1 2010-12-17 00:00:13 <altamic> a parser in 114 lines
   2 2010-12-17 00:00:16 <yebyen> parsing with derivatives?
   3 2010-12-17 00:00:26 <yebyen> it will be good for me, i will read that
   4 2010-12-17 00:00:30 <yebyen> bitdns will sit in the queue
   5 2010-12-17 00:00:42 <yebyen> lol
   6 2010-12-17 00:00:50 <yebyen> what's it parsing?
   7 2010-12-17 00:00:59 <altamic> a grammar that you define
   8 2010-12-17 00:01:33 <yebyen> it uses the promise idea
   9 2010-12-17 00:01:35 <yebyen> that's cool
  10 2010-12-17 00:02:05 Cusipzzz has joined
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  12 2010-12-17 00:07:49 noagendamarket has joined
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  18 2010-12-17 00:33:40 altamic has joined
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  20 2010-12-17 00:42:05 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|!pool
  21 2010-12-17 00:42:06 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 16mins 46secs ago): 34 clients, 56992 khash/s, next block est. 1wk 3days 16hrs 28mins 44secs
  22 2010-12-17 00:42:14 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|it's set to failover servers
  23 2010-12-17 00:43:14 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|!pool
  24 2010-12-17 00:43:14 <RichardG> Could not obtain pooled miner status - log empty? Last log line: Address 1LnpkHmrGvrcmrCncCkiVraov6Mm9BuAXm will receive 0.00758401 BTC if this block is solved
  25 2010-12-17 00:43:46 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|!pool
  26 2010-12-17 00:43:47 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 42secs ago): 34 clients, 56086 khash/s, next block est. 1wk 3days 20hrs 37mins 19secs
  27 2010-12-17 00:47:22 <nanotube> RG|xchat: hmm, looks like doublec's pool is experiencing some attrition. at this rate it may never solve another block.
  28 2010-12-17 00:47:44 <[Noodles]> last time i checked, it's been down again
  29 2010-12-17 00:47:58 <nanotube> yea, vps limit troubles
  30 2010-12-17 00:48:11 <doublec> nanotube, yeah I'll probably shut it down on the weekend no matter what
  31 2010-12-17 00:48:42 <nanotube> doublec: that said, slush's scheme seems to be less cpu intensive. because not so much work-checking goes on.
  32 2010-12-17 00:48:58 <slush_cz1> just sent first rewards
  33 2010-12-17 00:49:01 <doublec> nanotube, it seems to require a much faster net connection on the remote miners end though
  34 2010-12-17 00:49:28 <nanotube> dunno about that... depends on the chunkiness of the work units being sent.
  35 2010-12-17 00:49:52 <doublec> I like slush's scheme but would like to see the rewards sent as generated blocks (or at least, not manually worked out), the source of the server, and I hate having to register to participate.
  36 2010-12-17 00:49:53 <[Noodles]> slush_cz1 : confirmed: 8.92 arrived and woot! new block found ^.^
  37 2010-12-17 00:49:54 <nanotube> slush_cz1: --^ how about it? what's the net up/down usage for a remote miner?
  38 2010-12-17 00:50:19 <doublec> Although I understand why you have to register as using standard miners doesn't provide a way for them to provide a payment address
  39 2010-12-17 00:50:24 <nanotube> right
  40 2010-12-17 00:50:31 <slush_cz1> I'm working also on VPS. But from first calculating I can handle > 5 ghash with current code. I believe it makes >10 after some rework
  41 2010-12-17 00:50:36 <noagendamarket> slush whats the link for your miner?
  42 2010-12-17 00:50:45 <nanotube> but i'd like to see the source too. :)
  43 2010-12-17 00:50:50 <nanotube> noagendamarket: see ,,pool
  44 2010-12-17 00:50:50 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
  45 2010-12-17 00:51:18 spm_Draget has joined
  46 2010-12-17 00:52:21 <spm_Draget> I did not yet really understand how exactly the value is generated, but I just stumbled over this project abotu 10 minutes ago. And I am _really_ excited about it. Looks like a really cool idea!
  47 2010-12-17 00:52:21 <Zarutian> gribble: do you have a Mac OS X version?
  48 2010-12-17 00:52:26 <tcatm> ;;bc,calc 102140000000
  49 2010-12-17 00:52:27 <gribble> Error: '0.515195696079' is not a valid integer.
  50 2010-12-17 00:52:36 <tcatm> :/
  51 2010-12-17 00:52:46 <tcatm> ,,bc,calc
  52 2010-12-17 00:52:46 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
  53 2010-12-17 00:52:47 <slush_cz1> doublec: Yes, it is because using standard getwork api AND i like "send treshold" feature. Sending small rewards directly to users is awful
  54 2010-12-17 00:52:51 <nanotube> Zarutian: osx version of what?
  55 2010-12-17 00:53:00 <genjix> spm_Draget: people make up value
  56 2010-12-17 00:53:04 <genjix> by speculating.
  57 2010-12-17 00:53:22 <slush_cz1> " nanotube: slush_cz1: --^ how about it? what's the net up/down usage for a remote miner?" What do you mean?
  58 2010-12-17 00:53:32 genjix has left ()
  59 2010-12-17 00:53:40 <nanotube> slush_cz1: i mean, bandwidth requirement to run a remote miner?
  60 2010-12-17 00:53:43 <Zarutian> nanotube: of the mining pool miners
  61 2010-12-17 00:53:53 <spm_Draget> I can imagien that keeping the system stable and safe is quite some task, but I am looking forward digging into it and joining the fun =) Maybe get some gentoo package up
  62 2010-12-17 00:54:01 <nanotube> Zarutian: there are sources... dunno about binaries. go to that site and clicky the links
  63 2010-12-17 00:54:06 <slush_cz1> nanotube: it is ~600 bytes per server request. Depends on miner and card speed, how much it will takes in final
  64 2010-12-17 00:54:27 <nanotube> slush_cz1: how many hashes used for one server request?
  65 2010-12-17 00:54:40 <slush_cz1> nanotube: I'm working now on miner proxy - local application (script) on your computer which will prefetch work from server and serve to miner locally
  66 2010-12-17 00:55:13 <slush_cz1> It saves roundtrips (approx 10x less) and latencies, because miner will ask locally
  67 2010-12-17 00:55:20 <tcatm> nanotube: is there a command for total network hashrate?
  68 2010-12-17 00:55:37 <slush_cz1> I already implemented 'getworks' which can serve many jobs at once
  69 2010-12-17 00:55:52 <slush_cz1> but of course standard API is still available, no local software needed
  70 2010-12-17 00:56:06 <slush_cz1> But I think many GPU miners will install this
  71 2010-12-17 00:57:15 <slush_cz1> nanotube: I think it depends on miner, how large 'nonce' will count. I'm not sure (I didn't study this)
  72 2010-12-17 00:57:30 <slush_cz1> But it is in milion hashes per server attempt
  73 2010-12-17 00:57:42 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  74 2010-12-17 00:58:23 <tcatm> theymos: Is BBE's /q/estimate accurate shortly after difficulty changes?
  75 2010-12-17 00:58:36 blablaa has joined
  76 2010-12-17 01:00:13 <theymos> No. It might even do something strange -- I haven't had a chance to test it yet.
  77 2010-12-17 01:01:20 altamic has joined
  78 2010-12-17 01:02:50 <tcatm> Mkay, we'll see :)
  79 2010-12-17 01:03:18 <theymos> It only looks at blocks since last retarget, so after the retarget it only looks at a small amount of data.
  80 2010-12-17 01:08:00 <slush_cz1> hey, how can I list outgoing transactions from RPC??
  81 2010-12-17 01:09:13 <slush_cz1> ..using RPC... ?
  82 2010-12-17 01:10:03 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  83 2010-12-17 01:10:10 <kiba> when the bitcoin site goes down
  84 2010-12-17 01:10:18 <kiba> everyone think of a distributed solution
  85 2010-12-17 01:10:52 <noagendamarket> osiris serverless portal?
  86 2010-12-17 01:11:00 <kiba> resilency is in our gene!
  87 2010-12-17 01:11:07 <kiba> osiris is not open source?
  88 2010-12-17 01:11:17 <noagendamarket> I tried it but couldnt get past the language barrier
  89 2010-12-17 01:11:31 <noagendamarket> I thought it was open source
  90 2010-12-17 01:11:32 <kiba> English. The Langa Franca of the world
  91 2010-12-17 01:12:41 <thrashaholic> lingua
  92 2010-12-17 01:12:53 <noagendamarket> lol
  93 2010-12-17 01:13:16 <kiba> wee!
  94 2010-12-17 01:13:21 <kiba> my bitcoin are all the sudden worth more!
  95 2010-12-17 01:13:50 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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  97 2010-12-17 01:16:30 <xelister> around how many attempts there are per success block?  and is this constant?
  98 2010-12-17 01:16:47 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 100 2010-12-17 01:17:46 xelister has joined
 101 2010-12-17 01:20:07 <theymos> 5 new Real-Time Stats pages: http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgtxsize http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgblocksize http://blockexplorer.com/q/interval http://blockexplorer.com/q/eta http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgtxnumber . Everything in this set takes an optional additional parameter specifying how may blocks to look back. Example: http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgtxnumber/100000 . ETA is especially interesting: it makes an estimate for seconds until the ne
 102 2010-12-17 01:20:07 <theymos> xt retarget based on block interval for the last x blocks, rather than guessing based on the difficulty estimate.
 103 2010-12-17 01:20:21 <da2ce7> it is random.  It is like picking a red ball from a really really big bag where every 1/100Trillion balls is Red.
 104 2010-12-17 01:20:34 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
 105 2010-12-17 01:20:52 <da2ce7> and there are an almost umlimted number of balls.
 106 2010-12-17 01:21:00 <da2ce7> it will take many atempts.
 107 2010-12-17 01:22:21 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|!pool
 108 2010-12-17 01:22:21 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 39mins 17secs ago): 35 clients, 56857 khash/s, next block est. 1wk 3days 17hrs 5mins 16secs
 109 2010-12-17 01:26:04 <yebyen> so you're tellin me that boardwalk is still out there
 110 2010-12-17 01:27:13 Tester has joined
 111 2010-12-17 01:28:14 <yebyen> kiba: looks like you scared him away
 112 2010-12-17 01:28:28 <kiba> meh, even if he tried, he woudlnt' succeed
 113 2010-12-17 01:28:29 <yebyen> anyway .25 is not so great
 114 2010-12-17 01:29:03 <Tester> should have Tiny Miner working soon
 115 2010-12-17 01:29:18 <kiba> .25 is not so great?
 116 2010-12-17 01:29:19 <yebyen> i don't have that many cpu cycles to donate
 117 2010-12-17 01:29:22 <Tester> will be very simple and use file system for input output
 118 2010-12-17 01:29:35 <yebyen> i'm going to get one of these athlon x2 II 64
 119 2010-12-17 01:29:43 <yebyen> newegg deals
 120 2010-12-17 01:29:46 Dashkal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 121 2010-12-17 01:29:56 <yebyen> d-i-y $240 unit
 122 2010-12-17 01:30:02 <Tester> looks like the docs on JSON RPC and the wiki are not quite the same
 123 2010-12-17 01:30:19 Dashkal has joined
 124 2010-12-17 01:30:37 <theymos> JSON-RPC changes a lot. If you see inconsistencies, update the wiki page.
 125 2010-12-17 01:31:00 <Tester> yeah but the algo that does the target work has to be the same - right ?
 126 2010-12-17 01:31:16 <Tester> how would proof of work match for all ?
 127 2010-12-17 01:31:35 <yebyen> kiba: my last order went in at .2592
 128 2010-12-17 01:31:42 <yebyen> kiba: .25 didn't trip my sensor
 129 2010-12-17 01:31:48 <Tester> this is just the miner part
 130 2010-12-17 01:32:02 <Tester> zillions of hashes
 131 2010-12-17 01:32:38 <Tester> and people seem to be testing 4 different sha256 code bases
 132 2010-12-17 01:32:54 <yebyen> alright .25 is higher than i've been trading all month
 133 2010-12-17 01:33:00 <Tester> one has to assume they all produce the same result
 134 2010-12-17 01:33:25 <theymos> Tester: Bitcoin uses double-SHA-256. Does the wiki say something different?
 135 2010-12-17 01:33:55 <Tester> the wiki gives a very general overview of the block hash
 136 2010-12-17 01:34:15 <Tester> the JSON RPC gives the input and output
 137 2010-12-17 01:34:23 <Tester> neither really nail it down
 138 2010-12-17 01:34:40 <Tester> in the code only 8 bits are tested for zeroes
 139 2010-12-17 01:35:15 <Tester> and yes the code shows a double-sha-256
 140 2010-12-17 01:35:20 <theymos> The wiki is designed for easy reading. Most pages shouldn't contain enough detail for implementing stuff.
 141 2010-12-17 01:35:55 <Tester> that;'s fine but it may be good to show people exactly so everyone matches up
 142 2010-12-17 01:36:35 <Tester> but that stuff about the Merkel Root ? does not really show in the code
 143 2010-12-17 01:36:45 <Tester> something called midstate is there
 144 2010-12-17 01:37:27 <Tester> and the time of day is not there as I see it
 145 2010-12-17 01:37:42 <Tester> nonce is all that really gets cranked
 146 2010-12-17 01:38:05 <spm_Draget> The 'hashing to get bitcoins' is there to slowly fill the network with money, right?
 147 2010-12-17 01:38:27 <Tester> doing the Proof of Work is part of the Throttle yes
 148 2010-12-17 01:38:34 <Tester> and the Block Chain building
 149 2010-12-17 01:38:55 <theymos> Tester: Miners don't deal with time. Bitcoin handles time, and the miner requests a new work every few seconds.
 150 2010-12-17 01:39:05 <tcatm> added network info to bitcoincharts.com
 151 2010-12-17 01:39:46 <[Noodles]> nice, thanks ^.^
 152 2010-12-17 01:39:49 <Tester> Hmmm earlier someone said every minute new data was started
 153 2010-12-17 01:40:00 <Tester> but the data is small 128 bytes
 154 2010-12-17 01:40:19 <Tester> so not all transactions in it
 155 2010-12-17 01:41:54 <Tester> but a miner could work and work with a partial correct algo and be beaten by others with different algo
 156 2010-12-17 01:42:58 <theymos> Transactions are in the block "body". Miners only hash the header.
 157 2010-12-17 01:43:46 <Tester> miners hash various pieces with different names not sure if one would really call that the header
 158 2010-12-17 01:44:05 <Tester> never fear it will be documented precisely
 159 2010-12-17 01:44:17 <Tester> that is really important for a fair system
 160 2010-12-17 01:44:22 <theymos> Those fields are referred to as a header in the Bitcoin source.
 161 2010-12-17 01:44:45 <Tester> midstate ? hash1 ?
 162 2010-12-17 01:45:01 <theymos> Those are not hashed. Only "data" -- the block header -- is hashed.
 163 2010-12-17 01:45:27 <theymos> Those fields do have a purpose, of course. I'm not sure what that purpose is. Some optimization.
 164 2010-12-17 01:45:51 <Tester> JSON RPC supplies data midstate hash1 target
 165 2010-12-17 01:46:23 <Tester> miner then cranks away with nonce dropped into some weird offset
 166 2010-12-17 01:46:47 <Tester> miner then only looks for 8 bits of zeroes
 167 2010-12-17 01:47:47 <Tester> so it is almost like 256 coin flips watching for 8 adjacent heads
 168 2010-12-17 01:49:01 <Tester> and the nonce is dancing its way around the data somewhat tied to the ByteOrder of the machine
 169 2010-12-17 01:49:32 <Tester> and nonce is incremented each hash
 170 2010-12-17 01:50:04 <theymos> It'd probably be appropriate to just ask for new work whenever nonce overflows.
 171 2010-12-17 01:50:40 <Tester> the wiki implies that is a feature the nonce walks over other fields and the code seems to show that
 172 2010-12-17 01:50:44 <tcatm> Yep, or update nTime.
 173 2010-12-17 01:51:03 <Tester> but that is very compiler dependent
 174 2010-12-17 01:51:57 <Tester> pointing nonce in the middle of data as a *uint or something could mean a lot of things
 175 2010-12-17 01:52:37 <Tester> but apparently this is likely x86 code
 176 2010-12-17 01:53:03 <Tester> and at the end of the day the block is sent for proof
 177 2010-12-17 01:53:08 <tcatm> You could always access it through the struct.
 178 2010-12-17 01:53:26 <Tester> yes as long as structs align as you think
 179 2010-12-17 01:53:44 <Tester> using char arrays has a lot of control as they do
 180 2010-12-17 01:54:15 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
 181 2010-12-17 01:54:23 darrob has joined
 182 2010-12-17 01:54:38 <Tester> and as long as everyone is cranking for the same goal it works
 183 2010-12-17 01:55:46 <Tester> and those 8 key bits that need to roll 0s are key
 184 2010-12-17 01:56:51 <tcatm> They're actually a hack to avoid costly checking of the whole hash.
 185 2010-12-17 01:57:07 <Tester> sure
 186 2010-12-17 01:57:19 <Tester> but one may be able to work backwards
 187 2010-12-17 01:57:33 elryry has joined
 188 2010-12-17 01:57:34 <tcatm> Are you trying to reverse the hash?
 189 2010-12-17 01:57:39 <Tester> run the hash in reverse
 190 2010-12-17 01:57:56 <tcatm> I did that. Upto four rounds. Not worth it :)
 191 2010-12-17 01:58:19 <Tester> no not trying to run it in reverse just make sure everyone is doing the same proof of work
 192 2010-12-17 01:58:30 <tcatm> ?
 193 2010-12-17 01:59:11 <Tester> well the wiki says one thing and the JSON RPC implies other processing and the code is the real reveal
 194 2010-12-17 02:00:15 <Tester> if someone says take these 10 coins and flip them and the code only flips 2 coins that matters
 195 2010-12-17 02:00:38 <tcatm> Which wiki page are you referring to?
 196 2010-12-17 02:00:42 <Tester> why waste time on the other 8 coins
 197 2010-12-17 02:01:06 <Tester> wiki for bitcoin on block hashing
 198 2010-12-17 02:01:30 <yebyen> right now i have to flip some systemd coins
 199 2010-12-17 02:01:37 <yebyen> cave resolve -x systemd is not happenin
 200 2010-12-17 02:01:45 <yebyen> does anyone know paludis
 201 2010-12-17 02:03:03 <Tester> also there is a risk someone puts code out that rarely wins coins
 202 2010-12-17 02:03:18 <Tester> maybe the code is a little more strict
 203 2010-12-17 02:03:44 <tcatm> We already had at least one bug in the miner that caused it to produce less winning hashes than it should.
 204 2010-12-17 02:03:55 <Tester> and someone says "I never win any coins" - well surprise you are running the code that rarely wins
 205 2010-12-17 02:04:07 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 206 2010-12-17 02:06:05 <Tester> bug in the miner is OK if there is only ONE miner
 207 2010-12-17 02:06:14 <Tester> one miner code base
 208 2010-12-17 02:07:07 <tcatm> It only affected some CPUs under certain conditions.
 209 2010-12-17 02:07:12 <Tester> one could also have a log and when a winning block goes up they could compare back and see if their miner hit any and missed it
 210 2010-12-17 02:07:32 <Tester> this is like pro BINGO players
 211 2010-12-17 02:07:51 <Tester> they want to audit all the numbers called
 212 2010-12-17 02:08:27 <Tester> partly to see if they are sleeping
 213 2010-12-17 02:09:26 <kiba> so, we're going to have the first bitcoin site sale soon
 214 2010-12-17 02:09:40 <Tester> site sale ?
 215 2010-12-17 02:09:59 <tcatm> pastecoin? :)
 216 2010-12-17 02:10:15 * lolcat bids 160 bitcoins for mtgox.com
 217 2010-12-17 02:10:21 <slush_cz1> :-D
 218 2010-12-17 02:10:26 <Tester> there is a very nice article with some really cool links to people using it for trade
 219 2010-12-17 02:11:58 cdecker has quit (Quit: Bye)
 220 2010-12-17 02:14:29 <Tester> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2010/10/10/a-short-introduction-to-bitcoin.html
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 224 2010-12-17 02:19:27 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|!pool
 225 2010-12-17 02:19:27 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 1hr 36mins 22secs ago): 38 clients, 68650 khash/s, next block est. 1wk 1day 20hrs 55mins 27secs
 226 2010-12-17 02:19:51 <RG> xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|!pool
 227 2010-12-17 02:19:52 <RichardG> Could not obtain pooled miner status - log empty? Last log line: Connected to 173.255.205.10:8335
 228 2010-12-17 02:20:37 RG has quit (xchat!~tingle@unaffiliated/richardg|Quit: ebe42a225e8593e448d9c5457381aaf7)
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 238 2010-12-17 03:04:41 <doublec> ,,pool
 239 2010-12-17 03:04:41 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
 240 2010-12-17 03:08:46 Grantt has joined
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 242 2010-12-17 03:22:11 <appamatto> Howdy
 243 2010-12-17 03:22:21 <appamatto> Bitcoin is listen on the router console for i2p now
 244 2010-12-17 03:22:21 <doublec> howdy appamatto
 245 2010-12-17 03:22:36 <appamatto> Saying that it accepts bitcoin donations
 246 2010-12-17 03:22:46 <doublec> yep
 247 2010-12-17 03:22:46 <appamatto> hey doublec
 248 2010-12-17 03:23:31 <yebyen> i wonder if my non-profit is going to give me shit for soliciting bitcoin donations on their website
 249 2010-12-17 03:23:41 <yebyen> non-profit web presence provider
 250 2010-12-17 03:23:43 <appamatto> Anything happen in #pokerface?
 251 2010-12-17 03:23:50 <yebyen> http://martyfunkhouser.csh.rit.edu/~yebyen/
 252 2010-12-17 03:24:15 <noagendamarket> yebyen why would they?
 253 2010-12-17 03:25:04 <yebyen> well i can think of reasons why they wouldn't
 254 2010-12-17 03:25:19 <yebyen> but primarily because it should be funneled through someone at RIT
 255 2010-12-17 03:25:33 <doublec> appamatto, I missed the #pokerface stuff, I don't know how it went
 256 2010-12-17 03:25:38 <yebyen> it's not a real currency, they'll say, so we don't care
 257 2010-12-17 03:25:50 <yebyen> but if it was USD/paypal, it would land me in a heap of trouble
 258 2010-12-17 03:26:00 <noagendamarket> I suppose
 259 2010-12-17 03:26:11 <noagendamarket> just say its virtual tokens lol
 260 2010-12-17 03:26:14 <yebyen> i got in big trouble almost for hosting a political website
 261 2010-12-17 03:26:26 <noagendamarket> Thats what I said to my accountant anyway
 262 2010-12-17 03:26:30 <noagendamarket> :)
 263 2010-12-17 03:26:38 <yebyen> noagendamarket: they will respect the virtual tokens, it's how they run their network drink machine around RIT's pepsi contract
 264 2010-12-17 03:26:46 <yebyen> you buy drink credits
 265 2010-12-17 03:26:52 <yebyen> then you flash your ibutton and a soda comes out
 266 2010-12-17 03:26:56 <yebyen> or you telnet in, or whatever
 267 2010-12-17 03:27:20 <noagendamarket> you could hack in  and accept bitcoins :)
 268 2010-12-17 03:27:24 <yebyen> you just give cash to a drink admin, once he's got it, he registers your credits
 269 2010-12-17 03:27:28 <bencoder> kiba: 10 hours late, but i'm here now
 270 2010-12-17 03:27:49 <yebyen> there is a touchscreen and everything
 271 2010-12-17 03:27:54 <yebyen> it's cool as hell
 272 2010-12-17 03:28:19 <noagendamarket> does it order a refill when its empty?
 273 2010-12-17 03:28:36 grondilu has joined
 274 2010-12-17 03:28:45 <yebyen> that's the admin's job
 275 2010-12-17 03:28:49 <yebyen> keep a watch on the tally
 276 2010-12-17 03:28:51 <grondilu> How can I check the validity of a bitcoin address ?
 277 2010-12-17 03:28:56 <yebyen> and refill the machine when the jolt is running low
 278 2010-12-17 03:30:02 <grondilu> (without python or bitcoind)
 279 2010-12-17 03:30:04 <noagendamarket> bitcoin block explorer grondilu?
 280 2010-12-17 03:30:15 <grondilu> hum
 281 2010-12-17 03:30:18 <yebyen> does anyone know exherbo distro?
 282 2010-12-17 03:31:08 <grondilu> The block explorer will validate a bitcoin address even if it is not in the block chain ?
 283 2010-12-17 03:31:43 <kiba> bencoder: it does provide 0/confirmation functionality, right?
 284 2010-12-17 03:32:11 <kiba> bencoder: so what you have planned next for your download site?
 285 2010-12-17 03:34:17 <bencoder> kiba: since you're my only client who has an interest at the moment, what do you recommend I change/implement?
 286 2010-12-17 03:34:39 <kiba> the...
 287 2010-12-17 03:34:44 <kiba> commision fee?
 288 2010-12-17 03:35:16 <bencoder> is that all that matters?
 289 2010-12-17 03:35:31 <kiba> I would like automatic forwarding of my balance
 290 2010-12-17 03:35:35 <kiba> like
 291 2010-12-17 03:35:38 <kiba> every week or so
 292 2010-12-17 03:35:45 <bencoder> ok
 293 2010-12-17 03:36:12 <bencoder> i'll see if i have time to work on it this weekend
 294 2010-12-17 03:36:26 <doublec> bencoder, what is your download site?
 295 2010-12-17 03:36:55 <bencoder> www.bitcoinservice.co.uk not the best domain i know ><
 296 2010-12-17 03:39:25 <kiba> bencoder: there's an opportunity to beat pastecoin
 297 2010-12-17 03:40:05 <noagendamarket> yes there is
 298 2010-12-17 03:40:09 <kiba> if you work with enoxice to ramp up your API and coordinate a way so that enoxicde implement his ransom model idea..that might be an excellent oportunity
 299 2010-12-17 03:40:26 <kiba> btcTune
 300 2010-12-17 03:41:56 <noagendamarket> Id be wary of using anything related to "itunes"
 301 2010-12-17 03:42:20 <noagendamarket> apple are lawyer friendly to the max
 302 2010-12-17 03:44:55 <kiba> bitcoin is an entrepeneural community
 303 2010-12-17 03:45:42 <noagendamarket> yes I know....
 304 2010-12-17 03:46:13 <noagendamarket> Just saying apple has 40 billion dollars lol
 305 2010-12-17 03:46:23 <xelister> iTunes are for fags
 306 2010-12-17 03:46:29 <noagendamarket> yes it is
 307 2010-12-17 03:46:41 <xelister> who else likes to be fucked in the ass by totally anally stronger 'partner'
 308 2010-12-17 03:46:46 <noagendamarket> It gives me the shits
 309 2010-12-17 03:48:07 <noagendamarket> xelister your question makes no sense
 310 2010-12-17 03:48:17 <noagendamarket> lol
 311 2010-12-17 03:49:11 <Dr_Pangloss> ;;bc,calc 158500
 312 2010-12-17 03:49:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 158500 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds
 313 2010-12-17 03:53:44 <xelister> anyone wants 1 BTC to draw sketch of  1) cock  2) donkey  ?  Need it as part of presentation about installing ati drivers to start miner
 314 2010-12-17 03:54:20 <xelister> >_>
 315 2010-12-17 03:56:57 <noagendamarket> are you going to put the cock in your ass?
 316 2010-12-17 03:57:01 <lolcat> xelister: You want an image of a cock?
 317 2010-12-17 03:57:04 <noagendamarket> *hides
 318 2010-12-17 04:08:42 <OneFixt> cock = rooster, donkey = ass?
 319 2010-12-17 04:09:16 <noagendamarket> haha yeah
 320 2010-12-17 04:09:26 <OneFixt> You could get 4 different pictures with that request!
 321 2010-12-17 04:10:14 <Sapians> two of them NSFW :P
 322 2010-12-17 04:10:37 <OneFixt> 3 actually =)
 323 2010-12-17 04:10:43 <OneFixt> Only one has a rooster and a donkey.
 324 2010-12-17 04:19:55 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 325 2010-12-17 04:23:50 ColonelPanic2 has joined
 326 2010-12-17 04:23:57 morphbot has joined
 327 2010-12-17 04:23:59 morphbot has left ()
 328 2010-12-17 04:26:13 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 329 2010-12-17 04:30:26 <Sapians> so is there a "definitive" list of sites that use BTC?
 330 2010-12-17 04:31:22 Tester has joined
 331 2010-12-17 04:32:28 <nanotube> tcatm: no... but i suppose it would be trivial to implement, based on a calculation from current estimated difficulty?
 332 2010-12-17 04:32:39 <nanotube> Sapians: bitcoin.org/trade
 333 2010-12-17 04:33:14 <noagendamarket> I just added one more site  http://lmptfy.com
 334 2010-12-17 04:35:06 Tester has quit (Client Quit)
 335 2010-12-17 04:35:26 <nanotube> noagendamarket: heh guess that goes under 'donation accepting' section :)
 336 2010-12-17 04:35:46 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|bahaha
 337 2010-12-17 04:35:50 <noagendamarket> nanotube yeah lol
 338 2010-12-17 04:35:54 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|there's already a porn site that accepts bitcoins!
 339 2010-12-17 04:36:02 <nanotube> more than one, even, nameless| :)
 340 2010-12-17 04:36:04 <noagendamarket> yes there are two of them
 341 2010-12-17 04:36:09 <noagendamarket> or 3
 342 2010-12-17 04:36:09 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|noagendamarket: I see that!
 343 2010-12-17 04:36:29 <noagendamarket> madhatter hides his porn under his hat?
 344 2010-12-17 04:36:33 <noagendamarket> lol
 345 2010-12-17 04:38:34 <EvanR> i think thats great
 346 2010-12-17 04:38:55 <EvanR> porn must be a staple fixture of any anarchy
 347 2010-12-17 04:39:26 <grondilu> "staple fixture" ?
 348 2010-12-17 04:39:43 <EvanR> im using staple as an adjective
 349 2010-12-17 04:39:46 * grondilu thought he understood english well
 350 2010-12-17 04:39:51 <EvanR> polymorphic parts of speech
 351 2010-12-17 04:42:37 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 352 2010-12-17 04:48:11 <appamatto> How's it going EvanR?
 353 2010-12-17 04:49:14 <EvanR> i just bought 20 coins for 5USD and 47 cents via mastercard at bitcoingateway
 354 2010-12-17 04:49:38 <Cusipzzz> EvanR cannot wait to hit the roulette table!
 355 2010-12-17 04:49:55 <appamatto> EvanR .4 a coin?
 356 2010-12-17 04:50:12 <EvanR> 5.47USD
 357 2010-12-17 04:50:13 <doublec> he decided against my offer of 15 coins for $6
 358 2010-12-17 04:50:21 <appamatto> oh
 359 2010-12-17 04:50:23 <nanotube> Cusipzzz: any connection with CUSIP ?
 360 2010-12-17 04:50:29 <nanotube> (just out of curiosity)
 361 2010-12-17 04:50:37 <Cusipzzz> yes, a connection..
 362 2010-12-17 04:50:47 <doublec> fees rack up the price per coin for small transactions a lot
 363 2010-12-17 04:50:51 <nanotube> hehe, what kind of connection?
 364 2010-12-17 04:51:00 <EvanR> yes
 365 2010-12-17 04:51:05 <Cusipzzz> i work in the industry, you?
 366 2010-12-17 04:51:21 <nanotube> i'm a student in the industry. :)
 367 2010-12-17 04:52:01 <Cusipzzz> good luck..sadly the golden age is over...but who knows, still may be some 'coins' when you get here!
 368 2010-12-17 04:52:17 <EvanR> golden age?
 369 2010-12-17 04:52:38 <Cusipzzz> golden age of investment banking
 370 2010-12-17 04:52:54 <nanotube> heh
 371 2010-12-17 04:53:02 <appamatto> What is "the industry"?
 372 2010-12-17 04:53:19 <Cusipzzz> investment banking/brokerage/prop trading
 373 2010-12-17 04:53:32 <da2ce7> the golden age of the porn industry :P
 374 2010-12-17 04:54:13 <nanotube> appamatto: basically the finance industry. see ,,(sl cusip)
 375 2010-12-17 04:54:14 <gribble> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUSIP | The acronym CUSIP historically refers to the Committee on Uniform Security Identification Procedures, which was founded in 1964, during the paper crunch in ...
 376 2010-12-17 04:54:49 <appamatto> Oh I see
 377 2010-12-17 04:55:48 <Cusipzzz> basically it is like a UPC code for traded securities
 378 2010-12-17 04:55:54 <Cusipzzz> unique identifier.
 379 2010-12-17 04:56:11 <EvanR> is it a good idea for a shop to accept bitcoins in addition to credit cards
 380 2010-12-17 04:56:21 <EvanR> i mean, will it save money
 381 2010-12-17 04:56:31 <nanotube> EvanR: we all think so. :) lower fees than credit cards.
 382 2010-12-17 04:56:35 <nanotube> at the very least
 383 2010-12-17 04:56:47 <nanotube> also, lack of chargeback capacity (which the merchant usually has to eat)
 384 2010-12-17 04:56:47 <EvanR> zero fees if you dont exchange, right?
 385 2010-12-17 04:57:07 <Cusipzzz> so rather than saying, 'i want to trade the IBM jun 2018 7.25% bond with call feature...you say, ; i want CUSIP 514TY2819, and everyone on wall street knows exactly what bond you are talking about..or equity, or option
 386 2010-12-17 04:57:18 <nanotube> EvanR: well, selling btc is usually an easier proposition than buying. since you don't have to convince your counterparty to take on any risk
 387 2010-12-17 04:57:29 <nanotube> since again, btc is non-chargebackable
 388 2010-12-17 04:58:37 <EvanR> i dont understand
 389 2010-12-17 04:58:50 <EvanR> dont you have to take risk on the buyer
 390 2010-12-17 04:58:55 <EvanR> when exchanging
 391 2010-12-17 04:59:36 <nanotube> EvanR: well, you as the seller take the risk... but if you deal with known people in the community, there's little risk.
 392 2010-12-17 04:59:53 <grondilu> 10 blocks to go before the end of the eBay share auction.  http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2287.40
 393 2010-12-17 05:00:59 <EvanR> nanotube: ok, so in todays world you could start accept bitcoins, and collect them until you get to like 1000, then exchange?
 394 2010-12-17 05:01:05 <EvanR> however long that takes
 395 2010-12-17 05:01:43 <nanotube> yes
 396 2010-12-17 05:01:55 <EvanR> or is it unlikely someones going to want to buy that many
 397 2010-12-17 05:01:55 <EvanR> i guess theres mtgox and LR
 398 2010-12-17 05:02:30 <EvanR> at least a three step process to get paid ;)
 399 2010-12-17 05:03:11 <nanotube> EvanR: you can withdraw from mtgox via ach, if you have a large enough amount.
 400 2010-12-17 05:03:26 <nanotube> EvanR: so it's actually much easier to go btc -> mtgox -> usd, than the other way
 401 2010-12-17 05:03:27 <EvanR> ah good
 402 2010-12-17 05:04:49 <EvanR> does it make sense for there to be two or more USD bitcoin markets like mtgox?
 403 2010-12-17 05:05:02 <nanotube> yes... the more markets the merrier.
 404 2010-12-17 05:05:03 <EvanR> i guess they could different in transfer and reporting services
 405 2010-12-17 05:05:09 <EvanR> differ
 406 2010-12-17 05:05:21 <EvanR> but the prices will generally be equal
 407 2010-12-17 05:05:46 maximi89 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 408 2010-12-17 05:05:56 <nanotube> well, they should be within tx costs of arbitrage.
 409 2010-12-17 05:06:31 <EvanR> how much does a trade cost on mtgox
 410 2010-12-17 05:06:52 <kiba> 8 more posts until 30,000 posts on the forum!
 411 2010-12-17 05:06:53 <kiba> wee!
 412 2010-12-17 05:07:18 <ArtForz> 0.65%
 413 2010-12-17 05:08:22 <EvanR> in all that trading, the system is 'throwing away' sub cent transactions?
 414 2010-12-17 05:08:38 <EvanR> 0.65% is going to cause a lot of sig figs
 415 2010-12-17 05:08:58 <ArtForz> why?
 416 2010-12-17 05:09:08 <ArtForz> mtgox trades re done internally
 417 2010-12-17 05:09:25 <EvanR> oh, so not through bitcoin
 418 2010-12-17 05:09:29 <EvanR> right, its usd
 419 2010-12-17 05:09:29 <nanotube> i don't think any 'throwing away' of subcents happens... though the site doesn't display all 8.
 420 2010-12-17 05:09:31 <ArtForz> and in/out is limited to 0.01
 421 2010-12-17 05:09:46 <ArtForz> yep, it displays rounded amounts, but internally keeps more precision
 422 2010-12-17 05:10:08 <EvanR> mtgox makes money/
 423 2010-12-17 05:10:16 <kiba> yes
 424 2010-12-17 05:10:19 <nanotube> presumably.
 425 2010-12-17 05:10:26 <ArtForz> I'd hope so
 426 2010-12-17 05:10:27 <kiba> a little money probably
 427 2010-12-17 05:10:37 <nanotube> EvanR: it takes 0.65% off each side of the tx, so 1.3% times the volume is mtgox's take
 428 2010-12-17 05:10:44 <ArtForz> erm... no
 429 2010-12-17 05:10:49 <kiba> mtgox have incentive to build ancillary service to increase the amount of volume
 430 2010-12-17 05:10:57 <ArtForz> afaict only takes 0.65% once
 431 2010-12-17 05:11:12 <nanotube> ArtForz: so it takes 0.325 from each side, then?
 432 2010-12-17 05:11:26 <ArtForz> I'm not 100% sure
 433 2010-12-17 05:11:35 <nanotube> hm, well let me look at my account histyr.
 434 2010-12-17 05:11:37 <nanotube> history
 435 2010-12-17 05:11:44 <ArtForz> I think it charges the seller
 436 2010-12-17 05:11:56 <nanotube> seller of bitcoins? or of usd?
 437 2010-12-17 05:12:10 <midnightmagic> ? i only ever saw a charge when transferring LR out to an exchanger..?
 438 2010-12-17 05:12:13 <ArtForz> seller of bitcoins
 439 2010-12-17 05:12:30 <midnightmagic> uh..  well what are you using to sell your BTC art?
 440 2010-12-17 05:12:30 <nanotube> ArtForz: mm well, let me see. i have both buy and sells in my history.
 441 2010-12-17 05:13:27 <nanotube> ArtForz: ok, so in my recent buy of 101 bitcoins, i ended up with 100.34 bitcoins. so that's definitely a full 0.65% off my side as a buyer.
 442 2010-12-17 05:13:38 <ArtForz> then it charges both sides
 443 2010-12-17 05:13:58 <ArtForz> sold 720 @ 0.2455, got credited 720 @ 0.2439
 444 2010-12-17 05:13:59 <nanotube> so... 1.3% off volume is net take
 445 2010-12-17 05:14:10 <nanotube> just as i suspected.
 446 2010-12-17 05:14:16 <ArtForz> yup
 447 2010-12-17 05:14:23 <nanotube> ;;bc,mtgox
 448 2010-12-17 05:14:23 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.255,"low":0.2222,"vol":14291,"buy":0.241,"sell":0.249,"last":0.249}}
 449 2010-12-17 05:14:24 <ArtForz> except imo the math is off
 450 2010-12-17 05:14:53 <midnightmagic> LOL, I sold for .246 but it sold for 0.2444, which is a 0.63% on my sell.
 451 2010-12-17 05:15:02 <midnightmagic> err..  0.65%
 452 2010-12-17 05:15:07 <ArtForz> I'd have to check, but I think he's doing / 1.0065 instead of *0.9935
 453 2010-12-17 05:15:09 <nanotube> ArtForz: nope... that's exatly 0.65% for you
 454 2010-12-17 05:15:18 <nanotube> ah... maybe
 455 2010-12-17 05:15:31 <midnightmagic> well i was wondering how that guy made any money..
 456 2010-12-17 05:15:39 <EvanR> all this decimal math is very weird to me
 457 2010-12-17 05:15:43 <midnightmagic> funny it wasn't clear he was doing that when i went in. :)
 458 2010-12-17 05:15:46 <EvanR> i dont get it ;)
 459 2010-12-17 05:16:01 <ArtForz> and then theres the 1% for LR withdrawals
 460 2010-12-17 05:16:05 <nanotube> midnightmagic: it's a fairly recent addition... there was a time when there was no trading fee
 461 2010-12-17 05:16:11 <midnightmagic> that part was very clear in the trade out..
 462 2010-12-17 05:16:49 <doublec> pity he didn't have the fee when the volume was 200,000
 463 2010-12-17 05:17:02 <midnightmagic> pity for whom? :-)
 464 2010-12-17 05:17:04 <noagendamarket> Mt Gox had to cover $5000 wehn  paypal shafted him
 465 2010-12-17 05:17:19 <EvanR> what did paypal do now?
 466 2010-12-17 05:17:29 <nanotube> doublec: this doesn't happen in a vacuum - volume dropped when fee was introduced. :)
 467 2010-12-17 05:17:49 <noagendamarket> Evan they cancelled mt gox account
 468 2010-12-17 05:17:55 <doublec> nanotube, volume dropped when it became difficult to get money in and out
 469 2010-12-17 05:17:58 <nanotube> EvanR: they froze mtgox account with something like 5-7 k usd in it.
