1 2010-12-18 00:00:44 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2 2010-12-18 00:11:11 DoomDumas has left ()
3 2010-12-18 00:11:40 * genjix pokes MT`AwAy
4 2010-12-18 00:11:46 <MT`AwAy> mh?
5 2010-12-18 00:14:09 <helmut> could someone help me about how to use getblocks?
6 2010-12-18 00:14:43 <helmut> I tried to get blocks 500 and up, but get block 1 to 500.
7 2010-12-18 00:14:53 <helmut> my invocation was: '\xf9\xbe\xb4\xd9getblocks\x00\x00\x00D\x00\x00\x00\xf9!\xc5\x068|\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00O\xf6d\xbf\xa7\xd2\x17\xf6\xdfd\xc1bp\x89\x06\x14)@\x8e\x1d\xa5\xef\x90;\x8f<w\xdb\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
8 2010-12-18 00:15:05 <MT`AwAy> wtf is that ?
9 2010-12-18 00:15:16 <helmut> it's a getblocks command
10 2010-12-18 00:15:27 <MT`AwAy> oh, you're talking client language
11 2010-12-18 00:15:40 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
12 2010-12-18 00:15:40 <gribble> 98118
13 2010-12-18 00:16:45 <helmut> Also the getblocks packet seems to be some kind dynamic. bitcoind reports read errors for certain packets I emit
14 2010-12-18 00:16:53 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I think you'll have to issue getblocks again with the previously last block you received as "hash start"
15 2010-12-18 00:17:04 <helmut> MT`AwAy: guess what I did.
16 2010-12-18 00:18:15 <helmut> if you look at CBlockLocator's serialize you'll also notice an optional version field.
17 2010-12-18 00:19:33 <helmut> oh shit. the spec is so damn wrong about getblocks
18 2010-12-18 00:19:43 <MT`AwAy> the spec is wrong about all
19 2010-12-18 00:20:27 <helmut> I am about to improve it
20 2010-12-18 00:20:53 <MT`AwAy> that would be appreciated
21 2010-12-18 00:20:58 <Zarutian> "Read the source, Luke CodeWalker"
22 2010-12-18 00:21:03 <MT`AwAy> I (partially) depend on that spec to write my bitcoin client :D
23 2010-12-18 00:21:50 <helmut> in what language do you write it?
24 2010-12-18 00:22:07 <helmut> Zarutian: the source is crap
25 2010-12-18 00:22:20 <MT`AwAy> helmut: C/C++
26 2010-12-18 00:22:32 <helmut> MT`AwAy: rewrite from scratch or modification?
27 2010-12-18 00:22:38 <MT`AwAy> scratch
28 2010-12-18 00:22:42 <helmut> just why?
29 2010-12-18 00:22:43 <MT`AwAy> and I try to have my source correctly made (ie, no code in .h files, no HUGE main.cpp)
30 2010-12-18 00:22:51 <MT`AwAy> (no boost)
31 2010-12-18 00:22:56 <xelister> MT`AwAy: boost is awesome
32 2010-12-18 00:23:01 <xelister> C++ program without boost usually is shite
33 2010-12-18 00:23:11 <xelister> about the .h and main.cpp - then of course you're correct
34 2010-12-18 00:23:48 <helmut> yeah. my client downloads and verifies blockchain now!
35 2010-12-18 00:24:01 <MT`AwAy> helmut: language ?
36 2010-12-18 00:24:14 <helmut> python
37 2010-12-18 00:24:20 <MT`AwAy> ok
38 2010-12-18 00:24:27 <slush_cz> helmut: Are sources available?
39 2010-12-18 00:24:57 <helmut> slush_cz: maybe try ArtForz' client.
40 2010-12-18 00:25:03 <helmut> slush_cz: mine is not useful yet
41 2010-12-18 00:25:08 <MT`AwAy> xelister: using or not using boost is just another technical choice. Since I use Qt for the UI, I didn't feel necessary to include another lib that provides features already provided by Qt (async networking, threads management, etc)
42 2010-12-18 00:25:56 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
43 2010-12-18 00:26:24 nova has quit (Quit: Page closed)
44 2010-12-18 00:26:25 <slush_cz> helmut: I'm not interested in primary development, but I would like to help in some aspect. ArtForz's client is dead, I don't think he is still working on it
45 2010-12-18 00:26:41 <helmut> slush_cz: in what aspect?
46 2010-12-18 00:27:33 <slush_cz> helmut: Depends. I'm not familiar with lowlevel thinks and counting hashes itself, but have experiences in networking and software architecture
47 2010-12-18 00:27:52 <helmut> slush_cz: beware that my development is merely experimentation. I don't plan on full client, more like code for fun. when it's no more fun, I let it rot.
48 2010-12-18 00:27:53 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: and python I guess
49 2010-12-18 00:28:08 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Of course :)
50 2010-12-18 00:28:27 <helmut> slush_cz: we have like 5 "start of implementation in python" by now.
51 2010-12-18 00:28:37 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Cannot imagine I have to write in C something else than homework :-D
52 2010-12-18 00:28:46 <MT`AwAy> :D
53 2010-12-18 00:28:51 <helmut> there's pybitcoin (with no code), ArtFortz' client, some wallet inspector, ...
54 2010-12-18 00:28:57 <slush_cz> helmut: I know it and I think it would be great to join this effort
55 2010-12-18 00:29:11 <Diablo-D3> [06:18:34] <xelister> actually, what does exactly Attempt mean? Diablo-D3?
56 2010-12-18 00:29:15 <Diablo-D3> read the source
57 2010-12-18 00:29:17 <Diablo-D3> H == 0
58 2010-12-18 00:30:17 <helmut> slush_cz: what would you use for storing blockchain in python?
59 2010-12-18 00:30:40 <helmut> I just figured that sqlite3 was a bad choice.
60 2010-12-18 00:31:02 <slush_cz> helmut: I understand pybitcoin's way, because there is very bad documentation. I'm not sure if maintaining code from reverse engineered official client will be acceptable for long term.
61 2010-12-18 00:31:03 <jgarzik> helmut: it's no worse than less-flexible key/value stores
62 2010-12-18 00:31:21 <slush_cz> helmut: Don't know data structure, cannot tell
63 2010-12-18 00:31:40 <helmut> jgarzik: it provides too much integrity to get any performance
64 2010-12-18 00:31:47 mtgox has joined
65 2010-12-18 00:32:03 <jgarzik> helmut: various levels of transaction sync'ing are optional, just like with db4 and other key/value databases
66 2010-12-18 00:32:45 <helmut> slush_cz: well you need to find blocks by their hashes, you need to find transactions by their hashes, you need to find blocks pointing to a given block.
67 2010-12-18 00:33:22 <slush_cz> I think it is bad that standard is made by bitcoin's code itself. Maybe I want too much but every serious software use some kind of standardization process.
68 2010-12-18 00:33:30 <helmut> slush_cz++
69 2010-12-18 00:33:58 <helmut> imho bitcoin is worse than gnupg
70 2010-12-18 00:34:15 <helmut> not only is the source complete crap, there also is no spec.
71 2010-12-18 00:34:47 <helmut> I wonder why it works at al.
72 2010-12-18 00:35:00 noagendamarket has joined
73 2010-12-18 00:35:51 <slush_cz> helmut: Yeah, I'm experienced in designing key/value storages, but why does not use something "normal" like sqllite? Too slow? Too much data?
74 2010-12-18 00:36:14 <slush_cz> helmut: And no unit tests ;)
75 2010-12-18 00:36:34 <helmut> slush_cz: I used to commit after each insert, which turned out *very* poor performance.
76 2010-12-18 00:36:58 <helmut> read performance is fine
77 2010-12-18 00:37:22 <helmut> slush_cz: let's start to fix the spec: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoins_draft_spec_0_0_1
78 2010-12-18 00:37:31 <slush_cz> Yes, but it is not about sqllite itself, but about write performance of small fragmented writes
79 2010-12-18 00:37:39 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
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82 2010-12-18 00:37:46 Granttt has quit (Changing host)
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84 2010-12-18 00:38:18 <slush_cz> helmut: Yes, and it is the problem I said before while. I don't understand core and C enough to specify protocol/standard
85 2010-12-18 00:39:17 <slush_cz> helmut: You can make commit log to fast write and crunch it to database later...
86 2010-12-18 00:39:23 <slush_cz> but I think it is overcomplicated
87 2010-12-18 00:39:44 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I know the fuck H==0
88 2010-12-18 00:39:55 <slush_cz> helmut: by the way I think twisted is ideal framework for application like bitcoin
89 2010-12-18 00:40:05 <helmut> slush_cz: guess what I'm building on
90 2010-12-18 00:40:16 <slush_cz> cool!
91 2010-12-18 00:40:21 <xelister> Diablo-D3: ;) what is meaning of this, and how much attempts perh say Mhash there should be
92 2010-12-18 00:41:04 <helmut> hmm I wonder whether I can get money, for this client %-)
93 2010-12-18 00:41:11 <slush_cz> helmut: So I can only troll here for now and tell again and again "WE NEED SPECS!"
94 2010-12-18 00:41:25 <helmut> the android client attracked like 1400btc
95 2010-12-18 00:41:35 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
96 2010-12-18 00:41:44 <slush_cz> I know it is absolutely boring, but after that, we can make great things with bitcoins
97 2010-12-18 00:41:51 <LobsterMan> slush_cz it seems like the stats page will refresh as fast as you can click refresh, i dont know if that could be used to dos or anything but you may want to reduce it to only update every 5secs or something?
98 2010-12-18 00:42:06 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: You are right
99 2010-12-18 00:42:32 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: I'm planning some caching. It is favorite page, I see many access in logs :))
100 2010-12-18 00:42:35 <Diablo-D3> xelister: 50 in 45 minutes is roughly 75 mhash
101 2010-12-18 00:42:44 <Diablo-D3> xelister: art knows the math for this
102 2010-12-18 00:43:08 <Kiba> hmm
103 2010-12-18 00:43:12 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I ment, there is expected fixed amount of Attempts per each say Thashes calculated? And this is constant or changes with diff?
104 2010-12-18 00:43:20 * LobsterMan slaps xelister around with a heavy metal pole
105 2010-12-18 00:43:21 <Kiba> this Khan dude could replace 90% of all teachers
106 2010-12-18 00:43:30 <da2ce7> G'morning
107 2010-12-18 00:44:07 <helmut> hmm not fast and stuff yet, but I already downloaded block 2855
108 2010-12-18 00:44:18 <Diablo-D3> xelister: its not related to diff, and its constant to the formula.
109 2010-12-18 00:44:43 <Diablo-D3> xelister: there is an expected fix amount per time based on how fast your GPU is
110 2010-12-18 00:44:45 <genjix> http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/wiki/ <-- someone visit there. On the left hand side is the toolbox hidden? is there logo blue?
111 2010-12-18 00:45:41 <tcatm> genjix: yep
112 2010-12-18 00:45:51 <genjix> thanks :)
113 2010-12-18 00:46:06 <genjix> for some reason the toolbox shows in chrome but is hidden in firefox
114 2010-12-18 00:46:09 <genjix> weird
115 2010-12-18 00:46:32 <tcatm> I'm using chrome.
116 2010-12-18 00:46:42 <LobsterMan> slush_cz are you making any btc off of this pooled mining thing, or just running a miner and profiting that way?
117 2010-12-18 00:46:44 <tcatm> Only Navigation is shown.
118 2010-12-18 00:46:45 <genjix> oh cool
119 2010-12-18 00:46:46 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: It is 24 hours until last block. Terror! But averything looks working, so probability is against us
120 2010-12-18 00:46:53 <genjix> wonder why i see it then in chrome...
121 2010-12-18 00:47:01 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: It is for free
122 2010-12-18 00:47:30 <LobsterMan> i guess you can't really take any percentage of the generation or you'd scare people awaty
123 2010-12-18 00:47:33 <LobsterMan> away*
124 2010-12-18 00:47:44 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: funny :-D
125 2010-12-18 00:48:17 <LobsterMan> and if you were to take a negligible amount, say .1% from each block, you really wouldn't make any btc from that either
126 2010-12-18 00:48:25 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: It is still in beta stage. I cannot get paid for something which is not rock solid yet. I cannot tell it will be for free everytime, but I think price will be very reasonable
127 2010-12-18 00:48:33 <LobsterMan> heh
128 2010-12-18 00:49:05 <da2ce7> there will be compitition, so cannot set the price too hight.
129 2010-12-18 00:49:09 <LobsterMan> you still need to fix "treshold" on the profile page too :P
130 2010-12-18 00:49:10 <da2ce7> high
131 2010-12-18 00:49:50 <xelister> Diablo-D3: ok I ask coz it seemed like
132 2010-12-18 00:50:00 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: I know, I know. But what I should do when site is 24/7, 20 requests/sec and one second outage will shot down all clients? :-D
133 2010-12-18 00:50:11 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: I need to rename fields in database
134 2010-12-18 00:50:12 <xelister> [2010-12-17_17:34:37] 538 Mhash/sec (cycle=301 attempts=46)
135 2010-12-18 00:50:13 <LobsterMan> yeah good point
136 2010-12-18 00:50:23 <xelister> [2010-12-17_19:39:39] 535 Mhash/sec (cycle=7801 attempts=982)
137 2010-12-18 00:50:48 <da2ce7> to make it more stable in the short time you should consider doubleing the dificulity.
138 2010-12-18 00:50:56 <da2ce7> *term
139 2010-12-18 00:51:00 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: I made restart today, it was < 1 second! and there will be suddenly 50% of workers
140 2010-12-18 00:51:16 <xelister> actually, wait, nm, this is constant (number of attempts per second of mining in given conditons) so all ok
141 2010-12-18 00:51:36 <xelister> I guess we can use number of attempts per second to verify that mining appears to be working?
142 2010-12-18 00:52:23 <slush_cz> LobsterMan: It is so funny that people believe in many other services which store its bitcoins and don't believe me that I will not steal theirs 0.1 BTC
143 2010-12-18 00:52:52 <LobsterMan> it just takes time, once people determine you are legit or not, word will spread that you are either good or bad ;)
144 2010-12-18 00:53:25 noagendamarket has joined
145 2010-12-18 00:53:31 <da2ce7> what you should do is charge for your service, and make the accounting public.
146 2010-12-18 00:53:31 <slush_cz> da2ce7: But I need to make dynamic difficulty to not shot down slow clients. Mining one hour for one share is on the edge and this is with current difficulty and 1000khash/s
147 2010-12-18 00:53:52 <da2ce7> then people won't claim that you are stealing, as it is already proffitable.
148 2010-12-18 00:54:03 <Diablo-D3> xelister: why are you printing attempts with debug mode off? thats useless
149 2010-12-18 00:54:14 <slush_cz> da2ce7: It is not about accounting. If I want to cheat, I will simply count my shares twice.
150 2010-12-18 00:54:18 <xelister> Diablo-D3: just the count
151 2010-12-18 00:54:32 <Diablo-D3> xelister: but the count is useless unless you happen to know art
152 2010-12-18 00:54:58 <slush_cz> da2ce7: And all accounting IS public, I always post sendings to forum. There will be history in application soon. Don't forget it is beta, not many useful stuff done yet
153 2010-12-18 00:55:39 <da2ce7> yeah, just trying to think of way of boosting confidence, historicaly, one of the best ways to do this is to charge for the service.
154 2010-12-18 00:56:15 <slush_cz> da2ce7: I plan to make volunteer donations as % from user's reward
155 2010-12-18 00:56:27 <da2ce7> people won't be suspicious of ulterior motives then
156 2010-12-18 00:56:35 <slush_cz> Some people already donated me directly, which I'm very happy for it
157 2010-12-18 00:56:50 <da2ce7> :)
158 2010-12-18 00:56:51 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
159 2010-12-18 00:57:19 <slush_cz> da2ce7: So you tell me when I will set 100% fees, everybody will mine with me, right? :-D
160 2010-12-18 00:58:00 <da2ce7> slush, yeah, ofcourse! set the fees to something like 2% or the 0.6% that mtgox has.
161 2010-12-18 01:00:36 <da2ce7> if you set the fees to 2% (so you share out 49BTC and keep 1BTC for yourself), and you write that all over the site. People will be more inlined to trust you.
162 2010-12-18 01:01:27 <slush_cz> da2ce7: I will see. Almost 2 ghashes are pretty OK for first two days. When there will not be any problems, maybe I introduce some fees. 1 BTC from block sounds reasonable.
163 2010-12-18 01:02:09 <slush_cz> da2ce7: I don;t think so, because they will tell 'he takes 1 BTC and also fakes his shares" :-D
164 2010-12-18 01:03:14 <da2ce7> no, but they just say: 'slush makes his proffit from faking his shares'
165 2010-12-18 01:03:59 <da2ce7> but if you take a honest cut, then they must say, 'slush makes is 1BTC and is greedy so he also fakes his shares'
166 2010-12-18 01:04:11 <da2ce7> the second argument is much weaker.
167 2010-12-18 01:04:37 <slush_cz> da2ce7: Currently, the pool is really fun for me, I'm enjoying that. Trust me that I can earn much more money per hour by my job than faking shares of my GPU :-D
168 2010-12-18 01:05:08 <Kiba> bitcoin! turbocharging the economy!
169 2010-12-18 01:05:43 <da2ce7> lol ofcourse, but people are naturaly inclined to distrust charity. that is just the way we are.
170 2010-12-18 01:05:51 <slush_cz> ...by spending tens of hours of my work on free service and then fake my gpu shares...
171 2010-12-18 01:06:31 <slush_cz> da2ce7: Reality is much more simple. I'm speculating on NASDAQ and programming because it is very flat those days :-D
172 2010-12-18 01:07:06 <da2ce7> slush, I know it is silly; I am just trying to help you out with the psychology.
173 2010-12-18 01:07:19 <slush_cz> da2ce7: I get it and thank you.
174 2010-12-18 01:07:38 <helmut> slush_cz: what did you suggest to improve sqlite performance again?
175 2010-12-18 01:08:00 <helmut> slush_cz: I have now solved most issues, so only the io performance is a real problem now.
176 2010-12-18 01:08:05 <slush_cz> da2ce7: I will introduce fees. And I will announce "Users press me to stop provide service for free!" :-D
177 2010-12-18 01:08:23 <slush_cz> helmut: Sorry, I probably skip many of your comments
178 2010-12-18 01:08:42 <helmut> slush_cz: oh I was a bit idle. ;-)
179 2010-12-18 01:09:28 acous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
180 2010-12-18 01:09:45 <slush_cz> helmut: I do not have real experience with sqllite, but with heavyweight databases. But when I want to make fast confirmed writes to any storage, I should implement commit log and will crunch data to some better structure assynchronously
181 2010-12-18 01:10:09 <slush_cz> helmut: As every smart database software does
182 2010-12-18 01:10:21 <da2ce7> lol, I expect that would be the worst type of announcement! maybe announce "Thankyou for all the people that have help me test this service while it was free, I am now going to take a cut of 1BTC from every block as compensation for running the service"
183 2010-12-18 01:10:46 <slush_cz> da2ce7: It was JOKE :-D
184 2010-12-18 01:11:39 <helmut> slush_cz: I just set it up to commit every ten seconds. now it is entirely cpu bound.
185 2010-12-18 01:12:14 * da2ce7 embarrassed about not detecting sarcasm over irc
186 2010-12-18 01:14:20 <helmut> there should be a portable(!) file format for exchanging block chains via other means than network.
187 2010-12-18 01:14:25 <helmut> any ideas?
188 2010-12-18 01:14:29 <slush_cz> da2ce7: But I see you are not mining in pool...
189 2010-12-18 01:14:55 <da2ce7> slush, we discoverd that my connection was too unreliable.
190 2010-12-18 01:15:12 <slush_cz> da2ce7: ah, australia, right? Too many people around
191 2010-12-18 01:15:47 <da2ce7> yep, I'm waiting for the proxy, I'm going to get my brother to mine on your service, has he has a much more reliable connection.
192 2010-12-18 01:15:57 <da2ce7> *as he
193 2010-12-18 01:16:11 <slush_cz> great. And I'm chatting on irc instead of programming
194 2010-12-18 01:16:45 <slush_cz> but today service restart was mainly because of proxy. There is already API for it.
195 2010-12-18 01:16:55 <da2ce7> Back to Work! and Beyond!
196 2010-12-18 01:17:22 <slush_cz> helmut: Is the speed main issue now? I keep rule 1) get it working 2) optimize
197 2010-12-18 01:17:29 <slush_cz> This is the right what I'm doing with pool
198 2010-12-18 01:17:53 <slush_cz> Naturally I'm perfectionist, but in this attitude I will never release anything.
199 2010-12-18 01:17:54 <helmut> slush_cz: I don't have all day waiting for it.
200 2010-12-18 01:17:59 <slush_cz> World is not perfect
201 2010-12-18 01:18:15 <helmut> slush_cz: my rule is similar but different 1) get it working, 2) when speed is annoying, optimize.
202 2010-12-18 01:18:16 <slush_cz> helmut: Well, it is SO slow?
203 2010-12-18 01:18:38 <helmut> after my last restart, I am still waiting for it to complete the block chain check.
204 2010-12-18 01:18:46 ColonelPanic2 has joined
205 2010-12-18 01:18:47 <helmut> for only 1/8 of the total chain
206 2010-12-18 01:19:00 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
207 2010-12-18 01:19:07 <slush_cz> hm, interesting. How much data it is?
208 2010-12-18 01:19:19 <slush_cz> I think 100.000 data blocks should not be so slow!
209 2010-12-18 01:19:42 <helmut> uhh. finished. now downloading again
210 2010-12-18 01:19:47 <helmut> I reached like block 22k now
211 2010-12-18 01:20:37 <slush_cz> how large is one block?
212 2010-12-18 01:20:41 <jgarzik> helmut: if you do not have a wallet, you can download the blk*.dat databases from http://yyz.us/bitcoin/block-db-94000.tar.bz2
213 2010-12-18 01:21:00 <jgarzik> slush_cz: see rightmost 'Size' column at http://blockexplorer.com/
214 2010-12-18 01:21:03 <helmut> downloading + checking + inserting seems to be faster than checking the chain from sql...
215 2010-12-18 01:21:11 <helmut> jgarzik: could you remind me about the meaning of portable again?
216 2010-12-18 01:21:18 <jgarzik> helmut: ?
217 2010-12-18 01:21:21 <slush_cz> wow, somebody donated me again. Thanks!
218 2010-12-18 01:21:33 <jgarzik> helmut: those files work on 32-bit, 64-bit, linux, windows
219 2010-12-18 01:21:47 <helmut> jgarzik: uh. ok. and where is a data spec? ;-)
220 2010-12-18 01:22:18 <jgarzik> just suggesting a way to speed your download, not solve all the world's ills.
221 2010-12-18 01:22:34 <helmut> jgarzik: I download from localhost
222 2010-12-18 01:23:08 <helmut> jgarzik: and without a spec your file is completely useless.
223 2010-12-18 01:23:12 <slush_cz> helmut: Don't tell me you are crunching 22 MB of data more than two minute??
224 2010-12-18 01:23:28 <slush_cz> helmut: I'm talking about raw disc performance
225 2010-12-18 01:23:29 <helmut> slush_cz: did I mention performance to be suboptimal?
226 2010-12-18 01:24:05 <jgarzik> helmut: huh? for users wishing to get bitcoin running without a length initial block download, they simply copy those two files into their data directory. several others have found it quite useful.
227 2010-12-18 01:24:37 <slush_cz> jgarzik: Thanks for link
228 2010-12-18 01:24:56 <helmut> jgarzik: well I am not using the official bitcoin client.
229 2010-12-18 01:25:00 <Kiba> yo
230 2010-12-18 01:25:09 <Kiba> anybody expert with mybitcoin toolkit thingy?
231 2010-12-18 01:25:25 <slush_cz> helmut: You told me disk access (with sqllite) is too slow and how it should be faster, right?
232 2010-12-18 01:25:48 <helmut> slush_cz: well with "commit every 10 seconds" it's cpu bound now
233 2010-12-18 01:25:58 <slush_cz> oh, right
234 2010-12-18 01:26:13 <slush_cz> sorry, my language skills are often on the edge O:-)
235 2010-12-18 01:28:30 PeterCooperJr has joined
236 2010-12-18 01:29:44 <jgarzik> Kiba: ignore the toolkit. it just uses HTML forms. you can do HTML forms, right?
237 2010-12-18 01:30:10 <Kiba> yes, I already done that
238 2010-12-18 01:30:20 <Kiba> my question is mainly how can I secure it...
239 2010-12-18 01:30:41 <Kiba> www.soulplaying.com/notify will give user 30 more days :O
240 2010-12-18 01:30:58 <Kiba> maybe I should ask the ruby on rails folk instead
241 2010-12-18 01:31:34 <Kiba> does mybitcoin POST data?
242 2010-12-18 01:31:39 <Kiba> some kind of data?
243 2010-12-18 01:31:44 <Kiba> to verify it
244 2010-12-18 01:32:10 <jgarzik> Kiba: the status URL specifies a URL on -your- server, to which mybitcoin will POST (or GET) form data describing the approved transaction.
245 2010-12-18 01:32:22 <Kiba> ah, I dind't know
246 2010-12-18 01:32:27 <xelister> Kiba: you want to add list-style:none outside none; to the menu's css
247 2010-12-18 01:32:29 * Kiba checks the form builder
248 2010-12-18 01:32:43 <Kiba> really, that's showing up still?
249 2010-12-18 01:32:48 <xelister> yeap, dots
250 2010-12-18 01:33:33 <Kiba> I have in ul { list-style: none; }
251 2010-12-18 01:33:44 <Kiba> hmm
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257 2010-12-18 01:34:54 <Kiba> uh oh
258 2010-12-18 01:34:55 <xelister> no, you have
259 2010-12-18 01:34:56 <Kiba> huge problem
260 2010-12-18 01:34:57 * Kiba goes
261 2010-12-18 01:35:17 <xelister> need ul#navbar or smth probably. the id is on the <ul>, not above it
262 2010-12-18 01:44:32 <genjix> hey Kiba
263 2010-12-18 01:44:42 <genjix> just a small suggestion about writing
264 2010-12-18 01:44:54 <Kiba> yay!
