1 2011-01-14 00:06:18 gavinandresen has joined
2 2011-01-14 00:06:29 <gavinandresen> Howdy y'all
3 2011-01-14 00:06:36 <tcatm> hey gavin
4 2011-01-14 00:06:53 <nevezen> is there a way to get the normal bitcoin client to join a pool?
5 2011-01-14 00:07:00 <tcatm> nevezen: no
6 2011-01-14 00:07:08 <tcatm> nevezen: use a seperate miner
7 2011-01-14 00:08:49 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
8 2011-01-14 00:09:24 <gavinandresen> tcatm, ArtForz: you were talking about returning from inside CRITICAL_BLOCKs before... and returning from inside CRITICAL_BLOCK isn't a bug, it is a feature.
9 2011-01-14 00:09:31 <fabianhjr> kiba`: could you give me a donation address for the Magazine?
10 2011-01-14 00:10:08 <ArtForz> ?
11 2011-01-14 00:10:09 <lfm> gavin that doesnt sound like a good idea
12 2011-01-14 00:10:33 <ArtForz> it sounds like a good way to horribly break stuff
13 2011-01-14 00:10:56 da2ce7 has joined
14 2011-01-14 00:11:05 <gavinandresen> It's the C++ paradigm of making sure resources are released when control leaves the block, no matter HOW control leaves the block....
15 2011-01-14 00:11:49 <gavinandresen> To be exception-safe, it has to do the create-an-object that does the lock, and rely on the compiler to properly destruct the object when the CRITICAL_BLOCK scope is left.
16 2011-01-14 00:11:59 devon_hillard_ has joined
17 2011-01-14 00:12:09 <gavinandresen> Side effect is that returning from inside the block is perfectly fine.
18 2011-01-14 00:12:37 <tcatm> What about the "warning: control reaches end of non-void function"?
19 2011-01-14 00:12:45 Cusipzzz has joined
20 2011-01-14 00:13:02 <gavinandresen> That's probably just gcc being dumb, and not realizing that the return inside the block will always happen.
21 2011-01-14 00:13:22 <gavinandresen> (but I should double-check that)
22 2011-01-14 00:13:49 <gavinandresen> (nice bug in setaccount, by the way, good catch)
23 2011-01-14 00:15:35 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
24 2011-01-14 00:15:36 altamic has joined
25 2011-01-14 00:15:54 <Diablo-D3> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/h7nACB8CH-Y/story01.htm
26 2011-01-14 00:15:58 <Diablo-D3> slashdot is retarded
27 2011-01-14 00:16:03 <Diablo-D3> I can do it in 6 minutes for free.
28 2011-01-14 00:16:06 <gavinandresen> tcatm: wouldn't hurt to get rid of the compiler error by : string strResult = PubKeyTo... } return strResult; in getaccountaddress
29 2011-01-14 00:16:29 <ArtForz> lol
30 2011-01-14 00:17:11 <tcatm> gavinandresen: I'll debug the assembly to check whether g++ is right or not, first.
31 2011-01-14 00:17:39 <ArtForz> 400khash/s ... how unimpressive
32 2011-01-14 00:18:43 <ArtForz> actually sounds like a really weird number
33 2011-01-14 00:19:07 <ArtForz> way too high for direct PBKDF2, too low for a precalculated dictionary attack
34 2011-01-14 00:19:31 <davux> gavinandresen: you talk often with satoshi... any news from him?
35 2011-01-14 00:20:54 <gavinandresen> I got email from Satoshi about a tricky bug today. He's just busy.
36 2011-01-14 00:21:11 <ArtForz> TFA doesn't make any sense
37 2011-01-14 00:21:40 <ArtForz> "you shouldnt use sha1 for passwords, it's too fast, use PBKDF2-SHA1"
38 2011-01-14 00:22:04 <ArtForz> last time I cehcekd, wpa is already doing that
39 2011-01-14 00:22:53 <ArtForz> I suspect thats 400k SHA1 iterations per second, or about 40k PBKDF2 hashes/s
40 2011-01-14 00:23:01 <ArtForz> which is about exactly what you'd expect from2 tesla 2050s
41 2011-01-14 00:24:37 <nevezen> you can bruteforce WPA2 keys now?
42 2011-01-14 00:25:09 <ArtForz> well, if the user uses a stupid PW, yes
43 2011-01-14 00:25:26 <ArtForz> a 5970 can test about 80k PW/s
44 2011-01-14 00:25:51 <ArtForz> well, about 75k/s stock
45 2011-01-14 00:26:21 <ArtForz> 4*5970 = 300kPW/s
46 2011-01-14 00:26:58 <ArtForz> = about 7.5 EC2 GPU instances
47 2011-01-14 00:27:15 <tcatm> gavinandresen: http://pastebin.com/izLKcBQD (If you haven't patched it yourself already)
48 2011-01-14 00:27:36 <ArtForz> one instance is about $16/h
49 2011-01-14 00:28:03 <ArtForz> = that quad 5970 box is equivalent to $120 of EC2 time *per hour*
50 2011-01-14 00:28:42 ApertureScience has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
51 2011-01-14 00:28:45 <ArtForz> yeah, you'll save > hardware cost in <24h of cracking
52 2011-01-14 00:29:01 <Diablo-D3> wpa2 is fucked anyhow
53 2011-01-14 00:29:11 <ArtForz> how does EC2 make PW cracking economical again?
54 2011-01-14 00:29:12 <Diablo-D3> it has a limit of 64 bytes for the key
55 2011-01-14 00:29:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: it doesnt
56 2011-01-14 00:29:24 <Diablo-D3> this is clearly an amazon advertisement
57 2011-01-14 00:29:27 <Diablo-D3> and it should be pulled
58 2011-01-14 00:29:28 <nevezen> you mean 63
59 2011-01-14 00:29:38 <Diablo-D3> nevezen: 64, but there are broken devices.
60 2011-01-14 00:29:41 devon_hillard_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
61 2011-01-14 00:29:45 <ArtForz> even at $0.3/kWh the quad 5970 costs < $10/day to run
62 2011-01-14 00:30:00 ApertureScience has joined
63 2011-01-14 00:30:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes and
64 2011-01-14 00:30:18 <ArtForz> getting the same speed in EC2 gpu nodes costs ... $3k
65 2011-01-14 00:30:20 <Diablo-D3> I can drive up toi an AP
66 2011-01-14 00:30:23 <Diablo-D3> and guess any password
67 2011-01-14 00:30:27 <Diablo-D3> in about 6 minutes.
68 2011-01-14 00:30:34 <Diablo-D3> for free.
69 2011-01-14 00:30:58 <ArtForz> well, for free wifi, nothing beats high-gain antennas
70 2011-01-14 00:30:58 <gavinandresen> tcatm: got the patch, I'll commit it as part of the fix to setaccount not properly removing not-yet-used-keys from the keypool.
71 2011-01-14 00:31:09 <nevezen> people don't use wpa2 to the fullest extent? (eg: weak passwords)
72 2011-01-14 00:31:49 <ArtForz> pretty crazy how many APs you can see from a high-rise apt with a 26dBi parabolic ;)
73 2011-01-14 00:32:28 <nevezen> still won't be accessible if they have a wireless mac filter in place
74 2011-01-14 00:32:35 <ArtForz> errr.. no
75 2011-01-14 00:32:35 <nevezen> but that can be spoofed though
76 2011-01-14 00:32:40 <ArtForz> yep
77 2011-01-14 00:32:51 <andrew12> I wish the world was flat like the old days, and I could travel just by folding the map...
78 2011-01-14 00:32:58 <ArtForz> if you can see the APs beacons, you can see the packets it sends to connected wireless nodes
79 2011-01-14 00:33:07 <nevezen> or if they had some kind of authentication mechanism
80 2011-01-14 00:33:09 <andrew12> <3 this song
81 2011-01-14 00:33:10 <ArtForz> = hey, theres their MACs
82 2011-01-14 00:36:17 <nevezen> is the method the same for wpa2 cracking as wep?
83 2011-01-14 00:36:22 <ArtForz> no
84 2011-01-14 00:36:29 <ArtForz> wep is utterly and totally broken
85 2011-01-14 00:36:35 <nevezen> yes
86 2011-01-14 00:36:53 <ArtForz> WPA you attack the good old way, capture a challenge-resopinse sequence and try passwords
87 2011-01-14 00:37:10 <tcatm> gavinandresen: btw, is there any nogui fork you know of?
88 2011-01-14 00:37:10 <nevezen> initialization vectors I think it was called
89 2011-01-14 00:37:31 <ArtForz> WPA and and WPA2 use the same PW-to-masterkey function for PSK, PBKDF2-HMAC-SHA1
90 2011-01-14 00:37:49 Tritonio has joined
91 2011-01-14 00:38:01 <ArtForz> using 4096 iterations iirc
92 2011-01-14 00:38:03 <gavinandresen> tcatm: you mean missing all the gui-related code? No.
93 2011-01-14 00:38:50 <tcatm> Would such a fork be useful?
94 2011-01-14 00:40:18 <nanotube> tcatm: isn't that what bitcoind is?
95 2011-01-14 00:40:22 <nanotube> non-gui?
96 2011-01-14 00:40:26 <gavinandresen> I don't think that would be terribly useful, it is easy to ignore the gui stuff. More useful would be a libbitcoin.a, but that would be a lot of work.
97 2011-01-14 00:40:36 da2ce7 has quit ()
98 2011-01-14 00:41:37 <tcatm> Maybe removing all unneeded code is s start for libbitcoin.a
99 2011-01-14 00:41:50 <nanotube> ArtForz: btw, do you know, in net.cpp, the pnseed list, are the ips just concatenated dotted hex? or are they reversed? there's some weird reversals going on in net.h with getbyte, so wanna make sure
100 2011-01-14 00:44:13 <ArtForz> iirc you get quite a few "impossible" IPs if you ose the wrong endianness
101 2011-01-14 00:44:18 <ArtForz> *use
102 2011-01-14 00:44:44 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
103 2011-01-14 00:45:17 <Tritonio> are thre any win binaries for gpu miners?
104 2011-01-14 00:47:53 <nanotube> ArtForz: well i guess there's nothing for it but to just try and see what's the dealio. :)
105 2011-01-14 00:48:17 <nanotube> Tritonio: yes iirc momchil's miner at least does have a win bin
106 2011-01-14 00:48:32 <molecular> a newbie question: are FPGAs suitable for mining?
107 2011-01-14 00:48:51 <Tritonio> nanotube: thank you. :-)
108 2011-01-14 00:48:59 <ArtForz> LOL
109 2011-01-14 00:49:00 <ArtForz> http://www.wpacracker.com/
110 2011-01-14 00:49:32 <ArtForz> WPA/WPA2 bruteforce using a 136 million PW dictionary in "only" 20 minutes on their *massive* GPU cluster
111 2011-01-14 00:49:53 <nanotube> molecular: yes but they're too expensive.
112 2011-01-14 00:50:18 <molecular> nanotube: would you need big ones to fit the algo?
113 2011-01-14 00:50:42 <ArtForz> ONE 5970 takes about 30m for that
114 2011-01-14 00:50:54 <nanotube> ArtForz: knows all about it. :)
115 2011-01-14 00:50:59 <nanotube> molecular: --^
116 2011-01-14 00:51:17 <ArtForz> you need pretty big ones to fit a unrolled block
117 2011-01-14 00:51:35 <ArtForz> the biggest spartan6 is too small to fit 2 unrolled sha2 rounds
118 2011-01-14 00:51:53 <ArtForz> it would barely fit in a virtex6 SLX195
119 2011-01-14 00:52:01 <ArtForz> but virtexes are way too expensive
120 2011-01-14 00:52:18 <ArtForz> err... not rounds, blocks
121 2011-01-14 00:52:37 <ArtForz> so you use only one unrolled sha2 block and wrap it in state logic to alternate beween doing first and second block
122 2011-01-14 00:52:48 <ArtForz> problem is, now you only do 1 PW / 2 clocks
123 2011-01-14 00:53:07 <ArtForz> and doing anything complex in a S6 means you're looking at ~ 100MHz clock
124 2011-01-14 00:53:17 <ArtForz> well, 150 if you're REALLY lucky
125 2011-01-14 00:53:20 <molecular> if it would fit, would that mean one could generate one hash / clock cycle?
126 2011-01-14 00:53:25 <ArtForz> yes
127 2011-01-14 00:54:13 <molecular> ok, so gpus are way more cost-effective
128 2011-01-14 00:54:52 <ArtForz> one Virtex6 LX195 = $1600
129 2011-01-14 00:55:02 <ArtForz> and gets about 200Mh/s
130 2011-01-14 00:55:31 <ArtForz> = you need 3 to be as fast as a single $500 HD5970
131 2011-01-14 00:55:44 <nevezen> wow, you can get an adapter and fit a 16x PCIe into a 1x?
132 2011-01-14 00:55:56 <ArtForz> yep
133 2011-01-14 00:56:03 <tcatm> You don't even need an adapter :)
134 2011-01-14 00:56:25 <ArtForz> so it's $4800 vs. $500
135 2011-01-14 00:56:26 <nevezen> but you'd have to shave off some of the connectors?
136 2011-01-14 00:56:32 <tcatm> yep ;)
137 2011-01-14 00:56:40 <nevezen> risky
138 2011-01-14 00:56:47 <ArtForz> not really
139 2011-01-14 00:56:54 <ArtForz> all you'Re risking is a $15 PCIe extender
140 2011-01-14 00:57:09 <ArtForz> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
141 2011-01-14 00:57:32 <nevezen> it won't be good as a video card anymore? Just exclusively for gpgpu crunching?
142 2011-01-14 00:57:36 <ArtForz> okay, he paid $35, you can get em for $15 incl .shipping from china
143 2011-01-14 00:57:46 <ArtForz> huH?
144 2011-01-14 00:57:52 <ArtForz> it's stil the same vid card
145 2011-01-14 00:59:07 <nevezen> does a x1 have the same bandwidth as a x16?
146 2011-01-14 00:59:12 <ArtForz> nope
147 2011-01-14 00:59:16 <ArtForz> it has... about 1/16th
148 2011-01-14 01:00:48 <nevezen> so it won't be good for playing games, what most people would intend
149 2011-01-14 01:01:03 <ArtForz> it's also only nedded for putting mroe than one GPU in a box
150 2011-01-14 01:01:22 <ArtForz> = just use the first card for gaming
151 2011-01-14 01:01:38 <ArtForz> who cares if the other 3 inactive cards are on x1 buses
152 2011-01-14 01:02:07 <nevezen> would it benefit me at all if I left the gpu card alone for number crunching and used instead the integrated video on the mobo?
153 2011-01-14 01:02:39 <nevezen> in terms of btc mining
154 2011-01-14 01:02:56 <ArtForz> dunno
155 2011-01-14 01:03:14 <ArtForz> I'm running dedicated miner boxes
156 2011-01-14 01:03:38 <tcatm> nevezen: I used to do that so it works.
157 2011-01-14 01:04:30 <nevezen> well is there a difference in performance between the card that's being used for gaming and the other 3 for mining?
158 2011-01-14 01:05:06 <ArtForz> yes
159 2011-01-14 01:05:17 <ArtForz> x16 vas x1 makes a bit of a difference
160 2011-01-14 01:05:21 <ArtForz> it's pretty small though
161 2011-01-14 01:05:47 <luke-jr> $(*#
162 2011-01-14 01:06:10 <luke-jr> none of Intel's new Sandy Bridge motherboards support VT-d required to connect hardware to VMs
163 2011-01-14 01:06:25 <luke-jr> if I want to do that, I need to wait until March for their Q67 chipset
164 2011-01-14 01:06:30 <ArtForz> isn't intel great
165 2011-01-14 01:06:56 <ArtForz> especially as the chipset doesn't even fucking handle VT-D on those
166 2011-01-14 01:07:14 <luke-jr> ?
167 2011-01-14 01:07:19 <ArtForz> *northbridge* has to handle VT-D
168 2011-01-14 01:07:29 <ArtForz> guess where that one went with sandy bridge?
169 2011-01-14 01:07:35 <luke-jr> into the CPU
170 2011-01-14 01:07:39 <ArtForz> yep
171 2011-01-14 01:07:45 <luke-jr> so you're saying it's all marketting and VT-d will work?
172 2011-01-14 01:08:01 <ArtForz> well, if you can somehow hack the BIOS to activate it, yes
173 2011-01-14 01:08:09 <luke-jr> o
174 2011-01-14 01:08:22 <luke-jr> I guess no coreboot for a while XD
175 2011-01-14 01:08:25 <ArtForz> same way most AMD desktop boards "dont support" ECC ram even though they have the physical lines
176 2011-01-14 01:08:38 <ArtForz> BIOS just has no option to activate it
177 2011-01-14 01:08:59 <luke-jr> sigh
178 2011-01-14 01:09:05 <ArtForz> manually poke the proper CPU registers and hey, ECC support
179 2011-01-14 01:09:18 <ArtForz> fun part about that one: you can do that live from within linux
180 2011-01-14 01:10:41 <ArtForz> basically switch off ECC error reporting, switch on scrubbing with highest speed, wait a few seconds until it has written all ECC bits, switch scrubbing back to normal speed, clear error counter, switch on error reporting
181 2011-01-14 01:10:47 AAA_awright_ has joined
182 2011-01-14 01:11:34 <ArtForz> poke a bit line - hey look, EDAC message in syslog and mail to admin
183 2011-01-14 01:11:56 <ArtForz> ... with a $50 Asrock board :P
184 2011-01-14 01:12:02 <luke-jr> so is NewEgg down�
185 2011-01-14 01:12:27 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
186 2011-01-14 01:15:02 lucky has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
187 2011-01-14 01:18:03 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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189 2011-01-14 01:37:20 <fabianhjr> would anyone be interested in a 20 BTC/month basic web hosting?(2 GB space - 10GB transfer)
190 2011-01-14 01:38:49 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
191 2011-01-14 01:38:56 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: make it 20 btc/mo vps? =)
192 2011-01-14 01:39:30 <fabianhjr> Cusipzzz: sorry, only CPanel and FTP. xD
193 2011-01-14 01:40:36 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: ahh
194 2011-01-14 01:41:37 <fabianhjr> Anyways, what are you searching for Cusipzzz? 256 MB RAM?
195 2011-01-14 01:41:49 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: small VPS
196 2011-01-14 01:41:59 <fabianhjr> Cusipzzz: could you describe it?
197 2011-01-14 01:42:37 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: 256-512: 10-20gb
198 2011-01-14 01:43:01 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: choice of distro, free panel
199 2011-01-14 01:43:33 <fabianhjr> Would you mind no backups?
200 2011-01-14 01:43:42 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: that's fine...not managed obv
201 2011-01-14 01:44:02 <fabianhjr> Bandwidth or transfer?
202 2011-01-14 01:44:28 <Cusipzzz> not a ton, 500gb+
203 2011-01-14 01:44:51 lucky has joined
204 2011-01-14 01:46:02 <fabianhjr> I will see if I can find something. 500GB/Gb/gb? Monthly or annually?
205 2011-01-14 01:46:22 <Cusipzzz> fabianhjr: that's even a lot.. 200GB/mo+
206 2011-01-14 01:46:30 <Cusipzzz> will not be using much
207 2011-01-14 01:48:13 <fabianhjr> So 10Mbps is fine?
208 2011-01-14 01:48:24 <fabianhjr> (Unmetered)
209 2011-01-14 01:48:30 <Cusipzzz> yes
210 2011-01-14 01:52:41 acous has joined
211 2011-01-14 01:52:41 acous has quit (Changing host)
212 2011-01-14 01:52:41 acous has joined
213 2011-01-14 01:55:03 <luke-jr> fabianhjr: fail
214 2011-01-14 01:55:30 <fabianhjr> luke-jr: why?!
215 2011-01-14 01:55:41 <luke-jr> fabianhjr: I have VPS for 27 BTC/mo :p
216 2011-01-14 01:56:10 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: last time i looked it was like 40 ?
217 2011-01-14 01:56:18 <fabianhjr> :/ And? How those that make me fail?
218 2011-01-14 01:56:30 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: hasn't changed
219 2011-01-14 01:56:42 <luke-jr> fabianhjr: 20 BTC/mo for just web? :P
220 2011-01-14 01:56:53 <Cusipzzz> hmm, maybe i'm mistaken, extra for IP or something?
221 2011-01-14 01:57:06 <luke-jr> if you need IPv4, 7 BTC more
222 2011-01-14 01:57:14 <Cusipzzz> ahh, that was it. and yes.
223 2011-01-14 01:57:26 <luke-jr> this is 2011. lrn2IPv6 :p
224 2011-01-14 01:57:28 <Cusipzzz> http://www.lowendbox.com/ - looking for the equiv, in BTC.
225 2011-01-14 01:57:32 <Cusipzzz> lol
226 2011-01-14 01:58:35 <Cusipzzz> 34 btc is > $10/mo ...steep =)
227 2011-01-14 01:59:08 <luke-jr> 10 GBP is > $10/mo too :p
228 2011-01-14 01:59:13 <Cusipzzz> lol
229 2011-01-14 01:59:35 <Cusipzzz> not for long...Sterling is a goner, with the rest o europe soon =)
230 2011-01-14 01:59:42 <luke-jr> lol
231 2011-01-14 01:59:46 <noagendamarket> :)
232 2011-01-14 01:59:51 <luke-jr> GBP tends to be > USD
233 2011-01-14 02:00:03 <Cusipzzz> whenbarclays went under, got close to even iirc
234 2011-01-14 02:00:11 <fabianhjr> I have to go now. See you later.
235 2011-01-14 02:01:20 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
236 2011-01-14 02:04:36 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
237 2011-01-14 02:46:55 <nevezen> what's the minimum (if any) confirmations required to make a transaction valid?
238 2011-01-14 02:47:56 <luke-jr> nevezen: that's up to the recipientâº
239 2011-01-14 02:48:04 <Cusipzzz> some people take 1, some like 3+
240 2011-01-14 02:48:13 <luke-jr> ArtForz: have you ever tried sandbagging?
