1 2011-01-01 00:04:00 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2 2011-01-01 00:05:27 darrob has joined
3 2011-01-01 00:21:20 <Zarutian> Happy new year!
4 2011-01-01 00:25:43 Cusipzzz has joined
5 2011-01-01 00:29:08 <Diablo-D3> [12/31/10 7:25:36 PM] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Failed to communicate with bitcoind: {"id": "1", "result": null, "error": {"message": "Server temporarily down for maintenance", "code": -131}}
6 2011-01-01 00:30:11 Cusipzzz has quit (Changing host)
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10 2011-01-01 00:37:13 <xelister> HAPPY 2011 \o/
11 2011-01-01 00:37:21 <xelister> Diablo-D3: happy 2011 my nigga o/
12 2011-01-01 00:37:31 <xelister> happy 2011 (6 hours ago?) ArtForz
13 2011-01-01 00:38:01 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
14 2011-01-01 00:39:03 <xelister> 10 BTC to who ever celebrates 2011 with me virtually \o/ ...
15 2011-01-01 00:39:41 <xelister> (*) ... by showing some sexy naked pics / cam of self celebrating lol :> 18-30 garls only
16 2011-01-01 00:47:41 Samedhi has quit (Quit: Samedhi)
17 2011-01-01 00:55:35 <noot> happy 2011!!!
18 2011-01-01 00:55:36 <xelister> [2011-01-01_00:35:44] [score][good] 1-Cypress-core1: SOLUTION SENT :-) Block found (1 blocks so far) and sent to server.
19 2011-01-01 00:55:41 <xelister> indeed happy 2011 :D
20 2011-01-01 00:58:31 <devon_hillard> what's the maximum number of shares in bitcoin.cz pool?
21 2011-01-01 01:01:09 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22 2011-01-01 01:06:40 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: no maximum
23 2011-01-01 01:06:49 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: keeps increasing, until solution is found
24 2011-01-01 01:06:58 <devon_hillard> any mean?
25 2011-01-01 01:07:10 <Diablo-D3> so maybe the y2k bug will happen this year
26 2011-01-01 01:07:17 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: finding a solution is random
27 2011-01-01 01:08:27 <Kiba> hmm
28 2011-01-01 01:08:31 <Kiba> I have 8 shares so far
29 2011-01-01 01:09:05 <Kiba> the hash rate of netbook ain't worth anything
30 2011-01-01 01:09:11 <Kiba> ain't worth even a single core
31 2011-01-01 01:13:54 noagenda has joined
32 2011-01-01 01:20:08 fabianhjr has joined
33 2011-01-01 01:20:36 <fabianhjr> So, whats up?
34 2011-01-01 01:21:18 <Kiba> the market is repairing itself after the paypal eposide
35 2011-01-01 01:22:34 <fabianhjr> Which episode? Another fraud attack?
36 2011-01-01 01:22:45 * fabianhjr ducks and cover.
37 2011-01-01 01:23:07 * fabianhjr starts searching the forums for news.
38 2011-01-01 01:25:40 <fabianhjr> There is the CoinPal thing. Kiba could you elaborate please, I have no clue. xD
39 2011-01-01 01:29:20 <EvanR> yeah, what?
40 2011-01-01 01:30:45 <fabianhjr> "the market is repairing itself after the paypal eposide" ~Kiba I guess all damage has been repaired since I didn't even felt it. xD
41 2011-01-01 01:31:03 <fabianhjr> BoBeR: how are you?
42 2011-01-01 01:31:39 <devon_hillard> what happened?
43 2011-01-01 01:32:10 <Kiba> fabianhjr: it's long after the event but repair is still ongoing
44 2011-01-01 01:32:45 <fabianhjr> Kiba: you mean when MtGox accepted PayPal and got chargeback rapped?
45 2011-01-01 01:33:00 <Kiba> yay
46 2011-01-01 01:33:19 <devon_hillard> what does "repair" mean, kiba?
47 2011-01-01 01:33:37 <Kiba> recovery
48 2011-01-01 01:34:01 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: getting all those kids and taking all their assests/liquid and give those to MtGox so he returns the PP payment option.
49 2011-01-01 01:34:25 <Kiba> not going to happen
50 2011-01-01 01:34:33 <Kiba> his paypal account need to be returned
51 2011-01-01 01:34:44 <fabianhjr> ? Why? Got frozen?
52 2011-01-01 01:34:57 <Kiba> for like 150 days
53 2011-01-01 01:35:17 <fabianhjr> We must return the PP since the majority of people use it. We need a bridge for them to switch over to Bitcoin.
54 2011-01-01 01:35:24 <fabianhjr> Kiba: WTF????
55 2011-01-01 01:35:28 <devon_hillard> fabianhjr: is there a blog or forum post about this?
56 2011-01-01 01:35:33 <fabianhjr> Why so? Any explanation on PP side?
57 2011-01-01 01:35:39 <devon_hillard> I thought bitcoin transactions can't be overturned
58 2011-01-01 01:35:42 <Kiba> PP don't do explanation
59 2011-01-01 01:35:45 <Cusipzzz> PP is terrible. we need a non-chargebackable bridge
60 2011-01-01 01:36:00 <Kiba> devon_hillard: bitcoin transactions can't be overturned is correct
61 2011-01-01 01:36:01 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: he got charbacks from PayPal. MtGox operates/is an exchange.
62 2011-01-01 01:36:20 <devon_hillard> I know mtgox
63 2011-01-01 01:36:30 <EvanR> paypal sucks
64 2011-01-01 01:36:49 <EvanR> totally consistent with the fact that most people use it
65 2011-01-01 01:36:54 <EvanR> as is typical
66 2011-01-01 01:36:55 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: so you could pay him with PayPal get MtGox USD Credits and bid/ask for Bitcoins.
67 2011-01-01 01:37:20 <Cusipzzz> you can wire transfer to mtgox
68 2011-01-01 01:37:21 <EvanR> who accepts paypal?
69 2011-01-01 01:37:38 <EvanR> besides coinpal
70 2011-01-01 01:37:48 <Kiba> lot of people in #bitcoin-otc
71 2011-01-01 01:37:50 <devon_hillard> wire transfers are expensive unless you're doing large sums ($1K multiples)
72 2011-01-01 01:37:59 <fabianhjr> EvanR: I believe he got an agent who accepts PP for MtGox credits. However, it is complicated and a long procedure.
73 2011-01-01 01:38:05 <devon_hillard> there is always moneygram, wester union
74 2011-01-01 01:38:13 <Kiba> fabianhjr: agent?
75 2011-01-01 01:38:16 <EvanR> fabianhjr: well its not advertised on the site directly
76 2011-01-01 01:38:27 <Kiba> I thought that process happens through #bitcoin-otc
77 2011-01-01 01:38:28 <EvanR> moneygram and western union is even worse
78 2011-01-01 01:38:57 <devon_hillard> but they don't do chargebacks
79 2011-01-01 01:39:05 <EvanR> they are helluva expensive
80 2011-01-01 01:39:07 <EvanR> and difficult
81 2011-01-01 01:39:09 <Cusipzzz> moenygram is only 10$
82 2011-01-01 01:39:15 <devon_hillard> not really expensive
83 2011-01-01 01:39:24 <ArtForz> hey
84 2011-01-01 01:39:29 <EvanR> i guess i didnt get my money through moneygram that one time then
85 2011-01-01 01:39:29 <ArtForz> LR is cheaper
86 2011-01-01 01:39:30 <fabianhjr> Kiba: http://bitcoinmorpheus.tumblr.com/post/2301381008/how-to-buy-bitcoin-and-mt-gox-usd-with-cash-in-the
87 2011-01-01 01:39:38 <EvanR> whatever it was was bullshit
88 2011-01-01 01:39:40 <devon_hillard> compared to money orders, they are good, especially MG
89 2011-01-01 01:39:45 <fabianhjr> NVM<. xD
90 2011-01-01 01:40:47 <Kiba> official agent?
91 2011-01-01 01:41:05 <devon_hillard> does paypal have a specific policy against virtual goods?
92 2011-01-01 01:41:15 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: not really.
93 2011-01-01 01:41:16 <EvanR> paypal has a policy of pissing sellers off
94 2011-01-01 01:41:31 <fabianhjr> ^
95 2011-01-01 01:41:33 <EvanR> since they have no choice but to accept paypal
96 2011-01-01 01:41:39 <Cusipzzz> and buyers, and anyone who runs into their arbitrary and capricious 'verification review'
97 2011-01-01 01:41:44 <devon_hillard> the only time I sent someone some money through paypal, I was delayed 2 weeks and blocked
98 2011-01-01 01:41:55 <Kiba> fraud detection
99 2011-01-01 01:42:10 <Kiba> their detection mechanism is overkill
100 2011-01-01 01:42:28 <fabianhjr> All the time I had sent people Bitcoins. Wait, it just works!^tm
101 2011-01-01 01:42:53 <EvanR> yes but we are more careful right, so we dont get scammed as easily
102 2011-01-01 01:43:03 <EvanR> so its like internet money advanced mode
103 2011-01-01 01:43:17 <EvanR> use at your own risk
104 2011-01-01 01:43:38 <devon_hillard> Is it worth for people like mtgox to get a CC merchant account?
105 2011-01-01 01:44:17 <EvanR> visa and mastercard will rip you off
106 2011-01-01 01:44:44 <ArtForz> the fees are pretty bad, and you still have the problem of chargebacks
107 2011-01-01 01:44:48 <devon_hillard> some companies provide payment systems with APIs
108 2011-01-01 01:45:46 <devon_hillard> hm... amazon credit
109 2011-01-01 01:53:33 cervanto has joined
110 2011-01-01 01:53:36 <cervanto> hny
111 2011-01-01 01:55:25 <cervanto> merry bitsmas
112 2011-01-01 01:56:24 <devon_hillard> SHA256(happy_new_year)
113 2011-01-01 02:11:28 AAA_awright_ has joined
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115 2011-01-01 02:14:27 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
116 2011-01-01 02:16:20 fabianhjr_ has joined
117 2011-01-01 02:16:37 <fabianhjr_> Kiba: got my last message?
118 2011-01-01 02:16:55 <Kiba> last what?
119 2011-01-01 02:17:28 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
120 2011-01-01 02:17:32 fabianhjr_ is now known as fabianhjr
121 2011-01-01 02:18:17 <fabianhjr> Kiba: I am filling a pledge for an open source alternative to Kickstarter using Bitcoins.
122 2011-01-01 02:18:46 <Kiba> where?
123 2011-01-01 02:19:43 <fabianhjr> Kiba: Project Development forum :P DuH!
124 2011-01-01 02:20:10 <Kiba> which one?
125 2011-01-01 02:20:33 <fabianhjr> Ours xD bitcoin.org #Project Developemnt. I am still creating the thread.
126 2011-01-01 02:20:46 <devon_hillard> can you set up a bank account to refuse chargebacks from paypal?
127 2011-01-01 02:21:27 <devon_hillard> some banks offer one-time-use credit cards
128 2011-01-01 02:24:10 noagenda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
129 2011-01-01 02:29:06 <lfm> grocery stores and wal-marts are known to sell one-time visa and master card too
130 2011-01-01 02:29:45 <Cusipzzz> can they be chafrged back ?
131 2011-01-01 02:30:24 <lfm> not sure, if so I imagine thats be hard
132 2011-01-01 02:30:33 Kiba` has joined
133 2011-01-01 02:30:40 <Cusipzzz> ya, but as long as it's possible, not very safe.
134 2011-01-01 02:31:40 <Cusipzzz> would love to see grocery stores carry 'Verified $ cards' - no chargebacks, no limits like some other prepaid cards (cannot be used some foreign merchants/gambling sites, etc)
135 2011-01-01 02:31:53 <Cusipzzz> but would prob be shut down for funding terrorism
136 2011-01-01 02:33:05 <fabianhjr> lol, lets hope then than the govs and big corps don't notice Bitcoin until it is too late.
137 2011-01-01 02:33:41 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
138 2011-01-01 02:34:25 <Cusipzzz> they will notice sadly. give it time.
139 2011-01-01 02:38:46 <EvanR> anyone here could be a cia spy
140 2011-01-01 02:39:49 <fabianhjr> Cusipzzz: if BTC gets to a point were it is mainstream they will have a hard time shutting it down.
141 2011-01-01 02:40:30 <fabianhjr> EvanR: I don't care. What can t6hey do about it? As long as 2 nodes exists they didn't shut it down. They have a low influence down here in Mexico and I am sure it will survive.
142 2011-01-01 02:41:02 TD has joined
143 2011-01-01 02:41:09 <EvanR> lol 2 nodes
144 2011-01-01 02:41:33 TD has quit (Client Quit)
145 2011-01-01 02:41:58 <Cusipzzz> much to do to really secure it. Ports/IPs could be shut down/DOS'd
146 2011-01-01 02:42:08 <EvanR> assuming they arent in US, they could run 20 and make the 2 irrelevant
147 2011-01-01 02:42:28 <Cusipzzz> need to create a new crypo secure way of finding peers.
148 2011-01-01 02:45:54 <ArtForz> you can't really protect against malicious peers without a WoT style setup aka darknet
149 2011-01-01 02:47:26 * jgarzik hopes somebody starts a "buy prepaid VISA debit card with BTC" service
150 2011-01-01 02:47:35 <jgarzik> MadHatter's virtual service is oh-so-close
151 2011-01-01 02:47:38 <Cusipzzz> can be made harder than just vanilla IP/Ports
152 2011-01-01 02:48:06 <jgarzik> how hard can it be to do your own cards, I wonder? Be nice to make a slice of that per-charge fee.
153 2011-01-01 02:48:38 <Cusipzzz> in the immortal words of Ice Cube - pimpin' aint easy.
154 2011-01-01 02:50:56 <Cusipzzz> maybe it was Ice-T...
155 2011-01-01 02:51:19 <EvanR> you can make your own cards, no visa
156 2011-01-01 02:51:30 <EvanR> you just have to choice a card network
157 2011-01-01 02:51:43 <EvanR> english
158 2011-01-01 02:51:49 <EvanR> you have to join a card network
159 2011-01-01 02:55:57 <Kiba`> nightie night
160 2011-01-01 02:56:00 * Kiba` feels fatigued
161 2011-01-01 02:56:10 <EvanR> this gift card was made by BAM card services
162 2011-01-01 02:56:13 <EvanR> LLC
163 2011-01-01 02:56:24 <EvanR> look them up
164 2011-01-01 02:57:30 <fabianhjr> Kiba`: good night
165 2011-01-01 02:57:50 <Cusipzzz> BAM BAM
166 2011-01-01 02:58:07 <EvanR> wholy owned subsidiary of books a million
167 2011-01-01 02:58:15 <Cusipzzz> ah
168 2011-01-01 02:58:28 <Cusipzzz> thought it was Emeril's compnay
169 2011-01-01 02:58:32 <EvanR> lol
170 2011-01-01 02:59:08 <EvanR> must be nice to have a company sell you stuff at cost because you own it
171 2011-01-01 03:03:18 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
172 2011-01-01 03:03:38 <fabianhjr> If anyone is interested in a crowdfunding service(Open source) then have a look at: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2558.0
173 2011-01-01 03:03:40 <bitbot> Bitcoin Crowdfunding(Open Source) - Pledge 5 BTC
174 2011-01-01 03:04:05 <fabianhjr> An example of crowdfunding is KickStarter.com
175 2011-01-01 03:06:12 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
176 2011-01-01 03:10:14 sgornick has joined
177 2011-01-01 03:15:58 <fabianhjr> So, anybody interested?
178 2011-01-01 03:21:31 <fabianhjr> Why is the channel suddenly so quiet? >_>
179 2011-01-01 03:23:30 <Cusipzzz> sleeping..
180 2011-01-01 03:27:11 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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182 2011-01-01 03:27:36 fabianhjr has joined
183 2011-01-01 03:42:26 <AAA_awright> Partying in #freenode-newyears
184 2011-01-01 03:52:12 <mizerydearia> Using the output from listtransactions method, how can I use the txid as input to determine which bitcoin address was sent to or received with?
185 2011-01-01 03:52:31 <mizerydearia> Or, more smiply, with txid as input, can I return associated bitcoin address?
186 2011-01-01 03:55:34 <mizerydearia> gettransaction method only outputs amount, fee, confirmations, duplicated txid and timestamp
187 2011-01-01 03:57:00 <mizerydearia> listreceivedbyaddress method outputs address, account, label, amount, confirmations
188 2011-01-01 03:57:54 <mizerydearia> Therefore it doesn't seem that I can identify that information and use it to provide a web-based ui producing the same information made available in the Bitcoin gui.
