1 2011-01-27 00:02:05 <noagendamarket> Kiba Im here
   2 2011-01-27 00:03:23 <Kiba> w00t. w00t!
   3 2011-01-27 00:05:29 Diablo-D3 has joined
   4 2011-01-27 00:06:17 <luke-jr> so if North America tries to create an "Amero", how many people will go bitcoin-only? :P
   5 2011-01-27 00:06:49 <Kiba> ?
   6 2011-01-27 00:06:52 <MartianW> Amero?
   7 2011-01-27 00:09:22 * Kiba decides on his next article
   8 2011-01-27 00:09:26 <Kiba> The Origin Of Bitcoin
   9 2011-01-27 00:09:34 <Kiba> err
  10 2011-01-27 00:09:41 <Kiba> The Godfathers of Bitcoin?
  11 2011-01-27 00:09:59 <andrew12^mac> the sex of the bitcoin
  12 2011-01-27 00:10:16 <andrew12^mac> :p
  13 2011-01-27 00:12:21 <Kiba> did anybody do an article on the history of cryptocurrency?
  14 2011-01-27 00:13:08 <MartianW> Is this an article for the Bitcoin times?
  15 2011-01-27 00:13:59 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  16 2011-01-27 00:14:54 <Kiba> yes
  17 2011-01-27 00:15:09 * Kiba wants to write an article so he can get bitcoin from the bitcoin times' magazine
  18 2011-01-27 00:15:30 skeledrew has joined
  19 2011-01-27 00:20:46 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  20 2011-01-27 00:23:18 * MartianW as well.
  21 2011-01-27 00:23:24 <MartianW> But I'm not very good at writing articles.
  22 2011-01-27 00:30:04 <Kiba> that what an editor is for
  23 2011-01-27 00:32:35 <Kiba> w00t
  24 2011-01-27 00:32:40 <Kiba> 583 btc in the bank!
  25 2011-01-27 00:32:58 * Kiba makes out like a bandit
  26 2011-01-27 00:37:18 <andrew12^mac> MONEY IN THE BANK!
  27 2011-01-27 00:38:50 noagendamarket has joined
  28 2011-01-27 00:42:38 <luke-jr> MartianW: yeah, supposedly to be like the Euro-- a single currency for Canada, USA, and Mexico
  29 2011-01-27 00:42:51 <luke-jr> Kiba: your UNLICENSE license is buggy
  30 2011-01-27 00:42:59 <Kiba> it's buggy?
  31 2011-01-27 00:43:11 <luke-jr> yeah
  32 2011-01-27 00:43:21 <luke-jr> it basically puts stuff in public domain
  33 2011-01-27 00:43:26 <Kiba> luke-jr: so?
  34 2011-01-27 00:43:33 <luke-jr> which is illegal in most jurisdictions
  35 2011-01-27 00:43:36 <Kiba> that is my intention all along
  36 2011-01-27 00:43:39 <luke-jr> so it would revert back to standard copyright
  37 2011-01-27 00:43:48 <Kiba> luke-jr: they have my middle finger then
  38 2011-01-27 00:44:08 <luke-jr> I'd add a clause stating that in such jurisdictions, you grant permission to do anything whatsoever
  39 2011-01-27 00:44:10 <luke-jr> or such
  40 2011-01-27 00:44:31 * Kiba give the middle fingers to said jurisdiction
  41 2011-01-27 00:44:36 <luke-jr> that's most
  42 2011-01-27 00:44:47 <luke-jr> in the meantime, people who live there can't use your code at all
  43 2011-01-27 00:45:02 skeledrew has joined
  44 2011-01-27 00:45:49 <Kiba> Anyone is free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or
  45 2011-01-27 00:45:49 <Kiba> distribute this software, either in source code form or as a compiled
  46 2011-01-27 00:45:49 <Kiba> binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
  47 2011-01-27 00:45:49 <Kiba> means.
  48 2011-01-27 00:45:54 <Kiba> that's good enough for me!
  49 2011-01-27 00:48:13 <Kiba> just like magick! I find more work! I hope
  50 2011-01-27 00:53:49 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  51 2011-01-27 01:06:46 Cusipzzz has joined
  52 2011-01-27 01:15:44 kermit has joined
  53 2011-01-27 01:17:45 MJD has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  54 2011-01-27 01:18:47 MJD has joined
  55 2011-01-27 01:37:11 Bth8 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  56 2011-01-27 01:38:21 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
  57 2011-01-27 01:38:36 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  58 2011-01-27 01:39:24 molecular has joined
  59 2011-01-27 01:43:34 <andrew12^mac> made a git repo for the ruby client. https://github.com/andrew12/ruby-bitcoin -- i'm going to need some help with the serialization/deserialization though
  60 2011-01-27 01:47:12 <dirtyfilthy> hmmm...
  61 2011-01-27 01:47:14 <dirtyfilthy> hang on dude
  62 2011-01-27 01:47:51 <andrew12^mac> i have ArtForz's half-node but that's python, and python does things differently
  63 2011-01-27 01:49:45 <doublec> what's a half-node?
  64 2011-01-27 01:50:39 noagendamarket has joined
  65 2011-01-27 01:52:01 <andrew12^mac> doublec: a node that's not really a complete node
  66 2011-01-27 01:52:11 <noagendamarket> wheres the best tutorial for installing bitcoin on ubuntu ?
  67 2011-01-27 01:52:16 <andrew12^mac> it doesn't just download blocks
  68 2011-01-27 01:52:19 <doublec> andrew12: how much of a node does it do?
  69 2011-01-27 01:52:21 <andrew12^mac> noagendamarket: in the readme :P
  70 2011-01-27 01:52:26 <noagendamarket> lol
  71 2011-01-27 01:52:39 <andrew12^mac> build-unix.txt
  72 2011-01-27 01:53:05 <doublec> noagendamarket: building bitcoind is easy, building bitcoin with gui is a bit trickier due to needing a newer version of wxWindows.
  73 2011-01-27 01:53:51 <noagendamarket> hmm
  74 2011-01-27 01:54:05 <andrew12^mac> doublec: it can recieve commands like transactions and blocks and stuff so you can make a simple little irc bot or something (its in use in #bitcoin-monitor
  75 2011-01-27 01:54:09 <andrew12^mac> )
  76 2011-01-27 01:54:22 <doublec> andrew12: nifty. Is the source available?
  77 2011-01-27 01:54:46 <andrew12^mac> yes its in a pastebin somewhere
  78 2011-01-27 01:54:51 <dirtyfilthy> andrew12^mac: https://github.com/dirtyfilthy/bitcoin-wallet
  79 2011-01-27 01:55:00 <dirtyfilthy> this is unfinished, untested
  80 2011-01-27 01:55:04 <dirtyfilthy> might help you
  81 2011-01-27 01:55:26 <andrew12^mac> doublec: http://pastebin.com/rMjWHnNA
  82 2011-01-27 01:55:37 <dirtyfilthy> it's in java but might me clearer
  83 2011-01-27 01:55:42 <dirtyfilthy> at least some of it works heh
  84 2011-01-27 01:55:59 <doublec> andrew12: thanks!
  85 2011-01-27 01:56:06 <andrew12^mac> dirtyfilthy: thanks
  86 2011-01-27 01:56:11 <andrew12^mac> doublec: you're welcome
  87 2011-01-27 01:56:45 <andrew12^mac> hmmm
  88 2011-01-27 01:56:55 redMBA has joined
  89 2011-01-27 01:57:01 <andrew12^mac> if i can figure out how to 'reversebytes' then i think i can do it
  90 2011-01-27 01:57:58 <noagendamarket> ooh look at that im downloading blocks lol
  91 2011-01-27 01:58:16 * noagendamarket wishes generating was that easy
  92 2011-01-27 01:59:40 <andrew12^mac> hm
  93 2011-01-27 01:59:59 <andrew12^mac> a short is 2 bytes right?
  94 2011-01-27 02:00:18 <doublec> I wonder who's node that is in the python code
  95 2011-01-27 02:00:19 <andrew12^mac> and 10000000 in little-endian is 0x8096?
  96 2011-01-27 02:00:36 <andrew12^mac> doublec: ArtForz's
  97 2011-01-27 02:02:07 <doublec> what's the 18333 port and different version check because of that port? Is it the testnet?
  98 2011-01-27 02:02:22 <andrew12^mac> doublec: where?
  99 2011-01-27 02:02:32 <doublec> andrew12: in NodeConn.__init__
 100 2011-01-27 02:02:32 <andrew12^mac> errr... that's mine
 101 2011-01-27 02:02:37 <andrew12^mac> gave you the wrong one
 102 2011-01-27 02:02:45 <andrew12^mac> i couldnt get it to work w/ testnet
 103 2011-01-27 02:03:07 <andrew12^mac> this
 104 2011-01-27 02:03:07 <andrew12^mac> http://pastebin.com/HvDffWNG
 105 2011-01-27 02:03:31 <doublec> thanks
 106 2011-01-27 02:04:18 citiz3n has joined
 107 2011-01-27 02:04:19 lfm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 108 2011-01-27 02:04:45 <citiz3n> is anyone around who could answer some basic questions about the client on windows?
 109 2011-01-27 02:04:49 lfm has joined
 110 2011-01-27 02:05:00 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: there's lots of people here ;)
 111 2011-01-27 02:05:29 <citiz3n> here goes then: im an old time (and i mean OLD time) distributed computing guy
 112 2011-01-27 02:06:21 <citiz3n> but im trying to figure out the windows client, and having some issues: starting it automatically in generate mode, running it as a service, running the daemon
 113 2011-01-27 02:06:56 <citiz3n> i have a lot of office computers that employees use.  I would love to run the client on them and let it generate all day and night, but I'd prefer not to have any GUI clickable
 114 2011-01-27 02:07:12 <andrew12^mac> you should probably run a pool for that
 115 2011-01-27 02:07:42 <andrew12^mac> also are you sure you can do that? :P
 116 2011-01-27 02:07:43 <citiz3n> im guessing that's where the clients all dump work into one location, so if any bitcoins are generated they would wind up in one place
 117 2011-01-27 02:07:51 <citiz3n> yeah, they are my computers :)
 118 2011-01-27 02:07:52 <andrew12^mac> yup
 119 2011-01-27 02:08:22 <citiz3n> i could run the server on the windows 2008 fileserver
 120 2011-01-27 02:08:34 <citiz3n> would i run bitcoin.exe in -server mode
 121 2011-01-27 02:08:40 <citiz3n> or the daemon?  what is the difference?
 122 2011-01-27 02:08:46 satamusic has joined
 123 2011-01-27 02:08:58 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: you need both
 124 2011-01-27 02:09:00 <citiz3n> normally when I think of daemon, I think of a service that doesn't have a GUI, which would be perfect for the individual crunching boxes.
 125 2011-01-27 02:09:03 <andrew12^mac> -server -daemon
 126 2011-01-27 02:09:24 <andrew12^mac> and check out http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
 127 2011-01-27 02:09:32 <citiz3n> why does the windows distro come with a daemon sub-folder and bitcoind.exe?
 128 2011-01-27 02:09:43 <citiz3n> reading it now, thanks
 129 2011-01-27 02:09:47 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: what's in the daemon folder?
 130 2011-01-27 02:09:53 <doublec> citiz3n: bitcoind.exe is what you want
 131 2011-01-27 02:09:54 <andrew12^mac> oh
 132 2011-01-27 02:09:56 <andrew12^mac> yeah
 133 2011-01-27 02:09:59 <doublec> citiz3n: it runs without a gui
 134 2011-01-27 02:10:13 <doublec> citiz3n: and you can send commands to the running daemon but running bitcoind with arguments like: bitcoind help
 135 2011-01-27 02:10:37 <citiz3n> i get a dll error when trying to run it on the box im on right now.  perhaps i needed to tell it what server to connect to?
