1 2011-01-20 00:02:34 <gigitrix> yeah, I just think in terms of functions: add ( x , y ) which is really another thing entirely...
2 2011-01-20 00:03:56 <andrew12^mac> well technically x+y is a function
3 2011-01-20 00:04:08 <andrew12^mac> __add__ or something (in python :p)
4 2011-01-20 00:04:22 <ArtForz> yep
5 2011-01-20 00:04:46 <andrew12^mac> in ruby the function is just called +, because it's cool like that
6 2011-01-20 00:04:53 <andrew12^mac> 1.+(2) == 3
7 2011-01-20 00:04:58 <andrew12^mac> == is a function 2
8 2011-01-20 00:04:59 <andrew12^mac> er
9 2011-01-20 00:05:00 <andrew12^mac> too
10 2011-01-20 00:05:01 <ArtForz> I think technically even x is a function
11 2011-01-20 00:05:24 <andrew12^mac> sure
12 2011-01-20 00:06:54 <andrew12^mac> http://codepad.org/vX7RJVob -- example in ruby.
13 2011-01-20 00:08:21 <andrew12^mac> though its short enough i could've just posted it here. heh
14 2011-01-20 00:09:17 <Kiba> somebody on the forum cross a line today
15 2011-01-20 00:10:36 mtgox has joined
16 2011-01-20 00:13:33 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
17 2011-01-20 00:18:19 ApertureScience has joined
18 2011-01-20 00:18:48 <andrew12^mac> this was a triumph...
19 2011-01-20 00:18:56 * Diablo-D3 hums the tune
20 2011-01-20 00:19:17 akem has joined
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22 2011-01-20 00:19:17 akem has joined
23 2011-01-20 00:19:53 <Kiba> nanaimogold decided to gay bashing cloaked in sexual euphemisms and hard words
24 2011-01-20 00:20:09 <Kiba> to do gay bashing*
25 2011-01-20 00:20:33 <Diablo-D3> well, he'll be fucked in the ass over that
26 2011-01-20 00:20:37 <Diablo-D3> and probably end up doing hard time
27 2011-01-20 00:20:49 <Kiba> nanaimogold?
28 2011-01-20 00:20:52 <Diablo-D3> I mean, he really had the balls to do that
29 2011-01-20 00:21:01 <Diablo-D3> he must have thought hard and long on what to say
30 2011-01-20 00:21:21 <Kiba> well, it took me a while to parse his arguments
31 2011-01-20 00:21:32 <Kiba> he's really gay bashing brucewagner...
32 2011-01-20 00:21:53 <Diablo-D3> was I too subtle? :<
33 2011-01-20 00:22:13 <Kiba> it might be a little too early to bring in the banhamer
34 2011-01-20 00:22:17 <Kiba> s/hamer/hammer
35 2011-01-20 00:22:32 <andrew12^mac> banhamhar
36 2011-01-20 00:22:54 <Diablo-D3> VAN HAMMAR
37 2011-01-20 00:23:15 <Diablo-D3> halt, hammerzeit!
38 2011-01-20 00:25:56 <Kiba> anyway
39 2011-01-20 00:26:01 <Kiba> I am sooooooooo tired
40 2011-01-20 00:26:04 <andrew12^mac> what's the irc network/channel that the client goes to to get initial peers?
41 2011-01-20 00:26:40 <andrew12^mac> Kiba: take a nap :P
42 2011-01-20 00:27:15 <Kiba> offensive: to cause anger, resentment, upset
43 2011-01-20 00:27:23 <Kiba> I certainly feel some anger
44 2011-01-20 00:29:28 <sgornick> andrew12^mac: This what you are asking about? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Network#IRC
45 2011-01-20 00:30:37 <andrew12^mac> yes, thanks
46 2011-01-20 00:30:55 <Diablo-D3> see
47 2011-01-20 00:30:59 <Diablo-D3> why am I wasting comedy on you fags
48 2011-01-20 00:31:13 <andrew12^mac> you're so nice
49 2011-01-20 00:31:23 <molecular> hey, grad hier reingeschaut, was geht'n hier ab?
50 2011-01-20 00:31:38 <andrew12^mac> hahahaha, only 5 clients on the testnet
51 2011-01-20 00:32:47 <andrew12^mac> the nicks've gotta be base58
52 2011-01-20 00:34:34 <andrew12^mac> or something like that. hmm
53 2011-01-20 00:39:40 gavinandresen has joined
54 2011-01-20 00:41:33 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: I was thinking of resetting the testnet with a new genesis block and modified difficulty adjustment rules... (just saw the discussion of overtaking current testnet)
55 2011-01-20 00:42:22 <ArtForz> that'd work, too
56 2011-01-20 00:43:00 davux has joined
57 2011-01-20 00:43:03 <gavinandresen> I'm also thinking about the possibility of somebody disrupting the main chain by throwing lots of hashing power at it, then withdrawing.
58 2011-01-20 00:43:03 <davux> hi :)
59 2011-01-20 00:43:23 <gavinandresen> (ArtForz: I think I've seen you mention that before, too)
60 2011-01-20 00:43:31 <ArtForz> yep
61 2011-01-20 00:44:04 <gavinandresen> I'm thinking it might be a good idea for the client to detect if blocks are being generated "too fast", and reject blocks in that case.
62 2011-01-20 00:44:59 <andrew12^mac> hehe, make the testnet give everyone 50 BTC after an hour. no hashing at all :P
63 2011-01-20 00:45:14 <andrew12^mac> though i guess that wouldn't work
64 2011-01-20 00:45:18 <ArtForz> I dont see how that stops anyone with >50% total hashrate from driving up difficulty indefinetly
65 2011-01-20 00:45:20 <andrew12^mac> since you can't verify etc.
66 2011-01-20 00:45:20 <gavinandresen> I wish I'd taken statistics... I think we need a rule that is something like "if the last N blocks were generated in less than T seconds, then that is likely to happen by chance only 1 in 10,000 times..." .... so invalidate last block...
67 2011-01-20 00:46:16 <tcatm> In that case the miner could adjust nTime to not trigger that rule
68 2011-01-20 00:46:16 <nanotube> gavinandresen: but what if someone legitimately buys 1thps hardware, and starts generating blocks? you want to prevent him from getting the blocks?
69 2011-01-20 00:46:18 <gavinandresen> They can drive up difficulty, but they'll have to take longer to do it.
70 2011-01-20 00:46:22 <ArtForz> so the attacker changes his code to barely stay under the limit
71 2011-01-20 00:46:45 <ArtForz> as long as he can still cause *4/period, it's the same thing
72 2011-01-20 00:47:02 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: sure. But if they're required to wait that gives other generators time to have a chance to generate.... (maybe... all this is half-baked ideas)
73 2011-01-20 00:47:12 <ArtForz> how would that work?
74 2011-01-20 00:47:16 noagendamarket has joined
75 2011-01-20 00:47:17 * andrew12^mac puts the ideas in the oven
76 2011-01-20 00:47:28 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
77 2011-01-20 00:47:29 noagendamarket has joined
78 2011-01-20 00:47:52 <ArtForz> attacker starts generating from a earlier block in the chain, at a constant claimed 150 sec/block
79 2011-01-20 00:48:23 <ArtForz> if he has more hashrate than main net, at some point his chain *will* have higher totalwork than main chain and it takes over
80 2011-01-20 00:49:25 <ArtForz> I don't really see how you can prevent that
81 2011-01-20 00:49:51 <ArtForz> you cant use the time when you received the block for anything, except checking that the block isn't from the future
82 2011-01-20 00:50:19 OneFixt has quit ()
83 2011-01-20 00:50:47 <tcatm> Solution: Add hashing power to the network so an attacker can't throw a significant amount of hashing power to the chain?
84 2011-01-20 00:51:21 <ArtForz> yeah, but thats the general solution to "attacker with more hashrate than rest of network"
85 2011-01-20 00:51:36 <gavinandresen> Regular block lock-ins would mitigate the "create a longer chain and spring it on everybody by surprise".... but I'm mostly worried about the "drive up difficulty, then leave" problem
86 2011-01-20 00:51:59 <gavinandresen> (although whether or not that would ever be a real problem for the main chain is debatable)
87 2011-01-20 00:52:22 <ArtForz> hmmm
88 2011-01-20 00:52:44 <ArtForz> I doubt it'll help
89 2011-01-20 00:53:04 <ArtForz> even without rewriting history someone with "simple majority" can create blocks with fake timestamps
90 2011-01-20 00:53:36 <ArtForz> with enough > 50%, he can just fork the chain whenever someone else mines a block (which would have a "real" timestamp
91 2011-01-20 00:54:02 <molecular> gavinandresen, how does the "drive up difficulty, then leave"-attack work?
92 2011-01-20 00:54:08 <ArtForz> so the attacker-created blocks end up more and more "in the past" from the view of "legit" miners
93 2011-01-20 00:54:33 <ArtForz> doesnt matter thoguh
94 2011-01-20 00:54:40 <molecular> I never understood the timestamping-problem. why's the block-chain of transaction not enough?
95 2011-01-20 00:54:45 <ArtForz> as long as that chain is longer, legit miners *will* try to build on it
96 2011-01-20 00:55:15 <andrew12^mac> tcatm: in http://pastebin.com/NybAaUtr , what is bitcoin.py? you didn't give me that :p
97 2011-01-20 00:55:27 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
98 2011-01-20 00:55:29 <ArtForz> so all attacker needs to drive difficulty up by 4x is more-than-rest-of-network hashrate for 2016 blocks
99 2011-01-20 00:55:31 <andrew12^mac> (that's the thing for #bitcoin-monitor
100 2011-01-20 00:55:32 <gavinandresen> molecular: it is the problem the testnet is currently suffering from-- miners joined, created blocks really fast, difficulty went way up, then miners left. It will take months for difficulty to drift back down, and in the meantime confirmations are taking 2 or three hours
101 2011-01-20 00:55:44 <noagendamarket> That means we need to take steps to increase the hash rate of the network. Im writing something up that might help do that
102 2011-01-20 00:55:51 <ArtForz> you see the problem
103 2011-01-20 00:56:03 <Kiba> the testnet even have an exchange rate!
104 2011-01-20 00:56:08 <molecular> gavinandresen, ah, so it's not an attack to steal sth, just to destroy network/currency?
105 2011-01-20 00:56:15 <gavinandresen> molecular: yup
106 2011-01-20 00:56:30 <ArtForz> attacker with >rest-of-network hashrate can just make normal miner mined blocks "go away"
107 2011-01-20 00:56:46 <molecular> if you need some reliable mining on your testnet, I could contribute a little (ca via c7 and other small cpus)
108 2011-01-20 00:56:50 <ArtForz> attacker also can pretty freely choose nTime spacing in his blocks
109 2011-01-20 00:57:09 <molecular> then the "damage of leaving of a lot of power" will be lessened
110 2011-01-20 00:57:13 <ArtForz> so lets say the attacker uses 150 sec, to get a x4 increase next diff
111 2011-01-20 00:57:30 <andrew12^mac> molecular: i don't think they're really worried about that. the testnet is indeed a test network. :p
112 2011-01-20 00:57:31 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: my intuition is that if 'take-over-the-chain' attacks take "human-length" time to carry out (days or weeks), then we can react while they are happening...
113 2011-01-20 00:57:35 <molecular> what would be a typical difficulty on the testnet?
114 2011-01-20 00:57:56 <theymos> For the "drive up difficulty" attack, could a retarget be forced if a block is ever accepted with an nTime 3+ hours since the last one?
115 2011-01-20 00:58:11 <molecular> ArtForz, how do you humanly react to a chain-takeover?
116 2011-01-20 00:58:22 <ArtForz> thats the question
117 2011-01-20 00:58:29 <tcatm> andrew12^mac: http://pastebin.com/HvDffWNG
118 2011-01-20 00:58:39 <molecular> you dont, I think. you're screwed
119 2011-01-20 00:58:46 <ArtForz> not really
120 2011-01-20 00:58:56 <molecular> enlighten me
121 2011-01-20 00:59:02 pr0wler has quit (Quit: :-)
122 2011-01-20 00:59:07 <gavinandresen> Humanly react to a chain takeover: we look at the blocks they're generating, figure out what they're trying to do (double spend? drop valid transactions). and react.
123 2011-01-20 00:59:13 <ArtForz> once the attack stops you can just look where the "too fast" blocks started and get a majority of miners to restart work from there
124 2011-01-20 00:59:20 OneFixt has joined
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126 2011-01-20 00:59:32 OneFixt has joined
127 2011-01-20 00:59:36 <molecular> I understand the reset procedure
128 2011-01-20 00:59:41 <molecular> it might work
129 2011-01-20 00:59:43 <andrew12^mac> tcatm: how about extract_public_key()? i don't see that anywhere.
130 2011-01-20 00:59:55 <tcatm> andrew12^mac: it's from bitcointools
131 2011-01-20 01:00:09 <ArtForz> worked fine for purging the 0.3.8 overflow transactions from the chain
132 2011-01-20 01:00:13 <molecular> my problem is the "magic" in between "figure out what they're trying to do" and "react"
133 2011-01-20 01:00:15 <andrew12^mac> oic
134 2011-01-20 01:01:16 <gavinandresen> So lets say an attacker decided to split the block chain at the last block checkin (which was a couple months ago, at block 74000-something).
135 2011-01-20 01:01:44 <ArtForz> *assumed*
136 2011-01-20 01:01:46 <gavinandresen> That'd cause chaos-- all sorts of "confirmed" transactions would be invalid, because they use generated coins on the now-invalid chain.
137 2011-01-20 01:01:47 <ArtForz> next?
138 2011-01-20 01:01:52 <ArtForz> yep
139 2011-01-20 01:02:26 <molecular> ArtForz, you still didn't tell me how we can defend a chain-takeover. at least not satisfyingly enough.
140 2011-01-20 01:02:28 <gavinandresen> Human reaction: release a client that rejects the 'bad split' block (explictly, by hash)
141 2011-01-20 01:02:33 <ArtForz> solution: put a checkpoint on the "right" chain one block after the attackers chain split
142 2011-01-20 01:02:48 <gavinandresen> yup
143 2011-01-20 01:02:49 <ArtForz> clients ith that will just ignore the whole new chain
144 2011-01-20 01:03:08 <nanotube> ArtForz: but if the attacker has the hash power... he can just keep doing it, and you have to keep releasing new checkpoints every day?
145 2011-01-20 01:03:11 <molecular> wweeewe
146 2011-01-20 01:03:16 <theymos> There's not much point in doing that until real clients regain control of the network, though.
147 2011-01-20 01:03:16 <ArtForz> not really every day
148 2011-01-20 01:03:24 <nanotube> theymos: right
149 2011-01-20 01:03:31 <ArtForz> if an attacker can overtake the chain up until "now" form block 74000 in a day, we have other problems
150 2011-01-20 01:03:33 <molecular> oh, sorry, this was mplayer commands to the wrong channel ;)
151 2011-01-20 01:03:44 <nanotube> ArtForz: doesn't have to be from block 74000
152 2011-01-20 01:03:47 <nanotube> ;;bc,blocks
153 2011-01-20 01:03:48 <gribble> 103550
154 2011-01-20 01:03:58 <nanotube> ArtForz: he could do that since say, 10 blocks ago
155 2011-01-20 01:03:58 <molecular> ArtForz, 74000? then: YES
156 2011-01-20 01:04:15 <nanotube> with .5thps, he could keep doing that multiple times every day.
157 2011-01-20 01:04:28 <ArtForz> yep
158 2011-01-20 01:04:51 <ArtForz> and theres still the good old "generate valid timestamps, just fork whenever soemone else finds a block" method
159 2011-01-20 01:05:10 <ArtForz> akas "yay, guaranteed 7200 btc/day, and I can block any TX I don't like"
160 2011-01-20 01:05:45 <nanotube> right
161 2011-01-20 01:05:59 <nanotube> the only solution is to have more hash power on the net. :)
162 2011-01-20 01:06:18 <gavinandresen> that'd be a much stealthier way of subverting trust -- randomly throw away transactions.
163 2011-01-20 01:07:16 <ArtForz> "add a 10% fee or your transaction will stay at 0/unconfirmed forever"
164 2011-01-20 01:07:27 <gavinandresen> But we could detect that, too-- look for constant block chain splits, where some set of valid transactions was constantly excluded from the 'new good' chain
165 2011-01-20 01:07:59 <molecular> gavinandresen, don't judge a book by it's cover
166 2011-01-20 01:08:05 <ArtForz> well, similar splits can happen in a legit fashion
167 2011-01-20 01:08:06 <gavinandresen> molecular: huh?
168 2011-01-20 01:08:22 <gavinandresen> the splits aren't the problem, the excluding transactions is.
169 2011-01-20 01:08:29 <molecular> "detecting behavioural pattern" should defend xzy-attac
170 2011-01-20 01:09:05 <ArtForz> yeah, just wondering if something like that could happen legitimately
171 2011-01-20 01:09:14 <gavinandresen> Actually, I suspect miners that don't include ANY transactions in their generated blocks will become a problem sooner rather than later....
172 2011-01-20 01:09:36 <theymos> That'll eventually become unprofitable when subsidies are reduced.
173 2011-01-20 01:09:40 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: a false positive just means your mined block is rejected. That's not a big deal.
174 2011-01-20 01:09:48 <molecular> ArtForz, you're last affirmation: "add a 10% fee or your transaction will stay at 0/unconfirmed forever", however indirect, implies that transaction fees are fail?
175 2011-01-20 01:09:57 <ArtForz> *puts 50btc->self tx in every block* what empty blocks?
176 2011-01-20 01:10:12 <andrew12^mac> hehe
177 2011-01-20 01:10:40 <ArtForz> hrrrm
178 2011-01-20 01:10:43 <ArtForz> true
179 2011-01-20 01:11:11 <ArtForz> rules like that might be a problem if we have miners with silighly different interpretations of what a valid TX is though
180 2011-01-20 01:11:19 <gavinandresen> Hmm... getting back to statistics... when transaction volume picks up blocks with too-many-standard-deviations-away-from-average-number-of-txn-in-block could be rejected....
181 2011-01-20 01:11:34 <gavinandresen> That'd actually work as a throttle on how fast you could generate, too....
182 2011-01-20 01:11:56 <gavinandresen> (ok, ok, you could generate as many sends-to-self as you want)
183 2011-01-20 01:12:17 <andrew12^mac> someone do a tx so i can see if this works :p
184 2011-01-20 01:12:53 <andrew12^mac> there's one
185 2011-01-20 01:13:13 <andrew12^mac> cool. :]
186 2011-01-20 01:13:24 <ArtForz> yep
187 2011-01-20 01:13:50 <ArtForz> I could see a problem with detecting "excessive chain forks" in a split-chain scenario
188 2011-01-20 01:14:10 <ArtForz> = something like the 0.3.8 -> 0.3.10 chain forking
189 2011-01-20 01:14:18 <andrew12^mac> gavinandresen: put an empty __init__.py in bitcointools so "import bitcointools.transaction works :p
190 2011-01-20 01:14:23 <andrew12^mac> er..
191 2011-01-20 01:14:27 <andrew12^mac> "import bitcointools.transaction"
192 2011-01-20 01:14:44 <andrew12^mac> et al.
193 2011-01-20 01:15:07 <ArtForz> random example: lets say someone actually *does* implement something like bitDNS on the main chain, with 10BTC/tx fees
194 2011-01-20 01:15:30 <andrew12^mac> bitDNS?
195 2011-01-20 01:16:03 <ArtForz> purists decide that having "extra data" in the chain is heresy, fork bitcoin to declare !isStadnard() TX after block X invalid
196 2011-01-20 01:16:42 <ArtForz> aka "whoops"
197 2011-01-20 01:17:53 <gavinandresen> yeah... there will be two block chains... transactions will get added to both of them, and depending on which client you have you'll think one or the other is valid....
198 2011-01-20 01:17:59 <ArtForz> yep
199 2011-01-20 01:18:09 ducki2p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
200 2011-01-20 01:18:42 <ArtForz> normal transactions not depending on newly mined coins will end up in both chains, bitDNS/whatever and TX (partially)from newly mined blocks only in one chain
201 2011-01-20 01:19:01 <gavinandresen> yup
202 2011-01-20 01:20:36 <ArtForz> you'd also have miners split over both chains very quickly
203 2011-01-20 01:21:07 <ArtForz> because each of the now-split chains now produces 50btc/block only valid on that chain
204 2011-01-20 01:21:39 <gavinandresen> yup. If the situation didn't resolve itself, old coins would become more valuable (because they could be spent on either chain)... maybe there'd be a client that kept two balances for you for both chains....
205 2011-01-20 01:22:28 <ArtForz> yep
206 2011-01-20 01:22:53 <gavinandresen> But I don't really see that happening-- one or the other would have a majority, and whichever one the big exchanges/merchants/etc decided was "it" would be "it"
207 2011-01-20 01:23:01 <molecular> did any of you ever put a knot in your headphone-cables to make it shorter?
208 2011-01-20 01:23:10 <Kiba> phew
209 2011-01-20 01:23:13 <ArtForz> hmmm... yeah
210 2011-01-20 01:23:27 <Diablo-D3> molecular: no
211 2011-01-20 01:23:34 <Diablo-D3> then again I have a springy cord on mine
212 2011-01-20 01:23:50 <Kiba> gavinandresen: earning any bitcoin so far from clearcoin?
213 2011-01-20 01:24:18 * molecular loves his new head-phones and also "mplayer -af bs2b" (aka: headroom extension)
214 2011-01-20 01:24:29 <molecular> oh shit, I'm offtopic, sorry
215 2011-01-20 01:24:32 <gavinandresen> Kiba: a few-- not many, yet. The bitcoin economy is still tiny.
216 2011-01-20 01:25:06 <Kiba> finding work is hard...
217 2011-01-20 01:25:12 * Kiba fails to pipeline any projects
218 2011-01-20 01:25:14 <molecular> tiny enough for someone to adjust the exchange-rate from 0.4 to 0.3 within a coupl'o'hours?
219 2011-01-20 01:25:22 <Kiba> already finished a freelance job
220 2011-01-20 01:25:30 <Kiba> and working on finishing off noagendamarket's
221 2011-01-20 01:25:46 <Kiba> but I got no upcoming projects
222 2011-01-20 01:26:21 <ArtForz> btw, who complained that there are no decent EUR or LREUR asks on BC?
223 2011-01-20 01:26:40 OneFixt_ has joined
224 2011-01-20 01:26:49 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
225 2011-01-20 01:26:51 <molecular> i didnt
226 2011-01-20 01:26:57 <molecular> afaik
227 2011-01-20 01:27:03 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
228 2011-01-20 01:27:05 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
229 2011-01-20 01:27:05 OneFixt has joined
230 2011-01-20 01:27:52 <Kiba> who's using the new advertising clearing house that biomike created?
231 2011-01-20 01:27:58 lfm has joined
232 2011-01-20 01:32:58 Cusipzzz has joined
233 2011-01-20 01:33:10 <andrew12^mac> hmm, anyone here have an open testnet node that I can connect to? trying to see if this script works with testnet
234 2011-01-20 01:33:34 <tcatm> andrew12^mac: 85.116.192.135
235 2011-01-20 01:33:43 <andrew12^mac> ty
236 2011-01-20 01:34:10 <andrew12^mac> heh, of course it didn't work
237 2011-01-20 01:34:21 <andrew12^mac> (the node worked :p)
238 2011-01-20 01:34:40 <tcatm> You tried to use bitcoin.py to connect to testnet?
239 2011-01-20 01:34:50 <andrew12^mac> yes.
240 2011-01-20 01:34:58 <andrew12^mac> if self.recvbuf[:4] != "\xf9\xbe\xb4\xd9": - ding
241 2011-01-20 01:35:05 <ArtForz> yep
242 2011-01-20 01:35:36 <gavinandresen> Any fool KNOWS testnet is fabfb5da!!
243 2011-01-20 01:35:58 <ArtForz> hehehe
244 2011-01-20 01:35:59 <andrew12^mac> :p
245 2011-01-20 01:36:01 <andrew12^mac> I do now
246 2011-01-20 01:36:08 <andrew12^mac> error: uncaptured python exception, closing channel <__main__.NodeConn connected at 0x5e02d8> (<type 'exceptions.ValueError'>:got garbage '\xfa\xbf\xb5\xdaversion\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00U\x00\x00\x00\x9e|\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\xdb\x8f7M\x00\x00\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\xff\xffG\xa6\x85\x92\xe5\xa8\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\xff\
247 2011-01-20 01:36:16 <andrew12^mac> '\xfa\xbf\xb5\xda'
248 2011-01-20 01:36:19 <andrew12^mac> ^_^
249 2011-01-20 01:36:58 <andrew12^mac> now it should work
250 2011-01-20 01:37:26 * andrew12^mac makes the test faucet send bitcoins to itself
251 2011-01-20 01:37:30 <andrew12^mac> er, test coins.
252 2011-01-20 01:37:31 <andrew12^mac> :p
253 2011-01-20 01:38:29 <andrew12^mac> oh
254 2011-01-20 01:38:56 <andrew12^mac> apparently i've gotta modify more than just this line. heh
255 2011-01-20 01:40:55 <gigitrix> right guys, see you later. I hope to have something to show advert wise within the week,but exam revision takes precedence :)
256 2011-01-20 01:41:20 <andrew12^mac> cya
257 2011-01-20 01:41:52 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
258 2011-01-20 01:41:52 gigitrix has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
259 2011-01-20 01:42:43 <andrew12^mac> self.net = TESTNET if testnet == True else MAINNET -- that works, right? :p
260 2011-01-20 01:43:05 <andrew12^mac> adding testnet as an argument to __init__
261 2011-01-20 01:43:49 <andrew12^mac> TESTNET, MAINNET = '\xfa\xbf\xb5\xda', '\xf9\xbe\xb4\xd9' btw.
262 2011-01-20 01:44:00 * andrew12^mac writes code all over the channel
263 2011-01-20 01:44:52 chuck251 has joined
264 2011-01-20 01:46:18 <tcatm> andrew12^mac: auto-detect network type ;)
265 2011-01-20 01:46:35 <andrew12^mac> too much effort required .-.
266 2011-01-20 01:46:36 <andrew12^mac> :p
267 2011-01-20 01:48:02 <tcatm> if port == 18333: testnet else mainnet
268 2011-01-20 01:48:30 <andrew12^mac> well you can't get the port from CAddress easily
269 2011-01-20 01:48:40 <andrew12^mac> unless i just have it set a global
270 2011-01-20 01:48:42 * andrew12^mac hack hack hack
271 2011-01-20 01:49:32 <tcatm> def __init__(..): self.testnet = port == 18333
272 2011-01-20 01:50:16 * andrew12^mac holds control z for a while
273 2011-01-20 01:58:31 <andrew12^mac> 0x8BADF00D
274 2011-01-20 02:03:21 redMBA has joined
275 2011-01-20 02:03:37 <andrew12^mac> hmm
276 2011-01-20 02:03:40 <andrew12^mac> error: uncaptured python exception, closing channel <__main__.NodeConn connected at 0x5e1328> (<type 'exceptions.ValueError'>:got garbage '\xb8\xd2:w' [/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/asyncore.py|read|76] [/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/asyncore.py|handle_read_event|416] [bitcoin.py|handle_read|533] [bitcoin.py|got_data|550])
277 2011-01-20 02:04:39 <andrew12^mac> hmm
278 2011-01-20 02:04:42 <andrew12^mac> this time it got '\x08\xcb\xe8\x14'
279 2011-01-20 02:05:33 <ArtForz> = you messed up
280 2011-01-20 02:06:03 <andrew12^mac> .-.
281 2011-01-20 02:08:18 <noagendamarket> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2884.new#new I just submitted this to the forum. I hope everyone likes the idea.
282 2011-01-20 02:08:25 <andrew12^mac> well, here's what i have: http://pastebin.com/rMjWHnNA
283 2011-01-20 02:09:28 <andrew12^mac> noagendamarket: so THAT's the domain you were talking about!
284 2011-01-20 02:09:47 <noagendamarket> yes
285 2011-01-20 02:10:06 <andrew12^mac> err, is it bitcoind.net or bitcoind.org? you changed it halfway
286 2011-01-20 02:10:31 <ArtForz> all of em
287 2011-01-20 02:10:32 <noagendamarket> I have all the domains lol
288 2011-01-20 02:10:38 <andrew12^mac> oh
289 2011-01-20 02:10:41 <andrew12^mac> cool
290 2011-01-20 02:10:41 <andrew12^mac> lol
291 2011-01-20 02:10:49 <noagendamarket> the code the economy and the server are separate
292 2011-01-20 02:11:03 <noagendamarket> But one
293 2011-01-20 02:12:18 <lfm> $100? you mean 350BTC?
294 2011-01-20 02:12:42 <noagendamarket> Yeah that
295 2011-01-20 02:12:52 andrew12^mac is now known as tandrew
296 2011-01-20 02:12:55 <noagendamarket> Ill change it I was in ahurry to type it up
297 2011-01-20 02:14:00 tandrew is now known as andrew1^mac
298 2011-01-20 02:14:04 andrew1^mac is now known as andrew12^mac
299 2011-01-20 02:14:38 <andrew12^mac> lemme know when the channel is registered noagendamarket :p
300 2011-01-20 02:14:47 <noagendamarket> I will
301 2011-01-20 02:14:52 <andrew12^mac> or at least, when you've regained op
302 2011-01-20 02:22:27 kermit has joined
303 2011-01-20 02:34:41 <andrew12_> hmm
304 2011-01-20 02:34:52 <jgarzik> mmmmmm
305 2011-01-20 02:35:00 <noagendamarket> ummmmmmm
306 2011-01-20 02:35:06 <andrew12_> o_o
307 2011-01-20 02:35:11 <noagendamarket> lol
308 2011-01-20 02:35:19 <noagendamarket> haiku ?
309 2011-01-20 02:36:08 <andrew12_> Haikus are easy.
310 2011-01-20 02:36:13 <andrew12_> But sometimes they don't make sense.
311 2011-01-20 02:36:16 <andrew12_> Refrigerator.
312 2011-01-20 02:37:00 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 7000000
313 2011-01-20 02:37:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 3 hours, 8 minutes, and 32 seconds
314 2011-01-20 02:37:34 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 7340032
315 2011-01-20 02:37:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7340032 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 2 hours, 59 minutes, and 48 seconds
316 2011-01-20 02:37:59 <andrew12_> hmm
317 2011-01-20 02:38:28 <andrew12_> I wonder if I'd be able to set up an amazon ec2 instance and use it for a mining pool... maybe have it take out a bit of money to be able to pay for it :p
318 2011-01-20 02:38:47 <noagendamarket> you probably could
319 2011-01-20 02:39:40 <andrew12_> slush should opensource the code for his pool :P
320 2011-01-20 02:39:48 <necrodearia> the pool is closed
321 2011-01-20 02:40:04 <dirtyfilthy> haha
322 2011-01-20 02:40:07 <andrew12_> heh
323 2011-01-20 02:40:31 * tcatm is working on a getwork replacement
324 2011-01-20 02:40:38 <andrew12_> replacment?
325 2011-01-20 02:40:50 <andrew12_> what will it replace?
326 2011-01-20 02:40:54 <tcatm> yep. getwork sucks
327 2011-01-20 02:41:01 <necrodearia> getfun is better
328 2011-01-20 02:41:06 <andrew12_> heh
329 2011-01-20 02:41:09 <tcatm> pushfun :P
330 2011-01-20 02:42:33 <andrew12_> hm
331 2011-01-20 02:48:44 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
332 2011-01-20 02:48:50 * andrew12_ pokes noagendamarket in question
333 2011-01-20 02:50:05 andrew12_ is now known as andrew12
334 2011-01-20 02:50:10 <necrodearia> Everyone can now rejoin #bitcoind
335 2011-01-20 02:50:13 <andrew12> yay
336 2011-01-20 02:50:29 <necrodearia> tcatm, o/ niekie o/
337 2011-01-20 02:51:24 <xelister> andrew12: it was discussed few days ago. amazon ec2 is far from being profitable (like x5-x10 too expensive)
338 2011-01-20 02:51:30 <noagendamarket> we are back in action
339 2011-01-20 02:51:53 <andrew12> xelister: not if it was running a pool
340 2011-01-20 02:52:28 <andrew12> which is what i was thinking of doing
341 2011-01-20 02:52:46 <noagendamarket> andrew join #bitcoind
342 2011-01-20 02:52:49 <andrew12> i am
343 2011-01-20 02:52:53 <noagendamarket> heh
344 2011-01-20 02:53:00 <dirtyfilthy> what advantages would your pool have over existing pools?
