1 2011-01-11 00:00:32 lzsaver has left ()
   2 2011-01-11 00:02:51 <LobsterMan> ArtForz what is your aggregate hashrate up to now?
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  14 2011-01-11 00:46:43 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
  15 2011-01-11 00:46:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102024 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 791 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 0 hours, 11 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17753.83714873
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  21 2011-01-11 01:16:30 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
  22 2011-01-11 01:16:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.329,"low":0.3175,"vol":10356,"buy":0.325,"sell":0.329,"last":0.3266}}
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  27 2011-01-11 01:33:40 <da2ce7> is the mtgox down?
  28 2011-01-11 01:33:44 <da2ce7> er...
  29 2011-01-11 01:33:47 <da2ce7> cert
  30 2011-01-11 01:33:55 <da2ce7> https is asking me for verfication
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  34 2011-01-11 01:41:32 <luke-jr> does anyone know where the current qbitcoin code is?
  35 2011-01-11 01:42:52 <tcatm> afaik there's been no release yet
  36 2011-01-11 01:43:00 <luke-jr> not even git?
  37 2011-01-11 01:43:39 <tcatm> not that I know
  38 2011-01-11 01:45:38 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
  39 2011-01-11 02:05:03 molec has joined
  40 2011-01-11 02:05:14 <molec> ;;bc,blocks
  41 2011-01-11 02:05:15 <gribble> 102035
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  53 2011-01-11 02:40:18 <luke-jr> if I'm reading https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script right, what stops me from creating tx from other accounts that simply omit sig checking?
  54 2011-01-11 02:46:50 <tcatm> luke-jr: try it on testnet
  55 2011-01-11 02:47:02 <luke-jr> why testnet? :p
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  59 2011-01-11 02:47:20 <tcatm> that's what testnet is for
  60 2011-01-11 02:47:48 <luke-jr> if it works, is it legit? :p
  61 2011-01-11 02:48:05 <luke-jr> or are there implied rules besides "what works"?
  62 2011-01-11 02:48:39 <tcatm> I don't know much about script. No idea what happens.
  63 2011-01-11 02:48:54 <luke-jr> I can't imagine it would work, I just want to know why not
  64 2011-01-11 02:48:58 <luke-jr> what's missing from the specs
  65 2011-01-11 02:50:15 <tcatm> You're talking about the OP_CHECKSIG in txout, right?
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  71 2011-01-11 03:08:31 <spacemagic> whats the command for calculating how long it takes you to generate a block?
  72 2011-01-11 03:11:23 <da2ce7> it is ;;bc,calc 500000
  73 2011-01-11 03:11:39 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 1000000
  74 2011-01-11 03:11:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 19 hours, 27 minutes, and 20 seconds
  75 2011-01-11 03:14:43 <spacemagic> thanks!
  76 2011-01-11 03:15:02 <spacemagic> ;;bc,calc 5000
  77 2011-01-11 03:15:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 23 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 7 minutes, and 1 second
  78 2011-01-11 03:15:12 <spacemagic> Ha!
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  81 2011-01-11 03:20:28 <nanotube> spacemagic: might consider joining the ,,pool
  82 2011-01-11 03:20:29 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
  83 2011-01-11 03:20:48 <nanotube> spacemagic: or saving money on electricity, and using the savings to buy btc. which would probably net you more btc :)
  84 2011-01-11 03:20:58 <nanotube> unless you have pretty cheap elec
  85 2011-01-11 03:34:32 aximilat1on has joined
  86 2011-01-11 03:38:02 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 2100000
  87 2011-01-11 03:38:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 9 hours, 15 minutes, and 52 seconds
  88 2011-01-11 03:38:07 <brocktice> sounds about right
  89 2011-01-11 03:38:23 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 2470000
  90 2011-01-11 03:38:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2470000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 7 hours, 52 minutes, and 36 seconds
  91 2011-01-11 03:38:29 <brocktice> heck yeah
  92 2011-01-11 03:39:07 <sneak> ;;bc,calc 600000
  93 2011-01-11 03:39:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 day, 8 hours, 25 minutes, and 33 seconds
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  95 2011-01-11 03:40:07 <brocktice> sneak: you're air cooling with the stock cooler, right?
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  97 2011-01-11 03:41:19 <brocktice> potatoes?
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 100 2011-01-11 03:44:44 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 1000000000
 101 2011-01-11 03:44:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 minute and 10 seconds
 102 2011-01-11 03:44:54 <brocktice> heh
 103 2011-01-11 03:44:55 <luke-jr> mmm I need a CPU that can do that
 104 2011-01-11 03:45:09 <brocktice> that'll be the AMD Radeon HD 9000+
 105 2011-01-11 03:45:12 <brocktice> (it's over 9000)
 106 2011-01-11 03:45:34 <luke-jr> CPU, not GPU
 107 2011-01-11 03:45:42 <brocktice> meh
 108 2011-01-11 03:45:50 <brocktice> AMD Fusion 9000+
 109 2011-01-11 03:49:33 <da2ce7> or just a AMD cpu with a 2xSHA256/clock dedicated logic... it would only be 3M transitors.  (what are they now? 975Million or something)
 110 2011-01-11 03:52:48 <luke-jr> why AMD only? XD
 111 2011-01-11 03:53:07 <luke-jr> are proof-of-works only SHA256s?
 112 2011-01-11 03:55:54 <kartofeln> I think so.. sha256(sha256(old junk + nounce)) < somevalue. that's the whole proof of work I believe.
 113 2011-01-11 03:57:05 AAA_awright_ has joined
 114 2011-01-11 03:59:13 <luke-jr> O.o
 115 2011-01-11 03:59:51 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 116 2011-01-11 04:04:08 <tcatm> anyone know how the account code handles non-ascii characters?
 117 2011-01-11 04:09:16 da2ce7 has quit ()
 118 2011-01-11 04:09:30 <luke-jr> tcatm: what account code?
 119 2011-01-11 04:09:39 <luke-jr> you mean the client-side "account" label?
 120 2011-01-11 04:09:45 <luke-jr> (which never sees the network)
 121 2011-01-11 04:10:08 <luke-jr> if so, that stuff is broken at least for RPC
 122 2011-01-11 04:11:23 <tcatm> luke-jr: that stuff is still beta, that's different from broken
 123 2011-01-11 04:14:26 <alowm> amd's ceo just resigned
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 128 2011-01-11 04:30:20 <luke-jr> alowm: why?
 129 2011-01-11 04:30:37 <luke-jr> tcatm: no, beta is merely "might be broken; find out"
 130 2011-01-11 04:30:47 <luke-jr> tcatm: in this case, it IS broken
 131 2011-01-11 04:32:29 dirtyfilthy has joined
 132 2011-01-11 04:33:34 <dirtyfilthy> when the base58 hash is made of a bitcoin public key, what exactly is being hashed? the key in DER format, or the key in whatever krazy internal format openssl uses?
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 139 2011-01-11 04:45:52 <beetlejooce> ;;bc,calc 1
 140 2011-01-11 04:45:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 2220 years, 49 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, 52 minutes, and 30 seconds
 141 2011-01-11 04:46:10 <beetlejooce> :}D
 142 2011-01-11 04:46:46 <mrb_> look at this
 143 2011-01-11 04:46:50 <mrb_> ;;bc,calc 0
 144 2011-01-11 04:46:50 <gribble> Error: float division
 145 2011-01-11 04:47:24 <beetlejooce> ;;bc,calc .1
 146 2011-01-11 04:47:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .1 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 22209 years, 29 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 45 minutes, and 9 seconds
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 152 2011-01-11 04:54:44 <beeplejoot> hmm
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 159 2011-01-11 05:23:26 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 300000
 160 2011-01-11 05:23:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 2 days, 16 hours, 51 minutes, and 7 seconds
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 181 2011-01-11 06:57:11 <xelister> "AMD CEO - Dirk Meyer - resigns"
 182 2011-01-11 06:57:22 <xelister> I guess I'm not the only one using Ati binary drivers, huh?!
 183 2011-01-11 07:01:33 <lfm> that must be it
 184 2011-01-11 07:01:48 <xelister> definatelly
 185 2011-01-11 07:02:08 <xelister> he was like... no, I'm not making THAT shit needed to use  our new cpu+gpu
 186 2011-01-11 07:13:07 Zarutian has joined
 187 2011-01-11 07:14:31 <lfm> xelister I know, I know. I can apply the outstanding security patches to ubuntu cuz the ati driver quits working
 188 2011-01-11 07:14:39 <lfm> cant
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 191 2011-01-11 07:37:52 <nathan7> lfm: D:
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 195 2011-01-11 07:48:51 <sipa> ;;bc,mtgox
 196 2011-01-11 07:48:52 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.329,"low":0.3266,"vol":2453,"buy":0.325,"sell":0.329,"last":0.3266}}
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 217 2011-01-11 09:35:57 <davout> hey
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 232 2011-01-11 11:39:57 * molec is seeing 1.7mhash/s from a g98 using pocblm
 233 2011-01-11 11:40:01 <molec> does that sound right?
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 238 2011-01-11 12:40:10 <sipa> ;;bc,mtgox
 239 2011-01-11 12:40:11 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.329,"low":0.3266,"vol":2836,"buy":0.325,"sell":0.329,"last":0.3266}}
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 243 2011-01-11 12:44:43 <xelister> slow day today on irc?
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 246 2011-01-11 13:13:24 <slush> ;;bc,mtgox
 247 2011-01-11 13:13:25 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.329,"low":0.3266,"vol":2836,"buy":0.325,"sell":0.329,"last":0.3266}}
 248 2011-01-11 13:14:23 Ivy has joined
 249 2011-01-11 13:14:35 <Ivy> hi
 250 2011-01-11 13:14:55 <Ivy> i posted a bitcoin image onmy FB
 251 2011-01-11 13:15:06 <Ivy> and a friend is telling me it's illegal
 252 2011-01-11 13:15:17 <Ivy> I answered with "what's illegal"
 253 2011-01-11 13:15:32 <Ivy> He goes... "it's not a legal tender... they'll come and get you"
 254 2011-01-11 13:16:34 <Ivy> Question : can you send a link or any legal backing that I can forward? People will be reading that dialog.. and I want to show something legit... even though I'm in search of it my self... HELP
 255 2011-01-11 13:17:38 <davout> Ivy: he's wrong, also burden of proof is on him
 256 2011-01-11 13:18:18 <Ivy> well I'm about to tell him one can buy it sell it on the market (where's the link for that) or just convert it into dollars
 257 2011-01-11 13:18:33 <davout> the link for what ?
