate probability that the block is still valid after 600/L seconds, and what is chance that block will be found during the "offline time".  L=offline duration N=how many such offline events per day
2494 2010-12-11 15:36:52 brucewagner has joined
2495 2010-12-11 15:37:01 <xelister> and this will say how much blocks are "saved" by ArtForz's patch to bitcoind, or ours patch to miner
2496 2010-12-11 15:37:23 <brucewagner> Hi, All. Is the Forum & Bitcoin.org down again?
2497 2010-12-11 15:37:26 <xelister> for some users it can be like  L=30s, N=1  or  L=30s,N=10 on less good connections, or worse
2498 2010-12-11 15:37:41 <ArtForz> my conn SUCKS, and it drops for about 3s/day
2499 2010-12-11 15:37:59 <xelister> ArtForz: you obviously never been to countries with internet like poland ;)
2500 2010-12-11 15:38:17 <brucewagner> Is the Forum & Bitcoin.org down again?
2501 2010-12-11 15:38:24 <xelister> ArtForz: 30% of population have L=60sec, N=1
2502 2010-12-11 15:38:31 <tcatm> brucewagner: IIRC sirius said something about moving servers...
2503 2010-12-11 15:38:53 <xelister> also, if this not-droping-blocks-because-no-connections would be not imported, why code it in your patches ArtForz
2504 2010-12-11 15:38:57 <helmut> is it just me that cannot reach www.bitcoin.org?
2505 2010-12-11 15:39:08 <ArtForz> I have it in my patches because MY line sucks
2506 2010-12-11 15:39:17 <helmut> ah. not only me, brucewagner too
2507 2010-12-11 15:39:37 <ArtForz> while the rest of the civilized world has decent 24/7 connections
2508 2010-12-11 15:39:37 <xelister> and commonly lines are even worse then yours ArtForz :)
2509 2010-12-11 15:40:15 <xelister> even bitcoin.org is down ;)
2510 2010-12-11 15:40:22 Bimmerhead has joined
2511 2010-12-11 15:40:24 <xelister> or mastercard lol >_>
2512 2010-12-11 15:40:33 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2513 2010-12-11 15:40:35 <xelister> but seriously. Many people have worse connections
2514 2010-12-11 15:40:58 zylche has joined
2515 2010-12-11 15:41:22 <ArtForz> you do realize even 60s/day is 0.07%, right?
2516 2010-12-11 15:41:44 <ArtForz> it's more of a because-I-can thing
2517 2010-12-11 15:41:57 <ArtForz> same reason I used to check for multiple H==0 in 1024 nonces
2518 2010-12-11 15:41:57 <xelister> so probably like 0.05% bloks are saved
2519 2010-12-11 15:42:10 <ArtForz> meanwhile my miner is 2% faster
2520 2010-12-11 15:42:30 <brucewagner> Why does Bitcoin.org go down so often??
2521 2010-12-11 15:42:32 <ArtForz> only 1.93% to go
2522 2010-12-11 15:42:48 <ArtForz> of course my miner already does this crap, but it's pointless anyways
2523 2010-12-11 15:42:48 <xelister> well I felt it would be criminally wrong to not spend 10 minutes doing sich improvment ;)
2524 2010-12-11 15:43:22 <ArtForz> because all this makes so small a difference, you might as well forget it
2525 2010-12-11 15:43:26 <helmut> can I simply copy my .bitcoin folder (excluding wallet) from one system to another?
2526 2010-12-11 15:43:27 <xelister> it would mostly help a mobile/g3 based miner like outside of city
2527 2010-12-11 15:43:40 <xelister> probably like N=30s, L=100
2528 2010-12-11 15:43:59 <xelister> especially if hes travlling, then N=30s, L=1000 :P
2529 2010-12-11 15:44:15 <ArtForz> next step up is custom ASICs, who the fuck has $200k for hardware but not enough money for a decent line?
2530 2010-12-11 15:44:45 <ArtForz> well, not quite fully custom ASICs
2531 2010-12-11 15:44:47 <xelister> it's more a 'its how it should be done actually' thing
2532 2010-12-11 15:44:51 <Diablo-D3> lol
2533 2010-12-11 15:45:12 <ArtForz> structured ASIC
2534 2010-12-11 15:45:28 <Diablo-D3> well
2535 2010-12-11 15:45:31 <Diablo-D3> to buy the asics
2536 2010-12-11 15:45:35 <Diablo-D3> and have them designed
2537 2010-12-11 15:45:41 <Diablo-D3> and you need to buy like 100k at a whack
2538 2010-12-11 15:45:43 <xelister> hm, do you think it makes any sense to build hw for sha1? doubt that anyone without investing milions can get cheaper GPU-power/milion$ then mass produced cra
2539 2010-12-11 15:45:47 <Diablo-D3> thats about a million dollars
2540 2010-12-11 15:46:02 <Diablo-D3> you could just buy a million dollars worth of 5970 and instantly win all coins left
2541 2010-12-11 15:46:04 <xelister> even with milions... is it possible to beat 5970
2542 2010-12-11 15:46:15 <ArtForz> at about $200k it rivals 5970s for hash/$
2543 2010-12-11 15:46:23 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: in the meantime you have places like http://www.bitcoinme.com/discussion-forum.html available
2544 2010-12-11 15:46:36 <ArtForz> and it beats 5970s by a decent factor on hash/W
2545 2010-12-11 15:46:44 <xelister> ArtForz: what will you do if later the hash formula is changed? :P :P :P
2546 2010-12-11 15:47:19 <Diablo-D3> ergo the glory of generic gpus.
2547 2010-12-11 15:47:38 <Diablo-D3> plus, when mining is finally over, I can still play games on my radeon
2548 2010-12-11 15:47:43 * xelister imagines an india-jobs.com bid "Need to reprogram 1000 hardware custom sha1 solvers. Price for soltering gun not included"
2549 2010-12-11 15:47:53 <doublec> ;;isitdown http://bitcoin.org
2550 2010-12-11 15:47:59 <gribble> It's not just you!
2551 2010-12-11 15:48:25 <Diablo-D3> xelister: s/program/fab/
2552 2010-12-11 15:48:33 <ArtForz> better start working on the change quickly
2553 2010-12-11 15:48:52 <xelister> actually it could make sense to move to sha2 or sha3 in time
2554 2010-12-11 15:49:14 <ArtForz> sha256 IS sha2
2555 2010-12-11 15:49:16 <Diablo-D3> we use sha2 now you moron
2556 2010-12-11 15:49:21 <brucewagner> The Bitcoin.org site, and associated forum, is DOWN again right now.   Does anyone know WHY it goes down so often?
2557 2010-12-11 15:49:21 <ArtForz> numnut
2558 2010-12-11 15:49:25 <xelister> meh, right
2559 2010-12-11 15:49:32 <xelister> stfu :>
2560 2010-12-11 15:49:47 <xelister> well so to sha3
2561 2010-12-11 15:49:47 <Diablo-D3> you first
2562 2010-12-11 15:49:50 <brucewagner> I am going to start DOUBLE-POSTING all of my Forum posts into BOTH the bitcoin.org furum AND the bitcoinme.com forum.
2563 2010-12-11 15:49:52 <Diablo-D3> and sha3 isnt out yet
2564 2010-12-11 15:49:58 <Diablo-D3> they only yesterday announced the finalist
2565 2010-12-11 15:50:04 <xelister> yea when the finall is chosen
2566 2010-12-11 15:50:42 <ArtForz> keep dreaming
2567 2010-12-11 15:51:02 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: bitcoinme forum is down right now
2568 2010-12-11 15:51:14 <xelister> what, you dont think there will be sha3 or what
2569 2010-12-11 15:51:35 <doublec> This is only the second time I've seen it down
2570 2010-12-11 15:51:43 <xelister> wonder could there be such hash formula that gives CPU greate advantage over GPUs and again makes CPU mining reasonable
2571 2010-12-11 15:51:44 <ArtForz> yes, lets change to a new and untested hashing algo, what could possibly go wrong
2572 2010-12-11 15:51:45 <doublec> I wouldn't say it goes down 'often'
2573 2010-12-11 15:51:50 <ArtForz> xelister: yep
2574 2010-12-11 15:52:00 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: use bitcoin.in then :p
2575 2010-12-11 15:52:02 <xelister> ArtForz: do you have problems reading english text today
2576 2010-12-11 15:52:05 <ArtForz> just use something that does a crapton of random memory access
2577 2010-12-11 15:52:15 <ArtForz> GPUs suddenly suck
2578 2010-12-11 15:52:19 <xelister> <xelister> actually it could make sense to move [...] sha3 in time
2579 2010-12-11 15:52:21 <xelister> IN TIME
2580 2010-12-11 15:52:41 <xelister> like in next 3 years
2581 2010-12-11 15:52:55 <ArtForz> while that custom sha2 hardware will pay off in < 9 months
2582 2010-12-11 15:53:06 <xelister> really?
2583 2010-12-11 15:53:09 <ArtForz> yup
2584 2010-12-11 15:53:24 <xelister> but again, how much it costs, 200k?
