1 2011-01-08 00:08:22 <luke-jr> xelister: switch to Linux ;)
2 2011-01-08 00:09:55 <xelister> luke-jr: on linux
3 2011-01-08 00:10:04 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4 2011-01-08 00:10:08 <xelister> it also sucked on windows. They just can't write good drivers apparently
5 2011-01-08 00:12:00 EvanR-work has quit (Disconnected by services)
6 2011-01-08 00:12:11 <luke-jr> xelister: if you're running ATI software, you're not running Linux
7 2011-01-08 00:12:11 EvanR is now known as EvanR-Work
8 2011-01-08 00:12:16 <luke-jr> but merely a proprietary derivative of Linux
9 2011-01-08 00:12:22 <luke-jr> switch to real Linux âº
10 2011-01-08 00:12:29 <xelister> real linux can't do opencl on radeon
11 2011-01-08 00:12:39 <xelister> nor 3d
12 2011-01-08 00:12:50 EvanR-Work is now known as EvanR
13 2011-01-08 00:12:55 <luke-jr> it can do 3D fine
14 2011-01-08 00:13:00 <xelister> so it's almost as using Trident 3D
15 2011-01-08 00:13:10 <xelister> or S3 Virge something
16 2011-01-08 00:13:13 <luke-jr> nope
17 2011-01-08 00:13:21 <luke-jr> it can do 3D good enough for games
18 2011-01-08 00:13:24 <xelister> hmm
19 2011-01-08 00:13:39 <xelister> ok perhaps. but it has long way to go, and fails at opencl
20 2011-01-08 00:15:46 int0x27h has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
21 2011-01-08 00:17:42 EvanR is now known as EvanR-work
22 2011-01-08 00:20:17 int0x27h has joined
23 2011-01-08 00:20:24 EvanR-work is now known as EvanR
24 2011-01-08 00:26:24 <da2ce7> aussie summer hear + 5970 = bad stuff
25 2011-01-08 00:27:13 <da2ce7> was 1.050V @ 800mhz @ 96C
26 2011-01-08 00:27:35 <Diablo-D3> anything over 85c == your shits fucked, really
27 2011-01-08 00:28:00 <da2ce7> now I'm at 1.025V @ 730mhz @ 90C
28 2011-01-08 00:28:05 <da2ce7> so it is a little better
29 2011-01-08 00:28:11 <slush> da2ce7: 96 on chip or on voltage regulators?
30 2011-01-08 00:29:06 <da2ce7> chip, VDDC were 110C, now 99C
31 2011-01-08 00:29:19 <Diablo-D3> eeeeh
32 2011-01-08 00:29:28 <slush> hm, my VDDC is 106 now :(
33 2011-01-08 00:29:33 <Diablo-D3> thats uncomfortably high imo.
34 2011-01-08 00:29:46 <da2ce7> no crash yet. Furmark still runs without crashing.
35 2011-01-08 00:29:48 <slush> but I'll move my miner to garage this week :))
36 2011-01-08 00:30:00 james has joined
37 2011-01-08 00:30:10 <slush> (-15oC now)
38 2011-01-08 00:30:26 james is now known as Guest97713
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40 2011-01-08 00:30:34 <da2ce7> just wasn't conftable with running my card at 96C, 90C is much better.
41 2011-01-08 00:31:41 <slush> interesting. my gpu is on 81oC, but VDCC on 106. Much bigger difference than you said
42 2011-01-08 00:33:14 <da2ce7> hmm, I'm putting out so much less wattage @ 1.025V
43 2011-01-08 00:33:28 EvanR is now known as EvanR-work
44 2011-01-08 00:33:51 <slush> 1.025 is default, isn't it?
45 2011-01-08 00:33:55 <slush> I did not changed voltage
46 2011-01-08 00:34:00 EvanR-work is now known as EvanR
47 2011-01-08 00:34:11 <da2ce7> nope. 1.050V is default
48 2011-01-08 00:34:15 <da2ce7> I beleve
49 2011-01-08 00:34:41 <slush> oh
50 2011-01-08 00:34:59 <da2ce7> anyway, slush, Your pooled miner is over 10GH/s
51 2011-01-08 00:35:00 <da2ce7> :D
52 2011-01-08 00:35:02 <slush> so I don't understand why my VDCC is so fucking hot
53 2011-01-08 00:35:18 <da2ce7> may be faulity.
54 2011-01-08 00:35:19 <slush> yep, it is growing so fast...
55 2011-01-08 00:35:42 <da2ce7> that is what happend to my other 5970, the VDCC melted.
56 2011-01-08 00:35:51 <da2ce7> (now it is in repar)
57 2011-01-08 00:37:28 <slush> Did you applied warranty?
58 2011-01-08 00:39:40 <slush> I'm affraid that my 5970 crash and then guy in shop tell me that warranty is broken because I overclocked it a little :)
59 2011-01-08 00:40:11 <Diablo-D3> the VDCC is so fucking hot because they're dumbasses
60 2011-01-08 00:40:18 <Diablo-D3> they need _more_ VRMs
61 2011-01-08 00:41:42 <da2ce7> well, if I run 1.05V @ 800 the VDDC Current is 47.9A
62 2011-01-08 00:42:12 <da2ce7> at 1.025 @ 730 the VDDC current is 41.8 A
63 2011-01-08 00:42:29 <slush> wtf I'm on 54A?
64 2011-01-08 00:43:01 <da2ce7> yeah, your card is like the card that died for me.
65 2011-01-08 00:43:02 <da2ce7> :P
66 2011-01-08 00:43:11 <slush> :/
67 2011-01-08 00:43:27 <da2ce7> I took 2weeks of hot weather to kill it.
68 2011-01-08 00:44:05 <da2ce7> (just trying furmakr, if I drop out, my computer has crashed)
69 2011-01-08 00:44:12 <noagendamarket> Yes it has been hot :)
70 2011-01-08 00:44:28 <slush> I see I'm on 1.05V. omg, how can I reset it to default voltage? :-D
71 2011-01-08 00:44:39 <Diablo-D3> heh
72 2011-01-08 00:44:48 <Diablo-D3> Im trying to overclock my 4850
73 2011-01-08 00:44:52 <sipa> slush: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/speed-bpm.pdf
74 2011-01-08 00:44:54 <da2ce7> slush, that is the default voltage
75 2011-01-08 00:44:55 <da2ce7> !
76 2011-01-08 00:44:55 <Diablo-D3> I made it to 700 mhz from the default 625
77 2011-01-08 00:45:00 <Diablo-D3> 57c to 72c
78 2011-01-08 00:45:00 <Diablo-D3> and
79 2011-01-08 00:45:04 <Diablo-D3> I ran out of slider.
80 2011-01-08 00:45:14 <Diablo-D3> 700 mhz just isnt fast enough to cook it
81 2011-01-08 00:45:35 <slush> oh, sorry. I though 1.025 is default
82 2011-01-08 00:45:45 <da2ce7> I'm testing 750mhz @ 1.025V
83 2011-01-08 00:46:15 <slush> da2ce7: what tool are you using for voltage changes?
84 2011-01-08 00:46:24 <da2ce7> MSI afterburner...
85 2011-01-08 00:46:28 <da2ce7> but that is for windows.
86 2011-01-08 00:46:34 <slush> yep, I'm also on win
87 2011-01-08 00:46:43 <da2ce7> it is a great program
88 2011-01-08 00:46:44 <slush> It was simplest way, windows was installed here
89 2011-01-08 00:47:06 <da2ce7> Furmark, 50.5A
90 2011-01-08 00:49:06 <slush> thanks da2ce7, I'll try it
91 2011-01-08 00:49:24 <da2ce7> my asus card could run stable at 1V
92 2011-01-08 00:51:41 <da2ce7> use furmark to test stablity, if the temputure gets stable, then your card is stable (rule of thumb)
93 2011-01-08 00:54:00 <slush> great. Using CCC I had troubles with computer freezing during tests. Restarting for every try was annoying. Is this somehow solved in Afterburner?
94 2011-01-08 00:55:42 <da2ce7> dont' use the tests in CCC, they suck bigtime
95 2011-01-08 00:55:51 <Diablo-D3> Sensor 0: Temperature - 69.00 C
96 2011-01-08 00:55:53 <Diablo-D3> at 700mhz
97 2011-01-08 00:55:54 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit ati
98 2011-01-08 00:55:57 <Diablo-D3> let me go further!
99 2011-01-08 00:55:59 <da2ce7> furmark is by-far the best test
100 2011-01-08 00:56:17 <slush> da2ce7: I know that. I cut 30mhash/s for many weeks just because I forgot to close CCC window :))
101 2011-01-08 00:56:59 <slush> sipa: Nice :)
102 2011-01-08 00:57:09 <da2ce7> slush, I dont' even use CCC other than setting up my monitor.
103 2011-01-08 00:57:30 <slush> great, I use VNC so I can uninstall that crap completely :-D
104 2011-01-08 00:58:02 <sipa> slush: there's a problem with the current algorithm that causes some inaccuracies near the edges of the domain (so the estimate near the end is probably quite wrong)
105 2011-01-08 00:58:24 <slush> sipa: is pdf generated automatically?
106 2011-01-08 00:58:29 <sipa> no
107 2011-01-08 00:58:30 <sipa> not yet :)
108 2011-01-08 00:58:45 <bonsaikitten> midnightmagic: as far as I remember any byzantine generals problem can tolerate 1/3rd cheaters
109 2011-01-08 00:59:00 <bonsaikitten> if you could prove 1/2 you'd make a lot of people very unhappy
110 2011-01-08 00:59:36 <slush> sipa: I don't think the edges are inaccurate. Pool was really near 14ghash for a moment
111 2011-01-08 00:59:47 <da2ce7> slush, oh yeah, in afterburner you can make you own fan-temp curves. :)
112 2011-01-08 00:59:52 <slush> oh, it _is_ near 14 ghash
113 2011-01-08 01:00:37 <slush> da2ce7: hehe, nice :)
114 2011-01-08 01:00:53 <slush> I'm using fan on fixed 70% now
115 2011-01-08 01:01:42 <da2ce7> hmm, I have my vaiable, when it get to 0% @ 50C; 100% @ 80C
116 2011-01-08 01:02:29 <slush> btw what about dust? Does card need cleaning inside?
117 2011-01-08 01:02:45 <da2ce7> na, Filters on air intake to case.
118 2011-01-08 01:03:08 <slush> hm, my case is open
119 2011-01-08 01:03:53 james_ has joined
120 2011-01-08 01:04:07 Guest97713 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
121 2011-01-08 01:05:53 <sipa> ;;bc,mtgox
122 2011-01-08 01:05:53 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.322,"low":0.2979,"vol":42476,"buy":0.3092,"sell":0.315,"last":0.3229}}
123 2011-01-08 01:06:21 <da2ce7> http://hosting11.imagecross.com/image-hosting-58/4918fann-temp.png
124 2011-01-08 01:06:33 <da2ce7> 42470 vol
125 2011-01-08 01:06:38 <da2ce7> things are starting to move.
126 2011-01-08 01:06:54 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
127 2011-01-08 01:08:47 <slush> nice. I have new mobo for miner, so I'll rebuild computer tomorrow, reinstall all the stuff and get a try for afterburner & furmark
128 2011-01-08 01:10:03 <da2ce7> yeah, I've been buying coins more than generating...
129 2011-01-08 01:10:53 <sipa> you should
130 2011-01-08 01:11:08 <sipa> it's about more than generating :)
131 2011-01-08 01:11:39 <da2ce7> I've been trying to keep the 1:1 rato between generation and purchaseing.
132 2011-01-08 01:12:29 <da2ce7> but now it is a more like 2:3 in favour of purchased
133 2011-01-08 01:13:33 <kartofeln> do you need an actual MSI motherboard to use afterburner?
134 2011-01-08 01:18:25 <kartofeln> apparently not. neato.
135 2011-01-08 01:19:03 <da2ce7> nope, but I would buy MSI, they make good products.
136 2011-01-08 01:19:22 <kartofeln> darn. this makes overclocking ridiculously easy.
137 2011-01-08 01:19:38 <kartofeln> burn, gpu, burn!
138 2011-01-08 01:20:36 <da2ce7> lol, be carefull, you may end up with a $500 of not working VDDC's.
139 2011-01-08 01:21:30 <kartofeln> nah I'm safe. I can only end up with $120 of burnt sand.
140 2011-01-08 01:22:43 <da2ce7> good a good-enough PSU? If that dies it can take out your entire system
141 2011-01-08 01:22:59 <kartofeln> hmm. a fair point.
142 2011-01-08 01:24:23 <da2ce7> I recomend enermax :) But I'm paranoid.
143 2011-01-08 01:25:53 <kartofeln> w00t. my card doesn't like being overclocked from 850 to 960 mhz.
144 2011-01-08 01:26:44 <da2ce7> lol, I wouldn't expect so, Remever Power v.s. clockspeed is non-linear
145 2011-01-08 01:27:49 <kartofeln> it didn't crash everything though.. just went dark. then light green, then vista politely told me that my video driver had given up the ghost.
146 2011-01-08 01:28:19 <kartofeln> apparently while it was doing that, the card temperature dropped from 85 to 52.. my BTC miner basically froze dead.
147 2011-01-08 01:29:06 <kartofeln> maybe I just needed more voltage >:)
148 2011-01-08 01:33:40 <kartofeln> so talking GPU... my card is supposed to have 10 cores for use by openCL, and it being fed an average of 2.6 million threads at a time by the miner. does it mean each GPU core grinds through around 260,000 kernel iteration on every cl.search() call?
149 2011-01-08 01:34:47 <kartofeln> if so, I'm not sure I understand why a GPU core is apparently so much faster than a CPU core than run at 3x the clock speed.
150 2011-01-08 01:35:05 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: you have it wrong
151 2011-01-08 01:35:14 <Diablo-D3> you have maybe 800 hardware threads
152 2011-01-08 01:35:16 <Diablo-D3> instead of 2 or 4.
153 2011-01-08 01:35:42 <Diablo-D3> so your gpu is working on 800 unique nonces at once
154 2011-01-08 01:35:48 <kartofeln> oh ok. so it's a lot more than 10 hardware thingies running my code at a time.
155 2011-01-08 01:35:48 <Diablo-D3> your cpu does 2 or 4.
156 2011-01-08 01:35:53 <Diablo-D3> yes.
157 2011-01-08 01:36:05 <Diablo-D3> compute units only manage sets of hardware threads
158 2011-01-08 01:36:05 <kartofeln> how would I find this 800 number for my card?
159 2011-01-08 01:36:12 <Diablo-D3> and those threads are also pipelined
160 2011-01-08 01:36:50 <Diablo-D3> it also doesnt matter how many your card has
161 2011-01-08 01:37:08 <kartofeln> is it related at all to the amount of shader cores?
162 2011-01-08 01:37:13 <Diablo-D3> yes.
163 2011-01-08 01:37:58 Animeking has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
164 2011-01-08 01:38:08 <kartofeln> if someone were to adapt BitCoinMiner.cl into GLSL, would the shader code effectively be using the exact same hardware resources as the openCL kernel?
165 2011-01-08 01:38:13 <Diablo-D3> no.
