1 2011-01-15 00:02:26 <midnightmagic> Ljrn900: ask him!
   2 2011-01-15 00:03:28 <midnightmagic> a lot of them participate in bartering networks. maybe it's just a question of finding the right one!
   3 2011-01-15 00:07:50 Cusipzzz has joined
   4 2011-01-15 00:14:04 devon_hillard_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
   5 2011-01-15 00:14:14 devon_hillard has joined
   6 2011-01-15 00:15:31 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
   7 2011-01-15 00:16:04 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
   8 2011-01-15 00:18:37 da2ce7 has joined
   9 2011-01-15 00:19:01 altamic has joined
  10 2011-01-15 00:19:04 <da2ce7> hey slush, I'm getting heaps of Invalid or Stale.
  11 2011-01-15 00:19:38 <davout> da2ce7: momchil miner?
  12 2011-01-15 00:19:44 <davout> o'clckd?
  13 2011-01-15 00:19:46 <da2ce7> yep
  14 2011-01-15 00:19:53 <da2ce7> m0's miner
  15 2011-01-15 00:20:02 <davout> downclock a bit
  16 2011-01-15 00:20:05 <davout> upgrade miner
  17 2011-01-15 00:20:26 <davout> had that on one of my GPUs
  18 2011-01-15 00:20:36 <davout> downclocking fixed it
  19 2011-01-15 00:20:49 <davout> upping the voltage should do the trick too
  20 2011-01-15 00:20:54 <da2ce7> using the latest miner... has been stable at this clock for weeks
  21 2011-01-15 00:21:03 <da2ce7> only 78C
  22 2011-01-15 00:21:46 <ArtForz> only?
  23 2011-01-15 00:21:57 <da2ce7> yeah, well my room is like 30C
  24 2011-01-15 00:22:09 <davout> thats like the temperature they reach when i watch porn
  25 2011-01-15 00:22:58 <da2ce7> ok, now have down clocked to stock...
  26 2011-01-15 00:23:01 <ArtForz> thats about the temp of my hottest 5970
  27 2011-01-15 00:23:17 <da2ce7> was at 750, now 725
  28 2011-01-15 00:23:20 <ArtForz> well, okay, a bunch of my 5770s are running at 83-85°C, but I dont really care about those
  29 2011-01-15 00:23:24 <appamatto> ;bc,calc
  30 2011-01-15 00:24:09 <davout> mine are like 83C, problem officer ?
  31 2011-01-15 00:24:15 <slush> da2ce7: Now I don't see any rejected share from your miner
  32 2011-01-15 00:24:26 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  33 2011-01-15 00:24:33 <ArtForz> dunno, I kinda dont like my 5970s running > 80°C
  34 2011-01-15 00:24:55 <ArtForz> probably because at those core temps the VRMs are well north of 100°C
  35 2011-01-15 00:25:01 <davout> hmm
  36 2011-01-15 00:25:29 <ArtForz> well, okayy, according to the mfgs specs they should be fine at up to 120°C long term
  37 2011-01-15 00:25:52 <midnightmagic> ?! your 5970s are running at 30C?
  38 2011-01-15 00:26:05 <ArtForz> ?
  39 2011-01-15 00:26:07 <sipa> ?
  40 2011-01-15 00:26:20 <ArtForz> *blank stare*
  41 2011-01-15 00:26:34 <da2ce7> hmm, werid... I'm getting arround 10% invalid.
  42 2011-01-15 00:27:03 <ArtForz> most of em are ~70-74°C core
  43 2011-01-15 00:27:18 <da2ce7> (trying furmark)
  44 2011-01-15 00:28:00 <ArtForz> except for a one weird one where the cores differ in temp by > 10°C, I suspect that one has really badly applied thermal paste
  45 2011-01-15 00:28:25 <ArtForz> VRM temps on it are fine though
  46 2011-01-15 00:29:10 <midnightmagic> ah, you were responding to an earlier comment. in my irc screen here, he says, "my room is like 30C" and then you said, "that's about the temp of my 5970s"
  47 2011-01-15 00:29:29 <midnightmagic> my confusion -> resolved.
  48 2011-01-15 00:29:30 <sipa> lol
  49 2011-01-15 00:29:33 <da2ce7> lol
  50 2011-01-15 00:29:41 <ArtForz> nope, not running chilled water :P
  51 2011-01-15 00:29:47 <da2ce7> (silly Aus summer)
  52 2011-01-15 00:30:00 <ArtForz> with a chilled water setup 30°C core should be doable
  53 2011-01-15 00:30:17 <sipa> on antarctica?
  54 2011-01-15 00:30:20 <ArtForz> but fighting condensation is a PITA
  55 2011-01-15 00:30:24 <ArtForz> errr. no
  56 2011-01-15 00:30:39 <slush> ArtForz: mfgs specs? URL?
  57 2011-01-15 00:30:39 <ArtForz> it's basically indirect phase-change cooling
  58 2011-01-15 00:30:41 <da2ce7> hmm... Antartica miners...
  59 2011-01-15 00:31:04 <da2ce7> well furmark seems stable.
  60 2011-01-15 00:31:11 <ArtForz> = you have a AC like unit cooling a water circuit
  61 2011-01-15 00:31:20 <sipa> ok
  62 2011-01-15 00:31:26 <sipa> a refrigerator basically
  63 2011-01-15 00:31:33 <sipa> that cools the water?
  64 2011-01-15 00:31:35 <ArtForz> kinda
  65 2011-01-15 00:31:37 <ArtForz> yep
  66 2011-01-15 00:31:48 <da2ce7> you need to have a aircon room that has virtualy 0% humidity
  67 2011-01-15 00:31:52 <ArtForz> nope
  68 2011-01-15 00:32:01 <ArtForz> hooray for conformal coating
  69 2011-01-15 00:32:52 <ArtForz> you just insulate the water circuit as good as you can, apply conformal coating to components close to the waterblocks, make sure condensation from the waterblocks wont drip on anything important
  70 2011-01-15 00:33:08 <da2ce7> hmm, sounds hard...
  71 2011-01-15 00:33:18 <ArtForz> direct phase-change is harder
  72 2011-01-15 00:33:29 <da2ce7> why don't you just place the waterblocks on the vapor chamber?
  73 2011-01-15 00:33:41 <ArtForz> whats the point?
  74 2011-01-15 00:33:56 alystair has joined
  75 2011-01-15 00:33:59 <da2ce7> cools the ram and the vddc aslo
  76 2011-01-15 00:34:01 <ArtForz> the vapor chamber is needed because you need a huge fin area for air cooling
  77 2011-01-15 00:34:11 <ArtForz> look at a modern full cover waterblock
  78 2011-01-15 00:34:18 <ArtForz> it also cools ram, VRMs, ...
  79 2011-01-15 00:35:01 <ArtForz> pretty much just one big water channel in a copper plate with a bunch of ribs right where the GPU cores are
  80 2011-01-15 00:35:07 * da2ce7 was dreaming of 100GH/s chips last night...
  81 2011-01-15 00:35:20 <ArtForz> that actually wouldnt be totally impossible
  82 2011-01-15 00:35:53 <ArtForz> you'd need a few M$ (no, not microsofts...) to build it
  83 2011-01-15 00:36:12 <da2ce7> i was working out if I could con any of my v.rich. firends into building some of them
  84 2011-01-15 00:36:27 <ArtForz> something on the process and size of a modern GPU would probably be able to get at least within an order of magnitude of that
  85 2011-01-15 00:37:14 <da2ce7> hmm... 10M$ that isn't sooo hard to get... just need a good return on investment.
  86 2011-01-15 00:37:42 <ArtForz> a GF110 has something like 3 billion transistors, a full bitcoinhash engine needs about 6 million
  87 2011-01-15 00:37:43 <da2ce7> would make bitcoin a hell of alot more secure if you sold 10,000 of them
  88 2011-01-15 00:38:07 <ArtForz> = you could fit like 500 of them on a chip
  89 2011-01-15 00:38:09 <sipa> maybe within a few months, if growing trends continue, there are people actually wanting to join an investment effort for something like that
  90 2011-01-15 00:38:42 <da2ce7> that would make the hash rate 10000 times faster than what we have atm... even goverments couldn't attack it then
  91 2011-01-15 00:38:51 <midnightmagic> that would suck. whoever is in charge of it then controls the currency and it moves out of the realm of average-person participation.
  92 2011-01-15 00:38:58 <ArtForz> they're kinda bad for latency, but even at 200MHz you'd have 100Gh/s
  93 2011-01-15 00:39:01 Tritonio has joined
  94 2011-01-15 00:39:28 <midnightmagic> trust would erode and the currency would be compromised.
  95 2011-01-15 00:39:33 <ArtForz> it'd be a hellofa big, expensive and hot chip though
  96 2011-01-15 00:39:44 <ArtForz> better make more smaller ones
  97 2011-01-15 00:39:50 <sipa> midnightmagic: if many people's money is necessary for the effort, many people would get access to it too
  98 2011-01-15 00:39:52 <da2ce7> well, if you sold them to heaps of ppl.
  99 2011-01-15 00:39:57 <da2ce7> made a pci-e card.
 100 2011-01-15 00:40:09 <da2ce7> then you would be securing the network
 101 2011-01-15 00:40:11 <ArtForz> crypto engines have the tendency to run a lot hotter per area than more "normal" things
 102 2011-01-15 00:40:26 <ArtForz> because they have a lot more transistors switching per cycle
 103 2011-01-15 00:40:37 <midnightmagic> sipa: it would be a centralised cooperative effort and they would no longer be competing interests.
 104 2011-01-15 00:40:43 <sipa> agree
 105 2011-01-15 00:40:50 <midnightmagic> there we go. what da2ce7 said. :)
 106 2011-01-15 00:40:51 <sipa> which is not a good thing
 107 2011-01-15 00:41:19 <sipa> but an investment will be needed, and those investing will want to see profit from it
 108 2011-01-15 00:41:33 <ArtForz> I suspect somebody *is* going to do it, but probably not in the near future
 109 2011-01-15 00:41:38 <sipa> indeed
 110 2011-01-15 00:41:40 <midnightmagic> i agree.
 111 2011-01-15 00:41:41 <ArtForz> and probably not at 40nm
 112 2011-01-15 00:41:53 <sipa> there's probably some steps in between
 113 2011-01-15 00:41:59 <sipa> with lower efficience but lower investments
 114 2011-01-15 00:42:04 <da2ce7> well we only need to pull arround 10M in investment... that ain't that hard to do.
 115 2011-01-15 00:42:11 <ArtForz> current high-end processes are just way too fucking expensive up-front :/
 116 2011-01-15 00:42:12 <sipa> only 40M BTC
 117 2011-01-15 00:42:22 <sipa> oh wait
 118 2011-01-15 00:42:30 <ArtForz> lol
 119 2011-01-15 00:42:30 <sipa> 25M BTC
 120 2011-01-15 00:42:36 <sipa> if only that existed!
 121 2011-01-15 00:43:02 <ArtForz> yeah, I doubt anyone is willing to invest more than a few 100k$ in bitcoin currently
 122 2011-01-15 00:43:29 <ArtForz> *in bnitcoin mining
 123 2011-01-15 00:43:48 <da2ce7> hmm. yeah, depends. Lets see, we keep it on the back burner... I'll go talk to a few of my mates.
 124 2011-01-15 00:44:03 <da2ce7> maybe in 8months.
 125 2011-01-15 00:44:06 <sipa> it would need to become a lot more widespread and accepted before people have the necessary trust in it, i think
 126 2011-01-15 00:44:11 <ArtForz> yep
 127 2011-01-15 00:44:15 devon_hillard_ has joined
 128 2011-01-15 00:44:17 <da2ce7> we are makeing it save...
 129 2011-01-15 00:44:27 devon_hillard has quit (Disconnected by services)
 130 2011-01-15 00:44:32 <sipa> making it safe won't help the popularity
 131 2011-01-15 00:44:33 <da2ce7> this is about building trust in it...
 132 2011-01-15 00:44:58 <sipa> having it safe may be a requirement before some decide to support it
 133 2011-01-15 00:44:58 devon_hillard_ is now known as devon_hillard
 134 2011-01-15 00:45:08 <da2ce7> catch 22
 135 2011-01-15 00:45:13 <sipa> but it's not what will make them inclined to do so in the first place
 136 2011-01-15 00:45:39 <da2ce7> depends what type of invetor you get.
 137 2011-01-15 00:46:31 <da2ce7> (there is lots of people in perth with lots of money to burn*)
 138 2011-01-15 00:46:59 <da2ce7> by burn, I mean: 'make a great return of investment" ... in 2 years
 139 2011-01-15 00:47:47 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 140 2011-01-15 00:49:06 * da2ce7 thinks the easy soultion is to get 10Million+++ AUD of buying bitcoin... then those who have many bitcoin (aka. ArtForz), then we can start to pool BTC and get this happening.
 141 2011-01-15 00:49:50 <da2ce7> you don't get ivestors to directly invest in hardware... just make it proffitable for us to do it.
 142 2011-01-15 00:51:58 <ArtForz> http://semiaccurate.com/2011/01/13/asus-p8p67-ws-revolution/ <- neat
 143 2011-01-15 00:52:40 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
 144 2011-01-15 00:52:47 <ArtForz> properly placed x16 slots, kinda rare in mainboards nowadays
 145 2011-01-15 00:53:28 <ArtForz> for consucker boards putting the fucking northbridge where the first slot is supposed to be seems to be all the rage nowadays :/
 146 2011-01-15 00:56:57 <da2ce7> slush, just said two invalid or stale... xx:51
 147 2011-01-15 00:57:19 <da2ce7> is it your side or mine?
 148 2011-01-15 00:57:31 <slush> da2ce7: Yes, I see many invalid shares from you
 149 2011-01-15 00:57:37 <slush> da2ce7: but _only_ from you...
 150 2011-01-15 00:58:15 <da2ce7> hmm, this is weird... Maybe CCC has got it's nickers in a twist...
 151 2011-01-15 00:58:50 <ArtForz> windows?
 152 2011-01-15 00:59:02 <da2ce7> yep
 153 2011-01-15 00:59:04 <ArtForz> what cards are you running?
 154 2011-01-15 00:59:09 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 155 2011-01-15 00:59:19 <da2ce7> 5970
 156 2011-01-15 00:59:26 <ArtForz> well, theres your problem
 157 2011-01-15 00:59:44 <slush> ArtForz: I'm on Win too, without problem
 158 2011-01-15 00:59:51 <ArtForz> with a 5970?
 159 2011-01-15 00:59:53 <slush> yep
 160 2011-01-15 01:00:00 <ArtForz> how did you manage to disable xfire?
 161 2011-01-15 01:00:08 <slush> I do nothing for it...
 162 2011-01-15 01:00:14 <slush> Diablo was also surprised...
 163 2011-01-15 01:00:25 <da2ce7> in the past I have over 10,000 blocks without error...
 164 2011-01-15 01:00:28 <ArtForz> what stream SDK/cat driver versions?
 165 2011-01-15 01:00:37 <da2ce7> maybe my 5970 is slowly melting...
 166 2011-01-15 01:00:38 <slush> SDK 2.1
 167 2011-01-15 01:00:39 Ljrn900 has joined
 168 2011-01-15 01:00:42 <ArtForz> weird
 169 2011-01-15 01:00:50 <Ljrn900> u
 170 2011-01-15 01:01:05 <ArtForz> I couldnt get the 2nd GPU on 5970 to produce valid results under windows without adding a 2nd 5970
 171 2011-01-15 01:01:08 <midnightmagic> For what it's worth, I don't have to attach any dongles to my 5970 to get the cards recognised and computable.
 172 2011-01-15 01:01:19 <ArtForz> adding the 2nd 5970 magically allowed me to disable xfire
 173 2011-01-15 01:01:29 <ArtForz> then everything worked
 174 2011-01-15 01:01:34 <da2ce7> hmm going to reboot....
 175 2011-01-15 01:01:48 <da2ce7> slush, when did I start sending dud blocks?
 176 2011-01-15 01:02:15 <ArtForz> the many mysteries of ATI drivers
 177 2011-01-15 01:02:20 <slush> oh, I don't know
 178 2011-01-15 01:02:28 <slush> I have only unix timestamps here :)
 179 2011-01-15 01:02:36 <da2ce7> ah ok.
 180 2011-01-15 01:02:49 <da2ce7> but has it been for over 3 days?
 181 2011-01-15 01:02:57 <slush> Have no idea
 182 2011-01-15 01:03:00 <da2ce7> ok.
 183 2011-01-15 01:03:21 <da2ce7> bbs, rebooting.
 184 2011-01-15 01:03:23 da2ce7 has quit ()
 185 2011-01-15 01:06:34 Ljrn900 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 186 2011-01-15 01:07:15 <nevezen> how much improvement is there when using crossfire for games?
 187 2011-01-15 01:07:25 <nevezen> and does it scale?
 188 2011-01-15 01:08:08 mtgox has joined
 189 2011-01-15 01:09:29 <ArtForz> scaling isn't too great for 5xxx series cards
 190 2011-01-15 01:09:37 <ArtForz> a lot better for 69xxs
 191 2011-01-15 01:10:14 <ArtForz> iirc 6970 gets like +70% for 2 in xfire, +130% or so for 3
 192 2011-01-15 01:10:27 <ArtForz> which is why 6990 should be pretty fucking awesome
 193 2011-01-15 01:12:12 da2ce7 has joined
 194 2011-01-15 01:12:12 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
 195 2011-01-15 01:12:12 da2ce7 has joined
 196 2011-01-15 01:12:12 <nevezen> xfire?
 197 2011-01-15 01:12:19 <ArtForz> crossfire
 198 2011-01-15 01:14:57 <ArtForz> 6990 is supposed to be a dual-6970 card, thanks to the active pwoer limiting they probably wont have to downclock it as badly as 5970, and 69xx scales better in crossfire -> 6990 is probably going to be quite a bit faster than 5970 in 3D
 199 2011-01-15 01:15:11 <ArtForz> my guess is somewhere ~ +30%
 200 2011-01-15 01:15:28 <slush> who is bitcoinminer.com?
 201 2011-01-15 01:19:16 <da2ce7> myabe my gpu is fucked...
 202 2011-01-15 01:19:25 <da2ce7> werid as furmark runs just fune.
 203 2011-01-15 01:19:25 <ArtForz> unliekly
 204 2011-01-15 01:19:28 <da2ce7> finr.
 205 2011-01-15 01:19:40 <slush> da2ce7: try testnet...
 206 2011-01-15 01:19:43 <ArtForz> if it runs furmark, it's ok
 207 2011-01-15 01:19:44 <da2ce7> ok.
 208 2011-01-15 01:20:11 <ArtForz> my guess is your drivers magically decided to enable xfire and your GPU#2 is producing nonsense
 209 2011-01-15 01:21:15 <ArtForz> xelister had to fight with fglrx on linux for ages until it finally decided to stop reenabling crossfire for no apparent reason
 210 2011-01-15 01:21:16 <da2ce7> hmm. dam ATI.
 211 2011-01-15 01:21:49 <ArtForz> did you do anything before it started this?
 212 2011-01-15 01:21:58 <da2ce7> I haven't been home.
 213 2011-01-15 01:22:03 <ArtForz> weird as hell
 214 2011-01-15 01:22:15 <ArtForz> usually it needs *something* to trigger
 215 2011-01-15 01:23:04 <ArtForz> (re)installing driver, changing driver settings, moving card to a diff slot, ... all are good candidates for some reason
 216 2011-01-15 01:23:09 <ArtForz> hrrrm
 217 2011-01-15 01:23:29 <nevezen> solar flares
 218 2011-01-15 01:23:33 <ArtForz> wodner what tools one can use on windows to display crossfire status
 219 2011-01-15 01:23:37 <da2ce7> This is the first time back in a week, that is why I wanted slush to tell me when it started... :(  hmm.
 220 2011-01-15 01:23:47 <ArtForz> on linux you have aticonfig
 221 2011-01-15 01:24:24 <midnightmagic> $1,800 a month for electricity for "bitcoin's biggest miner"?
 222 2011-01-15 01:24:51 <da2ce7> how hard are the testnet blocks?
 223 2011-01-15 01:25:11 <ArtForz> sounds about right for me on utility power
 224 2011-01-15 01:25:20 <midnightmagic> HAHAHA testnet difficulty is up to 93..
 225 2011-01-15 01:25:52 <brocktice> midnightmagic: yeah yesterday I was on and it was like 27
 226 2011-01-15 01:26:06 <brocktice> I may have contributed to that
 227 2011-01-15 01:26:12 <ArtForz> it should quadruple in another 62 blocks
 228 2011-01-15 01:26:44 <ArtForz> errr... 59
 229 2011-01-15 01:26:53 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 134920634
 230 2011-01-15 01:26:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 134920634 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 8 minutes and 39 seconds
 231 2011-01-15 01:26:58 mtgox has quit ()
 232 2011-01-15 01:27:00 <ArtForz> no, 58
 233 2011-01-15 01:27:03 <da2ce7> 8 min...
 234 2011-01-15 01:27:04 <da2ce7> :(
 235 2011-01-15 01:27:05 <brocktice> is that the pool?
 236 2011-01-15 01:27:15 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: jesus man, how the hell?! 1.3kW at the plug for each machine, times 5, is 6.5kW. Hours in month, ~ 720, is 4680 kWh, and here that would only be about $400. How the hell is it $1800?!
 237 2011-01-15 01:27:46 <ArtForz> thats only 20 5970s
 238 2011-01-15 01:28:04 <ArtForz> I have 24 5970s, 5 5770s, a 6870 and a 6970 mining
 239 2011-01-15 01:28:15 <brocktice> ArtForz: Oh, how's the 6970 perform?
 240 2011-01-15 01:28:25 <ArtForz> exactly as predicted
 241 2011-01-15 01:28:28 <ArtForz> == 5870
 242 2011-01-15 01:28:38 <ArtForz> total power draw is 8780W
 243 2011-01-15 01:28:44 <brocktice> ArtForz: You really are going to end up like those guys on that ATI commercial
 244 2011-01-15 01:28:52 <ArtForz> and utility power is $0.3/kWh around here
 245 2011-01-15 01:29:04 <brocktice> JHC, what's that 40A?
 246 2011-01-15 01:29:14 <brocktice> not sure of PF
 247 2011-01-15 01:29:32 <ArtForz> nah
 248 2011-01-15 01:29:47 <ArtForz> evenly distributed over 3 phases of 230/400V
 249 2011-01-15 01:29:53 <brocktice> hahahaha
 250 2011-01-15 01:29:57 <brocktice> you have 3-phase power in your house?
 251 2011-01-15 01:30:02 <ArtForz> yup
 252 2011-01-15 01:30:11 <brocktice> brilliant
 253 2011-01-15 01:30:24 <brocktice> are you using PDUs?
 254 2011-01-15 01:30:30 <ArtForz> my generator is 15kW electric, utility service is 3*63A
 255 2011-01-15 01:30:46 <midnightmagic> 8.8kW * 720 = 6336 kWh. 135 kWh * 0.06 ~= $8.10 + 6201 * 0.086 ~= 533.29 + $8.10 = $541.. CAD.
 256 2011-01-15 01:31:19 <ArtForz> nah, just pulled 3*16A from a subpanel to some reinforced power strips
 257 2011-01-15 01:31:20 <midnightmagic> ah, right. you said that once. $0.3 USD for power.
 258 2011-01-15 01:31:48 <midnightmagic> christ..  expensive power there.
 259 2011-01-15 01:32:04 <ArtForz> stupid govt policy
 260 2011-01-15 01:32:10 <midnightmagic> that is BRUTAL man.. wow.
 261 2011-01-15 01:32:15 <da2ce7> so that is like 4% in power...
 262 2011-01-15 01:32:35 <ArtForz> normal power price would be about 2/3 of that, the rest is fucking eco tax
 263 2011-01-15 01:32:53 <midnightmagic> call it by its right name, now: econazi tax.
 264 2011-01-15 01:33:01 <brocktice> Well, there are dumber ways to enforce such things
 265 2011-01-15 01:33:01 <Cusipzzz> wow, thought I had it bad at .18
 266 2011-01-15 01:33:06 <brocktice> CAFE standards, for example.
 267 2011-01-15 01:33:17 <ArtForz> which is in turn used to pay like $0.4/kWh for solar/wind/... generators
 268 2011-01-15 01:33:51 <da2ce7> wish me luck... updating drivers.
 269 2011-01-15 01:33:55 <brocktice> "Let's invent fuel economy standards to make people be more energy efficient, but leave a gaping fucking loophole for the most giant cars."
 270 2011-01-15 01:34:00 <da2ce7> (this windows needs a format badly)
 271 2011-01-15 01:34:10 <brocktice> OR: raise fuel taxes (the sane answer)
 272 2011-01-15 01:34:23 <midnightmagic> good luck man!
 273 2011-01-15 01:34:24 <ArtForz> thats what our govt did
 274 2011-01-15 01:34:31 <brocktice> Well, it's more sane than CAFE.
 275 2011-01-15 01:34:44 <brocktice> If your goal is to reduce fuel consumption.
 276 2011-01-15 01:35:11 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 277 2011-01-15 01:35:17 <ArtForz> result, we now pay about $7.50/gal for gas
 278 2011-01-15 01:35:32 <brocktice> About 2x what it is here
 279 2011-01-15 01:35:44 <brocktice> Though in seattle I'll bet it's near $4/gal
 280 2011-01-15 01:35:53 <brocktice> we're at $3.09
 281 2011-01-15 01:35:55 <ArtForz> and again, about 1/3 of that is eco tax
 282 2011-01-15 01:36:11 <ArtForz> oh and we have the same crazy tax laws for cars
 283 2011-01-15 01:36:43 <ArtForz> you pay like $2k/yr tax for a 20 yr old sedan w/o catalytic converter or anything
 284 2011-01-15 01:37:05 <da2ce7> fuck that, there should be less tax
 285 2011-01-15 01:37:14 <ArtForz> my 20 yr old diesel? $140/yr, it's a light truck!
 286 2011-01-15 01:37:50 <brocktice> oi
 287 2011-01-15 01:38:21 <ArtForz> and you better not drive a white car behind me unless you like black spots ;)
 288 2011-01-15 01:39:18 <ArtForz> injection pump is shot, #3 cylinder gets too much fuel and runs sooty as hell
 289 2011-01-15 01:39:57 <brocktice> I'd hate to be stuck behind you on the Autobahn.
 290 2011-01-15 01:40:02 <midnightmagic> let's see.. I think we're about $0.85 -> $0.95/L here.
 291 2011-01-15 01:40:28 <ArtForz> you probably wouldnt, flat out ~65mph
 292 2011-01-15 01:40:52 <da2ce7> dont have enougth time to re-install windows....fuck.
 293 2011-01-15 01:41:05 <ArtForz> my 2nd car? a '87 diesel vanagon ;)
 294 2011-01-15 01:41:33 <brocktice> "My other car has even worse fuel efficiency"
 295 2011-01-15 01:41:37 <ArtForz> 50hp
 296 2011-01-15 01:41:44 <ArtForz> 60 mph downhill. with strong tailwind...
 297 2011-01-15 01:42:26 <ArtForz> but having 1.2 metric tons cargo capacity and a trailer hitch is kinda useful
 298 2011-01-15 01:42:52 <ArtForz> though fully loaded you kinda get stuck in front of trucks ...
 299 2011-01-15 01:44:09 <ArtForz> but really fun to drive
 300 2011-01-15 01:44:25 <da2ce7> found issue...  m0's and TOR = SUCK
 301 2011-01-15 01:44:42 <ArtForz> ahh
 302 2011-01-15 01:45:33 <da2ce7> slush, in what way was my data jumbled... Tor, in theroy should have been fine.
 303 2011-01-15 01:46:27 <slush> da2ce7: You are connecting to pool with tor?
 304 2011-01-15 01:46:29 <necrodearia> Hey, maybe in 2-3 months we can push for a slashdot article for satoshi nakamoto ^_^ http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=11/01/15/016241
 305 2011-01-15 01:46:39 <da2ce7> slush, was. not anymore.
 306 2011-01-15 01:46:39 <ArtForz> aaaand
 307 2011-01-15 01:46:40 <ArtForz> testnet diff changed again
 308 2011-01-15 01:48:01 <da2ce7> we need to make a 'easy testnet' where the dificulty always stays on 1
 309 2011-01-15 01:48:22 <tcatm> 1 is too easy
 310 2011-01-15 01:48:34 <da2ce7> hmm then 32 like slush miner
 311 2011-01-15 01:48:42 <tcatm> but you can always start your own "testnet"
 312 2011-01-15 01:48:55 <tcatm> -noirc -connect=127.0.0.1
 313 2011-01-15 01:49:15 <da2ce7> but don't you need to make your own genisis block?
 314 2011-01-15 01:49:18 <slush> da2ce7: well, I don't log whole responses, I have same error for all exceptions around parsing hash from getwork
 315 2011-01-15 01:49:51 <da2ce7> so if I was submiting blocks from all sorts of differnt IP addresses, it should have been fine?
 316 2011-01-15 01:49:52 <slush> da2ce7: Current difficulty on pool is 1; but I'm working on to make dynamic
 317 2011-01-15 01:50:13 <tcatm> da2ce7: such a testnet is only good for checking miners
 318 2011-01-15 01:50:38 <da2ce7> tcatm, isn't that a valid reasion to have a test-net.
 319 2011-01-15 01:50:53 <slush> *to make difficulty dynamic per worker
 320 2011-01-15 01:51:38 <tcatm> I think testnet is more useful to test actual bitcoin services and transactions.
 321 2011-01-15 01:52:32 <da2ce7> yeah, I agree, the current testnet is great for that... but we could have a -miningtest option on bitcoin.
 322 2011-01-15 01:52:35 <tcatm> Someone should make a dummy getwork daemon for testing miners :)
 323 2011-01-15 01:52:49 <ArtForz> yep
 324 2011-01-15 01:53:05 <ArtForz> send a mix of known-nothing and known-result works and see if you get the correct results
 325 2011-01-15 01:53:32 <tcatm> Like replay the blockchain but change nonce = 0 and see if you get the same blocks
 326 2011-01-15 01:53:55 <ArtForz> yep, pretty much
 327 2011-01-15 01:54:00 <da2ce7> well, boys and maybe girls. I'm gotta go. Be back in 2 weeks or so. :) keep up the good work.
 328 2011-01-15 01:54:02 * tcatm adds it to todo
 329 2011-01-15 01:54:10 <ArtForz> thats pretty much what my gpu-test program does
 330 2011-01-15 01:54:16 <ArtForz> well, without the getwork server part
 331 2011-01-15 01:54:40 <da2ce7> if you need to contact me, pm me on the forum.
 332 2011-01-15 01:54:43 <ArtForz> pretty much just a miner getting fed known-good headers from the block chain
 333 2011-01-15 01:55:10 <nevezen> artforz, what's the hash/s your cluster puts out?
 334 2011-01-15 01:55:23 <ArtForz> 16.5Ghps
 335 2011-01-15 01:55:39 <da2ce7> I have access to arround 600 BTC, so I should be able to fuffill any bounty'ies that are outstanding.
 336 2011-01-15 01:55:57 <nevezen> wow, so you're likely to generate a coin within an hour?
 337 2011-01-15 01:56:12 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 16500000
 338 2011-01-15 01:56:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 44 seconds
 339 2011-01-15 01:56:28 da2ce7 has quit ()
 340 2011-01-15 01:57:00 <nevezen> or is that 50 coins?
 341 2011-01-15 01:57:12 <ArtForz> 50 coins
 342 2011-01-15 01:57:32 <ArtForz> so a bit over 1kBTC/day
 343 2011-01-15 01:58:21 <nevezen> wow, so it really can pay for you electricity bills.. :/
 344 2011-01-15 01:58:24 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 16500000 18550
 345 2011-01-15 01:58:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16500000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 18550, is 1 hour, 20 minutes, and 28 seconds
 346 2011-01-15 01:58:54 <nevezen> that's w/o a pool right?
 347 2011-01-15 01:58:58 <ArtForz> ... about 900btc/day at upcoming diff
 348 2011-01-15 01:58:59 <ArtForz> yep
 349 2011-01-15 02:01:02 <Cusipzzz> you are printing money at ~.40 per =)
 350 2011-01-15 02:01:59 <brocktice> ;;bc,calcd 2300000 18550
 351 2011-01-15 02:02:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 18550, is 9 hours, 37 minutes, and 19 seconds
 352 2011-01-15 02:02:07 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
 353 2011-01-15 02:02:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102734 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 81 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 hours, 16 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 18467.61218417
 354 2011-01-15 02:02:20 <brocktice> ;;bc,calc 2300000
 355 2011-01-15 02:02:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 8 hours, 27 minutes, and 32 seconds
 356 2011-01-15 02:02:30 <tcatm> This account hub idea from brucewagner is strange.
