1 2010-12-15 00:00:21 <appamatto> Sure
2 2010-12-15 00:00:25 <appamatto> The code is pretty simple
3 2010-12-15 00:00:54 <appamatto> Have any questions?
4 2010-12-15 00:01:02 <nanotube> ByteCoin: i'll have to think about it... but i'm still not buying any profitability for the moment. :)
5 2010-12-15 00:01:10 <ByteCoin> Yeah. Will have... thinking...
6 2010-12-15 00:01:25 <ByteCoin> nanotube: Thanks for your consideration.
7 2010-12-15 00:01:46 <nanotube> ByteCoin: so... question 1: do you accept that before the difficulty changes, it is not profitable
8 2010-12-15 00:02:02 <ByteCoin> nanotube: Ummm.....
9 2010-12-15 00:02:07 <ByteCoin> thinking....
10 2010-12-15 00:02:12 <appamatto> I think that is true for sure
11 2010-12-15 00:02:44 * nanotube plays jeopardy music in his head... :)
12 2010-12-15 00:02:56 <Lyspooner> isn't bytecoin's strategy independent of difficulty?
13 2010-12-15 00:03:13 <ByteCoin> I think it's likely you would have to run it unprofitably for a period so that the difficulty goes down.
14 2010-12-15 00:03:26 <da2ce7> http://domainchain.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitname
15 2010-12-15 00:03:32 <cosurgi> wow.
16 2010-12-15 00:03:35 <cosurgi> it compiled:
17 2010-12-15 00:03:35 <da2ce7> using a wiki now.
18 2010-12-15 00:03:43 <nanotube> ByteCoin: ok, in that case... let's say cartel starts operation at difficulty X. it is unprofitable until difficulty changes down, to X-change
19 2010-12-15 00:03:52 <cosurgi> $ ./poclbm.py -d 1
20 2010-12-15 00:03:52 <cosurgi> Unable to communicate with bitcoin RPC
21 2010-12-15 00:03:58 <ByteCoin> The cabal strategy results in a lot of blocks being wasted so the effective generation rate for a given amount of total power takes a real dive
22 2010-12-15 00:03:58 <cosurgi> now I need to patch bitcoind
23 2010-12-15 00:04:00 <nanotube> ByteCoin: before diff change, cartel had total generation capacity of say, 40% of nthe network
24 2010-12-15 00:04:16 <nanotube> after diff change... cartel /still/ has a total gen capacity of 40% of the network.
25 2010-12-15 00:04:33 <nanotube> so nothing changes, and therefore it should be unprofitable after the diff change, as well.
26 2010-12-15 00:04:36 <appamatto> So many plans to improve on bitcoin lately
27 2010-12-15 00:04:43 <appamatto> gotta go, have fun!
28 2010-12-15 00:04:54 <ByteCoin> nanotube: Yes but due to cartel strategy it generates more than 40% of the coins!
29 2010-12-15 00:05:13 <nanotube> yes, but coins get generated slower and slower
30 2010-12-15 00:05:19 <nanotube> so there is no profit!
31 2010-12-15 00:05:20 <Lyspooner> doesn't matter
32 2010-12-15 00:05:44 <kiba> that slow down transaction processing, right?
33 2010-12-15 00:05:50 <ByteCoin> Not slower and slower. Just slower. After the difficulty goes down the rate will still be 2016 per fortnight or whatever
34 2010-12-15 00:06:11 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
35 2010-12-15 00:06:33 darrob has joined
36 2010-12-15 00:07:24 <ByteCoin> It seems likely that the cartel would have to operate arguably unprofitably for one 2 week period in order for the difficulty to adjust down.
37 2010-12-15 00:07:42 <ArtForz> yup
38 2010-12-15 00:07:43 <ByteCoin> But after that it's making money hand over fist
39 2010-12-15 00:07:50 <ArtForz> not exactly
40 2010-12-15 00:07:59 * ByteCoin exaggerates!
41 2010-12-15 00:08:01 <nanotube> even at lower difficulty, though... the rest of the network still competes for block generation
42 2010-12-15 00:08:20 <nanotube> so the cartel would be /more profitable/ if it just got paid for all the blocks it generates.
43 2010-12-15 00:08:25 <kiba> this have a bad effect on the network right? Since processing is slower.
44 2010-12-15 00:08:40 <ByteCoin> nanotube: Nevertheless they get a smaller share than they *should* get due to cartel strategy.
45 2010-12-15 00:08:42 <nanotube> yes since some blocks get rejected, it slows down tx processing.
46 2010-12-15 00:08:54 <kiba> that's not good for bitcoin overall
47 2010-12-15 00:08:58 <ByteCoin> Dunno about tx processing.
48 2010-12-15 00:09:23 <ByteCoin> Why would it slow down tx processing?
49 2010-12-15 00:09:26 <nanotube> well, after the diff adjustment, maybe not.
50 2010-12-15 00:09:28 <ArtForz> honestly, with the cartel at 40% of total network, why don't they just add another dozen or 2 of 5970s, get >50% and get 100% of generated blocks?
51 2010-12-15 00:09:32 <ByteCoin> I doubt it would be a significant effect
52 2010-12-15 00:09:49 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
53 2010-12-15 00:10:06 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Stop introducing practical considerations into this lovely and interesting theoretical exploration.
54 2010-12-15 00:10:10 darkskiez has joined
55 2010-12-15 00:10:33 <ByteCoin> Theymos has already explained on the forum that it won't work at all already...
56 2010-12-15 00:10:49 <ByteCoin> No cartel. Nothing to worry about!
57 2010-12-15 00:10:54 <ByteCoin> apparently.....
58 2010-12-15 00:10:55 <nanotube> ByteCoin: well, the 'leeway' on the time check in bitcoin is like a couple of hours.
59 2010-12-15 00:11:05 <kiba> bitcoin is apperantly resilence to abuse
60 2010-12-15 00:11:06 <nanotube> ByteCoin: so it can still work, you just can't "store up" long chains of blocks.
61 2010-12-15 00:11:13 <ByteCoin> Oh, in that case... game on!
62 2010-12-15 00:11:38 <nanotube> at least, iirc, as far as the couple of hours goes. ArtForz knows the actual detail of what the acceptable time error is.
63 2010-12-15 00:11:41 <ByteCoin> Someone better informed post that to the forum and put theymos in his place!
64 2010-12-15 00:12:06 <Lyspooner> i've got my cartel-blocker in place
65 2010-12-15 00:12:17 <ByteCoin> The cartel could hash blocks with future timestamps....
66 2010-12-15 00:12:29 <ArtForz> timestamps shouldnt matter at all
67 2010-12-15 00:12:31 <ByteCoin> Would be an interesting problem to get an optimum strategy
68 2010-12-15 00:12:45 <ByteCoin> Multiple cabals would be a minefield!
69 2010-12-15 00:13:00 <ArtForz> theres no limit on how "old" a block can be, it just can't be <= median of prev 11 blocks
70 2010-12-15 00:13:15 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
71 2010-12-15 00:13:19 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
72 2010-12-15 00:13:34 <ArtForz> so unless C is for some fucked up reason producing blocks with timestamps in the future, it shouldnt matter
73 2010-12-15 00:13:51 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Ok. I'll take your word for it.
74 2010-12-15 00:14:03 <Lyspooner> Cartel-blocker = mandatory pause between accepting consecutive blocks!
75 2010-12-15 00:15:06 <ByteCoin> Lyspooner: I do hope you have a forum post detailing your scheme. It sounds intriguing.
76 2010-12-15 00:15:15 <Lyspooner> mpkomara's post
77 2010-12-15 00:15:15 <ByteCoin> I look forward to giving it my full attention
78 2010-12-15 00:15:33 <ByteCoin> Ok. Probably won't respond today though...
79 2010-12-15 00:15:50 <Lyspooner> gnight then
80 2010-12-15 00:16:01 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
81 2010-12-15 00:16:10 Calebopeko has joined
82 2010-12-15 00:16:20 <noagendamarket> quantum blocks ?
83 2010-12-15 00:17:41 darrob has joined
84 2010-12-15 00:18:26 sgornick has joined
85 2010-12-15 00:18:41 <kiba> I love me some bitcoin
86 2010-12-15 00:18:52 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
87 2010-12-15 00:19:30 <ByteCoin> Artforz: You have some simulation code. Would you share it with us?
88 2010-12-15 00:19:38 <ByteCoin> Plz
89 2010-12-15 00:20:24 darkskiez has joined
90 2010-12-15 00:20:38 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
91 2010-12-15 00:21:02 davex__ has joined
92 2010-12-15 00:23:01 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,calc 270000
93 2010-12-15 00:23:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 270000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 6 hours, 8 minutes, and 16 seconds
94 2010-12-15 00:23:25 Calebopeko has quit (Quit: leaving)
95 2010-12-15 00:23:46 Caleb has joined
96 2010-12-15 00:23:46 Caleb is now known as Calebopeko
97 2010-12-15 00:24:31 <nanotube> fabianhjr: is that what your 5870 is pulling?
98 2010-12-15 00:24:42 RichardG_ has joined
99 2010-12-15 00:24:44 <RichardG_> !pool
100 2010-12-15 00:24:44 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated at 14/Dec/2010 20:31:04 GMT-2): 90 clients, 204877 khash/s, next block est. 2days 23hrs 20mins 47secs
101 2010-12-15 00:24:47 RichardG_ has quit (Client Quit)
102 2010-12-15 00:25:01 <fabianhjr> Hey, I am presenting BitCoin to random people I find on my surroundings about BitCoin. One question I was ask is "What security is backing up the BTC, is there silver, gold, or something else?" I got my answer and would love to hear others.
103 2010-12-15 00:25:30 <kiba> there is nothing backing up bitcoin
104 2010-12-15 00:25:33 <kiba> it's just all math
105 2010-12-15 00:25:42 <ByteCoin> The same thing's backing bitcoin as the thing backing gold etc...
106 2010-12-15 00:25:51 <fabianhjr> nanotube: it is pulling between 270 and 320.
107 2010-12-15 00:26:09 <fabianhjr> I lower it since I saw some inestability. Might OC>
108 2010-12-15 00:26:13 <ByteCoin> Or rather "The thing backing Bitcoin is the same as the thing backing gold"
109 2010-12-15 00:26:25 RichardG_ has joined
110 2010-12-15 00:26:26 <RichardG_> !pool
111 2010-12-15 00:26:27 <RichardG> Could not obtain pooled miner status - log empty? Last log line: Address 1LnpkHmrGvrcmrCncCkiVraov6Mm9BuAXm will receive 0.00697571 BTC if this block is solved
112 2010-12-15 00:26:27 <nanotube> fabianhjr: see bitcoin.org/faq, and http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=more_faqs
113 2010-12-15 00:26:57 <RichardG_> miner isnt logging, don't know why
114 2010-12-15 00:26:59 <RichardG_> !pool
115 2010-12-15 00:27:00 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated at 14/Dec/2010 22:25:06 GMT-2): 89 clients, 203108 khash/s, next block est. 2days 23hrs 58mins 4secs
116 2010-12-15 00:27:05 <nanotube> fabianhjr: looks good. :)
117 2010-12-15 00:27:06 <RichardG_> oh here it is
118 2010-12-15 00:27:15 <kiba> you should note...nobody can abritaryly print infinte bitcoins
119 2010-12-15 00:27:32 <kiba> you spend expensive resource to be able to mine bitcoin
120 2010-12-15 00:28:07 <RichardG_> !pool
121 2010-12-15 00:28:08 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 34secs ago): 89 clients, 202303 khash/s, next block est. 3days 15mins 15secs
122 2010-12-15 00:28:16 <RichardG_> improved my !pool command ;)
123 2010-12-15 00:28:30 RichardG_ has quit (Client Quit)
124 2010-12-15 00:28:36 <kiba> !pool
125 2010-12-15 00:28:37 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 4secs ago): 89 clients, 204109 khash/s, next block est. 2days 23hrs 36mins 53secs
126 2010-12-15 00:29:13 <RichardG> if you don't know what's this command, read on the pooled mining project
127 2010-12-15 00:29:26 <RichardG> it takes data from my mining log on doublec's server (the main one)
128 2010-12-15 00:29:39 <RichardG> anyways, off to sleep, bye
129 2010-12-15 00:29:42 <fabianhjr> !pool
130 2010-12-15 00:29:43 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 8secs ago): 90 clients, 209436 khash/s, next block est. 2days 21hrs 47mins 36secs
131 2010-12-15 00:30:31 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
132 2010-12-15 00:35:18 <ArtForz> wow, what a massive waste of power
133 2010-12-15 00:35:51 <ByteCoin> Artforz: ?
134 2010-12-15 00:36:10 <ArtForz> 90 machines, slower than a single 150W 5850
135 2010-12-15 00:36:16 <noagendamarket> haha
136 2010-12-15 00:36:23 <nanotube> ArtForz: it's probably people running off free electricity, or running it on machines that'd be otherwise on, or instead of running one of those @home projects.
137 2010-12-15 00:36:34 <ArtForz> yep
138 2010-12-15 00:36:36 <noagendamarket> its highly inneficient
139 2010-12-15 00:36:39 <nanotube> i'm pretty sure nobody in the pool is there "to make money"
140 2010-12-15 00:36:44 <ArtForz> no
141 2010-12-15 00:36:55 <donpdonp> even when the user doesnt "pay" for the electricity, there is still an environmental cost
142 2010-12-15 00:36:56 <nanotube> (or if they are... they'll be disappointed when they see the elec bill )
143 2010-12-15 00:37:07 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Do you have any simulation code I can play with please?
144 2010-12-15 00:37:11 <ArtForz> bytecoin: sec
145 2010-12-15 00:37:22 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Cheers!
146 2010-12-15 00:39:26 tailr is now known as naseviska
147 2010-12-15 00:42:58 AAA_awright_ has joined
148 2010-12-15 00:43:33 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/mxngRS0g
149 2010-12-15 00:43:37 <ArtForz> really simple
150 2010-12-15 00:44:13 <ArtForz> working on a version properly modelling block race
151 2010-12-15 00:44:18 <ByteCoin> thx. Reading....
152 2010-12-15 00:44:46 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
153 2010-12-15 00:44:48 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
154 2010-12-15 00:44:52 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
155 2010-12-15 00:45:51 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Question. random.random() returns a real in the range 0,1
156 2010-12-15 00:45:55 <ArtForz> yep
157 2010-12-15 00:46:17 Kiba` has joined
158 2010-12-15 00:46:33 <ArtForz> [0,1)
159 2010-12-15 00:46:53 sgornick has joined
160 2010-12-15 00:48:09 <ByteCoin> I believe that if you changed the 1000. to 100. your program would run 10 times faster with no side effects..
161 2010-12-15 00:48:13 <ArtForz> nope
162 2010-12-15 00:48:15 <ArtForz> try it
163 2010-12-15 00:48:47 <ByteCoin> Oh ok...
164 2010-12-15 00:48:52 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
165 2010-12-15 00:48:53 <ByteCoin> I misunderstood
166 2010-12-15 00:49:17 StrangeCharm has joined
167 2010-12-15 00:49:24 Kiba` is now known as kiba
168 2010-12-15 00:49:43 <ArtForz> increasing chance of finding a block per "tick" increases occurence of races
169 2010-12-15 00:50:41 <ByteCoin> Don't A_found_block and C_found_block keep the same values for on average 10 iterations of the while loop?
170 2010-12-15 00:50:54 <ArtForz> yes
171 2010-12-15 00:51:24 <ArtForz> I should add a (if neither found block, skip processing)
172 2010-12-15 00:52:09 <ByteCoin> Am I correct in thinking that this is a bug?
173 2010-12-15 00:52:53 <ArtForz> no
174 2010-12-15 00:53:05 <ByteCoin> hmmm
175 2010-12-15 00:53:17 <ArtForz> artifact of discrete timestep simulation
176 2010-12-15 00:54:07 <ByteCoin> does if A_found_block evaluate as true when A_found_block >0?
177 2010-12-15 00:54:19 <ArtForz> it's cast to bool
178 2010-12-15 00:54:37 <ArtForz> A_found_block is true if random() < target
179 2010-12-15 00:54:38 <ByteCoin> Not familiar with .... is it pyton?
180 2010-12-15 00:54:42 <ArtForz> yup
181 2010-12-15 00:54:53 <ByteCoin> so ints cast to bools behave how?
182 2010-12-15 00:54:58 <ByteCoin> in python...
183 2010-12-15 00:55:03 <ArtForz> note the < in the ()
184 2010-12-15 00:55:49 <ByteCoin> Ok. How do bools cast to ints work?
185 2010-12-15 00:55:54 <ByteCoin> true=1
186 2010-12-15 00:55:58 <ByteCoin> false=0
187 2010-12-15 00:56:00 <ArtForz> yep
188 2010-12-15 00:56:01 <ByteCoin> ?
189 2010-12-15 00:56:27 <ArtForz> x = bool(random() < target)) is equiv to C x = (random() < target) ? true : false;
190 2010-12-15 00:57:08 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,calc 325000
191 2010-12-15 00:57:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 325000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 day, 20 hours, 58 minutes, and 34 seconds
192 2010-12-15 00:57:11 <ByteCoin> Oh. Just realized there's A_found_block and A_found_blocks!
193 2010-12-15 00:57:16 <ArtForz> yes
194 2010-12-15 00:57:17 <ByteCoin> You are a bad, bad man!
195 2010-12-15 00:57:29 <ByteCoin> ;-)
196 2010-12-15 00:57:37 <ArtForz> A/C_found_blocks keeps track of total blocks found for each party
197 2010-12-15 00:57:45 <ArtForz> yeah, var naming fail
198 2010-12-15 00:58:06 <ArtForz> I hacked that in to be able to count # of lost blocks
199 2010-12-15 00:58:31 <ByteCoin> In time, I will learn to forgive you.
200 2010-12-15 01:02:46 <ByteCoin> May I post your code to the forum. I believe it may suffer from a similar flaw to appamatto's
201 2010-12-15 01:02:51 <ByteCoin> please?
202 2010-12-15 01:03:07 <ByteCoin> I will post a reply with my findings...
203 2010-12-15 01:03:13 <ByteCoin> Will take some time though...
204 2010-12-15 01:03:19 <ByteCoin> Happy to discuss
205 2010-12-15 01:03:23 <ByteCoin> now
206 2010-12-15 01:03:25 <ArtForz> sure, whatever
207 2010-12-15 01:03:27 <ByteCoin> ish
208 2010-12-15 01:03:30 <ArtForz> I knwo it's inaccurate
209 2010-12-15 01:03:33 <ByteCoin> Cool. Thx
210 2010-12-15 01:03:40 <ArtForz> doesnt properly model race situations
211 2010-12-15 01:04:27 <ByteCoin> I'm suspicious that because you "generate blocks" in two places in the code it's not counting things properly...
212 2010-12-15 01:04:49 <ArtForz> huh?
213 2010-12-15 01:05:29 <ByteCoin> It's hard to explain at this time of night...
214 2010-12-15 01:06:41 <ByteCoin> Suffice to say, that if I submit a string of ACCAACCAAACC data in place of your random function, the results should be essentially the same regardless of whether I miss off one character from the start of the string. Do you agree?
215 2010-12-15 01:07:39 <ArtForz> errr. not quite
216 2010-12-15 01:07:53 <ByteCoin> The choice of whether the next block was generated by A or C has a different effect depending on where it occurs in the code.
217 2010-12-15 01:08:05 <ByteCoin> Artforz explain why not quite?
218 2010-12-15 01:08:55 <ArtForz> you're missing the case of next block found by A and C
219 2010-12-15 01:09:11 <ByteCoin> Ok. I thought you might mention that,...
220 2010-12-15 01:09:41 <ArtForz> = A and C both finding a block in one timestep without knowing about the other side
221 2010-12-15 01:09:54 <ByteCoin> So if I submit a string of ACCAABAACCCB etc where B indicates that the next block is found by A and C then you would be happy??
222 2010-12-15 01:09:58 <ArtForz> thats also why increasing the timestep causes more races
223 2010-12-15 01:10:07 <ArtForz> yup
224 2010-12-15 01:10:49 <ArtForz> I'm completely restructuring it anyways
225 2010-12-15 01:10:53 <ByteCoin> If one symbol is missed off the start of any arbitrary sequence of plausible ACB characters then it should have a negligable effect on the overall outcome?
226 2010-12-15 01:10:59 <ArtForz> sure
227 2010-12-15 01:11:25 <ArtForz> 2 "A" populations for tiebreaking
228 2010-12-15 01:12:05 <ByteCoin> I will aim to show that your program is defective by finding a string where missing off one initial character produces very different results.
229 2010-12-15 01:12:18 <ArtForz> thats easy
230 2010-12-15 01:12:25 <ArtForz> "AC"
231 2010-12-15 01:12:46 <ByteCoin> You would accept that such a string would demonstrate a flaw in your program. We're talking LOOOONG strings
232 2010-12-15 01:12:56 <ArtForz> errr... no
233 2010-12-15 01:13:02 <ByteCoin> Strings millions of characters long.
234 2010-12-15 01:13:58 <ArtForz> lets see
235 2010-12-15 01:14:04 <ByteCoin> I thought you agreed to "if one symbol is missed off the start of any arbitrary sequence of plausible ACB characters then it should have a negligable effect on the outcome"
236 2010-12-15 01:14:29 <cosurgi> tell me: I need to patch bitcoind in order to allow communication between it and poclbm. Which version of bitcoind I have to patch? Where is the patch?
237 2010-12-15 01:15:07 <cosurgi> (OpenCL 2.1 on my ATI seems to work fine)
238 2010-12-15 01:15:08 <ArtForz> btw, who wins for a B ?
239 2010-12-15 01:15:18 <tcatm> cosurgi: no patch needed :)
240 2010-12-15 01:15:28 <cosurgi> oh!
241 2010-12-15 01:15:50 <ArtForz> and of course you need to have the proper weighting of events
242 2010-12-15 01:16:36 <ByteCoin> B means that both A_found_block and C_found_block are set to true at the same time
243 2010-12-15 01:16:41 <ByteCoin> B= both
244 2010-12-15 01:17:17 <ArtForz> well, as long as the relative occurences of ABC arent skewed, it should work
245 2010-12-15 01:17:24 <tcatm> what about just trying it on a custom testnet?
246 2010-12-15 01:17:49 <cosurgi> tcatm: is it going to work if both poclbm and bitcoind will be both calculating hashes? Or I need to disable it for bitcoind ?
247 2010-12-15 01:17:51 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Fair enough. I will ser to work tomorrow.
248 2010-12-15 01:17:55 <ByteCoin> set
249 2010-12-15 01:18:15 <tcatm> cosurgi: better disable it for bitcoind. It's only a waste of energy.
250 2010-12-15 01:18:22 <cosurgi> ok
251 2010-12-15 01:18:25 <cosurgi> -gen=0
252 2010-12-15 01:19:33 <ByteCoin> Artforz: Just explain a little about what A_chain and C_chain represent?
253 2010-12-15 01:19:36 <ByteCoin> plz
254 2010-12-15 01:19:48 <ArtForz> current block count in the respective chains
255 2010-12-15 01:20:14 <ArtForz> total public chain is A_won_blocks + C_won_blocks
256 2010-12-15 01:21:33 <ByteCoin> Ok. I'm getting there....
257 2010-12-15 01:22:22 <cosurgi> wow.
258 2010-12-15 01:22:45 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
259 2010-12-15 01:23:42 <cosurgi> 205 Mhs/sec on ATI 5830
260 2010-12-15 01:23:59 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 205820
261 2010-12-15 01:24:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 205820 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 23 hours, 1 minute, and 10 seconds
262 2010-12-15 01:24:20 <cosurgi> is that a speed that you'd expect from ATI 5830 ?
263 2010-12-15 01:24:23 nirgle has joined
264 2010-12-15 01:24:27 <tcatm> cosurgi: looks right
265 2010-12-15 01:24:37 <cosurgi> good :)
266 2010-12-15 01:24:37 * nirgle waves
267 2010-12-15 01:25:19 <ArtForz> yep
268 2010-12-15 01:25:26 <cosurgi> thanks :)
269 2010-12-15 01:25:27 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/AvymGnMJ
270 2010-12-15 01:26:15 <ByteCoin> I take it back about your program suffering the same flaw....
271 2010-12-15 01:27:01 <ByteCoin> Funny how everyone visualizes the same thing in different ways....
272 2010-12-15 01:28:36 <cosurgi> --frames=1 gives 209 Mhs/s
273 2010-12-15 01:28:48 <cosurgi> anything else I could finetune ?
274 2010-12-15 01:28:57 <ArtForz> hurrm, thats actually pretty damn good
275 2010-12-15 01:29:10 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
276 2010-12-15 01:29:13 <cosurgi> wow, now it's even 210 MHs/c
277 2010-12-15 01:29:46 <ArtForz> using m0s miner?
278 2010-12-15 01:29:46 <cosurgi> ...oscillating between 209 and 210
279 2010-12-15 01:29:50 <cosurgi> yes
280 2010-12-15 01:29:55 <tcatm> overclocked?
281 2010-12-15 01:29:59 <cosurgi> ~/m0/m0mchil-poclbm-1e3b163$
282 2010-12-15 01:30:01 <cosurgi> no.
283 2010-12-15 01:30:42 <ArtForz> thats... weird
284 2010-12-15 01:31:03 <cosurgi> I just bought that ATI today. I only: inserted that into box (had some problems with cables, etc..) upgraded to debian squeeze, installed ati drivers and opencl, and I've just run that miner. nothing else.
285 2010-12-15 01:31:12 <cosurgi> I don't even knopw how to overclock this :)
286 2010-12-15 01:31:30 <ArtForz> my table is 95% of theoretical peak
287 2010-12-15 01:31:52 <cosurgi> I can paste you some specs of this card
288 2010-12-15 01:31:58 <ArtForz> diablos miner is around there, m0s is usually a tad slower
289 2010-12-15 01:31:58 <cosurgi> just give me the commands you want me to run
290 2010-12-15 01:32:11 <cosurgi> it's all remote terminal, so no fancy GUI fglrc-stuff allowed
291 2010-12-15 01:32:20 <cosurgi> *fglrx-stuff
292 2010-12-15 01:32:21 <ArtForz> so m0s suddenly getting 97.3% theoretical peak is... unexpected
293 2010-12-15 01:32:59 <cosurgi> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 5800 Series (Cypress LE)
294 2010-12-15 01:33:16 <cosurgi> ArtForz: where's diablo's miner? :)
295 2010-12-15 01:33:52 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.0
296 2010-12-15 01:34:02 <cosurgi> thanks, checking.... :)
297 2010-12-15 01:34:09 <ArtForz> openCL miner written in java
298 2010-12-15 01:42:45 <fabianhjr> I got 0.10 BTC to spare. Anyone have a suggestion on what to spend them on?
299 2010-12-15 01:42:55 <AAA_awright> Donation?
300 2010-12-15 01:43:05 <AAA_awright> Give it back to the faucet you stole it from
301 2010-12-15 01:43:07 <donpdonp> 2oz of Four Loco
302 2010-12-15 01:43:18 <AAA_awright> ;)
303 2010-12-15 01:44:23 <fabianhjr> WTF are you talking about? I got them to spare, so I was thinking on getting some kiba's art.
304 2010-12-15 01:44:52 <AAA_awright> Woa
305 2010-12-15 01:45:11 <AAA_awright> ...kiba has art?
306 2010-12-15 01:45:19 <cosurgi> thats 2 cents actually :)
307 2010-12-15 01:45:44 <fabianhjr> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1929.0
308 2010-12-15 01:46:21 <kiba> a long running thread of kiba's art project
309 2010-12-15 01:46:48 <kiba> I barely colored the girl's head lol
310 2010-12-15 01:50:33 <fabianhjr> kiba: which one is your favourite.(I can only buy one atm)
311 2010-12-15 01:50:57 <doublec> !pool
312 2010-12-15 01:53:08 <kiba> fabianhjr: they are just the same art piece
313 2010-12-15 01:53:14 <kiba> and it's a work in progress
314 2010-12-15 01:53:23 leeth has joined
315 2010-12-15 01:53:28 <kiba> the latest image is the latest revision
316 2010-12-15 01:53:34 <kiba> and oldest image is the ugliest
317 2010-12-15 01:53:50 <fabianhjr> Oh! Do you have any finished work I could use to promote BitCoins(Planing on selling posters and tshirts)
318 2010-12-15 01:54:08 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 200000
319 2010-12-15 01:54:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes, and 10 seconds
320 2010-12-15 01:54:31 <da2ce7> Proposal Two: Named Addresses is done http://domainchain.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitname 2/3rds complete.
321 2010-12-15 01:54:52 wheel has joined
322 2010-12-15 01:54:57 <AAA_awright> I wonder if I could sell music like that...
323 2010-12-15 01:55:50 lethys has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
324 2010-12-15 01:56:21 fabianhjr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
325 2010-12-15 01:56:30 fabianhjr has joined
326 2010-12-15 01:56:55 <fabianhjr> well, I am actually setting up a pledge for an easy to use PrestaShop module to accept BitCoins as payments. You are welcomed to claim them anytime(Currently mining them)
327 2010-12-15 01:57:26 <fabianhjr> That could help many actually offer products with BitCoins
328 2010-12-15 01:59:12 <kiba> fabianhjr: no. If I was finished, I would already have a t-shirt in print production :P
329 2010-12-15 02:00:48 AAA_awright_ has joined
330 2010-12-15 02:02:42 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
331 2010-12-15 02:03:44 devon_hillard_ has joined
332 2010-12-15 02:04:07 <fabianhjr> Ok.
333 2010-12-15 02:05:18 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
334 2010-12-15 02:05:28 xelister has joined
335 2010-12-15 02:06:14 Akiraaaa has joined
336 2010-12-15 02:06:24 <xelister> USA payed people to troyan/backdoor opensource kernels, reports OpenBSD developer. This then probably is true also for Linux. Damn USA spies everywhere, what the hell.
337 2010-12-15 02:06:52 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
338 2010-12-15 02:08:22 <da2ce7> http://domainchain.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitname
339 2010-12-15 02:08:39 <da2ce7> done :) well i'm going to flesh it out a bit... what do you think?
340 2010-12-15 02:09:42 devon_hillard_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
341 2010-12-15 02:11:07 Akiraaaa has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
342 2010-12-15 02:12:38 <xelister> http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/10/12/15/004235/FBI-Alleged-To-Have-Backdoored-OpenBSDs-IPSEC-Stack
343 2010-12-15 02:12:52 <fabianhjr> xelister, just sniff the traffic from any given box for a week after a kernel upgrade. Search for anything out of ordinary and boom. You got them.
344 2010-12-15 02:13:29 <fabianhjr> Tough, a commit passes trough a lot of revision before it gets pushed to the mainline, 0_o
345 2010-12-15 02:16:56 <cosurgi> hmm.. problems with diablo miner
346 2010-12-15 02:17:07 <cosurgi> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /home/bitcoin/diablo-miner/DiabloMiner/target/libs/natives/linux/liblwjgl.so: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun-1.6.0.22/jre/lib/i386/libjawt.so: symbol awt_FreeDrawingSurface, version SUNWprivate_1.1 not defined in file libmawt.so with link time reference
347 2010-12-15 02:17:45 <cosurgi> export DISPLAY=:0 seems to have fixed this
348 2010-12-15 02:17:56 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
349 2010-12-15 02:17:59 <cosurgi> [15.12.10 03:16:07] Started
350 2010-12-15 02:17:59 <cosurgi> [15.12.10 03:16:17] Added Cypress (#1) (14 CU, local work size of 256)
351 2010-12-15 02:18:01 <cosurgi> Waiting...
352 2010-12-15 02:18:21 <cosurgi> huh??
353 2010-12-15 02:18:25 <cosurgi> 213624 khash/sec\
354 2010-12-15 02:18:57 <ArtForz> it needs a minute or so to stabilize
355 2010-12-15 02:19:56 <cosurgi> it is now oscillating between 212 and 214
356 2010-12-15 02:20:09 <ArtForz> guess you got a fast card
357 2010-12-15 02:20:19 <cosurgi> :-D
358 2010-12-15 02:20:26 <ArtForz> happens sometimes, one of my 5970s is also doing this
359 2010-12-15 02:21:03 <cosurgi> is there a C++ OpenCL miner somewhere?
360 2010-12-15 02:21:12 <ArtForz> I dont think so
361 2010-12-15 02:21:32 <cosurgi> ok. so maybe I'll look at that java code and rewrite it into C++
362 2010-12-15 02:21:57 <ArtForz> would be nice, needing JRE on miners is inconvenient
363 2010-12-15 02:22:15 <xelister> fabianhjr: what?
364 2010-12-15 02:22:27 <fabianhjr> ?
365 2010-12-15 02:22:31 <cosurgi> but I still don't get what miner is doing. I only know that it wants to find hashes that start with zeros.
366 2010-12-15 02:22:36 <xelister> fabianhjr: I dont get you ;) how is tracking devel box traffic going to help any shit?
367 2010-12-15 02:23:06 <cosurgi> care to say shortly exact procedure?
368 2010-12-15 02:23:07 <fabianhjr> xelister: if you sniff for a week the keylogger must send the log at least once. Then you will know for sure.
369 2010-12-15 02:23:12 <xelister> United States of American fucking government (allegedly) paid developer to 'donate' troyaned code to open source kernels like openbsd
370 2010-12-15 02:23:20 <fabianhjr> If you develop a Keylogger you want a way to access the logs.
371 2010-12-15 02:23:24 <xelister> fabianhjr: also, what you say is fucking stupid
372 2010-12-15 02:23:37 <fabianhjr> Why?
373 2010-12-15 02:23:47 <xelister> fabianhjr: I could even hide the keylogger report (if that would be the use of the troyan) in timing informations of regular trafic
374 2010-12-15 02:24:05 <xelister> no "watching" would detect such stenography
375 2010-12-15 02:24:13 <cosurgi> wow. it has just hit 216 MHs/s
376 2010-12-15 02:24:25 <cosurgi> now back to 213
377 2010-12-15 02:24:30 <fabianhjr> xelister: if you stego something you still have to send it.
378 2010-12-15 02:24:51 <xelister> fabianhjr: no
379 2010-12-15 02:25:09 <xelister> fabianhjr: just variate timing of the NORMAL traffic a bit, and use this tiny time drifts as bits of your steno
380 2010-12-15 02:25:32 <fabianhjr> Yeah, you neeed a way to get the logs from the victim to the attacker.
381 2010-12-15 02:25:46 <xelister> <xelister> fabianhjr: just variate timing of the NORMAL traffic a bit, and use this tiny time drifts as bits of your steno
382 2010-12-15 02:25:49 <ArtForz> yes, but hiding something like that in open source code... good luck
383 2010-12-15 02:26:01 <xelister> perhaps this attack is too complex for you to understand though, fabianhjr
384 2010-12-15 02:26:40 <xelister> ArtForz: it happened. Attacker: USA gov, target: OpenBSD kernel. Already done (allagedly, they are now verifying how bad the backdoor was and how much that code is still in use today)
385 2010-12-15 02:26:43 <fabianhjr> What you are saying is that you can send data from point A to point B by sneding this data to a random point C and hope it routes to you?
386 2010-12-15 02:26:58 <fabianhjr> Oh!
387 2010-12-15 02:27:00 <xelister> ArtForz: http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/10/12/15/004235/FBI-Alleged-To-Have-Backdoored-OpenBSDs-IPSEC-Stack?from=twitter
388 2010-12-15 02:27:02 <ArtForz> backdoor != keylogger
389 2010-12-15 02:27:32 <xelister> fabianhjr: duuh yeah. Just bribe/mob the ISP of either point A or C. That is what thugs and criminals like usa gov can do well
390 2010-12-15 02:27:46 <fabianhjr> You mean like them reading the actual routing? That would cause a massive lag and would be clearly notisable.
391 2010-12-15 02:28:04 <xelister> fabianhjr: boy you are so naive its even not funny, this FBI is doing for many years
392 2010-12-15 02:28:13 <ArtForz> hiding something like messing up a DH key exchange so it accepts certain "invalid" keys is a LOT easier than hiding a full blown keylogger
393 2010-12-15 02:28:35 <xelister> fabianhjr: actually, for example USA ISPs are REQUIRED BY LAW to prepare equipment for the FBI/other thugs to easly listen on your traffic, on ISP level
394 2010-12-15 02:28:38 <fabianhjr> ArtForz got a point
395 2010-12-15 02:29:05 <fabianhjr> xelister: I am not aware of USA regulations, I apologies.
396 2010-12-15 02:29:20 <xelister> also, for ISP logging all packages times/src/dst is triviall. Even I do it right now
397 2010-12-15 02:29:35 <xelister> and recording it is trivial, and of course introduces no lag
398 2010-12-15 02:29:41 <fabianhjr> Doesn't it cause a lot of lag?
399 2010-12-15 02:29:49 * xelister facepalms
400 2010-12-15 02:29:56 <xelister> I do it RIGHT NOW, of course it makes NO LAG
401 2010-12-15 02:30:06 <xelister> ok perhaps a 0.00001 sec lag
402 2010-12-15 02:30:15 <xelister> if the router would be a pentium I
403 2010-12-15 02:30:20 <fabianhjr> So, let me guess, you cannot filter, however, you make a copy of each packet and send it to another machine for loggging?
404 2010-12-15 02:31:01 <xelister> if computer A have backdoor in firewall stack, then I could steal any information from this computer
405 2010-12-15 02:31:08 <fabianhjr> Sorry, I am newb and I am catching up.
406 2010-12-15 02:31:18 Grantt has joined
407 2010-12-15 02:31:21 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
408 2010-12-15 02:31:23 Grantt is now known as Granttt
409 2010-12-15 02:31:25 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
410 2010-12-15 02:31:25 Granttt has joined
411 2010-12-15 02:31:31 <xelister> computer A sends the packets with a tiny time variance. or special way of 'random' afair cookies or port numbers and so on
412 2010-12-15 02:31:41 <xelister> and this tiny bits can be used as stenography
413 2010-12-15 02:31:42 <fabianhjr> Ok
414 2010-12-15 02:31:51 <fabianhjr> Yeah, I agree.
415 2010-12-15 02:31:59 <xelister> computer A sends to A's ISP, it send to backbone, it sends to other backbone etc
416 2010-12-15 02:32:08 <noagendamarket> I guess since its open source the governemnent can contribute code :)-
417 2010-12-15 02:32:29 <xelister> if A's ISP is for example in USA then it is required to allow fully logging. Then get logs, compare times, filter out noise, and you have the data
418 2010-12-15 02:32:33 <xelister> and that is just one of ideas
419 2010-12-15 02:32:37 <xelister> anyway, that are the tech details
420 2010-12-15 02:32:44 <xelister> the poins was, USA are fucking dick faggots,
421 2010-12-15 02:32:51 <noagendamarket> lol
422 2010-12-15 02:32:58 <xelister> for hiring coders to plant backdoors even in open source kernels
423 2010-12-15 02:33:12 anon92 has quit (Quit: anon92)
424 2010-12-15 02:33:20 <xelister> imho this is even bigger as USA idiots gathering DNA of world leaders and NATO leaders
425 2010-12-15 02:33:21 <noagendamarket> You can do that when you can print all the cash you need
426 2010-12-15 02:33:49 <xelister> anyway this stroy is developing now, on http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/10/12/15/004235/FBI-Alleged-To-Have-Backdoored-OpenBSDs-IPSEC-Stack and http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/elw0x/allegations_regarding_openbsd_ipsec_fbi_backdoors/c193a5v
427 2010-12-15 02:34:20 <xelister> so if you think your computer is quite secure - think again - uncle sam may be screwing you in the ass right now with such criminal activities
428 2010-12-15 02:34:40 <noagendamarket> ffs
429 2010-12-15 02:34:42 <kiba> you believe everything you read, xelister ?
430 2010-12-15 02:35:04 <kiba> you need some mild skepticalism
431 2010-12-15 02:35:22 <xelister> kiba: I beliver the developer of OpenBSD kernel. And as he said, the story is unfolding right now, we will see where it leads
432 2010-12-15 02:35:54 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: interesting book; seek "Malicious Cryptography: Exposing Cryptovirology" by A. Young, M. Yung.
433 2010-12-15 02:36:30 <midnightmagic> could be as simple as a keygen width reduction. couple bits might do the trick.
434 2010-12-15 02:36:37 <xelister> kiba: but since we knew USA are ok with stuff, like, from killing natives, via posioning watter supply in France with LSD (resulting in few deaths too), via attacking many countries, to smear campaign against wikileaks and to war on own citizens... I think it is well within normal behaviour of this criminakls
435 2010-12-15 02:36:39 <xelister> criminals
436 2010-12-15 02:36:43 <Granttt> is this really any "shock", what took them so long, they announced war on internets a while ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8073654.stm
437 2010-12-15 02:37:08 <noagendamarket> *rages
438 2010-12-15 02:37:09 <kiba> there's criminal behavior and feasialbity of doing said criminal behavior
439 2010-12-15 02:37:38 <kiba> national security is such a murky concept ;)
440 2010-12-15 02:37:41 <midnightmagic> feasibility of a keyspace usage reduction > small. :)
441 2010-12-15 02:37:45 <xelister> kiba: paying some coder to hide a backdoor? it happens all the time even by accident, why it should be not possible to do it on purpose
442 2010-12-15 02:38:01 <noagendamarket> "cyber tsar"
443 2010-12-15 02:38:04 <midnightmagic> "National Security" is a weapon by which the prole is oppressed.
444 2010-12-15 02:38:07 <xelister> Granttt: yeah, what that nigger is doing
445 2010-12-15 02:38:23 <kiba> if you want security, abolish all gun control laws
446 2010-12-15 02:38:23 <noagendamarket> xelister thats a bit much
447 2010-12-15 02:38:27 <midnightmagic> xelister: yeah, now you're just batshit foaming..
448 2010-12-15 02:38:30 <xelister> Granttt: what are the people thinking now? "oh yea we voted the liberal, free, internet friendly guy hehe <3... oh, no... wait..... oh."
449 2010-12-15 02:38:40 <kiba> than if somebody want to invade you, they better be prepared for a long war against civilians
450 2010-12-15 02:38:44 <xelister> kiba: what do you mean?
451 2010-12-15 02:38:45 <Granttt> he's just doing his job, the president is decentralized p2p engine of the lobbyists who sponsored him ;)
452 2010-12-15 02:38:53 <midnightmagic> perhaps trollboy has outlived his useful presence in the channel.
453 2010-12-15 02:39:00 <kiba> xelister: the proliberation of arms amongst civilians....
454 2010-12-15 02:39:07 <xelister> kiba: in USA guns are allowed though
455 2010-12-15 02:39:23 <noagendamarket> not everywhere
456 2010-12-15 02:39:25 * midnightmagic prods gribble/nanotube/nathan7/etc.