 136 2011-01-27 02:10:47 <doublec> citiz3n: if your computers are standard PC's though you won't generate coins for many months
 137 2011-01-27 02:10:52 <andrew12^mac> that wouldn't cause a dll error.
 138 2011-01-27 02:10:57 <doublec> what is the error?
 139 2011-01-27 02:11:21 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: you can actually have the clients connect directly to the server's rpc
 140 2011-01-27 02:11:45 <citiz3n> The application failed to start because mingwm10.dll was not found
 141 2011-01-27 02:11:52 <citiz3n> re-installing the application may fix this problem
 142 2011-01-27 02:12:09 <doublec> is there a mingwm10.dll in the same directory as bitcoind.exe?
 143 2011-01-27 02:12:25 <citiz3n> there is nothing in the daemon directory with bitcoind.exe
 144 2011-01-27 02:12:29 <citiz3n> it is by itself
 145 2011-01-27 02:12:51 <doublec> is there a mingwm10.dll in any directory
 146 2011-01-27 02:13:13 <citiz3n> i tried running from command prompt as well with no luck.  i am searching for that file right now, but it's not looking good.  it's not in system32
 147 2011-01-27 02:13:29 <doublec> it should be in the .zip file containing bitcoind.exe
 148 2011-01-27 02:13:42 <citiz3n> i downloaded the .exe, but i will try the zip
 149 2011-01-27 02:13:57 <doublec> ah, right. I've only used the zip.
 150 2011-01-27 02:14:36 <citiz3n> so, the idea would be to run either bitcoin.exe OR bitcoind.exe with the -server argument
 151 2011-01-27 02:15:03 <citiz3n> and then, if i desire to run the client as a service with no GUI, etc, I would want to definitely use the daemon executable on each PC
 152 2011-01-27 02:15:07 <andrew12^mac> if you want the daemon then you need -daemon too
 153 2011-01-27 02:15:16 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: you'd not want that
 154 2011-01-27 02:15:27 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: you'd want to run a remote miner on each pc
 155 2011-01-27 02:15:31 <doublec> bitcoind is the same as 'bitcoin.exe -server -daemon'
 156 2011-01-27 02:15:50 <andrew12^mac> doublec is right
 157 2011-01-27 02:16:07 <doublec> citiz3n: if you just want to mine and you don't have many PC's I suggest using a mining pool
 158 2011-01-27 02:16:13 <doublec> citiz3n: and one of the mining clients
 159 2011-01-27 02:16:27 <doublec> citiz3n: much easier to set up and you'll get a few cents within a couple of hours
 160 2011-01-27 02:16:28 <citiz3n> there are about 10 PCs at one location
 161 2011-01-27 02:16:32 <doublec> citiz3n: vs waiting for months
 162 2011-01-27 02:16:41 <citiz3n> and 5 at another location, and i don't necessarily need them to all dump into 1 location
 163 2011-01-27 02:16:55 <citiz3n> i don't mind if each physical location is separate
 164 2011-01-27 02:17:15 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: then run bitcoind on each of them, yes
 165 2011-01-27 02:17:28 <doublec> citiz3n: if they are dual core pc's doing approximately 2,000 Khash/s then you'll only get coins on average every 45 days.
 166 2011-01-27 02:17:45 <citiz3n> and when you get coins you get 50 at a time?
 167 2011-01-27 02:17:50 <doublec> yes
 168 2011-01-27 02:17:51 <citiz3n> im totally new to this (as you must see)
 169 2011-01-27 02:18:10 <doublec> each PC mining alone (assuming 2,000 khash/s) will take 458 days on average
 170 2011-01-27 02:18:10 <citiz3n> the miner - does this require a GPU?
 171 2011-01-27 02:18:17 <andrew12^mac> no
 172 2011-01-27 02:18:21 <doublec> no, these calculations assume CPU
 173 2011-01-27 02:18:42 <citiz3n> do they impact the computer's performance at all, or can this all stay at idle priority?
 174 2011-01-27 02:19:08 <citiz3n> memory isn't an issue, although im sure these calculations use very limited memory.  I just don't want the computers lagging since they are indeed office computers used on a daily basis
 175 2011-01-27 02:19:10 <andrew12^mac> of course they do
 176 2011-01-27 02:19:18 Bth8 has joined
 177 2011-01-27 02:19:19 <citiz3n> hehe i thought so
 178 2011-01-27 02:19:45 <andrew12^mac> which is why i rarely have a miner running
 179 2011-01-27 02:19:57 <citiz3n> i could mine at night perhaps
 180 2011-01-27 02:20:55 <citiz3n> but to start simply, just for fun, i can use bitcoin.exe with the daemon switch on each computer
 181 2011-01-27 02:21:19 <doublec> citiz3n: they use 100% cpu
 182 2011-01-27 02:22:21 <citiz3n> the standard client it seems to run at idle priority and not interfere with the computer though, so i should be alright
 183 2011-01-27 02:22:57 <citiz3n> not unlike SETI, RC5, etc etc
 184 2011-01-27 02:23:33 <Diablo-D3> citiz3n: there are gpu miners for bitcoin
 185 2011-01-27 02:24:12 <andrew12^mac> you need a gpu though..
 186 2011-01-27 02:25:14 <citiz3n> i could slap some GPUs in there in the future.  but i don't feel like spending money on this just yet lol.
 187 2011-01-27 02:25:25 <citiz3n> but i would love to have the client running 24/7 on these dual core computers
 188 2011-01-27 02:25:41 <citiz3n> at least it's something
 189 2011-01-27 02:25:44 <andrew12^mac> i get 500kh/s/core on my mac
 190 2011-01-27 02:25:47 <andrew12^mac> dual core
 191 2011-01-27 02:25:55 <andrew12^mac> intel core 2 duo and stuff
 192 2011-01-27 02:26:07 <citiz3n> whoa
 193 2011-01-27 02:26:13 <citiz3n> that's just from the CPU?
 194 2011-01-27 02:26:20 <andrew12^mac> 500 isn't a lot
 195 2011-01-27 02:26:26 <citiz3n> or that's the GPU
 196 2011-01-27 02:26:30 <andrew12^mac> that's cpu
 197 2011-01-27 02:26:33 <andrew12^mac> 500 is not a lot.
 198 2011-01-27 02:26:55 <citiz3n> oh wait...
 199 2011-01-27 02:27:07 <andrew12^mac> a gpu miner will get like 50Mh/s if not more
 200 2011-01-27 02:27:38 <citiz3n> yeah i was thinking 500 Mh/s
 201 2011-01-27 02:28:03 <citiz3n> my i7 laptop gives me around 2,400 kh/s
 202 2011-01-27 02:28:11 <andrew12^mac> :(
 203 2011-01-27 02:28:15 <citiz3n> hehe
 204 2011-01-27 02:28:19 <andrew12^mac> have you generated any blocks yet? :P
 205 2011-01-27 02:28:43 <citiz3n> lol naw - wouldn't expect to in the first 24 hours - though that would be nice >:}
 206 2011-01-27 02:28:58 <andrew12^mac> it probably won't be in the first _year_
 207 2011-01-27 02:29:05 <andrew12^mac> ;;bc,calc 2400
 208 2011-01-27 02:29:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2400 Khps, given current difficulty of 18437.64439217 , is 1 year, 2 weeks, 2 days, 21 hours, 24 minutes, and 9 seconds
 209 2011-01-27 02:29:16 <citiz3n> this thing does have a geforce 280M or whatever in it
 210 2011-01-27 02:29:24 <citiz3n> but since it's a laptop...
 211 2011-01-27 02:29:33 <citiz3n> i don't think id really like to heat it up that much
 212 2011-01-27 02:29:33 <andrew12^mac> nvidia isnt that good for mining
 213 2011-01-27 02:29:54 <andrew12^mac> get an ati 6750 or whatever the hell everyone is using now
 214 2011-01-27 02:30:04 <citiz3n> it's a shame that GPUs outweigh CPUs so much in this
 215 2011-01-27 02:30:10 <andrew12^mac> 5970? i dunno
 216 2011-01-27 02:30:25 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: GPUs outweigh CPUs everywhere ;)
 217 2011-01-27 02:30:34 <andrew12^mac> well
 218 2011-01-27 02:30:46 <citiz3n> i will admit i have been out of distributed computing for a few years
 219 2011-01-27 02:30:52 <andrew12^mac> yeahh. :p
 220 2011-01-27 02:30:55 <citiz3n> but back in the day, it certainly wasn't the case
 221 2011-01-27 02:31:12 <citiz3n> depending on what kinda work you're doing - some programs used a lot of memory, some a little
 222 2011-01-27 02:31:33 <citiz3n> but it all came down to CPU, and I think I stopped doing it just when GPUs were starting to be used
 223 2011-01-27 02:31:50 <citiz3n> so i never took them seriously...but now I get into this and I'm just blown away :O
 224 2011-01-27 02:32:23 <andrew12^mac> hehe
 225 2011-01-27 02:33:18 <citiz3n> i put some BD-R discs on the forum for sale
 226 2011-01-27 02:33:26 <citiz3n> no one seems to be interested yet tho :(
 227 2011-01-27 02:33:34 <andrew12^mac> i highly doubt anyone has a burner
 228 2011-01-27 02:33:35 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 229 2011-01-27 02:33:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104785 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 46 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 hours, 25 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 21931.33858267
 230 2011-01-27 02:33:51 <citiz3n> the burners aren't that expensive really
 231 2011-01-27 02:34:00 <andrew12^mac> then sell one ;)
 232 2011-01-27 02:34:02 <luke-jr> I have a BD-R burner, but I boycott BD
 233 2011-01-27 02:34:19 <citiz3n> boycotting optical media?
 234 2011-01-27 02:34:22 * noagendamarket rocks a ps3
 235 2011-01-27 02:34:25 <citiz3n> are you george lucas?
 236 2011-01-27 02:34:31 <noagendamarket> heh
 237 2011-01-27 02:34:45 <luke-jr> citiz3n: not optical media, just BD ;)
 238 2011-01-27 02:34:50 <luke-jr> DVDs work fine
 239 2011-01-27 02:35:09 <citiz3n> if you like changing them all day and waiting for your rar's to split a million files :O
 240 2011-01-27 02:35:20 <citiz3n> i just backed up my music collection
 241 2011-01-27 02:35:25 <citiz3n> i couldn't imagine doing that on DVDR
 242 2011-01-27 02:35:35 <luke-jr> http://bluraysucks.com/
 243 2011-01-27 02:35:36 <citiz3n> it was bad enough with BD-R
 244 2011-01-27 02:35:58 <luke-jr> my newest desktop doesn't even have a DVD drive actually. I never use it
 245 2011-01-27 02:36:17 <andrew12^mac> er
 246 2011-01-27 02:36:20 <andrew12^mac> wasnt HDCP cracked?
 247 2011-01-27 02:36:28 <Kiba> cd drives and dvd drives will get eliminated in favor of usb drives!
 248 2011-01-27 02:36:34 <luke-jr> andrew12^mac: HDCP was. So they replaced it for BD.
 249 2011-01-27 02:36:40 <andrew12^mac> oh.
 250 2011-01-27 02:37:02 <citiz3n> my downloads seem to work OK ;)
 251 2011-01-27 02:37:02 <andrew12^mac> heh
 252 2011-01-27 02:37:04 <andrew12^mac> Recording Industry Ass. of America
 253 2011-01-27 02:37:52 <citiz3n> i own LOTR on Bluray, for example, but I had relatives visiting from Russia who don't speak English
 254 2011-01-27 02:38:07 <citiz3n> do i downloaded it in russian and played just fine in high def and everything
 255 2011-01-27 02:38:13 <citiz3n> DTS, everything
 256 2011-01-27 02:39:05 <andrew12^mac> I think it's sad that people need framerates over 30fps
 257 2011-01-27 02:39:15 <andrew12^mac> for movies/tv
 258 2011-01-27 02:39:17 <doublec> I did some work on LOTR. I am of course offended by your theft of the russian version. You wouldn't steal my car would you?
