1 2010-12-29 00:00:26 <slush1> davout: you mean mine 20BTC and 0.6LRUSD, right? ;)
   2 2010-12-29 00:00:37 <ThomasV> if you can't multiply my coins then I better have them back :-)
   3 2010-12-29 00:00:54 <Cusipzzz> confirmed scame...next up!
   4 2010-12-29 00:01:21 <slush1> davout: Don't worry with mine 10BTC
   5 2010-12-29 00:01:30 <appamatto> davout, what currencies do you support?
   6 2010-12-29 00:01:36 <davout> LRUSD, LREUR
   7 2010-12-29 00:01:51 <davout> kay site back up
   8 2010-12-29 00:02:01 <slush1> ^_^ > davout: i'm sending them to the faucet
   9 2010-12-29 00:02:09 <ThomasV> oh, it's back !
  10 2010-12-29 00:02:13 <davout> please get your coins back
  11 2010-12-29 00:02:27 <davout> i need to reset the wallet tomorrow
  12 2010-12-29 00:02:39 <davout> and i'll reset the DB
  13 2010-12-29 00:02:48 <ThomasV> does it mean we *must* take them back ?
  14 2010-12-29 00:03:03 <ThomasV> I guess it does, yes
  15 2010-12-29 00:03:38 <davout> well, if you don't i'll still send them back manually to you tomorrow, but like that you'll be able to test BTC withdrawal too :)
  16 2010-12-29 00:04:06 RichardG has joined
  17 2010-12-29 00:04:07 RichardG has quit (Changing host)
  18 2010-12-29 00:04:07 RichardG has joined
  19 2010-12-29 00:04:14 <davout> i'm really excited about that :)
  20 2010-12-29 00:04:28 <davout> but i have to code fucking jsp during the day
  21 2010-12-29 00:04:32 <davout> :(
  22 2010-12-29 00:04:58 devon_hillard has joined
  23 2010-12-29 00:05:10 <davout> it feels like i have to make love to an ugly old woman for a living when all i really want to do is to make love to my beautiful ruby on rails gf
  24 2010-12-29 00:05:31 <nanotube> haha
  25 2010-12-29 00:05:42 <devon_hillard> Has anyone done a bitcoin client for a PS3 (either unlocked or with old OtherOS firmware)?
  26 2010-12-29 00:05:55 <nanotube> not that i know of, devon_hillard
  27 2010-12-29 00:06:06 <ArtForz> also kinda pointless
  28 2010-12-29 00:06:19 <nanotube> well, no more pointless than any other cpu mining. :)
  29 2010-12-29 00:06:41 <ThomasV> slush1: did you withdraw your doubled coins ?
  30 2010-12-29 00:06:47 <davout> ArtForz: i would code a client for wii if i had an infinity of monkeys making a living for me
  31 2010-12-29 00:06:48 <nanotube> and who knows, some people with ps3s might have free electricity. :)
  32 2010-12-29 00:06:55 <ArtForz> yep, cell is overrated, about on par with Phenom II for Mh/W
  33 2010-12-29 00:06:59 <slush1> ThomasV: no, i sent back my 10BTC
  34 2010-12-29 00:07:16 slush1 is now known as slush
  35 2010-12-29 00:07:46 <ArtForz> and for most problems 6-core phenom blows a 3GHz cell out of the water
  36 2010-12-29 00:08:37 <davout> did you guys mind the i-have-to-type-password-and-captcha for each withdrawal thing ?
  37 2010-12-29 00:08:47 <EvanR> so the ps3 graphics hardware sucks for bitcoins?
  38 2010-12-29 00:08:51 <davout> did it feel bothersome? or reassurinlgy secure ?
  39 2010-12-29 00:09:04 <ArtForz> what graphics hadrware
  40 2010-12-29 00:09:08 <devon_hillard> or maybe a fpga implementation
  41 2010-12-29 00:09:14 <EvanR> ps3 doesnt have graphics?
  42 2010-12-29 00:09:23 <ArtForz> iirc theres still no accelerated driver for PS3 GPU
  43 2010-12-29 00:09:24 <davout> it has no games
  44 2010-12-29 00:09:36 <slush> davout: I have captchas :)
  45 2010-12-29 00:09:52 <EvanR> not even for proprietary projects?
  46 2010-12-29 00:10:08 <devon_hillard> the ps3's cell processors should be better at parallel work than regular PC CPUs and the graphics chip was certainly top notch 3 or so years ago
  47 2010-12-29 00:10:14 <ArtForz> oh, and with old otheros the GPU is completely inacessible except as simple framebuffer
  48 2010-12-29 00:10:15 <donpdonp> ps3 miner would be interesting because of the CELL processor
  49 2010-12-29 00:10:19 <davout> i kinda thought about some user account setting where the user gets to choose a security setting between low, normal, high, and military
  50 2010-12-29 00:10:28 <ArtForz> cell was decent about 3 years ago
  51 2010-12-29 00:10:31 <ThomasV> davout: it feeld like the website's owner is trying to keep us from withdrawing coins
  52 2010-12-29 00:10:39 <davout> like low is login with email+pass
  53 2010-12-29 00:10:48 <davout> ThomasV: really ?
  54 2010-12-29 00:10:50 <ThomasV> (I mean the captcha)
  55 2010-12-29 00:11:14 <ArtForz> a modern 6-core x86 is faster without the SPE crazyness
  56 2010-12-29 00:11:15 <davout> military would be signing everything with PGP and biometric shit
  57 2010-12-29 00:11:42 <slush> davout: But I understand and it does not choke off me
  58 2010-12-29 00:12:03 <davout> yea, guess i'll need to gather more feedback on those
  59 2010-12-29 00:12:18 <davout> ok, i'm off to bed, my gf won't just fuck herself
  60 2010-12-29 00:12:21 <ArtForz> each cell SPE is a single 128 bit SIMD engine, PS3 cell has 6 of em @ 3.2GHz accessible
  61 2010-12-29 00:12:33 <davout> thank you for your help :)
  62 2010-12-29 00:12:34 <slush> :-D
  63 2010-12-29 00:12:38 <ArtForz> Phenom II has 2 128 bit SIMD ALUs per core
  64 2010-12-29 00:12:44 <EvanR> 10BTC for you to turn on your webcam
  65 2010-12-29 00:12:57 <davout> i'll prob be around tom night for moar
  66 2010-12-29 00:13:07 <ArtForz> = 12 SIMD engines @ 3.2GHz in a X6 1090T
  67 2010-12-29 00:13:25 <davout> EvanR: it's stealth fucking, like in "do not wake the baby up", so it won't be very exciting to watch
  68 2010-12-29 00:13:35 <EvanR> oh
  69 2010-12-29 00:13:43 <davout> ArtForz: thanks for the overclocking tips!
  70 2010-12-29 00:13:45 <EvanR> you suck at porn
  71 2010-12-29 00:13:54 <davout> lol
  72 2010-12-29 00:14:04 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
  73 2010-12-29 00:14:39 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  74 2010-12-29 00:14:49 <ThomasV> ok, good night
  75 2010-12-29 00:15:13 slush has joined
  76 2010-12-29 00:15:24 marioxcc has joined
  77 2010-12-29 00:15:26 <marioxcc> hello
  78 2010-12-29 00:15:31 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
  79 2010-12-29 00:15:45 <nanotube> hi
  80 2010-12-29 00:16:25 <slush> I have very hungry pidgin.
  81 2010-12-29 00:16:28 <marioxcc> the wiki don't seems to give enough information about "midstate" field in getwork request
  82 2010-12-29 00:16:32 <slush> He ate 1.6GB RAM
  83 2010-12-29 00:16:38 <marioxcc> could someone please elaborate further?
  84 2010-12-29 00:16:43 <INEEDMONEY> what language was pidgin written in?
  85 2010-12-29 00:17:17 <slush> INEEDMONEY: I think python
  86 2010-12-29 00:17:54 <slush> INEEDMONEY: but i think there is some broken plugin inside because time to time it started with crunching and memory goes up
  87 2010-12-29 00:18:35 <slush> marioxcc: Firstly, I'm interested why do you need midstate :)
  88 2010-12-29 00:18:42 <INEEDMONEY> python is no fun, anyway
  89 2010-12-29 00:18:45 <INEEDMONEY> I'd rather push registers
  90 2010-12-29 00:21:21 theymos has joined
  91 2010-12-29 00:21:25 <marioxcc> sorry, i'm back
  92 2010-12-29 00:21:50 <marioxcc> slush: why do it matter?
  93 2010-12-29 00:22:12 <slush> It does not matter, I'm only interested
  94 2010-12-29 00:22:16 <marioxcc> ok, fine
  95 2010-12-29 00:22:29 <marioxcc> i want to hack cpuminer
  96 2010-12-29 00:22:37 <marioxcc> so it uses a pool of pending works
  97 2010-12-29 00:23:05 <marioxcc> pool/buffer
  98 2010-12-29 00:23:20 <nanotube> hey ArtForz ... any ideas about what exactly is in midstate?
  99 2010-12-29 00:23:39 <slush> Personally I don't know about midstate more than it is needed in first runhash() :)
 100 2010-12-29 00:23:49 <marioxcc> ok
 101 2010-12-29 00:26:05 dduane has quit (Changing host)
 102 2010-12-29 00:26:05 dduane has joined
 103 2010-12-29 00:27:06 <theymos> nanotube: SHA-256 hashes in 64-byte segments. The first 64 bytes of the block header doesn't change during mining, so Bitcoin computes this part of the hash for you as the midstate.
 104 2010-12-29 00:27:33 <nanotube> mm interesting.
 105 2010-12-29 00:27:59 <nanotube> so what parts do the first 64bytes of the header depend on?
 106 2010-12-29 00:28:26 <marioxcc> theymos: so midstate is the result of applying the compression function to the first 64B block?
 107 2010-12-29 00:28:29 <sipa> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=block_hashing_algorithm
 108 2010-12-29 00:29:26 <marioxcc> sipa: that page says nothing regarding midstate
 109 2010-12-29 00:29:29 <theymos> marioxcc: I don't know the details, but I think it's nearly a complete hash. There are at least some differences to a real hash, though.
 110 2010-12-29 00:29:57 <marioxcc> ok
 111 2010-12-29 00:30:01 <marioxcc> thanks you
 112 2010-12-29 00:30:12 <sipa> marioxcc: the version + previous hash + merkle root give the first 64 bytes i think
 113 2010-12-29 00:30:32 <sipa> timestamp, difficulty and nonce are in the second
 114 2010-12-29 00:30:44 <marioxcc> ok
 115 2010-12-29 00:30:52 <theymos> Only part of the Merkle root is covered in the first half.
 116 2010-12-29 00:31:40 <sipa> sure?
 117 2010-12-29 00:32:08 <sipa> hmm, maybe
 118 2010-12-29 00:32:11 <theymos> Version (4)+prev(32)+merkle(32)
 119 2010-12-29 00:32:45 <sipa> right
 120 2010-12-29 00:43:13 asdf30 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 121 2010-12-29 00:46:11 edcba_ is now known as edcba
 122 2010-12-29 00:53:50 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 123 2010-12-29 01:02:19 <marioxcc> what do you think about a decentralized pool miner?
 124 2010-12-29 01:02:30 <INEEDMONEY> I think I cant get jgarziks to work on my laptop
 125 2010-12-29 01:02:39 <INEEDMONEY> error 500
 126 2010-12-29 01:03:37 <INEEDMONEY> something do do with the rpc
 127 2010-12-29 01:03:49 <marioxcc> INEEDMONEY: jgarziks?
 128 2010-12-29 01:03:49 <nanotube> marioxcc: how would that work?
 129 2010-12-29 01:03:56 <INEEDMONEY> yeah
 130 2010-12-29 01:04:02 <marioxcc> INEEDMONEY: what's that?
 131 2010-12-29 01:04:05 <INEEDMONEY> his CPU miner
 132 2010-12-29 01:04:08 <marioxcc> oh, ok
 133 2010-12-29 01:04:15 <INEEDMONEY> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.0
 134 2010-12-29 01:04:16 <nanotube> INEEDMONEY: see 'minerd --help' for options you have to provide.
 135 2010-12-29 01:04:16 <bitbot> New demonstration CPU miner available
 136 2010-12-29 01:04:17 <INEEDMONEY> pretty cool
 137 2010-12-29 01:04:17 <marioxcc> yah, i know
 138 2010-12-29 01:04:22 <INEEDMONEY> nanotube: I know...
 139 2010-12-29 01:04:38 <marioxcc> nanotube: my idea is
 140 2010-12-29 01:04:46 <marioxcc> every node would work on the block
 141 2010-12-29 01:04:55 <marioxcc> and report some results
 142 2010-12-29 01:04:57 <INEEDMONEY> "requested URL return error: 500"
 143 2010-12-29 01:05:06 <nanotube> what is the full command line you're using?
 144 2010-12-29 01:05:14 <nanotube> marioxcc: report to who?
 145 2010-12-29 01:05:14 <marioxcc> like the slush approach
 146 2010-12-29 01:05:24 <marioxcc> nanotube: to all other nodes
 147 2010-12-29 01:05:32 <INEEDMONEY> minerd -D -P -t 4 --userpass <user>:<pass>
 148 2010-12-29 01:05:41 <nanotube> marioxcc: how would you prevent a node from keeping a real block generation to itself?
 149 2010-12-29 01:05:58 <nanotube> INEEDMONEY: are you trying to connect to the slush pool miner? or to a locally-running bitcoind?
 150 2010-12-29 01:06:03 <theymos> marioxcc: To verify that the block peers are working on is valid, the workers need to see it. However, if they see the whole block, then they can steal the block when they find a winning hash.
 151 2010-12-29 01:06:08 <marioxcc> nanotube: the block could include a transfer to every other peer
 152 2010-12-29 01:06:18 <INEEDMONEY> LAN
 153 2010-12-29 01:06:33 <nanotube> INEEDMONEY: you have to specify the ip addr and port to which you want the miner to connect for getwork
 154 2010-12-29 01:06:44 <devon_hillard> just sent my first BTC, to Diablo :)
 155 2010-12-29 01:06:46 <INEEDMONEY> where do I specify?
 156 2010-12-29 01:06:52 <marioxcc> then the node would report the finds above certain difficulty
 157 2010-12-29 01:06:58 <marioxcc> to every other node, and
 158 2010-12-29 01:06:59 <nanotube> INEEDMONEY: see 'minerd --help' :)
 159 2010-12-29 01:07:09 <INEEDMONEY> that hasnt helped yet
 160 2010-12-29 01:07:12 <marioxcc> it would be added to the transaction list in the block they're currently working on
 161 2010-12-29 01:07:19 <marioxcc> ?
 162 2010-12-29 01:07:47 <nanotube> INEEDMONEY: --url option?
 163 2010-12-29 01:08:00 <nanotube> marioxcc: how would you decide how much goes to each address?
 164 2010-12-29 01:08:19 <marioxcc> nanotube: depending on how much partial result the other nodes reported
 165 2010-12-29 01:08:22 <nanotube> marioxcc: and how do you deal with the problem currently facing the puddinpop approach, with the sub-cent amounts?
 166 2010-12-29 01:08:36 <marioxcc> that's what i don't know
 167 2010-12-29 01:08:37 <nanotube> marioxcc: but a node could artificially inflate its own share?
 168 2010-12-29 01:08:40 <slush> marioxcc: Are you talking about 'pooled mining' without central entity?
 169 2010-12-29 01:08:46 <INEEDMONEY> nanotube: oh, I thought that was for something else, thank you!
 170 2010-12-29 01:08:50 <marioxcc> slush: yes
 171 2010-12-29 01:08:50 <nanotube> INEEDMONEY: np :)
 172 2010-12-29 01:09:03 <marioxcc> nanotube: it could, but then partial results would be rejected by rest nodes
 173 2010-12-29 01:09:32 <marioxcc> and will not get shares in the network by doing so
 174 2010-12-29 01:09:40 <devon_hillard> is diablo-d3 online?
 175 2010-12-29 01:09:41 <nanotube> marioxcc: mmm well... i can see how it could work. only problem is the subcent distributions that would get eaten up as fees.
 176 2010-12-29 01:09:50 <marioxcc> yes
 177 2010-12-29 01:09:53 <nanotube> devon_hillard: seems he's not here on this channel.
 178 2010-12-29 01:10:07 <marioxcc> the solution could be a random payment schenduling
 179 2010-12-29 01:10:15 <nanotube> marioxcc: explain?
 180 2010-12-29 01:10:20 <nanotube> what do you mean by that
 181 2010-12-29 01:10:29 <marioxcc> nanotube: say there are 10000 nodes working on the pool
 182 2010-12-29 01:10:30 <da2ce7> ;;seen noagendamarket
 183 2010-12-29 01:10:31 <gribble> noagendamarket was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 19 hours, 8 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <noagendamarket> :)-
 184 2010-12-29 01:10:38 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 185 2010-12-29 01:10:45 <nanotube> ok
 186 2010-12-29 01:10:46 <marioxcc> well, 10000 shares at one point in time
 187 2010-12-29 01:10:57 <marioxcc> that means
 188 2010-12-29 01:11:01 <marioxcc> 0.005 BTC per share
 189 2010-12-29 01:11:11 <marioxcc> but only half the shares (at random) would get paid
 190 2010-12-29 01:11:15 <marioxcc> the double
 191 2010-12-29 01:11:20 <marioxcc> then some shares would get nothing
 192 2010-12-29 01:11:23 <marioxcc> others would get double
 193 2010-12-29 01:11:28 <marioxcc> randomly
 194 2010-12-29 01:11:33 <marioxcc> the problem is to ensure randomness
 195 2010-12-29 01:11:41 <marioxcc> ¿some idea?
 196 2010-12-29 01:11:52 <theymos> You can use the hash of a block.
 197 2010-12-29 01:12:07 <marioxcc> of which block?
 198 2010-12-29 01:12:08 <marioxcc> the current one?
 199 2010-12-29 01:12:15 <devon_hillard> there's surprisingly little code in a miner, just a java class and a .cl file (not sure what the .cl is)
 200 2010-12-29 01:12:21 <theymos> marioxcc: Yes.
 201 2010-12-29 01:12:23 <marioxcc> the current block will include a transaction to send the 50 BTC
 202 2010-12-29 01:12:31 <marioxcc> so you don't know in advance it hash
 203 2010-12-29 01:12:37 <slush> devon_hillard: .cl is the source for GPU
 204 2010-12-29 01:12:39 <marioxcc> maybe you have a differnent idea
 205 2010-12-29 01:12:46 <marioxcc> could you please elaborate? :)
 206 2010-12-29 01:13:03 <theymos> marioxcc: You could use the previous block, then.