457 2010-12-15 02:39:26 <kiba> xelister: some people want to control who get to have guns...
458 2010-12-15 02:39:36 <midnightmagic> racist trolls aren't appreciated.
459 2010-12-15 02:39:42 <xelister> kiba: well I think allowing all guns and allowing much more things is good - in a sense that it makes it harder for grup of thugs (like gov) to get exclusive controll over power
460 2010-12-15 02:39:53 <kiba> xelister: that's the whole point
461 2010-12-15 02:40:53 <kiba> and you can't get something like a bunch of terrorists take over whole planes with a bunch of box cutter or something
462 2010-12-15 02:40:57 <xelister> midnightmagic: nigger please. I have nothing against black people. But I laugh at idiots that put so called "politicall correctness" above anything else. Example: it is o.k. to kill people based on their nationality or race (in example 'sand niggers' in Iraq), but it is bad to say the N- word. Wtf is up with that.
463 2010-12-15 02:41:49 <xelister> but that is just small digression from the topic of - how usa gov are dicks and can we trust then any computing system to be secure
464 2010-12-15 02:41:51 <kiba> real security is not about sending an occupation force to some faraway country
465 2010-12-15 02:41:51 <midnightmagic> xelister: nice pause before escalating. You are a troll. Your timing gives you away.
466 2010-12-15 02:42:04 <midnightmagic> Hey.. OPS.. wtf guys?
467 2010-12-15 02:42:09 <noagendamarket> fed
468 2010-12-15 02:42:14 <xelister> midnightmagic: there is a magic /ignore command
469 2010-12-15 02:42:21 <kiba> xelister is not a troll, just a very passionate person
470 2010-12-15 02:42:26 <xelister> I mean, even hardware CPUs are being backdoored
471 2010-12-15 02:42:26 <ArtForz> yep
472 2010-12-15 02:42:42 <xelister> now the supposedly most secure os, openbsd is (allagedly still) backdoored since 'ever'
473 2010-12-15 02:42:44 <ArtForz> at least xe, diablo and me like to rant about random crazy stuff from time to time
474 2010-12-15 02:42:46 <midnightmagic> sounds trolly to me. that's deliberate antagonism.
475 2010-12-15 02:42:51 <xelister> .me highfives ArtForz
476 2010-12-15 02:43:23 <xelister> I think nowdays man can trust a computing platform, if he builds it from scratch, from logical gates from raw materials
477 2010-12-15 02:43:27 <xelister> this is sad
478 2010-12-15 02:44:19 <noagendamarket> for the 90 per cent of people who dont compile all their own shit its bad
479 2010-12-15 02:44:26 <noagendamarket> thats all that matters
480 2010-12-15 02:44:32 <ArtForz> well, at least obsd has more than 65536 possible rsa keys :P
481 2010-12-15 02:44:41 <xelister> midnightmagic: btw if you fell strongly about problems of racial (or any other) hate, then act on that case where USA police beaten up a black girl 'because', or a Pollock wemen recently. Write your senator or soemthing
482 2010-12-15 02:44:48 <midnightmagic> okay then. xelister, douchebags claim anti-PC as an umbrella for their douchebaggery. That doesn't make them any less douchebaggy.
483 2010-12-15 02:45:19 <xelister> have to go now
484 2010-12-15 02:45:19 <midnightmagic> Also, I'm not American.
485 2010-12-15 02:45:45 <xelister> everyone should tweet/tell friends/or smth about this crap from USA (and other govs;) and about bitcoin by the way \o/ bbl o/
486 2010-12-15 02:45:48 <nanotube> that said... you guys might want to take the offtopic discussion to -discussion or something. :)
487 2010-12-15 02:46:09 <nanotube> though i guess it's fine in absence of actual dev-related talk happening at the same time...
488 2010-12-15 02:46:27 <ArtForz> this channel isn't #bitcoin-usually-ot ?
489 2010-12-15 02:46:40 <ArtForz> ;)
490 2010-12-15 02:47:33 Calebopeko has quit (Quit: leaving)
491 2010-12-15 02:48:18 <MT`AwAy> (if anyone wants to spend time reading php, the gawker/gizmodo hackers who released the user passwords to the world also included some sourcecodes)
492 2010-12-15 02:48:58 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
493 2010-12-15 02:50:13 <nanotube> ArtForz: heh yea, de-facto it is ;)
494 2010-12-15 02:50:40 <Zarutian> xelister: that (build computer up from raw materials) or use mutually private computing on two machines http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2007/08/mutually-private-computation.html
495 2010-12-15 02:51:22 <xelister> Zarutian: seems fun
496 2010-12-15 02:51:38 <xelister> Zarutian: randomized things like even say private key generator are problem though etc et
497 2010-12-15 02:51:42 <xelister> but in fact this is one solution
498 2010-12-15 02:51:46 <xelister> ok g2g cya
499 2010-12-15 02:56:11 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
500 2010-12-15 02:57:08 achristianson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
501 2010-12-15 02:57:59 achristianson has joined
502 2010-12-15 02:58:42 <xelister> btw if it didnt worked with wikileaks dotations by BTC, then perhaps #openbsd would like.. some1 should ask
503 2010-12-15 03:03:39 <kiba> donation
504 2010-12-15 03:08:26 <MT`AwAy> lol
505 2010-12-15 03:13:07 <noagendamarket> I like that someone wants to send a satellite into space
506 2010-12-15 03:13:14 pr0wler has joined
507 2010-12-15 03:13:31 <noagendamarket> it will be cool if they run a bitcoin client from there
508 2010-12-15 03:13:31 <ArtForz> where else would you send a satellite?
509 2010-12-15 03:13:37 <noagendamarket> haha
510 2010-12-15 03:17:48 <noagendamarket> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2282.0 i was referencing that thread
511 2010-12-15 03:18:41 aximilation_ has joined
512 2010-12-15 03:18:50 <aximilation_> hey all
513 2010-12-15 03:19:57 wheel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
514 2010-12-15 03:22:15 <Auctus> won't bitcoin eventually fill your hard drive with transaction history/blocks/whatever?
515 2010-12-15 03:23:00 Lysacor has joined
516 2010-12-15 03:24:04 <Lysacor> Well tonight I am officially one more to blame for the difficulty going up :P
517 2010-12-15 03:24:23 <Lysacor> ;;bc,calc 334000
518 2010-12-15 03:24:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 334000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 day, 19 hours, 45 minutes, and 51 seconds
519 2010-12-15 03:24:38 <Lysacor> ;;bc,estimate
520 2010-12-15 03:24:39 <gribble> 13735.55418392
521 2010-12-15 03:25:58 <noagendamarket> Auctus most of the transactions will be forgotten in future
522 2010-12-15 03:26:06 <ArtForz> doesn't look like we'll be doing x1.4 this time
523 2010-12-15 03:26:50 gavinandresen has left ()
524 2010-12-15 03:27:17 <ArtForz> we're already > 800 blocks into current difficulty, if rate of growth stays the same we're headed for ~x1.3
525 2010-12-15 03:28:23 <aximilation_> hmm, so if I leave it on for a couple days how much space would I be expecting to see it use?
526 2010-12-15 03:28:26 <Lysacor> well at least as long as we don't get another ~4000 increase like we got last round
527 2010-12-15 03:28:32 <ArtForz> which would nicely balance out the ~ x1.5 from 8078 to 12252
528 2010-12-15 03:29:21 <Lysacor> agreed, at least I won't feel like I wasted money on the investment in this card
529 2010-12-15 03:29:35 <ArtForz> as before we were doing pretty close to x1.4 per difficulty
530 2010-12-15 03:30:26 <Lysacor> We shall see what happens in the coming days. You think there could be a significant swing?
531 2010-12-15 03:30:34 <ArtForz> kinda
532 2010-12-15 03:30:48 <ArtForz> looks like prices are rising again
533 2010-12-15 03:30:52 pr0wler has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
534 2010-12-15 03:31:37 <Lysacor> yep, I should have had my sell price higher on mtgox, I got a bit excited on the last price spike earlier last week
535 2010-12-15 03:31:54 <noagendamarket> I think they should after all the positive publicity
536 2010-12-15 03:31:59 <ArtForz> yep
537 2010-12-15 03:32:03 <Lysacor> absolutely
538 2010-12-15 03:32:14 <noagendamarket> the EFF just posted another article including bitcoin
539 2010-12-15 03:32:34 <kiba> yeah, we know
540 2010-12-15 03:32:39 <aximilation_> I *just* started running it tonight
541 2010-12-15 03:32:45 <ArtForz> which means more miners expecting a continued uptrend, which makes investing in mining equipment more likely
542 2010-12-15 03:33:09 <Lysacor> welcome to the fun aximilation_ :)
543 2010-12-15 03:33:14 <midnightmagic> sweet..
544 2010-12-15 03:33:21 <aximilation_> thanks :-D
545 2010-12-15 03:33:41 <aximilation_> I'm not sure what to expect with it, but my computer sits idle most offff the time, so hey why not?
546 2010-12-15 03:33:48 <noagendamarket> newegg would make a bit if they sold gpus for bitcoins...
547 2010-12-15 03:34:10 <Lysacor> oh heck yeah they would...
548 2010-12-15 03:34:23 <noagendamarket> probably more than the people buying them lol
549 2010-12-15 03:34:27 <Lysacor> aximilation_: could be worse ways to burn electricity
550 2010-12-15 03:34:40 <aximilation_> haha
551 2010-12-15 03:34:48 <ArtForz> if bitcoin becomes more widespread a few people at are gonna scratch their heads why people keep buying 5970s :P
552 2010-12-15 03:35:00 <noagendamarket> lol
553 2010-12-15 03:35:04 <Lysacor> and then the price will go up perhaps because of demand?
554 2010-12-15 03:35:11 <Lysacor> especially if there is a shortage
555 2010-12-15 03:35:18 <aximilation_> ...and say hello to a bunch of incoming connections to 8333, lolllll
556 2010-12-15 03:35:29 <ArtForz> well, I hope lots of gamers are going for 6970/6990
557 2010-12-15 03:35:37 <ArtForz> = more decent used 5970s on ebay
558 2010-12-15 03:35:58 <Lysacor> mmmm that is true.... 500 USD is still a bit high for me :P
559 2010-12-15 03:36:06 <Lysacor> even though it is 2x my Mhash...
560 2010-12-15 03:36:18 <noagendamarket> what is the difference in hash rates?
561 2010-12-15 03:36:18 <aximilation_> what's this, using video cards to help crunch numbers?
562 2010-12-15 03:36:21 * Lysacor cries
563 2010-12-15 03:36:28 <ArtForz> yup
564 2010-12-15 03:36:31 <Lysacor> hehe GPU mining
565 2010-12-15 03:36:34 <ArtForz> thing is, it doesnt look like 6970 will be good for mining
566 2010-12-15 03:36:36 <kiba> noagendamarket: did ya try my http://www.soulplaying.com todo RPG?
567 2010-12-15 03:36:46 <ArtForz> my calc says about 244Mhash/s
568 2010-12-15 03:36:46 <Lysacor> oh really, I haven't seen the specs on it
569 2010-12-15 03:36:59 <ArtForz> well, rumored specs are 1536 ALUs, 880MHz
570 2010-12-15 03:37:01 <midnightmagic> the GPU is sometimes two orders of magnitude stronger than a moderately-fast CPU in mining.
571 2010-12-15 03:37:06 <ArtForz> release is... today
572 2010-12-15 03:37:11 <aximilation_> oh nice
573 2010-12-15 03:37:25 <midnightmagic> and it's possible to stuff four (or more, I guess) into a single system.
574 2010-12-15 03:37:27 <ArtForz> well, or tommorow, depends on timezone
575 2010-12-15 03:37:50 <noagendamarket> well that would increase difficulty
576 2010-12-15 03:38:03 <kiba> wonders why nobody bother to try out
577 2010-12-15 03:38:06 <ArtForz> afaict NDA lift is 15. 12AM EST
578 2010-12-15 03:38:07 <Lysacor> well, we will see who gets to do the sucker.... err beta testing :P
579 2010-12-15 03:38:08 <aximilation_> how does an AMDII x64 2.6ghz rank in the whole scheme of things?
580 2010-12-15 03:38:08 <kiba> it's a 15 days trial
581 2010-12-15 03:38:49 <ArtForz> but if the leaked specs are true, a 6970 is barely faster than a 5850 for mining
582 2010-12-15 03:39:20 <Lysacor> aximilation_ my wife has one... but won't let me test it on her box... but I estimate a decent amount... I think that those cpu's can do 4-way if I reacll
583 2010-12-15 03:39:22 <Lysacor> recall
584 2010-12-15 03:39:33 <Lysacor> the AMD Phenom II x4 right?
585 2010-12-15 03:39:39 <ArtForz> not too surprising, 58xx was exceptionally ALU-heavy for a GPU
586 2010-12-15 03:39:51 <aximilation_> erm, not sure
587 2010-12-15 03:40:00 <aximilation_> AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 620 Processor
588 2010-12-15 03:40:10 <midnightmagic> I can tell you what an AMD 1090T Black Edition can do..
589 2010-12-15 03:40:13 <Lysacor> aaah, well it is on the lower end
590 2010-12-15 03:40:25 <ArtForz> Ahtlon II is still K10 arch, right?
591 2010-12-15 03:40:36 <Lysacor> I believe so
592 2010-12-15 03:40:43 <aximilation_> not sure about it, I just know it runs well :-D
593 2010-12-15 03:40:44 <ArtForz> should get close to the same hash/MHz/core as a PhenomII
594 2010-12-15 03:41:03 <noagendamarket> damn 5970's are all over $700 AUD
595 2010-12-15 03:41:05 <ArtForz> as the miner loop should be small enough to fit in L1
596 2010-12-15 03:41:16 <ArtForz> australians gets fucked when it comes to tech
597 2010-12-15 03:41:42 <midnightmagic> 3.2GHz, each core using the cpuminer can do about 2.3Mhash/sec; total is about 14Mhash/sec, or (coincidentally) about as fast as a GeForce 9600GT.
598 2010-12-15 03:41:52 <noagendamarket> I dont think its worth it just to mine
599 2010-12-15 03:41:58 <midnightmagic> 5970 here is $500 CAD.
600 2010-12-15 03:42:02 <Lysacor> anyone in the southern hemisphere from what I can tell, Chile is the same way... almost 100% markup
601 2010-12-15 03:42:23 <noagendamarket> probably cost heaps in postage from the states
602 2010-12-15 03:42:25 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
603 2010-12-15 03:42:29 <aximilation_> so when I run bitcoind is it automatically mining?
604 2010-12-15 03:42:32 <Lysacor> midnightmagic: good lord... decent cpu hash rate indeed
605 2010-12-15 03:42:44 <ArtForz> 5970 here WAS 380EUR incl. 19% VAT, now it's back up to 410
606 2010-12-15 03:42:56 Phoebus has joined
607 2010-12-15 03:43:10 <noagendamarket> I blame you for pushing up demand lol
608 2010-12-15 03:43:35 <Lysacor> didn't you get some ungodly amount of 5970's art?
609 2010-12-15 03:43:39 <ArtForz> 24
610 2010-12-15 03:43:47 <midnightmagic> Lysacor: that's with the 4way core in the cpuminer from.. hrm.. git://github.com/jgarzik/cpuminer.git
611 2010-12-15 03:43:51 pr0wler has joined
612 2010-12-15 03:43:53 <Lysacor> wow... yeah... I don't wanna see that electric bill
613 2010-12-15 03:43:57 <ArtForz> cancelled my order for 12 more, they pushed the shipping date out to january
614 2010-12-15 03:44:35 <Lysacor> there goes the difficulty, thanks for giving me at least a week to TRY to get some generated coins! :D
615 2010-12-15 03:44:53 <ArtForz> guess I made a e-tailer happy (ordered em back when they were 380 a pop)
616 2010-12-15 03:45:17 <Lysacor> damn... I can't find them for less than 499 anywhere, you must have done some research
617 2010-12-15 03:45:32 <ArtForz> thats 380 euros
618 2010-12-15 03:45:34 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
619 2010-12-15 03:45:54 <Lysacor> aaah not USD
620 2010-12-15 03:46:09 <noagendamarket> I think artforz is plugged directly into a power station
621 2010-12-15 03:46:21 <noagendamarket> with an extension lead lol
622 2010-12-15 03:46:22 <Lysacor> ok sorry, gotta get my shit fiat currency out of my head by default...
623 2010-12-15 03:46:28 <ArtForz> I should write a FAQ
624 2010-12-15 03:46:36 <noagendamarket> haha
625 2010-12-15 03:46:46 <noagendamarket> an Arti FAQ ?
626 2010-12-15 03:46:51 <ArtForz> yup
627 2010-12-15 03:47:04 <Lysacor> who needs an extension cord, I got some 8 gauge copper waiting to whip up there! :P
628 2010-12-15 03:47:28 <noagendamarket> I have 3 phase power in my shed :)-
629 2010-12-15 03:47:30 <ArtForz> I have my own micro cogeneration plant (aka diesel gen replacing oil burner for central heating)
630 2010-12-15 03:48:19 <noagendamarket> is diesel generators efficient?
631 2010-12-15 03:48:26 <Lysacor> nice, helps to keep the grid usage lower, though is the diesel fuel producing a bit less expensive energy, compared to the grid at large?
632 2010-12-15 03:48:31 <ArtForz> if you use it to heat your house... yes
633 2010-12-15 03:48:36 <Lysacor> true
634 2010-12-15 03:48:48 <ArtForz> thats the whole idea about micro-cogen
635 2010-12-15 03:49:03 <ArtForz> instead of turning oil into heat, you turn oil into heat+power, and the power into heat, too
636 2010-12-15 03:49:07 <noagendamarket> move to antarctica and you could generate more
637 2010-12-15 03:49:11 <Lysacor> a lot more efficient
638 2010-12-15 03:49:16 <ArtForz> so you basically get free power out of the deal
639 2010-12-15 03:49:28 <ArtForz> well, except for the initial investment and higher maintenance of course
640 2010-12-15 03:49:39 <Lysacor> probably go from 20-30 percent efficiency into the 50-70 range?
641 2010-12-15 03:49:45 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: what's the power grid there cost per kWh?
642 2010-12-15 03:50:01 <ArtForz> about $0.30
643 2010-12-15 03:50:13 <Lysacor> yeowch
644 2010-12-15 03:50:18 <ArtForz> a modern central heating oil burner is >90% efficient, so is a micro-cogen
645 2010-12-15 03:50:29 <Lysacor> very nice!
646 2010-12-15 03:50:53 <ArtForz> of course only about 30% of the cogens output is electric
647 2010-12-15 03:50:55 <midnightmagic> holy crap. it's $0.0875 here for tier-2 power (so, more than X kWh per month, which a farm like yours would definitely put me into)
648 2010-12-15 03:51:04 <Lysacor> I wish I could 1. afford one and 2. install one in such a way that my landlord wouldn't evict me on the spot
649 2010-12-15 03:51:33 <midnightmagic> and that's CAD, too..
650 2010-12-15 03:51:37 <Lysacor> ;;bc,mtgox
651 2010-12-15 03:51:37 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2468,"low":0.21,"vol":10188,"buy":0.2152,"sell":0.2459,"last":0.2467}}
652 2010-12-15 03:51:45 <ArtForz> benefits of owning your own house ;)
653 2010-12-15 03:52:00 <ArtForz> yep, canada has about the cheapest power in the world
654 2010-12-15 03:52:32 <Lysacor> average here where I live is $0.10
655 2010-12-15 03:52:45 <aximilation_> funny you mention that, my workplace just relocated some web servers to canada partly due to the power reasons
656 2010-12-15 03:53:00 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
657 2010-12-15 03:53:40 <midnightmagic> monthly cost for one of your 1.3KW at-the-plug machines is ~$82/month..
658 2010-12-15 03:54:01 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: did you order the new machines because you want to stay ahead of the influx of GPU miners?
659 2010-12-15 03:54:15 <ArtForz> not really
660 2010-12-15 03:54:21 <midnightmagic> you're doing it for fun aren't you
661 2010-12-15 03:54:29 <ArtForz> yup, pretty much
662 2010-12-15 03:54:30 <kiba> for fun and profit!
663 2010-12-15 03:54:43 <ArtForz> well, is there a better reason? I like challenges :P
664 2010-12-15 03:54:56 <Lysacor> imagine if you could Crossfire all those things into one big array of cards... wow...
665 2010-12-15 03:55:02 <noagendamarket> lol
666 2010-12-15 03:55:10 <midnightmagic> No, no better reason. :)
667 2010-12-15 03:55:11 <noagendamarket> cloud server?
668 2010-12-15 03:55:32 <ArtForz> hrrrm, looks like theres another option
669 2010-12-15 03:55:58 <jb55> I have been trying to compile bitcoin on ec2 gpu cluster instances with no avail
670 2010-12-15 03:56:00 <jb55> damn centos
671 2010-12-15 03:56:09 mndrix_ has joined
672 2010-12-15 03:56:11 <ArtForz> older FPGAs arent worth it, but xilinx spartan6 looks like it could be a winner for hash/W
673 2010-12-15 03:56:28 <Lysacor> jb55:wonder how quick they would boot you off of EC2 if you managed it?
674 2010-12-15 03:56:33 <ArtForz> still sucks for hash/$ though
675 2010-12-15 03:56:40 <midnightmagic> I would love to see a bunch of machines pay for themselves while I do R&D on distributed computing.. it would mean I could extend out my reach.. to.. well beyond what I thought would be within my reach as a hobbiest.
676 2010-12-15 03:57:09 <kiba> I make more money drawing than coding :(
677 2010-12-15 03:57:14 <ArtForz> so... copacobana with spartan6 anyone?
678 2010-12-15 03:57:16 <jb55> Lysacor: I dont see why they would, that's what they're for. number crunching.
679 2010-12-15 03:57:19 <kiba> nobody want to play with my wwww.soulplaying.com :(
680 2010-12-15 03:57:32 <kiba> errr wwww.soulplaying.com
681 2010-12-15 03:57:36 <kiba> err..damn
682 2010-12-15 03:57:41 <kiba> www.soulplaying.com
683 2010-12-15 03:57:56 <noagendamarket> kiba im too lazy for that lol
684 2010-12-15 03:58:22 <kiba> don't play an MMO, play a real life RPG!
685 2010-12-15 03:58:31 <kiba> play your very soul!
686 2010-12-15 03:58:50 <Lysacor> so I am not selling my soul for a couple of trinkets right? :P
687 2010-12-15 03:58:59 <Lysacor> not that I had one to begin with :P
688 2010-12-15 03:59:01 <kiba> no, you're playing as yourself
689 2010-12-15 03:59:04 <midnightmagic> well the virtex almost certainly aren't worth it.
690 2010-12-15 03:59:07 <kiba> in improving your life skill
691 2010-12-15 03:59:25 <kiba> it's only like 3 bucks a month...
692 2010-12-15 03:59:42 <ArtForz> 120 spartan6-sx45 should be able to get about 4.5Ghash/s using ~400W
693 2010-12-15 04:00:36 <ArtForz> beats 5970s by about a factor of 6 on hash/W
694 2010-12-15 04:00:41 <jb55> are there FPGA hobby kits? :D
695 2010-12-15 04:00:46 <ArtForz> yup
696 2010-12-15 04:00:50 <ArtForz> and horribly loses on hash/$
697 2010-12-15 04:00:58 <ArtForz> the chips alone are ~$6.5k
698 2010-12-15 04:00:59 <aximilation_> kiba do you run your own server there?
699 2010-12-15 04:01:30 <midnightmagic> you can get cheap spartan 6..!
700 2010-12-15 04:01:34 <ArtForz> add custom PCBs, PSU, custom case ... 9 grand
701 2010-12-15 04:01:40 <jb55> ouch
702 2010-12-15 04:02:11 <ArtForz> well, it's also about as fast as 8 5970s
703 2010-12-15 04:02:16 <Lysacor> whew... a bit too rich for me
704 2010-12-15 04:02:21 <kiba> run what server?
705 2010-12-15 04:02:29 <kiba> mining is just a side income
706 2010-12-15 04:02:38 <ArtForz> so roughly half the hash/$ of 5970s
707 2010-12-15 04:02:44 <ArtForz> but 5x better hash/W
708 2010-12-15 04:02:58 <aximilation_> soulplaying
709 2010-12-15 04:03:00 <kiba> does that mean you will sell 5970s for bitcoins?
710 2010-12-15 04:03:02 <ArtForz> but at least you dont need to order crazy amounts of em to get a decent price
711 2010-12-15 04:03:06 <kiba> aximilation_: no, I used heroku
712 2010-12-15 04:03:10 <midnightmagic> $14,280 for 120 spartan-6 XA6SLX75-2FGG484I from digikey. what part number are you looking at art?
713 2010-12-15 04:03:28 <aximilation_> ah, I was going to say you should really catch the www and direct it to the non-www
714 2010-12-15 04:03:42 <ArtForz> you're checking out the -75s
715 2010-12-15 04:03:55 <ArtForz> XC6SLX45-2CSG324C
716 2010-12-15 04:03:55 <kiba> don't you mean non-www to www?
717 2010-12-15 04:04:11 <ArtForz> digikey 122-1673-ND
718 2010-12-15 04:04:24 <aximilation_> yea, or that
719 2010-12-15 04:04:35 <Lysacor> thinking about the mtgox market... with all of those standing ASK orders for .32+ in 1000 coin blocks... that might potentially stunt the market
720 2010-12-15 04:05:11 <Lysacor> but, not knowing the historical market depth, it is an uneducated opinion at best
721 2010-12-15 04:05:13 <midnightmagic> that's half the onboard logic units.. but cheaper overall. you always seem to find the maximum economic wins. LOL how long have you been looking for fpga anyway? :)
722 2010-12-15 04:05:21 <ArtForz> not too long
723 2010-12-15 04:05:37 <ArtForz> but I was looking at FPGA to prototype my ASIC design in hardware
724 2010-12-15 04:06:06 <ArtForz> turns out my VHDL synthesizes to something with decent performance on virtex5 and spartan6
725 2010-12-15 04:06:06 <Lysacor> kiba: next paycheck if I am looking in a good position, I may try your site, couldn't hurt
726 2010-12-15 04:06:37 <midnightmagic> can I be your disciple?
727 2010-12-15 04:07:16 devon_hillard has joined
728 2010-12-15 04:07:22 <Lysacor> Art, be careful, looks like you are inadvertantly starting your own religion here :P
729 2010-12-15 04:07:30 EvanR has joined
730 2010-12-15 04:07:50 <EvanR> i just heard about bitcoin today. how long has this operation been going on?
731 2010-12-15 04:08:01 <kiba> operation? what operation?
732 2010-12-15 04:08:10 <EvanR> bitcoin
733 2010-12-15 04:08:18 <kiba> bitcoin is not an operation
734 2010-12-15 04:08:25 <midnightmagic> it's a religion!
735 2010-12-15 04:08:28 <EvanR> lol
736 2010-12-15 04:08:52 <EvanR> or is it dead, in the final stages and i just came in at the end
737 2010-12-15 04:08:55 <mndrix_> EvanR: first block was in Jan 2009, I think: http://blockexplorer.com/b/0
738 2010-12-15 04:08:55 <ArtForz> it's a movement!
739 2010-12-15 04:08:56 <Lysacor> From what I know, it has been going on for some time
740 2010-12-15 04:09:04 <Lysacor> nowhere near dead
741 2010-12-15 04:09:08 <Lysacor> very much growing
742 2010-12-15 04:09:11 <kiba> it's been growing
743 2010-12-15 04:09:18 <kiba> December is going to smash record!
744 2010-12-15 04:09:21 <midnightmagic> And not the kind that you flush!
745 2010-12-15 04:09:36 <kiba> oh wait, we already did
746 2010-12-15 04:09:41 <EvanR> i tried to invent this a few months ago
747 2010-12-15 04:09:45 <ArtForz> merely pining for the fjords *ducks*
748 2010-12-15 04:09:46 <kiba> but we will smash more record!
749 2010-12-15 04:09:50 <EvanR> when reading about digital signatures
750 2010-12-15 04:10:00 <EvanR> i didnt get anywhere
751 2010-12-15 04:10:08 <kiba> not suprising
752 2010-12-15 04:10:10 <EvanR> ive been looking for a place to store my money
753 2010-12-15 04:10:14 <EvanR> i dont trust banks
754 2010-12-15 04:10:20 <ArtForz> the real genius of bitcoin is the distributed timestamping system
755 2010-12-15 04:10:39 <kiba> oh yeah
756 2010-12-15 04:10:42 <midnightmagic> not really a great economy to store large volumes of cash in.. :)
757 2010-12-15 04:10:43 <kiba> Satoshi is really a girl
758 2010-12-15 04:11:02 <kiba> and her name is not Satoshi
759 2010-12-15 04:11:16 <midnightmagic> Shhh.. don't tell him all the secrets right away.
760 2010-12-15 04:11:20 <ArtForz> and using mining/transaction fees as an incentive to keep enough CPU power on it
761 2010-12-15 04:11:21 <jb55> EvanR: same, right now I have my wallet inside of a truecrypt volume sitting in my dropbox :D
762 2010-12-15 04:11:28 <EvanR> lol
763 2010-12-15 04:11:34 <midnightmagic> First he has to punch his fingers through the gravel for six months!
764 2010-12-15 04:12:00 <Lysacor> No, no, it is walk through glass covered in margarita salt...
765 2010-12-15 04:12:03 <midnightmagic> Err.. I mean mine fruitlessly on his GPU for six months!
766 2010-12-15 04:12:04 <EvanR> i looked at the server, looks like an iphone app waiting to happen
767 2010-12-15 04:12:05 redengin has joined
768 2010-12-15 04:12:07 <Lysacor> broken glass
769 2010-12-15 04:12:23 <kiba> what server, EvanR?
770 2010-12-15 04:12:28 <EvanR> bitcoind
771 2010-12-15 04:13:04 <Lysacor> possible, but I doubt the carriers would like 8333 traffic trickling into the network :P
772 2010-12-15 04:13:12 <midnightmagic> maybe as a controller via the JSON interface! that would be kind of neat. just make sure that other people with the app can move bitcoins to one another without manually typing in long strings of bitcoin addresses and you're good!
773 2010-12-15 04:13:20 <EvanR> Lysacor: it would be port 80
774 2010-12-15 04:13:31 <EvanR> er
775 2010-12-15 04:13:38 <EvanR> https whatever it is
776 2010-12-15 04:13:42 <Lysacor> 443
777 2010-12-15 04:14:01 <Lysacor> :)
778 2010-12-15 04:14:12 <EvanR> midnightmagic: nicknames to the rescue?
779 2010-12-15 04:14:17 <aximilation_> EvanR: I just set up bitcoind about half an hour or so ago myself
780 2010-12-15 04:14:30 <kiba> newbies.
781 2010-12-15 04:14:35 <EvanR> i was about to, but realized i didnt have a dedicated server
782 2010-12-15 04:14:41 <EvanR> and the server i was on wasnt really mine
783 2010-12-15 04:14:44 <EvanR> so i stopped
784 2010-12-15 04:14:48 <aximilation_> run it on a home computer :-D
785 2010-12-15 04:14:54 <EvanR> i actually dont have interne
786 2010-12-15 04:15:00 <EvanR> im stealing wireless
787 2010-12-15 04:15:07 <aximilation_> that works
788 2010-12-15 04:15:09 <kiba> I need to do something about backup and encrypting my wallet
789 2010-12-15 04:15:12 <kiba> really paranoid
790 2010-12-15 04:15:15 <EvanR> bitcoin still works
791 2010-12-15 04:15:21 <Lysacor> you are "borrowing", stealing indicates malicious intent :P
792 2010-12-15 04:15:25 <aximilation_> might be more difficult to forward 8333, but hey
793 2010-12-15 04:15:31 <Lysacor> borrowing without intent of return...
794 2010-12-15 04:15:37 <aximilation_> "using"
795 2010-12-15 04:15:40 <EvanR> stealing indicates ironic abuse of loaded words
796 2010-12-15 04:15:56 <EvanR> sharing!
797 2010-12-15 04:15:59 <aximilation_> neither borrowing nor stealing could apply, as there is no way you could give the internet back
798 2010-12-15 04:16:01 <Lysacor> nice!
799 2010-12-15 04:16:05 <ArtForz> how can you steal wireless?
800 2010-12-15 04:16:21 <kiba> ArtForz: you torrent through it
801 2010-12-15 04:16:29 <kiba> depriving the owner of his bandwidth!
802 2010-12-15 04:16:40 <ArtForz> aka "hey, I didn't ask for my neighbor to broadcast his radio waves all over my place"
803 2010-12-15 04:16:44 <Lysacor> yeah, saturate the pipe... that is where QoS comes in handy :P
804 2010-12-15 04:16:46 <aximilation_> it's really not much different than "stealing" music from an open air concert by listening from outside the grounds
805 2010-12-15 04:16:50 <Lysacor> true
806 2010-12-15 04:16:54 <EvanR> so am i reading this dashboard correctly, 'we are on block 93691' ?
807 2010-12-15 04:17:02 <ArtForz> ;;bc,blocks
808 2010-12-15 04:17:02 <gribble> 97613
809 2010-12-15 04:17:11 <EvanR> i am out of date?
810 2010-12-15 04:17:12 <Lysacor> actually, you are a few blocks behind, a bit more to download
811 2010-12-15 04:17:15 <EvanR> or this isnt a global number
812 2010-12-15 04:17:20 <ArtForz> no, it's a global number
813 2010-12-15 04:17:24 <Lysacor> nope, globally it is 97613
814 2010-12-15 04:17:28 * kiba burps
815 2010-12-15 04:17:39 * aximilation_ wafts the smell away
816 2010-12-15 04:17:39 <Lysacor> every client shares the same block chain database
817 2010-12-15 04:17:40 <kiba> grow, bitcoin, grow!
818 2010-12-15 04:17:42 <EvanR> is 100000 a special milestone or something?
819 2010-12-15 04:17:43 <Lysacor> it is shared between clients
820 2010-12-15 04:17:49 <kiba> no
821 2010-12-15 04:17:52 <EvanR> ok
822 2010-12-15 04:17:53 <ArtForz> if you don't want people "stealing" your WiFi, turn on encryption or get a lot of tin foil.
823 2010-12-15 04:18:05 <aximilation_> "Unauthorized Use"
824 2010-12-15 04:18:09 <Lysacor> tinfoil hats!!
825 2010-12-15 04:18:26 <ArtForz> well, *someone* set it up as a free-for-all
826 2010-12-15 04:18:27 <EvanR> also ironic, the guys password is "money money"
827 2010-12-15 04:18:38 <ArtForz> lol
828 2010-12-15 04:18:45 <aximilation_> password for what?
829 2010-12-15 04:18:48 <EvanR> wireless
830 2010-12-15 04:19:00 <aximilation_> how'd you come across the password?
831 2010-12-15 04:19:10 <EvanR> not hard to guess
832 2010-12-15 04:19:14 <aximilation_> lol
833 2010-12-15 04:19:20 <kiba> he love money?
834 2010-12-15 04:19:34 <ArtForz> btw, huge fuckup of a german ISP, their router/APs have WPA2 turned on by default, turns out the default WPA2 key contains a whopping 24 bits of entropy
835 2010-12-15 04:19:37 * EvanR puts on his nintendo powergloves and flies through the movie hackers
836 2010-12-15 04:19:49 <aximilation_> in that case you're in a slightly "risier" position as it's not completely open to the public
837 2010-12-15 04:19:50 <EvanR> he told me the password
838 2010-12-15 04:20:03 <aximilation_> oh
839 2010-12-15 04:20:06 <ArtForz> well, then its not stealing now, is it?
840 2010-12-15 04:20:11 <aximilation_> nvm then, telling is permission then
841 2010-12-15 04:20:12 <EvanR> never was
842 2010-12-15 04:20:15 <aximilation_> or close enough
843 2010-12-15 04:20:31 <Lysacor> backtrack is a wonderful tool...
844 2010-12-15 04:20:37 <EvanR> it says 1khash/s
845 2010-12-15 04:20:39 <aximilation_> you know this whole discussion started because you said you were stealing wireless...
846 2010-12-15 04:20:51 <Lysacor> great for wifi key discovery and breaking
847 2010-12-15 04:20:56 <ArtForz> btw, 24dBi parabolics are fun
848 2010-12-15 04:21:09 <Lysacor> and attacking other people's AP's
849 2010-12-15 04:21:31 <Lysacor> what range you manage to get on it Art?
850 2010-12-15 04:21:56 <EvanR> aximilation_: not my fault
851 2010-12-15 04:21:56 <ArtForz> we got about 5 miles out of it with direct LOS
852 2010-12-15 04:22:04 <EvanR> i think i got all the blocks
853 2010-12-15 04:22:08 <Lysacor> very nice!
854 2010-12-15 04:22:12 <EvanR> 97614
855 2010-12-15 04:22:28 <Lysacor> yep, you are caught up now EvanR
856 2010-12-15 04:22:31 <EvanR> 474 khash/s
857 2010-12-15 04:22:40 <ArtForz> and the transmitters turned down to lowest output
858 2010-12-15 04:22:49 <ArtForz> stupid ETSI EIRP rules
859 2010-12-15 04:23:16 <EvanR> its the code of the radio operator, use lowest power necessary to carry out communication ;)
860 2010-12-15 04:23:53 <Lysacor> true, but ETSI... FCC... they all over-regulate the spectrum to some degree...
861 2010-12-15 04:23:57 <EvanR> ignore numbers stations and best of hip hop and r&b FM stations
862 2010-12-15 04:24:01 <ArtForz> yeah, but seriously, 1W EIRP?
863 2010-12-15 04:24:50 <Lysacor> imagine if you could go 50 percent higher, what the results would be
864 2010-12-15 04:24:57 <EvanR> what is this generate coins this, does it randomly give you 1 coin? or some other amount? how often?
865 2010-12-15 04:25:01 <Lysacor> without risk of fines...
866 2010-12-15 04:25:04 <EvanR> this->thing
867 2010-12-15 04:25:08 <ArtForz> 50 percent? why not an order of magnitude
868 2010-12-15 04:25:14 <Lysacor> mmmm true
869 2010-12-15 04:25:27 <EvanR> 10W is insane
870 2010-12-15 04:25:31 <ArtForz> 10W EIRP on a 23dBi isn't exactly a lot of output
871 2010-12-15 04:26:10 <ArtForz> take line and connector losses into account and you're looking at 100mW tx output
872 2010-12-15 04:26:16 <Lysacor> so, bitcoin generates coins when you solve a given hash of a block, as time goes on the number of coins earned by solving blocks are less and less, (bitcoin.org details it all)
873 2010-12-15 04:26:31 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
874 2010-12-15 04:26:36 <Lysacor> as the number of blocks in the collective block chain increases
875 2010-12-15 04:26:38 <ArtForz> yep, first halving should be late 2012/early 2013
876 2010-12-15 04:26:49 <Lysacor> right now you get 50 per solved block
877 2010-12-15 04:26:57 <EvanR> oh
878 2010-12-15 04:27:17 <Lysacor> BUT, you can join a pooled mining effort
879 2010-12-15 04:27:35 <Lysacor> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2027.0
880 2010-12-15 04:27:39 <EvanR> all nodes are solving simultaneously, and whoever gets there first gets the cash?
881 2010-12-15 04:27:44 <EvanR> then you start over?
882 2010-12-15 04:27:46 <Lysacor> yep
883 2010-12-15 04:28:08 <EvanR> cant they solve in parallel? or would that be defeating the purpose somehow
884 2010-12-15 04:28:55 <Lysacor> the pooled mining effort combines the hashing power of multiple systems, to increase the likelihood of the group solving the block. As that one is setup, you get a number of coins (and they can be in decimal values) based on the amount of hash work contributed to the pool
885 2010-12-15 04:29:16 <Lysacor> the more you do compared to the rest, the larger your share of the block solved
886 2010-12-15 04:29:26 <Lysacor> the pooled mining effort has solved two blocks thus far
887 2010-12-15 04:29:31 <MT`AwAy> and your bitcoin client will throw away as soon as it can any sub-cent coin you've earned
888 2010-12-15 04:29:37 <EvanR> thats a question i was having, so 0.30 is a valid number of coins?
889 2010-12-15 04:29:38 <Lysacor> exactly
890 2010-12-15 04:29:45 <Lysacor> it certainly is
891 2010-12-15 04:29:59 <Lysacor> there are other ways to get bitcoins
892 2010-12-15 04:30:08 <EvanR> i think its also valid in json, but in a javascript engine it wont be represented as that
893 2010-12-15 04:30:13 <Lysacor> namely through trade, through a site like bitfaucet
894 2010-12-15 04:30:15 <doublec> MT`AwAy, the bitcoin client doesn't throw away sub-cent coins
895 2010-12-15 04:30:16 <Lysacor> etc... etc...
896 2010-12-15 04:30:26 <ArtForz> doublec: it does
897 2010-12-15 04:30:27 jcw9 has quit (Quit: leaving)
898 2010-12-15 04:30:28 <MT`AwAy> doublec: it sure does, sends them as "fee"
899 2010-12-15 04:30:39 mndrix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
900 2010-12-15 04:30:51 <aximilation_> I got some from bitfaucet :-D
901 2010-12-15 04:31:11 <doublec> So if I have 0.001 sitting in my account it will vanish without me doing anything?
902 2010-12-15 04:31:29 <MT`AwAy> doublec: if you send coins to someone, the 0.001 part will be added to "in" automatically, but not to "out"
903 2010-12-15 04:31:52 <doublec> why does it do that?
904 2010-12-15 04:31:56 <MT`AwAy> so anyone who takes your transaction in and solves the block will get your 0.001
905 2010-12-15 04:32:12 <EvanR> lol free bitcoins
906 2010-12-15 04:32:14 <MT`AwAy> doublec: ask Satoshi, but I think it may have to do with the inital sub-cent transaction floods?
907 2010-12-15 04:32:40 <doublec> so as long as I never send anything in my wallet then the subcent generated transactions can add up?
908 2010-12-15 04:32:48 <MT`AwAy> doublec: yep
909 2010-12-15 04:32:52 <Lysacor> www.mtgox.com is one of a few bitcoin investment sites
910 2010-12-15 04:32:54 <doublec> That's more of an argument that puddinpop should change the server to round to 0.01
911 2010-12-15 04:32:54 <ArtForz> well, if your tx had a sub-cent output, it'd cost 0.01 in f ees
912 2010-12-15 04:32:54 <MT`AwAy> and once you reach a cent, it'll stay
913 2010-12-15 04:33:10 <ArtForz> whats better? paying < 0.01 or paying 0.01 ?
