1 2011-01-04 00:00:03 <luke-jr> or -100
2 2011-01-04 00:00:07 <slush> Try it :)
3 2011-01-04 00:00:08 <Sami345> yeah
4 2011-01-04 00:00:15 <luke-jr> probably cuss you out
5 2011-01-04 00:00:52 <Sami345> Select a valid choice. -100 is not one of the available choices
6 2011-01-04 00:00:58 <luke-jr> lol
7 2011-01-04 00:01:05 <marioxcc> sipa: any advances to the decentraliced P2P miner pool?
8 2011-01-04 00:01:18 <sipa> marioxcc: no, had to work today
9 2011-01-04 00:01:26 <luke-jr> nuts, I wanted to donate Ï% :P
10 2011-01-04 00:01:38 <sipa> luke-jr: try i%
11 2011-01-04 00:01:39 <marioxcc> sipa: np, thanks for all ideas you gave
12 2011-01-04 00:02:00 <marioxcc> project planning starts this week
13 2011-01-04 00:02:11 <luke-jr> hey guys
14 2011-01-04 00:02:16 <luke-jr> up for an IRC game?
15 2011-01-04 00:02:27 <marioxcc> luke-jr: will it flood the channel?
16 2011-01-04 00:02:33 <luke-jr> marioxcc: the other channel
17 2011-01-04 00:02:46 <luke-jr> #yandere
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20 2011-01-04 00:06:28 <sipa> slush: there is an invalid block in the list, correct?
21 2011-01-04 00:06:48 <slush> my fault, sorry :)
22 2011-01-04 00:06:56 <slush> working on it
23 2011-01-04 00:07:00 <sipa> the link next to it, is to the actual block 100798
24 2011-01-04 00:07:02 <luke-jr> wtf? invalid?
25 2011-01-04 00:07:27 <sipa> not the one that came from the pool, i suppose
26 2011-01-04 00:07:51 <sipa> oh
27 2011-01-04 00:07:51 <da2ce7> I'm still getting about 1% invalid or stale, is that when your site goes down?
28 2011-01-04 00:08:02 <luke-jr> I earned 0.0333 on that block!
29 2011-01-04 00:08:19 <sipa> da2ce7: it's when you submit a hash for a block that's already outdated
30 2011-01-04 00:08:46 <sipa> which client are you using
31 2011-01-04 00:08:48 <sipa> ?
32 2011-01-04 00:09:15 <sipa> marioxcc: keep me posted btw about it
33 2011-01-04 00:09:19 <luke-jr> the only one?
34 2011-01-04 00:09:36 <sipa> only one what?
35 2011-01-04 00:09:42 <luke-jr> client
36 2011-01-04 00:09:50 <sipa> s/client/miner/
37 2011-01-04 00:09:51 <da2ce7> I'm useing poclbm_py2exe_20101228
38 2011-01-04 00:10:05 <sipa> da2ce7: what askrate?
39 2011-01-04 00:10:09 <marioxcc> sipa: if you mean the P2P miner, yes, for sure :)
40 2011-01-04 00:10:15 <marioxcc> hmm
41 2011-01-04 00:10:16 <sipa> marioxcc: i do
42 2011-01-04 00:10:18 <marioxcc> any suggestion for the name?
43 2011-01-04 00:10:28 <marioxcc> i do suck at names
44 2011-01-04 00:10:52 <sipa> dimp
45 2011-01-04 00:11:05 <sipa> DIstributed Mining Pool?
46 2011-01-04 00:11:05 <slush> sorry for troubles with invalid block, rewards were sent now
47 2011-01-04 00:11:23 <marioxcc> dim sounds good
48 2011-01-04 00:11:25 <da2ce7> default, so should be 5sec
49 2011-01-04 00:11:25 <marioxcc> *dimp
50 2011-01-04 00:12:36 <da2ce7> the last group of 'invalid or stale' happend just over 1 hour ago.
51 2011-01-04 00:12:48 <sipa> more than enough
52 2011-01-04 00:18:39 <luke-jr> slush: HEY I didn't get my whole reward?
53 2011-01-04 00:18:50 <luke-jr> or maybe Confirmed reward hides what has been sent :x
54 2011-01-04 00:19:21 <slush> luke-jr: what do you mean?
55 2011-01-04 00:19:40 <luke-jr> supposed to have 0.377
56 2011-01-04 00:19:44 <luke-jr> only got 0.007
57 2011-01-04 00:19:51 <slush> check your wallet
58 2011-01-04 00:19:53 <slush> :-P
59 2011-01-04 00:19:59 <luke-jr> nothing there
60 2011-01-04 00:22:20 <slush> system sent you 0.03BTC at 00:07 UTC
61 2011-01-04 00:22:40 <slush> didn't you miss one decimal place?:)
62 2011-01-04 00:23:04 <jackmcbarn> what block are we on right now?
63 2011-01-04 00:23:04 <luke-jr> ?
64 2011-01-04 00:23:28 <marioxcc> jackmcbarn: 100925
65 2011-01-04 00:23:31 <luke-jr> slush: blockexplorer says otherwise
66 2011-01-04 00:23:33 <jackmcbarn> ty
67 2011-01-04 00:23:42 * LobsterMan slaps slush around with a heavy metal pole
68 2011-01-04 00:23:43 * bitbot starts headbanging
69 2011-01-04 00:23:46 <LobsterMan> what happen 2 servar
70 2011-01-04 00:24:06 <LobsterMan> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
71 2011-01-04 00:24:24 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: it was vandalized by Elvis
72 2011-01-04 00:24:34 <LobsterMan> <______<
73 2011-01-04 00:24:49 <sipa> stolen by martians i tell you
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76 2011-01-04 00:26:44 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ping
77 2011-01-04 00:26:47 <EvanR> ;;bc,difficulty
78 2011-01-04 00:26:47 <gribble> Error: "bc,difficulty" is not a valid command.
79 2011-01-04 00:26:53 <tcatm> gavinandresen: pong
80 2011-01-04 00:26:57 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
81 2011-01-04 00:26:58 <gribble> 16307.48285682
82 2011-01-04 00:27:08 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I just commited a jsonp patch to my git repo
83 2011-01-04 00:27:28 <EvanR> ;;bc,calc 1000
84 2011-01-04 00:27:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 2 years, 11 weeks, 3 days, 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 5 seconds
85 2011-01-04 00:27:40 <EvanR> yay for more difficulty \o/
86 2011-01-04 00:27:42 <marioxcc> can you think of a proper way to refer to bitcoins?
87 2011-01-04 00:27:50 <sipa> ?
88 2011-01-04 00:28:01 <EvanR> Bitcoins
89 2011-01-04 00:28:05 <marioxcc> "electroinic" money is misleading, they are indepednent of the phisical implementation of the computers they run on
90 2011-01-04 00:28:18 <sipa> virtual currency
91 2011-01-04 00:28:21 <EvanR> peer to peer money
92 2011-01-04 00:28:31 <marioxcc> i like peer to peer money :)
93 2011-01-04 00:28:35 <luke-jr> crypto currency
94 2011-01-04 00:28:44 <sipa> peer-to-peer cryptocurrency
95 2011-01-04 00:28:45 <marioxcc> another good option :)
96 2011-01-04 00:28:45 <sipa> :p
97 2011-01-04 00:29:04 <marioxcc> virtual currency is worser, will lead people to think they're not real money
98 2011-01-04 00:29:08 <sipa> bitcoin.org says P2P Virtual Currency
99 2011-01-04 00:29:08 <slush> how can I list last transactions from bitcoind?
100 2011-01-04 00:29:31 <gavinandresen> slush: you need latest-from-git, and just call listtransactions with no arguments.
101 2011-01-04 00:29:32 <EvanR> network peer to peer crypto virtual electronic internet online
102 2011-01-04 00:29:37 <EvanR> money
103 2011-01-04 00:29:39 <gavinandresen> (that'll give you last 10)
104 2011-01-04 00:30:05 <sipa> independent peer-to-peer cryptocurrency
105 2011-01-04 00:30:07 <EvanR> intellectual currency
106 2011-01-04 00:30:24 <slush> but there's another possibility to do it with 0.3.19 somehow. Somebody already told me here, but I forgot it again :(
107 2011-01-04 00:30:46 <marioxcc> PtP cryptocurrency if fine i think
108 2011-01-04 00:30:54 <marioxcc> intellectual currency, duh?
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110 2011-01-04 00:31:07 <EvanR> i dont know if crypto is good for PR
111 2011-01-04 00:31:08 <tcatm> gavinandresen: great! I already wrote some code, let's see if it works with your JSONP
112 2011-01-04 00:31:09 <fabianhjr> Sorry marioxcc was without internet access all this time.
113 2011-01-04 00:31:16 <fabianhjr> Stupid telmex. ):
114 2011-01-04 00:31:22 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: no problem :)
115 2011-01-04 00:32:03 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I ran across CORS (cross origin resource sharing) when looking into JSONP... you ever tried/used CORS?
116 2011-01-04 00:32:40 <tcatm> gavinandresen: no, haven't done any cross origin JS before
117 2011-01-04 00:33:29 <gavinandresen> tcatm: OK. JSONP code is: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/jsonp
118 2011-01-04 00:34:50 <nanotube> lucky: hey, you see that? latest from git, listtransactions with no args, gives you last 10 tx
119 2011-01-04 00:37:01 <tcatm> gavinandresen: mhm, I get a 500 Interval Server Error. How should I pass the method (e.g. getbalance) and params?
120 2011-01-04 00:37:48 <davout> why the fuck did github decide to die just before i want to deploy my brand new order book
121 2011-01-04 00:38:04 <gavinandresen> tcatm: crap...
122 2011-01-04 00:38:48 <luke-jr> davout: cuz github is for lusers
123 2011-01-04 00:38:50 <gavinandresen> tcatm: lemme think about what JSONP is actually trying to do....
124 2011-01-04 00:38:56 <luke-jr> marioxcc: http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/keyboard/dvorak-tonal.png
125 2011-01-04 00:39:29 <tcatm> gavinandresen: passing everything with GET (like ?callback=foo&method=sendtoaddress¶ms=13Wy....)
126 2011-01-04 00:39:52 <gavinandresen> tcatm: yeah, and bitcoin only understands POST right now.
127 2011-01-04 00:40:04 <gavinandresen> (and I only hacked it to understand callback=....)
128 2011-01-04 00:40:14 <gavinandresen> tcatm: Ok, more work for me to do.
129 2011-01-04 00:40:19 <davout> brand new order book available at bitcoin-central.net
130 2011-01-04 00:40:25 <davout> comments more than welcome
131 2011-01-04 00:40:36 <tcatm> gavinandresen: Not a big problem. Just accept a method=STRING and params=JSON?
132 2011-01-04 00:41:16 <nanotube> davout: see my comments on -otc ? :)
133 2011-01-04 00:41:19 <gavinandresen> tcatm: Probably... although the JSON will be urlencoded.... I think....
134 2011-01-04 00:41:38 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
135 2011-01-04 00:41:57 <tcatm> gavinandresen: yep
136 2011-01-04 00:42:11 * gavinandresen wonders if boost has a urldecode...
137 2011-01-04 00:43:09 darrob has joined
138 2011-01-04 00:43:55 <tcatm> Mhm. It's a little bit more complicated. I just tried to pass a params JSON with jQuery...
139 2011-01-04 00:44:33 Slix` has joined
140 2011-01-04 00:47:49 <tcatm> gavinandresen: sendfrom "" 13Wy.... 1.23 is sent as ?callback=jsonp1294101829049&method=sendfrom¶ms%5B%5D=¶ms%5B%5D=13Wy....¶ms%5B%5D=1.23
141 2011-01-04 00:49:51 <gavinandresen> tcatm: happy happy joy joy.... OK, that makes sense. Wish it was params=%5B"",13wY...,1.23%5D, but I can deal with params[]=¶ms=[]....