189 2011-01-01 03:58:07 <mizerydearia> e.g. Description column.
190 2011-01-01 03:59:04 <Cusipzzz> you are trying to find address by transaction ID ?
191 2011-01-01 04:00:48 <mizerydearia> e.g. if the transaction was credit (bitcoins sent to me) then I would like to resolve the bitcoin address that the bitcoins were send to by referencing the txid. otherwise if the transaction was debit (bitcoins I sent to another) then I would like to resolve the bitcoin address that I sent to by referencing the txid.
192 2011-01-01 04:03:03 <Cusipzzz> blockexplorer ?
193 2011-01-01 04:03:11 T_X has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
194 2011-01-01 04:03:31 T_X has joined
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197 2011-01-01 04:03:42 satamusic has joined
198 2011-01-01 04:13:44 <mizerydearia> hmm, I see that block explorer does indicate which bitcoin address the transaction was sent to. That is the information I am looking to find out how to resolve.
199 2011-01-01 04:13:50 jyaworski has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
200 2011-01-01 04:18:24 <Cusipzzz> not sure how to do it straight from bitcoind
201 2011-01-01 04:18:58 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
202 2011-01-01 04:19:16 <mizerydearia> I think a patch to make it a method available to provide that information would be useful.
203 2011-01-01 04:19:27 satamusic has joined
204 2011-01-01 04:19:48 <mizerydearia> However, perhaps such a patch already exists?
205 2011-01-01 04:20:01 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=list_of_patches
206 2011-01-01 04:24:27 <Cusipzzz> not sure i see the value of it.. why would you have tx number, but not the recvd address??
207 2011-01-01 04:25:06 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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213 2011-01-01 04:34:31 <mizerydearia> Cusipzzz, Well, execing listtransactions("*", -1) returns all transactions from wallet file. However the data returned does not indicate address.
214 2011-01-01 04:35:05 <mizerydearia> listtransactions method outputs the txid.
215 2011-01-01 04:43:52 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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221 2011-01-01 04:55:58 luke-jr_ has joined
222 2011-01-01 04:56:23 <luke-jr_> has anyone complained that bitcoin is terribly broken lately?
223 2011-01-01 04:57:38 <luke-jr_> I can't manage to get this mess to compile at all -.-
224 2011-01-01 04:59:45 rogutes has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
225 2011-01-01 05:00:10 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, What distro?
226 2011-01-01 05:00:30 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
227 2011-01-01 05:00:35 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: Gentoo
228 2011-01-01 05:00:44 <luke-jr_> amd64 stable
229 2011-01-01 05:00:44 <mizerydearia> ooh, nice
230 2011-01-01 05:00:51 <mizerydearia> I have a gentoo ebuild I prepared
231 2011-01-01 05:00:58 satamusic has joined
232 2011-01-01 05:01:03 <luke-jr_> should I hide? >_<
233 2011-01-01 05:01:30 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
234 2011-01-01 05:01:42 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, See https://github.com/mizerydearia/bitcoin_gentoo_ebuild and try bitcoin-git
235 2011-01-01 05:01:58 <mizerydearia> Related discussion @ http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=930.0
236 2011-01-01 05:02:00 <bitbot> Gentoo Linux Ebuild
237 2011-01-01 05:02:02 satamusic_ has joined
238 2011-01-01 05:02:44 ArtForz has joined
239 2011-01-01 05:03:13 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: if bitcoin switched to git at some point, someone should link it on the website
240 2011-01-01 05:03:24 <luke-jr_> I only came up with a Subversion repo on SourceForge
241 2011-01-01 05:03:30 <mizerydearia> It didn't, but I am using gavin's repo from http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
242 2011-01-01 05:03:41 <mizerydearia> It's a staging repository
243 2011-01-01 05:03:45 <luke-jr_> â¦
244 2011-01-01 05:03:49 <mizerydearia> for patches, etc that will soon become live.
245 2011-01-01 05:03:52 <mizerydearia> in official release
246 2011-01-01 05:04:06 <luke-jr_> so my branch off Subversion should be fine?
247 2011-01-01 05:04:41 <luke-jr_> x11-libs/wxGTK:2.9â
248 2011-01-01 05:04:47 <luke-jr_> that dep isn't stable
249 2011-01-01 05:04:48 <mizerydearia> well, the net-p2p/bitcoin (which uses subversion) I haven't updated in a while and doesn't work as far as I have tested.
250 2011-01-01 05:05:11 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
251 2011-01-01 05:05:34 <mizerydearia> Particularly I wanted to apply some patches that haven't been updated with subversion release, but have been included in gavin's git repository.
252 2011-01-01 05:05:35 <luke-jr_> (I also generally refuse to use anything GTK, but was going to ignore that just for testing)
253 2011-01-01 05:05:48 <mizerydearia> I wasn't able to repatch for svn and instead switched using gavin's repo.
254 2011-01-01 05:06:02 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, You can use flags to prevent the gui from compiling and only build the daemon
255 2011-01-01 05:06:04 rogutes has joined
256 2011-01-01 05:06:06 <mizerydearia> useflags
257 2011-01-01 05:06:20 <luke-jr_> is the daemon usable?
258 2011-01-01 05:06:29 <mizerydearia> yep
259 2011-01-01 05:06:36 <luke-jr_> like for a human
260 2011-01-01 05:06:41 satamusic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
261 2011-01-01 05:06:43 <mizerydearia> By default, the daemon only is compiled
262 2011-01-01 05:06:45 <mizerydearia> Yep, like for a human
263 2011-01-01 05:07:04 <mizerydearia> See http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
264 2011-01-01 05:08:14 <mizerydearia> Additionally I just released and am still working on a web based user interface control panel type of project: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2546.msg34565#msg34565
265 2011-01-01 05:08:16 <bitbot> Bitcoin Control Panel : mizerydearia: Bitcoin Control Panel I would like to prepare this initial code offering for wide adoption. I am uncertain if it is a best implementation, but it is functional and minimal in design. For the moment, a PHP-based server-side backend is made available, however, I would additionally like to expand this particular project to account fo...
266 2011-01-01 05:10:09 osmosis has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
267 2011-01-01 05:13:59 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, If you are interested in mining, check out http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
268 2011-01-01 05:14:01 <bitbot> Pooled/Remote Mining - Open Source - Updated 2010-12-24
269 2011-01-01 05:14:25 <mizerydearia> Wait
270 2011-01-01 05:14:27 <mizerydearia> wrong thread
271 2011-01-01 05:14:56 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
272 2011-01-01 05:15:23 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.0
273 2011-01-01 05:15:25 <bitbot> Cooperative mining (>4000Mhash/s, join us!)
274 2011-01-01 05:24:33 Slix` has joined
275 2011-01-01 05:34:30 <luke-jr_> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.4.4/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lcrypto++
276 2011-01-01 05:35:49 <mizerydearia> hmm
277 2011-01-01 05:37:40 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
278 2011-01-01 05:39:02 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, Can you pastebin the full output?
279 2011-01-01 05:40:21 <luke-jr_> â¦
280 2011-01-01 05:40:24 <luke-jr_> that *is* the full output
281 2011-01-01 05:40:44 <mizerydearia> hmm.. Is that using bitcoin-git ebuild that I prepared?
282 2011-01-01 05:40:56 <mizerydearia> e.g. `emerge bitcoin-git` ?
283 2011-01-01 05:41:01 <luke-jr_> no, just compiling myself
284 2011-01-01 05:41:04 <mizerydearia> Ah
285 2011-01-01 05:41:09 <luke-jr_> don't have the massive amount of memory emerge demands
286 2011-01-01 05:41:12 BCBot has joined
287 2011-01-01 05:41:33 <mizerydearia> well in that case, http://pastebin.com/zBk3gaa5
288 2011-01-01 05:41:48 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, the makefile provided with official svn release is not compatible (by default) with gentoo systems.
289 2011-01-01 05:41:59 <luke-jr_> I stole your makefile.gentoo
290 2011-01-01 05:42:02 <mizerydearia> hmm
291 2011-01-01 05:42:29 <mizerydearia> Although
292 2011-01-01 05:42:45 <mizerydearia> If you comment the lines for patches in the net-p2p/bitcoin ebuild, then it should compile just fine
293 2011-01-01 05:43:05 <mizerydearia> bitcoin-9999.ebuild, that is
294 2011-01-01 05:46:59 <fabianhjr> If anybody is interested I am pledging for a crowdfunding FOSS bitcoin website. http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2558.0
295 2011-01-01 05:47:01 <bitbot> Bitcoin Crowdfunding(Open Source) - Pledge 7 BTC
296 2011-01-01 05:47:28 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: so where is libcrypt++ supposed to come from?
297 2011-01-01 05:48:01 <mizerydearia> dev-libs/crypto++ I believe
298 2011-01-01 05:48:18 <luke-jr_> sigh
299 2011-01-01 05:48:33 <luke-jr_> why can't it be a simple CLI app without any unusual deps? -.-
300 2011-01-01 05:48:38 <mizerydearia> I am not sure if you compile from source, but using the ebuild should work.
301 2011-01-01 05:48:45 <luke-jr_> standard autoconf or cmake and stuff
302 2011-01-01 05:48:52 <mizerydearia> hmm, is crypto++ unusual dependency?
303 2011-01-01 05:49:02 <luke-jr_> yes
304 2011-01-01 05:49:13 <luke-jr_> nothing else I've ever used requires it
305 2011-01-01 05:49:40 <mizerydearia> mm, I am not sure. When I set out to prepare the ebuild I did so only because nobody else has taken initiative and I was the first gentoo user. However, I am not experienced in preparing ebuilds or compiling.
306 2011-01-01 05:50:23 <mizerydearia> You're welcome to expand upon the ebuild and make it better if you're interested.
307 2011-01-01 05:50:32 <mizerydearia> e.g. remove the dependency
308 2011-01-01 05:50:35 <luke-jr_> â¦
309 2011-01-01 05:50:46 <luke-jr_> it's required by the code.
310 2011-01-01 05:51:04 <luke-jr_> it won't compile without it
311 2011-01-01 05:52:50 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
312 2011-01-01 05:53:59 ArtForz has joined
313 2011-01-01 05:54:05 <mizerydearia> tcatm, Are you familiar with why bitcoin makes use of or requires libcrypt++? Or ArtForz?
314 2011-01-01 05:55:00 <mizerydearia> In all of ebuilds in portage, only net-irc/kvirc and net-p2p/amule use that library.
315 2011-01-01 05:55:17 <mizerydearia> http://pastebin.com/B0yXVvTd
316 2011-01-01 05:55:23 <ArtForz> weird
317 2011-01-01 05:55:39 acous has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
318 2011-01-01 05:55:40 <ArtForz> I dont think we depend on external libcrypto++
319 2011-01-01 05:55:43 acoos has joined
320 2011-01-01 05:55:44 <mizerydearia> Oh?
321 2011-01-01 05:55:47 <luke-jr_> â¦â¦â¦..
322 2011-01-01 05:55:53 <mizerydearia> Well then..
323 2011-01-01 05:56:05 <luke-jr_> internal libs are far far worse
324 2011-01-01 05:56:07 <mizerydearia> Perhaps it is specific to my ebuild and it requires a fix
325 2011-01-01 05:56:11 <luke-jr_> that's just terrible programming practices
326 2011-01-01 05:56:43 <mizerydearia> Well, that may be related to Satoshi-style of programming
327 2011-01-01 05:56:44 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: maybe next year âº
328 2011-01-01 05:56:52 <mizerydearia> heh, I can't wait another 6 minutes
329 2011-01-01 05:56:58 <mizerydearia> I want it NAO!
330 2011-01-01 05:57:07 <mizerydearia> oh, you're from the future?
331 2011-01-01 05:57:16 <luke-jr_> â¦
332 2011-01-01 05:58:05 <luke-jr_> what I mean is, maybe a year from now, bitcoin will be sanely usable, and I can accept your bitcoin
333 2011-01-01 05:58:15 <mizerydearia> sanely?
334 2011-01-01 05:58:18 <luke-jr_> but for now, it's too broken for me
335 2011-01-01 05:58:31 <mizerydearia> I believe it is sanely usable at this moment
336 2011-01-01 05:58:31 <ArtForz> I'd say yes
337 2011-01-01 05:58:40 <mizerydearia> ah, it is broken?
338 2011-01-01 05:58:45 <luke-jr_> yeah, standard ./configure&&make or cmake or something else similar
339 2011-01-01 05:58:50 <mizerydearia> mm, I see
340 2011-01-01 05:58:52 <luke-jr_> without a bunch of weird deps
341 2011-01-01 05:58:54 <luke-jr_> etc
342 2011-01-01 05:58:56 <mizerydearia> That makes sense
343 2011-01-01 05:59:06 <mizerydearia> In terms of compiling, so sanely compilable
344 2011-01-01 05:59:16 <mizerydearia> But once it's compiled correctly, the client itself is sanely usable
345 2011-01-01 05:59:19 <ArtForz> we only use the partial libcryptopp we carry around a for sha256, stock links that statically
346 2011-01-01 05:59:25 <luke-jr_> well, I can tell you off the bat that there is *no way* Gentoo will accept your ebuild ;)
347 2011-01-01 05:59:28 <luke-jr_> they like simple only
348 2011-01-01 05:59:32 <mizerydearia> Of course
349 2011-01-01 05:59:37 <mizerydearia> I haven't submitted it as of yet
350 2011-01-01 05:59:41 <mizerydearia> Besides
351 2011-01-01 05:59:52 <mizerydearia> My ebuild focuses on pulling from repo instead of versioned releases
352 2011-01-01 06:00:09 <mizerydearia> Otherwise BioMike / myckel has contributed some versioned ebuild releases
353 2011-01-01 06:00:20 <ArtForz> iirc we dont use system libcrypto for anything
354 2011-01-01 06:00:32 <luke-jr_> maybe in a year there will be a nice Qt port
355 2011-01-01 06:00:50 <mizerydearia> Perhaps you could help to make that happen?
356 2011-01-01 06:00:55 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: no time â¹
357 2011-01-01 06:00:58 * mizerydearia nods
358 2011-01-01 06:01:06 <luke-jr_> and I still see this as monetary exchange of wasted CPU cycles :P
359 2011-01-01 06:02:38 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=203.msg2021#msg2021
360 2011-01-01 06:02:41 <bitbot> Wasted Computations and Grid Computing : Bitcoiner: It does seem kind of wasteful that bitcoin relies on the consumption of resources in order to achieve its properties as a store of value. Once all bitcoins have been generated, will it continue to consume a great deal of resources? I think that this could be one technical source of a downfall would it ever to become hi...
361 2011-01-01 06:03:27 <luke-jr_> consumption is one thing. waste is another.
362 2011-01-01 06:04:14 teralaser has quit (Quit: Sleep! The only thing you don't want but do need.)
363 2011-01-01 06:04:57 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, What would you suggest as an alternative that wouldn't be considered a waste?
364 2011-01-01 06:05:19 <luke-jr_> computing something useful? shrug
365 2011-01-01 06:05:21 <fabianhjr> Happy new year from mexico City. 2011 here already. :D
366 2011-01-01 06:05:29 <mizerydearia> Well, in terms of creating a currency
367 2011-01-01 06:05:31 <luke-jr_> I don't really understand the whole process
368 2011-01-01 06:05:34 <ArtForz> wasted?
369 2011-01-01 06:05:47 <lfm> money is usefull
370 2011-01-01 06:06:08 <luke-jr_> from what I read, it sounds like the sole purpose of the computation is to be slow
371 2011-01-01 06:06:31 <lfm> the whole purpose is to be useful
372 2011-01-01 06:08:16 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
373 2011-01-01 06:09:40 <lfm> its not slow, it is very fast. 1000s of computations every second
374 2011-01-01 06:11:21 <mizerydearia> There were a few points in which computation performance has been improved originally with the introduction of the -4way switch and then additionally with idea of gpu mining.
375 2011-01-01 06:11:30 <lfm> the only way to find the good ones is to check a lot of bad ones. you have to be fast
376 2011-01-01 06:13:11 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=running_bitcoin
377 2011-01-01 06:13:27 <mizerydearia> oh, I see the -4way switch isn't listed there
378 2011-01-01 06:13:30 <lfm> are you still there luke_jr?
379 2011-01-01 06:13:34 <luke-jr_> yes
380 2011-01-01 06:14:00 <mizerydearia> and also it appears the -4way switch has been deprecated?