2585 2010-12-11 15:53:28 <ArtForz> about that
2586 2010-12-11 15:53:47 <Diablo-D3> xelister: except mining may be over in 3 years
2587 2010-12-11 15:54:01 <xelister> is really bitcoin economy big enough... because if not, then during this half year+, market could collapse
2588 2010-12-11 15:54:21 <helmut> any clue why bitcoind uses full cpu when gethashespersec returns 0?
2589 2010-12-11 15:54:26 <ArtForz> thats what I'm currently analyzing
2590 2010-12-11 15:54:26 <xelister> Diablo-D3: why mining would be over
2591 2010-12-11 15:54:35 <xelister> helmut: is it yet starting up?
2592 2010-12-11 15:54:39 <ArtForz> current economy probably wouldnt be able to sustain it
2593 2010-12-11 15:54:39 <helmut> xelister: yes
2594 2010-12-11 15:54:55 <xelister> helmut: wait untill it finishes downloading/reading blocks, can take minutes
2595 2010-12-11 15:54:57 <helmut> xelister: i just don't understand why it would use full cpu then.
2596 2010-12-11 15:55:18 <xelister> it parses previous blocks or something
2597 2010-12-11 15:55:22 <ArtForz> but then why sell all those bitcoins as you gen them?
2598 2010-12-11 15:55:50 <ArtForz> it's more like a cheaper way to get a crapload of BTC
2599 2010-12-11 15:55:56 <xelister> well what worries me is that we have like
2600 2010-12-11 15:56:01 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2601 2010-12-11 15:56:05 <xelister> ;;bc,stats;
2602 2010-12-11 15:56:05 <gribble> Error: "bc,stats;" is not a valid command.
2603 2010-12-11 15:56:07 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
2604 2010-12-11 15:56:08 <xelister> ;;bc,stat
2605 2010-12-11 15:56:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97038 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1745 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 2 hours, 46 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13356.87065775
2606 2010-12-11 15:56:10 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
2607 2010-12-11 15:56:42 <xelister> 98783*50*0.20
2608 2010-12-11 15:56:48 <xelister> 1 milion USD worht of BTC
2609 2010-12-11 15:57:00 <ArtForz> yea, so?
2610 2010-12-11 15:57:05 <xelister> I doubt all the services nowdays buyable in BTC are worth even 1/10 of that
2611 2010-12-11 15:57:26 <xelister> few hostings, some small trading, some games... all that sounds like <50.000 USD
2612 2010-12-11 15:57:37 <ArtForz> ... somewhere around that
2613 2010-12-11 15:58:29 <helmut> xelister: obviously that means the selling bit coins now is a good idea.
2614 2010-12-11 15:58:39 <xelister> meaning that true value of BTC, or the lowest boundary taking into account exchangable goods -vs- currency,
2615 2010-12-11 15:58:43 <CIA-84> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r36f94bc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Removed -a, bitalign is now automatically detected - http://bit.ly/haruhN
2616 2010-12-11 15:58:50 <xelister> can be in reality as low as 0.01 usd/btc
2617 2010-12-11 15:58:58 <ArtForz> but it has the potential to completely replace LR$, various shady digital gold currencies, ... for online scams and ponzi schemes, HUGE market
2618 2010-12-11 15:59:14 <helmut> xelister: also note that your estimation is an upper limit, you need to take into account that a certain amount of coins is lost forever.
2619 2010-12-11 15:59:34 <xelister> helmut: well perhaps like 10%.. doubt that pro miners loose theirs
2620 2010-12-11 16:00:03 <helmut> xelister: yeah. so you can expect that the exchange rate will go down some day (adapting to real value)
2621 2010-12-11 16:00:15 <Diablo-D3> are the forums down?
2622 2010-12-11 16:00:16 <xelister> the lower boundary price of coins, from cost to generate them, but NOT taking into account how many where already cheaply generated,
2623 2010-12-11 16:00:19 <brucewagner> @MTAwAy:  No, BitcoinMe.com forum is UP   :)
2624 2010-12-11 16:00:22 <xelister> is around 0.10 usd/BTC right?
2625 2010-12-11 16:00:35 <ArtForz> WAY less
2626 2010-12-11 16:00:40 <xelister> helmut: or - hopefylly - economy expands
2627 2010-12-11 16:00:58 <xelister> ArtForz: it seems to be around 0.20 for non-pro miners
2628 2010-12-11 16:01:03 <ArtForz> at current difficulty it's < $0.02 at $0.10/kWh
2629 2010-12-11 16:01:18 <xelister> electricity, dicking around with it, hardware
2630 2010-12-11 16:01:23 <omglolbbq> the value of btc is just what other people give for it, nothing more, nothing less
2631 2010-12-11 16:01:35 <doublec> heh, looks like someone is pounding the pool server with fake hashes
2632 2010-12-11 16:01:56 <doublec> or rather, trying too
2633 2010-12-11 16:02:01 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9873/bitcoinmedown.png
2634 2010-12-11 16:02:06 <ArtForz> xelister: if you think btc are overvalued, better sell em now
2635 2010-12-11 16:02:36 <xelister> well thoes are the low estimates. Perhaps the marked will grow rapidly :)
2636 2010-12-11 16:02:52 <ArtForz> meanwhile other people are trying to figure out the best way to get a LOT of btc "cheap"
2637 2010-12-11 16:02:55 wizeman has joined
2638 2010-12-11 16:04:34 <helmut> btw. has anyone tried to estimate whether renting amazon for crunching coins is worth the money?
2639 2010-12-11 16:04:57 <ArtForz> yes, not worth it
2640 2010-12-11 16:05:02 <helmut> :-)
2641 2010-12-11 16:05:06 <Granttt> helmut: i seem to recall from forums, not worth it
2642 2010-12-11 16:05:07 <Diablo-D3> helmut: very not worth it
2643 2010-12-11 16:05:15 <ArtForz> about 8x cheaper to just buy BTC at $0.2
2644 2010-12-11 16:05:34 <Diablo-D3> helmut: of all the vps and cloud services, rapidexn and rackspace cloudshit is the cheapest
2645 2010-12-11 16:05:44 <Diablo-D3> and its still more expensive than just buying the coins
2646 2010-12-11 16:09:08 omglolbbq1 has joined
2647 2010-12-11 16:09:30 <Diablo-D3> Im going to bed
2648 2010-12-11 16:09:32 <Diablo-D3> night all
2649 2010-12-11 16:09:43 <Diablo-D3> and someone make sure that auto -a works
2650 2010-12-11 16:11:36 omglolbbq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2651 2010-12-11 16:14:20 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2652 2010-12-11 16:15:26 <helmut> I have bad luck. one day of crunching and still now coin. :-/
2653 2010-12-11 16:15:31 <helmut> s/now/no/
2654 2010-12-11 16:16:26 <doublec> helmut, how many khash/s do you get?
2655 2010-12-11 16:17:08 <helmut> 1932828
2656 2010-12-11 16:17:42 <helmut> is siting behind a nat a problem for making coins?
2657 2010-12-11 16:17:58 <omglolbbq1> wtf 2 mln khash O_O
2658 2010-12-11 16:18:11 <helmut> is that much?
2659 2010-12-11 16:18:16 <omglolbbq1> yea...
2660 2010-12-11 16:18:27 <helmut> it's one of my slower systems...
2661 2010-12-11 16:18:29 <omglolbbq1> you should get about 3 blocks a day or so
2662 2010-12-11 16:18:38 <omglolbbq1> what the hell kinda systems you have?
2663 2010-12-11 16:19:05 <helmut> one of my servers has 8 cores running 2.6Ghz
2664 2010-12-11 16:19:16 <helmut> this is just my desktop
2665 2010-12-11 16:19:25 <ArtForz> *calls bullshit*
2666 2010-12-11 16:19:38 <omglolbbq1> 2mln on a desktop is bull
2667 2010-12-11 16:19:43 <MT`AwAy> omglolbbq1: it's not in khash/sec, but in hash/sec
2668 2010-12-11 16:19:53 <helmut> ahh.
2669 2010-12-11 16:19:53 <ArtForz> well... that makes more sense
2670 2010-12-11 16:19:56 <omglolbbq1> thats quite different
2671 2010-12-11 16:20:00 <helmut> indeed.
2672 2010-12-11 16:20:09 <omglolbbq1> makes sense xD
2673 2010-12-11 16:20:09 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 1933
2674 2010-12-11 16:20:09 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 1932
2675 2010-12-11 16:20:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1933 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 45 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 56 minutes, and 55 seconds
2676 2010-12-11 16:20:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1932 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 45 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 51 minutes, and 45 seconds
2677 2010-12-11 16:20:21 <helmut> I just copied the number from hashespersec and didn't read the "k" in your question, sorry.
2678 2010-12-11 16:20:25 <omglolbbq1> explains why there's no block yet
2679 2010-12-11 16:20:32 <helmut> indeed
2680 2010-12-11 16:21:21 genjix has left ()
2681 2010-12-11 16:21:28 <Bimmerhead> ArtForz, what are electricity rates where you generate?
2682 2010-12-11 16:21:34 <omglolbbq1> so it's no bad luck, it would be extreme luck if you did get one
2683 2010-12-11 16:21:52 <ArtForz> very close to 0 in winter
2684 2010-12-11 16:21:57 genjix has joined
2685 2010-12-11 16:22:05 <genjix> bitcoin.org is down again
2686 2010-12-11 16:22:12 <Bimmerhead> 0 is a good number
2687 2010-12-11 16:22:18 <ArtForz> yup
2688 2010-12-11 16:22:34 <genjix> responds to ping but doesn't load.