142 2011-01-04 00:50:26 <gavinandresen> (maybe not this late in the day, though...)
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182 2011-01-04 02:33:30 <luke-jr> why do some blocks take 8 mins, and others 8 hours?
183 2011-01-04 02:34:23 <theymos> It's random chance, like entering a lottery a million times a secnod.
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189 2011-01-04 02:48:16 <Sami345> Does anybody know what port and protocol (TCP/UDP) Bitcoin uses?
190 2011-01-04 02:48:32 <theymos> TCP 8333
191 2011-01-04 02:49:14 <luke-jr> does it support UPnP? :p
192 2011-01-04 02:49:22 james__ has joined
193 2011-01-04 02:49:24 <MT`AwAy> no
194 2011-01-04 02:49:28 <luke-jr> lame
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196 2011-01-04 02:52:48 <Sami345> what is this "MIT license"
197 2011-01-04 02:52:57 <luke-jr> Sami345: â¦
198 2011-01-04 02:53:05 <luke-jr> everyone knows MIT = BSD
199 2011-01-04 02:53:16 <theymos> ;;wp mit license
200 2011-01-04 02:53:17 <gribble> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License | The MIT License is a free software license originating at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). It is a permissive license, meaning that it ...
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210 2011-01-04 03:43:48 <CyanDynamo> http://imgur.com/8KcwZ
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220 2011-01-04 04:09:16 <fabianhjr> slush: the 6 Ghashes/sec
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222 2011-01-04 04:23:14 <fabianhjr> :) The powa is unlimted!
223 2011-01-04 04:23:24 <nanotube> ;;bc,poolstats
224 2011-01-04 04:23:25 <gribble> {"hashes_ps": 6226277773, "shares": 9649, "active_workers": 138, "round_duration": "1:50:56", "round_started": "2011-01-04 02:29:30", "getwork_ps": 41.899999999999999}
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228 2011-01-04 04:26:41 <fabianhjr> nanotube: I am giving aways BTC to my friends and already got like 3 people to use Bitcoin.
229 2011-01-04 04:28:57 <fabianhjr> Now I am asking a videogame lover to write a review of his favourite game for 5 BTC and he got exited. He never thought he was going to get paid to play Videogames xD
230 2011-01-04 04:28:59 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: need another friend?
231 2011-01-04 04:29:22 <fabianhjr> Cusipzzz: lol, no. Just physical ones. I assite them getting the client installed and all.
232 2011-01-04 04:29:50 <Cusipzzz> i can assure you those BTCs would find a warm and loving home..not be mistreated
233 2011-01-04 04:30:44 <Cusipzzz> ah well.
234 2011-01-04 04:33:14 <fabianhjr> BRB Dinner
235 2011-01-04 04:33:30 <nanotube> hehe
236 2011-01-04 04:33:33 <nanotube> good job fabianhjr :)
237 2011-01-04 04:34:14 <fabianhjr> nanotube: I will need a plagarism checking service though. :P
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240 2011-01-04 04:35:08 <nanotube> fabianhjr: it's called google :)
241 2011-01-04 04:45:08 <fabianhjr> nanotube: how do you distribute your coins?
242 2011-01-04 04:45:32 <fabianhjr> I do 50 % saving 25 % Spending and 25% investing
243 2011-01-04 04:45:37 <mizerydearia> Are there any users here that participate in any popular ugc (user-generated content) sites?
244 2011-01-04 04:45:55 <fabianhjr> kiba does art. :)
245 2011-01-04 04:46:21 <mizerydearia> s/par/actively par/
246 2011-01-04 04:46:49 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: why do you ask?
247 2011-01-04 04:47:22 <mizerydearia> I am contemplating how to implement a similar site, but one that rewards users that submit content by paying them if the content they submitted is popular.
248 2011-01-04 04:47:28 <mizerydearia> Not how...
249 2011-01-04 04:47:37 <kiba> mizerydearia: focus on your current project
250 2011-01-04 04:47:44 <kiba> you have pizza4BTC right?
251 2011-01-04 04:47:46 <kiba> finish that
252 2011-01-04 04:47:48 <mizerydearia> Not how as in code, but how as in if the site will be useful for or accepted by users
253 2011-01-04 04:47:56 <mizerydearia> kiba: >_<
254 2011-01-04 04:48:31 <mizerydearia> The site will make use of bitcoin to handle payments.
255 2011-01-04 04:50:10 <nanotube> fabianhjr: i trade in the markets. :)
256 2011-01-04 04:50:20 <fabianhjr> xD
257 2011-01-04 04:50:21 <mizerydearia> I was thinking, offer a way for users to buy points that they can then use to vote on content. And for content that is popular to direct the funds making that content popular back to the user that submitted the content.
258 2011-01-04 04:50:49 <mizerydearia> However, I am not sure if the idea seems like something that would attract users.
259 2011-01-04 04:51:34 <fabianhjr> O maldito Telmex
260 2011-01-04 04:53:15 <nanotube> mizerydearia: i think it's definitely worth a try. :)
261 2011-01-04 04:55:42 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: I can help you code if you want.
262 2011-01-04 04:55:48 <fabianhjr> :D Just saying. :)
263 2011-01-04 04:55:58 <mizerydearia> re: pizza4btc, I will get back to working on that project soon. I'll keep you updated ^_^
264 2011-01-04 04:56:37 <theymos> mizerydearia: I don't think a "donation facilitator" site would be really succesful. The voters need to get something out of it, too.
265 2011-01-04 04:56:51 <mizerydearia> Well, the coding isn't an issue, however, the direction for the site is of my primary concern.
266 2011-01-04 04:57:29 <mizerydearia> theymos, Well, take existing sites for example. Do voters get anything out of upvoting/downvoting? Even though it doesn't cost anything to do so, I do not see any rewards.
267 2011-01-04 04:58:03 <nanotube> theymos: it would be a way to filter out crap, and keep good stuff in.
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269 2011-01-04 04:58:16 <mizerydearia> The rewards usually go to the content gaining more and more popularity as content should.
270 2011-01-04 04:58:20 <nanotube> theymos: if it costs points to post... and you lose points when you get downvoted... crap is kept out.
271 2011-01-04 04:58:26 <mizerydearia> My idea is to reward users that submit popular content.
272 2011-01-04 04:58:38 <mizerydearia> e.g. if you are the first to submit this new idea that is popular, you will be rewarded.
273 2011-01-04 04:58:49 <mizerydearia> s/is/will be/
274 2011-01-04 04:59:15 <mizerydearia> Actually, as the site functions now, posting content is free and doesn't cost anything.
275 2011-01-04 04:59:40 <mizerydearia> However, if it helps to weed out crap posts I can have a minimal cost such as 0.01btc.
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278 2011-01-04 05:02:20 <theymos> I personally have no interest in paying to vote unless I get something in return -- maybe not monetary rewards, but something. How about voters get rewarded if the submissions they vote on become popular? They more of a reward if they vote on a submission while it has fewer votes. This would promote correct popularity ordering.
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280 2011-01-04 05:02:35 <mizerydearia> mm
281 2011-01-04 05:02:47 <mizerydearia> that would be interesting.
282 2011-01-04 05:02:48 <Animeking> jesus, I know this is to be expected but the GPU miner has risen my GPU temp to 81 degrees celscius D:
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286 2011-01-04 05:03:54 <theymos> Clearly in a system where voters get paid, most people lose, but the *prospect* of a real reward is enough. And you can give even the losers imaginary points/"achievements" for participating.
287 2011-01-04 05:04:04 <mizerydearia> theymos, that is good idea, rewarding users that upvote, to receive a share of the profits as the content continues to receive more upvotes.
288 2011-01-04 05:04:45 <mizerydearia> However, the calculation to determine the appropriate share will be interesting to determine.
289 2011-01-04 05:04:55 <mizerydearia> s/determine.$//
290 2011-01-04 05:04:57 <kiba> wdoesn't that encourage only stuff that appeal to a wide range people?
291 2011-01-04 05:05:12 <kiba> range audience
292 2011-01-04 05:10:09 Remmy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
293 2011-01-04 05:10:26 <theymos> For every vote, send the vote cost to everyone who voted previously (with some curve). The submitter would be considered just the first voter. Submitters/voters on niche topics might get even more of a reward, since the new votes will be shared with fewer people.
294 2011-01-04 05:11:25 <theymos> Maybe this is too pyramid-scheme-like to be legal, though.
295 2011-01-04 05:11:45 <nanotube> mizerydearia: i like theymos idea :)
296 2011-01-04 05:11:56 <nanotube> Animeking: rev up your fan
297 2011-01-04 05:11:59 <nanotube> (if it's not already)
298 2011-01-04 05:12:07 <Animeking> at 100% already
299 2011-01-04 05:12:21 <Animeking> :/ I wonder if this could damage my GPU if it doesn't rest
300 2011-01-04 05:13:59 <fabianhjr> Good night
301 2011-01-04 05:14:42 xelister has joined
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303 2011-01-04 05:17:01 <nanotube> fabianhjr: o/
304 2011-01-04 05:17:10 <fabianhjr> hehe?
305 2011-01-04 05:17:13 <nanotube> Animeking: it could... so maybe you can clock it down a bit or something.
306 2011-01-04 05:17:39 <Animeking> I think I'll give it a rest after I get my 50 BC ._.
307 2011-01-04 05:19:10 fabianhjr has left ()
308 2011-01-04 05:20:38 <EvanR> Animeking: how long will that take?
309 2011-01-04 05:21:00 <Animeking> 55 more blocks for maturity
310 2011-01-04 05:21:05 <Animeking> and supposedly
311 2011-01-04 05:21:08 <Animeking> 7 blocks per hour
312 2011-01-04 05:22:45 <nanotube> you could script a crontab job to run the miner for 10 min at a time, then kill it for 10 min for rest, or something.
313 2011-01-04 05:22:52 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
314 2011-01-04 05:22:55 <nanotube> but better to just try improving airflow in your case somehow.
315 2011-01-04 05:23:02 <nanotube> maybe open the case and point a deskfan at it.
316 2011-01-04 05:23:24 <xelister> nanotube: or just change the miner code to od that
317 2011-01-04 05:23:29 Slix` has joined
318 2011-01-04 05:24:31 <xelister> nanotube: pid=`pidof minerfoo` or similar, and then while true ; do echo "." && kill -p $pid -s SIGSTOP ; sleep 10 ; kill -p $pid -s SIGCONT ; done or something in this direction (this is a draft)
319 2011-01-04 05:24:53 <xelister> pausing 1 second each 9 sec should be better for temp, then all the dickery around with cron
320 2011-01-04 05:25:55 <nanotube> mm yea
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325 2011-01-04 05:39:40 * midnightmagic_ waves!
326 2011-01-04 05:39:46 <midnightmagic_> ;;bc,stats
327 2011-01-04 05:39:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 100950 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 1865 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 11 hours, 26 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17050.43295989
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330 2011-01-04 05:49:04 <joe_1> how do i see who sent me coins
331 2011-01-04 05:50:44 midnightmagic has joined
332 2011-01-04 05:52:00 midnightmagic has quit (Client Quit)
333 2011-01-04 05:54:27 <afed> joe_1: blockexplorer.com
334 2011-01-04 05:57:25 midnightmagic has joined
335 2011-01-04 06:00:06 <joe_1> second question, if i want to send coins back to someone that sent them to me, will it work even if payment was sent by mybitcoin.com or another major bitcoin transmitter?
336 2011-01-04 06:00:22 <nanotube> joe_1: no
337 2011-01-04 06:00:28 <nanotube> you have to ask the sender for an address to send back to.