 259 2011-01-27 02:39:28 <andrew12^mac> YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR
 260 2011-01-27 02:39:32 <andrew12^mac> YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A HANDBAG
 261 2011-01-27 02:39:34 <noagendamarket> http://lmptfy.com/?q=lotr
 262 2011-01-27 02:39:38 <noagendamarket> hehe
 263 2011-01-27 02:39:39 <andrew12^mac> YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A DVD
 264 2011-01-27 02:39:46 <citiz3n> hahaha
 265 2011-01-27 02:40:00 <doublec> YOUR THEFT FUNDED TERRORISM
 266 2011-01-27 02:40:04 <citiz3n> id steal candy from a baby
 267 2011-01-27 02:40:25 <andrew12^mac> YOU TORRENTED THAT GAME? YOU JUST GAME AL QAEDAH $50
 268 2011-01-27 02:40:28 <noagendamarket> you wouldnt download a baby ?
 269 2011-01-27 02:40:29 <citiz3n> no, i think my purchase of hollywood blurays funded terrorism
 270 2011-01-27 02:40:40 <doublec> hahaha, probably true
 271 2011-01-27 02:40:58 <andrew12^mac> terrorism in the form of format wars
 272 2011-01-27 02:41:01 <citiz3n> hollywood pays the government, the government funds terrorism
 273 2011-01-27 02:41:04 <citiz3n> so yes
 274 2011-01-27 02:41:17 <citiz3n> sigh, i need to stop buying movies
 275 2011-01-27 02:41:30 <noagendamarket> did you see they appointed a former riaa lawyer as solicitor general ?
 276 2011-01-27 02:41:37 <Kiba> don't "pirate" people stuff
 277 2011-01-27 02:41:43 <Kiba> support copyfree writers like me!
 278 2011-01-27 02:41:49 * andrew12^mac pirates Kiba 
 279 2011-01-27 02:41:50 * noagendamarket prepares for shitstorm 
 280 2011-01-27 02:41:57 <citiz3n> ack
 281 2011-01-27 02:42:04 <noagendamarket> pirates of the Kibabean
 282 2011-01-27 02:42:10 <Kiba> noagendamarket: good.
 283 2011-01-27 02:42:15 <Kiba> it means more business for me
 284 2011-01-27 02:42:19 <Kiba> and less business for the RIAA
 285 2011-01-27 02:42:25 <Kiba> they can fuck themsleves if they wish
 286 2011-01-27 02:42:36 <Kiba> the only winners are the lawyers
 287 2011-01-27 02:42:43 <Kiba> and me of course
 288 2011-01-27 02:43:00 * andrew12^mac releases every movie he's ever seen under the WTFPL
 289 2011-01-27 02:43:39 <citiz3n> so when are the two biggest markets ever coming to bitcoin? pr0n and w4r3z
 290 2011-01-27 02:43:43 <Kiba> the nice thing about reality is that it sometime works in our favor
 291 2011-01-27 02:43:50 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: there's already porn lol
 292 2011-01-27 02:43:54 <doublec> there's pr0n markets already
 293 2011-01-27 02:43:56 <citiz3n> bitporn, really?
 294 2011-01-27 02:44:04 <andrew12^mac> http://bitcoin.org/trade
 295 2011-01-27 02:44:15 <Kiba> The MadHatter is responsible for much of the p0rn provision
 296 2011-01-27 02:44:21 <andrew12^mac> very bottom of the page
 297 2011-01-27 02:44:26 <andrew12^mac> Kiba: oh goody
 298 2011-01-27 02:44:26 <citiz3n> ohhhh lol
 299 2011-01-27 02:44:28 <Kiba> you can thanks MadHatter for his valuable service to the economy
 300 2011-01-27 02:44:33 <citiz3n> i didn't see it hiding down there before
 301 2011-01-27 02:44:46 <citiz3n> holy cow, what will they think of next
 302 2011-01-27 02:45:00 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 303 2011-01-27 02:45:01 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: http://dicks.heroku.com
 304 2011-01-27 02:45:10 <andrew12^mac> open source ascii dicks
 305 2011-01-27 02:45:11 * Kiba got two more jobs
 306 2011-01-27 02:45:22 * Kiba will now perform useful labor for noagendamarket
 307 2011-01-27 02:45:30 <citiz3n> that's a terrible ascii dick
 308 2011-01-27 02:45:32 <Kiba> I am a bit worn out though
 309 2011-01-27 02:45:42 <citiz3n> (_)_)::::::D
 310 2011-01-27 02:45:43 <andrew12^mac> citiz3n: lol
 311 2011-01-27 02:45:47 <andrew12^mac> nooo
 312 2011-01-27 02:45:51 <andrew12^mac> it's 8===============D
 313 2011-01-27 02:46:13 <citiz3n> maybe for you O_o
 314 2011-01-27 02:46:24 <andrew12^mac> wat
 315 2011-01-27 02:46:30 annodomini has joined
 316 2011-01-27 02:46:37 <citiz3n> so, since nobody wants to buy my BD-Rs
 317 2011-01-27 02:46:42 <citiz3n> that i put up there for a killer price
 318 2011-01-27 02:46:49 <andrew12^mac> I don't have a BD-R reader/burner.
 319 2011-01-27 02:46:51 <citiz3n> what's the next best way to buy some coin
 320 2011-01-27 02:47:04 <citiz3n> those coin markets seem clunky
 321 2011-01-27 02:47:05 <andrew12^mac> mtgox.com
 322 2011-01-27 02:47:23 <citiz3n> i saw they charge all these paypal fees and stuff
 323 2011-01-27 02:47:23 <andrew12^mac> there's also #bitcoin-otd
 324 2011-01-27 02:47:24 <andrew12^mac> er
 325 2011-01-27 02:47:26 <andrew12^mac> there's also #bitcoin-otc
 326 2011-01-27 02:47:28 <citiz3n> paypal send money feature is free
 327 2011-01-27 02:47:31 <andrew12^mac> uh
 328 2011-01-27 02:47:36 <andrew12^mac> paypal doesnt work with mtgox
 329 2011-01-27 02:47:45 <andrew12^mac> they got their account frozen
 330 2011-01-27 02:47:53 <citiz3n> chargebacks i assume
 331 2011-01-27 02:47:59 <citiz3n> from jerks
 332 2011-01-27 02:48:01 <andrew12^mac> yep
 333 2011-01-27 02:48:17 <citiz3n> that's lousy
 334 2011-01-27 02:51:09 <joe_1> i'm pushing for someone to do western union to bitcoin exchanges
 335 2011-01-27 02:52:47 <doublec> joe_1: how does western union work?
 336 2011-01-27 02:53:51 <joe_1> you go to the western union counter and send money to a person by providing their first and last name and the city and state they will pick it up in.
 337 2011-01-27 02:54:10 <doublec> and then they send the  bitcoin?
 338 2011-01-27 02:54:17 <joe_1> yeah
 339 2011-01-27 02:54:40 <doublec> they have western union here in NZ too - I always wondered what it was
 340 2011-01-27 02:54:58 <joe_1> but that's wu's money transfer service. western union also has money orders, which are completely anonymous like cash. You go to the counter and give money and get a money order in return. it functions like cash, you send it to the recipient who cashes it at any bank.
 341 2011-01-27 02:56:29 <dirtyfilthy> doublec: oh hey, another kiwi
 342 2011-01-27 02:56:49 <doublec> hi dirtyfilthy
 343 2011-01-27 02:56:54 <dirtyfilthy> <-- chch
 344 2011-01-27 02:57:03 <doublec> auckland here
 345 2011-01-27 02:57:08 sabalaba has joined
 346 2011-01-27 02:57:28 <doublec> there's an e-currency exchange operated from NZ that uses western union, but they don't support bitcoin: http://webmoney.co.nz/
 347 2011-01-27 02:59:06 <dirtyfilthy> yeah the whole buying liberty reserve to buy bitcoin is really off putting
 348 2011-01-27 02:59:57 lucky has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 349 2011-01-27 03:02:31 <noagendamarket> what about travelex? https://travelexmoneytransfer.com.au/
 350 2011-01-27 03:03:45 <doublec> are they like western union?
 351 2011-01-27 03:03:51 <noagendamarket> I can send money to someones credit card for $0
 352 2011-01-27 03:03:53 <noagendamarket> lol
 353 2011-01-27 03:05:57 dwdollar1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 354 2011-01-27 03:06:06 ArtForzZz has joined
 355 2011-01-27 03:08:49 <lfm> so whats the going rate for a $30 (CDN) visa giftxard number?
 356 2011-01-27 03:09:36 lucky has joined
 357 2011-01-27 03:09:51 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 358 2011-01-27 03:09:57 lucky has left ()
 359 2011-01-27 03:10:31 <doublec> lfm: 75.31btc for a $25 one apparently
 360 2011-01-27 03:10:40 <doublec> https://www.bitcoin2cc.com/
 361 2011-01-27 03:12:20 <Kiba> how about refillable credit cards?
 362 2011-01-27 03:13:30 <doublec> I don't know anyone who does that
 363 2011-01-27 03:14:16 <lfm> kiba where would you find those?
 364 2011-01-27 03:14:40 <Kiba> I don't know
 365 2011-01-27 03:14:44 <Kiba> I thought there might be one
 366 2011-01-27 03:15:40 <lfm> there is refillable tim hortons (donut shop) cards but you gotta have the card to fill it
 367 2011-01-27 03:15:50 <doublec> there's this: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2627.0
 368 2011-01-27 03:16:55 <noagendamarket> hes in the US
 369 2011-01-27 03:17:38 <doublec> webmoney.co.nz has a rechargable debit card. It might be worthwhile seeing if they'd support bitcoins as well as their other e-currencies.
 370 2011-01-27 03:17:44 <noagendamarket> I have an idea for an exchange where people can access their payout through a DEBIT CARD
 371 2011-01-27 03:18:37 <Kiba> finding jobs is rather difficult :(
 372 2011-01-27 03:19:12 <lfm> they wont support btc, we have to
 373 2011-01-27 03:20:44 <andrew12^mac> night guys
 374 2011-01-27 03:22:47 <x6763> Kiba: i think i need to find some jobs, too...sounds like it won't be easy
 375 2011-01-27 03:23:13 <Kiba> x6763: I got 4 jobs within a month
 376 2011-01-27 03:23:27 <x6763> nice
 377 2011-01-27 03:23:35 <Kiba> manages to find two prospect before my job run out with noagendamarket
 378 2011-01-27 03:23:40 <andrew12^mac> wow
 379 2011-01-27 03:23:47 <andrew12^mac> Site of AT&T-iPad hackers is hacked http://bit.ly/eAMZm9
 380 2011-01-27 03:26:51 <x6763> Kiba: what kind of jobs are you getting?
 381 2011-01-27 03:27:02 <Kiba> x6763: hmm, I got drawing, writing, and programming
 382 2011-01-27 03:27:13 <Kiba> half of the jobs are programming
 383 2011-01-27 03:27:35 <Kiba> then I got my income from advertising revenue on my own site
 384 2011-01-27 03:27:43 <Kiba> income from The Bitcoin Times
 385 2011-01-27 03:27:57 <Kiba> which by the way is 45 BTC I think
 386 2011-01-27 03:28:06 <x6763> that's really cool
 387 2011-01-27 03:28:28 <Kiba> yeah, I am making a "killing"
 388 2011-01-27 03:28:35 <Kiba> but I also have problem with pipelining me enough work
 389 2011-01-27 03:28:39 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 390 2011-01-27 03:28:43 <x6763> yeah
 391 2011-01-27 03:28:52 <Kiba> so I guess I'll use my spare cycle to do schoolworks and learn new skills
 392 2011-01-27 03:29:46 <x6763> i need to try to get some programming work...i've also got some little business ideas bouncing around in my head
 393 2011-01-27 03:30:41 echelon has joined
 394 2011-01-27 03:30:52 <echelon> anyone use kalyhost.com?