265 2010-12-18 01:44:57 <Kiba> delete works!
266 2010-12-18 01:45:07 <Kiba> genjix: subject verb agreement?
267 2010-12-18 01:45:18 <genjix> if you're on a page about bitcoin then saying "bitcoin clients" is redundant. "client" is sufficient.
268 2010-12-18 01:45:30 <dissected> quit
269 2010-12-18 01:45:34 <genjix> (extra words just make text harder to read)
270 2010-12-18 01:45:42 <dissected> n/m
271 2010-12-18 01:45:46 <genjix> i mean from the wiki :p
272 2010-12-18 01:46:27 <genjix> just saw that you have lots of sentences where you add extra words when the meaning is clear
273 2010-12-18 01:46:35 <genjix> (not criticising, just offering a tip)
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277 2010-12-18 01:57:20 <helmut> is a block referencing strange/bogous/broken/whatever transactions to be considered valid?
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281 2010-12-18 02:00:10 <slush_cz> wow, block found!
282 2010-12-18 02:00:31 <slush_cz> !newpool
283 2010-12-18 02:00:55 <xulrunner> Hum
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289 2010-12-18 02:10:06 <helmut> slush_cz: I really think that most of the performance hit stems from sqlite3 now
290 2010-12-18 02:10:11 <helmut> slush_cz: even for selects
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292 2010-12-18 02:13:35 <slush_cz> helmut: It is possible. sqllite is general purpose storage and you need only subset of data. But writing own serializing and searching is imho overhead in this stage. If you have good interface, it would be easy to switch to something better later
293 2010-12-18 02:13:47 <slush_cz> ...subset of functions... sorry
294 2010-12-18 02:15:27 <helmut> it *was* easy to switch to bsddb
295 2010-12-18 02:15:34 <helmut> and it is *way* faster.
296 2010-12-18 02:16:32 <slush_cz> sorry, don't have any experiences with
297 2010-12-18 02:18:22 <helmut> well it's now io bound again, but I did 1/3 of the block space in one minute from scratch now.
298 2010-12-18 02:21:42 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
299 2010-12-18 02:26:23 <helmut> update process just reached 000000000003DC99DC176896AE4F25C02C6A0E039B430DFE5D0D5120E4C1C6C6 :-)
300 2010-12-18 02:40:57 * helmut wonders what bnFalse is for.
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303 2010-12-18 02:49:36 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
304 2010-12-18 02:49:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98140 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 643 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 19 hours, 55 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14282.53719530
305 2010-12-18 02:52:14 <Kiba> jgarzik: maybe you're willing to help us document what the SGI toolkit do. I didn't even know there's this status thing...
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365 2010-12-18 07:33:21 <mizerydearia> Is anyone available and interest in proofreading and possibly offering helpful revisions to a letter I have prepared?
366 2010-12-18 07:33:33 <mizerydearia> s/interest/interested/ <-- an example of a revision
367 2010-12-18 07:33:35 glassresistor has joined
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369 2010-12-18 07:34:50 <MT`AwAy> mizerydearia: a letter for what?
370 2010-12-18 07:35:14 <mizerydearia> MT`AwAy, A letter that I will send to many hundreds of restaurants in the pizza industry
371 2010-12-18 07:36:02 <MT`AwAy> to ask them to adopt bitcoins ?
372 2010-12-18 07:36:28 glassresistor has joined
373 2010-12-18 07:36:40 <mizerydearia> MT`AwAy, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2305.new#new
374 2010-12-18 07:37:00 Bonham has joined
375 2010-12-18 07:37:45 <MT`AwAy> :p
376 2010-12-18 07:38:14 <MT`AwAy> you could first implement pizza delivery that have an API
377 2010-12-18 07:38:17 <mizerydearia> I would like it to appear more professionally written.
378 2010-12-18 07:38:25 <mizerydearia> humm
379 2010-12-18 07:38:40 <mizerydearia> The site will offer both delivery options and take-out
380 2010-12-18 07:38:52 <mizerydearia> Some restaurants do not deliver.
381 2010-12-18 07:40:02 <doublec> I think the first paragraph should talk less about bitcoins and more about the benefit to the pizza shop owner
382 2010-12-18 07:40:23 <doublec> Many will read the first paragraph and stop
383 2010-12-18 07:40:31 <mizerydearia> true
384 2010-12-18 07:40:39 <doublec> I wouldn't use the word 'crypto-currency'
385 2010-12-18 07:40:47 <doublec> I just say a new Internet currency called Bitcoin
386 2010-12-18 07:40:49 <mizerydearia> ^_^
387 2010-12-18 07:41:08 <doublec> I wouldn't even say 'new'
388 2010-12-18 07:41:12 <mizerydearia> mm
389 2010-12-18 07:41:14 <doublec> Just 'an Internet currency'
390 2010-12-18 07:41:23 <mizerydearia> fixed
391 2010-12-18 07:42:19 <doublec> Immediately after the first sentence I'd give the benefit to the pizza owner
392 2010-12-18 07:42:25 <mizerydearia> Shall I remove "In this way the website I am developing will provide the ability to buy pizzas with Bitcoins, which will help the currently small Bitcoin community to have another way to spend their Bitcoins." entirely or change it to something else?
393 2010-12-18 07:43:15 <doublec> yes
394 2010-12-18 07:43:18 <doublec> remove it entirely
395 2010-12-18 07:43:28 <doublec> They don't care about benefits to the bitcoin community
396 2010-12-18 07:43:44 <doublec> and hearing that it's small won't help them make a positive decision
397 2010-12-18 07:43:50 <mizerydearia> true
398 2010-12-18 07:44:11 <mizerydearia> "I look forward to encouraging additional users to become customers at various pizza restaurants around the world by making the web site fun and entertaining to use." seems funny
399 2010-12-18 07:44:37 Azetab has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds)
400 2010-12-18 07:45:05 <doublec> Maybe a second sentence something like: "This service will provide participating pizza restaurants with additional customers looking for new ways to use their bitcoins."
401 2010-12-18 07:46:23 <mizerydearia> thanks "participating pizza restaurants" is good phrase.
402 2010-12-18 07:47:39 <doublec> The sentence about "inputting all of this data" being timely sounds like you're trying to get the pizza restaurant to do all the work
403 2010-12-18 07:47:50 <doublec> Instead, make it sound like a benefit to them
404 2010-12-18 07:47:51 <doublec> eg
405 2010-12-18 07:48:50 <doublec> "To enure that the information held about your restaurant is up to date I will provide you with the ability to enter available food data and prices and keep it up to date."
406 2010-12-18 07:48:56 <doublec> s/enure/ensure
407 2010-12-18 07:50:00 <glassresistor> I was thinking of the viability of keeping a night outs worth of btc say 500 and the merchants "swipe" the stick then copy the wallet and send the funds to another local address
408 2010-12-18 07:50:01 <doublec> will this be a free service for the restaurants? If so you should mention that.
409 2010-12-18 07:50:35 <doublec> "additionally a variety of other food-related informations." <-- 'information', not 'informations'
410 2010-12-18 07:50:42 grondilu has joined
411 2010-12-18 07:51:00 <grondilu> Is there a maximum number of transactions per block ?
412 2010-12-18 07:51:42 <doublec> This is a bit hard to read: "and once the pizza order request is fulfilled and confirmed by the originating user, the paying user will receive the Bitcoins offered by the originating user. "
413 2010-12-18 07:51:58 <glassresistor> It would require some software to pull X btc out of your wallet as r
414 2010-12-18 07:53:03 <glassresistor> and insert btc into a temporary db to be transg
415 2010-12-18 07:53:14 <glassresistor> transfer
416 2010-12-18 07:54:08 <glassresistor> to both validate the keys and avoid double spending
417 2010-12-18 07:54:49 <doublec> maybe: "Other users can then agree to fulfill that user's pizza order request by paying your restaurant directly in your own currency. You will not be involved in the actual bitcoin transaction as that will be negotiated by the users on the site."
418 2010-12-18 07:54:52 <doublec> something like that
419 2010-12-18 07:55:13 <doublec> it's still a bit wordy
420 2010-12-18 07:55:38 <glassresistor> I meant keep the 500 btc on a USB
421 2010-12-18 07:56:16 <glassresistor> This would mean the spender doesn't need net access
422 2010-12-18 07:56:26 <doublec> currently there's no way to 'import' from another wallet
423 2010-12-18 07:56:29 <glassresistor> But merchant would
424 2010-12-18 07:56:39 <doublec> otherwise the idea is good
425 2010-12-18 07:57:29 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
426 2010-12-18 07:57:44 <glassresistor> Your wallet is just a list of hashes correct? In berkleuc
427 2010-12-18 07:57:50 <glassresistor> db
428 2010-12-18 07:58:31 <glassresistor> I assume it has apis one could use
429 2010-12-18 07:58:46 <doublec> I don't know
430 2010-12-18 07:58:56 * jgarzik files bug report with upstream gcc.gnu.org and Fedora gcc pkg, for major SHA256-4way performance regression
431 2010-12-18 07:59:01 <doublec> my knowledge of the internals of the software is pretty much zero
432 2010-12-18 07:59:09 <glassresistor> How many sha256 hashes make one btc
433 2010-12-18 07:59:18 <doublec> jgarzik, what is the regression?
434 2010-12-18 08:00:17 <glassresistor> doublec: In fairly sure that's how it works
435 2010-12-18 08:00:49 <glassresistor> Only thing is the vendor could take all the ones
436 2010-12-18 08:01:01 <glassresistor> Stored on the USB
437 2010-12-18 08:01:30 <glassresistor> But cards have the same problem
438 2010-12-18 08:01:45 <jgarzik> 1855.82 khash/sec (gcc 4.4.x) down to 1390 khash/sec (gcc 4.5.x)
439 2010-12-18 08:01:49 <jgarzik> doublec: ^^^ performance
440 2010-12-18 08:01:55 <doublec> wow, big difference
441 2010-12-18 08:02:01 <doublec> are you using sse intrinsics?
442 2010-12-18 08:02:11 <glassresistor> jgarzik: Sucks
443 2010-12-18 08:02:13 <jgarzik> doublec: yes. this is tcatm's 4way sha
444 2010-12-18 08:02:53 * jgarzik will have to maintain a Fedora 13 VM ad infinitum, it seems, just to build cpuminer on Win32
445 2010-12-18 08:03:05 <jgarzik> oh well. that's what virtual machines are for.
446 2010-12-18 08:03:46 <glassresistor> Youll probably get similar performance loss
447 2010-12-18 08:03:58 <glassresistor> With the vm
448 2010-12-18 08:04:08 <jgarzik> glassresistor: the vm is a build platform
449 2010-12-18 08:04:41 <glassresistor> Ah
450 2010-12-18 08:04:51 <glassresistor> O
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456 2010-12-18 08:16:19 <gibbz> i like cash cow
457 2010-12-18 08:18:15 jgarzik has quit (Quit: Client exiting)
458 2010-12-18 08:18:44 <doublec> I hope you're winning!
459 2010-12-18 08:19:14 <gibbz> i was then i tried to transfer out and 17 disapeared :(
460 2010-12-18 08:19:46 <doublec> that's a bit odd
461 2010-12-18 08:20:01 <doublec> you should ask joe_1. He runs cash cow.
462 2010-12-18 08:20:58 <gibbz> i think it was just bad error handling, i dunno
463 2010-12-18 08:22:59 <mizerydearia> doublec, Thanks for the suggestions above. I agree that my original rough draft was quite a beast. How does it look now?
464 2010-12-18 08:23:01 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2305.msg31282#msg31282
465 2010-12-18 08:23:56 <doublec> mizerydearia, nice! I like it.
466 2010-12-18 08:24:52 <mizerydearia> yay, thanks
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468 2010-12-18 08:36:53 <OneFixt> A question for the people familiar with GPU mining on Radeon - what's the best version of OpenCL to use?
469 2010-12-18 08:37:23 <OneFixt> Or rather, Stream SDK: 2.1, 2.3?
470 2010-12-18 08:38:45 <OneFixt> nvm, got the answer
471 2010-12-18 08:54:16 <slush_cz> Oh, mizerydearia, you are here. I just post my comments to forum.
472 2010-12-18 08:54:26 * mizerydearia waves
473 2010-12-18 08:54:30 <mizerydearia> I noticed them
474 2010-12-18 08:54:30 <slush_cz> I agree current version is far better than original, but I think it is not enough
475 2010-12-18 08:54:37 <mizerydearia> I agree also
476 2010-12-18 08:54:41 <mizerydearia> I'm working on a revision.
477 2010-12-18 08:54:54 <slush_cz> Fuck out all the things about bitcoin. We are both interested in bitcoins too much, but they dont care
478 2010-12-18 08:54:55 <mizerydearia> Also, if you are up for it, I could use some assistance in a rewritten revision.
479 2010-12-18 08:55:24 <mizerydearia> Assistance in that you provide a draft that I can possibly use or take from.
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483 2010-12-18 08:57:27 <slush_cz> I have big problems with language, you see :). I can write down points, but it is what I already did in forum post.
484 2010-12-18 08:57:27 <slush_cz> 1. Very short introduction about service
485 2010-12-18 08:57:28 <slush_cz> 2. How it will improve their business
486 2010-12-18 08:57:28 <slush_cz> 3. Extremely short notice about payment processing, main concern is only about advantages (security, ...)
487 2010-12-18 08:57:28 <slush_cz> 4. What they should NOW (and it should be very easy to do also for non-geeks ;) )
488 2010-12-18 08:57:56 <mizerydearia> I agree. I am not too fond of my language as well.
489 2010-12-18 08:58:16 <slush_cz> mizerydearia: Are you a native English speaker?
490 2010-12-18 08:58:47 <mizerydearia> slush_cz, Yes. My English native is language very poor for it
491 2010-12-18 08:59:02 <slush_cz> :-D
492 2010-12-18 08:59:52 <mizerydearia> However, my communication and written skills are not so professional.
493 2010-12-18 09:00:46 Myckel has joined
494 2010-12-18 09:02:05 <mizerydearia> hiya Myckel
495 2010-12-18 09:03:11 <slush_cz> I hope my comments helped a little. And I'm going to sleep again ;)
496 2010-12-18 09:04:12 Abhish has joined
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498 2010-12-18 09:04:41 <mizerydearia> They did. I'm working on a new revision.
499 2010-12-18 09:05:23 <mizerydearia> mm, I should sleep too.
500 2010-12-18 09:06:13 <Myckel> hi mizerydearia
501 2010-12-18 09:24:10 <hundfred> hi, i would like to test my fesh-installed bitcoin client
502 2010-12-18 09:24:24 <hundfred> is there anybody that could send me a coin?
503 2010-12-18 09:25:26 <Myckel> hundfred, https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
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514 2010-12-18 10:06:11 <slush_cz> !newpool
515 2010-12-18 10:06:45 <Keefe> ;;bc,estimate
516 2010-12-18 10:06:45 <gribble> 14236.80292764
517 2010-12-18 10:08:23 <slush_cz> !newpool
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523 2010-12-18 10:18:47 * Myckel mumbles "let it snow, let it snow, let it snow..."
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534 2010-12-18 10:47:51 <omglolbbq> whats with bitcoin.cz
535 2010-12-18 10:47:55 <omglolbbq> can't find server
536 2010-12-18 10:56:04 Toadyonps3 has joined
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538 2010-12-18 11:01:22 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: Working well. I'm looking on console and there is plenty of traffic
539 2010-12-18 11:01:51 <omglolbbq> yes it seems to work now, maybe it was my connection
540 2010-12-18 11:02:52 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: There was restart before ~2 hours
541 2010-12-18 11:03:01 <slush_cz> outage under second
542 2010-12-18 11:04:22 <[Noodles]> doesnt really matter if miners crash :/
543 2010-12-18 11:05:07 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: I know. Not my fault, nothing I can fix
544 2010-12-18 11:05:20 <[Noodles]> yeah, i know, sucks anyway ^.^
545 2010-12-18 11:05:26 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: Tell miner author, PLEASE. Until then, nothing will be better
546 2010-12-18 11:05:52 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: In fact, it is pretty easy to improve miners to be stable. But authors didn't expect it will use unstable connection to bitcoind
547 2010-12-18 11:05:58 <[Noodles]> well, they never crash on local getwork-servers
548 2010-12-18 11:06:07 <sethsethseth_> how do i get my shortcut to restart if it quits cause of the server
549 2010-12-18 11:06:07 <[Noodles]> only on yours
550 2010-12-18 11:06:13 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: Yes, because it is localhost
551 2010-12-18 11:07:04 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: I have 20 requests per second and I really need to restart it sometimes. I'm doing my best to work 24/7/
552 2010-12-18 11:07:11 <[Noodles]> did i mention that DHL sucks big?
553 2010-12-18 11:07:18 <sethsethseth_> i want teh miner to fire up again if teh server restarts
554 2010-12-18 11:07:24 <RichardG> !pool
555 2010-12-18 11:07:26 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: Sorry, this is still beta software. I'm actively developing it
556 2010-12-18 11:07:35 <slush_cz> sethsethseth_: TELL AUTHORS
557 2010-12-18 11:07:36 <slush_cz> PLEASE
558 2010-12-18 11:07:44 RG has joined
559 2010-12-18 11:07:45 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!pool
560 2010-12-18 11:07:46 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 58secs ago): 60 clients, 90777 khash/s, next block est. 6days 17hrs 1min 25secs
561 2010-12-18 11:07:47 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
562 2010-12-18 11:07:49 <RichardG> !newpool
563 2010-12-18 11:08:05 RG has joined
564 2010-12-18 11:08:05 <RG> gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|!newpool
565 2010-12-18 11:08:06 <RichardG> New pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 18/Dec/2010 03:17:33, 38 workers, 18126 shares contributed, 2453299 khash/s
566 2010-12-18 11:08:07 RG has quit (gettinginfo!~tingle@187.15.33.215|Client Quit)
567 2010-12-18 11:08:33 <slush_cz> you can hurdle here, but it will improve absolutely nothing, sorry
568 2010-12-18 11:08:37 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
569 2010-12-18 11:09:53 <slush_cz> send miner's authors your tracebacks and so
570 2010-12-18 11:11:20 <slush_cz> hurdle -> howl, sorry
571 2010-12-18 11:13:38 Daviey has joined
572 2010-12-18 11:17:23 <slush_cz> btw three restars of application server per day is > 99.996 % availability. Tell me which commercial site has it. Sorry, I'm little upset now, because users tell me every hour this, but bugs are not on my side.
573 2010-12-18 11:22:59 <sethsethseth_> no its totally fine to restart it, i just need my client to reconnect instead of quitting....
574 2010-12-18 11:23:28 <sethsethseth_> im trying to think of some way to rig it so it would do that
575 2010-12-18 11:25:09 RichardG has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
576 2010-12-18 11:31:01 RichardG has joined
577 2010-12-18 11:31:43 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
578 2010-12-18 11:31:44 Grantt has joined
579 2010-12-18 11:37:38 <slush_cz> sethsethseth_: Yes, write author
580 2010-12-18 11:38:34 <slush_cz> sethsethseth_: It is probably few-line bugfix
581 2010-12-18 11:41:59 craiova has joined
582 2010-12-18 11:42:38 <craiova> hi. I want to add a like in my .html website that sais "1 BTC = x USD". how can i do that? what's the code for that?
583 2010-12-18 11:43:03 <doublec> craiova, there's no constant value for 'x'
584 2010-12-18 11:43:11 <doublec> craiova, it depends on what market you want to use
585 2010-12-18 11:43:21 <slush_cz> sethsethseth_: Copy your traceback/error, go to forum, write new private message to jgarzik, momchil or Diablo, paste error and press Enter. This is the best think everybody can do
586 2010-12-18 11:43:25 <doublec> craiova, eg. mtgox? some other?
587 2010-12-18 11:43:48 <doublec> craiova, if you see http://bitcoinwatch.com/ you'll see different markets and their USD price
588 2010-12-18 11:44:33 <craiova> doublec: mtgox
589 2010-12-18 11:44:33 <doublec> craiova, you could use mtgox's price and get the JSON values from their ticker: http://mtgox.com/code/ticker.php
590 2010-12-18 11:44:51 <craiova> doublec: yea, but i don't know how to use json
591 2010-12-18 11:45:37 <doublec> craiova, you can't do it from just .html. You'll have to do it from some server side framework
592 2010-12-18 11:46:07 <craiova> oh, then i'll use some bash
593 2010-12-18 11:46:37 <craiova> thank you
594 2010-12-18 11:46:41 <doublec> np
595 2010-12-18 11:50:15 CuriusDentatus has joined
596 2010-12-18 11:51:45 <helmut> could someone explain *why* transactions are made using forth-like scripts? what is the benefit of this expressiveness?
597 2010-12-18 11:52:38 <RichardG> bitcoin watch gives data on zipped xml/json?
598 2010-12-18 11:52:43 <RichardG> how inconvenient >_<
599 2010-12-18 11:53:04 <ArtForzZz> I think it's supposed to add extensibility
600 2010-12-18 11:53:08 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
601 2010-12-18 11:55:05 <RichardG> okay, found an unzipping DLL designed for mIRC
602 2010-12-18 11:55:05 <ArtForz> for example you could create a txout that requires a txin signed by 2 keypairs
603 2010-12-18 11:56:06 <bd_> It seems like that could be done with a secret sharing approach
604 2010-12-18 11:56:42 <bd_> ah, but that would be vulnerable to revocation...
605 2010-12-18 11:56:53 <genjix> why would you zip a JSON :D
606 2010-12-18 11:57:16 <RichardG> bot is being transferred to another folder other than my desktop, please stand by
607 2010-12-18 11:58:06 <RichardG> done
608 2010-12-18 11:59:39 <ArtForz> imo it's still missing a few operators
609 2010-12-18 12:01:38 <ArtForz> or maybe not
610 2010-12-18 12:02:13 <helmut> could you also tell me what OP_CHECKSIG does precisely? in the simplest (not recommended) form it goes like scriptpubkey=[pubkey, OP_CHECKSIG] and scriptsig=[signature]. however I do not yet understand what is signed.
611 2010-12-18 12:02:36 akem has joined
612 2010-12-18 12:02:36 akem has quit (Changing host)
613 2010-12-18 12:02:36 akem has joined
614 2010-12-18 12:02:45 <helmut> (well not recommended as in if you fetch a key from an ip)
615 2010-12-18 12:03:21 <ArtForz> thats also the standard form for spending a coinbase txout
616 2010-12-18 12:04:27 cdecker has joined
617 2010-12-18 12:04:48 <ArtForz> iirc what's signed is the txout script and the txin script up to signature
618 2010-12-18 12:05:04 <ArtForz> well, the hash of that
619 2010-12-18 12:05:11 <helmut> thanks
620 2010-12-18 12:05:24 <helmut> sounds like tx verification is a tough job
621 2010-12-18 12:05:36 <ArtForz> well, not really
622 2010-12-18 12:05:50 <ArtForz> but yeah, reimplementing it is a PITA
623 2010-12-18 12:06:08 <helmut> well until now I managed to write a client that downloads and verifies a block chain
624 2010-12-18 12:06:18 <helmut> excluding merkle
625 2010-12-18 12:07:33 <ArtForz> merkle tree is easy
626 2010-12-18 12:07:37 <helmut> yes.
627 2010-12-18 12:07:52 <helmut> I know you did
628 2010-12-18 12:11:41 Toadyonps3 has quit (Quit: So if a tree falls on Bill Gates in the forest,would anyone really care?)
629 2010-12-18 12:17:33 Shadowolf has joined
630 2010-12-18 12:19:58 Abhish has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
631 2010-12-18 12:21:46 Shadowolf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
632 2010-12-18 12:22:00 Abhish has joined
633 2010-12-18 12:23:20 <cdecker> ;;bc,blocks
634 2010-12-18 12:23:21 <gribble> 98195
635 2010-12-18 12:23:49 cdecker has quit (Quit: Page closed)
636 2010-12-18 12:26:14 CuriusDentatus has left ()
637 2010-12-18 12:37:06 * MT`AwAy is going to release some bitcoin node stats :D
638 2010-12-18 12:38:00 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
639 2010-12-18 12:38:17 jackmcbarn has joined
640 2010-12-18 12:39:43 mtgox has joined
641 2010-12-18 12:42:09 <MT`AwAy> ok
642 2010-12-18 12:42:22 <MT`AwAy> http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2405/bitcoinnodes.png <- most of the nodes are not accepting connections from outside (status "down")
643 2010-12-18 13:03:50 Satmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
644 2010-12-18 13:04:12 <genjix> MT`AwAy: fyi jgarzik owns pastecoin.com (i think)
645 2010-12-18 13:05:00 Satmaster has joined
646 2010-12-18 13:05:18 <genjix> http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/wiki/ <- did you see 'Latest forum posts' on the right? We can do the same for Bitcoin if SWF has an API. I couldn't find one for it though.
647 2010-12-18 13:05:22 <MT`AwAy> genjix: did I get 35% ?
648 2010-12-18 13:05:34 <genjix> he hasnt sent me the money yet
649 2010-12-18 13:05:36 <MT`AwAy> genjix: we don't need that
650 2010-12-18 13:05:47 <genjix> ok
651 2010-12-18 13:07:13 <MT`AwAy> I'm playing around on the bitcoin P2P network to make a list of nodes
652 2010-12-18 13:07:25 <MT`AwAy> and have infos such as for how long the node has been up
653 2010-12-18 13:07:43 <[Noodles]> any known probs with new CCC/SDK on win7?
