1 2011-01-09 00:01:25 <nanotube> please. :)
2 2011-01-09 00:03:15 Slix` has joined
3 2011-01-09 00:03:19 <nanotube> my edits are dec24 and jan2, for your reference.
4 2011-01-09 00:03:38 <tcatm> Now accounts confuse me. I have a total server balance that is 0.00 and a total account balance of -0.40
5 2011-01-09 00:03:45 <MT`AwAy> mh
6 2011-01-09 00:04:09 <MT`AwAy> I can understand Genjix wants to keep this page simple, but just rolling back the stuff is not the way to go
7 2011-01-09 00:06:57 <MT`AwAy> mh
8 2011-01-09 00:06:59 da2ce7 has joined
9 2011-01-09 00:12:15 r3dMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10 2011-01-09 00:13:50 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well... i guess just post your thoughts and we'll go from there. if you think the stuff is better off in a separate page, 'for people who want to know what's behind the curtain'... that's fine i'll make a separate one.
11 2011-01-09 00:17:31 <MT`AwAy> well, the "getting started" page was supposed to be a getting started, ie all you need to know when you're really new and want to start fast
12 2011-01-09 00:19:22 maazu has joined
13 2011-01-09 00:26:55 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, separate page it is, then. :)
14 2011-01-09 00:27:30 <MT`AwAy> sounds better to keep a place where we can direct new users
15 2011-01-09 00:27:43 <MT`AwAy> without throwing too many informations to them at once
16 2011-01-09 00:30:07 <nanotube> mm
17 2011-01-09 00:31:37 <da2ce7> The bitcoin.org site should have a Tor Hidden Service address...
18 2011-01-09 00:31:51 <kupo> it eo3w
19 2011-01-09 00:31:56 <kupo> does*
20 2011-01-09 00:32:04 <da2ce7> ah, what is it?
21 2011-01-09 00:32:25 <kupo> well it has starter bootstrap coin addresses
22 2011-01-09 00:32:32 <kupo> da2ce7: check the hidden wiki
23 2011-01-09 00:34:00 <da2ce7> iy6ni3wkqazp4ytu.onion is just for bitcoind.
24 2011-01-09 00:34:05 <da2ce7> not the website.
25 2011-01-09 00:34:32 <kupo> you can make a mirror
26 2011-01-09 00:35:38 <da2ce7> that would be silly, it would be good to be able to access the bitcoin forum throogh the hidden service.
27 2011-01-09 00:36:06 maazu has left ("Konversation terminated!")
28 2011-01-09 00:36:33 TD has joined
29 2011-01-09 00:36:40 <kupo> whats wrong with just accessing it through the web?
30 2011-01-09 00:36:44 <kupo> via tor
31 2011-01-09 00:38:03 <da2ce7> not heaps, other than hidden services are more secure and take load of the exit nodes.
32 2011-01-09 00:39:36 <kupo> and go down far more frequently
33 2011-01-09 00:40:47 <marioxcc> da2ce7: that depends on the hidden service
34 2011-01-09 00:40:53 <marioxcc> *kupo, sorry
35 2011-01-09 00:41:13 <marioxcc> there are long-lived and short-lived, just as with any other site
36 2011-01-09 00:42:05 <kupo> I`d say there less reliable over time that a normal website
37 2011-01-09 00:42:18 <marioxcc> why?
38 2011-01-09 00:42:27 <kupo> I`m not gonna be willing to defend an argument over it
39 2011-01-09 00:42:52 <da2ce7> kupo, there i no technical reason I can think of why they should be less reliable
40 2011-01-09 00:42:55 <da2ce7> *is
41 2011-01-09 00:43:04 <marioxcc> da2ce7: he don't want to discuss, not worth insisting
42 2011-01-09 00:43:09 <kupo> ty
43 2011-01-09 00:43:22 <marioxcc> i don't have time for do so, anyways
44 2011-01-09 00:43:32 <da2ce7> kk
45 2011-01-09 00:43:52 <kupo> but bringing back the idea da2ce7 you could grab some freehosting and created a mirror as a hidden service
46 2011-01-09 00:43:57 <ThomasV> did anyone develop a mtgox applet for gnome ?
47 2011-01-09 00:43:57 <marioxcc> but da2ce7, you don't need a hidden service in order to get the trafic directly instead of by an exit relay
48 2011-01-09 00:44:17 <marioxcc> you could use exit enclaving for instance
49 2011-01-09 00:44:17 <kupo> marioxcc: oh ? explain
50 2011-01-09 00:44:35 <marioxcc> hold a moment
51 2011-01-09 00:44:38 <kupo> ok
52 2011-01-09 00:46:04 <marioxcc> i can't find it
53 2011-01-09 00:46:30 <marioxcc> but there is an option to say, if you run a relay (exit or not) and other service to send the traffic to your service directly by you
54 2011-01-09 00:46:41 <marioxcc> instead of by an exit realy and then to you
55 2011-01-09 00:50:55 <marioxcc> it is called exit enclaving
56 2011-01-09 00:51:05 <marioxcc> and people in #tor tells me it is automatic
57 2011-01-09 00:52:56 <da2ce7> well I think that it is inportant for the bitcoin community to develop good tor infranstructure.
58 2011-01-09 00:53:17 <marioxcc> there are other anonimity networks
59 2011-01-09 00:53:24 <marioxcc> I support tor, but it isn't the only option
60 2011-01-09 00:53:30 <marioxcc> also, we don't depend on a particular page
61 2011-01-09 00:53:46 <marioxcc> is not like the cliet looks up for other clients in the forums or so
62 2011-01-09 00:54:16 <da2ce7> I'm working on that also... I have made the bounty for the feenet-bitcoin client
63 2011-01-09 00:54:45 <marioxcc> ¿bounty?
64 2011-01-09 00:55:04 <marioxcc> could you reformulate the phrase without "bounty". i'm unable to undestand "bounty" at this time.
65 2011-01-09 00:55:13 <da2ce7> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0
66 2011-01-09 00:55:15 <bitbot> Bitcoin over Freenet (350BTC in total)
67 2011-01-09 00:56:07 <da2ce7> My goal is to connect the bitcoin/freenet netowrk to the web network with tor
68 2011-01-09 00:56:38 <da2ce7> this will allow us to have 100% firewalled freenet bitcoin.
69 2011-01-09 00:56:48 <marioxcc> I don't like freenet (Java BS IMHO)
70 2011-01-09 00:57:03 <marioxcc> there is however, alredy support for a SOCKS proxy
71 2011-01-09 00:57:04 <da2ce7> well it works.
72 2011-01-09 00:57:23 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
73 2011-01-09 00:57:27 <marioxcc> of course, you can't have incomming connections by tor (other than a hidden service or exit enclaving)
74 2011-01-09 00:58:10 <marioxcc> BTW: why freenet and not tor?
75 2011-01-09 00:58:35 <nanotube> why not both?
76 2011-01-09 00:58:41 <da2ce7> Both are inportant
77 2011-01-09 00:58:48 <nanotube> the more avenues for access, the better.
78 2011-01-09 00:59:01 <nanotube> someone's already made an i2p mirror, iirc
79 2011-01-09 00:59:06 <marioxcc> both is double effort and less than double GAIN
80 2011-01-09 00:59:08 <marioxcc> *gain
81 2011-01-09 00:59:13 <marioxcc> sorry, aciddentally locked caps
82 2011-01-09 00:59:16 <marioxcc> hehe
83 2011-01-09 00:59:29 <nanotube> remap your capslock to ctl :)
84 2011-01-09 00:59:36 <marioxcc> i did
85 2011-01-09 01:00:00 <nanotube> so how did you lock caps then...
86 2011-01-09 01:00:07 <da2ce7> they should accomodate and build upon eachother. Bitcoin on Freenet still needs to conenct to the real web. Tor will supply the way to do that connection.
87 2011-01-09 01:00:24 <marioxcc> nanotube: finger mistrake for C-N
88 2011-01-09 01:00:36 <marioxcc> (note difference to C-n)
89 2011-01-09 01:01:12 <marioxcc> da2ce7: why not only tor?
90 2011-01-09 01:01:24 <marioxcc> you want to use freenet as a gateway for tor?
91 2011-01-09 01:01:43 <da2ce7> no, the other way arround.
92 2011-01-09 01:02:10 <marioxcc> uh?
93 2011-01-09 01:02:10 <da2ce7> each block will have its own CHK addresss
94 2011-01-09 01:02:19 <marioxcc> let me see
95 2011-01-09 01:02:25 <marioxcc> you want to store the blocks in freenet?
96 2011-01-09 01:02:33 <da2ce7> yep.
97 2011-01-09 01:02:45 <marioxcc> interesting
98 2011-01-09 01:02:51 <da2ce7> and tor can allow you to download the chk lists quickly
99 2011-01-09 01:03:05 <marioxcc> i'm not familiar enough with freenet
100 2011-01-09 01:03:20 <marioxcc> apart from storing, do it routes general TCP traffic?
101 2011-01-09 01:03:44 <da2ce7> it is a inderpendant network. there is no connection to the real internet
102 2011-01-09 01:03:51 <da2ce7> there are no freenet 'exit nodes'
103 2011-01-09 01:04:03 <marioxcc> nevermind, I will read the docs
104 2011-01-09 01:04:11 <marioxcc> tell me more about your idea
105 2011-01-09 01:04:25 <marioxcc> why do you want to store the blocks in freenet instead of in all clients?
106 2011-01-09 01:04:28 <marioxcc> (as currently)
107 2011-01-09 01:04:46 <marioxcc> and how do you know which freenet address the next block (or any other given one) is stored in?
108 2011-01-09 01:05:16 Diablo-D3 has joined
109 2011-01-09 01:05:52 <da2ce7> that is the hard part... we make specal 'lists' that cointain all the addresses to the blocks stored on freenet. The bitcoin client then download's the blocks.
110 2011-01-09 01:06:42 <da2ce7> when a new block is made, every client that is conencted to the real world and the freenet network insets the new block into freenet.
111 2011-01-09 01:07:22 <da2ce7> the hard part is announcing it to the bitcoin clients that are only connected to freenet.
112 2011-01-09 01:08:08 <da2ce7> the other part involves sending 'transactions' arround the freenet network, untill they reach a client that is conencted to the real world also
113 2011-01-09 01:08:33 <marioxcc> i think you're going to get a complexity problem
114 2011-01-09 01:08:39 <marioxcc> complex software is more error prone
115 2011-01-09 01:08:51 <marioxcc> you can almost solve it splitting into layers
116 2011-01-09 01:08:57 <marioxcc> but let's see
117 2011-01-09 01:09:06 <marioxcc> exactly, what problem do your model addressesssess?
118 2011-01-09 01:09:09 Mephistopheles has joined
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120 2011-01-09 01:10:16 <da2ce7> storage of the block chain, annoymous connection to the bitcoin network. Bitcoin over darknet.
121 2011-01-09 01:11:24 <da2ce7> I suppose that the best way would be to have some 'trusted' block addresss list sites.
122 2011-01-09 01:11:34 <da2ce7> then use FMS for transactions.
123 2011-01-09 01:11:34 <luke-jr> what is the return code from 'sendfrom'?
124 2011-01-09 01:11:39 <luke-jr> how can I see my transaction?>
125 2011-01-09 01:11:47 <marioxcc> da2ce7: so in a higher abstraction level, it is to improove the resistance of the BTC network to censorship and to improove anonimity
126 2011-01-09 01:11:48 <marioxcc> is that?
127 2011-01-09 01:13:18 <marioxcc> oh, BTW
128 2011-01-09 01:13:32 <da2ce7> well my long-term goal is to develop the infrastructure to do commerce with anonymity
129 2011-01-09 01:13:46 <marioxcc> it is alredy possible to do so
130 2011-01-09 01:14:05 <marioxcc> just using the existing SOCKS interface and a trustworthy proxy (custom or tor)
131 2011-01-09 01:14:08 <marioxcc> (for instance)
132 2011-01-09 01:14:37 <marioxcc> i think for the project to be sucessfull you should define clearly a simple set of goals and then have any action justified
133 2011-01-09 01:14:52 <marioxcc> some ideas may be great, but they may not fit there
134 2011-01-09 01:15:11 <marioxcc> for instance, why do you want to store blocks in freenet instead of in each client HD?
135 2011-01-09 01:15:20 <da2ce7> you need more than just bitcoin... you need a whole network of trusted peers, data sharing, communication, etc.
136 2011-01-09 01:15:40 <marioxcc> trusted? well, no really
137 2011-01-09 01:15:46 <da2ce7> a dark net is the natural model
138 2011-01-09 01:16:14 <marioxcc> but you're lefting some questions unanswered
139 2011-01-09 01:16:34 <da2ce7> no, your client will have the blocks on the HDD just as before.
140 2011-01-09 01:16:34 <marioxcc> you will have to answer them, for yourself at least
141 2011-01-09 01:16:53 <marioxcc> then why to duplicate data in freenet?
142 2011-01-09 01:17:11 <da2ce7> why not? It is a very good place to store data.
143 2011-01-09 01:17:37 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f5c7e8ae481662ffd15fa28a7193b00e6a200c38627c9c5a02610f4d91ea316c#i595590
144 2011-01-09 01:17:42 <da2ce7> it is a distiubuted file system
145 2011-01-09 01:17:46 <luke-jr> where did my input go? -.-
146 2011-01-09 01:17:52 <marioxcc> why not? -> because if there is no real justification for do so you just increase resource usage both by freenet contributors and those which will have to use it
147 2011-01-09 01:18:31 <marioxcc> luke-jr: strange, are you using the default bitcoin client?
148 2011-01-09 01:18:40 <luke-jr> no, I modified it to not round
149 2011-01-09 01:18:53 <marioxcc> that may be the problem
150 2011-01-09 01:19:17 <marioxcc> well, those 0.02 are takenth as transaction fee
151 2011-01-09 01:19:17 <luke-jr> â¦
152 2011-01-09 01:19:26 <luke-jr> there should be no fee
153 2011-01-09 01:19:32 <luke-jr> I didn't authorize a fee
154 2011-01-09 01:19:35 <marioxcc> luke-jr: you did
155 2011-01-09 01:19:40 <nanotube> marioxcc: the idea is that even if the plain-net bitcoin network gets ddos'ed or banned by isps, it would still be able to run entirely on freenet.
156 2011-01-09 01:19:43 <marioxcc> by not including a output=input
157 2011-01-09 01:19:48 <marioxcc> output-input= free
158 2011-01-09 01:19:57 <marioxcc> there is no explicit "fee" field AFAIK
159 2011-01-09 01:20:00 <luke-jr> marioxcc: I didn't do that. -.-
160 2011-01-09 01:20:25 <nanotube> marioxcc: that is correct. no fee field.
161 2011-01-09 01:20:44 <marioxcc> luke-jr: check your client
162 2011-01-09 01:20:54 <luke-jr> perhaps more importantly, 'sendfrom' took the moneys from the wrong account
163 2011-01-09 01:21:07 <marioxcc> i think it is worth to remind you the computer don't does what we want it to do, it does what we tell it to do, which isn't always equal to the first :)
164 2011-01-09 01:21:22 <marioxcc> there may be a bug on your modified version of the client, please check it
165 2011-01-09 01:21:36 <marioxcc> nanotube: ok, thanks you for confiramtion :)
166 2011-01-09 01:22:16 <marioxcc> regarding the freenet idea, it is useless by itself, i think, you need running nodes to have a bitcoin network
167 2011-01-09 01:22:35 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
168 2011-01-09 01:22:36 <marioxcc> if you have running nodes you can store data in them, then freenet becomes useless in this case, from my viewpoint
169 2011-01-09 01:23:25 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
170 2011-01-09 01:23:43 <da2ce7> you will always need to bootstrap new nodes, having all the data on freenet allows nodes to bootstrap without leaving the darknet.
171 2011-01-09 01:23:53 <nanotube> right
172 2011-01-09 01:24:00 <nanotube> i think it would be nice
173 2011-01-09 01:24:03 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
174 2011-01-09 01:24:05 <marioxcc> da2ce7: but you need to conect to live nodes, one way or another
175 2011-01-09 01:24:11 <nanotube> though i'm not even a freenetter. :)
176 2011-01-09 01:24:33 <marioxcc> freenet won't do that because as you said, it don't routes traffic
177 2011-01-09 01:24:56 <nanotube> marioxcc: it does, afaik... but only within freenet
178 2011-01-09 01:25:10 <marioxcc> nanotube: of course, I mean general purpose TCP trafic
179 2011-01-09 01:25:13 <marioxcc> like tor for instance
180 2011-01-09 01:25:32 <da2ce7> no, however there is nothing stopping new blocks being insterted very qickly into freenet.
181 2011-01-09 01:26:08 <marioxcc> uh?
182 2011-01-09 01:26:45 <marioxcc> all what you do by using freenet is to transfer some load (block transmission) from BitCoin nodes to freenet nodes.
183 2011-01-09 01:27:29 <marioxcc> which I find to be a artifficial and avoidable load and dependency (read software dependency) on freenet
184 2011-01-09 01:27:51 <da2ce7> well in essence yes, but this isn't bad thing. all we are doing is placing data into the darknet.
185 2011-01-09 01:28:07 <da2ce7> that is the entire purpose of a darknet.
186 2011-01-09 01:28:13 <marioxcc> you didn't got the point...
187 2011-01-09 01:28:22 <marioxcc> :/
188 2011-01-09 01:30:10 <dsg> marioxcc: Not every bitcoin client will be inserting into freenet. Probably very few people will run such clients. How does that negatively affect you if you decide not to do so?
189 2011-01-09 01:30:30 <dsg> I don't think anyone has proposed adding freenet-depending code into mainline bitcoin.
190 2011-01-09 01:31:02 <marioxcc> dsg: I don't mean that
191 2011-01-09 01:31:16 <marioxcc> just there is no need and no benefit to use darknet to store blocks
192 2011-01-09 01:31:21 <dsg> da2ce7, for what it's worth, I really like your idea. bitcoin blocks are a good fit for freenet, and it would give bitcoin a boost with freenetters :)
193 2011-01-09 01:31:42 <marioxcc> that's what you have live nodes, and in the first place, you alredy connect to them, use them"
194 2011-01-09 01:31:47 <da2ce7> when client A (who is connected to both freenet and tor), gets a new block from tor, it inserts that block into freenet.
195 2011-01-09 01:32:03 <dsg> marioxcc: No need, sure. There is a benefit in adding a new, difficult-to-censor way to connect to the network.
196 2011-01-09 01:32:19 <marioxcc> dsg: no, because you anyway have to connect to live nodes
197 2011-01-09 01:32:35 <marioxcc> you don't delete the need to connect-to-live-nodes
198 2011-01-09 01:32:43 <marioxcc> you just add the need to connect-to-freenet-nodes
199 2011-01-09 01:32:45 <dsg> marioxcc: No, someone does. But not all freenet clients.
200 2011-01-09 01:33:05 <marioxcc> yes, I undestand this is a separate system
201 2011-01-09 01:33:27 <dsg> bitcoin is easily blocked
202 2011-01-09 01:33:38 <dsg> freenet not so.