166 2011-01-08 01:38:18 <kartofeln> :(
167 2011-01-08 01:38:26 <Diablo-D3> that wouldnt make any sense
168 2011-01-08 01:38:28 Animeking has joined
169 2011-01-08 01:38:34 <kartofeln> define "sense" ;)
170 2011-01-08 01:38:40 <Diablo-D3> glsl and cl run on the same unified shader cores
171 2011-01-08 01:38:44 <Diablo-D3> but they're different languages
172 2011-01-08 01:38:51 <Diablo-D3> theres no reasonable way to do this in glsl
173 2011-01-08 01:39:16 <kartofeln> I'm wondering if one could build a purely browser-based miner that wouldn't suck.
174 2011-01-08 01:39:22 <kartofeln> presumably using webGL shaders.
175 2011-01-08 01:39:42 <Diablo-D3> nope.
176 2011-01-08 01:39:48 <lfm> kartofeln it would suck
177 2011-01-08 01:39:52 <Diablo-D3> and btw, theres no such thing as "webgl shaders"
178 2011-01-08 01:40:03 <Diablo-D3> webgl is a javascript wrapper for the opengl api
179 2011-01-08 01:40:07 <kartofeln> well, fragment shaders defined from webgl.
180 2011-01-08 01:40:36 <kartofeln> ok.. what makes it unreasonable/sucky?
181 2011-01-08 01:40:58 <kartofeln> is it purely that shaders can't return values, unless as part of a generated bitmap?
182 2011-01-08 01:41:37 <Diablo-D3> that in itself isnt entirely true.
183 2011-01-08 01:41:44 <Diablo-D3> its juist that glsl was never meant to handle this.
184 2011-01-08 01:42:04 <kartofeln> well, that's what makes it an awesome idea! ;)
185 2011-01-08 01:42:10 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt
186 2011-01-08 01:42:14 <Diablo-D3> this is why opencl was designed
187 2011-01-08 01:42:18 <Diablo-D3> to do this.
188 2011-01-08 01:42:26 <kartofeln> yes yes. except openCL isn't everywhere yet.
189 2011-01-08 01:42:31 <Diablo-D3> glsl doesnt have the appropriate functionality to make it work
190 2011-01-08 01:42:34 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: yes it is
191 2011-01-08 01:42:55 <Diablo-D3> opencl works on radeon 4000 and above and geforce 8000 and above
192 2011-01-08 01:43:00 <Diablo-D3> thats pretty much everywhere
193 2011-01-08 01:43:15 <kartofeln> c'mon.. you know it'd be neat in some horrible hackish kind of way.
194 2011-01-08 01:43:17 <lfm> intel comming soon
195 2011-01-08 01:44:08 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: I think you misunderstood
196 2011-01-08 01:44:17 <Diablo-D3> opencl was designed because glsl CANT DO THIS
197 2011-01-08 01:44:25 <Diablo-D3> people have been trying to do shit like this for years
198 2011-01-08 01:44:29 <Diablo-D3> glsl is very badly designed for this
199 2011-01-08 01:44:30 <lfm> even if it was neat in some horrible hackish sort of way, it would still suck
200 2011-01-08 01:44:38 <kartofeln> :'(
201 2011-01-08 01:44:45 <kartofeln> fine. crush my dreams.
202 2011-01-08 01:45:13 <kartofeln> but crush them precisely please.. what is lacking in glsl to do this?
203 2011-01-08 01:45:18 <lfm> yes, kartofeln's dreams and unicorns
204 2011-01-08 01:45:48 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: for one, the glsl compiler wont produce the ops
205 2011-01-08 01:46:01 <Diablo-D3> and its a large pita to boil the results down reasonably
206 2011-01-08 01:46:13 <kartofeln> I understand the later, but not the former.
207 2011-01-08 01:46:23 <kartofeln> I wouldn't be able to fit sha256 in a glsl shader?
208 2011-01-08 01:46:28 <lfm> 32bit rotates?
209 2011-01-08 01:46:37 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: fit? that isnt the issue
210 2011-01-08 01:46:40 <Diablo-D3> the ops are missing.
211 2011-01-08 01:47:15 <kartofeln> rotations can be emulated.. couple of shifts, a pinch of and..
212 2011-01-08 01:47:46 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: you fail at compiler design forever.
213 2011-01-08 01:47:58 <lfm> 32 bit addition also
214 2011-01-08 01:48:15 <lfm> you start emulating things and you get real slow real soon
215 2011-01-08 01:48:30 <Diablo-D3> the hardware already does the shit we need
216 2011-01-08 01:48:32 <kartofeln> there's a uint type in there.. I haven't tested them extensively yet, but I thought I'd get basic stuff like add to work on it
217 2011-01-08 01:48:39 <Diablo-D3> glsl just doesnt use the ops for it
218 2011-01-08 01:48:48 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure if glsl CAN use the ops for it
219 2011-01-08 01:48:54 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: trust me, its a bad idea
220 2011-01-08 01:49:12 <lfm> and why bother when you have opencl
221 2011-01-08 01:50:31 <kartofeln> ok, so the glsl compiler will give me crap opcodes compared to opencl, and I won't have a good way to get the results.
222 2011-01-08 01:51:16 james has joined
223 2011-01-08 01:51:42 <lfm> and it will be so slow that no one will want to use it
224 2011-01-08 01:51:43 james is now known as Guest86404
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227 2011-01-08 02:04:46 lucky has left ("Leaving...")
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232 2011-01-08 02:36:31 <da2ce7> is there a 'This Bitcoin Wikipage has a bounty!' template yet?
233 2011-01-08 02:37:15 <da2ce7> if not, I make a 5BTC bounty to make one!
234 2011-01-08 02:37:17 <da2ce7> :S
235 2011-01-08 02:37:18 <da2ce7> :D
236 2011-01-08 02:38:37 <newsham> diablo: around?
237 2011-01-08 02:40:33 <noagendamarket> good idea da2ce7
238 2011-01-08 02:40:33 <slush> Diablo-D3: ping
239 2011-01-08 02:41:31 <Diablo-D3> slush: what
240 2011-01-08 02:41:52 <slush> Diablo-D3: newsham
241 2011-01-08 02:42:04 <Diablo-D3> sigh
242 2011-01-08 02:42:11 <Diablo-D3> newsham: what
243 2011-01-08 02:42:30 <newsham> diablo: I ran your gpu miner program and it segfaulted after printing a few messages. this is on a ubuntu 10.04 box in 64bit mode with an nvidia card, using the stock files that came with the nvidia driver.
244 2011-01-08 02:42:39 noagendamarket has left ()
245 2011-01-08 02:42:55 <Diablo-D3> newsham: sounds like you didnt install the right packages
246 2011-01-08 02:43:02 <Diablo-D3> your messages are probably "cant find opencl"
247 2011-01-08 02:43:17 <newsham> no, not those. i did have those before installing the nvidia driver.
248 2011-01-08 02:43:27 <newsham> there are opencl files around now, ie in /usr/local/nvidia-current/CL/cl.h
249 2011-01-08 02:43:31 <Diablo-D3> okay lets try it this way
250 2011-01-08 02:43:46 <Diablo-D3> does m0's miner work?
251 2011-01-08 02:44:19 <newsham> i havent tried his
252 2011-01-08 02:44:42 <newsham> messages were "started" "added nvs 3100M (#1) (2 CU, local work size of 512)
253 2011-01-08 02:44:47 <newsham> "waiting... segmentation fault"
254 2011-01-08 02:45:00 <newsham> i have core file, backtrace was mostly in /usr/lib/nvidia-current/libcuda.so
255 2011-01-08 02:45:32 <Diablo-D3> sounds like you're just using a broken driver release then
256 2011-01-08 02:45:38 <Diablo-D3> go upgrade to the newest one
257 2011-01-08 02:45:45 <Diablo-D3> and no, I cant fix it
258 2011-01-08 02:45:50 <Diablo-D3> nvidia needs to learn how to code
259 2011-01-08 02:45:56 <newsham> its the stock one that comes from ubuntu 10.04.
260 2011-01-08 02:46:11 <Diablo-D3> so? ubuntu is known to not keep drivers up to date
261 2011-01-08 02:46:41 <newsham> so you recommend getting latest drivers from nvidia and compiling/installing then?
262 2011-01-08 02:46:46 <lfm> newsham can you try ubuntu 10.10? I use it ok
263 2011-01-08 02:47:08 memefilter has joined
264 2011-01-08 02:47:22 <newsham> i was thinking about that.. might be the easiest way to go since i heard 10.10 has opencl
265 2011-01-08 02:47:45 <newsham> are you using 10.10 on 32bit or 64bit?
266 2011-01-08 02:48:03 <lfm> well it seems you managed to get at least part of opencl running already but it might work better from 10.10
267 2011-01-08 02:48:17 <lfm> I am using both 32 and 64 bit
268 2011-01-08 02:49:36 james has joined
269 2011-01-08 02:49:45 <newsham> i'm gonna try grabbing newer drivers from nvidia first, if that fails i'll prob upgrade to 10.10
270 2011-01-08 02:49:58 <lfm> k good luck
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273 2011-01-08 02:52:48 * tcatm just sent bitcoins from his android phone to a QR encoded bitcoin address
274 2011-01-08 02:53:04 <kartofeln> do I sense an android app under development?
275 2011-01-08 02:53:20 <tcatm> http://tcatm.github.com/bitcoin-js-remote/
276 2011-01-08 02:53:33 <kartofeln> ah neat. so wifi, I presume?
277 2011-01-08 02:53:38 <tcatm> yep
278 2011-01-08 03:17:19 memefilter has quit (Quit: Leaving)
279 2011-01-08 03:23:47 Guest20181 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
280 2011-01-08 03:25:47 james_ has joined
281 2011-01-08 03:26:21 <newsham> do gpu miners and cpu miners coexist on the same box well?
282 2011-01-08 03:26:27 <newsham> (they use different resources, right?)
283 2011-01-08 03:27:11 <lfm> newsham yup, although the cpu miners are still not generally power efficient
284 2011-01-08 03:27:40 <newsham> lfm: what about the difference in power consumption of box on running gpu miner vs. box on running gpu miner plus cpu miner?
285 2011-01-08 03:27:41 <kartofeln> your cpu miner output might look like a rounding error compared to your gpu output.
286 2011-01-08 03:27:51 <newsham> heh
287 2011-01-08 03:28:29 <tcatm> a CPU miner might even increase latency for the GPU miner so total hashrate will be lower than GPU-only
288 2011-01-08 03:28:53 <kartofeln> seriously.. I get more hashes by slightly overclocking my GPU than by running on 4 CPU cores.
289 2011-01-08 03:29:26 <alowm> weak hd4850 gpu > four miner threads on core i7 quad
290 2011-01-08 03:29:39 Vaerros has joined
291 2011-01-08 03:29:47 <alowm> 16,000 khash vs 5,000 khash
292 2011-01-08 03:33:31 theymos has joined
293 2011-01-08 03:33:38 <alowm> and, yes, probably quite a big difference in energy consumption, too
294 2011-01-08 03:33:42 <alowm> core i7 is hungry
295 2011-01-08 03:35:03 <lfm> ok I got a q6600 with a radeon HD5770. idle it runs 132watts, mining with the cpu only (bitcoind) it runs 205W, with the GPU only it si 217W, with both it is 290W
296 2011-01-08 03:35:56 <kartofeln> neat. your numbers add up perfectly.
297 2011-01-08 03:36:02 <alowm> very nice
298 2011-01-08 03:36:12 james__ has joined
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300 2011-01-08 03:36:36 <lfm> the cpu with 4 threads mining produce about 4500 khash/s, the gpu produses 156000khash/s
301 2011-01-08 03:37:16 <alowm> which gpu miner are you using?
302 2011-01-08 03:37:22 <lfm> diablo's
303 2011-01-08 03:37:48 <lfm> on ubuntu 10-10 amd64
304 2011-01-08 03:38:06 <Diablo-D3> btw, its not recommended to cpu mine while gpu mining
305 2011-01-08 03:38:11 <Diablo-D3> it usually unacceptably slows gpu mining
306 2011-01-08 03:38:13 <kartofeln> I get 160 on same GPU by using -w 128 -f 30 -v.. but any/all video/animation on the screen get slowed to 30fps.
307 2011-01-08 03:38:32 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: except -v is not used.
308 2011-01-08 03:39:08 <kartofeln> you don't use vectors in your version?
309 2011-01-08 03:39:15 <Diablo-D3> no point anymore
310 2011-01-08 03:39:32 <kartofeln> At one point, I thought I'd make things vastly faster by using bigger vectors.. apparently vectors don't work that way.
311 2011-01-08 03:39:39 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: no
312 2011-01-08 03:39:47 <Diablo-D3> on radeon 4xxx that was masking a compiler bug
313 2011-01-08 03:40:02 <Diablo-D3> properly written opencl compilers will already autovectorize if it can
314 2011-01-08 03:40:17 <kartofeln> but the 2 uint vector is giving a significant hashrate change on my 5770.
315 2011-01-08 03:40:21 <kartofeln> from 140 to 160
316 2011-01-08 03:40:35 <Diablo-D3> it shouldnt
317 2011-01-08 03:40:44 <kartofeln> and then it starts going back down with 3 uints, even worse with 4 uints.
318 2011-01-08 03:41:06 <newsham> diablo/lfm: i uninstalled the ubuntu provided nvidia driver and installed the latest from nvidia.com and diablo miner isnt segfaulting now.
319 2011-01-08 03:41:06 <Diablo-D3> also, -w 64 should be faster than 128
320 2011-01-08 03:41:16 <Diablo-D3> newsham: see? driver bug.
321 2011-01-08 03:41:16 <newsham> on ubuntu 10.04, amd64.
322 2011-01-08 03:41:32 <newsham> diablo: *nod*. confirmation. might be useful if someone else asks same question later..
323 2011-01-08 03:41:35 <lfm> newsham thats good
324 2011-01-08 03:42:07 <newsham> too bad ubuntu didnt just roll up an updated driver pkg.. obviously they have a newer one shipping in 10.10...
325 2011-01-08 03:42:11 <kartofeln> without -v, -w 64 is a wee bit faster than -w 128. with -v, it's 10Mhash/s slower. not going to pretend I understand the why of it.
326 2011-01-08 03:42:28 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: fglrx already autovectorizes
327 2011-01-08 03:42:37 <newsham> looks like around 3500 khash/sec.
328 2011-01-08 03:42:52 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: 2 is the proper width for 4xxx and 5xxx hardware, and the driver chooses it
329 2011-01-08 03:42:54 <kartofeln> oh sorry, I'm on vista x64.
330 2011-01-08 03:43:01 <Diablo-D3> same thing
331 2011-01-08 03:43:22 <Diablo-D3> after mass testing, -w 64 -v 1 was the proper choice
332 2011-01-08 03:43:31 ekaj has joined
333 2011-01-08 03:43:38 eboyjr has joined
334 2011-01-08 03:43:39 systemfault has joined
335 2011-01-08 03:43:39 <Diablo-D3> -w 128 -v 1, -w 64 -v 2, and -w 128 -v 2 was always slower
336 2011-01-08 03:43:48 <Diablo-D3> so I removed vectors altogether
337 2011-01-08 03:44:11 <Diablo-D3> newsham: what chip?
338 2011-01-08 03:44:11 james__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
339 2011-01-08 03:44:21 <kartofeln> well okay.. it doesn't match what I'm seeing here though.
340 2011-01-08 03:44:28 <EvanR> systemfault: welcome ;)
341 2011-01-08 03:44:53 <systemfault> :)
342 2011-01-08 03:44:57 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: -w 64 should be faster than -w 128 -v 2.
