1 2010-12-12 00:01:17 <tcatm> How do I change the GUI language of Bitcoin on Windows?
2 2010-12-12 00:01:22 <nanotube> Kiba: link me to the hornet's nest post?
3 2010-12-12 00:01:38 <Kiba> nanotube: go visit the forum and go to the topic discussing PCWorld
4 2010-12-12 00:01:48 <nanotube> bah, i want to be lazy. but fine. :)
5 2010-12-12 00:02:24 <theymos> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280#msg29280
6 2010-12-12 00:03:00 jchysk has joined
7 2010-12-12 00:03:46 <Kiba> don't do the work for him, theymos!
8 2010-12-12 00:03:47 <nanotube> already found it - but thanks theymos :)
9 2010-12-12 00:03:57 <nanotube> pcworld article says "According to the FAQ, the current rate of earning Bitcoins is about 50 every three weeks." wtf?
10 2010-12-12 00:04:02 <thrashaholic> nanotube: pcworld like kthx
11 2010-12-12 00:04:02 <nanotube> heh
12 2010-12-12 00:04:09 <Kiba> the only question is...
13 2010-12-12 00:04:15 <thrashaholic> link*
14 2010-12-12 00:04:25 <Kiba> will this "kicking the hornest nest" will be benefical or negative?
15 2010-12-12 00:04:30 Bimmerhead has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
16 2010-12-12 00:04:57 <theymos> The network definitely can't handle floods of people or even moderate DoS attacks.
17 2010-12-12 00:05:16 <tcatm> theymos: May I embed your /q tools in some parts of bitcoincharts? Like for displaying the current block number.
18 2010-12-12 00:05:24 <theymos> Sure.
19 2010-12-12 00:05:45 <OneFixt> http://twitter.com/hackerkiba/statuses/13740912240762880 please... no more FUD
20 2010-12-12 00:05:51 <Kiba> that's because Satoshi is slow
21 2010-12-12 00:05:57 <Kiba> FUD?
22 2010-12-12 00:06:03 <OneFixt> fear/uncertainty/doubt
23 2010-12-12 00:06:05 <Kiba> bullshit, OneFixt
24 2010-12-12 00:06:41 <OneFixt> yes we must be cautious, but anyone reading about this who is new will assume that we're actually in some sort of trouble
25 2010-12-12 00:07:23 <Kiba> so how do you remedy this DDOS problem?
26 2010-12-12 00:07:24 <OneFixt> Actually, I misread your post... it looked like you said BitCoin was the thing in trouble not the bomb shelter
27 2010-12-12 00:07:30 <OneFixt> my apologies
28 2010-12-12 00:07:33 <Kiba> jesus.
29 2010-12-12 00:07:42 <Kiba> apologies accepted.
30 2010-12-12 00:08:01 <Kiba> yeah, if bitcoin fail, we blame PCWorld
31 2010-12-12 00:08:23 <OneFixt> It would be wise to start paying attention to our image somehow
32 2010-12-12 00:08:32 <Kiba> blah
33 2010-12-12 00:08:37 <thrashaholic> i disagree
34 2010-12-12 00:08:41 <Kiba> we can't even manage our own image
35 2010-12-12 00:09:00 <thrashaholic> exactly
36 2010-12-12 00:09:00 <phuzion> How many blocks do I generally have to process before getting a coin?
37 2010-12-12 00:09:05 <OneFixt> Let's put it this way - when a USD user does something stupid, USD doesn't get shut down, the user does
38 2010-12-12 00:09:27 <OneFixt> So I would like to be accountable for only my own actions, and not the actions and words of every bitcoin user in the world.
39 2010-12-12 00:09:39 <phuzion> I'm at 97K blocks, and no coin yet
40 2010-12-12 00:10:00 <donpdonp> phuzion: heh. those are finished blocks that your client is downloading.
41 2010-12-12 00:10:11 <donpdonp> phuzion: generating a new block takes a *lot* of cpu work and time
42 2010-12-12 00:10:26 <tcatm> theymos: Could you add a javascript wrapper? Browsers don't like fetching data from other domains :/
43 2010-12-12 00:10:46 <thrashaholic> tcatm: proxy through a backend
44 2010-12-12 00:11:03 <thrashaholic> unless you're running all client side
45 2010-12-12 00:11:15 JStoker has joined
46 2010-12-12 00:11:25 <tcatm> What's the easiest way to proxy such requests?
47 2010-12-12 00:11:30 <thrashaholic> easy
48 2010-12-12 00:11:44 <phuzion> donpdonp: ok, about how long would it take to generate a coin with a dual core processor?
49 2010-12-12 00:11:52 <thrashaholic> your javascript calls the backend on your domain, then that backend makes the calls to cross domains
50 2010-12-12 00:12:25 <donpdonp> phuzion: in the Settings menu, turn on 'Generate coins', the read the number at the bottom - my laptop says for example 1500 khash/s
51 2010-12-12 00:12:30 <thrashaholic> if you have a backend that you're using, it's pretty simple, just take the get/post data and shove it along, then just return what you get back and deal with it client side
52 2010-12-12 00:13:14 <phuzion> donpdonp: i have generate coins, and it's showing around 1500khash/s
53 2010-12-12 00:13:25 <phuzion> have generate coins on*
54 2010-12-12 00:13:39 <donpdonp> ;;bc,calc 1500
55 2010-12-12 00:13:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 49 minutes, and 52 seconds
56 2010-12-12 00:13:54 <thrashaholic> lol
57 2010-12-12 00:13:54 <donpdonp> phuzion: there you have it, 1 year 5 weeks.
58 2010-12-12 00:13:56 <Sirius_> :D
59 2010-12-12 00:13:58 <phuzion> seriously?
60 2010-12-12 00:14:10 <thrashaholic> cpu generating is very slow
61 2010-12-12 00:14:19 <phuzion> damn, I guess it's time to switch over to gpu then?
62 2010-12-12 00:14:21 <Kiba> phuzion: if bitcoin was easy to generate, there would be massive inflation
63 2010-12-12 00:14:33 <thrashaholic> and we're far enough along now that the difficulty is high enough that it's not really even worth the electricity
64 2010-12-12 00:15:18 grondilu has joined
65 2010-12-12 00:15:47 <Granttt> just wait till pcworld article does its magic, and mtgox starts accepting more forms of payment, the price will skyrocket and mining will again be worth it
66 2010-12-12 00:15:49 <Sirius_> somebody calculated that gpu mining becomes unprofitable somewhere around difficulty 60000
67 2010-12-12 00:15:58 <theymos> tcatm: What kind of wrapper? I get the data from bitcoind, so I can't make client-side code to get it.
68 2010-12-12 00:18:22 <joe_1> anyone wanna play some cards
69 2010-12-12 00:18:33 <tcatm> theymos: I'll try the proxy solution thrashaholic suggested. The wrapper would be a javascript one can load from your page that then passes all requests to your site.
70 2010-12-12 00:19:35 <thrashaholic> both of those are the best solutions
71 2010-12-12 00:19:46 <thrashaholic> but its much easier to just make those requests outside of the browser
72 2010-12-12 00:19:50 <thrashaholic> less work for all involved
73 2010-12-12 00:21:07 <tcatm> The proxy method causes 2 HTTP requests. Javascript only one.
74 2010-12-12 00:21:22 <thrashaholic> no
75 2010-12-12 00:21:25 <thrashaholic> both are two
76 2010-12-12 00:21:36 <thrashaholic> you're pulling the JS in one, doing the request in another
77 2010-12-12 00:22:01 <thrashaholic> there's two in the browser vs. one in the browser and one on your server (which you can cache however you like)
78 2010-12-12 00:22:12 <tcatm> I could reuse that JS once it's loaded.
79 2010-12-12 00:22:27 <thrashaholic> after the first time yes, but you could do the same on the server as well
80 2010-12-12 00:23:02 <thrashaholic> besides, unless you're doing 100000 page views a second, it doesn't really matter
81 2010-12-12 00:23:23 <thrashaholic> premature optimization and all
82 2010-12-12 00:24:43 akem has joined
83 2010-12-12 00:24:44 akem has quit (Changing host)
84 2010-12-12 00:24:44 akem has joined
85 2010-12-12 00:26:00 <theymos> So all I would have on my end is some function that AJAX-requests one of my pages and returns the result as a variable?
86 2010-12-12 00:26:27 <thrashaholic> right
87 2010-12-12 00:26:33 <thrashaholic> json or however you wanted to do it
88 2010-12-12 00:27:22 <phuzion> Has anyone tied making a PS3 client for generating coins?
89 2010-12-12 00:28:07 <thrashaholic> it's not efficient
90 2010-12-12 00:28:16 <thrashaholic> or so ive been told :)
91 2010-12-12 00:28:50 <thrashaholic> you'd likely have to rewrite the whole thing to take advantage of the cell properly
92 2010-12-12 00:29:04 <thrashaholic> but im no gpu expert
93 2010-12-12 00:29:19 <phuzion> that was what I was thinking, rewrite the client to run on a PS3
94 2010-12-12 00:29:23 <thrashaholic> i mentioned it last night, ArtForz and others said ps3 was fail, and i take their word for it
95 2010-12-12 00:29:56 <thrashaholic> i doubt it would be any better than just getting some good cards and running the gpu client when time vs money is taken into account
96 2010-12-12 00:30:50 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
97 2010-12-12 00:30:58 <noagendamarket> would be good if you could just get a gpu cradle without needing the entire machine
98 2010-12-12 00:33:29 <thrashaholic> multiple cards in a purpose-built barebones machine is how artforz does it
99 2010-12-12 00:33:41 <phuzion> so, gpu is the most efficient way right now?
100 2010-12-12 00:33:56 <thrashaholic> it will be for the forseeable future, yes
101 2010-12-12 00:34:11 <noagendamarket> artforz should rent out gpu slots to people lol
102 2010-12-12 00:34:11 <phuzion> ok, I guess I'm setting it up on my desktop then
103 2010-12-12 00:35:24 akem has joined
104 2010-12-12 00:35:26 akem has quit (Changing host)
105 2010-12-12 00:35:26 akem has joined
106 2010-12-12 00:35:27 <noagendamarket> anyone doing a hardware site that recommends the best rig?
107 2010-12-12 00:35:55 <tcatm> HD 5970/5870 + good power supply
108 2010-12-12 00:36:18 <phuzion> tcatm: I've got two 9800GTX+ cards, would that do decently?
109 2010-12-12 00:39:09 <tcatm> phuzion: Nope. Nvidia sucks for mining.
110 2010-12-12 00:41:50 <T_X_> there's something that still confuses me about the pcworld article... which also confused me at brucewagner's radio interview.
111 2010-12-12 00:41:50 <T_X_> "Bitcoins gain their value simply by the fact people are prepared to accept them as payment for services and goods. This sounds weak but this is not entirely dissimilar in nature to the major Fiat currencies such as the Dollar, Euro and Sterling."
112 2010-12-12 00:41:50 <T_X_> of course, the acceptance plays a big role and offer and demand play a big role.
113 2010-12-12 00:41:50 <T_X_> but those trends should usually move around the energy costs for the processing, shouldn't it?
114 2010-12-12 00:42:57 brucewagner has quit (Quit: Page closed)
115 2010-12-12 00:42:58 <T_X_> so far I usually tended to say, that bitcoins have the value, because people transfer energy cost -> number crunching -> bitcoins
116 2010-12-12 00:43:08 <Kiba> no sir
117 2010-12-12 00:43:13 <Kiba> it's just difficult to generate bitcoin
118 2010-12-12 00:44:22 <T_X_> Kiba: well, but it's the big miners, that are also setting the price isn't it? set by what tehy are willing to offer them on the market to make a profit
119 2010-12-12 00:44:47 <theymos> No. Generators are buying BTC from the network using electricity as payment.
120 2010-12-12 00:45:19 <T_X_> Kiba: the energy cost for generating at the current difficulty-level, that's setting the margin for the people doing heavy mining jobs, isn't it?
121 2010-12-12 00:45:55 <T_X_> the margin at which they can offer the generated bitcoins for sale, that is
122 2010-12-12 00:45:58 <tcatm> Generators are mostly paying hardware.
123 2010-12-12 00:46:08 <tcatm> +for
124 2010-12-12 00:46:36 <T_X_> tcatm: yeah, for the short term, maybe, but not for the long run?
125 2010-12-12 00:47:31 grondilu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
126 2010-12-12 00:47:53 <T_X_> the difficulty increases and increases, so at some point, every miner has to wonder, if it'd still be profitable for them to generate. or, at which price new, higher price they'd have to sell it to make a profit
127 2010-12-12 00:48:09 <tcatm> That'd be in around 6-9 months.
128 2010-12-12 00:48:29 <tcatm> Until then it's energy costs are low compared to the value of generated coins
129 2010-12-12 00:48:58 <T_X_> tcatm: for a gpu miner, right?
130 2010-12-12 00:49:01 <T_X_> hmm, interesting
131 2010-12-12 00:49:04 <tcatm> Yep.
132 2010-12-12 00:50:03 <Kiba> miners in the southern hampishare will consider it profitable
133 2010-12-12 00:50:05 <T_X_> so in 6-9 months you think they price might be getting closer to the energy-cost margin? would that be about the same time, when the diffculty increase will halt?
134 2010-12-12 00:50:21 <Kiba> various factors
135 2010-12-12 00:50:26 <Kiba> price
136 2010-12-12 00:50:45 <tcatm> That was an estimation assuming difficulty will continue to increase steadily and price remaining the same level.
137 2010-12-12 00:53:29 Diablo-D3 has joined
138 2010-12-12 00:55:33 <Granttt> would be great if we had a difficulty/price futures/prediction market
139 2010-12-12 00:56:05 <tcatm> Granttt: How would such a market work?
140 2010-12-12 00:56:53 [Waterfox] has joined
141 2010-12-12 00:57:54 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/bbe/ It's working (except for 404s) :)
142 2010-12-12 00:58:42 <Granttt> depends, there are many ways to do it. The basic way is the sportsbook method (one side of the bet wins the opposite bets money when the event has passed to one or the other side), or as they call them "Digital Options".
143 2010-12-12 00:59:50 <donpdonp> Granttt: https://bitcoinsportsbook.com/ heh
144 2010-12-12 01:01:04 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Anybody interested in pretty good hosting, going at 20 BTC/month (negotiable)?: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2218
145 2010-12-12 01:01:25 <Kiba> already have what I need...
146 2010-12-12 01:01:38 <Granttt> or one could do the famous "subprime market" one, with "Credit-Default-Swaps". In our case that would be "Mining-Default-Swaps", one side of the trade would pay a fixed % payment (of the face value of the contract) to the other side over a predefined period of time. If the "bet" does default, the other side would have to make a 100% onetime payment to the other side.
147 2010-12-12 01:01:54 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: hmm, I hope I'll get someone else
148 2010-12-12 01:02:30 * Kiba sells art for his bitcoin living
149 2010-12-12 01:02:48 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: what's an easy way to start off?
150 2010-12-12 01:03:00 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|The Faucet only gave me 0.05 BTC.
151 2010-12-12 01:03:05 <Kiba> sell something for download
152 2010-12-12 01:03:15 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: like what?
153 2010-12-12 01:03:22 <Kiba> like original arts
154 2010-12-12 01:03:58 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|The main [productive] thing I do on the web is editing stuff @ Wikipedia.
155 2010-12-12 01:04:15 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|...or not
156 2010-12-12 01:04:16 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Maybe I can get some donations from WP members.
157 2010-12-12 01:04:19 <appamatto> Any news today?
158 2010-12-12 01:04:36 <Kiba> PCWorld distrubs hornest nest
159 2010-12-12 01:04:48 <Granttt> donpdonp: Thanks, didnt notice this one till now: OTHER: Bitcoin Difficulty Factor (BDF) << thats awesome :)
160 2010-12-12 01:05:01 <Kiba> Growing Community Crash Bitcoin Project Server
161 2010-12-12 01:05:38 <donpdonp> Granttt: people will bet on anything :)
162 2010-12-12 01:06:37 <noagendamarket> You can get rebates for shopping at amazon :)
163 2010-12-12 01:08:36 <Kiba> [Waterfox]|qweb: there's some very expensive bounty
164 2010-12-12 01:09:08 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: ?
165 2010-12-12 01:09:38 <Kiba> people put up a lot of money for things that they want
166 2010-12-12 01:09:50 <Kiba> for example, android bitcoin client, 1740 BTC
167 2010-12-12 01:10:52 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I'm not that much of a coder, though
168 2010-12-12 01:11:02 <[Waterfox]> qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|I'm more into stuff like forum management
169 2010-12-12 01:11:13 [Waterfox] is now known as qweb!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Wx|web
170 2010-12-12 01:11:14 <Kiba> what that?
171 2010-12-12 01:11:24 <Kiba> you could alway draw...
172 2010-12-12 01:11:38 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I have lots of experience with online community software like MediaWiki and MyBB
173 2010-12-12 01:12:07 <Kiba> I have an entire encylopedia about games that are free software...
174 2010-12-12 01:12:17 <Kiba> but I am saving my bitcoins, for now
175 2010-12-12 01:12:23 <Kiba> would like to accumlate lot and lot of bitcoin
176 2010-12-12 01:13:46 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: do you just keep them in your wallet or use something like MyBitcoin?
177 2010-12-12 01:14:15 * tcatm is writing a bitcoin getting started guide
178 2010-12-12 01:14:45 <Kiba> I keep them in my wallet
179 2010-12-12 01:15:38 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|A generous forum member is sending me 1 BTC.
180 2010-12-12 01:16:25 <theymos> tcatm: If you keep any exact copies of my pages up, please disallow them in your robots.txt so that Google doesn't get confused about my cannonical URLs.
181 2010-12-12 01:17:05 <Kiba> Wx|web: you have any skills in coding?
182 2010-12-12 01:17:14 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I'm not that bad
183 2010-12-12 01:17:25 <Kiba> maybe you could make a website
184 2010-12-12 01:17:40 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: in exchange for BTC?
185 2010-12-12 01:18:01 <Kiba> building your own web service that accept bitcoin
186 2010-12-12 01:18:16 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: ...like what?
187 2010-12-12 01:18:16 <tcatm> theymos: fixed
188 2010-12-12 01:18:24 <theymos> Thanks.
189 2010-12-12 01:18:33 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|there seems to be tons of BitCoin-centered services
190 2010-12-12 01:19:14 <Kiba> not really
191 2010-12-12 01:19:43 <Kiba> Wx|web: an automated pizza buying service
192 2010-12-12 01:19:54 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: are you serious?
193 2010-12-12 01:20:08 <Kiba> oh yes
194 2010-12-12 01:20:13 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|I believe there's a Python API for Domino's.
195 2010-12-12 01:20:16 <Kiba> If you build that you would be awesome
196 2010-12-12 01:20:23 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1268.0
197 2010-12-12 01:20:26 <Kiba> here is a list of niches
198 2010-12-12 01:20:48 <Kiba> that are currently unfulfilled
199 2010-12-12 01:21:16 <Kiba> what you do is take a small fee in addition to the bitcoin neccesary to buy a pizza, no?
200 2010-12-12 01:21:35 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I don't want to be directly involved with the trading, though
201 2010-12-12 01:21:52 <Kiba> eh?
202 2010-12-12 01:22:00 <Kiba> all you doing is making it convenient to buy pizza
203 2010-12-12 01:22:03 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|maybe I can do it through something like Mt. Gox
204 2010-12-12 01:22:23 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I mean, not handling the exchanging of BitCoins for money
205 2010-12-12 01:22:54 <Kiba> well, you will be responsible for getting enough money for people to buy pizza
206 2010-12-12 01:24:24 asdf30 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
207 2010-12-12 01:24:24 <Kiba> Wx|web: well, if you're going to do an exchange site..I have an idea
208 2010-12-12 01:24:37 <Kiba> I was planning to make na open source exchange
209 2010-12-12 01:24:38 <Kiba> site
210 2010-12-12 01:24:45 <Kiba> so that anybody can set up their own exchange
211 2010-12-12 01:25:02 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I find that there are too many exchanges/markets
212 2010-12-12 01:25:04 <Kiba> and I would get everyone to pledge 5000 BTC
213 2010-12-12 01:25:16 <Kiba> Wx|web: not enough in my opinion
214 2010-12-12 01:25:19 <Kiba> many of them...sucks.
215 2010-12-12 01:25:27 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: Mt. Gox looks ok
216 2010-12-12 01:25:28 <Granttt> Kiba: open source exchange would be nice
217 2010-12-12 01:25:50 <Kiba> it's not about looks
218 2010-12-12 01:25:53 <Kiba> it's about convenience
219 2010-12-12 01:26:04 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: I didn't mean appearance
220 2010-12-12 01:26:11 <Kiba> Mt. Gox. offers an unprecedented level of convenience unmatched by any market
221 2010-12-12 01:28:17 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|so you like it?
222 2010-12-12 01:28:51 <Kiba> well, pretty much.
223 2010-12-12 01:29:06 <Kiba> but I think pizza buying service is a good idea
224 2010-12-12 01:30:31 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: this is unbelievable: http://trkweb.dominos.com/orderstorage/GetTrackerData?Phone=5555555555
225 2010-12-12 01:32:38 <Kiba> seem like the phone data are leak
226 2010-12-12 01:32:39 <Kiba> ed
227 2010-12-12 01:33:20 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Anyway, PHP's XML parser is terrible.
228 2010-12-12 01:34:05 <Kiba> well,
229 2010-12-12 01:34:09 <Kiba> if you want to make money
230 2010-12-12 01:34:18 <Kiba> you gottach build things that people will buy
231 2010-12-12 01:37:51 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: makes sense ...
232 2010-12-12 01:38:18 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|When you generate a new MyBitcoin address, does it still track your old one?
233 2010-12-12 01:38:56 <tcatm> Yep.
234 2010-12-12 01:39:29 * Kiba wonders how many people would buy pizza if they can purchase it in bitcoin
235 2010-12-12 01:40:02 <noagendamarket> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7pPajOvQGo haha
236 2010-12-12 01:40:16 <Kiba> one of the first transaction in bitcoin history
237 2010-12-12 01:40:21 <Kiba> is buying a pizza for 10,000 BTC
238 2010-12-12 01:41:32 <Kiba> at that time
239 2010-12-12 01:41:37 <Kiba> it was worth 41 USD
240 2010-12-12 01:43:14 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|noagendamarket: got a mirror of the program?
241 2010-12-12 01:43:43 <noagendamarket> no i cant find it
242 2010-12-12 01:45:38 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|noagendamarket: if you really want it, I'll give it to you for some BTC
243 2010-12-12 01:46:08 <KwukDuck> puddinpop, you there?
244 2010-12-12 01:47:46 <puddinpop> yeah
245 2010-12-12 01:47:58 <noagendamarket> haha its probably in the way back machine
246 2010-12-12 01:48:57 <KwukDuck> i tried the line in the .cl file
247 2010-12-12 01:49:14 <KwukDuck> still no result and it pops an error about it too
248 2010-12-12 01:49:19 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|noagendamarket: well, I have it in my personal software archive
249 2010-12-12 01:50:59 <puddinpop> Well what is the error?
250 2010-12-12 01:51:01 asdf30 has joined
251 2010-12-12 01:51:14 <KwukDuck> i posted it in the pooled/remote mining topic
252 2010-12-12 01:52:22 <puddinpop> Well, that's pretty much self explanatory. It can't enable the extension, so you won't be able to run it.
253 2010-12-12 01:52:40 <KwukDuck> anything that can be done about it?
254 2010-12-12 01:56:40 asdf58 has joined
255 2010-12-12 01:57:11 asdf30 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
256 2010-12-12 02:08:46 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|I'm tired of Mt. Gox's payment widget.
257 2010-12-12 02:08:52 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|I get jQuery errors.
258 2010-12-12 02:08:58 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|I'll just use MyBitcoin.
259 2010-12-12 02:10:33 <Kiba> sned question to mtgox so he can fix it
260 2010-12-12 02:11:02 <doublec> puddinpop, are you around?
261 2010-12-12 02:18:06 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/howto/ anyone wanting to help a little? :)
262 2010-12-12 02:19:25 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|tcatm: if you want ...
263 2010-12-12 02:21:38 <tcatm> ?
264 2010-12-12 02:21:43 <nanotube> tcatm: if you use a wiki people can do it easier
265 2010-12-12 02:21:53 <nanotube> why not stick the stuff into the wiki page i created on -otc (and have neglected so far... :) )
266 2010-12-12 02:22:58 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|ah, server's down
267 2010-12-12 02:23:37 <nanotube> tcatm: this page, i'm talking about: http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/Bitcoin_Howto
268 2010-12-12 02:24:56 <tcatm> Locking would be annoying.
269 2010-12-12 02:25:43 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|nanotube: so little users on that wiki
270 2010-12-12 02:25:50 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|nanotube: did you set up MediaWiki?
271 2010-12-12 02:26:16 <nanotube> tcatm: locking?
272 2010-12-12 02:26:29 <tcatm> Simultaenous edits :)
273 2010-12-12 02:26:38 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|tcatm: you mean edit conflicts?
274 2010-12-12 02:26:43 <nanotube> Wx|web: well, it's a private wiki for the bitcoin-otc.com project. and yes, as you can see with your own eyes... i set up mediawiki. :)
275 2010-12-12 02:26:51 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|usually, locking = page protection
276 2010-12-12 02:27:06 <nanotube> tcatm: ah well... wikipedia deals with that just fine, it seems. :)
277 2010-12-12 02:28:23 <nanotube> tcatm: it's just that collaborative editing using a wiki tends to be easier than collaborative editing using... your html page. :)
278 2010-12-12 02:28:42 <nanotube> unless you have it in a git repo somewhere... i guess that could work if you grant a bunch of people commit rights.
279 2010-12-12 02:28:54 <nanotube> but still higher barrier than a wiki. i think. :)
280 2010-12-12 02:29:11 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php says it will take me 200 days to generate a block? Why?
281 2010-12-12 02:29:23 <tcatm> Wx|web: You have a too slow CPU ;)
282 2010-12-12 02:29:58 <tcatm> nanotube: I'd like that article to be finished soon and have it on bitcoincharts.
283 2010-12-12 02:30:45 <nanotube> tcatm: that would be cool - just saying it's easier to get collaborators if you use a wiki ( you can export it back to bitcoincharts periodically)
284 2010-12-12 02:30:55 <nanotube> Wx|web: what's your hash rate?
285 2010-12-12 02:33:52 Wx has quit (web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
286 2010-12-12 02:37:45 <doublec> pooled server temporarily going down for an update. Clients should handle the connect/disconnect gracefully...
287 2010-12-12 02:38:07 Wx has joined
288 2010-12-12 02:38:56 <Kiba> what does this update do?
289 2010-12-12 02:39:20 <doublec> Kiba, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.msg29252#msg29252
290 2010-12-12 02:40:27 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
291 2010-12-12 02:40:30 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Kiba: is the BitDNS system functional now?
292 2010-12-12 02:40:36 <Kiba> awesome
293 2010-12-12 02:40:45 <Kiba> Wx|web: don't ask me. I am not the one who code it.
294 2010-12-12 02:40:51 <Kiba> I just starts the pledge drive
295 2010-12-12 02:40:57 <nanotube> Wx|web: we're working on the spec for the moment.
296 2010-12-12 02:41:08 <Kiba> nanotube: how close are we?
297 2010-12-12 02:41:12 <Kiba> I am kinda getting lost
298 2010-12-12 02:41:16 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|nanotube: what he/she said
299 2010-12-12 02:41:52 <nanotube> Kiba: Wx|web: well, you can see what the latest status is (at least for the theymos+nanotube proposal) on the spec wiki: http://privwiki.dreamhosters.com/wiki/Bitcoin_DNS_System_Proposal
300 2010-12-12 02:42:07 <nanotube> we're still hammering out the spec. but i'm hoping to get to some dev work "any day now (tm)"
301 2010-12-12 02:42:42 <theymos> The binary record format I invested will allow you to store 6+ nameservers in the 120 bytes allowed.
302 2010-12-12 02:42:47 <theymos> invented*
303 2010-12-12 02:43:12 * nanotube is giving it a review now.
304 2010-12-12 02:43:29 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|nanotube: basically we'll be paying for meta domains with BTC
305 2010-12-12 02:44:07 <Kiba> no.
306 2010-12-12 02:44:24 <Kiba> I believe BTC is merely an option
307 2010-12-12 02:44:30 <Kiba> you could pay it with euro or whatever
308 2010-12-12 02:44:41 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|... but you're paying
309 2010-12-12 02:44:45 <Wx> web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|I'll look into it
310 2010-12-12 02:44:55 <T_X_> Kiba: how does the buying of the picture work exactly? so I'd send those fraction of a BTC to that address, and where would I get the proper download link from then?
311 2010-12-12 02:44:55 <doublec> pool server back up now
312 2010-12-12 02:44:56 Wx has quit (web!adb1f99f@wikipedia/Waterfox|Quit: Page closed)
313 2010-12-12 02:45:15 <Kiba> T_X_: you pay it with domain coins, as far as my understanding goes
314 2010-12-12 02:46:10 <T_X_> Kiba: domain coins?
315 2010-12-12 02:46:15 <T_X_> I'm talking about http://pastecoin.com/download.php?file=52
316 2010-12-12 02:46:30 <Kiba> oh
317 2010-12-12 02:46:31 <T_X_> wasn't that yours?
318 2010-12-12 02:46:38 <Diablo-D3> T_X_: responded to and closed your bug
319 2010-12-12 02:46:38 <tcatm> T_X_: Pay coins, refresh page.
320 2010-12-12 02:46:40 <Kiba> you send a fraction of bitcoin
321 2010-12-12 02:46:42 <Kiba> refresh
322 2010-12-12 02:46:43 <T_X_> thought you'd been twittering this
323 2010-12-12 02:46:45 <Kiba> then download
324 2010-12-12 02:46:55 <Kiba> that work is indeed mine
325 2010-12-12 02:47:24 <T_X_> how does the pastecoin.com know it was me sending the BTCs... ah wait
326 2010-12-12 02:47:28 <T_X_> cookies or so?
327 2010-12-12 02:47:38 <Kiba> address
328 2010-12-12 02:47:40 <theymos> It gives you a unique address.
329 2010-12-12 02:47:40 <T_X_> and the BTC address is linked to my cookie?
330 2010-12-12 02:47:52 <Kiba> what theymos said
331 2010-12-12 02:48:42 <T_X_> yeah, well, but how does the webserver know that it was this laptop?
332 2010-12-12 02:49:21 <Kiba> because it knew that it received bitcoin from that address
333 2010-12-12 02:49:45 <Kiba> and if you refresh, I think it send information that the server check for
334 2010-12-12 02:49:48 <Kiba> in the POST
335 2010-12-12 02:50:44 <T_X_> I mean, if I were sending the BTC and then opening the same link I just posted on a different computer, I'd probably not get the download I guess
336 2010-12-12 02:50:53 <T_X_> I don't see any POST in here
337 2010-12-12 02:51:02 <theymos> It probably uses cookies. Why don't you check your cookies and see?
338 2010-12-12 02:51:04 <T_X_> it's just a GET for fetching this website, afaik
339 2010-12-12 02:51:18 <Kiba> that was a guess...
340 2010-12-12 02:52:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you know what I was thinking?