241 2011-01-14 02:50:47 <Cusipzzz> 3 is good, in case you are surrounded by bad guys, lol
242 2011-01-14 02:57:25 * kiba` is dismayed that SyFy canceled Stargate Universe
243 2011-01-14 02:59:13 <nevezen> same here
244 2011-01-14 02:59:41 <nevezen> saw the last few episodes of caprica and thought it closed the first season well..
245 2011-01-14 03:00:42 <kiba`> they got the ULIMATE MISSION!
246 2011-01-14 03:01:00 <kiba`> this is stuff that science fiction is made for! Knowledge, exploration, etc
247 2011-01-14 03:01:24 <kiba`> I want to know what they will find out
248 2011-01-14 03:02:35 <nevezen> it's a shame sgu is cancelled
249 2011-01-14 03:02:42 <andrew12> I feel so cool now that I actually spent money for bitcoins =o
250 2011-01-14 03:02:46 <nevezen> syfy is no longer cool
251 2011-01-14 03:02:48 <andrew12> s/=o/=p/
252 2011-01-14 03:03:23 <andrew12> nevezen: they stopped being cool when they renamed themselves from scifi to syfy.
253 2011-01-14 03:03:28 satamusic has joined
254 2011-01-14 03:04:37 <nevezen> sgu will be the last show I watch once they release the last few episodes
255 2011-01-14 03:04:59 <kiba`> for the love of god, why do they stop the show in mid-week?
256 2011-01-14 03:05:12 <kiba`> err
257 2011-01-14 03:05:15 <kiba`> mid-season?
258 2011-01-14 03:06:30 lfm has quit (Quit: Leaving)
259 2011-01-14 03:06:51 <molecular> ;;bc,mtgox
260 2011-01-14 03:06:52 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.405,"low":0.3176,"vol":14628,"buy":0.32,"sell":0.355,"last":0.365}}
261 2011-01-14 03:11:03 <kiba`> nevezen: a lot of people hate SGU though. I like it.
262 2011-01-14 03:11:27 lfm has joined
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269 2011-01-14 03:47:32 <nevezen> I like it. I just hate syfy (the company)
270 2011-01-14 03:49:17 <kiba`> well
271 2011-01-14 03:49:24 <kiba`> I have a movie to look forward to
272 2011-01-14 03:49:26 <kiba`> Gantz
273 2011-01-14 03:49:36 <kiba`> most badass sci-fi manga I ever read
274 2011-01-14 03:52:45 AAA_awright_ has joined
275 2011-01-14 03:55:19 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
276 2011-01-14 03:58:07 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
277 2011-01-14 04:16:36 * luke-jr ponders whether to wait till March for VT-d support, or just nevermind the whole idea
278 2011-01-14 04:18:04 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
279 2011-01-14 04:18:36 AAA_awright_ has joined
280 2011-01-14 04:20:31 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
281 2011-01-14 04:23:05 <kiba`> nothing like bad news raining on your favorite fiction
282 2011-01-14 04:27:48 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
283 2011-01-14 04:31:48 <xelister> nanotube: hi, around?
284 2011-01-14 04:31:56 <nanotube> yo xelister
285 2011-01-14 04:36:36 <nevezen> so someone with lots of the network's cpu power (or I guess mostly gpu's now) can "prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations"
286 2011-01-14 04:37:04 <nevezen> that's mildly amusing
287 2011-01-14 04:39:10 chuck251 has quit ()
288 2011-01-14 04:40:26 <nanotube> nevezen: that's if they have >50% of total network compute power
289 2011-01-14 04:41:34 <nevezen> I'm assuming it's already been accomplished?
290 2011-01-14 04:46:28 <lfm> I dont think it has happened
291 2011-01-14 04:49:14 <nevezen> so people who use gpgpu for mining still represent a fraction of the total network of computing power?
292 2011-01-14 04:49:26 <nanotube> total network power is about 150 ghps now
293 2011-01-14 04:49:39 <nanotube> as far as we know, nobody has >50% of that.
294 2011-01-14 04:49:47 <nanotube> or if they do, they're not using it to prevent tx confirmations. :)
295 2011-01-14 04:51:56 <lfm> "people who use gpu for mining" are not all working together.
296 2011-01-14 04:54:38 <kiba`> the most fatal weakness of libertarianism is the inability to work together
297 2011-01-14 04:55:23 <hacim> so that is how the gov. can shut it down
298 2011-01-14 04:55:25 <kiba`> the zeal for consistency is a nice trait though
299 2011-01-14 04:56:43 <kiba`> one of the only idealogy that I know of that doesn't kill itself through hypocriscy
300 2011-01-14 05:01:54 <mrb_> 16:18 < ArtForz> I suspect thats 400k SHA1 iterations per second, or about 40k PBKDF2 hashes/s
301 2011-01-14 05:01:59 <mrb_> No, the author really means 400k PBKDF2 hashes/s: he quoted numbers of 8 EC2 GPU instances (can be deducted from his "28 cents/min quote" since a single instance is 3.5 cents/min)
302 2011-01-14 05:02:47 <mrb_> 16:21 < ArtForz> a 5970 can test about 80k PW/s
303 2011-01-14 05:02:56 <mrb_> actually a 5970 can do 145k PBKDF2 hashes/s (the pyrit devs have not updated their benchmark graph in a while), so 3 5970s would beat 8 EC2 GPU instances :)
304 2011-01-14 05:04:26 <xelister> 5970 > sex
305 2011-01-14 05:05:29 <nevezen> is the 5970 the latest?
306 2011-01-14 05:05:47 <mrb_> nope, but it's the fastest
307 2011-01-14 05:06:10 <nevezen> faster than newer stuff?
308 2011-01-14 05:06:50 <mrb_> yes, because AMD has not finished releasing all the newer 6xxx models
309 2011-01-14 05:07:18 <mrb_> they do this over a couple months, so the 5970 will be dethroned in ~1 month by the 6990
310 2011-01-14 05:07:23 <nevezen> so the 5970 is the best bang for the buck at the moment
311 2011-01-14 05:08:21 <mrb_> pretty much. although some lower-end GPUs are so cheap they may beat it in terms of perf/$ by a small margin
312 2011-01-14 05:09:45 <nevezen> what's the maximum output seen so far of a single 5970?
313 2011-01-14 05:09:52 <mrb_> output of what?
314 2011-01-14 05:09:59 <nevezen> hash/s
315 2011-01-14 05:10:04 <mrb_> Bitcoin hash/s?
316 2011-01-14 05:10:06 <nevezen> yes
317 2011-01-14 05:10:17 <mrb_> 570 Mhash/s for one 5970
318 2011-01-14 05:10:40 <lfm> 600 or more with overclocking I think
319 2011-01-14 05:10:41 <nevezen> damn
320 2011-01-14 05:11:41 <nevezen> SLI/crossfire won't make it go faster?
321 2011-01-14 05:11:58 <mrb_> 2 x 5970 makes it 2 x faster
322 2011-01-14 05:12:16 <nevezen> but it's not running in parallel is it?
323 2011-01-14 05:12:25 <mrb_> yes, in parallel
324 2011-01-14 05:12:28 <lfm> they all can be used but it doesnt help to cross connect them
325 2011-01-14 05:12:43 <nevezen> yeah, that's what I meant
326 2011-01-14 05:12:49 <mrb_> correct, crossfire can (and should be) disabled to scale on multiple GPUs
327 2011-01-14 05:13:09 <nevezen> same with SLI/nvidia?
328 2011-01-14 05:13:12 <mrb_> to allow the software to see the multiple GPUs and handle them independently
329 2011-01-14 05:13:20 <mrb_> not sure about SLI. I don't use Nvidia.
330 2011-01-14 05:18:36 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
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335 2011-01-14 05:44:56 ArtForz has joined
336 2011-01-14 06:05:47 grondilu has joined
337 2011-01-14 06:16:44 <grondilu> I'm stuck with euros on bitcoin-central. Nobody wants to sell bitcoins :(
338 2011-01-14 06:17:56 <nanotube> they do, just not at a good price. :)
339 2011-01-14 06:19:20 <xelister> grondilu: I may want
340 2011-01-14 06:19:26 <grondilu> good
341 2011-01-14 06:19:40 <xelister> (or I know someone)
342 2011-01-14 06:19:46 <xelister> you wire EUR to IBAN account?
343 2011-01-14 06:19:54 <xelister> s/wire/make bank transfer
344 2011-01-14 06:20:02 <grondilu> no I'm talking about orders on bitcoin-central
345 2011-01-14 06:20:07 <xelister> hmm
346 2011-01-14 06:20:17 <xelister> what is that site btw? creditable?
347 2011-01-14 06:20:32 <grondilu> It's davout's site
348 2011-01-14 06:20:41 <nanotube> xelister: yes, so far credible. code is foss, too
349 2011-01-14 06:20:58 <grondilu> It's an open-source plateform indeed
350 2011-01-14 06:21:04 <grondilu> and the guy is cool so far
351 2011-01-14 06:21:39 <grondilu> I have a 0.29 EUR/BTC bid
352 2011-01-14 06:22:26 <nanotube> ;;google calc .29 eur in usd
353 2011-01-14 06:22:26 <gribble> .29 euros = 0.3869 US dollars
354 2011-01-14 06:22:34 <nanotube> oh, pretty decent.
355 2011-01-14 06:26:08 <xelister> I wonder if the price will level off and 0.40 .. and continue to rise?
356 2011-01-14 06:26:15 <xelister> 1.00 USD this year? what you think ;)
357 2011-01-14 06:26:25 <nanotube> a year is a long time. could be. :)
358 2011-01-14 06:27:07 <nanotube> if barriers to entry go down, and people can more easily convert fiat to bitcoin, definitely possible.
359 2011-01-14 06:29:44 <kiba`> 2 USD for each bitcoin this year!
360 2011-01-14 06:30:34 <kiba`> that's the new year's resolution bitcoin set for itself
361 2011-01-14 06:31:05 <kiba`> and we as vessel of bitcoin shall help bitcoin achevie said goal!
362 2011-01-14 06:31:51 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
363 2011-01-14 06:31:56 <kiba`> good night
364 2011-01-14 06:36:29 kiba` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
365 2011-01-14 06:37:26 <lfm> actually just as btc nears maybe 50 cents it will stall and crash
366 2011-01-14 07:01:08 <Diablo-D3> http://i.imgur.com/rGtgr.jpg
367 2011-01-14 07:07:16 <lfm> good one
368 2011-01-14 07:08:53 <Diablo-D3> http://www.fark.com/comments/5882643?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+fark%2FHifS+%28Pluck%27s+redirected+Fark+feed%29
369 2011-01-14 07:09:12 <Diablo-D3> see Barbigazi's pots
370 2011-01-14 07:09:14 <Diablo-D3> its near the top
371 2011-01-14 07:12:07 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
372 2011-01-14 07:12:24 <Diablo-D3> I dunno, as for Jesuses go, Obama wouldnt be a bad one
373 2011-01-14 07:12:25 akem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
374 2011-01-14 07:21:00 Guest80686 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
375 2011-01-14 07:22:46 james has joined
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377 2011-01-14 07:27:29 Slix` has quit (Quit: { throw std::runtime_error("Client got bored of IRC."); })
378 2011-01-14 07:31:19 nevezen has quit (Quit: leaving)
379 2011-01-14 07:33:03 nevezen has joined
380 2011-01-14 07:33:07 <xelister> what the fuck?
381 2011-01-14 07:33:09 <xelister> She was shot through the head at point-blank range
382 2011-01-14 07:33:19 <xelister> and now she opens eyes, move hands etc???
383 2011-01-14 07:33:28 <xelister> bullet went throuh the brain, right?
384 2011-01-14 07:33:56 <nevezen> she's still alive?
385 2011-01-14 07:37:39 <mrb_> "The bullet had passed through Giffords' head without crossing the midline of the brain, where the most critical injuries result."
386 2011-01-14 07:38:12 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
387 2011-01-14 07:38:49 <xelister> mrb_: yeah but wtf it obviously took out probably at least 5% of brain mass, destroying like anothre 5%
388 2011-01-14 07:39:01 <xelister> so at best she will be a vegetable?
389 2011-01-14 07:39:30 davex__ has joined
390 2011-01-14 07:40:03 <mrb_> I don't know. I am amazed she is alive.
391 2011-01-14 07:49:24 TheAncientGoat has joined
392 2011-01-14 08:00:58 akem has joined
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395 2011-01-14 08:08:25 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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398 2011-01-14 08:43:21 Tritonio has joined
399 2011-01-14 08:44:43 reQunix has joined
400 2011-01-14 08:47:04 slush has joined
401 2011-01-14 08:49:59 <slush> hi, when I want to use two PSUs for one computer (errm, for example, third GPU), is there something special what I should do? For example, connect grounds of those PSUs?
402 2011-01-14 09:02:02 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: sytem takeover shutting down all pc's Aperturescience is now in full controll thank you please exit through the portal have a nice day!)
403 2011-01-14 09:06:07 <Diablo-D3> slush: you get a starter for the second PSU
404 2011-01-14 09:06:12 <Diablo-D3> ask art
405 2011-01-14 09:06:51 <slush> Diablo-D3: 'starter'?
406 2011-01-14 09:07:01 <slush> ok, I'll ask
407 2011-01-14 09:07:16 <Diablo-D3> a plug you put on it to make it startup
408 2011-01-14 09:07:25 <Diablo-D3> you really just have to bridge two pins with something but meh
409 2011-01-14 09:07:44 <slush> oh, connect 'start' pin in ATX header, right?
410 2011-01-14 09:10:37 <Diablo-D3> yeah
411 2011-01-14 09:19:02 asdf58 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
412 2011-01-14 09:32:54 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
413 2011-01-14 09:58:09 altamic has joined
414 2011-01-14 10:06:25 <slush> Diablo-D3: I have one feature request to your miner (to others too, but you are online now :) ).
415 2011-01-14 10:06:37 <slush> Diablo-D3: Add gzip support for getwork
416 2011-01-14 10:07:13 <slush> (It should be already in some batter-included library for HTTP in java)
417 2011-01-14 10:07:18 <slush> *battery
418 2011-01-14 10:07:37 <Diablo-D3> erm
419 2011-01-14 10:07:43 <Diablo-D3> it should already work
420 2011-01-14 10:07:58 <Diablo-D3> make sure you're adding gzip properly to the http headers
421 2011-01-14 10:08:19 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
422 2011-01-14 10:08:31 <slush> are you sending Accept-Encoding: gzip in headers?
423 2011-01-14 10:08:40 <Diablo-D3> Im not sending anything
424 2011-01-14 10:08:41 <Diablo-D3> thats up to java
425 2011-01-14 10:08:45 <slush> and that's all
426 2011-01-14 10:09:00 <slush> I cannot response with gzip when miner don't allow it...
427 2011-01-14 10:09:11 <Diablo-D3> except Im pretty sure java is already sending it
428 2011-01-14 10:09:12 <slush> please take a look, it should be very easy to allow..
429 2011-01-14 10:09:28 <Diablo-D3> if java isnt adding it, file a bug report with Oracle
430 2011-01-14 10:10:45 <slush> do you know what content type is miner sending? (sorry, I'm not on console now)
431 2011-01-14 10:10:56 <Diablo-D3> nope.
432 2011-01-14 10:11:10 altamic has joined
433 2011-01-14 10:11:31 <joe_1> who here hates wikipedia
434 2011-01-14 10:11:42 <Diablo-D3> I dont.
435 2011-01-14 10:12:32 <Tritonio> joe_1: are you thinking of the deletion of bitcoin's article?
436 2011-01-14 10:12:40 <Diablo-D3> slush: does your server have gzip enabled?
437 2011-01-14 10:13:02 <slush> yep, but I changed configuration slightly, so I will see
438 2011-01-14 10:13:10 <slush> I have to check content types, which miners are sending
439 2011-01-14 10:13:24 <Diablo-D3> I can probably force it on, but ick
440 2011-01-14 10:13:48 <slush> I'll check http headers which you send
441 2011-01-14 10:14:02 <Tritonio> ick?
442 2011-01-14 10:14:13 <joe_1> wikipedia is deleting everything now, and it's pointless
443 2011-01-14 10:14:14 <Diablo-D3> Tritonio: yes, slush is trying to bloat my app
444 2011-01-14 10:14:19 <slush> ..if there will be appropriate accept-encoding, then it will be on my side, probably
445 2011-01-14 10:14:34 <Tritonio> Diablo-D3: what doesn ick mean?
446 2011-01-14 10:14:56 <Diablo-D3> it means ick.
447 2011-01-14 10:15:34 <Tritonio> joe_1: what are they deleting? They probably want only the best articles left, I agree it's bad. They could just mark them and not view them by default. But I preffer a crappy and biased article than no article at all...
448 2011-01-14 10:15:44 <AAA_awright> Short for icky.
449 2011-01-14 10:16:01 <AAA_awright> Short for yucky.
450 2011-01-14 10:16:09 <Tritonio> AAA_awright: aha..... :-)
451 2011-01-14 10:17:10 <AAA_awright> A regional thing as far as I know, like wicked good and such
452 2011-01-14 10:17:11 <joe_1> one thing they're attacking is lists, which used to be very useful for many articles
453 2011-01-14 10:17:50 * Diablo-D3 tries a change
454 2011-01-14 10:18:18 <joe_1> what is wxwidgets and how does bitcoin use it
455 2011-01-14 10:18:30 <Diablo-D3> its a ui toolkit wrapper
456 2011-01-14 10:18:35 <Rhonda> huhm, I have a host that has vmware-hostd running on port 8333 - how can I get bitcoind started there? :)
457 2011-01-14 10:18:37 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: you need to google.
458 2011-01-14 10:18:47 <Diablo-D3> Rhonda: tell vmware to use a different port
459 2011-01-14 10:19:02 <Rhonda> Diablo-D3: Can't I tell bitcoind to use a different port?
460 2011-01-14 10:19:26 <Diablo-D3> no
461 2011-01-14 10:19:35 <Diablo-D3> no other client would be able to connect to you
462 2011-01-14 10:19:44 <slush> that's crappy
463 2011-01-14 10:22:44 <lolcat> not really
464 2011-01-14 10:23:01 <lolcat> That means I only have to open one port to use bitcoin
465 2011-01-14 10:26:49 <slush> wow, I see that many miners are behind tor. That must be slow as hell.
466 2011-01-14 10:27:12 <Diablo-D3> hwh
467 2011-01-14 10:27:27 <slush> ...and explain a lot why many workers submit >30s old jobs
468 2011-01-14 10:27:49 <slush> ...so best time to switch pool algorithm to count only effective jobs :)
469 2011-01-14 10:28:59 <dsg> slush: Do you have any data on how much inefficiency is incurred due to tor delays for those miners?
470 2011-01-14 10:29:41 <slush> I don't know about stats for tor miners, but pool overhead for working on innefective data is between 2-3%
471 2011-01-14 10:29:50 <slush> which is slightly more than expected (1-2%)
472 2011-01-14 10:30:16 <slush> mostly because people set their miners to nonstandard settings (tor, crunching one job for longer time and so)
473 2011-01-14 10:32:04 <dsg> ok, not too bad.
474 2011-01-14 10:34:45 <joe_1> diablo why do you like wikipedia
475 2011-01-14 10:35:24 <Diablo-D3> for the porn, clearly.
476 2011-01-14 10:35:27 <joe_1> the whole point of a _wiki_ pedia is to get that information that you _wouldn't_ find in a real encyclopedia-- and that's exactly what they're deleting all the time.
477 2011-01-14 10:36:14 <lolcat> Are bitcoin in wikipedia yet?
478 2011-01-14 10:36:25 <joe_1> after a huge fight it was included yes
479 2011-01-14 10:36:47 reQunix has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
480 2011-01-14 10:42:12 <lolcat> Nice
481 2011-01-14 10:42:21 <lolcat> Now I know what bitcoin is
482 2011-01-14 10:45:13 <lolcat> Wbat is fivegrinder
483 2011-01-14 10:45:15 <lolcat> ?
484 2011-01-14 10:45:40 <joe_1> 5grinder? isn't that some link on mt gox
485 2011-01-14 10:45:54 <Tritonio> yeap. :-)
486 2011-01-14 10:47:07 <lolcat> I don't udnerstand it though
487 2011-01-14 10:47:13 * Tritonio wonders why he put a smilie.
488 2011-01-14 10:48:19 <joe_1> i would just sit back and wait for it to get popular, then ask someone what it is
489 2011-01-14 10:50:14 * lolcat waits
490 2011-01-14 10:55:08 <Diablo-D3> slush: is pool down?
491 2011-01-14 10:57:41 <Diablo-D3> nm
492 2011-01-14 10:59:33 <slush> Diablo-D3: don't think so
493 2011-01-14 10:59:46 <Diablo-D3> no, you just turned gzip off
494 2011-01-14 10:59:56 <slush> yes, as test
495 2011-01-14 11:01:21 <lolcat> How big does the bitcoind run?
496 2011-01-14 11:01:25 <slush> will be back in few minutes
497 2011-01-14 11:02:07 <lolcat> LIke, will it use a gazzilion rams?
498 2011-01-14 11:02:15 <lolcat> Or will it fit on my vps?
499 2011-01-14 11:02:15 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: it uses nearly none
500 2011-01-14 11:02:33 <Diablo-D3> iirc its less than 32m
501 2011-01-14 11:02:33 <lolcat> I have only 256
502 2011-01-14 11:03:07 <lolcat> Can you point me in the direction for the XMPLC or whatever and pho docs?
503 2011-01-14 11:03:14 <lolcat> php*
504 2011-01-14 11:03:46 <Diablo-D3> wtf is a XMPLC?
505 2011-01-14 11:03:56 <lolcat> A socket thing
506 2011-01-14 11:04:05 <niekie> xmlrpc
507 2011-01-14 11:04:09 <lolcat> Used to connect webpages to websites
508 2011-01-14 11:04:17 <lolcat> niekie: That sounds rigth
509 2011-01-14 11:04:27 <lolcat> Does bitcoin support xmlrpc?
510 2011-01-14 11:04:31 <niekie> Yes.