343 2011-01-08 03:45:05 <newsham> diablo: whatever comes in the thinkpad t410s? :)
344 2011-01-08 03:45:08 <newsham> some nvidia thing
345 2011-01-08 03:45:12 <newsham> is there a cmd to show me?
346 2011-01-08 03:45:21 <newsham> "Added NVS 3100M" is that the chip?
347 2011-01-08 03:45:33 <kartofeln> I tried, -w 64 alone is still clocking at around 140MHash/s, vs -w 128 -v a 160
348 2011-01-08 03:45:36 <Diablo-D3> newsham: yes it is
349 2011-01-08 03:45:47 <Diablo-D3> kartofeln: weird, sounds like driver bug. which sdk?
350 2011-01-08 03:46:08 <kartofeln> ati stream.. lemme look up the version
351 2011-01-08 03:46:15 <newsham> does 3500 khash/sec sound about right? or should i be tuning this?
352 2011-01-08 03:46:20 <Diablo-D3> newsham: well
353 2011-01-08 03:46:39 <kartofeln> ati stream v2
354 2011-01-08 03:46:40 james_ has joined
355 2011-01-08 03:46:42 <newsham> i think i get about 3000khash/sec on the cpu on this box.
356 2011-01-08 03:47:02 <newsham> looks like running the gpu miner at the same time as the cpu miner doesnt affect eithers performance noticeably
357 2011-01-08 03:47:12 <Diablo-D3> newsham: 3100m == gt218m
358 2011-01-08 03:47:37 <Diablo-D3> newsham: == 600mhz 16 shader cores
359 2011-01-08 03:47:46 <Diablo-D3> == 70 gflops
360 2011-01-08 03:48:29 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
361 2011-01-08 03:48:31 <Diablo-D3> so thats around a geforce 310
362 2011-01-08 03:48:57 <Diablo-D3> 600mhz, 16 shaders, 70 gflops
363 2011-01-08 03:49:36 <Diablo-D3> newsham: turn off gpu mining
364 2011-01-08 03:49:39 <Diablo-D3> er
365 2011-01-08 03:49:41 <Diablo-D3> cpu mining
366 2011-01-08 03:49:51 <kartofeln> Diablo-D3: the ATI sdk comes with a "Stream KernelAnalyzer" tool that seems to fairly accurately predict the throughput of a chunk of CL code.
367 2011-01-08 03:49:53 <Diablo-D3> and you should get around 20 mhash/sec
368 2011-01-08 03:50:30 <Diablo-D3> whoop sorry
369 2011-01-08 03:50:42 <newsham> i get the same perf wether or not my cpu miner (cpuminer-0.5) is running
370 2011-01-08 03:50:46 <kartofeln> on m0mchil's BitCoinMiner.cl with VECTORS defined, it's predicting a throughput of 84 M Threads/Sec on a 5770. without VECTORS, it's predicting 144 M Threads/Sec
371 2011-01-08 03:50:48 <Diablo-D3> around 4.
372 2011-01-08 03:50:54 <Diablo-D3> actually, slightly more than 3.
373 2011-01-08 03:51:08 <Diablo-D3> newsham: so you're getting slightly more than 3?
374 2011-01-08 03:51:11 james_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
375 2011-01-08 03:51:16 <newsham> oh also I hvae X running.. would that affect it? :)
376 2011-01-08 03:51:37 <lfm> ya he said 3500
377 2011-01-08 03:52:01 <Diablo-D3> newsham: no, it wouldnt
378 2011-01-08 03:52:02 <Diablo-D3> so yeah
379 2011-01-08 03:52:06 <Diablo-D3> thats about all you're getting
380 2011-01-08 03:52:32 <lfm> newsham you need X I think. the driver is loaded by X
381 2011-01-08 03:52:55 james has joined
382 2011-01-08 03:53:00 <newsham> yah, i just found that out :)
383 2011-01-08 03:53:21 james is now known as Guest70261
384 2011-01-08 03:53:27 <newsham> so running gpuminer and cpuminer at the same time i think i'm getting around 7mh/s
385 2011-01-08 03:53:45 <EvanR> millihashes? </returntoSItrolling>
386 2011-01-08 03:53:49 <newsham> heh
387 2011-01-08 03:54:11 <lfm> for the pedantic its properly Mhash/sec
388 2011-01-08 03:54:29 <newsham> is that what the ISO board decided?
389 2011-01-08 03:54:41 Vaerros has left ()
390 2011-01-08 03:54:46 <kartofeln> "/s" is the proper SI "per second" format.
391 2011-01-08 03:55:06 <EvanR> yeah its kMGTPE??Y
392 2011-01-08 03:55:06 <lfm> ISO prefix standard, of course they dont have jurisdiction over bitcoin
393 2011-01-08 03:55:46 <lfm> yet
394 2011-01-08 03:55:57 Guest70261 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
395 2011-01-08 03:56:00 <EvanR> indeed, thats why nanocoins are 10^-8
396 2011-01-08 03:56:04 <EvanR> lol
397 2011-01-08 03:56:05 <kartofeln> only raw computing power has jurisdiction over bitcoin, for better or worse.
398 2011-01-08 03:56:28 <lfm> evenr I prefer microcents
399 2011-01-08 03:56:42 <newsham> and only the periodic table had power over egold?
400 2011-01-08 03:56:43 <newsham> heh.
401 2011-01-08 03:57:16 <kartofeln> it's not just a saying. if someone comes out with a massive quantity of computing power, then can de facto dictate all things bitcoin.
402 2011-01-08 03:57:36 ekaj has left ()
403 2011-01-08 03:57:41 <EvanR> they could probably also unlock world cryptographies
404 2011-01-08 03:58:00 <lfm> evanr well, not really
405 2011-01-08 03:58:13 <newsham> kart: right, but thats not to say a govt couldnt come in and use other means to control the situation.
406 2011-01-08 03:58:33 <newsham> they get awefully touchy when people challenge their monopoly on printing money
407 2011-01-08 03:58:35 <EvanR> if a government found a way to take over bitcoin, you can bet some other country has the technology too
408 2011-01-08 03:58:47 <EvanR> pit governments against each other, and the collective people
409 2011-01-08 03:58:53 <newsham> evanr: i'm not talking about technology.
410 2011-01-08 03:59:00 <EvanR> oh algorithms?
411 2011-01-08 03:59:03 <EvanR> yeah were screwed
412 2011-01-08 03:59:03 <newsham> i'm talking about money, lawyers, guns, etc.
413 2011-01-08 03:59:09 <kartofeln> well, the other attacks involve shutting down all the exchangers, shutting down the internet as we know it, and strongly splitting the internet.
414 2011-01-08 03:59:15 <lfm> and if 3 governments try at the same time (nearly equal ones) none win
415 2011-01-08 03:59:18 <EvanR> i dont recognize the legitimacy of those threats ;)
416 2011-01-08 03:59:21 james_ has joined
417 2011-01-08 03:59:32 <newsham> evanr: the great thing is they dont have to be legitimate to be effective
418 2011-01-08 03:59:46 <EvanR> you can conquer the body, but not the mind!
419 2011-01-08 04:00:15 <newsham> how many kh/s does your mind get?
420 2011-01-08 04:00:27 <newsham> anyway, i think we're drifting off topic
421 2011-01-08 04:00:31 <EvanR> lol
422 2011-01-08 04:00:38 <EvanR> the politics is the best part
423 2011-01-08 04:00:58 <lfm> itd be microhash/s
424 2011-01-08 04:01:08 <newsham> lfm: femto.
425 2011-01-08 04:01:22 <newsham> has anyone made a gamecoin to bitcoin market yet? :)
426 2011-01-08 04:01:29 <kartofeln> depends if I get a paper and a pen or not. :-/
427 2011-01-08 04:01:40 <newsham> seems like gamecoins have done pretty well at establishing themselves as something of a currency without trying
428 2011-01-08 04:01:59 <EvanR> is it centralized?
429 2011-01-08 04:02:02 <newsham> logical conclusion would be for bitcoin to try to get used as a game currency for a game people want to play
430 2011-01-08 04:02:13 <newsham> to promote bitcoin use
431 2011-01-08 04:02:22 <lfm> newsham someone was trying to trade secondlife money for bitcoin
432 2011-01-08 04:02:38 <lfm> linden$
433 2011-01-08 04:03:01 <newsham> would be nice having some large forex market with lots of diff ecurrencies and gamecoins
434 2011-01-08 04:03:18 <EvanR> and linden
435 2011-01-08 04:03:19 <EvanR> and wow gold
436 2011-01-08 04:03:21 <EvanR> and whatever
437 2011-01-08 04:03:35 <EvanR> sounds hard to have all that under one roof and not get arrested
438 2011-01-08 04:03:45 <newsham> btw, i read something about the difficulties in trusting paypal or credit cards for bitcoin transactions (ie. chargeback risk). what do sites that accept cc/pp do to handle that risk?
439 2011-01-08 04:04:04 <newsham> evanr: what would be the problem, legal wise?
440 2011-01-08 04:04:07 <EvanR> most sites eat the losses or go out of business
441 2011-01-08 04:04:14 <EvanR> in general
442 2011-01-08 04:04:32 <lfm> or som e combination of the two
443 2011-01-08 04:04:36 <EvanR> newsham: depending on the country, half of these are illegal tender
444 2011-01-08 04:05:46 james_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
445 2011-01-08 04:07:16 <EvanR> if i got the details straight, if the cc company informs you of a possible chargeback, and its a fraud situation, you have no way to 'settle' things with the card owner. so you auto loose money
446 2011-01-08 04:07:36 <EvanR> but you have a time period to settle things in case the user was just being stupid
447 2011-01-08 04:07:44 <EvanR> it takes time out of your day though
448 2011-01-08 04:09:37 <EvanR> they say make the customer experience as good as possible to avoid chargebacks, but because of fraud, and because the cc company is likely to side with the owner, thats BS
449 2011-01-08 04:10:06 <newsham> i think it would be fun to set up a market but i am not interested in dealing with cc/pp transactions and risk.
450 2011-01-08 04:10:20 <EvanR> i checked into google checkout
451 2011-01-08 04:10:20 <Diablo-D3> chargebacks ALWAYS happen
452 2011-01-08 04:10:23 <Diablo-D3> because people cannot be trusted
453 2011-01-08 04:10:41 <newsham> diablo: and btc is perfect for chargeback fraud
454 2011-01-08 04:10:51 <newsham> so prob much higher risk than avg
455 2011-01-08 04:11:16 <EvanR> google has fraud detection, according to their ad, but the 'charge back protection' in the fine print says doesnt cover digital merchandise
456 2011-01-08 04:11:21 <EvanR> only tangible goods
457 2011-01-08 04:11:54 <EvanR> you can also accept payments from paypal competitors, but most people wont have it or want to sign up
458 2011-01-08 04:12:02 <EvanR> google would have worked since its a big name
459 2011-01-08 04:12:25 <newsham> evanr: you're a haskell guy right?
460 2011-01-08 04:12:53 <EvanR> answer may serve to incriminate me
461 2011-01-08 04:12:55 <lfm> limit people to small txn so you can afford a few fraud and people wont be so tempted
462 2011-01-08 04:12:56 <EvanR> answering*
463 2011-01-08 04:12:58 <Diablo-D3> HAH
464 2011-01-08 04:13:01 <Diablo-D3> fucking haskell
465 2011-01-08 04:13:10 <EvanR> fucking haskell, how does THAT work
466 2011-01-08 04:13:13 <Diablo-D3> if I wanted to kick myself in the nuts, I'd use lisp instead
467 2011-01-08 04:13:38 <EvanR> systemfault: youre supposed to chime in here ;)
468 2011-01-08 04:13:51 <newsham> evanr: http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/snapgame/ small trading game in haskell.
469 2011-01-08 04:14:24 <EvanR> thats cool, does it use bitcoins?
470 2011-01-08 04:14:50 <newsham> nope.
471 2011-01-08 04:15:06 <EvanR> im glad theres people besides me working on web haskell ;)
472 2011-01-08 04:20:34 acous has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
473 2011-01-08 04:28:12 <newsham> i dont very often
474 2011-01-08 04:28:15 <newsham> was kinda for kicks
475 2011-01-08 04:40:49 <eboyjr> Who uses bitcoins now?
476 2011-01-08 04:41:12 <lfm> who doesnt
477 2011-01-08 04:42:28 <luke-jr> eboyjr: http://www.bitcoin.org/trade
478 2011-01-08 04:42:59 <eboyjr> Good answer
479 2011-01-08 04:43:02 <eboyjr> luke-jr: thanks
480 2011-01-08 04:43:38 <luke-jr> eboyjr: if you need a VPS, I run the Lightfoot Hosting one :P
481 2011-01-08 04:44:10 <luke-jr> but fwiw, it's fairly difficult to get bitcoins these days
482 2011-01-08 04:44:18 <luke-jr> short of postal mailing cash
483 2011-01-08 04:44:33 <alowm> i'm making a few BTC/day with a single gpu in a mining collective
484 2011-01-08 04:44:42 <luke-jr> alowm: that's cheating
485 2011-01-08 04:45:01 <alowm> luke-jr: where are the BTC prices on your site?
486 2011-01-08 04:45:06 <alowm> cheating?
487 2011-01-08 04:45:12 <luke-jr> alowm: select BitCoin from the currency dropdown :P
488 2011-01-08 04:45:21 <luke-jr> cheating because it uses proprietary drivers :P
489 2011-01-08 04:45:26 <alowm> ah ok cool
490 2011-01-08 04:45:40 <alowm> i'm not aware of non-proprietary drivers for mac systems
491 2011-01-08 04:45:48 <luke-jr> true enough
492 2011-01-08 04:46:03 <luke-jr> I guess if you're already compromised, it doesn't hurt to make use of it XD
493 2011-01-08 04:46:12 <alowm> haha
494 2011-01-08 04:47:15 <EvanR> eboyjr: its pretty easy to get bitcoins
495 2011-01-08 04:47:28 <luke-jr> EvanR: I don't mean generating them anyhow
496 2011-01-08 04:47:43 <EvanR> you can buy them with paypal
497 2011-01-08 04:47:49 <luke-jr> I had a customer email me, and I was going to suggest he pay in bitcoins, but I couldn't find any way for him to get them with $
498 2011-01-08 04:47:53 <luke-jr> EvanR: how?
499 2011-01-08 04:47:54 <eboyjr> Are they expensive?
500 2011-01-08 04:48:06 <luke-jr> eboyjr: about $0.31 USD each right now, if you can get them
501 2011-01-08 04:48:13 <EvanR> ...
502 2011-01-08 04:48:14 <luke-jr> eboyjr: the problem is fraud
503 2011-01-08 04:48:31 <luke-jr> EvanR: MtGox no longer accepts PayPal; Market is closed to new users
504 2011-01-08 04:48:59 <EvanR> you just ask in bitcoin-otc
505 2011-01-08 04:50:06 <EvanR> bitcoin central is new, and bcm is reopening at some point
506 2011-01-08 04:50:24 <EvanR> and several people always ready to do otc trades
507 2011-01-08 04:50:39 <EvanR> luke-jr: you know, it would be easier if you took their USD ;)
508 2011-01-08 04:50:48 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
509 2011-01-08 04:50:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 101567 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 1248 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17456.89231757
510 2011-01-08 04:51:04 <EvanR> or did you ask them to pay you in total dollars
511 2011-01-08 04:51:46 <EvanR> tonal*
512 2011-01-08 04:52:55 <luke-jr> EvanR: I won't trust USD without a postal address
513 2011-01-08 04:53:44 <EvanR> trust usd in what way, accept?