338 2011-01-04 06:01:30 <joe_1> ok
339 2011-01-04 06:01:43 <joe_1> but if it was sent from a bitcoin client, then afed's method will work without communicating with the sender?
340 2011-01-04 06:02:02 <nanotube> yes... because the source address(es) will be present in the wallet.
341 2011-01-04 06:02:51 <nanotube> but (a) you can't know whether something was sent to you via client, or with a processor. and (b) those source addresses even if from a client, will probably be labeled as something entirely unrelated to you, so when they receive your refund, they won't know wtf happened.
342 2011-01-04 06:04:39 <joe_1> good point
343 2011-01-04 06:04:47 <joe_1> that reminds me i don't like how the client forces you to name new addresses
344 2011-01-04 06:07:54 ArtForz has joined
345 2011-01-04 06:09:13 <nanotube> mmm does it...? you can just leave the label field blank
346 2011-01-04 06:09:31 <midnightmagic_> \o ArtForz
347 2011-01-04 06:15:36 <joe_1> oh
348 2011-01-04 06:21:19 <afed> my daddy was a miner and i'm a miner's son
349 2011-01-04 06:21:30 <afed> and i'll stick with the union 'til every battle's won
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366 2011-01-04 08:01:26 <joe_1> is there a way to get western union for bitcoins
367 2011-01-04 08:03:14 larsig has joined
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369 2011-01-04 08:17:36 amiga4000 is now known as Amiga4000
370 2011-01-04 08:20:18 <midnightmagic_> joe_1: Sure! Offer to send someone bitcoins in exchange for a western union transfer! :-)
371 2011-01-04 08:22:09 <midnightmagic_> ah, that's not very nice of me. joe_1: You have to jump through some hoops to do it, but there are websites out there to help. find someone you trust and have them recommend one.
372 2011-01-04 08:22:32 slush has joined
373 2011-01-04 08:24:17 <midnightmagic_> \o slush!
374 2011-01-04 08:27:07 da2ce7 has joined
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379 2011-01-04 08:29:12 <joe_1> midnightmagic thanks. dont need the transfer right now but it is something i want to know about
380 2011-01-04 08:29:25 <joe_1> i'll look around in the forums see if anyone's done it.
381 2011-01-04 08:31:03 <slush> midnightmagic hi
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394 2011-01-04 08:53:31 <samfisher> hello
395 2011-01-04 08:53:34 HarryS has joined
396 2011-01-04 08:53:34 HarryS is now known as 13WAAYULM
397 2011-01-04 08:53:40 <eureka^> split much
398 2011-01-04 08:54:23 bitbot_ is now known as bitbot
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403 2011-01-04 09:16:30 davout has joined
404 2011-01-04 09:16:52 <davout> o hai
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409 2011-01-04 09:27:29 <lucky> o hai davout
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416 2011-01-04 10:00:32 * midnightmagic_ waves.
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419 2011-01-04 10:09:57 <UukGoblin> oh, gribble knows about Bitcoin Central already
420 2011-01-04 10:10:20 <UukGoblin> it's cool, but shouldn't show '$' for LREUR transactions, it's a bit misleading
421 2011-01-04 10:11:43 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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423 2011-01-04 10:22:01 ThomasV has joined
424 2011-01-04 10:25:28 midnightmagic_ has joined
425 2011-01-04 10:26:16 <midnightmagic_> uh.. in the bitcoin gui, there's a section that tells you a summary of pending generated blocks.. is there some way to get this list via json? i don't mind if it's convoluted. :-)
426 2011-01-04 10:31:09 <davout> haha yea i was busy fixing that right now actually
427 2011-01-04 10:31:37 <midnightmagic_> that was directed at me? :)
428 2011-01-04 10:32:39 <midnightmagic_> looks like listaccounts doesn't distinguish between local wallet accounts and just addressbook accounts. is there a difference?
429 2011-01-04 10:32:43 TheAncientGoat has joined
430 2011-01-04 10:34:55 <davout> no, UukGoblin :)
431 2011-01-04 10:36:10 <UukGoblin> what do you mean "no"? :-]
432 2011-01-04 10:36:28 <UukGoblin> euros aren't dollars. $ are. $ != eur. wrong.
433 2011-01-04 10:36:54 <midnightmagic_> davout: ah, sorry. :-)
434 2011-01-04 10:37:03 * midnightmagic_ waves.
435 2011-01-04 10:37:05 midnightmagic_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
436 2011-01-04 10:37:17 <sipa> midnightmagic_: what would the difference be?
437 2011-01-04 10:38:57 akem has joined
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440 2011-01-04 10:45:52 <davout> UukGoblin: which part of "fixing" did you not get ?
441 2011-01-04 10:46:31 <davout> fixes are deployed btw, comments welcome
442 2011-01-04 10:47:07 <davout> :)
443 2011-01-04 10:47:27 <UukGoblin> ah sorry I thought you were talking to midnightmagic ;-]
444 2011-01-04 10:48:26 da2ce7 has joined
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446 2011-01-04 11:05:08 <mizerydearia> wooo, response from Cyriak
447 2011-01-04 11:07:03 <mizerydearia> <ioguix> isn't bitcoin a bit like http://flattr.com/ but using bitcoins ?
448 2011-01-04 11:07:30 <mizerydearia> I'm not sure. I've never used flattr. Is it similar?
449 2011-01-04 11:09:44 RazielZ has joined
450 2011-01-04 11:10:05 <UukGoblin> no, bitcoin is not like flattr :-]
451 2011-01-04 11:10:09 <sipa> not at all
452 2011-01-04 11:14:30 BitterTea has joined
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454 2011-01-04 11:31:15 <da2ce7> have fun people: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2602.0
455 2011-01-04 11:31:16 <bitbot> mIRC TOR Script (that works) + Guide (with pictures) [25 + 50 + more BTC]
456 2011-01-04 11:36:14 devon_hillard has joined
457 2011-01-04 11:36:49 <devon_hillard> the mining.bitcoin.cz pool, it would be nice if workloads were a little harder
458 2011-01-04 11:37:41 <devon_hillard> to reduce the network traffic and possibly reduce load on the server
459 2011-01-04 11:37:41 <da2ce7> devon_hillard, having small work loads, mean that the coins will be shared eavenly even when the total time between blocks is small.
460 2011-01-04 11:38:00 <devon_hillard> or something dynamic
461 2011-01-04 11:38:14 <da2ce7> if the work loads were larger, we would have less accurate results when the total pool speed gets very large.
462 2011-01-04 11:38:19 <devon_hillard> if 1K shares have been distributed, increase difficulty
463 2011-01-04 11:38:40 <devon_hillard> after 2K, 4K, etc...
464 2011-01-04 11:38:41 <UukGoblin> a sasl mirc script? why sasl?
465 2011-01-04 11:39:02 <da2ce7> cause that is how you connect over Tor to Freenode.
466 2011-01-04 11:39:06 <da2ce7> It is fucking shit.
467 2011-01-04 11:39:31 <UukGoblin> oh. and mIRC doesn't support SASL?
468 2011-01-04 11:39:38 <da2ce7> nope.
469 2011-01-04 11:39:55 <da2ce7> there are two dogey scripts that don't work
470 2011-01-04 11:40:13 <UukGoblin> :-[
471 2011-01-04 11:40:36 <da2ce7> (hence the bounty)
472 2011-01-04 11:41:03 <UukGoblin> mhm
473 2011-01-04 11:41:09 <UukGoblin> looks like about a day's job tbh
474 2011-01-04 11:41:27 <UukGoblin> for a proficient windows guy
475 2011-01-04 11:42:15 <devon_hillard> Does anyone sell/buy BTC for Eve-Online ISK?
476 2011-01-04 11:42:16 <UukGoblin> but the guides could possibly be written by non-windows guys who understand tor and bitcoin well
477 2011-01-04 11:43:01 <UukGoblin> devon_hillard, I know someone did for Linden $, but you could be the first to do ISK! :-]
478 2011-01-04 11:43:31 <devon_hillard> the trouble with isk trade is that CCP are pretty paranoid about the ISK trade
479 2011-01-04 11:43:45 <devon_hillard> well, they sort of monitor large transactions
480 2011-01-04 11:44:08 <devon_hillard> because its' illegal to trade ISK for out of game money
481 2011-01-04 11:44:11 johndrinkwater has joined
482 2011-01-04 11:44:17 <UukGoblin> ah. sucks.
483 2011-01-04 11:44:51 <UukGoblin> can you trade this game time thingy for out-of-game money?
484 2011-01-04 11:44:59 <devon_hillard> no
485 2011-01-04 11:45:22 <devon_hillard> you can only trade in one direction money -> ISK (via game-time cards)
486 2011-01-04 11:45:32 <devon_hillard> but not ISK -> money
487 2011-01-04 11:45:46 johndrinkwater has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
488 2011-01-04 11:45:48 [Beta] has joined
489 2011-01-04 11:45:49 <UukGoblin> :-[
490 2011-01-04 11:46:25 <UukGoblin> heh, bitcoin.org/trade is blocked in my company with reason 'Proxy Avoidance'
491 2011-01-04 11:46:34 <UukGoblin> but bitcoin.org and the forum and others aren't.
492 2011-01-04 11:47:13 <UukGoblin> it's probably because of all these anonymous VPN services linked from there
493 2011-01-04 11:47:21 <ArtForz> probably doesn't like one of the tunnel links
494 2011-01-04 11:47:41 * UukGoblin nods
495 2011-01-04 11:47:54 <UukGoblin> what's up, ArtForz? :-)
496 2011-01-04 11:48:02 <ArtForz> not much
497 2011-01-04 11:48:07 <UukGoblin> how's the new year, got your ASICs yet? :-]
498 2011-01-04 11:48:16 <ArtForz> nope, like I said, february
499 2011-01-04 11:48:24 <UukGoblin> still in memphis then ;-]
500 2011-01-04 11:49:43 <ArtForz> hardware design is pretty much done, so I got some spare time trying to improve my GPU miner a bit more
501 2011-01-04 11:50:27 <UukGoblin> xkcd.com/281 but looks down ATM
502 2011-01-04 11:50:35 <ArtForz> should be able to get another 8-10% out of it
503 2011-01-04 11:50:54 <ArtForz> yep
504 2011-01-04 11:56:26 mtgox has joined
505 2011-01-04 11:57:56 akem has joined
506 2011-01-04 12:07:50 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
507 2011-01-04 12:07:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 100993 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 1822 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 1 hour, 29 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17190.47141793
508 2011-01-04 12:18:48 ThomasV has joined
509 2011-01-04 12:24:23 <devon_hillard> anyone selling teamspeak hosting for bitcoins?
510 2011-01-04 12:27:47 riush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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515 2011-01-04 12:55:16 <mizerydearia> http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/30/son_of_julius_and_ethel_rosenberg
516 2011-01-04 12:55:52 ApertureScience has joined
517 2011-01-04 13:10:25 <mizerydearia> If the us financial system were to collapse, what would the aftermath be like?
518 2011-01-04 13:12:27 <mizerydearia> Keefe, "if "miners" stopped running their processors when the flow of new coins slows to a trickle, the bitcoin system will collapse" -- If miners stop, then the difficulty will decrease to accomodate the less amount of processing power so that the remaining miners can continue to generate 2016 blocks in about two weeks.
519 2011-01-04 13:13:25 <mizerydearia> <AnonymousUser> i figure, once the US economy collapses, we'll have millions of people with college degrees who are very knowledgable. if i can find a trustworthy way of connecting people to exchange the services they've been trained to provide, then they'll have at least some means of income
520 2011-01-04 13:13:25 <mizerydearia> <AnonymousUser> millions of *unemployed* people with college degrees
521 2011-01-04 13:22:59 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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525 2011-01-04 13:59:14 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
526 2011-01-04 13:59:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 101004 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 1811 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 1 hour, 45 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17058.76276457
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536 2011-01-04 14:56:16 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: how long will it take to decrease the difficulty?