 357 2011-01-15 02:02:42 AAA_awright_ has joined
 358 2011-01-15 02:02:49 <brocktice> tcatm: It's because of the inherent delay in bitcoin transactions
 359 2011-01-15 02:03:14 <tcatm> well it doesn't solve that problem
 360 2011-01-15 02:03:31 <brocktice> oh
 361 2011-01-15 02:03:34 <brocktice> I thought that was the point
 362 2011-01-15 02:03:39 <brocktice> but I haven't read that thread in depth
 363 2011-01-15 02:03:41 <tcatm> it just tries to add a little trust to 0/unconfirmed
 364 2011-01-15 02:03:45 <ArtForz> looks like we're headed for < +14% diff increase this time
 365 2011-01-15 02:04:17 <Cusipzzz> i'd rather wait the <10 min then have these allegedly trusted AH nodes or whatever
 366 2011-01-15 02:04:17 <brocktice> ArtForz: That's a big drop, yes?
 367 2011-01-15 02:04:26 <nevezen> ;;bc,calcd 22000 18550
 368 2011-01-15 02:04:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 22000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 18550, is 5 weeks, 6 days, 21 hours, 57 minutes, and 18 seconds
 369 2011-01-15 02:04:27 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 370 2011-01-15 02:04:34 <tcatm> at the cost of tying every TX to well-known (at least to the account hubs) accounts
 371 2011-01-15 02:04:51 <brocktice> nevezen: still using the GT 8800 or whatever?
 372 2011-01-15 02:04:53 <ArtForz> we used to have +30 - +50% per diff period
 373 2011-01-15 02:05:01 <nevezen> yes
 374 2011-01-15 02:05:08 <brocktice> ArtForz: like you said, if the current price holds, it'll probably come back up
 375 2011-01-15 02:05:14 <ArtForz> yep
 376 2011-01-15 02:05:19 <brocktice> people are discussing building 20-5970 farms on the forums
 377 2011-01-15 02:05:19 <slush> I expect difficulty will rise in next round, because of rising BTC price...
 378 2011-01-15 02:05:28 <nevezen> probably doesn't make a dent on coin generation :(
 379 2011-01-15 02:05:31 <brocktice> Although I expect they will encounter... problems.
 380 2011-01-15 02:05:49 <ArtForz> well, it's certainly doable
 381 2011-01-15 02:05:49 <brocktice> #1 finding 5970s at a reasonable price
 382 2011-01-15 02:06:00 <brocktice> Sapphires are listed again on newegg but out of stick
 383 2011-01-15 02:06:00 <ArtForz> thats easy
 384 2011-01-15 02:06:02 <brocktice> *stock
 385 2011-01-15 02:06:18 <ArtForz> etailer here has 32 in stock @ 415EUR
 386 2011-01-15 02:06:23 <nevezen> I'm just amazed on how people are dedicated to mining
 387 2011-01-15 02:06:31 <brocktice> nevezen: *dedicated*?
 388 2011-01-15 02:06:48 <nevezen> like buying 5970 in bulk and setting them up specifically for mining
 389 2011-01-15 02:06:52 <brocktice> When you buy a $550 video card you're dedicated to something for sure
 390 2011-01-15 02:06:57 <ArtForz> it's called investing
 391 2011-01-15 02:07:01 <brocktice> normally I think that's "gaming"
 392 2011-01-15 02:07:04 <brocktice> ArtForz: yup
 393 2011-01-15 02:07:27 <nevezen> right, investing. so when you get a good return, you can afford for the "next best" gpu card :)
 394 2011-01-15 02:07:38 <brocktice> yeah I 'reinvested' my mining profits in another 5970
 395 2011-01-15 02:07:45 <brocktice> like Art has done on a much larger scale
 396 2011-01-15 02:07:57 <ArtForz> yep, early mover advantage
 397 2011-01-15 02:08:02 <brocktice> mmhmm
 398 2011-01-15 02:08:03 <nevezen> early adopter :)
 399 2011-01-15 02:08:13 <brocktice> I am unfortunately limited by my power
 400 2011-01-15 02:08:25 <nevezen> when did the first gpu miner become publically available?
 401 2011-01-15 02:08:29 <brocktice> but like I said before, if the price trend keeps up I'll pay the $2k to have 200A service installed.
 402 2011-01-15 02:08:42 <brocktice> good selling point when we move in ~10mo too
 403 2011-01-15 02:09:10 <ArtForz> my first OpenCL card went up mid july
 404 2011-01-15 02:09:27 <ArtForz> m0s miner was released late september I think
 405 2011-01-15 02:09:30 <brocktice> goddamn, you must have made a killing
 406 2011-01-15 02:09:54 <brocktice> that reminds me, I need to donate to m0 again
 407 2011-01-15 02:09:57 <ArtForz> not really
 408 2011-01-15 02:10:14 <ArtForz> I only invested about $500 back then
 409 2011-01-15 02:10:24 <ArtForz> used the returns to buy more HW
 410 2011-01-15 02:10:43 <ArtForz> thats how I ended up with 24 paid-off 5970s
 411 2011-01-15 02:11:03 <ArtForz> ... and a lot of other hardware
 412 2011-01-15 02:11:17 <brocktice> heh
 413 2011-01-15 02:11:19 <brocktice> and heat all winter
 414 2011-01-15 02:11:32 <ArtForz> well, I would get that anyways
 415 2011-01-15 02:11:48 <brocktice> But surely it is paying for itself this time
 416 2011-01-15 02:11:53 <brocktice> 'Free' heat all winter
 417 2011-01-15 02:11:55 <ArtForz> yep
 418 2011-01-15 02:11:58 <ArtForz> doesnt matter if the immersion heaters or a bunch of GPUs consume enough to power to get enough heat output from my generator
 419 2011-01-15 02:12:10 <ArtForz> it already well paid for itself
 420 2011-01-15 02:12:33 <brocktice> Brilliant system, bitcoin
 421 2011-01-15 02:12:35 <brocktice> in terms of incentives
 422 2011-01-15 02:13:06 <ArtForz> current profits are going towards paying back the $50k for my ASIC run
 423 2011-01-15 02:13:38 <midnightmagic> do you use exchangezone too? seems like everyone i talk to does.
 424 2011-01-15 02:13:41 <brocktice> What will it cost for a set-up of those?
 425 2011-01-15 02:13:48 <brocktice> If/when you sell them
 426 2011-01-15 02:13:48 <nevezen> how long until 50 btc becomes 25?
 427 2011-01-15 02:13:58 <brocktice> nevezen: 2.5 years or so I think?
 428 2011-01-15 02:14:02 <midnightmagic> nevezen: that's a ways off.
 429 2011-01-15 02:14:14 <ArtForz> don't know yet, still havnt finalized a manufacturable board design
 430 2011-01-15 02:14:21 <nevezen> so you all are living the dream
 431 2011-01-15 02:14:46 <nevezen> I wonder if it'll be worth it when you can only mine 25 per block..
 432 2011-01-15 02:14:50 <midnightmagic> nevezen: like a lovecraftian hero!
 433 2011-01-15 02:15:03 <ArtForz> my current design is geared towards easy debugging and being able to solder with "hobby" equipment
 434 2011-01-15 02:15:06 <midnightmagic> nevezen: prices will probably rise a chunk.
 435 2011-01-15 02:15:11 <nevezen> and all this mining underneath real transactions :)
 436 2011-01-15 02:15:11 <ArtForz> aka toaster oven reflow
 437 2011-01-15 02:15:22 <brocktice> nevezen: Prices are already more than enough for that
 438 2011-01-15 02:15:30 <brocktice> hardware amortization will take longer though
 439 2011-01-15 02:16:27 <ArtForz> why yes, I am reflowing $200 ASICs in a $40 toaster oven controlled by a $2 micro
 440 2011-01-15 02:16:30 <midnightmagic> brocktice: that's a pretty unfortunate part. when mining gets to the point where normal people can't participate, it'll consolidate into high-$ investment groups and we'll all have to trust that they won't take advantage of everyone else.
 441 2011-01-15 02:16:54 <brocktice> midnightmagic: It's already there
 442 2011-01-15 02:16:56 <brocktice> more or less
 443 2011-01-15 02:17:10 <nevezen> I know it's still a long way off but what happens after coins can no longer be mined?
 444 2011-01-15 02:17:21 <nevezen> or been mined to exaustion..
 445 2011-01-15 02:17:32 <ArtForz> transaction fees will take over (hopefully)
 446 2011-01-15 02:17:37 <midnightmagic> brocktice: I'm not an investment group and after about 18 days of mining, my cards are just about 20% paid off.
 447 2011-01-15 02:17:45 <brocktice> midnightmagic: wow, that's pretty good
 448 2011-01-15 02:17:52 <brocktice> given diff these days
 449 2011-01-15 02:18:04 <ArtForz> all you need is cheap power really
 450 2011-01-15 02:18:07 <midnightmagic> well..  I kind of cheated on initial investment costs, I got some cheap 5970 pre-christmas.
 451 2011-01-15 02:18:29 <nevezen> will they create a new genesis block, just for mining when the times comes?
 452 2011-01-15 02:18:32 <midnightmagic> thanks to art's open-ness. :)
 453 2011-01-15 02:18:33 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
 454 2011-01-15 02:18:53 <ArtForz> btw, I'm still waiting for the first bitcoin grow-op raid :P
 455 2011-01-15 02:19:13 <brocktice> ArtForz: I figured
 456 2011-01-15 02:19:25 <brocktice> ArtForz: Although apparently they're using grid analysis for that.
 457 2011-01-15 02:19:34 <brocktice> And you're not really on the grid, and you're not stealing power
 458 2011-01-15 02:19:39 <midnightmagic> btw, have I thanked you yet for how open you are with information about mining, Art? If not, thank you. If it weren't for your unassailable logic I wouldn't have picked up any cards.
 459 2011-01-15 02:19:40 <ArtForz> yeah
 460 2011-01-15 02:19:45 <brocktice> Apparently this is a big problem in die Niederlaende
 461 2011-01-15 02:20:02 <brocktice> Yeah, it impresses me how helpful you are, Art.
 462 2011-01-15 02:20:03 <ArtForz> but I guess others are running similar clusters
 463 2011-01-15 02:21:20 <ArtForz> well, it's what I like to do
 464 2011-01-15 02:21:57 <midnightmagic> are you secretly satoshi?
 465 2011-01-15 02:22:01 <ArtForz> nope
 466 2011-01-15 02:22:12 <brocktice> Would you answer yes to that question if you were?
 467 2011-01-15 02:22:23 <ArtForz> probably no
 468 2011-01-15 02:22:28 <midnightmagic> i think he would, and then put a little smilie face on it.
 469 2011-01-15 02:22:32 <brocktice> right, so it's pointless to ask
 470 2011-01-15 02:22:42 <midnightmagic> and then we could all stand up and say, "No, I'm Satoshi!"
 471 2011-01-15 02:22:51 <ArtForz> life of brian?
 472 2011-01-15 02:22:55 <brocktice> I'm the real slim shady
 473 2011-01-15 02:23:17 <midnightmagic> not pointless. there's always comedy!
 474 2011-01-15 02:23:20 <midnightmagic> =]
 475 2011-01-15 02:23:48 <ArtForz> I also like getting people to learn things
 476 2011-01-15 02:24:08 <brocktice> ArtForz: I kind of feel like you need a FAQ
 477 2011-01-15 02:24:22 BitterTea has joined
 478 2011-01-15 02:24:23 <brocktice> because I've seen you answer the same questions (including ones I asked when I started) over and over
 479 2011-01-15 02:24:51 <ArtForz> *shrug* I really don't mind as long as they're not totally stupid
 480 2011-01-15 02:25:26 <ArtForz> benefits of manning student helldesk @ uni
 481 2011-01-15 02:25:37 <brocktice> heh
 482 2011-01-15 02:25:45 <brocktice> Yeah I worked at the business school computer lab in undergrad
 483 2011-01-15 02:25:52 <brocktice> I had to make signs telling people where the stapler was
 484 2011-01-15 02:25:53 <brocktice> no joke
 485 2011-01-15 02:25:59 <brocktice> I used a screenshot from Office Space
 486 2011-01-15 02:25:59 <ArtForz> yep
 487 2011-01-15 02:26:20 <ArtForz> imo a very valuable experience
 488 2011-01-15 02:26:38 <ArtForz> most people aren't stupid, just clueless
 489 2011-01-15 02:26:44 <brocktice> It was not enough to prepare me for a toddler, though.
 490 2011-01-15 02:27:15 <ArtForz> hehe, true
 491 2011-01-15 02:28:10 <ArtForz> though some kids are way worse than others
 492 2011-01-15 02:28:32 <brocktice> our oldest is good, but when she gets overtired, whoa man
 493 2011-01-15 02:30:22 <ArtForz> yep, that can be... annoying
 494 2011-01-15 02:31:55 <ArtForz> my oldest is 10
 495 2011-01-15 02:32:10 <brocktice> youngest?
 496 2011-01-15 02:32:19 <ArtForz> 5
 497 2011-01-15 02:32:32 <brocktice> ah, well, it should be getting better for a few more years then right?
 498 2011-01-15 02:32:38 <ArtForz> yep
 499 2011-01-15 02:32:40 <brocktice> mine are 2 and 1mo
 500 2011-01-15 02:32:44 <BitterTea> Does anyone know if there's a spec for the wallet format somewhere?
 501 2011-01-15 02:32:49 <BitterTea> I have been unable to find one.
 502 2011-01-15 02:32:52 <brocktice> BitterTea: it's a berkely db isn't it?
 503 2011-01-15 02:33:24 <BitterTea> brocktice: I dunno, is it? :)
 504 2011-01-15 02:33:31 <brocktice> AFAIK
 505 2011-01-15 02:33:35 <tcatm> it is
 506 2011-01-15 02:33:46 <nevezen> what's the link to the public log of #bitcoin-dev?
 507 2011-01-15 02:33:55 <tcatm> BitterTea: look for bitcointools
 508 2011-01-15 02:34:11 <BitterTea> nevezen: http://bit.ly/cdmwSu
 509 2011-01-15 02:34:36 <ArtForz> currently my oldest is causing some problems at school
 510 2011-01-15 02:34:43 <BitterTea> tcatm: Excellent, thanks
 511 2011-01-15 02:35:12 <brocktice> ArtForz: Oh?
 512 2011-01-15 02:35:17 <ArtForz> yeah
 513 2011-01-15 02:35:29 <brocktice> How so?
 514 2011-01-15 02:35:36 <ArtForz> she's not *having* problems at all, just bored and finding new ways to annoy everyone
 515 2011-01-15 02:35:41 <brocktice> Ah well
 516 2011-01-15 02:35:49 <brocktice> Being your daughter I don't doubt she'd be bored.
 517 2011-01-15 02:36:01 <brocktice> We are considering unschooling.
 518 2011-01-15 02:36:10 <brocktice> and/or homeschooling
 519 2011-01-15 02:36:27 <ArtForz> yeah, I'm considering having her skip a grade at least, because this is fucking ridiculous
 520 2011-01-15 02:36:34 <nevezen> thx
 521 2011-01-15 02:36:57 <ArtForz> she reminds me a lot of myself really
 522 2011-01-15 02:37:51 <ArtForz> and I kinda dont want her to go through the same crap I did
 523 2011-01-15 02:38:13 * brocktice nods
 524 2011-01-15 02:40:25 <xelister> [02:17] <ArtForz> xelister had to fight with fglrx on linux for ages until it finally decided to stop reenabling crossfire for no apparent reason
 525 2011-01-15 02:40:26 <xelister> [02:17] <da2ce7> hmm. dam ATI.
 526 2011-01-15 02:41:16 <xelister> I set a bid to hire local kids to toiled paper'd CEO of Ati driver devision :P
 527 2011-01-15 02:41:22 * xelister 100 btc in
 528 2011-01-15 02:42:58 <Kiba> ?
 529 2011-01-15 02:53:38 <xelister> ArtForz: public school system is anyway designed for idiots mostly
 530 2011-01-15 02:53:42 <xelister> especially in usa
 531 2011-01-15 02:53:55 <xelister> and you are from where btw
 532 2011-01-15 02:56:02 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: 95% of teens these days listen to the same crappy pop songs over and over. if your one of the 5% left who still listen to real music, thunb this up, then copy and paste it to t least 5 video's. DONT LET THE SPIRIT OF ROCK AND ROLL DIE!)
 533 2011-01-15 02:57:41 <Kiba> ArtForz: how about Khan Academy?
 534 2011-01-15 02:58:43 <Kiba> hackers having childreN?
 535 2011-01-15 02:58:48 <Kiba> who could have thunk?
 536 2011-01-15 02:59:36 asdf30 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 537 2011-01-15 03:03:22 <brocktice> today is a good day
 538 2011-01-15 03:03:25 <brocktice> 4 blocks so far
 539 2011-01-15 03:03:34 <brocktice> I am 'due' only 2-3
 540 2011-01-15 03:04:00 <Cusipzzz> mbn =)
 541 2011-01-15 03:11:32 noagendamarket has joined
 542 2011-01-15 03:16:22 <brocktice> woohoo, wife found an old masterlock, couldn't remember the combo.
 543 2011-01-15 03:16:23 <brocktice> Cracked it.
 544 2011-01-15 03:22:43 asdf30 has joined
 545 2011-01-15 03:25:49 AAA_awright_ has joined
 546 2011-01-15 03:26:41 AAA_awright has quit (Disconnected by services)
 547 2011-01-15 03:26:43 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
 548 2011-01-15 03:33:52 <xelister> ;;bc,calcd 530000 400
 549 2011-01-15 03:33:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 530000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 400, is 54 minutes and 1 second
 550 2011-01-15 03:41:34 <Kiba> dad threaten to sit in my room
 551 2011-01-15 03:41:45 <Kiba> dad realized that he is not as patient as his son
 552 2011-01-15 03:41:50 <Kiba> dad goes away. I win.
 553 2011-01-15 03:42:42 <xelister> what did you do
 554 2011-01-15 03:42:50 <Kiba> not take care of my pimple
 555 2011-01-15 03:42:57 <Kiba> last time, it was not cleaning my room
 556 2011-01-15 03:49:56 <xelister> ;;bc,calcd 1000 400
 557 2011-01-15 03:49:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 400, is 2 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 13 minutes, and 6 seconds
 558 2011-01-15 04:04:05 joe_1 has joined
 559 2011-01-15 04:07:38 AtlasLGo has joined
 560 2011-01-15 04:08:13 <AtlasLGo> Alright, are you guys willing to give relationship advice?
 561 2011-01-15 04:09:07 <AtlasLGo> Actually, nevermind.
 562 2011-01-15 04:09:14 AtlasLGo has quit (Client Quit)
 563 2011-01-15 04:14:37 <luke-jr> lol
 564 2011-01-15 04:22:44 <tcatm> fscking SSL. Why does it have to keep the connection open?
 565 2011-01-15 04:25:31 Hal9000 has joined
 566 2011-01-15 04:27:00 Hal9000 has quit (Quit: Hal9000)
 567 2011-01-15 04:28:53 Hal9001 has joined
 568 2011-01-15 04:29:17 Hal9001 has quit (Client Quit)
 569 2011-01-15 04:33:51 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 570 2011-01-15 04:35:02 joe_1 has joined
 571 2011-01-15 04:50:32 <xelister> tcatm: what connection?
 572 2011-01-15 04:52:11 <tcatm> android web browser -> SSL webserver
 573 2011-01-15 04:54:03 <tcatm> it even keeps it open after sending "HTTP/1.0" and "Connection: close" and shutting down the socket
 574 2011-01-15 04:55:13 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 575 2011-01-15 04:56:09 ArtForz has joined
 576 2011-01-15 04:57:52 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 577 2011-01-15 05:05:59 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 578 2011-01-15 05:19:31 <nanotube> have there been any more votes on i2p relaying in this chan?
 579 2011-01-15 05:28:36 skeledrew1 has joined
 580 2011-01-15 05:29:04 archaIRONCHEF has joined
 581 2011-01-15 05:30:29 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 582 2011-01-15 05:32:19 <noagendamarket> Keefe are you around?
 583 2011-01-15 05:36:33 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
 584 2011-01-15 05:37:00 ArtForz has joined
 585 2011-01-15 05:39:54 archaIRONCHEF has left ()
 586 2011-01-15 05:48:05 <OneFixt> anyone have a ton of extra testnet btc lying around?
 587 2011-01-15 05:48:14 <Kiba> man, I hope the ads market is set up soon
 588 2011-01-15 05:52:00 <Kiba> it seem that everything in the past are all embrassment
 589 2011-01-15 05:53:55 AAA_awright_ has joined
 590 2011-01-15 05:55:46 <[Noodles]> OneFixt: not a ton, but a few, how many do you need?
 591 2011-01-15 05:55:58 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 592 2011-01-15 06:01:17 <Keefe> noagendamarket: just got back online. see pm. unexpected visitor kept me afk
 593 2011-01-15 06:01:21 <OneFixt> [Noodles]: whatever you can spare would be fine, thanks: mk86rc7C4cTgjed2UQhpyK11RGHXEjubnw
 594 2011-01-15 06:02:07 <Keefe> OneFixt: looking to trade?
 595 2011-01-15 06:02:26 <OneFixt> Keefe: yep, pmed you
 596 2011-01-15 06:07:25 <newsham> spare some change, man?
 597 2011-01-15 06:07:42 <newsham> ePanHandlR
 598 2011-01-15 06:09:28 <nanotube> 1GiVEmeSoMEco1nZplZ
 599 2011-01-15 06:09:30 <nanotube> heh
 600 2011-01-15 06:09:39 acous has joined
 601 2011-01-15 06:15:19 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
 602 2011-01-15 06:16:28 <Kiba>  wee
 603 2011-01-15 06:16:30 <Kiba> 263.71
 604 2011-01-15 06:16:33 <Kiba> btc
 605 2011-01-15 06:16:47 <Kiba> yay
 606 2011-01-15 06:16:51 <Kiba> I have 105 dollars in saving
 607 2011-01-15 06:16:57 <lfm> wtg
 608 2011-01-15 06:21:13 <luke-jr> I have 10 TBC for 1000 testnet BTC? :P
 609 2011-01-15 06:21:19 <luke-jr> let's give testnet some value?
 610 2011-01-15 06:23:12 <nanotube> luke-jr: what's a tbc in terms of btc, again?
 611 2011-01-15 06:23:37 <jgarzik> TBC == nanocoin?
 612 2011-01-15 06:23:42 <Kiba> tonal
 613 2011-01-15 06:23:43 <Kiba> bitcoin
 614 2011-01-15 06:23:50 <Kiba> luke-jr's weird invention
 615 2011-01-15 06:23:57 <nanotube> tonal is not his invention
 616 2011-01-15 06:24:01 <nanotube> just his adoption :)
 617 2011-01-15 06:24:17 <nanotube> there's a wp page about the tonal number system
 618 2011-01-15 06:24:34 <nanotube> ah iirc he made a bc wiki page about it
 619 2011-01-15 06:24:37 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki tonal
 620 2011-01-15 06:24:37 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Schema | Jan 12, 2011 ... SI/decimal is the inferior competition/enemy of the superior Tonal system. That is, to be avoided. (Chinese is a standard language ...
 621 2011-01-15 06:24:42 <nanotube> mmm not that. heh.
 622 2011-01-15 06:25:31 <nanotube> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin
 623 2011-01-15 06:25:33 <nanotube> aha
 624 2011-01-15 06:25:48 <nanotube> 0.00065536  btc is 1 tbc
 625 2011-01-15 06:26:13 <lfm> oh how handy!
 626 2011-01-15 06:26:22 <nanotube> so that means he wants to buy 1000 tnbtc for 0.006x realbtc.
 627 2011-01-15 06:26:33 <nanotube> which is curretnly impossible given the min tx in stock client. heh.
 628 2011-01-15 06:26:39 <nanotube> lfm: yea, not handy at all. :)
 629 2011-01-15 06:26:51 <xelister> shit, we broken testnet
 630 2011-01-15 06:27:10 <xelister> it's all ArtForz fault ;)
 631 2011-01-15 06:27:16 * xelister makes a run for ti
 632 2011-01-15 06:27:17 xelister has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 633 2011-01-15 06:27:19 <nanotube> why, tn still works just fine.
 634 2011-01-15 06:27:21 <nanotube> heh
 635 2011-01-15 06:28:22 xelister has joined
 636 2011-01-15 06:28:52 <nanotube> heh you couldn't have gotten very far in 65 seconds.
 637 2011-01-15 06:29:04 <nanotube> xelister: --^
 638 2011-01-15 06:29:52 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 639 2011-01-15 06:30:52 <xelister> no really we broke testnet lol... it will take months with 1 gpu to fix it to be usable from cpu
 640 2011-01-15 06:31:25 <xelister> the rules should be change for faster lowering of diff,  and alos lower it not just each 2000 blocks but also each 48 h
 641 2011-01-15 06:31:42 <nanotube> don't think that's going to happen.
 642 2011-01-15 06:31:52 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 643 2011-01-15 06:32:24 xelister has joined
 644 2011-01-15 06:32:24 xelister has quit (Changing host)
 645 2011-01-15 06:32:24 xelister has joined
 646 2011-01-15 06:32:38 <lfm> xelister and this is bad how?
 647 2011-01-15 06:33:21 <[Noodles]> what's the current diff on testnet?
 648 2011-01-15 06:33:29 ApertureScience has joined
 649 2011-01-15 06:34:31 <nanotube> 186 mn-equiv diff, [Noodles]
 650 2011-01-15 06:34:41 <nanotube> check out blockexplorer.com/testnet
 651 2011-01-15 06:34:57 <Kiba> everyone feel an europhia over the last few days!
 652 2011-01-15 06:35:41 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 653 2011-01-15 06:37:43 AAA_awright has joined
 654 2011-01-15 06:37:46 <lfm> i dont know what a europhia is let alone what it should feel like
 655 2011-01-15 06:38:20 <nanotube> probably feels a little like dyslexia
 656 2011-01-15 06:38:28 <Kiba> euphoria
 657 2011-01-15 06:38:38 <systemfault> Like being "high"
 658 2011-01-15 06:38:56 <Kiba> I get no interest rate on my saving! And yet it grow in value!
 659 2011-01-15 06:38:59 <nanotube> ;;google fight euphoria europhia
 660 2011-01-15 06:39:00 <gribble> euphoria: 137000, europhia: 1900
 661 2011-01-15 06:39:10 <nanotube> heh. looks like europhia does exist.
 662 2011-01-15 06:39:33 <systemfault> I'm tired :/
 663 2011-01-15 06:39:53 <Kiba> http://mises.org/daily/4952
 664 2011-01-15 06:41:01 <Kiba> bitcoin will save Europe from itself!
 665 2011-01-15 06:41:04 <Kiba> and the USA!
 666 2011-01-15 06:41:16 <xelister> god, please don't save the usa
 667 2011-01-15 06:41:24 <xelister> less money for wars -> less wars by them
 668 2011-01-15 06:41:39 * OneFixt slaps xelister around a bit with a large trout
 669 2011-01-15 06:41:42 <Kiba> but we're enslaved to those Chinese!
 670 2011-01-15 06:42:05 <Kiba> and Chinese might start warring once it got too confident
 671 2011-01-15 06:42:52 <xelister> OneFixt: state reason why usa still is in iraq, afgh etc, that is logicall, obviously morally correct, and obviously is the reality since begining untill now -> 25 btc
 672 2011-01-15 06:43:31 molecular has joined
 673 2011-01-15 06:43:31 <systemfault> There's none.
 674 2011-01-15 06:43:37 <xelister> womds?  Weapons of mass destruction :> ?
 675 2011-01-15 06:43:53 <OneFixt> xelister: I will state simply that the people of the USA, like the people of any country in the world, have nothing to do with it.
 676 2011-01-15 06:43:59 <systemfault> The only wmd there is the US army itself.
 677 2011-01-15 06:44:18 <xelister> OneFixt: well I dont wish you all to die a horrible car accident
 678 2011-01-15 06:44:29 <xelister> (that is only for Ati software devision and flash devels :P)
 679 2011-01-15 06:44:34 <Kiba> it's about surrounding Iran, xelister
 680 2011-01-15 06:44:39 <Kiba> can't you see? We got them cornered
 681 2011-01-15 06:44:50 <xelister> but the weaker and less important the USA, the less wars by USA (oversea wars are expensive)
 682 2011-01-15 06:44:53 <Kiba> now all we need to do is launch an invasion of Iran, and the master plan will be complete
 683 2011-01-15 06:45:05 <OneFixt> xelister: I simply wish that the USA be saved - and by USA I mean the real country where people are free, not the nonsense that's going on currently.
 684 2011-01-15 06:45:09 <systemfault> Here comes the conspiracies..
 685 2011-01-15 06:45:16 <Kiba> systemfault: it's not a conspiracy
 686 2011-01-15 06:45:19 <Kiba> look the map
 687 2011-01-15 06:45:20 <xelister> USA should fall, to like, 1st world by poor country, and then stop messing with entire world perhaps
 688 2011-01-15 06:45:22 <systemfault> With arabs.. jews.. americans..
 689 2011-01-15 06:45:25 <xelister> *but
 690 2011-01-15 06:45:50 <xelister> OneFixt: that is nice, but as voters you are pathetic. the democracy is not working
 691 2011-01-15 06:45:51 <OneFixt> xelister: Messing will not stop if the USA falls, the money will simply flow to the next strong country, or to the smaller countries to get them to fight each other.
 692 2011-01-15 06:46:00 <OneFixt> xelister: There is nobody to vote for =)
 693 2011-01-15 06:46:06 <Kiba> liek China
 694 2011-01-15 06:46:07 <xelister> lolbama didnt shut down any modern concentration camps, or the invasion
 695 2011-01-15 06:46:09 <systemfault> OneFixt's right on that one.
 696 2011-01-15 06:46:11 <Kiba> China will start getting all agressive
 697 2011-01-15 06:46:30 <xelister> you even can't stop own uneducated police wannabies from groping your children and wifes on airports in the majety of law
 698 2011-01-15 06:46:31 <Kiba> they will beat their chest
 699 2011-01-15 06:46:40 <Kiba> but their government is too corrupt to sustain capitalism
 700 2011-01-15 06:47:08 <xelister> usa is a joke on liberty and democracy
 701 2011-01-15 06:47:16 <Kiba> they have built million of homes that are not inhabitated
 702 2011-01-15 06:47:23 <Kiba> democracy is a joke on liberty
 703 2011-01-15 06:47:28 <OneFixt> xelister: What we have here is not true capitalism, and not true democracy or a true republic.  We call it the "failure of capitalism" the "failure of free markets" etc., but that's just wordplay.  The closer the US moves to socialism, the more it fails.
 704 2011-01-15 06:47:31 <Kiba> it demolish Liberty
 705 2011-01-15 06:47:39 <lfm> should we start a new channel #bitcoin-dev-really
 706 2011-01-15 06:47:58 <OneFixt> xelister: What I mean to say is that the USA seems to already have fallen.  I wish it could get back up.
 707 2011-01-15 06:47:58 <Kiba> the republic/democracy is responsbile for events in our country, OneFixt
 708 2011-01-15 06:48:03 <Kiba> you're just blaming the big power dude
 709 2011-01-15 06:48:13 <Kiba> but it's really the fault of voters
 710 2011-01-15 06:48:20 <Kiba> those voters are idiots
 711 2011-01-15 06:48:23 <xelister> OneFixt: get friend and run for the office
 712 2011-01-15 06:48:23 <systemfault> lfm: Or another called #bitcoin-dev-politics
 713 2011-01-15 06:48:35 <OneFixt> xelister: Kennedy already did. And he won.
 714 2011-01-15 06:48:39 <xelister> OneFixt: make freesite on #freenet , organise friends in the democracy based process for change
 715 2011-01-15 06:48:48 RazielZ has joined
 716 2011-01-15 06:48:51 <Kiba> I don't want no damn democracy
 717 2011-01-15 06:48:58 <Kiba> democracy is tryanny of the majority!
 718 2011-01-15 06:49:00 <xelister> not change like that lolbama.. btw why this nigger got nobel price?
 719 2011-01-15 06:49:08 <xelister> but really a change
 720 2011-01-15 06:49:10 <systemfault> ...
 721 2011-01-15 06:49:16 <Kiba> xelister: because European are idiots too
 722 2011-01-15 06:49:19 <systemfault> What the fuck with the useless racism.
 723 2011-01-15 06:49:39 <xelister> systemfault: it is ok, I am black, I am allowed to say this
 724 2011-01-15 06:49:40 <OneFixt> s/nigger/puppet
 725 2011-01-15 06:49:50 <systemfault> ..
 726 2011-01-15 06:49:53 <xelister> :)
 727 2011-01-15 06:50:21 <xelister> that reminds me
 728 2011-01-15 06:50:37 <nolan_d> My gods, this channel is like a bad Coast to Coast episode more often than not, and I've only idled here for a few days.
 729 2011-01-15 06:50:51 <Kiba> SpaceX
 730 2011-01-15 06:51:27 <Kiba> BioMike is close to winning 1400 BTC
 731 2011-01-15 06:51:29 <lfm> im black on the inside
 732 2011-01-15 06:51:32 <xelister> it seems, if the news reporter would say "USA army raped and muredered a 14-yo nigger girl, again!"
 733 2011-01-15 06:51:35 <xelister> then everyone would be like... OH my god that is shocking!!! This is an outrage!!! They said the N word on TV. What is up with that?