511 2011-01-14 11:04:33 <Diablo-D3> no
512 2011-01-14 11:04:37 <Diablo-D3> we dont use xmlrpc.
513 2011-01-14 11:04:38 <niekie> Wait.
514 2011-01-14 11:04:42 <Diablo-D3> we use jsonrpc.
515 2011-01-14 11:04:45 <niekie> JSONRPC yeah.
516 2011-01-14 11:04:54 <slush> Diablo-D3: gzip compression is back
517 2011-01-14 11:04:54 <lolcat> Is it a lot difficulter?
518 2011-01-14 11:04:58 <niekie> Nah :)
519 2011-01-14 11:05:12 <lolcat> Can php do it?
520 2011-01-14 11:05:16 <niekie> Yes.
521 2011-01-14 11:05:17 <slush> Diablo-D3: It does not affect almost nothing, which means miners are not using gzip now
522 2011-01-14 11:05:44 <Diablo-D3> slush: but mine is.
523 2011-01-14 11:05:46 <niekie> http://jsonrpcphp.org/
524 2011-01-14 11:06:30 noagendamarket has joined
525 2011-01-14 11:06:37 <slush> Diablo-D3: I see only 100kbit/s rise in traffic, which is about 10%
526 2011-01-14 11:06:50 <slush> So I cannot say it is nothing, but nothing important
527 2011-01-14 11:06:51 <lolcat> Then I need a good database that uses no ram
528 2011-01-14 11:06:54 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
529 2011-01-14 11:06:54 noagendamarket has joined
530 2011-01-14 11:07:05 <Diablo-D3> slush: except I just added it.
531 2011-01-14 11:07:09 drazak has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
532 2011-01-14 11:07:28 ApertureScience has joined
533 2011-01-14 11:07:55 <lolcat> MAybe I should use cassandra php5 and json rpc
534 2011-01-14 11:07:58 <lolcat> And ajax!
535 2011-01-14 11:07:59 <slush> Diablo-D3: oh, you added it now in trunk, right?
536 2011-01-14 11:08:17 drazak has joined
537 2011-01-14 11:08:26 <Diablo-D3> btw, you know what the most annoying sound ever is?
538 2011-01-14 11:08:28 <slush> Diablo-D3: Great
539 2011-01-14 11:08:30 <lolcat> Can I have several rpc sockets?
540 2011-01-14 11:08:40 <Diablo-D3> that fucking fairy from zelda game
541 2011-01-14 11:08:42 <Diablo-D3> HEY!
542 2011-01-14 11:08:43 <Diablo-D3> LOOK!
543 2011-01-14 11:08:43 <Diablo-D3> HEY!
544 2011-01-14 11:08:45 <Diablo-D3> HEY!
545 2011-01-14 11:08:59 <Diablo-D3> RAAAAAAAARGH INFINITE ANGER PILEDRIVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
546 2011-01-14 11:09:39 <niekie> o.O
547 2011-01-14 11:10:23 <joe_1> what would happen if we made blocks get generated every minute instead of every 10 minutes
548 2011-01-14 11:10:24 <CIA-106> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r5d07458 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Made network code more robust - http://bit.ly/hqxRWM
549 2011-01-14 11:10:27 <Diablo-D3> http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Navi
550 2011-01-14 11:10:29 <Diablo-D3> that cunt
551 2011-01-14 11:10:38 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: nothing.
552 2011-01-14 11:10:50 <sipa> joe_1: the number of stale blocks would increase
553 2011-01-14 11:11:03 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: the clients maintain the difficulty calculation
554 2011-01-14 11:11:06 <Diablo-D3> so you cant actually force it
555 2011-01-14 11:11:36 <joe_1> i know you cant force it, but i guess what i'm saying is, was it a poor design choice to make the difficulty based on such a long time duration target?
556 2011-01-14 11:11:42 <sipa> no
557 2011-01-14 11:12:10 <sipa> maybe it could indeed be decreased somewhat now
558 2011-01-14 11:13:05 <Diablo-D3> you could decrease it by 10
559 2011-01-14 11:13:11 <Diablo-D3> and then decrease the reward by 10
560 2011-01-14 11:13:13 <Diablo-D3> and nothing would change
561 2011-01-14 11:13:41 <joe_1> there would be benefits to a shorter duration though. less waiting for confirmations to be confident in money you're receiving
562 2011-01-14 11:13:59 <sipa> yes it would, the storage requirements would increase for clients, bandwidth usage would increase, and more stale blocks would be generated
563 2011-01-14 11:14:10 <dsg> More frequent block finding means more stringent timing requirements, and more frequent block chain splits.
564 2011-01-14 11:14:15 <dsg> indeed
565 2011-01-14 11:19:57 drazak has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
566 2011-01-14 11:21:49 <slush> Diablo-D3: thanks for gzip hack :)
567 2011-01-14 11:23:27 <slush> Diablo-D3: And I see you also fixed problem with crashed connection during request. awesome!
568 2011-01-14 11:23:56 <Diablo-D3> I did?
569 2011-01-14 11:23:59 <Diablo-D3> there was one?
570 2011-01-14 11:24:14 <slush> In new code I see  throw new IOException("Bitcoin disconnected during response");
571 2011-01-14 11:24:21 <Diablo-D3> but... thats always been there.
572 2011-01-14 11:24:30 <slush> oh, why it is "+" and green?
573 2011-01-14 11:24:32 drazak has joined
574 2011-01-14 11:24:33 <slush> In commit log
575 2011-01-14 11:24:40 <Diablo-D3> because theres a matching - next to it
576 2011-01-14 11:24:52 <molecular> another newby questions to you helpful guys: blocks 102508 thru 102607 where generated within a timespan of 14h03m, that's 8.43 minutes/block... does that mean difficulty is currently set too low? when will it be changed?
577 2011-01-14 11:25:00 <Diablo-D3> slush: actually, what the fuck are you talking about?
578 2011-01-14 11:25:07 <Diablo-D3> slush: the only lines I see cover up for the fact java sucks
579 2011-01-14 11:25:23 <slush> well, I sent you traceback before few days as forum PM
580 2011-01-14 11:25:33 <Diablo-D3> wait, what forum pms?
581 2011-01-14 11:25:56 <slush> that is traceback I occasionally have. I think it was related with some corruption connection
582 2011-01-14 11:26:57 <Diablo-D3> heh
583 2011-01-14 11:26:58 <Diablo-D3> well
584 2011-01-14 11:27:02 <Diablo-D3> I already caught all those
585 2011-01-14 11:27:05 <slush> great
586 2011-01-14 11:27:11 <lfm> moleculer difficulty is adjusted at each multiple of 2016 blocks, next at 102816 i tthink
587 2011-01-14 11:27:14 RazielZ has joined
588 2011-01-14 11:27:33 <Diablo-D3> slush: but I caught those ALL OF THOSE BEFORE
589 2011-01-14 11:28:03 <Diablo-D3> the only additional shit catches the fact your pool software sucks
590 2011-01-14 11:28:12 <slush> Ok, maybe I didn't used trunk version when I reported it
591 2011-01-14 11:28:24 <slush> :) well, it looks stable now
592 2011-01-14 11:30:03 <molecular> lfm: thanks. I'm also unclear as to wether or not (and if so how) it is decided how many blocks (how much BTC) will be generated per time. Can someone point me to some more Documentation (am looking at the paper "Bitcoin: A Peer-toPeer Electronic Cash System" and the FAQ on bitcoin.org)
593 2011-01-14 11:31:05 MT`AwAy is now known as zz_MT`AwAy
594 2011-01-14 11:31:29 <lfm> molecular all nodes use the same calulation and then the difficulty (an encoded form of it) is part of the block for verification.
595 2011-01-14 11:32:05 <lfm> molecular There may be some more explanation somewhere in the wiki or something, not sure
596 2011-01-14 11:32:10 zz_MT`AwAy is now known as MT`AwAy
597 2011-01-14 11:32:29 <molecular> lfm: ok, and the difficulty is adjusted every 2016 blocks so that 1 block will be generated by the mining business owners every ten minutes. will _that_ be changed anytime in the future?
598 2011-01-14 11:32:57 <lfm> i dont think it will be changed
599 2011-01-14 11:33:06 <molecular> lfm: thanks about the hint with the wiki... am also finding lots of info in the forums using g00gle.
600 2011-01-14 11:34:04 <molecular> lfm: but doesn't that mean that as demand for BTC grows (assumption), it's value would rise -> therefore mining would still be a very good invenstment at this point in time
601 2011-01-14 11:34:05 <molecular> ?
602 2011-01-14 11:34:34 <lfm> maybe, I am not real good at seeing the future
603 2011-01-14 11:35:13 reQunix has joined
604 2011-01-14 11:35:18 <molecular> lfm: thx a lot for you help
605 2011-01-14 11:38:10 <joe_1> molecular the total effort spent on mining will equal 50 BTC per 10 minutes. so as BTC goes up in value, total mining effort will go up.
606 2011-01-14 11:38:38 <lfm> maybe
607 2011-01-14 11:43:51 <molecular> is that 50 BTC per 10 minutes a constant or is this changeable somehow by some "bitcoin economic overlord"?
608 2011-01-14 11:44:25 <lfm> after 4 years it will be cut in half to 25 and cut in half again each 4 years
609 2011-01-14 11:45:35 <lfm> after some 150 years or something it will become zero according to the plan
610 2011-01-14 11:45:56 <molecular> so 210000*50 is half of all the BTC ever generated?
611 2011-01-14 11:46:27 <lfm> ya, something like that
612 2011-01-14 11:47:44 <sipa> molecular: there is no bitcoin economic overlord
613 2011-01-14 11:47:53 <molecular> I want to argue again that, if BTC will really be widely used some day, it's value (in USD or bread loafs) will rise dramatically because it's so scarce and everyone is holding on to their coins. High demand, low supply.
614 2011-01-14 11:48:00 <sipa> when you download the official client, you agree to the rules that are programmed in it
615 2011-01-14 11:48:04 <sipa> but you could change it
616 2011-01-14 11:48:06 <molecular> sipa: thanks for that info. I hoped so
617 2011-01-14 11:48:18 <lfm> maybe
618 2011-01-14 11:48:23 <molecular> sipa: you mean make your own BTC2 money?
619 2011-01-14 11:48:31 <sipa> although few in the network would probably accept blocks/transactions/... that are based on your own rules
620 2011-01-14 11:48:35 <sipa> yes
621 2011-01-14 11:49:12 <sgornick> molecular: and more hashing power today than yesterday means less time between blocks than yesterday ..., like 8.6 minutes versus 8.8, ..., and 8.8 yesterday versus 9.0 before. Then at the next retarget ..., it will get re-synched to a value so that it will be back to about every 10 minutes.
622 2011-01-14 11:49:14 <lfm> as the value goes up the hoarders become tempted to sell more
623 2011-01-14 11:49:55 <sipa> as long as it keeps growing, it always be on average less then 10 minutes
624 2011-01-14 11:50:14 <sipa> since the retarget is based on an average of the two weeks before, which included at that point already outdated data
625 2011-01-14 11:50:19 <molecular> About a year ago when I first saw Bitcoin, I judged this as an experiment. But now that you can exchange to any other currency and actually by (some) stuff with it. It's a real currency. This is astonishing and exciting! Fuck the banks.
626 2011-01-14 11:50:29 <molecular> s/by/buy
627 2011-01-14 11:50:55 <lfm> thats the spirit
628 2011-01-14 11:51:01 <molecular> :)
629 2011-01-14 11:51:07 <sgornick> ;;bc,estimate
630 2011-01-14 11:51:08 <gribble> 18303.43814191
631 2011-01-14 11:51:20 <sgornick> ;;bc,statistics
632 2011-01-14 11:51:21 <gribble> Error: "bc,statistics" is not a valid command.
633 2011-01-14 11:51:34 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
634 2011-01-14 11:51:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102621 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 194 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 3 hours, 48 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 18303.43814191
635 2011-01-14 11:51:59 <sgornick> thanks lfm.
636 2011-01-14 11:52:53 <molecular> ;;bc,mtgox
637 2011-01-14 11:52:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.4,"low":0.3176,"vol":16020,"buy":0.36,"sell":0.371,"last":0.36}}
638 2011-01-14 11:52:58 <sipa> the "correct" difficulty is probably almost 20000
639 2011-01-14 11:53:20 <tcatm> that has been said about 6000 before ;)
640 2011-01-14 11:53:29 <sipa> ?
641 2011-01-14 11:53:45 <tcatm> Or what did you mean by "correct"?
642 2011-01-14 11:53:47 <molecular> 18530 due to my calculation based on roughly the last 15 hours
643 2011-01-14 11:54:30 <sipa> tcatm: the difficulty that corresponds to my estimate of the total instantaneous hashing speed now :)
644 2011-01-14 11:54:48 <tcatm> ah, thought you mean the "final" difficulty
645 2011-01-14 11:54:52 <sipa> no no
646 2011-01-14 11:55:41 <lfm> the shorter the interval you base your estimate on the less accurate it will probably be
647 2011-01-14 11:56:10 <sipa> it's based on an exponential window over the past few days, and compensates for growth during that window itself
648 2011-01-14 11:56:20 <sipa> so it's not just an average
649 2011-01-14 11:57:15 <molecular> Mining with a small cpu is like playing the lottery: most of the time you loose :)
650 2011-01-14 11:57:24 <lfm> Average interval last 100 blocks: 8.81 min
651 2011-01-14 11:57:25 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
652 2011-01-14 11:57:40 <lfm> Average interval since last diff change: 8.91 min
653 2011-01-14 11:58:00 <lfm> hardly signoficant
654 2011-01-14 11:58:11 <sipa> there's a growth of about 1.3% per day
655 2011-01-14 11:58:34 <lfm> over what period?
656 2011-01-14 11:59:07 <sipa> the past few weeks it's been 1-2%
657 2011-01-14 11:59:45 <lfm> few weeks? 3? 4? 6?
658 2011-01-14 12:00:19 <sipa> let's say 4
659 2011-01-14 12:00:36 <sipa> i'm going to make some graph about it, but not now :)
660 2011-01-14 12:00:41 <molecular> is the most efficient gpu in terms of "BTC per Watt" also the best performer in terms of raw power? In other words: does it make sense to look at medium-power GPUs?
661 2011-01-14 12:01:09 <lfm> "sense" is kinda subjective
662 2011-01-14 12:02:06 <lfm> depends on several factors. what gpu prices are for you in your country, what power costs are for you in your area and wht you think btc prices will be for the period in question
663 2011-01-14 12:02:53 <molecular> lfm: One could gather all the facts and make a calculator ;)
664 2011-01-14 12:03:12 <lfm> yes, its still subjective thpo of course
665 2011-01-14 12:03:30 <molecular> Can one put additional info to a coin, like "generated with green power"?
666 2011-01-14 12:04:03 mtgox has joined
667 2011-01-14 12:04:26 <lfm> you can try, I doubt it would work. Do you think people would value gold claimed to be green mined more than other gold?
668 2011-01-14 12:05:03 <sipa> molecular: you can put arbitrary data in the coin base yes
669 2011-01-14 12:05:14 <molecular> lfm: actually no. blood diamonds ;)
670 2011-01-14 12:05:18 <sipa> not sure how many people will notice, but yes
671 2011-01-14 12:05:27 <lfm> there is no way to keep the association bevond fist sale if I understand you
672 2011-01-14 12:05:41 <lfm> first sale that is
673 2011-01-14 12:05:46 <molecular> sipa: will that be carried around with splits and joins?
674 2011-01-14 12:06:47 <lfm> you could always try to trace back the liniage of a txn but it will tend to get combined and split thus diluted
675 2011-01-14 12:07:13 <molecular> will that info not be deleted at some point by pruning the merkel tree?
676 2011-01-14 12:08:10 <lfm> the info will last as long as bitcoin even if some nodes drop it at some point, there will always be some "full service" nodes
677 2011-01-14 12:08:45 <lfm> x
678 2011-01-14 12:08:53 <lfm> hung ...
679 2011-01-14 12:09:24 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
680 2011-01-14 12:09:45 lfm has joined
681 2011-01-14 12:10:34 <lfm> is this on?
682 2011-01-14 12:11:39 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
683 2011-01-14 12:12:32 tg has joined
684 2011-01-14 12:15:21 <niekie> Hello :)
685 2011-01-14 12:15:28 <lfm> hi
686 2011-01-14 12:18:41 <sipa> molecular: no, it won't
687 2011-01-14 12:19:15 <molecular> sipa: so the network keeps all info on all transaction ever made?
688 2011-01-14 12:19:15 <sipa> molecular: but technically you can trace the output of each transaction back to the blocks in which the constituent coins were generator
689 2011-01-14 12:21:28 <lfm> the fact that every transaction tends to join amounts from various previous transactions together and then split them up again makes such lineages a bit hazy. you cant actually track a specific coin or anything. it is all just totals
690 2011-01-14 12:21:56 <molecular> allright, but you could calculate a percentage...
691 2011-01-14 12:22:09 <lfm> I supose
692 2011-01-14 12:22:22 <sipa> lfm: yes, but its' totals per transaction, not per account/address/...
693 2011-01-14 12:22:26 <molecular> doesn't seem like I'll sell my "green BTC" at higher price ;)
694 2011-01-14 12:22:31 <sipa> no
695 2011-01-14 12:22:53 x67631 has joined
696 2011-01-14 12:24:08 <molecular> just did some rough research. seems to me for mining, a highend ati card is much more cost-effective than highend nvidia?
697 2011-01-14 12:24:35 <lfm> yes
698 2011-01-14 12:24:38 <sipa> yes
699 2011-01-14 12:25:43 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
700 2011-01-14 12:42:22 x67631 is now known as x6763
701 2011-01-14 12:42:47 x6763 has quit (Changing host)
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703 2011-01-14 12:48:00 <xelister> molecular: x4 more effective per device price and per electrity price
704 2011-01-14 13:05:11 <molecular> so which card would be most efficient that is currently available? or: what are some options?
705 2011-01-14 13:06:42 <tcatm> 5870/5970/6950
706 2011-01-14 13:10:40 <ArtForz> for Mhash/W, 5970, 5870, 5850, 6870, 5770, 6850, 6950, 6970, in that order
707 2011-01-14 13:13:20 <ArtForz> even a 6970 is about 2.5x as efficient as a GTX580, which so far is nvidias most efficient offering
708 2011-01-14 13:14:10 <molecular> thx for the info. you seem to disagree wether 5970 or 5870 is better (not that it matters much to me, but interesting nonetheless) ;)
709 2011-01-14 13:14:38 <ArtForz> 5970 is more power efficient
710 2011-01-14 13:14:48 <molecular> ok
711 2011-01-14 13:14:55 <molecular> but more expensive?
712 2011-01-14 13:15:02 <ArtForz> depends
713 2011-01-14 13:15:07 <ArtForz> currently, yes
714 2011-01-14 13:15:15 <ArtForz> for $500 5970 was a steal
715 2011-01-14 13:15:34 <ArtForz> especially if you factor in the cost for the rest of the system
716 2011-01-14 13:15:36 <sipa> the price for 5970's will probably drop as soon as the 6990 is released?
717 2011-01-14 13:15:45 <ArtForz> I'd guess so
718 2011-01-14 13:16:23 <molecular> I can see a 5970 for â¬352 here in germany
719 2011-01-14 13:16:27 <ArtForz> right now 5970 is still the fastest graphics card available, EOLed and stock is probably getting low
720 2011-01-14 13:16:43 <sipa> 352? new?
721 2011-01-14 13:16:52 <molecular> oh no, sorry. that's still rising on ebay ;(
722 2011-01-14 13:17:07 <ArtForz> cheapest new is ~415EUR incl. tax
723 2011-01-14 13:17:20 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
724 2011-01-14 13:17:49 <ArtForz> still not THAT bad
725 2011-01-14 13:18:31 <sipa> i tried buying one a few times on ebay, but was overbidden the last few seconds :)
726 2011-01-14 13:18:37 <ArtForz> it all kidna depends on pricing of 6990 at release
727 2011-01-14 13:18:53 <ArtForz> I suspect 6990 will be significantly faster than 5970 for 3D
728 2011-01-14 13:18:54 <molecular> can I use a cheap board? (only 1 gpu planned)
729 2011-01-14 13:18:58 <ArtForz> yep
730 2011-01-14 13:19:17 <ArtForz> I run a 5970 + a 5770 on a 50EUR asrock board
731 2011-01-14 13:19:32 <ArtForz> with a sempron and 2*512MB ram
732 2011-01-14 13:19:32 <molecular> nice
733 2011-01-14 13:19:35 <sipa> the second one in 4x slot?
734 2011-01-14 13:19:38 <sipa> *a
735 2011-01-14 13:19:47 <ArtForz> yep
736 2011-01-14 13:19:54 <ArtForz> second slot is x16 mechanical, x4 electrical
737 2011-01-14 13:20:00 <ArtForz> doesnt really matter for mining
738 2011-01-14 13:20:06 <sipa> interesting :)
739 2011-01-14 13:20:14 <molecular> also the amount of ram doesn't matter, does it?
740 2011-01-14 13:20:19 <ArtForz> nope
741 2011-01-14 13:20:21 <ArtForz> even for a 5970 the difference is <1%
742 2011-01-14 13:21:03 <ArtForz> also ran a 5970 in a gen1 x4 slot, still < 1% slower vs. PCIe 2.0 x16
743 2011-01-14 13:21:34 <sipa> and a motherboard with let's say x16 + x16 + x4, would not be a problem to put in 3 ?
744 2011-01-14 13:21:43 <ArtForz> if you can cool em, no
745 2011-01-14 13:21:53 <ArtForz> you want at least 1 slot of airspace between cards
746 2011-01-14 13:21:57 <ArtForz> especially with 5970s
747 2011-01-14 13:22:45 <ArtForz> otherwise they block each others intake fan
748 2011-01-14 13:23:07 <ArtForz> not a problem with 5970+5770 though, 5770 is short enough to not block the fan on a 5970
749 2011-01-14 13:23:32 <sipa> but a x4 slot which is x4 mechanically, will it fit a 5970?