203 2011-01-09 01:33:41 <marioxcc> ...
204 2011-01-09 01:33:56 <marioxcc> there isn't worst deaf than the one don't wants to hear
205 2011-01-09 01:34:13 <dsg> I do not think you understand :)
206 2011-01-09 01:35:16 <dsg> But I see others have tried to explain to you already, so I won't bother.
207 2011-01-09 01:35:27 <marioxcc> nevermind, I alredy lost enought time trying to expose the uselessness of storing block in freenet network
208 2011-01-09 01:36:32 <marioxcc> just think by yourself: if you trade the need for bitcoin-node connectivity for bitcoin-node connectivity AND freenet-node connectivity, what's the gain
209 2011-01-09 01:36:33 <marioxcc> (don't tellme)
210 2011-01-09 01:44:40 <da2ce7> well cya guys, :)
211 2011-01-09 01:56:58 <Diablo-D3> man
212 2011-01-09 01:57:01 <Diablo-D3> fucking palin
213 2011-01-09 01:57:15 <Diablo-D3> I hope she goes to prison for the rest of her ugly little life
214 2011-01-09 01:57:28 <Diablo-D3> fucking whore
215 2011-01-09 01:57:41 <AAA_awright> ...
216 2011-01-09 01:58:12 <Diablo-D3> dude, she tried to have a congresswoman assassinated
217 2011-01-09 01:58:14 <AAA_awright> What was it this time? Did she go on a rampage and shoot a dozen people?
218 2011-01-09 01:58:30 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: When was this? I think I missed that story
219 2011-01-09 01:58:40 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: its funny you say a dozen
220 2011-01-09 01:58:45 <Diablo-D3> thats how many people were shot
221 2011-01-09 01:59:02 <Diablo-D3> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/congresswoman-gabrie.html
222 2011-01-09 01:59:15 <AAA_awright> Oh yeah that's right, it wasn't her it was someone COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO HER
223 2011-01-09 01:59:38 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: it was someone working for sarah palin and/or the tea party
224 2011-01-09 02:00:05 <Diablo-D3> sarah palin doesnt actually know how to fire a gun
225 2011-01-09 02:00:20 <Diablo-D3> so obviously she couldnt do it herself
226 2011-01-09 02:00:36 <AAA_awright> Funny because the reported videos he published sound just like that IRS bomber
227 2011-01-09 02:01:03 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: read boing boing's writeup
228 2011-01-09 02:01:27 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: What about it?
229 2011-01-09 02:02:02 <Diablo-D3> dont you think its a little coincidental?
230 2011-01-09 02:02:21 <AAA_awright> I saw her website during the campaign season
231 2011-01-09 02:02:23 <AAA_awright> No, not at all
232 2011-01-09 02:02:44 <AAA_awright> "In conclusion, reading the second United States constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver! No! I won't trust in god!"
233 2011-01-09 02:02:44 <AAA_awright> Yeah, that totally sounds like someone who works for "sarah palin and/or the tea party"
234 2011-01-09 02:02:46 <Diablo-D3> so its okay to name 20 people and put gun sights over their congressional districts?
235 2011-01-09 02:03:06 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: actually, that sounds EXACTLY like tea partiers
236 2011-01-09 02:03:31 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: The government is brainwashing us with grammar, gold, and god?
237 2011-01-09 02:04:12 <Diablo-D3> yes, look how nonsensical that sounds
238 2011-01-09 02:04:24 <Diablo-D3> thats clearly a tea partier at work
239 2011-01-09 02:04:32 <kiba> it's true that public schooling is not about educating the people
240 2011-01-09 02:04:35 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: I wasn't aware of the controversy when it was published six months ago... It sounds like people looking to blame people they disagree with
241 2011-01-09 02:04:38 <kiba> it's about control
242 2011-01-09 02:04:49 <AAA_awright> What is that called again? Some fallacy
243 2011-01-09 02:05:28 <alowm> ad hominem? attacking the person and not the argument
244 2011-01-09 02:05:44 <Diablo-D3> kiba: yes, and gabrielle giffords was controlled.
245 2011-01-09 02:06:17 <AAA_awright> She was on Fox News just yesterday saying how we need to cut Congress's salaries, in addition to the budget cuts
246 2011-01-09 02:06:29 <AAA_awright> If you're looking for an extremest to go shoot up, she wasn't it
247 2011-01-09 02:06:51 <kiba> Diablo-D3: obviously, that was not what I meant
248 2011-01-09 02:07:00 <kiba> it's not a conspricy that public schooling is not about education
249 2011-01-09 02:07:04 <AAA_awright> alowm: Yeah
250 2011-01-09 02:07:26 <alowm> kiba: look up "the six lesson schoolteacher" unless you are already familiar with it :)
251 2011-01-09 02:07:29 <kiba> what kind of idiots assume the worst?
252 2011-01-09 02:07:48 <Diablo-D3> Im sorry, but when I see sarah palin going after 20 democrats who backed up the american people when we needed it the most
253 2011-01-09 02:07:51 <kiba> alowm: I would say public schooling is a mythology
254 2011-01-09 02:07:56 <Diablo-D3> and one of them ends up dead shortly after the election
255 2011-01-09 02:08:07 <Diablo-D3> and shes from AZ, which is known for their tea party terrorism
256 2011-01-09 02:08:21 <alowm> she died? last i saw she was in the hospital and expected to recover
257 2011-01-09 02:08:26 <kiba> Diablo-D3: it far outside the norm
258 2011-01-09 02:08:40 <Diablo-D3> alowm: shes not dead, but that just means it was a botched job
259 2011-01-09 02:08:41 <kiba> for a politican to use assassination tool in American politic
260 2011-01-09 02:08:50 <Diablo-D3> alowm: usually a shot to the head from point blank == death
261 2011-01-09 02:08:51 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: I wouldn't quite call her a tea-partier, not by any means... blue-dog?
262 2011-01-09 02:08:59 <alowm> yeah, generally a headshot isn't intended to maim
263 2011-01-09 02:09:22 <Diablo-D3> they intended to send a clear message
264 2011-01-09 02:09:25 <kiba> we don't know why the shooter
265 2011-01-09 02:09:27 <Diablo-D3> help the american people, and you will die
266 2011-01-09 02:09:37 <kiba> did what they did
267 2011-01-09 02:09:39 <kiba> yet
268 2011-01-09 02:09:45 <kiba> Diablo-D3: there you go, jumping to conclusion
269 2011-01-09 02:10:01 <kiba> we still don't know what the fuck is going on
270 2011-01-09 02:10:03 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: Meet your congressman to express conserns, and you die?
271 2011-01-09 02:10:14 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: they were just in the way
272 2011-01-09 02:10:25 <Diablo-D3> and some of those people were her staff too, btw
273 2011-01-09 02:10:37 <Diablo-D3> and to a tea partier "well, thats the same thing, auyp"
274 2011-01-09 02:10:43 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: If you just want to take out a person that's the wrong way to do it... He was suicidal, if anything
275 2011-01-09 02:10:44 noagendamarket has joined
276 2011-01-09 02:11:02 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: shooting someone in the head is usually the most effective way of killing someone
277 2011-01-09 02:11:17 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
278 2011-01-09 02:11:17 noagendamarket has joined
279 2011-01-09 02:11:19 <kiba> he probably spray and shoot
280 2011-01-09 02:11:22 <kiba> he hit 15 other people
281 2011-01-09 02:11:24 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: You don't then proceed to fire 18 rounds in 6 seconds
282 2011-01-09 02:11:45 <Diablo-D3> of course, gotta make it look like a crazy man
283 2011-01-09 02:11:59 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if he was paid enough to make it worth it
284 2011-01-09 02:12:05 <kiba> we still don't know what this "crazy man" did
285 2011-01-09 02:12:09 <kiba> err
286 2011-01-09 02:12:10 <kiba> motive
287 2011-01-09 02:12:20 <alowm> you don't need to pay someone if they're doing it for idealogical reasons
288 2011-01-09 02:12:27 <kiba> very little information is avaiable beside the usual political bashing
289 2011-01-09 02:12:28 <Diablo-D3> kiba: I dont particularly trust the meida on this
290 2011-01-09 02:12:37 <alowm> they guy could just as well have shot up an abortion clinic
291 2011-01-09 02:12:41 <Diablo-D3> no one is reporting on the palin connection
292 2011-01-09 02:12:43 <noagendamarket> what are they saying about ti?
293 2011-01-09 02:12:43 <alowm> that*
294 2011-01-09 02:12:53 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: WHAT PALIN CONNECTION
295 2011-01-09 02:13:03 <luke-jr> argh, more $ wasted
296 2011-01-09 02:13:15 <luke-jr> which the stupid client would let me test w/o actually doing it
297 2011-01-09 02:13:38 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: PALIN WANTED GIFFORDS "REMOVED" FROM CONGRESS
298 2011-01-09 02:13:43 <kiba> I see Padlin connection
299 2011-01-09 02:13:44 <AAA_awright> Forget Palin, what about Obama, Bush, and Pelosi!?! They clearly caused this too, because without them, we wouldn't have people worried about the government!
300 2011-01-09 02:13:47 <kiba> what utter bulshit
301 2011-01-09 02:13:52 <kiba> s/bulshit/bullshit
302 2011-01-09 02:14:02 <AAA_awright> There would be no government to complain about!
303 2011-01-09 02:14:08 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: actually, lets drop the first and the last there
304 2011-01-09 02:14:09 <AAA_awright> But NO, No one is reporting on that
305 2011-01-09 02:14:14 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: YES WHAT ABOUT NUSH
306 2011-01-09 02:14:17 <Diablo-D3> BUSH
307 2011-01-09 02:14:22 <Diablo-D3> the guy is a fucking criminal
308 2011-01-09 02:14:26 <Diablo-D3> why wasnt it him getting shot
309 2011-01-09 02:14:35 <Diablo-D3> hes the one that tried to pull is NWO shit
310 2011-01-09 02:14:37 <Diablo-D3> *his
311 2011-01-09 02:14:50 <Diablo-D3> the NWO shit will NEVER work
312 2011-01-09 02:14:59 <Diablo-D3> Bush and his ilk will never be the kings of the world
313 2011-01-09 02:15:01 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck do they bother
314 2011-01-09 02:15:03 <AAA_awright> ...And Obama isn't?
315 2011-01-09 02:15:06 <AAA_awright> Or what
316 2011-01-09 02:15:11 <noagendamarket> its probably going to brign in gun laws
317 2011-01-09 02:15:13 <Diablo-D3> Obama is being lead around by his dick by Congress
318 2011-01-09 02:15:24 <Diablo-D3> noagendamarket: yes, which the people must resist
319 2011-01-09 02:15:35 <noagendamarket> not if it keeps happening
320 2011-01-09 02:15:37 <AAA_awright> I mean talk about New World Order, you have an actual White House FILLED with revolutionaries
321 2011-01-09 02:15:48 <AAA_awright> Who ACTUALLY LITERALLY BOMBED GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
322 2011-01-09 02:15:53 <kermit> ##politics
323 2011-01-09 02:15:56 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: bullshit
324 2011-01-09 02:15:58 <noagendamarket> all al quaeda would have to do is a couple of mass shootinfgs
325 2011-01-09 02:16:02 <kiba> can people discuss this more rational
326 2011-01-09 02:16:06 <kiba> ly>
327 2011-01-09 02:16:11 <noagendamarket> then watch what happens
328 2011-01-09 02:16:23 <kiba> one nutjob can cause a massacre
329 2011-01-09 02:16:25 <Diablo-D3> noagendamarket: it just means every single person able to carry a gun should be armed at all times
330 2011-01-09 02:16:26 <AAA_awright> kermit: ##politico the troll-free politics channel
331 2011-01-09 02:16:33 <kiba> I don't see how Al Queada can't do the same
332 2011-01-09 02:16:36 <kiba> but obviously
333 2011-01-09 02:16:37 <noagendamarket> they only had to fly two planes half well
334 2011-01-09 02:16:37 marioxcc has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
335 2011-01-09 02:16:51 <noagendamarket> to cause an over reaction
336 2011-01-09 02:17:07 <kiba> Al Queada like "daring" plans
337 2011-01-09 02:17:22 <kermit> AAA_awright: if thats true, then i stand by my suggestion for the discusssion at hand :
338 2011-01-09 02:17:26 <AAA_awright> Also, unless someone wants to start talking about BitCoin I would say it's open season, short of crapflooding
339 2011-01-09 02:17:31 <kiba> mass shooting is a great way to take a hundred of people out
340 2011-01-09 02:17:54 <noagendamarket> yes and then they brin g in bodyscanners at the local mall
341 2011-01-09 02:18:02 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
342 2011-01-09 02:18:03 <kiba> noagendamarket: which does nothing
343 2011-01-09 02:18:04 <noagendamarket> at football fields
344 2011-01-09 02:18:06 <kiba> just shoot the guard
345 2011-01-09 02:18:09 <kiba> shoot the guard...
346 2011-01-09 02:18:16 <noagendamarket> thats not the point
347 2011-01-09 02:18:21 <noagendamarket> its theater
348 2011-01-09 02:18:31 <kiba> security theater
349 2011-01-09 02:18:47 <alowm> an article mentioned that the dhs wants to add body scanners to buses, subways, etc.
350 2011-01-09 02:18:53 <noagendamarket> How many people the guy shot had guns?
351 2011-01-09 02:19:02 <kiba> we're scared of a terrorist attack more than a car accident, which is the leading cause of death for people under 45
352 2011-01-09 02:19:03 <noagendamarket> I bet none did
353 2011-01-09 02:19:31 <kiba> alowm: you can simply blow up the bus
354 2011-01-09 02:19:43 <noagendamarket> thats how they disarmed australians
355 2011-01-09 02:19:46 <kiba> blowing up bombs seem to be rather hard though
356 2011-01-09 02:19:50 <noagendamarket> one guy shot 31 people
357 2011-01-09 02:19:56 <noagendamarket> now no one can have them
358 2011-01-09 02:19:57 <kiba> of which have no gun?
359 2011-01-09 02:20:15 <noagendamarket> yes
360 2011-01-09 02:20:18 <alowm> you can add as many layers of "security" and checkpoints as you want, there will always be a large grouping of people to attack outside the "secure" area
361 2011-01-09 02:20:45 <kiba> real security had to be done like an intelligence gathering operation
362 2011-01-09 02:20:46 <noagendamarket> just do a suicide bomb at the checkpoint
363 2011-01-09 02:20:57 <noagendamarket> after all thats where all the people are waiyting
364 2011-01-09 02:21:07 <noagendamarket> its a choke point
365 2011-01-09 02:21:31 <noagendamarket> why get on the p[lanme at all?
366 2011-01-09 02:21:39 <kiba> it's DARING
367 2011-01-09 02:21:55 <kiba> terrorist theater
368 2011-01-09 02:22:24 <kiba> haha, we can blow up your most guarded transportation system
369 2011-01-09 02:22:31 <kiba> and crash them into building
370 2011-01-09 02:22:34 <noagendamarket> how come all the supposed terrorist keep showing up alive?
371 2011-01-09 02:22:55 <kiba> hmm?
372 2011-01-09 02:24:12 <kiba> well
373 2011-01-09 02:24:17 <kiba> all I am going to say
374 2011-01-09 02:24:30 <kiba> there's going to be another intelligence failure, and US will suffer an attack
375 2011-01-09 02:24:49 <noagendamarket> probably a cyber attack
376 2011-01-09 02:24:51 <kiba> and all the TSA security measure will be moot if they used the planes again
377 2011-01-09 02:25:31 <kiba> if you have a cop on there who can use force...maybe it will be stopped
378 2011-01-09 02:25:32 <kiba> who know
379 2011-01-09 02:25:37 <kiba> err
380 2011-01-09 02:25:44 <kiba> I don't think passenger is going to be passive
381 2011-01-09 02:25:45 <kiba> anymore
382 2011-01-09 02:25:49 <kiba> they're going to be aggressive
383 2011-01-09 02:26:03 <alowm> the only changes that have increased security since sept. 11 are strengthening the cockpit doors and the fact that passengers will attempt to stop hijackers now
384 2011-01-09 02:26:19 <alowm> because they know they're not going to land at an airfield and be ransomed, they're going to die
385 2011-01-09 02:26:51 <alowm> the days of leila khaled are over
386 2011-01-09 02:26:52 <kiba> yeah
387 2011-01-09 02:27:02 <kiba> that's the biggest security measure you have right there
388 2011-01-09 02:27:20 <kiba> it ain't going to be a cakewalk anymore
389 2011-01-09 02:27:20 <alowm> my goal is to abscond from this country before it's made illegal
390 2011-01-09 02:27:35 <kiba> forget all the TSA security measure
391 2011-01-09 02:27:59 <luke-jr> abscond?
392 2011-01-09 02:28:28 <alowm> ehh... fancy word for departing quickly and secretly
393 2011-01-09 02:28:33 <luke-jr> where to?
394 2011-01-09 02:28:34 <alowm> with minimal fuss :)
395 2011-01-09 02:28:38 <luke-jr> everywhere else is already worse
396 2011-01-09 02:28:47 <kiba> off to some island
397 2011-01-09 02:28:58 <luke-jr> lol sure
398 2011-01-09 02:29:05 <luke-jr> like there's unclaimed islands still
399 2011-01-09 02:29:07 <alowm> probably a top five country on the human development index
400 2011-01-09 02:29:20 <luke-jr> alowm: already worse
401 2011-01-09 02:29:30 <luke-jr> maybe someday we'll make it into space
402 2011-01-09 02:29:36 <luke-jr> lots of room to hide out there for a while
403 2011-01-09 02:29:52 <alowm> how is a country like denmark/sweden/norway worse than the US? O_o
404 2011-01-09 02:30:00 <kiba> and then we will have our first interstellar war!
405 2011-01-09 02:30:00 <alowm> unless you're a conservative, etc.
406 2011-01-09 02:30:01 <luke-jr> MUCH worse
407 2011-01-09 02:30:16 <luke-jr> alowm: um, yes. liberalism is the problem
408 2011-01-09 02:30:29 * kiba get all giddy invading the US capital as a drop trooper
409 2011-01-09 02:30:32 <alowm> can you give an example?
410 2011-01-09 02:30:38 <alowm> i've been doing research and not seen too many cons
411 2011-01-09 02:30:48 <luke-jr> alowm: ⦠everything the US is heading toward?
412 2011-01-09 02:30:53 <kiba> liberalism, conservatism?
413 2011-01-09 02:30:59 <kiba> naw,
414 2011-01-09 02:31:01 <luke-jr> everything all those other countries have already fallen into?