 207 2010-12-29 01:13:54 <marioxcc> maybe
 208 2010-12-29 01:14:05 <marioxcc> use its hash as the random number
 209 2010-12-29 01:14:14 <marioxcc> in the other hand
 210 2010-12-29 01:14:19 <theymos> Randomness isn't necessary. If everyone uses the same rounding scheme, there's no problem.
 211 2010-12-29 01:14:37 <slush> marioxcc: How can you achieve that my miner will work on block with divided reward? Miner will multicast some partial PoW to tell others he is working?
 212 2010-12-29 01:14:39 <marioxcc> theymos: it's a problem if it is biased
 213 2010-12-29 01:15:05 <marioxcc> slush: yes
 214 2010-12-29 01:15:10 <slush> and working on right block
 215 2010-12-29 01:15:13 <marioxcc> just like your systen currently does
 216 2010-12-29 01:15:19 <theymos> marioxcc: If you don't like the rounding scheme, go to a different pool with participants that use different rules.
 217 2010-12-29 01:16:00 <marioxcc> theymos: what i want to avoid is to open the possibility to manipulate the rounding schemes
 218 2010-12-29 01:16:08 <Cusipzzz> or just create your own pool ! You keep everything =)
 219 2010-12-29 01:16:09 <marioxcc> so some persons get paid more
 220 2010-12-29 01:16:10 <devon_hillard> "A wise man once said, '↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A'" -- Mortal Kombat cheat code?
 221 2010-12-29 01:16:14 <nanotube> theymos: how would it work, if say, one is using a slow cpu miner, that gets < 0.01 per block with every block?
 222 2010-12-29 01:16:43 <INEEDMONEY> marioxcc: you know where to ask for custom shit
 223 2010-12-29 01:17:03 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 224 2010-12-29 01:17:18 AAA_awright has joined
 225 2010-12-29 01:17:31 <marioxcc> INEEDMONEY: If such system is possible i would like to develop it myself
 226 2010-12-29 01:17:36 asdf30 has joined
 227 2010-12-29 01:17:48 <marioxcc> let's see
 228 2010-12-29 01:18:02 <marioxcc> a new block could have multiple outputs?
 229 2010-12-29 01:18:06 <theymos> nanotube: Don't mine, I guess. Distributed mining will never work in the long-term, anyway, since individual miners won't have the network/disk resources necessary.
 230 2010-12-29 01:18:21 <INEEDMONEY> marioxcc: I'd help you
 231 2010-12-29 01:18:39 <nanotube> theymos: ah well... that's sad. :) i like putting my vps cpu core to productive use. :)
 232 2010-12-29 01:18:54 <slush> marioxcc: How do you prevent double spending? Acting one miner as many many miners in network?
 233 2010-12-29 01:19:17 <marioxcc> slush: what do you mean?
 234 2010-12-29 01:19:24 <nanotube> marioxcc: yes it's possible. see how puddinpop's pooled miner scheme does it. and you can also look at a few of the blocks that have been generated with puddinpop-style pools.
 235 2010-12-29 01:19:38 <marioxcc> nanotube: true...
 236 2010-12-29 01:19:41 <marioxcc> ...i will do
 237 2010-12-29 01:19:49 <slush> marioxcc: I will crunch one hash but will multicast my partial work as I'm many workers
 238 2010-12-29 01:20:45 <marioxcc> slush: each partial PoW would be one share
 239 2010-12-29 01:20:46 ThomasV has joined
 240 2010-12-29 01:20:57 <marioxcc> just like in the current system you do run
 241 2010-12-29 01:21:07 <slush> marioxcc: but this share need check if it is valid
 242 2010-12-29 01:21:17 <marioxcc> all nodes would check that, of course
 243 2010-12-29 01:21:23 <slush> marioxcc: _all_ nodes?
 244 2010-12-29 01:21:31 <marioxcc> all nodes in the distribued miner
 245 2010-12-29 01:21:38 <marioxcc> not all bitcoin nodes
 246 2010-12-29 01:22:26 <nanotube> marioxcc: i'm liking this idea... could take off. :)
 247 2010-12-29 01:22:29 <slush> marioxcc: You did not respond my double spending question. What if I take 'share' from another miner and multicast it to rest of  pool network as my own share?
 248 2010-12-29 01:22:52 <nanotube> slush: presumably identical shares would count only once
 249 2010-12-29 01:23:00 <devon_hillard> To economize network power use, is it possible to devise a scheme where work is shared as in a pool, but secure from pool owner making off with the coins?
 250 2010-12-29 01:23:02 <marioxcc> yes
 251 2010-12-29 01:23:14 <marioxcc> identical mini PoW (shares) count only once
 252 2010-12-29 01:23:50 <marioxcc> devon_hillard: that's what i'm are purposing (I think)
 253 2010-12-29 01:24:04 <nanotube> devon_hillard: well, that is what marioxcc is attempting to devise. the genius of slush pool architecture, but distributed. :)
 254 2010-12-29 01:24:06 <marioxcc> slush: so, i don't really see the double spending problems
 255 2010-12-29 01:24:31 <marioxcc> of course, not all nodes will work on the very same block
 256 2010-12-29 01:24:35 <marioxcc> so to avoid collisions
 257 2010-12-29 01:24:50 ][ceman has joined
 258 2010-12-29 01:24:54 <theymos> devon_hillard: The puddinpop pool actually ensures owner honesty, since the reward is sent directly to miners. You download the temporary block (block.txt), so you know it's constructed correctly.
 259 2010-12-29 01:25:24 <theymos> Really, these guarantees are distributed enough. A fully-distributed pool seems unnecessary.
 260 2010-12-29 01:25:27 <nanotube> theymos: what prevents the puddinpop pool owner from 'stuffing' the block with his own shares?
 261 2010-12-29 01:25:52 <theymos> nanotube: He could, but he couldn't reduce your share without you knowing about it.
 262 2010-12-29 01:26:01 <marioxcc> also think a totally distributed pool don't relies on a central server
 263 2010-12-29 01:26:08 <marioxcc> and no one needs to pay hosting, for instance
 264 2010-12-29 01:26:21 <slush> theymos: how do you know how many other miners are working on block (so how large is your share)?
 265 2010-12-29 01:26:37 <theymos> You can have multiple pool servers. Central servers will be necessary when the block chain is several terabytes in size.
 266 2010-12-29 01:27:07 <nanotube> theymos: but he could just not increase your share in the first place
 267 2010-12-29 01:27:13 <theymos> slush: You don't, but you can compare your reward on this pool to your reward on other pools, after taking into account historical generation times.
 268 2010-12-29 01:27:21 <devon_hillard> well, you have an idea of an expected payoff and if being in a pool the payoff is less than that, you can smell owner abusing the network
 269 2010-12-29 01:27:29 <nanotube> theymos: since nobody but the pool op knows total hash rate... how can an individual client know whether his 1mhps is 1% of the net, or 5% of the net?
 270 2010-12-29 01:27:32 <devon_hillard> unless the owner was only shaving off 1-2% off the top
 271 2010-12-29 01:27:59 <marioxcc> theymos: i though there was no need to store the complete block chain
 272 2010-12-29 01:28:22 <nanotube> yea, a due to randomness, pool owner could easily shave off 5-10% without being verifiable
 273 2010-12-29 01:28:35 <theymos> Given reward distribution, you can calculate how much CPU power a pool has on average.
 274 2010-12-29 01:28:54 <theymos> (Given reward distribution and block times over a long period of time, I mean.)
 275 2010-12-29 01:29:09 <marioxcc> i think the only real solution is a totally distributed pool
 276 2010-12-29 01:29:23 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 277 2010-12-29 01:29:23 <marioxcc> where each node validates everyone else actions before granting a share to him in the block he is working on
 278 2010-12-29 01:29:23 <theymos> marioxcc: Generators always need to store all unspent generations. Clients don't need to.
 279 2010-12-29 01:29:27 slush1 has joined
 280 2010-12-29 01:29:37 <marioxcc> theymos: ok, got it
 281 2010-12-29 01:29:37 slush1 is now known as slush
 282 2010-12-29 01:30:40 <slush> marioxcc: How can peers check PoW of another node?
 283 2010-12-29 01:30:53 <slush> marioxcc: I'm checking it because I know input data
 284 2010-12-29 01:31:12 <marioxcc> slush: because the input data is public in the network
 285 2010-12-29 01:31:24 <marioxcc> in overall: there is an agreed data block to work on
 286 2010-12-29 01:31:33 <marioxcc> once someone submits a PoW of the current agreed data
 287 2010-12-29 01:31:38 <marioxcc> he is guaranted a share
 288 2010-12-29 01:31:47 <marioxcc> and he is include in such agreed data block
 289 2010-12-29 01:31:48 <slush> marioxcc: So also shares will be public in pool?
 290 2010-12-29 01:32:00 <marioxcc> slush: yes
 291 2010-12-29 01:32:13 <marioxcc> public in the sense anyone knows who have how many shares
 292 2010-12-29 01:32:23 <nanotube> marioxcc: i'm going afk... but i like the idea. good luck :)
 293 2010-12-29 01:32:24 <marioxcc> not in the sense anybody could claim them
 294 2010-12-29 01:32:28 <marioxcc> nanotube: thanks you
 295 2010-12-29 01:32:31 <slush> marioxcc: Why I should work on block when my reward is not included in block? (I'm in the second half of workers)
 296 2010-12-29 01:32:48 <marioxcc> slush: that's up to be decided
 297 2010-12-29 01:32:57 <marioxcc> i'm not sure
 298 2010-12-29 01:33:01 <marioxcc> but for now
 299 2010-12-29 01:33:04 <marioxcc> in the first place
 300 2010-12-29 01:33:05 <devon_hillard> ok, I've got it, have miner programs do a running payoff estimate based on the total number of hashes attempted
 301 2010-12-29 01:33:17 <marioxcc> you will be likley included in the next generated block
 302 2010-12-29 01:33:20 <marioxcc> if you work on the current one
 303 2010-12-29 01:33:43 <marioxcc> according to a random number (could be decided collectively by a hash of random numbers provided by every other node)
 304 2010-12-29 01:33:45 <slush> how much 'included'. Is one submitted share enough?
 305 2010-12-29 01:33:48 <devon_hillard> if the expected payoff is different over a while from the actual payoff (using different people), the pool owner is skimming off the top
 306 2010-12-29 01:34:28 <marioxcc> slush: my idea is: the chance to be included is proportional to the PoW you have submitted
 307 2010-12-29 01:34:30 <devon_hillard> so, you did 10^13 hashes, your payoff should be X BTC
 308 2010-12-29 01:34:34 <slush> I have to go. But I'm interested in your idea
 309 2010-12-29 01:34:58 <marioxcc> thanks for your support
 310 2010-12-29 01:35:05 <marioxcc> i will keep thinking :)
 311 2010-12-29 01:35:43 <marioxcc> i'm going for a (non alchooling) drink, brb
 312 2010-12-29 01:35:46 <marioxcc> and regards
 313 2010-12-29 01:36:02 <slush> But I'm still not convinced it will be secure & fast enough :)
 314 2010-12-29 01:37:53 * marioxcc is back
 315 2010-12-29 01:38:10 <marioxcc> slush: the only problem I see is bandwidth
 316 2010-12-29 01:38:38 <marioxcc> nodes that don't follow the rules aren't guarented shares
 317 2010-12-29 01:39:27 <marioxcc> when 0.01 BTC granularity is not enough and some pays are well bellow 1 BTC the payment is 0.01 BTC and aguarded acoording to rotation or a random number
 318 2010-12-29 01:39:41 <marioxcc> of course, the random number is dediced by the network as a whole
 319 2010-12-29 01:40:03 <marioxcc> there are some schemes to get random numbers without relying on trust
 320 2010-12-29 01:52:46 slush has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 321 2010-12-29 01:59:18 sec^nd has left ("goodbye")
 322 2010-12-29 02:05:12 ][ceman has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 323 2010-12-29 02:06:04 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 324 2010-12-29 02:13:01 marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK
 325 2010-12-29 02:15:34 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
 326 2010-12-29 02:15:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99926 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 873 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 14 hours, 20 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15724.69532934
 327 2010-12-29 02:20:03 BoBeR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 328 2010-12-29 02:20:19 BoBeR has joined
 329 2010-12-29 02:26:19 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 330 2010-12-29 02:29:20 <BoBeR> hai
 331 2010-12-29 02:38:01 <afed> gonna hit 100000
 332 2010-12-29 02:38:15 <afed> i wish i didn't have to turn off my GPUs to sleep :)
 333 2010-12-29 02:38:38 midnightmagic has joined
 334 2010-12-29 02:43:48 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
 335 2010-12-29 02:43:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99932 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 867 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 12 hours, 56 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15751.62749757
 336 2010-12-29 03:23:55 <EvanR> we latch on to whatever fleeting significances we can
 337 2010-12-29 03:24:20 <EvanR> to make sense of the nonsensical world
 338 2010-12-29 03:26:16 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 104000
 339 2010-12-29 03:26:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 104000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 6 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes, and 23 seconds
 340 2010-12-29 03:29:14 Cusipzzzz has joined
 341 2010-12-29 03:29:20 Cusipzzzz has quit (Client Quit)
 342 2010-12-29 03:30:02 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 343 2010-12-29 03:33:38 Cusipzzz has joined
 344 2010-12-29 03:39:20 marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc
 345 2010-12-29 03:44:24 <Keefe> price at mtgox is on a tear :)
 346 2010-12-29 03:44:35 <Keefe> hit 0.30
 347 2010-12-29 03:47:45 <afed> lol ordering more radeons
 348 2010-12-29 03:47:59 <afed> honestly who wants these things anyway :)
 349 2010-12-29 03:48:19 <afed> the invisible hand wants what it wants
 350 2010-12-29 03:48:59 mrb__ has joined
 351 2010-12-29 03:52:27 <marioxcc> yeah, GPU's seem to be very profitable
 352 2010-12-29 03:52:51 <marioxcc> maybe a RAM-intensive proof of work could have turned the other way
 353 2010-12-29 03:54:13 <marioxcc> I was thinking of
 354 2010-12-29 03:54:26 <marioxcc> what would be a good RAM-intensive PoW
 355 2010-12-29 03:54:33 <marioxcc> maybe to find a partial collision
 356 2010-12-29 03:54:48 <marioxcc> you would have to keep as much hashes in RAM as they could fit
 357 2010-12-29 03:55:06 genjix has joined
 358 2010-12-29 04:13:05 fabianhjr has joined
 359 2010-12-29 04:13:36 <fabianhjr> Yes, one step closer to parity. :D Now a Bitcoin is worth 0.3 bucks. :)
 360 2010-12-29 04:13:41 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,market
 361 2010-12-29 04:13:42 <gribble> Error: "bc,market" is not a valid command.
 362 2010-12-29 04:13:49 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,help
 363 2010-12-29 04:13:49 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
 364 2010-12-29 04:13:55 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,markets
 365 2010-12-29 04:13:57 <gribble> bcmLRUSD: 0.26 (100 BTC) 0.26/None | bcmPPUSD: 0.295 (100 BTC) 0.2701/0.3 | bcmPXGAU: 0.0061 (300 BTC) 0.0046/0.0062 | btcexJPY: 2 (0.8 BTC) None/None | btcexRUB: 8.7 (12.92 BTC) None/None | btcexWMR: 8 (508 BTC) None/None | mtgoxUSD: 0.301 (15061.2 BTC) 0.274/0.3
 366 2010-12-29 04:16:26 <fabianhjr> Anyone here?
 367 2010-12-29 04:17:44 <marioxcc> what's up?
 368 2010-12-29 04:18:10 <fabianhjr> BoBeR: what ya doing?
 369 2010-12-29 04:20:46 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 370 2010-12-29 04:23:25 <marioxcc> is someone else interested in the distributed decentralized pool miner?
 371 2010-12-29 04:23:59 kisom_dev has joined
 372 2010-12-29 04:27:33 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: yo yo yo yo yo yo, when you will answer my interview question?
 373 2010-12-29 04:27:45 fabianhjr_ has joined
 374 2010-12-29 04:28:14 <fabianhjr_> Damn ISP and Electric Company. Why monopolies are so bad?
 375 2010-12-29 04:28:59 <marioxcc> ?
 376 2010-12-29 04:29:23 <Kiba> ya know...what my favorite character?
 377 2010-12-29 04:29:34 <Kiba> nvm
 378 2010-12-29 04:30:03 <BoBeR> good
 379 2010-12-29 04:30:03 <BoBeR> you
 380 2010-12-29 04:30:09 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 381 2010-12-29 04:30:12 fabianhjr_ is now known as fabianhjr
 382 2010-12-29 04:30:32 <fabianhjr> Kiba: Satoshi?
 383 2010-12-29 04:30:46 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 384 2010-12-29 04:32:06 <da2ce7> price is going up, looks like I'm going to have to invest in more GPU's insted of buying coin.
 385 2010-12-29 04:32:28 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: La puta central de Telmex no puede manterner una conexion constante y me desconencto en promedio cada 6 horas. Algunas veces durrante mis partidas importantes de BF:BC2
 386 2010-12-29 04:32:57 <fabianhjr> da2ce7: next difficulty is +2000 away. It is self regulating, ya know?
 387 2010-12-29 04:33:07 <fabianhjr> ;;bc,nexttarget
 388 2010-12-29 04:33:08 <gribble> 100799
 389 2010-12-29 04:33:10 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: oh vaya
 390 2010-12-29 04:33:13 <Keefe> last time the price at mtgox was higher than this was during the paypal fraud wave in early Nov
 391 2010-12-29 04:33:14 <marioxcc> yo tengo el de megacable
 392 2010-12-29 04:33:46 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: yo quiero cambiarme al que esta empezando: totalplay. El problema es que mi papa esta amarrado por contrato.
 393 2010-12-29 04:34:09 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: si, es un asco eso de los contratos a largo plazo
 394 2010-12-29 04:34:18 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
 395 2010-12-29 04:34:19 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.301,"low":0.2612,"vol":30487,"buy":0.274,"sell":0.3,"last":0.301}}
 396 2010-12-29 04:34:25 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: :P de todas formas todos lo tienen.