 395 2011-01-27 03:31:26 <Kiba> echelon: I believe Operation Fabulous used it
 396 2011-01-27 03:31:34 <echelon> who
 397 2011-01-27 03:31:38 <x6763> but i've been pretty preoccupied by implementing my own bitcoin client, though, so i haven't had much time to get some work or start working on any business ideas
 398 2011-01-27 03:32:31 <Kiba> Operation Fabulous, the adveriting clearinghouse for bitcoin
 399 2011-01-27 03:33:03 <echelon> i don't see any options for using bitcoins in their checkout
 400 2011-01-27 03:33:39 <Kiba> Operation Fabulous?
 401 2011-01-27 03:34:56 <joe_1> i used kalyhost
 402 2011-01-27 03:35:22 <joe_1> vps provided as agreed
 403 2011-01-27 03:36:12 <echelon> joe_1, how did you pay
 404 2011-01-27 03:36:20 <joe_1> coins
 405 2011-01-27 03:36:24 <echelon> i know
 406 2011-01-27 03:36:44 <echelon> did you arrange the payment over email?
 407 2011-01-27 03:36:56 <joe_1> im trying to remember, let me go back to the site to refresh my memory
 408 2011-01-27 03:37:03 <echelon> ok
 409 2011-01-27 03:37:25 <joe_1> i think it was automatic, but it was supposed to take 6 confirmations so i cried about it and he lowered it to 1 or 2 confirmations.
 410 2011-01-27 03:38:01 <niekie> Why is waiting for 6 confirmations so hard? :)
 411 2011-01-27 03:38:15 <joe_1> it's so painful that's 30 whole minutes and i wanted to start using my vps right away
 412 2011-01-27 03:40:16 <joe_1> the guy who runs it is mt`away. but the money goes instantly into the site. and i think the vps details are provided automatically
 413 2011-01-27 03:40:27 <joe_1> once the confirmations go through
 414 2011-01-27 03:40:56 <MT`AwAy> waiting only for 3 confirmations here
 415 2011-01-27 03:41:24 <MT`AwAy> I may lower that even more in the future
 416 2011-01-27 03:41:53 <MT`AwAy> btw for VPS I have a more updated and better looking site than kalyhost ( on http://www.autovps.net/ - user db is shared, you can login there with your kalyhost login)
 417 2011-01-27 03:43:32 <joe_1> cool
 418 2011-01-27 03:43:34 <Cusipzzz> +1 kalyhost, only good things so far in my experience
 419 2011-01-27 03:50:02 <echelon> seems to be the cheapest btc-accepting domain registrar thus far
 420 2011-01-27 03:50:09 <MT`AwAy> until now I was processing renewals manually, but they are fully automated since a few hours ago
 421 2011-01-27 03:50:28 <echelon> vjke..whatever wants $15, privacyshark wants $35 :|
 422 2011-01-27 03:50:32 <MT`AwAy> echelon, and if you ask we can even provide private whois for most domains
 423 2011-01-27 03:50:40 <echelon> wat
 424 2011-01-27 03:50:46 <echelon> i just sent an email
 425 2011-01-27 03:50:49 <MT`AwAy> (private whois is a free option)
 426 2011-01-27 03:50:58 <MT`AwAy> (can be enabled before or after purchasing)
 427 2011-01-27 03:51:03 <echelon> err.. from the contact form
 428 2011-01-27 03:51:24 <doublec> MT`AwAy: autovps accepts bitcoins?
 429 2011-01-27 03:51:29 <MT`AwAy> doublec, yep
 430 2011-01-27 03:51:38 <doublec> I don't see it on the page
 431 2011-01-27 03:51:38 <MT`AwAy> echelon, you don't need to arrange anything, just use https://www.kalyhost.com/?Currency=BTC
 432 2011-01-27 03:51:46 <MT`AwAy> doublec, use https://www.autovps.net/?Currency=BTC :)
 433 2011-01-27 03:51:55 <MT`AwAy> (or change currency on the cart page)
 434 2011-01-27 03:52:02 <doublec> oh, very nice
 435 2011-01-27 03:52:12 <doublec> I might try one of these rather than another linode
 436 2011-01-27 03:52:25 <Cusipzzz> my only complaint is i think i overpaid buying services when btc was .22 :P
 437 2011-01-27 03:52:44 <Cusipzzz> i kid, i kid
 438 2011-01-27 03:53:00 <doublec> MT`AwAy: do you run it?
 439 2011-01-27 03:53:05 <MT`AwAy> doublec, order process, vps creation, renewals, etc are all fully automated
 440 2011-01-27 03:53:08 <MT`AwAy> doublec, yep, I do
 441 2011-01-27 03:53:40 <MT`AwAy> for now I only have VPS in europe (germany) but I'll be adding USA before april, with the ability to migrate your VPS for free
 442 2011-01-27 03:53:43 <echelon> MT`AwAy, ah, thanks :)
 443 2011-01-27 03:53:51 <MT`AwAy> (only drawback of migration: your VPS ip will change)
 444 2011-01-27 03:54:31 <Cusipzzz> when you get USA, you need to have a grand opening sale imo :)
 445 2011-01-27 03:54:38 <MT`AwAy> :D
 446 2011-01-27 03:54:46 andrew12^droid has joined
 447 2011-01-27 03:54:50 <echelon> MT`AwAy, so when my order goes through can you activate the private whois?
 448 2011-01-27 03:55:09 <andrew12^droid> Droooid
 449 2011-01-27 03:55:12 <MT`AwAy> echelon, yep, or you can just tell me in private the order url (with the order= part) and I'll enable it before your order goes through
 450 2011-01-27 03:55:13 annodomini has quit (Quit: annodomini)
 451 2011-01-27 03:55:28 <echelon> ok, thanks
 452 2011-01-27 03:57:03 <andrew12^droid> ;;bc,mtgox
 453 2011-01-27 03:57:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.42,"low":0.3904,"vol":12919,"buy":0.4089,"sell":0.41,"last":0.4089}}
 454 2011-01-27 03:58:58 <MT`AwAy> echelon, in fact I see an order, I'll enable the option on it
 455 2011-01-27 03:59:08 <echelon> ah, thanks :)
 456 2011-01-27 03:59:37 <MT`AwAy> done :)
 457 2011-01-27 03:59:43 <MT`AwAy> if you complete the order, the whois will be hidden
 458 2011-01-27 03:59:47 <echelon> ^_^
 459 2011-01-27 03:59:50 <andrew12^droid> :) :) :)
 460 2011-01-27 03:59:56 <echelon> where's that bitcoin launder site again?
 461 2011-01-27 04:00:12 <doublec> it's called 'mtgox'
 462 2011-01-27 04:00:18 <doublec> or 'mybitcoin'
 463 2011-01-27 04:00:25 <Cusipzzz> or btcsportsbet.com dmit
 464 2011-01-27 04:00:28 <doublec> I doubt any other site gets enough traffic to launder
 465 2011-01-27 04:00:29 <Cusipzzz> :)
 466 2011-01-27 04:01:26 <Cusipzzz> only need a few mixes and diff quantities and it's laundered..don;t need a special service
 467 2011-01-27 04:01:42 <echelon> MT`AwAy, you run bitcoinlaundry.com?
 468 2011-01-27 04:02:44 <MT`AwAy> no
 469 2011-01-27 04:02:54 <echelon> oh kk
 470 2011-01-27 04:03:21 <MT`AwAy> I was planning to make one
 471 2011-01-27 04:03:44 <MT`AwAy> that would use curl and get the funds go through mybitcoin/mtgox/etc after random splits and merges
 472 2011-01-27 04:05:03 <MT`AwAy> you'd choose the laudry time (for example 7 days) and the target addresses with amount for each address, and moves would be created randomly at random times and using random services, taking a specific fee per laundry day
 473 2011-01-27 04:05:26 <echelon> and who operates bitcoinmarket?
 474 2011-01-27 04:08:09 <noagendamarket> your mum
 475 2011-01-27 04:08:16 <andrew12^droid> Heh
 476 2011-01-27 04:08:30 <Kiba> dwollar
 477 2011-01-27 04:08:56 <joe_1> there's also cashcow casino
 478 2011-01-27 04:09:26 <doublec> joe_1: what volume of btc turnover does cashcow see in a day?
 479 2011-01-27 04:09:39 <joe_1> as of this week very low
 480 2011-01-27 04:09:45 <joe_1> about 20 coins maybe
 481 2011-01-27 04:09:46 <doublec> and more importantly, are you making money of it?
 482 2011-01-27 04:09:56 <Kiba> cashcow?
 483 2011-01-27 04:10:08 <joe_1> i had a month back around october where we had 500-1000 coins a day
 484 2011-01-27 04:10:08 <doublec> Kiba: the bitcoin roulette game
 485 2011-01-27 04:10:26 <Kiba> so joe_1 is getting rich off his roulette game
 486 2011-01-27 04:11:38 <Kiba> 20 BTC a day..that's some bitcoin for y
 487 2011-01-27 04:11:40 <Kiba> a
 488 2011-01-27 04:12:00 <andrew12^droid> "Rich" is arguable
 489 2011-01-27 04:12:11 <Kiba> 20 * 7 is 140 BTC a week
 490 2011-01-27 04:12:19 <joe_1> i've been procrastinating on doing upgrades to the site
 491 2011-01-27 04:12:37 <andrew12^droid> Kiba: how much money would you get from working at McDonalds?
 492 2011-01-27 04:12:51 <Kiba> andrew12^droid: more, but then you have to put into more effort
 493 2011-01-27 04:12:57 <Kiba> where as joe_1 just laze around
 494 2011-01-27 04:13:03 <andrew12^droid> Still
 495 2011-01-27 04:13:18 <andrew12^droid> 140BTC isn't enough to live off of
 496 2011-01-27 04:13:31 <joe_1> in a couple years, 140BTC will be enough to retire on
 497 2011-01-27 04:13:36 <andrew12^droid> Heh
 498 2011-01-27 04:13:39 <andrew12^droid> This is true
 499 2011-01-27 04:13:42 <Kiba> if we didn't get TOTAL FAIL
 500 2011-01-27 04:14:13 <doublec> the risk is someone could get lucky and win 1000 btc in a day
 501 2011-01-27 04:14:14 <Kiba> however, it depend on mind over matter
 502 2011-01-27 04:14:20 <doublec> losing you 10 weeks of profit
 503 2011-01-27 04:14:20 <joe_1> oh, it's happened
 504 2011-01-27 04:14:29 <Kiba> are you shrew enough to avoid...spending all your money until that day come
 505 2011-01-27 04:14:30 <andrew12^droid> Hmm
 506 2011-01-27 04:15:18 <andrew12^droid> It'd be interesting if as an experiment there was another bitcoin network where the block winnings doubled instead of halved
 507 2011-01-27 04:15:26 <joe_1> we've had several payoffs over 5000
 508 2011-01-27 04:16:25 <andrew12^droid> Maybe have it be every week instead of 4 years as an experiment
 509 2011-01-27 04:16:48 <Kiba> I am sure people will realize the currency's worthlessness
 510 2011-01-27 04:16:53 <noagendamarket> its called the federal reserve andrew
 511 2011-01-27 04:17:03 <andrew12^droid> Lol
 512 2011-01-27 04:17:23 <Diablo-D3> "What is a pyramid scheme supported by the Federal Government?"