415 2011-01-09 02:31:04 <kiba> they're both statist idealogy
416 2011-01-09 02:31:09 <noagendamarket> new zealand
417 2011-01-09 02:31:11 <noagendamarket> lol
418 2011-01-09 02:31:17 <alowm> i don't see scandinavian really heading towards serfdom
419 2011-01-09 02:31:18 <luke-jr> IIRC NZ is one of the worst
420 2011-01-09 02:31:23 <alowm> -n
421 2011-01-09 02:31:34 <luke-jr> serfdom would be an improvement
422 2011-01-09 02:31:47 <alowm> serfs paid less taxes than the US middle class currently do
423 2011-01-09 02:32:34 <noagendamarket> becoma amish
424 2011-01-09 02:32:42 marioxcc has joined
425 2011-01-09 02:32:48 theymos has joined
426 2011-01-09 02:32:49 <luke-jr> alowm: every nation except the USA and some Islamic country, have done away with parental rights
427 2011-01-09 02:32:59 <marioxcc> oh, no, still discussing politics?
428 2011-01-09 02:33:03 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: no, that's a heretical sect
429 2011-01-09 02:33:11 <alowm> luke-jr: parental rights?
430 2011-01-09 02:33:15 <marioxcc> sect?
431 2011-01-09 02:33:24 <luke-jr> alowm: yes
432 2011-01-09 02:33:47 <luke-jr> the father's supreme unquestionable authority over how he raises his children
433 2011-01-09 02:34:01 <alowm> ahh, ok, that doesn't affect me directly
434 2011-01-09 02:34:12 <marioxcc> could you please use ##politics or private messages?
435 2011-01-09 02:34:42 <luke-jr> how about #BitCoin-Politics?
436 2011-01-09 02:34:44 slush has joined
437 2011-01-09 02:34:47 <luke-jr> how about #BitCoin-Politics ?
438 2011-01-09 02:34:53 <alowm> noagendamarket: have you seen amish rollerblading? :)
439 2011-01-09 02:35:13 <marioxcc> luke-jr: fine, as long as it isn't there
440 2011-01-09 02:35:57 <noagendamarket> alown no
441 2011-01-09 02:36:06 <alowm> google it, it's quite entertaining
442 2011-01-09 02:36:41 13WAAYULM has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
443 2011-01-09 02:37:03 <noagendamarket> do they put rollerbaldes on their horses?
444 2011-01-09 02:37:03 <marioxcc> back on topic
445 2011-01-09 02:37:05 <marioxcc> luke-jr: how is that patch going?
446 2011-01-09 02:37:16 <luke-jr> marioxcc: eating away at my limited funds â¹
447 2011-01-09 02:37:24 <luke-jr> putting huge tx fees on my tests
448 2011-01-09 02:37:39 <marioxcc> luke-jr: oh
449 2011-01-09 02:37:48 <marioxcc> luke-jr: tellme your direction I will send you some
450 2011-01-09 02:38:00 <luke-jr> direction? O.o
451 2011-01-09 02:38:04 <marioxcc> sorry
452 2011-01-09 02:38:05 <marioxcc> address
453 2011-01-09 02:38:19 <marioxcc> they're the same on spanish, my native language and sometimes I get confussed
454 2011-01-09 02:38:25 <luke-jr> hehe, dunno while I have bitcoind in debugger XD
455 2011-01-09 02:38:39 <marioxcc> then how did you enter bitcoins?
456 2011-01-09 02:38:47 <luke-jr> ?
457 2011-01-09 02:38:52 <marioxcc> what're you spending?
458 2011-01-09 02:38:57 <luke-jr> I'm stepping through bitcoind right now
459 2011-01-09 02:39:00 <marioxcc> bitcoins from your address
460 2011-01-09 02:39:14 <luke-jr> about 0.02 BTC wasted so far
461 2011-01-09 02:39:20 <marioxcc> not so much really
462 2011-01-09 02:39:26 <luke-jr> it's a lot for me :P
463 2011-01-09 02:39:38 <luke-jr> that's like a day of mining
464 2011-01-09 02:39:44 <marioxcc> lol
465 2011-01-09 02:39:47 <theymos> What are you trying to do?
466 2011-01-09 02:40:02 <marioxcc> luke-jr: what I mean is I can send you 1 BTC for you to expertiment for, if you need that
467 2011-01-09 02:40:22 <luke-jr> marioxcc: sure, gimme a few mins to finish this round of debugging
468 2011-01-09 02:40:27 <marioxcc> yeah
469 2011-01-09 02:40:35 <luke-jr> theymos: send non-rounded tx
470 2011-01-09 02:40:43 <luke-jr> theymos: so like 0.01234567 BTC
471 2011-01-09 02:40:52 <marioxcc> yeah
472 2011-01-09 02:41:13 <theymos> luke-jr: Oh. You need to disable the sub-cent automatic fee thing. Search for "CENT" in SelectCoins.
473 2011-01-09 02:41:26 <luke-jr> theymos: I'm not sending sub-cent values though âº
474 2011-01-09 02:41:44 <theymos> The change is probably sub-cent, though.
475 2011-01-09 02:41:57 <luke-jr> oh, I see :/
476 2011-01-09 02:41:59 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
477 2011-01-09 02:42:03 <luke-jr> why can't it Input the exact amount?
478 2011-01-09 02:42:06 HarryS has joined
479 2011-01-09 02:42:06 HarryS has quit (Changing host)
480 2011-01-09 02:42:06 HarryS has joined
481 2011-01-09 02:42:23 <theymos> You can only redeem an entire previous output.
482 2011-01-09 02:42:24 <xelister> in networking terms, what do we need to send to some bitcoin address? distribute "inv" command, and then distribute (on request) "tx" command? http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=network
483 2011-01-09 02:42:49 * xelister actuall -dev question, yey
484 2011-01-09 02:43:17 <theymos> xelister: Right. (After you create the transaction correctly.)
485 2011-01-09 02:43:22 <marioxcc> xelister: the first one in the day, congrats
486 2011-01-09 02:44:34 <xelister> to make the proper "inv" + "tx" commands, what do we need exactly?
487 2011-01-09 02:44:42 <marioxcc> what will happen if you send some coins above the account balance?
488 2011-01-09 02:44:45 <xelister> bitcoin address of recipient is needed
489 2011-01-09 02:44:49 <xelister> bitcoin address of recipient is /given/
490 2011-01-09 02:44:59 <xelister> what else? do we need to find out, like, his pubkey or something?
491 2011-01-09 02:45:28 <xelister> and do we need to know previous blocks (either headers or entire blocks) to make payment (inv+tx) ?
492 2011-01-09 02:46:45 <theymos> xelister: No blocks. You only need the transactions you're redeeming and the hash160 of the address you're sending to (contained in the BC address). Then you need to sign all of this with the public key specified in the transactions you're redeeming.
493 2011-01-09 02:48:17 <xelister> so to send, basically no information needs to be downloaded from network, actually sending can be done without ever downloading from network (assuming I have proper wallet with valid BTCs in it)?
494 2011-01-09 02:48:56 <luke-jr> hmm
495 2011-01-09 02:48:59 <theymos> xelister: Yes, but you can't receive without having at least the block headers.
496 2011-01-09 02:49:02 <luke-jr> so JSON-RPC API sucks
497 2011-01-09 02:49:46 <luke-jr> it's too high-level and the implementation too dumb
498 2011-01-09 02:49:51 <marioxcc> lol
499 2011-01-09 02:49:58 <luke-jr> it's losing BTC for me just because it isn't smart on splitting it without a fee
500 2011-01-09 02:50:07 <alowm> which language are you using?
501 2011-01-09 02:50:08 <marioxcc> yeah
502 2011-01-09 02:50:11 <marioxcc> so we agree in the bitcoin client sucks?
503 2011-01-09 02:50:20 <marioxcc> alowm: the language bitcoin is written in
504 2011-01-09 02:50:21 <luke-jr> not just the client, but the core impl
505 2011-01-09 02:50:28 <marioxcc> what other?
506 2011-01-09 02:50:38 <marioxcc> luke-jr: well, by client I mean the thing in src/
507 2011-01-09 02:50:59 <luke-jr> marioxcc: 1HQuB7hhm8fxCEW3Wy5MdFfXGxqWSZAa6a
508 2011-01-09 02:51:01 <alowm> marioxcc: oh, when luke-jr mentioned an API i assumed he wasn't working with the actual client but rather another language
509 2011-01-09 02:51:14 <alowm> sorry
510 2011-01-09 02:51:33 <luke-jr> alowm: the core 'client' is JSON-RPC
511 2011-01-09 02:51:45 <alowm> gotcha
512 2011-01-09 02:52:06 <luke-jr> so it sounds like I need to do this the hard way
513 2011-01-09 02:52:26 <luke-jr> first, combine multiple old-outputs into a single large output to avoid lame fees
514 2011-01-09 02:52:29 <marioxcc> luke-jr: just sent 1.50 BTC
515 2011-01-09 02:52:31 <luke-jr> then split that large input
516 2011-01-09 02:52:35 <luke-jr> marioxcc: thx
517 2011-01-09 02:52:42 <theymos> luke-jr: In the case of http://blockexplorer.com/t/AKDH4hX3A1 , your send amount left sub-cent change. Bitcoin had no choice but to throw that away. If it hadn't have done that, your transaction would have been stuck in limbo forever.
518 2011-01-09 02:52:47 <marioxcc> you're welcome
519 2011-01-09 02:53:15 <luke-jr> theymos: no, it could have combined the input with more balances first
520 2011-01-09 02:53:30 <luke-jr> theymos: and then split that larger input up into >cent change
521 2011-01-09 02:54:39 <luke-jr> theymos: right?
522 2011-01-09 02:55:23 <theymos> Right. Sub-cent transactions are forbidden, however, and you'll eventually end up with sub-cent amounts when you break 0.01234567 from a whole amount.
523 2011-01-09 02:55:25 CyanDynamo has joined
524 2011-01-09 02:55:47 <luke-jr> theymos: not necessarily
525 2011-01-09 02:55:47 <marioxcc> theymos: why?
526 2011-01-09 02:55:53 <marioxcc> they accumulate
527 2011-01-09 02:56:18 <theymos> They accumulate, but what's the chance of getting the exact amount to complete it?
528 2011-01-09 02:56:34 <marioxcc> theymos: it don't needs to be exact
529 2011-01-09 02:56:39 <marioxcc> is same as slush pool
530 2011-01-09 02:56:46 <marioxcc> the threshold is 0.01
531 2011-01-09 02:57:08 <marioxcc> while it is less than that, it just accumulates
532 2011-01-09 02:57:08 <luke-jr> so long as I actually only spend a minimum of 1 áµTBC, it should be fine in theory
533 2011-01-09 02:57:38 <luke-jr> theymos: likely, if the sub-cent amounts are part of TBC
534 2011-01-09 02:57:39 <marioxcc> also, why are < 0.01 transactions forbidden?
535 2011-01-09 02:57:44 <marioxcc> is that hardcoded in the network?
536 2011-01-09 02:57:48 <marioxcc> i think not
537 2011-01-09 02:58:05 <luke-jr> marioxcc: most block generators merely won't accept the transaction unless you pay a tx fee of 0.01 BTC
538 2011-01-09 02:58:15 <theymos> More intelligent coin selection would be great (manual selection, too), but this is not an easy change by any means.
539 2011-01-09 02:58:19 <luke-jr> marioxcc: which means if some people start to accept them, it's a matter of time
540 2011-01-09 02:58:47 <theymos> Generators will probably never accept all eight decimals of precision.
541 2011-01-09 02:58:55 <luke-jr> theymos: the original core sucks. hopefully it can be replaced with a smarter one âº
542 2011-01-09 02:59:04 <luke-jr> the core API should be more low-level than this
543 2011-01-09 02:59:07 <marioxcc> luke-jr: I see
544 2011-01-09 02:59:16 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: feel free to write your own
545 2011-01-09 02:59:21 <marioxcc> <luke-jr> the core API should be more low-level than this <- how low-level?
546 2011-01-09 02:59:23 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: not trivial
547 2011-01-09 02:59:30 <marioxcc> you mean non-JSON?
548 2011-01-09 02:59:33 <luke-jr> marioxcc: it should allow me to write my own transactions :P
549 2011-01-09 02:59:37 <marioxcc> oh yeah
550 2011-01-09 02:59:48 <marioxcc> we will have to rewrite this
551 2011-01-09 02:59:50 <luke-jr> rather than me give it a # and it tries to guess everything and spend fees w/o my permission
552 2011-01-09 03:00:03 <marioxcc> yeah
553 2011-01-09 03:00:07 <marioxcc> i got it
554 2011-01-09 03:01:49 * luke-jr ponders how to split that 1.5 BTC into 8î§ (142 deci) áµTBC coins
555 2011-01-09 03:02:45 <marioxcc> split?
556 2011-01-09 03:02:49 <luke-jr> yeah
557 2011-01-09 03:02:58 <marioxcc> i don't get it, what do you mean?
558 2011-01-09 03:03:38 <luke-jr> input:1,50000000 + (output:0,01048576) * 142
559 2011-01-09 03:03:54 <luke-jr> right now, I have a single 1.5 BTC coin from you
560 2011-01-09 03:04:36 <marioxcc> so what do you want to do?
561 2011-01-09 03:04:57 <luke-jr> turn it into 142 coins, each 1 áµTBC large
562 2011-01-09 03:05:01 <luke-jr> (last one slightly larger)
563 2011-01-09 03:05:20 <theymos> You can have 142 outputs in a transaction, though this is forbidden by generators.
564 2011-01-09 03:05:30 <luke-jr> theymos: why?
565 2011-01-09 03:05:48 <marioxcc> too big i think
566 2011-01-09 03:05:52 <marioxcc> limit is 500 Kb
567 2011-01-09 03:06:02 <luke-jr> 1000 bytes I think
568 2011-01-09 03:06:06 <theymos> The maximum number of outputs is 2, which is the most Bitcoin will send normally.
569 2011-01-09 03:06:09 <luke-jr> but then I just need multiple tx
570 2011-01-09 03:06:20 <luke-jr> theymos: where is that stupid limit? -.-
571 2011-01-09 03:06:30 <marioxcc> luke-jr: but what do you want it to be "splited"?
572 2011-01-09 03:06:35 <luke-jr> ?
573 2011-01-09 03:06:42 <marioxcc> <luke-jr> turn it into 142 coins, each 1 áµTBC large
574 2011-01-09 03:07:01 <marioxcc> just think you have 142 áµTBC
575 2011-01-09 03:07:08 <theymos> luke-jr: Line 633 of my main.cpp: if (GetSigOpCount() > 2 || nSize < 100)
576 2011-01-09 03:07:17 <luke-jr> marioxcc: experimental :P
577 2011-01-09 03:07:51 <marioxcc> luke-jr: ok, just clarifying: the client just sends what is need on each transaction, you don't have to split anything
578 2011-01-09 03:08:00 <marioxcc> it is done automatically
579 2011-01-09 03:08:12 <luke-jr> marioxcc: no
580 2011-01-09 03:08:25 <luke-jr> the client can only send exact amounts it has received
581 2011-01-09 03:08:43 <luke-jr> to send any other amount, it needs to split
582 2011-01-09 03:08:49 <luke-jr> or combine
583 2011-01-09 03:08:50 <marioxcc> luke-jr: i mean that
584 2011-01-09 03:08:55 <marioxcc> splitting is done automatically
585 2011-01-09 03:09:12 <luke-jr> marioxcc: but not ideally
586 2011-01-09 03:09:15 <luke-jr> hence my lost BTC
587 2011-01-09 03:09:57 <marioxcc> luke-jr: no, they has been lost because the output has been rounded
588 2011-01-09 03:10:10 <marioxcc> not "lost", just a miner operator haves them now
589 2011-01-09 03:10:48 <theymos> It's not really "rounded". When Bitcoin sees that it is about to send a change that is less than 0.01, it throws the amount away instead.
590 2011-01-09 03:11:20 <luke-jr> theymos: my version currently adds the change, then adds a fee â¹
591 2011-01-09 03:11:33 <marioxcc> uh
592 2011-01-09 03:11:47 <marioxcc> luke-jr: any repository set up to see changes?
593 2011-01-09 03:11:58 <luke-jr> marioxcc: not atm, I'll push in a min
594 2011-01-09 03:12:14 <luke-jr> probably reverting that one though
595 2011-01-09 03:13:07 <marioxcc> ok
596 2011-01-09 03:14:06 <sgornick> FWIW: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
597 2011-01-09 03:14:08 <theymos> luke-jr: Why do you add the change first? Doesn't that have the exact same result?
598 2011-01-09 03:14:22 <luke-jr> theymos: no, it's more expensive XD
599 2011-01-09 03:15:02 <sgornick> nanotube, tcatm, theymos (?): ^^ Â Python wins the TIOBE Programming Language [biggest gainer] Award of 2010!
600 2011-01-09 03:18:23 Animeking has quit (Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net)
601 2011-01-09 03:20:29 <luke-jr> ok, I forged a 1 áµTBC transaction with gdb
602 2011-01-09 03:20:35 <luke-jr> let's see if it gets into a block :D
603 2011-01-09 03:20:38 <luke-jr> (no tx fee)
604 2011-01-09 03:21:09 <marioxcc> let's see
605 2011-01-09 03:21:10 <luke-jr> "balance" : 4.80234567,
606 2011-01-09 03:21:16 <luke-jr> something tells me I'll never get that fixed :P
607 2011-01-09 03:21:49 <theymos> Did you modify RPC for more precision? I thought it rounded the balance.
608 2011-01-09 03:22:00 <luke-jr> theymos: it rounded inputs
609 2011-01-09 03:22:07 <marioxcc> i don't undestand why they use Json in the first place
610 2011-01-09 03:22:16 <marioxcc> a simple SMTP-like protocol will do
611 2011-01-09 03:23:05 <marioxcc> SEND 1HF4qGy3FX6JYzz64jexvcZaAJJf6ZRPsy 1
612 2011-01-09 03:23:13 <marioxcc> can it be simpler?
613 2011-01-09 03:23:52 <soultcer> Jsonrpc is a simple RPC, trust me
614 2011-01-09 03:23:54 <soultcer> Ever head of SOAP?
615 2011-01-09 03:24:02 <theymos> I think JSON-RPC is easier to implement for web sites.
616 2011-01-09 03:24:10 <marioxcc> web sites?
617 2011-01-09 03:24:19 <marioxcc> hey, this is a local program
618 2011-01-09 03:24:27 <luke-jr> marioxcc: â¦
619 2011-01-09 03:25:06 <theymos> JSON-RPC was implemented just so that websites like MtGox could function easily. The command-line interface to it was an afterthought.
620 2011-01-09 03:25:11 <luke-jr> bzr branch lp:~luke-jr/+junk/bitcoin-tonal
621 2011-01-09 03:25:27 <marioxcc> do you like GIT?