341 2010-12-12 02:53:07 <T_X_> Kiba: sorry, didn't mean to sound offensive :)
342 2010-12-12 02:53:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: triple wide card, put a pipe in EVERYTHING
343 2010-12-12 02:53:30 <T_X_> theymos: yeah, there seems to be a PHPSESSID cookie
344 2010-12-12 02:53:39 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: each ram chip, each little vrm cluster, a couple on the gpu
345 2010-12-12 02:53:57 <theymos> I wonder how well it handles cases when the client doesn't support cookies. Probably badly.
346 2010-12-12 02:53:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: bend them to the back of the card, turn, and then exit at the end of the card
347 2010-12-12 02:54:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: then use two low speed 40mm fans
348 2010-12-12 02:54:42 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so the heat is naturally drawn to the tip of the heatpipes which is at the vent exit
349 2010-12-12 02:54:53 <T_X_> Kiba: do you know who's responsible for pastecoin.com? I think it might be note worthy on the site, that people should not restart their browser or so when they use this service
350 2010-12-12 02:54:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and then enclose the whole fucking thing as tight as possible
351 2010-12-12 02:54:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no air leaks
352 2010-12-12 02:55:25 <T_X_> Kiba: well, anyway, I'll give pastecoin.com a try now :)
353 2010-12-12 02:55:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so it blows all the heat right out the case
354 2010-12-12 02:56:58 <T_X_> Diablo-D3: argh, the drivers again?
355 2010-12-12 02:57:11 <Diablo-D3> T_X_: yup, theres no way for that error to logically occur on basically no allocations
356 2010-12-12 02:58:46 <T_X_> hmm, hmm
357 2010-12-12 02:59:56 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
358 2010-12-12 03:00:24 <Diablo-D3> T_X_: try the newest beta driver
359 2010-12-12 03:00:39 <Diablo-D3> everyone whos gotten it working used the beta driver
360 2010-12-12 03:00:40 <Diablo-D3> and it worked
361 2010-12-12 03:01:45 <T_X_> Diablo-D3: can this also be caused due to some other broken stuff in the kernel? or can this error only occur if there's something broken in the nvidia driver?
362 2010-12-12 03:01:56 <Diablo-D3> the kernel has pretty much no control
363 2010-12-12 03:02:05 <Diablo-D3> I assume you have the nvidia kernel module matched for your driver
364 2010-12-12 03:02:23 <Diablo-D3> if the rest of the kernel was that broken, X wouldnt even startup right
365 2010-12-12 03:03:12 <Kiba> T_X_: genijx
366 2010-12-12 03:03:15 <Kiba> is responsible
367 2010-12-12 03:04:48 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
368 2010-12-12 03:05:34 <T_X_> Diablo-D3: hmm, there "could" be a fair chance that something in my kernel might not run right... gimme second, need to restart
369 2010-12-12 03:05:49 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
370 2010-12-12 03:10:05 <Zarutian> might be on or off topic: the types of contracts I know of: bounty (for instance, makeing a software feature, logo and so on), assurance contract (one or more parties are willing to provide a public good if people's payments pool for it goes above x amount before a cut off days otherwise the payments are returned minus tx cost), donations and auctions , what would be missing in this list?
371 2010-12-12 03:11:16 <Kiba> dunno
372 2010-12-12 03:14:39 engla has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
373 2010-12-12 03:21:46 <nanotube> Zarutian: how about the simple "i give you X, you give me Y" contract? :)
374 2010-12-12 03:21:57 <nanotube> the most prevalent of all. :)
375 2010-12-12 03:24:35 <T_X_> Diablo-D3: now after the restart, I don't have this CL_OUT_OF_RESSOURCES anymore
376 2010-12-12 03:24:43 <T_X_> however, I'm still having a segementation fault
377 2010-12-12 03:25:43 <Zarutian> nanotube: the simplest yes.
378 2010-12-12 03:27:12 daveandr has joined
379 2010-12-12 03:28:19 <T_X_> I think the CL_... error was due to a partly crashed kernel module that I was doing development work on at the moment :). but even after the reboot the DiabloMiner crash still remains.
380 2010-12-12 03:28:25 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
381 2010-12-12 03:28:48 <T_X_> didn't java usually display those nice backtraces in such cases?
382 2010-12-12 03:29:21 <T_X_> (sorry, still more the plain C and not Java guy ;) )
383 2010-12-12 03:30:58 <Diablo-D3> T_X_: usually yes
384 2010-12-12 03:31:07 <Diablo-D3> but it seems to be segfaulting in a way the jvm cant catch
385 2010-12-12 03:31:11 <Diablo-D3> so try using the beta drivers
386 2010-12-12 03:31:58 <T_X_> Diablo-D3: oki doki
387 2010-12-12 03:32:10 maximi89 has joined
388 2010-12-12 03:35:55 ElectRo` has joined
389 2010-12-12 03:37:10 maximi89 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
390 2010-12-12 03:45:46 * Diablo-D3 hates nvidia
391 2010-12-12 03:51:55 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
392 2010-12-12 03:52:42 redengin has joined
393 2010-12-12 03:59:05 * T_X_ hates closed source software
394 2010-12-12 03:59:31 T_X_ is now known as T_X
395 2010-12-12 03:59:40 T_X has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
396 2010-12-12 03:59:51 T_X has joined
397 2010-12-12 04:02:47 <T_X> Kiba: lol, I actually wanted to send 0.5 BTC to you, but looks like there are still 0.4 BTC on the pastecoin account
398 2010-12-12 04:03:55 <T_X> hmm, now it says, I'd have 0.1 BTC
399 2010-12-12 04:03:59 <T_X> I'm confused :D
400 2010-12-12 04:04:13 Kiba has joined
401 2010-12-12 04:04:38 <T_X> [05:01:41] <T_X> Kiba: lol, I actually wanted to send 0.5 BTC to you, but looks like there are still 0.4 BTC on the pastecoin account
402 2010-12-12 04:04:38 <T_X> [05:02:49] <T_X> hmm, now it says, I'd have 0.1 BTC
403 2010-12-12 04:04:38 <T_X> [05:02:53] <T_X> I'm confused :D
404 2010-12-12 04:05:26 <T_X> Kiba: did you get 0.1, 0.4 or 0.5 BTC?
405 2010-12-12 04:05:58 <Kiba> hmm
406 2010-12-12 04:06:05 <Kiba> I am not on my desktop right now
407 2010-12-12 04:06:23 <Kiba> thanks for the bacon
408 2010-12-12 04:06:30 <T_X> :P
409 2010-12-12 04:06:48 <T_X> anyway, not that important, just trying to figure out how pastecoin.com works :)
410 2010-12-12 04:06:53 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
411 2010-12-12 04:07:16 <T_X> Kiba: and thanks for the nice pic ):
412 2010-12-12 04:07:18 <T_X> :)
413 2010-12-12 04:07:41 <T_X> s/):/:)
414 2010-12-12 04:09:06 <Kiba> each day, when I don't have school, I make it an effort to spend an hour on an art project
415 2010-12-12 04:10:18 <Kiba> my donation address is on the Kiba's Art thread if you think I deserve more than 0.5 BTC
416 2010-12-12 04:20:17 acous has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
417 2010-12-12 04:23:58 daveandr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
418 2010-12-12 04:37:42 duck1123_ has joined
419 2010-12-12 04:40:55 duck1123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
420 2010-12-12 05:08:49 hacim has joined
421 2010-12-12 05:09:08 <hacim> i'm curious, how do I get a username/password? do I just... create one?
422 2010-12-12 05:10:02 <Kiba> hacim: bitcoin software?
423 2010-12-12 05:10:03 <Kiba> no
424 2010-12-12 05:10:15 <Kiba> you don't need a username/password for bitcoin
425 2010-12-12 05:10:40 <Kiba> it's a wallet
426 2010-12-12 05:10:42 <Kiba> not an account
427 2010-12-12 05:11:06 <Kiba> more like a vault that is accessible through your keys called addresses
428 2010-12-12 05:13:13 <hacim> i was reading http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=headless_client and it says "i used my username for my label"
429 2010-12-12 05:13:36 <hacim> i did have to set 'rpcpassword' in my config, i just set it to a random password
430 2010-12-12 05:13:54 <tcatm> I think that article is a bit outdated...
431 2010-12-12 05:14:44 <tcatm> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=accounts
432 2010-12-12 05:16:36 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
433 2010-12-12 05:18:09 <hacim> ok, i have some reading to do
434 2010-12-12 05:19:03 <tcatm> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api also good reading
435 2010-12-12 05:31:57 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
436 2010-12-12 05:32:52 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
437 2010-12-12 05:37:33 phuzion has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
438 2010-12-12 05:45:18 Xanie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
439 2010-12-12 05:53:46 <appamatto> Howdy
440 2010-12-12 05:54:49 StrangeCharm has joined
441 2010-12-12 05:56:30 <nanotube> o/
442 2010-12-12 05:59:05 <appamatto> Thinking out app creation and destruction in bitx
443 2010-12-12 05:59:41 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
444 2010-12-12 06:01:16 <appamatto> The xblock structure hash evalved a bit: http://bitx.appamatto.com/wiki?name=xblock
445 2010-12-12 06:02:36 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
446 2010-12-12 06:02:48 <appamatto> hash=has
447 2010-12-12 06:08:22 Toadyonps3 has joined
448 2010-12-12 06:47:52 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
449 2010-12-12 06:48:10 Granttt has joined
450 2010-12-12 06:51:44 StrangeCharm has joined
451 2010-12-12 07:05:59 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
452 2010-12-12 07:21:25 chuck has joined
453 2010-12-12 07:26:10 <chuck> Hey, I'm looking through the Bitcoin website, and I'm kind of confused, what exactly are blocks?
454 2010-12-12 07:26:27 <theymos> Did you see http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block ?
455 2010-12-12 07:27:34 <appamatto> chuck, welcome! any specific questions about blocks?
456 2010-12-12 07:27:51 <chuck> theymos, just found that, i'm reading it
457 2010-12-12 07:29:41 RazielZ has joined
458 2010-12-12 07:30:26 <chuck> so what does it mean when my client is generating coins then?
459 2010-12-12 07:31:10 <theymos> You're trying to create a new block.
460 2010-12-12 07:31:24 <appamatto> Whenever you create a new block you are rewarded with 50 coins
461 2010-12-12 07:33:30 <chuck> but there's a pretty slim chance of that happening, right?
462 2010-12-12 07:33:40 <theymos> Yeah.
463 2010-12-12 07:34:34 <theymos> If you have 2000 khash/s: ,,(calc 2000)
464 2010-12-12 07:34:35 <gribble> Error: The command "calc" is available in the Google and Math plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "calc".
465 2010-12-12 07:34:42 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 2000
466 2010-12-12 07:34:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 43 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds
467 2010-12-12 07:35:18 <chuck> theymos, can I find the khash/s figure for a headless daemon? i can't find a command option that outputs it
468 2010-12-12 07:35:37 <theymos> The hash/s is output with getinfo.
469 2010-12-12 07:36:13 <theymos> Divide that by 1000 to get the value that you give to ;;bc,calc.
470 2010-12-12 07:36:26 <chuck> divide which? the difficulty?
471 2010-12-12 07:36:45 <theymos> "hashespersec" : 1931863
472 2010-12-12 07:36:56 <chuck> 0? lol
473 2010-12-12 07:37:30 <theymos> You haven't downloaded all the blocks, probably. There are ,,bc,blocks
474 2010-12-12 07:37:30 <gribble> 97150
475 2010-12-12 07:37:38 <chuck> ah, yep, that's it
476 2010-12-12 07:45:44 sgornick has joined
477 2010-12-12 07:48:16 brian_ has joined
478 2010-12-12 07:49:25 <chuck> i guess my question is what is the CPU work that's being done by clients, does every client do the CPU work or only the ones that are "generating coins", and why is that work being done?
479 2010-12-12 07:51:05 <appamatto> yes, only the generating ones
480 2010-12-12 07:51:35 <theymos> The point of it is to make it extremely difficult to modify past blocks, or create bad future blocks.
481 2010-12-12 07:52:18 <theymos> Check out http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block_chain
482 2010-12-12 07:52:22 <appamatto> It's like a captcha, for computers
483 2010-12-12 07:52:43 <appamatto> With the difficulty of the captcha increasing so that only one person solves it in the world every 10 minutes
484 2010-12-12 07:52:52 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
485 2010-12-12 07:53:14 Granttt has joined
486 2010-12-12 07:53:23 <appamatto> That way in order to game the system you have to posess more than half of the CPU power
487 2010-12-12 07:54:46 <nanotube> theymos: that wiki page references a 100-block maturation period... wasn't it 120?
488 2010-12-12 07:55:06 <theymos> The extra 20 is added by the client for safety.
489 2010-12-12 07:55:12 <theymos> Only 100 is network-enforced.
490 2010-12-12 07:57:41 <nanotube> ah
491 2010-12-12 07:59:32 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 260000
492 2010-12-12 07:59:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 260000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 12 seconds
493 2010-12-12 07:59:57 <theymos> Wow! The pool is huge.
494 2010-12-12 08:00:11 <doublec> yeah, wonder if it's the new opencl client
495 2010-12-12 08:02:40 <appamatto> the difficulty is getting out of hand :p
496 2010-12-12 08:03:50 <nanotube> bad for individuals, good for the network. :)
497 2010-12-12 08:04:48 <nanotube> doublec: i see it has become multithreaded, too
498 2010-12-12 08:04:56 <doublec> yes
499 2010-12-12 08:05:18 <theymos> Is there an option to limit CPUs?
500 2010-12-12 08:05:41 <doublec> yes. -threads=n
501 2010-12-12 08:05:55 <chuck> where's the opencl client?
502 2010-12-12 08:06:04 <doublec> ,,pool
503 2010-12-12 08:06:05 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
504 2010-12-12 08:06:12 <doublec> in the win32 binary download
505 2010-12-12 08:07:58 <chuck> doublec, so it's not for mac?
506 2010-12-12 08:08:22 <doublec> chuck, no you'd have to build from source
507 2010-12-12 08:10:06 <theymos> chuck: If you're looking for a non-pool GPU miner, I think Diablo's Java miner might run on Mac.
508 2010-12-12 08:15:09 <appamatto> congrats on the generation, doublec
509 2010-12-12 08:15:24 <doublec> thanks appamatto
510 2010-12-12 08:23:20 <Orbixx> Is there a way to tell bitcoin to use a certain directory for the bitcoin user files?
511 2010-12-12 08:23:38 <theymos> -datadir=path
512 2010-12-12 08:23:50 <OneFixt> ;;bc,estimate
513 2010-12-12 08:23:51 <gribble> 13783.73565431
514 2010-12-12 08:24:28 <appamatto> Do you think there's a way to structure the transactions such that less of them need to be remembered?
515 2010-12-12 08:25:04 <theymos> No. Unspent transactions need to be remembered if you want to check for double-spending.
516 2010-12-12 08:26:54 <appamatto> Hmm, you don't think something clever could be done?
517 2010-12-12 08:27:00 <Orbixx> Some form of self-contained encryption for the data files would be quite handy with bitcoin.
518 2010-12-12 08:27:13 <appamatto> for instance, republishing the old transactions after a certain horizon
519 2010-12-12 08:29:09 <nanotube> appamatto: how would that result in having to remember less of them? :P
520 2010-12-12 08:29:19 <appamatto> it doesn't :p
521 2010-12-12 08:29:23 <nanotube> hehe
522 2010-12-12 08:29:46 Insty has joined
523 2010-12-12 08:30:00 <theymos> There is no way to answer the question, "Have any of these outputs been spent before?" if you don't have the entire set of unspent/spendable transactions. You could make transactions expire and therefore cause them to be unspendable, but I don't think anyone wants that for Bitcoin.
524 2010-12-12 08:31:20 <Diablo-D3> theymos, chuck: yes, people have confirmed mines working on osx again
525 2010-12-12 08:32:46 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
526 2010-12-12 08:33:18 <appamatto> theymos, I wonder if you could trade the keys themselves
527 2010-12-12 08:33:48 <theymos> Instead of transactions?
528 2010-12-12 08:33:53 <appamatto> or something of that nature, to where the block chain wasn't mutating so often
529 2010-12-12 08:34:52 <Diablo-D3> appamatto: no
530 2010-12-12 08:34:58 <theymos> Any transacting out of the block chain allows double-spending.
531 2010-12-12 08:35:06 <Diablo-D3> because the system SHOULD reject a key that obviously isnt owned by an address
532 2010-12-12 08:35:17 <Diablo-D3> someone should double check that it does
533 2010-12-12 08:35:20 <appamatto> right
534 2010-12-12 08:36:20 <appamatto> and the minimum required to remember is the balance of each account
535 2010-12-12 08:36:31 <appamatto> and every account must be remembered in order to perform validation
536 2010-12-12 08:40:23 <appamatto> just thinking out loud. I'm just wondering if clients really need to validate the entire system each individually
537 2010-12-12 08:41:40 <Diablo-D3> individually? probably not
538 2010-12-12 08:41:48 <Diablo-D3> but its once every ten minutes
539 2010-12-12 08:41:53 <Diablo-D3> and it takes, what, an entire second?
540 2010-12-12 08:42:12 <appamatto> hmm, but the number of transactions is only growing
541 2010-12-12 08:42:46 <appamatto> I guess divisibility is the cause of that
542 2010-12-12 08:44:13 <appamatto> Maybe there could be some garbage collection where the oldest block is taken, then transactions are grouped by account, and then the new block contains a transaction spending all of those into the account, allowing them to combine
543 2010-12-12 08:45:29 <appamatto> wouldn't really save much
544 2010-12-12 08:52:24 <theymos> You can't use balance sheets unless you eliminate script.
545 2010-12-12 08:52:36 <appamatto> is that the O_DROP etc.?
546 2010-12-12 08:52:41 <theymos> Yes.
547 2010-12-12 08:52:52 <appamatto> What is the point of script?
548 2010-12-12 08:53:10 <theymos> It allows great extensibility. I think it's a fantastic feature.
549 2010-12-12 08:53:52 <theymos> For example, you could make a transaction that can be redeemed with a password instead of a public key. Or require 3 out of 5 listed public keys to sign.
550 2010-12-12 08:54:05 <appamatto> hmm
551 2010-12-12 08:54:19 <appamatto> that seems like overkill
552 2010-12-12 08:54:40 <MT`AwAy> it has been abused quite a bit
553 2010-12-12 08:54:49 <MT`AwAy> (enough for the isStandard() method to be added)
554 2010-12-12 08:55:07 <theymos> No it hasn't... There have been only four non-standard transactions ever.
555 2010-12-12 08:55:27 <appamatto> So if you had balance sheets then you could garbage-collect blocks pretty easily, I guess
556 2010-12-12 08:57:13 <theymos> How does a new peer reconstruct the current balance sheet?
557 2010-12-12 08:57:28 <appamatto> I was thinking a balance sheet for each block
558 2010-12-12 08:57:52 <appamatto> And when you spent any of the balance of that block, the block got market as used and the balance sheet merged with the current block
559 2010-12-12 09:00:45 <appamatto> Is there a balance sheet proposal somewhere that I could look at?
560 2010-12-12 09:02:24 <appamatto> It looks like current proposals have a single balance sheet that holds all accounts
561 2010-12-12 09:02:35 <theymos> ByteCoin has a thread about it. But he wanted to have balance sheets and regular Bitcoin coexist, which turned out to be less efficient, so I think he gave up on it.
562 2010-12-12 09:04:11 <appamatto> that's an interesting idea, about including the hash of bsheet in block n into block n+1
563 2010-12-12 09:04:13 zzop has joined
564 2010-12-12 09:04:35 <zzop> Hi
565 2010-12-12 09:04:40 <appamatto> Hello!
566 2010-12-12 09:05:22 <zzop> Hey guys, I just found this Bitcoin project
567 2010-12-12 09:05:32 <zzop> If it is as cool as I'm reading, wow. Congratulations. :)
568 2010-12-12 09:05:44 <appamatto> zzop, it's pretty darn cool
569 2010-12-12 09:05:55 <zzop> It seems like it could really be something.
570 2010-12-12 09:06:05 <appamatto> It's definitely the start of something
571 2010-12-12 09:06:22 <zzop> I've downloaded the app and it's found 1 connection. And it keeps counting up something called "blocks". What are blocks?
572 2010-12-12 09:06:55 <theymos> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block
573 2010-12-12 09:07:09 <Diablo-D3> zzop: information that you must have to use bitcoin.
574 2010-12-12 09:07:10 <zzop> theymos: Thank you!
575 2010-12-12 09:07:15 <Diablo-D3> theres currently about 90k of them
576 2010-12-12 09:07:32 <zzop> Is this able to run as a kind of system daemon without a GUI'd app (I am on Mac OS X)
577 2010-12-12 09:07:45 <MT`AwAy> zzop: use bitcoind for that
578 2010-12-12 09:07:48 <zzop> Diablo-D3: Does that mean that everybody has to know about every transaction? Is that sustainable?
579 2010-12-12 09:08:07 <appamatto> zzop, heh, I was just thinking about that problem :p
580 2010-12-12 09:08:10 <theymos> Clients don't need to know about transactions. Only generators. But client mode isn't totally finished, yet.
581 2010-12-12 09:08:12 <MT`AwAy> zzop: everyone's talking about dropping blocks which have become useless
582 2010-12-12 09:08:26 <zzop> MT`AwAy: How could you know for sure?
583 2010-12-12 09:08:50 <appamatto> zzop, but yes, everyone knows the complete history of the system because everyone polices the block chain
584 2010-12-12 09:09:07 <MT`AwAy> zzop: we know when a block no longer contains any useful information, we could drop those and only keep the headers for example (it's being discussed a lot lately)
585 2010-12-12 09:09:56 <theymos> "Forgetfulness" is not the main way of saving space. It will probably not be implemented for a long time, because it is somewhat unsafe. The main way is to just offload the work on generators: non-generators only need the block headers.
586 2010-12-12 09:10:15 <zzop> MT`AwAy: That's good. Because I think this is going to have some impressive use in low-bandwidth areas -- many African countries, for example (do you know that they currently trade cell phone minutes as currency in some states?)
587 2010-12-12 09:10:50 <appamatto> zzop, you could use bitcoin without any sort of involvement in the core network
588 2010-12-12 09:10:51 <MT`AwAy> zzop: well, anyway if you want to avoid having to download the blockchain you can also register on services such as mybitcoin
589 2010-12-12 09:11:01 <zzop> appamatto: Really
590 2010-12-12 09:11:03 <appamatto> it'd be like online banking
591 2010-12-12 09:11:03 <zzop> ?
592 2010-12-12 09:11:14 <appamatto> yes, mybitcoin as mentioned by MT`AwAy
593 2010-12-12 09:11:19 <zzop> Wow
594 2010-12-12 09:11:23 <MT`AwAy> it's just an example
595 2010-12-12 09:11:24 <zzop> I guess I'm misunderstanding something fundamental then
596 2010-12-12 09:11:33 <MT`AwAy> I think more of those services will appear in the future
597 2010-12-12 09:11:35 <appamatto> zzop, basically someone is running the real client on your behalf
598 2010-12-12 09:11:40 <zzop> appamatto: Aha
599 2010-12-12 09:11:57 <zzop> So you could literally integrate with "banks"
600 2010-12-12 09:12:06 <zzop> That's very interesting.
601 2010-12-12 09:12:08 <appamatto> Well, not the current banks
602 2010-12-12 09:12:17 <zzop> Sure, hence the quotation marks.
603 2010-12-12 09:12:32 <appamatto> but yes, bitcoin banks, or at least agents that manage your bitcoin addresses for you
604 2010-12-12 09:12:47 <MT`AwAy> I'm planning something similar :)
605 2010-12-12 09:12:53 <zzop> Damn, this is such a great idea. Have you guys ever gotten an audit from a Bruce Schneier-type?
606 2010-12-12 09:13:05 <appamatto> Is that a software audit?
607 2010-12-12 09:13:09 <zzop> Yes
608 2010-12-12 09:13:15 <appamatto> I'm almost sure we would fail
609 2010-12-12 09:13:22 <zzop> appamatto: Interesting. Why is that?
610 2010-12-12 09:13:23 <MT`AwAy> and it's too expensive anyway
611 2010-12-12 09:13:36 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Well, it's such a compelling idea that you might get someone to do it for free.
612 2010-12-12 09:13:52 <appamatto> The software and protocol are both probably too complicated right now. I think things are still shaking out
613 2010-12-12 09:13:57 <zzop> I already feel like I would be heartbroken if I found out that it had serious security vulnerabilities. God knows how I will feel when I start really using this :)
614 2010-12-12 09:14:08 <MT`AwAy> zzop: I do some auditing sometimes, but I wouldn't even look at the bitcoin software until it is tidied up a bit
615 2010-12-12 09:14:08 <thrashaholic> MT`AwAy: im a couple of weeks from something like that as well :)
616 2010-12-12 09:14:26 <appamatto> zzop, I don't think the idea or protocol have serious vulnerabilities, but the software probably has some vulnerabilities
617 2010-12-12 09:14:35 <zzop> Got it.
618 2010-12-12 09:14:42 <thrashaholic> so does cash in your wallet though
619 2010-12-12 09:14:50 <theymos> I'm not so sure Bitcoin would fail. A lot of effort has been put into making "remote attacker crashes the client" attacks impossible.
620 2010-12-12 09:15:06 <MT`AwAy> well, for example if you enable too many ips to access the rpc, even wth an ip, anyone can freeze the rpc
621 2010-12-12 09:15:16 <MT`AwAy> even with a password*
622 2010-12-12 09:15:21 <appamatto> everyone has the entire history, so even if there were something to happen it wouldn't mean everyone loses their btc or anything
623 2010-12-12 09:15:30 <zzop> theymos: A lot of eyes need to be looking at that code...
624 2010-12-12 09:15:49 <MT`AwAy> also we may have other clients by then :)
625 2010-12-12 09:15:54 <MT`AwAy> (I'm working on a bitcoin client right now)
626 2010-12-12 09:15:54 <appamatto> zzop, it's much more likely that someone will build a better bitcoin and there will be a currency war
627 2010-12-12 09:16:03 <zzop> Hey, have any of you ever tried forming local Bitcoin alliances -- to trade real goods and services?
628 2010-12-12 09:16:12 <zzop> appamatto: :-)
629 2010-12-12 09:16:16 <thrashaholic> there's no need for a "currency war" in that event
630 2010-12-12 09:16:18 <zzop> God we really live in interesting times.
631 2010-12-12 09:16:27 <MT`AwAy> zzop: there are already lots of people selling goods: http://www.bitcoin.org/trade
632 2010-12-12 09:16:47 <appamatto> zzop, hehe. I'm working on an alternative system called bitx, which aims to support apps other than bitcoin on the same block chain
633 2010-12-12 09:16:59 <zzop> The Wikileaks and Bitcoin era. Damn fine times.
634 2010-12-12 09:17:07 <zzop> appamatto: Whoa. How?
635 2010-12-12 09:17:17 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Yes, but locally?
636 2010-12-12 09:17:23 <zzop> I mean that's where this is going to start having real power.
637 2010-12-12 09:18:03 <appamatto> zzop, basically a stripped down protocol that can include "ablocks" or app blocks from multiple apps and allow a miner to generate once and reap multiple benefits
638 2010-12-12 09:18:09 <MT`AwAy> zzop: transactions take about one hour to be "confirmed", it wouldn't be really good in physical transactions
639 2010-12-12 09:18:24 <zzop> I just Googled "bitcoin wikipedia" so I could have a writeup to send my non-tech friends, and am a bit disappointed by the result :(
640 2010-12-12 09:18:40 <zzop> appamatto: That's great.
641 2010-12-12 09:18:40 <appamatto> there is an article in the wikipedia incubator
642 2010-12-12 09:18:40 <theymos> 0 confirmations works fine in small-scale cases.
643 2010-12-12 09:19:01 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Ah, that's not so great. Can it be improved?
644 2010-12-12 09:19:13 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Because my mind was immediately drifting towards making a Bitcoin iPhone app
645 2010-12-12 09:19:39 <MT`AwAy> zzop: the main issue here is to protect against "double spending"
646 2010-12-12 09:19:42 <appamatto> zzop, it's possible to allow a variable block creation rate in a bitcoin-like application
647 2010-12-12 09:19:55 <zzop> MT`AwAy: I'll read up about that.
648 2010-12-12 09:20:01 <appamatto> if there were more blocks per unit time that might have a positive effect on confirmation confidence
649 2010-12-12 09:20:38 <MT`AwAy> zzop: solutions are being though of too :)
650 2010-12-12 09:20:52 <zzop> I guess the main point is that you CAN use this now.
651 2010-12-12 09:21:04 <MT`AwAy> but right now I'm more busy thinking about my ECC implementaion getting wrong public keys >.<
652 2010-12-12 09:21:21 <zzop> Could I pretty easily build a GUI on top of bitcoind ?
653 2010-12-12 09:21:22 <appamatto> zzop, yes, and compared with paypal, there are no chargebacks. So it is infinitely better for some purposes :p
654 2010-12-12 09:21:31 <MT`AwAy> zzop: yep
655 2010-12-12 09:21:50 <zzop> MT`AwAy: And bitcoind is fairly low-resource? Could run on a mobile phone without heinous battery usage for example?
656 2010-12-12 09:22:03 <appamatto> I think someone has an android client
657 2010-12-12 09:22:08 <zzop> Oh!
658 2010-12-12 09:22:12 <MT`AwAy> zzop: no
659 2010-12-12 09:22:33 <thrashaholic> nobody has an android client that im aware of, otherwise i just lost my bounty.
660 2010-12-12 09:22:43 <MT`AwAy> zzop: the guy writing the android client (tcatm) for now is thinking about having bitcoind running on a computer, or having his client connect to a "bank-like" service
661 2010-12-12 09:22:52 <zzop> MT`AwAy: I was just thinking of the exact same thing
662 2010-12-12 09:22:55 <thrashaholic> yes that is the solution
663 2010-12-12 09:22:58 <zzop> MT`AwAy: That probably makes more sense.
664 2010-12-12 09:23:14 <thrashaholic> besides, you dont want your wallet and keys on a phone
665 2010-12-12 09:23:23 <MT`AwAy> if anyone wants to make a bitcoin client on mobile (iphone/android/etc) I can provide an API for the server counterpart
666 2010-12-12 09:23:24 <zzop> thrashaholic: That's right.
667 2010-12-12 09:23:30 <MT`AwAy> (and servers, too)
668 2010-12-12 09:23:37 <thrashaholic> there is already an api
669 2010-12-12 09:23:41 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Let me see if I can clear out some time; I'm very interested.
670 2010-12-12 09:23:48 <zzop> I wonder if I could write it in Titanium...
671 2010-12-12 09:23:58 <MT`AwAy> thrashaholic: there are some apis, but most are not aimed exactly at this kind of usage
672 2010-12-12 09:24:07 <MT`AwAy> zzop: I was thinking of using phonegap :p
673 2010-12-12 09:24:31 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Have you checked out Titanium? Compared to Phonegap it's a breath of fresh air. :)
674 2010-12-12 09:24:32 <appamatto> theymos, I think bsheets might be the way to go for my version
675 2010-12-12 09:24:47 <MT`AwAy> zzop: no time yet, I'm busy writing a bitcoin client for PC right now
676 2010-12-12 09:24:51 <appamatto> was there any downside to them, other than compatibility with the current bitcoin?