 258 2011-01-11 13:18:36 <davout> an exchange place ?
 259 2011-01-11 13:18:40 <Ivy> but I'm still looking for a back up links/sites / and legal info that talks about private money ...
 260 2011-01-11 13:19:12 <Ivy> Well yeah... I know the value of a Bitcoin was 6cents and then went to 50c and then back to 6c
 261 2011-01-11 13:19:35 <Ivy> but I don't know yet where exactly you can buy it or sell it...
 262 2011-01-11 13:20:03 <davout> http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/4682.aspx
 263 2011-01-11 13:20:08 <davout> US or Europe ?
 264 2011-01-11 13:20:20 <davout> if you're in the US go for mtgox.com
 265 2011-01-11 13:20:26 <davout> else go to ibtcoin-central.net
 266 2011-01-11 13:20:30 <davout> bitcoin-central.net*
 267 2011-01-11 13:20:43 <Ivy> oh right...
 268 2011-01-11 13:20:45 <Ivy> tnx
 269 2011-01-11 13:20:47 <Ivy> btw
 270 2011-01-11 13:21:14 <Ivy> would it be correct to say that this is international currency .... or is electronic currency better?
 271 2011-01-11 13:21:26 <arcatan> you friend is probably right in the sense that bitcoin is not a legal tender the same way as foreign currencies aren't
 272 2011-01-11 13:21:46 <davout> yep
 273 2011-01-11 13:21:48 <Ivy> yeah ... so what do I call the bitcoin- commodity ?
 274 2011-01-11 13:21:54 <davout> not being legal tender does not mean illegal
 275 2011-01-11 13:21:59 <Ivy> It's not really a commodity - it is virtual...
 276 2011-01-11 13:22:01 <davout> you can call it a currency
 277 2011-01-11 13:22:22 <davout> computing power can be a commodity, it can be used to perform tasks
 278 2011-01-11 13:22:38 <davout> the fact that its virtual is irrelevant
 279 2011-01-11 13:23:05 <Ivy> ok so what do I say to his 'scare off concern'
 280 2011-01-11 13:23:06 <Ivy> ?
 281 2011-01-11 13:23:26 <davout> "don't be scared baby"
 282 2011-01-11 13:23:34 <Ivy> heheheh
 283 2011-01-11 13:23:37 <davout> there isn't anything to be scared about
 284 2011-01-11 13:23:58 <davout> it's not illegal, so he should chill down or you should review your friends list :)
 285 2011-01-11 13:24:07 <Ivy> well I don't want to defend my self...only... I want him to read more but not sure what to post first...
 286 2011-01-11 13:24:19 <davout> just send him that link
 287 2011-01-11 13:24:27 <Ivy> If I thought it was illegal I wouldn't be braggin abou it on my fb
 288 2011-01-11 13:25:43 <davout> that would be making the assumption that are intelligent
 289 2011-01-11 13:25:52 <davout> which you probably are
 290 2011-01-11 13:26:07 <davout> but that kind of argument isn't very convincing
 291 2011-01-11 13:26:12 <davout> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_currency
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 295 2011-01-11 13:44:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: you here?
 296 2011-01-11 13:52:07 <ArtForzZz> ya, y?
 297 2011-01-11 13:52:10 <Ivy> hey yes.. sorry was to busy
 298 2011-01-11 13:52:16 <Ivy> ok here's what I wrote...
 299 2011-01-11 13:52:37 <Ivy> In the US and few other countries private currencies are legal. So not being a legal tender is not illegal, only opposite of the fiat currency.  What's nice about it is that Bitcoin is not really private currency  as it's based on the Open Source decentralized "cloud" volunteer community... so I'm not sure coming after me will be of any help to the Big Brother... Think bit-torrent hosting community...
 300 2011-01-11 13:56:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: okay I got an idea
 301 2011-01-11 13:57:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: take a blank x16 card, put a bunch of pci-e power connectors on it, 8 phases of VRM, and a pci-e bridge chip
 302 2011-01-11 13:57:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: and put four connectors on it parallel to the mobo.
 303 2011-01-11 13:57:51 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: then take four 40mm wide cards that plug into those connectors, and on each, put a 6970 and it's ram
 304 2011-01-11 13:58:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: and then put heatsinks all over it
 305 2011-01-11 13:58:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: plug those cards into the main card, put two 40mm fans at the ass end
 306 2011-01-11 13:58:20 <Diablo-D3> and tada
 307 2011-01-11 13:58:27 <Diablo-D3> the most powerful pile of shit ever
 308 2011-01-11 14:00:01 <ArtForzZz> *shrug*
 309 2011-01-11 14:01:12 <ArtForzZz> probably wont have enough fin area to cool those chips
 310 2011-01-11 14:01:33 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
 311 2011-01-11 14:01:39 <Diablo-D3> well thats what I was thinking
 312 2011-01-11 14:01:40 <Diablo-D3> so what you do
 313 2011-01-11 14:01:59 <Diablo-D3> is put, say, half size full copper heatsinks on the memory
 314 2011-01-11 14:02:08 <Diablo-D3> then a half size finned heatpipe on the gpu
 315 2011-01-11 14:02:12 <Diablo-D3> with like two pipes in it
 316 2011-01-11 14:02:24 <Diablo-D3> and go from fan side the whole way to the vents
 317 2011-01-11 14:03:01 <ArtForz> hurrm
 318 2011-01-11 14:03:18 <Diablo-D3> so the heat comes off the pipes at the ass end
 319 2011-01-11 14:03:40 <Diablo-D3> and then leave a gap between the gpu and the fans for vrm heatsinks that stick out and shit
 320 2011-01-11 14:03:51 <Diablo-D3> so it'd be a double 6990 or so
 321 2011-01-11 14:03:55 <Diablo-D3> in 2 wide.
 322 2011-01-11 14:04:04 <Diablo-D3> and it'd take every single ounce of power possible
 323 2011-01-11 14:04:49 <ArtForz> whats the point of that crazy density?
 324 2011-01-11 14:05:04 <Diablo-D3> because people will buy it.
 325 2011-01-11 14:05:21 <ArtForz> errr... I doubt it
 326 2011-01-11 14:06:31 <ArtForz> just take a stock 5970 or 5990, slap on a bigger vapor chamber or heatpipe cooler, a shroud over the whole thing and put 2 40mm fans on the ass end
 327 2011-01-11 14:06:34 <Diablo-D3> also, this means up to 16 gpus in a conventional machine
 328 2011-01-11 14:06:53 <Diablo-D3> assuming you can power the fucking thing
 329 2011-01-11 14:08:18 <ArtForz> you could probably even lose the vapor chamber and just use a 4-5mm copper base plate
 330 2011-01-11 14:09:01 <Diablo-D3> still
 331 2011-01-11 14:09:05 <Diablo-D3> this could be some epic shit
 332 2011-01-11 14:09:26 <ArtForz> and totally custom = hella expensive
 333 2011-01-11 14:09:50 <ArtForz> modified cooler on ref PCBs is a lot cheaper
 334 2011-01-11 14:10:28 <Diablo-D3> well the alternative is
 335 2011-01-11 14:10:40 <Diablo-D3> produce normal PCBs that...
 336 2011-01-11 14:10:46 <Diablo-D3> fit on both sides of the channel
 337 2011-01-11 14:10:51 <Diablo-D3> so the left one is reversed
 338 2011-01-11 14:11:06 <Diablo-D3> and the pci-e pins are one socket's worth up higher
 339 2011-01-11 14:11:28 <Diablo-D3> and then you slam both of those down on a connector board that has two pcie plugs
 340 2011-01-11 14:11:35 <Diablo-D3> with a pcie bridge chip
 341 2011-01-11 14:11:39 <Diablo-D3> and then that plugs into the mobo
 342 2011-01-11 14:12:19 <Diablo-D3> or put the bridge chip on the right board and send a cable over
 343 2011-01-11 14:12:27 <Diablo-D3> you know, insert solution that makes sense here
 344 2011-01-11 14:12:45 <Diablo-D3> and then with your left facing and right facing boards
 345 2011-01-11 14:12:48 <Diablo-D3> put heatsinks all over them
 346 2011-01-11 14:12:54 <Diablo-D3> but make sure the fins are every other spot
 347 2011-01-11 14:13:04 <Diablo-D3> so when you put them together they interlock
 348 2011-01-11 14:13:31 <Diablo-D3> and then BAM
 349 2011-01-11 14:13:36 <Diablo-D3> instant double 6990
 350 2011-01-11 14:14:02 <Diablo-D3> but you still need like 6 phase VRMs on both cards
 351 2011-01-11 14:14:06 <Diablo-D3> and a bunch of plugs
 352 2011-01-11 14:20:06 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: is that too insane?
 353 2011-01-11 14:20:43 <molecular> Ivy, exchange bitcoins at http://www.mtgox.com/
 354 2011-01-11 14:20:52 <ArtForz> guess it could work
 355 2011-01-11 14:21:13 <Ivy> yeah ... Im on it... reading...
 356 2011-01-11 14:21:54 <ArtForz> basically create a nearly 2-slot cooler with lengthwise fins with decent spacing, put in every 2nd card backwards or upside down so the fin combs interlock
 357 2011-01-11 14:22:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yup
 358 2011-01-11 14:22:19 <Diablo-D3> you'd just need to mutate the pci-e connector
 359 2011-01-11 14:22:47 <ArtForz> not really
 360 2011-01-11 14:23:31 gavinandresen has joined
 361 2011-01-11 14:23:48 <gavinandresen> davout: ping?