750 2011-01-14 13:23:45 <ArtForz> not without hacking
751 2011-01-14 13:23:53 <sipa> i'll take that as a no :)
752 2011-01-14 13:24:17 <ArtForz> well, there are ~ 1" high x4-to-x16 adapter boards
753 2011-01-14 13:24:48 <ArtForz> or you use a flexible riser and cut out the end of the slot on the riser, ala mrb
754 2011-01-14 13:25:17 <ArtForz> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
755 2011-01-14 13:28:11 <ArtForz> I ran 2 5970s on one of these I found in my "old HW" box: http://reviews.cnet.com/motherboards/asus-a8n-e-nforce4/1707-3049_7-31329768.html
756 2011-01-14 13:38:12 davout has joined
757 2011-01-14 13:40:59 <UukGoblin> slush, Jonathan_L is complaining on #bitcoin-mining that http://mining.bitcoin.cz/home/ or http://mining.bitcoin.cz/accounts/profile/ gives him 500s after registering a worker
758 2011-01-14 13:45:18 <molecular> What's the approx. hashrate of a 5970?
759 2011-01-14 13:45:29 <UukGoblin> 540Mhash/sec stock
760 2011-01-14 13:45:35 <UukGoblin> sorry that was meant to say 530
761 2011-01-14 13:45:39 <Diablo-D3> over 9000
762 2011-01-14 13:45:40 <Diablo-D3> clearly
763 2011-01-14 13:45:42 <sipa> 42
764 2011-01-14 13:45:48 <sipa> (unspecified unit)
765 2011-01-14 13:45:52 <molecular> sipa: thx, that was the correct answer
766 2011-01-14 13:45:54 <UukGoblin> 23?
767 2011-01-14 13:46:08 <sipa> overclocked you can reach 600MH/s easily, i heard
768 2011-01-14 13:46:12 <Diablo-D3> [07:59:28] <manik> Diablo-D3: so is that your final MMH3 impl?
769 2011-01-14 13:46:15 <Diablo-D3> errr
770 2011-01-14 13:46:20 <Diablo-D3> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison
771 2011-01-14 13:46:26 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: ^
772 2011-01-14 13:46:38 <ArtForz> depending on miner, soemwhere between 530 and 555 stock
773 2011-01-14 13:46:47 <sipa> is it possible to use a 5970 for mining, and built-in mobo video for your screen?
774 2011-01-14 13:46:48 <molecular> and the approx power consumption (5970) when hashing?
775 2011-01-14 13:47:03 <ArtForz> about 300W
776 2011-01-14 13:47:03 <Diablo-D3> molecular: see the url
777 2011-01-14 13:47:08 <Diablo-D3> it has it all there
778 2011-01-14 13:47:27 <molecular> ah, thanks a lot for the url. I'll stop bugging you guys now
779 2011-01-14 13:47:38 <molecular> and the url for the future BTC value in USD?
780 2011-01-14 13:47:50 <sipa> future BTC value?
781 2011-01-14 13:47:57 <molecular> a joke
782 2011-01-14 13:48:01 <Diablo-D3> you mean current ;)
783 2011-01-14 13:48:07 <molecular> was asking to predict the future ;)
784 2011-01-14 13:48:36 <molecular> ;;bc,mtgox
785 2011-01-14 13:48:37 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.4,"low":0.3176,"vol":13822,"buy":0.36,"sell":0.371,"last":0.371}}
786 2011-01-14 13:48:39 <molecular> current is easy
787 2011-01-14 13:49:00 <molecular> thanks again for all the info.. happy mining
788 2011-01-14 13:49:03 <Diablo-D3> huh, .37 already, wow
789 2011-01-14 13:49:32 <sipa> it's been 0.4 yesterday for a while
790 2011-01-14 13:49:43 <Diablo-D3> hrm
791 2011-01-14 13:49:55 <Diablo-D3> 72
792 2011-01-14 13:49:58 <Diablo-D3> jesus
793 2011-01-14 13:50:15 <Diablo-D3> 180 * 0.4 = 72
794 2011-01-14 13:50:30 <sipa> about 18h ago, some 1000 BTC were traded at $0.4 on mtgox
795 2011-01-14 13:56:40 devon_hillard_ has joined
796 2011-01-14 14:00:16 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
797 2011-01-14 14:00:35 Tritonio has joined
798 2011-01-14 14:00:40 <slush> UukGoblin: lol, he probably used unicode name for worker
799 2011-01-14 14:01:00 <slush> I should allow only ascii characters
800 2011-01-14 14:17:53 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
801 2011-01-14 14:18:26 ArtForz has joined
802 2011-01-14 14:21:52 jago25_98 has joined
803 2011-01-14 14:25:15 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 320000
804 2011-01-14 14:25:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 2 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes, and 55 seconds
805 2011-01-14 14:25:32 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
806 2011-01-14 14:25:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102633 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 182 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 2 hours, 11 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 18261.64609438
807 2011-01-14 14:27:56 <ArtForz> yep, still kinda slow growth
808 2011-01-14 14:28:29 <lfm> ya people were expecting 20k difficulty a month ago
809 2011-01-14 14:29:03 <lfm> it seems
810 2011-01-14 14:29:04 <ArtForz> simple exponential extrapolation to the full 2016 blocks, diff ~18470 = about +13.25% or so
811 2011-01-14 14:30:24 <ArtForz> 14484 to 16307 was +12.59%, 12252 to 14484 +18.22%
812 2011-01-14 14:30:40 <lfm> long way from the 50% per 2 weeks that we sorta got used to
813 2011-01-14 14:30:48 <ArtForz> yep
814 2011-01-14 14:32:05 akem has joined
815 2011-01-14 14:32:12 <xelister> ;;tbc,calc 1000
816 2011-01-14 14:32:12 <gribble> Error: "tbc,calc" is not a valid command.
817 2011-01-14 14:32:35 <xelister> how to calculate expected gen rate at given difficulty e.g. on testnet
818 2011-01-14 14:32:47 <ArtForz> difficulty * 2**32 / 600
819 2011-01-14 14:32:55 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 1000 11.5
820 2011-01-14 14:32:56 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
821 2011-01-14 14:33:04 <ArtForz> thats calcd
822 2011-01-14 14:33:06 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 1000 11000
823 2011-01-14 14:33:07 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
824 2011-01-14 14:33:16 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 1000,11000
825 2011-01-14 14:33:17 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
826 2011-01-14 14:33:25 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 1000 11000
827 2011-01-14 14:33:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11000, is 1 year, 25 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes, and 40 seconds
828 2011-01-14 14:33:54 <xelister> ;;bc,calcd 1000 23
829 2011-01-14 14:33:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 23, is 1 day, 3 hours, 26 minutes, and 24 seconds
830 2011-01-14 14:33:58 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 1000 11.5
831 2011-01-14 14:33:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11.5, is 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 12 seconds
832 2011-01-14 14:34:05 Tritonio_GR has joined
833 2011-01-14 14:34:21 <lfm> is that good enuf?
834 2011-01-14 14:34:41 <xelister> yeap
835 2011-01-14 14:34:52 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 625000 11.5
836 2011-01-14 14:34:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 625000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11.5, is 1 minute and 19 seconds
837 2011-01-14 14:35:15 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 180000 11.5
838 2011-01-14 14:35:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 180000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11.5, is 4 minutes and 34 seconds
839 2011-01-14 14:35:28 <ArtForz> damn, even a 5770 is way too fast
840 2011-01-14 14:35:50 <xelister> gpu would rape testnet
841 2011-01-14 14:35:55 <xelister> even nvidia ;)
842 2011-01-14 14:36:12 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 40000 11.5
843 2011-01-14 14:36:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11.5, is 20 minutes and 34 seconds
844 2011-01-14 14:36:20 <ArtForz> a 5550 would be slow enough
845 2011-01-14 14:36:36 <xelister> ;;bc,calcd 2000000 23
846 2011-01-14 14:36:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 23, is 49 seconds
847 2011-01-14 14:36:45 Tritonio_GR has quit (Client Quit)
848 2011-01-14 14:36:55 <xelister> would be fun to set your entire cluster to work on testnet
849 2011-01-14 14:37:07 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 16500000 11.5
850 2011-01-14 14:37:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16500000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11.5, is 2 seconds
851 2011-01-14 14:37:26 <lfm> thatd be crazy
852 2011-01-14 14:37:58 <lfm> might reveal some design limits tho I spoze
853 2011-01-14 14:38:14 <xelister> lets do it
854 2011-01-14 14:38:18 <xelister> ArtForz: do it \o/
855 2011-01-14 14:38:36 jago25_98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
856 2011-01-14 14:38:40 <lfm> drive their difficulty way up then drop out and leave em hanging
857 2011-01-14 14:38:53 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
858 2011-01-14 14:39:11 <xelister> then testnet could wait like a year for diff lowering
859 2011-01-14 14:39:32 <xelister> imo the rule should be to also adjust diff if say 24 h passes with no block
860 2011-01-14 14:39:54 x6763 has joined
861 2011-01-14 14:39:56 <lfm> xelister the 4x diff limit might save them
862 2011-01-14 14:40:14 <xelister> lfm: diff can rise max x4 each 2000 blocks?
863 2011-01-14 14:40:29 <lfm> I think so ya,
864 2011-01-14 14:40:48 <xelister> ArtForz: quick hogging the decission, put cluster on testnet's ass ;)
865 2011-01-14 14:41:15 <xelister> wonder if that would also disable many generators since transfer rate limis
866 2011-01-14 14:41:15 <ArtForz> takes a bit, have to cactch up on block chain first
867 2011-01-14 14:45:23 <davout> ArtForz: didn't follow everything, are you really going to put your rigs on testnet for a couple thousand testnet blocks?
868 2011-01-14 14:45:35 jago25_98 has joined
869 2011-01-14 14:45:46 jago25_98 has quit (Client Quit)
870 2011-01-14 14:46:28 <ArtForz> nah, only 8 5970s
871 2011-01-14 14:48:20 jago25_98 has joined
872 2011-01-14 14:50:09 jago25_98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
873 2011-01-14 14:51:58 <slush> ;;bc,calc 0.005*0.35
874 2011-01-14 14:51:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 0.005*0.35 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1269118 years, 20 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, 35 minutes, and 0 seconds
875 2011-01-14 14:52:02 jago25_98 has joined
876 2011-01-14 14:52:06 <slush> shit
877 2011-01-14 14:52:32 <xelister> slush: wat?
878 2011-01-14 14:52:51 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 0.005
879 2011-01-14 14:52:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 0.005 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 444191 years, 22 weeks, 4 days, 23 hours, 3 minutes, and 20 seconds
880 2011-01-14 14:53:01 <slush> nothng, I always forget correct command for normal calculator
881 2011-01-14 14:53:34 <lfm> ;;google,calg 0.005*0.35
882 2011-01-14 14:53:34 <gribble> Error: "google,calg" is not a valid command.
883 2011-01-14 14:53:40 <lfm> ;;google,calc 0.005*0.35
884 2011-01-14 14:53:41 <gribble> Error: "google,calc" is not a valid command.
885 2011-01-14 14:53:52 <lfm> ;;calc,google 0.005*0.35
886 2011-01-14 14:53:53 <gribble> Error: "calc,google" is not a valid command.
887 2011-01-14 14:54:04 <lfm> bah
888 2011-01-14 14:54:04 reQunix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
889 2011-01-14 14:54:06 <slush> ;;bc,calc 5400
890 2011-01-14 14:54:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5400 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 21 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 53 minutes, and 9 seconds
891 2011-01-14 14:54:54 <xelister> ;;bc,calcd 4800000 23
892 2011-01-14 14:54:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4800000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 23, is 20 seconds
893 2011-01-14 14:54:58 jago25_98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
894 2011-01-14 14:55:50 jago25_98 has joined
895 2011-01-14 14:57:13 <ArtForz> hmmm, looks like wallet flushing slows down generation quite a bit once you go < 10s/block or so
896 2011-01-14 14:57:23 <xelister> =)
897 2011-01-14 14:57:47 Zarutian has joined
898 2011-01-14 14:57:55 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
899 2011-01-14 14:58:52 tg has joined
900 2011-01-14 14:59:28 <ArtForz> 24 HD5970s on testnet *g*
901 2011-01-14 14:59:48 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
902 2011-01-14 15:01:15 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 300000 23.38
903 2011-01-14 15:01:16 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
904 2011-01-14 15:01:23 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 300000 23.38
905 2011-01-14 15:01:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 23.38, is 5 minutes and 34 seconds
906 2011-01-14 15:02:30 <davout> ArtForz: pervert
907 2011-01-14 15:02:37 <davout> :D
908 2011-01-14 15:02:55 <slush> heh, mining on mainnet become hard even for ArtForz...
909 2011-01-14 15:03:25 <slush> ..so his plan is to get rich on testnet now ;)
910 2011-01-14 15:04:11 <ArtForz> lets try something
911 2011-01-14 15:06:37 altamic has joined
912 2011-01-14 15:06:51 <slush> ;;bc,calcd 12360 4
913 2011-01-14 15:06:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12360 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 4, is 23 minutes and 9 seconds
914 2011-01-14 15:06:58 <davout> i predict that eventually testnet coins will have some value
915 2011-01-14 15:07:03 <lfm> yup looks like a new block about every 2 sec just like its calced to be
916 2011-01-14 15:07:04 <slush> ;;bc,calcd 12360000 4
917 2011-01-14 15:07:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12360000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 4, is 1 second
918 2011-01-14 15:08:59 <x6763> davout: i think nanotube bought 30000 testnet coins for 1 btc
919 2011-01-14 15:10:04 <slush> I sent him 12000 btc for free yesterday :x
920 2011-01-14 15:11:56 <lfm> yay! I got one (trestnet) while art was getting 1 every 2 sec
921 2011-01-14 15:19:21 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
922 2011-01-14 15:19:38 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
923 2011-01-14 15:20:02 Akiraaaa has joined
924 2011-01-14 15:23:03 devon_hillard_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
925 2011-01-14 15:23:52 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
926 2011-01-14 15:25:02 * xelister senses ArtForz's prezents in the testnet
927 2011-01-14 15:25:16 <lfm> slowin down, art shut down again?
928 2011-01-14 15:25:26 <ArtForz> nope
929 2011-01-14 15:25:29 <ArtForz> difficulty changed
930 2011-01-14 15:25:43 <lfm> ah!
931 2011-01-14 15:25:56 <lfm> "difficulty" : 93.42637498,
932 2011-01-14 15:26:01 <lfm> hehe
933 2011-01-14 15:26:44 <ArtForz> that should make my miner a bit more efficient
934 2011-01-14 15:29:17 <lfm> ya it was a limit 4x
935 2011-01-14 15:30:30 <ArtForz> yup
936 2011-01-14 15:30:33 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 300000 93.42637498
937 2011-01-14 15:30:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 93.42637498, is 22 minutes and 17 seconds
938 2011-01-14 15:31:46 <ArtForz> "real" difficulty is half that
939 2011-01-14 15:31:55 <ArtForz> testnet 1.0 diff = main 0.5 diff
940 2011-01-14 15:35:35 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 14000000 46.7
941 2011-01-14 15:35:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 46.7, is 14 seconds
942 2011-01-14 15:35:54 <sipa> ArtForz: Antec PSU TruePower Quattro 850W: any good/enough for 2 5970's?
943 2011-01-14 15:36:05 <ArtForz> should be ok
944 2011-01-14 15:36:59 <Diablo-D3> sipa: nope
945 2011-01-14 15:37:00 <Diablo-D3> because
946 2011-01-14 15:37:01 <Diablo-D3> its antec
947 2011-01-14 15:37:14 <lfm> so if you go for another 7 hours or so you could get another 4x limit on testnet
948 2011-01-14 15:39:22 <lfm> quattro? is that like 4 rails or something then?
949 2011-01-14 15:40:45 <sipa> Diablo-D3: what's bad about it?
950 2011-01-14 15:40:59 <tcatm> ArtForz: What are you trying on testnet?
951 2011-01-14 15:41:16 <Diablo-D3> sipa: its testnet.
952 2011-01-14 15:41:22 <ArtForz> trying to reduce overhead in my iner
953 2011-01-14 15:41:23 <Diablo-D3> er
954 2011-01-14 15:41:29 <Diablo-D3> sipa: its antec.
955 2011-01-14 15:41:55 <lfm> tcat was a test to see if testnet could handle 1 block every 2 sec. seemed to work
956 2011-01-14 15:42:03 <sipa> so, it will fail/explode/waste power/... ?
957 2011-01-14 15:42:21 <sipa> (honest question)
958 2011-01-14 15:42:24 <lfm> all of the above?
959 2011-01-14 15:42:29 <ArtForz> except I only got ~3 sec/block thanks to wallet flushing blocking stuff for AGES
960 2011-01-14 15:43:01 <lfm> art you need ssds?
961 2011-01-14 15:43:48 jago25_98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
962 2011-01-14 15:45:03 jago25_98 has joined
963 2011-01-14 15:45:59 qube23 has joined
964 2011-01-14 15:53:02 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
965 2011-01-14 15:53:31 <lfm> looks like I lost a couple races on the old difficulty
966 2011-01-14 15:53:44 <lfm> ERROR: BitcoinMiner : generated block is stale
967 2011-01-14 15:54:42 <xelister> my diablo-based-miner craps out too
968 2011-01-14 15:54:50 <xelister> cant send result to bitcoind json
969 2011-01-14 15:55:37 <ArtForz> oh, thats intended
970 2011-01-14 15:55:57 <ArtForz> I'm running in cartel mode atm
971 2011-01-14 15:57:05 <ArtForz> = start a private chain fork if soemone else finds a block, send blocks up to N+1 once you get ahead
972 2011-01-14 15:58:17 <ArtForz> = right now nobody else should be able to generate a block on testnet without getting overtaken pretty much instantly
973 2011-01-14 15:58:50 <xelister> woot
974 2011-01-14 16:00:22 <ArtForz> it also means current testnet speed is really just my cluster alone, I dont fudge with block timestamps
975 2011-01-14 16:05:26 Kiba has joined
976 2011-01-14 16:05:52 <Diablo-D3> or
977 2011-01-14 16:05:54 <Diablo-D3> just use a pool.
978 2011-01-14 16:06:37 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
979 2011-01-14 16:07:43 slush has joined
980 2011-01-14 16:14:48 <nanotube> haha ArtForz you have "cartel mode" nice :)
981 2011-01-14 16:16:33 <ArtForz> well, it still needs some work so actual cartels of multiple miners can be set up
982 2011-01-14 16:16:56 <slush> ArtForz: Do you provide some cartel mode API ? :)
983 2011-01-14 16:17:04 <ArtForz> = they share blocks of "their" chain amongst each other
984 2011-01-14 16:17:53 <ArtForz> = a bunch of miners collaborating and having >50% total hashrate combined can hog all generation
985 2011-01-14 16:19:02 <luke-jr> and block transactions
986 2011-01-14 16:19:03 <luke-jr> :o
987 2011-01-14 16:19:14 <ArtForz> yep
988 2011-01-14 16:22:05 <ArtForz> I should add that
989 2011-01-14 16:22:13 <ArtForz> "attach a X% fee or your TX wont ever make it into a block"
990 2011-01-14 16:27:08 <sipa> can a Radeon 4290 do mining?
991 2011-01-14 16:27:33 <ArtForz> should be able to
992 2011-01-14 16:27:55 <sipa> probably not fast, but this mobo has that built-in
993 2011-01-14 16:28:04 <ArtForz> wait, no
994 2011-01-14 16:28:26 <ArtForz> 4290 IGP is RV620 = HD3430
995 2011-01-14 16:29:03 <ArtForz> well, actually clocked between 3450 and 3470
996 2011-01-14 16:29:09 <sipa> doesn't matter
997 2011-01-14 16:29:22 <Diablo-D3> 3xxx/4xxx IGP chips cant run opencl
998 2011-01-14 16:29:25 <Diablo-D3> they're R600s
999 2011-01-14 16:29:26 <ArtForz> last time I checked, HD3xxx didnt have OpenCL support
1000 2011-01-14 16:29:26 <sipa> if it can't be used for mining, it can be used for video while mining :)
1001 2011-01-14 16:29:46 <ArtForz> yep
1002 2011-01-14 16:29:57 <ArtForz> rebadging fucking sucks
1003 2011-01-14 16:30:05 <sipa> rebadging?
1004 2011-01-14 16:30:11 <Diablo-D3> its not rebadging at all
1005 2011-01-14 16:30:14 <Diablo-D3> its clearly an IGP
1006 2011-01-14 16:30:18 <ArtForz> so?
1007 2011-01-14 16:30:21 <Diablo-D3> at no point have they advertised otherwise
1008 2011-01-14 16:30:28 jago25_98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1009 2011-01-14 16:30:42 <ArtForz> call it a 3470 IGP then
1010 2011-01-14 16:31:03 <Diablo-D3> why, when they cal call it a 780G instead
1011 2011-01-14 16:31:28 <Diablo-D3> *can call
1012 2011-01-14 16:32:14 <ArtForz> why not just just call it a 9001 OMG WTF XXX make-me-a-sandwich edition then?
1013 2011-01-14 16:32:39 <sipa> why not just label graphics cards with the gpu's in them? :)
1014 2011-01-14 16:33:10 <nanotube> heh, testnet diff is now 46. good going there ArtForz :)
1015 2011-01-14 16:33:41 jago25_98 has joined
1016 2011-01-14 16:33:42 <luke-jr> ArtForz: dare you to raise it with all your GPUs
1017 2011-01-14 16:33:42 <ArtForz> kinda like half of the Mobile HD6xxxM are really 5xxx cores
1018 2011-01-14 16:34:05 <luke-jr> for like a week
1019 2011-01-14 16:34:07 <luke-jr> <.<
1020 2011-01-14 16:34:13 <ArtForz> next testnet diff should be fun
1021 2011-01-14 16:34:22 * luke-jr just wants pool to get more blocks ofc
1022 2011-01-14 16:35:37 <ArtForz> 1744 blocks to go, then tesnet should be at 186.9 main equiv diff
1023 2011-01-14 16:36:17 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 180000 186.9
1024 2011-01-14 16:36:17 <nanotube> ArtForz: well, who's gonna be raising it to 4x? or do you plan to do that?
