1 2010-12-26 00:00:45 <slush> Diablo-D3: Do you have any calculated low-difficulty getwork to submit lying around?
   2 2010-12-26 00:01:06 <slush> I'm on shitty Atom netbook without any GPU and need hash to testing :-)
   3 2010-12-26 00:01:14 <slush> It takes hours to calculate even diff1 hash here
   4 2010-12-26 00:01:42 <sipa> what do you need?
   5 2010-12-26 00:02:28 <slush> sipa: Result from miner valid from difficulty 1 :)
   6 2010-12-26 00:02:34 <slush> from => for
   7 2010-12-26 00:02:50 <sipa> and what do you need from it?
   8 2010-12-26 00:03:01 <sipa> the sent work?
   9 2010-12-26 00:03:03 <slush> sipa: I need to submi
  10 2010-12-26 00:03:15 <slush> I need to submit it to my dev pool to test something
  11 2010-12-26 00:03:33 <slush> simply the string from miner
  12 2010-12-26 00:03:40 paul0 has joined
  13 2010-12-26 00:04:37 <sipa> one minute :)
  14 2010-12-26 00:05:55 <slush> sipa: thanks :)
  15 2010-12-26 00:05:57 <Diablo-D3> slush: er, huh?
  16 2010-12-26 00:06:09 <Diablo-D3> slush: do I have what?
  17 2010-12-26 00:06:25 <slush> sipa: Btw if you need more history from pool, add ?history= parameter; default is 20, you can increase up to 1000
  18 2010-12-26 00:06:40 <slush> Diablo-D3: Oh, nothing, sipa already sent me one :)
  19 2010-12-26 00:07:04 <Diablo-D3> that does what?
  20 2010-12-26 00:07:29 <sipa> just a valid calculated share
  21 2010-12-26 00:07:30 <slush> https://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/?history=1000
  22 2010-12-26 00:08:08 <sipa> slush: now modifying my program to use a file instead of getblock json calls
  23 2010-12-26 00:08:43 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
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  25 2010-12-26 00:16:20 <sipa> slush: the change you're proposing is effective equivalent to people letting their miner only connect to the pool for 90% of the time, and 10% to an own client
  26 2010-12-26 00:16:30 <slush> da2ce7: Hi, what do you think about proposal in pool forum?
  27 2010-12-26 00:16:32 <sipa> in the long run
  28 2010-12-26 00:17:30 <slush> sipa: not so clear. It depends on miner performance.
  29 2010-12-26 00:17:34 <ArtForz> which means in the long run everyone ends up with the same share
  30 2010-12-26 00:17:52 <slush> sipa: If you are strong guy, you can earn little more in pool
  31 2010-12-26 00:18:06 <ArtForz> which is kinda opposite the purpose of a pool
  32 2010-12-26 00:18:23 joe_1 has joined
  33 2010-12-26 00:19:12 <ArtForz> errr... no
  34 2010-12-26 00:19:21 <ArtForz> long term the distribution is exactly the same
  35 2010-12-26 00:19:34 <sipa> slush: on average it doesn't matter in the real long term
  36 2010-12-26 00:19:44 <slush> Current fair share is something like 'faucet' for small guys. I think it can be annoying for players with many blocks they have to divide with many many others
  37 2010-12-26 00:20:03 <slush> sipa: I agree. Tell it to other people :)
  38 2010-12-26 00:20:35 <ArtForz> and why even bother with a pool if you have enough hashrate to find several blocks/day?
  39 2010-12-26 00:20:45 <sipa> indeed
  40 2010-12-26 00:21:02 <sipa> i'm inclined to vote against the change now
  41 2010-12-26 00:21:13 <sipa> it may scare away bigger players
  42 2010-12-26 00:21:30 <Kiba> the bigger players could pool their resources...
  43 2010-12-26 00:21:34 <slush> This is only something satoshi proposed. personally I'm not fully confident
  44 2010-12-26 00:21:56 <sipa> but they will survive on their own, and keep it a nicer place for those who are either trusting statistics or only have little processing power :)
  45 2010-12-26 00:22:12 <Diablo-D3> slush: you know what Im thinking?
  46 2010-12-26 00:22:20 <slush> Diablo-D3: tell me
  47 2010-12-26 00:22:22 <Diablo-D3> slush: every winner block gets 4BTC, and I get 1.
  48 2010-12-26 00:22:29 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  49 2010-12-26 00:23:17 <Kiba> in the future
  50 2010-12-26 00:23:22 <Kiba> people will barely work
  51 2010-12-26 00:23:28 <Kiba> as they know deflation will take care of itself
  52 2010-12-26 00:23:38 <ArtForz> btw, fast miners also *have* to send quite a few getworks
  53 2010-12-26 00:23:41 <skull23> Whats the best methode to making bitcoins atm?
  54 2010-12-26 00:23:42 <slush> Diablo-D3: 'I get 1' you mean "i" as you? :)
  55 2010-12-26 00:24:09 <slush> skull23: selling goods and services
  56 2010-12-26 00:24:21 <sipa> slush: buying them :)
  57 2010-12-26 00:24:22 * Kiba is working on goods to sell
  58 2010-12-26 00:24:23 <sipa> oh
  59 2010-12-26 00:24:24 <Diablo-D3> slush: yes.
  60 2010-12-26 00:24:28 <sipa> skull23: buying them :)
  61 2010-12-26 00:24:45 <Diablo-D3> [07:21:20] <ArtForz> btw, fast miners also *have* to send quite a few getworks
  62 2010-12-26 00:24:46 <Diablo-D3> yes
  63 2010-12-26 00:25:20 <ArtForz> yep, 4/sec @ 16GH/s just to not run out of nonces
  64 2010-12-26 00:25:39 <Diablo-D3> heh
  65 2010-12-26 00:25:47 <Diablo-D3> thats why my miner has VERY careful nonce checking
  66 2010-12-26 00:26:00 <Diablo-D3> otherwise you could easily shoot yourself in the foot
  67 2010-12-26 00:28:08 x6763 has joined
  68 2010-12-26 00:28:47 <ArtForz> well, I solved it in a pretty simple fashion in my push based getwork equiv
  69 2010-12-26 00:29:11 <Diablo-D3> I solved it easily in my design
  70 2010-12-26 00:29:15 <ArtForz> each connected miner gets its own privkey = merkle root
  71 2010-12-26 00:29:46 <ArtForz> I share a connection between GPU threads, so max I have appearing as one miner is 4 5970s
  72 2010-12-26 00:30:23 <ArtForz> nTime is updated every second anyways, so I have plenty of headroom
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  89 2010-12-26 00:47:20 <slush> dsg: Thanks for comment on forum.
  90 2010-12-26 00:47:46 <slush> dsg: But could you edit it and short quoted text a bit, please?
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  92 2010-12-26 00:52:17 <dsg> slush: Done
  93 2010-12-26 00:52:29 <slush> thx
  94 2010-12-26 00:55:29 <slush> thanks to opinions. I become more critical to my proposal now. Fairness should be really primary concern of grid, more than feelings of few big miners
  95 2010-12-26 00:55:49 <slush> We will see what others will write to forum.
  96 2010-12-26 00:55:59 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  97 2010-12-26 00:56:01 <slush> Now I go sleep, bye!
  98 2010-12-26 00:56:20 <dsg> gn
  99 2010-12-26 00:56:54 slush has left ()
 100 2010-12-26 00:57:10 EvanR has joined
 101 2010-12-26 00:59:45 <sipa> i should modify things still to get nicer results for the more variable data for bpm, but still: http://sipa.be/static/bpm-speed.pdf
 102 2010-12-26 01:05:50 * Kiba grins as he have a shitload of saving
 103 2010-12-26 01:11:37 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 104 2010-12-26 01:12:12 <Kiba> Merry Christmas everyone
 105 2010-12-26 01:15:56 MJD has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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 120 2010-12-26 01:54:49 sjaak has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 121 2010-12-26 02:01:48 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
 122 2010-12-26 02:01:49 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.25,"low":0.2475,"vol":703,"buy":0.2464,"sell":0.2499,"last":0.2499}}
 123 2010-12-26 02:03:50 genjix has joined
 124 2010-12-26 02:04:18 <genjix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhgXAABm-M0
 125 2010-12-26 02:04:25 <genjix> found that on bitcoin forums XD
 126 2010-12-26 02:04:27 <genjix> soo cool
 127 2010-12-26 02:05:15 warner has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
 128 2010-12-26 02:05:42 <genjix> wtf warner using emacs for irc...
 129 2010-12-26 02:06:13 RichardG has joined
 130 2010-12-26 02:09:11 <Cusipzzz> lol
 131 2010-12-26 02:11:26 <Cusipzzz> what doesn't emacs do?!
 132 2010-12-26 02:12:49 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 133 2010-12-26 02:13:15 <tcatm> It doesn't generate bitcoins yet...
 134 2010-12-26 02:13:52 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
 135 2010-12-26 02:14:10 RichardG has joined
 136 2010-12-26 02:15:26 <Cusipzzz> soon
 137 2010-12-26 02:17:28 <tcatm> typed rm instead of mv :/
 138 2010-12-26 02:17:59 <Cusipzzz> oof
 139 2010-12-26 02:18:38 * tcatm restores backup
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 151 2010-12-26 03:35:52 newsham_ is now known as newsham
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 153 2010-12-26 04:05:15 <genjix> so i just found out about ctrl+z sending apps to the background in the terminal
 154 2010-12-26 04:05:23 <genjix> how can i bring them back up/
 155 2010-12-26 04:05:24 <genjix> ?
 156 2010-12-26 04:05:28 INEEDMONEY is now known as ILIKEMONEY
 157 2010-12-26 04:05:35 ILIKEMONEY is now known as INEEDMONEY
 158 2010-12-26 04:05:41 <BoBeR> kill it
 159 2010-12-26 04:05:43 <BoBeR> restart it
 160 2010-12-26 04:05:55 <BoBeR> or some secret linux codes
 161 2010-12-26 04:06:19 INEEDMONEY is now known as ILIKEMONEY
 162 2010-12-26 04:06:32 * Kiba slaps BoBeR with a large trout
 163 2010-12-26 04:06:40 <BoBeR> hai
 164 2010-12-26 04:06:45 <BoBeR> what up kiba
 165 2010-12-26 04:06:48 ILIKEMONEY is now known as INEEDMONEY
 166 2010-12-26 04:06:52 <BoBeR> and mIRC is for losers
 167 2010-12-26 04:07:10 <Kiba> I don't use mIRC
 168 2010-12-26 04:07:12 <Kiba> I used emacs!\
 169 2010-12-26 04:07:22 <BoBeR> i use butterflys
 170 2010-12-26 04:07:39 <BoBeR> or a needle and a steady hand to flip the bits on my hdd
 171 2010-12-26 04:07:56 <Kiba> M-x irc-with-needle does that
 172 2010-12-26 04:08:03 <genjix> screen -mdS i irssi
 173 2010-12-26 04:08:06 <genjix> screen -r
 174 2010-12-26 04:08:20 <genjix> close terminal, then run screen -r again :)
 175 2010-12-26 04:08:30 <BoBeR> xkcd ftw
 176 2010-12-26 04:09:16 <genjix> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1075
 177 2010-12-26 04:09:21 <genjix> this script is the best!