622 2011-01-09 03:25:33 <luke-jr> shrug
623 2011-01-09 03:25:39 <luke-jr> slightly more than bzr
624 2011-01-09 03:25:47 <luke-jr> but bitcoin official is svn
625 2011-01-09 03:25:50 <luke-jr> and bzr works better with svn
626 2011-01-09 03:26:10 <marioxcc> there is a git svn command
627 2011-01-09 03:26:18 <luke-jr> that's nice, I don't like such
628 2011-01-09 03:26:22 <luke-jr> bzr works with svn transparently
629 2011-01-09 03:26:26 <luke-jr> I don't have to know it's svn
630 2011-01-09 03:26:37 <luke-jr> it's treated the same as any other bzr repo
631 2011-01-09 03:27:04 <marioxcc> oh well, I guess that's why BZR is popular
632 2011-01-09 03:27:12 <luke-jr> âº
633 2011-01-09 03:27:12 <marioxcc> it seems so simple to use
634 2011-01-09 03:27:15 <luke-jr> yeah
635 2011-01-09 03:27:25 <luke-jr> bzr supports basically all the same commands as subversion
636 2011-01-09 03:27:33 <luke-jr> while also supporting more complex use like git
637 2011-01-09 03:27:43 <marioxcc> however, being transparent with an incompatible thing like SVN can't lead to a good end :)
638 2011-01-09 03:27:50 <luke-jr> it's not incompatible
639 2011-01-09 03:28:08 <luke-jr> bzr can pull and push from/to svn like any other branches
640 2011-01-09 03:28:21 <marioxcc> oh, sure, repository as branch
641 2011-01-09 03:28:26 <luke-jr> although admittedly some metadata is lost bzr-side
642 2011-01-09 03:28:26 <marioxcc> I didn't every liked that
643 2011-01-09 03:28:35 <marioxcc> *ever
644 2011-01-09 03:28:37 * luke-jr likes that MUCH better than git's way
645 2011-01-09 03:28:44 <luke-jr> git forces me to have a single working tree â¹
646 2011-01-09 03:28:50 <marioxcc> no, it don't
647 2011-01-09 03:29:06 <marioxcc> also, it is easier that way
648 2011-01-09 03:29:11 <luke-jr> not really
649 2011-01-09 03:29:13 <marioxcc> branches are everyday things in git
650 2011-01-09 03:29:27 <marioxcc> using a single working tree is only more comfortable with proper tools
651 2011-01-09 03:29:57 <marioxcc> you can anyway
652 2011-01-09 03:29:59 <luke-jr> no, because then when you change branches everything needs to be recompiled every time
653 2011-01-09 03:30:04 <marioxcc> clone a local repository
654 2011-01-09 03:30:26 <luke-jr> branches are more pain-free with bzr
655 2011-01-09 03:30:30 <marioxcc> luke-jr: not everything, only what have changed, but that's only true if you switch branches
656 2011-01-09 03:30:35 <luke-jr> I make branches for each and every feature or bugfix
657 2011-01-09 03:30:42 <marioxcc> I do too
658 2011-01-09 03:30:49 <xelister> theymos: ok, and to receive payments, and verify them, I need block headers - so I need to receive inv and then send out getheaders and receive headers?
659 2011-01-09 03:30:58 <marioxcc> and I have no problem really
660 2011-01-09 03:31:29 <marioxcc> still no block, hmm
661 2011-01-09 03:31:50 <xelister> and last, if I want to also generate/mine, then I need receive inv, send out getdata or getblocks and receive block?
662 2011-01-09 03:31:55 <xelister> theymos: ^
663 2011-01-09 03:33:00 <luke-jr> "comment" : "sending 1 \u00E1\u00B5\u0097TBC"
664 2011-01-09 03:33:03 <luke-jr> this is a bug.
665 2011-01-09 03:33:16 <luke-jr> \xE1\xB5\x97 would be correct
666 2011-01-09 03:33:29 <luke-jr> but if it's going to try to decode Unicode, it should do it right! :P
667 2011-01-09 03:33:59 <marioxcc> lol
668 2011-01-09 03:34:04 <luke-jr> \u1D57
669 2011-01-09 03:34:30 * luke-jr wonders if it's being displayed wrong, or encoded onto the network wrong
670 2011-01-09 03:34:36 <luke-jr> or are these comments on the network at all?
671 2011-01-09 03:36:42 <marioxcc> i think they're only supported for IP transactions
672 2011-01-09 03:36:50 <luke-jr> wtf are those
673 2011-01-09 03:37:07 <marioxcc> you can pay to an IP
674 2011-01-09 03:37:27 <marioxcc> see
675 2011-01-09 03:37:31 <marioxcc> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/IP_Transactions
676 2011-01-09 03:38:27 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
677 2011-01-09 03:39:39 <marioxcc> i find this function useless, but well
678 2011-01-09 03:40:27 <marioxcc> luke-jr: i can't clone it
679 2011-01-09 03:40:28 <marioxcc> no ssh acess
680 2011-01-09 03:40:33 <luke-jr> â¦
681 2011-01-09 03:40:36 <luke-jr> no ssh needed
682 2011-01-09 03:41:11 <marioxcc> marioxcc@Q6600-0:~/ppd$ bzr branch lp:~luke-jr/+junk/bitcoin-tonal
683 2011-01-09 03:41:12 <marioxcc> Setting ssh/sftp usernames for launchpad.net.
684 2011-01-09 03:41:12 <marioxcc> Permission denied (publickey).
685 2011-01-09 03:41:12 <marioxcc> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
686 2011-01-09 03:41:28 <theymos> xelister: Additional as-yet-unimplemented network stuff is necessary to use just headers all the time. Right now you can download headers for all blocks that you're sure you didn't get a payment in, and then you have to download full blocks after that. You can discard the blocks after processing them into Merkle trees. Getting headers is just getheaders+headers. Getting blocks is getblocks+inv+block.
687 2011-01-09 03:41:32 <luke-jr> marioxcc: did you misconfigure bzr?
688 2011-01-09 03:41:46 <marioxcc> no that i remember of
689 2011-01-09 03:42:01 <luke-jr> bzr launchpad-login
690 2011-01-09 03:42:19 <marioxcc> marioxcc
691 2011-01-09 03:42:23 <marioxcc> i used to have an account
692 2011-01-09 03:42:30 <luke-jr> used to?
693 2011-01-09 03:42:42 <marioxcc> probably it is delete dnow
694 2011-01-09 03:42:48 <marioxcc> why?
695 2011-01-09 03:42:50 <xelister> theymos: is it documented more then on that page http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=network
696 2011-01-09 03:42:54 <marioxcc> isn't there anonymous access?
697 2011-01-09 03:43:05 <luke-jr> if you want to deconfigure it, delete hte launchpad_username line from ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
698 2011-01-09 03:43:14 <luke-jr> if it's configured w/ a username it tries to use it
699 2011-01-09 03:43:23 <marioxcc> ok
700 2011-01-09 03:43:31 <marioxcc> dumb
701 2011-01-09 03:43:34 <marioxcc> well, not it works
702 2011-01-09 03:43:35 ApertureScience has joined
703 2011-01-09 03:44:17 <luke-jr> marioxcc: qmake && nice make && ./bitcoind
704 2011-01-09 03:44:19 <theymos> xelister: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification tries to go into more detail, but it has mostly the same info.
705 2011-01-09 03:44:24 <marioxcc> ok, i don't knwo how to handle this really
706 2011-01-09 03:44:26 <luke-jr> (make sure you stop old one first, if you actually want to run it)
707 2011-01-09 03:44:29 <marioxcc> (bazaar)
708 2011-01-09 03:44:34 <luke-jr> ?
709 2011-01-09 03:44:48 <marioxcc> i want to start something like gitk
710 2011-01-09 03:44:49 <luke-jr> if it works, you have a dir named bitcoin-tonal
711 2011-01-09 03:44:53 <marioxcc> or magit
712 2011-01-09 03:44:57 <marioxcc> yes, I have it
713 2011-01-09 03:44:59 <luke-jr> cd there, qmake and make
714 2011-01-09 03:46:18 <luke-jr> bzr log | less
715 2011-01-09 03:46:32 <luke-jr> bzr diff -c <revno> | less
716 2011-01-09 03:46:38 <marioxcc> thanks for your help, but that's far from the gitk functionality
717 2011-01-09 03:47:01 <marioxcc> I will read about bazaar later, thanks
718 2011-01-09 03:47:10 <marioxcc> the important thing is i have the code
719 2011-01-09 03:47:14 <luke-jr> ?
720 2011-01-09 03:47:20 <luke-jr> what functionality are you looking for?
721 2011-01-09 03:47:31 <marioxcc> haven't you used gitk?
722 2011-01-09 03:47:34 <luke-jr> no
723 2011-01-09 03:47:35 <marioxcc> i'm looking for that
724 2011-01-09 03:47:44 <marioxcc> it shows a graph of revisions
725 2011-01-09 03:47:47 <luke-jr> oh
726 2011-01-09 03:47:51 <luke-jr> qbzr does that
727 2011-01-09 03:47:53 <marioxcc> and you can click them
728 2011-01-09 03:47:54 <marioxcc> then get the diff
729 2011-01-09 03:48:25 <marioxcc> let's see
730 2011-01-09 03:48:46 <marioxcc> hmm, i don't have it installed
731 2011-01-09 03:48:59 <marioxcc> nevermind, i don't want to bother you with my noob bazaar question
732 2011-01-09 03:49:02 <marioxcc> *questions
733 2011-01-09 03:49:09 <luke-jr> I usually just use CLI
734 2011-01-09 03:49:41 <marioxcc> i'm more used to magit
735 2011-01-09 03:49:53 <marioxcc> it has a gitk-like log
736 2011-01-09 03:49:56 <luke-jr> if you install qbzr, the command to see that stuff is: bzr qlog
737 2011-01-09 03:50:15 <marioxcc> hmm, maybe later
738 2011-01-09 03:50:21 <marioxcc> it is a bit late just now
739 2011-01-09 03:50:27 <marioxcc> (today)
740 2011-01-09 03:50:45 <marioxcc> oh, i'm talking with incoherency
741 2011-01-09 03:50:46 <marioxcc> lol
742 2011-01-09 03:50:55 <marioxcc> i need a rest
743 2011-01-09 03:50:58 marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK
744 2011-01-09 03:55:36 marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc
745 2011-01-09 03:55:37 <marioxcc> i'm back
746 2011-01-09 03:57:04 <luke-jr> wtf
747 2011-01-09 03:57:06 <luke-jr> some rest
748 2011-01-09 03:58:31 <marioxcc> still better than nothing :)
749 2011-01-09 04:00:06 zooko has joined
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751 2011-01-09 04:06:07 alowm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
752 2011-01-09 04:16:29 epicurus has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
753 2011-01-09 04:28:41 marioxcc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
754 2011-01-09 04:35:51 <luke-jr> w00t
755 2011-01-09 04:35:53 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/487c2edc5787964be0656b40c1efb5227dc59972608c086d882125e404385653
756 2011-01-09 04:43:49 <nanotube> luke-jr: there's a bitcoin repo on github...
757 2011-01-09 04:43:58 <nanotube> you'd have an easier time of it maybe if you just cloned that...
758 2011-01-09 04:49:51 nadio has joined
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760 2011-01-09 04:57:50 <luke-jr> nanotube: bzr works fine
761 2011-01-09 04:59:18 <nanotube> luke-jr: i'm sure it does. you just said that you liked git better, and only went with bzr because of the svn interconnect... so i was giving you an option to use git where you don't need the svn
762 2011-01-09 04:59:36 <nanotube> but yes, bzr is a fine scm. :)
763 2011-01-09 04:59:39 mahadri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
764 2011-01-09 05:06:39 fabianhjr has joined
765 2011-01-09 05:06:44 <fabianhjr> Hi, sup?
766 2011-01-09 05:07:42 <fabianhjr> slush: congratulations 15 GHashes/sec! Now we generate each hour or less. :)
767 2011-01-09 05:07:44 <lfm> hi
768 2011-01-09 05:08:01 <Diablo-D3> we're not past art yet
769 2011-01-09 05:08:41 <fabianhjr> noagendamarket: do you own the bitcoinmedia twitter account?
770 2011-01-09 05:09:27 <noagendamarket> fabianhjr yes
771 2011-01-09 05:09:28 <nanotube> ;;bc,poolstats
772 2011-01-09 05:09:29 <gribble> {"hashes_ps": 13688473472, "shares": 29248, "active_workers": 264, "round_duration": "2:32:57", "round_started": "2011-01-09 02:32:57", "getwork_ps": 81}
773 2011-01-09 05:09:40 <nanotube> not quite 15... but nice :)
774 2011-01-09 05:10:24 <fabianhjr> noagendamarket: you might want to disable the crawler/spider/bot. It is catching some bad links such as warez and other undesirable stuff. :/
775 2011-01-09 05:11:01 <noagendamarket> hmm I just use twitterfeed and google news
776 2011-01-09 05:15:38 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
777 2011-01-09 05:19:00 <fabianhjr> Good night. D: my mother is angry again.
778 2011-01-09 05:19:02 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
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786 2011-01-09 05:52:37 <sgornick> Any guess why this transaction wouldn't appear in block explorer hours later? 1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt 2 BTCs sent to the address given for EFF donate page, using MyBitcoin. Email confirmation: http://pastebin.com/U5hwEFYg
787 2011-01-09 05:54:09 ArtForz has joined
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798 2011-01-09 06:21:59 <nanotube> sgornick: hmm, no idea. send them an email and ask. :)
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813 2011-01-09 07:23:43 <newsham> why are some protocol timestamp fields 32bits and some 64bits?
814 2011-01-09 07:23:51 <newsham> and what happens in 2038? :)
815 2011-01-09 07:26:10 <kartofeln> is there a version field in the protocol?
816 2011-01-09 07:26:24 TheAncientGoat has joined
817 2011-01-09 07:32:31 <newsham> there is
818 2011-01-09 07:32:52 <newsham> hmm. does the std bitcoin client let you include messages in transactions?
819 2011-01-09 07:33:03 <tcatm> no
820 2011-01-09 07:33:23 <newsham> the protocol itself allows the possibility
821 2011-01-09 07:33:28 <newsham> it would be a useful feature.
822 2011-01-09 07:33:53 <tcatm> the address is the message
823 2011-01-09 07:34:01 <freetx> I believe messages are only supported on 'ip transactions'
824 2011-01-09 07:34:26 <newsham> "It's possible to add arbitrary data to any transaction by just adding some data along with OP_DROP (or ommitting OP_DROP and allowing the value to sit on the stack unused)."
825 2011-01-09 07:34:31 <Diablo-D3> yes, its only on ip transactions
826 2011-01-09 07:34:35 <Diablo-D3> and PLEASE dont use ip transactions
827 2011-01-09 07:34:53 <Diablo-D3> its something that should have never been included in thei protocol
828 2011-01-09 07:35:00 <freetx> moreover, all messages would be completely public
829 2011-01-09 07:35:08 <Diablo-D3> btw, all messages in the chain are public
830 2011-01-09 07:35:25 <kartofeln> I'm not even how one *would* use IP transaction in a not-completely-contrived scenario.
831 2011-01-09 07:35:57 <Diablo-D3> send 50btc to newegg.com
832 2011-01-09 07:35:57 <Diablo-D3> ding.
833 2011-01-09 07:36:33 <newsham> public messages could be very useful.
834 2011-01-09 07:36:46 <Diablo-D3> https://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/6ae56459-2456-4b08-9a05-c5ad49698491.jpg
835 2011-01-09 07:36:48 <kartofeln> ah.. sounds like it would benefit from being replaced by a dns extension that'd return a bitcoin address for a specific record type.
836 2011-01-09 07:37:47 <Diablo-D3> yup
837 2011-01-09 07:37:52 <Diablo-D3> it'd be much better
838 2011-01-09 07:38:04 <newsham> for example, if you sent a specific message to me with payment, and i sent a 0.01btc payment in return that said "ack transaction number", it would be on public record that the two of use agreed to some message with some payment.
839 2011-01-09 07:38:12 <newsham> that is a useful feature in some situations
840 2011-01-09 07:38:20 <newsham> s/use/us/
841 2011-01-09 07:39:06 <freetx> but couldn't that be done outside the protocol....just post that series on your website
842 2011-01-09 07:39:25 <kartofeln> if it's in the block chain, it's pretty much cast in stone though.
843 2011-01-09 07:39:27 <newsham> are there any open source bitcoin implementations in language other than C/C++?
844 2011-01-09 07:39:52 <newsham> freetxt: it wouldnt be bound to the payment, nor would it be guaranteed by the cpu power behind the hash chain.
845 2011-01-09 07:40:00 <kartofeln> could be good for contracts.. sign your message with pgp when you include it, other party signs it too, provides payment.
846 2011-01-09 07:40:03 <newsham> also the protocol already supports the ability.. its just not in the client
847 2011-01-09 07:40:33 <freetx> good point, but the side effects of messages is going to be a huge increase in database size
848 2011-01-09 07:40:58 <kartofeln> trim the merkle tree?
849 2011-01-09 07:41:02 <newsham> 0.01 exchanges could parasitically use the bitcoin block chain for publishing information w/ good guarantees
850 2011-01-09 07:41:03 <kartofeln> when is that supposed to happen anhow?
851 2011-01-09 07:41:20 <newsham> freetx: right, but i can do that already... possible attack point on btc?
852 2011-01-09 07:41:26 <newsham> tons of small tx's with huge scripts...
853 2011-01-09 07:42:23 <newsham> basically the block chain is a unspoofable way to publish information bound to a time (or at least an ordering).
854 2011-01-09 07:42:38 <newsham> and its used for one purpose (eliminate double spending0 but could easily be hijacked for other uses
855 2011-01-09 07:45:20 <freetx> yes, it would eventually devolve into people sending .01 btc back and forth, using bitcoin protocol as unspoofable chat method
856 2011-01-09 07:45:50 <newsham> so lets do it! ;-)
857 2011-01-09 07:46:20 <newsham> whats the purpose for a powerful scripting engine in the protocol, btw?
858 2011-01-09 07:46:29 * kartofeln seconds the question.
859 2011-01-09 07:47:56 <newsham> is that to allow for transaction fees ?
860 2011-01-09 07:50:12 <newsham> "bit-twitter"? :)
861 2011-01-09 07:51:06 <freetx> Ha. at least people would need to pay to announce what they had for breakfast to the rest of the non-interested world
862 2011-01-09 07:51:36 <kartofeln> they could be paying themselves :-/
863 2011-01-09 07:52:32 <freetx> yes, in which case BTC would grind to a halt via American Idol fans.
864 2011-01-09 07:52:47 <newsham> is there a separate test bitcoin network? or is the same infrastructure used for both test and non-test stuff?
865 2011-01-09 07:53:04 <kartofeln> would it? do we have an idea of the scale of tx/seq BTC could handle?
866 2011-01-09 07:53:16 <kartofeln> probably as a function of the current active node count.
867 2011-01-09 07:53:22 <newsham> is there a current limit to number of TX's per block? if so, there's a natural rate limit to bittwitter
868 2011-01-09 07:53:29 <newsham> (and a DoS attack I guess)
869 2011-01-09 07:53:51 <newsham> i guess since the net is based on cpu voting, the majority of clients could just be reprogrammed to reject the messages
870 2011-01-09 07:54:11 <kartofeln> but what if they didn't? how much would be too much?