2689 2010-12-11 16:22:45 <helmut> what was the site with the estimator again?
2690 2010-12-11 16:23:20 <genjix> people! this is not good for bitcoin if the site keeps going down!
2691 2010-12-11 16:24:34 <ArtForz> shrug, guess just the usual unannounced maintenance
2692 2010-12-11 16:25:29 <MT`AwAy> genjix: there are other forums if you want to talk to people, just that there's nobody on those other forums
2693 2010-12-11 16:25:29 <MT`AwAy> :D
2694 2010-12-11 16:26:02 <genjix> that's not the point. at least the dns record should have a backup server
2695 2010-12-11 16:26:17 <genjix> which says "scheduled for maintanence. bbs"
2696 2010-12-11 16:26:37 <MT`AwAy> the dns record has a 2 hours ttl
2697 2010-12-11 16:26:45 <MT`AwAy> you can't switch it just like that
2698 2010-12-11 16:26:55 <genjix> right but there's priorities
2699 2010-12-11 16:27:04 <genjix> give the main site priority 0
2700 2010-12-11 16:27:11 <genjix> and then the backup server priority 5
2701 2010-12-11 16:27:12 <MT`AwAy> no, there are no proprities for A records
2702 2010-12-11 16:27:17 <MT`AwAy> only for MX
2703 2010-12-11 16:27:55 <genjix> are you sure?
2704 2010-12-11 16:27:59 <MT`AwAy> yes, I am
2705 2010-12-11 16:28:13 <helmut> why is there gethashespersec when everybody talks about khashes? this is confusing
2706 2010-12-11 16:28:15 <MT`AwAy> I've read RFC1035 quite a few times when I wrote my dns server
2707 2010-12-11 16:28:25 <MT`AwAy> helmut: because it's written as khash/sec in the gui
2708 2010-12-11 16:28:32 <helmut> ahh
2709 2010-12-11 16:28:43 <genjix> ok. why not have a main bitcoin site which redirects to the server?
2710 2010-12-11 16:29:00 <genjix> when it goes down then the main offsite server can redirect to a backup
2711 2010-12-11 16:29:20 <MT`AwAy> genjix: that would require to have two servers, will you pay for that?
2712 2010-12-11 16:29:44 <genjix> i can get a free server that does the job fine on freehostia.com
2713 2010-12-11 16:29:46 <MT`AwAy> also google/etc would save urls on the site and links from google would be down
2714 2010-12-11 16:29:47 <genjix> :p
2715 2010-12-11 16:30:17 <kabo69> MT`AwAy: if the backup server is just a site that says "maintenance, brb" on a static html page I can host it
2716 2010-12-11 16:30:17 <genjix> ah yeah the url in the browser changes... doesn't
2717 2010-12-11 16:30:20 <genjix> it
2718 2010-12-11 16:30:40 <genjix> is there a way to do redirects without changing the url?
2719 2010-12-11 16:30:44 <MT`AwAy> kabo69: I can too, I got many servers in various places
2720 2010-12-11 16:30:54 <MT`AwAy> genjix: not without adding failure points
2721 2010-12-11 16:31:06 <genjix> define failure points
2722 2010-12-11 16:31:10 <kabo69> genjix: a NAT
2723 2010-12-11 16:31:14 <MT`AwAy> genjix: the easier would be to move bitcoin.org itself to a reliable hosting provider
2724 2010-12-11 16:31:24 <genjix> i see
2725 2010-12-11 16:31:31 <helmut> you could update the dns record
2726 2010-12-11 16:31:53 <MT`AwAy> I mean, I've been providing web hosting for over 10 years, and never had any down longer than 10~15 minutes (because of upstream provider usually)
2727 2010-12-11 16:31:54 <genjix> also get a bitcoinforums.org domain would be nice and professional
2728 2010-12-11 16:32:30 <genjix> cool.
2729 2010-12-11 16:32:45 <MT`AwAy> genjix: other problem is you would have to trust whoever hosts the forum
2730 2010-12-11 16:32:45 <genjix> would be nice to get better looking forums too
2731 2010-12-11 16:33:07 <genjix> well it'd just be like now except with the nice domain
2732 2010-12-11 16:33:19 <MT`AwAy> genjix: if you want to improve SMF forums you can help on https://bitcoin.in/forum/ xD
2733 2010-12-11 16:34:07 <genjix> ill look into that
2734 2010-12-11 16:34:33 <genjix> do you have a site/repo for following QBitcoin?
2735 2010-12-11 16:35:32 <MT`AwAy> genjix: won't be open until I releast first alpha and stabilise the code a bit
2736 2010-12-11 16:35:41 <genjix> ok cool
2737 2010-12-11 16:35:50 Zarutian has joined
2738 2010-12-11 16:36:07 <MT`AwAy> (it's on svn)
2739 2010-12-11 16:36:35 <MT`AwAy> right now I'm trying to get ECC to work as it should, somehow I'm not getting the right hashes :(
2740 2010-12-11 16:36:58 <MT`AwAy> s/hashes/public keys/
2741 2010-12-11 16:39:45 <doublec> helmut, you might like to consider contributed to the pool mining service to get a few coins a bit quicker
2742 2010-12-11 16:39:52 <doublec> helmut, (still on the order of a few days though)
2743 2010-12-11 16:54:19 Granttt has left ()
2744 2010-12-11 16:56:11 <Kiba> is bitcoin forum down?
2745 2010-12-11 16:56:20 <ArtForz> yes
2746 2010-12-11 16:56:30 <Kiba> The Downism cult has strike again!
2747 2010-12-11 16:56:31 <TheAncientGoat> The whole site is down
2748 2010-12-11 16:56:39 <Kiba> FSCK!
2749 2010-12-11 16:56:48 <TheAncientGoat> We need a bitX powered site :P
2750 2010-12-11 16:56:56 <Kiba> naw
2751 2010-12-11 16:57:01 <Kiba> we need a distributed forum system
2752 2010-12-11 16:57:05 <Kiba> mirror that can be used
2753 2010-12-11 16:57:18 Granttt has joined
2754 2010-12-11 16:57:27 <Kiba> where is sirus when you need him?
2755 2010-12-11 16:57:47 <doublec> aka usenet
2756 2010-12-11 16:57:59 <Kiba> this is the second time that the forum went down!
2757 2010-12-11 16:58:01 <omglolbbq1> there are already distributed forums
2758 2010-12-11 16:58:06 Granttt has quit ()
2759 2010-12-11 16:58:07 <nathan7> Kiba: he's not very.. I shouldn't be making this joke
2760 2010-12-11 16:58:24 <nathan7> I make too much obvious and lame jokes lately
2761 2010-12-11 16:58:26 Granttt has joined
2762 2010-12-11 16:58:36 <Kiba> usenet is spammed to death
2763 2010-12-11 16:58:46 <omglolbbq1> kiba; osiris
2764 2010-12-11 16:59:07 <Kiba> the downism is getting Annoying
2765 2010-12-11 16:59:19 genjix has left ()
2766 2010-12-11 16:59:24 <Kiba> obscure reference...sucks, omglolbbq1
2767 2010-12-11 16:59:56 <omglolbbq1> what?
2768 2010-12-11 17:00:20 <Kiba> I don't know what the heck you're talking about
2769 2010-12-11 17:00:51 <Bimmerhead> Kiba, osiris is a distributed forum system
2770 2010-12-11 17:00:56 <omglolbbq1> exactly
2771 2010-12-11 17:03:40 cdecker has left ()
2772 2010-12-11 17:04:14 <Kiba> man I am hungry
2773 2010-12-11 17:04:18 <Kiba> after all these hacking and drawing
2774 2010-12-11 17:04:28 <Bimmerhead> maybe the forum is down due to a surge of traffic from PCWorld story
2775 2010-12-11 17:04:48 <Kiba> naw
2776 2010-12-11 17:04:52 <Kiba> it's a DNS problem
2777 2010-12-11 17:05:41 <Kiba> if this happens the third time, I am going to be seriously pissed off
2778 2010-12-11 17:06:23 <ArtForz> third time is enemy action?
2779 2010-12-11 17:06:38 <helmut> doublec: could you tell me more about that?
2780 2010-12-11 17:06:53 <doublec> helmut, see ,,pool
2781 2010-12-11 17:06:53 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
2782 2010-12-11 17:06:53 <Kiba> about that what, helmut
2783 2010-12-11 17:06:54 thrashaholic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2784 2010-12-11 17:07:15 <Bimmerhead> Now I know what Julian Assange feels like.
2785 2010-12-11 17:07:15 <doublec> helmut, basically you run a version of the miner that works with other peoples miners to share the computation task
2786 2010-12-11 17:07:19 <Bimmerhead> except without the two girls
2787 2010-12-11 17:07:23 thrashaholic has joined
2788 2010-12-11 17:07:27 <doublec> helmut, so you get coins faster, but less of them
2789 2010-12-11 17:07:30 <nathan7> gribble: Can I run that as a service on windows?