 397 2010-12-29 04:34:40 <marioxcc> bueno, nosotros pagamos el famoso 14x12 varios años
 398 2010-12-29 04:34:51 <marioxcc> ahora están quitando la señal análoga
 399 2010-12-29 04:34:53 <mizerydearia> Keefe, Actually, didn't the price peak at 0.35 recently?
 400 2010-12-29 04:34:56 <da2ce7> ;;math 30487 * 0.2612
 401 2010-12-29 04:34:57 <gribble> Error: The "Math" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "30487" in it.  Try "list Math" to see the commands in the "Math" plugin.
 402 2010-12-29 04:35:05 <da2ce7> ;;math,calc 30487 * 0.2612
 403 2010-12-29 04:35:06 <gribble> Error: "math,calc" is not a valid command.
 404 2010-12-29 04:35:06 <marioxcc> y el converidor que dan de gama baja al parecer no funcioa con todas las TV's
 405 2010-12-29 04:35:17 <da2ce7> ;;math,help 30487 * 0.2612
 406 2010-12-29 04:35:18 <gribble> Error: "math,help" is not a valid command.
 407 2010-12-29 04:35:19 <fabianhjr> xD Al menos you tengo 5 abojo uno arriba.(MBps)
 408 2010-12-29 04:35:36 <nanotube> da2ce7: 'math calc <expr>'
 409 2010-12-29 04:35:47 kisom_dev has joined
 410 2010-12-29 04:35:47 <da2ce7> ;;math calc 30487 * 0.2612
 411 2010-12-29 04:35:48 <gribble> 7963.2044
 412 2010-12-29 04:35:56 <nanotube> is that how many btc you have, da2ce7 :)
 413 2010-12-29 04:35:59 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: yo tengo el de 2 Mb/s pero parece que ha subido un poco
 414 2010-12-29 04:36:07 <fabianhjr> da2ce7: the latest transaction was of 0.3 USD per BTC
 415 2010-12-29 04:36:09 <marioxcc> llega a ~350 MB/s
 416 2010-12-29 04:36:28 <Keefe> mizerydearia: like Nov 9?
 417 2010-12-29 04:36:35 <mizerydearia> November 8th, 6pm
 418 2010-12-29 04:36:36 <fabianhjr> 0_o no es posible. No se puede transmitir tan rapido por una linea de cobre.
 419 2010-12-29 04:36:37 <da2ce7> no, how much $ was moved on mtgox today.
 420 2010-12-29 04:36:37 <mizerydearia> yep
 421 2010-12-29 04:37:04 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: ¿cómo?
 422 2010-12-29 04:37:07 <Keefe> that's what i was referring to as the fraud wave, about Nov 4-9
 423 2010-12-29 04:37:14 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: digo 2 megabits
 424 2010-12-29 04:37:17 <marioxcc> no megabytes
 425 2010-12-29 04:37:18 <marioxcc> jeje
 426 2010-12-29 04:37:41 <marioxcc> igual yo no uso mucho ancho de banda así que puse un relevo de tor
 427 2010-12-29 04:37:59 <mizerydearia> Oooh, no community in #bitcoin-it yet
 428 2010-12-29 04:38:10 <da2ce7> I was going to buy a couple of thousand more bitcoin... but now it is better to get a new 6950 and unlock it to a 6970 :D
 429 2010-12-29 04:38:16 <mizerydearia> fabianhjr, How many Italians are there in the bitcoin community nowadays?
 430 2010-12-29 04:38:20 <nanotube> mizerydearia: italian?
 431 2010-12-29 04:38:24 <fabianhjr> xD demonios. Odio el marketing. En los anuncios y pagina de Telmex dicen que es en Mega(1024 * 1024) Bytes(8 bits)
 432 2010-12-29 04:38:30 <mizerydearia> nanotube, I think so
 433 2010-12-29 04:38:38 <mizerydearia> http://bitcoin.it
 434 2010-12-29 04:38:42 <nanotube> ah
 435 2010-12-29 04:38:48 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: oh, xD
 436 2010-12-29 04:38:52 <nanotube> ;;sl italy tld
 437 2010-12-29 04:38:52 <gribble> http://tldv.com/Dot-it-Italy.htm | it - Italy domain names with availability and background information.
 438 2010-12-29 04:38:55 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: I am a mexican you spanish newb! :P
 439 2010-12-29 04:39:04 <mizerydearia> fabianhjr, I used google translate
 440 2010-12-29 04:39:11 <mizerydearia> It autodetected Italian
 441 2010-12-29 04:39:16 <marioxcc> mizerydearia: it's a BS
 442 2010-12-29 04:39:16 <nanotube> really?
 443 2010-12-29 04:39:18 <fabianhjr> lol xD
 444 2010-12-29 04:39:39 <nanotube> ;;translate auto to en no es posible. No se puede transmitir tan rapido por una linea de cobre.
 445 2010-12-29 04:39:40 <gribble> (Detected source language: Spanish) not possible. Can not be transmitted as quickly by a copper line.
 446 2010-12-29 04:39:47 <mizerydearia> hmm
 447 2010-12-29 04:39:54 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: come to #bitcoin-mx
 448 2010-12-29 04:39:55 <nanotube> spanish, as it should be
 449 2010-12-29 04:40:29 <nanotube> fabianhjr: heh, maybe to avoid too much fragmentation, you could just do #bitcoin-es (for espanol)... so you can get all the spanish speakers together?
 450 2010-12-29 04:40:49 <mizerydearia> Strange, it detected Italian at first, but not shows Spanish.
 451 2010-12-29 04:40:56 <mizerydearia> s/not/now/
 452 2010-12-29 04:41:14 <nanotube> mm
 453 2010-12-29 04:41:22 <mizerydearia> "non è possibile. Non può essere trasmessa il più rapidamente da una linea in rame." looks more Italian
 454 2010-12-29 04:41:24 <nanotube> the ghost in the google translate. :)
 455 2010-12-29 04:41:31 <fabianhjr> nanotube: already moved to -mx
 456 2010-12-29 04:41:41 <nanotube> fabianhjr: ok, just a suggestion. :)
 457 2010-12-29 04:42:01 <fabianhjr> nanotube: #bitcoin-mx if you can speak spanish :P
 458 2010-12-29 04:42:24 <mizerydearia> Also a few days ago I noticed http://bitcoin.at redirects to http://bitcoin.it
 459 2010-12-29 04:43:50 BoBeR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 460 2010-12-29 04:44:10 BoBeR has joined
 461 2010-12-29 04:46:18 marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK
 462 2010-12-29 04:49:17 Cusipzzzz has joined
 463 2010-12-29 04:49:28 Cusipzzzz has quit (Client Quit)
 464 2010-12-29 04:52:00 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 465 2010-12-29 04:52:53 Cusipzzz has joined
 466 2010-12-29 05:06:37 <Kiba> I see that the price of bitcoin briefly hit .30
 467 2010-12-29 05:06:56 <afed> who is buying these things :)
 468 2010-12-29 05:11:05 <nanotube> people who need them and/or think it's going to go higher.
 469 2010-12-29 05:11:41 <genjix> third group- those who like the idea.
 470 2010-12-29 05:19:16 <Kiba> it's a rather slow rise
 471 2010-12-29 05:19:20 <Kiba> than what come before it
 472 2010-12-29 05:19:28 <Kiba> or now
 473 2010-12-29 05:19:30 <Kiba> s/now/not
 474 2010-12-29 05:19:57 <Kiba> we just reached 5 million bitcoins in circulation just now
 475 2010-12-29 05:20:55 <nanotube> nice
 476 2010-12-29 05:21:19 <nanotube> 1.4m usd
 477 2010-12-29 05:21:58 <OneFixt> I'm pretty sure we need 44 more blocks for 5 million btc
 478 2010-12-29 05:23:27 <nanotube> bc,blocks
 479 2010-12-29 05:23:32 <nanotube> ;;bc,blocks
 480 2010-12-29 05:23:32 <gribble> 99957
 481 2010-12-29 05:23:54 <nanotube> yea... heh
 482 2010-12-29 05:25:43 fabianhjr_ has joined
 483 2010-12-29 05:27:56 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 484 2010-12-29 05:28:10 fabianhjr_ is now known as fabianhjr
 485 2010-12-29 05:35:32 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 486 2010-12-29 05:36:22 Cusipzzz has joined
 487 2010-12-29 05:42:29 marioxcc-AFK has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 488 2010-12-29 05:43:42 remmy_ has joined
 489 2010-12-29 05:48:04 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
 490 2010-12-29 05:58:02 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 491 2010-12-29 06:03:05 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 492 2010-12-29 06:15:15 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
 493 2010-12-29 06:15:24 darrob has joined
 494 2010-12-29 06:16:13 zeser has joined
 495 2010-12-29 06:16:51 zeser has quit (Client Quit)
 496 2010-12-29 06:18:39 <mizerydearia> ;bcs
 497 2010-12-29 06:18:41 <bitbot> mizerydearia: CurrentBlockCount( 99,962 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 14,484.1623612300 ) NextDifficultyAt( 100,800 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 838 blocks )
 498 2010-12-29 06:19:32 <lfm> bitbot is back!
 499 2010-12-29 06:19:40 <mizerydearia> bitbot has been back?
 500 2010-12-29 06:19:46 <mizerydearia> ;dance
 501 2010-12-29 06:19:46 <bitbot> :D\-<
 502 2010-12-29 06:19:47 <bitbot> :D|-<
 503 2010-12-29 06:19:48 <bitbot> :D/-<
 504 2010-12-29 06:20:48 Cusipzzz has quit ()
 505 2010-12-29 06:21:09 acous has joined
 506 2010-12-29 06:21:10 acous has quit (Changing host)
 507 2010-12-29 06:21:10 acous has joined
 508 2010-12-29 06:21:14 <bitbot> ;dance
 509 2010-12-29 06:21:15 <mizerydearia> :D\-<
 510 2010-12-29 06:21:16 <mizerydearia> :D|-<
 511 2010-12-29 06:21:18 <mizerydearia> :D/-<
 512 2010-12-29 06:21:28 <mizerydearia> O_O wtf?
 513 2010-12-29 06:21:42 <mizerydearia> I'm not a bot...
 514 2010-12-29 06:24:05 <OneFixt>  ͡๏̯͡๏
 515 2010-12-29 06:24:22 <OneFixt> ;dance
 516 2010-12-29 06:24:23 <bitbot> :D\-<
 517 2010-12-29 06:24:25 <bitbot> :D|-<
 518 2010-12-29 06:24:26 <bitbot> :D/-<
 519 2010-12-29 06:36:01 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 520 2010-12-29 06:42:05 <nanotube> heh
 521 2010-12-29 06:43:35 <EvanR> what in the name of
 522 2010-12-29 06:47:09 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 523 2010-12-29 06:53:24 <da2ce7> we should have a 100000 block party!
 524 2010-12-29 06:53:25 <da2ce7> :D
 525 2010-12-29 06:56:32 <BoBeR> okay
 526 2010-12-29 06:56:39 <BoBeR> i will deliver booze for bitcoin
 527 2010-12-29 06:57:09 larsivi has joined
 528 2010-12-29 06:57:10 <BoBeR> ;dance
 529 2010-12-29 06:57:11 <bitbot> :D\-<
 530 2010-12-29 06:57:11 <BoBeR> ;dance
 531 2010-12-29 06:57:12 <bitbot> :D|-<
 532 2010-12-29 06:57:13 <bitbot> :D/-<
 533 2010-12-29 06:57:14 <bitbot> :D\-<
 534 2010-12-29 06:57:15 <bitbot> :D|-<
 535 2010-12-29 06:57:16 <bitbot> :D/-<
 536 2010-12-29 07:00:16 akem has joined
 537 2010-12-29 07:10:02 <da2ce7> BoBeR, Yes that is what we need! A bitcoin Liquor store!
 538 2010-12-29 07:10:04 <da2ce7> !!
 539 2010-12-29 07:10:27 <da2ce7> Sombody own a microbrewery?
 540 2010-12-29 07:10:35 <da2ce7> and still
 541 2010-12-29 07:12:18 warner has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
 542 2010-12-29 07:12:32 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 543 2010-12-29 07:12:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 99967 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 832 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 7 hours, 34 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15826.67919563
 544 2010-12-29 07:12:53 <BoBeR> how long is this block currently
 545 2010-12-29 07:16:35 <lfm> just 1 txn i think
 546 2010-12-29 07:22:54 <BoBeR> i mean time wise
 547 2010-12-29 07:27:09 <lfm> just got another one
 548 2010-12-29 07:28:56 <lfm> 99967 was at  07:09:43 utc, 99968 was at 7:25:26
 549 2010-12-29 07:42:59 RazielZ has joined
 550 2010-12-29 07:46:28 <da2ce7> I cannot wait till bitcoins are worth way more than dollars... then I will sell goods that the asking price in dollars is only the excise tax cost.
 551 2010-12-29 07:46:44 <da2ce7> but excise tax is inherently evil
 552 2010-12-29 07:47:25 <da2ce7> but there is no better wat to push tax down than to make it transperent,
 553 2010-12-29 07:56:25 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 556 2010-12-29 08:14:32 <BoBeR> i cant wait until 1 bitcoin will buy me a house
 557 2010-12-29 08:15:30 <ThomasV> lol
 558 2010-12-29 08:18:22 larsivi has joined
 559 2010-12-29 08:18:29 <ThomasV> with the current housing market, anything can happen :-)
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 578 2010-12-29 08:54:19 <Diablo-D3> ahh its nice to have full speed mining again
 579 2010-12-29 08:54:29 LobsterMan has joined
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 581 2010-12-29 08:54:29 LobsterMan has joined
 582 2010-12-29 08:55:57 <BoBeR> sleep time
 583 2010-12-29 09:03:45 <ThomasV> when I send bitcoins, is it possible to choose from which of my addresses it will be taken ?
 584 2010-12-29 09:06:49 <joe_8> no, but it is theoretically possible and should appear in a future version.
 585 2010-12-29 09:07:26 <ThomasV> so how does the client choose ?
 586 2010-12-29 09:07:44 Keefe has joined
 587 2010-12-29 09:08:29 <lfm> 25
 588 2010-12-29 09:15:43 acous has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 589 2010-12-29 09:30:12 Slix` has quit (Quit: { throw std::runtime_error("Client got bored of IRC."); })
 590 2010-12-29 09:34:54 <lfm> 22
 591 2010-12-29 09:36:07 <lfm> 21
 592 2010-12-29 09:41:31 <mrb__> ...2 1 0! happy new year^H^H^H^H 100000th block :-)
 593 2010-12-29 09:41:48 <lfm> still 21
 594 2010-12-29 09:41:49 <noot> yay
 595 2010-12-29 09:42:03 <mrb__> I know. You guys will celebrate while I am sleeping, bye!
 596 2010-12-29 09:42:14 <lfm> bye
 597 2010-12-29 09:42:54 <mrb__> I have my GPUs churning... hopefully I will be the one to generate it, heh
 598 2010-12-29 09:50:13 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 599 2010-12-29 09:51:23 sgornick has joined
 600 2010-12-29 09:56:42 <Keefe> i have about a 2% chance
 601 2010-12-29 10:10:27 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 60000
 602 2010-12-29 10:10:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 60000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 1 week, 5 days, 0 hours, and 16 seconds
 603 2010-12-29 10:10:37 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 600000
 604 2010-12-29 10:10:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 1 day, 4 hours, 48 minutes, and 1 second
 605 2010-12-29 10:10:46 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 500000
 606 2010-12-29 10:10:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 1 day, 10 hours, 33 minutes, and 38 seconds
 607 2010-12-29 10:10:49 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 550000
 608 2010-12-29 10:10:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 550000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 1 day, 7 hours, 25 minutes, and 7 seconds
 609 2010-12-29 10:11:31 <lfm> 19
 610 2010-12-29 10:12:06 <lfm> 18
 611 2010-12-29 10:13:25 <lfm> 17
 612 2010-12-29 10:13:38 <Diablo-D3> 16
 613 2010-12-29 10:13:57 <lfm> I dont see it yet
 614 2010-12-29 10:14:17 <Diablo-D3> what are we counting down?
 615 2010-12-29 10:14:26 <lfm> block numbers
 616 2010-12-29 10:14:33 <lfm> 16 now
 617 2010-12-29 10:15:18 <larsivi> exactly where can I download the gpu client?
 618 2010-12-29 10:15:28 <Diablo-D3> larsivi: there isnt one
 619 2010-12-29 10:15:33 <lfm> which one?
 620 2010-12-29 10:15:37 <Diablo-D3> you use the official client with external miners
 621 2010-12-29 10:15:46 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.0;all
 622 2010-12-29 10:15:48 <bitbot> Official DiabloMiner Thread
 623 2010-12-29 10:15:49 <Diablo-D3> like that one
 624 2010-12-29 10:16:14 <larsivi> ah, misunderstood - thanks :)
 625 2010-12-29 10:17:19 <lfm> 15
 626 2010-12-29 10:18:59 <lfm> 14
 627 2010-12-29 10:19:26 <ThomasV> miners should stop immediately, so that we can sunk 100000 with the new year's eve
 628 2010-12-29 10:19:33 <ThomasV> sorry, sync
 629 2010-12-29 10:19:37 * Diablo-D3 listens to Panty and Stockings with Garterbelt OST - 14 - Theme for Scanty & Kneesocks
 630 2010-12-29 10:19:41 slush has joined
 631 2010-12-29 10:20:03 <lfm> diablo-spam
 632 2010-12-29 10:26:20 <larsivi> Diablo-D3: using ubuntu, what would be my most likely source for opencl?
 633 2010-12-29 10:26:36 <lfm> nvidia or ati/amd
 634 2010-12-29 10:27:09 <Diablo-D3> larsivi: ubuntu packages the stuff for nvidia stuff (just install the right packages)
 635 2010-12-29 10:27:21 <Diablo-D3> for ati, grab the v2.1 of the stream sdk off ati's site
 636 2010-12-29 10:27:26 <larsivi> I have ATI (Hd 4870 or something)
 637 2010-12-29 10:27:26 <Diablo-D3> and follow the directions
 638 2010-12-29 10:28:45 <lfm> 13
 639 2010-12-29 10:32:55 <lfm> 12
 640 2010-12-29 10:38:27 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 641 2010-12-29 10:44:40 <lfm> 11
 642 2010-12-29 10:53:25 darrob has joined
 643 2010-12-29 10:54:14 <lfm> 10
 644 2010-12-29 10:55:02 <afed> do you use the proprietary drivers ubuntu offers to install or do you download ati's driver package along with the sdk?