 362 2011-01-11 14:24:05 <ArtForz> if every 2nd card is upside down you could just create a board with 4 PCIe connectors in 2 slot spacing, a 48 lane bridge doing 16 -> 4*8 and a cable down to mainboard
 363 2011-01-11 14:24:30 <molecular> guys, quick question? is 1.7mhash/s normal for nvidia g98? or is sth wrong with my setup?
 364 2011-01-11 14:25:11 <ArtForz> sounds about right
 365 2011-01-11 14:25:29 <ArtForz> g98 only has 8 shaders
 366 2011-01-11 14:25:38 <molecular> ArtForz: thx, so there's a huge difference in computing-power between different cards?
 367 2011-01-11 14:25:44 <ArtForz> yep
 368 2011-01-11 14:25:56 <ArtForz> g98 = 8 shaders @ 1.3-1.4GHz
 369 2011-01-11 14:25:56 <molecular> thanks a lot. that helped.
 370 2011-01-11 14:26:06 <ArtForz> GF100 = 480 shaders
 371 2011-01-11 14:26:13 <davout> gavinandersen: pong
 372 2011-01-11 14:26:17 <molecular> allright
 373 2011-01-11 14:26:19 <ArtForz> ati HD5870 = 1600 shaders @ 850MHz
 374 2011-01-11 14:26:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ooh four
 375 2011-01-11 14:26:37 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: that could work
 376 2011-01-11 14:26:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wait
 377 2011-01-11 14:26:54 <molecular> artforz: does that means paralellizing using opencl >8 "threads" does do no good with only 8 shaders?
 378 2011-01-11 14:26:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how would that work?
 379 2011-01-11 14:27:10 <ArtForz> how would what work?
 380 2011-01-11 14:27:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, the pci-e connectors would still have to be short
 381 2011-01-11 14:27:32 <Diablo-D3> so they plug into a bridge board
 382 2011-01-11 14:27:51 <ArtForz> I was thinking put the bottom 4 cards normally on the mainboard
 383 2011-01-11 14:27:59 <ArtForz> you'd have to go XL-ATX to fit that
 384 2011-01-11 14:28:24 <Diablo-D3> who said four cards
 385 2011-01-11 14:28:26 <Diablo-D3> its just two
 386 2011-01-11 14:28:33 <ArtForz> actually it's 8
 387 2011-01-11 14:28:43 <Diablo-D3> 2 for every 2 wide slot.
 388 2011-01-11 14:28:50 <ArtForz> yep
 389 2011-01-11 14:29:02 <Diablo-D3> you cant plug them into the mobo because the spacing would have to be EXACT
 390 2011-01-11 14:29:07 <ArtForz> so?
 391 2011-01-11 14:29:15 <Diablo-D3> as in
 392 2011-01-11 14:29:20 <Diablo-D3> x16 x16
 393 2011-01-11 14:29:23 <Diablo-D3> right next to each other
 394 2011-01-11 14:29:30 <Diablo-D3> and holy shit imagine trying to plug that in
 395 2011-01-11 14:29:39 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 396 2011-01-11 14:29:43 <ArtForz> you'd need x16 x16 ? x16 ? x16 ? x16 ?
 397 2011-01-11 14:29:56 <ArtForz> and yes, thats 9 slots
 398 2011-01-11 14:30:01 <Diablo-D3> no I mean
 399 2011-01-11 14:30:03 <Diablo-D3> you'd need
 400 2011-01-11 14:30:07 <Diablo-D3> one right next to the other
 401 2011-01-11 14:30:12 <ArtForz> why?
 402 2011-01-11 14:30:15 <Diablo-D3> two cards?
 403 2011-01-11 14:30:28 <ArtForz> hurrrrm
 404 2011-01-11 14:30:33 <Diablo-D3> if you dont have the bridge board at the bottom you need two physical slots
 405 2011-01-11 14:30:39 <ArtForz> yep
 406 2011-01-11 14:30:39 <Diablo-D3> right next to each ther
 407 2011-01-11 14:30:42 <ArtForz> well... no
 408 2011-01-11 14:30:43 <Diablo-D3> and a lot of boards dont have that
 409 2011-01-11 14:31:13 <Diablo-D3> so short changing it with a bridge board would work
 410 2011-01-11 14:31:22 <ArtForz> the physical slot for the 2ndary cards is outside
 411 2011-01-11 14:31:36 <Diablo-D3> you mean inside
 412 2011-01-11 14:31:45 <ArtForz> no
 413 2011-01-11 14:31:49 <Diablo-D3> wait
 414 2011-01-11 14:31:54 <Diablo-D3> if the upside down slot is upsidedown
 415 2011-01-11 14:31:57 <Diablo-D3> err
 416 2011-01-11 14:32:00 * Diablo-D3 smacks self
 417 2011-01-11 14:32:01 <ArtForz> yep
 418 2011-01-11 14:32:05 <Diablo-D3> if the upside down slot is short
 419 2011-01-11 14:32:15 <Diablo-D3> you use the bridge board ON THE TOP
 420 2011-01-11 14:32:21 <ArtForz> yep
 421 2011-01-11 14:32:39 <ArtForz> and just run a cable down on one end to a free x16 slot
 422 2011-01-11 14:32:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no no
 423 2011-01-11 14:32:50 <Diablo-D3> I got it even better
 424 2011-01-11 14:33:02 <Diablo-D3> wait
 425 2011-01-11 14:33:03 <Diablo-D3> maybe you do
 426 2011-01-11 14:33:12 <Diablo-D3> put the bridge on the top for _both cards_
 427 2011-01-11 14:33:19 <ArtForz> that would also work
 428 2011-01-11 14:33:20 <Diablo-D3> and then just plug it in with a cable
 429 2011-01-11 14:33:26 <ArtForz> yep
 430 2011-01-11 14:33:29 <Diablo-D3> infact, that could be superior anyhow
 431 2011-01-11 14:33:36 <Diablo-D3> built in cable allows you to plug it in anywhere
 432 2011-01-11 14:33:50 <Diablo-D3> it wouldnt have to be over the slot
 433 2011-01-11 14:33:52 <Diablo-D3> but that'd be weird
 434 2011-01-11 14:34:01 <Diablo-D3> and probably they wouldnt let me sell it
 435 2011-01-11 14:34:01 <ArtForz> you'd be a few mm offset to a normal slot, but who cares
 436 2011-01-11 14:34:17 <Diablo-D3> although if I just leave the cable in there
 437 2011-01-11 14:34:26 <Diablo-D3> I could just make it part of the housing
 438 2011-01-11 14:34:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw
 439 2011-01-11 14:34:41 <Diablo-D3> theres a small problem
 440 2011-01-11 14:34:47 <Diablo-D3> where do I plug the pcie plugs in?
 441 2011-01-11 14:34:49 <Diablo-D3> if I take up the top
 442 2011-01-11 14:35:07 <ArtForz> look at where the PCIe connector is and where the power plugs are
 443 2011-01-11 14:35:15 <Diablo-D3> they're only slightly offset
 444 2011-01-11 14:35:16 <ArtForz> they're at different ends of the cards
 445 2011-01-11 14:35:28 <Diablo-D3> they're not if I have two sided pcie.
 446 2011-01-11 14:35:41 <ArtForz> the top card is upside down, not backwards
 447 2011-01-11 14:36:02 <Diablo-D3> yes, but pcie connectors are top loading
 448 2011-01-11 14:36:06 <ArtForz> so?
 449 2011-01-11 14:36:24 <Diablo-D3> btw, this could actually be solved
 450 2011-01-11 14:36:32 <Diablo-D3> the bridge board would have pass through connectors
 451 2011-01-11 14:36:36 <ArtForz> yep
 452 2011-01-11 14:36:47 <Diablo-D3> so you plug them into the middle of the bridge
 453 2011-01-11 14:36:52 <Diablo-D3> and then the cards just plug into the bridge
 454 2011-01-11 14:36:55 <ArtForz> you'd have to run a cable for power up to the bridge board from the 2ndary card
 455 2011-01-11 14:36:55 <Diablo-D3> and its just a dummy connector
 456 2011-01-11 14:37:09 <ArtForz> for primary you can just plug in directly
 457 2011-01-11 14:37:12 <Diablo-D3> well no
 458 2011-01-11 14:37:15 <Diablo-D3> you'd use it for both
 459 2011-01-11 14:37:22 <Diablo-D3> since both cards would be fabbed exactly alike
 460 2011-01-11 14:37:43 <Diablo-D3> they wouldnt stick out at the top, they'd face internally
 461 2011-01-11 14:37:52 <ArtForz> yep
 462 2011-01-11 14:37:56 <Diablo-D3> so just use cables on both
 463 2011-01-11 14:38:21 <ArtForz> and then you dont need to to use the bulky mini-fit jr. housings
 464 2011-01-11 14:38:31 <Diablo-D3> the what?
 465 2011-01-11 14:38:44 <ArtForz> mini-fit jr.
 466 2011-01-11 14:39:04 <Diablo-D3> woah those have names?
 467 2011-01-11 14:39:08 <ArtForz> yep
 468 2011-01-11 14:39:10 <ArtForz> thats the contact housing type used for PCIe power, ATX, EPS, ...
 469 2011-01-11 14:39:16 <Diablo-D3> hah
 470 2011-01-11 14:39:22 <Diablo-D3> I just call them pcie power plugs
 471 2011-01-11 14:39:57 <ArtForz> anyways, theres connectors with similar current ratings that take up less than 1/3 the space
 472 2011-01-11 14:40:23 <Diablo-D3> yeah but those cost more
 473 2011-01-11 14:40:25 <EvanR-work> almost 15G in the pool
 474 2011-01-11 14:40:33 <ArtForz> not really much more
 475 2011-01-11 14:40:34 <Diablo-D3> you'd just need like 1 inch cables
 476 2011-01-11 14:40:45 <Diablo-D3> yeah but these are already common for the assembly line
 477 2011-01-11 14:41:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, we're even still over thinking this
 478 2011-01-11 14:41:27 <Diablo-D3> we dont need 2 pcie
 479 2011-01-11 14:41:29 <Diablo-D3> we need one
 480 2011-01-11 14:41:36 <Diablo-D3> and then use TWO cables.