345 2011-01-20 02:53:16 <[Noodles]> and what would make it profitable?
346 2011-01-20 02:53:23 <andrew12> dirtyfilthy: honestly the only advantages would be that it's a separate pool
347 2011-01-20 02:53:35 <dirtyfilthy> you're not selling it to me ;)
348 2011-01-20 02:53:54 <andrew12> [Noodles]: the blocks the pool generates? it would only take like 2 btc each block (maybe more initially)
349 2011-01-20 02:54:24 <[Noodles]> 2btc that others generate
350 2011-01-20 02:54:28 <noagendamarket> If the server is generating coins you dont have to yake anything from the pool
351 2011-01-20 02:54:35 <noagendamarket> *take
352 2011-01-20 02:54:49 <andrew12> noagendamarket: not if the server never ends up generating anything
353 2011-01-20 02:54:54 <noagendamarket> it simply adds hash power to the beast lol
354 2011-01-20 02:55:33 <andrew12> i dunno. this is honestly just an idea
355 2011-01-20 02:55:44 <andrew12> i could make it so people just send money to help pay for it
356 2011-01-20 02:56:03 <andrew12> ;;bc,mtgox
357 2011-01-20 02:56:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.313,"low":0.305,"vol":7312,"buy":0.3031,"sell":0.3199,"last":0.313}}
358 2011-01-20 02:58:22 <andrew12> ;;calc 0.68/0.32
359 2011-01-20 02:58:23 <gribble> 0.68 / 0.32 = 2.12500
360 2011-01-20 02:59:15 <andrew12> (for mining, possibly) amazon ec2 extra large "High-CPU On-Demand Instances" is 2.125 BTC/hour
361 2011-01-20 02:59:25 <[Noodles]> if mining on amazon costs more than it generates, it makes no sense to make it a pool-server, you can just choose any other hosting solution, if it generates more than it costs, it would be profitabel even generating on its own
362 2011-01-20 02:59:42 <andrew12> ;;calc 0.02/0.32
363 2011-01-20 02:59:43 <gribble> 0.02 / 0.32 = 0.0625
364 2011-01-20 03:00:20 <andrew12> 0.0625 BTC/hour with the micro.. that's just a little more than what you get from the faucet ;)
365 2011-01-20 03:00:31 <andrew12> but it is the micro.
366 2011-01-20 03:00:55 <andrew12> ;;calc 0.085/0.32
367 2011-01-20 03:00:56 <gribble> 0.085 / 0.32 = 0.265625
368 2011-01-20 03:02:01 <andrew12> [Noodles]: what package was tested?
369 2011-01-20 03:02:28 <doublec> andrew12: you'd have trouble getting people to contribute if you took money out for the server since there are competing pools that are free.
370 2011-01-20 03:03:34 <andrew12> doublec: yeah I know. I'd probably be able to pay for that bit from coins that i have
371 2011-01-20 03:04:01 <[Noodles]> Nvidia Tesla M2050|1|575 MHz|CentOS 5.5 (on Amazon EC2)|m0mchil's OpenCL| 55981
372 2011-01-20 03:04:25 <[Noodles]> no idea what package that is, i'm not familiar with amazon at all
373 2011-01-20 03:04:25 Cusipzzz has quit ()
374 2011-01-20 03:05:29 <doublec> it's their gpu cluster package
375 2011-01-20 03:05:58 <ArtForz> m0s OpenCL on nvidia sucks
376 2011-01-20 03:06:32 <[Noodles]> think puddinpos cuda-code will make money on amazon? ^.^
377 2011-01-20 03:06:37 <[Noodles]> *pops
378 2011-01-20 03:06:38 <ArtForz> nope
379 2011-01-20 03:06:44 <doublec> amazon's costs are too high
380 2011-01-20 03:06:49 <ArtForz> but it'll lose less :P
381 2011-01-20 03:06:50 <doublec> isn't it like $2 an hour or something?
382 2011-01-20 03:06:56 <andrew12> the gpu one is.
383 2011-01-20 03:07:01 <ArtForz> ya, smth like that
384 2011-01-20 03:07:06 <ArtForz> 2050 should get ~77Mh/s using puddinpops CUDA miner
385 2011-01-20 03:07:22 <ArtForz> and iirc it has 2 2050s
386 2011-01-20 03:07:43 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 77000
387 2011-01-20 03:07:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 77000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 1 week, 4 days, 21 hours, 40 minutes, and 29 seconds
388 2011-01-20 03:07:48 <andrew12> er
389 2011-01-20 03:07:51 <ArtForz> so... nearly as fast as a 5770
390 2011-01-20 03:07:52 <andrew12> no that's right
391 2011-01-20 03:07:55 <andrew12> hmm
392 2011-01-20 03:08:23 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 154000
393 2011-01-20 03:08:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 154000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 5 days, 22 hours, 50 minutes, and 14 seconds
394 2011-01-20 03:09:07 <ArtForz> so... about 0.35btc/h for $2
395 2011-01-20 03:09:17 <andrew12> :\
396 2011-01-20 03:10:02 <ArtForz> let's do the same math with a 5770, about the same speed, uses 110W, at $0.15/kWh thats... $0.0165/h
397 2011-01-20 03:10:33 <andrew12> and you're not renting it out
398 2011-01-20 03:10:45 <andrew12> .-. amazon sux :p
399 2011-01-20 03:11:54 <ArtForz> I think I did the math for hash crunching, just buying a bunch of 5970s is cheaper than EC2 beyond 100 hours or so
400 2011-01-20 03:13:34 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
401 2011-01-20 03:13:36 <ArtForz> ...and you end up with actual hardware you can sell or reuse
402 2011-01-20 03:18:42 <andrew12> yeah
403 2011-01-20 03:18:53 <andrew12> which results in more profit :P
404 2011-01-20 03:28:09 <Kiba> http://mises.org/daily/4987
405 2011-01-20 03:29:05 <lfm> HTTP Error 503. The service is unavailable.
406 2011-01-20 03:34:20 <Kiba> oh dear
407 2011-01-20 03:34:28 <Kiba> try again?
408 2011-01-20 03:36:10 <lfm> script? to do what?
409 2011-01-20 03:37:45 <Kiba> try the site again?
410 2011-01-20 03:37:49 <Kiba> it loads for me
411 2011-01-20 04:00:19 <Kiba> does anybody have the contact info for Andrew Tepper of Dragon's Tales?
412 2011-01-20 04:04:53 <OneFixt> Kiba: I'ts Teppy (try Teppy1)
413 2011-01-20 04:04:56 <OneFixt> it's*
414 2011-01-20 04:05:02 <Kiba> where?
415 2011-01-20 04:05:04 <Kiba> hmm
416 2011-01-20 04:05:10 <Kiba> I earned bitcoin in so many ways now
417 2011-01-20 04:05:19 <OneFixt> on irc
418 2011-01-20 04:05:27 <Kiba> advertising, writing, arts, programming, tiped
419 2011-01-20 04:05:34 <Kiba> Teppy1: yo, yo.
420 2011-01-20 04:05:43 <OneFixt> yes, but have you earned an amount which you are satisfied with?
421 2011-01-20 04:05:53 <Teppy1> Hey
422 2011-01-20 04:05:56 <OneFixt> sometimes it's better to focus and earn more, rather than in many ways
423 2011-01-20 04:06:06 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
424 2011-01-20 04:06:08 <Kiba> Teppy1: trying to get The Bitcoin Times sponsored
425 2011-01-20 04:06:17 <Kiba> Teppy1: are you interesting in advertising with the new magazine?
426 2011-01-20 04:06:22 <Teppy1> Sure
427 2011-01-20 04:06:45 <OneFixt> Kiba: contgrats, one more way =)
428 2011-01-20 04:06:50 <OneFixt> congrats*
429 2011-01-20 04:07:06 <Kiba> Teppy1: I think, you'll be interested in a full page ads?
430 2011-01-20 04:07:32 <Teppy1> Tell me about the magazine.
431 2011-01-20 04:07:38 <Kiba> well, we're new
432 2011-01-20 04:07:44 <Kiba> and only one issue had been published
433 2011-01-20 04:08:32 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2355.0
434 2011-01-20 04:08:35 <Kiba> issue 0
435 2011-01-20 04:08:41 <Kiba> with an article written by me
436 2011-01-20 04:09:10 <Kiba> you see, fabianhr went broke in paying me 20 BTC for an article...and there's not been much in terms of download
437 2011-01-20 04:09:39 <Kiba> I figure for the magazine to survive, we ought to go free or something...cover our asses with ads so that I have a stream of income ;)
438 2011-01-20 04:10:03 <Teppy1> Sounds good. How much for an ad? (And, how many readers?)
439 2011-01-20 04:10:13 <Kiba> so we're planning to write an article in a week time(Saturday or Wednesday..we're still working out the Wednesday
440 2011-01-20 04:10:27 <Kiba> Teppy1: I think 6 readers downloaded it for 1 BTC
441 2011-01-20 04:11:27 <Kiba> but if we made it free, if fabianhr heed my suggestion, I think we will get wider circulation
442 2011-01-20 04:11:34 <Kiba> s/made/make
443 2011-01-20 04:12:25 <Kiba> How about 50 BTC over two issues?
444 2011-01-20 04:12:39 <Kiba> You get the full page adsd..
445 2011-01-20 04:12:43 <Kiba> s/adsd/ads
446 2011-01-20 04:14:57 <Kiba> Teppy1: yo?
447 2011-01-20 04:14:59 <Teppy1> Well, that's a lot for a magazine with 6 readers.
448 2011-01-20 04:15:13 <Kiba> 6 readers who willingly pay 1 BTC each
449 2011-01-20 04:15:21 <genjix> Teppy1: do you want to buy 50 BTC per page writing articles about your project? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Genjix/Free_software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Genjix/Pigs_deserve_respect <- those are some of my writings.
450 2011-01-20 04:15:29 <Kiba> 0 BTC, but more readers next magazine issue
451 2011-01-20 04:15:36 <Kiba> that's the provsional offer, Teppy1
452 2011-01-20 04:16:43 <Kiba> the theory is the 0 price will achevie wider distribution
453 2011-01-20 04:17:06 <noagendamarket> Kiba put me down for 2 weeks to promote the #bitcoind project.
454 2011-01-20 04:17:19 <genjix> OneFixt: i await the day bitcoin becomes more popular and work is farmed out to the third world for 0.1 btc :)
455 2011-01-20 04:17:27 <genjix> (more power to them)
456 2011-01-20 04:17:35 <Kiba> noagendamarket: you're willing to pay 50 BTC?
457 2011-01-20 04:17:37 <OneFixt> =)
458 2011-01-20 04:17:43 <noagendamarket> yep
459 2011-01-20 04:18:00 <Kiba> Teppy1: tell you want, 20 BTC over two issues
460 2011-01-20 04:18:03 <Teppy1> I'd pay 25 BTC for an ad, if you also review Dragon's Tale in the issue. Play the game, give an honest review; you can play with your own Bitcoins or mine.
461 2011-01-20 04:18:21 <Kiba> hmm
462 2011-01-20 04:18:26 <Kiba> potential conflict of interest, Teppy1
463 2011-01-20 04:18:40 <Teppy1> No, you can say the game sucks, I'll still pay.
464 2011-01-20 04:18:49 <Teppy1> IOW, give an unbiased review.
465 2011-01-20 04:19:22 <Kiba> alright, 25 BTC the next issue?
466 2011-01-20 04:19:45 <genjix> lol you got a bad deal. now noagenda will want to pay 25 btc
467 2011-01-20 04:19:49 <Kiba> noagendamarket: so, 25 BTC this issue, then next issue?
468 2011-01-20 04:19:56 <Teppy1> Yes.
469 2011-01-20 04:20:00 <genjix> but you do more work
470 2011-01-20 04:20:09 <Kiba> genjix: it's fine. More content, the better
471 2011-01-20 04:20:19 <noagendamarket> 25btc per issue with articles about it
472 2011-01-20 04:20:27 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
473 2011-01-20 04:20:28 * Kiba sigh
474 2011-01-20 04:20:39 <Kiba> writing articles about what?
475 2011-01-20 04:20:58 <noagendamarket> hmm
476 2011-01-20 04:21:00 <genjix> can i pay 10 btc to write my own article about myself and it goes on the first page?
477 2011-01-20 04:21:26 <Kiba> noagendamarket: so, you want us to write the ads for you?
478 2011-01-20 04:21:31 <Teppy1> AFK for a bit - someone just won 1300 BTC, gotta make sure it's just a normal swing, not a bug.
479 2011-01-20 04:21:46 <noagendamarket> Well you can use the forum post
480 2011-01-20 04:21:47 <genjix> lucky dude
481 2011-01-20 04:21:59 <Kiba> unlucky if it is a bug
482 2011-01-20 04:22:08 <Kiba> you win..then you found out that it's bug..and it's gone :(
483 2011-01-20 04:22:21 <Kiba> noagendamarket: ok
484 2011-01-20 04:22:24 <genjix> so is this 10 btc a deal then?
485 2011-01-20 04:22:29 <Kiba> we just stuff your post as an ads
486 2011-01-20 04:22:36 <genjix> when do i submit the article by?
487 2011-01-20 04:22:37 <Kiba> genjix: you are uninteresting
488 2011-01-20 04:22:49 <noagendamarket> heh
489 2011-01-20 04:23:09 <genjix> no honey, no money.
490 2011-01-20 04:23:11 <Kiba> noagendamarket: Teppy1: well, we will finalize the deal by email at hackerkiba@gmail.com
491 2011-01-20 04:24:22 <Kiba> Teppy1: your email by PM?
492 2011-01-20 04:24:29 <OneFixt> <Teppy1> AFK for a bit - someone just won 1300 BTC, gotta make sure it's just a normal swing, not a bug. ---- There's your ad right there!
493 2011-01-20 04:24:30 <genjix> Kiba: theres an article on your wiki about me.
494 2011-01-20 04:24:31 <Teppy1> teppy@egenesis.com
495 2011-01-20 04:24:36 <genjix> i didn't write it either :p
496 2011-01-20 04:24:53 <genjix> Qubodup did in 2007
497 2011-01-20 04:24:57 * Kiba looks disprovably at genjix
498 2011-01-20 04:25:10 <Kiba> my libregamewiki?
499 2011-01-20 04:25:13 <genjix> yep
500 2011-01-20 04:25:16 <Kiba> well, I forget
501 2011-01-20 04:25:32 <Kiba> noagendamarket: you sure spend a lot
502 2011-01-20 04:25:46 <genjix> did you make that site? i always wondered who owned that.
503 2011-01-20 04:25:56 <Kiba> genjix: I owned that sit
504 2011-01-20 04:25:57 <Kiba> e
505 2011-01-20 04:26:06 <Kiba> I sitted on it through my high school years, producing content
506 2011-01-20 04:26:18 <noagendamarket> Kiba I dont spend I invest :)
507 2011-01-20 04:26:18 <genjix> oh yeah you edited it.
508 2011-01-20 04:26:33 <genjix> "10:41, 22 July 2008 Kiba (Talk | contribs) (1,877 bytes) (add infobox) (undo)"
509 2011-01-20 04:26:37 <genjix> on my article :p
510 2011-01-20 04:28:10 <genjix> ohhh, you know CyaNox?
511 2011-01-20 04:28:39 <genjix> small world.
512 2011-01-20 04:29:02 <Kiba> genjix: duh, it's freenode
513 2011-01-20 04:29:20 <genjix> what, like only 25k users?
514 2011-01-20 04:29:29 <Kiba> and we're hackers
515 2011-01-20 04:29:32 <Kiba> err
516 2011-01-20 04:29:34 <Kiba> programmers
517 2011-01-20 04:29:37 <Kiba> and computer nerds
518 2011-01-20 04:30:34 <genjix> i suppose it's 1 degree of freenode, not 6 on freendoe
519 2011-01-20 04:30:37 <genjix> node
520 2011-01-20 04:30:46 <genjix> *separation
521 2011-01-20 04:32:15 <Kiba> Ask, and You Shall Receive
522 2011-01-20 04:32:38 <Kiba> If you never ask, who will give you jobs?
523 2011-01-20 04:33:06 <genjix> they took our jobs.
524 2011-01-20 04:33:30 <dirtyfilthy> dey dook our jurbs!
525 2011-01-20 04:33:54 <noagendamarket> steve jobs
526 2011-01-20 04:33:55 <genjix> dook ker doo X(
527 2011-01-20 04:35:25 <Kiba> there's always job around
528 2011-01-20 04:35:30 <Kiba> it's just a simple matter of price
529 2011-01-20 04:36:07 <Kiba> noagendamarket: the content on your forum topic is a little too long
530 2011-01-20 04:36:35 <noagendamarket> thats because I have textual diarrhea
531 2011-01-20 04:36:42 <genjix> brb, "surfing" the web. because i'm cool and it's 1998 all again.
532 2011-01-20 04:36:43 <Kiba> do you want to supply(in the future) a shortern version that doesn't extend beyond one page?
533 2011-01-20 04:37:05 <noagendamarket> Im sure I can.
534 2011-01-20 04:37:16 <noagendamarket> How many words would that be ?
535 2011-01-20 04:37:18 <Kiba> ok, advertiser will supply content (Limit is 1 page)
536 2011-01-20 04:37:23 <Kiba> dunno
537 2011-01-20 04:38:05 <Kiba> I think 500 words you're on the safe side
538 2011-01-20 04:38:21 <Kiba> barely
539 2011-01-20 04:38:55 <noagendamarket> Ok
540 2011-01-20 04:38:58 <genjix> i love reading eric raymonds blog
541 2011-01-20 04:39:05 <noagendamarket> Bullet points ftw lol
542 2011-01-20 04:39:17 <genjix> because of the comments calling him a stupid wanker
543 2011-01-20 04:40:10 <genjix> silly man
544 2011-01-20 04:40:57 <redMBA> whats your readership level?
545 2011-01-20 04:41:11 <Kiba> redMBA: readership level? low?
546 2011-01-20 04:41:22 <Kiba> low
547 2011-01-20 04:41:40 <Kiba> I think we're in the single digit, and maybe double digit..but I request the issue will be free next time
548 2011-01-20 04:42:03 <redMBA> gonna be hard to convince advertising to 50 ppl is worth the cost of creating an ad
549 2011-01-20 04:42:27 <Kiba> well Teppy1 and noagendamarket accepted
550 2011-01-20 04:42:31 <Kiba> at least provisionally
551 2011-01-20 04:43:07 <Kiba> Bringing home the bacons
552 2011-01-20 04:44:14 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
553 2011-01-20 04:44:24 d__ is now known as dduane
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556 2011-01-20 04:47:01 <genjix> ESR: What do you think of the cryptocurrency Bitcoinâs potential as a global currency?
557 2011-01-20 04:47:09 <genjix> Kiba: ^ you are a posting machine.
558 2011-01-20 04:48:09 <Kiba> only on the bitcoin forum, though
559 2011-01-20 04:48:55 <necrodearia> Maybe soon witcoin too? ^_^
560 2011-01-20 04:49:15 <Kiba> whatever make kiba money
561 2011-01-20 04:49:24 * Kiba is a very greedy person
562 2011-01-20 04:49:30 <noagendamarket> witcoin will make you money lol
563 2011-01-20 04:49:36 <necrodearia> witcoin can help you to pursue your greediness
564 2011-01-20 04:49:57 <genjix> i just found you in 2 other parts of the net by accident XD
565 2011-01-20 04:50:04 <necrodearia> For starters you can visit http://witcoin.com/witup and practice your greediness
566 2011-01-20 04:50:11 <necrodearia> You must create an account first thoguh.
567 2011-01-20 04:50:36 lfm has quit (Quit: brb)
568 2011-01-20 04:50:57 <genjix> i clicked from libregamewiki -> CyaNox -> hacker files -> ESR blog and saw a comment by you there
569 2011-01-20 04:51:00 lfm has joined
570 2011-01-20 04:51:11 <genjix> funny stuff
571 2011-01-20 04:51:42 <Kiba> CyaNox -> hacker files?
572 2011-01-20 04:53:02 <Kiba> genjix: I intend to be more proflic and more skillful in the production of content
573 2011-01-20 04:54:58 <necrodearia> Kiba, What kind of content?
574 2011-01-20 04:55:28 <Kiba> necrodearia: dunno. I seem to not have specialize yet
575 2011-01-20 04:55:51 * Kiba thinks he violates the tenat of division of labor by doing a little bit of everything
576 2011-01-20 04:55:56 <Kiba> tenent*
577 2011-01-20 04:56:13 <Kiba> divison of labor create efficency
578 2011-01-20 04:56:32 <Kiba> but I work many kind of things to earn bitcoin over the last few days
579 2011-01-20 04:56:49 <Kiba> perhaps, I am specializing in being a generalist
580 2011-01-20 04:57:06 <Kiba> I do odd jobs because nobody will
581 2011-01-20 05:03:29 <genjix> division of labour is for factory workers in the industrial age.
582 2011-01-20 05:04:26 <genjix> today we live in an age of information workers, taking the noise around them into their black boxes, applying their energies and outputting useful 'content'. To truly transform that into something useful you have to be creative.
583 2011-01-20 05:04:29 <Kiba> pfft
584 2011-01-20 05:04:57 <Kiba> information workers divide their labor into projects
585 2011-01-20 05:05:14 <genjix> Creativity is the ability to reapply diverse skillsets across disciplines (as nobody is born with ideas). You can only be truly creative if you have wideranging knowledge.
586 2011-01-20 05:05:22 <genjix> generalists are the new super-workers.
587 2011-01-20 05:05:41 <Kiba> I intend to do that just that
588 2011-01-20 05:05:43 <Kiba> polymath
589 2011-01-20 05:06:06 <Kiba> don't want to be a dilentte socialist who farm 30 minutes, fish 30 minutes, herd sheeps 30 minutes, etc
590 2011-01-20 05:06:26 <genjix> go for it then, but realise that forums are very distracting if you want to focus hard :p
591 2011-01-20 05:06:37 CyanDynamo has joined
592 2011-01-20 05:06:48 <Kiba> genjix: I have money sorting algorithm
593 2011-01-20 05:06:53 <Kiba> and I focus on my projects!
594 2011-01-20 05:08:01 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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615 2011-01-20 06:28:10 <mrb_> ArtForz and xelister: according to the forums you are the ones who increase the difficulty on testnet. I am curious: why?
616 2011-01-20 06:29:45 <tcatm> mrb_: I think they were testing things out. It's a TESTnet after all :)
617 2011-01-20 06:30:31 AAA_awright has joined
618 2011-01-20 06:31:08 <mrb_> yeah but what requires hours of generation on testnet?...
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621 2011-01-20 06:37:45 <tcatm> mrb_: reducing latencies? finetuning?
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634 2011-01-20 07:30:16 <lfm> i think it was a test to see what people woulkd do if the difficulty got pushed higher than they expected
635 2011-01-20 07:35:51 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 320000
636 2011-01-20 07:35:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 2 days, 20 hours, 44 minutes, and 25 seconds
637 2011-01-20 07:36:08 <DjeZAeL> ah ah
638 2011-01-20 07:36:17 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 320000 185
639 2011-01-20 07:36:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 185, is 41 minutes and 23 seconds
640 2011-01-20 07:36:30 <DjeZAeL> 2 yearns to earn 50BTC, too bad
641 2011-01-20 07:36:48 <lfm> years?
642 2011-01-20 07:37:07 <DjeZAeL> my computer needs 2 years yes :(
643 2011-01-20 07:37:14 <lfm> o i c
644 2011-01-20 07:37:19 <DjeZAeL> oic ?
645 2011-01-20 07:37:25 <lfm> oh I see
646 2011-01-20 07:37:29 <DjeZAeL> ok
647 2011-01-20 07:37:41 <lfm> ;bc,stats\
648 2011-01-20 07:37:44 <lfm> ;bc,stats
649 2011-01-20 07:37:48 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
650 2011-01-20 07:37:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 103601 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 1230 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 21362.46268322
651 2011-01-20 07:37:55 <ArtForz> mainly trying to find a bug in my miner
652 2011-01-20 07:38:02 <DjeZAeL> ;;bc,calc 400
653 2011-01-20 07:38:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 6 years, 14 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 24 minutes, and 59 seconds
654 2011-01-20 07:38:32 <mrb_> ArtForz: ah.
655 2011-01-20 07:38:34 <lfm> ya 400 is a pretty small computer for bitcoin mining
656 2011-01-20 07:38:49 <DjeZAeL> i dont remember the score yet
657 2011-01-20 07:38:51 <ArtForz> I had problems with my custom async protocol
658 2011-01-20 07:39:19 kabo69_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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660 2011-01-20 07:39:26 <ArtForz> turns out that I had some of my logic of when to send responses to what messed up
661 2011-01-20 07:39:42 <DjeZAeL> ;;bc,calc 4589
662 2011-01-20 07:39:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4589 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 28 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 24 minutes, and 42 seconds
663 2011-01-20 07:39:49 <DjeZAeL> ;;bc,calc 589
664 2011-01-20 07:39:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 589 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 4 years, 13 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 34 seconds
665 2011-01-20 07:40:00 <DjeZAeL> :(
666 2011-01-20 07:41:11 <ArtForz> = when while miner was busy it received 2 "update nTime" messages it didn't ack the first one
667 2011-01-20 07:41:27 <lfm> djezael what cpu is that?
668 2011-01-20 07:41:36 <ArtForz> which caused it to "lose sync" until a "update blockheader" came along
669 2011-01-20 07:42:36 <ArtForz> checking for stuff like that is kinda hard when you're only getting < 1 block/hr
670 2011-01-20 07:42:59 <DjeZAeL> lfm: atom
671 2011-01-20 07:43:33 <lfm> djazael well I guess you arnt surprized it isnt very fast\
672 2011-01-20 07:43:47 <ArtForz> so what's intels next low-power cpu? nucleus? *ducks*
673 2011-01-20 07:43:58 scant has joined
674 2011-01-20 07:44:01 <lfm> quark
675 2011-01-20 07:44:07 <DjeZAeL> lfm: i already know it yes
676 2011-01-20 07:44:27 <nevezen> ;;bc,calc 25000
677 2011-01-20 07:44:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 25000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 5 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 52 minutes, and 43 seconds
678 2011-01-20 07:44:38 <DjeZAeL> but i didn t really choose
679 2011-01-20 07:44:53 <ArtForz> the new atom, now slightly faster than molasses in winter ;)
680 2011-01-20 07:45:39 <lfm> some atoms are dual core, two streams of molasses in winter
681 2011-01-20 07:46:00 <ArtForz> yeah, makes not much sense
682 2011-01-20 07:46:28 <DjeZAeL> mine is dual core
683 2011-01-20 07:46:33 <ArtForz> even via realized in-order designs suck
684 2011-01-20 07:46:55 <DjeZAeL> but it's a server in a datacenter
685 2011-01-20 07:47:11 <DjeZAeL> so no really choice about processor
686 2011-01-20 07:47:26 <DjeZAeL> or i could pay more :(
687 2011-01-20 07:47:30 <nevezen> atoms are used in servers too!?
688 2011-01-20 07:47:36 <ArtForz> yeah :/
689 2011-01-20 07:47:39 <nevezen> wtf
690 2011-01-20 07:47:42 <ArtForz> makes no fucking sense
691 2011-01-20 07:47:52 <ArtForz> well, except to have cheap "dedicated servers"
692 2011-01-20 07:47:57 <nevezen> are they really cheap on electricity?
693 2011-01-20 07:47:58 <lfm> low power
694 2011-01-20 07:48:07 <ArtForz> sounds better than "1/X of a real server" VPS
695 2011-01-20 07:48:18 <DjeZAeL> ArtForz: it's my case
696 2011-01-20 07:48:27 <DjeZAeL> its a dedicated server
697 2011-01-20 07:48:28 <lfm> they dont even need a fan
698 2011-01-20 07:48:30 <DjeZAeL> cheap
699 2011-01-20 07:48:34 <ArtForz> yes
700 2011-01-20 07:48:42 <ArtForz> and VPS would be even cheaper
701 2011-01-20 07:49:02 <DjeZAeL> i dont think
702 2011-01-20 07:49:30 <nevezen> ;;bc,calc 400
703 2011-01-20 07:49:31 <ArtForz> lol
704 2011-01-20 07:49:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 6 years, 14 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 24 minutes, and 59 seconds
705 2011-01-20 07:49:54 <nevezen> 400 is the kh/s for a single core atom
706 2011-01-20 07:50:00 <ArtForz> atom in a datacenter makes no sense at all
707 2011-01-20 07:50:06 <ArtForz> they're not really that efficient
708 2011-01-20 07:50:24 <ArtForz> yeah, they're low power, but they're also Slow(tm)
709 2011-01-20 07:50:25 <DjeZAeL> it works, i just need a running machine
710 2011-01-20 07:50:27 <nevezen> that's on my netbook :)
711 2011-01-20 07:50:43 <DjeZAeL> no need to have a high performance server
712 2011-01-20 07:51:04 <lfm> djezael so why not vps?
713 2011-01-20 07:51:11 <nevezen> ;;bc,calc 1800
714 2011-01-20 07:51:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1800 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 1 year, 20 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes, and 13 seconds
715 2011-01-20 07:51:43 <nevezen> at least running a miner on an nvidia ion almost matches up to my current desktop's processor..
716 2011-01-20 07:51:54 <ArtForz> one single large box running at 60+% average load is more efficient than X small ones each at 10% load
717 2011-01-20 07:51:57 <nevezen> ;;bc, calc 2000
718 2011-01-20 07:51:57 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
719 2011-01-20 07:52:02 <nevezen> ;;bc,calc 2000
720 2011-01-20 07:52:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 1 year, 13 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 28 minutes, and 59 seconds
721 2011-01-20 07:52:24 <DjeZAeL> should i say that bitcoin is not my priority ?
722 2011-01-20 07:52:41 <ArtForz> what does that have to do with anything?
723 2011-01-20 07:53:44 <lfm> djezael so why not virtal private server (vps)?
724 2011-01-20 07:54:11 <DjeZAeL> because i had some good prices with that offer
725 2011-01-20 07:55:26 <ArtForz> weird
726 2011-01-20 07:55:57 <ArtForz> so anyways, how fast is a ion?
727 2011-01-20 07:56:02 <ArtForz> hashing-wise
728 2011-01-20 07:57:17 <ArtForz> nevezen: ping
729 2011-01-20 07:58:11 <lfm> i suspect that calc 2000 my be related
730 2011-01-20 07:58:22 <DjeZAeL> i just saw that ovh has some vps with atom processor...
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732 2011-01-20 07:58:37 <ArtForz> vps? on atom? *dies*
733 2011-01-20 07:58:52 <DjeZAeL> see ovh website...
734 2011-01-20 07:59:09 <ArtForz> just did the math, ion should be able to get 2.65Mh/s or so
735 2011-01-20 08:00:09 * DjeZAeL away
736 2011-01-20 08:00:42 <ArtForz> and if it's not more efficient than the normal 9400M, it's ~0.22Mh/W
737 2011-01-20 08:02:24 <ArtForz> = low power, low speed, not really efficient
738 2011-01-20 08:02:53 TheAncientGoat has joined
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740 2011-01-20 08:03:34 <luke-jr> Is there already a miner that takes advantage of Sandy Bridge's new SHA-specific instructions?
741 2011-01-20 08:03:54 <ArtForz> which ones?