514 2011-01-08 04:54:14 <luke-jr> right
515 2011-01-08 04:54:22 <EvanR> how does an address work
516 2011-01-08 04:54:25 <EvanR> or help
517 2011-01-08 05:00:19 <luke-jr> I can look it up on Google Maps and make sure it's a real place
518 2011-01-08 05:00:20 <luke-jr> :P
519 2011-01-08 05:02:13 <EvanR> so can they lol
520 2011-01-08 05:03:53 <luke-jr> think they'd bother?
521 2011-01-08 05:08:53 <EvanR> if were gonna assume theyre idiots, why do *we* bother ;)
522 2011-01-08 05:09:25 <lfm> you only need to assume some of em are idiots
523 2011-01-08 05:11:42 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
524 2011-01-08 05:20:37 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
525 2011-01-08 05:20:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.322,"low":0.309,"vol":8216,"buy":0.309,"sell":0.31,"last":0.31}}
526 2011-01-08 05:20:56 <da2ce7> vol has returned to more sane levels...
527 2011-01-08 05:21:05 <da2ce7> prices should hold for at leat a day.
528 2011-01-08 05:21:27 <da2ce7> *least
529 2011-01-08 05:22:21 <da2ce7> (hmm I'm always uneasy makeing such predictions, as the pridiction itself can get people to buy n' sell)
530 2011-01-08 05:22:45 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
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532 2011-01-08 05:25:06 <kartofeln> low liquidity isn't a good indicator of price stability..
533 2011-01-08 05:28:00 <eboyjr> is there a bitcoin stock market
534 2011-01-08 05:29:03 <kartofeln> I don't know how any stock traded in BTCs, no.. but there's #bitcoin-otc and #bitcoin-market
535 2011-01-08 05:31:57 <luke-jr> hmm
536 2011-01-08 05:32:07 <luke-jr> 0.31 USD per BTC seems low
537 2011-01-08 05:32:37 <luke-jr> but is it possible that people with BTC in fact /consider the USD worth less/? rather than undervalue BTC?
538 2011-01-08 05:34:38 Sapians has joined
539 2011-01-08 05:46:12 <xelister> luke-jr: cost of production can be as low as 0.05 USD/BTC or less
540 2011-01-08 05:47:06 <eboyjr> It costs to produce btcs?
541 2011-01-08 05:47:38 Ljrn900 has joined
542 2011-01-08 05:49:35 <xelister> eboyjr: hardware, electrical power. Also, well, time and skill
543 2011-01-08 05:49:48 <Ljrn900> ?
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559 2011-01-08 07:07:52 * da2ce7 is still trying to work out the balance between being too easy with bounties and too harsh.
560 2011-01-08 07:11:32 Maze_ has joined
561 2011-01-08 07:14:40 RazielZ has joined
562 2011-01-08 07:16:19 Ljrn900 is now known as LJrN900
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569 2011-01-08 09:14:30 <Diablo-D3> hmm
570 2011-01-08 09:14:33 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if 10.12 is buggy
571 2011-01-08 09:24:41 davout has joined
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604 2011-01-08 12:19:47 <lucky> Approx. cluster performance: 14359.292864 Mhash/s
605 2011-01-08 12:19:49 <lucky> yeowza :)
606 2011-01-08 12:20:11 <Diablo-D3> lol I just said that a minute ago in -mining
607 2011-01-08 12:22:07 <slush> heh, how can I get list of all #bitcoin- channels here? I didn't listen about -mining before...
608 2011-01-08 12:22:43 <slush> (I'm irc newbie)
609 2011-01-08 12:22:57 <Diablo-D3> slush: ask your client to do it
610 2011-01-08 12:23:45 <slush> I'm using jabber/irc transport or so, I think I have no gui for this here
611 2011-01-08 12:24:00 <Diablo-D3> then you're doomed.
612 2011-01-08 12:24:05 <Diablo-D3> get a real irc client
613 2011-01-08 12:24:07 <Diablo-D3> slush: also
614 2011-01-08 12:24:09 <Diablo-D3> update the site
615 2011-01-08 12:24:10 <Diablo-D3> we're at 14.
616 2011-01-08 12:24:36 <slush> who cares? :-)
617 2011-01-08 12:24:41 <slush> about 'news'
618 2011-01-08 12:25:07 <Diablo-D3> do it.
619 2011-01-08 12:25:27 <slush> yes, sir!
620 2011-01-08 12:36:22 <Diablo-D3> slush: I must be moving faster than most of the pool
621 2011-01-08 12:36:32 <Diablo-D3> Ive now gotten 2 blocks
622 2011-01-08 12:36:46 <Diablo-D3> but I havent gotten 100 coins back yet
623 2011-01-08 12:37:04 <slush> yeah, it is how pool works
624 2011-01-08 12:37:17 <Diablo-D3> Im just saying
625 2011-01-08 12:37:24 <Diablo-D3> I must be REALLY ahead of the pool
626 2011-01-08 12:37:34 <Diablo-D3> pool hasnt even given me 50 coins yet
627 2011-01-08 12:37:48 <slush> You cannot do stats with 2 blocks :)
628 2011-01-08 12:37:55 <Diablo-D3> yes I can =P
629 2011-01-08 12:37:59 <slush> I'm with ~17 blocks on expected average
630 2011-01-08 12:39:21 Bth8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
631 2011-01-08 12:40:33 <slush> If I remember, m0mchil mined 4 blocks and his reward was around 70 bitcoins. Now I think he has much better average.
632 2011-01-08 12:40:57 <Diablo-D3> heh
633 2011-01-08 12:41:06 johnyh has quit (K-Lined)
634 2011-01-08 12:41:14 <slush> Unfortunately I cannot do pool where everybody is above his average ;)
635 2011-01-08 12:41:43 <Diablo-D3> no, but it really should be nearer =P
636 2011-01-08 12:42:32 <slush> Pool is place where your miner's luck is luck for everybody else, not for you :-)
637 2011-01-08 12:42:43 <Diablo-D3> heh
638 2011-01-08 12:49:56 altamic_ has quit (Quit: altamic_)
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644 2011-01-08 13:50:18 <slush> sir, news updated!
645 2011-01-08 13:50:25 <slush> Diablo-D3: ---^
646 2011-01-08 13:50:34 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
647 2011-01-08 14:03:42 <Diablo-D3> took you long enough
648 2011-01-08 14:12:04 <Diablo-D3> okay damnit
649 2011-01-08 14:12:20 <Diablo-D3> whos PunkRockLawyer on fark
650 2011-01-08 14:13:19 <Diablo-D3> http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5872712&hl=Virginia-may-print-its-own-currency-This-is-a-repeat-from-1861-1865&startid=66054350
651 2011-01-08 14:13:28 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
652 2011-01-08 14:13:33 <Diablo-D3> see the third comment
653 2011-01-08 14:29:31 ThomasV has joined
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655 2011-01-08 14:33:36 lucky has joined
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659 2011-01-08 14:39:01 omglolbbq has joined
660 2011-01-08 14:39:30 <omglolbbq> are there any active poker sites or programs for bitcoin?
661 2011-01-08 14:40:17 xelister has joined
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663 2011-01-08 14:40:18 xelister has joined
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670 2011-01-08 15:06:39 <devon_hillard> How fast is ArtForzZz's cluster?
671 2011-01-08 15:06:46 <devon_hillard> 2-3 GH/s?
672 2011-01-08 15:07:32 <slush> 16?
673 2011-01-08 15:10:07 <omglolbbq> i tought he'd own 90% of the network by now xd
674 2011-01-08 15:10:33 endian7000 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
675 2011-01-08 15:11:01 TD has joined
676 2011-01-08 15:11:30 <ArtForzZz> 16.5
677 2011-01-08 15:11:47 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
678 2011-01-08 15:18:15 lucky has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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680 2011-01-08 15:24:14 <omglolbbq> i think this might happen in the future, mining becomes too hard for home users, companies or people owning server racks will take over the mining, increasing difficulty even more, it becomes harder for them, then it ends up in the hands of superior government computing power
681 2011-01-08 15:28:49 <ArtForz> I somewhat doubt that
682 2011-01-08 15:30:02 osmosis has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
683 2011-01-08 15:30:42 <omglolbbq> why?>
684 2011-01-08 15:34:57 <ArtForz> several reasons
685 2011-01-08 15:42:40 <Diablo-D3> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Chav_car.jpeg
686 2011-01-08 15:46:12 <arcatan> i dunno if governments' computing power is superior to companies' computing power
687 2011-01-08 15:52:50 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
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691 2011-01-08 16:02:08 <TD> Diablo-D3: awesome
692 2011-01-08 16:02:57 <TD> omglolbbq: just replace "mining" in your statement with "running a website" and it still makes sense but obviously didn't come true
693 2011-01-08 16:03:57 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
694 2011-01-08 16:04:17 Cusipzzz has joined
695 2011-01-08 16:04:44 <omglolbbq> TD, you know there are plans that work like a whitelist, block everything, onlly allow government certified websites to be accessed
696 2011-01-08 16:10:26 AAA_awright has joined
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699 2011-01-08 16:13:30 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
700 2011-01-08 16:13:30 altamic_ is now known as altamic
701 2011-01-08 16:19:13 <TD> omglolbbq: wake me up when such plans become reality outside of small and unusual regimes
702 2011-01-08 16:19:40 <omglolbbq> time to wake up then...
703 2011-01-08 16:20:01 <TD> really? i can only access "government certified websites"? in china, sure
704 2011-01-08 16:20:08 <TD> even then though their control is flaky and unreliable
705 2011-01-08 16:24:08 <omglolbbq> there are plenty of sites getting bblocked
706 2011-01-08 16:24:26 <omglolbbq> currently it works with blacklists, thats not so far from whitelisting
707 2011-01-08 16:24:47 <omglolbbq> they will, at some point, realize they can't blacklist everything, the alternative that will come up is whitelisting
708 2011-01-08 16:26:05 <mizerydearia> It would be interesting if there were a patch for bitcoin designed which allowed multiple wallet files to be handled by Bitcoin client and there were a kind of switch or method call to alter which wallet file to make use of.
709 2011-01-08 16:26:42 <mizerydearia> Or perhaps add another argument to related methods to specify which wallet (account) to use for executing the method.
710 2011-01-08 16:27:28 noagendamarket has joined
711 2011-01-08 16:28:18 <mizerydearia> e.g. I could establish one client for my family and each user could have their own password protected wallet file, in which they can log in to make it active in a currently running bitcoin process
712 2011-01-08 16:29:07 <noagendamarket> you could have 100 wallets each with 1 btc in it
713 2011-01-08 16:29:21 <noagendamarket> distributed wallet goodness lol
714 2011-01-08 16:29:51 <noagendamarket> or in artforz'a case 250 000 wallets
715 2011-01-08 16:30:00 <noagendamarket> lol
716 2011-01-08 16:30:07 <Diablo-D3> lol
717 2011-01-08 16:30:19 <Diablo-D3> and thats like, per day
718 2011-01-08 16:30:24 <noagendamarket> haha
719 2011-01-08 16:30:36 <TD> omglolbbq: which country are you in?
720 2011-01-08 16:30:39 <lfm> i think you could do that with shell scripts with the current bitcoin client
721 2011-01-08 16:30:47 <noagendamarket> you could have over 9000
722 2011-01-08 16:30:56 <omglolbbq> netherlands
723 2011-01-08 16:31:01 <TD> omglolbbq: AFAIK there are no blacklists in the USA. In places like the UK there are small blacklists, but nobody has seen them being used for political ends (yet)
724 2011-01-08 16:31:06 <TD> so pretty far away from what you described
725 2011-01-08 16:31:18 <noagendamarket> ifm this wopuld be a gui
726 2011-01-08 16:31:29 <omglolbbq> the lists are secret... nobody knows whats being blocked or not
727 2011-01-08 16:31:44 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
728 2011-01-08 16:31:49 <lfm> ya, the gui client, use shell scripts to select the wallet at login time
729 2011-01-08 16:32:07 <lfm> this is linux?
730 2011-01-08 16:32:31 <TD> omglolbbq: so how do you know anything is being blocked at all ?
731 2011-01-08 16:32:55 <omglolbbq> because they admitted they were censoring
732 2011-01-08 16:33:01 <omglolbbq> just not giving out the list
733 2011-01-08 16:33:02 <TD> censoring what, exactly?
734 2011-01-08 16:33:16 <TD> yes, the uk does that. but people would find out very quickly if such a list was being used for political ends.
735 2011-01-08 16:33:26 <omglolbbq> netherlands too apparently
736 2011-01-08 16:33:39 altamic has joined
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738 2011-01-08 16:34:01 <noagendamarket> the government is racist becauise it uses blacklists
739 2011-01-08 16:34:09 <TD> haha
740 2011-01-08 16:34:16 <noagendamarket> I think we should propagate it
741 2011-01-08 16:34:16 <TD> all black lists look the same to me ;)
742 2011-01-08 16:34:29 redMBA has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
743 2011-01-08 16:34:56 <noagendamarket> maybe its not if obama comes out with a black list
744 2011-01-08 16:35:19 <noagendamarket> hmmm
745 2011-01-08 16:35:37 <noagendamarket> its a civil rights issue
746 2011-01-08 16:35:39 <noagendamarket> lol
747 2011-01-08 16:37:43 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
748 2011-01-08 16:39:23 altamic has joined
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750 2011-01-08 16:51:08 FreeMoney has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
751 2011-01-08 16:52:04 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
752 2011-01-08 16:55:18 <kiba> why blacklist child p0rn site when you can try to find out who the heck is producing it?
753 2011-01-08 16:56:05 <lfm> kiba the cops are exept from the blacklists
754 2011-01-08 16:56:13 <lfm> exempt
755 2011-01-08 16:57:04 <TD> why blacklist it at all. trying to avoid determined people from accessing particular types of images is a losing battle and a slippery slope
756 2011-01-08 16:57:46 <mizerydearia> Is anyone available and interested in assisting me with or reviewing my implementation of OpenId for a website?
757 2011-01-08 16:57:50 <kiba> just because someone is interested in child porn doesn't mean he's an evil molester
758 2011-01-08 16:58:26 <kiba> just mean that he have very creepy taste
759 2011-01-08 16:59:26 <omglolbbq> you must be a terrorist kiba xD or worse
760 2011-01-08 16:59:27 <omglolbbq> xD
761 2011-01-08 17:00:32 <kiba> ya know
762 2011-01-08 17:00:44 <kiba> there are ton of people who think I am condemned to hell
763 2011-01-08 17:00:50 <kiba> in the league of the devil
764 2011-01-08 17:01:08 <omglolbbq> xD
765 2011-01-08 17:01:27 altamic has joined
766 2011-01-08 17:02:00 <kiba> I rather pray to Buddha, rather than ask God for help. ;)
767 2011-01-08 17:03:29 <omglolbbq> maybe you can pay off your sins with BTC
768 2011-01-08 17:03:38 <omglolbbq> don't know how modern the dude is...
769 2011-01-08 17:03:52 <kiba> I don't think Buddha care about your sin
770 2011-01-08 17:04:15 <lfm> kiba and you arnt?