2790 2010-12-11 17:08:03 gavinandresen has joined
2791 2010-12-11 17:08:21 <Kiba> this is annoying
2792 2010-12-11 17:08:26 <helmut> doublec: thanks
2793 2010-12-11 17:08:27 <Kiba> second time that happens
2794 2010-12-11 17:08:47 <doublec> nathan7, gribble won't answer. he's a bot.
2795 2010-12-11 17:09:02 <nathan7> ffuu
2796 2010-12-11 17:09:33 wizeman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2797 2010-12-11 17:11:30 planetPlosion has joined
2798 2010-12-11 17:12:11 <planetPlosion> what does "Generated (0.14 matures in 87 more blocks)" mean?
2799 2010-12-11 17:12:42 <doublec> planetPlosion, it means you generated 0.14 coins as a result of your mining
2800 2010-12-11 17:12:48 <doublec> planetPlosion, I assume you're part of the pool?
2801 2010-12-11 17:12:51 <Kiba> you have to waits until 87 blocks pass b efore you c an start using 0.14 BTC
2802 2010-12-11 17:13:08 <finnomenon> ;;bc;pool
2803 2010-12-11 17:13:09 <gribble> Error: "bc;pool" is not a valid command.
2804 2010-12-11 17:13:10 <planetPlosion> ok, thought so.  But the coins come later?
2805 2010-12-11 17:13:30 <doublec> yes, it takes 120 or so confirmations before you get the results of a generated block
2806 2010-12-11 17:13:35 <finnomenon> what client are you using Kiba?
2807 2010-12-11 17:13:39 <planetPlosion> good to know, thanks
2808 2010-12-11 17:14:16 <finnomenon> I mean planetPlosion
2809 2010-12-11 17:15:06 <planetPlosion> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
2810 2010-12-11 17:15:10 <planetPlosion> that one
2811 2010-12-11 17:15:13 <Kiba> did anybody emailed sirus?
2812 2010-12-11 17:15:52 <Kiba> whoever his name is?
2813 2010-12-11 17:16:00 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
2814 2010-12-11 17:16:05 <gribble> It's not just you!
2815 2010-12-11 17:19:44 <Kiba> why does this shit happens again?
2816 2010-12-11 17:20:31 <Kiba> when the site is back up, I will be demanding a post-mortem from the server admin
2817 2010-12-11 17:20:35 wizeman has joined
2818 2010-12-11 17:20:39 <Kiba> and what he will do about this so it won't occur again
2819 2010-12-11 17:21:27 <Kiba> seriously, the site content should be SE-PE-RA-TE from the forum
2820 2010-12-11 17:23:21 <planetPlosion> anyone know where the cudart32 dll file would be?
2821 2010-12-11 17:24:44 Sirius_ has joined
2822 2010-12-11 17:25:26 <Sirius_> looks like server unresponsive again
2823 2010-12-11 17:25:54 <Kiba> Sirius_: yes, and it's your fault!
2824 2010-12-11 17:26:19 <Sirius_> :E
2825 2010-12-11 17:26:31 <Sirius_> even ssh doesn't work
2826 2010-12-11 17:26:43 <Kiba> when you're done fixing it, explain why it is unresposnive and what steps you will do so it won't happen again, ever
2827 2010-12-11 17:27:40 <Kiba> why the site went down last time, Sirius_
2828 2010-12-11 17:28:32 planetPlosion has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630])
2829 2010-12-11 17:29:06 <helmut> doublec: isn't bitcoin pooling flawed by design? you could simply patch the client to report double rate...
2830 2010-12-11 17:29:15 <doublec> demanding forum user  is demanding...
2831 2010-12-11 17:29:28 <doublec> helmut, no because the client send back 'best hashes' which the server confirms
2832 2010-12-11 17:29:35 <doublec> it knows if you're sending bogus results
2833 2010-12-11 17:29:41 <helmut> :-)
2834 2010-12-11 17:30:08 <helmut> so the share is distributed to the best hashes?
2835 2010-12-11 17:30:17 <T_X_> doublec: What does someone prevent from patching the client so that any coins it generates are not send to the server?
2836 2010-12-11 17:30:22 <doublec> it's distributed based on the amount you've contributed
2837 2010-12-11 17:30:26 <doublec> (amount of hashes)
2838 2010-12-11 17:30:33 <helmut> nice
2839 2010-12-11 17:30:42 <doublec> T_X_, the client doesn't generate the coins, the server does
2840 2010-12-11 17:30:57 <doublec> T_X_, the client doesn't have all the information to 'steal' the generation
2841 2010-12-11 17:31:10 <doublec> (as I understand it, more details are in the thread about it)
2842 2010-12-11 17:31:25 <doublec> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
2843 2010-12-11 17:31:33 <doublec> which you can't visit right now cos the forum is down...
2844 2010-12-11 17:31:39 <helmut> lol
2845 2010-12-11 17:31:48 <Kiba> Sirius_: I hope you will get the site backup!
2846 2010-12-11 17:32:18 <T_X_> doublec: aha? okay? if so, that'd be interesting. I'll have to read that post when bitcoin.org is back up again :)
2847 2010-12-11 17:32:25 <doublec> helmut, T_X_, the pooled stuff is experimental and there may be flaws. Part of running this is to find any out. So if you do find something, let us know.
2848 2010-12-11 17:32:53 <T_X_> doublec: sure, but I just got interested in the concept of the pooled generation for now :)
2849 2010-12-11 17:33:12 <engla> it should be possible to branch the whole bitcoin universe and disregard blocks created by others
2850 2010-12-11 17:33:14 <T_X_> (bc. I thought so far, that this would be impossible)
2851 2010-12-11 17:33:15 <ArtForz> well, I have to check the server code, but I think cheater detection is somewhat easy to game
2852 2010-12-11 17:33:22 <helmut> doublec: well I was just thinking about it theoretically.
2853 2010-12-11 17:33:28 <helmut> doublec: I actually like the idea.
2854 2010-12-11 17:33:34 <engla> of course, after that point you can't cross-transfer
2855 2010-12-11 17:34:09 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2856 2010-12-11 17:34:10 TheAncientGoat_ has joined
2857 2010-12-11 17:34:25 <ArtForz> yes, creating a not-quite-bitcoin chain is easy, see testnet
2858 2010-12-11 17:35:11 <doublec> people have accidentally forked their own chain and were generating coins thinking they were getting rich until they tried to sell them
2859 2010-12-11 17:35:17 <ArtForz> yep
2860 2010-12-11 17:35:18 <brucewagner> Any word on Bitcoin.org site?  Please email and let me know email@bitcoinme.com
2861 2010-12-11 17:35:29 <ArtForz> and completely worthless unless you manage to convince a significant amount of people why your chain is better than bitcoins main chain
2862 2010-12-11 17:35:37 <engla> so only the community decides what's a bitcoin fortune and what is just a pseudo fortune
2863 2010-12-11 17:35:52 <ArtForz> the market does, yes
2864 2010-12-11 17:35:56 <engla> well say after a big conflict, the bitcoin universe can split into X and Y networks
2865 2010-12-11 17:36:09 <engla> or maybe using the new hash function or not etc
2866 2010-12-11 17:36:16 <doublec> I run a coin verification service...if you send all your bitcoins to me I'll verify them...honest
2867 2010-12-11 17:36:57 <ArtForz> yes, it'd be effectively creating another currency
2868 2010-12-11 17:37:31 <ArtForz> and enable double-spending of old coins if there's people trading on both networks
2869 2010-12-11 17:37:35 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin
2870 2010-12-11 17:37:35 <gribble> Huh?
2871 2010-12-11 17:37:43 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
2872 2010-12-11 17:37:47 <engla> ArtForz: ah, exactly
2873 2010-12-11 17:37:48 <gribble> It's not just you!
2874 2010-12-11 17:38:00 <Kiba> wee
2875 2010-12-11 17:38:08 <Kiba> wonder what sirus is doing
2876 2010-12-11 17:38:19 <engla> ArtForz: I guess it can also be used for legitimate purposes, i.e you create a totally new chain for a computer game currency?
2877 2010-12-11 17:38:25 <ArtForz> yup
2878 2010-12-11 17:38:39 <ArtForz> but why would anyone want to use that instead of bitcoin?
2879 2010-12-11 17:39:06 <doublec> so they can generate lots of coins for the in game currency easily
2880 2010-12-11 17:39:10 <ArtForz> for DNSchain/TimestampChain it's kinda obvious why they'd have value
2881 2010-12-11 17:39:34 <ArtForz> online game = central server ,might as well go with central currency
2882 2010-12-11 17:39:47 <doublec> true
2883 2010-12-11 17:40:52 <Sirius_> Kiba: rebooting server, talking with hosting provider
2884 2010-12-11 17:41:15 <Granttt> I develop and operate for money "skill-games" (the fun term for gambling that isn't totally illegal) in secondlife, i see advantage of being able to switch transactions to bitcoin in that in case of secondlife going down or for some reason me getting banned from SL i'd have the safety of not losing my cash
2885 2010-12-11 17:41:25 <Sirius_> strange that http and ssh stop working but ping and loads are ok
2886 2010-12-11 17:41:39 <Kiba> it's rackspace, isn't it?