677 2010-12-12 09:24:52 <thrashaholic> i dont think theres a reason to even do "native" mobile apps
678 2010-12-12 09:25:17 <zzop> thrashaholic: The real reason is to make it look and feel beautiful. :)
679 2010-12-12 09:25:31 <thrashaholic> you can do this with html5 and css3
680 2010-12-12 09:25:46 <thrashaholic> the only reason not to is to have something downloadable from whatever market
681 2010-12-12 09:25:48 <zzop> thrashaholic: You can do approximations. :-)
682 2010-12-12 09:25:51 <thrashaholic> no
683 2010-12-12 09:25:54 <thrashaholic> you can do some wild shit
684 2010-12-12 09:26:02 Toadyonps3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
685 2010-12-12 09:26:02 <theymos> appamatto: I wouldn't be surprised if there's some implementation issue. It just sounds wrong to me. It's less space-efficient for clients than running in Merkle tree mode, too.
686 2010-12-12 09:26:14 <zzop> Show me. I've never seen a really convincing iOS 'emulation' on an HTML5 site
687 2010-12-12 09:26:29 <thrashaholic> one second
688 2010-12-12 09:26:32 <appamatto> theymos, what is the point of the Merkle tree?
689 2010-12-12 09:27:06 <theymos> appamatto: You can securely get the number of confirmations by downloading only the block headers and a handful of transactions in the same branch as your transactions.
690 2010-12-12 09:27:19 <thrashaholic> seen this: http://graphicpeel.com/cssiosicons ?
691 2010-12-12 09:27:26 <zzop> checking...
692 2010-12-12 09:27:32 <thrashaholic> in chrome or safari
693 2010-12-12 09:27:35 <thrashaholic> ff won't work
694 2010-12-12 09:27:57 Toadyonps3 has joined
695 2010-12-12 09:28:07 <zzop> thrashaholic: Damn!
696 2010-12-12 09:28:10 <thrashaholic> yeah
697 2010-12-12 09:28:10 <zzop> thrashaholic: That's beautiful.
698 2010-12-12 09:28:14 <thrashaholic> that's the tip of the iceberg
699 2010-12-12 09:28:20 <zzop> thrashaholic: Slow as hell, but beautiful. :-)
700 2010-12-12 09:28:32 m0mchil has joined
701 2010-12-12 09:28:36 <thrashaholic> i've written nicer shit but am unable to show it to the public right now
702 2010-12-12 09:28:39 <appamatto> hmm, actually I don't see how you can prevent the duplicate usage of a signed transaction if you only have a balance
703 2010-12-12 09:28:54 <zzop> thrashaholic: Sounds like you should be the one designing this app then.
704 2010-12-12 09:29:19 <thrashaholic> i'm balls deep in erlang and DNS right now, and have lots of other stuff on the plate before that
705 2010-12-12 09:29:27 <zzop> thrashaholic: fair. :)
706 2010-12-12 09:29:32 <theymos> appamatto: Yeah; you can't. In a system without scripts, though, I don't know if this is a problem.
707 2010-12-12 09:29:35 <thrashaholic> maybe after the first of the year ill have time
708 2010-12-12 09:29:45 <thrashaholic> anyway....girlfriend time :)
709 2010-12-12 09:29:48 <zzop> Cheers thrashaholic
710 2010-12-12 09:30:00 <zzop> Folks, quick question: Does "Generating Coins" actually get me a few free coins?
711 2010-12-12 09:30:00 <appamatto> theymos, for example, if you sign "I'm foo giving 5btc to bar" that could be used multiple times
712 2010-12-12 09:30:14 <appamatto> theymos since it doesn't refer to a specific tx output
713 2010-12-12 09:30:25 <zzop> And how long does it take?
714 2010-12-12 09:30:37 <theymos> appamatto: True. You've found the flaw (probably one of many).
715 2010-12-12 09:31:03 <appamatto> theymos, I guess you'd keep a link to the block in which the balance last changed and reference that in your signed tx request
716 2010-12-12 09:31:16 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: that's why you need the merkle tree
717 2010-12-12 09:31:28 <MT`AwAy> so the same transaction cannot be used more than once
718 2010-12-12 09:31:37 <theymos> appamatto: Blocks change. You can't reference them.
719 2010-12-12 09:32:06 <appamatto> peeling off a block would peel off the bsheet
720 2010-12-12 09:32:07 <zzop> Also... I'm really curious: What is the development team structure like? Is there one main developer, or many now?
721 2010-12-12 09:32:25 <MT`AwAy> thrashaholic: it's ugly (the css icons, they don't look nice at all)
722 2010-12-12 09:32:47 <theymos> zzop: Satoshi wrote everything originally. A few developers now help with non-design stuff.
723 2010-12-12 09:32:52 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Are you looking at them in Safari?
724 2010-12-12 09:32:58 <MT`AwAy> zzop: nope, chromium
725 2010-12-12 09:33:03 <zzop> theymos: Is he still supporting it?
726 2010-12-12 09:33:11 <zzop> MT`AwAy: They look GREAT in Safari
727 2010-12-12 09:33:15 <theymos> zzop: Yes.
728 2010-12-12 09:33:20 <appamatto> theymos, let's say you had 50 btc and then you got 50 more in block 123abc. Then the balance sheet would read "foo 123abc 100btc" until your balance changed
729 2010-12-12 09:33:24 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Although they both use WebKit don't they? Hmmm...
730 2010-12-12 09:33:41 <zzop> theymos: Does Satoshi lurk in here?
731 2010-12-12 09:33:47 <theymos> zzop: Never.
732 2010-12-12 09:33:50 <zzop> Interesting.
733 2010-12-12 09:33:53 <MT`AwAy> zzop: http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8164/chromiumoutput.png
734 2010-12-12 09:33:55 <zzop> Is he a real person? ;-)
735 2010-12-12 09:34:04 <appamatto> theymos, then you could refer to that specific block in you tx request, no?
736 2010-12-12 09:34:07 <theymos> zzop: Probably a pseudonym.
737 2010-12-12 09:34:08 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Oh yeah, that's totally fucked up.
738 2010-12-12 09:34:10 <MT`AwAy> zzop: maybe, but what's sure is his name is not Satoshi
739 2010-12-12 09:34:35 <appamatto> Are you sure his name isn't Satoshi Nakamoto?
740 2010-12-12 09:34:44 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: I'm sure it's not
741 2010-12-12 09:34:47 <zzop> Jesus, this is a great story. I'm amazed the NY Times hasn't picked up on it yet.
742 2010-12-12 09:34:57 <appamatto> MT, is there a reference?
743 2010-12-12 09:35:06 <MT`AwAy> zzop: http://shot.dns.st/http_full/graphicpeel.com/cssiosicons <- render in an almost unmodified webkit, looks better
744 2010-12-12 09:35:09 <doublec> zzop, I have bitcoind running on my phone
745 2010-12-12 09:35:24 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Yeah, that's almost proper.
746 2010-12-12 09:35:26 <doublec> zzop, it runs fine, doesn't use too much battery
747 2010-12-12 09:35:31 <zzop> doublec: Android?
748 2010-12-12 09:35:33 <theymos> appamatto: Then what if 123abc gets removed from the main chain? The later transaction will become invalid.
749 2010-12-12 09:35:34 <doublec> zzop, Nokia N900
750 2010-12-12 09:35:35 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: it's just not possible for Satoshi to be japanese, and highly unlikely he'd give his real name
751 2010-12-12 09:35:42 <zzop> doublec: OK, that's good to know.
752 2010-12-12 09:35:49 <MT`AwAy> seems like my font rendering is broken
753 2010-12-12 09:35:55 <zzop> doublec: But I agree with these guys that you wouldn't want your wallet stored locally on the phone
754 2010-12-12 09:36:02 <appamatto> theymos, yes, that's the point. The tx request is contingent on nothing happening to your balance in between
755 2010-12-12 09:36:13 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Why do you say Just Not Possible? :-)
756 2010-12-12 09:36:27 <theymos> appamatto: Bitcoin is not contingent on that. Your transactions survive no matter what happens to blocks.
757 2010-12-12 09:36:28 <doublec> zzop, I like having my wallet stored on my phone
758 2010-12-12 09:36:31 <MT`AwAy> zzop: I live in Japan and know a lot about japanese people :p
759 2010-12-12 09:36:36 <appamatto> theymos, that might be a bug though
760 2010-12-12 09:36:44 <appamatto> or at least not a feature
761 2010-12-12 09:36:48 <zzop> MT`AwAy: You think the idea is too radical for Japan? I'm sure there are some radicals there...
762 2010-12-12 09:36:51 <MT`AwAy> doublec: that's a possible option with what I'm thinking about
763 2010-12-12 09:37:02 <appamatto> theymos, that block label wouldn't change for each block, just the ones that impact your balance
764 2010-12-12 09:37:15 <theymos> appamatto: I would not appreciate my transactions being lost due to network instability...
765 2010-12-12 09:37:31 <zzop> What is the real risk to you if your wallet is stolen?
766 2010-12-12 09:37:48 <theymos> zzop: All of your bitcoins will be gone.
767 2010-12-12 09:37:54 <doublec> You lose your coins, just like if you lose your real wallet
768 2010-12-12 09:37:58 <zzop> theymos: And if you have a backup?
769 2010-12-12 09:38:05 <theymos> Still gone.
770 2010-12-12 09:38:09 <doublec> So I keep an amount of coins on my phone I'm comfortable with losing
771 2010-12-12 09:38:11 <MT`AwAy> [18:35:43] <zzop> MT`AwAy: You think the idea is too radical for Japan? I'm sure there are some radicals there... <- I'm not talking about the idea but the app, the lack of japanese language, etc
772 2010-12-12 09:38:13 <zzop> theymos: Really? Why?
773 2010-12-12 09:38:18 <zzop> MT`AwAy: True.
774 2010-12-12 09:38:25 <theymos> zzop: The attacker will spend them. Transactions are irreversible.
775 2010-12-12 09:38:29 <zzop> Oh, right.
776 2010-12-12 09:38:34 <appamatto> theymos, it could only be lost if your last transaction got repealed
777 2010-12-12 09:38:37 <zzop> So it seems necessary to cryptographically secure one's wallet.
778 2010-12-12 09:38:58 <zzop> I'm surprised that's not built-in already.
779 2010-12-12 09:39:00 <appamatto> theymos, so let's say it doesn't update everytime you get money, but just every time you send money
780 2010-12-12 09:39:04 <MT`AwAy> doublec: I thought about how to do that, and it's possible (and easy) too :)
781 2010-12-12 09:39:50 pere has joined
782 2010-12-12 09:39:54 <zzop> doublec: Why not just put the wallet into a tiny truecrypt image or something like this, and synchronize it? Or better yet, again, why isn't wallet encryption built-in? :-)
783 2010-12-12 09:40:15 <appamatto> theymos, that would be enough to disallow tx duplication, and the only downside would be if your last send got forked, but that could be reapplied using the same previous txn
784 2010-12-12 09:40:18 <pere> where should bitcoin but reports be sent?
785 2010-12-12 09:40:29 <pere> s/but/bug/
786 2010-12-12 09:40:34 <doublec> zzop, because I prefer having seperate wallets
787 2010-12-12 09:40:38 <zzop> doublec: Got it.
788 2010-12-12 09:40:41 <doublec> zzop, it's trivial to transfer coins around
789 2010-12-12 09:41:06 <zzop> Nevertheless, this is a problem that will need to be solved. It's also possible to steal someone's computer, after all. ;-)
790 2010-12-12 09:41:07 <appamatto> zzop, one cool bitcoin phenomenon is that people have tons of addresses
791 2010-12-12 09:41:09 <doublec> zzop, my phone is encrypted so not much problem of someone actually stealing my coins
792 2010-12-12 09:41:16 <doublec> zzop, I just don't currently back the wallet up
793 2010-12-12 09:41:23 <zzop> Understood.
794 2010-12-12 09:41:38 Myckel has joined
795 2010-12-12 09:41:42 <zzop> appamatto: Yeah I was just reading about that.
796 2010-12-12 09:42:12 <theymos> pere: Email satoshin@gmx.com .
797 2010-12-12 09:42:30 <zzop> Satoshin also uses a GMX account :) Interesting.
798 2010-12-12 09:43:11 <zzop> theymos: No bug tracker?
799 2010-12-12 09:43:15 <theymos> No.
800 2010-12-12 09:43:26 <appamatto> MT, I used to live in Japan, I know that most Japanese people can't speak English like Satoshi, but don't you think he could be a Japanese-American gone back to Japan or maybe raised in the US but ethnically Japanese, etc.?
801 2010-12-12 09:43:38 <pere> theymos: thank you.
802 2010-12-12 09:44:19 <appamatto> It'd be really funny if kiba was Satoshi
803 2010-12-12 09:44:39 <appamatto> since kiba is a Japanese word :p
804 2010-12-12 09:45:09 <appamatto> or maybe I'm Satoshi but I don't know it due to some Fight Club-esque mental condition
805 2010-12-12 09:45:24 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: other details are just wrong
806 2010-12-12 09:45:30 <MT`AwAy> first, why is there no version of bitcoin in japanese ?
807 2010-12-12 09:45:39 <MT`AwAy> why would he write his first name first in the about box ?
808 2010-12-12 09:45:42 <appamatto> because Satoshi's first language is English?
809 2010-12-12 09:45:57 <MT`AwAy> why would he give his real name while all the other informations are hidden ?
810 2010-12-12 09:46:13 <theymos> Why was his PGP public key created a month before starting the project?
811 2010-12-12 09:46:17 <appamatto> because he's paranoid but knows that real names establish credibility?
812 2010-12-12 09:46:51 <appamatto> If he wanted a pseudonym he should've chosen John Galt :p
813 2010-12-12 09:47:35 <OneFixt> you could ask him if it's his real name =)
814 2010-12-12 09:48:19 <theymos> Who is Hal on the forum? Satoshi seemed to know of him.
815 2010-12-12 09:48:21 <johndrinkwater> Suggest you can sign his pgp key, but you need to meet him first..
816 2010-12-12 09:49:45 <appamatto> Hmm, there are almost no results for Satoshi unrelated to bitcoin
817 2010-12-12 09:50:21 <theymos> You can clearly see that he appears on Earth a month or two before the genesis block was created.
818 2010-12-12 09:50:22 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: I never found anyone with his name anywhere, and it seems to only be used in the context of bitcoin
819 2010-12-12 09:51:09 <MT`AwAy> everything seems to hint to "Nakamoto Satoshi" exists only for the purpose of bitcoin
820 2010-12-12 09:51:46 <appamatto> holy crap
821 2010-12-12 09:51:57 <appamatto> but he uses that name for the very first mention of bitcoin
822 2010-12-12 09:52:25 <appamatto> maybe we need to use a programming style analysis program and then compare it to samples from other open source projects
823 2010-12-12 09:52:36 <theymos> Like all other attacks, he anticipated an attack against the Bitcoin developer.
824 2010-12-12 09:53:09 <appamatto> haha
825 2010-12-12 09:53:21 <MT`AwAy> also satoshi's email is a free gmx.com email
826 2010-12-12 09:53:31 <appamatto> he's just going to be on a yacht somewhere, the richest person in the world next to ArtForz
827 2010-12-12 09:53:38 <appamatto> in 20 years
828 2010-12-12 09:54:16 <appamatto> Is he using Tor?
829 2010-12-12 09:55:17 <appamatto> http://postbiota.org/pipermail/tt/2009-January/004249.html
830 2010-12-12 09:55:37 <MT`AwAy> possibly
831 2010-12-12 09:56:49 <appamatto> You'd think he'd actually be in this room
832 2010-12-12 09:57:45 <MT`AwAy> and laughing at me because his name really is Satoshi
833 2010-12-12 09:57:46 <MT`AwAy> :D
834 2010-12-12 09:57:50 <appamatto> haha
835 2010-12-12 09:58:44 <zzop> vistomail...
836 2010-12-12 09:58:56 <appamatto> Maybe his real name is Prometheus
837 2010-12-12 09:58:57 m0mchil has left ()
838 2010-12-12 09:59:07 <MT`AwAy> http://social.wakoopa.com/software/bitcoin/review/83437 <- lol
839 2010-12-12 09:59:47 <appamatto> I hope the cat actually wrote that
840 2010-12-12 10:00:07 <appamatto> Yeah, I think you're right
841 2010-12-12 10:00:35 <appamatto> Someone with the nuts to just come out with bitcoin without consulting with anyone, without a single reference in any open source project
842 2010-12-12 10:00:47 <zzop> appamatto: That's the way the world will change. :)
843 2010-12-12 10:00:51 <zzop> Fucking love these times.
844 2010-12-12 10:01:00 <MT`AwAy> :D
845 2010-12-12 10:01:18 <zzop> But seriously -- no bug tracker? come on guys. :-)
846 2010-12-12 10:01:25 <MT`AwAy> anyawy does anyone here have a strong knowledge of EC crypto and help me fix my public key generation ?
847 2010-12-12 10:01:41 <MT`AwAy> zzop: I'll have one with my bitcoin client :p
848 2010-12-12 10:01:59 <zzop> MT`AwAy: What platforms are you supporting?
849 2010-12-12 10:02:06 <MT`AwAy> zzop: linux/mac/windows
850 2010-12-12 10:02:11 <zzop> Super.
851 2010-12-12 10:02:14 <MT`AwAy> (using Qt)
852 2010-12-12 10:02:16 <zzop> GTK? :-)
853 2010-12-12 10:02:17 <zzop> OK
854 2010-12-12 10:03:13 <zzop> Is IRC really used to bootstrap this thing?
855 2010-12-12 10:03:16 <MT`AwAy> anyway in Japanese I can think of how "Nakamoto" is written (inside+origin), but what about Satoshi? There are roughly 55 common methods to write it
856 2010-12-12 10:03:22 <MT`AwAy> zzop: yep, it's the fastest
857 2010-12-12 10:03:25 pere has left ("Forlater kanalen")
858 2010-12-12 10:03:27 <MT`AwAy> if you want you can run bitcoin with -noirc flag
859 2010-12-12 10:03:44 <zzop> Any way to see how many nodes are active on the network?
860 2010-12-12 10:03:45 <appamatto> MT, yeah, there are a few that are popular
861 2010-12-12 10:04:04 <zzop> MT`AwAy: PS, will your client have UPnP support?
862 2010-12-12 10:04:08 <theymos> zzop: Count the peers on IRC to get a rough number. Look at the peers listed in addr.dat for more accuracy.
863 2010-12-12 10:04:10 <zzop> MT`AwAy: And maybe... Randomized ports?
864 2010-12-12 10:04:14 <MT`AwAy> zzop: the irc channel contains ~850 users, add all the users who can't/don't connect to IRC and you get an estimate
865 2010-12-12 10:04:26 <appamatto> zzop, you also can calculate the global hash rate
866 2010-12-12 10:04:30 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Well that's really not a lot is it.
867 2010-12-12 10:04:35 <MT`AwAy> zzop: randomized port is impossible with bitcoin protocol for now
868 2010-12-12 10:04:54 <MT`AwAy> uPnP wouldn't be difficult, could you post about it in https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,4.0.html ?
869 2010-12-12 10:05:01 <appamatto> going to hit the sack guys. Thanks for the discussion
870 2010-12-12 10:05:07 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: good night
871 2010-12-12 10:05:07 <zzop> MT`AwAy: Sure!
872 2010-12-12 10:05:09 <zzop> cheers appamatto
873 2010-12-12 10:05:12 <theymos> MT`AwAy: Why? Bitcoin supports arbitrary ports.
874 2010-12-12 10:05:22 <theymos> Bad for addr propagation?
875 2010-12-12 10:05:26 <MT`AwAy> theymos: you can't receive incoming connections if you're not in port 8333
876 2010-12-12 10:05:41 <MT`AwAy> ie, the bitcoin bootstrap/protocol propagates only the ip, not the port
877 2010-12-12 10:05:53 <theymos> The port is propagated.
878 2010-12-12 10:06:06 <MT`AwAy> (well, for the protocol I'm not sure yet, still working on the wallet)
879 2010-12-12 10:06:08 <MT`AwAy> ok
880 2010-12-12 10:06:19 <zzop> MT`AwAy: So I'll post about both :)
881 2010-12-12 10:06:20 <MT`AwAy> well, would need to add the port to irc bootstrap then
882 2010-12-12 10:06:40 <MT`AwAy> wouldn't be too difficult (for example use the port as username so it's in the WHO reply)
883 2010-12-12 10:06:50 <MT`AwAy> or make the port part of the nickname
884 2010-12-12 10:07:04 <theymos> MT`AwAy: Already done. Port+IP is encoded in the nick.
885 2010-12-12 10:07:12 <MT`AwAy> theymos: not in 0.3.18
886 2010-12-12 10:07:15 <theymos> Yes.
887 2010-12-12 10:07:19 <zzop> :D
888 2010-12-12 10:07:38 <theymos> The nicks are not random numbers/letters. They are encoded IPs/Ports.
889 2010-12-12 10:07:46 <MT`AwAy> strMyName = strprintf("x%u", GetRand(1000000000));
890 2010-12-12 10:08:20 <MT`AwAy> ok, I see EncodeAddress
891 2010-12-12 10:08:42 <MT`AwAy> using the now famous base58
892 2010-12-12 10:09:06 <MT`AwAy> (which means I probably should move base58 functions to a common lib)
893 2010-12-12 10:09:30 <theymos> Now that you mention it, though, I believe Bitcoin will not make outgoing connections to non-standard ports if it has any peers on standard ports.
894 2010-12-12 10:09:35 <zzop> MT`AwAy: I look forward to your client with randomized ports and UPnP support :)
895 2010-12-12 10:10:13 <MT`AwAy> theymos: the only problem with this might be ipv6 nah? if it's a normal irc server, nick limit is 31 chars
896 2010-12-12 10:10:28 <MT`AwAy> need to check if this fits ...
897 2010-12-12 10:10:59 <theymos> Room for IPv6 is in addr messages, at least. We'll probably have moved away from IRC by then.
898 2010-12-12 10:11:26 <MT`AwAy> I'm planning if we do bitdns to add the ability to find nodes using dns queries :p
899 2010-12-12 10:11:43 <zzop> Where does bitcoin store the wallets file on MacOS X?
900 2010-12-12 10:11:48 <zzop> And its settings, for that matter...
901 2010-12-12 10:12:03 <theymos> ~/Library/Application Support/Bitcoin/
902 2010-12-12 10:12:07 <zzop> Thanks
903 2010-12-12 10:12:17 <zzop> I thought it would be sloppier than that!
904 2010-12-12 10:12:24 <zzop> I was expecting ~/.bitcoin or something ;-)
905 2010-12-12 10:13:04 <theymos> I think it uses a wx function to find the default settings directory.
906 2010-12-12 10:13:31 <zzop> Dope. I guess that's one good thing about WX :)
907 2010-12-12 10:14:13 <zzop> Why is everyone on the forums worried about an 'association' with Wikileaks anyway?
908 2010-12-12 10:14:36 <theymos> Satoshi said that Wikileaks should not use Bitcoin, as it would destroy the network.
909 2010-12-12 10:15:02 <zzop> Why would it destroy the network?
910 2010-12-12 10:15:13 <MT`AwAy> zzop: too young, probably
911 2010-12-12 10:15:27 <zzop> BTW, *genius*: http://ubitio.us/file/upload
912 2010-12-12 10:15:34 <zzop> Who made that?
913 2010-12-12 10:16:09 <MT`AwAy> zzop: there are many clones around the web, like http://pastecoin.com/
914 2010-12-12 10:16:27 <theymos> The network architechture physically can't handle it, either. Propagation would be intolerable if that many users joined, I would bet. And we don't have enough CPU power to defend against big attackers. And only 22 seednodes are online. And Bitcoin code is currently vulnerable to DoS attacks...
915 2010-12-12 10:16:27 <zzop> That's so smart.
916 2010-12-12 10:17:06 <zzop> theymos: Better get those things in order, I have a feeling this is going to really pick up next year.
917 2010-12-12 10:18:01 <zzop> I wonder if the EFF would help this project.
918 2010-12-12 10:18:11 <theymos> They accept Bitcoin donations, at least.
919 2010-12-12 10:18:20 <zzop> :D
920 2010-12-12 10:18:38 <zzop> Yes but I mean, it would be nice if they helped put together a donor pool or something.
921 2010-12-12 10:19:20 <theymos> The EFF has gotten quite a few donations through Bitcoin: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt
922 2010-12-12 10:20:36 * MT`AwAy donated to the EFF through bitcoin
923 2010-12-12 10:21:44 <zzop> Did the value of a bitcoin really go from almost nothing to 50 cents?
924 2010-12-12 10:21:55 <zzop> Or was that a temporary anomaly?
925 2010-12-12 10:22:21 <theymos> 50 cents was a temporary anomaly. It did go naturally up to ~30 cents, though.
926 2010-12-12 10:22:44 <theymos> I used to sell at 0.003. :(
927 2010-12-12 10:22:50 <zzop> :D
928 2010-12-12 10:25:37 <zzop> How about userbase increases? What is the increase looking like month-by-month?
929 2010-12-12 10:26:11 <theymos> You can check this page: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?action=stats
930 2010-12-12 10:28:52 <zzop> Great
931 2010-12-12 10:28:58 <zzop> And BTW this Tahoe-LAFS filesystem looks nice too :)
932 2010-12-12 10:30:01 altamic has joined
933 2010-12-12 10:38:59 <zzop> Has anyone here spoken with The Pirate Bay people about donating servers and CPU power to the project?
934 2010-12-12 10:40:30 <MT`AwAy> zzop: cpu power is useless
935 2010-12-12 10:40:33 <MT`AwAy> gpu power is the thing
936 2010-12-12 10:40:55 <MT`AwAy> and the project is likely too small/weak to interest people like TPB
937 2010-12-12 10:43:06 <zzop> Well, I wouldn't be too sure...
938 2010-12-12 10:43:11 <zzop> This seems right up their alley.
939 2010-12-12 10:43:21 <zzop> And really, GPU power? :-)
940 2010-12-12 10:46:32 <MT`AwAy> with a CPU you generate at most 15000khash/sec, while a GPU generates much more easily
941 2010-12-12 10:49:13 <zzop> Do the current clients use the GPU at all?
942 2010-12-12 10:49:36 <theymos> Not the official client. There are GPU miners available.
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958 2010-12-12 11:52:21 <thrashaholic> doublec: you have an n900? nice...i was happy to hear they finally made that sucker a proper phone
959 2010-12-12 11:52:35 <thrashaholic> too damn expensive for my tastes, though
960 2010-12-12 11:53:19 <thrashaholic> and isnt there some issue with the frequencies it uses for 3g?
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965 2010-12-12 12:25:02 <doublec> thrashaholic, no issues with the frequencies that I'm aware of
966 2010-12-12 12:25:10 <doublec> thrashaholic, but the freqs for NZ are different to the US
967 2010-12-12 12:25:28 <doublec> thrashaholic, I don't think they support the common US 3G freq
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969 2010-12-12 12:26:16 altamic_ is now known as altamic
970 2010-12-12 12:26:32 <Diablo-D3> doesnt nz use euro freqs?
971 2010-12-12 12:27:29 <thrashaholic> right, they support only one of the US 3g frequencies iirc
972 2010-12-12 12:27:31 <doublec> Diablo-D3, uses 2100 and some areas of 900
973 2010-12-12 12:27:43 <thrashaholic> tmobile's i believe
974 2010-12-12 12:28:17 <thrashaholic> i loved my n800 though
975 2010-12-12 12:28:25 <thrashaholic> damn fine piece of hardware
976 2010-12-12 12:28:58 <thrashaholic> i like my g2 though
977 2010-12-12 12:29:06 noagendamarket has joined
978 2010-12-12 12:29:19 <doublec> I like the N900, being able to run pretty much anything linux on it.
979 2010-12-12 12:29:28 <doublec> The Android phones are pretty nice too though
980 2010-12-12 12:29:40 <doublec> The new Nexus is tempting
981 2010-12-12 12:30:05 <doublec> particularly since work will pay for it
982 2010-12-12 12:30:47 <doublec> Nokia have all but deprecated the N900 already sadly
983 2010-12-12 12:36:42 <thrashaholic> nokia is on its way out
984 2010-12-12 12:36:57 <thrashaholic> at least here in the us, they have no compelling offerings
985 2010-12-12 12:51:20 <xelister_> heh apparently some policeman in USA beat up polish wemen that refused to pick up a dog poo (because it was not her dog that did it)
986 2010-12-12 12:51:52 <xelister_> it reminds me of that time white policeman punched in face some "nigger girl" as he probably would describe her
987 2010-12-12 12:51:54 <thrashaholic> is it on video?
988 2010-12-12 12:52:02 <noagendamarket> the poop?
989 2010-12-12 12:52:10 <xelister_> 'dog shit'
990 2010-12-12 12:52:11 <thrashaholic> the whole incident
991 2010-12-12 12:52:14 <noagendamarket> haha
992 2010-12-12 12:52:28 <xelister_> it's good to know that such freedom loving people like usa gov. are [trying to be] the police of world
993 2010-12-12 12:52:35 <thrashaholic> cops here are dicks but i kinda doubt that story just on the face of it
994 2010-12-12 12:52:54 <xelister_> the polish dog walker - I dont know ; the whiteass policeman beating a girl in face for no good reason - yes
995 2010-12-12 12:53:08 <thrashaholic> he probaby had a reason
996 2010-12-12 12:53:12 <noagendamarket> he wanted her to polish his boots
997 2010-12-12 12:53:27 <noagendamarket> *groans
998 2010-12-12 12:53:32 <thrashaholic> she was probably a loud mouthed hood rat spouting off shit
999 2010-12-12 12:53:34 <xelister_> no she wanted to not be arrested or something. but she was not fighting him or anything
1000 2010-12-12 12:53:40 <xelister_> yes
1001 2010-12-12 12:53:41 <thrashaholic> rule number 1: dont fuck with the cops
1002 2010-12-12 12:53:48 <xelister_> well you americans are fucking slaves
1003 2010-12-12 12:53:58 <thrashaholic> i am no slave sir
1004 2010-12-12 12:54:06 <thrashaholic> keep your assumptions to yourself :)
1005 2010-12-12 12:54:11 <xelister_> even in corrupted shit contries like poland, the police oppresion is more settled and civilized it seems
1006 2010-12-12 12:54:46 <xelister_> police quality: russia < damn usa < poland < ?
1007 2010-12-12 12:55:01 <Diablo-D3> japan
1008 2010-12-12 12:55:07 <Diablo-D3> they're somewhere near the top
1009 2010-12-12 12:55:13 <xelister_> woot
1010 2010-12-12 12:55:56 <thrashaholic> all of africa < all of south america < uk < russia < usa, etc...etc...
1011 2010-12-12 12:56:19 <xelister_> wonder if there is any country when police basically is in fact the good guys
1012 2010-12-12 12:56:23 <xelister_> japans you say? something else/more?
1013 2010-12-12 12:56:25 <thrashaholic> canadian police are probably near the top
1014 2010-12-12 12:56:25 <noagendamarket> australia still has a queen
1015 2010-12-12 12:56:46 <noagendamarket> ffs so does canada lol
1016 2010-12-12 12:56:52 <thrashaholic> yup
1017 2010-12-12 12:56:56 <thrashaholic> well
1018 2010-12-12 12:57:01 <thrashaholic> not quebec ;P
1019 2010-12-12 12:57:09 <noagendamarket> na they are french
1020 2010-12-12 12:57:33 <noagendamarket> who dont take shit lying down...oh wait..