 645 2010-12-29 10:55:11 <afed> also, 10.04 or 10.10?
 646 2010-12-29 10:55:42 <lfm> ubuntu 10.10 works for me
 647 2010-12-29 10:55:57 <afed> cool
 648 2010-12-29 10:56:00 <afed> and your drivers?
 649 2010-12-29 10:56:13 <lfm> I downloaded 10.12 ati drivers
 650 2010-12-29 10:56:21 <afed> i see
 651 2010-12-29 10:56:22 <afed> thanks
 652 2010-12-29 10:56:40 <afed> i'm designing a farm with nodes that netboot from a master and run miners
 653 2010-12-29 10:57:12 <afed> fewer disks, fewer points of failure and less energy used
 654 2010-12-29 10:57:17 <lfm> 9
 655 2010-12-29 10:57:32 <lfm> cool
 656 2010-12-29 10:59:29 <lfm> use m0mchil miner then. diablo's miner you need a monitor on it it seems
 657 2010-12-29 11:00:15 <afed> currently using m0mchil, very happy
 658 2010-12-29 11:00:25 <afed> another question, do you run a gui on your machine then?
 659 2010-12-29 11:00:39 <afed> is there a speed difference with X not running?
 660 2010-12-29 11:00:43 <lfm> ya you need to run xorg in any case
 661 2010-12-29 11:01:33 <afed> for what?
 662 2010-12-29 11:01:45 <lfm> to get the ati driver running
 663 2010-12-29 11:02:11 <afed> right but you could turn it off afterward right?
 664 2010-12-29 11:02:36 <lfm> xorg needs to be running but you dont need a monitor afaik
 665 2010-12-29 11:02:45 <afed> ok
 666 2010-12-29 11:03:03 <lfm> 8
 667 2010-12-29 11:07:12 mahound has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 668 2010-12-29 11:12:51 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 669 2010-12-29 11:25:57 darrob has joined
 670 2010-12-29 11:27:00 <larsivi> Diablo-D3: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException
 671 2010-12-29 11:27:00 <larsivi>         at com.diablominer.DiabloMiner.DiabloMiner.execute(DiabloMiner.java:190)
 672 2010-12-29 11:27:21 <Diablo-D3> using newest version?
 673 2010-12-29 11:27:39 <Diablo-D3> nope, you're not. theres nothing on 190.
 674 2010-12-29 11:27:52 <larsivi> Diablo-D3: the binary link at the top of the forum link you gave me
 675 2010-12-29 11:28:03 <Diablo-D3> hrrrm
 676 2010-12-29 11:28:16 <larsivi> I guess I can check it out from github though
 677 2010-12-29 11:28:22 <Diablo-D3> no, the binary is up to date
 678 2010-12-29 11:28:24 <Diablo-D3> but line 190 is
 679 2010-12-29 11:28:29 <Diablo-D3>       for (CLDevice device : devices) {
 680 2010-12-29 11:28:40 <Diablo-D3> the only way you could get that error is if you found no devices
 681 2010-12-29 11:29:01 <larsivi> no, you can get that if there is a list with null entries
 682 2010-12-29 11:29:01 <Diablo-D3> yet sommehow got a valid platform
 683 2010-12-29 11:29:12 <Diablo-D3> larsivi: ergo, no devices.
 684 2010-12-29 11:29:13 <larsivi> I think
 685 2010-12-29 11:29:30 <Diablo-D3> you're not supposed to be able to get a valid platform with no devices
 686 2010-12-29 11:29:45 <lfm> you mean valid entries after null entries? howd that happen?
 687 2010-12-29 11:30:06 <sipa> that error can only occur if 'devices' itself is null there
 688 2010-12-29 11:30:11 <Diablo-D3> exactly
 689 2010-12-29 11:30:15 <Diablo-D3> which devices cant be null
 690 2010-12-29 11:30:31 <Diablo-D3> larsivi: it sounds like you didnt follow the directions for the sdk
 691 2010-12-29 11:30:43 <Diablo-D3> larsivi: did you forget to unpack icd registration in /?
 692 2010-12-29 11:30:45 <larsivi> hmm
 693 2010-12-29 11:30:57 <lfm> and set all the env vars?
 694 2010-12-29 11:31:15 <Diablo-D3> lfm: no, if he didnt set the env it'd be a different error
 695 2010-12-29 11:31:33 <Diablo-D3> but now I get to add a new error checker
 696 2010-12-29 11:33:30 <larsivi> I've been trying this stuff - http://orwell.fiit.stuba.sk/~nou/
 697 2010-12-29 11:33:45 <larsivi> and had missed the sdk package, however it depends on a package that doesn't exist
 698 2010-12-29 11:33:50 <Diablo-D3> no, thats uselessly outdated
 699 2010-12-29 11:34:02 <Diablo-D3> use the sdk zip from ati's website, v2.1
 700 2010-12-29 11:34:10 <Diablo-D3> I said this already
 701 2010-12-29 11:34:28 tony_ has joined
 702 2010-12-29 11:34:31 <lfm> ya, and not the new ones, not 2.2, not 2.3, use 2.1
 703 2010-12-29 11:35:06 <larsivi> so you did, sorry (the listing above should in theory include 2.2 fwiw)
 704 2010-12-29 11:35:06 <Diablo-D3> lfm: at least I subverted the cpu usage bug on 2.2 and 2.3
 705 2010-12-29 11:35:18 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 706 2010-12-29 11:35:48 <lfm> you did? I must be behind a version or two
 707 2010-12-29 11:35:59 <Diablo-D3> its still slower, though
 708 2010-12-29 11:36:55 tony_ has quit (Client Quit)
 709 2010-12-29 11:38:50 <lfm> 6 (I missed 7)
 710 2010-12-29 11:40:32 <sipa> lfm: 7 only took 37 seconds
 711 2010-12-29 11:40:44 <sipa> *6
 712 2010-12-29 11:41:01 <sipa> *99994
 713 2010-12-29 11:41:03 <lfm> 5
 714 2010-12-29 11:41:25 <sipa> ok, who turned his cluster of 1000 5970's on?
 715 2010-12-29 11:41:59 <sipa> 99995 took 3 minutes...
 716 2010-12-29 11:42:16 kulhas has joined
 717 2010-12-29 11:42:35 <lfm> well prolly have some go for 45 mionutes now
 718 2010-12-29 11:42:36 <kulhas> hello
 719 2010-12-29 11:42:39 <lfm> hi
 720 2010-12-29 11:43:20 <kulhas> how do I know that my coin generation is working, its always 0 and calculator says that I need at least one year to make 50 coins lol
 721 2010-12-29 11:43:41 <Diablo-D3> sipa: its still random
 722 2010-12-29 11:44:00 <Diablo-D3> the pool of doom has hit back to backs before
 723 2010-12-29 11:44:05 <lfm> kulhas ya, its a cruel joke
 724 2010-12-29 11:44:39 <sipa> kulhas: http://mining.bitcoin.cz
 725 2010-12-29 11:44:48 <sipa> you'll at least get a few cents :)
 726 2010-12-29 11:45:40 <Diablo-D3> Ive made 22.85 on the pool thus far
 727 2010-12-29 11:46:32 <sipa> 31 here
 728 2010-12-29 11:46:46 <sipa> (including confirmed and unconfirmed rewards not yet payed out)
 729 2010-12-29 11:47:15 <Diablo-D3> this is just confirmed and in my wallet
 730 2010-12-29 11:47:28 <sipa> 28 in that case
 731 2010-12-29 11:47:54 <Diablo-D3> hrm, slush needs to fix his site
 732 2010-12-29 11:48:17 <Diablo-D3> it says .89 expected, 3.17 unconfirmed, 0.99 confirmed, and doesnt list what Ive gotten
 733 2010-12-29 11:48:42 <sipa> ?
 734 2010-12-29 11:50:15 <lfm> 4
 735 2010-12-29 11:51:18 <kulhas> what kind of calculation does bitcoin do? What problems it trys to solve ?
 736 2010-12-29 11:51:31 <rapacity> world hunger
 737 2010-12-29 11:51:43 <Diablo-D3> its curing aids and cancer too
 738 2010-12-29 11:52:08 <lfm> the problem is moving abstrace value symbols around the world reletivley quickly.
 739 2010-12-29 11:52:33 <lfm> abstract
 740 2010-12-29 11:52:34 <Diablo-D3> *abstract
 741 2010-12-29 11:52:59 <ThomasV> it escape taxes
 742 2010-12-29 11:53:10 <ThomasV> but not death
 743 2010-12-29 11:53:20 <lfm> byproduct and it may not be very good at avoiding taxes
 744 2010-12-29 11:54:03 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt bypass taxes
 745 2010-12-29 11:54:05 <lfm> 3
 746 2010-12-29 11:54:06 <sipa> 2
 747 2010-12-29 11:54:07 <lfm> 2
 748 2010-12-29 11:54:08 <Diablo-D3> you still have to pay them on transactions
 749 2010-12-29 11:54:14 <Diablo-D3> 2
 750 2010-12-29 11:54:28 <lfm> i didnt really see 3
 751 2010-12-29 11:54:33 <sipa> neither did i
 752 2010-12-29 11:55:11 <sipa> 19 seconds...
 753 2010-12-29 11:55:16 <mizerydearia> Would anyone like to ask some questions and test a site I am working on?
 754 2010-12-29 11:55:38 <lfm> questions? like? are you nuts?
 755 2010-12-29 11:55:51 <mizerydearia> Sure, that is acceptable question
 756 2010-12-29 11:55:56 <mizerydearia> The site is http://witcoin.com
 757 2010-12-29 11:56:03 <mizerydearia> Answers will be coming soon.
 758 2010-12-29 11:56:23 <ThomasV> rotfl
 759 2010-12-29 11:56:39 <ThomasV> wikipedia has the answers
 760 2010-12-29 11:58:37 <Diablo-D3> 1
 761 2010-12-29 11:59:07 <ThomasV> bitcoiners are holding their breath
 762 2010-12-29 12:00:29 <lfm> 0
 763 2010-12-29 12:00:33 <Diablo-D3> 0
 764 2010-12-29 12:00:33 <lfm> yay
 765 2010-12-29 12:00:33 <sipa> 0
 766 2010-12-29 12:00:40 <ThomasV> !!!!
 767 2010-12-29 12:00:47 <ThomasV> zaaro
 768 2010-12-29 12:00:52 theymos has joined
 769 2010-12-29 12:01:16 <lfm> theymos just in time for block 100000
 770 2010-12-29 12:01:34 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r4620a5b / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Happy 10,000th block, Bitcoin! - http://bit.ly/ecDimn
 771 2010-12-29 12:02:30 <lfm> wtf
 772 2010-12-29 12:02:50 <mizerydearia> oooh, a bug!
 773 2010-12-29 12:02:56 <mizerydearia> My previous question was lost! ^_^
 774 2010-12-29 12:03:03 <mizerydearia> overwritten
 775 2010-12-29 12:03:18 <sipa> lol
 776 2010-12-29 12:04:17 * Diablo-D3 fixes typo *cough*
 777 2010-12-29 12:05:04 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r808c0d5 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Happy 100,000th block, Bitcoin! - http://bit.ly/ied268
 778 2010-12-29 12:05:05 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r1173a2b / : Merge branch 'master' of github.com:Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner - http://bit.ly/eG82T2
 779 2010-12-29 12:06:56 <mizerydearia> ;bcs
 780 2010-12-29 12:06:57 <bitbot> mizerydearia: CurrentBlockCount( 100,000 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 14,484.1623612300 ) NextDifficultyAt( 100,800 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 800 blocks )
 781 2010-12-29 12:06:59 <mizerydearia> Woo
 782 2010-12-29 12:07:39 <theymos> Some stats: it took two years and 497 quadrillion hashes to produce 100,000 blocks. The average network hash rate was 7.9 billion hashes per second, with an average interval between blocks of 626 seconds. The hash target has decreased by 26 unvigintillion, losing 4 decimal digits. 5 million BTC has been generated, of which 51% has not been spent. 24,449,361 BTC has been transferred in 216,575 transactions, 292,362 inputs, 264,252 outputs, and 17
 783 2010-12-29 12:07:39 <theymos> 4,704 addresses.
 784 2010-12-29 12:08:23 <mizerydearia> 174,704 addresses
 785 2010-12-29 12:08:43 <theymos> And actually there's 100,001 blocks right now, since the genesis block is block 0.
 786 2010-12-29 12:09:04 <mizerydearia> 100,000 generated blocks
 787 2010-12-29 12:10:03 <ThomasV> no longer
 788 2010-12-29 12:10:08 <lfm> minus 1
 789 2010-12-29 12:10:23 <da2ce7> : :D :D : D: :D
 790 2010-12-29 12:10:27 <da2ce7> ;dance
 791 2010-12-29 12:10:29 <bitbot> :D\-<
 792 2010-12-29 12:10:30 <bitbot> :D|-<
 793 2010-12-29 12:10:31 <bitbot> :D/-<
 794 2010-12-29 12:12:54 <lfm> I think the genesis block actually needs to be genrated to doesnt it?
 795 2010-12-29 12:13:00 <theymos> Yes.
 796 2010-12-29 12:14:05 <lfm> Satoshi has a special program for that or something, not sure exactly
 797 2010-12-29 12:14:32 <theymos> I believe Bitcoin tries to do it if you remove the pre-generated one from the source.
 798 2010-12-29 12:15:15 <lfm> how do you put the newspaper quote in?
 799 2010-12-29 12:16:03 <lfm> or you leave the transaction zero in and it generates the blcok then?
 800 2010-12-29 12:16:04 <theymos> Modify pszTimestamp.
 801 2010-12-29 12:16:40 <theymos> "Stock" Bitcoin will always include the quote unless you go out of your way to change pszTimestamp. The testnet has it as well, for example.
 802 2010-12-29 12:17:06 <lfm> cool, now when I have need of a private special currency I'l have some clue how to start it, thansk
 803 2010-12-29 12:18:32 <lfm> ok, enuf excitement for me, I gotta crash, bye all
 804 2010-12-29 12:18:52 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
 805 2010-12-29 12:22:22 mtgox has joined
 806 2010-12-29 12:26:36 <theymos> In about 10 minutes I will disable HTTPS access to blockexplorer.com. This will last 3-6 days. Update tools to use HTTP for that time.
 807 2010-12-29 12:27:20 <ThomasV> hi mtgox. when will it be possible to use EUR transfers at your site ?
 808 2010-12-29 12:31:11 <theymos> My server managed to stay up for 128 days. :)
 809 2010-12-29 12:34:42 <mtgox> ThomasV: I think in a couple hours
 810 2010-12-29 12:34:57 <ThomasV> nice
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 815 2010-12-29 13:09:50 anarchyx has quit (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
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 819 2010-12-29 13:41:05 <mtgox> ThomasV: we can accept Euro bank transfers now. email me for details: info@mtgox.com
 820 2010-12-29 13:45:07 <ThomasV> mtgox: great ; does it work with iban/bic or with wire transfer ?
 821 2010-12-29 13:51:25 <mtgox> either
 822 2010-12-29 13:54:05 slush has joined
 823 2010-12-29 13:56:50 <Keefe> mtgox: nice! i look forward to more buyers at mt gox
 824 2010-12-29 13:59:59 RichardG has quit (Quit: E:Lined)
 825 2010-12-29 14:02:26 TD has joined
 826 2010-12-29 14:07:37 <ThomasV> mtgox: user bitcoinjones will be our guinea pig, and he'll report back to us europeans :-)
 827 2010-12-29 14:08:26 <BoBeR> mr anderson
 828 2010-12-29 14:09:02 RichardG has joined
 829 2010-12-29 14:33:44 <EvanR-work> i know kung fu
 830 2010-12-29 14:34:08 <BoBeR> how can you kung fu with no hands
 831 2010-12-29 14:35:20 <EvanR-work> lol
 832 2010-12-29 14:36:00 <EvanR-work> mtgox: if i were to add USD to my account by going to chase bank, how do you know which account to credit
 833 2010-12-29 14:38:02 bitanarchy has joined
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 835 2010-12-29 14:38:02 bitanarchy has joined
 836 2010-12-29 14:40:43 <bitanarchy> Would it be a good idea to have conditional transactions? The condition could then be a prediction. Nodes would then verify these transactions for validity based on the outcome of the prediction.
 837 2010-12-29 14:41:19 remmy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 838 2010-12-29 14:44:04 <mizerydearia> http://witcoin.com/ - Questions are now answerable.  Keywords coming soon!
 839 2010-12-29 14:47:05 <BoBeR> why should i pay to answer
 840 2010-12-29 14:47:07 <BoBeR> and pay to ask
 841 2010-12-29 14:47:22 <BoBeR> how do i answer
 842 2010-12-29 14:47:27 <BoBeR> also it should be like this
 843 2010-12-29 14:47:37 <BoBeR> person pays to ask
 844 2010-12-29 14:47:42 <BoBeR> bounty is set
 845 2010-12-29 14:47:48 <BoBeR> the ppl are payed to answer
 846 2010-12-29 14:47:53 <BoBeR> you take 1% for hosting
 847 2010-12-29 14:48:08 kulhas has left ()
 848 2010-12-29 14:48:29 <TD> bitanarchy: how would you script that?
 849 2010-12-29 14:48:42 <ThomasV> when ppl pay to provide answers, it's called advertising
 850 2010-12-29 14:49:21 <bitanarchy> TD: A prediction would just be a line of text. People running the nodes must interpret the line and determine whether it is true or not.
 851 2010-12-29 14:50:00 <TD> bitanarchy: could you give a more concrete example?
 852 2010-12-29 14:53:06 <bitanarchy> Prediction: "Bitcoin block number 100 000 is generated on 29/12/2010" If nodes think this will happen then they will include the transaction, so that they can collect the corresponding fee. If the prediction fails than all coins remain with the originator.