 178 2010-12-26 04:10:05 <BoBeR> "rm -f /" is the best script
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 202 2010-12-26 06:20:14 <INEEDMONEY> guys
 203 2010-12-26 06:20:17 <INEEDMONEY> you just abolished stealing
 204 2010-12-26 06:20:27 <INEEDMONEY> it will become economically unfeasible
 205 2010-12-26 06:21:24 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 206 2010-12-26 06:23:53 <nanotube> genjix: to bring back a backgrounded app, use 'fg'
 207 2010-12-26 06:24:09 <genjix> yep learnt about all now :)
 208 2010-12-26 06:24:18 <genjix> been using screen all these years
 209 2010-12-26 06:24:30 <genjix> shocking
 210 2010-12-26 06:24:51 <nanotube> screen is nice :)
 211 2010-12-26 06:26:24 <INEEDMONEY> screen is beautiful
 212 2010-12-26 06:26:33 <INEEDMONEY> an elegant artwork of logic
 213 2010-12-26 06:26:43 <INEEDMONEY> tremendously useful
 214 2010-12-26 06:28:30 <genjix> INEEDMONEY: today for the first time i found out about ctrl+z, fg & jobs... more handy when hacking in vim than having to remember to start my screen sessions.
 215 2010-12-26 06:28:47 <INEEDMONEY> dude
 216 2010-12-26 06:28:49 <INEEDMONEY> absolutely!
 217 2010-12-26 06:28:52 <INEEDMONEY> I love fg
 218 2010-12-26 06:29:01 <INEEDMONEY> I just learned about it, too
 219 2010-12-26 06:29:04 <INEEDMONEY> like in the past month
 220 2010-12-26 06:29:33 <genjix> heh i been using linux for 10 years and never knew this really handy command...
 221 2010-12-26 06:31:02 <Kiba> hmm
 222 2010-12-26 06:31:06 <Kiba> do you use xmonad?
 223 2010-12-26 06:31:21 <genjix> no awesome.
 224 2010-12-26 06:31:22 * Kiba ponders of translating western comics into Japanese
 225 2010-12-26 06:31:40 <Kiba> xmonad is not awesome? ;_;
 226 2010-12-26 06:31:50 <Kiba> bidirectional...cultural exchange
 227 2010-12-26 06:31:50 <genjix> no they're different.
 228 2010-12-26 06:32:01 <Kiba> maybe
 229 2010-12-26 06:32:13 <Kiba> we could set up a bidirectional cultural exchange operation
 230 2010-12-26 06:32:13 ThomasV has joined
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 232 2010-12-26 06:49:29 <da2ce7> hey, anyone have a graph of the real bitcoins generated over time?
 233 2010-12-26 06:49:48 <genjix> da2ce7: yep its on wikipedia
 234 2010-12-26 06:49:49 <da2ce7> not the idealized 6*50/h
 235 2010-12-26 06:49:52 <genjix> oh
 236 2010-12-26 06:50:21 <nanotube> da2ce7: well... it's probably "relatively close" to the idealized one. :)
 237 2010-12-26 06:50:46 <da2ce7> I'm just trying to calulate 'market cap' in USD over time
 238 2010-12-26 06:52:25 <da2ce7> hmm, well if it hasn't been made yet, I put a 50BTC bounty out on that graph. :)
 239 2010-12-26 06:53:27 <da2ce7> but it needs to be good quality, like tcatm's graphs on bitcoincharts.com
 240 2010-12-26 06:54:09 * Kiba ponders
 241 2010-12-26 06:54:27 <Kiba> what make Japanese comics so popular to western audience?
 242 2010-12-26 06:54:49 <da2ce7> kiba, easy, big boobs.
 243 2010-12-26 06:55:53 <Kiba> AMerican comics have big boobs, too
 244 2010-12-26 06:56:20 <da2ce7> kiba, big boobs, and short skirts.
 245 2010-12-26 06:56:34 <Kiba> ...
 246 2010-12-26 06:58:32 <Diablo-D3> did someone way boobs?
 247 2010-12-26 06:59:05 <da2ce7> and short skirts.
 248 2010-12-26 07:00:28 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: did ya answer my email?
 249 2010-12-26 07:08:28 <INEEDMONEY> MT`AwAy: is busy right now
 250 2010-12-26 07:14:34 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 251 2010-12-26 07:20:42 RazielZ has joined
 252 2010-12-26 07:38:17 <dduane> genjix:  if you like those, check out screen
 253 2010-12-26 07:38:53 <dduane> it allows you to have multiple terminals/screens open from the same login
 254 2010-12-26 07:39:20 <mizerydearia> There is something like screen.  Anyone know the name?
 255 2010-12-26 07:43:12 <mizerydearia> maybe tmux
 256 2010-12-26 07:43:32 <mizerydearia> yep
 257 2010-12-26 07:44:15 <mizerydearia> http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Screen_vs_tmux
 258 2010-12-26 07:44:29 <BoBeR> crtl f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
 259 2010-12-26 07:44:30 <BoBeR> all them
 260 2010-12-26 07:44:33 <BoBeR> lots of logins
 261 2010-12-26 07:44:57 <BoBeR> ;;block
 262 2010-12-26 07:44:58 <gribble> Error: "block" is not a valid command.
 263 2010-12-26 07:45:01 <BoBeR> ;;blocks
 264 2010-12-26 07:45:01 <gribble> Error: "blocks" is not a valid command.
 265 2010-12-26 07:45:08 <BoBeR> ;;bc,blocks
 266 2010-12-26 07:45:09 <gribble> 99466
 267 2010-12-26 07:45:17 <BoBeR> how long has it been like that
 268 2010-12-26 07:51:06 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, 99466 block was found at timestamp 1293347377.  Right now is 1293349719
 269 2010-12-26 07:51:15 <mizerydearia> ;;math calc 1293349719 - 1293347377
 270 2010-12-26 07:51:15 <gribble> 2342
 271 2010-12-26 07:51:36 <BoBeR> ;;math calc 2342 / 60
 272 2010-12-26 07:51:36 <gribble> 39.0333333333
 273 2010-12-26 07:51:59 <BoBeR> 40 minuits for one block is a bit of a stretch
 274 2010-12-26 07:52:10 <BoBeR> ideally its 10
 275 2010-12-26 07:52:12 <mizerydearia> Which could imply that a lot of nodes disappeared
 276 2010-12-26 07:52:21 <BoBeR> and we where always generating above that
 277 2010-12-26 07:52:31 <BoBeR> so thats a good 25% of the network gone in one move
 278 2010-12-26 07:52:41 <BoBeR> did artforz die or something
 279 2010-12-26 07:52:49 <BoBeR> or all the pools crash
 280 2010-12-26 07:52:57 <BoBeR> maybe the government started ddosing nodes
 281 2010-12-26 07:53:03 <BoBeR> CONSPIRACYS
 282 2010-12-26 07:53:45 <BoBeR> ;;bc,blocks
 283 2010-12-26 07:53:46 <gribble> 99467
 284 2010-12-26 07:53:48 <BoBeR> lol
 285 2010-12-26 07:53:49 AAA_awright_ has joined
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 287 2010-12-26 07:57:42 <chuck251> it's also christmas, prob. many people away / turned off their machines
 288 2010-12-26 07:58:17 <Kiba> we still break record!
 289 2010-12-26 07:58:21 <Kiba> 7000 posts within a month!
 290 2010-12-26 07:58:50 <ne0futur> wish for 2011 : btc goes past 0.29 on ntgox !
 291 2010-12-26 07:59:16 * Kiba wish for 2011 : MOAR bitcoin markets for moar things!
 292 2010-12-26 07:59:33 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 293 2010-12-26 07:59:42 <ne0futur> Kiba: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1687.0
 294 2010-12-26 07:59:43 <bitbot> GNU/Linux, hosting and other web services for BitCoins
 295 2010-12-26 07:59:46 <ne0futur> i cont do more right now
 296 2010-12-26 08:00:11 <ne0futur> well theres also 20 k ads print 7 day on #bitcoin-ads
 297 2010-12-26 08:00:58 genjix has joined
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 299 2010-12-26 08:00:58 genjix has joined
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 301 2010-12-26 08:06:56 <Sherpa> http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/02/11/chip-and-pin-is-broken/
 302 2010-12-26 08:08:52 <ne0futur> ECPM cost
 303 2010-12-26 08:08:58 <ne0futur> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cost_per_mille
 304 2010-12-26 08:09:04 <meatpopsicle> nice link Sherpa
 305 2010-12-26 08:14:08 genjix has joined
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 309 2010-12-26 09:05:25 <ne0futur> Kiba: coud also be before 2011
 310 2010-12-26 09:05:28 <ne0futur> :p
 311 2010-12-26 09:05:34 <ne0futur> anyway happy new year to all
 312 2010-12-26 09:05:39 <ne0futur> see ya in 2011
 313 2010-12-26 09:05:48 <ne0futur> love choice and faith
 314 2010-12-26 09:05:50 <ne0futur> with tim
 315 2010-12-26 09:05:54 <ne0futur> with time
 316 2010-12-26 09:06:05 <ne0futur> my with for BTC economy and for you all !
 317 2010-12-26 09:07:38 <nathan7> :O
 318 2010-12-26 09:07:43 <nathan7> ..HEY, MY OPS
 319 2010-12-26 09:07:56 <nathan7> nanotube!
 320 2010-12-26 09:08:01 <nathan7> nameless|!
 321 2010-12-26 09:08:03 <nathan7> Xunie!
 322 2010-12-26 09:08:07 * nathan7 hops around impatiently
 323 2010-12-26 09:13:16 <Xunie> nathan7!
 324 2010-12-26 09:13:57 <nathan7> :D
 325 2010-12-26 09:14:58 <ne0futur> f you need more ircops here just ask
 326 2010-12-26 09:15:10 * ne0futur happy to see an op here :p
 327 2010-12-26 09:15:45 <ne0futur>  better have acces list and /msg chanserv op _you_
 328 2010-12-26 09:16:36 * ne0futur /msg chanserv access #bitcoin-dev list
 329 2010-12-26 09:17:14 <genjix> it's not in compliance with freenode policy for ops to remain as operators 24/7
 330 2010-12-26 09:17:32 <ne0futur> sure
 331 2010-12-26 09:17:35 <genjix> you're supposed to invoke them as needed and then drop it again.