 734 2011-01-15 06:51:39 <lfm> too much smoking
 735 2011-01-15 06:52:06 <Kiba> it's called the FCC, I think
 736 2011-01-15 06:52:11 <OneFixt> xelister: Anyway, I only wanted to remind everyone that USA is still the best (most certainly one of the best at least) places to LIVE IN, and that stands for something.
 737 2011-01-15 06:52:27 <xelister> OneFixt: lolololololol
 738 2011-01-15 06:52:28 <systemfault> Pardon?
 739 2011-01-15 06:52:30 <lfm> no it isnt
 740 2011-01-15 06:52:34 <systemfault> No it isn't.
 741 2011-01-15 06:52:43 <Kiba> is NOrway the best?
 742 2011-01-15 06:52:44 <systemfault> Even canadians are better.
 743 2011-01-15 06:52:44 <OneFixt> lfm: systemfault: where do you live?
 744 2011-01-15 06:52:47 <xelister> OneFixt: I would not live in USA, even if you paid me 100.000 USD
 745 2011-01-15 06:53:03 <Kiba> USA is fine
 746 2011-01-15 06:53:05 <systemfault> OneFixt: Quebec, Canada.
 747 2011-01-15 06:53:09 <Kiba> just don't fuck a 14 years old girl
 748 2011-01-15 06:53:21 <OneFixt> systemfault: of course Canada is just fine as well
 749 2011-01-15 06:53:39 <xelister> Kiba: usa is shit to live in, because you do not have any liberty
 750 2011-01-15 06:53:43 <lfm> UAE
 751 2011-01-15 06:53:44 <xelister> list of things I can do where I live
 752 2011-01-15 06:53:52 <xelister> - fuck sexu 18 yo
 753 2011-01-15 06:53:55 <xelister> - and 17
 754 2011-01-15 06:53:58 <xelister> - and 16
 755 2011-01-15 06:54:03 <systemfault> Wow..
 756 2011-01-15 06:54:06 <Kiba> xelister: clearly you watch too much American news
 757 2011-01-15 06:54:13 <xelister> - and 13 if someone would take a trip to vatican LOL (no thanks, Im not into this but just saying)
 758 2011-01-15 06:54:15 <systemfault> xelister: Where are you, tell us
 759 2011-01-15 06:54:29 <xelister> - drink beer at 16 (legally its 18 but noone gives a flying fuck)
 760 2011-01-15 06:54:37 <OneFixt> xelister: Things that a 13 year old girl can do in the USA : NOT GET FUCKED
 761 2011-01-15 06:54:46 <xelister> systemfault: age of consent is like 15-16 entire Europe, and 13 in the Vatican.
 762 2011-01-15 06:54:58 <xelister> OneFixt: are you fucking stupid?
 763 2011-01-15 06:55:09 <systemfault> Priest love little girls, it's known.
 764 2011-01-15 06:55:15 <systemfault> xelister: But where do you live6
 765 2011-01-15 06:55:16 <systemfault> ?
 766 2011-01-15 06:55:22 <lfm> ya what if she wants to
 767 2011-01-15 06:55:26 <systemfault> Where is it so good to live?
 768 2011-01-15 06:55:31 <Kiba> sometime xelister is just dumbfucked
 769 2011-01-15 06:55:34 <xelister> OneFixt: are you confusing 2 people tant to have sex with each other,  with a rape? what the f.?
 770 2011-01-15 06:55:41 <systemfault> So I can move to his country.
 771 2011-01-15 06:55:42 <OneFixt> xelister: how old are you?
 772 2011-01-15 06:55:54 <OneFixt> xelister: I simply took it as a statement that you were making about yourself and a 13 year old.
 773 2011-01-15 06:55:59 <Kiba> you guys need to learn the /ignore function
 774 2011-01-15 06:56:05 <xelister> systemfault: poland, but I do NOT adivce it overall. high corruption, crime, and poor health system
 775 2011-01-15 06:56:27 <Kiba> now
 776 2011-01-15 06:56:30 <Kiba> let earn some bitcoin!
 777 2011-01-15 06:56:37 <Kiba> what article should I write about bitcoin?
 778 2011-01-15 06:56:48 <xelister> OneFixt: in every civiliazed place on the world, everyone is free to "not have sex", lack of this ability is called a rape, and is illegall in every sane or even less sane country
 779 2011-01-15 06:57:24 <lfm> kiba write about 13 year old girls, with pictures
 780 2011-01-15 06:57:27 <OneFixt> xelister: We have a few with forced marriages and things of that nature though
 781 2011-01-15 06:57:36 <systemfault> OneFixt: Where?
 782 2011-01-15 06:57:45 <xelister> OneFixt: so you writting "Things that a 13 year old girl can do in the USA : NOT GET FUCKED", suggesting that she would lack suck abitlity in say Eu, is plain stupid... what did you ment to say here?
 783 2011-01-15 06:57:57 <Kiba> lfm: ah, come on, help me think of a bitcoin article
 784 2011-01-15 06:58:24 <xelister> Kiba: "Xeliser and ArtFortz messes up the Testnet. Expected repair time: ~24 months" :)
 785 2011-01-15 06:58:29 <lfm> kiba do you know what has happened to testnet?
 786 2011-01-15 06:58:37 <xelister> lfm: yeah I know
 787 2011-01-15 06:58:43 <lfm> write about it
 788 2011-01-15 06:58:44 <Kiba> no
 789 2011-01-15 06:59:00 <OneFixt> xelister: When you made your statement, it sounded a bit like you were about to force yourself on some girl.  In general, I hope you will at least agree that young girls are very impressionable and, like all children, vulnerable. That's all I'm saying.  Concent is good, but we must keep in mind that sometimes people are not mature enough.
 790 2011-01-15 06:59:00 <Kiba> but I would like to sell another article
 791 2011-01-15 06:59:14 <xelister> OneFixt: so in the USA such forced marriages do happen? Then this is very bad thing. And it does NOT (legally, nor even in practice) happen here in EU
 792 2011-01-15 06:59:30 <OneFixt> xelister: no, not in the USA, i meant other countries
 793 2011-01-15 06:59:32 * xelister bitchslaps OneFixt for reading my words this way
 794 2011-01-15 06:59:53 <OneFixt> not the EU either
 795 2011-01-15 06:59:55 <xelister> OneFixt: in the usa, lookup texas ranch sect leader that forced 10-14 yo into 'marriage' and so on
 796 2011-01-15 06:59:58 <lfm> art Forz did an experiment. He tokk a portion of his machines and ran em on testnet for a while. Now some people are saying he broke testnet. If its so easy to break, is the main bitcoin net safe?
 797 2011-01-15 07:00:06 <OneFixt> xelister: every country has criminals
 798 2011-01-15 07:00:19 <systemfault> xelister: OneFixt is right on that....
 799 2011-01-15 07:00:30 <xelister> OneFixt: in usa it was I suppose sort of legal or something. But ok, this case - I do not say this is 'usa fault' overall
 800 2011-01-15 07:00:48 <xelister> so ok lets recap
 801 2011-01-15 07:00:52 <OneFixt> xelister: But then isn't that more "Freedom" for the guy who did it?
 802 2011-01-15 07:01:01 <OneFixt> xelister: I only want to state one thing, one single thing.
 803 2011-01-15 07:01:11 <OneFixt> xelister: Don't do the "down with the USA" thing.
 804 2011-01-15 07:01:36 <OneFixt> xelister: I came here from a little country known as the USSR, and believe me, it's better here.
 805 2011-01-15 07:01:41 <xelister> EU: free to have say at reasonable ages IF BOTH PARTNERS WANT TO, without calling both partners criminals.  Overall usually less crazy high stentences for stupid shit like smoking a bit of weed or like warezing few songs.  And USA people are less free in this areas
 806 2011-01-15 07:02:27 <OneFixt> xelister: Yes the USA has some stupid laws and currently incompetent government - so we should save it by fixing those things, not destroy it.
 807 2011-01-15 07:03:04 <xelister> OneFixt: the good freedom is when people can do things (but things to which everyone affected agreess freely, informed consent). Also known as - one's freedom [should] end where another's beginds
 808 2011-01-15 07:03:06 <xelister> *begins
 809 2011-01-15 07:03:21 <OneFixt> naturally
 810 2011-01-15 07:03:30 <xelister> yeah everyone basically agrees on that
 811 2011-01-15 07:03:33 <xelister> 95% of people probably
 812 2011-01-15 07:03:42 <xelister> and yet, the law says and countries do, otherwise
 813 2011-01-15 07:03:44 <xelister> democracy -> fail
 814 2011-01-15 07:04:03 <xelister> and USA fails the most for example with STARTING GENOCIDE/WARS
 815 2011-01-15 07:04:03 <OneFixt> the USA was supposed to be republic anyway
 816 2011-01-15 07:04:19 <OneFixt> democracy is just socialism in disguise
 817 2011-01-15 07:04:25 <xelister> * the most of developed countries (ofc. not counting things like constant wars in affrica, cambodia, etc)
 818 2011-01-15 07:04:51 <lfm> whats republic mean then
 819 2011-01-15 07:05:20 <OneFixt> for example, if I remember correctly, the president is not picked by a popular vote
 820 2011-01-15 07:05:29 <xelister> overall in USA your taxes found raping of children,  and you are more likelly to get insane high penalty for tiny small 'bad' things...  - therefore USA is not free place to live in!
 821 2011-01-15 07:05:40 <OneFixt> The president is supposed to be a non-partican person, chosen on his integrity only, by a special committie.
 822 2011-01-15 07:06:11 <OneFixt> xelister: Yet I feel more free living here than in Russia or Poland.
 823 2011-01-15 07:06:16 <OneFixt> more safe
 824 2011-01-15 07:06:18 <lfm> the electoral college
 825 2011-01-15 07:06:22 <xelister> while I understand there are everywhere criminals, rapists, murderers, etc - we must remember the entire war should not happen, and for this, clearly the usa gov/voters/people are to blame
 826 2011-01-15 07:06:23 * Kiba decides on an article
 827 2011-01-15 07:06:28 <Kiba> Bitcoin's Cypherpunk
 828 2011-01-15 07:07:05 <systemfault> xelister: Americains don't care about foreign policies...
 829 2011-01-15 07:07:10 <systemfault> That's what happens.
 830 2011-01-15 07:07:14 <systemfault> *Americans
 831 2011-01-15 07:07:22 <OneFixt> xelister: Did Germans? Did Russians?
 832 2011-01-15 07:07:26 <xelister> OneFixt: do you care about how many children your taxes killed?
 833 2011-01-15 07:07:30 <OneFixt> systemfault ^
 834 2011-01-15 07:07:41 <OneFixt> xelister: of course
 835 2011-01-15 07:07:51 <lfm> overpopulation is a problem, too many children
 836 2011-01-15 07:08:01 <xelister> OneFixt: Germans do not start any wars. Hell, even RUSSIANS start less wars nowdays! (that georgia thing was like 2 weeks, not 10 years)
 837 2011-01-15 07:08:12 <systemfault> Most people have to work, to take care of their own family... what the US is doing on the planet, they couldn't care less
 838 2011-01-15 07:08:23 <OneFixt> xelister: I mean history. Germany was in quite a war, and Russia killed too many of its own people.
 839 2011-01-15 07:08:28 <Kiba> lfm: it's not a problem
 840 2011-01-15 07:08:33 <xelister> (well, ok, kalkauz and area... ok, so USA and Russia are close ;)
 841 2011-01-15 07:08:47 <xelister> OneFixt: history is history, Im more concern with today and future
 842 2011-01-15 07:09:02 <lfm> xelister well some people think germany did start a war or two actually
 843 2011-01-15 07:09:08 <xelister> and PL didnt start any war in like 100+ years
 844 2011-01-15 07:09:20 <OneFixt> xelister: You should study history in depth, no the kind of history that is taught in school, and you will see that history is now, and the forces of control do not change.
 845 2011-01-15 07:09:38 <xelister> if our politicans would not sold us out to USA invasion, then we would not be involved in any invasion (in important amount) for really long time
 846 2011-01-15 07:09:43 <OneFixt> xelister: PL is not strong enough to start a war, so that's not saying much.
 847 2011-01-15 07:09:56 <xelister> OneFixt: then why USA begged us to help in iraq so much
 848 2011-01-15 07:10:04 <xelister> anyway, that is a good thing
 849 2011-01-15 07:10:10 <xelister> who nowdays starts wars?
 850 2011-01-15 07:10:24 <xelister> 1) USA.   2) ... ? russia, perhaps ??    3).. korea?  others?
 851 2011-01-15 07:10:43 <OneFixt> xelister: Who else is armed and funded enough to start wars?
 852 2011-01-15 07:10:54 <xelister> that is your explanation?
 853 2011-01-15 07:10:57 <OneFixt> yes
 854 2011-01-15 07:10:59 <xelister> lol
 855 2011-01-15 07:11:08 <OneFixt> power corrupts
 856 2011-01-15 07:11:13 <xelister> so?
 857 2011-01-15 07:11:16 <xelister> so this is still evil
 858 2011-01-15 07:11:23 <OneFixt> so it's not the fault of the USA, it is the natural tendency of power
 859 2011-01-15 07:11:34 <OneFixt> and that is what should be analyzed, instead of blindly bashing the USA
 860 2011-01-15 07:11:43 <xelister> So the self-proclaimed as blessed by god country of Liberty - are the number one reason nowdays wars are started, awesome
 861 2011-01-15 07:12:05 <lfm> somaliaÉ
 862 2011-01-15 07:12:09 <xelister> lfm: us?
 863 2011-01-15 07:12:10 <OneFixt> International money funds wars no matter what country starts them.
 864 2011-01-15 07:12:21 <xelister> OneFixt: ok, I will take your logic then
 865 2011-01-15 07:12:29 * xelister kills OneFixt's parents
 866 2011-01-15 07:12:41 <xelister> oh sorry, I just had this new gun I bought, you know power corrupts
 867 2011-01-15 07:12:45 <xelister> it is not my fault. So, no grudge?
 868 2011-01-15 07:13:01 <xelister> your logic scares me, OneFixt
 869 2011-01-15 07:13:14 <OneFixt> xelister: you don't actually know who's responsible for what the USA does
 870 2011-01-15 07:13:16 <lfm> équit brb
 871 2011-01-15 07:13:42 <xelister> OneFixt: who is? aliens? USA government?
 872 2011-01-15 07:13:42 lfm has quit (Quit: brb)
 873 2011-01-15 07:13:58 <OneFixt> the USA has fallen victim to a corrupt form of control, and this can happen to any country
 874 2011-01-15 07:14:17 <xelister> oh poor you
 875 2011-01-15 07:14:32 lfm has joined
 876 2011-01-15 07:14:33 <xelister> the Germans where not bad, they where victim of the nazist party.
 877 2011-01-15 07:14:34 <OneFixt> poor us, poor you, poor many of the people of the world
 878 2011-01-15 07:14:53 <xelister> "I was just following orders" lol
 879 2011-01-15 07:15:24 <xelister> OneFixt: would be funny if one day russian army murders your family, and then they are .. sorry man, we are just following orders.. and you would be like, fine, yea
 880 2011-01-15 07:15:43 <OneFixt> xelister: I told you, I already came from Russia, that one day is in the past.
 881 2011-01-15 07:16:06 <OneFixt> My immediate family of course wasn't murdered, but we all got shit from there.
 882 2011-01-15 07:16:19 <xelister> and you do not blame ru Gov for that?
 883 2011-01-15 07:16:27 <OneFixt> I do not blame "Russia"
 884 2011-01-15 07:16:35 <xelister> then? aliens? god?
 885 2011-01-15 07:16:40 <OneFixt> Ideology
 886 2011-01-15 07:16:50 <xelister> so no one should like, stand trial?
 887 2011-01-15 07:16:51 <OneFixt> socialist/communist ideology
 888 2011-01-15 07:17:24 <OneFixt> I care more about improving the conditions of living than about revenge
 889 2011-01-15 07:17:59 <xelister> just for you + closest friends, or also for everyone affected by your actions?
 890 2011-01-15 07:18:09 <OneFixt> whatever is in my power
 891 2011-01-15 07:18:21 <xelister> then you should became an SS officer
 892 2011-01-15 07:18:29 <xelister> job security. dental. carrier plans
 893 2011-01-15 07:18:42 <OneFixt> sorry, my family was too busy running from them
 894 2011-01-15 07:19:03 <xelister> after 1945 get life-long vacation in cuba, small countries, AND THE USA
 895 2011-01-15 07:19:17 <OneFixt> and that's not what I meant by improving conditions, I guess you misunderstood
 896 2011-01-15 07:19:29 <OneFixt> I wish to live in a healthy place
 897 2011-01-15 07:19:36 <OneFixt> Nazi Germany was not such a place
 898 2011-01-15 07:19:40 <xelister> sure it was
 899 2011-01-15 07:19:49 <OneFixt> mentally, ideologically sound
 900 2011-01-15 07:19:54 <OneFixt> not selfish
 901 2011-01-15 07:19:55 <xelister> at least untill they started loosing
 902 2011-01-15 07:20:04 <xelister> ok, so in this case, USA does not mean your definition
 903 2011-01-15 07:20:12 <OneFixt> no, not at the moment, not at the large scale
 904 2011-01-15 07:20:13 <OneFixt> BUT
 905 2011-01-15 07:20:16 <xelister> because it is commiting slow genocide in illegal invasion
 906 2011-01-15 07:20:17 <OneFixt> the USA allows me to make such a place at home
 907 2011-01-15 07:20:26 <OneFixt> some countries do not even allow that
 908 2011-01-15 07:20:55 <OneFixt> I can chat here on the internet unlike in China
 909 2011-01-15 07:21:02 <xelister> many countries are as developed, or even better, in terms of sociall security, health, job security, personal liberties, economic liberies... as USA.. or MORE. While NOT starting illegal evil wars.
 910 2011-01-15 07:21:14 <OneFixt> I can start a business and not go to jail for talking about politics, like in Russia (though it's getting a bit worse)
 911 2011-01-15 07:21:22 <xelister> perhaps you shoul read more into that, and one day move again to a better place
 912 2011-01-15 07:21:31 <lfm> is it genocide if theyre killing slower than the birth rate?
 913 2011-01-15 07:21:55 <xelister> lfm: heh. I dont know the dict deffinition, by my opinion, yes
 914 2011-01-15 07:22:06 <OneFixt> xelister: yes, I'd like to learn more about the countries of the world
 915 2011-01-15 07:22:11 <xelister> OneFixt: you can do the same in entire EU and many many countries
 916 2011-01-15 07:22:36 <xelister> also, is USA free in business
 917 2011-01-15 07:22:41 <OneFixt> xelister: in Britain, the attitute towards self-defence is atrocious
 918 2011-01-15 07:22:43 <xelister> what happened to that guys for making own value?
 919 2011-01-15 07:23:12 <xelister> OneFixt: UK suck cocks. so does FR. btw, both (want to/start) illegalize Freenet, like China, go figure
 920 2011-01-15 07:23:28 <OneFixt> what we're really seeing is a global "problem"
 921 2011-01-15 07:23:36 <OneFixt> it's not a conspiracy, or any sort of theory
 922 2011-01-15 07:23:51 <xelister> what was the guys in USA that made own value and get basically illegally arested and are for years in such situation (jail)?  Liberty gold? something?
 923 2011-01-15 07:23:54 <OneFixt> it's a global "change", corrdinated and executed
 924 2011-01-15 07:24:09 <OneFixt> coordinated*
 925 2011-01-15 07:24:19 <xelister> liberty gold?
 926 2011-01-15 07:24:23 <xelister> noone?
 927 2011-01-15 07:24:44 <OneFixt> xelister: I agree with you that the USA has problems, but I see most of those problems everywhere else in the world, and I see every place getting worse as time goes by. I'd like to see things get better.
 928 2011-01-15 07:25:57 <OneFixt> xelister: And, though you may not believe or understand this, the people in the USA are some of the kindest people in the world.  But that is not what you will see on the news or in the propaganda.
 929 2011-01-15 07:26:13 <xelister> OneFixt: as I already said, the people may be good
 930 2011-01-15 07:26:22 <xelister> but still the country can be bad
 931 2011-01-15 07:26:27 <xelister> then the people need to change country gov
 932 2011-01-15 07:26:41 <OneFixt> they're trying =)
 933 2011-01-15 07:26:42 <xelister> or at least the country needs to fall more or less to stop heaving effect on others
 934 2011-01-15 07:26:56 <OneFixt> I just know what falls lead to
 935 2011-01-15 07:27:04 <OneFixt> they lead to the rise of something new, and that new thing is usually worse
 936 2011-01-15 07:27:16 <OneFixt> a gradual transition would be better
 937 2011-01-15 07:27:26 <xelister> I dont mean like tall fall leading to lawless land, but like, strong reduction in world importance
 938 2011-01-15 07:27:27 <OneFixt> USSR's fall released a lot of weaponry into the open market
 939 2011-01-15 07:27:54 <xelister> overall, good start would be to like, I dont know... STOP ALL INVASIONS BY THE USA ?
 940 2011-01-15 07:28:00 <OneFixt> xelister: as far as I understand, that is already the global plan, so you'll see it happen unless the people of the USA can do something
 941 2011-01-15 07:28:04 <OneFixt> ie, it'll be reduced in power
 942 2011-01-15 07:28:17 <xelister> how come Nobel Price Winner is the President and Still HIS COUNTRY starts conflicts, wars, illegal invasions, and runs concetration camps?
 943 2011-01-15 07:28:18 <systemfault> You guys are still on that? :P
 944 2011-01-15 07:28:29 <xelister> perhaps the Nobel commitet should consider Hitler next year
 945 2011-01-15 07:28:33 <OneFixt> xelister: that nobel prize thing was idiotic
 946 2011-01-15 07:28:42 <OneFixt> xelister: he would've looked much better had he rejected it
 947 2011-01-15 07:29:29 <xelister> nobble commitet should take back his award, seriously.
 948 2011-01-15 07:29:40 ApertureScience has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 949 2011-01-15 07:29:52 <xelister> he can keep the 1mln and stupid statue ofcourse
 950 2011-01-15 07:30:02 <xelister> or is it a medal
 951 2011-01-15 07:31:52 <OneFixt> in any case, I will defend the people of the US as kinder than most, and those are the types of people that I can believe in, if they can get some strength and wisdom to add to that kindness
 952 2011-01-15 07:32:21 <xelister> kinder then most?
 953 2011-01-15 07:32:24 <xelister> doubt that
 954 2011-01-15 07:32:47 <xelister> but perhaps the typical people in USA can be as good on average as any others. Didnt run any stats
 955 2011-01-15 07:32:51 <OneFixt> i'm only speaking from experience
 956 2011-01-15 07:34:13 <xelister> what countries?
 957 2011-01-15 07:34:38 <xelister> I seen people in few countries very nice; although, it can be that people are nicer to foreigners there
 958 2011-01-15 07:35:49 <OneFixt> mostly the former soviet countries
 959 2011-01-15 07:36:31 <xelister> yeah. well, it is more likelly that overall RU people are LESS friendly ;)  but again, there are always many exceptions... if you had in mind ~RU police forces etc, then of course they are extreamly not kind.. ;)
 960 2011-01-15 07:38:41 <andrew12> hmm
 961 2011-01-15 07:39:13 <andrew12> are there any other mining pools? it looks like doublec had to close his
 962 2011-01-15 07:40:15 <OneFixt> xelister: in RU you get people being rude a lot, even for simple things like waiting in line
 963 2011-01-15 07:40:21 <OneFixt> the atmosphere is more tense
 964 2011-01-15 07:40:31 <OneFixt> people are often scared and mistrustful of each other
 965 2011-01-15 07:40:44 <OneFixt> they feel like they have no voice
 966 2011-01-15 07:40:45 <xelister> yea
 967 2011-01-15 07:42:50 <systemfault> People are good as seeing differences... not similarities
 968 2011-01-15 07:42:55 <systemfault> *at
 969 2011-01-15 07:43:06 <systemfault> There's fucked up people everywhere.
 970 2011-01-15 07:43:17 <systemfault> US isn't a single person
 971 2011-01-15 07:43:24 <systemfault> There's people from everywhere there.
 972 2011-01-15 07:43:29 <systemfault> Get over it.
 973 2011-01-15 07:44:03 <OneFixt> systemfault: yep
 974 2011-01-15 07:44:56 <systemfault> Too bad everytime we hear about the US.. it's either about stupid rednecks... stupid cunts like Sarah palin.. or the classical big fat mcdonaldised white american
 975 2011-01-15 07:45:08 <systemfault> US is way more than that.
 976 2011-01-15 07:45:20 <OneFixt> systemfault: Bingo. It's the propaganda doing its magic.
 977 2011-01-15 07:45:51 <OneFixt> systemfault: the thing is, it works on Americans, too.  People in the USA are saying that the USA is a horrible, violent, immoral country.
 978 2011-01-15 07:45:56 <OneFixt> of course this will lead to collapse
 979 2011-01-15 07:46:21 <systemfault> My only problem with the US is that the country is run like a business and the losers are its people.
 980 2011-01-15 07:46:23 <OneFixt> they should believe in their country more, then they could do something about it
 981 2011-01-15 07:46:43 <OneFixt> systemfault: that's pretty well stated
 982 2011-01-15 07:48:30 <OneFixt> Yet I am happy that US protesters don't loot shops or burn cars, that my neighbors aren't tense and mistrusting, and that people still have hope (not "hope" but hope)
 983 2011-01-15 07:49:07 <systemfault> Heh...
 984 2011-01-15 07:49:20 <systemfault> Just take a took at what's happening in Tunisia right now.
 985 2011-01-15 07:49:32 <systemfault> That country has been stable for over 30 years.
 986 2011-01-15 07:49:46 <systemfault> It went upside-down in a single day.
 987 2011-01-15 07:50:16 <OneFixt> of course you're right, and it can happen anywhere
 988 2011-01-15 07:50:29 <OneFixt> it can happen here in the US
 989 2011-01-15 07:50:52 <systemfault> It will happen.. when the population will be pissed enough
 990 2011-01-15 07:51:28 ApertureScience has joined
 991 2011-01-15 07:53:18 asherkin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 992 2011-01-15 07:53:27 <xelister> systemfault: hint, people outside of US do not have US for being fat or stupid. It is mostly the war thing
 993 2011-01-15 07:53:37 <xelister> other stuff is just nitpicking or silliness
 994 2011-01-15 07:53:40 asherkin has joined
 995 2011-01-15 07:53:41 soultcer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 996 2011-01-15 07:53:44 <xelister> *do not hate US for
 997 2011-01-15 07:54:17 rcorreia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 998 2011-01-15 07:54:21 rcorreia has joined
 999 2011-01-15 07:54:45 soultcer has joined
1000 2011-01-15 07:55:14 <OneFixt> xelister: they dislike them because they think they are gluttenous and stupid =)
1001 2011-01-15 07:55:53 <xelister> ok I mean, the thing that usa REALLY does wrong outside is meddling around and starting wars. How much does this differ from what hitler did?
1002 2011-01-15 07:56:43 <xelister> sure there is perhaps a scale difference, and they try to not openly kill nation X just because,  but in the end, when everage's joes home gets bombed, it is bombed and that is all that matter
1003 2011-01-15 07:57:08 <nevezen> do/will people declare their income if they're generating coins, selling them, making a profit to the irs?
1004 2011-01-15 07:57:52 <xelister> nevezen: imo taxes are stupid. Taxes based on income. Instead there should be small per-head price for being a citizen, that is all. Also x100 easier and less governers needed
1005 2011-01-15 07:58:22 <xelister> with such a tax, there are no grey areas and enless discussions what is a fradu and what is legal, what I must report and what not, etc. Also more privacy
1006 2011-01-15 07:58:30 <nevezen> yeah, but the irs are not gonna' care. They'll just see it as you still making money and not declaring. That could get you into trouble perhaps..
1007 2011-01-15 07:58:31 <OneFixt> nevezen: you should. you might want to write the IRS to ask them about it, or ask a lawyer
1008 2011-01-15 07:58:47 <xelister> nevezen: perhaps. Vote for change (hint: not lolbama probably)
1009 2011-01-15 07:59:13 <xelister> or aks IRS to suck your dick, and write to your lawyer about it ;)
1010 2011-01-15 08:02:18 <nevezen> will it turn into an egold fiasco again? probably not but who knows..
1011 2011-01-15 08:02:37 <xelister> nevezen: there is world beyound USA and USA-IRS
1012 2011-01-15 08:03:05 <nevezen> but there's international agreements between countries as well when it comes to taxes me think
1013 2011-01-15 08:03:40 <OneFixt> xelister: laws are what they are, we should do our best to abide by them when morally possible, otherwise we'd be fooling ourselves and get locked up for no reason
1014 2011-01-15 08:04:17 <OneFixt> indignation is only the illusion of changing something, it just gets you in trouble
1015 2011-01-15 08:04:51 <nevezen> make enough money and colonize space.. then you can forget about tax and other limitations
1016 2011-01-15 08:04:58 <nevezen> nevermind
1017 2011-01-15 08:05:00 <OneFixt> yep
1018 2011-01-15 08:13:09 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 530000
1019 2011-01-15 08:13:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 530000 Khps, given current difficulty of 16307.48285682 , is 1 day, 12 hours, 42 minutes, and 31 seconds
1020 2011-01-15 08:40:01 <Keefe> ;;seen noagendamarket
1021 2011-01-15 08:40:01 <gribble> noagendamarket was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 hours, 7 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <noagendamarket> Keefe are you around?
1022 2011-01-15 08:56:27 Diablo-D3 has joined
1023 2011-01-15 09:04:38 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1024 2011-01-15 09:04:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102786 | Current Difficulty: 16307.48285682 | Next Difficulty At Block: 102815 | Next Difficulty In: 29 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 hours and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 18522.88679001
1025 2011-01-15 09:04:51 <LobsterMan> ;estimate
1026 2011-01-15 09:05:06 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
1027 2011-01-15 09:05:06 <gribble> 18522.88679001
1028 2011-01-15 09:05:19 * LobsterMan slaps lfm around with a heavy metal pole
1029 2011-01-15 09:05:25 <LobsterMan> i was seeing if bitbot still worked
1030 2011-01-15 09:05:27 <LobsterMan> but i guess he isn't around
1031 2011-01-15 09:08:09 <lfm> ';seen bitbot
1032 2011-01-15 09:08:21 <lfm> ;;seen bitbot
1033 2011-01-15 09:08:21 <gribble> bitbot was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 15 hours, 5 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <bitbot> mizerydearia: Bitcoin Market: Bid(0.068) Ask(0.068) Last(0.0635) High(0.35) Low(0.35) Volume(0)
1034 2011-01-15 09:08:36 <LobsterMan> gwg
1035 2011-01-15 09:08:39 <LobsterMan> heh*
1036 2011-01-15 09:13:06 altamic has joined
1037 2011-01-15 09:20:15 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 320000 18522.88679001
1038 2011-01-15 09:20:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 18522.88679001, is 2 days, 21 hours, 3 minutes, and 29 seconds
1039 2011-01-15 09:20:20 <davout> 0
1040 2011-01-15 09:37:44 TheAncientGoat has joined
1041 2011-01-15 09:44:47 devon_hillard has joined
1042 2011-01-15 09:46:17 EvanR has joined
1043 2011-01-15 10:00:30 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1044 2011-01-15 10:20:28 WonTu has joined
1045 2011-01-15 10:20:42 WonTu has left ()
1046 2011-01-15 10:21:52 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1047 2011-01-15 10:32:47 noagendamarket has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1048 2011-01-15 10:35:24 noagendamarket has joined
1049 2011-01-15 10:37:26 noagendamarket_ has joined
1050 2011-01-15 10:39:51 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1051 2011-01-15 10:39:53 noagendamarket_ is now known as noagendamarket
1052 2011-01-15 10:47:07 noagendamarket_ has joined
1053 2011-01-15 10:47:39 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1054 2011-01-15 10:47:49 noagendamarket_ is now known as noagendamarket
1055 2011-01-15 10:55:30 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
1056 2011-01-15 10:55:30 noagendamarket has joined
1057 2011-01-15 11:10:36 Zarutian has joined
1058 2011-01-15 11:10:46 noagendamarket has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1059 2011-01-15 11:11:17 noagendamarket has joined
1060 2011-01-15 11:37:30 altamic has joined
1061 2011-01-15 11:39:36 lolcat has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1062 2011-01-15 11:43:31 TD has joined
1063 2011-01-15 11:44:50 <noot> ;;;;
1064 2011-01-15 11:44:51 <gribble> Error: ";;" is not a valid command.
1065 2011-01-15 12:07:24 kermit has joined
1066 2011-01-15 12:28:57 grondilu has joined
1067 2011-01-15 12:29:42 devon_hillard_ has joined
1068 2011-01-15 12:29:53 akem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1069 2011-01-15 12:30:36 <grondilu> hum,  I couldn't get any connection during several minutes, then I turn it off, then back on, and then I got several connections instantly.  Not very good.
1070 2011-01-15 12:30:40 <alowm> ;;%0.2f
1071 2011-01-15 12:30:40 <gribble> Error: "%0.2f" is not a valid command.