2887 2010-12-11 17:41:56 <ArtForz> actually it looks like http is still somewhat working, but SLOW
2888 2010-12-11 17:42:01 <Sirius_> yes
2889 2010-12-11 17:42:12 <doublec> Granttt, yes bitcoin is good for that sort of thing
2890 2010-12-11 17:42:17 <ArtForz> forum DB is either down or also VERY slow
2891 2010-12-11 17:42:25 <doublec> Granttt, there's a few bitcoin gambling sites around
2892 2010-12-11 17:42:44 <ArtForz> and of course theres DT
2893 2010-12-11 17:43:01 <doublec> yes
2894 2010-12-11 17:43:28 <ArtForz> massive multiplayer online gambling, combining addictions is fun!
2895 2010-12-11 17:43:49 <Kiba> Once, I finish my JStet project
2896 2010-12-11 17:43:57 <Kiba> I will be working on a virtual world called kibabase
2897 2010-12-11 17:44:17 <Kiba> or maybe something else crazy
2898 2010-12-11 17:44:19 <sjaak> doublec: is the pool down?
2899 2010-12-11 17:44:33 <Kiba> sjaak: no
2900 2010-12-11 17:44:41 <doublec> sjaak, nope
2901 2010-12-11 17:44:42 <sjaak> can't connect anymore :/
2902 2010-12-11 17:44:55 <doublec> sjaak, pm me your ip address
2903 2010-12-11 17:45:06 <doublec> I banned someone's IP
2904 2010-12-11 17:45:10 <doublec> want to make sure it's not you
2905 2010-12-11 17:49:17 <tcatm> Sirius_: Is bitcoin.org running on a VPS or rootserver?
2906 2010-12-11 17:49:36 <Sirius_> vps
2907 2010-12-11 17:49:42 <Sirius_> up again
2908 2010-12-11 17:50:35 <tcatm> Looks similiar to the problem I had with bitcoincharts (also VPS). Whenever the server ran out of memory no userspace programs could be startert anymore but ping and running connections were working.
2909 2010-12-11 17:53:23 <Sirius_> it could be a memory issue
2910 2010-12-11 17:55:46 <Kiba> if it is a memory problem, how can you fix it, Sirius_
2911 2010-12-11 17:56:33 <Sirius_> upscale server
2912 2010-12-11 17:56:42 <Sirius_> somebody proposed moving from apache to lighttpd
2913 2010-12-11 17:56:48 <Kiba> basically upgrade it, eh?
2914 2010-12-11 17:57:09 <Sirius_> yes, more memory
2915 2010-12-11 17:57:18 <Kiba> so, we are growing
2916 2010-12-11 17:57:25 <Kiba> how much does it cost each month?
2917 2010-12-11 17:59:05 <tcatm> how much memory does the server have?
2918 2010-12-11 17:59:28 <Sirius_> Kiba: about 20$ + bandwidth
2919 2010-12-11 17:59:53 <Sirius_> 512MB
2920 2010-12-11 18:00:00 <Sirius_> the next grade is 1024MB, costs double
2921 2010-12-11 18:00:36 <Kiba> basically, 200 BTC each month
2922 2010-12-11 18:01:19 <Kiba> Sirius_: thought of mirroring the forum database?
2923 2010-12-11 18:01:33 TheAncientGoat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2924 2010-12-11 18:01:48 <finnomenon> no pool mining for me because I can't get cmake 2.8 installed on lenny
2925 2010-12-11 18:02:39 <doublec> what version of cmake do you have?
2926 2010-12-11 18:02:45 <finnomenon> 2.6
2927 2010-12-11 18:02:53 <doublec> you can pass a command line switch to make it work
2928 2010-12-11 18:03:10 <finnomenon> I'll see if I can find it
2929 2010-12-11 18:03:20 <doublec> -Wno-dev or something like that
2930 2010-12-11 18:03:25 <finnomenon> thanks
2931 2010-12-11 18:16:25 <Kiba> Sirius_: you might need to upgrade the server, at least temporary
2932 2010-12-11 18:16:28 <Kiba> we might get dugg
2933 2010-12-11 18:16:47 <Kiba> http://digg.com/news/technology/could_the_wikileaks_scandal_lead_to_new_virtual_currency
2934 2010-12-11 18:17:49 <tcatm> A better temporary solution might be to ask ne0futur for storing the static pages on a CDN.
2935 2010-12-11 18:18:09 <Sirius_> upgrading takes about 5min - 1h
2936 2010-12-11 18:18:38 <Sirius_> last time was when we got slashdotted, took 1h
2937 2010-12-11 18:20:01 <xelister> helmut: buuuulshiiit
2938 2010-12-11 18:20:16 <xelister> helmut: you are mining on CPU?
2939 2010-12-11 18:20:19 <xelister> are you crazy
2940 2010-12-11 18:20:40 <xelister> am I late to make fun of helmut's minining on cpu and claiming 2 Ghash ? ;)
2941 2010-12-11 18:20:48 * Kiba is reluntant to start a new bounty for a distributed forum system with bitcoins as anti-spam measure
2942 2010-12-11 18:21:16 <xelister> Kiba: if something then I can implement it (best, in begining of 2011 / bussy now)
2943 2010-12-11 18:23:47 <Sirius_> yeah, mysqld crashed: 17:18 Out of memory: kill process 20321 (mysqld) score 209813 or a child
2944 2010-12-11 18:23:54 <Sirius_> Killed process 20321 (mysqld)
2945 2010-12-11 18:24:05 <ArtForz> sounds like oom
2946 2010-12-11 18:24:28 <Kiba> we're growing like weeds!
2947 2010-12-11 18:24:39 tcatm has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2948 2010-12-11 18:24:43 tcatm has joined
2949 2010-12-11 18:24:44 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
2950 2010-12-11 18:24:44 tcatm has joined
2951 2010-12-11 18:25:03 <ArtForz> lets hope so
2952 2010-12-11 18:25:08 <Sirius_> didn't know mysqld is killed when it's low on memory
2953 2010-12-11 18:25:29 <ArtForz> selected at random by the oom killer I guess
2954 2010-12-11 18:25:56 <Kiba> I guess it's time to upgrade
2955 2010-12-11 18:26:35 <Sirius_> yeah, that's the way to go now
2956 2010-12-11 18:28:01 <Kiba> what happens the last time, Sirius_ we crash..not this crash
2957 2010-12-11 18:28:20 <Sirius_> ?
2958 2010-12-11 18:28:36 <Kiba> the last crash
2959 2010-12-11 18:28:41 <Kiba> what was it? DNS problem?
2960 2010-12-11 18:29:22 <Sirius_> was it around December 1
2961 2010-12-11 18:30:00 maximi89 has joined
2962 2010-12-11 18:30:01 <Sirius_> there are multiple oom errors in the log around then, killing apache or mysqld
2963 2010-12-11 18:30:36 <Kiba> memory
2964 2010-12-11 18:30:42 <Sirius_> yes
2965 2010-12-11 18:30:52 <Kiba> did ya upgrade last time?
2966 2010-12-11 18:31:09 tcatm has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2967 2010-12-11 18:31:12 tcatm has joined
2968 2010-12-11 18:31:13 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
2969 2010-12-11 18:31:13 tcatm has joined
2970 2010-12-11 18:31:37 <Rhonda> helmut: Let me check, I'll build it again on a different system. :)
2971 2010-12-11 18:32:49 acous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2972 2010-12-11 18:34:50 <Sirius_> Kiba: no, didn't have time to investigate it that time, and forgot about it later. Sorry for that.
2973 2010-12-11 18:37:25 dwdollar has left ()
2974 2010-12-11 18:37:55 <Sirius_> server down for resizing
2975 2010-12-11 18:38:34 <Sirius_> maybe somebody can tweet that so people don't panic :P
2976 2010-12-11 18:38:57 <Kiba> down for resizing
2977 2010-12-11 18:39:00 <Kiba> memory?
2978 2010-12-11 18:39:02 <Kiba> meh
2979 2010-12-11 18:39:04 <Kiba> upgrade
2980 2010-12-11 18:39:04 <Sirius_> yes
2981 2010-12-11 18:39:59 <Kiba> there should be a script that tell you to upgrade the forum
2982 2010-12-11 18:45:13 <Sirius_> resize complete
2983 2010-12-11 18:46:42 <ArtForz> wow, thats pretty bad
2984 2010-12-11 18:46:53 <Kiba> sometime
2985 2010-12-11 18:47:11 <Kiba> bitcoin hashtag is appended to wikileak tweet that have nothing to do with bitcoin
2986 2010-12-11 18:47:26 * Kiba tweeted that the site is backup
2987 2010-12-11 18:47:27 <ArtForz> either you server is taking ages to boot or the VM system used sucks ;)
2988 2010-12-11 18:47:54 <Kiba> there should be a bitcoin status twitte/identi.ca account
2989 2010-12-11 18:48:34 <Sirius_> ArtForz: 8 min bad?
2990 2010-12-11 18:49:14 <ArtForz> for a simple migration w/ ram increase? yea
2991 2010-12-11 18:49:16 ben-abuya has joined
2992 2010-12-11 18:49:42 <Sirius_> I think +1h was bad :P
2993 2010-12-11 18:51:06 <ArtForz> friend of mine owns a datacenter doing mostly cage/rack colo but also some dedicated and VPS
2994 2010-12-11 18:51:51 <ArtForz> migrating a VM to larger image takes exactly as much time as reboot
2995 2010-12-11 18:52:41 <Sirius_> that would make sense
2996 2010-12-11 18:53:41 <ArtForz> of course they're also more of the "if you have to ask, look for a cheaper place" kind
2997 2010-12-11 18:57:21 <Rhonda> helmut: It was the boost 1.40 packages
2998 2010-12-11 19:05:16 <Rhonda> helmut: … and it's … "interesting". bitcoind doesn't link in *any* boost libraries in the resulting binary?