1021 2010-12-12 12:57:38 <thrashaholic> lol
1022 2010-12-12 12:57:42 <noagendamarket> lol
1023 2010-12-12 12:57:52 <thrashaholic> "for sale: french surplus military rifles - never fire, dropped once"
1024 2010-12-12 12:57:58 <thrashaholic> fired*
1025 2010-12-12 12:58:06 <Diablo-D3> fail
1026 2010-12-12 12:58:57 <thrashaholic> ahhh the french.
1027 2010-12-12 12:59:30 <xelister_> don't they hand out white flags kits in addition to the rifles
1028 2010-12-12 12:59:50 <Diablo-D3> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/macbook-pro-radeon-mcp-gpu,11781.html
1029 2010-12-12 12:59:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ^
1030 2010-12-12 13:00:24 <thrashaholic> xelister_: yes, but they usually mistake them for scarves...
1031 2010-12-12 13:00:39 <ArtForz> I still dont get why the F AMD crippled 32-bit integer adds for 69xx
1032 2010-12-12 13:00:41 <noagendamarket> or cheese
1033 2010-12-12 13:00:50 <xelister_> Diablo-D3: as Radeons are more popular, the more I hope their drivers will seize to be utter crap
1034 2010-12-12 13:00:51 <thrashaholic> leave cheese out of this!
1035 2010-12-12 13:01:02 <ArtForz> compared to the floating point units a 32-bit adder is fucking tiny
1036 2010-12-12 13:02:43 m0mchil has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1037 2010-12-12 13:02:50 altamic_ has joined
1038 2010-12-12 13:03:18 <ArtForz> even a 6-wide carry lookahead adder is damn small
1039 2010-12-12 13:04:58 <xelister_> ArtForz: perhaps they thought its not so used/needed
1040 2010-12-12 13:05:12 <xelister_> in normal games and shit
1041 2010-12-12 13:05:23 <xelister_> bitcoin mining is probably not their main market ;)
1042 2010-12-12 13:05:32 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1043 2010-12-12 13:05:33 altamic_ is now known as altamic
1044 2010-12-12 13:22:58 <finnomenon> does anybody know a way to ignore cmake's version while running it on bitcoin-pool ?
1045 2010-12-12 13:24:23 <Diablo-D3> xelister_: except compute is a big thing of theirs
1046 2010-12-12 13:24:30 <ArtForz> another bitcoin mention in latest wikileaks article on /.
1047 2010-12-12 13:25:55 <thrashaholic> great
1048 2010-12-12 13:30:07 Toadyonps3 has quit (Quit: moveing be back on asap tc all happy holidays I LOVE YOU XUNIE 4EVER!)
1049 2010-12-12 13:30:26 <noagendamarket> artforz link?
1050 2010-12-12 13:32:07 <MT`AwAy> noagendamarket: http://slashdot.org/
1051 2010-12-12 13:32:34 <thrashaholic> wow, what a helper
1052 2010-12-12 13:32:47 <finnomenon> dr. sarcasto
1053 2010-12-12 13:32:54 <MT`AwAy> thrashaholic: it's the last article, not hard to find
1054 2010-12-12 13:32:55 <thrashaholic> is it in the article or some random comment?
1055 2010-12-12 13:33:01 <MT`AwAy> thrashaholic: in the article
1056 2010-12-12 13:33:09 <KwukDuck> how much khash would an ati hd 6850 get?
1057 2010-12-12 13:33:10 <MT`AwAy> "PCWorld wonders if the WikiLeaks' money woes could lead to great adoption of Bitcoin [...]"
1058 2010-12-12 13:33:11 <thrashaholic> we're fucked.
1059 2010-12-12 13:33:36 <ArtForz> only 3rd and 4th link in artcile
1060 2010-12-12 13:34:13 <noagendamarket> wtf?
1061 2010-12-12 13:34:59 <ArtForz> no direct links, wo we shouldn't get /.ed
1062 2010-12-12 13:35:12 <noagendamarket> it will either be really great or kill bitcoin instantly
1063 2010-12-12 13:36:20 <ArtForz> or not do much at all
1064 2010-12-12 13:37:50 <noagendamarket> I mean it cant actually do much to bitcoin itself but the exchanges can easily be shut down
1065 2010-12-12 13:38:39 <noagendamarket> thats why they need to be open sourced
1066 2010-12-12 13:38:44 <CIA-84> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra68ad42 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Made logging output more consistent - http://bit.ly/dEBTe6
1067 2010-12-12 13:39:56 <thrashaholic> my exchange is open source ;)
1068 2010-12-12 13:40:10 <thrashaholic> h2h bitchez
1069 2010-12-12 13:41:03 <KwukDuck> ArtForz, you have any clue how HD6850 would perform?
1070 2010-12-12 13:41:23 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: half way between 5770 and 5850
1071 2010-12-12 13:41:39 <Diablo-D3> actually, closer to just a 5770
1072 2010-12-12 13:41:47 <Diablo-D3> 3D performance like a 5850 though
1073 2010-12-12 13:41:47 <noagendamarket> haha
1074 2010-12-12 13:41:58 <ArtForz> ~170Mh/s
1075 2010-12-12 13:42:04 <KwukDuck> k ty :)
1076 2010-12-12 13:42:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: make a fucking table
1077 2010-12-12 13:42:17 <Diablo-D3> so we can keep this shit straight
1078 2010-12-12 13:42:27 <ArtForz> err, I already have one
1079 2010-12-12 13:42:32 <Diablo-D3> url now
1080 2010-12-12 13:42:47 <KwukDuck> a list would be nice :)
1081 2010-12-12 13:43:21 <ArtForz> btw, looks like 6970 will end up about 5% faster than 5850 for mining
1082 2010-12-12 13:43:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dunno, jury is still possibly out on that
1083 2010-12-12 13:44:00 <ArtForz> not really
1084 2010-12-12 13:44:04 <Diablo-D3> 2.3 could magically make unicorns come out of my ass
1085 2010-12-12 13:44:06 <Diablo-D3> srsly
1086 2010-12-12 13:44:10 <ArtForz> 1536SP, 900Mhz
1087 2010-12-12 13:44:12 <KwukDuck> how do you calculate those speeds?
1088 2010-12-12 13:44:21 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: he uses very small tweezers
1089 2010-12-12 13:44:21 <ArtForz> 5536 ops/hash
1090 2010-12-12 13:44:33 <noagendamarket> I get over 9000
1091 2010-12-12 13:44:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but how the fuck does it perform so well on 3D tasks?
1092 2010-12-12 13:45:01 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 300000
1093 2010-12-12 13:45:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 0 hours, 43 minutes, and 26 seconds
1094 2010-12-12 13:45:04 <ArtForz> = 249 Mh/s
1095 2010-12-12 13:45:25 <ArtForz> well, because for ALUs*clock it's about == 5870
1096 2010-12-12 13:45:38 <Diablo-D3> the chip die is smaller, it uses less watts, its cheaper
1097 2010-12-12 13:45:49 <ArtForz> it just takes a pretty big hit from adds now taking up 2 VLIW slots
1098 2010-12-12 13:45:54 <ArtForz> smaller?
1099 2010-12-12 13:45:58 <ArtForz> it's bigger than a 5870
1100 2010-12-12 13:46:02 <Diablo-D3> and the the new optimized tesselator will be great in a few years
1101 2010-12-12 13:46:02 <ArtForz> and uses more power
1102 2010-12-12 13:46:15 <Diablo-D3> oh
1103 2010-12-12 13:46:17 <Diablo-D3> the 6970
1104 2010-12-12 13:46:20 <ArtForz> yep
1105 2010-12-12 13:46:24 <Diablo-D3> I thought you said 6870
1106 2010-12-12 13:46:30 <ArtForz> no
1107 2010-12-12 13:46:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah, that should rape the fuck out of everything in 3D
1108 2010-12-12 13:46:40 <ArtForz> but theres not much difference speedwise for hashing
1109 2010-12-12 13:47:05 <Diablo-D3> well
1110 2010-12-12 13:47:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I still dont wanna damn 69xx yet
1111 2010-12-12 13:47:24 <ArtForz> for hashing 6970 is < 10% faster than 6870
1112 2010-12-12 13:47:27 <Diablo-D3> not until 2.3 comes out and 10.12
1113 2010-12-12 13:47:34 <KwukDuck> ;;bc,calc 70000
1114 2010-12-12 13:47:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 70000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 week, 1 day, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 4 seconds
1115 2010-12-12 13:47:50 <ArtForz> well, keep hoping
1116 2010-12-12 13:48:26 <ArtForz> with adds taking 1 slot it'd still only be a bit faster than a 5870
1117 2010-12-12 13:49:17 alystair has joined
1118 2010-12-12 13:49:48 <ArtForz> so it might bne the best thing since sliced bread for 3D, it still sucks for hashing
1119 2010-12-12 13:50:27 <ArtForz> and pyrit, and pretty much anything using GPGPU for sha or aes family algos
1120 2010-12-12 13:51:07 alystair has left ()
1121 2010-12-12 13:52:08 <ArtForz> well, not that bad for AES, it only affects key scheduling there
1122 2010-12-12 13:52:14 <KwukDuck> ArtForz, can you publish the list? i want to compare some cards
1123 2010-12-12 13:57:32 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1124 2010-12-12 13:57:52 Granttt has joined
1125 2010-12-12 14:17:21 <hacim> so the only way to get coins is to wait ~43 days to generate a block, or sell something?
1126 2010-12-12 14:17:49 <noagendamarket> yes
1127 2010-12-12 14:18:14 <noagendamarket> or buy them
1128 2010-12-12 14:27:03 <Sirius_> what kind of scenarios do you have in mind when you say the wikileaks publicity could crush bitcoin?
1129 2010-12-12 14:28:03 <Sirius_> oppression from government would just bring us more support from people
1130 2010-12-12 14:28:43 <MT`AwAy> Sirius_: people with lots of cpu power willing to actually insert bad blocks in bitcoin
1131 2010-12-12 14:29:14 <Sirius_> maybe yes, but proportionally more than the new "good" users?
1132 2010-12-12 14:29:36 <Granttt> MY: what would their motivation be ? (supporting their governemnt?)
1133 2010-12-12 14:29:38 <Sirius_> too much pressure on satoshi is what I can think of
1134 2010-12-12 14:30:03 <Sirius_> stress
1135 2010-12-12 14:31:08 acous has joined
1136 2010-12-12 14:31:19 acous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1137 2010-12-12 14:32:18 <KwukDuck> hacim, or accept them
1138 2010-12-12 14:32:34 acous has joined
1139 2010-12-12 14:32:43 <T_X> satoshi and other people seemed to prefer playing a safe game, I guess. with the current moderate, but steady increase of bitcoin popularity, bitcoin could crawl stealthy right under the people's asses, which might not like bitcoin. and then it'll be too and established for those people to do anything against it
1140 2010-12-12 14:33:22 <T_X> in the beginning I also was very much tending to go with this wikileaks wave, but I think I changed my mind
1141 2010-12-12 14:33:25 <KwukDuck> T_X what would anyone do against it anyway?
1142 2010-12-12 14:33:50 <sjaak> latest remote miner acting weird for anyone else?
1143 2010-12-12 14:34:22 <KwukDuck> sjaak, opencl miner doesn't work for me
1144 2010-12-12 14:34:34 <T_X> KwukDuck: I guess there are still a lot of places that are not decentral enough and could be threatened and controled especially
1145 2010-12-12 14:35:02 <sjaak> KwukDuck: same here, but the cuda miner is acting weird as well, it just keeps on requesting new blocks
1146 2010-12-12 14:35:06 <T_X> which would not be able to kill the whole concept and thing, but could hinder a convinient access for common people
1147 2010-12-12 14:36:50 <KwukDuck> sjaak, the cuda miner works fine here
1148 2010-12-12 14:37:02 <T_X> governments could start blocking access to bitcoin related sites, could sue the people running mtgox or bitcoinmarket, they could sue satoshi and other people with vague reasons
1149 2010-12-12 14:37:11 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1150 2010-12-12 14:37:29 Granttt has joined
1151 2010-12-12 14:37:42 <T_X> but if you have a certain level of people behind it and slowly get it into the mainstream, then this won't be reversible for a government anymore
1152 2010-12-12 14:37:53 <KwukDuck> T_X, when it comes down to it they can sue and jail anyone for any made up reason
1153 2010-12-12 14:38:18 <KwukDuck> i wonder how many users bitcoin has
1154 2010-12-12 14:38:25 <T_X> hmm, don't think so, if there's a critical mass behind it, then it's not feasible for goverments to sue anybody
1155 2010-12-12 14:38:41 <sjaak> hm, now it seems working again, after a recv socket error -1 and a reconnect
1156 2010-12-12 14:38:53 <doublec> sjaak, I've seend that too
1157 2010-12-12 14:38:57 <doublec> I posted in the forums about it
1158 2010-12-12 14:39:03 <KwukDuck> T_X, we're a long way from that critical mass xD
1159 2010-12-12 14:39:38 <T_X> exactly, that's why it is still vulnerable to influencal and/or rich bastards
1160 2010-12-12 14:39:42 <sjaak> doublec: yeah saw that, hopefully there'll be a quick response
1161 2010-12-12 14:39:43 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1162 2010-12-12 14:40:47 <KwukDuck> so, you rather see it stays underground longer, not get media attention?
1163 2010-12-12 14:41:14 <T_X> and I think people will naturally be tending to use bitcoin over time, so I think there's no problem with the slow 'n' steady strategy
1164 2010-12-12 14:41:32 brian_ is now known as brian
1165 2010-12-12 14:41:39 brian has quit (Changing host)
1166 2010-12-12 14:41:39 brian has joined
1167 2010-12-12 14:41:56 <T_X> I usually prefer to think in long terms, not short ones :)
1168 2010-12-12 14:43:57 <doublec> The danger of saying 'bit coin doesn't want to be involved with wikileaks" is that people will look for, use, and establish something that becomes a stronger e-currency
1169 2010-12-12 14:44:08 <T_X> and so far, we can chose in which order to attract the attention of different people for bitcoin to shorten this period
1170 2010-12-12 14:45:17 <T_X> doublec: hmm, fair point
1171 2010-12-12 14:45:34 Grantt has joined
1172 2010-12-12 14:45:57 Insty has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1173 2010-12-12 14:46:28 <T_X> usually in terms of markets or open source software, I'd say that's a good thing, competition is good for business. but of course, don't know how that'd count for an e-currency
1174 2010-12-12 14:46:43 <T_X> as you'd prefer having a monopolised e-currency
1175 2010-12-12 14:47:29 <Grantt> T_X: how about just saying the truth: Nobody has the authority to decide what people use bitcoin for, bitcoin is used what people want to use it for
1176 2010-12-12 14:47:36 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1177 2010-12-12 14:47:55 Insty has joined
1178 2010-12-12 14:48:11 fs0 has joined
1179 2010-12-12 14:48:26 <Grantt> i dont see any reason to be defensive to the wikileaks article, just ignore it
1180 2010-12-12 14:49:10 <Grantt> i personally dont wanna be associated with wikileaks, but i dont care if someone wants to use bitcoin to fund them
1181 2010-12-12 14:51:43 <doublec> Grantt, I agree.
1182 2010-12-12 14:51:47 <MT`AwAy> Grantt: except the first targets will be the exchange sites like mtgox, which may result in either a loss of value for bitcoins, or on contrary the value increasing because it becomes difficult to obtain
1183 2010-12-12 14:52:37 <doublec> You can't promote Bitcoin to people and say "Please use it" but when it starts getting popular say "Oops, please don't"
1184 2010-12-12 14:52:40 <T_X> MT`AwAy: yeah, but that would slow down the process towards mainstream acceptance, wouldn't it?
1185 2010-12-12 14:53:56 <MT`AwAy> T_X: that's why for now we shouldn't push toward wikileaks
1186 2010-12-12 14:54:34 <[Noodles]> we shouldn't push, but there's also no way to pull ^.~
1187 2010-12-12 14:54:44 <doublec> MT`AwAy, I agree we shouldn't push it as a solution to Wikileaks problems. But we shouldn't be going around saying we don't want them to use it.
1188 2010-12-12 14:55:00 <Grantt> well, mtgox can state a disclaimer that they (since they are a service provider) DO not accept ppl to use MTGOX to donate to wikileaks :)
1189 2010-12-12 14:55:09 <doublec> We should say "Feel free to consider it buy be aware of issues like A, B and C."
1190 2010-12-12 14:55:32 <doublec> Where A, B and C are things like it's early days, not audited, may be bugs, etc.
1191 2010-12-12 14:55:42 <Grantt> there is ofcourse noway mtgox could verify that but at least theres a stupid disclaimer ;)
1192 2010-12-12 14:55:45 <KwukDuck> bitcoin could get mainstream realy fast, if only big companies would accept it as payment :)
1193 2010-12-12 14:56:08 <MT`AwAy> KwukDuck: I'm not big, but I'm a company, and I accept it :p (and working on better way for my partners to accept bitcoins)
1194 2010-12-12 14:56:31 <Grantt> KwukDuck: i'd honestly prefer if bitcoin grew because of many small companies rather than a few big ones
1195 2010-12-12 14:57:27 <MT`AwAy> if I manage that right, you should be able to buy software/games online with bitcoins soon
1196 2010-12-12 14:57:53 <T_X> doublec/Grantt: agreed, it's for sure not ok to force and push people to use something or not use something in a free society. but I also have a kind of sceptical point of view of people sometimes, why I think it's up to people with more experience to notice the people of things that might be "bad" in any sense
1197 2010-12-12 14:58:22 <T_X> and with noting people I'd not only mean telling them about issues, but also how you'd expect to grow bitcoin the fastest and safest
1198 2010-12-12 14:59:26 <T_X> KwuckDuck: bitcoin cuold get mainstream really fast, if only the many stream people were using it already for any kind of simple transaction :)
1199 2010-12-12 14:59:36 <doublec> T_X, Yes, and this is how we should be advertising the "Bitcoin might not be the best solution for Wikileaks" story
1200 2010-12-12 14:59:38 <T_X> then the big companies would have to hop on to it anyway
1201 2010-12-12 14:59:47 <doublec> But I'm seeing too much of "Bitcoin doesn't like Wikileaks"
1202 2010-12-12 14:59:57 <doublec> Bitcoin is looking as bad as PayPal
1203 2010-12-12 15:00:07 <Diablo-D3> wtf?
1204 2010-12-12 15:00:18 <Diablo-D3> I can officially say I'm somebody when it comes to bitcoin
1205 2010-12-12 15:00:43 <Diablo-D3> and if julian assange was a girl, I would let her file rape charges against me, if you know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge
1206 2010-12-12 15:00:47 <T_X> doublec: ah, okay. didn't have that impression that much so far. but maybe you're right.
1207 2010-12-12 15:00:50 <doublec> haha
1208 2010-12-12 15:01:14 <T_X> I also like both wikileaks and bitcoin :)
1209 2010-12-12 15:01:26 <doublec> See some of the recent twitter posts from people about not wanting wikileaks to use bitcoins for example
1210 2010-12-12 15:01:45 <doublec> And slashdot comments like: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907000&cid=34528356
1211 2010-12-12 15:01:59 <doublec> "BitCoin's creator and it's forum members don't want to be associated with WikiLeaks for fear of becoming associated with money laundering, so why is this article pushing it?"
1212 2010-12-12 15:02:11 <Diablo-D3> wait what?
1213 2010-12-12 15:02:13 <MT`AwAy> lol
1214 2010-12-12 15:02:17 <MT`AwAy> money laundering ?
1215 2010-12-12 15:02:18 <MT`AwAy> we love it!
1216 2010-12-12 15:02:33 <doublec> I know, dumb. But people are taking the 'we hate wikileaks' and running with it.
1217 2010-12-12 15:02:33 <Diablo-D3> money laundering? dude, I leave $20 bills in my pants pockets all the time
1218 2010-12-12 15:03:25 <Diablo-D3> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907000&cid=34528480
1219 2010-12-12 15:03:30 <Diablo-D3> this says everything I wanted to say
1220 2010-12-12 15:03:35 fs0 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1221 2010-12-12 15:03:36 <doublec> Look at Bruce Wagners email to the PC world article authors: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2216.msg29291#msg29291
1222 2010-12-12 15:03:46 <T_X> doublec: yeah, but that's a different thing, I think it's ok to say I'd not prefer wikileaks using and promoting bitcoin (yet) and not saying that bitcoin is bad for wikileaks
1223 2010-12-12 15:03:47 <doublec> "Most in the Bitcoin Community do NOT want Bitcoin to be associated with Wikileaks in any way.
1224 2010-12-12 15:03:48 <doublec> "
1225 2010-12-12 15:05:32 Grantt is now known as Granttt
1226 2010-12-12 15:06:35 <T_X> doublec: yes, and I think that's ok, maybe even more saying that the bitcoin community would like to stay neutral towards the people and organisations willing to use it
1227 2010-12-12 15:07:07 * Diablo-D3 puts his giant dick into slashdot
1228 2010-12-12 15:07:26 <Diablo-D3> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907000&cid=34528704
1229 2010-12-12 15:07:30 <Diablo-D3> GIANT PENIS AWWAAAAYYYY
1230 2010-12-12 15:07:32 <T_X> I'm currently in Switzerland, and this neutrality seemed to have worked for out great for them and their financial way of doing it during the last decades :)
1231 2010-12-12 15:07:38 <doublec> Yes, it's dumb to say that most in the community don't want to be associated with them.. How does brucewagner even get that idea.
1232 2010-12-12 15:07:40 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: you're forgetting the "FLYING" part
1233 2010-12-12 15:08:07 <Diablo-D3> well, its not really flying, as much as altering local gravity due to its extreme mass
1234 2010-12-12 15:08:35 <doublec> I also commented: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907000&cid=34528634
1235 2010-12-12 15:09:15 <T_X> doublec: well, I guess in the forum discussions, people tended to back off from wikileaks. but I think that statement of him is ok, not perfect, but better than most other comments
1236 2010-12-12 15:09:21 <Diablo-D3> you know whats vastly depressing?
1237 2010-12-12 15:09:27 <Diablo-D3> I have the lowest uid in that entire thread by far
1238 2010-12-12 15:09:34 <doublec> haha I was just admiring that uid ;)
1239 2010-12-12 15:10:01 <Diablo-D3> doublec: oh it gets better
1240 2010-12-12 15:10:04 <doublec> I knew I should have signed up earlier instead of lurking
1241 2010-12-12 15:10:04 <Diablo-D3> I have a 5 digit one
1242 2010-12-12 15:10:12 <doublec> nice.
1243 2010-12-12 15:10:18 <Diablo-D3> but I forgot the password, and the email it was tied too I dont have anymore
1244 2010-12-12 15:10:37 <Diablo-D3> so a very low six digit is fine too
1245 2010-12-12 15:17:06 gavinandresen has joined
1246 2010-12-12 15:28:58 <thrashaholic> heh, some of these people in this slashdot thread just don't get it
1247 2010-12-12 15:29:39 <thrashaholic> proposing yet more debt-based monetary systems in a thread with Ron Paul in the article title should be a capital offense.
1248 2010-12-12 15:30:00 <Diablo-D3> thrashaholic: well, no
1249 2010-12-12 15:30:12 <Diablo-D3> I dont particularly want my taxes to pay for irony police
1250 2010-12-12 15:30:15 <Diablo-D3> dohohohoho
1251 2010-12-12 15:30:24 <thrashaholic> haha
1252 2010-12-12 15:30:26 <thrashaholic> indeed
1253 2010-12-12 15:35:16 cosurgi has joined
1254 2010-12-12 15:36:08 <cosurgi> hi, what happens with evergrowing ~/.bitcoin/debug.log file ? does it stop being filled at one point? is deleted? rotated?
1255 2010-12-12 15:40:11 <dsg> cosurgi: Log rotation is the user's responsibility, see http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=292.0
1256 2010-12-12 15:42:23 <cosurgi> great, thanks.
1257 2010-12-12 15:42:31 <cosurgi> And yeah - I'm here due to wikileaks :)
1258 2010-12-12 15:43:10 <cosurgi> now I'm happy that my 8 cores won't be sitting idle anymore, when I have no calculations to do.
1259 2010-12-12 15:44:39 <[Noodles]> if you are generateing on CPUs only you mit try to jump into the pool, http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1260 2010-12-12 15:44:47 <[Noodles]> *might
1261 2010-12-12 15:45:41 <cosurgi> thanks
1262 2010-12-12 15:46:23 andrew12 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1263 2010-12-12 15:46:43 <[Noodles]> anyone got the opnecl-poolminer running on nvidia?
1264 2010-12-12 15:46:56 <ArtForz> also, compared to ATI GPUs generating on CPU is horribly inefficient
1265 2010-12-12 15:47:18 <cosurgi> hmmm, I have nvidia only
1266 2010-12-12 15:47:18 <[Noodles]> anything except ATI cards is inefficient ^.^
1267 2010-12-12 15:47:24 <cosurgi> how does it work with nvidia?
1268 2010-12-12 15:47:37 <ArtForz> well, nvidia GPUs still beat CPU by a factor of 2-3 on hash/W
1269 2010-12-12 15:47:44 <[Noodles]> worse than on ATI, but still a lot better than on CPUs
1270 2010-12-12 15:48:05 <ArtForz> for ATI it's closer to a factor of 10 vs. CPU
1271 2010-12-12 15:48:59 <cosurgi> wow. even top nvidias are slower ? I have GTX 260
1272 2010-12-12 15:49:49 <[Noodles]> gtx260 running here, standalon-OpenCL you'll get 36-45 000 khash/s
1273 2010-12-12 15:50:16 <ArtForz> 6-core PhenomII 16Mh/s, 125W, 0.13Mh/W; GTX580 120Mh/s, 250W, 0.48Mh/W; HD5970 535Mh/s, 294W, 1.82Mh/W
1274 2010-12-12 15:50:17 <[Noodles]> a HD5570 beats that and doesnt even need a power-connector ^.^1
1275 2010-12-12 15:50:56 <ArtForz> GTX260 is ~0.24Mh/W
1276 2010-12-12 15:52:06 <T_X> by the way, is there only a windows binary for bitcoinr which can use a gpu?
1277 2010-12-12 15:52:41 <ArtForz> yep, HD5570 should get close to 60Mh/s at 75W
1278 2010-12-12 15:53:13 <ArtForz> errr
1279 2010-12-12 15:53:19 <ArtForz> at 40W
1280 2010-12-12 15:53:20 <[Noodles]> it doesnt need full 75W, more like 50 (a little oc'd) and gets ~65M
1281 2010-12-12 15:53:50 <ArtForz> 40W, $75
1282 2010-12-12 15:54:13 Kiba has joined
1283 2010-12-12 15:57:32 <cosurgi> ok, guys, tell me about LAN. I have a very slow debian squeeze server, it routes all connections. It has :8333 outside port opened. I've run `bitcoind -gen` on it. From debug.log I see that it's running, messages look like:
1284 2010-12-12 15:57:37 <cosurgi> SetBestChain: new best=000000002c6b71e7e52b height=10533 work=45243875862822
1285 2010-12-12 15:57:58 <[Noodles]> when did you install it? got all blocks yet?
1286 2010-12-12 15:58:04 <ArtForz> it's still downloading the chain
1287 2010-12-12 15:58:06 <cosurgi> now, I run `./bitcoind -connect=192.168.16.16 -gen` on my main machine. Where 192.168.16.16 is my home server IP.
1288 2010-12-12 15:58:18 <ArtForz> we're at block 97215 currently
1289 2010-12-12 15:58:52 <cosurgi> aha. OK. so it might be downloading still, then. I didn't realize. I started it about 30minutes ago
1290 2010-12-12 15:59:34 <cosurgi> and my main machine debug.log ends with that:
1291 2010-12-12 15:59:38 <cosurgi> sending getdata: block 00000000d84724559f16
1292 2010-12-12 15:59:38 <cosurgi> sending: getdata (19119 bytes)
1293 2010-12-12 15:59:38 <cosurgi> ResendWalletTransactions()
1294 2010-12-12 16:00:01 <cosurgi> and all my CPU are still unused. I just need to wait, or something needs to be configured further?
1295 2010-12-12 16:00:07 <ArtForz> sounds like the node it requested the next batch of blocks from didnt respond
1296 2010-12-12 16:00:10 <cosurgi> *all my 8 CPU cores
1297 2010-12-12 16:00:32 <ArtForz> it won't start generating until it has all blocks
1298 2010-12-12 16:00:54 <KwukDuck> ArtForz, you had a pgu performance table right?
1299 2010-12-12 16:00:54 <cosurgi> ok. so what should I do - restart `./bitcoind -connect=192.168.16.16 -gen` ot just wait a bit more? I guess that it connects only to my home server 192.168.16.16, right?
1300 2010-12-12 16:01:02 <ArtForz> yep
1301 2010-12-12 16:01:08 <ArtForz> -connect only connects to a single node
1302 2010-12-12 16:01:24 <cosurgi> ok, so will it try to connect later?
1303 2010-12-12 16:01:29 <ArtForz> while -addnode adds a IP to the database of known nodes
1304 2010-12-12 16:01:57 <ArtForz> I guess your border node is still downloading blocks and your main node is waiting for it to complete the next batch of 500
1305 2010-12-12 16:02:07 <ArtForz> KwukDuck: yup
1306 2010-12-12 16:02:14 <cosurgi> so better to run as `./bitcoind -addnode=192.168.16.16 -gen` ? So that it will try to connect to everything, but will have in mind that my home server is there? (and it's the only one that has :8333 port open)
1307 2010-12-12 16:02:23 <KwukDuck> ArtForz, is it accessable somewhere?
1308 2010-12-12 16:02:23 <cosurgi> ok.
1309 2010-12-12 16:02:48 <ArtForz> not yet
1310 2010-12-12 16:02:54 <Kiba> hmm
1311 2010-12-12 16:02:56 <ArtForz> currently cleaning it up a bit
1312 2010-12-12 16:02:58 <Kiba> we got on slashdot again...
1313 2010-12-12 16:03:16 <Kiba> we might finally get our wikipedia article back!
1314 2010-12-12 16:06:04 <thrashaholic> ugh
1315 2010-12-12 16:07:35 <cosurgi> I did `pkill -15 bitcoind` and then started it again with addnode: `./bitcoind -addnode=192.168.16.16 -gen`
1316 2010-12-12 16:07:44 <cosurgi> now the log says:
1317 2010-12-12 16:08:02 <cosurgi> ResendWalletTransactions() \ IRC got join \ AddAddress() \ IRC got new address
1318 2010-12-12 16:08:06 <cosurgi> and stopped here
1319 2010-12-12 16:08:22 <cosurgi> still downloading?
1320 2010-12-12 16:08:39 <cosurgi> or rather - seems it's tryin to connect...
1321 2010-12-12 16:09:11 <ArtForz> sounds like your border node got stuck somehow
1322 2010-12-12 16:09:28 <cosurgi> border node says:
1323 2010-12-12 16:09:31 <cosurgi> SetBestChain: new best=00000000b55b7a8e8df3 height=19265 work=82748102560578
1324 2010-12-12 16:09:39 <ArtForz> okay, so it's still downloading
1325 2010-12-12 16:09:53 <cosurgi> ok.
1326 2010-12-12 16:11:03 Granttt has quit ()
1327 2010-12-12 16:16:30 redengin has joined
1328 2010-12-12 16:18:32 <cosurgi> that "16:57 < ArtForz> we're at block 97215 currently" refers to my currently downloaded "height=19265" ?