1072 2011-01-15 12:30:46 <alowm> (just testing)
1073 2011-01-15 12:33:45 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1074 2011-01-15 12:34:34 devon_hillard_ has quit (Client Quit)
1075 2011-01-15 12:36:50 devon_hillard_ has joined
1076 2011-01-15 12:37:56 devon_hillard has quit (Disconnected by services)
1077 2011-01-15 12:38:11 devon_hillard_ is now known as devon_hillard
1078 2011-01-15 12:51:55 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1079 2011-01-15 12:53:28 altamic has joined
1080 2011-01-15 13:02:08 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1081 2011-01-15 13:04:55 altamic has joined
1082 2011-01-15 13:10:55 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1083 2011-01-15 13:17:54 <molecular> ;;bc,mtgox
1084 2011-01-15 13:17:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.45,"low":0.371,"vol":22261,"buy":0.3851,"sell":0.3998,"last":0.3998}}
1085 2011-01-15 13:27:22 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1086 2011-01-15 13:32:21 <molecular> my 0.3.19 bitcoin client drops to 0 connections after some time. is that normal? will it reconnect periodically?
1087 2011-01-15 13:33:30 <ArtForz> nope, that's not normal
1088 2011-01-15 13:33:51 ApertureScience has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1089 2011-01-15 13:34:13 <molecular> hm, should I hope for change in 0.3.20 or dig in?
1090 2011-01-15 13:34:21 <molecular> or try git?
1091 2011-01-15 13:34:29 <ArtForz> I doubt that helps
1092 2011-01-15 13:34:36 <molecular> ok
1093 2011-01-15 13:34:50 <ArtForz> haven't seen behaviour like this yet...
1094 2011-01-15 13:35:01 <slush> I see, on unstable connection
1095 2011-01-15 13:35:17 <molecular> It might be the case that my port-forward (8333) is not working. nonetheless it should stay connected?
1096 2011-01-15 13:35:18 <slush> (Internet connection, of course)
1097 2011-01-15 13:35:28 <ArtForz> doesnt matter really
1098 2011-01-15 13:35:32 <ArtForz> could also be a software firewall interfering
1099 2011-01-15 13:35:38 <molecular> My connection is definitely unstable... switches IP couple times a day
1100 2011-01-15 13:35:46 <molecular> no software firewall
1101 2011-01-15 13:35:48 <ArtForz> yeah, that could cause it
1102 2011-01-15 13:35:55 <molecular> ok, what could I do?
1103 2011-01-15 13:36:06 <ArtForz> restart bitcoin after connection drops
1104 2011-01-15 13:36:13 <molecular> :)
1105 2011-01-15 13:36:18 <ArtForz> I have the same problem, my ISP force-disconnects me once a day
1106 2011-01-15 13:36:22 <molecular> already doing that ;)
1107 2011-01-15 13:36:44 <ArtForz> without restarting bitcoin it takes AGES to time out the dead connections
1108 2011-01-15 13:36:57 <molecular> allright, maybe I could fiddle with the timeout somehow?
1109 2011-01-15 13:37:37 <ArtForz> hmmm
1110 2011-01-15 13:37:46 <ArtForz> it's not quite that easy
1111 2011-01-15 13:39:43 <molecular> phew, quite some code in net.*
1112 2011-01-15 13:40:12 <molecular> someone _loves_ whitespace ;)
1113 2011-01-15 13:41:07 <ArtForz> the problem is detecting connection drops
1114 2011-01-15 13:41:27 <ArtForz> disconnecting all peers and kicking the connect thread is pretty easy
1115 2011-01-15 13:42:19 <molecular> you're suggesting doing that periodically or by <cmd> on connection-cycle?
1116 2011-01-15 13:42:45 <ArtForz> I added a RPC command for it
1117 2011-01-15 13:43:08 <molecular> that was quick! or did you do that earlier already?
1118 2011-01-15 13:43:20 <ArtForz> already did that earlier
1119 2011-01-15 13:43:38 <ArtForz> then I have a small python script that peridoically queries my router for it's external interface status and IP and kicks the client when the external IF changes down->up or its IP changes
1120 2011-01-15 13:43:57 <ArtForz> a fucking ugly hack, but meh...
1121 2011-01-15 13:44:03 <molecular> planning similar, what's the command and is it in 0.3.19 or git only?
1122 2011-01-15 13:44:17 <ArtForz> neither
1123 2011-01-15 13:44:28 <ArtForz> it's in my private tree currently, and probably will stay there
1124 2011-01-15 13:44:39 <molecular> hmm, ok
1125 2011-01-15 13:45:06 <ArtForz> there has to be *some* way to detect connection dropout without relying on external help
1126 2011-01-15 13:45:40 <molecular> periodically checking single connections and closing them if dead would be quite allright, no?
1127 2011-01-15 13:45:51 <ArtForz> problem is our current "peer hasnt said anything in a while" timeout is 90 minutes (!)
1128 2011-01-15 13:46:34 <ArtForz> iirc peers send a ping() message every 30 minutes if there's no other activity
1129 2011-01-15 13:46:43 <molecular> does a change of IP only screw incoming connections or also outgoing?
1130 2011-01-15 13:46:51 <ArtForz> all connections here
1131 2011-01-15 13:46:53 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1132 2011-01-15 13:47:12 <ArtForz> hmmm... might have an idea
1133 2011-01-15 13:47:49 <ArtForz> we'd need some message that normally generates a reply
1134 2011-01-15 13:48:26 <molecular> like a ping?
1135 2011-01-15 13:48:57 <ArtForz> thats the problem, ping isn't getting replied to
1136 2011-01-15 13:49:12 <molecular> the make a new one, the pingpong?
1137 2011-01-15 13:49:29 <ArtForz> otherwise we could just send a ping() to a random connected peer once every 5 minutes or so, and if we don't get a response in 10 seconds or whatever assume it's dead
1138 2011-01-15 13:49:37 <molecular> yeah
1139 2011-01-15 13:49:48 <ArtForz> when that happens, ping() all connected peers that havent said anything for more than 60 seconds or so
1140 2011-01-15 13:49:55 <molecular> what use is a ping that triggers no reply?
1141 2011-01-15 13:50:16 <ArtForz> a keepalive to let the other side know the node is still there
1142 2011-01-15 13:50:30 <ArtForz> so yeah... we'd need to add a pong() message ...
1143 2011-01-15 13:50:30 <molecular> so facilitate that 90m timeout?
1144 2011-01-15 13:50:39 <molecular> s/so/to
1145 2011-01-15 13:50:42 <ArtForz> yep
1146 2011-01-15 13:50:45 <molecular> ok
1147 2011-01-15 13:51:06 <molecular> I'm still not sure that is the problem. The client says: "0 connections", so it's already detecting they are dead, no?
1148 2011-01-15 13:51:11 <ArtForz> yep
1149 2011-01-15 13:51:15 <ArtForz> it should tryx new connections
1150 2011-01-15 13:51:26 <molecular> right, but doesn't... why?
1151 2011-01-15 13:51:37 <ArtForz> I think we have a bug somewhere in that code
1152 2011-01-15 13:51:46 <molecular> would that be in net.cpp?
1153 2011-01-15 13:52:03 <ArtForz> afaict after trying to connect to a peer once it just ignores it ... pretty much forever
1154 2011-01-15 13:52:25 <molecular> so it runs out of "fresh" peers to connect to ?
1155 2011-01-15 13:52:28 <ArtForz> yep
1156 2011-01-15 13:52:40 <molecular> sounds easy enough to fix, if one knows where to look
1157 2011-01-15 13:53:08 <ArtForz> well, the "pick a peer and connect to it" is in net.cpp ThreadOpenConnections2
1158 2011-01-15 13:53:23 <niekie> Wooooo.
1159 2011-01-15 13:53:31 <niekie> Finally got GPU workers running :D
1160 2011-01-15 13:53:38 <niekie> At least, on 1 system :)
1161 2011-01-15 13:53:49 * ArtForz hands niekie a cookie
1162 2011-01-15 13:53:51 <niekie> Going around 5900-6000 khash :)
1163 2011-01-15 13:53:59 <niekie> Thanks ArtForz.
1164 2011-01-15 13:54:09 <niekie> ArtForz: did you know that I actually once traded bitcoins against cookies? :)
1165 2011-01-15 13:54:14 <ArtForz> wow, thats nearly half as fast as a modern CPU ;)
1166 2011-01-15 13:54:27 <niekie> I paid 500 bitcoins for them then :)
1167 2011-01-15 13:54:47 <ArtForz> didn't someone buy a pizza for 20000 bitcoins?
1168 2011-01-15 13:55:00 <niekie> I think so, yes.
1169 2011-01-15 13:55:16 <ArtForz> okay, back then 1 btc was traded at like $0.002
1170 2011-01-15 13:55:17 <niekie> Bah, it slowed down to around 5200-5300 khash :(
1171 2011-01-15 13:55:26 * niekie is sad.
1172 2011-01-15 13:55:47 <niekie> If only I could get CUDA working on this system I'm behind right now.
1173 2011-01-15 13:56:03 <ArtForz> if he just sat on em, thats one happy pizza baker nowadays
1174 2011-01-15 13:56:08 <molecular> niekie, don't be sad, molecular is doing 3khas/s on 2 (!!) gpus combined
1175 2011-01-15 13:56:34 <ArtForz> hrrrmmm
1176 2011-01-15 13:56:34 <niekie> molecular: heh :)
1177 2011-01-15 13:56:50 <ArtForz> I think I might know what the problem with running out of nodes is, but I'm not 100% sure
1178 2011-01-15 13:56:51 <niekie> I can do 3khash on my CPU :P
1179 2011-01-15 13:57:21 <ArtForz> hmmm... no
1180 2011-01-15 13:57:29 <molecular> is there an easy way to find out? I'd be willing to recycle my connection couple o' times to test ;)
1181 2011-01-15 13:57:48 * molecular can to 400hash/s on his cpu
1182 2011-01-15 13:57:50 <ArtForz> I just thought, what is the IRC thread doing when conn dies?
1183 2011-01-15 13:58:08 <molecular> but then my whole system (1 cpu, 2 gpu) runs on 30W
1184 2011-01-15 13:58:19 <molecular> wasn't exactly designed for mining, hehe
1185 2011-01-15 13:58:27 <ArtForz> my fastest CPU can do ~15Mh/s
1186 2011-01-15 13:58:28 <molecular> just for driving 2 screens
1187 2011-01-15 13:58:36 <molecular> ArtForz: wow!
1188 2011-01-15 13:58:52 <ArtForz> Phenom II X6 @ 4.0GHz
1189 2011-01-15 13:59:01 <niekie> How many cores does that one have? :)
1190 2011-01-15 13:59:06 <ArtForz> 6
1191 2011-01-15 13:59:09 <niekie> Sweet.
1192 2011-01-15 13:59:16 <ArtForz> and it's OCed from stock 3.2 to 4.0
1193 2011-01-15 13:59:19 <molecular> ArtForz: are you secretive about your total combined rate? I'm curious, you seem to have a lot of high-end gpus
1194 2011-01-15 13:59:24 <ArtForz> nah
1195 2011-01-15 13:59:31 <ArtForz> I have 16.5Gh/s total
1196 2011-01-15 13:59:35 <molecular> holy fuck!
1197 2011-01-15 13:59:44 <ArtForz> 24 5970s, 5 5770s, a 6870, a 6970
1198 2011-01-15 13:59:46 <molecular> that's equal to mining.bitcoin.cz
1199 2011-01-15 13:59:49 <ArtForz> yep
1200 2011-01-15 14:00:02 <niekie> Yeah, don't join mining.bitcoin.cz :P
1201 2011-01-15 14:00:07 <molecular> are you holding on to your btc?
1202 2011-01-15 14:00:21 <ArtForz> mostly, no
1203 2011-01-15 14:00:27 <molecular> niekie: why not. The only way to get any btc with 3khash/s
1204 2011-01-15 14:00:39 <ArtForz> currently I have about 40kBTC stockpiled, sold the rest
1205 2011-01-15 14:01:06 altamic has joined
1206 2011-01-15 14:01:08 <niekie> molecular: I meant for ArtForz ;)
1207 2011-01-15 14:01:18 <Diablo-D3> [08:51:40] <niekie> If only I could get CUDA working on this system I'm behind right now.
1208 2011-01-15 14:01:19 <Diablo-D3> honestly
1209 2011-01-15 14:01:21 <Diablo-D3> why bother
1210 2011-01-15 14:01:22 <Diablo-D3> its nvidia
1211 2011-01-15 14:01:33 <Diablo-D3> even nvidia's fastest card only mines about half as fast as ati's fastest
1212 2011-01-15 14:01:37 <ArtForz> half?
1213 2011-01-15 14:01:42 <ArtForz> more like 1/4
1214 2011-01-15 14:02:00 <Diablo-D3> I was going for single gpu cards
1215 2011-01-15 14:02:08 <ArtForz> GTX580 is <120Mh/s
1216 2011-01-15 14:02:19 <niekie> Diablo-D3: 'cause I'm not paying :)
1217 2011-01-15 14:02:25 <ArtForz> a 5850 is already more than twice that
1218 2011-01-15 14:02:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: jesus
1219 2011-01-15 14:02:56 <niekie> You kids and your GPU farms.
1220 2011-01-15 14:03:00 <ArtForz> tesla C20xx is ~77Mh/s
1221 2011-01-15 14:03:04 <niekie> In my day...
1222 2011-01-15 14:03:09 <Diablo-D3> dude
1223 2011-01-15 14:03:10 <Diablo-D3> if I ran tesla
1224 2011-01-15 14:03:11 <Diablo-D3> er
1225 2011-01-15 14:03:20 <Diablo-D3> (if I ran tesla I'd give my self a roadster, but)
1226 2011-01-15 14:03:24 <Diablo-D3> if I ran nvidia
1227 2011-01-15 14:03:33 <Diablo-D3> I'd get rid of the tesla series
1228 2011-01-15 14:03:53 <Diablo-D3> I'd probably keep selling those external box rigs, but sell them normally
1229 2011-01-15 14:03:57 <Diablo-D3> with normal cards in them
1230 2011-01-15 14:04:05 <Diablo-D3> and then cut prices in half on EVERYTHING
1231 2011-01-15 14:04:37 <niekie> Diablo-D3: might be of interest by the way: Your miner kept segfaulting on me with nVidia dev driver 256.
1232 2011-01-15 14:04:43 <niekie> Upgraded to 260 and it works fine now.
1233 2011-01-15 14:04:45 <Diablo-D3> niekie: yeah, its a driver bug
1234 2011-01-15 14:04:51 <Diablo-D3> I cant fix it
1235 2011-01-15 14:04:57 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is just going to have to learn how to code
1236 2011-01-15 14:05:00 <niekie> Hehe.
1237 2011-01-15 14:05:01 <ArtForz> btw, I think I might be able to get 350Mh/s on a 5870, 597Mh/s on a 5970
1238 2011-01-15 14:05:10 <ArtForz> stock
1239 2011-01-15 14:05:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how?
1240 2011-01-15 14:05:22 <ArtForz> CAL IL + BFI_INT
1241 2011-01-15 14:05:29 <Diablo-D3> meh.
1242 2011-01-15 14:06:10 <ArtForz> oh, and CAL doesnt have the 100% CPU bug with newer SDKs
1243 2011-01-15 14:06:23 <Diablo-D3> yeah but CAL has fucked 5th unit access
1244 2011-01-15 14:06:27 <ArtForz> huH?
1245 2011-01-15 14:06:34 <Diablo-D3> CAL cant easily use unit 5
1246 2011-01-15 14:06:40 <Diablo-D3> the T unit or whatever
1247 2011-01-15 14:06:41 <ArtForz> my CAL IL is actually non-vectorized
1248 2011-01-15 14:07:13 <ArtForz> the shader compiler is pretty good at making use of all VLIW units
1249 2011-01-15 14:07:27 Myckel has joined
1250 2011-01-15 14:07:28 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
1251 2011-01-15 14:07:28 Myckel has joined
1252 2011-01-15 14:07:55 <Diablo-D3> huh.
1253 2011-01-15 14:08:48 <ArtForz> yep
1254 2011-01-15 14:09:12 * molecular will be back buggin about networking code later
1255 2011-01-15 14:09:24 <molecular> thx for the infos, ArtForz
1256 2011-01-15 14:09:32 <molecular> have to go for a walk with gf
1257 2011-01-15 14:19:32 Bimmerhead has joined
1258 2011-01-15 14:20:25 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1259 2011-01-15 14:28:56 Bimmerhead has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1260 2011-01-15 14:29:32 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1261 2011-01-15 14:30:44 <MT`AwAy> is it me or did difficulty just increase?
1262 2011-01-15 14:31:06 <MT`AwAy> like less than 10 minutes ago
1263 2011-01-15 14:32:26 <Keefe> yep
1264 2011-01-15 14:33:51 davout has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1265 2011-01-15 14:34:07 davout has joined
1266 2011-01-15 14:36:23 dwdollar has left ()
1267 2011-01-15 14:38:19 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
1268 2011-01-15 14:38:21 <gribble> 18437.64439217
1269 2011-01-15 14:43:40 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
1270 2011-01-15 14:43:41 <gribble> 73751.21078389
1271 2011-01-15 14:43:50 <lfm> hehe
1272 2011-01-15 14:44:02 <lfm> ;;bc;stats
1273 2011-01-15 14:44:03 <gribble> Error: "bc;stats" is not a valid command.
1274 2011-01-15 14:44:14 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
1275 2011-01-15 14:44:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102816 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 73751.21078389
1276 2011-01-15 14:46:13 Kiba` has joined
1277 2011-01-15 14:46:55 <[Noodles]> 0.o
1278 2011-01-15 14:47:30 <[Noodles]> guess i'd stop generating if that'd happen
1279 2011-01-15 14:50:23 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1280 2011-01-15 14:50:48 <lfm> thats more than the 4x limit even
1281 2011-01-15 14:51:14 <lfm> or i guess not
1282 2011-01-15 15:01:38 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
1283 2011-01-15 15:01:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102819 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 2012 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 12 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25445.99200165
1284 2011-01-15 15:01:46 TD has joined
1285 2011-01-15 15:01:55 <lfm> slightly more reasonable
1286 2011-01-15 15:02:04 <ArtForz> 556.4 Mh/s on stock 5970 using OpenCL, expected 565.1 using CAL, 595.6 with BFI_INT for ch()
1287 2011-01-15 15:05:28 <ArtForz> and 610.4Mh/s using another trick
1288 2011-01-15 15:06:11 hundfred has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1289 2011-01-15 15:06:26 <ArtForz> thats ... about 13% faster than m0s?
1290 2011-01-15 15:06:50 Cusipzzz has joined
1291 2011-01-15 15:07:20 xelister has joined
1292 2011-01-15 15:07:20 xelister has quit (Changing host)
1293 2011-01-15 15:07:20 xelister has joined
1294 2011-01-15 15:07:31 Cusipzzz has quit (Client Quit)
1295 2011-01-15 15:08:37 Cusipzzz has joined
1296 2011-01-15 15:21:48 <niekie> Heh.
1297 2011-01-15 15:22:02 <niekie> I found a nasty hack to get the GPU in this system working anyway.
1298 2011-01-15 15:22:10 <niekie> I'm disappointed at the speed though :P
1299 2011-01-15 15:25:43 ThomasV has joined
1300 2011-01-15 15:26:06 <lfm> niekie what gpu model is it?
1301 2011-01-15 15:26:16 <niekie> nVidia GeForce 310M.
1302 2011-01-15 15:26:18 <niekie> Yeah, a laptop :P
1303 2011-01-15 15:26:39 <niekie> My GT220M is outperforming it (also laptop)
1304 2011-01-15 15:27:03 <lfm> whyd it need a nasty hack? isnt it normally supported?
1305 2011-01-15 15:27:12 <ArtForz> = 4*5970 box should be able to hit 3Gh/s on water, 2.75Gh/s on air
1306 2011-01-15 15:27:33 <niekie> lfm: it is. But not easy on nVidia Optimus laptops ;)
1307 2011-01-15 15:27:49 <niekie> Linux doesn't like Optimus.
1308 2011-01-15 15:28:32 <lfm> is that an Atom cpu?
1309 2011-01-15 15:29:00 <niekie> Huh?
1310 2011-01-15 15:29:18 <lfm> what cpu does it have?
1311 2011-01-15 15:29:22 <niekie> Intel i5.
1312 2011-01-15 15:29:27 <lfm> oh ok
1313 2011-01-15 15:29:33 <niekie> Running a seperate worker for CPU.
1314 2011-01-15 15:30:04 <lfm> 4way should work on that
1315 2011-01-15 15:30:17 <niekie> Yeah.
1316 2011-01-15 15:30:19 <niekie> Works fine.
1317 2011-01-15 15:30:43 <niekie> Getting around 3000+ Khash from it.
1318 2011-01-15 15:31:23 <lfm> cool
1319 2011-01-15 15:31:27 <niekie> 3500+Khash from GPU.
1320 2011-01-15 15:31:41 <niekie> 5500+ Khash from GT220M GPU
1321 2011-01-15 15:48:52 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1322 2011-01-15 15:50:00 tg has joined
1323 2011-01-15 16:00:18 <luke-jr> nanotube: 10 TBC is 0.01… BTC :p
1324 2011-01-15 16:03:18 MJ94 has joined
1325 2011-01-15 16:03:52 <MJ94> Hi there! niekie was just telling me about BC, I'm a little confused. What it it?
1326 2011-01-15 16:04:26 <noagendamarket> hi mj94
1327 2011-01-15 16:04:38 <noagendamarket> think of it as intenet currency
1328 2011-01-15 16:04:40 <MJ94> Hi there.
1329 2011-01-15 16:04:41 <luke-jr> MJ94: crypto-currency
1330 2011-01-15 16:04:43 <MJ94> OK.
1331 2011-01-15 16:04:50 <MJ94> Internet money.
1332 2011-01-15 16:04:58 <noagendamarket> you can send or recieve as easy as an email
1333 2011-01-15 16:04:59 <luke-jr> MJ94: internet commodity*
1334 2011-01-15 16:05:09 <MJ94> OK.
1335 2011-01-15 16:05:19 <noagendamarket> http://bitcoionme.com
1336 2011-01-15 16:05:22 <MJ94> How do you get it, and what is it good for?
1337 2011-01-15 16:05:24 <luke-jr> MJ94: it's not like USD, which is based on legal force; nor like Pecunix, which is backed by gold
1338 2011-01-15 16:05:26 <noagendamarket> oops wrong url
1339 2011-01-15 16:05:34 <luke-jr> Bitcoins are like gold, valued in themselves
1340 2011-01-15 16:05:39 <noagendamarket> http://bitcoinme.com
1341 2011-01-15 16:05:52 <luke-jr> MJ94: 3 ways to get it
1342 2011-01-15 16:06:00 <luke-jr> 1. (difficult) buy it
1343 2011-01-15 16:06:04 <noagendamarket> they are backed by the ability to transact easily :)
1344 2011-01-15 16:06:05 <luke-jr> 2. earn it
1345 2011-01-15 16:06:08 <luke-jr> 3. mine it
1346 2011-01-15 16:06:22 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: no. then anything else would be better
1347 2011-01-15 16:06:49 <MJ94> ...okay.
1348 2011-01-15 16:06:55 <MJ94> So it's fake money?
1349 2011-01-15 16:07:03 <MJ94> Gah. I feel kinda dumb.
1350 2011-01-15 16:07:03 <luke-jr> it's more real than USD ☺
1351 2011-01-15 16:07:04 <MJ94> :P
1352 2011-01-15 16:07:10 <luke-jr> MJ94: it's difficult to buy, because everything you might want to buy it with is fake
1353 2011-01-15 16:07:12 <luke-jr> eg, USD
1354 2011-01-15 16:07:20 <MJ94> Uh.
1355 2011-01-15 16:07:23 <MJ94> USD = fake?
1356 2011-01-15 16:07:27 <luke-jr> yes
1357 2011-01-15 16:07:28 <luke-jr> well, you can probably buy it with hard cash USD
1358 2011-01-15 16:07:33 <MJ94> If I go to the store it seems real...
1359 2011-01-15 16:07:35 HarryS has joined
1360 2011-01-15 16:07:36 <luke-jr> but not easily with credit cards, etc
1361 2011-01-15 16:07:50 <luke-jr> because credit cards can be chargebacked/disputed
1362 2011-01-15 16:07:54 <noagendamarket> a bitcoin is just a record that you own a set of secret keys
1363 2011-01-15 16:08:04 <luke-jr> and the person selling you bitcoins can never get them back that way
1364 2011-01-15 16:08:13 <noagendamarket> and when  you send bitcoin you send the ownership of those keys
1365 2011-01-15 16:08:29 <MJ94> Hm.
1366 2011-01-15 16:08:58 <nolan_d> Anyone who believes the USD is real should check out the latest This American Life podcast, quickly before it goes away tomorrow. http://thisamericanlife.org
1367 2011-01-15 16:09:23 <MJ94> What do you mean by not real?
1368 2011-01-15 16:09:28 <luke-jr> MJ94: it has no real value
1369 2011-01-15 16:09:35 <MJ94> I go to the store and buy stuff with USD.
1370 2011-01-15 16:09:38 <luke-jr> people accept it because the law says they have to
1371 2011-01-15 16:09:41 <MJ94> Therefore...value?
1372 2011-01-15 16:09:48 <noagendamarket> you are forced to accept it
1373 2011-01-15 16:09:50 <noagendamarket> yes
1374 2011-01-15 16:09:59 <luke-jr> USD is printed all the time -- inflation
1375 2011-01-15 16:09:59 <noagendamarket> iuts accepoted for taxes
1376 2011-01-15 16:10:09 <MJ94> ok..
1377 2011-01-15 16:10:21 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1378 2011-01-15 16:10:31 <noagendamarket> ie if someone points a gun at you and demands coconuts as payment
1379 2011-01-15 16:10:42 <noagendamarket> then coconuts are now money
1380 2011-01-15 16:10:57 <MJ94> Uh huh.
1381 2011-01-15 16:11:08 <MJ94> I get that.
1382 2011-01-15 16:11:22 <noagendamarket> bitcoin is voluntary
1383 2011-01-15 16:11:29 <MJ94> But you can't go to the store and say: I wanna buy that game with coconuts.
1384 2011-01-15 16:11:30 <MJ94> OK.
1385 2011-01-15 16:11:56 <noagendamarket> you can get visa cards with bitcoin
1386 2011-01-15 16:12:02 <noagendamarket> or amazon gift cards
1387 2011-01-15 16:12:19 <MJ94> Free money, basically?
1388 2011-01-15 16:12:23 <noagendamarket> no
1389 2011-01-15 16:12:26 <[Noodles]> the guy with the gun, paying you coconuts wont care that the store you wont to shop at doesnt accept it
1390 2011-01-15 16:12:38 <[Noodles]> *want
1391 2011-01-15 16:12:57 <MJ94> <MJ94> Free money, basically?
1392 2011-01-15 16:12:58 <MJ94> <noagendamarket> no
1393 2011-01-15 16:13:01 <MJ94> ?
1394 2011-01-15 16:13:05 <[Noodles]> free as in freedom, yes
1395 2011-01-15 16:13:17 <xelister> nolan_d: see freenetproject.org ( #freenet ) for un-censorable network. make freesite and post there the movie :)  PM me for details
1396 2011-01-15 16:14:43 <xelister> (I assume here that this is legal to copy it, didn't check)
1397 2011-01-15 16:15:09 <MJ94> So how does one get Bitcoins?
1398 2011-01-15 16:15:10 <noagendamarket> http://lmptfy.com
1399 2011-01-15 16:15:43 <noagendamarket> do you have anything you can offer for bitcoins?
1400 2011-01-15 16:15:44 <xelister> nolan_d: "And you can always download the most recent episode for free. Just click Free MP3 on the current episode's page." ... url?
1401 2011-01-15 16:15:59 <xelister> MJ94: what gfx card you have? if other then radeon 5xxx or 6xxx then you buy it
1402 2011-01-15 16:16:07 <[Noodles]> buy them, earn them, accept them as payment, or try generating some blocks
1403 2011-01-15 16:17:17 <nolan_d> xelister: Right, but the ep I referred to is going away tomorrow, so...
1404 2011-01-15 16:17:18 <MJ94> xelister: graphics cards?
1405 2011-01-15 16:17:19 <slush> MJ94: Easiest way - http://coinpal.ndrix.com/
1406 2011-01-15 16:17:31 <xelister> nolan_d: what is the url to get mp3 now?
1407 2011-01-15 16:17:32 <MJ94> Guys: I still don't understand the point in this.
1408 2011-01-15 16:17:41 <slush> MJ94: Second easiest way - go to #bitcoin-otc and find someone who sell you some
1409 2011-01-15 16:17:43 <luke-jr> MJ94: inflation-proof currency
1410 2011-01-15 16:17:57 <[Noodles]> what's the point in using PayPal?
1411 2011-01-15 16:17:58 <luke-jr> MJ94: nobody controls it, so nobody can inflate it by printing more
1412 2011-01-15 16:18:01 <xelister> MJ94: electronic currency thaet is decentralised
1413 2011-01-15 16:18:03 <MJ94> Yes. But they can't buy anything?
1414 2011-01-15 16:18:06 <nolan_d> There's a bug in my client that causes it to crash if I paste in URLs. Should be easy to find from http://thisamericanlife.org.
1415 2011-01-15 16:18:07 <[Noodles]> or any other payment processor?
1416 2011-01-15 16:18:07 <ArtForz> *decentralized* inflation-proof currency, see the egold debacle
1417 2011-01-15 16:18:09 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: ever wanted to make an anonymous transaction?
1418 2011-01-15 16:18:20 <MJ94> Cusipzzz: uh, no.
1419 2011-01-15 16:18:21 <slush> MJ94: Pick up gold bullion and go to store. What you buy?
1420 2011-01-15 16:18:24 <luke-jr> MJ94: you can buy plenty
1421 2011-01-15 16:18:24 <xelister> nolan_d: your client sucks cocks
1422 2011-01-15 16:18:28 <xelister> nolan_d:  :)
1423 2011-01-15 16:18:31 <slush> MJ94: Probably nothing. This does not mean gold has no value
1424 2011-01-15 16:18:41 * nolan_d shrugs.
1425 2011-01-15 16:18:56 <MJ94> Can someone describe inflation? Prices going up?
1426 2011-01-15 16:19:07 <luke-jr> MJ94: US government prints more money
1427 2011-01-15 16:19:09 <luke-jr> more USD exist
1428 2011-01-15 16:19:14 <luke-jr> value of individual USD goes down
1429 2011-01-15 16:19:15 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: currency value goes down
1430 2011-01-15 16:19:27 <luke-jr> MJ94: the average American sees this as prices going up
1431 2011-01-15 16:20:06 <nolan_d> MJ94: You should really listen to that ep I mentioned earlier, it has a great story about how Brazil quite literally swapped out "real" currency for imaginary currency to curb rampant inflation.
1432 2011-01-15 16:20:07 <xelister> http://feeds.thisamericanlife.org/talpodcast
1433 2011-01-15 16:20:12 <xelister> http://feeds.thisamericanlife.org/~r/talpodcast/~5/P0xu75eQEMc/423.mp3
1434 2011-01-15 16:20:15 <xelister> that is it.
1435 2011-01-15 16:21:18 <nolan_d> And the last story explains how the fed creates money out of thin air, apparently it is literally changing the balance in banks' books in exchange for bonds.
1436 2011-01-15 16:23:22 <MJ94> I haven't taken economics yet.
1437 2011-01-15 16:23:24 <MJ94> But.
1438 2011-01-15 16:23:52 <MJ94> Like...why can't the government create more money? If they create 5 dollars, cool. Go get a subway footlong.
1439 2011-01-15 16:23:56 <nolan_d> Then the ep is an even better source of information for you. It doesn't presume an economics background.
1440 2011-01-15 16:24:22 <luke-jr> MJ94: tbh, I think inflation is an ideal way to ensure everyone is taxed equally, but oh well
1441 2011-01-15 16:24:33 <nolan_d> The Brazilian government did just that. You'll hear just how it failed spectacularly.
1442 2011-01-15 16:24:49 <luke-jr> I guess the problem is lack of accountability that way
1443 2011-01-15 16:24:54 <luke-jr> makes even easier to overspend
1444 2011-01-15 16:26:08 <luke-jr> for me, bitcoins are a good way to get Tonal adopted in the currency area ;)
1445 2011-01-15 16:31:46 <MJ94> http://www.bitcoinme.com/
1446 2011-01-15 16:31:46 <luke-jr> MJ94: the BitCoin Faucet will send you 0.05 BTC "free", but that's a trivial amount
1447 2011-01-15 16:31:52 <MJ94> I read that.
1448 2011-01-15 16:31:59 <luke-jr> about 2 USD cents right now
1449 2011-01-15 16:31:59 <MJ94> I'm a tad less confused.
1450 2011-01-15 16:32:06 <MJ94> So what do I do now??
1451 2011-01-15 16:32:19 <MJ94> I wanna get started. I have nothing to lose, right?