2999 2010-12-11 19:05:18 <davux> http://www.osnews.com/comments/24125
3000 2010-12-11 19:05:35 <davux> Rhonda: are you debian's Rhonda?
3001 2010-12-11 19:06:37 <Rhonda> And you are the irssi-xmpp person. :)
3002 2010-12-11 19:07:05 <davux> ;)
3003 2010-12-11 19:07:19 <davux> Rhonda: FYI, http://gitorious.org/bitcoim/
3004 2010-12-11 19:07:26 <davux> it's a small world
3005 2010-12-11 19:07:47 <Rhonda> the free software world? indeed.
3006 2010-12-11 19:07:55 <davux> (i don't recommend to use it yet, though)
3007 2010-12-11 19:08:15 <Rhonda> I travelled to the openSUSE conference just to find out that a former study collegue is a central novell employee responsible for openSUSE
3008 2010-12-11 19:08:34 <davux> funny
3009 2010-12-11 19:10:16 <davux> bitcoIM is not in a usable state yet, and I don't want to care about migration in case of design change (e.g. in the database), but if you like alpha software you can test it
3010 2010-12-11 19:10:56 <davux> i think mobile device users will be interested in it
3011 2010-12-11 19:15:08 <Kiba> bitcoin instant messaging?
3012 2010-12-11 19:16:51 <davux> yes Kiba
3013 2010-12-11 19:17:04 <davux> you add a bitcoin add as an IM buddy
3014 2010-12-11 19:18:11 <Kiba> interesting
3015 2010-12-11 19:18:15 <Kiba> why would I want to use it?
3016 2010-12-11 19:18:17 <davux> and then you can chat to them, say e.g. "pay 100"
3017 2010-12-11 19:18:29 <davux> if you can't run a bitcoin client
3018 2010-12-11 19:18:30 <Kiba> oh
3019 2010-12-11 19:18:51 <Kiba> so it's a way to pay bitcoin over IRC
3020 2010-12-11 19:18:56 <Kiba> now that would be an interesting project
3021 2010-12-11 19:19:01 <Kiba> paying bitcoin over IRC
3022 2010-12-11 19:20:05 <johndrinkwater> so the gateway gets your wallet?
3023 2010-12-11 19:20:05 <davux> you could, with bitcoIM + bitlbee
3024 2010-12-11 19:20:18 <davux> johndrinkwater: yes, it's like mtgox or mybitcoin
3025 2010-12-11 19:20:31 <davux> johndrinkwater: actually you get part of its
3026 2010-12-11 19:20:38 <johndrinkwater> mhm
3027 2010-12-11 19:20:52 <davux> it's an additionnal set of addresses you have
3028 2010-12-11 19:21:28 <ArtForz> btw, another interesting quad 5970 setup: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
3029 2010-12-11 19:22:03 <davux> i plan to run an instance of bitcoIM at bitco.im, but it's free software so you can run your own instance
3030 2010-12-11 19:23:47 <Kiba> this peter guy
3031 2010-12-11 19:23:50 <Kiba> need to write better
3032 2010-12-11 19:23:57 <Kiba> I don't undrstand half of the thing he say
3033 2010-12-11 19:25:42 maximi89 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3034 2010-12-11 19:44:11 xelister_ has joined
3035 2010-12-11 19:45:33 <helmut> Rhonda: yeah. I compiled it without backporting
3036 2010-12-11 19:45:53 <helmut> Rhonda: if you fix one (broken) header it compiles cleanly against 1.35
3037 2010-12-11 19:46:38 <helmut> Rhonda: boots is for large parts a template library. that means the actual implementation is contained in the headers. see it as static linking
3038 2010-12-11 19:46:57 <Rhonda> ahah
3039 2010-12-11 19:47:48 <helmut> I'm thinking about creating headless packages for lenny. ;-)
3040 2010-12-11 19:47:57 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3041 2010-12-11 19:48:04 <Rhonda> \o/
3042 2010-12-11 19:48:14 <helmut> you'd want them?
3043 2010-12-11 19:48:24 <Rhonda> Create it for unstable and upload it to lenny-backports-sloppy :P
3044 2010-12-11 19:48:41 <helmut> that would conflict with Jonas ITP.
3045 2010-12-11 19:49:11 <helmut> and you cannot create a source package that builds both in sid and lenny.
3046 2010-12-11 19:49:23 <Rhonda> He stated that he welcomes co-maintainers, and it's in collab-maint :P
3047 2010-12-11 19:49:50 <Rhonda> Right, but this is git we are talking about. Branch it.
3048 2010-12-11 19:50:04 <helmut> did I mention that I hate cdbs?
3049 2010-12-11 19:50:14 <Rhonda> Are you a DD or are you a chicken? :)
3050 2010-12-11 19:50:20 <helmut> chicken
3051 2010-12-11 19:51:00 <Rhonda> pffft
3052 2010-12-11 19:51:27 <helmut> I will first try to get openvpn-auth-radius in. one thing at a tim.
3053 2010-12-11 19:55:49 <helmut> could someone remind me how I can speed up the bootstrap of a node if I already have one bootstraped?
3054 2010-12-11 19:56:13 <Rhonda> a
3055 2010-12-11 19:56:14 <Rhonda> ah
3056 2010-12-11 19:56:40 <Rhonda> does bitcoind work on amd64?
3057 2010-12-11 19:57:42 <helmut> it's little endian :-)
3058 2010-12-11 19:58:10 <ArtForz> yes
3059 2010-12-11 19:58:12 <ArtForz> so does bitcoin
3060 2010-12-11 19:59:31 <Rhonda> ah, it stats to fetch its blocks. good
3061 2010-12-11 20:01:16 <helmut> what keywords should I look for in the forums?
3062 2010-12-11 20:02:11 <helmut> yesterday one guy posted a tarball. I can't remeber that one.
3063 2010-12-11 20:13:35 <davux> does anyone know a way to get like 10 BTC? I have like 1.40 and I'd like to try and invest on mtgox, just for the fun
3064 2010-12-11 20:13:53 <davux> but there's a minimum required
3065 2010-12-11 20:14:28 <davux> and the faucet doesn't help a lot ^^
3066 2010-12-11 20:15:42 <tcatm> Just enter a higher value and cancel the "not enough funds" order after the trade.
3067 2010-12-11 20:18:42 <helmut> uhm. http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoin_miners claims that the -4way miner is either performance 0.5 or 2. any idea why it would have about 1 for me?
3068 2010-12-11 20:19:04 <ArtForz> cpu?
3069 2010-12-11 20:19:10 <tcatm> helmut: What CPU do you mine one^U
3070 2010-12-11 20:19:20 <helmut> athlon 64 x2 3800+
3071 2010-12-11 20:19:33 <davux> tcatm: a higher value of what?
3072 2010-12-11 20:19:42 <ArtForz> 4way should be slower on that
3073 2010-12-11 20:19:47 <tcatm> davux: BTC
3074 2010-12-11 20:20:03 <davux> oh, i understand
3075 2010-12-11 20:20:04 <helmut> ArtForz: a bit, but not 0.5
3076 2010-12-11 20:20:13 <davux> you mean i pretend i want to sell 10 BTC
3077 2010-12-11 20:20:17 <tcatm> yep
3078 2010-12-11 20:20:22 <ArtForz> well, it' snot quite as bad as older intels, but still negative gains
3079 2010-12-11 20:20:29 <davux> even though i only own 1.40
3080 2010-12-11 20:20:32 <ArtForz> 4way only provides gains on K10 based AMDs and intel i-series
3081 2010-12-11 20:20:50 <ArtForz> and of course their opteron and xeon counterparts
3082 2010-12-11 20:21:06 <davux> i hope i won't get ruined
3083 2010-12-11 20:21:25 <helmut> ArtForz: thanks for explanation
3084 2010-12-11 20:21:31 <davux> i'm selling ALL of my bitcoins hahaha
3085 2010-12-11 20:21:44 <davux> well my bitcoin and a half
3086 2010-12-11 20:21:56 <tcatm> Actually now is probably a bad time to sell.
3087 2010-12-11 20:21:57 <davux> i'm too low for deserving an 's'
3088 2010-12-11 20:22:02 <ArtForz> yup
3089 2010-12-11 20:22:12 <davux> why?
3090 2010-12-11 20:22:19 <ArtForz> I expect price to change soon
3091 2010-12-11 20:22:40 <ArtForz> in what direction I'm not sure
3092 2010-12-11 20:23:05 <davux> how do you guys know that? it always has been a mystery to me
3093 2010-12-11 20:23:27 <davux> oh because it's been high for a while, right?