654 2010-12-18 13:07:43 <MT`AwAy> so I can automatically generate better initial node list
655 2010-12-18 13:07:51 <MT`AwAy> http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8799/bitcoinupnodes.png
656 2010-12-18 13:11:51 <Grantt> [Noodles]: cat 10.12 / sdk 2.3 ? No 'probs' but it's slower in normal mining, with --vectors it gives speed of almost sdk 2.1 without vectors on my gpu
657 2010-12-18 13:15:24 DerrikeG has joined
658 2010-12-18 13:17:31 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: I presume you operate the PMS. User registration keeps throwing unhandled exceptions and won't let me log into those accounts, attempting to register over them says that the name is occupied.
659 2010-12-18 13:18:12 <helmut> ArtForz: indeed. merkle trees (once understood) are easy.
660 2010-12-18 13:19:10 <helmut> ArtForz: nice python recipe: y = iter(l); l = [doublehash(a+b) for a, b in zip(y)]
661 2010-12-18 13:19:18 <helmut> err zip(y, y)
662 2010-12-18 13:19:23 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Oh, thanks, I will take a look
663 2010-12-18 13:20:13 <ArtForz> that seems to be missing something
664 2010-12-18 13:21:03 <helmut> ArtForz: you mean the loop or handling odd lengths?
665 2010-12-18 13:21:11 <ArtForz> odd lengths
666 2010-12-18 13:21:33 <helmut> yes.
667 2010-12-18 13:21:36 <ArtForz> bitcoin effectively duplicates last item in l to make a balanced tree
668 2010-12-18 13:22:01 <helmut> I know. I already verify merkle successfully.
669 2010-12-18 13:22:20 <ArtForz> btw, have you figured out WHY it's done that way?
670 2010-12-18 13:22:55 <helmut> I have an idea, but no implementation uses this "WHY".
671 2010-12-18 13:23:17 <helmut> if you change one entry in the list or add an entry, you only need to compute log(length) hashes.
672 2010-12-18 13:23:41 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: I activated your account 'DerrikeG'
673 2010-12-18 13:23:50 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: There is problem with mailing server
674 2010-12-18 13:23:57 <DerrikeG> Thank you, feel free to delete the other ones.
675 2010-12-18 13:24:10 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Oh, wait a moment
676 2010-12-18 13:24:46 <ArtForz> hmmm... that should be the same with balanced and unbalanced trees
677 2010-12-18 13:24:55 <ArtForz> but adding an entry to a balanced tree is easier
678 2010-12-18 13:25:09 <helmut> well it is more a theoretical result.
679 2010-12-18 13:25:32 <helmut> in practise hashing the concatenation of all tx hashes should be faster than computing log(length) hashes.
680 2010-12-18 13:26:05 <ArtForz> yup
681 2010-12-18 13:26:31 <helmut> and btw. bitcoin implementation does not exploit the log(length) optimization technique.
682 2010-12-18 13:26:37 <ArtForz> I know
683 2010-12-18 13:26:38 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Has weird problem with console.
684 2010-12-18 13:26:43 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Done, please login
685 2010-12-18 13:27:20 <helmut> next thing is verifying transactions I think
686 2010-12-18 13:27:51 <helmut> and then I need some btc to do transactions myself.
687 2010-12-18 13:28:16 <ArtForz> well, hash tree is O(log n) for insertions and removals, chained hash is O(1) for insertions and O(n) for removals
688 2010-12-18 13:28:25 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: Login worked, should I be concerned with any field that isn't my Wallet ID and send treshold (should be threshold)?
689 2010-12-18 13:29:30 <ArtForz> and agreed, current impl recomputes the whole thing in several places
690 2010-12-18 13:29:38 <helmut> ArtForz: am I correct that I will need a fast txhash -> tx lookup?
691 2010-12-18 13:29:43 <ArtForz> yep
692 2010-12-18 13:30:18 <helmut> I wonder whether I can transfer money by tomorrow
693 2010-12-18 13:30:20 <ArtForz> to verify a block you need to verify contained transactions, and for that yxou have to find the tx the txins are referring to by hash
694 2010-12-18 13:31:19 <helmut> if I could that would be the most complete non-uptsream implementation, right?
695 2010-12-18 13:31:44 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: You have to register own workers (miners) on profile page
696 2010-12-18 13:31:45 <ArtForz> luckily tx hashes make decent (if slightly large) primary keys ;)
697 2010-12-18 13:32:12 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: I know about typo in threshold, unfortunately it is quite difficult to repair :)). Long story...
698 2010-12-18 13:32:19 <helmut> slush_cz: could you explain why this registering is necessary?
699 2010-12-18 13:33:24 <helmut> slush_cz: I mean all a worker would have to do is compute hashes and mention a bca. there should simply be no need to register at all.
700 2010-12-18 13:33:29 <slush_cz> helmut: a) Standard getwork API has nothing like "wallet"
701 2010-12-18 13:33:29 <slush_cz> b) I need know about separate workers for optimizing PoW checks
702 2010-12-18 13:34:32 <helmut> b) you could identify sepearte workers by tcp connection? and a) bad implementation?
703 2010-12-18 13:34:58 <slush_cz> helmut: It is not persistent
704 2010-12-18 13:35:13 <slush_cz> helmut: Yes, bad implementation of bitcoin's getwork, you are right :)
705 2010-12-18 13:35:15 <helmut> well you can save the best hashes for the node.
706 2010-12-18 13:35:27 <slush_cz> helmut: I'm just wrapping accounting and checks over standard client
707 2010-12-18 13:35:35 <helmut> ughh
708 2010-12-18 13:35:54 <slush_cz> helmut: a) It works b) It is easy to maintain future releases of bitcoin
709 2010-12-18 13:37:40 <slush_cz> Don't understand your 'ughh'
710 2010-12-18 13:38:05 <DerrikeG> So I made baby's first miner attached to my account which is attached to my wallet. How do they work / do I need to put forward any additional effort / what am I doing
711 2010-12-18 13:38:15 <helmut> slush_cz: standard client sucks.
712 2010-12-18 13:38:42 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Follow instructions on miner's homepage.
713 2010-12-18 13:39:16 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: If you have created account and workers on site and you have correct login/password for worker, you have to download some miner and run it
714 2010-12-18 13:39:52 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Every miner have different parameters, but in general you have to enter URL to service (port 8332) and login/password for worker
715 2010-12-18 13:40:32 <slush_cz> helmut: Yes, but we are over 2Ghash now and server is in very good condition. So this is not an issue
716 2010-12-18 13:40:54 <slush_cz> Main issue are roundtrips / latencies and I'm working on
717 2010-12-18 13:41:37 <DerrikeG> Gotcha. I don't have a GPU (I'm pretty sure I'm integrated) and cpuminer threw me a json_rpc_call failed
718 2010-12-18 13:43:11 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: wrong parameters
719 2010-12-18 13:43:18 <slush_cz> post your commandline
720 2010-12-18 13:43:43 <slush_cz> btw many integrated cards already have gpu. Maybe it is poor, but better than nothing
721 2010-12-18 13:44:10 <slush_cz> I have 900 khash/s on my CPU (Intel Atom) and 2000khash/s on it's GPU (integrated nvidia)
722 2010-12-18 13:46:06 <DerrikeG> I didn't know I had to pass it anything, I anticipated a gui and all that. I don't know what I'm supposed to give it.
723 2010-12-18 13:47:26 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: No, unfortunately no miner have GUI
724 2010-12-18 13:47:45 <slush_cz> Run "cmd" and play in command line :)
725 2010-12-18 13:48:28 <slush_cz> cd "c;:\Program Files\CPU-miner\"
726 2010-12-18 13:48:47 <slush_cz> minerd.exe --help
727 2010-12-18 13:48:47 <slush_cz> will show you options
728 2010-12-18 13:49:15 <DerrikeG> Yeah. I was thrown off that there was a compiled windows version that didn't support the windows standard "/?".
729 2010-12-18 13:49:33 <slush_cz> minerd.exe --url http://mining.bitcoin.cz:8332 --userpass <workerlogin>:<password>
730 2010-12-18 13:49:37 <slush_cz> should work for you
731 2010-12-18 13:49:50 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: We are all linux hackers :-D
732 2010-12-18 13:50:27 <DerrikeG> I'm familiar with linux, just didn't expect that, I suppose :)
733 2010-12-18 13:50:42 <slush_cz> great, so you are at home now :)
734 2010-12-18 13:50:44 zerwas has left ("Keep on flowing")
735 2010-12-18 13:50:58 <DerrikeG> I'm on a quadcore, how many threads do you recommend I give it
736 2010-12-18 13:51:08 <slush_cz> core count
737 2010-12-18 13:51:10 <slush_cz> so 4
738 2010-12-18 13:51:20 <slush_cz> also play with algo parameter
739 2010-12-18 13:51:26 <slush_cz> it will improve performance a lot
740 2010-12-18 13:51:29 <[Noodles]> yay! my card finally arrived
741 2010-12-18 13:51:42 <slush_cz> [Noodles]: Hope you will attach it to pool :)
742 2010-12-18 13:51:58 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: How would I measure success with each algorithm?
743 2010-12-18 13:52:12 <slush_cz> hashrate. It will print out after few seconds
744 2010-12-18 13:52:12 <[Noodles]> just been 30hrs late, that's what they call express-delivery
745 2010-12-18 13:52:49 <Grantt> they propably mined with it at dhl, which is why its late, they waited for a block to fill ;)
746 2010-12-18 13:52:56 <[Noodles]> lol
747 2010-12-18 13:53:30 <slush_cz> yeah, they tested it for you already
748 2010-12-18 13:54:02 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: How much do you have?
749 2010-12-18 13:54:31 <DerrikeG> 677.87kh/s
750 2010-12-18 13:55:26 <DerrikeG> retrying with 4way, then the others
751 2010-12-18 13:57:46 <helmut> ArtForz: the only definition of opcode values is script.h, correct?
752 2010-12-18 13:59:29 <ArtForz> yup
753 2010-12-18 13:59:48 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: c: ~677.87kh/s, 4way: ~850.34kh/s, via: won't start, cryptopp: ~552.46kh/s
754 2010-12-18 14:02:07 <slush_cz> I guessed 4way will be the best
755 2010-12-18 14:02:25 <slush_cz> but it is not soo much at all. Which CPU?
756 2010-12-18 14:02:37 <helmut> uhh and numbers are pushed on stack in some binary representations
757 2010-12-18 14:04:24 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: AMD Phenom 9150e
758 2010-12-18 14:05:27 <slush_cz> Are all cores on 100% when running 4 threads?
759 2010-12-18 14:06:06 <slush_cz> and which graphic card? Are you sure there is no GPU?
760 2010-12-18 14:06:58 <DerrikeG> all cores maxed, granted I'm fiddling around in firefox and whatnot
761 2010-12-18 14:07:27 <DerrikeG> I'm going to set up the first listed GPU miner, too
762 2010-12-18 14:07:43 <slush_cz> ok
763 2010-12-18 14:08:06 <[Noodles]> should get a bit more, which cpu-miner version do you use? i get best results with 0.2.1, 4way on PhenomII X3 ~2400khash/s each core
764 2010-12-18 14:08:31 Zarutian has joined
765 2010-12-18 14:09:00 <DerrikeG> I'm using the latest windows build in the thread, each result is the max of each core. Normal bitcoin client mines at 3103 average.
766 2010-12-18 14:09:29 <DerrikeG> Which is now choking at a baby sized 28kh/s
767 2010-12-18 14:11:32 <[Noodles]> 850khash seems very slow, that's what my downclocked and undervolted 5000+ gets
768 2010-12-18 14:12:54 <DerrikeG> My computer may be malnourished.
769 2010-12-18 14:13:29 * MT`AwAy found 1574 running bitcoin nodes
770 2010-12-18 14:14:02 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: With open port or also passibe?
771 2010-12-18 14:14:06 <slush_cz> passive
772 2010-12-18 14:14:32 <MT`AwAy> about 26.6% of all the running bitcoin nodes are accepting incoming tcp connections
773 2010-12-18 14:15:23 <MT`AwAy> my list tries to include all the nodes running bitcoin on ipv4, accepting connections or not
774 2010-12-18 14:15:44 <MT`AwAy> then I check each node to see if it accept connections, and if it do, I collect more informations (version, nodes connected to that node, etc)
775 2010-12-18 14:23:51 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
776 2010-12-18 14:25:42 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: I don't quite catch how to tie m0mchil's GPU miner to your server
777 2010-12-18 14:25:46 <dsg> MT`AwAy: Interesting, is your dataset public?
778 2010-12-18 14:26:05 <dsg> (I know you haven't released your client yet :)
779 2010-12-18 14:26:44 <MT`AwAy> dsg: realtime exports of this data will be made available in json format
780 2010-12-18 14:26:51 <[Noodles]> DerrikeG: poclbm.exe --host=mining.bitcoin.cz --port=8332 --user=user.Worker --pass=urpass --device=X
781 2010-12-18 14:26:56 <slush_cz> poclbm.exe -u marekp.radeon1 --pass=**** -o mining.bitcoin.cz -p 8332 -d 1 -a 5 -w 128
782 2010-12-18 14:27:17 <MT`AwAy> dsg: (it's not related to my client, but I'll use it to have a nice initial pool of fallback nodes)
783 2010-12-18 14:27:32 <slush_cz> Oh, parameters after -p are optional, it is specific for my worker
784 2010-12-18 14:28:39 <dsg> MT`AwAy: Cool, I'll take a look when it's available :)
785 2010-12-18 14:28:41 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
786 2010-12-18 14:28:49 <MT`AwAy> dsg: for now I'm still harvesting data from clients
787 2010-12-18 14:29:04 <DerrikeG> It crashed.
788 2010-12-18 14:29:28 <DerrikeG> Dumped a python error.
789 2010-12-18 14:29:52 <DerrikeG> http://pastebin.com/ueR6ckmr
790 2010-12-18 14:30:15 [Noodles] has quit (Quit: have a nice day!)
791 2010-12-18 14:31:10 sgornick has joined
792 2010-12-18 14:31:31 <DerrikeG> (listing dependencies in the first post would be a good idea)
793 2010-12-18 14:32:07 <slush_cz> Maybe related with http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.320
794 2010-12-18 14:32:19 <slush_cz> There should be no dependencies
795 2010-12-18 14:32:47 <slush_cz> You just have to install graphics driver with OpenCL support
796 2010-12-18 14:32:56 <slush_cz> Firstly check your card type. It will be much faster
797 2010-12-18 14:33:21 <slush_cz> http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
798 2010-12-18 14:34:11 <MT`AwAy> WOW
799 2010-12-18 14:34:17 <MT`AwAy> there are still old clients running
800 2010-12-18 14:34:25 * MT`AwAy just found a client version "300"
801 2010-12-18 14:35:18 <ArtForz> *cue the sparta joke*
802 2010-12-18 14:35:34 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin 0.3.0
803 2010-12-18 14:35:55 <MT`AwAy> (I think)
804 2010-12-18 14:36:30 <ArtForz> yup
805 2010-12-18 14:38:00 <DerrikeG> My card doesn't support OpenCL so I guess I'm shafted.
806 2010-12-18 14:38:07 <MT`AwAy> looks like the addr message was changed between 31400 and 31500
807 2010-12-18 14:38:16 <ArtForz> yup
808 2010-12-18 14:39:26 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoins_draft_spec_0_0_1#addr <- nothing is written there :(
809 2010-12-18 14:39:27 <helmut> ArtForz: any clue about how to import pubkeys to python? I found ecdsa implementation on pypi, but it seems to lack the curve.
810 2010-12-18 14:39:48 <helmut> ArtForz: another one is M2Crypto which is a ssl wrapper, but it seems to only support ascii representation of keys
811 2010-12-18 14:40:11 <ArtForz> afaik bitcoin uses ossls format for pubkeys
812 2010-12-18 14:41:20 <helmut> do you happen to know documentation for it? ;-)
813 2010-12-18 14:41:54 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
814 2010-12-18 14:42:13 Cusipzzz has joined
815 2010-12-18 14:42:16 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
816 2010-12-18 14:43:07 <ArtForz> pubkey is just 04 byte, x and y
817 2010-12-18 14:45:13 <helmut> do you also happen to know how to find start of y? doesn't seem to be netstringlike
818 2010-12-18 14:45:40 <MT`AwAy> helmut: x and y are both 32 bytes
819 2010-12-18 14:45:53 <MT`AwAy> so offset 0 = 04 offset 1 = x offset 33 = y
820 2010-12-18 14:45:53 <helmut> :-)
821 2010-12-18 14:46:06 <MT`AwAy> total: 65 bytes
822 2010-12-18 14:46:09 <ArtForz> or was it 2 279 bit numbers concatenated
823 2010-12-18 14:46:45 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: nah it's as you said, 1 byte 04 32bytes x 32 bytes y
824 2010-12-18 14:47:08 <helmut> now I only need to find a crypto lib
825 2010-12-18 14:47:39 <ArtForz> or write one :P
826 2010-12-18 14:47:56 <helmut> nope
827 2010-12-18 14:49:15 <ArtForz> right, 04 identifies uncompressed coords
828 2010-12-18 14:50:46 <helmut> let me understand this:
829 2010-12-18 14:51:03 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: So you are bounded to CPU miner...
830 2010-12-18 14:51:17 <omglolbbq> is pooled mining less efficient? seems it takes double the time on average to find a block then expected
831 2010-12-18 14:51:33 <helmut> with ec you agree on a field and some base point b. to create a key you choose some n (private) and compute b*n (public), correct?
832 2010-12-18 14:51:55 <DerrikeG> slush_cz: Which only goes a little bit faster than the standard bitcoin client.
833 2010-12-18 14:52:06 <ArtForz> the base point is G
834 2010-12-18 14:52:35 <helmut> whatever you wish to call it
835 2010-12-18 14:52:49 <ArtForz> no, thats standard notation
836 2010-12-18 14:53:14 <helmut> I didn't read that much ec literature yet
837 2010-12-18 14:53:17 <ArtForz> as one of the curve poly params is already called b
838 2010-12-18 14:54:16 <helmut> I only worked on general dlp so far.
839 2010-12-18 14:54:37 <ArtForz> I did a bit of work with EC
840 2010-12-18 14:54:49 <ArtForz> and EC over prime fields is really pretty easy
841 2010-12-18 14:55:03 <ArtForz> well, at least a basic implementation
842 2010-12-18 14:55:06 <helmut> actually I was quite impressed by a randomized algorithm with constant memory consuption solving dlp in sqrt(value).
843 2010-12-18 14:55:29 <ArtForz> yep
844 2010-12-18 14:55:52 <ArtForz> my personal fav is still pollards rho with distinguished points
845 2010-12-18 14:56:08 <helmut> that might be it's name or close to
846 2010-12-18 14:56:25 <ArtForz> well, that one isnt constant memory
847 2010-12-18 14:56:42 <slush_cz> DerrikeG: Yes, but every bit counts and it allow you to be remote
848 2010-12-18 14:57:22 <ArtForz> plain rho or baby step giant step is
849 2010-12-18 14:57:32 <ArtForz> but those dont parallelize too well
850 2010-12-18 14:57:56 <helmut> and baby/giant has sqrt(value) memory foot print
851 2010-12-18 14:59:05 <xelister> you guys are seriously still doing cpu mining?
852 2010-12-18 14:59:53 <ArtForz> ?
853 2010-12-18 15:00:17 <xelister> DerrikeG: just buy radeon 5770
854 2010-12-18 15:00:51 <DerrikeG> How many bitcoins would that cost
855 2010-12-18 15:01:33 <ArtForz> 600 or so?
856 2010-12-18 15:02:27 genjix has left ()
857 2010-12-18 15:03:28 <xelister> around, yea
858 2010-12-18 15:04:36 <DerrikeG> Anybody feeling generous? I might be able to pay you back in five to ten years.
859 2010-12-18 15:05:19 <ArtForz> 5770 should do about 4 days/block at current diff
860 2010-12-18 15:05:21 <ByteCoin> MT'AwAy : You here?
861 2010-12-18 15:08:20 lfm has quit (Quit: Page closed)
862 2010-12-18 15:08:28 <xelister> DerrikeG: well, there is one solution to this, that makes more sense then pooled CPU mining. Want to hear it?
863 2010-12-18 15:08:47 <DerrikeG> Hit me
864 2010-12-18 15:08:51 lfm has joined
865 2010-12-18 15:08:54 <xelister> Tired of POOLED MINING with no result? GET PAID NOW! Doing usefull stuff:) Send pic of "Xelister and bitcoin rock! :*" pen-written: 0.01 BTC on hand; If ur cute girl: 0.05; 0.10 on back or above breasts; 1.00 on them(>18yo!). ~50 BTC for nice girls(PM me). Not faked! 3 nice foto >1MPix. FaceVisible=x2. | Ugly or male? No probl! Ask sister ;) -or- Email Adobe/MS/US gov/China why they're fags(0.03). Real offer:) PM before!
866 2010-12-18 15:09:17 <xelister> ha this is how insane cpu mining is, above makes far more sense <_<
867 2010-12-18 15:09:48 <lfm> you sleaze
868 2010-12-18 15:09:52 <ArtForz> lol
869 2010-12-18 15:10:23 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
870 2010-12-18 15:10:41 <omglolbbq> lol xelister
871 2010-12-18 15:10:43 <DerrikeG> So, are each of those options available multiple times?
872 2010-12-18 15:11:20 <omglolbbq> 1 bitcoin to write something on your tits and send it to some unknown dude... wow.. a lot of girls must want to do that now! xD
873 2010-12-18 15:11:47 <lfm> he seems to be trolling for btc whores
874 2010-12-18 15:12:10 <xelister> this is a real offer
875 2010-12-18 15:12:11 <MT`AwAy> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes#IPv4_Nodes <- look at the version for the last line in the table
876 2010-12-18 15:12:21 <omglolbbq> i offered the idea to my gf, she wasn't impressed with the 1 xD
877 2010-12-18 15:12:26 <xelister> and this options are avialble multiple times (but I dont want spend more then say 100 btc on all this fun ;)
878 2010-12-18 15:12:55 <xelister> omglolbbq: this is x100 times better then CPU mining. CPU polled mining will give you like 0.007 BTC. :D
879 2010-12-18 15:13:02 <xelister> x10
880 2010-12-18 15:13:27 <xelister> omglolbbq: apparently you dont think your gf is cute? ".. ~50 BTC for nice girls .."
881 2010-12-18 15:13:59 <lfm> now do you want nice or do you want cute?
882 2010-12-18 15:14:20 duck1123 has joined
883 2010-12-18 15:15:52 <omglolbbq> she'll put it on her back or belly for 10 xD lol
884 2010-12-18 15:17:23 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Why is Fixed:?? for mining.bitcoin.cz on Fallback Nodes page?
885 2010-12-18 15:17:43 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: because I don't know if it's a fixed ip or not
886 2010-12-18 15:17:49 <slush_cz> it is
887 2010-12-18 15:17:51 <MT`AwAy> ok
888 2010-12-18 15:17:59 <ByteCoin> MT: Want to talk about ecc?
889 2010-12-18 15:18:02 <slush_cz> And "Accept IP transaction"?
890 2010-12-18 15:18:04 <MT`AwAy> fixed
891 2010-12-18 15:18:11 <Kiba> hey folks..
892 2010-12-18 15:18:22 <slush_cz> I think it accept, but never tested this feature of client yet :)
893 2010-12-18 15:18:26 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: "Accept IP Transactions" will be enabled soon, as soon as I document ordercheck
894 2010-12-18 15:18:30 <MT`AwAy> well
895 2010-12-18 15:18:33 <MT`AwAy> detected automatically
896 2010-12-18 15:18:46 <lfm> MT`AwAy: my node is not techniclly fixed but it hasnt changed in years
897 2010-12-18 15:19:06 <ByteCoin> MT: I have a couple of mins if you want a hand with ECC. Did you just say you'd fixed it?
898 2010-12-18 15:19:24 <MT`AwAy> lfm: I guess this qualifies as "??" then
899 2010-12-18 15:19:25 <MT`AwAy> :D
900 2010-12-18 15:19:41 <lfm> ok
901 2010-12-18 15:20:06 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
902 2010-12-18 15:20:20 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: I didn't add secp256k1 in the pre-configured curves of libtomcrypt, I configure it manually when I need it
903 2010-12-18 15:20:42 <ByteCoin> So you have the right modulus and group order passed in?
904 2010-12-18 15:20:46 <MT`AwAy> yep
905 2010-12-18 15:20:57 <ByteCoin> The right generator?
906 2010-12-18 15:21:06 <MT`AwAy> I took them from SEC2 pdf at www.secg.org/collateral/sec2_final.pdf
907 2010-12-18 15:21:46 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: http://ookoo.org/svn/snip/ltc-ecc/main.c <- my libtomcrypt test with the curve parameters
908 2010-12-18 15:21:48 <ByteCoin> Do you want me to check the maths for you?
909 2010-12-18 15:22:35 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: that would be appreciated
910 2010-12-18 15:22:52 <MT`AwAy> maybe you'd prefer if I create a branch on github so you can watch the code itself and not some diff ?
911 2010-12-18 15:23:16 <ByteCoin> How about this:
912 2010-12-18 15:23:39 <ByteCoin> Can you print out the intermediate values from the doubling calculation?
913 2010-12-18 15:23:42 <DerrikeG> Is it possible for bitcoins to be (effectively) destroyed? Is the economy damaged in the long term through people somewhat interested in the project, starting it, getting some funds from the faucet, then never using it again?
914 2010-12-18 15:23:53 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: of course
915 2010-12-18 15:24:05 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: which variable do you want, and at which point ? :p
916 2010-12-18 15:24:25 <ByteCoin> Ok Post to the board the full calculation of doubling the base point
917 2010-12-18 15:24:31 <lfm> DerrikeG: thats not good but it wont destroy bitcoin I dont think
918 2010-12-18 15:24:33 <ByteCoin> Including all the intermedidate values
919 2010-12-18 15:24:47 <MT`AwAy> ok
920 2010-12-18 15:24:47 <MT`AwAy> 2s
921 2010-12-18 15:24:53 <lfm> deriif enuf people do it it could destroy the faucet
922 2010-12-18 15:24:58 <ByteCoin> Don't forget to transform back from the montgomery representation
923 2010-12-18 15:25:12 <ByteCoin> Then do the same but with adding two different points to each other.