537 2011-01-04 14:56:32 <mizerydearia> Well
538 2011-01-04 14:56:37 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: if the miners all go away suddenly, it could take eternity
539 2011-01-04 14:56:49 <mizerydearia> If it takes longer than 2 weeks (in seconds), the difficulty will decrease.
540 2011-01-04 14:57:02 <devon_hillard> how is mhas/s calculated in the mining.bitcoin.cz pool?
541 2011-01-04 14:57:03 <luke-jr> even before the current 2016 finish?
542 2011-01-04 14:57:13 <mizerydearia> I am not sure of the exact formula used, but if someone provides it, you should be able to determine that info.
543 2011-01-04 14:57:41 zugzwang is now known as jargamloush
544 2011-01-04 14:57:41 <devon_hillard> it looks like slower workers are at a big disadvantage
545 2011-01-04 14:59:06 <mizerydearia> If there is a sudden drop in miners, then it will take a long time for the remaining of 2016 blocks to be generated. It could take a very long time. However, once those 2016 blocks are generated, the difficulty will be adjusted accordingly so that the next 2016 blocks will be very to easy to generate, perhaps even so easy that it may take a day or two (maybe less) to generate them.
546 2011-01-04 14:59:25 <mizerydearia> I imagine at that point, the difficulty will spiral back and forth until it gets closer and closer back to 1 difficulty
547 2011-01-04 15:00:39 <mizerydearia> However, I think participants of Bitcoin miners can work to help reduce the time to make the difficulty back down to 1.
548 2011-01-04 15:01:32 <mizerydearia> e.g. I foresee that individuals can generate 2015 blocks, and then stop 90% or so of processing and wait for more than 2 weeks to pass and then reintroduce the 90% processing power to quicly finish off generating 2016 blocks so that the difficulty will reduce
549 2011-01-04 15:01:53 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calculate 5600
550 2011-01-04 15:01:53 <mizerydearia> And to keep doing that for 2 week intervals so that the difficulty lowers to a point where it is not expensive to generate to keep the currency flowing
551 2011-01-04 15:01:53 <gribble> Error: "bc,calculate" is not a valid command.
552 2011-01-04 15:01:59 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 5600
553 2011-01-04 15:02:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5600 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 20 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 12 minutes, and 41 seconds
554 2011-01-04 15:02:00 <mizerydearia> And gradually users will bring the difficulty to 1.0
555 2011-01-04 15:02:06 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 5600000
556 2011-01-04 15:02:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 3 hours, 28 minutes, and 27 seconds
557 2011-01-04 15:02:37 <mizerydearia> can work together*
558 2011-01-04 15:02:52 <mizerydearia> Actually, stop 90% should be stop 100%
559 2011-01-04 15:03:25 <mizerydearia> actually no
560 2011-01-04 15:03:36 <mizerydearia> It is essential to continue generating for the bitcoin system to function.
561 2011-01-04 15:04:15 <mizerydearia> Therefore current generators must work together to establish generating blocks at slightly greater than 10 minutes so that it doesn't interrupt service too noticeably.
562 2011-01-04 15:04:28 <mizerydearia> Perhaps even a delay of 20 minutes per block generation may be acceptable
563 2011-01-04 15:04:40 <mizerydearia> and in such case, that will allow 4 weeks to pass for generating 2016 blocks
564 2011-01-04 15:04:45 <EvanR-work> haha 'slightly greater'
565 2011-01-04 15:04:52 <mizerydearia> and that will help to reduce the difficulty.
566 2011-01-04 15:05:04 <mizerydearia> yes, slightly greater so as to not cause interrupting in transactions
567 2011-01-04 15:05:17 <EvanR-work> 2x is slight?
568 2011-01-04 15:05:45 <mizerydearia> e.g. if 2016 blocks are generated in 2 years instead of 2 weeks, then transactions will be very slow and cause many Bitcoin-established services to function very poorly.
569 2011-01-04 15:06:21 <mizerydearia> Therefore while it is essential to prepare mining to take longer than 2 weeks to gradually reduce the difficulty closer to 1.0, to not take too much longer, so as to preserve the flow of transactions and confirmations
570 2011-01-04 15:07:00 <EvanR-work> what are we talking about, difficulty is too high?
571 2011-01-04 15:07:16 <mizerydearia> btw, if anyone is just following, due to tl;dr, the discussion is regarding reducing the difficulty when all 21,000,000 (or just less, forgot the exact number) have been generated and it is no longer at all profitable to generate
572 2011-01-04 15:07:38 <afed> it probably falls to zero
573 2011-01-04 15:07:40 <afed> or one
574 2011-01-04 15:07:43 <afed> or some such
575 2011-01-04 15:07:50 <afed> just high enough to regulate the rate
576 2011-01-04 15:08:34 <mizerydearia> My proposed suggestion is for existing miners at that time (~140 years from now) to work together to reduce the difficulty gradually by organizing to generate blocks in slightly greater than 10 minute intervals.
577 2011-01-04 15:08:36 <afed> the reason it increases now is to regulate the rate of bitcoin generation, once no new coins are generated, difficulty's purpose will be to make sure blocks aren't generated too fast
578 2011-01-04 15:08:37 <mizerydearia> btw, o
579 2011-01-04 15:08:43 <mizerydearia> nm btw
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583 2011-01-04 15:09:17 <mizerydearia> The reason it increases now is because there is still high demand for users to obtain bitcoins and it is worthy of doing so.
584 2011-01-04 15:09:25 <mizerydearia> e.g. there is much potential value for bitcoins.
585 2011-01-04 15:09:32 <mizerydearia> e.g.
586 2011-01-04 15:09:34 <mizerydearia> ;worldpop
587 2011-01-04 15:09:34 dsg has joined
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589 2011-01-04 15:09:35 dsg has joined
590 2011-01-04 15:09:35 <bitbot> mizerydearia: According to http://is.gd/dsqcH the world population is 6,891,399,716. If everyone had the same amount of bitcoins, everyone would have 0.00304728 bitcoins. If 0.00000001 bitcoins were equivalent to US$0.01, then everyone would have equivalent of US$3,047.27644099 and the value of all bitcoins would be equivalent of US$21,000,000,000,000.00.
591 2011-01-04 15:09:59 T_X has joined
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595 2011-01-04 15:10:38 <afed> ok
596 2011-01-04 15:10:42 <luke-jr> that is why the Tonal units are based on 0x1,0000 uBTC
597 2011-01-04 15:11:34 <mizerydearia> However, with the potential fall of us financial system, I presume that 140 years from now people will not even know what us$ are unless they are familiar with history.
598 2011-01-04 15:11:48 <EvanR-work> lol
599 2011-01-04 15:13:35 <mizerydearia> Julian Assange-Wikileaks-The Latest Interview part 1-6 are interesting... up to part 5 now
600 2011-01-04 15:13:55 ThomasV has joined
601 2011-01-04 15:14:04 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: the point is that BTC are too limited
602 2011-01-04 15:14:11 <mizerydearia> Actually, part 1-4 covers the previous interview from July. Part 5 starts the latest interview
603 2011-01-04 15:14:19 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, too limited?
604 2011-01-04 15:14:27 <luke-jr> if people only have 0.001 BTC, they'll be trading in 0.000001 BTC or so, and won't want to write that
605 2011-01-04 15:14:29 <luke-jr> or say it
606 2011-01-04 15:14:49 <mizerydearia> Why would they not want to write it?
607 2011-01-04 15:14:56 <mizerydearia> for example, the opposite
608 2011-01-04 15:15:07 <mizerydearia> If you have $1,000,000,000 would you not write it because too many zeros?
609 2011-01-04 15:15:20 <mizerydearia> Similarly, then you would or would not write $0.0000000001
610 2011-01-04 15:15:32 <EvanR-work> just change units
611 2011-01-04 15:15:44 <luke-jr> $1,000,000,000 is a lot
612 2011-01-04 15:15:51 <EvanR-work> this aspect of bitcoins is the thing most complained about
613 2011-01-04 15:15:55 <luke-jr> not a usual value
614 2011-01-04 15:16:03 <mizerydearia> I do not think the number will have any value in determinine whether a user will write it or not.
615 2011-01-04 15:16:07 <EvanR-work> people dont complain about pennies being the smallest practical unit of dollars
616 2011-01-04 15:16:09 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: I am advocating that, but nobody else is :P
617 2011-01-04 15:16:27 <EvanR-work> no thats the usual answer to people complaining about nanocoins being too big
618 2011-01-04 15:16:28 <mizerydearia> EvanR-work, That aspect is mind over matter.
619 2011-01-04 15:16:42 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: nobody wants to print 4 for $0.000001 on merchandise
620 2011-01-04 15:16:49 <mizerydearia> EvanR-work, And especially biased by currencies that use minimal amounts for simple purchases
621 2011-01-04 15:17:00 <EvanR-work> yeah
622 2011-01-04 15:17:15 <mizerydearia> currencies that require larger amounts for simple purchases are used to it.
623 2011-01-04 15:17:29 <mizerydearia> And alternatively currencies that require tiny amounts for simple transactions are used to it as well
624 2011-01-04 15:17:32 <EvanR-work> it just so happens 1btc is worth 'alot' right now
625 2011-01-04 15:17:38 <mizerydearia> s/simple transactions/low cost transactions.
626 2011-01-04 15:17:41 <mizerydearia> s/simple transactions/low cost transactions/
627 2011-01-04 15:17:41 <gavinandresen> mizerydearia: why are you worrying about problems that won't happen until after we're all dead?
628 2011-01-04 15:17:58 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if you die first, it will never happen
629 2011-01-04 15:18:02 <luke-jr> because BTC will be a failure
630 2011-01-04 15:18:08 <mizerydearia> gavinandresen, mm, because I can?
631 2011-01-04 15:18:15 <luke-jr> the only way BTC can succeed, is if it gains significant adoption
632 2011-01-04 15:18:27 <EvanR-work> gavinandresen its called thinking
633 2011-01-04 15:18:33 <mizerydearia> gavinandresen, Same reason why people are concerned about improving our world for future generations
634 2011-01-04 15:18:33 <luke-jr> at which point each BTC will have enourmous value each
635 2011-01-04 15:18:37 <gavinandresen> Worrying about problems that won't happen for 100 years is a very good way to ensure bitcoin will be a failure. You should worry about things that are a problem NOW
636 2011-01-04 15:18:47 <mizerydearia> gavinandresen, e.g. why do people care about global warming if it will not affect them in their lifetime?
637 2011-01-04 15:18:48 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it is a problem now
638 2011-01-04 15:18:58 <EvanR-work> no it isnt
639 2011-01-04 15:19:03 <EvanR-work> it may never be
640 2011-01-04 15:19:14 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: BTC can never be adopted so long as this problem exists
641 2011-01-04 15:19:19 <luke-jr> so if you want adoption, it is a problem
642 2011-01-04 15:19:23 <EvanR-work> ...
643 2011-01-04 15:19:28 <mizerydearia> However, such things are becoming a noticeable problem now
644 2011-01-04 15:20:00 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: you want problems with adoption, use base 2
645 2011-01-04 15:20:04 <mizerydearia> Additionally, there are many people, problems that exist now can be worked on by some of the people while other people can work on other problems whether they exist now or later.
646 2011-01-04 15:20:05 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: let's just think up a good name for TBTC and start using that :P
647 2011-01-04 15:20:13 <EvanR-work> seriously
648 2011-01-04 15:20:23 <gavinandresen> So, if bitcoin is still going in 100 years, I think we have to assume it is being used a bunch. So there are lots of transaction fees in blocks, because people want their transactions to go through....