3094 2010-12-11 20:23:32 <ArtForz> stagnant prices, large bid/ask spread, low volume
3095 2010-12-11 20:24:16 <omglolbbq1> wow bitcoin is popular! 5 diggs xD
3096 2010-12-11 20:24:29 <ArtForz> it's more of a distributed self-fulfilling prophecy/meme I think
3097 2010-12-11 20:24:37 <davux> haha
3098 2010-12-11 20:24:44 [Noodles] has quit (Changing host)
3099 2010-12-11 20:24:44 [Noodles] has joined
3100 2010-12-11 20:24:46 <tcatm> Yep, especially with this small community... :)
3101 2010-12-11 20:25:17 <davux> ok, i'll listen to your advice
3102 2010-12-11 20:25:25 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3103 2010-12-11 20:25:27 <davux> because in my case it won'tinfluence the market anyway ;)
3104 2010-12-11 20:25:45 <ArtForz> a few traders "know" this and get nervous, on starts selling/buying, a few more follow, small boom/bust as it's such a small market
3105 2010-12-11 20:27:18 <ArtForz> pretty much the same situation in any small speculative market with a bunch of hobby traders
3106 2010-12-11 20:27:18 <davux> how much can i expect to earn if i sell 1.40 and buy bitcoins later with the mtgox dollars i'll have?
3107 2010-12-11 20:27:43 <davux> 1.45?
3108 2010-12-11 20:27:47 <davux> :D
3109 2010-12-11 20:27:52 <ArtForz> who knows
3110 2010-12-11 20:29:27 <ArtForz> right now it looks more like down, decent ask volume in 0.22-0.23 range while bids are rather thin
3111 2010-12-11 20:30:18 <davux> i'll wait until it reaches .22 and then sell my fortune
3112 2010-12-11 20:30:36 <davux> and buy again when it's .24 haha
3113 2010-12-11 20:30:39 <davux> woooo
3114 2010-12-11 20:30:40 <davux> :D
3115 2010-12-11 20:30:54 <ArtForz> are you trying to make a loss?
3116 2010-12-11 20:31:49 <tcatm> You shouldn't look at the price but rather on bid/ask for when to buy/sell.
3117 2010-12-11 20:31:57 <ArtForz> yup
3118 2010-12-11 20:32:39 <Granttt> buy high, sell higher ;)
3119 2010-12-11 20:33:14 <ArtForz> except he's selling high, buying higher
3120 2010-12-11 20:33:22 <ArtForz> sounds like a underpants gnome plan, 1. sell low. 2. buy high 3. ??? 4. profit!
3121 2010-12-11 20:33:45 <davux> tcatm: omg, i know nothing about that stuff
3122 2010-12-11 20:33:57 <davux> oops
3123 2010-12-11 20:33:58 <davux> right
3124 2010-12-11 20:34:00 <Granttt> that stimulates the market, the 3. comes from someone else doing the same thing ;)
3125 2010-12-11 20:34:00 <tcatm> davux: Do you know my charts page?
3126 2010-12-11 20:34:37 <Rhonda> how much traffic does bitcoind usually need?
3127 2010-12-11 20:34:39 <davux> i don't think so tcatm
3128 2010-12-11 20:34:49 <ArtForz> not much at all
3129 2010-12-11 20:35:12 <ArtForz> after the intial block download pretty close to nothing
3130 2010-12-11 20:35:13 <tcatm> davux: it's bitcoincharts.com and provides a good overview of the markets
3131 2010-12-11 20:38:43 <davux> wow
3132 2010-12-11 20:38:53 <helmut> Rhonda: sorry I was wrong!
3133 2010-12-11 20:39:00 <davux> i'm sure it contains all the necessary information
3134 2010-12-11 20:39:12 <davux> provided you know how to use it
3135 2010-12-11 20:39:25 <helmut> Rhonda: the real reson for why bitcoin does not seem to link boost is that it *really* links static. -Wl,-Bstatic that is.
3136 2010-12-11 20:39:31 <helmut> Rhonda: see makefile.unix
3137 2010-12-11 20:40:16 <Rhonda> ouch
3138 2010-12-11 20:40:31 <Rhonda> that's one thing we definitely need to get rid of in the packaging :)
3139 2010-12-11 20:41:29 <helmut> indeed
3140 2010-12-11 20:49:10 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3141 2010-12-11 20:50:56 davex__ has joined
3142 2010-12-11 20:52:27 Granttt has quit ()
3143 2010-12-11 20:53:59 acous has joined
3144 2010-12-11 20:55:56 altamic has joined
3145 2010-12-11 20:58:25 Granttt has joined
3146 2010-12-11 21:00:02 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3147 2010-12-11 21:04:30 <helmut> uhh. building on fedora isn't easy. they ship ssl without ecdsa...
3148 2010-12-11 21:07:08 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3149 2010-12-11 21:10:07 lolcat has joined
3150 2010-12-11 21:16:10 ben-abuya has left ()
3151 2010-12-11 21:16:19 <helmut> wow. once I have my own node to connect to bootstrap is *much* faster than using irc. :-)
3152 2010-12-11 21:19:28 <xelister_> got to love atishit
3153 2010-12-11 21:19:49 <xelister_> now my mouse cursor ix x20 higher then normal and looks like a small pattern of part of arrow
3154 2010-12-11 21:20:00 <xelister_> moving around doesnt fix it. on all VTs
3155 2010-12-11 21:20:42 Azetab has joined
3156 2010-12-11 21:22:25 altamic has joined
3157 2010-12-11 21:31:13 <lolcat> helmut: I assume it should be
3158 2010-12-11 21:32:24 <helmut> and it decreases network load.
3159 2010-12-11 21:33:02 <davux> tcatm: when i click "sell bitcoins", the message says "Selling..." and stays this way
3160 2010-12-11 21:33:55 <davux> any idea why?
3161 2010-12-11 21:34:25 <davux> ifit canhelp,i set a higher price that thedefault one
3162 2010-12-11 21:34:40 <davux> rhaa my space bar must be dirty
3163 2010-12-11 21:35:04 <helmut> ArtForz: I now tried a intel xeon cpu both with normal and 4way.
3164 2010-12-11 21:35:11 <helmut> ArtForz: no noticable difference!?
3165 2010-12-11 21:37:01 <tcatm> davux: That's a known error in mtgox. Happens from time to time.
3166 2010-12-11 21:37:04 <helmut> I suppose I'm doing it wrong. ;-)
3167 2010-12-11 21:37:36 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3168 2010-12-11 21:38:46 <helmut> well it probably doesn't support it either.
3169 2010-12-11 21:39:03 <xelister_> helmut: cpu mining is like taking a bath with a tea spoon. Sure you can do it, but it wastes time and money and is fucking insane ;)
3170 2010-12-11 21:39:48 <xelister_> helmut: cpu mining is like taking a bath with a tea spoon - to avoid paying for the room with bath and shower in a hotel. For 3 months.  Sure you can do it, but it wastes time and money and is fucking insane ;)
3171 2010-12-11 21:40:21 <helmut> xelister_: I'm still trying to find out how this all works.
3172 2010-12-11 21:41:30 <helmut> xelister_: and a gpu miner is like a cup then?
3173 2010-12-11 21:41:43 <xelister_> gpu miner mines typically around x100 faster
3174 2010-12-11 21:41:57 <xelister_> good card gives 160000 khash (160 M)
3175 2010-12-11 21:42:12 <xelister_> and best card gives 530 M (600 when overclocked)
3176 2010-12-11 21:42:21 mtgox has joined
3177 2010-12-11 21:42:24 puddinpop has joined
3178 2010-12-11 21:42:35 <helmut> lspci says nvidia G84
3179 2010-12-11 21:43:21 <xelister_> nvidias suck, buy a radeon for 100 usd
3180 2010-12-11 21:43:46 nelisky has joined
3181 2010-12-11 21:43:47 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3182 2010-12-11 21:43:47 <helmut> uhh. I first need to mine that money. :-p
3183 2010-12-11 21:44:06 Granttt has joined
3184 2010-12-11 21:45:10 <davux> any good way to mine with a laptop?
3185 2010-12-11 21:45:26 <helmut> probably not
3186 2010-12-11 21:45:48 <helmut> you could try participating in a pool
3187 2010-12-11 21:47:19 <xelister_> helmut: mining does not return 100% of gpu buying
3188 2010-12-11 21:47:27 <xelister_> nowdays
3189 2010-12-11 21:48:07 <helmut> and we're not even talking about electricty
3190 2010-12-11 21:55:25 Granttt has quit ()
3191 2010-12-11 22:00:48 Granttt has joined
3192 2010-12-11 22:04:56 redengin has joined
3193 2010-12-11 22:07:08 fetma has joined
3194 2010-12-11 22:08:24 fetma has quit (Client Quit)
3195 2010-12-11 22:11:31 phuzion has joined
3196 2010-12-11 22:18:53 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3197 2010-12-11 22:19:15 Granttt has joined
3198 2010-12-11 22:24:23 theymos has joined
3199 2010-12-11 22:26:02 <omglolbbq1> anyone tried new pooled OpenCL miner?