 332 2010-12-26 09:17:57 <ne0futur> but its good to have someone 24/24 that can  /msg chanserv op _you_
 333 2010-12-26 09:18:14 <ne0futur> 4 people on the access list
 334 2010-12-26 09:18:18 <genjix> why?
 335 2010-12-26 09:18:31 <ne0futur> yu dunno what couls happen on a irc channel
 336 2010-12-26 09:19:00 <ne0futur> how many bots, how muh flooding to stop information
 337 2010-12-26 09:19:08 <ne0futur> how much spam ?
 338 2010-12-26 09:19:18 <ne0futur> orscam ?
 339 2010-12-26 09:19:23 <genjix> nevermind... can't be bothered to re-explain to you.
 340 2010-12-26 09:19:44 <ne0futur> just answering you "why"
 341 2010-12-26 09:19:46 <ne0futur> sorry
 342 2010-12-26 09:19:51 <ne0futur> n8
 343 2010-12-26 09:20:21 <ne0futur> i shouldnt have answered your "why" you seem not to like it
 344 2010-12-26 09:20:35 <ne0futur> dont bother :p
 345 2010-12-26 09:25:32 * ne0futur invites any #bc-#bc-news 
 346 2010-12-26 09:25:47 * ne0futur invites any #bitcoin-dev op to join jus on #bc-news 
 347 2010-12-26 09:25:56 * ne0futur tired goes to sleep
 348 2010-12-26 09:26:05 <ne0futur> see you all in 2011
 349 2010-12-26 09:39:19 Raulo has joined
 350 2010-12-26 09:40:16 <Raulo> da2ce7: I created a plot of bitcoin economy size
 351 2010-12-26 09:40:56 <Raulo> http://bitcoin.atspace.com/economy.png
 352 2010-12-26 09:41:45 <Raulo> It's not very much different from the trade data because the number of bitcoins in circulation grows rather slowly
 353 2010-12-26 09:45:37 <Raulo> Here is the raw data: http://bitcoin.atspace.com/tradesblock.txt.gz
 354 2010-12-26 09:45:58 <Raulo> Timestamp trade_price block_last_seen
 355 2010-12-26 09:47:07 <Raulo> Economy_size=tradeprice*block_last_seen*50
 356 2010-12-26 09:48:44 <BoBeR> nothing new
 357 2010-12-26 09:48:49 <Raulo> My address: 1D5xaqev6rDt5Z4em9f7KT9Ymug6uDScau
 358 2010-12-26 09:57:09 <Raulo> ;;bc,stats
 359 2010-12-26 09:57:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99477 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 1322 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 20 hours, 15 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15058.10126848
 360 2010-12-26 10:13:01 warner has joined
 361 2010-12-26 10:21:01 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 362 2010-12-26 10:28:23 <INEEDMONEY> anyone still awake?
 363 2010-12-26 10:31:50 chuck251 has quit ()
 364 2010-12-26 10:39:18 scibotic has joined
 365 2010-12-26 10:50:50 <sipa> no
 366 2010-12-26 10:51:55 <scibotic> maybe
 367 2010-12-26 10:55:27 <INEEDMONEY> oh
 368 2010-12-26 10:55:30 <INEEDMONEY> I just wanted to say sorry
 369 2010-12-26 10:55:38 <INEEDMONEY> for being so annoying in here and in the bitcoin community
 370 2010-12-26 10:57:12 <genjix> 1WaEzYXMjT6gk4wttK2U4MirvZ4Yt43Zp
 371 2010-12-26 10:57:26 <genjix> 5 btc for apology acceptances.
 372 2010-12-26 10:58:13 <INEEDMONEY> -_-
 373 2010-12-26 10:58:19 <INEEDMONEY> the syndicate doesn't have that much money
 374 2010-12-26 10:58:22 <INEEDMONEY> I need ADD medication
 375 2010-12-26 10:59:05 <INEEDMONEY> but I can bay you 10 bitcoin if you can come up with a good name for my bong
 376 2010-12-26 10:59:26 <genjix> soros = esperanto for will soar in the future
 377 2010-12-26 10:59:33 <genjix> luma = esperanto for shining
 378 2010-12-26 10:59:45 <INEEDMONEY> gotta say that in my channel
 379 2010-12-26 11:16:30 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 380 2010-12-26 11:17:31 <INEEDMONEY> genjix hates free money
 381 2010-12-26 11:17:38 <INEEDMONEY> who doesn't hate free money?
 382 2010-12-26 11:17:51 <genjix> last word bitch.
 383 2010-12-26 11:17:53 <scibotic> I hatae free money.
 384 2010-12-26 11:17:59 <scibotic> hate*
 385 2010-12-26 11:18:00 <genjix> HAHAHAHA
 386 2010-12-26 11:18:08 <INEEDMONEY> PM me your bitcoin address
 387 2010-12-26 11:18:09 <INEEDMONEY> free money
 388 2010-12-26 11:18:16 <scibotic> No.
 389 2010-12-26 11:18:16 <genjix> ^ scam.
 390 2010-12-26 11:18:44 <INEEDMONEY> -_- I cannot scam you that way
 391 2010-12-26 11:18:47 <INEEDMONEY> bitcoin doesn't work that way
 392 2010-12-26 11:18:56 <genjix> you scammed me of my precious time.
 393 2010-12-26 11:18:59 <scibotic> Free cash doesn't bring me comfort, stable income from my craft does.
 394 2010-12-26 11:19:03 <INEEDMONEY> you never gave me your address
 395 2010-12-26 11:19:10 <INEEDMONEY> scibotic: I want to bring your craft to my syndicate
 396 2010-12-26 11:19:16 <scibotic> No.
 397 2010-12-26 11:19:20 <scibotic> ^ scam.
 398 2010-12-26 11:19:22 <INEEDMONEY> then fuck all yall niggas
 399 2010-12-26 11:19:26 <INEEDMONEY> im outta here
 400 2010-12-26 11:19:31 <genjix> scibotic: what's your 'craft'?
 401 2010-12-26 11:19:39 devon_hillard has joined
 402 2010-12-26 11:19:40 <INEEDMONEY> make your own fucking syndicate
 403 2010-12-26 11:19:41 <scibotic> Illustration
 404 2010-12-26 11:19:44 <genjix> sounds like you're a carpenter
 405 2010-12-26 11:19:47 <devon_hillard> is anyone else running a miner from windows?
 406 2010-12-26 11:19:49 <genjix> ohh
 407 2010-12-26 11:19:53 <INEEDMONEY> I already have two illustrators
 408 2010-12-26 11:20:03 <INEEDMONEY> want to work on a project with them?
 409 2010-12-26 11:20:08 <INEEDMONEY> can you do flash art?
 410 2010-12-26 11:20:14 <scibotic> No.
 411 2010-12-26 11:20:14 <genjix> loool flash
 412 2010-12-26 11:20:24 <scibotic> No as in I don't want to work with them.
 413 2010-12-26 11:20:28 <INEEDMONEY> website advertisements?
 414 2010-12-26 11:20:34 <scibotic> No.
 415 2010-12-26 11:20:38 <INEEDMONEY> what kind of illustration
 416 2010-12-26 11:20:42 <INEEDMONEY> concept art for video games?
 417 2010-12-26 11:20:46 <genjix> scibotic: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0
 418 2010-12-26 11:20:48 <bitbot> artist and animator
 419 2010-12-26 11:21:01 <scibotic> Concept art is one of the many things you can do with the same skillset.
 420 2010-12-26 11:26:05 <scibotic> I can't take on anything that doesn't pay decently for my time, I have a lot to deal with right now.
 421 2010-12-26 11:26:19 Raulo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 422 2010-12-26 11:29:08 <scibotic> Wow this channel is quiet.
 423 2010-12-26 11:29:57 <genjix> christmas :p
 424 2010-12-26 11:30:53 RichardG has joined
 425 2010-12-26 11:30:53 RichardG has quit (Changing host)
 426 2010-12-26 11:30:53 RichardG has joined
 427 2010-12-26 11:30:54 <scibotic> Was just worried that there might've been some collateral when I put INEED on ignore.
 428 2010-12-26 11:38:51 <lfm> naw he left
 429 2010-12-26 11:40:24 <lfm> you should never worry about using /ignore. it defeats the purpose! :-)
 430 2010-12-26 11:42:28 <scibotic> Only a problem when the channel suddenly goes silent after I do said command. :P
 431 2010-12-26 11:43:19 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 432 2010-12-26 11:59:34 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 433 2010-12-26 12:16:13 RichardG has joined
 434 2010-12-26 12:16:13 RichardG has quit (Changing host)
 435 2010-12-26 12:16:13 RichardG has joined
 436 2010-12-26 12:17:24 scibotic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 437 2010-12-26 12:28:58 StrangeCharm has left ()
 438 2010-12-26 12:36:16 StrangeCharm has joined
 439 2010-12-26 12:47:58 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 440 2010-12-26 12:48:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99502 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 1297 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 14 hours, 4 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15203.56879639
 441 2010-12-26 12:48:22 <sipa> will there be a 100000-block party?
 442 2010-12-26 12:51:12 <lfm> good idea
 443 2010-12-26 12:51:49 TD has joined
 444 2010-12-26 12:52:07 <lfm> it might be on the new year ( but probably before I guess)
 445 2010-12-26 12:52:20 <TD> what might cause a transaction i've sent to not make it into any blocks? i mean, i understand the protocols and that inv propagation is not really guaranteed, but i've missed several blocks now
 446 2010-12-26 12:53:18 <lfm> td could be just real bad luck I spoze. is there anything special about the txn?
 447 2010-12-26 12:53:25 <TD> no
 448 2010-12-26 12:53:32 <TD> it's only for 2 coins
 449 2010-12-26 12:53:40 <TD> but i guess that shouldn't matter
 450 2010-12-26 12:53:52 <lfm> is it sepnding coins that have been fully confirmed?
 451 2010-12-26 12:53:57 <TD> yes
 452 2010-12-26 12:54:02 <TD> maybe i need to include a fee
 453 2010-12-26 12:54:05 <BoBeR> no
 454 2010-12-26 12:54:11 <BoBeR> fees are still useless
 455 2010-12-26 12:54:20 <lfm> I dont think a fee should be needed.