1329 2010-12-12 16:18:33 zzop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1330 2010-12-12 16:18:45 zzop has joined
1331 2010-12-12 16:18:46 <cosurgi> and I see it increasing
1332 2010-12-12 16:19:23 <ArtForz> yes
1333 2010-12-12 16:19:27 <cosurgi> ok
1334 2010-12-12 16:21:58 <Kiba> jeez
1335 2010-12-12 16:22:12 <Kiba> my computer is going to do a several hour long partition :(
1336 2010-12-12 16:22:17 <Kiba> resizing
1337 2010-12-12 16:22:39 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/AvymGnMJ
1338 2010-12-12 16:25:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: put that on the wiki
1339 2010-12-12 16:26:14 <cosurgi> does ATI OpenCL work on linux?
1340 2010-12-12 16:26:18 <cosurgi> debian squeeze :)
1341 2010-12-12 16:26:48 <Diablo-D3> I would hope so.
1342 2010-12-12 16:27:05 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you're on stable?
1343 2010-12-12 16:27:13 <ArtForz> squeeze = testing
1344 2010-12-12 16:27:25 <Diablo-D3> I cant keep track of the names
1345 2010-12-12 16:27:28 <ArtForz> currently has fglrx 10.9 ... yeah, should work
1346 2010-12-12 16:27:31 <Diablo-D3> I've been on unstable for a decade.
1347 2010-12-12 16:27:51 <Diablo-D3> Its kind of funny
1348 2010-12-12 16:28:02 <Diablo-D3> Ive been using debian longer than most people even have heard of linux
1349 2010-12-12 16:28:08 <ArtForz> my desktop is running unstable, my home servers are on stable
1350 2010-12-12 16:28:39 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: but yeah, 10.9 should work fine, just go download stream sdk 2.1 (not 2.2) off amd's website
1351 2010-12-12 16:28:45 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: and follow the directions
1352 2010-12-12 16:29:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: why the hell is 5970 so watt efficient?
1353 2010-12-12 16:29:36 <ArtForz> low Vcore
1354 2010-12-12 16:29:43 <ArtForz> 5970 has 1.05 Vcore
1355 2010-12-12 16:29:49 <ArtForz> 5870 has 1.1625
1356 2010-12-12 16:30:00 <Diablo-D3> huh.
1357 2010-12-12 16:30:17 <Diablo-D3> so if I underclocked a 5870 it'd be just as efficient?
1358 2010-12-12 16:30:56 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: thanks. I use debian since 1999 :)
1359 2010-12-12 16:31:02 <Diablo-D3> lol
1360 2010-12-12 16:31:08 <Kiba> I used debian as my first distro
1361 2010-12-12 16:31:10 <ArtForz> well, 5970 cores are binned for low leakage
1362 2010-12-12 16:31:28 <Kiba> then ubuntu
1363 2010-12-12 16:31:29 <Kiba> then
1364 2010-12-12 16:31:31 <Kiba> finally
1365 2010-12-12 16:31:33 <Kiba> archlinux
1366 2010-12-12 16:31:35 <cosurgi> btw. But I never caught with ATI, I always used nvidia, that's why I asked if ATI is going to work.
1367 2010-12-12 16:31:45 <ArtForz> but yeah, undervolted 5870 should be able to get similar numbers
1368 2010-12-12 16:31:47 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: ati will work far better than nvidia ever will
1369 2010-12-12 16:32:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: thats kind of clever on AMD's part, though
1370 2010-12-12 16:32:10 <cosurgi> heh
1371 2010-12-12 16:32:19 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: see <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/AvymGnMJ
1372 2010-12-12 16:32:38 <cosurgi> I just looked at it, and tht's why I asked :)
1373 2010-12-12 16:33:02 <Diablo-D3> the fastest nvidia is about 5x more expensive than the 5750
1374 2010-12-12 16:33:14 <Diablo-D3> thats pretty fail
1375 2010-12-12 16:33:38 <ArtForz> and the 244W for GTX580 are nvidia-watts
1376 2010-12-12 16:33:44 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: but yes, I wrote my miner on nothing but ati on linux
1377 2010-12-12 16:33:47 <ArtForz> real world it's probably closer to 280-300
1378 2010-12-12 16:33:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: lol
1379 2010-12-12 16:34:33 <Kiba> jesus
1380 2010-12-12 16:34:42 <Kiba> why all the markets have minicule trade compared to mtgox?
1381 2010-12-12 16:35:02 <ArtForz> probably because mtgox is relatively easy and fast
1382 2010-12-12 16:35:04 <Kiba> and what is taking dwdollar so fricking long?
1383 2010-12-12 16:35:13 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: I think it's a trust problem, mtgox is established since longer than the others and people trust it
1384 2010-12-12 16:35:21 <Diablo-D3> 4850 800 625 110 75.30 0.685
1385 2010-12-12 16:35:24 <ArtForz> actually BCM is older I think
1386 2010-12-12 16:35:28 <Kiba> yes
1387 2010-12-12 16:35:30 <Kiba> it is older
1388 2010-12-12 16:35:35 <Diablo-D3> so at this point, anything is better
1389 2010-12-12 16:35:41 <Kiba> but developer of BCM thinks he can cruise for several months
1390 2010-12-12 16:35:48 <ArtForz> yeah
1391 2010-12-12 16:36:01 <Kiba> he's getting SLAUGHTERD
1392 2010-12-12 16:36:17 <MT`AwAy> also, mtgox is in everyone's mouth (well, keyboard in fact), while it's the first time I ever see someone talking about BCM
1393 2010-12-12 16:36:21 <Diablo-D3> 5770 gets 2x the hashes, but, eh, maybe 25% more in 3D
1394 2010-12-12 16:36:24 <ArtForz> no new registration and limited open hours = fail
1395 2010-12-12 16:36:45 Zarutian has joined
1396 2010-12-12 16:36:52 <MT`AwAy> (also mtgox is quite transparent, helps making for better trust)
1397 2010-12-12 16:37:01 <Kiba> BCM is a fucking mismanagement. So gald we have a free market
1398 2010-12-12 16:37:15 * MT`AwAy is gald too
1399 2010-12-12 16:37:24 <ArtForz> well, BCM is plenty transparent imo
1400 2010-12-12 16:37:56 <Kiba> I am working on that prediction market, still...I am slow.
1401 2010-12-12 16:38:16 <MT`AwAy> and I am working on that bitcoin client, but haven't solved my ECC bug yet
1402 2010-12-12 16:38:21 <ArtForz> and for simple buying/selling of btc cheaper than mtgox
1403 2010-12-12 16:38:35 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: Do I read this table correctly, ATI 5970 is producing 535.06 Mhash/s and thus is fastest?
1404 2010-12-12 16:38:43 <Diablo-D3> yes
1405 2010-12-12 16:38:46 <Diablo-D3> but its also a dual gpu
1406 2010-12-12 16:38:51 <cosurgi> ok. how much does this card cost? :)
1407 2010-12-12 16:38:53 <Diablo-D3> its two 5870s, underclocked
1408 2010-12-12 16:38:58 <Diablo-D3> lets find out!
1409 2010-12-12 16:39:06 <Diablo-D3> to newegg, robin!
1410 2010-12-12 16:39:18 <ArtForz> $500
1411 2010-12-12 16:39:20 <Diablo-D3> CLICK! LOAD! POW! BAM!
1412 2010-12-12 16:39:26 <ArtForz> same as GTX580
1413 2010-12-12 16:39:55 <cosurgi> heh. quite expensive :)
1414 2010-12-12 16:39:56 <Diablo-D3> cheapest non-shit brand is currently $467 after rebate
1415 2010-12-12 16:40:13 <ArtForz> brand == pointless for 5970
1416 2010-12-12 16:40:23 <ArtForz> they're all reference cards
1417 2010-12-12 16:40:32 <Diablo-D3> heh
1418 2010-12-12 16:40:34 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt matter anyhow
1419 2010-12-12 16:40:39 <Diablo-D3> newegg only has one in stock
1420 2010-12-12 16:40:40 <Diablo-D3> that one
1421 2010-12-12 16:40:58 <ArtForz> sapphire?
1422 2010-12-12 16:41:10 <Kiba> that being said, everyone have to develop their own exchange software...
1423 2010-12-12 16:41:14 <Kiba> that limits competition
1424 2010-12-12 16:41:16 <Diablo-D3> they have a $670 one, a $715 one, a $1100 one, and a $1200 one
1425 2010-12-12 16:41:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah
1426 2010-12-12 16:41:22 <ArtForz> yeah, guess they got all the remaining 5970 stock :P
1427 2010-12-12 16:41:37 <Diablo-D3> the $1200 one comes in some sort of plastic P90-esque gun you put the card in for storage
1428 2010-12-12 16:41:54 <ArtForz> it's also a 5870x2, not a 5970
1429 2010-12-12 16:41:55 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150500
1430 2010-12-12 16:42:04 <Diablo-D3> no, the $1100 is a 5870x2
1431 2010-12-12 16:42:15 <Diablo-D3> oh, core clock is 850
1432 2010-12-12 16:42:18 <Diablo-D3> I guess it is a 5870x2
1433 2010-12-12 16:42:24 <Diablo-D3> I hate that term
1434 2010-12-12 16:42:35 <ArtForz> why?
1435 2010-12-12 16:42:37 <Diablo-D3> it should be "5970 full speed"
1436 2010-12-12 16:42:46 <Diablo-D3> or "not underclocked"
1437 2010-12-12 16:42:46 <Diablo-D3> or
1438 2010-12-12 16:42:55 <Diablo-D3> "nuclear power plant sold seperately"
1439 2010-12-12 16:43:02 <ArtForz> they called it 5970 because it's neither a 5850x2 nor 5870x2
1440 2010-12-12 16:43:25 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but the 4870x2, for example, wasnt two 4870s
1441 2010-12-12 16:43:41 <ArtForz> errr... it was
1442 2010-12-12 16:43:50 <Diablo-D3> I thought it was underclocked?
1443 2010-12-12 16:43:53 <ArtForz> nope
1444 2010-12-12 16:43:57 <Diablo-D3> huh.
1445 2010-12-12 16:44:00 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit amd.
1446 2010-12-12 16:44:38 <ArtForz> 4850x2 and 4870x2 were same clock/SP# per GPU as 4850/4870
1447 2010-12-12 16:45:07 <ArtForz> ATI originally intended 5970 to be 5870x2, but hit the power wall
1448 2010-12-12 16:45:12 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: but yeah, it seems the only cards worth looking at, from my analysis the other day, is 5970, 5850, 5870, 5770, 6850, 6870
1449 2010-12-12 16:45:21 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: and thats mhash per dollar
1450 2010-12-12 16:45:40 <Diablo-D3> per watt its almost that order
1451 2010-12-12 16:45:41 <ArtForz> 68xx has a small problem, you NEED SDK 2.2 for em
1452 2010-12-12 16:45:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes but
1453 2010-12-12 16:45:54 <Diablo-D3> 2.3 is coming soon
1454 2010-12-12 16:46:01 <Diablo-D3> infact, we're in december now
1455 2010-12-12 16:46:03 <Diablo-D3> where the fuck is it
1456 2010-12-12 16:46:06 <ArtForz> well, you can hope that AMD fixes their shit in SDK2.3
1457 2010-12-12 16:46:14 <ArtForz> well, 69xx is still not out
1458 2010-12-12 16:47:03 <ArtForz> I expect fglrx 10.12 to coincide with 6950/70 release, with SDK 2.3 shortly after
1459 2010-12-12 16:48:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, at the same time really
1460 2010-12-12 16:48:16 <cosurgi> I've started bitcoin on three PCs now: 1. very slow border node, 2. 8 core AMD 3. 4 core Intel
1461 2010-12-12 16:48:23 <Diablo-D3> cat on windows in 10.12 is supposed to ship in opencl only version now
1462 2010-12-12 16:48:25 <Diablo-D3> no longer optional
1463 2010-12-12 16:48:27 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1464 2010-12-12 16:48:36 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: cpu mining is pointless
1465 2010-12-12 16:48:47 <Diablo-D3> fastest cpu (a phenom II) does like 15 mhash
1466 2010-12-12 16:48:52 <Diablo-D3> my ancienter than fuck 4850 does 75.
1467 2010-12-12 16:49:14 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: ok, let me just see how it works at all. Then I'll look at OpenCL. currently I have nvidia everywhere, so maybe I should look at using it, before I buy AMD
1468 2010-12-12 16:49:18 <cosurgi> s/AMD/ATI
1469 2010-12-12 16:49:52 <Kiba> I don't care about electricity
1470 2010-12-12 16:49:52 <Diablo-D3> eh, its amd now
1471 2010-12-12 16:49:56 <Kiba> my parents is subsidizing it
1472 2010-12-12 16:50:00 <Diablo-D3> amd finally killed the ati name now
1473 2010-12-12 16:50:07 <Diablo-D3> 6xxx is the first series fully amd branded
1474 2010-12-12 16:50:17 <Diablo-D3> (4xxx was the first amd made ati branded card)
1475 2010-12-12 16:50:40 <Kiba> that being said, I do want to move out of my parents' house
1476 2010-12-12 16:52:02 * Kiba would be happy to live in a crappy house as long it have plumbing, electricity, and access to DSL
1477 2010-12-12 16:55:52 <cosurgi> wow, debug.log is 40MB now.
1478 2010-12-12 16:56:02 <cosurgi> I've set up logrotate, but how big it's going to grow?
1479 2010-12-12 16:56:15 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: how much hd space do you have? ;)
1480 2010-12-12 16:56:45 <cosurgi> few GBs
1481 2010-12-12 16:57:14 <cosurgi> don't tell me it'll eat it all :) You just want to tell me that I have orders of magnitude more than it will use, right?
1482 2010-12-12 16:59:05 <cosurgi> or... how do I disable this log?
1483 2010-12-12 16:59:22 <Diablo-D3> it will eat it all
1484 2010-12-12 16:59:43 <Diablo-D3> huh, mines only 10mb
1485 2010-12-12 16:59:44 <Diablo-D3> wonder why
1486 2010-12-12 17:00:06 <cosurgi> well, with logrotate every 8h... it shouldn't eat, anyway.
1487 2010-12-12 17:00:30 <ArtForz> initial block download
1488 2010-12-12 17:00:34 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but this is over like several months
1489 2010-12-12 17:00:39 <ArtForz> 5 or 6 lines per block add up quickly
1490 2010-12-12 17:01:00 redengin has joined
1491 2010-12-12 17:03:26 <nanotube> cosurgi: for cpu mining, consider joining the ,,pool (as long as you're going to do it anyway. as long as you're not trying to make a profit on top of electricity used)
1492 2010-12-12 17:03:26 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1493 2010-12-12 17:03:41 <cosurgi> how do I check my current hash rate?
1494 2010-12-12 17:03:51 <nanotube> 'bitcoind getinfo' shows it
1495 2010-12-12 17:04:05 <ArtForz> GUI client shows it in bottom left corner
1496 2010-12-12 17:04:38 <cosurgi> "hashespersec" : 15721441,
1497 2010-12-12 17:04:40 <cosurgi> this?
1498 2010-12-12 17:04:50 <ArtForz> yup
1499 2010-12-12 17:04:52 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 15721
1500 2010-12-12 17:04:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15721 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 47 minutes, and 28 seconds
1501 2010-12-12 17:05:02 <Diablo-D3> gribble: fail
1502 2010-12-12 17:05:11 <Diablo-D3> er
1503 2010-12-12 17:05:13 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: fail
1504 2010-12-12 17:05:26 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: no... it is 15mhash
1505 2010-12-12 17:05:29 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: I'm just using cosurgi's value
1506 2010-12-12 17:05:33 <Diablo-D3> er
1507 2010-12-12 17:05:34 <Diablo-D3> is it?
1508 2010-12-12 17:05:37 <Diablo-D3> fuck, I cant count
1509 2010-12-12 17:05:41 <nanotube> count the digits amigo :)
1510 2010-12-12 17:05:43 <nanotube> hehe
1511 2010-12-12 17:05:46 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: fail
1512 2010-12-12 17:05:46 <MT`AwAy> :D
1513 2010-12-12 17:05:53 <Diablo-D3> too tired
1514 2010-12-12 17:06:11 <cosurgi> sooo... it's "Average: 55 minutes" from Bitcoin Generation Calculator.
1515 2010-12-12 17:06:20 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: divide by 1000.
1516 2010-12-12 17:06:27 <cosurgi> aaah :)
1517 2010-12-12 17:06:33 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: getinfo has hash/sec, calc takes khash/sec
1518 2010-12-12 17:06:40 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: and MT`AwAy already did it
1519 2010-12-12 17:06:46 <Diablo-D3> [12:03:44] <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 15721
1520 2010-12-12 17:06:47 <Diablo-D3> [12:03:45] <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15721 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 47 minutes, and 28 seconds
1521 2010-12-12 17:06:53 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: if you move to Japan I'll let you use my cough, internet, water. Maybe not the electricity however :p
1522 2010-12-12 17:07:08 <cosurgi> I get it too: "Average: 38 days, 17 hours, 48 minutes" :)
1523 2010-12-12 17:08:08 <Diablo-D3> http://images.4chan.org/m/src/1292161174386.jpg
1524 2010-12-12 17:08:22 <Diablo-D3> holy crap, its like, big guy and rusty in outer space
1525 2010-12-12 17:08:27 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1526 2010-12-12 17:08:58 <necrodearia> So now that there's news sources for Bitcoin, perhaps the wikipedia article can be resurrected?
1527 2010-12-12 17:09:08 <necrodearia> http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=bitcoin
1528 2010-12-12 17:09:37 <KwukDuck> i highly doubt wikipedia will addopt the article
1529 2010-12-12 17:09:46 <ArtForz> yup
1530 2010-12-12 17:09:52 <KwukDuck> i have a feeling there's more then just 'too few sources' behind the removal
1531 2010-12-12 17:09:56 <MT`AwAy> wait until they restore it themselves
1532 2010-12-12 17:09:58 <cosurgi> so I have 15MH/s.
1533 2010-12-12 17:10:06 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: which isn't bad for a CPU
1534 2010-12-12 17:10:08 <ArtForz> would be better to have a print mention or 2
1535 2010-12-12 17:10:40 <MT`AwAy> I'd better hurry to finish my bitcoin client
1536 2010-12-12 17:11:46 <cosurgi> hm. My nvidia GTX 280 is at other computer. So I can't play now with it. This one, that I have at hand right now has "Quadro NVS 290", would OpenCL work on it?
1537 2010-12-12 17:12:18 <cosurgi> I would need to check if it has CUDA cores, right?
1538 2010-12-12 17:12:43 <ArtForz> G86 core... probbaly not
1539 2010-12-12 17:12:46 BCBot has joined
1540 2010-12-12 17:12:57 <Diablo-D3> gtx 280?
1541 2010-12-12 17:13:00 <Diablo-D3> should work fine
1542 2010-12-12 17:13:22 <Diablo-D3> and if you use the beta drivers, my miner will even work on it
1543 2010-12-12 17:13:40 <cosurgi> My GTX 280 is inaccessible now, because it's turned of, so I cannot login remotely. Here I have "Quadro NVS 290".
1544 2010-12-12 17:13:59 <necrodearia> like single serving sites, single serving p2p networks for a variety of purposes may be best - e.g. tacking dns onto bitcoin p2p network doesn't seem so useful
1545 2010-12-12 17:14:01 <cosurgi> so I'll try it later :)
1546 2010-12-12 17:14:23 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1547 2010-12-12 17:14:29 <ArtForz> Quadro NVS 290 is pretty much a GF8400GS
1548 2010-12-12 17:14:59 <ArtForz> so I guess it should work
1549 2010-12-12 17:15:26 <Diablo-D3> ahh hrm
1550 2010-12-12 17:15:32 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
1551 2010-12-12 17:15:34 <Diablo-D3> Im going to bed
1552 2010-12-12 17:15:48 <Diablo-D3> night all
1553 2010-12-12 17:15:51 * necrodearia waves
1554 2010-12-12 17:15:52 <cosurgi> night
1555 2010-12-12 17:15:53 <ArtForz> thoguh with 16 SPs @ 920MHz CPU might be faster
1556 2010-12-12 17:16:01 <Diablo-D3> fffffbwhahahaha
1557 2010-12-12 17:16:02 <Diablo-D3> oh wow
1558 2010-12-12 17:16:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the hash meter should go negative
1559 2010-12-12 17:16:18 <Diablo-D3> I should make that a feature on mine
1560 2010-12-12 17:16:30 <Diablo-D3> once it drops below a certain rate, make it negative
1561 2010-12-12 17:16:35 <ArtForz> something like 2.2Mh/s
1562 2010-12-12 17:17:17 <Diablo-D3> jesus
1563 2010-12-12 17:17:22 <Diablo-D3> my c2d is faster than that
1564 2010-12-12 17:17:33 <ArtForz> exactly
1565 2010-12-12 17:17:33 <[Noodles]> c'mon, really? even my 8600GT got 5-6M, think it only has 8 SPs
1566 2010-12-12 17:17:45 <Diablo-D3> [Noodles]: its not really about SPs
1567 2010-12-12 17:17:54 <Diablo-D3> SPs do nothing
1568 2010-12-12 17:18:08 <ArtForz> 8600GT has 32
1569 2010-12-12 17:18:22 <ArtForz> and 1180MHz shader clock
1570 2010-12-12 17:18:27 <Diablo-D3> its about total usable pipes
1571 2010-12-12 17:18:35 <[Noodles]> oh, ok, i'll just shut up then ^.^
1572 2010-12-12 17:18:39 <Diablo-D3> and about how they simd/instruction rotate
1573 2010-12-12 17:18:47 <Diablo-D3> and how many ALUs per pipe
1574 2010-12-12 17:18:51 <ArtForz> I should rename Sp to "shader ALU"
1575 2010-12-12 17:18:52 <Diablo-D3> and all other shit
1576 2010-12-12 17:18:56 altamic_ has joined
1577 2010-12-12 17:19:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wait, what?
1578 2010-12-12 17:19:17 <Diablo-D3> it only has that few?
1579 2010-12-12 17:19:18 <Diablo-D3> jesus.
1580 2010-12-12 17:19:20 <ArtForz> yes
1581 2010-12-12 17:19:29 <KwukDuck> can governments create a law that outlaws the use of any other currency then the mainstream one for that country?
1582 2010-12-12 17:19:37 <ArtForz> I doubt it
1583 2010-12-12 17:19:58 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: yes.
1584 2010-12-12 17:20:25 <ArtForz> errr... which western country does?
1585 2010-12-12 17:20:29 <Diablo-D3> the US.
1586 2010-12-12 17:20:34 <ArtForz> where?
1587 2010-12-12 17:20:37 <Diablo-D3> its already on the books.
1588 2010-12-12 17:20:39 <Diablo-D3> forget which one
1589 2010-12-12 17:20:51 <cosurgi> ok, guys. how about selling those bitcoins for $$$. anyone here did this already?
1590 2010-12-12 17:20:52 <Diablo-D3> they keep raiding people and stealing their property claiming they're commiting fraud
1591 2010-12-12 17:21:02 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: erm, yes, everyone here does it
1592 2010-12-12 17:21:12 <cosurgi> nice ;-)
1593 2010-12-12 17:21:32 <cosurgi> thats thoose http://www.bitcoin.org/trade "Currency Exchange" links?
1594 2010-12-12 17:21:44 <[Noodles]> that's what happens on the markets, see http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
1595 2010-12-12 17:21:50 <Diablo-D3> alright
1596 2010-12-12 17:21:52 <Diablo-D3> going to bed
1597 2010-12-12 17:21:53 <Diablo-D3> for real
1598 2010-12-12 17:21:53 <ArtForz> well, even if you trade stuff for goats or seashells you still have to put it as income on your tax form
1599 2010-12-12 17:21:54 <Diablo-D3> night all
1600 2010-12-12 17:21:57 * Diablo-D3 closes laptop
1601 2010-12-12 17:22:05 <Diablo-D3> also
1602 2010-12-12 17:22:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they raided people who even just had the currency
1603 2010-12-12 17:22:30 <Diablo-D3> claiming they were counterfeiting money
1604 2010-12-12 17:22:35 <ArtForz> well, thats just bullshit
1605 2010-12-12 17:22:41 <Diablo-D3> and claiming people could get confused and think it was US money
1606 2010-12-12 17:22:54 <ArtForz> = it too closely resembled dollars
1607 2010-12-12 17:22:56 <Diablo-D3> even though many currencies were designed to look nothing like US currency
1608 2010-12-12 17:22:58 <KwukDuck> well thats a scenario not unlikely to happen more with bitcoin
1609 2010-12-12 17:23:15 <Diablo-D3> because THEY didnt want to be confused with monopoly money
1610 2010-12-12 17:23:16 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1611 2010-12-12 17:23:16 altamic_ is now known as altamic
1612 2010-12-12 17:23:39 <Diablo-D3> look at that one place that was operating out of that mint in hawaii or whatever
1613 2010-12-12 17:23:58 <Diablo-D3> the government stole the already sold product out of the warehouse and destroyed it
1614 2010-12-12 17:24:04 <Diablo-D3> after it was minted already
1615 2010-12-12 17:24:46 <ArtForz> well, govt can claim your currency too closely resembles USD, then you have to prove otherwise
1616 2010-12-12 17:25:02 <ArtForz> same crap in trademark disputes
1617 2010-12-12 17:25:07 <Diablo-D3> except there was no trial
1618 2010-12-12 17:25:13 <Diablo-D3> the government came in and destroyed it all
1619 2010-12-12 17:25:32 <Kiba> so they're going to try the same thing with bitcoin
1620 2010-12-12 17:25:42 <ArtForz> how woudl that work?
1621 2010-12-12 17:25:50 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: how can that work?
1622 2010-12-12 17:25:54 <Diablo-D3> they'd have to shut off the entire internet
1623 2010-12-12 17:26:02 <Kiba> they have to try, will try
1624 2010-12-12 17:26:07 <Kiba> right?
1625 2010-12-12 17:26:17 <Diablo-D3> sure, they can go into the wearhouse and still all the sha keys.
1626 2010-12-12 17:26:23 * Diablo-D3 hands them the disc
1627 2010-12-12 17:26:30 <Diablo-D3> good jorb .gov
1628 2010-12-12 17:26:46 <ArtForz> anti-counterfeiting laws shouldnt be a problem for BTC
1629 2010-12-12 17:27:14 <Kiba> governments. They hate their monopolies getting trampled on.
1630 2010-12-12 17:27:20 <ArtForz> LR$ might be asking for it
1631 2010-12-12 17:27:30 <MT`AwAy> they'll just add a law against bitcoins
1632 2010-12-12 17:27:34 <MT`AwAy> if they really want to
1633 2010-12-12 17:27:36 <ArtForz> yup
1634 2010-12-12 17:27:47 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: but then people still violate copyright law.
1635 2010-12-12 17:27:54 <Kiba> and new laws is going to add disrespect
1636 2010-12-12 17:28:16 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: hasn't it always been the case?
1637 2010-12-12 17:28:44 <Kiba> One thing for sure, they're going to try hard.
1638 2010-12-12 17:29:04 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, REALLY going to bed now
1639 2010-12-12 17:29:06 <Diablo-D3> *poof*
1640 2010-12-12 17:29:12 <Kiba> of course, you still have to pay your taxes in USD
1641 2010-12-12 17:30:17 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I don't see the US having a problem with bitcoind
1642 2010-12-12 17:30:28 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|It'd be like investing in stocks, in gold, or some other asset
1643 2010-12-12 17:30:39 syna has joined
1644 2010-12-12 17:30:59 <Kiba> they can take away your gold, stocks, etc
1645 2010-12-12 17:31:09 uberjar has joined
1646 2010-12-12 17:31:11 <Kiba> but if you're well prepared, they can't take away your bitcoins
1647 2010-12-12 17:31:40 <ArtForz> if you're well prepared they can't take away your gold either ;)
1648 2010-12-12 17:31:42 <syna> Just curious how much bitcoin is generated on average for the regular user per day currently
1649 2010-12-12 17:31:47 <syna> Anyone know?
1650 2010-12-12 17:32:01 <MT`AwAy> syna: 50 new bitcoins per 10 minutes
1651 2010-12-12 17:32:03 <ArtForz> depends on that regular users hashrate
1652 2010-12-12 17:32:08 <engla> Kiba: I think gold is a bit better value store than bitcoin :-)
1653 2010-12-12 17:32:11 <MT`AwAy> for the whole network
1654 2010-12-12 17:32:18 * MT`AwAy is getting tired too
1655 2010-12-12 17:32:19 <MT`AwAy> XD
1656 2010-12-12 17:32:30 <syna> I have been running the bitcoin app for weeks and not recieved anything
1657 2010-12-12 17:32:37 <MT`AwAy> syna: how many hashes/sec?
1658 2010-12-12 17:32:42 <MT`AwAy> engla: for now, only the future will tell us if it's still true or not
1659 2010-12-12 17:32:52 <syna> i think around 1800 - 2000
1660 2010-12-12 17:33:01 <ArtForz> bitcoin sure is more convenient for international transfers :P
1661 2010-12-12 17:33:19 <Kiba> international commerce strengthen ties between nations, which lead to world peace
1662 2010-12-12 17:33:28 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1663 2010-12-12 17:33:37 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 2000
1664 2010-12-12 17:33:38 * uberjar visualizes whirred peas
1665 2010-12-12 17:33:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 43 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds
1666 2010-12-12 17:33:43 <MT`AwAy> syna: 43 weeks average
1667 2010-12-12 17:33:45 <engla> MT`AwAy: gold has the benefit of history to establish itself, an advantage of 4000+ years. future will tell about the next millenia
1668 2010-12-12 17:33:47 <Kiba> in this case, the whole western hampishare is slowly strenghtening its tie
1669 2010-12-12 17:34:03 <syna> so it will take 43 weeks to generate 1 btc?
1670 2010-12-12 17:34:11 <syna> theoretically?
1671 2010-12-12 17:34:11 <MT`AwAy> syna: to generate 50 btc
1672 2010-12-12 17:34:12 <Kiba> 50 BTC
1673 2010-12-12 17:34:21 <MT`AwAy> syna: if you want btc in smaller amounts but faster, join the pool
1674 2010-12-12 17:34:24 <ArtForz> 50btc, and it's just the average of a random process
1675 2010-12-12 17:34:34 <syna> oh, well that should be slightly more than 1 per week then
1676 2010-12-12 17:34:43 <syna> does it not credit you untill you hit 50 or something?
1677 2010-12-12 17:34:43 <uberjar> oh.. so you don't get any until you've earned 50 ?
1678 2010-12-12 17:34:44 <MT`AwAy> syna: BTC are generated by block
1679 2010-12-12 17:34:52 <MT`AwAy> you'll randomly get 50 BTC
1680 2010-12-12 17:34:59 <syna> Ahh, ok
1681 2010-12-12 17:35:00 <ArtForz> and thats exactly what the pool solves
1682 2010-12-12 17:35:01 <engla> syna: think of it like a lottery
1683 2010-12-12 17:35:02 <MT`AwAy> at your rate, it's likely to happen once every ~43 weeks
1684 2010-12-12 17:35:12 <MT`AwAy> the pool solves this by allowing you to get btc faster
1685 2010-12-12 17:35:14 <Kiba> that's a long time
1686 2010-12-12 17:35:14 <syna> I was expecting it to be like small amounts every now and then
1687 2010-12-12 17:35:25 <MT`AwAy> syna: that's what the pool is for
1688 2010-12-12 17:35:26 <uberjar> where do I read up on this pool ?
1689 2010-12-12 17:35:34 <syna> Yeah, so how does one join the pool?