 513 2011-01-27 04:17:26 <Kiba> but the federal reserve is backed by several trillion dollars worth of services and goods
 514 2011-01-27 04:17:37 <andrew12^droid> Hahaha Diablo
 515 2011-01-27 04:18:57 <joe_1> well, the federal reserve is backed primarily by gold
 516 2011-01-27 04:19:19 <Diablo-D3> no its not
 517 2011-01-27 04:19:24 <Kiba> Fort Knox?
 518 2011-01-27 04:19:25 <Diablo-D3> the federal reserve is not backed by anything
 519 2011-01-27 04:19:26 <andrew12^droid> My popcorn bags are backed by gold
 520 2011-01-27 04:19:40 <Diablo-D3> it's balance sheets are fraudulent
 521 2011-01-27 04:19:47 <joe_1> oh
 522 2011-01-27 04:19:50 <Diablo-D3> and they have been loaning money to major banks and foreign countries illegally
 523 2011-01-27 04:20:06 <Diablo-D3> the federal reserve is NOT part of the government, and is a lie supported by those who are rich
 524 2011-01-27 04:20:28 <Kiba> do you hate rich people, Diablo-D3?
 525 2011-01-27 04:20:39 <Diablo-D3> only the ones who think I'm one of their slaves.
 526 2011-01-27 04:20:43 <andrew12^droid> The great derpression
 527 2011-01-27 04:21:08 <andrew12^droid> Note the "derp"
 528 2011-01-27 04:21:27 <joe_1> so, where does the gold figure on the balance sheet come from?
 529 2011-01-27 04:21:35 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: it doesnt.
 530 2011-01-27 04:21:54 <Diablo-D3> the only gold in the US that is money atm are either in private hands, or in the vaults of the big 5 banks
 531 2011-01-27 04:22:03 <Diablo-D3> it does not belong to "the people" or the Government
 532 2011-01-27 04:22:32 <joe_1> i agree theres gold in the big 5, but what about fort knox gold?
 533 2011-01-27 04:22:41 <Diablo-D3> what about it? there isnt any.
 534 2011-01-27 04:23:02 <Diablo-D3> Congress continually refuses independent audits of the Government gold supply.
 535 2011-01-27 04:23:15 <Diablo-D3> This can only mean that there is no gold left in the reserves.
 536 2011-01-27 04:23:19 <joe_1> yeah, i heard about that
 537 2011-01-27 04:23:36 <Diablo-D3> There are many trustworthy agencies that audit gold supplies often
 538 2011-01-27 04:23:42 <doublec> we've had this 'backed  by gold' discussion before. It didn't end well.
 539 2011-01-27 04:23:48 <Diablo-D3> doublec: well
 540 2011-01-27 04:23:53 <Diablo-D3> backed by gold itself is meaningless
 541 2011-01-27 04:23:59 <Diablo-D3> the USD has not been backed by gold since the nixon days
 542 2011-01-27 04:24:43 <joe_1> well diablo agrees the number is on the balance sheet but saying the reason it's not backed by gold is because they took the gold away without anyone knowing
 543 2011-01-27 04:24:43 <doublec> I know but it's one of those touchy "channel descends into arguments" subjects
 544 2011-01-27 04:24:46 * andrew12^droid attaches gold to his back
 545 2011-01-27 04:25:13 <andrew12^droid> What does "backed by gold" even mean?
 546 2011-01-27 04:25:50 <OneFixt> Does the RPC "move" command send anything out to the network, or is it entirely local?
 547 2011-01-27 04:25:50 <joe_1> it means that people have an understanding that gold will be kept, and not used as collateral.
 548 2011-01-27 04:26:34 <andrew12^droid> Why not just trade gold? :p
 549 2011-01-27 04:26:52 <joe_1> because the u.s. government mounts a pyramid of debt on top of the gold base
 550 2011-01-27 04:26:55 <Kiba> when we mind asteroid for gold, gold will finally cease as money
 551 2011-01-27 04:27:20 <Kiba> but then we all be frickly filthy rich!
 552 2011-01-27 04:27:54 <andrew12^droid> Well in theory if you get a ton of hydrogens and smash them together, you'll get gold
 553 2011-01-27 04:28:21 * andrew12^droid sells 1 gold atom
 554 2011-01-27 04:29:08 <andrew12^droid> Hmm... is there a way to know how much USD is in circulation?
 555 2011-01-27 04:29:54 <joe_1> you can probably start out on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve and start looking around for money supply figures there
 556 2011-01-27 04:31:11 <Kiba> ya know, we're mostly made up empty space
 557 2011-01-27 04:31:29 <andrew12^droid> Huh?
 558 2011-01-27 04:34:37 * noagendamarket wonders when the gold is discovered to be only painted tungsten bars
 559 2011-01-27 04:35:13 <andrew12^droid> The gold is made of parchment
 560 2011-01-27 04:35:25 yoyoyo_ has joined
 561 2011-01-27 04:35:27 <andrew12^droid> Dolla dolla billz y'all
 562 2011-01-27 04:38:21 <joe_1> yeah
 563 2011-01-27 04:38:29 <noagendamarket> someone needs to do an app for the iphone called "airbitcoin"  to enable cash in person trading tl;dr airbnb
 564 2011-01-27 04:38:36 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 565 2011-01-27 04:38:39 <noagendamarket> lol
 566 2011-01-27 04:39:17 <andrew12^droid> Wat.
 567 2011-01-27 04:45:00 yoyoyo_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 568 2011-01-27 04:46:47 <andrew12^droid> Diablo-D3: Do you still think I'm a troll?
 569 2011-01-27 04:47:56 <noagendamarket> http://video.twitterwall.me/19930937/bitcoin    the bitcoin wall  :)
 570 2011-01-27 04:49:15 <Xunie> niekie, you not can has ops
 571 2011-01-27 04:49:20 <niekie> :(
 572 2011-01-27 04:49:23 <Xunie> D:
 573 2011-01-27 04:49:24 <niekie> :D
 574 2011-01-27 04:49:26 <Xunie> :D
 575 2011-01-27 04:49:37 * Xunie holds up fist, "BROFIST"
 576 2011-01-27 04:49:59 <noagendamarket> heh
 577 2011-01-27 04:55:46 * andrew12^droid sets mode: +o andrew12^droid
 578 2011-01-27 04:56:45 <niekie> Nice try :)
 579 2011-01-27 04:57:14 <joe_1> man i miss the old efnet days
 580 2011-01-27 04:57:53 <andrew12^droid> efnet still exists
 581 2011-01-27 04:58:44 <Diablo-D3> andrew12^droid: if you're going to ask that? yes
 582 2011-01-27 04:59:31 <andrew12^droid> k
 583 2011-01-27 05:03:29 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I miss the days when I was an oper on efnet
 584 2011-01-27 05:03:36 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Oh wait
 585 2011-01-27 05:03:58 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|mutters something about dreams
 586 2011-01-27 05:04:48 <andrew12^droid> I miss the days when I invented IRC
 587 2011-01-27 05:05:14 <andrew12^droid> Oh wait
 588 2011-01-27 05:05:22 * andrew12^droid mutters something about dreams
 589 2011-01-27 05:05:37 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|started a new meme
 590 2011-01-27 05:05:53 <Diablo-D3> I dont miss the days I was an oper on efnet
 591 2011-01-27 05:08:25 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 592 2011-01-27 05:09:53 * noagendamarket is a vampire and misses the days
 593 2011-01-27 05:11:42 <Kiba> look like it time for me to go to sleep
 594 2011-01-27 05:16:06 <joe_1> x6763
 595 2011-01-27 05:16:40 <x6763> joe_1: hi
 596 2011-01-27 05:17:16 <joe_1> hey did u say u completed a bitcoin client
 597 2011-01-27 05:17:29 <joe_1> or a miner
 598 2011-01-27 05:18:07 <x6763> joe_1: no, i haven't completed one...i'm in the middle of writing one
 599 2011-01-27 05:18:34 <andrew12^droid> In what language?
 600 2011-01-27 05:18:40 <x6763> Clojure
 601 2011-01-27 05:18:47 <andrew12^droid> Nice
 602 2011-01-27 05:18:55 <Diablo-D3> why that?
 603 2011-01-27 05:20:03 <x6763> well, because i like it and it's what i've been using lately, and i figured it would go quicker than attempting to use a less familiar object oriented language
 604 2011-01-27 05:20:22 <Diablo-D3> you mean like Java?
 605 2011-01-27 05:21:02 <x6763> Java, C++, or even python (I've used python a bit, but I'm far more comfortable with clojure these days)
 606 2011-01-27 05:22:52 <x6763> i'm writing a client as a way to learn how bitcoin works at a very low level, since i want to create a decentralized dns...i figured writing it would be easier than just digging around the official client's code and allow me to learn it faster
 607 2011-01-27 05:23:14 <Kiba> what you're writing it in?
 608 2011-01-27 05:23:28 <Kiba> clojure?
 609 2011-01-27 05:23:32 <Kiba> nice
 610 2011-01-27 05:23:49 <x6763> i like it a lot
 611 2011-01-27 05:24:25 <andrew12^droid> New difficulty in 20 blocks
 612 2011-01-27 05:24:42 <andrew12^droid> ;;bc,stats
 613 2011-01-27 05:24:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104811 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 20 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 48 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 21999.52752436
 614 2011-01-27 05:25:48 <joe_1> which scheme of bitdns are you going to use
 615 2011-01-27 05:25:59 <joe_1> it's the subject of a huge heated debate
 616 2011-01-27 05:26:36 <Kiba> I tell them that time is of the essence and then they totally ignore me
 617 2011-01-27 05:26:53 <joe_1> we're waiting on satoshi to give us the mathematical details on a scheme that allows miners to generate blocks on multiple chains simultaneously
 618 2011-01-27 05:27:14 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 619 2011-01-27 05:27:31 <Kiba> anyway
 620 2011-01-27 05:27:32 <Kiba> good night
 621 2011-01-27 05:27:41 <Kiba> noagendamarket: I'll just give you a brief update instead
 622 2011-01-27 05:28:05 <Kiba> noagendamarket: I finally fixed the layout problem causing the content not look right
 623 2011-01-27 05:28:44 <Kiba> noagendamarket: but not much work was done today because of the delay in payment
 624 2011-01-27 05:29:49 <x6763> well, i'm not real familiar with all the different ideas out there, so i can't say exactly how mine is similar or different, but in general, my plans are to use a bitcoin-like protocol to allow people to purchase domain names (something like the hash of the domain name and the owner's public key and a signature stored in transaction, and transaction fees are paid to the block generator), and the actual DNS information will be stored in a DHT, signed by
 625 2011-01-27 05:31:10 <nanotube> x6763: have you seen http://privwiki.dreamhosters.com/wiki/Bitcoin_DNS_System_Proposal
 626 2011-01-27 05:31:22 <x6763> satoshi doesn't really want dns in the main bitcoin block chain, so i'll end up creating a separate chain with it's own currency for all of this...i'm still kind of toying with the BitX idea that's on the forum someplace, too, but i haven't made any final decisions on that yet...i'm just trying to get a fully functional client to base this stuff on first
 627 2011-01-27 05:31:47 <Kiba> tomorrow is ART SMASH DAY!
 628 2011-01-27 05:31:47 <x6763> nanotube: yeah, i've looked at it a little bit before
 629 2011-01-27 05:31:54 <Kiba> err
 630 2011-01-27 05:31:59 <Kiba> PROJECT SMASHING DAY
 631 2011-01-27 05:32:30 <nanotube> x6763: yea in the long term, bitx seems like the way to go. if the implementation problems can be worked out.
 632 2011-01-27 05:32:53 <andrew12^droid> Bitx?
 633 2011-01-27 05:33:12 <nanotube> would be especially nice if we can 'glom onto' the existing bitcoin chain. essentially incorporate the chain into bitx... guess it would require the majority of mainnet bitcoin clients to upgrade...
 634 2011-01-27 05:33:17 <nanotube> andrew12^droid: search the forums.
