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 20 2010-12-25 01:14:17 <necrodearia> Perhaps 'BTC' could be established for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217#Active_codes
 21 2010-12-25 01:15:33 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 22 2010-12-25 01:26:19 theymos has joined
 23 2010-12-25 01:27:12 <Sirius_> somebody on the forum said "BTC" doesn't conform to the standard
 24 2010-12-25 01:27:31 <Sirius_> or was already taken or something
 25 2010-12-25 01:27:44 <Sirius_> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1446.0
 26 2010-12-25 01:27:46 <bitbot> "BTC" and ISO 4217
 27 2010-12-25 01:28:56 <Sirius_> BT is the country code for bhutan... what's the C for? :)
 28 2010-12-25 01:29:03 <Sirius_> Bhutan Coin?
 29 2010-12-25 01:29:20 <Sirius_> Bhutcoin
 30 2010-12-25 01:32:14 <Kiba> no
 31 2010-12-25 01:32:25 <Kiba>  Ngultrum is the name of their currency
 32 2010-12-25 01:33:14 <Kiba> their economy happens to be one of the smallest in the world, but they're also the second fastest growing economy in the world
 33 2010-12-25 01:34:23 <theymos> So their currency code is BTN -- no real confusion.
 34 2010-12-25 01:36:03 <INEEDMONEY1> call it CIM
 35 2010-12-25 01:36:05 <INEEDMONEY1> crazy internet money
 36 2010-12-25 01:37:09 <necrodearia> If you were to offer bitcoins and ask for someone to buy a pizza for you, how would you label or name the bitcoin amount specified?
 37 2010-12-25 01:39:10 <genjix> btc
 38 2010-12-25 01:39:22 <Kiba> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nauru
 39 2010-12-25 01:39:30 <Kiba> I believe we are bigger than the economy of nauru
 40 2010-12-25 01:39:42 genjix has quit (Quit: leaving)
 41 2010-12-25 01:41:19 <necrodearia> Specifically, if you were filling out a form that allowed you to prepare an order for pizza in which you intend to offer or buy with bitcoins, what question or label seems most related to offering a bitcoin value?
 42 2010-12-25 01:41:33 cosurgi has joined
 43 2010-12-25 01:43:39 Cdh has quit (2!~cdh@p57B445F0.dip.t-dialin.net|Remote host closed the connection)
 44 2010-12-25 01:46:09 <theymos> On a pre-printed form I would just write "bitcoins" out in full.
 45 2010-12-25 01:47:13 necrodearia is now known as mizerydearia
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 47 2010-12-25 01:51:38 INEEDMONEY1 is now known as adhoc
 48 2010-12-25 01:51:40 <theymos> Sirius_: On the forum, the blue star pips that moderators have is strange-looking, since every other user group has the coin pips. Can you change that?
 49 2010-12-25 01:51:41 adhoc is now known as AdHoc
 50 2010-12-25 01:52:05 AdHoc is now known as INEEDMONEY
 51 2010-12-25 02:00:18 Cusipzzz has joined
 52 2010-12-25 02:05:18 <Kiba> I luv tvtropes
 53 2010-12-25 02:05:41 Asphodelia has joined
 54 2010-12-25 02:27:40 cosurgi has joined
 55 2010-12-25 02:31:24 <INEEDMONEY> anyone who would like to be part of an anarchist trade syndicate, join #highdeas
 56 2010-12-25 02:31:32 <INEEDMONEY> ENDADVERTISEMENT
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 69 2010-12-25 04:11:36 <lolcat^> Is it expencive to wire money into mtgox? And out?
 70 2010-12-25 04:15:14 <Cusipzzz> no...he charges 15$ for domestic wires. plus whatever your bank charges
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 83 2010-12-25 06:13:10 <BoBeR> hai
 84 2010-12-25 06:13:13 <BoBeR> ihs the 25th
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 86 2010-12-25 06:13:26 <BoBeR> i found a ardiuno uno under my tree
 87 2010-12-25 06:13:28 <BoBeR> what do?
 88 2010-12-25 06:13:34 <BoBeR> what the first thing i should make
 89 2010-12-25 06:16:18 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * re7c6c51 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Further improve how nonce base is managed - http://bit.ly/e7gMGw
 90 2010-12-25 06:18:35 <doublec> a grammar checker?
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 97 2010-12-25 07:46:07 <caracrist> hi ppl, i have a technical question about the client and coins transfer, is it a corret place to ask?
 98 2010-12-25 07:46:40 <theymos> Yes.
 99 2010-12-25 07:47:50 RazielZ has joined
100 2010-12-25 07:48:33 <caracrist> good, I have a client installed. There is no options of saving or accessing any files. So where are the coins actually stored and how can i access the same account on different PC?
101 2010-12-25 07:49:57 <BoBeR> #bitcoin-otc
102 2010-12-25 07:50:39 <theymos> Your account data is stored in the wallet.dat file in the Bitcoin data directory. This is the file you need to back up. However, you can't use the same account on two different computers.
103 2010-12-25 07:51:14 <theymos> If you need to use bitcoins on more than one computer, you can use a https://www.mybitcoin.com/ account.
104 2010-12-25 07:52:08 grondilu has joined
105 2010-12-25 07:52:49 <grondilu> Hi, can't we send amounts with a precision smaller than 0.01 BTC already ?
106 2010-12-25 07:53:19 <grondilu> I've tried and it was rounded :(
107 2010-12-25 07:53:33 <caracrist> how can I find that file? where is "Bitcoin data directory"?
108 2010-12-25 07:53:38 <theymos> grondilu: Not with unmodified Bitcoin. If you compile a custom version, you can send these transactions, but no generators will accept them. Probably you'll have to wait until you generate your own block.
109 2010-12-25 07:54:13 <theymos> caracrist: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Backup#Locating_BitCoin_s_data_directory
110 2010-12-25 07:54:33 <caracrist> thank you!
111 2010-12-25 07:55:59 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
112 2010-12-25 07:57:19 <caracrist> are you planning to add backup features to the client?
113 2010-12-25 07:59:27 <theymos> What kind of features do you need? (I'm not a developer, so I'm not planning anything.)
114 2010-12-25 08:00:12 <caracrist> :)
115 2010-12-25 08:01:53 <caracrist> simpliest one can be an option to send encrypted(by mail) and at least option to open file(not just use the only default location...
116 2010-12-25 08:02:06 satamusic_ has joined
117 2010-12-25 08:05:14 <theymos> Currently Bitcoin does no encryption, and there've been problems with getting encryption to work cross-platform, so probably there won't be any encryption for a long time. There's already an API command to copy your wallet: backupwallet. This might get a GUI element at some point.
118 2010-12-25 08:12:38 altamic has joined
119 2010-12-25 08:14:36 <lfm> caracrist: there are options to access files in other than default locations from the command line
120 2010-12-25 08:21:25 Lysacor has joined
121 2010-12-25 08:21:35 <Lysacor> ;;bc,stats
122 2010-12-25 08:21:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99319 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 1480 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 21 hours, 12 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15097.69525510
123 2010-12-25 08:22:21 Lysacor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
124 2010-12-25 08:26:42 <BoBeR> who is an admin of bitcoin forum
125 2010-12-25 08:45:49 altamic has left ()
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129 2010-12-25 09:32:14 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, Sirius_ is
130 2010-12-25 09:32:50 <mizerydearia> ;diff
131 2010-12-25 09:32:52 <bitbot> diff is http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=difficulty
132 2010-12-25 09:33:04 <BoBeR> hai
133 2010-12-25 09:33:05 <mizerydearia> ;diffnum
134 2010-12-25 09:33:06 <bitbot> 14,484.16236123000089719425886869430542
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139 2010-12-25 10:50:48 <BoBeR> its the 25th
140 2010-12-25 10:50:57 <BoBeR> im missing around on an arduine
141 2010-12-25 10:50:59 <BoBeR> im missing around on an arduino
142 2010-12-25 10:56:15 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
143 2010-12-25 10:56:38 <phillipsjk> I was babbling in #bitcoin-discussion (again) and didn't get a response to a techical question: who determines the difficulty? The clients or some central control server over IRC?
144 2010-12-25 10:57:08 lfm has joined
145 2010-12-25 10:58:10 <lfm> what you think you'll do with arduino?
146 2010-12-25 10:59:13 <phillipsjk> isn't that a micro-processor operating at 20Mhz?