 456 2010-12-26 12:54:28 <BoBeR> whats the confirmation on the sent coins
 457 2010-12-26 12:54:30 <TD> ok, that's what i thought ..... still lots of generators not requiring them
 458 2010-12-26 12:54:33 <BoBeR> are you sure the address is worknig
 459 2010-12-26 12:54:44 <TD> 952 confirmations
 460 2010-12-26 12:54:51 <BoBeR> then its sent
 461 2010-12-26 12:55:07 <lfm> you can look at the block browser to see if there is any odd activity going on that might explain it
 462 2010-12-26 12:55:18 <TD> yeah i looked at the explorer. everything looks normal
 463 2010-12-26 12:55:24 <BoBeR> then its sent
 464 2010-12-26 12:55:27 <BoBeR> i dont see the problem
 465 2010-12-26 12:55:31 <TD> BoBeR: i mean the previous tx is 952 confirmations. the one i just sent now is sitting at zero
 466 2010-12-26 12:55:39 <TD> i guess it's indeed just bad luck
 467 2010-12-26 12:55:47 <BoBeR> ;;bc,blocks
 468 2010-12-26 12:55:47 <gribble> 99504
 469 2010-12-26 12:55:54 <BoBeR> hmm its been slow today
 470 2010-12-26 12:56:01 <BoBeR> new blocks took 40 min at times
 471 2010-12-26 12:56:08 <lfm> if you like to tell us the address we can watch for it
 472 2010-12-26 12:56:11 <TD> lots of nodes offline at christmas i guess
 473 2010-12-26 12:56:12 <BoBeR> it seems ~20 % of the network died
 474 2010-12-26 12:56:15 <TD> well i can tail the block explorer
 475 2010-12-26 12:56:22 <TD> so no problem
 476 2010-12-26 12:56:44 <BoBeR> well
 477 2010-12-26 12:56:50 <BoBeR> you can always sed money to us
 478 2010-12-26 12:56:52 <TD> heh
 479 2010-12-26 12:56:54 <lfm> you should be able to see whats happening in your debug.log too
 480 2010-12-26 12:56:58 <TD> yeah
 481 2010-12-26 12:57:04 <TD> watching that. i can see my client sending invs
 482 2010-12-26 12:57:05 <BoBeR> its 8 am should i go to sleep or make break fast
 483 2010-12-26 12:57:07 <TD> just have to wait i suppose
 484 2010-12-26 12:58:01 <TD> ;;bc,stats
 485 2010-12-26 12:58:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99504 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 1295 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 13 hours, 24 minutes, and 5 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15236.68581199
 486 2010-12-26 12:59:00 <lfm> td it seems some miners are getting kinda lazy about keeping up with transactionsa
 487 2010-12-26 12:59:14 <TD> hmm
 488 2010-12-26 12:59:25 <TD> like maybe slushs pool isn't distributing transactions quickly enough or something
 489 2010-12-26 12:59:58 <sipa> what do you mean by distributing transactions?
 490 2010-12-26 13:00:07 <TD> to the mining nodes
 491 2010-12-26 13:00:33 <sipa> ?
 492 2010-12-26 13:00:39 <TD> ignore me .....
 493 2010-12-26 13:00:41 <sipa> it's the mining nodes that ask for work
 494 2010-12-26 13:00:46 <sipa> from the pool
 495 2010-12-26 13:01:27 <lfm> not sure exactly and it may be just my immagination. perhaps a fee might help for such situations but if you already sent yours its too late to add a fee now
 496 2010-12-26 13:02:18 <sipa> i'm not sure what you're talking about
 497 2010-12-26 13:02:30 <lfm> sipa: I mean miners might be lazy about updating there blocks to include new transactions as they come out since they get the 50 coin reward anyway
 498 2010-12-26 13:03:20 <sipa> miners ask the client (which may be a pool) for work every few seconds
 499 2010-12-26 13:03:43 <lfm> sipa this would be about custom miners. the standard client is quite fair about it
 500 2010-12-26 13:03:56 <sipa> i'm talking about custom miners
 501 2010-12-26 13:04:08 <sipa> at least, the ones by momchil and diabolo
 502 2010-12-26 13:04:14 <lfm> sipa ya, it would be at the poll server that it would be lazy
 503 2010-12-26 13:04:28 <sipa> yes
 504 2010-12-26 13:04:48 <lfm> sipa, like I say, I dont really know if it is happening at all, just a wild suspicion
 505 2010-12-26 13:04:57 <sipa> you'd have to ask slush
 506 2010-12-26 13:06:00 <lfm> and so fees would be a way to motivate them to be more diligent about adding in new transactions
 507 2010-12-26 13:07:02 <sipa> let's see
 508 2010-12-26 13:07:54 <lfm> sipa you gonna offer a fee to see if it gets thru faster than TD's 2 btc?
 509 2010-12-26 13:08:23 <devon_hillard> What is better currently for bitcoin: CUDA or OpenCL?
 510 2010-12-26 13:09:10 <lfm> opencl because cuda is only good for nvidia and ati is much better for bitcoin mining
 511 2010-12-26 13:10:17 <devon_hillard> Is it due to the better openCL API or the more powerful ATI cards?
 512 2010-12-26 13:10:37 <lfm> devon_hillard: if you're stuck with an nvidia card, well it probably doesnt reall matter much if you use cuda or opencl, it might be a little better with cuda, im not sure
 513 2010-12-26 13:11:12 <devon_hillard> lfm, I have an ATI card, but apparently there is a large community of researchers working with CUDA
 514 2010-12-26 13:11:25 <devon_hillard> so I was wondering if it's an API thing
 515 2010-12-26 13:11:29 <lfm> devon_hillard: ATI works better for bitcoin cuz bitcoin mining is purely integer operations, nvidia is maybe better for floating point
 516 2010-12-26 13:11:31 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 517 2010-12-26 13:11:33 <TD> it missed another two blocks
 518 2010-12-26 13:11:36 <TD> hrmmm
 519 2010-12-26 13:11:39 RichardG has joined
 520 2010-12-26 13:12:08 <lfm> devon_hillard: well you can't use cuda at all on your ATI card
 521 2010-12-26 13:12:34 <devon_hillard> lfm: yes, I was wondering if the NVidia hardware was more powerful, though
 522 2010-12-26 13:12:46 <devon_hillard> since they have been working on CUDA for longer
 523 2010-12-26 13:12:59 <lfm> devon_hillard: I think ATI is currently higher power in general
 524 2010-12-26 13:13:02 <devon_hillard> and GPU-computing clusters coming out now are CUDA exclusive
 525 2010-12-26 13:13:11 <sipa> lfm: no i am going to check how long it takes before the work i get from the pool includes the recently found block
 526 2010-12-26 13:13:17 <wumpus> ati is much faster for integer arithmetic
 527 2010-12-26 13:13:24 <wumpus> which is what is used for cracking / bitcoin
 528 2010-12-26 13:13:24 <sipa> and i believe currently there are no clients which bother about transaction fees at all
 529 2010-12-26 13:13:32 <lfm> devon_hillard: I suspect more opencl work will be comming aalong soon
 530 2010-12-26 13:13:45 <wumpus> much faster as in can be like four times faster for the same price of hw
 531 2010-12-26 13:14:42 <lfm> devon_hillard: remember for the super-computer systems, they may takes years to plan and organize
 532 2010-12-26 13:15:57 <lfm> TD if the net somehow lost your txn, it will be re-transmitted every half hour or so till it gets thru
 533 2010-12-26 13:17:38 <lfm> sipa ya, I spoze if fees helped there would be a lot more of them showing up
 534 2010-12-26 13:18:21 <devon_hillard> Can you exploit FPUs for hash breaking in any way?
 535 2010-12-26 13:18:27 <devon_hillard> perhaps probabilistic algorithms
 536 2010-12-26 13:18:41 <sipa> not efficiently, i think
 537 2010-12-26 13:19:14 <lfm> devon_hillard: well thats sort like the way bitcoin works normally. doing millions of hashes looking for special ones with lots of zeros at one end
 538 2010-12-26 13:20:12 <TD> lfm: every half hour?
 539 2010-12-26 13:20:13 <TD> hmm
 540 2010-12-26 13:20:15 <TD> that kind of sucks
 541 2010-12-26 13:20:25 <TD> it'd be good if it was lower
 542 2010-12-26 13:20:34 <wumpus> fp hardware is much more complex than integer hardware, it will not be efficient to wrap another integer layer above fp
 543 2010-12-26 13:20:35 <TD> i guess that is what happened
 544 2010-12-26 13:20:47 <lfm> td something like that ya, btw what block number are you on? I have 99506 here
 545 2010-12-26 13:21:14 <TD> 99506. i am keeping up just fine
 546 2010-12-26 13:21:20 <lfm> ok
 547 2010-12-26 13:21:52 <TD> i'll have to wait for a retransmit
 548 2010-12-26 13:22:08 <TD> i'd assumed that the client would resend transactions when restarted, but it seems not
 549 2010-12-26 13:22:29 <BoBeR> its probolly out there
 550 2010-12-26 13:22:45 <ArtForz> for FP GPGPU work ATI 5xxx/6xxx also wipes the floor with fermi
 551 2010-12-26 13:23:24 <ArtForz> only area where nvidia performs decently is if you have significant noncoherent branching
 552 2010-12-26 13:23:56 <lfm> ArtForz: ya probably just beurocratic lag time that they are still building cuda big systems
 553 2010-12-26 13:24:18 <ArtForz> ATI arch is essentially 20-30 very wide SIMD processors
 554 2010-12-26 13:25:13 <lfm> td in my debig.log it says it has txn dfcb936ac2fe910015bf you think thats yours?
 555 2010-12-26 13:25:15 <ArtForz> while NVIDIA has 400-512 single-ALU cores
 556 2010-12-26 13:25:37 <TD> i don't know how to see tx hashes of unconfirmed transactions
 557 2010-12-26 13:25:43 <TD> i guess i could dump my wallet
 558 2010-12-26 13:25:47 <lfm> td it is showing some other txn numbers now too
 559 2010-12-26 13:25:59 <TD> my tx is 2 coins to 1LWgEH6SBFXUr1zYs7QSra9rpL8ktv9mP9
 560 2010-12-26 13:26:05 <ArtForz> run gui with -debug and double click the TX ?
 561 2010-12-26 13:26:34 <TD> ArtForz: thanks
 562 2010-12-26 13:26:37 <TD> ArtForz: that's useful to know
 563 2010-12-26 13:26:41 <lfm> my systems sez there are 7 txn in block now
 564 2010-12-26 13:26:55 <TD> 1LWgEH6SBFXUr1zYs7QSra9rpL8ktv9mP9
 565 2010-12-26 13:26:57 <TD> oops
 566 2010-12-26 13:27:01 <TD> hmm
 567 2010-12-26 13:27:08 <TD> nice. can select the text but not copy/paste it
 568 2010-12-26 13:27:16 <TD> my tx hash is 088804e127....