 481 2011-01-11 14:42:03 <Diablo-D3> or not even two
 482 2011-01-11 14:42:11 <Diablo-D3> wait yes two
 483 2011-01-11 14:42:13 <Diablo-D3> fawk
 484 2011-01-11 14:42:18 <ArtForz> yup, 2
 485 2011-01-11 14:42:25 <Diablo-D3> I cant figure out how to route it
 486 2011-01-11 14:42:28 <Diablo-D3> oh wait
 487 2011-01-11 14:42:29 <Diablo-D3> yes I can
 488 2011-01-11 14:42:43 <Diablo-D3> the right of the "card" plugs into the mobo
 489 2011-01-11 14:42:51 <Diablo-D3> the left card points _down_
 490 2011-01-11 14:43:07 <Diablo-D3> cable loops up to the bridge
 491 2011-01-11 14:43:18 <Diablo-D3> then the right card plugs into the bridge directly
 492 2011-01-11 14:43:31 <Diablo-D3> and then the bridge sends a cable over the right card and then down to the plug
 493 2011-01-11 14:43:44 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 494 2011-01-11 14:43:58 <EvanR-work> so the fast the pool gets, the faster i get coins from it, given constant hash rate
 495 2011-01-11 14:44:01 <EvanR-work> fastser*
 496 2011-01-11 14:44:20 <ArtForz> well... you get less coins more often
 497 2011-01-11 14:44:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: then again, the left card's loop could be on the inside
 498 2011-01-11 14:44:37 <Diablo-D3> by seeing if anyone makes a cabled pci-e extender
 499 2011-01-11 14:44:42 <Diablo-D3> instead of ribbon
 500 2011-01-11 14:44:58 <EvanR-work> ArtForz: yeah, but your average rate doesnt go up?
 501 2011-01-11 14:45:18 <ArtForz> nope
 502 2011-01-11 14:45:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: actually, if we could move the pci-e plug altogether, we'd be better off
 503 2011-01-11 14:45:35 <Diablo-D3> actually
 504 2011-01-11 14:45:39 <Diablo-D3> thats the trick I think
 505 2011-01-11 14:45:43 <Diablo-D3> cards only need like x4
 506 2011-01-11 14:45:48 <EvanR-work> ah so in the pool, i just plug my hash rate into the difficulty 32 formula to get my average coin rate
 507 2011-01-11 14:46:03 <ArtForz> yep
 508 2011-01-11 14:46:03 <Diablo-D3> plug the data pins of the bus into existing compatible cables
 509 2011-01-11 14:46:17 <Diablo-D3> at the end of the card, near the vents
 510 2011-01-11 14:46:23 <Diablo-D3> and then plug into the bridge
 511 2011-01-11 14:46:38 <Diablo-D3> or something
 512 2011-01-11 14:48:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: because you cant route the top pcie lines
 513 2011-01-11 14:48:12 <Diablo-D3> the whole board is designed them for coming in the bottom
 514 2011-01-11 14:48:29 <Diablo-D3> so its easier to subvert the pins and move them up a few mm and do something else with them
 515 2011-01-11 14:49:22 nathan7 has joined
 516 2011-01-11 14:49:35 <Diablo-D3> hrrm
 517 2011-01-11 14:49:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I wonder if the pci-e ribbons COULD be rounded
 518 2011-01-11 14:49:48 <Diablo-D3> they seem pretty thick
 519 2011-01-11 14:51:01 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 520 2011-01-11 14:51:24 <ArtForz> they're really not
 521 2011-01-11 14:51:39 <ArtForz> the cable iself is thin, the shielding is kinda bulky
 522 2011-01-11 14:52:17 <Diablo-D3> the bridge would still be better on the bottom though
 523 2011-01-11 14:54:04 <Diablo-D3> they make completely plastic right angle adapters
 524 2011-01-11 14:54:31 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
 525 2011-01-11 14:54:42 <Diablo-D3> so you'd plug that into the end of the bridge board at the bottom
 526 2011-01-11 14:54:51 <Diablo-D3> then right above it would be the left card
 527 2011-01-11 14:55:06 <Diablo-D3> so when you shove down on the left card, it shoves down on the right angle connector
 528 2011-01-11 14:55:19 <Diablo-D3> using the plastic frame around it
 529 2011-01-11 14:56:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ooh I figured it out
 530 2011-01-11 14:56:21 skeledrew has joined
 531 2011-01-11 14:56:34 <Diablo-D3> so taking that bottom bridge + right angle connector
 532 2011-01-11 14:56:45 <Diablo-D3> you put a mobo connector on both boards
 533 2011-01-11 14:57:11 <Diablo-D3> the left one plugs into ANOTHER right angle connector
 534 2011-01-11 14:57:14 <Diablo-D3> on the top of the bridge board
 535 2011-01-11 14:57:19 <Diablo-D3> the other one plugs in using a cable.
 536 2011-01-11 14:57:42 <Diablo-D3> so, ONE cable.
 537 2011-01-11 15:01:40 <Diablo-D3> clearly Ive gone insane.
 538 2011-01-11 15:08:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: maybe this is just a bad idea
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 573 2011-01-11 17:20:06 <LobsterMan> ArtForz what is your aggregate hashrate up to now?
 574 2011-01-11 17:20:17 <ArtForz> 16.5Ghps
 575 2011-01-11 17:20:35 <LobsterMan> heh the pool is approaching that
 576 2011-01-11 17:20:45 <ArtForz> yup
 577 2011-01-11 17:21:25 <LobsterMan> are you going to be expanding your gpu farm any more?
 578 2011-01-11 17:21:31 <ArtForz> nope
 579 2011-01-11 17:25:10 <LobsterMan> it's 6 blocks to confirm a transaction, correct?
 580 2011-01-11 17:25:28 <ArtForz> yeah, 6 is what the stock client uses for display
 581 2011-01-11 17:25:30 asherkin has quit (Quit: Bye.)
 582 2011-01-11 17:33:10 * sipa estimates current total hashing speed at 134GH/s
 583 2011-01-11 17:37:07 <donpdonp> its a gigahash or a jigahash? (back to the future :)
 584 2011-01-11 17:37:28 <UukGoblin> is gribble down or were the really no mtgox trades today?
 585 2011-01-11 17:37:29 <Diablo-D3> *jigga
 586 2011-01-11 17:37:57 <Diablo-D3> and there isnt 1.21 of them
 587 2011-01-11 17:37:58 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 588 2011-01-11 17:38:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102140 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 675 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 4 hours, 52 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17837.15595720
 589 2011-01-11 17:38:01 <LobsterMan> i guess no trades
 590 2011-01-11 17:38:33 <sipa> so we just define the prefix jigga- to mean 110*10^9
 591 2011-01-11 17:38:41 <sipa> and we're at 1.21 jiggahash!
 592 2011-01-11 17:40:07 <tcatm> UukGoblin, LobsterMan: gribble is down, see: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html
 593 2011-01-11 17:40:49 * LobsterMan slaps nanotube around with a heavy metal pole
 594 2011-01-11 17:40:50 * bitbot starts headbanging
 595 2011-01-11 17:40:52 <LobsterMan> fix it!
 596 2011-01-11 17:44:43 <luke-jr> "jigga" is merely the SI pronunciation for "giga"
 597 2011-01-11 17:45:07 <sipa> no
 598 2011-01-11 17:45:12 <Diablo-D3> no
 599 2011-01-11 17:45:16 <sipa> it's a deliberate mistake in the movie
 600 2011-01-11 17:45:21 <sipa> because it sounded cool :)
 601 2011-01-11 17:45:24 <Diablo-D3> well, its not even a mistake
 602 2011-01-11 17:45:39 <Diablo-D3> it CAN be a correct pronunciation given enough bullshit.
 603 2011-01-11 17:45:47 <sipa> hehe
 604 2011-01-11 17:45:59 <Diablo-D3> someone wrote a lengthy article about it and I cant find it
 605 2011-01-11 17:55:39 devon_hillard_ has joined
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 611 2011-01-11 18:13:23 TD has joined
 612 2011-01-11 18:26:56 <luke-jr> go check a dictionary from that timeframe ;)
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 620 2011-01-11 19:06:23 <midnightmagic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga-#Pronunciation <- I think it's an Americanism from the US National Bureau of Standards.
 621 2011-01-11 19:07:23 <pidpawel> have anyone tried generating bitcoins on ps3?
 622 2011-01-11 19:08:40 <mizerydearia> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qID7Jsu1K0s
 623 2011-01-11 19:09:06 <luke-jr> pidpawel: not sure if anyone's done it, but it would be crap
 624 2011-01-11 19:09:38 <pidpawel> why?
 625 2011-01-11 19:10:07 <luke-jr> because it's CPU+SPUs combined would be less than a good GPU?
 626 2011-01-11 19:11:00 <ArtForz> even less than a really mediocre GPU
 627 2011-01-11 19:12:38 <pidpawel> ok. do you happen to know whether mobile ati gpu's have opencl support?
 628 2011-01-11 19:12:57 <ArtForz> well, if they're 4xxx or 5xxx based, yes
 629 2011-01-11 19:12:58 <luke-jr> afaik it's not a chipset function, but a driver thing
 630 2011-01-11 19:13:11 <luke-jr> and no free drivers do yet unless for some bleeding edge code
 631 2011-01-11 19:13:43 <pidpawel> i will try downloading newest drivers for my 5650 card.
 632 2011-01-11 19:13:49 <ArtForz> yes yes, nonfree drivers eat kittens
 633 2011-01-11 19:14:31 <Diablo-D3> what, the fusion?