 470 2010-12-17 05:17:59 <noagendamarket> because of chargebacks
 471 2010-12-17 05:18:06 <midnightmagic> geez..
 472 2010-12-17 05:18:17 <nanotube> doublec: well, that too. but it dropped even more, iirc, when fee was introduced.
 473 2010-12-17 05:18:18 <EvanR> nanotube: why?
 474 2010-12-17 05:18:20 <noagendamarket> hance paypal is not well regarded here
 475 2010-12-17 05:18:33 <noagendamarket> bitcoin is competition
 476 2010-12-17 05:18:36 <midnightmagic> tragedy of the commons?
 477 2010-12-17 05:18:38 <nanotube> EvanR: he got hit with paypal scammers, had a bunch of chargebacks...
 478 2010-12-17 05:18:40 <ColonelPanic2> paypal is evil, man
 479 2010-12-17 05:18:59 <EvanR> is it the only thing accepted on ebay?
 480 2010-12-17 05:19:08 <ColonelPanic2> thieves, simply put
 481 2010-12-17 05:19:19 <ColonelPanic2> sometimes you can organize a trade on the side with a seller
 482 2010-12-17 05:19:25 <ColonelPanic2> if they dont accept something other than paypal
 483 2010-12-17 05:19:41 <ColonelPanic2> but using paypal is not worth it
 484 2010-12-17 05:19:42 <noagendamarket> #bitcoin-otc
 485 2010-12-17 05:19:56 <ColonelPanic2> yeah
 486 2010-12-17 05:20:03 <nanotube> EvanR: i know you can at least do cash/check/moneyorder, in addition to paypal. and probably can specify other payment options within auction.
 487 2010-12-17 05:20:05 <ColonelPanic2> tru dat
 488 2010-12-17 05:20:10 <nanotube> EvanR: so you could sell for bitcoins. even.
 489 2010-12-17 05:20:21 <EvanR> well the auction is in terms of usd
 490 2010-12-17 05:20:29 ColonelPanic2 is now known as ColonelPanic1
 491 2010-12-17 05:20:32 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 492 2010-12-17 05:20:41 <noagendamarket> Evan R there are other payment options but bitcoin is outside the tos
 493 2010-12-17 05:20:50 <noagendamarket> even canadian tire money
 494 2010-12-17 05:20:51 <EvanR> so the seller is probably not going to want to deal with bitcoins due to the conversion
 495 2010-12-17 05:20:53 <noagendamarket> lol
 496 2010-12-17 05:22:20 <nanotube> EvanR: unless you're the seller, and you want bitcoins. :)
 497 2010-12-17 05:24:00 <EvanR> oh my card was denied for some reason
 498 2010-12-17 05:24:00 <EvanR> nice
 499 2010-12-17 05:24:00 <EvanR> by bank would not tell him my phone number
 500 2010-12-17 05:24:00 <EvanR> my bank
 501 2010-12-17 05:24:00 <EvanR> i knew that sounded weird
 502 2010-12-17 05:24:11 <ArtForz> well, total mtgox volume last 30 days was 420kBTC ... 1.3% of that 5460BTC so about $1100
 503 2010-12-17 05:24:54 <EvanR> im going to complain about this in otc
 504 2010-12-17 05:26:06 <noagendamarket> Evan he is just making sure he doesnt get ripped off
 505 2010-12-17 05:26:10 newsham has joined
 506 2010-12-17 05:26:15 <newsham> hi.  how is difficulty computed and what does it mean exactly?
 507 2010-12-17 05:26:17 <noagendamarket> like the last guy that accepted credit cards
 508 2010-12-17 05:26:19 <newsham> is it a measure of how much competition there is for mining?
 509 2010-12-17 05:26:52 <ColonelPanic1> hey bro
 510 2010-12-17 05:27:33 <ArtForz> difficulty is pretty much a measure of average total hashrate over the previous 2016-block difficulty interval
 511 2010-12-17 05:28:02 <newsham> in what unit?  khash/sec?
 512 2010-12-17 05:28:24 <ArtForz> difficulty 1 = avg of 1 in 2**32 hashes makes a valid block
 513 2010-12-17 05:28:50 <ArtForz> difficulty is adjusted so average time per block is 600 seconds
 514 2010-12-17 05:29:30 <EvanR> noagendamarket: i know
 515 2010-12-17 05:29:44 <ArtForz> current difficulty 12252.0, so we averaged 12252 * 2**32 / 600 hashes/sec over the prev interval
 516 2010-12-17 05:29:52 <ArtForz> comes out to about 87700M
 517 2010-12-17 05:30:02 <midnightmagic> that's *IT*?!
 518 2010-12-17 05:30:06 <midnightmagic> wtf?!
 519 2010-12-17 05:30:38 <ArtForz> well, it sets how hard it is to find blocks
 520 2010-12-17 05:30:55 <ArtForz> so block rate stays more-or-less constant even with changing total hashing power
 521 2010-12-17 05:31:21 <midnightmagic> yeah, but 87700M is only 87Gh, or 88 if you're a chemist.
 522 2010-12-17 05:31:27 <ArtForz> yep
 523 2010-12-17 05:32:42 <midnightmagic> god damn..
 524 2010-12-17 05:32:47 <newsham> so difficulty of 200 means roughly 2x as much cpu power was active over the last period as a difficulty of 100?
 525 2010-12-17 05:32:58 <ArtForz> yep
 526 2010-12-17 05:33:04 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
 527 2010-12-17 05:33:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 97994 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 789 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 16 hours, 36 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14307.18260313
 528 2010-12-17 05:33:25 <nanotube> based on the estimate, we're at 102ghps
 529 2010-12-17 05:33:40 <ArtForz> looks about right
 530 2010-12-17 05:33:48 <nanotube> actualy higher, since estimate is average, and hps is probably climbing...
 531 2010-12-17 05:33:59 <ArtForz> not really much
 532 2010-12-17 05:34:21 <midnightmagic> is there a graph of difficulty somewhere? or a history of it recorded somewhere?
 533 2010-12-17 05:34:38 <newsham> is difficulty stored in the block?
 534 2010-12-17 05:34:45 Cusipzzz has quit ()
 535 2010-12-17 05:35:05 <ArtForz> avg GHps for current diff over 72 block intervals so far was 89 84 94 125 106 106 100 87 87 110 109 107 104 136 104 109 111
 536 2010-12-17 05:35:28 <midnightmagic> so awesome..
 537 2010-12-17 05:35:45 <nanotube> nice
 538 2010-12-17 05:36:19 <newsham> how does difficulty translate to proof-of-work task (ie. number of zeros in hash, or whatever)?
 539 2010-12-17 05:36:26 <ArtForz> and towards the end of 8078 we already had several 72-block intervals  >110Ghps
 540 2010-12-17 05:36:48 <midnightmagic> i should start recording that data now shouldn't I..
 541 2010-12-17 05:37:09 <newsham> midnight: if its stored in the block, then shouldnt you already have a record of it? :)
 542 2010-12-17 05:37:16 <newsham> (in the block chain)
 543 2010-12-17 05:37:28 <midnightmagic> only if I can get at it semi-easily.
 544 2010-12-17 05:37:32 <ArtForz> iirc difficulty = (2**224 - 1) / target
 545 2010-12-17 05:37:38 Granttt has joined
 546 2010-12-17 05:37:39 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
 547 2010-12-17 05:37:39 Granttt has joined
 548 2010-12-17 05:37:55 <ArtForz> and hash <= target is a winner
 549 2010-12-17 05:38:19 <newsham> ahh, ok.
 550 2010-12-17 05:38:20 <ArtForz> so average # hashes to find a block is difficulty * 2**32
 551 2010-12-17 05:39:21 <newsham> midnight: sounds like you want tools to extract info :)
 552 2010-12-17 05:40:19 <midnightmagic> yeah, generic command-line tools.. i was a little disappointed that bitcoind itself has only a subset of what the json interface seems to be capable of.  but that was a helpful hint in the forum re: the python json command-line thingie. that was cool..
 553 2010-12-17 05:40:29 <nanotube> midnightmagic: you can scrape the info from blockexplorer...
 554 2010-12-17 05:40:37 <nanotube> there's also gavin's bitcointools
 555 2010-12-17 05:40:45 <ArtForz> yep
 556 2010-12-17 05:41:02 <ArtForz> pretty easy to hack something together on top of bitcointools
 557 2010-12-17 05:41:44 <newsham> over time the number of coins "mined" goes down towards zero.  does the block rate stay the same, or does it go down too?
 558 2010-12-17 05:42:03 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 559 2010-12-17 05:42:07 <ArtForz> stays the same
 560 2010-12-17 05:42:23 <newsham> so just the value "mined" in each new block goes down then?
 561 2010-12-17 05:42:23 Grantt has joined
 562 2010-12-17 05:42:23 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
 563 2010-12-17 05:42:26 <ArtForz> # minted coins/block drops
 564 2010-12-17 05:42:42 <ArtForz> currently 50, late 2012 that'll halve to 25
 565 2010-12-17 05:43:13 <newsham> and it gets halved based on the date (roughly)?
 566 2010-12-17 05:43:19 <ArtForz> every 210000 blocks
 567 2010-12-17 05:43:44 <ArtForz> which comes out to close to 4 years at 600 sec/block
 568 2010-12-17 05:43:55 <newsham> seems like that big discontinuity in mining value would have some predictable effect on the value of a coin.
 569 2010-12-17 05:45:02 <newsham> ie: buy coins a few days before the change and sell them a few days after the change to profit.
 570 2010-12-17 05:45:39 <newsham> i would think a smooth change would be better.. but i guess it doesnt matter now :)
 571 2010-12-17 05:45:58 <ArtForz> I'd think so too, but thats the way it is
 572 2010-12-17 05:46:07 <EvanR> its a digital mine ;)
 573 2010-12-17 05:46:14 <nanotube> newsham: presumably, the market will anticipate the effect, and the price change will be smooth.
 574 2010-12-17 05:46:16 <EvanR> adapt accordingly
 575 2010-12-17 05:46:46 <newsham> nanotube: *nod* and markets are efficient and actors are rational, and that cant be $20 on the ground...
 576 2010-12-17 05:46:56 <ArtForz> shouldnt matter much either way as long as everyone knows in advance when the steps happen
 577 2010-12-17 05:47:06 <nanotube> newsham: when an event is known to occur with certainty... it's hard to imagine that there won't be an anticipatory price increase due to buying.
 578 2010-12-17 05:47:06 <kiba> humans are not exactly rational
 579 2010-12-17 05:47:10 <kiba> we can be pretty close sometime
 580 2010-12-17 05:47:20 <kiba> but we screw up
 581 2010-12-17 05:47:35 Tester has joined
 582 2010-12-17 05:48:01 <kiba> there's never been a day that I get the code right on the first time
 583 2010-12-17 05:48:26 <EvanR> try haskell!
 584 2010-12-17 05:48:36 <newsham> ;-)
 585 2010-12-17 05:48:37 <Tester> or Erlang
 586 2010-12-17 05:48:51 <newsham> haskell: you're code is always right (too bad your spec is wrong!)
 587 2010-12-17 05:49:01 <EvanR> in php, theres hasnt been a day where i get the code right... period
 588 2010-12-17 05:49:15 <kiba> it will take a while to incorporate programming into my education diet
 589 2010-12-17 05:49:17 <ArtForz> notabug - "works exactly as coded"
 590 2010-12-17 05:49:28 <nanotube> heh
 591 2010-12-17 05:49:47 <EvanR> im having trouble with jgarzik cpuminder
 592 2010-12-17 05:49:50 <Tester> Have TinyMiner compiling now have to feed it data
 593 2010-12-17 05:49:50 * kiba 's education consists of only one khan video on a math subject
 594 2010-12-17 05:49:54 <EvanR> configure.ac:48: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_MSG_ERROR
 595 2010-12-17 05:50:01 <ArtForz> I know someone who closed a support ticket with that
 596 2010-12-17 05:50:25 <kiba> khan academy video! exceelent.
 597 2010-12-17 05:50:26 <EvanR> do i need the git version
 598 2010-12-17 05:50:34 <ArtForz> "spec says X, code does Y" "code does Y correctly, so it's not a bug"
 599 2010-12-17 05:50:45 <nanotube> hehe
 600 2010-12-17 05:50:57 <Tester> thinking more about the situation without a near real-time transaction feed one does not have a chance to Solve the target to get the block
 601 2010-12-17 05:51:09 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 602 2010-12-17 05:51:15 <EvanR> documentation is easier to become wrong, yet is considered to be canonical for some reason
 603 2010-12-17 05:51:39 Sapians has quit (Quit: Pull the pin and count to what?)
 604 2010-12-17 05:51:40 <newsham> so I was wondering.. has anyone done some analysis of the cheapest way (measured in electricity I guess) to mine, and aproximately how it compares to the market price of btc?
 605 2010-12-17 05:51:42 <kiba> there need to be a hacker academy!
 606 2010-12-17 05:51:50 <kiba> 10 minute video on an algorithm or something
 607 2010-12-17 05:51:51 <Tester> hacked TinyMiner from cpuminder
 608 2010-12-17 05:52:15 <newsham> (also I wonder if/when malware will start building btc mining botnets..)
 609 2010-12-17 05:52:18 <ArtForz> newsham: why do you think people are running GPU farms?
 610 2010-12-17 05:52:47 <Tester> it may be that only a few big players will end up as Miners
 611 2010-12-17 05:52:49 <newsham> art: I'm more interested in what the actual numbers are.  I assume people have done rough estimates for their own use.
 612 2010-12-17 05:53:04 <ArtForz> or just created a simple spreadsheet
 613 2010-12-17 05:53:30 <newsham> also in some places (like where I live) electricity is more expensive than other areas..
 614 2010-12-17 05:53:34 <ArtForz> yes
 615 2010-12-17 05:53:51 <jgarzik> EvanR: what OS version?
 616 2010-12-17 05:54:01 <Tester> there is a luck factor in mining to keep people in that game
 617 2010-12-17 05:54:03 <EvanR> slackware
 618 2010-12-17 05:54:05 <newsham> gpu farm really more cost effective than fpga farm?
 619 2010-12-17 05:54:07 <EvanR> version now
 620 2010-12-17 05:54:17 <ArtForz> nope
 621 2010-12-17 05:54:20 <newsham> tester: luck averages away pretty quickly
 622 2010-12-17 05:54:27 <ArtForz> FPGAs beat GPUs on hash/W
 623 2010-12-17 05:54:38 <EvanR> autoconf 2.65
 624 2010-12-17 05:54:44 <ArtForz> but lose royally on upfront cost/Mhps
 625 2010-12-17 05:54:59 <Tester> but as the transaction rates go way way up mining may not be practical
 626 2010-12-17 05:55:17 <EvanR> practical for what?
 627 2010-12-17 05:55:30 <EvanR> getting rich?
 628 2010-12-17 05:55:33 <ArtForz> even with FPGAs giving best perf/$, you need about $2k in chips alone to match a 5970
 629 2010-12-17 05:55:38 <Tester> at the moment the transactions are low
 630 2010-12-17 05:56:14 <Tester> transactions are like a firehose - look at twitter
 631 2010-12-17 05:56:24 <Tester> fail whale
 632 2010-12-17 05:56:43 <EvanR> jgarzik: what do i do to help you debug this
 633 2010-12-17 05:56:55 <newsham> I'm also curious, for example, how the mining value compares with traditional ways to monetize a botnet.
 634 2010-12-17 05:57:01 <EvanR> i cant comprehend autohell
 635 2010-12-17 05:57:11 <newsham> i bet bitcoin provides a better opportunity for malware (at least in the early phases)
 636 2010-12-17 05:57:22 <EvanR> malware to do what?
 637 2010-12-17 05:57:29 <EvanR> steal your wallet?
 638 2010-12-17 05:57:37 <newsham> mining, i mean.
 639 2010-12-17 05:57:53 <EvanR> wouldnt that be good?
 640 2010-12-17 05:57:58 <EvanR> even more distributed processing
 641 2010-12-17 05:58:02 <Tester> not sure about malware if the community of players becomes more selected
 642 2010-12-17 05:58:12 <newsham> it would be good for some and bad for others (namely the people paying the electric bill)
 643 2010-12-17 05:58:24 <newsham> since in effect botnet is stealing your cpu power/electricity/net bandwidth.
 644 2010-12-17 05:58:30 <Tester> it makes no sense to mine with bad data
 645 2010-12-17 05:58:31 <EvanR> well its their fault for running a malware platform
 646 2010-12-17 05:58:36 <jgarzik> EvanR: download http://yyz.us/bitcoin/cpuminer-0.2.2.tar.gz
 647 2010-12-17 05:59:18 <newsham> evanr: it is not the victim's fault.
 648 2010-12-17 05:59:48 <ArtForz> what?
 649 2010-12-17 05:59:49 <Tester> suppose there is also the remote chance people will be sent transactions to keep them on the ropes
 650 2010-12-17 05:59:52 <EvanR> yes it is, especially if they dont even notice!
 651 2010-12-17 05:59:56 <newsham> anyway, thanks for the tech answers..  i gotta run.
 652 2010-12-17 06:00:10 <EvanR> jgarzik: i got a bunch of 'errors' about timestops on the files being in the future
 653 2010-12-17 06:00:28 <ArtForz> seriously, WTF is up with todays "it's never the victims fault"
 654 2010-12-17 06:00:50 <newsham> I didnt say "never".
 655 2010-12-17 06:00:57 <jgarzik> EvanR: wait 120 seconds
 656 2010-12-17 06:01:02 <Tester> the unsuspecting
 657 2010-12-17 06:01:14 <EvanR> this one builded
 658 2010-12-17 06:01:33 <newsham> but here, let me back that up a little bit.  a "malware platform" is whatever platform is the most widely deployed.  by definition, most people use that platform, no matter what platform it is.  to say one shouldnt run a "malware platform" merely means that people should not run the same platform as everyon eelse
 659 2010-12-17 06:02:11 bertodsera_ has joined
 660 2010-12-17 06:02:34 <Tester> what happens if the transaction rates go sky high ?
 661 2010-12-17 06:02:51 <Tester> sort of a thrashing effect
 662 2010-12-17 06:02:54 bertodsera has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 663 2010-12-17 06:03:14 <Tester> can never make progress and need to make progress to package the transactions into blocks
 664 2010-12-17 06:03:17 <newsham> (yes, there are some braindead things you can do to increase your chances of getting malware, that's some personal blame there)
 665 2010-12-17 06:03:50 <Tester> so does it fail in a big way
 666 2010-12-17 06:04:17 <EvanR> nanotube jgarzik i started a miner ;)
 667 2010-12-17 06:04:43 <EvanR> json_rpc_call failed
 668 2010-12-17 06:04:43 <Tester> or do people luck out and keep getting little bits of progress to work
 669 2010-12-17 06:04:55 lfm has joined
 670 2010-12-17 06:05:14 <jgarzik> EvanR: that means there is a problem connecting to your JSON-RPC bitcoin interface
 671 2010-12-17 06:05:32 <Tester> big miners dont see the potential for hitting the wall
 672 2010-12-17 06:05:35 <jgarzik> EvanR: two common causes: (1) incorrect username/pw for RPC, (2) incorrect URL
 673 2010-12-17 06:05:50 <nanotube> EvanR: are you putting in the info for the pooled miner?
 674 2010-12-17 06:06:11 <EvanR> let me try again
 675 2010-12-17 06:07:03 <EvanR> minderd 100% cpu
 676 2010-12-17 06:08:21 <Tester> so it seems the big miners will get bigger and only a few survive and make sense
 677 2010-12-17 06:08:35 <EvanR> difficulty32, maxjobs 10, found blocks 0, current shares 0
 678 2010-12-17 06:09:08 <lfm> tester why do you think that? You dont have to be big to buy a gpu
 679 2010-12-17 06:09:20 <da2ce7> mining is so proffitable atm, that I don't beleve that it will get exclusice any-time soon.
 680 2010-12-17 06:09:21 <EvanR> Tester: well the pooled server is only big because of the little guys
 681 2010-12-17 06:09:44 <newsham> anyone analyze the block chain to see who the biggest miners are and how well they are doing?
 682 2010-12-17 06:10:01 <Tester> the cost of the gpu is not it the cost of the streams seems more likely to be a factor
 683 2010-12-17 06:10:05 <newsham> (assuming they use the same keys for their mining)
 684 2010-12-17 06:10:17 <da2ce7> newsham, new block generated are annomoyous.... you cannot just 'look at the chain'
 685 2010-12-17 06:10:20 <lfm> and the pooled server will start loosing money before the independant miners
 686 2010-12-17 06:10:44 <newsham> da: doesnt it have to include the pub key for the owner of the new coins?
 687 2010-12-17 06:10:48 <lfm> tester what streams?
 688 2010-12-17 06:11:05 <Tester> transaction streams
 689 2010-12-17 06:11:22 <Tester> you have to stay on top of that global broadcast
 690 2010-12-17 06:11:29 <lfm> I dont understand? what cost of the streams?
 691 2010-12-17 06:11:57 <Tester> what if the transactions go way way way up
 692 2010-12-17 06:12:13 <Tester> mining has to keep up
 693 2010-12-17 06:12:16 <lfm> tester that is only a couple kb per minute, that is not hard to keep up woth
 694 2010-12-17 06:12:24 <da2ce7> tester, then it will get more proffitable to mine
 695 2010-12-17 06:12:32 <EvanR> nanotube: how often do any of my stats change in my profile?
 696 2010-12-17 06:13:00 <da2ce7> if it the fees get too-high, it becomres more proffitable to increase the max-size of the block, so the miners will.
 697 2010-12-17 06:13:17 bertodsera_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 698 2010-12-17 06:13:23 <lfm> Tester: You call yourself tester but it seems you havn't tested bitcoin
 699 2010-12-17 06:13:23 <Tester> it probably would have been better to have some waiting areas for transactions
 700 2010-12-17 06:13:36 <da2ce7> lol
 701 2010-12-17 06:13:38 bertodsera has joined
 702 2010-12-17 06:13:53 <da2ce7> tester, have you acualy researched bitcoin at all?
 703 2010-12-17 06:14:03 <EvanR> lfm: its called internet relay irony
 704 2010-12-17 06:14:38 <Tester> reading and recompiling the code and have a TinyMiner running
 705 2010-12-17 06:15:06 <lfm> what the heck is TinyMiner?
 706 2010-12-17 06:15:33 <Tester> breaking out just the mining part similar to cpuminer
 707 2010-12-17 06:16:21 <lfm> tester ok, so why do you think thet transaction streams are too large to handle?
 708 2010-12-17 06:16:34 <nanotube> EvanR: no idea... ask the guy who's running the pool.
 709 2010-12-17 06:16:39 <Tester> not yet was asking what if
 710 2010-12-17 06:17:05 <lfm> Tester: oh like what if all the electricity generators stop?
 711 2010-12-17 06:17:19 <EvanR> nanotube: im just looking for any indication that im helping besides my computer heating up ;)
 712 2010-12-17 06:17:30 <Tester> no more like if every human wants to use bitcoin
 713 2010-12-17 06:17:54 <lfm> Tester: well, simply put, it wontr happen
 714 2010-12-17 06:18:05 <EvanR> seems like more people would be running nodes in that case too
 715 2010-12-17 06:18:10 <Tester> build it and they will come
 716 2010-12-17 06:18:28 <nanotube> EvanR: over time you'll generate some 'contribution blocks'... but you really should ask slush about the details. i haven't joined this mining pool myself yet.
 717 2010-12-17 06:18:32 <Tester> yes but it is not like torrants
 718 2010-12-17 06:18:47 <da2ce7> It won't happen, but if it dose, the miniers will be making so much money that they will want to increase the block size!
 719 2010-12-17 06:19:00 <Tester> 500k limit ?
 720 2010-12-17 06:19:25 <lfm> bitcoin is not usefull to everyone
 721 2010-12-17 06:19:41 <EvanR> yet! ;)
 722 2010-12-17 06:19:43 <Tester> have to quote that in a year
 723 2010-12-17 06:20:03 <EvanR> 'no one will need less than 0.00000001 coins'
 724 2010-12-17 06:20:10 <da2ce7> lol
 725 2010-12-17 06:20:13 <da2ce7> that is a good one.
 726 2010-12-17 06:20:23 <da2ce7> I give it, say 10 years.
 727 2010-12-17 06:20:28 <da2ce7> or maybe more.
 728 2010-12-17 06:20:29 <Tester> 640k will be good enough
 729 2010-12-17 06:20:38 <da2ce7> :P
 730 2010-12-17 06:20:43 <lfm> well what if everyone at grocery store had to wait an hour at the checkout while the transaction was "confirmed"?
 731 2010-12-17 06:20:45 <nanotube> 21m bitcoins ought to be enough for any economy. :)
 732 2010-12-17 06:21:16 <nanotube> lfm: i doubt small tx like buying groceries would have reason to wait for 6 conf. you could probably even do it at 0 conf.
 733 2010-12-17 06:21:23 <EvanR> lfm: 1 confirmation, and accept some very unlikely 'shrink' which they already do at a phenomenal rate
 734 2010-12-17 06:21:31 <da2ce7> lfm, the the shopping store with smartcards will gain more cutomers.
 735 2010-12-17 06:21:42 <lfm> nanotube grocery transactions are commony 100s of dollars
 736 2010-12-17 06:22:03 <nanotube> still, it's a lot of effort to do a double-spend.
 737 2010-12-17 06:22:07 <EvanR> thats nothing
 738 2010-12-17 06:22:15 <Tester> so bitcoin gravitates to be more like the Fed with daily sweeps of transactions
 739 2010-12-17 06:22:34 <nanotube> lfm: so you go to grocery, spend 100usd worth of bitcoins... the tx propagates through the entire network in a matter of a few seconds.
 740 2010-12-17 06:22:38 * jgarzik wants optional authenticated P2P
 741 2010-12-17 06:22:39 <Diablo-D3> except the Fed is illegal and a violation of the Constitution
 742 2010-12-17 06:22:49 <jgarzik> then I could have a bitcoin fast-txn-propagation service
 743 2010-12-17 06:22:52 <EvanR> how is it anything like the fed?
 744 2010-12-17 06:22:59 <nanotube> so you run as fast as you can to the store next door, and try to spend the same coin - but likelihood is, they won't accept it, because they've already received the earlier tx.
 745 2010-12-17 06:22:59 <lfm> nanotube even if a single confirmation block was enuf that would still be 10 minues average and often much more
 746 2010-12-17 06:23:08 <jgarzik> well, I suppose with IP pre-registration I could do that anyway
 747 2010-12-17 06:23:09 <nanotube> lfm: i'm saying, even 0 conf is enough.
 748 2010-12-17 06:23:39 <ArtForz> 0 conf is somewhat risky
 749 2010-12-17 06:23:56 <EvanR> people dont wait for credit card confirmation
 750 2010-12-17 06:24:06 <ArtForz> yep
 751 2010-12-17 06:24:10 <da2ce7> the shop will wait like 20sec. they will get a reply from the big generators that that transaction has been locked in que.
 752 2010-12-17 06:24:20 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=423.0;all
 753 2010-12-17 06:24:36 <jgarzik> Bitcoin snack machine (fast transaction problem)
 754 2010-12-17 06:25:15 <Tester> so maybe two classes of bitcoins one that are floating free and others secured
 755 2010-12-17 06:25:23 <ArtForz> attacker wait until he generates a block including version B of his transaction, hands version A of his TX to shopkeep, shopkeep braadcasts it, miners ACK it, attacker walks out the door and broadcasts his block
 756 2010-12-17 06:25:35 <nanotube> ArtForz: how risky? whenever someone sends me btc, i see a 0/conf tx within seconds
 757 2010-12-17 06:25:52 <nanotube> once the tx propagates, no node will accept a double-spend of the same coins as valid, even if it hasn't made it into a block yet
 758 2010-12-17 06:26:00 <ArtForz> read what I wrote
 759 2010-12-17 06:26:03 <nanotube> to double spend, you really have to spend them /at the same time/
 760 2010-12-17 06:26:12 <nanotube> ah reading missed it
 761 2010-12-17 06:26:12 <lfm> i think bitcoin will never replace all other money for stuff like buying groceries
 762 2010-12-17 06:26:27 CIA-52 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 763 2010-12-17 06:26:33 <ArtForz> yep
 764 2010-12-17 06:26:42 <nanotube> ArtForz: ah... pregenerated block... generating a block is expensive though.
 765 2010-12-17 06:26:48 <ArtForz> yep
 766 2010-12-17 06:27:01 <ArtForz> but not few-100-$ expensive
 767 2010-12-17 06:27:01 <nanotube> ArtForz: not to mention that by the time you walk into a store and buy... the network may have generated a block, making your pregenerated one useless
 768 2010-12-17 06:27:12 <Tester> bitcoin may be better for some sort of session charging like daily internet usage at a hotel
 769 2010-12-17 06:27:29 <ArtForz> you'd obviously need some connection to your mining farm, and you run the risk of the network fidning a block
 770 2010-12-17 06:27:37 <Tester> and if they do not get paid it is only a service loss
 771 2010-12-17 06:28:05 <Tester> they write it off
 772 2010-12-17 06:28:10 <da2ce7> the shop will put a random ammout on the transaction so it cannot be pre-computed.
 773 2010-12-17 06:28:10 <ArtForz> I dont think bitcoin was intended to replace cash
 774 2010-12-17 06:28:30 <da2ce7> as in a random ammout of 0.00000232 eg.
 775 2010-12-17 06:28:35 <ArtForz> and 6 conf is a lot quicker than waiting days for a wire transfer to go through
 776 2010-12-17 06:28:53 utsl has joined
 777 2010-12-17 06:29:01 <kiba> wee
 778 2010-12-17 06:29:05 <Tester> wire transfer is a good model
 779 2010-12-17 06:29:07 <kiba> I finally finished my programming task for the day
 780 2010-12-17 06:29:26 <EvanR> so
 781 2010-12-17 06:29:30 <kiba> which consists of...
 782 2010-12-17 06:29:34 <EvanR> confirmations go faster the more total cpu power you have?
 783 2010-12-17 06:29:36 <kiba> doing 3 different projects
 784 2010-12-17 06:30:08 <jgarzik> EvanR: confirmations are targetted to occur every 10 minutes
 785 2010-12-17 06:30:15 <EvanR> thats what i thought
 786 2010-12-17 06:30:31 <jgarzik> EvanR: sometimes it is a bit faster, sometimes slower.  but your basic assumption should be 10 minutes/confirmation.
 787 2010-12-17 06:30:41 <EvanR> so in that thread 'the problem with slow confirmations is because of a litle amount of nodes' is wrong
 788 2010-12-17 06:31:04 <EvanR> its designed to take about 10 minutes
 789 2010-12-17 06:31:18 <lfm> EvanR: right
 790 2010-12-17 06:31:27 <newsham> if 10-min confirmations ever becomes a problem, bitcoin probably already won.
 791 2010-12-17 06:32:17 <jgarzik> the one thing I wonder about high transaction rates is:  what would the likely difficulty be, at 1 million transactions/block?
 792 2010-12-17 06:32:18 <Tester> it is not like torrants where more players add to the capacity in the same way
 793 2010-12-17 06:32:18 <da2ce7> the most relistic system would be for shops to have 'account' ballances, and sell the grociers at debit at first, and with reputation accept credit.
 794 2010-12-17 06:32:33 <jgarzik> you're receiving all sorts of transactions every millisecond.  do you batch them at that point?
 795 2010-12-17 06:32:45 <jgarzik> you wouldn't want to restart the scanhash for each new TX.
 796 2010-12-17 06:32:57 <Tester> you have to restart
 797 2010-12-17 06:33:06 <ArtForz> miners only add TXes to the block once every 60 seconds
 798 2010-12-17 06:33:28 <jgarzik> now?
 799 2010-12-17 06:33:30 <ArtForz> yes
 800 2010-12-17 06:33:31 <jgarzik> that's nice.
 801 2010-12-17 06:33:36 <Tester> miners risk working on garbage
 802 2010-12-17 06:33:46 <ArtForz> what?
 803 2010-12-17 06:33:54 <lfm> Tester: no, transactions missed go into next blockl
 804 2010-12-17 06:33:57 <ArtForz> yep
 805 2010-12-17 06:34:14 <Tester> only if all people play the same way
 806 2010-12-17 06:34:17 <ArtForz> if a tx doesnt get into a block, the originating node resends it 5-30 min later
 807 2010-12-17 06:34:29 <lfm> Tester: yes, all miners work that way now
 808 2010-12-17 06:34:41 <Tester> TCP started that way then people gamed it tuned it
 809 2010-12-17 06:35:19 <ArtForz> yes, the current network wont scale to much more than 100 tx/minute or so
 810 2010-12-17 06:35:27 <lfm> tester huh? whats that got to do with it
 811 2010-12-17 06:35:36 <ArtForz> luckily the network layout has nothing to do withthe basic block chain
 812 2010-12-17 06:35:55 <utsl> presumably it doesn't cost more to hash a larger block because of the merkle tree
 813 2010-12-17 06:36:10 <ArtForz> yep
 814 2010-12-17 06:36:13 <utsl> you're just hashing hashes as I read the paper, like git does
 815 2010-12-17 06:36:23 <ArtForz> there is a cost to rebuilding the merkle tree, which is why we're only doing it once a minute
 816 2010-12-17 06:36:25 <lfm> utsl correct, you only hash the root of the merkle tree
 817 2010-12-17 06:37:09 <utsl> does it fit in one SHA-256 block?
 818 2010-12-17 06:37:14 <Tester> but that rebuilding of the tree is not a centralized function
 819 2010-12-17 06:37:17 <ArtForz> not quite
 820 2010-12-17 06:37:26 <ArtForz> block header is 80 bytes
 821 2010-12-17 06:37:35 <EvanR> about the snack machine the most obvious reply was ... nothing stops your bank from issuing you a debit card that simply spends your bitcoins
 822 2010-12-17 06:37:44 <lfm> utsl the miner hashes the block header which is 80 bytes so it is 2 blocks
 823 2010-12-17 06:37:58 <EvanR> i mean really, how else would you even put the coins in the machine
 824 2010-12-17 06:38:04 <ArtForz> and then does hash-of-hash
 825 2010-12-17 06:38:05 <EvanR> problem solved
 826 2010-12-17 06:38:08 <Tester> once you have stale data mining should restart
 827 2010-12-17 06:38:15 <ArtForz> tester: are you trolling or just clueless?
 828 2010-12-17 06:38:43 <utsl> EvanR: rfid cards also come to mind
 829 2010-12-17 06:39:51 <da2ce7> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1825.0
 830 2010-12-17 06:40:03 <Tester> look at the other end of the spectrum a miner who is way behind on transactions - does it make sense to mine ?
 831 2010-12-17 06:40:11 <ArtForz> yes
 832 2010-12-17 06:40:12 <da2ce7> bitcoin smartcards... solves most of the over-the-counter issues.
 833 2010-12-17 06:40:14 <newsham> btw, are there plans to get rid of irc as a peer discovery mechanism?
 834 2010-12-17 06:40:18 <newsham> seems pretty "beta" :)
 835 2010-12-17 06:40:42 <ArtForz> I think it's on gavins todo list
 836 2010-12-17 06:40:52 <lfm> tester simple, try it, turn off your bitcoin for a day or so and see how long it takes to catch up. its not hard
 837 2010-12-17 06:41:06 <newsham> ok, gone for real tihs time.. many thanks all and artforz especially.
 838 2010-12-17 06:41:37 <ArtForz> I think the idea is to replace IRC with a bunch of http servers running a simple "tracker" script
 839 2010-12-17 06:42:24 <Tester> there are kerberos based P2P groups that can discover peers that way
 840 2010-12-17 06:42:56 <ArtForz> and we only need it for initial bootstrapping really
 841 2010-12-17 06:43:13 <ArtForz> once a node got a bunch of peer addrs via p2p, it can just try those first
 842 2010-12-17 06:43:42 <Tester> and some systems already have very mature reputation systems they can use
 843 2010-12-17 06:43:53 <Tester> so miners can be special people
 844 2010-12-17 06:44:04 <Tester> special nodes
 845 2010-12-17 06:44:42 <ArtForz> when TX rate is a few orders of magnitude higher there probably wont be any independent miners left
 846 2010-12-17 06:44:55 <Tester> the current traffic levels are toy so it is hard to consider the reality of serious streams
 847 2010-12-17 06:45:12 <nanotube> jgarzik: suggestion: a -d switch to minerd to autodaemonize... and ability to take user:pass from a conf file, rather than just cli arg (so it doesn't show up in ps list)
 848 2010-12-17 06:45:15 <lfm> yes, many ways to discover peers. could use all of them even, dont really have to stop using irc
 849 2010-12-17 06:45:56 <ArtForz> well, beyond 1Mbit/s or so of transactions the broadcast structure becomes a problem for peers on crappy home lines
 850 2010-12-17 06:45:59 <Tester> carving out is not a problem - less is more can work
 851 2010-12-17 06:46:39 <Tester> yes broadcast of transactions is what the point was
 852 2010-12-17 06:46:55 <Tester> they are like a fire hose
 853 2010-12-17 06:46:59 <ArtForz> = move to network of servers broadcasting between each other with lightweight nodes and miners hanging off of em
 854 2010-12-17 06:47:08 <lfm> ya like earlt bitcoin used to make many more connections, now stops trying nfor new ones after 8 (stall accepts incoming too)
 855 2010-12-17 06:47:34 <ArtForz> 8 outgoing connections should be plenty
 856 2010-12-17 06:47:53 <kiba> speedier internet in the future?
 857 2010-12-17 06:47:55 <grondilu> last call for auction on #bitcoin-auction !
 858 2010-12-17 06:48:19 <Tester> people saw the same thing in the domain name registries people became virtual registrars to have extra capacity to pound the servers
 859 2010-12-17 06:48:39 <lfm> kiba, right many casandra's forget that the internet will probably continue to get faster
 860 2010-12-17 06:49:09 lkje has joined
 861 2010-12-17 06:49:19 <ArtForz> yeah, except imo it's reasonable to assume bitcoin will grow faster than consumer bandwidth
 862 2010-12-17 06:49:43 <utsl> don't forget the poor edge of the internet!
 863 2010-12-17 06:49:59 <nanotube> ArtForz: heh, especially in the usa.
 864 2010-12-17 06:50:05 <Tester> yes but people will be cautious because some scaling is not intuitive
 865 2010-12-17 06:50:25 <ArtForz> even today it might make sense to create something like a hub/leaf system for nodes on really crappy connections
 866 2010-12-17 06:50:29 lkje has quit (Client Quit)
 867 2010-12-17 06:50:36 <lfm> utsl well we already admit that old computers wont be able to mine competitavly, no use firing up that p90 in the closet
 868 2010-12-17 06:50:36 <Tester> skype
 869 2010-12-17 06:51:02 <kiba> well
 870 2010-12-17 06:51:07 <kiba> payment processing firms
 871 2010-12-17 06:51:13 <kiba> will take the brunt of the transactions
 872 2010-12-17 06:51:15 <ArtForz> like... clients on mobile devices with $/MB plans
 873 2010-12-17 06:51:15 <utsl> one of the problems, imho, with bittorrent's practice of establishing connections all over the place is that it is not backbone-friendly
 874 2010-12-17 06:51:30 <utsl> it assumes that there is no greater cost talking to one node as the next
 875 2010-12-17 06:51:37 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
 876 2010-12-17 06:51:57 * kiba ponders about inter-payment processing
 877 2010-12-17 06:52:12 <utsl> it's a difficult problem to figure out though, making an efficient yet redundant graph
 878 2010-12-17 06:52:16 <lfm> utsl I thot some bittorrent tried to prefer local connects just by speed
 879 2010-12-17 06:52:39 <ArtForz> quite a few clients also prefer peers with "close" IPs
 880 2010-12-17 06:53:03 <utsl> sure, but to make the graph overall efficient you'd need to have a good balance of close and far IPs
 881 2010-12-17 06:53:06 <Tester> not to worry on peer groups those already are out there
 882 2010-12-17 06:53:24 <utsl> people on slower addresses might want no far IPs at all
 883 2010-12-17 06:53:45 <ArtForz> the problem is that in a broadcast network every node sees roughly the same amount of traffic
 884 2010-12-17 06:54:10 <lfm> utsl people on slow (modem) connect have less impact overall on the backbones anyway
 885 2010-12-17 06:54:59 aress has joined
 886 2010-12-17 06:55:30 <utsl> ideally you want to emulate multicast
 887 2010-12-17 06:55:49 <utsl> having knowledge/visibility of routing/peering relationships would help
 888 2010-12-17 06:55:50 <ArtForz> yep
 889 2010-12-17 06:56:49 <utsl> all seems to point towards some kind of DHT to keep track of it all, to try to limit the number of duplicate copies of info that travels over major backbones and choke points
 890 2010-12-17 06:56:56 <lfm> current system kinda has two classes already, those who accept incomming connects and those who cant behind nat or proxys
 891 2010-12-17 06:57:14 <ArtForz> I dont see how that would help, it's still a broadcast network
 892 2010-12-17 06:57:23 <Tester> DHT ?