147 2010-12-25 10:59:36 <lfm> ya something like that
148 2010-12-25 10:59:53 <phillipsjk> You may be able to make soem kind of e-cash "thin client"
149 2010-12-25 11:00:18 * phillipsjk has not even used bitcion yet
150 2010-12-25 11:00:25 <arcatan> oooh, interesting idea
151 2010-12-25 11:00:40 <lfm> youd need some sort of internet connection
152 2010-12-25 11:01:35 <phillipsjk> On the forums there was discussion carrying around pre-computed tokens of some kind.
153 2010-12-25 11:01:46 <arcatan> you can get an Ethernet or WiFi shield for it
154 2010-12-25 11:01:54 <phillipsjk> woun't not be able to verify without Internet though.
155 2010-12-25 11:02:08 <arcatan> shield is kind of an arduino peripheral
156 2010-12-25 11:02:49 <lfm> wifi prolly cost more than arduino
157 2010-12-25 11:03:06 <arcatan> probably yeah
158 2010-12-25 11:04:17 <lfm> what you think of boxing day sale of xfx 5830 for $115
159 2010-12-25 11:05:12 <lfm> oh $120 actually
160 2010-12-25 11:05:26 <LobsterMan> phillipsjk the diff is determined automatically by the network
161 2010-12-25 11:05:30 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
162 2010-12-25 11:05:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99347 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 1452 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15388.50783595
163 2010-12-25 11:05:49 <lfm> LobsterMan: ya, so?
164 2010-12-25 11:05:50 <sipa1024> LobsterMan: clients who have the block chain can determine it for themselves
165 2010-12-25 11:05:57 <LobsterMan> [05:54] <phillipsjk> I was babbling in #bitcoin-discussion (again) and didn't get a response to a techical question: who determines the difficulty? The clients or some central control server over IRC?
166 2010-12-25 11:06:04 <sipa1024> but how is this communicated to others?
167 2010-12-25 11:06:26 <sipa1024> or do currently all connected clients download the whole blockchain?
168 2010-12-25 11:06:39 <lfm> LobsterMan: it is specified calculation that all nodes do and verify
169 2010-12-25 11:07:04 <LobsterMan> i was answering phillipsjk <_<
170 2010-12-25 11:07:09 <phillipsjk> :)
171 2010-12-25 11:07:19 <lfm> sipa1024: all connected nodes get whole block chain
172 2010-12-25 11:07:30 <sipa1024> will that remain necessary?
173 2010-12-25 11:07:59 * phillipsjk thinks all coins ever genereated but be saved (at least).
174 2010-12-25 11:08:09 <phillipsjk> *must be
175 2010-12-25 11:08:26 <lfm> sipa1024: Not sure. Some old transactions may be dropped but I think you still need the full chain of block headers
176 2010-12-25 11:08:38 <phillipsjk> I may not be completely understanding the mercle tree though.
177 2010-12-25 11:09:03 <sipa1024> it's an efficient hash for the list of transactions
178 2010-12-25 11:09:26 <lfm> phillipsjk: ya, it is the merkle tree that allows the dropping of old transactions
179 2010-12-25 11:09:55 <sipa1024> if you drop transactions, the merkle root changes, and your block becomes invalid
180 2010-12-25 11:10:04 <phillipsjk> If the coin info is dropped, how do you know who "owns" them if they are never spent?
181 2010-12-25 11:10:40 <lfm> sipa1024: no, you keep the merkle tree the same, just have placeholders for dropped transations
182 2010-12-25 11:10:50 <sipa1024> ah
183 2010-12-25 11:11:28 <lfm> phillipsjk: if they are not spent then you need to keep the records. the ones you can drop are old superceded transactions
184 2010-12-25 11:11:45 <phillipsjk> ok.
185 2010-12-25 11:12:12 <phillipsjk> I suppose that is (one of the reasons) why the coins are capped.
186 2010-12-25 11:12:41 <lfm> phillipsjk: no, i dont think there is a connection there
187 2010-12-25 11:14:27 <sipa1024> when is a transaction superceded?
188 2010-12-25 11:16:05 <lfm> sipa1024: old transactions are used as inputs and the outputs are generally two parts. the spent part you send to someone else and a "change" left over that you get back, once the new transaction is finalized and verified you can drop the input transactions values
189 2010-12-25 11:16:55 sneak has joined
190 2010-12-25 11:17:22 sneak is now known as Guest41438
191 2010-12-25 11:18:10 <lfm> why would anyone change their nick from sneak to Guest41438 ?
192 2010-12-25 11:18:48 <phillipsjk> Have people investigated the taximplications of bicoin? With rapid deflation, you can be on the hook for a lot of money in your national currency, denpending when you have to calculate them as income.
193 2010-12-25 11:19:22 <phillipsjk> It shouldn't be too bad if you only have to report upon conversion htough.
194 2010-12-25 11:20:47 <lfm> ya I think they would accept the exchange rate that you actually got, of course you should keep records
195 2010-12-25 11:22:01 <phillipsjk> I'm afraid if I ask, the answer will be "don't do that" on principle ;)
196 2010-12-25 11:22:49 <lfm> easier to get forgivness than permission eh?
197 2010-12-25 11:22:58 <phillipsjk> lfm: the problem is if you are acutally doing work for bitcions, you are supposed to report your income. I'd have to read up on the local tax code.
198 2010-12-25 11:23:49 <lfm> phillipsjk: ya, and your sposed to collect GST/VAT in some places
199 2010-12-25 11:24:59 <phillipsjk> I didn't think of that. Apparently there is a $30,000 exemption or something for that here (Canada) (don't quote me on the exact number).
200 2010-12-25 11:26:16 <lfm> thatd make sense. tax collectors dont get outa bed for less than 30,000
201 2010-12-25 11:26:59 <phillipsjk> I think it is designed to catch businesses, but not small private sales.
202 2010-12-25 11:29:05 <phillipsjk> I may put a bitcion section on my website in the coming weeks.
203 2010-12-25 11:29:35 <lfm> let us know
204 2010-12-25 11:30:59 <phillipsjk> It would also discuss how the bitcion protocol is limited to about 1000-50000 miners (13000 expected-> 3 month payback period) at any given time.
205 2010-12-25 11:31:39 <lfm> how do you figure that?
206 2010-12-25 11:32:35 <phillipsjk> Poeple won't be minig without some reasonable chance of getting a return on investment. There are only 6 "winners" per hour.
207 2010-12-25 11:33:11 <phillipsjk> It is a lot less centralized than current currencies, so is still an improvement.
208 2010-12-25 11:33:50 <lfm> phillipsjk: it seems you neglect that it isnt evenly distributed
209 2010-12-25 11:34:12 <phillipsjk> That limitation actually makes me feel better about the protocol: it means the average user won't have to worry about burning CPU time: capacity will be added in proportion to value.
210 2010-12-25 11:34:21 <lfm> also how do you count the "pools"?
211 2010-12-25 11:34:56 <phillipsjk> A pool counts as 1 (because the pool admin is a trusted thrid party).
212 2010-12-25 11:35:05 <lfm> k
213 2010-12-25 11:36:02 <sipa1024> phillipsjk: i don't get that remark about average users
214 2010-12-25 11:36:45 <phillipsjk> If it becomes a mjor currency, there will be hundrend of millions of users, but less than a million will be actively mining.
215 2010-12-25 11:37:07 <lfm> phillipsjk: he is makeing an assumption that people wont stick with mining if they dont win a block at least every 3 months
216 2010-12-25 11:37:49 <sipa1024> i think some enthousiasts may keep mining
217 2010-12-25 11:37:56 <phillipsjk> Yes: that is the time-frame businesses thend to do short-term planning for.
218 2010-12-25 11:38:59 <phillipsjk> sipa1024: If they can't compete with the big boys, they will only get a block every 2000 days or so. They get lost in the noise.
219 2010-12-25 11:39:09 <lfm> it is a wild ass guess but it may actually relate to the hypothisis that people wont mine if they spend more on their power bill for mining than they gain from mining
220 2010-12-25 11:40:18 <caracrist> don't forget about loss of bitcoins in many cases, like hardware problems...
221 2010-12-25 11:40:19 <sipa1024> that way, mining will eventually be limited to those who can achieve the highest power-efficiency for mining, ie. those with the most recent hardware
222 2010-12-25 11:40:38 <lfm> and the lowest power rates
223 2010-12-25 11:41:18 <phillipsjk> "he" is me, and that is part of it. I am also concerned about the need to oversize everybody's computer to keep the monatary system working: that would be inefficient. It makes sense for large institutions to take over eventually.
224 2010-12-25 11:42:14 <phillipsjk> The increased number of participants implies an oliogarchy can not be easily formed.
225 2010-12-25 11:43:22 <lfm> well if any one entity ever controls more than 50% it could take over
226 2010-12-25 11:43:55 <lfm> its like democracy
227 2010-12-25 11:44:03 <phillipsjk> lfm: everybody using the system woulkd have a strong incentive to prevent that from happening.