381 2011-01-01 06:14:21 <lfm> mizery ya 4way is mostly automatic now
382 2011-01-01 06:14:28 ArtForz has joined
383 2011-01-01 06:14:33 <mizerydearia> gah, I missed a lot of activity while I was gone periodically
384 2011-01-01 06:15:28 <ArtForz> yup, tunnel is down
385 2011-01-01 06:15:38 <luke-jr_> put it this way
386 2011-01-01 06:15:53 <luke-jr_> bitcoins have no value, except what other people attribute to them
387 2011-01-01 06:15:58 <mizerydearia> Yep
388 2011-01-01 06:16:02 <mizerydearia> Same with all other currencies
389 2011-01-01 06:16:05 <luke-jr_> no
390 2011-01-01 06:16:09 <luke-jr_> gold is *actually* useful
391 2011-01-01 06:16:11 <luke-jr_> food too
392 2011-01-01 06:16:21 <fabianhjr> Those are no currencies xD
393 2011-01-01 06:16:23 <lfm> money of all type has no value except what other people attibute to it
394 2011-01-01 06:16:31 <luke-jr_> fabianhjr: sure they are. definitely gold.
395 2011-01-01 06:17:00 <fabianhjr> Sure whatever. I will just eat this apple and not think of eating 1 Dollar.
396 2011-01-01 06:17:04 <lfm> gold has a small industrial value. besides that it is just what people will pay for it
397 2011-01-01 06:17:14 <ArtForz> errr... gold doesnt really have any major use besides being shiny and pretty inert
398 2011-01-01 06:17:16 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2046.20
399 2011-01-01 06:17:17 <lfm> gold and diamonds
400 2011-01-01 06:17:17 <bitbot> Should money have intrisic value ?
401 2011-01-01 06:17:39 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=583.0
402 2011-01-01 06:17:41 <bitbot> Bitcoin does NOT violate Mises' Regression Theorem
403 2011-01-01 06:17:42 <fabianhjr> ArtForz: it's property is demanded for high performance uses such as racing and spacecrafts.
404 2011-01-01 06:17:44 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: conducts electricity and doesn't rust?
405 2011-01-01 06:18:04 <lfm> it would be wastefull to use something valuable for just money
406 2011-01-01 06:18:11 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=382.0
407 2011-01-01 06:18:13 <bitbot> The economics of Bitcoin: How does it work?
408 2011-01-01 06:18:21 <ArtForz> yeah, but you dont need a whole lot of it for that
409 2011-01-01 06:18:35 <bitbot> Quit making me spam the chan please, kthxbai
410 2011-01-01 06:19:29 <lfm> whats a kthxbai?
411 2011-01-01 06:19:55 <mizerydearia> Variation of 'kthxbye' - the internet bastardization of "OK, thank you, goodbye".
412 2011-01-01 06:19:58 <fabianhjr> Good Night
413 2011-01-01 06:20:00 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
414 2011-01-01 06:21:02 <lfm> should be hyphenized
415 2011-01-01 06:21:40 <luke-jr_> a valueless currency depends on acceptance to gain a valueâ¦
416 2011-01-01 06:21:48 <mizerydearia> 31,000 google image results for kthxbye, 48,000 image results for kthxbai
417 2011-01-01 06:21:50 <lfm> ya so
418 2011-01-01 06:22:17 <luke-jr_> so if nobody accepts it, it will never have value
419 2011-01-01 06:22:24 <lfm> ya so
420 2011-01-01 06:22:28 <luke-jr_> and if it doesn't have value, nobody has any reason to accept it
421 2011-01-01 06:22:34 <luke-jr_> chicken & egg
422 2011-01-01 06:22:37 <ArtForz> yeah, lucky somebody accepts it
423 2011-01-01 06:22:44 <lfm> but if someone accepts it it will have value
424 2011-01-01 06:22:44 <mizerydearia> I accept it
425 2011-01-01 06:22:53 <lfm> me too
426 2011-01-01 06:23:00 <mizerydearia> and lately I haven't been so acceptant of usd
427 2011-01-01 06:23:01 <luke-jr_> where can I pay taxes in bitcoins?
428 2011-01-01 06:23:04 <lfm> so it works
429 2011-01-01 06:23:17 <lfm> bitcoiniana
430 2011-01-01 06:23:22 <ArtForz> where can I pay my taxes in gold?
431 2011-01-01 06:23:22 <lucky> there's no such thing as intrinsic value
432 2011-01-01 06:23:29 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: anywhere
433 2011-01-01 06:23:33 <mizerydearia> bitcoinania?
434 2011-01-01 06:23:51 <lucky> and 1/2 the gold mined in the world today goes into electronics.
435 2011-01-01 06:23:55 <ArtForz> meep, wrong
436 2011-01-01 06:23:57 <mizerydearia> ah, liek louisiana
437 2011-01-01 06:24:17 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: I've never had the IRS turn me down with gold
438 2011-01-01 06:24:34 blacknode has joined
439 2011-01-01 06:24:55 <blacknode> hi
440 2011-01-01 06:24:58 <ArtForz> 50% of mined gold goes into ... jewelery
441 2011-01-01 06:25:00 <lfm> hi
442 2011-01-01 06:25:12 <ArtForz> most of the rest goes to investment
443 2011-01-01 06:25:24 <blacknode> i am new kwon bitcoin currency
444 2011-01-01 06:25:29 <ArtForz> industrial use was <5% last time I checked
445 2011-01-01 06:25:34 <blacknode> and for me is exellent!
446 2011-01-01 06:25:37 <mizerydearia> http://sawaal.ibibo.com/personal-finance-and-tax/what-percentage-gold-used-jewellery-industry-investment-461738.html
447 2011-01-01 06:25:38 <lfm> half the jewelery goes into investment
448 2011-01-01 06:25:43 <blacknode> and for my nation
449 2011-01-01 06:25:43 <luke-jr_> ok, so more practical question:
450 2011-01-01 06:25:52 <luke-jr_> if I accept bitcoin, how can I pay my expenses with it
451 2011-01-01 06:26:00 <luke-jr_> or convert it to currency that I can pay expenses with?
452 2011-01-01 06:26:04 <lucky> mizerydearia, mm ok.
453 2011-01-01 06:26:13 <lucky> I seem to be ignoring the jewellery part :p
454 2011-01-01 06:26:20 <blacknode> how to run bitcoin client in 64 bits windows xp64 and run with my video card nvidia gts 240?
455 2011-01-01 06:26:20 <lfm> luke-jr exchange it for $ at mtgox.com
456 2011-01-01 06:26:22 <luke-jr_> pretty sure in the end, I'm stuck with nothing more than a bunch of numbers
457 2011-01-01 06:26:39 <lucky> luke-jr_, by selling bitcoin for currency, just like trading any other currency, or by selling it for other products like any other currency.
458 2011-01-01 06:26:46 <lfm> $ are just numbers too
459 2011-01-01 06:26:55 <blacknode> how to run bitcoin client in 64 bits windows xp64 and run with my video card nvidia gts 240?
460 2011-01-01 06:26:56 <lucky> of course somewhat more widely accepted numbers.
461 2011-01-01 06:27:14 kermit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
462 2011-01-01 06:27:16 <luke-jr_> lfm: except I can pay bills in $
463 2011-01-01 06:27:31 <lfm> us $ are more accepted than cdn $ too doesnt mean cdn $ arnt real
464 2011-01-01 06:27:32 <mizerydearia> for now, yes, and gradually as time goes on more are accepting bitcoins
465 2011-01-01 06:27:45 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, usd wasn't accepted as it was first introduced. acceptance was gradual
466 2011-01-01 06:27:53 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: yes it was
467 2011-01-01 06:28:01 <luke-jr_> there was a handy thing called a law
468 2011-01-01 06:28:06 <luke-jr_> that said everyone had to accept it
469 2011-01-01 06:28:23 <lfm> theres laws about btc too, sez they are illegal
470 2011-01-01 06:28:41 <ArtForz> says who?
471 2011-01-01 06:28:42 <lfm> that makes em more valuable to some people
472 2011-01-01 06:28:49 <blacknode> any can help me please! :$
473 2011-01-01 06:28:55 <blacknode> how to run bitcoin client in 64 bits windows xp64 and run with my video card nvidia gts 240?
474 2011-01-01 06:28:57 <lucky> It's arguable, but I suspect it's probably illegal in most countries, in the end, as well.
475 2011-01-01 06:29:07 <lucky> blacknode, the forum has info, look into "gpu mining"
476 2011-01-01 06:29:23 <blacknode> thanks lucky
477 2011-01-01 06:29:27 <lfm> and cdn $ arnt legal in us
478 2011-01-01 06:29:32 blacknode has left ()
479 2011-01-01 06:29:34 <lucky> yes, they are.
480 2011-01-01 06:29:48 <luke-jr_> so what happens if I buy bitcoins on credit card, then dispute the charge? :p
481 2011-01-01 06:29:49 <lucky> they're not legal tender, but they're not illegal in themselves in any way.
482 2011-01-01 06:30:05 <lucky> luke-jr_, the same sort of fraud offence that occurs with fraudulently reversing any charge.
483 2011-01-01 06:30:34 <luke-jr_> lucky: not quite, if BTC are considered illegal
484 2011-01-01 06:30:46 <mizerydearia> As of right now there is no legality precedence
485 2011-01-01 06:30:53 <luke-jr_> not even Liberty Dollar?
486 2011-01-01 06:30:56 <lucky> there's zero precedent other than some small-time currencies
487 2011-01-01 06:31:02 <lucky> I suspect the currency issue is not the main thing
488 2011-01-01 06:31:11 <lfm> if btc are illegal for your country then you go to jail for trying to buy em, even if you deny it later
489 2011-01-01 06:31:25 <lucky> the ability to easily launder money will be what sinks it long before BTC grows big enough to worry central governments about losing control of currency issueance.
490 2011-01-01 06:31:42 <mizerydearia> that is a theory for now lucky
491 2011-01-01 06:31:50 <lucky> yes, it's just my opinion.
492 2011-01-01 06:32:03 <ArtForz> it's up to the exchangers to follow KYC laws
493 2011-01-01 06:32:09 <mizerydearia> know your customer
494 2011-01-01 06:32:22 <luke-jr_> anyhow, let me know when there's a sane client to use
495 2011-01-01 06:32:26 <luke-jr_> I need to be getting to bed
496 2011-01-01 06:32:46 rogutes has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
497 2011-01-01 06:33:14 <lfm> ok bye
498 2011-01-01 06:33:45 <lucky> I only deal in absurdly small sums (> 10 EUR/CHF/CAD/USD per transaction) precisely to avoid any trouble
499 2011-01-01 06:33:46 <mizerydearia> In the meantime, has anyone noticed the bitcoin control panel development I designed?
500 2011-01-01 06:33:55 <lucky> also it'd be stupid to snail mail $50,000 in an envelope.
501 2011-01-01 06:34:37 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2546
502 2011-01-01 06:34:39 <bitbot> Bitcoin Control Panel
503 2011-01-01 06:34:53 <mizerydearia> For some reason I think it will be very useful, but I may be biased and it may be useless.
504 2011-01-01 06:35:37 <lucky> purty, Linux-specific looking just from skimming the readme.
505 2011-01-01 06:35:50 <mizerydearia> php-specific
506 2011-01-01 06:36:02 <mizerydearia> the one linux-specific exec command isn't necessary
507 2011-01-01 06:36:07 <lucky> $cpus = shell_exec("grep processor /proc/cpuinfo|wc -l");
508 2011-01-01 06:36:10 <mizerydearia> yeah
509 2011-01-01 06:36:19 <lucky> will break on BSD, etc.
510 2011-01-01 06:36:28 <mizerydearia> mm
511 2011-01-01 06:36:33 <mizerydearia> I can fix that.
512 2011-01-01 06:36:48 <mizerydearia> I didn't prepare the initial release to account for other platforms, but it will be fixed/improved.
513 2011-01-01 06:37:06 <mizerydearia> That is the only linux-specific line
514 2011-01-01 06:37:10 <lucky> (I can't test it otherwise :P)
515 2011-01-01 06:37:21 <mizerydearia> You can comment the line ^_^
516 2011-01-01 06:37:25 <lucky> >:(
517 2011-01-01 06:37:27 <mizerydearia> aww
518 2011-01-01 06:37:31 <lucky> hehe
519 2011-01-01 06:37:35 <mizerydearia> shall I comment it for you and push update to repository?
520 2011-01-01 06:37:47 <lfm> shell_exec()?
521 2011-01-01 06:37:49 <mizerydearia> yep
522 2011-01-01 06:37:54 satamusic has joined
523 2011-01-01 06:38:42 <mizerydearia> I wanted to extra the value for number of processors running in the system so that it can be made available for the setgenerate method
524 2011-01-01 06:38:57 <mizerydearia> for [genproclimit] optional parameter
525 2011-01-01 06:39:28 <mizerydearia> For the moment the code produces a restrictive selectbox from -1 to [genproclimit]
526 2011-01-01 06:39:38 <mizerydearia> However I can instead change the code to provide a textbox for user input
527 2011-01-01 06:39:45 <mizerydearia> and then remove the shell_exec
528 2011-01-01 06:39:47 acoos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
529 2011-01-01 06:40:18 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
530 2011-01-01 06:40:23 <mizerydearia> That may be better and alleviate the need to offer support for other o/s environments.
531 2011-01-01 06:40:51 satamusic_ has joined
532 2011-01-01 06:41:02 <lfm> xx=$(grep processor /proc/cpuinfo|wc -l)
533 2011-01-01 06:41:08 <lfm> echo $xx
534 2011-01-01 06:41:19 rogutes has joined
535 2011-01-01 06:41:42 <mizerydearia> ah, nice
536 2011-01-01 06:42:07 <mizerydearia> Although, php doesn't have a grep function
537 2011-01-01 06:42:18 <mizerydearia> I can read from the file, however.
538 2011-01-01 06:42:20 <mizerydearia> Good idea.
539 2011-01-01 06:42:29 <mizerydearia> an obvious one that I overlooked.
540 2011-01-01 06:43:02 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
541 2011-01-01 06:54:04 * mizerydearia updated repo, no longer uses shell_exec
542 2011-01-01 06:54:22 <mizerydearia> lfm, thanks for suggestion
543 2011-01-01 06:56:53 davout has joined
544 2011-01-01 06:57:17 <mizerydearia> Actually, I included the "transactions" page also. It's incomplete, but I'd like to prepare it to resemble the gui transactions view. However, I am not certain how to obtain the bitcoin address associated with a particular transaction.
545 2011-01-01 06:57:37 <mizerydearia> Does anyone know if it is possible?
546 2011-01-01 06:57:45 <davout> hi
547 2011-01-01 06:57:55 <mizerydearia> hi
548 2011-01-01 06:58:08 <bitbot> hi
549 2011-01-01 06:59:33 <davout> are you making that bitcoin client web interface?
550 2011-01-01 06:59:56 <mizerydearia> Yep,.
551 2011-01-01 07:00:21 <davout> so, your pb is to get receiving addresses if i understand
552 2011-01-01 07:00:42 <davout> isn't this in the listtransactions output ?
553 2011-01-01 07:01:08 <mizerydearia> Yeah, using listtransactions I can get confirmations, time, amount, fee and txid, but no address
554 2011-01-01 07:01:17 <mizerydearia> I imagine I will have to trigger another call providing txid as input
555 2011-01-01 07:01:38 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
556 2011-01-01 07:01:55 <mizerydearia> listtransactions doesn't output address
557 2011-01-01 07:02:38 <mizerydearia> I noticed that http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt does show that information
558 2011-01-01 07:02:44 <mizerydearia> but I am not entirely sure how that data is obtained.
559 2011-01-01 07:03:10 <mizerydearia> or http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f7f3ee44209dba5766be5e8697ea13bafdddc77699c71b262d4fda0cc0922ba2#o0
560 2011-01-01 07:03:21 <davout> listreceivedbyaddress
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562 2011-01-01 07:03:34 <davout> isn't there a gettransaction call ?
563 2011-01-01 07:03:48 <mizerydearia> There is, however it doesn't show that information either
564 2011-01-01 07:03:54 <davout> there was discussion /w gavin about that
565 2011-01-01 07:03:59 satamusic_ has joined
566 2011-01-01 07:04:11 <davout> and the fact a tx can credit multiple addresses at the same time
567 2011-01-01 07:04:38 <mizerydearia> gettransaction only shows amount, fee, confirmations, txid and time
568 2011-01-01 07:05:49 <davout> ok
569 2011-01-01 07:05:52 <davout> here we go
570 2011-01-01 07:05:55 <davout> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2404.0
571 2011-01-01 07:05:56 <mizerydearia> Yeah, I have noticed using blockexplorer that some transactions show multiple addresses
572 2011-01-01 07:05:57 <bitbot> [PULL REQUEST] add address to listtransactions output
573 2011-01-01 07:06:25 <davout> most transactions do given they have to send change back
574 2011-01-01 07:07:08 <mizerydearia> Ah, nice, I'll have to recompile and check it out.