871 2011-01-09 07:54:18 <newsham> also TX fees could mitigate
872 2011-01-09 07:54:47 <newsham> if there's spamming of TXs, you could just reject messages that didnt have enough tx fee
873 2011-01-09 07:55:00 <newsham> at soem point spamming would be too expensive
874 2011-01-09 07:55:01 <kartofeln> newsham: there's a -testnet switch on the bitcoin client that may or may not enable a separate test bitcoin network.
875 2011-01-09 07:55:12 <kartofeln> I think it does, but I'm not positive.
876 2011-01-09 07:55:22 <newsham> kart: ahh. do you knwo if it uses the same pool of hosts or if it uses a diff one?
877 2011-01-09 07:55:40 <kartofeln> I think you end up with a pool of whoever else started their clients with -testnet.
878 2011-01-09 07:56:01 <kartofeln> aka a tiny tiny pool, in all likelihood.
879 2011-01-09 07:56:21 <kartofeln> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=363.0
880 2011-01-09 07:56:24 <bitbot> TEST network, for experimental development and hacking
881 2011-01-09 07:58:24 <kartofeln> hmm. I think I'm going to go generate a million bitcoins on the test network. that'll sooth my nerves.
882 2011-01-09 07:58:41 <newsham> hmmm soon test net will be the new bittwitter! :)
883 2011-01-09 08:20:41 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
884 2011-01-09 08:28:37 <xelister> we can have few blocks that are number 2020 at same time?
885 2011-01-09 08:28:51 <xelister> and then each block is identified by hash (what hash exactly?)
886 2011-01-09 08:29:09 <xelister> and after some time we make decission which blocks-chain is the longest and throw out other blocks?
887 2011-01-09 08:34:12 ThomasV has joined
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889 2011-01-09 08:37:00 <samfisher> Hi. Is someone in here playing with forex, stock exchanges etc?
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899 2011-01-09 09:56:00 <kartofeln> darn. my dreams of TEST BTC riches are rapidly vanishing. apparently 1 measly Mhash/s isn't enough to compete on it.
900 2011-01-09 09:59:17 nathan7 has left ()
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902 2011-01-09 09:59:39 <nathan7> nameless|, nanotube: op gribble and me?
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934 2011-01-09 13:40:47 * nathan7 pats nameless|
935 2011-01-09 13:40:48 nathan7 has left ()
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937 2011-01-09 13:40:53 <nathan7> :D
938 2011-01-09 13:42:06 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I don't like being patted
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941 2011-01-09 13:42:20 akem has joined
942 2011-01-09 13:42:23 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|>:D
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945 2011-01-09 14:07:26 <TD> lol
946 2011-01-09 14:07:28 <TD> i love russia today
947 2011-01-09 14:07:32 <TD> "aflockalypse now"
948 2011-01-09 14:10:58 <TheAncientGoat> TD: Oh man, now we have Russia, Cuba, China, North Korea and Iran all using linux... Somehow, not really all that good publicity
949 2011-01-09 14:11:13 <TD> everyone uses linux
950 2011-01-09 14:11:17 <TD> yet noone uses it
951 2011-01-09 14:11:18 <TD> paradox
952 2011-01-09 14:12:07 samfisher has joined
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956 2011-01-09 14:13:33 <sipa> how do you mean nobody uses it?
957 2011-01-09 14:16:56 <TD> on the desktop
958 2011-01-09 14:17:51 * sipa does
959 2011-01-09 14:18:15 <ArtForz> plenty people do
960 2011-01-09 14:18:50 * nathan7 pats nameless|
961 2011-01-09 14:19:15 <nathan7> Does my lappy count? =p
962 2011-01-09 14:19:22 <nathan7> (okay, all my other boxen run it too)
963 2011-01-09 14:19:35 <TD> heh
964 2011-01-09 14:20:45 <ArtForz> I use windows boxes for gaming, and thats pretty much it
965 2011-01-09 14:20:53 <sipa> same
966 2011-01-09 14:21:39 <TD> yeah i meant ~nobody, in a statistical sense. i use desktop linux at work.
967 2011-01-09 14:21:50 <TD> and yet everyone relies on services that are built on linux
968 2011-01-09 14:21:59 <ArtForz> the inverse of nobody? ;)
969 2011-01-09 14:22:57 <ArtForz> yep, I'm also seeing more linux in kiosk applications
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974 2011-01-09 15:00:01 <T_X> Diablo-D3: just to let you know, debian has now added the 260 nvidia driver packages for i386 as well (and not only amd64), so I upgraded from version 256 now. and after doing a "echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/bindv6only", everything works now for the first time :)
975 2011-01-09 15:01:06 <T_X> in fact, with m0mchil's miner, I had 100% cpu usage on one core and about 1.8Mhash/s. with your miner I have ~4.5Mhash/s now and about 50% cpu usage on average on one core (somtimes only 30%, somtimes 100%)
976 2011-01-09 15:01:24 <T_X> an X is lagging as hell :)
977 2011-01-09 15:01:56 <ArtForz> sounds like mining alright ;)
978 2011-01-09 15:02:04 <T_X> hehe, yep :)
979 2011-01-09 15:03:17 <T_X> didn't expect to be able to more than double the hash rate and getting to 4.5Mhash/s with that stupid nvidia 8600M GT
980 2011-01-09 15:03:37 <T_X> :)
981 2011-01-09 15:04:00 <ArtForz> thats not too bad
982 2011-01-09 15:04:51 <T_X> (ok, still not comparable with those high end cards, but ok). I'd be interested in getting the Mhash/s / Watt value, but don't have the measurement thingy here right now
983 2011-01-09 15:04:54 <ArtForz> my spreadsheet says 4.58Mh/s
984 2011-01-09 15:05:10 <ArtForz> so getting 4.5 is quite decent
985 2011-01-09 15:05:13 <T_X> ArtForz: ah, the one in the wiki?
986 2011-01-09 15:05:30 <ArtForz> yep
987 2011-01-09 15:05:32 <T_X> the last time I looked at that the 8600M GT was not included
988 2011-01-09 15:05:36 <ArtForz> well, it's what the wiki numbers are from
989 2011-01-09 15:06:31 <ArtForz> wikipedia says 20W for that 8600M GT
990 2011-01-09 15:06:52 <ArtForz> so... about 0.23 Mh/W
991 2011-01-09 15:06:54 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
992 2011-01-09 15:07:19 <ArtForz> not bad for nvidia, thats on par with a GTX580
993 2011-01-09 15:07:49 <ArtForz> and about 1/8 of a HD5970
994 2011-01-09 15:08:39 <ArtForz> and yes, 1/8, as in, a 5970 does 8x the hashes per kWh :/
995 2011-01-09 15:15:44 acous has joined
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998 2011-01-09 15:16:45 <T_X> ArtForz: hmm, which spreadsheet are you refering to? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison, there's still no 8600M GT, and also no value of 4.58Mhash/s
999 2011-01-09 15:17:29 <ArtForz> that data is based on a oo calc spreadsheet I'm keeping
1000 2011-01-09 15:18:01 epicurus has joined
1001 2011-01-09 15:19:05 <T_X> ah, ok, so the current version of your spreadsheet is not public?
1002 2011-01-09 15:19:23 <ArtForz> nope
1003 2011-01-09 15:19:29 <ArtForz> easy enough toi replicate though
1004 2011-01-09 15:21:53 <ArtForz> 6640 clocks/alu/hash is a good estimate for nvidia and ati 4xxx, 4330 clocks/alu/hash for 5xxx
1005 2011-01-09 15:23:06 <ArtForz> so 8600M GT has 32 ALUs @ 950MHz; 32 * 950M / 6640 = ~ 4.58M
1006 2011-01-09 15:24:59 <Diablo-D3> [09:56:25] <T_X> Diablo-D3: just to let you know, debian has now added the 260 nvidia driver packages for i386 as well (and not only amd64), so I upgraded from version 256 now. and after doing a "echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/bindv6only", everything works now for the first time :)
1007 2011-01-09 15:25:13 <Diablo-D3> that bindv6only thing is basically needed for all java apps that use the network on broken javas
1008 2011-01-09 15:25:22 <T_X> yes, I know
1009 2011-01-09 15:25:36 <ArtForz> the 6640 / 4330 ops/hash numbers are pretty much just made up to agree with the real world
1010 2011-01-09 15:25:39 <T_X> I have to do the same for eclipse for instance
1011 2011-01-09 15:25:53 <Diablo-D3> T_X: HOWEVER
1012 2011-01-09 15:26:00 <Diablo-D3> I wasnt aware java still needed that
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1029 2011-01-09 16:47:36 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1030 2011-01-09 16:47:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 101802 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 1013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17524.34597400
1031 2011-01-09 16:47:44 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 580000
1032 2011-01-09 16:47:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 580000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 day, 9 hours, 32 minutes, and 38 seconds
1033 2011-01-09 16:52:23 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,help calc
1034 2011-01-09 16:52:24 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
1035 2011-01-09 16:52:32 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 580000 17524
1036 2011-01-09 16:52:33 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
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1043 2011-01-09 17:26:38 <nanotube> UukGoblin: whatcha trying to do there?
1044 2011-01-09 17:27:13 acous is now known as MichaelJFox
1045 2011-01-09 17:28:05 MichaelJFox is now known as acous
1046 2011-01-09 17:28:20 <ArtForz> avg time/block at given difficulty and hashrate I guess
1047 2011-01-09 17:28:32 <ArtForz> which kinda would a cool feature
1048 2011-01-09 17:29:15 <UukGoblin> yup, exactly that
1049 2011-01-09 17:32:08 <ArtForz> I think I a word there
1050 2011-01-09 17:35:11 <newsham> you definitely
1051 2011-01-09 17:35:26 <newsham> can i buy a vowel?
1052 2011-01-09 17:36:10 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1053 2011-01-09 17:37:00 <ArtForz> more importantly, can u?
1054 2011-01-09 17:37:15 <nanotube> haha
1055 2011-01-09 17:37:23 <nanotube> UukGoblin: well, that can be arranged...
1056 2011-01-09 17:37:31 zooko has joined
1057 2011-01-09 17:38:38 <UukGoblin> :-)
1058 2011-01-09 17:39:30 <nanotube> presenting, bc,calcd :)
1059 2011-01-09 17:39:45 <nanotube> ;;bc,calcd 1000 1
1060 2011-01-09 17:39:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 1 hour, 11 minutes, and 34 seconds
1061 2011-01-09 17:39:54 <ArtForz> cool
1062 2011-01-09 17:40:21 * nanotube goes to edit the gribble wiki page...
1063 2011-01-09 17:41:00 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 99500 1
1064 2011-01-09 17:41:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 99500 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 43 seconds
1065 2011-01-09 17:41:47 <nanotube> heh
1066 2011-01-09 17:41:51 Phoebus has joined
1067 2011-01-09 17:44:41 <sipa> that's right, i find a share for slush's pool every minute :)
1068 2011-01-09 17:46:10 <sgornick> ;;view
1069 2011-01-09 17:46:10 <gribble> #265 Fri Jan 7 08:29:56 2011 unaffiliated/sgornick SELL 100.0 BTC @ 0.4 PPUSD (No trust needed. Any amount up to 100 BTC.)
1070 2011-01-09 17:46:11 <gribble> #273 Sat Jan 8 15:34:30 2011 unaffiliated/sgornick BUY 3.125 BTC @ 1.0 DWUSD (Offer to buy is based on current bid reported by results of ;;bc,mtgox. For those taking advantage of @DwollaX promo.)
1071 2011-01-09 17:46:36 <nanotube> sipa: lucky you. :P hehe
1072 2011-01-09 17:50:53 <kiba> MT`AwAy: answer my interview question, damn it
1073 2011-01-09 17:53:21 <newsham> whats dwusd?
1074 2011-01-09 17:53:32 genjix has joined
1075 2011-01-09 17:57:25 <newsham> sipa: how many machines? how many gfx cards? whats your electric bill like?
1076 2011-01-09 17:57:50 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1077 2011-01-09 17:58:12 <sipa> newsham: one 4870 OC'd to 820MHz
1078 2011-01-09 17:58:26 <ArtForz> 99.5MHps isn't exactly much
1079 2011-01-09 17:59:02 <newsham> *shrug* my gpu gets me 3.5Mhps. my cpu pkg (4 threads) gets me another 3Mhps.
1080 2011-01-09 17:59:09 <ArtForz> a 5770 is ~155Mhps
1081 2011-01-09 17:59:09 <sipa> nvidia?
1082 2011-01-09 17:59:25 <ArtForz> a 5970 ~530
1083 2011-01-09 17:59:38 <ArtForz> 5770 is like a $100 gpu
1084 2011-01-09 17:59:42 <newsham> 100Mhps sounds like a lot in comparison :)
1085 2011-01-09 18:00:20 <newsham> i gotta figure out a way to make btc the old fashioned way
1086 2011-01-09 18:00:35 <sgornick> newsham: SOrry, I did that ;;view in the wrong room. As far as your question .., DWUSD is Dwolla https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Dwolla competitor to paypal, ACH only. Used periodically in #bitcoin-otc.
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1096 2011-01-09 18:18:54 <luke-jr> sgornick: ACH isn't a competitor to PayPal
1097 2011-01-09 18:20:56 <sgornick> luke-jr: > Dwolla, a competitor to paypal, [but uses] ACH only [and not credit card like PayPal does].
1098 2011-01-09 18:21:03 marioxcc has joined
1099 2011-01-09 18:21:13 <luke-jr> sgornick: in other words, not a competitor to PayPal
1100 2011-01-09 18:21:18 <luke-jr> nobody uses ACH :P
1101 2011-01-09 18:21:30 <sgornick> Dwolla is a competitor to paypal.
1102 2011-01-09 18:22:19 <sgornick> luke-jr: so when you add funds to your paypal using Instant Transfer from a linked checking account, ... how do those funds get there?
1103 2011-01-09 18:23:34 <luke-jr> sgornick: no idea, does anyone do that?
1104 2011-01-09 18:23:40 <luke-jr> afaik everyone uses credit card
1105 2011-01-09 18:24:53 <luke-jr> anyone know why "sendfrom" command doesn't work?
1106 2011-01-09 18:25:46 <sgornick> luke-jr: ya, many (most ?) transactions are funded through bank ACH.
1107 2011-01-09 18:32:03 ThomasV has joined
1108 2011-01-09 18:32:58 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,calc 83000
1109 2011-01-09 18:33:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 83000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 week, 2 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 16 seconds
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1112 2011-01-09 18:44:26 <afed> ;;bc,calc 900000
1113 2011-01-09 18:44:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 900000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 21 hours, 37 minutes, and 2 seconds
1114 2011-01-09 18:44:44 <afed> ;;bc,calc 1500000
1115 2011-01-09 18:44:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 12 hours, 58 minutes, and 13 seconds
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1117 2011-01-09 18:54:08 <brocktice> bc,stats
1118 2011-01-09 18:54:12 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
1119 2011-01-09 18:54:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 101817 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 998 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 11 hours, 14 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17574.25449903
1120 2011-01-09 18:54:37 <brocktice> I forget, who runs BBE?
1121 2011-01-09 18:54:46 CyanDynamo1 has joined
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1124 2011-01-09 19:03:55 <tcatm> brocktice: theymos
1125 2011-01-09 19:04:02 <brocktice> tcatm: thanks
1126 2011-01-09 19:04:21 <brocktice> I'm trying to figure out how to add its search function to YubNub
1127 2011-01-09 19:04:29 <brocktice> but it looks like he's using POST instead of GET
1128 2011-01-09 19:05:04 <tcatm> It's probably easy to change
1129 2011-01-09 19:06:06 <tcatm> brocktice: have you tried my SSL enabled js-remote?
1130 2011-01-09 19:06:11 <brocktice> tcatm: not yet
1131 2011-01-09 19:06:17 <brocktice> not much time to myself on the weekends
1132 2011-01-09 19:06:29 <brocktice> right now doing emergency work stuff during older child's nap
1133 2011-01-09 19:07:01 <brocktice> that's more involved b/c I have to set up a bitcoind instance to try it with etc
1134 2011-01-09 19:07:06 <brocktice> will get to it early this week
1135 2011-01-09 19:07:38 <tcatm> okay
1136 2011-01-09 19:08:50 <brocktice> nice, I see you have instructions though
1137 2011-01-09 19:10:01 <tcatm> Yep, but I noticed today that it only works with > 0.3.19
1138 2011-01-09 19:10:27 <brocktice> oh, good to know
1139 2011-01-09 19:10:32 <brocktice> I'm still using 0.3.18 I think
1140 2011-01-09 19:17:45 <tcatm> Mhm the accounts behave strange
1141 2011-01-09 19:19:54 Myckel has joined
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1143 2011-01-09 19:19:55 Myckel has joined
1144 2011-01-09 19:20:29 <brocktice> tcatm: you mean >= 0.3.19 right?
1145 2011-01-09 19:20:42 <tcatm> no, I mean more recent than official binary
1146 2011-01-09 19:20:50 <brocktice> oh
1147 2011-01-09 19:21:01 <tcatm> a few needed RPC commands are still only in git
1148 2011-01-09 19:21:05 <brocktice> I'll have to update my SVN then
1149 2011-01-09 19:21:10 <brocktice> oh should I be using gavin's git now inestead?
1150 2011-01-09 19:21:48 <tcatm> http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin will work
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1164 2011-01-09 19:59:32 gavinandresen has joined
1165 2011-01-09 20:02:33 <tcatm> hey gavin
1166 2011-01-09 20:03:19 <gavinandresen> hey tcatm
1167 2011-01-09 20:04:25 <tcatm> Did I already ask you why sum(accounts) != server balance?
1168 2011-01-09 20:04:57 <gavinandresen> Nope. If it really does, then there's a bug. sum(listaccounts) should always equal getbalance
1169 2011-01-09 20:05:15 <gavinandresen> (... just don't forget the "" account)
1170 2011-01-09 20:05:36 <ThomasV> perhaps it's doing fractional reserve accounting ?
1171 2011-01-09 20:05:38 <edcba> maybe rounding at display ?
1172 2011-01-09 20:06:09 <gavinandresen> edcba: that'
1173 2011-01-09 20:06:17 <gavinandresen> edcba: that's a good hypothesis....
1174 2011-01-09 20:06:38 <gavinandresen> edcba: I didn't test sub-0.01-cent transactions.
1175 2011-01-09 20:06:44 james_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1176 2011-01-09 20:06:57 james_ has joined
1177 2011-01-09 20:07:11 <gavinandresen> (but all the internal accounting should be correct, the rounding is just done at input/output time)
1178 2011-01-09 20:07:28 RazielZ has quit ()
1179 2011-01-09 20:07:37 <tcatm> gavinandresen: I have a testnet wallet with server balance = 850 and sum(listaccounts) = 853
1180 2011-01-09 20:07:42 <gavinandresen> tcatm: can you throw up a pastebin with the output of listaccounts ?
1181 2011-01-09 20:08:14 <tcatm> http://pastebin.com/evGiRVw2
1182 2011-01-09 20:08:36 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ... and listtransactions '*' 0 9999 (if I'm remembering the args to listtransactions correctly)
1183 2011-01-09 20:09:25 <tcatm> Oh, * is a special account?