1452 2011-01-15 16:32:31 <xelister> MJ94: if gov would create x2 more money, then it means all money is x2 less worthy
1453 2011-01-15 16:32:40 <MJ94> Why?
1454 2011-01-15 16:32:45 <MJ94> I don't get that.
1455 2011-01-15 16:33:01 <xelister> prices would go x2 up
1456 2011-01-15 16:33:16 <xelister> money is just a tool to easier exchange goods and services
1457 2011-01-15 16:33:17 <MJ94> hmmm
1458 2011-01-15 16:33:20 <luke-jr> bitcoinme.com lies -.-
1459 2011-01-15 16:33:33 <luke-jr> MJ94: if you invest in bitcoin, you have something to lose.
1460 2011-01-15 16:33:33 <MJ94> why would prices go up?
1461 2011-01-15 16:33:39 <luke-jr> MJ94: if you don't, you have little to gain
1462 2011-01-15 16:34:16 <MJ94> Should I try it?
1463 2011-01-15 16:34:21 <xelister> MJ94: there are just 11 people in the world, me and 10 customers that buy bread for me, paying me 1 USD for each.  There are like 50 USD totall in existance
1464 2011-01-15 16:34:25 <luke-jr> MJ94: I just bought 100 BTC the other day
1465 2011-01-15 16:34:54 <xelister> so everyone have like 5 USD, each day they give 1 USD to me for food, 2-3 for water and home, and spend last 1-2 in a borthel
1466 2011-01-15 16:35:02 <xelister> everyone earns around 5 USD daily of course
1467 2011-01-15 16:35:09 <xelister> so the money just circulates around right?
1468 2011-01-15 16:35:21 <MJ94> yes
1469 2011-01-15 16:35:38 <xelister> and now, imagin, a government says "aww fuck it, lets make everyone super rich!"  and gives everyone 10000 USD
1470 2011-01-15 16:35:47 <MJ94> Cool.
1471 2011-01-15 16:35:49 <MJ94> :)
1472 2011-01-15 16:35:52 <xelister> next day customer have not 1 but like 8000 USD to spend
1473 2011-01-15 16:35:58 <xelister> will he really buy 8000 breads from me?
1474 2011-01-15 16:36:08 <MJ94> No, but he could.
1475 2011-01-15 16:36:13 <xelister> no, because I can still just produce like 5-7 breads per day
1476 2011-01-15 16:36:20 <MJ94> And then not come back the next day.
1477 2011-01-15 16:36:21 <xelister> instead I would just rise price so
1478 2011-01-15 16:36:21 <MJ94> Oh.
1479 2011-01-15 16:36:25 <Cusipzzz> no. price of each bread must go up
1480 2011-01-15 16:36:26 <Kiba`> Live free and propserous!
1481 2011-01-15 16:36:27 <luke-jr> MJ94: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ look at the value of BitCoin relative to other currency
1482 2011-01-15 16:36:31 * Kiba` makes a V sign
1483 2011-01-15 16:36:34 Kiba` is now known as kiba
1484 2011-01-15 16:36:38 * kiba is utter  fail
1485 2011-01-15 16:36:47 <xelister> so in the end I still just produce 5-6 breads (printing MONEY doesnt magically change that), only now all prices are x1000
1486 2011-01-15 16:37:00 <xelister> bread costs 1000 not 1, everyone earns around 5000 not 5 per day and so on
1487 2011-01-15 16:37:14 <MJ94> [10:32:17] <Cusipzzz> no. price of each bread must go up - so people don't buy everything he has, and he can't make money?
1488 2011-01-15 16:37:24 <xelister> printing money does nothing.  Organizing people to build say new bread factory, that could actually make everyone have more Valuable Things
1489 2011-01-15 16:37:51 <xelister> also this is why USA is stupid
1490 2011-01-15 16:37:55 <luke-jr> MJ94: if you have 8000, why make bread for another 8? :p
1491 2011-01-15 16:38:01 <xelister> USA got rid of all factors and shit (to china ;)  and they just print empty money
1492 2011-01-15 16:38:08 <kiba> somehow I stop ignoring xelister
1493 2011-01-15 16:38:19 <kiba> xelister: I called it division of labor
1494 2011-01-15 16:38:32 spinningsheep has left ("Leaving.")
1495 2011-01-15 16:38:46 <luke-jr> $8 more is worthless when you have $8000 to spend already
1496 2011-01-15 16:38:47 <xelister> yeah, money are just tokens, to make it easier to exchanged goods.  Like... I-make-bread-for-you-you-will-give-me-blowjob and so on
1497 2011-01-15 16:38:47 <luke-jr> :p
1498 2011-01-15 16:39:04 * luke-jr smacks xelister
1499 2011-01-15 16:39:08 <MJ94> xelister: O_O
1500 2011-01-15 16:39:16 <kiba> luke-jr is a prune
1501 2011-01-15 16:39:26 <xelister> without money same thing happens but it is just less handy, like to get a blowjob, you must first get wine, then sell it for apples, then sell apples for bread, and then take bread to borthel
1502 2011-01-15 16:39:36 <xelister> money is just a common medium to speed up such exchange chains
1503 2011-01-15 16:39:42 <luke-jr> MJ94: did you see http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
1504 2011-01-15 16:39:47 <luke-jr> kiba: prude*
1505 2011-01-15 16:39:50 <MJ94> luke-jr: not yet
1506 2011-01-15 16:40:00 <xelister> what? my example is perfect, sex is the oldest good ever
1507 2011-01-15 16:40:09 <xelister> even bacteria traded it milions of years ago
1508 2011-01-15 16:40:10 <luke-jr> xelister: nope
1509 2011-01-15 16:40:14 <xelister> ok, sex and food
1510 2011-01-15 16:40:22 <luke-jr> xelister: services
1511 2011-01-15 16:40:26 <ArtForz> erm, wow
1512 2011-01-15 16:40:29 <luke-jr> midwifery
1513 2011-01-15 16:40:33 <xelister> sex, food, war - 3 oldest professions/jobs
1514 2011-01-15 16:40:40 <ArtForz> bcLREUR had more volume in the last 24h than mtgox?
1515 2011-01-15 16:40:45 <MJ94> Sooo...why are BC better than USD?
1516 2011-01-15 16:40:49 <MJ94> 1 main reason
1517 2011-01-15 16:40:55 <luke-jr> MJ94: controlled inflation
1518 2011-01-15 16:41:03 <xelister> MJ94: FED can't print shitload of money like in more example.
1519 2011-01-15 16:41:06 <MJ94> ok
1520 2011-01-15 16:41:11 <luke-jr> MJ94: people can trust it to retain the same value
1521 2011-01-15 16:41:26 <MJ94> but inflation isn't bad, is it?
1522 2011-01-15 16:41:37 <luke-jr> MJ94: it affects the value of currency
1523 2011-01-15 16:41:38 <MJ94> Prices go up, so people get more money.
1524 2011-01-15 16:41:39 <ArtForz> unpredictable inflation is
1525 2011-01-15 16:41:54 <MJ94> ArtForz: Why?
1526 2011-01-15 16:41:59 <luke-jr> MJ94: all of sudden your $1000 life savings is worth the equivalent of $0.01
1527 2011-01-15 16:42:09 <xelister> MJ94: in reality, in my example, bad things happen.  It is like that gov prints 8000 USD, and gives it to ONE person (say, the king). Now the king can buy x2000 more stuff then you can. E.g. he can buy all bread there can be done and have you starved - either directly, or just driving up bread price by paying too much/ordering too much etc
1528 2011-01-15 16:42:10 <ArtForz> yep
1529 2011-01-15 16:42:13 <luke-jr> you understand the concept of saving, right?
1530 2011-01-15 16:42:24 <MJ94> That's DEflation is it not, luke-jr?
1531 2011-01-15 16:42:25 <xelister> yea, and what luke-jr said
1532 2011-01-15 16:42:32 <luke-jr> MJ94: no
1533 2011-01-15 16:42:33 <MJ94> luke-jr: I think so.
1534 2011-01-15 16:42:50 <ArtForz> no, thats inflation alright
1535 2011-01-15 16:43:14 <MJ94> luke-jr: what kind of savings?
1536 2011-01-15 16:43:22 <luke-jr> if $1000 bought 1000 breads yesterday, and now it buys 1 bread, your $1000 is now worth what used to be $0.01
1537 2011-01-15 16:44:38 devon_hillard_ has joined
1538 2011-01-15 16:45:56 <MJ94> so you lost $999
1539 2011-01-15 16:46:37 ApertureScience has joined
1540 2011-01-15 16:46:40 <luke-jr> sortof
1541 2011-01-15 16:47:58 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1542 2011-01-15 16:53:22 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1543 2011-01-15 16:54:19 <xelister> just your money is worthless
1544 2011-01-15 16:54:23 <xelister> this is called hyperinflation
1545 2011-01-15 16:54:31 <xelister> and happened many many times. also in USA afair?
1546 2011-01-15 16:56:24 akem has joined
1547 2011-01-15 16:58:03 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: no, it means your $1000 is worth what $1 did
1548 2011-01-15 16:58:15 <Diablo-D3> and yes, you're correct you lost $999.
1549 2011-01-15 16:58:25 <Diablo-D3> this is called "a revolt"
1550 2011-01-15 16:58:42 * xelister listens to the audition nolan_d recommended
1551 2011-01-15 17:02:33 <MJ94> I installed BitCoin. Next?
1552 2011-01-15 17:03:15 <niekie> Trade your stuff or offer services for bitcoins? :)
1553 2011-01-15 17:04:40 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1554 2011-01-15 17:04:51 <xelister> MJ94: you can for example pay me USD and get BTC and with BTC you can buy say a WWW hosting or other services
1555 2011-01-15 17:04:53 <MJ94> This is where I get horribly confused.
1556 2011-01-15 17:05:16 <dooglus> you didn't lose $999, you still have $1000.  you lost 999 breads.
1557 2011-01-15 17:05:32 <MJ94> I can't go to the store and say I have fifty bitcoins. I wanna buy that game.
1558 2011-01-15 17:05:43 <MJ94> I can with money.
1559 2011-01-15 17:05:48 <xelister> MJ94: or offer some services like translating texts or making art or somthing, then someone pays you BTC and with this BTC you buy things from people that accept BTC as payment (e.g. I would write you some computer program for BTC and so on)
1560 2011-01-15 17:05:51 <MJ94> So BC are of no use to me?
1561 2011-01-15 17:06:06 <dooglus> depends what money.  you can't go to the store and say you have 20 rupees either
1562 2011-01-15 17:06:16 <dooglus> unless the store accepts rupees
1563 2011-01-15 17:06:25 <MJ94> No. But I'm American. And everyone takes USD.
1564 2011-01-15 17:06:41 <xelister> MJ94: think of it as Japenese Yens.  You cant use them directly in store in USA.  You can go to some Japan district or find a japan store. Or find exchange point
1565 2011-01-15 17:06:47 <dooglus> no, they don't.  most places I've been don't accept USD
1566 2011-01-15 17:07:06 <xelister> MJ94: most shops do not accept USD
1567 2011-01-15 17:07:09 <kiba> this gene guy seem to have anti-elitist and anti-rich bias or something
1568 2011-01-15 17:07:12 <MJ94> so you buy BitCoin stuff online?
1569 2011-01-15 17:07:20 <MJ94> xelister: do toto.
1570 2011-01-15 17:07:24 <MJ94> do too*
1571 2011-01-15 17:07:41 <niekie> MJ94: well, there are for example stores that sell prepaid credit cards in USD for Bitcoins.
1572 2011-01-15 17:07:43 <xelister> MJ94: out of 10 shops they are in 100m radius from me, none accepts USD
1573 2011-01-15 17:07:58 <[Noodles]> just 10?
1574 2011-01-15 17:07:58 <dooglus> MJ94: the world isn't america
1575 2011-01-15 17:08:01 <xelister> fortunatelly, I'm not in USA
1576 2011-01-15 17:08:17 <[Noodles]> i don't know any store around that accepts USD
1577 2011-01-15 17:08:25 <MJ94> What's wrong with America?
1578 2011-01-15 17:08:25 <MJ94> Wait.
1579 2011-01-15 17:08:25 <MJ94> Don't answer that.
1580 2011-01-15 17:08:34 <dooglus> MJ94: that's not the point
1581 2011-01-15 17:08:46 <dooglus> MJ94: the point is most of the world isn't america, and doesn't accept USD
1582 2011-01-15 17:09:23 <MJ94> Oh. BC is universal...
1583 2011-01-15 17:09:32 * MJ94 gets it...
1584 2011-01-15 17:09:41 <MJ94> A universal currency?
1585 2011-01-15 17:10:07 <xelister> MJ94: illegal wars when milions are murdered, while in USA you can go to jail for using the weed based narcotics instead of liquid based ones, would be one example of what is wrong with usa ;)
1586 2011-01-15 17:10:08 <dooglus> MJ94: also a currency which can't be debased by a central bank
1587 2011-01-15 17:10:15 <xelister> *where
1588 2011-01-15 17:11:30 <MJ94> So...how do I get coins?
1589 2011-01-15 17:11:49 <MJ94> I don't have anything to offer.
1590 2011-01-15 17:12:03 <MJ94> And if I did, I would charge local money, probably.
1591 2011-01-15 17:12:08 <xelister> also, BTC is not controlled by any government, that can fuck money up by printing bazillion dolars, as in my examples.  In my examples, family of king has 10000 suddenly, you still get 5 as before, and bread cost I must rise to say 3000 at least... before the inflation ripple reaches you and you start getting like 50,200,1000 instead of 5 usd per day, you may starve. Also all your saving are useless. This is how dengerousd infaltion is
1592 2011-01-15 17:12:21 <Diablo-D3> MJ94: you can offer services in both.
1593 2011-01-15 17:12:45 <MJ94> Diablo-D3: But BC won't help me when I go to the grocery store.
1594 2011-01-15 17:12:46 <MJ94> :P
1595 2011-01-15 17:12:47 <xelister> Tired of **CPU** pooled 'mining' with no result? GET PAID NOW! Send pic of "Xelister and bitcoin rock! :*" pen-written: 1 BTC on hand; If ur cute girl: 2; 5 on back or above breasts; 10 on them(>18yo!). ~15 BTC for nice girls(PM me). Not faked! Real offer:) PM before!
1596 2011-01-15 17:12:48 <xelister> MJ94: ^
1597 2011-01-15 17:12:53 devon_hillard_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1598 2011-01-15 17:13:01 <Diablo-D3> MJ94: thats why you convert back to USD
1599 2011-01-15 17:13:23 <MJ94> xelister: what.
1600 2011-01-15 17:13:34 <MJ94> Diablo-D3: er, em, er okay
1601 2011-01-15 17:13:40 <xelister> MJ94: this is example of bid for services payed in USD. there are others too
1602 2011-01-15 17:13:55 <xelister> MJ94: e.g. I could pay you 3 BTC to mawn my lawn and so on
1603 2011-01-15 17:13:59 <niekie> xelister: so you're paying for amusement? :)
1604 2011-01-15 17:14:12 <MJ94> Or you could pay me $5...
1605 2011-01-15 17:14:14 <xelister> niekie: sure
1606 2011-01-15 17:14:30 <xelister> MJ94: yeap, or 5 yens and so on, there are many currencies
1607 2011-01-15 17:14:37 <xelister> BTC is fast to trade elctronically
1608 2011-01-15 17:14:37 <MJ94> No no.
1609 2011-01-15 17:14:41 <MJ94> $5.
1610 2011-01-15 17:14:44 <xelister> safe from destruction by stupid government
1611 2011-01-15 17:14:48 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: he's in another country, much harder for him to pay you 5 USD than BTC
1612 2011-01-15 17:14:48 <MJ94> We don't do yen here.
1613 2011-01-15 17:14:54 <MJ94> Oh.
1614 2011-01-15 17:14:56 <MJ94> OH OH
1615 2011-01-15 17:14:59 <MJ94> OH I SEE
1616 2011-01-15 17:15:06 <MJ94> Well, PayPal converts it...
1617 2011-01-15 17:15:14 <xelister> also bitcoin can be anonymous (esp. with Freenet transport that is in development)
1618 2011-01-15 17:15:17 <Diablo-D3> paypal converts it for a 3% fee
1619 2011-01-15 17:15:23 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin doesnt.
1620 2011-01-15 17:15:24 <MJ94> :O
1621 2011-01-15 17:15:25 <xelister> PayPal are buch of mother fucking evil fucktard bitches
1622 2011-01-15 17:15:28 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: and what happens when paypal locks your account?
1623 2011-01-15 17:15:43 <MJ94> That happened to me.
1624 2011-01-15 17:15:45 <dooglus> MJ94: paypal may decide they don't want to do business with you.  you're selling smutty photos of your breasts after all
1625 2011-01-15 17:15:47 <MJ94> Lost $20.
1626 2011-01-15 17:15:49 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: you are at their mercy... with BTC, you are at nobody's mercy
1627 2011-01-15 17:15:51 <xelister> MJ94: and to many others
1628 2011-01-15 17:15:55 <dooglus> MJ94: 'bitcoin' will always do business with you
1629 2011-01-15 17:15:55 <xelister> you are paypal's bitch
1630 2011-01-15 17:16:00 altamic has joined
1631 2011-01-15 17:16:37 <MJ94> Can someone give me a little bit of BC and I can send it back, to test?
1632 2011-01-15 17:16:40 <xelister> niekie: interested? ;)  30-50 are possiblity I guess
1633 2011-01-15 17:16:44 <Cusipzzz> lol
1634 2011-01-15 17:16:54 <niekie> Haha.
1635 2011-01-15 17:16:54 <dooglus> MJ94: http://freebitcoins.appspot.com/ will
1636 2011-01-15 17:17:16 <Cusipzzz> ^
1637 2011-01-15 17:17:32 <niekie> MJ94: and you can keep that :)
1638 2011-01-15 17:17:42 <Cusipzzz> or send back .03 =)
1639 2011-01-15 17:17:57 <niekie> MJ94: make sure you load then block chain entirely first though :)
1640 2011-01-15 17:18:16 <MJ94> ?
1641 2011-01-15 17:18:24 <dooglus> there seems to be no indication in the client of how many blocks are loaded
1642 2011-01-15 17:18:24 <MJ94> Oops! Rate limit exceeded; please try again in a few hours.
1643 2011-01-15 17:18:45 <niekie> There should be.
1644 2011-01-15 17:18:58 <niekie> Unless you are on a very outdated client.
1645 2011-01-15 17:19:28 <niekie> Actually, no, very outdated clients won't display KHash.
1646 2011-01-15 17:19:28 <dooglus> niekie: I'm using the linux client, version 0.3.19 BETA
1647 2011-01-15 17:19:38 <niekie> Every client should display block count.
1648 2011-01-15 17:19:41 <MJ94> Oops! Rate limit exceeded; please try again in a few hours.
1649 2011-01-15 17:20:04 <dooglus> MJ94: it told me the same, but then I tried again maybe half an hour later and it worked
1650 2011-01-15 17:20:20 <MJ94> Can someone else send me some?
1651 2011-01-15 17:21:44 <xelister> MJ94: what grpahics card do you have?  on radeon 5xxx you can also generate
1652 2011-01-15 17:22:05 <MJ94> Not sure.
1653 2011-01-15 17:22:16 <MJ94> I have a MB Pro. Whatever they have.
1654 2011-01-15 17:22:17 <MJ94> :P
1655 2011-01-15 17:22:31 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: you should buy bitcoins then :)
1656 2011-01-15 17:23:23 <MJ94> I clicked generate coins.
1657 2011-01-15 17:23:51 <luke-jr> dooglus: 'bitcoin' won't necessarily always do business with you
1658 2011-01-15 17:24:49 <luke-jr> MJ94: the builtin miner uses the CPU. it will generated a block of 50 BTC maybe once a couple of years I think
1659 2011-01-15 17:24:52 <Cusipzzz> MJ94: you might have to wait a bit on the generate...
1660 2011-01-15 17:25:21 <dooglus> luke-jr: because they're no 'bitcoin' organisation?
1661 2011-01-15 17:25:47 <luke-jr> dooglus: block generators could refuse you accept transactions
1662 2011-01-15 17:25:59 <luke-jr> dooglus: peers can refuse to talk about them
1663 2011-01-15 17:26:05 <luke-jr> dooglus: both can and DO happen today
1664 2011-01-15 17:26:31 <dooglus> I can generate my own block in that event?
1665 2011-01-15 17:26:39 <luke-jr> for example, non-standard transactions, tx with under 0.01 BTC and no fee
1666 2011-01-15 17:26:58 <luke-jr> dooglus: if you have the GHash/s to do that
1667 2011-01-15 17:27:00 <dooglus> ok, if I don't follow the rules
1668 2011-01-15 17:31:48 davux has left ()
1669 2011-01-15 17:37:28 <newsham> dooglus: no organization, but there's consensus of client software.  and since there's one predominant client, he who writes the client software sets the policy
1670 2011-01-15 17:37:38 <newsham> so in effect, it is centrally planned. :)
1671 2011-01-15 17:37:53 hundfred has joined
1672 2011-01-15 17:38:02 <newsham> ie. if the authors say we cant include messages, we cant.  if they say we can make 0.001btc transactions, we can
1673 2011-01-15 17:38:13 <newsham> unless other client software becomes popular...
1674 2011-01-15 17:38:31 <ArtForz> except when miners and/or nodes disagree
1675 2011-01-15 17:38:38 <newsham> or if the miners get more power :)
1676 2011-01-15 17:39:13 <newsham> who's the largest biggest miner?  slush?
1677 2011-01-15 17:39:23 <newsham> largest biggest.. heh.. must be morning.
1678 2011-01-15 17:39:35 <slush> newsham: heh, I'm working on 'hall of fame' right now
1679 2011-01-15 17:39:38 <ArtForz> nope, still me
1680 2011-01-15 17:39:43 <slush> And he is not in public stats, so I cannot tell you :)
1681 2011-01-15 17:39:57 <ArtForz> 16.5Gh/s, soon quite a bit more
1682 2011-01-15 17:39:59 <slush> newsham: oh, I though you are asking largest miner in pool
1683 2011-01-15 17:41:26 <newsham> art: whats that, around 1000btc/day?
1684 2011-01-15 17:41:50 <ArtForz> 870 at current difficulty
1685 2011-01-15 17:41:54 <ArtForz> err... 900
1686 2011-01-15 17:42:11 <newsham> so $300?
1687 2011-01-15 17:42:30 <newsham> is this infrastructure you bought for this purpose?  or did you have it laying around from other stuff?
1688 2011-01-15 17:42:45 <ArtForz> somewhere around there
1689 2011-01-15 17:42:57 <ArtForz> most of it bought just for mining
1690 2011-01-15 17:43:10 <newsham> have you paid it off yet?
1691 2011-01-15 17:43:16 <ArtForz> yep
1692 2011-01-15 17:43:18 <ArtForz> though I used a bunch of mainboards and PSUs I had floating around
1693 2011-01-15 17:43:48 <newsham> i guess you dont have to pay for heating in winter.  ;-)
1694 2011-01-15 17:44:26 <ArtForz> well, I have to pay for heating anyways, doesnt matter if it's a resistive heater or a bunch of GPUs
1695 2011-01-15 17:44:46 <newsham> sounds like the gpus are paying for themselves
1696 2011-01-15 17:44:57 <ArtForz> they already did
1697 2011-01-15 17:45:15 <newsham> so like I said... :)
1698 2011-01-15 17:45:35 <ArtForz> now I'm working towards paying off the $50k for my first ASIC batch
1699 2011-01-15 17:45:48 <newsham> thats crazy
1700 2011-01-15 17:45:54 <davex__> ah, thought it was $200K
1701 2011-01-15 17:46:12 <ArtForz> 200k for 1000 chips, I only ordered 100
1702 2011-01-15 17:46:14 <newsham> estimate on the ghps for your asic array?
1703 2011-01-15 17:46:20 <davex__> oic
1704 2011-01-15 17:46:24 <newsham> for first 100...
1705 2011-01-15 17:46:24 <ArtForz> 200Mhps per chip
1706 2011-01-15 17:46:45 <newsham> so 16.5G -> 18.5G after asics?
1707 2011-01-15 17:47:00 TD has joined
1708 2011-01-15 17:47:06 HarryS has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1709 2011-01-15 17:47:07 <ArtForz> each chip should be using ~8W
1710 2011-01-15 17:47:08 <newsham> oops, thats for 10. heh
1711 2011-01-15 17:47:16 <newsham> 16.5 -> 36.5
1712 2011-01-15 17:47:30 <ArtForz> so about 10x as power efficient as a 5970
1713 2011-01-15 17:47:43 <molecular> ArtForz: wow!
1714 2011-01-15 17:48:14 <molecular> that's 200$ per chip, right?
1715 2011-01-15 17:48:19 <ArtForz> yep
1716 2011-01-15 17:48:39 <ArtForz> 200/chip for 100, about 30k setup costs
1717 2011-01-15 17:48:50 <newsham> sounds like due to the way bitcoin is structured you're going to get these early adopters (artforz) who can use profits for capital improvement and become very large dominant miners, and can in essence dictate terms of bitcoin, perhaps even cheat.
1718 2011-01-15 17:49:18 <newsham> late comers (who start when difficulty is high) would have a hard time without large up frotn investment cost and risk.
1719 2011-01-15 17:49:24 <ArtForz> if they work I'll probably order a few more 100 and sell my GPUs
1720 2011-01-15 17:49:24 <davex__> nah.  he'll just be really rich.
1721 2011-01-15 17:49:55 <kiba> mining is one way to get rich, but it's not the only activity in the economy
1722 2011-01-15 17:49:56 <newsham> davex: you dont think once he starts getting cheap asics he could potentiallyc heat?
1723 2011-01-15 17:50:02 <ArtForz> cheap?
1724 2011-01-15 17:50:03 <davex__> i don't see how
1725 2011-01-15 17:50:05 <newsham> cheat
1726 2011-01-15 17:50:15 <ArtForz> it's still about on par with 5970 for Mh/$
1727 2011-01-15 17:50:16 <molecular> artforz: your drawing around 10kW currently with your 32 gpus?
1728 2011-01-15 17:50:17 <davex__> without undermining the basis for his wealth
1729 2011-01-15 17:50:23 <ArtForz> a bit under 9kW
1730 2011-01-15 17:50:54 <ArtForz> and I dont look forward to having 9kW of electric heating in the house in summer
1731 2011-01-15 17:51:11 <newsham> time to invest in solar air conditioning
1732 2011-01-15 17:51:41 <molecular> doing same rate with your asics will be below 1kW?
1733 2011-01-15 17:51:45 <ArtForz> yep
1734 2011-01-15 17:51:54 <molecular> ArtForz: dude, that's awesome
1735 2011-01-15 17:52:05 <molecular> also: I might decide to not get into the mining business ;)
1736 2011-01-15 17:52:21 <ArtForz> I should also be able to get a lot higher hashrate density
1737 2011-01-15 17:52:33 <molecular> what's hashrate density?
1738 2011-01-15 17:52:36 <molecular> per volume?
1739 2011-01-15 17:52:39 <ArtForz> yep
1740 2011-01-15 17:52:41 <molecular> ah
1741 2011-01-15 17:52:47 <ArtForz> or per rackmount U
1742 2011-01-15 17:52:57 <ArtForz> which is effectively the same thing
1743 2011-01-15 17:53:12 <molecular> did I understand you correctly: you accidentally order 1000 instead of 100 asics?
1744 2011-01-15 17:53:16 <ArtForz> no
1745 2011-01-15 17:53:21 <ArtForz> I originally planned to order 1000
1746 2011-01-15 17:53:30 <edcba> and only got 100 ?
1747 2011-01-15 17:53:32 <ArtForz> but later decided to only take 100 for the initial run
1748 2011-01-15 17:53:38 <edcba> ok
1749 2011-01-15 17:53:56 <newsham> do you have blogs about this stuff?
1750 2011-01-15 17:54:00 <ArtForz> nope
1751 2011-01-15 17:54:06 <ArtForz> as if I screwed up the design somewhere, I'll only have 50k worth of scrap silicon
1752 2011-01-15 17:54:09 <newsham> you should.  people would enjoy geeking out over details
1753 2011-01-15 17:54:22 <molecular> I understand
1754 2011-01-15 17:54:30 <newsham> do the asic design tools have simulation test tools?
1755 2011-01-15 17:54:34 <ArtForz> yes
1756 2011-01-15 17:54:42 <ArtForz> but you know how it is with simulations
1757 2011-01-15 17:54:47 <newsham> *nod*
1758 2011-01-15 17:54:59 <edcba> it's better when real ! :)
1759 2011-01-15 17:55:00 <ArtForz> especially as I'm running pretty close to the lowest allowable core voltage
1760 2011-01-15 17:55:20 <molecular> what exactly did you put on one asic?
1761 2011-01-15 17:55:37 <ArtForz> pretty much 2 fully pipelined sha2 engines
1762 2011-01-15 17:55:40 <davex__> artforz: did you look into FPGA implementation instead at all?
1763 2011-01-15 17:55:45 <ArtForz> yes
1764 2011-01-15 17:55:55 <molecular> nice!
1765 2011-01-15 17:56:19 <davex__> artforz: not worth it?  or better than gpu?
1766 2011-01-15 17:56:19 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2362.msg33869#msg33869
1767 2011-01-15 17:56:21 <molecular> how do you set the asics up?
1768 2011-01-15 17:56:35 <davex__> artforz: thanks
1769 2011-01-15 17:57:26 <newsham> art: whats the mining value been like over time?  as btc value has gone up at the same time as mining difficulty
1770 2011-01-15 17:57:38 <ArtForz> each ASIC is on it's own 36x36mm carrier PCB, plugged into a backplane with simple 0.1" pin headers, backplane has 16 engine PCBs, controller FPGA and 2 VRM modules
1771 2011-01-15 17:57:56 <ArtForz> whole backplane module is 160x80x40mm
1772 2011-01-15 17:58:05 <newsham> also are you keeping a large stock of btc or liquidating most as you get them?
1773 2011-01-15 17:58:17 <ArtForz> idea is to stack 2 high and put 80mm fans in front
1774 2011-01-15 17:58:36 <ArtForz> I kept about 15%
1775 2011-01-15 17:58:47 <ArtForz> ~40kBTC currently
1776 2011-01-15 17:59:14 <ArtForz> I'll probably keep on selling 80% of daily production or so
1777 2011-01-15 17:59:25 AAA_awright_ has joined
1778 2011-01-15 18:00:10 <molecular> who is buying all these? people speculating? I don't understand where the demand stems from?
1779 2011-01-15 18:00:22 <ArtForz> I'd guess so
1780 2011-01-15 18:00:45 <edcba> offer comes from ArtForz certainly
1781 2011-01-15 18:00:52 <edcba> now who is buying...
1782 2011-01-15 18:01:07 <molecular> I was thinking of either buying 1 (!!) gpu and a psu and mabo _or_ some BTC for same amount
1783 2011-01-15 18:01:24 <molecular> maybe people like me deciding to bet on rising btc value?
1784 2011-01-15 18:02:09 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1785 2011-01-15 18:02:22 <molecular> As I see it now (hearing about ArtForzs asic approach for the first time), it doesn't seem I'm standing any chance with my little GPU
1786 2011-01-15 18:02:39 <newsham> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral
1787 2011-01-15 18:02:41 <molecular> That will drive the difficulty to insance levels ;)
1788 2011-01-15 18:02:52 <ArtForz> I doubt it
1789 2011-01-15 18:03:12 <ArtForz> I suspect people wont like the hardware cost for a finished system
1790 2011-01-15 18:03:34 <newsham> artforz: but the people (like you) who do, will make enough money for constant capital improvements.
1791 2011-01-15 18:03:41 <newsham> like I said earlier.  :)
1792 2011-01-15 18:03:45 <ArtForz> the prices board houses charge for assembly are fucking crazy
1793 2011-01-15 18:03:46 <newsham> the pros will eventually drive out the rest
1794 2011-01-15 18:03:52 <molecular> once you roll out your 1000 asics, you'll be generating > 50% of the coins
1795 2011-01-15 18:04:03 puddinpop has quit ()
1796 2011-01-15 18:04:41 <ArtForz> *checks* yup, I'd be something like 3/5 of the network
1797 2011-01-15 18:05:08 <davex__> but then you'd get all the generated coins, wouldn't you?
1798 2011-01-15 18:05:14 <ThomasV> that's dangerous for bitcoin if you control 3/5
1799 2011-01-15 18:05:18 <newsham> i guess it comes down to how the mining value changes over time.  on the one hand difficulty is going up fast, but on the other hand, BTC is apreciating against the dollar
1800 2011-01-15 18:05:18 <ArtForz> in cartel mode, yes
1801 2011-01-15 18:05:33 <newsham> thomasv: thats what I said :)
1802 2011-01-15 18:05:53 <ArtForz> once a mienr (or a bucnh of collaborating miners) get > 50%, they can claim all generation and block transactions from getting into the chain
1803 2011-01-15 18:05:54 <molecular> on the other hand: if all the gamers start mining (some hype might happen), artforz's asics dont look so good any more
1804 2011-01-15 18:05:57 <ThomasV> newsham: it also poses a security problem
1805 2011-01-15 18:06:08 <newsham> thomasv: and I think more importantly, a few large pro-miners is probably the natural long term state of a bitcoin-like network.