914 2010-12-15 04:33:47 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: he can just keep accumulating sub cents until it gets to 0.01
915 2010-12-15 04:33:55 <EvanR> sub cent makes sense
916 2010-12-15 04:34:05 <MT`AwAy> or until someone modifies the client to not throw away subcents
917 2010-12-15 04:34:09 <ArtForz> well, if your client uses it as a input, it has reason to
918 2010-12-15 04:34:19 <EvanR> how hard is it to make your own client?
919 2010-12-15 04:34:31 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: I'm doing it, and it's not that simple
920 2010-12-15 04:34:35 <ArtForz> if you have 0.075 and send 0.05 you keep the 0.025
921 2010-12-15 04:34:46 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: actually, you don't
922 2010-12-15 04:35:02 <MT`AwAy> if you have 0.075 and send 0.05, you'll keep 0.02
923 2010-12-15 04:35:14 <ArtForz> err, the throw-away-subcent code only kicks in if a output is < 0.01
924 2010-12-15 04:35:15 <nanotube> looks like there's need for a patch to undo the throwing away of subcent bitcoins...
925 2010-12-15 04:35:15 <EvanR> i got 0.05 coins!
926 2010-12-15 04:35:16 <MT`AwAy> and 0.005 are added as "fee" to the transaction
927 2010-12-15 04:35:23 <aximilation_> is this the gui client, or does it apply to bitcoind as well?
928 2010-12-15 04:35:55 * MT`AwAy checks blockexplorer to find one of those transactions again
929 2010-12-15 04:35:57 <aximilation_> since my balance shows 0.05000000
930 2010-12-15 04:36:32 <Lysacor> brb gonna put my computer on a kill-a-watt meter and see what the damage to my electric bill is gonna be...
931 2010-12-15 04:36:51 Zarutian has joined
932 2010-12-15 04:36:57 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
933 2010-12-15 04:37:10 * MT`AwAy slaps theymos
934 2010-12-15 04:37:18 <EvanR> i got coins from 'someone' it says unconfirmed. im 'pretty sure' its bitfaucet. how do i tell the client to identify that address as that?
935 2010-12-15 04:37:30 <MT`AwAy> found one
936 2010-12-15 04:37:36 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/19daf081d3139e8fa11a2ae6467098312f1e86fe3a9e9e8b81a26e68b0f4f145 <- 50 btc sent, the input also includes subcents
937 2010-12-15 04:37:38 <EvanR> oh thats not what unconfirmed means
938 2010-12-15 04:37:50 <ArtForz> yes
939 2010-12-15 04:37:53 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: you need to wait, the transaction will get confirmed
940 2010-12-15 04:37:59 <ArtForz> and the 2nd output would'Ve been < 0.01
941 2010-12-15 04:38:06 CyanDynamo has joined
942 2010-12-15 04:38:41 <MT`AwAy> the bitcoin client could have just kept the sub-cent part on the initial wallet
943 2010-12-15 04:38:42 <ArtForz> if he had sent 45, he'd have gotten 5.0049... in change back
944 2010-12-15 04:38:49 <MT`AwAy> since it doesn't systematically empty addresses
945 2010-12-15 04:39:25 <ArtForz> no it couldnt have
946 2010-12-15 04:39:43 <ArtForz> that was from a 50.0049... generation
947 2010-12-15 04:39:59 <ArtForz> if it only has that 1 tx, and you want to send 50, whats it suppsoed to do?
948 2010-12-15 04:40:19 <ArtForz> a) send 50, send 0.0049 back to yourself, needs a 0.01 fee
949 2010-12-15 04:40:22 <MT`AwAy> just send 50.00000000, and let the 0.0049... part on the address
950 2010-12-15 04:40:28 <ArtForz> b) send 50, throw away the 0.0049 as fee
951 2010-12-15 04:40:31 <MT`AwAy> s/let/keep/
952 2010-12-15 04:40:37 <ArtForz> it's a SINGLE TRANSACTION
953 2010-12-15 04:40:46 <ArtForz> you can't KEEP part of an output
954 2010-12-15 04:40:55 <ArtForz> you have to use the whole output
955 2010-12-15 04:40:56 <MT`AwAy> you can keep part of the input on the address
956 2010-12-15 04:41:02 <MT`AwAy> nothing requires the "in" address to be emptied each time
957 2010-12-15 04:41:07 <EvanR> what does 'throw away' mean, lost to oblivion? or sender keeps it
958 2010-12-15 04:41:12 <ArtForz> ARGH
959 2010-12-15 04:41:16 <ArtForz> the input was this: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/7ff761d4749f64c41d1ba7018841b863a0f1b56fe1d62a8369ed452216c421ab#o0
960 2010-12-15 04:41:16 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: whoever solves the block gets it
961 2010-12-15 04:41:28 <ArtForz> SINGLE OUTPUT, 50.0049...
962 2010-12-15 04:41:35 <EvanR> thats strange
963 2010-12-15 04:41:35 <ArtForz> user requests a send of 50 to some address
964 2010-12-15 04:41:47 <ArtForz> so whats his client supposed to do then?
965 2010-12-15 04:42:04 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: what I say is to /not/ inclue the 0.0049.. part in the input
966 2010-12-15 04:42:09 <MT`AwAy> include*
967 2010-12-15 04:42:10 <ArtForz> you can't do that
968 2010-12-15 04:42:13 <MT`AwAy> you can
969 2010-12-15 04:42:22 <ArtForz> no you can't
970 2010-12-15 04:42:31 <ArtForz> once a output is used, it's marked as spent
971 2010-12-15 04:42:37 <ArtForz> read the fine code
972 2010-12-15 04:43:03 <nanotube> ArtForz: so if even one of the outputs of a single tx is <0.01, the whole tx requires a fee?
973 2010-12-15 04:43:13 <ArtForz> yep
974 2010-12-15 04:43:14 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I'm talking about the input
975 2010-12-15 04:43:27 <MT`AwAy> if you got 500 bitcoins on address X, you can either put the whole thing as input, or only a part
976 2010-12-15 04:43:32 <nanotube> ArtForz: i guess in that case it's fine. since it doesn't make sense to spend .01 in order to save <0.1
977 2010-12-15 04:43:33 <EvanR> bitfaucet is funny. TANSTAAFL was almost violated. until i realized you cant get lunch on 0.05 coins
978 2010-12-15 04:43:35 <MT`AwAy> the remaining balance stays on X
979 2010-12-15 04:43:36 <nanotube> <.01 i mean
980 2010-12-15 04:43:46 <nanotube> EvanR: haha yea
981 2010-12-15 04:43:47 <ArtForz> the INPUT to the 50+0.0049fee TX was a SINGLE 50.0049 OUTPUT
982 2010-12-15 04:44:16 <MT`AwAy> oops
983 2010-12-15 04:45:01 <ArtForz> if you have multiple outputs to the same pubkey available, you can obviously use only one of them
984 2010-12-15 04:45:02 <MT`AwAy> forgot input reference tx
985 2010-12-15 04:45:09 <EvanR> how long does it take to confirm?
986 2010-12-15 04:45:17 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: ~1 hour
987 2010-12-15 04:45:21 <EvanR> >_<
988 2010-12-15 04:45:29 <ArtForz> one or more I mean
989 2010-12-15 04:45:30 <MT`AwAy> but you can use your coins with only one confirmation
990 2010-12-15 04:45:30 <EvanR> it says 3/unconfirmed now
991 2010-12-15 04:45:37 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: you can already use the coins then
992 2010-12-15 04:45:45 <EvanR> what does the number mean
993 2010-12-15 04:45:57 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: it's the number of blocks after your transaction
994 2010-12-15 04:46:13 <ArtForz> and iirc the current client code only throws away < 0.01 amounts if it'd otherwise have to send them back to itself as change, incurring the 0.01 fee
995 2010-12-15 04:46:16 <MT`AwAy> the more blocks there are, the more you know the transaction is legit
996 2010-12-15 04:46:51 <ArtForz> so you can have a tx of 50.0049 -> 45 + 5.0049 change
997 2010-12-15 04:47:00 <EvanR> is there an arbitrary threshold where it 'gives up' and says confirmed
998 2010-12-15 04:47:01 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
999 2010-12-15 04:47:06 <ArtForz> I dont think it's smart enough to combine multiple sub-cent containign inputs to make a whole cent
1000 2010-12-15 04:47:16 <aximilation_> anyone work with the market like mtgox?
1001 2010-12-15 04:47:23 <aximilation_> or use it to buy/sell?
1002 2010-12-15 04:47:44 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: I guess it's still better to keep subcent until bitcoin becomes smart enough :)
1003 2010-12-15 04:47:52 <ArtForz> so if you have 50.006 and 50.005 and send 50, it uses one of them and throws away the 0.005 or 6
1004 2010-12-15 04:47:56 <aximilation_> or do you do most of your saving my mining?
1005 2010-12-15 04:48:05 <EvanR> what happens if you 'open' your wallet on multiple computers at once
1006 2010-12-15 04:48:12 <aximilation_> s/my/by
1007 2010-12-15 04:48:19 <ArtForz> instead of doing (50.005 + 50.006) -> 50 + 50.011 change
1008 2010-12-15 04:48:19 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: you see your balance multiple times, but can use it only once
1009 2010-12-15 04:48:26 <EvanR> then what
1010 2010-12-15 04:48:37 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: then you can't send more coins
1011 2010-12-15 04:48:44 <EvanR> on either?
1012 2010-12-15 04:48:44 <MT`AwAy> because in reality you don't have more
1013 2010-12-15 04:48:56 darrob has joined
1014 2010-12-15 04:49:41 <EvanR> will it segfault, signal alert ERROR, or explain thoroughly the problem ;)
1015 2010-12-15 04:50:14 <MT`AwAy> I think the transaction will just disappear or never get confirmed, I'm not sure (didn't look into that yet)
1016 2010-12-15 04:50:26 <MT`AwAy> one thing sure is the fact the network will not accept that
1017 2010-12-15 04:50:50 <ArtForz> the balance on the other nodes shoudl disappear when they see the tx in a block
1018 2010-12-15 04:51:02 <EvanR> really? thats cool
1019 2010-12-15 04:51:02 <ArtForz> if they try to send a tx before, network will just drop it as a double.-spend
1020 2010-12-15 04:51:18 Lysacor has joined
1021 2010-12-15 04:51:28 <annodomini> So I've solved my first block. Now what to spend my ฿50 on?
1022 2010-12-15 04:51:45 <Lysacor> ok, so my wallet won't be burning, very nice! there are plenty of places to go :P
1023 2010-12-15 04:51:49 <EvanR> when i got the bitfauct coins, it changed my address. im confused
1024 2010-12-15 04:52:05 <MT`AwAy> annodomini: you can send sms on https://smsz.net/ for example :D
1025 2010-12-15 04:52:08 <EvanR> now i have two receiving addresses
1026 2010-12-15 04:52:14 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: you can have as many addresses as you want
1027 2010-12-15 04:52:23 <Lysacor> your address book allows you to create new addresses, and your address book let's you choose what address you want to receive on
1028 2010-12-15 04:52:25 <EvanR> are they all for one balance?
1029 2010-12-15 04:52:27 <Lysacor> it allows you to be anonymous
1030 2010-12-15 04:52:29 <MT`AwAy> annodomini: you can also donate for the EFF
1031 2010-12-15 04:52:31 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: yes
1032 2010-12-15 04:52:35 <EvanR> ok
1033 2010-12-15 04:52:45 <EvanR> but i can also reuse addresses
1034 2010-12-15 04:52:48 <nanotube> ArtForz: well, sounds relatively reasonable.
1035 2010-12-15 04:52:55 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: yes, but not reusing addresses is better
1036 2010-12-15 04:53:04 <EvanR> why?
1037 2010-12-15 04:53:08 <annodomini> MT`AwAy: True. Just donated to them in $ a couple days ago, and might again tonight via the Humble Indie Bundle.
1038 2010-12-15 04:53:11 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: it protects your privacy
1039 2010-12-15 04:53:20 <EvanR> hmm.
1040 2010-12-15 04:53:26 <EvanR> yes
1041 2010-12-15 04:53:27 <EvanR> but
1042 2010-12-15 04:53:38 <MT`AwAy> and whoever's giving bitcoins to you's privacy too
1043 2010-12-15 04:53:41 <nanotube> EvanR: there's a thread on the forum about 'pros and cons of reusing addresses'. read it.
1044 2010-12-15 04:53:47 <EvanR> ok
1045 2010-12-15 04:54:15 <MT`AwAy> also you can create addresses specifically for something (for example on my site, each order gets its own bitcoin address so when people pay, I know which order they paid for)
1046 2010-12-15 04:55:00 <EvanR> seems like id lose track without labels
1047 2010-12-15 04:55:23 <EvanR> i guess i could name each one as they are used
1048 2010-12-15 04:56:03 * EvanR names his first address 'from bitfaucet'
1049 2010-12-15 04:56:23 * ArtForz names his first address bob
1050 2010-12-15 04:56:46 <MT`AwAy> I guess when you generate coins you end using one address per generated block too
1051 2010-12-15 04:57:05 <EvanR> when address?
1052 2010-12-15 04:57:10 <EvanR> erm
1053 2010-12-15 04:57:12 <EvanR> which address
1054 2010-12-15 04:57:15 Diablo-D3 has joined
1055 2010-12-15 04:57:30 <EvanR> the one in the box?
1056 2010-12-15 04:57:59 <ArtForz> extra credit for anyone who got the Titan AE reference
1057 2010-12-15 04:59:04 <nanotube> not me... no extra credit for nanotube :(
1058 2010-12-15 04:59:23 <EvanR> is there a mastercard/paypal blessed website where people can send or donate money to someones bitcoin ?
1059 2010-12-15 04:59:28 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yes, every block gen has an address in it, which by default is a new unused address. (though it doesn't have to be)
1060 2010-12-15 04:59:54 <nanotube> EvanR: what does mastercard have to do with donating bitcoins?
1061 2010-12-15 05:00:06 <EvanR> most people dont have bitcoins to send or donate
1062 2010-12-15 05:00:29 <EvanR> they have usd or euros or something
1063 2010-12-15 05:00:41 <noagendamarket> bitcoingateway for credit cards
1064 2010-12-15 05:00:55 <nanotube> EvanR: --^ bitcoingateway.com you can use cc to buy btc
1065 2010-12-15 05:01:17 <nanotube> EvanR: or you can deposit to mtgox.com via bank wire....
1066 2010-12-15 05:01:30 <nanotube> or you can trade for paypal and other various and sundry things on #bitcoin-otc
1067 2010-12-15 05:01:48 <EvanR> otc sounds more like it
1068 2010-12-15 05:01:54 <EvanR> hmm
1069 2010-12-15 05:02:24 <nanotube> well, join the channel, and have fun. :)
1070 2010-12-15 05:02:26 <EvanR> so someone paying with bitcoins must first set it up and exchange for it first
1071 2010-12-15 05:02:27 <MT`AwAy> oh, btc is at 0.247 on mtgox :o
1072 2010-12-15 05:02:29 <EvanR> first
1073 2010-12-15 05:02:36 <nanotube> ;;bc,mtgox
1074 2010-12-15 05:02:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2468,"low":0.21,"vol":10149,"buy":0.2152,"sell":0.2459,"last":0.2467}}
1075 2010-12-15 05:02:46 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yea looks like someone bought some.
1076 2010-12-15 05:02:46 <EvanR> what is "vol" ?
1077 2010-12-15 05:02:49 <nanotube> volume
1078 2010-12-15 05:02:54 <EvanR> whats volume
1079 2010-12-15 05:02:54 <nanotube> last 24 hours
1080 2010-12-15 05:03:03 <nanotube> how many bitcoins were exchanged on mtgox
1081 2010-12-15 05:03:06 <EvanR> ah
1082 2010-12-15 05:03:12 <EvanR> not even google could explain that
1083 2010-12-15 05:03:18 <EvanR> too simple
1084 2010-12-15 05:03:45 <nanotube> heh... well it could be either volume or volatility
1085 2010-12-15 05:03:50 <nanotube> and the number is way too large to be volatility
1086 2010-12-15 05:03:55 <nanotube> so it must be volume. :)
1087 2010-12-15 05:04:04 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1088 2010-12-15 05:04:07 <nanotube> so you /could/ have guessed. :P
1089 2010-12-15 05:04:11 <MT`AwAy> only people used to markets will know what a normal volatility is
1090 2010-12-15 05:04:31 * MT`AwAy have no idea what volatility is
1091 2010-12-15 05:04:32 <MT`AwAy> :p
1092 2010-12-15 05:04:40 <nanotube> well... or people who know what a standard deviation for numbers in the range of .22 looks like :P
1093 2010-12-15 05:04:40 <EvanR> heres whats funny, digital data in principle can be copied exactly and be reproduced indefinitely right? yet storing money on a hard drive seems orders of magnitude more risky :S
1094 2010-12-15 05:04:59 <nanotube> EvanR: how so? just make backups.
1095 2010-12-15 05:05:06 <MT`AwAy> so volatility is stddev
1096 2010-12-15 05:05:13 <nanotube> EvanR: after all... your bank stores money on their hard drives. :)
1097 2010-12-15 05:05:16 <EvanR> you dont make backups of your wallet?
1098 2010-12-15 05:05:16 <EvanR> IRL
1099 2010-12-15 05:05:21 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1100 2010-12-15 05:05:39 <noagendamarket> the fed prints money wsith a button
1101 2010-12-15 05:05:42 <noagendamarket> lol
1102 2010-12-15 05:05:46 <EvanR> no!!!
1103 2010-12-15 05:05:46 <EvanR> lol
1104 2010-12-15 05:05:49 <nanotube> EvanR: i mean, when you store money on the hd, you make backups, so you don't lose it if your hd goes boom.
1105 2010-12-15 05:05:55 <nanotube> noagendamarket: haha
1106 2010-12-15 05:06:44 <EvanR> yes
1107 2010-12-15 05:06:44 <EvanR> i guess uploading to the internet isnt a smart move
1108 2010-12-15 05:07:07 <nanotube> EvanR: it is in fact a very smart move. as long as you encrypt your wallet first. :)
1109 2010-12-15 05:07:32 <EvanR> ah
1110 2010-12-15 05:07:36 <noagendamarket> you can email it to me and Ill store it for you lol
1111 2010-12-15 05:07:48 <noagendamarket> :)-
1112 2010-12-15 05:07:52 <EvanR> ok!
1113 2010-12-15 05:07:55 <MT`AwAy> xD
1114 2010-12-15 05:08:21 <EvanR> exchange rate around 0.250, does that mean a bitcoin is about a quarter USD or the other way around
1115 2010-12-15 05:08:47 <MT`AwAy> 1 BTC ~= 0.25 USD
1116 2010-12-15 05:08:50 <MT`AwAy> right now
1117 2010-12-15 05:09:06 <MT`AwAy> tommorow might be 1 BTC = 0.01 USD, you can't tell :p
1118 2010-12-15 05:09:12 <EvanR> haha
1119 2010-12-15 05:09:25 <EvanR> you can tell that from a volume of 10000 ?
1120 2010-12-15 05:09:42 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: there are too many unknowns
1121 2010-12-15 05:10:01 <EvanR> sounds like room for speculation!
1122 2010-12-15 05:10:06 <MT`AwAy> if someone finds a problem in bitcoin and proves that the whole concept doesn't hold, btc will suddently have no value at all
1123 2010-12-15 05:10:30 * MT`AwAy sold 100 BTC at 0.47 USD a while ago
1124 2010-12-15 05:10:41 <nanotube> or, if someone with deep pockets decides to diversify into bitcoins and puts like 20k usd in... it may be 50c/btc tomorrow.
1125 2010-12-15 05:10:42 <nanotube> heh
1126 2010-12-15 05:11:10 <EvanR> is it possible to buy that many bitcoins?
1127 2010-12-15 05:11:26 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: probably going to take a bit of time
1128 2010-12-15 05:11:29 <nanotube> EvanR: yes... see the outstanding orders on mtgox
1129 2010-12-15 05:11:48 <EvanR> ill have to checkout thissite out extensively
1130 2010-12-15 05:12:05 <nanotube> EvanR: go to bitcoincharts.com - it has a nice display of the open order book
1131 2010-12-15 05:12:18 <nanotube> if you're willing to pay up to 50c per btc, you can buy >70 thousand btc.
1132 2010-12-15 05:12:31 <nanotube> (and that's not counting the dark pool orders)
1133 2010-12-15 05:13:19 <EvanR> but theres only like 1 million total right now?
1134 2010-12-15 05:13:35 <EvanR> youd own a tenth of them ;)
1135 2010-12-15 05:14:15 <EvanR> should i be buying low? xD
1136 2010-12-15 05:14:18 <ArtForz> more like 5M total
1137 2010-12-15 05:14:56 <noagendamarket> someone is selling a house for btc
1138 2010-12-15 05:15:00 <annodomini> 4.88 M according to http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
1139 2010-12-15 05:15:18 <EvanR> damn theres a lot of bitcoin*.foos
1140 2010-12-15 05:15:54 <kiba> look like the price for bitcoin is finally going up
1141 2010-12-15 05:16:18 <annodomini> It seems like the thing to do these days; take internet business idea, add "bitcoin" to the beginning ... profit!
1142 2010-12-15 05:16:37 <EvanR> annodomini: and thats why the price is going up
1143 2010-12-15 05:16:44 <sgornick> ArtForz: I think EvanR was referring to $1 million (US) now.
1144 2010-12-15 05:16:54 <kiba> 1.2 million dollars
1145 2010-12-15 05:17:07 <EvanR> today was a special day, i think bitcoin somehow got publicity or something
1146 2010-12-15 05:17:15 <kiba> not a special day
1147 2010-12-15 05:17:20 <kiba> but a special month
1148 2010-12-15 05:17:28 <ArtForz> oh
1149 2010-12-15 05:17:32 <kiba> we got on Wikipedia, EFF promoted us, We got Wikileak and bitcoin linked
1150 2010-12-15 05:18:13 <EvanR> that would suggest independent parties decided 'the concept' was pretty good
1151 2010-12-15 05:18:37 <kiba> we're moving out of the ignorance stage
1152 2010-12-15 05:18:41 <sgornick> EvanR: But lets say you were one of those learned about it because of Wikipedia, Wikileak, EFF, PC World, etc. .... how would you, three or four days later, come into having Bitcoin in your wallet?
1153 2010-12-15 05:18:41 <kiba> to violent opposition
1154 2010-12-15 05:18:47 <kiba> once we complete violent opposite
1155 2010-12-15 05:18:50 <kiba> then it's acceptance
1156 2010-12-15 05:18:55 <EvanR> sgornick: too late i already do!
1157 2010-12-15 05:18:58 <EvanR> 0.05 ;)
1158 2010-12-15 05:19:07 <sgornick> (s) plural
1159 2010-12-15 05:19:15 <EvanR> i guess continue to generate blocks
1160 2010-12-15 05:19:25 <sgornick> Got GPUs?
1161 2010-12-15 05:19:25 <EvanR> or become inspired and start a .com
1162 2010-12-15 05:19:57 <Diablo-D3> http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/15/amd-radeon-hd-6970-and-hd-6950-launch-assault-on-enthusiast-gami/
1163 2010-12-15 05:20:00 <Diablo-D3> official reviews are out
1164 2010-12-15 05:20:51 <ArtForz> SHINY!
1165 2010-12-15 05:21:26 <Diablo-D3> http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/12/14/amd_radeon_hd_6970_6950_video_card_review/8
1166 2010-12-15 05:21:38 <Diablo-D3> fuckers need to learn to do math
1167 2010-12-15 05:21:41 <ArtForz> 1536SP @ 880MHz, useless for mining
1168 2010-12-15 05:21:43 <EvanR> how does a market work, i never understood it. we set our own prices?
1169 2010-12-15 05:21:45 <Diablo-D3> if they know the total system wattage is 190, SUBTRACT IT
1170 2010-12-15 05:22:06 <nanotube> sgornick: you buy some on -otc or mtgox or bitcoingateway
1171 2010-12-15 05:22:17 <Diablo-D3> 6970 uses 238 watts max
1172 2010-12-15 05:22:34 <Diablo-D3> slightly more than the 5870
1173 2010-12-15 05:22:38 <ArtForz> 6970 needs more power than 5870, barely faster than a 5850
1174 2010-12-15 05:22:42 <nanotube> EvanR: same way any market works. there's a range of buy orders, and a range of sell orders... when they come together, trading occurs.
1175 2010-12-15 05:22:48 <Diablo-D3> but apparently rapes it on 3D
1176 2010-12-15 05:22:59 <Diablo-D3> LOL 12 idle watts
1177 2010-12-15 05:22:59 <EvanR> nanotube: occurs?
1178 2010-12-15 05:22:59 <Diablo-D3> jesus
1179 2010-12-15 05:23:05 <ArtForz> still FAIL for mining
1180 2010-12-15 05:23:10 <EvanR> nanotube: what i dont understand is who is deciding what
1181 2010-12-15 05:23:23 <Diablo-D3> yuck, full load reaches 89c
1182 2010-12-15 05:23:23 <ArtForz> and seems to run hot as hell
1183 2010-12-15 05:23:48 darrob has joined
1184 2010-12-15 05:23:52 <nanotube> EvanR: simple case: say i want to buy 100 bitcoins, and i'm willing to pay .20 usd/btc. someone else is looking to sell, and is willing to sell at .25/btc
1185 2010-12-15 05:24:01 <nanotube> EvanR: if there's nothing else happening, then no trading occurs.
1186 2010-12-15 05:24:05 <ArtForz> I bet the fan never goes >60% on auto
1187 2010-12-15 05:24:25 <EvanR> nanotube: ok, then what?
1188 2010-12-15 05:24:29 <nanotube> EvanR: now, some other guy comes in, and he really wantsn some btc... so he's willing to buy at .25. so he comes in and snaps up some of the seller's coins at .25/btc
1189 2010-12-15 05:24:57 <nanotube> EvanR: and voila, a trade has occurred. it's just like when you go to a farmer's market and want to buy some tomatoes. there are guys selling... at various price points...
1190 2010-12-15 05:25:08 <ArtForz> wait a sec
1191 2010-12-15 05:25:13 <ArtForz> the slide changed
1192 2010-12-15 05:25:21 <EvanR> so its like ham radio, people have to agree on a frequency or they cant hear each other
1193 2010-12-15 05:25:21 <ArtForz> we got 4 32-bit adds per clock again
1194 2010-12-15 05:25:29 <nanotube> EvanR: you go around, and if you really want your tomatoes, you buy from one of the vendors. if you think they're all to expensive, you haggle until you agree on a price, or walk away.
1195 2010-12-15 05:25:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so we're back in business?
1196 2010-12-15 05:25:49 <sgornick> > #-otc? Assuming the person has registered their nickname weeks ago, which is the prerequisite to place an order.
1197 2010-12-15 05:25:51 <ArtForz> kinda
1198 2010-12-15 05:26:06 <ArtForz> should get 5970 about == 5870 for mining
1199 2010-12-15 05:26:15 <Diablo-D3> you mean 6970
1200 2010-12-15 05:26:18 <ArtForz> yea
1201 2010-12-15 05:26:20 <ArtForz> 6970
1202 2010-12-15 05:26:25 <nanotube> sgornick: well, to place it officially on the book, yes. but you can also just shout out to channel. willing sellers may verify your identity, and sell to you (possibly at a bit of a risk premium)
1203 2010-12-15 05:26:31 <EvanR> nanotube: so there might be several 'prices' where trades are occuring, and if the people paying higher know about all of them, they will all go to the lowest?
1204 2010-12-15 05:26:46 <ArtForz> and VLIW4 should get us a bit better VLIW usage
1205 2010-12-15 05:26:52 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
1206 2010-12-15 05:27:07 <ArtForz> = might end up 5% faster than 5870
1207 2010-12-15 05:27:22 <nanotube> EvanR: yes, there may be some price differences between the various markets, depending on costs of entry, counterparty risk, etc.
1208 2010-12-15 05:27:29 <Diablo-D3> and uses about 5% more watts than a 5870
1209 2010-12-15 05:27:42 <nanotube> EvanR: but say in case of "the mtgox market"... trading only occurs inside the bid/ask spread.
1210 2010-12-15 05:27:48 <ArtForz> yep
1211 2010-12-15 05:27:48 <EvanR> nanotube: so at a single market, there is only one price?
1212 2010-12-15 05:27:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and costs about 5% more
1213 2010-12-15 05:28:01 <ArtForz> but it means 6990 should end up roughly == 5970
1214 2010-12-15 05:28:20 <Diablo-D3> I wonder where they were going with this
1215 2010-12-15 05:28:32 <ArtForz> at least we wont have to go hunting for remaining stock of 58xxs
1216 2010-12-15 05:28:35 <Diablo-D3> except for the vastly improved tess
1217 2010-12-15 05:28:37 <Diablo-D3> whats the up side?
1218 2010-12-15 05:28:43 <nanotube> EvanR: assuming uniform goods (like bitcoins), yes. in case of tomatoes, no, because someone might sell better quality tomatoes than someone else. :)
1219 2010-12-15 05:29:04 <EvanR> currency in general is uniform?
1220 2010-12-15 05:29:19 <ArtForz> I have to check detailed specs, but I suspect they also beefed up ROP and TEX units
1221 2010-12-15 05:29:37 <EvanR> im going to the bitcoin-otc channel to see how this works
1222 2010-12-15 05:29:42 <Keefe> but how likely is it that the price of 6990 will be <$500?
1223 2010-12-15 05:29:43 <ArtForz> = 58xx was ALU heavy
1224 2010-12-15 05:29:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but it doesnt seem to be improving fps
1225 2010-12-15 05:29:56 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: it'll cost as much as the 5970
1226 2010-12-15 05:30:16 <Keefe> about as much as the 5970 did a few months ago? or now?
1227 2010-12-15 05:30:19 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: the 6970 costs as much as a 5870, the 6950 costs as much as a 5850
1228 2010-12-15 05:30:30 <Diablo-D3> and the 68xx is really pushing the price down
1229 2010-12-15 05:30:52 <ArtForz> because 68xx is the new 57xx
1230 2010-12-15 05:30:57 <Keefe> i'd say a 5970 can be bought for $400 if one is patient
1231 2010-12-15 05:30:59 <Diablo-D3> well no
1232 2010-12-15 05:31:03 <Diablo-D3> 68xx is the new 58xx
1233 2010-12-15 05:31:21 <Diablo-D3> same speed, much lower price
1234 2010-12-15 05:31:33 <Diablo-D3> and less watts, and smaller physical die size
1235 2010-12-15 05:31:34 <ArtForz> 6970 is maybe 10% faster than 5870
1236 2010-12-15 05:31:39 <ArtForz> 6870 is a LOT slower
1237 2010-12-15 05:31:44 <Diablo-D3> not on 3D it isnt
1238 2010-12-15 05:31:55 <Diablo-D3> the question is
1239 2010-12-15 05:31:57 <Keefe> 5870 is their top single chip in the 5xxx series. 6970 is the top single chip in the 6xxx series, right?
1240 2010-12-15 05:31:58 <da2ce7> well for generations it counts.
1241 2010-12-15 05:32:02 <ArtForz> yes it is, 6870 is ~5850
1242 2010-12-15 05:32:07 <ArtForz> yep
1243 2010-12-15 05:32:14 <nanotube> EvanR: yes, currency, stocks, bonds... all uniform, and all usually have "one price" at any given moment in time.
1244 2010-12-15 05:32:16 <Diablo-D3> if the 69xx doesnt significantly beat 58xx
1245 2010-12-15 05:32:18 <Diablo-D3> whats the point
1246 2010-12-15 05:32:18 <ArtForz> thoguh I wonder where the 6950 fits in
1247 2010-12-15 05:32:38 <Diablo-D3> 6970 upgrades 5870, 6950 upgrades 5850
1248 2010-12-15 05:32:49 <ArtForz> yep
1249 2010-12-15 05:32:51 <da2ce7> what we need is a 6970 x4 :P
1250 2010-12-15 05:32:52 <Diablo-D3> 68xx upgrades the assoicated 57xx models
1251 2010-12-15 05:32:54 <Diablo-D3> but its... weird
1252 2010-12-15 05:32:58 <EvanR> nanotube: who decides on that price, seller right?
1253 2010-12-15 05:33:02 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: no, two 6990s
1254 2010-12-15 05:33:09 <ArtForz> yeah, 68xx vs 57xx got a much bigger bunmp than 69xx vs 58xx
1255 2010-12-15 05:33:12 <ArtForz> errr
1256 2010-12-15 05:33:14 <ArtForz> yea
1257 2010-12-15 05:33:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah
1258 2010-12-15 05:33:19 <nanotube> EvanR: both seller and buyer. if i'm the seller, i may /want/ 1 usd/btc... but nobody will be willing to buy.
1259 2010-12-15 05:33:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: which destroys nvidia's midrange market
1260 2010-12-15 05:33:29 <Diablo-D3> even worse than beofre
1261 2010-12-15 05:33:34 <ArtForz> = they're closing the 5830 hole
1262 2010-12-15 05:33:40 <Diablo-D3> 5830 was a mistake
1263 2010-12-15 05:33:44 <Diablo-D3> full watts, no performance
1264 2010-12-15 05:33:51 <ArtForz> no, it was aemergency fix to have SOMETHING in that segment
1265 2010-12-15 05:33:51 <Diablo-D3> those chips should have been thrown out
1266 2010-12-15 05:33:54 <EvanR> nanotube: seems like buyers wouldnt notice if you nudge the price up slightly
1267 2010-12-15 05:34:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: there was no segment there
1268 2010-12-15 05:34:04 <Diablo-D3> everyone bought 5770s
1269 2010-12-15 05:34:14 <ArtForz> yeah, until the 460 came out
1270 2010-12-15 05:34:21 <da2ce7> yeah, I got two 5770's and crosfired.
1271 2010-12-15 05:34:22 <nanotube> EvanR: by the same token... seems like sellers won't notice if you nudge the price down slightly. :P
1272 2010-12-15 05:34:29 <noagendamarket> haha
1273 2010-12-15 05:34:31 <Diablo-D3> but the 460s came out when everyone already bought 5770s
1274 2010-12-15 05:34:34 <nanotube> i suggest you read ,,(wp market)
1275 2010-12-15 05:34:34 <gribble> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market | A market is any one of a variety of systems, institutions, procedures, social relations and infrastructures whereby businesses sell their goods, ...
1276 2010-12-15 05:34:34 <EvanR> bah
1277 2010-12-15 05:34:41 <Diablo-D3> so there went most of nvidia's potential customers
1278 2010-12-15 05:34:41 <ArtForz> yep, nvidia is so fucking fucked
1279 2010-12-15 05:34:45 <EvanR> i read all of wikipedia
1280 2010-12-15 05:34:52 <EvanR> doesnt mean i understand it all ;)
1281 2010-12-15 05:34:52 <Diablo-D3> now, the way I believe this should go
1282 2010-12-15 05:34:57 <nanotube> EvanR: hehe
1283 2010-12-15 05:34:58 <Diablo-D3> AMD should have 3 products of 3 bins
1284 2010-12-15 05:34:59 <da2ce7> anandtech is down :(
1285 2010-12-15 05:35:06 <ArtForz> they do
1286 2010-12-15 05:35:06 <noagendamarket> EvanR its a true free market
1287 2010-12-15 05:35:12 <Diablo-D3> 3 69xx, 3 68xx, 3 67xx
1288 2010-12-15 05:35:16 <EvanR> as free as your internet!
1289 2010-12-15 05:35:27 <appamatto> I just had an idea - a balance sheet based version of bitcoin could operate broadcast-only -- never having to retransmit old blocks
1290 2010-12-15 05:35:30 <noagendamarket> no free as in beer lol
1291 2010-12-15 05:35:33 <Diablo-D3> 58xx screwed up by having four
1292 2010-12-15 05:35:33 <ArtForz> keep 5750/70 for midrange, 68xx is upper midrange to performance, 69xx is performance to enthusiast
1293 2010-12-15 05:35:35 <da2ce7> ooh up again!
1294 2010-12-15 05:35:50 <Diablo-D3> (I consider 5970 a 58xx for obvious reasons)
1295 2010-12-15 05:35:59 <appamatto> A client could connect and each broadcasted block would give them assurance that they're on the right chain
1296 2010-12-15 05:36:06 <ArtForz> 28nm pipecleaner 67xx Q3 2011 as a pipecleaner
1297 2010-12-15 05:36:16 <Keefe> ArtForz: is cat 10.10 when >4 gpus became possible in linux?
1298 2010-12-15 05:36:26 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: yes, but use 11 instead
1299 2010-12-15 05:36:27 <ArtForz> 10.9 it seems
1300 2010-12-15 05:36:38 <Diablo-D3> 10.9 was kind of a botched release
1301 2010-12-15 05:36:40 <ArtForz> but cat 10.9 aticonfig fucks up with >4 GPUs
1302 2010-12-15 05:37:05 <da2ce7> dam 5870 use 2.1B the new 6970 uses 2.64B transistors.
1303 2010-12-15 05:37:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: its strange that they're dropping the 5 wide ALUs for 4 wide
1304 2010-12-15 05:37:29 <ArtForz> err... no
1305 2010-12-15 05:37:48 <EvanR> nanotube: any insight on the factors that determine the mtgox price?
1306 2010-12-15 05:37:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: 69xx is 4 wide.
1307 2010-12-15 05:37:57 <ArtForz> having a dedicated T alu mostly sitting around twiddling thumbs doesn't exactly help perf/sqmm
1308 2010-12-15 05:38:03 <nanotube> EvanR: supply and demand...
1309 2010-12-15 05:38:06 <EvanR> haha
1310 2010-12-15 05:38:25 <ArtForz> all data paths are a multiple of 128 bit wide
1311 2010-12-15 05:38:31 <Keefe> i'm thinking of gettting a pcie 1x extender cable and hooking up an addition card in my dual-5970 box, to use up the last available pcie slot on my board
1312 2010-12-15 05:38:32 <ArtForz> so are registers
1313 2010-12-15 05:38:38 <EvanR> what is the demand dependent on?
1314 2010-12-15 05:38:46 <ArtForz> having 5 32 bit ALUs just feels totally wrong
1315 2010-12-15 05:38:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hem, I guess doing 4 makes it easier for the compiler to optimize for
1316 2010-12-15 05:38:53 <EvanR> isnt the supply relatively fixed?
1317 2010-12-15 05:38:57 <appamatto> EvanR, it's the same as the stock market. There are bids and asks, and price is formed whenever the too meet
1318 2010-12-15 05:39:13 <EvanR> appamatto: we were just discussing that, i sort of understand that
1319 2010-12-15 05:39:14 <ArtForz> well, it should be trivial to get near-100% ALU usage with uint4s now
1320 2010-12-15 05:39:22 <EvanR> but there must be something else
1321 2010-12-15 05:39:36 <appamatto> EvanR, nope, it's strictly based on what people ask and bid
1322 2010-12-15 05:39:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but I wont need uint4s because the compiler automatically vectors the entire program for me
1323 2010-12-15 05:39:50 <EvanR> 'what people ask and bid is based on what people ask and bid' ?
1324 2010-12-15 05:39:51 <ArtForz> or have the compiler autoverctorize
1325 2010-12-15 05:40:01 <ArtForz> yep, same idea
1326 2010-12-15 05:40:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I ripped it out of my miner because the compiler is better at it
1327 2010-12-15 05:40:11 <ArtForz> yeah
1328 2010-12-15 05:40:11 <EvanR> why people do that is what im wondering
1329 2010-12-15 05:40:23 <appamatto> EvanR, each person has their own opinion on how much btc are worth, and they express it via bids and asks
1330 2010-12-15 05:40:30 <EvanR> ah
1331 2010-12-15 05:40:50 <Diablo-D3> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950
1332 2010-12-15 05:40:53 <Diablo-D3> see graph at the bottom
1333 2010-12-15 05:40:54 <appamatto> EvanR, it's the same as stocks. Some people think it will go up, some people think it will go down. Some people are just speculating in the short term...
1334 2010-12-15 05:41:01 <Diablo-D3> that pretty much lines it up
1335 2010-12-15 05:41:03 <nanotube> EvanR: well... there's some 'anchoring' going on... say you're coming in, and you want some bitcoins... well, you look at mtgox, and you see where the prices are... and you may go like hmm, well, i want my bitcoins, and i guess .25 is reasonable.
1336 2010-12-15 05:41:07 <Diablo-D3> 6970 beats the 580, but is cheaper
1337 2010-12-15 05:41:25 <ArtForz> whats 6970 pricing?
1338 2010-12-15 05:41:25 <EvanR> right, personally my 'opinion' is based on previous market prices
1339 2010-12-15 05:41:26 <nanotube> EvanR: or a seller is coming in and sees where the prices are, and may conclude similarly.
1340 2010-12-15 05:41:31 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1341 2010-12-15 05:41:42 <Diablo-D3> er oops, I misread
1342 2010-12-15 05:41:48 <Diablo-D3> no wait Id idnt
1343 2010-12-15 05:41:51 <Diablo-D3> its $369
1344 2010-12-15 05:41:53 <Diablo-D3> that graph is useless
1345 2010-12-15 05:42:01 <nanotube> exactly. previous prices are an important part of the information - especially with a good such as bitcoin, with no "intrinsic value" as of yet.
1346 2010-12-15 05:42:05 <appamatto> It's completely unfounded with a ridiculous amount of risk and wishful thinking priced in
1347 2010-12-15 05:42:06 <Diablo-D3> why is nvidia selling a $500 card thats slower than a $370 card?
1348 2010-12-15 05:42:06 <EvanR> thats how it works at the modern food store, i dont haggle for shit, the prices are immutably labeled
1349 2010-12-15 05:42:16 <ArtForz> *chirps* nvidia is fuuuucked
1350 2010-12-15 05:42:43 <Diablo-D3> you've seen that anigif where lasers are coming out of the monitor at a guy infront of it, and it says FUCK?
1351 2010-12-15 05:42:44 <Diablo-D3> thats nvidia.
1352 2010-12-15 05:42:47 <kiba> doesn't the modern food store haggle with the farmer?
1353 2010-12-15 05:43:01 <appamatto> EvanR, it's still the same as the food store because you can't haggle with the bids and asks
1354 2010-12-15 05:43:15 <appamatto> They are "immutable" for the time being, and you just choose the cheapest one to fulfill your order
1355 2010-12-15 05:43:28 <kiba> are there any competitor other than nvidia?