1690 2010-12-12 17:35:38 <Kiba> newbie, newbie, everywhere!
1691 2010-12-12 17:35:46 <syna> I am completely new to btc
1692 2010-12-12 17:35:54 <MT`AwAy> anyone can give the pool thread url to syna ?
1693 2010-12-12 17:36:01 <MT`AwAy> (and maybe include it in the topic?)
1694 2010-12-12 17:36:11 <syna> i can google search for it if it is out there
1695 2010-12-12 17:37:04 <MT`AwAy> it is out there, just that ppl were giving the link here not long ago, but we talk too much so my backlog doesn't cover that anymore
1696 2010-12-12 17:37:40 <ArtForz> ,,pool
1697 2010-12-12 17:37:40 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1698 2010-12-12 17:38:06 Granttt has joined
1699 2010-12-12 17:39:07 <[Noodles]> doublec: pool down, or upgrading?
1700 2010-12-12 17:42:46 <chuck> ;;bc,calc 3860
1701 2010-12-12 17:42:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3860 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 22 weeks, 3 days, 18 hours, 51 minutes, and 5 seconds
1702 2010-12-12 17:46:40 <uberjar> is this for real ? http://www.nanaimo-gold.com/bitcoin.php
1703 2010-12-12 17:47:13 <Kiba> nanamigold got a reputation in the community, so it's likely real
1704 2010-12-12 17:47:34 <uberjar> I've been holding pecunix for almost 5 years now. I know it's *real money*. I find it kind of hard to believe that nanaimo could do this
1705 2010-12-12 17:47:40 <uberjar> but heyh
1706 2010-12-12 17:47:47 <uberjar> if it's real then that's amazing
1707 2010-12-12 17:47:54 <ArtForz> pecunix is real money?
1708 2010-12-12 17:48:00 <uberjar> yeah mayne
1709 2010-12-12 17:48:32 <cosurgi> question: where will I find explanation of all those fields printed by `bitcoind getinfo` ?
1710 2010-12-12 17:48:34 <uberjar> if you have pecunix you can turn that into a wire transfer that pays for bullion.
1711 2010-12-12 17:48:48 <cosurgi> on wiki maybe?
1712 2010-12-12 17:50:02 <ArtForz> since when does pecunix store USD?
1713 2010-12-12 17:50:10 <uberjar> it stores gold
1714 2010-12-12 17:50:28 <uberjar> but you can easily turn that into USD by selling your pecunix
1715 2010-12-12 17:50:38 <ArtForz> pecunix always claimed to be digital gold, and so far I've seen 0 proof that they actually hold the amount of gold they're circulating as currency
1716 2010-12-12 17:51:02 <uberjar> their inventory is publically audited
1717 2010-12-12 17:51:10 <uberjar> although I admit it's not one of the top 4 auditing firms
1718 2010-12-12 17:51:33 <uberjar> goldmoney.com has a more transparent auditing process I think
1719 2010-12-12 17:51:45 <uberjar> but goldmoney isn't nearly as anonymous
1720 2010-12-12 17:52:43 <uberjar> cgold is a good balance... you get almost the same anonatimity as pecunix, but you can also go redeem your cgold for bullion at their office in malaysia.
1721 2010-12-12 17:52:56 <ArtForz> erm... I see one tiny problem with auditing
1722 2010-12-12 17:54:32 <ArtForz> who verifies that the amount issued as currency is actually <= the amount held in gold?
1723 2010-12-12 17:56:09 <uberjar> in theory pecunix could be lying about the amount of digital currency they've issued. I see you what you mean. Even if the audit proves they hold 3000 ounces of gold there's no wway to audit the amount of currency issued
1724 2010-12-12 17:56:18 <ArtForz> yep
1725 2010-12-12 17:56:35 <cosurgi> hmm, why there's no link to wki from main website http://www.bitcoin.org/
1726 2010-12-12 17:56:53 <uberjar> goldmoney.com solves this by letting you know the serial numbers for the actual bars associated with your holdings
1727 2010-12-12 17:57:00 <Kiba> cosurgi: there is.
1728 2010-12-12 17:57:01 <ArtForz> yep, thats better
1729 2010-12-12 17:57:06 <uberjar> and thos serial numbers match the audit
1730 2010-12-12 17:57:08 <Kiba> it's called documentation
1731 2010-12-12 17:57:13 Grantt has joined
1732 2010-12-12 17:57:17 <cosurgi> aha!
1733 2010-12-12 17:57:31 <cosurgi> it's called 'documentation', sorry :) I was searching for 'wki'
1734 2010-12-12 17:57:33 <cosurgi> 'wiki'
1735 2010-12-12 17:58:05 * cosurgi is blind :)
1736 2010-12-12 17:58:16 <ArtForz> I still like pecunix because they allow pretty much anonymous accounts
1737 2010-12-12 17:58:42 alystair has joined
1738 2010-12-12 17:58:43 <ArtForz> but I personally wouldnt want to keep larger amounts there long-term
1739 2010-12-12 17:58:43 <uberjar> yep. gotta love that
1740 2010-12-12 17:59:11 <uberjar> I use it as my cache for online poker funds
1741 2010-12-12 17:59:19 <uberjar> I play poker at pecunix casinos
1742 2010-12-12 17:59:44 <uberjar> but yeah definitely not for a long-term savings account
1743 2010-12-12 18:01:00 <uberjar> I've never had any trouble redeeming pecunix though. I typically sell the pecunix and have the exchanger wire the funds to a mint where I buy silver or something almost as shiny
1744 2010-12-12 18:01:16 <ArtForz> yup
1745 2010-12-12 18:01:17 necrodearia has quit (Changing host)
1746 2010-12-12 18:01:17 necrodearia has joined
1747 2010-12-12 18:01:18 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1748 2010-12-12 18:01:22 alystair has left ()
1749 2010-12-12 18:02:43 <uberjar> I wish someone could convince Bilzzard to exchange bitcoin/wow-gold.
1750 2010-12-12 18:02:53 Grantt is now known as Granttt
1751 2010-12-12 18:03:00 <uberjar> if that happened all of a sudden it'd be easy to sell bitcoin on ebay
1752 2010-12-12 18:03:08 <ArtForz> unlikely
1753 2010-12-12 18:04:11 <uberjar> unlikely that blizzard would do it ?
1754 2010-12-12 18:04:16 <ArtForz> yup
1755 2010-12-12 18:04:29 <uberjar> yeah, but in theory it would not cost them anything
1756 2010-12-12 18:05:05 <Granttt> after finally getting my vaio notebook to accept nonsony ati driver, i have this problem with the "cocacola miner": "ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could not be found." << any thoughts on what causes this/how to fix it ?
1757 2010-12-12 18:06:02 <uberjar> if enough bitcoin fanatics show up at blizcon..
1758 2010-12-12 18:10:41 rrl has joined
1759 2010-12-12 18:12:16 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1760 2010-12-12 18:12:18 engla has left ()
1761 2010-12-12 18:12:58 rrl has quit (Client Quit)
1762 2010-12-12 18:14:56 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1763 2010-12-12 18:15:57 <Granttt> nvm, diablominer works flawlessly now :)
1764 2010-12-12 18:16:48 <Granttt> ;;bc,calc 40639
1765 2010-12-12 18:16:49 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1766 2010-12-12 18:16:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40639 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 41 minutes, and 6 seconds
1767 2010-12-12 18:17:17 <uberjar> ;;bc,calc 99999999
1768 2010-12-12 18:17:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 99999999 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 minutes and 46 seconds
1769 2010-12-12 18:17:42 <Granttt> nice gfx card you have, uberjar ;)
1770 2010-12-12 18:18:02 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc help
1771 2010-12-12 18:18:03 <gribble> Error: 'help' is not a defined function.
1772 2010-12-12 18:18:03 <uberjar> ;) thnx santa showed up early this year
1773 2010-12-12 18:18:07 Kiba has joined
1774 2010-12-12 18:18:08 <cosurgi> :)
1775 2010-12-12 18:18:19 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 16621
1776 2010-12-12 18:18:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16621 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 26 minutes, and 40 seconds
1777 2010-12-12 18:18:30 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 4369
1778 2010-12-12 18:18:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4369 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 19 weeks, 6 days, 9 hours, 40 minutes, and 23 seconds
1779 2010-12-12 18:18:59 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 15750596
1780 2010-12-12 18:19:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15750596 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 55 minutes and 40 seconds
1781 2010-12-12 18:19:05 <Kiba> wee
1782 2010-12-12 18:19:09 <Kiba> I am back
1783 2010-12-12 18:19:09 <Kiba> in my newly resized partition
1784 2010-12-12 18:29:44 StrangeCharm has joined
1785 2010-12-12 18:30:46 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 206621
1786 2010-12-12 18:30:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 206621 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 22 hours, 44 minutes, and 39 seconds
1787 2010-12-12 18:37:28 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 46621
1788 2010-12-12 18:37:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46621 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 week, 6 days, 1 hour, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds
1789 2010-12-12 18:42:24 akem has joined
1790 2010-12-12 18:42:25 akem has quit (Changing host)
1791 2010-12-12 18:42:25 akem has joined
1792 2010-12-12 18:42:43 phuzion has joined
1793 2010-12-12 18:43:54 <Kiba> doublec: server down?
1794 2010-12-12 18:47:46 <zzop> ;;bc,calc 883
1795 2010-12-12 18:47:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 883 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 46 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 4 minutes, and 24 seconds
1796 2010-12-12 18:48:00 <zzop> Damn. :)
1797 2010-12-12 18:48:54 <cosurgi> wait till my slow server finishes downloading blocks - we will see it's speed, and you'll be a bit happier :)
1798 2010-12-12 18:49:41 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,calc 420
1799 2010-12-12 18:49:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 420 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 years, 50 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 58 minutes, and 6 seconds
1800 2010-12-12 18:49:48 <[Noodles]> yay!
1801 2010-12-12 18:49:59 <[Noodles]> that's an intel Atom N270
1802 2010-12-12 18:50:06 <Granttt> lol
1803 2010-12-12 18:50:12 <zzop> haha
1804 2010-12-12 18:50:17 <zzop> [Noodles]: Now I don't feel so bad :-)
1805 2010-12-12 18:50:29 <zzop> Are some people really doing 16621 Khps?
1806 2010-12-12 18:51:07 <[Noodles]> well, i do ~400 000khash/s combined, but even that isn't much
1807 2010-12-12 18:51:31 <[Noodles]> a single HD5970 is faster than that
1808 2010-12-12 18:52:17 <KwukDuck> Noodles, what card?
1809 2010-12-12 18:52:25 <[Noodles]> 3cards actually
1810 2010-12-12 18:52:37 <nanotube> zzop: if you're that slow, you'll probably never generate a block - join the ,,pool instead.
1811 2010-12-12 18:52:37 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
1812 2010-12-12 18:52:38 <[Noodles]> HD5850/HD5570/GTX260
1813 2010-12-12 18:52:45 <KwukDuck> pooled?
1814 2010-12-12 18:52:45 <zzop> nanotube: How?
1815 2010-12-12 18:52:53 <nanotube> zzop: see the link gribble posted
1816 2010-12-12 18:53:41 <[Noodles]> mine? the GTX is pooled
1817 2010-12-12 18:53:49 <[Noodles]> as long as the pool isnt offline
1818 2010-12-12 18:53:50 pisi has joined
1819 2010-12-12 18:54:04 <cosurgi> hm, is there any service that will buy bitcoins and send money directly to my VISA card, that I already have in my real-wallet?
1820 2010-12-12 18:54:05 <UukGoblin> hrm
1821 2010-12-12 18:54:17 <UukGoblin> so most 5770s work at around 70-80 deg in my setup
1822 2010-12-12 18:54:35 <UukGoblin> but one has superfans and it's at 58 on 850MHz and 61 deg at 1100MHz
1823 2010-12-12 18:54:54 <cosurgi> I know that sending cach to VISA is possible, through refunding process. So just sending cash should be possible too. But is there a service doing this...?
1824 2010-12-12 18:54:56 <UukGoblin> unfortunately overclocking to 1125 makes it hang up
1825 2010-12-12 18:55:35 <UukGoblin> I'll try voltage now
1826 2010-12-12 18:55:38 <UukGoblin> but it's kinda weird.
1827 2010-12-12 18:55:40 <[Noodles]> there's a service selling prepaid cards for bitcoins, not sure about loading your card
1828 2010-12-12 18:56:06 <pisi> Hello, I'm halfway through with the bitcon FAQ after reading about it on /.
1829 2010-12-12 18:56:52 <pisi> If there are developers in Europe, maybe you're interested in http://www.opensc-project.org/opensc/wiki/FOSDEM2011
1830 2010-12-12 18:56:58 <ArtForz> loading cards is a problem due to KYC laws
1831 2010-12-12 18:57:11 <UukGoblin> hi Art :-)
1832 2010-12-12 18:57:38 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, did you get any of your 5770s above 1100MHz? :-)
1833 2010-12-12 18:57:39 <cosurgi> so what is the easiset way to get money, if I live in Europe?
1834 2010-12-12 18:57:53 <[Noodles]> rob a bank
1835 2010-12-12 18:57:53 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, find a job? ;-)
1836 2010-12-12 18:58:04 <cosurgi> lol. I already have
1837 2010-12-12 18:58:12 <cosurgi> now I'm talking about selling bitcoins.
1838 2010-12-12 18:58:35 <nanotube> bitcoin2cc gives you prepaid visa cards...
1839 2010-12-12 18:59:05 <cosurgi> http://www.bitcoin2cc.com/
1840 2010-12-12 18:59:23 <ArtForz> well, if you live in EURia ecardone has decent fees for LR$ -> EUR wire
1841 2010-12-12 18:59:27 ^daedalus^ has joined
1842 2010-12-12 18:59:38 <^daedalus^> hi
1843 2010-12-12 19:00:14 <cosurgi> what is 'LR$' ?
1844 2010-12-12 19:00:20 <nanotube> liberty reserve usd
1845 2010-12-12 19:00:28 <[Noodles]> what payment options do you accept? and what's your price? maybe i'll buy them
1846 2010-12-12 19:00:43 zygf has joined
1847 2010-12-12 19:00:58 <cosurgi> I have none to sell yet :) I'm checking how it works. First block should be in few weeks :)
1848 2010-12-12 19:01:50 <cosurgi> what is 'EURia ecardone' I'm not seeing anything of similar name in http://www.bitcoin.org/trade .....
1849 2010-12-12 19:01:53 <cosurgi> ?
1850 2010-12-12 19:02:25 <cosurgi> If I manage to sell some bitcoins I'll invest in ATI card, because I have access to free electricity :)
1851 2010-12-12 19:02:25 <^daedalus^> hi, i am porting bitcoind to ppc64
1852 2010-12-12 19:02:34 <^daedalus^> and i need some help
1853 2010-12-12 19:02:35 <ArtForz> EURia = EUR currency zone
1854 2010-12-12 19:03:06 <ArtForz> ecardone ... errr... how bout http://ecardone.com ?
1855 2010-12-12 19:04:08 <cosurgi> hmm... why ecardone.com is not listed on http://www.bitcoin.org/trade , or I'm blind?
1856 2010-12-12 19:04:16 ogden has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1857 2010-12-12 19:04:20 <ArtForz> because they have nothing to do with bicoin?
1858 2010-12-12 19:05:13 <cosurgi> aha, I'm getting it. thanks :)
1859 2010-12-12 19:05:41 <pisi> (I'd prefer keeping my ECDSA keys on a smart card and thus my "wallet" more secure than with a password...)
1860 2010-12-12 19:07:15 <zzop> Oh yeah, good point: Is the PS3 GPU pretty good for Bitcoin crunching? :)
1861 2010-12-12 19:07:37 <ArtForz> no clue
1862 2010-12-12 19:07:39 KwukDuck has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1863 2010-12-12 19:07:57 <ArtForz> afaik nobody has a useful driver
1864 2010-12-12 19:08:10 <ArtForz> and the SPUs on the cell are laughable
1865 2010-12-12 19:08:43 <Kiba> SPUs?
1866 2010-12-12 19:09:06 <ArtForz> err, SPEs
1867 2010-12-12 19:09:21 <ArtForz> Synergistic Processing Element
1868 2010-12-12 19:10:03 <ArtForz> ps3 cell processor = PPC CPU + 8 (6 or 7 available) SPEs
1869 2010-12-12 19:10:09 <nanotube> sounds like something straight out of a marketing flyer. heh
1870 2010-12-12 19:10:17 <nanotube> (the name of it, i mean)
1871 2010-12-12 19:10:22 <ArtForz> yep
1872 2010-12-12 19:10:26 <ArtForz> each SPE is a 128-bit SIMD engine
1873 2010-12-12 19:10:31 Lyspooner has joined
1874 2010-12-12 19:10:35 <ArtForz> iirc they're clocked at 3.2GHz in PS3
1875 2010-12-12 19:11:00 <ArtForz> no native rotate, so ~6640 ops for one bitcoinhash
1876 2010-12-12 19:12:03 <ArtForz> so 3200MHz * 7 SPEs * 4 SIMD width / 6640 ops ... 13.5Mh/s
1877 2010-12-12 19:12:14 justincappos has joined
1878 2010-12-12 19:12:17 <zzop> Well it's not bad :)
1879 2010-12-12 19:12:31 <ArtForz> yeah, nearly as fast as a PhenomII hexacore
1880 2010-12-12 19:12:55 <ArtForz> so you need only 40 PS3s to match a single HD5970
1881 2010-12-12 19:13:25 <nanotube> ArtForz: since there are a lot of ps3s out there, and people tend to have them just sitting there (some even leave them on to crunch folding@home!), it seems it wouldn't be a bad use of a ps3.
1882 2010-12-12 19:13:54 <ArtForz> depends on power usage
1883 2010-12-12 19:14:26 <nanotube> i doubt crunching folding is less powerhungry than crunching bitcoin
1884 2010-12-12 19:14:35 <ArtForz> true
1885 2010-12-12 19:16:38 Toadyonps3 has joined
1886 2010-12-12 19:16:42 <ArtForz> newer PS3 uses about 115W while folding
1887 2010-12-12 19:17:30 <ArtForz> looks about as efficient as mining on a decent CPU
1888 2010-12-12 19:17:39 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: wasn't the ability to run one's own code disabled on PS3 to avoid hacks?
1889 2010-12-12 19:17:44 <ArtForz> yep
1890 2010-12-12 19:18:18 <ArtForz> but iirc even current PS3s are still hackable
1891 2010-12-12 19:18:37 <MT`AwAy> yep, downgradable
1892 2010-12-12 19:18:47 <ArtForz> so ~4500W for 39.5 PS3s vs. 300W for a 5970
1893 2010-12-12 19:20:07 <justincappos> I'm a total bitcoin newbie and I'm trying to get a grasp on the system. I read the technical paper and looked briefly over the forums, etc. The big thing I'm missing is why any vendor wants bit coin currency? If I understand correctly, it only has value because other vendors believe it has value...
1894 2010-12-12 19:20:51 <ArtForz> yes, as with any fiat currency
1895 2010-12-12 19:22:12 <UukGoblin> justincappos, it's a risk-based investment, like with shares
1896 2010-12-12 19:22:21 <UukGoblin> they believe it will have higher value in future
1897 2010-12-12 19:22:25 <UukGoblin> like gold
1898 2010-12-12 19:22:59 <MT`AwAy> or they believe someone will be willing to buy the received btc
1899 2010-12-12 19:23:09 <justincappos> but gold has intrinsic value due to it's use in medicine, electronics, jewelry, etc.
1900 2010-12-12 19:23:09 <Granttt> no chargebacks has lots of value for many businesses
1901 2010-12-12 19:23:10 <MT`AwAy> not in the future, but right now
1902 2010-12-12 19:23:31 <justincappos> it seems like this is more like buying beanie babies
1903 2010-12-12 19:23:39 <MT`AwAy> justincappos: gold has a value because it is desirable, just do the same with bitcoins
1904 2010-12-12 19:23:56 <Lyspooner> beanie babies have more intrinsic value than bitcoins
1905 2010-12-12 19:24:00 <justincappos> right
1906 2010-12-12 19:24:02 <ArtForz> yep
1907 2010-12-12 19:24:20 <justincappos> but it is far less than the perceived value
1908 2010-12-12 19:24:41 <ArtForz> bitcoin has no other use, thus no intrinsic value
1909 2010-12-12 19:24:51 <justincappos> okay, right
1910 2010-12-12 19:25:13 <justincappos> And there is a fixed cap on the amount of currency there can ever be, right?
1911 2010-12-12 19:25:18 <ArtForz> yep
1912 2010-12-12 19:25:44 <justincappos> so is there any incentive for people to run the software once that point is reached?
1913 2010-12-12 19:26:09 <ArtForz> yes
1914 2010-12-12 19:26:46 <ArtForz> 1. transaction fees 2. to protect the value of held BTC
1915 2010-12-12 19:27:14 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1916 2010-12-12 19:27:15 <ArtForz> generation wont drop to zero any time soon though
1917 2010-12-12 19:27:19 <justincappos> ight
1918 2010-12-12 19:27:40 <[Noodles]> if people don't run it anymore once that point is reached, you won't notice ^.^
1919 2010-12-12 19:28:00 <ArtForz> it'll drop < 1btc at block 1260000
1920 2010-12-12 19:28:27 <ArtForz> = in about 22 years
1921 2010-12-12 19:28:36 <justincappos> okay
1922 2010-12-12 19:29:50 <justincappos> so back to the issue of having value. I seems the currency in the system has value upon the expectation you can exchange it with someone else later
1923 2010-12-12 19:30:29 <cosurgi> on wikipedia, the main article is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_Incubator/Bitcoin , right?
1924 2010-12-12 19:30:59 <ArtForz> it's still a work in progress, but yes
1925 2010-12-12 19:31:40 <justincappos> what is the purpose of the p2p nature of currency minting?
1926 2010-12-12 19:31:53 genjix has joined
1927 2010-12-12 19:31:53 <ArtForz> "fair" distribution
1928 2010-12-12 19:32:05 <genjix> hey
1929 2010-12-12 19:32:09 <nanotube> and so there's no one central authority - makes it harder to kill.
1930 2010-12-12 19:32:14 <ArtForz> yep
1931 2010-12-12 19:32:25 <genjix> anyone know how to enable perl on ubuntu for apache2?
1932 2010-12-12 19:32:27 <justincappos> Don't you get these from: 1. transaction fees 2. to protect the value of held BTC
1933 2010-12-12 19:32:38 <genjix> thing makes me want to gouge out my eyes
1934 2010-12-12 19:33:01 <ArtForz> well, you have to issue the currency units somehow
1935 2010-12-12 19:33:10 <nanotube> genjix: probably something about apt-get installing mod_perl, and adding something to your httpd.conf... :)
1936 2010-12-12 19:33:45 <justincappos> why do you need to issue new units? Why can't you start with a fixed amount of currency?
1937 2010-12-12 19:33:59 omglolbbq1 has joined
1938 2010-12-12 19:34:01 <genjix> define something :p
1939 2010-12-12 19:34:20 <cosurgi> they are mined, just like miners mine real gold. Here mining is CPU time.
1940 2010-12-12 19:34:35 <ArtForz> who gets that fixed amount of currency?
1941 2010-12-12 19:34:37 <[Noodles]> and who's to own that fixed amount?
1942 2010-12-12 19:34:40 RazielZ has quit ()
1943 2010-12-12 19:34:48 <appamatto> Wow, another slashdot
1944 2010-12-12 19:35:20 <[Noodles]> think of it as if the coins already exist and we'r all searching for them in the woods
1945 2010-12-12 19:35:24 <ArtForz> handing it out by IP is a bad idea (hello botnets ...)
1946 2010-12-12 19:35:28 <justincappos> (I'm more asking because it seems that will be the situation in 22 years)
1947 2010-12-12 19:35:30 <MT`AwAy> something tells me more and more people will come here asking questions about bitcoin
1948 2010-12-12 19:35:41 <cosurgi> yes. slashdot
1949 2010-12-12 19:35:51 <ArtForz> so handing it out by CPU power contributed to the chain is pretty damn fair
1950 2010-12-12 19:35:53 <justincappos> (not that I have a great idea for handing out initial currency)
1951 2010-12-12 19:36:11 <cosurgi> each ~/.bitcoin directory is a separate wallet, right?
1952 2010-12-12 19:36:22 <ArtForz> at least I dont see a obvious better way
1953 2010-12-12 19:36:34 <justincappos> right, but one could do this based solely upon transaction fees
1954 2010-12-12 19:36:42 <ArtForz> transaction fees on what?
1955 2010-12-12 19:36:53 <cosurgi> if I crunch CPU time on several PCs, then to have all those BTS in single wallet, I'll need to make transation and send BTC to myself?
1956 2010-12-12 19:36:56 <ArtForz> if nobody has coins, nobody can spend coins, so nobody gets any fees
1957 2010-12-12 19:36:56 <justincappos> As I understand it, you're using the p2p system as an escrow service for validating transitions
1958 2010-12-12 19:36:56 <zzop> Many more "slashdots" coming guys. :-)
1959 2010-12-12 19:36:59 <justincappos> *tranactions
1960 2010-12-12 19:37:04 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: yes
1961 2010-12-12 19:37:34 <cosurgi> MT`AwAy: thx. How about backups of ~/.bitcoin ? When a backup gets invalidated?
1962 2010-12-12 19:37:35 <appamatto> It's interesting that libertarians are so suspicious of bitcoin-like systems
1963 2010-12-12 19:37:54 theymos has joined
1964 2010-12-12 19:37:59 <appamatto> howdy theymos
1965 2010-12-12 19:38:02 <theymos> Hi.
1966 2010-12-12 19:38:05 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: you can backup only the wallet.dat file, however it gets invalidated almost each time you receive coins
1967 2010-12-12 19:38:10 <justincappos> so if the p2p system is helping you validate the flow of virtual currency, why not pay for this directly? Why have the minting process?
1968 2010-12-12 19:38:17 <ArtForz> MT: completely wrong
1969 2010-12-12 19:38:24 BitCoinz has joined
1970 2010-12-12 19:38:32 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: when you receive bitcoins on a given address, bitcoin will generate a new one
1971 2010-12-12 19:38:43 <cosurgi> MT`AwAy: ok, so if I don't make any transation for 1 year, a backup which is 1 year old will still be valid?
1972 2010-12-12 19:38:57 <ArtForz> yes, and how would anyone get that address?
1973 2010-12-12 19:39:11 <[Noodles]> justincappos: -->ArtForz: "fair" distribution
1974 2010-12-12 19:39:39 <ArtForz> cosurgi: yup
1975 2010-12-12 19:39:45 <cosurgi> ArtForz: thx :)
1976 2010-12-12 19:39:46 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: wallet file contains all your bitcoin addresses, and bitcoin addresses are created in many occasions, including sending and receiving coins
1977 2010-12-12 19:39:55 <BitCoinz> Hello Room
1978 2010-12-12 19:40:10 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: I can only recommand making regular backups and securing them (anyone with your wallet has your coins)
1979 2010-12-12 19:40:12 <justincappos> Noodles: Isn't it fair to pay for the p2p validation of currency flow?
1980 2010-12-12 19:40:13 <ArtForz> wallet also stores the next 100 addresses
1981 2010-12-12 19:40:34 <[Noodles]> justincappos: there has to BE a currency
1982 2010-12-12 19:40:50 <[Noodles]> without it, there are no transactions
1983 2010-12-12 19:40:56 <Granttt> justin: you cant pay for a currency flow if it doesnt exist
1984 2010-12-12 19:41:00 omglolbbq has joined
1985 2010-12-12 19:41:00 <appamatto> Has there been a spike in the hashes/sec?
1986 2010-12-12 19:41:10 <ArtForz> doesn't look like it
1987 2010-12-12 19:41:21 <ArtForz> still about 100Gh/s
1988 2010-12-12 19:41:21 * cosurgi already has a sophisticated backup system running, for 2 years now. uses rshapshot+rsync, 3 times per day, and everything is on raid6 array. Currently 6 machines are backed up with it :)
1989 2010-12-12 19:41:38 <justincappos> okay, so mining is a bootstrapping mechanism
1990 2010-12-12 19:41:46 <zzop> What are other projects like Bitcoin?
1991 2010-12-12 19:41:50 <justincappos> to allow initial currency to enter the system
1992 2010-12-12 19:41:53 <theymos> The new changes to SVN reverse the long-standing policy that fees are ignored by relaying peers. This means that the "diverse market full of miners with different fees" everyone expected will not work. I hope Satoshi considers these changes only temporary measures.
1993 2010-12-12 19:42:10 <appamatto> zzop, there are a few mentioned in the paper. hashcash and bitgold if I'm not mistaken?
1994 2010-12-12 19:42:26 <zzop> appamatto: Technologically similar?
1995 2010-12-12 19:42:26 <[Noodles]> justincappos: yes and to make it a fair process
1996 2010-12-12 19:42:34 <appamatto> zzop, but none of them appear to use a proof-of-work block chain I think
1997 2010-12-12 19:42:38 <ArtForz> theymos: ?
1998 2010-12-12 19:42:45 <BitCoinz> Mining pool is down for a few ours already
1999 2010-12-12 19:42:58 <BitCoinz> anyone noticed?
2000 2010-12-12 19:43:05 <[Noodles]> yep, i did
2001 2010-12-12 19:43:05 <appamatto> zzop, bitcoin appears to be unique in the key innovations
2002 2010-12-12 19:43:28 <BitCoinz> okay,,,thats the second time this weekend
2003 2010-12-12 19:43:29 <gribble> Error: ",thats" is not a valid command.
2004 2010-12-12 19:43:33 <omglolbbq> noticed
2005 2010-12-12 19:43:33 <appamatto> zzop, and that makes sense, because if a similar system existed it would already have an adhoc currency implemented on top of it
2006 2010-12-12 19:43:53 <theymos> ArtForz: SVN 200 was just committed less than an hour ago. See line 632: "Don't accept it if it can't get into a block".
2007 2010-12-12 19:44:03 omglolbbq1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2008 2010-12-12 19:44:09 <[Noodles]> BitCoinz: don't worry, your contributed hashes are saved
2009 2010-12-12 19:44:53 <ArtForz> I don't see the problem
2010 2010-12-12 19:45:39 omglolbbq is now known as KwukDuck
2011 2010-12-12 19:46:06 <KwukDuck> i hope the opencl issue with pool miner can be fixed
2012 2010-12-12 19:46:09 <BitCoinz> i noticed something strange friday eveing too while is was watching my hashrate..
2013 2010-12-12 19:46:34 <ArtForz> GetMinFee(1000) should only require a fee for large transactions
2014 2010-12-12 19:47:04 <BitCoinz> while is was cconnected to the pool miner
2015 2010-12-12 19:47:28 <zzop> HashCash -- what a weird idea.
2016 2010-12-12 19:47:38 <ArtForz> and the limitfreerelay limits free Tx to 150kB/10min, which is several times free block size
2017 2010-12-12 19:47:55 syna has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2018 2010-12-12 19:48:04 <theymos> ArtForz: True. But this is even backward-incompatible: old clients won't send fees for transactions under 60k or so.
2019 2010-12-12 19:48:27 <ArtForz> how old?
2020 2010-12-12 19:48:50 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
2021 2010-12-12 19:48:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.228,"low":0.2068,"vol":1675,"buy":0.21,"sell":0.2274,"last":0.2275}}
2022 2010-12-12 19:49:02 <genjix> ;;bc,help
2023 2010-12-12 19:49:02 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
2024 2010-12-12 19:49:15 <cosurgi> wow. Do you see a crossed 'B' symbol: ฿ ?