1806 2011-01-15 18:06:15 <newsham> thomasv: thats what I said! :)
1807 2011-01-15 18:06:20 <Cusipzzz> fortunately the market tends to respond in situations like this.. Artforz2 will not be far behind if Artforz is making big money.
1808 2011-01-15 18:06:21 AAA_awright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1809 2011-01-15 18:06:30 <ThomasV> newsham: ok :-)
1810 2011-01-15 18:06:44 <ArtForz> well, if you're in antarctica and stuck with electric heating, GPU mining will always make sense :)
1811 2011-01-15 18:06:48 <newsham> cusipzz: there's a large capital investment.  i think probably one or two large miners is going to be the steady state
1812 2011-01-15 18:06:54 <davex__> haha
1813 2011-01-15 18:07:05 <molecular> ArtForz: is that your plan? take over btc and therefor kill it? can't be, right?
1814 2011-01-15 18:07:10 <ArtForz> nah
1815 2011-01-15 18:07:22 <newsham> molecule: he's just responding to economic incentives.
1816 2011-01-15 18:07:26 <Cusipzzz> newsham: so? if profit is there, people will commit capital asap
1817 2011-01-15 18:07:27 <newsham> with rational behavior
1818 2011-01-15 18:07:39 <ArtForz> I prefer to add hashrate slowly to stay at 15-25% of total network
1819 2011-01-15 18:07:53 <davex__> i don't think the >50% monopoly was by design, though.
1820 2011-01-15 18:08:08 <molecular> good ;)
1821 2011-01-15 18:08:08 <newsham> cusipzzz: not necessarily.  they're competing for limited resources, and each new startup has increasing risk and decreasing profits.
1822 2011-01-15 18:08:17 <davex__> so kind of unfortunate imo
1823 2011-01-15 18:08:20 <newsham> cusipzzz: it encourages monopoly
1824 2011-01-15 18:08:22 <ArtForz> it simply doesnt make much economic sense to grow beyond 33% or so
1825 2011-01-15 18:08:35 <davex__> artforz: huh?  why not
1826 2011-01-15 18:08:40 <ArtForz> you're effectively competing against yourself
1827 2011-01-15 18:08:49 ApertureScience is now known as Aperture-Science
1828 2011-01-15 18:09:02 <Cusipzzz> newsham: limited or not, if profit is there, they will come
1829 2011-01-15 18:09:20 AAA_awright has joined
1830 2011-01-15 18:09:25 <newsham> cusipzzz: yup, like I said.. a few pros.
1831 2011-01-15 18:09:45 <davex__> artforz: why does that matter?  it would be like having a monopoly on all gold mines.
1832 2011-01-15 18:09:52 <Cusipzzz> a few pros is better than one
1833 2011-01-15 18:09:53 <ArtForz> except you dont
1834 2011-01-15 18:10:09 <ArtForz> lets say rest of network is 100Gh/s, you add 10, you're 9.1% of total, you add 50, you're 33.3% of total
1835 2011-01-15 18:10:13 <newsham> what artforz is not counting on is that once he has large monopoly, he will be able to extract nice transaction fees if he so desires :)
1836 2011-01-15 18:10:36 <ArtForz> so ~ 3.5x payout for 5x the hardware
1837 2011-01-15 18:10:51 Sthebig has joined
1838 2011-01-15 18:11:19 Aperture-Science is now known as Toadyonps3
1839 2011-01-15 18:11:25 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1840 2011-01-15 18:11:28 <molecular> what do you guys think is better: build a 535MHash miner (700€) and mine or buy 2500BTC (700€) ?
1841 2011-01-15 18:11:36 <davex__> artforz: yeah true...  i guess it's also not reasonable to assume when you get to 50% everyone else will just give up, also.
1842 2011-01-15 18:11:43 <ArtForz> yep
1843 2011-01-15 18:12:00 <ArtForz> and a mining cartel is really really obvious
1844 2011-01-15 18:12:19 <davex__> because you get lots of simultaneous solutions submitted?
1845 2011-01-15 18:12:31 <davex__> (i'm assuming that's how it works)
1846 2011-01-15 18:12:36 <ArtForz> that and nobody else suddenly gets blocks
1847 2011-01-15 18:12:39 <newsham> although I guess the biggest "threat" (ie. decrease in value due to large increase in difficulty) is going ot be botnets.
1848 2011-01-15 18:12:40 <davex__> ya
1849 2011-01-15 18:12:50 <newsham> if someone is basically getting free mhps, its hard to compete with that
1850 2011-01-15 18:12:51 <davex__> but there's nothing really wrong with running such a cartel, is there?
1851 2011-01-15 18:13:28 <molecular> wont the existence of a cartel lower trust in the currency a lot?
1852 2011-01-15 18:13:38 <ArtForz> depends
1853 2011-01-15 18:13:47 <newsham> and it wouldnt be very hard to get a large botnet that dwarfs current mining.
1854 2011-01-15 18:14:01 <ArtForz> errr... I wouldnt be too sure
1855 2011-01-15 18:14:07 <newsham> interesting point -- btc mining puts a lower bound on the value of a botnet host.
1856 2011-01-15 18:14:09 <Cusipzzz> newsham: so get 1. break it. and then a better one will be built.
1857 2011-01-15 18:14:20 npouillard has joined
1858 2011-01-15 18:14:22 <newsham> cusipzzz: i'm not into breaking the law.
1859 2011-01-15 18:14:34 <Cusipzzz> if anyone thinks the current btc network is end-state, you ae nuts.
1860 2011-01-15 18:14:39 <newsham> or stealing peopls electricity and cpu
1861 2011-01-15 18:15:02 <ArtForz> we're ~140Ghps now, using 100% CPU you'll need about 70k zombies
1862 2011-01-15 18:15:26 <newsham> http://www.securelist.com/en/analysis/204792068/The_economics_of_Botnets
1863 2011-01-15 18:15:32 <Cusipzzz> it's a great start, but it will be broken/fail at some point, be it botnet, rogue miners, someone at google playing a prank, you name it. BTC 2 will be much stronge
1864 2011-01-15 18:15:34 <Cusipzzz> r
1865 2011-01-15 18:15:45 <ArtForz> those arent free, and by using 100% CPU you'll lose em a lot more quickly than normal
1866 2011-01-15 18:16:20 <newsham> *nod* agreed
1867 2011-01-15 18:16:32 AAA_awright_ has joined
1868 2011-01-15 18:16:45 <newsham> you'd probably aim to use them during idle periods if you wanted to keep them as long as possible
1869 2011-01-15 18:17:04 <newsham> if you were really sophisticated, you might include temperature detection and throttling
1870 2011-01-15 18:17:20 <molecular> how many high-end gpus are currently sold? if bitcoin becomes a hype somehow and joe schmoe (10% of highend-gpu-owners) start mining... that is a bigger threat than a botnet
1871 2011-01-15 18:17:35 <ArtForz> why is that a threat?
1872 2011-01-15 18:17:41 <newsham> mole: its already a slashdot hype :)
1873 2011-01-15 18:18:01 <newsham> "threat" to value by rapidly increasing the difficulty.
1874 2011-01-15 18:18:04 <ArtForz> as long as they aren't collaborating, 1000s of miners only help to strengthen the network
1875 2011-01-15 18:18:06 <newsham> not the bad kind of "threat"
1876 2011-01-15 18:18:07 <molecular> "<newsham> although I guess the biggest "threat" (ie. decrease in value due to large increase in difficulty) is going ot be botnets."
1877 2011-01-15 18:18:19 <newsham> the good kinda threat :)
1878 2011-01-15 18:18:37 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1879 2011-01-15 18:18:45 <molecular> yeah, the "good distributed" kind of threat
1880 2011-01-15 18:18:50 <newsham> although large increase in user base might just increase the value of btc by the same amount
1881 2011-01-15 18:18:54 <newsham> or more.
1882 2011-01-15 18:18:58 <ArtForz> we only need another order of magnitude or so and even a large botnet isn't much of a threat
1883 2011-01-15 18:19:11 <ArtForz> we'd then also be bigger than Folding@Home ...
1884 2011-01-15 18:19:13 <newsham> art: have you kept any stats on difficulty vs. $/BTC?
1885 2011-01-15 18:19:20 <ArtForz> nope
1886 2011-01-15 18:19:30 <molecular> 1THash/s network performance, artforz?
1887 2011-01-15 18:19:36 <ArtForz> yep
1888 2011-01-15 18:19:37 <ArtForz> but that should be easy, bitcoincharts has historic market data
1889 2011-01-15 18:19:49 <ArtForz> and several sites have historic difficulty
1890 2011-01-15 18:20:04 <newsham> historic difficulty is easy to get (from blockchain)
1891 2011-01-15 18:20:07 <newsham> i already have that
1892 2011-01-15 18:20:08 <ArtForz> yep
1893 2011-01-15 18:20:25 <newsham> anyway, i should get offline for a bit.. cheers
1894 2011-01-15 18:22:32 <ArtForz> wait, bitcoinwatch.com had historic market data
1895 2011-01-15 18:22:39 <ArtForz> *has
1896 2011-01-15 18:23:36 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1897 2011-01-15 18:23:41 edcba has joined
1898 2011-01-15 18:24:06 <niekie> slush: thanks for implementing my feature request :)
1899 2011-01-15 18:24:56 <slush> niekie: ;)
1900 2011-01-15 18:25:28 <niekie> slush: I have some GPU miners in the pool now :)
1901 2011-01-15 18:25:35 <niekie> But with not that good performance ;)
1902 2011-01-15 18:25:59 <niekie> 5500+ Khash/s and 3400+ Khash/s
1903 2011-01-15 18:26:19 <slush> nevermind, it also counts :)
1904 2011-01-15 18:26:27 <niekie> :)
1905 2011-01-15 18:26:52 <niekie> It did increase my average reward per block :)
1906 2011-01-15 18:28:44 <niekie> I'm only around 2 days in the pool now though, so it's too early to get a good average :)
1907 2011-01-15 18:29:01 <npouillard> I'm looking at the GPU-miner code (poclbm/BitcoinMiner.cl) and it looks like the nonce variable is unused?
1908 2011-01-15 18:29:08 <slush> everytime you add new worker, your daily reward on graph page should rise a little
1909 2011-01-15 18:29:40 <niekie> Technically I could add a few more workers.
1910 2011-01-15 18:29:44 dduane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1911 2011-01-15 18:29:50 <niekie> They would be netbooks though without any real GPU :P
1912 2011-01-15 18:29:57 <niekie> And probably horrible performance :D
1913 2011-01-15 18:29:58 <slush> I think it is worthless
1914 2011-01-15 18:30:17 <niekie> Well, I'm not paying for power :P
1915 2011-01-15 18:30:24 <niekie> Not for usage anyway.
1916 2011-01-15 18:30:37 <slush> oh, it change things a little
1917 2011-01-15 18:30:55 <niekie> And it gets my room temperature a bit nicer in the winter days :)
1918 2011-01-15 18:31:00 <dsg> So, when a node initially bootstraps with an empty blockchain, does it wait for the first inv message, do a getdata(hash from inv), getdata(hashPrevBlock), etc. until they reach the genesis block, or is there a more efficient way to request bulk blocks?
1919 2011-01-15 18:31:58 <ArtForz> errr... no
1920 2011-01-15 18:32:21 <molecular> npouilard: BitcoinMiner.cl line 79:	work[3]=nonce;
1921 2011-01-15 18:32:23 <ArtForz> iirc it uses getblocks(genesis, 0) to get a list of the first 500 block hashes from a peer
1922 2011-01-15 18:32:44 <molecular> npouillard: BitcoinMiner.cl line 79: work[3]=nonce;
1923 2011-01-15 18:32:46 <ArtForz> uses getdata(list of block hashes) to get those blocks
1924 2011-01-15 18:32:57 <npouillard> molecular: thanks
1925 2011-01-15 18:33:00 Prof_BiG_BanG has quit (Changing host)
1926 2011-01-15 18:33:00 Prof_BiG_BanG has joined
1927 2011-01-15 18:33:08 <ArtForz> then fires off a getblocks(last block hash received, 0) to get 500 more block hashes
1928 2011-01-15 18:33:31 <ArtForz> repeat until you have all blocks
1929 2011-01-15 18:33:40 <npouillard> molecular: strange vim behavior when I was looking for nonce using '*'
1930 2011-01-15 18:33:45 <dsg> Ok thanks, hadn't seen getblocks. That explains it. :)
1931 2011-01-15 18:33:51 <ArtForz> same method is used by a node connecting after being shut down for a while to quickly catch up on the block chain
1932 2011-01-15 18:34:02 <dsg> Hm, much better protocol specification on the new wiki.
1933 2011-01-15 18:34:20 <molecular> npoulliard: was going to say something about vim, but lets not start editor wars here ;)
1934 2011-01-15 18:34:28 <ArtForz> of course you could simply wait for a new block to be found and request hPrevBlock until you ended up at genesis
1935 2011-01-15 18:34:41 <dsg> Yeah, but it's inefficient and slow
1936 2011-01-15 18:34:43 <molecular> npouillard: damn, your name is hard to type for me
1937 2011-01-15 18:34:46 <ArtForz> yep
1938 2011-01-15 18:34:48 <npouillard> molecular: thx for avoid this indeed
1939 2011-01-15 18:34:56 <ArtForz> you'd incur 2*network latency for every block
1940 2011-01-15 18:35:12 <npouillard> molecular: don't you have completion?
1941 2011-01-15 18:35:12 <ArtForz> this way you only need 2*network latency for 500 blocks
1942 2011-01-15 18:35:34 <ArtForz> though it kinda sucks if your node picks a particvularly slow/distant peer for initial block download
1943 2011-01-15 18:35:37 <molecular> npouillard, yes I do, and thanks to you, I now know this! cool!
1944 2011-01-15 18:36:34 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1945 2011-01-15 18:40:31 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1946 2011-01-15 18:41:40 <kiba> man, gene is weak
1947 2011-01-15 18:41:46 <kiba> slaughterhouse
1948 2011-01-15 18:42:07 <kiba> however truth isn't about who have the best arguments
1949 2011-01-15 18:42:31 <molecular> ArtForz: how long roughly until you have 100 asics up and running?
1950 2011-01-15 18:43:06 <ArtForz> I'll get em mid feb, probably late feb/early mar
1951 2011-01-15 18:45:52 <npouillard> BTW, my original issue is a 100% CPU usage, but I'm using the right device (getting 230Mhash/s)
1952 2011-01-15 18:46:28 <kiba> man, the download market is stagnating
1953 2011-01-15 18:46:55 puddinpop has joined
1954 2011-01-15 18:47:12 larsivi has joined
1955 2011-01-15 18:47:16 <molecular> ArtForz: "whole backplane module is 160x80x40mm"
1956 2011-01-15 18:47:25 <molecular> that's excluding the asic carrier pcbs, right?
1957 2011-01-15 18:47:44 <ArtForz> nope
1958 2011-01-15 18:47:57 <molecular> then that's quite space-efficient
1959 2011-01-15 18:48:14 <ArtForz> they sit on the backplane at a right angle
1960 2011-01-15 18:48:46 <molecular> is that a standard-setup from the manufacturer?
1961 2011-01-15 18:48:50 <ArtForz> nop
1962 2011-01-15 18:48:53 <ArtForz> all my design
1963 2011-01-15 18:48:58 <ArtForz> so from the side backplane + carrier PCBs look a bit like a comb
1964 2011-01-15 18:49:06 <molecular> I'd love to see pictures once you have assembled one
1965 2011-01-15 18:49:27 <ArtForz> I also had to improvise in some areas
1966 2011-01-15 18:49:29 * npouillard have to go, will investigate later
1967 2011-01-15 18:49:35 <molecular> and then you'll assemble some of these into one case?
1968 2011-01-15 18:49:38 <ArtForz> yep
1969 2011-01-15 18:49:53 <molecular> how many?
1970 2011-01-15 18:50:00 <ArtForz> not too sure yet
1971 2011-01-15 18:50:13 <molecular> and one case will have a psu?
1972 2011-01-15 18:50:16 <ArtForz> yep
1973 2011-01-15 18:50:21 <ArtForz> one AC->12V PSU
1974 2011-01-15 18:50:22 <molecular> that's awesome
1975 2011-01-15 18:51:03 <ArtForz> each module has it's own 12V -> 1.0V DC-DC for core and a 12V->3.3V for I/O
1976 2011-01-15 18:51:24 <molecular> those asics run on 1V?
1977 2011-01-15 18:51:27 <ArtForz> yup
1978 2011-01-15 18:51:34 <ArtForz> well, 1.0 - 1.3
1979 2011-01-15 18:51:45 <ArtForz> 1.2 is nominal
1980 2011-01-15 18:52:01 <ArtForz> I'm running em at lowest possible core to increase efficiency
1981 2011-01-15 18:52:20 <molecular> power-efficiency
1982 2011-01-15 18:52:22 <molecular> ?
1983 2011-01-15 18:52:25 <ArtForz> yep
1984 2011-01-15 18:52:56 <ArtForz> at 1.2Vcore I'd be closer to 15W/chip, which kinda gets REALLY hard to cool
1985 2011-01-15 18:52:57 <molecular> 8W*16 = 128 + 20 (fpga/io) = 150W per unit
1986 2011-01-15 18:52:59 <molecular> ?
1987 2011-01-15 18:53:10 MJ94 has left ("Please follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/MJack94 - thank you!")
1988 2011-01-15 18:53:22 <ArtForz> a bit lower, the control FPGA only needs like 3W
1989 2011-01-15 18:54:12 <ArtForz> it's really not doing much besides translating between ethernet frames and the synchronous serial protocol used for the ASICs
1990 2011-01-15 18:54:17 <molecular> and you're putting x of them in a 3U case?
1991 2011-01-15 18:54:17 <molecular> or higher?
1992 2011-01-15 18:54:26 <molecular> so the fpga does all the io?
1993 2011-01-15 18:54:32 <ArtForz> yep
1994 2011-01-15 18:54:50 <ArtForz> it only has 10Mbit ethernet externally
1995 2011-01-15 18:55:07 <ArtForz> well, technically 10/100, but I'm a cheap bastard and using 10Mbps magnetics
1996 2011-01-15 18:55:41 <molecular> you do the hash-filtering on the fpga, right, so traffic wont be high anyway
1997 2011-01-15 18:55:51 <ArtForz> the ASICs themselves do that
1998 2011-01-15 18:56:04 <molecular> allright, so not just sha
1999 2011-01-15 18:56:10 <molecular> of course, makes mcuh more sense
2000 2011-01-15 18:56:25 <ArtForz> they just report back H==0 nonces in bitcoin mode
2001 2011-01-15 18:56:37 <molecular> what else do you plan on doing with them?
2002 2011-01-15 18:57:26 <ArtForz> well, they can also do PBKDF2-HMAC-SHA256
2003 2011-01-15 18:57:40 <ArtForz> only small problem, nobody uses that for anything :P
2004 2011-01-15 18:58:11 * molecular is clueless and googling
2005 2011-01-15 18:58:55 <ArtForz> and you can use em (kinda slowly...) as generic sha2 engines
2006 2011-01-15 18:59:22 <ArtForz> the serial link is only 400Mbps
2007 2011-01-15 19:00:00 <ArtForz> the engine could do > 100Gbit/s
2008 2011-01-15 19:00:19 <molecular> the serial link asic <-> fpga?
2009 2011-01-15 19:00:23 <ArtForz> yep
2010 2011-01-15 19:00:49 <molecular> so that would be a waste to use them like this
2011 2011-01-15 19:01:07 <ArtForz> yep
2012 2011-01-15 19:01:34 <ArtForz> it's more for debugging than anything else
2013 2011-01-15 19:01:42 <molecular> I see
2014 2011-01-15 19:01:52 <molecular> so your primary use is of course mining?
2015 2011-01-15 19:01:59 <ArtForz> yep
2016 2011-01-15 19:02:42 <ArtForz> = I can load initial A..H and W[0..15], run the engine in feedback mode for 1000 blocks or so, see if I get the right result back out
2017 2011-01-15 19:03:08 <ArtForz> should come in pretty useful for testing clock limits
2018 2011-01-15 19:03:16 <molecular> in feedback mode it spits out all result?
2019 2011-01-15 19:03:20 <ArtForz> nope
2020 2011-01-15 19:03:33 <ArtForz> internally feeds back final A..H into the engine
2021 2011-01-15 19:03:45 <ArtForz> = it does sha256(sha256(sha256(...
2022 2011-01-15 19:03:46 <molecular> ah, I see
2023 2011-01-15 19:03:56 <molecular> for testing
2024 2011-01-15 19:04:22 <ArtForz> so I can load values where I know the result and see how high I can clock it before I get errors
2025 2011-01-15 19:04:30 <molecular> allright
2026 2011-01-15 19:04:52 <molecular> will you do the clocking differently per module?
2027 2011-01-15 19:05:07 <molecular> or will the all be able to do the same speed?
2028 2011-01-15 19:05:19 <ArtForz> all same speed I hope
2029 2011-01-15 19:05:40 <molecular> otherwise you could batch them up and adjust V or clock per module...
2030 2011-01-15 19:05:46 Guest36691 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2031 2011-01-15 19:05:52 <ArtForz> yeah
2032 2011-01-15 19:05:56 <ArtForz> current design has shared clock for all chips in a module
2033 2011-01-15 19:06:13 <ArtForz> but I guess you could speed bin em and sort em into modules
2034 2011-01-15 19:06:17 <molecular> you'll have >= 7 modules even with only 100 asics
2035 2011-01-15 19:06:25 <ArtForz> yep
2036 2011-01-15 19:06:33 <ArtForz> errr... 6
2037 2011-01-15 19:06:36 <molecular> uh, yeah
2038 2011-01-15 19:06:53 <molecular> and 4 leftover ;)
2039 2011-01-15 19:06:57 <ArtForz> yep
2040 2011-01-15 19:07:32 <ArtForz> 4% loss isn't exactly much for electronics manufacturing
2041 2011-01-15 19:07:44 <molecular> ok
2042 2011-01-15 19:07:47 <ArtForz> especially if you're doing reflow soldering with a hacked toaster oven
2043 2011-01-15 19:08:16 <molecular> !! ok, I'd love to keep talking, thanks for all that info. I'm off to having some beers now...
2044 2011-01-15 19:09:12 james has joined
2045 2011-01-15 19:09:39 james is now known as Guest99481
2046 2011-01-15 19:15:46 <Cusipzzz> a 1 sec block? 102848/102849?
2047 2011-01-15 19:16:01 <Cusipzzz> 3 blocks in 2 mins?
2048 2011-01-15 19:16:12 <Cusipzzz> hm
2049 2011-01-15 19:16:17 <ArtForz> hmm?
2050 2011-01-15 19:16:23 <Cusipzzz> seems fast, no?
2051 2011-01-15 19:16:38 <kiba> Hero Members and Junior Gene
2052 2011-01-15 19:16:39 <kiba> lol
2053 2011-01-15 19:16:40 <ArtForz> nah, pretty normal
2054 2011-01-15 19:17:07 <Cusipzzz> k, thx. waited 20 mins for 847, then freeked out when i got 849 nearly right away
2055 2011-01-15 19:18:01 <ArtForz> I got 2 blocks within 30 sec
2056 2011-01-15 19:18:13 <ArtForz> randomness can be... random
2057 2011-01-15 19:18:15 <molecular> 10 minutes have 600 seconds, so the chance of getting the block in the 1st second is 1/600. so that should happen roughly every 3-4 days?
2058 2011-01-15 19:18:23 <ArtForz> errr .no
2059 2011-01-15 19:18:31 <ArtForz> see poisson distribution
2060 2011-01-15 19:18:52 <andrew12> http://xkcd.com/12/
2061 2011-01-15 19:18:52 <Cusipzzz> now i'm hungry
2062 2011-01-15 19:19:46 * molecular will read up to that _after_ having some beers
2063 2011-01-15 19:19:47 <Cusipzzz> maybe use block times as seed for pseudo RNG ?
2064 2011-01-15 19:19:53 <ArtForz> simplest explanation: it's skewed towards short intervals as a block could theoretically take a infinite amount of time
2065 2011-01-15 19:20:21 <andrew12> Cusipzzz: you may as well completely leave out 'psuedo', because there's no such thing as truly random numbers :p
2066 2011-01-15 19:20:38 <andrew12> pseudo*
2067 2011-01-15 19:20:44 <ArtForz> I got a quantum RNG here ...
2068 2011-01-15 19:20:47 <Cusipzzz> sure there are. just hard to prove :)
2069 2011-01-15 19:20:54 <ArtForz> (yes, hardware)
2070 2011-01-15 19:21:08 <ArtForz> of course it's impossible to prove its output is truly random
2071 2011-01-15 19:21:10 <Cusipzzz> isotope decay, mixed radio noise
2072 2011-01-15 19:21:18 <ArtForz> diode shot noise
2073 2011-01-15 19:21:27 <molecular> god doesn't roll dice (einstein)
2074 2011-01-15 19:21:42 <ArtForz> but he sure likes flipping coins :P
2075 2011-01-15 19:21:46 <molecular> lol
2076 2011-01-15 19:21:55 <TD> ArtForz: you're actually going to get some bitcoin asics fabbed?
2077 2011-01-15 19:22:08 <ArtForz> I should really write a FAQ
2078 2011-01-15 19:22:16 <ArtForz> I already ordered em in december
2079 2011-01-15 19:22:17 <molecular> you should have a blog or something
2080 2011-01-15 19:22:47 <TD> impressive
2081 2011-01-15 19:23:02 <ArtForz> using metal defined structured ASIC, as I dont have the $ to get a standard cell ASIC fabbed
2082 2011-01-15 19:23:20 <TD> what's the minimum run size you can do with that type of asic?
2083 2011-01-15 19:23:31 <ArtForz> 1
2084 2011-01-15 19:23:41 <ArtForz> it'd be hella expensive, but you can do it
2085 2011-01-15 19:23:49 <TD> hmm. i had no idea that was even possible.
2086 2011-01-15 19:23:57 <ArtForz> set up costs are ~30k for the process I'm using
2087 2011-01-15 19:23:58 <andrew12> random.org uses atmospheric noise
2088 2011-01-15 19:24:03 <TD> you did all the design and synthesis yourself?
2089 2011-01-15 19:24:15 <ArtForz> yep
2090 2011-01-15 19:24:27 <ArtForz> well, the guys at the mfg do the physical synthesis
2091 2011-01-15 19:24:31 <TD> are you a professional chip designer by any chance, or is this just a  hobby?
2092 2011-01-15 19:24:37 <ArtForz> hobby
2093 2011-01-15 19:24:45 <TD> ah ok. so you ship them vhdl or something and they send you back the finished chips?
2094 2011-01-15 19:24:57 <ArtForz> yep
2095 2011-01-15 19:25:02 <ArtForz> last chip I designed was a on 1.5um process back in university
2096 2011-01-15 19:25:38 <ArtForz> structured ASIC is pretty cool
2097 2011-01-15 19:25:55 <TD> yeah, very cool stuff.
2098 2011-01-15 19:26:49 <TD> will you be keeping the VHDL to yourself or open sourcing it?
2099 2011-01-15 19:26:49 <ArtForz> you have LUTs and FFs like a FPGA, just with the whole routing matrix replaced with hardwiring things in the metal layers
2100 2011-01-15 19:27:12 <TD> so it's an easy step up from FPGA development then, if you have the money for it
2101 2011-01-15 19:27:12 HarryS has joined
2102 2011-01-15 19:27:27 <ArtForz> shrug, anyone with half a brain can code a simple pipelined SHA256 core in VHDL
2103 2011-01-15 19:27:38 dduane has joined
2104 2011-01-15 19:27:47 <TD> fair enough
2105 2011-01-15 19:28:01 <ArtForz> I really havent done anything special
2106 2011-01-15 19:28:07 <ArtForz> well, I checked the literature
2107 2011-01-15 19:28:37 <ArtForz> interesting part, using stuff like carry-save adders didnt help me at all
2108 2011-01-15 19:28:45 <TD> i think just showing it can be done by one guy who isn't a corporation is useful. i had no idea it was possible for hobbyists to go beyond FPGAs at home. this is definitely a good development even if in the short term it means you end up dominating the network.
2109 2011-01-15 19:28:48 <ArtForz> the hardwired ripple-carry adders are faster
2110 2011-01-15 19:29:19 <andrew12> ;;roll 1d2
2111 2011-01-15 19:29:20 <gribble> Error: "roll" is not a valid command.
2112 2011-01-15 19:29:22 <andrew12> aww
2113 2011-01-15 19:29:26 <TD> the best way bitcoin can outpace botnets over the long term is by tipping the numbers with specialist hardware
2114 2011-01-15 19:29:31 <andrew12> ;;list games
2115 2011-01-15 19:29:32 <gribble> coin, dice, eightball, monologue, and roulette
2116 2011-01-15 19:29:35 <andrew12> oh
2117 2011-01-15 19:29:38 <andrew12> ;;dice 1d2
2118 2011-01-15 19:29:39 <gribble> Error: Dice can't have fewer than 3 sides.
2119 2011-01-15 19:29:46 <ArtForz> wtf?
2120 2011-01-15 19:29:52 <andrew12> last i checked dice can't have 3 sides
2121 2011-01-15 19:30:00 <andrew12> ;;dice 100d100
2122 2011-01-15 19:30:01 <gribble> 4, 37, 26, 34, 89, 75, 10, 78, 41, 22, 44, 4, 87, 67, 52, 75, 52, 36, 45, 45, 81, 76, 86, 42, 12, 86, 74, 65, 11, 53, 99, 21, 23, 95, 57, 76, 22, 5, 3, 36, 21, 44, 42, 23, 64, 84, 70, 90, 50, 38, 31, 77, 14, 43, 93, 54, 91, 60, 17, 13, 25, 13, 56, 95, 24, 5, 57, 47, 68, 10, 7, 7, 5, 6, 40, 38, 7, 58, 61, 15, 60, 4, 57, 62, 11, 9, 6, 83, 8, 63, 15, 96, 15, 76, 42, 13, 14, 15, 10, and 33
2123 2011-01-15 19:30:01 <ArtForz> they can
2124 2011-01-15 19:30:07 <molecular> a coin is 2-sided dice
2125 2011-01-15 19:30:09 <andrew12> fake dice can
2126 2011-01-15 19:30:19 <andrew12> you can roll a 1 sided die
2127 2011-01-15 19:30:20 <andrew12> lol
2128 2011-01-15 19:30:26 <Cusipzzz> bot gives lotto numbers now? lol
2129 2011-01-15 19:30:29 <ArtForz> a coin has 3 sides
2130 2011-01-15 19:30:47 <andrew12> ;;dice 10d10
2131 2011-01-15 19:30:48 <gribble> 10, 8, 8, 1, 2, 7, 2, 4, 5, and 10
2132 2011-01-15 19:30:51 <molecular> ;;coin
2133 2011-01-15 19:30:51 <gribble> tails
2134 2011-01-15 19:30:56 <andrew12> ;;roulette
2135 2011-01-15 19:30:57 <gribble> *click*
2136 2011-01-15 19:31:02 <andrew12> ;;roulette
2137 2011-01-15 19:31:02 <gribble> *click*
2138 2011-01-15 19:31:05 <andrew12> ;;roulette
2139 2011-01-15 19:31:05 <gribble> *click*
2140 2011-01-15 19:31:07 <andrew12> ;;roulette
2141 2011-01-15 19:31:07 <gribble> *click*
2142 2011-01-15 19:31:09 <andrew12> ;;roulette
2143 2011-01-15 19:31:11 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
2144 2011-01-15 19:31:15 andrew12 has joined
2145 2011-01-15 19:31:16 <andrew12> :P
2146 2011-01-15 19:31:17 <ArtForz> lol
2147 2011-01-15 19:31:20 <molecular> heh
2148 2011-01-15 19:31:28 <andrew12> ;;list games
2149 2011-01-15 19:31:28 <gribble> coin, dice, eightball, monologue, and roulette
2150 2011-01-15 19:31:39 <andrew12> ;;eightball Will bitcoin ever die?
2151 2011-01-15 19:31:40 <gribble> Unlikely.
2152 2011-01-15 19:31:46 <andrew12> =o
2153 2011-01-15 19:32:07 <andrew12> supybots are fun
2154 2011-01-15 19:32:07 <ArtForz> ;;eigthball is 42 the answer?
2155 2011-01-15 19:32:08 <gribble> Error: "eigthball" is not a valid command.
2156 2011-01-15 19:32:13 <ArtForz> ;;eightball is 42 the answer?
2157 2011-01-15 19:32:13 <gribble> What are you asking me for?
2158 2011-01-15 19:32:23 <andrew12> error: cannot find eighth ball
2159 2011-01-15 19:32:28 <Cusipzzz> hahah lol
2160 2011-01-15 19:32:30 <ArtForz> lol
2161 2011-01-15 19:32:42 <andrew12> ;;eightball What's 2+2?
2162 2011-01-15 19:32:42 <gribble> Maybe...