 893 2010-12-17 06:57:30 <utsl> distributed hash table
 894 2010-12-17 06:57:50 <Tester> yes I know - have an Erlang one here
 895 2010-12-17 06:58:19 <utsl> so, could solve two problems at once; peer discovery and optimal network configuration
 896 2010-12-17 06:58:35 * utsl starts flying from the hand-waving
 897 2010-12-17 06:58:35 <Tester> ACID is an interesting collection of requirements
 898 2010-12-17 07:00:31 <Tester> DHT can benefit from being married with the bitcoin throttle
 899 2010-12-17 07:00:45 <Tester> one risk with DHT is people abusing it
 900 2010-12-17 07:01:11 <utsl> mmm
 901 2010-12-17 07:01:24 <Tester> like bots that fill up cloud storage with random stuff
 902 2010-12-17 07:01:28 <utsl> one of my other research projects is a distributed ACID system
 903 2010-12-17 07:01:46 <Diablo-D3> distributed ACID is "easy"
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 906 2010-12-17 07:02:03 <Tester> then you have the special case of DHT for the global ROM
 907 2010-12-17 07:02:19 <Tester> a different problem because the blocks are never changed
 908 2010-12-17 07:03:21 <utsl> http://samv.github.com/Git-DB/design/distribution.html  # the "democratic computing" section I don't think exists yet
 909 2010-12-17 07:03:48 <utsl> I haven't written up an awful lot on it yet, am still yak shaving
 910 2010-12-17 07:04:33 <utsl> the idea there is that a set of nodes all perform updates to a data set and vote on which answer is correct
 911 2010-12-17 07:04:39 <Tester> unfortunately people will abuse and game anything especially when money comes into play
 912 2010-12-17 07:05:08 <utsl> so long as you can catch them, that should be fine :)
 913 2010-12-17 07:05:21 <Tester> sailors take 3 watches to sea to compare them all
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 916 2010-12-17 07:06:55 <lfm> Tester  man with a watch always knoes what time it is --: man with multiple watches will never quite know exactly
 917 2010-12-17 07:07:24 <Tester> yep and it gets worse and worse
 918 2010-12-17 07:08:00 <utsl> in a multi-master system, you take your N nodes in sync and designate some odd number of them as able to vote
 919 2010-12-17 07:08:02 <nanotube> lfm: and, a stopped watch is exactly right twice a day.
 920 2010-12-17 07:08:20 <kiba> democracy doesn't mean it will compute the right answer, utsl
 921 2010-12-17 07:08:21 <utsl> the quorum must agree on updates to proceed
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 923 2010-12-17 07:08:29 <kiba> you have the prediction market for that
 924 2010-12-17 07:08:42 <utsl> the assumption is that *most* nodes cannot be simultaneously gamed
 925 2010-12-17 07:09:17 <utsl> say you've got 15 clearing nodes, then the assumption is you can't game 8 or more of them
 926 2010-12-17 07:09:43 <utsl> I mean, you need 8 or more malicious nodes
 927 2010-12-17 07:10:03 <utsl> I've written code to do this, for a multi-master system
 928 2010-12-17 07:10:21 <Tester> so what happens on bitcoin if all miners take a month off ?
 929 2010-12-17 07:10:34 <Tester> go on strike
 930 2010-12-17 07:10:58 <kiba> nightie night
 931 2010-12-17 07:12:42 <lfm> tester silly question, lots others will jump in to fill void
 932 2010-12-17 07:14:41 <Tester> sort of like consumers going into their backyards to start drilling for oil when they see problems in the gulf ?
 933 2010-12-17 07:14:58 <Tester> just second nature to start mining up ?
 934 2010-12-17 07:16:07 <lfm> tester ya, if oil rigs cost as much as a pc ya
 935 2010-12-17 07:16:35 <Tester> making an assumption a pc can mine and be a success
 936 2010-12-17 07:17:03 <lfm> Tester: what do you think is mining now? thay are all pcs afaik
 937 2010-12-17 07:17:11 <Tester> toys
 938 2010-12-17 07:17:32 <Tester> and a couple of pieces of big iron
 939 2010-12-17 07:17:34 <ArtForz> right now all miners are more-or-less toys
 940 2010-12-17 07:17:57 <lfm> they aint using crey supers for bitcoin
 941 2010-12-17 07:18:04 <ArtForz> out total hashrate is about == 200 HD5970s
 942 2010-12-17 07:18:22 <nanotube> well, if we have millions of people seti@homing it up on bitcoin... that'd still be some serious power.
 943 2010-12-17 07:18:26 <Tester> wait until those 3000 ps3s at NSA kick in
 944 2010-12-17 07:18:43 <ArtForz> PS3s wouldnt make much of a dent
 945 2010-12-17 07:18:45 <nanotube> a ps3 is less hashpower than a ati
 946 2010-12-17 07:18:51 <ArtForz> a LOT less
 947 2010-12-17 07:18:52 <Tester> jk
 948 2010-12-17 07:18:59 <lfm> Tester: that wont happen ps3s suck too much elecricity
 949 2010-12-17 07:19:05 <ArtForz> iirc about 17Mh/s
 950 2010-12-17 07:19:09 <nanotube> nsa doesn't pay for electricity, though, lfm :)
 951 2010-12-17 07:19:19 <utsl> how much better could a custom ASIC really be than an ATI?
 952 2010-12-17 07:19:19 <nanotube> (at least... not with its own money)
 953 2010-12-17 07:19:24 <ArtForz> which is about what a Phenom II X6 gets
 954 2010-12-17 07:19:27 <ArtForz> a LOt better
 955 2010-12-17 07:19:35 <utsl> with that many execution units
 956 2010-12-17 07:19:49 <lfm> utsl ati gpu might as well be a custom asic for bitcoin
 957 2010-12-17 07:20:02 <ArtForz> not quite
 958 2010-12-17 07:20:25 <utsl> The market could always be fragmented to deal with this
 959 2010-12-17 07:20:29 <ArtForz> a smallish ASIC run would give similar perf/$ to ATI GPUs, about 10x perf/W
 960 2010-12-17 07:20:32 <utsl> using different hash algos
 961 2010-12-17 07:20:44 <Diablo-D3> yes, but cost millions to develop and produce
 962 2010-12-17 07:20:50 <ArtForz> not really
 963 2010-12-17 07:20:51 <Diablo-D3> cheaper to just buy 5970s
 964 2010-12-17 07:20:58 <utsl> on a small scale, yes
 965 2010-12-17 07:21:14 <ArtForz> about $200k for a smallish ASIC run
 966 2010-12-17 07:21:49 <lfm> for about 200k you could own the market for BTC by just buying BTC
 967 2010-12-17 07:22:13 devon_hillard has joined
 968 2010-12-17 07:22:28 <utsl> I think that might just inflate it :)
 969 2010-12-17 07:22:29 <ArtForz> increasing hash/W makes bitcoin more resilient
 970 2010-12-17 07:22:33 <Tester> BTW the hash algo in the code seems to be simpler than wiki implies
 971 2010-12-17 07:23:21 <Diablo-D3> Tester: its sha256(sha256(80 byte header))
 972 2010-12-17 07:23:28 <Tester> and everyone has to use the exact algo
 973 2010-12-17 07:23:59 <Tester> yes it is double hash and nonce walks around in some bits
 974 2010-12-17 07:24:15 <Diablo-D3> nonce is 20th int of the header
 975 2010-12-17 07:24:32 <lfm> Tester: the standard algo works, there may be some stripping for speed of wasted steps but you can use the standard hash libraries if you want
 976 2010-12-17 07:24:46 <Tester> nonce code is tied to the compiler so x86 better be consistent
 977 2010-12-17 07:24:54 <Diablo-D3> no its not
 978 2010-12-17 07:24:57 <Diablo-D3> its just a plain counter
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 981 2010-12-17 07:25:09 Granttt has joined
 982 2010-12-17 07:25:25 <Tester> depends on Endian ordering
 983 2010-12-17 07:25:43 <Diablo-D3> not in the sense you're trying to describe
 984 2010-12-17 07:25:50 <lfm> Tester: ya, the endian codeing has to be watched carefiully
 985 2010-12-17 07:25:53 <Diablo-D3> the endian ordering has to be correct every step of the way
 986 2010-12-17 07:26:09 <ArtForz> endianness of nonce doesnt matter
 987 2010-12-17 07:26:19 <Tester> otherwise people are solving differently
 988 2010-12-17 07:26:39 <ArtForz> I count up my nonces wrong-endian and convert afterwards, same result
 989 2010-12-17 07:26:53 <lfm> Tester: for instance VIA C7 cpu has a sha256 hardcoded instruction that I have used for mining and have produced blocks in the standard block chain
 990 2010-12-17 07:28:04 <OneFixt> lfm: What's the kh/s and kh/s/watt on the C7?
 991 2010-12-17 07:28:04 <Tester> once a solution is known and accepted how it got there is lost
 992 2010-12-17 07:28:40 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 993 2010-12-17 07:28:42 <lfm> OneFixt: about 1500 khas/s at about 27 watss for the whold system
 994 2010-12-17 07:28:46 <Tester> one could luck out on a random number
 995 2010-12-17 07:29:08 <ArtForz> meh
 996 2010-12-17 07:29:13 <OneFixt> thanks
 997 2010-12-17 07:29:54 <lfm> Tester: exactly, a machine that will probably only produce one block per month could produce two blocks in a hour by chance
 998 2010-12-17 07:30:28 <ArtForz> so about 0.055Mhash/W
 999 2010-12-17 07:31:06 <ArtForz> thats even worse than a PhenomII
1000 2010-12-17 07:31:08 <MT`AwAy> kiba: would you be ok switching to CC-by ?
1001 2010-12-17 07:31:13 <Tester> but they have to produce something that can chain
1002 2010-12-17 07:31:36 <ArtForz> PhenomII gets about 0.13Mh/W
1003 2010-12-17 07:31:43 <lfm> ArtForz: I find it is very close to phenom II cpu I have in khash/s/w
1004 2010-12-17 07:32:25 <Tester> in the code only 8 bits are checked for zeroes
1005 2010-12-17 07:33:03 <lfm> Tester: 4 bytes at first actually then more accurate test later
1006 2010-12-17 07:33:27 <Tester> looking again at the cpuminer code
1007 2010-12-17 07:33:46 <lfm> maybe your TinyMiner is different from others
1008 2010-12-17 07:33:56 <Tester> code forked it
1009 2010-12-17 07:34:22 <Tester> why mine with a different algo ?
1010 2010-12-17 07:34:31 <lfm> usually does 32 bit test of hash[7] == 0
1011 2010-12-17 07:35:48 <mizerydearia> Most amazing pizza restaurant website I've encountered: http://mellowmushroom.com/
1012 2010-12-17 07:35:53 <lfm> they only use simplified test for preliminary test. final test is full 256 bit compare of hash < target
1013 2010-12-17 07:35:59 <mizerydearia> pizza + beer ^_^
1014 2010-12-17 07:36:09 <mizerydearia> art and music too
1015 2010-12-17 07:36:10 <Tester> yes 32 bits
1016 2010-12-17 07:36:14 <Tester> better
1017 2010-12-17 07:36:28 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: fail, flash is for fags
1018 2010-12-17 07:36:34 <mizerydearia> based in Atlanta, GA
1019 2010-12-17 07:36:39 <mizerydearia> Diablo-D3, html5 is still new
1020 2010-12-17 07:36:54 <mizerydearia> besides fine-ass girls and guys are awesomez ^_^
1021 2010-12-17 07:36:56 <Tester> hash32[7] == 0
1022 2010-12-17 07:37:02 <Diablo-D3> dont even need html5 for that
1023 2010-12-17 07:37:07 <mizerydearia> dhtml
1024 2010-12-17 07:37:19 <Diablo-D3> yes, if you want to use a decade old term
1025 2010-12-17 07:37:29 <Diablo-D3> dhtml was the buzzword when msie4 was popular
1026 2010-12-17 07:38:17 <Tester> nonce is a pointer to 32 at data+12
1027 2010-12-17 07:38:43 <Diablo-D3> Tester: er, except
1028 2010-12-17 07:38:46 <Diablo-D3> nonce is the 20th int
1029 2010-12-17 07:40:09 <Tester> so this midstate stuff is partial hash ?
1030 2010-12-17 07:40:21 <Diablo-D3> yes
1031 2010-12-17 07:40:36 <lfm> data[19] ya
1032 2010-12-17 07:40:43 <Tester> so miners are working on sort-of-the-solution
1033 2010-12-17 07:40:58 <Diablo-D3> sha256 is done in stages when the input is > 64 bytes
1034 2010-12-17 07:41:13 <Diablo-D3> the first 64 bytes doesnt change, so the client just hands the first stage already done
1035 2010-12-17 07:41:39 <Diablo-D3> a miner doesnt need to use midstate
1036 2010-12-17 07:41:49 <Diablo-D3> mine doesnt when checking the full solution
1037 2010-12-17 07:42:30 <Tester> so people don't game this ?
1038 2010-12-17 07:42:39 <Diablo-D3> game what?
1039 2010-12-17 07:42:47 <lfm> VIA C7 doesnt use midstate either
1040 2010-12-17 07:43:02 <Diablo-D3> lfm: it could though
1041 2010-12-17 07:43:27 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ya, you have mentioned that before, I cant figure out how tho
1042 2010-12-17 07:43:48 <Diablo-D3> lfm: the engine uses two memory pages, lock the first one and it wont overwrite it, yet still function right
1043 2010-12-17 07:43:49 <Tester> actually gaming is the other direction - it seems people could be duped into mining and never having a chance
1044 2010-12-17 07:44:03 <Diablo-D3> Tester: thats nonsensical
1045 2010-12-17 07:44:31 <ArtForz> it should be possible to do use midstate caching on c7
1046 2010-12-17 07:44:42 <Tester> why ? people could be given software that crunches away and gets close but no cigar
1047 2010-12-17 07:44:46 <ArtForz> at least according to the docs
1048 2010-12-17 07:45:06 <Diablo-D3> Tester: well, for example, everyone has access to the estimated time it takes to produce a block
1049 2010-12-17 07:45:11 <lfm> Tester: ya maybe cept you can tell when you should have a good block and can be suspicious if your blocks are consistantly rejected
1050 2010-12-17 07:45:24 <Tester> bingo
1051 2010-12-17 07:45:49 <Tester> but who knows what a good block is ?
1052 2010-12-17 07:46:20 <Tester> like the sailors 3 watches
1053 2010-12-17 07:46:31 <lfm> Tester:  for instance there was a bug in an early version of bitcoin for 64 bit linux clients. It took me a while and fair bit of wpork to prove it to the code maintainers
1054 2010-12-17 07:46:53 <Tester> yes someone mentioned some CPUs doing strange things
1055 2010-12-17 07:47:00 <lfm> good blocksa are well defined
1056 2010-12-17 07:47:08 <Tester> I bet they are
1057 2010-12-17 07:47:21 <Tester> golden blocks
1058 2010-12-17 07:47:36 <lfm> so you can tell what is and what isnt good by yourself
1059 2010-12-17 07:47:38 <Tester> from golden boys
1060 2010-12-17 07:48:43 <lfm> tester ya, only people who can read can verify the definition
1061 2010-12-17 07:48:46 <Tester> not a matter of a person studying it and knowing it is a matter of a noob being given code that never quite gets there
1062 2010-12-17 07:50:03 <Tester> so they mine and mine and hope and hope
1063 2010-12-17 07:50:29 <Tester> and the big boys build the chain
1064 2010-12-17 07:51:08 <Tester> same thing happened in the domain name game
1065 2010-12-17 07:51:42 <lfm> well ya, you kinda have to trust any precompiled program you load up on your computer. if you read and understand the source and compile it yourself you have a better chance of knowing what you are doing with your computer
1066 2010-12-17 07:52:32 <Tester> yes and then you have the phenom of the block chain builders who also know what "correct" is
1067 2010-12-17 07:53:04 <lfm> same point. it is well defined
1068 2010-12-17 07:53:12 Grantt has joined
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1070 2010-12-17 07:53:18 <Tester> not just one correct solution
1071 2010-12-17 07:53:20 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1072 2010-12-17 07:53:42 Lysacor has joined
1073 2010-12-17 07:54:29 <Tester> miners are tossing darts and have to hit the solution space near the target
1074 2010-12-17 07:55:18 AAA_awright has joined
1075 2010-12-17 07:57:09 <lfm> Tester: throwing darts blindfolded and the target moves after you put on the blindfold
1076 2010-12-17 07:57:35 <Tester> yes and the darts wobble and the wind gusts
1077 2010-12-17 07:58:09 <lfm> and you throw 1000s of darts every second
1078 2010-12-17 07:58:26 <Tester> yes all while being sprayed with the firehose of transactions
1079 2010-12-17 07:59:31 <talso> how big is the target?
1080 2010-12-17 07:59:32 AAA_awright_ has joined
1081 2010-12-17 08:00:02 <mizerydearia> Soon I anticipate people in various countries searching the web for "pizza" will stumble upon my website and possibly learn more about bitcoin ^_^
1082 2010-12-17 08:00:15 <lfm> talso you have to hit the bullseye and it is shrinking every two weeks
1083 2010-12-17 08:00:36 <talso> word
1084 2010-12-17 08:01:10 <Tester> and you rely on all of the players to collectively agree that is really the bullseye and your dart is in it
1085 2010-12-17 08:01:37 <lfm> Tester: well thats only disputed by tester
1086 2010-12-17 08:01:44 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1087 2010-12-17 08:02:04 m0mchil has joined
1088 2010-12-17 08:02:09 <lfm> digital darts are never in doubt, they either hit or they dont, there is no in between
1089 2010-12-17 08:02:21 <Tester> drift drift
1090 2010-12-17 08:02:41 <Tester> the majority can drift but that is unlikely
1091 2010-12-17 08:03:08 <lfm> hash < target is pretty easy to test even if it is 256 bits long
1092 2010-12-17 08:04:47 <Tester> yes but the block chain building is via consensus of code
1093 2010-12-17 08:05:26 <lfm> and we all have copies of the block chain we can examine to our hearts content. if you havnt you can complain
1094 2010-12-17 08:05:29 <Tester> finding a solution is only the start then you broadcast that
1095 2010-12-17 08:05:49 Granttt has joined
1096 2010-12-17 08:05:49 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
1097 2010-12-17 08:05:49 Granttt has joined
1098 2010-12-17 08:08:16 <Tester> no need to complain - more important to know what is really happening
1099 2010-12-17 08:08:19 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1100 2010-12-17 08:08:47 <lfm> Tester: ya, you gotta know first
1101 2010-12-17 08:08:54 <Tester> sort of like when people do forensics or root cause analysis
1102 2010-12-17 08:09:47 <lfm> accounting forensics is one of the values of the block chain
1103 2010-12-17 08:09:51 <Tester> so if people look at a block and see an odd mix of transactions and everyone gave consensus that is the best chain
1104 2010-12-17 08:10:46 <Tester> everyone being everyone's software that started with a common origin but now could drift
1105 2010-12-17 08:11:51 <lfm> I think almost everyone still uses Satoshi's binaries just like he posts them
1106 2010-12-17 08:12:12 <Tester> really ? it seems the big iron people have crey code
1107 2010-12-17 08:13:22 <lfm> no one uses cray's, I think most still use the basic client, miners can be separate but the miners just connect to Satoshi's client mostly these days
1108 2010-12-17 08:13:59 <Tester> yes it is still the fun toy days
1109 2010-12-17 08:14:13 <Tester> good times
1110 2010-12-17 08:14:33 <lfm> it is still Satoshi's client that manages the block chain and the net
1111 2010-12-17 08:14:37 <Tester> like tcp/ip in 1980s
1112 2010-12-17 08:14:53 Grantt has joined
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1114 2010-12-17 08:15:37 <lfm> Tester: I think tcp/ip started on the big comnputers, not pcs
1115 2010-12-17 08:15:43 <Tester> and block chain plus transactions
1116 2010-12-17 08:15:55 <Tester> VAXen
1117 2010-12-17 08:15:59 <Tester> a lot
1118 2010-12-17 08:16:11 <Tester> and imps
1119 2010-12-17 08:16:25 <lfm> imps?
1120 2010-12-17 08:16:41 <Tester> those were like routers
1121 2010-12-17 08:17:01 <Tester> custom packet boxes
1122 2010-12-17 08:17:02 <lfm> ah
1123 2010-12-17 08:17:21 <Diablo-D3> interface message processor
1124 2010-12-17 08:17:29 <lfm> ok
1125 2010-12-17 08:18:09 <Diablo-D3> but this is when arpanet was around
1126 2010-12-17 08:18:14 <Diablo-D3> not really important information
1127 2010-12-17 08:18:57 <Tester> so how much storage will the block chain have in 2040 ?
1128 2010-12-17 08:19:25 <Diablo-D3> over 9000 gb
1129 2010-12-17 08:19:32 <lfm> how much will a disk drive hold in 2040?
1130 2010-12-17 08:19:34 <ArtForz> 21 jiggabytes
1131 2010-12-17 08:20:10 asdf30 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1132 2010-12-17 08:20:27 <Tester> wonder how many golden copies will be in ram at that time
1133 2010-12-17 08:20:57 <Tester> saw a supermicro motherboard with 192gig
1134 2010-12-17 08:21:12 grondilu has joined
1135 2010-12-17 08:21:16 <Diablo-D3> Tester: yeah, but you need special dimms for those
1136 2010-12-17 08:21:48 <lfm> buffered dimms?
1137 2010-12-17 08:21:58 <Diablo-D3> yup
1138 2010-12-17 08:22:09 <Tester> dimms with bitcoins ?
1139 2010-12-17 08:22:14 <Tester> :-)
1140 2010-12-17 08:22:18 <Diablo-D3> and it also implies you're filling those with 8 gb dimms
1141 2010-12-17 08:22:27 <lfm> buy dims with btc
1142 2010-12-17 08:22:37 <ArtForz> why even bother with ram?
1143 2010-12-17 08:22:46 <Abhish> Q: Is there any way I can assign more computing power to use with the bitcoin server?
1144 2010-12-17 08:22:50 <Tester> like those registered dimms that have the smart chips
1145 2010-12-17 08:22:50 <Diablo-D3> and those are always fuck expensive
1146 2010-12-17 08:23:10 <lfm> put the ram on the cpu die to communicate faster
1147 2010-12-17 08:23:11 <Abhish> I have a machine that is almost entirely idle to be a shared file backup... the p4 goes unused.
1148 2010-12-17 08:23:30 <Diablo-D3> Abhish: cpu mining is pointless.
1149 2010-12-17 08:23:34 <lfm> p4 suck for bitcoin
1150 2010-12-17 08:23:47 <ArtForz> -for bitcoin
1151 2010-12-17 08:23:51 <Diablo-D3> hee
1152 2010-12-17 08:24:03 <lfm> theyr ok for a file server
1153 2010-12-17 08:24:05 bertodsera has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1154 2010-12-17 08:24:11 <Tester> never know one could get lucky
1155 2010-12-17 08:24:23 <ArtForz> p4s just flat out suck
1156 2010-12-17 08:24:35 bertodsera has joined
1157 2010-12-17 08:24:43 <lfm> well they do suck a lot of power
1158 2010-12-17 08:24:46 <ArtForz> yep
1159 2010-12-17 08:25:06 <ArtForz> which even with a lot of spindles makes quite a difference
1160 2010-12-17 08:25:12 <Tester> step rifght up grab the darts and have a throw at the moving target
1161 2010-12-17 08:25:21 <Abhish> Eh, its far from current... but it runs Linux nicely.
1162 2010-12-17 08:26:00 <ArtForz> my small home NAS currently has 20 drives
1163 2010-12-17 08:26:00 <lfm> they weren't too bad when p4 was new, what was that 2002?
1164 2010-12-17 08:26:20 <ArtForz> yeah, until Athlon64 came out
1165 2010-12-17 08:26:36 <ArtForz> but even compared to P3 P4 sucked
1166 2010-12-17 08:27:11 <lfm> I never really liked p3s myself
1167 2010-12-17 08:27:14 <ArtForz> wait, 22 drives
1168 2010-12-17 08:27:47 <ArtForz> forgot the 2 SSDs
1169 2010-12-17 08:27:52 <Tester> 22 drives getting ready to host that block chain in 2040
1170 2010-12-17 08:27:53 amiga4000 is now known as Amiga4000
1171 2010-12-17 08:28:08 <lfm> ssds arnt really disks tho are they
1172 2010-12-17 08:28:21 <ArtForz> well, they do act like disks
1173 2010-12-17 08:28:24 <Tester> bubble memory
1174 2010-12-17 08:28:45 <ArtForz> unless they're the PCIe kind, in which case they emulate disk+host controller
1175 2010-12-17 08:30:08 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1176 2010-12-17 08:31:10 <ArtForz> hopefully MRAM or FeRAM will replace NAND in a few years
1177 2010-12-17 08:31:58 <talso> 22 drives? how big is your chassis?
1178 2010-12-17 08:32:01 nova has joined
1179 2010-12-17 08:32:12 <talso> i thought my 12 hotswaps was huge ;)
1180 2010-12-17 08:32:15 <ArtForz> old server tower
1181 2010-12-17 08:32:40 <Tester> once had 36 servers in the basement and they heated the house
1182 2010-12-17 08:32:48 <Tester> those were the days
1183 2010-12-17 08:33:10 <Tester> 75Mhz x86
1184 2010-12-17 08:33:10 <Amiga4000> not needed at all
1185 2010-12-17 08:33:28 <ArtForz> iirc it originally was a dual P3 with 3 5-disk UW-SCSI backplanes
1186 2010-12-17 08:34:00 <Tester> 1u servers are now $89
1187 2010-12-17 08:34:18 <ArtForz> errr... no, not P3
1188 2010-12-17 08:34:22 <Tester> slightly blemished
1189 2010-12-17 08:34:22 <ArtForz> P2
1190 2010-12-17 08:34:25 <Amiga4000> in times of the cloud thats just pure overhead
1191 2010-12-17 08:34:47 <lfm> Amiga4000: some people dot trust the cload
1192 2010-12-17 08:35:17 <Tester> 1u with dual gigE
1193 2010-12-17 08:35:21 <Amiga4000> even if, whats the reason to have 30 server or >2TB at home?
1194 2010-12-17 08:35:39 <wump> movie, or porn collection? :P
1195 2010-12-17 08:35:42 <ArtForz> yep
1196 2010-12-17 08:35:45 <Amiga4000> freaks
1197 2010-12-17 08:35:56 <Tester> early ISP days
1198 2010-12-17 08:36:02 <Amiga4000> 2TB is more than enough for >1000 movies, which are streamed by the companies already
1199 2010-12-17 08:36:10 <lfm> run mprime for gimps
1200 2010-12-17 08:36:12 <Tester> 36 customers
1201 2010-12-17 08:36:21 <wump> I still remember the funny people in 1998, 'why would you ever need more then 20GB' :)
1202 2010-12-17 08:36:21 <Tester> one per server
1203 2010-12-17 08:36:22 <Amiga4000> a nice colo center is cheap, to
1204 2010-12-17 08:36:40 <ArtForz> yes, because everyone has 20+ Mbit pipes
1205 2010-12-17 08:36:43 <Amiga4000> I got >50TB here, to. But not at home.
1206 2010-12-17 08:37:19 <lfm> or bill gates famous "no one will ever need more than 640k" or IBM in the `950s the world will never need more than 20 computers
1207 2010-12-17 08:37:24 <Amiga4000> dsl is already at 50 MBit. usual DSL is 16MBit. And if you can pay the power and the ressources for a huge farm at home, you can pay the 10mbit line.
1208 2010-12-17 08:37:29 <Tester> fiber and two cable cos plus wireless and microwave to our colo
1209 2010-12-17 08:37:38 <Tester> plus DSL
1210 2010-12-17 08:37:41 <Tester> duh
1211 2010-12-17 08:37:44 <ArtForz> except when you live out in the boonies, and 3Mbit is all you get
1212 2010-12-17 08:38:03 <ArtForz> or pay $20k+ to get a dedicated line
1213 2010-12-17 08:38:05 <Amiga4000> you can get 100MBit nearly everywere. it just cost a bit more .-)
1214 2010-12-17 08:38:06 <wump> lfm: indeed, I arguments that are critical of technology because 'who would ever need it'...
1215 2010-12-17 08:38:46 <wump> lfm: usually made by people with little fantasy that don't understand the way technology evolves 
1216 2010-12-17 08:39:23 <Tester> build out in the 90s was interesting the big ISPs were not around
1217 2010-12-17 08:39:30 <wump> you will have 20TB of storage in your house at some point
1218 2010-12-17 08:39:39 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1219 2010-12-17 08:39:41 <wump> or, 50, or 100
1220 2010-12-17 08:39:42 <Tester> people think ATT and Comcast were givens
1221 2010-12-17 08:40:05 <Tester> they are noobs
1222 2010-12-17 08:40:21 <Amiga4000> wump: I doubt it will be soon.
1223 2010-12-17 08:40:45 <Tester> big iron control of the last mile etc
1224 2010-12-17 08:41:02 <Amiga4000> but future is future. currently the graphics cards are used to create bitcoins.
1225 2010-12-17 08:41:06 <Tester> commodity pricing
1226 2010-12-17 08:41:35 <Amiga4000> like in the good old times as amigas extra chips were used for computing or C64 floppy used as decoder, to
1227 2010-12-17 08:41:59 <wump> sure, the advance of technology might stop for some reason, but that's completely unrelated argument to 'what's the use?!?!?'
1228 2010-12-17 08:42:11 <Tester> or Atari which had a processor generate the video synch signals
1229 2010-12-17 08:42:14 <ArtForz> well, duh, 1541s CPU was faster than C64s
1230 2010-12-17 08:42:37 <Amiga4000> yes
1231 2010-12-17 08:42:59 <Tester> the NTSC stream was just bits
1232 2010-12-17 08:43:24 <lfm> um well not really
1233 2010-12-17 08:44:08 <lfm> Tester: the rgb signals were multi-level, not binary
1234 2010-12-17 08:44:25 <Tester> NTSC analog TV stuff
1235 2010-12-17 08:44:43 <lfm> wernt even rgb but intensity and croma or whatever
1236 2010-12-17 08:44:43 <Tester> they could do all that color phase stuff via processing
1237 2010-12-17 08:45:12 <Tester> and mess with the synch pulse shape
1238 2010-12-17 08:45:40 <lfm> well thats what ntsc is, national television standard color or whatever
1239 2010-12-17 08:46:00 <ArtForz> never the same color
1240 2010-12-17 08:46:21 <Tester> right - black and white mostly with color overwash
1241 2010-12-17 08:46:50 <Tester> like pen and ink and water colors
1242 2010-12-17 08:47:18 <lfm> all defined in terms of analog signals, the digital era used converters
1243 2010-12-17 08:47:46 <Tester> so now we have ATSC and HDMI
1244 2010-12-17 08:48:16 <Tester> ATSC is 188 ?? byte packets
1245 2010-12-17 08:48:39 <Tester> very complex
1246 2010-12-17 08:49:00 <wump> HDMI is pretty simple
1247 2010-12-17 08:49:03 <Amiga4000> DVB-T2
1248 2010-12-17 08:49:06 <Amiga4000> haha ;-)
1249 2010-12-17 08:49:08 <wump> ATSC I don't know
1250 2010-12-17 08:49:26 <Tester> ATSC even has a file download mode not sure it is used
1251 2010-12-17 08:49:33 <ArtForz> well, HDMI is pretty much DVI with some crap added
1252 2010-12-17 08:49:48 <wump> yeah it's still basiclly 'dump your bits'
1253 2010-12-17 08:49:53 <ArtForz> yep
1254 2010-12-17 08:49:59 <lfm> dvi with a different connectore to add sound
1255 2010-12-17 08:50:14 <ArtForz> and still retains VGA hsync/vcsync timing idiosyncracies
1256 2010-12-17 08:50:18 <Tester> HDMI 4 is scary bidirectional
1257 2010-12-17 08:50:26 <ArtForz> DP is more fun
1258 2010-12-17 08:50:30 <Tester> has LAN in it
1259 2010-12-17 08:50:32 <wump> I like the simplicity, I don't see why a more complicated packet protocol  would be needed, but yeah overdesign is a sign of the times
1260 2010-12-17 08:50:49 <ArtForz> "let's take DVI and add unrelated crap to the connector"
1261 2010-12-17 08:50:59 <Tester> so your TV can tell the gov what you are watching
1262 2010-12-17 08:51:01 <wump> design by committee, probably
1263 2010-12-17 08:51:08 <wump> let's add the kitchen sink too!
1264 2010-12-17 08:51:19 <wump> then why not go full TCP/IP..
1265 2010-12-17 08:51:37 <ArtForz> oh, and use a friction fit connector, what could possibly go wrong?
1266 2010-12-17 08:51:52 <Amiga4000> some big house communities do use multicast for TV already
1267 2010-12-17 08:51:52 <lfm> design by movie studios so they can sell you the same old crappy movies over and over and over agin
1268 2010-12-17 08:52:22 <ArtForz> oh yeah, and the fun that is HDCP
1269 2010-12-17 08:52:31 <Tester> DLNA is trending
1270 2010-12-17 08:52:34 <wump> lfm: yep
1271 2010-12-17 08:53:07 <Tester> have to add bitcoins to DLNA
1272 2010-12-17 08:53:13 <wump> the fun with HDCP is that it's cracked already, isn't it?
1273 2010-12-17 08:53:17 <ArtForz> yep
1274 2010-12-17 08:53:23 <ArtForz> and completely fucking pointless
1275 2010-12-17 08:53:47 <ArtForz> most displays have the HDCP decryption integrated in the HDMI transceiver
1276 2010-12-17 08:54:00 <joe_1> so the TV tells the government what we're watching?
1277 2010-12-17 08:54:03 <ArtForz> = just grab the data between transceiver and image processor
1278 2010-12-17 08:54:19 <Tester> HDMI 4 has a LAN
1279 2010-12-17 08:54:28 <joe_1> does it tell the government what we're doing while we're watching?
1280 2010-12-17 08:54:31 <Tester> HDMI 4 is two way
1281 2010-12-17 08:54:46 <wump> ArtForz: yep, it's always the same shit with DRM, they never learn :)
1282 2010-12-17 08:55:06 <ArtForz> yup, if you can watch it, you can record it (duh)
1283 2010-12-17 08:55:26 <wump> let's  'encrypt something and embed the key'!
1284 2010-12-17 08:55:29 <lfm> Tester: I heard the lan was just yet another connector version with ethernet signals on new wires
1285 2010-12-17 08:55:34 <ArtForz> yep
1286 2010-12-17 08:55:36 <joe_1> digital rights are not compatible with the first amendment
1287 2010-12-17 08:56:07 <ArtForz> you can make halfways secure DRM, but that involves at least tamper-evident devices
1288 2010-12-17 08:56:10 <wump> joe_1: a bidirectional TV that watches you, hmm sounds Orwellian :)
1289 2010-12-17 08:56:24 <ArtForz> *cue the in soviet russia jokes*
1290 2010-12-17 08:56:32 <joe_1> i think hillary did that a couple years ago, so by now all the new tv's watch us now
1291 2010-12-17 08:56:33 <wump> at least it's still allowed to turn your TV off
1292 2010-12-17 08:56:42 <wump> :P
1293 2010-12-17 08:57:03 <lfm> not ussr, 1984 big brother
1294 2010-12-17 08:57:15 <Tester> there is a video of a guy taking apart those digital transition boxes and he shows they have cameras in them
1295 2010-12-17 08:57:25 <ArtForz> yes, but "tv watches you" I just asking for a soviet russia joke
1296 2010-12-17 08:57:27 <ArtForz> *is
1297 2010-12-17 08:57:28 <wump> with the kinect+xbox they can even make a 3d model of your living room with you in it
1298 2010-12-17 08:57:32 <wump> :D
1299 2010-12-17 08:58:09 <Tester> one digital converter here turns off when there is no motion in front of it for some amount of time
1300 2010-12-17 08:58:09 <wump> Tester: huh, cameras inside the boxes?
1301 2010-12-17 08:58:14 <lfm> your laptop webcam is already watching you. didnt you hear about that school
1302 2010-12-17 08:58:17 <joe_1> the government has a right to know what we do in our living rooms.
1303 2010-12-17 08:58:49 <Tester> may be some sort of green thing
1304 2010-12-17 08:58:50 <wump> lfm: I don't use the webcam of mine so I stickered it :P
1305 2010-12-17 08:58:56 <Amiga4000> kinect is kinda limited, but cheap
1306 2010-12-17 08:59:13 <lfm> wump they will make that illegal
1307 2010-12-17 08:59:30 <Tester> but those converter boxes have no back link
1308 2010-12-17 08:59:34 <wump> yeah yeah I know, only the political elites will be allowed to turn off the screen/cameras, I've read 1984 too :)
1309 2010-12-17 08:59:52 <wump> seems like politicians use it as 101 manual though
1310 2010-12-17 08:59:56 <lfm> tester if you do pay-per-view then it has back channel
1311 2010-12-17 09:00:12 <Tester> yeah like a cable box
1312 2010-12-17 09:00:22 <Tester> not the cheap $40 things
1313 2010-12-17 09:00:29 <Tester> those FCC boxes
1314 2010-12-17 09:00:57 <lfm> and satellite boxes need a phone plug and line
1315 2010-12-17 09:01:19 <ArtForz> not around here
1316 2010-12-17 09:01:55 <lfm> for payper view and for updateing your subscriptoion, if you have pirate box you dont
1317 2010-12-17 09:02:13 <Tester> those are on cable with 2way
1318 2010-12-17 09:02:24 <ArtForz> yeah, we dont generally have that around here
1319 2010-12-17 09:02:56 <Tester> DLNA will be a game changer to some degree
1320 2010-12-17 09:02:59 <ArtForz> boxes are simple+cheap 1-way designs
1321 2010-12-17 09:03:02 <joe_1> i support the government surveilling our homes. i have nothing to hide. plus, people could be raping children in their homes. why should they be able to get away with it just because they're in their home? put a camera in everyone's home.
1322 2010-12-17 09:03:08 <wump> I use DVB-T to watch TV, don't think that can be bidirecitional
1323 2010-12-17 09:03:28 <ArtForz> PPV is done via keys crypted to subscribers smartcard public key
1324 2010-12-17 09:04:12 <ArtForz> yep, that means you generally have to use a internet-connected PC/smartphone/... to order PPV
1325 2010-12-17 09:04:20 <lfm> joe_1: you are the guy without sin who gets to throw the first stone eh?
1326 2010-12-17 09:04:32 <joe_1> yes
1327 2010-12-17 09:04:37 <wump> joe_1: yes and we should all be naked so they can see that we don't carry bombs and guns
1328 2010-12-17 09:04:57 <Tester> saw that lady went to the airport almost naked
1329 2010-12-17 09:04:57 <lfm> wump we are now in airport scanner
1330 2010-12-17 09:04:59 <joe_1> why not?
1331 2010-12-17 09:05:10 <Tester> in a trench coat
1332 2010-12-17 09:05:20 <wump> oh true, we don't even have to get naked anymore, they can see us naked any time they like
1333 2010-12-17 09:05:21 <wump> fun!
1334 2010-12-17 09:05:22 <Tester> in a wheel chair
1335 2010-12-17 09:05:37 <joe_1> plus, clothing allows people to express fringe viewpoints that are offensive to different cultures, so they don't need to be wearing clothes anyway.
1336 2010-12-17 09:05:39 <Tester> very bizzare
1337 2010-12-17 09:05:58 <lfm> saw one stripped down to bikini at the security checkpoint for her patdown
1338 2010-12-17 09:05:59 <wump> joe_1: good point!
1339 2010-12-17 09:06:31 <Tester> the lady in the wheel chair missed her flight they spent an hour with her
1340 2010-12-17 09:07:17 <wump> huh, didn't she help them by already being naked
1341 2010-12-17 09:07:29 <Tester> she was almost naked
1342 2010-12-17 09:07:34 <wump> that's efficiency! 
1343 2010-12-17 09:07:44 <lfm> joe so religions that say you must cover your head from view of god are wrong? like catholic church for women back a century ago, still do for nuns habits
1344 2010-12-17 09:08:06 <wump> yes, covering up your body is a sin, you might hide something
1345 2010-12-17 09:08:20 <wump> :P
1346 2010-12-17 09:08:48 <wump> such as hair, for example
1347 2010-12-17 09:09:12 <lfm> yes must shave all heads, you might hide something in there
1348 2010-12-17 09:09:14 <Tester> maybe they were looking to see if she was carrying bitcoins ?
1349 2010-12-17 09:09:17 <da2ce7> LOL
1350 2010-12-17 09:09:56 <lfm> and you have to take an enima at checkpoints to flush out what you hide there
1351 2010-12-17 09:10:12 <da2ce7> now we need TSA porn!
1352 2010-12-17 09:10:34 <wump> Tester: hah, I wonder how those would show up on the TSA scanner
1353 2010-12-17 09:10:54 <Tester> just like egold they glow
1354 2010-12-17 09:11:38 <da2ce7> "I wish I was so hairy that I didn't need cloths, then when I have a shower, I do my washing also!"
1355 2010-12-17 09:12:23 <wump> but yeah the next phase will be full x-ray scanners, or MRI, so they can look inside your body as well
1356 2010-12-17 09:13:05 <wump> I mean those breast implants might well be bombs!