2025 2010-12-12 19:49:15 <genjix> ;;bc,totalbc
2026 2010-12-12 19:49:16 <gribble> 4861950.00000000
2027 2010-12-12 19:49:23 <genjix> cosurgi: yup
2028 2010-12-12 19:49:23 <joe_1> How can i get my site added to the Trade page?
2029 2010-12-12 19:49:28 <Lyspooner> is there a beginner's guide to understanding bitcoin transaction fees?
2030 2010-12-12 19:49:32 <theymos> ArtForz: 0.3.12 -- August.
2031 2010-12-12 19:49:33 <genjix> joe_1: post in the thread in market
2032 2010-12-12 19:49:38 justincappos has quit (Quit: justincappos)
2033 2010-12-12 19:49:49 <genjix> hold on ill get it for ya
2034 2010-12-12 19:50:00 <theymos> Lyspooner: https://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=transaction_fee
2035 2010-12-12 19:50:05 <genjix> joe_1: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=30.240
2036 2010-12-12 19:50:05 <ArtForz> hmmmm... true
2037 2010-12-12 19:50:30 <theymos> ArtForz: I'm also bothered by the principle of it. If miners want to accept huge transactions with lower fees, let them.
2038 2010-12-12 19:50:30 <joe_1> thanks
2039 2010-12-12 19:50:33 <BitCoinz> my hash rate mostly 2 times 966 khash/s but sudden it raised to 10500..and dropped down to 500 after....
2040 2010-12-12 19:51:02 <ArtForz> yerah, the GetMinFee is a problem
2041 2010-12-12 19:51:46 <ArtForz> limiting free TX per 10 min shouldnt cause much trouble
2042 2010-12-12 19:51:56 <theymos> Yeah; I don't have a problem with that.
2043 2010-12-12 19:52:26 <genjix> we're on slashdot again! http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/12/0647203/WikiLeaks-Money-and-Ron-Paul
2044 2010-12-12 19:52:35 <BitCoinz> Noodles: do you know why my hash can ever be that high?
2045 2010-12-12 19:53:45 <appamatto> BitCoinz, your clock is going crazy?
2046 2010-12-12 19:53:59 <theymos> ArtForz: This reminds me of a totally unrelated thing I was meaning to tell you. I was saying before that a change in GetMinFee removed a feature where generators would send more appropriate fees because they knew the blocksize. I emailed Satoshi about it, and it turns out GetMinFee never took into account blocksize.
2047 2010-12-12 19:54:03 <appamatto> ;;bc,estimate
2048 2010-12-12 19:54:03 <gribble> 13951.05410014
2049 2010-12-12 19:54:15 <appamatto> ;;bc,stats
2050 2010-12-12 19:54:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97239 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1544 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 59 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13951.05410014
2051 2010-12-12 19:54:18 <ArtForz> wha?
2052 2010-12-12 19:54:51 <BitCoinz> appamatto: yes it raised to 10500 suddenly.. and dropped back to 500 .. i have normally 2x 966
2053 2010-12-12 19:55:11 <ArtForz> yeah, you're right
2054 2010-12-12 19:55:11 engla has joined
2055 2010-12-12 19:55:42 <BitCoinz> appamatto: with both my cpu's
2056 2010-12-12 19:56:04 <BitCoinz> appamatto, also my earning did raise and drop
2057 2010-12-12 19:56:08 <appamatto> BitCoinz, I got nothing. Probably a bug or, again, your clock changing subtly
2058 2010-12-12 19:56:25 <Lyspooner> is it easier to generate a block when the the block contains many of your own transactions?
2059 2010-12-12 19:56:30 <ArtForz> no
2060 2010-12-12 19:56:42 <ArtForz> generating a block is always the same difficulty
2061 2010-12-12 19:56:44 <BitCoinz> appamatto, the poolserver is down no for several hours
2062 2010-12-12 19:57:08 <BitCoinz> but will be fixed, thx
2063 2010-12-12 19:57:29 ^daedalus^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2064 2010-12-12 19:57:30 <Lyspooner> ArtForz, you shouldn't have to pay transaction fees in the forseeable future because you generate many blocks?
2065 2010-12-12 19:57:38 <ArtForz> yup
2066 2010-12-12 19:57:49 <ArtForz> I can always include my transactions in my own blocks
2067 2010-12-12 19:58:39 <Lyspooner> if we are in a very transaction-heavy future, and i don't send my transactions with a transaction fee, i run the risk of never having my transaction confirmed?
2068 2010-12-12 19:58:43 <appamatto> ArtForz, do you get much in fees?
2069 2010-12-12 19:58:53 <ArtForz> nearly nothing
2070 2010-12-12 19:59:17 <ArtForz> maybe 0.1btc/week
2071 2010-12-12 19:59:20 <theymos> Lyspooner: You'll keep rebroadcasting it forever, so it will be included eventually. Could take years, though.
2072 2010-12-12 19:59:20 arcatan has joined
2073 2010-12-12 20:00:42 <ArtForz> well, we used to have the ability to replace a not-in-block transaction, the client just did so
2074 2010-12-12 20:00:46 <ArtForz> *just never did so
2075 2010-12-12 20:00:48 <engla> ppc is not supported?
2076 2010-12-12 20:01:00 <ArtForz> I dont think so, big endian
2077 2010-12-12 20:01:15 <engla> so bitcoin is not portable then
2078 2010-12-12 20:01:24 <cosurgi> awww.
2079 2010-12-12 20:01:25 <ArtForz> it's portbale, just not to BE machines
2080 2010-12-12 20:01:54 <cosurgi> would it be just enough to change the order of zero bits in the client?
2081 2010-12-12 20:01:59 <ArtForz> nope
2082 2010-12-12 20:02:18 <ArtForz> afaict theres endianness assumptions all over the place
2083 2010-12-12 20:02:30 <engla> that's stupid in fact, excuse the strong words
2084 2010-12-12 20:02:41 <cosurgi> I mean - reading bits backwards or something?
2085 2010-12-12 20:02:48 StrangeCharm has joined
2086 2010-12-12 20:03:01 <cosurgi> Or is it inherent to the nature of SHA algorithm?
2087 2010-12-12 20:03:01 <engla> Normally, hashes are computed in network byte order = big endian
2088 2010-12-12 20:03:09 <ArtForz> yes
2089 2010-12-12 20:03:17 <engla> maybe bitcoin uses a shortcut
2090 2010-12-12 20:03:24 <theymos> Satoshi said that he won't consider big-endian because it's "on the way out".
2091 2010-12-12 20:03:38 <ArtForz> and we take that BE hash and read it as a little-endian sequence of 32-bit little endian values
2092 2010-12-12 20:03:48 <engla> well they teach us "Thou shalt not assume the whole world is VAX"
2093 2010-12-12 20:03:59 <engla> in the end, portability matters
2094 2010-12-12 20:04:53 <theymos> Satoshi: "The code assumes little-endian throughout and was written with the intention of never being ported to big-endian. Every integer that is sent over the network would have to be byte swapped, in addition to many dozens of other places in code."
2095 2010-12-12 20:05:05 <ArtForz> yep
2096 2010-12-12 20:05:58 <engla> Even though you don't realize it, portability is more important today than it was before, not the other way around. New platforms are developed every year (mobile devices)
2097 2010-12-12 20:06:02 syna has joined
2098 2010-12-12 20:06:46 <genjix> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/12/0647203/WikiLeaks-Money-and-Ron-Paul
2099 2010-12-12 20:06:53 <genjix> Bitcoin article II
2100 2010-12-12 20:07:19 <ArtForz> yeah, but I doubt you're gonna port Cpp+Wx bitcoin to a mobile platform
2101 2010-12-12 20:08:09 <nanotube> eventually someone will make a portable client with python or java or something.
2102 2010-12-12 20:08:14 <ArtForz> yup
2103 2010-12-12 20:08:26 <ArtForz> and then theres they tiny problem of needing the block chain
2104 2010-12-12 20:08:45 <engla> ArtForz: what's the problem there?
2105 2010-12-12 20:08:51 <ArtForz> = that mobile device better be on a unlimited data plan
2106 2010-12-12 20:09:19 <theymos> Now you can download just headers, so it shouldn't be so bad.
2107 2010-12-12 20:09:33 <ArtForz> errr... no you can't
2108 2010-12-12 20:09:51 <engla> I won't try to beat this horse to death but, portability is always right IMO. But it's true alternative clients will exist
2109 2010-12-12 20:09:57 <engla> that's sort of the plan, I guess
2110 2010-12-12 20:10:00 <ArtForz> how do you figure out if a block contains a transaction for one of your addresses?
2111 2010-12-12 20:10:01 nelisky has joined
2112 2010-12-12 20:10:18 <ArtForz> right, you need all transactions in that block
2113 2010-12-12 20:10:23 <nanotube> ArtForz: just load up an almost-complete chain via usb, rather than getting it all from the p2p net.
2114 2010-12-12 20:10:43 <ArtForz> yet you still have to receive every tranasction once to figure out if it's for you
2115 2010-12-12 20:11:02 <engla> That sounds like a design issue in bitcoin
2116 2010-12-12 20:11:12 <nanotube> true... but not quite as bad as downloading the whole blockchain at the startup. :)
2117 2010-12-12 20:11:30 <ArtForz> of course if you have a trusted server things get a lot easier
2118 2010-12-12 20:11:32 <nanotube> (eating-up-of-dataplan-wise)
2119 2010-12-12 20:12:02 syna has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2120 2010-12-12 20:12:48 <ArtForz> you could still store the wallet on the device and just ask the server for "any TX for X, Y or Z since block 123" "yup, this one: X and thats it for up to block 768"
2121 2010-12-12 20:13:34 <theymos> Satoshi must have a plan for this. Maybe he expects IP transfers to become more common?
2122 2010-12-12 20:13:40 <ArtForz> so device still holds the private keys and signs transactions, relies on external server for handing along transations to/from it
2123 2010-12-12 20:13:55 <zzop> Hey guys who is going to be the first to take to the streets of San Francisco with a sign that says "Need change for beer. 1REPRsxqVAL9M7w6Hsz5dosa9opBEYf2ao"
2124 2010-12-12 20:13:55 <appamatto> Do you think a check against address creation would ever be reasonable?
2125 2010-12-12 20:14:37 <ArtForz> a what?
2126 2010-12-12 20:15:00 <appamatto> for instance, a cost associated with sending to an address that has never been sent to before
2127 2010-12-12 20:15:34 <ArtForz> what would be the point of that?
2128 2010-12-12 20:16:04 <appamatto> it would prevent balance sheets from getting too large
2129 2010-12-12 20:16:28 <genjix> I love this explanation of the Bitcoin block chain:
2130 2010-12-12 20:16:30 <genjix> "never ending story of money flows in the economy"
2131 2010-12-12 20:16:37 <appamatto> hehe
2132 2010-12-12 20:16:37 <ArtForz> so everyone has to store every address ever used?
2133 2010-12-12 20:16:59 <appamatto> ArtForz, well, yes
2134 2010-12-12 20:17:00 acous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2135 2010-12-12 20:18:29 <appamatto> Oh, actually I have an idea. Just being on the balance sheet is worth one btc, so the minimum balance for an account would be one btc, and if you spent that you would disappear from the sheet
2136 2010-12-12 20:18:47 <zzop> http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/06/30/bitcoin-and-the-wild-west/ <- I agree with this guy about the Bitcoin ID being "insufficiently mobile"
2137 2010-12-12 20:19:18 <appamatto> zzop, one could use bitdns to resolve to addresses
2138 2010-12-12 20:19:20 altamic has joined
2139 2010-12-12 20:19:28 <Lyspooner> i think nickels are less mobile than bitcoins
2140 2010-12-12 20:19:35 <appamatto> and you could just use zzop
2141 2010-12-12 20:19:39 bitbot has joined
2142 2010-12-12 20:19:51 <theymos> To solve the problem of learning of your own transactions, full network nodes can publish a list of the 5 bytes of every hash160 in blocks.
2143 2010-12-12 20:20:28 <zzop> appamatto: Could there be a "DNS of Bitcoin" ?
2144 2010-12-12 20:20:39 <zzop> appamatto: ie, associate an email address with a bitcoin ID?
2145 2010-12-12 20:20:42 <engla> zzop: is it not beside the point, bitcoin is merely the solid foundations of the currency, not more
2146 2010-12-12 20:21:06 <appamatto> zzop, well, some identifier that could be mined like blocks are
2147 2010-12-12 20:21:15 <zzop> engla: I get it.
2148 2010-12-12 20:21:34 <appamatto> but yes, these systems can work together with high assurance because they would all be based on block chains
2149 2010-12-12 20:23:32 <joe_1> satoshi assured us that bitDNS will be a separate network, chain, and software from bitcoin?
2150 2010-12-12 20:23:45 <joe_1> but that work can be done on each chain simultaneously somehow
2151 2010-12-12 20:23:54 <appamatto> joe_1, there are several proposals up in the air
2152 2010-12-12 20:24:02 <appamatto> I don't really understand Satoshi's
2153 2010-12-12 20:24:46 <ArtForz> I think I have an idea of how it would work, still waiting on word-of-god though
2154 2010-12-12 20:24:48 <appamatto> Plus a writing sample has indicated that Satoshi is actually a group of five people working together
2155 2010-12-12 20:25:06 <zzop> appamatto: I knew it :)
2156 2010-12-12 20:25:14 <joe_1> who is he
2157 2010-12-12 20:25:23 <zzop> Someday there will be a movie about this man
2158 2010-12-12 20:25:37 <zzop> This modern shakespeare
2159 2010-12-12 20:25:37 <Lyspooner> joe_1: I am Satoshi's left leg
2160 2010-12-12 20:26:08 <Lyspooner> (the green spaceship)
2161 2010-12-12 20:28:02 <joe_1> the s*** coming out of satoshi's a** has more ingenuity than most of us
2162 2010-12-12 20:28:33 <joe_1> i hate to say it that way
2163 2010-12-12 20:28:35 <zzop> :D
2164 2010-12-12 20:29:04 <zzop> Hey guys I have another question -- what kind of attacks is Bitcoin currently vulnerable to? Has anyone ever tried to claim all the coins by putting some massive cluster on it for example?
2165 2010-12-12 20:29:15 waterfox has joined
2166 2010-12-12 20:29:30 <genjix> i am satoshis right nut
2167 2010-12-12 20:29:36 <BitCoinz> zzop, i too wonder about that
2168 2010-12-12 20:29:43 <ArtForz> it has to be MASSIVE massive
2169 2010-12-12 20:29:51 <Lyspooner> genjix, we work closely together
2170 2010-12-12 20:30:02 <genjix> go away hand!
2171 2010-12-12 20:30:04 <BitCoinz> artforz, have an example?
2172 2010-12-12 20:30:47 <ArtForz> current chain represents about 300 * 10**15 hashes
2173 2010-12-12 20:31:07 <joe_1> zzop: the worst known attack is if you gain enough CPU power you would be able to double-spend. There is no known mechanism to claim coins you never owned at least once before.
2174 2010-12-12 20:31:09 <waterfox> yay, #bitcoin on EFnet
2175 2010-12-12 20:31:30 <ArtForz> joe_1: there is, in a way
2176 2010-12-12 20:31:32 <genjix> waterfox: thats for bootstrapping clients
2177 2010-12-12 20:31:34 <zzop> I'm not sure that I understand the double-spend concept yet...
2178 2010-12-12 20:31:53 <ArtForz> if you take over the blockchain starting "long ago", you can claim all generation since then
2179 2010-12-12 20:32:11 <joe_1> right, yeah
2180 2010-12-12 20:32:23 <cosurgi> for example if you have a working quantum computer :)
2181 2010-12-12 20:32:39 <cosurgi> and solve all possilbe hashes simultaneously :)
2182 2010-12-12 20:32:44 <ArtForz> so if you create a alternate block chain starting at genesis, you'd end up with all bitcoins - 50
2183 2010-12-12 20:32:46 <zzop> Oh. That seems pretty bad. :)
2184 2010-12-12 20:33:10 <ArtForz> I'm not sure if theres a QC attack on SHA
2185 2010-12-12 20:33:23 <cosurgi> first: there's no QC :)
2186 2010-12-12 20:33:34 <joe_1> my uncle works for NSA and he said he'll run a miner on their supercomputer if I write it. But I want to wait until bitcoin reaches a few dollars a coin at least.
2187 2010-12-12 20:33:44 <ArtForz> good luck with that
2188 2010-12-12 20:33:48 <zzop> haha
2189 2010-12-12 20:34:14 <BitCoinz> important work at NSA :P
2190 2010-12-12 20:34:31 <joe_1> yep
2191 2010-12-12 20:34:39 <cosurgi> it won't reach few dollars
2192 2010-12-12 20:34:52 <BitCoinz> guess your uncle has nothing much better to do at work;)
2193 2010-12-12 20:35:04 <joe_1> of course not, it's a government job
2194 2010-12-12 20:35:35 <waterfox> genjix: ?
2195 2010-12-12 20:35:59 <genjix> waterfox: for finding nodes when you first run the client
2196 2010-12-12 20:36:08 <joe_1> just kidding theres a lot of dedicated workers in the government. he's only doing it because it only takes a few seconds to run it...
2197 2010-12-12 20:36:11 <waterfox> genjix: no, that's on some other net
2198 2010-12-12 20:36:18 <ArtForz> 4700 TFlops, being generous thats 1150 Ghash/s or about 11x current network
2199 2010-12-12 20:36:18 <genjix> oh ok
2200 2010-12-12 20:36:27 poker322 has joined
2201 2010-12-12 20:36:32 <poker322> testing
2202 2010-12-12 20:36:41 <waterfox> genjix: that's #bitcoin on irc.lfnet.org
2203 2010-12-12 20:36:48 <cosurgi> hmm. so overhelming network currently is possible.
2204 2010-12-12 20:36:50 <waterfox> genjix: I was talking about irc.efnet.org
2205 2010-12-12 20:36:53 <ArtForz> yep
2206 2010-12-12 20:36:54 <BitCoinz> But hey guys i have an interesting question... How many khash/s could a pc produce?
2207 2010-12-12 20:37:00 <genjix> ok
2208 2010-12-12 20:37:06 <ArtForz> would take about 3 days to overtake the current chain starting at genesis
2209 2010-12-12 20:37:20 <BitCoinz> a home-pc
2210 2010-12-12 20:37:45 <[Noodles]> depends on how many HD5970 fit in
2211 2010-12-12 20:37:52 <ArtForz> depends, somewhere between 500 and 2500000
2212 2010-12-12 20:38:05 <waterfox> I'm at 3300 khash/s
2213 2010-12-12 20:38:07 <BitCoinz> noodles, is that the best one?
2214 2010-12-12 20:38:09 <cosurgi> 4 to 6 kHs, or if you use an ati graphics card: 100 to 200 kHs.
2215 2010-12-12 20:38:16 <waterfox> on my Mac Pro
2216 2010-12-12 20:38:29 <cosurgi> err I talk MHs
2217 2010-12-12 20:38:32 <ArtForz> cosurgi: that sounds like MHs
2218 2010-12-12 20:38:37 <cosurgi> 4 to 6 MHs, or if you use an ati graphics card: 100 to 200 MHs.
2219 2010-12-12 20:38:51 <[Noodles]> BitCoinz: brought to you by ArtForz http://pastebin.com/AvymGnMJ
2220 2010-12-12 20:38:54 <ArtForz> 650MHs on a overclocked HD5970
2221 2010-12-12 20:39:07 <BitCoinz> i have just 3000 lol :D
2222 2010-12-12 20:39:12 <waterfox> How can you mine faster?
2223 2010-12-12 20:39:24 <waterfox> Mine is at "just" 3400 khash/s
2224 2010-12-12 20:39:39 genjix is now known as skksdsd
2225 2010-12-12 20:39:46 <cosurgi> it's all just ram CPU/GPU power. You can't mine faster with your current hardware
2226 2010-12-12 20:39:47 skksdsd is now known as genjix
2227 2010-12-12 20:40:06 <cosurgi> except.... if there are some more compiler optimizations possible
2228 2010-12-12 20:40:08 <ArtForz> yep, and ATI GPUs outclass pretty much everything
2229 2010-12-12 20:40:24 <cosurgi> s/ram/raw
2230 2010-12-12 20:40:54 <joe_1> we were slashdotted again. So.. 0.80/coin by day's end?
2231 2010-12-12 20:41:11 <waterfox> my processor is pretty epic
2232 2010-12-12 20:41:14 <waterfox> cosurgi: ^
2233 2010-12-12 20:41:22 <ArtForz> can't get much lower than 4148 operations/hash without special-purpose hardware
2234 2010-12-12 20:41:26 <BitCoinz> ATI itself or asus with ATI chip?
2235 2010-12-12 20:41:35 <waterfox> 2x2.66 GHz 2-core Intel Xeon
2236 2010-12-12 20:41:38 <waterfox> 5GB RAM
2237 2010-12-12 20:41:43 <cosurgi> why would BTC/USD price increase due to slashdotting? I'd rather except it to drop, because mre people will be selling BTCs
2238 2010-12-12 20:42:01 <cosurgi> BitCoinz: ATI graphics card with OpenCL
2239 2010-12-12 20:42:17 <ArtForz> 24 HD5970, 5 HD5770, 15.75 Ghash/s
2240 2010-12-12 20:42:27 <Kiba> cosurgi: why would it?
2241 2010-12-12 20:42:32 <Kiba> if people expect a slashdotting
2242 2010-12-12 20:42:39 <Kiba> they're going to try buy as much as possible
2243 2010-12-12 20:42:42 <Kiba> before it rise
2244 2010-12-12 20:42:47 <cosurgi> aha.
2245 2010-12-12 20:42:58 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2246 2010-12-12 20:42:59 <ArtForz> soon 36 HD5970 and ~23Gh/s
2247 2010-12-12 20:43:40 <cosurgi> ArtForz: you're making 23GHs/s ?
2248 2010-12-12 20:43:47 <Kiba> 24 GPU
2249 2010-12-12 20:43:48 <Granttt> amd should sponsor bitcoin community for the extra cards they're selling to miners ;)
2250 2010-12-12 20:43:52 <waterfox> Does WikiLeaks even accept BitCash donations?
2251 2010-12-12 20:43:53 <cosurgi> err 15.75 GHs/s ?
2252 2010-12-12 20:43:54 <Kiba> err
2253 2010-12-12 20:43:57 <Kiba> 36
2254 2010-12-12 20:44:04 <ArtForz> yeah
2255 2010-12-12 20:44:07 <Kiba> wikileak rejected bitcoin
2256 2010-12-12 20:44:15 <waterfox> Kiba: how do you get it that high?
2257 2010-12-12 20:44:17 <waterfox> Kiba: why?
2258 2010-12-12 20:44:25 <Kiba> high what?
2259 2010-12-12 20:44:28 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
2260 2010-12-12 20:44:28 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.228,"low":0.2068,"vol":1675,"buy":0.2111,"sell":0.219,"last":0.2275}}
2261 2010-12-12 20:44:34 <waterfox> Kiba: GH
2262 2010-12-12 20:44:35 <genjix> ;;bc,help
2263 2010-12-12 20:44:35 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
2264 2010-12-12 20:44:37 <ArtForz> right now I have 24 5970s running, ordered another 12 but shipping date gets pushed back
2265 2010-12-12 20:44:38 <Kiba> price was already in a rally
2266 2010-12-12 20:44:41 <waterfox> genjix: /msg
2267 2010-12-12 20:44:45 <Kiba> waterfox: I am talking about ArtForz mining rig
2268 2010-12-12 20:44:47 <genjix> ;;bc,bcm
2269 2010-12-12 20:44:48 <gribble> [{"pair": "BCUSD[MoneyBookers]", "ask": 0.0, "bid": 0.14999999999999999, "time": 1292186616}, {"pair": "BCGAU[Pecunix]", "ask": 0.0061999999999999998, "bid": 0.0045999999999999999, "time": 1292186616}, {"pair": "BCUSD[PayPal]", "ask": 0.23999999999999999, "bid": 0.20000000000000001, "time": 1292186616}, {"pair": "BCUSD[LibertyReserve]", "ask": 0.23999999999999999, "bid": 0.20000000000000001, (1 more message)
2270 2010-12-12 20:45:01 <xelister_> ArtForz: are 5970's still a good investition?
2271 2010-12-12 20:45:09 <ArtForz> I doubt it
2272 2010-12-12 20:45:20 <ArtForz> depends on how fast/far difficulty keeps rising
2273 2010-12-12 20:45:22 <xelister_> me too, so why are you ordering them ;)
2274 2010-12-12 20:45:50 <ArtForz> ordered them 2 weeks ago
2275 2010-12-12 20:47:00 <ArtForz> = shortly before mtgox dropped from ~0.27 to ~0.2
2276 2010-12-12 20:47:09 <cosurgi> ArtForz: what if you end up with 80% of world's money. Don't you think it will demotivate other people to use this currency?
2277 2010-12-12 20:47:32 <ArtForz> kidbna unlikely, I'm like 16% of the total network
2278 2010-12-12 20:47:41 <joe_1> well how many coins has artforz's gpu army produced?
2279 2010-12-12 20:47:57 <ArtForz> a bit over 230k
2280 2010-12-12 20:48:04 <xelister_> we should all comment on http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/12/0647203/WikiLeaks-Money-and-Ron-Paul =)
2281 2010-12-12 20:48:04 poker322 has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
2282 2010-12-12 20:48:07 <cosurgi> how many nodes are there running?
2283 2010-12-12 20:48:25 <ArtForz> at least 800 I think
2284 2010-12-12 20:48:29 <joe_1> that's about 80000 USD right?
2285 2010-12-12 20:48:41 <ArtForz> at current prices, it would be
2286 2010-12-12 20:48:57 <joe_1> thats good
2287 2010-12-12 20:49:11 <ArtForz> sold quite a few ~$0.1
2288 2010-12-12 20:49:18 <cosurgi> 230000*0.2=46000 , what I got wrong?
2289 2010-12-12 20:49:22 <joe_1> you could buy maybe 8 grande cappuccinos at starbucks with that
2290 2010-12-12 20:50:11 <BitCoinz> artforz, in how many pc do you have all those ATI's?
2291 2010-12-12 20:50:18 <ArtForz> 9
2292 2010-12-12 20:50:30 <cosurgi> do you run linux?
2293 2010-12-12 20:50:32 <ArtForz> yup
2294 2010-12-12 20:50:38 <cosurgi> good.
2295 2010-12-12 20:50:50 <BitCoinz> is linux better? and why?
2296 2010-12-12 20:51:03 <ArtForz> windows ATI drivers cant handle >2 5970s
2297 2010-12-12 20:51:05 <cosurgi> so if I buy a motherbord with several PCIx16 slots, that's going to work, with all cards put in?
2298 2010-12-12 20:51:13 <ArtForz> not without some more work
2299 2010-12-12 20:51:15 <BitCoinz> i'm not that good at that stuff
2300 2010-12-12 20:51:24 <cosurgi> BitCoinz: I don't know how to use windows, that's why I ask.
2301 2010-12-12 20:51:25 <ArtForz> 5970s fan is side intake
2302 2010-12-12 20:51:32 <ArtForz> = you can't put the cards right next to each other
2303 2010-12-12 20:51:40 <ArtForz> 5 4x5970, 1 2x5970+2x5770, 2 5970+5770, 1 2x5770
2304 2010-12-12 20:51:46 <BitCoinz> well, i don't know anything about linux:)
2305 2010-12-12 20:52:17 <cosurgi> ok\
2306 2010-12-12 20:52:27 <cosurgi> I just ordered my first ATI card.
2307 2010-12-12 20:52:40 <cosurgi> if it earns enough money to buy a scond card - I'll buy it.
2308 2010-12-12 20:52:56 <cosurgi> That means - I'll sell BTC to get another card.
2309 2010-12-12 20:53:22 <ArtForz> imo buying a card still makes sense if you take into account a) using it for gaming later or b) reselling it in a few months at ~2/3 retail
2310 2010-12-12 20:53:25 <BitCoinz> artforz, would it be easy to install linux?
2311 2010-12-12 20:53:34 <ArtForz> easy? no, not really
2312 2010-12-12 20:53:46 <Kiba> yes
2313 2010-12-12 20:53:47 <xelister_> BitCoinz: installing ubuntu is rather triviall
2314 2010-12-12 20:53:54 <ArtForz> mucking with aticonfig to make it work with multiple cards... not so much
2315 2010-12-12 20:54:03 <xelister_> yes, aticonfig sucks cocks in hell
2316 2010-12-12 20:54:14 xelister_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2317 2010-12-12 20:54:21 <ArtForz> lol
2318 2010-12-12 20:54:29 <cosurgi> but you don't need X at all. Just text consoles, and remote management.
2319 2010-12-12 20:54:34 xelister has joined
2320 2010-12-12 20:54:35 <BitCoinz> what is ubuntu?
2321 2010-12-12 20:54:37 <ArtForz> you do need X
2322 2010-12-12 20:54:42 <cosurgi> oh.
2323 2010-12-12 20:54:45 <BitCoinz> xelister, wb;)
2324 2010-12-12 20:54:51 <UukGoblin> looks like at one of my powercycles when testing, my bitcoin is stuck at block 92229 and doesn't want to download more
2325 2010-12-12 20:55:01 <ArtForz> ATIs OpenCL impl runs through X
2326 2010-12-12 20:55:01 <xelister> BitCoinz: ubuntu is easiest / most popular linux
2327 2010-12-12 20:55:03 <genjix> BitCoinz: was that a joke?
2328 2010-12-12 20:55:05 <genjix> :p
2329 2010-12-12 20:55:09 <cosurgi> ArtForz: that's strange. Wouldn't it be enough to just modrpobe ati module, and use OpenCL with it?
2330 2010-12-12 20:55:14 <ArtForz> no
2331 2010-12-12 20:55:32 <cosurgi> ok, I suppose that's one part of "aticonfig sucks cocks in hell"
2332 2010-12-12 20:55:33 <xelister> cosurgi: would be, if entire Ati software department would not be too bussy sucking cocks in hell
2333 2010-12-12 20:55:48 <cosurgi> but I don't need to connect an LCD screen to it. I suppose
2334 2010-12-12 20:55:48 <BitCoinz> genjix, i wouldn't dare to joke about anyone here
2335 2010-12-12 20:55:52 * xelister is glad that is catching on
2336 2010-12-12 20:56:09 <ArtForz> nope, my miners are working fine headless
2337 2010-12-12 20:56:16 <genjix> BitCoinz: yes linux is the best. Try Ubuntu. the forums are really helpful for asking questions and there's a channel on here too #ubuntu
2338 2010-12-12 20:56:19 <cosurgi> good :)
2339 2010-12-12 20:56:23 <ArtForz> I also only have a minimal X running
2340 2010-12-12 20:56:52 <genjix> BitCoinz: but at first things are different so be prepared for some adversity :)
2341 2010-12-12 20:57:15 <ArtForz> = no desktop environment at all on my miners, just plain X (and no X apps...)
2342 2010-12-12 20:57:25 <Lyspooner> what's wrong with the 6850 and 6870 for mining bitcoins?
2343 2010-12-12 20:58:03 <Lyspooner> and what does it mean to be "overclocked"
2344 2010-12-12 20:58:03 <ArtForz> 6850 and 6870 need SDK2.2, which eats 100% cpu on one core per GPU and completely sucks for multiGPU
2345 2010-12-12 20:58:08 <cosurgi> ok. time to so something else. bye.