1184 2011-01-09 20:09:44 <gavinandresen> tcatm: '*' means all accounts.
1185 2011-01-09 20:10:17 <tcatm> http://pastebin.com/wxCnw5SF
1186 2011-01-09 20:17:03 <gavinandresen> Weird-- did you do anything with the wallet outside bitcoin (e.g. change account names using python?) And can you send me the wallet.dat ?
1187 2011-01-09 20:19:52 james__ has joined
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1189 2011-01-09 20:20:11 <tcatm> no, only used bitcoin to access it
1190 2011-01-09 20:20:49 <tcatm> btw, I have a second testnet wallet where the serverbalance is 0 and sum(accounts) = -0.40
1191 2011-01-09 20:21:17 * nanotube senses trouble in account-land.
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1205 2011-01-09 21:18:33 <nelisky> hey guys
1206 2011-01-09 21:18:50 james_ has joined
1207 2011-01-09 21:19:20 <nelisky> I have a linux bitcoind with all the blocks downloaded... if I swap the wallet.dat file, it doesn't appear to parse the existing blocks against the new wallet
1208 2011-01-09 21:19:38 james__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1209 2011-01-09 21:19:47 <nelisky> leaving me with 0 balance, even though there is one deposit in one of the (already in blkindex) blocks
1210 2011-01-09 21:20:03 <nelisky> is this normal, and if so is there a way to force the re-parsing?
1211 2011-01-09 21:20:14 <nelisky> without having to download all the blocks again, of course
1212 2011-01-09 21:21:37 <sipa> did you restart bitcoind?
1213 2011-01-09 21:22:25 <nelisky> sure
1214 2011-01-09 21:22:32 <nelisky> stop, cp wallet, start
1215 2011-01-09 21:22:57 <nelisky> listreceivedbyaddress 0 true shows the address
1216 2011-01-09 21:23:03 <sipa> hmm, it worked here
1217 2011-01-09 21:23:05 <nelisky> so the wallet file should be good
1218 2011-01-09 21:23:39 <nelisky> block explorer shows the transaction
1219 2011-01-09 21:23:42 <ArtForz> yeah
1220 2011-01-09 21:23:49 <ArtForz> yeah, iirc it's not picking up transactions from already downloaded blocks
1221 2011-01-09 21:24:26 <nelisky> so my option is re-download everything...
1222 2011-01-09 21:24:27 <nelisky> darn
1223 2011-01-09 21:24:40 <ArtForz> iirc theres a patch so you dont have to re-dl blocks
1224 2011-01-09 21:24:41 <nelisky> I need to keep copies of blk* at several time points
1225 2011-01-09 21:25:03 <nelisky> ArtForz: thanks, I'll look up the forum, I do remember reading about it
1226 2011-01-09 21:25:35 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
1227 2011-01-09 21:25:38 Slix` has joined
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1229 2011-01-09 21:37:34 davout has joined
1230 2011-01-09 21:38:14 <davout> hai
1231 2011-01-09 21:38:33 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1236 2011-01-09 21:44:06 <xelister> in cli, how to list last, or all, incomes, like with amount and from and label
1237 2011-01-09 21:46:27 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1238 2011-01-09 21:47:08 <genjix> xelister: listtransactions
1239 2011-01-09 21:47:43 <genjix> ಠ_à²
1240 2011-01-09 21:49:29 <xelister> I dont see label. nor in gettransaction
1241 2011-01-09 21:51:20 <genjix> ic
1242 2011-01-09 21:51:33 fabianhjr has joined
1243 2011-01-09 21:51:39 <fabianhjr> Hi, how is everyone?
1244 2011-01-09 21:52:51 <fabianhjr> davout: would you mind me setting up an exchange here in Mexico with your Bitcoin-Central software?(Won't release it; you already sent it to me)
1245 2011-01-09 21:53:09 <fabianhjr> Or must I wait until Feb 1st?
1246 2011-01-09 21:55:35 <nelisky> hmmm, I tried -initblocks but it fails with Bitcoin: Error initializing block data
1247 2011-01-09 21:55:47 <nelisky> don't seem to quickly find anything else matching this
1248 2011-01-09 21:56:21 coiax has left ()
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1252 2011-01-09 22:05:55 <davout> fabianhjr: go for it
1253 2011-01-09 22:06:18 <davout> fabianhjr: i have support packages for a fee :)
1254 2011-01-09 22:06:23 Guest21063 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1255 2011-01-09 22:06:41 <davout> fabianhjr: give me a github user so you get access to latest source
1256 2011-01-09 22:10:07 <fabianhjr> Oh, ok thanks davout and the anonym donor!
1257 2011-01-09 22:10:34 <fabianhjr> it is the same in all sites I want to be id. fabianhjr.
1258 2011-01-09 22:11:11 <fabianhjr> davout: what's the fee? Royalty or up front? xD
1259 2011-01-09 22:13:20 <fabianhjr> What does it include?
1260 2011-01-09 22:14:49 darkskiez2 has joined
1261 2011-01-09 22:14:53 <fabianhjr> davout: are you still there?
1262 2011-01-09 22:15:53 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1263 2011-01-09 22:16:24 darrob has joined
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1266 2011-01-09 22:18:59 <davout> fabianhjr: yea
1267 2011-01-09 22:19:20 <davout> fabianhjr: what do you mean you want to be id. ?
1268 2011-01-09 22:19:31 <fabianhjr> identified. :P
1269 2011-01-09 22:19:40 <davout> on github?
1270 2011-01-09 22:19:59 <fabianhjr> Yes, I got an account under fabianhjr, also skype fb, many, many. :)
1271 2011-01-09 22:20:05 <davout> ok
1272 2011-01-09 22:20:20 <fabianhjr> so what does the support package includes?
1273 2011-01-09 22:20:53 <davout> well, depends on what you need i guess
1274 2011-01-09 22:21:03 <davout> install? support on some particular thingies?
1275 2011-01-09 22:21:18 <fabianhjr> Ok, so you mean like I get your support? :P
1276 2011-01-09 22:21:24 <davout> hehe
1277 2011-01-09 22:21:43 <davout> do you know how to setup a rails server ?
1278 2011-01-09 22:21:57 <davout> do you know rails at all ?
1279 2011-01-09 22:22:16 <marioxcc> davout: is the bitcoin central software public?
1280 2011-01-09 22:22:18 <davout> i've added you on the repo
1281 2011-01-09 22:22:31 <davout> you have the latest source now
1282 2011-01-09 22:22:41 <davout> marioxcc: it will be on feb 1
1283 2011-01-09 22:22:54 <davout> or right now upon request
1284 2011-01-09 22:22:58 darkskiez2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1285 2011-01-09 22:23:02 <marioxcc> what license it is under?
1286 2011-01-09 22:23:09 <marioxcc> languaje?
1287 2011-01-09 22:23:11 <marioxcc> *guage
1288 2011-01-09 22:23:12 <davout> depdending on whether you want to open an european exchange
1289 2011-01-09 22:23:27 <marioxcc> uh?
1290 2011-01-09 22:24:19 <davout> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2519.0
1291 2011-01-09 22:24:20 <bitbot> Announcing bitcoin-central.net - trade USD and EUR for free!
1292 2011-01-09 22:24:41 <davout> and more specifically
1293 2011-01-09 22:24:44 <davout> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2585.0
1294 2011-01-09 22:24:46 <bitbot> Bitcoin Central going open source ! Open your own trading site for free !
1295 2011-01-09 22:24:46 <fabianhjr> davout: how much would the early repo access cost?
1296 2011-01-09 22:24:55 <davout> fabianhjr: nothing
1297 2011-01-09 22:25:15 <fabianhjr> Ok then, bring it baby. :)
1298 2011-01-09 22:25:20 <davout> fabianhjr: you now have access to the github repo
1299 2011-01-09 22:25:37 <davout> go nuts
1300 2011-01-09 22:25:44 <davout> (go nuts on donations too xD)
1301 2011-01-09 22:25:48 <fabianhjr> thanks devout. xD
1302 2011-01-09 22:26:31 <fabianhjr> davout: I would give you some over time. I am currently half broken and I really want to get some coffee4bitcoin for my birthday this 15th of January. :P
1303 2011-01-09 22:26:59 <davout> hehe
1304 2011-01-09 22:27:03 lolcat has joined
1305 2011-01-09 22:27:04 <davout> i can understand that
1306 2011-01-09 22:27:09 <slush> ;;bc,calcd 600000 1
1307 2011-01-09 22:27:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 7 seconds
1308 2011-01-09 22:27:19 <slush> nanotube: great feature, thanks :)
1309 2011-01-09 22:27:20 <davout> i accept mexican weed in the mail too :3
1310 2011-01-09 22:27:36 <lolcat> If you were bankrupt and needed to generate bitcoins for less than $100 what would you buy?
1311 2011-01-09 22:27:38 <fabianhjr> dovout weed comes from colombia; ask them ;3
1312 2011-01-09 22:27:47 <lolcat> I accept any weed in the mail for bitcoins...
1313 2011-01-09 22:27:53 <lolcat> Like, smokable weed
1314 2011-01-09 22:28:08 <davout> i have mexican friend that tells me lots of good things about his weed
1315 2011-01-09 22:28:29 <fabianhjr> xD lmao.
1316 2011-01-09 22:28:29 <davout> i went on the dutch forums to suggest weed for bitcoins
1317 2011-01-09 22:28:38 darsk1ez has joined
1318 2011-01-09 22:28:45 <davout> they didn't seem very interested :)
1319 2011-01-09 22:28:55 <lolcat> I am going to Amsterdam soon hopefully
1320 2011-01-09 22:29:01 <lfm> lolcat you might be able to find a 5770 for $100 but most cost more.
1321 2011-01-09 22:29:53 <davout> i wish i could generate some weed on my 5970 instead of stupid bitcoins
1322 2011-01-09 22:30:13 <fabianhjr> dovout do you have an atomic level 3D printer?
1323 2011-01-09 22:30:15 <fabianhjr> xD
1324 2011-01-09 22:30:37 <fabianhjr> That would be hell hilarious if you could print anything on a common printer.
1325 2011-01-09 22:30:44 <lolcat> lfm: It is more like 140 in Norway
1326 2011-01-09 22:30:58 <marioxcc> society will just get used to it, then it won't be longer amanzing
1327 2011-01-09 22:31:13 <marioxcc> *amazing
1328 2011-01-09 22:31:13 <davout> yea... i would totally print a babysitter for my daughter
1329 2011-01-09 22:31:24 <lolcat> I would print a slave
1330 2011-01-09 22:31:28 <lolcat> And real coins
1331 2011-01-09 22:31:36 <newsham> dev question, the IsStandard() check in script.cpp prevents the majority of bitcoin clients from accepting/working on transactions that have embedded messages, yes?
1332 2011-01-09 22:31:37 <davout> i would print a printer
1333 2011-01-09 22:31:43 <lfm> lolcat just that I like the 5770s, not sure what you could get for less
1334 2011-01-09 22:32:04 <davout> newsham: i reckon the check only prevents them from working on them
1335 2011-01-09 22:32:36 <fabianhjr> lolcat: the ATI GPUs are the best for mining. They are more cheaper per MHash/sec than Nvidia's
1336 2011-01-09 22:32:39 <ArtForz> iirc it also prevents them from passing em on nowadays
1337 2011-01-09 22:32:51 <newsham> but in effect, that means the bitcoin network wont allow messages, barring any large-hps box which does allow them, right?
1338 2011-01-09 22:33:03 * luke-jr modifies his client to avoid sub-cent change
1339 2011-01-09 22:33:08 <davout> ArtForw: but they'll recognize blocks who have them, amirite?
1340 2011-01-09 22:33:14 <ArtForz> yep
1341 2011-01-09 22:33:16 <lolcat> fabianhjr: I know, but I almost want to get a computer without a gpu, I could just vnc into it, and I'd not have have to move to use it...
1342 2011-01-09 22:33:41 <davout> so somehow you should send your txs to slush's pooled miner
1343 2011-01-09 22:33:52 <luke-jr> lolcat: wtf?
1344 2011-01-09 22:34:04 <newsham> how common are transactions with transaction fees?
1345 2011-01-09 22:34:04 <ArtForz> yep, you pretty much vae to directly connect to a decent miner or a bunch that accept nonstandard tx
1346 2011-01-09 22:34:05 <davout> or any large miner for the matter
1347 2011-01-09 22:34:20 <davout> yea that does accept them
1348 2011-01-09 22:34:27 <luke-jr> lolcat: 1. you can't have a local monitor at all without a GPU; 2. you can VNC to a computer with a GPU
1349 2011-01-09 22:34:41 <newsham> do any of the large pools or gpu farms filter out tx's that dont have tx fees?
1350 2011-01-09 22:34:42 <fabianhjr> lolcat: in that case get the sempron from AMD(1-core) a 1 GB DDR3 stick(Which here in mexico are cheaper than the DDR2 or DDR ones 0_o) and a mobo with integrated graphics.
1351 2011-01-09 22:34:46 <lolcat> luke-jr: I am planning on building a computer, 8GB ram, i7-2600K, 3x 2TB, 60GB ssd, and so on. But a gpu is expencive
1352 2011-01-09 22:34:59 <ArtForz> ?
1353 2011-01-09 22:35:04 <luke-jr> lolcat: not as expensive as all that
1354 2011-01-09 22:35:16 <lolcat> I know, but I dont know what I would remove
1355 2011-01-09 22:35:17 <luke-jr> heck, you can get a GPU cheaper than the RAM
1356 2011-01-09 22:35:19 <lfm> newsham If you add up all the transaction fees ever paid on bitcoin you still wont get as much as one 50btc block finders reward
1357 2011-01-09 22:35:22 <ArtForz> yep
1358 2011-01-09 22:35:24 <fabianhjr> lolcat: you want to get it for mining?
1359 2011-01-09 22:35:27 <luke-jr> lolcat: wtf do you need an i7 for?
1360 2011-01-09 22:35:30 <ArtForz> compared to 16GB ECC ram even a midrange GPU is kinda cheap
1361 2011-01-09 22:35:37 <lolcat> fabianhjr: Fileserver and leetness
1362 2011-01-09 22:35:44 <newsham> lfm: can you submit miner blocks that have no txs in them (other than the 50btc reward)?
1363 2011-01-09 22:35:54 <ArtForz> beauty of AMD, desktop CPUs with ECC support
1364 2011-01-09 22:36:08 <lfm> newsham yes
1365 2011-01-09 22:36:24 <newsham> lfm: so a large pool could reject all no tx-fee txs and still be just as profitable.
1366 2011-01-09 22:36:27 <lolcat> The i7-2600K overclocked to 4,8GHZ beats any AMD cpu...
1367 2011-01-09 22:36:33 <ArtForz> I'm kinda paranoid since a latent bit error wiped out my win2k box half a decade ago or so
1368 2011-01-09 22:36:39 <lfm> newsham pretty much ya
1369 2011-01-09 22:36:44 <fabianhjr> lolcat: get the cheap opetrons from AMD and less RAM(2-4 GB) install something that is not failpache(Apache) and you should be fine.
1370 2011-01-09 22:36:48 <ArtForz> okay, show me a intel desktop cpu/chipset with ECC ram support
1371 2011-01-09 22:36:51 <newsham> artforz: how were you able to dtermine the cause?
1372 2011-01-09 22:36:52 <tcatm> jgarzik: ping?
1373 2011-01-09 22:36:56 <newsham> (i'm all for ecc)
1374 2011-01-09 22:37:01 <jgarzik> tcatm: pong
1375 2011-01-09 22:37:04 <ArtForz> memtest
1376 2011-01-09 22:37:07 <tcatm> jgarzik: iy
1377 2011-01-09 22:37:16 <lolcat> fabianhjr: What would I need apache for on a fileserver? I want files, not webpages...
1378 2011-01-09 22:37:17 <newsham> oh, it was a permanent bit error.
1379 2011-01-09 22:37:24 <luke-jr> ArtForz: that's what backups are for
1380 2011-01-09 22:37:25 <fabianhjr> xD
1381 2011-01-09 22:37:28 <tcatm> jgarzik: is your QR code sepcification still "valid"?
1382 2011-01-09 22:37:28 <lolcat> Also, I like to cache files in the ram
1383 2011-01-09 22:37:30 <ArtForz> yes
1384 2011-01-09 22:37:36 <newsham> luke: bit errors can wreak havoc with backups too
1385 2011-01-09 22:37:37 <fabianhjr> Ok then just get 1-2 GB ram xD
1386 2011-01-09 22:37:47 <jgarzik> tcatm: it seemed like people wanted to use bitcoin URIs
1387 2011-01-09 22:37:47 <luke-jr> newsham: not really
1388 2011-01-09 22:37:48 <newsham> corruption is a bad failur emode
1389 2011-01-09 22:37:52 <ArtForz> yes really
1390 2011-01-09 22:38:08 <luke-jr> not incremental backups
1391 2011-01-09 22:38:13 <luke-jr> I use git
1392 2011-01-09 22:38:15 <luke-jr> :D
1393 2011-01-09 22:38:21 <ArtForz> trying to figure out which file got damaged when is a PITA
1394 2011-01-09 22:38:29 <newsham> luke: you still have to identify which part of yoru backups are not corrupt.
1395 2011-01-09 22:38:36 incog has joined
1396 2011-01-09 22:38:45 <fabianhjr> lolcat: I suppose you are going to use the HDDs in a RAID 5 configuration, right?
1397 2011-01-09 22:38:46 <newsham> and there still might be more recent data which has gotten messed up that is important
1398 2011-01-09 22:38:49 <lolcat> fabianhjr: Yes
1399 2011-01-09 22:38:52 <newsham> yo may not notice corruption for a while
1400 2011-01-09 22:38:53 <lfm> all backups are corrupt
1401 2011-01-09 22:38:59 <luke-jr> newsham: git log is useful
1402 2011-01-09 22:39:01 <fabianhjr> is this for backing purposes?
1403 2011-01-09 22:39:04 <newsham> *sigh*
1404 2011-01-09 22:39:06 <jgarzik> git fsck --full
1405 2011-01-09 22:39:07 <lolcat> Going down to 1GB ram saves me $60 USD, that won't make any diffrence
1406 2011-01-09 22:39:16 <tcatm> jgarzik: I'd like a mix of both. Do you think we could merge bitcoin:$address, x-btc and your spec?
1407 2011-01-09 22:39:19 <fabianhjr> lolcat: get the AMD Sempron
1408 2011-01-09 22:39:19 <luke-jr> lolcat: LOL?
1409 2011-01-09 22:39:21 <lolcat> fabianhjr: Yes, mostly non-vital stuff
1410 2011-01-09 22:39:24 <newsham> I give up.. why do i argue with lukejr?