924 2010-12-18 15:25:23 <lfm> DerrikeG: if enuf people do it it could destroy the faucet
925 2010-12-18 15:25:24 <ByteCoin> I can't look at the results right now
926 2010-12-18 15:25:34 <MT`AwAy> transform back to montgomery?
927 2010-12-18 15:25:36 <ByteCoin> But I'll look at them late sunday night
928 2010-12-18 15:25:36 <MT`AwAy> how do I do that ?
929 2010-12-18 15:25:51 <ByteCoin> Umm.. I have to look at the code
930 2010-12-18 15:25:51 <Kiba> use the economy cannot be destroyed just because bitcoin are horded
931 2010-12-18 15:26:06 <MT`AwAy> and I guess it only applies to some values
932 2010-12-18 15:26:08 <Kiba> the economy can't be destroyed just because some bitcoins are locked forever
933 2010-12-18 15:26:46 * Kiba have a rather deep and nightmarish dream last night
934 2010-12-18 15:27:12 <Kiba> searchbots and engineering solution I guess
935 2010-12-18 15:27:28 <ByteCoin> Umm. Do you do the conversion to and from montgomery rep in your code?
936 2010-12-18 15:27:40 <ByteCoin> I can't obviously see where it happens
937 2010-12-18 15:27:52 <ByteCoin> You're familiar with montmult?
938 2010-12-18 15:28:42 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: I'm familiar with byte, bits, logic operators, etc... but I suck at theorical maths
939 2010-12-18 15:28:57 <MT`AwAy> I think montgomery translation is done in modmul
940 2010-12-18 15:29:12 <ByteCoin> Ugh...
941 2010-12-18 15:29:22 <DerrikeG> I was thinking more in terms of, since those are funds that are pretty much locked away (lost wallet), that minimizes the amount of money available in the economy since it was established that no more will be "minted" after the cap. The economy doesn't recover from the effectively destroyed coins.
942 2010-12-18 15:29:27 <MT`AwAy> ByteCoin: a comment says "tG = G and convert to montgomery"
943 2010-12-18 15:29:44 <ByteCoin> I'm trying to quickly work out whether the library stores the point coordinates in mont rep or not...
944 2010-12-18 15:30:41 <ByteCoin> Also post the calculations and intermediate values of a doubling and point addition using Tom's built in curves for which the tests work...
945 2010-12-18 15:30:52 <ByteCoin> Do that, and I should be able to work out what's happening
946 2010-12-18 15:30:58 <MT`AwAy> since the changes, the test do not work anymore :p
947 2010-12-18 15:31:17 <ByteCoin> Ok Revert the changes until it works and then post the intermeidate values
948 2010-12-18 15:31:20 <MT`AwAy> (before, a was "modulo - 3", now a is explicitly set)
949 2010-12-18 15:31:28 <ByteCoin> Set to 0?
950 2010-12-18 15:31:38 <MT`AwAy> I took the official values from the SEC2 paper
951 2010-12-18 15:31:52 <xelister> omglolbbq: seriously :> ? hmm ok pm me lol
952 2010-12-18 15:31:59 <MT`AwAy> (basically, modulo-3 for the built in curves)
953 2010-12-18 15:32:10 <ByteCoin> Hmm...
954 2010-12-18 15:32:14 <xelister> bbl
955 2010-12-18 15:32:40 <ByteCoin> Got to go now... Post loads of intermediate values before sunday night and I'll slog through some maths for you!
956 2010-12-18 15:32:46 <ByteCoin> k?
957 2010-12-18 15:33:02 <MT`AwAy> ok
958 2010-12-18 15:33:12 <MT`AwAy> (btw here we are sunday)
959 2010-12-18 15:34:28 <Kiba> so
960 2010-12-18 15:34:36 <Kiba> the first auction of a bitcoin site ended
961 2010-12-18 15:34:43 <Kiba> and jgarzik now owns pastecoin
962 2010-12-18 15:38:26 darrob has joined
963 2010-12-18 15:41:37 craiova has quit (Quit: leaving)
964 2010-12-18 15:47:59 altamic has joined
965 2010-12-18 15:49:09 <MT`AwAy> here
966 2010-12-18 15:49:18 <altamic> hello folks
967 2010-12-18 15:50:16 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/version <- now anyone can have an idea on client versions (it will only contain ~25% of the clients, since the rest do not accept incoming tcp connections)
968 2010-12-18 15:50:35 <MT`AwAy> (the [unknown] is nodes pending to be scanned. nodes not accepting connections are not included)
969 2010-12-18 16:02:13 * MT`AwAy harvested 2521 references to bitcoin clients so far
970 2010-12-18 16:04:27 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
971 2010-12-18 16:05:54 <EvanR> whoa
972 2010-12-18 16:06:10 <EvanR> the mining pool now is at 2300Mh/s
973 2010-12-18 16:07:20 <EvanR> and new statistics are available to show it completed 5 blocks in the las 3 days
974 2010-12-18 16:10:37 gavinandresen has joined
975 2010-12-18 16:11:35 <MT`AwAy> still lots of people with old bitcoins, I'm excluding them from my bootstrap url :)
976 2010-12-18 16:12:07 <MT`AwAy> (and way more bitcoins nodes announced on the bitcoin network than those present on irc)
977 2010-12-18 16:13:20 <MT`AwAy> on IRC we have like 1129 nicks, here I harvested over 2500 ips :)
978 2010-12-18 16:15:48 Diablo-D3 has joined
979 2010-12-18 16:15:48 <MT`AwAy> 2723
980 2010-12-18 16:16:42 <slush_cz> EvanR-work: Was near 2800 for a moment. Then davout disconnected his two miners. I hope he will come back :)
981 2010-12-18 16:17:13 * MT`AwAy sees nodes with bitcoin 0.3.0 & bitcoin 0.3.8
982 2010-12-18 16:17:24 <ArtForz> wow, thats bad
983 2010-12-18 16:18:02 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: It's much more clients than I expected. When I add those without open port (mine) and many people who uses mybitcoin (3 people around me), there are plenty of bitcoiners
984 2010-12-18 16:18:33 <MT`AwAy> yep
985 2010-12-18 16:18:53 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/version <- stats on the bitcoin versions on the network (still scanning, really slowly to not hurt anyone)
986 2010-12-18 16:20:07 <MT`AwAy> in a few hours the scan should be complete, I'll have a complete overview of the network
987 2010-12-18 16:20:16 <MT`AwAy> one node may hide connection do a thousand nodes I haven't listed yet :p
988 2010-12-18 16:21:00 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: btw I count those without open port in my 2740
989 2010-12-18 16:21:30 <ArtForz> what do you count? unique addr()s in last 24h ?
990 2010-12-18 16:22:03 <MT`AwAy> ArtForz: yep
991 2010-12-18 16:22:23 <MT`AwAy> and I try to connect to them (for now it succeed for ~25% of the addrs)
992 2010-12-18 16:22:36 <MT`AwAy> and each time I connect to a node successfully I issue a getaddr
993 2010-12-18 16:23:17 <MT`AwAy> (and compare the result with my database)
994 2010-12-18 16:24:36 <MT`AwAy> it's a bit too early right now, but in one month or so I plan to provide exports of the ips that have continuously provided bitcoin service for more than one month for inclusion in the bitcoin client
995 2010-12-18 16:24:59 <MT`AwAy> (ie, have an initial seed for noirc of better quality)
996 2010-12-18 16:25:23 <MT`AwAy> 2904 nodes now
997 2010-12-18 16:25:47 * MT`AwAy thinks about doing a Bitcoin Node Explorer :D
998 2010-12-18 16:26:18 <MT`AwAy> with GeoIP I'll be able to assign nodes to a country/region and do nice graphs :p
999 2010-12-18 16:27:41 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Export to http://www.bitcoinmap.com/
1000 2010-12-18 16:28:45 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: what kind of format do you want?
1001 2010-12-18 16:29:03 <MT`AwAy> mh
1002 2010-12-18 16:29:05 altamic has joined
1003 2010-12-18 16:29:15 <MT`AwAy> the google map isn't working properly
1004 2010-12-18 16:29:20 <MT`AwAy> wtf, flash?
1005 2010-12-18 16:29:33 <slush_cz> yes, flash. Working for me
1006 2010-12-18 16:29:56 <slush_cz> It has some open fileformat, so it is easy to add marks to map like this.
1007 2010-12-18 16:30:12 <slush_cz> It would be great to add layer generated by your scanner
1008 2010-12-18 16:30:30 <MT`AwAy> let me show you
1009 2010-12-18 16:30:36 <MT`AwAy> http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7656/bitcoinmap.png
1010 2010-12-18 16:30:37 <MT`AwAy> here
1011 2010-12-18 16:30:51 <slush_cz> what browser? Firefox is fine
1012 2010-12-18 16:30:56 <MT`AwAy> chromium, linux
1013 2010-12-18 16:30:59 <MT`AwAy> flash 10.0
1014 2010-12-18 16:31:04 <slush_cz> oh
1015 2010-12-18 16:31:29 <MT`AwAy> adobe hasn't released any new version of flash 64bits for linux
1016 2010-12-18 16:31:33 <slush_cz> chrome is OK
1017 2010-12-18 16:31:35 craiova has joined
1018 2010-12-18 16:31:50 <slush_cz> flash 10.1
1019 2010-12-18 16:32:15 <craiova> Hi. what bash commands I could use to have the last BTC/PPUSD ratio?
1020 2010-12-18 16:32:19 <MT`AwAy> oh, a bitcoin 0.3.6 user
1021 2010-12-18 16:32:41 <craiova> something like grep www.mtgox.com "USD"
1022 2010-12-18 16:32:48 <MT`AwAy> craiova: 2s
1023 2010-12-18 16:33:52 <MT`AwAy> craiova: last price is fine, or you prefer buy/sell ?
1024 2010-12-18 16:34:05 <craiova> last price
1025 2010-12-18 16:34:26 <MT`AwAy> curl -s http://mtgox.com/code/ticker.php | sed -r -e 's/.*last//;s/^"://;s/}.*//';echo
1026 2010-12-18 16:34:38 <craiova> thank you so much!
1027 2010-12-18 16:35:00 <MT`AwAy> even better
1028 2010-12-18 16:35:02 <MT`AwAy> curl -s http://mtgox.com/code/ticker.php | sed -r -e 's/.*last//;s/,.*//;s/^"://;s/}.*//';echo
1029 2010-12-18 16:35:17 <craiova> people that know sed can do amazing things
1030 2010-12-18 16:35:19 <MT`AwAy> in this one, replace the word "last" by "buy" or "sell", and you'll get the infos
1031 2010-12-18 16:35:27 <MT`AwAy> also works with high, low and vol
1032 2010-12-18 16:36:04 <craiova> great, thank you again!
1033 2010-12-18 16:36:12 DrEeevil is now known as bonsaikitten
1034 2010-12-18 16:36:13 <MT`AwAy> craiova: well, it doesn't parse json, it just gets rid of the useless parts
1035 2010-12-18 16:36:36 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: anyway what would be the ideal for you, can you make variable-sized dots appear on your map ?
1036 2010-12-18 16:36:59 Cusipzzz has joined
1037 2010-12-18 16:37:13 <MT`AwAy> or is it better that I send you ~3000 long/lat coordinates?
1038 2010-12-18 16:37:14 <craiova> MT`AwAy: it's great, i tested it
1039 2010-12-18 16:37:17 <slush_cz> Its not my map
1040 2010-12-18 16:37:30 <MT`AwAy> ok
1041 2010-12-18 16:38:05 <MT`AwAy> btw who was writing a python client?
1042 2010-12-18 16:38:06 <MT`AwAy> xD
1043 2010-12-18 16:38:17 <slush_cz> we all :D
1044 2010-12-18 16:38:28 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/bootstrap <- you can poke this if you don't want to bootstrap through irc
1045 2010-12-18 16:38:34 <slush_cz> everybody is writing it's own ;)
1046 2010-12-18 16:38:36 maximi89 has joined
1047 2010-12-18 16:38:50 <spm_Draget> The bitcoin-mining a very slow, isn't it? :P
1048 2010-12-18 16:39:01 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: depends with what you are mining
1049 2010-12-18 16:39:22 <MT`AwAy> if you only have a pickaxe, or if you have industrial stuff
1050 2010-12-18 16:39:29 <Cusipzzz> hah
1051 2010-12-18 16:39:30 <spm_Draget> c2d 2,0gz reduced to single-core, mining since 22h now
1052 2010-12-18 16:39:34 <EvanR> spm_Draget: well i earned 0.07 so far in last few days with no gpus
1053 2010-12-18 16:39:58 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: ok, so come back in one year for your 50 btc, or join the pool
1054 2010-12-18 16:40:01 <Cusipzzz> EvanR ! what's the coin coint at? get any buys done?
1055 2010-12-18 16:40:02 <MT`AwAy> you're using a pickaxe :D
1056 2010-12-18 16:40:02 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: I found this site on twitter. I think owner will be interested to receive your exports. It will fill site a lot
1057 2010-12-18 16:40:30 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: I could also use directly the google map api, or directly plot a worldmap
1058 2010-12-18 16:40:31 <spm_Draget> flattr should go bitcoin =)
1059 2010-12-18 16:40:49 <EvanR> Cusipzzz: no
1060 2010-12-18 16:40:55 <slush_cz> spm_Draget: What you mean by 'slow' ? Site is responding
1061 2010-12-18 16:41:16 <MT`AwAy> 2930 nodes in the table, getting closer to 3000
1062 2010-12-18 16:41:33 <Cusipzzz> EvanR: :(
1063 2010-12-18 16:41:39 <spm_Draget> slush_cz: I just checked back after my first night pickaxe-mining and saw that I made exactly 0 btc :P
1064 2010-12-18 16:41:50 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: use the pool
1065 2010-12-18 16:41:53 <MT`AwAy> ,,pool
1066 2010-12-18 16:41:53 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
1067 2010-12-18 16:42:16 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: with your c2d you're making what, 5000 khashes/sec ?
1068 2010-12-18 16:42:35 <spm_Draget> 900 xD
1069 2010-12-18 16:42:37 <MT`AwAy> XD
1070 2010-12-18 16:42:40 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 900
1071 2010-12-18 16:42:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 900 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 44 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes, and 7 seconds
1072 2010-12-18 16:42:48 <MT`AwAy> about two years :D
1073 2010-12-18 16:42:49 <Cusipzzz> lol
1074 2010-12-18 16:42:53 <spm_Draget> Wheee
1075 2010-12-18 16:42:54 <MT`AwAy> supposing the difficulty doesn't grow
1076 2010-12-18 16:42:57 <MT`AwAy> (it will)
1077 2010-12-18 16:43:05 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: so just join the pool :D
1078 2010-12-18 16:44:57 <spm_Draget> I will rather set up some services using bitcoin =)
1079 2010-12-18 16:45:22 <slush_cz> spm_Draget: use ,,pool, but don't expect too high reward. You will receive cents or less per block...
1080 2010-12-18 16:45:23 <gribble> I do not know about 'pool,', but I do know about these similar topics: 'pool'
1081 2010-12-18 16:45:32 <MT`AwAy> spm_Draget: yes, you can also participate in the bitcoin wiki at https://en.bitcoin.it/ and earn coins for good participations :p
1082 2010-12-18 16:46:18 <EvanR> this blog claims that bitcoin exchanges are 'you can probably assume they are illegal'
1083 2010-12-18 16:46:33 <EvanR> and in a legal gray area
1084 2010-12-18 16:46:37 <slush_cz> !pool
1085 2010-12-18 16:46:38 <RichardG> Pooled miner (91.121.29.91:8335) status (last updated 2mins 39secs ago): 68 clients, 142145 khash/s, next block est. 4days 6hrs 50mins
1086 2010-12-18 16:47:02 <slush_cz> !newpool
1087 2010-12-18 16:47:03 <RichardG> New pooled miner (mining.bitcoin.cz:8332) status: Round started 18/Dec/2010 03:17:33, 54 active workers, 28441 shares contributed, 2345984 khash/s
1088 2010-12-18 16:47:20 <Cusipzzz> what blog?
1089 2010-12-18 16:47:27 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: my accountant & lawyer found bitcoins to be legal under japanese law
1090 2010-12-18 16:47:41 redengin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1091 2010-12-18 16:47:55 <EvanR> im confused about why they would not be legal
1092 2010-12-18 16:48:02 <EvanR> in any country
1093 2010-12-18 16:48:09 <Cusipzzz> it's def illegal in USA..patriot act, kyc rules for money transfers
1094 2010-12-18 16:48:19 <slush_cz> EvanR-work: money laundering
1095 2010-12-18 16:48:21 <Cusipzzz> but..can it be enforced?
1096 2010-12-18 16:48:32 <EvanR> what about laundering
1097 2010-12-18 16:48:36 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: well here the issue was more regarding accounting & tax declarations, how should bitcoin income be declared?
1098 2010-12-18 16:48:47 <lfm> if your money sez "this is legal tender" there may be laws saying everything else is not legal
1099 2010-12-18 16:48:53 <slush_cz> EvanR Government cannot monitor financial flows
1100 2010-12-18 16:49:06 <EvanR> MT`AwAy: it shouldnt
1101 2010-12-18 16:49:20 <EvanR> why would you list income thats not in yen?
1102 2010-12-18 16:49:30 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: I list income in EUR, USD, etc
1103 2010-12-18 16:49:30 <EvanR> if you exchange for yen, then you list it
1104 2010-12-18 16:49:36 <EvanR> or usd
1105 2010-12-18 16:49:36 <MT`AwAy> and I also have expense in many currencies
1106 2010-12-18 16:50:09 <EvanR> lfm: really?
1107 2010-12-18 16:50:10 <lfm> yes there are accounting standards for multi-currencies
1108 2010-12-18 16:50:34 <lfm> EvanR: I dont know what laws are in your country
1109 2010-12-18 16:50:34 <EvanR> slush_cz: but how does bitcoin fall under than and trading other things doesnt?
1110 2010-12-18 16:50:48 <EvanR> under that
1111 2010-12-18 16:51:09 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: in many countries, using something else than money as "currency" is illegal, and may be seen as a tax evasion attempt
1112 2010-12-18 16:51:15 <MT`AwAy> for example in France :D
1113 2010-12-18 16:51:16 <craiova> MT`AwAy: I have this line, but it wont work in conky ${execi 6000 curl -s http://mtgox.com/code/ticker.php | sed -r -e 's/.*last//;s/,.*//;s/^"://;s/}.*//';echo}
1114 2010-12-18 16:51:22 <lfm> EvanR: Most income tax organizations will tell you you need to pay tax on barter income too
1115 2010-12-18 16:51:33 <EvanR> thats insane
1116 2010-12-18 16:51:35 <MT`AwAy> craiova: what is conky ? :D
1117 2010-12-18 16:51:40 <EvanR> wouldnt that be sales tax?
1118 2010-12-18 16:51:50 <Cusipzzz> in the USA, it's more about money laundering, the govt needs to be able to identify source and recipient of money flows, otherwise it could be funding terrorist or sanctioned countries
1119 2010-12-18 16:52:01 <craiova> MT`AwAy: it's an on-screen info panel
1120 2010-12-18 16:52:10 <craiova> it sais: sh: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string
1121 2010-12-18 16:52:13 <EvanR> does the main stream media know anything about this?
1122 2010-12-18 16:52:20 <MT`AwAy> craiova: try checking if there's no escaping required for the }
1123 2010-12-18 16:52:22 <Cusipzzz> alternative currencies are legal in USA, many small communities use them
1124 2010-12-18 16:52:35 <xelister> Cusipzzz: in usa they never shut the fuck up with the tired old story about imaginary 'terrorists' do they
1125 2010-12-18 16:52:43 <MT`AwAy> craiova: there's a } in the sed regexp, since your line starts with ${ it may confuse your soft
1126 2010-12-18 16:52:48 <Cusipzzz> xelister: sadly, no.
1127 2010-12-18 16:53:01 <EvanR> imaginary terrorists eh
1128 2010-12-18 16:53:08 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: I searched laws in my country (central Europe) and it is definitely illegal to pay in anything other than 'legal tender', which is CZK here.
1129 2010-12-18 16:53:08 <EvanR> are those more or less dangerous than the real ones?
1130 2010-12-18 16:53:12 * xelister sets his waffle on fire
1131 2010-12-18 16:53:14 <xelister> HELP HELP TERRORISTS
1132 2010-12-18 16:53:16 <MT`AwAy> xelister: don't forget the WMD
1133 2010-12-18 16:53:20 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: Strictly said, nobody should accept even USD or EUR here
1134 2010-12-18 16:53:26 <xelister> you all seen it, Mike did it! Lets rape his wife
1135 2010-12-18 16:53:32 <Cusipzzz> yeah.
1136 2010-12-18 16:53:39 <xelister> yes, and Mike have weapons of mass destruction
1137 2010-12-18 16:53:44 <xelister> WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION GUYS
1138 2010-12-18 16:53:52 <xelister> think of the children
1139 2010-12-18 16:53:59 <EvanR> alright stop the politics
1140 2010-12-18 16:54:07 <xelister> so, who's going with me to my neighbour to take over his home and rape his wide
1141 2010-12-18 16:54:10 <xelister> so, who's going with me to my neighbour to take over his home and rape his wife
1142 2010-12-18 16:54:10 <EvanR> im just interested in the laws
1143 2010-12-18 16:54:11 <xelister> and his kids
1144 2010-12-18 16:54:13 <slush_cz> xelister: don't post illegal words, big brother is watching you!
1145 2010-12-18 16:54:14 <MT`AwAy> think of how afghanistan will become a great country with the love of god and all the good american things
1146 2010-12-18 16:54:17 <xelister> remeber, we are doing it for the kids
1147 2010-12-18 16:54:19 <slush_cz> Talk in newspeak instead :)
1148 2010-12-18 16:54:26 <xelister> to save the childrem
1149 2010-12-18 16:54:37 <xelister> indeed slush_cz
1150 2010-12-18 16:55:08 <xelister> minpeace - Who goto mik aprt. to takeovr. wf & kds?
1151 2010-12-18 16:55:09 <lfm> slush_cz: some places dont have illegal words, its called freedom of speach
1152 2010-12-18 16:55:22 <MT`AwAy> 4382 unique addr so far
1153 2010-12-18 16:55:40 <slush_cz> lfm: But this is logged public channel, not place you are talking about :-D
1154 2010-12-18 16:55:42 <Grantt> as far as i know (from experience) microcurrencies/tokens (ie: Entropia universe PED, Second life L$, now also BTC) are not subject to Sales-tax/VAT. Ie: in Secondlife if you buy a sim from someone for USD/EUR you must pay vat, but if you do so from someone in L$ you dont.
1155 2010-12-18 16:55:59 <slush_cz> lfm: I'm kidding
1156 2010-12-18 16:56:10 <MT`AwAy> Grantt: instead you pay vat when you convert your USD to L$
1157 2010-12-18 16:56:19 <Grantt> you dont
1158 2010-12-18 16:56:29 <xelister> the company behind L$ does pay vat then?
1159 2010-12-18 16:56:33 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1160 2010-12-18 16:56:35 <Grantt> you pay income tax if you cashout more than you pay in
1161 2010-12-18 16:56:43 <Cusipzzz> in theory
1162 2010-12-18 16:56:48 <Grantt> xelister: correct
1163 2010-12-18 16:57:08 <xelister> in theory USA army brings peace, and in USA you have democracy
1164 2010-12-18 16:57:09 <xelister> ha. ha. ha
1165 2010-12-18 16:57:14 <slush_cz> haha
1166 2010-12-18 16:57:19 <EvanR> ._.
1167 2010-12-18 16:57:20 <Cusipzzz> hahaha
1168 2010-12-18 16:57:38 <Grantt> xelister: winners write victory, and history is all about peace isnt it ;)
1169 2010-12-18 16:57:39 <xelister> 8-}
1170 2010-12-18 16:57:43 <Grantt> history*
1171 2010-12-18 16:57:51 <xelister> well to some limits
1172 2010-12-18 16:57:59 <MT`AwAy> "Some European SL users said that Linden labs forced this tax on them without notice and is charging tax on property that does not really exist (and thus should not be taxed under EU law). This viewpoint is completely incorrect, as VAT is a tax on both goods and services, with a 2003 E.U. directive covering the collection of VAT on digital services"
1173 2010-12-18 16:58:20 <xelister> like, most americans know their grand²parents invide and backstabbed people to which 'american' land belonged, they just don't give two shits about it
1174 2010-12-18 16:58:28 <MT`AwAy> (regarding vat on linden dollar)
1175 2010-12-18 16:58:37 <Grantt> there is no vat on L$ :)
1176 2010-12-18 16:58:39 <EvanR> xelister youre an idiot
1177 2010-12-18 16:58:48 <xelister> MT`AwAy: that is actually interesting tax/law question
1178 2010-12-18 16:58:57 <Cusipzzz> WoW gold is next
1179 2010-12-18 16:58:59 <Grantt> but also i tax to norway (outside of EU, yay) so no vat neither
1180 2010-12-18 16:58:59 <xelister> EvanR: say what?
1181 2010-12-18 16:59:26 <xelister> imho people would be free if there would be no tax based on what you do
1182 2010-12-18 16:59:28 <MT`AwAy> "If Linden dollars were a recognised currency, then normal money exchanger laws would apply to Linden Lab, and VAT would only be chargeable on the money exchangers' conversion fees and not the entire amount of the transaction."
1183 2010-12-18 16:59:29 <xelister> just tax pay person
1184 2010-12-18 16:59:45 <xelister> want to stay in Freedomlandia? Ok, pay 200 USD per month or gtfo.