 569 2010-12-26 13:28:32 <ArtForz> I think that 1 doesnt belong there
 570 2010-12-26 13:28:45 <TD> oops
 571 2010-12-26 13:28:46 <TD> right
 572 2010-12-26 13:28:49 <TD> that's a typo
 573 2010-12-26 13:28:51 <ArtForz> AcceptToMemoryPool(): accepted 088804e279
 574 2010-12-26 13:28:55 <TD> it's 088804e279
 575 2010-12-26 13:28:57 <TD> ah, great
 576 2010-12-26 13:29:01 <TD> just have to wait then
 577 2010-12-26 13:29:15 <ArtForz> yeah, blocks have been kinda slow over the last hours
 578 2010-12-26 13:29:29 <BoBeR> seems like xmas ppl turn off there pcs
 579 2010-12-26 13:29:30 <lfm> TD yup, my system has it
 580 2010-12-26 13:29:51 <BoBeR> i has it too
 581 2010-12-26 13:29:53 <ArtForz> or it's just a run of slow blocks
 582 2010-12-26 13:30:06 <BoBeR> 40 mins for one
 583 2010-12-26 13:30:09 <BoBeR> unlikly
 584 2010-12-26 13:30:48 <ArtForz> we already had blocks > 2h while averaging 10+ blocks/h
 585 2010-12-26 13:31:47 <lfm> TD looks like I only received that txn after I received block 99505
 586 2010-12-26 13:32:00 <TD> guess it was indeed a retransmit. the wifi here sucks :)
 587 2010-12-26 13:32:00 <ArtForz> block finding = poisson distribution
 588 2010-12-26 13:32:24 <lfm> TD ah! ya wifi sucks in lots of places
 589 2010-12-26 13:32:26 <nathan7> I'm so a poisson distribution!
 590 2010-12-26 13:33:36 <BoBeR> go away xkcd
 591 2010-12-26 13:34:10 <nathan7> =p
 592 2010-12-26 13:35:50 <TD> there we go
 593 2010-12-26 13:35:53 <TD> now it shows 1/unconfirmed
 594 2010-12-26 13:36:17 <lfm> ya it musta just got into 99507
 595 2010-12-26 13:38:00 <ArtForz> yep
 596 2010-12-26 13:38:01 <BoBeR> WIN
 597 2010-12-26 13:38:05 <BoBeR> now we can all sleep
 598 2010-12-26 13:38:08 <ArtForz> 3rd tx in 99507
 599 2010-12-26 13:38:09 <BoBeR> its 8 35 am
 600 2010-12-26 13:38:12 <BoBeR> i need some nap time
 601 2010-12-26 13:38:25 <lfm> gnite BoBeR
 602 2010-12-26 13:40:04 <lfm> like a watched pot, when you're watching for a txn it takes 25 minutes for the next block!
 603 2010-12-26 13:40:40 Cusipzzz has joined
 604 2010-12-26 13:41:38 <TD> heh
 605 2010-12-26 13:41:57 <lfm> just a random reflection
 606 2010-12-26 13:44:07 <sipa> use a time-unit of one second, 110Ghash/s, and difficulty 14484; that means a poisson distribution with lambda=.00176823
 607 2010-12-26 13:45:02 <lfm> can you get a standard deviation?
 608 2010-12-26 13:45:20 <sipa> that means 1.4% chance for a block that lasts longer than 40 minutes
 609 2010-12-26 13:46:08 <lfm> so it should also be 1.4% chance of 2.5 minutes
 610 2010-12-26 13:46:20 <sipa> ?
 611 2010-12-26 13:46:31 <lfm> no?
 612 2010-12-26 13:46:58 <sipa> 23% chance for a block that lasts less than 2.5 minutes
 613 2010-12-26 13:47:03 <sipa> it's very assymetric
 614 2010-12-26 13:47:29 <lfm> oh ok, satistics are not a strength of mine
 615 2010-12-26 13:47:42 <sipa> standard deviation is 9.42 minutes
 616 2010-12-26 13:47:52 <sipa> exactly the same as the average :)
 617 2010-12-26 13:49:04 <lfm> spozed to be 10 mins but of course it wont be exact in reality
 618 2010-12-26 13:49:35 <sipa> the computation speed has increased since the last retarget
 619 2010-12-26 13:49:51 <ArtForz> yep
 620 2010-12-26 13:49:52 <lfm> and due to ithe total hashes growning not steady
 621 2010-12-26 13:50:27 <BoBeR> and now im going to add another 1200 to the world
 622 2010-12-26 13:50:35 <sipa> 1200 what?
 623 2010-12-26 13:50:41 <TD> nice
 624 2010-12-26 13:50:41 <BoBeR> Mhash
 625 2010-12-26 13:50:47 <sipa> wow
 626 2010-12-26 13:50:50 <BoBeR> K
 627 2010-12-26 13:50:53 <BoBeR> thats a typo
 628 2010-12-26 13:50:59 <sipa> oh, boo!
 629 2010-12-26 13:51:01 <sipa> ;)
 630 2010-12-26 13:51:09 <BoBeR> yes i have a personal 1.2Ghash at home
 631 2010-12-26 13:51:10 <sipa> it's k, not K, by the way :)
 632 2010-12-26 13:51:15 <BoBeR> i rival iwth ArtForz
 633 2010-12-26 13:51:20 <BoBeR> its FUCK YOU
 634 2010-12-26 13:51:22 <sipa> k!
 635 2010-12-26 13:51:23 <BoBeR> im tired
 636 2010-12-26 13:51:24 <BoBeR> no sleep
 637 2010-12-26 13:51:28 <BoBeR> goaway
 638 2010-12-26 13:51:29 <sipa> go to bed :)
 639 2010-12-26 13:51:31 <BoBeR> no
 640 2010-12-26 13:51:33 <lfm> oh 1200 khash not so impressive im afraid! grin
 641 2010-12-26 13:51:33 <BoBeR> its 9 am
 642 2010-12-26 13:51:34 <BoBeR> amost
 643 2010-12-26 13:51:53 <BoBeR> fine i wont generate
 644 2010-12-26 13:52:24 <ArtForz> wow, only about 16x that and you're getting close to my gpu cluster
 645 2010-12-26 13:53:02 <sipa> 19Mhash/s ?
 646 2010-12-26 13:53:24 <ArtForz> ~20Ghash
 647 2010-12-26 13:55:03 <sipa> that's not too impressive either, compared to the speeds of recent gpu's :)
 648 2010-12-26 13:55:24 <ArtForz> well, it is kinda impressive for only 24 5970s
 649 2010-12-26 13:55:48 <sipa> oh
 650 2010-12-26 13:56:00 <sipa> it's *16000 then, not *16 :D
 651 2010-12-26 13:56:06 <ArtForz> yep
 652 2010-12-26 13:56:24 <sipa> that is impressive :D
 653 2010-12-26 13:56:39 <ArtForz> and about as far as I can push it
 654 2010-12-26 13:56:46 <sipa> you're able to sell those?
 655 2010-12-26 13:57:02 <ArtForz> yup
 656 2010-12-26 13:57:17 <sipa> nice
 657 2010-12-26 13:57:53 <ArtForz> normally I'm running ~18Gh/s, as I have to push core voltage and power up quite a bit to get those last 10%
 658 2010-12-26 13:57:54 <lfm> another hour and the boxing day sale opens, im gonna go get another gpu
 659 2010-12-26 13:58:33 <sipa> you expect mining to remain profitable in the foreseeable future?
 660 2010-12-26 13:58:38 <ArtForz> yep
 661 2010-12-26 13:58:51 <lfm> well depends what you mean by foreseeable
 662 2010-12-26 13:59:27 <sipa> total computation speed could be *10 in a few months
 663 2010-12-26 13:59:37 <ArtForz> yep
 664 2010-12-26 13:59:51 <lfm> a couple months should be fine, a year might be kinda sketchy
 665 2010-12-26 14:00:22 <ArtForz> should be fine as long as we dont get a few 100k+ node botnets
 666 2010-12-26 14:01:12 <lfm> sipa remember the exchange rate of BTC to whatever factors into profitabiltiy too. the price just went up another notch that last couple days
 667 2010-12-26 14:01:39 <sipa> i should reimplement my network speed estimator in C... the perl implementation takes 10 minutes to process the whole block chain :(
 668 2010-12-26 14:02:01 <ArtForz> sipa: why are you reprocessing the whole block chain over and over?
 669 2010-12-26 14:02:20 <sipa> ArtForz: no, i just have a list of (time,difficulty) pairs, and process those
 670 2010-12-26 14:02:58 <sipa> but i restart everytime yes, i could make it incremental as well
 671 2010-12-26 14:03:17 <TD> the botnet factor still worries me
 672 2010-12-26 14:03:20 <TD> i know the game theory aspect of it
 673 2010-12-26 14:03:27 <TD> they should find it more beneficial to mine than defraud
 674 2010-12-26 14:03:29 <TD> but .....
 675 2010-12-26 14:03:34 <lfm> sipa ya even in C it takes a while to rescan the whole block list
 676 2010-12-26 14:03:44 <sipa> it's just 90000 numbers
 677 2010-12-26 14:04:23 <ArtForz> yeah, in python I save the important stuff and continue where I left off
 678 2010-12-26 14:04:52 <ArtForz> as a full rescan in python takes ~10 sec
 679 2010-12-26 14:16:51 <zygf_> TD: there's no shortage of people that like to break things for fun or just to spite people, on the internet in particular
 680 2010-12-26 14:16:59 zygf_ is now known as zygf
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 683 2010-12-26 14:21:01 <sipa> botnet operators are typically strongly influenced by profit :)
 684 2010-12-26 14:22:43 <zygf> and botnets are used for DDoS attacks, doesn't matter whether it's the botnet operator or client that orders them
 685 2010-12-26 14:24:22 <sipa> true
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 690 2010-12-26 14:33:31 <ThomasV> my bitcoin client seems to be generating a new address everytime I receive coins ; why ?
 691 2010-12-26 14:35:02 <TD> it generates new addresses every so often anyway
 692 2010-12-26 14:35:09 <TD> the idea is to enhance your privacy
 693 2010-12-26 14:35:18 <TD> you don't have to use the new addresses if you don't want to
 694 2010-12-26 14:35:32 <ThomasV> yes but I can't delete it
 695 2010-12-26 14:35:47 <ThomasV> will the list keep growing indefinitely ?
 696 2010-12-26 14:36:21 <TD> i think so. i wouldn't worry about it too much. your specific address doesn't matter that much in bitcoin
 697 2010-12-26 14:37:09 <ThomasV> how many addresses do you have in your wallet ?
 698 2010-12-26 14:37:59 <TD> me personally? not that many. i haven't been using bitcoin for very long
 699 2010-12-26 14:38:38 <ThomasV> are you saying that it removes some of them if you don't use it ?
 700 2010-12-26 14:39:08 <TD> i don't think it removes addresses from your address book currently. i guess it could remove ones that were never used to receive coins
 701 2010-12-26 14:39:14 <TD> does it bother you?