771 2011-01-08 17:04:16 <omglolbbq> no but the all loving, all caring God does... xD
772 2011-01-08 17:04:28 <noagendamarket> the flying spaghetti monster doesnt care
773 2011-01-08 17:04:41 <omglolbbq> for you have sinned, you must feel the love of God by punishment in hell
774 2011-01-08 17:04:47 <kiba> Buddha isn't a god
775 2011-01-08 17:04:52 <kiba> he's just an mortal
776 2011-01-08 17:05:06 <kiba> but his followers deify him
777 2011-01-08 17:05:18 <kiba> so Buddhism isn't supposed to have God
778 2011-01-08 17:06:22 <omglolbbq> most buddhists have gods
779 2011-01-08 17:06:40 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
780 2011-01-08 17:06:42 <kiba> MOST
781 2011-01-08 17:07:01 <omglolbbq> just watch The Monkey King
782 2011-01-08 17:09:46 <kiba> time to make me bitcoin money
783 2011-01-08 17:09:50 <r3dMBA> deities != god a creator
784 2011-01-08 17:10:15 <omglolbbq> ok have fun kiba, don't get sore
785 2011-01-08 17:10:18 <kiba> I found the Christian God to be a very abstract entity
786 2011-01-08 17:10:46 <kiba> except maybe Jesus
787 2011-01-08 17:11:09 <kiba> however
788 2011-01-08 17:11:22 <kiba> I am inclined to believe that Jesus is just a very crazed Jew
789 2011-01-08 17:12:17 <newsham> is it really crazy to want to bring down the roman empire?
790 2011-01-08 17:12:41 <newsham> or to be disatisfied with the religeous leaders?
791 2011-01-08 17:13:53 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
792 2011-01-08 17:15:55 <noagendamarket> statism and religion are the same
793 2011-01-08 17:16:04 <noagendamarket> the government is god
794 2011-01-08 17:16:19 <noagendamarket> its all the same shit different shovel
795 2011-01-08 17:17:20 <newsham> true or not, jesus still railed separately against rome and the jewish priests.
796 2011-01-08 17:17:30 <EvanR> lol
797 2011-01-08 17:18:06 <EvanR> jesus in contemporary political context
798 2011-01-08 17:18:21 <EvanR> never been done before
799 2011-01-08 17:18:52 <EvanR> noagendamarket: so we have a dual government in america?
800 2011-01-08 17:18:58 <newsham> i'm just responding to "[07:00] < kiba> I am inclined to believe that Jesus is just a very crazed Jew
801 2011-01-08 17:19:10 <newsham> who said anything about cotnemporary political context?
802 2011-01-08 17:19:23 <EvanR> newsham
803 2011-01-08 17:19:25 <noagendamarket> EvanR you have anarchy in America lol
804 2011-01-08 17:20:43 <newsham> speaking of jesus, why are you twisting my words? ;-)
805 2011-01-08 17:20:56 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: I wish
806 2011-01-08 17:20:56 <EvanR> get serious
807 2011-01-08 17:21:04 <EvanR> newsham: im not twisting anything
808 2011-01-08 17:21:25 <luke-jr> newsham: Jesus endorsed the rule of Rome, actually
809 2011-01-08 17:21:46 <noagendamarket> no he didnt
810 2011-01-08 17:22:04 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
811 2011-01-08 17:22:12 TD has joined
812 2011-01-08 17:23:31 <noagendamarket> You realise most of the ruling class are pedophiles
813 2011-01-08 17:23:46 <luke-jr> and while He was the victim of the corrupt high priest, He established a new Church to take authority in religious matters
814 2011-01-08 17:24:17 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: that speaks more of the rulers personally, than the priciple of authority
815 2011-01-08 17:24:37 <noagendamarket> well power corrupts
816 2011-01-08 17:24:41 <newsham> luke: afaik jesus didnt establish any church
817 2011-01-08 17:24:46 <luke-jr> newsham: He did.
818 2011-01-08 17:25:00 altamic has joined
819 2011-01-08 17:25:03 <noagendamarket> mary established the church
820 2011-01-08 17:25:10 <noagendamarket> :)-
821 2011-01-08 17:25:10 <luke-jr> it is historically undeniable that Jesus established the Catholic Church
822 2011-01-08 17:25:29 <EvanR> no he didnt
823 2011-01-08 17:25:31 <lfm> and peter?
824 2011-01-08 17:25:40 <luke-jr> lfm: He made St. Peter the first pope
825 2011-01-08 17:25:41 <EvanR> peter and friends
826 2011-01-08 17:25:44 <newsham> no conversation on irc goes unpunished...
827 2011-01-08 17:27:23 <noagendamarket> god is the original ceiling cat
828 2011-01-08 17:27:30 <noagendamarket> watching you masturbate
829 2011-01-08 17:27:35 <noagendamarket> :)
830 2011-01-08 17:28:26 <newsham> we prefer "mining"
831 2011-01-08 17:28:39 <noagendamarket> lol same diff
832 2011-01-08 17:29:00 <noagendamarket> its the size of the gpu that matters
833 2011-01-08 17:29:21 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
834 2011-01-08 17:30:54 <kiba> noagendamarket: you mean, those Catholic preists?
835 2011-01-08 17:31:06 <noagendamarket> the peter files
836 2011-01-08 17:31:13 <kiba> those molesting Catholic preists
837 2011-01-08 17:31:25 <kiba> ya know, if you say to your children, "APOLOGIZE!"
838 2011-01-08 17:31:37 <kiba> all you're doing is teaching them how to look....sorry
839 2011-01-08 17:31:44 <kiba> but not actually...SORRY
840 2011-01-08 17:32:05 <kiba> I imagine all these Catholic priests do everything to look sorry
841 2011-01-08 17:32:17 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
842 2011-01-08 17:32:27 darrob has joined
843 2011-01-08 17:33:04 <noagendamarket> well they arent allowed to be human
844 2011-01-08 17:33:09 <noagendamarket> thats what results
845 2011-01-08 17:33:20 <newsham> [07:14] < luke-jr> lfm: He made St. Peter the first pope
846 2011-01-08 17:33:22 <newsham> wrong
847 2011-01-08 17:33:29 * kiba is often disciplined as a kid with some "light beating", which may qualify as child abuse these days
848 2011-01-08 17:33:36 <newsham> thats what you get for learning history from a sunday school teacher
849 2011-01-08 17:33:56 <kiba> but anyway
850 2011-01-08 17:34:05 <kiba> it made me grew up to be an anti-authoritian
851 2011-01-08 17:34:13 <kiba> and to be rather unapolgetic in some of my actions
852 2011-01-08 17:34:21 <luke-jr> newsham: nope, that's what happened
853 2011-01-08 17:34:40 <kiba> But I do have my own moral compass
854 2011-01-08 17:34:49 <kiba> for when things actually matter
855 2011-01-08 17:34:52 <lfm> newsham you misquote me
856 2011-01-08 17:35:04 <kiba> otherwise, I am just a greedy jackass
857 2011-01-08 17:36:08 altamic has joined
858 2011-01-08 17:36:15 ThomasV has joined
859 2011-01-08 17:36:18 <kiba> I also hate sharing
860 2011-01-08 17:36:23 <kiba> it diminish my material wealth
861 2011-01-08 17:36:34 <kiba> usually
862 2011-01-08 17:36:58 <lfm> kiba so you're against open source
863 2011-01-08 17:37:02 <kiba> no
864 2011-01-08 17:37:10 <kiba> sharing open source software make me wealthier
865 2011-01-08 17:37:15 <kiba> it doesn't diminish my material wealth
866 2011-01-08 17:37:20 <kiba> and increase my reputation
867 2011-01-08 17:37:26 <kiba> which increase my material wealth
868 2011-01-08 17:37:31 <kiba> otherwise, I am not sharing things like food
869 2011-01-08 17:37:38 <newsham> plus 8 greed and a plus 5 reputation
870 2011-01-08 17:37:39 <kiba> toys or lego
871 2011-01-08 17:37:45 <lfm> but you hate sharing
872 2011-01-08 17:38:20 <EvanR> kiba is the next saddam hussein
873 2011-01-08 17:38:38 TD_ has joined
874 2011-01-08 17:38:57 <kiba> lfm: I guess it make me an enemy of communism
875 2011-01-08 17:38:58 <noagendamarket> lol
876 2011-01-08 17:39:02 <kiba> communism is about SHARING, right?
877 2011-01-08 17:39:06 <kiba> and I don't like SHARING
878 2011-01-08 17:39:12 <ThomasV> kiba: sharing your wife/GF will not decrease your material wealth
879 2011-01-08 17:39:17 <kiba> I am enraged when I have to share
880 2011-01-08 17:39:27 <noagendamarket> ThomasV it can
881 2011-01-08 17:39:31 <noagendamarket> :)
882 2011-01-08 17:39:32 <EvanR> yes
883 2011-01-08 17:39:37 <EvanR> i can attest to that
884 2011-01-08 17:39:42 <kiba> I want exclusive access to pussies
885 2011-01-08 17:39:42 <noagendamarket> if your wife is a prostitute
886 2011-01-08 17:39:45 <hacim> interesting development discussion :)
887 2011-01-08 17:39:47 <kiba> err
888 2011-01-08 17:39:57 <kiba> 100% exclusive eassy to a pussy
889 2011-01-08 17:40:02 <kiba> access*
890 2011-01-08 17:40:02 <EvanR> ThomasV: when she finally leaves you and takes most of your shit with her, and all your friends
891 2011-01-08 17:40:14 <kiba> EvanR: don't worry, I don't have many friends
892 2011-01-08 17:40:24 <noagendamarket> just find a woman you hate and give her a house
893 2011-01-08 17:40:33 <noagendamarket> lol
894 2011-01-08 17:40:36 <ThomasV> EvanR: is that a consequence of sharing her ?
895 2011-01-08 17:40:44 <EvanR> maybe
896 2011-01-08 17:40:51 <kiba> human beings have jealousy issue
897 2011-01-08 17:41:00 <kiba> so sharing sex partner is likely to lead to conflict
898 2011-01-08 17:41:12 <EvanR> unless youre the king of egypt
899 2011-01-08 17:41:19 <EvanR> or wherever
900 2011-01-08 17:41:26 <kiba> you have incestious relations with your own sis, then
901 2011-01-08 17:41:33 <EvanR> and whoever else you want
902 2011-01-08 17:41:33 <lfm> but open source is about sharing
903 2011-01-08 17:41:33 <lfm> and you hate sharing
904 2011-01-08 17:41:37 <EvanR> no conflict at all
905 2011-01-08 17:42:15 <kiba> I am not a very sharing person I guess
906 2011-01-08 17:42:31 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
907 2011-01-08 17:42:31 TD_ is now known as TD
908 2011-01-08 17:42:34 <kiba> not into this self-destruction thing
909 2011-01-08 17:42:35 * ThomasV realizes he's been slightly offtopic wrt this channel
910 2011-01-08 17:42:43 <noagendamarket> depends if its gpl or not
911 2011-01-08 17:42:50 <kiba> I hate the GPL
912 2011-01-08 17:42:51 <EvanR> since theres no bitcoin-offtopic, seems appropriate
913 2011-01-08 17:42:55 <kiba> GPL IS EVIL!
914 2011-01-08 17:43:20 <luke-jr> so again, is there *any* sane way I can accept BitCoin payments from someone who only has a Visa prepaid card? XD
915 2011-01-08 17:43:41 <EvanR> visa cards have for example USD on them, not bitcoins
916 2011-01-08 17:44:10 <ThomasV> luke-jr: on a website ?
917 2011-01-08 17:44:21 <luke-jr> ThomasV: as opposed to?
918 2011-01-08 17:44:38 <ThomasV> .. to IRL
919 2011-01-08 17:44:48 <luke-jr> he's in Indiana
920 2011-01-08 17:44:51 <luke-jr> I'm in Florida
921 2011-01-08 17:45:05 <ThomasV> oh, that's IRL I guess
922 2011-01-08 17:45:22 <noagendamarket> If you could send bitcoins and it filled a debit card would you do it?
923 2011-01-08 17:45:39 <luke-jr> O.o
924 2011-01-08 17:45:59 <ThomasV> noagendamarket: that would be nice indeed
925 2011-01-08 17:46:02 <luke-jr> so I'm trying to avoid setting up my merchant-side Google Checkout account :p
926 2011-01-08 17:46:25 <noagendamarket> ;)
927 2011-01-08 17:46:27 * luke-jr notes debit cards don't have balances, but are merely gateways to an ordinary bank account
928 2011-01-08 17:46:49 <luke-jr> but if there's no way for this guy to pay me with BitCoin, I need to accept the USD :p
929 2011-01-08 17:47:09 <noagendamarket> visa debit card
930 2011-01-08 17:48:56 <noagendamarket> you can fill debit cards with liberty reserve at some sites
931 2011-01-08 17:50:20 <EvanR> youre trying to go from USD -> BTC -> USD ?
932 2011-01-08 17:51:45 endian7000 has joined
933 2011-01-08 17:51:51 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
934 2011-01-08 17:51:51 <lfm> luke-jr sure before you send the btc get the cc number and spend it on something online... then if that works out, send the btc
935 2011-01-08 17:51:51 <lfm> luke-jr so this has nothing to do with bitcoin actually
936 2011-01-08 17:52:12 endian7000 has left ()
937 2011-01-08 17:52:39 <luke-jr> lfm: â¦
938 2011-01-08 17:52:59 <luke-jr> EvanR: I'm trying to get him to go USD->BTC so I can get paid in BTC
939 2011-01-08 17:53:22 <EvanR> bitcoingateway may be accepting cc now
940 2011-01-08 17:53:31 <luke-jr> bitcoingateway is down
941 2011-01-08 17:53:42 <EvanR> dwolla?
942 2011-01-08 17:53:45 <luke-jr> has been for the week since i learned about btc
943 2011-01-08 17:53:47 <luke-jr> dwolla?
944 2011-01-08 17:54:19 <EvanR> he can send you the usd with dwolla, and you can buy the btc on otc with it
945 2011-01-08 17:54:52 <EvanR> theres also moneypak
946 2011-01-08 17:55:24 <EvanR> he buys the money pak with his card, and sends you the usd 'securely'
947 2011-01-08 17:56:34 <luke-jr> so in other words, just give up on accepting BTC? :P
948 2011-01-08 17:56:52 <EvanR> im worried about the customer experience here
949 2011-01-08 17:57:09 <EvanR> if he doesnt have btc, he cant rightly pay you with it
950 2011-01-08 17:57:21 <Cusipzzz> EvanR: wise
951 2011-01-08 17:57:56 <Cusipzzz> tell him to start mining imo =)
952 2011-01-08 17:58:14 <EvanR> "come back in 1.7 years on average plz"
953 2011-01-08 17:58:24 <lfm> luke-jr I understand. You want btc cuz you dont want to deal with the riscs of credit cards and crap
954 2011-01-08 17:58:40 <Cusipzzz> tell him to buy a couple 5970s, he'll be able to pay in no time
955 2011-01-08 17:59:10 <luke-jr> lfm: really just want BTC to get some BTC XD
956 2011-01-08 17:59:33 <EvanR> youre in a better position to get btc with usd than a random customer i think
957 2011-01-08 17:59:55 <Cusipzzz> what are you selling? offer it to the btc community instead of this USD guy
958 2011-01-08 18:01:04 <kiba> Madhatter?
959 2011-01-08 18:01:28 <noagendamarket> luke jr I can get you some btc from mt gox if you have paypal
960 2011-01-08 18:01:40 <noagendamarket> not much though....
961 2011-01-08 18:01:59 <ThomasV> yes ! BUY !! BUY !!