1357 2010-12-17 09:13:18 <da2ce7> boomb, cha!
1358 2010-12-17 09:20:26 foxstrike has joined
1359 2010-12-17 09:24:42 Tester has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1360 2010-12-17 09:27:04 RazielZ has joined
1361 2010-12-17 09:33:28 TD[away] is now known as TD
1362 2010-12-17 09:43:04 <Grantt> ;;bc,stats
1363 2010-12-17 09:43:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98025 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 758 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 12 hours, 1 minute, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14328.99648022
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1375 2010-12-17 10:01:44 Grantt has quit ()
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1380 2010-12-17 10:24:40 devon_hillard_ is now known as devon_hillard
1381 2010-12-17 10:33:30 grondilu has joined
1382 2010-12-17 10:34:49 <grondilu> nanotube: please proceed to the password change.  I'll feel more comfortable once you do.
1383 2010-12-17 10:36:37 <MT`AwAy> grondilu: hey, mind talking a bit in private?
1384 2010-12-17 10:36:47 Xunie has quit (Quit: "You did become a terrorist when they sent her to your town." said Ange. "So I did," I said)
1385 2010-12-17 10:37:23 <grondilu> MT`AwAy: ok, sorry
1386 2010-12-17 10:37:31 <MT`AwAy> sorry ?
1387 2010-12-17 10:37:32 <MT`AwAy> why?
1388 2010-12-17 10:38:11 <T_X> hmm, now that you've been talking about airports an hour ago... would anyone of you declare 10'000BTC on an encrypted micro-sd card at the customs?
1389 2010-12-17 10:38:12 slush_cz has joined
1390 2010-12-17 10:39:04 <T_X> actually, I'm thinking about maybe doing it, I'd be very curious about their faces :P
1391 2010-12-17 10:39:26 <MT`AwAy> T_X: I probably would with a smaller amount, just to have them think
1392 2010-12-17 10:39:51 <Granttt> declare 10k btc ?
1393 2010-12-17 10:39:59 <Granttt> you dont declare cash
1394 2010-12-17 10:40:04 <T_X> sure you do!
1395 2010-12-17 10:40:16 <T_X> if it's over 1000EUR or something in that range
1396 2010-12-17 10:40:22 <MT`AwAy> Granttt: starting a given amount you have to declare cash
1397 2010-12-17 10:40:35 <MT`AwAy> the exact amount depends on the country you're leaving and the county you're going to
1398 2010-12-17 10:40:51 <T_X> yep
1399 2010-12-17 10:41:05 <doublec> $10,000 USD for travel into the US iirc
1400 2010-12-17 10:41:17 <T_X> but I'm really wondering - I guess I'd end up explaining bitcoin for 5 hours at the airport or so
1401 2010-12-17 10:41:18 <doublec> for NZ os $10,000 NZD when entering the country
1402 2010-12-17 10:41:48 <T_X> doublec: wasn't it less?
1403 2010-12-17 10:41:54 <T_X> :)
1404 2010-12-17 10:41:59 <Granttt> make sure to also give the customs a link to the forum on the heroin store idea then ;)
1405 2010-12-17 10:42:26 <T_X> I think I had to declare my laptop because it was relatively new and over 1000€ (~2000 NZD)
1406 2010-12-17 10:42:40 <T_X> Granttt: lol, hehe
1407 2010-12-17 10:43:08 <wump> and you end up paying an import tax over it probably?
1408 2010-12-17 10:43:12 <MT`AwAy> you also have to declare gold
1409 2010-12-17 10:43:16 <MT`AwAy> and other similar stuff
1410 2010-12-17 10:43:37 <T_X> and then if it's getting too hot and complicated, could I just say: "wups, sorry, I mistook that micro-sd card with the my other one, this one has just random data on it, the 10k BTC are still at home"
1411 2010-12-17 10:43:52 <T_X> I guess they might not like that, right :)?
1412 2010-12-17 10:43:58 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1413 2010-12-17 10:44:06 <MT`AwAy> T_X: you could also encrypt your wallet.dat and e-mail it to yourself
1414 2010-12-17 10:44:07 <T_X> wump: how much taxes would I have to pay?
1415 2010-12-17 10:44:17 <doublec> I don't think messing with the minds of the people in charge of the legal grey area that is international borders is a good idea
1416 2010-12-17 10:44:21 <wump> hehe, I would be pretty scared of doing that :)
1417 2010-12-17 10:44:58 <wump> T_X: I don't know, depends on the country/border, but you have to be careful taking large amount of any sorts of cash
1418 2010-12-17 10:45:20 <wump> indeed doublec, they're generally not people with a sense of humour
1419 2010-12-17 10:45:20 <T_X> yeah, but how can they be sure how much cash the BTC are in their currency exactly?
1420 2010-12-17 10:45:40 <ArtForz> and since when do you have to declare ECDSA keypairs? :P
1421 2010-12-17 10:45:44 <wump> well in worst case they take it all, then take 5 years to research it
1422 2010-12-17 10:46:13 <wump> then come up with some arbitrary formula :P
1423 2010-12-17 10:47:18 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: the ECC private key is just 32 random bytes, you could store them somewhere without context, nobody can tell those are used for ECDSA
1424 2010-12-17 10:47:24 <wump> in the case of bitcoins it's stranger, though, because the coins aren't only stored in the wallet, they are in the keychain which is international public domain
1425 2010-12-17 10:47:30 <ArtForz> yep
1426 2010-12-17 10:47:32 <wump> keychain->blockchain
1427 2010-12-17 10:47:50 <MT`AwAy> wump: the wallet only contain the keys to your coins :D
1428 2010-12-17 10:48:23 <wump> anyone can check how many coins are in your wallet, though, even without your keys
1429 2010-12-17 10:48:29 <wump> that's pretty scary with customs :)
1430 2010-12-17 10:48:34 <ArtForz> errr... no
1431 2010-12-17 10:48:56 <wump> they just fire up bitcoin block explorer.. lol
1432 2010-12-17 10:49:12 <[Noodles]> and how do they know my addresses?
1433 2010-12-17 10:49:15 <ArtForz> you have  no clue what my keys are, which coins are mine?
1434 2010-12-17 10:49:22 <wump> hm that's true
1435 2010-12-17 10:49:42 <MT`AwAy> wump: that's the point
1436 2010-12-17 10:49:42 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1437 2010-12-17 10:49:43 <wump> you need the public keys, not the private ones
1438 2010-12-17 10:50:18 <wump> then again, a bitcoin address is not *in*  a country
1439 2010-12-17 10:50:24 <ArtForz> and public keys are just EC G*private_key
1440 2010-12-17 10:50:56 <wump> yeah, I would definitly avoid talking about this with customs
1441 2010-12-17 10:51:09 <MT`AwAy> most (if not all) pk crypto system allows computing the public key from the private key
1442 2010-12-17 10:51:14 <ArtForz> yep
1443 2010-12-17 10:52:03 <wump> MT`AwAy: isn't that because what's called the private key is generally a blob that contanis all parameters, including the public key?
1444 2010-12-17 10:52:22 <MT`AwAy> wump: for ECDSA 256, the private key only contains 32 random bytes
1445 2010-12-17 10:52:24 <ArtForz> for ECDSA the private key is really just a random 256 bit integer
1446 2010-12-17 10:52:30 <MT`AwAy> all the parameters are public
1447 2010-12-17 10:52:38 <MT`AwAy> including G, a, b, prime, etc
1448 2010-12-17 10:52:49 <wump> right, I don't know the details, even RSA has been a while ago
1449 2010-12-17 10:53:47 <MT`AwAy> my bitcoin wallet also contains a RSA keypair to allow password protection of my bitcoin private keys :p
1450 2010-12-17 10:54:22 <wump> I'm pretty good at math but crypto gives me headaches, it's very interesting though
1451 2010-12-17 10:55:44 <TD> what data do you need in order to sign a transaction? i'm wondering what the absolute minimum setup is to insert a transaction into the network
1452 2010-12-17 10:55:48 <wump> why do you use an assymetric cipher to password protect a keypair?
1453 2010-12-17 10:55:54 <TD> the ECDSA key pair is one
1454 2010-12-17 10:56:01 <TD> anything else ?
1455 2010-12-17 10:56:03 <wump> only the key afaik
1456 2010-12-17 10:56:06 <MT`AwAy> TD: you only need the ECDSA private key, and a connection to at least one node
1457 2010-12-17 10:56:10 <TD> ok, thanks
1458 2010-12-17 10:56:22 <MT`AwAy> (oh, and of course you need the curve parameters)
1459 2010-12-17 10:56:25 <TD> what else does the wallet contain? i was looking at the code last night, seems to be mostly address book and various keys
1460 2010-12-17 10:56:41 <wump> it contains the keys of all your addresses, and all your transactions
1461 2010-12-17 10:56:42 <TD> and a set of transactions ?
1462 2010-12-17 10:56:47 <TD> ok
1463 2010-12-17 10:56:48 <MT`AwAy> TD: if you wish to know what your wallet contains, db4.7_dump ~/.bitcoin/wallet.dat
1464 2010-12-17 10:57:03 <TD> thanks
1465 2010-12-17 10:57:16 <MT`AwAy> (it'll throw lots of hex stuff at you)
1466 2010-12-17 10:57:34 <TD> storage of the transactions is an optimization, i take it .... to avoid having to parse the entire block chain to figure out what to show in the gui
1467 2010-12-17 10:57:39 <wump> it also contains 'pool' records, but I'm not exactly sure what they are
1468 2010-12-17 10:57:42 <TD> as in ... strictly speaking it's optional?
1469 2010-12-17 10:57:49 <TD> yes, the key pool
1470 2010-12-17 10:57:51 <wump> key, tx, name are obvious
1471 2010-12-17 10:58:13 <TD> sounds like maybe generating the keys could take a while so it caches them ?
1472 2010-12-17 10:58:18 <TD> not sure. need to study the code more
1473 2010-12-17 10:58:37 <ArtForz> keypool contains 100 pregernerated keys
1474 2010-12-17 10:58:51 <ArtForz> so a wallet backup is good for the next 100 keys you use
1475 2010-12-17 10:59:04 <wump> cool!
1476 2010-12-17 10:59:45 <ArtForz> otherwise you'd have to back up wallet after every generation and sending
1477 2010-12-17 11:00:41 <wump> yes, at least every time you give someone a new address to send to
1478 2010-12-17 11:00:54 <TD> the key you sign the transactions with changes every time you send coins?
1479 2010-12-17 11:01:07 <MT`AwAy> generating ECDSA private keys is usually quite fast
1480 2010-12-17 11:01:20 m0mchil has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1481 2010-12-17 11:01:29 <ArtForz> the key used for change-to-self is new
1482 2010-12-17 11:01:34 <MT`AwAy> [19:59:22] <TD> the key you sign the transactions with changes every time you send coins? <- it depends "where" your coins "are"
1483 2010-12-17 11:01:35 <TD> ah, right. the obfuscation
1484 2010-12-17 11:01:46 <wump> yes it seems much faster than generating RSA or DSA keys
1485 2010-12-17 11:01:59 <TD> makes sense
1486 2010-12-17 11:02:03 <ArtForz> because generating a ECDSA key is very easy
1487 2010-12-17 11:02:19 <MT`AwAy> you don't need a prime for ECDSA
1488 2010-12-17 11:02:22 <wump> every value is valid?
1489 2010-12-17 11:02:24 <MT`AwAy> just 256 bits of random data
1490 2010-12-17 11:02:30 <MT`AwAy> any value can be a private key
1491 2010-12-17 11:02:32 <ArtForz> grab 256 bits from a secure RNG, there's your private key
1492 2010-12-17 11:02:36 <TD> that's a pretty useful property
1493 2010-12-17 11:02:49 <TD> so your key could also be a SHA256 of a password
1494 2010-12-17 11:02:49 <ArtForz> EC_mult with G, theres the public key
1495 2010-12-17 11:03:06 <wump> ah yes which also means the keys can be much shorter than with RSA
1496 2010-12-17 11:03:14 <ArtForz> yep
1497 2010-12-17 11:03:19 <MT`AwAy> wump: they are ;)
1498 2010-12-17 11:03:30 <ArtForz> 256 bit EC is about as secure as 128 bits symmetric
1499 2010-12-17 11:03:45 <UukGoblin> is ECDSA any good for encryption, or does it only do signing?
1500 2010-12-17 11:04:04 <ArtForz> you can do encryption as well
1501 2010-12-17 11:04:08 kermit has joined
1502 2010-12-17 11:04:52 <ArtForz> same way you'd do with RSA, use a symmetric cipher for data and crypt the symmetric key with the public key
1503 2010-12-17 11:05:03 <MT`AwAy> ECIES
1504 2010-12-17 11:05:26 <MT`AwAy> ECDSA is for signature, ECIES is for encryption
1505 2010-12-17 11:05:32 <wump> make sure that you have no backdoors in your encryption code though :P
1506 2010-12-17 11:05:32 <ArtForz> yeah
1507 2010-12-17 11:05:49 <ArtForz> writing a EC library from scratch isnt that hard
1508 2010-12-17 11:05:58 <MT`AwAy> encryption is currently not used in bitcoin :)
1509 2010-12-17 11:06:08 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: can you write one for me in C ?
1510 2010-12-17 11:06:21 <wump> the NSA would probably like to write one for you ;)
1511 2010-12-17 11:06:34 <ArtForz> implemented custom EC lib and pollards rho a few years back to break a ECDSA80
1512 2010-12-17 11:07:04 <wump> or maybe there's one in openbsd that you can use already :)
1513 2010-12-17 11:07:17 noagendamarket has joined
1514 2010-12-17 11:07:25 <ArtForz> now who uses 80 bits ECDSA, it's obviously not secure
1515 2010-12-17 11:07:39 <wump> 80 bits is cetainly in the brute force range these days
1516 2010-12-17 11:07:52 <ArtForz> especially as 80 bits EC is about == 40 bits symmetric
1517 2010-12-17 11:08:00 <ArtForz> = took a few days on a small cluster
1518 2010-12-17 11:08:21 <ArtForz> was used for signing firmware updates
1519 2010-12-17 11:08:33 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, the words "small" and "cluster" sound suspicious when you use them in the same sentence
1520 2010-12-17 11:08:45 <wump> right, and these days with GPUs it's even simpler
1521 2010-12-17 11:09:06 <ArtForz> iirc about 100 P3-667s
1522 2010-12-17 11:09:07 <wump> then again, for something like firmware updates it's OK I guess, it doesn't have to be perfect security just stop most people
1523 2010-12-17 11:09:37 <ArtForz> yeah, but it's a lousy tradeoff
1524 2010-12-17 11:10:18 <ArtForz> kinda common in the embedded segment though
1525 2010-12-17 11:10:21 <ArtForz> hardware engineers + beancounters = crappy crypto
1526 2010-12-17 11:10:42 <wump> yeah
1527 2010-12-17 11:10:49 <wump> and you can never trust hardware crypto anyway
1528 2010-12-17 11:11:10 <wump> it's hard enough with software to check whether it is safe/secure
1529 2010-12-17 11:12:13 <wump> and trusting hardware engineers to get crypto right.. yeah, that's a big gamble :)
1530 2010-12-17 11:17:53 <cosurgi> hmmm... DiabloMiner-Linux.sh is running for three days already, at 213259 khash/sec and still nothing.
1531 2010-12-17 11:18:05 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 213259
1532 2010-12-17 11:18:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 213259 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 20 hours, 32 minutes, and 32 seconds
1533 2010-12-17 11:18:16 <cosurgi> apparently I have no luck.
1534 2010-12-17 11:18:35 <cosurgi> how can I join DiabloMiner-Linux.sh to mining pool ?
1535 2010-12-17 11:19:57 ebel has joined
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1537 2010-12-17 11:20:02 ebel has joined
1538 2010-12-17 11:21:22 <[Noodles]> cosurgi: DiabloMiner-XXX -u <login>.<workerID> -p <password> -o mining.bitcoin.cz -r 8332
1539 2010-12-17 11:23:38 <da2ce7> slush_cz, have you started the proxy yet?
1540 2010-12-17 11:25:55 <cosurgi> noagendamarket:  <login> and <password> are the same as before, right? What is .<workerID> ? My bitcoin account address for which I want to receive generated bitcoins?
1541 2010-12-17 11:26:31 <noagendamarket> I think so
1542 2010-12-17 11:26:32 <cosurgi> oops.
1543 2010-12-17 11:26:40 <cosurgi> I was referring to [Noodles]
1544 2010-12-17 11:26:42 <cosurgi> :)
1545 2010-12-17 11:26:50 <cosurgi> [Noodles]:  <login> and <password> are the same as before, right? What is .<workerID> ? My bitcoin account address for which I want to receive generated bitcoins?
1546 2010-12-17 11:26:53 <cosurgi> sorry :)
1547 2010-12-17 11:27:03 <doublec> workedID is the id you registered for the worker
1548 2010-12-17 11:27:18 <Granttt> username.workerid yes
1549 2010-12-17 11:27:22 <doublec> at mining.bitcoin.cz
1550 2010-12-17 11:27:39 <cosurgi> doublec: aha! I need to register there? thanks, I'm looking.
1551 2010-12-17 11:27:51 * KwukDuck is confused with the split sharing
1552 2010-12-17 11:28:37 <KwukDuck> everybody is working on the same block right?
1553 2010-12-17 11:28:42 <doublec> yes
1554 2010-12-17 11:28:58 <da2ce7> same block number, everyone will generate a block that is 'differnt'
1555 2010-12-17 11:29:18 <KwukDuck> so, if a block is solved in the round where both my pc's were mining, both pc's should get the right share from that round
1556 2010-12-17 11:29:31 <doublec> you would expect so, yes
1557 2010-12-17 11:29:47 <doublec> at any time did you run multiple miner instances using the same login?
1558 2010-12-17 11:29:48 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1559 2010-12-17 11:29:50 <da2ce7> yes, if the other peers accept your block as valid.
1560 2010-12-17 11:29:52 <KwukDuck> no
1561 2010-12-17 11:30:01 <doublec> what about multiple threads?
1562 2010-12-17 11:30:03 <KwukDuck> using different logins for both pc's
1563 2010-12-17 11:30:12 <KwukDuck> no single instance
1564 2010-12-17 11:30:39 <doublec> I mean did you run one instance but that instance used more than one core of your PC
1565 2010-12-17 11:30:47 <KwukDuck> and the share count shows properly in the profile
1566 2010-12-17 11:30:53 <doublec> ok
1567 2010-12-17 11:31:15 <KwukDuck> 250 for the slow one, 550 for the fast one
1568 2010-12-17 11:31:15 <da2ce7> the bitcoin client can handel as many miners that you ask of it, however http://mining.bitcoin.cz needs a new login for every miner.
1569 2010-12-17 11:31:59 <doublec> KwukDuck, it does sound odd that you didn't get your full amount
1570 2010-12-17 11:32:38 <KwukDuck> it's not just a little off ...
1571 2010-12-17 11:32:50 <KwukDuck> only by a factor 1000 xD
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1576 2010-12-17 11:49:54 <slush_cz> da2ce7: Proxy not ready yet. I made changes in server yesterday + tests and today I will start with proxy itself
1577 2010-12-17 11:50:29 <slush_cz> for all - each miner instance (each piece of software, not computer!) needs separate worker id
1578 2010-12-17 11:50:57 <cosurgi> doublec: question about wallet address - can I use an address which does not belong to the running instance? I mean - I  have a secure/backupped wallet on some other PC, and I would like to use that address.
1579 2010-12-17 11:50:57 <slush_cz> if you have multicore GPU and run one worker on it, it is OK
1580 2010-12-17 11:51:18 <doublec> cosurgi, do you mean for the pool?
1581 2010-12-17 11:51:49 <cosurgi> doublec: yes
1582 2010-12-17 11:52:14 <cosurgi> doublec: the wallet address for getting my share, when block is solved.
1583 2010-12-17 11:52:18 <doublec> cosurgi, If you do you can't get the coins until you use that wallet in a running instance
1584 2010-12-17 11:52:25 <KwukDuck> slush, i just sent you an email, didnt see you were on here :)
1585 2010-12-17 11:52:40 <slush_cz> KwukDuck: No email yet
1586 2010-12-17 11:52:44 <slush_cz> do you mean PM?
1587 2010-12-17 11:53:06 <KwukDuck> no, email
1588 2010-12-17 11:53:10 <cosurgi> doublec: you mean - the secure wallet must be connected to a running bitcoind. But it doesn't have to be a pool participant?
1589 2010-12-17 11:53:16 <cosurgi> heh, hard to explain :)
1590 2010-12-17 11:53:20 <KwukDuck> anyway, it seems my share was calculated inproperly
1591 2010-12-17 11:53:33 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: it shouldn't have to
1592 2010-12-17 11:53:37 <doublec> cosurgi, pool participants don't have wallets
1593 2010-12-17 11:53:44 <cosurgi> that secure wallet is on a very slow machine.
1594 2010-12-17 11:53:49 <doublec> they're remote miners. They never touch your wallet.
1595 2010-12-17 11:54:06 <doublec> They don' t interact with your running bitcoind in any way
1596 2010-12-17 11:54:42 <cosurgi> ok, so I don't even need to run bitcoind. I'm starting to see it
1597 2010-12-17 11:54:59 <doublec> correct
1598 2010-12-17 11:55:10 <slush_cz> KwukDuck: just read forum thread. is now everything OK? You had wrong address
1599 2010-12-17 11:56:13 <cosurgi> so, to receive coins, I must run locally my personal bitcoin, which uses that secure wallet? But I want to run it like: `./bitcoind -gen=0` because that PC is very slow. So it will just donwload blocks from peers, and help keeping nodes connected (high bandwidth, low CPU power, external 8333 port).
1600 2010-12-17 11:56:13 <KwukDuck> slush, the miner works fine yes, my current issue is explained on page 7
1601 2010-12-17 11:56:47 <doublec> cosurgi, yes. run the bitcoind with gen=0 when you want to collect your coins
1602 2010-12-17 11:56:58 <cosurgi> ok. thank you :)
1603 2010-12-17 11:57:05 <doublec> it doesn't need to be running all the time too
1604 2010-12-17 11:57:10 <MT`AwAy> cosurgi: you don't need to run it at the same time :)
1605 2010-12-17 11:57:14 <MT`AwAy> it'll catch up from the block chain
1606 2010-12-17 11:57:20 <doublec> You'll get any coins sent to your address next time you run it and it catches up
1607 2010-12-17 12:03:17 <slush_cz> cosurgi: Or you can register mybitcoin.com and shut client down
1608 2010-12-17 12:10:53 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1609 2010-12-17 12:11:03 <cosurgi> ok, thank you. registering now... :)
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1614 2010-12-17 12:25:51 altamic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1615 2010-12-17 12:26:06 altamic has joined
1616 2010-12-17 12:42:50 * MT`AwAy wonders who Decker.Christian is
1617 2010-12-17 12:46:32 <cosurgi> wow. I think it works.
1618 2010-12-17 12:46:39 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 13:43:59] Block 5 found on Cypress (#1)
1619 2010-12-17 12:46:40 <cosurgi> 213795 khash/sec
1620 2010-12-17 12:46:48 <cosurgi> pooled mining, I mean.
1621 2010-12-17 12:46:53 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 13:45:14] Block 6 found on Cypress (#1)
1622 2010-12-17 12:46:54 <cosurgi> wow.
1623 2010-12-17 12:47:00 <slush_cz> correct. every "block found" is one share for your worker
1624 2010-12-17 12:47:00 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1625 2010-12-17 12:47:10 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 13:45:27] Block 7 found on Cypress (#1)
1626 2010-12-17 12:47:16 <cosurgi> wow, it's crazy fast
1627 2010-12-17 12:47:35 <slush_cz> i have dynamic targets in my TODO already
1628 2010-12-17 12:47:45 <slush_cz> currently target must be something reasonable also for CPU miners...
1629 2010-12-17 12:47:46 <cosurgi> what are dynamic targets?
1630 2010-12-17 12:48:04 Satmaster has joined
1631 2010-12-17 12:48:11 <slush_cz> independent targets for every worker
1632 2010-12-17 12:48:12 <cosurgi> ah, I see. GPUs are overpowering CPUs, and flood network bandwidth with solved blocks
1633 2010-12-17 12:48:19 <slush_cz> and recounting unified 'share' on server
1634 2010-12-17 12:48:49 <slush_cz> yes. current speed is a little much for strong cards, but it takes more than hour for normal CPU ;)
1635 2010-12-17 12:49:09 <slush_cz> and from my tests on 5970 low target does not affect hashrate too much
1636 2010-12-17 12:49:16 <slush_cz> But of course, higher target will be better
1637 2010-12-17 12:50:43 <cosurgi> the major problme here is to weight difficulties correctly, so that everyone gets a correct share of those 50 BTCs
1638 2010-12-17 12:51:43 <cosurgi> time to eat sth
1639 2010-12-17 12:52:08 <slush_cz> of course, but it isn't too hard
1640 2010-12-17 12:53:29 <slush_cz> you already see 'difficulty' for workers in profile page. Currently it is 32. Moving difficulty to 33 leads to 2x harder job, so 2x large share per solved job
1641 2010-12-17 13:01:02 <Satmaster> ;;bc,stats
1642 2010-12-17 13:01:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98048 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 735 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 8 hours, 43 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14331.96103753
1643 2010-12-17 13:05:46 <lfm> difficulty is set so blocks tend to be produced at same rate of 10 blocks/hour
1644 2010-12-17 13:06:02 <MT`AwAy> anyone knows how the bitcoin "version" int is formatted?
1645 2010-12-17 13:06:10 <MT`AwAy> (well, how it /was/ formatted)
1646 2010-12-17 13:06:17 <lfm> difficulty does not effect khash/s at all
1647 2010-12-17 13:06:42 <lfm> which version?
1648 2010-12-17 13:06:45 <ArtForz> errr... yes, it does
1649 2010-12-17 13:07:16 <MT`AwAy> lfm: for example now we have 31900, but in the code I see references to 209 106 etc
1650 2010-12-17 13:07:37 <ArtForz> old was major * 100 + minor
1651 2010-12-17 13:07:48 <MT`AwAy> ok
1652 2010-12-17 13:07:49 <lfm> if your machine does 100 khas/s at difficulty 100 it will still do 100 khash/s at difficulty 1000
1653 2010-12-17 13:07:50 <ArtForz> new is major * 10000 + minor * 100 + revision
1654 2010-12-17 13:07:57 <MT`AwAy> so if < 10000, it's major*100+minor
1655 2010-12-17 13:08:04 <ArtForz> yep
1656 2010-12-17 13:08:06 * MT`AwAy writes function getVersionStr()
1657 2010-12-17 13:08:13 <KwukDuck> slush_cz, the reward is sent only if >1.0 btc?
1658 2010-12-17 13:09:00 <lfm> MT`AwAy: ok current diff 31900 means version 0.,3.19 the last byte is sometimes used for minor updates that are not woidely released
1659 2010-12-17 13:09:14 <ArtForz> 31900 = 0.3.19
1660 2010-12-17 13:09:21 <MT`AwAy> lfm: I know the *current* rule, I was wondering about the previous one
1661 2010-12-17 13:09:30 <ArtForz> 319 = 0.3.19
1662 2010-12-17 13:09:46 <ArtForz> and revisions went into the extraversionstring or whatever its called
1663 2010-12-17 13:09:49 <lfm> mt not sure of details but the version numbers always increase, never decrease
1664 2010-12-17 13:10:03 <doublec> KwukDuck, there's a threshold setting you set that says what the limit for the send is
1665 2010-12-17 13:10:15 <MT`AwAy> lfm: yep, but were not encoded the same before
1666 2010-12-17 13:10:40 <lfm> MT`AwAy: i guess not, dunno why, just changed I guess
1667 2010-12-17 13:10:46 Anti-Social_ has joined
1668 2010-12-17 13:11:00 <MT`AwAy> well anyway I understand now, thanks everyone :)
1669 2010-12-17 13:11:23 <KwukDuck> doublec, thanks :)
1670 2010-12-17 13:11:59 <MT`AwAy> string(10) "0.3.19[.0]"
1671 2010-12-17 13:13:55 <slush_cz> quite hard block. 18000 shares and still nothing :(
1672 2010-12-17 13:14:22 <lfm> slush_cz: not hard unlucky
1673 2010-12-17 13:15:17 <ArtForz> randomness is random
1674 2010-12-17 13:15:32 dwdollar1 has joined
1675 2010-12-17 13:16:04 <slush_cz> we will see. Still nothing extreme, but first three blocks came quickly :)
1676 2010-12-17 13:16:31 <doublec> wait till you get "it's taking too long, the server must be stealing generated coins and not reporting them" emails
1677 2010-12-17 13:16:33 <doublec> like I was getting
1678 2010-12-17 13:16:37 <lfm> slush_cz: yes, lucky == sooner, unlucky == later
1679 2010-12-17 13:16:41 <ArtForz> yep
1680 2010-12-17 13:16:54 <slush_cz> doublec: Yes, I'm affraid that :)
1681 2010-12-17 13:16:58 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 15750000
1682 2010-12-17 13:16:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15750000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 55 minutes and 41 seconds
1683 2010-12-17 13:17:16 <ArtForz> had 5 hours without a single block yesterday
1684 2010-12-17 13:17:35 <MT`AwAy> you're all going to like that I think
1685 2010-12-17 13:17:38 <ArtForz> also had 4 blocks in 10 minutes
1686 2010-12-17 13:17:40 <popey> ;;bc,calc 933
1687 2010-12-17 13:17:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 933 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 41 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 52 seconds
1688 2010-12-17 13:17:43 <popey> hehe
1689 2010-12-17 13:17:45 <slush_cz> I know that from standalone mining, too. But tell that to people :)
1690 2010-12-17 13:17:46 <popey> poor little pc
1691 2010-12-17 13:17:54 <cosurgi> slush_cz: what is that "Send treshold" option?
1692 2010-12-17 13:18:12 <slush_cz> cosurgi: Reward is sent to your account when is bigger than treshold
1693 2010-12-17 13:18:17 <cosurgi> ok.
1694 2010-12-17 13:18:19 <slush_cz> to avoid sending 0.0001 btc and so
1695 2010-12-17 13:18:25 <doublec> should be 'threshold' btw
1696 2010-12-17 13:18:40 <MT`AwAy> who is thufir ? XD
1697 2010-12-17 13:18:41 <slush_cz> I know. Unfortunately I made mistake in creating database structure O:-)
1698 2010-12-17 13:19:01 <slush_cz> So I will rename it on bigger maintenance/outage
1699 2010-12-17 13:19:07 <slush_cz> Hope you can live with it :)
1700 2010-12-17 13:19:34 <MT`AwAy> who would be still running bitcoin 0.3.10 ?
1701 2010-12-17 13:20:02 <lfm> someone who hasnt updated
1702 2010-12-17 13:20:29 <MT`AwAy> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes <- I made a mediawiki bot that will read the "Fallback Nodes" page, parse the table, and connect to the servers to ask the version (and I think I should be able to detect nodes accepting "IP Transactions" too)
1703 2010-12-17 13:20:52 <doublec> hehe, I do mistakes like that too. I end up with variables names in my programs with weird spellings.
1704 2010-12-17 13:21:08 <ArtForz> did you happen top just run that about 3 minutes ago?
1705 2010-12-17 13:21:13 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: yes
1706 2010-12-17 13:21:32 <ArtForz> it seems to send junk
1707 2010-12-17 13:21:43 <MT`AwAy> mh, it seems that my "version" packet was accepted by all clients
1708 2010-12-17 13:21:48 <Abhish> Thats why I turned thetext editor. spellchecker on in my
1709 2010-12-17 13:21:52 <lfm> it make some odd log entries?
1710 2010-12-17 13:21:59 <ArtForz> yep
1711 2010-12-17 13:22:05 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: can you show me?
1712 2010-12-17 13:22:10 <ArtForz> accepted connection
1713 2010-12-17 13:22:10 <ArtForz> 12/17/2010 13:16:03 sending: version (85 bytes)
1714 2010-12-17 13:22:10 <ArtForz> MainFrameRepaint
1715 2010-12-17 13:22:10 <ArtForz> PROCESSMESSAGE: ERRORS IN HEADER version
1716 2010-12-17 13:22:10 <ArtForz> PROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND
1717 2010-12-17 13:22:12 <ArtForz> PROCESSMESSAGE SKIPPED 20 BYTES
1718 2010-12-17 13:22:14 <ArtForz> PROCESSMESSAGE: ERRORS IN HEADER verack
1719 2010-12-17 13:22:16 <ArtForz> socket closed
1720 2010-12-17 13:22:19 <MT`AwAy> mmmh
1721 2010-12-17 13:22:23 <MT`AwAy> my header is crap then
1722 2010-12-17 13:22:40 <MT`AwAy> clients are still replying with their version (they shouldn't according to what I've read)
1723 2010-12-17 13:22:55 <ArtForz> version isn't a replay to anything
1724 2010-12-17 13:23:14 <ArtForz> iirc its automagically sent on connect
1725 2010-12-17 13:23:21 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: when accepting an incoming connection, the daemon should give its version packet only if it receives a valid version packet
1726 2010-12-17 13:23:29 <MT`AwAy> it's written... somewhere
1727 2010-12-17 13:23:43 <ArtForz> try it
1728 2010-12-17 13:24:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'll first try to fix my version packet
1729 2010-12-17 13:24:33 <MT`AwAy> mh, let me guess, the packet "size" is supposed to include the header too?
1730 2010-12-17 13:24:36 <lfm> MT`AwAy: you dont have to send anything to get version anyway
1731 2010-12-17 13:24:58 <MT`AwAy> lfm: ok, so what I've read was wrong
1732 2010-12-17 13:25:10 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'd like to send a correctly formatted packet
1733 2010-12-17 13:25:10 <MT`AwAy> :D
1734 2010-12-17 13:25:36 <doublec> there's a few old versions there - good idea finding out what they were
1735 2010-12-17 13:25:45 <lfm> MT`AwAy: could be since protocol docs were written by 3rd parties , not satoshi
1736 2010-12-17 13:26:13 <MT`AwAy> doublec: and a few down hosts too
1737 2010-12-17 13:27:13 <MT`AwAy> "down" means either down, or didn't accept my tcp connection within 5 secs (slow nodes shouldn't be listed in fallback)
1738 2010-12-17 13:29:10 <doublec> it'd be interesting to try and connect to as many nodes as possible and find their versions
1739 2010-12-17 13:29:39 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1740 2010-12-17 13:29:49 <MT`AwAy> doublec: would be quite easy
1741 2010-12-17 13:30:13 <cosurgi> slush_cz: do you use email for enything else than initial registration ?
1742 2010-12-17 13:30:34 <slush_cz> cosurgi: Not yet, but I'm working on notification framework
1743 2010-12-17 13:30:37 <lfm> doublec: hard to do since so many people are behind NAT and proxy and stuf
1744 2010-12-17 13:30:39 <cosurgi> ok.
1745 2010-12-17 13:30:44 <slush_cz> you will be able to check what kind of messages you will receive
1746 2010-12-17 13:30:59 <doublec> lfm, good point
1747 2010-12-17 13:31:00 <slush_cz> + it is my contact when something goes wrong. Don't be worry, no spam
1748 2010-12-17 13:31:01 <cosurgi> I see.
1749 2010-12-17 13:31:05 <cosurgi> hm.. what's this?
1750 2010-12-17 13:31:11 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 14:29:11] Block 135 found on Cypress (#1)
1751 2010-12-17 13:31:11 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 14:29:17] ERROR: Executor on Cypress (#1) locked up, restarting it
1752 2010-12-17 13:31:14 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 14:29:24] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Connection timed out
1753 2010-12-17 13:31:16 <cosurgi> 183712 khash/sec
1754 2010-12-17 13:31:34 <cosurgi> now it continues to work: [17.12.10 14:29:48] Block 136 found on Cypress (#1)
1755 2010-12-17 13:31:50 <lfm> net hicup
1756 2010-12-17 13:32:05 <cosurgi> apparently.
1757 2010-12-17 13:32:09 <cosurgi> website is down.
1758 2010-12-17 13:33:05 <lfm> MT`AwAy: there is a thread on the forum about who accepts incomming connects, you using that?
1759 2010-12-17 13:33:14 <MT`AwAy> lfm: no
1760 2010-12-17 13:33:25 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes <- using that
1761 2010-12-17 13:33:42 <slush_cz> I'm connected to server and don't see any problem
1762 2010-12-17 13:34:03 <slush_cz> but yes, miners should handle network outages in some way
1763 2010-12-17 13:34:28 <cosurgi> slush_cz: now it works again.
1764 2010-12-17 13:34:40 <cosurgi> slush_cz: I have pretty good bandwidth here.
1765 2010-12-17 13:34:50 <cosurgi> oops. no, it doesn't:
1766 2010-12-17 13:34:52 <lfm> try http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=59.0
1767 2010-12-17 13:34:52 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 14:32:58] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: mining.bitcoin.cz
1768 2010-12-17 13:36:04 <slush_cz> internet is not perfect. Minor network outages are normal
1769 2010-12-17 13:36:05 <MT`AwAy> lfm: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=59.60 <- looks like theymos copied the thread's ips in the wiki
1770 2010-12-17 13:36:12 ArtForzZz has joined
1771 2010-12-17 13:36:21 <lfm> MT`AwAy: oh ok
1772 2010-12-17 13:36:25 <EvanR> i finally get something on the pooled mining effort, but during the night it said json_rpc_call failed and stopped
1773 2010-12-17 13:36:34 <EvanR> network dropout?
1774 2010-12-17 13:36:57 <slush_cz> EvanR using jgarzik's? He does not handle outages correctly, I had same issue today
1775 2010-12-17 13:37:03 <EvanR> ok
1776 2010-12-17 13:37:19 <slush_cz> Please tell authors, it would be great when they make miners more network-stable
1777 2010-12-17 13:37:23 <ArtForzZz> fucking crappy ISP
1778 2010-12-17 13:37:25 <slush_cz> There is nothing I can do for that
1779 2010-12-17 13:37:55 <EvanR> ill run the command line in a while loop ;)
1780 2010-12-17 13:38:21 <slush_cz> EvanR One possible solution, but sometimes jgarzik's miner hang only some threads.
1781 2010-12-17 13:38:36 <slush_cz> I had 16thread miner and after night only two remain working
1782 2010-12-17 13:38:43 <slush_cz> So loop does not solve everything...
1783 2010-12-17 13:39:03 <cosurgi> ok. I located problem. it's my DNS, for some reason it hates slush_cz
1784 2010-12-17 13:39:09 <cosurgi> now I'm connecting IP directly
1785 2010-12-17 13:39:11 <EvanR> i only have one cpu so im using 1 thread
1786 2010-12-17 13:39:21 <cosurgi> 109.74.195.190
1787 2010-12-17 13:39:34 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1788 2010-12-17 13:40:57 <EvanR> PROOF OF WORK RESULT: true (yay!!!)
1789 2010-12-17 13:41:01 <EvanR> what does this mean?
1790 2010-12-17 13:41:05 <EvanR> i guess its good
1791 2010-12-17 13:41:12 <slush_cz> you found one share
1792 2010-12-17 13:41:17 <EvanR> how much is that
1793 2010-12-17 13:41:30 <slush_cz> currentlu 1/18881  * 50 BTC :-D
1794 2010-12-17 13:41:32 <lfm> 50 btc if your working alone
1795 2010-12-17 13:41:58 <EvanR> so how doesit accumulate
1796 2010-12-17 13:42:06 <slush_cz> EvanR Let is work
1797 2010-12-17 13:42:15 <EvanR> mining.bitcoin.cz doesnt show a coin amount anywhere
1798 2010-12-17 13:42:25 <slush_cz> This round started before 12 hours. So GPU miners are many shares in this round
1799 2010-12-17 13:42:28 <cosurgi> it shows 'current shares'
1800 2010-12-17 13:42:28 <ArtForzZz> so... about $0.0005 :P
1801 2010-12-17 13:42:50 <slush_cz> EvanR Bitcoin reward is counted when block is found. Please read homepage on site
1802 2010-12-17 13:42:57 <EvanR> ok
1803 2010-12-17 13:42:58 <lfm> 50 btc if your working alone
1804 2010-12-17 13:43:04 <EvanR> so its not 1/18881 yet
1805 2010-12-17 13:43:11 <lfm> oops repeat
1806 2010-12-17 13:43:21 <slush_cz> Not yet. It is 1/18881 when somebody find block right now
1807 2010-12-17 13:43:37 <EvanR> and if everyone stops right before the block is found, i get all 50 ?
1808 2010-12-17 13:43:43 <EvanR> everyone else*
1809 2010-12-17 13:43:50 <slush_cz> No
1810 2010-12-17 13:43:52 <cosurgi> quite opposite
1811 2010-12-17 13:44:00 <slush_cz> Because they have already shares in this round
1812 2010-12-17 13:44:06 <EvanR> oh
1813 2010-12-17 13:44:17 <lolcat> The 6850, is it good for mining?
1814 2010-12-17 13:44:29 <slush_cz> when everybody stop hashing now and you will continue for two months in pool alone, you will still get fraction of 50 BTC :-P
1815 2010-12-17 13:44:31 <[Noodles]> and if everyone stops, how will someone find a block? ^.^
1816 2010-12-17 13:44:43 <cosurgi> if everybody stops, and block isn't found. then it never happened.