1356 2010-12-15 05:43:28 <EvanR> they all seem to be the same
1357 2010-12-15 05:43:39 <appamatto> In the stores analogy, it'd be like what would happen if every store were selling in one place with different prices
1358 2010-12-15 05:44:07 <appamatto> EvanR, actually the prices are all different on mtgox, it just shows the lowest ask and the highest bid
1359 2010-12-15 05:44:09 <ArtForz> 4970 == 580, $380 vs. 500; 4950 == 570, $300 vs. 350
1360 2010-12-15 05:44:13 <ArtForz> errr
1361 2010-12-15 05:44:15 <ArtForz> 69...
1362 2010-12-15 05:44:25 <appamatto> because those are the cheapest prices for which you could immediately buy/sell your btc
1363 2010-12-15 05:44:25 <ArtForz> and the drivers are still pretty new
1364 2010-12-15 05:44:50 <ArtForz> remember the perf boosts 4xxx and nv 400 series got after a few months of driver tweaking?
1365 2010-12-15 05:44:50 <appamatto> gotta go watch a movie. Have fun EvanR!
1366 2010-12-15 05:45:03 <EvanR> interesting
1367 2010-12-15 05:45:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah we clearly need sdk 2.3 and 11.1
1368 2010-12-15 05:46:20 <EvanR> nanotube: so how does the price ever change on mtgox?
1369 2010-12-15 05:46:34 <nanotube> a batch of buyers come in and buy up the lowest asks... price moves up.
1370 2010-12-15 05:46:49 <nanotube> EvanR: a batch of sellers come in and use up the highest bids... price moves down.
1371 2010-12-15 05:47:46 <EvanR> oh!
1372 2010-12-15 05:47:55 <EvanR> the seller will run out
1373 2010-12-15 05:48:03 <EvanR> eureka!
1374 2010-12-15 05:49:59 <nanotube> hey guys... if you haven't seen it yet: http://xkcd.com/834/ very topical hehe
1375 2010-12-15 05:50:23 <Phoebus> <3 xkcd
1376 2010-12-15 05:50:46 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|blah bloah
1377 2010-12-15 05:51:01 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|one of the ops in #xkcd is drinking to my birthday
1378 2010-12-15 05:51:07 <EvanR> hahaha
1379 2010-12-15 05:51:33 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|and I had my first beer
1380 2010-12-15 05:51:47 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|So it's a good night
1381 2010-12-15 05:51:49 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|and with that
1382 2010-12-15 05:51:51 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I'm off
1383 2010-12-15 05:52:24 <nanotube> heh gn nameless|
1384 2010-12-15 05:54:47 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1385 2010-12-15 05:56:39 snaked_mobile has joined
1386 2010-12-15 06:08:33 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1387 2010-12-15 06:12:29 pr0wler has quit (Quit: Saindo)
1388 2010-12-15 06:24:46 chuck251 has joined
1389 2010-12-15 06:34:44 RazielZ has joined
1390 2010-12-15 06:46:16 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1391 2010-12-15 06:47:40 <da2ce7> artfroz, what 4 PCI-E mainboard do you use?
1392 2010-12-15 06:51:57 <ArtForz> MSI 790FX-GD70
1393 2010-12-15 06:52:05 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1394 2010-12-15 06:52:32 Phoebus has joined
1395 2010-12-15 06:57:40 <da2ce7> cool :P
1396 2010-12-15 06:59:02 <da2ce7> I've moved to enermax psu's :P so much more stable.
1397 2010-12-15 06:59:56 <ArtForz> meh
1398 2010-12-15 07:01:54 redengin has joined
1399 2010-12-15 07:02:37 chuck251 has quit ()
1400 2010-12-15 07:19:22 <ArtForz> time for some prerelease fun
1401 2010-12-15 07:19:30 <ArtForz> sdk 2.3, cat 10.12
1402 2010-12-15 07:24:23 <EvanR> getting usd out of mtgox looks involved
1403 2010-12-15 07:24:27 <EvanR> libert reserve??
1404 2010-12-15 07:25:18 <joe_1> oh it's easy
1405 2010-12-15 07:25:22 <ArtForz> well, or manual ACH for larger amounts
1406 2010-12-15 07:25:38 <Keefe> some traders are willing to trade paypal <-> mtg$
1407 2010-12-15 07:26:19 <EvanR> who charges 1% mtgox or liberty reserve
1408 2010-12-15 07:26:30 <ArtForz> both
1409 2010-12-15 07:27:44 <EvanR> 2%?
1410 2010-12-15 07:27:45 <ArtForz> mtgox deduces 1% for withdrawing, LR another 1% (iirc limited to max $2.99) for receiving
1411 2010-12-15 07:27:58 <EvanR> thats shit!
1412 2010-12-15 07:28:02 <EvanR> might as well use paypal
1413 2010-12-15 07:28:35 <ArtForz> sure, and risk chargebacks
1414 2010-12-15 07:28:44 <joe_1> if you come to cashcow casino and play a while, i'll cover your fees all the way
1415 2010-12-15 07:28:57 <EvanR> lol?
1416 2010-12-15 07:29:02 <EvanR> cashwhat?
1417 2010-12-15 07:29:21 <joe_1> it's my bitcoin casino at cashcow.no-ip.org it has roulette
1418 2010-12-15 07:29:28 <Keefe> if you want to buy about 50 btc at about 0.28, i'll accept $14 paypal from you
1419 2010-12-15 07:29:29 <EvanR> i like that one
1420 2010-12-15 07:29:54 <EvanR> i dont want to buy any, and i dont really like paypal either
1421 2010-12-15 07:30:15 <EvanR> i was just checking on the technical details of getting your money back out of bitcoin world
1422 2010-12-15 07:30:31 <ArtForz> and somethign with mtgoxes calc is a bit off
1423 2010-12-15 07:30:41 <EvanR> i dont want to be nickle and dimed to death
1424 2010-12-15 07:31:07 <ArtForz> withdrawing mtgox$ 1k gives LR$ 990.10
1425 2010-12-15 07:31:17 <ArtForz> so ... 0.99% I guess
1426 2010-12-15 07:31:51 <EvanR> joe_1: im having trouble getting in
1427 2010-12-15 07:32:40 <joe_1> choose any username and password you want to have
1428 2010-12-15 07:33:20 <ArtForz> LR$ charges $2.99 for receiving, so mtgox$ 1k ends up LR$ 987.11
1429 2010-12-15 07:33:47 <Keefe> there's a max to LR's 1% fee?
1430 2010-12-15 07:33:51 <ArtForz> yep, $2.99
1431 2010-12-15 07:34:03 <EvanR> joe_1: great
1432 2010-12-15 07:34:12 <EvanR> minimum bet 1 coin
1433 2010-12-15 07:34:17 <ArtForz> I think I'll survive 1.29%
1434 2010-12-15 07:34:25 <Keefe> 990.10 * 1.01 = 1000.001
1435 2010-12-15 07:35:07 <ArtForz> yeah, I think he's doing /1.01 instead of *0.99
1436 2010-12-15 07:35:40 <joe_1> yes, all bets are in whole coins and paid out in whole coins.
1437 2010-12-15 07:35:42 <Keefe> /1.01 is more correct
1438 2010-12-15 07:35:53 <ArtForz> no
1439 2010-12-15 07:36:00 <EvanR> i have five cents ;)
1440 2010-12-15 07:36:30 <ArtForz> / 1.01 roughly == * 0.9901, thats a 0.99% fee, not 1%
1441 2010-12-15 07:36:33 <EvanR> when i was your age that was five coins
1442 2010-12-15 07:36:51 <Keefe> guess it depends on how you look at it. that's the correct way to determine what you'd get if someone were sending you LR
1443 2010-12-15 07:37:40 <EvanR> joe_1: by the way
1444 2010-12-15 07:37:41 <Keefe> but i suppose you could argue the other way is more intuitive for mtgox's cut
1445 2010-12-15 07:37:46 <ArtForz> well, as long as it's in our favor
1446 2010-12-15 07:37:55 <EvanR> joe_1: i have a cool link you may not have seen. a possible casino game
1447 2010-12-15 07:38:29 <EvanR> http://singingbanana.com/dice/article.htm
1448 2010-12-15 07:38:34 <EvanR> non transitive dice
1449 2010-12-15 07:38:42 <EvanR> maybe its wildly unfair
1450 2010-12-15 07:38:58 <EvanR> you could figure something out im sure ;)
1451 2010-12-15 07:39:48 <joe_1> haha..cool
1452 2010-12-15 07:39:53 <joe_1> this looks like something i have to sit down and read
1453 2010-12-15 07:40:01 <EvanR> or just watch the video
1454 2010-12-15 07:40:05 <ArtForz> my exchanger charges another 1.5% for LR$ -> EUR wire, so overall I end up with 2.77%
1455 2010-12-15 07:40:42 <ArtForz> still less than paypals 2.9%
1456 2010-12-15 07:40:44 <EvanR> why cant money be free :(
1457 2010-12-15 07:42:44 <Keefe> huh? why would paypal be 2.9%? use personal gift or pmt-owed type
1458 2010-12-15 07:42:57 <Keefe> free plus possible cross-border fee
1459 2010-12-15 07:43:36 <ArtForz> yes, because personal gifting a few $10k doesnt raise any flags
1460 2010-12-15 07:46:19 <Keefe> if you're doing that much, get a us bank account and withdraw by ach?
1461 2010-12-15 07:47:01 <Keefe> or wire
1462 2010-12-15 07:47:45 <Keefe> for small amounts, i like paypal from someone i trust to not chargeback
1463 2010-12-15 07:48:14 <Keefe> like around a few $100 in a day
1464 2010-12-15 07:48:26 <EvanR> is there a fee to go from $ -> coins?
1465 2010-12-15 07:48:39 <Keefe> where is the $?
1466 2010-12-15 07:49:01 <EvanR> credit card, debit card, check, paypal
1467 2010-12-15 07:49:40 <Keefe> once you have a good reputation, you can probably by mtg$ with paypal for 1% fee
1468 2010-12-15 07:49:43 <Keefe> buy*
1469 2010-12-15 07:50:03 <EvanR> gah
1470 2010-12-15 07:50:37 <Keefe> by check is probably similar but you'd have to wait til the bitcoin seller is sure the check cleared
1471 2010-12-15 07:51:20 <EvanR> does the pay transaction fee thing work, how much faster is faster?
1472 2010-12-15 07:51:29 <Keefe> by credit/debit card... check out bitcoingateway.com
1473 2010-12-15 07:51:43 <Keefe> what txn fee?
1474 2010-12-15 07:51:48 <EvanR> in the options
1475 2010-12-15 07:51:53 <Keefe> bitcoin to bitcoin?
1476 2010-12-15 07:51:57 <EvanR> yes
1477 2010-12-15 07:52:19 <Keefe> no point right now. most block generators are accepting no-fee transfers
1478 2010-12-15 07:52:56 <Keefe> it's up to the person receiving your bitcoin transfer how many confirmations they want to wait for
1479 2010-12-15 07:53:29 <Keefe> but almost all transfers get published and start accumulating confirmations in about 10 minutes
1480 2010-12-15 07:54:43 <Keefe> if you send someone bitcoins between mybitcoin accounts, i think it's instant
1481 2010-12-15 07:55:00 <[Noodles]> what about tha disabled (or de-linked) Sedn Money form on mtgox, how do we trade pp2mtg$? seems like its up to "official exchangers" now
1482 2010-12-15 07:55:18 <Keefe> that option was previously available at mt gox also, but was recently semi-removed
1483 2010-12-15 07:55:22 <[Noodles]> gna, i should get awake before i type
1484 2010-12-15 07:55:49 <[Noodles]> well, the form is still there, it's just not linked on the menu
1485 2010-12-15 07:55:54 <Keefe> true, the ability to trade pp <-> mtg is in limbo right now
1486 2010-12-15 07:56:05 <EvanR> there needs to be a bitcoin webring ;)
1487 2010-12-15 07:56:05 <Keefe> legal concerns
1488 2010-12-15 07:56:36 <[Noodles]> yeah, but that's pretty bad in case of EURians, there's no way besides LR now
1489 2010-12-15 07:57:15 <[Noodles]> gateway only accepts CC from the US and cash in the mail isnt any better
1490 2010-12-15 07:57:40 <EvanR> i have a cheap way to get cash from bitcoins. the bank where you have your checking account starts a bitcoin client, and simply trades at no cost ;)
1491 2010-12-15 07:57:43 <Keefe> hmm, i do have a usd-centered mindset
1492 2010-12-15 07:57:51 <[Noodles]> specially for large amounts
1493 2010-12-15 07:57:53 leeth has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1494 2010-12-15 07:58:15 * [Noodles] isn't pleased with the current situation
1495 2010-12-15 07:58:30 <Keefe> feel free to start up an exchange :)
1496 2010-12-15 07:58:45 <[Noodles]> and where to get the coins to sell?
1497 2010-12-15 07:58:55 <aximilation_> joe_1: Are there any legal issues between countries with online gambling in bitcoins?
1498 2010-12-15 07:58:56 <[Noodles]> that's the point
1499 2010-12-15 07:59:19 <Keefe> we need people to get involved in this way, do the legal research, start up formal exchanges, etc
1500 2010-12-15 07:59:27 <EvanR> aximilation_: if there were, wouldnt there also be legal issues with gambling mmo money
1501 2010-12-15 07:59:39 <aximilation_> true
1502 2010-12-15 07:59:43 <RazielZ> mmo money that can't be converted into real money? no
1503 2010-12-15 07:59:55 <RazielZ> or can't be legally converted, cause gold sellers aren't legal
1504 2010-12-15 08:00:04 <EvanR> why not?
1505 2010-12-15 08:00:43 <RazielZ> well, I don't think so atleast, because since they can't (legally) be bought or sold with real money it's a closed economy which doesn't influence the "real" one
1506 2010-12-15 08:01:00 <joe_1> aximilation: gambling in bitcoins is currently legal in all countries because bitcoin is not officially recognized as a currency
1507 2010-12-15 08:01:00 <Keefe> [Noodles]: you could start up an exchange like mt gox, for euros, and accept eur deposits/withdrawals by bank transfer (as far as i know, that's pretty easy in europe)
1508 2010-12-15 08:01:02 <aximilation_> that's what I was thinking :-D
1509 2010-12-15 08:01:30 <aximilation_> joe_1: Ok that makes sense, I wonder if/when they decide/try to make it an "official" currency.
1510 2010-12-15 08:01:51 <Keefe> as for getting bitcoins? the people trading at your exchange would bring in bitcoins. of course you'd let them deposit/withdraw bitcoins just like mt gox does
1511 2010-12-15 08:02:23 <EvanR> Keefe: are you suggesting start an exchange which makes it easier to get euros from?
1512 2010-12-15 08:02:32 <aximilation_> joe_1: Would it be hard for you to get a texas hold-em table set up? I'm fond of that game and would probably use that somewhat regularly.
1513 2010-12-15 08:02:36 <joe_1> as it rises in popularity they will start to recognize it as an item of dependable value
1514 2010-12-15 08:02:56 <Keefe> i'm suggesting someone setup an exchange just like mt gox, but targeted toward europeans and euros
1515 2010-12-15 08:03:13 <aximilation_> more international currencies would be interesting
1516 2010-12-15 08:03:50 <Keefe> if it attracts enough traders, there you go: a way for people to cash out of bitcoin to euros and vice versa
1517 2010-12-15 08:04:07 <joe_1> I am working on adding texas holdem to the site, but I do not expect to have it running for a couple months. There is a site that offers holdem at betco.in, but it is not affiliated with my site.
1518 2010-12-15 08:04:15 <Keefe> arbitrage would help keep mt gox and the new euro exchange in somewhat sync
1519 2010-12-15 08:04:29 <EvanR> whats arbitrage
1520 2010-12-15 08:04:40 <aximilation_> that brings in an interesting aspect of potentially currency juggling, occasionally if you have the right sort of economy you can trade around in a 3-4 step circle and make profit :-D
1521 2010-12-15 08:05:01 <EvanR> aximilation_: i was just bringing that up in the other channel
1522 2010-12-15 08:05:05 <aximilation_> lol
1523 2010-12-15 08:05:15 <EvanR> bitcoin -> usd -> gold -> bitcoin
1524 2010-12-15 08:05:19 <aximilation_> I actually did that with an old MMO a couple years ago
1525 2010-12-15 08:05:25 <aximilation_> guild wars actually
1526 2010-12-15 08:06:07 <Keefe> say i have usd in mt gox, i trade there for bitcoins, transfer the bitcoins out and into the euro exchange, sell for euros, withdraw euros to a bank in europe, exchange for usd (such as wire to a us bank), deposit to mt gox, and repeat. or the other way around
1527 2010-12-15 08:06:18 <aximilation_> $20 USD bought 1000 gold in game, 1000 gold bought 5 items in game which could be sold on ebay for $10 each, or something like that.
1528 2010-12-15 08:06:48 <aximilation_> circular currency exchange in favor of a mis-balanced economy
1529 2010-12-15 08:07:02 <Keefe> of course i'd do that only when the relative market prices created a profit opportunity for me. but that's how global markets are synced
1530 2010-12-15 08:07:16 <aximilation_> I don't think it would take long to hit a natural equilibrium though
1531 2010-12-15 08:07:47 <Keefe> it will push the prices in such a direction as to make them about equivalent, accounting for the usd/eur exchange rate
1532 2010-12-15 08:07:58 <aximilation_> *but* with the right information, someone could stand to make a *LOT* of money that way given the right circumstances
1533 2010-12-15 08:08:13 * EvanR arrests aximilation_ for various market related crimes
1534 2010-12-15 08:08:22 <Keefe> of course, with a small economy like bitcoins, there'd be little profit opportunity and it'd be easy to sync the prices
1535 2010-12-15 08:08:53 * aximilation_ escapes via a rescue mission paid for by bitcoins
1536 2010-12-15 08:09:14 <EvanR> donate bitcoins to help assange!
1537 2010-12-15 08:09:17 <EvanR> lol
1538 2010-12-15 08:09:19 <aximilation_> lol
1539 2010-12-15 08:09:38 <aximilation_> what's newest on that BTW, I heard the US was trying to extradite him?
1540 2010-12-15 08:09:45 <EvanR> i didnt
1541 2010-12-15 08:09:55 <EvanR> everyone says we will though
1542 2010-12-15 08:10:18 * aximilation_ grumbles...stupid stuff
1543 2010-12-15 08:11:22 <aximilation_> ahh, found out where my nick was being used....already logged into the server lol.
1544 2010-12-15 08:11:53 aximilation has joined
1545 2010-12-15 08:12:04 <aximilation> here I be now :-D
1546 2010-12-15 08:12:35 * aximilation_ is now a contradiction and will dissolve into nothingness
1547 2010-12-15 08:12:39 aximilation_ has left ()
1548 2010-12-15 08:13:21 <aximilation> I forgot I was already on freenode and connected a second time :-P
1549 2010-12-15 08:13:52 <Diablo-D3> lol
1550 2010-12-15 08:15:06 <aximilation> joe_1: Now you really have me thinking about hold-em :-D
1551 2010-12-15 08:15:54 <aximilation> I could see a recurring transfer of $X -> casino -> portion to bitcoin savings account.
1552 2010-12-15 08:16:03 <EvanR> theres another poker site on the list
1553 2010-12-15 08:16:17 <aximilation> list? what did I miss?
1554 2010-12-15 08:16:27 MattDrollette has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1555 2010-12-15 08:16:32 <EvanR> https://betco.in/
1556 2010-12-15 08:17:59 <aximilation> that's pretty cool
1557 2010-12-15 08:20:10 <aximilation> ...and nobody is on...lol
1558 2010-12-15 08:21:16 <EvanR> its 2am
1559 2010-12-15 08:21:27 <EvanR> ive been playing with bitcoins and such for like 8 hours now
1560 2010-12-15 08:21:31 <EvanR> i need to sleep
1561 2010-12-15 08:21:33 <aximilation> midnight my time :-D
1562 2010-12-15 08:23:08 MattDrollette has joined
1563 2010-12-15 08:24:16 <EvanR> haha bitporn
1564 2010-12-15 08:24:32 <joe_1> i'll be putting in holdem tables in the next couple months. I stopped working on it a while ago because I wanted to wait for demand to materialize first. Clearly, holdem doesn't work well if there are not enough players
1565 2010-12-15 08:24:35 <EvanR> its always nice to be supported by adult entertainment
1566 2010-12-15 08:24:38 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1567 2010-12-15 08:25:48 MJD has joined
1568 2010-12-15 08:26:51 <appamatto> EvanR, how is your investigation of bitcoin going?
1569 2010-12-15 08:27:09 <EvanR> i stopped 'generating coins'
1570 2010-12-15 08:27:19 <appamatto> good idea
1571 2010-12-15 08:27:39 <EvanR> until i have a real internet connection
1572 2010-12-15 08:27:43 <appamatto> bitcoin is just a big pyramid scheme :p
1573 2010-12-15 08:27:58 <EvanR> whos on top?
1574 2010-12-15 08:28:07 <appamatto> Satoshi
1575 2010-12-15 08:28:19 <EvanR> really?
1576 2010-12-15 08:28:23 <appamatto> Haha
1577 2010-12-15 08:28:30 <appamatto> Well, he probably owns like 50% of all bitcoins
1578 2010-12-15 08:28:53 <appamatto> If he has been running the client since it was first published
1579 2010-12-15 08:29:52 <EvanR> the most obvious feature of this community is merchants, then money markets
1580 2010-12-15 08:30:35 <EvanR> makes me want to be a merchant
1581 2010-12-15 08:31:08 <appamatto> what will you sell?
1582 2010-12-15 08:31:33 <EvanR> unless im willing to fool with the stupid postal services it will have to be downloadable
1583 2010-12-15 08:31:37 <EvanR> or streaming
1584 2010-12-15 08:31:50 <EvanR> or interactive
1585 2010-12-15 08:31:54 <appamatto> It's kind of pyramidal in the sense that over 50% of the hashes have been generated in the last month or two, but that was only worth something like 10% of the coins
1586 2010-12-15 08:32:47 <EvanR> the finite number of coins goes against everything i was taught about modern money ;)
1587 2010-12-15 08:32:53 <appamatto> hehe
1588 2010-12-15 08:33:15 <joe_1> what it really is, is early users are lucky because they got easy coins before there was any competition.
1589 2010-12-15 08:33:33 <appamatto> I'm not sure if I prefer no inflation, constant inflation, or inflation that scales with difficulty
1590 2010-12-15 08:34:01 <EvanR> i dont understand difficulty yet
1591 2010-12-15 08:34:01 <appamatto> I think there will be competing currencies that try different inflation mechanics out
1592 2010-12-15 08:34:35 <joe_1> i think so too. there may need to be extra money besides transaction fees, to fuel a healthy network of honest CPU effort
1593 2010-12-15 08:35:22 <appamatto> joe_1, yeah, imagine if you had the choice between a system where you will get paid in proportion to your work, versus a system where you got paid less the more work in the system
1594 2010-12-15 08:35:29 <appamatto> I think new users would choose the former
1595 2010-12-15 08:36:05 amiga4000 is now known as Amiga4000
1596 2010-12-15 08:36:08 <EvanR> that aspect is interesting but not really that important for me
1597 2010-12-15 08:36:19 <EvanR> more important is that they money is there and you can trade with it
1598 2010-12-15 08:36:29 MattDrollette has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1599 2010-12-15 08:36:30 <appamatto> yeah
1600 2010-12-15 08:36:30 <aximilation> there we go, all better, I got bitcoind set up in cron now
1601 2010-12-15 08:36:43 <joe_1> no- what it would be, is it would still be rate limited to a pre determined amount of coins per block.
1602 2010-12-15 08:37:04 <aximilation> scheduled to run at max CPU at night, 3/4 during day when I'm at work and may ssh back home, and off in the evening when I actually use my computer :-D
1603 2010-12-15 08:37:13 <appamatto> joe_1, that's one way
1604 2010-12-15 08:37:26 <appamatto> or the number of coins could be the difficulty of the block
1605 2010-12-15 08:39:24 <joe_1> that would tend to water down the currency
1606 2010-12-15 08:40:59 <ArtForz> same crap with SDK 2.3, 100% CPU per GPU
1607 2010-12-15 08:47:45 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1608 2010-12-15 08:47:50 lord_darwin has joined
1609 2010-12-15 08:49:47 <appamatto> Did you guys read about openbsd ipsec?
1610 2010-12-15 08:51:14 <mwally> I have, briefly; does anyone know the implications of that?
1611 2010-12-15 08:51:53 <lord_darwin> what is the addressbook for?
1612 2010-12-15 08:51:59 <appamatto> Hmm, I'm really not sure
1613 2010-12-15 08:52:23 <appamatto> mwally, I'm not sure if I actually use ipsec or not
1614 2010-12-15 08:52:43 Grantt has joined
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1616 2010-12-15 08:53:47 zylche has joined
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1619 2010-12-15 08:55:28 <lord_darwin> also, is there a console or background version that you can run?
1620 2010-12-15 08:57:14 <doublec> lord_darwin, bitcoind
1621 2010-12-15 08:57:34 <lord_darwin> thanks
1622 2010-12-15 08:58:13 <lord_darwin> should I fork it?
1623 2010-12-15 08:58:39 <MT`AwAy> lord_darwin: if will fork by itself
1624 2010-12-15 08:58:49 <MT`AwAy> bitcoind -server -daemon
1625 2010-12-15 08:58:50 <MT`AwAy> :)
1626 2010-12-15 08:59:03 <appamatto> doublec, is your pool still going down after the next block?
1627 2010-12-15 08:59:33 <[Noodles]> i'd say it's still up til next block ^.^
1628 2010-12-15 08:59:46 <doublec> appamatto, it goes down when we generate the next block
1629 2010-12-15 08:59:59 <doublec> so users who've contributed since the last one haven't wasted their time
1630 2010-12-15 09:01:11 <[Noodles]> new pool is still <30M, no need to switch
1631 2010-12-15 09:02:06 <lord_darwin> if you run the daemon, how do you know when you have generated a coin?
1632 2010-12-15 09:02:58 <lord_darwin> will echo to the console it was started in?
1633 2010-12-15 09:08:24 <nathan7> midnightmagic: hmm?
1634 2010-12-15 09:12:56 TD has joined
1635 2010-12-15 09:13:16 <TD> hey, does cdecker ever come here?
1636 2010-12-15 09:30:10 <appamatto> never seen him
1637 2010-12-15 09:35:35 <doublec> lord_darwin, you'll see money in your balance all of a sudden
1638 2010-12-15 09:36:16 <lord_darwin> but when I ran bitcoind it said nothing about a balance
1639 2010-12-15 09:36:35 <doublec> lord_darwin, bitcoind has an RPC interface
1640 2010-12-15 09:36:43 <doublec> lord_darwin, with it running do: ./bitcoind getbalance
1641 2010-12-15 09:36:46 <doublec> and you'll see the balance
1642 2010-12-15 09:36:56 <lord_darwin> oh
1643 2010-12-15 09:37:04 <doublec> also: ./bitcoind help
1644 2010-12-15 09:37:06 <doublec> to see other commands
1645 2010-12-15 09:37:46 ebel has joined
1646 2010-12-15 09:43:08 <Auctus> can i not make transactions smaller than 0.01 right now?
1647 2010-12-15 09:43:30 <da2ce7> must use bitcoind
1648 2010-12-15 09:43:48 <Auctus> Ok. Thanks. Cool.
1649 2010-12-15 09:44:21 m0mchil has joined
1650 2010-12-15 09:53:04 RazielZ has quit ()
1651 2010-12-15 09:56:33 KwukDuck has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1652 2010-12-15 10:07:45 foobar has joined
1653 2010-12-15 10:08:27 altamic has joined
1654 2010-12-15 10:11:38 NewUser2001 has joined
1655 2010-12-15 10:12:11 <NewUser2001> Hi. I have set up an paypal account because I want to buy from ebay. How do I link my paypal account to the ebay one?
1656 2010-12-15 10:12:27 <NewUser2001> How the transactions are made?
1657 2010-12-15 10:12:51 <NewUser2001> Do I have to add funds to my paypal account ( l linked it do my debit card)
1658 2010-12-15 10:16:40 <doublec> NewUser2001, this channel doesn't have anything to do with paypal or ebay...
1659 2010-12-15 10:16:45 <NewUser2001> ok
1660 2010-12-15 10:16:52 NewUser2001 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1661 2010-12-15 10:17:06 <doublec> random
1662 2010-12-15 10:18:03 lord_darwin has left ("Leaving")
1663 2010-12-15 10:20:21 foobar has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1664 2010-12-15 10:20:40 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1665 2010-12-15 10:20:49 grondilu has joined
1666 2010-12-15 10:24:33 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1667 2010-12-15 10:24:54 grondilu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1668 2010-12-15 10:25:10 grondilu has joined
1669 2010-12-15 10:25:23 TheAncientGoat has joined
1670 2010-12-15 10:25:41 <grondilu> Hi, how could I sign an ASCII text using one of my key in my wallet ?
1671 2010-12-15 10:27:14 <Auctus> ;;bc,calc 255000
1672 2010-12-15 10:27:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 255000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes, and 21 seconds
1673 2010-12-15 10:27:34 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 686000
1674 2010-12-15 10:27:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 686000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 21 hours, 18 minutes, and 28 seconds
1675 2010-12-15 10:27:42 <UukGoblin> I win! ;-]
1676 2010-12-15 10:28:24 * ArtForz hands UukGoblin one internets
1677 2010-12-15 10:28:46 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
1678 2010-12-15 10:28:47 <gribble> 14034.25075972
1679 2010-12-15 10:28:51 <Auctus> I'm doing the pool thing. Currently contributing ~3700khps to the pool of 255000khps.
1680 2010-12-15 10:29:04 <Auctus> I am annoyed that my x1950 graphics card doesnt have opencl support. :P
1681 2010-12-15 10:29:10 <UukGoblin> Auctus, I'm happy to have 4x 5770 :-]
1682 2010-12-15 10:29:53 <ArtForz> it'd be totally useless anyways
1683 2010-12-15 10:29:56 <Auctus> are they loud? :P
1684 2010-12-15 10:30:06 <UukGoblin> Auctus, hell yeah
1685 2010-12-15 10:30:10 <UukGoblin> the cards themselves aren't
1686 2010-12-15 10:30:18 <UukGoblin> but the gazillion fans we put around it - definitely
1687 2010-12-15 10:30:30 <ArtForz> hehehe
1688 2010-12-15 10:30:43 <Auctus> ArtForz, would it? x1950 seems to work well for folding@home
1689 2010-12-15 10:31:19 <ArtForz> 8 vertex shaders @ 800Mhz or so
1690 2010-12-15 10:31:55 akem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1691 2010-12-15 10:31:56 Granttt has joined
1692 2010-12-15 10:32:06 <Auctus> UukGoblin, do run those GPUs 24/7 for bitcoins?
1693 2010-12-15 10:32:09 <ArtForz> ... about 1Mhash/s
1694 2010-12-15 10:32:14 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1695 2010-12-15 10:32:17 <UukGoblin> Auctus, now I am yes
1696 2010-12-15 10:33:27 <Auctus> UukGoblin, did you buy the GPUs just for this?
1697 2010-12-15 10:33:40 <ArtForz> wait... you could probably also coerce the picel shaders
1698 2010-12-15 10:33:45 <ArtForz> *pixel
1699 2010-12-15 10:33:57 <UukGoblin> Auctus, so you'll get around 0.72 BTC?
1700 2010-12-15 10:34:09 <UukGoblin> Auctus, yes I have
1701 2010-12-15 10:34:27 <UukGoblin> I mean, it'll be nice to have them for new games once bitcoins die out
1702 2010-12-15 10:34:36 <ArtForz> so... about 6 Mhash/s
1703 2010-12-15 10:34:40 <UukGoblin> IF they die out
1704 2010-12-15 10:34:46 <Auctus> UukGoblin, i started generating around midnight I've got 0.0366 so far, my share of the pot.
1705 2010-12-15 10:34:50 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, did you manage to OC a 5770 above 1.1GHz?
1706 2010-12-15 10:34:53 m0mchil has left ()
1707 2010-12-15 10:35:01 <ArtForz> nope
1708 2010-12-15 10:35:19 <UukGoblin> they seem to become very unstable above that 'magic' limit
1709 2010-12-15 10:35:21 <ArtForz> all my 5770s seem to start giving wrong results beyond 1.05GHz or so
1710 2010-12-15 10:35:34 <Auctus> ArtForz, I have a dual core pentium D, quad core I3, and a pentium 4 all going together and it's ~3700khps, so one x1950 would be great, if ati supported the damn thing with ati stream or whatever. :P
1711 2010-12-15 10:35:39 <UukGoblin> even though I cooled it down to ~65deg
1712 2010-12-15 10:35:56 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, mine works at 1.1 but I set it to 1.05 to have some margin
1713 2010-12-15 10:36:12 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1714 2010-12-15 10:36:18 akem has joined
1715 2010-12-15 10:36:19 <ArtForz> my 5770s do 1010/1020/1040/1020/1030 stable at up to 80°C core or so
1716 2010-12-15 10:36:39 <UukGoblin> thing is
1717 2010-12-15 10:36:52 <ArtForz> with a BFF and ~60°C core about 20MHz more
1718 2010-12-15 10:36:55 <UukGoblin> when I set it to 1125, even though it was still below 65 deg, it hung up the system
1719 2010-12-15 10:37:01 <ArtForz> normal
1720 2010-12-15 10:37:15 <UukGoblin> ack
1721 2010-12-15 10:37:24 <ArtForz> when you push core OC WAY too far box just locks up hard
1722 2010-12-15 10:37:49 <ArtForz> which happens here ~1.1GHz too
1723 2010-12-15 10:37:52 <Auctus> you guys aren't scared the value is BTC is going to turn out to be one giant ponzi scheme when no-one ends up wanting them for tangible goods? I sound like a troll. I'm not. :P
1724 2010-12-15 10:37:58 <UukGoblin> I saw some funny things before it locked - like java process taking 9999 CPU, becoming <defunct>, and shit.
1725 2010-12-15 10:38:20 <UukGoblin> Auctus, if it does, I just switch my boxes off
1726 2010-12-15 10:38:23 <ArtForz> oh... the 9999 cpu is a known linux bug
1727 2010-12-15 10:38:28 <Auctus> you have to either get a rich guy to back them or get a government to accept them for tax payment, then they'll have lasting value
1728 2010-12-15 10:38:40 <Auctus> I have been obsessed with bitcoins, the idea, since i learned about them about 36 hours ago. :P
1729 2010-12-15 10:38:46 <ArtForz> like I said, my 5770s produce wrong results beyond 1020 or so
1730 2010-12-15 10:38:59 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, 'wrong results'?
1731 2010-12-15 10:39:05 <ArtForz> yes
1732 2010-12-15 10:39:07 <UukGoblin> as in invalid bitcoin blocks?
1733 2010-12-15 10:39:08 <UukGoblin> hrm.
1734 2010-12-15 10:39:18 <UukGoblin> and what's the temp on them?
1735 2010-12-15 10:39:19 <ArtForz> as in calcultaing wrong H
1736 2010-12-15 10:39:32 <ArtForz> like I said, limit is ~1020 @ 80°C core
1737 2010-12-15 10:39:41 <ArtForz> 1040-1050 @ 60°C
1738 2010-12-15 10:39:51 darrob has joined
1739 2010-12-15 10:40:08 <UukGoblin> mine now sets at aroudn 70deg on 1050... perhaps I should clock it down a bit...
1740 2010-12-15 10:40:12 <ArtForz> I have a test kernel I use for OC stability testing
1741 2010-12-15 10:40:22 <UukGoblin> that sounds handy
1742 2010-12-15 10:40:43 <ArtForz> basically does the same thing as the normal kernel but outputs H_1 ^ H_2 ...
1743 2010-12-15 10:41:21 <ArtForz> pre-calced results for 1M nonces for 2 different block headers, host feeds the kernel the same header and checks if the returned values match the stored ones
1744 2010-12-15 10:41:59 <ArtForz> I also like turning down the fans a bit for these tests so I get ~85°C core on my 5770s and ~90°C on my 5970s
1745 2010-12-15 10:42:48 <ArtForz> figuring if I get 0 errors for 30 min or so at those temps, they'll be stable at 10°C less for a looong time
1746 2010-12-15 10:43:15 <UukGoblin> right
1747 2010-12-15 10:43:25 <UukGoblin> one error here and there won't hurt much either
1748 2010-12-15 10:43:55 <UukGoblin> awesome idea, thanks for the clue :-)
1749 2010-12-15 10:44:21 <UukGoblin> it's becoming increasingly hard to get hold of cheap 5970s in UK btw
1750 2010-12-15 10:44:42 <UukGoblin> all the ~390quid ones are sold out
1751 2010-12-15 10:44:57 <UukGoblin> amazon has them starting at ~500
1752 2010-12-15 10:46:01 <ArtForz> same in .de
1753 2010-12-15 10:46:24 <ArtForz> like I said, shipping date for my 12 380EUR 5970s was pushed back to january
1754 2010-12-15 10:46:36 <ArtForz> I said fuck this and cancelled the order
1755 2010-12-15 10:46:36 <UukGoblin> :-(
1756 2010-12-15 10:46:53 noagendamarket has joined
1757 2010-12-15 10:47:00 <UukGoblin> they mumbled something about some 6xxx replacing them
1758 2010-12-15 10:47:33 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
1759 2010-12-15 10:47:33 noagendamarket has joined
1760 2010-12-15 10:49:39 <ArtForz> yes, 6990
1761 2010-12-15 10:49:48 <ArtForz> supposed to be released Q1 11
1762 2010-12-15 10:50:29 <ArtForz> and it'll probably end up slower than 5970 for mining at like 50 bucks more
1763 2010-12-15 10:51:13 <UukGoblin> :-/
1764 2010-12-15 10:51:22 <UukGoblin> also has more useless RAM
1765 2010-12-15 10:51:32 <ArtForz> yep
1766 2010-12-15 10:51:38 <ArtForz> and needs SDK 2.3
1767 2010-12-15 10:51:49 <UukGoblin> is sdk 2.3 out yet btw?
1768 2010-12-15 10:51:58 <ArtForz> prerelease
1769 2010-12-15 10:52:07 <ArtForz> here it also eats 100% cpu and sucks at multiGPU like 2.2
1770 2010-12-15 10:52:24 <Amiga4000> there can not be enough ram on a GPU
1771 2010-12-15 10:52:28 <UukGoblin> piece of c%p
1772 2010-12-15 10:53:26 <ArtForz> well, considering openCL is limited to 64MB ...
1773 2010-12-15 10:53:38 RazielZ has joined
1774 2010-12-15 10:54:14 <ArtForz> no, seriously, you can't use more than 64MB ram on a ati card via OpenCL
1775 2010-12-15 10:54:31 <Amiga4000> a GPU is mostly used for graphics, and if you got a nice model, you need some more than 512MB ram on a GPU
1776 2010-12-15 10:54:58 <ArtForz> for what?
1777 2010-12-15 10:55:32 <UukGoblin> a GPU is mostly used for mining. :-]
1778 2010-12-15 10:55:53 <ArtForz> yup
1779 2010-12-15 10:56:04 <ArtForz> or other fun GPGPU tasks
1780 2010-12-15 10:56:27 <ArtForz> using a GPU for graphics is so uninventive
1781 2010-12-15 10:57:24 <Amiga4000> we got some GPUs, and 99% of usage is graphics. as 99% of the workstations out there
1782 2010-12-15 10:57:38 <ArtForz> 99% of workstations dont need a 3D card
1783 2010-12-15 10:57:53 <Amiga4000> sure, you can think of other usages, but a grahics card is used mainly as a graphics card.
1784 2010-12-15 10:57:58 <ArtForz> they'd be fine with a 4MB card from 1995 or so
1785 2010-12-15 10:58:03 <devon_hillard> What are computationally intensive tasks that demand a workstation and not a server?
1786 2010-12-15 10:58:10 <Amiga4000> oh come on. you do not see the real world out there
1787 2010-12-15 10:58:20 <ArtForz> yes I do
1788 2010-12-15 10:58:23 <devon_hillard> computational tasks that also don't require a GPU
1789 2010-12-15 10:58:26 <Amiga4000> even flash does need more then 4 MB ram
1790 2010-12-15 10:58:36 <ArtForz> VRAM?
1791 2010-12-15 10:58:39 <Amiga4000> so does other web clients
1792 2010-12-15 10:58:51 <Diablo-D3> they dont need the vram
1793 2010-12-15 10:59:04 <Diablo-D3> and you really need about 32
1794 2010-12-15 10:59:12 <Diablo-D3> just enough to do high res displays
1795 2010-12-15 10:59:47 <Amiga4000> but if you see my TLD, you know I need graphics
1796 2010-12-15 11:00:05 <Diablo-D3> .at?
1797 2010-12-15 11:00:11 <Amiga4000> cgv
1798 2010-12-15 11:00:25 <ArtForz> yeah, you need about 64MB for double buffered 2*2560x1600
1799 2010-12-15 11:00:37 <Diablo-D3> thats not a tld, thats a subdomain
1800 2010-12-15 11:00:45 <Amiga4000> computergraphics. we do use up the ram from a quadro card and still need more
1801 2010-12-15 11:00:57 <Diablo-D3> Amiga4000: doubtful
1802 2010-12-15 11:01:10 <UukGoblin> Amiga4000, some people need more RAM, but we need less.
1803 2010-12-15 11:01:18 <Diablo-D3> vram not being consumed by framebuffers is just a texture cache
1804 2010-12-15 11:01:23 <UukGoblin> when I said 'useless' I obviously meant 'for mining'
1805 2010-12-15 11:01:27 <Amiga4000> yeah, you, but bitcoin users are how mayn? 1k, 2k?
1806 2010-12-15 11:01:47 <UukGoblin> Amiga4000, I'd be surprised if there was more than a 100 heavy GPU miners around
1807 2010-12-15 11:01:52 <ArtForz> and like 90% of professional users dont need the VRAM either
1808 2010-12-15 11:01:54 <Amiga4000> even number of hardcore gamers who want most GPU for games are highr ;-)
1809 2010-12-15 11:02:13 <Diablo-D3> 100% of anything doesnt really need it
1810 2010-12-15 11:02:20 <ArtForz> unless you're doing 3D modelling and using GPU for preview
1811 2010-12-15 11:02:32 <Diablo-D3> you'd have to have a single texture that exceeds the size of the video ram to even care
1812 2010-12-15 11:02:37 <ArtForz> guy do those guys love large textures
1813 2010-12-15 11:03:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but theres a maximum texture limit size
1814 2010-12-15 11:03:49 <Diablo-D3> so you simply cant load, say, 4GB worth of a single texture.
1815 2010-12-15 11:03:55 <ArtForz> nope
1816 2010-12-15 11:04:02 <Amiga4000> with lots of textuzres not loaded into VRAM you need to buffer and will not get useable speeds.