575 2011-01-01 07:07:30 <mizerydearia> I imagine that code is already available in the staging tree at http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin?
576 2011-01-01 07:07:44 <davout> no idea
577 2011-01-01 07:07:49 <davout> not using it
578 2011-01-01 07:07:51 <mizerydearia> I'll find out.
579 2011-01-01 07:07:53 <mizerydearia> I'm using it.
580 2011-01-01 07:07:56 <davout> :)
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592 2011-01-01 07:53:45 <mizerydearia> Boo, it appears that that update to listtransactions isn't available in the staging tree.
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596 2011-01-01 09:01:52 <davout> why don't you just patch it ?
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620 2011-01-01 12:39:53 <mizerydearia> Bitcoin Control Panel transaction page updated to show address/account information now. It will only work for bitcoin clients using gavin's patch: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2404.0
621 2011-01-01 12:39:56 <bitbot> [PULL REQUEST] add address to listtransactions output
622 2011-01-01 12:40:03 <mizerydearia> thanks daveparrish
623 2011-01-01 12:40:06 <mizerydearia> davout*
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633 2011-01-01 14:21:58 <Kiba`> MT`AwAy: you been neglecting my interview!
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639 2011-01-01 15:03:45 Kiba`` is now known as kiba
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643 2011-01-01 15:50:29 <xelister> hi kiba happy new year
644 2011-01-01 15:53:29 <kiba> hi
645 2011-01-01 15:53:41 <kiba> let make bitcoin an astounding success this year!
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648 2011-01-01 15:57:46 <luke-jr_> kiba: good luck! start with creating a working client :D
649 2011-01-01 15:58:08 <kiba> luke-jr_: huh?
650 2011-01-01 15:59:28 <bonsaikitten> luke-jr_: like one not depending badly on weird wxGTK versions? ;)
651 2011-01-01 15:59:29 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
652 2011-01-01 15:59:42 <luke-jr_> bonsaikitten: yeah, that'd be one step forward
653 2011-01-01 16:00:05 <xelister> kiba: lets :)
654 2011-01-01 16:00:22 <luke-jr_> repeat for bdb
655 2011-01-01 16:00:38 <luke-jr_> get a standard SHA1 impl instead of the unusual libcrypto++ dep
656 2011-01-01 16:00:43 <kiba> my job is to build successful bitcoin business and ask question like "what's the progress on your project"
657 2011-01-01 16:01:27 <luke-jr_> probably better if they make a simple library with minimal (and standard) deps, then wrap that in a Qt GUI
658 2011-01-01 16:01:44 <kiba> there are several people making their own bitcoin client
659 2011-01-01 16:01:45 <sipa> what are you trying to make?
660 2011-01-01 16:02:06 <luke-jr_> kiba: links? any of them work?
661 2011-01-01 16:02:17 <kiba> http://www.soulplaying.com
662 2011-01-01 16:02:24 <kiba> it's a bit broken I think
663 2011-01-01 16:06:55 <TD> making a bitcoin reimplementation is hard work :)
664 2011-01-01 16:08:25 <kiba> luke-jr_: oh, I got confused
665 2011-01-01 16:13:18 lfm has joined
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668 2011-01-01 16:24:45 <sipa> is a generating transaction allowed to have multiple outputs?
669 2011-01-01 16:25:48 <sipa> or even allowed to have multiple inputs?
670 2011-01-01 16:26:09 <lfm> sipa, ya pudinpop uses that ability
671 2011-01-01 16:27:04 <sipa> lfm: that could explain the odd amount of unspent money according to my program :)
672 2011-01-01 16:27:26 <sipa> generated money that is sent to multiple people, and some use it, and some don't
673 2011-01-01 16:27:48 <lfm> sipa ya, look at block Block #99004 for instance
674 2011-01-01 16:28:17 <sipa> i see
675 2011-01-01 16:33:06 <kiba> the first day of 2011
676 2011-01-01 16:33:20 <tcatm> sipa: generation TXs don't have inputs
677 2011-01-01 16:33:21 <lfm> no kiddin!
678 2011-01-01 16:33:46 <lfm> well they have a special one, it cant be multiple afaik
679 2011-01-01 16:34:01 <tcatm> it's a coinbase
680 2011-01-01 16:34:22 <sipa> tcatm: but could they have both a coinbase and inputs?
681 2011-01-01 16:34:29 <tcatm> nope
682 2011-01-01 16:34:34 <lfm> sipa i dont think so
683 2011-01-01 16:34:38 <tcatm> only coinbase
684 2011-01-01 16:36:01 <sipa> ok
685 2011-01-01 16:36:04 <tcatm> also that coinbase doesn't have a "value". The value (e.g. 50 BTC) is implied by blocknumber and fees.
686 2011-01-01 16:36:34 <sipa> yes, i noticed
687 2011-01-01 16:36:42 <lfm> ya, like after a couple more years it will be 25
688 2011-01-01 16:36:58 <sipa> after block 210000
689 2011-01-01 16:37:22 <kiba> MT`AwAy: why are you refusing to answer my interview question in a timely manner
690 2011-01-01 16:48:49 <BoBeR> mtgox around
691 2011-01-01 16:49:25 <lfm> try email
692 2011-01-01 16:49:50 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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697 2011-01-01 17:04:22 <EvanR> kiba: that means 'no comment'
698 2011-01-01 17:13:19 BCBot has joined
699 2011-01-01 17:14:40 <MT`AwAy> kiba: I'm not refusing, more like forgetting ^^;
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703 2011-01-01 17:47:01 <sipa> ThomasV: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/spending.pdf
704 2011-01-01 17:49:20 <ThomasV> sipa: this looks strange
705 2011-01-01 17:49:44 <ThomasV> oh, no, ok
706 2011-01-01 17:49:48 <ThomasV> I got it
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708 2011-01-01 17:50:50 <sipa> ThomasV: the 2.5M where the line stays at the bottom, are never spent
709 2011-01-01 17:50:57 <ThomasV> yes
710 2011-01-01 17:51:01 <sipa> s/spent/transferred/
711 2011-01-01 17:52:04 <lfm> so like half of all btc are hoarded and not circulated, actually more than that I expect
712 2011-01-01 17:52:23 <ThomasV> but there's a very small number of coins that were exchanged very often. I guess it might be due to the client choosing how to split things
713 2011-01-01 17:52:39 <sipa> i'm making another graph, where the x-axis m is sorted by generation time
714 2011-01-01 17:53:01 <sipa> so you can see how many times older or newer coints are transferred
715 2011-01-01 17:53:11 <lfm> or just the time between the input and the output
716 2011-01-01 17:54:15 <TD> half of all coins are sat on?
717 2011-01-01 17:54:15 <ThomasV> sipa: so you'll be binning and averaging then
718 2011-01-01 17:54:17 <TD> would not surprise me
719 2011-01-01 17:54:35 <TD> it does lead to the question of how meaningful the increasing dollar value of bitcoins is though
720 2011-01-01 17:54:46 <TD> as that suggests in a liquid market the price of bitcoins should be a lot lower
721 2011-01-01 17:54:51 <lfm> or just scatter graph amount versus age
722 2011-01-01 17:55:05 <sipa> ThomasV: for each transaction i will not only calculate the average amount of earlier transactions the input was in, but also the average block number in which it was generated
723 2011-01-01 17:55:15 <ThomasV> TD: it's all my point about inflation vs deflation
724 2011-01-01 17:56:33 <ThomasV> sipa: it will be interesting to see how that graph changes over time
725 2011-01-01 18:04:07 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
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727 2011-01-01 18:07:39 <ThomasV> TD: perhaps more than half are sat on, because a given user can have several wallets
728 2011-01-01 18:08:03 <TD> i suspect the real reason is lack of things to buy in the economy, and the difficulty of converting bitcoins back into national currencies
729 2011-01-01 18:08:13 <TD> i have a small hoard of coins that i am doing nothing with right now
730 2011-01-01 18:08:18 <TD> as there's nothing i want to do with them
731 2011-01-01 18:08:22 <TD> other than small donations, etc
732 2011-01-01 18:08:51 <ThomasV> I suspect users expect the dollar value of their coins to increase
733 2011-01-01 18:08:56 <TD> that too
734 2011-01-01 18:09:07 <TD> bitcoins are a speculative bubble
735 2011-01-01 18:09:47 <ThomasV> at some point, we should introduce a bitcoin variant with a built-in inflation rate
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738 2011-01-01 18:12:13 <newsham> i expect the value of bitcoins to increase with the increase in mining cost
739 2011-01-01 18:12:54 <ThomasV> it's not sufficient
740 2011-01-01 18:12:56 <newsham> there is built-in inflation of 300 bitcoins an hour (if i got that number right)
741 2011-01-01 18:13:05 davout has joined
742 2011-01-01 18:13:22 <ThomasV> newsham: yes but it is programmed to stop at 21M
743 2011-01-01 18:13:33 <newsham> maybe you could start a fiat currency with a centralized bank that buys and sells the currency to maintain a targetted inflation rate?
744 2011-01-01 18:13:52 <ThomasV> lol
745 2011-01-01 18:14:13 <sipa> or you could create a layer around bitcoin
746 2011-01-01 18:14:26 <sipa> which multiplies values by an index
747 2011-01-01 18:14:34 <ThomasV> sipa: yes
748 2011-01-01 18:15:00 <sipa> which could be made to look like a very "normal" currency
749 2011-01-01 18:15:16 <ThomasV> but that would reward people who hold their coins
750 2011-01-01 18:15:20 <newsham> td: you should solicit services with your bitcoin hoard
751 2011-01-01 18:15:28 <newsham> want me to write you a small python program? ;-)
752 2011-01-01 18:15:31 <sipa> ThomasV: yes indeed
753 2011-01-01 18:15:37 <TD> haha
754 2011-01-01 18:15:38 <TD> thanks
755 2011-01-01 18:15:43 <TD> i can write my own programs, though
756 2011-01-01 18:15:53 <sipa> ThomasV: and you'd actually want that money goes to miners
757 2011-01-01 18:16:09 <newsham> first one's free http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/obf2.py
758 2011-01-01 18:16:30 <newsham> td: you could, but you could also sit back and have someone else do it thanks to your bankroll
759 2011-01-01 18:16:45 <TD> i don't have a hoard that big :)
760 2011-01-01 18:16:50 <TD> though i don't mind growing it
761 2011-01-01 18:16:54 <TD> if there's a service i want
762 2011-01-01 18:16:59 davout has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
763 2011-01-01 18:17:00 <newsham> second one's free too http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/machine/mand4.py
764 2011-01-01 18:18:12 <ThomasV> sipa: I do not know ; miners are perhaps not the best solution, but I have no better one... in the current centralized system, new currency is introduced through credit but it is difficult to imagine how to make this in a decentralized system
765 2011-01-01 18:18:57 davout has joined
766 2011-01-01 18:19:10 <sipa> ThomasV: well, just having an index doesn't change the current system at all
767 2011-01-01 18:19:21 <ThomasV> an index ?
768 2011-01-01 18:19:30 davout has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
769 2011-01-01 18:19:35 <sipa> 19:11:18 < sipa> or you could create a layer around bitcoin
770 2011-01-01 18:19:35 <sipa> 19:11:31 < sipa> which multiplies values by an index
771 2011-01-01 18:19:45 <newsham> is there a reason you want to make a system with built in inflation?
772 2011-01-01 18:20:19 <sipa> the only thing it would change is the psychological problem of salaries that seem to go down
773 2011-01-01 18:20:20 <ThomasV> sipa: exactly. it would change nothing to the fact that there's a strong incentive to hold your coins
774 2011-01-01 18:20:56 <sipa> i don't mind that actually
775 2011-01-01 18:21:35 <ThomasV> I do. if you don't want to reward lazy rich people, the money supply has to be increased, and the increase has to go to those who add value to the economy
776 2011-01-01 18:21:59 <DjeZAeL> (happy new year !)
777 2011-01-01 18:22:04 <newsham> ahh, you want inheritance tax ;-)
778 2011-01-01 18:22:11 <sipa> computer hardware also suffers from that... if i wait a year, i will get much better hardware for the same price (even inflation-corrected)
779 2011-01-01 18:22:15 <sipa> still i buy hardware
780 2011-01-01 18:22:17 <TD> you can encourage investment without using inflation, i suspect
781 2011-01-01 18:22:27 <TD> DjeZAeL: happy new year!
782 2011-01-01 18:22:53 <DjeZAeL> thanks, you too TD :)
783 2011-01-01 18:23:15 <ThomasV> newsham: I'm not one of those anti-tax tea partyer
784 2011-01-01 18:25:09 <newsham> neither am i. i like socialized roads, fire depts, police stations, education and dare I say health care and retirement insurance
785 2011-01-01 18:25:20 <newsham> i'm a patriot. i believe in paying taxes.
786 2011-01-01 18:26:36 <ThomasV> sipa: will you put this graph on a webpage ?
787 2011-01-01 18:26:37 <davex__> "paying taxes is patriotic. " uttered in the bitcoin channel.
788 2011-01-01 18:26:41 <davex__> gresham's law at work?
789 2011-01-01 18:27:02 <newsham> davex: we cant all be anarchists :)
790 2011-01-01 18:27:16 <kiba> why are libertarian so technological forward looking?
791 2011-01-01 18:27:26 <davex__> i think it's a good sign that non-anarchists (ie idiots) are using bitcoin.
792 2011-01-01 18:27:38 <newsham> heh.. thanks.
793 2011-01-01 18:27:44 <newsham> <- idiot
794 2011-01-01 18:27:48 <davex__> yup. ;)
795 2011-01-01 18:27:57 <sipa> ThomasV: i may, but i want to automate things a bit more :)
796 2011-01-01 18:28:24 <TD> DjeZAeL: any new years resolutions?
797 2011-01-01 18:28:30 <TD> "buy more things with bitcoin", etc? :-)
798 2011-01-01 18:28:34 <ThomasV> newsham: interesting, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
799 2011-01-01 18:28:42 <DjeZAeL> TD: not for the moment, it's too early XD
800 2011-01-01 18:30:03 <newsham> gresham goodwin and greenspun
801 2011-01-01 18:30:15 <newsham> all you ned to know on the interweb
802 2011-01-01 18:31:24 <DjeZAeL> TD: for the bitcoins, i have only 0.11BTC
803 2011-01-01 18:32:15 <DjeZAeL> and for the resolutions, I need to be more awaked to think about that ^^
804 2011-01-01 18:32:57 <TD> aww
805 2011-01-01 18:33:01 <TD> visit the faucet :)
806 2011-01-01 18:33:11 <DjeZAeL> already done
807 2011-01-01 18:33:42 <DjeZAeL> it gives only one time ?
808 2011-01-01 18:34:19 <TD> it probably gives you as often as you solve a captcha
809 2011-01-01 18:34:27 <TD> iirc it does not require a username or anything like that
810 2011-01-01 18:34:34 <ThomasV> only once a day
811 2011-01-01 18:34:41 <DjeZAeL> no it doesnt
812 2011-01-01 18:34:42 <newsham> once per day per ip addr or something
813 2011-01-01 18:34:51 <TD> oh
814 2011-01-01 18:34:55 <DjeZAeL> i had bitcoin only one time :(
815 2011-01-01 18:35:08 <lucky> once per ip, period, afaik.
816 2011-01-01 18:35:14 <DjeZAeL> According to my records, I sent 0.05 bitcoins Nov. 10, 2010 to somebody who came here with your IP address.
817 2011-01-01 18:35:43 <newsham> dhcp a new lease? ;-)
818 2011-01-01 18:35:59 <DjeZAeL> pfff not so important ;)
819 2011-01-01 18:36:08 <newsham> source routing?
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821 2011-01-01 18:36:33 <DjeZAeL> it's the 1st january today and I decided not to work !
822 2011-01-01 18:36:43 <newsham> its also saturday
823 2011-01-01 18:36:48 <TD> heh
824 2011-01-01 18:36:54 <TD> well there are other ways to get coins
825 2011-01-01 18:37:08 <DjeZAeL> newsham: also
826 2011-01-01 18:37:21 <newsham> td: except you wont buy my python services! ;-)
827 2011-01-01 18:37:23 <DjeZAeL> but the night was "hard" ^^
828 2011-01-01 18:38:31 <TD> i'll sleep on it newsham ;)
829 2011-01-01 18:38:32 <DjeZAeL> like could say The Beatles, it has been a hard day's night
830 2011-01-01 18:38:58 <newsham> td: also haskell, awk, sed, perl, x86, c, c++, sh, whatever.