1185 2010-12-18 16:59:55 <MT`AwAy> :p
1186 2010-12-18 16:59:56 <xelister> No need to controll how much you earn, and what "earning" means
1187 2010-12-18 17:00:08 <xelister> like x1000 less officialls needed to controll this
1188 2010-12-18 17:00:24 <xelister> some simple rules. simple rules are best
1189 2010-12-18 17:00:29 <EvanR> the US tax system is complex. we all know this. please fix it and stop bitching
1190 2010-12-18 17:00:34 <MT`AwAy> xelister: for companies that's called Delaware :p (LLC doing only business outside US => fixed $250/year tax)
1191 2010-12-18 17:00:36 <xelister> and verifiable & not-cheatable
1192 2010-12-18 17:00:55 <xelister> MT`AwAy: what do you mean? URL with more info please? pm me :)
1193 2010-12-18 17:00:58 <xelister> bbl
1194 2010-12-18 17:01:02 <MT`AwAy> lol
1195 2010-12-18 17:01:15 <xelister> but I was speaking overall, also about people, not just companies/corps
1196 2010-12-18 17:01:52 <MT`AwAy> yep, for people there are some such countries, but they are badly seen from other countries of freedom
1197 2010-12-18 17:01:55 <xelister> instead of all this shit and black market, grey zone, bookkeeping tricks and other crap -> just pay fixed amount per month for using the country you're living in and that is it
1198 2010-12-18 17:02:09 <Cusipzzz> some people use more than others
1199 2010-12-18 17:02:17 <xelister> would be nice to have such a Freelandia - country where people are free ;)
1200 2010-12-18 17:02:22 <EvanR> xelister: that makes no sense
1201 2010-12-18 17:02:59 <xelister> free to do ALL (drugs, weapons, sex, prostitution, dengerous sports, ride with no seatbells etc ;) without nanny-state, as long as your actions:
1202 2010-12-18 17:03:41 <wump> yes, simple rules are better and more effcient, they could be easily checked, no armies of expensive lawyers needed
1203 2010-12-18 17:03:41 <xelister> 1) do not do to other people's controll-zone what given people do not agree to
1204 2010-12-18 17:03:46 <Cusipzzz> who pays for the 100k hospital bill when you crack your head open with no seatbelt?
1205 2010-12-18 17:03:58 Toadyonps3 has joined
1206 2010-12-18 17:04:01 <xelister> 2) controll zone of person is: his body, his possessions
1207 2010-12-18 17:04:08 <wump> Cusipzzz: yourself
1208 2010-12-18 17:04:08 gavinandresen has joined
1209 2010-12-18 17:04:11 <Kiba> YOU do
1210 2010-12-18 17:04:20 <Cusipzzz> and if you don't have 100k, they let you die?
1211 2010-12-18 17:04:24 <xelister> 3) what they do not want = also they must consent, and must be able to consent (i.e. above certain age)
1212 2010-12-18 17:04:26 <Kiba> yeah
1213 2010-12-18 17:04:28 <EvanR> Cusipzzz: yes
1214 2010-12-18 17:04:33 <Cusipzzz> you carry a card with you showing how much you can spend
1215 2010-12-18 17:04:33 <Kiba> you task risk!
1216 2010-12-18 17:04:33 <EvanR> rugged individualism
1217 2010-12-18 17:04:34 <Cusipzzz> ?
1218 2010-12-18 17:04:38 <xelister> Cusipzzz: yea then you die
1219 2010-12-18 17:04:48 <Kiba> your fault for not wearing seat belt!
1220 2010-12-18 17:04:51 <xelister> get a cancer in say Poland and probably most of EU
1221 2010-12-18 17:04:55 <xelister> you die, noone cures you
1222 2010-12-18 17:05:16 <xelister> even in USA
1223 2010-12-18 17:05:16 <Cusipzzz> so when someone comes to emergency room, first step is verify ability to pay ?
1224 2010-12-18 17:05:21 <wump> or you find someone crazy enough to heal you for free, it's up to you
1225 2010-12-18 17:05:24 <Cusipzzz> then decide treatment?
1226 2010-12-18 17:05:26 <xelister> get a cancer -> need to find 100.000 for medication
1227 2010-12-18 17:05:38 <Kiba> Cusipzzz: the hospital have limited resource anyway
1228 2010-12-18 17:05:40 <Grantt> xelister: thats not entirely correct, your family feeds the pharmaceticual-industrial complex which is good for business
1229 2010-12-18 17:05:42 <Kiba> better make it EFFICENT
1230 2010-12-18 17:05:49 <Grantt> ;)
1231 2010-12-18 17:05:55 <xelister> Cusipzzz: well such a freelandia would be a basic frame, a kernel ;) for other communities
1232 2010-12-18 17:06:02 <Cusipzzz> haha
1233 2010-12-18 17:06:06 <Kiba> if you want hospital to cure you more
1234 2010-12-18 17:06:06 <xelister> then there could be community A, where you pay X per month to get health care
1235 2010-12-18 17:06:10 <Kiba> MAKE IT CHEAP
1236 2010-12-18 17:06:10 <wump> insurance would still be possible though
1237 2010-12-18 17:06:14 <EvanR> this freelandia is so broken and offensive
1238 2010-12-18 17:06:15 <xelister> community B more communist like
1239 2010-12-18 17:06:21 <xelister> community C more capitalist like, with VAT like tax
1240 2010-12-18 17:06:23 <xelister> and so on
1241 2010-12-18 17:06:28 <EvanR> makes me want to establish my own real free country, correctly
1242 2010-12-18 17:06:39 <Kiba> Cusipzzz: look, what you need to do is industralize medical care
1243 2010-12-18 17:06:41 <xelister> and people subscribe to given set of rules (to big extend, without need to move!!)
1244 2010-12-18 17:06:52 <Kiba> then even poor people would be able to afford it
1245 2010-12-18 17:07:06 <EvanR> the free peoples republic of ____
1246 2010-12-18 17:07:12 <Kiba> get a bunch of heart surgeon, make them perform 3000 operations every month
1247 2010-12-18 17:07:20 <xelister> instead of moving to country X where law is better, you just choose your set of laws, by like signing into organizations. Actually this works already to extend: sign up for medical care plan e.g.
1248 2010-12-18 17:07:29 <Kiba> then you got a bunch of highly paid surgeons who can make up for it in VOOOOOOOOOOOOLUME
1249 2010-12-18 17:07:34 <Kiba> but also QUAAAAAAAAAAAAALITY
1250 2010-12-18 17:07:51 <EvanR> xelister: is it legal to establish a country on US soil?
1251 2010-12-18 17:07:59 <Kiba> it also make the medical establishment mad at you, I admit
1252 2010-12-18 17:08:11 <wump> EvanR: nope, the US army would conquer you :P
1253 2010-12-18 17:08:17 <xelister> EvanR: to some extent probably - like this cults that own big ranchos and land...
1254 2010-12-18 17:08:21 <EvanR> thats stupid
1255 2010-12-18 17:08:21 <xelister> EvanR: but better buy islad
1256 2010-12-18 17:08:27 <Kiba> Cusipzzz: see? saving lives is a matter of economy of scale and scientific advancement
1257 2010-12-18 17:08:32 <Grantt> you can establish a country offshore (on international waters)
1258 2010-12-18 17:08:33 <EvanR> now i have ot have my own defense
1259 2010-12-18 17:08:33 <Cusipzzz> lol
1260 2010-12-18 17:08:44 <EvanR> that goes against the ideals of my country
1261 2010-12-18 17:08:44 <wump> you can't start a country on some other country's soil
1262 2010-12-18 17:08:49 <xelister> there should be a country with minimalistic law
1263 2010-12-18 17:08:54 <Grantt> would be nice to have bitcoinia
1264 2010-12-18 17:08:57 <xelister> that allow small countries to be created within
1265 2010-12-18 17:08:58 <wump> at least not without violence
1266 2010-12-18 17:09:00 <xelister> Grantt: haha bitcoinia
1267 2010-12-18 17:09:06 <xelister> :)
1268 2010-12-18 17:09:11 <Kiba> you need a henry ford of medicine
1269 2010-12-18 17:09:20 <Kiba> who is not afraid to crush the medical cabal that exists in the state
1270 2010-12-18 17:09:46 <Kiba> or is not afraid to face hundred of screaming socialists in EU
1271 2010-12-18 17:10:01 <Kiba> and crush them as well
1272 2010-12-18 17:10:03 <EvanR> how much does an island cost?
1273 2010-12-18 17:10:09 <wump> anyway, it seems to be where the future is going, it's harder and harder for nation states to force rules on multinationals
1274 2010-12-18 17:10:11 <Kiba> because saving lives is more improtant than crappy economics!
1275 2010-12-18 17:10:25 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1276 2010-12-18 17:10:40 <EvanR> Kiba: without lives, there IS no economics
1277 2010-12-18 17:10:51 <EvanR> one exists in the context of the other
1278 2010-12-18 17:10:52 <Cusipzzz> some lives are worth more than others
1279 2010-12-18 17:10:54 <wump> seems like we'll have cocacola land, shell land, etc :)
1280 2010-12-18 17:10:59 <Kiba> meh.
1281 2010-12-18 17:11:16 <Kiba> but anyway, I am more worried about my parents dying...
1282 2010-12-18 17:11:20 altamic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1283 2010-12-18 17:11:20 <Kiba> than I am dying
1284 2010-12-18 17:11:32 <wump> some lives are worth more *to you* than others
1285 2010-12-18 17:11:35 <Kiba> so, that is my wish....to extend the lives...
1286 2010-12-18 17:11:47 <Kiba> of human beings
1287 2010-12-18 17:12:12 <wump> we just need a singularity for that :P
1288 2010-12-18 17:12:17 <Cusipzzz> we'll see, maybe someone will sell health insurance for BTCs
1289 2010-12-18 17:12:24 <EvanR> im feeling incredibly antisocial this morning. i think the best way to cope with this is to establish the government of my own free peoples democractic republic
1290 2010-12-18 17:12:30 <Kiba> Cusipzzz: I am thinking a research foundation might be more efficent
1291 2010-12-18 17:12:42 <Cusipzzz> that too
1292 2010-12-18 17:12:46 <wump> the antisocial republic of individual people
1293 2010-12-18 17:12:48 <EvanR> and trade policy with the US
1294 2010-12-18 17:13:02 <Kiba> a research foundation dedicated to eradicating TOP 10 things that kill people
1295 2010-12-18 17:13:14 <wump> kill things that kill people
1296 2010-12-18 17:13:19 <EvanR> i will definitely think of health care
1297 2010-12-18 17:13:24 <EvanR> thanks to Kiba
1298 2010-12-18 17:13:41 <Kiba> the number one cause of death? heart disease!
1299 2010-12-18 17:13:49 <wump> suicide is number two probably
1300 2010-12-18 17:13:56 <Kiba> naw, that's cancer
1301 2010-12-18 17:14:12 <Kiba> well, it's only the #1 cause of death in the USA
1302 2010-12-18 17:14:25 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1303 2010-12-18 17:14:53 <Kiba> lower respiratory infection 11%
1304 2010-12-18 17:15:00 <Kiba> http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index.html
1305 2010-12-18 17:15:04 <Kiba> heart disease is second
1306 2010-12-18 17:15:14 altamic has joined
1307 2010-12-18 17:15:46 <Kiba> I guess
1308 2010-12-18 17:15:53 <Kiba> it's heart disease for the world
1309 2010-12-18 17:19:39 <Grantt> #1 cause of death is industrilized food, #1 sympom of death may be cancer though
1310 2010-12-18 17:19:52 <MT`AwAy> hey
1311 2010-12-18 17:19:54 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1312 2010-12-18 17:20:18 <MT`AwAy> http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7691/mapi.png <- bitcoin nodes in the world, you can somewhat recognize the US on the left, europe in the middle, and australia seems to have quite a few bitcoiners too
1313 2010-12-18 17:20:29 altamic has joined
1314 2010-12-18 17:20:50 <Grantt> cool map
1315 2010-12-18 17:20:56 <Cusipzzz> how is that tracked, IP ?
1316 2010-12-18 17:21:14 <MT`AwAy> Cusipzzz: yes
1317 2010-12-18 17:21:18 <Grantt> wish there was more dots around china though (where's all our goldfarmers ?)
1318 2010-12-18 17:21:30 <Cusipzzz> well, some of use VPN in anoter country, lol
1319 2010-12-18 17:21:34 <lfm> im surpized at the number in south america actually
1320 2010-12-18 17:21:37 <Grantt> ah good point
1321 2010-12-18 17:21:41 <MT`AwAy> yeah, and some use tor too
1322 2010-12-18 17:21:46 <Cusipzzz> yep
1323 2010-12-18 17:21:55 <MT`AwAy> however I don't think clients using tor report themselves with addr
1324 2010-12-18 17:21:58 <MT`AwAy> (dunnoÃ
1325 2010-12-18 17:22:06 <EvanR> official currency, bitcoins
1326 2010-12-18 17:22:12 <EvanR> official language, esperanto
1327 2010-12-18 17:22:18 <lfm> tor prolly reports loc of exit node
1328 2010-12-18 17:22:29 <Cusipzzz> as soon as the chinese find out farming coins > farming WoW gold, look out
1329 2010-12-18 17:22:52 <EvanR> ill have to open up a dialog with china about that
1330 2010-12-18 17:22:53 <MT`AwAy> Cusipzzz: the gpu factories are in china :p
1331 2010-12-18 17:23:05 <Cusipzzz> yeah
1332 2010-12-18 17:24:18 <EvanR> ive heard some interesting principles in here. principle of least violence?
1333 2010-12-18 17:24:25 <EvanR> is that an original concept?
1334 2010-12-18 17:25:49 <EvanR> or was that not in this channel
1335 2010-12-18 17:25:52 <EvanR> :S
1336 2010-12-18 17:26:28 <Cusipzzz> that was in #smoking-weed-and-rambling
1337 2010-12-18 17:26:54 <EvanR> lol
1338 2010-12-18 17:27:17 <EvanR> crap. whats the state of international law. i figured there was none?
1339 2010-12-18 17:27:42 <EvanR> apparently if you are not recognized by the international system you arent subject to it, whatever it is
1340 2010-12-18 17:29:27 [Noodles] has joined
1341 2010-12-18 17:29:53 darrob has joined
1342 2010-12-18 17:31:16 <MT`AwAy> ok
1343 2010-12-18 17:31:17 <MT`AwAy> new map
1344 2010-12-18 17:31:19 <MT`AwAy> easier to see
1345 2010-12-18 17:31:31 <MT`AwAy> http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9824/mapb.png
1346 2010-12-18 17:31:53 <Cusipzzz> looks good
1347 2010-12-18 17:32:10 <MT`AwAy> the map image is part of /usr/share/gnome
1348 2010-12-18 17:32:39 <MT`AwAy> (the only world image I could find where lat/long would match pixel positions)
1349 2010-12-18 17:32:47 <MT`AwAy> (well there are probably others, but I'm lazy)
1350 2010-12-18 17:32:53 <EvanR> wow thats cool
1351 2010-12-18 17:33:05 <EvanR> looks like there are other bitcoinerse in louisiana
1352 2010-12-18 17:33:25 <EvanR> is this an invasion of privacy? ;)
1353 2010-12-18 17:33:42 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: anyone could harvest those data easily
1354 2010-12-18 17:33:44 <Cusipzzz> use a vpn then
1355 2010-12-18 17:35:22 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: send them invitations with ip transactions :p (send 0.01 btc with message "hey let's open a local BUG") (bug= Bitcoin Users Group)
1356 2010-12-18 17:35:23 <MT`AwAy> :d
1357 2010-12-18 17:35:36 <Cusipzzz> yeah
1358 2010-12-18 17:35:51 <EvanR> i wonder how accurate this is
1359 2010-12-18 17:35:55 <Cusipzzz> not a bad idea...unless they are really in russia using a louisiana vpn =)
1360 2010-12-18 17:36:24 <EvanR> i see my dot, and that dot is obviously new orleans, one pixel north is likely the northshore, and the bottom left one is lafayette
1361 2010-12-18 17:36:26 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: it's somewhat accurate, but thanks to the large bulk of data it's fairly accurate
1362 2010-12-18 17:36:27 <EvanR> heh
1363 2010-12-18 17:36:43 <MT`AwAy> for US it's quite accurate (except for vpn/tor users)
1364 2010-12-18 17:36:59 <EvanR> hehe one dot in siberia
1365 2010-12-18 17:37:00 <MT`AwAy> soon 6000 nodes
1366 2010-12-18 17:37:20 <MT`AwAy> ok, who want to make an interactive map so you can zoom on a region? :D
1367 2010-12-18 17:37:32 <Cusipzzz> ya, down to google maps streetview!
1368 2010-12-18 17:37:57 <MT`AwAy> the json file is 420kB
1369 2010-12-18 17:38:18 <MT`AwAy> over 6k!
1370 2010-12-18 17:38:24 <MT`AwAy> 448kB of json
1371 2010-12-18 17:39:50 <MT`AwAy> 6186 unique addresses so far
1372 2010-12-18 17:39:53 <slush_cz> oh, too many dots in europe. I'm surprised usa is almost empty
1373 2010-12-18 17:40:06 <slush_cz> Thats far better than I expected
1374 2010-12-18 17:40:21 <slush_cz> Two dots are mine :)
1375 2010-12-18 17:40:24 <lfm> if you add up all the transaction fees ever paid in the block chain, they still dont add up to the reward for one block (45.61007779 nBTC
1376 2010-12-18 17:40:26 <Cusipzzz> <--USA using euro VPN
1377 2010-12-18 17:40:37 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: note that you may be sharing your dot with other people who live on the same pixel
1378 2010-12-18 17:40:51 <slush_cz> :-D
1379 2010-12-18 17:41:26 <lfm> I have two pixels
1380 2010-12-18 17:41:49 <jgarzik> Kiba: I do? send me a bitcoin address then
1381 2010-12-18 17:42:20 <lfm> jgarzik: wrong channel?
1382 2010-12-18 17:42:43 <jgarzik> lfm: right channel, long scrollback
1383 2010-12-18 17:42:51 <lfm> o ok
1384 2010-12-18 17:42:59 <Kiba> I thought you won the auction for pastecoin
1385 2010-12-18 17:43:22 <jgarzik> Kiba: I just woke up, so you know better than I :)
1386 2010-12-18 17:43:44 <omglolbbq> why does the pool have an average time to find a block of 18 hours instead of something close to the expected 4-5 hours
1387 2010-12-18 17:43:44 <Kiba> yeah, you pretty much own pastecoin
1388 2010-12-18 17:43:49 <Kiba> now you talk to.....
1389 2010-12-18 17:44:48 <xelister> Cusipzzz: VPN bought with BTC? which one, is it good?
1390 2010-12-18 17:44:52 <jgarzik> Kiba: so I send BTC to genjix, according to PM
1391 2010-12-18 17:44:55 <jgarzik> ?
1392 2010-12-18 17:45:11 <Kiba> I don't know
1393 2010-12-18 17:45:25 <Cusipzzz> xelister: I use a couple...1 bought with BTC
1394 2010-12-18 17:45:42 <MT`AwAy> oh
1395 2010-12-18 17:45:45 <MT`AwAy> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/8/8b/20050428180358!WorldMap-B_with_Frame.png <- looks like a nice map
1396 2010-12-18 17:46:18 <MT`AwAy> now I need to plot it
1397 2010-12-18 17:46:50 [Noodles] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1398 2010-12-18 17:46:59 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Export it as XML for google maps
1399 2010-12-18 17:47:13 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: not sure google map will like over 6000 dots
1400 2010-12-18 17:47:24 <MT`AwAy> (6196 right now)
1401 2010-12-18 17:47:25 <slush_cz> sure
1402 2010-12-18 17:47:51 calebopeko has joined
1403 2010-12-18 17:48:00 <slush_cz> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.torservers.net%2Fmisc%2Ftormap%2Ftormap.kml
1404 2010-12-18 17:48:00 <slush_cz> Map of tor network
1405 2010-12-18 17:48:21 <MT`AwAy> :D
1406 2010-12-18 17:48:21 <MT`AwAy> ok
1407 2010-12-18 17:48:23 <MT`AwAy> let's try
1408 2010-12-18 17:48:26 <MT`AwAy> kml...
1409 2010-12-18 17:48:30 <jgarzik> Kiba: sorry; for some reason I thought you were selling it, not genjix
1410 2010-12-18 17:48:31 <slush_cz> it takes a while unitl map is loaded, but then it is quite fast
1411 2010-12-18 17:50:15 StrangeCharm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1412 2010-12-18 17:55:42 <Kiba> jgarzik: what is your plan for pastecoin?
1413 2010-12-18 17:55:43 genjix has joined
1414 2010-12-18 17:55:50 anarchyx has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1415 2010-12-18 17:56:09 <genjix> MT`AwAy: hey what's your BTC address?
1416 2010-12-18 17:56:09 <jgarzik> Kiba: 1) have coffee. 2) ? 3) profit!!!
1417 2010-12-18 17:56:39 <arcatan> zomg, i didn't know how to get started with BTC, but I see jgarzik has a fine plan
1418 2010-12-18 17:56:46 * arcatan goes to make some coffee
1419 2010-12-18 17:56:48 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1420 2010-12-18 17:56:48 <MT`AwAy> genjix: 1Eym7pyJcaambv8FG4ZoU8A4xsiL9us2zz
1421 2010-12-18 17:58:02 * jgarzik has gcc call graph analysis in another window; not enough brain cells to process that, either.
1422 2010-12-18 17:58:05 <genjix> MT`AwAy: b987481ecfe75d6c1eec5bb307cea98ccb31c5f5417fd45115d0028b97a96cbc
1423 2010-12-18 17:58:14 <MT`AwAy> :D
1424 2010-12-18 17:58:25 <Kiba> genjix: what you sending bitcoin for?
1425 2010-12-18 17:58:29 <MT`AwAy> ok
1426 2010-12-18 17:58:33 <MT`AwAy> now I need to upload my kml file
1427 2010-12-18 17:58:55 <ne0futur> probably for https://www.kalyhost.com/?_a=96fc0a3d-7839-49ac-9c76-e14642b8358c services
1428 2010-12-18 17:58:57 <genjix> jgarzik: deleted
1429 2010-12-18 17:59:02 <slush_cz> jgarzik: Did you read patch to cpuminer from Raulo already?
1430 2010-12-18 17:59:05 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: almost
1431 2010-12-18 17:59:06 <MT`AwAy> :p
1432 2010-12-18 17:59:21 <genjix> Kiba: i gave 35% of the sale to MT because he was kind enough to donate VPS space for pastecoin
1433 2010-12-18 17:59:30 <Kiba> ah
1434 2010-12-18 17:59:42 <ne0futur> MT`AwAy: the internet explorer problem is fixed ?
1435 2010-12-18 17:59:43 <Kiba> jgarzik: your real plan for pastecoin?
1436 2010-12-18 18:00:52 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: I have nobody to fix it
1437 2010-12-18 18:01:26 <ne0futur> I lost a customer with this . . .
1438 2010-12-18 18:01:47 <ne0futur> recommended kalyhost for domain, he could not buy with IE . . . went away for the whole website
1439 2010-12-18 18:02:14 * ne0futur lost 400 eur recommending kalyhost
1440 2010-12-18 18:02:23 <ne0futur> i think you loose even more eith this pb
1441 2010-12-18 18:03:05 <Kiba> IE shit?
1442 2010-12-18 18:03:19 <ne0futur> yes I know IE is the bad thing
1443 2010-12-18 18:03:47 <Kiba> surely he have IE7 at the very least?
1444 2010-12-18 18:04:13 <ne0futur> dunno exactly, lost contact with the customer after this
1445 2010-12-18 18:04:25 <ne0futur> but MT`AwAy probably seen the IE version in the logs
1446 2010-12-18 18:04:47 <MT`AwAy> mh
1447 2010-12-18 18:04:57 <Kiba> he probably use IE to views his own site
1448 2010-12-18 18:05:04 <Kiba> probably not worth the revenue anyway
1449 2010-12-18 18:05:29 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin.kml
1450 2010-12-18 18:05:46 <ne0futur> yes not the kind of customer I love for sure
1451 2010-12-18 18:05:51 <ne0futur> but I still need to eat :p
1452 2010-12-18 18:06:40 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: it can be fixed in exchange for some of your time :p
1453 2010-12-18 18:07:03 <Kiba> wow, chrome already gain 10% of the market
1454 2010-12-18 18:07:05 <MT`AwAy> I don't even know what the problem is in IE, and never did any web dev with IE
1455 2010-12-18 18:07:24 <ne0futur> same here ;(
1456 2010-12-18 18:07:31 <MT`AwAy> anyway
1457 2010-12-18 18:07:36 <MT`AwAy> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin.kml <- this is worth clicking
1458 2010-12-18 18:07:37 <ne0futur> what javascript library are you using for the website ?
1459 2010-12-18 18:07:41 <MT`AwAy> bitcoins users across the world :)
1460 2010-12-18 18:07:49 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: I have no idea
1461 2010-12-18 18:07:52 <MT`AwAy> I didn't do the website
1462 2010-12-18 18:08:03 <ne0futur> MT`AwAy: i m pretty you can find a freelancer on http://www.freelancer.com/affiliates/neofutur/
1463 2010-12-18 18:08:09 <ne0futur> who can fix this for 30 $
1464 2010-12-18 18:08:32 <ne0futur> MT`AwAy: better use serious js libraries like jquery ou scriptaculous
1465 2010-12-18 18:08:39 <ne0futur> they manage cross browser javascript
1466 2010-12-18 18:08:56 <omglolbbq> slush_cz, is there a specific reason why the average time to find a block in the pool is over 18 hours instead of the 4-5 hours expected with this hashrate?