962 2011-01-08 18:02:10 <AAA_awright> "Moneypak" (what a stupid name) costs quite a bit to even use though
963 2011-01-08 18:02:12 <Cusipzzz> lol
964 2011-01-08 18:02:37 <EvanR> AAA_awright: yeah well were talking about easy and safe, not cheap necessarily
965 2011-01-08 18:02:43 <EvanR> dwolla also might work
966 2011-01-08 18:03:03 <noagendamarket> when is dwolla going international?
967 2011-01-08 18:03:08 <EvanR> moneypak is cheaper than western union ;)
968 2011-01-08 18:03:14 <AAA_awright> I mean, if that's the cost of doing it easily, by all means, but pfft really? Is PayPal going to go under sometime soon?
969 2011-01-08 18:03:19 <Cusipzzz> i like the idea of seeding a bunch of mybitcoin accounts with different amounts of coins and selling the credentials like BTC debit cards
970 2011-01-08 18:03:25 <EvanR> paypal isnt 'safe'
971 2011-01-08 18:03:27 <AAA_awright> Oh wait that's what BitCoin is for
972 2011-01-08 18:03:28 <Cusipzzz> noagendamarket: dwolla is never going international
973 2011-01-08 18:04:05 <ThomasV> luke-jr: I am not sure if you can request that your client pays with bitcoins , because usd have legal tender
974 2011-01-08 18:04:11 <Cusipzzz> once you go intl, have to comply with all sorts of sanctions, aml, patriot act rules. way too much overhead for small co
975 2011-01-08 18:04:22 <noagendamarket> ya unfortunately
976 2011-01-08 18:04:26 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: hosting
977 2011-01-08 18:04:31 <Cusipzzz> plus diff banking rules for each juridiction
978 2011-01-08 18:04:40 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: vps?
979 2011-01-08 18:04:43 <noagendamarket> nothing saying they cant set up an offshore company
980 2011-01-08 18:04:52 <noagendamarket> thats not connected
981 2011-01-08 18:04:55 <noagendamarket> lol
982 2011-01-08 18:05:04 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: yeah
983 2011-01-08 18:05:32 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
984 2011-01-08 18:07:46 <luke-jr> ThomasV: only hard cash is legal tender, not CCs ;)
985 2011-01-08 18:08:00 <EvanR> slick
986 2011-01-08 18:08:24 * EvanR holds the haunting issue of customer experience over luke-jr's head
987 2011-01-08 18:08:48 dduane has joined
988 2011-01-08 18:08:49 <luke-jr> well, it looks liek I can't use GCheckout anyway
989 2011-01-08 18:09:03 <newsham> why is it so hard to get dollars into bitcoin?
990 2011-01-08 18:09:04 <kiba> luke-jr trying to buy bitcoin?
991 2011-01-08 18:09:04 <luke-jr> since they require 3 days to verify checking account to deposit to
992 2011-01-08 18:09:08 <kiba> he's in Sweden right?
993 2011-01-08 18:09:12 <luke-jr> kiba: trying to earn bitcoin
994 2011-01-08 18:09:16 <luke-jr> no, Indiana
995 2011-01-08 18:09:23 <luke-jr> newsham: because USD isn't real :p
996 2011-01-08 18:09:30 <TD> why can't you use checkout?
997 2011-01-08 18:09:36 <EvanR> ah *adds fast to the list of requirements*
998 2011-01-08 18:09:39 <newsham> lukejr: right, and jesus started the church.
999 2011-01-08 18:09:39 <kiba> paypal.
1000 2011-01-08 18:09:46 <noagendamarket> because google shot everyone down
1001 2011-01-08 18:09:58 <kiba> noagendamarket: no surprise
1002 2011-01-08 18:10:00 <luke-jr> TD: customer wants to get service today :p
1003 2011-01-08 18:10:03 <kiba> Google is an AI company
1004 2011-01-08 18:10:13 <TD> oh, you mean there's a setup time you don't want to wait for
1005 2011-01-08 18:10:17 <kiba> with an overzealous air defense shield
1006 2011-01-08 18:10:18 <luke-jr> kiba: he said PayPal put a limit on him or smth
1007 2011-01-08 18:10:21 <TD> i thought you meant you'd been turned down or something
1008 2011-01-08 18:10:23 <noagendamarket> besides google is coming out with their own micropayments model
1009 2011-01-08 18:10:29 <luke-jr> TD: right
1010 2011-01-08 18:10:33 <noagendamarket> why would they accept bitcoin?
1011 2011-01-08 18:10:37 <kiba> noagendamarket: we're d00med?
1012 2011-01-08 18:10:42 <TD> noagendamarket: google is?
1013 2011-01-08 18:10:43 <EvanR> payment method must be easy, safe, and executable right now with no prior preparation
1014 2011-01-08 18:10:47 <noagendamarket> no fuck google lol
1015 2011-01-08 18:10:47 <TD> noagendamarket: where did you read that?
1016 2011-01-08 18:11:02 <noagendamarket> isnt it obvious?
1017 2011-01-08 18:11:14 <kiba> obvious what?
1018 2011-01-08 18:11:44 <TD> noagendamarket: obvious that google is developing a micropayments system?
1019 2011-01-08 18:11:49 <TD> no ..... not really obvious to me
1020 2011-01-08 18:13:04 <noagendamarket> http://www.niemanlab.org/pdfs/Google.pdf
1021 2011-01-08 18:14:12 <TD> interesting
1022 2011-01-08 18:14:36 <noagendamarket> no its not because its centralised
1023 2011-01-08 18:14:39 <noagendamarket> pffft
1024 2011-01-08 18:14:43 <TD> would be cool to have
1025 2011-01-08 18:14:45 <TD> well, yeah
1026 2011-01-08 18:14:49 <TD> the entire financial system is centralized today
1027 2011-01-08 18:15:00 <TD> how else would you suggest launching an actual micropayments system?
1028 2011-01-08 18:15:04 <TD> bitcoin is great but hardly big enough for that yet
1029 2011-01-08 18:16:48 * TD waits for another block on the testnet
1030 2011-01-08 18:17:09 <noagendamarket> basically you extend credit based on risk
1031 2011-01-08 18:17:31 <noagendamarket> so you might let someone have 5btc in good faith
1032 2011-01-08 18:18:20 <noagendamarket> then they send the large amount while the microtransactions are recorded
1033 2011-01-08 18:18:55 <noagendamarket> basically a clearance house could settle between merchants/btc banks
1034 2011-01-08 18:19:11 <TD> that sounds the same as what the pdf describes, basically, except for bitcoin i think you'd just do the micropayments directly
1035 2011-01-08 18:19:34 <noagendamarket> that might not scale though for bitcoin
1036 2011-01-08 18:19:41 <TD> for the existing infrastructure you need big players like google. bitcoin wouldn't, i think.
1037 2011-01-08 18:19:47 <TD> bitcoin can scale pretty well i think
1038 2011-01-08 18:20:06 <TD> not if we assume all nodes run on random peoples desktops
1039 2011-01-08 18:20:23 <TD> but if we assume a p2p network that looks more like kazaa, with thin clients and supernodes, it could scale up pretty nicely
1040 2011-01-08 18:20:43 <noagendamarket> I assume people would have onsite wallets
1041 2011-01-08 18:21:23 <TD> yes, local wallets.
1042 2011-01-08 18:21:30 <TD> you don't need to run a full node to keep the wallet to yourself
1043 2011-01-08 18:22:46 <TD> oh, and by the way. i work for google, so you can consider us as having our fingers in every pie ;)
1044 2011-01-08 18:22:58 <noagendamarket> what if you didnt send a bitcoin but instead sent a username and password which opens a wallet?
1045 2011-01-08 18:23:00 <noagendamarket> lol
1046 2011-01-08 18:23:14 <noagendamarket> then you dont need to send a bitcoin at all
1047 2011-01-08 18:24:07 <noagendamarket> If you work for google prove it lol
1048 2011-01-08 18:24:19 <luke-jr> TD: Google is tempting, but they won't buy me! :P
1049 2011-01-08 18:24:25 <noagendamarket> change the google logo to a btc one lol
1050 2011-01-08 18:24:40 <TD> noagendamarket: haha, good suggestion :-) maybe on its third birthday or something
1051 2011-01-08 18:24:50 <luke-jr> â¦
1052 2011-01-08 18:25:01 <noagendamarket> :)
1053 2011-01-08 18:25:07 <luke-jr> TD: now I don't believe you
1054 2011-01-08 18:25:10 <TD> bitcoin has to get a lot bigger first
1055 2011-01-08 18:25:14 <TD> luke-jr: i'm kidding :)
1056 2011-01-08 18:25:18 <TD> luke-jr: we can all make suggestions for the logo
1057 2011-01-08 18:25:19 <luke-jr> most people who work for Google don't have that kind of power :P
1058 2011-01-08 18:25:25 <TD> obviously we can't just randomly change it by ourself
1059 2011-01-08 18:25:29 <EvanR> google checkout may not provide any protection at all for selling bitcoins
1060 2011-01-08 18:25:47 <luke-jr> EvanR: if I get it as USD, it's staying USD
1061 2011-01-08 18:25:54 <noagendamarket> wouldnt it be similar tyo paypal?
1062 2011-01-08 18:26:15 <noagendamarket> its up to visa if they do chargebacks
1063 2011-01-08 18:26:24 <EvanR> noagendamarket: for tangible goods they have chargeback protection and fraud detection
1064 2011-01-08 18:26:40 <luke-jr> do they recognize BTC as tangible goods?
1065 2011-01-08 18:26:40 <noagendamarket> well there you go....
1066 2011-01-08 18:26:43 <EvanR> visa chargebacks google, and google doesnt chargeback you
1067 2011-01-08 18:26:52 <luke-jr> EvanR: Google can.
1068 2011-01-08 18:27:13 <EvanR> if they end up charging you, you also pay 10 bucks, but the ad says in 99% of cases its the buyers fault
1069 2011-01-08 18:27:15 <TD> i think the ToS says no currency transactions
1070 2011-01-08 18:27:16 <TD> not sure why
1071 2011-01-08 18:27:16 <noagendamarket> in communist russia chargebacks google you
1072 2011-01-08 18:27:16 <luke-jr> they look at it and make a decision whether to chargeback you PLUS A FEE, or drop it
1073 2011-01-08 18:27:34 <EvanR> luke-jr: no, btc is not a tangible good
1074 2011-01-08 18:27:34 <luke-jr> I had 2 chargebacks cuz someone paid me with stolen CC once
1075 2011-01-08 18:27:46 <luke-jr> Google basically told me I'd be best off just refunding it all
1076 2011-01-08 18:27:47 <EvanR> chargeback protection is not offered for digital content
1077 2011-01-08 18:27:55 <luke-jr> I didn't; eventually they resolved it in my faovur
1078 2011-01-08 18:28:06 <noagendamarket> Can you get a chargeback if you get paid from a bank accouint?
1079 2011-01-08 18:28:07 <EvanR> thats pretty cool
1080 2011-01-08 18:28:11 <luke-jr> EvanR: but BTC isn't merely content
1081 2011-01-08 18:28:25 <luke-jr> you can verify BTC was transferred
1082 2011-01-08 18:28:26 <EvanR> luke-jr: i would be interested to see what google actually says about it
1083 2011-01-08 18:28:41 <luke-jr> although I suppose not to whom
1084 2011-01-08 18:28:53 <luke-jr> but if the customer signs a paper with the destination bitcoin addressâ¦
1085 2011-01-08 18:28:55 <EvanR> you records can say that you sent it to wherever they asked
1086 2011-01-08 18:29:31 <EvanR> what they typed in is on your records, where you sent it is in the blockchain
1087 2011-01-08 18:29:51 <EvanR> but i have a feeling google would give a flying ...
1088 2011-01-08 18:29:55 <EvanR> wouldnt
1089 2011-01-08 18:30:00 <noagendamarket> now we need third party record keeping
1090 2011-01-08 18:30:02 <luke-jr> anyhow, I'm not in the business of selling BTC
1091 2011-01-08 18:30:05 <luke-jr> I don't have any BTC to sell
1092 2011-01-08 18:30:06 <luke-jr> :P
1093 2011-01-08 18:30:31 hpj has joined
1094 2011-01-08 18:30:35 <luke-jr> but IMO, getting a signed slip with destination address, credit card info + CVV2
1095 2011-01-08 18:30:37 <luke-jr> should be good
1096 2011-01-08 18:30:45 <EvanR> signing stuff over the internet?
1097 2011-01-08 18:30:51 <EvanR> for regular people at least?
1098 2011-01-08 18:30:55 <luke-jr> maybe a statement to the effect that the BitCoin algorithms are trusted
1099 2011-01-08 18:31:05 <luke-jr> and a number of verifications considered to be "approval"
1100 2011-01-08 18:31:10 <luke-jr> EvanR: no scanner?
1101 2011-01-08 18:31:10 <EvanR> you arent allowed to save the CVV
1102 2011-01-08 18:31:15 <noagendamarket> get them to upload 100 points of id
1103 2011-01-08 18:31:16 <EvanR> scanner???
1104 2011-01-08 18:31:29 <noagendamarket> and a utility bill
1105 2011-01-08 18:31:39 <noagendamarket> that matches the id
1106 2011-01-08 18:31:56 <luke-jr> â¦
1107 2011-01-08 18:31:57 <EvanR> customers with gpg can sign something, just websites are equipped with that, and people dont have that
1108 2011-01-08 18:32:06 <lfm> and get their grandmother to swear they are a good boy
1109 2011-01-08 18:32:07 <EvanR> are not equipped, god dammit
1110 2011-01-08 18:32:19 <luke-jr> EvanR: PGP won't work
1111 2011-01-08 18:32:22 <Cusipzzz> provide blood type, dna sample, etc
1112 2011-01-08 18:32:25 <luke-jr> well, maybe
1113 2011-01-08 18:32:33 <noagendamarket> when I got a currency fair account i had to send them a scan of my id and proof of address
1114 2011-01-08 18:32:49 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: complain
1115 2011-01-08 18:32:55 <noagendamarket> its good enough to open a bank account
1116 2011-01-08 18:33:02 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: it's a violation of Visa and MasterCard merchant contract for them to ask you for ID
1117 2011-01-08 18:33:05 <luke-jr> even in person
1118 2011-01-08 18:33:17 <noagendamarket> well thats retarded
1119 2011-01-08 18:33:29 <noagendamarket> no wonder they get fraud
1120 2011-01-08 18:33:59 <luke-jr> not everyone has ID, and it's a selling point for Visa/MC
1121 2011-01-08 18:34:15 <luke-jr> they ARE required to compare the signature on the back of the card, with the one on the receipt
1122 2011-01-08 18:34:21 <noagendamarket> well...you dont need id for bitcoin
1123 2011-01-08 18:34:27 <EvanR> no one checks signatures in practice
1124 2011-01-08 18:35:22 <luke-jr> EvanR: I've seen people.
1125 2011-01-08 18:35:34 <luke-jr> I also refuse to show ID.
1126 2011-01-08 18:35:51 <luke-jr> I'll call 1-800-VISA-911 if I have to
1127 2011-01-08 18:35:53 <EvanR> really
1128 2011-01-08 18:36:00 <EvanR> youre one of those customers ;)
1129 2011-01-08 18:36:06 <Cusipzzz> lol
1130 2011-01-08 18:36:32 <EvanR> when i worked at walmart, i would make fun of you with the next customer after you left
1131 2011-01-08 18:36:40 <luke-jr> make fun all you want.