1025 2011-01-14 16:36:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 180000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 186.9, is 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 19 seconds
1026 2011-01-14 16:36:35 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 600000 186.9
1027 2011-01-14 16:36:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 186.9, is 22 minutes and 17 seconds
1028 2011-01-14 16:37:01 <ArtForz> fun! you'd need 2 5970s just to get 600s/block
1029 2011-01-14 16:37:10 [Noodles] has joined
1030 2011-01-14 16:37:28 <slush> not fun at all. How the fuck I should test pool now? :/
1031 2011-01-14 16:38:16 <ArtForz> should only take about 8h
1032 2011-01-14 16:40:44 <EvanR-work> ArtForz likes stepping and sandcastles ;)
1033 2011-01-14 16:40:49 <EvanR-work> stepping on
1034 2011-01-14 16:41:06 <EvanR-work> sandcastles that regenerate automatically
1035 2011-01-14 16:41:37 <nanotube> hehe
1036 2011-01-14 16:41:45 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1037 2011-01-14 16:43:08 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1038 2011-01-14 16:43:59 <nevezen> each block that's generated at the moment contains 50btc waiting to be mined out right?
1039 2011-01-14 16:44:45 <nanotube> well, you make it contain the 50 btc, by including a tx to yourself of 50 btc from nowhere. but essentially, yes. :)
1040 2011-01-14 16:45:03 <EvanR-work> hmm, can you include a 100 instead?
1041 2011-01-14 16:45:43 <nanotube> yes you can.
1042 2011-01-14 16:45:47 <nanotube> nobody else will accept it though
1043 2011-01-14 16:45:53 <nanotube> but you can have fun :)
1044 2011-01-14 16:46:09 <nanotube> why limit yourself to 100, go for a full million. :)
1045 2011-01-14 16:46:21 <EvanR-work> what about 49
1046 2011-01-14 16:46:31 <nevezen> each block that's generated at the moment contains 50btc waiting to be mined out right?
1047 2011-01-14 16:46:57 <nevezen> whoops
1048 2011-01-14 16:47:05 <nanotube> EvanR-work: hmm good question. not sure.
1049 2011-01-14 16:47:09 <nanotube> ArtForz: --^ ?
1050 2011-01-14 16:50:50 <ArtForz> 49 is ok
1051 2011-01-14 16:50:55 <ArtForz> you can also give yourself 0
1052 2011-01-14 16:51:02 <EvanR-work> weird
1053 2011-01-14 16:51:11 <ArtForz> y?
1054 2011-01-14 16:51:35 * Kiba will write articles for bitcoin!
1055 2011-01-14 16:51:51 <EvanR-work> 'there will eventually be 21000000' is not strictly true
1056 2011-01-14 16:52:06 <ArtForz> it enevr was
1057 2011-01-14 16:52:12 <EvanR-work> i know that now
1058 2011-01-14 16:52:17 <ArtForz> it's actually a bit < 21M
1059 2011-01-14 16:52:23 <ArtForz> even if all generation is 100% used
1060 2011-01-14 16:52:24 <EvanR-work> er no
1061 2011-01-14 16:52:34 <EvanR-work> division terminates after some time
1062 2011-01-14 16:52:38 <ArtForz> yes
1063 2011-01-14 16:53:03 <EvanR-work> oh right the total was not exactly 21M?
1064 2011-01-14 16:53:11 <EvanR-work> anyway, its even less now!
1065 2011-01-14 16:53:52 <ArtForz> max is 20999999.9769
1066 2011-01-14 16:53:52 <nevezen> it can only hold a maximum of 21M coins?
1067 2011-01-14 16:54:13 <EvanR-work> theres coins at the bottom of the sea, in wallets, and 'would prefer not to have been created'
1068 2011-01-14 16:55:00 <slush> will this work? http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10881
1069 2011-01-14 16:55:37 <dooglus> can someone explain what's going on with the hundreds of 'ORPHAN BLOCK's I see in debug.log while building the block chain for the first time? http://pastebin.com/6ij9eQNe
1070 2011-01-14 16:55:49 Tritonio has joined
1071 2011-01-14 16:55:49 <cosurgi> heheh. No blocks for 5 days, and now 3 blocks in one day. At 242927 khash/sec
1072 2011-01-14 16:56:04 <ArtForz> I hate those risers
1073 2011-01-14 16:56:12 <ArtForz> they dont work reliably at 2.0 speeds
1074 2011-01-14 16:56:27 <cosurgi> ArtForz: question - if I buy two ATI 5850, will I connect them with crossfire or not?
1075 2011-01-14 16:56:29 <ArtForz> hell, they dont work reliably at 1.0 speeds either if you dont wrap em in a few layers of alu foil
1076 2011-01-14 16:56:50 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1077 2011-01-14 16:56:52 <slush> ArtForz: What risers do you use?
1078 2011-01-14 16:56:56 freetx has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1079 2011-01-14 16:56:58 <nanotube> hehe so... if someone wants to increase the value of his coins... he can try mining some 0-reward blocks. that way, the max possible bitcoins will be less. interesting.
1080 2011-01-14 16:56:59 <nevezen> too much EM interference?
1081 2011-01-14 16:57:09 <ArtForz> yep
1082 2011-01-14 16:57:18 <ArtForz> the stupid connectors degrade signal like hell
1083 2011-01-14 16:57:23 <ArtForz> sec, lemme find a link
1084 2011-01-14 16:57:49 <EvanR-work> nanotube: s/increase the value/not decrease the value/ ? ;)
1085 2011-01-14 16:58:04 <ArtForz> I'm using clones of adex PE-FLEX16
1086 2011-01-14 16:58:10 <slush> ;;bc,poolstats
1087 2011-01-14 16:58:11 <gribble> {"hashes_ps": 17095258422, "shares": 14751, "active_workers": 319, "round_duration": "1:01:46", "round_started": "2011-01-14 15:52:22", "getwork_ps": 106}
1088 2011-01-14 16:58:12 <EvanR-work> increase the value by minting negative blocks
1089 2011-01-14 16:58:28 <nevezen> how does it affect you?
1090 2011-01-14 16:59:01 <ArtForz> sintech PA-CLKF731
1091 2011-01-14 16:59:12 <cosurgi> 06:08 < mrb_> correct, crossfire can (and should be) disabled to scale on multiple GPUs
1092 2011-01-14 16:59:19 <cosurgi> ok. No crossfire between GPUs.
1093 2011-01-14 16:59:22 <slush> ArtForz: thanks
1094 2011-01-14 16:59:39 <ArtForz> finding them in EU/US is kinda hard
1095 2011-01-14 16:59:57 <slush> It's flexible?
1096 2011-01-14 17:00:02 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: how your miner utulizes multiple GPUs? Is it for example like, first GPU is mining even nonces, and second GPU is mining odd nonces?
1097 2011-01-14 17:00:02 <ArtForz> yep
1098 2011-01-14 17:00:26 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: no, its like running seperate miners.
1099 2011-01-14 17:00:28 <ArtForz> well, not VERY flexible
1100 2011-01-14 17:00:37 <ArtForz> the shielding makes the cable pretty damn stiff
1101 2011-01-14 17:00:40 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: they both get a different merkleroot to start with?
1102 2011-01-14 17:00:54 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: yes, in the sense that they get different getworks altogether
1103 2011-01-14 17:00:59 <cosurgi> ok.
1104 2011-01-14 17:01:54 <cosurgi> so if both find a solution almost simulatenously then one of them becomes obsolete (this block has been found, already) ?
1105 2011-01-14 17:02:21 <cosurgi> that's quite theoretical situation, I'm just curious.
1106 2011-01-14 17:03:19 <ArtForz> easiest way to get em is direct order from china
1107 2011-01-14 17:03:20 <ArtForz> http://www.dhgate.com/pci-e-express-x16-riser-card-1-slot-with/p-ff8080812c305fe5012c367decb86967.html
1108 2011-01-14 17:04:48 <ArtForz> so far I had one out of 12 with problems at 2.0 speeds
1109 2011-01-14 17:04:52 <nevezen> can you get an x1 to x16 riser?
1110 2011-01-14 17:04:56 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: it internally causes all getworks to flush when one wins
1111 2011-01-14 17:04:58 <ArtForz> yes
1112 2011-01-14 17:05:24 <cosurgi> omg,omg,omg!!! " This is to confirm your Pandora has been shipped. "
1113 2011-01-14 17:05:33 <slush> ArtForz: thanks for links!
1114 2011-01-14 17:05:40 * cosurgi ordered this portable console like two years ago.
1115 2011-01-14 17:05:49 <dooglus> is it normal to be seeing hundreds of orphan blocks when first running the bitcoin client?
1116 2011-01-14 17:05:52 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: ok, clar, thanks :)
1117 2011-01-14 17:05:57 <cosurgi> *clear
1118 2011-01-14 17:06:11 <slush> ArtForz: > can you get an x1 to x16 riser? ---- this means GPU does not need x16 bus?
1119 2011-01-14 17:06:24 <ArtForz> nope
1120 2011-01-14 17:06:34 <ArtForz> see mrbs blog
1121 2011-01-14 17:06:52 <EvanR-work> dooglus: yes, i think
1122 2011-01-14 17:06:57 <cosurgi> umm.. can you explain what is riser? :)
1123 2011-01-14 17:07:03 <nevezen> I guess I'd need a new psu in order to do this
1124 2011-01-14 17:07:16 <nevezen> I only have one pcie power connector
1125 2011-01-14 17:07:24 <cosurgi> I see just a very short ,,IDE'' cable on google images. What it does?
1126 2011-01-14 17:07:25 <gribble> Error: "IDE" is not a valid command.
1127 2011-01-14 17:07:45 <ArtForz> check out adex PEXP16-SX-16/1
1128 2011-01-14 17:08:04 <nevezen> link again?
1129 2011-01-14 17:08:09 <cosurgi> I see.
1130 2011-01-14 17:08:12 <ArtForz> http://www.adexelec.com/pciexp.htm
1131 2011-01-14 17:08:26 <cosurgi> It rises up the PCIex16 slot, so the GPU will fir in the case. Thanks
1132 2011-01-14 17:08:33 <ArtForz> adex is kinda expensive, looking for chinese clones is a good way to save quite a bit of money
1133 2011-01-14 17:09:21 <cosurgi> interesting
1134 2011-01-14 17:09:43 <slush> hm, I should read more about pcie itself. thats completely new info for me :(
1135 2011-01-14 17:09:56 <nevezen> out of curiousity, what are some other uses for the x1 slot?
1136 2011-01-14 17:10:08 darrob has joined
1137 2011-01-14 17:11:41 Seta00 has joined
1138 2011-01-14 17:11:44 <nevezen> I know there are NICs made for the x1
1139 2011-01-14 17:12:01 <midnightmagic> analog modemd.
1140 2011-01-14 17:12:22 <midnightmagic> i think there are a couple of sound cards.
1141 2011-01-14 17:12:37 <ArtForz> sata controller, soundcard, usb3 controller
1142 2011-01-14 17:12:47 <ArtForz> and quite a bit more really
1143 2011-01-14 17:14:08 <nevezen> are there any video cards specifically made for the x1?
1144 2011-01-14 17:14:23 <ArtForz> a few matroxes I think
1145 2011-01-14 17:14:32 <slush> so x<number> is only about bandwidth? And because mining doesn't use large transfers, x1 is enough, right?
1146 2011-01-14 17:14:49 <ArtForz> yep
1147 2011-01-14 17:14:59 <slush> excellent. sorry for lame questions
1148 2011-01-14 17:15:16 <slush> 5970 is not only my first GPU, it is also my first pcie card ever :))
1149 2011-01-14 17:15:36 <ArtForz> those matrox x1 cards are kinda useful for building a wall of screens
1150 2011-01-14 17:16:03 <ArtForz> iirc each one has 4 dual link DVI outputs and you can pack half a dozen in a box
1151 2011-01-14 17:19:37 <ArtForz> = if you can live with bezels, you can build a 24-panel 24:9 screen w/ ~90" diagonal and 15360 x 6400 res, 98MP
1152 2011-01-14 17:20:12 <ArtForz> no clue what you'd *use* that for, but you can build it
1153 2011-01-14 17:20:35 <tcatm> bitcoincharts without scrolling once everyone forks bitcoin-central ;)
1154 2011-01-14 17:21:59 <ArtForz> no, wait, about 180" diagonal
1155 2011-01-14 17:22:00 <davout> tcatm: lol
1156 2011-01-14 17:22:22 <davout> i should add some clever backdoors before i get forks
1157 2011-01-14 17:22:27 <ArtForz> it certainly would look fucking impressive
1158 2011-01-14 17:25:25 * davout hates go-lives
1159 2011-01-14 17:25:57 <nevezen> google earth in your living room perhaps?
1160 2011-01-14 17:26:50 <ArtForz> wowing vistors in your noc?
1161 2011-01-14 17:28:44 <nevezen> you'd still have to deal with screen bezels though
1162 2011-01-14 17:29:17 <nevezen> that much gap isn't ideal at home
1163 2011-01-14 17:29:37 <ArtForz> the bezels on panels designed for screenwalls are pretty damn thin
1164 2011-01-14 17:29:59 <ArtForz> last time I checked <3mm per panel
1165 2011-01-14 17:34:15 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1166 2011-01-14 17:37:19 <nevezen> I don't have eyes like a fly :)
1167 2011-01-14 17:37:34 <slush> http://o1tv.weebly.com/ live discussion about bitcoin
1168 2011-01-14 17:38:47 <ArtForz> urr what? is IRC prerecorded or something?
1169 2011-01-14 17:39:44 freetx has joined
1170 2011-01-14 17:42:00 <sipa> wow
1171 2011-01-14 17:43:11 <sipa> 20k BTC traded at mtgox for >=$0.4
1172 2011-01-14 17:43:46 <slush> but it skipped my sell @0.4
1173 2011-01-14 17:43:56 luke-jr has joined
1174 2011-01-14 17:44:00 <Kiba> lol
1175 2011-01-14 17:44:06 Akiraaaa has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1176 2011-01-14 17:44:15 devon_hillard has joined
1177 2011-01-14 17:44:16 <slush> weird
1178 2011-01-14 17:44:49 <Kiba> slush: they sold at .39999
1179 2011-01-14 17:45:15 <ArtForz> there were quite a few at 0.44 and 0.45, too ...
1180 2011-01-14 17:45:16 <tcatm> There was a trade at 0.45
1181 2011-01-14 17:45:17 <Kiba> err .3999
1182 2011-01-14 17:45:19 <slush> MTG| TRADE| 90.531 @ $0.45
1183 2011-01-14 17:45:45 <Kiba> that's just the bid price?
1184 2011-01-14 17:45:53 <Kiba> they would get as many bitcoin they would get at the lower price
1185 2011-01-14 17:46:03 <slush> that's just the trade price, I think
1186 2011-01-14 17:46:13 <ArtForz> trade price
1187 2011-01-14 17:46:22 <ArtForz> if you bid higher, you still get the lowest ask
1188 2011-01-14 17:46:42 <ArtForz> well, except when mtgox decides to be is weird
1189 2011-01-14 17:47:07 <Kiba> mtgox must be happy, because the higher the volume, the moar money he make
1190 2011-01-14 17:47:27 <ArtForz> yep
1191 2011-01-14 17:47:36 <ArtForz> 0.6% from both sides of each trade
1192 2011-01-14 17:47:55 <necrodearia> oh? mtgox takes a percentage now?
1193 2011-01-14 17:48:09 <ArtForz> has been since the PayPal debacle
1194 2011-01-14 17:48:12 <midnightmagic> 0.65% i think
1195 2011-01-14 17:48:13 <necrodearia> i see
1196 2011-01-14 17:48:16 <nolan_d> Is there a way to get push notifications from bitcoind whenever events happen (I.e. accounts receive transactions, etc.)?
1197 2011-01-14 17:48:17 <midnightmagic> what art said
1198 2011-01-14 17:48:32 <ArtForz> well, not quite 0.65% either
1199 2011-01-14 17:48:55 <ArtForz> about 0.6458%
1200 2011-01-14 17:49:09 <nolan_d> So you could write web services and such which perform actions on transactions, for instance.
1201 2011-01-14 17:49:11 <Kiba> a decrease in rate?
1202 2011-01-14 17:49:19 <ArtForz> he's doing / 1.0065 instead of * 0.9935
1203 2011-01-14 17:50:11 <ArtForz> same for LR withdraw, /1.01 instead of *0.99
1204 2011-01-14 17:50:16 <midnightmagic> is there a reason for that?
1205 2011-01-14 17:50:23 <ArtForz> dunno
1206 2011-01-14 17:50:24 <slush> hey, I think mtgox has bug with pairing trades. There are really 7 trades >=0.40 but mine wasn't touched
1207 2011-01-14 17:50:41 <ArtForz> I guess so nobody can say they've been overcharged
1208 2011-01-14 17:50:54 <ArtForz> you DONT calculate percentages likethis, but it's in the trader's favor
1209 2011-01-14 17:50:55 <Diablo-D3> slush: Im lazy, go ding your pool thread telling people to upgrade to my miner
1210 2011-01-14 17:51:06 <midnightmagic> huh.
1211 2011-01-14 17:51:07 <slush> Diablo-D3: OK
1212 2011-01-14 17:51:10 <ArtForz> so traders that dont understand how you properly calculate percentages dont feel cheated :P
1213 2011-01-14 17:51:20 <EvanR-work> slush: dark pool? ;)
1214 2011-01-14 17:51:33 <Diablo-D3> slush: I wonder if glib will even help here, its not like the responses are big
1215 2011-01-14 17:51:39 <ArtForz> a 90 BTC dark pool offer?
1216 2011-01-14 17:51:52 <slush> EvanR-work: How can dark pool explain this?
1217 2011-01-14 17:51:54 <Diablo-D3> errr
1218 2011-01-14 17:51:56 <Diablo-D3> gzip
1219 2011-01-14 17:52:05 <nevezen> "dark pool"?
1220 2011-01-14 17:52:13 <ArtForz> well, if someone enters a dark pool only buy
1221 2011-01-14 17:52:21 <ArtForz> but that doesnt explain the 90.something @ 0.45
1222 2011-01-14 17:52:25 <slush> Diablo-D3: It's not big, but there are 100 requests per seconds
1223 2011-01-14 17:52:34 <slush> *per second
1224 2011-01-14 17:52:53 <slush> Diablo-D3: some parts cannot be gzipped (http header itself), but I hope it will help a little
1225 2011-01-14 17:53:49 <slush> Oh, I didn't know there can be 'darkpool only buy'
1226 2011-01-14 17:53:55 <slush> yes, that explain it
1227 2011-01-14 17:54:05 <ArtForz> well, not quite
1228 2011-01-14 17:54:14 <midnightmagic> how ar eyou able to tell what dark orders are active?
1229 2011-01-14 17:54:16 <ArtForz> hmmm.. .actually it might
1230 2011-01-14 17:54:23 <ArtForz> you can't thats the point
1231 2011-01-14 17:54:34 <ArtForz> thoguh I never have seen a completely dark dark pool like mtgoxes anywhere else
1232 2011-01-14 17:54:49 <ArtForz> you usally see the bid/ask but not the amount
1233 2011-01-14 17:55:33 altamic has joined
1234 2011-01-14 17:56:07 <ArtForz> yeah, a dark pool only buy explains it
1235 2011-01-14 17:56:38 <ArtForz> dark pool only buy can get partially filled by a dark pool sell
1236 2011-01-14 17:57:02 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1237 2011-01-14 17:57:22 <midnightmagic> what would the benefit of a dark pool order be?
1238 2011-01-14 17:57:24 <ArtForz> so the 90.531 @ 0.45 were what was left of the dark pool buy over after all lower dark pool sells were exhausted
1239 2011-01-14 17:57:32 <ArtForz> not moving the market
1240 2011-01-14 17:57:56 <ArtForz> a 20kBTC sell looks kinda imposing on the normal order book
1241 2011-01-14 17:58:12 <ArtForz> same way for huge buys
1242 2011-01-14 17:58:26 <ArtForz> imo pointless, but people seem to like it
1243 2011-01-14 17:59:04 <Kiba> I think they're darkpool orders?
1244 2011-01-14 17:59:09 <midnightmagic> i shouldn't be getting such a kick out of this stuff.
1245 2011-01-14 17:59:14 * midnightmagic shakes his fist at satoshi.
1246 2011-01-14 17:59:25 <Kiba> satoshi, the mystery hacker
1247 2011-01-14 18:00:14 <nevezen> how mysterious?
1248 2011-01-14 18:00:56 <Kiba> he's only known for bitcoin
1249 2011-01-14 18:00:58 <Kiba> we don't know the age
1250 2011-01-14 18:00:59 <Kiba> gender
1251 2011-01-14 18:01:04 <Kiba> and nationality
1252 2011-01-14 18:01:21 <Kiba> he said he's Japanese, but people doubt his nationality
1253 2011-01-14 18:01:34 <Kiba> he never spoken a single line of Japanese, for example
1254 2011-01-14 18:02:07 <Kiba> all we know is that Satoshi is the entity responsible for creating bitcoin
1255 2011-01-14 18:02:10 <midnightmagic> no posts from the satoshi account since dec 12, in the forum.
1256 2011-01-14 18:03:00 <midnightmagic> LOL Satoshi = Mendax..
1257 2011-01-14 18:04:00 <newsham> http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/nvidia-announces-project-denver-arm-cpu-for-the-desktop/
1258 2011-01-14 18:04:34 <nevezen> when I think Japanese, I think of winny/perfect dark
1259 2011-01-14 18:06:25 <midnightmagic> when I think of winny, I think of Bad Horse.