649 2011-01-04 15:20:37 <ThomasV> luke-jr: how much is a TBTC ?
650 2011-01-04 15:20:39 <EvanR-work> not using base ten is a great way to scare people away
651 2011-01-04 15:20:48 <EvanR-work> use uBTC if theres a real need
652 2011-01-04 15:20:57 <EvanR-work> which there isnt
653 2011-01-04 15:21:20 <mizerydearia> It is true, however, that 100 years from now a better implementation than Bitcoin can be developed and just like we are currently gradually shifting from usd and other currencies to bitcoin, the same will happen in which bitcoin users will gradually shift to the new currency.
654 2011-01-04 15:21:44 fabianhjr has joined
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656 2011-01-04 15:21:47 <mizerydearia> Therefore it isn't necessary to be concerned on how Bitcoin can still function in the future.
657 2011-01-04 15:21:52 T_X has joined
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659 2011-01-04 15:21:52 T_X has joined
660 2011-01-04 15:21:53 <fabianhjr> Hi, sup?
661 2011-01-04 15:21:54 <ThomasV> mizerydearia: yes ! a new bitcoin with controlled inflation !
662 2011-01-04 15:22:06 <EvanR-work> now supports fractional reserve banking
663 2011-01-04 15:22:12 <EvanR-work> lol
664 2011-01-04 15:22:37 <mizerydearia> And as gavinandresen said, to focus on issues that are now.
665 2011-01-04 15:22:37 <ThomasV> no fractional banking, just inflation
666 2011-01-04 15:22:55 <mizerydearia> gavinandresen, What do you suggest are the current issues at the moment?
667 2011-01-04 15:23:03 <mizerydearia> besides jsonp ^_^
668 2011-01-04 15:23:10 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: make it mainstream. :P
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670 2011-01-04 15:23:31 luke-jr has joined
671 2011-01-04 15:23:39 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: let's just think up a good name for TBTC and start using that :P
672 2011-01-04 15:23:41 <fabianhjr> LOL, I am giving coins out just to get people interested.
673 2011-01-04 15:23:48 <gavinandresen> Right now: the bitcoin "out of the box experience" is lousy.
674 2011-01-04 15:24:05 <mizerydearia> fabianhjr, ooh, I'll take some and will establish a bit of interest maybe ^_^
675 2011-01-04 15:24:12 <fabianhjr> gavinandresen: unless you use the Bitcoin via email similar to PayPal and others service.
676 2011-01-04 15:24:18 <gavinandresen> Installing software and then having to wait several hours for something called the 'block chain' to download is ... bleuch.
677 2011-01-04 15:24:31 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: have a raindroplet account?
678 2011-01-04 15:24:36 <mizerydearia> fabianhjr, I don't.
679 2011-01-04 15:24:42 <gavinandresen> Yes, we need super-reliable web-based bitcoin accounts.
680 2011-01-04 15:24:49 <fabianhjr> Create it ajnd I will give you credit. :)
681 2011-01-04 15:24:49 <gavinandresen> From trusted companies.
682 2011-01-04 15:24:56 <mizerydearia> I heard about raindroplet from nanotube, haven't investigated it too much as of yet.
683 2011-01-04 15:24:58 <ThomasV> hehe
684 2011-01-04 15:25:10 <gavinandresen> Or, at least, from little startups that are INSURED or backed by trusted companies.
685 2011-01-04 15:25:34 <fabianhjr> gavinandresen: :/ there is this already. Let me get you the address.
686 2011-01-04 15:26:00 <gavinandresen> Oh, and a properly licensed easy-to-buy-bitcoins-with-soft-currency (credit card or paypal) service.
687 2011-01-04 15:26:02 <mizerydearia> Well, with the super-reliable web-based accounts, I imagine that with my Bitcoin Control Panel development, it will help to spark or make easier super-reliable services to arise.
688 2011-01-04 15:26:30 <fabianhjr> https://www.mybitcoin.com/
689 2011-01-04 15:26:38 <gavinandresen> The real problems aren't technology (although there's plenty to be done there)-- it is trust. Which will mostly take time.
690 2011-01-04 15:26:51 <fabianhjr> Thats the current implementation. It is not open source.
691 2011-01-04 15:27:06 <luke-jr> fabianhjr: so much for trust
692 2011-01-04 15:27:14 * luke-jr will never trust something closed
693 2011-01-04 15:27:25 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: http://raindroplet.info and tell me your email. I will trust you some coins. :)
694 2011-01-04 15:27:28 <mizerydearia> Yes, open source similarly to nanotube's bitcoin-otc may be useful
695 2011-01-04 15:27:30 WonTu has joined
696 2011-01-04 15:27:35 <mizerydearia> Otherwise raindroplet is innteresting also
697 2011-01-04 15:27:41 <fabianhjr> luke-jr: I am not happy either.
698 2011-01-04 15:27:42 <gavinandresen> fabianhjr: I like mybitcoin... but I'm not absolutely 100% sure they won't accidently, or on purpose, lose/steal any bitcoins I park there.
699 2011-01-04 15:27:44 WonTu has left ()
700 2011-01-04 15:28:02 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
701 2011-01-04 15:28:06 <mizerydearia> And if they lose the bitcoins, it is impossible to refund them
702 2011-01-04 15:28:18 <mizerydearia> stealing is another matter
703 2011-01-04 15:28:22 <EvanR-work> insurance
704 2011-01-04 15:28:23 darkskiez has joined
705 2011-01-04 15:28:24 <EvanR-work> ;)
706 2011-01-04 15:28:26 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: under they cost as a responsible company would.
707 2011-01-04 15:28:33 <mizerydearia> EvanR, insurance would cause services to go bankrupt and cease to exist
708 2011-01-04 15:28:44 <mizerydearia> e.g. more money cannot be printed from thin air
709 2011-01-04 15:29:02 <mizerydearia> In fact, I am not so enthusiastic about insurance
710 2011-01-04 15:29:07 <mizerydearia> and think insurance is unnecessary
711 2011-01-04 15:29:09 <fabianhjr> mizerydearia: I am right now mining Bitcoins. :P
712 2011-01-04 15:29:20 <EvanR-work> insurance is a pilar of modern finance
713 2011-01-04 15:29:45 <EvanR-work> bitcoins surely should be able to support it
714 2011-01-04 15:29:52 <EvanR-work> perhaps not for loss of bitcoins
715 2011-01-04 15:29:55 <EvanR-work> :(
716 2011-01-04 15:30:20 <mizerydearia> gavinandresen, Perhaps it would be essential to store your bitcoins across many different providers so that if funds are lost from one, it is not too devastating a loss
717 2011-01-04 15:30:36 <mizerydearia> e.g. 100+ vendors, and your bitcoins distributed evenly (or not) across them.
718 2011-01-04 15:30:48 <mizerydearia> That may seem a bit much, but may be useful posssibly
719 2011-01-04 15:31:21 <gavinandresen> mizerydearia: secure storage of bitcoins, offline, encrypted, etc is on my short list of stuff we need to make easier to do.
720 2011-01-04 15:31:22 <mizerydearia> Perhaps a kind of p2p network distributed mybitcoin-like service?
721 2011-01-04 15:31:30 <mizerydearia> e.g. a p2p network for a p2p network?
722 2011-01-04 15:31:39 <EvanR-work> you know how no matter what the enterprise never seems to suffer some catastrophic event about 1000 of which could happen in space at any minute? thats the technology we need for our bitcoins
723 2011-01-04 15:31:52 <EvanR-work> should be that hard with a bit of redundancy and encryption (and trust)
724 2011-01-04 15:31:55 <EvanR-work> shouldnt
725 2011-01-04 15:32:02 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
726 2011-01-04 15:32:17 ThomasV has joined
727 2011-01-04 15:33:31 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: any ideas for name of TBTC?
728 2011-01-04 15:33:40 <mizerydearia> What is t in btc?
729 2011-01-04 15:34:02 <EvanR-work> i dont like BTC
730 2011-01-04 15:34:10 <luke-jr> Tonal
731 2011-01-04 15:34:35 <mizerydearia> Hmm, what is Tonal BTC?
732 2011-01-04 15:34:53 <luke-jr> 1 TBTC = 0x1,0000 uBTC
733 2011-01-04 15:35:12 <EvanR-work> 10^-8BTC?
734 2011-01-04 15:35:12 <mizerydearia> It isn't necessary the currency have "Bitcoin" in the name.
735 2011-01-04 15:35:36 <mizerydearia> However, at this time it isn't necessary to think about it really as gavin mentioned initially.
736 2011-01-04 15:35:49 <mizerydearia> You're welcome to consider it further, but I won't waste time with it.
737 2011-01-04 15:36:09 <ThomasV> I think it's more urgent to develop the economy
738 2011-01-04 15:36:24 <luke-jr> changing terminology after adoption is much harder
739 2011-01-04 15:36:40 <EvanR-work> terminology, window dressing, etc, is up to the people
740 2011-01-04 15:36:46 <EvanR-work> if it gets adopted let them figure itout
741 2011-01-04 15:36:58 <luke-jr> no
742 2011-01-04 15:37:00 <luke-jr> they're idiots
743 2011-01-04 15:37:16 <EvanR-work> i can assure you they wont like base16
744 2011-01-04 15:37:30 <ThomasV> I guess they will use "mb" for "millibitcoin"
745 2011-01-04 15:37:47 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: don't be so sure
746 2011-01-04 15:38:00 <EvanR-work> are you trying to sabotage things?
747 2011-01-04 15:38:03 <EvanR-work> or what
748 2011-01-04 15:38:09 <luke-jr> despite dollar being a decimal currency, people /still/ find ways to use divisions of 2
749 2011-01-04 15:38:23 * luke-jr gestures toward the 'bit' unit
750 2011-01-04 15:38:43 <EvanR-work> base2 for money is inappropriate
751 2011-01-04 15:38:53 <luke-jr> base16 is perfect
752 2011-01-04 15:38:58 <edcba> ?
753 2011-01-04 15:39:10 * ThomasV stares at his 16 fingers
754 2011-01-04 15:39:14 <EvanR-work> base3 has high information density
755 2011-01-04 15:39:17 <EvanR-work> higher
756 2011-01-04 15:39:59 <luke-jr> despite it technically representing 0.125 cents in a currency that can't meet that resolution, people still work with units of 'bit'
757 2011-01-04 15:40:08 <EvanR-work> we use base ten for money, scientific measurement, writing most numbers (even in non base ten systems like time of day), fingers etc
758 2011-01-04 15:40:10 <luke-jr> because powers/divisions of 2 are EASIER
759 2011-01-04 15:40:22 <EvanR-work> engineering
760 2011-01-04 15:40:25 <EvanR-work> architecture
761 2011-01-04 15:40:26 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: only because people were forced to
762 2011-01-04 15:40:29 <luke-jr> by law
763 2011-01-04 15:40:32 <EvanR-work> youre forcing bas16
764 2011-01-04 15:40:43 <luke-jr> base16 is natural to adopt
765 2011-01-04 15:40:46 <luke-jr> unlike base10
766 2011-01-04 15:41:03 <luke-jr> it won't require force, just needs to gain motion
767 2011-01-04 15:41:44 <ThomasV> luke-jr: just write a client that uses base 2 and see how it gains adoption
768 2011-01-04 15:41:51 <luke-jr> ThomasV: tonal
769 2011-01-04 15:41:53 <ThomasV> I predict utter failure, though
770 2011-01-04 15:42:00 <ThomasV> whatever
771 2011-01-04 15:42:19 <sipa> i agree that base 2 might be more natural than base 10
772 2011-01-04 15:42:25 <luke-jr> and I can't really do that so long as building bitcoin clients is practically impossible
773 2011-01-04 15:42:26 <fabianhjr> Anyone called Doctordns in this channel at the site OpenStudy?