742 2011-01-20 08:03:57 <lfm> not that I know of
743 2011-01-20 08:04:18 <ArtForz> SB has accelerated AES and SHA-1
744 2011-01-20 08:04:27 <ArtForz> iirc not sha256
745 2011-01-20 08:05:23 <lfm> sha-1 is no use to bitcoin
746 2011-01-20 08:05:32 <nevezen> around there artforz
747 2011-01-20 08:05:42 <nevezen> 1800-2000 Kh/s
748 2011-01-20 08:05:49 <ArtForz> using what miner?
749 2011-01-20 08:05:55 <ArtForz> m0mchils?
750 2011-01-20 08:05:55 <nevezen> m0mchil
751 2011-01-20 08:06:18 <ArtForz> try puddinpops CUDA miner, nvidias OpenCL implementation is... suboptimal
752 2011-01-20 08:06:31 <nevezen> I played around with puddin's.. but it doesn't mine.
753 2011-01-20 08:06:50 <nevezen> It'll just sit there with 0 kh/s forever
754 2011-01-20 08:07:12 <ArtForz> *shrug* dunno, don't run nvidia here
755 2011-01-20 08:07:18 <nevezen> hehe
756 2011-01-20 08:07:23 * nevezen pets artforz
757 2011-01-20 08:07:52 <mrb_> nevezen: creepy
758 2011-01-20 08:08:02 <nevezen> bitcoin hasn't been ported to anywhere else has it?
759 2011-01-20 08:08:06 scant has quit (Quit: Page closed)
760 2011-01-20 08:08:06 <ArtForz> but someone else went from 50 to ~65Mh/s on a GTX460 by switching from m0s to puddinpops cudaminer
761 2011-01-20 08:08:10 <nevezen> a miner for the ps3?
762 2011-01-20 08:08:25 <ArtForz> been there, did the math, doesnt make sense
763 2011-01-20 08:08:47 <nevezen> so essentially from opencl to cuda?
764 2011-01-20 08:08:50 <ArtForz> yep
765 2011-01-20 08:09:42 <ArtForz> like I said, nvidias OpenCL impl. isnt really the greatest
766 2011-01-20 08:10:27 <nevezen> I'll try using puddinpop's cuda miner again
767 2011-01-20 08:10:39 <nevezen> I'm sure I fscked up some setting somewhere
768 2011-01-20 08:10:44 <ArtForz> might wanna check the thread on the dev forums again
769 2011-01-20 08:11:18 <nevezen> it's one of my permanent tabs on my browser :-)
770 2011-01-20 08:11:34 <ArtForz> iirc its commandline switch handling is a bit unorthodox or something
771 2011-01-20 08:11:51 <lfm> I couldnt figure out how to build puddin's miner(s) on linux
772 2011-01-20 08:12:49 <ArtForz> probably uses some kind of makefile *ducks*
773 2011-01-20 08:13:05 <lfm> some weird version of cmake
774 2011-01-20 08:13:24 <ArtForz> eww, cmake *grabs asbestos suit*
775 2011-01-20 08:14:08 <lfm> so I gave up without trying real hard
776 2011-01-20 08:14:26 <ArtForz> my ATI OpenCL and CAL miners use a plain ole makefile
777 2011-01-20 08:14:56 <ArtForz> export ATISTREAMSDKROOT=...; make all
778 2011-01-20 08:16:36 <ArtForz> aka "stupid but works"
779 2011-01-20 08:19:05 <lfm> kiss principle is effective
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800 2011-01-20 09:39:37 bitcoinz has joined
801 2011-01-20 09:39:58 <bitcoinz> hello room
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803 2011-01-20 09:40:38 <bitcoinz> can someone help me put of partyfee in bitcoind please..:$
804 2011-01-20 09:41:27 <lfm> what?
805 2011-01-20 09:41:53 <bitcoinz> i could not find the command with ./bitcoind help
806 2011-01-20 09:42:06 <bitcoinz> partyfee has to be disabled
807 2011-01-20 09:42:20 <lfm> what is partyfee?
808 2011-01-20 09:42:54 <ArtForz> *blink*
809 2011-01-20 09:43:15 <bitcoinz> 0.01
810 2011-01-20 09:43:22 <nevezen> ?
811 2011-01-20 09:43:33 <ArtForz> paytxfee?
812 2011-01-20 09:43:45 <lfm> oh
813 2011-01-20 09:43:48 <ArtForz> lern2raed?
814 2011-01-20 09:44:26 <ArtForz> *crawls back under his bridge*
815 2011-01-20 09:44:34 <lfm> are you trying to send whole balance?
816 2011-01-20 09:44:44 <bitcoinz> yeah
817 2011-01-20 09:44:59 <lfm> try leaving 0.01 or 0.02 behind
818 2011-01-20 09:45:07 <bitcoinz> i mean transaction fee
819 2011-01-20 09:45:30 <lfm> ya, you may have picked up a fractional bitcent
820 2011-01-20 09:46:06 <ArtForz> shouldnt current bitcoind just throw away those?
821 2011-01-20 09:46:18 <lfm> try 49.99 instead of 50.00
822 2011-01-20 09:46:36 <lfm> it tries to throw it into txfee
823 2011-01-20 09:46:43 <bitcoinz> i have 50 coinz to be payed
824 2011-01-20 09:47:14 <bitcoinz> and i have only 50 si i cant sent it due to the fee
825 2011-01-20 09:47:21 <lfm> ok Ill send you another 0.01 then you can leave it in balance, tell me your bitcoin address
826 2011-01-20 09:47:35 <lfm> either that or just pay fee
827 2011-01-20 09:48:09 <lfm> in any case you cant reall get the last penny at this time
828 2011-01-20 09:49:03 <bitcoinz> i see...i'll pay 49.99 :)
829 2011-01-20 09:49:08 <bitcoinz> thtas the fast
830 2011-01-20 09:49:12 <lfm> ya I know it is kinda screwed up, basiclly you need another 0.01
831 2011-01-20 09:50:10 <bitcoinz> yeah its weir
832 2011-01-20 09:50:13 <bitcoinz> d
833 2011-01-20 09:50:38 altamic has joined
834 2011-01-20 09:50:48 <bitcoinz> i will sent the rest later:D
835 2011-01-20 09:51:11 <bitcoinz> I got the system running Art
836 2011-01-20 09:51:14 <lfm> ok, good luck
837 2011-01-20 09:51:54 <bitcoinz> i am running 2 5970's now at 1200mhash :D
838 2011-01-20 09:52:09 <ArtForz> neat
839 2011-01-20 09:52:48 <bitcoinz> 3 blocks solved since yesterday
840 2011-01-20 09:52:57 <lfm> nice
841 2011-01-20 09:53:09 <bitcoinz> yeah
842 2011-01-20 09:53:16 <bitcoinz> i love this :D
843 2011-01-20 09:53:19 <bitcoinz> haha
844 2011-01-20 09:54:01 <bitcoinz> i am becoming an adict lol
845 2011-01-20 09:54:27 <bitcoinz> ow yea i found out that there are several types xfx 5970
846 2011-01-20 09:54:51 <bitcoinz> i have older types running standard at 725 mhz
847 2011-01-20 09:55:33 <bitcoinz> but the newest type runs 850 mhz but cost over 800 ⬠:O
848 2011-01-20 09:55:45 <bitcoinz> Wow
849 2011-01-20 09:55:52 <bitcoinz> not for mee lol
850 2011-01-20 09:56:45 <bitcoinz> it seems they upgraded mhz with the new 5000 serie
851 2011-01-20 09:57:15 <bitcoinz> i set clocks at 800 mhz speed
852 2011-01-20 09:57:21 <lfm> factory overclocking?
853 2011-01-20 09:57:26 <bitcoinz> ;0
854 2011-01-20 09:57:31 <bitcoinz> yeah
855 2011-01-20 09:57:50 <bitcoinz> 725 mhz --> 800
856 2011-01-20 09:58:15 <ArtForz> 800 isnt exactly much for a 5970
857 2011-01-20 09:58:37 <ArtForz> thats about as fast as my slowest card goes
858 2011-01-20 09:58:45 <bitcoinz> indeed...
859 2011-01-20 09:58:58 davout has joined
860 2011-01-20 09:59:09 <bitcoinz> i tried 850 also but the cards became to hot :(
861 2011-01-20 09:59:21 <bitcoinz> 90 degrees :O
862 2011-01-20 09:59:39 <davout> tcatm: ping
863 2011-01-20 09:59:53 <ArtForz> increase fan speed
864 2011-01-20 09:59:57 <ArtForz> autofan sucks
865 2011-01-20 10:00:13 <bitcoinz> so i opened up my case and pointed a fan at the cards
866 2011-01-20 10:00:21 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
867 2011-01-20 10:01:23 <bitcoinz> i bought e cheap table fan to poit at at, so i can speed mhz up too maybe 900 mhz
868 2011-01-20 10:01:27 <ArtForz> aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 100"
869 2011-01-20 10:01:35 <bitcoinz> hmzzz
870 2011-01-20 10:01:42 <ArtForz> most cards top out around 840 - 900
871 2011-01-20 10:02:13 <bitcoinz> that will increase hashes much Art :)
872 2011-01-20 10:03:45 chuck251 has quit ()
873 2011-01-20 10:04:23 <davout> don't do the fan thing
874 2011-01-20 10:04:29 <davout> your box will start to levitate
875 2011-01-20 10:04:31 <bitcoinz> @Artforz pplib error
876 2011-01-20 10:05:03 <bitcoinz> sorry, forgot a space
877 2011-01-20 10:05:04 <ArtForz> dont forget export DISPLAY=whatever
878 2011-01-20 10:05:10 <ArtForz> yeah, or that
879 2011-01-20 10:05:20 <ArtForz> oh, and get some hearing protection ;)
880 2011-01-20 10:05:27 <bitcoinz> what a fannoise! LOL
881 2011-01-20 10:05:46 <ArtForz> just use 65 or 70 or so
882 2011-01-20 10:05:52 <bitcoinz> thanks Art
883 2011-01-20 10:05:54 <ArtForz> auto fanspeed doesnt go over 60
884 2011-01-20 10:06:31 <bitcoinz> okay
885 2011-01-20 10:06:42 <bitcoinz> thanks for the cmd:)
886 2011-01-20 10:06:56 altamic has joined
887 2011-01-20 10:07:41 <bitcoinz> temp adapter 0 and 1 dropped below 70 degrees
888 2011-01-20 10:07:44 <bitcoinz> :D
889 2011-01-20 10:07:51 <ArtForz> just check core temps, <85°C or so should be fine, <80°C isnt hard with decent case airflow
890 2011-01-20 10:09:37 <ArtForz> somewhere around 95°C core temp card usually starts to throttle as VRMs hit 120°C
891 2011-01-20 10:10:17 <bitcoinz> i just closed the case .. trying with some cmd's
892 2011-01-20 10:13:40 lfm has quit (Quit: brb)
893 2011-01-20 10:15:08 * davout tries env DISPLAY=:0.0 aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 over 9000"
894 2011-01-20 10:15:41 <bitcoinz> get some lead in your boots ;)
895 2011-01-20 10:15:58 * davout is amazed at the trollface that just appeared on his monitor
896 2011-01-20 10:16:07 <bitcoinz> LOL
897 2011-01-20 10:19:05 TheBusyGoat is now known as TheAncientGoat
898 2011-01-20 10:26:12 Tritonio has joined
899 2011-01-20 10:28:27 lfm has joined
900 2011-01-20 10:30:20 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
901 2011-01-20 10:30:51 ArtForz has joined
902 2011-01-20 10:32:25 <bitcoinz> my box get wings now :D
903 2011-01-20 10:34:03 <davout> your room is getting chilly?
904 2011-01-20 10:34:13 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
905 2011-01-20 10:34:29 <ArtForz> just get a bunch of these: http://www.ebmpapst.com/en/products/compact-fans/axial-compact-fans/axial_compact_fans_detail.php?pID=54166
906 2011-01-20 10:34:41 <bitcoinz> put on an extra vest;)
907 2011-01-20 10:34:52 <ArtForz> a 5970@100% is nice and quiet in comparison
908 2011-01-20 10:36:48 <bitcoinz> i got 5 of such fans :) with blue leds
909 2011-01-20 10:37:00 <ArtForz> *very* unlikely
910 2011-01-20 10:37:07 <ArtForz> these are 22W
911 2011-01-20 10:37:16 <ArtForz> 6000RPM 120x38mm
912 2011-01-20 10:37:33 <bitcoinz> wow
913 2011-01-20 10:38:04 <bitcoinz> more watts and rpm than mines
914 2011-01-20 10:38:08 <ArtForz> ...yep
915 2011-01-20 10:38:36 <bitcoinz> that would be dangerous for my 3 cats
916 2011-01-20 10:39:01 <ArtForz> yep
917 2011-01-20 10:39:01 <bitcoinz> they would get sucked in lol
918 2011-01-20 10:39:13 npouillard has joined
919 2011-01-20 10:39:25 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
920 2011-01-20 10:39:31 <bitcoinz> and teared to pieces
921 2011-01-20 10:39:59 <ArtForz> oh, and don't stick your finger in
922 2011-01-20 10:40:00 <bitcoinz> like in a meatmill
923 2011-01-20 10:40:28 <bitcoinz> no...i alreeady burned them on the cards..
924 2011-01-20 10:40:37 <ArtForz> managed to do that at work once when I was replacing the filter
925 2011-01-20 10:40:39 <ArtForz> had a nice black fingernail for a few weeks before it came off
926 2011-01-20 10:40:58 <bitcoinz> lol
927 2011-01-20 10:41:11 <bitcoinz> you're the expert ;)
928 2011-01-20 10:41:22 <bitcoinz> whahahaha
929 2011-01-20 10:41:29 altamic has joined
930 2011-01-20 10:41:37 <ArtForz> hurt like hell
931 2011-01-20 10:42:48 <bitcoinz> i figure
932 2011-01-20 10:43:04 <ArtForz> one day I want to hear/feel one of these in action: http://www.ebmpapst.com/en/products/compact-fans/axial-compact-fans/axial_compact_fans_detail.php?pID=120067
933 2011-01-20 10:43:21 <ArtForz> again a 120x38mm fan, just a *tad* more powerful
934 2011-01-20 10:43:35 <ArtForz> 120W, 11000RPM
935 2011-01-20 10:43:49 ducki2p has joined
936 2011-01-20 10:44:32 <ArtForz> max static pressure ~ 5" H2O, max airflow 330CFM
937 2011-01-20 10:44:49 <bitcoinz> i see
938 2011-01-20 10:45:05 <lfm> how bout http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=16992&ch=infotech&a=f
939 2011-01-20 10:45:37 <bitcoinz> bet you don't have cats around ;)
940 2011-01-20 10:45:46 <ArtForz> I actually do
941 2011-01-20 10:45:59 <ArtForz> well, this fan is in a similar vein
942 2011-01-20 10:46:17 <bitcoinz> :)
943 2011-01-20 10:46:33 <ArtForz> they basically combined a conventional 120mm fan chassis with a high-power brushless DC motor as used in model aircraft
944 2011-01-20 10:46:44 <davout> hehe
945 2011-01-20 10:46:45 <davout> cats
946 2011-01-20 10:46:47 <davout> :3
947 2011-01-20 10:47:17 <ArtForz> yup, 2 persians
948 2011-01-20 10:47:43 <bitcoinz> we have three european cats
949 2011-01-20 10:47:54 <davout> i have a plain badass cat
950 2011-01-20 10:48:15 <bitcoinz> european shorthair .. ahum
951 2011-01-20 10:48:16 <davout> s/badass/fat and lazy/
952 2011-01-20 10:48:53 <ArtForz> all cats are lazy, thats why they rule ;)
953 2011-01-20 10:49:06 <bitcoinz> lots of hair of the persians to pull out of your box Art?
954 2011-01-20 10:49:10 <davout> they are like developers
955 2011-01-20 10:49:14 <ArtForz> yep
956 2011-01-20 10:49:15 <davout> awesome and lazy
957 2011-01-20 10:49:17 noagendamarket has joined
958 2011-01-20 10:49:28 <davout> and fat...
959 2011-01-20 10:49:34 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
960 2011-01-20 10:49:34 noagendamarket has joined
961 2011-01-20 10:49:36 <ArtForz> thats why every engineer worth his salt likes cats
962 2011-01-20 10:49:38 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
963 2011-01-20 10:50:02 <ArtForz> being lazy is a fucking requirement to go into engineering
964 2011-01-20 10:50:28 <noagendamarket> do engineers sit in the sun and go to sleep?
965 2011-01-20 10:50:33 <ArtForz> yep
966 2011-01-20 10:50:38 <noagendamarket> heh
967 2011-01-20 10:50:41 <MT`AwAy> they would if they could
968 2011-01-20 10:50:47 <bitcoinz> sleep, eat, fart.. and sleep some more:P
969 2011-01-20 10:50:50 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|engineers can be in sun?
970 2011-01-20 10:50:59 <lfm> just you dont often catch them in the sun
971 2011-01-20 10:51:03 <ArtForz> well, half-breeds, yes :P
972 2011-01-20 10:51:07 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I thought they melted when the sun shined on them
973 2011-01-20 10:51:12 <ArtForz> real engineers melt I think
974 2011-01-20 10:51:16 <noagendamarket> lol
975 2011-01-20 10:51:19 <bitcoinz> LOL
976 2011-01-20 10:51:39 altamic has joined
977 2011-01-20 10:51:55 <lfm> yes flourescents are their natural habitat
978 2011-01-20 10:52:34 <ArtForz> yeah, but only the good old ones with the passive 50/60Hz ballast
979 2011-01-20 10:52:46 <bitcoinz> GPUload has dropped from 99% to 98/98/96/93
980 2011-01-20 10:53:11 davout_ has joined
981 2011-01-20 10:53:13 <bitcoinz> oh.. back at 99 again
982 2011-01-20 10:53:34 <lfm> chronjob?
983 2011-01-20 10:54:19 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
984 2011-01-20 10:54:43 davout_ is now known as davout
985 2011-01-20 10:55:37 <bitcoinz> getting 1220000 khash on 820 mhz GPUspeed
986 2011-01-20 10:56:23 <lfm> temp?
987 2011-01-20 10:56:32 <ArtForz> "yes"
988 2011-01-20 10:57:05 <bitcoinz> temp at 65,5 / 65 / 87,5 / 85,5
989 2011-01-20 10:57:23 <bitcoinz> adapter 2 and 3 are above the psu
990 2011-01-20 10:57:59 <davout> i get 87ish on both GPUs @820 Mhz with stock cooling
991 2011-01-20 10:58:04 <ArtForz> btw, I have a somewhat racist theory
992 2011-01-20 10:58:07 <bitcoinz> so i could overclock adapters 0 and 1... what's the cmd for that?
993 2011-01-20 10:58:23 <davout> we should stop with the racist theories
994 2011-01-20 10:58:25 <ArtForz> I've never met a good indian engineer, or coder for that matter
995 2011-01-20 10:58:31 <ArtForz> not fucking ONE
996 2011-01-20 10:58:37 <davout> ArtForz: racism is a crime
997 2011-01-20 10:58:47 <ArtForz> it's not race per se, more a societal thing
998 2011-01-20 10:58:47 <davout> and crime, is for niggers
999 2011-01-20 10:59:05 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|But everyone is a little bit racist
1000 2011-01-20 10:59:07 <ArtForz> they *like* work
1001 2011-01-20 10:59:13 <ArtForz> avenue q?
1002 2011-01-20 10:59:15 <bitcoinz> @ArtForz what's the cmd to overclock one or two adapters instead of 'all'?
1003 2011-01-20 10:59:18 <sipa> haha
1004 2011-01-20 10:59:21 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|yes
1005 2011-01-20 10:59:21 * sipa loves avenue q
1006 2011-01-20 10:59:27 <davout> just don't supplu the --adapter switch
1007 2011-01-20 10:59:32 <davout> *supply
1008 2011-01-20 10:59:55 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1009 2011-01-20 10:59:58 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|hmm, I wonder if they've revised the last song
1010 2011-01-20 11:00:05 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|s/Bush/Obama/
1011 2011-01-20 11:00:09 <ArtForz> hehehe
1012 2011-01-20 11:00:12 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|It doesn't have the same flow though
1013 2011-01-20 11:00:30 <bitcoinz> @ArtForz what's the cmd to overclock one or two adapters instead of 'all'?
1014 2011-01-20 11:00:32 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|maybe s/Bush/Change/
1015 2011-01-20 11:00:46 <ArtForz> --adapter=0,1 for first card
1016 2011-01-20 11:00:51 <ArtForz> --adapter=2,3 for 2nd
1017 2011-01-20 11:00:54 <ArtForz> etc
1018 2011-01-20 11:01:01 <bitcoinz> thanks.. again
1019 2011-01-20 11:01:20 <ArtForz> Well, and I have a idea why indians make crappy engineers
1020 2011-01-20 11:01:27 <ArtForz> they're taught work is a good thing
1021 2011-01-20 11:01:34 <ArtForz> nstead of something to be avoided at all costs
1022 2011-01-20 11:01:49 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|work is good
1023 2011-01-20 11:01:54 <ArtForz> nope
1024 2011-01-20 11:01:59 <ArtForz> working to do less work is good
1025 2011-01-20 11:01:59 <bitcoinz> they aren't lazy enough.. guess they eat cats there:P
1026 2011-01-20 11:02:00 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|But if you can avoid working while you're working, you're efficient
1027 2011-01-20 11:02:04 <lfm> they tried to teach me work was a good thing too (Canada), didnt take tho
1028 2011-01-20 11:02:22 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|And as we all know
1029 2011-01-20 11:02:26 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|If you're efficient
1030 2011-01-20 11:02:29 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|You're working well
1031 2011-01-20 11:02:39 altamic has joined
1032 2011-01-20 11:02:42 <sipa> nameless|: i've seen avenue q a few months ago in NYC
1033 2011-01-20 11:02:45 <lfm> you just look lazy
1034 2011-01-20 11:03:03 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|is very lazy
1035 2011-01-20 11:03:11 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I'm so lazy I make my airplane fly itself
1036 2011-01-20 11:03:18 <sipa> nameless|: but i think the "is only for now" part is changed quite often
1037 2011-01-20 11:03:33 <sipa> i know of a friend who saw it both in NYC and in London, and the song was different
1038 2011-01-20 11:03:53 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Well I would hope they would change the london production to be relevant to London
1039 2011-01-20 11:03:58 <lfm> someone said theyd never trust a programmer that said he preferred a manual transmision to an automatic
1040 2011-01-20 11:03:59 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Anyway, I'm off to get coffee
1041 2011-01-20 11:04:18 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I prefer manual over automatic
1042 2011-01-20 11:04:23 <ArtForz> I prefer manual
1043 2011-01-20 11:04:23 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Unless you're in traffic
1044 2011-01-20 11:04:27 <ArtForz> yep
1045 2011-01-20 11:04:38 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|You have a lot more control over a manual car
1046 2011-01-20 11:04:40 * sipa has never used an automatic transmission
1047 2011-01-20 11:04:45 <ArtForz> in traffic automatic is fucking awesome
1048 2011-01-20 11:04:46 <sipa> it's rather uncommon here
1049 2011-01-20 11:04:54 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|For instance, I can out run that semi that's riding my ass by downshifting on demand
1050 2011-01-20 11:05:11 <noagendamarket> *can drive a syncromesh
1051 2011-01-20 11:05:16 <sipa> since if you do your exam using an automatic one, you're only allowed to drive automatic transmission cars
1052 2011-01-20 11:05:24 <ArtForz> same in .de
1053 2011-01-20 11:05:24 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I PREFER MY FUCKING SEGWAY!
1054 2011-01-20 11:05:25 <sipa> so everyone learns to drive on a manual one
1055 2011-01-20 11:05:27 <lfm> if you prefer manuals you will make your software too complicated with the excuse that its more efficient or better performance even if it takes more manpower
1056 2011-01-20 11:05:29 <noagendamarket> heh
1057 2011-01-20 11:05:39 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|lfm: false
1058 2011-01-20 11:05:45 <noagendamarket> didnt the guy who owned the segway company run off a cliff?
1059 2011-01-20 11:05:47 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|lfm: you are comparing cars to computers
1060 2011-01-20 11:05:51 <noagendamarket> in a segway?
1061 2011-01-20 11:05:59 <ArtForz> all-terrain segway
1062 2011-01-20 11:06:12 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|noagendamarket: I don't know, google that shit
1063 2011-01-20 11:06:21 <lfm> hang glider segway?
1064 2011-01-20 11:06:34 <ArtForz> I like manual for mountain and winter driving, automatic for city and heavy traffic
1065 2011-01-20 11:06:44 <ArtForz> manual RWD in winter = fun as hell
1066 2011-01-20 11:10:19 * davout despises car drivers while crossing the horizon line on his delicious suzuki 650
1067 2011-01-20 11:16:38 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
1068 2011-01-20 11:18:42 altamic has joined
1069 2011-01-20 11:29:33 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1070 2011-01-20 11:32:10 altamic has joined
1071 2011-01-20 11:33:02 <bitcoinz> hmzz my hashes suddenly dropped far below the million...i had to reset
1072 2011-01-20 11:33:10 xelister has joined
1073 2011-01-20 11:33:10 xelister has quit (Changing host)
1074 2011-01-20 11:33:10 xelister has joined
1075 2011-01-20 11:33:25 <bitcoinz> hi xelist :)
1076 2011-01-20 11:33:43 <bitcoinz> private please
1077 2011-01-20 11:33:49 <xelister> hi bitcoinz, mining going well? :) ok
1078 2011-01-20 11:43:51 <xelister> what happened to paying 50.00 with ballance 50.00 - it says innsufficient funds. For bitcoinz
1079 2011-01-20 11:44:04 <xelister> and 49.99 works... why? you normally do not pay 0.01 tx fee - or do you??
1080 2011-01-20 11:44:14 <ArtForz> yeah, it's weird
1081 2011-01-20 11:44:22 <ArtForz> shouldnt happen
1082 2011-01-20 11:44:35 <ArtForz> unless theres something reall weird with those 50.00
1083 2011-01-20 11:44:50 <lfm> you have some fractional bitcents I suspect
1084 2011-01-20 11:44:57 <ArtForz> even then it shouldnt happen
1085 2011-01-20 11:44:59 <xelister> they where fresh mined - 1st block
1086 2011-01-20 11:45:06 <xelister> afair, ask bitcoinz thou
1087 2011-01-20 11:45:38 <lfm> satoshi put some special code in for fractional cents and it has odd side effects
1088 2011-01-20 11:46:10 <xelister> perhaps this is why Yakuza is after him, lol
1089 2011-01-20 11:46:28 <xelister> also, what eventually happened to Satoshi, still no word, still noone maintains the client?
1090 2011-01-20 11:46:38 <ArtForz> yep, shouldnt happen
1091 2011-01-20 11:46:39 <ArtForz> unless somehow that was a 49.99x block, but how the fuck could that happen?
1092 2011-01-20 11:46:39 <ArtForz> otherwose you should be able to send 50.00 even if it was a 50.00somethign block (the something part ends up thrown away as fee)
1093 2011-01-20 11:46:51 <ArtForz> no, it works as iontended
1094 2011-01-20 11:47:08 alowm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1095 2011-01-20 11:47:13 alowm has joined
1096 2011-01-20 11:47:14 <ArtForz> throws away sub-cent outputs if they'd cause a 0.01 fee
1097 2011-01-20 11:47:17 <xelister> perhaps sending 49.9999999999 would worked, and he have there some mistake about rounding, and somehow ballance affter fxer needs to be > 0 like 0.00000001 ?
1098 2011-01-20 11:47:19 <lfm> 50.001 type blocks make it so you cant spend 50.00 its how it works honest\
1099 2011-01-20 11:47:26 <ArtForz> nope
1100 2011-01-20 11:47:28 <bitcoinz> when i installed bitcoin they adviced me to put the fee on 0,01.. but i cannot open the client because i'm running bitcoind
1101 2011-01-20 11:47:30 <ArtForz> thats just wrong
1102 2011-01-20 11:47:55 <ArtForz> if you have 50.001, you can send 50.00 just fine, the 0.001 gets thrown away as fee
1103 2011-01-20 11:47:59 <bitcoinz> guess when i reboot i can change it in the client
1104 2011-01-20 11:48:04 <ArtForz> yep
1105 2011-01-20 11:48:12 <ArtForz> change fee back to 0, it should work then
1106 2011-01-20 11:48:31 <ArtForz> with min fee set to 0.01 it always tries to send a 0.01 fee
1107 2011-01-20 11:48:36 <ArtForz> = you cant send your alst 50.00
1108 2011-01-20 11:48:41 <bitcoinz> hmhm
1109 2011-01-20 11:48:52 <bitcoinz> i'll change it soon
1110 2011-01-20 11:49:05 <xelister> with fee 0.01, it means that recipient gets 49.99 and the 0.01 is still taken from sender account leaving sender with 50-49.99-0.01 = 0 ? (and 0.01 goes to some block founder)?
1111 2011-01-20 11:49:19 <xelister> or is the fee only applied if there was big enough traffic that the fee was needed
1112 2011-01-20 11:49:24 <ArtForz> no
1113 2011-01-20 11:49:34 <ArtForz> if you set min fee, you always pay that fee
1114 2011-01-20 11:49:39 <ArtForz> if you dont, you dont
1115 2011-01-20 11:49:48 <xelister> ah ok
1116 2011-01-20 11:50:04 <bitcoinz> strange that setup recommended the fee
1117 2011-01-20 11:50:11 <ArtForz> yeah, thats.. .weird
1118 2011-01-20 11:50:18 <bitcoinz> i just do what i'm told, LOL
1119 2011-01-20 11:50:19 <ArtForz> of course miners will say thank you ;)
1120 2011-01-20 11:50:27 <xelister> bitcoinz: well it speeds up the transactions you make afaik, right? well it is just like 1 cent
1121 2011-01-20 11:50:40 <ArtForz> not really either unless theres tx spam going on
1122 2011-01-20 11:51:01 <xelister> on other topic
1123 2011-01-20 11:51:10 <xelister> so what is up with Satoshi and updates to bitcoin program
1124 2011-01-20 11:51:14 <ArtForz> no clue
1125 2011-01-20 11:51:25 <xelister> so there are no new versions?
1126 2011-01-20 11:51:34 <ArtForz> not official ones, no
1127 2011-01-20 11:51:44 <xelister> perhaps we should branch it
1128 2011-01-20 11:51:47 <xelister> eventually
1129 2011-01-20 11:51:49 <ArtForz> afaict gavin is maintaining a git "dev" branch
1130 2011-01-20 11:51:55 <lfm> we may have to promote gavin or something
1131 2011-01-20 11:52:02 <ArtForz> probably
1132 2011-01-20 11:52:10 <xelister> e.g. what if in 6 months it turns out a protocol/rules level change is absolutelly needed, then everyone needs to agree on it (all clients)
1133 2011-01-20 11:52:25 <ArtForz> hrrrm
1134 2011-01-20 11:52:28 <xelister> perhaps there should be a commitet, like C++ commitet
1135 2011-01-20 11:52:36 <xelister> but not like, NATO or FED commitet lol
1136 2011-01-20 11:52:48 <ArtForz> shrug
1137 2011-01-20 11:52:55 <ArtForz> currently it's not much of a problem
1138 2011-01-20 11:53:09 <lfm> xelister why would you ever need 100% of net, 50% rules
1139 2011-01-20 11:53:13 <xelister> but eventually.. it undermines belive in stability of the system if there is no leader
1140 2011-01-20 11:53:54 <lfm> xelister bitcoin fundamental is not central authority, not even satoshi\
1141 2011-01-20 11:54:07 <ArtForz> well, as long as sirius is still around it really isnt much of an issue
1142 2011-01-20 11:55:52 <ArtForz> correct me if i'm wrong, he's running bitcoin.org and regged the SF account
1143 2011-01-20 11:56:01 <bitcoinz> it is just the central authorities we need to get rid of XD
1144 2011-01-20 11:56:10 <xelister> lfm: yea but people need to agree on rules and network level protocol, otherwise BTC splits into separate currencies
1145 2011-01-20 11:56:23 <ArtForz> the bigger currency would win
1146 2011-01-20 11:56:30 <bitcoinz> cuz thay fuck up the world
1147 2011-01-20 11:56:53 <bitcoinz> i understand that
1148 2011-01-20 11:57:10 <bitcoinz> BTC should surely not split
1149 2011-01-20 11:57:33 <ArtForz> for which-tx-are-valid rules that'd invalidate blocks, one side would probably get a majority of traders/markets, and that's that
1150 2011-01-20 11:57:34 <bitcoinz> divide and conquerer is a bad habitute
1151 2011-01-20 11:57:51 <xelister> yes
1152 2011-01-20 11:58:11 <ArtForz> while the other chain might live on in a niche somewhere, it wont really do much
1153 2011-01-20 11:59:06 <noagendamarket> doesnt satoshi have the gpg key that signs updates?