1467 2010-12-18 18:08:59 <ne0futur> homemade javascript always leed to weird problems killing your business
1468 2010-12-18 18:09:02 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: I'm not the one doing the site
1469 2010-12-18 18:09:11 <MT`AwAy> so I don't really care about js libs, as long as it works
1470 2010-12-18 18:09:23 <ne0futur> but you loose customers
1471 2010-12-18 18:09:27 <MT`AwAy> I think whoever did kalyhost was using jquery
1472 2010-12-18 18:09:32 <ne0futur> i d care if I were you :p
1473 2010-12-18 18:09:43 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: we have a new version of the site being done with real pros
1474 2010-12-18 18:10:13 <MT`AwAy> of all the people to whom I showed the current site, no one wanted to work on that
1475 2010-12-18 18:10:52 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: I don't think that's bitcoiners around the world
1476 2010-12-18 18:11:19 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: that's geoip location of all the addresses reported by bitcoin clients across the bitcoin network
1477 2010-12-18 18:11:27 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: We just found next block :)
1478 2010-12-18 18:11:35 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: No, there is no reason. It is statistics
1479 2010-12-18 18:11:52 <arcatan> uname -a
1480 2010-12-18 18:11:58 <ne0futur> i m in peu and my bitcoin clients are all in france :p
1481 2010-12-18 18:12:03 <arcatan> whoops, wrong window
1482 2010-12-18 18:12:06 <ne0futur> s/peu/peru/
1483 2010-12-18 18:12:14 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: Why you did not ask when we found block after 700 shares? It is exactly the same anomaly as long time :)
1484 2010-12-18 18:12:36 <MT`AwAy> ne0futur: hosting centers are located in big cities/etc, here we can see a worldwide spread
1485 2010-12-18 18:12:43 <MT`AwAy> well, almost world wide
1486 2010-12-18 18:12:47 <MT`AwAy> nobody in north korea :(
1487 2010-12-18 18:13:23 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: And you count 'average time' with _current_ cluster performance. It is not fair
1488 2010-12-18 18:13:37 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: We crossed 2ghash before few hours
1489 2010-12-18 18:13:40 <ne0futur> MT`AwAy: http://www.freelancer.com/rss/affiliatejob_neofutur_Javascript.xml
1490 2010-12-18 18:14:00 <ne0futur> everyday i see this kind of projects , fixing browser pb with bad js , for 30 $
1491 2010-12-18 18:14:51 <ne0futur> and there are trusted frelancers, with tenth of recommendations and years the website
1492 2010-12-18 18:15:07 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Your map is definitely cool! I'm going to spread that. It has great psychicall effect
1493 2010-12-18 18:15:21 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: about to post to forum here
1494 2010-12-18 18:15:21 <MT`AwAy> :p
1495 2010-12-18 18:15:25 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: That there are plenty bitcoiners around
1496 2010-12-18 18:15:31 <omglolbbq> slush_cz, im not asking on the 700 shares because i just calculated average, currently it's barely over 2000mhash, but it's been close to 3000 aswell a lot
1497 2010-12-18 18:15:40 <omglolbbq> i just found it typical :)
1498 2010-12-18 18:16:14 <omglolbbq> i also posted the question on the forum topic, maybe other users wonder the same, if you wantt to reply there it may be helpfull to others, if you dont want to i'll remove the post :)
1499 2010-12-18 18:16:21 <slush_cz> definitely not typical. I mined first block almost alone with my 5970
1500 2010-12-18 18:17:36 TD_ has joined
1501 2010-12-18 18:18:14 TD_ is now known as TD[home]
1502 2010-12-18 18:18:22 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: I won't delete that, because it is probably question interested by many people. But it is just luck & statistics. I had teoretical average rate on 5970 block per day and sometimes I did not find a block for four days.
1503 2010-12-18 18:18:24 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2346.0
1504 2010-12-18 18:18:38 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: Ask ArtForz for his experiences :)
1505 2010-12-18 18:20:55 Granttt has joined
1506 2010-12-18 18:21:40 <EvanR> whats the official link to the map?
1507 2010-12-18 18:21:42 <jgarzik> Kiba: I am definitely open to new pastecoin features
1508 2010-12-18 18:22:19 <MT`AwAy> EvanR: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin.kml <- this map ?
1509 2010-12-18 18:23:02 <MT`AwAy> http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin_big.png <- or this one ? :D
1510 2010-12-18 18:23:39 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: it sure come from around the world
1511 2010-12-18 18:23:44 Grantt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1512 2010-12-18 18:23:45 <Kiba> or perhaps any place with an internet connection?
1513 2010-12-18 18:24:05 <Kiba> maybe some of them are hijacked computer
1514 2010-12-18 18:24:15 manveru has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1515 2010-12-18 18:25:33 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: even if some are hijacked, if you look from a bit afar it shouldn't make a difference
1516 2010-12-18 18:25:42 <MT`AwAy> http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin.png <- this one is probably the best
1517 2010-12-18 18:25:42 <MT`AwAy> :p
1518 2010-12-18 18:25:58 <MT`AwAy> oh
1519 2010-12-18 18:26:02 <MT`AwAy> one user of bitcoin 0.3.1
1520 2010-12-18 18:26:40 <Kiba> so
1521 2010-12-18 18:26:42 <Kiba> bitcoin
1522 2010-12-18 18:26:53 <Kiba> basically can't be shut down
1523 2010-12-18 18:26:59 <MT`AwAy> :)
1524 2010-12-18 18:27:00 <Kiba> becase bitcoin is used by people all over the wrold
1525 2010-12-18 18:27:02 <craiova> how is that map done?
1526 2010-12-18 18:27:13 <Kiba> 1200 bitcoin nodes
1527 2010-12-18 18:27:37 <Kiba> bitcoin is primary a mind virus
1528 2010-12-18 18:27:49 <Kiba> and bitcoin nodes
1529 2010-12-18 18:27:51 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: 6485 nodes currently, and ~25% accepting connections
1530 2010-12-18 18:27:55 <Kiba> are a physical manifestation of that?
1531 2010-12-18 18:28:08 <Kiba> well
1532 2010-12-18 18:28:10 <craiova> including those that use proxy or tor?
1533 2010-12-18 18:28:12 <Kiba> maybe not phyiscal
1534 2010-12-18 18:28:15 <MT`AwAy> (I haven't finished to scan the network, I didn't expect it to be that big)
1535 2010-12-18 18:28:24 [Noodles] has joined
1536 2010-12-18 18:28:32 <Cusipzzz> expect them to (try) to shut down points where btc is traded for USD, EUR, etc. but actual BTC..
1537 2010-12-18 18:28:39 <Cusipzzz> nah
1538 2010-12-18 18:28:57 <MT`AwAy> oh
1539 2010-12-18 18:29:05 <MT`AwAy> ~32% accepting connections
1540 2010-12-18 18:30:24 Lysacor has joined
1541 2010-12-18 18:30:39 <Lysacor> ;;bc;stats
1542 2010-12-18 18:30:39 <gribble> Error: "bc;stats" is not a valid command.
1543 2010-12-18 18:30:46 <Lysacor> ;;bc,stats
1544 2010-12-18 18:30:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98241 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 542 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 5 hours, 57 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14197.64687214
1545 2010-12-18 18:30:52 * Kiba imagine mass civil disobidence
1546 2010-12-18 18:33:08 <MT`AwAy> I'm adding a quick json api
1547 2010-12-18 18:33:48 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting <- here
1548 2010-12-18 18:34:07 <Kiba> if you know the right node, you can do a doublespend attack on the nodes?
1549 2010-12-18 18:35:25 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: yes, you could send a transaction to yourself to mining.bitcoin.cz & artforz.ath.cx while sending a spending transaction to the merchant's web server (usually it's hosting his bitcoin server)
1550 2010-12-18 18:35:37 hundfred has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1551 2010-12-18 18:35:38 <MT`AwAy> chances are the transaction sent to artforz will be included in the next block
1552 2010-12-18 18:36:37 <Kiba> unless the merchant is connected to many nodes at once?
1553 2010-12-18 18:36:55 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: only if one of the nodes he's connected to solves the next block
1554 2010-12-18 18:37:11 <MT`AwAy> and it's also a question of lag
1555 2010-12-18 18:37:28 <MT`AwAy> you could ping flood his server a bit when sending the transaction so it takes more time for him to report it and receive the other transaction
1556 2010-12-18 18:37:44 <Kiba> lot of way to attack a merchant
1557 2010-12-18 18:37:51 <MT`AwAy> yep
1558 2010-12-18 18:37:56 <MT`AwAy> if he do not require confirmations
1559 2010-12-18 18:38:13 <MT`AwAy> 32.9% of the nodes I scanned are accepting connections :D
1560 2010-12-18 18:38:17 <Kiba> a merchant is more likely to use a payment processor, right?
1561 2010-12-18 18:38:38 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: probably
1562 2010-12-18 18:38:53 <MT`AwAy> it depends on who is the merchant :)
1563 2010-12-18 18:39:03 <MT`AwAy> (I implemented my own payment system because I felt like it)
1564 2010-12-18 18:44:02 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: You have my response on forum
1565 2010-12-18 18:44:20 <Kiba> so...
1566 2010-12-18 18:44:29 <Kiba> nobody is doing anything with BitDNS codewise
1567 2010-12-18 18:44:33 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: Sorry to being angry but I have to respon to this question again and again.
1568 2010-12-18 18:44:41 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: wait for me to finish my bitcoin client
1569 2010-12-18 18:44:41 <MT`AwAy> :D
1570 2010-12-18 18:44:53 <MT`AwAy> (exploring inter-client communications is part of my work for my bitcoin client)
1571 2010-12-18 18:45:09 <slush_cz> omglolbbq: Unfortunately there is absolutely no way how I can demonstrate I'm not cheating. I call it 'syndrom of jealous girlfriend' :-)
1572 2010-12-18 18:45:13 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting <- over 7000 nodes!
1573 2010-12-18 18:48:35 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Your google map is abolutely ingenious! Now I see I'm not alone in Czech Rep!
1574 2010-12-18 18:48:52 <MT`AwAy> :D
1575 2010-12-18 18:49:11 <MT`AwAy> and you even know the ips of your friends
1576 2010-12-18 18:49:16 <Cusipzzz> lol
1577 2010-12-18 18:49:22 <slush_cz> I know about one guy in Ostrava, but there dozens more users
1578 2010-12-18 18:49:42 <MT`AwAy> on the map I found myself on the first try (not that many nodes in japan)
1579 2010-12-18 18:49:46 <Cusipzzz> send them micropayment and note for beer-night
1580 2010-12-18 18:49:56 nova has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1581 2010-12-18 18:49:59 <slush_cz> Great idea!
1582 2010-12-18 18:50:03 <genjix> MT your map is soooooo cool
1583 2010-12-18 18:50:08 <MT`AwAy> XD
1584 2010-12-18 18:50:23 <genjix> suggestion: make the dots slightly larger.
1585 2010-12-18 18:50:30 <MT`AwAy> yeah, I thought about it
1586 2010-12-18 18:50:34 <Cusipzzz> yes, very cool..will be interesting to track the growth..archive old versions
1587 2010-12-18 18:50:36 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: It is absolute cool. I will make czech info website and send 0.01 to all czech bitcoiners :-D
1588 2010-12-18 18:50:42 <Cusipzzz> then can create animated .gif or something
1589 2010-12-18 18:50:42 <MT`AwAy> but then cramped areas are just plain red
1590 2010-12-18 18:50:52 <genjix> MT`AwAy: do what Cusipzzz just said
1591 2010-12-18 18:50:58 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Yes, definitely store timestamped files
1592 2010-12-18 18:51:02 <genjix> make logs of it every week
1593 2010-12-18 18:51:02 <MT`AwAy> :p
1594 2010-12-18 18:51:08 <Cusipzzz> yes =)
1595 2010-12-18 18:51:11 <MT`AwAy> I could do that easily
1596 2010-12-18 18:51:20 <MT`AwAy> just save the json file every week
1597 2010-12-18 18:51:24 <MT`AwAy> then anyone can build anything with it
1598 2010-12-18 18:51:25 <MT`AwAy> :p
1599 2010-12-18 18:51:28 <genjix> if bitcoin becomes big in future then this would be the most valuable data
1600 2010-12-18 18:51:39 <MT`AwAy> heh
1601 2010-12-18 18:51:51 <MT`AwAy> anyway I haven't finished to crawl the whole bitcoin P2P network
1602 2010-12-18 18:52:07 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: smsz.net looks like a neat service
1603 2010-12-18 18:52:10 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting <- right now I know of 7176 nodes
1604 2010-12-18 18:52:19 <MT`AwAy> jgarzik: and it works for real ;)
1605 2010-12-18 18:52:33 <MT`AwAy> oh
1606 2010-12-18 18:52:33 <MT`AwAy> btw
1607 2010-12-18 18:52:42 <MT`AwAy> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin:Contributors_Award <- the Bitcoin.it contributors award is currently 100 BTC !
1608 2010-12-18 18:52:59 <genjix> didn't someone else have another similar sms system?
1609 2010-12-18 18:53:01 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Will you provide fresh kml after each scanning?
1610 2010-12-18 18:53:02 <MT`AwAy> to be shared after january 31st between contributors of the wiki
1611 2010-12-18 18:53:06 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: yep
1612 2010-12-18 18:53:11 <slush_cz> cool
1613 2010-12-18 18:53:23 <Cusipzzz> v cool
1614 2010-12-18 18:53:25 <slush_cz> 28 bitcoiners in my town. 28x more than I expected
1615 2010-12-18 18:53:30 <Cusipzzz> lol
1616 2010-12-18 18:53:35 <genjix> slush_cz: it's not too accurate
1617 2010-12-18 18:53:40 <xelister> MT`AwAy: it works for which countries?
1618 2010-12-18 18:53:46 <slush_cz> I know, many ISPs have central point
1619 2010-12-18 18:53:50 <MT`AwAy> xelister: I use maxmind geoip free city database
1620 2010-12-18 18:54:00 <xelister> erm
1621 2010-12-18 18:54:06 <genjix> MT`AwAy: will you upload a new pic with slightly larger dots?
1622 2010-12-18 18:54:13 <slush_cz> But I know which ISPs are on which addresses and yes, those are local
1623 2010-12-18 18:54:17 <genjix> i want to put it on a forum somewhere
1624 2010-12-18 18:54:19 <xelister> the smsz.net send for BTC, works for SMSes to which countires (phones)?
1625 2010-12-18 18:54:27 <MT`AwAy> oh
1626 2010-12-18 18:54:32 <MT`AwAy> xelister: it should work with all countries
1627 2010-12-18 18:54:35 <genjix> xelister: intl
1628 2010-12-18 18:54:39 <xelister> orly?
1629 2010-12-18 18:54:50 <genjix> "use your bitcoins to send SMS messages worldwide!"
1630 2010-12-18 18:54:53 <genjix> lern2read
1631 2010-12-18 18:54:55 <genjix> :)
1632 2010-12-18 18:54:57 <MT`AwAy> it even works for docomo japanese mobile phones (other gateway fail sending to those all the time)
1633 2010-12-18 18:55:12 <xelister> genjix: yeah its too nice to be true? ;)
1634 2010-12-18 18:55:23 <MT`AwAy> xelister: if you want I can add your mobile phone number as "from"
1635 2010-12-18 18:55:27 <xelister> will the SMS arrive to Nigeria or Iceland
1636 2010-12-18 18:55:31 <MT`AwAy> so people can reply to you
1637 2010-12-18 18:55:36 <genjix> no OpenID for signing up? :(
1638 2010-12-18 18:55:48 <MT`AwAy> genjix: this site was made in less than 1 hour
1639 2010-12-18 18:55:48 <MT`AwAy> :p
1640 2010-12-18 18:55:53 <genjix> ok :p
1641 2010-12-18 18:55:54 <Cusipzzz> that's very cool
1642 2010-12-18 18:56:08 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting <- will "total" go over 9000 ?
1643 2010-12-18 18:56:38 <Kiba> wee!
1644 2010-12-18 18:56:42 <Kiba> there's two in my town
1645 2010-12-18 18:56:43 <Kiba> lol
1646 2010-12-18 18:57:11 AndChat has joined
1647 2010-12-18 18:57:17 <genjix> Kiba: no there's not.
1648 2010-12-18 18:57:24 <genjix> it's not accurate.
1649 2010-12-18 18:57:51 * MT`AwAy makes the scanning twice as fast by reducing the connect timeout
1650 2010-12-18 18:58:09 <Kiba> Washington DC
1651 2010-12-18 18:58:15 <slush_cz> what happen when I send payment to IP and no client will be ever?
1652 2010-12-18 18:58:20 <Kiba> have lot of....bitcoin node?!
1653 2010-12-18 18:58:55 <genjix> kk back to coding. cya!
1654 2010-12-18 18:58:56 genjix has left ()
1655 2010-12-18 18:59:11 <Cusipzzz> they your coins lost in cyberspace =)
1656 2010-12-18 18:59:46 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: since you need to explicitly enable acceptation of ip transactions, you're probably not going to be able to send anything
1657 2010-12-18 18:59:57 <MT`AwAy> (most people are probably with ip transactions off)
1658 2010-12-18 19:00:13 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Receiving is not enabled by default?
1659 2010-12-18 19:00:31 <slush_cz> I didnt know it. So it is unusable for my idea :(
1660 2010-12-18 19:00:35 <MT`AwAy> :p
1661 2010-12-18 19:00:59 <MT`AwAy> I know it's not enabled by default for bitcoind, I guess the gui client is similar
1662 2010-12-18 19:01:08 <slush_cz> So client should hide this feature as it makes only misunderstanding
1663 2010-12-18 19:01:26 <Cusipzzz> ...i don't even see the option on my client
1664 2010-12-18 19:01:51 <slush_cz> do anybody here have standard GUI client with port open? Tell me IP, I can try it
1665 2010-12-18 19:01:57 <slush_cz> with standard settings
1666 2010-12-18 19:02:20 <Cusipzzz> yes, i do
1667 2010-12-18 19:02:35 <Cusipzzz> but using vpn, might cause prob w/ip xfer?
1668 2010-12-18 19:02:47 Abhish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1669 2010-12-18 19:02:52 <slush_cz> tell me IP
1670 2010-12-18 19:03:03 <Cusipzzz> 94.75.220.253
1671 2010-12-18 19:03:04 <slush_cz> I will try to connect using telnet, if there is node sitting on
1672 2010-12-18 19:03:14 <slush_cz> don't be affraid :-D
1673 2010-12-18 19:03:42 <Cusipzzz> you may connect to something, but will not be my computer, lol
1674 2010-12-18 19:03:49 <Kiba> New Hampshire suprisingly have very little bitcoin nodes
1675 2010-12-18 19:03:50 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: Nothing here. port closed
1676 2010-12-18 19:04:05 <Cusipzzz> ya, ports are not forwarded on this vpn, sry
1677 2010-12-18 19:04:12 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: I know. so it is useless to send you IP transaction
1678 2010-12-18 19:04:17 <slush_cz> anybody else??
1679 2010-12-18 19:04:17 <Cusipzzz> ya :(
1680 2010-12-18 19:04:29 <Kiba> maybe some bitcoiners should invade New Hampshire!
1681 2010-12-18 19:04:31 AndChat has quit (!~xulrunner@74-44-72-44.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1682 2010-12-18 19:04:40 <slush_cz> Hi guys, I'm offering 0.01BTC for open port :)
1683 2010-12-18 19:05:08 <slush_cz> its funny that I have bunch of new registration after every block is found
1684 2010-12-18 19:07:17 <dsg> slush_cz: I don't have GUI client, but I remember that IP transactions were disabled some time ago due to security concerns
1685 2010-12-18 19:08:45 RichardG_ has joined
1686 2010-12-18 19:08:45 RichardG_ has quit (Changing host)
1687 2010-12-18 19:08:45 RichardG_ has joined
1688 2010-12-18 19:08:46 RichardG_ has quit (Excess Flood)
1689 2010-12-18 19:08:56 delta9 has joined
1690 2010-12-18 19:08:59 <slush_cz> dsg: Oh, thanks for info. I think it should be definitely disabled in GUI
1691 2010-12-18 19:09:05 <Cusipzzz> i'd think most people would be behind router w/non forwarded port anyway
1692 2010-12-18 19:09:25 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: Yes, but it is possible to check before payment.
1693 2010-12-18 19:09:36 <slush_cz> Cusipzzz: And all ppl listed on MT`AwAy map have open port :)
1694 2010-12-18 19:09:48 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: not
1695 2010-12-18 19:09:54 RichardG_ has joined
1696 2010-12-18 19:09:55 <MT`AwAy> currently 34%
1697 2010-12-18 19:09:55 RichardG_ has quit (Excess Flood)
1698 2010-12-18 19:09:58 <MT`AwAy> have port open
1699 2010-12-18 19:10:02 <MT`AwAy> (quite more than I expected)
1700 2010-12-18 19:10:14 <TD[home]> it could be higher if the client supported UPnP
1701 2010-12-18 19:10:50 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1702 2010-12-18 19:11:18 RichardG_ has joined
1703 2010-12-18 19:11:19 RichardG_ has quit (Changing host)
1704 2010-12-18 19:11:19 RichardG_ has joined
1705 2010-12-18 19:11:20 RichardG_ has quit (Excess Flood)
1706 2010-12-18 19:11:54 <MT`AwAy> ok let's try that
1707 2010-12-18 19:12:01 <MT`AwAy> code uploading
1708 2010-12-18 19:12:21 <MT`AwAy> oh
1709 2010-12-18 19:12:25 <MT`AwAy> back to 33.6%
1710 2010-12-18 19:12:38 RichardG_ has joined
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1712 2010-12-18 19:12:38 RichardG_ has joined
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1714 2010-12-18 19:13:59 RichardG_ has joined
1715 2010-12-18 19:14:00 RichardG_ has quit (Excess Flood)
1716 2010-12-18 19:14:19 RichardG_ has joined
1717 2010-12-18 19:14:20 <MT`AwAy> oops
1718 2010-12-18 19:14:20 RichardG_ has quit (Excess Flood)
1719 2010-12-18 19:14:30 <MT`AwAy> forgot to actually send the sql query
1720 2010-12-18 19:14:30 <MT`AwAy> xD
1721 2010-12-18 19:15:11 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: now a new game, of all the ips, locate the governement-owned ones
1722 2010-12-18 19:15:42 RichardG_ has joined
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1724 2010-12-18 19:15:42 RichardG_ has joined
1725 2010-12-18 19:16:46 <MT`AwAy> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml <- new url !
1726 2010-12-18 19:16:59 <MT`AwAy> red = not accepting connections
1727 2010-12-18 19:17:03 <MT`AwAy> green = accepting connections
1728 2010-12-18 19:17:06 <MT`AwAy> and white = not tested yet
1729 2010-12-18 19:17:18 <Kiba> blue
1730 2010-12-18 19:17:21 <Kiba> would be a better color
1731 2010-12-18 19:17:25 <Kiba> red blue and green!
1732 2010-12-18 19:18:44 <MT`AwAy> well, white is just here until I scan all the backlog
1733 2010-12-18 19:18:53 <MT`AwAy> in 12 hours there will not be anymore white
1734 2010-12-18 19:19:13 <MT`AwAy> mh strange
1735 2010-12-18 19:19:32 <MT`AwAy> in my google maps I cannot uncheck the "unknown" folder nor see its content (too big maybe?)
1736 2010-12-18 19:20:24 <sgornick> mt: do you have a breakdown count on those red, green and white?
1737 2010-12-18 19:20:53 <MT`AwAy> sgornick: https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting
1738 2010-12-18 19:21:03 <MT`AwAy> red=down green=up white=unknown
1739 2010-12-18 19:21:26 <sgornick> mt: close enough, awesome!
1740 2010-12-18 19:21:33 <MT`AwAy> the kml file has a 30 minutes server-side cache, however the "accepting" json is realtime
1741 2010-12-18 19:22:46 <MT`AwAy> (I'm not going to generate 1.5MB of xml each time someone clicks)
1742 2010-12-18 19:23:10 craiova has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1743 2010-12-18 19:23:23 <Cusipzzz> lol
1744 2010-12-18 19:25:34 <MT`AwAy> well, at this rate it means we are likely to have ~2200 reachable nodes
1745 2010-12-18 19:31:55 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1746 2010-12-18 19:33:37 <Lysacor> lol I see my IP on your map :P
1747 2010-12-18 19:33:58 <Lysacor> I need to get more people in my area to join in... too few in the DFW area...
1748 2010-12-18 19:34:45 <MT`AwAy> :p
1749 2010-12-18 19:34:57 <MT`AwAy> what color is your ip ?
1750 2010-12-18 19:35:06 <Lysacor> green, I am definitely accepting connections
1751 2010-12-18 19:35:13 <MT`AwAy> :p
1752 2010-12-18 19:35:17 <MT`AwAy> so you got a visit from my server ;)
1753 2010-12-18 19:35:28 <Lysacor> yep, apparently so lol
1754 2010-12-18 19:35:49 darrob has joined
1755 2010-12-18 19:36:10 <Lysacor> it wasn't doing anything too nefarious I hope
1756 2010-12-18 19:36:14 <Lysacor> lol
1757 2010-12-18 19:36:26 <MT`AwAy> and your version is displayed if you click your green thingie
1758 2010-12-18 19:36:58 <Lysacor> yep, that is right...
1759 2010-12-18 19:37:13 <MT`AwAy> :p
1760 2010-12-18 19:37:38 <TD[home]> does anyone know if there's a protocol implementation in java? i'm pretty sure the answer is no, but just in case
1761 2010-12-18 19:38:10 phuzion has joined
1762 2010-12-18 19:40:12 <Kiba> TD[home]: yes, there's a java client
1763 2010-12-18 19:40:23 <TD[home]> oh? any idea where I can find it?
1764 2010-12-18 19:40:24 redengin has joined
1765 2010-12-18 19:41:42 <TD[home]> ah i think i see it
1766 2010-12-18 19:42:21 <TD[home]> Kiba: are you thinking of http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin-client/
1767 2010-12-18 19:42:33 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
1768 2010-12-18 19:42:36 TD[home] is now known as TD
1769 2010-12-18 19:43:12 <Kiba> yeah
1770 2010-12-18 19:43:31 <TD> ok, i meant a p2p protocol client rather than an rpc protocol client
1771 2010-12-18 19:44:33 * Kiba shrugs
1772 2010-12-18 19:45:00 <MT`AwAy> XD
1773 2010-12-18 19:48:10 <MT`AwAy> http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin.png <- bigger plots, and green
1774 2010-12-18 19:48:54 redengin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1775 2010-12-18 19:48:57 <xelister> MT`AwAy: lol... there are few in the ocean.