831 2011-01-01 18:39:12 <newsham> will code for btc <- need a shirt that says that
832 2011-01-01 18:39:53 <TD> if you can develop a reputation for getting patches into the official c++ implementation i'm sure you could get a lot of coins for enhancements
833 2011-01-01 18:40:15 <xelister> davex__:
834 2011-01-01 18:40:17 <newsham> ick boost.
835 2011-01-01 18:40:18 <newsham> ;-)
836 2011-01-01 18:40:24 <xelister> newsham: boost rocks
837 2011-01-01 18:40:37 <xelister> although some people are too stupid to comprehand it
838 2011-01-01 18:40:39 <newsham> if you say so
839 2011-01-01 18:40:42 <newsham> true
840 2011-01-01 18:40:52 <newsham> you should write code that only very intelligent people can work on
841 2011-01-01 18:40:57 <davex__> but it doesn't compile in ndk.
842 2011-01-01 18:41:09 <newsham> davex: for android?
843 2011-01-01 18:41:10 <xelister> newsham: boost makes things much easier
844 2011-01-01 18:41:13 <davex__> ya
845 2011-01-01 18:41:19 <xelister> but you need to learn the tool of course
846 2011-01-01 18:41:20 <TD> i don't think you want to host the official client on android
847 2011-01-01 18:41:20 <newsham> is there interest in an android client?
848 2011-01-01 18:41:24 <TD> yes
849 2011-01-01 18:41:27 <TD> newsham: but i'm already writing one ;)
850 2011-01-01 18:41:37 <xelister> The American People are our employees
851 2011-01-01 18:41:38 <xelister> whose taxes fund the wars that support our schemes
852 2011-01-01 18:41:39 <newsham> doing it in pure java? or with ndk?
853 2011-01-01 18:41:40 <xelister> their kids become troops we send overseas
854 2011-01-01 18:41:40 <TD> that said. i could imagine paying others for various things that would prove useful
855 2011-01-01 18:41:41 <xelister> in return for mega malls and the American dream
856 2011-01-01 18:41:44 <xelister> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl4NlA97GeQ&feature=related ;)
857 2011-01-01 18:41:51 <davex__> TD: someone might want to.
858 2011-01-01 18:42:02 <newsham> if you do it in pure java it will run on more platforms (like gtv)
859 2011-01-01 18:42:02 <TD> pure java ..... i looked at running the official code in the NDK but decided it was better to build a fresh implemetation
860 2011-01-01 18:43:05 <newsham> sounds like a neat idea.. though with something like a cellphone i'd definitely want a good wallet backup mechanism.
861 2011-01-01 18:43:11 <newsham> pushing it encrypted to goog docs or something would be neat
862 2011-01-01 18:43:22 <newsham> so you can easily switch phones
863 2011-01-01 18:43:32 <TD> indeed
864 2011-01-01 18:43:36 <TD> fortunately android has a backup mechanism already
865 2011-01-01 18:43:56 <newsham> really? i'm not familiar with it
866 2011-01-01 18:43:58 <TD> unfortunately it is, like anything else, protected by your google password which is vulnerable to compromise. so there'd need to be an additional wallet password
867 2011-01-01 18:44:11 <TD> it's transparent. apps backup silently, the backups are restored when you reinstall the app [on a new phone or not]
868 2011-01-01 18:44:41 <newsham> interesting.. when was that added?
869 2011-01-01 18:45:18 <newsham> how about a .js implementation for browsers (and chromeos)?
870 2011-01-01 18:45:55 <newsham> hmm that might not work.. dont hink there's enough net api (without a web server helper)
871 2011-01-01 18:46:07 <davex__> js is a good idea, hadn't thought of that.
872 2011-01-01 18:46:51 <newsham> i guess at some point someone will want to write a BTC wallet web app
873 2011-01-01 18:46:59 <TD> http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/backup.html
874 2011-01-01 18:47:06 <newsham> for the kinda people who trust web apps :)
875 2011-01-01 18:47:13 <newsham> (clearly not anarchists)
876 2011-01-01 18:47:18 <TD> was added in froyo
877 2011-01-01 18:47:19 <newsham> danke td
878 2011-01-01 18:47:31 <TD> a js implementation wouldn't be very useful unless you wanted to use ChromeOS
879 2011-01-01 18:47:43 <newsham> no froyo image for my adp1 :(
880 2011-01-01 18:47:45 <TD> part of the point of having an android implementation is that android is fairly robust against malware
881 2011-01-01 18:47:51 <newsham> td: I'm typing from chromeos now
882 2011-01-01 18:47:58 <TD> newsham: i think cyanogen mod can help you?
883 2011-01-01 18:48:13 <newsham> td: possibly.. i havent been running cyanogen releases but perhaps i should
884 2011-01-01 18:48:14 <TD> newsham: really? that's pretty cool. actually, i work for google and even i don't have a chromeos laptop yet :)
885 2011-01-01 18:48:24 <TD> you are ahead of the curve, i think
886 2011-01-01 18:49:12 <newsham> td: they had an open beta program where people outside google could request a cr48
887 2011-01-01 18:49:18 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
888 2011-01-01 18:49:25 <TD> yeah, i saw it. the box seemed rather cute.
889 2011-01-01 18:49:28 <newsham> (also I did some review of chromeos with isecpartners)
890 2011-01-01 18:49:43 <TD> how are you finding it? i heard on the grapevine it's still pretty rough
891 2011-01-01 18:50:20 <newsham> i like it. its a great couch laptop for guests. i'm almost but not quite sold on the idea that my gramma or mom or some other non tech should get a box like this
892 2011-01-01 18:50:27 <newsham> to avoid malware, to simplify updates, etc.
893 2011-01-01 18:50:38 <newsham> though they would still miss the ability to do things like skype.
894 2011-01-01 18:51:34 <newsham> there's only a few rough edges i've noticed so far. like its missing a local file browsing mechanism.. but that piece is less important for the chromeos design where you're really not supposed to have local files much
895 2011-01-01 18:51:51 <newsham> what do you do at google? do you use your 20% time on bitcoin?
896 2011-01-01 18:52:08 <newsham> also please send me some goog cafe food! :)
897 2011-01-01 18:52:09 <TD> no, currently it's just a hobby. i might try and 20%ify it some time this year
898 2011-01-01 18:52:14 <TD> hah :)
899 2011-01-01 18:52:19 <TD> i work on gmail spam filtering
900 2011-01-01 18:52:25 <newsham> *heart* cafe-150
901 2011-01-01 18:52:29 <TD> well actually abuse
902 2011-01-01 18:52:32 <kiba> they still do 20% thing at google?
903 2011-01-01 18:52:36 <TD> sure
904 2011-01-01 18:53:16 <newsham> man, i would not want to work in anti-spam.
905 2011-01-01 18:53:22 <newsham> a friend of mine used to be at cloudmark though.
906 2011-01-01 18:53:36 <TD> heh, why not?
907 2011-01-01 18:53:37 <kiba> obviously
908 2011-01-01 18:53:44 <kiba> if they're still spamming, it mean that spamming works
909 2011-01-01 18:53:50 <TD> nah
910 2011-01-01 18:53:52 <newsham> td: I dont like heuristic problems much. i much rather solvable problems.
911 2011-01-01 18:54:01 <newsham> though i guess anti-spam, anti-virus, etc.. has job security
912 2011-01-01 18:54:04 <newsham> since you'll never be done
913 2011-01-01 18:54:08 <TD> you'd think so
914 2011-01-01 18:54:11 <TD> not really the case
915 2011-01-01 18:54:27 <kiba> the job security is provided by dumb human beings
916 2011-01-01 18:54:37 <TD> the threats change and move around
917 2011-01-01 18:54:54 <newsham> thats because you get a heuristic solution and they work around it.
918 2011-01-01 18:54:57 <TD> so i guess you can consider it unsolvable in that respect. but if the threats move away from your product or userbase arguably you have "solved" it for the local case
919 2011-01-01 18:55:04 <newsham> if it was a solvable problem, you'd implement solution and ther would be no new threat
920 2011-01-01 18:55:07 <TD> which is usually the one you care about
921 2011-01-01 18:55:22 <newsham> like anti-virus.. i blame church and turing!
922 2011-01-01 18:55:48 <kiba> viruses. I don't have a virus scanner on my computer
923 2011-01-01 18:56:03 <TD> the spam/abuse handling on gmail has become really, really good over time. i think it's close to as solved as it's going to get.
924 2011-01-01 18:56:14 <TD> the big remaining problem is account compromise
925 2011-01-01 18:56:21 <newsham> td: as a gmail user, i agree.. you guys do a great job.
926 2011-01-01 18:56:36 <nathan7> :O
927 2011-01-01 18:56:40 <TD> once we have better security against hijacking i think spammers will basically abandon spamming to/from the big 3 mail providers
928 2011-01-01 18:56:45 <newsham> so wait.. you work at google, you cant be an anarchist!
929 2011-01-01 18:56:50 <TD> i'm not an anarchist :)
930 2011-01-01 18:56:58 <newsham> I KNEW IT!
931 2011-01-01 18:57:34 <newsham> anyway, enough silliness.. thanks for that chat, i need to grab some food..
932 2011-01-01 18:57:39 <TD> enjoy
933 2011-01-01 19:00:33 <kiba> thanks to jgarzik's mining improvement, I am now able to do 700-600ish
934 2011-01-01 19:13:23 xelister is now known as xelister|DRUNK
935 2011-01-01 19:17:59 <lfm> kiba which algorithm?
936 2011-01-01 19:25:15 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
937 2011-01-01 19:28:05 <kiba> jgarzik's algorithm!
938 2011-01-01 19:28:29 <lfm> ok link? is it for cpus?
939 2011-01-01 19:28:36 <kiba> cpuminer!
940 2011-01-01 19:28:41 <kiba> jgarzik's thread!
941 2011-01-01 19:29:17 <lfm> cpu, 4way or cpu_asm? algorithm?
942 2011-01-01 19:31:34 akem has joined
943 2011-01-01 19:31:34 akem has quit (Changing host)
944 2011-01-01 19:31:34 akem has joined
945 2011-01-01 19:32:44 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
946 2011-01-01 19:32:57 <lfm> kiba or you just using defaults thats --algo=cpu then
947 2011-01-01 19:33:20 <kiba> no
948 2011-01-01 19:33:36 RazielZ has joined
949 2011-01-01 19:36:22 RazielZ has quit (Client Quit)
950 2011-01-01 19:39:48 <mizerydearia> Would anyone like to help populate questions and answers again? http://witcoin.com
951 2011-01-01 19:41:37 <edcba> why should i send bitcoins to awnser a question ?
952 2011-01-01 19:41:41 <nathan7> witcoin, we get jokes for bitcoins?
953 2011-01-01 19:41:44 <mizerydearia> I am more prepared to handle refunds now if the site breaks or bugs form now that I have Bitcoin Control Panel available. ^_^
954 2011-01-01 19:42:05 <mizerydearia> edcba, You can have them returned if you desire.
955 2011-01-01 19:42:25 <mizerydearia> The reason their is a price is to give the answer value.
956 2011-01-01 19:42:38 <mizerydearia> The more bitcoins you submit to an answer, the more valuable it will be.
957 2011-01-01 19:42:44 <edcba> lol
958 2011-01-01 19:42:58 <edcba> usually i'm getting paid for my anwsers...
959 2011-01-01 19:43:07 <mizerydearia> Soon I will add ability to fund additional amounts to answers from other users.
960 2011-01-01 19:43:16 <mizerydearia> And then you will be able to get paid for your answers.
961 2011-01-01 19:43:28 <mizerydearia> e.g. 75% of funds sent to the answer will go directly to the answerer.
962 2011-01-01 19:44:05 <mizerydearia> The remaining 25% will go to noagendamarket to cover costs and fund further projects.
963 2011-01-01 19:44:47 <mizerydearia> That is the idea anyway.
964 2011-01-01 19:44:48 <edcba> i find 25% is a lot
965 2011-01-01 19:44:50 <mizerydearia> I'm still working on the site.
966 2011-01-01 19:44:54 <edcba> but i like the idea
967 2011-01-01 19:45:36 <edcba> now 25% may be ok if you don't do advertising or data selling
968 2011-01-01 19:45:44 <mizerydearia> I don't plan on it.
969 2011-01-01 19:45:46 <Cusipzzz> Bitcoin Control Panel ?
970 2011-01-01 19:45:56 <mizerydearia> I'd like to keep the question and asking in an anonymous fashion
971 2011-01-01 19:46:18 <mizerydearia> Cusipzzz, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2546.msg34565#msg34565
972 2011-01-01 19:46:20 <bitbot> Bitcoin Control Panel : mizerydearia: Bitcoin Control Panel I would like to prepare this initial code offering for wide adoption. I am uncertain if it is a best implementation, but it is functional and minimal in design. For the moment, a PHP-based server-side backend is made available, however, I would additionally like to expand this particular project to account fo...
973 2011-01-01 19:46:43 <lfm> can we just put "if you found this answer usefull send a tip to {btaddress}"?
974 2011-01-01 19:47:03 <Cusipzzz> mizerydearia: thanks
975 2011-01-01 19:47:23 <mizerydearia> I suppose you could, however in that case it will miss out on the future features I plan on implementing
976 2011-01-01 19:47:54 <mizerydearia> Particular ranking questions and answers based on their worth, making them appear first.
977 2011-01-01 19:48:21 <lfm> how would you assign worth?
978 2011-01-01 19:48:33 <mizerydearia> By funding the question or answer with bitcoins.
979 2011-01-01 19:48:41 <mizerydearia> In the case of funding a question, all proceeds go to noagendamarket
980 2011-01-01 19:48:53 <mizerydearia> In the case of funding an answer 75% will go to answerer and 25% to noagendamarket
981 2011-01-01 19:49:20 <mizerydearia> As of yet I haven't implemented the funding of answers, however.
982 2011-01-01 19:49:33 <kiba> what about your pizza project?
983 2011-01-01 19:49:38 <kiba> shouldn't you get that done first?
984 2011-01-01 19:49:49 <Cusipzzz> lol
985 2011-01-01 19:49:54 <mizerydearia> I am taking a break from it for now as I am having difficulty proceeding or knowing how to proceed.
986 2011-01-01 19:50:14 <Cusipzzz> mizerydearia: are you going to continue to work on the Control Panel ?
987 2011-01-01 19:51:40 * edcba still connected ?
988 2011-01-01 19:52:02 <mizerydearia> Possibly, but I would like to encourage others to possibly contribute to make it better. I needed a web based interface to manage Bitcoin client and so I designed something useful for myself whilst also providing it available for others to use and expand upon, make better. I can help contribute bits and pieces here and there, but others' viewpoints on the direction to proceed with it would be helpful.
989 2011-01-01 19:52:09 * edcba loves when his connection goes down when testing timing issues with websites :)
990 2011-01-01 19:52:29 <edcba> You must wait for 1 confirmation receipt of your submitted Bitcoins before asking a question. Please wait and try again.No error message. This is an error. Please contact site admin. ^_^
991 2011-01-01 19:52:34 <mizerydearia> ^_^
992 2011-01-01 19:52:39 <mizerydearia> uhojh
993 2011-01-01 19:53:51 <mizerydearia> Ah, I forgot the "else "
994 2011-01-01 19:53:59 <Cusipzzz> lol
995 2011-01-01 19:54:14 <edcba> you should just accept the question
996 2011-01-01 19:54:30 <mizerydearia> I would, but the reason I cannot is because...
997 2011-01-01 19:54:48 <edcba> because ?
998 2011-01-01 19:54:49 <mizerydearia> If you want to have the bitcoins returned, if there aren't enough in the bitcoin account, then there will be an error.
999 2011-01-01 19:55:07 <mizerydearia> and I'd rather not set up a crontask to manage handling returns.
1000 2011-01-01 19:55:07 <edcba> you just schedule the return
1001 2011-01-01 19:55:12 <edcba> lol
1002 2011-01-01 19:55:41 <mizerydearia> You're welcome to use the site freely, however, that is not the particular focus or intention of the site.
1003 2011-01-01 19:55:48 <edcba> ok then no crontask but code it in website directly :)
1004 2011-01-01 19:55:52 <mizerydearia> I'd like to prepare it to be a useful question and asking resource.
1005 2011-01-01 19:56:19 <edcba> we really need some uri bitcoin scheme
1006 2011-01-01 19:56:33 <edcba> it would be so much easier to use
1007 2011-01-01 19:56:38 marioxcc has joined
1008 2011-01-01 19:57:37 <newsham> btc://1TmK4hmbyH2AhwTATyoGcMxJH3Db9ohgB
1009 2011-01-01 19:57:53 <edcba> no lol no //
1010 2011-01-01 19:57:57 <edcba> it's useless :)
1011 2011-01-01 19:57:57 <marioxcc> uh?