 853 2010-12-29 14:53:53 <ThomasV> that should be called "betcoin"
 854 2010-12-29 14:54:28 <BoBeR> and thats stupid
 855 2010-12-29 14:54:41 <BoBeR> i mean why bid on block creation
 856 2010-12-29 14:54:51 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2516
 857 2010-12-29 14:54:52 <BoBeR> plus you missed block 100 000
 858 2010-12-29 14:54:52 <bitbot> Witcoin
 859 2010-12-29 14:55:15 <bitanarchy> BoBeR: it is just an example. Prediction: BoBeR will die on 30/12/2012 :-)
 860 2010-12-29 14:55:17 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 861 2010-12-29 14:55:48 <BoBeR> i think bober will die on 21/12/2012
 862 2010-12-29 14:55:57 <BoBeR> assassination market anyone
 863 2010-12-29 14:56:59 <bitanarchy> Prediction markets can be very usefull.
 864 2010-12-29 14:57:30 <bitanarchy> Especially when people bet on government policy.
 865 2010-12-29 14:58:31 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, Pay to answer as a kind of proof that you are human.  The required amount is anything above 0btc.
 866 2010-12-29 14:58:55 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, People will be paid for their answers... eventually.
 867 2010-12-29 14:59:20 <bitanarchy> Since prediction markets will quickly be regulated by government, I suppose it would be a good idea to implement it P2P. Maybe embed it into bitcoin, just like bitDNS?
 868 2010-12-29 14:59:35 <mizerydearia> The site is designed in a way that asking and answering questions is anonymous and there is no user account system.
 869 2010-12-29 15:00:21 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 870 2010-12-29 15:00:33 <mtgox> EvanR-work: you have to tell me you are doing it and I'll look for the transaction in my account
 871 2010-12-29 15:00:41 <mizerydearia> Additionally all questions and answers are public as soon as they are posted.
 872 2010-12-29 15:01:10 <mizerydearia> I would like to provide an implementation in which answerers are rewarded for their answers.
 873 2010-12-29 15:01:22 <mizerydearia> However, I am not sure I can do so in a way that is required.
 874 2010-12-29 15:01:36 <TD> bitanarchy: i think satoshi is interested in generalizing bitcoin in such a way that people can take part in the networks they feel comfortable with
 875 2010-12-29 15:01:41 <BoBeR> recaptcha then
 876 2010-12-29 15:01:46 <BoBeR> i really hate pay to do something
 877 2010-12-29 15:01:50 <TD> bitanarchy: there's the obvious problem of how to encode predictions and how nodes decide whether to include them or not
 878 2010-12-29 15:02:01 <mizerydearia> hmm
 879 2010-12-29 15:02:14 <mizerydearia> Well...
 880 2010-12-29 15:02:19 <mizerydearia> What I can do then, is...
 881 2010-12-29 15:02:53 <bitanarchy> TD: I can imagine that people are not comfortable with having either DNS or a prediction market encoded into bitcoin... so maybe a second blockchain must be implemented for that.
 882 2010-12-29 15:03:18 <mizerydearia> Add a checkmark box for the question and answer forms, and if it is enabled, the bitcoin amount you submit will be returned to you, however, it will also reduce the ranking of your question and answer to have 0 value, lower than others who do not check it (in which the value will be whatever amount they sent to submit their question/answer).
 883 2010-12-29 15:03:28 <TD> bitanarchy: right
 884 2010-12-29 15:03:51 <mizerydearia> Which will then make your question appear after those with higher value.
 885 2010-12-29 15:04:04 <mizerydearia> However, then it shall be usable by those who don't want to pay ^_^
 886 2010-12-29 15:04:25 <mizerydearia> However, you must pay at first and get payment returned immediately afterwards.
 887 2010-12-29 15:04:26 <bitanarchy> TD: But I would like to know if the concept of conditional transactions would be enough to start up a prediction market?
 888 2010-12-29 15:04:41 <mizerydearia> working on it now..
 889 2010-12-29 15:04:45 <TD> i think you need to plan out your idea in more detail, maybe code up a prototype
 890 2010-12-29 15:08:32 <bitanarchy> Isn't kiba working on bitDNS and bitPredict? Did he consider this approach?
 891 2010-12-29 15:14:21 <TD> hmm. it seems the testnet stopped generating new blocks completely
 892 2010-12-29 15:17:43 <BoBeR> ;;say
 893 2010-12-29 15:17:44 <gribble> (say <channel|nick> <text>) -- Sends <text> to <channel|nick>. Can only send to <nick> if supybot.plugins.Anonymous.allowPrivateTarget is True.
 894 2010-12-29 15:18:07 <BoBeR> ;;say /part
 895 2010-12-29 15:18:07 <gribble> Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
 896 2010-12-29 15:18:14 <BoBeR> ;;say oeuoeu
 897 2010-12-29 15:18:15 <gribble> (say <channel|nick> <text>) -- Sends <text> to <channel|nick>. Can only send to <nick> if supybot.plugins.Anonymous.allowPrivateTarget is True.
 898 2010-12-29 15:18:41 <BoBeR> ;;say #bitcoin-dev oeuoeu
 899 2010-12-29 15:18:41 <gribble> Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
 900 2010-12-29 15:18:44 <BoBeR> gay
 901 2010-12-29 15:22:32 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 902 2010-12-29 15:22:52 RichardG has quit (Quit: Kernel panic - not syncing: attempted to kill init!)
 903 2010-12-29 15:29:55 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, I implemented return payments for asking a question.  Would you liek to test it? ^_^
 904 2010-12-29 15:30:01 <mizerydearia> Working on it for answers now.
 905 2010-12-29 15:30:10 <BoBeR> yes
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 911 2010-12-29 15:45:00 <mizerydearia> Humm, I sent 0.01btc to an address generated by another Bitcoin client, and I confirmed the address is correct.  However, `getreceivedbyaddress [address] 0` doesn't show any amount yet.  Previously 0 confirmations appeared instantly.  I will wait until 1 confirmation and see if it is detected... Otherwise, is this an occasional occurrence?
 912 2010-12-29 15:45:52 <mizerydearia> ooh, nevermind.  bug in mah script =/
 913 2010-12-29 15:49:49 <BoBeR> so um what do i does
 914 2010-12-29 15:52:25 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, You may ask a question.
 915 2010-12-29 15:52:39 <BoBeR> why ask
 916 2010-12-29 15:52:43 <BoBeR> i dont understand
 917 2010-12-29 15:52:49 <BoBeR> would i not want to answer
 918 2010-12-29 15:53:04 <mizerydearia> Well, you may answer also, but I am still working on adding return for answers also.
 919 2010-12-29 15:53:13 <mizerydearia> As of right now bitcoins are returned only for creating new questions.
 920 2010-12-29 15:56:22 <BoBeR> is it 100% return?
 921 2010-12-29 15:56:41 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, returns now work for answers too.
 922 2010-12-29 15:56:50 <mizerydearia> Yep, if you enable the checkbox, the funds will be returned.
 923 2010-12-29 15:57:10 xorrbit has joined
 924 2010-12-29 15:57:16 <mizerydearia> If you do not enable it, they will not be returned.  Also, do note, however, that by enabling the checkbox you are also setting the value of the question to 0.
 925 2010-12-29 15:57:30 <mizerydearia> Whereas if you do not enable it and send 0.01btc, then the value of the question/answer will be 0.01
 926 2010-12-29 15:57:42 <mizerydearia> And also if you send 50.2btc, then the value will be 50.2
 927 2010-12-29 15:58:41 <mizerydearia> Eventually, questions and answers will appear in descending value.  Those with higher value appearing first.
 928 2010-12-29 15:58:50 <BoBeR> http://pastebin.com/5CUzaUjQ
 929 2010-12-29 15:58:53 <BoBeR> error
 930 2010-12-29 15:59:02 <mizerydearia> oh?
 931 2010-12-29 15:59:11 <mizerydearia> ooh, thanks
 932 2010-12-29 15:59:20 <BoBeR> fix it NOA
 933 2010-12-29 15:59:55 _bstin has joined
 934 2010-12-29 16:00:40 <mizerydearia> hmm, that's odd
 935 2010-12-29 16:00:42 <BoBeR> questions are out of order
 936 2010-12-29 16:00:52 <EvanR-work> YOU are out of order!
 937 2010-12-29 16:00:55 <BoBeR> also seems like you still have my money
 938 2010-12-29 16:01:03 <BoBeR> there is no order in this chatroom
 939 2010-12-29 16:01:11 <BoBeR> anarchy is the only order
 940 2010-12-29 16:02:25 <BoBeR> so when do i get my money back?
 941 2010-12-29 16:04:32 xelister has joined
 942 2010-12-29 16:05:46 sgtstein has joined
 943 2010-12-29 16:05:48 <johndrinkwater> you sent money to localhost on a remote server?
 944 2010-12-29 16:07:28 <BoBeR> why not
 945 2010-12-29 16:08:26 <johndrinkwater> because that server is unlikely to claim it; someone else will
 946 2010-12-29 16:08:59 sgtstein has left ()
 947 2010-12-29 16:12:30 <BoBeR> i see
 948 2010-12-29 16:12:37 <BoBeR> so when do i get my money back
 949 2010-12-29 16:13:36 <EvanR-work> your bitcoin balance is ensured up to zero point zero coins by the FDIC
 950 2010-12-29 16:13:43 <EvanR-work> insured*
 951 2010-12-29 16:15:55 <Kiba> Full Reserve Banking: Don't Need the FDIC
 952 2010-12-29 16:16:37 <mizerydearia> BoBeR, Fixed order bug.
 953 2010-12-29 16:16:49 <mizerydearia> Looking into money issue.
 954 2010-12-29 16:16:49 <BoBeR> so do i get my old money back
 955 2010-12-29 16:16:56 <BoBeR> 12 bitcoins i think
 956 2010-12-29 16:16:59 <mizerydearia> O_O
 957 2010-12-29 16:17:01 <BoBeR> i just mashed the buttons
 958 2010-12-29 16:17:09 <BoBeR> i assumed it would work
 959 2010-12-29 16:17:15 ThomasV has joined
 960 2010-12-29 16:17:17 <mizerydearia> oooh, you did send 12btc
 961 2010-12-29 16:19:53 paul0 has joined
 962 2010-12-29 16:25:40 <BoBeR> paul is a dead man
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 967 2010-12-29 16:59:35 <EvanR-work> ron paul
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 972 2010-12-29 17:21:08 <fabianhjr> Hi, sup?
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 974 2010-12-29 17:32:22 prusnak has joined
 975 2010-12-29 17:32:26 <prusnak> hi all
 976 2010-12-29 17:32:35 <prusnak> is any developer at 27c3?
 977 2010-12-29 17:38:37 marioxcc has joined
 978 2010-12-29 17:39:02 <marioxcc> hello
 979 2010-12-29 17:41:38 davout has joined
 980 2010-12-29 17:42:42 <BoBeR> mtgox
 981 2010-12-29 17:43:42 <marioxcc> I noticed a possible flaw in the current slush model
 982 2010-12-29 17:44:46 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: tell us. ;)
 983 2010-12-29 17:48:05 * marioxcc is back
 984 2010-12-29 17:48:06 <marioxcc> sorry
 985 2010-12-29 17:48:12 <marioxcc> i was about to say:
 986 2010-12-29 17:48:41 <marioxcc> a user could make a client
 987 2010-12-29 17:48:53 <marioxcc> that only sends those PoW than awards him a share
 988 2010-12-29 17:49:02 <marioxcc> but don't send those who really are a new block
 989 2010-12-29 17:49:13 <marioxcc> that would be a small loss for the user
 990 2010-12-29 17:49:28 <marioxcc> but a bigger loss for the network as a whole, i think
 991 2010-12-29 17:49:29 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: yeah. That is possible. lol
 992 2010-12-29 17:50:04 <marioxcc> so this problem is not currently adressed?
 993 2010-12-29 17:50:06 <slush> marioxcc: that would be small loss for the users, until this worker has only small part of pool
 994 2010-12-29 17:50:13 <slush> marioxcc: it is well known problem
 995 2010-12-29 17:50:30 <slush> but it is not real 'problem'. sabotage is possible, but it is bigger loss for sabteur than for other users
 996 2010-12-29 17:50:49 <marioxcc> slush: the "loss" for the sabteur is minimum
 997 2010-12-29 17:50:49 <slush> marioxcc: because if you find a block and don't tell others, you have also loss
 998 2010-12-29 17:51:08 <marioxcc> of course
 999 2010-12-29 17:51:12 <slush> marioxcc: the same as for others
1000 2010-12-29 17:51:22 <slush> until you don't have significant power in pool
1001 2010-12-29 17:51:27 <marioxcc> but suppose I dislike the network
1002 2010-12-29 17:51:30 <slush> and I'm doing stats that big players are not cheating
1003 2010-12-29 17:51:35 <marioxcc> then I could publish a client which does that
1004 2010-12-29 17:51:46 <marioxcc> the probability of a share being a complete PoW and valid work is minimum
1005 2010-12-29 17:51:56 <marioxcc> so there is a minimum loss in not sending them
1006 2010-12-29 17:52:05 <marioxcc> I then get to harm the network
1007 2010-12-29 17:52:11 <marioxcc> and get almost the same reward
1008 2010-12-29 17:52:24 <marioxcc> i think it's a real problem, for instance, you don't know if someone is doing this alredy
1009 2010-12-29 17:52:36 skeledrew has joined
1010 2010-12-29 17:52:52 <marioxcc> if so, you would be paying him with 0% probability to get a block ever form such client
1011 2010-12-29 17:53:14 <slush> marioxcc: if  you are poor worker, probability that you find a block is minimal. And when you are strong player, it can be easily detected AND it is big loss for you (because you have significant reward from every block and you miss them, because you don't submit them to pool)
1012 2010-12-29 17:53:25 <nanotube> marioxcc: it is hard to prevent attacks where the attacker also loses. (see, suicide bombers)
1013 2010-12-29 17:53:56 <nanotube> thankfully, most people don't attack where they get no benifit and only a cost.
1014 2010-12-29 17:54:25 <slush> say, I can do this sabotage with 5970 pretty well, because I find a block almost every day; yes, I can hurt pool in this way. But I miss ~6 btc from every sabotage.
1015 2010-12-29 17:54:41 <nanotube> prusnak: there were several
1016 2010-12-29 17:55:10 <marioxcc> slush: my point is that your loss is not SO great
1017 2010-12-29 17:55:15 <marioxcc> of course, most people won't
1018 2010-12-29 17:55:22 <marioxcc> but if there is a group againsting you or the pool
1019 2010-12-29 17:55:25 <marioxcc> they will use this system
1020 2010-12-29 17:55:28 <marioxcc> made profit
1021 2010-12-29 17:55:35 <marioxcc> and harm the system
1022 2010-12-29 17:55:56 <slush> marioxcc: this was intensively discussed here before and I'm pretty sure that a) there is only few people who can do it b) they don't have a motivation, because they bought GPUS to make a money, not to disable others to make a money c) I can detect them pretty easy
1023 2010-12-29 17:56:06 <EvanR-work> if you control more than 50% of the network you can consistently steal money
1024 2010-12-29 17:56:26 <marioxcc> EvanR-work: I don't mean the whole bitcoin network
1025 2010-12-29 17:56:28 <marioxcc> only the pool
1026 2010-12-29 17:56:45 <EvanR-work> how do you harm the pool?
1027 2010-12-29 17:56:50 <slush> marioxcc: they make a profit, but much less when they steal their own blocks.
1028 2010-12-29 17:57:27 <marioxcc> well, i think it's a real possibility
1029 2010-12-29 17:57:36 <marioxcc> usually when atacking you get nothing
1030 2010-12-29 17:57:40 <marioxcc> but only to harm the victim
1031 2010-12-29 17:57:43 <marioxcc> with this atack, however
1032 2010-12-29 17:57:46 <slush> marioxcc: of course it is _possible_
1033 2010-12-29 17:57:47 <marioxcc> you will get a small profit
1034 2010-12-29 17:57:52 <slush> I don't doubt it.
1035 2010-12-29 17:57:54 <nanotube> marioxcc: no, your net profit is negative
1036 2010-12-29 17:58:18 <slush> marioxcc: but you make bigger loss for yourself.
1037 2010-12-29 17:58:26 <marioxcc> slush: there is no loss for myself
1038 2010-12-29 17:58:32 <nanotube> if i spend $10 to get $2, my $2 is not profit, instead it is rather $8 loss.
1039 2010-12-29 17:58:35 <slush> marioxcc: yes, there is loss for you
1040 2010-12-29 17:58:43 <nanotube> ;;wp opportunity cost
1041 2010-12-29 17:58:43 <gribble> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost | Opportunity cost is the cost related to the next-best choice available to someone who has picked among several mutually exclusive choices. ...
1042 2010-12-29 17:58:57 <marioxcc> in this case, we say i alredy want to harm the system
1043 2010-12-29 17:59:04 <marioxcc> then I expect to loss $$$
1044 2010-12-29 17:59:07 <slush> marioxcc: you are crunching hashes, but refuse reward from them
1045 2010-12-29 17:59:09 <marioxcc> but with this method I only loss $$
1046 2010-12-29 17:59:33 <marioxcc> a for-profit user won't do, for sure
1047 2010-12-29 17:59:39 <marioxcc> but someone who alredy dislikes the network
1048 2010-12-29 17:59:45 <slush> marioxcc: you? :)
1049 2010-12-29 17:59:52 <marioxcc> no
1050 2010-12-29 17:59:58 <marioxcc> if so, i wouldn't be telling you
1051 2010-12-29 18:00:01 <marioxcc> lol
1052 2010-12-29 18:00:18 <slush> marioxcc: that's reason why I want many workers on pool; when nobody will handle large portion of pool, nobody can effective sabotage it this way
1053 2010-12-29 18:00:28 <nanotube> marioxcc: you have to (a) pay for hardware, (b) pay for electricity, and (c) give up reward you would otherwise get... it is all in all a pretty costly proposition, for not much gain.
1054 2010-12-29 18:00:46 <marioxcc> nanotube: you didn't got my point
1055 2010-12-29 18:01:03 <marioxcc> slush: well, anyway
1056 2010-12-29 18:01:08 <slush> marioxcc: say you have to pay everything what nanotube said AND you cut your reward by not submitting hashes
1057 2010-12-29 18:01:10 <BoBeR> hey
1058 2010-12-29 18:01:11 <BoBeR> hows it going
1059 2010-12-29 18:01:21 <slush> marioxcc: I agree it is _possibility_
1060 2010-12-29 18:01:23 <nanotube> no, i get your point (i think), that it is /possible/, if someone is motivated enough, to do it...
1061 2010-12-29 18:01:35 <slush> right
1062 2010-12-29 18:01:40 <nanotube> hey BoBeR got my btc?