1817 2010-12-17 13:45:00 <EvanR> bitcoins are ghostly like that
1818 2010-12-17 13:45:03 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: Shares itself have no value
1819 2010-12-17 13:45:06 <cosurgi> hmm... I got too much of [17.12.10 14:43:09] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Connection timed out
1820 2010-12-17 13:45:12 <cosurgi> [17.12.10 14:43:15] ERROR: Executor on Cypress (#1) locked up, restarting it
1821 2010-12-17 13:45:16 <slush_cz> They are recounting to bitcoin reward when block is found. So...
1822 2010-12-17 13:45:17 <[Noodles]> i know, slush
1823 2010-12-17 13:45:34 <EvanR> alright im getting ready to work, my while loop is looping
1824 2010-12-17 13:45:35 <slush_cz> cosurgi: try ping to site
1825 2010-12-17 13:45:46 <lolcat> What was the most bitcoin / price card?
1826 2010-12-17 13:46:10 <lfm> lolcat 6850 should be ok, not best
1827 2010-12-17 13:46:11 <cosurgi> slush_cz: time=39.5 ms
1828 2010-12-17 13:46:30 <cosurgi> 26 packets transmitted, 22 received, 15% packet loss,  average=42.793ms
1829 2010-12-17 13:46:32 <lolcat> lfm: But it is the best price/preformance card?
1830 2010-12-17 13:46:34 <lfm> lolcat prices change all the time but 5770 is good maybe best
1831 2010-12-17 13:47:27 <slush_cz> lfm:  You mean 5970
1832 2010-12-17 13:47:38 <lfm> no
1833 2010-12-17 13:48:02 <lfm> but 5970 is good too, maybe best
1834 2010-12-17 13:48:44 <ArtForzZz> 5770 has best hash/$ for the card alone, about == 5970 if you take the rest of the box into account and 5970 has about 30% better hash/W
1835 2010-12-17 13:49:08 <doublec> I just deleted a wallet with 0.0000004 coins in it. Lost for all eternity. Sorry bitcoin world.
1836 2010-12-17 13:49:15 <lolcat> I have three slots for gpus in th computer I am planning to buy...
1837 2010-12-17 13:49:33 <lolcat> doublec: Jay! Now my bitcoins is worth more :D
1838 2010-12-17 13:49:39 <doublec> hahaha
1839 2010-12-17 13:49:42 <lfm> lolcat using linux or mswin?
1840 2010-12-17 13:49:58 <lolcat> Ubuntu, but I migth put debian or gentoo or something on it.
1841 2010-12-17 13:50:21 <lfm> lolca ok cuz mswin doesnt work for 3 5970s
1842 2010-12-17 13:50:35 <lolcat> Well
1843 2010-12-17 13:50:41 <lolcat> I cant afford 3 5970s
1844 2010-12-17 13:50:53 <lolcat> I can afford 3 6850s
1845 2010-12-17 13:51:02 <lfm> cool
1846 2010-12-17 13:51:10 <Amiga4000> buying just for bitcoin is kinda insane
1847 2010-12-17 13:51:36 <[Noodles]> buying just for games isn't?
1848 2010-12-17 13:51:48 <lfm> Amiga4000: ya, lotsa nuts people here
1849 2010-12-17 13:52:23 <lolcat> ArtForzZz: 5770 is faster than the 6850? The 6850 is 50% more expencive, so I'd be able to get at least two 5770 without too much of a price diffrence.
1850 2010-12-17 13:52:55 <ArtForzZz> 5770 ~155Mh/s, 6850 ~170Mh/s
1851 2010-12-17 13:53:44 <lolcat> Then it would certanly be bether with 2x 5770 than 1 6850...
1852 2010-12-17 13:54:08 <Amiga4000> a graphics card mainly use is to do graphics, or?
1853 2010-12-17 13:54:21 <lolcat> Making bitcoins
1854 2010-12-17 13:54:25 <Amiga4000> but if you have lots of money to spend, fine.
1855 2010-12-17 13:54:33 <Amiga4000> I spend my money for other duties :-)
1856 2010-12-17 13:54:36 <slush_cz> Amiga4000: I have 5970 but last game I played was DukeNukem 3D, 320x200
1857 2010-12-17 13:54:58 <lolcat> I have a fixed rate for electricity, free internet 10mbps, and I like cool computers!
1858 2010-12-17 13:55:01 <lfm> Amiga4000: havnt you heard gpu are general purpose now, just ask any amd or nvidia saleman
1859 2010-12-17 13:55:09 <Amiga4000> (I just got access to some clustered i7 with 480gtx...)
1860 2010-12-17 13:55:33 <ArtForzZz> woo, 100Mh/s for 250W
1861 2010-12-17 13:55:36 <Amiga4000> sure they are. but they suck power like hell, are insane loud and heat up fast.
1862 2010-12-17 13:55:46 <Amiga4000> nothing for home use in my flat.
1863 2010-12-17 13:56:10 <[Noodles]> you dont need to heat your flat?
1864 2010-12-17 13:56:25 <lolcat> How much is the power consumption from my 6850 compared to the 5770? I only have 750watts in my PSU.
1865 2010-12-17 13:56:26 <lfm> move to colder country
1866 2010-12-17 13:56:29 <Amiga4000> not with a noisy PC which I need to pay power for
1867 2010-12-17 13:56:38 <ArtForzZz> 5770 110W, 6850 130W
1868 2010-12-17 13:57:05 <[Noodles]> pay power is not an argument, if you instead would have to pay to heat
1869 2010-12-17 13:57:10 <Amiga4000> my heat is payed by someone else, and just got -10 degrees currently. my PC workstation just got a onboard GPU
1870 2010-12-17 13:57:23 <Amiga4000> if you do not pay the heat, pay power is a reason
1871 2010-12-17 13:57:26 <lolcat> ArtForzZz: Youre in Norway? Oo
1872 2010-12-17 13:57:46 <lolcat> I pay for power, but it is the same price every month
1873 2010-12-17 13:58:11 <ArtForzZz> what would I want in norway?
1874 2010-12-17 13:58:45 <ArtForzZz> if you want cheap power, move to canada :P
1875 2010-12-17 13:58:48 <lfm> nice place
1876 2010-12-17 13:58:55 <lolcat> e cold and miserable like everybody else
1877 2010-12-17 13:59:53 <lolcat> Is 2x 6850 twice as good as one 6850?
1878 2010-12-17 14:00:06 <Amiga4000> lolcat: not 100%, a bit less
1879 2010-12-17 14:00:10 <ArtForzZz> 100%
1880 2010-12-17 14:00:21 <ArtForzZz> unless you'Re counting millipercent
1881 2010-12-17 14:00:22 <lolcat> My friends says for games it is 50% on the last card...
1882 2010-12-17 14:00:34 <ArtForzZz> well, gaming != mining
1883 2010-12-17 14:00:40 <lfm> or if your cpu is 5 years old
1884 2010-12-17 14:00:46 <ArtForzZz> mining is embarrasingly parallel
1885 2010-12-17 14:00:46 <Amiga4000> for games more data is pressed across the PCIe bus
1886 2010-12-17 14:00:54 <lolcat> I don't know how old the i7 950 is...
1887 2010-12-17 14:01:09 <lfm> lolcat: i7 is maybe 1 year old
1888 2010-12-17 14:01:10 <ArtForzZz> hell, for mining PCIe 2.0 x16 vs. PCIe 1.0 x1 makes well < 1% difference
1889 2010-12-17 14:01:30 <lolcat> But I hear some miners miss bitcoins, is that fixed?
1890 2010-12-17 14:01:56 <lfm> lolcat which? maybe old versions, most are fixed asap
1891 2010-12-17 14:02:16 <lolcat> I have no idea, they said something about it while I was ideling here yesterday
1892 2010-12-17 14:02:47 <lfm> lolcat: maybe someone who didnt understand the preliminary checks vs the final checks
1893 2010-12-17 14:04:06 <slush_cz> > lfm: move to colder country
1894 2010-12-17 14:04:06 <slush_cz> I have -20 outside, but 40 oC in my chamber :-D
1895 2010-12-17 14:04:41 <lfm> slush open a window
1896 2010-12-17 14:05:16 <slush_cz> lfm: There is no one
1897 2010-12-17 14:05:30 <lfm> get jack-hammer, make window
1898 2010-12-17 14:05:32 <slush_cz> But I made a big hole in wall last week :)
1899 2010-12-17 14:05:39 <slush_cz> Yes I did
1900 2010-12-17 14:05:41 maqr has joined
1901 2010-12-17 14:05:42 <lfm> there ya go
1902 2010-12-17 14:06:05 <lfm> if its still 40C you need to make it bigger
1903 2010-12-17 14:06:46 <slush_cz> 40oC is on ceiling. On floor is around 30, which is fine
1904 2010-12-17 14:06:47 <lfm> computers work best about 5C
1905 2010-12-17 14:06:52 <MT`AwAy> anyone has an example binary representation of a serialized CWalletTx ?
1906 2010-12-17 14:08:03 <lfm> I have a couple machines in my garage at about 5C
1907 2010-12-17 14:11:18 <lfm> gets even colder when I drive car in or out
1908 2010-12-17 14:12:41 <lolcat> I got a raise! I asked casually yesterday about it, and voila, today she told me I got it!
1909 2010-12-17 14:12:55 <lfm> lolcat: wtg
1910 2010-12-17 14:13:07 <lolcat> My boss isn't evil all the time :D
1911 2010-12-17 14:13:32 <edcba> he just thinks you are a sucker maybe
1912 2010-12-17 14:13:38 <lolcat> She
1913 2010-12-17 14:13:54 <edcba> she certainly thinks you are a sucker then :p
1914 2010-12-17 14:13:54 <lolcat> edcba: Then she woulnd't give me more salary for the same job.
1915 2010-12-17 14:13:59 <EvanR> slush_cz: so if my threshold is 1 coin, i cant see any reward until i get 19000/50 shares? ;)
1916 2010-12-17 14:14:14 <edcba> depends on when was your last salary increase
1917 2010-12-17 14:14:29 <edcba> and how much
1918 2010-12-17 14:16:08 <lolcat> edcba: I worked there for something like a year, I got a dollar raise last time (everyone did though) and I think is also around a dollar an houre. Wich is something like 5%...
1919 2010-12-17 14:16:32 <slush_cz> EvanR Threshold is not related to any mining speed
1920 2010-12-17 14:16:41 <slush_cz> Your reward is couning independently on threshold
1921 2010-12-17 14:16:48 helmut has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1922 2010-12-17 14:17:04 <slush_cz> Only transfer from server's wallet to your wallet is triggered when reward >= threshold
1923 2010-12-17 14:17:08 <EvanR> thats what i mean
1924 2010-12-17 14:17:39 <EvanR> how does is a round usually?
1925 2010-12-17 14:17:59 <slush_cz> You can set lower threshold. But after server update today, minimal threshold will be 0.01, because bitcoin client does not show >2 decimal places
1926 2010-12-17 14:18:09 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1927 2010-12-17 14:18:18 <slush_cz> EvanR No rounding, I calculate everything with 8 digit precision
1928 2010-12-17 14:18:26 tg has joined
1929 2010-12-17 14:18:36 <slush_cz> so you may lost 0.00000001 bitcoin by rounding...
1930 2010-12-17 14:19:03 Rhonda has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1931 2010-12-17 14:19:06 <EvanR> dammit
1932 2010-12-17 14:19:13 <EvanR> "how LONG is a round usually"
1933 2010-12-17 14:19:18 Amiga4000 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1934 2010-12-17 14:19:24 <slush_cz> oh, sorry :))
1935 2010-12-17 14:19:33 <slush_cz> It depends on network difficulty and cluster hash speed
1936 2010-12-17 14:19:40 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 1770431
1937 2010-12-17 14:19:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1770431 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 15 minutes, and 22 seconds
1938 2010-12-17 14:19:44 <slush_cz> there is nothing as defined round time
1939 2010-12-17 14:19:49 <lolcat> edcba: You think it is to little?
1940 2010-12-17 14:19:55 <cosurgi> according to current statistics it's 8 hours...... but I'm not believing this.
1941 2010-12-17 14:20:17 <slush_cz> cosurgi: This is statistics
1942 2010-12-17 14:20:18 <cosurgi> I'll be surprised if pool will find a block tommorow
1943 2010-12-17 14:20:27 <EvanR> well im going to work, ill run cpuminer on my work computer and see if i can get away with it ;)
1944 2010-12-17 14:20:29 <slush_cz> cosurgi: You can found three blocks in row as I did once
1945 2010-12-17 14:20:36 <slush_cz> cosurgi: And then nothing for a week...
1946 2010-12-17 14:20:48 <cosurgi> yes, exactly.
1947 2010-12-17 14:21:00 <slush_cz> cosurgi: Yesterday there were 3 blocks
1948 2010-12-17 14:21:08 <EvanR> man we have lots of cpus at work.... ;)
1949 2010-12-17 14:21:10 <slush_cz> until 25 hours
1950 2010-12-17 14:21:20 <EvanR> id probably get fired
1951 2010-12-17 14:21:29 devon_hillard has joined
1952 2010-12-17 14:27:14 devon_hillard_ has joined
1953 2010-12-17 14:27:52 devon_hillard has quit (Disconnected by services)
1954 2010-12-17 14:28:22 Rhonda has joined
1955 2010-12-17 14:28:26 devon_hillard_ is now known as devon_hillard
1956 2010-12-17 14:28:59 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1957 2010-12-17 14:29:14 <UukGoblin> hmm
1958 2010-12-17 14:29:30 <UukGoblin> it appears that my 5970 is warmer at 800MHz than at 825MHz
1959 2010-12-17 14:29:41 <ArtForzZz> weird
1960 2010-12-17 14:30:17 <UukGoblin> it might have broken or something
1961 2010-12-17 14:30:41 <slush_cz> UukGoblin: Is your core working on 825?
1962 2010-12-17 14:30:56 <slush_cz> I had same issue until I found that one core is dead on higher frequency
1963 2010-12-17 14:31:05 <slush_cz> Driver stopped it
1964 2010-12-17 14:31:20 <UukGoblin> hrm
1965 2010-12-17 14:31:32 <edcba> lolcat: my last raise was more than double yours :p
1966 2010-12-17 14:31:35 <UukGoblin> would have to make that test thingy ArtForzZz has
1967 2010-12-17 14:31:38 Amiga4000 has joined
1968 2010-12-17 14:31:41 <UukGoblin> unless he'd be kind enough to release it
1969 2010-12-17 14:32:24 darrob has joined
1970 2010-12-17 14:32:50 <lolcat> edcba: I earn rougly $23 flipping burgers, + a few dollars because it is during the evnings
1971 2010-12-17 14:35:05 <edcba> oh flipping burgers ok
1972 2010-12-17 14:35:19 <edcba> hope you have a lot of free time though
1973 2010-12-17 14:35:37 <lolcat> Why?
1974 2010-12-17 14:36:07 <lolcat> edcba: Tomorrow I will get to teach someone how to do my job xD
1975 2010-12-17 14:36:08 <edcba> doing what you like
1976 2010-12-17 14:36:40 * edcba should do his job instead of chatting here :)
1977 2010-12-17 14:37:00 <lolcat> edcba: I like earning money
1978 2010-12-17 14:37:18 <lolcat> But when I get that new computer, I can live off bitcoins!
1979 2010-12-17 14:38:26 omglolbbq has joined
1980 2010-12-17 14:38:33 KwukDuck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1981 2010-12-17 14:40:03 Rhonda has quit (Changing host)
1982 2010-12-17 14:40:03 Rhonda has joined
1983 2010-12-17 14:40:27 <EvanR-work> edcba: never!
1984 2010-12-17 14:40:49 <EvanR-work> its part of the bitcoin plot, make people chat about stuff rather than work, undermining the economy
1985 2010-12-17 14:48:53 Anti-Social_ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
1986 2010-12-17 14:49:41 <nanotube> EvanR-work: woo, i got 3 shares out of 20835... i can expect .007 bitcoins from this block! hehe
1987 2010-12-17 14:49:58 <nanotube> slush_cz: --^ :)
1988 2010-12-17 14:50:59 <slush_cz> :)
1989 2010-12-17 14:51:00 <EvanR-work> i bumped it up to two threads on my work computer, about 1100kh/s, unfortunately my fan system goes into overdrive and people look at me funny ;)
1990 2010-12-17 14:51:17 <Amiga4000> get a better fan :-)
1991 2010-12-17 14:51:21 pp22 has joined
1992 2010-12-17 14:51:27 <EvanR-work> dell dimension 5150
1993 2010-12-17 14:51:30 <slush_cz> EvanR-work: Become a sysadmin, you will have plenty of cpu power overnight :-D
1994 2010-12-17 14:51:59 <EvanR-work> we have a basically idle SCO unixware box in the basement
1995 2010-12-17 14:52:14 acous has joined
1996 2010-12-17 14:52:29 <Amiga4000> slush_cz: not only over night
1997 2010-12-17 14:52:30 <pp22> where am i supposed to report bugs and propose patches for the official bitcoin client? on the forum?
1998 2010-12-17 14:52:30 <EvanR-work> i could hijack that easily ;)
1999 2010-12-17 14:54:21 <dsg> pp22: Yes, I don't think there's a bugtracker yet.
2000 2010-12-17 14:55:45 <pp22> I'll try the forum, couldn't find the bugtracker that's why I asked. Thnx
2001 2010-12-17 14:57:44 <EvanR-work> nanotube: cpu miner?
2002 2010-12-17 14:58:16 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
2003 2010-12-17 14:58:59 <nanotube> EvanR-work: yep, jgarzik's cpuminer.
2004 2010-12-17 14:59:05 <EvanR-work> what cpu?
2005 2010-12-17 15:00:09 Insty has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2006 2010-12-17 15:00:17 <nanotube> /proc/cpuinfo says Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5405  @ 2.00GHz
2007 2010-12-17 15:00:38 <EvanR-work> Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz
2008 2010-12-17 15:00:51 <EvanR-work> i have more GHz!!!!1 ;)
2009 2010-12-17 15:01:05 <nanotube> what hps are you getting? :)
2010 2010-12-17 15:01:17 <EvanR-work> 1100 with two or more threads
2011 2010-12-17 15:01:20 <EvanR-work> k
2012 2010-12-17 15:01:44 <UukGoblin> slush_cz, did you find a way around it?
2013 2010-12-17 15:01:53 <lolcat> -su: /proc/cpuinfo: Permission denied
2014 2010-12-17 15:02:05 <EvanR-work> cat /proc/cpuinfo
2015 2010-12-17 15:02:08 <nanotube> EvanR-work: i'm doing 780 khps with one thread.
2016 2010-12-17 15:02:12 Insty has joined
2017 2010-12-17 15:02:20 <EvanR-work> i get 540
2018 2010-12-17 15:02:38 Insty is now known as Insti
2019 2010-12-17 15:02:48 <EvanR-work> goes to show you cant compare gigahertz across different machines
2020 2010-12-17 15:02:50 <nanotube> wonder if i should try the other hash methods and see how they compare with hps.
2021 2010-12-17 15:03:27 <EvanR-work> i tried diablo gpu miner but it tells me i need some java crap
2022 2010-12-17 15:03:29 <Amiga4000> Ghz is just a small amount of possibility. it is just core internal under best circumstances
2023 2010-12-17 15:05:53 helmut has joined
2024 2010-12-17 15:08:57 <EvanR-work> we should combine seti and bitcoins
2025 2010-12-17 15:09:05 <EvanR-work> search for extraterrestrial bitcoins
2026 2010-12-17 15:09:53 <nanotube> haha
2027 2010-12-17 15:12:04 <MT`AwAy> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes <- anyone else has a permanently running bitcoin ?
2028 2010-12-17 15:13:16 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: I have
2029 2010-12-17 15:13:23 <EvanR-work> do you allow permanently running bitcoins on your vpses?
2030 2010-12-17 15:13:59 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: your ip or dynamic dns is?
2031 2010-12-17 15:14:09 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: yes, I do, as long as you're not generating :D
2032 2010-12-17 15:14:12 <slush_cz> static, it is server
2033 2010-12-17 15:14:14 <EvanR-work> ah
2034 2010-12-17 15:14:17 <MT`AwAy> (well, you can generate, in fact)
2035 2010-12-17 15:14:26 <EvanR-work> well if youre not generating, whats the point?
2036 2010-12-17 15:14:35 <MT`AwAy> (but you're not going to get much, if you have vps EuropaVPS 512, you'll get ~1.1 mhash/sec)
2037 2010-12-17 15:15:02 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: you can generate, in fact, but virtualized linux has sometimes troubles handling correctly idle tasks
2038 2010-12-17 15:15:13 <EvanR-work> the fallback list is for supporting the network right, not mining?
2039 2010-12-17 15:15:15 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: hostname mining.bitcoin.cz, IP 109.74.195.190
2040 2010-12-17 15:15:25 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: yes
2041 2010-12-17 15:15:35 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: that's yours?
2042 2010-12-17 15:15:38 <slush_cz> yes
2043 2010-12-17 15:15:41 <EvanR-work> so youd have to generate to be on the list
2044 2010-12-17 15:15:50 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: ok, added
2045 2010-12-17 15:16:05 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: you don't need to generate t obe on the list
2046 2010-12-17 15:16:10 <EvanR-work> oh
2047 2010-12-17 15:16:11 <MT`AwAy> it's just for people who cannot access irc
2048 2010-12-17 15:16:17 <EvanR-work> oh
2049 2010-12-17 15:16:31 <MT`AwAy> it's to have a list of reliable nodes
2050 2010-12-17 15:16:53 <MT`AwAy> hopefully, bitcoin will put those ips in priority in its fallback bootstrap ip list
2051 2010-12-17 15:16:54 <MT`AwAy> :)
2052 2010-12-17 15:16:54 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy:  I have more than 99.9 availability
2053 2010-12-17 15:17:09 <MT`AwAy> instead of randomly chosen nodes from which most are not up anymore
2054 2010-12-17 15:17:23 <cosurgi> omg.
2055 2010-12-17 15:17:25 <MT`AwAy> I'll run the bot to update slush_cz host
2056 2010-12-17 15:17:29 maqr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2057 2010-12-17 15:18:08 <cosurgi> a guy from citrix called, saying that he saw my cv, and if I want to work there. said 'not thanks'. that's the first time when comeone googles my cv and offers a job.
2058 2010-12-17 15:18:25 <MT`AwAy> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes <- slush_cz you're not up to the last version ;)
2059 2010-12-17 15:18:58 Tester has joined
2060 2010-12-17 15:19:22 <wump> cosurgi:  there seems to be really a talent hunt at the moment
2061 2010-12-17 15:19:47 <MT`AwAy> good thing my resume is not available online :D
2062 2010-12-17 15:20:15 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Yes, I'm on 3.18 Is it the big deal? I don't want to restart it often. There is no security issue in 0.3.18
2063 2010-12-17 15:20:26 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: nah, just saying ;)
2064 2010-12-17 15:20:35 <slush_cz> ok
2065 2010-12-17 15:20:36 <MT`AwAy> 0.3.19 only fixes a potential DoS on  the RPC :p
2066 2010-12-17 15:21:00 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy:  I know. But I'm the only one who access RPC :)
2067 2010-12-17 15:21:07 <MT`AwAy> which you are affected by
2068 2010-12-17 15:21:14 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: you cannot use your RPC right now :p
2069 2010-12-17 15:21:29 <MT`AwAy> I can unlock it by pressing one key here
2070 2010-12-17 15:21:29 <MT`AwAy> :D
2071 2010-12-17 15:21:47 <slush_cz> ?
2072 2010-12-17 15:21:57 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: try issing a getinfo to your bitcoin server
2073 2010-12-17 15:23:01 <slush_cz> RPC port is closed
2074 2010-12-17 15:23:08 <MT`AwAy> uh
2075 2010-12-17 15:23:21 <MT`AwAy> yeah there's something weird here
2076 2010-12-17 15:23:39 <Tester> wondering if Windows versions only accepted other Windows results that would skinny down the community but the system would still run
2077 2010-12-17 15:23:55 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy:  Are you talking about my instance? Do you see any problem?
2078 2010-12-17 15:24:04 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: no, I see something weird here
2079 2010-12-17 15:24:10 <slush_cz> ok
2080 2010-12-17 15:24:18 <MT`AwAy> when I telnet your port 8332 I get a reply from Server: nginx/0.7.67
2081 2010-12-17 15:24:25 <slush_cz> Of course
2082 2010-12-17 15:24:43 <slush_cz> Do you really think you talk with bitcoin client in my mining server? :)
2083 2010-12-17 15:24:49 <MT`AwAy> :D
2084 2010-12-17 15:24:55 <MT`AwAy> I see
2085 2010-12-17 15:25:04 <MT`AwAy> so you're safe ;)
2086 2010-12-17 15:25:15 <MT`AwAy> (I was assuming you weren't since I had a HTTP server on port 8332 on your ip)
2087 2010-12-17 15:25:33 <slush_cz> yes, application server sitting here
2088 2010-12-17 15:25:36 <wump> hahah he has a honeypot rpc server?
2089 2010-12-17 15:26:04 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'll add check for ip transactions to my code soon
2090 2010-12-17 15:27:40 DoomDumas has joined
2091 2010-12-17 15:28:08 <Tester> "honeypot rpc server" more like poison pill server
2092 2010-12-17 15:32:30 Abhish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2093 2010-12-17 15:32:40 <wump> what's so poisonous about it?
2094 2010-12-17 15:32:40 Tester has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2095 2010-12-17 15:35:52 <lfm> tester == troll
2096 2010-12-17 15:36:07 <ArtForzZz> yup
2097 2010-12-17 15:38:20 skeledrew has joined
2098 2010-12-17 15:45:00 maqr has joined
2099 2010-12-17 15:45:02 maqr has quit (Changing host)
2100 2010-12-17 15:45:03 maqr has joined
2101 2010-12-17 15:46:35 <MT`AwAy>         if (strtotime($line[4].' GMT') < (time()-86400)) continue; // drop hosts offline for 24 hours
2102 2010-12-17 15:46:40 <MT`AwAy> I'll be dropping offline hosts :)
2103 2010-12-17 15:48:30 Diablo-D3 has joined
2104 2010-12-17 15:49:10 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: cron in place, every 1 hour, all ips in "Fallback Nodes" will be poked
2105 2010-12-17 15:50:58 grondilu has joined
2106 2010-12-17 15:51:34 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: What is the exact reason for fallback nodes? It is for case of network instability or so?
2107 2010-12-17 15:52:08 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: it's for clients who can't connect to irc
2108 2010-12-17 15:52:39 <MT`AwAy> or people with really restrictive firewall rules who do not want to be connected to lots of node, and want to limit themselves to a few ips
2109 2010-12-17 15:52:39 <slush_cz> ah, ok
2110 2010-12-17 15:52:55 <MT`AwAy> ie. people who may want a set of high quality nodes to bootstrap from
2111 2010-12-17 15:52:58 grondilu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2112 2010-12-17 15:53:18 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: It is already in use in current bitcoin client?
2113 2010-12-17 15:53:55 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: for now, not yet, but I'll try to suggest it :)
2114 2010-12-17 15:55:55 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Try to suggest google's fulltext search for bitcoin nodes ;)
2115 2010-12-17 15:56:05 <slush_cz> maybe pluggable for other search engines :-)
2116 2010-12-17 15:56:39 <MT`AwAy> ?
2117 2010-12-17 15:56:44 <MT`AwAy> what would we search for?
2118 2010-12-17 15:57:01 <slush_cz> two effects: a) bitcoin clients will rise bitcoin popularity in search results itself and you will skip central spof (fallback nodes site, irc, ...)
2119 2010-12-17 15:57:27 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: currently there's a fallback node list embedded in the bitcoin source
2120 2010-12-17 15:57:44 <MT`AwAy> I'm going to suggest to have it updated from times to times to our list here
2121 2010-12-17 15:57:49 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: sounds good. if you ever notice -otc node being down, please let me know. :)
2122 2010-12-17 15:58:05 akem has joined
2123 2010-12-17 15:58:05 akem has quit (Changing host)
2124 2010-12-17 15:58:05 akem has joined
2125 2010-12-17 15:58:06 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: I don't thing node searching should be accepted by developers :)
2126 2010-12-17 15:58:14 <slush_cz> it was mainly a joke, but it is doable
2127 2010-12-17 15:58:50 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: maybe I could setup a private list of email addresses who get noticed when a node is down ;)
2128 2010-12-17 15:59:14 <MT`AwAy> (or when there's a node with higher version)
2129 2010-12-17 15:59:34 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: would be neato :)
2130 2010-12-17 15:59:57 <MT`AwAy> in fact, you'd get notified when your node status *changes* :p
2131 2010-12-17 16:00:06 <MT`AwAy> (avoid 1 mail/hour because you didn't update, for example)
2132 2010-12-17 16:00:12 slush_cz has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2133 2010-12-17 16:01:52 <lfm> MT`AwAy: remember bitcoin should remain distributed. you cant become "single node of failure"
2134 2010-12-17 16:02:18 <altamic> MT: do you speak japanese?
2135 2010-12-17 16:02:33 <MT`AwAy> altamic: I speak japanese, writing it is a bit more problematic :p
2136 2010-12-17 16:03:01 <MT`AwAy> I can write japanese when mailing friends, as long as it's normal japanese :D
2137 2010-12-17 16:03:23 <altamic> nice
2138 2010-12-17 16:03:38 <altamic> how long did it take to lean?
2139 2010-12-17 16:04:44 <MT`AwAy> altamic: I didn't "learn" japanese, just found myself being able to talk before I noticed it
2140 2010-12-17 16:04:45 <MT`AwAy> :p
2141 2010-12-17 16:05:26 <Diablo-D3> watashiwa nihongoga wakaraimasen :<
2142 2010-12-17 16:05:48 <MT`AwAy> :p
2143 2010-12-17 16:06:54 <altamic> 私はベーコンを食べます
2144 2010-12-17 16:07:06 <MT`AwAy> altamic: don't eat bacon, it's bad for health
2145 2010-12-17 16:07:11 <altamic> hehe
2146 2010-12-17 16:07:42 <EvanR-work> 你好！
2147 2010-12-17 16:07:50 <MT`AwAy> btw in japanese some english word sound the same, it can be difficult at first (for example building an beer have the almost same pronounciation)
2148 2010-12-17 16:08:23 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: that's chinese
2149 2010-12-17 16:08:50 gavinandresen has joined
2150 2010-12-17 16:09:40 <EvanR-work> hehe
2151 2010-12-17 16:12:58 Toadyonps3 has joined
2152 2010-12-17 16:14:20 AAA_awright has joined
2153 2010-12-17 16:16:39 AAA_awright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2154 2010-12-17 16:16:41 Cusipzzz has joined
2155 2010-12-17 16:19:19 Zarutian has joined
2156 2010-12-17 16:20:45 theymos has joined
2157 2010-12-17 16:21:35 <devon_hillard> do you know of a link for a set of bitcoin benchmarks for GPUs?
2158 2010-12-17 16:21:47 <devon_hillard> someone posted it here maybe last week, can't remember it
2159 2010-12-17 16:22:37 <popey> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
2160 2010-12-17 16:22:37 <popey> ?
2161 2010-12-17 16:22:38 <Dr_Pangloss> 5770 gets ~150 mhash/s
2162 2010-12-17 16:24:56 <xelister> Ati makes my screensaver hang
2163 2010-12-17 16:25:06 <xelister> Ati makes my BLANK screensaver hang while leaving desktop locked out
2164 2010-12-17 16:25:09 <xelister> thank you so much Ati
2165 2010-12-17 16:25:36 <xelister> Ati. Crappiest drivers&software since 2003.
2166 2010-12-17 16:27:47 <xelister> Dr_Pangloss: 160-165 with tiny help of overclocking
2167 2010-12-17 16:28:34 <Dr_Pangloss> indeed
2168 2010-12-17 16:28:37 <xelister> devon_hillard: I can make it for you right now (have it almost ready) (around 4..5 radeons there, including 5770 5970 cards) for 10 btc
2169 2010-12-17 16:30:29 <xelister> actually, for symbolic 4 btc... not round amount of btc in my wallet pisses me off :P
2170 2010-12-17 16:30:51 <xelister> btw why I ahve   ... .06395871  btc any idea? in wallet?
2171 2010-12-17 16:31:48 <MT`AwAy> xelister: you'll lose 0.00395871 btc
2172 2010-12-17 16:32:00 <devon_hillard> I just ordered a 5570 for normal gaming
2173 2010-12-17 16:32:04 <MT`AwAy> for now there's no other way
2174 2010-12-17 16:32:04 <MT`AwAy> :p
2175 2010-12-17 16:32:26 <devon_hillard> xelister ^^
2176 2010-12-17 16:32:50 <EvanR-work> MT`AwAy: youll lose it if you spend it?
2177 2010-12-17 16:32:56 <devon_hillard> xelister: oh, you are asking me for money :p sorry, all I have is 0.15 from donations
2178 2010-12-17 16:33:23 <devon_hillard> 0.2 now !
2179 2010-12-17 16:33:47 <MT`AwAy> EvanR-work: it's likely to be sticked with other coins
2180 2010-12-17 16:33:49 <MT`AwAy> if not you're fine
2181 2010-12-17 16:34:09 <MT`AwAy> until your bitcoin client decide to use it anyway
2182 2010-12-17 16:41:19 albatross_ has joined
2183 2010-12-17 16:41:37 <xelister> devon_hillard: how are you getting this mony now? :)
2184 2010-12-17 16:41:55 <devon_hillard> xelister: freebitcoins.appspot.com
2185 2010-12-17 16:41:56 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 1700000
2186 2010-12-17 16:41:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 35 minutes, and 54 seconds
2187 2010-12-17 16:42:16 <UukGoblin> showmethemoney
2188 2010-12-17 16:42:19 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 1700000
2189 2010-12-17 16:42:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 35 minutes, and 54 seconds
2190 2010-12-17 16:42:28 <UukGoblin> !@!! the cheatcodes are broken
2191 2010-12-17 16:42:39 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 2700
2192 2010-12-17 16:42:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2700 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 32 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 47 minutes, and 42 seconds
2193 2010-12-17 16:42:55 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 20000
2194 2010-12-17 16:42:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 20000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 4 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 51 minutes, and 44 seconds
2195 2010-12-17 16:43:01 <EvanR-work> blacksheepwall
2196 2010-12-17 16:43:30 <devon_hillard> ;;showmethemoney
2197 2010-12-17 16:43:30 <gribble> Error: "showmethemoney" is not a valid command.
2198 2010-12-17 16:43:48 <appamatto> ;;bc,stats
2199 2010-12-17 16:43:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98073 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 710 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14335.69238471
2200 2010-12-17 16:44:06 <appamatto> Wow, another jump in the difficulty estimate
2201 2010-12-17 16:44:07 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,help
2202 2010-12-17 16:44:07 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
2203 2010-12-17 16:44:19 <devon_hillard> ;;help
2204 2010-12-17 16:44:20 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2205 2010-12-17 16:44:39 <UukGoblin> !facts
2206 2010-12-17 16:44:47 <UukGoblin> t3h bots are lying now
2207 2010-12-17 16:49:39 slush_cz has joined
2208 2010-12-17 16:50:02 <nanotube> ;;facts
2209 2010-12-17 16:50:06 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
2210 2010-12-17 17:05:07 * MT`AwAy pokes davux
2211 2010-12-17 17:07:09 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2212 2010-12-17 17:09:59 <Diablo-D3> [12/17/10 12:03:36 PM] Block 1 found on ATI RV770 (#1)
2213 2010-12-17 17:10:01 <Diablo-D3> sweet!
2214 2010-12-17 17:10:46 <devon_hillard> do you need any GDDR to do bitcoin minint?
2215 2010-12-17 17:10:49 <devon_hillard> s/minint/mining
2216 2010-12-17 17:11:01 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: you dont need memory
2217 2010-12-17 17:11:12 <Diablo-D3> gpu mining has no use for memory speed at all
2218 2010-12-17 17:16:25 Cusipzzz has quit ()
2219 2010-12-17 17:16:59 <wump> indeed, the important thing is number of threads
2220 2010-12-17 17:17:09 <xelister> Diablo-D3: your miner's reporting suck
2221 2010-12-17 17:17:14 <xelister> what is the point of finding block
2222 2010-12-17 17:17:34 <xelister> if you dont know what the G and nonce was and you can't print that on your my-first-block photo :P
2223 2010-12-17 17:17:41 <xelister> >_>
2224 2010-12-17 17:17:54 <Diablo-D3> because those are encoded into the chain anyhow?
2225 2010-12-17 17:18:06 <xelister> yea then nonce
2226 2010-12-17 17:18:13 <Diablo-D3> infact, on debug mode I print out the full header
2227 2010-12-17 17:20:40 <Diablo-D3> contains target and nonce
2228 2010-12-17 17:21:55 <xelister> neat
2229 2010-12-17 17:22:18 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt print out G, but thats useless
2230 2010-12-17 17:22:29 <Diablo-D3> beating the target is a binary state, you either did or didnt
2231 2010-12-17 17:23:49 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: thanks for the listtransactions update!
2232 2010-12-17 17:23:55 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I can now drop xlisttransactions
2233 2010-12-17 17:24:49 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: cool.  It is still missing some of the information reported in your patch, though, isn't it?
2234 2010-12-17 17:25:00 ebel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2235 2010-12-17 17:25:04 <jgarzik>         "address" : "13RKsVhxwebS1QoXxqNWmVpeo6iqv7v1cq",
2236 2010-12-17 17:25:04 <jgarzik>         "label" : "",
2237 2010-12-17 17:25:04 <jgarzik>         "txid" : "a5832720822e44078860da78d878b8ef62fd0e77a075948b436cd51932021beb",
2238 2010-12-17 17:25:04 <jgarzik>         "txtime" : 1292093397,
2239 2010-12-17 17:25:04 <jgarzik>         "category" : "debit",
2240 2010-12-17 17:25:05 <jgarzik>         "amount" : 14.63000000,
2241 2010-12-17 17:25:07 <jgarzik>         "confirmations" : 1022
2242 2010-12-17 17:25:13 <jgarzik> that's mine
2243 2010-12-17 17:26:27 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: so... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think gettransaction or listtransactions now covers all of those
2244 2010-12-17 17:26:30 altamic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2245 2010-12-17 17:26:45 altamic has joined
2246 2010-12-17 17:27:09 <gavinandresen> Everything except address.
2247 2010-12-17 17:27:49 <UukGoblin> there's "address", not sure which one it is
2248 2010-12-17 17:28:07 <Diablo-D3> yeah, it should have a to and from address
2249 2010-12-17 17:28:09 <Diablo-D3> for completeness
2250 2010-12-17 17:28:19 <gavinandresen> "from address" doesn't make sense.
2251 2010-12-17 17:28:33 <gavinandresen> ... and, theoretically, there could be multiple "to" addresses.
2252 2010-12-17 17:29:06 <EvanR-work> how often does the pool complete a block?
2253 2010-12-17 17:29:09 <gavinandresen> (well, "from" meaning "received on" for a receive does make sense)
2254 2010-12-17 17:29:25 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: how do you tell what address you got it from if theres no from?
2255 2010-12-17 17:29:27 <jgarzik> my "address" is the local user's bitcoin address, AS REPRODUCED FROM THE UI CODE
2256 2010-12-17 17:29:40 <Diablo-D3> caps much?
2257 2010-12-17 17:30:11 <jgarzik> so, satoshi-code
2258 2010-12-17 17:31:06 <gavinandresen> satoshi-code?
2259 2010-12-17 17:31:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: written by satoshi, not me
2260 2010-12-17 17:31:37 <gavinandresen> Ah, yeah.  Gotta handle stuff like this in the RPC:
2261 2010-12-17 17:31:46 <gavinandresen>     {
2262 2010-12-17 17:31:46 <gavinandresen>         "account" : "Test1",
2263 2010-12-17 17:31:46 <gavinandresen>         "category" : "send",
2264 2010-12-17 17:31:47 <gavinandresen>         "amount" : -8.03000000,
2265 2010-12-17 17:31:47 <gavinandresen>         "fee" : 0.00000000,
2266 2010-12-17 17:31:47 <gavinandresen>         "confirmations" : 64,
2267 2010-12-17 17:31:48 <gavinandresen>         "txid" : "36c86ca499275945a3f1805d6e070ac00b2d32e5e16a4c9cf2c83b189a347d88",
2268 2010-12-17 17:31:48 <gavinandresen>         "time" : 1292532062,
2269 2010-12-17 17:31:48 <gavinandresen>         "comment" : "multisend, Test1 to Test2 and Test3 twice (same addr)"
2270 2010-12-17 17:31:48 <gavinandresen>     }
2271 2010-12-17 17:31:57 <gavinandresen> (that was on the testnet)
2272 2010-12-17 17:33:02 <gavinandresen> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/36c86ca499275945a3f1805d6e070ac00b2d32e5e16a4c9cf2c83b189a347d88
2273 2010-12-17 17:34:02 <jgarzik> the purpose of listtransactions was simply to provide, via RPC, the same view given to users in the UI.  It seemed strange and annoying that one could access this information via UI and not RPC.  I understand the underlying issues, really, but I also strongly believe that there should be some diagnostic "dump a raw transaction" or "dump a raw block" RPCs for direct data inspection.  thus, listtransactions and getblock
2274 2010-12-17 17:34:02 <jgarzik> bycount (formerly getblock).