 634 2011-01-11 19:14:42 <Diablo-D3> they're 5xxx
 635 2011-01-11 19:14:51 <Diablo-D3> but its only supposed to be as powerful as an IGP
 636 2011-01-11 19:14:56 <Diablo-D3> its meant to be an atom killer
 637 2011-01-11 19:15:18 <ArtForz> Mobile 5650 is a redwood core -> same as discrete HD5670 just lower clock
 638 2011-01-11 19:16:35 <ArtForz> seems the come with various core clocks depending on OEM, between 450 and 650MHz
 639 2011-01-11 19:16:58 <ArtForz> ~60Mh/s @ 650MHz core
 640 2011-01-11 19:17:34 <Diablo-D3> night all
 641 2011-01-11 19:18:12 <pidpawel> my version is 450MHz core and 790MHz memory
 642 2011-01-11 19:18:30 <ArtForz> mem clock doesnt matter really
 643 2011-01-11 19:18:42 <ArtForz> so... 60/650*450 ... about 41.5Mh/s
 644 2011-01-11 19:19:36 <pidpawel> it will still be much more than what i have now :)
 645 2011-01-11 19:19:45 <pidpawel> im running 1-2khps on cpu
 646 2011-01-11 19:20:13 <ArtForz> mhps you mean?
 647 2011-01-11 19:20:30 <pidpawel> yes, ofc ;)
 648 2011-01-11 19:20:59 <ArtForz> a PS3 cell should be able to get about 15Mh/s, 23Mh/s if it has a 1-cycle rotate opcode
 649 2011-01-11 19:21:57 <pidpawel> i dont have ps3 but i was couroius how fast would it be.
 650 2011-01-11 19:22:57 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 651 2011-01-11 19:24:11 <ArtForz> well, it's about as fast as a modern high-end CPU, but outclassed by a $70 GPU by a factor of 3-4
 652 2011-01-11 19:25:48 <ArtForz> and a $500 GPU is roughly another order of magnitude faster...
 653 2011-01-11 19:27:35 <pidpawel> i know that but still i dont want to spend a lot of money just to have my e-penis growing... :>
 654 2011-01-11 19:27:54 <ArtForz> nah, but it explains why nobody bothers with a PS3 miner
 655 2011-01-11 19:37:42 cdecker has joined
 656 2011-01-11 19:38:05 <cdecker> Any protocol guys here?
 657 2011-01-11 19:38:15 hundfred has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 658 2011-01-11 19:38:17 <cdecker> I'm having problems understanding the tx message
 659 2011-01-11 19:38:43 <ArtForz> whres the problem?
 660 2011-01-11 19:39:14 <cdecker> Oh hi Artforz
 661 2011-01-11 19:39:30 <cdecker> Problem is I don't know where the txin stop and txout start
 662 2011-01-11 19:39:43 <x6763> cdecker: yeah, i'm also having problems with that, too
 663 2011-01-11 19:40:00 <ArtForz> they're vectors, they have a count...
 664 2011-01-11 19:40:12 <cdecker> Oh nice
 665 2011-01-11 19:40:38 <lfm> the count fields are veriable length iirc
 666 2011-01-11 19:40:46 <ArtForz> yep
 667 2011-01-11 19:41:00 <cdecker> So the first thing to read is the variable size?
 668 2011-01-11 19:41:07 <ArtForz> yep
 669 2011-01-11 19:41:13 mtgox has joined
 670 2011-01-11 19:41:21 <cdecker> I wonder why that isn't explained on the Wiki
 671 2011-01-11 19:41:27 <ArtForz> it should be
 672 2011-01-11 19:41:28 <x6763> what is the "signature" or "script" of the TxIn?
 673 2011-01-11 19:41:41 <newsham> have people here used bitcoinmorpheus to deposit money into mtgox?
 674 2011-01-11 19:41:46 <ArtForz> it's the signature script
 675 2011-01-11 19:41:53 <cdecker> A simple forth like script to check the validity
 676 2011-01-11 19:42:00 <ArtForz> yep
 677 2011-01-11 19:42:04 <x6763> how do you tell how long the script is?
 678 2011-01-11 19:42:05 <cdecker> Check this
 679 2011-01-11 19:42:08 <cdecker> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script
 680 2011-01-11 19:42:10 <ArtForz> it's a vector of bytes
 681 2011-01-11 19:42:20 <ArtForz> again, with a variable length length field
 682 2011-01-11 19:42:28 <lfm> the scripts have their own count lengths
 683 2011-01-11 19:42:30 <x6763> ah, ok, i didn't see that anywhere yet
 684 2011-01-11 19:42:42 <cdecker> Anybody has a clue why Satoshi thought it useful to have Unsigned Integer 64 length?
 685 2011-01-11 19:42:54 <ArtForz> nope
 686 2011-01-11 19:42:57 <x6763> thanks ArtForz
 687 2011-01-11 19:43:01 <cdecker> That's longer than what fits on any disk
 688 2011-01-11 19:43:02 <newsham> cdecker: though std clients are pretty restrictive in what scripts they'll accept right now
 689 2011-01-11 19:43:11 <ArtForz> all serialized vectors have the variable length #items prefix
 690 2011-01-11 19:43:12 <cdecker> Yeah
 691 2011-01-11 19:43:28 <ArtForz> and thats prety easy to read
 692 2011-01-11 19:43:46 <cdecker> ArtForz: so anytime an array is in the doc I should first read the variable length?
 693 2011-01-11 19:43:48 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 800
 694 2011-01-11 19:43:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 2 years, 40 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 28 minutes, and 51 seconds
 695 2011-01-11 19:43:55 <lfm> just when its unsigned it makes it plain that it will never be negative
 696 2011-01-11 19:43:57 <newsham> also odd -- some timestamps are 64bits and some are 32bits
 697 2011-01-11 19:44:01 <ArtForz> yep
 698 2011-01-11 19:44:02 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
 699 2011-01-11 19:44:20 <ArtForz> read 1 byte, if it's < 253, thats #items, if it's == 253 read a WORD, if it's == 254 read a DWORd, if its=255 read a QWORD
 700 2011-01-11 19:44:36 <ArtForz> so really quite simple
 701 2011-01-11 19:44:49 <cdecker> Yup got that sorted out pretty early
 702 2011-01-11 19:44:55 <ArtForz> at least compared to crazy encodings like adobe flash
 703 2011-01-11 19:45:09 <newsham> they shoulda gone with BER!
 704 2011-01-11 19:45:11 <newsham> *ducks*
 705 2011-01-11 19:45:13 <cdecker> (even if Java doesn't have unsigned longs and 255,254 and 253 are negative in Java)
 706 2011-01-11 19:45:30 <ArtForz> hey, dont blame C coders for java stupidity
 707 2011-01-11 19:45:38 <cdecker> Hehe, I won't
 708 2011-01-11 19:45:44 <x6763> cdecker: you're using java?
 709 2011-01-11 19:45:47 <newsham> int x = (int)thechar; if(x<0) x+= 128;
 710 2011-01-11 19:45:49 <cdecker> What I will blame them is Little endian...
 711 2011-01-11 19:45:55 <ArtForz> "nobody uses unsigned numbers"
 712 2011-01-11 19:46:23 <cdecker> There's a reason big endian is also called network byte order
 713 2011-01-11 19:46:28 <ArtForz> well, it's consistent little endian except for IP and port# in CAddress
 714 2011-01-11 19:46:46 <ArtForz> yes, because 30 years ago there were mostly BE machines on ARPAnet
 715 2011-01-11 19:46:55 <lfm> and the sha256 stuff
 716 2011-01-11 19:46:57 <ArtForz> thats why network endian == BE
 717 2011-01-11 19:46:59 <newsham> just write marshalling primitives for each of your data types and then compose them.
 718 2011-01-11 19:46:59 <cdecker> Ah the good old days
 719 2011-01-11 19:47:08 <ArtForz> errr... not quite
 720 2011-01-11 19:47:10 <newsham> shouldnt matter much that java chose signed numbers, or things like that..
 721 2011-01-11 19:47:42 <ArtForz> but yeah, SHA256 defines its input/output to be BE
 722 2011-01-11 19:47:51 <lfm> newsham yes java can handel it, its just some extra overhead
 723 2011-01-11 19:47:58 <newsham> lfm: just barely
 724 2011-01-11 19:48:00 <ArtForz> and we then take the output and intepret is as a 256 bit LE integer
 725 2011-01-11 19:48:49 <donpdonp> "The term big-endian originally comes from Jonathan Swift's satirical novel Gulliver’s Travels..." where competing tribes mandated cracking open eggs either at the little end or the big end, hence endianess was used to identify two groups (from wikipedia)
 726 2011-01-11 19:49:07 <newsham> one little two little three little endian
 727 2011-01-11 19:49:24 <cdecker> Long live the endian wars :D
 728 2011-01-11 19:50:09 <newsham> big endian would make more sense if your pointer pointed ot the last byte (or perhaps one beyond the last byte) of the number :)
 729 2011-01-11 19:50:59 <ArtForz> well, and then there's middle endian
 730 2011-01-11 19:51:12 <x6763> cdecker: are you using any library like netty to handle network stuff?
 731 2011-01-11 19:51:16 <ArtForz> aka NUXI byte order
 732 2011-01-11 19:51:36 <ArtForz> BE is UNIX, LE is XINU
 733 2011-01-11 19:51:41 <lfm> donpdonp yes it was ment to point out the trivialness of most disagreements and it applies to the endian wars for computers too. there is not really any significant advantage of either. but people get very attached to one way or the other
 734 2011-01-11 19:51:45 <cdecker> x6763: no I'm coding it directly on top of nio Channels
 735 2011-01-11 19:52:07 * luke-jr encoders variable length integers as UTF-8 sometimes <.<
 736 2011-01-11 19:52:37 <newsham> can we do editor wars next?
 737 2011-01-11 19:52:42 <ArtForz> actually LE has a decent advantage for bignums
 738 2011-01-11 19:52:46 <newsham> only an emacs user would think big endian is cool!
 739 2011-01-11 19:52:46 <luke-jr> nano!
 740 2011-01-11 19:52:57 <luke-jr> I can never remember endianness stuff
 741 2011-01-11 19:53:00 <cdecker> emacs!
 742 2011-01-11 19:53:05 <luke-jr> I just know x86's endian sucks
 743 2011-01-11 19:53:11 <ArtForz> why?
 744 2011-01-11 19:53:17 <newsham> artforz: unless your pointer points to the last byte of a big-endian series.