1063 2010-12-29 18:01:45 <BoBeR> yes
1064 2010-12-29 18:01:52 <nanotube> cool. :)
1065 2010-12-29 18:02:45 <fabianhjr> BoBeR: what ya doing now?
1066 2010-12-29 18:02:48 <marioxcc> well, do you have any idea of an approach on the issue other to relying on the minority insignificance?
1067 2010-12-29 18:03:24 <nanotube> marioxcc: probably slush can block peers after they get into >95% probability of withholding good blocks, statistically.
1068 2010-12-29 18:03:44 <nanotube> fabianhjr: BoBeR found some rare file for me. good service. ;)
1069 2010-12-29 18:03:52 edcba_ has joined
1070 2010-12-29 18:03:55 <slush> nanotube: those stats are in my new statistical pack
1071 2010-12-29 18:03:58 <marioxcc> nanotube: they get a new ID and IP if need
1072 2010-12-29 18:04:14 larsivi has joined
1073 2010-12-29 18:04:17 <fabianhjr> No, I am asking him what he is doing _now_ xD
1074 2010-12-29 18:04:47 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1075 2010-12-29 18:04:47 <nanotube> fabianhjr: heh
1076 2010-12-29 18:05:15 <fabianhjr> nanotube: what makes a file rare?
1077 2010-12-29 18:05:46 <nanotube> marioxcc: well, how do you block a spammer? they get a new email address and ip if needed. how do you block an irc flooder? they get a new ip, etc. there's no solution. only in this case the spamming is costly, so economic self-interest takes care of itself. :)
1078 2010-12-29 18:06:17 <nanotube> fabianhjr: that i couldn't find it myself with a cursory search of the web. :) so it made sense for me to pay BoBeR to help me out.
1079 2010-12-29 18:06:21 <bitanarchy> Why does btcex not support euro and dollar? Wouldn't it be convenient to have multiple open bitcoin exchanges besides mtgox... Just to keep every exchange in check and avoid fractional reserve banking etc..
1080 2010-12-29 18:06:42 TheAncientGoat has joined
1081 2010-12-29 18:07:32 <fabianhjr> nanotube: a multiplayr crack for a game such as BF:BC2? xD
1082 2010-12-29 18:07:56 <nanotube> no, an old movie
1083 2010-12-29 18:08:36 <TheAncientGoat> Heh, internet crashed
1084 2010-12-29 18:09:03 <nanotube> the whole thing? :)
1085 2010-12-29 18:09:22 <TheAncientGoat> Anything interesting happen bitcoin wise the past 2 weeks?
1086 2010-12-29 18:09:33 <TheAncientGoat> nanotube: The tubes got knotted :(
1087 2010-12-29 18:09:41 <nanotube> heh
1088 2010-12-29 18:09:44 <TheAncientGoat> No, the dump truck driver was drunk
1089 2010-12-29 18:09:58 <nanotube> well, some upward price movement in the past few days
1090 2010-12-29 18:10:32 <fabianhjr> TheAncientGoat: BTC is at 0.3 USD currently.
1091 2010-12-29 18:10:44 <fabianhjr> It is getting way up. :)
1092 2010-12-29 18:10:51 <TheAncientGoat> Ooo, that's cool
1093 2010-12-29 18:11:04 <bitanarchy> Goat: This video appeared http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwngKUVU85g
1094 2010-12-29 18:11:08 <TheAncientGoat> I was worred when it went down sub 0.2
1095 2010-12-29 18:11:08 <EvanR-work> TheAncientGoat: if you have coins, yes
1096 2010-12-29 18:11:27 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: btw, switching my accelmethod to xaa solved the slow-scroll problem for me. interesting...
1097 2010-12-29 18:11:28 <TheAncientGoat> EvanR-work: I threw a lot of my lottery away :(
1098 2010-12-29 18:11:31 <BoBeR> any one need any rare files
1099 2010-12-29 18:11:34 <BoBeR> or something found
1100 2010-12-29 18:11:37 <BoBeR> information
1101 2010-12-29 18:11:38 <BoBeR> dox
1102 2010-12-29 18:11:55 <EvanR-work> BoBeR: i need tens of thousands of US diplomatic cables, any idea where to get those?
1103 2010-12-29 18:12:06 <nanotube> EvanR-work: haha
1104 2010-12-29 18:12:21 <BoBeR> yos
1105 2010-12-29 18:12:25 <BoBeR> infact i got a copy
1106 2010-12-29 18:12:34 slush has quit (Changing host)
1107 2010-12-29 18:12:34 slush has joined
1108 2010-12-29 18:14:49 alfakini_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1109 2010-12-29 18:16:31 <mrb__> I solved block 99993. so close!
1110 2010-12-29 18:17:01 altamic has joined
1111 2010-12-29 18:18:15 <prusnak> nanotube: any idea how to contact them? we'd like to have a chat with 'em
1112 2010-12-29 18:19:15 <nanotube> oh, you mean actual bitcoin devs... no i dunno. i know a few bitcoin /users/ have mentioned it.
1113 2010-12-29 18:20:13 <prusnak> ah :)
1114 2010-12-29 18:20:39 <prusnak> yes, actual developers who know the system very well and their knowledge is deep
1115 2010-12-29 18:23:24 <nanotube> not aware if any are there... i can only suggest sending email, and hoping to set up a live chat? see bitcoin.org/contact
1116 2010-12-29 18:23:42 <prusnak> thx
1117 2010-12-29 18:24:14 <tcatm> Huh? I made it to the official developer page? :)
1118 2010-12-29 18:24:41 <mizerydearia> quick, hide!
1119 2010-12-29 18:25:01 <prusnak> tcatm: you are not at 27c3, are you  ?
1120 2010-12-29 18:25:58 <tcatm> prusnak: no
1121 2010-12-29 18:28:14 <BoBeR> mtgox here
1122 2010-12-29 18:28:24 RichardG has joined
1123 2010-12-29 18:28:25 RichardG has left ()
1124 2010-12-29 18:29:12 <prusnak> mtgox: ping, are you at 27c3?
1125 2010-12-29 18:30:58 alfakini_ has joined
1126 2010-12-29 18:31:38 <TD> prusnak: i know the system somewhat well by now
1127 2010-12-29 18:31:50 <nanotube> prusnak: i know T_X is there... also qube<somethingorother>. but dunno how well versed in the internals they are.
1128 2010-12-29 18:31:52 <TD> prusnak: i am not a "bitcoin developer" but i am working on an implementation of parts of the client in java
1129 2010-12-29 18:31:56 <TD> for an android client
1130 2010-12-29 18:32:10 <TD> and i've talked to satoshi a few times. otherwise i have no special insight
1131 2010-12-29 18:32:53 <marioxcc> so there isn't any systematic idea to address the problem I have explained in the current pool/slush approach?
1132 2010-12-29 18:33:01 alfakini_ has quit (Client Quit)
1133 2010-12-29 18:33:16 <prusnak> we are interested in generul stuff, to sand decide if to support it or not :)
1134 2010-12-29 18:33:29 <sipa> marioxcc: what is your question?
1135 2010-12-29 18:33:31 <TD> i don't know who you are but i'm happy to answer questions as best i can
1136 2010-12-29 18:33:34 <sipa> sorry, too lazy to scroll up
1137 2010-12-29 18:33:35 <prusnak> s/to sand/to see and/
1138 2010-12-29 18:33:37 <TD> prusnak: your best bet is just to ask
1139 2010-12-29 18:33:48 <TD> you know, the usual drill ....
1140 2010-12-29 18:33:59 <marioxcc> sipa: well, the discussion is above
1141 2010-12-29 18:34:06 <marioxcc> it was started with "I noticed a possible flaw in the current slush model".
1142 2010-12-29 18:34:30 <sipa> i see something about people witholding good blocks?
1143 2010-12-29 18:34:31 <nanotube> prusnak: check out the site, faq, wiki... there's a lot of doc... then ask questions for anything that's unclear.
1144 2010-12-29 18:34:31 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1145 2010-12-29 18:34:52 <prusnak> most of it is clear
1146 2010-12-29 18:34:58 <nanotube> sipa: yea, people withholding good blocks just to spite the pool (and themselves)
1147 2010-12-29 18:35:04 <sipa> they could
1148 2010-12-29 18:35:12 <sipa> it wouldn't benefit anyone
1149 2010-12-29 18:35:21 <sipa> but yes, it's definitely possible
1150 2010-12-29 18:36:01 <marioxcc> that's what I'm asking
1151 2010-12-29 18:36:13 <sipa> however, i think it's statistically detectable if slush would want to
1152 2010-12-29 18:36:19 <marioxcc> some idea to stop them (other than relying of none doing so)?
1153 2010-12-29 18:36:40 <sipa> he could create very detailed statistics about the blocks that are submitted
1154 2010-12-29 18:36:49 <slush> sipa: true, I have those stats ready
1155 2010-12-29 18:37:15 <slush> sipa: well, coded on my dev, will go online after upgrade
1156 2010-12-29 18:37:20 <marioxcc> I would like to make my proposed decentralized pool miner resistant to these atacks
1157 2010-12-29 18:37:29 <TD> prusnak: which parts are unclear?
1158 2010-12-29 18:38:01 xelister has joined
1159 2010-12-29 18:38:14 <sipa> slush: if you look at the seconds 32-bit word of the submitted hashes, these should be distributed uniformly
1160 2010-12-29 18:38:18 <sipa> *second
1161 2010-12-29 18:38:29 <slush> sipa: exactly
1162 2010-12-29 18:38:44 <ArtForz> I doubt it's possible to protect against this "attack"
1163 2010-12-29 18:38:57 <sipa> it would take a long time, and definitely longer than the average time between expected blocks from this client
1164 2010-12-29 18:39:12 <ArtForz> well, not without relying on statistical analysis of diff=1 solutions versus diff=real_target solutions
1165 2010-12-29 18:39:21 <sipa> indeed, ArtForz
1166 2010-12-29 18:39:24 <prusnak> TD: well, we are not 100% sure we want to support it
1167 2010-12-29 18:39:29 <sipa> you can't do it with 100% certainty
1168 2010-12-29 18:39:38 <ArtForz> yep
1169 2010-12-29 18:39:44 <TD> that doesn't sound like something unclear about bitcoin. it sounds like something unclear about your goals
1170 2010-12-29 18:40:09 <prusnak> yes, probably
1171 2010-12-29 18:40:12 <nanotube> prusnak: ArtForz here is quite knowledgeable about bitcoin internals as well.
1172 2010-12-29 18:40:14 <ArtForz> aka "either you're really unlucky or dropping diff > X solutions, banned"
1173 2010-12-29 18:40:23 <prusnak> and we want to find out if our goal is to support bitcoin or not :)
1174 2010-12-29 18:40:34 <marioxcc> we know banned atackers will just register again a get a new IP if need
1175 2010-12-29 18:40:45 <EvanR-work> the goal of not supporting bitcoin is fairly easily accomplished
1176 2010-12-29 18:40:55 <nanotube> ArtForz: exactly what i said earlier, can only do via statistical analysis.
1177 2010-12-29 18:40:56 <EvanR-work> for now ;)
1178 2010-12-29 18:40:57 <slush> marioxcc: How can you solve this issue in your propsal?
1179 2010-12-29 18:40:57 <ArtForz> statistical analysis of diff < X solutions usbmitted wont help if the attackr is only dropping results that would lead to a valid block
1180 2010-12-29 18:41:11 <marioxcc> slush: that's what i'm asking for
1181 2010-12-29 18:41:14 <marioxcc> how to solve it?
1182 2010-12-29 18:41:39 <ArtForz> again, I doubt it's possible to 100% protect against this with a share-based pool
1183 2010-12-29 18:41:44 <TD> prusnak: the only thing to ponder is what the downside is
1184 2010-12-29 18:42:14 <marioxcc> do the puddinpop approach have this flaw?
1185 2010-12-29 18:42:21 <nanotube> prusnak: well, you must have some specific questions/doubts in mind that need resolution... we can't help you define your goals, but answer your questions. :)
1186 2010-12-29 18:42:32 <sipa> marioxcc: i don't think so
1187 2010-12-29 18:42:40 <ArtForz> I do think so
1188 2010-12-29 18:42:42 <nanotube> sipa: i think so
1189 2010-12-29 18:42:57 <nanotube> client can not send back the work that contains a good block solve
1190 2010-12-29 18:43:05 <sipa> true
1191 2010-12-29 18:43:26 <marioxcc> nanotube: but then all it shares are deleted
1192 2010-12-29 18:43:28 <marioxcc> no?
1193 2010-12-29 18:43:32 <ArtForz> nope
1194 2010-12-29 18:43:36 <prusnak> thx
1195 2010-12-29 18:43:36 <marioxcc> ok
1196 2010-12-29 18:43:36 prusnak has left ()
1197 2010-12-29 18:44:14 <ArtForz> puddinpop restarts share counting whenever a valid block is found
1198 2010-12-29 18:44:38 <marioxcc> but do puddinpop servers tell the clients exactly which ranges to evaluate?
1199 2010-12-29 18:44:47 <marioxcc> or the range is chosed at client's will?
1200 2010-12-29 18:45:01 <nanotube> generally, when you want to 'prevent' someone from doing so, you can't do it 100%, you can only make it costly. if someone is willing to do it even at a cost to himself... you're pretty much out of luck.
1201 2010-12-29 18:45:16 <ArtForz> I think server tells client where to start exactly, but client can stop early
1202 2010-12-29 18:45:30 <nanotube> or client can just fail to report... network issues, etc.
1203 2010-12-29 18:45:34 <ArtForz> yep
1204 2010-12-29 18:45:50 <ArtForz> or report to stop short of the good solution
1205 2010-12-29 18:46:14 <nanotube> right
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1207 2010-12-29 18:46:31 darrob has joined
1208 2010-12-29 18:47:19 <marioxcc> who decides which ranges should the client evaluate in the puddinpop models?
1209 2010-12-29 18:47:22 <ArtForz> irrc puddinpops works like "hey, start mining with this block header at nonce X" and client reports back "okay, did Y nonces, best target I got is Z @ nonce AA, metahash is AB"
1210 2010-12-29 18:47:23 <marioxcc> the server or the client?
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1212 2010-12-29 18:47:56 <ArtForz> iirc server tells client where to start, after X time client reports back how many nonces it tried, the metahash it got and the best solution it found
1213 2010-12-29 18:48:18 <marioxcc> ok
1214 2010-12-29 18:48:25 <marioxcc> and then the metahash is verified at random by the server
1215 2010-12-29 18:48:26 <marioxcc> true?
1216 2010-12-29 18:48:29 <ArtForz> yep
1217 2010-12-29 18:48:46 <ArtForz> so a client can just stop short of a valid solution, sit around for the rest of its nominal time and all the server sees is that that client slowed down a bit for a few seconds
1218 2010-12-29 18:49:07 Zarutian has joined
1219 2010-12-29 18:49:31 <EvanR-work> is it possible for no nonce to work?
1220 2010-12-29 18:49:31 <ArtForz> and for a GPU miner on a user system, randomly slowing down happens a lot (flash player anyone?)
1221 2010-12-29 18:49:34 <ArtForz> yes
1222 2010-12-29 18:49:36 <marioxcc> hmm
1223 2010-12-29 18:49:40 <EvanR-work> then what
1224 2010-12-29 18:49:46 <ArtForz> well, then nothing
1225 2010-12-29 18:49:54 <ArtForz> and what do you mean "not work"
1226 2010-12-29 18:49:56 <EvanR-work> block is never finished until someone spends something?
1227 2010-12-29 18:50:00 <marioxcc> ArtForz: couldn't the server be programmed so to kick (remove shares) from clients which don't report the mandated range with its metahash?
1228 2010-12-29 18:50:22 <EvanR-work> ArtForz: no hash below the target is found
1229 2010-12-29 18:50:35 <ArtForz> puddinpops doesnt really have a target iirc
1230 2010-12-29 18:50:50 <ArtForz> client just reports the lowest hash it found
1231 2010-12-29 18:50:51 <EvanR-work> who, what?
1232 2010-12-29 18:50:58 <EvanR-work> i was asking in general
1233 2010-12-29 18:51:20 <ArtForz> of course you can have a block header where 0 nonces produce a valid result
1234 2010-12-29 18:51:33 <ArtForz> thats why we have a 1-second granularity timestamp in the header
1235 2010-12-29 18:51:34 <EvanR-work> the system never continues then?
1236 2010-12-29 18:51:58 <ArtForz> so every second a miner gets a whole new 2**32 possible tries
1237 2010-12-29 18:52:10 <EvanR-work> oh hes hashing the current time
1238 2010-12-29 18:52:20 <ArtForz> and for multiple miners you change bnExtraNonce in the coinbase TX
1239 2010-12-29 18:52:52 <marioxcc> brb
1240 2010-12-29 18:52:55 marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK
1241 2010-12-29 18:59:22 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1242 2010-12-29 19:04:56 <BoBeR> MTGOX ping ping ping
1243 2010-12-29 19:07:56 marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc
1244 2010-12-29 19:09:10 <marioxcc> there seems to be a small but significant delay in cpuminer
1245 2010-12-29 19:09:29 <marioxcc> a thread stalls until it recives a new block from the server
1246 2010-12-29 19:10:05 <marioxcc> which don't recives inmediatly, because of network latency
1247 2010-12-29 19:17:49 <mrb_> the merkel root hash changes in every getwork reply anyway
1248 2010-12-29 19:18:06 <mrb_> so a miner can get an infinite number of possible try every second
1249 2010-12-29 19:18:21 <mrb_> s/try/tries/
1250 2010-12-29 19:19:41 <marioxcc> i was thinking to make a buffer
1251 2010-12-29 19:19:59 <marioxcc> so the miner threads pick new work from it
1252 2010-12-29 19:20:15 <marioxcc> local buffer
1253 2010-12-29 19:20:38 <marioxcc> another thread would be the workbuffer keeper
1254 2010-12-29 19:20:44 <marioxcc> and request more works when it's going low
1255 2010-12-29 19:21:26 <mrb_> marioxcc: that's exactly how my miner works, keeping a work ready item for the next time getwork needs to be called
1256 2010-12-29 19:21:52 <mrb_> it's useful to have this thread also take care of validating potential finds and submitting them to bitcoind
1257 2010-12-29 19:22:07 <marioxcc> yeah, i was thinking of that too
1258 2010-12-29 19:22:18 <marioxcc> can multiple getworks be sent on the same TCP session?