2275 2010-12-17 17:34:22 <jgarzik> so, it is inevitable that gettransaction/listtransaction will look slightly different.
2276 2010-12-17 17:34:35 <jgarzik> nevertheless, it is sufficient now that I consider xlisttransactions superceded.
2277 2010-12-17 17:34:57 <gavinandresen> Yup.  I just have to figure out what listtransactions reports for sends/receives with respect to addresses....
2278 2010-12-17 17:35:16 <jgarzik> as a programmer, my goal is to be lazy and minimize work.  I would much rather have 95% of what I want in mainline, than 0%.
2279 2010-12-17 17:35:27 <gavinandresen> I don't want "address" to be a single value if it is a send, but multiple values if it is a receive.
2280 2010-12-17 17:35:38 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: a JSON array?
2281 2010-12-17 17:36:08 <gavinandresen> For sends, it has to be.
2282 2010-12-17 17:36:31 <gavinandresen> ... unless a 'multisend' is reported as multiple sends...
2283 2010-12-17 17:36:52 <theymos> Just consider different outputs to be different "transactions" in listtransactions.
2284 2010-12-17 17:37:02 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: how about a more accurate representation?  publish 'in' and 'out' arrays.
2285 2010-12-17 17:37:12 <jgarzik> take off the training wheels, so to speak.  :)
2286 2010-12-17 17:37:33 <jgarzik> better to force people running websites to properly handle the flexibility of transactions now, than later.
2287 2010-12-17 17:38:18 <jgarzik> theymos: yeah, that's what xlisttransactions, and the UI, currently do
2288 2010-12-17 17:38:22 <omglolbbq> ;;bc,calc 1804000
2289 2010-12-17 17:38:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1804000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 6 minutes, and 9 seconds
2290 2010-12-17 17:38:37 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  yeah.... but I want to be VERY careful not to accidently create something that is easily exploitable if the website does something in the 'obvious' way.
2291 2010-12-17 17:38:47 <omglolbbq> we're double over time!
2292 2010-12-17 17:39:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: shrug hide a 'full view' behind an option or something
2293 2010-12-17 17:40:03 <theymos> Append the output index to the transaction hash. Like "hash:index". Developers will use the entire unique value.
2294 2010-12-17 17:40:29 <jgarzik> put simply, full block and tx info should be available via RPC -somehow-, without having to hack the source.
2295 2010-12-17 17:40:32 <gavinandresen> theymos: and if there is a fee associated with the send, report it... where?
2296 2010-12-17 17:41:37 <lfm> does the fee even come from the account?
2297 2010-12-17 17:41:42 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  I think I agree, but I'd like to make sure listtransactions has all the features needed first....
2298 2010-12-17 17:41:57 <gavinandresen> lfm: yes, the fee is charged to the account.
2299 2010-12-17 17:42:30 pp22 is now known as piotrp
2300 2010-12-17 17:42:31 <theymos> The GUI doesn't show fee.
2301 2010-12-17 17:43:51 <gavinandresen> Not showing the fee isn't an option for the RPC...   So.  I'm leaning towards  "send" having "to" : { address : amount, address : amount ...}
2302 2010-12-17 17:44:01 <gavinandresen> And "receive" having "from" : address
2303 2010-12-17 17:44:05 <jgarzik> Obviously I'm biased :)  But IMO, bitcoin researchers and people seeking to better understand bitcoin, particularly programmers, would be better served by having a built-in "dump full tx" and "dump full block" features.  Being able to see a raw block really helped my understand of bitcoin more than anything else.
2304 2010-12-17 17:44:17 <jgarzik> sometimes you just have to see the raw data
2305 2010-12-17 17:44:29 <gavinandresen> That's what bitcoin block exporer is for!
2306 2010-12-17 17:44:31 <jgarzik> and the mainline RPC is a "nanny state, training wheels" version of the data.
2307 2010-12-17 17:45:01 <lfm> whats the gui then?
2308 2010-12-17 17:45:18 <gavinandresen> lfm: gui for what?  None of this changes the GUI.
2309 2010-12-17 17:45:47 <lfm> jgarzik: the bitcoin is ?? if the rpc is training wheelsa
2310 2010-12-17 17:46:01 <lfm> jgarzik: the bitcoin gui is ?? if the rpc is training wheelsa
2311 2010-12-17 17:47:05 <jgarzik> the UI is sometimes more helpful and presents more data than RPC, as noted above
2312 2010-12-17 17:47:17 <xelister> jeremydei: I am supporting all dump-data and debug feautures \o
2313 2010-12-17 17:47:21 <xelister> jgarzik: ^
2314 2010-12-17 17:47:25 <jgarzik> there is a whole lot of "protect programmers from themselves" in the RPC
2315 2010-12-17 17:47:31 <jgarzik> which I certainly understand
2316 2010-12-17 17:48:04 <xelister> "sendtoaddress" "5sasf.." 50.0 "freenet"    -> { "error: think about the children" }
2317 2010-12-17 17:48:14 <jgarzik> maybe call it 'debugblock' and 'debugtx' in RPC
2318 2010-12-17 17:48:15 <gavinandresen> It is harder than it looks-- it is pretty easy to accidentally create little edge cases that could be exploited.
2319 2010-12-17 17:48:17 <jgarzik> for a full dump
2320 2010-12-17 17:48:22 <xelister> "sendtoaddress" "5sasf.." 50.0 "stop TSA searches"    -> { "error: think about the childreeeeeeeeeeeen" }
2321 2010-12-17 17:48:35 <slush_cz> Hey guys, is there any way how to get outgoing transactions using RPC?
2322 2010-12-17 17:48:49 <xelister> slush_cz: get list of done transactions?
2323 2010-12-17 17:48:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: protecting humans from themselves is always hard ;-)  at some point you gotta Let My People Gooooooooo
2324 2010-12-17 17:49:15 <slush_cz> xelister: Yes, I see only 'getreceivedbyaccount/address'
2325 2010-12-17 17:49:20 <theymos> Stock Bitcoin will never send transactions in such a way that two outputs will show up in a transaction list. So showing a "fee" field for each transaction is safe. If someone is messing with Bitcoin internals, they can handle the duplicated fee value.
2326 2010-12-17 17:49:23 <xelister> yea and by lable...
2327 2010-12-17 17:49:37 <lfm> >
2328 2010-12-17 17:49:37 asdf30 has joined
2329 2010-12-17 17:50:40 <slush_cz> and is available listing of accounts? I created some and it is black hole, because I dont remember name
2330 2010-12-17 17:50:49 <jgarzik> slush_cz: yes
2331 2010-12-17 17:51:04 <jgarzik> slush_cz: recent svn has listaccounts(sp?)
2332 2010-12-17 17:51:16 Toadyonps3 has quit (Quit: So if a tree falls on Bill Gates in the forest,would anyone really care?)
2333 2010-12-17 17:51:16 <gavinandresen> theymos:  yeah.... I'm not worried about websites that create non-stock transactions.  I'm worried about hackers who might figure out that the account-tallying code on a website doesn't properly handle multi-send transactions with fees, so they create a bunch of them and exploit it somehow....
2334 2010-12-17 17:51:34 <slush_cz> jgarzik: Oh, it is in .3.19, right?
2335 2010-12-17 17:51:41 <slush_cz> I probably have to upgrade
2336 2010-12-17 17:51:50 <lfm> ya how to find a list of account names which have no transactions
2337 2010-12-17 17:52:16 <gavinandresen> listaccounts that will be in 0.3.20 gives you all accounts and their balances.
2338 2010-12-17 17:52:51 <lfm> k cool
2339 2010-12-17 17:53:15 <gavinandresen> theymos:  you don't like  "category" : "send", "toaddress" : { "address" : amount, "address" : amount }  ??
2340 2010-12-17 17:53:34 <slush_cz> great, thanks
2341 2010-12-17 17:53:51 <slush_cz> and outgoing transactions?
2342 2010-12-17 17:54:06 <slush_cz> when I don't care on accounts
2343 2010-12-17 17:54:33 <theymos> gavinandresen: That seems even more prone to misuse. It's not a traditional account ledger -- people might assume that there will be only one address.
2344 2010-12-17 17:54:40 <gavinandresen> listtransactions '*' in 0.3.20 will give you all transactions to/from your wallet.
2345 2010-12-17 17:54:41 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2346 2010-12-17 17:55:04 <slush_cz> oh, ok
2347 2010-12-17 17:55:45 <gavinandresen> theymos:  there would still be a total amount, and returning an Object for toaddress should make people realize multi-sends are possible.  I think it will make errors less likely.
2348 2010-12-17 17:56:38 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 212255
2349 2010-12-17 17:56:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 212255 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes, and 59 seconds
2350 2010-12-17 17:57:11 <lfm> why have multisends?
2351 2010-12-17 17:57:32 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: what is the map key for Object?
2352 2010-12-17 17:57:36 * jgarzik was expecting Array
2353 2010-12-17 17:57:41 <gavinandresen> lfm:  irrelevant question-- they are possible, so they must be designed for.
2354 2010-12-17 17:57:51 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  bitcoin address
2355 2010-12-17 17:57:55 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 1802529
2356 2010-12-17 17:57:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1802529 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 6 minutes, and 33 seconds
2357 2010-12-17 17:58:03 <lfm> they could be forbidden
2358 2010-12-17 17:58:10 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 23000000
2359 2010-12-17 17:58:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 23000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 38 minutes and 7 seconds
2360 2010-12-17 17:58:17 asdf58 has joined
2361 2010-12-17 17:58:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ok, what is the map value?
2362 2010-12-17 17:58:46 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  amount sent to that address
2363 2010-12-17 17:58:51 <theymos> I don't see how someone could possibly end up with odd *sends* in their balance without knowing about it.
2364 2010-12-17 17:59:12 <lfm> they could forget
2365 2010-12-17 17:59:13 <gavinandresen> theymos:  unless a website allows wallet key exports....
2366 2010-12-17 17:59:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ...and surely those key/value pairs are wrapped inside an Array?
2367 2010-12-17 17:59:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: no possibility of same bitcoin addr?  or are you summing?
2368 2010-12-17 18:00:03 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 1955
2369 2010-12-17 18:00:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1955 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 44 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes, and 9 seconds
2370 2010-12-17 18:00:05 <theymos> That's such a rare situation. I think it's better to keep a traditional view that people would expect from PayPal or whatever, and then let people doing advanced stuff like that deal with the edge cases.
2371 2010-12-17 18:00:19 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 17624
2372 2010-12-17 18:00:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 17624 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 4 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes, and 39 seconds
2373 2010-12-17 18:00:20 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  would have to sum.   Would probably want to sum for "receive" end of things, too....
2374 2010-12-17 18:00:51 asdf30 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2375 2010-12-17 18:04:04 <cosurgi> what is ~/.bitcoin/database/ and why is it empty now, while before there were 190 MB worth of log.* files?
2376 2010-12-17 18:04:16 CyanDynamo has joined
2377 2010-12-17 18:04:31 foxstrike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2378 2010-12-17 18:04:31 <theymos> Actually, on second thought this is better. Most people will only see a PayPal-like view, anyway, and looping through an object is easier if you're doing advanced stuff.
2379 2010-12-17 18:05:11 <nanotube> fwiw, i like the "toaddress" : { "address" : amount, "address" : amount } output. seems nice and complete...
2380 2010-12-17 18:05:33 <jgarzik> nanotube: not really complete.  it's a summary as gavinandresen just noted.
2381 2010-12-17 18:06:04 <nanotube> well, if it includes all the ins, and all the outs... what's missing, jgarzik ?
2382 2010-12-17 18:06:06 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:   if you want complete, call a future version of gettransaction
2383 2010-12-17 18:06:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: or maybe just provide full block dump, and tell people to use that for anything more advanced
2384 2010-12-17 18:07:19 <gavinandresen> getblock first, which gives you all the relevant txids, and then gettransaction a bunch of times.....
2385 2010-12-17 18:07:44 <gavinandresen> ... although that's what block explorer is for!
2386 2010-12-17 18:08:45 <gavinandresen> Besides implementing a block explorer clone, are there any other use cases for "tell me the nonce in this block" or other super-detailed info?
2387 2010-12-17 18:09:49 <theymos> You could use the nonce to send messages. It's also interesting statistically.
2388 2010-12-17 18:09:52 jjjx has joined
2389 2010-12-17 18:09:59 <jjjx> Hello hello
2390 2010-12-17 18:10:06 <jjjx> Wow, a lot more people in here than last time I was here!
2391 2010-12-17 18:10:16 Tester has joined
2392 2010-12-17 18:12:23 Tester has quit (Client Quit)
2393 2010-12-17 18:15:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I don't see that people want to be implementing a block explorer clone to want getblock.  any researcher looking at bitcoin would be able to programmatically examine the block chain.  having a local debug-block interface makes a lot of sense long term.
2394 2010-12-17 18:16:12 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: bitcoinwatch uses getblock to dump each block into a database, and than analyze it for number of transactions etc.
2395 2010-12-17 18:16:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: plenty of interesting data to derive from the block chain, load into a spreadsheet, etc.
2396 2010-12-17 18:17:01 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ... except that long-term I think many nodes will just have block headers and a subset of transactions.
2397 2010-12-17 18:17:19 foxstrike has joined
2398 2010-12-17 18:17:33 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  and aren't there way more important things on the priority list?
2399 2010-12-17 18:17:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: this item is already implemented
2400 2010-12-17 18:17:55 <theymos> You can be sure to connect to nodes with NODE_NETWORK set to get the full blocks.
2401 2010-12-17 18:18:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: so priority is not an issue
2402 2010-12-17 18:19:12 <jgarzik> it should be a fundamental right to get a full data dump out of one's software :)
2403 2010-12-17 18:19:45 <jgarzik> roadblocks to extracting unedited data from a database seem incongruous with open source philosophy.
2404 2010-12-17 18:19:47 <EvanR-work> is mining ok from behind a nat?
2405 2010-12-17 18:19:54 <jgarzik> EvanR-work: yes
2406 2010-12-17 18:20:24 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  I think the first thing I did when I found out about bitcoin was write bitcointools, so you don't have to convince me....
2407 2010-12-17 18:22:34 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  I want Satoshi to be working on a fast, doesn't-have-to-download-the-whole-blockchain lightweight client, not thinking about exactly what all the fields in getblock/gettransaction aught to be named, and how they will work when there IS a fast lightweight client.
2408 2010-12-17 18:22:47 StrangeCharm has joined
2409 2010-12-17 18:23:51 <cosurgi> and a pooled client.
2410 2010-12-17 18:23:52 <kiba> gavinandresen: did ya email Satoshi about that? Or he already declined your suggestion?
2411 2010-12-17 18:24:06 <kiba> pooled client is an auxlury feature in my opinion, cosurgi
2412 2010-12-17 18:24:11 <gavinandresen> kiba: about what?
2413 2010-12-17 18:24:24 <kiba> the whole work on lightweight client
2414 2010-12-17 18:24:48 <gavinandresen> kiba:  not yet-- I'm going to ask him about priorities today.
2415 2010-12-17 18:25:11 <MT`AwAy> gavinandresen: what about adding the nodes from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes on top of the fallback node list in the code?
2416 2010-12-17 18:25:28 <jgarzik> I would rather satoshi be a Linus Torvalds:  accept patches publicly submitted, or reject them with public, detailed comments.  rate of bitcoin change would increase dramatically.  satoshi would have more programmers if he would guide rather than try to do all the work himself.
2417 2010-12-17 18:25:31 <kiba> I think making the network more resilent would be a top prority
2418 2010-12-17 18:25:43 <jgarzik> FOSS projects relearn this over and over, sadly.
2419 2010-12-17 18:25:46 <devon_hillard> ok, would you be interested in buying a news.ycombinator.com account? +500 karma, useful for downvoting folks
2420 2010-12-17 18:25:50 <jgarzik> as do proprietary projects.
2421 2010-12-17 18:25:55 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  I'm planning on emailing him about project management today, too....
2422 2010-12-17 18:26:06 <gavinandresen> ... and maybe switching to git....
2423 2010-12-17 18:26:11 <kiba> why satoshi is still using svn?
2424 2010-12-17 18:26:15 <nanotube> gavinandresen: nice :)
2425 2010-12-17 18:26:27 <nanotube> jgarzik's suggestion on public patch review is a good one, i think.
2426 2010-12-17 18:26:27 <cosurgi> what is ~/.bitcoin/database/ and why is it empty now, while before there were 190 MB worth of log.* files?
2427 2010-12-17 18:26:34 <jgarzik> Linux kernel went through a "Linus doesn't scale" period a long time ago.  We should not have to relearn these lessons.
2428 2010-12-17 18:26:36 genjix has joined
2429 2010-12-17 18:26:44 <kiba> Satoshi is a genuis!
2430 2010-12-17 18:26:45 <jgarzik> Public comments about patches, even incorrect patches, teach all.
2431 2010-12-17 18:26:50 <cosurgi> .. maybe because I restarted bitcoind.... IIRC
2432 2010-12-17 18:26:51 <kiba> that why he code everything himself
2433 2010-12-17 18:26:52 <jgarzik> We all learn, and all get better as bitcoin programmers.
2434 2010-12-17 18:26:59 <genjix> that editor that deleted the wikipedia article is the biggest piece of fucking shit. hes a cunt.
2435 2010-12-17 18:27:03 <genjix> whine whine whine
2436 2010-12-17 18:27:07 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  anything pointers to advice RE: how to scale an open source project?
2437 2010-12-17 18:27:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: google for search phrase "linus doesn't scale"
2438 2010-12-17 18:27:33 <kiba> genjix: wikipedia politics for ya ;)
2439 2010-12-17 18:27:38 <genjix> jgarzik: http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/discussion/11/pr-ideas/#Item_1
2440 2010-12-17 18:27:43 <cosurgi> genjix: but article is there. for now :-)
2441 2010-12-17 18:27:56 <genjix> kiba: no not wikipedia politics. that guy is a real bastard.
2442 2010-12-17 18:28:11 <genjix> hes a real piece of shit.
2443 2010-12-17 18:28:15 <genjix> nasty work.
2444 2010-12-17 18:28:15 <kiba> what he's complaining about?
2445 2010-12-17 18:28:28 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: thanks
2446 2010-12-17 18:28:46 <kiba> he also thinks we conspire to make bitcoin notable by piggybacking on wikileaks
2447 2010-12-17 18:28:51 <genjix> he's got a personal vendetta against me. keeps following me around wikipedia.
2448 2010-12-17 18:28:58 <MT`AwAy> xD
2449 2010-12-17 18:28:58 <genjix> hes reported my user page
2450 2010-12-17 18:29:04 <genjix> deleted images i uploaded
2451 2010-12-17 18:29:09 <genjix> trying to cause me hassle.
2452 2010-12-17 18:29:10 <cosurgi> omg
2453 2010-12-17 18:29:46 <kiba> yep
2454 2010-12-17 18:29:49 <kiba> that's wikipolitics
2455 2010-12-17 18:30:09 <genjix> he suggested on the bitcoin talkpage that i'm trying to get _my_ forums/chat linked in to promote them.
2456 2010-12-17 18:30:24 <kiba> you have a forum?
2457 2010-12-17 18:30:30 <genjix> no
2458 2010-12-17 18:30:36 <genjix> but he insinuates that i own them
2459 2010-12-17 18:30:43 <genjix> and that im trying to promote them there.
2460 2010-12-17 18:30:51 <kiba> bitcoin.org forum?
2461 2010-12-17 18:30:58 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2462 2010-12-17 18:30:59 <genjix> yes and this channel
2463 2010-12-17 18:31:02 <kiba> well, he's going to learn that sooner or later that bitcoin is going to get more famous
2464 2010-12-17 18:31:37 <kiba> and ten years later, he's going to have accept bitcoin or he will be a laughingstock
2465 2010-12-17 18:31:56 <kiba> ignorance, riddicule, opposition, acceptance
2466 2010-12-17 18:31:56 <genjix> and he's deleted my comments from the talkpage
2467 2010-12-17 18:32:38 <genjix> wtf is wrong with him? how do such people exist?
2468 2010-12-17 18:33:03 <kiba> welcome to the pyschodiversity of humanity, genjix
2469 2010-12-17 18:33:04 <nanotube> genjix: if rapists and murderers exist... wikipedia trolls are not far behind.
2470 2010-12-17 18:33:42 <nanotube> well... not "not far behind in terms of how bad they are", but i mean... not a surprise that they too, exist.
2471 2010-12-17 18:34:06 <jgarzik> genjix: just keep a log of these activities somewhere he cannot delete, then move on.  just like terrorists, if griefers cause you grief, they've won...
2472 2010-12-17 18:34:28 <jgarzik> he's just another asshole typing on a computer, nothing more.
2473 2010-12-17 18:34:29 <kiba> he should stick to his iceberge article
2474 2010-12-17 18:34:42 <genjix> whatever, just going to forget about bitcoin article and him.
2475 2010-12-17 18:34:47 RichardG_ has joined
2476 2010-12-17 18:34:47 RichardG_ has quit (Changing host)
2477 2010-12-17 18:34:47 RichardG_ has joined
2478 2010-12-17 18:35:00 <RichardG_> !pool
2479 2010-12-17 18:35:18 <jjjx> Wikipedia editors are an interesting breed. I'm not sure what wires would have to be crossed in my head to want to have MY say applied to the whole of human knowledge...
2480 2010-12-17 18:35:19 <genjix> i think he has a vendetta against bitcoin + bitcoiners because people called him stupid on the forums.
2481 2010-12-17 18:35:41 <kiba> I was a wikipedian, jjjx
2482 2010-12-17 18:35:41 <RichardG_> !pool
2483 2010-12-17 18:35:43 <RichardG> Could not obtain pooled miner status - log empty? Last log line: Attempting to connect to 173.255.205.10:8335
2484 2010-12-17 18:35:47 <genjix> so this guy is obv a loser and a bit fucked up in the head.
2485 2010-12-17 18:35:53 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2486 2010-12-17 18:36:04 <jjjx> kiba: So you can answer me then.
2487 2010-12-17 18:36:18 <jjjx> kiba: Really, I don't get it. :-)
2488 2010-12-17 18:36:20 <kiba> jjjx: I think it's idealism and being part of something bigger than yourself
2489 2010-12-17 18:36:45 <kiba> I left to work on other wiki sites
2490 2010-12-17 18:36:47 <kiba> like comixpedia
2491 2010-12-17 18:36:55 <kiba> and eventually libregamewiki
2492 2010-12-17 18:37:00 <jjjx> kiba: The project's idealism was totally lost when everything interesting became 'non-notable'
2493 2010-12-17 18:37:02 <MT`AwAy> kiba: http://freekvermeulen.blogspot.com/2008/08/monkey-story-experiment-involved-5.html ?
2494 2010-12-17 18:37:10 <RichardG_> !pool
2495 2010-12-17 18:37:11 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 21secs ago): 69 clients, 103276 khash/s, next block est. 5days 21hrs 32mins 8secs
2496 2010-12-17 18:37:12 <genjix> jjjx: i like writing and i like knowledge.
2497 2010-12-17 18:37:13 <newsham> who runs http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php ?  I'm guessing (but not sure) that the input box "Hash Rate (khps)" is really "hps" not "khps" right?
2498 2010-12-17 18:37:13 <kiba> jjjx: that why I left
2499 2010-12-17 18:37:24 <RichardG_> my failover doesn't prevent the server from going down on middle of mining though, gotta fix it later
2500 2010-12-17 18:37:26 RichardG_ has quit (Client Quit)
2501 2010-12-17 18:38:04 <nanotube> newsham: no
2502 2010-12-17 18:38:07 <nanotube> it is khps
2503 2010-12-17 18:38:14 AAA_awright_ has joined
2504 2010-12-17 18:38:15 <nanotube> newsham: you can double check your results with the bc,calc command here
2505 2010-12-17 18:38:18 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 1000
2506 2010-12-17 18:38:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 34 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 48 seconds
2507 2010-12-17 18:38:21 <jjjx> I hope WP gets its act together.
2508 2010-12-17 18:38:31 <kiba> jjjx: wikipedia works for the most part
2509 2010-12-17 18:38:50 <newsham> nanotube: does bitcoin's "getinfo" "hashespersec" field give you khps not hps?
2510 2010-12-17 18:38:51 <kiba> it have a lot of rules and very rude editors who delete anything they never heard of
2511 2010-12-17 18:39:11 <jjjx> kiba: I guess you can call that working. ;-)
2512 2010-12-17 18:39:22 <jjjx> kiba: You're right though. I use it every day.
2513 2010-12-17 18:39:28 <nanotube> newsham: getinfo gives you hps, not khps
2514 2010-12-17 18:39:35 <kiba> I guess
2515 2010-12-17 18:39:41 <kiba> wikipedia stops being so special these days
2516 2010-12-17 18:39:53 <kiba> they're in the final stage of acceptance
2517 2010-12-17 18:40:03 <jjjx> kiba: Acceptance? :)
2518 2010-12-17 18:40:05 AAA_awright has quit (Disconnected by services)
2519 2010-12-17 18:40:08 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2520 2010-12-17 18:40:10 <newsham> nanotube: so according to that my machine gets 3752khps, and the calculator says thats about 162 days
2521 2010-12-17 18:40:13 <newsham> is that right?
2522 2010-12-17 18:40:17 <kiba> ignorance. ridicule. opposition. acceptance.
2523 2010-12-17 18:40:27 <jjjx> Ahh
2524 2010-12-17 18:40:31 <nanotube> newsham: what's your machine have in terms of hardware?
2525 2010-12-17 18:40:42 <newsham> core i5.  four cores.
2526 2010-12-17 18:40:47 <midnightmagic> strange that bitcoin was deleted considering the current "value" of the currency as a whole.
2527 2010-12-17 18:40:53 <nanotube> newsham: sounds about right
2528 2010-12-17 18:41:11 <kiba> midnightmagic: a million dollars is not seriously a lot.
2529 2010-12-17 18:41:17 <nanotube> newsham: cpu mining is pretty unproductive these days. i suggest you join the ,,pool if you want to see some coin sooner rather than later (or never)
2530 2010-12-17 18:41:17 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2531 2010-12-17 18:41:36 <kiba> when I was a wikipedian, we still have people posting info about what they learn about wikipedia
2532 2010-12-17 18:41:42 <kiba> the 'new' stage
2533 2010-12-17 18:43:07 genjix has left ()
2534 2010-12-17 18:43:15 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 1800000
2535 2010-12-17 18:43:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 7 minutes, and 14 seconds
2536 2010-12-17 18:43:30 <nanotube> slush_cz: looks like the pool should have generated a block already... what's the holdup? :)
2537 2010-12-17 18:44:04 <sjaak> nanotube: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.msg31145#msg31145 <- it did somehow
2538 2010-12-17 18:45:06 <nanotube> ah... how long ago was that?
2539 2010-12-17 18:45:18 <newsham> ;;bc,calc 3943
2540 2010-12-17 18:45:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3943 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 22 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 8 minutes, and 18 seconds
2541 2010-12-17 18:46:04 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 2500000
2542 2010-12-17 18:46:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 hours, 50 minutes, and 48 seconds
2543 2010-12-17 18:46:32 <sjaak> about 45 mins ago
2544 2010-12-17 18:47:03 <sjaak> stats page not updated yet it seems
2545 2010-12-17 18:47:34 <midnightmagic> kiba: it is when the currency isn't tangible, isn't associated with any MMORPG, and is in active use by as many people as it is.
2546 2010-12-17 18:48:04 <kiba> midnightmagic: dude, it's signfigant to you
2547 2010-12-17 18:48:33 <kiba> is a currency signifigant if it is used by a thousand persons?
2548 2010-12-17 18:48:38 <kiba> ten thousand?
2549 2010-12-17 18:48:43 <RichardG> following mIRC's limitation on not being able to parse messages you input, I'll append an utility to obtain !pool without having to open a server window
2550 2010-12-17 18:48:43 <kiba> hundred thousand?
2551 2010-12-17 18:48:47 <midnightmagic> when it's novel, yes of course.
2552 2010-12-17 18:50:05 <newsham> what's a typical gpu performance?
2553 2010-12-17 18:50:09 <midnightmagic> and a million dollars is a lot for a concept in the incubation stage.
2554 2010-12-17 18:50:11 <nanotube> sjaak: yea stats still shows 20k+ shares...
2555 2010-12-17 18:50:18 <piotrp> what's the reason of the code mixed in the header files?
2556 2010-12-17 18:50:27 <midnightmagic> newsham: a single Radeon 5870 can do about 300Mhash/sec.
2557 2010-12-17 18:50:29 <piotrp> in the satishi bitcoin client
2558 2010-12-17 18:50:32 <nanotube> RichardG: since doublec's pool is pretty much dead... you should switch to the slush pool.
2559 2010-12-17 18:51:12 <newsham> mm: so aprox 75x a core i5?  sound about right?
2560 2010-12-17 18:52:15 <midnightmagic> Hrm.. not sure. My AMD 6-core 1090T can do about 2400Khps, (so, about 14.4Mhps)
2561 2010-12-17 18:52:37 <midnightmagic> (so, about 21 times as fast as a 6-core 1090T)
2562 2010-12-17 18:52:40 <newsham> my core i5 is about 3900 on 4 cores.
2563 2010-12-17 18:52:50 <midnightmagic> total or 3900/core?
2564 2010-12-17 18:52:54 <newsham> total.
2565 2010-12-17 18:53:02 <midnightmagic> that doesn't sound right.
2566 2010-12-17 18:53:13 <RichardG> !pool
2567 2010-12-17 18:53:23 <RichardG> hmm
2568 2010-12-17 18:53:29 <midnightmagic> BTW, coincidentally, a 9600 GT does almost exactly the same as a 1090T performance-wise.
2569 2010-12-17 18:53:47 <RichardG> !pool
2570 2010-12-17 18:53:59 <newsham> 3943614 "hashespersec" when its consuming all four cps (according to system monitor),  no -4way (halves performance here)
2571 2010-12-17 18:54:02 <RichardG> !pool
2572 2010-12-17 18:54:08 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2573 2010-12-17 18:54:17 RG has joined
2574 2010-12-17 18:54:17 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!pool
2575 2010-12-17 18:54:18 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 17mins 29secs ago): 70 clients, 103975 khash/s, next block est. 5days 20hrs 35mins 3secs
2576 2010-12-17 18:54:19 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2577 2010-12-17 18:54:58 <newsham> mm: what am I doing wrong? :)
2578 2010-12-17 18:55:10 <newsham> lemme run on single core to compare
2579 2010-12-17 18:55:15 <midnightmagic> if you hang on a second, I'll tell you how fast a highly overclocked Core i7 940 is.
2580 2010-12-17 18:55:32 <nanotube> midnightmagic: i think newsham is about par for the course for an i5
2581 2010-12-17 18:55:51 <xelister> --------------------------------------------------------------
2582 2010-12-17 18:55:52 <xelister> ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION
2583 2010-12-17 18:55:54 <xelister> --------------------------------------------------------------
2584 2010-12-17 18:55:56 <midnightmagic> wow, I guess my idea of how fast an i5 is is way out of whackj.
2585 2010-12-17 18:55:57 <xelister> flash news!
2586 2010-12-17 18:55:58 <newsham> core i7 can use -4way right?
2587 2010-12-17 18:55:59 <xelister> mining
2588 2010-12-17 18:56:00 <xelister> on cpu
2589 2010-12-17 18:56:02 <xelister> is
2590 2010-12-17 18:56:03 <xelister> fucking.
2591 2010-12-17 18:56:05 <xelister> useless.
2592 2010-12-17 18:56:06 <xelister> stop it.
2593 2010-12-17 18:56:15 <newsham> which gets it about 2x perf over no -4way?
2594 2010-12-17 18:56:20 <RichardG> my i5 M430 got what's considered sub-average.
2595 2010-12-17 18:56:21 <xelister> it is x100 slower then on similar priced GPU card so stop being retarded
2596 2010-12-17 18:56:34 <MT`AwAy> xelister: just let people spend their energy & cpu time on whatever they want
2597 2010-12-17 18:56:48 <xelister> MT`AwAy: just saying it is fucking stupid
2598 2010-12-17 18:56:58 <midnightmagic> hey man, don't be douchy. long as they know how long they can expect to play the lottery, who cares? :)
2599 2010-12-17 18:57:02 <Granttt> i have 486-sx-25mhz, wonder how much it'd do ;)
2600 2010-12-17 18:57:10 <xelister> not only notprofitable, but also /worthless/ they will never get any blocks
2601 2010-12-17 18:57:13 <gavinandresen> mining on the -testnet keeps my office a little warmer
2602 2010-12-17 18:57:16 <midnightmagic> I have an Amiga 3000..! :-)
2603 2010-12-17 18:57:17 StrangeCharm has joined
2604 2010-12-17 18:57:20 <nanotube> xelister: i run it on one core of my vps... cuz i pay for the vps anyway. zero marginal cost.
2605 2010-12-17 18:57:24 <MT`AwAy> xelister: I'm using idle cpu time on my servers to generate bitcoins, and I get blocks from times to times, and I don't need more :p
2606 2010-12-17 18:57:32 <newsham> ok, 1 core says 1705.   though I should clarify, when I say "4 cores" I think thats two cores with hyperhtreading (not sure?)
2607 2010-12-17 18:57:37 <xelister> or, pehraps 1 of the miners will win his priceless 10 USD... woooo hooooo, wait, oh rights, 10 usd is shit
2608 2010-12-17 18:57:37 <RichardG> Granttt: I'd rather do it on my on-storage P2/233, 64 MB
2609 2010-12-17 18:57:48 <edcba> i should install bitcoin stealthily on production servers...
2610 2010-12-17 18:58:03 <edcba> or incorporate it into my code !
2611 2010-12-17 18:58:03 <RichardG> edcba: yesterday I suggested a friend to do that
2612 2010-12-17 18:58:05 <nanotube> newsham: what model is your i5?
2613 2010-12-17 18:58:09 <xelister> nanotube: you will also get NOTHING out of it, so even with no cost... still you loose time and effort on uttery useless task ;)
2614 2010-12-17 18:58:25 <nanotube> xelister: not nothing - i'm already due 0.007 btc from the pooled-miner block that was just solved.!
2615 2010-12-17 18:58:33 <xelister> oh shit 0.007 btc
2616 2010-12-17 18:58:47 <omglolbbq> this block is already taking 19 hours on 2 Gkhash :O
2617 2010-12-17 18:58:51 <slush_cz> nanotube: why do you think?
2618 2010-12-17 18:58:53 <xelister> that is like, almost, 1/10th of a cent! woo pieeeeeeeeeee
2619 2010-12-17 18:58:53 <nanotube> hey, it's free. and i'm contributing a little something something to the network...
2620 2010-12-17 18:58:54 <newsham> M560 2.67ghz stepping 05
2621 2010-12-17 18:59:00 <slush_cz> I dont see any new block, but it would be nice
2622 2010-12-17 18:59:03 <nanotube> slush_cz: it says i have 4 shares on my account?
2623 2010-12-17 18:59:34 <nanotube> slush_cz: wait, so it hasn't generated a block since last evening?
2624 2010-12-17 18:59:36 <xelister> nanotube: you would get more money from me for taking 30 seconds to send me drawing of a cock (I need it for "Ati sucks cocks" picture)
2625 2010-12-17 18:59:42 <slush_cz> no
2626 2010-12-17 18:59:56 <slush_cz> nanotube: Yesterday was very lucky.
2627 2010-12-17 18:59:59 <nanotube> slush_cz: ah... sjaak pointed to http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.msg31145#msg31145... i guess that was earlier.
2628 2010-12-17 19:00:08 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 1800000
2629 2010-12-17 19:00:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 7 minutes, and 14 seconds
2630 2010-12-17 19:00:09 <slush_cz> There were three blocks, but not 1700mhash whole day
2631 2010-12-17 19:00:20 <nanotube> slush_cz: avg should be 8 hrs now
2632 2010-12-17 19:00:20 <nanotube> but ok
2633 2010-12-17 19:00:29 <xelister> nanotube: so? jump at this marvelous occasion, I pay 0.008 BTC forit
2634 2010-12-17 19:00:31 <nanotube> well, when a block /is/ generated, i'm expecting about .007 :)
2635 2010-12-17 19:00:44 <slush_cz> Current avg is 12 for those two days. Little high, but nothing extreme
2636 2010-12-17 19:00:44 <nanotube> xelister: heh don't think so. running the miner, once it's up, is zero effort.
2637 2010-12-17 19:00:47 <xelister> ah so you yet earned ZERO ?
2638 2010-12-17 19:00:49 <xelister> lolololol.
2639 2010-12-17 19:00:59 <nanotube> xelister: i just started the miner last night.
2640 2010-12-17 19:01:07 <xelister> nanotube: I will give you GUARANTEED 0.07 BTC  right now,  more then this stupid cpu poll shit,
2641 2010-12-17 19:01:18 <xelister> if you /j #mac  and say "you are fags lol"
2642 2010-12-17 19:01:28 <xelister> it will be easier then VPS. and also would do something actually usefull\
2643 2010-12-17 19:01:30 <nanotube> xelister: just let me enjoy my pooled cpu miner, dammit!
2644 2010-12-17 19:01:38 <xelister> nanotube: no <_<
2645 2010-12-17 19:01:48 <omglolbbq> it's about time for a block to be found
2646 2010-12-17 19:02:11 <newsham> someone should send me a penny (0.04btc). ;-)
2647 2010-12-17 19:02:20 <xelister> omglolbbq: /j #mac and say "you are all fags lol" to get GUARANTEED 0.007 BTC
2648 2010-12-17 19:02:21 <xelister> !
2649 2010-12-17 19:02:34 <edcba> nanotube: give me any amount of btc and i'll double it in 10 days ***GUARANTEED*** !!!!!!
2650 2010-12-17 19:02:34 <nanotube> xelister: how are you going to send .007 btc?
2651 2010-12-17 19:02:58 <nanotube> edcba: haha, have you been hanging out with the hyip scammers lately? :)
2652 2010-12-17 19:03:05 <slush_cz> xelister: I just come, what you talk about please?
2653 2010-12-17 19:03:11 <edcba> hyip ?
2654 2010-12-17 19:03:17 <edcba> no not that ones
2655 2010-12-17 19:03:18 <nanotube> edcba: high yield investment program
2656 2010-12-17 19:03:21 <xelister> slush_cz: about what?
2657 2010-12-17 19:03:35 <xelister> nanotube: normally, give bitcoin address
2658 2010-12-17 19:03:43 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2659 2010-12-17 19:03:47 <nanotube> slush_cz: xelister is trying to convince everyone not to run pooled cpu mining because he thinks it's too low return.
2660 2010-12-17 19:03:48 <xelister> wait - isnt that below the minimum of 0.01
2661 2010-12-17 19:03:49 <RichardG> !faucet
2662 2010-12-17 19:04:04 <RichardG> er whoops, noticed a FAIL on my script
2663 2010-12-17 19:04:05 <nanotube> xelister: yes it is. i'm glad you still can do the > operation in your head. :P hehe
2664 2010-12-17 19:04:07 <xelister> more exactly, it makes me sad to see bunch of people acting so illogically ;)
2665 2010-12-17 19:04:31 <midnightmagic> i don't think you understand the meaning of that word.. :)
2666 2010-12-17 19:04:34 <xelister> nanotube: I thought about it too and assumed you can also do math, so I guessed this rule doesnt work the way I thought it does
2667 2010-12-17 19:04:54 <xelister> this is a nice point though
2668 2010-12-17 19:05:01 <edcba> pooled cpu mining can't earn you more than non pooled
2669 2010-12-17 19:05:03 <nanotube> yes, i can do math. .007 btc, at 0 marginal cost, means /infinite percent profit/!!!
2670 2010-12-17 19:05:05 <xelister> *IF* your usless poll will ever mine the 50 BTC,
2671 2010-12-17 19:05:08 <xelister> it will be unable
2672 2010-12-17 19:05:13 <xelister> to send you your share!
2673 2010-12-17 19:05:18 <xelister> because of the threshold 0.01 !!! HAHAHAH
2674 2010-12-17 19:05:21 <xelister> fail fail doubel fail
2675 2010-12-17 19:05:23 <nanotube> it will once my balance accumulates to > 0.01
2676 2010-12-17 19:05:28 <RichardG> !faucet
2677 2010-12-17 19:05:31 <xelister> nanotube: hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
2678 2010-12-17 19:05:33 <nanotube> which it will after... 2 blocks
2679 2010-12-17 19:05:40 <xelister> yes, sure your mining poll will make 2 blocks =)
2680 2010-12-17 19:05:41 sgornick has joined
2681 2010-12-17 19:05:46 RG has joined
2682 2010-12-17 19:05:46 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|$gettok($sock($sockname).mark,2-,32)
2683 2010-12-17 19:05:48 <xelister> in 1 year, during which time the diff rises x1000
2684 2010-12-17 19:05:48 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2685 2010-12-17 19:05:52 <xelister> so, uhm, never
2686 2010-12-17 19:05:54 <nanotube> xelister: pool is currently doing 1.8 ghps. it'll make blocks.
2687 2010-12-17 19:06:08 <nanotube> so uhm... not never.