1411 2011-01-09 22:39:29 <newsham> arguing on irc is so much fun
1412 2011-01-09 22:39:29 <luke-jr> I only have 2 GB RAM, and I use 5 GB memory
1413 2011-01-09 22:39:33 incog has left ()
1414 2011-01-09 22:39:45 <fabianhjr> lolcat: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/sempron/Pages/AMD-sempron-processor-for-desktop.aspx
1415 2011-01-09 22:39:47 <ArtForz> anyways, gotta love AMD for supporting nonreg ECC in "desktop" CPUs
1416 2011-01-09 22:39:58 <luke-jr> ArtForz: sure, but I still don't see the point :P
1417 2011-01-09 22:39:58 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1418 2011-01-09 22:40:02 <jgarzik> tcatm: yes, definitely
1419 2011-01-09 22:40:34 <ArtForz> run anything remotely important with any remotely important data
1420 2011-01-09 22:40:43 <lfm> some say ecc compilcations just increase the chances of failures
1421 2011-01-09 22:40:50 <luke-jr> ArtForz: again, incremental backups
1422 2011-01-09 22:41:03 <lolcat> fabianhjr: The i7-2600K is faster
1423 2011-01-09 22:41:28 <luke-jr> and yes, let the local machine do the git logic. just have your remotes refuse any history changes
1424 2011-01-09 22:41:32 <fabianhjr> lolcat: why do you need processor speed? mining while not using it?
1425 2011-01-09 22:41:42 <luke-jr> then you get the added benefit of being warned when something is screwy
1426 2011-01-09 22:41:57 dwdollar has joined
1427 2011-01-09 22:42:14 <ArtForz> lfm: how would that work?
1428 2011-01-09 22:42:23 <lolcat> fabianhjr: Heating maybe, maybe I want to play a game or compile something or something like that
1429 2011-01-09 22:42:28 <ArtForz> false positives wouldnt exactly cause data corruption
1430 2011-01-09 22:42:57 <fabianhjr> lolcat: is this for backup/fileserver uses or are you going to use it with a screen? Compiling what? 3D apps?
1431 2011-01-09 22:43:06 darsk1ez has joined
1432 2011-01-09 22:43:36 <lolcat> fabianhjr: XMLPC-somethign
1433 2011-01-09 22:43:40 <lfm> artforz also kinda depends what you do when soft fails are reported. if you dont fix em then you get exposed to hard fails anyway
1434 2011-01-09 22:43:42 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: compiling some software can take very long if you don't have a good CPU
1435 2011-01-09 22:43:51 <ArtForz> yep
1436 2011-01-09 22:44:04 <ArtForz> ignoring soft fails isn't a too good idea
1437 2011-01-09 22:44:04 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: I am aware of that. :P
1438 2011-01-09 22:44:08 <lolcat> fabianhjr: I would prefer the option of having a screen, but at 150$ I am not sure it is worth it
1439 2011-01-09 22:44:29 <fabianhjr> lolcat: get a mobo with integrated graphics then.
1440 2011-01-09 22:44:39 <fabianhjr> There are many AMD ones.
1441 2011-01-09 22:45:14 <ArtForz> fails when the ram seems otherwise ok are very rare anyways
1442 2011-01-09 22:45:21 <lolcat> fabianhjr: The i7-2600k has a gpu built in, do any AMD cpus have built in gpus?
1443 2011-01-09 22:45:34 <fabianhjr> The issue would be 3D gaming. You could get an old ATI card for 50 bucks and play MW at lowest 480*640 if you want.
1444 2011-01-09 22:45:40 <lfm> you gotta run X anyway (if its linux) so why have another vid adapter?
1445 2011-01-09 22:45:43 <ArtForz> whats the point of poutting a fucking anemic GPU in a CPU?
1446 2011-01-09 22:45:52 <marioxcc> ArtForz: markething
1447 2011-01-09 22:46:05 <fabianhjr> ArtForz: that you must not buy a GPU at all.
1448 2011-01-09 22:46:17 <ArtForz> well, okay... except completely getting rid of a northbridge
1449 2011-01-09 22:46:18 <fabianhjr> Just use the shitty 2D graphics included.
1450 2011-01-09 22:46:19 <lfm> artforz same as putting aneimic gpu on motherboard
1451 2011-01-09 22:46:23 riX2000_ has joined
1452 2011-01-09 22:46:50 <lolcat> fabianhjr: I only play Zombies in black ops on the PS3
1453 2011-01-09 22:47:10 <fabianhjr> so you won't game on this computer? Only compile?
1454 2011-01-09 22:47:38 <fabianhjr> marioxcc: can compilers benefit with more cores?
1455 2011-01-09 22:48:02 <ArtForz> not directly, thats what we usually have parallel make for
1456 2011-01-09 22:48:04 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: mostly not, you just compile in parallel
1457 2011-01-09 22:48:04 <lfm> fabianhjr use parrallel make
1458 2011-01-09 22:48:07 <lolcat> fabianhjr: if you compile seceral things at once
1459 2011-01-09 22:48:10 <marioxcc> make -j 4
1460 2011-01-09 22:48:12 <ArtForz> make -j fuckload = fun
1461 2011-01-09 22:48:23 <marioxcc> ArtForz: rfol
1462 2011-01-09 22:48:37 <fabianhjr> :P LOL
1463 2011-01-09 22:49:01 <nanotube> nelisky: afaik, if you jsut delete blkindex.dat, it will reindex the chain and your wallet will be showing up good as new.
1464 2011-01-09 22:49:09 <ArtForz> especially with g++... "what do you mean, OOM on box with 8G ram"
1465 2011-01-09 22:49:16 <lfm> also gcc can be piplined to use more than one process
1466 2011-01-09 22:49:32 <marioxcc> lfm: really worth it?
1467 2011-01-09 22:49:40 <lfm> not a lot
1468 2011-01-09 22:50:34 <fabianhjr> Ok then, lolcat the Sempron is then perfect the 145 runs at 2.8 GHz(Same as my i7 930)
1469 2011-01-09 22:51:36 <marioxcc> fabianhjr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth
1470 2011-01-09 22:52:07 <lolcat> fabianhjr: But the 2600k runs at 3,4ghz and you can overclock it to 4,8ghz if you replace the fan with and icecube and use the computer fast
1471 2011-01-09 22:52:25 <fabianhjr> lolcat: LOL
1472 2011-01-09 22:52:30 <luke-jr> lfm: wtf? why would you need to run X? why would running X require a vid adapter?
1473 2011-01-09 22:52:38 <marioxcc> icecube? bah, use liquid nitrogen
1474 2011-01-09 22:52:41 <ArtForz> btw, S1366 i7 kinda feels like a marketing stunt
1475 2011-01-09 22:53:00 <lfm> luke-jr the opencl and cuda support are in the X drivers
1476 2011-01-09 22:53:08 <lolcat> fabianhjr: I think it can be run at 4,8ghz with air cooling
1477 2011-01-09 22:53:22 <luke-jr> lfm: proprietary drivers means not Linux
1478 2011-01-09 22:53:48 <lfm> luke huh?
1479 2011-01-09 22:53:48 <lolcat> fabianhjr: Asian overclocker windwithme has published benchmarks with an Intel Core i7-2600K CPU overclocked to 5.12 GHz with regular air cooling.
1480 2011-01-09 22:53:53 <ArtForz> with correct phase of the moon, maybe
1481 2011-01-09 22:54:35 <fabianhjr> lolcat: hehe, how much did it last and which aftermarket cooler?
1482 2011-01-09 22:54:47 <luke-jr> lfm: Linux is free software. A non-free kernel (such as one infected by nVidia or ATI's blobs) is not Linux
1483 2011-01-09 22:55:07 <lolcat> fabianhjr: No idea, doesn't intrest me much, but if he can do 5,12 I can do 4,8
1484 2011-01-09 22:55:23 <ArtForz> or 4.3
1485 2011-01-09 22:55:32 <davout> luke-jr: meh
1486 2011-01-09 22:55:42 <lfm> /ignore luke-jr
1487 2011-01-09 22:56:03 <fabianhjr> lol no way. You will end up killing the cpu at a 50%+ increase xD
1488 2011-01-09 22:56:09 <ArtForz> sometimes CPUs are really downbinned because they're bad OCers
1489 2011-01-09 22:56:31 <davout> omg, bitcoin central code has an embedded gif, if thats a non free format bitcoin central is shit XD
1490 2011-01-09 22:56:52 <lfm> gif is free now
1491 2011-01-09 22:56:54 <luke-jr> davout: GIF is free
1492 2011-01-09 22:56:56 <luke-jr> has been for a whiloe
1493 2011-01-09 22:56:58 <marioxcc> davout: you have no idea what you're talking about
1494 2011-01-09 22:57:07 <luke-jr> GIF just sucks ;P
1495 2011-01-09 22:57:08 <lfm> patents expired in like 2002
1496 2011-01-09 22:57:11 <marioxcc> it WAS _patented_, not non-free format
1497 2011-01-09 22:57:12 <luke-jr> 256 colours?
1498 2011-01-09 22:57:22 <davout> thats why the "if" couldn't be fucked looking up a non free one ;)
1499 2011-01-09 22:57:22 <luke-jr> marioxcc: patents are how formats are non-free
1500 2011-01-09 22:57:52 <marioxcc> luke-jr: well, depending on your interpretation of "format"
1501 2011-01-09 22:58:06 <ArtForz> yes, it's nowadays patent-free, it's also 8-bit with simple 1-bit mask transparency = teh suck
1502 2011-01-09 22:58:16 <lfm> yes software patents suck but theyre still out there
1503 2011-01-09 22:58:24 <davout> marioxcc: if you want to make an apple pie from scratch, then you have to start by inventing the universe
1504 2011-01-09 22:58:31 mtgox has joined
1505 2011-01-09 22:58:41 <davout> not in europe
1506 2011-01-09 22:58:58 <ArtForz> well, they exist, just not enforcable
1507 2011-01-09 22:59:07 <lfm> just grow an apple tree and some wheat
1508 2011-01-09 22:59:24 <davout> you can't patent software in europe afaik
1509 2011-01-09 22:59:34 <ArtForz> well... kinda
1510 2011-01-09 22:59:44 <marioxcc> really? great
1511 2011-01-09 22:59:47 <davout> ArtForz: talking about the american ones ? still "existing" in europe ?
1512 2011-01-09 22:59:55 <ArtForz> errrr... not quite
1513 2011-01-09 23:00:03 <davout> hmm
1514 2011-01-09 23:00:08 <davout> thought you couldn't
1515 2011-01-09 23:00:09 <ArtForz> it's a bit... weird
1516 2011-01-09 23:00:13 darsk1ez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1517 2011-01-09 23:00:39 <lfm> but is true, very hard to enforce
1518 2011-01-09 23:01:30 <lfm> most seem to be perpetuated by cross licencing among big companies
1519 2011-01-09 23:01:49 <davout> wtf?
1520 2011-01-09 23:02:30 <ArtForz> hard to explain really
1521 2011-01-09 23:02:36 <davout> i guess
1522 2011-01-09 23:02:51 <nanotube> davout: so out of curiosity... why are you waiting for feb1 to release bc code?
1523 2011-01-09 23:03:01 <ArtForz> you can get a patent the use of a algorithm in hardware
1524 2011-01-09 23:03:15 <davout> because i wanted to have some advance in opening the first european exchange
1525 2011-01-09 23:03:20 <ArtForz> which kinda makes sense
1526 2011-01-09 23:03:38 <davout> like in "but mummy, if i share my pie... does it mean i have less pie?Ã"
1527 2011-01-09 23:03:40 <davout> :)
1528 2011-01-09 23:03:57 <nanotube> davout: hehe ic
1529 2011-01-09 23:04:09 <ArtForz> it gets weird where you can also patent use of said algorithm in general-purpose hardware
1530 2011-01-09 23:04:11 <davout> kinda silly i know
1531 2011-01-09 23:04:24 <nanotube> davout: nah it's fine... was just curious. :)
1532 2011-01-09 23:04:27 <ArtForz> = now you got a sorta-but-not-quite SW patent
1533 2011-01-09 23:05:03 <davout> isn't the mp3 encoding algorithm patented?
1534 2011-01-09 23:05:10 <ArtForz> yes
1535 2011-01-09 23:05:22 <davout> zee germans again
1536 2011-01-09 23:05:30 <ArtForz> has been for like ages
1537 2011-01-09 23:05:31 <luke-jr> that's why most distros can't encode MP3s
1538 2011-01-09 23:05:58 <luke-jr> at least patents expire half-sanely
1539 2011-01-09 23:06:20 darsk1ez has joined
1540 2011-01-09 23:06:29 <lfm> ya seems mp3 should expire soon
1541 2011-01-09 23:06:36 <ArtForz> and again, it's weird
1542 2011-01-09 23:06:51 <davout> it's weird it hasn't been successfully challenged
1543 2011-01-09 23:06:57 <ArtForz> notice they never went after SW encoders
1544 2011-01-09 23:07:31 <ArtForz> not in EU at least
1545 2011-01-09 23:07:35 <marioxcc> any advance in general purpose timestamping with bitcoin network?
1546 2011-01-09 23:07:38 <lfm> just threats to bully peole into licences mosty
1547 2011-01-09 23:07:42 <davout> the whole concept of patenting a-particular-way-of-doing-something is so retarded
1548 2011-01-09 23:08:00 <sipa> marioxcc: how do you mean?
1549 2011-01-09 23:08:15 <ArtForz> didnt IBM patent patenting a while back?
1550 2011-01-09 23:08:22 <davout> lol
1551 2011-01-09 23:08:25 <lfm> davout isnt that what most inventions are?
1552 2011-01-09 23:08:34 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1553 2011-01-09 23:08:39 <davout> i dunno
1554 2011-01-09 23:08:57 <davout> like to me, patenting an algorithm is like patenting a recipe for cooking sthg
1555 2011-01-09 23:09:02 <marioxcc> sipa: to use the bitcoin blocks to timestapm information in general
1556 2011-01-09 23:09:13 <ArtForz> dunno, patent standards in general seem to have... deteriorated
1557 2011-01-09 23:09:19 <sipa> marioxcc: referring to BitDNS/BitX ?
1558 2011-01-09 23:09:29 <marioxcc> sipa: uh? no
1559 2011-01-09 23:09:39 <sipa> can you give an example then?
1560 2011-01-09 23:10:08 <davout> marioxcc: timestamping is easier done on 4chan
1561 2011-01-09 23:10:10 <ArtForz> what got patented used to be novel and sometimes even useful inventions, nowadays it seems to be 'doing X, on the internet'
1562 2011-01-09 23:10:36 <marioxcc> davout: could you please elaborate?
1563 2011-01-09 23:10:43 <davout> marioxcc: nvm
1564 2011-01-09 23:10:52 <davout> i wasn't being serious
1565 2011-01-09 23:10:54 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1566 2011-01-09 23:11:00 <marioxcc> ok
1567 2011-01-09 23:11:10 <lfm> artforz ya a lot of them sound like combining pancil and eraser which was not spozed to be patentable
1568 2011-01-09 23:11:15 <davout> anyway, to me, patents negate one of the fundamental things in human nature, imitation
1569 2011-01-09 23:11:37 <marioxcc> davout: i think they were originally meant as a artifficial right to promote invention
1570 2011-01-09 23:11:43 <davout> i like the way my 1.5 yo daughter puts the laundry in the dryer, just like mummy :)
1571 2011-01-09 23:11:43 <marioxcc> (and limited in time)
1572 2011-01-09 23:11:58 <davout> yea i know
1573 2011-01-09 23:12:35 <ArtForz> SW patents are just fucking crazy sometimes
1574 2011-01-09 23:12:44 <marioxcc> most the time, I would say
1575 2011-01-09 23:13:04 <ArtForz> especially when they patent fucking obvious things
1576 2011-01-09 23:13:09 <sipa> the idea for patents to give a limited-time monopoly to inventors, to stimulate research... when it is used to legally encumber solutions for problems that any expert in the field can come up with himself, its purpose is lost
1577 2011-01-09 23:13:14 <marioxcc> also when they patent impossible things
1578 2011-01-09 23:13:19 <lfm> worst is when they patent stuff that everyone has been doing for years
1579 2011-01-09 23:13:23 <ArtForz> yep
1580 2011-01-09 23:13:31 <marioxcc> ArtForz: http://gailly.net/05533051.html
1581 2011-01-09 23:13:37 <davout> lfm: well, theoretically thats not allowed
1582 2011-01-09 23:13:41 <marioxcc> Patent 5,533,051 on compression of random data, wtf?
1583 2011-01-09 23:13:52 <ArtForz> lol
1584 2011-01-09 23:14:02 <ArtForz> perpetual motion machine of SW patents
1585 2011-01-09 23:14:09 <marioxcc> sort of :)
1586 2011-01-09 23:14:56 <tcatm> jgarzik: What do you think about this idea? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2705.msg36764#msg36764
1587 2011-01-09 23:14:57 james has joined
1588 2011-01-09 23:14:58 <bitbot> Bitcoin-Address to QR-Code [support for URI-Schemes] : tcatm: I propose a scheme like this: () means optional, $* are placeholders <div class="codeheader">Code:</div><div class="code">bitcoin://($label@)$address(?amount=$amount)(#$message) </div> label: Label for that address (e.g. name of receiver) address: bitcoin address amount: amount of BTC message: optiona...
1589 2011-01-09 23:15:07 <ArtForz> iirc there not too long ago was a patent filed on something like "image resizing using a fourier transform for creation of preview images"
1590 2011-01-09 23:15:23 james is now known as Guest23420
1591 2011-01-09 23:15:31 james__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1592 2011-01-09 23:16:18 <davout> i'm going to patent the brute force general algorithm pattern
1593 2011-01-09 23:16:34 <ArtForz> aka "no shit sherlock, you can use a FFT + inverse to resize images, and you generally resize images to create thumbnails, why is combining that novel?"
1594 2011-01-09 23:16:38 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/45e3fa0263155459f12ad8a24fd48e3731061eca918b81e1f89af8b0efd4857e
1595 2011-01-09 23:16:39 <luke-jr> yay
1596 2011-01-09 23:16:47 <luke-jr> 3 inputs, just to avoid tx fee :D
1597 2011-01-09 23:17:04 <ArtForz> nice
1598 2011-01-09 23:17:10 <marioxcc> ArtForz: that makes me wonder, do they actually read the patents they approve?
1599 2011-01-09 23:17:12 <marioxcc> probably not
1600 2011-01-09 23:17:24 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1601 2011-01-09 23:17:47 <ArtForz> yeah, I think there's plenty "rubberstamp em all, let the courts sort em out later" patent reviewers
1602 2011-01-09 23:17:50 <sipa> someone probably reads them
1603 2011-01-09 23:18:07 <marioxcc> ArtForz: seems so :/
1604 2011-01-09 23:18:16 <sipa> just to make sure something with typo's doesn't get accepted :D
1605 2011-01-09 23:18:24 <marioxcc> lol
1606 2011-01-09 23:18:46 <ArtForz> I think I remember finding quite a few typos and flat out wrong stuff in patents
1607 2011-01-09 23:20:27 <marioxcc> luke-jr: but it is > 0.01, would it require a fee anyway?