3200 2010-12-11 22:29:47 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3201 2010-12-11 22:34:34 Azetab has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3202 2010-12-11 22:36:18 <xelister_> omglolbbq1: why use poole opencl miner instead just opencl miner
3203 2010-12-11 22:36:38 <omglolbbq1> because i like? :P
3204 2010-12-11 22:37:49 <xelister_> ok ;) but das it have any proti
3205 2010-12-11 22:37:52 <xelister_> profits over normal
3206 2010-12-11 22:40:14 <omglolbbq1> hm not realy
3207 2010-12-11 22:40:25 <omglolbbq1> i get coins faster, but fewer
3208 2010-12-11 22:40:40 <omglolbbq1> but on average it should be the same
3209 2010-12-11 22:41:39 <Kiba> somebody is refactoring the bitcoin codebase
3210 2010-12-11 22:42:07 <helmut> just looking at the pool mining repo: the opencl miner seems to be a bit more optimized than the cuda miner. it saves 3 sha rounds %-)
3211 2010-12-11 22:42:11 <Kiba> http://bitbucket.org/hsoft/bitcoin-clean
3212 2010-12-11 22:43:45 <omglolbbq1> helmut, if it works xD
3213 2010-12-11 22:44:40 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
3214 2010-12-11 22:44:47 <helmut> omglolbbq1: it was more like "there is an opportunity to tweak the cuda miner a bit".
3215 2010-12-11 22:44:54 darrob has joined
3216 2010-12-11 22:45:08 <helmut> omglolbbq1: of course profiling would be required to see whether it helps.
3217 2010-12-11 22:46:00 <omglolbbq1> well so far it's less efficient for me @ 0 khash xD
3218 2010-12-11 22:46:54 omglolbbq1 is now known as KwukDuck
3219 2010-12-11 22:47:28 <kabo69> Hi!
3220 2010-12-11 22:47:53 <kabo69> can somebody point to some information about how the hashing is done?
3221 2010-12-11 22:48:03 <kabo69> I don't understand what is being hashed
3222 2010-12-11 22:48:21 <Kiba> did you read the FAQ?
3223 2010-12-11 22:48:42 <kabo69> I found this: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block_hashing_algorithm
3224 2010-12-11 22:49:32 <theymos> What don't you understand about it?
3225 2010-12-11 22:50:16 <kabo69> to generate a hash there has to be input
3226 2010-12-11 22:50:18 <kabo69> what is the input
3227 2010-12-11 22:50:27 <theymos> The input is listed in the table on that page.
3228 2010-12-11 22:51:44 <kabo69> ok, just concatenated together?
3229 2010-12-11 22:53:17 <theymos> I don't know how it's arranged. You can look at getwork output to see.
3230 2010-12-11 22:53:36 <kabo69> ok, thanks :)
3231 2010-12-11 22:53:40 <theymos> Probably it is concatenated.
3232 2010-12-11 22:54:12 <tcatm> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/blob/master/main.cpp#L3332
3233 2010-12-11 22:55:17 <kabo69> tcatm: thanks
3234 2010-12-11 22:55:53 <tcatm> notice that the last 32bits of merklehash are in the second half of the data
3235 2010-12-11 22:56:53 <tcatm> Everything before that weill be pre-hashed.
3236 2010-12-11 22:57:00 <tcatm> s/ei/i/
3237 2010-12-11 23:05:02 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3238 2010-12-11 23:25:26 <KwukDuck> anyone knows  if ati x1950 cards have opencl?
3239 2010-12-11 23:26:39 <tcatm> Nope. Doesn't support OpenCL.
3240 2010-12-11 23:26:51 <KwukDuck> ah i was afraid so
3241 2010-12-11 23:27:14 <KwukDuck> trash it is then... :) tought i might have some good use for the old fella
3242 2010-12-11 23:27:56 Hogofwar has joined
3243 2010-12-11 23:28:00 <Hogofwar> Hello
3244 2010-12-11 23:29:00 <helmut> damn i should have found this one earlier: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitbot it is even more helpful than the extra faq!
3245 2010-12-11 23:32:22 <Hogofwar> ;worldpop
3246 2010-12-11 23:32:31 <Hogofwar> no?
3247 2010-12-11 23:32:33 <Hogofwar> Damn
3248 2010-12-11 23:32:37 <theymos> bitbot is dead, unfortunately.
3249 2010-12-11 23:32:49 <Hogofwar> I was expecting gribble to reply :(
3250 2010-12-11 23:33:02 <Hogofwar> ;bc,worldpop
3251 2010-12-11 23:33:07 <Hogofwar> meh
3252 2010-12-11 23:33:12 <Hogofwar> Anyway
3253 2010-12-11 23:33:27 <OneFixt> ;bc,stats
3254 2010-12-11 23:33:30 <Hogofwar> What got added in release 0.3.18 apart from better account features
3255 2010-12-11 23:33:32 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
3256 2010-12-11 23:33:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97094 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1689 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13615.76281718
3257 2010-12-11 23:33:40 <OneFixt> ;;bc,worldpop
3258 2010-12-11 23:33:40 <gribble> Error: "bc,worldpop" is not a valid command.
3259 2010-12-11 23:33:50 <Hogofwar> What got added in release 0.3.18 apart from better account features
3260 2010-12-11 23:33:54 <Hogofwar> ?
3261 2010-12-11 23:34:52 <donpdonp> Hogofwar: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2162.0
3262 2010-12-11 23:35:03 <tcatm> There was a (more or less) serious bug in wallet handling that got fixed.
3263 2010-12-11 23:38:16 <Hogofwar> oh, thanks
3264 2010-12-11 23:40:27 <helmut> is there some money anonymizing service? I mean like you post a (new) address, and pay it a few coins. it would pay back other coins and thus disassociate the coins with your first address.
3265 2010-12-11 23:40:48 <helmut> the only information that would remain is time based (or known to said service).
3266 2010-12-11 23:41:25 <theymos> There are a couple of services like that, but they don't mix coins properly, so you'll probably just get back your own coins.
3267 2010-12-11 23:41:56 <theymos> http://bitcoinlaundry.com/
3268 2010-12-11 23:42:10 <helmut> thanks.
3269 2010-12-11 23:42:25 <theymos> You're better off using MyBitcoin if you want to mix coins.
3270 2010-12-11 23:43:05 <nanotube> or you could just use mtgox
3271 2010-12-11 23:43:17 <nanotube> mtgox probably has the most coins in his account than anything else.
3272 2010-12-11 23:44:39 jchysk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3273 2010-12-11 23:44:44 <tcatm> nanotube: Btw, any news on the getting started guide?
3274 2010-12-11 23:45:21 <nanotube> tcatm: sorry not quite... been working on the bitdns spec lately. :) but i'll work on it!
3275 2010-12-11 23:46:13 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3276 2010-12-11 23:46:39 <tcatm> k
3277 2010-12-11 23:47:50 <Kiba> so
3278 2010-12-11 23:47:56 <Kiba> a hornet nest had been kicked
3279 2010-12-11 23:48:02 <Kiba> let hope we survive this war
3280 2010-12-11 23:48:27 <tcatm> Which war?
3281 2010-12-11 23:48:59 JStoker has quit (Quit: JStoker is gone :()
3282 2010-12-11 23:49:19 <theymos> Satoshi: "WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
3283 2010-12-11 23:49:54 <tcatm> Ah. Just found the post. Thanks.
3284 2010-12-11 23:50:28 <Kiba> if they laugh at us, we'll be ok
3285 2010-12-11 23:50:41 <Kiba> if they fight us, the future of bitcoin is uncertain
3286 2010-12-11 23:51:07 <theymos> Quick! Post more extreme anarcho-capitalist posts.
3287 2010-12-11 23:51:26 <tcatm> When they fiht bitcoin they'll only get us more attention.
3288 2010-12-11 23:51:28 <tcatm> fight*
3289 2010-12-11 23:51:31 <Kiba> how does it get them to laugh at us
3290 2010-12-11 23:51:43 Hogofwar has quit ()
3291 2010-12-11 23:51:50 brian has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3292 2010-12-11 23:51:53 <thrashaholic> theymos: im on it! :)
3293 2010-12-11 23:52:21 * thrashaholic gets his SEKIII literature ready
3294 2010-12-11 23:52:57 <theymos> Maybe Satoshi will issue an alert about how much Bitcoin sucks if Wikileaks takes it up.
3295 2010-12-11 23:53:45 <Kiba> we are rebells!
3296 2010-12-11 23:53:49 <Kiba> s/rebells/rebels
3297 2010-12-11 23:54:01 noagendamarket has joined
3298 2010-12-11 23:54:05 <thrashaholic> grammar rebels too, apparently!
3299 2010-12-11 23:54:08 <thrashaholic> noagendamarket: !!
3300 2010-12-11 23:54:16 <noagendamarket> hey thrasha
3301 2010-12-11 23:54:28 <Kiba> PCWorld journalist kicked a hornest nest
3302 2010-12-11 23:54:32 <thrashaholic> it has been too long sir, too long
3303 2010-12-11 23:55:02 <noagendamarket> I thought you got cruashed at the concert lol
3304 2010-12-11 23:55:10 <thrashaholic> lol
3305 2010-12-11 23:55:25 <thrashaholic> nah, i moved right after that, didnt have net until recently
3306 2010-12-11 23:55:46 <thrashaholic> and work was busy, pushing out a big project
3307 2010-12-11 23:55:49 <noagendamarket> ah that musta sucked
3308 2010-12-11 23:55:55 <thrashaholic> yeah completely
3309 2010-12-11 23:56:53 redengin has joined