1132 2011-01-08 18:36:52 <luke-jr> I respect contracts, and expect you to also
1133 2011-01-08 18:36:53 <EvanR> not that i ever asked for ID
1134 2011-01-08 18:37:04 <luke-jr> if the contract says you can't ask for ID, you won't see mine
1135 2011-01-08 18:37:21 <newsham> hmm.. so do people normally do something crazy like paypal -> some exchanger -> liberty reserve -> mtgox -> bitcoin to get dollars into bitcoin?
1136 2011-01-08 18:37:33 <EvanR> maybe if its a lot of money
1137 2011-01-08 18:37:33 <TD> i just bought some in #bitcoin-otc
1138 2011-01-08 18:37:38 <EvanR> no, theyd wire it
1139 2011-01-08 18:37:40 <luke-jr> newsham: tbh, I'd sooner mail cash/check
1140 2011-01-08 18:37:55 <luke-jr> EvanR: wiring is expensive
1141 2011-01-08 18:38:05 <EvanR> for a lot of money its more efficient
1142 2011-01-08 18:38:13 <luke-jr> true
1143 2011-01-08 18:38:25 <luke-jr> I was surprised to see that there are over 1 mil USD in BTC already
1144 2011-01-08 18:38:37 <Cusipzzz> 1.6 and counting
1145 2011-01-08 18:38:47 <luke-jr> it's really much further along than I expected
1146 2011-01-08 18:38:59 <TD> it's doing very well, but what really matters is the GDP
1147 2011-01-08 18:39:05 <TD> not the total amount of currency in existence
1148 2011-01-08 18:39:21 <TD> if there's $1M in coins but those coins don't circulate fast enough, it's still not progress
1149 2011-01-08 18:39:21 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: 1.6 mil in USD?
1150 2011-01-08 18:39:32 <EvanR> mercantilism!
1151 2011-01-08 18:39:38 <EvanR> more money == more wealth
1152 2011-01-08 18:39:39 <Cusipzzz> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
1153 2011-01-08 18:39:49 <luke-jr> TD: well, it's hard to circulate when my customers don't have any way to get BTC to spend
1154 2011-01-08 18:40:04 <TD> yeah. it's tough to build an economy from scratch :)
1155 2011-01-08 18:40:16 <afed> they can mine on their gpus!
1156 2011-01-08 18:40:18 <EvanR> luke-jr: if theres something difficult, make money by making it easy for people
1157 2011-01-08 18:40:19 <TD> especially when many of the actors have established business in the "real" economy
1158 2011-01-08 18:40:28 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: mail cash, wire to mtgox, trade -otc for paypal, poker money, amazon.com credit, prepaid cards, almost anything
1159 2011-01-08 18:40:33 <luke-jr> EvanR: How?
1160 2011-01-08 18:40:38 <EvanR> good question
1161 2011-01-08 18:40:46 <newsham> you cant simply multiply the current outstanding number of bitcoins by the current market price of a bitcoin
1162 2011-01-08 18:41:04 <newsham> i mean, you can, but you shouldnt trust the number you get out of it :)
1163 2011-01-08 18:41:04 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: prepaid cards how?
1164 2011-01-08 18:41:09 <EvanR> luke-jr: easy, fast, safe for both parties and USD may not be compatible
1165 2011-01-08 18:41:31 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: go to a gas station, by greendot card. someone in -otc will buy it for BTCs
1166 2011-01-08 18:41:44 <Cusipzzz> buy*
1167 2011-01-08 18:41:48 <EvanR> thats the moneypak i was talking about
1168 2011-01-08 18:42:04 <EvanR> it does require the user to know how to operate IRC and trust it
1169 2011-01-08 18:42:07 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: like who?
1170 2011-01-08 18:42:17 <luke-jr> the channel is silent :P
1171 2011-01-08 18:42:28 <Cusipzzz> peopleare lurking =)
1172 2011-01-08 18:42:32 <Cusipzzz> people*
1173 2011-01-08 18:42:39 <hacim> who what?
1174 2011-01-08 18:43:33 <luke-jr> how long would it take someone with a decent GPU miner to generate 25 BTC?
1175 2011-01-08 18:44:03 <newsham> 25 days or less?
1176 2011-01-08 18:44:13 <luke-jr> lol way too long >_<
1177 2011-01-08 18:45:51 <lucky> with pooled mining, probably about 1 - 3 BTC a day
1178 2011-01-08 18:46:47 <kiba> somebody needs to sell GPU cards for bitcoin!
1179 2011-01-08 18:46:59 <ArtForz> define decent
1180 2011-01-08 18:47:13 <lfm> luke-jr with a ati 5770 you can generate 50 btc in about 5 days
1181 2011-01-08 18:47:15 <kiba> using bitcoin to buy bitcoin money tree aka GPUs
1182 2011-01-08 18:47:18 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 310000
1183 2011-01-08 18:47:25 <lfm> on average
1184 2011-01-08 18:47:30 <Cusipzzz> bot is dead :/
1185 2011-01-08 18:47:54 <luke-jr> lfm: that's with or without a pool?
1186 2011-01-08 18:47:59 <noagendamarket> If anyone wants me to buy them a gpu you can send me the btc
1187 2011-01-08 18:48:05 <kiba> bitcoin reporting staffed by bots apperantly have a high turnover rate
1188 2011-01-08 18:48:05 <noagendamarket> :)
1189 2011-01-08 18:48:08 <ArtForz> 2d14h for a 5870 or 6970
1190 2011-01-08 18:48:10 <lfm> at current difficulty
1191 2011-01-08 18:48:22 <lfm> luke-jr either way, a pool is a tiny bit of overhead so a bit less
1192 2011-01-08 18:48:43 <lfm> more time, less btc
1193 2011-01-08 18:49:24 <kiba> better to have 1 BTC now and later
1194 2011-01-08 18:49:35 <kiba> money in the future should be discounted compared to money now
1195 2011-01-08 18:49:49 <lfm> if you cant wait 5 days for your full share then ya, go pool
1196 2011-01-08 18:49:52 <kiba> because of time preference theory dictating that human being prefer a things now rather than later
1197 2011-01-08 18:50:05 <kiba> than later*
1198 2011-01-08 18:50:29 <kiba> for luke-jr, it might be a cashflow issue
1199 2011-01-08 18:51:16 <rlifchitz> any working opensource linux/nvidia miner?
1200 2011-01-08 18:51:17 <lfm> yup for a more regular cash flow with less dependance on randomness then ya, go pool
1201 2011-01-08 18:51:43 <luke-jr> rlifchitz: no
1202 2011-01-08 18:51:54 <ArtForz> yes
1203 2011-01-08 18:52:22 <noagendamarket> where does everyone buy their gpu's from?
1204 2011-01-08 18:52:24 <luke-jr> ArtForz: he said open source
1205 2011-01-08 18:52:27 <ArtForz> so?
1206 2011-01-08 18:52:43 <luke-jr> ArtForz: there's no open source OpenCL yet is there?
1207 2011-01-08 18:52:49 <ArtForz> just because the driver is a binary blob doesn't magically make the miner less open source
1208 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <lfm> rlifchitz yes several. look in the forums
1209 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <rlifchitz> any link?
1210 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <lfm> rlifchitz but no open source drivers, just miners
1211 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <rlifchitz> two many threads with bogus info
1212 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <rlifchitz> too*
1213 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <rlifchitz> just looking for an opensource miner
1214 2011-01-08 18:53:01 <rlifchitz> driver is not necessary ;)
1215 2011-01-08 18:53:03 <luke-jr> the whole miner isn'
1216 2011-01-08 18:53:05 <lfm> rlifchitz you still need the proprietary video drivers to use the open source miners
1217 2011-01-08 18:53:10 <rlifchitz> lfm: of course
1218 2011-01-08 18:53:19 <luke-jr> rlifchitz: lame
1219 2011-01-08 18:53:26 <ArtForz> luke-jr: are you seriously arguing that a graphics driver is part of a userland program?
1220 2011-01-08 18:53:30 * luke-jr sticks to his good old open source ATi driver
1221 2011-01-08 18:53:44 <ArtForz> and btw, gallium3d has experimental OpenCL support
1222 2011-01-08 18:53:47 <luke-jr> ArtForz: no, I'm arguing that the "miner" is the complete hardware+kernel+program
1223 2011-01-08 18:53:56 <luke-jr> ArtForz: which cards does it support?
1224 2011-01-08 18:54:08 <luke-jr> and/or how do I try it?
1225 2011-01-08 18:54:10 <ArtForz> HD4xxx iirc
1226 2011-01-08 18:54:19 <luke-jr> meh, I don't have a HD card yet
1227 2011-01-08 18:54:40 <rlifchitz> lfm: any cuda miner?
1228 2011-01-08 18:55:04 <ArtForz> there's puddinpops I think
1229 2011-01-08 18:55:19 <kiba> we're creeping closer to .33 cents on mtgox!
1230 2011-01-08 18:55:20 <ArtForz> mining on nvidia isn't very efficient though
1231 2011-01-08 18:55:42 <kiba> that mean, my saving is almost worth 80 bucks :D
1232 2011-01-08 18:56:41 <ArtForz> = a GTX580 is about as fast as a HD5750
1233 2011-01-08 18:57:44 <ArtForz> yeah... a $499 250W GPU about as fast as a pervious gen $100 85W GPU
1234 2011-01-08 18:59:14 <kiba> that mean it sucks?
1235 2011-01-08 18:59:18 <ArtForz> nvidia looks a bit better if you have diverging branching, but for pure data-parallel stuff ATIs SIMD-of-VLIWs approach completely outclasses em
1236 2011-01-08 19:01:28 <luke-jr> http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21055
1237 2011-01-08 19:01:32 <luke-jr> let's see how well this works outâ¦
1238 2011-01-08 19:01:54 <newsham> how to get #python to offer btc micropayment for good answers?
1239 2011-01-08 19:02:20 <luke-jr> newsham: get good questions and make offers
1240 2011-01-08 19:02:45 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: i would like what you are smoking =)
1241 2011-01-08 19:02:56 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: something wrong with it? XDF
1242 2011-01-08 19:02:58 <luke-jr> XD*
1243 2011-01-08 19:03:07 <Cusipzzz> no, just jealous :)
1244 2011-01-08 19:04:09 <lfm> rlifchitz ya, there are 1 or 2 cuda miners too but I havnt tried em
1245 2011-01-08 19:04:09 <rlifchitz> i have a gtx570
1246 2011-01-08 19:04:09 <rlifchitz> and didn't find any working miner for now...
1247 2011-01-08 19:05:33 <ArtForz> 570 should get about 100Mh/s
1248 2011-01-08 19:06:24 <newsham> i dont have good questions
1249 2011-01-08 19:07:08 <rlifchitz> thx ArtForz
1250 2011-01-08 19:08:55 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1251 2011-01-08 19:09:19 <lfm> evil questions?
1252 2011-01-08 19:17:05 hpj has quit (Changing host)
1253 2011-01-08 19:17:05 hpj has joined
1254 2011-01-08 19:18:00 acous has joined
1255 2011-01-08 19:20:37 <newsham> whats the effective compute power of all the miners right now?
1256 2011-01-08 19:21:47 <tcatm> ~126Ghash/s
1257 2011-01-08 19:22:30 <Cusipzzz> enough electricity to run a small city :)
1258 2011-01-08 19:22:36 <noagendamarket> lol
1259 2011-01-08 19:22:42 <ArtForz> thats gotta be a very small city
1260 2011-01-08 19:22:47 <Cusipzzz> town, maybe
1261 2011-01-08 19:23:14 <ArtForz> on ~70kW ?
1262 2011-01-08 19:23:28 <noagendamarket> how does that compare to an average botnet?
1263 2011-01-08 19:23:31 <noagendamarket> lol
1264 2011-01-08 19:23:38 <newsham> got a rough translation into mips or flops?
1265 2011-01-08 19:24:12 <ArtForz> 1 Ghash = about 4 Tips
1266 2011-01-08 19:24:12 <Cusipzzz> top 50 supercomputer list, but i dont theink GPU translates well
1267 2011-01-08 19:24:17 <newsham> botnets arent often running at full cpu power.. so do you mean how much they are capable of or how much they typically use?
1268 2011-01-08 19:25:02 <ArtForz> so ~500 Tips total
1269 2011-01-08 19:25:32 <ArtForz> converting that to floating point is kinda tricky
1270 2011-01-08 19:25:49 <newsham> no need flops.
1271 2011-01-08 19:25:50 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1272 2011-01-08 19:25:53 <newsham> danke
1273 2011-01-08 19:25:58 <newsham> bbl
1274 2011-01-08 19:25:58 <ArtForz> I'd say about the same in SP FLOPs, maybe 1/6 that in DP
1275 2011-01-08 19:27:03 <ArtForz> so yeah, for pure Rpeak we'd end up in top30
1276 2011-01-08 19:27:41 <noagendamarket> wonder how long till it beats everything else
1277 2011-01-08 19:27:44 <noagendamarket> lol
1278 2011-01-08 19:27:56 <ArtForz> iirc F@H is about 10x that
1279 2011-01-08 19:28:30 <noagendamarket> bitcoin@home :)
1280 2011-01-08 19:28:55 <hpj> too bad bitcoins aren't based on something useful like protein folding solutions, eh
1281 2011-01-08 19:29:06 <Cusipzzz> when we get a PS3 miner, it'll be closer
1282 2011-01-08 19:29:07 <ArtForz> yeah
1283 2011-01-08 19:29:13 <ArtForz> closer to what?
1284 2011-01-08 19:29:16 <noagendamarket> oooh
1285 2011-01-08 19:29:19 <ArtForz> PS3 sucks for efficiency
1286 2011-01-08 19:29:26 <noagendamarket> is someone working on that?
1287 2011-01-08 19:29:29 <ArtForz> even a Phenom II gets better hash/W
1288 2011-01-08 19:29:34 <Cusipzzz> ya, but think of how many are out there, compared to super ATI cards
1289 2011-01-08 19:29:48 <ArtForz> not that many really
1290 2011-01-08 19:29:48 <noagendamarket> the fan nosie would suck
1291 2011-01-08 19:30:01 <noagendamarket> what about an xbox?
1292 2011-01-08 19:30:09 <ArtForz> even worse
1293 2011-01-08 19:30:16 <noagendamarket> lol
1294 2011-01-08 19:30:26 <Cusipzzz> lol
1295 2011-01-08 19:30:40 <Cusipzzz> atari 2600 ?
1296 2011-01-08 19:30:44 <luke-jr> XBox is a Pentium 3 @ 800 MHz
1297 2011-01-08 19:30:46 <noagendamarket> can you just get a gpu and plug it into a wall socket?
1298 2011-01-08 19:30:47 <ArtForz> VIC20 ?
1299 2011-01-08 19:30:53 <luke-jr> that was my /last/ desktop box
1300 2011-01-08 19:31:07 <ArtForz> 4004 ?
1301 2011-01-08 19:31:11 <donpdonp> is it possible to estimate the gigahash rate of the entire network? if so, whats the current estimate?