228 2010-12-25 11:44:56 <lfm> phillipsjk: ya, its like democracy, the minorities would protest
229 2010-12-25 11:46:43 <phillipsjk> assuming the pool operators can be trusted, the "long tail" of consumer (or business) computers can probably defeat one large entity.
230 2010-12-25 11:47:04 <lfm> well we hope so anyway
231 2010-12-25 11:48:05 <sipa1024> if the long tail becomes large enough
232 2010-12-25 11:48:29 <sipa1024> however, that would imply that their gains from will be almost zero
233 2010-12-25 11:48:37 <sipa1024> *mining
234 2010-12-25 11:49:03 <sipa1024> and that "keeping the network independent" is enough motivation to spend power and cpu/gup cycles on it
235 2010-12-25 11:49:12 <phillipsjk> IMO, if the system is dominated by one entity, every user will have an inclentive to run thier own miner if only to keep transaction fees low.
236 2010-12-25 11:49:45 <BoBeR> is it 7 am yet
237 2010-12-25 11:49:51 <sipa1024> but what if one seemingly good entity starts donation gpu time and build a farm
238 2010-12-25 11:49:54 <phillipsjk> Which timezone?
239 2010-12-25 11:49:57 <BoBeR> im staying up all night so i can open presents
240 2010-12-25 11:50:00 <BoBeR> EST
241 2010-12-25 11:50:09 <phillipsjk> one more hour
242 2010-12-25 11:50:18 <BoBeR> no way
243 2010-12-25 11:50:23 <phillipsjk> ooop 13 minute
244 2010-12-25 11:50:25 <BoBeR> last time i asked it was 6 15
245 2010-12-25 11:50:30 <BoBeR> sick buzz
246 2010-12-25 11:50:38 <BoBeR> ALL NIGHTER FTW
247 2010-12-25 11:50:45 <sipa1024> BoBeR: don't you have a clock?
248 2010-12-25 11:50:51 <BoBeR> i was messing around with an arduino
249 2010-12-25 11:50:56 <phillipsjk> i looked only at the hour, not minutes
250 2010-12-25 11:50:58 <BoBeR> the one on my pc corner is missing
251 2010-12-25 11:51:07 <sipa1024> i have one in my irc client :)
252 2010-12-25 11:51:13 <BoBeR> and the one in my room is on the selve
253 2010-12-25 11:51:23 <sipa1024> http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/na/est.html
254 2010-12-25 11:51:23 <BoBeR> im lienig in bed with my laptop
255 2010-12-25 11:51:38 <lfm> 4:48 here
256 2010-12-25 11:51:46 * phillipsjk should nap before present-opening time
257 2010-12-25 11:51:48 <sipa1024> anyway, 10 minutes 30 seconds left
258 2010-12-25 11:52:10 <phillipsjk> I work nights, so normally go to sleep at ~4am
259 2010-12-25 11:52:14 <lfm> I always advise parents to outlaw computers in the bedroom
260 2010-12-25 11:52:29 <sipa1024> how old are you, BoBeR? :)
261 2010-12-25 11:52:58 <BoBeR> 17
262 2010-12-25 11:53:16 <BoBeR> lfm why
263 2010-12-25 11:53:22 <BoBeR> thats a form of censorship
264 2010-12-25 11:53:34 <BoBeR> im not stupid im not camwhoring
265 2010-12-25 11:53:43 <BoBeR> in fact i bet i could talk ppl into that
266 2010-12-25 11:53:48 <BoBeR> at most i hack around
267 2010-12-25 11:53:58 <lfm> too easy for kids to not get proper sleep if there are computers available. I know from experience
268 2010-12-25 11:54:02 <BoBeR> and mess with antiregulatory currencys
269 2010-12-25 11:54:08 <BoBeR> heh
270 2010-12-25 11:54:08 <phillipsjk> Porn is evil, don't you know ;)
271 2010-12-25 11:54:16 <BoBeR> im staying up with its help right now
272 2010-12-25 11:54:20 <BoBeR> i dont watch porn
273 2010-12-25 11:54:29 <BoBeR> it doesnt ecxite me
274 2010-12-25 11:54:32 <BoBeR> excite
275 2010-12-25 11:54:40 <phillipsjk> same here.
276 2010-12-25 11:54:43 <amiga4000> all these young folks...
277 2010-12-25 11:54:43 <lfm> youre not alseep either
278 2010-12-25 11:55:24 <sipa1024> it's almost 1pm here :)
279 2010-12-25 11:55:27 <phillipsjk> amiga4000: I'll be over the hill soon :/
280 2010-12-25 11:55:30 <BoBeR> almost 7 then
281 2010-12-25 11:55:51 <amiga4000> it is 1pm and snow is gone and it is xmas. Go have a nice party.
282 2010-12-25 11:56:11 <sipa1024> more than enough snow here :)
283 2010-12-25 11:56:22 <lfm> still plenty of snow here
284 2010-12-25 11:56:24 <sipa1024> and i'm waiting to go visit family
285 2010-12-25 11:57:06 <amiga4000> (btw, just got my 6th block in bitcoin in 2 weeks time, great)
286 2010-12-25 11:57:17 <lfm> amiga4000: wtg
287 2010-12-25 11:57:55 <sipa1024> what hardware?
288 2010-12-25 11:58:10 <amiga4000> 6 NVidia 480GTX and 1 AMD 5780
289 2010-12-25 11:58:17 <sipa1024> right :)
290 2010-12-25 11:58:21 <amiga4000> and a few corei7
291 2010-12-25 11:58:44 <sipa1024> i have one ati 4870, and if i wasn't in a pool, you wouldn't have gotten anything yet :)
292 2010-12-25 11:59:07 <amiga4000> and now back to lunch.
293 2010-12-25 12:00:33 <phillipsjk> lfm: the sleep problem prompted my interest in silent computers.
294 2010-12-25 12:01:17 <BoBeR> tmie
295 2010-12-25 12:01:20 <lfm> phillipsjk: noise doesnt really bother my sleep. I have a radio on all the time. no computer in bedrrom tho
296 2010-12-25 12:01:20 <BoBeR> time
297 2010-12-25 12:01:33 <lfm> 4:58
298 2010-12-25 12:01:51 <BoBeR> 2 miniuts
299 2010-12-25 12:02:13 <phillipsjk> I don't currently have a non-doorstop computer in the beadroom either (no nework access).
300 2010-12-25 12:02:42 <lfm> oh I have ethernet cables all over. wifi sucks
301 2010-12-25 12:03:20 <phillipsjk> Still living with my parents, so not allowed to just knock holes in the wall.
302 2010-12-25 12:03:33 <BoBeR> lol
303 2010-12-25 12:04:38 <lfm> ya, i have a nice 1 inch diameter 18 inch long drill bit makes short work of walls
304 2010-12-25 12:06:39 <lfm> 5:01 bye BoBeR !
305 2010-12-25 12:07:26 <phillipsjk> At my previous house, I ran nework cable along the ceiling with suction cups for a while (fell down periodically).
306 2010-12-25 12:07:31 <BoBeR> laters
307 2010-12-25 12:08:05 <lfm> did you have to lick the cups? gross eh?
308 2010-12-25 12:08:38 <phillipsjk> I used vasaline (whie petrolium jelly) which requires some soap and water to clean up.
309 2010-12-25 12:09:49 <lfm> so no valsaline on the ceilings for your new house huh?
310 2010-12-25 12:11:13 <phillipsjk> I would have to buy a much longer network cable.  I think it would be easier/better to just properly wire every room.
311 2010-12-25 12:11:46 <caracrist> is there any bug/featur tracker for the client?
312 2010-12-25 12:12:20 <lfm> caracrist: nope
313 2010-12-25 12:12:33 <lfm> caracrist: just the forums
314 2010-12-25 12:12:49 phillipsjk has quit (Quit: sleep)
315 2010-12-25 12:13:51 <caracrist> My clieant decided to be right to left in english... strange though
316 2010-12-25 12:14:16 <lfm> yup thats odd
317 2010-12-25 12:15:03 <lfm> make sure locale is unset
318 2010-12-25 12:15:29 <caracrist> it is set, is it some kind of limitation?
319 2010-12-25 12:16:01 <lfm> whats it set to? maybe something not supported
320 2010-12-25 12:16:34 <lfm> missing translation?
321 2010-12-25 12:17:00 <caracrist> credit and debit columnes are l2r, description column r2l, tabs and menu items are r2l (mized mode :) )
322 2010-12-25 12:17:06 <caracrist> *mixed
323 2010-12-25 12:17:28 <lfm> what is lacale set to?