2688 2010-12-17 19:06:10 <omglolbbq> nanotube, it should have already if you ask me :P
2689 2010-12-17 19:06:18 <xelister> 1.8 gphs
2690 2010-12-17 19:06:18 <RichardG> !faucet
2691 2010-12-17 19:06:20 <midnightmagic> huh. Core i7 940 overclocked sucks ass. 1400hash/sec/core.
2692 2010-12-17 19:06:28 <xelister> ok then nanotube you convinced me, you may in fact get 0.01 btc.
2693 2010-12-17 19:06:29 <nanotube> omglolbbq: heh well it made a few yesterday... just the vagaries of randomness
2694 2010-12-17 19:06:35 RG has joined
2695 2010-12-17 19:06:36 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!faucet
2696 2010-12-17 19:06:38 <RichardG> Unable to obtain faucet status
2697 2010-12-17 19:06:38 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2698 2010-12-17 19:06:46 <xelister> nanotube: while I pointed you to more sure and faste and easier way =)
2699 2010-12-17 19:07:03 <nanotube> yea, except that i don't like to insult people, or drawing penises.
2700 2010-12-17 19:07:15 <xelister> what kind of irc user are you :P
2701 2010-12-17 19:07:17 <nanotube> so the marginal cost of earning btc from you is non-zero.
2702 2010-12-17 19:07:42 <nanotube> well, i do like to insult people that deserve it. :) but not random people i don't know. :P
2703 2010-12-17 19:07:42 <RichardG> !faucet
2704 2010-12-17 19:08:00 RG has joined
2705 2010-12-17 19:08:01 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!faucet
2706 2010-12-17 19:08:02 <RichardG> Unable to obtain faucet status
2707 2010-12-17 19:08:03 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2708 2010-12-17 19:08:05 <RichardG> hmm
2709 2010-12-17 19:08:40 <xelister> nanotube: they are not randome people
2710 2010-12-17 19:08:44 <xelister> they are mac users >_>
2711 2010-12-17 19:08:56 <nanotube> haha still too broad of a category.
2712 2010-12-17 19:08:57 <xelister> its just stating the obvious
2713 2010-12-17 19:09:01 <RichardG> !faucet
2714 2010-12-17 19:09:12 <xelister> alternativly you could do same to Flash developers group if there is such (officiall)
2715 2010-12-17 19:09:17 RG has joined
2716 2010-12-17 19:09:17 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!faucet
2717 2010-12-17 19:09:18 <RichardG> The faucet has 380.42 BTC available
2718 2010-12-17 19:09:19 <xelister> i.e. adobe
2719 2010-12-17 19:09:20 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2720 2010-12-17 19:09:23 <RichardG> works
2721 2010-12-17 19:09:56 <newsham> midnightmagic: as I increase #cores:  1705, 2996, 3435, 3891.
2722 2010-12-17 19:10:07 <newsham> i guess thats the diff between real cores and hyperthreads...
2723 2010-12-17 19:10:14 <xelister> nanotube: I could pay you this for running a freenet node, even  ONE HUNDRET TIMES MORE then you will get from pooled -> 2 BTC
2724 2010-12-17 19:10:57 <RichardG> let me check out the pool, look if it did update
2725 2010-12-17 19:10:58 <RichardG> !pool
2726 2010-12-17 19:11:15 RG has joined
2727 2010-12-17 19:11:15 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!pool
2728 2010-12-17 19:11:16 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 34mins 27secs ago): 70 clients, 103873 khash/s, next block est. 5days 20hrs 43mins 20secs
2729 2010-12-17 19:11:17 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2730 2010-12-17 19:12:23 <xelister> ATTENTION POOLED MINER USERS.    ocassion to earn x2 times more then from pooled, and guaranteed!  Write on your hand "xelister rocks lol" with a pen and send me a (>1Mpix) photo (hand and most of your posture / room etc so it is obvious its not a fake) and get your reward (limited offer: up to 100 first customers will be served)
2731 2010-12-17 19:12:39 <xelister> * of 0.02 BTC
2732 2010-12-17 19:12:45 <xelister> >_>
2733 2010-12-17 19:12:46 <RichardG> LOL
2734 2010-12-17 19:13:05 <xelister> this is how fucking stupid pooled mining is - the above offer actually makes more damn sense
2735 2010-12-17 19:13:46 <RichardG> xelister: if you call pooled AND cpu mining useless
2736 2010-12-17 19:13:56 <xelister> pooled cpu mining
2737 2010-12-17 19:14:00 <RichardG> try looking at the fact a GeForce 4 MX440 has no CUDA
2738 2010-12-17 19:14:38 <xelister> and...?
2739 2010-12-17 19:14:44 <[Noodles]> as if we would care what xelister thinks, or says
2740 2010-12-17 19:14:58 <xelister> nowdays mining only makes sense with a >50 USD gpu card, especially >100 usd radeon
2741 2010-12-17 19:14:59 <newsham> xelister: pooled cpu mining is set and forget recurring.
2742 2010-12-17 19:15:15 <edcba> with 0.5Mpixel can i get 0.01 btc ?
2743 2010-12-17 19:15:20 <xelister> newsham: so is starting a freenet node, and for that I pay  x100 times more !!!
2744 2010-12-17 19:15:21 <xelister> edcba: ok
2745 2010-12-17 19:15:56 <xelister> (on a VPS)
2746 2010-12-17 19:16:15 <edcba> wait maybe i'll spare for a 20Mpixel
2747 2010-12-17 19:16:19 <xelister> (to be completly honest, freenet node needs 600 MB ram machine, best VPS or dedic because it uses hard drive IO a lot)
2748 2010-12-17 19:17:05 <newsham> you pay people to run irc servers?
2749 2010-12-17 19:17:11 <newsham> in the past people used to beg to do that
2750 2010-12-17 19:17:34 <newsham> you should have people paying you
2751 2010-12-17 19:17:59 <davux> MT`AwAy: hm? :)
2752 2010-12-17 19:18:13 <xelister> newsham: freenet
2753 2010-12-17 19:18:14 <[Noodles]> freenet != freenode
2754 2010-12-17 19:18:41 <xelister> censorship free distributed crypto network
2755 2010-12-17 19:18:58 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2756 2010-12-17 19:19:03 <xelister> also, 0.01 BTC to first person to beat up anyone that will start again with "oh my god censorship free, what if people use it for Bad Things" arguments
2757 2010-12-17 19:19:05 <xelister> ;)
2758 2010-12-17 19:19:10 <newsham> sweet.. just what the world needs. another internet overlay.
2759 2010-12-17 19:19:17 <newsham> anonymous america online!
2760 2010-12-17 19:19:25 <xelister> newsham: it is not internet overlay. Also, it is more secure then TOR
2761 2010-12-17 19:19:32 <xelister> its storage, not transport
2762 2010-12-17 19:19:53 <newsham> its content only available through freenet, yes?
2763 2010-12-17 19:19:54 <xelister> like huge hosting server sort of... good for board to talk, files, etc
2764 2010-12-17 19:19:55 <slush_cz> xelister I dont understand, why you waste time to convincing people to not mining. I think we are all adult.
2765 2010-12-17 19:20:07 <xelister> newsham: basically yes. Well, one could set up a gateway though
2766 2010-12-17 19:20:22 <xelister> slush_cz: I found it really funny what decissions people make
2767 2010-12-17 19:20:26 <[Noodles]> slush_cz : cuz he's bored
2768 2010-12-17 19:20:36 <xelister> also Im interested if my offer would be attracitve
2769 2010-12-17 19:20:37 <slush_cz> xelister: Idea of pooled mining is not to get rich.
2770 2010-12-17 19:20:54 <xelister> [Noodles]: no, its more about exploring how people behave about such economic related choices
2771 2010-12-17 19:21:13 <[Noodles]> people let their CPUs running looking for ET, not THAT's useful
2772 2010-12-17 19:21:18 <slush_cz> xelister: You are right, people will not make more than in standalone mode, IF they will leave its miner working for enough time.
2773 2010-12-17 19:21:29 <[Noodles]> of course it's un-profitable
2774 2010-12-17 19:21:42 <xelister> [Noodles]: or just not run CPU let it idle and save elctrcitity [bill] or find somethnig usefull liek folding at home perhaps or soemthing
2775 2010-12-17 19:21:43 <slush_cz> But most people will stop, when they have to listen cooler for 20 months without reward
2776 2010-12-17 19:22:00 <xelister> slush_cz: yes
2777 2010-12-17 19:22:01 * edcba has an idea...
2778 2010-12-17 19:22:08 <Granttt> im curious, is there any point to buy a XFX Radeon HD 5970 BE rathere than a standard 5970 ?
2779 2010-12-17 19:22:12 <[Noodles]> what if people dont want to save electriocity-bills?
2780 2010-12-17 19:22:12 <edcba> but i need to implement a bitcoin pooler first
2781 2010-12-17 19:22:21 <[Noodles]> it's peoples choice, not yours
2782 2010-12-17 19:22:26 <slush_cz> xelister: Joining pool is the easiest way how to earn first bitcoin, play with it and spread the word
2783 2010-12-17 19:22:32 <edcba> [Noodles]: especially when running computers at work
2784 2010-12-17 19:22:33 <newsham> xelister: not a fan of closed portal sites.  i guess i understand the value of anonimity, but still.. blah...
2785 2010-12-17 19:22:36 <xelister> [Noodles]: It's not that I want to sue them or something, I simply find this funny/strange/etc
2786 2010-12-17 19:23:03 <[Noodles]> yeah, and you have to tell it out loud every few hours over and over again ^.^
2787 2010-12-17 19:23:08 <xelister> newsham: freenet is the only choice nowdays. If that guy that leaked to WL would used it, perhaps he would survive (that solider guy)
2788 2010-12-17 19:23:23 <edcba> he's not dead :)
2789 2010-12-17 19:23:28 <newsham> i think his problem was his mouth not his net connection.
2790 2010-12-17 19:23:37 <newsham> he seemed to want to brag to the wrong people.
2791 2010-12-17 19:23:38 <edcba> and he was caught because he bragged about it
2792 2010-12-17 19:23:46 <xelister> * survive as a free person
2793 2010-12-17 19:24:01 <xelister> newsham: he did? I didnt followed... got url to story?
2794 2010-12-17 19:24:03 <edcba> bragging is the main way to be caught on internet
2795 2010-12-17 19:24:18 <edcba> (when doing something extremly stupid)
2796 2010-12-17 19:24:21 <slush_cz> By the way I just made some stats of server. It is doing 17 requests per second and I have 200MB of logs that favicon.ico is not here :-D
2797 2010-12-17 19:24:24 <edcba> else they never catch you
2798 2010-12-17 19:24:46 <newsham> google "manning lamo"
2799 2010-12-17 19:24:47 <edcba> slush_cz: what serv ?
2800 2010-12-17 19:24:52 <slush_cz> mining pool
2801 2010-12-17 19:24:54 <newsham> here's one: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/18/wikileaks
2802 2010-12-17 19:24:55 <slush_cz> ,,pool
2803 2010-12-17 19:24:56 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2804 2010-12-17 19:25:04 <edcba> but hmm
2805 2010-12-17 19:25:06 <xelister> edcba: they can still have someone "suddenly" recall he was 'raped' (e.g. forgot to ask boyfriend to war a rubber this time)
2806 2010-12-17 19:25:24 <newsham> xelister: not "boyfriend".
2807 2010-12-17 19:25:49 <RichardG> okay, I'm now confused
2808 2010-12-17 19:26:10 <RichardG> should I use the slush pool
2809 2010-12-17 19:26:12 <RichardG> or the bitcoin.cz pool
2810 2010-12-17 19:26:37 <slush_cz> it is mining.bitcoin.cz
2811 2010-12-17 19:26:48 <slush_cz> and its slush's pool :)
2812 2010-12-17 19:27:05 <RichardG> * Dns resolved mining.bitcoin.cz to 109.74.195.190
2813 2010-12-17 19:27:13 <RichardG> or wait I'm confused.
2814 2010-12-17 19:27:24 <slush_cz> tell me
2815 2010-12-17 19:27:35 <RichardG> I mistook "slush's pool" as the new server on the "join a pooled effort" topic
2816 2010-12-17 19:27:52 <slush_cz> no, there are two separate projects
2817 2010-12-17 19:28:10 <xelister> Tired of waiting for the minin pool and no reward? Send me your picture and get paid RIGHT NOW!!!  Picture of hand saying "Xelister rocks lol!" 0.01 BTC;  Same if you're cute girl - 0.05 BTC. 0.10 for belly or below neck or on back, 0.20 for breasts (must be legal age). Must be not 'shoped, best 2 pics 1 mpix.  (ok to ask someone).     (limite offer: 1 hour after this message, will be repeated probably soon though, up to 100 BTC for the prices,
2818 2010-12-17 19:28:11 <xelister> ask me is it still valid offer).
2819 2010-12-17 19:28:15 <slush_cz> older is puddingpop's server (join a pooled effort) and mine is Cooperative mining server on ,,pool
2820 2010-12-17 19:28:15 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2821 2010-12-17 19:28:36 <xelister> (*) time limited to 50 BTC for all rewards, ask me if it is still valid offer
2822 2010-12-17 19:28:45 * xelister looks @ gribble.. ok
2823 2010-12-17 19:28:51 <xelister> Tired of waiting for the minin pool and no reward? Send me your picture and get paid RIGHT NOW!!!  Picture of hand saying "Xelister rocks lol!" 0.01 BTC;  Same if you're cute girl - 0.05 BTC. 0.10 for belly or below neck or on back, 0.20 for breasts (must be legal age). Must be not 'shoped, best 2 pics 1 mpix.  (ok to ask someone).     (limite offer: 1 hour after this message, will be repeated probably soon though, up to 100 BTC for the prices,
2824 2010-12-17 19:28:52 <xelister> ask me is it still valid offer). (*) time limited to 50 BTC for all rewards, ask me if it is still valid offer
2825 2010-12-17 19:29:19 <kiba> rofl
2826 2010-12-17 19:29:34 <xelister> haha cowbot economy is so much fun and crazy ideas
2827 2010-12-17 19:30:16 <xelister> btw 5 BTC to start a bot (Im on linux) that will auto reply to gribble's message (match on keyword in message body, must have some anti spam limiting)
2828 2010-12-17 19:30:35 <xelister> seriously
2829 2010-12-17 19:30:38 <slush_cz> xelister: you are crazy. Please go somewhere else and troll here
2830 2010-12-17 19:30:49 <slush_cz> there
2831 2010-12-17 19:30:56 <xelister> slush_cz: Im offering a 5 BTC bid, do not want it, then do not participate in it
2832 2010-12-17 19:31:07 <slush_cz> no, you are spamming
2833 2010-12-17 19:31:12 <xelister> so is gribble
2834 2010-12-17 19:31:25 <xelister> except my offer is guranteed payment, and faster, and bigger amount
2835 2010-12-17 19:33:12 <RichardG> okay I registered on slush's miner
2836 2010-12-17 19:33:19 <RichardG> now how would I login using the client
2837 2010-12-17 19:33:42 <RichardG> nevermind, completely different miners.
2838 2010-12-17 19:33:54 <newsham> xelister: perhaps you want the otc channel, not the -dev channel?
2839 2010-12-17 19:34:24 <RichardG> ^^
2840 2010-12-17 19:34:43 <slush_cz> RichardG: follow instructions on homepage
2841 2010-12-17 19:34:54 <slush_cz> you need to register worker and use it's login/passw
2842 2010-12-17 19:34:56 <RichardG> slush_cz: nevermind
2843 2010-12-17 19:35:02 <RichardG> your pool uses completely different miners
2844 2010-12-17 19:35:10 <slush_cz> yes
2845 2010-12-17 19:35:15 <RichardG> I'm dealing with remoteminer-cpu
2846 2010-12-17 19:35:27 <[Noodles]> on what CPUs?
2847 2010-12-17 19:35:29 <slush_cz> it use non-standard API, so it will not work with pool
2848 2010-12-17 19:35:50 <slush_cz> but standard miners are easy to use
2849 2010-12-17 19:37:07 <RichardG> 1 miner threads started, using SHA256 'c' algorithm.
2850 2010-12-17 19:37:07 <RichardG> json_rpc_call failed
2851 2010-12-17 19:37:11 <RichardG> now.....?
2852 2010-12-17 19:37:18 <slush_cz> what commandline?
2853 2010-12-17 19:37:23 <RichardG> none
2854 2010-12-17 19:37:32 <slush_cz> so its OK :-D
2855 2010-12-17 19:38:08 <slush_cz> You have to specify parameters in command line. see <executable> --help for details
2856 2010-12-17 19:38:33 <slush_cz> you need to provide at least URL, login and password
2857 2010-12-17 19:39:39 <RichardG> almost working
2858 2010-12-17 19:40:08 <RichardG> 1 miner threads started, using SHA256 'c' algorithm.
2859 2010-12-17 19:40:09 <RichardG> C:\CPU-miner>
2860 2010-12-17 19:40:33 <[Noodles]> minerd --url=http://mining.bitcoin.cz:8332 --userpass=<name.workerN:yourpass> --algo=4way --threads=<number-of-cores>
2861 2010-12-17 19:41:04 <slush_cz> [Noodles]:  thanks
2862 2010-12-17 19:41:05 <RichardG> ah, didnt use =
2863 2010-12-17 19:41:19 <RichardG> but now it aborts without outputting anythnig
2864 2010-12-17 19:41:22 <RichardG> *anything
2865 2010-12-17 19:41:35 <slush_cz> RichardG: Then you also should play with 'algo' parameter. Can improve khash a lot
2866 2010-12-17 19:42:02 <RichardG> I'm using no --algo
2867 2010-12-17 19:42:07 <RichardG> this is an Athlon XP 2400+
2868 2010-12-17 19:42:13 <RichardG> MMX SSE 3dNOW
2869 2010-12-17 19:42:14 <[Noodles]> if 4waya doesnt work, remove --algo, or change to --algo=c
2870 2010-12-17 19:42:19 <slush_cz> its ok now, it is not relevant to connecting to pool
2871 2010-12-17 19:42:23 <RichardG> aborting now
2872 2010-12-17 19:42:43 <slush_cz> RichardG: Which login do you use ?
2873 2010-12-17 19:43:03 <slush_cz> common mistake is to use site's main login
2874 2010-12-17 19:43:11 <RichardG> RichardG.myworker:myworkerspassword
2875 2010-12-17 19:43:17 <slush_cz> its ok
2876 2010-12-17 19:43:54 <RichardG> c               Linux kernel sha256, implemented in C (default)
2877 2010-12-17 19:43:57 <RichardG> great, seems I'm stuck
2878 2010-12-17 19:44:05 <Diablo-D3> erm
2879 2010-12-17 19:44:16 <Diablo-D3> what does the kernel have to do with this?
2880 2010-12-17 19:44:25 <RichardG> I should have bolded "Linux"
2881 2010-12-17 19:45:13 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
2882 2010-12-17 19:45:14 Grantt has joined
2883 2010-12-17 19:45:22 Grantt is now known as Granttt
2884 2010-12-17 19:45:33 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
2885 2010-12-17 19:45:33 Granttt has joined
2886 2010-12-17 19:45:54 <xelister> edcba: so, are you goin to claim your 0.01 BTC reward ;) ?
2887 2010-12-17 19:48:13 <RichardG> I got debug output
2888 2010-12-17 19:48:16 <jgarzik> RichardG: stuck, how?
2889 2010-12-17 19:48:20 <RichardG> pastebinning
2890 2010-12-17 19:48:47 <RichardG> yes, I stripped the authentication header.
2891 2010-12-17 19:48:57 <RichardG> http://pastebin.com/QuVwijqK
2892 2010-12-17 19:49:31 spm_Draget has quit (Quit: Joining #reallife)
2893 2010-12-17 19:49:38 spm_Draget has joined
2894 2010-12-17 19:50:08 <jgarzik> RichardG: it's just sitting there?  or is it exiting prematurely, or what?
2895 2010-12-17 19:50:13 <jgarzik> what is "stuck"?
2896 2010-12-17 19:50:56 <RichardG> it's exiting prematurely
2897 2010-12-17 19:51:03 <RichardG> with * Connection #0 to host mining.bitcoin.cz left intact
2898 2010-12-17 19:51:09 <slush_cz> ;;bc 1790000
2899 2010-12-17 19:51:10 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
2900 2010-12-17 19:51:16 <slush_cz> ;;help
2901 2010-12-17 19:51:16 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2902 2010-12-17 19:51:49 <jgarzik> RichardG: no "json_rpc_call failed" or anything?
2903 2010-12-17 19:51:54 <RichardG> ;;bc,calc 1790000
2904 2010-12-17 19:51:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1790000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 hours, 9 minutes, and 57 seconds
2905 2010-12-17 19:52:02 <RichardG> no
2906 2010-12-17 19:52:05 <RichardG> the full output
2907 2010-12-17 19:52:08 <RichardG> http://pastebin.com/QuVwijqK
2908 2010-12-17 19:52:18 <RichardG> it receives an HTTP OK response with its headers
2909 2010-12-17 19:52:21 <RichardG> and aborts
2910 2010-12-17 19:52:31 <jgarzik> RichardG: that's not full output; the algorithm information is missing
2911 2010-12-17 19:53:16 <jgarzik> RichardG: if you are trying to use an instruction set not supported by your CPU (and/or OS), it may abort upon first hash attempt
2912 2010-12-17 19:53:30 <RichardG> with --algo c it doesn't change
2913 2010-12-17 19:53:47 <RichardG> I think I'm stuck, the C algorithm references the Linux kernel
2914 2010-12-17 19:53:55 <RichardG> and this CPU has no SSE2
2915 2010-12-17 19:57:08 <helmut> ughhh http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoins_draft_spec_0_0_1 is imprecise as hell
2916 2010-12-17 19:58:01 <helmut> is there a public user for editing the wiki or does one have to register?
2917 2010-12-17 19:58:49 <jgarzik> RichardG: don't worry about the "Linux" reference.  Ignore it.
2918 2010-12-17 19:59:05 <RichardG> still I can't seem to do it with algo c
2919 2010-12-17 20:00:45 <altamic> Stallman on wikileaks and digital payments
2920 2010-12-17 20:00:51 <altamic> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/wikileaks
2921 2010-12-17 20:01:23 <jgarzik> RichardG: try this: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/cpuminer-installer-0.2.2git486.zip
2922 2010-12-17 20:02:20 <jgarzik> ideally every Windows platform would come with gcc, and I could just ship source ;-)
2923 2010-12-17 20:02:31 <jgarzik> gentoo-win32
2924 2010-12-17 20:02:45 * jgarzik idly wonders how the ReactOS boys are doing
2925 2010-12-17 20:03:46 <RichardG> works jgarzik
2926 2010-12-17 20:03:47 <RichardG> thanks
2927 2010-12-17 20:03:51 <gavinandresen> helmut:  I just created an anonymous wiki user.  Password: anonymous
2928 2010-12-17 20:04:37 <jgarzik> RichardG: the problem was that the standard cpuminer was built to require modern CPUs with sse2.  unfortunately turning on SSE2 apparently meant generating other instructions not supported by older CPUs in addition to simply turning on 4way algorithm.
2929 2010-12-17 20:04:37 <helmut> gavinandresen: wow. thanks. I'll extend the spec a bit then.
2930 2010-12-17 20:05:27 <RichardG> 1 miner threads started, using SHA256 'c' algorithm.
2931 2010-12-17 20:05:28 <RichardG> HashMeter(0): 16777216 hashes, 349.07 khash/sec
2932 2010-12-17 20:05:33 <RichardG> where are my statistics
2933 2010-12-17 20:05:38 <RichardG> without them, the bot can't live
2934 2010-12-17 20:06:14 <[Noodles]> different pool, grab stats from site
2935 2010-12-17 20:07:26 * RichardG goes to stats section, grabs source and starts the regex party
2936 2010-12-17 20:07:56 genjix has joined
2937 2010-12-17 20:08:30 <genjix> does anyone have a picture of that chart where it shows how free software works using those circles like an onion?
2938 2010-12-17 20:08:36 <genjix> at the centre is the core group
2939 2010-12-17 20:09:08 <helmut> gavinandresen: by now I found out that the inv and getdata description was wrong. let's see what's next.
2940 2010-12-17 20:09:36 <gavinandresen> helmut:  great!  Thanks for fixing stuff instead of just complaining about it.
2941 2010-12-17 20:10:34 <helmut> gavinandresen: bitcoin desparately needs an independant implementation. the c++ source (being nonportable) sucks.
2942 2010-12-17 20:10:38 <slush_cz> RichardG: I'm going to system update right now, after that, stats will be also on  http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/
2943 2010-12-17 20:11:03 <helmut> gavinandresen: afaik it basically fails all big endian machines.
2944 2010-12-17 20:11:11 <jgarzik> [Noodles]: BTW, I'm keeping cpuminer 0.2.1 build around long term at http://yyz.us/bitcoin/ until the compiler issue is resolved.
2945 2010-12-17 20:12:52 <gavinandresen> helmut:  there are at least three efforts to do an independent implementation.   And I'll take working code over Grand Plans of Perfect Code any day....
2946 2010-12-17 20:13:15 <helmut> gavinandresen: yeah. pybitcoin is more like "Grand Plans"
2947 2010-12-17 20:13:20 piotrp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2948 2010-12-17 20:13:33 <helmut> gavinandresen: fixing the spec is imho more like the route to working code.
2949 2010-12-17 20:13:36 <gavinandresen> helmut:  what big endian machine do you want it to run on, by the way?
2950 2010-12-17 20:13:59 <helmut> gavinandresen: I don't, but the Debian project builds on a variety of big endians.
2951 2010-12-17 20:14:39 <genjix> ruh-roh someone made the svn break. line 83 needs a static_cast because the implicit conversion is ambigious
2952 2010-12-17 20:15:01 <genjix>     entry.push_back(Pair("time", wtx.GetTxTime()));
2953 2010-12-17 20:15:07 <helmut> gavinandresen: I was wondering how difficult it was to write a client that can verify transactions and eventually create them.
2954 2010-12-17 20:15:11 <gavinandresen> genjix: line 83 of what file?
2955 2010-12-17 20:15:16 <jgarzik> I think current super-multi-core SPARC CPUs are probably the only big endian machines capable of contributing meaningfully to the miner pool
2956 2010-12-17 20:15:17 <genjix> rpc.cpp
2957 2010-12-17 20:15:18 <gavinandresen> genjix:  that'd be me.... I'll fix
2958 2010-12-17 20:15:21 <helmut> gavinandresen: my biggest problem so far is the protocol.
2959 2010-12-17 20:15:30 <jgarzik> 32 parallel ALUs
2960 2010-12-17 20:15:31 <genjix> kk thanks gavinandresen!
2961 2010-12-17 20:15:36 <helmut> gavinandresen: more precisely the lack of documentation. it still reads a lot different from rfcs.
2962 2010-12-17 20:16:07 <jgarzik> helmut: main.h and IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE provide big portions of the network protocol
2963 2010-12-17 20:16:14 <genjix> helmut: well there's a few guys now starting their own clients
2964 2010-12-17 20:16:21 <jgarzik> helmut: a lot of the network protocol is hidden behind "<<"
2965 2010-12-17 20:16:26 <genjix> once that happens im sure documentation will fall into place naturally.
2966 2010-12-17 20:16:43 <jgarzik> part of the documentation is simply how to serialize a data structure
2967 2010-12-17 20:16:44 <helmut> jgarzik: yeah. I figured that, but it feels like reverse engineering.
2968 2010-12-17 20:17:04 <helmut> genjix: if just one was working.
2969 2010-12-17 20:17:27 <genjix> give it time. its only been a few months :p
2970 2010-12-17 20:17:49 <jgarzik> helmut: seen ArtForz' almost-a-client?  http://pastebin.com/ZSM7iHZw
2971 2010-12-17 20:18:07 <helmut> I think so.
2972 2010-12-17 20:18:25 <kiba> so we're going nowhere with the BitDNS thing
2973 2010-12-17 20:18:33 <gavinandresen> genjix: committed rpc.cpp fix
2974 2010-12-17 20:18:41 <genjix> thank you ;)
2975 2010-12-17 20:18:55 <helmut> jgarzik: almost in that it can only print some network info from a local bitcoin node?
2976 2010-12-17 20:19:29 <jgarzik> helmut: it can talk to other bitcoin P2P nodes, and serialize/deserialize.  that's a damn good starting point.
2977 2010-12-17 20:19:29 <RichardG> let me get this right as I am a math noob
2978 2010-12-17 20:19:38 <RichardG> would mhashes * 1000 = khashes?
2979 2010-12-17 20:20:05 <helmut> jgarzik: could you point out thet part connecting to the other nodes?
2980 2010-12-17 20:20:13 <kiba> hmm
2981 2010-12-17 20:20:20 <kiba> why my wallet.dat is a binary file?
2982 2010-12-17 20:20:22 <RichardG> nevermind I think 100.
2983 2010-12-17 20:20:25 <RichardG> !pool
2984 2010-12-17 20:20:38 <RichardG> (only getting how khashes/s are referenced on the old miner's log)
2985 2010-12-17 20:20:43 RG has joined
2986 2010-12-17 20:20:43 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!pool
2987 2010-12-17 20:20:44 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 1hr 44mins ago): 72 clients, 102242 khash/s, next block est. 5days 22hrs 58mins 1sec
2988 2010-12-17 20:20:45 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2989 2010-12-17 20:20:55 <jgarzik> helmut: it connects, to one node, but this line can obviously be repeated: c = NodeConn("127.0.0.1", 8333)
2990 2010-12-17 20:21:05 <kiba> so it's going to take 5 days just to get something
2991 2010-12-17 20:21:12 <jgarzik> helmut: you can create as many NodeConn's as you'd like
2992 2010-12-17 20:21:22 <RichardG> !newpool
2993 2010-12-17 20:21:33 <helmut> jgarzik: sort of. yes.
2994 2010-12-17 20:21:38 RazielZ has quit ()
2995 2010-12-17 20:21:41 RG has joined
2996 2010-12-17 20:21:41 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!newpool
2997 2010-12-17 20:21:42 <RichardG> Alternate pooled miner (miner.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 17/Dec/2010 01:46:42, 29265 shares contributed, 178528.206 khash/s
2998 2010-12-17 20:21:43 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
2999 2010-12-17 20:21:57 <RichardG> mining*
3000 2010-12-17 20:22:04 <RichardG> fixed
3001 2010-12-17 20:22:07 <RichardG> try me: !newpool
3002 2010-12-17 20:22:52 bitanarchy has joined
3003 2010-12-17 20:22:52 bitanarchy has quit (Changing host)
3004 2010-12-17 20:22:52 bitanarchy has joined
3005 2010-12-17 20:23:20 <[Noodles]> 178Mhash? it's more like 1785Mhash, isnt it?
3006 2010-12-17 20:23:51 <RichardG> khashes
3007 2010-12-17 20:23:53 <RichardG> not mhashes
3008 2010-12-17 20:24:28 <slush_cz> RichardG: it is wrong
3009 2010-12-17 20:24:29 <sjaak> Approx. cluster performance: 1785.057996 Mhash/s
3010 2010-12-17 20:24:30 <[Noodles]> 178 000khash = 178Mhash
3011 2010-12-17 20:24:41 <RichardG> ooh
3012 2010-12-17 20:24:44 <bitanarchy> When I add LSUSB funds to mtgox, how does mtgox know which mtgox account the amount must be added to? Should a message be added to the transfer?
3013 2010-12-17 20:24:45 <RichardG> let me multiply by 1000 then
3014 2010-12-17 20:24:47 <[Noodles]> and that's way to low for newpool ^.^
3015 2010-12-17 20:24:56 <RichardG> !newpool
3016 2010-12-17 20:25:02 <jgarzik> bitanarchy: web interfaces automatically handle that sort of stuff
3017 2010-12-17 20:25:12 RG has joined
3018 2010-12-17 20:25:13 <slush_cz> RichardG: Do you parse html?
3019 2010-12-17 20:25:13 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!newpool
3020 2010-12-17 20:25:14 <RichardG> Alternate pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 17/Dec/2010 01:46:42, 29347 shares contributed, 1784913.887 khash/s
3021 2010-12-17 20:25:15 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
3022 2010-12-17 20:25:20 <slush_cz> RichardG: JSON will be online in half an hour
3023 2010-12-17 20:25:21 <RichardG> slush_cz: mIRC sockets + regexes
3024 2010-12-17 20:25:24 <[Noodles]> that's better
3025 2010-12-17 20:26:08 <RichardG> !newpool
3026 2010-12-17 20:26:10 <slush_cz> thanks for stats
3027 2010-12-17 20:26:26 RG has joined
3028 2010-12-17 20:26:26 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!newpool
3029 2010-12-17 20:26:27 <RichardG> New pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 17/Dec/2010 01:46:42, 29378 shares contributed, khash/s
3030 2010-12-17 20:26:28 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
3031 2010-12-17 20:26:45 <bitanarchy> jgarzik: The webinterface is suspicious because there is no reference to my mtgox account on the screen. I start worrying.
3032 2010-12-17 20:27:25 <RichardG> !newpool
3033 2010-12-17 20:27:26 <RichardG> fixed
3034 2010-12-17 20:27:38 <slush_cz> I see I will have to add some caching
3035 2010-12-17 20:27:44 RG has joined
3036 2010-12-17 20:27:45 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!newpool
3037 2010-12-17 20:27:46 <RichardG> New pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 17/Dec/2010 01:46:42, 29419 shares contributed, 1785468 khash/s
3038 2010-12-17 20:27:47 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
3039 2010-12-17 20:27:53 <RichardG> when I type the commands on my own client, mIRC doesn't parse them due to a limitation
3040 2010-12-17 20:27:56 <RichardG> so I use sockets again
3041 2010-12-17 20:27:58 <slush_cz> In new version is also history of found blocks and number of active workers
3042 2010-12-17 20:28:02 <RichardG> to create a raw connection
3043 2010-12-17 20:28:05 <RichardG> do the command
3044 2010-12-17 20:28:06 <RichardG> and quit
3045 2010-12-17 20:28:08 <RichardG> slush_cz: cool
3046 2010-12-17 20:30:58 <RichardG> I also silently made another command
3047 2010-12-17 20:30:59 <RichardG> !faucet
3048 2010-12-17 20:31:06 <sjaak> !faucet
3049 2010-12-17 20:31:08 <RichardG> The faucet has 380.07 BTC available
3050 2010-12-17 20:31:23 RG has joined
3051 2010-12-17 20:31:23 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!faucet
3052 2010-12-17 20:31:24 <RichardG> The faucet has 380.07 BTC available
3053 2010-12-17 20:31:25 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
3054 2010-12-17 20:31:26 <bitanarchy> Does mtgox not ask any fees for internal mtgox transactions?
3055 2010-12-17 20:31:37 <RichardG> sjaak: your pool's info is still available under
3056 2010-12-17 20:31:38 <RichardG> !pool
3057 2010-12-17 20:31:56 RG has joined
3058 2010-12-17 20:31:57 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!pool
3059 2010-12-17 20:31:57 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 1hr 55mins 14secs ago): 67 clients, 103037 khash/s, next block est. 5days 21hrs 51mins 50secs
3060 2010-12-17 20:31:59 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
3061 2010-12-17 20:32:12 <RichardG> it isn't giving me a status since 1 hour ago
3062 2010-12-17 20:32:26 <RichardG> restarted it
3063 2010-12-17 20:33:33 piotrp has joined
3064 2010-12-17 20:33:51 <RichardG> !pool
3065 2010-12-17 20:34:07 RG has joined
3066 2010-12-17 20:34:08 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!pool
3067 2010-12-17 20:34:08 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 1min 11secs ago): 67 clients, 101743 khash/s, next block est. 5days 23hrs 40mins 5secs
3068 2010-12-17 20:34:10 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
3069 2010-12-17 20:35:02 <jgarzik> RichardG: there is #bitcoin-bot, for bot testingt
3070 2010-12-17 20:35:25 <jgarzik> RichardG: less clutter on the main -dev channel
3071 2010-12-17 20:35:46 <genjix> just a suggestion ^^
3072 2010-12-17 20:35:51 <genjix> :)
3073 2010-12-17 20:36:34 <RichardG> jgarzik: thanks :)
3074 2010-12-17 20:36:43 <RichardG> orphaned
3075 2010-12-17 20:36:49 <appamatto> Any news or controversy? :)
3076 2010-12-17 20:37:27 <jgarzik> appamatto: I hear Paris Hilton is being tortured for information related to Wikileaks' funding of bitcoin development.  Satoshi Nakamoto is really Julian Assange.
3077 2010-12-17 20:37:59 Tester has joined
3078 2010-12-17 20:37:59 <appamatto> how controversial!
3079 2010-12-17 20:38:11 <genjix> gavinandresen: can we make these changes http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2317.0 ? i can submit you a patch which deprecates the old rpc calls, and renames all the functions .etc if you agree.
3080 2010-12-17 20:38:20 <newsham> what is the "compact form" of the bits field?
3081 2010-12-17 20:39:22 <gavinandresen> genjix: you and davout seem to be the only ones who care.  For little name changes like this, I'm inclined to leave the old names as they are.
3082 2010-12-17 20:39:45 <genjix> but these small things make everything more consistent and nicer in the long run.
3083 2010-12-17 20:40:18 <genjix> and i also want to allow the argument to getaccountaddress to be optional.
3084 2010-12-17 20:40:19 <jgarzik> perfect is the enemy of good.
3085 2010-12-17 20:40:29 <jgarzik> you can waste a lot of time on naming.
3086 2010-12-17 20:40:52 <genjix> jgarzik: in that thread i propose a consistent logical naming scheme.
3087 2010-12-17 20:40:58 <Tester> and waste even more time porting Windows stuff to Linux
3088 2010-12-17 20:41:04 <genjix> getfoo for fetching things that already exist.
3089 2010-12-17 20:41:12 <genjix> foo for performing foo actions
3090 2010-12-17 20:41:40 <genjix> so getnewaddress is actually creating a new address and becomes newaddress
3091 2010-12-17 20:41:44 <gavinandresen> ... and we start to waste time talking about naming.....
3092 2010-12-17 20:42:20 <Tester> well there is an evolution going on - people may not see it - sort of like frogs being boiled in water
3093 2010-12-17 20:42:35 <genjix> ok, as you wish. but from the perspective of someone who was using bitcoind as a newbie
3094 2010-12-17 20:42:45 <genjix> its was a muddled beginning
3095 2010-12-17 20:43:08 <gavinandresen> genjix:  was that because of the names, or because the documentation sucks?
3096 2010-12-17 20:43:10 <MT`AwAy> mh
3097 2010-12-17 20:43:16 <MT`AwAy> I received 0.05 btc from somwhere :o
3098 2010-12-17 20:43:23 <Tester> the documentation does not match the code
3099 2010-12-17 20:43:40 <Tester> better to read the code
3100 2010-12-17 20:43:46 anarchyx has joined
3101 2010-12-17 20:43:52 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
3102 2010-12-17 20:43:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98095 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 688 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14245.25537567
3103 2010-12-17 20:43:57 <tcatm> MT`AwAy: could they be mine from testing the page?
3104 2010-12-17 20:44:02 <gavinandresen> Tester:  if you're reading on the wiki, go ahead and fix documentation that's wrong....
3105 2010-12-17 20:44:06 <MT`AwAy> tcatm: ah, true :D
3106 2010-12-17 20:44:27 <Tester> sort of busy rewriting the whole system
3107 2010-12-17 20:44:28 <genjix> gavinandresen: because of the names. i didn't know sendtoaddress existed and accounts were foreign to me so getaccountaddress was a massive wtf
3108 2010-12-17 20:44:30 <LobsterMan> how many blocks is it before a transaction is confirmed? 6?
3109 2010-12-17 20:44:42 <genjix> that's why i proposed it.
3110 2010-12-17 20:44:43 <Tester> as a real linux system
3111 2010-12-17 20:45:00 <genjix> bitcoind help is the only documentation needed.
3112 2010-12-17 20:45:06 <genjix> the wiki page is fine.
3113 2010-12-17 20:45:10 <Tester> it is a great system but
3114 2010-12-17 20:45:48 <Tester> but too many pressures for headless
3115 2010-12-17 20:46:01 <genjix> although i propose deleting that huge redundant table of rpc calls
3116 2010-12-17 20:46:03 <Tester> then there is http://ReactOS.com
3117 2010-12-17 20:46:14 <genjix> and making it more obvious to use bitcoind
3118 2010-12-17 20:46:30 <Tester> and that would be a Windows-centric pressure
3119 2010-12-17 20:46:50 <Tester> too many pressures in too many directions
3120 2010-12-17 20:47:18 <gavinandresen> genjix:  go for it.  If you get yelled at because people like that bit list of RPC calls, you can always put it back.
3121 2010-12-17 20:47:22 <appamatto> Tester, are you designing an OS?