1012 2011-01-01 19:58:03 <newsham> the //.../ is for addr
1013 2011-01-01 19:58:20 <marioxcc> what are you talking about guys?
1014 2011-01-01 19:58:23 <marioxcc> and happy new year BTW
1015 2011-01-01 19:58:29 <edcba> the // implies hierarchy
1016 2011-01-01 19:58:33 <edcba> happy new year too
1017 2011-01-01 19:59:13 <marioxcc> do you want to intruce yet-another-unofficial-extension to the URI?
1018 2011-01-01 19:59:17 <marioxcc> *introduce
1019 2011-01-01 19:59:30 <edcba> extension ?
1020 2011-01-01 19:59:35 <edcba> just another uri
1021 2011-01-01 19:59:40 <edcba> i don't see the problem
1022 2011-01-01 19:59:54 <marioxcc> i don't see the benefit
1023 2011-01-01 20:00:04 <marioxcc> I would just use the directions per se
1024 2011-01-01 20:00:15 <edcba> which directions ?
1025 2011-01-01 20:00:24 <marioxcc> bitcoin directions
1026 2011-01-01 20:00:42 <marioxcc> i think it's a text encoding for a RIPEMD160
1027 2011-01-01 20:00:48 <marioxcc> not sure, thu*
1028 2011-01-01 20:01:08 <edcba> satsohi should just implement at least a basic uri scheme
1029 2011-01-01 20:01:29 <marioxcc> why should he?
1030 2011-01-01 20:01:29 <edcba> ie a crude btc:1TmK4hmbyH2AhwTATyoGcMxJH3Db9ohgB
1031 2011-01-01 20:01:46 <edcba> because that would help a lot to implement bitcoin on websites
1032 2011-01-01 20:01:47 <marioxcc> the original bitcoin client is free software, you can implement what you want
1033 2011-01-01 20:01:59 <edcba> of course but that won't help
1034 2011-01-01 20:02:04 <marioxcc> why won't it?
1035 2011-01-01 20:02:10 <marioxcc> just implement it yourself and send the patch
1036 2011-01-01 20:02:13 <edcba> i could dev my own flash replacement
1037 2011-01-01 20:02:16 <newsham> <a href="btc://1TmK4hmbyH2AhwTATyoGcMxJH3Db9ohgB/23.25">pay me now!</a>.
1038 2011-01-01 20:02:21 <edcba> that doesn't mean ppl will stop using flash :)
1039 2011-01-01 20:02:40 <marioxcc> edcba: no, because flash is proprietary software
1040 2011-01-01 20:02:52 <marioxcc> and their developers are likley to reject anything which don't comes from them
1041 2011-01-01 20:02:58 <edcba> newsham: you know ppl not necessarily use . as decimal separator btw ? :)
1042 2011-01-01 20:03:04 <marioxcc> however, i'm sure satoshi will include any reasonable patch in the mainline
1043 2011-01-01 20:03:07 <edcba> and i still don't like using / as separator
1044 2011-01-01 20:03:13 <newsham> edcba: a standardized uri would :)
1045 2011-01-01 20:03:34 <edcba> yes i think too indeed
1046 2011-01-01 20:03:50 <edcba> but i'm not very fond of / separator
1047 2011-01-01 20:04:08 <newsham> uri's use //addr/local/descr/here
1048 2011-01-01 20:04:10 <marioxcc> so please don't say satoshi should do X and Y, do it yourself and send a patch or make a fork, if it's good enough people will use it
1049 2011-01-01 20:04:11 <newsham> *shru*
1050 2011-01-01 20:04:16 <edcba> newsham: http uri
1051 2011-01-01 20:04:17 <marioxcc> thanks for your understanding :)
1052 2011-01-01 20:04:23 <newsham> non-http uris too
1053 2011-01-01 20:04:26 <edcba> some
1054 2011-01-01 20:05:11 <edcba> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_scheme#Generic_syntax
1055 2011-01-01 20:05:30 <edcba> you don't have mailto://newsham@freenode.net/ :)
1056 2011-01-01 20:06:18 <newsham> irc://freenode/newsham
1057 2011-01-01 20:06:25 <marioxcc> edcba: I would suggest to consult http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986
1058 2011-01-01 20:06:56 satamusic_ has joined
1059 2011-01-01 20:07:12 <edcba> absolute-URI = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ]
1060 2011-01-01 20:07:21 <edcba> that's what says that rfc :)
1061 2011-01-01 20:07:53 <newsham> rfc://3986?wtf
1062 2011-01-01 20:08:16 <marioxcc> hier-part = "//" authority path-abempty
1063 2011-01-01 20:08:16 <marioxcc> / path-absolute
1064 2011-01-01 20:08:16 <marioxcc> / path-rootless
1065 2011-01-01 20:08:16 <marioxcc> / path-empty
1066 2011-01-01 20:08:20 <marioxcc> here you have
1067 2011-01-01 20:08:23 <sipa> yes
1068 2011-01-01 20:08:26 <marioxcc> you have to learn to read rfc's
1069 2011-01-01 20:08:28 <marioxcc> :P
1070 2011-01-01 20:08:33 <edcba> that implies hierarchical content...
1071 2011-01-01 20:08:47 <sipa> but if there is no reasonable hierarchic part, don't use one
1072 2011-01-01 20:08:50 <sipa> like magnet links
1073 2011-01-01 20:09:12 <marioxcc> it just references more definitions
1074 2011-01-01 20:09:30 <marioxcc> path-abempty, path-absolute, path-rootless and path-empty
1075 2011-01-01 20:09:36 <marioxcc> lets see
1076 2011-01-01 20:09:50 <newsham> its a grammar
1077 2011-01-01 20:09:51 <edcba> http://www.w3.org/TR/uri-clarification/
1078 2011-01-01 20:09:57 <newsham> grammars do that
1079 2011-01-01 20:10:13 <marioxcc> newsham: i know, i mean we should see these too
1080 2011-01-01 20:10:21 <newsham> you can.. its in the rfc.
1081 2011-01-01 20:10:25 <newsham> its free even.
1082 2011-01-01 20:10:27 <newsham> no btc's required
1083 2011-01-01 20:11:05 <marioxcc> that's what i'm doing
1084 2011-01-01 20:11:32 <Cusipzzz> satoshi should do X and Y imo =)
1085 2011-01-01 20:12:28 <edcba> Cusipzzz: yes of course :)
1086 2011-01-01 20:12:55 <edcba> but either i have to do my own fork with X and Y or my new whole client if i want enough ppl using that
1087 2011-01-01 20:13:17 <edcba> and a fork with X and Y would not gain traction without a really good X
1088 2011-01-01 20:13:21 <edcba> or Y
1089 2011-01-01 20:13:47 <Cusipzzz> right... but if HE does it...it becomes de facto done
1090 2011-01-01 20:13:51 <edcba> indeed
1091 2011-01-01 20:14:02 <marioxcc> my point is, because bitcoin is free software you don't depend on their developers to get something done
1092 2011-01-01 20:14:13 <marioxcc> if you want X and Y do it yourself or pay someone for do so
1093 2011-01-01 20:14:14 <edcba> but satoshi is not really the kind of ppl listening to others suggestions it seems :p
1094 2011-01-01 20:14:38 <edcba> it's not a developping issue
1095 2011-01-01 20:14:44 <marioxcc> what is it then?
1096 2011-01-01 20:14:46 <Cusipzzz> it's an inclusion issue
1097 2011-01-01 20:14:51 <edcba> it's political/marketing :)
1098 2011-01-01 20:14:58 <marioxcc> duh
1099 2011-01-01 20:15:04 <edcba> or community thing
1100 2011-01-01 20:15:34 <edcba> if not enough ppl thinks X and Y is good i can throw a lot of money in it, that won't change anything :)
1101 2011-01-01 20:15:59 <marioxcc> edcba:
1102 2011-01-01 20:16:01 <Cusipzzz> buy satoshi hookers and blow, imo
1103 2011-01-01 20:16:02 <marioxcc> oops
1104 2011-01-01 20:16:15 <newsham> whats the btc to blow conversion factor?
1105 2011-01-01 20:16:27 <Cusipzzz> good question... should add that to mtgox
1106 2011-01-01 20:16:34 <edcba> Cusipzzz: haha
1107 2011-01-01 20:16:39 <marioxcc> edcba:
1108 2011-01-01 20:16:39 <marioxcc> *do the changes you want
1109 2011-01-01 20:16:39 <marioxcc> *make a patch and submit if to mainstream
1110 2011-01-01 20:16:42 <marioxcc> *if it gets accepted, end
1111 2011-01-01 20:16:43 <marioxcc> *if it is not accepted, publish it on GNU savannah or another FS hosting site
1112 2011-01-01 20:16:49 <marioxcc> so easy...
1113 2011-01-01 20:17:16 <Cusipzzz> not so easy
1114 2011-01-01 20:17:53 <edcba> not easy since i don't own mac and i don't know how work uri handling in various desktop environments in fact
1115 2011-01-01 20:17:54 devon_hillard_ has joined
1116 2011-01-01 20:17:55 devon_hillard_ has quit (Client Quit)
1117 2011-01-01 20:18:04 <marioxcc> that's the problem of free software (and open source too), the users are every time more passive, they expect someone else to do all the development
1118 2011-01-01 20:18:15 <marioxcc> and if it don't gets done they will just complain
1119 2011-01-01 20:20:30 <devon_hillard> who is running the bitcoin.cz bitcoin pool?
1120 2011-01-01 20:20:59 <Cusipzzz> apparently hookers in japan run 150-400 USD, so maybe 800 BTC. blow is 140/gram so maybe 600BTC
1121 2011-01-01 20:21:15 <Cusipzzz> google is your friend
1122 2011-01-01 20:21:16 <edcba> devon_hillard: email@bitcoinme.com ?
1123 2011-01-01 20:21:36 <edcba> Cusipzzz: that's about everything i own in bitcoins !!!
1124 2011-01-01 20:21:44 <Cusipzzz> :(
1125 2011-01-01 20:21:54 <devon_hillard> yeah, just hit a null pointer exception in Diablo's miner: http://pastebin.com/xSPfKF7U
1126 2011-01-01 20:22:04 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3 ^^
1127 2011-01-01 20:23:42 <devon_hillard> I hope that's enough information
1128 2011-01-01 20:24:36 AAA_awright has joined
1129 2011-01-01 20:25:16 <edcba> usually line number is enough
1130 2011-01-01 20:25:48 <devon_hillard> seven hours of no mining :(
1131 2011-01-01 20:26:43 <edcba> where is the diablominer ?
1132 2011-01-01 20:26:54 <edcba> ok found it
1133 2011-01-01 20:33:17 satamusic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1134 2011-01-01 20:34:19 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1135 2011-01-01 20:35:08 <marioxcc> devon_hillard: just saw your question, slush operates the bitcoin pool at bitcoin.cz
1136 2011-01-01 20:38:29 mtgox has joined
1137 2011-01-01 20:40:08 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1138 2011-01-01 20:43:27 Hogofwar has joined
1139 2011-01-01 20:43:55 <Hogofwar> Anyone here use python? I need some help with something
1140 2011-01-01 20:44:55 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1141 2011-01-01 20:45:22 <marioxcc> Hogofwar: i'm pretty sure there is a python channel where you're more likely to get a answer
1142 2011-01-01 20:45:58 <tcatm> Hogofwar: If it's somethine simple... :)
1143 2011-01-01 20:46:13 <newsham> marioxcc: half correct.
1144 2011-01-01 20:46:19 <newsham> frenode does hvae a python channel.
1145 2011-01-01 20:46:31 <newsham> hogofwar: how much btc for help?
1146 2011-01-01 20:47:05 <marioxcc> newsham: *half*?
1147 2011-01-01 20:47:15 <Hogofwar> fixed it, nevermind
1148 2011-01-01 20:47:24 Hogofwar has quit ()
1149 2011-01-01 20:47:31 <newsham> marioxcc: you are probably ont more likely to get any useful answer there
1150 2011-01-01 20:49:01 <newsham> does bitcoin.cz's "found blocks" count show how many real blocks my machine has personally found? or just how many blocks my machine has helped bitcoin.cz to find?
1151 2011-01-01 20:50:19 <marioxcc> newsham: what do you mean by "helping to find a block"?
1152 2011-01-01 20:50:27 <marioxcc> you either find it or not find it
1153 2011-01-01 20:51:19 <newsham> its a pool.
1154 2011-01-01 20:51:21 <marioxcc> hence, my interpretation is "Found blocks" is the number of blocks you found
1155 2011-01-01 20:51:42 <newsham> it says "1" for me.. which seems high given that i've only been using the pool 1 day
1156 2011-01-01 20:52:00 <marioxcc> well, you know how randomness is ;-)
1157 2011-01-01 20:52:43 <marioxcc> i would say you found one
1158 2011-01-01 20:53:12 <marioxcc> bear in mind the meaning of _help to find a block_ is vague, since the probability per try is the same
1159 2011-01-01 20:53:31 <marioxcc> so there isn't you increase the probability of others to find a block, rather you either find a block or not find it
1160 2011-01-01 20:53:49 <newsham> yah could be just lucky
1161 2011-01-01 20:53:53 <newsham> but still i'm skeptical
1162 2011-01-01 20:53:58 AAA_awright has joined
1163 2011-01-01 20:54:08 <newsham> mario: either I did or I didnt participate in one of the blocks that the pool did find
1164 2011-01-01 20:54:54 <marioxcc> newsham: i don't think it is that easy
1165 2011-01-01 20:55:02 <marioxcc> for every getwork you get a different block to work on
1166 2011-01-01 20:55:13 <marioxcc> everyone is working on different blocks
1167 2011-01-01 20:55:31 <marioxcc> someone just happens to resolve his block
1168 2011-01-01 20:55:46 <marioxcc> not to resolve THE block, because there isn't a single one to work one
1169 2011-01-01 20:57:29 <newsham> ahh
1170 2011-01-01 20:58:03 <slush> newsham: 100304 is yours...
1171 2011-01-01 20:58:17 <newsham> wow, i should get some sorta bonus! ;-)
1172 2011-01-01 20:58:31 <newsham> btw, did anyone celebrate 100k?
1173 2011-01-01 20:58:43 <lfm> I was here for 100k
1174 2011-01-01 20:58:58 <slush> newsham: Premium for block founder was rejected by many ppl, sorry :)
1175 2011-01-01 20:58:58 <lfm> we did a little countdown but thats about it
1176 2011-01-01 20:59:17 <newsham> slush: no worries, i was kidding
1177 2011-01-01 21:00:03 <marioxcc> <slush> newsham: Premium for block founder was rejected by many ppl, sorry :) <- hmm, hmm :(
1178 2011-01-01 21:00:06 <slush> I know ;)
1179 2011-01-01 21:01:00 <newsham> are there any btc banks yet?
1180 2011-01-01 21:01:12 <marioxcc> newsham: i think the point of BTC is to not to need banks
1181 2011-01-01 21:01:22 <newsham> coins and banks arent mutually exclusive
1182 2011-01-01 21:01:28 <ArtForz> mybitcoin ?
1183 2011-01-01 21:01:29 <lfm> newsham just mybitcoin.com
1184 2011-01-01 21:01:35 <newsham> storage, interest, loans, lower latency transactions
1185 2011-01-01 21:01:51 <lfm> newsham just that last
1186 2011-01-01 21:02:07 <marioxcc> this is strange
1187 2011-01-01 21:02:11 <marioxcc> some days
1188 2011-01-01 21:02:21 <marioxcc> mybitcoin.com redirected to a .onion domain name
1189 2011-01-01 21:02:36 <newsham> bank could also be a good place to have identities (ie. "send $5 to newsham@mybank")
1190 2011-01-01 21:02:38 <marioxcc> I then enabled torbutton (tor always running)
1191 2011-01-01 21:02:40 <marioxcc> and got to it
1192 2011-01-01 21:02:48 <marioxcc> but most days it's just a normal IP
1193 2011-01-01 21:04:01 davout has joined
1194 2011-01-01 21:04:10 <marioxcc> newsham: could you please elaborate? :)
1195 2011-01-01 21:04:17 <davout> hi
1196 2011-01-01 21:04:29 <marioxcc> hello
1197 2011-01-01 21:04:43 <newsham> mario: on the identity part? sometimes you want a well known identity to send/receive money. like an email address via paypal.