 702 2010-12-26 14:39:22 <ThomasV> yes it does
 703 2010-12-26 14:39:56 <TD> the reason it generates new addresses is that all transactions in bitcoin are public
 704 2010-12-26 14:40:08 <TD> however addresses are just big effectively random numbers
 705 2010-12-26 14:40:27 <TD> so ensuring addresses churn regularly is one way to make it harder to trace peoples economic activity
 706 2010-12-26 14:40:51 <TD> you could write a patch and send it to satoshi to improve address book management i guess
 707 2010-12-26 14:40:57 <ThomasV> I thought that was the reason why it generates new keys ; but here these are adresses that are visible in the client
 708 2010-12-26 14:41:19 <TD> addresses are tied to your keys
 709 2010-12-26 14:41:24 <ThomasV> well I am already trying to patch it so that it stops generating keys
 710 2010-12-26 14:41:26 <TD> addresses are hashes of public keys
 711 2010-12-26 14:42:02 <ThomasV> yes, but you have less adresses than keys afaict
 712 2010-12-26 14:42:13 <ThomasV> I already knew about keys generation
 713 2010-12-26 14:42:20 <TD> there is a pool of keys that have been generated but are not yet visible in the ui
 714 2010-12-26 14:42:21 <sipa> some keys are marked unused but pre-generated
 715 2010-12-26 14:43:03 <TD> this is to make backups useful
 716 2010-12-26 14:43:43 <ThomasV> hmm, you men backups of wallet.dat ?
 717 2010-12-26 14:43:48 <TD> yeah
 718 2010-12-26 14:43:50 <ThomasV> *mean*
 719 2010-12-26 14:44:05 sec^nd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 720 2010-12-26 14:44:27 <ThomasV> you need to backup after each transcaction anyway, since it keeps generating keys
 721 2010-12-26 14:44:51 <sipa> no
 722 2010-12-26 14:44:58 <ThomasV> no ?
 723 2010-12-26 14:44:59 <sipa> no need a backup every 100 transactions
 724 2010-12-26 14:45:02 <TD> the keys that appear in the ui are taken from this pool
 725 2010-12-26 14:45:05 <TD> that's why it exists
 726 2010-12-26 14:45:10 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 727 2010-12-26 14:45:11 <sipa> since the wallet already contains keys that will be used in the future
 728 2010-12-26 14:45:27 <ThomasV> hmm I was told the opposite
 729 2010-12-26 14:45:27 <sipa> s/no/you/
 730 2010-12-26 14:45:27 RichardG has joined
 731 2010-12-26 14:45:40 <ThomasV> oh ok
 732 2010-12-26 14:45:43 <ThomasV> :-)
 733 2010-12-26 14:46:19 <ThomasV> does it warn you when you need to refresh your backup ?
 734 2010-12-26 14:46:28 <wumpus> it cannot automatically remove addresses, because the client doesn't know whether someone will send coins to them in the future
 735 2010-12-26 14:46:47 <wumpus> and if you delete an address the coins going to it will disappear forever
 736 2010-12-26 14:47:26 <TD> i think he meant delete from the UI
 737 2010-12-26 14:47:32 <TD> not actually from the wallet itself
 738 2010-12-26 14:47:34 <wumpus> that's be possible, delete as in 'hide'
 739 2010-12-26 14:47:46 <TD> this seems like wanting to keep the address book "clean" :-)
 740 2010-12-26 14:47:49 <ThomasV> well, I meant both
 741 2010-12-26 14:48:28 <wumpus> hiding them is a pretty good idea
 742 2010-12-26 14:48:45 <wumpus> the user interface could be much more friendly
 743 2010-12-26 14:49:03 <ThomasV> above all, I would like to be able to make a permanent backup of my wallet, by using a limited number of keys ; that would be at the expenses of privacy
 744 2010-12-26 14:49:14 <wumpus> then again, as there are hardly any 'users' developer friendly is that's aimed at right now
 745 2010-12-26 14:49:40 <TD> yes, well that makes more sense ..... not having to back up all the time.
 746 2010-12-26 14:49:47 <wumpus> yes, splitting the wallet functionality
 747 2010-12-26 14:50:03 <TD> you can just pick one of the addresses and say, that's my permanent address now
 748 2010-12-26 14:50:17 <TD> though i suspect the client doesn't handle old wallet backups well
 749 2010-12-26 14:50:21 <wumpus> theoretically you could move addresses (with the coins associated with them) to a backup and remove them
 750 2010-12-26 14:50:34 <TD> as the wallet stores more than just your keys .... also transactions. it'd have to regenerate them from the block chain, not sure if it does that today
 751 2010-12-26 14:51:31 <ThomasV> what do you mean, it stores transaction ?
 752 2010-12-26 14:51:33 sec^nd has joined
 753 2010-12-26 14:51:58 <wumpus> but with bitcoin it's probably better to get used to now having a 'permanent address', it's different than normal banking in many ways
 754 2010-12-26 14:52:07 <wumpus> now=not
 755 2010-12-26 14:52:27 <TD> ThomasV: so it knows what coins you own. that data can be rebuilt from the block chain but for efficiency i think it's cached in your wallet
 756 2010-12-26 14:52:57 <ThomasV> wumpus : I do have a ssh private key that is permanent ; and that is safe
 757 2010-12-26 14:52:59 <wumpus> yep, the autorative source is always the block chain, but things are cached for performance
 758 2010-12-26 14:53:25 <wumpus> ThomasV: ssh is different, it is encrypted and only two parties have to communicate
 759 2010-12-26 14:53:51 <wumpus> ThomasV: with bitcoin everything is public as everyone needs to be able to verify your transactions, so the keys are 'in the open'
 760 2010-12-26 14:54:52 larsig has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
 761 2010-12-26 14:54:55 <wumpus> ThomasV: then again, you can always use the same address... no one will stop you
 762 2010-12-26 14:56:18 <ThomasV> if I could use a limited set of keys, then it would be possible to print them out, and to put them in a safe. right now I cannot do that because the list will eventually be deprecated
 763 2010-12-26 14:56:49 <ThomasV> and I do not feel comfortable with all my money relying on computer backups
 764 2010-12-26 14:56:53 <TD> you can use a limited set of keys
 765 2010-12-26 14:57:03 <TD> just pick an address and make it your own. you don't have to use the address book then
 766 2010-12-26 14:57:05 <wumpus> yes, sites do that already, they keep one address per 'client' where they can send coins, to distinguish them
 767 2010-12-26 14:57:22 <sipa> you could print a base64 version of wallet.dat
 768 2010-12-26 14:57:29 <sipa> but i understand your concern
 769 2010-12-26 14:57:54 <wumpus> yeah I think satoshi is working on recycling old keys for that purpose
 770 2010-12-26 14:57:54 <sipa> it would be nice to be able to see and manager the keys themselves in human-readable form
 771 2010-12-26 14:58:13 <ThomasV> sipa, yes that too
 772 2010-12-26 14:58:15 <wumpus> just generate a huge number of keys and re-use those for ever
 773 2010-12-26 14:58:58 <ThomasV> is satoshi still active on the project ?
 774 2010-12-26 14:59:09 <wumpus> yes
 775 2010-12-26 15:00:51 <ThomasV> does he use this channel ?
 776 2010-12-26 15:01:01 <wumpus> afaik he doesn't use irc
 777 2010-12-26 15:01:10 <wumpus> he does post on the forums sometimes
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 783 2010-12-26 15:22:14 <nanotube> nathan7: gribble will autoop you when you join, if you are logged in and have your usual hostmask.
 784 2010-12-26 15:27:17 <BoBeR> "rm -f /" is the best script
 785 2010-12-26 15:30:54 <nathan7> nanotube: mhm
 786 2010-12-26 15:31:01 nathan7 has left ()
 787 2010-12-26 15:31:01 nathan7 has joined
 788 2010-12-26 15:31:05 <nathan7> whoo, awesome
 789 2010-12-26 15:31:11 DjeZAeL has joined
 790 2010-12-26 15:32:03 <nathan7> BoBeR: rm: cannot remove `/': Is a directory
 791 2010-12-26 15:32:12 <DjeZAeL> hi
 792 2010-12-26 15:32:49 <DjeZAeL> i found an important error in the readme.txt file enclosed in the tar.gz archive
 793 2010-12-26 15:33:00 syl_ has joined
 794 2010-12-26 15:33:26 <DjeZAeL> it says to "run bitcoin.exe"
 795 2010-12-26 15:33:41 <nathan7> ..but?
 796 2010-12-26 15:33:50 <DjeZAeL> but there is no file bitcoin.exe because it's an archive designed for linux
 797 2010-12-26 15:34:11 <nathan7> Yes, but it seems a tad obvious to me that you should just run that in that case
 798 2010-12-26 15:34:38 <nathan7> But then again, the stupidity of the average linux user is rising thanks to Ubuntu and all
 799 2010-12-26 15:34:45 <DjeZAeL> but that sentence should be remplaced by another one, for linux
 800 2010-12-26 15:35:00 <DjeZAeL> nathan7: thanks for the stupid linux user that i am u_u"
 801 2010-12-26 15:35:12 <DjeZAeL> very pleasant to read this shit !
 802 2010-12-26 15:35:16 <nathan7> ...
 803 2010-12-26 15:35:31 <nathan7> I'm using Ubuntu.
 804 2010-12-26 15:35:56 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 805 2010-12-26 15:36:03 <DjeZAeL> and ?
 806 2010-12-26 15:36:14 <DjeZAeL> the readme file is not ok
 807 2010-12-26 15:36:34 <DjeZAeL> i came here to help and i found no help...
 808 2010-12-26 15:36:55 <nathan7> I'm not a developer, and I keep forgetting who is..
 809 2010-12-26 15:37:17 <wumpus> make a patch to the readme file, submit it to the forums :)
 810 2010-12-26 15:37:39 darrob has joined
 811 2010-12-26 15:37:50 <DjeZAeL> wumpus: making a patch ? i'm not developper...
 812 2010-12-26 15:38:25 Prabas has joined
 813 2010-12-26 15:38:40 <wumpus> you don't need to be a developer to change documentation
 814 2010-12-26 15:38:49 Prabas has quit (Client Quit)
 815 2010-12-26 15:38:57 <DjeZAeL> to make a patch too ?
 816 2010-12-26 15:39:06 <DjeZAeL> i don't know how to make a patch
 817 2010-12-26 15:39:24 <DjeZAeL> and it seems useless to make a patch just for changing ONE sentence :/
 818 2010-12-26 15:39:35 <wumpus> it's a good thing to learn though
 819 2010-12-26 15:40:06 <DjeZAeL> so now you're aware of the problem, maybe you could make the patch wumpus ?
 820 2010-12-26 15:42:56 mx_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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 823 2010-12-26 15:59:47 <wumpus> DjeZAeL: mm for 10 bitcoins?
 824 2010-12-26 16:19:19 <DjeZAeL> i have no bitcoin for the moment
 825 2010-12-26 16:19:28 <DjeZAeL> i started to generate today !
 826 2010-12-26 16:19:50 <Kiba> DjeZAeL: pool mining?
 827 2010-12-26 16:20:13 <DjeZAeL> pool mining ?