 745 2011-01-11 19:53:24 <luke-jr> because it's out of order
 746 2011-01-11 19:53:25 <x6763> cdecker: ah, ok...i'm writing this in clojure and not being very familiar with the java libraries, i just grabbed netty and have been using that...i eventually realized that it's ChannelBuffer can read unsigned numbers for you
 747 2011-01-11 19:53:26 <cdecker> luke-jr: it's little endian on x86
 748 2011-01-11 19:53:38 <luke-jr> 89abcdef 01234567
 749 2011-01-11 19:53:48 <ArtForz> for a bignum you usually have (#elems) (elems)
 750 2011-01-11 19:53:50 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
 751 2011-01-11 19:54:06 darrob has joined
 752 2011-01-11 19:54:15 <newsham> s/byte/leg/
 753 2011-01-11 19:54:25 <ArtForz> so for example for adding 2 on x86, you read #items, start adding at the next = smallest elem and walk forwards carrying the carry
 754 2011-01-11 19:54:54 <ArtForz> with BE you skip forward, then walk backwards, not very cache freindly if both have different #elems
 755 2011-01-11 19:55:20 <newsham> art: unless your pointers are already pre-skipped forward and point to one beyond the end.
 756 2011-01-11 19:55:31 <lfm> artforz "forward" and "backward" can be reletive too. and in fact computers caount/move either direction equally well
 757 2011-01-11 19:55:53 <ArtForz> errr... not really
 758 2011-01-11 19:56:19 <ArtForz> then you have to also allocate memory the other way around and store pointers beyond the end of the mem block
 759 2011-01-11 19:56:20 <luke-jr> maybe I shoudl blame decimal >☺
 760 2011-01-11 19:56:29 <newsham> art: yup.
 761 2011-01-11 19:56:32 <cdecker> I never thought about that, with LE you'd actually need less cache :D
 762 2011-01-11 19:56:36 <newsham> art: we already do that with stacks :)
 763 2011-01-11 19:56:38 <luke-jr> decimal has numbers written right-to-left
 764 2011-01-11 19:56:52 <newsham> (at least on most architectures..  pa risc can take a hike)
 765 2011-01-11 19:57:10 <ArtForz> yes, and cpu caches have special optimizations for stack
 766 2011-01-11 19:57:12 <luke-jr> Tonal too, but it probably got it from decimal <.<
 767 2011-01-11 19:57:27 <ArtForz> while burst memory is really designed to be read/written in one direction
 768 2011-01-11 19:57:40 <newsham> oh, i see what you're saying.  burst prefetch stuff
 769 2011-01-11 19:57:46 <ArtForz> yep
 770 2011-01-11 19:57:50 <lfm> luke-jr yes they are called "arabic" numerals and lo and behold arabic write right - to - left
 771 2011-01-11 19:58:11 <ArtForz> well, most-significant-first makes for easier sorting
 772 2011-01-11 19:58:15 <slush> what files I have to delete from .bitcoin directory to force client rescan blocks and find transaction for my current wallet.dat?
 773 2011-01-11 19:58:18 <newsham> or as we clal them in america "terror numbers"
 774 2011-01-11 19:58:25 <ArtForz> iirc just blkindex.dat
 775 2011-01-11 19:58:35 <slush> thx, I'll try
 776 2011-01-11 19:59:38 <newsham> nobody's used bitcoinmorpheus to xfer to mtgox?
 777 2011-01-11 20:00:24 <x6763> newsham: i haven't, but i'm considering it...i'd also like to know if anyone has used bitcoinmorpheus
 778 2011-01-11 20:00:51 <ArtForz> btw, I think we have a bug in CallCPUID
 779 2011-01-11 20:01:45 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2062.0
 780 2011-01-11 20:01:48 <bitbot> Segfault on hardened Linux systems
 781 2011-01-11 20:02:23 <gavinandresen> ArtForz:  sounds like the likely candidate.
 782 2011-01-11 20:02:35 <TD> cdecker: evening
 783 2011-01-11 20:02:44 <ArtForz> clobbered regs should be "%eax","%ebx","%ecx","%edx"
 784 2011-01-11 20:02:45 <cdecker> Hi td
 785 2011-01-11 20:03:05 <ArtForz> even wikipedia example code says so :P
 786 2011-01-11 20:03:51 <ArtForz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPUID#Accessing_the_id_from_other_languages
 787 2011-01-11 20:04:01 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: can you give BioMike a patch to try?  I don't know nuthin about no CPUID or x86 asm.....
 788 2011-01-11 20:04:17 hundfred has joined
 789 2011-01-11 20:05:15 <ArtForz> -        :"%eax","%ecx" /* clobbered register */
 790 2011-01-11 20:05:15 <ArtForz> +        :"%eax","%ebx","%ecx","%edx" /* clobbered register */
 791 2011-01-11 20:06:28 <ArtForz> no clue why that didn't bite use earlier
 792 2011-01-11 20:06:51 <mizerydearia> wtf?  "In 2010 Austerity was named as the word of the year by Merriam-Webster."  O_O
 793 2011-01-11 20:07:20 <mizerydearia> I didn't realize Merriam-Webster was evil too
 794 2011-01-11 20:07:24 <newsham> surely used in the news often enough
 795 2011-01-11 20:07:54 <mizerydearia> Actually, it's the first time I heard the word from watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQVA8DK2Q2g&feature=channel
 796 2011-01-11 20:08:27 <newsham> http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=austerity
 797 2011-01-11 20:10:18 <newsham> pass on the alex jones, thank you very much
 798 2011-01-11 20:10:57 <mizerydearia> strange, less than 10,000 results for Austerity.  Almost two times as much for wikileaks.  Why isn't wikileaks the word of the year? ^_^
 799 2011-01-11 20:11:01 larsivi has joined
 800 2011-01-11 20:11:04 <luke-jr> newsham: not "freedom numbers"?
 801 2011-01-11 20:11:10 <mizerydearia> durr, austerity & Wikileaks
 802 2011-01-11 20:11:23 RazielZ has quit ()
 803 2011-01-11 20:12:04 <newsham> wikileaks is a proper noun.
 804 2011-01-11 20:12:38 djx has joined
 805 2011-01-11 20:13:32 <EvanR-work> wikileaks is a 'real word' now?
 806 2011-01-11 20:13:55 <newsham> no, its a proper noun
 807 2011-01-11 20:14:30 <cdecker> it's a verb
 808 2011-01-11 20:14:34 <cdecker> I Wikileak
 809 2011-01-11 20:14:38 <cdecker> You wikileak
 810 2011-01-11 20:14:41 <ArtForz> call a wikiplumber
 811 2011-01-11 20:14:42 <cdecker> We all leak
 812 2011-01-11 20:15:03 <cdecker> It's called a Wiki Sanitation Manager
 813 2011-01-11 20:15:07 <cdecker> :D
 814 2011-01-11 20:15:13 <x6763> cdecker and ArtForz: does this look right for TxIn and TxOut? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#tx
 815 2011-01-11 20:15:17 <EvanR-work> manager manager
 816 2011-01-11 20:15:21 <EvanR-work> coordinator
 817 2011-01-11 20:15:24 <EvanR-work> facilitator
 818 2011-01-11 20:15:58 <cdecker> x6763: You added the variable length to the script?
 819 2011-01-11 20:16:11 <x6763> cdecker: yeah, for both TxIn and TxOut
 820 2011-01-11 20:16:26 <cdecker> I'd rather go and define a variable string which starts with the length
 821 2011-01-11 20:16:26 <ArtForz> someone should rewrite that to point out that we use the variable-length prefix for all var-length vectors
 822 2011-01-11 20:16:40 <cdecker> And var length strings
 823 2011-01-11 20:16:51 <ArtForz> doesnt matter if it's a vector of bytes, TXin/outs, CInvs or CAddrs
 824 2011-01-11 20:16:58 Myckel has joined
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 826 2011-01-11 20:16:59 Myckel has joined
 827 2011-01-11 20:17:09 <Myckel> Hi
 828 2011-01-11 20:17:13 <pidpawel> hello.
 829 2011-01-11 20:17:30 <Myckel> ArtForz, which file contains the asm code?
 830 2011-01-11 20:17:34 <cdecker> Strangely addr already has an explicit var_int in front
 831 2011-01-11 20:17:54 <ArtForz> main.cpp
 832 2011-01-11 20:17:58 <Myckel> ok
 833 2011-01-11 20:18:03 <ElectRo`> i have to take a manning and wipe the wikileaks from my assange
 834 2011-01-11 20:18:07 <djx> hi all
 835 2011-01-11 20:18:14 <newsham> electro: eek
 836 2011-01-11 20:18:15 <djx> is there a bitcoin roadmap online
 837 2011-01-11 20:18:34 <djx> for relases
 838 2011-01-11 20:19:06 <ArtForz> it dos?
 839 2011-01-11 20:19:07 <lfm> djx no. releases are released when they're needed and ready~
 840 2011-01-11 20:19:37 tcatm has quit (Quit: leaving)
 841 2011-01-11 20:19:46 <x6763> cdecker: yeah, a lot already explicitly have var_ints listed...i prefer them to be explicit...my problem with TxIn and TxOut was that all it said was 'script', which told me nothing about the type of data i was supposed to be dealing with...so now i changed it to char[], since it's supposed to be a bunch of bytes
 842 2011-01-11 20:19:53 <djx> when i use bitcoin over tor, it sends all the data over tor?
 843 2011-01-11 20:20:09 <djx> would it be anonymous, i mean
 844 2011-01-11 20:20:34 <lfm> djx depends how you distributre your addreses
 845 2011-01-11 20:20:39 <ArtForz> btw, shouldnt "start count" in getblocks also be a var_int
 846 2011-01-11 20:20:50 <djx> what do you mean
 847 2011-01-11 20:20:58 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: This a triumph,I'm making a note here HUGE SUCCESS!)
 848 2011-01-11 20:21:15 <djx> would i need a seperate address, or would i have to generate a whole new wallet
 849 2011-01-11 20:21:17 <x6763> ArtForz: yeah, someone just wrote it out completely instead of typing "var_int"...assuming you're looking at the same page
 850 2011-01-11 20:21:31 <ArtForz> right now the wiki says "variable length integer" while it uses var_int everywhere else
 851 2011-01-11 20:21:32 <ArtForz> yep
 852 2011-01-11 20:21:41 <luke-jr> who is Casascius?