1260 2011-01-14 18:07:41 <ArtForz> *shrug* who cares
1261 2011-01-14 18:10:07 <ArtForz> I personnaly think satoshi is a pseudonym for a group of people
1262 2011-01-14 18:11:54 <EvanR-work> satoshi is a hilarious pseudonym for microsoft
1263 2011-01-14 18:12:05 jago25_98 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1264 2011-01-14 18:12:15 <ArtForz> nah, the code is too readable for that
1265 2011-01-14 18:13:18 <ArtForz> if satoshi is a single person I guess he really likes changing coding style between modules for no apparent reason ;)
1266 2011-01-14 18:13:34 <tcatm> Is there a code analyzer that can detect coding styles to find the writer? :)
1267 2011-01-14 18:15:28 <Kiba> ArtForz: if it is a pseudonym for a group of people, doesn't that mean that they code really fast?
1268 2011-01-14 18:15:45 <ArtForz> why?
1269 2011-01-14 18:16:05 <Kiba> because the code output of several individuals is greater than an individual
1270 2011-01-14 18:16:16 <ArtForz> depends
1271 2011-01-14 18:16:23 <ArtForz> usually yes
1272 2011-01-14 18:16:25 <Kiba> and presumbly they work in several modules
1273 2011-01-14 18:16:35 <ArtForz> yep
1274 2011-01-14 18:16:37 <Kiba> so Satoshi should be making changes across various modules
1275 2011-01-14 18:17:02 <ArtForz> I havent really been looking at svn logs
1276 2011-01-14 18:18:49 MT`AwAy is now known as zz_MT`AwAy
1277 2011-01-14 18:19:00 <Kiba> from what I have seen: not many changes between each revision
1278 2011-01-14 18:19:04 <Kiba> development is slowpoke
1279 2011-01-14 18:19:08 <newsham> google: identify source code author
1280 2011-01-14 18:19:47 <Kiba> but that's just my gut feeling based on the code released
1281 2011-01-14 18:20:33 <tcatm> It looks like development started in Visual C++ 6.0
1282 2011-01-14 18:22:30 slush1 has joined
1283 2011-01-14 18:22:59 <Kiba> I wonder if he will ever reveals who he's really is
1284 2011-01-14 18:24:36 <Kiba> Satoshi will someday be world famous
1285 2011-01-14 18:24:51 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1286 2011-01-14 18:24:57 <Kiba> and probably an absolute mystery
1287 2011-01-14 18:27:31 <ArtForz> well, sometimes you just have to tip your hat at an anonymous coder ;)
1288 2011-01-14 18:27:54 <dooglus> the FAQ tells me: "You need to make a backup of the wallet after every transaction, as the old backup file will be partially or fully invalid"
1289 2011-01-14 18:27:56 <newsham> satoshi = l. detweiler
1290 2011-01-14 18:28:13 <Kiba> newsham: ?
1291 2011-01-14 18:28:13 <dooglus> does that mean after each time I receive funds, or only when I initiate transactions?
1292 2011-01-14 18:28:31 <nanotube> dooglus: no there's a 100-key pool now. you must be looking at old data.
1293 2011-01-14 18:28:37 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki securing your wallet
1294 2011-01-14 18:28:37 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet | Jan 8, 2011 ... In the case that your current wallet hasn't been protected adequately (e.g. put online with a weaker password): Making a new secure wallet, ...
1295 2011-01-14 18:28:40 <tcatm> dooglus: both
1296 2011-01-14 18:28:43 <nanotube> dooglus: --^
1297 2011-01-14 18:28:48 <dooglus> tcatm: are you sure?
1298 2011-01-14 18:28:59 <newsham> kiba: kidding.
1299 2011-01-14 18:29:11 <tcatm> dooglus: you should use a new address every TX and that address needs to be backed up
1300 2011-01-14 18:29:41 <nanotube> tcatm: what about the keypool?
1301 2011-01-14 18:30:01 <dooglus> tcatm: I see. so it's not only when I send funds, but also each time I generate a new address. The FAQ ought to mention that I think
1302 2011-01-14 18:30:15 <tcatm> nanotube: after each TX is easier than remembering whether it's been 80 or 90 new keys since last backup
1303 2011-01-14 18:30:53 <nanotube> tcatm: well... you could just do it after each 50 tx. give yourself plenty of leeway, while not overdoing it with backups after every one.
1304 2011-01-14 18:30:54 <dooglus> nanotube: where's the key pool stored? I was looking at http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#How_do_I_backup_my_wallet btw
1305 2011-01-14 18:31:03 <nanotube> dooglus: it's in wallet.dat
1306 2011-01-14 18:31:33 <nanotube> tcatm: (that said... i probably back up after <10 tx myself. :)
1307 2011-01-14 18:31:45 <nanotube> (and for big ones, after 1 hehe)
1308 2011-01-14 18:31:49 <dooglus> nanotube: I'm trying to protect against computer theft / hdd crash / etc. having the pool in wallet.dat is no use in those cases, right?
1309 2011-01-14 18:31:55 <tcatm> a good solution would be to remember the user when he's running out of keys and resetting that counter every backupwallet (+ add such a backup function to the GUI)
1310 2011-01-14 18:32:08 <nanotube> dooglus: if you have wallet.dat backed up, it is quite some use.
1311 2011-01-14 18:32:39 <dooglus> nanotube: ok, I don't understand your original comment then. "no there's a 100-key pool now. you must be looking at old data". what do you mean?
1312 2011-01-14 18:32:41 <nanotube> tcatm: yea some user notifications would probably be in good order
1313 2011-01-14 18:32:55 <nanotube> dooglus: i mean, you don't have to back up after /every tx/. only after 100
1314 2011-01-14 18:33:28 <dooglus> nanotube: but if I make 50 TX then my hdd crashes and I didn't backup, I lose everything, right?
1315 2011-01-14 18:33:37 <nanotube> dooglus: nope
1316 2011-01-14 18:33:41 <nanotube> that's the point
1317 2011-01-14 18:33:49 <nanotube> you do not. you restore your 50-tx-old backup, and you're good as new.
1318 2011-01-14 18:33:58 <nanotube> please read that wiki page. :)
1319 2011-01-14 18:34:01 <dooglus> ok
1320 2011-01-14 18:34:28 <dooglus> because the old backup stores the *next* 100 keys it will use...
1321 2011-01-14 18:34:30 <nevezen> doesn't the network restore it for you, as long as you back up your wallet?
1322 2011-01-14 18:34:34 <nanotube> dooglus: right.
1323 2011-01-14 18:34:40 <dooglus> nanotube: sweet
1324 2011-01-14 18:35:08 <nanotube> nevezen: yes, that's the point of backing up your wallet. :)
1325 2011-01-14 18:36:25 <davout> btw
1326 2011-01-14 18:36:34 <davout> does anyone know how to increase the keypool ?
1327 2011-01-14 18:36:45 <ArtForz> yes
1328 2011-01-14 18:36:47 <davout> do i have to patch the code ?
1329 2011-01-14 18:36:52 <ArtForz> no
1330 2011-01-14 18:36:55 <davout> sweet
1331 2011-01-14 18:37:19 <davout> i want to push it to like 10k keys so even with lots of users i'll be safe with hourly backups on BC
1332 2011-01-14 18:37:24 <davout> so, how
1333 2011-01-14 18:37:27 <davout> :)
1334 2011-01-14 18:37:42 <ArtForz> -keypool
1335 2011-01-14 18:39:27 <Kiba> yay! We're a 2 million dollars economy now!
1336 2011-01-14 18:39:42 <nanotube> btw, just checked... -keypool doesn't even show up in bitcoin --help. what's up with that?
1337 2011-01-14 18:39:49 <davout> han, this option isn't advertised
1338 2011-01-14 18:39:52 <davout> in the --help
1339 2011-01-14 18:39:54 <nanotube> yep
1340 2011-01-14 18:40:17 <davout> FUCK THAT, i'm opening a github issue XD
1341 2011-01-14 18:42:53 <tcatm> davout: better make a patch
1342 2011-01-14 18:43:02 <tcatm> (and attach that to the issue)
1343 2011-01-14 18:44:42 <nanotube> davout: right on. might as well mention all the other args that don't show up in --help
1344 2011-01-14 18:45:33 <nanotube> davout: one that i can recall offhand, is -noirc
1345 2011-01-14 18:45:37 <nanotube> probably others as well.
1346 2011-01-14 18:47:18 <davout> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/issue/31
1347 2011-01-14 18:47:21 <dsg> -maxconnections
1348 2011-01-14 18:47:37 <davout> i would totally fix it if I wasn't a total noob at c++
1349 2011-01-14 18:47:50 <EvanR-work> everyone is a total noob at c++
1350 2011-01-14 18:47:53 <davout> also i have issues to fix on BC
1351 2011-01-14 18:48:24 <davout> OK fuck that, i'm fucking fixing it
1352 2011-01-14 18:48:26 <davout> XD
1353 2011-01-14 18:48:47 * davout forks bitcoin
1354 2011-01-14 18:49:11 <nanotube> heh
1355 2011-01-14 18:49:15 <dsg> I'm still holding out hope for a python bitcoin client
1356 2011-01-14 18:49:34 <dsg> But not motivated enough to write one from scratch :)
1357 2011-01-14 18:49:44 <davout> i'm unsure about how to cleanly submit a pull request
1358 2011-01-14 18:50:14 <davout> i guess i should make a topic branch and rebase against my up-to-date fork of bitcoin/master and then request a pull
1359 2011-01-14 18:50:20 <jgarzik> dsg: You don't have to write one from scratch: http://pastebin.com/ZSM7iHZw
1360 2011-01-14 18:50:24 <davout> AMIRITE?
1361 2011-01-14 18:50:47 <jgarzik> dsg: that talks to the network and parses key data structures
1362 2011-01-14 18:51:06 <dsg> jgarzik: Thanks, is it your code?
1363 2011-01-14 18:51:11 <nanotube> jgarzik: cool you wrote?
1364 2011-01-14 18:52:48 <jgarzik> ArtForz
1365 2011-01-14 18:53:01 <jgarzik> public domain
1366 2011-01-14 18:53:12 <nanotube> nice
1367 2011-01-14 18:53:17 <dsg> Cool, thanks ArtForz :)
1368 2011-01-14 18:53:41 * Kiba goes work on his art project
1369 2011-01-14 18:53:53 <midnightmagic> Your host is irc.smutfairy.com ..?
1370 2011-01-14 18:54:16 <midnightmagic> yeah, that's encouraging..
1371 2011-01-14 18:55:35 TD has joined
1372 2011-01-14 18:55:54 <nanotube> midnightmagic: ? whose host
1373 2011-01-14 18:56:06 <midnightmagic> one of the irc.lfnet servers.
1374 2011-01-14 18:58:01 <nanotube> mm
1375 2011-01-14 18:58:25 <davout> hey
1376 2011-01-14 18:58:26 <davout> so
1377 2011-01-14 18:58:36 <davout> the -keypool options just takes a N param
1378 2011-01-14 18:58:38 <davout> right ?
1379 2011-01-14 18:59:03 <davout> i don't want to fix the help output with something wrong :)
1380 2011-01-14 19:02:59 <nanotube> yes i think so.
1381 2011-01-14 19:03:10 <midnightmagic> so what happens if the #bitcoin channel gets taken over?
1382 2011-01-14 19:03:36 <tcatm> midnightmagic: We have a better chance of regaining OP than now :)
1383 2011-01-14 19:20:39 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
1384 2011-01-14 19:22:19 davout has joined
1385 2011-01-14 19:23:24 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1386 2011-01-14 19:26:06 acous has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1387 2011-01-14 19:26:35 <nevezen> did satoshi create this channel?
1388 2011-01-14 19:27:31 <ArtForz> iirc sirius-m did
1389 2011-01-14 19:30:11 <necrodearia> Registered : Oct 09 07:25:25 2009 (1 year, 13 weeks, 6 days, 12:00:36 ago)
1390 2011-01-14 19:32:27 <ne0futur> /msg chanserv access #bitcoin-dev ist
1391 2011-01-14 19:32:40 <ne0futur> list
1392 2011-01-14 19:37:00 darrob has joined
1393 2011-01-14 19:37:11 molecular has joined
1394 2011-01-14 19:38:36 <Kiba> gene is an idiot
1395 2011-01-14 19:38:51 <ArtForz> gene who?
1396 2011-01-14 19:39:55 <Kiba> new member who is an idiot
1397 2011-01-14 19:40:03 <Kiba> one month old member
1398 2011-01-14 19:40:06 <Diablo-D3> all people are idiots
1399 2011-01-14 19:40:20 <Diablo-D3> its just the degree of idiocy that they differ in.
1400 2011-01-14 19:40:30 * nevezen is only a couple days old
1401 2011-01-14 19:41:35 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: he have an inaccurate picture of libertarianism and what they epouse.
1402 2011-01-14 19:41:48 <Kiba> and he choose the weakest strawman he can find
1403 2011-01-14 19:41:56 <ArtForz> *broken record mode* or he's just trolling
1404 2011-01-14 19:44:41 <EvanR-work> whats the difference betwen libertarianism, anarchy, and old school communism
1405 2011-01-14 19:45:50 <Kiba> anarchy is laws without rulers
1406 2011-01-14 19:46:32 <Kiba> old school communism is some kind of revolutionary philosophy based on Marx's interpretation of Jewish communes
1407 2011-01-14 19:46:44 <Kiba> libertarianism is an ethical theory
1408 2011-01-14 19:46:54 <Kiba> err philosophy
1409 2011-01-14 19:47:26 <EvanR-work> so libertarianismm doesnt say anything about government
1410 2011-01-14 19:47:29 darrob has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1411 2011-01-14 19:47:39 <Kiba> it does
1412 2011-01-14 19:47:41 <ArtForz> problem is each of these terms has been defined and redefined so many times they can pretty much mean whatever the hell you want em to mean
1413 2011-01-14 19:47:49 <EvanR-work> yeah
1414 2011-01-14 19:47:58 <Kiba> if the government bviolate one of the tenant of libertarian ethical theory, it's in the wrong
1415 2011-01-14 19:48:24 <Diablo-D3> [02:37:31] <Kiba> Diablo-D3: he have an inaccurate picture of libertarianism and what they epouse.
1416 2011-01-14 19:48:41 <Diablo-D3> classical libertarianism is dead anyhow
1417 2011-01-14 19:49:17 <Diablo-D3> a lot of people who call themselves Libertarians, with a capital L, are really stock minarchists
1418 2011-01-14 19:49:20 <Kiba> well, he even strawman Ayn Rand
1419 2011-01-14 19:49:21 HarryS has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1420 2011-01-14 19:49:52 <davout> what's an easy way to edit the locale files if i modify strings in some cpp files ?
1421 2011-01-14 19:51:25 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: the real problem is
1422 2011-01-14 19:51:30 <Diablo-D3> the government only needs one form
1423 2011-01-14 19:51:39 <Diablo-D3> the one the current, alive, voting population finds acceptable
1424 2011-01-14 19:52:00 <Diablo-D3> the normal government bullshit keeps it dampened enough that it cant swing wildl
1425 2011-01-14 19:52:06 <Diablo-D3> there are days the government should be big
1426 2011-01-14 19:52:12 <Diablo-D3> there are days the government should be small
1427 2011-01-14 19:52:27 <Diablo-D3> there are days that the government should protect the weak and interfere with big business
1428 2011-01-14 19:52:40 <Diablo-D3> and there are days that its none of their fucking business.
1429 2011-01-14 19:52:47 <Diablo-D3> a truly working government is flexible.
1430 2011-01-14 19:52:52 <Diablo-D3> size doesnt matter
1431 2011-01-14 19:53:01 <ArtForz> I dont think so
1432 2011-01-14 19:53:03 <EvanR-work> when should it interfer with big business
1433 2011-01-14 19:53:22 <Diablo-D3> EvanR-work: when they're using their size as an advantage
1434 2011-01-14 19:53:30 <EvanR-work> if the public are too stupid to protect themselves, dont we have bigger problems
1435 2011-01-14 19:53:31 <Diablo-D3> for example, the deep water horizon accident
1436 2011-01-14 19:53:45 <ArtForz> having a flexible government makes it too easy to follow the latest whim of the voting majority
1437 2011-01-14 19:53:46 <Diablo-D3> thats when the government should step in and crucify the fuckers
1438 2011-01-14 19:54:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: [02:47:56] <Diablo-D3> the normal government bullshit keeps it dampened enough that it cant swing wildly
1439 2011-01-14 19:54:04 <ArtForz> yep
1440 2011-01-14 19:54:11 <Diablo-D3> the pendulum should work on roughly 25 year periods give or take
1441 2011-01-14 19:54:12 <EvanR-work> people should have boycotted BP. whats funny is that here in louisiana, BP pulled out long ago :(
1442 2011-01-14 19:54:13 <davex__> so why do you like bitcoin, diablo? makes it harder for govt to do that.
1443 2011-01-14 19:54:16 <EvanR-work> no more gas stations
1444 2011-01-14 19:54:29 <Diablo-D3> EvanR-work: except BP gas stations are locally owned businesses that are franchised
1445 2011-01-14 19:54:29 <Diablo-D3> AND
1446 2011-01-14 19:54:40 <Diablo-D3> BP gas stations carry whoever has the cheapest gas
1447 2011-01-14 19:54:44 <necrodearia> we don't need gas stations when we can make our own gas
1448 2011-01-14 19:54:47 <Diablo-D3> it could be shell, bp, mobil, anyone
1449 2011-01-14 19:54:57 <EvanR-work> oh
1450 2011-01-14 19:55:01 <necrodearia> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXHG_IrYQrw
1451 2011-01-14 19:55:03 <EvanR-work> gas stations should boycott BP
1452 2011-01-14 19:55:05 <Diablo-D3> not only that, the shell gas station down the road? they might have BP this week
1453 2011-01-14 19:55:09 <Diablo-D3> EvanR-work: they are
1454 2011-01-14 19:55:18 <Kiba> BP already got punished
1455 2011-01-14 19:55:26 <Diablo-D3> a lot of BP franchises are dropping the BP name soon as the contract expires
1456 2011-01-14 19:55:35 <EvanR-work> heh
1457 2011-01-14 19:55:36 <Diablo-D3> because of this shit
1458 2011-01-14 19:55:59 <ArtForz> BPs problem really is that they had a run of bad luck
1459 2011-01-14 19:56:04 <EvanR-work> great, so why does the government have to do anything
1460 2011-01-14 19:56:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes, ignoring test results and lying is quite the bad luck
1461 2011-01-14 19:56:15 <edcba> bad luck lol
1462 2011-01-14 19:56:26 <Kiba> sooner or later, there's going to be oil spill
1463 2011-01-14 19:56:37 <Kiba> sooner or later, an idiotic company is goign to make a mistake
1464 2011-01-14 19:56:44 <ArtForz> and you think other multinationals arent pulling the same stupid stunts to cut corners?
1465 2011-01-14 19:56:46 <edcba> bad luck they have been caught :)
1466 2011-01-14 19:56:51 <ArtForz> yep
1467 2011-01-14 19:56:51 <Kiba> but for the level of wealth of our society, we need oil
1468 2011-01-14 19:56:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes, and they should ALL be punished.
1469 2011-01-14 19:57:04 <edcba> ArtForz: of course other oil companies aren't morally better
1470 2011-01-14 19:57:12 <Diablo-D3> if a law is just, it should be followed
1471 2011-01-14 19:57:22 <edcba> but saying they had bad luck...
1472 2011-01-14 19:57:25 <Diablo-D3> and I recommend that Obama ram that law right up their tight sphincters
1473 2011-01-14 19:57:27 <davex__> natural law is just.
1474 2011-01-14 19:57:31 <Diablo-D3> edcba: the bad luck is that they got caught.
1475 2011-01-14 19:57:32 <ArtForz> its kinda like a pharma co getting caught "financing" study results
1476 2011-01-14 19:57:38 <EvanR-work> natural law cat is natural
1477 2011-01-14 19:57:41 <necrodearia> However, we don't need gas when we can have new urbanism, aka old urbanism aka traditional neighborhood design
1478 2011-01-14 19:57:45 <Diablo-D3> btw
1479 2011-01-14 19:57:51 <Diablo-D3> this is why I support companies like Tesla
1480 2011-01-14 19:58:02 <Diablo-D3> I foresee the death of the oil industry as it is now
1481 2011-01-14 19:58:07 <ArtForz> everyone's doing it, a PR nightmare if you get caught
1482 2011-01-14 19:58:18 <EvanR-work> the vatican does it ;)
1483 2011-01-14 19:58:30 <Diablo-D3> like, that Chevy Volt? its a failure because the oil companies demand it
1484 2011-01-14 19:58:34 <Diablo-D3> but Tesla has no such masters
1485 2011-01-14 19:58:43 <Diablo-D3> they produce a virtually perfect product, as far as cars go
1486 2011-01-14 19:58:48 <nevezen> so better to invest in alternative energy than to continue aimlessly with burning of fossil fuels?
1487 2011-01-14 19:58:50 <Diablo-D3> their shits up there with Toyota.
1488 2011-01-14 19:58:56 <EvanR-work> tesla...
1489 2011-01-14 19:58:58 <Diablo-D3> and now Toyota is going to be producing all electrics by 2020.
1490 2011-01-14 19:59:21 <Diablo-D3> nevezen: yes, according to the 50 year outlook.
1491 2011-01-14 19:59:22 <ArtForz> Tesla are fuckers
1492 2011-01-14 19:59:31 <necrodearia> Tesla needs to have sex too
1493 2011-01-14 19:59:36 <ArtForz> they got a exlusive deal with A123
1494 2011-01-14 19:59:36 <Diablo-D3> delicious rich fuckers that make my favorite car, yes.