324 2010-12-25 12:17:35 <caracrist> hebrew
325 2010-12-25 12:18:31 <lfm> ah, right, there is no hebrew translation yet. maybe you could make one up, Im not really sure what is needed myself tho
326 2010-12-25 12:19:54 <lfm> look at the files in the locale subdirectory of the sources
327 2010-12-25 12:20:20 <caracrist> yeah working on it
328 2010-12-25 12:21:01 <lfm> good luck with that. if you make it work, there might be a bitcoin reward for the work
329 2010-12-25 12:21:22 <caracrist> not a must, but will be nice :)
330 2010-12-25 12:29:24 RichardG has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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334 2010-12-25 12:33:09 <caracrist> hmm... i see where is no unicode example :)
335 2010-12-25 12:35:19 <caracrist> it's compiled utf-8...
336 2010-12-25 12:54:40 <caracrist> i see it's not that simple... need to add unicode support to the program first... wxT(" wraps, and of a kind...
337 2010-12-25 12:56:01 <lfm> it is compiled utf-8 yes
338 2010-12-25 12:56:55 <caracrist> I see the code... It is not ready for unicode... more than half of potential users in the world :)
339 2010-12-25 12:58:43 <lfm> so you think it is insuficient for chinese and japanese also then?
340 2010-12-25 12:59:02 <caracrist> i am sure
341 2010-12-25 12:59:59 <lfm> ok, I didnt know that the creator is Japanese so it surprises me
342 2010-12-25 13:00:25 <caracrist> yeah good point :)
343 2010-12-25 13:00:38 <caracrist> it is realy surprising
344 2010-12-25 13:01:03 <lfm> at least he has a japanese name. Maybe he is actually just american, I dont know for sure
345 2010-12-25 13:03:51 <caracrist> there are funny things like this, in code: string() + "<br><b>" + _("Message:") + "</b><br>"
346 2010-12-25 13:04:15 <caracrist> mixed _( macro and utf-8 strings
347 2010-12-25 13:04:21 <lfm> thats for bold I think
348 2010-12-25 13:04:46 <caracrist> doesn't matter, you can't compile it in unicode mode :)
349 2010-12-25 13:06:19 <lfm> perhaps you could start a thread in the forums about this. maybe find some people who know more about it than I do
350 2010-12-25 13:07:53 <caracrist> I will try to find a time for it... thank you, bye bye.
351 2010-12-25 13:08:16 <lfm> ok sorry i couldnt do more for ya
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371 2010-12-25 14:45:50 <dsg> bc,estimate
372 2010-12-25 14:45:52 <dsg> ;;bc,estimate
373 2010-12-25 14:45:53 <gribble> 15441.23302593
374 2010-12-25 14:46:23 RichardG has joined
375 2010-12-25 15:04:03 Diablo-D3 has joined
376 2010-12-25 15:07:09 <lfm> I found a boxing day sale they're offering 5830 for $120
377 2010-12-25 15:07:22 <Diablo-D3> thats not really worth shit
378 2010-12-25 15:07:33 <lfm> 200mhash
379 2010-12-25 15:07:43 <Diablo-D3> 5830s use more power than 5850s (almost as much as a 5870, really), and do just a tad over 5770's power
380 2010-12-25 15:07:45 <Diablo-D3> er
381 2010-12-25 15:07:48 <Diablo-D3> mhash rate
382 2010-12-25 15:08:19 <Diablo-D3> so you buy a device that does between 5770 and 5850 in mhash, but between 5850 and 5870 in watts
383 2010-12-25 15:08:21 <lfm> so you figgure a 5770 for $100 would be better?
384 2010-12-25 15:08:33 <Diablo-D3> yes
385 2010-12-25 15:08:40 <Diablo-D3> or a 5850
386 2010-12-25 15:08:45 <lfm> hmm interesting
387 2010-12-25 15:09:05 <lfm> 5850 is still $270
388 2010-12-25 15:09:24 <Diablo-D3> its like 5970, 5870, 5850, 5770, 5750 in watt efficiency
389 2010-12-25 15:09:42 <Diablo-D3> 5970, 5850, {5770, 5870} in dollar efficiency
390 2010-12-25 15:09:56 <Diablo-D3> 5850s are really good cards if you cant get a 5970
391 2010-12-25 15:10:48 <lfm> im not reallly in 58970 market still over $600
392 2010-12-25 15:11:01 <lfm> 5970 that is
393 2010-12-25 15:11:52 <Diablo-D3> if you cant afford a 5850, get a 5770
394 2010-12-25 15:11:57 <Diablo-D3> they're not bad cards
395 2010-12-25 15:12:01 Guest41438 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
396 2010-12-25 15:12:31 <lfm> ya I got a 5770 already was on sale for $105, I spoze I shoulda got more than 1 then
397 2010-12-25 15:15:16 <lfm> any of the 6xxx any good yet?
398 2010-12-25 15:16:14 Wfx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
399 2010-12-25 15:18:06 <Cusipzzz> how many hash for a 5970 ? those look insane
400 2010-12-25 15:19:31 <lfm> over 500 mhash/s I think
401 2010-12-25 15:19:33 <ArtForz> ~530M stock with m0s miner
402 2010-12-25 15:19:55 <Cusipzzz> thx, what's tha calc on that at current difficulty ?
403 2010-12-25 15:19:59 <lfm> where do you find power consumption figures?
404 2010-12-25 15:20:14 <ArtForz> wikipedia is a good start
405 2010-12-25 15:20:58 <ArtForz> AMDs TDP figures seem to correlate well with actual power draw while mining, at least for 5770, 5870 and 5970
406 2010-12-25 15:24:11 <lfm> doh TDP colum was off the side of the window and I didnt notice
407 2010-12-25 15:25:06 <ArtForz> 68xx isn't too bad, 6870 is pretty much == 5850
408 2010-12-25 15:26:21 <ArtForz> 69xx isn't very useful for mining, 6970 roughly == 5870
409 2010-12-25 15:32:17 <ArtForz> so 6990 will probably end up == 5970
410 2010-12-25 15:33:55 sneak has joined
411 2010-12-25 15:34:22 sneak is now known as Guest51309
412 2010-12-25 15:34:44 <lfm> ya with power figures looks like i should go for another 5770
413 2010-12-25 15:35:28 <ArtForz> 5970 at $500 was a dceent option, but those are prett much impossible to find nowadays
414 2010-12-25 15:36:18 <lfm> ya, my favorite shop only has em at %650
415 2010-12-25 15:36:32 <lfm> $650
416 2010-12-25 15:43:18 <ArtForz> probably still cheap compared to 6990 :/
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421 2010-12-25 16:06:33 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
422 2010-12-25 16:06:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99381 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 1418 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 21 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15495.66241413
423 2010-12-25 16:10:02 sec^nd has joined
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427 2010-12-25 16:40:43 <Diablo-D3> back
428 2010-12-25 16:40:54 <Diablo-D3> [10:22:50] <ArtForz> 68xx isn't too bad, 6870 is pretty much == 5850
429 2010-12-25 16:41:01 <Diablo-D3> I always seem to have to qualify that
430 2010-12-25 16:41:08 <Diablo-D3> 5870 3D speeds, 5850 mining speeds
431 2010-12-25 16:41:16 <Diablo-D3> its really fucking optimized for the job they did, and Im surprised
432 2010-12-25 16:42:53 <genjix> your mum is optimised but we're not surprised.
433 2010-12-25 16:43:20 <genjix> badoom tsssss
434 2010-12-25 16:43:34 <ArtForz> "what is a good card for mining" != "what is a good card for general 3D"
435 2010-12-25 16:44:05 <genjix> ^ isn't there a strong correlation?
436 2010-12-25 16:44:17 <ArtForz> not that strong
437 2010-12-25 16:44:23 <genjix> after all shaders are the biggest part of "general 3D" these days.
438 2010-12-25 16:44:30 <ArtForz> except when they're not
439 2010-12-25 16:44:56 <genjix> yeah they are. everything is shader run in games today
440 2010-12-25 16:45:27 <ArtForz> 6870 has less shaders than 5850, yet somehow ends up close to 5870 in 3D perf
441 2010-12-25 16:45:42 <genjix> animation skinning, particle effects, mip-mapping, surface effects, ...