1198 2011-01-01 21:04:54 <newsham> a btc bank could provide such an identity.
1199 2011-01-01 21:04:58 * sipa got another 5.24 BTC from slush's pool
1200 2011-01-01 21:05:07 <newsham> and allow people to transfer coins in and out from their anonymous cash stash
1201 2011-01-01 21:05:12 <sipa> all without every finding a block!
1202 2011-01-01 21:05:40 <Cusipzzz> sipa: what hashrate are you contributing?
1203 2011-01-01 21:05:49 ttttttt22 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1204 2011-01-01 21:05:54 <sipa> 99Mhash/s, when computer is on
1205 2011-01-01 21:06:00 <Cusipzzz> nice
1206 2011-01-01 21:06:05 <newsham> fast
1207 2011-01-01 21:06:34 <slush> today I celebrate my 10th block in pool :)
1208 2011-01-01 21:06:42 <TD> nice slush :) great work
1209 2011-01-01 21:06:57 <marioxcc> fine :)
1210 2011-01-01 21:07:02 <newsham> i need to find a good non-mining way to make btc
1211 2011-01-01 21:07:11 <newsham> or maybe i should just focus on $'s for now. ;-)
1212 2011-01-01 21:07:18 <TD> same :) i'm hoping i'll be able to accept donations for the android client when done
1213 2011-01-01 21:07:20 <TD> or tips or something
1214 2011-01-01 21:07:20 <marioxcc> newsham: buy them, offer a service or goods for them :)
1215 2011-01-01 21:07:30 <slush> TD: wow, are you doing on it?
1216 2011-01-01 21:07:37 <sipa> since i keep logs, i've sent 5549 shares, the best one with score 10363.6 (score defined as the difficulty it would beat)
1217 2011-01-01 21:08:29 <marioxcc> slush: do you remember my idea of the decentralized pool?
1218 2011-01-01 21:08:31 <TD> slush: i don't have much in the way of an actual UI yet but i'm getting there on the core implementation. i have some code that downloads and verifies the block chain, stores transactions and keys in a wallet, creates and signs transactions ..... working on proving binary compatibility of signed transactions with the official client ATM
1219 2011-01-01 21:08:36 <slush> marioxcc: yep
1220 2011-01-01 21:08:43 <marioxcc> i thought you could pay several directions after generation
1221 2011-01-01 21:08:52 <marioxcc> but given you need 100+ confirmations before spending a generation
1222 2011-01-01 21:08:55 <marioxcc> is that possible?
1223 2011-01-01 21:08:55 <TD> after that there's only a few more pieces of the core left to do and it'll be time to start on the android gui side
1224 2011-01-01 21:09:03 <marioxcc> (to include the payments in the same block as the generation)
1225 2011-01-01 21:09:23 <sipa> marioxcc: i've thinking about that too
1226 2011-01-01 21:09:37 <marioxcc> sipa: fine, what's your idea?
1227 2011-01-01 21:10:02 <slush> TD: Do you think full mobile implementation is good idea? a) problem with thiefs b) bandwith c) memory usage
1228 2011-01-01 21:10:23 <slush> TD: I think thin client & API for services like mybitcoin would be better...
1229 2011-01-01 21:10:28 <slush> .,..and easier ;)
1230 2011-01-01 21:10:29 <TD> i've discussed it with satoshi, we're in general agreement on how to do this. you don't have to actually store the whole block chain.
1231 2011-01-01 21:10:39 <slush> great
1232 2011-01-01 21:10:56 <TD> the problem with that approach is it introduces third party dependencies. it's ok for third party servers, etc, to enhance the experience. but it's rather un-bitcoiny to require them.
1233 2011-01-01 21:11:16 <TD> also to create transactions you need to know the previous transactions that sent you coins
1234 2011-01-01 21:11:26 <slush> marioxcc: I don't understand question. You mean my pool should pay shares directly in mined block?
1235 2011-01-01 21:11:31 <TD> unless you host your account elsewhere
1236 2011-01-01 21:11:38 <sipa> slush: you could
1237 2011-01-01 21:11:42 <TD> which just means you reinvented banking ....
1238 2011-01-01 21:12:00 <marioxcc> slush: that's a good idea but my question wasn't regarding your pool
1239 2011-01-01 21:12:01 <sipa> slush: whether it's necessary/useful/worth the effort, is up to you to decide :)
1240 2011-01-01 21:12:08 <marioxcc> just in general
1241 2011-01-01 21:12:11 <marioxcc> is it possible to do so?
1242 2011-01-01 21:12:54 <sipa> puddinpop's pool did so, i'm quite sure it's technically possible for slush's to do the same
1243 2011-01-01 21:13:28 <marioxcc> ok
1244 2011-01-01 21:13:31 <marioxcc> hmm
1245 2011-01-01 21:13:36 <marioxcc> but how do it works then?
1246 2011-01-01 21:13:44 <marioxcc> have clients to wait the 100+ confirmations to spend his payment?
1247 2011-01-01 21:13:47 <slush> sipa: Technically I don't know how to do it at this moment, because I use stock bitcoind. But I also think it isn't good think because of sub-0.01 payments AND because of performance. That mean I don't need to recalculate block for every share received
1248 2011-01-01 21:14:03 <slush> marioxcc: yes, it is technically possible
1249 2011-01-01 21:14:23 <marioxcc> ok
1250 2011-01-01 21:14:28 <slush> But puddinpop's pool have performance problems on ~150mhash (AFAIK, I didn't test it)
1251 2011-01-01 21:15:18 <slush> marioxcc: Yes, 100 confirmations are hardcoded in network. next 20 confirmations are only in client
1252 2011-01-01 21:15:50 <marioxcc> oh, haha
1253 2011-01-01 21:15:52 <marioxcc> ok
1254 2011-01-01 21:15:58 <marioxcc> hmm
1255 2011-01-01 21:16:15 <marioxcc> what happens to pays above 0.01 but not multiple of 0.01?
1256 2011-01-01 21:16:31 <marioxcc> for instance 0.02000000001?
1257 2011-01-01 21:16:34 <marioxcc> oops
1258 2011-01-01 21:16:36 <slush> a) Bitcoin client cannot handle 3rd decimal places and so
1259 2011-01-01 21:16:55 <slush> b) Many users have sub0.01 rewards for one round
1260 2011-01-01 21:17:19 <slush> and as pool will grow, it would be harder and harder have bigger reward per round for one user
1261 2011-01-01 21:17:36 <slush> so I'm fine with current implementation, I don't think it is real problem
1262 2011-01-01 21:17:54 <sipa> yes, if you use stock bitcoind, there is no way to do either sub-0.01 transfers, nor generate-to-multiple-addresses
1263 2011-01-01 21:17:59 <marioxcc> hmm, ok
1264 2011-01-01 21:18:11 <sipa> and i also don't think it's a real problem
1265 2011-01-01 21:18:15 <marioxcc> oh, sorry
1266 2011-01-01 21:18:18 <marioxcc> have to go bathrrom
1267 2011-01-01 21:21:09 <lucky> that's mostly a GUI thing
1268 2011-01-01 21:21:17 <lucky> theprotocol itself supports smaller divisions
1269 2011-01-01 21:22:18 <lucky> which actually given the current rate of valuation to the USD may need to be enabled sooner rather than later, heh.
1270 2011-01-01 21:24:27 <sipa> anyone want to do a guess when mtgox rises above $0.3 ?
1271 2011-01-01 21:24:37 <slush> MT`AwAy: Hi, I just upgraded bitcoind to 0.3.19. Could you upgrade your wiki with fallback nodes, please?
1272 2011-01-01 21:24:48 <MT`AwAy> slush: ?
1273 2011-01-01 21:25:06 <MT`AwAy> slush: the update is done automatically, every hour
1274 2011-01-01 21:25:21 <slush> MT`AwAy: Oh, didn't know that. thanks
1275 2011-01-01 21:26:13 <lucky> hi slush
1276 2011-01-01 21:26:16 <lucky> we love you :D
1277 2011-01-01 21:26:20 <slush> :)
1278 2011-01-01 21:27:00 <lucky> i don't mind the wait, it took only about 36 hours for me to get my first payment w/ pooling
1279 2011-01-01 21:33:05 <TD> slush: are you planning on open sourcing the server software?
1280 2011-01-01 21:34:26 Bth8 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1281 2011-01-01 21:35:14 <sipa> TD: i believe he's already said in a forum post that he won't
1282 2011-01-01 21:35:18 <TD> ah ok
1283 2011-01-01 21:35:57 <marioxcc> i'm back
1284 2011-01-01 21:36:24 <marioxcc> TD: i'm planning a distribued pooled mining
1285 2011-01-01 21:36:33 <marioxcc> it will be free software under the GNU GPL 3+
1286 2011-01-01 21:37:27 <sipa> marioxcc: i'm eager to know how it'll work
1287 2011-01-01 21:37:35 Bth8 has joined
1288 2011-01-01 21:38:02 <marioxcc> sipa: basically, all members
1289 2011-01-01 21:38:16 <marioxcc> will work on a block which includes payments to all other members
1290 2011-01-01 21:38:24 <marioxcc> according to their shares on the current block
1291 2011-01-01 21:38:34 <sipa> yes, ok
1292 2011-01-01 21:38:40 <marioxcc> when someone finds a PoW (which may or may not meet the actual target)
1293 2011-01-01 21:38:45 <marioxcc> it's boardcasted to the network
1294 2011-01-01 21:38:50 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1295 2011-01-01 21:38:55 <marioxcc> then it's tested and guarranted a share
1296 2011-01-01 21:39:02 <marioxcc> this is done by every other miner in the network
1297 2011-01-01 21:39:17 <marioxcc> if a leecher is working on a work solely for himself for instance
1298 2011-01-01 21:39:22 <slush> TD: not yet. And if sometimes, not fully featured. I mean: I'm not against peer review or so, but I simply don't have reason to support fragmentation of power between many pools.
1299 2011-01-01 21:39:25 <marioxcc> the PoW won't be accepted by other nodes
1300 2011-01-01 21:39:45 <marioxcc> slush: uh?
1301 2011-01-01 21:39:54 <marioxcc> free software don't means fragmentation
1302 2011-01-01 21:39:57 sgornick has joined
1303 2011-01-01 21:40:03 <sipa> no, but it enables it
1304 2011-01-01 21:40:06 <TD> slush: well, i was thinking more that the total power of the network is the most important thing, and it doesn't matter how many pools there are in that case. if anything more pools is better
1305 2011-01-01 21:40:18 <TD> right now you are a single point of failure for the bitcoin network
1306 2011-01-01 21:40:28 <lucky> failure for the network? not really.
1307 2011-01-01 21:40:29 <TD> if something happens to you or your servers, the network risks losing a big chunk of hash power and thus stability
1308 2011-01-01 21:40:31 <slush> TD: currently I have <5%. Not SPOF at all
1309 2011-01-01 21:40:32 <helmut> does someone know the current state of alternative implementations?
1310 2011-01-01 21:40:32 <marioxcc> sipa: sure, but take into account someone well could make another centralized client
1311 2011-01-01 21:40:34 <marioxcc> and publish it
1312 2011-01-01 21:40:42 <lucky> He'd just tick off the people pooling a bit.
1313 2011-01-01 21:40:46 <sipa> marioxcc: of course
1314 2011-01-01 21:41:02 <TD> yes, but imagine the pool grows in proportion to the overall network
1315 2011-01-01 21:41:28 <TD> would you feel comfortable if one guy losing interest or going somewhere else would reduce the stability of the existing banking system by <5% ?
1316 2011-01-01 21:41:59 <slush> TD: I think ArtForz is much bigger SPOF and nobody ask them for distributing his power between more users :). And I don't own pool power, I'm only hub.
1317 2011-01-01 21:42:14 <sipa> SPOF?
1318 2011-01-01 21:42:18 <helmut> single point of failure
1319 2011-01-01 21:42:30 <sipa> oh right
1320 2011-01-01 21:42:32 <TD> in a sense you do own the pools power because you can't be replaced. if you stop running the central server the pool vanishes.
1321 2011-01-01 21:42:40 <sipa> marioxcc: so basically, you could simplify it even
1322 2011-01-01 21:42:57 <TD> artforz is different - he actually can't distribute his hashing power as it's all hardware he owns and pays for the electricity of, etc.
1323 2011-01-01 21:43:00 <marioxcc> sipa: simplify what?
1324 2011-01-01 21:43:23 <helmut> TD: could you repeat the issue with pooling for me?
1325 2011-01-01 21:43:43 <TD> it's not an issue with the concept of pooling, which is great
1326 2011-01-01 21:43:49 <slush> TD: Currently it is not big issue. Still 80% of pool power are big GPU players. That means they can connect to bitcoin directly; So when I disconnect the pool, maybe 20% of 4ghash will be "lost"
1327 2011-01-01 21:44:08 <TD> yes. but will that still be true in a year.
1328 2011-01-01 21:44:24 <sipa> marioxcc: if you show me a proof of work (low difficulty), in which i am a destination for the generation, i increase my trust in you, and increase the fraction (proportionally) which you get in the shares i search
1329 2011-01-01 21:44:34 <TD> given that your scheme has a potential to "go viral" exponentially whereas big GPU players probably won't increase their hardware exponentially
1330 2011-01-01 21:44:37 <helmut> TD: if you fear pools taking over the network, then don't particiapte. if everyone thinks this way, ... :-)
1331 2011-01-01 21:44:43 <sipa> marioxcc: nobody needs to verify anything beyond whether they themselves are included in blocks by others
1332 2011-01-01 21:44:46 <TD> i don't fear that, i'd welcome it if anything
1333 2011-01-01 21:44:56 <slush> TD: we will see. Currently I enjoy running the pool, I spend most of my time on it. I promise that I will open it if I lose my interest.
1334 2011-01-01 21:44:58 <TD> basically the more people mining the better, as that means the influence of one individual is less
1335 2011-01-01 21:44:59 <sipa> marioxcc: i think that will (maybe after some time) balance out
1336 2011-01-01 21:45:01 <TD> very bitcoinish :)
1337 2011-01-01 21:45:15 <marioxcc> sipa: could you please be more specific?
1338 2011-01-01 21:45:29 <marioxcc> i appreciate your suggestions but i don't undestand what do you suggest exactly
1339 2011-01-01 21:45:43 <helmut> has there been any progress on alternative implementations during the last two weeks?
1340 2011-01-01 21:45:50 <sipa> yeah it's a bit vague for myself as well, just an intuition that it would work
1341 2011-01-01 21:45:58 <sipa> marioxcc: pm?
1342 2011-01-01 21:45:59 <edcba> don't use ISP, it weakens internet
1343 2011-01-01 21:46:19 <TD> helmut: of the core or of pooling stuff?
1344 2011-01-01 21:46:23 <helmut> TD: core
1345 2011-01-01 21:46:28 <TD> i've made progress with mine
1346 2011-01-01 21:46:30 <TD> dunno about other people
1347 2011-01-01 21:46:38 <helmut> TD: cool, please tell (or show)
1348 2011-01-01 21:48:07 <TD> showing will have to wait a bit. i intend to open source this but need approval from work
1349 2011-01-01 21:48:28 <helmut> TD: tell was an option, too. :-p
1350 2011-01-01 21:48:32 <TD> as for telling, well, i'm close to having my code create transactions and send them to the network
1351 2011-01-01 21:48:43 <helmut> that implies you can verify?
1352 2011-01-01 21:49:08 <TD> verify the block chain. i am not storing it so i am not verifying transaction inputs currently. just relying on the fact that if they are in the block chain they are already verified.
1353 2011-01-01 21:49:25 <helmut> :-(
1354 2011-01-01 21:49:33 <helmut> you skipped the hardest part
1355 2011-01-01 21:49:35 <TD> i have a wallet that stores transactions it found in the block chain given some keys, and uses those transactions to create new ones that send coins elsewhere
1356 2011-01-01 21:49:56 <TD> well i had to implement a lot of that to create transactions
1357 2011-01-01 21:50:12 <TD> it's "skipped" only because doing full verification on a phone is too resource intensive for now
1358 2011-01-01 21:50:14 <TD> i might revisit it later
1359 2011-01-01 21:50:21 <TD> some of the code exists.
1360 2011-01-01 21:50:22 <helmut> I started with verifying transactions, but it doesn't work out yet
1361 2011-01-01 21:50:36 <ThomasV> TD: what happens if your thin client talks to a rogue node ?
1362 2011-01-01 21:50:46 <helmut> ThomasV: bad things
1363 2011-01-01 21:51:10 <davout> lol
1364 2011-01-01 21:51:22 <TD> the rogue node can potentially solve a block which contains bogus transactions, eg, sending you coins that do not exist and try to fork you onto a false chain
1365 2011-01-01 21:51:23 <helmut> ThomasV: rogue node could report a new (specially crafted) block containing "bad" transactions.