774 2011-01-04 15:42:51 <sipa> but people are trained to use base 10 from very young age on
775 2011-01-04 15:43:00 <sipa> i don't think anyone it going to want to switch
776 2011-01-04 15:43:13 <luke-jr> sipa: yep, but even despite that brainwashing, people STILL try to use base2 when they cna
777 2011-01-04 15:43:26 <sipa> it's not brainwashing
778 2011-01-04 15:43:34 <luke-jr> sure it is
779 2011-01-04 15:43:43 <EvanR-work> let the kid live with wolves, lets see how well they can count in *any* base system after that
780 2011-01-04 15:43:46 <sipa> there are studies that show that people can do very fast math up to some 15 numbers
781 2011-01-04 15:44:06 <sipa> so i think that base 8 or 16 would be faster than base 2
782 2011-01-04 15:44:15 <sipa> and possibly *slightly* better than base 10
783 2011-01-04 15:44:48 <luke-jr> significantly*
784 2011-01-04 15:44:53 <sipa> that is, if one were to learn only these in there lives
785 2011-01-04 15:44:54 <EvanR-work> ripple adder mentally is slower in base 2
786 2011-01-04 15:44:54 <sipa> their
787 2011-01-04 15:45:21 <EvanR-work> but you dont always need an exact result
788 2011-01-04 15:46:36 <EvanR-work> base sixty ftw
789 2011-01-04 15:47:18 <mizerydearia> Yay http://democracynow.org/
790 2011-01-04 15:48:53 <pankkake> after months of running bitcoin on my machines, I still have 0 bitcoin
791 2011-01-04 15:49:00 <pankkake> :(
792 2011-01-04 15:49:02 <sipa> pankkake: join a pool
793 2011-01-04 15:49:13 <pankkake> a pool?
794 2011-01-04 15:49:27 <sipa> http://mining.bitcoin.cz
795 2011-01-04 15:49:48 <pankkake> thanks, that looks interesting
796 2011-01-04 15:51:41 genjix has joined
797 2011-01-04 15:51:46 <genjix> ssssup
798 2011-01-04 15:52:48 blakkino has joined
799 2011-01-04 15:55:38 <fabianhjr> Are there any forks of the main client apart of the github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/ one?
800 2011-01-04 15:58:37 <genjix> i believe jgar has one
801 2011-01-04 15:59:00 KwukDuck has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
802 2011-01-04 15:59:59 <devon_hillard> Patent-pending file compression scheme: take a file, which is just a string of bits, which is a number N. Add "0." in front of it so it looks like "0.N". Now you have a number between 0 and 1, or a ratio. Take a stick of defined length and make a mark on it at the precise ratio.
803 2011-01-04 16:00:54 <bonsaikitten> devon_hillard: that's arithmetic coding
804 2011-01-04 16:01:13 <EvanR-work> having reliable hardware real numbers is nice isnt it
805 2011-01-04 16:01:17 <bonsaikitten> with the twist that you try to use a real-world item as representation instead of a bitstring
806 2011-01-04 16:01:36 <devon_hillard> the idea is, you can have any file length :) infinite storage
807 2011-01-04 16:01:57 <EvanR-work> as long as you can read it back to arbitrary precision, correctly
808 2011-01-04 16:03:01 <devon_hillard> As an exercise, try to determine the maximum practical storage space of a 1m stick.
809 2011-01-04 16:03:10 <devon_hillard> using this scheme
810 2011-01-04 16:03:19 * sipa looks up planck distance
811 2011-01-04 16:03:28 <EvanR-work> he said practical ;)
812 2011-01-04 16:03:48 <devon_hillard> practical, but limited by hard physical constants
813 2011-01-04 16:04:18 <sipa> so, you can store some 115 bits in a 1-meter stick
814 2011-01-04 16:04:31 blakkino has left ()
815 2011-01-04 16:04:41 <devon_hillard> amazing, isn't it :)
816 2011-01-04 16:04:44 <EvanR-work> plank length hasnt been established as hard anything, thats stuff is in the realm of pop science
817 2011-01-04 16:05:35 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
818 2011-01-04 16:07:28 <EvanR-work> machines on the scale of transistors could be made to mechanically report a number besides 0 or 1
819 2011-01-04 16:07:40 <EvanR-work> altering it after the fact seems hard though
820 2011-01-04 16:10:47 <genjix> devon_hillard: -_- you assume also that matter is infinitely devisible
821 2011-01-04 16:11:00 <genjix> as sipa says
822 2011-01-04 16:11:05 <devon_hillard> patent-pending assumption :p
823 2011-01-04 16:11:32 <genjix> it's wrong though :p the planck length is the smallest distance in physics possible
824 2011-01-04 16:12:31 <sipa> not really
825 2011-01-04 16:12:43 <genjix> beyond that physics breaks down and we start using strings and membranes XD
826 2011-01-04 16:12:50 <sipa> it's the length at which quantum-mechanical probabilities become relevant
827 2011-01-04 16:13:28 <sipa> if you want some reasonable certainty, you'd need to stay some orders of magnitude larger, i think
828 2011-01-04 16:16:34 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
829 2011-01-04 16:17:40 altamic has joined
830 2011-01-04 16:22:24 <bonsaikitten> hmm, I thought the planck length was the voxel resolution used in this simulation of a universe
831 2011-01-04 16:22:24 grondilu has joined
832 2011-01-04 16:26:13 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
833 2011-01-04 16:29:09 <lucky> heh, reminds me of Zeno's paradox of motion.
834 2011-01-04 16:30:10 altamic has joined
835 2011-01-04 16:40:41 nefario has joined
836 2011-01-04 16:41:17 <nefario> grondilu hello
837 2011-01-04 16:41:24 <grondilu> hi
838 2011-01-04 16:41:56 <luke-jr> http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps¤cy=TBC
839 2011-01-04 16:41:59 <nefario> sorry I havn't used the bitcoin irc before
840 2011-01-04 16:42:17 <nefario> ok so I assume you got my pm?
841 2011-01-04 16:42:20 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
842 2011-01-04 16:42:25 <grondilu> yes
843 2011-01-04 16:42:45 <nefario> would those machines be ok for you?
844 2011-01-04 16:42:56 <nefario> one is already set up
845 2011-01-04 16:43:07 <nefario> the onther has yet to be done
846 2011-01-04 16:43:07 <grondilu> no I prefer use my own.
847 2011-01-04 16:43:36 <nefario> what did you have in mind?
848 2011-01-04 16:43:52 <nefario> (I assume you are based in france?)
849 2011-01-04 16:44:22 <grondilu> what do you mean ?
850 2011-01-04 16:44:54 <grondilu> I just want to avoid taxes :)
851 2011-01-04 16:45:07 <nefario> I'm thinking that you are in France, that is where you are located, and compared to China France has quite good internet connections
852 2011-01-04 16:45:46 <nefario> hate tax |:<
853 2011-01-04 16:45:54 <grondilu> I'm just about installing OpenSSL now
854 2011-01-04 16:46:01 <luke-jr> grondilu: BTC won't avoid taxes
855 2011-01-04 16:46:22 <nefario> ok, you don't need to uninstall the apt openssl packages
856 2011-01-04 16:46:43 <nefario> openssl from openssl.org should install to /usr/local/ssl
857 2011-01-04 16:47:12 <grondilu> I've added the experimental repo, and now I'm looking for the correct option to apt-get to install using it
858 2011-01-04 16:47:49 <grondilu> hum... I think it's '-t' : apt-get install -t experimental openssl
859 2011-01-04 16:47:51 <nefario> just add this directory to your path (before everythin else) and Open-Transactions will find the correct version of openssl for building
860 2011-01-04 16:48:04 Zarutian has joined
861 2011-01-04 16:48:15 <grondilu> I'll go with the 'simulate' option first
862 2011-01-04 16:48:31 <nefario> I just did a source install from openssl.org
863 2011-01-04 16:48:53 <nefario> it must be version 1.0.0b or higher
864 2011-01-04 16:50:31 <grondilu> ok I'll go for it
865 2011-01-04 16:51:11 <nefario> the build doesn't take long
866 2011-01-04 16:51:48 <nefario> for openssl or OT
867 2011-01-04 16:56:22 <grondilu> ok I'm trying to compile OT now
868 2011-01-04 16:57:15 <grondilu> damn it I still have the whrlpool.h error.
869 2011-01-04 16:57:29 <nefario> go openssl verion
870 2011-01-04 16:57:31 paul0 has joined
871 2011-01-04 16:57:35 <nefario> see what does it say?
872 2011-01-04 16:58:57 <grondilu> oh, my mistake
873 2011-01-04 16:59:05 <nefario> if it is older version that means you have not added /usr/local/ssl/bin on to the front of your path
874 2011-01-04 16:59:46 <grondilu> I just downloaded '-d' option in apt-get
875 2011-01-04 16:59:56 <grondilu> I'm making the real install now
876 2011-01-04 17:00:17 <grondilu> ok now I have openssl 1.0.0c
877 2011-01-04 17:00:39 <grondilu> recompiling OT
878 2011-01-04 17:00:46 <nefario> great
879 2011-01-04 17:01:02 <nefario> what languages do you like?
880 2011-01-04 17:01:57 <grondilu> C, and C++ (until I read Satoshi's code ;) )
881 2011-01-04 17:02:11 <grondilu> but I'm a poor C programmer :(
882 2011-01-04 17:02:33 <grondilu> shit I still have the whirlpool error :(
883 2011-01-04 17:03:04 <nefario> $openssl version
884 2011-01-04 17:03:17 <nefario> what is the result?
885 2011-01-04 17:03:40 <nefario> also did you do a make clean first before re-compiling?
886 2011-01-04 17:03:49 <grondilu> OpenSSL 1.0.0c 2 Dec 2010
887 2011-01-04 17:04:03 <grondilu> yeas I had made "make clean"
888 2011-01-04 17:04:11 <grondilu> I think I need the openssl-dev
889 2011-01-04 17:04:20 <nefario> sure
890 2011-01-04 17:04:42 <nefario> I've just told you what worked for me
891 2011-01-04 17:05:03 <grondilu> ah apt-get doesn't find any openssl-dev
892 2011-01-04 17:05:53 <grondilu> but there is a "libglobus-openssl-dev". ?
893 2011-01-04 17:06:30 <nefario> You have a spare machine to use for this?
894 2011-01-04 17:07:50 <nanotube> grondilu: libssl-dev
895 2011-01-04 17:07:59 <grondilu> oh, thkns nanotube
896 2011-01-04 17:08:04 <nanotube> np :)
897 2011-01-04 17:08:39 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
898 2011-01-04 17:09:05 * grondilu is compiling OT again
899 2011-01-04 17:10:30 <grondilu> ok. A few warnings, but it went through
900 2011-01-04 17:10:45 <nefario> sweet
901 2011-01-04 17:11:09 <nefario> did you do make or make rpc?
902 2011-01-04 17:11:32 <grondilu> ah indeed I should have made rpc
903 2011-01-04 17:11:41 <grondilu> I restart
904 2011-01-04 17:11:42 <nefario> no difference
905 2011-01-04 17:11:47 <nefario> dont worry
906 2011-01-04 17:11:53 <nefario> if one works so does the other
907 2011-01-04 17:12:11 <grondilu> Well the "getting start' file says it's better to make rpc
908 2011-01-04 17:12:23 <nefario> the only difference in use is the client must issue a connect command before speaking to the server
909 2011-01-04 17:12:57 <nefario> what we would actually be using would be the rpc version, that would sure make things easier.