2163 2011-01-15 19:32:53 <andrew12> this thing sucks!
2164 2011-01-15 19:32:55 <ArtForz> ;;eightball Really?
2165 2011-01-15 19:32:56 <gribble> About as likely as pigs flying.
2166 2011-01-15 19:33:19 <molecular> ;;eightball does andrew12 suck, too?
2167 2011-01-15 19:33:19 <gribble> One would be wise to think so.
2168 2011-01-15 19:33:24 <andrew12> fuck you gribble
2169 2011-01-15 19:33:25 <andrew12> :(
2170 2011-01-15 19:33:30 <molecular> :)
2171 2011-01-15 19:33:34 <ArtForz> (:
2172 2011-01-15 19:33:38 <andrew12> ):
2173 2011-01-15 19:34:16 <Cusipzzz> haha
2174 2011-01-15 19:35:11 <andrew12> anyone wanna explain http://fxnet.co.cc to me?
2175 2011-01-15 19:35:27 <ArtForz> (^.^) insert witty message here (^.^)
2176 2011-01-15 19:36:17 dduane has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2177 2011-01-15 19:36:20 <molecular> sounds like some snowball-system
2178 2011-01-15 19:36:25 <ArtForz> it is
2179 2011-01-15 19:36:32 <ArtForz> check the forum
2180 2011-01-15 19:36:43 <ArtForz> it's advertised as bitcoins first pyramid scheme :P
2181 2011-01-15 19:37:08 <edcba> ok i know what would be better
2182 2011-01-15 19:37:18 <molecular> where there's money, there's...
2183 2011-01-15 19:37:21 <edcba> i give 1 btc to someone
2184 2011-01-15 19:37:29 <ArtForz> btw, if you got that witty reference... props
2185 2011-01-15 19:37:55 <edcba> then it give me back the bitcoin 1 yr after
2186 2011-01-15 19:38:09 <molecular> shit, now I'm late for beer.. seriously off now
2187 2011-01-15 19:38:11 <ArtForz> no, bitcoin is deflationary
2188 2011-01-15 19:38:21 <edcba> plus interests of course
2189 2011-01-15 19:38:33 <ArtForz> you give me 1 btc now, you'll get it with -10% interest back in a year
2190 2011-01-15 19:38:35 <TD> so ArtForz was behind the worm!
2191 2011-01-15 19:38:40 <ArtForz> nope
2192 2011-01-15 19:38:47 <edcba> ArtForz: not now
2193 2011-01-15 19:38:49 <ArtForz> wiped my windows box back then though
2194 2011-01-15 19:38:54 <edcba> bitcoin is earning value
2195 2011-01-15 19:38:55 <TD> doh
2196 2011-01-15 19:39:13 <andrew12> heh
2197 2011-01-15 19:39:17 <ArtForz> it's what finally made me switch to linux only for my workstation
2198 2011-01-15 19:39:18 <andrew12> bitcoin stock gogogo?
2199 2011-01-15 19:40:11 <kiba> so folks
2200 2011-01-15 19:40:41 <kiba> fabianhjr just release the first issue of Bitcoin Time
2201 2011-01-15 19:40:45 <kiba> which is only 40 cents!
2202 2011-01-15 19:41:04 <andrew12> i dun get it
2203 2011-01-15 19:41:05 <TD> what is Bitcoin Time?
2204 2011-01-15 19:41:13 <TD> you mean "Bitcoin Times", as in, a newspaper?
2205 2011-01-15 19:41:14 <kiba> a magazine
2206 2011-01-15 19:41:19 <kiba> Bitcoin Times
2207 2011-01-15 19:41:20 <kiba> yeah
2208 2011-01-15 19:41:29 <TD> linky?
2209 2011-01-15 19:41:30 * andrew12 tosses a leap second at kiba
2210 2011-01-15 19:41:41 <kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2355.40
2211 2011-01-15 19:41:55 <TD> "It only contains one article thanks to kiba" haha :)
2212 2011-01-15 19:42:23 <andrew12> yick
2213 2011-01-15 19:42:24 <andrew12> odt
2214 2011-01-15 19:42:27 <TD> i'll buy it if i can get a PDF
2215 2011-01-15 19:42:28 <andrew12> make it html
2216 2011-01-15 19:42:37 <andrew12> same =P
2217 2011-01-15 19:42:46 <TD> or html, yeah. i don't have anything that can open ODTs installed right now and it'd be a pain to go get oo.org installed at the moment
2218 2011-01-15 19:43:45 <[Noodles]> yes, fxnet.co.cc is a pyramid-/snowball-/pomzi scheme and i'm "behind it", i'm just another user like anyone else though, i don't get any more or less out of it as other users
2219 2011-01-15 19:43:55 <[Noodles]> *ponzi
2220 2011-01-15 19:44:04 <andrew12> how does it work?
2221 2011-01-15 19:44:40 <[Noodles]> just join and refer others to join
2222 2011-01-15 19:44:59 <andrew12> http://fxnet.co.cc/?ref=226 -- join! :p
2223 2011-01-15 19:45:25 <[Noodles]> every first received btc is send to other users, part of it to your sponsor, part to random users
2224 2011-01-15 19:45:39 <andrew12> what if i send more than 1 btc?
2225 2011-01-15 19:45:39 <[Noodles]> that's all
2226 2011-01-15 19:45:56 <[Noodles]> you'll keep the rest as balance
2227 2011-01-15 19:46:08 <andrew12> hmm
2228 2011-01-15 19:46:24 <[Noodles]> and can withdraw it to an address of your choice at any time
2229 2011-01-15 19:46:42 <[Noodles]> no big deal, just made it for fun ^.^
2230 2011-01-15 19:47:25 <andrew12> wow @ 200 inactive users
2231 2011-01-15 19:47:27 <andrew12> er
2232 2011-01-15 19:47:28 <andrew12> 100
2233 2011-01-15 19:48:20 <[Noodles]> seen lots of those kind using paypal and stuff on the net, then there was a posting on the forums which came up as scam and i just thought, why not do it with bitcoins? will happen anyway sooner or later
2234 2011-01-15 19:48:44 <[Noodles]> and i was bored, so i did
2235 2011-01-15 19:48:53 <andrew12> its funny because apparently it's illegal in the US
2236 2011-01-15 19:49:11 <kiba> even if you say it is a ponzi scheme?
2237 2011-01-15 19:49:19 <andrew12> well i dunno
2238 2011-01-15 19:49:21 <[Noodles]> i might even add some more features, if i'm bored again, or if users ask me to
2239 2011-01-15 19:49:42 <andrew12> moar feetchurz!
2240 2011-01-15 19:50:32 <andrew12> wee testnet
2241 2011-01-15 19:50:40 <[Noodles]> like being able to send given amounts, instead of complete balance, which isnt possible yet, one could even use it as an online-wallet then
2242 2011-01-15 19:51:28 <[Noodles]> but as long as noone needs it, i guess i won't change much
2243 2011-01-15 19:52:23 <andrew12> I'd like to see some sort of site that's like a shared wallet among a few users
2244 2011-01-15 19:52:32 <andrew12> if you need money then you can withdraw it etc
2245 2011-01-15 19:52:46 <andrew12> and if you've got money you don't need you can add it
2246 2011-01-15 19:52:59 <[Noodles]> that's what MyBitcoin is, isnt it?
2247 2011-01-15 19:53:10 <andrew12> i thought mybitcoin was for one person
2248 2011-01-15 19:53:40 <[Noodles]> oh, so you wanna spend other peoples coins?
2249 2011-01-15 19:54:06 <andrew12> no... it'd be a group of people that agreed to share their coins
2250 2011-01-15 19:54:19 <Cusipzzz> lol
2251 2011-01-15 19:54:26 <andrew12> god dammit i have stupid ideas
2252 2011-01-15 19:54:32 <andrew12> sounds good in my head but not in text
2253 2011-01-15 19:54:33 <[Noodles]> well, create a service like that and see if people will join
2254 2011-01-15 19:54:33 <andrew12> -.-
2255 2011-01-15 19:54:37 <donpdonp> venmo has a friend setting to let that friend withdraw USD from your venmo account
2256 2011-01-15 19:54:49 <Cusipzzz> what is venmo?
2257 2011-01-15 19:55:05 <donpdonp> paypal competitor
2258 2011-01-15 19:55:11 <Cusipzzz> ah
2259 2011-01-15 19:55:12 <[Noodles]> just create a MyBitcoin-account and give the login-details to your friend
2260 2011-01-15 19:55:26 <[Noodles]> or clan, or community
2261 2011-01-15 19:57:27 <[Noodles]> but the glory of bitcoin is that you can do it yourself, you only need the idea, then just do it
2262 2011-01-15 19:57:54 <andrew12> not quite
2263 2011-01-15 19:58:00 <andrew12> you also need a server =p
2264 2011-01-15 19:58:04 <[Noodles]> what holds you?
2265 2011-01-15 19:58:19 <[Noodles]> well, get one, or find someone who does
2266 2011-01-15 19:58:25 <andrew12> hehe
2267 2011-01-15 19:59:39 <[Noodles]> get a VPS for 10bucks a month, should be enough to run a client and webserver
2268 2011-01-15 19:59:53 RazielZ has quit ()
2269 2011-01-15 20:00:07 <andrew12> i could get one for $5
2270 2011-01-15 20:00:18 <[Noodles]> see? :D
2271 2011-01-15 20:00:20 <andrew12> it'd be like 64mb ram though :p
2272 2011-01-15 20:00:52 <andrew12> bitcoin is using 22mb on here so that might work hehh
2273 2011-01-15 20:01:46 <andrew12> well now that i went back to using the regular network instead of testnet it's even more
2274 2011-01-15 20:01:57 <andrew12> and holy god 60 connections
2275 2011-01-15 20:02:20 <andrew12> if i had a bitcoin for each connection i got...
2276 2011-01-15 20:03:00 <andrew12> 74 connections
2277 2011-01-15 20:03:11 <niekie> slush: what do the red backgrounds mean in the Hall of Fame? :)
2278 2011-01-15 20:03:15 <andrew12> the most i've seen on here is like 50.. what's going on?!
2279 2011-01-15 20:03:20 <niekie> Or well, pink.
2280 2011-01-15 20:03:23 <slush> niekie: disconnected
2281 2011-01-15 20:03:28 <niekie> Ah.
2282 2011-01-15 20:03:41 <niekie> Curious that the top user is disconnected :)
2283 2011-01-15 20:04:14 <andrew12> hehe, i should start selling btc at .35 and then buying at .32 or something :P
2284 2011-01-15 20:04:18 <[Noodles]> i mostly have around 50connections, most i'v ever noticed have been 80
2285 2011-01-15 20:05:31 <andrew12> now it's at 64
2286 2011-01-15 20:05:32 <andrew12> wtf
2287 2011-01-15 20:06:00 <Diablo-D3> Im currently at 8
2288 2011-01-15 20:06:12 <andrew12> you're probably getting connections from irc
2289 2011-01-15 20:07:21 <ArtForz> yeah, pretty normal if you accept inbound connections
2290 2011-01-15 20:07:35 <ArtForz> my main node has 53 currently
2291 2011-01-15 20:07:48 <andrew12> grr
2292 2011-01-15 20:07:55 * andrew12 needs 5 more bitcoins so he can use mtgox
2293 2011-01-15 20:08:12 <andrew12> you need to have >10 btc :<
2294 2011-01-15 20:08:28 <ArtForz> really sucks that so few people are accepting incoming connections
2295 2011-01-15 20:09:46 lfm has quit (Quit: Hey!  Where'd my controlling terminal go?)
2296 2011-01-15 20:09:54 <andrew12> wow
2297 2011-01-15 20:10:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but you cant accept connections unless through tor.
2298 2011-01-15 20:10:21 <andrew12> earlier today the price was up to 0.4, and even further earlier it was 0.06
2299 2011-01-15 20:10:24 <Diablo-D3> er
2300 2011-01-15 20:10:30 <Diablo-D3> unless NOT through tor
2301 2011-01-15 20:10:43 <ArtForz> errr.. so?
2302 2011-01-15 20:10:50 <Diablo-D3> I use tor.
2303 2011-01-15 20:13:22 <ArtForz> now if only everyone did that, then the network wouldnt work at all
2304 2011-01-15 20:14:49 <andrew12> heh
2305 2011-01-15 20:16:12 <andrew12> Last Price: 0.385  High:0.4  Low: 0.38  Volume: 2109
2306 2011-01-15 20:25:42 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2307 2011-01-15 20:30:11 <kiba> fabianhjr comes up with a PDF for the magazine
2308 2011-01-15 20:34:08 alystair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2309 2011-01-15 20:34:15 <andrew12> well, since i can't find a bitcoin pool that works, i guess i'll just have to mine for myself :(
2310 2011-01-15 20:34:32 <slush> andrew12: ?
2311 2011-01-15 20:34:33 <kiba> slush's pool doesn't work for you, andrew12 ?
2312 2011-01-15 20:34:45 <andrew12> link?
2313 2011-01-15 20:34:57 <slush> ,,pool
2314 2011-01-15 20:34:58 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2315 2011-01-15 20:36:00 <andrew12> oh does it work with puddinpop's miner?
2316 2011-01-15 20:36:13 <slush> With newest one yes
2317 2011-01-15 20:36:17 <andrew12> ok cool
2318 2011-01-15 20:36:40 <slush> if you are using this one: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2444.0
2319 2011-01-15 20:36:43 <slush> then yes
2320 2011-01-15 20:36:48 <kiba> slush: you must be making load of bitcoin from donation, aren't you?
2321 2011-01-15 20:37:26 <andrew12> hmm
2322 2011-01-15 20:37:28 <andrew12> I wasn
2323 2011-01-15 20:37:32 <andrew12> I wasn't, but I will be
2324 2011-01-15 20:37:37 AAA_awright_ has joined
2325 2011-01-15 20:37:48 <andrew12> It's awwwwwwright!!
2326 2011-01-15 20:37:50 <andrew12> :P
2327 2011-01-15 20:38:26 <slush> kiba: nothing impressive
2328 2011-01-15 20:38:33 akem has joined
2329 2011-01-15 20:38:39 <slush> but I appreciate every donation, of course
2330 2011-01-15 20:39:14 <slush> many people have their 2% set up on profile, but wast majority of anonymous miners have 0%
2331 2011-01-15 20:41:28 <niekie> I currently have 0% because I'm a bastard.
2332 2011-01-15 20:41:28 <niekie> I'll probably up that later though.
2333 2011-01-15 20:41:28 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2334 2011-01-15 20:42:10 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2335 2011-01-15 20:43:03 elryry has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2336 2011-01-15 20:43:03 <slush> niekie: so you are a majority :D
2337 2011-01-15 20:46:36 wumpus has quit (No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2338 2011-01-15 20:46:52 wump has joined
2339 2011-01-15 20:47:12 <newsham> slush: his pool lets you donate 2% of your mined coins to the pool
2340 2011-01-15 20:47:55 <nevezen> I'm considering of giving it all back to you slush
2341 2011-01-15 20:48:01 <andrew12> newsham: you mean Diablo-D3? :P
2342 2011-01-15 20:48:16 pankkake_ has joined
2343 2011-01-15 20:48:19 <newsham> yes i meant diablo
2344 2011-01-15 20:48:20 <nevezen> a pool is nice but doesn't generate significant coins/hr/day
2345 2011-01-15 20:48:54 pankkake has quit (Disconnected by services)
2346 2011-01-15 20:48:58 <andrew12> neither does a shitty pc
2347 2011-01-15 20:48:58 <nevezen> my 3-4th day in the pool I only mined out 3 coins
2348 2011-01-15 20:49:04 pankkake_ is now known as pankkake
2349 2011-01-15 20:49:05 <ArtForz> it does if you have significant hashrate
2350 2011-01-15 20:49:10 <nevezen> right
2351 2011-01-15 20:49:24 <ArtForz> pool or no pool, average btc/day is pretty much the same
2352 2011-01-15 20:49:34 <ArtForz> just in chunks of 0.0something btc instead of 50
2353 2011-01-15 20:49:42 <nevezen> right, it comes in increments
2354 2011-01-15 20:50:54 <slush1> nevezen: But pool doesn't give you more bitcoins in average than you can mine standalone for long term
2355 2011-01-15 20:50:59 nolan_d1 has joined
2356 2011-01-15 20:51:11 <andrew12> why havent i gotten an email for registration yet? :<
2357 2011-01-15 20:51:13 <slush1> nevezen: You cannot expect you will connect CPU and earn many bitcoins per day :)
2358 2011-01-15 20:51:16 <ArtForz> usnt that exactly what I said?
2359 2011-01-15 20:51:23 <slush1> andrew12: check spam folder
2360 2011-01-15 20:51:26 <andrew12> i have
2361 2011-01-15 20:51:50 <Diablo-D3> wee
2362 2011-01-15 20:51:53 <andrew12> hold onto your butts
2363 2011-01-15 20:51:54 <Diablo-D3> btw, slush needs to add
2364 2011-01-15 20:51:59 <Diablo-D3> donating to the people who make bitcoin possible
2365 2011-01-15 20:52:03 <newsham> slush: fast computer somewhere around 0.20btc per day?
2366 2011-01-15 20:52:13 <newsham> ie. core i5
2367 2011-01-15 20:52:53 <ArtForz> core i5 isn't exactly a very fast CPU
2368 2011-01-15 20:52:55 <slush1> I don't know, depends on hashrate
2369 2011-01-15 20:53:00 AAA_awright_ has joined
2370 2011-01-15 20:53:12 <ArtForz> what do you get? like 4Mhps?
2371 2011-01-15 20:53:16 <niekie_> And slightly on luck :)
2372 2011-01-15 20:53:29 <niekie_> HashMeter(2): 16777216 hashes, 1281.79 khash/sec
2373 2011-01-15 20:53:29 <niekie_> HashMeter(1): 16777216 hashes, 905.45 khash/sec
2374 2011-01-15 20:53:29 <niekie_> HashMeter(0): 16777216 hashes, 1061.54 khash/sec
2375 2011-01-15 20:53:33 <niekie_> ^ on my i5
2376 2011-01-15 20:53:39 <ArtForz> wow
2377 2011-01-15 20:53:44 niekie_ is now known as niekie
2378 2011-01-15 20:53:46 <ArtForz> so only 3.2Mhps
2379 2011-01-15 20:53:51 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 3200
2380 2011-01-15 20:53:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3200 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 40 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 3 minutes, and 7 seconds
2381 2011-01-15 20:53:56 <Diablo-D3> thats still not much
2382 2011-01-15 20:54:01 <Diablo-D3> my c2d e8500 does 2.9
2383 2011-01-15 20:54:03 <niekie> That's using 2 real cores and one fake.
2384 2011-01-15 20:54:04 <Diablo-D3> and it has 2 cores.
2385 2011-01-15 20:54:12 <newsham> artforz: around 3M for me with i5 (4 threads) and 4way
2386 2011-01-15 20:54:17 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 600
2387 2011-01-15 20:54:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 4 years, 9 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes, and 39 seconds
2388 2011-01-15 20:54:19 <niekie> (Hyperthreading)
2389 2011-01-15 20:54:21 <ArtForz> 3.1M = so.. about 0.175 btc/day at current difficulty
2390 2011-01-15 20:54:27 <andrew12> ^-- my pc
2391 2011-01-15 20:54:30 <niekie> Oddly enough that makes it slightly faster.
2392 2011-01-15 20:54:43 <newsham> artforz: sounds about right.
2393 2011-01-15 20:54:53 <newsham> i get around 0.50btc/day with i5 + nvidia gpu
2394 2011-01-15 20:55:01 <newsham> maybe 0.40
2395 2011-01-15 20:55:03 <newsham> somewhere in that range
2396 2011-01-15 20:55:14 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2397 2011-01-15 20:55:17 <nevezen> slush, I'm using a gpu miner
2398 2011-01-15 20:55:20 <ArtForz> thats about what a fast CPU gets
2399 2011-01-15 20:55:20 <kiba> I wonder what I should do for money
2400 2011-01-15 20:55:22 <kiba> I lack works
2401 2011-01-15 20:55:38 <andrew12> kiba: same
2402 2011-01-15 20:55:38 * kiba ponders and ponders
2403 2011-01-15 20:55:39 <newsham> kiba: your best outlook: get a job.
2404 2011-01-15 20:55:41 <ArtForz> hexcore Phenom II / core i7
2405 2011-01-15 20:55:55 <kiba> newsham: I write, I program, and make arts!
2406 2011-01-15 20:56:00 <ArtForz> should get about 0.75 btc/day or so
2407 2011-01-15 20:56:01 <niekie> ;;bc,calc 3200
2408 2011-01-15 20:56:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3200 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 40 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 3 minutes, and 7 seconds
2409 2011-01-15 20:56:06 * kiba self-educate himself using khan-academy
2410 2011-01-15 20:56:15 <andrew12> there's the email
2411 2011-01-15 20:56:17 <andrew12> woo
2412 2011-01-15 20:56:17 <nevezen> how much hash/s does a a top of the line intel i7 put out?
2413 2011-01-15 20:56:23 <niekie> ;;bc,calc 6000
2414 2011-01-15 20:56:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 21 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes, and 39 seconds
2415 2011-01-15 20:56:35 <ArtForz> about 15000khash iirc
2416 2011-01-15 20:56:44 <nevezen> 15MH
2417 2011-01-15 20:56:53 <newsham> its amazing how much chat here is about grinding out hashes per seconds.
2418 2011-01-15 20:57:10 <andrew12> hehe
2419 2011-01-15 20:57:11 <nevezen> at least my 8800GT puts out 10MH/s more :)
2420 2011-01-15 20:57:13 <ArtForz> a overclocked Phenom II hexcore gets about the same
2421 2011-01-15 20:57:17 <newsham> someone needs to start thinking of things that artforz wants to buy with his btc. :)
2422 2011-01-15 20:57:44 <Cusipzzz> pretty sure he wants to buy local currency, lol
2423 2011-01-15 20:57:58 <newsham> cusipzzz: no doubt, but that niche has already been filled
2424 2011-01-15 20:58:15 <Cusipzzz> true...but neccessary until hookers and blow takes BTC
2425 2011-01-15 20:58:27 helmut has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2426 2011-01-15 20:58:30 <ArtForz> hahaha
2427 2011-01-15 20:58:38 helmut has joined
2428 2011-01-15 20:59:28 <nevezen> is there a gpu miner you can use without using a pool?
2429 2011-01-15 20:59:40 <ArtForz> errr... all of them?
2430 2011-01-15 20:59:40 james_ has joined
2431 2011-01-15 20:59:45 <nevezen> hmmmm
2432 2011-01-15 20:59:45 <newsham> the gpu miners work with bitcoind as well as with a pool
2433 2011-01-15 20:59:59 <nevezen> oh
2434 2011-01-15 21:00:12 HarryS has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2435 2011-01-15 21:00:16 <newsham> you could check the docs :)
2436 2011-01-15 21:00:25 <ArtForz> just set up bitcoind or bitcoin -server with rpcuser/password and connect your miner to it
2437 2011-01-15 21:00:38 <ArtForz> miner(s)
2438 2011-01-15 21:00:46 <nevezen> that's what I was thinking.. but in the server field you just fill in localhost
2439 2011-01-15 21:00:57 HarryS has joined
2440 2011-01-15 21:00:57 <newsham> i dont want to get caught selling liquor to miners.
2441 2011-01-15 21:01:01 <newsham> but there must be something worth selling
2442 2011-01-15 21:01:21 <ArtForz> I have 55 miners hanging off a single bitcoin node
2443 2011-01-15 21:01:24 <niekie> That's a clever pun. I salute you, sir.
2444 2011-01-15 21:01:32 * niekie adjusts top-hat.
2445 2011-01-15 21:01:45 <newsham> niekie: it would have been funnier if I used it in reply to the "hookers and blow" remark earlier.
2446 2011-01-15 21:01:50 <newsham> *sigh*  missed opportunties
2447 2011-01-15 21:02:27 <nevezen> what if it isn't local?
2448 2011-01-15 21:02:28 <ArtForz> liquor? I barely know 'er! </groan>
2449 2011-01-15 21:02:35 <andrew12> lmao
2450 2011-01-15 21:02:54 <newsham> miner? i just met'er!
2451 2011-01-15 21:03:04 elryry has joined
2452 2011-01-15 21:03:19 <newsham> nev: make bitcoind bind to something other than localhost addr?
2453 2011-01-15 21:03:47 <nevezen> or I guess you can just take your wallet.dat with you
2454 2011-01-15 21:04:04 <newsham> ahh, -rpcallowip=
2455 2011-01-15 21:04:17 <nevezen> yeah, I need to read more
2456 2011-01-15 21:04:18 <ArtForz> if the miner isn't local?
2457 2011-01-15 21:04:41 <newsham> you *could* run a diff bitcoind on each host thats mining
2458 2011-01-15 21:04:43 <ArtForz> illegal alien miners stealing our jobs!
2459 2011-01-15 21:04:51 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
2460 2011-01-15 21:04:51 <andrew12> lmfao
2461 2011-01-15 21:04:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102861 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 1970 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 16 hours, 10 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 22084.93644329
2462 2011-01-15 21:05:06 <brocktice> ouch
2463 2011-01-15 21:05:19 <brocktice> glad I got 2.5x my expected production yesterday
2464 2011-01-15 21:05:31 <brocktice> although I guess that 22000 is pretty noisy
2465 2011-01-15 21:05:55 <brocktice> ;;bc,calcs
2466 2011-01-15 21:05:56 <gribble> Error: "bc,calcs" is not a valid command.
2467 2011-01-15 21:06:03 <andrew12> ;;bc
2468 2011-01-15 21:06:04 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
2469 2011-01-15 21:06:06 <andrew12> heh
2470 2011-01-15 21:06:10 <andrew12> ;;bc,list
2471 2011-01-15 21:06:10 <gribble> Error: "bc,list" is not a valid command.
2472 2011-01-15 21:06:13 <andrew12> aww.
2473 2011-01-15 21:06:15 puddinpop has joined
2474 2011-01-15 21:06:29 <newsham> when slush pool was offline for an hour the police broke in and arrested mr. sllush for contributing to the delinquency of miners
2475 2011-01-15 21:06:30 <andrew12> ,,bc,stats
2476 2011-01-15 21:06:30 <ArtForz> wasnt it something like bc,help ?
2477 2011-01-15 21:06:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 102861 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 1970 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 16 hours, 10 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 22084.93644329
2478 2011-01-15 21:06:32 <newsham> (trying too hard?)
2479 2011-01-15 21:06:36 <andrew12> ;;bc,help
2480 2011-01-15 21:06:37 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
2481 2011-01-15 21:06:39 <andrew12> ah
2482 2011-01-15 21:06:45 <andrew12> ;;list alias
2483 2011-01-15 21:06:45 <gribble> ?, about, add, bc,bcm, bc,blocks, bc,btcex, bc,calc, bc,calcd, bc,diff, bc,estimate, bc,help, bc,hextarget, bc,labs, bc,lbs, bc,markets, bc,mtgox, bc,nexttarget, bc,poolstats, bc,stats, bc,timetonext, bc,totalbc, bc,wiki, blockmonitor, bot, botsnack, boturl, cheer, configure, ctell, direct, factlist, facts, getprefix, give, giveout, h, help, histsearch, hug, isitdown, lock, ls, mp, (1 more message)
2484 2011-01-15 21:06:53 <andrew12> hehe
2485 2011-01-15 21:06:56 <newsham> ;;botsnack
2486 2011-01-15 21:07:03 <andrew12> ;;bc,totalbc
2487 2011-01-15 21:07:10 <brocktice> ;;bc,calcd 2300000 22084
2488 2011-01-15 21:07:28 <brocktice> gribble, you OK?
2489 2011-01-15 21:07:31 <newsham> ;;broke the bot
2490 2011-01-15 21:07:33 <ArtForz> oh my god, you killed gribble!
2491 2011-01-15 21:07:38 <newsham> you bastards!
2492 2011-01-15 21:07:39 <slush1> you killed gribble!!
2493 2011-01-15 21:07:49 <slush1> lol
2494 2011-01-15 21:07:50 <ArtForz> lol
2495 2011-01-15 21:07:54 <newsham> perhaps its just being throttled for excessive output
2496 2011-01-15 21:07:57 <brocktice> el oh el oh el
2497 2011-01-15 21:08:34 <newsham> lowell,ma
2498 2011-01-15 21:09:51 jaromil_ has joined
2499 2011-01-15 21:10:55 aximilation has joined
2500 2011-01-15 21:11:29 <andrew12> ,alias add botsnack echo :D
2501 2011-01-15 21:11:34 <andrew12> ;;alias add botsnack echo :D
2502 2011-01-15 21:11:40 <andrew12> ;;list
2503 2011-01-15 21:11:43 <andrew12> IS IT DEAD?
2504 2011-01-15 21:11:55 <ArtForz> no, it's ... resting
2505 2011-01-15 21:12:05 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2506 2011-01-15 21:12:05 aximilat1on has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2507 2011-01-15 21:12:05 jaromil has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2508 2011-01-15 21:12:05 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2509 2011-01-15 21:12:05 BitterTea has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2510 2011-01-15 21:12:06 JStoker has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2511 2011-01-15 21:12:06 int0x27h has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2512 2011-01-15 21:12:06 BitterTea has joined
2513 2011-01-15 21:12:06 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
2514 2011-01-15 21:12:06 BitterTea has joined
2515 2011-01-15 21:12:11 <brocktice> uh oh
2516 2011-01-15 21:12:12 gribble has joined
2517 2011-01-15 21:12:16 <andrew12> or... =p
2518 2011-01-15 21:12:19 <andrew12> ;;alias add botsnack echo :D
2519 2011-01-15 21:12:24 <brocktice> ;;bc,calcd 2300000 22084
2520 2011-01-15 21:12:26 <sipa> ;;botsnack
2521 2011-01-15 21:12:29 <ArtForz> *cue dead parrot skit*
2522 2011-01-15 21:12:30 <brocktice> damn
2523 2011-01-15 21:12:41 <brocktice> Why is newegg selling George Foreman grills?
2524 2011-01-15 21:12:42 int0x27h_ has joined
2525 2011-01-15 21:12:44 <andrew12> ;;list
2526 2011-01-15 21:12:48 <gribble> Error: You don't have the alias.add capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
2527 2011-01-15 21:12:50 <ArtForz> wtf, I'm lagging
2528 2011-01-15 21:12:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 22084, is 11 hours, 27 minutes, and 19 seconds
2529 2011-01-15 21:12:51 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
2530 2011-01-15 21:12:52 <gribble> Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, BitcoinCentralMonitor, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Debug, Dict, Dunno, Factoids, Filter, Format, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Later, MarketMonitor, Math, MessageParser, Misc, MtgoxMonitor, Network, Note, OTCOrderBook, Owner, Plugin, RSS, RatingSystem, Relay, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, (1 more message)
2531 2011-01-15 21:12:58 <brocktice> there we go
2532 2011-01-15 21:13:00 <andrew12> lol
2533 2011-01-15 21:13:08 <andrew12> so ;;botsnack does exist
2534 2011-01-15 21:13:26 <andrew12> ;;boturl
2535 2011-01-15 21:13:26 <gribble> The bot's webpage is http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2536 2011-01-15 21:13:28 <andrew12> ;;cheer
2537 2011-01-15 21:13:29 <gribble> (cheer <an alias, at least 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo [reply action calls out three cheers for $1 $*]".
2538 2011-01-15 21:13:38 nanotube has joined
2539 2011-01-15 21:13:52 <andrew12> ;;cheer nanotube
2540 2011-01-15 21:13:52 * gribble calls out three cheers for nanotube
2541 2011-01-15 21:14:30 <andrew12> ;;give
2542 2011-01-15 21:14:30 * gribble gives to andrew12
2543 2011-01-15 21:14:33 <andrew12> p.o
2544 2011-01-15 21:14:37 <andrew12> ;;help give
2545 2011-01-15 21:14:37 <gribble> (give <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "action gives $* to $nick".
2546 2011-01-15 21:14:44 <andrew12> ;;give over 9000 btc
2547 2011-01-15 21:14:44 * gribble gives over 9000 btc to andrew12
2548 2011-01-15 21:14:56 <andrew12> ;;help giveout
2549 2011-01-15 21:14:56 <gribble> (giveout <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "action gives $*".
2550 2011-01-15 21:14:57 JStoker has joined
2551 2011-01-15 21:15:17 <andrew12> ;;cheer JStoker :D
2552 2011-01-15 21:15:17 * gribble calls out three cheers for JStoker :D
2553 2011-01-15 21:15:33 <brocktice> ;;cheer bitcoins
2554 2011-01-15 21:15:34 * gribble calls out three cheers for bitcoins
2555 2011-01-15 21:15:38 <brocktice> huzzah!
2556 2011-01-15 21:15:44 <andrew12> huzzah!
2557 2011-01-15 21:15:51 <brocktice> oh, go5w
2558 2011-01-15 21:15:54 <brocktice> oh, bots even
2559 2011-01-15 21:15:59 <andrew12> ;;ls
2560 2011-01-15 21:15:59 <gribble> What do you think I am, a shell?