1817 2010-12-15 11:04:16 <Diablo-D3> Amiga4000: not true at all
1818 2010-12-15 11:04:17 <Amiga4000> oh, you can create and use a 4GB texture. it is by the power of 2 ;-)
1819 2010-12-15 11:04:25 <Diablo-D3> and you fail to understand what a texture _cache_ is
1820 2010-12-15 11:04:42 <Amiga4000> do you work on 3d graphics?
1821 2010-12-15 11:04:46 <ArtForz> max tex size is afair limited to 16384x16384 or so
1822 2010-12-15 11:05:05 <Diablo-D3> Amiga4000: yes, and multiply 16384 * 16384 * 16
1823 2010-12-15 11:05:35 <Amiga4000> ok, get openSG, get a nice model with maya and try it on a 480gtx. and I show you a lot of models not working fine with >10 fps.
1824 2010-12-15 11:05:45 <Diablo-D3> ONLY if you use 32bit per channel images do you finally reach 4 gb.
1825 2010-12-15 11:06:08 <Diablo-D3> Amiga4000: models have nothing to do with textures.
1826 2010-12-15 11:06:12 <Diablo-D3> different parts of the pipeline
1827 2010-12-15 11:06:30 <Amiga4000> the 3d wirefram can be massive, to
1828 2010-12-15 11:06:38 <ArtForz> aka "way too many polys"
1829 2010-12-15 11:06:41 <Amiga4000> but i need to lunch now
1830 2010-12-15 11:06:48 <Diablo-D3> models that are primarily made of triangles that are less than 16 pixels in size in screen space are slow
1831 2010-12-15 11:06:54 <Diablo-D3> no matter if they have textures or not
1832 2010-12-15 11:07:01 <Diablo-D3> this is largely the problem with hardware tess atm
1833 2010-12-15 11:09:25 m0mchil has joined
1834 2010-12-15 11:09:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: seriously, where do all these noobs come from
1835 2010-12-15 11:09:44 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
1836 2010-12-15 11:10:56 <ArtForz> no clue, there's gotta be a nest somewhere close
1837 2010-12-15 11:13:09 mwally has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1838 2010-12-15 11:13:13 cykros has joined
1839 2010-12-15 11:13:42 xelister has joined
1840 2010-12-15 11:13:59 <xelister> hi, XFX is good hardware manuf.?
1841 2010-12-15 11:14:05 <xelister> ArtForz: ^ ;)
1842 2010-12-15 11:14:29 <ArtForz> xfx... meh
1843 2010-12-15 11:14:39 <ArtForz> I don't like their custom cooler designs
1844 2010-12-15 11:14:45 <cykros> hmm...bitcoin seems not to be only running when things are idle as the documentation said...heh, the activity monitor says it is using 182%CPU
1845 2010-12-15 11:15:07 <cykros> which i don't even understand...though i assume it probably totals 200% and that this computer has 2 processors.
1846 2010-12-15 11:15:18 <cykros> oh...wait, i suppose it could be using all idle cpu power
1847 2010-12-15 11:15:28 <cykros> :-P my bad
1848 2010-12-15 11:15:31 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no
1849 2010-12-15 11:17:01 <xelister> ArtForz: in practice, how much can bad manuf. affect something?
1850 2010-12-15 11:17:09 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1851 2010-12-15 11:17:11 <ArtForz> a lot
1852 2010-12-15 11:17:18 <xelister> like... the card will require better external cooling or can else lockup etc?
1853 2010-12-15 11:17:26 <Diablo-D3> _a lot_
1854 2010-12-15 11:17:26 <ArtForz> yup
1855 2010-12-15 11:17:45 <ArtForz> not to mention VRMs blowing up and other fun stuff
1856 2010-12-15 11:17:45 <Diablo-D3> xelister: ever heard the stories where you put the card in the oven to rebake the solder?
1857 2010-12-15 11:18:02 <Diablo-D3> thats your typical experience with less-than-B grade chinese shit
1858 2010-12-15 11:18:03 <xelister> hm ok
1859 2010-12-15 11:18:05 <da2ce7> my gigabyte cards have been great
1860 2010-12-15 11:18:08 <xelister> and about good cards like HIS
1861 2010-12-15 11:18:12 <xelister> but wait, waht
1862 2010-12-15 11:18:17 <xelister> http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Grafische_kaarten_ATI_Radeon_HD5000/XFX/HD5970_Black_Edition/385039/?tn=HARDWARE&l1=Grafische+kaarten&l2=PCIe+kaarten+ATI&l3=Radeon+HD5000
1863 2010-12-15 11:18:20 <xelister> this looks same as HIS
1864 2010-12-15 11:18:22 <Diablo-D3> asus, gigabyte, msi, and sapphire
1865 2010-12-15 11:18:26 <xelister> a box thing, and one big fan thing
1866 2010-12-15 11:18:32 <Diablo-D3> and his I let slide in
1867 2010-12-15 11:18:46 <Diablo-D3> xelister: thats the AMD design
1868 2010-12-15 11:18:53 <da2ce7> powercolor are shit.
1869 2010-12-15 11:19:04 <Diablo-D3> powercolor is ultrashit
1870 2010-12-15 11:19:06 <xelister> Diablo-D3: this link/photo is XFX
1871 2010-12-15 11:19:07 <Diablo-D3> its the worst possible brand
1872 2010-12-15 11:19:12 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so?
1873 2010-12-15 11:19:16 <Diablo-D3> xelister: thats the AMD design.
1874 2010-12-15 11:19:17 <da2ce7> asus, have had mixed results.
1875 2010-12-15 11:19:19 <ArtForz> for ref cards, who gives a fuck?
1876 2010-12-15 11:19:20 <xelister> wiat, slow down a second ;)
1877 2010-12-15 11:19:32 <ArtForz> no, worst brand is club3d
1878 2010-12-15 11:19:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: still have problems with idiots trying to cut corners though
1879 2010-12-15 11:19:38 <xelister> the above photo presents XFX card, btw, my HIS looks the same
1880 2010-12-15 11:19:40 <Diablo-D3> I suspect powercolor and club3d are the same people
1881 2010-12-15 11:19:46 <Diablo-D3> xelister: YES BECAUSE ITS THE REF DESIGN
1882 2010-12-15 11:19:51 <Diablo-D3> AMD MADE IT
1883 2010-12-15 11:19:52 <ArtForz> erm, ALL ref 5970s are actually built by the same OEM
1884 2010-12-15 11:20:07 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes and no.
1885 2010-12-15 11:20:08 <ArtForz> all the board partners do is slap a sticker on and put it in a box
1886 2010-12-15 11:20:11 <xelister> so the box+fan design is bad? as well as by XFX and even if done by HIS?
1887 2010-12-15 11:20:23 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: asus et al. still grab the better card batches.
1888 2010-12-15 11:20:34 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the ref design for 5970 is fine
1889 2010-12-15 11:20:46 <xelister> so the box+fan design overall is fine?
1890 2010-12-15 11:20:51 <Diablo-D3> you
1891 2010-12-15 11:20:52 <Diablo-D3> er
1892 2010-12-15 11:20:57 <ArtForz> if only AMD hadnt left out the 2 VRM phases ...
1893 2010-12-15 11:20:58 <Diablo-D3> you'd want to stick a fan blowing into it though
1894 2010-12-15 11:21:08 <xelister> yeah I do
1895 2010-12-15 11:21:33 <ArtForz> the ref pcb even has the pads for the 4th core phases (and pads for 2*8-pin PCIe power...)
1896 2010-12-15 11:21:35 <Diablo-D3> and manually crank the fan up until either a) its almost too loud, b) you keep temps sane
1897 2010-12-15 11:21:40 <xelister> then, this XFX card is not bad because of using ref box+fan design, but it is bad because it may be using worse quality materials?
1898 2010-12-15 11:21:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes.
1899 2010-12-15 11:22:07 <ArtForz> honestly, I dont notice any difference between 5970s
1900 2010-12-15 11:22:10 <da2ce7> my asus 5970 was dogy once it reached 90C, rock solid once I undervolted it tho.
1901 2010-12-15 11:22:19 <xelister> oh? well then how much is produced by Ati/AMD factory and how much by manuf liek XFX (what they can screw up)?
1902 2010-12-15 11:22:28 <Diablo-D3> xelister: amd is not a card fab.
1903 2010-12-15 11:22:29 <xelister> I thought the cores etc are produced in Amd
1904 2010-12-15 11:22:42 <Diablo-D3> a video card is more than simply cores.
1905 2010-12-15 11:22:57 <Diablo-D3> you have the board fab itself, the shit stuck to it, any changes done by the manuf, etc
1906 2010-12-15 11:23:04 <xelister> so Amd doesnt have any factories for this - even the GPU cores are actaully produced in like XFX's factory from their materials?
1907 2010-12-15 11:23:11 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no.
1908 2010-12-15 11:23:14 <Diablo-D3> pay attention moron
1909 2010-12-15 11:23:20 <Diablo-D3> AMD fabs the Radeon chips themselves, thats it.
1910 2010-12-15 11:23:29 <ArtForz> actually they package them
1911 2010-12-15 11:23:36 <Diablo-D3> They give a ref design to the OEMs, but they do not follow them.
1912 2010-12-15 11:23:44 <da2ce7> chips are mad is fabs.
1913 2010-12-15 11:23:56 <ArtForz> TMSC fabs the silicon, AMD does binning + packaging
1914 2010-12-15 11:24:02 <da2ce7> then they are assembled in factories.
1915 2010-12-15 11:24:03 <xelister> so manufactuer can fuck up things like: the "main board" of the card, the pci connectors, the capacitors around cores, the FAN and externals box casing and radiators etc?
1916 2010-12-15 11:24:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: quit confusing xelister
1917 2010-12-15 11:24:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I consider binning and packaging part of the fab process
1918 2010-12-15 11:24:24 <xelister> yea stop confusing me or I will by mistake date Diablo-D3's sister
1919 2010-12-15 11:24:28 <ArtForz> anyways, all reference 5970s come out of the same factory
1920 2010-12-15 11:24:28 <xelister> and knock her up
1921 2010-12-15 11:24:30 <xelister> yet again
1922 2010-12-15 11:24:31 <xelister> :>
1923 2010-12-15 11:24:53 <ArtForz> same factory does sapphire, so quality is decent
1924 2010-12-15 11:24:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and TMSC and Global Foundaries are under contract to fab the chips anyhow
1925 2010-12-15 11:25:02 <Diablo-D3> actually, sapphire IS the oem
1926 2010-12-15 11:25:16 <Diablo-D3> sapphire is who does AMD branded cards (which you dont see often)
1927 2010-12-15 11:25:26 <ArtForz> yep
1928 2010-12-15 11:25:27 <da2ce7> who dose amd get to assemble the ref boards, or do they do it internaly?
1929 2010-12-15 11:25:38 <ArtForz> sapphire
1930 2010-12-15 11:25:39 <da2ce7> *pre mass production.
1931 2010-12-15 11:25:40 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: see above, its sapphire
1932 2010-12-15 11:25:47 <da2ce7> ah ok
1933 2010-12-15 11:26:13 <Diablo-D3> sapphire ref design boards are usually very fucking good
1934 2010-12-15 11:26:23 <Diablo-D3> their oem designs... eh, usually good enough
1935 2010-12-15 11:26:32 <xelister> 1) GPU cores 2) the board itself 3) external casing 4) FAN 5) radiators 6) plugs, connectors and shit 7) capacitors and other bigger elements outside cores
1936 2010-12-15 11:26:37 <xelister> who does what of the above list?
1937 2010-12-15 11:26:45 <ArtForz> actually the custom 5970 sapphire design = pwn
1938 2010-12-15 11:26:50 <Diablo-D3> xelister: amd, oem, oem, oem, oem, oem, oem
1939 2010-12-15 11:26:58 <xelister> ah ok
1940 2010-12-15 11:26:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they're not too custom
1941 2010-12-15 11:27:07 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they just slapped an even bigger hsf on it afiact
1942 2010-12-15 11:27:11 <ArtForz> nope
1943 2010-12-15 11:27:14 <ArtForz> it's a custom board
1944 2010-12-15 11:27:18 <ArtForz> 2* # of memory chips
1945 2010-12-15 11:27:25 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the fab process, like Art said, is three steps
1946 2010-12-15 11:27:30 <ArtForz> same overall layout and VRM section
1947 2010-12-15 11:27:39 <Diablo-D3> xelister: a fab fabs it, and then amd bins and packages.
1948 2010-12-15 11:28:00 <ArtForz> if they didnt double the memory chips it'd be a fully populated 5970 ref board
1949 2010-12-15 11:28:01 <xelister> with box+fan design of 5970 (normal/reference), how do you best cool the card if o.c.? like use that bigass heatsing shit that is designed specially for 5970 core (have a small rectangle bottom part etc)
1950 2010-12-15 11:28:03 <xelister> ?
1951 2010-12-15 11:28:06 <Diablo-D3> xelister: AMD has two fabs, TMSC and Global Foundaries (GF used to be part of AMD and they spun it off)
1952 2010-12-15 11:28:17 <Diablo-D3> xelister: GF doesnt do Radeon fabbing
1953 2010-12-15 11:28:31 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so, AMD then hands the chips to the major oems
1954 2010-12-15 11:28:32 <ArtForz> ... so far
1955 2010-12-15 11:28:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they dont have the process up for it yet, GF wants to because its a huge market
1956 2010-12-15 11:29:16 <ArtForz> iirc GF is supposed to fab at least some of AMDs upcoming 28nm GPUs (7xxx ?)
1957 2010-12-15 11:29:21 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the oems then either design their own board design, or use the ref design, and take the chip from AMD, slap it on there, slap VRMs and caps and other shit on
1958 2010-12-15 11:29:27 <Diablo-D3> xelister: and then bake it in an oven.
1959 2010-12-15 11:29:49 <ArtForz> they're scheduled for launch Q3/Q4 '11, so they're probably already running early silicon
1960 2010-12-15 11:29:50 <Diablo-D3> well, "oven", its an IR rig
1961 2010-12-15 11:29:56 <ArtForz> depends
1962 2010-12-15 11:30:04 <ArtForz> usually convection + IR
1963 2010-12-15 11:30:16 <ArtForz> and inert atmosphere
1964 2010-12-15 11:30:31 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the problem is, if they use shitty caps, shitty vrms, or improper ones or amounts, or try to deviate from the ref design too much, shit breaks
1965 2010-12-15 11:30:45 <ArtForz> crappy lead-free solder oxidizes too easily
1966 2010-12-15 11:31:34 <Diablo-D3> xelister: any manuf that does mobos typically knows what they're doing
1967 2010-12-15 11:31:37 <xelister> what is weight of 5970 card?
1968 2010-12-15 11:31:42 <da2ce7> they don't use the good lead-free solder, tomuch silver and coper.
1969 2010-12-15 11:31:43 <Diablo-D3> xelister: since thats the hardest shit to do
1970 2010-12-15 11:31:53 <ArtForz> whoever mandated lead-free solder should be shot
1971 2010-12-15 11:32:10 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so asus, gigabyte, msi, and sapphire tend to produce the best cards
1972 2010-12-15 11:32:29 <ArtForz> or go SnAg
1973 2010-12-15 11:32:48 <da2ce7> lol, the good lead-free solder is so much more pleasant to work with. Has a higher melting point, and dosn't oxidise much
1974 2010-12-15 11:32:51 <da2ce7> but it is not cheap
1975 2010-12-15 11:32:57 <Auctus> last sapphire card died on me after less than a year, this one has run at >90C since day one and now has artifacts, had it for 3 or 4 years now.
1976 2010-12-15 11:32:59 <Diablo-D3> xelister: HIS and XFX take up the middle, and diamond, viostar, visontek, powercolor, are known to have higher than normal failure rates or just outright cut corners
1977 2010-12-15 11:33:02 <ArtForz> higher melting point is a BAD thing
1978 2010-12-15 11:33:24 <Diablo-D3> higher metling point can lead to part damage during baking
1979 2010-12-15 11:33:26 <xelister> ArtForz: why lead-free, is it because the ecofaggots movement? "lets save world from 10 tons of X per yer \o/ (anyway we dump 10000 tons/year of X in other ways, and vulcanes produce even more, but sssshh we need artificially restricted resource like CO2 "licences" shit for more power&corruption)?
1980 2010-12-15 11:33:32 <da2ce7> dpends if the components can handel the heat or not. you have to be very strict when soldering.
1981 2010-12-15 11:33:37 <ArtForz> yup
1982 2010-12-15 11:33:40 <da2ce7> don't want dry joints
1983 2010-12-15 11:33:49 <ArtForz> leaded process tolerated uneven heating a LOT better
1984 2010-12-15 11:33:55 <Diablo-D3> btw
1985 2010-12-15 11:34:03 <Diablo-D3> they still use lead in milspec and higher end enterprise shit
1986 2010-12-15 11:34:17 <Diablo-D3> they arent required to comply with the law
1987 2010-12-15 11:34:33 <ArtForz> yup
1988 2010-12-15 11:34:39 <xelister> I'm an ecofagot \o/ <3
1989 2010-12-15 11:34:41 <xelister> do me, do me now!
1990 2010-12-15 11:34:43 <xelister> wait, what, I can't get that since Im a fag :( didnt think of that :<
1991 2010-12-15 11:34:47 <xelister> this all charity sucks
1992 2010-12-15 11:34:55 <Diablo-D3> so all we need is milspec video cards, and then ArtForz can overclock his card into hell
1993 2010-12-15 11:35:02 <ArtForz> seriously, who cares about metallic lead? it just fucking sits there
1994 2010-12-15 11:35:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the lead wasnt even the big part of that law
1995 2010-12-15 11:35:28 <xelister> lets try to 'save' the children in africa then, by providing medicine to 1/10000 th of thoes they need it, using my money, created from exploiting actuall 1/10th of their populatin
1996 2010-12-15 11:35:29 <Diablo-D3> theres other shit in it
1997 2010-12-15 11:35:36 Grantt has joined
1998 2010-12-15 11:35:50 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the only way to save africa is to kickstart their economy
1999 2010-12-15 11:35:55 <xelister> yes Diablo-D3
2000 2010-12-15 11:35:56 <da2ce7> I acualy prefer working with lead-free stuff, after I got used to it. It is much easyer to tell if you fucked up or not, it drys differntly.
2001 2010-12-15 11:35:57 <Diablo-D3> so its more like it was 2000 years ago
2002 2010-12-15 11:36:10 <ArtForz> I find it just the other way around
2003 2010-12-15 11:36:18 <ArtForz> leaded you could tell a good joint by look
2004 2010-12-15 11:36:21 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
2005 2010-12-15 11:36:31 <Diablo-D3> you know what we really need though?
2006 2010-12-15 11:36:32 <xelister> ArtForz: well, lead free is actually a good idea: then you can give such cards and computer parts to children to safly play with, imaging what if a child licks inside of a computer with lead and crap.... erm, wait, what? where's my medication
2007 2010-12-15 11:36:38 <ArtForz> lwead-free without inert atmo it all looks like crappy craters
2008 2010-12-15 11:36:38 <Diablo-D3> chip packaging that is more efficient at dumping heat
2009 2010-12-15 11:36:45 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, how do you kickstart their economy?
2010 2010-12-15 11:36:51 <Diablo-D3> they keep trying to make it smaller and thinner
2011 2010-12-15 11:36:53 <Diablo-D3> but bleh
2012 2010-12-15 11:37:02 <da2ce7> the white perciperate can tell if if the inner part is dry or not. The lead stuff wasn't as ovious.
2013 2010-12-15 11:37:14 <xelister> Auctus: 1. cut bullshit 'help' 2. teach about aconomy (the fishingrod -vs- fish thing)?
2014 2010-12-15 11:37:15 <Diablo-D3> at least they're using metal heatshields now
2015 2010-12-15 11:37:19 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630])
2016 2010-12-15 11:37:28 <Diablo-D3> well yes, for one, stop giving them food at less than market prices
2017 2010-12-15 11:37:37 <ArtForz> heat spreaders aka heat transfer inhibitors
2018 2010-12-15 11:37:47 <Diablo-D3> everytime we start their farms up again, they go bankrupt because its cheaper to get US food instead of buy locally
2019 2010-12-15 11:38:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heat shields =P
2020 2010-12-15 11:38:23 <Diablo-D3> its better than those fucking black plastic chips or whatever the fuck that shit was
2021 2010-12-15 11:38:33 * xelister takes notes to say that to each fag happy about 'look look I donate to the affrica children <3' no you dont, shut the fuck up moralfag cunt
2022 2010-12-15 11:38:44 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes, thats another thing, NO one does
2023 2010-12-15 11:38:52 <Diablo-D3> you have to go through shit like kiva to even have a hope of helping africa
2024 2010-12-15 11:38:52 <xelister> no one das what?
2025 2010-12-15 11:39:00 <Diablo-D3> no one donates to the childreen
2026 2010-12-15 11:39:02 <xelister> kiva?
2027 2010-12-15 11:39:15 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2028 2010-12-15 11:39:24 <Diablo-D3> almost all that money that, say, that fat fucking blonde whore on TV sucks up, ends up fueling 30 year long civil wars
2029 2010-12-15 11:39:30 <Diablo-D3> instead of actually feeding anyone
2030 2010-12-15 11:39:33 <xelister> yea
2031 2010-12-15 11:39:42 <xelister> well that is messed up
2032 2010-12-15 11:39:42 <joe_1> africa is a lost cause they dont want to be saved they fight each other
2033 2010-12-15 11:39:45 <ArtForz> whats the point of donating for children? not exactly hard to make more...
2034 2010-12-15 11:39:56 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: no, outside forces continue to destroy africa
2035 2010-12-15 11:39:58 <xelister> even goodwill, without solid education, information, etc, will not work - same as democracy
2036 2010-12-15 11:40:03 <xelister> this is why we need to defend things like wikileaks
2037 2010-12-15 11:40:11 <Auctus> I almost want to start a Bitcoins For Africa fund just to mess with you guys.
2038 2010-12-15 11:40:12 <Diablo-D3> almost every ongoing war, and theres several, is fueled by outside interests
2039 2010-12-15 11:40:17 <Diablo-D3> such as BP trying to drill africa oil
2040 2010-12-15 11:40:26 <Diablo-D3> xelister: and no
2041 2010-12-15 11:40:27 <joe_1> why do outside people care
2042 2010-12-15 11:40:31 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I'm sorry
2043 2010-12-15 11:40:34 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: natural resources
2044 2010-12-15 11:40:35 <xelister> Diablo-D3: we are sorry
2045 2010-12-15 11:40:39 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I;m sorrrrrrry
2046 2010-12-15 11:40:46 * xelister plays golf on own super yaht
2047 2010-12-15 11:40:47 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the problem with education is we tell them HEY WEAR A CONDOM OR YOU GET AIDS
2048 2010-12-15 11:40:53 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I'm sorry <puppie eyes>
2049 2010-12-15 11:41:09 <Diablo-D3> and their fucking leaders go IF YOU WEAR A CONDOM, YOU'LL GO TO HELL, AND IF YOU HAVE AIDS, ITS BECAUSE YOU SINNED
2050 2010-12-15 11:41:13 <Diablo-D3> and they believe their leaders
2051 2010-12-15 11:41:23 <Diablo-D3> even though their leaders are warlords and are profiting from this
2052 2010-12-15 11:41:26 <xelister> well again, education, informations is mendatory nowdays
2053 2010-12-15 11:41:38 <Diablo-D3> if you want africa to grow up, you kill every goddamned one of these motherfuckers
2054 2010-12-15 11:41:40 <Diablo-D3> no war
2055 2010-12-15 11:41:44 <Diablo-D3> just outright assassination
2056 2010-12-15 11:41:58 <Auctus> joe_1, the more people you get earning good money, the more people you have spending good money. If no-one could afford $200 for Windows 7, Bill Gates wouldn't be so rich. When Africans start buying things, and the Chinese start buying things, theoretically, everyone is better off
2057 2010-12-15 11:42:14 <Diablo-D3> Auctus: why lump china in there?
2058 2010-12-15 11:42:18 <da2ce7> a free market breads peace. If you want aftica to become better, bring bitcoin to it.
2059 2010-12-15 11:42:22 <Diablo-D3> china has 6000 years of being the largest empire in history
2060 2010-12-15 11:42:24 <xelister> although
2061 2010-12-15 11:42:27 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, the Chinese are poor. They don't buy stuff.
2062 2010-12-15 11:42:34 <Auctus> I'm talking about economy.
2063 2010-12-15 11:42:37 <Diablo-D3> the chinese are not poor like the africans are
2064 2010-12-15 11:42:38 <xelister> Im not sure if freemarket and PURE capitalism is always the right solution, is it?
2065 2010-12-15 11:42:43 <Auctus> close enough.
2066 2010-12-15 11:42:47 <Diablo-D3> the africans cant trace back to the last time they had a major world empire
2067 2010-12-15 11:42:57 <Diablo-D3> the chinese HAVENT BEEN WITHOUT ONE _FOREVER_
2068 2010-12-15 11:43:10 <Diablo-D3> the current state of china is by choice.
2069 2010-12-15 11:43:16 <da2ce7> free market is always the right solution. It is useing trade insted of force.
2070 2010-12-15 11:43:23 <joe_1> well why do they keep fighting each other, can't the world powers dictate who gets what natural resource, fight everyone else down, and leave it at that?
2071 2010-12-15 11:43:32 <Diablo-D3> the free market is not always the right solution
2072 2010-12-15 11:43:33 <xelister> what if population A have 99% of money/resources and B have 1%. How can 1% ever work well even if they internally use capitalism
2073 2010-12-15 11:43:41 <Diablo-D3> because the free market is what keeos africa in poverty
2074 2010-12-15 11:43:52 <Diablo-D3> industrialized nations can produce stuff faster and better than locally
2075 2010-12-15 11:43:59 <Auctus> joe_1, who is fighting each other? The world powers are fighting over the resources too. China wants some, the US wants some, etc.
2076 2010-12-15 11:44:01 <da2ce7> lol, no that is coruption,
2077 2010-12-15 11:44:10 <da2ce7> and force.
2078 2010-12-15 11:44:27 <joe_1> that doesnt make sense wouldnt that be solved through diplomacy instaed of on the ground in africa?
2079 2010-12-15 11:44:33 <xelister> anyone? how much does 5970 weight?
2080 2010-12-15 11:44:38 <xelister> ArtForz: do you know? :)
2081 2010-12-15 11:44:42 <Diablo-D3> xelister: look it the fuck up
2082 2010-12-15 11:44:52 <xelister> I looked the fuck and it is nowhere to be found
2083 2010-12-15 11:45:05 <Auctus> joe_1, the africans I guess fight over who gets to sell the stuff to the foreigners. Whoever can steal the most and hand it to the foreigners wins, thus, a fight. I'm just making wild guesses, though.
2084 2010-12-15 11:45:26 <Diablo-D3> Auctus: thats smoothing over the issue
2085 2010-12-15 11:45:45 <Diablo-D3> BP and Shell and the rest of those fuckers are the new South
2086 2010-12-15 11:45:50 <ArtForz> about 2.5lbs
2087 2010-12-15 11:45:51 <da2ce7> the only sustanable econmic mode that has voluntary interations between people is free market captilsim
2088 2010-12-15 11:45:55 <Diablo-D3> they dont bother dragging their slaves to the US on ships anymore
2089 2010-12-15 11:46:00 mtgox has joined
2090 2010-12-15 11:46:00 <Diablo-D3> they just keep them in africa
2091 2010-12-15 11:46:11 <Diablo-D3> africans sell other africans to the white man
2092 2010-12-15 11:46:20 <Diablo-D3> and we're happy to buy them
2093 2010-12-15 11:47:00 <Diablo-D3> and we put them to work in our mines, that are in africa, and on our drilling rigs, and our cars run on the blood of africans
2094 2010-12-15 11:47:08 <Diablo-D3> this is the world we live in.
2095 2010-12-15 11:47:18 <Diablo-D3> dont like it? then get the fuck off IRC and do something about it
2096 2010-12-15 11:47:32 <Auctus> do what about it?
2097 2010-12-15 11:47:48 <joe_1> if we have slaves drilling all this then why is it so expensive
2098 2010-12-15 11:47:53 <Diablo-D3> destroy anyone profiting from it.
2099 2010-12-15 11:48:05 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: because dining on human flesh every day is expensive
2100 2010-12-15 11:48:12 <da2ce7> :D I don't mind slavery providing everyone has the right of bankruptsy. If you don't want to be a slave anyomre, you should have the right to break your contrack and become bankrupt.
2101 2010-12-15 11:48:27 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: you think these people have a choice?
2102 2010-12-15 11:48:28 <ArtForz> thats not slavery
2103 2010-12-15 11:48:34 lfm has joined
2104 2010-12-15 11:48:37 <Diablo-D3> you try to leave, you're shot
2105 2010-12-15 11:48:46 <Diablo-D3> and while you're bleeding to death, the guards rape your half dead body
2106 2010-12-15 11:49:11 <lfm> hello to you too
2107 2010-12-15 11:49:13 <da2ce7> lol, nope, they don't have the right of bankruptsy. they have the choice between force and force. It is not a voluntary socitey
2108 2010-12-15 11:49:22 <ArtForz> lol
2109 2010-12-15 11:49:33 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, destroy them by what means? They have billions of dollars and powerful friends.
2110 2010-12-15 11:49:35 <Diablo-D3> its not even a society.
2111 2010-12-15 11:49:38 <joe_1> the trouble is they dont have a tradition of law over there.
2112 2010-12-15 11:49:46 <Diablo-D3> Auctus: money cannot help them when they're dead.
2113 2010-12-15 11:49:57 <Diablo-D3> the world is controlled by about 100 people
2114 2010-12-15 11:50:07 <ArtForz> lfm: welcome back to #bitcoin-randomshit
2115 2010-12-15 11:50:08 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, if you killed one Shell executive, nothing would be accomplished, and you'd be in prison. What's Plan B?
2116 2010-12-15 11:50:09 <joe_1> i mean look how much trouble we had getting africans former slaves and descendents to assimilate into u.s. society
2117 2010-12-15 11:50:41 <Diablo-D3> Auctus: yes, I'd be a "terrorist" because I'm enforcing the Constitution and the rights of the every man by force.
2118 2010-12-15 11:50:44 <da2ce7> the problem is that they don't have a freemarket, people don't understand that rubbing eachothers back is more proffitable than forcing one annother to rub your back. There is more upkeep in forceing somebody that than to voluntary trade.
2119 2010-12-15 11:50:47 <Diablo-D3> Fuck us, we're going to fuck you twice as hard.
2120 2010-12-15 11:51:20 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, again, one guy doesn't solve a problem. So what's plan B?
2121 2010-12-15 11:51:35 <Diablo-D3> one guy DOES solve a problem
2122 2010-12-15 11:51:48 <Diablo-D3> who wants to be a CEO of a company that the CEO keeps being assassianted for war crimes.
2123 2010-12-15 11:51:58 <da2ce7> I think that people will be supprised how much good a money that is 'free as in freedom' will do.
2124 2010-12-15 11:52:09 <Auctus> You will avoid arrest after the serial murder of powerful politicians and executives?
2125 2010-12-15 11:52:25 <Diablo-D3> You can't stop the gears of progress, Auctus
2126 2010-12-15 11:52:25 <Auctus> Once you're arrested, no-one will follow in your footsteps
2127 2010-12-15 11:52:26 <da2ce7> it has the protental to do so much good!
2128 2010-12-15 11:52:31 <lfm> seems like you should be talking about BP instead of Shell
2129 2010-12-15 11:52:39 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, the problem is getting them started spinning, I think.
2130 2010-12-15 11:52:44 <Diablo-D3> lfm: Shell has had much larger impact in the world than BP ever has
2131 2010-12-15 11:53:09 <Diablo-D3> lfm: Shell has murdered people just to secure oil contracts in third world countries.
2132 2010-12-15 11:53:13 <ArtForz> lolwut
2133 2010-12-15 11:53:24 <xelister> Diablo-D3: examples?
2134 2010-12-15 11:53:33 <Diablo-D3> lfm: go read your 80s history.
2135 2010-12-15 11:53:37 <lfm> But I like Shell, They sponsor the Fararri f1 team
2136 2010-12-15 11:54:13 <Diablo-D3> No oil company can be trusted, but Shell can be trusted even less.
2137 2010-12-15 11:54:31 <xelister> lfm: "they sponsor.." what? wtf, get out of here fag
2138 2010-12-15 11:54:32 <da2ce7> can a bitcoin mineing company be trusted?
2139 2010-12-15 11:54:39 <xelister> da2ce7: uh?
2140 2010-12-15 11:54:45 <ArtForz> who cares abour ferrari? they're a bunch of faggots
2141 2010-12-15 11:54:56 <Auctus> ArtForz, elaborate
2142 2010-12-15 11:55:03 <Diablo-D3> worse yet, who cares about people who are paid a million dollars a year to drive an ugly car around a track
2143 2010-12-15 11:55:06 <da2ce7> lol, they may be european, but I doubt they are all gay.
2144 2010-12-15 11:55:14 <TD> this is reassuring
2145 2010-12-15 11:55:23 <TD> how much of the bitcoin cycle rate do you guys control again?
2146 2010-12-15 11:55:25 <Diablo-D3> sports teams arent _teams_
2147 2010-12-15 11:55:29 <Diablo-D3> they're companies.
2148 2010-12-15 11:55:36 <Diablo-D3> with employees.
2149 2010-12-15 11:56:07 <da2ce7> my local footty club is a pritty good team... maybe you mean bigger stuff
2150 2010-12-15 11:56:14 <da2ce7> *has a
2151 2010-12-15 11:56:24 <Diablo-D3> Wearing shirts with sports team logos on them should require you to have to pay taxes on it based on the going rate for corporate advertising
2152 2010-12-15 11:56:33 <ArtForz> ferrari has been a bunch of arrogant fags building cock compensation devices for decades, for real sports cars look at lamborghini
2153 2010-12-15 11:56:35 <Diablo-D3> Don't like it? Then don't advertise for a company.
2154 2010-12-15 11:57:04 <Auctus> ArtForz, sounds like rampant jealous of a non-Ferrari owner to me. They're famous for a reason. :P
2155 2010-12-15 11:57:06 <ArtForz> and read up why lamborghini started building cars in the first place
2156 2010-12-15 11:57:08 <Diablo-D3> It doesn't matter you didn't cash the check, you still advertised it.
2157 2010-12-15 11:57:21 <da2ce7> lol, :P well i'd agee that lamboghini has taste.
2158 2010-12-15 11:57:25 <Diablo-D3> lambo ever only made one good car anyhow
2159 2010-12-15 11:58:46 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2160 2010-12-15 11:58:48 <ArtForz> it's all dickwavery anyways
2161 2010-12-15 11:58:52 <Diablo-D3> come on, guess what it is
2162 2010-12-15 11:59:02 <da2ce7> lol, has more people had sex in farrai cars or lamborghini?
2163 2010-12-15 11:59:12 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: theres no fucking room
2164 2010-12-15 11:59:16 <ArtForz> *points at his vanagon*
2165 2010-12-15 11:59:23 <da2ce7> so 0 for either?
2166 2010-12-15 11:59:23 <Diablo-D3> if you're having sex on a ferrari or a lambo, you're doing it on the fucking hood
2167 2010-12-15 12:00:06 <ArtForz> 1000s of fucking hippies can't be wrong ;)
2168 2010-12-15 12:00:23 <Diablo-D3> and for those who are fucking fags, its the Countach
2169 2010-12-15 12:00:28 <Diablo-D3> the best fucking lambo ever
2170 2010-12-15 12:00:33 <da2ce7> lol, :P well then we can say that both ferrari and lamboghini are equaly good. but ferrari is better suited to gay sex.
2171 2010-12-15 12:00:54 <xelister> TD: around like 20Ghash I guess
2172 2010-12-15 12:01:20 <Diablo-D3> its all dick wavery anyhow
2173 2010-12-15 12:01:25 <Diablo-D3> give me a tesla roadster and I'll be happy
2174 2010-12-15 12:01:39 <lfm> I just like watching f1
2175 2010-12-15 12:02:01 RazielZ has joined
2176 2010-12-15 12:02:21 <TD> heh
2177 2010-12-15 12:03:40 <xelister> ArtForz: how much Ghash you hava again?
2178 2010-12-15 12:03:48 <ArtForz> 15.75
2179 2010-12-15 12:04:34 <da2ce7> :D nice there is a fair ammout of compitision tho.
2180 2010-12-15 12:04:35 <xelister> google bitches... why they show me distance in damn feets
2181 2010-12-15 12:06:44 <TD> ArtForz: that's a cluster of GPUs?
2182 2010-12-15 12:07:10 <ArtForz> small cluster
2183 2010-12-15 12:07:37 <joe_1> it's a huge cluster he heats his house with these things
2184 2010-12-15 12:07:59 <Diablo-D3> its over 9000 gpus
2185 2010-12-15 12:08:11 <ArtForz> 24 cards a huge cluster do not make
2186 2010-12-15 12:08:25 * TD has seen some pretty big clusters in his time
2187 2010-12-15 12:08:49 <ArtForz> anything < 100 nodes is in the "toy" category
2188 2010-12-15 12:09:10 <joe_1> i'll be happy with a 90 node toy
2189 2010-12-15 12:09:26 <joe_1> ima ask for it for christmas
2190 2010-12-15 12:09:35 <lfm> if you had it, youd prolly want more
2191 2010-12-15 12:09:44 <da2ce7> artforz, are you looking forward to the time you can buy the gpu's wholesale from the manufaturer?
2192 2010-12-15 12:10:02 <TD> how many regular cpu cores (say intel c2duo) is a gpu worth with that software?
2193 2010-12-15 12:10:08 <da2ce7> 50
2194 2010-12-15 12:10:24 <lfm> td amd cpus would work better for bitcoins
2195 2010-12-15 12:10:31 <ArtForz> thats sounds a bit low for c2ds
2196 2010-12-15 12:10:50 <TD> really? how so? they support some useful amd-specific vector ops or ... ?
2197 2010-12-15 12:10:51 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2198 2010-12-15 12:11:28 <lfm> amd is better for integer work, intel for floating point imho
2199 2010-12-15 12:11:36 <ArtForz> not really
2200 2010-12-15 12:11:39 <da2ce7> I'm intersted in seeing how the fusion preforms.
2201 2010-12-15 12:11:43 <ArtForz> K10 has 2 128-bit SIMD units per core
2202 2010-12-15 12:12:05 <ArtForz> intel i has 3 (but a crappy frontend, effectively 2...)
2203 2010-12-15 12:12:32 <ArtForz> iirc K8 and core2 have 2 64 bit SIMD units
2204 2010-12-15 12:13:52 altamic has joined
2205 2010-12-15 12:14:06 <ArtForz> c2d gets something like 2.5Mh/s
2206 2010-12-15 12:14:44 <ArtForz> so a single 5970 is more like > 100 CPUs
2207 2010-12-15 12:15:06 <andrew12> howe2sleepless
2208 2010-12-15 12:15:25 <lfm> phenom x4 gets 11+ Mh/s
2209 2010-12-15 12:15:37 <ArtForz> yup
2210 2010-12-15 12:15:48 <ArtForz> kinda obvious
2211 2010-12-15 12:16:31 <ArtForz> double the SIMD units per core, double the cores, usually clocked higher than core2
2212 2010-12-15 12:16:43 <da2ce7> well goodnight guys, here is a track to keep you going... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm8bAxK8Hc
2213 2010-12-15 12:17:07 RichardG has joined
2214 2010-12-15 12:17:31 <xelister> new topic though
2215 2010-12-15 12:17:34 <xelister> FAG PHONES
2216 2010-12-15 12:17:36 <andrew12> ArtForz secretly cracked bitcoin to give all the generated coins to him :O
2217 2010-12-15 12:17:37 <xelister> cellphones
2218 2010-12-15 12:17:38 <xelister> by fags
2219 2010-12-15 12:17:40 <xelister> for fags
2220 2010-12-15 12:17:47 <xelister> why today it is hard to find a normal phones
2221 2010-12-15 12:18:03 <xelister> that doesnt make 3d animations vidoese play framwile and give blowjob, but just allows to make fucking phone calls.
2222 2010-12-15 12:18:05 <da2ce7> you guys are so gay.
2223 2010-12-15 12:18:09 <andrew12> >a normal phones
2224 2010-12-15 12:18:11 <xelister> without hanging each 2-3 days
2225 2010-12-15 12:18:22 <xelister> or being virusable or other shite
2226 2010-12-15 12:18:34 <andrew12> you're funny
2227 2010-12-15 12:18:42 <xelister> no seriously, I need a phone
2228 2010-12-15 12:18:57 <da2ce7> (nsfw) go to http://bitcoingayxxx.com/
2229 2010-12-15 12:19:01 <xelister> that works as phone and that is it, without all the faggotry "multimedia entertainment shite" - but instead is realible etc
2230 2010-12-15 12:19:18 <xelister> and it appears such phones are noweehre to be found
2231 2010-12-15 12:19:36 <ArtForz> you're looking in the wrong place
2232 2010-12-15 12:19:38 <xelister> *all* phones I seen in last years, EVERY PHONE, did hang or crashed or shit
2233 2010-12-15 12:19:39 <andrew12> you don't need to install any of the "multimedia entertainment shite"
2234 2010-12-15 12:20:01 <xelister> andrew12: Im speaking aobut hte hardware and default OS
2235 2010-12-15 12:20:22 <andrew12> 'tis wrong
2236 2010-12-15 12:20:34 <andrew12> the droid didn't come with anything more than default apps
2237 2010-12-15 12:20:39 <xelister> yeah
2238 2010-12-15 12:20:42 <xelister> why any the fuck apps
2239 2010-12-15 12:20:53 <xelister> I want to make damn phonecalls, not run a computer
2240 2010-12-15 12:20:54 <doublec> the nokia 1100 seems made for you
2241 2010-12-15 12:22:18 <lfm> there are no gay phones, just gay apps
2242 2010-12-15 12:23:39 <andrew12> xelister: but a phone, whether it's got fancy shit or not, is a computer
2243 2010-12-15 12:23:41 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2244 2010-12-15 12:24:13 <ArtForz> so is a microwave
2245 2010-12-15 12:24:15 <xelister> andrew12: yeah but it could allow 1) making voice GSM calls
2246 2010-12-15 12:24:21 <xelister> instead of milion functions including java shit
2247 2010-12-15 12:24:27 <xelister> camera
2248 2010-12-15 12:24:30 <andrew12> lol
2249 2010-12-15 12:24:31 <xelister> accelometers, gps
2250 2010-12-15 12:24:43 <xelister> and 20 buildin apps, file system etc
2251 2010-12-15 12:24:57 <doublec> there are plenty of phones like that
2252 2010-12-15 12:25:00 <ArtForz> I <3 ruggedized dumbphones
2253 2010-12-15 12:25:01 <andrew12> yeah i do agree that they're stuffing too much into it, and even using java
2254 2010-12-15 12:25:05 <lfm> yes, far less geeky to carry separate phone, camera, gps etc
2255 2010-12-15 12:25:28 <andrew12> stuffing too much into it and making it puke by adding java
2256 2010-12-15 12:25:29 <andrew12> :P
2257 2010-12-15 12:25:45 <andrew12> s/adding/using/
2258 2010-12-15 12:26:12 <Auctus> you'd be a fool not to have a smartphone if it was in your budget. With a smartphone and a multitool, you can pretty much do anything.