1495 2011-01-14 20:00:02 <Kiba> I like SpaceX more than Tesla motor
1496 2011-01-14 20:00:07 <Kiba> we need to get off this fricking planet
1497 2011-01-14 20:00:15 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they have an exclusive deal with panasonic too
1498 2011-01-14 20:00:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but so does toyota
1499 2011-01-14 20:00:31 <Diablo-D3> and toyota is doing heavy business with a123 too
1500 2011-01-14 20:00:35 <ArtForz> yep
1501 2011-01-14 20:00:52 <Diablo-D3> the problem is
1502 2011-01-14 20:00:55 <EvanR-work> human space flight has a very bad cost benefit analysis
1503 2011-01-14 20:00:58 <Diablo-D3> chrysler is doing business with a123
1504 2011-01-14 20:01:02 <Diablo-D3> which I very much dislike
1505 2011-01-14 20:01:04 <ArtForz> yet nobody else can because they happily cross-license patents amongst themselves
1506 2011-01-14 20:01:08 <EvanR-work> mainly due to the energy it takes to get into orbit
1507 2011-01-14 20:01:15 <EvanR-work> usually wasted on reentry
1508 2011-01-14 20:01:20 <Kiba> EvanR-work: that what SpaceX is working on
1509 2011-01-14 20:01:34 <Diablo-D3> EvanR-work: actually, they figured out how to lift 10 times more with somewhat conventional rocket designs
1510 2011-01-14 20:01:36 <EvanR-work> they cant change physics
1511 2011-01-14 20:01:40 <Kiba> I think they're moving toward mass-produced rocket
1512 2011-01-14 20:01:44 <Diablo-D3> new rocket fuel
1513 2011-01-14 20:01:50 <ArtForz> kinda
1514 2011-01-14 20:01:50 <Diablo-D3> it was in the science news over the past month or two
1515 2011-01-14 20:01:55 <Kiba> EvanR-work: but they can remove the brueacracy and other unnecesary expense
1516 2011-01-14 20:01:56 <ArtForz> yeah
1517 2011-01-14 20:02:09 <ArtForz> they managed to synthesizes a few nanograms of the stuff before it exploded
1518 2011-01-14 20:02:14 <EvanR-work> still, if you cant regain the enourmous energy when you come back, thats horrible
1519 2011-01-14 20:02:25 <Diablo-D3> well, the real trick is to just build a space elevator
1520 2011-01-14 20:02:46 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: that seem to be an expensive capital investment
1521 2011-01-14 20:02:50 <Diablo-D3> man, I hope detroit fails
1522 2011-01-14 20:02:52 <EvanR-work> space elevator with regenerative breaking right, need futuristic cable material and futuristic energy storage
1523 2011-01-14 20:02:54 <Diablo-D3> fucking foreigners
1524 2011-01-14 20:02:56 <nevezen> cost effectiveness for space flight won't matter if the earth is dying :)
1525 2011-01-14 20:03:07 <EvanR-work> seems pretty futuristic
1526 2011-01-14 20:03:10 * nevezen watched too many apocalyptic films
1527 2011-01-14 20:03:14 <Diablo-D3> fuck the dodge EV, fuck the chevy EV
1528 2011-01-14 20:03:15 <ArtForz> keeping a compound with that much nitrogen stable is a major trick
1529 2011-01-14 20:03:24 <Kiba> nevezen: earth don't die
1530 2011-01-14 20:03:25 <Kiba> we do
1531 2011-01-14 20:03:27 <EvanR-work> nevezen: yeah im not counting the 'cost' of an asteroid strike
1532 2011-01-14 20:03:36 <Diablo-D3> if you cant make it in america like toyota and tesla, fuck it
1533 2011-01-14 20:03:47 <EvanR-work> whats the cost of the destruction of civilization? infinity? thats useless
1534 2011-01-14 20:03:50 <nevezen> will people care about money if humanity is threatened in a world-ending way?
1535 2011-01-14 20:04:00 RazielZ has quit ()
1536 2011-01-14 20:04:04 <nevezen> I think bitcoin may become irrelevant when that happens..
1537 2011-01-14 20:04:12 <EvanR-work> everything would be irrelevant
1538 2011-01-14 20:04:15 <ArtForz> modern car laws are bullshit anyways
1539 2011-01-14 20:04:16 <EvanR-work> what do you suggest
1540 2011-01-14 20:04:19 <nevezen> yeah, everything :)
1541 2011-01-14 20:04:48 <EvanR-work> if the priority is infinite, then we should starve ourselves preparing for it
1542 2011-01-14 20:04:53 <ArtForz> if theres people wanting to buy econobox deathtraps, let em
1543 2011-01-14 20:05:00 <EvanR-work> anything to avoid the death were trying to prevent
1544 2011-01-14 20:05:03 <EvanR-work> in the process
1545 2011-01-14 20:05:38 Myckel has joined
1546 2011-01-14 20:05:39 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
1547 2011-01-14 20:05:39 Myckel has joined
1548 2011-01-14 20:05:54 <EvanR-work> nevezen: the value of life is not as infinite as it would seem... in practice
1549 2011-01-14 20:06:10 <EvanR-work> hospital budgets... red cross budgets..
1550 2011-01-14 20:06:34 <EvanR-work> so theres a disconnect with reality and save the whales economics ;)
1551 2011-01-14 20:06:41 <lolcat> Is there any basic php scripts for bitcoin that is under a farily free license?
1552 2011-01-14 20:07:02 <ArtForz> you can't legally produce a new car without airbags, side impact protection, ... in the western world
1553 2011-01-14 20:07:19 <lolcat> My airbag don't work
1554 2011-01-14 20:07:23 <ArtForz> which is a pile of fucking bullshit
1555 2011-01-14 20:07:36 <EvanR-work> open source cars
1556 2011-01-14 20:07:57 <EvanR-work> or drive a motor bike
1557 2011-01-14 20:08:04 <ArtForz> thats the fun part
1558 2011-01-14 20:08:18 <ArtForz> nobody is arguing that bikes should be illegal
1559 2011-01-14 20:08:26 <nevezen> because people are stupid and don't drive safely?
1560 2011-01-14 20:08:39 <ArtForz> yet I cant produce something with the safety standards of a '70s rabbit and modern engine tech
1561 2011-01-14 20:08:41 <EvanR-work> it always comes back to the stupid people, doesnt it xD
1562 2011-01-14 20:08:51 <nevezen> haha
1563 2011-01-14 20:09:01 <nevezen> reminds me of idiocracy
1564 2011-01-14 20:09:10 <EvanR-work> let computers drive the cars, then EVERything will work ;)
1565 2011-01-14 20:09:13 <lolcat> ArtForz: In Norway we got something called moped cars, they can only drive for 50-60 km/h, but they don't need any security
1566 2011-01-14 20:09:29 * lolcat starts coding a p2p car network
1567 2011-01-14 20:09:48 <ArtForz> a friend of mine HAS a '70s rabbit with a modern direct injection engine
1568 2011-01-14 20:10:00 <ArtForz> 70 mpg. average.
1569 2011-01-14 20:10:13 <lolcat> Is that good?
1570 2011-01-14 20:10:14 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: 95% of teens these days listen to the same crappy pop songs over and over. if your one of the 5% left who still listen to real music, thunb this up, then copy and paste it to t least 5 video's. DONT LET THE SPIRIT OF ROCK AND ROLL DIE!)
1571 2011-01-14 20:10:18 <lolcat> I use a litre on 10 km.
1572 2011-01-14 20:10:59 <lolcat> I need a link to the json-rpc php libraries
1573 2011-01-14 20:11:02 <ArtForz> well, my daily driver is a fuel economy disaster :P
1574 2011-01-14 20:11:39 <ArtForz> 20 mpg on a good day
1575 2011-01-14 20:12:08 <lolcat> What I do, is I just fill in for 100 nok a week
1576 2011-01-14 20:12:15 <ArtForz> closer to 16 mpg in winter
1577 2011-01-14 20:12:16 <EvanR-work> prepare your long range transportation as if it was a zombie apocalypse, and you have something which will do you well in the real world ;)
1578 2011-01-14 20:12:17 <lolcat> THen if the price increase I drive less
1579 2011-01-14 20:12:22 <EvanR-work> with that added benefit
1580 2011-01-14 20:12:41 larsivi has joined
1581 2011-01-14 20:12:46 <lolcat> EvanR-work: Like an armored bus with flamethrowers?
1582 2011-01-14 20:12:58 <EvanR-work> well, what does it use for fuel? gas?
1583 2011-01-14 20:13:15 <EvanR-work> without electricity, theres no gas, youre screwed
1584 2011-01-14 20:13:26 <ArtForz> a 20 year old naturally aspirated diesel with a pretty much fucked injection pump
1585 2011-01-14 20:13:35 <lolcat> I use gas
1586 2011-01-14 20:13:39 <lolcat> 95 octane
1587 2011-01-14 20:13:47 <midnightmagic> 95?! why?
1588 2011-01-14 20:13:58 <EvanR-work> lolcat: that bus with flamethrowers with a large quantity of reserve fuel, then youre good ;)
1589 2011-01-14 20:13:58 <midnightmagic> wait you're not in N.A. are you?
1590 2011-01-14 20:14:00 <lolcat> Could use 98 too if I feel rich a day, but there is no point
1591 2011-01-14 20:14:13 <lolcat> midnightmagic: Norway, the octane numbers are diffrent
1592 2011-01-14 20:14:33 <midnightmagic> lolcat: yes, i realised that the moment you talked about 98 octane as though it weren't only available to racecars. :)
1593 2011-01-14 20:14:43 <ArtForz> yeah, ROZ can be confusing
1594 2011-01-14 20:15:09 <lolcat> EvanR-work: When I get rich, I want a car with in wheel engines, batteries where the motor should be, and a small 500cc motor underneeth the boot to recharge and a 100 litre gas tank.
1595 2011-01-14 20:15:27 <ArtForz> in wheel engines suck, too much unsprung mass
1596 2011-01-14 20:15:46 <lolcat> But I'd have more torque than a bugati veryron!
1597 2011-01-14 20:15:50 <lolcat> veyron*
1598 2011-01-14 20:16:04 <ArtForz> use short transaxles with low-friction CV joints
1599 2011-01-14 20:16:24 <lolcat> And 4 motors?
1600 2011-01-14 20:16:27 <ArtForz> yep
1601 2011-01-14 20:16:33 <ArtForz> another one of those "wow, why isn't everyone using those" "oh, they're patented" things
1602 2011-01-14 20:16:37 <EvanR-work> lolcat: that sounds difficult to service in the presence of zombies ;)
1603 2011-01-14 20:17:11 <lolcat> EvanR-work: If the 500cc engine is a bit fuel tolerant and modular, I can run it on ethanol, gas, and diesel.
1604 2011-01-14 20:17:25 <ArtForz> you can build a "frictionless" CV joint with 2 coaxial cardan joints
1605 2011-01-14 20:17:36 <ArtForz> aka the Thompson coupling
1606 2011-01-14 20:17:39 <lolcat> Ethanol I can make by griding up zombies and then yeasting them
1607 2011-01-14 20:17:45 <EvanR-work> nice
1608 2011-01-14 20:17:50 <lolcat> ArtForz: But it is patented, by whom?
1609 2011-01-14 20:18:06 <lolcat> Not sure how well you can make ethanol with zombies though...
1610 2011-01-14 20:18:09 <EvanR-work> lolcat: just dont drink it or breathe the exhaust xD
1611 2011-01-14 20:18:13 <ArtForz> mr Thompson
1612 2011-01-14 20:18:20 <lolcat> What company?
1613 2011-01-14 20:18:41 <midnightmagic> pantes only last a while and then they're fair game
1614 2011-01-14 20:18:50 <ArtForz> don't rememebr right now
1615 2011-01-14 20:18:55 <EvanR-work> panties?
1616 2011-01-14 20:19:01 <midnightmagic> =]
1617 2011-01-14 20:19:26 <midnightmagic> patents. NEVER buy an Aten master view CS-1762 KVM
1618 2011-01-14 20:19:31 <EvanR-work> lol
1619 2011-01-14 20:19:39 <ArtForz> looks like it's http://www.thompsoncouplings.com/
1620 2011-01-14 20:19:42 <midnightmagic> pretty much 90% of all my spelling errors are due to that stupid thing
1621 2011-01-14 20:20:33 <ArtForz> the damn thing is patented fucking everywhere
1622 2011-01-14 20:20:48 <lolcat> I want one of those monorails
1623 2011-01-14 20:20:53 <lolcat> Those would be epic
1624 2011-01-14 20:21:05 <lolcat> In a vaccum tunnel ofc
1625 2011-01-14 20:21:16 <lolcat> Then I'd go faster than the speed of sound!
1626 2011-01-14 20:21:25 <midnightmagic> HAHAHA
1627 2011-01-14 20:21:43 <ArtForz> fun part of thompson couplings, change the race geometry a bit and you can have a load-bearing CV joint
1628 2011-01-14 20:22:12 <lolcat> Europe, does that mean only the EU?
1629 2011-01-14 20:22:43 <ArtForz> iirc they pretty much got it patented in all of the industrialized world
1630 2011-01-14 20:23:05 <midnightmagic> if you are not actually using it for commercial purposes, can you still get hammered if you build one of those on your own?
1631 2011-01-14 20:23:16 <midnightmagic> like for a home-built car or something?
1632 2011-01-14 20:23:16 <ArtForz> theoretically, yes
1633 2011-01-14 20:23:27 <lolcat> Just don't show anyone your car
1634 2011-01-14 20:23:29 <EvanR-work> speed of sound in a vacuum? sounds pretty damn fast
1635 2011-01-14 20:23:29 <ArtForz> practically, they wouldn't bother suing you
1636 2011-01-14 20:23:42 <ArtForz> my employer looked into it for a bit, but the licensing fees they want are fucking crazy
1637 2011-01-14 20:23:55 zz_MT`AwAy is now known as MT`AwAy
1638 2011-01-14 20:24:04 <midnightmagic> hey, out of pure curiosity, what is your profession anyway?
1639 2011-01-14 20:24:12 <ArtForz> so we keep using plain ole double cardan joints and live with the vibrational imbalance
1640 2011-01-14 20:24:26 <ArtForz> technically I'm an EE
1641 2011-01-14 20:25:20 <ArtForz> I work for a company designing printing + binding systems for book industry
1642 2011-01-14 20:25:51 <midnightmagic> very nice.
1643 2011-01-14 20:25:53 <lolcat> 8000 km/h is the speed a monorail maglev train theoreticaly can do in a near-vaccum tube
1644 2011-01-14 20:26:45 <ArtForz> pretty cool stuff really
1645 2011-01-14 20:26:45 <midnightmagic> do you make short-run or one-off-capable presses?
1646 2011-01-14 20:26:51 <ArtForz> one-off
1647 2011-01-14 20:26:58 <midnightmagic> yes, those are very cool. wave of the future.
1648 2011-01-14 20:27:19 <ArtForz> our main customers are doing photobooks and digital print-to-order
1649 2011-01-14 20:27:30 <midnightmagic> my wife used to edit books for a company that did vanity and short-run prints.
1650 2011-01-14 20:27:34 <ArtForz> iirc we were the first with a completely hands-off process
1651 2011-01-14 20:28:50 <midnightmagic> in that case, it wouldn't surprise me at all if your employer's press was what enabled my wife's employer to exist. :)
1652 2011-01-14 20:28:58 <ArtForz> = we can do a fully automated system from press to shipping :)
1653 2011-01-14 20:29:44 ApertureScience has joined
1654 2011-01-14 20:29:47 <ArtForz> though most of our customers dont want it quite *that* automated
1655 2011-01-14 20:30:36 <ArtForz> old case of one-time vs. recurring costs
1656 2011-01-14 20:30:56 <midnightmagic> not to suck up, but i consider bookmaking to be a noble profession in general.
1657 2011-01-14 20:31:45 <nanotube> announcement: there's an i2p-freenode irc relay set up on #bitcoin-discussion. anyone who wants to chat with i2p folks, or who wants to use i2p to chat with freenode folks... feel free to drop in.
1658 2011-01-14 20:32:00 <nanotube> also, question for the regulars on here: would you want an i2p relay on this channel as well?
1659 2011-01-14 20:32:40 <midnightmagic> since you have duck's attention, looks like, i would say yes as long as the notification was converted to privmsg instead.
1660 2011-01-14 20:32:56 <tcatm> nanotube: vote for no relay
1661 2011-01-14 20:33:51 <lolcat> Do I need a special bitcoind to use json-rpc?
1662 2011-01-14 20:34:16 <tcatm> lolcat: no, but you should wait for 0.3.20 depending on what you're going to do
1663 2011-01-14 20:34:30 <nanotube> midnightmagic: what notification?
1664 2011-01-14 20:34:44 <lolcat> tcatm: A website for stuff, transfering and such
1665 2011-01-14 20:35:44 <tcatm> lolcat: wait for 0.3.20. There a some important bugfixes
1666 2011-01-14 20:35:54 <lolcat> Long?
1667 2011-01-14 20:36:13 <tcatm> No idea, but it's not too far away
1668 2011-01-14 20:36:38 <midnightmagic> nanotube: gribble was notifying rather than straight privmsg: -gribble/#bitcoin-discussion- ReturningNovice (ReturningNovice!ReturningN@irc2p) has joined on i2p
1669 2011-01-14 20:37:02 <nanotube> midnightmagic: that'd be even worse. to have regular msgs for the join/parts.
1670 2011-01-14 20:37:15 <nanotube> at least with notices, people can easily ignore them if they so choose
1671 2011-01-14 20:37:52 <qube23> freenode can be used via tor. what is the advantage of using i2p instead of tor?
1672 2011-01-14 20:38:09 <nanotube> because some people like i2p :)
1673 2011-01-14 20:38:31 <lolcat> Cant you do tor through ip2?
1674 2011-01-14 20:38:47 <nanotube> lolcat: no idea, why not join #bitcoin-discussion and ask the i2p folks :)
1675 2011-01-14 20:45:42 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1676 2011-01-14 20:54:14 slush1 is now known as slush
1677 2011-01-14 20:54:27 slush has quit (Changing host)
1678 2011-01-14 20:54:27 slush has joined
1679 2011-01-14 21:17:00 <midnightmagic> i2p is awesome
1680 2011-01-14 21:18:11 <brocktice> midnightmagic: why?
1681 2011-01-14 21:18:20 <brocktice> midnightmagic: I'd never even heard of it til I started using bitcoin
1682 2011-01-14 21:18:26 <brocktice> freenet and tor I've both used
1683 2011-01-14 21:18:55 <midnightmagic> i2p is much easier to use, and i think its platform is superior to tor. (have no idea about technical head:head tho)
1684 2011-01-14 21:19:04 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
1685 2011-01-14 21:19:28 <nevezen> freenet is slow though
1686 2011-01-14 21:19:44 <ArtForz> slow-ish
1687 2011-01-14 21:19:55 <brocktice> when I used it it was glacial
1688 2011-01-14 21:20:33 <midnightmagic> freenet is slow enough i am not able to functionally use it. plus i've never actually witnessed it migrating popular documents around in response to load. it always seemed like the most popular docs were always the hardest to download.
1689 2011-01-14 21:21:03 <ArtForz> yeah, freenets content replication has been buggy for... ages
1690 2011-01-14 21:21:18 <ArtForz> and how long since we had working splitfile healing?
1691 2011-01-14 21:21:26 <midnightmagic> ooo good point
1692 2011-01-14 21:22:05 <ArtForz> not tome mention I can't see a way to usefully put something like bitcoin on top of freenet without creating a whole new p2p network on top ala freetalk
1693 2011-01-14 21:22:32 <brocktice> Oh, BTW I am now a Witizen
1694 2011-01-14 21:22:40 <midnightmagic> tahoe-lafs works on i2p
1695 2011-01-14 21:22:44 <nanotube> brocktice: nice!
1696 2011-01-14 21:23:01 <brocktice> They are lacking in people with commercial initiative, so there's definitely room for bitcoin.
1697 2011-01-14 21:23:17 <ArtForz> bitcoin over tor or i2p looks Not That Hard(tm)
1698 2011-01-14 21:23:36 <brocktice> Haven't tried it yet, but it's on my to-do list
1699 2011-01-14 21:23:42 <brocktice> w/ Tor
1700 2011-01-14 21:24:16 <ArtForz> we'd still have to create a new addr() message capable of handling something like a .onion addr()
1701 2011-01-14 21:24:57 <ArtForz> as I dont quite see the point of tor support if you can't run a hidden service only bitcoin node ;)
1702 2011-01-14 21:25:56 <ArtForz> having the ability to run bitcoin open, tor-only or mixed would certainly make disrupting the bitcoin network a lot harder
1703 2011-01-14 21:26:43 asdf30 has joined
1704 2011-01-14 21:28:41 <slush> When I make my bitcoin node accessible with tor, will it help somehow? Relaying transactions or so...
1705 2011-01-14 21:28:54 <slush> afaik tor nodes can connect directly to non-tor without problems...
1706 2011-01-14 21:29:01 <ArtForz> yep
1707 2011-01-14 21:29:40 <ArtForz> but I dont quite see the point of using tor as a transport if you have publically known IPs on both ends?
1708 2011-01-14 21:29:56 <slush> ...but I have to advertise onion address somewhere
1709 2011-01-14 21:30:12 <slush> ArtForz: no, tor has own IP space 10.xxx
1710 2011-01-14 21:30:13 <nevezen> are transactions transmitted in the clear though?
1711 2011-01-14 21:30:18 * nevezen read something about that
1712 2011-01-14 21:30:43 <ArtForz> on bitcoin everything is transmitted in the clear
1713 2011-01-14 21:31:00 <nevezen> What about using vpn?
1714 2011-01-14 21:31:14 <ArtForz> yeah, that'd work too
1715 2011-01-14 21:31:38 <nevezen> openvpn or some other zero config like hamachi.. :/
1716 2011-01-14 21:32:13 <ArtForz> shrug, I just think that having a "public" network of hidden service nodes would be pretty damn cool
1717 2011-01-14 21:34:44 <nanotube> yea it would.
1718 2011-01-14 21:34:58 <nanotube> dunno much about i2p, but could be possible to do similar with i2p
1719 2011-01-14 21:36:20 <midnightmagic> http://www.i2p2.de/udp.html
1720 2011-01-14 21:36:22 devon_hillard_ has joined
1721 2011-01-14 21:36:39 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1722 2011-01-14 21:41:16 <nevezen> what was that now defunct network that utilized internet2?