442 2010-12-25 16:45:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well you know
443 2010-12-25 16:45:51 <Diablo-D3> thats not entirely true
444 2010-12-25 16:46:03 <ArtForz> yes it is
445 2010-12-25 16:46:04 <Diablo-D3> dx11 is kind of pushing for more integer shit in stuff that needs it
446 2010-12-25 16:46:06 <ArtForz> even 6970 has less raw shader power than 5870
447 2010-12-25 16:46:19 <Diablo-D3> [11:41:17] <ArtForz> "what is a good card for mining" != "what is a good card for general 3D"
448 2010-12-25 16:46:20 <Diablo-D3> I meant that
449 2010-12-25 16:46:44 <Diablo-D3> AMD is pushing for better integer performance for 3D games
450 2010-12-25 16:46:54 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is just completely fucking it up and no one cares what they do
451 2010-12-25 16:46:57 <ArtForz> 6xxx has more bandwidth, better frontends, more/faster fixed function units, ...
452 2010-12-25 16:47:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: which is great all over, really
453 2010-12-25 16:47:39 <ArtForz> yep
454 2010-12-25 16:47:43 * Diablo-D3 salutes AMD
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456 2010-12-25 16:48:04 sneak has joined
457 2010-12-25 16:48:10 <ArtForz> for general shaders 6xxx boosts pref quite a bit
458 2010-12-25 16:48:25 <Diablo-D3> I think the problem isnt that 68xx is worse for mining
459 2010-12-25 16:48:30 sneak is now known as Guest71360
460 2010-12-25 16:48:35 <Diablo-D3> the problem is 68xx fixed a lot of the performance problems for 3D
461 2010-12-25 16:48:37 <ArtForz> but if you have highly optimized code for 5xxx that already gets >95% util... 6xxx is a downgrade
462 2010-12-25 16:48:56 <Diablo-D3> and 69xx is just a happy rape fest
463 2010-12-25 16:49:38 <Diablo-D3> https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/issues#issue/3
464 2010-12-25 16:49:39 <Diablo-D3> huh.
465 2010-12-25 16:49:40 <ArtForz> thats the fun part, for peak integer or FP shader throughput 6970 is also a downgrade compared to 5870
466 2010-12-25 16:49:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: raw throughput? yes
467 2010-12-25 16:49:58 <Diablo-D3> due to less pipes
468 2010-12-25 16:50:00 <ArtForz> yep
469 2010-12-25 16:50:17 <Diablo-D3> but it uses them far more effectively
470 2010-12-25 16:50:25 <ArtForz> and with some limitations you could do SP/int *and* DP on one VLIW
471 2010-12-25 16:50:33 <Diablo-D3> the problem is bitcoin is just so fucking efficient
472 2010-12-25 16:50:44 <Diablo-D3> we screwed AMD, really
473 2010-12-25 16:50:48 <ArtForz> afair you could still use XYZ when you had T doing 64 DP FP
474 2010-12-25 16:51:14 <Diablo-D3> t is independent from wxyz
475 2010-12-25 16:51:22 <ArtForz> on 69xx DP FP ties up XYZ and leaves you with W
476 2010-12-25 16:51:24 <Diablo-D3> so yeah, if the compiler can emit that, it could possibly be done
477 2010-12-25 16:51:39 <Diablo-D3> but heres the problem
478 2010-12-25 16:51:44 <Diablo-D3> you rarely get to a point where you have that
479 2010-12-25 16:51:50 <Diablo-D3> if you're using dp, you're using it all over
480 2010-12-25 16:51:51 <ArtForz> yep
481 2010-12-25 16:51:59 <Diablo-D3> unfucking dp performance in general helps you more
482 2010-12-25 16:52:01 <Diablo-D3> which they did
483 2010-12-25 16:52:10 <ArtForz> with "normal" shaders 5xxx rarely got >75% utilization
484 2010-12-25 16:52:44 <Diablo-D3> btw
485 2010-12-25 16:52:48 <Diablo-D3> [11:47:20] <Diablo-D3> https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/issues#issue/3
486 2010-12-25 16:52:52 <Diablo-D3> what a bizzaro error
487 2010-12-25 16:53:24 <ArtForz> from the looks of it VLIW4 is a bit underwhelming
488 2010-12-25 16:53:44 <Diablo-D3> vliw4 might be exactly what we want though
489 2010-12-25 16:53:52 <ArtForz> well, yeah
490 2010-12-25 16:53:53 <Diablo-D3> now that its an even number with all exactly the same parts
491 2010-12-25 16:53:59 <Diablo-D3> they can scale it up
492 2010-12-25 16:54:04 <ArtForz> but for more general GPGPU more DP perf would've owned
493 2010-12-25 16:54:15 <Diablo-D3> they could produce vliw8 in a later version
494 2010-12-25 16:54:25 <INEEDMONEY> I need android developers btw
495 2010-12-25 16:54:27 <INEEDMONEY> will pay
496 2010-12-25 16:54:36 <Diablo-D3> and reduce overall alu complexity
497 2010-12-25 16:54:49 <ArtForz> = instead of 4SP or 1DP + 1SP op on a VLIW4 per clock make it 4SP or 1DP + 2SP or 2DP
498 2010-12-25 16:55:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well theres probably an interlock somewhere that only works on half of the unit
499 2010-12-25 16:55:21 <Diablo-D3> ie, DP only works on the first 2, not the last 2
500 2010-12-25 16:55:35 <ArtForz> DP ties up *3* of the units for some reaon
501 2010-12-25 16:55:40 <Diablo-D3> wtf
502 2010-12-25 16:55:47 <Diablo-D3> yeah but guess what
503 2010-12-25 16:55:55 <Diablo-D3> per watt, we're still pwning the shit out of anything nvidia
504 2010-12-25 16:55:58 <Diablo-D3> tesla or not
505 2010-12-25 16:55:58 <ArtForz> yep
506 2010-12-25 16:56:00 <Diablo-D3> per dollar too
507 2010-12-25 16:56:01 <genjix> INEEDMONEY: best place that offer in the marketplace.
508 2010-12-25 16:56:15 <Diablo-D3> if they made 1/2 DP performance possible
509 2010-12-25 16:56:22 <Diablo-D3> or even 1/3rd
510 2010-12-25 16:56:34 <Diablo-D3> (tie up 3 units, reuse a unit)
511 2010-12-25 16:56:45 <Diablo-D3> (so 4x units get ran 6x times)
512 2010-12-25 16:56:47 <ArtForz> it would wipe the floor with fermi
513 2010-12-25 16:57:00 <ArtForz> even non-crippled fermi aka tesla
514 2010-12-25 16:57:01 <Diablo-D3> AMD would get arrested for aggrivated rape.
515 2010-12-25 16:57:06 <INEEDMONEY> genjix: okay, thanks
516 2010-12-25 16:57:17 <Diablo-D3> actually, tying up 3 units, and reusing a unit could work here
517 2010-12-25 16:57:30 <Diablo-D3> you'd get 2x DP and 2x SP every two runs
518 2010-12-25 16:57:51 <Diablo-D3> so 1/3rd DP performance plus change
519 2010-12-25 16:58:24 <ArtForz> something like that
520 2010-12-25 16:58:46 <Diablo-D3> hrm
521 2010-12-25 16:58:47 <Diablo-D3> of course
522 2010-12-25 16:58:51 <ArtForz> of course even in this state VLIW4 looks great compared to fermi
523 2010-12-25 16:58:55 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
524 2010-12-25 16:58:57 <Diablo-D3> yeah
525 2010-12-25 16:59:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I think though
526 2010-12-25 16:59:07 <Diablo-D3> I'd like to see an experimental VLIW8
527 2010-12-25 16:59:32 <ArtForz> ~338 true GFLOPS DP on a 6970
528 2010-12-25 16:59:59 <ArtForz> 5870 is ~272
529 2010-12-25 17:00:11 <Diablo-D3> yeah thats like, what, 3x per dollar vs tesla, 2x per watt vs tesla?
530 2010-12-25 17:00:19 <ArtForz> fermi C2050 does ... 257.6
531 2010-12-25 17:00:38 <Diablo-D3> maybe closer to 4x per dollar vs tesla
532 2010-12-25 17:00:38 <ArtForz> a C2050 is like $2k
533 2010-12-25 17:00:48 <Diablo-D3> ... did I say 4x? I meant more like 10.
534 2010-12-25 17:00:57 <ArtForz> yep
535 2010-12-25 17:01:14 <ArtForz> for SP its a even more crazy gap
536 2010-12-25 17:01:31 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck does nvidia bother
537 2010-12-25 17:01:47 <Diablo-D3> its like throwing dodgeballs at a retarded kid, here
538 2010-12-25 17:01:59 <ArtForz> ~1352 GFLOPs for a 6970 vs. 515 for a fermi
539 2010-12-25 17:02:06 <Diablo-D3> dude
540 2010-12-25 17:02:06 <Diablo-D3> dude
541 2010-12-25 17:02:10 <Diablo-D3> what does a 6990 do
542 2010-12-25 17:02:15 <Diablo-D3> like 2400?