1776 2010-12-18 19:49:16 <MT`AwAy> it's on (tiny) islands
1777 2010-12-18 19:49:21 <MT`AwAy> look at the google map version
1778 2010-12-18 19:50:47 <Kiba> Hawiaian islands
1779 2010-12-18 19:50:55 <Kiba> I suspect with seasteading, we'll seeing them in the ocean
1780 2010-12-18 19:51:08 <Kiba> more of them in the ocean
1781 2010-12-18 19:51:59 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: I suspect geoip will not provide infos for people doing seasteading
1782 2010-12-18 19:52:23 <MT`AwAy> btw to download the full database (2MB): curl https://smsz.net/btcStats/full >full.json (don't click the link, your browser will probably not like it)
1783 2010-12-18 19:53:05 <ColonelPanic1> just pops up as a file download
1784 2010-12-18 19:53:23 <ColonelPanic1> on firefox 3.6.12
1785 2010-12-18 19:54:21 <MT`AwAy> well anyway
1786 2010-12-18 19:54:25 <MT`AwAy> it's a bunch of json data
1787 2010-12-18 19:54:37 <MT`AwAy> only useful for people who want to keep archives
1788 2010-12-18 19:54:38 <MT`AwAy> :)
1789 2010-12-18 19:55:02 lolcat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1790 2010-12-18 19:55:09 <ColonelPanic1> I just had to click it because you said it wouldn't work
1791 2010-12-18 19:55:56 <MT`AwAy> guess firefox became intelligent
1792 2010-12-18 19:57:10 <ColonelPanic1> it detects it as "application/json"
1793 2010-12-18 19:57:23 <ColonelPanic1> clever girl
1794 2010-12-18 19:58:02 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1795 2010-12-18 19:58:24 <MT`AwAy> https://dump.bitcoin.it/misc/201012/ <- backups here
1796 2010-12-18 19:58:25 <MT`AwAy> daily
1797 2010-12-18 19:58:29 <MT`AwAy> :)
1798 2010-12-18 19:59:28 <bencoder> hehe mine's in the wrong country :P I suspect my host assigned ip addresses a bit randomly, since the company i'm with is local to the uk, but this particular box is over in a datacenter in the US, but on the map the ip is located in their UK datacenter.
1799 2010-12-18 20:00:30 <MT`AwAy> one bitcoin user in Terceira
1800 2010-12-18 20:00:55 <Cusipzzz> where?
1801 2010-12-18 20:01:01 <MT`AwAy> bencoder: Maxmind GeoIP focuses on accuracy for private users location
1802 2010-12-18 20:01:13 <MT`AwAy> http://l.nf/0k5
1803 2010-12-18 20:01:16 <MT`AwAy> there
1804 2010-12-18 20:01:58 <bencoder> MT`AwAy: yeah, wasn't complaining, was just interesting :)
1805 2010-12-18 20:02:12 <MT`AwAy> that's a known issue :)
1806 2010-12-18 20:02:21 <bencoder> it's pretty close to my actual location in the uk in fact, so it's kinda more accurate than possible :P
1807 2010-12-18 20:02:27 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting <- reached 500 "up" nodes
1808 2010-12-18 20:02:33 <Cusipzzz> that is nuts
1809 2010-12-18 20:03:42 <Cusipzzz> Terceira...want to go there
1810 2010-12-18 20:03:48 <MT`AwAy> :p
1811 2010-12-18 20:04:03 <MT`AwAy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terceira_Island looks nice
1812 2010-12-18 20:04:04 <Cusipzzz> seems like a good spot for BTC island, lol
1813 2010-12-18 20:04:08 <Cusipzzz> ya
1814 2010-12-18 20:04:38 <dsg> '
1815 2010-12-18 20:05:14 <Cusipzzz> doesn't say official currency..an opening =)
1816 2010-12-18 20:05:55 <ColonelPanic1> fuck yeah acores
1817 2010-12-18 20:06:03 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/version <- the bitcoin network ecosystem
1818 2010-12-18 20:07:35 ColonelPanic1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1819 2010-12-18 20:07:44 <Granttt> surprise ;) Terceira also is one of the islands where US has a military base
1820 2010-12-18 20:08:55 <Cusipzzz> shocking
1821 2010-12-18 20:09:26 <slush_cz> CIA is watching us
1822 2010-12-18 20:09:50 <Cusipzzz> ob an air force guy generating BTCs on the .mil IP address
1823 2010-12-18 20:09:54 <Cusipzzz> prob*
1824 2010-12-18 20:09:59 ColonelPanic1 has joined
1825 2010-12-18 20:10:09 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/nodes <- total number of nodes on the bitcoin network during the past 24 hours
1826 2010-12-18 20:10:39 <Cusipzzz> who else on that island has the interwebs?
1827 2010-12-18 20:10:49 <Cusipzzz> can't be cheap
1828 2010-12-18 20:11:00 <MT`AwAy> the ISP is a end user portuguese provider
1829 2010-12-18 20:11:18 <Cusipzzz> hmm
1830 2010-12-18 20:11:32 <Cusipzzz> open port? want to send a msg =)
1831 2010-12-18 20:11:45 <MT`AwAy> dunno yet
1832 2010-12-18 20:11:48 <MT`AwAy> the marker is white
1833 2010-12-18 20:11:50 <Cusipzzz> k
1834 2010-12-18 20:11:55 <MT`AwAy> I got more than 5000 nodes to scan
1835 2010-12-18 20:11:56 <MT`AwAy> :D
1836 2010-12-18 20:12:08 <MT`AwAy> it's going to take 12~24 hours to finish that
1837 2010-12-18 20:12:28 <Cusipzzz> maybe that guy has an extra room to rent...
1838 2010-12-18 20:12:32 <MT`AwAy> when I saw ~1200 users on the irc channel I didn't expect the network to be that big
1839 2010-12-18 20:16:28 theymos has joined
1840 2010-12-18 20:18:08 <MT`AwAy> some nodes are reporting that they are connected to 1000 or more nodes
1841 2010-12-18 20:18:44 <theymos> Where is that reported?
1842 2010-12-18 20:19:06 <theymos> KnightMB's supernodes used to run like that. Maybe they still do.
1843 2010-12-18 20:19:23 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: How they can do that? Is it standard client?
1844 2010-12-18 20:19:38 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Many connections will be benefical for miners in future...
1845 2010-12-18 20:19:38 <MT`AwAy> not sure
1846 2010-12-18 20:19:44 <theymos> You can run with -maxconnections=x, but I don't know if there are that many /16 networks.
1847 2010-12-18 20:19:50 <MT`AwAy> in fact it might just be that they report stuff that is not the case
1848 2010-12-18 20:19:57 <slush_cz> I only occasionally crossed over 50 connections
1849 2010-12-18 20:21:10 <MT`AwAy> yeah, ok so they are probably not connected to 1000 hosts
1850 2010-12-18 20:21:56 <MT`AwAy> most nodes reply to getaddr with 50~250 addresses
1851 2010-12-18 20:22:03 <MT`AwAy> but some are replying with 1000 addr (the max)
1852 2010-12-18 20:22:46 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Where is maxconnection variable? --help don't show me anything similar
1853 2010-12-18 20:23:03 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: I have no idea, ask theymos ? :D
1854 2010-12-18 20:23:14 <theymos> It's an undocumented switch.
1855 2010-12-18 20:23:18 <slush_cz> oh, sorry :)
1856 2010-12-18 20:24:54 <slush_cz> theymos: thanks, I will try
1857 2010-12-18 20:25:33 <MT`AwAy> mh, we went <30% nodes accepting connections
1858 2010-12-18 20:26:16 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Not so unexpected. I thought it is under 10%. Many people don't know how or are technically unable to open port
1859 2010-12-18 20:26:47 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: I was surprised when I saw the initial value too
1860 2010-12-18 20:27:11 <MT`AwAy> http://geo.magicaltux.net/bitcoin.png <- updated
1861 2010-12-18 20:27:21 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: This only indicates that bitcoin is full of technically skilled people :)
1862 2010-12-18 20:27:44 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: maybe we can sort tech skills by ISP
1863 2010-12-18 20:27:58 <MT`AwAy> since the ips are sorted, I might be currently scanning a "bad skills isp"
1864 2010-12-18 20:28:03 <slush_cz> red means they were online today?
1865 2010-12-18 20:28:04 <MT`AwAy> explaining why the rate falls
1866 2010-12-18 20:28:05 <MT`AwAy> D
1867 2010-12-18 20:28:20 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: a dot means there's something there during the past 24 hours
1868 2010-12-18 20:28:27 <MT`AwAy> if the dot is green, it means I could connect to it
1869 2010-12-18 20:28:28 <slush_cz> thx
1870 2010-12-18 20:28:45 <MT`AwAy> I still have 5797 hosts to test
1871 2010-12-18 20:28:48 <theymos> Doesn't getaddr just trigger a response with "addresses that have broadcast an addr in the last 3 hours"?
1872 2010-12-18 20:29:01 <MT`AwAy> theymos: I didn't check the details
1873 2010-12-18 20:29:05 <MT`AwAy> probably anyway
1874 2010-12-18 20:29:33 <MT`AwAy> still, I found it weird that only a few hosts have 1000 addr in reply to getaddr
1875 2010-12-18 20:30:41 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'm checking 10 hosts/minute
1876 2010-12-18 20:31:06 <MT`AwAy> it'll take 9 hours and 40 minutes to do the remaining 5797 hosts (hoping I don't find more)
1877 2010-12-18 20:31:19 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: They are geographically close?
1878 2010-12-18 20:31:35 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: who/what?
1879 2010-12-18 20:31:50 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: I think you can rise your ratio. Connection to one node does not affect another.
1880 2010-12-18 20:32:08 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: it will affect my isp detection of port scanners
1881 2010-12-18 20:32:09 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Those 1000 addr nodes, if they are near
1882 2010-12-18 20:32:17 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Oh :-D
1883 2010-12-18 20:32:36 <MT`AwAy> for the 1000 addr nodes I don't know, haven't looked much into it
1884 2010-12-18 20:32:48 <MT`AwAy> anyway could be a BNE (Bitcoin Node Explorer)
1885 2010-12-18 20:34:05 <MT`AwAy> oh one last thing
1886 2010-12-18 20:34:23 <MT`AwAy> for those who want bitcoins without mining, you /will/ earn bitcoins by contributing on the bitcoin.it wiki :)
1887 2010-12-18 20:34:39 <theymos> MT`AwAy: On your fallback nodes page, why do you promote peers that are running the latest version? Bitcoin versions typically have only minor changes. I don't bother upgrading most of the time.
1888 2010-12-18 20:35:04 [Noodles] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1889 2010-12-18 20:35:17 <MT`AwAy> theymos: even if those are minor changes, sometimes it can be an important difference (like that denial of service fix in 0.3.19)
1890 2010-12-18 20:35:34 <theymos> I won't use that "fix" even when I do upgrade...
1891 2010-12-18 20:36:00 <MT`AwAy> anyway I promote "up to date nodes" as usually non-updated nodes are abandonned nodes which are eventually going down soon
1892 2010-12-18 20:36:17 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Agree with theymos. My node is up >99.99, I don't want to reinstall every time
1893 2010-12-18 20:36:39 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Only major changes and security issues
1894 2010-12-18 20:37:02 <MT`AwAy> anyway, the fallback nodes pages is probably not going to be used much once I finish the thing I'm doing
1895 2010-12-18 20:37:12 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/bootstrap
1896 2010-12-18 20:37:21 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Mainline developers didnt accept it?
1897 2010-12-18 20:37:49 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: no, I will provide pre-generated C code based on the data I get from my bitcoin nodes scanner
1898 2010-12-18 20:38:00 <MT`AwAy> ie. I will select all nodes that have been up for a long time on the same IP
1899 2010-12-18 20:38:11 <MT`AwAy> and generate the C++ source fragment automatically
1900 2010-12-18 20:38:19 <MT`AwAy> so each release will have freshly picked nodes :)
1901 2010-12-18 20:38:42 <MT`AwAy> (and not just a handful)
1902 2010-12-18 20:38:50 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Good, but still central point
1903 2010-12-18 20:39:01 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: the bitcoin source is downloaded by each user
1904 2010-12-18 20:39:09 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: I read paper before month about p2p bootstrapping
1905 2010-12-18 20:39:45 <slush_cz> As a network grows, it will be doable to make absolutely p2p bootstrap as fallback variant
1906 2010-12-18 20:39:45 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: and what did you get?
1907 2010-12-18 20:40:07 <theymos> The "scan entire IP space" method?
1908 2010-12-18 20:40:09 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Unfortunately I don't have paper here, it is laying somewhere in my office
1909 2010-12-18 20:40:16 <slush_cz> theymos: Yes, mix of
1910 2010-12-18 20:40:20 <MT`AwAy> oh, that
1911 2010-12-18 20:40:20 <MT`AwAy> :p
1912 2010-12-18 20:40:30 <slush_cz> It sounds crazy, but those guys made good work
1913 2010-12-18 20:40:39 <slush_cz> Not brute force
1914 2010-12-18 20:40:39 <MT`AwAy> well, I could do a simulation since I have the list of every single bitcoin client (and will know soon if they accept connections)
1915 2010-12-18 20:40:47 <slush_cz> Unfortunately I cannot remember to details :(
1916 2010-12-18 20:40:53 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: and ipv6
1917 2010-12-18 20:40:53 <MT`AwAy> ?
1918 2010-12-18 20:40:54 <MT`AwAy> :D
1919 2010-12-18 20:41:06 <MT`AwAy> going from a 32bits address space to a 128bits address space :D
1920 2010-12-18 20:41:17 <slush_cz> I know. Will look at the paper
1921 2010-12-18 20:41:31 <slush_cz> It was not using IPs, but domain addresses
1922 2010-12-18 20:41:39 <slush_cz> domain names
1923 2010-12-18 20:41:57 <MT`AwAy> mh
1924 2010-12-18 20:42:14 <MT`AwAy> domain names? how is that decentralized? :p
1925 2010-12-18 20:42:16 <slush_cz> sorry, I will look at it on Monday
1926 2010-12-18 20:42:20 <theymos> IP is centralized! The numbers are assigned by IANA.
1927 2010-12-18 20:42:45 <MT`AwAy> yep, but you could try to contact nodes by scanning random ips if your p2p software is used widely enough, but domain names?
1928 2010-12-18 20:43:00 <slush_cz> stop discussion, I don't remember :-)
1929 2010-12-18 20:43:05 <MT`AwAy> :p
1930 2010-12-18 20:43:12 <slush_cz> Will post it on monday
1931 2010-12-18 20:46:55 <Kiba> wee
1932 2010-12-18 20:47:04 <Kiba> I accumlated a total of 1700 posts over 6 months
1933 2010-12-18 20:49:40 <helmut> wow. I didn't expect getting secp256k1 into python to be a problem this big. ecdsa (curve not supported), M2Crypto (no feasible key import), openssl (functions not exported)
1934 2010-12-18 20:50:38 jon____ has joined
1935 2010-12-18 20:50:40 <MT`AwAy> helmut: can't you manually configure the curve ?
1936 2010-12-18 20:50:53 <MT`AwAy> http://www.secg.org/collateral/sec2_final.pdf <- the curve parameters
1937 2010-12-18 20:51:11 <helmut> MT`AwAy: with ecdsa probably
1938 2010-12-18 20:51:28 <helmut> MT`AwAy: the others support the curve (via openssl)
1939 2010-12-18 20:52:10 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I fear that I have too little insight into crypto to get this right
1940 2010-12-18 20:52:20 jon____ has quit (Client Quit)
1941 2010-12-18 20:52:27 <MT`AwAy> helmut: just copy/paste the curve parameters in the variables of the same name
1942 2010-12-18 20:52:27 <helmut> MT`AwAy: for verification this is not a big problem, but for key generation it does matter
1943 2010-12-18 20:52:27 <MT`AwAy> :D
1944 2010-12-18 20:52:39 <MT`AwAy> no, it doesn't matter for key generation
1945 2010-12-18 20:52:44 <MT`AwAy> it matters for *public* key generation
1946 2010-12-18 20:53:03 <MT`AwAy> generating a private key doesn't require to know anything except the number of bits
1947 2010-12-18 20:53:36 <helmut> well it matters. :-p
1948 2010-12-18 20:55:00 <helmut> I can probably resort to openssl for key generation though
1949 2010-12-18 20:55:18 <MT`AwAy> you can resort to /dev/urandom too
1950 2010-12-18 20:55:27 <MT`AwAy> just read 32 bytes and you got a private key
1951 2010-12-18 20:55:28 <MT`AwAy> :D
1952 2010-12-18 20:55:41 <helmut> ...
1953 2010-12-18 20:56:08 <helmut> what does the k mean?
1954 2010-12-18 20:56:26 AAA_awright_ has joined
1955 2010-12-18 20:56:49 <MT`AwAy> you don't want to care about that
1956 2010-12-18 20:57:11 <MT`AwAy> (two kinds of curve, the Koblitz curves and the Random curves)
1957 2010-12-18 20:57:43 <helmut> uhm. what's the difference to NIST256p?
1958 2010-12-18 20:57:47 <Kiba> hmm
1959 2010-12-18 20:57:48 <MT`AwAy> ?
1960 2010-12-18 20:58:06 <MT`AwAy> I don't know if NIST curves are r or k, and I don't care
1961 2010-12-18 20:58:10 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1962 2010-12-18 20:58:17 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1963 2010-12-18 20:58:22 <MT`AwAy> r/k only affects the way the curve parameters are generated
1964 2010-12-18 20:58:32 <MT`AwAy> they are written in this pdf, so you don't have to worry about that
1965 2010-12-18 20:58:48 <helmut> it's the closest curve provided with python-ecdsa
1966 2010-12-18 20:58:58 <MT`AwAy> it's not close at all
1967 2010-12-18 20:59:32 <helmut> yeah. that's what I feared.
1968 2010-12-18 20:59:57 <MT`AwAy> one bit difference will result in completly different results
1969 2010-12-18 21:00:25 <MT`AwAy> and ECC is still rather new :)
1970 2010-12-18 21:01:18 <helmut> yes.
1971 2010-12-18 21:01:39 <helmut> I was lucky to get into a seminar on dlp.
1972 2010-12-18 21:04:11 <MT`AwAy> anyway I'll got to sleep
1973 2010-12-18 21:04:14 <MT`AwAy> it's already 6 am
1974 2010-12-18 21:04:27 <MT`AwAy> been the whole night coding little dots on big maps
1975 2010-12-18 21:05:03 <helmut> what dots?
1976 2010-12-18 21:05:12 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2346.0 <- those dots
1977 2010-12-18 21:05:40 <helmut> wow :-)
1978 2010-12-18 21:05:55 <MT`AwAy> now, we know where bitcoin users are
1979 2010-12-18 21:06:52 <theymos> I expected more Russian users. I've heard they have massive ISP-level NATing there, though, so maybe they're all in a few dots.
1980 2010-12-18 21:07:32 <MT`AwAy> possibly
1981 2010-12-18 21:08:23 <MT`AwAy> I should try to detect when I have more than one node on the same coordinates and move them away a bit
1982 2010-12-18 21:08:31 <MT`AwAy> would make the thing more impressive
1983 2010-12-18 21:09:04 <MT`AwAy> http://l.nf/0k6 <- you can see if there are many users on the same point by looking how dark the shadow is
1984 2010-12-18 21:09:24 <MT`AwAy> 395 nodes in the center of moscow
1985 2010-12-18 21:09:31 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: You are from russia?
1986 2010-12-18 21:09:35 <MT`AwAy> "1 of 395 nearby results"
1987 2010-12-18 21:09:39 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: I'm in Japan
1988 2010-12-18 21:10:17 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Oh, because map opened me detail of Moskva :)
1989 2010-12-18 21:10:21 <MT`AwAy> http://l.nf/0k7 <- you see the green node there, it's me
1990 2010-12-18 21:10:48 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: I posted a link of moscow region to show there are many russian users
1991 2010-12-18 21:11:09 <MT`AwAy> tokyo are have 11 users, that's 10 more than I though
1992 2010-12-18 21:11:45 <MT`AwAy> 5 users in koreao
1993 2010-12-18 21:11:46 <MT`AwAy> :D
1994 2010-12-18 21:12:20 <MT`AwAy> ~40 in india
1995 2010-12-18 21:12:22 <MT`AwAy> not bad
1996 2010-12-18 21:12:40 <MT`AwAy> (and two in pakistan)
1997 2010-12-18 21:12:54 <slush_cz> **waving to Chiyoda
1998 2010-12-18 21:13:13 <theymos> There's another Bitcoin user in my (small) city. Cool.
1999 2010-12-18 21:13:49 <slush_cz> I was amazed there is 28 users in Prague. I think it is mainly because I posted news about bitcoin month ago to some bigger community server
2000 2010-12-18 21:14:03 <helmut> could someone give me a hint on how to read the representation of G?
2001 2010-12-18 21:14:24 <helmut> I'd expect two coordinates, but the paper just gives a hexadecimal string
2002 2010-12-18 21:14:34 <helmut> yes it startes with 04. is that a hint? ;-)
2003 2010-12-18 21:14:37 <MT`AwAy> helmut: the paper gives 04
2004 2010-12-18 21:14:43 <MT`AwAy> then 64 hexa chars of x
2005 2010-12-18 21:14:45 <MT`AwAy> then 64 hexa chars of y
2006 2010-12-18 21:14:50 <helmut> :-)
2007 2010-12-18 21:15:02 <MT`AwAy> same format as public keys
2008 2010-12-18 21:15:09 <MT`AwAy> (public keys too are 04 + x + y)
2009 2010-12-18 21:15:50 <helmut> damn that pdf is copy resistant
2010 2010-12-18 21:16:36 <MT`AwAy> yeah
2011 2010-12-18 21:16:38 <MT`AwAy> had troubles too
2012 2010-12-18 21:16:39 <MT`AwAy> wait a sec
2013 2010-12-18 21:16:53 <MT`AwAy> .size = 32,
2014 2010-12-18 21:16:53 <MT`AwAy> .name = "secp256k1",
2015 2010-12-18 21:16:53 <MT`AwAy> .prime = "fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffefffffc2f",
2016 2010-12-18 21:16:53 <MT`AwAy> .A = "0",
2017 2010-12-18 21:16:53 <MT`AwAy> .B = "7",
2018 2010-12-18 21:16:53 <MT`AwAy> .order = "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFEBAAEDCE6AF48A03BBFD25E8CD0364141", // also known as "n"
2019 2010-12-18 21:16:54 <MT`AwAy> .Gx = "79BE667EF9DCBBAC55A06295CE870B07029BFCDB2DCE28D959F2815B16F81798",
2020 2010-12-18 21:16:54 <MT`AwAy> .Gy = "483ADA7726A3C4655DA4FBFC0E1108A8FD17B448A68554199C47D08FFB10D4B8",
2021 2010-12-18 21:17:20 <helmut> thank you very much.
2022 2010-12-18 21:19:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway
2023 2010-12-18 21:19:09 <MT`AwAy> going to sleep for real now
2024 2010-12-18 21:19:17 <helmut> thanks for your help!
2025 2010-12-18 21:19:43 <BoBeR> with the bitcoin map
2026 2010-12-18 21:19:49 <BoBeR> what is the red green white dots
2027 2010-12-18 21:20:11 <MT`AwAy> BoBeR: red means "do not accept connections from other nodes"
2028 2010-12-18 21:20:21 <MT`AwAy> BoBeR: green means "accepts connection from other nodes"
2029 2010-12-18 21:20:35 <BoBeR> white?
2030 2010-12-18 21:20:39 <MT`AwAy> BoBeR: white means "I haven't got time to test yet, but it'll be done within ~9 hours"
2031 2010-12-18 21:20:48 <BoBeR> oh cool
2032 2010-12-18 21:20:50 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Until you put this explanation somewhere, people will ask you again and again :)
2033 2010-12-18 21:20:52 <BoBeR> can i find by ip
2034 2010-12-18 21:21:00 <BoBeR> also how accuret is the number
2035 2010-12-18 21:21:00 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: I believe it's somewhat in my post
2036 2010-12-18 21:21:07 <BoBeR> it seems like there is 10000s of users
2037 2010-12-18 21:21:15 <MT`AwAy> BoBeR: it seems too, I was surprised
2038 2010-12-18 21:21:25 Toadyonps3 has quit (Quit: So if a tree falls on Bill Gates in the forest,would anyone really care?)
2039 2010-12-18 21:21:25 <MT`AwAy> in fact, it seems like 7682 users
2040 2010-12-18 21:21:29 <BoBeR> dynamic ips?
2041 2010-12-18 21:21:39 <slush_cz> 10000 users and plenty others who knows about bitcoin already!
2042 2010-12-18 21:21:42 <MT`AwAy> BoBeR: I started scanning only a few hours ago
2043 2010-12-18 21:21:54 <MT`AwAy> slush_cz: just by myself I have 9 nodes :D
2044 2010-12-18 21:22:07 <BoBeR> can i look for an ip
2045 2010-12-18 21:22:08 <BoBeR> or can you
2046 2010-12-18 21:22:22 <BoBeR> find 72.53.69.101 for me please
2047 2010-12-18 21:22:39 <slush_cz> MT`AwAy: Maybe you will know. How I can obtain which processes have allocated swap?
2048 2010-12-18 21:23:50 <MT`AwAy> BoBeR: it's in the db, status green
2049 2010-12-18 21:23:50 <BoBeR> wow
2050 2010-12-18 21:23:56 <MT`AwAy> version 0.3.17
2051 2010-12-18 21:23:59 <BoBeR> accornidng to this there are 6 from my isp
2052 2010-12-18 21:27:07 <MT`AwAy> ok
2053 2010-12-18 21:27:10 <MT`AwAy> the stats will reduce
2054 2010-12-18 21:27:35 <MT`AwAy> I won't display nodes I haven't heared about during the last 3 hours anymore
2055 2010-12-18 21:27:39 <helmut> MT`AwAy: hmm how do I interpret that order?