 853 2011-01-11 20:21:44 <EvanR-work> djx: as long as no one gets your wallet, you can keep one wallet
 854 2011-01-11 20:21:45 <luke-jr> I want to send him some TBC
 855 2011-01-11 20:21:51 <lfm> djx if you tell people on irc what bitcoin address to send money to then any transaction to that address is not private, it is public
 856 2011-01-11 20:21:59 <x6763> ArtForz: i changed it for getblocks
 857 2011-01-11 20:22:07 <djx> lfm: well yeah
 858 2011-01-11 20:22:13 <lfm> ya
 859 2011-01-11 20:22:15 <djx> i'd have to be on tor irc
 860 2011-01-11 20:22:33 <ArtForz> and yeah tx is missing tx_in count and tx_out count in this notation
 861 2011-01-11 20:22:38 <lfm> itd still be associated with your irc id then
 862 2011-01-11 20:22:52 <luke-jr> …
 863 2011-01-11 20:22:53 <EvanR-work> hes asking about associating his ip with the transaction
 864 2011-01-11 20:22:53 <djx> i assume it would be a tor-only id
 865 2011-01-11 20:22:58 <EvanR-work> on his end
 866 2011-01-11 20:22:58 <luke-jr> Casascius?
 867 2011-01-11 20:23:05 <EvanR-work> by the isp
 868 2011-01-11 20:23:13 <x6763> ArtForz: hmmm..sure is, i'll change that too
 869 2011-01-11 20:23:19 <lfm> i dont assume that. some people dont
 870 2011-01-11 20:24:12 <EvanR-work> if you trust bitcoin like you trust tor, then your stuff is already anonymous. as long as you dont give your name out when you give your address out
 871 2011-01-11 20:24:36 <lfm> djx in fact bitcoin over tor seems to buy you very little. bitcoin txns are pretty annonymous on the bitcoin net already
 872 2011-01-11 20:24:55 <djx> i'll trust that closer to version 1.0
 873 2011-01-11 20:25:16 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: AND use a new address each time
 874 2011-01-11 20:25:18 <ArtForz> we still need a bunch of changes to make bitcoin-over-tor interesting
 875 2011-01-11 20:25:18 <EvanR-work> you can also run your own generator
 876 2011-01-11 20:25:21 <EvanR-work> that helps
 877 2011-01-11 20:25:25 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: yes
 878 2011-01-11 20:25:31 <lfm> djx huh? I dont think ver 1 will use a different security modle
 879 2011-01-11 20:25:33 <djx> i need a computer with a gpu
 880 2011-01-11 20:25:38 <djx> this laptop sucks
 881 2011-01-11 20:25:58 <EvanR-work> it doesnt have to actually generate
 882 2011-01-11 20:26:11 <EvanR-work> just hide the fact that you are the one who sent the coins
 883 2011-01-11 20:26:14 <djx> is there a way to distribute the generation
 884 2011-01-11 20:26:15 <EvanR-work> from neaby nodes
 885 2011-01-11 20:26:27 <djx> like a distributed client on my friend's gpus
 886 2011-01-11 20:26:33 <EvanR-work> pooled miner
 887 2011-01-11 20:26:36 ApertureScience has joined
 888 2011-01-11 20:26:41 <lfm> djx see pools
 889 2011-01-11 20:26:49 <luke-jr> djx: I'm part of a big pool
 890 2011-01-11 20:27:02 ApertureScience has quit (Client Quit)
 891 2011-01-11 20:27:08 <luke-jr> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
 892 2011-01-11 20:27:21 <mizerydearia> we are the resistance
 893 2011-01-11 20:27:35 <lfm> mizery huh?
 894 2011-01-11 20:27:36 <x6763> alright, now hopefully i'll be able to parse some transactions
 895 2011-01-11 20:28:06 <djx> is it worth it to run a pool, if i just have a crappy laptop with no gpu
 896 2011-01-11 20:28:24 <kupo> I'm glad however that more and more people care about bitcoin over tor
 897 2011-01-11 20:28:24 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 898 2011-01-11 20:28:36 <kupo> and realize the value in crypto cash
 899 2011-01-11 20:28:46 <lfm> djx worth is subjective
 900 2011-01-11 20:28:56 <x6763> djx: may or may not be cost efficient when considering electricity costs...i don't bother
 901 2011-01-11 20:29:18 <lfm> unless you get free power
 902 2011-01-11 20:29:28 <mizerydearia> lfm: http://is.gd/kzMjp
 903 2011-01-11 20:29:29 <djx> i'm not conserned with electricity, i don't pay for iit
 904 2011-01-11 20:29:49 <djx> i mean will it actually pay out more than 1 or 2 coins to me
 905 2011-01-11 20:31:23 <lfm> djx depends how fast your machine and how long you run it
 906 2011-01-11 20:32:21 <x6763> djx: a few weeks ago, i had 2 old machines running on slush's pool for a few days or so and got about 0.2 BTC out of it...better than nothing, but the cost of the electricity i was using outweighed any immediate gain (eventually those coins might be worth more than the electricity i used, though)
 907 2011-01-11 20:32:28 <kiba> the weather so bad that I have no school for three days
 908 2011-01-11 20:32:57 <EvanR-work> djx: it will tell you your hash rate. thats what matters
 909 2011-01-11 20:33:16 <EvanR-work> mine is 2M and it took me about a week and a half to get 1 BTC ;)
 910 2011-01-11 20:33:57 <djx> i'm the mod of reddit.com/r/hackbloc
 911 2011-01-11 20:34:05 <djx> we just started taking bitcoin donations
 912 2011-01-11 20:34:14 <ArtForz> is gribble still b0rked?
 913 2011-01-11 20:34:29 <EvanR-work> gribble is a cripple
 914 2011-01-11 20:34:51 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 915 2011-01-11 20:34:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102161 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 654 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17854.35897435
 916 2011-01-11 20:35:01 <ArtForz> cool
 917 2011-01-11 20:35:03 WonTu has joined
 918 2011-01-11 20:35:16 <cdecker> Somehow I think -1093823518 is not a valid tx version
 919 2011-01-11 20:35:17 WonTu has left ()
 920 2011-01-11 20:35:24 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 2000
 921 2011-01-11 20:35:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes, and 32 seconds
 922 2011-01-11 20:35:44 <x6763> cdecker: haha
 923 2011-01-11 20:35:51 <ArtForz> yeah... at 2MHps getting 50btc takes a while ...
 924 2011-01-11 20:35:58 <cdecker> I don't get it, really
 925 2011-01-11 20:36:38 <x6763> cdecker: i haven't started writing the code for parsing transactions yet, so i have no idea what it's actually like
 926 2011-01-11 20:36:49 <ArtForz> should be 1 iirc
 927 2011-01-11 20:37:41 <TD> yeah version numbers are always 1, currently
 928 2011-01-11 20:37:43 <cdecker> I'm trying to parse this message
 929 2011-01-11 20:37:46 <cdecker> http://en.webhex.net/view/682b6b99f783fcf312cae616d878dbc9
 930 2011-01-11 20:38:09 <ArtForz> you forgot to skip the header checksum
 931 2011-01-11 20:38:31 <cdecker> Sounds reasonable, let's have a look
 932 2011-01-11 20:38:35 <TD> hah, webhex
 933 2011-01-11 20:38:39 <ArtForz> or packet checksum or whatever you want to call it
 934 2011-01-11 20:38:45 <x6763> cdecker: yeah, that number you gave us is the checksum
 935 2011-01-11 20:38:47 <ArtForz> the E2 93 CD BE part
 936 2011-01-11 20:38:59 <ArtForz> right after that is 01 00 00 00, tx version
 937 2011-01-11 20:39:38 <x6763> never heard of webhex...kind of nice for things like this
 938 2011-01-11 20:39:51 <cdecker> How the hell did you notice that so quick?
 939 2011-01-11 20:39:59 <cdecker> It actually works
 940 2011-01-11 20:40:09 <cdecker> I'll be back later for more :D
 941 2011-01-11 20:40:11 cdecker has left ()
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 945 2011-01-11 20:43:59 <lfm> oh yay
 946 2011-01-11 20:44:01 <djx> so far a lot of people have donated
 947 2011-01-11 20:44:05 <djx> i'm surprised
 948 2011-01-11 20:44:08 <djx> lol a netsplit?
 949 2011-01-11 20:44:26 djoot has joined
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 951 2011-01-11 20:45:42 luke-jr has joined
 952 2011-01-11 20:46:58 <nanotube> djx: there are people offering vps's for bitcoins, too. :)
 953 2011-01-11 20:47:26 Daviey has quit (Excess Flood)
 954 2011-01-11 20:47:29 tcatm has joined
 955 2011-01-11 20:48:47 <djx> yeah i hope to get one
 956 2011-01-11 20:49:04 <djx> i need a server than can run various services
 957 2011-01-11 20:49:10 <djx> and a tor hidden address
 958 2011-01-11 20:49:11 Daviey has joined
 959 2011-01-11 20:49:31 <luke-jr> so it looks like I can actually send bitcoin to a password rather than a key? :P
 960 2011-01-11 20:49:51 <djx> hm?
 961 2011-01-11 20:50:04 <luke-jr> djx: the infra doesn't require using keys
 962 2011-01-11 20:50:27 <djx> what do you mean
 963 2011-01-11 20:50:31 <TD> no,  today you have to use keys
 964 2011-01-11 20:50:45 <luke-jr> djx: it's conceivable to send bitcoins to a password rather than an address
 965 2011-01-11 20:50:48 <TD> in theory you could write a script that allowed passwords instead of target addresses
 966 2011-01-11 20:50:55 <TD> but the network would reject these scripts as non standard
 967 2011-01-11 20:51:08 <luke-jr> TD: the network rejects "non-standard" scripts? -.-
 968 2011-01-11 20:51:11 <TD> yes
 969 2011-01-11 20:51:24 <djx> sounds a little fascists to me
 970 2011-01-11 20:51:28 <TD> you could send a patch to gavin or satoshi if you wanted a new type of script to become common.