1154 2011-01-20 11:59:10 <ArtForz> yep
1155 2011-01-20 11:59:17 <ArtForz> errr... no
1156 2011-01-20 11:59:23 <xelister> hmmm
1157 2011-01-20 11:59:30 <ArtForz> you mean the private ECDSA key for signing network notifications
1158 2011-01-20 11:59:30 <xelister> 49,99 sends 49.99 ?
1159 2011-01-20 11:59:36 <noagendamarket> yah
1160 2011-01-20 11:59:45 <ArtForz> easy enough to replace
1161 2011-01-20 12:00:10 <ArtForz> I think I don't even have that enabled here
1162 2011-01-20 12:00:11 <xelister> bitcoinz: actually you sent just 49 not 49.99 , I think it must be 49.99 not 49,99 :P well no problem, this can be fixed whenever
1163 2011-01-20 12:00:21 <xelister> although the client should report bad number format.
1164 2011-01-20 12:01:26 <xelister> it seems it just quietly interprets as much of number as possible
1165 2011-01-20 12:01:36 <ArtForz> Bad number format! Abort/Retry/Cancel?
1166 2011-01-20 12:01:39 <ArtForz> ;)
1167 2011-01-20 12:01:52 <xelister> Abort? Yes/No/FileNotFound
1168 2011-01-20 12:02:02 <ArtForz> Brillant!
1169 2011-01-20 12:02:27 <dsg> xelister: It should interpret the number depending on locale, not all countries have the same rules for ,/.
1170 2011-01-20 12:02:37 <xelister> dsg: this is stupid
1171 2011-01-20 12:02:42 <dsg> This is the way it is.
1172 2011-01-20 12:02:50 <xelister> to be more blunt, this is fucking stupid as fuck
1173 2011-01-20 12:02:51 <dsg> It's stupid to force one countries rules where they don't apply.
1174 2011-01-20 12:03:08 * xelister beats up dsg with a metal pole, in a friendly way
1175 2011-01-20 12:03:11 <dsg> xelister: I'm guessing you are from the US?
1176 2011-01-20 12:03:21 * xelister beats up fuck out of dsg with a metal pole, in a friendly way!!!
1177 2011-01-20 12:03:26 <xelister> no sir Im not from USA
1178 2011-01-20 12:03:26 <ArtForz> btw, wasnt that how someone fixed the problem of users just clicking OK on a error message (and then having no clue what it said when calling support)? replacing OK on the error dialog with Abort/Retry/Ignore/Cancel/Yes/No/KickDog/42/...
1179 2011-01-20 12:03:31 <bitcoinz> i already sent 49,99 Art
1180 2011-01-20 12:03:39 <xelister> ;)
1181 2011-01-20 12:03:48 <xelister> dsg: it should alway just use same format like 49.99
1182 2011-01-20 12:03:55 <xelister> and not reply on stupid local!!! wtf man
1183 2011-01-20 12:04:00 <xelister> *rely
1184 2011-01-20 12:04:07 <dsg> No, it should use LC_NUMERIC like POSIX says, damnit.
1185 2011-01-20 12:04:12 <ArtForz> why even use decimal format at all?
1186 2011-01-20 12:04:17 <xelister> otherwise you can not code programs correctly and portable, and shit works on one computer but not another... brrr
1187 2011-01-20 12:04:27 <dsg> Or is this an LC_MONETARY thing?
1188 2011-01-20 12:04:29 <dsg> Not sure
1189 2011-01-20 12:04:34 <xelister> ArtForz: then what else? value and divider? sucks
1190 2011-01-20 12:04:41 <ArtForz> base units, duh
1191 2011-01-20 12:04:45 <xelister> dsg: of cours not
1192 2011-01-20 12:04:54 <dsg> *facepalm*
1193 2011-01-20 12:04:59 <xelister> dsg: what the fuck ;)
1194 2011-01-20 12:05:01 <ArtForz> so just send 5000000000
1195 2011-01-20 12:05:12 <dsg> ArtForz: Ah, I could get behind that
1196 2011-01-20 12:05:15 <xelister> using locale in PROTOCOLS and APIs is just fucking stupid
1197 2011-01-20 12:05:20 <dsg> With sane SI prefixes
1198 2011-01-20 12:05:26 <lfm> LC_MONETARY would be for the local currency, it should not be used for btc
1199 2011-01-20 12:05:29 <xelister> locale should be when there is human interaction, like in the GUI. not in rpc
1200 2011-01-20 12:05:32 <dsg> xelister: Uh, who's talking protocol?
1201 2011-01-20 12:05:37 <dsg> Sorry, I may have misunderstood.
1202 2011-01-20 12:05:38 <ArtForz> yep
1203 2011-01-20 12:05:46 <xelister> dsg: Im talking ~/bitcoin foo bar which is basically like using RPC
1204 2011-01-20 12:05:46 <ArtForz> RPC shouldnt depend on locale
1205 2011-01-20 12:05:51 <ArtForz> yep
1206 2011-01-20 12:06:01 <dsg> Of course protocol should not depend on locale. I think we have a misunderstanding here. :)
1207 2011-01-20 12:06:04 <xelister> cli commands are just simularing rpc to not type like wget ..... stuff
1208 2011-01-20 12:06:09 <xelister> ok ;)
1209 2011-01-20 12:06:25 <bitcoinz> yeah i wasn't sure about using a dot or comma
1210 2011-01-20 12:06:34 <bitcoinz> lol
1211 2011-01-20 12:06:37 <xelister> =)
1212 2011-01-20 12:06:43 <ArtForz> RPC reports everything with .s, so .s it is
1213 2011-01-20 12:06:55 <ArtForz> wel, mine doesn't
1214 2011-01-20 12:07:10 <ArtForz> I just use base units
1215 2011-01-20 12:07:57 <bitcoinz> hmm better
1216 2011-01-20 12:08:37 <ArtForz> yeah, my patchset is getting kinda... unwieldy
1217 2011-01-20 12:09:16 <bitcoinz> how do i exchange my BC for babies? xd
1218 2011-01-20 12:09:31 <bitcoinz> (i am not stoned)
1219 2011-01-20 12:09:40 <bitcoinz> :P
1220 2011-01-20 12:09:42 <ArtForz> btw, just noticed another thing mainline should probably add
1221 2011-01-20 12:09:55 <xelister> baby what?
1222 2011-01-20 12:09:59 * xelister offers baby seals
1223 2011-01-20 12:10:03 <xelister> :P
1224 2011-01-20 12:10:04 <ArtForz> if you're mining, your own transactions get priority
1225 2011-01-20 12:10:40 <xelister> - ohhh look its a basket! and tere is a baby in it! <bender> baby what? o-< *buuum*
1226 2011-01-20 12:10:48 <xelister> o-)
1227 2011-01-20 12:10:49 <ArtForz> so a baby seal walks into a club...
1228 2011-01-20 12:11:34 <bitcoinz> and then?
1229 2011-01-20 12:11:54 <xelister> warranty is void?
1230 2011-01-20 12:12:46 RazielZ has joined
1231 2011-01-20 12:13:03 <ArtForz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_clubbing
1232 2011-01-20 12:13:36 <noagendamarket> lolwat
1233 2011-01-20 12:14:09 <noagendamarket> Probably the same place you can buy a kidney for bitcoins
1234 2011-01-20 12:15:16 <xelister> so, mexico?
1235 2011-01-20 12:16:22 <xelister> Mexico. More then 2 fammily members kidnaped? With this cupon you get -500 BTC when bailing out 2 or more. Check out website for other hot deals
1236 2011-01-20 12:18:19 <xelister> we should get 5 of this cupons and ask Yakuza about satoshi alraedy
1237 2011-01-20 12:23:19 <lfm> coupons?
1238 2011-01-20 12:23:42 <xelister> yea
1239 2011-01-20 12:30:24 dduane has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1240 2011-01-20 12:30:27 <andrew12> school sux
1241 2011-01-20 12:31:19 andrew12^mac has quit (Quit: leaving)
1242 2011-01-20 12:32:06 <LobsterMan> ;;bc.stats
1243 2011-01-20 12:32:06 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
1244 2011-01-20 12:32:11 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1245 2011-01-20 12:32:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 103639 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 1192 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 51 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 21461.84631067
1246 2011-01-20 12:34:06 dduane has joined
1247 2011-01-20 12:36:35 <bitcoinz> stupid difficulty
1248 2011-01-20 12:37:13 <bitcoinz> thats the only thing i dont like with bc
1249 2011-01-20 12:37:34 <noagendamarket> Its not meant to be easy :)
1250 2011-01-20 12:39:06 <bitcoinz> well...if it keep raising...mining will morely occur in countries with very low energy prices :(
1251 2011-01-20 12:39:13 <andrew12> quick! modify the code so we can set a network id or something ridiculous
1252 2011-01-20 12:39:26 <andrew12> 255 separate bitcoin networks
1253 2011-01-20 12:39:31 <andrew12> :P
1254 2011-01-20 12:40:37 <bitcoinz> it will become unprofitable in western countries like holland paying 25 cent kw/h
1255 2011-01-20 12:40:39 <dsg> Selling region 5 bitcoins at 37 ISK... :P
1256 2011-01-20 12:41:50 <bitcoinz> ISK?
1257 2011-01-20 12:42:32 <noagendamarket> where is the cheapest electrical prices in the world?
1258 2011-01-20 12:42:43 <bitcoinz> like canada
1259 2011-01-20 12:42:46 <andrew12> noagendamarket: solar power :P
1260 2011-01-20 12:42:53 <bitcoinz> 7 cent kw/h
1261 2011-01-20 12:42:54 <xelister> chernobyl? :P
1262 2011-01-20 12:42:58 <noagendamarket> yeah yopu have a point
1263 2011-01-20 12:43:17 <bitcoinz> i am planning solar power:)
1264 2011-01-20 12:43:28 <dsg> About 10 cent/kWh in Iceland
1265 2011-01-20 12:43:29 <bitcoinz> need to save money for that
1266 2011-01-20 12:43:35 <bitcoinz> 7000 â¬
1267 2011-01-20 12:43:53 <dsg> for residential. If you started commercial mining you could get cheaper electricity
1268 2011-01-20 12:43:54 <xelister> ArtForz: take a trip to your .tw factory via russia, and order some small nuclear reactor, the should have few laying around in submarine docks ;)
1269 2011-01-20 12:43:56 <bitcoinz> 2800 kw/h each year
1270 2011-01-20 12:44:26 <noagendamarket> so canada is pretty cheap?
1271 2011-01-20 12:44:40 <bitcoinz> yeah move ther..
1272 2011-01-20 12:44:40 <xelister> or!!! install miners ON atomic submarine lol. Big latency though when submerged
1273 2011-01-20 12:44:43 <noagendamarket> last time i looked we get charged 11 cents
1274 2011-01-20 12:45:46 <bitcoinz> not much
1275 2011-01-20 12:47:42 <andrew12> omg
1276 2011-01-20 12:47:44 <andrew12> atomic miner
1277 2011-01-20 12:50:03 <noagendamarket> you can get a reaCTOR THAT FITS IN YOUR BACKYARD
1278 2011-01-20 12:50:14 <noagendamarket> ah damn capslock
1279 2011-01-20 12:53:35 <xelister> in other news
1280 2011-01-20 12:54:22 <xelister> An German terrorist involved in pedoring "freenet" and money scheme "bitcoin" and terrorism supporter - now charged with dirty bomb possession charges. More American Viewpoint news here on challen 3 at 8 o'clock.
1281 2011-01-20 12:54:35 <xelister> <_<
1282 2011-01-20 12:55:42 <xelister> local news: more terrorists pacified after they resistning groping they children on airport by qualified TSA authorities
1283 2011-01-20 12:56:08 * xelister 's spelling sucks. Where is kiba when you need copywrither
1284 2011-01-20 12:56:28 m0mchil has joined
1285 2011-01-20 12:56:30 <andrew12> thought you guys might be interested in this: http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/
1286 2011-01-20 12:56:39 <andrew12> it's a really good book to learn ruby.
1287 2011-01-20 13:03:00 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 105000
1288 2011-01-20 13:03:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 105000 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 1 week, 1 day, 17 hours, 29 minutes, and 41 seconds
1289 2011-01-20 13:03:32 * davout approves of this book
1290 2011-01-20 13:07:48 <xelister> LobsterMan: nvidia? radeon?
1291 2011-01-20 13:08:02 <LobsterMan> 2x nvidia gtx275
1292 2011-01-20 13:09:00 <LobsterMan> i've been trying to oc them but it keeps crashing the nvidia driver then it reverts to some low power state that i need to reboot to reset
1293 2011-01-20 13:09:00 <LobsterMan> :\
1294 2011-01-20 13:14:10 bitcoinz has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1295 2011-01-20 13:16:54 <necrodearia> I received an invitation from Chris Angelini asking if someone is interested in writing a story specifically on the purpose of Bitcoin, the app and/or development, and anything else that is of importance I imagine.
1296 2011-01-20 13:17:19 <necrodearia> Does anyone have any suggestions on who would be most appropriate to assist with preparing a story?
1297 2011-01-20 13:17:37 <necrodearia> or besides appropriation, most knowledgeable?
1298 2011-01-20 13:19:25 <necrodearia> niekie, tcatm, ArtForz, jgarzik: o/
1299 2011-01-20 13:20:16 <xelister> necrodearia: run it also on forum?
1300 2011-01-20 13:20:20 <necrodearia> Sure
1301 2011-01-20 13:22:24 <necrodearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2889
1302 2011-01-20 13:25:29 <xelister> how anonymous is bitcoin ? Toad (freenet developer) says it seems to him it is tracable even with TOR
1303 2011-01-20 13:25:31 lappie_ has joined
1304 2011-01-20 13:27:13 lappie__ has joined
1305 2011-01-20 13:27:55 <xelister> with bitcoin-over-some-anon-transport, if we assume resoursfull attacker (can deploy 1000 bitcoin nodes and analyze traffics and parse lots of data) but that can NOT break the anon-transport layer alone - what can the attacker do exactly? Know that guy X mines BTC, then this X payed it to guy Y, and Y payed to Z? and know that Y also paid to Z2 and say Z2 was real-life transaction so then they can trace back a bit?
1306 2011-01-20 13:29:31 lappie__ has quit (Client Quit)
1307 2011-01-20 13:30:10 <ArtForz> I actually doubt even that
1308 2011-01-20 13:30:18 <lfm> I dont think you can know with certainty who mined any specific block
1309 2011-01-20 13:30:24 <ArtForz> yep
1310 2011-01-20 13:30:31 <ArtForz> neither who sent any transaction
1311 2011-01-20 13:31:09 <ArtForz> and for timing attacks theres always the freenet "probably was from a node connected to me" copout
1312 2011-01-20 13:31:20 <xelister> well but with unprotected IP network
1313 2011-01-20 13:31:33 <xelister> you can tie generating to IP, and transactions to IPs
1314 2011-01-20 13:31:35 <xelister> right?
1315 2011-01-20 13:31:40 <ArtForz> how?
1316 2011-01-20 13:31:43 <lfm> no
1317 2011-01-20 13:31:59 <xelister> deploy 1000 bitcoin nodes and observe entire network at once
1318 2011-01-20 13:32:06 <ArtForz> you can't
1319 2011-01-20 13:32:09 <xelister> see which IP first mentiones new-block-nr1000
1320 2011-01-20 13:32:20 <ArtForz> what about nodes running with -connect?
1321 2011-01-20 13:32:44 <xelister> just with -connect? so they are sort of bitcoin-darknet
1322 2011-01-20 13:32:49 <ArtForz> yep
1323 2011-01-20 13:33:09 <lfm> so if I generate a block and I am connected to another node and pass the block to that node first, you might hear from the second node before you hear from me
1324 2011-01-20 13:33:13 <xelister> ok that makes it harder, but you will find the darknet-to-opennet friends of the taget
1325 2011-01-20 13:33:18 <ArtForz> yep
1326 2011-01-20 13:33:27 <xelister> then van them
1327 2011-01-20 13:33:32 <ArtForz> except I dont need permission from that "friend" ;)
1328 2011-01-20 13:33:42 sabalaba has joined
1329 2011-01-20 13:33:47 <ArtForz> so no go on realtime tracing
1330 2011-01-20 13:33:49 <xelister> or, on ISP level observe which Ip talks to all such friends, especially on port 8888, and that is your target
1331 2011-01-20 13:34:25 <xelister> there.
1332 2011-01-20 13:34:36 <ArtForz> and of course theres always bitcoin-over-tor
1333 2011-01-20 13:34:55 <xelister> ok, I was so far explaning the without-tor scenario
1334 2011-01-20 13:35:17 <xelister> so we agree, without TOR, attacker that can deploy few nodes (cost ~200 usd) can know who(IP) generated which block
1335 2011-01-20 13:35:19 <ducki2p> I think the biggest anonymity problem is correlating transactions back to associated pseudonyms
1336 2011-01-20 13:35:32 <ArtForz> few?
1337 2011-01-20 13:35:34 <xelister> right?
1338 2011-01-20 13:35:45 <ArtForz> it's a plain ole sybil attack
1339 2011-01-20 13:35:56 <xelister> ArtForz: depend on how detailed you want to be. yea
1340 2011-01-20 13:36:00 <lfm> \xelister I dont agree
1341 2011-01-20 13:36:51 <xelister> lfm: how would you defend from sybil (many IPs) observing you and noticing eventually YOU was the first one to mentione given new block, so obviously you mined it
1342 2011-01-20 13:37:07 <ArtForz> but you can only observe a block *once*
1343 2011-01-20 13:37:23 <lfm> nope I could have got it from someone else I am connected to
1344 2011-01-20 13:37:26 <xelister> you mean, hard to tie it to later spending of the block?
1345 2011-01-20 13:37:45 <xelister> lfm: then you are using bitcoin-darkent or some anon net
1346 2011-01-20 13:38:18 <xelister> so far I wonder why we need anon transport, e.g. what can happen without it
1347 2011-01-20 13:39:15 <lfm> if you own my i-proveder perhaps you can monitor all my communications but can you own all nodes ip s?
1348 2011-01-20 13:42:31 <lfm> each btc node has typically 8 connections. even if you are 7 of them you can know if blocks you get from me were generated by me or by the other connection
1349 2011-01-20 13:42:46 <lfm> cant
1350 2011-01-20 13:43:10 <ArtForz> hmmm... that reminds me of something
1351 2011-01-20 13:43:18 <ArtForz> for blocks it doesnt matter much really
1352 2011-01-20 13:43:56 <ArtForz> for transactions there should be some uncertainity for (re)broadcasts
1353 2011-01-20 13:44:31 sabalabas has joined
1354 2011-01-20 13:44:42 sabalabas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1355 2011-01-20 13:45:40 <lfm> same applies to txn as blocks. there is no way to know where txn originate unless you have outside knowledge of who owns what btc address
1356 2011-01-20 13:47:18 <ArtForz> yep
1357 2011-01-20 13:47:41 <ArtForz> but with a bit more randomness it would be a LOT harder to tell without needing a lot more observers
1358 2011-01-20 13:49:06 <lfm> nodes might want to add some random delays to make traffic annalysis harder but even without it there cannot be certainty imho
1359 2011-01-20 13:49:12 <ArtForz> yep
1360 2011-01-20 13:50:25 <ArtForz> not to mention the good old "had to be some guy on my open WiFi" excuse
1361 2011-01-20 13:51:23 Kiba has joined
1362 2011-01-20 13:51:38 <lfm> oh dear I only use wep encryption! you say people can break it! thats terrible!
1363 2011-01-20 13:52:33 <ArtForz> "encrypting the access point? is that like reversing the deflector polarity?"
1364 2011-01-20 13:53:41 <lfm> recharge the dylithium crystals? right away sir!
1365 2011-01-20 13:54:40 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1366 2011-01-20 13:55:48 Kiba has joined
1367 2011-01-20 13:56:43 <xelister> lfm: gov monitors all ip traffic. duuuuuh
1368 2011-01-20 13:57:04 <xelister> lfm: gov (and who ever bribes some official) can see all network connections
1369 2011-01-20 13:57:26 <xelister> it is how TOR is easiest broken by gov
1370 2011-01-20 13:58:34 * nathan7 nods
1371 2011-01-20 13:58:39 <xelister> since bitcoin does not do time aggregations, timing attack can easly show flow of new block message even if its content is encrypted
1372 2011-01-20 13:58:53 <lfm> well usa gov monitors all traffic it can get its hands on but there will inevitably be some forign traffic that slips thru, and there is also a couple vpn connections that may or may not carry btc traffic
1373 2011-01-20 13:59:14 lala has joined
1374 2011-01-20 14:00:57 <xelister> well ok, monitoring all *World* traffic is more expensive and there may be some white spots here and there
1375 2011-01-20 14:01:09 <lfm> and I spoze if gov had a truck outside my house they COULD tell if someone was freeloading on my lan
1376 2011-01-20 14:01:13 <xelister> but overall attack should be very usable in most cases
1377 2011-01-20 14:01:54 gavinandresen has joined
1378 2011-01-20 14:02:43 <gavinandresen> Good morning y'all. I need naming advice...
1379 2011-01-20 14:03:04 <noagendamarket> hey gavin
1380 2011-01-20 14:03:06 <lfm> if you have all traffic for a node then I suppose you could tell if it is creating blocks and txn. I dont think you could get all traffic for all nodes in btc net
1381 2011-01-20 14:04:17 <lfm> hi gavin what are you nameing?
1382 2011-01-20 14:04:17 <ArtForz> oi
1383 2011-01-20 14:04:19 <ArtForz> http://semiaccurate.com/2011/01/18/1gb-radeon-hd-6970-set-launch-next-month/
1384 2011-01-20 14:04:41 <gavinandresen> So I've implemented a function that looks through all past transactions to find transactions to/from keys in your wallet. And I'm trying to think of a good name for the command-line switch to run it at startup.
1385 2011-01-20 14:05:07 <lfm> auditwallet ?
1386 2011-01-20 14:06:11 Bit-Coinz has joined
1387 2011-01-20 14:06:17 lala has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1388 2011-01-20 14:06:25 <m0mchil> scan, or scanTXs?
1389 2011-01-20 14:06:49 * davout has performed his daily tasks, goes back to bitcoin-central.net code! yay
1390 2011-01-20 14:07:17 <gavinandresen> Maybe -take-a-long-time-to-look-for-missing-wallet-transactions Or is that too long?
1391 2011-01-20 14:07:35 <lfm> fine with me! hehe
1392 2011-01-20 14:08:05 <davout> gavinandresen: that means no more redownloading chain when switching wallets?
1393 2011-01-20 14:08:41 <gavinandresen> davout: I didn't implement it for that, but yes.
1394 2011-01-20 14:09:08 <m0mchil> gavinandresen: I guess there is a parameter about how many blocks back to search?
1395 2011-01-20 14:09:25 <davout> gavinandresen: nice! i suggest force-rescan or sthg like that, why did you implement it ?
1396 2011-01-20 14:09:40 <gavinandresen> m0mchil: nope. The method it calls does start at a particular CBlockIndex, though.
1397 2011-01-20 14:09:57 <sipa> --rescan
1398 2011-01-20 14:10:14 <gavinandresen> I implemented it to fix tcatm's "I copied my wallet and now sum(accounts) != getbalance" bug.
1399 2011-01-20 14:11:22 <m0mchil> +1 for rescan
1400 2011-01-20 14:11:22 <gavinandresen> sipa: -rescan is what I implemented, I wonder if -rescantx or -rescanblocks would be better.
1401 2011-01-20 14:12:51 <davout> gavinandresen: rescan is fine with me
1402 2011-01-20 14:13:07 <davout> does it take a long time to rescan the whole chain ?
1403 2011-01-20 14:13:10 <sipa> can you find a meaningful (possibly not implemented) action that would correspond to rescantx or rescanblocks what differs?
1404 2011-01-20 14:13:31 <sipa> ".correct_english();
1405 2011-01-20 14:14:12 <gavinandresen> davout: I haven't actually run -rescan on a production wallet yet, so I don't know.
1406 2011-01-20 14:15:36 <davout> allright, i wonder if it's going to be that much faster than a re-download
1407 2011-01-20 14:16:03 <lfm> davout yes I think it should be faster
1408 2011-01-20 14:16:15 <davout> when i redownloaded a chain to update a switched wallet balance i found that the download slowed down a lot when approching the head of the chain
1409 2011-01-20 14:16:36 <davout> so i suspect there was a lot of time spent on actually parsing transactions
1410 2011-01-20 14:16:38 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1411 2011-01-20 14:16:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: I can imagine doing some other sort of rescan (maybe rescanning addresses in addr.dat and removing any on a 'black list' or something)... but I suppose it'd be ok if we had -rescan and then -rescanaddresses
1412 2011-01-20 14:17:39 <gavinandresen> davout: it will be extremely disk-intensive, because every transaction has to be read from the tx db
1413 2011-01-20 14:19:17 <davout> gavinandresen: maybe you could read the blockchain into RAM before actually starting the process ?
1414 2011-01-20 14:19:22 <davout> like in one pass
1415 2011-01-20 14:19:30 <davout> shouldn't be that hug to hold in RAM
1416 2011-01-20 14:19:33 <davout> *huge
1417 2011-01-20 14:20:10 <lfm> youd want the txn index too
1418 2011-01-20 14:20:25 <gavinandresen> That wouldn't make it any faster-- still have to read every transaction from disk.
1419 2011-01-20 14:20:42 Bit-Coinz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1420 2011-01-20 14:21:05 <davout> yea but you wouldn't be switching from reading to processing to reading i guess
1421 2011-01-20 14:21:43 <ArtForz> yep, considering the whole block chain is only 65MB or so a optimized scan shouldnt take more than a second or so on I/O
1422 2011-01-20 14:21:50 <gavinandresen> I'm not going to spend time optimizing something that typical users will do once every six years.
1423 2011-01-20 14:21:57 <ArtForz> yep
1424 2011-01-20 14:22:35 <lfm> ya optimizing just makes more bugs, better to be slower and accurate
1425 2011-01-20 14:22:36 <gavinandresen> ... but if you "I change my wallet more often than I change my underwear" types want to submit a super-fast-scan patch.....
1426 2011-01-20 14:23:17 <xelister> ArtForz: or 30 seconds, if you also run fn node ;)
1427 2011-01-20 14:23:57 <lfm> or you're on an atom nettop
1428 2011-01-20 14:24:59 <ArtForz> btw, bitcoin with ~ on NFS share is pretty slow
1429 2011-01-20 14:25:18 <ArtForz> and water is pretty wet ;)
1430 2011-01-20 14:25:32 <gavinandresen> ... "doctor, it hurts when I twist my arm like this...."
1431 2011-01-20 14:26:21 <ArtForz> yes, why would people want to have the same home dir accessible from multiple workstations, nobody needs that
1432 2011-01-20 14:27:40 <gavinandresen> Do other database-intensive apps solve the problem? Or do other database perform better over NFS?
1433 2011-01-20 14:27:48 <ArtForz> nah
1434 2011-01-20 14:27:53 <sipa> davout: about switching from processing and disk reading -> typically your OS's disk cache takes care of this
1435 2011-01-20 14:27:57 <lfm> fortunatly for those fools the -datadir=<dir> switch was invented
1436 2011-01-20 14:28:13 <ArtForz> fsync for nfs mounted stuff is just REALLY slow
1437 2011-01-20 14:28:32 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1438 2011-01-20 14:28:37 <ArtForz> well, with linux at least
1439 2011-01-20 14:29:25 <davout> linux sucks get ubuntu instead \o/
1440 2011-01-20 14:29:36 <ArtForz> I suspect it's actually doing a global sync on the nfs mount
1441 2011-01-20 14:30:14 <ArtForz> davout: obvious troll is obvious
1442 2011-01-20 14:30:39 <davout> ArtForz: your face is obvious
1443 2011-01-20 14:30:41 <davout> :D
1444 2011-01-20 14:31:01 <ArtForz> btw, I'd rather use IRIX than debian-for-idiots
1445 2011-01-20 14:31:01 <davout> or, the french way : "stoi qu'est obviousse"
1446 2011-01-20 14:31:23 <davout> meh
1447 2011-01-20 14:32:15 <davout> as i already stated numerous times
1448 2011-01-20 14:32:27 <davout> "ich mag rauchwurst und golf zu spielen"
1449 2011-01-20 14:32:33 <lfm> irix kinda tends to be bigendian dont it? I dont think bitcoin has been endian debugged yet
1450 2011-01-20 14:32:46 <ArtForz> bitcoin is *not* endian-clean
1451 2011-01-20 14:33:42 <lfm> ya thats the term I was trying to think of
1452 2011-01-20 14:33:58 <ArtForz> hell, it's not even endian-aware
1453 2011-01-20 14:38:29 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1454 2011-01-20 14:54:17 lfm has quit (Quit: brb)
1455 2011-01-20 14:57:33 * davout is getting annoyed at github's stupid pink unicorn
1456 2011-01-20 14:57:47 Kiba has joined
1457 2011-01-20 15:01:32 lfm has joined
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1459 2011-01-20 15:13:55 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1460 2011-01-20 15:14:19 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1461 2011-01-20 15:21:18 <devon_hillard> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-2600K+%40+3.40GHz
1462 2011-01-20 15:21:28 <davout> hey, does someone here have an account at bitcoin central with some LREUR/LRUSD in it ?
1463 2011-01-20 15:21:52 <davout> nevermind i haven't deployed my fix yet...
1464 2011-01-20 15:24:54 chaord has joined
1465 2011-01-20 15:26:18 dwdollar has joined
1466 2011-01-20 15:26:21 <Kiba> hello
1467 2011-01-20 15:27:16 <dwdollar> howdy :)
1468 2011-01-20 15:28:09 <Kiba> competition is showing up at the door
1469 2011-01-20 15:28:19 <Kiba> will dwdollar's business survive?
1470 2011-01-20 15:29:18 <dwdollar> someone new?
1471 2011-01-20 15:29:34 <Kiba> Bitcoin Central
1472 2011-01-20 15:33:22 <davout> i like competition, it's a nice
1473 2011-01-20 15:35:16 <davout> also i need a fucking SCI
1474 2011-01-20 15:36:02 <Kiba> bitcoinservice.co.uk is the only download site left standing
1475 2011-01-20 15:39:26 <davout> Kiba: would you download a car ?
1476 2011-01-20 15:39:47 <Kiba> if it's free
1477 2011-01-20 15:42:54 dishwara has joined
1478 2011-01-20 15:58:45 gavinandresen has joined
1479 2011-01-20 15:59:25 grondilu has joined
1480 2011-01-20 15:59:38 * davout just fucked bitcoin central up
1481 2011-01-20 16:02:33 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1482 2011-01-20 16:03:01 <grondilu> yeah davout I had noticed some troubles with your site today
1483 2011-01-20 16:03:52 <grondilu> you should make a test site, for you experimentations
1484 2011-01-20 16:04:49 dishwara has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1485 2011-01-20 16:08:15 <Kiba> davout: a staging server, in other words
1486 2011-01-20 16:09:00 <davout> yea
1487 2011-01-20 16:09:03 <davout> probably
1488 2011-01-20 16:09:24 <davout> it's fixed tho
1489 2011-01-20 16:09:26 <davout> :)
1490 2011-01-20 16:09:32 <grondilu> on the other hand, I know how lame it is to code on a test plateform. It's just much more fun to code directly on production.