2561 2011-01-15 21:15:59 <brocktice> misalignment fail
2562 2011-01-15 21:16:04 <andrew12> lmao
2563 2011-01-15 21:16:10 <andrew12> ;;mp
2564 2011-01-15 21:16:10 <gribble> Error: "messageparser" is not a valid command.
2565 2011-01-15 21:16:15 <andrew12> =o
2566 2011-01-15 21:16:29 <brocktice> BTW, apparently saying 'FAIL' has totally lost its authenticity.
2567 2011-01-15 21:16:37 <brocktice> I saw it in an ad in a major newspaper.
2568 2011-01-15 21:17:52 <ArtForz> awww
2569 2011-01-15 21:18:21 <andrew12> oh god
2570 2011-01-15 21:18:45 <niekie> slush1: are you still around? :)
2571 2011-01-15 21:18:54 <slush1> niekie: yep
2572 2011-01-15 21:19:11 <niekie> slush1: do you need translation for mining.bitcoin.cz? :)
2573 2011-01-15 21:19:20 <niekie> I can translate to Dutch.
2574 2011-01-15 21:19:24 Cusipzzzz has joined
2575 2011-01-15 21:19:33 xelister_ has joined
2576 2011-01-15 21:19:40 Cusipzzzz has quit (Client Quit)
2577 2011-01-15 21:19:44 <slush1> huh. Site is not prepared for many languages, but it should not be so hard...
2578 2011-01-15 21:19:46 <andrew12> Cheezburger must die
2579 2011-01-15 21:20:28 JStoker_ has joined
2580 2011-01-15 21:20:58 <slush1> niekie: I think most useful is to translate homepage and then texts on profile
2581 2011-01-15 21:21:08 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2582 2011-01-15 21:21:08 JStoker has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2583 2011-01-15 21:21:09 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2584 2011-01-15 21:21:09 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2585 2011-01-15 21:21:09 JStoker_ is now known as JStoker
2586 2011-01-15 21:21:30 <slush1> niekie: So if you have free time, I appreciate it
2587 2011-01-15 21:22:24 CyanDynamo has joined
2588 2011-01-15 21:23:37 niekie has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2589 2011-01-15 21:23:41 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2590 2011-01-15 21:23:43 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2591 2011-01-15 21:24:26 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2592 2011-01-15 21:25:44 luke-jr has joined
2593 2011-01-15 21:27:13 darkskiez has joined
2594 2011-01-15 21:27:30 <andrew12> i wish it wasn't so hard to get people interested in bitcoin
2595 2011-01-15 21:27:44 <Diablo-D3> people simply dont give a fuck
2596 2011-01-15 21:27:47 <Diablo-D3> slush1: so I was thinking
2597 2011-01-15 21:27:55 <Diablo-D3> slush1: you should donate to the people who make this possible
2598 2011-01-15 21:28:00 <kiba> Diablo-D3: people don't see anything special about money
2599 2011-01-15 21:28:15 <kiba> money is just a medium of exchange
2600 2011-01-15 21:28:27 <Diablo-D3> slush1: satoshi, me, m0, that guy who wrote the cpu miner, mtgox, etc
2601 2011-01-15 21:28:34 <Diablo-D3> and gavin
2602 2011-01-15 21:28:40 <andrew12> damn, beat me
2603 2011-01-15 21:28:41 <andrew12> lol
2604 2011-01-15 21:28:47 lfm has joined
2605 2011-01-15 21:29:07 Slix` has joined
2606 2011-01-15 21:29:35 <sipa> and why exclude all others who have contributed to the bitcoin community
2607 2011-01-15 21:30:06 <sipa> not to say you may not earn a reward, but people ought to decide for themselves :)
2608 2011-01-15 21:33:19 jav has joined
2609 2011-01-15 21:33:20 shortcir1uit has joined
2610 2011-01-15 21:33:37 <luke-jr> I tried to donate to some guy, but he never gave me an address
2611 2011-01-15 21:33:42 <luke-jr> I liked a change he made to the wiki
2612 2011-01-15 21:34:16 DiabloD3 has joined
2613 2011-01-15 21:34:26 jgarzik_ has joined
2614 2011-01-15 21:34:44 <DiabloD3> errr
2615 2011-01-15 21:34:46 <DiabloD3> wtf
2616 2011-01-15 21:34:48 Diablo-D3 has quit (Disconnected by services)
2617 2011-01-15 21:34:49 shortcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2618 2011-01-15 21:34:50 welterde has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2619 2011-01-15 21:34:50 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2620 2011-01-15 21:34:54 DiabloD3 is now known as Diablo-D3
2621 2011-01-15 21:35:06 <Diablo-D3> slush1: so what do you think?
2622 2011-01-15 21:37:13 shortcir1uit is now known as shortcircuit
2623 2011-01-15 21:37:36 shortcircuit has quit (Client Quit)
2624 2011-01-15 21:38:00 shortcircuit has joined
2625 2011-01-15 21:38:46 [Beta] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2626 2011-01-15 21:39:04 johndrinkwater has joined
2627 2011-01-15 21:39:28 spm_Draget has joined
2628 2011-01-15 21:40:01 spm_Draget has left ("Joining #reallife")
2629 2011-01-15 21:41:36 spm_Draget has joined
2630 2011-01-15 21:42:14 int0x27h_ has quit (Changing host)
2631 2011-01-15 21:42:14 int0x27h_ has joined
2632 2011-01-15 21:42:26 int0x27h_ is now known as int0x27h
2633 2011-01-15 21:45:02 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2634 2011-01-15 21:45:10 nanotube has joined
2635 2011-01-15 21:45:10 nanotube has quit (Changing host)
2636 2011-01-15 21:45:10 nanotube has joined
2637 2011-01-15 21:45:35 Cusipzzz has joined
2638 2011-01-15 21:46:20 <slush1> Diablo-D3: Donations to miners authors are on my mind.
2639 2011-01-15 21:47:28 <slush1> but currently the biggest pool supporter is m0mchil, which create funny situation
2640 2011-01-15 21:48:06 welterde has joined
2641 2011-01-15 21:48:47 <dnm> ArtForz: newsham tells me you fabricated some ASICs?
2642 2011-01-15 21:49:15 <tcatm> #bitcoin-monitor almost realtime block/TX notifications
2643 2011-01-15 21:50:08 Seta00 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2644 2011-01-15 21:50:28 BitterTea has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2645 2011-01-15 21:51:24 <ArtForz> well, kinda
2646 2011-01-15 21:51:35 <ArtForz> structured ASIC
2647 2011-01-15 21:52:12 <slush1> tcatm: nice! I was thinking today that I miss something like this
2648 2011-01-15 21:52:30 <slush1> tcatm: And after few hours you announce channel :)
2649 2011-01-15 21:52:32 <dnm> I'm intensely curious, but I don't want to pump you for information if you've already written about it somewhere else I can read.
2650 2011-01-15 21:52:48 <ArtForz> nope, but I think I should really start writing a FAQ
2651 2011-01-15 21:53:03 <dnm> Are there #bitcoin-dev logs?
2652 2011-01-15 21:53:11 <tcatm> slush1: I've been thinking about this for a few weeks :)
2653 2011-01-15 21:53:15 <ArtForz> yeah
2654 2011-01-15 21:54:09 <ArtForz> http://stuff.caurea.org/irssi/freenode/%23bitcoin-dev/
2655 2011-01-15 21:54:11 <slush1> tcatm: how it is done? Do you use bitcoind with patch which report event to some url?
2656 2011-01-15 21:54:29 <dnm> ArtForz: Thanks!
2657 2011-01-15 21:55:29 <niekie> Are there any Bitcoin Android clients which directly connect to the Bitcoin network?
2658 2011-01-15 21:55:33 <niekie> (and not to a bitcoind)
2659 2011-01-15 21:55:34 <tcatm> slush1: It's based on ArtForz half-client
2660 2011-01-15 21:55:43 <niekie> I saw 1 in the market but it connects to bitcoind.
2661 2011-01-15 21:56:45 Xanie has joined
2662 2011-01-15 21:57:21 <Diablo-D3> [04:42:11] <slush1> Diablo-D3: Donations to miners authors are on my mind.
2663 2011-01-15 21:57:21 <Diablo-D3> [04:43:19] <slush1> but currently the biggest pool supporter is m0mchil, which create funny situation
2664 2011-01-15 21:57:24 <Diablo-D3> hah.
2665 2011-01-15 21:57:39 <Diablo-D3> so
2666 2011-01-15 21:57:42 Toadyonps3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2667 2011-01-15 21:57:42 <Diablo-D3> you give the coins to m0
2668 2011-01-15 21:57:46 <Diablo-D3> which get donated to the pool
2669 2011-01-15 21:57:49 <Diablo-D3> which get donated to m0
2670 2011-01-15 21:57:52 <Diablo-D3> which get donated to the pool
2671 2011-01-15 21:58:11 <Diablo-D3> clearly
2672 2011-01-15 21:58:18 <Diablo-D3> he cant donate his donated coins to the pool
2673 2011-01-15 22:01:26 <luke-jr> tcatm: +m ftl
2674 2011-01-15 22:02:29 <luke-jr> tcatm: tell it to not round -.-
2675 2011-01-15 22:02:41 <luke-jr> tcatm: or better yet, use formatBitcoins ;)
2676 2011-01-15 22:02:51 <luke-jr> then it would have correctly shown 10 TBC for mine
2677 2011-01-15 22:02:54 <tcatm> port formatBitcoins to python
2678 2011-01-15 22:03:10 <tcatm> input: integer, output: string
2679 2011-01-15 22:03:11 slush1 is now known as slush
2680 2011-01-15 22:03:14 <hacim> (58.31 BTC, 0.05 BTC) means?
2681 2011-01-15 22:03:15 <jav> tcatm, you are saying this is based on a client by ArtForz? what client is that and is the source available somewhere?
2682 2011-01-15 22:03:23 <hacim> 58 sent, .05 transaction fee?
2683 2011-01-15 22:03:25 slush has quit (Changing host)
2684 2011-01-15 22:03:25 slush has joined
2685 2011-01-15 22:03:28 <luke-jr> tcatm: aww, cmon it isn't that hard
2686 2011-01-15 22:03:30 <luke-jr> bbl
2687 2011-01-15 22:03:34 <tcatm> jav: it was available as a patebin somewhere
2688 2011-01-15 22:03:37 <luke-jr> tcatm: remind me when I get back
2689 2011-01-15 22:04:18 <slush> tcatm: irc tell me "cannot send to channel" in -monitor. Is that expected?
2690 2011-01-15 22:04:18 <jav> tcatm, hm ok.. written in what language?
2691 2011-01-15 22:05:28 <tcatm> jav: python
2692 2011-01-15 22:05:29 spm_Draget has left ("Joining #reallife")
2693 2011-01-15 22:05:44 <tcatm> slush: yes, I set +m to make it less cluttered
2694 2011-01-15 22:07:08 <hacim> are these addresses?
2695 2011-01-15 22:07:13 <tcatm> no, hashes
2696 2011-01-15 22:07:23 <tcatm> after the block is found you can search for them at blockexplorer.com
2697 2011-01-15 22:07:40 <niekie> Nice TX floods :)
2698 2011-01-15 22:08:00 <Cusipzzz> <3 blockexplorer.com
2699 2011-01-15 22:09:48 <edcba> make a donation then
2700 2011-01-15 22:10:14 <Cusipzzz> i did, will make another :p
2701 2011-01-15 22:10:15 <hacim> hm
2702 2011-01-15 22:10:38 <tcatm> I could add a crawler and automatically detect donation addresses in -monitor
2703 2011-01-15 22:10:42 <hacim> tcatm: i couldn't find a hash from the channel as either an address, a transaction, or a block at blockexplorer.com
2704 2011-01-15 22:10:53 <hacim> eg. http://blockexplorer.com/block/a682fc45de37960c9862f7274bb2d544eb7d374965f72b45948de98fbbb23736
2705 2011-01-15 22:10:56 <hacim> no such block
2706 2011-01-15 22:11:17 <tcatm> The next block needs to be solved first before blockexplorer knows of those TX
2707 2011-01-15 22:11:19 <kiba> I am tired
2708 2011-01-15 22:11:22 <kiba> and I make no money
2709 2011-01-15 22:11:37 <edcba> lol
2710 2011-01-15 22:11:51 <slush> niekie: The TX flood at 22:00 are payouts from pool ;)
2711 2011-01-15 22:11:56 <necrodearia> kiba, http://is.gd/B5ls87
2712 2011-01-15 22:12:15 <kiba> necrodearia: how's your pizza4btc coming along?
2713 2011-01-15 22:12:37 <necrodearia> No progress since a month or so.  I'm working primarily on another site still.
2714 2011-01-15 22:13:21 <tcatm> hacim: now you can see the TX
2715 2011-01-15 22:14:53 <kiba> necrodearia: at this rate, you'll never finish your project
2716 2011-01-15 22:14:56 <slush> niekie: *at 21:00 UTC
2717 2011-01-15 22:15:03 <hacim> talso: interesting, the four previous to the block found are not available
2718 2011-01-15 22:15:08 <hacim> err tcatm
2719 2011-01-15 22:15:34 <tcatm> hacim: they probably didn't make it to a miner fast enough
2720 2011-01-15 22:16:31 <hacim> so they should show up in the next block
2721 2011-01-15 22:16:35 <tcatm> yep
2722 2011-01-15 22:18:15 Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2723 2011-01-15 22:18:24 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2724 2011-01-15 22:18:54 Tritonio_GR has joined
2725 2011-01-15 22:18:59 <hacim> why is it that one output sends coins to the destination, and one output sends coins back to a new address owned by the sender?
2726 2011-01-15 22:19:26 <Cusipzzz> change
2727 2011-01-15 22:21:30 <hacim> change?
2728 2011-01-15 22:21:39 <niekie> slush: how often does it queue for payout? Every hour?
2729 2011-01-15 22:21:45 <slush> y
2730 2011-01-15 22:22:01 <niekie> Ah :)
2731 2011-01-15 22:22:39 <hacim> tcatm: interesting, http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f4c0727db0895b0ab82a09b2ff78cc72837fc05f2eba7d778c01bc5d938138c7 still not there, even though the next block was found
2732 2011-01-15 22:22:42 <niekie> One of my workers overheated around an hour ago. Heh :)
2733 2011-01-15 22:22:55 <tcatm> hacim: Notice: BBE is temporarily located on a different computer than normal. HTTPS access is offline. The database is updated less frequently (5 minutes instead of 1 minute).
2734 2011-01-15 22:23:00 <niekie> At least it manages to shut down then :)
2735 2011-01-15 22:23:28 <tcatm> ;;seen theymos
2736 2011-01-15 22:23:29 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 days, 3 hours, 41 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <theymos> ;;bc,calc 110000
2737 2011-01-15 22:26:45 <hacim> tcatm: aha
2738 2011-01-15 22:33:37 devon_hillard has joined
2739 2011-01-15 22:34:36 <necrodearia> heh, you're looking for theymos too?  I noticed he's been active on the forum still.
2740 2011-01-15 22:35:32 <tcatm> yep
2741 2011-01-15 22:42:38 jav has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2742 2011-01-15 22:44:31 <necrodearia> ;;seen ribuck
2743 2011-01-15 22:44:31 <gribble> I have not seen ribuck.
2744 2011-01-15 22:46:48 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: I can confirm that you can still play 3d games and use the miner at the same time
2745 2011-01-15 22:47:54 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: if Windows is configured for foreground apps (priority to apps with focus), the game will grab as much of the GPU as it can, leaving ther rest to the miner
2746 2011-01-15 22:48:25 <devon_hillard> after gaming, the miner returns to full performance
2747 2011-01-15 22:52:49 * niekie bribes nathan7 for ops.
2748 2011-01-15 22:52:59 <nathan7> oops
2749 2011-01-15 22:53:03 <niekie> You missed.
2750 2011-01-15 22:53:07 <niekie> Muhaha :D
2751 2011-01-15 22:53:15 <nathan7> hey, my aim fails at ten to twelve
2752 2011-01-15 22:57:17 <ArtForz> *blink*
2753 2011-01-15 22:57:33 <ArtForz> oh, your aim
2754 2011-01-15 22:57:43 <ArtForz> nm
2755 2011-01-15 22:58:22 joe_1 has joined
2756 2011-01-15 22:59:20 Raulo has joined
2757 2011-01-15 23:06:17 <slush> tcatm: wow, really nic job. monitor show transaction almost instantly.
2758 2011-01-15 23:06:35 <tcatm> Yep.
2759 2011-01-15 23:06:54 <tcatm> Actually I'll try to build a network to add some trust to 0/unconfirmed transactions
2760 2011-01-15 23:07:07 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2761 2011-01-15 23:07:21 <slush> network?
2762 2011-01-15 23:07:32 <slush> Something like bruce's account hub? ;)
2763 2011-01-15 23:07:44 <tcatm> Yeah, but without that stupid account hub
2764 2011-01-15 23:07:45 bitanarchy has joined
2765 2011-01-15 23:08:23 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: only on some drivers on some windowses
2766 2011-01-15 23:08:23 <ArtForz> so... Something like bruce's ?
2767 2011-01-15 23:08:25 <tcatm> Basically a website where you can search for a TX hash and it shows you how well it's spread across the bitcoin network
2768 2011-01-15 23:08:26 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: it rapes on linux
2769 2011-01-15 23:15:09 <slush> tcatm: well, I'm not sure if bruce's account hub and your poposal are in opposition
2770 2011-01-15 23:15:42 <slush> tcatm: If I understand AH concept, they are trying to do payment processor network backed by bitcoin
2771 2011-01-15 23:16:08 <tcatm> They aren't. I don't like AH, though. It's tying addresses to accounts when you could just use raw bitcoin addresses.
2772 2011-01-15 23:16:24 <tcatm> Doesn't make it anything better than other "virtual" currencies
2773 2011-01-15 23:19:41 <kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2814.0
2774 2011-01-15 23:19:43 <slush> Hmm, yes. Bitcoin is great concept, but still it is just a network. It needs some applications on top to be usefull. You can't install Bitcoin client (in current form) to cash register and tell shop assistant to use it. So I appreciate every effort which brings bitcoin to people, in any way
2775 2011-01-15 23:20:30 * necrodearia boos at nathan7  ^_^
2776 2011-01-15 23:20:36 <tcatm> True, but I think there are better solutions than AH
2777 2011-01-15 23:20:43 AAA_awright_ has joined
2778 2011-01-15 23:20:54 <slush> of course there _may_ be better solution. But still isn't
2779 2011-01-15 23:21:33 <slush> I'm confused with used technologies, but maybe they will invent something usefull, who knows
2780 2011-01-15 23:21:38 AAA_awright has quit (Disconnected by services)
2781 2011-01-15 23:21:49 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2782 2011-01-15 23:22:05 <nathan7> necrodearia: sowwy
2783 2011-01-15 23:22:10 <necrodearia> it's okayz
2784 2011-01-15 23:22:22 <necrodearia> I figured nicknames beginning with n were special
2785 2011-01-15 23:23:28 <tcatm> I like the idea of having optional webwallet providers like mybitcoin that support a simple query: Get address for account X and label all incoming transactions Y. Optionally, check whether the label Y is already reserved (i.e. waiting to receive bitcoins).
2786 2011-01-15 23:24:21 pr0wler has joined
2787 2011-01-15 23:25:58 <slush> I feel that bitcoin protocol itself has potential, but until it is undocumented and cryptic, it pull people to write their own high level implementation of everything and use bitcoin itself as low level transaction medium
2788 2011-01-15 23:26:10 noagendamarket has joined
2789 2011-01-15 23:26:12 <slush> ...which is AH
2790 2011-01-15 23:26:49 <tcatm> The RPC API supports (almost) everything needed
2791 2011-01-15 23:26:54 LobsterMan has joined
2792 2011-01-15 23:26:56 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
2793 2011-01-15 23:26:56 noagendamarket has joined
2794 2011-01-15 23:27:39 <slush> I thinkg RPC api is quite bad
2795 2011-01-15 23:27:54 <tcatm> The 0.3.20 RPC API? :)
2796 2011-01-15 23:28:07 <slush> right, 0.3.19
2797 2011-01-15 23:28:09 <tcatm> 0.3.19 is buggy
2798 2011-01-15 23:28:13 <slush> I didn't tested 0.3.20
2799 2011-01-15 23:28:35 nofuture has joined
2800 2011-01-15 23:29:04 <slush> Can I finally see generated blocks in .20 API?
2801 2011-01-15 23:29:08 <tcatm> 0.3.20 is much improved. You don't even have to duplicate the transactions history in a database.
2802 2011-01-15 23:29:25 <slush> yes, which I'm doing in pool
2803 2011-01-15 23:29:34 <tcatm> After 120 confirms.
2804 2011-01-15 23:29:48 <niekie> ;)
2805 2011-01-15 23:30:07 <slush> good, this is an improvement which I appreciate
2806 2011-01-15 23:30:32 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
2807 2011-01-15 23:31:41 <tcatm> I plan to write a small mybitcoin clone using js-remote and a simple SCI that can be used for POS.
2808 2011-01-15 23:31:46 <nofuture> is Mt Goxadmin online?
2809 2011-01-15 23:32:43 <Cusipzzz> ;;seen mtgox
2810 2011-01-15 23:32:43 <gribble> mtgox was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <mtgox> EvanR-work: you have to tell me you are doing it and I'll look for the transaction in my account
2811 2011-01-15 23:32:51 <Raulo> Hi. I've got a problem with my mining hardware. I wonder if anyone experienced anything similar.
2812 2011-01-15 23:33:01 <niekie> Did it overheat? :)
2813 2011-01-15 23:33:09 <Raulo> Not yet :)
2814 2011-01-15 23:33:17 <niekie> Ah. Not similar then :P
2815 2011-01-15 23:33:26 <nofuture> gribble:thanks
2816 2011-01-15 23:33:30 <tcatm> Has it become self-aware?
2817 2011-01-15 23:33:39 <Raulo> Some graphics card-motherboard incompatibility
2818 2011-01-15 23:33:59 <Raulo> I thouth any montherboard with PCI-E will support 5850
2819 2011-01-15 23:34:10 <Raulo> But apparently not
2820 2011-01-15 23:34:20 <Raulo> I have a working 5850 on one box
2821 2011-01-15 23:34:45 <devon_hillard> is the slush pool attracting fast miners due to the small possible gains from slower miners? (when blocks are found relatively fast)
2822 2011-01-15 23:34:54 <devon_hillard> small extra gains
2823 2011-01-15 23:35:27 <devon_hillard> although slow miners also have an incentive to join due to the predictible and smoother returns
2824 2011-01-15 23:35:29 <slush> devon_hillard: 'attracting' ?
2825 2011-01-15 23:35:40 <Raulo> And I tried it on another box (in which I planned using 5970)
2826 2011-01-15 23:35:49 <Raulo> And it does not boot at all
2827 2011-01-15 23:36:07 <Raulo> Even though it works with a low-end Radon RV370
2828 2011-01-15 23:36:11 <devon_hillard> slush, I mean fast blocks have a greater chance to hit fast miners
2829 2011-01-15 23:36:31 <tcatm> devon_hillard: no
2830 2011-01-15 23:36:35 <slush> devon_hillard: No, everybody have the same chance, depends only on his hashrate
2831 2011-01-15 23:36:39 <devon_hillard> so there is a tiny (measurable) improvement through this 'wealth transfer'
2832 2011-01-15 23:36:52 <slush> devon_hillard: of course if you have 100x higher hashrate, you will have 100x more blocks
2833 2011-01-15 23:37:21 <devon_hillard> but say, a slow miner would have less chances to receive any shares from a fast block
2834 2011-01-15 23:37:42 <slush> devon_hillard: 'fast block
2835 2011-01-15 23:37:52 <devon_hillard> blocks below 1K shares
2836 2011-01-15 23:37:53 <slush> devon_hillard: => you mean block with low time to solve?
2837 2011-01-15 23:38:08 <devon_hillard> or below 500 shares
2838 2011-01-15 23:38:34 <slush> devon_hillard: Everything is about probability. When poor miner with 1 share per hour hit time frame in this 500 share, he will have 1/500 * 50 bitcoins
2839 2011-01-15 23:38:34 <[Noodles]> devon_hillard: not for me, i'm more interested in getting better averages even on a short timeframe by solving a couple of blocks a day on the pool
2840 2011-01-15 23:39:25 <devon_hillard> is the network delay reducing overall efficiency?
2841 2011-01-15 23:39:55 <slush> devon_hillard: I don't think so, because CDF http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/hall-of-fame/#cdf does not show any troubles
2842 2011-01-15 23:40:38 <slush> devon_hillard: But to be honest, tcatm disconnect from pool because it gives him lower average than he expected. So I have to check how is this possible
2843 2011-01-15 23:41:29 <devon_hillard> the miner's 'work buffer' (not sure what it's called) has to always be full, so the GPU does not stop
2844 2011-01-15 23:41:33 <slush> devon_hillard: oh, bad link :-D
2845 2011-01-15 23:41:51 <slush> devon_hillard: ==> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/graphs/#cdf
2846 2011-01-15 23:41:55 <devon_hillard> but also, when a block is found, the pools are lining up to receive new work
2847 2011-01-15 23:42:16 <devon_hillard> so everything stops for those few minutes, overall
2848 2011-01-15 23:42:29 <slush> devon_hillard: which 'minutes'?
2849 2011-01-15 23:42:31 <tcatm> devon_hillard: no, they continue to work on older blocks
2850 2011-01-15 23:42:44 <devon_hillard> could the pool work on 2 or 3 blocks at the same time?
2851 2011-01-15 23:42:50 <devon_hillard> or several more
2852 2011-01-15 23:42:51 <[Noodles]> well, if i take disconnects from miner crashes/server restarts into account, my averages on the pool are a bit lower than expected too, but so is my energy-consumption, besides that, the average rewards i got from the pool looks pretty good compared to what i should get on average mining on my own
2853 2011-01-15 23:42:57 <slush> devon_hillard: pool works on 300 blocks at the same time
2854 2011-01-15 23:43:17 <devon_hillard> ah, thought there was only one block at any one time
2855 2011-01-15 23:43:45 <devon_hillard> and the blocks are ramped up so they are spread out?
2856 2011-01-15 23:44:25 <slush> [Noodles]: But now is pool stable for you, isn't it?
2857 2011-01-15 23:44:38 <slush> [Noodles]: It didn't crashed until I moved to new server...
2858 2011-01-15 23:44:40 <[Noodles]> no, sadly it isn't
2859 2011-01-15 23:44:52 <slush> [Noodles]: Oh, your problems with miner, right?
2860 2011-01-15 23:44:54 <slush> strange
2861 2011-01-15 23:45:09 <slush> Don't know about anybody other with problems like yours
2862 2011-01-15 23:45:35 <[Noodles]> cuz i still use an old m0mchils miner, or m0mchils miner at all, even the latest versions stop working for no reason from time to time and i have to restart them
2863 2011-01-15 23:45:39 <devon_hillard> shares are distributed to all members, regardless of whether their work contributed directly to the latest block?
2864 2011-01-15 23:45:47 <devon_hillard> members that delivered work
2865 2011-01-15 23:45:56 <devon_hillard> on the current block pool
2866 2011-01-15 23:46:22 <[Noodles]> but the older version running the second 5970-gpu crashes everytime you restart the server
2867 2011-01-15 23:46:25 <slush> devon_hillard: every worker retrieve its own piece work to crunching
2868 2011-01-15 23:46:55 <slush> [Noodles]: Yes, there are big improvements in latest versions
2869 2011-01-15 23:47:13 <devon_hillard> so reward is per-block, not per-participation (with work submitted for other blocks in those 300 active blocks)?
2870 2011-01-15 23:47:15 <[Noodles]> still don't work on both GPUs
2871 2011-01-15 23:47:15 <slush> [Noodles]: Did you discussed it with m0m? Did you tried Diablo's? (sorry if I'm repeating myself)
2872 2011-01-15 23:47:44 <[Noodles]> i posted it on m0mchils thread 2 times already without getting any response to it so far
2873 2011-01-15 23:47:56 <[Noodles]> i wont spam it ^.^
2874 2011-01-15 23:48:20 <[Noodles]> and yes, Diablos works on both GPUs and might even be more stable, BUT
2875 2011-01-15 23:48:29 <[Noodles]> i can't use my desktop anymore
2876 2011-01-15 23:48:40 <[Noodles]> at least not having fun doing it
2877 2011-01-15 23:48:43 <devon_hillard> I would think if work is being delivered for an unfinished block, those participants should still receive shares overall, although that would require a more complex share-distribution scheme
2878 2011-01-15 23:49:01 <[Noodles]> no matter what -f setting, even at 320 it lags like crazy
2879 2011-01-15 23:49:45 <[Noodles]> so that would just be an option if i don't use the machine for anything else but mining, in which case i could just use linux instead :D
2880 2011-01-15 23:50:42 <slush> [Noodles]: Diablo is talking about -f 1000
2881 2011-01-15 23:50:50 <slush> [Noodles]: But I didn't try it
2882 2011-01-15 23:51:00 <ArtForz> tried OVER NINE THOUSAND?
2883 2011-01-15 23:51:43 <slush> devon_hillard: sorry, I don't catch your ideas.
2884 2011-01-15 23:52:06 <slush> devon_hillard: Are you asking how pool works? Or are you speculating why it should not work? Sorry, my english is bad
2885 2011-01-15 23:52:29 <devon_hillard> slush: so at any one time, the pool is working on 300 blocks?
2886 2011-01-15 23:53:17 <slush> devon_hillard: huh... everytime worker ask for job, server will complete source data, which constains merkle hash of current transaction + transaction for 50BTC to pool
2887 2011-01-15 23:53:42 <slush> devon_hillard: And worker computing those data with double sha256 and for every iteration increase 'nonce' +1
2888 2011-01-15 23:53:49 <slush> devon_hillard: up to 32bit limit
2889 2011-01-15 23:53:54 <slush> devon_hillard: Then ask for another job
2890 2011-01-15 23:53:58 <tcatm> half-client + bitcointools are almost a complete client that's even compatible with wallet.dat
2891 2011-01-15 23:54:07 <ArtForz> wow, neat
2892 2011-01-15 23:54:31 <slush> devon_hillard: so, every worker have unique job and don't know about any other worker
2893 2011-01-15 23:54:39 <slush> devon_hillard: you can call it 'working on separate block'
2894 2011-01-15 23:55:00 <devon_hillard> slush: so the pool is crunching one (50 BTC) block at any one time?
2895 2011-01-15 23:55:05 <slush> devon_hillard: but once worker find a hash with zeros, submit it to pool. It is share. If there are enough zeros in hash, it _may_ be also bitcoin block
2896 2011-01-15 23:55:14 <slush> devon_hillard: yes
2897 2011-01-15 23:55:39 <slush> devon_hillard: once one worker find a block, source data for all worker changed...
2898 2011-01-15 23:55:44 <kiba> why do in the world do people live in Alaska?
2899 2011-01-15 23:55:45 cdecker has joined
2900 2011-01-15 23:55:53 <devon_hillard> slush: ah, ok, I meant that the pool could work on several 50BTC blocks at the same time, then smooth out shares over time
2901 2011-01-15 23:56:25 <slush> devon_hillard: no, shares are only low-difficulty proof of works, not valid hashes
2902 2011-01-15 23:56:34 <slush> devon_hillard: It is just check if worker is doing something
2903 2011-01-15 23:56:36 <ArtForz> kiba: *puzzled look*
2904 2011-01-15 23:56:41 <tcatm> anyone care to collect a database of known donation addresses?
2905 2011-01-15 23:56:54 <slush> devon_hillard: And thanks to those submitted PoW find block is divided between active workers
2906 2011-01-15 23:57:32 <devon_hillard> slush: so, well, if the pool speed increases, this makes it less likely for slow crunchers to get shares on fast blocks (blocks with few shares)
2907 2011-01-15 23:57:53 <slush> tcatm: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AoZuext-s46CdHp2YmlXWkxMd0FzbloyMUcwZVdET1E&hl=en&gid=3
2908 2011-01-15 23:57:53 <devon_hillard> so the pool could be split up between several 50BTC blocks
2909 2011-01-15 23:58:02 <devon_hillard> but distribute shares with a moving average
2910 2011-01-15 23:58:04 <ArtForz> devon: moesnt datter
2911 2011-01-15 23:58:15 <ArtForz> it still comes out to the same average in the end
2912 2011-01-15 23:58:52 <slush> devon_hillard: why splitting, why moving averages?
2913 2011-01-15 23:59:30 <[Noodles]> i'm just running Diablo -f 1000 right now and it still takes some time to push the mouse around, or for the cursor to move, hashcount is down by ~75M already compared to the 2 m0mchil-threads, no big difference to a miner idle, or killed every once in while, except for the lagging desktop
2914 2011-01-15 23:59:31 <slush> devon_hillard: Pool never mine more than miners working standalone, talking about veeery long time
2915 2011-01-15 23:59:32 <tcatm> slush: thanks!
2916 2011-01-15 23:59:51 <devon_hillard> hm... I guess smoothing out returns for slow miners would add volatility to fast miners