 828 2010-12-26 16:20:25 <DjeZAeL> sorry but i'm french and new to bitcoin
 829 2010-12-26 16:20:39 <DjeZAeL> so i unederstand only few things :/
 830 2010-12-26 16:20:52 <Kiba> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
 831 2010-12-26 16:21:25 <sipa> i've already made 16 bitcoin through that pool
 832 2010-12-26 16:21:31 <sipa> i wouldn't have anything without :)
 833 2010-12-26 16:30:27 <DjeZAeL> how can we know when our computer have generated bitcoins ?
 834 2010-12-26 16:30:50 <sipa> i modified m0mchil's client to dump found solutions and their quality
 835 2010-12-26 16:30:57 <sipa> s/client/miner/
 836 2010-12-26 16:31:30 <sipa> if you're not using a pool, you will know by seeing the balance increase +50 :)
 837 2010-12-26 16:31:36 <DjeZAeL> ok
 838 2010-12-26 16:31:56 <DjeZAeL> and the number of blocks is the work already done ?
 839 2010-12-26 16:32:39 <sipa> hmm?
 840 2010-12-26 16:32:57 <sipa> DjeZAeL: i suggest you read a bit first
 841 2010-12-26 16:33:04 <DjeZAeL> the block number, displayed at the top of bitvoin vlient
 842 2010-12-26 16:33:11 <DjeZAeL> bitcoin* cliet*
 843 2010-12-26 16:33:22 <DjeZAeL> client*
 844 2010-12-26 16:33:36 <sipa> that's the total number of blocks in the block chain
 845 2010-12-26 16:33:55 <sipa> a block is generated approximate every 10 minute
 846 2010-12-26 16:34:04 <sipa> so it's very hard to find one
 847 2010-12-26 16:34:13 <DjeZAeL> ok
 848 2010-12-26 16:34:20 <sipa> you can try to join in the effort of finding the next one
 849 2010-12-26 16:34:35 <sipa> either on yourself, in which case you gain the full 50BTC yourself
 850 2010-12-26 16:34:52 <sipa> or by joining a pool, which distributes the gains over all who contributed
 851 2010-12-26 16:37:52 <DjeZAeL> do several pool mining exist ?
 852 2010-12-26 16:38:12 <sipa> i've heard about two
 853 2010-12-26 16:38:32 <DjeZAeL> is there a list somewhere ?
 854 2010-12-26 16:42:51 <DjeZAeL> seems not
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 858 2010-12-26 16:48:07 <devon_hillard> how do bitcoin miners know not to pick already searched block sections?
 859 2010-12-26 16:48:45 <devon_hillard> and how do you verify that a certain section has beed determined not to contain a valid hash?
 860 2010-12-26 16:49:03 <sipa> are you talking about the client itself, or pools?
 861 2010-12-26 16:49:18 <devon_hillard> sipa: both, actually
 862 2010-12-26 16:49:53 <devon_hillard> say, miners may not report valid hashes
 863 2010-12-26 16:50:28 <sipa> well, the data that is hashed contains 1) a timestamp 2) and 3) a hash of transactions; included in that list of transactions is (amongst others) a) the address the generated coins go to, and b) another nonce
 864 2010-12-26 16:50:31 <devon_hillard> or is there a system where the "pool" is allocated to everyone at once, then a new pool comes active?
 865 2010-12-26 16:51:41 <devon_hillard> so if you have several miner clients active, you could split up the search pool to search it more effectively
 866 2010-12-26 16:51:44 <sipa> oh, 2) should be 2) a nonce
 867 2010-12-26 16:51:57 <sipa> devon_hillard: that's exactly what pools do
 868 2010-12-26 16:52:20 <sipa> but there is no need to search sections exhaustively
 869 2010-12-26 16:52:34 <sipa> they expire as soon as the timestamp is updated or new transactions are added anyway
 870 2010-12-26 16:52:49 <devon_hillard> not exhaustively, but to prevent search duplication by clients running in parallel
 871 2010-12-26 16:53:05 <sipa> giving them work based on a different nonce
 872 2010-12-26 17:08:50 <cosurgi> ;;bc,target
 873 2010-12-26 17:08:51 <gribble> Error: "bc,target" is not a valid command.
 874 2010-12-26 17:08:57 <cosurgi> ;;bc,status
 875 2010-12-26 17:08:57 <gribble> Error: "bc,status" is not a valid command.
 876 2010-12-26 17:09:03 <cosurgi> ;;bc,help
 877 2010-12-26 17:09:04 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
 878 2010-12-26 17:09:34 <cosurgi> ;;bc,hextarget
 879 2010-12-26 17:09:35 <gribble> 000000000004864C000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 880 2010-12-26 17:10:21 <cosurgi> 11 zeros, that would be 44 bits, right?
 881 2010-12-26 17:11:20 <sipa> yes, and followed by a 4, that means 46 zero bits
 882 2010-12-26 17:11:36 <cosurgi> umm... and hexadecimal '4', which is.... one more zero bit.
 883 2010-12-26 17:11:43 <sipa> two
 884 2010-12-26 17:12:23 <cosurgi> hmm. you are adding one 'safety' bit?
 885 2010-12-26 17:12:36 <sipa> no, i'm just wrong :)
 886 2010-12-26 17:12:40 <cosurgi> ok :)
 887 2010-12-26 17:12:46 <cosurgi> so the target is 45 bits, am I crrect?
 888 2010-12-26 17:12:51 <sipa> or, you could look at the difficulty, 14484.16236123, which is over 2^13, and add 32
 889 2010-12-26 17:12:54 <sipa> indeed, 45
 890 2010-12-26 17:13:14 <cosurgi> thanks :)
 891 2010-12-26 17:15:17 <cosurgi> it's quite confusing that in getwork, the work.target is in little endian.
 892 2010-12-26 17:15:36 <cosurgi> I must convert that stuff, and I'm still not sure if it's correct.
 893 2010-12-26 17:15:50 <sipa> it's a mess
 894 2010-12-26 17:16:14 <sipa> i found out through trial-and-error
 895 2010-12-26 17:20:59 StrangeCharm has joined
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 897 2010-12-26 17:30:27 <DjeZAeL> uh
 898 2010-12-26 17:37:52 <sec^nd> what happens if I send bitcoins to an address that does not exists ?
 899 2010-12-26 17:38:10 <sipa> they're lost
 900 2010-12-26 17:38:27 <sec^nd> -.-
 901 2010-12-26 17:38:29 <sipa> but addresses contain some error detection
 902 2010-12-26 17:38:43 <sec^nd> sipa: so there isn't a way to recover bitcoins ?
 903 2010-12-26 17:38:48 <sipa> no
 904 2010-12-26 17:38:55 <sipa> transactions are irreversible
 905 2010-12-26 17:39:07 <sec^nd> well I sent them to an old address to which I dont use anymore / lost  / deleted the empty wallet etc (formated system)
 906 2010-12-26 17:39:20 <sec^nd> well thats not reliable
 907 2010-12-26 17:39:28 * sec^nd found a bug in bitcoin
 908 2010-12-26 17:39:35 <sipa> no, it is a design decision
 909 2010-12-26 17:39:36 <sec^nd> no error correction
 910 2010-12-26 17:39:42 <sec^nd> where are the devs to point this out to ?
 911 2010-12-26 17:39:48 <sec^nd> bad decision imo
 912 2010-12-26 17:40:00 <[Noodles]> not a bug, a feature
 913 2010-12-26 17:40:04 <sipa> the alternative is that there be a way to verify if an address exists
 914 2010-12-26 17:40:18 <sipa> that would require a significant loss in privacy or performance
 915 2010-12-26 17:40:51 <sec^nd> so if that happens to often then alot of bitcoins can end up in the black hole
 916 2010-12-26 17:41:04 <sipa> yes
 917 2010-12-26 17:41:25 <sipa> that probably already happened
 918 2010-12-26 17:41:35 <sipa> but it's not really a problem
 919 2010-12-26 17:42:23 <sec^nd> well if bitcoin has a set number of bitcoins eventually the black hole will consume them all
 920 2010-12-26 17:42:37 <sipa> no
 921 2010-12-26 17:42:42 <[Noodles]> if people don't care about their coins
 922 2010-12-26 17:42:53 <sipa> if the set of available coins shrink
 923 2010-12-26 17:42:57 <sipa> their values goes up
 924 2010-12-26 17:43:05 <sec^nd> accidents happen
 925 2010-12-26 17:43:13 <sipa> and people will start (slowly) dealing with smaller and smaller fractions of bitcoins
 926 2010-12-26 17:43:18 <sec^nd> well how do you know how many are availble ?
 927 2010-12-26 17:43:24 <sipa> not
 928 2010-12-26 17:43:37 <sipa> it's just the economy that will cause this
 929 2010-12-26 17:43:46 <sipa> indirectly, and slowly
 930 2010-12-26 17:44:08 <sipa> but thus also the amounts which will be losts through (inevitable) accidents, will decrease
 931 2010-12-26 17:44:20 <sipa> you can burn dollars too :)
 932 2010-12-26 17:44:58 <[Noodles]> or send them to my address, i'll burn them for you
 933 2010-12-26 17:44:59 <sec^nd> but they make dollars really fast
 934 2010-12-26 17:45:07 <sec^nd> bitcoins take time to generate
 935 2010-12-26 17:45:11 <sipa> yes
 936 2010-12-26 17:45:21 <sipa> that's their strength
 937 2010-12-26 17:45:28 <sipa> they have a very well defined scarceness
 938 2010-12-26 17:46:52 <sec^nd> if its scarce then there aren't that many
 939 2010-12-26 17:46:52 <sec^nd> ...
 940 2010-12-26 17:47:02 <sec^nd> so what happens when there aren't enough to go around ?
 941 2010-12-26 17:47:20 <[Noodles]> the the price will be incredible high and we're all rich
 942 2010-12-26 17:47:26 <[Noodles]> *then
 943 2010-12-26 17:47:28 <sipa> why do you assume a particular amount is necessary?
 944 2010-12-26 17:47:42 <sipa> there could be as well be just 1 BTC in total
 945 2010-12-26 17:47:50 <sipa> but its value would be a lot higher
 946 2010-12-26 17:49:56 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 948 2010-12-26 17:58:14 <lfm> you're also missing the concept of circulation. if 1 btc circulates fast enuf thats all you need. you could still have a lot of value moving around
 949 2010-12-26 18:03:22 <INEEDMONEY> I need java developers :]
 950 2010-12-26 18:04:02 <lfm> java is simple, learn it yourself
 951 2010-12-26 18:04:10 <INEEDMONEY> I know it inside and out
 952 2010-12-26 18:04:15 <INEEDMONEY> I need people for larger projects
 953 2010-12-26 18:04:20 <INEEDMONEY> like your mother
 954 2010-12-26 18:04:26 <AAA_awright> Java is dead, long live Javascript
 955 2010-12-26 18:04:36 <INEEDMONEY> ANDROID APPS
 956 2010-12-26 18:04:40 <INEEDMONEY> very specific market
 957 2010-12-26 18:04:44 <AAA_awright> python you're next
 958 2010-12-26 18:04:49 <AAA_awright> >:(
 959 2010-12-26 18:04:51 <lfm>  /ignore ineedmoney
 960 2010-12-26 18:05:14 <AAA_awright> Yeah what does this have to do with Bitcoin anyways?