543 2010-12-25 17:02:18 <ArtForz> no one knows
544 2010-12-25 17:02:45 <Diablo-D3> if they underclocked them like 5970 did, its gotta be somewhere in the 2200-2400 realm
545 2010-12-25 17:02:49 <ArtForz> my guess is 6990 will be 2*1536SP @ 800
546 2010-12-25 17:03:07 <Diablo-D3> well maybe more like 2300-2500
547 2010-12-25 17:03:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: did you see that bug report?
548 2010-12-25 17:03:31 <Diablo-D3> it fails on one gpu, but not the other.
549 2010-12-25 17:03:43 <ArtForz> so ~2.45T SP and ~614G DP
550 2010-12-25 17:03:57 <Diablo-D3> jesus shit
551 2010-12-25 17:04:00 <Diablo-D3> you know what AMD needs to do?
552 2010-12-25 17:04:09 <Diablo-D3> engineer some sort of board that has a shitload of these on it
553 2010-12-25 17:04:21 <Diablo-D3> goes flat on the bottom of a 4U
554 2010-12-25 17:04:28 <Diablo-D3> and then on top of it is about 120 pounds of copper
555 2010-12-25 17:04:45 <ArtForz> ... weird bug
556 2010-12-25 17:05:04 <ArtForz> and why are there 2 mobile geforces?
557 2010-12-25 17:05:09 <Diablo-D3> yeah thats the thing
558 2010-12-25 17:05:16 <Diablo-D3> how did he get 2 mobiles, and why is only one working?
559 2010-12-25 17:05:45 * Diablo-D3 replies to that bug
560 2010-12-25 17:05:49 <ArtForz> I think I know whats going on
561 2010-12-25 17:05:56 <ArtForz> 9400M = IGP
562 2010-12-25 17:06:00 <ArtForz> 9600M GT = discrete
563 2010-12-25 17:06:07 <Diablo-D3> but why is OSX showing both?
564 2010-12-25 17:06:18 <ArtForz> fucked up switchable graphics?
565 2010-12-25 17:06:24 <Diablo-D3> huh.
566 2010-12-25 17:06:30 <Diablo-D3> I dont think Ill be able to fix this bug then
567 2010-12-25 17:06:33 <Diablo-D3> apple needs to
568 2010-12-25 17:06:40 <Diablo-D3> lets see what he replies
569 2010-12-25 17:07:21 <ArtForz> yep, MBP
570 2010-12-25 17:07:29 <Diablo-D3> huh.
571 2010-12-25 17:07:33 <ArtForz> mac book pro
572 2010-12-25 17:07:36 <ArtForz> 9400M IGP + 9600GT discrete
573 2010-12-25 17:07:42 <ArtForz> *9600M GT
574 2010-12-25 17:07:46 <Diablo-D3> thats kind of lousy
575 2010-12-25 17:07:50 <Diablo-D3> not really an upgrade at all
576 2010-12-25 17:08:12 <Diablo-D3> radeons can go further than that anyhow
577 2010-12-25 17:08:36 <ArtForz> well, 9600M GT is about 2.5x 9400M
578 2010-12-25 17:08:45 <Diablo-D3> you could have a mobile 5xxx, have it perform like that 9600m, use less watts, and then in power save mode, use watts like the 9400m
579 2010-12-25 17:09:03 <ArtForz> yep
580 2010-12-25 17:10:18 <Diablo-D3> I heard a rumor apple wants to drop all intel/nvidia solutions
581 2010-12-25 17:10:21 <Diablo-D3> and go straight amd/amd
582 2010-12-25 17:10:33 <Diablo-D3> because intel is trying to force apple into an intel/intel deal
583 2010-12-25 17:10:37 <ArtForz> ewww
584 2010-12-25 17:11:18 <ArtForz> especially eww for mac pros
585 2010-12-25 17:12:22 <Diablo-D3> yeah
586 2010-12-25 17:12:40 <Diablo-D3> a mac pro thats fitted with two of those new server fusion sockets would be rape happy
587 2010-12-25 17:13:19 <ArtForz> btw, I was kinda surprised by the Phenom II 125W boxed cooler
588 2010-12-25 17:13:32 <ArtForz> it's ... decent
589 2010-12-25 17:13:35 <Diablo-D3> lol
590 2010-12-25 17:13:41 <Diablo-D3> AMD has been doing decent on their boxed coolers
591 2010-12-25 17:13:43 <Diablo-D3> but lets face it
592 2010-12-25 17:13:49 <Diablo-D3> its not a replacement for 10 pounds of hsf
593 2010-12-25 17:13:59 <ArtForz> well, the boxed coolers on 95W A2-X2s suck
594 2010-12-25 17:14:21 <Diablo-D3> Im surprised they just dont ship ones for 125w across the board
595 2010-12-25 17:14:25 <Diablo-D3> it'd reduce costs
596 2010-12-25 17:14:31 <ArtForz> 25°C ambient + 100% CPU load = noisy little bastard
597 2010-12-25 17:14:46 <ArtForz> the 125W ones are a completely different design
598 2010-12-25 17:14:51 <Diablo-D3> huh
599 2010-12-25 17:14:56 <ArtForz> yep
600 2010-12-25 17:15:01 <Diablo-D3> maybe its the first of the new ones they will go with
601 2010-12-25 17:15:15 <ArtForz> 95W cooler is a simple copper-cored radial fin thingy
602 2010-12-25 17:15:55 <ArtForz> 125W is a dual heatpipe unit, similar to the boxed coolers on the old 125W Athlon64s
603 2010-12-25 17:17:29 <ArtForz> basically the new 95W cooler looks a lot like the C2D boxed cooler
604 2010-12-25 17:18:50 <ArtForz> http://images.ncix.com/forumimages/BF6008DC-8C6D-4F5E-BC9EB400523127CE.jpg
605 2010-12-25 17:19:18 <ArtForz> left is 125/140W, right is 65/95W
606 2010-12-25 17:22:04 <ArtForz> sure, it wont beat 2 pounds of tower cooler, but it's suprisingly good for a boxed cooler
607 2010-12-25 17:22:36 slush_cz has left ()
608 2010-12-25 17:22:38 <Diablo-D3> hrrm
609 2010-12-25 17:22:51 <Diablo-D3> the left one looks nicer
610 2010-12-25 17:22:59 <Diablo-D3> infact, thats pretty good
611 2010-12-25 17:23:09 <Diablo-D3> if I had one of those on a basic machine, I wouldnt change it
612 2010-12-25 17:24:17 <ArtForz> only kinda sucky part is the nonstandard 60mm fan
613 2010-12-25 17:25:48 <ArtForz> btw, have you seent he "handcrafted 6970" pics?
614 2010-12-25 17:25:59 <Diablo-D3> no
615 2010-12-25 17:26:36 <ArtForz> "minor" design flaw
616 2010-12-25 17:27:32 <Diablo-D3> btw, the guy who reported the bug confirms its a MBP with the dual shit
617 2010-12-25 17:27:57 <ArtForz> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263668
618 2010-12-25 17:28:26 <ArtForz> a true "shit hit the fan" moment :P
619 2010-12-25 17:28:30 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ahahahah
620 2010-12-25 17:28:32 <Diablo-D3> nice
621 2010-12-25 17:28:59 <Diablo-D3> btw, thats a pretty sexy looking card.
622 2010-12-25 17:29:42 <ArtForz> whats kinda interesting is that it has spots for 8 more ram chips on the backside
623 2010-12-25 17:30:10 <Diablo-D3> heeeee
624 2010-12-25 17:30:12 <ArtForz> 6970 currently uses 8 2Gbit chips
625 2010-12-25 17:30:21 <Diablo-D3> imagine if they have a 69xx mode that doubles the bus width
626 2010-12-25 17:30:42 <Diablo-D3> if I was the CEO of AMD, I'd call up the CEO of Nvidia, and just screw with him
627 2010-12-25 17:31:19 <Diablo-D3> "Hey man, whadja think of our new card?" "Fuck you." "Oh, and we already have a next version lined up... it doubles the bus bandwidth." "*suicide by gunshot*"
628 2010-12-25 17:31:21 <ArtForz> so I expect to see custom designs like 1GB 8*1Gbit 6950s, 2GB 16*1Gb 6970s and possibly 4GB 16*2Gbit 5970s
629 2010-12-25 17:31:37 <Diablo-D3> s/5970/6990/
630 2010-12-25 17:31:39 <ArtForz> yep
631 2010-12-25 17:31:43 <ArtForz> no, 6970
632 2010-12-25 17:31:54 <Diablo-D3> ahh
633 2010-12-25 17:32:37 <ArtForz> 6970 ref has 2GB as 8 * 2Gb, but has spots for 8 more ram chips ...