2259 2010-12-15 12:26:30 <Amiga4000> oh, java is not really bad
2260 2010-12-15 12:26:34 <Amiga4000> if done right ;-)
2261 2010-12-15 12:26:34 <Auctus> An android phone has a compass, GPS, turn-by-turn navigation, you can point it at a foreign language sign or whatever and it will tell you in english what it says
2262 2010-12-15 12:26:55 <Amiga4000> I cannot fly with a smartphone
2263 2010-12-15 12:26:57 <Auctus> you can point it at the sky it will tell you what star you're looking at, a barcode will tell you where you can get that product the cheapest, or torrent it if you want it to
2264 2010-12-15 12:27:03 <ArtForz> java done right? running on HURD I guess?
2265 2010-12-15 12:27:15 <Auctus> You can download wikipedia to an SD card nad keep it in your pocket if you want.
2266 2010-12-15 12:27:19 <Auctus> and*
2267 2010-12-15 12:27:30 <Amiga4000> Java has some issues, but it takes lots of problems from coders
2268 2010-12-15 12:27:44 <Amiga4000> memory management/garbage collection e.g.
2269 2010-12-15 12:27:58 <Amiga4000> and brainf*ck or whitespace is far worse than java
2270 2010-12-15 12:28:18 <ArtForz> yes, let's create 1000 of short-lived objects and have the GC figure it out
2271 2010-12-15 12:28:35 <Amiga4000> and for being runable on more than 1 or 2 systems, java is nice, to
2272 2010-12-15 12:28:42 <Auctus> Before long, smartphones will be able to drive your car for you if you fall asleep... Heh.
2273 2010-12-15 12:29:09 <andrew12> yay brainfuck!
2274 2010-12-15 12:29:10 <xelister> Auctus: or fuck ur wife
2275 2010-12-15 12:29:12 <Amiga4000> writing a portable program on C++ is a pain. really.
2276 2010-12-15 12:29:56 * Diablo-D3 looks into channel
2277 2010-12-15 12:29:56 <andrew12> s/portable //
2278 2010-12-15 12:29:59 <ArtForz> if you are doing anything nontrivial, writing a portable program in java is too
2279 2010-12-15 12:30:00 nelisky has joined
2280 2010-12-15 12:30:02 * Diablo-D3 sees a troll saying java has some issues
2281 2010-12-15 12:30:11 * Diablo-D3 laughs and goes back to work
2282 2010-12-15 12:30:50 <Amiga4000> something non trivial is a pain in C, in C++ and all others, to
2283 2010-12-15 12:30:55 <ArtForz> yep
2284 2010-12-15 12:30:59 <Auctus> xelister, I have owned a dozen dumbphones, my brother gave me a G1 android phone. There is no single area in which any of dumbphones beat the G1 by any noticable margin. And the G1 was the first android phone to market, they've only gotten better since.
2285 2010-12-15 12:31:25 * andrew12 ^5 Auctus
2286 2010-12-15 12:31:30 <ArtForz> how about the "drop it off a motorbike at 60mph" area?
2287 2010-12-15 12:31:52 <Diablo-D3> and the G1 actually sucks
2288 2010-12-15 12:31:53 <Auctus> ArtForz, two years on, drops and liquids, still going as strong as day 1.
2289 2010-12-15 12:32:01 <Diablo-D3> its worse than android phones that came out before it
2290 2010-12-15 12:32:02 <UukGoblin> Auctus, the g1 sucks hard
2291 2010-12-15 12:32:16 <Diablo-D3> so if dumbphones, such as the iphone, are inferior to the g1
2292 2010-12-15 12:32:20 <Diablo-D3> the droid x must blow your dick off
2293 2010-12-15 12:32:20 <UukGoblin> whoever thought 96mb of ram would be enough for it was an idiot
2294 2010-12-15 12:32:21 <ArtForz> and yes, I've done that with (to ?) my phones :P
2295 2010-12-15 12:32:23 <Auctus> UukGoblin, so does having millions of dollars and beautiful women. What a silly argument.
2296 2010-12-15 12:32:32 <xelister> Diablo-D3: you dony understand
2297 2010-12-15 12:32:38 <andrew12> dony
2298 2010-12-15 12:32:39 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I need phone with NO COMPLEX SHIT
2299 2010-12-15 12:32:41 <Diablo-D3> dony
2300 2010-12-15 12:32:44 <xelister> that can have thousands of bugs
2301 2010-12-15 12:32:54 <Diablo-D3> xelister: bugs? in android? are you serious?
2302 2010-12-15 12:32:55 <andrew12> xelister: write it yourself!
2303 2010-12-15 12:33:00 <johndrinkwater> xelister: buying a johns phone next?
2304 2010-12-15 12:33:09 <xelister> Diablo-D3: didnt android had dozen of sec bugs
2305 2010-12-15 12:33:17 <UukGoblin> Auctus, i'm using one right now. maybe it doesn't suck as much as android itself, but it does suck with its tiny amount of ram
2306 2010-12-15 12:33:18 <Diablo-D3> no, but openbsd did
2307 2010-12-15 12:33:28 <Amiga4000> yeah, a mobile just need to telephone. thats the job of a mobile. Sometime I wonder if later smartphones needs to tell that as a payable extra "and it does calls, TO!"
2308 2010-12-15 12:33:49 <ArtForz> well, some crackberries fall into that category
2309 2010-12-15 12:33:50 <andrew12> too*
2310 2010-12-15 12:34:05 <UukGoblin> i disagree
2311 2010-12-15 12:34:08 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, the G1 isn't worse than android phones that came out before it, it was the first android phone on the market, kinda makes anything else you say seem questionable, eh?
2312 2010-12-15 12:34:19 <UukGoblin> hardware should be able to do anything it can do
2313 2010-12-15 12:34:40 <UukGoblin> if you want it as a mobile phone, it should make calls
2314 2010-12-15 12:34:56 <UukGoblin> if you want it as a portable 3d viewer, it should do that
2315 2010-12-15 12:35:00 <Amiga4000> a mobile is a phone. it needs to call
2316 2010-12-15 12:35:09 <UukGoblin> definitely
2317 2010-12-15 12:35:09 <Amiga4000> if you want a mobile 3d viwer, buy one.
2318 2010-12-15 12:35:18 <andrew12> Amiga4000: a mobile phone is a phone
2319 2010-12-15 12:35:24 <Amiga4000> but if you combine to much in a to small device, it will fail
2320 2010-12-15 12:35:28 <andrew12> a smartphone is a phone that can do whatever the fuck you want it to do
2321 2010-12-15 12:35:37 <UukGoblin> no, why would i want to have a million devices in my pocket if one can do the job of them all?
2322 2010-12-15 12:35:52 <Amiga4000> watching movies on a iPhone is a pain. it sucks. so does on android smartphones.
2323 2010-12-15 12:35:54 <andrew12> UukGoblin: and if it's much smaller :)
2324 2010-12-15 12:36:02 <andrew12> Amiga4000: then don't watch movies on it
2325 2010-12-15 12:36:03 <Diablo-D3> [07:32:45] <Auctus> Diablo-D3, the G1 isn't worse than android phones that came out before it, it was the first android phone on the market, kinda makes anything else you say seem questionable, eh?
2326 2010-12-15 12:36:04 <andrew12> problem solved
2327 2010-12-15 12:36:05 <Diablo-D3> wanst the FIRST
2328 2010-12-15 12:36:21 <Amiga4000> right, andrew12, but is there a only mobile without all that extra available?
2329 2010-12-15 12:36:22 nova has joined
2330 2010-12-15 12:36:31 <Diablo-D3> just one of the first.
2331 2010-12-15 12:36:50 <andrew12> Amiga4000: sure. take any android phone that's rootable and edit the android code so you don't have all the other shit
2332 2010-12-15 12:36:52 <UukGoblin> android is shit on its own
2333 2010-12-15 12:36:59 <xelister> is it?
2334 2010-12-15 12:37:05 <UukGoblin> putting java where it's definitely not suitable
2335 2010-12-15 12:37:06 <andrew12> i don't think so
2336 2010-12-15 12:37:10 <xelister> well should be better then gayphone
2337 2010-12-15 12:37:19 <Amiga4000> andrew12: no, thats the wrong way. I do not want to hack something to be useful. I want something useful from day 0 on.
2338 2010-12-15 12:37:22 <andrew12> gayphone = iphone?
2339 2010-12-15 12:37:24 <xelister> y
2340 2010-12-15 12:37:38 <UukGoblin> some crazy new skia library instead of old and well tested xorg
2341 2010-12-15 12:37:44 <Amiga4000> java is portable, which makes it nice on smartphones.
2342 2010-12-15 12:37:45 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: fail.
2343 2010-12-15 12:38:00 <UukGoblin> not able to run linux apps properly because of bad design
2344 2010-12-15 12:38:03 <andrew12> Amiga4000: now you're changing words. android is useful, just not in the way you want
2345 2010-12-15 12:38:19 <andrew12> android doesn't use xorg
2346 2010-12-15 12:38:25 <andrew12> oh
2347 2010-12-15 12:38:28 <UukGoblin> advocate foogle market apps over long existing and much better free ones
2348 2010-12-15 12:38:29 <andrew12> i misread what you said
2349 2010-12-15 12:38:33 <Amiga4000> andrew12: right. but you told me, if I want a mobile only, I should buy android. But I want to call only., why should I pay android?
2350 2010-12-15 12:38:42 <Amiga4000> or even hack android?
2351 2010-12-15 12:38:49 <UukGoblin> Amiga4000, lots of stuff is portable
2352 2010-12-15 12:38:59 <Auctus> Diablo-D3, don't make me start citing shit. http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=66338&lang=1033
2353 2010-12-15 12:39:01 <andrew12> Amiga4000: I dunno lol o_o
2354 2010-12-15 12:39:14 <Auctus> "NEW YORK Â Sept. 23, 2008 Â T-Mobile today announced the international launch of the worldÂs first AndroidÂ-powered mobile phone in partnership with Google."
2355 2010-12-15 12:39:23 <UukGoblin> why can't i run maxima or qalculate on my phone? why do i have to bother with some crap calculators available on market?
2356 2010-12-15 12:39:36 <UukGoblin> answer: bad design
2357 2010-12-15 12:39:40 <andrew12> well
2358 2010-12-15 12:39:44 <UukGoblin> i actually can run them over vnc
2359 2010-12-15 12:39:47 <Amiga4000> UukGoblin: do it better ;-)
2360 2010-12-15 12:39:50 <UukGoblin> which is crazy
2361 2010-12-15 12:39:53 <Amiga4000> it is free to code
2362 2010-12-15 12:40:00 <andrew12> there were android phones before the android startup joined w/ google
2363 2010-12-15 12:40:20 <UukGoblin> i would write it better, just don't have time and money
2364 2010-12-15 12:40:24 <andrew12> they just weren't selling them
2365 2010-12-15 12:42:07 altamic_ has joined
2366 2010-12-15 12:43:32 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2367 2010-12-15 12:44:00 <UukGoblin> Auctus, Diablo-D3 is a java fun, that kinda puts everything he says in question for me ;)
2368 2010-12-15 12:44:47 <andrew12> so how about that gingerbread
2369 2010-12-15 12:45:34 <andrew12> Cupcake, Dount, Eclair, Froyo, Gingerbread.. what was A and B?
2370 2010-12-15 12:45:37 <UukGoblin> i'm just having a burger, maybe later, thanks
2371 2010-12-15 12:46:34 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2372 2010-12-15 12:46:34 altamic_ is now known as altamic
2373 2010-12-15 12:49:33 <andrew12> Alpha, Beta
2374 2010-12-15 12:49:34 <andrew12> :p
2375 2010-12-15 12:50:33 <UukGoblin> 1.5 wasn't beta i don't think
2376 2010-12-15 12:50:49 <UukGoblin> or was it 1.4 that was pre-cupcake..
2377 2010-12-15 12:50:50 <RichardG> https://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoin_miners#khash_rate_reports
2378 2010-12-15 12:50:54 <RichardG> added my results on there
2379 2010-12-15 12:50:55 <andrew12> yeah I know. I just couldn't think of anything else :p
2380 2010-12-15 12:53:00 joe_1 has quit ()
2381 2010-12-15 12:55:31 RichardG has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: -1 seconds)
2382 2010-12-15 12:55:36 RichardG has joined
2383 2010-12-15 12:55:36 RichardG has quit (Changing host)
2384 2010-12-15 12:55:36 RichardG has joined
2385 2010-12-15 12:57:17 <RichardG> I'm doing a wiki mass contribution, collecting results off topic 1628
2386 2010-12-15 13:05:03 <TD> andrew12: cupcake was the first one with a public name
2387 2010-12-15 13:05:14 <andrew12> I figured
2388 2010-12-15 13:05:17 <TD> andrew12: the one before that was known as "petit four". the first version of android did not have a cake name
2389 2010-12-15 13:05:29 darrob has joined
2390 2010-12-15 13:07:54 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2391 2010-12-15 13:09:23 Grantt is now known as Granttt
2392 2010-12-15 13:09:25 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
2393 2010-12-15 13:09:25 Granttt has joined
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2395 2010-12-15 13:16:21 cykros has quit (Quit: leaving)
2396 2010-12-15 13:19:09 <Diablo-D3> [07:42:37] <UukGoblin> Auctus, Diablo-D3 is a java fun, that kinda puts everything he says in question for me ;
2397 2010-12-15 13:19:19 <Diablo-D3> I use what works
2398 2010-12-15 13:20:06 <andrew12> hmm
2399 2010-12-15 13:20:14 <andrew12> hexidecimal sudoku?
2400 2010-12-15 13:20:15 <andrew12> :p
2401 2010-12-15 13:22:03 CyanDynamo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2402 2010-12-15 13:26:21 <UukGoblin> s/fun/fan/
2403 2010-12-15 13:26:23 jettero has joined
2404 2010-12-15 13:26:27 <RichardG> ;;bc,calc 340000
2405 2010-12-15 13:26:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 340000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 day, 18 hours, 59 minutes, and 30 seconds
2406 2010-12-15 13:26:39 <RichardG> impressed at http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1628.msg26363#msg26363 's performance
2407 2010-12-15 13:28:37 <ArtForz> impressed by 340Mh/s?
2408 2010-12-15 13:30:52 <RichardG> yes.
2409 2010-12-15 13:31:12 <ArtForz> a 5970 is doing about 535 stock
2410 2010-12-15 13:31:36 <ArtForz> about 625 OCed
2411 2010-12-15 13:31:39 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but not 680 =P
2412 2010-12-15 13:32:13 <ArtForz> actually not much of a problem, but I dont like running that high vcore
2413 2010-12-15 13:32:14 <Diablo-D3> actually, wait, whats doing 340?
2414 2010-12-15 13:32:20 <ArtForz> 5870
2415 2010-12-15 13:32:38 <RichardG> https://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoin_miners#khash_rate_reports
2416 2010-12-15 13:32:42 <RichardG> done taking results from topic 1628
2417 2010-12-15 13:32:48 <Diablo-D3> ahh
2418 2010-12-15 13:33:12 <RichardG> also did a mass formatting cleanup, discrepancies everywhere
2419 2010-12-15 13:33:20 <UukGoblin> oh, regarding vcore
2420 2010-12-15 13:33:28 <UukGoblin> I tried increasing from 1.125 to 1.15
2421 2010-12-15 13:33:33 <RichardG> some places with right vs. left vs. centered text, different khash precision...
2422 2010-12-15 13:33:34 <RichardG> bbl
2423 2010-12-15 13:33:38 <UukGoblin> but couldn't get a temperature read out afterwards :-/
2424 2010-12-15 13:34:00 <ArtForz> thats... weird
2425 2010-12-15 13:34:10 <ArtForz> at 1.15 I got ~920MHz
2426 2010-12-15 13:34:37 <UukGoblin> perhaps the BIOS wasn't edited properly
2427 2010-12-15 13:34:42 <ArtForz> probably
2428 2010-12-15 13:35:10 <Amiga4000> RichardG: you could add a gfroce480GTX with win 7 64bit mOm miner at ~88Mhashes/sec
2429 2010-12-15 13:35:13 <ArtForz> I just edited mine myself with RBE
2430 2010-12-15 13:35:33 <ArtForz> at 1.1625 my good cards were doing 950
2431 2010-12-15 13:35:33 <ArtForz> errr... 910 @ 1.15
2432 2010-12-15 13:35:46 <ArtForz> good cards did about 920-930 @ 1.15
2433 2010-12-15 13:35:49 <Amiga4000> and a win 7 64bit amd 1055T hexcore 3.2 Ghz with 7000 khashes on plain
2434 2010-12-15 13:36:42 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure on water at 1.18-1.20V a decent 5970 should be able to hit 999
2435 2010-12-15 13:37:52 <ArtForz> if it werent for the badly cooled 3-phase VRMs they could do it on air
2436 2010-12-15 13:39:50 <Diablo-D3> Amiga4000: why would he use m0's miner though
2437 2010-12-15 13:40:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you know, there would be a market for pre-overclocked insanity
2438 2010-12-15 13:40:22 <Diablo-D3> use epic vrms that are shit proof
2439 2010-12-15 13:40:35 <Diablo-D3> and then pair it with a block of 1 pound of pure copper
2440 2010-12-15 13:40:41 <UukGoblin> VRM? Voltage Regulator Module?
2441 2010-12-15 13:40:43 <Amiga4000> Diablo-D3: because it runs now. and there was a easy guide to follow.
2442 2010-12-15 13:40:49 <ArtForz> you're describing ARES
2443 2010-12-15 13:41:02 <UukGoblin> I wonder... why can't PSUs do that job?
2444 2010-12-15 13:41:21 <UukGoblin> they'd surely be more efficient
2445 2010-12-15 13:41:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont really mean the 5870x2 rigs
2446 2010-12-15 13:41:26 <ArtForz> ever tried getting 1.1V @ 300A somewhere?
2447 2010-12-15 13:41:32 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: they do technically
2448 2010-12-15 13:41:38 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2449 2010-12-15 13:41:40 <Diablo-D3> but theres no standard for really low voltage shit
2450 2010-12-15 13:41:44 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, uhm
2451 2010-12-15 13:41:49 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, well, no
2452 2010-12-15 13:41:49 <Diablo-D3> we'd actually be better off with 50 amps of like 3.3v
2453 2010-12-15 13:41:59 <Diablo-D3> instead of in 12v
2454 2010-12-15 13:42:06 <ArtForz> not really
2455 2010-12-15 13:42:51 <ArtForz> remember, P = I**2 * R
2456 2010-12-15 13:43:03 <Diablo-D3> Im not an EE, remember?
2457 2010-12-15 13:43:16 <UukGoblin> I'm not an EE either, but that's common sense
2458 2010-12-15 13:43:29 <UukGoblin> you'd obviously need uber thick and short wires
2459 2010-12-15 13:43:31 <ArtForz> so to keep wiring loss the same, if you halve voltage you have to quadruple the cross section
2460 2010-12-15 13:43:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: okay, so?
2461 2010-12-15 13:44:09 <ArtForz> well, I certainly wouldnt look forward to route welding cable around a PC case...
2462 2010-12-15 13:44:15 <Diablo-D3> thats not what I mean
2463 2010-12-15 13:44:20 <Diablo-D3> you'd have to switch to low loss cabling
2464 2010-12-15 13:44:29 <Diablo-D3> and you'd also need less power to begin with
2465 2010-12-15 13:44:53 <UukGoblin> or just build the card into the PSU
2466 2010-12-15 13:44:56 <UukGoblin> oh hang on
2467 2010-12-15 13:45:00 <UukGoblin> it needs to be close to CPU too
2468 2010-12-15 13:45:00 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: lol voodoo 5
2469 2010-12-15 13:45:01 <UukGoblin> shit.
2470 2010-12-15 13:45:02 <ArtForz> "cheap, fast, efficient, pick two"
2471 2010-12-15 13:45:23 <UukGoblin> fast + efficient please
2472 2010-12-15 13:45:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but the VRMs would be far more efficient if they didnt need to go from such an extreme difference
2473 2010-12-15 13:45:37 <ArtForz> no problem, thats $10000 per card
2474 2010-12-15 13:45:52 <tcatm> Superconducting wires to the GPU :D
2475 2010-12-15 13:45:56 <Diablo-D3> how much power is being lost through the VRM array?
2476 2010-12-15 13:46:00 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: actually, thats the main reason we use polyphase VRMs
2477 2010-12-15 13:46:02 <UukGoblin> tcatm, now THAT's a thought
2478 2010-12-15 13:46:23 <ArtForz> each VRMs on-time is roughly Vout/Vin
2479 2010-12-15 13:47:17 <ArtForz> and making decent switching power MOSFETs < 5V or so is really hard
2480 2010-12-15 13:47:24 <Diablo-D3> heh, the problem with superconducting metamaterials is that until the monks hidden beneath the himilayas finally decide the time has come for them to help society, what can we do
2481 2010-12-15 13:47:55 <ArtForz> lower voltage = thinner gate oxide = more susceptible to manufacturing variations
2482 2010-12-15 13:48:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how do the VRMs work now anyhow?
2483 2010-12-15 13:48:27 * kiba wakes up
2484 2010-12-15 13:48:29 <kiba> BOOOOOOOO
2485 2010-12-15 13:48:35 <ArtForz> usually digitally controlled synchronous step-down converters
2486 2010-12-15 13:49:03 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but what stops me from doubling the number of VRMs
2487 2010-12-15 13:49:17 <ArtForz> PCB space and parts cost
2488 2010-12-15 13:49:31 <UukGoblin> and difficulty of soldering on multilayered PCBs I guess
2489 2010-12-15 13:49:57 <ArtForz> otherwise you'd use 10+ phase VRMs for 12V->1.x V
2490 2010-12-15 13:50:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but at this point we could be looking at true double sided boards
2491 2010-12-15 13:50:15 <Diablo-D3> which would increase cooling efficiency
2492 2010-12-15 13:50:38 <ArtForz> well, or card mfgs could just use the full board length
2493 2010-12-15 13:50:51 <Diablo-D3> full length boards have problems in most cases
2494 2010-12-15 13:50:52 <tcatm> Diablo-D3: Probably not allowed in PCI-E specs ;)
2495 2010-12-15 13:51:03 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: double wide cards arent really aloud
2496 2010-12-15 13:51:06 <Diablo-D3> er, allowed
2497 2010-12-15 13:51:11 <Diablo-D3> they ARE really loud
2498 2010-12-15 13:51:13 <ArtForz> yes they are
2499 2010-12-15 13:51:26 <ArtForz> I have the revised CEM spec here
2500 2010-12-15 13:51:30 <Diablo-D3> nothing stops you from making triple wide, blocking on both sides
2501 2010-12-15 13:51:55 <ArtForz> max allowed component height on back side is 3mm
2502 2010-12-15 13:52:05 <ArtForz> and btw, theres plenty space on 5970 PCBs
2503 2010-12-15 13:52:21 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
2504 2010-12-15 13:52:32 <Diablo-D3> that ddoesnt explain why people HAVENT doubled them though
2505 2010-12-15 13:52:36 <tcatm> Also, double sided mounted components doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Better glue two cards back to back together.
2506 2010-12-15 13:52:41 <ArtForz> the area below the fan is mostly ... nothing
2507 2010-12-15 13:53:07 <Diablo-D3> because it'd improve efficiency while increasing total surface area to dump heat, right?
2508 2010-12-15 13:53:38 <ArtForz> to improve cooling, check out alu or copper-cored PCBs :P
2509 2010-12-15 13:53:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I was about to ask that
2510 2010-12-15 13:54:12 <Diablo-D3> why cant they put alu foil below components that dont have pin arrays
2511 2010-12-15 13:54:27 <Diablo-D3> to reflect the heat away from the PCB
2512 2010-12-15 13:54:59 <Diablo-D3> because lots of chips have pins that come out the sides
2513 2010-12-15 13:55:07 <ArtForz> used to have
2514 2010-12-15 13:56:00 <ArtForz> BGA is more common nowadays
2515 2010-12-15 13:56:59 <ArtForz> or leadless *SOPs
2516 2010-12-15 13:57:46 <tcatm> Drill hole through PCB, use ICs with thermal pads and attach heatsink through hole on backside :)
2517 2010-12-15 13:58:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and didnt you say they had VRMs that would survive very high temps?
2518 2010-12-15 13:59:10 <ArtForz> the spec sheet says, one blowing up says they don't
2519 2010-12-15 13:59:19 <Diablo-D3> heh
2520 2010-12-15 14:02:25 <Diablo-D3> but I am right that using more of them would lower the heat output per VRM, right?
2521 2010-12-15 14:02:32 <ArtForz> yep
2522 2010-12-15 14:03:04 kiba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2523 2010-12-15 14:03:32 kiba has joined
2524 2010-12-15 14:03:38 <EvanR> idea: a site for people to sell stuff pool-style where the price is higher but the customers cooperate to 'unlock' the 'good' for free downloading
2525 2010-12-15 14:03:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: this should be easy then
2526 2010-12-15 14:03:58 <EvanR> one of the first things to sell on it, the source code for the website
2527 2010-12-15 14:05:23 <EvanR> backend stuff would handle keeping partial payments, returning money to customers sometimes, or returning money to those who overpaid
2528 2010-12-15 14:05:50 <EvanR> and sending profits to merchants
2529 2010-12-15 14:12:06 <kiba> EvanR: so many idea, so little execution
2530 2010-12-15 14:22:24 gavinandresen has joined
2531 2010-12-15 14:22:29 altamic has joined
2532 2010-12-15 14:22:33 darrob has joined
2533 2010-12-15 14:26:03 snaked_mobile has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2534 2010-12-15 14:26:51 TheAncientGoat has joined
2535 2010-12-15 14:27:46 EvanR-work has joined
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2537 2010-12-15 14:36:08 pp22 has quit (Client Quit)
2538 2010-12-15 14:37:27 Zarutian has joined
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2541 2010-12-15 14:42:08 Grantt has joined
2542 2010-12-15 14:44:07 <lolcat> The bitcoin VPS services, is there any good ones?
2543 2010-12-15 14:44:37 <kiba> lolcat: yeah, but I don't use any of them
2544 2010-12-15 14:44:56 <lolcat> But you have tried them?
2545 2010-12-15 14:45:02 <lolcat> Any with unmetered 100mbit?
2546 2010-12-15 14:45:10 Granttt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2547 2010-12-15 14:45:30 <kiba> no sir
2548 2010-12-15 14:45:45 <lolcat> I've used ~908GB bandwith so far this month...
2549 2010-12-15 14:47:05 <lolcat> Guess that will be expencive?
2550 2010-12-15 14:47:25 <kiba> probably
2551 2010-12-15 14:48:02 <lolcat> It is sick, I pay $20USD for it. On linode I'd have to pay at least 60USD and I wouldnt get the same amount of bandwith
2552 2010-12-15 14:48:30 * kiba wonders how lolcat can use that much bandwidth within a month
2553 2010-12-15 14:48:50 <lolcat> I could use FAR more xD
2554 2010-12-15 14:49:00 <ArtForz> 100 gigs is trivial
2555 2010-12-15 14:49:07 <lolcat> but the harddrive on my VPS is limiting me
2556 2010-12-15 14:49:25 <lolcat> 40GB isn't enough...
2557 2010-12-15 14:49:37 <bd_> Use S3 or something"?
2558 2010-12-15 14:49:54 <bd_> And... what provider is giving you 908GB for $20USD/mo?
2559 2010-12-15 14:50:42 <ArtForz> you would be pretty embarassed just how cheap bulk traffic is once you get big enough
2560 2010-12-15 14:51:08 <lolcat> bd_: vps9.net
2561 2010-12-15 14:51:27 <lolcat> I could get a extra 50GB for 10$
2562 2010-12-15 14:52:18 <lolcat> "Does the offer still stand? If so, ME WANT!
2563 2010-12-15 14:52:19 <lolcat> "
2564 2010-12-15 14:52:33 <lolcat> I emailed them that, as a reply, it is a bit old so I hope I still can get it
2565 2010-12-15 14:52:52 <bd_> lolcat: how long have you been using them?
2566 2010-12-15 14:52:59 <lolcat> 3-4 months
2567 2010-12-15 14:54:47 jcw9 has joined
2568 2010-12-15 14:55:06 <ArtForz> okay, wtf
2569 2010-12-15 14:55:07 <bd_> lolcat: hmm... maybe I'll give them a try someday
2570 2010-12-15 14:55:23 <ArtForz> just got a major WTF in a online shop
2571 2010-12-15 14:55:45 <bd_> lolcat: ... btw, what are you doing with 900GB of bandwidth? >_>;
2572 2010-12-15 14:56:27 <kiba> http://pastecoin.com/download.php?file=89
2573 2010-12-15 14:56:39 <lolcat> Just ideling at a lot of irc channels xD
2574 2010-12-15 14:56:49 <lolcat> No, diffrent stuff. Not very interessting
2575 2010-12-15 14:57:08 <ArtForz> created account, logged in, apparently I'm Ossama Shafik from Egypt?
2576 2010-12-15 14:57:17 <kiba> rofl
2577 2010-12-15 14:57:46 <lfm> so did you give them your credit card number?
2578 2010-12-15 14:57:51 <ArtForz> nope
2579 2010-12-15 14:58:14 <ArtForz> and this isnt some random shop
2580 2010-12-15 14:58:58 <kiba> newsegg?
2581 2010-12-15 14:59:09 <ArtForz> nope, trenz electronic
2582 2010-12-15 14:59:12 <ArtForz> main german distributor of digilent dev boards
2583 2010-12-15 14:59:14 <lfm> amazon?
2584 2010-12-15 14:59:23 <EvanR-work> haha
2585 2010-12-15 14:59:45 <lfm> hardware shop, doesnt know software
2586 2010-12-15 15:01:04 <ArtForz> apparently Mr. Shafik ordered 2 Samtec connectors in July
2587 2010-12-15 15:01:20 <lfm> did they give you ossama shafik's credit card number?
2588 2010-12-15 15:01:35 <ArtForz> nope
2589 2010-12-15 15:02:09 <lfm> i guess that means their security is good enuf
2590 2010-12-15 15:02:14 <ArtForz> wonder how the fuck one can fuck up a webshop this badly
2591 2010-12-15 15:02:17 <gavinandresen> They've got a session handling bug.
2592 2010-12-15 15:02:20 <ArtForz> yep
2593 2010-12-15 15:03:31 <RichardG> <Amiga4000> RichardG: you could add a gfroce480GTX with win 7 64bit mOm miner at ~88Mhashes/sec
2594 2010-12-15 15:03:32 <RichardG> saved on my todo
2595 2010-12-15 15:03:47 <RichardG> thanks
2596 2010-12-15 15:07:00 <lfm> need any more advice? just ask, we are here to serve
2597 2010-12-15 15:08:48 Granttt has joined
2598 2010-12-15 15:10:47 <kiba> download my art!!!!1111
2599 2010-12-15 15:10:53 <kiba> seriously, where is genjix
2600 2010-12-15 15:11:14 <kiba> he have several problems big and small with his download service
2601 2010-12-15 15:12:10 Amiga4000 is now known as amiga4000
2602 2010-12-15 15:13:07 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2603 2010-12-15 15:13:26 <EvanR-work> kiba: what download service?
2604 2010-12-15 15:14:16 <lfm> EvanR-work: kiba sell his art for bitcoins
2605 2010-12-15 15:14:56 <EvanR-work> ok, download service?
2606 2010-12-15 15:15:09 <EvanR-work> link?
2607 2010-12-15 15:15:22 <kiba> http://pastecoin.com/download.php?file=89
2608 2010-12-15 15:15:36 * kiba only work on his art project for one hour a day
2609 2010-12-15 15:15:47 <EvanR-work> so you charge per download
2610 2010-12-15 15:15:49 <MT`AwAy> kiba: he has obligation to help you, he's getting a free vps for pastecoin :d
2611 2010-12-15 15:15:51 <MT`AwAy> :D
2612 2010-12-15 15:17:56 <EvanR-work> lfm: about this... what are the legal ramifications ;) what if i upload metalica mp3 ;)
2613 2010-12-15 15:18:11 <EvanR-work> or more realistically a book i didnt write that you cant normally find
2614 2010-12-15 15:18:31 <lfm> i am not a lawyer, i dunno
2615 2010-12-15 15:18:38 <EvanR-work> haha
2616 2010-12-15 15:18:45 <EvanR-work> unregulated markets ftw
2617 2010-12-15 15:19:04 <lfm> maybe depends what country you are in also
2618 2010-12-15 15:19:31 <kiba> who care about fucking copyright
2619 2010-12-15 15:19:42 <kiba> just don't upload stuff that get genjix's site down
2620 2010-12-15 15:23:22 Grantt has joined
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2629 2010-12-15 15:49:50 <UukGoblin> hrm, so how does this pool work when people would cheat?
2630 2010-12-15 15:51:48 <[Noodles]> how would people cheat?
2631 2010-12-15 15:51:50 <zygf> you can limit the influence of cheaters to an insignificant level
2632 2010-12-15 15:52:17 <UukGoblin> well I'm assuming only one of the people contributing to a pool generates a block
2633 2010-12-15 15:52:26 <[Noodles]> no, all of them do
2634 2010-12-15 15:52:35 <UukGoblin> how does that happen?
2635 2010-12-15 15:52:46 <[Noodles]> well, the server does, but all of them "generate coins"
2636 2010-12-15 15:52:53 <kisom_dev> how do I find out what labels are in my wallet?
2637 2010-12-15 15:53:29 <zygf> while they can misreport their hashrate, it's verified serverside at times unknown to the client, so it won't know when to prepare a valid "metahash" to fool the server
2638 2010-12-15 15:53:41 CyanDynamo has joined
2639 2010-12-15 15:53:48 <lfm> kisom_dev: remember them? the address book tab helps too
2640 2010-12-15 15:53:56 <kisom_dev> I'm using the CLI
2641 2010-12-15 15:53:58 <kisom_dev> bitcoind
2642 2010-12-15 15:54:33 <gavinandresen> kisom_dev: listreceivedbyaccount, until I finish the listaccounts command.
2643 2010-12-15 15:54:38 <UukGoblin> right, so they basically don't know the extraNonce stuff... fair enough
2644 2010-12-15 15:54:39 <kisom_dev> gavinandresen: thanks
2645 2010-12-15 15:54:40 <lfm> kisom_dev: well if you cant run the gui its harder
2646 2010-12-15 15:54:59 <UukGoblin> they could at least sabotage the operation by not reporting the winning hashes...
2647 2010-12-15 15:55:10 <kisom_dev> lfm: I run bitcoin on a VPS
2648 2010-12-15 15:55:24 <lfm> kisom_dev: try listreceivedbyaccount
2649 2010-12-15 15:55:55 <[Noodles]> and waht's the point in not reporting winning hashes, besides not getting the block solved
2650 2010-12-15 15:57:54 <[Noodles]> they can't use winning hashes on their own clients, makes no sense to keep them
2651 2010-12-15 15:58:54 <UukGoblin> [Noodles], yeah, I see how now
2652 2010-12-15 15:59:05 <UukGoblin> they don't know the server's extraNonce, effectively
2653 2010-12-15 15:59:26 <lfm> nor the txn keys
2654 2010-12-15 16:00:03 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
2655 2010-12-15 16:00:04 jgarzik has joined
2656 2010-12-15 16:01:05 <xelister> [Noodles]: but the pool central server can cheat them right?
2657 2010-12-15 16:01:58 <[Noodles]> the one who might cheat is the server-admin, others just might try to hop to another server they think might find the next block faster
2658 2010-12-15 16:03:05 <[Noodles]> yeah, the server-admin is always able to cheat, but as long as transactions are public, we cann all double-check if he's "paying" correct
2659 2010-12-15 16:12:21 cdecker has joined
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2661 2010-12-15 16:25:58 Grantt is now known as Granttt
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2667 2010-12-15 16:38:40 omglolbbq is now known as KwukDuck
2668 2010-12-15 16:43:25 <lfm> [Noodles]: hopping to another server sounds like a gambler's falacy
2669 2010-12-15 16:45:30 foobar has joined
2670 2010-12-15 16:47:58 PP22 has joined
2671 2010-12-15 16:49:41 <[Noodles]> it is, would actually just makes sense (if any) for 'contributed' servers and GPU-clients anyway
2672 2010-12-15 16:51:31 PP22 has quit (Client Quit)
2673 2010-12-15 16:53:43 m0mchil has left ()
2674 2010-12-15 16:53:51 <lfm> [Noodles]: about as much sense as any of the pools make I spoze
2675 2010-12-15 16:54:15 <[Noodles]> hehe, that's a different story ^.^
2676 2010-12-15 16:57:18 * kiba hopes genjix respond to pastecoin inquiry
2677 2010-12-15 17:04:07 <kiba> genjix disappeared :(
2678 2010-12-15 17:11:40 acous has joined
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2680 2010-12-15 17:11:40 acous has joined
2681 2010-12-15 17:12:16 foobar has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2684 2010-12-15 17:58:28 <EvanR-work> bit coins in circulation are currently increasing
2685 2010-12-15 17:58:44 <EvanR-work> but also coins are lost
2686 2010-12-15 17:58:46 <EvanR-work> right?
2687 2010-12-15 17:59:10 <EvanR-work> once they stop increasing, wont they start decreasing?
2688 2010-12-15 17:59:19 <EvanR-work> until they are all gone? ;)
2689 2010-12-15 18:01:39 <zygf> how are they supposed to get lost?
2690 2010-12-15 18:01:52 <EvanR-work> hard drive crash
2691 2010-12-15 18:02:02 <nirgle> fed crushes them
2692 2010-12-15 18:03:47 <EvanR-work> alternatively people could send coins to a blackhole client
2693 2010-12-15 18:05:16 <EvanR-work> equivalent to burning banknotes
2694 2010-12-15 18:05:35 <cdecker> Correct
2695 2010-12-15 18:05:42 <cdecker> They will start decreasing
2696 2010-12-15 18:05:47 <cdecker> Hopefully slowly
2697 2010-12-15 18:05:48 <zygf> I guess people in 200 years might have to worry about it :P
2698 2010-12-15 18:05:50 <Granttt> they wont start decreasing
2699 2010-12-15 18:06:04 <Granttt> but ppl may throw money away
2700 2010-12-15 18:06:14 <cdecker> But the beauty is the disibility of Bitcoins
2701 2010-12-15 18:06:15 <Granttt> which is a very good thing for those who hold btc
2702 2010-12-15 18:06:32 <jb55> so If I have 1 million BTC in my wallet and I delete the wallet.dat file those are gone forever?
2703 2010-12-15 18:06:42 <tcatm> yep
2704 2010-12-15 18:06:53 <cdecker> As fewer bitcoins are in circulation value will increase and so 0.0001 bitcoin might buy you bread :D
2705 2010-12-15 18:07:27 <EvanR-work> at some point you might get into the problem of too few 0.00000001 left
2706 2010-12-15 18:07:37 <EvanR-work> then they will be so valuable!
2707 2010-12-15 18:07:43 grondilu has joined
2708 2010-12-15 18:07:48 ByteCoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2709 2010-12-15 18:07:58 <EvanR-work> better hold on to your free 0.05! ;)
2710 2010-12-15 18:08:09 ByteCoin has joined
2711 2010-12-15 18:08:13 <cdecker> Hehe it was 5 BTC only a few months ago
2712 2010-12-15 18:08:25 <EvanR-work> i feel cheated
2713 2010-12-15 18:08:28 grondilu has quit (Client Quit)
2714 2010-12-15 18:08:33 <EvanR-work> why did you reduce it by a factor of 100
2715 2010-12-15 18:08:36 <EvanR-work> er he
2716 2010-12-15 18:08:37 <cdecker> But the faucet had to reduce due to price increase and availabilty of free bitcoins
2717 2010-12-15 18:08:54 <[Noodles]> and greedy people
2718 2010-12-15 18:09:02 <cdecker> Giving everyon 5 Bitcoins was not really sustainable
2719 2010-12-15 18:09:13 <Granttt> giving anyone anything isnt sustainable
2720 2010-12-15 18:09:21 grondilu has joined
2721 2010-12-15 18:09:26 <cdecker> Yes it is
2722 2010-12-15 18:09:33 <cdecker> Teaching is a way of giving
2723 2010-12-15 18:09:33 <MT`AwAy> and even at 0.05 the faucet is getting empty faster than before
2724 2010-12-15 18:09:52 <Granttt> when you teach to dont upload the only copy of your brain, you clone it :)
2725 2010-12-15 18:09:53 <jb55> scary thought: a virus which targets and deletes wallet.dat files.
2726 2010-12-15 18:09:54 <EvanR-work> you cant give away knowledge
2727 2010-12-15 18:09:56 <jb55> time for a backup plan
2728 2010-12-15 18:10:09 <EvanR-work> unless its a full body transplant
2729 2010-12-15 18:10:21 <cdecker> A lot of people use dropbox to backup a copy of their wallet
2730 2010-12-15 18:10:26 <MT`AwAy> jb55: if I was to make a virus, it would take the private keys and generate transactiosn to me first :D
2731 2010-12-15 18:10:35 <jb55> haha that too
2732 2010-12-15 18:10:42 <MT`AwAy> it's pretty easy to do
2733 2010-12-15 18:10:45 <nanotube> jb55: backup plan: a virus that makes offsite backups of wallet.dat :)
2734 2010-12-15 18:11:07 <EvanR-work> ill have to look into drop box
2735 2010-12-15 18:11:13 <MT`AwAy> (that's why my bitcoin client will have the ability to encrypt the private keys part of the wallet)
2736 2010-12-15 18:11:22 ByteCoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2737 2010-12-15 18:11:30 <MT`AwAy> (and will allow automatic wallet backups for a few btc/month)
2738 2010-12-15 18:12:04 <MT`AwAy> (and people willing to offer wallet backups will be able to provide their own service too btw)
2739 2010-12-15 18:12:28 grondilu has quit (Client Quit)
2740 2010-12-15 18:13:39 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2741 2010-12-15 18:16:55 genjix has joined
2742 2010-12-15 18:17:37 <EvanR-work> you should charge for advice on how to earn bitcoins
2743 2010-12-15 18:17:49 <EvanR-work> damn i should have charged for that
2744 2010-12-15 18:18:39 <altamic> EvanR: consulting rates upfront. Always
2745 2010-12-15 18:19:18 <EvanR-work> fifty cents for a yes no question, seventy five for a simple sentence answer
2746 2010-12-15 18:19:31 <EvanR-work> four coins for numeric answer
2747 2010-12-15 18:20:17 <nanotube> EvanR-work: double-your-money-back if your answers turn out to be wrong? :)
2748 2010-12-15 18:20:22 * cdecker is charging by the character :D
2749 2010-12-15 18:21:20 <EvanR-work> nanotube: proportional to the degree of wrongness
2750 2010-12-15 18:21:27 <EvanR-work> yes no 100% refund
2751 2010-12-15 18:21:31 <EvanR-work> lol
2752 2010-12-15 18:22:16 <nanotube> well, it has to be >100% refund. otherwise you have nothing to lose by just spouting bs... if the worst case is that you make 0.