 635 2011-01-27 05:33:42 <nanotube> it's a proposal to have one metachain that incorporates by reference any arbitrary number of chains.
 636 2011-01-27 05:33:46 <tcatm> why not bind a second chain to the bitcoin blockchain as satoshi suggested?
 637 2011-01-27 05:34:13 <andrew12^droid> Satoshi should come in IRC :P
 638 2011-01-27 05:34:24 <Kiba> Satoshi is a rather private person
 639 2011-01-27 05:34:32 <x6763> satoshi hasn't even been on the forums in over a month
 640 2011-01-27 05:34:37 <andrew12^droid> I noticed
 641 2011-01-27 05:35:23 <Kiba> he's alive
 642 2011-01-27 05:35:26 <joe_1> is he back on the forums yet
 643 2011-01-27 05:35:29 <Kiba> or so gavin assured us
 644 2011-01-27 05:36:08 <joe_1> oh, cause gavin and satoshi are college buddies or something?
 645 2011-01-27 05:36:15 <Kiba> I don't know
 646 2011-01-27 05:36:54 <andrew12^droid> They email.
 647 2011-01-27 05:37:46 <joe_1> maybe he's nervous about how big the project is
 648 2011-01-27 05:37:55 <nanotube> tcatm: well, or that. either way, most clients would have to upgrade.
 649 2011-01-27 05:38:19 <nanotube> otherwise, there's nowhere to stick references to sidechains
 650 2011-01-27 05:39:37 <Diablo-D3> satoshi probably never existed
 651 2011-01-27 05:39:41 <tcatm> hm no? for satoshi's idea there'd be no need upgrade bitcoin
 652 2011-01-27 05:39:54 <andrew12^droid> New SERVICES in version command?
 653 2011-01-27 05:39:55 <Diablo-D3> hes really just an anonymous collective
 654 2011-01-27 05:39:56 <andrew12^droid> :P
 655 2011-01-27 05:40:12 <nanotube> tcatm: mm point me to what exactly you're talking about pls? :)
 656 2011-01-27 05:40:13 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 657 2011-01-27 05:40:33 <andrew12^droid> Diablo-D3: as far as we know, satoshi is in this very room!
 658 2011-01-27 05:40:57 <andrew12^droid> "He could be you, he could be me! He could even be *boom*"
 659 2011-01-27 05:41:13 <nanotube> yea, i bet gribble is really a front for satoshi.
 660 2011-01-27 05:41:14 <andrew12^droid> </meet the spy>
 661 2011-01-27 05:41:15 <nanotube> heh
 662 2011-01-27 05:41:32 <andrew12^droid> nanotube is secretly Satoshi!
 663 2011-01-27 05:41:34 <andrew12^droid> :O
 664 2011-01-27 05:41:41 <Diablo-D3> "What? It was obvious he was the red spy! Look, hes turning red now!" "I think thats just blood"
 665 2011-01-27 05:41:48 <nanotube> heh
 666 2011-01-27 05:42:28 <andrew12^droid> We're all half of satoshi
 667 2011-01-27 05:42:29 <andrew12^droid> :p
 668 2011-01-27 05:42:42 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 669 2011-01-27 05:45:45 <andrew12^droid> New diff in 17 blocks
 670 2011-01-27 05:45:47 <tcatm> nanotube: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.msg28696#msg28696
 671 2011-01-27 05:47:15 <nanotube> tcatm: mm yea i don't get how that'd actually work... you can't have one sha hash solving both blocks, if they contain different data. well, you can, but it's extremely unlikely.
 672 2011-01-27 05:47:32 <nanotube> i get the 'two separate chains' bit, but i don't get how they'd 'share cpu power'
 673 2011-01-27 05:48:10 <andrew12^droid> Just use the same nonce on both? (Just a guess)
 674 2011-01-27 05:49:11 <nanotube> tcatm: he has responded further down in that thread: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.msg28715#msg28715
 675 2011-01-27 05:49:29 <nanotube> but i still don't get how that would result in 'sharing of cpu power' rather than just splitting cpu power between the networks.
 676 2011-01-27 05:49:52 <nanotube> andrew12^droid: nonce incrementation takes one operation. it's the hashing that's expensive....
 677 2011-01-27 05:50:13 <nanotube> hashing two blocks with the same nonce, vs hashing two blocks with different nonces - it's the same amount of work. namely, twice the work of hashing one block.
 678 2011-01-27 05:50:19 <andrew12^droid> Yeah, I figured that out after I said that 'p
 679 2011-01-27 05:50:22 <andrew12^droid> :p*
 680 2011-01-27 05:50:39 <nanotube> heh
 681 2011-01-27 05:50:59 <andrew12^droid> It wouldn't work because of the previous block being in the hash
 682 2011-01-27 05:51:08 <nanotube> i'm very interested in this idea, i just don't get the mechanics that would allow us to (a) make no changes to mainnet, and (b) share cpu power between chains.
 683 2011-01-27 05:51:43 <tcatm> I think satoshi talks about a merkle tree with two branches. One for bitcoin and one for bitdata
 684 2011-01-27 05:51:57 <andrew12^droid> Hm
 685 2011-01-27 05:52:09 <nanotube> yes but wouldn't mainnet reject a merkle tree that is composed of stuff other than valid bitcoin transactions?
 686 2011-01-27 05:52:19 <nanotube> so it wouldn't be possible to incorporate the bitdns stuff into the mainnet merkle tree
 687 2011-01-27 05:52:35 <x6763> i will talk to you guys later
 688 2011-01-27 05:52:37 <nanotube> without upgrading the installbase of the mainnet clients.
 689 2011-01-27 05:52:40 <nanotube> ttyl x6763
 690 2011-01-27 05:52:40 <tcatm> No, you don't incorporate it "somewhere" into the merkle tree
 691 2011-01-27 05:53:08 <tcatm> You take the merkle hash in current getwork from bitcoin and the merkle hash from bitdata and use both to make a new top hash
 692 2011-01-27 05:53:30 <nanotube> yes and?
 693 2011-01-27 05:53:36 <nanotube> where does this new tophash go?
 694 2011-01-27 05:53:46 <tcatm> Into both chains
 695 2011-01-27 05:54:09 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 696 2011-01-27 05:54:19 <tcatm> payload of the block can then differ and bitcoin and bitdata would choose the correct branch for their payload
 697 2011-01-27 05:54:55 <andrew12^droid> Has satoshi ever actually used the alert command?
 698 2011-01-27 05:55:10 <andrew12^droid> Heh
 699 2011-01-27 05:55:45 <nanotube> maybe i'm missing something, tcatm but my understanding is that a valid bitcoin block is sha(sha(previous block, merkle tree of transactions included in block)) essentially. so... where is there room for the extra stuff?
 700 2011-01-27 05:55:50 <nanotube> to still have a valid block?
 701 2011-01-27 05:56:31 <nanotube> or are you saying that the bitdata stuff would not be anywhere in the mainnet block?
 702 2011-01-27 05:56:32 <tcatm> If I understood it right, both blockchains would have same hashes
 703 2011-01-27 05:56:41 <nanotube> how is that possible?
 704 2011-01-27 05:56:54 <nanotube> you can't include bitdata tx into the mainnet...
 705 2011-01-27 05:56:59 <tcatm> We're not hashing the payload, only the merkle hash
 706 2011-01-27 05:57:17 <tcatm> So all that needs to be in both chains is the merkle hash of the other chain (32 bytes)
 707 2011-01-27 05:57:20 <nanotube> yes but the merkle tree is essentially a recursive hash of valid bitcoin transactions.
 708 2011-01-27 05:57:31 <nanotube> you can't just make a random merkle hash of random crap
 709 2011-01-27 05:57:36 <nanotube> the client won't allow that.
 710 2011-01-27 05:58:00 <nanotube> to mainnet, the merkle hash of the other chain is "random crap"
 711 2011-01-27 05:58:11 <nanotube> and a block containing it would be rejected as invalid.
 712 2011-01-27 05:58:25 <tcatm> Not if they know about the merkle hash of bitdata and can include that into calculating the hash
 713 2011-01-27 05:58:38 <nanotube> which means... mainnet client needs upgrade
 714 2011-01-27 05:58:44 <nanotube> yes?
 715 2011-01-27 05:59:29 <tcatm> a very small upgrade. Maybe satoshi had a slighty different idea to avoid that
 716 2011-01-27 06:00:56 <nanotube> right my basic point was... upgrade required. :)
 717 2011-01-27 06:01:08 <nanotube> regardless of how small or large it is, it still needs to be accepted by most of the network in order to succeed
 718 2011-01-27 06:01:18 <nanotube> which means, if it is going to be made, it's best to make it sooner rather than later.
 719 2011-01-27 06:01:24 citiz3n has quit ()
 720 2011-01-27 06:02:01 * andrew12^droid strongly thinks binary protocols are lame :(
 721 2011-01-27 06:02:29 <tcatm> well bitcoin allows for branches of the merkle tree to be compacted and stubbed off (see paper). Maybe that can already be used for bitdata?
 722 2011-01-27 06:02:53 <tcatm> bitcoin.pdf page 4
 723 2011-01-27 06:03:02 <nanotube> mmm interesting. maybe.
 724 2011-01-27 06:03:24 <tcatm> So Hash01 could be the bitdata merkle hash
 725 2011-01-27 06:03:30 <joe_1> i'll have to get a few drinks in me and sit down and look at the pdf again.
 726 2011-01-27 06:03:44 <andrew12^droid> 14 blocks to next retarget
 727 2011-01-27 06:04:13 <joe_1> but the explanation that tcatm (satoshi?) just gave made sense.
 728 2011-01-27 06:04:18 <tcatm> Of course, miners would need to upgrade so support solving for two difficulites
 729 2011-01-27 06:04:22 <nanotube> but even so, i'm not sure how the 'sharing of cpu power' will take place. if you want to make a mainnet block, you have to work on the mainnet block, which includes the bitdata hash and the mainnet transactions... if you want a bitdata block, you work on a block that includes the mainnet hash and the bitdata transactions...
 730 2011-01-27 06:04:57 <nanotube> mm i guess if they're side by side branches of the tree
 731 2011-01-27 06:04:59 <nanotube> it would be the same data
 732 2011-01-27 06:05:04 <nanotube> for the final hash
 733 2011-01-27 06:05:11 <tcatm> Yep that's the whole point
 734 2011-01-27 06:05:15 * andrew12^droid grows a tree
 735 2011-01-27 06:05:44 <tcatm> The blockheader that is hashed is exactly the same so even prevhash would be the same for both chains
 736 2011-01-27 06:06:41 <nanotube> so essentially, the only difference between the chains is whether the mainnet tx , or the bitdata tx, are included in full
 737 2011-01-27 06:06:53 <tcatm> yep
 738 2011-01-27 06:07:09 <nanotube> and a mainnet client that is not upgraded and generates a block without bitdata, would not screw anything up, the bitdata chain would just skip that block
 739 2011-01-27 06:07:19 <tcatm> Yep
 740 2011-01-27 06:07:38 <joe_1> miners on both networks would have to work to confirm that the hash of the other chain was correct
 741 2011-01-27 06:07:40 * nanotube appears to have arrived at an understanding. :) thanks tcatm :)
 742 2011-01-27 06:07:53 <tcatm> Well no, bitdata would still store the blockheader in blkindex.dat
 743 2011-01-27 06:09:16 <tcatm> But that's just like a bitcoin client that sees a block with only a 50 BTC coinbase TX. He wouldn't need to store that payload either
 744 2011-01-27 06:09:49 <nanotube> tcatm: well, they'd both have to verify, though, because if bitdata doesn't know about valid mainnet tx, then it can't be sure that it's working on a valid chain.