1302 2011-01-08 19:31:16 <ArtForz> yes
1303 2011-01-08 19:31:43 <ArtForz> estnextdiff 17571.2
1304 2011-01-08 19:31:49 <Cusipzzz> ~125 ghash
1305 2011-01-08 19:32:05 <ArtForz> so thats 17571.2 * 2**32 / 600 hps or... 125.78
1306 2011-01-08 19:32:10 <ArtForz> ghash
1307 2011-01-08 19:33:09 <noagendamarket> I wonder how much heat that would be if it was combined
1308 2011-01-08 19:33:22 <ArtForz> not that much with ATI GPUs
1309 2011-01-08 19:33:38 <donpdonp> whats the / 600 hps for?
1310 2011-01-08 19:33:46 <ArtForz> 600 seconds nominal per block
1311 2011-01-08 19:33:52 <donpdonp> ah! thx
1312 2011-01-08 19:34:38 <noagendamarket> artforz could earn btc for doing peoples maths homework
1313 2011-01-08 19:34:46 <ArtForz> rooted PS3 should have peak ~24.5Mhps
1314 2011-01-08 19:35:20 <noagendamarket> *has a nintendo wii
1315 2011-01-08 19:35:31 <ArtForz> = all 7 SPEs + PPE
1316 2011-01-08 19:35:33 <noagendamarket> :s
1317 2011-01-08 19:36:15 <noagendamarket> Has anyone tried to create a zombie botnet that mines?
1318 2011-01-08 19:36:17 <noagendamarket> :)
1319 2011-01-08 19:36:24 <ArtForz> thats asssuming we have a native 1-cycle rotate()
1320 2011-01-08 19:36:48 * luke-jr smacks noagendamarket for suggestign it -.-
1321 2011-01-08 19:36:53 <noagendamarket> hehe
1322 2011-01-08 19:36:59 <ArtForz> if not, ~ 16Mhps
1323 2011-01-08 19:37:00 <noagendamarket> *evil grin
1324 2011-01-08 19:37:15 <noagendamarket> I bet the chinese would be up for it
1325 2011-01-08 19:38:21 <ArtForz> so even a lower mid-range GPU is 4-6x as fast as a PS3 ...
1326 2011-01-08 19:38:44 <luke-jr> ArtForz: are you considering the PS3's GPU?
1327 2011-01-08 19:38:53 <ArtForz> no, do you have a driver for it?
1328 2011-01-08 19:38:57 <luke-jr> nope
1329 2011-01-08 19:39:01 <ArtForz> ... exactly :/
1330 2011-01-08 19:39:04 <luke-jr> :p
1331 2011-01-08 19:39:06 <noagendamarket> someone should hack it
1332 2011-01-08 19:39:23 <ArtForz> high end GPU somewhere from 22x to 35x as fast as a cell
1333 2011-01-08 19:39:43 james has joined
1334 2011-01-08 19:39:54 <noagendamarket> can you stuff a gpu into a ps3?lol
1335 2011-01-08 19:40:10 james is now known as Guest19303
1336 2011-01-08 19:40:17 <ArtForz> nope, but there's plenty of PCs with 5750/5770/...
1337 2011-01-08 19:40:33 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1338 2011-01-08 19:40:38 <noagendamarket> yea but thats boring :)-
1339 2011-01-08 19:41:10 * luke-jr ponders a headless box with 8 PCIe video cards all mining 24/7
1340 2011-01-08 19:41:16 <ArtForz> get a bitcoin miner on steam :P
1341 2011-01-08 19:41:33 <ArtForz> I thought about that, imo not worth it
1342 2011-01-08 19:42:01 <noagendamarket> hey i just looked up steam generators on google
1343 2011-01-08 19:42:03 <noagendamarket> lol
1344 2011-01-08 19:42:07 <noagendamarket> hivemind
1345 2011-01-08 19:42:20 <ArtForz> iirc standard flexible risers aren't long enough to reach 8 2-slot cards with 1 slot space in between
1346 2011-01-08 19:43:00 <noagendamarket> if you lived in an area with lots of trees or coal
1347 2011-01-08 19:43:06 <noagendamarket> like I do...
1348 2011-01-08 19:43:06 <ArtForz> so you'd have to order custom length risers
1349 2011-01-08 19:44:33 <ArtForz> iirc the cheapest option is hacking $50 mainboards to accept 3 GPUs
1350 2011-01-08 19:45:05 <noagendamarket> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77WDe71v1E
1351 2011-01-08 19:45:45 <ArtForz> lol
1352 2011-01-08 19:46:08 Bth8 has joined
1353 2011-01-08 19:57:07 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1354 2011-01-08 20:01:17 EvanR has joined
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1356 2011-01-08 20:01:17 EvanR has joined
1357 2011-01-08 20:02:51 <noagendamarket> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AMD-ATHLON-II-X4-640-4GB-500GB-HD5770-GAMING-DESKTOP-PC-/180562707176?pt=AU_comp_dekstop&hash=item2a0a6042e8
1358 2011-01-08 20:03:05 <noagendamarket> I need to upgrade my old winxp box
1359 2011-01-08 20:04:10 <noagendamarket> it bit the dust lol
1360 2011-01-08 20:04:33 int0x27h has quit (Changing host)
1361 2011-01-08 20:04:33 int0x27h has joined
1362 2011-01-08 20:13:14 <sipa> ;;bc,mtgox
1363 2011-01-08 20:14:21 <brocktice> tcatm: I'm a little confused about your js-remote
1364 2011-01-08 20:14:36 * brocktice got his third 5970 fired up
1365 2011-01-08 20:14:43 <brocktice> It's in my workstation now
1366 2011-01-08 20:14:52 <brocktice> Next week when the water block goes on it goes into the miner
1367 2011-01-08 20:15:50 <Cusipzzz> sipa: bot is broken
1368 2011-01-08 20:15:59 <brocktice> tcatm: If I can figure it out I might pay some or all of my bounty for it
1369 2011-01-08 20:21:47 <tcatm> brocktice: what confuses you?
1370 2011-01-08 20:22:33 <brocktice> tcatm: Somewhere it's said I can run bitcoind on my Android phone?
1371 2011-01-08 20:22:39 <brocktice> Has someone ported it?
1372 2011-01-08 20:22:41 * luke-jr builds a bitcoind allowing tiny transactions
1373 2011-01-08 20:22:56 <brocktice> Otherwise am I just supposed to connect it to bitcoind on my own server?
1374 2011-01-08 20:23:54 <luke-jr> what is the return code from 'sendfrom'?
1375 2011-01-08 20:24:14 <tcatm> brocktice: for bitcoind it's best to wait for lightweigth client feature first so for now it's easier to connect to your own bitcoind
1376 2011-01-08 20:25:13 <brocktice> tcatm: and there isn't yet a way to make the connection between the js client and my own bitcoind SSL encrypted, right?
1377 2011-01-08 20:25:27 <tcatm> brocktice: I'm currently working on a small SSL wrapper for RPC + js-remote (will proxy RPC and serve js-remote)
1378 2011-01-08 20:26:14 Ljrn900 has joined
1379 2011-01-08 20:26:22 <tcatm> SSL must be served from one origin (host:port) so it doesn't work with SSL in bitcoind
1380 2011-01-08 20:27:23 <brocktice> ah
1381 2011-01-08 20:27:25 <brocktice> cool
1382 2011-01-08 20:32:18 sgornick has joined
1383 2011-01-08 20:32:23 <noagendamarket> I feel we are on the verge of an awesome android app
1384 2011-01-08 20:32:49 <noagendamarket> its too bad i have an iphone lol
1385 2011-01-08 20:33:12 <noagendamarket> I think someon hacked an iphone so it runs android....
1386 2011-01-08 20:33:13 sgornick has quit (Client Quit)
1387 2011-01-08 20:33:34 sgornick has joined
1388 2011-01-08 20:33:37 <tcatm> noagendamarket: js-remote runs on iPhone too (if not, send me bug reports)
1389 2011-01-08 20:34:10 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1390 2011-01-08 20:34:29 mahadri has quit (Quit: leaving)
1391 2011-01-08 20:36:49 <noagendamarket> tcatm I dont want to type that enormous url into my safari lol
1392 2011-01-08 20:37:19 <tcatm> noagendamarket: there's a QR code for that on http://tcatm.github.com/bitcoin-js-remote/
1393 2011-01-08 20:38:34 <noagendamarket> ah yea had to fire up inigma
1394 2011-01-08 20:40:48 <noagendamarket> hmm i get not connected
1395 2011-01-08 20:40:58 <noagendamarket> can i just use the default settings?
1396 2011-01-08 20:41:36 <tcatm> yep they should work but maybe my bitcoind is overloaded
1397 2011-01-08 20:41:40 <noagendamarket> srry Ive been up all night :)-
1398 2011-01-08 20:41:56 <noagendamarket> so my brain is overloaded
1399 2011-01-08 20:45:04 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1400 2011-01-08 20:45:29 tg has joined
1401 2011-01-08 20:46:12 <noagendamarket> yea think we ddos ed you tcatm lol
1402 2011-01-08 20:47:13 larsivi has joined
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1404 2011-01-08 20:54:32 RazielZ has quit ()
1405 2011-01-08 20:54:38 <tcatm> Yay. SSL on Android is working :)
1406 2011-01-08 20:55:54 Guest19303 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1413 2011-01-08 21:19:29 Quinlan has joined
1414 2011-01-08 21:20:16 <Quinlan> Hello.
1415 2011-01-08 21:22:10 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1417 2011-01-08 21:23:57 <Cusipzzz> Hola
1418 2011-01-08 21:26:11 <Quinlan> So you earn about 1 BitCoin every couple days?
1419 2011-01-08 21:26:54 <newsham> hmm.. diablo miner craps out if jsonrpc fails. though not entirely.. seems each thread falis separately, so it hobbles a long a while, and if all the workers fail, you get 0khps.
1420 2011-01-08 21:26:58 <newsham> without it exiting
1421 2011-01-08 21:27:03 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 7000
1422 2011-01-08 21:27:07 <newsham> would prefer a hard fail or a recovery
1423 2011-01-08 21:29:08 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1424 2011-01-08 21:29:17 Quinlan has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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1426 2011-01-08 22:20:33 <tcatm> brocktice: got SSL working :)
1427 2011-01-08 22:23:47 <mizerydearia> tcatm: nice!
1428 2011-01-08 22:26:44 <dduane> me too
1429 2011-01-08 22:26:52 <dduane> https://bitcoinbonus.com
1430 2011-01-08 22:28:00 <dduane> noagendamarket I want to play wiht the android app!
1431 2011-01-08 22:30:34 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: This a triumph,I'm making a note here HUGE SUCCESS!)
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1434 2011-01-08 22:50:14 Xunie has quit (Quit: "You did become a terrorist when they sent her to your town." said Ange. "So I did," I said)
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1438 2011-01-08 22:52:38 dwdollar1 is now known as dwollar
1439 2011-01-08 23:04:24 <da2ce7> when is bitcoin going to become a registed IRC group?
1440 2011-01-08 23:04:40 <da2ce7> when we can hand out our own IP marks.
1441 2011-01-08 23:06:57 <marioxcc> da2ce7: IP?
1442 2011-01-08 23:09:45 mahadri has joined
1443 2011-01-08 23:10:42 <da2ce7> the name@ThisPart.
1444 2011-01-08 23:11:05 <da2ce7> I guees it is hostname.
1445 2011-01-08 23:11:29 <sipa> vhost
1446 2011-01-08 23:11:33 <sipa> cloak
1447 2011-01-08 23:14:45 gribble has joined
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1452 2011-01-08 23:26:51 <tcatm> does https://85.116.192.135:8338/ work?
1453 2011-01-08 23:30:53 <sipa> yes
1454 2011-01-08 23:31:14 <tcatm> great
1455 2011-01-08 23:31:34 altamic has joined
1456 2011-01-08 23:33:05 <sipa> ssl certificate is obivously not valid
1457 2011-01-08 23:33:15 <sipa> but i assume you know that
1458 2011-01-08 23:33:39 <tcatm> yep
1459 2011-01-08 23:34:02 da2ce7 has joined
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1466 2011-01-08 23:37:52 gavinandresen has joined
1467 2011-01-08 23:39:31 <gavinandresen> tcatm: just glanced at the IRC logs-- so the SSL problem is no cross-origin SSL fetching?
1468 2011-01-08 23:39:43 <tcatm> gavinandresen: exactly
1469 2011-01-08 23:40:23 <tcatm> + no way to verify certificate when using JSON-RPC so the calls silently fail
1470 2011-01-08 23:40:48 <gavinandresen> Would it work if the cert was valid I wonder....
1471 2011-01-08 23:41:21 <tcatm> Valid?
1472 2011-01-08 23:41:25 <gavinandresen> (I don't actually have a valid SSL cert to try it with right now, but maybe I'll buy one and try it)
1473 2011-01-08 23:41:30 <tcatm> You mean signed by a CA?
1474 2011-01-08 23:41:44 <gavinandresen> yeah, valid as in signed by a certificate authority that is built into your browser's list
1475 2011-01-08 23:42:01 <tcatm> The domain wouldn't match.
1476 2011-01-08 23:42:04 <gavinandresen> Actually, I wonder if it would work if you could tell the browser in advance to trust the self-signed cert
1477 2011-01-08 23:42:35 <gavinandresen> The domain would match if bitcoind is running on the right domain/ip....
1478 2011-01-08 23:42:47 <tcatm> Sure, on a desktop you can. On a mobile device it's probably impossible (iPhone)
1479 2011-01-08 23:43:29 <tcatm> I wrote a small SSL server that serves RPC and js-remote from a single port.
1480 2011-01-08 23:43:49 <sipa> http://www.realmb.com/droidCert/
1481 2011-01-08 23:43:58 ThomasV has joined
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1483 2011-01-08 23:45:57 <tcatm> If we want it to work directly with bitcoind and javascript the easiest method would be a custom encryption in Javascript
1484 2011-01-08 23:46:19 <nanotube> build a browser in javascript woo :)
1485 2011-01-08 23:47:11 * nanotube thinks maybe it would make sense to have a php interface to bitcoind as a separate option. that way, no cross-domain crap to deal with, since all the data fetching happens server-side in php...
1486 2011-01-08 23:47:23 <gavinandresen> tcatm: hmm? Still seems to me that running bitcoind on the same domain/IP as your web server, and telling bitcoind to use the same cert as the web server, aught to work.
1487 2011-01-08 23:48:02 <gavinandresen> OR running bitcoind on a different IP/domain, but with a CA-signed certificate.
1488 2011-01-08 23:48:43 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1489 2011-01-08 23:49:46 <tcatm> gavinandresen: that might indeed work
1490 2011-01-08 23:50:28 <gavinandresen> nanotube: Oof. All the web servers already have at least one, sometimes several, "plugin" mechanisms; routing JSON-RPC requests through Apache to bitcoind seems like a better approach than recreating Apache in bitcoin.
1491 2011-01-08 23:51:13 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1492 2011-01-08 23:51:49 <gavinandresen> Gotta go, talk to y'all later
1493 2011-01-08 23:51:59 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1494 2011-01-08 23:57:26 <nanotube> er... i didn't say to recreate apache in bitcoin. i was suggested to just make a php page to host on apache, which would interact with a locally-running bitcoind...
1495 2011-01-08 23:57:32 <nanotube> but oh well, too late he's gone.
1496 2011-01-08 23:57:39 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: ping?
1497 2011-01-08 23:58:20 <MT`AwAy> pong
1498 2011-01-08 23:58:47 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: please take a look: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Getting_started#nanotube_changes
1499 2011-01-08 23:59:45 <MT`AwAy> okay~
1500 2011-01-08 23:59:57 <MT`AwAy> let me check the diff