1259 2010-12-29 19:22:19 <mrb_> because bitcoind is relatively slow when processing getwork rpc calls (I have seen it take 500+ms)
1260 2010-12-29 19:22:37 <mrb_> I don't know. that would only be possible if bitcoind implemented http keep-alive
1261 2010-12-29 19:23:08 <marioxcc> slush: is your server using bitcoind from mainline?
1262 2010-12-29 19:23:20 <marioxcc> mrb_: would be a nice feature for this kind of things :)
1263 2010-12-29 19:23:48 <marioxcc> mrb_: when a new block is discovered, are the works in the buffer still valid?
1264 2010-12-29 19:23:58 <marioxcc> or need it to be refreshed?
1265 2010-12-29 19:24:06 <mrb_> meh. why add the extra complexity of multiple getwork calls in the same tcp session
1266 2010-12-29 19:24:36 <marioxcc> mrb_: to improove usage eficiency of network resources
1267 2010-12-29 19:24:56 <mrb_> if you solve the same block with different nonce at almost the same time, they are both valid solutions
1268 2010-12-29 19:25:04 <mrb_> but only one will be accetped by bitcoind
1269 2010-12-29 19:25:22 <mrb_> ... that's the whole point of block chains
1270 2010-12-29 19:25:48 <marioxcc> mrb_: so the buffer needs refershing each time a new block is discovered
1271 2010-12-29 19:25:50 <marioxcc> ¿true?
1272 2010-12-29 19:26:06 <mrb_> yes
1273 2010-12-29 19:27:24 <mrb_> but the complexity of refreshing the buffer when solving a block is probably not worth it
1274 2010-12-29 19:27:35 <slush> marioxcc: yep
1275 2010-12-29 19:27:39 <marioxcc> ok
1276 2010-12-29 19:27:42 <mrb_> if you assign a full 2**32 search space to 1 of the GPUs on a 5970, it takes only 15sec to process the whole space
1277 2010-12-29 19:27:59 <mrb_> so worst case you wast 15sec finishing working on a useless block
1278 2010-12-29 19:28:02 <marioxcc> what when someone *else* discovers a block?
1279 2010-12-29 19:28:07 <marioxcc> oh, ok
1280 2010-12-29 19:28:10 <mrb_> same thing
1281 2010-12-29 19:28:11 <marioxcc> but that's on GPU's
1282 2010-12-29 19:28:15 <slush> marioxcc: getwork is pretty quick, I don't think I have performance issues with it
1283 2010-12-29 19:28:19 <mrb_> big deal a block is solved every ~10min
1284 2010-12-29 19:28:30 <mrb_> well I guess 15sec every 10min
1285 2010-12-29 19:28:33 <mrb_> is 2.5% of your time
1286 2010-12-29 19:28:54 <mrb_> so if you care about being 2.5% more efficient (1.25% on average), do it
1287 2010-12-29 19:29:06 <sipa> if a new transaction arrives which you want to incorporate, you'd also have to start over with a new getwork
1288 2010-12-29 19:29:13 <sipa> but that's not a problem if you miss one
1289 2010-12-29 19:29:18 <marioxcc> hmm
1290 2010-12-29 19:29:32 <marioxcc> so excesive buffering (100
1291 2010-12-29 19:29:36 <marioxcc> *(100+ queue)
1292 2010-12-29 19:29:40 <marioxcc> would be inefficnet
1293 2010-12-29 19:29:51 <marioxcc> for instance
1294 2010-12-29 19:29:58 <sipa> buffer where?
1295 2010-12-29 19:30:05 <sipa> client or miner?
1296 2010-12-29 19:30:10 <marioxcc> client
1297 2010-12-29 19:30:25 <marioxcc> client of mining pool
1298 2010-12-29 19:30:26 <nanotube> marioxcc: yea maybe queue one
1299 2010-12-29 19:30:28 <nanotube> but no more
1300 2010-12-29 19:30:34 <marioxcc> ok
1301 2010-12-29 19:30:40 <mrb_> I find a queue of N where N is the number of GPUs works best
1302 2010-12-29 19:30:45 <slush> marioxcc: Yep, I though that buffering can solve network latency, but it is definitley no way; there is big performance impact in working on old jobs in miners
1303 2010-12-29 19:31:03 <sipa> creating a getwork is virtually costless, no?
1304 2010-12-29 19:31:06 <mrb_> after launching the miner, they finish the first work item at the same time
1305 2010-12-29 19:31:08 <nanotube> mrb_: right one per thread
1306 2010-12-29 19:31:15 <mrb_> so the queue is immediately depleted to 0
1307 2010-12-29 19:31:33 <Diablo-D3> heh
1308 2010-12-29 19:31:35 <marioxcc> slush: isn't there any way for the client to know when the buffer needs referesh?
1309 2010-12-29 19:31:41 <Diablo-D3> network and json parsing takes about half my miner's time
1310 2010-12-29 19:31:57 <sipa> marioxcc: not with the current protocol, i fear
1311 2010-12-29 19:31:58 <Diablo-D3> thats an update every 5 seconds, or after block submit or nonce saturation
1312 2010-12-29 19:32:05 <Diablo-D3> and thats 3 getworks per GPU
1313 2010-12-29 19:32:19 <Diablo-D3> that 50%? thats of ~2% cpu usage total.
1314 2010-12-29 19:32:20 <marioxcc> sipa: oh, it's a pity :(
1315 2010-12-29 19:33:23 <Diablo-D3> or around 0.1% if you're using -f 1
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1317 2010-12-29 19:34:19 <marioxcc> hmm
1318 2010-12-29 19:34:38 <marioxcc> i suppose the client may check whether the slush pool have generated a new block
1319 2010-12-29 19:34:45 <marioxcc> by parsing http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/
1320 2010-12-29 19:34:53 <slush> oh no, please :-D
1321 2010-12-29 19:35:00 <sipa> yes, but then you're changing the protocol
1322 2010-12-29 19:35:08 <marioxcc> slush: oh, why?
1323 2010-12-29 19:35:17 <slush> If will be some miner author interested, I can make special API for pushing info about new block in network
1324 2010-12-29 19:35:21 <slush> But PLEASE don't parse this page
1325 2010-12-29 19:35:36 <slush> marioxcc: I have already 30 requests per second
1326 2010-12-29 19:35:45 <marioxcc> are you ok with the JSON version?
1327 2010-12-29 19:35:52 <marioxcc> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/
1328 2010-12-29 19:35:54 <slush> marioxcc: and this page do many database requests... ;)
1329 2010-12-29 19:36:15 <slush> no, don't call it every second from your miner, please
1330 2010-12-29 19:36:28 <marioxcc> ok
1331 2010-12-29 19:36:31 <slush> it is better to ask for new getwork every second
1332 2010-12-29 19:36:54 <sipa> the easiest way is to have a json call that blocks until new work is available
1333 2010-12-29 19:37:04 <marioxcc> of course
1334 2010-12-29 19:37:09 <sipa> a client could call that in a separate thread
1335 2010-12-29 19:37:19 <marioxcc> yes, the bufferkeeper
1336 2010-12-29 19:37:20 <sipa> and force a getwork as soon as something is returned
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1339 2010-12-29 19:37:55 <marioxcc> slush: hmm, the stats page is really so expensive in computation terms
1340 2010-12-29 19:38:05 <marioxcc> maybe you should put a limiter on request by user/IP
1341 2010-12-29 19:38:22 <sipa> or cache it :)
1342 2010-12-29 19:38:30 <marioxcc> also
1343 2010-12-29 19:38:32 <slush> marioxcc: not a problem now; but when somebody starts will polling every second, I will add it soon ;)
1344 2010-12-29 19:38:50 <slush> marioxcc: getwork is much faster, it does not perform any database call
1345 2010-12-29 19:39:30 <marioxcc> ok
1346 2010-12-29 19:42:39 <marioxcc> my english is not good enough.  is "buffer" a proper name for the work buffer we were just talking about?
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1357 2010-12-29 19:49:05 <m0mchil> hi sneak, is your presentation available online?
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1368 2010-12-29 20:12:20 AAA_awright_ has quit (Client Quit)
1369 2010-12-29 20:12:42 AAA_awright has joined
1370 2010-12-29 20:18:41 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1371 2010-12-29 20:18:42 <slush> davout: How is your market going?
1372 2010-12-29 20:18:42 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1373 2010-12-29 20:23:02 AAA_awright_ has joined
1374 2010-12-29 20:23:41 akem has joined
1375 2010-12-29 20:23:43 AAA_awright has quit (Disconnected by services)
1376 2010-12-29 20:23:50 AAA_awright_ has quit (Client Quit)
1377 2010-12-29 20:24:12 AAA_awright has joined
1378 2010-12-29 20:24:15 <ThomasV> slush: I'm looking for it to double my coins too!
1379 2010-12-29 20:25:02 <slush> ThomasV: well, so we can trade directly and we don't need market :)
1380 2010-12-29 20:26:53 <ThomasV> hey, it kept me logged in ; with mtgox I get logged out every hour or so
1381 2010-12-29 20:27:29 <ThomasV> and now we can see the order book
1382 2010-12-29 20:27:42 <ThomasV> progress is being made, apparently
1383 2010-12-29 20:29:18 <ThomasV> 100.0000 BTC are being sold at 0.24 !
1384 2010-12-29 20:29:28 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1385 2010-12-29 20:30:02 <ThomasV> (that's one million. for some reason, the decimal point is after the fourth digit)
1386 2010-12-29 20:30:10 <ThomasV> https://bitcoin-central.net/account/trade_orders/book
1387 2010-12-29 20:30:27 <ThomasV> davout: you are rich !
1388 2010-12-29 20:30:53 <sipa> 1 million?
1389 2010-12-29 20:31:04 <sipa> like 1/5 of the total amount in circulation
1390 2010-12-29 20:31:13 <ThomasV> hmm no that must be 100
1391 2010-12-29 20:31:26 <tcatm> It's 100 BTC
1392 2010-12-29 20:31:34 <slush> it's definitely 100BTC
1393 2010-12-29 20:31:49 <ThomasV> yeah I got confused
1394 2010-12-29 20:32:09 <slush> but is it really working? I'll buy them for .24!
1395 2010-12-29 20:32:32 <ThomasV> if it was working that order would be executed
1396 2010-12-29 20:32:40 <slush> davout: knock knock
1397 2010-12-29 20:33:06 <ThomasV> there's a buyiong order at the same price and amount
1398 2010-12-29 20:33:16 <tcatm> There's a buy order @ 0.24, too. I wonder why there's no trade
1399 2010-12-29 20:33:33 <ThomasV> because it's not working
1400 2010-12-29 20:33:34 <slush> because it is the same owner?
1401 2010-12-29 20:34:11 <ThomasV> and the other buy is even higher
1402 2010-12-29 20:34:30 <slush> well, davout should add big red banner "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" here ;)
1403 2010-12-29 20:34:36 <ThomasV> but there are still no charts
1404 2010-12-29 20:34:57 <ThomasV> if there are no charts, then it's a scam !
1405 2010-12-29 20:34:58 <slush> ThomasV: yes, the higher buy looks weird
1406 2010-12-29 20:35:04 <slush> :)
1407 2010-12-29 20:35:11 <tcatm> Charts are easy. He just needs to give me access to the trade data ;)
1408 2010-12-29 20:39:47 ciuciu has joined
1409 2010-12-29 20:40:17 <mizerydearia> Got wit it takes to be witty?  http://witcoin.com ^_^
1410 2010-12-29 20:51:06 <davout> hey all
1411 2010-12-29 20:51:29 <tcatm> hey davout
1412 2010-12-29 20:51:34 <davout> my scam seems to be getting a little attention
1413 2010-12-29 20:51:50 <tcatm> scam?
1414 2010-12-29 20:52:03 <davout> yea
1415 2010-12-29 20:52:11 <davout> isn't this the #bitcoin-scam chan ?
1416 2010-12-29 20:52:14 <davout> DAMN
1417 2010-12-29 20:52:31 <davout> we're making a scammer club with slush
1418 2010-12-29 20:52:40 <slush> davout: I'm only looking forward to market which will double every my order for free ;)
1419 2010-12-29 20:53:08 <slush> lol
1420 2010-12-29 20:53:14 <davout> no problem, just download my own build of the bitcoin client :)
1421 2010-12-29 20:53:52 skeledrew has joined
1422 2010-12-29 20:53:55 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1423 2010-12-29 20:54:03 <slush> looks like you are not scammer; I'm alone in #bitcoin-scam
1424 2010-12-29 20:54:50 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1425 2010-12-29 20:55:02 <davout> i'm a total irc noob
1426 2010-12-29 20:55:12 <davout> i don't know how to chat on multiple channels with pork
1427 2010-12-29 20:58:07 <slush> davout: /join #bitcoin-scam
1428 2010-12-29 20:58:15 <slush> but this room is only for real scammers
1429 2010-12-29 21:00:24 <slush> sipa: sorry, you are not welcome. only scammers here
1430 2010-12-29 21:00:30 <sipa> i noticed :'(
1431 2010-12-29 21:02:04 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1432 2010-12-29 21:04:54 <davout> slush: maybe we should setup some kind of joint offer
1433 2010-12-29 21:05:07 <davout> "get scammed two times for the price of one"
1434 2010-12-29 21:05:17 <sipa> that sounds like a scam
1435 2010-12-29 21:05:21 <sipa> i'm not buying it
1436 2010-12-29 21:05:45 <slush> :)
1437 2010-12-29 21:06:37 <slush> davout: something like "for every trade on bitcoin central we will add few fake shares in pool"? :)
1438 2010-12-29 21:09:02 Shadowolf has joined
1439 2010-12-29 21:15:43 <davout> yea that sounds nice !
1440 2010-12-29 21:15:52 <davout> I like scams! it's a nice!
1441 2010-12-29 21:17:12 <Diablo-D3> lol
1442 2010-12-29 21:19:29 jyaworski has joined
1443 2010-12-29 21:19:51 <lfm> so price is about 0,30 now
1444 2010-12-29 21:34:37 <rapacity> yes, it has to be incremented slowly
1445 2010-12-29 21:34:44 <rapacity> else the masses would take note
1446 2010-12-29 21:34:53 <UukGoblin> lol
1447 2010-12-29 21:34:56 <rapacity> market manipulation from the background is a very tricky business
1448 2010-12-29 21:35:03 <UukGoblin> like when it went from 0.06 up to 0.18 within few hours?
1449 2010-12-29 21:35:21 <lfm> or from .19 to .50 one day
1450 2010-12-29 21:35:57 <rapacity> I would reveal more info... but my benefactors.. would not be happy.
1451 2010-12-29 21:36:27 <lfm> rapacity so you are trying to manipulate price?
1452 2010-12-29 21:36:36 <rapacity> top secret
1453 2010-12-29 21:36:50 * sipa searches wikileas
1454 2010-12-29 21:36:52 <sipa> leaks
1455 2010-12-29 21:36:59 <UukGoblin> price manipulation is fairly easy... just buy/sell a lot ;-]
1456 2010-12-29 21:37:00 <rapacity> please use the wc
1457 2010-12-29 21:37:20 <rapacity> I guess the same person could do the trades
1458 2010-12-29 21:37:26 <rapacity> by trading to themselves
1459 2010-12-29 21:37:33 <lfm> uukgoblin yup easy if you have a lot of money to start with
1460 2010-12-29 21:38:38 <UukGoblin> and a lot of money behind bitcoins = stronger economy = profit!
1461 2010-12-29 21:39:06 <UukGoblin> so, rapacity, please PLEASE please start manipulating the price :-D
1462 2010-12-29 21:39:20 <UukGoblin> I can sell you 100 BTC @ 10 quid each if you want ;-]
1463 2010-12-29 21:45:48 joe_8 is now known as joe_1
1464 2010-12-29 21:46:00 <joe_1> when is price going to 1.00
1465 2010-12-29 21:47:16 <lfm> not till tommorow, oops that is rapacity's secret, dont tell anyone
1466 2010-12-29 21:47:57 <joe_1> ok
1467 2010-12-29 21:48:48 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1468 2010-12-29 21:50:50 <davout> also don't forget to double your profits on bitcoin-central.net
1469 2010-12-29 21:51:14 <davout> you'll get extra shares at slush's pool as an extra totally-legit bonus
1470 2010-12-29 21:52:06 <joe_1> how do i work that site
1471 2010-12-29 21:52:39 <lfm> it works you
1472 2010-12-29 21:52:47 <joe_1> sounds gay
1473 2010-12-29 21:52:55 <joe_1> in any case, the site does not work
1474 2010-12-29 21:52:59 Shadowolf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1475 2010-12-29 21:53:28 <ThomasV> davout: does it work ?
1476 2010-12-29 21:54:03 <davout> yea, still a couple things to iron out, but it will happily complete trades you feed it
1477 2010-12-29 21:54:16 <UukGoblin> hmm, bitcoin-central.com?
1478 2010-12-29 21:54:23 <UukGoblin> you can add LRUSD and EUR?
1479 2010-12-29 21:54:28 <lfm> thomasv just 5 min ago they were talking about it being a scam
1480 2010-12-29 21:54:29 <UukGoblin> can you withdraw too?
1481 2010-12-29 21:54:31 <davout> see http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2519.0 for a list of what i'll be working on for the next hour
1482 2010-12-29 21:54:33 <bitbot> Announcing bitcoin-central.net - trade USD and EUR for free!
1483 2010-12-29 21:54:46 <davout> lol yea you can withdraw
1484 2010-12-29 21:54:50 <UukGoblin> cool
1485 2010-12-29 21:54:52 <davout> LREUR for now
1486 2010-12-29 21:54:52 <lfm> uukgoblin probably not
1487 2010-12-29 21:56:01 <davout> i'll might start accepting EUR bank wires begininning jan, I still would need to decide whether I should segregate LREUR from EUR unlike mtgox does
1488 2010-12-29 21:56:05 <UukGoblin> davout, will you be offering an exchange rate, or will the deals be made between people?
1489 2010-12-29 21:56:35 <davout> long story shor : it just works like mtgox :)
1490 2010-12-29 21:56:39 <davout> *short
1491 2010-12-29 21:56:59 <tcatm> davout: I placed an order, the site complaint, added it again. Now I have two open orders...
1492 2010-12-29 21:57:07 <ThomasV> davout: I am not logged in anymore ...