1491 2011-01-20 16:09:39 <davout> grondilu: what did you notice ?
1492 2011-01-20 16:10:06 <Kiba> grondilu: I suppose you think a checklist is lame too
1493 2011-01-20 16:10:06 <grondilu> when I was selecting the currency in the trade book, nothing happened.
1494 2011-01-20 16:10:10 <davout> thing is, usually rails is awesome with test suites, but when you have to deal with a ton of APIs its much harder
1495 2011-01-20 16:10:28 <davout> grondilu: seems to work now
1496 2011-01-20 16:10:46 <davout> i actually sold BTC on mtgox just to have a few LRUSD to do tests with :)
1497 2011-01-20 16:10:49 <grondilu> nope
1498 2011-01-20 16:11:07 <davout> did you disable javascript ?
1499 2011-01-20 16:11:39 <grondilu> no, I don't think so. But I had some trouble with my browser today, so your site might not be the issue.
1500 2011-01-20 16:12:10 <davout> grondilu: my site is made of html and epic win, it cannot be the issue :D
1501 2011-01-20 16:12:29 <altamic> davout: could you check my recent orders involving LRUSD ?
1502 2011-01-20 16:12:31 <grondilu> yeah I'm pretty sure it's just arora which is completely messed up.
1503 2011-01-20 16:13:24 <davout> altamic: msg sent
1504 2011-01-20 16:13:29 <altamic> ok thx
1505 2011-01-20 16:14:59 Zarutian has joined
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1507 2011-01-20 16:21:16 <grondilu> davout, you know what would be nice ? An algebraic summation of each column in the trade history page.
1508 2011-01-20 16:21:20 Guest56008 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1509 2011-01-20 16:24:03 <grondilu> also, I wish I could include current trades in the history page (with some additional field showing "not yet executed", for instance)
1510 2011-01-20 16:24:29 <idev> Hello Grondilu
1511 2011-01-20 16:24:34 james has joined
1512 2011-01-20 16:25:00 james is now known as Guest61665
1513 2011-01-20 16:25:50 Diablo-D3 has joined
1514 2011-01-20 16:26:01 <grondilu> Hi idev
1515 2011-01-20 16:26:19 <grondilu> so, what does your stuff do exactly ?
1516 2011-01-20 16:26:41 <idev> its a stock manger script
1517 2011-01-20 16:27:12 <grondilu> ok so it allows to have accounts of share holdings, right ?
1518 2011-01-20 16:27:17 <idev> which auto updates the share price in reflection of market forces
1519 2011-01-20 16:27:26 <idev> yep
1520 2011-01-20 16:27:37 <grondilu> what identifies an owner ? password ?
1521 2011-01-20 16:27:38 <davout> grondilu: would ou mind emailing me your ideas? i gotta run and i don't really understand them right now XD
1522 2011-01-20 16:27:53 <grondilu> davout: ok
1523 2011-01-20 16:28:02 <davout> grondilu: cimer grobert
1524 2011-01-20 16:28:04 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
1525 2011-01-20 16:28:16 <idev> well that one problem, atm the script does not support an owership system for share owners
1526 2011-01-20 16:28:34 <grondilu> ?
1527 2011-01-20 16:28:45 <grondilu> seriously ?
1528 2011-01-20 16:28:59 <idev> its has a members area where users can buy, share exhange shares
1529 2011-01-20 16:29:22 <grondilu> ok, what happens when a dividend has to be paid ?
1530 2011-01-20 16:29:54 <idev> its can be requested and withdraw via the script in the members area
1531 2011-01-20 16:30:20 <grondilu> it has to be requested ? It's not automatic ?
1532 2011-01-20 16:30:50 <idev> it can be both auto or requested pending admin aproval
1533 2011-01-20 16:30:55 <grondilu> ok
1534 2011-01-20 16:30:55 james_ has joined
1535 2011-01-20 16:31:10 <grondilu> is there a market place ? with a booking order and stuffs ?
1536 2011-01-20 16:31:35 Guest61665 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1537 2011-01-20 16:32:03 <grondilu> sorry I mean "order book"
1538 2011-01-20 16:32:14 <idev> well sort of, all shares in the system will have its own chart for pricing, and in the members area users may choose which share they would like to purcahse
1539 2011-01-20 16:33:04 <grondilu> hum, that's very much different from what I had in mind
1540 2011-01-20 16:33:34 <idev> i see
1541 2011-01-20 16:33:44 <grondilu> I want to separate the trading aspect from the brokerage aspect.
1542 2011-01-20 16:34:01 <idev> i understand
1543 2011-01-20 16:34:28 <grondilu> My plateform allows irrevocable transfer of shares. This can be used by an other system to do trading.
1544 2011-01-20 16:34:54 <grondilu> An each "owner" is only identified by a bitcoin address.
1545 2011-01-20 16:35:08 <grondilu> This makes it very easy for paiement of dividends
1546 2011-01-20 16:35:22 <idev> my system is irrevocable as well
1547 2011-01-20 16:35:43 <grondilu> sorry, I meant "unilateral"
1548 2011-01-20 16:35:57 <idev> i see
1549 2011-01-20 16:36:04 <grondilu> Alice gives a share to Bob, but doesn't expect nothing from Bob.
1550 2011-01-20 16:36:25 <grondilu> The "exchange" part is managed elsewhere.
1551 2011-01-20 16:36:32 <idev> i see
1552 2011-01-20 16:36:55 <idev> well you can see a demo of the script here to give you an idea http://www.goldcoders.com/shares
1553 2011-01-20 16:37:09 <grondilu> ok I'll have a look at that
1554 2011-01-20 16:37:28 <idev> no prob
1555 2011-01-20 16:38:31 <grondilu> hopefully in a few days I'll be able to host my cgi on freeshell.org
1556 2011-01-20 16:39:10 <idev> if you need hosting i can help you out if needed?
1557 2011-01-20 16:39:43 <grondilu> can you ? what do you charge ?
1558 2011-01-20 16:40:43 <idev> i can give you unlimited space and bw for 25-35bc per month
1559 2011-01-20 16:42:08 <grondilu> ok. Well, if I fail using freeshell then I might contact you.
1560 2011-01-20 16:42:33 <idev> no problem, when ever you need
1561 2011-01-20 16:42:44 <idev> so what do you think about the script?
1562 2011-01-20 16:43:05 <grondilu> I don't like the password thing
1563 2011-01-20 16:43:43 <grondilu> also, you don't mention bitcoin amongst accepted e-currency
1564 2011-01-20 16:44:04 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
1565 2011-01-20 16:44:15 <idev> that becuase i need to get bc integrated into the script
1566 2011-01-20 16:44:33 <idev> the stock version does not come with bc integrated
1567 2011-01-20 16:45:28 <idev> password it just show user can enter his account
1568 2011-01-20 16:46:08 <grondilu> so there is a demo login ?
1569 2011-01-20 16:46:12 skeledrew has joined
1570 2011-01-20 16:46:19 <idev> yea 1 sec
1571 2011-01-20 16:46:27 <grondilu> oh indeed
1572 2011-01-20 16:48:11 <idev> login with user: demo pass: demo
1573 2011-01-20 16:50:36 <grondilu> well it has a huge negative balance
1574 2011-01-20 16:52:18 <idev> its just demo figures !
1575 2011-01-20 16:52:54 cosurgi has quit (Quit: leaving)
1576 2011-01-20 16:53:15 <grondilu> yeah but I can't buy anything to try, right ?
1577 2011-01-20 16:54:00 genjix has joined
1578 2011-01-20 16:54:27 btcex has joined
1579 2011-01-20 16:54:34 <grondilu> anyway, your stuff seems fine, but I'd like to see it with a bitcoin integration.
1580 2011-01-20 16:55:30 <idev> yes that what i plan to do
1581 2011-01-20 16:55:45 <idev> as soon as i can find someone to do it
1582 2011-01-20 16:55:55 <idev> as i can't do it my self
1583 2011-01-20 16:56:01 <grondilu> in PHP, I can't help you, sorry.
1584 2011-01-20 16:56:15 <btcex> anyone know what total volume of BTC deposited to mtgox exchange?
1585 2011-01-20 16:56:19 <idev> ah no worries
1586 2011-01-20 16:56:24 <grondilu> but you should have a look at davout's bitcoin-central code.
1587 2011-01-20 16:56:56 <grondilu> hang on : no. davout's code is actually in ruby
1588 2011-01-20 16:57:07 <idev> i can't code my self, only know the basics of html and css
1589 2011-01-20 16:57:19 <idev> php is WAY above me
1590 2011-01-20 16:57:51 <grondilu> I don't get it. Who wrote your site ?
1591 2011-01-20 16:58:24 <idev> some coders called goldcoders
1592 2011-01-20 16:58:36 <idev> http://www.goldcoders.com
1593 2011-01-20 16:58:52 <grondilu> ho
1594 2011-01-20 16:59:46 <btcex> www.goldcoders.com looks like scammers lair
1595 2011-01-20 17:00:07 <idev> they are not actually
1596 2011-01-20 17:00:29 <btcex> HYIP and man in a suit
1597 2011-01-20 17:00:41 <idev> the people who run such hyip programs on the other hand are
1598 2011-01-20 17:01:00 <idev> they are just coders, they don't run any programs
1599 2011-01-20 17:01:11 <btcex> russians are preparing to lynch a creator of HYIP bitcointrade
1600 2011-01-20 17:01:33 <idev> i thought that died already?
1601 2011-01-20 17:01:34 <nanotube> btcex: haha how's that going, have they found him ?
1602 2011-01-20 17:01:37 <btcex> idev: Well ok, I believe
1603 2011-01-20 17:02:45 <btcex> nanotube: yes, https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1070.msg36592#msg36592
1604 2011-01-20 17:03:20 <btcex> nanotube: hi use his real passport details for some payments
1605 2011-01-20 17:03:26 <btcex> used
1606 2011-01-20 17:03:32 <nanotube> btcex: maybe he used a stolen passport?
1607 2011-01-20 17:03:56 <idev> so what happen with this, did anyone make money with them before their scammed?
1608 2011-01-20 17:04:04 <btcex> nanotube: Probably a fake passport, but not just stolen
1609 2011-01-20 17:04:34 <btcex> nanotube: Money he received in the bank with his passport
1610 2011-01-20 17:04:58 lucky has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1611 2011-01-20 17:05:02 <nanotube> mm good luck btcex :)
1612 2011-01-20 17:06:18 <btcex> nanotube: no no, I was trying to dissuade them but they do not listen to me
1613 2011-01-20 17:06:40 <nanotube> ah
1614 2011-01-20 17:06:46 <btcex> nanotube: It's extortion. We have many cases where someone who needs to repay the debt goes to prison for it
1615 2011-01-20 17:06:50 <nanotube> well why not just report theft to the authorities?
1616 2011-01-20 17:07:06 <btcex> nanotube: Bitcoins is not money, yes?
1617 2011-01-20 17:07:31 <btcex> thief did not get stolen money
1618 2011-01-20 17:08:24 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1619 2011-01-20 17:08:34 <btcex> Does anyone following the development of listtransatstions? When it will work? It is very necessary for our new gambling
1620 2011-01-20 17:08:45 <btcex> listtransactions*
1621 2011-01-20 17:08:53 <gavinandresen> I follow it pretty closely
1622 2011-01-20 17:09:02 <btcex> gavinandresen: oh, hi! :)
1623 2011-01-20 17:09:20 <btcex> <idev> so what happen with this, did anyone make money with them before their scammed?
1624 2011-01-20 17:09:21 <btcex> yes
1625 2011-01-20 17:09:32 cosurgi has joined
1626 2011-01-20 17:09:34 <btcex> it was classic HYIP
1627 2011-01-20 17:09:35 <nanotube> btcex: still, you could think of it as data. theft of data is also theft.
1628 2011-01-20 17:10:31 <gavinandresen> RE: listtransactions: I'm going to push fixes to some bugs that only happen if you copy your wallet and use it in multiple places. Otherwise, the version at the git integration repo should work just fine.
1629 2011-01-20 17:10:59 <btcex> nanotube: you kidding?
1630 2011-01-20 17:11:07 <gavinandresen> (oh, and there was also a minor bug where generate blocks weren't being credited to the "" account until 20 blocks after they were mature)
1631 2011-01-20 17:11:48 <btcex> gavinandresen: and listtransactions returns address + txid ?
1632 2011-01-20 17:11:57 <btcex> addresses*
1633 2011-01-20 17:12:16 <gavinandresen> btcex: one sec, let me double-check and make sure...
1634 2011-01-20 17:12:23 noagendamarket has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1635 2011-01-20 17:12:28 <nanotube> btcex: no, just thinking of ways to make it look prosecutable to the authorities.
1636 2011-01-20 17:13:15 <btcex> ok. it need for darts-like gambling. we want to do so did not need to enter the address every time on bidding
1637 2011-01-20 17:13:25 <gavinandresen> btcex: yes, latest listtransactions returns account/address/category/amount/confirmations/txid/time (and comment/comment-to, if you call send with comments)
1638 2011-01-20 17:13:37 <btcex> gavinandresen: great!
1639 2011-01-20 17:13:42 noagendamarket has joined
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1641 2011-01-20 17:14:08 noagendamarket has joined
1642 2011-01-20 17:14:15 * btcex going to clone git repo
1643 2011-01-20 17:15:08 <btcex> part of stolen money he took over a bank payments, it return will be possible.
1644 2011-01-20 17:16:25 <btcex> nanotube: But the theft of information is as theft of the soul for our police. The complainant will be sented to mental hospital :)
1645 2011-01-20 17:17:52 <idev> lol
1646 2011-01-20 17:17:54 <nanotube> btcex: is theft of foreign currency theft? consider bitcoin as foreign currency.
1647 2011-01-20 17:18:56 <btcex> nanotube: no, in our laws clearly defined what is foreign currency
1648 2011-01-20 17:19:11 <sipa> does it matter whether it's a currency or not?
1649 2011-01-20 17:19:16 <sipa> it's theft
1650 2011-01-20 17:19:23 <sipa> maybe not theft of money, but definitely theft
1651 2011-01-20 17:19:25 <gavinandresen> It's probably fraud, not theft.
1652 2011-01-20 17:19:42 <gavinandresen> (but I am Not a Lawyer)
1653 2011-01-20 17:19:45 <btcex> sipa: "so what have been stolen?"
1654 2011-01-20 17:19:52 <sipa> something of value
1655 2011-01-20 17:19:56 <sipa> property
1656 2011-01-20 17:20:29 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1657 2011-01-20 17:20:30 <sipa> hmm, maybe not
1658 2011-01-20 17:20:45 <btcex> gavinandresen: Yes, we are pressed on it, hiding behind some "bit-coins" he had taken money
1659 2011-01-20 17:21:27 <btcex> gavinandresen: but many people gave him bitcoins, not money through a bank.
1660 2011-01-20 17:22:03 <btcex> sipa: remember: copying is not theft!
1661 2011-01-20 17:22:11 <sipa> i know
1662 2011-01-20 17:22:15 <sipa> but it wasn't copying
1663 2011-01-20 17:22:16 <gavinandresen> ... gave him bitcoins in exchange for a promise of future bitcoins. He broke that promise, and that's probably fraud.
1664 2011-01-20 17:22:17 <btcex> as sying copyright fighters
1665 2011-01-20 17:22:20 <Kiba> BCBot: don't get lawyers and the government faggots involved
1666 2011-01-20 17:22:25 <Kiba> err
1667 2011-01-20 17:22:32 <Kiba> don't get government fags involved
1668 2011-01-20 17:22:46 <gavinandresen> How about "government idiots" instead?
1669 2011-01-20 17:23:02 <Kiba> I prefer the more insulting fags instead
1670 2011-01-20 17:23:14 <gavinandresen> You like insulting gay people?
1671 2011-01-20 17:23:27 <Kiba> it's not an insult on gay people
1672 2011-01-20 17:23:48 <EvanR-work> if copying were theft, that would make having children illegal
1673 2011-01-20 17:23:52 <Kiba> it sounds insulting but I guess it's not the best use of an insulting word
1674 2011-01-20 17:23:53 <gavinandresen> Sure it is. You're saying gay people are like government idiots.....
1675 2011-01-20 17:24:09 <Kiba> but I guess I'll concede
1676 2011-01-20 17:24:19 <lfm> Id say that associating gays with government people is an insult to gays
1677 2011-01-20 17:24:56 * Kiba thinks the government ruin anything it touch
1678 2011-01-20 17:25:38 <EvanR-work> at what point does a community become a government?
1679 2011-01-20 17:25:50 <EvanR-work> is there a gray area
1680 2011-01-20 17:25:52 <gavinandresen> when the community has a monopoly on force.
1681 2011-01-20 17:26:06 <EvanR-work> you mean, relative to people outside the community
1682 2011-01-20 17:26:22 <gavinandresen> no, even inside the community.
1683 2011-01-20 17:26:30 <Kiba> gavinandresen: who have power on monopoly?
1684 2011-01-20 17:26:32 <btcex> sipa: <sipa> but it wasn't copying
1685 2011-01-20 17:26:33 <EvanR-work> how does the entire community have a monpoly on force on itself
1686 2011-01-20 17:26:38 <btcex> what is it?
1687 2011-01-20 17:26:48 <gavinandresen> A private, gated community where they can kick you out if you paint your house the wrong color is a small government.
1688 2011-01-20 17:26:58 <Kiba> EvanR-work: when the community enforce its law through DDOS, I'll consider it a monopoly
1689 2011-01-20 17:26:58 <btcex> The service which he promised to but did not do?
1690 2011-01-20 17:27:07 <EvanR-work> then its not the community thats the government, its a subset of the community
1691 2011-01-20 17:27:10 <sipa> btcex: probably that, and that isn't theft maybe
1692 2011-01-20 17:27:16 <sipa> but fraud like gavinandresen says
1693 2011-01-20 17:27:48 <btcex> sipa: Require expensive experts to prove it. The flip side of anonymity and decentralized.
1694 2011-01-20 17:28:01 <gavinandresen> I think governments are a great idea, we just have too few of them and we don't have the freedom to leave them when we want to.
1695 2011-01-20 17:28:18 <Kiba> gavinandresen: 200 nations
1696 2011-01-20 17:28:23 <Kiba> but they're not much better
1697 2011-01-20 17:28:23 <sipa> sure you do, you can move to another country :)
1698 2011-01-20 17:28:33 <Kiba> only 200 countries to move to
1699 2011-01-20 17:28:38 <Kiba> and countries don't like immigrants
1700 2011-01-20 17:28:50 <btcex> sipa: fraud for real money in bank, but the great part of the money he took as bitcoins
1701 2011-01-20 17:28:56 <Kiba> 200 countries for 6 billion human beings
1702 2011-01-20 17:29:00 <Kiba> that's not a lot of countries
1703 2011-01-20 17:30:15 <btcex> gavinandresen: Russia has. I have studied this question when wanted to avoid army
1704 2011-01-20 17:31:03 <gavinandresen> Hmmm.... if only we had an international electronic currency that made it easy to trade across borders so governments couldn't hold our money hostage if we wanted to leave.....
1705 2011-01-20 17:31:16 <Kiba> bitcoin?
1706 2011-01-20 17:31:25 <sipa> nah, laready exists
1707 2011-01-20 17:31:29 <sipa> we need something more original
1708 2011-01-20 17:31:47 <Kiba> hyperspace gold!
1709 2011-01-20 17:32:04 <Kiba> you can store goal in your personal dimension, only accessble by you!
1710 2011-01-20 17:32:11 <Kiba> s/goal/gold
1711 2011-01-20 17:32:22 <gavinandresen> Now THAT's a good idea, Kiba. An interdimensional wallet.
1712 2011-01-20 17:32:23 <btcex> Protect freedom, American citizens! It is like air - until the spoiled, small number of citizens who feeling it.
1713 2011-01-20 17:33:46 * btcex witty
1714 2011-01-20 17:34:46 <Kiba> the past is information!
1715 2011-01-20 17:34:52 <Kiba> the future is now!
1716 2011-01-20 17:38:11 <newsham> "until the spoiled, small number of citizens who feeling it"? wtf?
1717 2011-01-20 17:38:37 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1718 2011-01-20 17:39:37 <btcex> newsham: mmm may be farted? I do not know the meaning of some words
1719 2011-01-20 17:40:22 <Kiba> the future will b e farted!
1720 2011-01-20 17:40:32 <newsham> kiba: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/80868
1721 2011-01-20 17:41:10 <mrb_> 03:59 < dsg> No, it should use LC_NUMERIC like POSIX says, damnit.
1722 2011-01-20 17:41:46 <mrb_> I am going to tell you what it should do: only accept round tonal bitcoin units :)
1723 2011-01-20 17:43:49 <btcex> gavinandresen: By the way, was talk on the forum about rounding for too precise values. In programming of accounting their must be trunced, not rounded
1724 2011-01-20 17:44:12 <btcex> At least in that book that I read recommended to do so
1725 2011-01-20 17:44:12 lappie_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1726 2011-01-20 17:44:22 WellMux_ has joined
1727 2011-01-20 17:44:22 <gavinandresen> btcex: there's an open bug about that.
1728 2011-01-20 17:44:25 <btcex> truncated
1729 2011-01-20 17:44:39 WellMux_ has left ("Ex-Chat")
1730 2011-01-20 17:45:05 <btcex> gavinandresen: yes, I remember that seen recently discussion about it but not remember where :)
1731 2011-01-20 17:45:50 <btcex> It is important to prevent the emergence of money out of nothing. Rounding may give such an opportunity.
1732 2011-01-20 17:46:03 <gavinandresen> Handling sub-cent transactions properly needs a little more thinking. if you have 50.001 bitcoins, you should be able to send 50.001 bitcoins.
1733 2011-01-20 17:46:32 <gavinandresen> btcex: money out of nothing cannot happen; everything is converted to int64's internally.
1734 2011-01-20 17:46:36 <btcex> gavinandresen: no if we declare what BTC has 0.01 minimal amount
1735 2011-01-20 17:47:05 <gavinandresen> I didn't say if you have 50 bitcoins you should be able to send 0.001 bitcoins.
1736 2011-01-20 17:47:32 <newsham> does bitcoin use floating point for quantities of bitcoins?
1737 2011-01-20 17:47:36 <newsham> if so, seems like a bad choice.
1738 2011-01-20 17:47:47 <gavinandresen> No, internally it is all 64-bit integers.
1739 2011-01-20 17:47:53 <btcex> gavinandresen: Yes but if 0.008 rounded to 0.01 whan application layer (DB or PHP) may think that it is 0.01 BTC
1740 2011-01-20 17:47:59 <newsham> so how is rounding going to create money?
1741 2011-01-20 17:48:13 <gavinandresen> It is only the GUI and RPC interface that put a decimal point in the integers, so they're user-friendly.
1742 2011-01-20 17:48:17 <newsham> an application might try to round and create money, but a transaction that isnt balanced will be rejected, no?
1743 2011-01-20 17:48:28 <sipa> of course
1744 2011-01-20 17:48:49 <newsham> so i dont see what the issue is
1745 2011-01-20 17:49:01 <btcex> newsham: we are just about the interface, everything inside the app is ok with this
1746 2011-01-20 17:49:26 <newsham> ah
1747 2011-01-20 17:50:11 rlifchitz has quit (Quit: "I never worry about action, but only about inaction" (W. Churchill))
1748 2011-01-20 17:50:17 <btcex> newsham: you receive 0.008 BTC, getinfo shows you what you receive 0.01 BTC and we have 0.002 BTC from nothing in your DB
1749 2011-01-20 17:50:24 <btcex> (not in BTC network)
1750 2011-01-20 17:51:05 <gavinandresen> btcex: getinfo RPC doesn't round: balance" : 2750.75000000
1751 2011-01-20 17:51:05 <sipa> getinfo doesn't round
1752 2011-01-20 17:51:29 <gavinandresen> (your JSON library might be rounding for you....)
1753 2011-01-20 17:51:34 <gavinandresen> (but we can't control that)
1754 2011-01-20 17:51:44 luke-jr has joined
1755 2011-01-20 17:52:18 <btcex> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues#issue/18 I found it! Yes, its about sending only
1756 2011-01-20 17:53:25 rlifchitz has joined
1757 2011-01-20 17:53:25 rlifchitz has quit (Changing host)
1758 2011-01-20 17:53:25 rlifchitz has joined
1759 2011-01-20 17:53:40 <Diablo-D3> man
1760 2011-01-20 17:53:42 <Diablo-D3> where slush
1761 2011-01-20 17:54:40 appamatto has left ("bitcoin-dev")
1762 2011-01-20 17:56:02 <gavinandresen> Probably the right thing to do is NOT round amounts when sending... so you could send 50.001. Or send 0.001 if you're willing to pay the txfee. Which brings up another issue (there aught to be a way to tell the RPC "fail if this send would generate a txfee", or maybe "if txfee would be greater than <amount>")
1763 2011-01-20 17:56:11 <cosurgi> is there a problem if several miners are using the same wallet?
1764 2011-01-20 17:56:45 * cosurgi wants to copy `dd` whole drive from one coputer to another, to skip installing and configuring linux ans fglrx.
1765 2011-01-20 17:57:15 <cosurgi> but then both miners will be working using exactly the same ~/.bitcoin directory.
1766 2011-01-20 17:57:33 * Kiba says MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
1767 2011-01-20 17:57:34 <cosurgi> in fact 'dd' is running right now.
1768 2011-01-20 17:57:37 <gavinandresen> cosurgi: probably a bad idea. Move the wallet.dat out of the way before copying
1769 2011-01-20 17:57:45 lucky has joined
1770 2011-01-20 17:57:48 <gavinandresen> (or delete it from all but one of the miners after copying)
1771 2011-01-20 17:58:01 <cosurgi> but what wrong can happen?
1772 2011-01-20 17:58:54 <cosurgi> if one miner finds a block, then the same 50 BTC appears in both of them. Is there a race condition or something else can go wrong?
1773 2011-01-20 17:58:58 <gavinandresen> If you generate two blocks with identical coinbase transactions, you'll only be able to spend the first.
1774 2011-01-20 17:59:25 <gavinandresen> ... and the client assumes that coinbase transactions are different because they use different private keys....
1775 2011-01-20 17:59:59 <cosurgi> hmm. I'm not sure. Each individual miner has a different merkleroot.
1776 2011-01-20 18:00:02 <Diablo-D3> so the client needs to delete private keys from the coinbased based on public key
1777 2011-01-20 18:00:09 <Diablo-D3> and not stop at 1
1778 2011-01-20 18:00:23 <gavinandresen> It's duplicate transaction ids that cause problems
1779 2011-01-20 18:00:37 <gavinandresen> (merkle root isn't part of the transaction id hash)
1780 2011-01-20 18:00:41 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: which shouldnt happen
1781 2011-01-20 18:00:58 <btcex> what difference between aptitude install -t testing xxx and aptitude install xxx/testing ?
1782 2011-01-20 18:01:00 <cosurgi> ok.... so after 'dd' finished, deleting one of those wallet.dat is enough?
1783 2011-01-20 18:01:35 <Diablo-D3> btcex: aptitude is dead, please use apt-get instead
1784 2011-01-20 18:01:37 <gavinandresen> cosurgi: sure. bitcoin will recreate a fresh wallet on startup on the other machine.
1785 2011-01-20 18:01:37 <btcex> cosurgi: dd?
1786 2011-01-20 18:01:44 <btcex> Diablo-D3: hm?
1787 2011-01-20 18:01:47 <btcex> Diablo-D3: proof?
1788 2011-01-20 18:01:58 <cosurgi> it's 'dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/sdb1 bs=8MiB'
1789 2011-01-20 18:01:58 <Diablo-D3> debian no longer seriously maintains it.
1790 2011-01-20 18:02:04 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dont do that.
1791 2011-01-20 18:02:08 <btcex> Diablo-D3: why?
1792 2011-01-20 18:02:13 <Diablo-D3> unless you need an exact copy of the file system as is, dont
1793 2011-01-20 18:02:20 <Diablo-D3> create a new file system and then use the magic rsync command
1794 2011-01-20 18:02:26 <btcex> Diablo-D3: I thing what apt-get is old soft like aptitude
1795 2011-01-20 18:02:31 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1796 2011-01-20 18:02:35 <Diablo-D3> rsync -avHxAX /old /new
1797 2011-01-20 18:02:44 <Diablo-D3> btcex: its very old, but its also actively maintained
1798 2011-01-20 18:02:46 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I was worried that it wouldn't boot, so I used dd.
1799 2011-01-20 18:02:50 <sipa> both approaches have advantages
1800 2011-01-20 18:02:55 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dd will copy even file system errors
1801 2011-01-20 18:03:03 <Diablo-D3> you only need it if you need an EXACT copy of the file system itself
1802 2011-01-20 18:03:04 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I mean - that maybe I would need to chroot into new system, and reinstall grub.
1803 2011-01-20 18:03:05 <Diablo-D3> not just the files
1804 2011-01-20 18:03:17 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you dont if you switch the drives back
1805 2011-01-20 18:03:19 <Diablo-D3> also
1806 2011-01-20 18:03:22 <Diablo-D3> you need to do this on a different media
1807 2011-01-20 18:03:23 <luke-jr> FWIW, this Sandy Bridge IGP outperforms my Radeon
1808 2011-01-20 18:03:28 <luke-jr> by far
1809 2011-01-20 18:03:29 <Diablo-D3> you CANNOT dd nor rsync a live file system
1810 2011-01-20 18:03:33 AAA_awright has joined
1811 2011-01-20 18:03:34 <Diablo-D3> er, a live booted one
1812 2011-01-20 18:03:39 <sipa> xfs_freeze to the rescue
1813 2011-01-20 18:03:41 <Diablo-D3> dd cant do live at all, rsync requires it not to be /
1814 2011-01-20 18:03:57 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: not exaclt
1815 2011-01-20 18:04:06 <Diablo-D3> so, pop in a livecd, then rsync the two with the above command
1816 2011-01-20 18:04:12 <luke-jr> mkdir /mnt/root && mount --bind / /mnt/root
1817 2011-01-20 18:04:27 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I did Alt-sysrq-s (sync) + alt-sysrq-u (remounting readonly), and now I'm dd-ing on a "live" (but ro) filesystem.
1818 2011-01-20 18:04:29 <Diablo-D3> the debian install on my box is about 8 years old
1819 2011-01-20 18:04:35 <newsham> are you just trying to run two bitcoin programs with the same config data?
1820 2011-01-20 18:04:35 <Diablo-D3> its survived 3 drives, and keeps doing.
1821 2011-01-20 18:04:38 <Diablo-D3> er, going
1822 2011-01-20 18:04:39 <luke-jr> then rsync /mnt/root :p
1823 2011-01-20 18:04:49 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: nope, you shouldnt do that.
1824 2011-01-20 18:04:56 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: kernel cant be trusted to do that right
1825 2011-01-20 18:04:58 <sipa> there's no problem dd'ing a ro mounted filesystem
1826 2011-01-20 18:05:02 <newsham> if so, mkdir ~/althome; cp -ax ~/.bitcion ~/althome; HOME=~/althome bitcoin
1827 2011-01-20 18:05:07 <newsham> no need to dup your whole system
1828 2011-01-20 18:05:12 <Diablo-D3> sipa: not if it force read onlyied
1829 2011-01-20 18:05:13 <luke-jr> there's no problem rsyncing a rw mounted fs :p
1830 2011-01-20 18:05:24 <Diablo-D3> he could be dding a potentially damaged file system
1831 2011-01-20 18:05:36 <Diablo-D3> with files still open that cant close without losing data
1832 2011-01-20 18:05:37 <cosurgi> Hmm, too late - finished. I'll boot that and let you know :)
1833 2011-01-20 18:05:55 <Diablo-D3> only alt-sysrq s, u, b in an emergency
1834 2011-01-20 18:05:59 <cosurgi> yes, I know that it can contain error. I've run fsck beforehand.
1835 2011-01-20 18:06:12 <cosurgi> and resize2fs too.
1836 2011-01-20 18:06:15 <Diablo-D3> Im apparently the only actual sys admin in this channel
1837 2011-01-20 18:06:27 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: what's wrong with my rsync solution?