1723 2011-01-14 21:44:50 <Kiba> specialists who generalize in a couple of area
1724 2011-01-14 21:44:51 <Kiba> hmm
1725 2011-01-14 21:46:54 <nevezen> oh, i2hub
1726 2011-01-14 21:48:41 <Kiba> look like bitcoin central is taking off
1727 2011-01-14 21:52:31 <ArtForz> still tiny compared to mtgox, but yeah
1728 2011-01-14 21:54:54 devon_hillard_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1729 2011-01-14 21:55:13 <Kiba> bcEur have biggest volume record reached today
1730 2011-01-14 21:59:02 <Kiba> wow, gene is pissing off people...
1731 2011-01-14 21:59:39 <EvanR-work> whos this gene and where
1732 2011-01-14 21:59:51 devon_hillard has joined
1733 2011-01-14 22:00:03 <Kiba> on da forum
1734 2011-01-14 22:00:11 spinningsheep has joined
1735 2011-01-14 22:00:37 davout has joined
1736 2011-01-14 22:06:45 <brocktice> Yeah well, given what I've been reading in the WSJ, anyone in the Euro Zone would do well to buy BTC now...
1737 2011-01-14 22:08:03 <lfm> oh?
1738 2011-01-14 22:08:07 <brocktice> with Greece, Portugal, Ireland all having sovereign debt issues
1739 2011-01-14 22:08:25 <lfm> oh thats months old news
1740 2011-01-14 22:08:26 <brocktice> And fears of more to come
1741 2011-01-14 22:08:42 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1742 2011-01-14 22:08:43 <brocktice> Sure, but it appears to be getting worse
1743 2011-01-14 22:08:48 <jgarzik> BTC will continue to be _highly_ volatile for many months to come. Possibly its entire lifetime.
1744 2011-01-14 22:08:48 <ArtForz> not really
1745 2011-01-14 22:09:13 <brocktice> I'm no expert, I'm just saying what I read in the paper. :)
1746 2011-01-14 22:09:28 <jgarzik> yeah - the eurozone debt stuff has been getting better lately. The Chinese are even swooping in to buy Greek debt, etc.
1747 2011-01-14 22:09:43 <brocktice> I tell you what, I wish I had an easy way to buy yuan
1748 2011-01-14 22:09:45 skeledrew has joined
1749 2011-01-14 22:09:54 <brocktice> Is there a yuan-btc exchange anywhere?
1750 2011-01-14 22:10:16 <jgarzik> not yet
1751 2011-01-14 22:10:43 <jgarzik> though China just began permitting some currency trading, a few days ago
1752 2011-01-14 22:10:52 <brocktice> yep
1753 2011-01-14 22:12:54 <ArtForz> the only country that could really destabilize the euro would be Spain
1754 2011-01-14 22:13:15 <midnightmagic> now there's an interesting statement. howso?
1755 2011-01-14 22:13:52 <lfm> its bigger than those others
1756 2011-01-14 22:13:56 <ArtForz> well, simply because they're running a pretty big debt in absolute terms
1757 2011-01-14 22:14:52 <ArtForz> portugal and greece might had a big deficit compared to their GDP, but compared to the economies of spain, italy, germany, france they're pretty small fish
1758 2011-01-14 22:16:53 <ArtForz> ireland doesnt count, what they pulled wasn't mismanagement, it was fucking fiscal suicide
1759 2011-01-14 22:17:07 <davout> greece debt note just went from BBB+ to BB+
1760 2011-01-14 22:17:19 <davout> or BBB- to BB+, sthg like that
1761 2011-01-14 22:17:28 <brocktice> ArtForz: agreed, it was a bad move
1762 2011-01-14 22:17:31 <Kiba> so their debt situation got better?
1763 2011-01-14 22:17:35 <davout> worse'
1764 2011-01-14 22:17:48 <Kiba> their economy will be fine
1765 2011-01-14 22:17:52 <Kiba> cause it
1766 2011-01-14 22:17:56 <Kiba> 's underground anyway
1767 2011-01-14 22:17:57 <davout> hopefully
1768 2011-01-14 22:18:06 <davout> their debt will get more expensive tho
1769 2011-01-14 22:18:16 <davout> i'm no economist :)
1770 2011-01-14 22:18:35 <ArtForz> well, iirc germany and france posted record GDP growth last quarter, and they want to increase the bailout limit even more
1771 2011-01-14 22:18:58 <Kiba> Good for them. We're also experiencing record GDP growth
1772 2011-01-14 22:19:04 <Kiba> and we got fine without a government budget
1773 2011-01-14 22:19:12 <Kiba> got along*
1774 2011-01-14 22:20:59 <ArtForz> imo GDP is very badly defined
1775 2011-01-14 22:22:06 <ArtForz> but I can say that the economic situation in germany at least is looking pretty good from here
1776 2011-01-14 22:22:54 <davout> yep, even in france germans are shown as financial examples
1777 2011-01-14 22:23:22 <ArtForz> dunno if fiscal policy really had much to do with it
1778 2011-01-14 22:23:31 <brocktice> see, this is why we need bitcoin
1779 2011-01-14 22:23:36 <brocktice> I tried to order some hardware on newegg
1780 2011-01-14 22:23:40 <brocktice> and my card was declined
1781 2011-01-14 22:23:50 <brocktice> despite having 7x the purchase amount in credit
1782 2011-01-14 22:24:03 <brocktice> so now I have to deal with calling the CC company to clear whatever fraud crap is in the way
1783 2011-01-14 22:24:26 <ArtForz> damn, that fucking sucks
1784 2011-01-14 22:24:35 <brocktice> yep!
1785 2011-01-14 22:24:42 <Kiba> bitcoin is cold hard cash
1786 2011-01-14 22:24:46 <Kiba> minius the cold and hard
1787 2011-01-14 22:24:57 <brocktice> yeah in here the bitcoins are warm :)
1788 2011-01-14 22:24:58 <ArtForz> minus the cash
1789 2011-01-14 22:25:00 <brocktice> hot even
1790 2011-01-14 22:25:05 <ArtForz> so "bitcoin is"
1791 2011-01-14 22:25:23 <ArtForz> which is a very ... philosophical statement
1792 2011-01-14 22:25:41 <Kiba> bitcoin is just weird
1793 2011-01-14 22:25:57 <Kiba> it defy conventions
1794 2011-01-14 22:26:25 <ArtForz> I wonder if a PRNG would do worse than those CC fraud detection algorithms :P
1795 2011-01-14 22:27:36 <ArtForz> yep
1796 2011-01-14 22:28:54 hpj has left ()
1797 2011-01-14 22:29:36 <ArtForz> I just dont see bitcoin as a cash subsitute, its features are just too different
1798 2011-01-14 22:30:23 <ArtForz> in usage it works more like a replacement for bank checking/debit accounts
1799 2011-01-14 22:30:48 <brocktice> well that's nice, while I was on hold their fraud dept called me directly to clear it up
1800 2011-01-14 22:31:05 <brocktice> still, unnecessary PITA
1801 2011-01-14 22:31:12 <Kiba> brocktice: you're buying with bitcoinbonus?
1802 2011-01-14 22:31:15 <brocktice> no
1803 2011-01-14 22:31:16 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1804 2011-01-14 22:31:22 <brocktice> stupid neural nets
1805 2011-01-14 22:31:36 <davout> imo BTC will eventually replace e-gold/e-currency
1806 2011-01-14 22:31:48 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1807 2011-01-14 22:31:59 * davout pours himself some chivas regal
1808 2011-01-14 22:32:07 <ArtForz> you have a problem, you decide to use a learning algorithm, now you have two problems :P
1809 2011-01-14 22:32:14 <brocktice> hahaha
1810 2011-01-14 22:32:54 <EvanR-work> is egold and other ecurrency easily traded for btc yet
1811 2011-01-14 22:33:23 <EvanR-work> is egold even still around or has it been shutdown by the government yet
1812 2011-01-14 22:33:49 <jgarzik> EvanR-work: c-gold, pecunix gau and GlobalDigitalPay gold exist as alternatives
1813 2011-01-14 22:33:55 <ArtForz> yep
1814 2011-01-14 22:34:11 <ArtForz> iirc egold is pretty much dead
1815 2011-01-14 22:34:14 <EvanR-work> oh
1816 2011-01-14 22:34:23 <jgarzik> e-gold limps along, still existing as a zombie for existing account holders, but is basically dead.
1817 2011-01-14 22:34:28 <tcatm> v0.3 of js-remote is ready (it's much faster now)
1818 2011-01-14 22:34:34 <ArtForz> "pining for the fjords"
1819 2011-01-14 22:35:03 <EvanR-work> that phrase means its dead but appears alive?
1820 2011-01-14 22:35:19 <Kiba> zombies?
1821 2011-01-14 22:35:27 <ArtForz> it's dead in any real sense, it just doesn't want to admit it
1822 2011-01-14 22:35:38 <nevezen> vampire
1823 2011-01-14 22:35:42 <ArtForz> dead parrot sketch
1824 2011-01-14 22:36:33 <Kiba> I am sure governmental authority will find it hard to persecute Satoshi Nakamoto
1825 2011-01-14 22:36:37 <lfm> undead
1826 2011-01-14 22:37:08 <davout> Kiba: he's already dead
1827 2011-01-14 22:37:09 <ArtForz> yep
1828 2011-01-14 22:37:33 <ArtForz> depends on your definition of dead
1829 2011-01-14 22:37:48 <brocktice> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2757.msg38048#msg38048
1830 2011-01-14 22:37:54 <Kiba> davout: in that case, impossible
1831 2011-01-14 22:38:19 <EvanR-work> he suffocated under his pile of coins
1832 2011-01-14 22:38:22 <brocktice> Ah excellent, charge went through this time
1833 2011-01-14 22:38:27 <ArtForz> lol
1834 2011-01-14 22:38:29 <brocktice> Sweet 42" goodness, here I come
1835 2011-01-14 22:38:43 <EvanR-work> they still havent found the body
1836 2011-01-14 22:39:12 <ArtForz> imaginary persons usually don't leave bodys
1837 2011-01-14 22:39:19 <brocktice> Sure they do
1838 2011-01-14 22:39:23 <brocktice> imaginary bodies
1839 2011-01-14 22:39:23 <davout> some part of me hopes he's dead so his coins are lost and mine are worth more, the other part yells at the first part for being an insensitive asshole
1840 2011-01-14 22:39:43 <brocktice> davout: Don't talk about ArtForz like that
1841 2011-01-14 22:39:53 <davout> brocktice: lol
1842 2011-01-14 22:39:58 <ArtForz> hey, I'm not quite dead yet
1843 2011-01-14 22:40:16 <ArtForz> okay, what is it with me and monty python skits today ...
1844 2011-01-14 22:40:22 <davout> ArtForz: care to take a turing test ?
1845 2011-01-14 22:40:26 <Kiba> Satoshi outwitted the bankers!
1846 2011-01-14 22:40:30 <brocktice> My wife forbade me from quoting monty python in her presence
1847 2011-01-14 22:40:32 * ArtForz blames youtube
1848 2011-01-14 22:40:39 <brocktice> It took a while but I managed to more or less exorcise it
1849 2011-01-14 22:40:43 <brocktice> probably for the better
1850 2011-01-14 22:41:08 <davout> here's your goddamn shrubbery, will you please stop now ?
1851 2011-01-14 22:41:10 <Kiba> brocktice got dominated by his own wife. Sad.
1852 2011-01-14 22:41:17 <ArtForz> go to hell you lowlife piece of garbage
1853 2011-01-14 22:41:17 <EvanR-work> it shouldnt be that hard to investigate satoshi
1854 2011-01-14 22:41:22 <EvanR-work> unless he was very careful
1855 2011-01-14 22:41:33 <ArtForz> oh sorry, you wanted an argument? this is abuse.
1856 2011-01-14 22:41:57 <brocktice> Kiba: Happy wife, happy life
1857 2011-01-14 22:42:06 <brocktice> Also, quoting movies all the time is kind of unoriginal
1858 2011-01-14 22:42:10 <davout> brocktice: +1
1859 2011-01-14 22:42:44 <lfm> quoting tv is worse
1860 2011-01-14 22:43:02 <EvanR-work> i scream you scream we all scream for icecream
1861 2011-01-14 22:43:41 <ArtForz> *picard facepalm*
1862 2011-01-14 22:44:02 <EvanR-work> engage
1863 2011-01-14 22:44:40 <brocktice> Hey ArtForz, workstation shuts down suddenly, won't turn on for several minutes. Overheat?
1864 2011-01-14 22:44:43 * Kiba looks for community that discuss spacex and other space projects
1865 2011-01-14 22:44:51 <ArtForz> soudns liek it
1866 2011-01-14 22:44:57 <EvanR-work> Kiba: #space is pretty good
1867 2011-01-14 22:45:01 <donpdonp> Kiba: #space is active
1868 2011-01-14 22:45:03 <brocktice> What I wonder is how to tell whether it's the PSU or the motherboard
1869 2011-01-14 22:45:18 <EvanR-work> but the politics and economics of reality will likely discourage you xD
1870 2011-01-14 22:45:45 <ArtForz> I usually leave side panel off, check what gets really hot by holding the back of my hand near it
1871 2011-01-14 22:45:51 <ArtForz> CPU temp is easy to check
1872 2011-01-14 22:46:04 <ArtForz> good candidates are northbridge and PSU
1873 2011-01-14 22:46:11 <lfm> brocktrice look for stopped or slow fans
1874 2011-01-14 22:46:49 <brocktice> I think it was that stupid powercolor 5770
1875 2011-01-14 22:46:57 <ArtForz> if you have a lot of exhaust fans and GPUs exhausting air, make sure your PSU actually still exhausts air
1876 2011-01-14 22:46:58 <brocktice> I stopped mining on it for now, we'll see if that helps
1877 2011-01-14 22:47:19 <brocktice> ArtForz: yeah I backwinded the PSU when I was testing the ASUS 5970 in here, whoops.
1878 2011-01-14 22:47:23 <brocktice> But that's not the case anymore.
1879 2011-01-14 22:47:25 <ArtForz> negative pressure in case = usually PSU loses airflow first
1880 2011-01-14 22:47:29 <brocktice> I ordered some upgraded case fans though
1881 2011-01-14 22:47:42 <brocktice> will hopefully be pushing ~60CFM in the front
1882 2011-01-14 22:47:49 <ArtForz> I generally don't use case exhaust fans
1883 2011-01-14 22:47:56 <ArtForz> one or 2 120mm intake fans
1884 2011-01-14 22:48:10 <brocktice> you know, the psu isn't pushing out a lot of air now that you mention it
1885 2011-01-14 22:48:26 <ArtForz> positive pressure in case = good, also makes keeping dust out with filters a lot easier
1886 2011-01-14 22:48:47 <brocktice> yep
1887 2011-01-14 22:49:18 <brocktice> I should probably get a fan bay for the spare 5.25 in front
1888 2011-01-14 22:49:34 <ArtForz> I kinda like scythe slipstream fans for "normal" boxes
1889 2011-01-14 22:49:41 <brocktice> ArtForz: that's what I got for the main intake
1890 2011-01-14 22:50:08 <ArtForz> for miners nothing beats a bunch of ultra kazes on perf/$
1891 2011-01-14 22:50:22 <brocktice> They move air through my rad nicely
1892 2011-01-14 22:50:42 <brocktice> If only I had a little more space I'd put 3 more on the other side
1893 2011-01-14 22:51:02 <ArtForz> I still want to try something a bit more crazy
1894 2011-01-14 22:52:45 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1895 2011-01-14 22:52:48 <ArtForz> one single exhaust fan for all my 5970s
1896 2011-01-14 22:53:15 <brocktice> ArtForz: shop vac?
1897 2011-01-14 22:53:32 <ArtForz> kinda
1898 2011-01-14 22:53:43 <brocktice> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/gm-wind-tunnel-fan.jpg&imgrefurl=http://green.autoblog.com/tag/wind-tunnel-volt/&h=300&w=450&sz=29&tbnid=7wJZD_-1TNgEYM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgeneral%2Bmotors%2Bwind%2Btunnel&zoom=1&q=general+motors+wind+tunnel&usg=__eSBIRaYROD1WhMG5SJ5v7TIrRV0=&sa=X&ei=-tIwTdqiFYjVgQe6qs2PCw&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAw
1899 2011-01-14 22:53:51 <brocktice> sorry the link sucks
1900 2011-01-14 22:53:55 <ArtForz> 250W blower w/ 6" intake and exhaust
1901 2011-01-14 22:54:14 <brocktice> http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/gm-wind-tunnel-fan.jpg
1902 2011-01-14 22:54:17 <brocktice> there that's better
1903 2011-01-14 22:54:30 <ArtForz> neat
1904 2011-01-14 22:55:07 <ArtForz> nice mint condition unit really
1905 2011-01-14 22:55:20 <ArtForz> about 15 years old, never used
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1907 2011-01-14 22:55:41 <ArtForz> iirc it was a spare for something or other which got decomissioned
1908 2011-01-14 22:57:16 <brocktice> you could cool at least 20 5970s with that
1909 2011-01-14 22:57:22 <ArtForz> yep
1910 2011-01-14 22:57:52 <ArtForz> I have to figure out some way to deal with exhaust heat in summer
1911 2011-01-14 22:58:02 <brocktice> Yeah the thought is crossing my mind here too
1912 2011-01-14 22:58:26 <brocktice> we have a vent to the outside to intake air for an HE furnace
1913 2011-01-14 22:58:32 <brocktice> but we don't have an HE furnace, long story
1914 2011-01-14 22:58:53 <brocktice> I may try to run the duct through the joists here in the basement and hook it up to the back-end
1915 2011-01-14 22:59:32 <ArtForz> so my idea is to put a kind of hood over the exhausts and vent it outside with that blower and ducting
1916 2011-01-14 22:59:53 <brocktice> not bad, fans on the cards running?
1917 2011-01-14 23:00:05 <ArtForz> I'll have to see if they need to
1918 2011-01-14 23:00:16 <ArtForz> probably yes, as the PSUs dont provide a lot of air resistance
1919 2011-01-14 23:01:01 <ArtForz> might have to restrict intake to reduce airflow through the PSUs
1920 2011-01-14 23:02:15 <ArtForz> *shrug* worst case I have to build slightly different cases
1921 2011-01-14 23:02:22 <lfm> give psu separate intake of fresh air
1922 2011-01-14 23:02:30 <ArtForz> the already have
1923 2011-01-14 23:03:06 <lfm> http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/16992/?mod=related&a=f
1924 2011-01-14 23:03:41 <ArtForz> basic case layout: http://bayimg.com/KAAeaaAdp
1925 2011-01-14 23:04:09 <ArtForz> theres a pretty airtight divider in the center
1926 2011-01-14 23:04:22 <brocktice> "The time is ripe for better computer cooling technology. In essence, CPUs are tiny radiators, which happen to do computational work as they busily convert electricity into heat."
1927 2011-01-14 23:04:27 <ArtForz> CPU and PSUs have a 120mm intake, GPUs have 2*120mm intake
1928 2011-01-14 23:04:33 <brocktice> alright, mahlzeit
1929 2011-01-14 23:04:35 <brocktice> back later
1930 2011-01-14 23:04:57 <davout> es ist zu spÃat um golf zu spielen
1931 2011-01-14 23:05:21 * davout mags rauchwurst und zum kino zu gehen
1932 2011-01-14 23:05:42 * davout likes german
1933 2011-01-14 23:07:50 <ArtForz> widerstand ist zwecklos ... oder war's leistung durch strom ins quadrat...
1934 2011-01-14 23:08:51 <ArtForz> that actually works in english, too
1935 2011-01-14 23:09:14 <ArtForz> resistance is futile... or was it power divided by current squared...
1936 2011-01-14 23:09:55 <davout> :D
1937 2011-01-14 23:11:42 <Kiba> where can I get these kind of jet, lfm ?
1938 2011-01-14 23:12:01 * davout is pulling is hair out on how to make the most clever trade order input form
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1940 2011-01-14 23:12:13 <ArtForz> model BLDC motors are fucking awesome
1941 2011-01-14 23:12:29 <ArtForz> papst realized that, thats how they built a 130W 120x38mm fan ...
1942 2011-01-14 23:13:17 <ArtForz> 3-phase BLDC has way higher power density than the normal shaded pole 2-phase motors used in fans
1943 2011-01-14 23:14:13 <ArtForz> model BLDCs also make for awesome motors for "toy" EVs
1944 2011-01-14 23:14:22 <Kiba> EVs?
1945 2011-01-14 23:14:27 <Kiba> BLDC?
1946 2011-01-14 23:14:32 <ArtForz> Electric Vehicles
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1948 2011-01-14 23:14:40 <ArtForz> BrushLess Direct Current
1949 2011-01-14 23:14:59 <ArtForz> basically a small 3-phase synchronous motor designed to be driven with square wave
1950 2011-01-14 23:15:24 akem has joined
1951 2011-01-14 23:15:24 <Kiba> Ok, I give up
1952 2011-01-14 23:15:41 <ArtForz> a 51mm dia x 55mm length motor weighing about a pound has > 1kW
1953 2011-01-14 23:15:41 <edcba> printer motors like
1954 2011-01-14 23:15:50 <ArtForz> yeah, just WAY more power
1955 2011-01-14 23:16:00 <edcba> ie easily electronically controlable
1956 2011-01-14 23:16:07 <ArtForz> yep
1957 2011-01-14 23:16:47 <ArtForz> I built a electric flatbed cargo cart with one of them just for fun
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1960 2011-01-14 23:17:35 <ArtForz> using sealed lead acid because LiAnything is just too expensive
1961 2011-01-14 23:18:20 <ArtForz> the chinese BLDC model motors can be used to build decently sturdy motors if you re-glue the magnets, repalce the bearings with something decent and don't run em > 50% rated power
1962 2011-01-14 23:18:43 <ArtForz> yet 400W+ in such a small package for $40 is just fucking awesome
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1967 2011-01-14 23:34:08 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
1968 2011-01-14 23:34:09 <gribble> 18459.19869342
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1973 2011-01-14 23:37:17 <Ljrn900> can i pay my dentist in btc?
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1981 2011-01-14 23:59:07 <andrew12> Ljrn900: it depends if you can get them to accept it or not :P