2346 2010-12-12 20:58:10 * cosurgi goes idle
2347 2010-12-12 20:58:31 <ArtForz> overclocked = running higher clock speeds than spec
2348 2010-12-12 20:58:32 <xelister> sdk 2.2 takes the legendary crappines of ati drivers to a next level
2349 2010-12-12 20:58:51 <xelister> which is a darwin record nominate
2350 2010-12-12 20:58:52 <Kiba> Most Online Today: 95
2351 2010-12-12 20:58:53 <BitCoinz> i have windows 7.. possible to run more ati-cards on it?
2352 2010-12-12 20:58:58 <xelister> s/darwin/guiness
2353 2010-12-12 20:59:04 <ArtForz> possible? yes. easy? no.
2354 2010-12-12 20:59:19 <xelister> BitCoinz: for mining just use a windows, like a white person
2355 2010-12-12 20:59:23 Lysacor has joined
2356 2010-12-12 20:59:26 <xelister> (easy, its just a joke ;)
2357 2010-12-12 20:59:37 <xelister> wait what.
2358 2010-12-12 20:59:41 <xelister> *use linux
2359 2010-12-12 20:59:46 * xelister should not multitask and irc
2360 2010-12-12 20:59:54 <BitCoinz> LOL
2361 2010-12-12 21:00:08 <ArtForz> for windows you need a DVI/VGA dummy plug for the 2nd card, or just plug a screen into it
2362 2010-12-12 21:00:11 <xelister> all will be easier on linux
2363 2010-12-12 21:00:35 <ArtForz> otherwise the driver helpfully disables that "unused" card for you
2364 2010-12-12 21:00:54 <BitCoinz> ah okay.. thanks
2365 2010-12-12 21:00:58 <xelister> Windows. Think green. Fag a tree.
2366 2010-12-12 21:01:07 <xelister> or hug, whatever
2367 2010-12-12 21:01:29 <xelister> BitCoinz: btw see pm in case of problems
2368 2010-12-12 21:01:38 <ArtForz> and if you think disabling crossfire on linux is hard, try in on windows with 5970s...
2369 2010-12-12 21:01:49 <xelister> ArtForz: it's even harder on windows? wow.
2370 2010-12-12 21:01:51 <BitCoinz> xelister, pm? private message?
2371 2010-12-12 21:02:01 <xelister> BitCoinz: yeah I send you pm
2372 2010-12-12 21:02:02 <ArtForz> afaict it's impossible
2373 2010-12-12 21:02:05 <xelister> private message
2374 2010-12-12 21:02:19 <ArtForz> you can only disable xfire if you have at least 2 5970s
2375 2010-12-12 21:02:20 <joe_1> how is the bitcoin efnet channel doing?
2376 2010-12-12 21:02:31 <ArtForz> and then you can only disable the xfire between CARDS
2377 2010-12-12 21:02:47 <xelister> ArtForz: at least Ati's software sucks equally, or even less on Linux, compared to windows
2378 2010-12-12 21:02:53 <ArtForz> = no way to use the 2nd GPU on each card for OpenCL
2379 2010-12-12 21:03:04 <xelister> it's cool that linux can nowdays claim better hw compatibility
2380 2010-12-12 21:03:18 <Kiba> my hand are cooooooooooold
2381 2010-12-12 21:03:21 <Kiba> snowing outside
2382 2010-12-12 21:03:33 <xelister> Kiba: 5970's eqhause is good for that
2383 2010-12-12 21:03:40 <xelister> I used to warm feet at it
2384 2010-12-12 21:03:54 <ArtForz> I *think* there might be a way to make it work, but that involves using the ADL API calls to mess with the xfire config
2385 2010-12-12 21:04:15 <joe_1> when bitcoin catches on and we are all rich, we should try to stay in contact with each other and meet up at some point
2386 2010-12-12 21:04:19 redengin has joined
2387 2010-12-12 21:05:07 <xelister> BitCoinz: can you respond to the private message? if not, then do you use gmail (xmpp, jabber chat) or something like that? for some fee I could help you set it all up in like an hour (plus waiting) instead of hours-days of disking around with all configs (especially since you didnt used linux before)
2388 2010-12-12 21:05:12 <UukGoblin> ;estimate
2389 2010-12-12 21:05:14 <bitbot> UukGoblin: LastDiff(2d 22:44:02 ago) ExpBlocks(424) ActualBlocks(576) TrgNewDiffDate(2010/12/23 22:20:02 GMT) EstNewDiffDate(2010/12/20 05:54:09 GMT) EstNewDiff(4200.09842179)
2390 2010-12-12 21:05:32 <Kiba> joe_1: that is assuming that each of us hoard some money
2391 2010-12-12 21:05:41 <xelister> *dicking
2392 2010-12-12 21:05:42 <UukGoblin> 4200? wha?
2393 2010-12-12 21:05:46 <ArtForz> looks like bitbot is still b0rked
2394 2010-12-12 21:06:45 <ArtForz> note the weird "block found in last X" on nullvoid statistix
2395 2010-12-12 21:07:24 <UukGoblin> ;blocks
2396 2010-12-12 21:07:25 <bitbot> UukGoblin: CurrentBlockCount( 89,280 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 12,252.0347115600 ) NextDifficultyAt( 90,720 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 1,440 blocks )
2397 2010-12-12 21:07:33 <UukGoblin> nope, the count is very wrong.
2398 2010-12-12 21:07:40 <BitCoinz> sorry
2399 2010-12-12 21:07:48 <ArtForz> ;;bc,stats
2400 2010-12-12 21:07:50 <BitCoinz> i was busy
2401 2010-12-12 21:07:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97246 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1537 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 38 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13848.04449531
2402 2010-12-12 21:07:52 <UukGoblin> though the difficulty looks right...
2403 2010-12-12 21:08:07 <UukGoblin> ah, that's better, thanks
2404 2010-12-12 21:08:40 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2405 2010-12-12 21:10:11 <BitCoinz> xelister, i'm unable to pm you back
2406 2010-12-12 21:11:58 <xelister> BitCoinz: do you have jabber or gmail (gtalk) (or overall xmpp) ? or skype?
2407 2010-12-12 21:12:00 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
2408 2010-12-12 21:12:00 Granttt has joined
2409 2010-12-12 21:13:05 <KwukDuck> is somebody keeping statistics on amount of users?
2410 2010-12-12 21:13:11 <BitCoinz> xelister, no sorry i don't
2411 2010-12-12 21:15:04 <xelister> BitCoinz: do you use any other chat system... what do you use for instant messaging?
2412 2010-12-12 21:15:40 <Lyspooner> KwukDuck: this is the sourceforge download stats page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/stats/timeline
2413 2010-12-12 21:16:23 <xelister> BitCoinz: you can reigster your nick, and then you will be able to respond to PM on irc. Just think of a password, and type in command: /msg nickserv register PASSWORD email@address.com replacing this 2 variables and when nick is registered you can PM people. ask #freenet about how to auto-identify on later connections to IRC to be always identified
2414 2010-12-12 21:16:38 <xelister> ermm wait
2415 2010-12-12 21:16:41 <xelister> ask #freenode
2416 2010-12-12 21:19:17 Grantt has joined
2417 2010-12-12 21:19:59 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 450
2418 2010-12-12 21:19:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 450 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 years, 36 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes, and 14 seconds
2419 2010-12-12 21:20:54 <xelister> cosurgi: are you cpu mining
2420 2010-12-12 21:21:24 <cosurgi> not with this one. It's just a border node, my only PC that has :8333 open to outisde.
2421 2010-12-12 21:22:43 <cosurgi> but, I hope that if I wanted to - I could join the mining pool without losing what this slow one has alreaddy calculated?
2422 2010-12-12 21:23:28 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2423 2010-12-12 21:23:32 Grantt is now known as Granttt
2424 2010-12-12 21:23:35 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
2425 2010-12-12 21:23:35 Granttt has joined
2426 2010-12-12 21:26:19 <BitCoinz> i am registered nnow
2427 2010-12-12 21:26:52 dissected has joined
2428 2010-12-12 21:27:27 <BitCoinz> sorry
2429 2010-12-12 21:28:41 <nanotube> cosurgi: there's no such thing as "losing what you already calculated".
2430 2010-12-12 21:29:13 <nanotube> either you generated a block, in which case, good for you... or you didn't, and all the work you have done is of no value or consequence.
2431 2010-12-12 21:30:14 <eureka^> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/eknek/gawker_media_hacked_database_online_accounts_and/
2432 2010-12-12 21:30:55 <waterfox> nanotube: how can you speed up mining?
2433 2010-12-12 21:31:01 slush_cz1 has joined
2434 2010-12-12 21:31:56 <Kiba> guys...want to be in a bitcoin wallpaper! Bid in Kiba's Art Thread!
2435 2010-12-12 21:32:02 <Kiba> err
2436 2010-12-12 21:32:18 <Kiba> guys...want to be in a bitcoin wallpaper? Bid in Kiba's Art Thread!
2437 2010-12-12 21:32:38 <zygf> so you only get something for generating this mythical block that takes on average 3+ years on a 1GHz processor?
2438 2010-12-12 21:32:50 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1929.msg28537#msg28537
2439 2010-12-12 21:32:54 <bitbot> Kiba's Art Thread : kiba: For my next art project, I will auction "character" space. The image will depict Haruka Nakamoto, the genderbended version of the inventor who invent bitcoin, talking with 3 bitcoiners(Who still have no idea) in a New York cafe after a bitcoin conference. This will be a wallpaper. It will be my first entirely digital artwork, no drawi...
2440 2010-12-12 21:34:52 <waterfox> Kiba: at least you have a way to get BTC
2441 2010-12-12 21:34:54 <waterfox> I don't
2442 2010-12-12 21:35:14 daveandr has joined
2443 2010-12-12 21:35:42 <MT`AwAy> waterfox: what's your bitcoin address ?
2444 2010-12-12 21:36:11 <Kiba> I have no skillz at the beginning of the art thread
2445 2010-12-12 21:36:13 <Kiba> now, I do!
2446 2010-12-12 21:36:33 <waterfox> MT`AwAy: 14g4wo58f7YbNGWtbm8vkWQgK2KiqRGwqz
2447 2010-12-12 21:36:35 <waterfox> why?
2448 2010-12-12 21:36:44 <MT`AwAy> waterfox: b777ebeca0015b042919531f8eefbe0886f7d70234d34eafc7048ef71c6e559f
2449 2010-12-12 21:36:53 <Kiba> because we benefit from you using and strenghtening the bitcoin economy
2450 2010-12-12 21:37:44 <waterfox> MT`AwAy: is that even an actual address?
2451 2010-12-12 21:37:54 <MT`AwAy> waterfox: no, it's a transaction hash
2452 2010-12-12 21:38:39 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/b777ebeca0015b042919531f8eefbe0886f7d70234d34eafc7048ef71c6e559f
2453 2010-12-12 21:39:47 <MT`AwAy> waterfox: this means you got coins you can spend now
2454 2010-12-12 21:40:29 <MT`AwAy> (I gave you ~$2 worth of coins for you to play with)
2455 2010-12-12 21:41:16 <MT`AwAy> now buy some of Kiba 's art to see how he's doing ;)
2456 2010-12-12 21:43:35 <MT`AwAy> (and if you wonder why a complete stranger would give you 10 BTC out of the blue, it's because I'm in a good mood, finally managed to get what I was working on working)
2457 2010-12-12 21:44:08 CyanDynamo has joined
2458 2010-12-12 21:51:35 genjix has left ()
2459 2010-12-12 21:52:29 Dashkal has joined
2460 2010-12-12 21:54:58 <Kiba> so this is raw capitalism, eh.
2461 2010-12-12 21:55:19 <Kiba> not headed by any one international megacorporation
2462 2010-12-12 21:56:34 <gavinandresen> Bitcoin is a Registered Trademark of Nakamoto Incorporated. Part of the Satoshi family of companies.
2463 2010-12-12 21:56:48 <gavinandresen> :-)
2464 2010-12-12 21:57:28 Lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2465 2010-12-12 21:58:07 <engla> Who is sending coins in so strange amounts? 50.00964047 in trans 7bf9c3cabf359733dd6933bb5582dd0da64195c42319f0a8621704b7a8646443
2466 2010-12-12 21:58:13 <zygf> wait, using the word "bitcoin" opens you up for a trademark infringement lawsuit? :P
2467 2010-12-12 21:58:44 <gavinandresen> zygf: Yes, the Internet Police will throw you in Virtual Jail.
2468 2010-12-12 21:58:49 <theymos> engla: It's someone who received odd coins from the pool.
2469 2010-12-12 21:59:28 <engla> hm
2470 2010-12-12 21:59:52 Grantt has joined
2471 2010-12-12 22:00:12 <theymos> You can see that he just threw the sub-cent change away. This is why the pool should round to 0.01.
2472 2010-12-12 22:00:30 BitCoinz has quit ()
2473 2010-12-12 22:01:34 chaord has joined
2474 2010-12-12 22:01:44 <engla> ah I understand
2475 2010-12-12 22:02:41 <MT`AwAy> and whoever generated the block inherited some sub-cent amount
2476 2010-12-12 22:02:48 <MT`AwAy> on top of his 50 btc
2477 2010-12-12 22:03:47 <theymos> Yeah. The sub-cent portions will probably float around for years before anyone gets a cent out of them.
2478 2010-12-12 22:04:23 <MT`AwAy> especially the 0.00000044
2479 2010-12-12 22:04:24 <MT`AwAy> :D
2480 2010-12-12 22:04:25 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2481 2010-12-12 22:04:58 Grantt is now known as Granttt
2482 2010-12-12 22:05:00 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
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2484 2010-12-12 22:05:34 <ArtForz> yeah, rounding to 0.01 sounds like a good idea
2485 2010-12-12 22:06:38 <Kiba> I can't connect to bitcoin pool
2486 2010-12-12 22:06:50 <theymos> Me neither.
2487 2010-12-12 22:07:05 <altamic> gavin thanks for your bitcoin tools
2488 2010-12-12 22:07:19 <altamic> they are pretty useful
2489 2010-12-12 22:07:42 <Kiba> jed had not replied to my email yet
2490 2010-12-12 22:07:47 <Kiba> and mybitcoin is the only thing that works
2491 2010-12-12 22:08:25 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: works?
2492 2010-12-12 22:08:41 <Kiba> payment processing
2493 2010-12-12 22:08:48 <MT`AwAy> oh
2494 2010-12-12 22:09:01 <MT`AwAy> I do payment processing myself on my site :p
2495 2010-12-12 22:09:08 <Kiba> I don't have a VPS
2496 2010-12-12 22:10:11 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: want one?
2497 2010-12-12 22:11:24 <Kiba> don't need one
2498 2010-12-12 22:12:19 <Dashkal> Is there a file I can copy to a second machine when the existing blocks are downloaded for the first time? Or does each machine have to do that on its own?
2499 2010-12-12 22:12:43 <[Noodles]> blk***.dat
2500 2010-12-12 22:13:12 <[Noodles]> 2 files, in the same folder as your wallet
2501 2010-12-12 22:13:20 <Dashkal> Oh perfect. danke
2502 2010-12-12 22:13:30 <[Noodles]> keine ursache ^.^
2503 2010-12-12 22:18:05 <KwukDuck> whats wrong with the pool?
2504 2010-12-12 22:19:37 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2505 2010-12-12 22:21:28 <engla> I suppose this happens often, but for example the two latest blocks have their timestamps in reverse order (3 min diff)
2506 2010-12-12 22:23:32 acous has joined
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2508 2010-12-12 22:23:32 acous has joined
2509 2010-12-12 22:24:32 <theymos> That's normal. Someone's clock is off.
2510 2010-12-12 22:32:06 akem has joined
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2512 2010-12-12 22:32:07 akem has joined
2513 2010-12-12 22:34:57 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
2514 2010-12-12 22:35:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97258 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1525 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13888.79577020
2515 2010-12-12 22:35:11 <anarchyx> O_o
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2536 2010-12-12 22:52:17 <Kiba> yay
2537 2010-12-12 22:52:24 <Kiba> somebody sent me another 50 BTC
2538 2010-12-12 22:54:10 <appamatto> Kiba, woot, donations?
2539 2010-12-12 22:55:01 <Kiba> yeah!
2540 2010-12-12 22:55:06 <Kiba> I think it's my art donation address
2541 2010-12-12 22:55:10 jb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2542 2010-12-12 22:55:43 dissected has joined
2543 2010-12-12 22:55:49 <dissected> hello
2544 2010-12-12 22:56:02 <dissected> anyone have success running the remote miner cuda app in wine?
2545 2010-12-12 22:56:27 <MT`AwAy> yay
2546 2010-12-12 22:56:35 <MT`AwAy> my wallet.db file got bitcoin addresses now!
2547 2010-12-12 22:56:50 <MT`AwAy> 31kB with 100 bitcoin addresses
2548 2010-12-12 22:58:29 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
2549 2010-12-12 22:58:40 darrob has joined
2550 2010-12-12 22:59:17 <appamatto> Seeing some new faces in the channel
2551 2010-12-12 23:00:35 <appamatto> dissected, sorry, only done cuda mining on Windows
2552 2010-12-12 23:00:55 <MT`AwAy> https://bitcoin.in/forum/index.php/topic,6.msg33.html#msg33
2553 2010-12-12 23:00:56 <MT`AwAy> :p
2554 2010-12-12 23:03:32 <ArtForz> why do you need Cpp ?
2555 2010-12-12 23:03:49 <appamatto> gratz MT
2556 2010-12-12 23:04:27 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: because I couldn't find any C lib with a working ECC implementation that would not come with some weird license
2557 2010-12-12 23:05:09 <MT`AwAy> the only two public domain libs with an ECC implementation I know of are libtomcrypt (the ECC implementation is limited and won't work for my case) and crypto++ (which I use now, until I can fix libtomcrypt's ecc implementation)
2558 2010-12-12 23:05:51 <Kiba> new high today: 98
2559 2010-12-12 23:06:15 <ArtForz> probably easier to Cify cryptopp
2560 2010-12-12 23:07:04 <MT`AwAy> Cify ?
2561 2010-12-12 23:07:18 <ArtForz> convert to C
2562 2010-12-12 23:07:20 <Kiba> hmm
2563 2010-12-12 23:07:27 <Kiba> twitter is like a promotion machine for bitcoin
2564 2010-12-12 23:08:07 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I had a look at crypto++ and it's full of C++ template cross-referencing each other with class extending other classes in weird ways
2565 2010-12-12 23:08:20 <ArtForz> ouch
2566 2010-12-12 23:08:24 <MT`AwAy> I couldn't locate the code that actually multiply a elliptic curve dot
2567 2010-12-12 23:08:40 <ArtForz> wow. that's pretty bad
2568 2010-12-12 23:09:04 <MT`AwAy> so for now I only took the part of cryptopp that is fips compliant (limits the amount of inserted code quite a bit)
2569 2010-12-12 23:09:29 <MT`AwAy> I tried to keep smaller subset of the code but it'd just keep complaining some file/symbol was missing
2570 2010-12-12 23:09:54 <MT`AwAy> so for now I'll use it as is to not be blocked, and will think of an alternative later
2571 2010-12-12 23:10:12 <nanotube> out of curiosity... could a wallet be made to use say, rsa keys, rather than ecdsa, transparently to the rest of the network? as in... all you need to do is use a ripemd hash of the rsa pubkey...
2572 2010-12-12 23:10:31 <ArtForz> errr... no
2573 2010-12-12 23:10:52 <nanotube> ah heh, i guess all the verification of txns will die
2574 2010-12-12 23:10:55 comboy_ has joined
2575 2010-12-12 23:10:58 <nanotube> by other clients
2576 2010-12-12 23:11:04 <ArtForz> yep
2577 2010-12-12 23:11:48 * nanotube realizes he should have thought for 3 more seconds before asking the question. :)
2578 2010-12-12 23:11:53 <MT`AwAy> in my wallet you'll optionally be able to optionally have your private keys password-protected (which means you'll have to put your password to create a transaction)
2579 2010-12-12 23:12:11 <MT`AwAy> mh
2580 2010-12-12 23:12:17 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: nice - there was a feature request (several, in fact) for that on the forums
2581 2010-12-12 23:12:18 * MT`AwAy hasn't slept at all, it's 8:11 am
2582 2010-12-12 23:13:33 nelisky has joined
2583 2010-12-12 23:13:43 <slush_cz1> MT`AwAy: Wallet encryption is great feature. I was one of them who asking for it.
2584 2010-12-12 23:14:37 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz1: it's mainly because my wallet component should be usable for mobiles too (I don't know how crypto++ is portable, but I intend to get rid of it asap)
2585 2010-12-12 23:16:07 <comboy_> I have some question regarding understaning how it works
2586 2010-12-12 23:17:21 <comboy_> it is p2p, so let's say the internet splits, we have 2 separate networks of bitcoin clients, now let's say I spend 50 bitcoins on 1 network sending them to A, and on the second network sending them to B, what happens?
2587 2010-12-12 23:17:38 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz1: encryption is probably going to be rijndael256 (the block size matches exactly the private key size => no wasted space because of padding). The password will be salted with the public key to make it harder to attack
2588 2010-12-12 23:18:01 <MT`AwAy> comboy_: when the networks are merged back, one of the transaction disappears
2589 2010-12-12 23:18:03 <cosurgi> comboy_: when the networks join back, the one with more CPU power will win.
2590 2010-12-12 23:18:04 <theymos> comboy_: When the networks combine, the transaction in the longer block chain will win.
2591 2010-12-12 23:18:28 <comboy_> that sounds reasonable, thanks
2592 2010-12-12 23:18:47 <cosurgi> hah! my answer was shortest. Best information to size ratio.
2593 2010-12-12 23:18:56 <slush_cz1> MT`AwAy: Sounds well. I'm looking forward...
2594 2010-12-12 23:18:56 <comboy_> :))
2595 2010-12-12 23:19:23 <comboy_> I was highly sceptical but it really seems to be well designed
2596 2010-12-12 23:19:39 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz1: also my wallet is smaller than bitcoin's one because I do not store 247 bytes of useless data per bitcoin address
2597 2010-12-12 23:20:11 <MT`AwAy> (original bitcoin client will store curve parameters with each private key, but the curve parameters are fixed)
2598 2010-12-12 23:21:05 <davex__> MT`AwAy, is qbitcoin going to be open sourced?
2599 2010-12-12 23:21:21 <MT`AwAy> davex__: yes
2600 2010-12-12 23:21:40 <engla> will it be portable? :-)
2601 2010-12-12 23:21:48 <MT`AwAy> engla: it uses Qt
2602 2010-12-12 23:21:57 <davex__> MT`AwAy, and i'm assuming it's not going to depend on boost?
2603 2010-12-12 23:22:02 <Kiba> are you going to sell it, MT`AwAy?
2604 2010-12-12 23:22:03 <MT`AwAy> davex__: no boost
2605 2010-12-12 23:22:07 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: no
2606 2010-12-12 23:22:13 <MT`AwAy> (but I accept donations)
2607 2010-12-12 23:22:14 sgornick has joined
2608 2010-12-12 23:22:15 <engla> I was asking about the endianness assumptions of bitcoin before
2609 2010-12-12 23:22:27 <ArtForz> so... whats the problem with using a BSD-licensed ECDSA lib?
2610 2010-12-12 23:22:56 <MT`AwAy> engla: my client will be endian-neutral (should work fine on any kind of hardware, including PPC/ARM/etc)
2611 2010-12-12 23:23:09 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: url?
2612 2010-12-12 23:23:57 <ArtForz> just rying to remember what I based mine off of
2613 2010-12-12 23:24:39 <engla> MT`AwAy: nice, great work btw
2614 2010-12-12 23:24:49 <MT`AwAy> engla: I'm far from finished
2615 2010-12-12 23:24:56 <MT`AwAy> still ~1 month until first alpha release
2616 2010-12-12 23:25:15 <MT`AwAy> the wallet backend is almost done for now, I'll be able to play with the rest of the code
2617 2010-12-12 23:25:19 <xelister> MT`AwAy: what language?
2618 2010-12-12 23:25:25 <Kiba> python?
2619 2010-12-12 23:25:27 <MT`AwAy> xelister: wallet backend in C, rest in C++
2620 2010-12-12 23:25:34 <xelister> MT`AwAy: java is nice, since it appears to after all be indeed portable
2621 2010-12-12 23:25:47 <xelister> oh wait you mean client impl
2622 2010-12-12 23:25:56 <MT`AwAy> xelister: I don't like Oracle
2623 2010-12-12 23:26:00 <xelister> well a java based would be nice
2624 2010-12-12 23:26:12 <xelister> who says oracle?
2625 2010-12-12 23:26:49 <MT`AwAy> you, you spoke about Oracle Javaâ¢
2626 2010-12-12 23:27:00 <Kiba> Oracle, that bastard company
2627 2010-12-12 23:27:10 <xelister> make it work with openJDK
2628 2010-12-12 23:27:40 <davex__> MT`AwAy, is there a git repository yet?
2629 2010-12-12 23:27:44 <MT`AwAy> xelister: you got 5 minutes to teach me java, then I'll go to sleep because I spent almost 48 hours trying to solve my ECC problem
2630 2010-12-12 23:27:59 <MT`AwAy> davex__: it's on SVN, and I'll open anonymous access once it's ready for alpha release
2631 2010-12-12 23:28:02 <xelister> MT`AwAy: look at diablo's miner
2632 2010-12-12 23:28:12 <xelister> its in java
2633 2010-12-12 23:28:18 <MT`AwAy> xelister: does it include a gui ?
2634 2010-12-12 23:28:33 <zygf> java in 2 steps: 1. allocate lots of short lived objects, 2. claim it doesn't affect performance or memory use :P
2635 2010-12-12 23:29:50 <xelister> MT`AwAy: no, its just a miner
2636 2010-12-12 23:30:32 <xelister> zygf: diablo's miner is more efficient then the python miner, and just 2% slower then C miner by ArtForz, but that is only because it uses other CL gpu kernel, it could be easly changed and then
2637 2010-12-12 23:30:42 <xelister> this java miner would be as fast as best miner in C
2638 2010-12-12 23:30:54 <xelister> which is no surprise, anyway 99.99% of time is spent in the GPU
2639 2010-12-12 23:30:54 <MT`AwAy> xelister: and tell me, is the gfx card also running java code ?
2640 2010-12-12 23:31:14 <xelister> on all miners, the gfx card runs, of course, program written in OpenCL language
2641 2010-12-12 23:31:31 <MT`AwAy> I think Oracle could have released an opencl java vm :D
2642 2010-12-12 23:32:04 <xelister> that would be probably possible, although GPUs are not good for general programming, only for mass processing of similar streams stuff
2643 2010-12-12 23:32:19 <zygf> could a miner be written in GLSL?
2644 2010-12-12 23:32:21 <MT`AwAy> anyway java GUI usually doesn't look that good, while Qt allows native-looking UI on most environments
2645 2010-12-12 23:32:56 <MT`AwAy> and if you want a java bitcoin client, I'll let you put a boonty or code it yourself :)
2646 2010-12-12 23:32:58 <davex__> nah, swt looks native
2647 2010-12-12 23:32:59 <xelister> zygf: why? OpenCL in compliled into the needed native instructions for given GPU. And indeed the miners do achive the theoretical maximum possible performance (from clock time)
2648 2010-12-12 23:33:21 <zygf> because I have a gf7 :P
2649 2010-12-12 23:33:35 <xelister> MT`AwAy: nah. I was just saying, if you do it, it would be cooler to have totally portable (easly) implementation
2650 2010-12-12 23:34:03 <MT`AwAy> xelister: Qt is easy to port, no change required to the code, no #ifdef, just compile
2651 2010-12-12 23:34:24 <xelister> is it crosscompilable?
2652 2010-12-12 23:34:31 <davex__> I think the main reason you'd want a java library is because android apps could use it
2653 2010-12-12 23:34:35 <xelister> what about libssl, libdb or other DB lib, and other shit ;)
2654 2010-12-12 23:34:50 <MT`AwAy> yep (except for crappy mac, haven't managed to build a mac gcc on my linux)
2655 2010-12-12 23:35:02 <MT`AwAy> xelister: I don't use libdb nor libssl
2656 2010-12-12 23:35:09 <xelister> MT`AwAy: ok, is it crosscompilable without dicking with it for long time
2657 2010-12-12 23:35:16 <xelister> then how you implement DB and SSL layer
2658 2010-12-12 23:35:23 <MT`AwAy> db is via sqlite (portable)
2659 2010-12-12 23:35:35 <MT`AwAy> ssl is optional for rpc (if enabled, I leave the job to Qt)
2660 2010-12-12 23:35:58 <MT`AwAy> crypto is via libtomcrypt (portable)
2661 2010-12-12 23:36:19 <MT`AwAy> (and temporarly, ECC is via crypto++, but I plan to get rid of that once I can)
2662 2010-12-12 23:36:34 <uberjar> jruby-openssl, and sqlite ftw
2663 2010-12-12 23:36:38 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2664 2010-12-12 23:36:42 <uberjar> bouncycastle
2665 2010-12-12 23:36:57 <MT`AwAy> /tmp/wallet.db: SQLite 3.x database
2666 2010-12-12 23:37:36 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2667 2010-12-12 23:37:55 <davex__> MT`AwAy, would be nice if wallet and transactions are in a separate shared library
2668 2010-12-12 23:38:18 uberjar has quit (Quit: time to make fishsticks)
2669 2010-12-12 23:38:39 <davex__> MT`AwAy, from UI
2670 2010-12-12 23:38:45 <MT`AwAy> davex__: it's in a separate process
2671 2010-12-12 23:38:53 <MT`AwAy> (for wallet)
2672 2010-12-12 23:39:19 <MT`AwAy> transactions are in the same process (in a separate "library", it's a static lib I call engine.a)
2673 2010-12-12 23:39:35 <davex__> ok
2674 2010-12-12 23:40:19 <MT`AwAy> it also includes some useful code like converting a pubkey to a bitcoin addr, checking bitcoin addr validity, etc
2675 2010-12-12 23:42:54 <zygf> meh, no integer ops on opengl 2.1 cards and earlier
2676 2010-12-12 23:46:59 <MT`AwAy> ok anyway I'll try to sleep a bit now
2677 2010-12-12 23:56:25 <davux> it would be very interesting to be able to get a graph of the way a set of bitcoins went
2678 2010-12-12 23:56:47 <davux> colored lines,one per coin
2679 2010-12-12 23:57:02 <davux> passing by spots that are addresses
2680 2010-12-12 23:57:08 akem has joined
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2682 2010-12-12 23:57:08 akem has joined
2683 2010-12-12 23:57:19 <theymos> Coins aren't real. Once coins have been combined, they are indistinguishable.
2684 2010-12-12 23:57:47 <davux> so they're like glued together?
2685 2010-12-12 23:57:50 <nanotube> bah, next thing you'll be telling me that santa claus and unicorns aren't real, too eh? killjoy! :P hehe
2686 2010-12-12 23:58:04 <davux> or equal to each other, no matter their respective previous owners?
2687 2010-12-12 23:58:22 <ArtForz> so ? continue graphing the inputs creating that coin ;)
2688 2010-12-12 23:58:30 <ArtForz> should make some nice trees
2689 2010-12-12 23:58:33 <noagendamarket> coins are just transaction records
2690 2010-12-12 23:58:38 <ArtForz> yes