634 2010-12-25 17:33:01 <ArtForz> so a 4GB 6970 custom board wouldnt be too surprising
635 2010-12-25 17:33:30 <ArtForz> if they keep this up... 8GB 6970x2 ARESv2 anyone?
636 2010-12-25 17:33:44 <Diablo-D3> yeah but the problem is
637 2010-12-25 17:33:48 <Diablo-D3> you dont really NEED that much memory
638 2010-12-25 17:34:04 <Diablo-D3> your memory only needs to exceed your average texture set by 15% or so
639 2010-12-25 17:34:10 <ArtForz> well, we're already seeing games limited by 1GB/card
640 2010-12-25 17:34:19 <Diablo-D3> depends how you define "limited
641 2010-12-25 17:34:20 <Diablo-D3> "
642 2010-12-25 17:34:33 <Diablo-D3> not fitting every single last texture in isnt a limitation
643 2010-12-25 17:34:48 <ArtForz> "30% higher min framerate on same GPU with 2GB mem"
644 2010-12-25 17:34:54 <Diablo-D3> ... well fuck
645 2010-12-25 17:34:57 <Diablo-D3> its a limitation then
646 2010-12-25 17:36:24 <ArtForz> so if current high-end games push 1GB, we'll probably see the first "playable GPU-raping tech demo FPS" getting limited by 2GB in 12 months or so
647 2010-12-25 17:36:57 <ArtForz> and it gets worse as you push screen res up
648 2010-12-25 17:37:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah
649 2010-12-25 17:37:22 <Diablo-D3> its funny though
650 2010-12-25 17:37:29 <Diablo-D3> the game I wanna make wont have much textures.
651 2010-12-25 17:37:36 <ArtForz> probably because higher res = texs at higher mipmap level at same distance = more mem
652 2010-12-25 17:37:44 <Diablo-D3> yet completely fuck over gpus
653 2010-12-25 17:38:52 <Diablo-D3> heee
654 2010-12-25 17:38:54 <ArtForz> just use procedurally generated geometry and crank up the triangles, guaranteed to bring any GPU to its limits
655 2010-12-25 17:38:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I found my first block for the pool
656 2010-12-25 17:39:47 <edcba> happy blockday !
657 2010-12-25 17:40:51 altamic has joined
658 2010-12-25 17:42:10 <ArtForz> do not taunt super happy fun block!
659 2010-12-25 17:42:32 <Diablo-D3> lol
660 2010-12-25 17:43:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh, Im almost to 50 commits on the github repo
661 2010-12-25 17:44:33 <RichardG> if anyone here supports bittorrent as a legal platform for distribution of free software
662 2010-12-25 17:44:44 <RichardG> http://richardg.ath.cx:8080/bitcoin.torrent
663 2010-12-25 17:44:49 <RichardG> (yeah, bad ISP blocks port 80)
664 2010-12-25 17:44:57 <Diablo-D3> whats in the torrent?
665 2010-12-25 17:45:34 <RichardG> 0.3.19 all OSes
666 2010-12-25 17:52:29 AAA_awright_ has joined
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680 2010-12-25 19:08:26 shiva has joined
681 2010-12-25 19:08:33 <shiva> hi
682 2010-12-25 19:08:43 <shiva> any one here want to trade paypal to pokerstars ?
683 2010-12-25 19:08:47 <shiva> got references
684 2010-12-25 19:09:54 genjix is now known as blaadsds
685 2010-12-25 19:12:37 <shiva> hello
686 2010-12-25 19:12:46 shiva has quit (Client Quit)
687 2010-12-25 19:30:02 larsig has joined
688 2010-12-25 19:50:33 blaadsds is now known as genjix
689 2010-12-25 19:53:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, the guy with the bug found an app that fixes it
690 2010-12-25 19:53:51 <ArtForz> cool
691 2010-12-25 19:54:08 <ArtForz> check -mining ;)
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713 2010-12-25 21:17:15 <skull23> thanks for the boot ............ merry christmast to you to.
714 2010-12-25 21:17:29 <ne0futur> you re welcome
715 2010-12-25 21:17:47 <ne0futur> and yes you can advertise your services, but once an hour . . . seems much
716 2010-12-25 21:18:23 <skull23> I never said i was going to once an hour, you automatically assumed the worst from me. and took action.
717 2010-12-25 21:19:14 <ne0futur> you re not banned, just one kick to make you know there are admins in #bitcoin-otc
718 2010-12-25 21:19:39 <ne0futur> you could also think of registering to nickserv, get a cloak, and use the bot to advertise your services
719 2010-12-25 21:23:50 <skull23> how do  i get a cloak? theres only ghost for release of nickname
720 2010-12-25 21:28:12 asdf30 has joined
721 2010-12-25 21:31:50 <ne0futur> first you register with nickserv
722 2010-12-25 21:31:58 <ne0futur>  /msg nickserv help register
723 2010-12-25 21:32:04 <ne0futur>  /msg nickserv help identify
724 2010-12-25 21:32:27 <ne0futur> then you wait a few days and can go on #freenode and ask for a freenode admin to give you an unaffiliated cloak
725 2010-12-25 21:33:38 HarryS has joined
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734 2010-12-25 22:37:32 sipa1024 is now known as sipa
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740 2010-12-25 23:21:50 slush_cz is now known as slush
741 2010-12-25 23:22:01 slush is now known as slush_cz
742 2010-12-25 23:22:46 <sipa> tcatm: new graph, http://sipa.be/static/bc-speed.pdf
743 2010-12-25 23:22:57 <sipa> slush_cz: you threre?
744 2010-12-25 23:23:06 <slush_cz> yeo
745 2010-12-25 23:23:07 <slush_cz> yep
746 2010-12-25 23:23:50 <sipa> do you have any detailed statistics about the (difficulty 1) blocks calculated by your pool?
747 2010-12-25 23:24:06 <slush_cz> what do you mean by detailed stats?
748 2010-12-25 23:25:08 <sipa> if you're interested, i can make a graph of the estimated computation speed
749 2010-12-25 23:25:51 <Diablo-D3> slush_cz: I expect my 5 btc ;)
750 2010-12-25 23:25:59 * Diablo-D3 found his first pool block
751 2010-12-25 23:26:03 <sipa> and ideally: for each 'share' the time it was found
752 2010-12-25 23:26:10 <slush_cz> Diablo-D3: Not implemented yet ;)
753 2010-12-25 23:26:14 <Diablo-D3> :D
754 2010-12-25 23:26:26 <Diablo-D3> slush_cz: btw, the network thread is now absolutely totally shit proof
755 2010-12-25 23:26:28 <slush_cz> sipa: Which tool are you using?
756 2010-12-25 23:26:34 <sipa> slush_cz: something i wrote myself
757 2010-12-25 23:26:47 <Diablo-D3> slush_cz: Ive done over 1000 shares, and not one dupe came up
758 2010-12-25 23:27:03 <sipa> it estimates average speed and growth rate for a moving window of blocks, and combines those
759 2010-12-25 23:27:52 <slush_cz> sipa: I have some data (namely date/time when block was found and total shares needed to find it == approx. cluster speed), which should be quite easy to plot. Because I hate work with any graphic, I will probably use some google graphs or so
760 2010-12-25 23:28:03 <slush_cz> Diablo-D3: It looks pretty solid for me too
761 2010-12-25 23:28:20 <Diablo-D3> slush_cz: btw, you should add one field to the stats
762 2010-12-25 23:28:22 <sipa> slush_cz: but you don't have the time for each share?
763 2010-12-25 23:28:25 <Diablo-D3> slush_cz: total earned
764 2010-12-25 23:28:55 <slush_cz> sipa: Say there are 1-2 shares per second. Saving their timestamp is pointless
765 2010-12-25 23:29:07 <sipa> yes, i didn't expect you to
766 2010-12-25 23:29:12 <sipa> but it would have been nice :)
767 2010-12-25 23:29:49 <slush_cz> Diablo-D3: agree, I have some better stats in my head and I plan to improve it  soon
768 2010-12-25 23:30:19 <slush_cz> Diablo-D3: I will add performance history and also 'hall of fame' for top miners and so
769 2010-12-25 23:30:42 <slush_cz> Diablo-D3: 'Total earned' is quite easy to do- simply count blocks * 50 BTC :-D
770 2010-12-25 23:30:52 <slush_cz> sipa: What do you need for your stats?