3122 2010-12-17 20:47:26 <genjix> ok
3123 2010-12-17 20:48:37 <Tester> designing OS ? not really - trying to integrate bitcoins into massive existing code
3124 2010-12-17 20:49:01 <Tester> as a modular component
3125 2010-12-17 20:49:12 <Tester> like adding something to a home stereo system
3126 2010-12-17 20:49:32 <Tester> the Windows implementation is like a boom-box
3127 2010-12-17 20:50:11 <Tester> home stereo components have to be a module with a function not an everything box
3128 2010-12-17 20:50:32 <Tester> nothing wrong with the everything box
3129 2010-12-17 20:50:37 Amiga4000 is now known as amiga4000
3130 2010-12-17 20:50:39 <Tester> it is massive
3131 2010-12-17 20:50:52 <Tester> would hate to maintain that puppy
3132 2010-12-17 20:51:07 <RichardG> slush_cz: will json have a number of users connected
3133 2010-12-17 20:51:16 <RichardG> if yes, I can make the output near identical to the old miner's
3134 2010-12-17 20:51:38 <slush_cz> RichardG: yes, active in less than hour
3135 2010-12-17 20:51:49 <slush_cz> There are no persistent connection
3136 2010-12-17 20:52:19 <RichardG> good, because on the old pool, I'm mining only to obtain results for the bot
3137 2010-12-17 20:52:29 <slush_cz> :-D
3138 2010-12-17 20:53:17 <Tester> the best documentation is the running data http://blockexplorer.com/
3139 2010-12-17 20:55:53 <LobsterMan> hah...how long has there been a wikipedia page for bitcoin?
3140 2010-12-17 20:55:53 <LobsterMan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
3141 2010-12-17 20:55:57 <Tester> "hash":"0000000000006978ca6031ad7469644c0aa45d88a1c0ec48b13ecc4ab6cb84bf",   "ver":1,   "prev_block":"000000000004adbe77ef6065b111e4b36a1b1acc7e2bf79441351b7fc7e92dbb",   "mrkl_root":"81c0fcd318f7f25fb85ce26490e3937775c7db3baa5314e4f227d0c6d01a5944",   "time":1292618718,   "bits":453335379,   "nonce":2386556609,
3142 2010-12-17 20:56:24 <RichardG> LobsterMan: recently
3143 2010-12-17 20:56:34 <RichardG> when it got readded because deleted for lack of notability
3144 2010-12-17 20:57:17 <Tester> deleted because of polotics
3145 2010-12-17 20:57:22 <Tester> politics
3146 2010-12-17 20:57:47 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/ <- now with a design!
3147 2010-12-17 20:58:19 <MT`AwAy> (thanks to tcatm :p )
3148 2010-12-17 20:58:27 <Tester> http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/0000000000006978ca6031ad7469644c0aa45d88a1c0ec48b13ecc4ab6cb84bf
3149 2010-12-17 20:58:38 <Tester> people can look at the RAW blocks
3150 2010-12-17 20:58:57 <Tester> that is one awesome tool
3151 2010-12-17 20:59:23 <MT`AwAy> Tester: that's just like looking at the matrix, at first you only see hex numbers, then you start seeing transactions and addresses
3152 2010-12-17 20:59:57 <Tester> and also things like "nonce":2386556609,
3153 2010-12-17 20:59:59 Grantt has joined
3154 2010-12-17 21:00:06 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
3155 2010-12-17 21:00:14 Grantt is now known as Granttt
3156 2010-12-17 21:00:16 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
3157 2010-12-17 21:00:16 Granttt has joined
3158 2010-12-17 21:00:21 <Tester> and you start to see what is really going on
3159 2010-12-17 21:00:48 <MT`AwAy> :D
3160 2010-12-17 21:00:48 <Tester> sort of like watching a processor single step and seeing the registers change
3161 2010-12-17 21:01:19 <Tester> no offense to Windows-centric stuff but that is guis and wallets
3162 2010-12-17 21:01:34 <Tester> not where the real machine is running
3163 2010-12-17 21:01:36 <genjix> where is the bitcoin data directory under windows?
3164 2010-12-17 21:02:07 <Tester> check that Readme file it sort of tells you
3165 2010-12-17 21:02:29 <genjix> wtf i use linux and am editing the wiki
3166 2010-12-17 21:02:32 <genjix> just tell me
3167 2010-12-17 21:02:33 <Tester> it is easiest to find with Command and DOS names
3168 2010-12-17 21:03:13 <Tester> To backup your money and settings, copy the file wallet.dat, which is normally located at:   Windows XP:     C:\Documents and Settings\[username]\Application Data\Bitcoin\wallet.dat
3169 2010-12-17 21:03:33 <thrashaholic> it's under app data?
3170 2010-12-17 21:03:34 <thrashaholic> weird
3171 2010-12-17 21:03:52 <thrashaholic> oh wait...wrong level
3172 2010-12-17 21:03:56 <Tester> you have to use that squirrly name APPLIC~1
3173 2010-12-17 21:04:27 <genjix> weird
3174 2010-12-17 21:04:30 <genjix> windows is so ugly
3175 2010-12-17 21:04:36 <bencoder> or for gui, go to run and type %APPDATA%... I think
3176 2010-12-17 21:05:22 <genjix> here's what i write:
3177 2010-12-17 21:05:43 <Tester> maybe better to use screen shots for Windows docs
3178 2010-12-17 21:05:43 <genjix> under linux create the file ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
3179 2010-12-17 21:06:52 <Tester> you mean under GUI-centric linux ?
3180 2010-12-17 21:07:19 <Tester> there will likely be two linux paths - headless will not have GUI
3181 2010-12-17 21:07:25 <bencoder> that's cl/gui agnostic, i'd say
3182 2010-12-17 21:07:57 <bencoder> "create a file in location X"... what's the problem? you can use vim or gedit or whatever
3183 2010-12-17 21:09:09 <Tester> well when the headless stuff emerges it will likely be wrapped in a lot of other stuff
3184 2010-12-17 21:09:29 <Tester> so it will look like linux daemons
3185 2010-12-17 21:09:46 <genjix> ok i edited the API to be faaaarrr clearer than befre now.
3186 2010-12-17 21:09:47 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
3187 2010-12-17 21:10:32 <Tester> Can't get much clearer than this http://blockexplorer.com/
3188 2010-12-17 21:10:35 <Tester> and the code
3189 2010-12-17 21:11:05 <gavinandresen> genjix:  nice!
3190 2010-12-17 21:11:18 <appamatto> ;;bc,stats
3191 2010-12-17 21:11:20 <genjix> ok glad people aren't angry about that :)
3192 2010-12-17 21:11:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98099 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 684 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 54 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14265.83813300
3193 2010-12-17 21:11:25 AAA_awright_ has joined
3194 2010-12-17 21:12:48 <Tester> angry ? it is a great system and will be really great
3195 2010-12-17 21:13:17 <jgarzik> genjix: where did the list of API methods disappear to??
3196 2010-12-17 21:13:20 <Tester> stuff that makes no sense will fall by the wayside
3197 2010-12-17 21:13:22 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3198 2010-12-17 21:13:45 <jgarzik> genjix: please replace that
3199 2010-12-17 21:13:46 <genjix> jgarzik: it's just confusing when bitcoind help does a much better job imo.
3200 2010-12-17 21:14:08 <jgarzik> genjix: it should be on the wiki, as people have long been linking to that wiki URL already
3201 2010-12-17 21:14:30 <jgarzik> genjix: you just generate -more- confusion at this point by removing information
3202 2010-12-17 21:14:37 <bitanarchy> the wikipedia article says that satishi created the currency.... that's not correct right. He creates the software, but does he create the currency?
3203 2010-12-17 21:14:39 <genjix> jgarzik: from personal experience here's what happened when I first discovered the JSON API
3204 2010-12-17 21:15:07 <genjix> i saw that huge table and so started writing a bitcoin website using php json rpc
3205 2010-12-17 21:15:09 <Tester> many webservices interfaces self-document
3206 2010-12-17 21:15:30 <genjix> however i was running into lots of problems because you dont get any error messages in php .etc
3207 2010-12-17 21:15:35 <jgarzik> bitanarchy: splitting hairs.  he created the software that creates individual currency units.
3208 2010-12-17 21:15:38 <genjix> so there was a lot of guesswork
3209 2010-12-17 21:16:01 <genjix> however then i realised after that bitcoind can be used as a coomand line tool for testing out commands
3210 2010-12-17 21:16:12 <genjix> that huge table takes away from emphasising that point
3211 2010-12-17 21:16:17 <genjix> and obfuscates everything.
3212 2010-12-17 21:16:30 <jgarzik> genjix: none of that justifies information removal after people have posted "look <here> for API list" on the web.
3213 2010-12-17 21:16:34 <genjix> (that's my personal thoughts/reasoning behind removing that table)
3214 2010-12-17 21:16:37 <Tester> wikis are a balancing act
3215 2010-12-17 21:16:40 <bitanarchy> genjix: it is important to newcomers who read the article... they may think that it cannot be trusted if it is created by one person :-)
3216 2010-12-17 21:16:53 <jgarzik> genjix: method list should be on the web somewhere, even if it's simply a paste of 'help' output.
3217 2010-12-17 21:17:02 <genjix> bitanarchy: you mean jgarzik ? we're talking about something else :p
3218 2010-12-17 21:17:16 <gavinandresen> there's a screen snapshot here:  http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=headless_client
3219 2010-12-17 21:17:16 <genjix> jgarzik: can we put it at the bottom of the page then?
3220 2010-12-17 21:17:20 <jgarzik> genjix: sure
3221 2010-12-17 21:17:31 <genjix> ok, i'll replace it.
3222 2010-12-17 21:17:46 <bitanarchy> genjix: sorry about that
3223 2010-12-17 21:17:52 <genjix> :) np
3224 2010-12-17 21:18:24 <Tester> very cool screen shot shows the help output
3225 2010-12-17 21:18:47 <genjix> jgarzik: didn't mean to destructively edit, but i asked above and everyone seemed cool with the change.
3226 2010-12-17 21:19:29 <genjix> that's why the wiki needs to be mediawiki, so we have talk pages
3227 2010-12-17 21:19:30 <bitanarchy> when was the wikipedia article restored? cannot find the info about it on the history page
3228 2010-12-17 21:19:50 <xelister> good that the articles is there imo!
3229 2010-12-17 21:20:14 <jgarzik> ideal would probably be generating a table automatically from the output.  wikipedia has a lot of bots that perform such routine article maintenance.  another example might be a bot that ensures the en.wikipedia.org article contains latest version number and release date.
3230 2010-12-17 21:20:21 <Tester> mediawiki is very easy to set up
3231 2010-12-17 21:20:42 <jgarzik> no reason why bots cannot automatically maintain doku pages
3232 2010-12-17 21:20:57 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
3233 2010-12-17 21:21:00 <jgarzik> 50 BTC to somebody who does this for 'api' page :)
3234 2010-12-17 21:21:29 <Tester> just adding this tool to the wiki would be miles ahead http://blockexplorer.com/
3235 2010-12-17 21:22:01 <genjix> wait until MT wiki is more complete
3236 2010-12-17 21:22:08 <genjix> then the bot can generate a table there.
3237 2010-12-17 21:22:35 <Tester> or just iframe it
3238 2010-12-17 21:23:10 <genjix> erm how do i roll back revisions in dokuwiki?
3239 2010-12-17 21:23:32 <bitanarchy> the wiki page will influence the exchange price... I suspect
3240 2010-12-17 21:25:08 <Tester> as it all goes viral it will be a challenge
3241 2010-12-17 21:25:28 <Tester> politics will get deep
3242 2010-12-17 21:26:54 <Tester> it is sort of like landing a spaceship in Washington DC - at first people ask WTF - then people ask how long will it be here - forever ?
3243 2010-12-17 21:28:03 <Tester> then you have the movie ET all over again
3244 2010-12-17 21:28:06 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3245 2010-12-17 21:28:38 <jgarzik> genjix: ". To revert to an old revision, select it from below, click Edit this page and save it. "
3246 2010-12-17 21:28:51 <genjix> ok thanks
3247 2010-12-17 21:29:18 <genjix> i had a draft saved :p
3248 2010-12-17 21:29:24 <genjix> not very intuitive wiki
3249 2010-12-17 21:32:35 Toadyonps3 has joined
3250 2010-12-17 21:32:46 <slush_cz> looks like I shooted all miners down by server restart :(
3251 2010-12-17 21:32:55 <slush_cz> Only Diablo's are alive, probably
3252 2010-12-17 21:33:03 kermit has joined
3253 2010-12-17 21:33:26 <kiba> recall of pooled mining
3254 2010-12-17 21:33:57 <spm_Draget> Is the bitcoin client using wxGTK-2.9?
3255 2010-12-17 21:33:59 <kiba> bitanarchy: how does it influence the exchange price?
3256 2010-12-17 21:34:07 <kiba> pool mining down?
3257 2010-12-17 21:34:12 <tcatm> spm_Draget: yep
3258 2010-12-17 21:34:14 <kiba> slush_cz: ?
3259 2010-12-17 21:34:14 <slush_cz> not down, just server restart
3260 2010-12-17 21:34:17 <kiba> meh
3261 2010-12-17 21:34:20 <kiba> non-event
3262 2010-12-17 21:34:38 <slush_cz> but some miners are not bulletproof - expect uncorrupted data
3263 2010-12-17 21:34:41 <Tester> Windows client ?
3264 2010-12-17 21:35:06 Toadyonps3 has quit (Client Quit)
3265 2010-12-17 21:38:54 <bitanarchy> The wikipedia article says "proof of work concept created by David Chaum" Is that correct? I thought Chaum invented blind signatures...
3266 2010-12-17 21:39:56 <Tester> there will be many disputes in this field about who is who did what etc
3267 2010-12-17 21:40:09 <edcba> doesn't really matter
3268 2010-12-17 21:40:47 <Tester> this is a nice piece of work http://blockexplorer.com/
3269 2010-12-17 21:42:38 <Tester> by the way is there always going to be a solution ? can that be proven ?
3270 2010-12-17 21:43:24 <tcatm> Some blocks don't have a solution.
3271 2010-12-17 21:43:44 <Tester> no matter how much time ?
3272 2010-12-17 21:44:20 <albatross_> tcatm: why not? time keeps changing with extranonce...eventually there would be
3273 2010-12-17 21:44:24 <Tester> even with nonce values changing ?
3274 2010-12-17 21:44:51 <tcatm> My cluster tries all 2^32 possible nonces in just 1.7 seconds. After that something different like nTime has to be changed.
3275 2010-12-17 21:45:18 <Tester> I saw the one algo clamps the nonce to 24 bits
3276 2010-12-17 21:45:41 <bitanarchy> What is the algorithm for the proof-of-work... is it hashcash?
3277 2010-12-17 21:45:57 <tcatm> albatross_: I considered changing extraNone as working on a new block.
3278 2010-12-17 21:46:13 <jgarzik> bitanarchy: read the bitcoin paper.  it's pretty short.
3279 2010-12-17 21:46:16 <tcatm> bitanarchy: sha256(sha256(blockheader))
3280 2010-12-17 21:46:19 <Tester> I have rebuilt a miner test bed from cpuminer and there are 4 major algos in there
3281 2010-12-17 21:46:55 <Tester> yes and block header seems to be elusive to nail down
3282 2010-12-17 21:47:05 <jgarzik> satoshi uses 0xffff, I use 0xffffff.  some miners (tcatm just said?) use 0xffffffff.
3283 2010-12-17 21:47:22 <jgarzik> I don't like all the 'getwork' traffic, at 0xffff.
3284 2010-12-17 21:47:44 <[Noodles]> slush_cz: what did you do again? ^.^
3285 2010-12-17 21:47:47 <tcatm> I always thought satoshi's tries all 2^32?
3286 2010-12-17 21:47:55 <Tester> back to the server for new priming of the pump ?
3287 2010-12-17 21:48:05 <jgarzik>         // If nothing found after trying for a while, return -1
3288 2010-12-17 21:48:05 <jgarzik>         if ((nNonce & 0xffff) == 0)
3289 2010-12-17 21:48:22 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: I'm updating server. I have to restart application server, no other way
3290 2010-12-17 21:48:30 <tcatm> Ah, is that the code that updates nTime?
3291 2010-12-17 21:48:33 <slush_cz> Crashing miners is definitely bug in miners
3292 2010-12-17 21:48:36 mndrix has left ()
3293 2010-12-17 21:48:43 mndrix has joined
3294 2010-12-17 21:48:47 <bitanarchy> tcatm: well did david chaum invent sha256... i guess not.... it was invented by people at the nsa
3295 2010-12-17 21:48:52 <jgarzik> tcatm: nTime modification is outer loop.  the above terminates the inner loop, causing nTime update.
3296 2010-12-17 21:49:12 * tcatm looks at source.
3297 2010-12-17 21:50:06 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: Restarts are finished until one seconds, but when you have open connection to server, it crash
3298 2010-12-17 21:50:18 <Tester> looking at the cpuminer platform they pull in data midstate hash1 target
3299 2010-12-17 21:51:00 <Tester> via JSON RPC
3300 2010-12-17 21:51:11 <Tester> and then crunch away
3301 2010-12-17 21:51:52 altamic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3302 2010-12-17 21:51:57 altamic has joined
3303 2010-12-17 21:52:01 <jgarzik> while (1) { extranonce++; ntime update; [re]build block; while (nonce < 0x10000) { nonce++; scanhash(); } }
3304 2010-12-17 21:52:06 <Tester> so with "an array" one can out-mine almost anyone ?
3305 2010-12-17 21:52:57 <tcatm> Tester: ??
3306 2010-12-17 21:52:59 <Tester> and the new block is very unique because it starts with a transaction tied to the miner
3307 2010-12-17 21:53:47 <newsham> http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/bitcoin/difficulty.txt
3308 2010-12-17 21:54:13 <newsham> (assuming I got my bit->difficulty conversions right.. looks close at least)
3309 2010-12-17 21:54:31 <tcatm> newsham: looks accurate
3310 2010-12-17 21:55:18 <newsham> so the time to make bitcoin was last january :)
3311 2010-12-17 21:55:42 <Tester> so a miner stuck with no solution could also change the address used to earn the coins ?
3312 2010-12-17 21:56:01 <tcatm> difficulty was easy for CPUs until june.
3313 2010-12-17 21:56:15 <tcatm> Tester: yep
3314 2010-12-17 21:56:45 <jgarzik> Tester: the more data changed in the block header, the more times you restart the hashing.  the more restarts, the more likely you will avoid a no-solution scenario.
3315 2010-12-17 21:56:57 <Tester> so it is really a massive random flip of ??? coins ???
3316 2010-12-17 21:57:28 <Tester> yes and you have to present a solution many like
3317 2010-12-17 21:57:30 <slush_cz> I think difficulty must break its exponential curve once. The big step was when people started using GPUs.
3318 2010-12-17 21:57:30 <tcatm> Not random. Rather flipping a lot of coins one by one..
3319 2010-12-17 21:57:57 <gavinandresen> I tend to think of it as everybody racing to find a needle in their own haystack.  Then when somebody finds one, you start working on a new haystack.
3320 2010-12-17 21:59:18 <Tester> And this changing value "mrkl_root":"43c63eda13687cf3712734a591687322516ee0fc5c3633d23ad0ddd21daa3938",
3321 2010-12-17 21:59:29 <jgarzik> Tester: that's the list of transactions
3322 2010-12-17 21:59:32 <jgarzik> sorta
3323 2010-12-17 22:00:05 <newsham> slush: all exponential growth curves break :)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function
3324 2010-12-17 22:00:40 <Tester> so transaction flow is so light that value does not change
3325 2010-12-17 22:01:13 <Tester> blocks average about 3 to 4 transactions
3326 2010-12-17 22:01:17 <tcatm> It doesn't change often. Yet... :)
3327 2010-12-17 22:01:39 <Tester> Visa ? one vendor ? during the holidays ?
3328 2010-12-17 22:01:52 <Tester> how many transactions per second ?
3329 2010-12-17 22:02:18 <tcatm> There's a good thread about that on the forum somwhere.
3330 2010-12-17 22:02:21 <Tester> then there is MasterCard for everything else
3331 2010-12-17 22:02:28 dwdollar1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3332 2010-12-17 22:02:32 <gavinandresen> 4 billion people in the world, buy an average of, oh, ten presents in december using their visa card....  hmm.... a bunch.
3333 2010-12-17 22:03:26 <gavinandresen> == 15, 432 transactions per second.  But visa doesn't actually do that many.
3334 2010-12-17 22:03:38 <Tester> so bitcoins is really for a superCurrency almost like eGold
3335 2010-12-17 22:03:59 <spm_Draget> First suggestion: Statuisline message when blocks are being downloaded. On first load it is kinda confusing as it looks like bc would not be doing anythign right now :P
3336 2010-12-17 22:04:43 <Tester> in the Windows client is shows "generating" when not really
3337 2010-12-17 22:04:50 <Tester> it is downloading
3338 2010-12-17 22:05:28 <Tester> then the khash/sec kicks in
3339 2010-12-17 22:05:54 <Tester> but PCs have little chance outside of pure luck
3340 2010-12-17 22:05:59 <slush_cz> newsham: The question is 'why' :)
3341 2010-12-17 22:06:05 <LobsterMan> slush_cz
3342 2010-12-17 22:06:11 <LobsterMan> the total mhash on your stats page is reporting 0
3343 2010-12-17 22:06:18 <spm_Draget> it showned nothing for a minute before it was 'generting', but okay. Running now, ready to test it all out =)
3344 2010-12-17 22:06:27 <LobsterMan> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/
3345 2010-12-17 22:06:32 <LobsterMan> Active workers (at least one share in last hour): 44
3346 2010-12-17 22:06:32 <LobsterMan> Approx. cluster performance: 0.0 Mhash/s
3347 2010-12-17 22:06:41 <newsham> slush: because exponentials grow so fast, they quickly take over the whle universe
3348 2010-12-17 22:07:24 <kiba> yay!
3349 2010-12-17 22:07:26 <kiba> a rally!
3350 2010-12-17 22:07:44 <tcatm> kiba: It's been a rally for some days now :)
3351 2010-12-17 22:07:48 * kiba thinks S3052's ability to do short term forecast is excellent
3352 2010-12-17 22:08:01 * gavinandresen thinks technical analysis is a crock
3353 2010-12-17 22:08:16 * Granttt wants a panic! :)
3354 2010-12-17 22:08:17 <Tester> voodoo market dynamics
3355 2010-12-17 22:08:18 * tcatm wonders how much S3052's analysis influences price
3356 2010-12-17 22:08:19 <kiba> maybe it's a confirmation bias
3357 2010-12-17 22:08:28 * gavinandresen thinks kiba is right
3358 2010-12-17 22:08:29 <newsham> transactions per day: http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/bitcoin/volumes.txt
3359 2010-12-17 22:08:35 <Tester> pump and dump is real
3360 2010-12-17 22:08:46 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: I broke mhash rate in update before few minutes. It is already fixed, will appear until one hour. I don't want to restart it again, will wait until application server restart threads by self
3361 2010-12-17 22:08:50 <tcatm> newsham: How are you generating that data?
3362 2010-12-17 22:08:54 <LobsterMan> hehe
3363 2010-12-17 22:09:04 <newsham> tcatm: summing len(block['tx']) for all blocks with same date.
3364 2010-12-17 22:09:15 <newsham> (ie. it includes the new coin)
3365 2010-12-17 22:09:57 piotrp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3366 2010-12-17 22:10:06 * tcatm thinks about adding block chain charts
3367 2010-12-17 22:10:18 <Tester> 93183 'Sun Nov 21' 10037
3368 2010-12-17 22:10:30 <newsham> tcatm: where are you charts at?
3369 2010-12-17 22:10:42 <tcatm> bitcoincharts.com (but now block chain information yet)
3370 2010-12-17 22:10:45 <tcatm> no*
3371 2010-12-17 22:11:00 <Tester> need http://Muckety.com
3372 2010-12-17 22:11:00 <newsham> pretty.
3373 2010-12-17 22:11:01 Cusipzzz has joined
3374 2010-12-17 22:11:18 StrangeCharm has joined
3375 2010-12-17 22:11:59 <Tester> track all of Madoff's buddies
3376 2010-12-17 22:16:56 dwdollar1 has joined
3377 2010-12-17 22:18:20 Tester has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3378 2010-12-17 22:19:19 jjjx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3379 2010-12-17 22:19:26 jjjx has joined
3380 2010-12-17 22:20:02 <spm_Draget> Since transactions reveal relations between users, who is able to see who else I paid money to?
3381 2010-12-17 22:20:02 jjjx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3382 2010-12-17 22:20:23 <helmut> how fast is a transaction or block broadcasted to the network usually?
3383 2010-12-17 22:20:43 <T_X> slush
3384 2010-12-17 22:20:58 <helmut> spm_Draget: everyone, who can look at the block chain. try blockexplorer.com
3385 2010-12-17 22:21:07 <T_X> slush_cz: I'm somehow having trouble setting the send threshold
3386 2010-12-17 22:21:56 <helmut> spm_Draget: if you do not want to publish whom you are sending money to, ask the recipient for a freshly generated address.
3387 2010-12-17 22:21:58 <slush_cz> Already reported, working on
3388 2010-12-17 22:22:12 <spm_Draget> So if I had multiple accounts and did not want one knowing one of them to know the others, I should not transfer money between them. Hmm
3389 2010-12-17 22:22:15 <ne0futur> spm_Draget: not "I paid money to" its just a btc adress, you can have 1000 btc adresses , not related to "I"
3390 2010-12-17 22:22:18 <T_X> slush_cz: kk, thx
3391 2010-12-17 22:22:21 <helmut> spm_Draget: staying unidentified is a bit harder. you could try moving money to mybitcoin.com and later move it back.
3392 2010-12-17 22:23:00 <helmut> spm_Draget: correct. if you do not want your addresses to correlate, do not move money.
3393 2010-12-17 22:23:07 <newsham> neofutur: what happens when you want to coalesce all of that currency to spend it?
3394 2010-12-17 22:24:08 <spm_Draget> I am still all excited about it. Very great stuff guys =)
3395 2010-12-17 22:24:27 jjjx has joined
3396 2010-12-17 22:24:53 <helmut> spm_Draget: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
3397 2010-12-17 22:25:48 albatross_ has left ()
3398 2010-12-17 22:26:50 <spm_Draget> reCaptcha enslaving the other users to train their OCR engines withotu their knowlege. :P If you are an evil kind of person try this: write the word that is more readable with some mistakes like rn instead of m or i instead of l. Thte one less scrambled is the one they train and they belive almost anything there :-Ü
3399 2010-12-17 22:27:16 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3400 2010-12-17 22:27:19 <kiba> meh
3401 2010-12-17 22:27:29 <kiba> just ask people to pay microbitcoin for the opportunity to post
3402 2010-12-17 22:27:59 <slush_cz> T_X:  Fixed, server will refresh sources after ~30 minutes
3403 2010-12-17 22:28:32 tg has joined
3404 2010-12-17 22:28:47 <T_X> slush_cz: kk, thx :). you should add a configurable, automatic donation option
3405 2010-12-17 22:29:12 <slush_cz> already in my todo list, you are not the first :)
3406 2010-12-17 22:29:15 <T_X> and doublec, you should too :) (or was it someone else maintining that code?)
3407 2010-12-17 22:29:21 <slush_cz> For this time, I have wallet address on homepage ;)
3408 2010-12-17 22:29:22 <T_X> ah, hehe
3409 2010-12-17 22:29:32 <T_X> yes, saw that one :)
3410 2010-12-17 22:29:52 <spm_Draget> Is there something like a bitcoin-chat chanel where I can bother you all with random question withotu disrupting dev-related talk? o.o
3411 2010-12-17 22:29:52 kiba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3412 2010-12-17 22:31:29 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: here should be fine
3413 2010-12-17 22:31:30 Kiba has joined
3414 2010-12-17 22:31:30 <MT`AwAy> xD
3415 2010-12-17 22:32:37 <spm_Draget> I started digging into i2p development and they are a new bitcoin user, that way I learned about it. My cryptographic knowlege is only average, but I know some typ of attacks on anonymity networks. So I wonder:
3416 2010-12-17 22:33:43 <helmut> does bitcoin always use the same byteorder for transmitting hashes?
3417 2010-12-17 22:34:01 <helmut> I ask, cause when I try to getblocks 'o\xe2\x8c\n\xb6\xf1\xb3r\xc1\xa6\xa2F\xaec\xf7O\x93\x1e\x83e\xe1Z\x08\x9ch\xd6\x19\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00' I get no answer.
3418 2010-12-17 22:34:02 altamic has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3419 2010-12-17 22:34:09 <helmut> however when I reverse it, I get answers.
3420 2010-12-17 22:34:27 <spm_Draget> Attacker playing MITM and faking lots of nodes that all pretend to have solved lots of blocks and thus having a huge BTC ammount? Ofcourse if I have the actual adress of someone an attacker could not fake it, but if he also faked for example the website where I took the adress from?
3421 2010-12-17 22:34:53 <helmut> AAA_awright: if they have solved blocks, then you can easily verify the blocks.
3422 2010-12-17 22:35:07 <helmut> wrong tab completion
3423 2010-12-17 22:35:23 <helmut> spm_Draget: if they don't share the blocks, noone believes.
3424 2010-12-17 22:35:47 <spm_Draget> Oh okay. So they can only share actual results, otherwise my client would detect that they did not really sovle them and thus lie?
3425 2010-12-17 22:35:58 <newsham> amusing: http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000002a509cebc6955412ac097b66e540845332b76c175a0e828b8f8eb
3426 2010-12-17 22:36:07 <helmut> once you find a block, you broadcast it.
3427 2010-12-17 22:36:28 <helmut> then everyone can compute the hash and verify that it really is a block
3428 2010-12-17 22:37:23 <spm_Draget> I see
3429 2010-12-17 22:37:34 <helmut> newsham: is there any reason to allow tx with from==to?
3430 2010-12-17 22:37:44 <newsham> helmut: *shrug* is there a reason not to?
3431 2010-12-17 22:37:54 <helmut> newsham: you just showed reason :-p
3432 2010-12-17 22:37:57 <slush_cz> RichardG: http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/
3433 2010-12-17 22:38:12 <newsham> helmut: exercise to reader: accomplish the same thing without directly trasnfering from and to the same id
3434 2010-12-17 22:38:23 <helmut> newsham: ok.
3435 2010-12-17 22:38:23 altamic has joined
3436 2010-12-17 22:38:35 <helmut> newsham: this is where the txfee comes into play later.
3437 2010-12-17 22:38:45 <newsham> *nod*
3438 2010-12-17 22:39:25 <helmut> so could someone explain this byte order thingy to me?
3439 2010-12-17 22:40:03 <newsham> helmut: is that a query to bitcoind?
3440 2010-12-17 22:40:13 <helmut> newsham: yes
3441 2010-12-17 22:40:35 <newsham> so you're going to have to query bitcoind in whatever format bitcoind uses internally to reference the block.
3442 2010-12-17 22:40:52 <newsham> which is going to be some fixed endian.
3443 2010-12-17 22:41:18 <helmut> yes. however this seems to be not the case.
3444 2010-12-17 22:41:59 <helmut> when I receive blocks via inv from bitcoind I can see that they are little endian, cause they end in zeroes.
3445 2010-12-17 22:42:01 <newsham> fwiw, I dont think "endian" is relevant to hashes anyway, since the output of a hash is a byte string
3446 2010-12-17 22:42:08 <newsham> not some multi-byte unit
3447 2010-12-17 22:42:27 <helmut> however if I try to getblocks genesis in little, I get no result.
3448 2010-12-17 22:42:36 <helmut> when I try genesis in big, I get results.
3449 2010-12-17 22:42:42 <newsham> oh.. I right, when treated as an integer to see if they "win" there will be an endian.
3450 2010-12-17 22:42:46 <newsham> s/I right/right/
3451 2010-12-17 22:43:54 <newsham> the hashes I see start with zeros, not end with them.
3452 2010-12-17 22:44:05 <helmut> if you look on the wire, they end.
3453 2010-12-17 22:44:06 <newsham> but I got them from bitcoind with the "gethash" patch.
3454 2010-12-17 22:44:17 <helmut> I got them from bitcoind port 8333
3455 2010-12-17 22:44:21 <newsham> interesting.  sorry, I'm not familiar with the wire format.
3456 2010-12-17 22:46:29 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3457 2010-12-17 22:50:51 altamic has joined
3458 2010-12-17 22:52:10 <helmut> cap. getblocks really takes reversed hashes!
3459 2010-12-17 22:52:28 <helmut> how can I get that stuff that the author of this protocol smoked?
3460 2010-12-17 22:52:34 Toadyonps3 has joined
3461 2010-12-17 22:54:23 Tester has joined
3462 2010-12-17 23:01:31 Tester has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3463 2010-12-17 23:03:15 <T_X> slush_cz: what do you think about the idea to run the mining server on a different port? a port which is usally not blocked by firewalls (like 8080 i.e.)
3464 2010-12-17 23:03:24 <T_X> or does anywone think that might be a bad idea?
3465 2010-12-17 23:03:35 <T_X> *anyone
3466 2010-12-17 23:03:58 <slush_cz> T_X: It is already running on http://mining.bitcon.cz/getwork/
3467 2010-12-17 23:04:30 <slush_cz> T_X: But miners does not allow path in URL, unfortunately. There is no reason for that
3468 2010-12-17 23:04:39 <slush_cz> T_X: Again, ask your miner author :)
3469 2010-12-17 23:04:45 <T_X> slush_cz: ah, ok :)
3470 2010-12-17 23:04:54 <slush_cz> jgarzik's miner is working well
3471 2010-12-17 23:04:56 <T_X> yeah, port 80 would be even better, I guess :)
3472 2010-12-17 23:06:22 <slush_cz> T_X: using 80 is even little bit faster, because there is internal mapping between 8332 and 80 ;)
3473 2010-12-17 23:06:39 <slush_cz> But nothing critical, I think those 0.02 ms spent on mapping is pointless
3474 2010-12-17 23:06:50 <T_X> definitely :P
3475 2010-12-17 23:09:13 <altamic> helmut: what is your problem?
3476 2010-12-17 23:12:14 <helmut> altamic: if you get hashes from blocks, you need to reverse them before feeding to getblocks.
3477 2010-12-17 23:13:12 <mizerydearia> Hiya slush_cz.  Was it you that created an account at pizza4btc?
3478 2010-12-17 23:13:27 <slush_cz> mizerydearia: yes
3479 2010-12-17 23:13:56 <mizerydearia> cool ^_^
3480 2010-12-17 23:19:21 <slush_cz> !pool
3481 2010-12-17 23:19:23 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 2hrs 11mins 26secs ago): 66 clients, 101776 khash/s, next block est. 5days 23hrs 37mins 18secs
3482 2010-12-17 23:19:28 <slush_cz> !newpool
3483 2010-12-17 23:19:30 <RichardG> New pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 17/Dec/2010 01:46:42, 33780 shares contributed, 1789596 khash/s
3484 2010-12-17 23:20:11 <xelister> actually, what does exactly Attempt mean? Diablo-D3?
3485 2010-12-17 23:20:16 <LobsterMan> !newpool
3486 2010-12-17 23:20:18 <RichardG> New pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 17/Dec/2010 01:46:42, 33797 shares contributed, 1789415 khash/s
3487 2010-12-17 23:20:40 <slush_cz> xelister: It was question to who?
3488 2010-12-17 23:21:05 <xelister> to anyone that knows
3489 2010-12-17 23:21:25 <slush_cz> T_X Thanks!
3490 2010-12-17 23:21:38 <xelister> Tired of pooled mining with no result? GET PAYED RIGHT NOW! doing something usefull! Send pic of "Xelister and bitcoin rock! :*" written with pen: 0.01 BTC if on hand; If ur cute girl: 0.05, 0.10 on back or below neck, 0.20 for breasts. Not faked! 3 photos >1 MPix each. CreativeCommons licensed, readable and nice. Face hidden is ok.
3491 2010-12-17 23:22:17 <mizerydearia> s/PAYED/PAID/
3492 2010-12-17 23:22:22 <xelister> thanks mizerydearia
3493 2010-12-17 23:22:29 <genjix> xelister: ill get cute girl to do it for 50 btc
3494 2010-12-17 23:22:29 <T_X> slush_cz: you're welcome :). thanks for the nice service hotline :D
3495 2010-12-17 23:22:32 * xelister ponders if (>18yo) is obvious or if it should be there
3496 2010-12-17 23:22:35 <ne0futur> #bitcoin-dev or #bitcoin-ads ?
3497 2010-12-17 23:22:41 <xelister> genjix: normal picture, not perv ;)
3498 2010-12-17 23:22:48 <ne0futur> better post ads on #bc-news
3499 2010-12-17 23:22:49 <genjix> yeah ok
3500 2010-12-17 23:22:59 <slush_cz> T_X:  :)
3501 2010-12-17 23:23:04 <Kiba> yum
3502 2010-12-17 23:23:09 <Kiba> Chinese susagage
3503 2010-12-17 23:23:13 <Kiba> never get tired of those
3504 2010-12-17 23:23:27 <Cusipzzz> lol
3505 2010-12-17 23:23:50 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3506 2010-12-17 23:23:51 <xelister> genjix: it is so supe low (0.20 BTC instead like 50 BTC) for breats, mostly by comparsion to TOALL IDIOCITY of polled CPU miner where people can wait a month to get 0.007 BTC (lol!)
3507 2010-12-17 23:24:01 <Cusipzzz> lol
3508 2010-12-17 23:24:32 <Kiba> meh
3509 2010-12-17 23:24:44 <Kiba> I will get .45 BTC
3510 2010-12-17 23:24:45 <Kiba> and rising
3511 2010-12-17 23:24:49 <genjix> gotcha.
3512 2010-12-17 23:25:40 <mizerydearia> xelister, You should try posting that on 4chan ^_^
3513 2010-12-17 23:25:46 <xelister> Kiba: and I will get 600 BTC <_<  while you're getting 0.45 BTC that was my point ;) I dont want to brag here (anyway its nothing compared to ArtForz), but just pooled *cpu* mining is totally irrevelant
3514 2010-12-17 23:26:01 <Kiba> Meh
3515 2010-12-17 23:26:10 <xelister> so I find this a mildly amusing and fun thing =)
3516 2010-12-17 23:26:11 <Kiba> I make the bulk of my income from selling art and donation
3517 2010-12-17 23:26:16 <Cusipzzz> 600 mining?
3518 2010-12-17 23:26:22 <Kiba> mining is just a tiny bonus
3519 2010-12-17 23:26:24 <xelister> Cusipzzz: 5970
3520 2010-12-17 23:26:28 <Kiba> electricity, I don't care about
3521 2010-12-17 23:26:32 <Kiba> it's subsidized by my parents
3522 2010-12-17 23:26:39 <Cusipzzz> ah
3523 2010-12-17 23:26:41 <xelister> Kiba: oh? well, good for you :) how is the art going, it makes sense?
3524 2010-12-17 23:26:53 <xelister> btw
3525 2010-12-17 23:26:58 <Kiba> xelister: I don't have a lot of fans, yet...apperantly
3526 2010-12-17 23:27:02 <donpdonp> Kiba: is there a site for your art-for-btc?
3527 2010-12-17 23:27:10 <Kiba> no
3528 2010-12-17 23:27:18 <Kiba> I am tied up in 3 different web project
3529 2010-12-17 23:27:22 <xelister> if someone would be a girl, and her bf would pay for electricity, could we call her GOLDDIGGER? ;) and what if she was black :o
3530 2010-12-17 23:27:37 <genjix> haha
3531 2010-12-17 23:28:02 <genjix> dont get joke with the black part though Oo...
3532 2010-12-17 23:28:32 <xelister> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vwNcNOTVzY   we need this with bitcoins in background =)
3533 2010-12-17 23:28:33 * Kiba ponders ot himself
3534 2010-12-17 23:28:34 <Kiba> oh rihgt
3535 2010-12-17 23:28:36 <Kiba> I should be coding
3536 2010-12-17 23:30:03 <xelister> genjix: let me help you with the 2nd part of joke ->  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4BmDAYzATk
3537 2010-12-17 23:31:00 <xelister> btw thanks YT faggots for beeeping and censoring all actuall commedic use of n- word, while showing violence and shit with no problems
3538 2010-12-17 23:32:26 <genjix> godbless us once <video> becomes a common tag
3539 2010-12-17 23:32:33 <genjix> then we can dump YT
3540 2010-12-17 23:32:34 <xelister> yea \o/
3541 2010-12-17 23:40:43 <altamic> enough C++ for now
3542 2010-12-17 23:40:49 <altamic> good night folks
3543 2010-12-17 23:41:47 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
3544 2010-12-17 23:42:02 <RichardG> slush_cz: got your json, implementing
3545 2010-12-17 23:42:18 maximi89 has joined
3546 2010-12-17 23:42:27 <mndrix> must bitcoin client be closed to backup wallet.dat?
3547 2010-12-17 23:42:45 <xelister> mndrix: better yea, but, there is RPC call to do so
3548 2010-12-17 23:42:56 <mndrix> great, thanks
3549 2010-12-17 23:43:04 <xelister> ~/bitcoin help
3550 2010-12-17 23:43:04 <RichardG> but there's no way to get the active block's number, slush_cz
3551 2010-12-17 23:43:05 <xelister> backupwallet <destination>
3552 2010-12-17 23:44:18 <slush_cz> RichardG: what do you mean?
3553 2010-12-17 23:44:50 <slush_cz> There is no block before we find them
3554 2010-12-17 23:45:11 <RichardG> oh, let me see then
3555 2010-12-17 23:45:11 <slush_cz> ask getinfo()['blocks'] to last known block...
3556 2010-12-17 23:48:54 <RichardG> testing going on #bitcoin-bot
3557 2010-12-17 23:52:31 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.2)
3558 2010-12-17 23:59:42 skeledrew has joined