1493 2010-12-29 21:57:15 <davout> not like bitcoin-market, (i think they're not escrowing the funds, idk, i don't have an acct there)
1494 2010-12-29 21:57:24 <davout> thomasv: i wiped the db today
1495 2010-12-29 21:57:28 <joe_1> will it have margin trading
1496 2010-12-29 21:57:28 <UukGoblin> bcm escrows btc only
1497 2010-12-29 21:57:43 <davout> thats why i insisted on you withdrawing your wealth yest night :)
1498 2010-12-29 21:58:00 <ThomasV> davout: I want to be able to see the order book even if I am not logged in
1499 2010-12-29 21:58:01 <davout> tcatm: i'm gonna look at it, top priority
1500 2010-12-29 21:58:31 <tcatm> Are my funds save or will you wipe the DB again?
1501 2010-12-29 21:59:57 <ThomasV> davout: too much captcha...
1502 2010-12-29 22:00:19 <davout> ThomasV: order book now publicly available
1503 2010-12-29 22:00:30 <davout> tcatm: no i won't wipe the db anymore
1504 2010-12-29 22:01:01 <joe_1> all captcha should be removed. it's not a message board
1505 2010-12-29 22:01:06 <tcatm> Oh and one of those trade orders got filled without me actually noticing it...
1506 2010-12-29 22:01:24 <davout> i'm planning to add an opt-out checkbox for the captchas
1507 2010-12-29 22:01:39 <ThomasV> davout: authentication failed two times. it's irritating because I do not know if it is because of the passwd or because of the captcha
1508 2010-12-29 22:02:22 kermit has joined
1509 2010-12-29 22:02:28 <tcatm> Anyway, I added LRUSD, traded for BTC and withdrew BTC so it's working :)
1510 2010-12-29 22:04:16 <bitanarchy> davout: buying lrusd with euro's is not cheap.
1511 2010-12-29 22:04:39 <davout> ThomasV: it's on purpose that the error message is not telling you, did you re-create an account ?
1512 2010-12-29 22:04:59 <ThomasV> no, do I have to ?
1513 2010-12-29 22:06:04 <ThomasV> YOU ERASED MY ACCOUNT ???
1514 2010-12-29 22:06:13 <davout> yea, i wiped the db my dear friend
1515 2010-12-29 22:06:20 <ThomasV> YOU ERASED MY ACCOUNT !!!
1516 2010-12-29 22:06:22 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1517 2010-12-29 22:06:30 <davout> tcatm: can you describe what you did to get the error message ?
1518 2010-12-29 22:06:58 * ThomasV will not use the "s" word
1519 2010-12-29 22:06:58 <davout> seems like your action made a call to the bitcoin server trying to move a negative amount between accounts
1520 2010-12-29 22:07:14 <sipa> oops!
1521 2010-12-29 22:07:19 <tcatm> trading -> new order -> click buy, enter amount 100, enter price 0.24, click USD, click "Create Trade Order"
1522 2010-12-29 22:07:21 <davout> i'm sorry for the trouble thomas :}
1523 2010-12-29 22:09:02 <tcatm> Can you add the current balance near "Signed In/Your address" it's always visible?
1524 2010-12-29 22:09:54 sgtstein has joined
1525 2010-12-29 22:10:50 <davout> yea, i'll put it in my todo list
1526 2010-12-29 22:11:05 <tcatm> Great.
1527 2010-12-29 22:11:29 kermit has joined
1528 2010-12-29 22:11:31 <davout> tcatm: does your ip end with 135 ?
1529 2010-12-29 22:11:32 <tcatm> Also, will you add an API so I can graph your exchange at bitcoincharts.com?
1530 2010-12-29 22:11:46 <tcatm> davout: yep
1531 2010-12-29 22:11:59 <davout> yea sure, just send a little email to support@bitcoin-central.net with an example of what you want
1532 2010-12-29 22:12:06 <davout> (so i have a reference)
1533 2010-12-29 22:12:41 <davout> i can just mirror some other trading place interface so you just have to copy paste some code (ew. copy pasting is evil)
1534 2010-12-29 22:13:05 <tcatm> You could mirror mtgox
1535 2010-12-29 22:13:19 <davout> yea sure, if that's easy for you
1536 2010-12-29 22:13:30 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
1537 2010-12-29 22:13:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 100064 | Current Difficulty: 14484.16236123 | Next Difficulty At Block: 100799 | Next Difficulty In: 735 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 27 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15840.98079859
1538 2010-12-29 22:13:37 <tcatm> Yep, then I could re-use the mtgox parsing functions
1539 2010-12-29 22:13:58 <davout> yea sure, that would be the easiest
1540 2010-12-29 22:14:18 <tcatm> Would a poll every 60s be okay for your server?
1541 2010-12-29 22:14:25 AAA_awright_ has joined
1542 2010-12-29 22:14:53 sgtstein has left ()
1543 2010-12-29 22:15:12 <slush> ;;rate FreeMoney 1
1544 2010-12-29 22:15:13 <gribble> Error: For identification purposes, you must have a freenode cloak to use the rating system.
1545 2010-12-29 22:15:16 <slush> heh :)
1546 2010-12-29 22:15:35 <ThomasV> davout: the trade history is empty
1547 2010-12-29 22:17:07 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1548 2010-12-29 22:17:10 <joe_1> bitcoin going up to a dollar a coin tomorrow
1549 2010-12-29 22:19:03 <lfm> yay
1550 2010-12-29 22:19:13 <Kiba> naw
1551 2010-12-29 22:19:24 <davout> tcatm: sure
1552 2010-12-29 22:19:47 <davout> tcatm: i'll feel like i have users if you do that if i keep my tail -f on the logs XD
1553 2010-12-29 22:20:05 slush has quit (Changing host)
1554 2010-12-29 22:20:05 slush has joined
1555 2010-12-29 22:20:29 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
1556 2010-12-29 22:20:34 <lfm> I heard it from a very reliable source, some guy on irc
1557 2010-12-29 22:21:01 <sipa> "i read it on the internets!"
1558 2010-12-29 22:21:42 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1559 2010-12-29 22:22:10 xelister has joined
1560 2010-12-29 22:22:31 <slush> today I sell all my bitcoins. I think it is the best time to go price up :)
1561 2010-12-29 22:23:44 <davout> slush: quick! go double them up before they raise
1562 2010-12-29 22:23:46 ciuciu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1563 2010-12-29 22:23:50 <lfm> sell low by hi huh?
1564 2010-12-29 22:24:44 * davout is happy to have serializable transactions
1565 2010-12-29 22:25:00 <davout> tcatm: your error should not happen again
1566 2010-12-29 22:25:02 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1567 2010-12-29 22:25:14 <slush> I had calculation to my HW for price 0.3, so I'm happy with current price
1568 2010-12-29 22:33:20 paul0 has joined
1569 2010-12-29 22:37:33 kermit has joined
1570 2010-12-29 22:44:07 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1571 2010-12-29 22:47:10 <brocktice> davout: Mind if I pm you about bitcoin-central?
1572 2010-12-29 22:47:18 <brocktice> s/pm/msg/
1573 2010-12-29 22:47:56 <DjeZAeL> ;;bc,calc 475
1574 2010-12-29 22:48:10 <DjeZAeL> someone could type this please ? :$
1575 2010-12-29 22:48:23 <brocktice> eh?
1576 2010-12-29 22:48:26 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc
1577 2010-12-29 22:48:27 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
1578 2010-12-29 22:48:39 <brocktice> $
1579 2010-12-29 22:52:20 <davout> brocktice: you mean like irc msg ? i'm a real noob at irc
1580 2010-12-29 22:52:58 <sipa> davout: pm = private message
1581 2010-12-29 22:57:47 <omglolbbq> almost 7Ghash O_O
1582 2010-12-29 23:00:37 <slush> omglolbbq: unfortunately. I should start with performance tweaks soon
1583 2010-12-29 23:01:35 <omglolbbq> why is it unfortunate?
1584 2010-12-29 23:01:49 <slush> omglolbbq: Because I have to make performance tweaks ;)
1585 2010-12-29 23:02:01 <omglolbbq> downtime is very short right?
1586 2010-12-29 23:02:12 <slush> omglolbbq: afaik yes
1587 2010-12-29 23:02:24 <omglolbbq> then its no problem i guess
1588 2010-12-29 23:02:36 <slush> omglolbbq: but today was added 1ghash and 40 workers
1589 2010-12-29 23:03:54 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 14000
1590 2010-12-29 23:03:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 7 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 18 minutes, and 20 seconds
1591 2010-12-29 23:04:41 <slush> omglolbbq: with current daily 'expansion' we are on peformance limit soon
1592 2010-12-29 23:04:52 <omglolbbq> whats the performance limit?
1593 2010-12-29 23:04:55 <omglolbbq> what does it depend on
1594 2010-12-29 23:05:07 <marioxcc> i think server capacity
1595 2010-12-29 23:05:09 <slush> omglolbbq: I don't know exactly. I think 10-12ghash
1596 2010-12-29 23:05:24 <marioxcc> slush: what do you mean by performance limit?
1597 2010-12-29 23:05:28 <slush> but we will see
1598 2010-12-29 23:05:29 <sipa> slush: is your server getting performance problems?
1599 2010-12-29 23:05:36 <slush> not now yet
1600 2010-12-29 23:05:55 <slush> but with 1ghash added every day, it can be an issue soon :)
1601 2010-12-29 23:06:05 <slush> nothing what I cannot handle, just have to start work on it
1602 2010-12-29 23:06:24 <slush> now I'm working on little tweaks as nicer GUI, better stats and so
1603 2010-12-29 23:07:00 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
1604 2010-12-29 23:07:09 <slush> still server load is 0.3 from 4 possible
1605 2010-12-29 23:08:11 <omglolbbq> wtf... youtube kills my miner lol
1606 2010-12-29 23:08:30 <omglolbbq> 250mhash -> 110mhash with youtube on
1607 2010-12-29 23:08:45 <marioxcc> you didn't expected it to have no impact
1608 2010-12-29 23:08:47 <marioxcc> did you?
1609 2010-12-29 23:08:52 <tcatm> It's not youtube, it's flash :)
1610 2010-12-29 23:08:53 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1611 2010-12-29 23:09:38 kermit has joined
1612 2010-12-29 23:10:00 tg has joined
1613 2010-12-29 23:10:09 <marioxcc> I want to see what other people think about my decentralized mining pool proposal
1614 2010-12-29 23:10:21 <marioxcc> specially, would someone join?
1615 2010-12-29 23:10:45 <sipa> is there anywhere a more elaborate description of that idea?
1616 2010-12-29 23:10:54 <marioxcc> sipa: not currently
1617 2010-12-29 23:11:01 <slush> marioxcc: I think it depends on specific solution. There are still many questions
1618 2010-12-29 23:11:02 <marioxcc> i'm planning to make a draft of the technical specification
1619 2010-12-29 23:11:03 <sipa> it sounds nice
1620 2010-12-29 23:11:17 <tcatm> Just use the normal bitcoin client. It's already decentralized mining.
1621 2010-12-29 23:11:17 <sipa> but i've no idea how you'd do it
1622 2010-12-29 23:11:18 TD has joined
1623 2010-12-29 23:11:44 <marioxcc> tcatm: I mean decentralized POOLed mining
1624 2010-12-29 23:11:45 fabianhjr has joined
1625 2010-12-29 23:11:47 Slix` has joined
1626 2010-12-29 23:11:51 <omglolbbq> marioxcc, ofcourse i expected impact, but even idle, when minimized it kills performance, thats somewhat unexpected
1627 2010-12-29 23:11:57 <fabianhjr> Hi, sup?
1628 2010-12-29 23:12:12 <marioxcc> hi
1629 2010-12-29 23:16:05 <marioxcc> when I fist saw the satoshi paper on bitcoin
1630 2010-12-29 23:16:26 <marioxcc> i imagined most miners as dedicated or semi-dedicated severs
1631 2010-12-29 23:16:39 <marioxcc> not as GPU's running proprietary software in laymen computers
1632 2010-12-29 23:16:46 <marioxcc> weird
1633 2010-12-29 23:17:26 <da2ce7> the openCL miners are opensource.
1634 2010-12-29 23:17:59 <sipa> the ones that are publicly available are
1635 2010-12-29 23:18:04 <marioxcc> i mean the controller
1636 2010-12-29 23:18:08 <marioxcc> and all that stuff
1637 2010-12-29 23:18:27 <sipa> controller?
1638 2010-12-29 23:18:28 <marioxcc> do anyone runs a miner with free software? :)
1639 2010-12-29 23:18:34 <da2ce7> yeah
1640 2010-12-29 23:18:42 <da2ce7> the stardard bitcoin client
1641 2010-12-29 23:18:43 <da2ce7> :D
1642 2010-12-29 23:18:49 <marioxcc> i mean a GPU miner
1643 2010-12-29 23:18:58 <sipa> the microcode in your intel cpu isn't opensource either
1644 2010-12-29 23:19:16 <da2ce7> marioxcc, a bitcoin GPU miner can connect to the standard bitcoin client.
1645 2010-12-29 23:19:19 <sipa> and neither is the bios that boots your system
1646 2010-12-29 23:19:29 * marioxcc don't support open souce but free software
1647 2010-12-29 23:19:30 <midnightmagic> i do!
1648 2010-12-29 23:19:52 <marioxcc> sipa: that's a disscussion I had several times and which I won't have again
1649 2010-12-29 23:20:36 <sipa> marioxcc: no i fail to see your point, which part do you have problems with not being open?
1650 2010-12-29 23:20:47 * davout happily crunches on a radeon 5970 with linux yay
1651 2010-12-29 23:21:06 <da2ce7> I use slush's mining pool, that isn't open source. But I don't care.
1652 2010-12-29 23:21:11 <marioxcc> sipa: "open", i don't care whether they're open
1653 2010-12-29 23:21:11 * davout is amused someone tried to conduct a trade with a negative price per coin, nice try motherfucker 
1654 2010-12-29 23:21:15 <marioxcc> but whether they're free software
1655 2010-12-29 23:21:24 <marioxcc> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
1656 2010-12-29 23:21:34 <ArtForz> so your system doesnt have ACPI support I presume?
1657 2010-12-29 23:21:39 <marioxcc> about the BIOS and such there is information about why it's important for the software to be free and why the same issue don't apply to these
1658 2010-12-29 23:21:41 <marioxcc> or didn't apply
1659 2010-12-29 23:21:48 <sipa> well i tinkered with the miner i'm using
1660 2010-12-29 23:22:09 <davout> sipa: you better get a lawyer
1661 2010-12-29 23:22:13 <marioxcc> i know there are free GPU miners
1662 2010-12-29 23:22:29 <marioxcc> i mean the GPU controllers
1663 2010-12-29 23:22:30 <sipa> since the author knows about it, i doubt that's a problem :)
1664 2010-12-29 23:22:43 <sipa> what do you mean by controller?
1665 2010-12-29 23:23:04 <marioxcc> ?
1666 2010-12-29 23:23:12 <davout> the OpenCL SDK ?
1667 2010-12-29 23:23:25 <marioxcc> the software used to comunicate the computer with the graphics card
1668 2010-12-29 23:23:46 <sipa> ah yes
1669 2010-12-29 23:23:48 <davout> you mean the motherboard ? XD
1670 2010-12-29 23:23:56 <marioxcc> davout: obiously not
1671 2010-12-29 23:24:15 <sipa> marioxcc: ok, i see your point
1672 2010-12-29 23:24:16 <marioxcc> *bv
1673 2010-12-29 23:24:47 <davout> :)
1674 2010-12-29 23:25:05 <ArtForz> nope, currently no way for a GPU miner without a propertiary driver
1675 2010-12-29 23:25:15 <marioxcc> that's what I mean ArtForz
1676 2010-12-29 23:25:28 <marioxcc> now gamers and proprietary software users get most the BTC mined
1677 2010-12-29 23:25:37 <ArtForz> if you dont like that, feel free to donate to the radeon devs to get 3D support working
1678 2010-12-29 23:25:39 <marioxcc> there isn't a real human effort put in it
1679 2010-12-29 23:25:41 <marioxcc> :(
1680 2010-12-29 23:26:09 <marioxcc> ^*(the miners, not the developers)
1681 2010-12-29 23:26:24 <da2ce7> anyone want to make a bitcoin paid version of xtube?
1682 2010-12-29 23:26:25 <marioxcc> ArtForz: could you please elaborate?
1683 2010-12-29 23:26:33 ByteCoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1685 2010-12-29 23:27:45 <ThomasV> davout: you should join #bitcoin-otc , this is where your site is getting the most comments
1686 2010-12-29 23:32:51 AAA_awright_ has joined
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1691 2010-12-29 23:36:53 <davout> ThomasV: hey, yea, good idea :)
1692 2010-12-29 23:37:14 <devon_hillard> How much faster is a hand-optimized miner, compared to the Diablo-D3 miner?
1693 2010-12-29 23:37:21 <devon_hillard> ASM-optimized
1694 2010-12-29 23:38:09 <ArtForz> 15%
1695 2010-12-29 23:38:25 <devon_hillard> is that a guess?
1696 2010-12-29 23:38:36 <ArtForz> well educated guess
1697 2010-12-29 23:38:40 <sipa> i think ArtForz knows :)
1698 2010-12-29 23:38:46 <marioxcc> devon_hillard: it depends on the build i guess
1699 2010-12-29 23:38:56 <marioxcc> the compiler and optimizations settings you do use
1700 2010-12-29 23:39:18 <Diablo-D3> 15% my fucking dick.
1701 2010-12-29 23:39:54 <marioxcc> hey, watch your words!
1702 2010-12-29 23:40:08 <xelister> yea Diablo-D3 behave!
1703 2010-12-29 23:40:17 <xelister> "~15 percent my fucking dick"
1704 2010-12-29 23:40:38 <marioxcc> haha
1705 2010-12-29 23:40:40 <ThomasV> watch your fucking words !
1706 2010-12-29 23:40:54 <xelister> family friendly spelling motherfuckers! do you use it?
1707 2010-12-29 23:41:03 <da2ce7> ooooh! http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=20511
1708 2010-12-29 23:41:04 <da2ce7> :D
1709 2010-12-29 23:41:06 <da2ce7> looks good
1710 2010-12-29 23:43:01 <da2ce7> i'll put 8 single
1711 2010-12-29 23:43:12 <da2ce7> hmm.
1712 2010-12-29 23:43:27 <da2ce7> going to be too expencive...
1713 2010-12-29 23:44:59 <ArtForz> meh
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