 961 2010-12-26 18:05:35 <INEEDMONEY> I am going to invest the money I make on the android market in bitcoin
 962 2010-12-26 18:05:37 <lfm> hes a troll ignore him
 963 2010-12-26 18:05:40 <INEEDMONEY> because I pay my employees in bitcoin
 964 2010-12-26 18:05:53 <INEEDMONEY> lfm: you are an idiot, ignore yourself
 965 2010-12-26 18:11:10 <sec^nd> <_<
 966 2010-12-26 18:11:31 <sec^nd> >_>
 967 2010-12-26 18:11:50 <sec^nd> all caps nicks... sign of the troll
 968 2010-12-26 18:12:30 <AAA_awright> INEEDMONEY: Yeah drop the caps
 969 2010-12-26 18:12:32 INEEDMONEY is now known as NOTTROLLING
 970 2010-12-26 18:12:38 NOTTROLLING is now known as justkidding
 971 2010-12-26 18:12:44 justkidding is now known as INEEDMONEY
 972 2010-12-26 18:12:48 <AAA_awright> ...
 973 2010-12-26 18:12:55 <INEEDMONEY> I need money, and so do you
 974 2010-12-26 18:13:00 <INEEDMONEY> I don't even want to take your money
 975 2010-12-26 18:13:01 <AAA_awright> You don't "need" anything
 976 2010-12-26 18:13:12 <INEEDMONEY> fine bro
 977 2010-12-26 18:13:17 <AAA_awright> Not in the short term at least
 978 2010-12-26 18:13:29 <AAA_awright> Welcome to econ 101
 979 2010-12-26 18:16:19 <bonsaikitten> money is just condensed power
 980 2010-12-26 18:16:32 <bonsaikitten> more convenient than clubbing people on the head and stealing their stuff
 981 2010-12-26 18:17:09 <lfm> bonsaikitten: only reason people get mugged is for money it seems
 982 2010-12-26 18:17:53 <bonsaikitten> anything that can be converted to money
 983 2010-12-26 18:18:12 <lfm> and it can be pretty difuse if its in the form of copper
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 987 2010-12-26 18:19:03 <sec^nd> how do I repair my bitcoin wallet ?
 988 2010-12-26 18:19:22 <Kiba> sec^nd: did ya back i up?
 989 2010-12-26 18:19:30 <lfm> sec^nd: depends what you did to it, you may be screwed
 990 2010-12-26 18:22:08 <sec^nd> I didn't do anything to it
 991 2010-12-26 18:22:15 <sec^nd> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
 992 2010-12-26 18:22:17 <sec^nd> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
 993 2010-12-26 18:22:18 <sec^nd> bitcoin in AppInit()
 994 2010-12-26 18:22:22 <sec^nd> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
 995 2010-12-26 18:22:23 <sec^nd> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
 996 2010-12-26 18:22:25 <sec^nd> bitcoin in CMyApp::OnUnhandledException()
 997 2010-12-26 18:22:35 <lfm> well then there is nothing wronmg with it
 998 2010-12-26 18:23:18 <Kiba> you ARE DOOMED!
 999 2010-12-26 18:23:27 <lfm> I bet your turned of your machine while bitcoin was running or something
1000 2010-12-26 18:23:35 <sec^nd> mhm
1001 2010-12-26 18:23:41 <sec^nd> bitcoin has problems
1002 2010-12-26 18:23:55 <sipa> it should do that recovery automatically :)
1003 2010-12-26 18:24:14 <sec^nd> it didn't
1004 2010-12-26 18:24:17 <lfm> yup, it automaticly tells you to do it
1005 2010-12-26 18:25:21 <sec^nd> so how do I do it ?
1006 2010-12-26 18:25:26 <lfm> it maybe isnt an error in your wallet. it might be the block china files. just save the wallet.dat and delete the rest and bitcoin might reload it all
1007 2010-12-26 18:26:04 <sipa> i took me 3 reads wondering what china had to do with it :)
1008 2010-12-26 18:26:06 <lfm> china -> chain
1009 2010-12-26 18:26:55 lfm is now known as typoaddict
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1018 2010-12-26 18:53:41 <cosurgi> bitcoin is 'made in china!' bwahahahahaha
1019 2010-12-26 18:54:22 <cosurgi> (that's supposed to be a joke, re: "19:23 < sipa> i took me 3 reads wondering what china had to do with it :)")
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1024 2010-12-26 19:15:32 <cosurgi> ;;bc,hextarget
1025 2010-12-26 19:15:32 <gribble> 000000000004864C000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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1040 2010-12-26 21:28:06 slush has joined
1041 2010-12-26 21:29:00 <slush> ;;seen sipa
1042 2010-12-26 21:29:00 <gribble> sipa was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 hours, 2 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <sipa> i took me 3 reads wondering what china had to do with it :)
1043 2010-12-26 21:32:36 grondilu has joined
1044 2010-12-26 21:32:42 <grondilu> Hi, I have 4.75 CAD left on my VISA giftcard.  Anyone wants to buy them ?
1045 2010-12-26 21:33:03 <Kiba> no
1046 2010-12-26 21:33:08 <DjeZAeL> grondilu: hi !
1047 2010-12-26 21:33:20 <grondilu> DjeZAeL: salut
1048 2010-12-26 21:33:22 <sipa> slush: http://sipa.be/static/bpm-speed.pdf
1049 2010-12-26 21:34:05 <grondilu> that's the problem with those card, we can't transfer the rest of the money...
1050 2010-12-26 21:34:17 <DjeZAeL> grondilu: you have a notice :)
1051 2010-12-26 21:34:30 <DjeZAeL> sipa: are you from belgium ?
1052 2010-12-26 21:34:45 <sipa> yes
1053 2010-12-26 21:35:02 <grondilu> DjeZAeL: ?  what do you mean ?
1054 2010-12-26 21:35:59 <DjeZAeL> sipa: so french speaking ?
1055 2010-12-26 21:36:06 <DjeZAeL> grondilu: tu as une invitation en notice
1056 2010-12-26 21:36:06 <sipa> no, dutch
1057 2010-12-26 21:36:09 <DjeZAeL> sipa: ok
1058 2010-12-26 21:36:16 <sipa> but i do speak some french
1059 2010-12-26 21:36:19 <slush> sipa: thanks :)
1060 2010-12-26 21:36:33 <DjeZAeL> sipa: i don't speak dutch :/
1061 2010-12-26 21:36:55 <sipa> slush: it's not very accurate, but +- the best i can do i think
1062 2010-12-26 21:37:10 <grondilu> DjeZAeL: je vois tjrs pas de quoi tu parles.
1063 2010-12-26 21:37:19 <slush> sipa: looks good enough. and we are back above 4000 now :)
1064 2010-12-26 21:38:56 <slush> sipa: gnuplot?
1065 2010-12-26 21:38:59 <sipa> yes
1066 2010-12-26 21:43:56 <sipa> slush: it may take some more blocks before that speed increase is visible
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1070 2010-12-26 21:48:44 grondilu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1071 2010-12-26 21:53:21 <DjeZAeL> gribble: help
1072 2010-12-26 21:53:46 <DjeZAeL> nanotube: ping
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1078 2010-12-26 22:21:18 <nanotube> DjeZAeL: pong
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1080 2010-12-26 22:22:05 INEEDMONEY has joined
1081 2010-12-26 22:22:09 <DjeZAeL> nanotube: are you the owner of gribble ?
1082 2010-12-26 22:23:50 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1083 2010-12-26 22:26:38 <nanotube> DjeZAeL: yes :)
1084 2010-12-26 22:27:15 <DjeZAeL> can i think about having it on my french channel ?
1085 2010-12-26 22:28:57 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1086 2010-12-26 22:29:19 <nanotube> ;;join #bitcoin-fr
1087 2010-12-26 22:29:20 <DjeZAeL> nanotube: i've created #bitcoin-fr as you know, and grondilu said it would be great to have gribble on it :)
1088 2010-12-26 22:29:29 <DjeZAeL> nanotube: thaks !!
1089 2010-12-26 22:29:32 <DjeZAeL> thanks*
1090 2010-12-26 22:29:34 <nanotube> np DjeZAeL :)
1091 2010-12-26 22:32:19 Slix` has joined
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1093 2010-12-26 22:34:04 <newsham> why arent there any WoW/btc markets?
1094 2010-12-26 22:34:17 <newsham> come to thin kof it, a big game-to-btc forex would be neat
1095 2010-12-26 22:34:18 <DjeZAeL> lol
1096 2010-12-26 22:36:46 <INEEDMONEY> so what miner is everyone using now?
1097 2010-12-26 22:36:49 <INEEDMONEY> for GPU
1098 2010-12-26 22:36:51 <Cusipzzz> if i still played i'd do WoW/bt
1099 2010-12-26 22:36:52 <Cusipzzz> c
1100 2010-12-26 22:36:54 <nanotube> newsham: this is it... why not put in an order for the book? :)
1101 2010-12-26 22:37:05 * sipa uses m0mchil's with some own modifications
1102 2010-12-26 22:37:06 <INEEDMONEY> who needs compsci books?
1103 2010-12-26 22:37:16 <INEEDMONEY> sipa: wanna sell that to me?
1104 2010-12-26 22:37:23 <sipa> lol
1105 2010-12-26 22:37:29 <INEEDMONEY> I will pay you in bitcoin
1106 2010-12-26 22:37:34 <sipa> why, you can download it :)
1107 2010-12-26 22:37:35 <INEEDMONEY> make both our lives easier
1108 2010-12-26 22:37:52 <newsham> nano: this isnt -otc.
1109 2010-12-26 22:38:00 <INEEDMONEY> but it's software
1110 2010-12-26 22:38:01 <INEEDMONEY> sorry
1111 2010-12-26 22:38:04 <newsham> also i dont want to forex this stuff, i just want it to exist ;-)
1112 2010-12-26 22:38:13 <INEEDMONEY> hahaha
1113 2010-12-26 22:38:14 <INEEDMONEY> too bad
1114 2010-12-26 22:38:21 <nanotube> newsham: oh hehe sorry. too many tabs.
1115 2010-12-26 22:39:23 <INEEDMONEY> you took one too many tabs? or you want some?
1116 2010-12-26 22:41:08 <newsham> i didnt know they still sold tab..
1117 2010-12-26 22:41:09 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1118 2010-12-26 22:41:17 <newsham> bring back crystal pepsi!
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1127 2010-12-26 22:58:10 * EvanR returns
1128 2010-12-26 23:00:30 <EvanR> heh. the price went up over the weekend
1129 2010-12-26 23:05:03 <Cusipzzz> on tiny volume
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