1366 2011-01-01 21:51:47 <TD> the client can try and detect it's not on the right chain by seeing how fast it moves
1367 2011-01-01 21:52:02 <helmut> the simplest way to mitigate is to connect to a trusted node
1368 2011-01-01 21:52:09 <helmut> (on a trusted channel)
1369 2011-01-01 21:52:16 <TD> it knows what the difficulty should be. if the incorrect chain is moving at roughly the same speed the real chain is expected to move at, the attacker has equal hash power to the real network
1370 2011-01-01 21:52:31 <TD> and we know already bitcoin has problems when attackers are able to match the hash power of the network
1371 2011-01-01 21:52:31 <ThomasV> TD : but could a rogue node steal your coins ?
1372 2011-01-01 21:52:35 <TD> no
1373 2011-01-01 21:53:19 <helmut> I was wondering whether erlang would be a good language for implementing bitcoin
1374 2011-01-01 21:53:23 <TD> it could fork you into a "parallel universe" where you have received coins that the real world won't recognize as valid
1375 2011-01-01 21:53:31 <TD> but like i said. that attack requires a fair whack of CPU power.
1376 2011-01-01 21:53:47 <TD> and the moment you stop surrounding the client, it will reconnect to the real network and discover it got onto a forked chain
1377 2011-01-01 21:53:48 <helmut> erlang does provide easy parallelity for p2p, easy binary handling for the protocol.
1378 2011-01-01 21:53:55 <ThomasV> if you try to spend some coins, could it change the recipient ?
1379 2011-01-01 21:54:08 <helmut> ThomasV: no.
1380 2011-01-01 21:54:41 <helmut> ThomasV: all it can do is make you believe in a forked chain, which basically is DoS
1381 2011-01-01 21:54:58 <TD> well, it's potentially dangerous if you are selling real world goods for bitcoins on the forked chain
1382 2011-01-01 21:55:03 <TD> eg, if you go to somewhere to sell your car
1383 2011-01-01 21:55:17 <helmut> ThomasV: and it can make you believe you got more money than you actually have
1384 2011-01-01 21:55:21 <TD> and the buyer is malicious, they could potentially offer you bad wifi or something. then try and fork you onto a bad chain
1385 2011-01-01 21:55:30 <TD> the answer is just the same as the regular client
1386 2011-01-01 21:55:34 <TD> wait for several block verifications
1387 2011-01-01 21:55:38 <TD> like an hour maybe
1388 2011-01-01 21:55:56 <edcba> but if thin client connect to only 1 node it's a lot more open to attack
1389 2011-01-01 21:55:58 <TD> if after an hour you received 4-6 blocks and they are all valid, it means the malicious car buyer is able to keep up with the entire bitcoin network
1390 2011-01-01 21:56:02 <ThomasV> btw, why do verifications take so long ?
1391 2011-01-01 21:56:08 <TD> in which case they have enough money they probably don't need to steal your car :-)
1392 2011-01-01 21:56:15 <helmut> ThomasV: what is long?
1393 2011-01-01 21:56:28 <TD> you mean why does it take 10 minutes to get a confirmation?
1394 2011-01-01 21:56:38 <ThomasV> yes
1395 2011-01-01 21:56:54 <TD> it's an arbitrary number chosen by satoshi to balance convenience with peer-to-peer data propagation time
1396 2011-01-01 21:56:54 <helmut> the tx needs to be incorporated in a new block
1397 2011-01-01 21:57:02 <helmut> blocks are found about each 10 minutes
1398 2011-01-01 21:57:17 <TD> it could have been every 30 minutes, or 5 minutes, etc ..... of course this is just a target
1399 2011-01-01 21:57:21 <TD> actual solving time is probablistic
1400 2011-01-01 21:57:32 <helmut> you can think of a block as a commit and the chain of the transaction history
1401 2011-01-01 21:57:40 <helmut> so basically you need a commit. ;-)
1402 2011-01-01 21:57:53 <ThomasV> new tx are always incorporated to new blocks ?
1403 2011-01-01 21:58:09 <TD> yes
1404 2011-01-01 21:58:11 <helmut> unless the node finding the block is rogue, yes
1405 2011-01-01 21:58:15 <lfm> thomasv almost always
1406 2011-01-01 21:58:49 <ThomasV> so, if mining stops transactions stop ?
1407 2011-01-01 21:58:57 <TD> yes
1408 2011-01-01 21:59:01 <TD> well
1409 2011-01-01 21:59:04 <lfm> thomasv confirmations stop ya
1410 2011-01-01 21:59:08 <TD> "mining" is a side effect of block generation
1411 2011-01-01 21:59:12 <helmut> which boils down to the same
1412 2011-01-01 21:59:29 <helmut> any erlang guy around?
1413 2011-01-01 21:59:30 <edcba> (mining is block generation i'd say)
1414 2011-01-01 22:00:01 <edcba> maybe on #erlang...
1415 2011-01-01 22:00:39 <helmut> edcba: well the erlang buys on #erlang are not that interested in bitcoin unfortunately
1416 2011-01-01 22:00:59 <davout> basically mining stopping = block gen stopping = timestamping transactions stopping
1417 2011-01-01 22:01:00 <helmut> s/buys/guys/ lol
1418 2011-01-01 22:01:25 <edcba> i don't see why you would need to know bitcoin to awnser an erlang question
1419 2011-01-01 22:01:32 <lfm> helmut well maybe ask general questions about bitcoin here. we dont know erlang tho
1420 2011-01-01 22:01:36 <ThomasV> and if we have 3 billion transactions in an interval of 10 minutes, they will need to be added to the same block ?
1421 2011-01-01 22:01:54 <helmut> edcba: the question would be: anyone interested in bootstraping an erlang bitcoin client with me?
1422 2011-01-01 22:02:26 <edcba> ok i see
1423 2011-01-01 22:02:36 <lfm> thomasv I think current clients limit blocks to 200-300 txn or so but that is flexable for the future
1424 2011-01-01 22:02:41 <edcba> could have ask that question directly...
1425 2011-01-01 22:02:48 <helmut> edcba: I did
1426 2011-01-01 22:03:00 <helmut> edcba: at least on #erlang ;-)
1427 2011-01-01 22:03:08 <lfm> helmut nope
1428 2011-01-01 22:03:27 <lfm> helmut seems like you're on your own
1429 2011-01-01 22:03:42 <davout> miners decide what txns they feel like including
1430 2011-01-01 22:03:57 <davout> i'm not really up to date on that but i think theres a block size limit
1431 2011-01-01 22:04:24 <helmut> lfm: I won't make it then. (cause I know I will not be able to finish this alone and a half baked client is worth nothing)
1432 2011-01-01 22:04:57 <davout> also they don't need to get in a block right now, they just aren't reliably timestamped until they do get in, and if they're not timestamped double spending check is kinda moot
1433 2011-01-01 22:05:13 <helmut> miners limit the size of transactions (in bytes) and charge a transaction fee with growing size.
1434 2011-01-01 22:06:10 <helmut> (well this "charging" is only a reject of the transaction which is too big. the client creating the transaction has to provide the fee)
1435 2011-01-01 22:07:59 <TD> the current limit is 500kb
1436 2011-01-01 22:08:10 <TD> so yeah, between 500 and 1000 transactions
1437 2011-01-01 22:08:14 <TD> depending on their complexity
1438 2011-01-01 22:09:12 acous has joined
1439 2011-01-01 22:09:12 acous has quit (Changing host)
1440 2011-01-01 22:09:12 acous has joined
1441 2011-01-01 22:12:38 <marioxcc> what's has been the performance hit of the puddinpop required metahashing?
1442 2011-01-01 22:15:36 <ThomasV> err, I have another question. what's going on with the 1FFHATEip... address in this block :
1443 2011-01-01 22:15:39 <ThomasV> http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000003b93078d667030f840ec886bfd77eeeb8beba0ca3d6871d99ccf0
1444 2011-01-01 22:16:10 <ThomasV> it's there twice
1445 2011-01-01 22:16:52 <TD> so?
1446 2011-01-01 22:16:54 <lfm> addresses can be used in multiple transactions no problem
1447 2011-01-01 22:17:00 <marioxcc> ThomasV: he just made 2 transactions
1448 2011-01-01 22:17:01 <TD> it's not illegal to send multiple transactions in one block
1449 2011-01-01 22:17:06 <marioxcc> nothing bad with that
1450 2011-01-01 22:19:18 <ThomasV> yes but this address is not in the outputs of the transactions
1451 2011-01-01 22:19:45 <lfm> the address is a referance to a previous output used as input here
1452 2011-01-01 22:22:17 davout has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1453 2011-01-01 22:23:50 <ThomasV> you mean that output and inputs do not have the same format ? inputs are references to outputs ?
1454 2011-01-01 22:24:04 <TD> yes, inputs are connected to the outputs of some other transactions
1455 2011-01-01 22:24:19 <TD> click on the transaction id
1456 2011-01-01 22:24:32 <TD> in the inputs table you can see the previous output reference
1457 2011-01-01 22:24:43 <ThomasV> I see
1458 2011-01-01 22:24:44 <TD> as a tx_hash:output_index pair
1459 2011-01-01 22:27:49 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
1460 2011-01-01 22:27:57 darrob has joined
1461 2011-01-01 22:30:04 <lfm> its why we refer to chains of transactions and the block chain which allow auditing the values
1462 2011-01-01 22:32:15 <TD> helmut: do you have any code that decodes the openssl asn private key format?
1463 2011-01-01 22:35:36 <TD> i guess i can parse out the asn.1 with bouncy castle. sigh.
1464 2011-01-01 22:39:27 davout has joined
1465 2011-01-01 22:42:20 <cervanto> sup
1466 2011-01-01 22:44:43 <helmut> TD: I have not yet worked with private keys at all
1467 2011-01-01 22:44:43 davout has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1468 2011-01-01 22:44:46 <TD> ok
1469 2011-01-01 22:44:56 <TD> the openssl code is horrible
1470 2011-01-01 22:45:03 <helmut> my aim was more like verification first
1471 2011-01-01 22:45:09 <TD> it terrifies me that this stuff is the gold standard for security ...
1472 2011-01-01 22:45:15 <marioxcc> it is not
1473 2011-01-01 22:45:20 <marioxcc> it's just an implementation for
1474 2011-01-01 22:45:23 <helmut> have you seen gnupg code?
1475 2011-01-01 22:45:25 <marioxcc> there are others
1476 2011-01-01 22:45:27 davout has joined
1477 2011-01-01 22:45:29 <TD> no
1478 2011-01-01 22:45:33 <TD> how is it?
1479 2011-01-01 22:45:35 <helmut> then better don't
1480 2011-01-01 22:45:39 <helmut> (at least if you use it)
1481 2011-01-01 22:46:21 * helmut senses TD looking into gnupg source
1482 2011-01-01 22:46:47 <TD> heh
1483 2011-01-01 22:46:49 <TD> i'll pass
1484 2011-01-01 22:46:58 <helmut> did I mention that I found two bugs in gnupg just by fuzzing it?
1485 2011-01-01 22:47:29 tfoote has joined
1486 2011-01-01 22:48:10 <helmut> (bugs in signature verification, a task which likely exposes untrusted data)
1487 2011-01-01 22:48:49 <helmut> I hope I did not destroy your trust completely, since I fear there is no suitable alternative. :-/
1488 2011-01-01 22:49:24 davout has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1489 2011-01-01 22:49:28 davout has joined
1490 2011-01-01 22:51:46 <TD> there we go
1491 2011-01-01 22:51:50 <TD> helmut: oh brilliant
1492 2011-01-01 22:51:57 <TD> well, i'm not volunteering to write a crypto lib ...
1493 2011-01-01 22:52:02 <TD> bouncy castle is not too bad
1494 2011-01-01 22:52:10 <TD> though like all great crypto code it has basically no comments
1495 2011-01-01 22:55:19 <lfm> so if it was commented it wouldnt be "great" any more? grin
1496 2011-01-01 22:57:16 james has joined
1497 2011-01-01 22:57:42 james is now known as Guest28095
1498 2011-01-01 22:57:43 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 1000
1499 2011-01-01 22:57:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 14484.16236123 , is 1 year, 50 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 16 minutes, and 43 seconds
1500 2011-01-01 23:03:41 <lfm> thomasv I figure the average time between transactions for bitcoin values is just under 13 days
1501 2011-01-01 23:03:56 <TD> there we go
1502 2011-01-01 23:05:08 <ThomasV> lfm: how did you get to this result ?
1503 2011-01-01 23:06:52 <lfm> for each txn input i extracted the value and the time since the input transaction. then I totaled up the values and als got a total of val times times since the prevous use. finally divide the total of products by the total coins
1504 2011-01-01 23:08:30 <ThomasV> so you did not weight by the amount exchanged during transactions ?
1505 2011-01-01 23:08:52 <lfm> it is weighted by the values yes
1506 2011-01-01 23:09:27 <lfm> value == amount
1507 2011-01-01 23:09:35 <sipa> blocks have a timestamp field
1508 2011-01-01 23:09:41 <sipa> how "recent" should that be?
1509 2011-01-01 23:09:50 <sipa> as in: will it be rejected if it's too old?
1510 2011-01-01 23:10:06 <ThomasV> ok
1511 2011-01-01 23:10:10 <sipa> even if it builds on the correct previous hash?
1512 2011-01-01 23:10:16 <lfm> the age is the timestamp of the block minus the timestamp of the block refed by the input
1513 2011-01-01 23:10:42 <TD> helmut: got it, let me know if you want to know about how private keys are stored in the wallet in future
1514 2011-01-01 23:12:16 <sipa> lfm: ?
1515 2011-01-01 23:12:44 <lfm> never too old
1516 2011-01-01 23:13:04 <lfm> max age is like two years
1517 2011-01-01 23:13:57 <ThomasV> if an input is older than 2 years it will be rejected ?
1518 2011-01-01 23:14:35 <lfm> never rejected. if the input is not found then it wouldnt get into the blcok chain in the first place
1519 2011-01-01 23:15:20 <lfm> you understand I am just reading the block chain data
1520 2011-01-01 23:16:08 james_ has joined
1521 2011-01-01 23:16:13 <lfm> bitcoin started Jan 6 2009
1522 2011-01-01 23:16:23 Guest28095 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1523 2011-01-01 23:17:05 <ThomasV> yeah I just misunderstood your statement ("max age...")
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1527 2011-01-01 23:34:11 <helmut> TD: thanks. I was hoping to never mess with bitcoin's (implementation) internals apart from the protocol
1528 2011-01-01 23:34:28 <helmut> TD: so storage of private keys should be my own matter (as I do not wish to make them exportable to bitcoin)
1529 2011-01-01 23:34:32 <TD> unfortunately they are deeply intertwingled :)
1530 2011-01-01 23:34:33 <TD> yeah
1531 2011-01-01 23:34:34 <TD> i thought that too
1532 2011-01-01 23:34:46 <TD> i wanted to prove that the transactions i create are identical to the ones the official client creates
1533 2011-01-01 23:34:56 <TD> that means i need to import a private key for use in the unit tests :) done it now
1534 2011-01-01 23:34:59 <TD> wasn't that hard actually
1535 2011-01-01 23:35:07 <TD> of course .... i say that, but my signatures do not match :-)
1536 2011-01-01 23:35:13 maazu has joined
1537 2011-01-01 23:35:27 <helmut> heh
1538 2011-01-01 23:35:45 <TD> though oddly the first few bytes do
1539 2011-01-01 23:35:54 <TD> undoubtably the tricky transaction manipulation before hashing it is wrong
1540 2011-01-01 23:36:19 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1541 2011-01-01 23:38:51 <TD> oh right
1542 2011-01-01 23:38:58 <TD> of course. the first few bytes will be DER headers
1543 2011-01-01 23:39:04 <TD> time to dig in ...
1544 2011-01-01 23:46:22 james_ has joined
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1546 2011-01-01 23:57:17 <MacRohard> anyone know if 'The Madhatter' uses irc and/or what his nick might be?
1547 2011-01-01 23:57:46 grondilu has joined
1548 2011-01-01 23:58:22 * grondilu failed to run something like "$ bitcoind backupwallet >(foo)"
1549 2011-01-01 23:58:55 noagendamarket has joined
1550 2011-01-01 23:59:49 * grondilu got something like "error: {"code":-1,"message":"boost::filesystem::copy_file: No such file or directory: \"/home/grondilu/.bitcoin/wallet.dat\", \"/dev/fd/63\""}"