910 2011-01-04 17:13:02 <nanotube> grondilu: what are you making? :)
911 2011-01-04 17:13:26 <grondilu> "make rpc" instead of just "make"
912 2011-01-04 17:13:26 davout has joined
913 2011-01-04 17:14:02 <grondilu> ok now I read the "GETTING-STARTED.txt" (I should have done that first :) )
914 2011-01-04 17:14:23 <nefario> yep
915 2011-01-04 17:14:47 <nefario> first with the transaction/transaction.exe
916 2011-01-04 17:15:07 <nefario> then try the client in testwallet/testwallet.exe
917 2011-01-04 17:15:38 <grondilu> a ".exe" file, ain't that weird ?
918 2011-01-04 17:15:58 <nefario> it's just the name
919 2011-01-04 17:16:11 <nefario> makes it easier to find I suppose
920 2011-01-04 17:16:29 <nefario> I guess the devs are planning to have it working on windows
921 2011-01-04 17:17:11 <nefario> oh a quick, only slightly related question, is there a url shortening service for .onion url?
922 2011-01-04 17:17:44 <nefario> so users don't have to type asfefasdfassade.onion
923 2011-01-04 17:19:08 <grondilu> hum I don't get it. Should I put the password on command line or something ? I get a USAGE line if I just run ./transaction.exe
924 2011-01-04 17:19:19 <nefario> yes you do
925 2011-01-04 17:19:37 <nefario> wait a sec
926 2011-01-04 17:21:23 <grondilu> ok I have my test server running
927 2011-01-04 17:21:43 <nefario> ok sorry
928 2011-01-04 17:22:00 <grondilu> Well, I have to take some time to understand all this.
929 2011-01-04 17:22:05 <grondilu> Give me a few days
930 2011-01-04 17:22:16 <nefario> you need ./transaction /full/path/to/keys
931 2011-01-04 17:22:24 <grondilu> yes I did that
932 2011-01-04 17:22:44 <nefario> me too but read the wiki's and the basic theory
933 2011-01-04 17:22:58 <grondilu> ok now I'm gonna leave IRC and focus on this stuff.
934 2011-01-04 17:23:02 <nefario> I need to play around with it more, especially the market
935 2011-01-04 17:23:16 <grondilu> ok
936 2011-01-04 17:23:21 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
937 2011-01-04 17:23:25 <nefario> sure im going to be
938 2011-01-04 17:24:16 nefario has quit (Quit: Page closed)
939 2011-01-04 17:27:53 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
940 2011-01-04 17:31:29 ebel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
941 2011-01-04 17:38:29 samfisher has joined
942 2011-01-04 17:38:51 <samfisher> hi, do you know how I could see statistics of my website (no of visitors, ips etc)
943 2011-01-04 17:38:59 <samfisher> free hosted website
944 2011-01-04 17:40:04 akem has joined
945 2011-01-04 17:40:04 akem has quit (Changing host)
946 2011-01-04 17:40:04 akem has joined
947 2011-01-04 17:40:17 <fabianhjr> SamGoogle analytics.
948 2011-01-04 17:40:31 <fabianhjr> samfisher: Google Analytics
949 2011-01-04 17:43:39 ThomasV has joined
950 2011-01-04 17:46:53 <nanotube> heh, /me has google-analytics blocked via noscript. :P
951 2011-01-04 17:47:23 <luke-jr> someone needs to make BitCoin a library or something -.-
952 2011-01-04 17:47:42 <luke-jr> does the 'bitcoin' GUI use the daemon?
953 2011-01-04 17:47:58 <nanotube> no, it's standalone
954 2011-01-04 17:49:38 <luke-jr> is there a branch of bitcoin with sane build process?
955 2011-01-04 17:49:47 zygf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
956 2011-01-04 17:50:06 slush has joined
957 2011-01-04 17:51:47 zygf has joined
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959 2011-01-04 17:59:16 cdecker has joined
960 2011-01-04 18:00:26 <UukGoblin> has anyone started discussing increasing divisibility on the forum?
961 2011-01-04 18:01:06 <UukGoblin> bitcoin went up in value a lot and 0.01 is actually worth more than some real-world currencies' minimal denomination
962 2011-01-04 18:01:58 <UukGoblin> and since some people want to use it for micropayments... might be worth giving it another decimal point...
963 2011-01-04 18:09:50 m0mchil has left ()
964 2011-01-04 18:13:03 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: afaik it works fine
965 2011-01-04 18:13:05 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: what would be a sane build process? What platform you on?
966 2011-01-04 18:13:13 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: I'm creating a new serialization of BTC :p
967 2011-01-04 18:13:20 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ./configure && make && make install
968 2011-01-04 18:13:22 <luke-jr> Gentoo
969 2011-01-04 18:13:57 <ThomasV> luke-jr: that would be great
970 2011-01-04 18:13:58 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: you know anything about configure scripts? I know folks are working on cmake... I'd like somebody to make the build better.
971 2011-01-04 18:14:13 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'm working on porting it to Qt :P
972 2011-01-04 18:14:29 <luke-jr> including QCA for SHA256 and QJson
973 2011-01-04 18:14:30 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: awesome.
974 2011-01-04 18:14:43 <luke-jr> would be nice if I could build it in the first place tho ;)
975 2011-01-04 18:15:38 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: well, there is no "somebody needs to" -- this is open source, either do it yourself or get together with somebody to get it done.
976 2011-01-04 18:16:12 <gavinandresen> Then be prepared for all the crap people will fling at you because you didn't do it exactly the way they wanted youto.....
977 2011-01-04 18:17:42 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the thing is, I don't care about wx, and will readily trash it
978 2011-01-04 18:18:07 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: awesome. I think NOBODY is happy with wx (including Satoshi)
979 2011-01-04 18:18:07 <genjix> please do
980 2011-01-04 18:18:18 dwdollar has left ()
981 2011-01-04 18:18:31 <genjix> why does bitcoin even have a gui?
982 2011-01-04 18:18:34 <luke-jr> lol XD
983 2011-01-04 18:18:40 <luke-jr> genjix: for Windows users i presume
984 2011-01-04 18:19:04 <genjix> it could be a simple core, and let people write guis for it :)
985 2011-01-04 18:19:20 <luke-jr> my idea is to have a prompt at first run
986 2011-01-04 18:19:26 <genjix> like how git works
987 2011-01-04 18:19:29 <luke-jr> to connect to a remote bitcoind, or spawn a local one
988 2011-01-04 18:19:30 <genjix> bitcoin blaa
989 2011-01-04 18:19:35 <gavinandresen> I bet satoshi would agree; bitcoin didn't take off until he did the first version of the RPC and web apps could start using it.
990 2011-01-04 18:20:11 <gavinandresen> (it is easy to forget that it was chugging along for over a year before anybody really started paying attention)
991 2011-01-04 18:20:35 <genjix> yes, definitely was value then for an integrated gui.
992 2011-01-04 18:21:16 <genjix> but maybe it will hurt development now having that extra code in there.
993 2011-01-04 18:21:36 <genjix> (just my opinionated speculation)
994 2011-01-04 18:26:07 <luke-jr> yay I got bitcoin CLI to build with qmake
995 2011-01-04 18:27:04 skeledrew has joined
996 2011-01-04 18:29:13 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
997 2011-01-04 18:31:24 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
998 2011-01-04 18:35:40 <ThomasV> bitcoin CLI == the daemon ?
999 2011-01-04 18:35:43 skeledrew has joined
1000 2011-01-04 18:36:37 <genjix> yep
1001 2011-01-04 18:36:44 <luke-jr> right
1002 2011-01-04 18:38:32 <ThomasV> ah ok, I thought that perhapd you had already removed wx :-D
1003 2011-01-04 18:39:04 <luke-jr> ThomasV: remove wx = daemon/CLI
1004 2011-01-04 18:43:52 cdecker has left ()
1005 2011-01-04 18:59:05 <jgarzik> does this mean people are working on separating the GUI from "the engine"? That would be nice to have the UI using RPC for everything.
1006 2011-01-04 19:02:44 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1007 2011-01-04 19:04:30 <luke-jr> jgarzik: more like destroying the GUI, and rewriting a new one from scratch using RPC
1008 2011-01-04 19:08:02 <genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:QBitcoin
1009 2011-01-04 19:08:13 <genjix> suggestions for improving the gui
1010 2011-01-04 19:08:32 <genjix> any comments would be appreciated
1011 2011-01-04 19:09:01 lolcat has joined
1012 2011-01-04 19:09:06 <genjix> if bitcoin had a better rpc interface/seperated gui/library then i could make these changes
1013 2011-01-04 19:09:21 <genjix> because writing qt guis is easy :p
1014 2011-01-04 19:10:02 <lolcat> Does this mean I can port rutorrent to play with bitcoin?
1015 2011-01-04 19:10:45 <lolcat> Rutorrent also uses rpc
1016 2011-01-04 19:13:37 <gavinandresen> genjix: what do you need in the rpc?
1017 2011-01-04 19:14:15 <genjix> i think it was listtransactions before, but that exists now.
1018 2011-01-04 19:15:27 <genjix> well then.
1019 2011-01-04 19:16:36 <kiba> it is amusing to me that the largest thread on the forum concerns mining
1020 2011-01-04 19:17:39 <lolcat> I upgraded my ubuntu, now I can't start bitcoin :(
1021 2011-01-04 19:18:08 <luke-jr> genjix: I'm first porting the core to Qt, then writign a GUI in Qt
1022 2011-01-04 19:18:11 <luke-jr> genjix: want to help?
1023 2011-01-04 19:18:12 <gavinandresen> genjix, jgarzik: I'm reworking my monitorreceived patch, to bring it up-to-date and make it compatible with latest listtransactions. But one part of it still bugs me.
1024 2011-01-04 19:18:27 <kiba> lolcat: don't you know? upgrading ubuntu tend to break your system
1025 2011-01-04 19:18:36 <genjix> luke-jr: ill write a gui
1026 2011-01-04 19:18:45 <luke-jr> genjix: I hate SI.
1027 2011-01-04 19:18:49 <genjix> luke-jr: but MagicalTux is also making his own Qt core too
1028 2011-01-04 19:19:28 <lolcat> kiba: I know, this alpha release isnt haf as stable as I hoped too
1029 2011-01-04 19:19:38 <kiba> well
1030 2011-01-04 19:19:45 <kiba> I am on a rolling release distro
1031 2011-01-04 19:19:51 <genjix> gavinandresen: well it's not hard to change if the api changes (i hope :p)
1032 2011-01-04 19:19:55 <kiba> they are suprisingly stable even if they break sometime
1033 2011-01-04 19:20:21 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: cool :)
1034 2011-01-04 19:20:28 <gavinandresen> genjix: what bugs me is how it re-reports blocks/transactions arbitrarily at 1, 6, and 120 confirmations....
1035 2011-01-04 19:21:25 <genjix> you mean it repeats transactions?
1036 2011-01-04 19:21:51 <gavinandresen> Ok, the problem: you want to get told about transactions/blocks. "when they happen"
1037 2011-01-04 19:22:07 <gavinandresen> But "when they happen" is ill-defined, because block chain reorgs can (and do) happen.
1038 2011-01-04 19:22:15 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it's only a problem for the case where TX's change TX ids, right?
1039 2011-01-04 19:22:32 <gavinandresen> Hang on one sec, phone call....
1040 2011-01-04 19:23:42 <luke-jr> why the heck is there a bytecode interpreter in bitcoin? -.-
1041 2011-01-04 19:23:46 Bossbear has joined
1042 2011-01-04 19:24:37 <gavinandresen> ok, back.