2753 2010-12-15 18:22:59 <EvanR-work> good point
2754 2010-12-15 18:23:01 <EvanR-work> risky
2755 2010-12-15 18:23:09 <nanotube> tanstaafl amigo :)
2756 2010-12-15 18:24:08 * EvanR-work wonders about how to earn money
2757 2010-12-15 18:24:13 * EvanR-work then realizes hes at work
2758 2010-12-15 18:24:23 <EvanR-work> :(
2759 2010-12-15 18:25:02 <Granttt> isnt work == earn money ?
2760 2010-12-15 18:25:02 <cdecker> How do you know Bitcoin had a major breakthrough? When McKinsey starts consulting users, giving the same advice we did, but charging the hell out of their clients...
2761 2010-12-15 18:25:12 <EvanR-work> Granttt: not enough
2762 2010-12-15 18:25:54 <Granttt> then quit your job, and make something you can sell
2763 2010-12-15 18:26:15 <EvanR-work> in that order?
2764 2010-12-15 18:26:19 <Granttt> yes
2765 2010-12-15 18:26:24 <EvanR-work> @_@
2766 2010-12-15 18:26:30 <Granttt> its the only way, otherwise your job will distract your focus
2767 2010-12-15 18:26:37 <Granttt> but its risky, i did that a few years ago
2768 2010-12-15 18:26:47 <EvanR-work> i have a total of 50USD
2769 2010-12-15 18:26:54 <EvanR-work> until my next paycheck
2770 2010-12-15 18:28:08 <EvanR-work> i should sell code for open source projects im working on
2771 2010-12-15 18:28:14 <EvanR-work> once its done
2772 2010-12-15 18:28:16 <altamic> http://btco.in/5e
2773 2010-12-15 18:28:20 devon_hillard_ has joined
2774 2010-12-15 18:28:38 <altamic> "Itâs easy to start something. Following through is the tough part"
2775 2010-12-15 18:28:53 cdecker has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2776 2010-12-15 18:29:38 <MT`AwAy> haha
2777 2010-12-15 18:30:00 <Granttt> well it requires often 20hours/day work incl sunday (to quit a job and do something of your own)
2778 2010-12-15 18:30:38 <EvanR-work> oh, i could sell patches to open source software ;)
2779 2010-12-15 18:30:38 <MT`AwAy> Granttt: I did that: one year ago I quit my job and created my company in Japan
2780 2010-12-15 18:31:01 <MT`AwAy> and I'M STILL ALIVE AND HAVEN'T GIVEN UP YET! (yes, I'm screaming because that was fucking hard)
2781 2010-12-15 18:31:05 <EvanR-work> would be expensive patches...
2782 2010-12-15 18:31:20 <Granttt> congrats, stay strong :)
2783 2010-12-15 18:31:32 <altamic> MT == MagicalTux ?
2784 2010-12-15 18:31:34 <EvanR-work> MT`AwAy: what company?
2785 2010-12-15 18:31:54 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: it's called "Tibanne Co. Ltd." we do various things, including kalyhost.com
2786 2010-12-15 18:31:55 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2787 2010-12-15 18:31:59 <MT`AwAy> altamic: yes
2788 2010-12-15 18:32:04 <altamic> oh nice
2789 2010-12-15 18:32:05 <genjix> kalyhost.com is the best host imo
2790 2010-12-15 18:32:12 <altamic> I've sent a couple of sms
2791 2010-12-15 18:32:14 fabianhjr has joined
2792 2010-12-15 18:32:18 <genjix> i'd use you for our project if it wasnt illegal in france
2793 2010-12-15 18:32:18 <altamic> from your service
2794 2010-12-15 18:32:34 <EvanR-work> MT`AwAy: im looking for vps hosting actually
2795 2010-12-15 18:32:35 * fabianhjr is reading logs
2796 2010-12-15 18:32:36 <MT`AwAy> altamic: I got someone from here to work on a better design for smsz.net (paid in bitcoins)
2797 2010-12-15 18:32:50 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: I do VPS hosting, however the VPS are located in Europe
2798 2010-12-15 18:32:55 <EvanR-work> is that a problem?
2799 2010-12-15 18:33:02 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: you tell me
2800 2010-12-15 18:33:06 <EvanR-work> why would it be?
2801 2010-12-15 18:33:18 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: if you're in US, for example, you might not like having 80~120ms ping to your VPS
2802 2010-12-15 18:33:32 <genjix> EvanR-work: im involved with gambling and its illegal in france, hence can't use kalyhost
2803 2010-12-15 18:33:42 <EvanR-work> oh
2804 2010-12-15 18:33:44 <MT`AwAy> genjix: illegal also in Japan and most european countries
2805 2010-12-15 18:33:51 <MT`AwAy> btw the VPS I sell are in Germany
2806 2010-12-15 18:33:55 <EvanR-work> doing things illegal in france is illegal on kalyhost?
2807 2010-12-15 18:34:00 <MT`AwAy> genjix's vps is a bit special and is in France
2808 2010-12-15 18:34:12 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: doing something illegal in Germany is illegal if I host you in Germany
2809 2010-12-15 18:34:17 <genjix> ok
2810 2010-12-15 18:34:18 <EvanR-work> crap
2811 2010-12-15 18:34:28 <EvanR-work> guess i need to check the laws of both countries
2812 2010-12-15 18:34:29 <genjix> EvanR-work: germany AND your own country
2813 2010-12-15 18:34:30 <Granttt> damn, doing something illegal is now illegal ??? ;)
2814 2010-12-15 18:34:34 <EvanR-work> why my own?
2815 2010-12-15 18:34:35 <altamic> MT: why Japan?
2816 2010-12-15 18:34:51 <genjix> if something's illegal then it's illegal
2817 2010-12-15 18:34:53 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: your own country can easily get you, and Germany can easily get your VPS
2818 2010-12-15 18:35:05 <EvanR-work> if its only illegal in USA, im good right
2819 2010-12-15 18:35:06 <MT`AwAy> altamic: because I like Japan :D
2820 2010-12-15 18:35:15 <altamic> hehe, me too :)
2821 2010-12-15 18:35:45 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: in fact I personally don't really care if it's illegal or not, I'm just saying that for you (waking up and seeing vps not pinging is usually not giving a nice day)
2822 2010-12-15 18:35:53 <genjix> smsz looks cool. hope it works cos all the online sms i tried never worked.
2823 2010-12-15 18:36:07 <MT`AwAy> genjix: I use high quality SMS delivery gateways
2824 2010-12-15 18:36:12 <EvanR-work> MT`AwAy: right. well things having to do with money are often randomly illegal in various countries
2825 2010-12-15 18:36:31 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,calc 325000
2826 2010-12-15 18:36:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 325000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 day, 20 hours, 58 minutes, and 34 seconds
2827 2010-12-15 18:36:32 <genjix> dumb laws
2828 2010-12-15 18:36:43 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: except if those country are not recognizing bitcoins as money, for example
2829 2010-12-15 18:36:52 <MT`AwAy> in Japan it is not illegal to gamble non-money
2830 2010-12-15 18:36:56 <genjix> gambling hurts no-one, it's not even like smoking where i breathe your 2nd-hand smoke
2831 2010-12-15 18:37:18 TD is now known as TD[away]
2832 2010-12-15 18:37:19 <MT`AwAy> genjix: countries want to establish taxes on gambling because it's a potential great source of income :D
2833 2010-12-15 18:37:31 <MT`AwAy> in fact in France, online gambling is now legal, you need to get a specific license
2834 2010-12-15 18:37:43 <Granttt> gambling laws arent about ethics, its all about greed. The people who supported the UIGEA happen to be... the largest casinos
2835 2010-12-15 18:37:45 <genjix> and you can only other french players at pokerstars.fr
2836 2010-12-15 18:37:49 <genjix> which is shit.
2837 2010-12-15 18:37:55 <genjix> and the rake is super high
2838 2010-12-15 18:37:58 <fabianhjr> genjix: it doesn't hurt directly. For one part the casino is always winning.(Unless they don't catch cheaters)
2839 2010-12-15 18:38:20 <genjix> fabianhjr: it does hurt online poker because people win less and there isn't as big a player pool
2840 2010-12-15 18:38:21 <EvanR-work> speaking of which
2841 2010-12-15 18:38:23 <genjix> it destroys the games
2842 2010-12-15 18:38:41 <EvanR-work> who runs a bit coin casino? do you cut people off for 'cheating' ?
2843 2010-12-15 18:39:01 <fabianhjr> genjix: yeah, that's the other part. Tough, computerization of gambling games had caused casinos to start cheating.
2844 2010-12-15 18:39:44 <kiba> open the source code to inspection?
2845 2010-12-15 18:39:44 * MT`AwAy see genjix's subscription on smsz
2846 2010-12-15 18:39:45 <MT`AwAy> :D
2847 2010-12-15 18:39:55 <fabianhjr> EvanR-work: http://www.bitcoin.org/trade there are several. Some are MMOs.
2848 2010-12-15 18:40:01 <Granttt> fabianhjr: it isnt computerization of gaming that enable them to cheat. it is lack of competition. proof: gaming in secondlife (most of them are honest to protect reputation, hence increase business)
2849 2010-12-15 18:40:42 <fabianhjr> Granttt: true. Tough, they are all factors. Social money could be cool. 0_o
2850 2010-12-15 18:41:09 * fabianhjr has a bad cold. -_-
2851 2010-12-15 18:41:18 <Granttt> im a freemarket believer, i dont believe there any regulation that is better than competition
2852 2010-12-15 18:41:35 <Granttt> so i may be a bit biased :P
2853 2010-12-15 18:41:44 <genjix> MT`AwAy: yeah but i dont have a telephone :p
2854 2010-12-15 18:41:46 <fabianhjr> Granttt: we miss people like you in Mexico. We now got 2 reeally bad monopolies.
2855 2010-12-15 18:41:46 <genjix> oops
2856 2010-12-15 18:42:00 <MT`AwAy> genjix: you can still send messages to friends who do
2857 2010-12-15 18:42:01 <MT`AwAy> :p
2858 2010-12-15 18:42:23 <fabianhjr> Granttt: Telecoms: Telmex; Air Transportations: Aeromexico.
2859 2010-12-15 18:42:50 <Granttt> fabianhjr: i guess also banking
2860 2010-12-15 18:42:52 <fabianhjr> Granttt: air tickets had 200-300% cost nowadays.
2861 2010-12-15 18:43:27 <fabianhjr> Granttt: here banking has no monopoly. We got Banamex, Ixe, HSBC, and others. It is very healthy.
2862 2010-12-15 18:44:01 <fabianhjr> Tough, there is not many competition over the market and Banamex has the bigger chunk.
2863 2010-12-15 18:44:22 <fabianhjr> Granttt: what about you?
2864 2010-12-15 18:44:40 <Granttt> I'm in poland atm, while there's TONS of international banks here, the fees only tell me there isnt any serious competition
2865 2010-12-15 18:45:16 <Granttt> and of course telecom is a problem here also as in any other country
2866 2010-12-15 18:45:51 <Granttt> aerospace, is excused, they were imposed tons of overregulations after 911
2867 2010-12-15 18:47:38 <MT`AwAy> here in Japan, there is no fee to create a bank account, and you cannot go below zero (so no fees there either), using ATMs is free (except if you go to another bank) and most of the banking-related stuff is free
2868 2010-12-15 18:48:07 <genjix> sensible
2869 2010-12-15 18:48:14 <MT`AwAy> I pay 500Â¥/month to have a RSA "one time password" device on my keychain
2870 2010-12-15 18:48:21 <genjix> we live in a computer age. no need why sending money should cost
2871 2010-12-15 18:48:25 <MT`AwAy> ah no
2872 2010-12-15 18:48:27 <MT`AwAy> 105Â¥/month sorry
2873 2010-12-15 18:48:35 <kiba> sound cheap
2874 2010-12-15 18:48:53 <genjix> thats about $1
2875 2010-12-15 18:48:58 <kiba> wee!
2876 2010-12-15 18:49:10 <fabianhjr> Really good deal. :D
2877 2010-12-15 18:49:32 <fabianhjr> I still can't open a bank account here in Mexico for being underage. :/
2878 2010-12-15 18:49:38 <MT`AwAy> however, bank transfers are not free (and depending on the amount and where the transfer is directed, it's more or less expensive)
2879 2010-12-15 18:49:55 <MT`AwAy> still, I can use the ATM, withdraw money and give it to someone else for free, cash is the way to go
2880 2010-12-15 18:50:18 <MT`AwAy> (but I like japanese bank transfer, input the receipient bank account number, see his name, confirm and the money is instantly there)
2881 2010-12-15 18:50:55 <jcw9> Is it safe to give someone your japanese bank account number? (Can they withdraw?)
2882 2010-12-15 18:51:02 <xelister> fabianhjr: hahaa
2883 2010-12-15 18:51:05 <xelister> fabianhjr: mexico sucks
2884 2010-12-15 18:51:05 <MT`AwAy> jcw9: no, they can't
2885 2010-12-15 18:51:18 <jcw9> nice, that's really cool
2886 2010-12-15 18:51:21 <MT`AwAy> you can safely give your bank account number, they can't use it
2887 2010-12-15 18:51:39 <kiba> fuck
2888 2010-12-15 18:51:40 <MT`AwAy> to register to things like mobile phone and pay by bank account, you need your personal stamp (and it's checked to see if it matches)
2889 2010-12-15 18:51:45 <jcw9> has that stopped Paypal, etc from making inroads in japan?
2890 2010-12-15 18:51:45 <kiba> this is how banking should be
2891 2010-12-15 18:51:55 <Granttt> MT: japanese banking sounds similar to norwegian. on my NOK account i can transfer for free online, and see recp. name before sending. Annual fees are minimal.
2892 2010-12-15 18:52:00 <MT`AwAy> jcw9: paypal works in Japan, they only take credit cards
2893 2010-12-15 18:52:53 <jcw9> http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/news08.html
2894 2010-12-15 18:53:46 <kiba> banks don't take security seriously anyway
2895 2010-12-15 18:54:11 <kiba> I think in some way, github hosting is more secure than my bank
2896 2010-12-15 18:54:35 <Granttt> kiba: why should they, government takes care of security for them
2897 2010-12-15 18:55:03 <Granttt> its the only biz sector where its considered 100% ok to have an unviable business (so long as you're too big to fail)
2898 2010-12-15 18:55:09 <jcw9> I'm amazed that ATM cards in america aren't smartcards yet
2899 2010-12-15 18:55:51 <jcw9> the number of people I know who have their cards skimmed is pretty significant
2900 2010-12-15 18:57:40 devon_hillard_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2901 2010-12-15 18:58:28 <EvanR> what about the possibility of bitcoin card services?
2902 2010-12-15 18:59:04 <jcw9> I was thinking it would be pretty easy to make a machine that dispensed quarters / dollar coins for bitcoins
2903 2010-12-15 18:59:18 <jcw9> put a drainpipe out my window ^_^
2904 2010-12-15 19:00:02 <EvanR> then you could sell bitcoins at walmart and such, they typically have walls of cards for sale
2905 2010-12-15 19:00:26 <EvanR> and young kids love this stuff
2906 2010-12-15 19:00:35 <fabianhjr> EvanR why don't you sell them? I am going to start selling after I get my first mine.
2907 2010-12-15 19:00:50 <EvanR> mine? lol
2908 2010-12-15 19:01:23 <fabianhjr> Anyone a BSD|Caprica fan?
2909 2010-12-15 19:01:56 <fabianhjr> EvanRI am mining with an i7 930 @ 3.5 GHz and an ATI 5870 @ 900/900
2910 2010-12-15 19:02:26 <fabianhjr> Getting a steady 325 MHashes/sec
2911 2010-12-15 19:02:33 <genjix> fabianhjr: weird, i had bank at age 8 in the uk
2912 2010-12-15 19:03:02 <fabianhjr> genjix: I can't even open a PayPal without being over 18. >_>
2913 2010-12-15 19:03:14 <genjix> you're 16?
2914 2010-12-15 19:03:22 <fabianhjr> We got a very limited "kids card" which cannot be used to pay online.
2915 2010-12-15 19:03:25 <fabianhjr> I am 15
2916 2010-12-15 19:03:36 <genjix> kind of silly
2917 2010-12-15 19:04:02 <genjix> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAnnette_Obrestad&rct=j&q=annette_15&ei=wBAJTZjODYWFhQffyYioDw&usg=AFQjCNGbowsgN8S6_3dKQ_iAkeObeijM9Q&sig2=vkselA8syKGBHTcm_xRZDQ&cad=rja
2918 2010-12-15 19:04:06 <genjix> oops
2919 2010-12-15 19:04:15 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annette_Obrestad
2920 2010-12-15 19:04:24 <genjix> she was professional player with 1000's at 15
2921 2010-12-15 19:04:44 <genjix> but stupid law stops her withdrawing until 18 :p
2922 2010-12-15 19:05:40 judge_mental has joined
2923 2010-12-15 19:06:18 <fabianhjr> :P See! It is dumb! That's why I joined Bitcoin
2924 2010-12-15 19:06:31 <EvanR> hope no one tells the mexican government!
2925 2010-12-15 19:06:35 <EvanR> or theyll take your bitcoins
2926 2010-12-15 19:07:01 <genjix> ;;bc,help
2927 2010-12-15 19:07:01 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
2928 2010-12-15 19:07:18 <genjix> ;;bc,estimate
2929 2010-12-15 19:07:18 <gribble> 13992.50597016
2930 2010-12-15 19:07:19 <fabianhjr> 0_o they would not. TrueCrypt hidden partittion + dummy.
2931 2010-12-15 19:07:35 <EvanR> i.e. 'in my matress' lol
2932 2010-12-15 19:08:15 <fabianhjr> EvanR also, if they do it means people adopted Bitcoins as a real currency and companies would start offering them as payments.
2933 2010-12-15 19:08:46 <fabianhjr> Nowadays we got a "cyber police" in mexico. Tough, the only thing they do is try to catch child pornography.
2934 2010-12-15 19:09:17 <nanotube> fabianhjr: so as long as you don't post pictures of yourself, you should be fine, eh? :)
2935 2010-12-15 19:09:23 <EvanR> lol
2936 2010-12-15 19:09:35 <EvanR> fabianhjr: do you intend to exchange for USD? or mexican money?
2937 2010-12-15 19:09:41 <EvanR> eventually
2938 2010-12-15 19:10:04 <fabianhjr> Starting small, just MXN for now.
2939 2010-12-15 19:11:14 <fabianhjr> I am sure I will someday also exchange with international currencies.
2940 2010-12-15 19:11:54 <EvanR> how did you manage to get coins without being able to legally use money on the internet
2941 2010-12-15 19:12:26 <genjix> EvanR: i have 200 and i've never changed money
2942 2010-12-15 19:12:42 <EvanR> from where?
2943 2010-12-15 19:12:46 <fabianhjr> Evan I am mining them. -_-
2944 2010-12-15 19:12:58 <EvanR> hows that going so far
2945 2010-12-15 19:13:05 <fabianhjr> Just join a pool or download a miner.
2946 2010-12-15 19:13:16 <fabianhjr> I am soon going to get 50 BTC. I am sure.
2947 2010-12-15 19:13:22 <genjix> 2 btc donation -> play poker 120 btc -> donation for improving bitcoin wikipedia article 200 btc
2948 2010-12-15 19:13:36 <fabianhjr> I would lol if someone here in Mexico offers me more than 0.5 USD per BTC.
2949 2010-12-15 19:14:11 <fabianhjr> I found another ~2 mexicans in the forums.
2950 2010-12-15 19:14:16 <Keefe> when did you first learn about bitcoin?
2951 2010-12-15 19:14:30 <Keefe> oops, wrong chan, sorry
2952 2010-12-15 19:14:39 <fabianhjr> xD
2953 2010-12-15 19:14:56 <genjix> good to see you spreading our propaganda, comrade Keefe
2954 2010-12-15 19:15:28 <EvanR> i heard people talking about it in #haskell-blah
2955 2010-12-15 19:16:00 <genjix> fabianhjr: you know commandante marcos?
2956 2010-12-15 19:16:06 <EvanR> all i saw was 'bitcoin' and a lot of gibberish, i immediately had to check it out ;)
2957 2010-12-15 19:16:13 <Keefe> is referring to someone as comrade suggesting they have a socialist/communist political view?
2958 2010-12-15 19:16:37 <genjix> Keefe: or anarchist. it's a joke.
2959 2010-12-15 19:17:17 <fabianhjr> genjix: sorry, are you talking about the forums users or about a General of the Mexican army named Marcos?
2960 2010-12-15 19:17:26 <genjix> general
2961 2010-12-15 19:17:30 <genjix> subcommandante marcos
2962 2010-12-15 19:17:45 <fabianhjr> 0_o maybe. I am not familiar with the Mexican army.
2963 2010-12-15 19:17:51 <kiba> genjix: it's real
2964 2010-12-15 19:17:56 <kiba> bober182
2965 2010-12-15 19:18:00 <kiba> he's a commie
2966 2010-12-15 19:18:23 <fabianhjr> kiba: maybe I had heard of him.
2967 2010-12-15 19:18:28 <genjix> fabianhjr: the zapatista for chiapas. he's cool.
2968 2010-12-15 19:18:55 <fabianhjr> xD ok. Then no. I am only familiar with historic figures and some Mexico City ones.
2969 2010-12-15 19:19:12 <genjix> chiapas is outside mexican government control. They just don't co-operate with central government
2970 2010-12-15 19:19:23 <genjix> it's worlds first anarchist place.
2971 2010-12-15 19:19:36 <EvanR> what are good guidelines for selling a contract to write code for something
2972 2010-12-15 19:19:53 <fabianhjr> Not yet. It is just to one point. Right now there is a little bit of chaos.
2973 2010-12-15 19:20:02 <fabianhjr> s/point/degree/
2974 2010-12-15 19:20:17 <kiba> 1) Don't sue.
2975 2010-12-15 19:20:31 <kiba> 2) Walk away if they are scamming you.
2976 2010-12-15 19:20:39 <kiba> 3) Clear communication.
2977 2010-12-15 19:21:43 <fabianhjr> kiba: it is still not anarchisst enough to be called the first anarchist place. We need to wait a bit and see what happens.
2978 2010-12-15 19:21:58 <genjix> u mean genjix?
2979 2010-12-15 19:22:00 <kiba> what kind of anarchy did they establish?
2980 2010-12-15 19:22:03 <kiba> market?
2981 2010-12-15 19:22:07 <kiba> tree-hugging communes?
2982 2010-12-15 19:22:22 <kiba> what are the laws there?
2983 2010-12-15 19:22:44 <fabianhjr> market to a degree. There is also a problem with violence and organized crime that should be dealt with as soon as possible.
2984 2010-12-15 19:23:16 <kiba> what are its law enforcement mechanism?
2985 2010-12-15 19:23:21 <kiba> volunteer milita?
2986 2010-12-15 19:23:22 <fabianhjr> You can search for the Constitucion de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos.(USA is not the only US of A) :p
2987 2010-12-15 19:23:29 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SubMarcosHorse.jpg
2988 2010-12-15 19:23:30 <genjix> :)
2989 2010-12-15 19:23:39 <EvanR> fabianhjr: lies!
2990 2010-12-15 19:23:40 <kiba> how is the rule of law established?
2991 2010-12-15 19:23:45 <EvanR> this is america
2992 2010-12-15 19:23:47 <fabianhjr> kiba there is a mandatory 3 year service for any male that reaches 17 years of age.
2993 2010-12-15 19:23:54 <genjix> fabianhjr: you say crime but it's travel guides say it's safe there.
2994 2010-12-15 19:23:58 <kiba> sound like corecison, fabianhjr
2995 2010-12-15 19:24:26 <fabianhjr> please define core-cision. 0_o
2996 2010-12-15 19:24:40 <kiba> WE shoot your place up if you don't do x
2997 2010-12-15 19:24:49 <fabianhjr> genjix: there is a "war on narco"
2998 2010-12-15 19:25:04 <fabianhjr> kiba: lol
2999 2010-12-15 19:25:35 <EvanR> coercion
3000 2010-12-15 19:25:37 <EvanR> grr
3001 2010-12-15 19:25:45 <fabianhjr> Sorry, I am lagging a bit since I am using the OpenCL client on my only GFXC.
3002 2010-12-15 19:26:13 <genjix> maybe if the government didn't try to constantly crush/attack them
3003 2010-12-15 19:26:24 <kiba> silver or lead!
3004 2010-12-15 19:26:28 <genjix> then they could organise and fix their social problems
3005 2010-12-15 19:26:37 <kiba> genjix: the problem lie with the US making drugs illegal
3006 2010-12-15 19:27:22 <fabianhjr> kiba: in Mexico we legalize the possesion only of drugs like coke to a certain ammount. No more than 1 KG for personal use I think. 0_o
3007 2010-12-15 19:27:51 <genjix> in uk some drugs are allowed too
3008 2010-12-15 19:27:53 <fabianhjr> kiba: that allowed us to treat people like pacients and not like criminals.
3009 2010-12-15 19:28:22 <genjix> the shops used to sell magic mushrooms and we would buy them as kids
3010 2010-12-15 19:29:55 fabianhjr_ has joined
3011 2010-12-15 19:32:01 <kiba> blur
3012 2010-12-15 19:32:03 <kiba> I am cold
3013 2010-12-15 19:32:22 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3014 2010-12-15 19:32:37 fabianhjr_ is now known as fabianhjr
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3019 2010-12-15 19:36:31 <fabianhjr> <fabianhjr> kiba: that allowed us to treat people like pacients and not like criminals.
3020 2010-12-15 19:36:33 <fabianhjr> <fabianhjr> genjix: their possesion has been legalized. The production/trading is not.
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3030 2010-12-15 19:50:49 <xelister> bitcoin addreess changes on every restart?
3031 2010-12-15 19:51:00 <xelister> of course the money still arrives if sent to the "old" address?
3032 2010-12-15 19:51:08 * xelister pings Granttt ^
3033 2010-12-15 19:51:14 sgornick has joined
3034 2010-12-15 19:52:13 <gavinandresen> xelister: bitcoin receiving address in the GUI changes every time it receives something.
3035 2010-12-15 19:52:23 <xelister> ah ok
3036 2010-12-15 19:52:31 <gavinandresen> xelister: and yes, all your addresses are safe in your wallet.
3037 2010-12-15 19:52:34 <wump> the money still arrives, your wallet keeps all old addresses
3038 2010-12-15 19:52:37 <wump> yeah exactly
3039 2010-12-15 19:52:52 <EvanR-work> it arrives even if you never open your wallet ;)
3040 2010-12-15 19:52:58 <EvanR-work> right?
3041 2010-12-15 19:53:23 <gavinandresen> "If a tree falls in your bitcoin wallet but you are not there to see it...."
3042 2010-12-15 19:53:26 <wump> that depends on what you call 'arrive'
3043 2010-12-15 19:53:34 <EvanR-work> haha
3044 2010-12-15 19:53:54 <judge_mental> i just downloaded bitcoin
3045 2010-12-15 19:54:03 <EvanR-work> will it be confirmed if you never open the wallet?
3046 2010-12-15 19:54:09 <wump> yes
3047 2010-12-15 19:54:10 <judge_mental> very interested in the premise.
3048 2010-12-15 19:54:29 <EvanR-work> judge_mental: cool!
3049 2010-12-15 19:54:34 <wump> confirmation means that the transaction is valid
3050 2010-12-15 19:54:47 <wump> welcome judge_mental
3051 2010-12-15 19:54:55 <fabianhjr> Good to know. I had been using Bitcoin for 3 days now. :D
3052 2010-12-15 19:55:07 <EvanR-work> welcome to the cult
3053 2010-12-15 19:55:13 <gavinandresen> Yes, unless you were insanely unlucky. There is a very small possibility that you sent the transaction to the network, but all the nodes you were connected to missed it (maybe they all chose that EXACT moment to disconnect).
3054 2010-12-15 19:55:15 <judge_mental> i'm doing research on a non-monetary economy for information.
3055 2010-12-15 19:56:18 <lfm> gavinandresen: do you think that has ever happened?
3056 2010-12-15 19:56:44 <gavinandresen> lfm: I doubt it. If it does, your bitcoin client will retransmit the transaction when it gets reconnected.
3057 2010-12-15 19:57:08 <wump> gavinandresen: but in that case, no coins are lost right?
3058 2010-12-15 19:57:17 <gavinandresen> wump: right.
3059 2010-12-15 19:57:22 <wump> good :)
3060 2010-12-15 19:57:40 nirgle has left ()
3061 2010-12-15 19:58:04 <EvanR-work> is there a blackhole address? ;)
3062 2010-12-15 19:58:27 <gavinandresen> Sure. There's a nice one that starts with a bunch of 1's
3063 2010-12-15 19:58:41 <gavinandresen> (it corresponds to the bitcoin address hash that is all zeros)
3064 2010-12-15 19:58:51 <EvanR-work> oh
3065 2010-12-15 19:58:55 <wump> you could easily make one too
3066 2010-12-15 19:59:01 <EvanR-work> you can send coins without a corresponding other side
3067 2010-12-15 19:59:28 <gavinandresen> EvanR-work: yes, you can. Why would you want to, though?
3068 2010-12-15 19:59:31 <wump> just send to a deleted wallet
3069 2010-12-15 19:59:52 <EvanR-work> gavinandresen: to collect all the coins and delete them!
3070 2010-12-15 20:00:03 <wump> you could start your own personal chain
3071 2010-12-15 20:00:14 <wump> and throw all the coins in the sea :P
3072 2010-12-15 20:00:22 <gavinandresen> I'd rather collect all the coins and keep them. I could print them out and roll around in them like Scrooge McDuck
3073 2010-12-15 20:00:31 <EvanR-work> hahahahaha
3074 2010-12-15 20:00:37 <wump> yes much better idea
3075 2010-12-15 20:01:03 <gavinandresen> Funny thing is, if you own all the coins then they're worthless!
3076 2010-12-15 20:01:07 <genjix> hey gavinandresen i tried you patch. everything seems to work good. anything i should testin particular?
3077 2010-12-15 20:01:18 <genjix> good work
3078 2010-12-15 20:01:32 <midnightmagic> Huh.. "Cost-Efficient SHA Hardware Accelerators"
3079 2010-12-15 20:01:38 <gavinandresen> genjix: thanks! I actually just sent Satoshi an improved version (optimized for large wallets with lots of accounts)
3080 2010-12-15 20:01:45 <wump> so the objective should be 'owning almost all coins'
3081 2010-12-15 20:01:55 <wump> the rest gets to keep 1BC
3082 2010-12-15 20:02:08 maximi89 has joined
3083 2010-12-15 20:02:14 <wump> which they can subdivide until 8 digits
3084 2010-12-15 20:02:14 <genjix> now bitcoind has listaccounts, my life is complete.
3085 2010-12-15 20:03:15 <lfm> wump: I would be happy if I could get 10,000 BTC every day AND SPEND them the same day. A pile of coins is a waste
3086 2010-12-15 20:04:42 <EvanR-work> lfm: you cant?
3087 2010-12-15 20:04:49 <wump> true, if you can't spend them on anything it makes no sense
3088 2010-12-15 20:05:06 MaTee_ has joined
3089 2010-12-15 20:05:21 <kiba> I have a website on which you spend some money on
3090 2010-12-15 20:05:25 <lfm> if you DONT spend them its pointless
3091 2010-12-15 20:05:43 <kiba> saving is just delay in spending
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3097 2010-12-15 20:06:32 <lfm> the point is also that accumulating btc is bad, circulating btc is good
3098 2010-12-15 20:06:45 <EvanR-work> invest
3099 2010-12-15 20:06:54 RichardG has joined
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3101 2010-12-15 20:06:54 RichardG has joined
3102 2010-12-15 20:08:00 <EvanR-work> sell sell sell
3103 2010-12-15 20:08:56 <kiba> lfm: accumlation of btc without intent to use it is bad
3104 2010-12-15 20:09:09 <kiba> accumlation of btc with intent to use it in some form or another is good
3105 2010-12-15 20:09:23 <kiba> and nobody save for the sake of saving
3106 2010-12-15 20:13:02 <midnightmagic> no coins in two days.. weird.
3107 2010-12-15 20:21:01 <kiba> midnightmagic: it's probablity, silly
3108 2010-12-15 20:28:18 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 734100
3109 2010-12-15 20:28:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 734100 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 19 hours, 54 minutes, and 42 seconds
3110 2010-12-15 20:28:28 <midnightmagic> ^^ that.
3111 2010-12-15 20:29:08 <midnightmagic> meh, I am patient, and this is wayy too much fun..
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3114 2010-12-15 20:31:35 lest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3115 2010-12-15 20:38:01 <EvanR-work> midnightmagic: what hardare
3116 2010-12-15 20:38:03 <EvanR-work> ware
3117 2010-12-15 20:39:17 <judge_mental> should my balance go up if i'm generating?
3118 2010-12-15 20:39:34 <EvanR-work> only if you complete a block
3119 2010-12-15 20:39:42 <EvanR-work> youll get 50 coins
3120 2010-12-15 20:40:01 <lfm> judge_mental: ya, if your lucky it will go up by 50.00 within the next 6 months or so
3121 2010-12-15 20:40:24 <judge_mental> and what is roughly the value of 50 coins?
3122 2010-12-15 20:40:26 <EvanR-work> from what i gather there are a lot of other people out there with way more computing power than you trying to do the same thing
3123 2010-12-15 20:40:43 <judge_mental> i'm just trying to understand it
3124 2010-12-15 20:41:00 <lfm> 50btc is about 10 dollars us
3125 2010-12-15 20:41:51 <kiba> that can change rapidly
3126 2010-12-15 20:42:03 <judge_mental> also... what types of computing tasks am i lending my processing power to?
3127 2010-12-15 20:42:07 <lfm> ya, its a market value thing
3128 2010-12-15 20:42:10 <kiba> transaction processing
3129 2010-12-15 20:42:22 <Granttt> gpu waterboarding ;)
3130 2010-12-15 20:42:29 <judge_mental> lol
3131 2010-12-15 20:42:35 <lfm> judge_mental: you are supporting the bitcoin network, thats all
3132 2010-12-15 20:42:45 <judge_mental> so it's self-sustaining
3133 2010-12-15 20:43:18 <lfm> no, it is sustained by the users
3134 2010-12-15 20:43:41 <judge_mental> ah, yes. that's a better way to put it.
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3136 2010-12-15 20:44:00 <kiba> we are strong when we have lot of people using it
3137 2010-12-15 20:44:07 <judge_mental> and the only other way to acquire bitcoins is by bartering?
3138 2010-12-15 20:44:18 <kiba> by exchanging goods and services
3139 2010-12-15 20:44:22 <lfm> judge_mental: you can buy bitcoins
3140 2010-12-15 20:44:36 * kiba makes his money from selling arts
3141 2010-12-15 20:44:50 <judge_mental> can i earn them for doing little bits of labour?
3142 2010-12-15 20:45:14 <kiba> if you can convince them to buy your labor
3143 2010-12-15 20:45:19 <judge_mental> for example like on amazon turk
3144 2010-12-15 20:45:25 <judge_mental> mechanical turk^
3145 2010-12-15 20:45:38 <EvanR-work> ill pay you 0.05 coins to help me on this project for the next several months
3146 2010-12-15 20:45:44 <lfm> dunno what is amazon turk
3147 2010-12-15 20:46:00 <lfm> EvanR-work: be serious
3148 2010-12-15 20:46:11 <EvanR-work> my offer stands
3149 2010-12-15 20:46:21 <judge_mental> it's like an online micropayment marketplace
3150 2010-12-15 20:46:26 <judge_mental> https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome
3151 2010-12-15 20:46:32 <judge_mental> for mundane human click-labour
3152 2010-12-15 20:46:44 <EvanR-work> ad networks
3153 2010-12-15 20:46:49 <judge_mental> but you can only earn amazon credits
3154 2010-12-15 20:46:54 <judge_mental> what's your project?
3155 2010-12-15 20:47:09 <EvanR-work> a php javascript monstrosity
3156 2010-12-15 20:47:12 <EvanR-work> you dont want to know
3157 2010-12-15 20:47:18 <judge_mental> lol
3158 2010-12-15 20:47:43 <judge_mental> yeah... you're probably right.
3159 2010-12-15 20:47:52 <kiba> yes
3160 2010-12-15 20:48:00 <kiba> there should be something like mechanical turk
3161 2010-12-15 20:48:07 <kiba> some way for people to do easy work and earn bitcoin
3162 2010-12-15 20:48:08 <judge_mental> yes, i agree
3163 2010-12-15 20:48:40 <kiba> we got a lot of work that is thinking-intensive
3164 2010-12-15 20:48:49 <kiba> but nobody wants to do them
3165 2010-12-15 20:48:58 <kiba> even though the compensation is quite good
3166 2010-12-15 20:49:11 <judge_mental> like what?
3167 2010-12-15 20:49:35 <kiba> android client is worth about 1740 bitcoins
3168 2010-12-15 20:50:16 <judge_mental> what about breaking up the work into chunks... crowdsource the labour for smaller payments.
3169 2010-12-15 20:50:27 <kiba> software development?
3170 2010-12-15 20:50:31 <EvanR-work> kiba: ill look into that tonight
3171 2010-12-15 20:50:42 <kiba> meh
3172 2010-12-15 20:50:47 <kiba> duplication of effort
3173 2010-12-15 20:50:48 <TD> well, $500 for a project like that isn't a whole lot for a good programmer. if somebody makes an android client, it'll be because they like bitcoin and android rather than for the money
3174 2010-12-15 20:50:55 <Granttt> judge: lovemachineinc does it this way... http://www.lovemachineinc.com/worklistworkroom/
3175 2010-12-15 20:51:40 <zygf> actually, my friend might happily do it for that sum, lemme ask him
3176 2010-12-15 20:52:38 <kiba> for up and incoming new programmers, it's quite good compensation
3177 2010-12-15 20:54:47 <EvanR-work> im broke, i do anything for coin
3178 2010-12-15 20:55:57 <judge_mental> lol
3179 2010-12-15 20:56:19 <EvanR-work> bitbroke
3180 2010-12-15 20:56:31 <TD> i guess it depends what you mean by android client
3181 2010-12-15 20:56:46 <TD> a fully blown network node would probably have issues with carrier gateways, if not running via wifi
3182 2010-12-15 20:57:10 <TD> something that holds your wallet locally and then connects to some kind of supernode only when making a transaction, that'd be very valuable though
3183 2010-12-15 20:58:05 * tcatm is working on an android remote for bitcoin.
3184 2010-12-15 20:58:06 genjix has left ()
3185 2010-12-15 20:58:16 <TD> i was talking to a guy today who worked on CC anti abuse. apparently the amount of fraud from keyloggers and other forms of CC theft is staggering. his view was that without chargebacks, you can't have an online currency because if it got popular viruses would drain peoples accounts.
3186 2010-12-15 20:58:19 <TD> tcatm: awesome
3187 2010-12-15 20:58:24 * TD has an android phone
3188 2010-12-15 20:58:45 <EvanR-work> CC?
3189 2010-12-15 20:58:49 <TD> i'd feel a lot safer doing transactions from my phone than a PC/laptop. that said, getting addresses onto the device would need careful thought
3190 2010-12-15 20:58:51 <TD> credit card
3191 2010-12-15 20:58:53 <kiba> credit card fraud eh?
3192 2010-12-15 20:58:53 <midnightmagic> credit card?
3193 2010-12-15 20:59:12 <kiba> keyloggers
3194 2010-12-15 20:59:13 <midnightmagic> just delete the windows versions and you should be fine..
3195 2010-12-15 20:59:16 <EvanR-work> but what is there to key log in bitcoin?
3196 2010-12-15 20:59:17 <kiba> how do they get installed?
3197 2010-12-15 20:59:19 <Granttt> td: yea but CC like paypal, ppl use it without care because it has chargebacks
3198 2010-12-15 20:59:36 <TD> EvanR-work: it'd just steal your wallet file
3199 2010-12-15 20:59:49 <Granttt> one cant use it to claim if a non-chargeback currency can work
3200 2010-12-15 21:00:10 <EvanR-work> dont use windows if you value your security
3201 2010-12-15 21:00:19 <EvanR-work> easy
3202 2010-12-15 21:00:21 <kiba> but people DO use window
3203 2010-12-15 21:00:29 <TD> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/04/evidence-suggests-first-zombie-mac-botnet-is-active.ars
3204 2010-12-15 21:00:41 <EvanR-work> fine then let virus writers get their money, the market will prevail
3205 2010-12-15 21:00:44 <TD> windows isn't especially insecure relative to macos/linux. it's just popular.
3206 2010-12-15 21:01:05 <kiba> TD: and people install all kind of programs all the time
3207 2010-12-15 21:01:25 <zygf> oh come on guys, it's only a matter of time before linux has its share of malware, I love it, but its security model only protects the system from the user, not the user's data from apps/plugins one installs manually or security holes in browsers
3208 2010-12-15 21:01:45 <EvanR-work> dont use firefox if you value your security
3209 2010-12-15 21:01:45 <nanotube> TD: the thing is, the fraud losses do eventually get eaten by /someone/. in case of non-chargebackable currency, it is the user, in case of cc chargebacks, it is the merchant.
3210 2010-12-15 21:02:07 <TD> right. but users outnumber merchants quite significantly. also merchants can regain their losses via higher prices. users cannot regain theirs.
3211 2010-12-15 21:02:20 <TD> i'm not saying this is a fatal flaw for bitcoin or anything
3212 2010-12-15 21:02:35 <TD> you just have to ramp up the security to deal with the fact that recovering is harder
3213 2010-12-15 21:02:38 <nanotube> not if a merchant is in a competitive industry, and his competitors do a better job of fraud prevention.