 971 2011-01-11 20:51:29 <djx> damn this laptop
 972 2011-01-11 20:51:36 <lfm> how would passwords be uniue?
 973 2011-01-11 20:51:45 <lfm> unique
 974 2011-01-11 20:53:09 <TD> why would you want a password anyway
 975 2011-01-11 20:53:09 <djx> is it gonna take a while for my transactions to be confirmed?
 976 2011-01-11 20:53:16 <djx> i just moved my wallet to a new computer
 977 2011-01-11 20:53:16 <TD> bearing in mind it could be brute forced ....
 978 2011-01-11 20:53:45 <lfm> confirmation takes an average of 1 hour give or take
 979 2011-01-11 20:54:35 <lfm> if you want a simple username password for bitcoin just create a mybitcoins.com account
 980 2011-01-11 20:58:19 <luke-jr> TD: wait, so scripts are only rejected by block generators?
 981 2011-01-11 20:58:30 <luke-jr> so I could still use passwords, so long as I generate my own block?
 982 2011-01-11 20:58:42 <TD> no
 983 2011-01-11 20:58:50 <luke-jr> TD: passwords are easier printed and shared on paper
 984 2011-01-11 20:58:53 <TD> even if you generate your own block, other nodes won't accept it
 985 2011-01-11 20:59:03 <luke-jr> TD: in that case, not even satoshi could fix it
 986 2011-01-11 20:59:11 <luke-jr> since it would require *every node* to upgrade
 987 2011-01-11 20:59:16 <TD> no
 988 2011-01-11 20:59:17 <TD> just the majority
 989 2011-01-11 20:59:20 <luke-jr> (in which case we could replace the entire system)
 990 2011-01-11 20:59:31 <luke-jr> TD: and the minority that don't fork their own block chain?
 991 2011-01-11 20:59:34 <TD> which has been done before. see the september integer overflow incident
 992 2011-01-11 21:00:31 <luke-jr> TD: basically, that makes it no different than breaking ANY rule in bitcoin
 993 2011-01-11 21:00:34 <TD> i think lfm has a point. if for some reason you don't know the address of the person you're sending coins to, but you will be able to meet them in person, a mybitcoin account or some other service would work better
 994 2011-01-11 21:00:35 <luke-jr> including 21mil
 995 2011-01-11 21:01:02 <TD> because it can implement brute forcing protection
 996 2011-01-11 21:01:07 <TD> whereas a pure block chain based solution can't
 997 2011-01-11 21:01:46 <nanotube> djx: what exactly did you do when you 'moved wallet' ? just the wallet.dat? so now you're redownloading the blocks?
 998 2011-01-11 21:01:49 <lfm> plus if you both have mybitcoin accounts the transaction can be instantaneous
 999 2011-01-11 21:02:11 <luke-jr> yawn
1000 2011-01-11 21:02:15 <luke-jr> so bad example
1001 2011-01-11 21:05:53 devon_hillard has joined
1002 2011-01-11 21:06:48 <ArtForz> actually if you get your nonstd but owtherwise valid script in a block it IS accepted by everyone
1003 2011-01-11 21:07:21 <ArtForz> network doesnt pass on nonstd TX and normal generators alsdo ignore em
1004 2011-01-11 21:07:38 <ArtForz> but if it's in a block, everyone WILL accept and pass on that block
1005 2011-01-11 21:07:58 <ArtForz> same thing with TX carrying not enough fees
1006 2011-01-11 21:08:41 devon_hillard_ has joined
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1014 2011-01-11 21:23:18 <TD> i  stand corrected
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1017 2011-01-11 22:12:13 <LobsterMan> slush are you here?
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1024 2011-01-11 22:22:01 <mizerydearia> gavinandresen, To the best of your knowledge, Is it safe to run bitcoin client from git staging tree (http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/)?
1025 2011-01-11 22:22:08 <mizerydearia> for production environment
1026 2011-01-11 22:22:59 <lfm> if its being patched it might crash
1027 2011-01-11 22:24:27 <lfm> like you prolly shouldnt automaticlly download a new version every day
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1036 2011-01-11 22:48:19 <slush> LobsterMan: yes
1037 2011-01-11 22:49:34 slush1 has joined
1038 2011-01-11 22:49:42 <slush1> LobsterMan: oh, network outage. Back again
1039 2011-01-11 22:52:26 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1040 2011-01-11 22:54:59 cdecker has joined
1041 2011-01-11 22:55:25 <cdecker> Gosh this transaction format is killing me
1042 2011-01-11 22:56:26 <midnightmagic> crap i don't know where I sent all my thousands of btc on the testnet..
1043 2011-01-11 22:56:48 <tcatm> midnightmagic: faucet
1044 2011-01-11 22:57:55 <midnightmagic> dangit! i totally had like 26k and i wanted to send it to myself for amusement, so i set up another testnet client and did so. now i don't remember which damn machine was the recipient. :-)
1045 2011-01-11 22:58:16 <midnightmagic> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/0000000013a5440126f90819a870b7304f0911cf9335b06d3efed6075e80c488 <--
1046 2011-01-11 22:59:37 <cdecker> Has anyone a good understanding about the tx message?
1047 2011-01-11 22:59:55 <cdecker> I'm trying to parse one but I'm hitting my head against the scriptsig.
1048 2011-01-11 22:59:59 <luke-jr> cdecker: I know it's a scripting language!
1049 2011-01-11 23:00:29 <cdecker> Ok, but you could tell me where the script starts or ends in this one http://en.webhex.net/view/682b6b99f783fcf312cae616d878dbc9 do you?
1050 2011-01-11 23:00:54 <luke-jr> nfc
1051 2011-01-11 23:01:02 <luke-jr> well actually
1052 2011-01-11 23:01:10 <luke-jr> I probably could just by looking for the standard script content
1053 2011-01-11 23:01:14 <luke-jr> <.<
1054 2011-01-11 23:01:33 <cdecker> It's the transaction for http://blockexplorer.com/tx/d4a73f51ab7ee7acb4cf0505d1fab34661666c461488e58ec30281e2becd93e2#i565081 AFAIK
1055 2011-01-11 23:03:14 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1057 2011-01-11 23:06:07 <tcatm> cdecker: Have you already split it into vin/vouts?
1058 2011-01-11 23:06:25 <cdecker> Hm?
1059 2011-01-11 23:06:26 <midnightmagic> i was almost the cause of over 51k of btc in the testnet destroyed.
1060 2011-01-11 23:06:26 <midnightmagic> \o
1061 2011-01-11 23:06:55 <cdecker> What I do is I read the transaction hash of the OutPoint
1062 2011-01-11 23:07:08 <cdecker> Then I read the index (0) which works just fine
1063 2011-01-11 23:07:31 <cdecker> I then read a variable length followed by the string of that length
1064 2011-01-11 23:08:12 <x6763> cdecker: sounds right so far
1065 2011-01-11 23:08:23 <x6763> cdecker: as far as i know...i'm working on this, too, at the moment
1066 2011-01-11 23:08:52 <cdecker> But then I end up reading the count of TxOuts which is 255 meaning I have to read a uint64 which strikes me as impossible
1067 2011-01-11 23:10:45 <x6763> cdecker: are you off by one byte, reading the last byte of the 'sequence' as the TxOut count?
1068 2011-01-11 23:11:00 <cdecker> Let's take a look
1069 2011-01-11 23:11:21 <x6763> that's the last 0xff i see
1070 2011-01-11 23:11:25 <x6763> brb in a few minutes
1071 2011-01-11 23:12:15 <x6763> nevermind, i'm still here for now...expecting someone to stop by for a minute anytime now
1072 2011-01-11 23:13:07 <sipa> midnightmagic: how so?
1073 2011-01-11 23:13:40 <x6763> cdecker: but at the beginning of line 0000D0, you have 0xFF just before 0x02, which is the TxOut count, if i'm looking at this right
1074 2011-01-11 23:13:44 <cdecker> I wasn't reading the sequence, dump me
1075 2011-01-11 23:13:49 <x6763> haha
1076 2011-01-11 23:15:10 <cdecker> Somehow the signature script doesn't look like on BBE
1077 2011-01-11 23:16:15 <cdecker> But now I'm jumping correctly
1078 2011-01-11 23:16:26 <x6763> cdecker: nice
1079 2011-01-11 23:16:44 <cdecker> Well I'll keep on having a few extra bytes in my signature script...
1080 2011-01-11 23:17:47 <cdecker> Can a script really be 25 bytes in length only?
1081 2011-01-11 23:18:22 <x6763> cdecker: apparently both of the TxOut scripts are
1082 2011-01-11 23:18:47 <cdecker> I can't believe it, I got a TX to parse correctly
1083 2011-01-11 23:18:55 <cdecker> Now on to write the unit test :D
1084 2011-01-11 23:19:00 <sipa> cdecker: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/a288fec5559c3f73fd3d93db8e8460562ebfe2fcf04a5114e8d0f2920a6270dc
1085 2011-01-11 23:19:22 <cdecker> Nice one sipa
1086 2011-01-11 23:19:42 <cdecker> But generally they are about 25 bytes long aren't they?
1087 2011-01-11 23:21:02 * kiba is suprised that 80% of bitcoiners are uninterested in space exploration
1088 2011-01-11 23:21:03 <sipa> the default client only generates a few types of scripts
1089 2011-01-11 23:21:35 <cdecker> And since a few versions only accepts the ones he knows about
1090 2011-01-11 23:21:52 <cdecker> Making the whole scripting business quite useless...
1091 2011-01-11 23:22:44 <tcatm> New scripts can be added
1092 2011-01-11 23:23:57 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1095 2011-01-11 23:27:24 <sneak> when spending coins, how frequently does the client retransmit a spend if it's not blocked yet?
1096 2011-01-11 23:27:51 <tcatm> sneak: 1 block + random interval
1097 2011-01-11 23:28:01 <tcatm> random interval is about 30min IIRC
1098 2011-01-11 23:28:02 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1099 2011-01-11 23:28:36 <cdecker> Got to go
1100 2011-01-11 23:28:43 <cdecker> Thanks for the help guys :D
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1104 2011-01-11 23:49:59 <LobsterMan> yay gribble works again
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