771 2010-12-25 23:31:03 <slush_cz> sipa: There are already some numbers in json export
772 2010-12-25 23:31:12 <sipa> slush_cz: currently my input is a list of (time,difficulty)
773 2010-12-25 23:31:31 <slush_cz> sipa: So it is available on /stats/json/
774 2010-12-25 23:31:35 <sipa> let me see
775 2010-12-25 23:31:47 <sipa> slush_cz: btw, what do you do with blocks which have a transaction fee?
776 2010-12-25 23:32:26 <slush_cz> sipa: Now-nothing. I have earned 0.01 btc yet. I think it is nothing special to care about
777 2010-12-25 23:32:48 <slush_cz> sipa: Once it will be some significant amount, I will spread it between workers
778 2010-12-25 23:32:53 <sipa> ok great
779 2010-12-25 23:33:04 <sipa> i don't mind you keeping them for now, btw
780 2010-12-25 23:33:18 <sipa> you've put enough effort in it to keep something for yourself
781 2010-12-25 23:33:36 Bossbear has joined
782 2010-12-25 23:33:50 <slush_cz> sipa: I don't think fees will make any significant amount for few years ;)
783 2010-12-25 23:34:04 <sipa> no indeed
784 2010-12-25 23:34:17 <slush_cz> What do you all think about 5BTC reward for block founder?
785 2010-12-25 23:34:53 <slush_cz> It is quite delicate topic :)
786 2010-12-25 23:35:38 <sipa> i wouldn't mind 5-10 BTC for the one who finds the actual block
787 2010-12-25 23:35:44 <sipa> and 40-45 for the rest
788 2010-12-25 23:37:45 <sipa> if have too much time, you could always make an additional parameter "% contribution", if you set it to 100%, you don't keep anything from blocks you find yourself, and each of your shares count for 1; if you set it to 50%, you get to keep half of blocks you find, but your shares only count for 0.5, and so on
789 2010-12-25 23:39:36 <dsg> Why punish slower miners?
790 2010-12-25 23:39:43 <slush_cz> sipa: I want clear rules for anybody. Not exceptions for few users. This is also reason why I care about 5BTC, because I feel it is 'exception' for big players
791 2010-12-25 23:39:59 <dsg> slush_cz: I vote no, with the 3 blocks I've found for the pool :)
792 2010-12-25 23:40:25 <sipa> i understand that slower miners would be the ones with least benefit from it
793 2010-12-25 23:40:47 <sipa> and since the power of your system is precisely to make slower miners relevant still
794 2010-12-25 23:40:52 <slush_cz> dsg: because few players (say 10) are doing liquidity on pool. The rest ~100 users will never find a block in a days without those players
795 2010-12-25 23:41:16 <sipa> maybe there opinion is the most important
796 2010-12-25 23:41:57 <slush_cz> dsg: I also vote no (4 blocks already from me), but I think cluster performance dropped from 6ghash to 3ghash because this reason
797 2010-12-25 23:42:04 <dsg> slush_cz: Together the slower miners will find blocks regularly. And not everyone with good hardware makes that demand
798 2010-12-25 23:42:17 <sipa> s/there/their/
799 2010-12-25 23:42:27 <dsg> slush_cz: I'll connect my miner again if you're worried about performance
800 2010-12-25 23:42:53 <sipa> slush_cz: btw, would it be hard to keep the number of shares found each hour or so?
801 2010-12-25 23:43:35 <slush_cz> sipa: I think that block found dates are enough for performance calibration
802 2010-12-25 23:43:58 slush_cz is now known as slush
803 2010-12-25 23:44:25 <slush> test
804 2010-12-25 23:44:29 <slush> wow, I'm slush now
805 2010-12-25 23:44:33 <sipa> yes
806 2010-12-25 23:45:27 <ArtForz> well, sampling at lower difficulty should give less average error
807 2010-12-25 23:45:59 <slush> dsg: I just talked with few big miners and they told me what I said in forum. although it is quite irrational, I understand them
808 2010-12-25 23:46:04 <dsg> slush: Anyway, if you're planning to make this change please announce it clearly because it changes the pool from simple fair distribution to gambling, and that means I (and probably others) will want to withdraw from the pool.
809 2010-12-25 23:46:17 <dsg> So, there are mutually incompatible viewpoints.
810 2010-12-25 23:46:58 <dsg> I suspect you could run successful pools for both groups :)
811 2010-12-25 23:47:07 <slush> dsg: I will definitely announce all changes like this before
812 2010-12-25 23:48:41 <slush> dsg: But I'm still not OK with this. Depends what will people say in forum
813 2010-12-25 23:48:55 <sipa> ArtForz: yeah, hence the question
814 2010-12-25 23:49:18 <slush> sipa: Do you have enough data from json export?
815 2010-12-25 23:49:27 <sipa> slush: i can do something with it
816 2010-12-25 23:49:33 <slush> sipa: great
817 2010-12-25 23:50:00 <dsg> slush: I've added 175MH/s :)
818 2010-12-25 23:50:09 <slush> dsg: thx :)
819 2010-12-25 23:50:15 <sipa> i can count each block found by the pool as one with difficulty equal to the number of shares it required
820 2010-12-25 23:50:31 <sipa> since that is a very good estimate of how much work was spent during that period
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822 2010-12-25 23:52:36 <slush> Diablo-D3: Are you sure that parallel getwork calls was the reason?
823 2010-12-25 23:53:12 <Diablo-D3> slush: of what?
824 2010-12-25 23:53:18 <sipa> slush: oh, another question, what if i modified my client to send each found share twice
825 2010-12-25 23:53:19 <slush> Diablo-D3: of previous problems
826 2010-12-25 23:53:29 <sipa> would your software allow that?
827 2010-12-25 23:53:29 <Diablo-D3> slush: no, parallel getwork calls were 100% shit proof
828 2010-12-25 23:53:30 <slush> sipa: try it
829 2010-12-25 23:53:31 <slush> :)
830 2010-12-25 23:53:39 <Diablo-D3> slush: because getworks wernt shared between executors at all
831 2010-12-25 23:53:45 <Diablo-D3> slush: so no locking was required
832 2010-12-25 23:53:57 EvanR has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
833 2010-12-25 23:54:16 <sipa> slush: will i get banned? :p
834 2010-12-25 23:54:24 <slush> Diablo-D3: I'm asking if there is definitely no way to calculate same nonce by executors
835 2010-12-25 23:54:36 <slush> sipa: No, only shares will not be count :)
836 2010-12-25 23:54:43 <sipa> neither?
837 2010-12-25 23:54:49 <Diablo-D3> slush: the executors do push the nonce forward
838 2010-12-25 23:55:06 <slush> Diablo-D3: great, thanks
839 2010-12-25 23:55:08 <Diablo-D3> slush: the way it was, every executor did its own network shit, had its own getwork, had its own nonce
840 2010-12-25 23:55:30 <Diablo-D3> slush: but it used GPU*3x more network traffic
841 2010-12-25 23:55:31 <slush> sipa: neither
842 2010-12-25 23:55:56 <Diablo-D3> slush: but because of the network thread, I now have a unified getwork/nonce structure
843 2010-12-25 23:56:00 <slush> sipa: oh, those second atttemps will not be count, of course
844 2010-12-25 23:56:12 <slush> Diablo-D3: good to you :)
845 2010-12-25 23:56:15 <sipa> great, indeed :)
846 2010-12-25 23:56:18 <Diablo-D3> slush: the thread uses a lock on the network thread's copy of getwork to clone their own copy out
847 2010-12-25 23:56:22 <sipa> glad you thought about that :)
848 2010-12-25 23:56:26 <Diablo-D3> slush: er, the executor threads do that I mean
849 2010-12-25 23:56:59 <Diablo-D3> slush: so the executor threads do the clone, sometimes do the update, and its all synchronized so no thread can access the global getwork while another is
850 2010-12-25 23:56:59 <slush> Diablo-D3: got it
851 2010-12-25 23:57:25 <Diablo-D3> slush: so yes, it fixes the bug =P
852 2010-12-25 23:57:33 <Diablo-D3> this is why I didnt want to add the network thread btw
853 2010-12-25 23:57:40 <Diablo-D3> because I'd have to hammer this out
854 2010-12-25 23:58:00 <slush> Diablo-D3: but now it works perfectly :)
855 2010-12-25 23:58:09 <Diablo-D3> it worked perfectly before =P
856 2010-12-25 23:58:21 <slush> :)
857 2010-12-25 23:58:30 <Diablo-D3> actually, I should stop making NetworkState syncrhonized