3214 2010-12-15 21:02:42 <Granttt> td: users could if merchants werent rising their prices to make up for chargeback fraud
3215 2010-12-15 21:02:44 <TD> so like, holding your wallet on a smartphone is a good plan
3216 2010-12-15 21:03:00 <Granttt> i been using the non-chargebackable L$ currency since 2005
3217 2010-12-15 21:03:18 <Granttt> never had a prob, i just dont throw it at anything
3218 2010-12-15 21:03:37 <Granttt> and same with RL paper money
3219 2010-12-15 21:03:43 <TD> the CC guy i talked to said only a few companies have seriously CC anti fraud operations. he said most (online) merchants just raise prices.
3220 2010-12-15 21:03:44 <TD> sure
3221 2010-12-15 21:03:59 <TD> if bitcoin gets popular enough that viruses steal your wallet, satoshi wins the internet :-)
3222 2010-12-15 21:04:01 <tcatm> TD: how do you backup your wallet on a phone?
3223 2010-12-15 21:04:14 Dashkal has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3224 2010-12-15 21:04:18 <TD> not back it up. hold the only (unencrypted) copy on your phone
3225 2010-12-15 21:04:23 <TD> no wallet on a PC/laptop at all
3226 2010-12-15 21:04:37 <RichardG> <TD> if bitcoin gets popular enough that viruses steal your wallet, satoshi wins the internet :-)
3227 2010-12-15 21:04:38 <RichardG> ^^
3228 2010-12-15 21:05:13 <kiba> The richest man in the world is still a mystery
3229 2010-12-15 21:05:14 <tcatm> from my experience it is easier to lose data on a phone than on a pc
3230 2010-12-15 21:05:23 <EvanR-work> in the worst case scenario its as bad as using your debit card
3231 2010-12-15 21:05:24 Dashkal has joined
3232 2010-12-15 21:05:27 <kiba> in the year 2034
3233 2010-12-15 21:05:55 <kiba> after satoshi invented bitcoin
3234 2010-12-15 21:06:09 <kiba> there will be a series of cranks who tries to imitate satoshi, but fail badly
3235 2010-12-15 21:06:11 <TD> tcatm: yeah. so maybe have an encrypted copy of the wallet on your PC, and the key is a password you only type into your phone or something
3236 2010-12-15 21:06:26 <kiba> picture passwords
3237 2010-12-15 21:06:26 <TD> like upload your encrypted wallet to google docs
3238 2010-12-15 21:06:49 <Granttt> better keep it offline
3239 2010-12-15 21:07:01 <Granttt> use a usb stick, hide it in a safebox
3240 2010-12-15 21:07:11 <EvanR-work> cant people stop installing keyloggers?
3241 2010-12-15 21:07:12 <kiba> two wallets
3242 2010-12-15 21:07:18 <TD> apparently they can't .....
3243 2010-12-15 21:07:26 <kiba> one for daily use
3244 2010-12-15 21:07:34 <kiba> another for saving
3245 2010-12-15 21:07:39 <EvanR-work> next we will have to wear masks while using the computer because hackers might be using the webcam
3246 2010-12-15 21:07:50 <Granttt> lol
3247 2010-12-15 21:08:08 <wump> just cover the webcam
3248 2010-12-15 21:08:22 <tcatm> use computers without webcams and microphones
3249 2010-12-15 21:08:28 <wump> that's actually a good security measure if you cannot detach it :p
3250 2010-12-15 21:08:46 <wump> most laptops have built in cams
3251 2010-12-15 21:09:00 <Granttt> uninstall the driver
3252 2010-12-15 21:09:10 <tcatm> not all have :)
3253 2010-12-15 21:09:36 <EvanR-work> no we must use picture passwords, fingerprint scanners, and cover our webcames
3254 2010-12-15 21:09:49 <EvanR-work> is this not absurd?
3255 2010-12-15 21:10:18 <Granttt> evan: its the beatiful world we live in, full of chaos and uncertainty
3256 2010-12-15 21:10:21 <EvanR-work> paranoid fear of a machine you have full control of
3257 2010-12-15 21:10:23 <wump> no, it's not
3258 2010-12-15 21:10:32 <EvanR-work> unless its a mac
3259 2010-12-15 21:10:55 <EvanR-work> in which case steve jobs is watching you
3260 2010-12-15 21:10:59 <EvanR-work> at all times
3261 2010-12-15 21:11:16 <wump> what's paranoid today is normal and run-of-the-mill tomorrow
3262 2010-12-15 21:11:38 <EvanR-work> we need to distribute tin foil hats to get a lead on fashion
3263 2010-12-15 21:11:57 <wump> lol!
3264 2010-12-15 21:12:11 <wump> tinfoil hats, now 3BC a piece!
3265 2010-12-15 21:12:21 redMBA has joined
3266 2010-12-15 21:12:24 PP22 has joined
3267 2010-12-15 21:12:36 <kiba> 3 BTC
3268 2010-12-15 21:12:39 <kiba> not 3 BC
3269 2010-12-15 21:12:46 OneFixt has joined
3270 2010-12-15 21:12:46 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
3271 2010-12-15 21:12:46 OneFixt has joined
3272 2010-12-15 21:12:56 <EvanR-work> 3 coins
3273 2010-12-15 21:13:01 <EvanR-work> there
3274 2010-12-15 21:13:10 <EvanR-work> BTC is too popular
3275 2010-12-15 21:13:16 <EvanR-work> and hard to type
3276 2010-12-15 21:13:59 <kiba> meh
3277 2010-12-15 21:14:02 <kiba> not too hard to type
3278 2010-12-15 21:14:02 <wump> BTC is ok
3279 2010-12-15 21:14:41 <MaTee_> Soon there will be a BTC button on all keyboards :-)
3280 2010-12-15 21:14:55 <Granttt> a lot easier with ฿
3281 2010-12-15 21:15:07 <EvanR-work> ! whats ฿
3282 2010-12-15 21:15:32 <Granttt> official unicode character suggestion from: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=369.0
3283 2010-12-15 21:16:13 <zygf> umm, wikipedia says it's the currency of thailand
3284 2010-12-15 21:16:14 <TD> i preferred the b in a circle :)
3285 2010-12-15 21:16:51 <TD> â
3286 2010-12-15 21:17:37 <MaTee_> If it exist in unicode, it probably already have a use, or?
3287 2010-12-15 21:17:39 <altamic> where is the definition of the Hash function on https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/blob/master/main.h#L1112
3288 2010-12-15 21:17:53 <TD> MaTee_: not really
3289 2010-12-15 21:17:54 <altamic> cscope does not find it
3290 2010-12-15 21:18:10 <MaTee_> Ok, good
3291 2010-12-15 21:18:12 <TD> unicode defines all kinds of random symbols. there are even code point ranges reserved for ancient egyptian and stuff
3292 2010-12-15 21:18:37 <MaTee_> Yes, but ancient egyptian do exist :)
3293 2010-12-15 21:18:53 <EvanR-work> use @! ;)
3294 2010-12-15 21:19:30 <altamic> ok is a macro on util.h
3295 2010-12-15 21:19:52 <altamic> s/macro/function/
3296 2010-12-15 21:20:17 <TD> MaTee_: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/So/list.htm
3297 2010-12-15 21:20:24 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3298 2010-12-15 21:21:57 <MaTee_> I see.. â should work, i like it alot more than taking Thailands ฿
3299 2010-12-15 21:23:12 <EvanR-work> but it doesnt show up in gnu unifont ;)
3300 2010-12-15 21:23:25 <Granttt> or use: Yml0Y29pbg== as symbol ;)
3301 2010-12-15 21:23:33 <Granttt> thats word bitcoin in base64
3302 2010-12-15 21:24:45 <wump> â is pretty cool
3303 2010-12-15 21:25:12 <MaTee_> EvanR-work: You could also write it as (b)
3304 2010-12-15 21:25:29 <EvanR-work> is it a precombined character?
3305 2010-12-15 21:25:42 <TD> no
3306 2010-12-15 21:25:44 <MaTee_> No
3307 2010-12-15 21:25:45 <TD> it has its own code point
3308 2010-12-15 21:25:58 <wump> 0x24d1
3309 2010-12-15 21:26:38 <EvanR-work> 3(b) for a tinfoil hat
3310 2010-12-15 21:26:45 <EvanR-work> BTC is easier than that
3311 2010-12-15 21:26:54 <wump> CIRCLED LATIN SMALL LETTER B
3312 2010-12-15 21:27:50 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3313 2010-12-15 21:29:36 <MaTee_> EvanR-work: Yeah.. it's quite ugly. BTC can be a three letter acronym, like USD or EUR. â is like $ or â¬.
3314 2010-12-15 21:30:01 <MaTee_> (b) is just a poor mans drawing :-)
3315 2010-12-15 21:31:49 <wump> yeah, (b) is ugly
3316 2010-12-15 21:31:58 <wump> a mistyped copyright
3317 2010-12-15 21:32:01 RichardG has joined
3318 2010-12-15 21:32:27 <johndrinkwater> unicode peeps would kick you for using â though, its hardly in the currency block..
3319 2010-12-15 21:32:52 <RichardG> â
3320 2010-12-15 21:32:53 <Keefe> BTC would be some Bhutanese currency (besides the ngultrum), going by ISO 4217
3321 2010-12-15 21:32:58 <RichardG> almost impossible to copypaste on mirc.
3322 2010-12-15 21:33:02 <johndrinkwater> iâd suggest B¤, a B & U+00A4
3323 2010-12-15 21:33:17 <wump> we cannot expect an unknown currency to be added to the currency block
3324 2010-12-15 21:33:20 <wump> maybe later :p
3325 2010-12-15 21:33:22 <johndrinkwater> A4 = currency sign
3326 2010-12-15 21:34:43 <MaTee_> So BTC and ฿ is already taken. I don't think they should be used..
3327 2010-12-15 21:34:45 <johndrinkwater> wump, theyâll accept it if BTC is popular
3328 2010-12-15 21:35:40 <MaTee_> BTC is not listed here: http://www.easy-forex.com/evo/currencyacronyms.aspx
3329 2010-12-15 21:35:54 <MaTee_> Keefe: Where did you see it?
3330 2010-12-15 21:36:19 <wump> every symbol and three letter abbreviation probably is already used somewhere on the world at some point in time
3331 2010-12-15 21:36:25 <lfm> guess its not real then
3332 2010-12-15 21:36:39 <wump> we really should use what we think looks good instead of being driven by 'it should be new'
3333 2010-12-15 21:36:41 <fabianhjr> What about iBi and electrons flying around. the i's being peer?
3334 2010-12-15 21:36:53 <fabianhjr> s/peer/peers/
3335 2010-12-15 21:37:02 <wump> there are also multiple countries that use dollars, for example
3336 2010-12-15 21:37:10 <MaTee_> wump: yes, but not for curenices
3337 2010-12-15 21:37:15 <wump> still us dollar and aus dollar are completely different
3338 2010-12-15 21:37:25 <Keefe> BTC is not currently used. i'm just saying that ISO 4217 specifies that the first two letters is the two-letter country code
3339 2010-12-15 21:37:37 <johndrinkwater> would be nice if BTC was used more though, iâve already seen âB$â, eugh.
3340 2010-12-15 21:37:45 <lfm> in 256 coulrs
3341 2010-12-15 21:37:47 <Keefe> BTN is the Bhutanese ngultrum
3342 2010-12-15 21:37:49 <johndrinkwater> Keefe, so XXB ?
3343 2010-12-15 21:38:30 <fabianhjr> What about INB or IBC?
3344 2010-12-15 21:38:34 altamic_ has joined
3345 2010-12-15 21:38:54 <MaTee_> fabianhjr: what does it stand for?
3346 2010-12-15 21:38:59 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3347 2010-12-15 21:39:03 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3348 2010-12-15 21:39:03 altamic_ is now known as altamic
3349 2010-12-15 21:39:17 <fabianhjr> International Bit[coin]
3350 2010-12-15 21:39:38 <Keefe> IN is India
3351 2010-12-15 21:39:45 <fabianhjr> Damn.
3352 2010-12-15 21:39:53 <johndrinkwater> its all a bit messy - ICB: Internet Currency, Bitcoin
3353 2010-12-15 21:39:53 <Keefe> IB is not used though, that i can tell
3354 2010-12-15 21:39:56 <AAA_awright> What about BC?
3355 2010-12-15 21:39:59 <fabianhjr> UN?United nations bitcoin?
3356 2010-12-15 21:40:17 <AAA_awright> fabianhjr: Are you trying to kill Bitcoin?
3357 2010-12-15 21:40:17 <johndrinkwater> BC* is free
3358 2010-12-15 21:40:18 <Keefe> but to fit in ISO 4217, it should start with X
3359 2010-12-15 21:40:18 <MaTee_> The ISO 4217 standard didn't expect countryless curencies :-)
3360 2010-12-15 21:40:21 <Granttt> OSB (Offshore Bitcoin)
3361 2010-12-15 21:40:30 <fabianhjr> hehe, I support 3A
3362 2010-12-15 21:40:44 <Keefe> like XAU for gold
3363 2010-12-15 21:40:59 <AAA_awright> gAu, grams gold
3364 2010-12-15 21:41:00 <johndrinkwater> thing is, EUR for â¬, seems to set a rule for country-less currencies to use first two letters of their choosing
3365 2010-12-15 21:41:03 <Keefe> too bad XBC is already used :(
3366 2010-12-15 21:41:23 <fabianhjr> lol. Maybe we should just call them BC or BTC? Why complicate?
3367 2010-12-15 21:41:29 <Keefe> XBC = European Unit of Account 9 (E.U.A.-9) (bond market unit)
3368 2010-12-15 21:41:53 <AAA_awright> Why not just B?
3369 2010-12-15 21:42:20 <fabianhjr> Well, the current symbol is just a B.
3370 2010-12-15 21:42:21 <AAA_awright> It's not an SI unit as far as I'm aware...
3371 2010-12-15 21:42:22 <johndrinkwater> AAA_awright, weâre talking about ISO 4217 currency codes, it needs to be 3 letters
3372 2010-12-15 21:42:26 <AAA_awright> BBB
3373 2010-12-15 21:42:39 <AAA_awright> b\0\0
3374 2010-12-15 21:42:58 <fabianhjr> AAA only printable chars allowed :P
3375 2010-12-15 21:43:10 <MaTee_> hehe
3376 2010-12-15 21:43:15 <AAA_awright> >:(
3377 2010-12-15 21:43:33 <fabianhjr> :P don't wworry. \t is printable. :P
3378 2010-12-15 21:44:04 <AAA_awright> Well, the first two characters are usually the country code
3379 2010-12-15 21:44:09 <AAA_awright> What country is Bitcoin?
3380 2010-12-15 21:44:15 <johndrinkwater> Internet
3381 2010-12-15 21:44:16 <AAA_awright> JP or XX or US or something
3382 2010-12-15 21:44:23 <AAA_awright> Exactly
3383 2010-12-15 21:44:27 <fabianhjr> IN[ternationa] is already used by IN[dia]
3384 2010-12-15 21:44:37 <johndrinkwater> see my ICB comment above.
3385 2010-12-15 21:44:38 <AAA_awright> XXB
3386 2010-12-15 21:44:39 <MaTee_> IPB Internet Protocol
3387 2010-12-15 21:44:46 <AAA_awright> ^
3388 2010-12-15 21:44:51 <fabianhjr> ^
3389 2010-12-15 21:45:01 <johndrinkwater> 21:36â23 < johndrinkwater> Keefe, so XXB ?
3390 2010-12-15 21:45:03 <johndrinkwater> :P
3391 2010-12-15 21:45:15 <AAA_awright> IPB taken by anyone?
3392 2010-12-15 21:45:23 <fabianhjr> What about Over the Wire[OW] [B]itcoin
3393 2010-12-15 21:45:56 <MaTee_> IPB is free
3394 2010-12-15 21:47:23 PP22 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3395 2010-12-15 21:48:38 <jcw9> .arpa
3396 2010-12-15 21:56:05 <fabianhjr> lol Wished I was borned in the ARPANET era.
3397 2010-12-15 21:56:19 <lfm> i think we're already stuck with BTC
3398 2010-12-15 21:58:01 <kiba> fabianhjr: why?
3399 2010-12-15 21:58:07 <kiba> I like being born in the future
3400 2010-12-15 21:59:12 <fabianhjr> kiba: the future never arrives, when exactly when exactly were you planning to be born?
3401 2010-12-15 21:59:49 * fabianhjr apologies for the delays & errors. Computer is really laggy.
3402 2010-12-15 22:01:29 <kiba> the FUTURE IS NOW
3403 2010-12-15 22:01:36 <Zarutian> just missed it
3404 2010-12-15 22:01:55 <kiba> I was born in 1991
3405 2010-12-15 22:01:55 Wx has joined
3406 2010-12-15 22:01:59 <kiba> Linux was invented
3407 2010-12-15 22:02:05 <kiba> the internet was open to the public
3408 2010-12-15 22:02:10 <fabianhjr> xD, well. I still don't see my f&$*ing flying car.
3409 2010-12-15 22:02:30 <Zarutian> kiba: more like ported from vaxes and other unics variants ;)
3410 2010-12-15 22:02:39 <Wx> kiba: it seems like you're here every time I come in
3411 2010-12-15 22:02:45 <fabianhjr> kiba: linux has not yet seen a wide adoption. It is a shame all games are being released as M$ and Mac only.
3412 2010-12-15 22:02:57 <kiba> you forgot Android!
3413 2010-12-15 22:03:15 <Wx> fabianhjr: even Mac hasn't seen a wide adoption
3414 2010-12-15 22:03:26 <Wx> virtualization--
3415 2010-12-15 22:03:37 <johndrinkwater> humble indie bundle has some new Linux games launches in
3416 2010-12-15 22:03:44 <johndrinkwater> like Braid.
3417 2010-12-15 22:03:55 <johndrinkwater> /OT
3418 2010-12-15 22:04:07 <fabianhjr> Wx: I actually don't own many game and I am saying this because many friends want Windoze by default.
3419 2010-12-15 22:04:10 <Zarutian> fabianhjr: I prefer consoles for games. (And then I mean the old kind that doesnt need firmware upgrades, just put the disc/rom-cassette in, turn on, load, and play!)
3420 2010-12-15 22:04:29 <fabianhjr> Win7 Phone is a big expensive piece of shit.
3421 2010-12-15 22:04:51 <fabianhjr> Like the NES and Atari 2600?
3422 2010-12-15 22:05:05 <Wx> How many BTC could I pay someone to post on my forum? :P
3423 2010-12-15 22:05:18 MaTee_ has left ()
3424 2010-12-15 22:05:25 <fabianhjr> What is it about?
3425 2010-12-15 22:05:32 <Zarutian> fabianhjr: SNES, Sega, PlayStation 1, DreamCast and such
3426 2010-12-15 22:05:48 <johndrinkwater> Wx, 50BTC per post, ta ;)
3427 2010-12-15 22:05:55 <Zarutian> Wx: as many as you have ;)
3428 2010-12-15 22:05:58 <fabianhjr> Zarutian: I prefer PC games since I can always write mods etc.
3429 2010-12-15 22:06:20 <fabianhjr> Well, eitherway nowadays I can emulate any videogame consol before 2000.
3430 2010-12-15 22:06:29 <Zarutian> fabianhjr: but old SNES and NEO-GEO run in emulators are good too
3431 2010-12-15 22:06:43 <AAA_awright> Predicting the future is a mug's game, but it's a game mugs everywhere learn to play, because the future is always changing, and we're going to have to live there, probably as soon as next week.
3432 2010-12-15 22:06:53 <lfm> Zarutian: you should try the gameboy DS thingys. they are kinda like that
3433 2010-12-15 22:07:10 <fabianhjr> AAA_awright: I can predict the future. One day.... prepare for it.
3434 2010-12-15 22:07:16 <fabianhjr> You will DIE!
3435 2010-12-15 22:07:25 <Zarutian> lfm: doesnt apeal to me. Bad experience with hinged beep games.
3436 2010-12-15 22:07:54 <fabianhjr> I will also die one day. :P
3437 2010-12-15 22:08:06 <Zarutian> AAA_awright: it is hard to predict the future, it is better to invent it ;)
3438 2010-12-15 22:08:11 <lfm> fabianhjr: go take your pills
3439 2010-12-15 22:08:30 aksez has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3440 2010-12-15 22:08:34 <fabianhjr> lfm? You monster...
3441 2010-12-15 22:09:02 <fabianhjr> Agree with Zarutian. It is better to make shit happen than to wait for it.
3442 2010-12-15 22:09:10 <lfm> you're the one raving
3443 2010-12-15 22:09:29 <Zarutian> lfm: all in your demented imagination ;Ã
3444 2010-12-15 22:09:37 <RichardG> I got a somewhat weird idea, extend Invision Power Board's subscription system to BTC.
3445 2010-12-15 22:09:45 * altamic wonders why he sucks so hard at programming
3446 2010-12-15 22:10:40 theymos has joined
3447 2010-12-15 22:11:16 <Zarutian> altamic: because it is HARD, so go shopping with consulant_barbie ;) No really it is not easy to manage so much complexity.
3448 2010-12-15 22:14:08 albatross_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3449 2010-12-15 22:18:56 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3450 2010-12-15 22:21:53 <EvanR-work> its not hard with the right zen and the right customer ;)
3451 2010-12-15 22:22:04 matsh has joined
3452 2010-12-15 22:22:36 <matsh> Hi! I think I've found a smallish bug in 0.3.18
3453 2010-12-15 22:22:45 <lfm> wtg
3454 2010-12-15 22:23:23 <altamic> I am my customer at the moment
3455 2010-12-15 22:23:58 <theymos> matsh: What's the bug?
3456 2010-12-15 22:24:12 <matsh> On the API page the exact information sent back from gettransaction is a bit vague, but it should, IMNSHO return the same kind of data as the listtransactions function, but there is a small diffrerence: The gettransaction does not pass along the category
3457 2010-12-15 22:24:25 Wx has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3458 2010-12-15 22:25:37 <matsh> If I sendtoaddress, save the txId and pass it to the gettransaction function, the JSON i get back doesn't have a category property at all. It should have one set to "send"
3459 2010-12-15 22:25:57 Phoebus has joined
3460 2010-12-15 22:26:15 <matsh> Is there a proper bug tracking place, or is it enough for me to post it here?
3461 2010-12-15 22:26:26 <EvanR-work> crap this is going to have effect on the price of bitcoins! ;)
3462 2010-12-15 22:26:46 <matsh> Abso-fucking-lotely
3463 2010-12-15 22:26:57 <matsh> Abso-fucking-lutely
3464 2010-12-15 22:27:21 <fabianhjr> EvanR-work: perfect time to buy then!
3465 2010-12-15 22:27:30 <EvanR-work> lol
3466 2010-12-15 22:27:58 * EvanR-work puts an offer at 1 US cent per bitcoin
3467 2010-12-15 22:28:06 <theymos> matsh: Post it on the forum. There is no bug tracker.
3468 2010-12-15 22:28:26 <Phoebus> EvanR-work, sell or buy offer? :P
3469 2010-12-15 22:28:29 nova has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3470 2010-12-15 22:28:30 <EvanR-work> buy
3471 2010-12-15 22:28:39 <EvanR-work> ill take 10$ worth
3472 2010-12-15 22:28:45 <matsh> OK, I will. Thanks guys!
3473 2010-12-15 22:28:50 <Phoebus> Right, I thought it was at 25 cents right now.
3474 2010-12-15 22:28:57 <T_X> hmm, there's gavinandresen's git repo of bitcoin. there you could enter bugs
3475 2010-12-15 22:29:47 <T_X> gavinandresen would probably pass it on quickly, I guess :). and might be nice to have some sort of bugtracking, so if used frequently, satoshi might start looking at that tracker regularly ;)
3476 2010-12-15 22:30:04 <altamic> thank you matsh
3477 2010-12-15 22:30:04 <altamic> T_X I don't know if Satoshi would approve
3478 2010-12-15 22:30:04 <altamic> maybe forum is better atm
3479 2010-12-15 22:30:05 <johndrinkwater> whats the public #bitcoin-dev log URL?
3480 2010-12-15 22:30:07 <T_X> or what do the othres think?
3481 2010-12-15 22:30:20 <matsh> Well, what is the correct way? If I post it in gavins bug repo, will he fix it and merge the fix back to satoshi's code?
3482 2010-12-15 22:30:23 <Phoebus> johndrinkwater, just cycle the channel and check your notices /cycle
3483 2010-12-15 22:30:28 <theymos> johndrinkwater: http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/
3484 2010-12-15 22:30:36 <Phoebus> Or that :P
3485 2010-12-15 22:30:36 <johndrinkwater> ta you two
3486 2010-12-15 22:30:41 <johndrinkwater> Phoebus, pff, leaving
3487 2010-12-15 22:31:11 <T_X> matsh: I think he'd fix it and/or pass it on to satoshi. satoshi seems to be quite willing to include gavinandresen's patches at the moment
3488 2010-12-15 22:31:47 <fabianhjr> Do CCP Games allow exchanges?
3489 2010-12-15 22:32:12 <matsh> OK, thanks
3490 2010-12-15 22:32:25 <T_X> altamic: why should satoshi not approve? too obvious publicity?
3491 2010-12-15 22:33:31 <johndrinkwater> its a shame the log bot mungs unicode
3492 2010-12-15 22:34:49 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3493 2010-12-15 22:36:10 <matsh> OK, I filed it here: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/issues/issue/20
3494 2010-12-15 22:39:09 altamic has joined
3495 2010-12-15 22:43:53 alfplayer2 has joined
3496 2010-12-15 22:47:08 Lyspooner has joined
3497 2010-12-15 22:48:01 <Lyspooner> !pool
3498 2010-12-15 22:48:02 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 30secs ago): 77 clients, 152506 khash/s, next block est. 3days 23hrs 50mins 49secs
3499 2010-12-15 22:49:19 <Lyspooner> were conclusions reached about carteling yesterday?
3500 2010-12-15 22:49:29 <Phoebus> ^
3501 2010-12-15 22:50:10 Grantt has joined
3502 2010-12-15 22:50:11 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
3503 2010-12-15 22:50:14 Grantt is now known as Granttt
3504 2010-12-15 22:50:19 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
3505 2010-12-15 22:50:19 Granttt has joined
3506 2010-12-15 22:50:44 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,help
3507 2010-12-15 22:50:44 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
3508 2010-12-15 22:51:06 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,mtgox
3509 2010-12-15 22:51:06 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2468,"low":0.215,"vol":3740,"buy":0.24,"sell":0.2459,"last":0.2459}}
3510 2010-12-15 22:51:50 <RichardG> ,,bc,mtgox
3511 2010-12-15 22:51:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2468,"low":0.215,"vol":3740,"buy":0.24,"sell":0.2459,"last":0.2459}}
3512 2010-12-15 22:51:53 <EvanR-work> is that the last 48 hours, or just today or
3513 2010-12-15 22:51:58 <EvanR-work> does mtgox close?
3514 2010-12-15 22:51:59 <RichardG> ;;help bc,mtgox
3515 2010-12-15 22:51:59 <gribble> (bc,mtgox <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "web fetch https://mtgox.com/code/ticker.php".
3516 2010-12-15 22:52:09 <fabianhjr> mtgox never closes.
3517 2010-12-15 22:52:21 <fabianhjr> AFAIK it is 48 hour range.
3518 2010-12-15 22:52:37 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,totalbc
3519 2010-12-15 22:52:37 <gribble> 4888200.00000000
3520 2010-12-15 22:53:22 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,timetonext
3521 2010-12-15 22:53:23 <gribble> 6 days, 3 hours, 24 minutes, and 52 seconds
3522 2010-12-15 22:53:40 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,markets
3523 2010-12-15 22:53:43 <gribble> bcmLRUSD: 0.14 (100 BTC) 0.22/0.25 | bcmPPUSD: 0.25 (1100 BTC) 0.235/0.25 | bcmPXGAU: 0.0061 (300 BTC) 0.0046/0.0062 | btcexJPY: 15.5018 (9 BTC) None/None | btcexRUB: 8.2425 (66.75 BTC) None/None | btcexWMR: 6 (28 BTC) None/None | mtgoxUSD: 0.2459 (3584.68 BTC) 0.24/0.2459
3524 2010-12-15 22:54:02 <T_X> matsh: cool! I'm curious how that'll work out :P. maybe that might give satoshi a little more attention and push towards git(orious), too ;)
3525 2010-12-15 22:54:21 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3526 2010-12-15 22:54:22 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,estimate
3527 2010-12-15 22:54:22 <gribble> 14101.47965499
3528 2010-12-15 22:54:35 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3529 2010-12-15 22:54:47 <fabianhjr> ;;help bc,estimate
3530 2010-12-15 22:54:47 <gribble> (bc,estimate <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "web fetch http://blockexplorer.com/q/estimate".
3531 2010-12-15 22:55:35 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3532 2010-12-15 22:55:41 <matsh> Git would be good, we definitely need a bug database, but most of all we need unit tests
3533 2010-12-15 22:56:04 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,diff
3534 2010-12-15 22:56:05 <gribble> 12252.03471156
3535 2010-12-15 22:56:20 <EvanR-work> diff?
3536 2010-12-15 22:56:21 <matsh> Jesus C, such a big code base, and not a single unit tests...
3537 2010-12-15 22:56:40 <EvanR-work> real code doesnt need unit tests
3538 2010-12-15 22:56:49 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,bcm
3539 2010-12-15 22:56:50 <gribble> [{"pair": "BCUSD[MoneyBookers]", "ask": 0.0, "bid": 0.14999999999999999, "time": 1292453719}, {"pair": "BCGAU[Pecunix]", "ask": 0.0061999999999999998, "bid": 0.0045999999999999999, "time": 1292453719}, {"pair": "BCUSD[PayPal]", "ask": 0.25, "bid": 0.23499999999999999, "time": 1292453719}, {"pair": "BCUSD[LibertyReserve]", "ask": 0.25, "bid": 0.22, "time": 1292453719}]
3540 2010-12-15 22:56:53 <matsh> Very funny
3541 2010-12-15 22:57:14 <kiba> the benefit of unit testing is its regression suite
3542 2010-12-15 22:57:36 <EvanR-work> those json numbers look very fishy
3543 2010-12-15 22:58:56 <matsh> Plus you can refactor with confidence instead of just guessing
3544 2010-12-15 22:59:21 <matsh> Plus it is easier to port to other languages when there's observable external behaviour, not just voodoo
3545 2010-12-15 22:59:30 <EvanR-work> if you cant refactor with confidence somethings wrong
3546 2010-12-15 22:59:47 <matsh> Right, which is why we need unit tests
3547 2010-12-15 22:59:53 <matsh> So, we agree. Good.
3548 2010-12-15 22:59:59 <EvanR-work> the wrong thing in this case is c++
3549 2010-12-15 23:00:10 <kiba> satoshi old school?
3550 2010-12-15 23:00:17 <kiba> SVN + C++ is old school
3551 2010-12-15 23:00:22 <matsh> No, C++ is OK in some cases, what bothers me is no unit tests
3552 2010-12-15 23:00:45 <T_X> unit tests would be a cool thing :). especially if so many people are relying on this piece of software
3553 2010-12-15 23:01:07 <T_X> and/or some more implementations :)
3554 2010-12-15 23:01:25 <EvanR-work> yes
3555 2010-12-15 23:01:28 <matsh> I'm don't think we have the right to point finger, all we can do is to pitch in. I work on the Java Client API
3556 2010-12-15 23:01:50 <EvanR-work> whats MT`AwAy's like
3557 2010-12-15 23:02:15 <matsh> That works reasonably well, but if I ever want to write a Java port, then no existing unit tests for the existing code base is going to be a pain
3558 2010-12-15 23:02:48 <EvanR-work> haskell seems like a great match for this program
3559 2010-12-15 23:03:23 <EvanR-work> just dont have a gui ;)
3560 2010-12-15 23:09:18 darrob has joined
3561 2010-12-15 23:12:51 asdf30 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3562 2010-12-15 23:12:59 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3563 2010-12-15 23:13:01 asdf30 has joined
3564 2010-12-15 23:14:16 genjix has joined
3565 2010-12-15 23:14:27 <genjix> ok i need your support
3566 2010-12-15 23:14:30 <genjix> http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/rake-free-open-poker-room-run-poker-community-938389/index12.html#post23545763
3567 2010-12-15 23:14:38 <genjix> big bitcoin propaganda opportunity here
3568 2010-12-15 23:14:50 <genjix> someone is arguing that government will shut it down because its so subversive
3569 2010-12-15 23:15:39 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3570 2010-12-15 23:16:05 * EvanR-work bribes a senator with bitcoins to avoid it
3571 2010-12-15 23:16:16 <donpdonp> lolz
3572 2010-12-15 23:16:22 <Granttt> good, let idiots argue lol
3573 2010-12-15 23:16:56 <genjix> people have been emailing me non-stop since yesterday offering their congratulations or help with this bitcoin project.
3574 2010-12-15 23:17:08 <genjix> many people are silently watching this thread, uneasily on the edge.
3575 2010-12-15 23:17:49 <genjix> it would be a big boon to convince people that bitcoin is viable there, as this is a big application for bitcoin. this is a propaganda photoshoot.
3576 2010-12-15 23:18:32 <genjix> i dont mind if it degenerates into a bitcoin thread because it's all about bitcoins anyway.
3577 2010-12-15 23:19:21 <Granttt> the thing is that bitcoin is a too genious of a thing, to be easily accepted by skeptics
3578 2010-12-15 23:19:43 <genjix> "I'm sorry, but this is something hacktivism is grossly incapable of achieving."
3579 2010-12-15 23:20:19 <genjix> each swing of the hacktivist hammer makes shockwaves twice as large as the one before.
3580 2010-12-15 23:22:09 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
3581 2010-12-15 23:24:30 judge_mental has quit (Quit: judge_mental)
3582 2010-12-15 23:24:45 <zygf> I share that guy's pessimism, if bitcoin gets too popular, it will probably be legislated against
3583 2010-12-15 23:25:20 <tcatm> Which would get bitcoin a lot more attention :)
3584 2010-12-15 23:25:44 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
3585 2010-12-15 23:25:52 grondilu has joined
3586 2010-12-15 23:25:53 <zygf> sure it can still work outside the law, but depending on the legal gravity of the felony/crime it becomes, regular people might not risk using it
3587 2010-12-15 23:25:58 <genjix> saluton grondilu
3588 2010-12-15 23:26:05 matsh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3589 2010-12-15 23:26:09 grondilu has quit (Client Quit)
3590 2010-12-15 23:26:31 <genjix> dont you think that bitcoin will just end up complementing normal currency?
3591 2010-12-15 23:26:43 <genjix> it's a very handy tool for online micro transactions.
3592 2010-12-15 23:26:59 <zygf> it won't be handy if it's illegal
3593 2010-12-15 23:27:13 <genjix> what can they do though?
3594 2010-12-15 23:27:15 <genjix> really.
3595 2010-12-15 23:27:39 <genjix> shut down the internet? throttle bitcoin traffic?
3596 2010-12-15 23:28:08 <tcatm> Depends on how much computing power they have...
3597 2010-12-15 23:28:13 <zygf> raid your house if you're detected using bitcoin? :P
3598 2010-12-15 23:28:34 <genjix> in iran they couldn't stop people
3599 2010-12-15 23:28:50 <genjix> they shut down the internet. total blackout.
3600 2010-12-15 23:28:55 <zygf> they also torture and kill the people they do catch...
3601 2010-12-15 23:29:07 <genjix> no they don't. that's rubbish.
3602 2010-12-15 23:29:28 <tcatm> They could flood the block chain, raise difficulty to insane levels, then stop hashing.
3603 2010-12-15 23:30:05 <zygf> I meant in general, not some particular online activity in iran, but anti-government activism
3604 2010-12-15 23:30:53 <genjix> ok. that's true.
3605 2010-12-15 23:31:05 <Granttt> but bitcoin itself isnt doing anything illegal
3606 2010-12-15 23:31:10 <genjix> although general policy is just to beat the shit out of you.
3607 2010-12-15 23:31:18 <Granttt> its like banning the USD only because its the optimal currency for trading cocaine
3608 2010-12-15 23:31:25 <zygf> anyway, police conduct raids on university dorms confiscating computers under suspicion of file sharing here, that's mostly for show I guess, they'd take illegal currency trading more seriously
3609 2010-12-15 23:31:35 <genjix> like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency huh?
3610 2010-12-15 23:31:56 <zygf> here being .pl
3611 2010-12-15 23:32:26 <genjix> won't they first ignore bitcoin because it seems small & insignificant like local currency.
3612 2010-12-15 23:33:18 <genjix> then defame bitcoin. claim it's used for criminal activity.
3613 2010-12-15 23:33:21 <zygf> sure, but after the first big media campaign highlighting how some terrorists or pedophiles used it for something it will go like an avalanche
3614 2010-12-15 23:33:28 <genjix> then try to ban it and fail when it's too big.
3615 2010-12-15 23:33:39 <Granttt> they tried similar wtih the linden dollar
3616 2010-12-15 23:33:44 <Granttt> it survived
3617 2010-12-15 23:34:15 <genjix> it'd be nice to have competing currencies with btc
3618 2010-12-15 23:34:19 <Granttt> here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/virtual-terrorists/story-e6frg6z6-1111114072291
3619 2010-12-15 23:34:29 <genjix> some inflationary, some not... find the sweet spot.
3620 2010-12-15 23:35:28 <zygf> but if everybody and their dog are making their own currency, the whole idea might quickly lose credibility
3621 2010-12-15 23:36:10 <davux> who's in charge of the wiki?
3622 2010-12-15 23:36:16 <genjix> Granttt: hahaha! that's ridiculous
3623 2010-12-15 23:36:24 <genjix> davux: you can edit it.
3624 2010-12-15 23:36:27 <davux> i created an account but never received the confirmation email with the password
3625 2010-12-15 23:36:30 <Granttt> right, and the wrost thing is its serious
3626 2010-12-15 23:36:38 <davux> genjix: not the accounts :p
3627 2010-12-15 23:36:42 <genjix> really? sounded light humour to me.
3628 2010-12-15 23:36:49 <genjix> i'll sit and read it now.
3629 2010-12-15 23:36:59 <johndrinkwater> paedophiles and terrorists can use suitcases of money more easily than bitcoins, thats a silly notion :)
3630 2010-12-15 23:37:24 <genjix> i'd play and pretend to be a terrorist on SL- looks fun.
3631 2010-12-15 23:37:39 <Keefe> ;;bc,estimate
3632 2010-12-15 23:37:40 <gribble> 14156.74548918
3633 2010-12-15 23:37:50 <genjix> "train as a terrorist day". wonder what training they actually do.
3634 2010-12-15 23:37:54 <zygf> when has common sense stopped a piece of legislation? :P
3635 2010-12-15 23:38:22 <genjix> johndrinkwater: much harder to transport suitcases of money over wide areas.
3636 2010-12-15 23:38:50 <johndrinkwater> tbf, bitcoin economy doesnt support suitcases of money yet :^)
3637 2010-12-15 23:39:01 <zygf> plus suitcases aren't that convenient, you have to lug them around, over vast distances it's expensive and risky
3638 2010-12-15 23:39:36 <OneFixt> "Kevin Zuccato, head of the Australian High Tech Crime Centre in Canberra, says terrorists can gain training in games such as World of Warcraft in a simulated environment, using weapons that are identical to real-world armaments."
3639 2010-12-15 23:39:46 <Granttt> LOL
3640 2010-12-15 23:40:01 <OneFixt> Cause they can definitely go buy a suit of epic armor at the corner store.
3641 2010-12-15 23:40:41 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3642 2010-12-15 23:40:54 <genjix> LOL
3643 2010-12-15 23:42:49 asdf30 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3644 2010-12-15 23:43:19 asdf30 has joined
3645 2010-12-15 23:44:22 <midnightmagic> !facts
3646 2010-12-15 23:44:55 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,facts
3647 2010-12-15 23:44:55 <gribble> Error: "bc,facts" is not a valid command.
3648 2010-12-15 23:45:01 <midnightmagic> ;;facts
3649 2010-12-15 23:45:02 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
3650 2010-12-15 23:48:36 <johndrinkwater> ;;rank
3651 2010-12-15 23:48:36 <gribble> #1 pool (17), #2 weaknesses (5), #3 gribble (5), #4 wiki (4), #5 txfee (4), #6 website (2), #7 anonymity (2), #8 googlegroup (1), #9 faq (1), #10 bbe (0), #11 freebitcoins (0), #12 faucet (0), #13 trade (0)
3652 2010-12-15 23:50:32 edcba has joined
3653 2010-12-15 23:51:48 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,calc 330000
3654 2010-12-15 23:51:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 330000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 day, 20 hours, 17 minutes, and 40 seconds
3655 2010-12-15 23:52:39 <fabianhjr> So, the miner produces pseudorandom data and then hashes it. Is it guaranteed to always be unique?
3656 2010-12-15 23:53:16 <fabianhjr> Also, it could be fun to have a miner were the users gives the input to hash just for the fun of it. :D
3657 2010-12-15 23:53:29 Grantt has joined
3658 2010-12-15 23:53:36 <fabianhjr> What do you think?
3659 2010-12-15 23:54:05 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
3660 2010-12-15 23:54:11 Grantt is now known as Granttt
3661 2010-12-15 23:54:12 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
3662 2010-12-15 23:54:13 Granttt has joined
3663 2010-12-15 23:56:01 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
3664 2010-12-15 23:56:02 <tcatm> fabianhjr: What do you mean bit user giving input to hash?
3665 2010-12-15 23:56:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97776 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1007 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14168.74807422
3666 2010-12-15 23:56:46 <johndrinkwater> fabianhjr, not sure letting the user pick a random number is that much fun. lol
3667 2010-12-15 23:56:48 <fabianhjr> tcatm, currently the miner is attempting to generate pseudo-random data that hashes under the target.
3668 2010-12-15 23:56:58 <fabianhjr> xD
3669 2010-12-15 23:57:04 <tcatm> It's not.
3670 2010-12-15 23:57:38 <fabianhjr> It would be fun if you guessed the winning hash. Another thing would be to just make it a game so the timing between the keystrokes and the keystrokes generates the data.
3671 2010-12-15 23:58:04 <fabianhjr> maybe a Pong Game?
3672 2010-12-15 23:59:33 <tcatm> The miner is not hashing random data. Making the user guess the hash would only slow it down... :)
3673 2010-12-15 23:59:58 <genjix> Granttt: christ, are they honestly that retarded or pulling my leg?