1838 2011-01-20 18:06:32 <btcex> Diablo-D3: may be you saying about Ubuntu?
1839 2011-01-20 18:06:43 <Diablo-D3> btcex: no one cares what ubuntu says or does
1840 2011-01-20 18:06:45 <Diablo-D3> real men run debian
1841 2011-01-20 18:06:53 <cosurgi> yes, I was pondering rsync, I joust thought that dd will be easier.
1842 2011-01-20 18:06:57 * cosurgi runs debian ;)
1843 2011-01-20 18:06:59 <btcex> Diablo-D3: and you sure what debianers choose apt-get?
1844 2011-01-20 18:07:01 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dd WILL copy broken file systems
1845 2011-01-20 18:07:05 <sipa> of course
1846 2011-01-20 18:07:09 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: which is not what you want
1847 2011-01-20 18:07:10 <newsham> dd will copy unbroken file systems too
1848 2011-01-20 18:07:13 <Diablo-D3> btcex: yes.
1849 2011-01-20 18:07:13 <sipa> but if your filesystem is ok, dd will copy it too
1850 2011-01-20 18:07:14 <newsham> and fsck is your friend
1851 2011-01-20 18:07:17 <sipa> and it will remain ok
1852 2011-01-20 18:07:22 <newsham> and i could care less if diablo is a sysadmin
1853 2011-01-20 18:07:30 <Diablo-D3> rsync is superior because you can actually upgrade file systems through the ages
1854 2011-01-20 18:07:35 <newsham> especially a sysadmin that runs debian
1855 2011-01-20 18:07:35 <cosurgi> let me boot this, ok? :)
1856 2011-01-20 18:07:37 <Diablo-D3> otherwise I'd be stuck on ext2 with tiny inodes
1857 2011-01-20 18:07:41 <sipa> cosurgi: just boot, it'll work
1858 2011-01-20 18:07:43 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: then go do it
1859 2011-01-20 18:07:46 <Diablo-D3> it'll probably work
1860 2011-01-20 18:11:41 <devon_hillard> It's amazing that bitcoin have several good GPU implementations, while other sorts of distributed computing projects barely got their CUDA clients in beta
1861 2011-01-20 18:11:48 <devon_hillard> others, like BOINC or folding@home
1862 2011-01-20 18:12:16 <sipa> maybe because people make money with it :)
1863 2011-01-20 18:12:24 <noagendamarket> heh
1864 2011-01-20 18:12:32 <noagendamarket> thats a powerful motivator
1865 2011-01-20 18:12:55 <devon_hillard> folding@home or BOINC should just move to GPU and give up on CPU power
1866 2011-01-20 18:13:00 <cosurgi> it booted, but fglrx isn't recognizing my two ATI 5850 cards.
1867 2011-01-20 18:13:09 <cosurgi> I'm rebooting with /forcefsck
1868 2011-01-20 18:13:17 <devon_hillard> 20-30x performance improvement and it gets better with each new generation
1869 2011-01-20 18:13:25 omglolbbq has joined
1870 2011-01-20 18:13:38 <omglolbbq> im getting an error starting bitcoin:
1871 2011-01-20 18:14:15 <omglolbbq> "EXCEPTION: 11DbException. Db::put: Operation not permitted. C:\bitcoin\bitcoin.exe in ProcessMessage()"
1872 2011-01-20 18:14:30 <cosurgi> hmm... do I need to reinstall fglrx ? The card in onther computer is ATI 5830
1873 2011-01-20 18:14:38 <cosurgi> so that's a really little difference.
1874 2011-01-20 18:14:45 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1875 2011-01-20 18:15:02 <sipa> cosurgi: you need an xorg.conf file which lists both cards
1876 2011-01-20 18:15:17 <cosurgi> oh, maybe.
1877 2011-01-20 18:15:25 <sipa> aticonfig --initial --adapter=all
1878 2011-01-20 18:15:30 <sipa> to create one :)
1879 2011-01-20 18:15:34 <cosurgi> thanks
1880 2011-01-20 18:15:56 <sipa> and then start a miner on each, one with DISPLAY=:0.0, and one with DISPLAY=:0.1 on the other
1881 2011-01-20 18:16:38 <cosurgi> aha! Thanks. I thought that DiabloMiner will recognize both of those cards. But I - must run two miners?
1882 2011-01-20 18:17:29 <sipa> not sure, but that's how i do it
1883 2011-01-20 18:20:00 <nanotube> sipa: so... what do you use for network hash rate estimation? i recall something about a gaussian average ?
1884 2011-01-20 18:20:26 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rc9f70b3 / (9 files): Merge branch 'integration' into FIXES - http://bit.ly/hTrAu9
1885 2011-01-20 18:20:30 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r1d23c74 / (main.cpp main.h rpc.cpp): (log message trimmed)
1886 2011-01-20 18:20:30 <CIA-106> bitcoin: ReacceptWalletTransactions bugfix
1887 2011-01-20 18:20:30 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Fix two bugs that can happen if you copy your wallet to another machine
1888 2011-01-20 18:20:30 <CIA-106> bitcoin: and perform transactions on both.
1889 2011-01-20 18:20:30 <CIA-106> bitcoin: First, ReacceptWalletTransactions would notice if the other wallet spent coins, and
1890 2011-01-20 18:20:30 <CIA-106> bitcoin: would correctly mark the receiving transaction spent. However, it did not add the spending
1891 2011-01-20 18:20:31 <CIA-106> bitcoin: transaction to the wallet. Now it does.
1892 2011-01-20 18:20:33 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rd9574c2 / (init.cpp main.cpp rpc.cpp):
1893 2011-01-20 18:20:34 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Reconcile getbalance and listaccounts 0 in the shared-wallet case
1894 2011-01-20 18:20:34 <CIA-106> bitcoin: If you copied your wallet and used it on two different machines, the balance
1895 2011-01-20 18:20:34 <CIA-106> bitcoin: reported by getbalance and the sum(listaccounts) could disagree, because you
1896 2011-01-20 18:20:34 <CIA-106> bitcoin: might receive payments for an address that is in your wallet but not your
1897 2011-01-20 18:20:34 <CIA-106> bitcoin: address book. Now all such transactions are credited to the default
1898 2011-01-20 18:20:34 <CIA-106> bitcoin: empty-string account. - http://bit.ly/gIX937
1899 2011-01-20 18:20:53 <nanotube> woo, cia :)
1900 2011-01-20 18:21:15 <sipa> nanotube: for the graphs it's estimating rate and growth factor within moving gaussian windows, and combining those
1901 2011-01-20 18:22:19 <omglolbbq> it seems the crash is caused by my wallet
1902 2011-01-20 18:22:20 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: do I have to run two instances of your miner? One for each card?
1903 2011-01-20 18:22:29 <omglolbbq> if i rename wallet it creates new one and wworks fine
1904 2011-01-20 18:22:35 <omglolbbq> if i put it back, it crashes again
1905 2011-01-20 18:22:42 <cosurgi> I just did export DISPLAY=:0
1906 2011-01-20 18:22:48 <cosurgi> ./DiabloMiner-Linux.sh --user=....
1907 2011-01-20 18:22:55 <cosurgi> and it uses one card.
1908 2011-01-20 18:23:01 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: no
1909 2011-01-20 18:23:06 <Diablo-D3> just one.
1910 2011-01-20 18:23:10 <Diablo-D3> what are your cards?
1911 2011-01-20 18:23:19 <cosurgi> two 5850
1912 2011-01-20 18:23:33 <nanotube> sipa: interesting. is that more accurate than just using a linear window?
1913 2011-01-20 18:23:42 <sipa> nanotube: no, but more smooth :)
1914 2011-01-20 18:23:48 <cosurgi> maybe I need to configure xorg with xinerama or something, to enable both cards?
1915 2011-01-20 18:23:55 <sipa> and much easier (formula-wise) to estime growth
1916 2011-01-20 18:24:00 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: no, you probably forgot to turn crossfire off
1917 2011-01-20 18:24:09 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: what does it say for mhash atm?
1918 2011-01-20 18:24:15 <cosurgi> ok. How do I do that?
1919 2011-01-20 18:24:16 <cosurgi> 255132 khash/sec
1920 2011-01-20 18:24:19 <nanotube> sipa: have a linky to your graph? and maybe your math too? :)
1921 2011-01-20 18:24:24 <cosurgi> [20.01.11 19:17:15] Added Cypress (#1) (18 CU, local work size of 256)
1922 2011-01-20 18:24:25 <cosurgi> 254809 khash/sec
1923 2011-01-20 18:24:38 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: wow, nice.... however, you need to turn corssifre off.
1924 2011-01-20 18:24:43 <cosurgi> I didn't connect those cards for crossfire.
1925 2011-01-20 18:24:45 jav has joined
1926 2011-01-20 18:24:47 <Diablo-D3> you dont need it
1927 2011-01-20 18:24:49 <sipa> nanotube: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/speed.pdf
1928 2011-01-20 18:24:50 <Diablo-D3> the connection does nothing
1929 2011-01-20 18:24:52 <Diablo-D3> this isnt nvidia
1930 2011-01-20 18:24:54 <sipa> it's a bit outdated
1931 2011-01-20 18:25:00 <cosurgi> that is some aticonfig option? Which one? To turn off crossfire
1932 2011-01-20 18:25:03 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: also, you're using sdk 2.1 arent you?
1933 2011-01-20 18:25:07 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: er, I forget, ask ArtForz
1934 2011-01-20 18:25:24 <cosurgi> let me check... but porbbaly yes
1935 2011-01-20 18:25:56 <sipa> nanotube: the problem with gaussians is that it's infinite in both directions, which means it's inaccurate/wrong near the end of the data
1936 2011-01-20 18:26:03 <cosurgi> yes, I'm using 2.1
1937 2011-01-20 18:26:11 <btcex> No candidate version found for libboost1.37-dev
1938 2011-01-20 18:26:13 <btcex> hmm
1939 2011-01-20 18:26:41 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you need to have Xorg.conf configured to disable crossfire and list both cards
1940 2011-01-20 18:26:49 <Diablo-D3> but I forget the command to make ati-config do it
1941 2011-01-20 18:26:54 <Diablo-D3> someone needs to add that to the wiki
1942 2011-01-20 18:26:55 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
1943 2011-01-20 18:27:07 <sipa> nanotube: so i derived the formula for an exponential window (which is only one-sided), but haven't implemented a graph-creator for that yet
1944 2011-01-20 18:27:22 <cosurgi> ok. I'll look at aticonfig options
1945 2011-01-20 18:27:27 dukeleto has joined
1946 2011-01-20 18:27:41 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: btw, try toying with -w 64 later
1947 2011-01-20 18:27:51 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you're already exceeding the speed of what a 5850 should do
1948 2011-01-20 18:28:08 <Diablo-D3> they do about 240
1949 2011-01-20 18:28:18 <nanotube> sipa: mm ic. :)
1950 2011-01-20 18:28:21 <sipa> Diablo-D3: if i run only one miner on my 5970, it get 270MH/s, a second one with DISPLAY=:0.1 gets another 270MH/s
1951 2011-01-20 18:28:26 <sipa> with your miner
1952 2011-01-20 18:28:44 <cosurgi> $ aticonfig --list-adapters
1953 2011-01-20 18:28:44 <cosurgi> * 0. 03:00.0 ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series 1. 02:00.0 ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
1954 2011-01-20 18:28:49 <cosurgi> 1. 02:00.0 ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
1955 2011-01-20 18:28:56 <Diablo-D3> sipa: your xorg.conf is done wrong
1956 2011-01-20 18:29:15 <sipa> hmm, i'll look at it later
1957 2011-01-20 18:29:22 <Diablo-D3> sipa: wait
1958 2011-01-20 18:29:28 <Diablo-D3> are you specifically disabling it?
1959 2011-01-20 18:29:29 <Diablo-D3> you are
1960 2011-01-20 18:29:40 <Diablo-D3> a 5970 is ~535 total
1961 2011-01-20 18:29:48 <cosurgi> hmm...
1962 2011-01-20 18:29:52 <Diablo-D3> yours is 540 or so
1963 2011-01-20 18:29:56 <Diablo-D3> so that sounds about right
1964 2011-01-20 18:30:06 <cosurgi> I can't talk with --adapter=0
1965 2011-01-20 18:30:14 <cosurgi> ~$ aticonfig --adapter=all --odgt
1966 2011-01-20 18:30:14 <cosurgi> ERROR - Get temperature failed for Adapter 0 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
1967 2011-01-20 18:30:14 <cosurgi> Adapter 1 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 80.50 C
1968 2011-01-20 18:30:20 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: no, your xorg.conf is configured wrong.
1969 2011-01-20 18:30:26 <Diablo-D3> aticonfig cant access uninitalized cards
1970 2011-01-20 18:30:27 <cosurgi> ok.
1971 2011-01-20 18:30:30 <Diablo-D3> neither can anything else
1972 2011-01-20 18:30:38 <cosurgi> I see.
1973 2011-01-20 18:30:47 <sipa> Diablo-D3: the xorg.conf (generated by aticonfig --initial --adapter=all) contains 2 screen sections
1974 2011-01-20 18:31:11 <Diablo-D3> I think its aticonfig --adapter=all --inital
1975 2011-01-20 18:31:15 <Diablo-D3> hee
1976 2011-01-20 18:31:20 <Diablo-D3> sipa: yeah but cosurgi never did that
1977 2011-01-20 18:31:31 <Diablo-D3> sipa: DISPLAY=:0 runs normally, right?
1978 2011-01-20 18:31:35 <cosurgi> I did that.
1979 2011-01-20 18:31:37 <btcex> can I build bitcoin without wxwidgets?
1980 2011-01-20 18:31:43 <cosurgi> 19:10 < sipa> aticonfig --initial --adapter=all
1981 2011-01-20 18:31:48 <sipa> DISPLAY=:0 is identical to DISPLAY=:0.1
1982 2011-01-20 18:31:48 <cosurgi> that's what I did.
1983 2011-01-20 18:31:49 <sipa> eh
1984 2011-01-20 18:31:49 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: and your xorg.conf contains two display sections?
1985 2011-01-20 18:31:50 <sipa> DISPLAY=:0 is identical to DISPLAY=:0.0
1986 2011-01-20 18:31:57 <Diablo-D3> sipa: no its not
1987 2011-01-20 18:32:04 <Diablo-D3> :0 is identical to :0.*
1988 2011-01-20 18:32:07 <sipa> hmmm
1989 2011-01-20 18:32:10 <Diablo-D3> as in, all screens
1990 2011-01-20 18:32:19 <Diablo-D3> :0.x is notation for a specific subscreen
1991 2011-01-20 18:32:47 <nanotube> btcex: yes, build bitcoind.
1992 2011-01-20 18:32:51 <Diablo-D3> which leads to hilarity when you have multiheaded cards and each monitor is an independent screen
1993 2011-01-20 18:32:53 <cosurgi> ok. this is strange. I have three of those sections.
1994 2011-01-20 18:33:02 <nanotube> btcex: which is the gui-less version.
1995 2011-01-20 18:33:05 <cosurgi> And three Device sections.
1996 2011-01-20 18:33:08 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: move your Xorg.conf to Xorg.conf.bak
1997 2011-01-20 18:33:10 <Diablo-D3> and run it again
1998 2011-01-20 18:33:14 <sipa> Diablo-D3: i know that, but using :0 or :0.0 gives the same speed
1999 2011-01-20 18:33:20 * cosurgi checks if this mobo has some builtin radeoin card.
2000 2011-01-20 18:33:28 <Diablo-D3> wait that command is incomplete
2001 2011-01-20 18:33:36 <sipa> but i'll try it again later
2002 2011-01-20 18:33:47 <Diablo-D3> aticonfig --initial --adapter=all --cf=off
2003 2011-01-20 18:34:17 <btcex> src tree has a list of packages that need to be installed for building but I do not see any commands that need to build
2004 2011-01-20 18:34:18 <sipa> ah
2005 2011-01-20 18:34:26 <Diablo-D3> I think thats right
2006 2011-01-20 18:34:29 <Diablo-D3> I hope
2007 2011-01-20 18:34:33 <cosurgi> OK. I'm doing this
2008 2011-01-20 18:34:37 <Diablo-D3> wheres ArtForz when you need him
2009 2011-01-20 18:34:37 <sipa> cosurgi: maybe a built-in gpu as well?
2010 2011-01-20 18:34:42 <sipa> on your motherboard?
2011 2011-01-20 18:34:50 <btcex> nanotube: what abount CLI for bitcoind commands?
2012 2011-01-20 18:34:57 genjix has joined
2013 2011-01-20 18:34:59 <btcex> it need wxwidgets for building?
2014 2011-01-20 18:35:09 <btcex> CLI interface
2015 2011-01-20 18:35:12 genjix has quit (Changing host)
2016 2011-01-20 18:35:13 genjix has joined
2017 2011-01-20 18:35:17 <genjix> no
2018 2011-01-20 18:35:22 <genjix> just boost and a few other things
2019 2011-01-20 18:35:27 <genjix> (in ubuntu repos)
2020 2011-01-20 18:35:43 <btcex> heh
2021 2011-01-20 18:35:55 <btcex> i try to use old cli command interface
2022 2011-01-20 18:35:57 <btcex> 0.3.19
2023 2011-01-20 18:36:15 <genjix> nanotube: yo
2024 2011-01-20 18:36:16 <btcex> genjix: what command need to build? cmake && make ?
2025 2011-01-20 18:36:25 <cosurgi> hmm, strange. If I delete xorg.conf then aticonfig does not make a new one.
2026 2011-01-20 18:36:26 <genjix> btcex: just make should be fine
2027 2011-01-20 18:36:32 <genjix> then it will error that you need X
2028 2011-01-20 18:36:40 <genjix> so go into ubuntu and install X
2029 2011-01-20 18:36:41 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: well, you wernt supposed to delete it, just rename it
2030 2011-01-20 18:36:47 <genjix> run make, it will say you need Y
2031 2011-01-20 18:36:48 <btcex> make
2032 2011-01-20 18:36:49 <btcex> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
2033 2011-01-20 18:36:53 <genjix> repeat above... until it works
2034 2011-01-20 18:36:56 <cosurgi> yeah, I renamed.
2035 2011-01-20 18:37:04 <cosurgi> but it doesn't make a new one.
2036 2011-01-20 18:37:13 idev has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2037 2011-01-20 18:37:19 <genjix> btcex: oh make -f makefile.unix
2038 2011-01-20 18:37:25 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: weird
2039 2011-01-20 18:37:27 <Diablo-D3> wonder why
2040 2011-01-20 18:37:31 <cosurgi> min1:/etc/X11# ls -la xorg.conf
2041 2011-01-20 18:37:32 <cosurgi> ls: cannot access xorg.conf: No such file or directory
2042 2011-01-20 18:37:39 <cosurgi> min1:/etc/X11# aticonfig --initial --adapter=all --cf=off
2043 2011-01-20 18:37:39 <cosurgi> Uninitialised file found, configuring.
2044 2011-01-20 18:37:39 <cosurgi> No CrossFire chains defined
2045 2011-01-20 18:37:42 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: cp your xorg.conf and then delete the monitors and display devices out
2046 2011-01-20 18:37:43 <cosurgi> min1:/etc/X11# ls -la xorg.conf
2047 2011-01-20 18:37:43 <cosurgi> ls: cannot access xorg.conf: No such file or directory
2048 2011-01-20 18:37:49 <cosurgi> ok.
2049 2011-01-20 18:38:02 <btcex> genjix: how I can build only bitcoind?
2050 2011-01-20 18:38:08 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2051 2011-01-20 18:38:09 <Diablo-D3> I wonder where ArtForz is
2052 2011-01-20 18:38:12 <Diablo-D3> he knows all this shit
2053 2011-01-20 18:38:12 <genjix> makefile -f makefile.unix bitcoind
2054 2011-01-20 18:38:16 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2055 2011-01-20 18:38:18 <Diablo-D3> he needs to make a wiki page out of it
2056 2011-01-20 18:38:22 <genjix> that's what I use (sorry forgot bitcoind part ;)
2057 2011-01-20 18:38:23 <btcex> make -f makefile.unix prints thousand errors about wxwidgets
2058 2011-01-20 18:38:32 ineedmoney has joined
2059 2011-01-20 18:38:34 <genjix> makefile -f makefile.unix bitcoind
2060 2011-01-20 18:38:36 <Diablo-D3> make -f makefile.unix bitcoind builds bitcoind only
2061 2011-01-20 18:38:55 <genjix> anybody have nanotube's email addy?
2062 2011-01-20 18:39:31 <cosurgi> ok. I'll figure this out
2063 2011-01-20 18:39:45 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: just ask ArtForz
2064 2011-01-20 18:39:49 * Diablo-D3 gives up
2065 2011-01-20 18:40:21 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you have it working when my app says above 480
2066 2011-01-20 18:40:24 <btcex> genjix: Diablo-D3 it needs to be in readme
2067 2011-01-20 18:40:41 <genjix> btcex: submit a patch then!
2068 2011-01-20 18:40:44 <genjix> :)
2069 2011-01-20 18:40:57 <btcex> genjix: first I am test theese commans
2070 2011-01-20 18:41:06 <btcex> serious, what if it wrong?
2071 2011-01-20 18:41:13 <btcex> make: *** [bitcoind] Error 1
2072 2011-01-20 18:41:16 <btcex> carramba
2073 2011-01-20 18:41:25 <genjix> what's the lines above say?
2074 2011-01-20 18:41:28 <btcex> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
2075 2011-01-20 18:41:33 <sipa> nanotube: the formule is derived here, by the way: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/estim_exp_math.txt
2076 2011-01-20 18:41:46 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min1:~$ aticonfig --adapter=all --odgt
2077 2011-01-20 18:41:46 <cosurgi> Adapter 0 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 63.00 C
2078 2011-01-20 18:41:46 <cosurgi> Adapter 1 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 58.50 C
2079 2011-01-20 18:41:49 <genjix> install libboost-system-dev in ubuntu
2080 2011-01-20 18:41:51 <sipa> but it lacks some explanation, and applying it in reality is a bit harder still
2081 2011-01-20 18:41:53 <cosurgi> aticonfig now can access both. good....
2082 2011-01-20 18:41:59 <cosurgi> now "waiting...."
2083 2011-01-20 18:42:05 <cosurgi> aha!
2084 2011-01-20 18:42:09 <cosurgi> [20.01.11 19:37:13] Added Cypress (#1) (18 CU, local work size of 256)
2085 2011-01-20 18:42:09 <cosurgi> [20.01.11 19:37:21] Added Cypress (#2) (18 CU, local work size of 256)
2086 2011-01-20 18:42:35 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: 542132 khash/sec
2087 2011-01-20 18:42:35 <cosurgi> !!!
2088 2011-01-20 18:42:41 <genjix> btcex: keep installing the packagaes it complains about until it compiles without error.
2089 2011-01-20 18:43:05 <cosurgi> so, now - it's enough to just delete wallet.dat ? And let it create a new one automatically.
2090 2011-01-20 18:43:18 <btcex> genjix: aha
2091 2011-01-20 18:43:21 <cosurgi> booo... now its: 509188 khash/sec
2092 2011-01-20 18:43:39 <btcex> genjix: !111 we have bitcoin debian package, yes?
2093 2011-01-20 18:43:45 <btcex> and src package
2094 2011-01-20 18:43:51 <genjix> i haven't tried it yet
2095 2011-01-20 18:44:16 <btcex> i can try it
2096 2011-01-20 18:46:05 <Kiba> yay
2097 2011-01-20 18:46:12 * Kiba celebrates his first milestone
2098 2011-01-20 18:46:41 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: ding!
2099 2011-01-20 18:46:50 <cosurgi> :-)
2100 2011-01-20 18:46:52 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: try with -w 64 though
2101 2011-01-20 18:46:56 <cosurgi> ok.
2102 2011-01-20 18:47:35 <cosurgi> [20.01.11 19:42:39] Added Cypress (#1) (18 CU, local work size of 64)
2103 2011-01-20 18:47:35 <cosurgi> [20.01.11 19:42:47] Added Cypress (#2) (18 CU, local work size of 64)
2104 2011-01-20 18:47:46 <cosurgi> what is work size?
2105 2011-01-20 18:48:02 OneFixt has quit ()
2106 2011-01-20 18:48:07 <cosurgi> 539576 khash/sec ???
2107 2011-01-20 18:48:23 <cosurgi> I guess it will go down, just like before
2108 2011-01-20 18:48:30 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2109 2011-01-20 18:48:36 <cosurgi> yes, it just did: 509109 khash/sec
2110 2011-01-20 18:48:59 dukeleto has joined
2111 2011-01-20 18:49:44 <btcex> some backports requests
2112 2011-01-20 18:49:48 <btcex> strange repo
2113 2011-01-20 18:49:49 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: what changes if I set a different work size ?
2114 2011-01-20 18:49:59 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: speed.
2115 2011-01-20 18:50:13 <cosurgi> is it a different algorithm?
2116 2011-01-20 18:50:13 <Diablo-D3> 64 and 128 seem to be the only interesting ones for radeon 5xxx
2117 2011-01-20 18:50:15 <Diablo-D3> no
2118 2011-01-20 18:50:22 <Diablo-D3> it just changes the wavefront size in the hardware
2119 2011-01-20 18:50:34 <cosurgi> ok.
2120 2011-01-20 18:50:50 <cosurgi> I see little to no difference.
2121 2011-01-20 18:51:00 <Diablo-D3> 64 is only a tiny bit faster
2122 2011-01-20 18:51:04 OneFixt has joined
2123 2011-01-20 18:51:05 <cosurgi> ok.
2124 2011-01-20 18:51:14 <Diablo-D3> depends on the driver and sdk
2125 2011-01-20 18:51:14 <cosurgi> Current Clocks : 765
2126 2011-01-20 18:51:15 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
2127 2011-01-20 18:51:15 OneFixt has joined
2128 2011-01-20 18:51:18 <Diablo-D3> some it does fast, some it doesnt
2129 2011-01-20 18:52:04 <cosurgi> hmm.. I remember that this card had "OC" in it's name, which means that they sold me an overclocked card, probably.
2130 2011-01-20 18:53:06 <btcex> genjix: bitcoind succesful builded as you say
2131 2011-01-20 18:53:17 <cosurgi> s/builded/built/gc
2132 2011-01-20 18:53:30 <genjix> btcex: kk
2133 2011-01-20 18:53:43 <btcex> now i am swithch on core dumps
2134 2011-01-20 18:53:48 <btcex> for safe :)
2135 2011-01-20 18:55:32 <ineedmoney> SEGFAULT
2136 2011-01-20 18:55:46 <btcex> probably not
2137 2011-01-20 18:55:54 <btcex> 8333 port are exists
2138 2011-01-20 18:56:01 <btcex> old bitcoind running
2139 2011-01-20 18:56:10 <ineedmoney> what of it?
2140 2011-01-20 18:58:14 <btcex> ineedmoney: it is one of my servers
2141 2011-01-20 18:58:22 <btcex> it is running bitcoind
2142 2011-01-20 18:58:37 <btcex> or i do not understand your question
2143 2011-01-20 18:59:04 <btcex> new bitcoind works donw
2144 2011-01-20 18:59:20 <btcex> "version" : 31902
2145 2011-01-20 18:59:29 <btcex> AMD 64
2146 2011-01-20 18:59:42 <jgarzik> w00t! Dragged a noted economist into a discussion on bitcoin.
2147 2011-01-20 18:59:51 <noagendamarket> nice
2148 2011-01-20 18:59:52 <ineedmoney> btcex: makes sense
2149 2011-01-20 18:59:56 <noagendamarket> which one?
2150 2011-01-20 18:59:58 <ineedmoney> jgarzik: I missed you
2151 2011-01-20 19:00:12 <ineedmoney> jgarzik: I hope you put a backdoor into that CPU miner
2152 2011-01-20 19:00:40 <btcex> ineedmoney: ?
2153 2011-01-20 19:00:42 <jgarzik> noagendamarket: private email, for now...
2154 2011-01-20 19:00:44 <jgarzik> ineedmoney: ?
2155 2011-01-20 19:00:47 <ineedmoney> hahaha
2156 2011-01-20 19:00:53 <ineedmoney> jgarzik: I've been using your software
2157 2011-01-20 19:00:56 <btcex> starnge what it is not avail debian src package
2158 2011-01-20 19:01:08 <btcex> bitcoin builds very clean
2159 2011-01-20 19:01:43 <btcex> ineedmoney: you can run miner in jail
2160 2011-01-20 19:01:51 <btcex> openvz etc
2161 2011-01-20 19:02:00 <ineedmoney> btcex: haha yep
2162 2011-01-20 19:02:06 <ineedmoney> btcex: thanks
2163 2011-01-20 19:03:13 <btcex> ineedmoney: also you can do not run miner at all. It is my choice :)
2164 2011-01-20 19:03:37 <ineedmoney> btcex: I make money either way.
2165 2011-01-20 19:04:05 <btcex> serious business
2166 2011-01-20 19:04:18 <ineedmoney> uhuh
2167 2011-01-20 19:04:29 <btcex> my friend also addicted to this gambling game
2168 2011-01-20 19:04:35 <ineedmoney> nah
2169 2011-01-20 19:04:40 <btcex> miners, GPUs
2170 2011-01-20 19:04:45 <ineedmoney> gambling bad
2171 2011-01-20 19:04:48 <btcex> he work in hardware store
2172 2011-01-20 19:04:55 <ineedmoney> huh?
2173 2011-01-20 19:04:58 <btcex> ineedmoney: mining like gambling
2174 2011-01-20 19:05:07 <ineedmoney> btcex: true
2175 2011-01-20 19:05:18 * cosurgi overclocked a little and will let it run ... forever :)
2176 2011-01-20 19:05:19 <btcex> and uses top GPU from store
2177 2011-01-20 19:07:28 <genjix> who owns bitcoinbet.com?
2178 2011-01-20 19:07:37 <ineedmoney> genjix: you do!
2179 2011-01-20 19:07:53 <genjix> ? am i missing something :p
2180 2011-01-20 19:08:03 <ineedmoney> genjix: a piece of your brain, perhaps.
2181 2011-01-20 19:08:09 <genjix> ah it's MoneyTree
2182 2011-01-20 19:09:24 <ineedmoney> genjix: what about money faucet?
2183 2011-01-20 19:10:18 <Kiba> jgarzik: noted?
2184 2011-01-20 19:11:38 <btcex> gavinandresen: Why are you (or Satoshi) doing 'strip' for the release version of binaries?
2185 2011-01-20 19:11:48 <ineedmoney> btcex: they installed a virus in it
2186 2011-01-20 19:11:50 <jgarzik> Kiba: PhD at major university. quotes and interviews of him are often sought by major US newspapers, when they need "an economist" to say something.
2187 2011-01-20 19:12:08 <genjix> jgarzik: what did he say?
2188 2011-01-20 19:12:09 <Kiba> jgarzik: is it...Krugman?
2189 2011-01-20 19:12:11 <genjix> kinda curious.
2190 2011-01-20 19:12:22 <jgarzik> he's asking questions
2191 2011-01-20 19:12:24 <genjix> s/kinda //
2192 2011-01-20 19:12:28 <noagendamarket> Krugman might trash it lol
2193 2011-01-20 19:12:30 <jgarzik> and no, it's not Krugman. :)
2194 2011-01-20 19:12:35 <Kiba> where?
2195 2011-01-20 19:12:40 <genjix> just questions?
2196 2011-01-20 19:12:50 <genjix> i see :) we'll have to wait then for the piledriver
2197 2011-01-20 19:13:17 <luke-jr> yay
2198 2011-01-20 19:13:22 <luke-jr> I have BTC income
2199 2011-01-20 19:13:30 <noagendamarket> *waits for the shitstorm
2200 2011-01-20 19:13:59 <gavinandresen> btcex: Satoshi build prior releases, and I'm guessing he released stripped binaries to save users download time.
2201 2011-01-20 19:14:08 <jgarzik> a bitcoin-backed fiat currency would be interesting
2202 2011-01-20 19:14:17 <luke-jr> stripping binaries is pretty standard practice
2203 2011-01-20 19:14:35 <Kiba> luke-jr: from what?