 745 2011-01-27 06:10:03 <nanotube> e.g., if it gets sent a bogus mainnet tx, it needs to be able to verify that it's bogus
 746 2011-01-27 06:10:30 <nanotube> otherwise the bitdata miner will include bogus tx in block, and it'd be rejected by mainnet, and we have weird splits happening.
 747 2011-01-27 06:10:42 <tcatm> mhm no. bitdata wouldn't care about mainnet tx
 748 2011-01-27 06:10:44 <nanotube> so it seems that miners would need to be able to verify both.
 749 2011-01-27 06:11:05 <nanotube> tcatm: but doesn't bitdata include mainnet tx merkle tree head?
 750 2011-01-27 06:11:15 <tcatm> bitdata would rely on being passed a valid getwork request (= block header) from bitcoin
 751 2011-01-27 06:11:20 <tcatm> yes it does
 752 2011-01-27 06:11:58 <nanotube> say a rogue bitdata miner, creates a block that contains bogus mainnet tx
 753 2011-01-27 06:12:12 <nanotube> all the mainnet clients will be able to know that it's a bogus block and reject it
 754 2011-01-27 06:12:13 <tcatm> => chain split and re-org
 755 2011-01-27 06:12:22 <tcatm> that split will affect both chains
 756 2011-01-27 06:12:28 <nanotube> but the bitdata clients will not be able to verify that, if the have no information.
 757 2011-01-27 06:12:55 <nanotube> tcatm: well, say there are more people caring about mainnet than bitdata?
 758 2011-01-27 06:13:10 <nanotube> that means that even if bitdata rejects a block as invalid due to bogus bitdata tx
 759 2011-01-27 06:13:23 <nanotube> the mainnet will still overtake whatever bitdata produces in a fork
 760 2011-01-27 06:13:30 <nanotube> so the two chains will split and never join
 761 2011-01-27 06:13:58 <nanotube> or i guess not
 762 2011-01-27 06:14:07 <nanotube> it'll have to reorg and glom onto the longer chain
 763 2011-01-27 06:14:11 <tcatm> yep
 764 2011-01-27 06:14:20 <tcatm> they'd still share the blockheaders
 765 2011-01-27 06:14:35 <nanotube> it'll just be vulnerable to frequent reorgs if there are bogus-tx-insert attacks.
 766 2011-01-27 06:14:48 <tcatm> of course, if there are less bitdata+bitcoin miners than bitcoin miners bitdata tx will take longer to make it into the chain
 767 2011-01-27 06:15:00 <tcatm> same for bitcoin tx ;)
 768 2011-01-27 06:15:11 <nanotube> right
 769 2011-01-27 06:15:47 <nanotube> but still, essentially, what that means is that for the purposes of securing the network, the cpu power is not shared, but rather is split.
 770 2011-01-27 06:16:05 <nanotube> to overtake the bitdata chain, you only need >50% of bitdata hashing power. not >50% of total
 771 2011-01-27 06:16:16 <nanotube> same goes for the mainnet side
 772 2011-01-27 06:16:29 <nanotube> so... it seems we have not accomplished the "sharing of cpu power" bit.
 773 2011-01-27 06:16:35 <nanotube> unless all miners verify both chains.
 774 2011-01-27 06:17:00 <tcatm> yes, but miners could work for both chains without much change and without having to more work than before
 775 2011-01-27 06:17:34 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 776 2011-01-27 06:17:35 <nanotube> well, miners, and also clients. because clients need to verify which block fork is 'correct'
 777 2011-01-27 06:17:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104818 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 13 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 48 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 22016.10498257
 778 2011-01-27 06:17:49 <nanotube> thus... we'd need more severe upgrades to the client.
 779 2011-01-27 06:18:07 <tcatm> you'd have two clients. one for bitcoin and one for bitdata
 780 2011-01-27 06:18:19 <tcatm> they could even work on different ports and only share blockheaders
 781 2011-01-27 06:18:34 <tcatm> they could even use a completely different protocol
 782 2011-01-27 06:19:27 <joe_1> it sounds like you don't need cross-chain verification. you just hope that a lot of bitcoin miners are also mining bitdata
 783 2011-01-27 06:19:52 <tcatm> they'd get a reward for mining bitdata
 784 2011-01-27 06:20:02 <tcatm> e.g. free domains
 785 2011-01-27 06:20:04 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 786 2011-01-27 06:20:22 <nanotube> tcatm: no, consider this: say there's a chainfork length of 5, which has an invalid bitdata block in it. and there's a chainfork length of 3, which doesn't. a mainnet-only client will choose the length5 fork as correct.
 787 2011-01-27 06:20:57 <nanotube> since the miners recognize that it is the length3 that is correct
 788 2011-01-27 06:21:03 <nanotube> eventually the 5-fork will be overtaken
 789 2011-01-27 06:21:15 <nanotube> this means that sole-chain clients are more vulnerable to doublespending
 790 2011-01-27 06:21:24 xelister has joined
 791 2011-01-27 06:21:24 xelister has quit (Changing host)
 792 2011-01-27 06:21:24 xelister has joined
 793 2011-01-27 06:21:26 <nanotube> no?
 794 2011-01-27 06:21:32 <tcatm> interesting thought
 795 2011-01-27 06:22:10 <joe_1> do we really care if a bitcoin/bitdata miner uses a bad bitdata hash in the bitcoin block?
 796 2011-01-27 06:22:23 <tcatm> So yeah, miners should be able to verify both chains
 797 2011-01-27 06:22:29 <tcatm> Else we get nasty splits
 798 2011-01-27 06:24:03 <joe_1> i dont think we care if someone uses the wrong hashes for the other chain. the goal is still met, that if a client WANTS to do a simultaneous hash solution, they can. a block with a bad hash of the other chain doesn't hurt anyone; the chains still grow separately.
 799 2011-01-27 06:24:53 <tcatm> We already had that bug in bitcoind where we needed to fork the chain last year
 800 2011-01-27 06:25:40 <tcatm> Such a fork in bitdata might become impossible in early stages so bitdata needs a lot of testing and code review
 801 2011-01-27 06:26:56 <joe_1> what bug are you referring to?
 802 2011-01-27 06:27:04 skeledrew has joined
 803 2011-01-27 06:27:55 TheAncientGoat has joined
 804 2011-01-27 06:28:01 * nanotube turns in for the night. thanks tcatm for the discussion. :)
 805 2011-01-27 06:28:14 <nanotube> joe_1: probably the pre-0.3.10 bug?
 806 2011-01-27 06:28:28 <tcatm> yep /me searches wiki
 807 2011-01-27 06:28:39 <joe_1> that was some transaction thing, i thought.
 808 2011-01-27 06:28:41 <nanotube> one where someone managed to generate millions of coins in a block
 809 2011-01-27 06:28:50 <nanotube> or something like that, iirc
 810 2011-01-27 06:28:58 <joe_1> but what i was saying, i meant it only for the "other" half of the merkle tree.
 811 2011-01-27 06:29:21 <tcatm> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Incidents#Value_overflow
 812 2011-01-27 06:29:37 <echelon> has there been a feature request made for multiple wallets?
 813 2011-01-27 06:30:55 <tcatm> echelon: there's the account feature for now...
 814 2011-01-27 06:31:12 <echelon> what feature
 815 2011-01-27 06:31:24 <tcatm> You can have one wallet with multiple accounts
 816 2011-01-27 06:31:43 <echelon> oh
 817 2011-01-27 06:32:05 <tcatm> multiple wallets would be nice but needs a lot of work
 818 2011-01-27 06:32:29 <echelon> you mean multiple receiving addresses
 819 2011-01-27 06:32:33 TheAncientGoat_ has joined
 820 2011-01-27 06:33:36 <tcatm> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained
 821 2011-01-27 06:35:17 TheAncientGoat_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 822 2011-01-27 06:36:58 <andrew12^droid> 10 blocks till next retarget
 823 2011-01-27 06:38:09 <echelon> anyone tried vekja?
 824 2011-01-27 06:38:20 andrew12^droid has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 825 2011-01-27 06:38:21 <tcatm> yep, didn't work :/
 826 2011-01-27 06:38:40 <echelon> they're not returning my coins
 827 2011-01-27 06:38:52 andrew12^droid has joined
 828 2011-01-27 06:39:37 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 829 2011-01-27 06:39:50 <echelon> but it received it just fine
 830 2011-01-27 06:49:53 skeledrew has joined
 831 2011-01-27 06:50:54 andrew12^mac has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 832 2011-01-27 06:54:59 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 833 2011-01-27 06:57:46 malfy has joined
 834 2011-01-27 06:57:51 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 835 2011-01-27 06:59:06 TheAncientGoat has joined
 836 2011-01-27 07:04:33 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a1pre)
 837 2011-01-27 07:06:59 SleepyMartian has joined
 838 2011-01-27 07:13:40 <joe_1> im seeing a serious problem with the bitcoin/bitdata shared cpu thing.
 839 2011-01-27 07:14:45 <joe_1> it could be abused to allow a miner to participate on multiple branches of the main bitcoin chain.
 840 2011-01-27 07:15:04 <joe_1> so people are no longer forced to choose one fork over the other.
 841 2011-01-27 07:15:35 <joe_1> thus, there is always a cost associated with making a choice. the only people who will make a choice are the ones who stand to benefit from a malicious fork.
 842 2011-01-27 07:18:30 <joe_1> so if this idea goes forward, then bitcoin miners must require awareness of what the other hash is. most importantly, the miners must verify that the same work can NOT be handed in in support of a bad branch of the bitcoin chain.
 843 2011-01-27 07:22:06 <SleepyMartian> joe_1, if they split their cpu power between each branch it would be as if they contributed to neither?
 844 2011-01-27 07:22:55 <joe_1> the idea with the shared cpu scheme is that you build the hash problem such that solving it solves two chains at once.
 845 2011-01-27 07:23:45 <joe_1> so no, they're not splitting their cpu power between two chains, they're contributing the same amount of cpu power over again onto another (possibly bad) chain.
 846 2011-01-27 07:23:56 <SleepyMartian> It's the same thing.
 847 2011-01-27 07:24:06 <SleepyMartian> They're still moving both chains forward at the same rate.
 848 2011-01-27 07:24:15 <SleepyMartian> And unless everybody is doing it, the main chain would still win.
 849 2011-01-27 07:24:34 <joe_1> but here's the problem--everybody will be doing it. there's nothing to lose.
 850 2011-01-27 07:24:38 skeledrew has joined
 851 2011-01-27 07:25:02 SleepyMartian has left ("Bye all.")
 852 2011-01-27 07:25:11 SleepyMartian has joined
 853 2011-01-27 07:26:22 <lfm> what bad chain?
 854 2011-01-27 07:26:56 <lfm> and there is no way to "partisipate on multiple branches"
 855 2011-01-27 07:27:44 <joe_1> lfm, a discussion was going on a half hour ago about a shared work scheme, purely theoretical at this point.
 856 2011-01-27 07:28:05 <lfm> shared work, like a pool?
 857 2011-01-27 07:29:09 <joe_1> no, it's where you have the bitcoin chain like we do now, then you also have a bitDNS chain. and you want to make it so that when you complete a block on the bitcoin chain, you simultaneously complete a block on the bitDNS chain. the motivation for such a plan is that people already mining on bitcoin will be able to mine "for free" on bitDNS.
 858 2011-01-27 07:31:00 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|So in other words, start another bitcurrency??
 859 2011-01-27 07:31:13 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Also, it amazes me that people are paying for bitcoins
 860 2011-01-27 07:31:34 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|What are they trading for these days anyway?
 861 2011-01-27 07:31:38 <joe_1> the bitDNS currency would be an indicator of who owns domain namespace
 862 2011-01-27 07:31:42 <joe_1> 40 cents us
 863 2011-01-27 07:33:45 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|wha
 864 2011-01-27 07:33:54 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|That makes no sense...