2056 2010-12-18 21:27:48 <MT`AwAy> helmut: ?
2057 2010-12-18 21:27:50 <helmut> MT`AwAy: cause when I G*n I don't get 1
2058 2010-12-18 21:28:11 <MT`AwAy> helmut: you're doing G*n using curve mathematics ?
2059 2010-12-18 21:28:13 <helmut> dang I have a very subtle mistake
2060 2010-12-18 21:28:44 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting <- here, better
2061 2010-12-18 21:28:54 <MT`AwAy> total: 4972 nodes
2062 2010-12-18 21:29:00 <helmut> MT`AwAy: my prime wasn't prime, cause the first E was an F.
2063 2010-12-18 21:29:00 <MT`AwAy> this one is "real time"
2064 2010-12-18 21:29:08 <MT`AwAy> helmut: :D
2065 2010-12-18 21:29:13 <MT`AwAy> copy/paste helps
2066 2010-12-18 21:29:17 <helmut> indeed
2067 2010-12-18 21:29:28 <helmut> and verifying curve parameters, helps too :D
2068 2010-12-18 21:31:23 <MT`AwAy> rate is back at 33%
2069 2010-12-18 21:31:37 <MT`AwAy> chances are the ips I had collected were too old :p
2070 2010-12-18 21:31:59 <MT`AwAy> https://smsz.net/btcStats/nodes <- estimated number of bitcoin users at this time
2071 2010-12-18 21:32:12 <MT`AwAy> (in fact, all bitcoin users during the past 3 hours)
2072 2010-12-18 21:32:22 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2073 2010-12-18 21:32:53 <theymos> How are you collecting the data?
2074 2010-12-18 21:33:25 <MT`AwAy> theymos: I connect to a node, and ask it "getaddr", it replies me "addr" and I compare with my base, then I connect to the next node...
2075 2010-12-18 21:33:38 <MT`AwAy> doing this long enough allows me to know about all peers in theory
2076 2010-12-18 21:33:39 <bencoder> let him sleep, guys :P
2077 2010-12-18 21:33:59 phuzion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2078 2010-12-18 21:33:59 <helmut> hmm. he's so helpful :-/
2079 2010-12-18 21:34:25 <MT`AwAy> xD
2080 2010-12-18 21:34:40 <Cusipzzz> ya, get some sleep !
2081 2010-12-18 21:34:56 <MT`AwAy> helmut: you can report your findings by creating pages on https://en.bitcoin.it/ (we need content!)
2082 2010-12-18 21:35:13 <helmut> MT`AwAy: what findings?
2083 2010-12-18 21:35:22 <theymos> The addr created in response to getaddr contains a random selection of peers seen in the last 3 hours. You'll probably get most addresses, but not necessary all.
2084 2010-12-18 21:35:24 <MT`AwAy> helmut: fighting with ecc
2085 2010-12-18 21:35:41 <MT`AwAy> theymos: then I talk to each of those addrs, then I talk to the next peer, etc
2086 2010-12-18 21:35:50 <MT`AwAy> in theory I end with all the addrs :p
2087 2010-12-18 21:36:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway it's more representative than the irc channel
2088 2010-12-18 21:36:09 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I will probably publish this as gpl in one git repository once it gets meaningful
2089 2010-12-18 21:36:21 finnomenon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2090 2010-12-18 21:36:28 <MT`AwAy> helmut: then you can just help and complete pages on the wiki :D
2091 2010-12-18 21:36:55 <helmut> MT`AwAy: but I want something better than all the other tries to write this crap in python, cause nobody needs another crapy solution
2092 2010-12-18 21:37:01 finnomenon has joined
2093 2010-12-18 21:37:22 <helmut> MT`AwAy: if there are too many crap implementations in python noone will look at them at all.
2094 2010-12-18 21:37:35 phuzion has joined
2095 2010-12-18 21:37:46 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I was talking about something unrelated to your python software
2096 2010-12-18 21:37:59 <MT`AwAy> helmut: just if you want to thank me, contributing to the bitcoin.it wiki is the way
2097 2010-12-18 21:38:29 <jgarzik> New version 0.3 of cpuminer released: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.msg31439#msg31439
2098 2010-12-18 21:38:46 <helmut> MT`AwAy: is there already a page on the internals? (at least not one linked from the front page)
2099 2010-12-18 21:39:12 <MT`AwAy> helmut: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_Specification <- I copied/completed some stuff about the inter-clients protocol
2100 2010-12-18 21:39:25 <theymos> In theory, most nodes should already be listed in your addr.dat. Addr broadcasts are supposed to reach every node.
2101 2010-12-18 21:39:47 mtgox has joined
2102 2010-12-18 21:39:57 <helmut> MT`AwAy: uhh. copy & paste is not good in this case.
2103 2010-12-18 21:39:59 <Kiba> man, I am hungry!
2104 2010-12-18 21:40:12 <helmut> MT`AwAy: it already contains mistakes I fixed on main wiki earlier.
2105 2010-12-18 21:40:13 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I fixed a few things that were wrong based on my own findings
2106 2010-12-18 21:40:36 Cusipzzz has quit ()
2107 2010-12-18 21:40:46 <theymos> Lots of things are wrong with RHorning's spec. I fixed a few things, but he keeps introducing errors.
2108 2010-12-18 21:41:05 <helmut> MT`AwAy: it would be far better if we could work on the protocol spec on one version, not many.
2109 2010-12-18 21:41:11 <MT`AwAy> I also started documenting checkorder/submitorder/reply
2110 2010-12-18 21:41:18 <jgarzik> rotfl
2111 2010-12-18 21:41:36 <jgarzik> gcc folks: we agree our upstream compiler suffers a -26% performance regression. Let's not bother to fix it.
2112 2010-12-18 21:41:59 <Kiba> theymos: spec of BitDNS?
2113 2010-12-18 21:42:16 * Kiba wonders why BitDNS is not getting some coding love?
2114 2010-12-18 21:42:16 <helmut> MT`AwAy: maybe we could use some $VCS for the protocol spec? I don't see any advantage of maintaining it multiple times.
2115 2010-12-18 21:42:27 <theymos> Kiba: No. The Bitcoin protocol spec that MT`AwAy's spec is based off of.
2116 2010-12-18 21:42:34 <helmut> Kiba: cause they don't do the same mistake as bitcoin!
2117 2010-12-18 21:43:17 <Kiba> helmut: ?
2118 2010-12-18 21:43:22 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I personally like mediawiki as a reference when I code, so this version is also a bit "for me" ^^;
2119 2010-12-18 21:43:57 <MT`AwAy> (ie. it uses C99 standard notation for types, etc)
2120 2010-12-18 21:44:01 <Kiba> I get the impression that we're bickering on details we don't agree with
2121 2010-12-18 21:44:02 <helmut> MT`AwAy: this is nothing I would disagree with. it is perfectly reasonable to write in mediawiki syntax and sync with a mediawiki
2122 2010-12-18 21:44:24 <helmut> MT`AwAy: but mediawiki is not that of a good tool for getting a checkout.
2123 2010-12-18 21:44:24 gavinandresen has joined
2124 2010-12-18 21:44:33 <MT`AwAy> helmut: btw mediawiki acts as a vcs (provides diff, notifies of conflicts, etc)
2125 2010-12-18 21:44:59 <helmut> Kiba: ok. maybe they're overshooting in the other direction.
2126 2010-12-18 21:45:24 AAA_awright_ has joined
2127 2010-12-18 21:45:25 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I agree. only thing left is to find a way to merge the two specs currently ciruclating
2128 2010-12-18 21:45:37 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I guess the only way is time and efforts
2129 2010-12-18 21:45:51 <helmut> MT`AwAy: providing *one* place would help a lot.
2130 2010-12-18 21:45:58 <MT`AwAy> helmut: anyway since I'm actively using the spec on mediawiki, errors will be fixed and it'll be completed
2131 2010-12-18 21:46:29 <MT`AwAy> helmut: well, if we have some kind of vcs, I could code quickly a mediawiki bot that will take the commits from mediawiki and put them in the vcs
2132 2010-12-18 21:46:39 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I'll fix getblocks for you.
2133 2010-12-18 21:46:57 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I haven't started working on blocks yet, was busy with client discovery
2134 2010-12-18 21:47:02 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I'd appreciate that!
2135 2010-12-18 21:47:08 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2136 2010-12-18 21:47:16 <MT`AwAy> helmut: then what vcs ?
2137 2010-12-18 21:47:22 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2138 2010-12-18 21:47:28 <jgarzik> hopefully not CVS or SVN
2139 2010-12-18 21:47:56 <DerrikeG> Only one more confirmation left in the previous block on the PMS.
2140 2010-12-18 21:48:30 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I don't care much. I just want something I can check out (I'd prefer a dvcs)
2141 2010-12-18 21:48:47 <MT`AwAy> helmut: then let's go with github ?
2142 2010-12-18 21:48:57 <helmut> jgarzik: svn isn't that bad since there is git-svn
2143 2010-12-18 21:49:28 * MT`AwAy got a github account
2144 2010-12-18 21:49:40 <MT`AwAy> but I never created a git repo
2145 2010-12-18 21:49:51 <helmut> I always create them using gitosis %-)
2146 2010-12-18 21:50:04 <MT`AwAy> helmut: you have a github account ?
2147 2010-12-18 21:50:07 <helmut> no
2148 2010-12-18 21:50:12 <MT`AwAy> mmh
2149 2010-12-18 21:50:30 <MT`AwAy> mh
2150 2010-12-18 21:50:35 <helmut> I'd use a github repository and contribute back though
2151 2010-12-18 21:50:45 <MT`AwAy> ok
2152 2010-12-18 21:50:56 <MT`AwAy> you'll have to give 'em your public key
2153 2010-12-18 21:51:04 <helmut> I can easily format-patch.
2154 2010-12-18 21:51:17 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2155 2010-12-18 21:51:23 <helmut> i really don't want push access. having someone review my changes is what I prefer.
2156 2010-12-18 21:51:42 <MT`AwAy> mh
2157 2010-12-18 21:51:42 <jgarzik> lfm: did you ever confirm, perchance, that cpuminer does indeed generate blocks on testnet (or mainline) chain?
2158 2010-12-18 21:51:45 <MT`AwAy> github wants me to pay :o
2159 2010-12-18 21:51:49 <MT`AwAy> oh
2160 2010-12-18 21:51:51 <MT`AwAy> found it
2161 2010-12-18 21:51:53 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: not for public repos
2162 2010-12-18 21:52:05 <MT`AwAy> yeah
2163 2010-12-18 21:52:09 <MT`AwAy> have to create an "organisation"
2164 2010-12-18 21:52:10 <jgarzik> lfm: still wondering about VIA...
2165 2010-12-18 21:52:17 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: not really
2166 2010-12-18 21:52:23 <BoBeR> can i upload to git withoout any software
2167 2010-12-18 21:52:25 <BoBeR> im new to ih
2168 2010-12-18 21:52:30 <BoBeR> it and make a bitcoin fork
2169 2010-12-18 21:52:35 <BoBeR> what do i do to mod my files
2170 2010-12-18 21:52:37 <jgarzik> MT`AwAy: you can have it under your own user account, e.g. https://github.com/jgarzik/cpuminer
2171 2010-12-18 21:52:45 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2172 2010-12-18 21:52:49 <MT`AwAy> jgarzik: it said "no"
2173 2010-12-18 21:52:51 <MT`AwAy> Youâre an owner of the bitcoin organization!
2174 2010-12-18 21:52:52 <MT`AwAy> mh
2175 2010-12-18 21:52:55 <MT`AwAy> too late
2176 2010-12-18 21:52:55 <MT`AwAy> :D
2177 2010-12-18 21:52:58 <jgarzik> heh
2178 2010-12-18 21:53:21 <MT`AwAy> ok
2179 2010-12-18 21:53:22 <MT`AwAy> repo name
2180 2010-12-18 21:53:27 <MT`AwAy> help me, I'm tired
2181 2010-12-18 21:53:35 <MT`AwAy> tech_doc doesn't sound that good
2182 2010-12-18 21:53:39 <Lysacor> CAFFIENE!
2183 2010-12-18 21:53:42 <jgarzik> bcnetspec
2184 2010-12-18 21:53:45 <jgarzik> netspec
2185 2010-12-18 21:53:49 <MT`AwAy> netspec
2186 2010-12-18 21:53:49 <MT`AwAy> ok
2187 2010-12-18 21:54:11 <jgarzik> psnvtMicrsoftCamelCaseStudlyCapsNetworkSpecificationForBitcoin
2188 2010-12-18 21:54:11 <BoBeR> specnet
2189 2010-12-18 21:55:06 <MT`AwAy> https://github.com/bitcoin/netspec
2190 2010-12-18 21:55:08 <MT`AwAy> it worked
2191 2010-12-18 21:55:09 mtgox has joined
2192 2010-12-18 21:55:14 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I'd say we should link the repo on both the "official spec" and your spec.
2193 2010-12-18 21:55:15 <MT`AwAy> k
2194 2010-12-18 21:55:18 <MT`AwAy> I'll code a quick bit
2195 2010-12-18 21:55:26 <MT`AwAy> bot
2196 2010-12-18 21:55:37 <MT`AwAy> to have the spec in wikipedia format added to the git repo
2197 2010-12-18 21:55:39 <MT`AwAy> and auto synced
2198 2010-12-18 21:56:12 <helmut> MT`AwAy: once you have the spec in the repo. I'll add a link to the "official spec", so people will look and contribute there.
2199 2010-12-18 21:56:18 <MT`AwAy> ok
2200 2010-12-18 21:57:31 <MT`AwAy> helmut: is .txt fine for a wikipedia formatted text file, or would you suggest something else?
2201 2010-12-18 21:58:11 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I have no objections.
2202 2010-12-18 21:58:28 Cusipzzz has joined
2203 2010-12-18 21:58:41 <MT`AwAy> ok
2204 2010-12-18 21:58:41 <Lysacor> I wish I understood the development side of bitcoin better :(
2205 2010-12-18 21:58:53 <helmut> Lysacor: what part?
2206 2010-12-18 21:59:20 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2207 2010-12-18 21:59:26 <Lysacor> everything :p I understand the financial and technical part as it applies to the hardware, but I am no coder :P
2208 2010-12-18 22:00:25 <helmut> Lysacor: during the last few days I started writing a python implementation from scratch.
2209 2010-12-18 22:00:50 <helmut> Lysacor: it can download the block chain, verify blocks and verify merkle. so I should be able to answer most questions by now.
2210 2010-12-18 22:01:51 <jgarzik> helmut: can it detect double-spends, handle multiple block chains (orphan blocks), and switch to a new block chain when its PoW exceeds current block chain?
2211 2010-12-18 22:01:56 <Lysacor> helmut: that is awesome, I just don't know if I have the motivation to learn all of the backend processes it entails yet. But I am sure it wouldn't be a bad idea to approach it eventually
2212 2010-12-18 22:02:17 <helmut> jgarzik: it can handle multiple chains. nothing else of what you mentioned.
2213 2010-12-18 22:02:33 <helmut> jgarzik: since it doesn't check transactions, it cannot detect doublespends.
2214 2010-12-18 22:03:17 <helmut> jgarzik: I just got the ec stuff working (in theory) about an hour ago.
2215 2010-12-18 22:05:18 <helmut> jgarzik: at the moment I ignore transactions completely. this is about to change.
2216 2010-12-18 22:05:45 dre_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2217 2010-12-18 22:11:31 <helmut> jgarzik: no, it cannot compete with mainline nor any other implementation yet.
2218 2010-12-18 22:11:43 <mizerydearia> before: I am developing a Pizza escrow web site that allows restaurants to participate in offering their pizza and other food items to users looking for new ways to spend their Bitcoins.
2219 2010-12-18 22:11:55 <mizerydearia> after: I am developing a Pizza escrow web site that allows restaurants to participate in offering their pizza and other food items to Internet users. <-- ?
2220 2010-12-18 22:16:25 mtgox has joined
2221 2010-12-18 22:18:13 mndrix_ has joined
2222 2010-12-18 22:18:35 <mndrix_> ;;bc,stats
2223 2010-12-18 22:18:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 98260 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 523 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 3 hours, 37 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 14121.27728970
2224 2010-12-18 22:20:32 <MT`AwAy> helmut: you created an account on github btw?
2225 2010-12-18 22:20:40 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2226 2010-12-18 22:22:44 <helmut> MT`AwAy: nope, but thanks for notifying that you pushed the txt :-)
2227 2010-12-18 22:22:56 <MT`AwAy> helmut: it's not fully pushed yet
2228 2010-12-18 22:23:24 <helmut> I can rebase commits
2229 2010-12-18 22:23:48 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2230 2010-12-18 22:25:02 <TD> hey does anyone have coins on the testnet?
2231 2010-12-18 22:25:43 sethsethseth__ has joined
2232 2010-12-18 22:27:05 <MT`AwAy> TD: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/TEST/
2233 2010-12-18 22:27:08 <DerrikeG> TD: I'm supposed to but they never made it to me from the test faucet last I knew.
2234 2010-12-18 22:27:15 <TD> ah thanks
2235 2010-12-18 22:28:02 mtgox has joined
2236 2010-12-18 22:28:06 <MT`AwAy> helmut: https://github.com/bitcoin/netspec <- updated to MW#319
2237 2010-12-18 22:28:18 <MT`AwAy> helmut: avoid starting your commit messages with [MW#, it'll mess up my bot p
2238 2010-12-18 22:28:46 <helmut> MT`AwAy: that's easy.
2239 2010-12-18 22:29:15 <helmut> MT`AwAy: what way do you prefer? pull requests? format-patch mail? format-patch http? anything else?
2240 2010-12-18 22:29:25 <MT`AwAy> helmut: I have no idea :D
2241 2010-12-18 22:29:33 <MT`AwAy> make it the easiest
2242 2010-12-18 22:29:34 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2243 2010-12-18 22:29:42 <MT`AwAy> (for me to merge)
2244 2010-12-18 22:29:53 <helmut> they're all easy.
2245 2010-12-18 22:30:10 <helmut> format-patch http might be easiest.
2246 2010-12-18 22:30:31 <helmut> I can tell you a url with patches, and you can git apply them
2247 2010-12-18 22:30:32 hundfred has joined
2248 2010-12-18 22:30:43 <MT`AwAy> helmut: ok
2249 2010-12-18 22:31:30 <MT`AwAy> helmut: and everyone's edit on the wiki will be pushed to the repo
2250 2010-12-18 22:31:41 <MT`AwAy> (git will have to do the merging work)
2251 2010-12-18 22:31:47 <MT`AwAy> (if any)
2252 2010-12-18 22:31:54 <Keefe> ;;nelisky
2253 2010-12-18 22:31:55 <gribble> Error: "nelisky" is not a valid command.
2254 2010-12-18 22:32:00 <Keefe> ;;seen nelisky
2255 2010-12-18 22:32:01 <gribble> nelisky was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 18 hours, 5 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <nelisky> ;;bc,stats
2256 2010-12-18 22:32:25 <Kiba> /me 's hunger fulfilled
2257 2010-12-18 22:32:29 <Kiba> now I can hack again
2258 2010-12-18 22:32:29 <Kiba> !
2259 2010-12-18 22:33:09 <Keefe> ;;seen nanotube
2260 2010-12-18 22:33:09 <gribble> nanotube was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 3 hours, 24 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <nanotube> haha still too broad of a category.
2261 2010-12-18 22:34:03 mndrix_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2262 2010-12-18 22:34:30 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2263 2010-12-18 22:40:24 <helmut> can someone get me a raw version of tx fdb5b5a82804a085da25f99833e25e8b63dab34bf7c31da00a61e1b18b85068a?
2264 2010-12-18 22:42:09 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/fdb5b5a82804a085da25f99833e25e8b63dab34bf7c31da00a61e1b18b85068a
2265 2010-12-18 22:42:12 <MT`AwAy> ?
2266 2010-12-18 22:42:12 <MT`AwAy> xd
2267 2010-12-18 22:43:07 <helmut> I meant more raw
2268 2010-12-18 22:43:38 <helmut> for instance the txversion field is missing there
2269 2010-12-18 22:44:04 <mizerydearia> liek uncooked raw?
2270 2010-12-18 22:44:11 <mizerydearia> sashimi style?
2271 2010-12-18 22:44:33 <helmut> oh no. the spec is even more wrong
2272 2010-12-18 22:46:00 <helmut> mizerydearia: I meant like a bytestring
2273 2010-12-18 22:46:21 <helmut> mizerydearia: otherwise I cannot check the transaction
2274 2010-12-18 22:46:51 <gavinandresen> I think bitcointools could get you a hex dump of a transaction pretty easily... let me check
2275 2010-12-18 22:47:19 <helmut> I looked at the source bitcoin source, but somehow my genesis transaction has different hash
2276 2010-12-18 22:48:15 <mizerydearia> uhoh
2277 2010-12-18 22:48:43 Zarutian has joined
2278 2010-12-18 22:49:19 <gavinandresen> helmut: key/data for that txn in database is: Raw: 0274788a06858bb1e1610aa01dc3f74bb3da638b5ee23398f925da85a00428a8b5b5fd 9e7c00000100000098307f03e9307f0301ffffffff0000000000000000
2279 2010-12-18 22:50:24 RichardG_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2280 2010-12-18 22:51:01 <MT`AwAy> helmut: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Protocol_Specification&action=history <- editting from git works!
2281 2010-12-18 22:51:10 <gavinandresen> oops, hang on, missing a level of indirection...
2282 2010-12-18 22:51:59 <MT`AwAy> ok
2283 2010-12-18 22:52:02 <MT`AwAy> going to sleep this time
2284 2010-12-18 22:52:02 <helmut> MT`AwAy: cool :-)
2285 2010-12-18 22:52:14 <helmut> MT`AwAy: I'll get you my patches tomorrow
2286 2010-12-18 22:52:35 <MT`AwAy> 'k
2287 2010-12-18 22:52:58 <gavinandresen> helmut: bah, non-trivial, since transactions are variable length in blkindex.dat file.
2288 2010-12-18 22:53:01 <helmut> gavinandresen: no clue what that value means, but it is way too short for a transaction
2289 2010-12-18 22:53:40 <gavinandresen> helmut: do you know the length for that transaction? I could hard-code to dump that number of bytes....
2290 2010-12-18 22:54:45 <helmut> gavinandresen: my best guess for how it looks like is 01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff4d04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73000000000100f2052a01000000434104678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5fac0000
2291 2010-12-18 22:54:52 <helmut> gavinandresen: this is not correct though
2292 2010-12-18 22:56:55 SillyWalker has joined
2293 2010-12-18 22:58:48 <gavinandresen> I get: Raw: 01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff07045359051b014fffffffff0100f2052a01000000434104893c4177d76296f25fbbde7792ca67144ccf88caf617e40d2110952a64ec20e09bfb6319dc8d5fb5e5d8ebe6c256914a851abe62619f1bd9f490efabf3eadfd6ac00000000
2294 2010-12-18 22:58:48 acous has joined
2295 2010-12-18 22:59:25 <gavinandresen> (dumped directly from blkindex.dat)
2296 2010-12-18 23:00:20 <helmut> interesting
2297 2010-12-18 23:01:52 <helmut> I don't think it can be correct
2298 2010-12-18 23:02:39 <helmut> the txin script contains a magic string which is not to be found in the tx you posted
2299 2010-12-18 23:04:44 Granttt has quit (Disconnected by services)
2300 2010-12-18 23:04:46 Grantt has joined
2301 2010-12-18 23:04:51 Grantt is now known as Granttt
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2304 2010-12-18 23:05:00 <gavinandresen> bitcointools is parsing the rest of the txn correctly... is this the genesis transaction?
2305 2010-12-18 23:05:30 <gavinandresen> TxIn: COIN GENERATED coinbase:045359051b014f
2306 2010-12-18 23:05:31 <gavinandresen> TxOut: value: 50.00 pubkey: 12JWXcVnHjGDHJQPct2yjTo9YrgZtZ6Utx Script: 65:0489...dfd6 CHECKSIG
2307 2010-12-18 23:06:23 <helmut> it definitely has similarity to what bitcoinexplorer.com thinks
2308 2010-12-18 23:08:00 <helmut> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=genesis_block :-)
2309 2010-12-18 23:08:27 mtgox has joined
2310 2010-12-18 23:08:53 <gavinandresen> You talking about wire-format transactions?
2311 2010-12-18 23:09:12 <helmut> yes
2312 2010-12-18 23:09:27 <helmut> this is what is hashed
2313 2010-12-18 23:10:05 <gavinandresen> Ah, yeah, I was dumping from the database... Just prepend the 4-byte magic string, yes?
2314 2010-12-18 23:10:58 <helmut> that one isn't hashed
2315 2010-12-18 23:11:35 <BoBeR> ;;seen thomas_the
2316 2010-12-18 23:11:35 <gribble> I have not seen thomas_the.
2317 2010-12-18 23:11:44 <BoBeR> ;;seen my.penis
2318 2010-12-18 23:11:44 <gribble> Error: 'my.penis' is not a valid nick.
2319 2010-12-18 23:11:50 <BoBeR> ;;seen my_penis
2320 2010-12-18 23:11:50 <gribble> I have not seen my_penis.
2321 2010-12-18 23:12:01 <gavinandresen> gotta go for a while...
2322 2010-12-18 23:13:20 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2323 2010-12-18 23:16:28 <helmut> uhh. wait. I can crash clients with bad transactions?!
2324 2010-12-18 23:17:45 <Kiba> wee!
2325 2010-12-18 23:19:06 noagendamarket has joined
2326 2010-12-18 23:19:27 <helmut> no. I cannot. it is just a safeguard condition
2327 2010-12-18 23:25:45 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
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