2204 2011-01-20 19:15:10 larsivi has joined
2205 2011-01-20 19:15:14 <luke-jr> Kiba: VPS hosting
2206 2011-01-20 19:15:25 <Kiba> so you host somebody for btc
2207 2011-01-20 19:15:26 <genjix> jgarzik: why? I was under the impression that was how "bitcoin cash" would work?
2208 2011-01-20 19:15:49 <genjix> (not government issued, but difficult to fake the notes)
2209 2011-01-20 19:16:08 <jgarzik> genjix: I meant a human-fiat currency with a "federal reserve", backed by software-fiat bitcoins as we know them now.
2210 2011-01-20 19:16:11 <luke-jr> genjix: why not gov't issued?
2211 2011-01-20 19:16:19 <jgarzik> I said "interesting" not "good" or "bad", note.
2212 2011-01-20 19:16:39 <genjix> luke-jr: i meant not necessarily govt issued
2213 2011-01-20 19:16:42 <luke-jr> create a standard fiat BitCoin currency, and let different organizations mint custom versions
2214 2011-01-20 19:17:03 <btcex> gavinandresen: Can be as long as this is a beta try cancel this practice? I sometimes drop a client on the desktop but I can not understand why. This happens after closing the window.
2215 2011-01-20 19:17:32 * jgarzik thinks prices denominated in bitcoins at your corner store are unlikely to ever happen, even if bitcoins are successful. My thesis is that a successful bitcoin will see it's overall "value" vary a lot, from day or day.
2216 2011-01-20 19:17:39 <jgarzik> but anyway
2217 2011-01-20 19:17:55 <btcex> sometimes I close a client on the desktop and it is crashes and I can not understand why. This happens after closing the window normally.
2218 2011-01-20 19:18:04 <btcex> sorry, "runglish"
2219 2011-01-20 19:18:08 <genjix> who knows. we're speculating.
2220 2011-01-20 19:18:35 <genjix> btcex: under linux though?
2221 2011-01-20 19:18:54 <btcex> genjix: yes, debian
2222 2011-01-20 19:19:19 <btcex> i am don't use windows
2223 2011-01-20 19:19:49 <btcex> no, sometimes, when I use the ATM I use windows
2224 2011-01-20 19:20:33 <gavinandresen> btcex: there's definitely something wrong with bitcoin/bitcoind shutdown... valgrind gets unhappy on shutdown. Anybody here done a lot of multithreaded programming want to try to figure it out?
2225 2011-01-20 19:21:42 <btcex> gavinandresen: i am run bitcoin GUI client on singlethreaded PC
2226 2011-01-20 19:21:48 <btcex> with one CPU
2227 2011-01-20 19:21:58 <genjix> no PC is single threaded.
2228 2011-01-20 19:22:01 <btcex> one core
2229 2011-01-20 19:22:04 <genjix> you mean single core.
2230 2011-01-20 19:22:08 <gavinandresen> btcex: the code is multithreaded.
2231 2011-01-20 19:22:09 <btcex> yep, core
2232 2011-01-20 19:22:17 <btcex> gavinandresen: ah, ok
2233 2011-01-20 19:22:25 <genjix> programs can run in lots of threads on one core.
2234 2011-01-20 19:22:37 <genjix> threads suck :p
2235 2011-01-20 19:22:57 <gavinandresen> ... threads in c++ suck....
2236 2011-01-20 19:23:50 <btcex> genjix: C++ sucks, I thing :)
2237 2011-01-20 19:24:05 <btcex> C++ needs synchronize{ }
2238 2011-01-20 19:24:08 <genjix> C++ gets a lot of flak, but it isn't terrible. :p
2239 2011-01-20 19:24:15 <btcex> as in D :)
2240 2011-01-20 19:24:20 <luke-jr> C++ only sucks because of the bloat
2241 2011-01-20 19:24:51 <btcex> On C++ programmer head contains big part of compilator functionality
2242 2011-01-20 19:24:57 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rf130751 / init.cpp : print -rescan timing info in debug.log - http://bit.ly/eGK8Py
2243 2011-01-20 19:25:56 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r3475caf / init.cpp : Merge branch 'issue34' of https://github.com/dooglus/bitcoin into FIXES - http://bit.ly/dQeYK3
2244 2011-01-20 19:27:39 <cosurgi> Adapter 0 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 95.50 C
2245 2011-01-20 19:27:42 <cosurgi> Adapter 1 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 88.00 C
2246 2011-01-20 19:27:48 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r415535e / (uibase.cpp uiproject.fbp): Merge branch 'fix-statusbar-color' of https://github.com/mhanne/bitcoin into FIXES - http://bit.ly/fCQtkE
2247 2011-01-20 19:27:52 <cosurgi> what do you guys think about 95 C temperature?
2248 2011-01-20 19:28:09 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: too high
2249 2011-01-20 19:28:12 <Diablo-D3> it shouldnt exceed 85
2250 2011-01-20 19:28:19 <sipa> only slightly more and you don't need a water cooker anymore
2251 2011-01-20 19:28:23 <cosurgi> that SLI board has one slot very close to bottom of the case.
2252 2011-01-20 19:28:45 <btcex> gavinandresen: listtransactions works fast? it is do work like select * from wallet where account = xxx; ?
2253 2011-01-20 19:28:49 <cosurgi> so I have a bad case for this...
2254 2011-01-20 19:28:56 <Diablo-D3> you just need more cooling.
2255 2011-01-20 19:29:03 <btcex> I need run in about 4 times in minute
2256 2011-01-20 19:29:06 <jgarzik> q,
2257 2011-01-20 19:29:06 <btcex> run it*
2258 2011-01-20 19:29:19 <cosurgi> aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 100"
2259 2011-01-20 19:29:22 <jgarzik> does anybody recall where is a graph, that shows bitcoin circulation growth over time?
2260 2011-01-20 19:29:30 <btcex> oh this is madness
2261 2011-01-20 19:29:37 <Diablo-D3> no, this is sparta
2262 2011-01-20 19:29:40 <jgarzik> ie. "2010: 5 million." through "2040: 21 million."
2263 2011-01-20 19:29:42 <btcex> jgarzik: wait
2264 2011-01-20 19:29:52 <cosurgi> hmm... but each of those cards has two fans, each.
2265 2011-01-20 19:30:00 <sipa> jgarzik: define circulation?
2266 2011-01-20 19:30:01 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min1:~$ aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 100"
2267 2011-01-20 19:30:01 <cosurgi> PPLIB command execution is Successful!
2268 2011-01-20 19:30:01 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min1:~$ aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0'
2269 2011-01-20 19:30:02 <cosurgi> Fan speed query:
2270 2011-01-20 19:30:02 <cosurgi> Query Index: 0, Speed in percent
2271 2011-01-20 19:30:03 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: so?
2272 2011-01-20 19:30:04 <cosurgi> Result: Fan Speed: 87%
2273 2011-01-20 19:30:05 <jgarzik> I want to visually show someone when bitcoin will reach 21 million
2274 2011-01-20 19:30:15 <jgarzik> sipa: number of bitcoins in existence; the number capped at 21 million
2275 2011-01-20 19:30:17 <btcex> jgarzik: http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/statistix.php it?
2276 2011-01-20 19:30:21 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: the hot air isnt being pushed out of the case
2277 2011-01-20 19:30:30 <cosurgi> something is wrong here - how do I change speed of all 4 fans? It says that I succesfully set speed to 100%, but then it says: 87%
2278 2011-01-20 19:30:33 <tcatm> jgarzik: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=bitcoins&media=total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png
2279 2011-01-20 19:30:40 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: because theres only one fan header
2280 2011-01-20 19:30:58 <cosurgi> you mean - all cards, and all their fans have the same speed?
2281 2011-01-20 19:31:00 <jgarzik> tcatm found it
2282 2011-01-20 19:31:02 <jgarzik> thanks
2283 2011-01-20 19:31:17 <gavinandresen> btcex: transactions are not indexed by account or time, so listtransactions has to scan through all wallet transactions (O(N)) and then sort (O(N log N))
2284 2011-01-20 19:31:21 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: if you have two fans that arent powered on external power, both are hooked up to the same fan header
2285 2011-01-20 19:31:22 <Kiba> eh
2286 2011-01-20 19:31:24 <Kiba> I am beat
2287 2011-01-20 19:31:36 <cosurgi> ok.
2288 2011-01-20 19:31:58 <btcex> gavinandresen: but listtransactions have account option
2289 2011-01-20 19:32:01 <gavinandresen> btcex: unless your wallet contains millions of transactions, it'll still probably be 'fast enough'.
2290 2011-01-20 19:32:22 <sipa> jgarzik: simple: never :p
2291 2011-01-20 19:33:03 <jgarzik> sipa: year 2033, it is estimated
2292 2011-01-20 19:33:17 <sipa> heh?
2293 2011-01-20 19:33:38 <sipa> no, unless the base unit is changed, it will never reach 21 million
2294 2011-01-20 19:34:24 <btcex> gavinandresen: Maybe I can manually add an index to db?
2295 2011-01-20 19:34:39 <btcex> berkeley db is like postgresql but without daemon, yep?
2296 2011-01-20 19:34:47 <gavinandresen> btcex: ummm.... no, berkeley db doesn't work that way.
2297 2011-01-20 19:34:58 <btcex> ok
2298 2011-01-20 19:35:03 <gavinandresen> (it is a 'nosql' database, just key=value store)
2299 2011-01-20 19:35:16 <gavinandresen> (mostly)
2300 2011-01-20 19:35:33 <sipa> jgarzik: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoins#How_long_will_it_take_to_generate_all_the_coins?
2301 2011-01-20 19:35:58 <genjix> jgarzik: check the bitcoin wikipdia article
2302 2011-01-20 19:36:10 <jgarzik> excellent
2303 2011-01-20 19:36:22 <jgarzik> though I think we will always solve blocks faster than 10 minutes
2304 2011-01-20 19:36:24 <jgarzik> on average
2305 2011-01-20 19:36:40 <sipa> we will as long as calculation speed increases
2306 2011-01-20 19:38:14 <btcex> My idea is this: I want to receive transactions to the addresses of account named 'gambling', but without giving new receiving addres to user for each bet.
2307 2011-01-20 19:38:46 <btcex> It is even possible?
2308 2011-01-20 19:39:52 <btcex> I have postgresql support on server becouse scheme can be difficult
2309 2011-01-20 19:39:56 <btcex> but fast
2310 2011-01-20 19:40:00 devolved has joined
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2312 2011-01-20 19:40:57 <genjix> btcex: yes
2313 2011-01-20 19:41:02 <genjix> i did it with pastecoin
2314 2011-01-20 19:44:15 <btcex> genjix: how it works?
2315 2011-01-20 19:44:32 <genjix> store the address in a PHP session variable
2316 2011-01-20 19:44:33 <btcex> and how you make it without listtransactions?
2317 2011-01-20 19:44:53 <genjix> i had different accounts per user
2318 2011-01-20 19:45:22 <genjix> then i store their send to address in the session variable.
2319 2011-01-20 19:47:14 <btcex> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
2320 2011-01-20 19:47:15 <btcex> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
2321 2011-01-20 19:47:15 <btcex> bitcoin in CMyApp::OnUnhandledException()
2322 2011-01-20 19:47:18 <btcex> oops
2323 2011-01-20 19:47:21 <btcex> wtf?
2324 2011-01-20 19:47:39 devon_hillard_ has joined
2325 2011-01-20 19:47:55 <soultcer> Happens sometimes, just use the command-line tools for berkleydb to restore it
2326 2011-01-20 19:48:29 <gavinandresen> btcex: ... or maybe berkeley db version mismatch...
2327 2011-01-20 19:48:57 <gavinandresen> (removing the ~/.bitcoin/database/log.* files might fix it)
2328 2011-01-20 19:49:03 <btcex> gavinandresen: it is 0.3.19 official binary
2329 2011-01-20 19:49:12 <btcex> not new bitcoind on my server
2330 2011-01-20 19:49:41 <btcex> ok i try this
2331 2011-01-20 19:50:48 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2332 2011-01-20 19:51:33 <btcex> gavinandresen: thanx, rm log.* fixed this
2333 2011-01-20 19:52:26 jav has joined
2334 2011-01-20 19:52:30 nolan_d has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2335 2011-01-20 19:52:35 devolved has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2336 2011-01-20 19:52:41 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2337 2011-01-20 19:52:51 RazielZ has quit ()
2338 2011-01-20 19:57:05 <btcex> genjix: how many addresses used on pastecoin?
2339 2011-01-20 19:57:57 <btcex> I guess that gambling uses approximately 3000 per month and want to use the pool of addresses
2340 2011-01-20 19:58:13 <btcex> not new addres per client
2341 2011-01-20 19:58:22 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2342 2011-01-20 20:00:13 luke-jr has joined
2343 2011-01-20 20:01:27 <btcex> $ bitcoin/bitcoin listtransactions user_id:37 count=1
2344 2011-01-20 20:01:27 <btcex> error: type mismatch
2345 2011-01-20 20:01:30 <btcex> why?
2346 2011-01-20 20:01:50 <btcex> yes
2347 2011-01-20 20:01:52 <btcex> YES!111
2348 2011-01-20 20:01:59 <btcex> eureka!1
2349 2011-01-20 20:02:16 <Diablo-D3> porn.
2350 2011-01-20 20:02:16 <btcex> I can set number of latest transactions and check only last 10
2351 2011-01-20 20:02:19 <btcex> yes?
2352 2011-01-20 20:02:38 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rdbe79d3 / util.cpp : Fix bus error in DebugPrint if -datadir given non-existent directory. - http://bit.ly/dHVbyt
2353 2011-01-20 20:03:09 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2354 2011-01-20 20:05:08 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2355 2011-01-20 20:05:42 dukeleto has joined
2356 2011-01-20 20:09:52 sabalaba has joined
2357 2011-01-20 20:09:55 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2358 2011-01-20 20:21:11 <btcex> int64 type is unsigned?
2359 2011-01-20 20:21:23 <btcex> used in bitcoin for time
2360 2011-01-20 20:22:22 <sipa> i dont think so actually
2361 2011-01-20 20:22:45 <sipa> but 21 million * 10**8
2362 2011-01-20 20:23:16 arcatan has quit (Quit: THE ONLY RULE IS GIGANTIC METEORITE.)
2363 2011-01-20 20:24:18 <sipa> is a lot lower than 2**63
2364 2011-01-20 20:27:03 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2365 2011-01-20 20:27:15 <btcex> thx, it is signed but why? :)
2366 2011-01-20 20:27:39 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2367 2011-01-20 20:27:48 <Diablo-D3> [03:16:36] <btcex> int64 type is unsigned?
2368 2011-01-20 20:27:56 <Diablo-D3> that'd be uin64
2369 2011-01-20 20:28:19 <btcex> thanks
2370 2011-01-20 20:28:44 <ineedmoney> today
2371 2011-01-20 20:28:45 <btcex> postgresl don't know unsigned 64 bit integers
2372 2011-01-20 20:28:46 sabalaba has joined
2373 2011-01-20 20:28:56 <ineedmoney> sealab 2021
2374 2011-01-20 20:29:15 <btcex> ineedmoney: sea lab? cartoon with foxy?
2375 2011-01-20 20:29:22 <ineedmoney> foxy?
2376 2011-01-20 20:29:30 <ineedmoney> oh is that the black chick?
2377 2011-01-20 20:29:34 <ineedmoney> the old one
2378 2011-01-20 20:29:50 <ineedmoney> ÑÑаÑа
2379 2011-01-20 20:29:59 <ineedmoney> forgot the accent, but whatever
2380 2011-01-20 20:30:04 <btcex> old? ÑÑаÑаÑ
2381 2011-01-20 20:30:18 <ineedmoney> yeah yeah thats what I meant
2382 2011-01-20 20:30:20 <ineedmoney> old keyboard lol
2383 2011-01-20 20:30:23 <ineedmoney> literally older than me
2384 2011-01-20 20:30:53 <btcex> ineedmoney: how old are you?
2385 2011-01-20 20:30:58 <x6763> is 'submitorder' for IP transactions?
2386 2011-01-20 20:30:58 <ineedmoney> 19
2387 2011-01-20 20:31:15 <ineedmoney> btcex: wait wait
2388 2011-01-20 20:31:18 <ineedmoney> what dialect is that
2389 2011-01-20 20:32:07 <btcex> ineedmoney: 19 years ago I already had my first computer
2390 2011-01-20 20:32:21 <btcex> ineedmoney: dialect? you about what?
2391 2011-01-20 20:32:38 <btcex> x6763: ?
2392 2011-01-20 20:32:39 <ineedmoney> btcex: those cyrillic characters, what dialect are they arranged for?
2393 2011-01-20 20:32:56 <x6763> btcex: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#submitorder
2394 2011-01-20 20:32:59 <btcex> ineedmoney: russian language
2395 2011-01-20 20:33:17 <ineedmoney> btcex: I see.
2396 2011-01-20 20:33:55 <btcex> ineedmoney: what you mean 'dialect'? modern russian has no dialects, how I know
2397 2011-01-20 20:34:29 <btcex> x6763: I do not know, very interesting
2398 2011-01-20 20:34:37 <ineedmoney> btcex: I see what you did there.
2399 2011-01-20 20:34:38 <btcex> ay be it is future option
2400 2011-01-20 20:35:00 <ineedmoney> btcex: I was hoping for ukranian, you know.
2401 2011-01-20 20:35:09 <ineedmoney> Ukrainian
2402 2011-01-20 20:35:10 <btcex> ineedmoney: vladimir?
2403 2011-01-20 20:35:15 <ineedmoney> who?
2404 2011-01-20 20:35:40 <btcex> ineedmoney: sorry)
2405 2011-01-20 20:35:56 <btcex> ineedmoney: Ukrainian differs little from the Russian
2406 2011-01-20 20:36:17 <ineedmoney> btcex: I know, I've heard plenty of both
2407 2011-01-20 20:36:18 <btcex> All Russian understand it by ~ 80%
2408 2011-01-20 20:36:30 <ineedmoney> Polish, too
2409 2011-01-20 20:37:16 <ineedmoney> so how can I be of service here?
2410 2011-01-20 20:37:31 <btcex> x6763: checkorder
2411 2011-01-20 20:37:31 <btcex> This message is used for IP Transactions, to ask the peer if it accepts such transactions and allow it to look at the content of the order.
2412 2011-01-20 20:37:38 <ineedmoney> ahh, okay
2413 2011-01-20 20:37:40 <ineedmoney> I get it
2414 2011-01-20 20:38:41 <btcex> ineedmoney: Polish is much less similar. Moreover, some words can have the opposite meaning, as far as I understand it.
2415 2011-01-20 20:38:43 <x6763> btcex: yeah, i know checkorder and reply are for IP transactions, as it's explicitly mentioned...i'm assuming that submitorder is also for IP transactions, but i just wanted to make sure before i consciously skip it in my implementation (i don't intend on implementing IP transactions in my code)
2416 2011-01-20 20:38:53 <ineedmoney> btcex: exactly!!!
2417 2011-01-20 20:39:18 <ineedmoney> x6763: yeah, IP is dead
2418 2011-01-20 20:39:25 <btcex> x6763: I hope you write it on D? :)
2419 2011-01-20 20:39:31 <ineedmoney> no
2420 2011-01-20 20:40:01 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2421 2011-01-20 20:40:08 <btcex> C++?
2422 2011-01-20 20:40:19 <x6763> btcex: Clojure, actually
2423 2011-01-20 20:40:35 T_X has joined
2424 2011-01-20 20:40:35 T_X has quit (Changing host)
2425 2011-01-20 20:40:35 T_X has joined
2426 2011-01-20 20:40:35 <ineedmoney> right...
2427 2011-01-20 20:40:51 <ineedmoney> haha
2428 2011-01-20 20:40:52 <ineedmoney> T_X:
2429 2011-01-20 20:41:03 <btcex> x6763: what is Clojure?
2430 2011-01-20 20:41:11 <x6763> a new Lisp for the JVM
2431 2011-01-20 20:41:15 <btcex> ObjectC, C, C++
2432 2011-01-20 20:41:16 <ineedmoney> Java, ugh
2433 2011-01-20 20:41:21 <btcex> oh, lisp? cool
2434 2011-01-20 20:41:24 <btcex> I like lisp
2435 2011-01-20 20:41:28 <ineedmoney> parenthesis!
2436 2011-01-20 20:41:30 <x6763> clojure.org
2437 2011-01-20 20:41:37 <x6763> or #clojure
2438 2011-01-20 20:41:42 <ineedmoney> or #c
2439 2011-01-20 20:41:59 <x6763> ineedmoney: haha
2440 2011-01-20 20:42:09 <ineedmoney> x6763: right?
2441 2011-01-20 20:42:13 <ineedmoney> assembly?
2442 2011-01-20 20:42:14 <x6763> ineedmoney: you get used the parenthesis
2443 2011-01-20 20:42:36 <ineedmoney> x86 assembler
2444 2011-01-20 20:43:11 <x6763> ineedmoney: with paredit in emacs, you barely have to think about parenthesis
2445 2011-01-20 20:43:18 <ineedmoney> emacs...
2446 2011-01-20 20:43:26 <x6763> ineedmoney: not a fan of emacs, either, i take it?
2447 2011-01-20 20:43:28 <x6763> lol
2448 2011-01-20 20:43:29 <ineedmoney> real programmers use...
2449 2011-01-20 20:43:45 <btcex> x6763: it is for research purpose or you code production code?
2450 2011-01-20 20:43:53 Myckel has joined
2451 2011-01-20 20:44:02 <ineedmoney> it's for everything
2452 2011-01-20 20:44:11 <ineedmoney> мÑÑкел
2453 2011-01-20 20:44:17 * btcex uses lisp as calculator :)
2454 2011-01-20 20:44:27 <btcex> ineedmoney: mysql?
2455 2011-01-20 20:44:29 <ineedmoney> btcex: matlab?
2456 2011-01-20 20:44:32 <x6763> btcex: it's mainly just to get a bitcoin client/library up and running, which i can then use building a decentralized DNS
2457 2011-01-20 20:44:45 <ineedmoney> x6763: oh good, I've been waiting for that
2458 2011-01-20 20:45:17 <btcex> x6763: consensus about bitdns is reached?
2459 2011-01-20 20:45:23 <ineedmoney> bitdns?
2460 2011-01-20 20:45:26 <ineedmoney> why trust those guys?
2461 2011-01-20 20:45:27 <x6763> btcex: not that i'm aware of
2462 2011-01-20 20:45:37 <ineedmoney> x6763: right.
2463 2011-01-20 20:46:45 <x6763> btcex: this is just something that i'm working on by myself right now (me and a few other guys left the dot-p2p group to make something entirely decentralized)
2464 2011-01-20 20:47:10 <ineedmoney> x6763: where are you located?
2465 2011-01-20 20:47:20 <x6763> ineedmoney: earth
2466 2011-01-20 20:47:28 <ineedmoney> x6763: so where do I meet up?
2467 2011-01-20 20:47:31 <ineedmoney> what's the dead drop?
2468 2011-01-20 20:47:48 <btcex> bye all
2469 2011-01-20 20:47:49 <x6763> ineedmoney: meet up for what?
2470 2011-01-20 20:47:52 btcex has quit (Quit: ТаÑÑ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð°ÑÑ Ñ
войного дÑевоÑÑоÑ!..)
2471 2011-01-20 20:48:05 <ineedmoney> x6763: to exchange code
2472 2011-01-20 20:48:13 <x6763> we have a channel: ##dns-p2p but we're pretty quiet there
2473 2011-01-20 20:48:33 <x6763> ineedmoney: i haven't released any code yet, but i will be shortly, after i finish the bitcoin client
2474 2011-01-20 20:48:50 <ineedmoney> custom cryptography?
2475 2011-01-20 20:53:15 <omglolbbq> can somebody help me find out how to get my bitcoin to work again? ..
2476 2011-01-20 20:53:50 <ineedmoney> omglolbbq: googlefu
2477 2011-01-20 20:53:59 <ineedmoney> rtfm, etc
2478 2011-01-20 20:54:21 <omglolbbq> srsly?
2479 2011-01-20 20:54:53 <omglolbbq> im asking because i can't find out, not because it was so easy to figure out :)
2480 2011-01-20 20:55:05 <ineedmoney> what's the issue?
2481 2011-01-20 20:55:25 <omglolbbq> bitcoin just crashes at start with my wallet, if i use a different wallet or remove it it works fine
2482 2011-01-20 20:55:33 <omglolbbq> set back my wallet and it crashes again
2483 2011-01-20 20:55:53 <omglolbbq> "EXCEPTION: 11DbException. Db::put: Operation not permitted. C:\bitcoin\bitcoin.exe in ProcessMessage()"
2484 2011-01-20 20:56:02 <ineedmoney> mitm
2485 2011-01-20 20:56:31 <omglolbbq> thats one error, the other is a runtime error
2486 2011-01-20 20:56:41 <ineedmoney> and?
2487 2011-01-20 20:57:10 <omglolbbq> application has requested the runtime to terminate in an unusual way contact support blabla
2488 2011-01-20 20:58:01 <omglolbbq> i removed everything related to bitcoin and installed again, set back my wallet, same crap
2489 2011-01-20 20:59:13 <ineedmoney> omglolbbq: get a new client
2490 2011-01-20 20:59:21 <ineedmoney> omglolbbq: #qbitcoin
2491 2011-01-20 21:00:15 <omglolbbq> that would be last resort, but it has always worked fine until today ... so i'd like to find out whats going on
2492 2011-01-20 21:00:41 <ineedmoney> today?
2493 2011-01-20 21:00:44 <ineedmoney> come on
2494 2011-01-20 21:01:24 <jav> omglolbbq, what platform are you on?
2495 2011-01-20 21:01:53 <jav> oh wait, I guess windows, from that bitcoin.exe in the error message
2496 2011-01-20 21:02:25 <jav> no idea then, sorry
2497 2011-01-20 21:02:41 <omglolbbq> win7
2498 2011-01-20 21:02:43 <nanotube> omglolbbq: have you any backups?
2499 2011-01-20 21:02:57 <omglolbbq> from my wallet? yes, i tried restoring those, same crap
2500 2011-01-20 21:03:25 <nanotube> hm weird. guess you get to stick around until someone who knows what's up with berkeleydb comes along.
2501 2011-01-20 21:03:46 <omglolbbq> the first message disappeard when i restored a backup
2502 2011-01-20 21:03:51 guest has joined
2503 2011-01-20 21:03:54 <omglolbbq> so now it just crashes with the runtime error
2504 2011-01-20 21:03:59 <nanotube> hah
2505 2011-01-20 21:04:03 <nanotube> then maybe try it on a *nix?
2506 2011-01-20 21:04:16 <omglolbbq> i could try that
2507 2011-01-20 21:04:19 <nanotube> maybe windows decided for some reason that bitcoin is a virus and is preventing it from running
2508 2011-01-20 21:04:30 <nanotube> who knows what kind of weird crap goes on inside there. :)
2509 2011-01-20 21:04:32 <ineedmoney> nanotube: it is
2510 2011-01-20 21:04:33 <omglolbbq> it runs fine with other wallets, or when it creates a newone if it's missing
2511 2011-01-20 21:05:10 <nanotube> omglolbbq: well, just saying that it's probably easiest to try on a *nix and see if that helps. :)
2512 2011-01-20 21:05:27 <ineedmoney> nanotube: true
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2519 2011-01-20 21:12:22 <omglolbbq> works on linux
2520 2011-01-20 21:12:44 <omglolbbq> can i make bitcoin rescan the blockchain with my keys? since it's missing all transactions since my backup
2521 2011-01-20 21:13:09 <dsg> You're in luck, gavinandresen was just implementing that earlier today.
2522 2011-01-20 21:13:33 <dsg> Probably in his git tree by now
2523 2011-01-20 21:13:48 davout has joined
2524 2011-01-20 21:13:56 <omglolbbq> i tought the wallet only stored my keys, not actual transaction data
2525 2011-01-20 21:14:49 <nanotube> omglolbbq: yes, to make it rescan, delete blkindex.dat
2526 2011-01-20 21:15:05 <omglolbbq> tnx nanotube
2527 2011-01-20 21:17:56 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2528 2011-01-20 21:25:48 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r87c1947 / init.cpp : Merge branch 'showdefaultsinhelp' of https://github.com/dooglus/bitcoin into integration - http://bit.ly/fGdUJz
2529 2011-01-20 21:25:55 gavinandresen has joined
2530 2011-01-20 21:26:08 <omglolbbq> does thaat rescan? or just download blocks again too
2531 2011-01-20 21:27:15 jaywalk has joined
2532 2011-01-20 21:27:18 <jaywalk> evening!
2533 2011-01-20 21:27:27 <omglolbbq> hi jaywalk
2534 2011-01-20 21:28:16 <jaywalk> I just tried the latest binary of bitcoin on a AMD Opteron 6100 server, -4way halved the performance instead of doubling as I wouldve expected. Anyone have a list of supported CPUs?
2535 2011-01-20 21:30:02 <x6763> does anyone know how i can create a public key object with BouncyCastle (the java version) with the x and y coordinates of a point on the curve? (see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Signatures)
2536 2011-01-20 21:33:58 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r245e1b4 / main.cpp : Merge branch '4wayswitch' of https://github.com/dooglus/bitcoin into integration - http://bit.ly/frMpix
2537 2011-01-20 21:33:59 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r458cf90 / init.cpp : Merge branch 'printtoconsole' of https://github.com/dooglus/bitcoin into integration - http://bit.ly/e7b8dy
2538 2011-01-20 21:34:00 <CIA-106> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r05563e9 / init.cpp : Add -rescan option to --help output - http://bit.ly/ej5Su3
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2542 2011-01-20 21:38:04 <gavinandresen> jaywalk: -4way was broken, I just committed a fix
2543 2011-01-20 21:38:19 <ineedmoney> gavinandresen: good job
2544 2011-01-20 21:39:02 <gavinandresen> (thank Chris Moore aka dooglus @ github....)
2545 2011-01-20 21:39:21 <jaywalk> gavinandresen: ah, is there a repo link to compile myself and try? curious tonight:)
2546 2011-01-20 21:40:11 bitanarchy has joined
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2548 2011-01-20 21:40:11 bitanarchy has joined
2549 2011-01-20 21:40:29 <gavinandresen> jaywalk: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/
2550 2011-01-20 21:40:49 <jaywalk> thanks!:)
2551 2011-01-20 21:41:09 <ineedmoney> gavinandresen: hahaha
2552 2011-01-20 21:42:52 <lucky> gavinandresen, really? i thought it was a limitation of the SSE implementation in pre Core i processors\
2553 2011-01-20 21:43:34 <gavinandresen> lucky: might be. The bug fix was a simple typo that made the -4way command-line switch not do what it aught to do.
2554 2011-01-20 21:44:47 <bitanarchy> Bitcoins originate in blocks. Let's say that old bitcoins are bitcoins that originate in old blocks. So what really values each bitcoin w.r.t. another is the bitcoin balance front-end. But what if the market starts valuing old and new bitcoins differently w.r.t each other. Say that old bitcoins get a collectors value, like the genesis block. If that is possible, you need a special fron-end...
2555 2011-01-20 21:44:49 <bitanarchy> ...that can determine exactly which coin you send.
2556 2011-01-20 21:45:35 <devon_hillard> slush: "Approx. cluster performance: 20749.256823 Mhash/s"
2557 2011-01-20 21:45:39 <lucky> jaywalk, Core i processors
2558 2011-01-20 21:45:50 <lucky> jaywalk, i3 i5 i7 as I understand.
2559 2011-01-20 21:46:03 AAA_awright_ has joined
2560 2011-01-20 21:46:29 <gavinandresen> bitanarchy: If only bitcoin were open source so you could... hey, wait a minute!