1608 2011-01-09 23:20:32 <ArtForz> as in, used formula with example inputs/outputs as given in patent produces completely different results from what the example in the patent says
1609 2011-01-09 23:20:58 <luke-jr> marioxcc: it would require a fee to output the change
1610 2011-01-09 23:21:12 <luke-jr> marioxcc: by adding a 3rd input, the change is ALSO >0.01
1611 2011-01-09 23:21:56 <marioxcc> weir
1612 2011-01-09 23:21:59 <marioxcc> *weird
1613 2011-01-09 23:22:08 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1614 2011-01-09 23:22:31 <marioxcc> dumb the one who designed the fee system for which there is a workaround, in the first place
1615 2011-01-09 23:22:35 <nanotube> luke-jr: seems like a good patch to suggest for inclusion into the client. to avoid unnecessary loss of subcents to fees.
1616 2011-01-09 23:22:48 <ArtForz> yep
1617 2011-01-09 23:23:07 <nanotube> marioxcc: you misunderstand the purpose of fees and specifically their requirement for <.01 tx outputs.
1618 2011-01-09 23:23:32 <marioxcc> nanotube: could you please elaborate?
1619 2011-01-09 23:23:54 * marioxcc adds a keybinding to insert that phrase in emacs
1620 2011-01-09 23:24:02 <luke-jr> nanotube: go ahead and merge :P
1621 2011-01-09 23:24:08 <ArtForz> imo fees on < 0.01 outputs is to avoid accumulating millions of unspent 0.00000001 transactions
1622 2011-01-09 23:24:08 <luke-jr> or pull
1623 2011-01-09 23:24:21 <ArtForz> doing that with >= 0.01 outputs is a lot more costly
1624 2011-01-09 23:24:25 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1625 2011-01-09 23:24:45 <nanotube> luke-jr: i'm not one of the bitcoin devs. post a 'pull request' msg on the dev forum for gavin to see.
1626 2011-01-09 23:24:55 <luke-jr> <.<
1627 2011-01-09 23:24:57 <nanotube> marioxcc: see what ArtForz sid.
1628 2011-01-09 23:24:58 <nanotube> said
1629 2011-01-09 23:25:06 <sipa> what's <.< ?
1630 2011-01-09 23:25:13 <marioxcc> but what's bad with such millions of 0.00000001 transactions?
1631 2011-01-09 23:25:16 <nanotube> it's a smiley, sipa
1632 2011-01-09 23:25:23 <marioxcc> can't you meld them?
1633 2011-01-09 23:25:31 <ArtForz> errrr... you have to keep em around
1634 2011-01-09 23:25:34 <nanotube> marioxcc: block chain bloat
1635 2011-01-09 23:25:57 <marioxcc> no, let's see
1636 2011-01-09 23:26:01 EvanR has joined
1637 2011-01-09 23:26:12 <marioxcc> if you get paid one base BTC (0.00000001)
1638 2011-01-09 23:26:49 <marioxcc> as soon as it gets confirmed you can do a transaction of X+0.00000001 back to one of your address
1639 2011-01-09 23:26:56 <marioxcc> (you or the client)
1640 2011-01-09 23:26:59 <ArtForz> and?
1641 2011-01-09 23:27:08 <sipa> nanotube: obviously, but what does it mean :)
1642 2011-01-09 23:27:09 <marioxcc> then what's the loss?
1643 2011-01-09 23:27:11 <ArtForz> that output is spent, I can forget about it if I want to
1644 2011-01-09 23:27:38 <ArtForz> I can prune a long chain of TX ending in one output to... that last TX
1645 2011-01-09 23:28:00 <ArtForz> if I have a million TX with unspent outputs, I have to keep em around just in case they ever get spent
1646 2011-01-09 23:28:33 <ArtForz> and disallowing "too small" outputs nicely reduces that problem
1647 2011-01-09 23:28:59 freetx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1648 2011-01-09 23:30:08 <marioxcc> ArtForz: my point is you can merge these milion tx into a single one to yourself
1649 2011-01-09 23:30:15 <marioxcc> then you only have to keep that one
1650 2011-01-09 23:30:23 <marioxcc> if i'm not missing anything
1651 2011-01-09 23:30:35 <marioxcc> or, do I?
1652 2011-01-09 23:30:36 <marioxcc> hmm
1653 2011-01-09 23:31:29 <ArtForz> you can't
1654 2011-01-09 23:31:46 lfm has joined
1655 2011-01-09 23:31:48 <gavinandresen> marioxcc: the person generating the million 0.000000001 transactions isn't you, it is some jerk that just wants everybody, for all time, to have to carry around all those unspent microbitcoins.
1656 2011-01-09 23:31:56 <ArtForz> yep
1657 2011-01-09 23:32:32 <ArtForz> they're microbitcents ;)
1658 2011-01-09 23:33:07 <ArtForz> = creating 1M and leaving them unspent forever costs the attacker... 0.01 BTC
1659 2011-01-09 23:33:21 <gavinandresen> Cheap thrills. If they're allowed to do that...
1660 2011-01-09 23:33:29 <ArtForz> doing the same with 0.01 tx ... 10000 btc
1661 2011-01-09 23:34:02 <marioxcc> ok
1662 2011-01-09 23:35:01 <sipa> there must be some better criterion to discourage that
1663 2011-01-09 23:35:27 <ArtForz> so 0.007 + 0.006 + 0.008 -> 0.01 + 0.011 is perfectly ok
1664 2011-01-09 23:35:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh
1665 2011-01-09 23:36:15 <Diablo-D3> microbitcents is about right
1666 2011-01-09 23:36:22 <Diablo-D3> 6 places give us ubtc
1667 2011-01-09 23:36:24 nelisky has quit (Quit: nelisky)
1668 2011-01-09 23:36:38 <nanotube> gavinandresen: did you see luke-jr's earlier post about the patch that automatically ads inputs to prevent microoutputs and thus save on fees?
1669 2011-01-09 23:36:44 <ArtForz> and we have 8 places, so we have microcents ;)
1670 2011-01-09 23:36:54 <ArtForz> which kinda sounds somewhat cool
1671 2011-01-09 23:37:02 <sipa> if you have a transactions which use a lot of very small inputs, to create the same amount of very small outputs, there is no permanent damage to the block chain
1672 2011-01-09 23:37:05 <Diablo-D3> well, this makes little sense as possible, so...
1673 2011-01-09 23:37:08 <Diablo-D3> *cough*
1674 2011-01-09 23:37:14 <ArtForz> mixing prefixes is fun!
1675 2011-01-09 23:38:24 <ArtForz> sipa: yep
1676 2011-01-09 23:38:24 <gavinandresen> nanotube: yup. I didn't catch the start of the thread-- how did he end up with sub-0.01-cent transactions in the first place? Is one of the shared miners creating sub-cent transactions?
1677 2011-01-09 23:38:37 <ArtForz> iirc the old one does
1678 2011-01-09 23:38:38 <nanotube> sipa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons
1679 2011-01-09 23:39:01 <nanotube> gavinandresen: possibly. i don't think that was part of the conversation. :)
1680 2011-01-09 23:39:15 <ArtForz> slush's just internally accumulates shares until a miner gets >= 0.01
1681 2011-01-09 23:39:33 <ArtForz> the old pool created coinbases with sub-cent outputs
1682 2011-01-09 23:40:00 <ArtForz> slushs still produces stuff like 0.0123456 outputs though
1683 2011-01-09 23:40:15 nelisky has joined
1684 2011-01-09 23:40:31 <marioxcc> ArtForz: it don't
1685 2011-01-09 23:40:36 <ArtForz> it used to
1686 2011-01-09 23:40:49 <marioxcc> but not any more
1687 2011-01-09 23:40:52 <ArtForz> so he now limits to whole cents?
1688 2011-01-09 23:40:59 <nanotube> ArtForz: yes..
1689 2011-01-09 23:41:05 <ArtForz> good
1690 2011-01-09 23:41:13 <marioxcc> wait
1691 2011-01-09 23:41:13 <nanotube> he hasn't sent microtx for a while now. maybe only at the very start.
1692 2011-01-09 23:41:15 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1693 2011-01-09 23:41:26 <marioxcc> so every node have to keep the whole list of unspent transactions?
1694 2011-01-09 23:41:31 <ArtForz> yes
1695 2011-01-09 23:41:37 <nanotube> marioxcc: it's in the block chain. that's what the block chain is.
1696 2011-01-09 23:41:43 <ArtForz> well, kinda
1697 2011-01-09 23:41:57 <nanotube> well, currently it also keeps spent tx :)
1698 2011-01-09 23:42:24 <ArtForz> you also have to keep a DB of unspent TX so you can look em up quickly
1699 2011-01-09 23:42:32 <marioxcc> hey, didnt blocks just stored the merkle tree?
1700 2011-01-09 23:42:36 <gavinandresen> disk space is cheap, there's no real reason to try to delete old spent transactions.
1701 2011-01-09 23:42:57 <ArtForz> yeah
1702 2011-01-09 23:43:13 <ArtForz> but keeping em around in a DB so you can index by TXhash is a bit more costly
1703 2011-01-09 23:43:38 <gavinandresen> RE: subcent transactions in general: I agree it all needs more careful thought. davout had a related issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues#issue/18
1704 2011-01-09 23:43:41 <ArtForz> especially as you have to do a bunch of lookups in that DB for every new TX you see
1705 2011-01-09 23:44:13 <marioxcc> oh, ok
1706 2011-01-09 23:45:24 <nanotube> gavinandresen: well, davout's problem is unsolvable, since he didn't have any extra bitcoins to throw in. right?
1707 2011-01-09 23:45:39 <nanotube> gavinandresen: he was sending 50 out of 50.00x total in wallet...
1708 2011-01-09 23:46:11 <luke-jr> I wish it did
1709 2011-01-09 23:46:15 <luke-jr> (slush's payouts)
1710 2011-01-09 23:46:31 <ArtForz> yep, whats the client supposed to do then?
1711 2011-01-09 23:46:33 <tcatm> I remember having that problem without those subcent becomes fee code. That's even more annoying.
1712 2011-01-09 23:46:40 <luke-jr> ArtForz: exactly what it does now with my patch :P
1713 2011-01-09 23:47:20 <luke-jr> tcatm: I fixed that
1714 2011-01-09 23:47:31 <ArtForz> so if you have 5.00 and 1.001 and send 6 it does... what exactly?
1715 2011-01-09 23:47:41 <luke-jr> ArtForz: then it loses :P
1716 2011-01-09 23:47:54 <luke-jr> bnt if you have 5, 1.001, and .999, then it uses all 3 and has 1 change
1717 2011-01-09 23:48:02 <ArtForz> unless we consider "just send more than requested" acceptable ;)
1718 2011-01-09 23:48:09 <gavinandresen> nanotube: perhaps the JSON-RPC api shouldn't be rounding... if you have 50.006 bitcoins, you should be able to send 50.006 bitcoins somewhere.
1719 2011-01-09 23:48:23 <luke-jr> ArtForz: you mean *un*acceptable?
1720 2011-01-09 23:48:30 <luke-jr> ArtForz: I see no reason it shouldn't be acceptable
1721 2011-01-09 23:48:30 <ArtForz> no, acceptable
1722 2011-01-09 23:48:46 <ArtForz> = I have 5 + 1.001, I want to send 6, recipient gets 6.001
1723 2011-01-09 23:48:58 <luke-jr> ArtForz: that's lame
1724 2011-01-09 23:49:10 <ArtForz> well, you lose the 0.001 anyways
1725 2011-01-09 23:49:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: my branch also does not round
1726 2011-01-09 23:49:26 <nanotube> gavinandresen: yea the forced rounding has been ticking me off for a while now. :P
1727 2011-01-09 23:49:30 <luke-jr> ArtForz: not if you have extra 1 BTC to throw on
1728 2011-01-09 23:49:32 <luke-jr> err
1729 2011-01-09 23:49:34 <luke-jr> 0.01 BTC
1730 2011-01-09 23:49:37 <ArtForz> yeah
1731 2011-01-09 23:49:42 <ArtForz> my personal branch hasn't been rounding for ages
1732 2011-01-09 23:49:47 <luke-jr> nanotube: gavinandresen: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/45e3fa0263155459f12ad8a24fd48e3731061eca918b81e1f89af8b0efd4857e
1733 2011-01-09 23:50:05 omglolbbq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1734 2011-01-09 23:50:08 <ArtForz> it also never produces fee-required transactions
1735 2011-01-09 23:50:16 <luke-jr> ArtForz: mine either, using ifndef :P
1736 2011-01-09 23:50:33 <luke-jr> it refuses to even *create* the transaction with a fee > what I explicitly set
1737 2011-01-09 23:50:47 <luke-jr> including sub-cent "fees"
1738 2011-01-09 23:50:48 <ArtForz> mine just creates it without fee
1739 2011-01-09 23:50:57 <luke-jr> ArtForz: how does that affect it?
1740 2011-01-09 23:51:14 <ArtForz> the netwrok wont pass on the TX, no other miner will include it
1741 2011-01-09 23:51:35 <ArtForz> which doesnt really matter all that much if you're producing about 1 block/hour
1742 2011-01-09 23:51:47 <luke-jr> wait, the network won't even pass it to miners?
1743 2011-01-09 23:51:52 <ArtForz> yep
1744 2011-01-09 23:51:57 <luke-jr> ew
1745 2011-01-09 23:52:46 <ArtForz> see the changes in r199 main.cpp
1746 2011-01-09 23:52:47 <nanotube> ArtForz: haha yea, the benefits of being a miner.
1747 2011-01-09 23:52:49 <luke-jr> so I need to connect direct to you, if I want to send sub-cent values w/o a fee? ;)
1748 2011-01-09 23:53:15 <ArtForz> actually I won't include "underfeed" tx from anyone else
1749 2011-01-09 23:53:25 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: why do you want to send sub-cent transactions?
1750 2011-01-09 23:53:31 <ArtForz> benefits of being a miner ;)
1751 2011-01-09 23:53:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: because BTCents are too big
1752 2011-01-09 23:53:37 <nanotube> heh
1753 2011-01-09 23:53:43 <gavinandresen> too big for what?
1754 2011-01-09 23:53:48 <ArtForz> dunno, imo they're pretty small
1755 2011-01-09 23:53:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: real-world adoption
1756 2011-01-09 23:54:02 <ArtForz> how often do you want to give someone < $0.003 ?
1757 2011-01-09 23:54:13 <luke-jr> ArtForz: when there are over 21 million users, fairly often
1758 2011-01-09 23:54:30 <ArtForz> when there are 21 million users we'll change the limit
1759 2011-01-09 23:54:37 <luke-jr> :p
1760 2011-01-09 23:54:46 <gavinandresen> Hmm. I'm pretty sure PayPal doesn't let me send $0.003 to somebody, and last time I checked PayPal fit the definition of "real world adoption"
1761 2011-01-09 23:54:56 <luke-jr> until then, I'm working in 0.01048576 minimums
1762 2011-01-09 23:54:57 <nanotube> gavinandresen: well consider that 1 btc is now .3+ usd, which is say... 9+ rubles. which means 1 bitcent is bigger than 1 kopeck. i'm sure there are other cheaper currencies, where 1 bitcent is larger than the smallest denomination.
1763 2011-01-09 23:54:58 <gavinandresen> (and I KNOW my bank won't allow sub-cent sends)
1764 2011-01-09 23:55:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there's far more USD than 21mil
1765 2011-01-09 23:55:43 <Cusipzzz> agree...not an issue unless BTC hits 1:1 USD, then everyone can crib about it
1766 2011-01-09 23:56:00 <sipa> gavinandresen: but the problem is not that you're not able to send very small amounts to someone, the problem is that splitting small amounts in your own wallet may eventually lead to things that are very small
1767 2011-01-09 23:56:05 <nanotube> Cusipzzz: usd is not the only fiat currency out there :P
1768 2011-01-09 23:56:08 <luke-jr> if "everyone" has to do something, "everyone" can just as easily adopt a new cryptocurrency :P
1769 2011-01-09 23:56:12 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I started a thread on the forums a while ago asking when we should "move the decimal points" ....
1770 2011-01-09 23:56:18 <ArtForz> and even then we'll probably wont care (yet)
1771 2011-01-09 23:56:26 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'm anti-decimal.
1772 2011-01-09 23:56:30 <nanotube> gavinandresen: and as you recall, i answered "just stop rounding right now"
1773 2011-01-09 23:56:32 <Cusipzzz> nanotube: agree, but .01usd is pretty worthless just about everywhere :p
1774 2011-01-09 23:56:33 <nanotube> :)
1775 2011-01-09 23:56:52 <gavinandresen> nanotube: we can't ignore the transaction spam problem. It won't just go away.
1776 2011-01-09 23:57:11 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: rounding != minimum
1777 2011-01-09 23:57:19 <gavinandresen> nanotube: but the right answer might be "disallow very small transactions, but allow high-precision transactions that are greater than 0.01"
1778 2011-01-09 23:57:21 <luke-jr> 1.00000001 is not a problem
1779 2011-01-09 23:57:29 <ArtForz> yep
1780 2011-01-09 23:57:35 <ArtForz> I/O rounding is stupid
1781 2011-01-09 23:57:40 <gavinandresen> I think we might be in violent agreement.
1782 2011-01-09 23:57:43 <lolcat> When bitcoin gets 10 billion users won't every user need ALOT of bandwith?
1783 2011-01-09 23:57:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.01048576 BTC = 1 áµTBC âº
1784 2011-01-09 23:57:50 <Cusipzzz> agree w/that, still think it's a non-issue at this point
1785 2011-01-09 23:58:10 <nanotube> ;;google calc 1 phillipine peso in usd
1786 2011-01-09 23:58:11 <gribble> 1 Philippine peso = 0.0226 US dollars
1787 2011-01-09 23:58:30 <lolcat> If each person have 10 transactions a day, how much bandwith are we talking about?
1788 2011-01-09 23:58:36 <gavinandresen> Gotta go cook dinner, talk to y'all later
1789 2011-01-09 23:58:42 <nanotube> gavinandresen: exactly. i'm not saying that we should remove the <.01 fee requirement. just to allow more precision beyond, for the moment.
1790 2011-01-09 23:59:02 <luke-jr> nanotube: at least not yet
1791 2011-01-09 23:59:07 <ArtForz> yeah, people should be allowed to send 3.14159265 if they want to
1792 2011-01-09 23:59:09 <nanotube> luke-jr: right, not yet
1793 2011-01-09 23:59:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: if i'm mmining in a pool like slush'es, and i'm receiving money from him as soon as my balance there goes over 0.01 (which isn't the case for me, but maybe it is for some), i will be getting many tx outputs only slightly above 0.01
1794 2011-01-09 23:59:20 <luke-jr> minimum should be 0.00000256 in the future :P
1795 2011-01-09 23:59:34 <nanotube> sipa: i don't think slush sends subcent bits.
1796 2011-01-09 23:59:39 <sipa> nanotube: no he doesn't
1797 2011-01-09 23:59:40 <luke-jr> sipa: nope, unfortunately
1798 2011-01-09 23:59:57 <luke-jr> sipa: that's the circular balance slush scams