1043 2011-01-04 19:25:21 <nathan7> luke-jr: sssh, that's for the backdoor
1044 2011-01-04 19:25:29 <luke-jr> hmm
1045 2011-01-04 19:25:48 <luke-jr> the client has a miner builtin, doesn't it? -.-
1046 2011-01-04 19:25:58 <genjix> and a frige.
1047 2011-01-04 19:26:10 <lolcat> 3.17 is my version, do I have to compile?
1048 2011-01-04 19:26:13 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I just don't like the arbitrariness of 1/6/120....
1049 2011-01-04 19:26:40 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: so... let the user site their desired point(s) ?
1050 2011-01-04 19:26:45 <jgarzik> s/site/set/
1051 2011-01-04 19:27:01 <gavinandresen> Yeah, but how? THe API gets ugly.
1052 2011-01-04 19:27:43 <gavinandresen> (and the implementation gets even uglier if I let the user say "tell me about transactions after they've got 30,000 confirmations, please...")
1053 2011-01-04 19:29:11 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: a 'monitorconfig' RPC to set / reset settings? That's how my intended usage would look. 'monitorconfig' to have it store POST URL and number-of-confirmations data in the database. the background monitor loads those settings at startup, and begins monitoring as new blocks come in.
1054 2011-01-04 19:29:32 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: of course, not everybody likes 'monitorall' the way I do
1055 2011-01-04 19:30:24 <gavinandresen> Maybe just doing monitorblocks makes the most sense. All the transactions are in the block, you can call gettransaction when you like...
1056 2011-01-04 19:30:43 <gavinandresen> ... and you can detect block chain reorgs because blocks point to previous blocks...
1057 2011-01-04 19:31:10 Bossbear has left ()
1058 2011-01-04 19:31:12 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yeah I would send just enough info to know to clal gettranaction
1059 2011-01-04 19:31:13 <gavinandresen> ... and a GUI will probably just call listtransactions '*' to update #confirmations when a new block is accepted....
1060 2011-01-04 19:31:27 <jgarzik> agree
1061 2011-01-04 19:32:07 <gavinandresen> Ok, I think I like that.
1062 2011-01-04 19:32:38 <gavinandresen> Lots easier to code, too.
1063 2011-01-04 19:34:01 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: no way to parse a block without 'getblockbycount' patch though, right?
1064 2011-01-04 19:34:13 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: "I have a new block!" + "listtransactions '*'" seems coarse
1065 2011-01-04 19:34:40 <gavinandresen> monitorblock will give you block details. Doing getblock at the same time makes sense.
1066 2011-01-04 19:35:25 <genjix> why not timestamp/store each transaction? is that possible?
1067 2011-01-04 19:35:33 <gavinandresen> So the new api would be: monitorblocks <url> true/false to send info about new accepted blocks (txids, etc....)
1068 2011-01-04 19:35:40 <genjix> (assuming i understand the problem here right)
1069 2011-01-04 19:35:49 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: at a minimum you'd need a list of transactions in the block (for later gettransaction)
1070 2011-01-04 19:35:53 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: that API seems easy enough
1071 2011-01-04 19:35:56 <jackmcbarn> what nice level exactly does generation run at?
1072 2011-01-04 19:36:02 <gavinandresen> and getblock <hash|depth> to ask for same information you'll get from monitorblocks
1073 2011-01-04 19:36:15 <gavinandresen> jackmcbarn: 16 (nicest)
1074 2011-01-04 19:36:21 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: that works
1075 2011-01-04 19:36:50 <gavinandresen> genjix: hmm? wallet transactions are timestamped/stored.
1076 2011-01-04 19:37:06 <gavinandresen> genjix: and there's already gettransaction <hash> API call
1077 2011-01-04 19:37:11 <jgarzik> the RPC API typing in CommandLineRPC() makes "multi-parameters" like that a bit complicated
1078 2011-01-04 19:37:50 <jgarzik> ie. where param[1] can be number or string. sure, it's easy enough to parse in the RPC implementation itself.... but I dunno if that would give satoshi the grumps.
1079 2011-01-04 19:37:57 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: oh, yeah, forgot about that... I'd hacked it so <hash|depth> was always a JSON string.
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1081 2011-01-04 19:40:46 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: thinking about it.... getblock <depth> is probably always what you want. getinfo returns depth, and getting a random block hash from the internet and asking for THAT block might now work (if it was an orphan that your client didn't happen to see)
1082 2011-01-04 19:40:55 <gavinandresen> ^now^not
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1084 2011-01-04 19:41:11 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: that's what getblockbycount currently does (depth)
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1090 2011-01-04 19:50:38 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, well, not in the mainstream client at least...
1091 2011-01-04 19:50:58 <UukGoblin> also, I wonder if the json-rpc interface's float is prone to rounding errors
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1098 2011-01-04 20:05:14 <brocktice> So this is kind of OT... but it's nice living in the future. Need to upgrade to 16GB of RAM. Only $200. Amazing.
1099 2011-01-04 20:05:28 <luke-jr> "only"
1100 2011-01-04 20:06:00 <brocktice> luke-jr: Considering how much RAM I got for $200 in 1999 it's pretty damned good.
1101 2011-01-04 20:10:57 Bossbear has joined
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1103 2011-01-04 20:16:00 <UukGoblin> brocktice, worry not, it's often hard to find a non-OT discussion here
1104 2011-01-04 20:16:15 <brocktice> UukGoblin: Well, the topic is pretty broad
1105 2011-01-04 20:16:25 <brocktice> and computers are nominally related to bitcoins :)
1106 2011-01-04 20:17:13 <UukGoblin> indeed :-]
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1110 2011-01-04 20:47:10 <DjeZAeL> seems there is a pb with the worker on my server :(
1111 2011-01-04 20:47:39 <DjeZAeL> on my account page, never seen "current shares" with another thing than "0"
1112 2011-01-04 20:47:53 <marioxcc> what is it?
1113 2011-01-04 20:48:30 <DjeZAeL> the cpuminer
1114 2011-01-04 20:49:01 <DjeZAeL> the one on my laptop works correctly, i see current shares on my profile, but nor for the cpuminer on my server
1115 2011-01-04 20:49:44 <marioxcc> but what's the problem?
1116 2011-01-04 20:49:50 <marioxcc> what do you see if not the shares
1117 2011-01-04 20:50:24 <DjeZAeL> i never had womething else than null in the "current shares" area on my profile page
1118 2011-01-04 20:50:43 <DjeZAeL> and no mhashes/s
1119 2011-01-04 20:51:53 <DjeZAeL> whereas my laptop is slower than my server and has "current shares" (2) and Mhashes/s
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1125 2011-01-04 21:05:14 <EvanR-work> whoa nice graphics on mining.bitcoin.cz
1126 2011-01-04 21:05:37 <EvanR-work> amounting to 3 lines of CSS ;)
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1133 2011-01-04 21:22:06 <brocktice> BAH
1134 2011-01-04 21:22:14 <brocktice> there is no 'race' to get the next block
1135 2011-01-04 21:22:26 <brocktice> I mean, yes, there is a race to be THE next block
1136 2011-01-04 21:22:39 <brocktice> but someone else getting the next block doesn't normally affect your own chances.
1137 2011-01-04 21:23:49 <sipa> indeed
1138 2011-01-04 21:25:30 Bth8 has joined
1139 2011-01-04 21:34:17 <EvanR-work> roll the dice
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1154 2011-01-04 22:27:45 <slush> ;;seen m0mchil
1155 2011-01-04 22:27:45 <gribble> m0mchil was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <m0mchil> hi sneak, is your presentation available online?
1156 2011-01-04 22:27:55 <sneak> hi
1157 2011-01-04 22:28:08 <sneak> derp
1158 2011-01-04 22:28:12 <slush> :)
1159 2011-01-04 22:33:38 riush has joined
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1161 2011-01-04 22:42:08 <brocktice> sneak: how'd that go?
1162 2011-01-04 22:43:13 <sneak> it went really really well
1163 2011-01-04 22:43:23 <sneak> i had to rush the last 3-4 minutes because i ran out of time
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1165 2011-01-04 22:45:14 <nanotube> hey sneak so any exciting stories? :)
1166 2011-01-04 22:46:12 <slush> ;;any m0mchil
1167 2011-01-04 22:46:13 <gribble> m0mchil was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 hours, 36 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: *** m0mchil <m0mchil!~m0mchil@unaffiliated/m0mchil> has parted #bitcoin-dev
1168 2011-01-04 22:55:37 <sneak> nanotube: about what?
1169 2011-01-04 23:01:12 <nanotube> weren't you giving a presentation on bitcoin?
1170 2011-01-04 23:03:15 <sneak> yeah
1171 2011-01-04 23:03:27 <sneak> bitcoin and other stuff
1172 2011-01-04 23:03:32 <sneak> basically, applications of digital cash
1173 2011-01-04 23:03:38 <sneak> with bitcoin and a tor hidden service
1174 2011-01-04 23:03:42 <sneak> and rubber gloves and stamps
1175 2011-01-04 23:03:46 <sneak> you can be an anonymous retailer now
1176 2011-01-04 23:04:06 <sneak> no 'exciting stories' though
1177 2011-01-04 23:04:18 <sneak> just talked about bitcoin, pecunix, lr, pktp
1178 2011-01-04 23:04:25 <sneak> exchangezone, mtgox, tor
1179 2011-01-04 23:04:43 <sneak> also why it's important, using wikileaks and steve bierfeldt as examples
1180 2011-01-04 23:07:29 <nanotube> cool.is there a webcast somewhere?
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1184 2011-01-04 23:38:40 <slush> wow, now I found that jgarzik's miner is _not_ asking for work until he does not crunch whole nonce space
1185 2011-01-04 23:38:42 james_ has joined
1186 2011-01-04 23:39:12 <slush> I didn't spot it before...
1187 2011-01-04 23:39:47 <marioxcc> slush: what's the difference to other miners in this regard?
1188 2011-01-04 23:40:35 <slush> marioxcc: when slow miner finally crunch valid block (after one year or more), there is high probability that bitcoin block has changed during last work...
1189 2011-01-04 23:40:50 <slush> ..and block will be rejected by network
1190 2011-01-04 23:41:12 <marioxcc> mine finishes threads in some seconds
1191 2011-01-04 23:41:19 <slush> the best idea is to throw away work every 5 seconds or so
1192 2011-01-04 23:41:25 <marioxcc> ok
1193 2011-01-04 23:41:33 <slush> marioxcc: depends on cpu power, of course
1194 2011-01-04 23:41:42 <marioxcc> well, thats approximately the time it takes on mine
1195 2011-01-04 23:41:43 <marioxcc> :)
1196 2011-01-04 23:41:45 <slush> My intel atom crunching full nonce exactly one minute :)
1197 2011-01-04 23:41:51 <marioxcc> hehe
1198 2011-01-04 23:42:09 <marioxcc> but is really worth the electricy consuption and wear and tear?
1199 2011-01-04 23:42:09 <slush> so 10% probability that block will be invalid
1200 2011-01-04 23:42:15 <marioxcc> maybe
1201 2011-01-04 23:42:59 <marioxcc> i just stopped to mine, decided it is not worth to have the CPU at 70+ °C just for less than a bitcoin a day
1202 2011-01-04 23:43:33 <slush> I'm not using Atom for mining, it's just for compatibility tests
1203 2011-01-04 23:43:36 <slush> with pool
1204 2011-01-04 23:43:37 <marioxcc> ok
1205 2011-01-04 23:47:25 <nanotube> slush: when i was mining on my core, it was maybe 20sec per chunk... which is pretty reasonable
1206 2011-01-04 23:47:33 <marioxcc> slush: what do you do if a client sends a block with a hash<target when it is no loger valid?
1207 2011-01-04 23:47:36 <marioxcc> *longer
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