2561 2011-01-20 21:46:52 <lucky> My core i5 desktop does it, my core 2 quad does not and gets about 1/2 performance from 4way
2562 2011-01-20 21:47:39 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2563 2011-01-20 21:48:24 <jaywalk> lucky: wiki mentions K10 aswell, and http://developer.amd.com/zones/hpc/pages/hardware.aspx for example seem to agree:)
2564 2011-01-20 21:48:31 <lucky> jaywalk, perhaps only certain models.
2565 2011-01-20 21:48:36 <jaywalk> third and fourth generation opteron should do it
2566 2011-01-20 21:48:42 <lucky> jaywalk, try jgarzik's cpuminer
2567 2011-01-20 21:48:47 <lucky> and see if that works w/ 4way
2568 2011-01-20 21:48:52 <jaywalk> I'm trying gavinandresen git first:)
2569 2011-01-20 21:49:02 <jaywalk> since he said it was broken and now fixed:)
2570 2011-01-20 21:49:18 <bitanarchy> gavin: What I want to say, is that I suspect that in the future it may happen that the geometric decrease in value of the blocks may no longer be used... but instead some other decreasing graph.
2571 2011-01-20 21:50:08 <lucky> ahah woot! 35 khash/sec
2572 2011-01-20 21:50:32 <lucky> Average 26187 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes
2573 2011-01-20 21:50:33 <lucky> lool
2574 2011-01-20 21:50:37 <lucky> i think i'll be pooling that one.
2575 2011-01-20 21:50:52 <sipa> what device id that
2576 2011-01-20 21:50:54 <sipa> is
2577 2011-01-20 21:51:16 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2578 2011-01-20 21:52:04 <lucky> Sparcstation 20 w/ a 75 MHz SPARC
2579 2011-01-20 21:52:16 <sipa> haha
2580 2011-01-20 21:53:10 <sipa> 0.002 BTC/day still
2581 2011-01-20 21:53:15 <jaywalk> gavinandresen: oh, ofc have no x libraries nor gtk on this machine. can the X parts of bitcoin be disabled yet? remember ranting about this long ago:)
2582 2011-01-20 21:53:41 <sipa> make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
2583 2011-01-20 21:53:56 <jaywalk> ah, bitcoind target. thx!:)
2584 2011-01-20 21:54:13 <lucky> yes
2585 2011-01-20 21:54:17 <lucky> :D
2586 2011-01-20 21:54:50 <lucky> i doubt the increased power consumption of this ol' machine hashing is exactly cost-effective :P
2587 2011-01-20 21:55:03 genjix has joined
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2592 2011-01-20 21:59:34 <davout> with 35 khash/s you'd better get... lucky
2593 2011-01-20 21:59:41 <davout> BADUM TSSSS
2594 2011-01-20 21:59:54 <lucky> yeah, if i had a bitcoin for everytime someone made a lucky pun.
2595 2011-01-20 22:00:00 <lucky> i wouldn't need to hash.
2596 2011-01-20 22:00:44 * jgarzik wrote his own makefile for bitcoind. It was far shorter and easier to use than the current one :)
2597 2011-01-20 22:01:17 <lucky> jgarzik, oh, your CPU miner code works on FreeBSD/SPARC and NetBSD/SPARC
2598 2011-01-20 22:01:19 AAA_awright_ has joined
2599 2011-01-20 22:01:30 <lucky> with a minor makefile change to point to the correct path for libcurl
2600 2011-01-20 22:02:21 <jgarzik> lucky: ? the makefile is autogenerated from platform details.
2601 2011-01-20 22:02:33 <lucky> i know, configure screwed up
2602 2011-01-20 22:02:39 <lucky> i changed the makefile and it worked *shrug*
2603 2011-01-20 22:02:46 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2604 2011-01-20 22:03:26 <jgarzik> lucky: it pulls directly from curl-config on your platform
2605 2011-01-20 22:03:34 <lucky> which is broken, i guess. :P
2606 2011-01-20 22:03:49 <jgarzik> lucky: so configure didn't screw up :)
2607 2011-01-20 22:04:44 <lucky> well what actually broke was one part requires the libcurl path to compile but it's not in the makefile
2608 2011-01-20 22:04:44 <lucky> jansson
2609 2011-01-20 22:05:04 <lucky> JANSSON_INCLUDES = -I$(top_srcdir)/compat/jansson
2610 2011-01-20 22:05:10 <lucky> I tacked a -I/usr/local/include on that
2611 2011-01-20 22:05:14 <lucky> and it compiled
2612 2011-01-20 22:05:24 <davout> het
2613 2011-01-20 22:05:26 <davout> hey*
2614 2011-01-20 22:05:38 <davout> can someone send .01 BTC to 1FRYGmtwZjXQjE2qh6czURjbeGCBjpGW6a ?
2615 2011-01-20 22:05:45 <davout> gotta test something real quick
2616 2011-01-20 22:05:47 <lucky> is this how you get rich? :P
2617 2011-01-20 22:05:53 <lucky> hold on
2618 2011-01-20 22:06:11 <davout> s/.01/5678/
2619 2011-01-20 22:06:12 <bitanarchy> Is it possible to visualize the block chain transactions in a diagram... to see its complexity?
2620 2011-01-20 22:06:12 <lucky> sent
2621 2011-01-20 22:06:18 <davout> thank you
2622 2011-01-20 22:06:19 <jaywalk> gavinandresen: 5-10 percent increase compared to the original binary, so guessing it didnt work:) did I need to do anything but compile and run?
2623 2011-01-20 22:06:36 <davout> lucky: give me your address so i can send it back
2624 2011-01-20 22:06:52 <lucky> 13f3FuKdUXkA6r6Ab3gTmsk2tszqDmJRd6
2625 2011-01-20 22:09:23 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2626 2011-01-20 22:10:26 andrew12^droid has joined
2627 2011-01-20 22:11:15 <davout> thank you
2628 2011-01-20 22:11:16 <andrew12^droid> botsnack!
2629 2011-01-20 22:11:36 <davout> test was good, great success!
2630 2011-01-20 22:12:07 <lucky> yay i got my coin back!
2631 2011-01-20 22:13:12 <bitanarchy> Could it be that, in the future, higher fees will be asked for bitcoins that are older, because it takes longer to check their authenticity?
2632 2011-01-20 22:13:24 <davout> bitcoin-central is getting an SCI in a couple of days if anyone is interested :)
2633 2011-01-20 22:13:39 <newsham> bitanarchy: i'd love to see it in a graphviz graph
2634 2011-01-20 22:13:50 riush has joined
2635 2011-01-20 22:14:05 * davout brofists lucky
2636 2011-01-20 22:14:12 <jgarzik> davout: have you fixed JSON yet?
2637 2011-01-20 22:14:18 <davout> yup
2638 2011-01-20 22:14:19 <bitanarchy> newsham: yeah!
2639 2011-01-20 22:14:22 <davout> since this morning
2640 2011-01-20 22:14:22 <andrew12^droid> bitanarchy: pretty sure it won't.
2641 2011-01-20 22:14:32 <davout> like french morning
2642 2011-01-20 22:14:45 <dirtyfilthy> i've never had much luck with graphviz and diagrams with thousands of nodes
2643 2011-01-20 22:14:49 <davout> anyway, i kindof broke the original structure also
2644 2011-01-20 22:14:52 <andrew12^droid> Graphviz graph of transactions? Would take ages to generate xD
2645 2011-01-20 22:14:54 <jgarzik> davout: still a bit broken.
2646 2011-01-20 22:14:58 <davout> because it was shitty
2647 2011-01-20 22:15:07 <jgarzik> davout: currencies: 'eur', 'lreur', 'lrusd' and 'at'
2648 2011-01-20 22:15:07 <jgarzik> :)
2649 2011-01-20 22:15:10 <davout> jgarzik: ok, hit me
2650 2011-01-20 22:15:13 <andrew12^droid> And to render
2651 2011-01-20 22:15:17 <davout> fffuuuu
2652 2011-01-20 22:15:25 <newsham> re older bitcoins: the person making the block doesnt need to check the bitcoin, right?
2653 2011-01-20 22:16:24 <davout> jgarzik: it's just me pinging back to you the time the data was polled
2654 2011-01-20 22:16:29 <jgarzik> davout: Error is easy to see here: http://gtf.org/garzik/misc/ticker.txt
2655 2011-01-20 22:16:34 <davout> hmm
2656 2011-01-20 22:16:38 <davout> lemme see
2657 2011-01-20 22:17:13 <davout> yea, i removed the array structure around the currency pairs
2658 2011-01-20 22:17:17 <davout> that was on purpose
2659 2011-01-20 22:17:22 <davout> cuz i mean
2660 2011-01-20 22:17:33 andrew12^droid has quit (Quit: parting is such sweet sorrow...)
2661 2011-01-20 22:17:50 <davout> { "a" => [ "b" => "c", "d" => "e"] }
2662 2011-01-20 22:17:51 andrew12^droid has joined
2663 2011-01-20 22:17:55 <davout> isn't valid json, is it ?
2664 2011-01-20 22:18:22 <davout> shouldn't it be { Ã"a" => { "b" => "c", "d" => "e" } } ??
2665 2011-01-20 22:18:25 <jgarzik> davout: it's valid JSON. I'm talking about the 'at' entry in the top-level JSON Object.
2666 2011-01-20 22:18:31 <davout> yea i know :)
2667 2011-01-20 22:18:47 <jgarzik> davout: it's an ugly special case. You list currency, currency, currency, $SomethingElse.
2668 2011-01-20 22:18:50 <bitanarchy> andrew12: Isn't the block chain growing exponentially in size? So eventually old bitcoins take more time to check, right?
2669 2011-01-20 22:19:04 <andrew12^droid> When I get home I'll see if I can figure out a graphviz graph. I'll upload the dot somewhere for you guys to play with.
2670 2011-01-20 22:19:08 <davout> first option looks like an unfortunate collision between a hash and an array
2671 2011-01-20 22:19:22 <davout> ok, gonna try sthg
2672 2011-01-20 22:19:46 <andrew12^droid> bitanarchy: Pretty sure it won't, but I've got no idea
2673 2011-01-20 22:19:50 <davout> also fuck API breakage, BC is going to be the new standard \o/
2674 2011-01-20 22:20:32 <dirtyfilthy> i'm not following why it would take longer
2675 2011-01-20 22:22:20 <andrew12> me neither
2676 2011-01-20 22:22:24 andrew12^droid has quit (Client Quit)
2677 2011-01-20 22:22:27 <andrew12> also hi
2678 2011-01-20 22:22:27 <andrew12> :p
2679 2011-01-20 22:22:32 <dirtyfilthy> :)
2680 2011-01-20 22:22:35 <bitanarchy> why is pecunix traded for for bc at bcm, but LRGG is not traded for bc at any major exchange?
2681 2011-01-20 22:23:15 <andrew12> now for graphviz
2682 2011-01-20 22:23:31 int0x27h has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2683 2011-01-20 22:26:34 andrew12^mac has joined
2684 2011-01-20 22:26:37 <andrew12^mac> hi :)
2685 2011-01-20 22:26:39 <davout> jgarzik: go. for. it.
2686 2011-01-20 22:26:41 <davout> :)
2687 2011-01-20 22:28:57 lyspooner has joined
2688 2011-01-20 22:30:00 <davout> jgarzik: can you add remaining blox before next diff?
2689 2011-01-20 22:30:04 <andrew12^mac> writing a script to take a transaction id and make a digraph out of it :)
2690 2011-01-20 22:30:11 <davout> and next diff est.
2691 2011-01-20 22:30:11 lyspooner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2692 2011-01-20 22:30:13 <davout> ?
2693 2011-01-20 22:30:20 <hacim> i just can't get puddinpop's rpcminer to work on linux
2694 2011-01-20 22:30:32 <andrew12^mac> hacim: first guess: you're doing it wrong :p
2695 2011-01-20 22:30:39 <hacim> andrew12^mac: probably
2696 2011-01-20 22:31:36 <hacim> i'll take any suggestions for what way I'm doing it wrong
2697 2011-01-20 22:31:57 <hacim> since i've been fucking with it for two days without success
2698 2011-01-20 22:32:51 int0x27h has joined
2699 2011-01-20 22:33:58 lyspooner has joined
2700 2011-01-20 22:34:14 <davout> once, in kazakhstan, i fucked a donkey for two days, great success!
2701 2011-01-20 22:34:59 <andrew12^mac> i hope you're either joking or someone else is typing that.
2702 2011-01-20 22:35:27 jav has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2703 2011-01-20 22:36:18 <lyspooner> does it make sense to ask how many bitcoins have been generated on the test market?
2704 2011-01-20 22:36:34 <jgarzik> davout: just returned from SIGBABY. um, wow. :)
2705 2011-01-20 22:36:53 <jgarzik> davout: yes -- change looks good
2706 2011-01-20 22:37:43 <lyspooner> if it does make sense, how much would it cost to buy 1,000,000 test market bitcoins?
2707 2011-01-20 22:37:48 <davout> coders have this main difference with women
2708 2011-01-20 22:37:48 <nanotube> lyspooner: yes, count the blocks, multiply by 50
2709 2011-01-20 22:37:50 <jgarzik> bitanarchy: LRGG has been discontinued, AFAICS
2710 2011-01-20 22:37:58 <davout> there is a rational way to satisfy them
2711 2011-01-20 22:38:01 <davout> XD
2712 2011-01-20 22:38:04 <lyspooner> nanotube, count the blocks for me
2713 2011-01-20 22:38:12 <nanotube> blockexplorer.com/testnet
2714 2011-01-20 22:39:17 <luke-jr> who runs blockexplorer?
2715 2011-01-20 22:39:40 <lyspooner> i will pay 10 dollars for 500,000 test market bitcoins
2716 2011-01-20 22:40:10 <davout> luke: tcatm
2717 2011-01-20 22:40:19 <nanotube> lyspooner: 28290 blocks, 50 each, total of 1414500 tn btc.
2718 2011-01-20 22:40:27 <davout> oops
2719 2011-01-20 22:40:28 <nanotube> luke-jr: theymos runs blockexplorer
2720 2011-01-20 22:40:30 <jgarzik> luke-jr: theymos
2721 2011-01-20 22:40:32 <nanotube> davout: :)
2722 2011-01-20 22:40:33 <davout> s/tcatm/theymos/
2723 2011-01-20 22:40:50 <davout> i have an excuse
2724 2011-01-20 22:40:56 <davout> it's late in france
2725 2011-01-20 22:40:58 <lyspooner> t bourre
2726 2011-01-20 22:41:00 <nanotube> hehe
2727 2011-01-20 22:41:09 * davout likes chivas regal too
2728 2011-01-20 22:41:13 <nanotube> lyspooner: try putting in an order on the otc book...
2729 2011-01-20 22:41:13 <luke-jr> does theymos use IRC?
2730 2011-01-20 22:41:17 <nanotube> yes
2731 2011-01-20 22:41:19 <nanotube> he's here regularly
2732 2011-01-20 22:41:23 <luke-jr> cool
2733 2011-01-20 22:41:28 <luke-jr> need to get him to add TBC support
2734 2011-01-20 22:41:29 <luke-jr> :D
2735 2011-01-20 22:41:44 <nanotube> heh
2736 2011-01-20 22:41:55 * davout is now going for some natural hash goodness
2737 2011-01-20 22:42:17 <luke-jr> anyhow, I tried to modify cpuminer to use Sandy Bridge accel, but failed miserably
2738 2011-01-20 22:42:23 <luke-jr> GNU as doesn't like the assembly code I found
2739 2011-01-20 22:42:47 <bitanarchy> jgarzik: I still see gg when I am in LR.
2740 2011-01-20 22:42:54 ineedmoney has joined
2741 2011-01-20 22:44:30 <bitanarchy> Why does BCM and MG not support pecunix?....
2742 2011-01-20 22:44:43 <bitanarchy> I mean BC... BCM has it.
2743 2011-01-20 22:44:45 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2744 2011-01-20 22:44:57 <nanotube> bitanarchy: there's a feature request for pecunix for bc.
2745 2011-01-20 22:45:06 <nanotube> mtgox... well you can email him to suggest it.
2746 2011-01-20 22:45:42 <luke-jr> is there demand?
2747 2011-01-20 22:45:49 <luke-jr> I don't see much Pecunix traffic on BM
2748 2011-01-20 22:45:57 <bitanarchy> And also, don't exchanges get bothered with money laundering regulations.... It just seems like there is a great risk involved to start one up in europe...
2749 2011-01-20 22:46:38 <sipa> legally it is not money
2750 2011-01-20 22:47:44 <bitanarchy> sipa: money goes in and money goes out.... and bitcoin is in between.
2751 2011-01-20 22:47:57 <lyspooner> has anyone discussed vladimir's forum proposition?
2752 2011-01-20 22:48:16 <lyspooner> 1 Ghash/sec for 1 year for 3200 a year
2753 2011-01-20 22:48:34 <gavinandresen> lyspooner: there's a pretty good chance the -testnet will be reset in the next few days, you might not want to pay money for -testnet coins
2754 2011-01-20 22:49:22 <noagendamarket> The best way to avoid money laundering charges is to stay below $1000 per person a day
2755 2011-01-20 22:49:38 <jaywalk> gavinandresen: another update, with the original version i get .5 of the performance with -4way, now I get identical performance. printf traced the code and it does indeed choose the different blocks. just same performance
2756 2011-01-20 22:50:07 <lyspooner> gavinandresen, would the decision to reset the testnet be different if testnet coins started trading for .80 usd/btc
2757 2011-01-20 22:50:17 <lyspooner> who makes these decisions? the network?
2758 2011-01-20 22:50:18 <luke-jr> what is money laundering anyhow?
2759 2011-01-20 22:51:23 <noagendamarket> it is whatever the men with guns say it is
2760 2011-01-20 22:51:32 * luke-jr notes any problems testnet has now, can potentially affect the real network too
2761 2011-01-20 22:51:32 <sipa> gavinandresen: throught software update, or through art doing his scheme?
2762 2011-01-20 22:52:05 <noagendamarket> maybe you need a test network for the test network
2763 2011-01-20 22:52:10 <noagendamarket> lol
2764 2011-01-20 22:52:20 <bitanarchy> luke-jr: I don't know what ML is, but I suppose the gov wants to know who traded what with whom... If you buy gold you also have to leave your name somewhere.
2765 2011-01-20 22:52:28 * luke-jr notes that American citizens have more guns than any military
2766 2011-01-20 22:52:34 <gavinandresen> sipa: through software update-- I'm thinking of restarting with a new genesis block and different rules for adjusting difficulty.
2767 2011-01-20 22:52:48 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2768 2011-01-20 22:52:58 <noagendamarket> probably a good idea gavin
2769 2011-01-20 22:53:04 <sipa> yes
2770 2011-01-20 22:53:20 <lyspooner> is there theoretically nothing stopping testnet coins from becoming more valuable than regular coins?
2771 2011-01-20 22:53:28 <sipa> no
2772 2011-01-20 22:53:33 <noagendamarket> not really
2773 2011-01-20 22:53:47 <gavinandresen> lyspooner: jus the threat that "we" will decide to throw them all out and start over again
2774 2011-01-20 22:53:55 <sipa> what rules are you thinking of, gavin?
2775 2011-01-20 22:54:19 <noagendamarket> can you get someone to pay you is the real question
2776 2011-01-20 22:54:24 <ineedmoney> noagendamarket: yep
2777 2011-01-20 22:54:45 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'm thinking of adjusting difficulty every 100 blocks instead of every 2016, and allowing difficulty to drop more than /4 per adjustment
2778 2011-01-20 22:54:51 <noagendamarket> I have a bridge for sale...its slightly used lol
2779 2011-01-20 22:55:29 <ineedmoney> noagendamarket: I have a shitton of shit for sail
2780 2011-01-20 22:55:36 <gavinandresen> That COULD be done with the current testnet genesis block, but the code would be uglier-- it'd be "if block is > N then use new difficulty adjustment rules"...
2781 2011-01-20 22:55:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: why not adjust difficulty downward after 2, or based on a guess of real GHash/s?
2782 2011-01-20 22:55:53 <lyspooner> gavinandresen: have testnet coins been traded for usd?
2783 2011-01-20 22:56:09 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: because that's very different from the 'real' net, and the idea is for the testnet to be mostly like the 'real' net so tests are more valid.
2784 2011-01-20 22:56:17 <nanotube> lyspooner: they have been traded for mainnet btc. which is equivalent to trading them for usd, since btc can be exchanged for usd. :)
2785 2011-01-20 22:56:31 <sipa> 100 blocks isnt much
2786 2011-01-20 22:56:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I mean, assuming these changes are applied to both networks
2787 2011-01-20 22:56:54 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: that's not going to happen, too big a change for no real benefit.
2788 2011-01-20 22:57:08 <luke-jr> when generation halves, probably a significant part of the network will stop mining
2789 2011-01-20 22:57:20 <luke-jr> and the sudden-difficulty-drop issue will hit the real net
2790 2011-01-20 22:57:42 <sipa> ok, its not with the intent of porting that to the real net
2791 2011-01-20 22:58:06 <luke-jr> why not create a NEW testnet II?
2792 2011-01-20 22:58:10 <luke-jr> use another magic
2793 2011-01-20 22:58:15 <gavinandresen> sipa: nope, the intent is just to keep the testnet usable most of the time for testing.
2794 2011-01-20 22:58:37 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: that's essentially what I'll be doing by creating a new genesis block....
2795 2011-01-20 22:58:54 <ineedmoney> gavinandresen: you sly __________
2796 2011-01-20 22:58:54 <sipa> 100 will cause quite some varistions
2797 2011-01-20 22:58:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: but if you use the same magic, it will fight the original testnet
2798 2011-01-20 22:59:19 <luke-jr> even new magic might
2799 2011-01-20 22:59:25 <gavinandresen> "fight" ? All the new blocks will be rejected by the old, and vice-versa....
2800 2011-01-20 22:59:30 <sipa> but testnet has larger variations by itself already
2801 2011-01-20 23:02:41 <gavinandresen> I wonder what bitcoin will do if it is run with an old testnet wallet full of invalid transactions....hmm...
2802 2011-01-20 23:02:45 <andrew12^mac> hmm
2803 2011-01-20 23:03:27 <lyspooner> mtgox buyer
2804 2011-01-20 23:03:37 <lyspooner> artforz *shrug*
2805 2011-01-20 23:06:53 <sipa> ;;bc,mtgox
2806 2011-01-20 23:06:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.39,"low":0.31,"vol":19862,"buy":0.338,"sell":0.395,"last":0.39}}
2807 2011-01-20 23:07:16 <bitanarchy> If a bitcoin-2 network is created with better properties, a massive exchange between networks may occur...
2808 2011-01-20 23:07:43 <andrew12^mac> bitanarchy: 'better properties'?
2809 2011-01-20 23:08:21 <andrew12^mac> I'm pretty sure it can just be integrated into the code
2810 2011-01-20 23:08:22 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2811 2011-01-20 23:08:25 <andrew12^mac> of the current one
2812 2011-01-20 23:08:27 <sipa> faster, safer, more anonymous, ...
2813 2011-01-20 23:08:50 <andrew12^mac> sipa: how would that work?
2814 2011-01-20 23:09:03 <andrew12^mac> i guess easier difficulty for less coins maybe
2815 2011-01-20 23:09:05 <sipa> if i knew, id create it
2816 2011-01-20 23:09:15 <andrew12^mac> hehe, that's true
2817 2011-01-20 23:09:32 <andrew12^mac> easier difficulty for less coins would fix a bunch of different problems
2818 2011-01-20 23:10:02 jgarzik has joined
2819 2011-01-20 23:11:13 <andrew12^mac> is the /rawtx/ stuff on blockexplorer the same as gettransaction?
2820 2011-01-20 23:11:33 <bitanarchy> andrew12: Would that require that the block generation time goes down?
2821 2011-01-20 23:11:50 <andrew12^mac> bitanarchy: I don't understand.
2822 2011-01-20 23:12:38 <sipa> lower difficulty means shorter times between blocks
2823 2011-01-20 23:12:40 <andrew12^mac> It would be less difficult to generate blocks, which meams it would be faster (i.e. 6 block verification...)
2824 2011-01-20 23:12:45 sabalaba has joined
2825 2011-01-20 23:12:46 <andrew12^mac> yes
2826 2011-01-20 23:12:51 <ineedmoney> andrew12^mac: you wouldn't
2827 2011-01-20 23:13:03 <andrew12^mac> ineedmoney: what?
2828 2011-01-20 23:13:03 <ineedmoney> sabalaba: hey there
2829 2011-01-20 23:13:41 <bitanarchy> andrew12: that would be better for fast payments, right.
2830 2011-01-20 23:14:19 TD has joined
2831 2011-01-20 23:14:21 <andrew12^mac> and of course, it'd be less difficult to generate blocks.
2832 2011-01-20 23:14:26 <andrew12^mac> at least initially :P
2833 2011-01-20 23:14:46 <andrew12^mac> wait
2834 2011-01-20 23:14:51 <andrew12^mac> then it's pretty much just like the testnet
2835 2011-01-20 23:14:59 <sipa> im thinking about a DHT system, where not everyone keeps/verifies the same transactions
2836 2011-01-20 23:15:24 <andrew12^mac> oh. then i dunno.
2837 2011-01-20 23:15:25 <sabalaba> ineedmoney, hi
2838 2011-01-20 23:15:39 <sipa> having some tx classes, and nodes randomly decide which they work on
2839 2011-01-20 23:17:02 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2840 2011-01-20 23:20:18 ineedmoney has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2841 2011-01-20 23:20:57 <andrew12> where do you have to put bitcoin.conf in windows?
2842 2011-01-20 23:21:02 <andrew12> (for rpc)
2843 2011-01-20 23:21:14 <andrew12> its %APPDATA%/Bitcoin right?
2844 2011-01-20 23:22:19 <andrew12> nvm
2845 2011-01-20 23:30:05 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2846 2011-01-20 23:34:04 andrew12^mac has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2847 2011-01-20 23:35:33 andrew12^mac has joined
2848 2011-01-20 23:35:57 <andrew12^mac> /notice andrew12 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
2849 2011-01-20 23:36:00 <andrew12^mac> er
2850 2011-01-20 23:36:04 <andrew12^mac> .-.
2851 2011-01-20 23:36:13 <puddinpop> hacim: what issues are you experiencing with the rpcminer?
2852 2011-01-20 23:36:33 <hacim> puddinpop: i can't get it to link
2853 2011-01-20 23:36:56 <hacim> hold for paste
2854 2011-01-20 23:36:56 <andrew12> is there any way to make bitcoind accept rpc requests from any IP?
2855 2011-01-20 23:37:23 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
2856 2011-01-20 23:37:23 jgarzik has joined
2857 2011-01-20 23:37:30 <puddinpop> The CMake file has two wrong paths for the RPC miners
2858 2011-01-20 23:37:53 <hacim> puddinpop: http://paste.debian.net/105201/
2859 2011-01-20 23:37:57 <gavinandresen> andrew12: -rpcallowip=*
2860 2011-01-20 23:38:04 <andrew12^mac> that's what i thought.
2861 2011-01-20 23:38:45 <andrew12^mac> but it's not working .-.
2862 2011-01-20 23:40:01 <puddinpop> You need to get rid of /remote from the paths in CUDA_SRC and OPENCL_SRC in the CMakeLists in the rpc miner CMake directory
2863 2011-01-20 23:40:23 * andrew12^mac hopes curl is just lame
2864 2011-01-20 23:40:57 <Kiba> MUhahahhaha
2865 2011-01-20 23:41:07 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2866 2011-01-20 23:41:33 tg has joined
2867 2011-01-20 23:43:19 <hacim> puddinpop: ok, i'll try
2868 2011-01-20 23:43:48 <andrew12^mac> i might write a ruby library for bitcoin if I can figure out json rpc :P
2869 2011-01-20 23:45:20 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2870 2011-01-20 23:45:23 <hacim> puddinpop: that did it!
2871 2011-01-20 23:46:12 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
2872 2011-01-20 23:47:06 <gavinandresen> andrew12: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2435.0
2873 2011-01-20 23:47:25 * jgarzik wonders what is the most-capable ATI HD card that will fit in a 1U box?
2874 2011-01-20 23:47:45 <tcatm> HD 5970?
2875 2011-01-20 23:47:55 <andrew12^mac> ooh
2876 2011-01-20 23:47:57 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: any of them?
2877 2011-01-20 23:48:11 <donpdonp> i imagine ATI was not expecting racks of 1U servers playing Halo
2878 2011-01-20 23:48:20 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: you can get 1U x16 risers that are double sided for cases that support it
2879 2011-01-20 23:48:21 jaja has joined
2880 2011-01-20 23:48:39 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: so as long as its not double wide, you're fine
2881 2011-01-20 23:49:00 HackTheGibson has joined
2882 2011-01-20 23:49:36 <HackTheGibson> develop some bitcoins!
2883 2011-01-20 23:50:26 <puddinpop> hacim: Cool. I'll have to update the download some time in the next few days.
2884 2011-01-20 23:50:38 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: actually, I think theres at least 1 case that has two full height slots next to each other on the side
2885 2011-01-20 23:50:51 <hacim> puddinpop: do you recommend using the rpcminer in general out of the different tools there?
2886 2011-01-20 23:51:08 <HackTheGibson> write your own miner!
2887 2011-01-20 23:51:13 <luke-jr> â¦
2888 2011-01-20 23:51:16 <luke-jr> HackTheGibson: I failed
2889 2011-01-20 23:51:37 <andrew12^mac> oh cool. i didn't know there was a method_missing function for ruby.
2890 2011-01-20 23:51:48 <andrew12^mac> s/function/class method/
2891 2011-01-20 23:51:52 <HackTheGibson> luke-jr: use the force
2892 2011-01-20 23:51:59 <hacim> use the source
2893 2011-01-20 23:52:12 <andrew12^mac> haha..
2894 2011-01-20 23:52:14 <puddinpop> hacim: Well if you use slush's pool you need to use one of the RPC miners
2895 2011-01-20 23:52:26 <luke-jr> HackTheGibson: I don't know how to fix it
2896 2011-01-20 23:52:28 <andrew12^mac> or else!
2897 2011-01-20 23:52:34 <puddinpop> If you do mining on your own, you could use the client's built in miner
2898 2011-01-20 23:52:46 <HackTheGibson> just get the work from the client
2899 2011-01-20 23:52:48 <HackTheGibson> and ship it back
2900 2011-01-20 23:53:02 <Diablo-D3> http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/111/SC111TQ-563U.cfm
2901 2011-01-20 23:53:05 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: ^
2902 2011-01-20 23:53:11 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: 1 5970 will fit.
2903 2011-01-20 23:53:54 <HackTheGibson> jgarzik: how about a 5850?
2904 2011-01-20 23:54:15 <andrew12^mac> grrrr
2905 2011-01-20 23:54:33 <andrew12^mac> for some reason my client isn't responding to json requests
2906 2011-01-20 23:54:38 <andrew12^mac> it just idles
2907 2011-01-20 23:54:47 <Diablo-D3> http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/118/SC118G-1400.cfm
2908 2011-01-20 23:54:48 <Diablo-D3> ooh
2909 2011-01-20 23:54:59 <Diablo-D3> that case is perfect
2910 2011-01-20 23:55:06 <jgarzik> 1440 stream processing units, versus 5970's 3200. not bad.
2911 2011-01-20 23:55:08 <Diablo-D3> it has 4 full height slots
2912 2011-01-20 23:55:22 <Diablo-D3> in pairs of two
2913 2011-01-20 23:55:26 <Diablo-D3> one on each side of the case
2914 2011-01-20 23:55:31 <Diablo-D3> and they even advertise it for gpu use
2915 2011-01-20 23:56:07 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: so your answer is 2 5970s
2916 2011-01-20 23:56:32 HackTheGibson has left ()
2917 2011-01-20 23:56:39 <hacim> what is slush's json stats url?
2918 2011-01-20 23:57:24 <sipa> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/
2919 2011-01-20 23:57:37 <hacim> thanks
2920 2011-01-20 23:58:40 <Diablo-D3> http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/818/SC818G-1400.cfm
2921 2011-01-20 23:58:51 <Diablo-D3> same case with 3x 3.5" drive slots instead of 6x 2.5" drive slots