 865 2011-01-27 07:34:02 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|And as such, I am going to bed
 866 2011-01-27 07:41:19 <echelon> to sign up at bitcoinmarket you have to email bitcoinmarket at gmail?
 867 2011-01-27 07:52:41 brunner has joined
 868 2011-01-27 07:57:33 OneFixt_ has joined
 869 2011-01-27 07:58:46 OneFixt has quit (Disconnected by services)
 870 2011-01-27 07:58:58 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
 871 2011-01-27 07:59:05 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
 872 2011-01-27 07:59:05 OneFixt has joined
 873 2011-01-27 08:04:54 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
 874 2011-01-27 08:04:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104831 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 18 hours, 14 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 22012.38133799
 875 2011-01-27 08:05:52 <cosurgi> gribble has a bug. "Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks; In About: 1 week, 4 days....."
 876 2011-01-27 08:10:47 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
 877 2011-01-27 08:10:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104831 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 18 hours, 14 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 22012.38133799
 878 2011-01-27 08:15:39 midnightmagic_ has joined
 879 2011-01-27 08:15:39 midnightmagic_ has quit (Changing host)
 880 2011-01-27 08:15:39 midnightmagic_ has joined
 881 2011-01-27 08:25:53 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
 882 2011-01-27 08:25:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104834 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 2013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 48 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 88049.97662880
 883 2011-01-27 08:36:54 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 884 2011-01-27 08:41:11 akem has joined
 885 2011-01-27 08:41:11 akem has quit (Changing host)
 886 2011-01-27 08:41:11 akem has joined
 887 2011-01-27 08:49:00 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 888 2011-01-27 09:41:39 <TheAncientGoat> Btw, if anyone has any suggestions for YouTipIt (bitcoin flattr), they set up an idea site: http://youtipit.idea.informer.com/
 889 2011-01-27 10:16:12 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
 890 2011-01-27 10:21:39 <Diablo-D3> http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/27/sonys-ngp-psp2-has-a-quad-core-arm-cortex-a9-processor/
 891 2011-01-27 10:21:40 <Diablo-D3> can we say
 892 2011-01-27 10:21:41 <Diablo-D3> bullshit?
 893 2011-01-27 10:22:39 <joe_1> bullshit
 894 2011-01-27 10:23:35 <ArtForz> shillbutt
 895 2011-01-27 10:29:21 mtgox has joined
 896 2011-01-27 10:35:43 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 897 2011-01-27 10:39:35 <Sirius> bull's hit
 898 2011-01-27 10:39:52 <UukGoblin> huh this "minimum 10 BTC" limit on mtgox is silly... you can work around it in various ways...
 899 2011-01-27 10:48:58 davout has joined
 900 2011-01-27 10:58:39 noagendamarket has joined
 901 2011-01-27 11:03:19 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
 902 2011-01-27 11:03:20 noagendamarket has joined
 903 2011-01-27 11:06:48 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
 904 2011-01-27 11:12:59 <andrew12^droid> UukGoblin: how?
 905 2011-01-27 11:15:12 <necrodearia> php: $rcvd0 = $btcconn->getreceivedbyaddress($bitcoin_address, 0); // $rcvd0 = 0.010000000000000000208  <-- Is this a floating point issue or is the amount accurate?
 906 2011-01-27 11:15:31 <necrodearia> From command line I see 0.01000000
 907 2011-01-27 11:16:08 <andrew12^droid> Floating point issue
 908 2011-01-27 11:16:11 <necrodearia> hmm
 909 2011-01-27 11:16:38 <necrodearia> Is anyone familiar with a work-around?  Does it require modification to jsonRPCClient php library?
 910 2011-01-27 11:17:03 <andrew12^droid> In python 0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+01
 911 2011-01-27 11:17:05 <andrew12^droid> Er
 912 2011-01-27 11:17:12 <necrodearia> Mm, the library should be unaffected.
 913 2011-01-27 11:17:25 <andrew12^droid> In python 0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1+0.1 == 0.999...
 914 2011-01-27 11:17:40 <andrew12^droid> Floating point's a bitch. :P
 915 2011-01-27 11:18:35 <andrew12^droid> Yaaay.
 916 2011-01-27 11:18:37 <tcatm> necrodearia: a workaround might be to round to 8 decimal places...
 917 2011-01-27 11:18:40 <andrew12^droid> No school today.
 918 2011-01-27 11:18:51 <necrodearia> php function gettype() indicates that $btcconn->getreceivedbyaddress($bitcoin_address, 0) is a double
 919 2011-01-27 11:19:16 <tcatm> double is a float
 920 2011-01-27 11:19:19 <necrodearia> mm
 921 2011-01-27 11:19:23 <joe_1> that's wrong, rpc should change to return that as a string
 922 2011-01-27 11:19:30 <necrodearia> php seems to be unable to handle floats properly. =/
 923 2011-01-27 11:19:39 <necrodearia> I agree, it should be a string
 924 2011-01-27 11:19:46 <andrew12^droid> Its handling them properly
 925 2011-01-27 11:19:46 <necrodearia> php can handle strings.  bc math requires strings
 926 2011-01-27 11:19:46 <tcatm> rpc returns it as decimal which is perfectly fine
 927 2011-01-27 11:19:49 <andrew12^droid> That's how floats work
 928 2011-01-27 11:19:56 <necrodearia> mm
 929 2011-01-27 11:20:00 <tcatm> just tell your parser to parse it as decimal and not to cast it to float ;)
 930 2011-01-27 11:20:19 <necrodearia> parser?  jsonRPCClient php library?
 931 2011-01-27 11:20:35 <tcatm> yep
 932 2011-01-27 11:21:48 <necrodearia> mm, $response = json_decode($response,true);
 933 2011-01-27 11:23:51 <necrodearia> array(3) {  ["result"]=> float(0.010000000000000000208)
 934 2011-01-27 11:24:25 * andrew12^droid frowns at php
 935 2011-01-27 11:24:28 <necrodearia> That comes directly from fgets()
 936 2011-01-27 11:24:53 <necrodearia> which means the 0.01000000 is interpreted as 0.010000000000000000208
 937 2011-01-27 11:25:06 <andrew12^droid> No
 938 2011-01-27 11:25:23 <andrew12^droid> 0.01000000 is stored as ...that long number
 939 2011-01-27 11:25:44 <andrew12^droid> Because floating point numbers are just an estimate
 940 2011-01-27 11:26:05 <tcatm> mhm the RPC interface should switch to fullprecision integers
 941 2011-01-27 11:26:14 <andrew12^droid> Because base 2 fractions are different from base 10
 942 2011-01-27 11:26:14 <UukGoblin> yeah definitely
 943 2011-01-27 11:26:22 <UukGoblin> it should never have used floats in the first place
 944 2011-01-27 11:26:26 SleepyMartian is now known as MartianW
 945 2011-01-27 11:26:36 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
 946 2011-01-27 11:26:36 MartianW has joined
 947 2011-01-27 11:26:51 <necrodearia> php.ini shows precision = 14
 948 2011-01-27 11:27:04 <necrodearia> Actually, that's the wrong php.ini
 949 2011-01-27 11:27:56 <necrodearia> precision is 20
 950 2011-01-27 11:29:07 altamic has joined
 951 2011-01-27 11:30:08 * cosurgi wonders when he'll lose his nerves and join the pool again.
 952 2011-01-27 11:31:05 <necrodearia> number_format($btcconn->getreceivedbyaddress($bitcoin_address, 0), 16, ".", ""); is work-around
 953 2011-01-27 11:31:16 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
 954 2011-01-27 11:31:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104849 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 1998 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 25 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 20912.58757194
 955 2011-01-27 11:31:20 <necrodearia> cosurgi, well, for the moment the pool is closed, so you must wait until it reopens.
 956 2011-01-27 11:31:29 <cosurgi> oh, why?
 957 2011-01-27 11:31:37 <UukGoblin> floats used for money accounting = WRONG
 958 2011-01-27 11:31:47 <necrodearia> UukGoblin, oh?
 959 2011-01-27 11:31:50 <Diablo-D3> its not only wrong, its illegal.
 960 2011-01-27 11:31:57 <necrodearia> tcatm, Is that true?
 961 2011-01-27 11:32:18 <Diablo-D3> besides, btc isnt even a floating point number
 962 2011-01-27 11:32:22 <Diablo-D3> its a fixed base number.
 963 2011-01-27 11:32:28 <necrodearia> Because if it is, I would like a 'correct' fix rather than a work-around.
 964 2011-01-27 11:32:29 <Diablo-D3> uBTCand whatnot
 965 2011-01-27 11:33:08 <necrodearia> I wonder if mtgox has been affected by floating point issues or if he has even noticed.
 966 2011-01-27 11:33:22 <ArtForz> yep
 967 2011-01-27 11:33:52 <andrew12^droid> It probably causes more profit :p
 968 2011-01-27 11:34:04 <ArtForz> doesnt matter much either way
 969 2011-01-27 11:34:06 <UukGoblin> necrodearia, the RPC interface to bitcoind is wrong and should be using fixed-point decimals instead
 970 2011-01-27 11:34:19 <ArtForz> errr... it somewhat is
 971 2011-01-27 11:34:20 <UukGoblin> necrodearia, yes it has, I even raised some rounding issues
 972 2011-01-27 11:34:25 <necrodearia> mm
 973 2011-01-27 11:34:26 <UukGoblin> necrodearia, (to mtgox)
 974 2011-01-27 11:34:31 <ArtForz> RPC interface on the bitcoin side *is* correct
 975 2011-01-27 11:34:51 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, no, it returns stuff like balance as a json float
 976 2011-01-27 11:35:12 <UukGoblin> at least last time I checked
 977 2011-01-27 11:35:13 <necrodearia> That I can confirm.
 978 2011-01-27 11:35:19 <necrodearia> as I just checked.
 979 2011-01-27 11:35:19 <ArtForz> no, it returs raw data of "x.yz", your json library is braindead if it only can parse that as a float
 980 2011-01-27 11:35:29 <necrodearia> mm
 981 2011-01-27 11:35:46 <andrew12^droid> Domain squatters suck :(
 982 2011-01-27 11:36:01 <cosurgi> necrodearia: the pool seems up.
 983 2011-01-27 11:36:11 <ArtForz> in python I just say json.load(..., parse_float=Decimal.decimal, ...)
 984 2011-01-27 11:36:15 <tcatm> actually, RPC JSON returns double...
 985 2011-01-27 11:36:23 <UukGoblin> return ((double)GetBalance() / (double)COIN);
 986 2011-01-27 11:36:27 <ArtForz> yep
 987 2011-01-27 11:36:35 <UukGoblin> that's clearly a float
 988 2011-01-27 11:36:39 <ArtForz> double
 989 2011-01-27 11:36:42 <ArtForz> I tested that code, it is accurate for all values
 990 2011-01-27 11:36:46 <andrew12^droid> Heh
 991 2011-01-27 11:36:47 <UukGoblin> double, but still float
 992 2011-01-27 11:37:11 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, have you tested for 21 342 847.94584835 ?
 993 2011-01-27 11:37:15 <andrew12^droid> Maybe php is a huge troll and doubles are secretly floats?
 994 2011-01-27 11:37:31 <ArtForz> max coins is 21M, so... no
 995 2011-01-27 11:37:36 <UukGoblin> sorry
 996 2011-01-27 11:37:44 <UukGoblin> I meant 12 342 847.94584835
 997 2011-01-27 11:38:22 <ArtForz> what about it?
 998 2011-01-27 11:39:00 <UukGoblin> it's just a random number out of my arse, but I'm trying to show how many precision digits it actually requires
 999 2011-01-27 11:39:05 <ArtForz> yes
1000 2011-01-27 11:39:34 <UukGoblin> have you actually checked the whole range one by one?
1001 2011-01-27 11:39:36 <noagendamarket> andrew12 did someone domain squat on you ?
1002 2011-01-27 11:40:04 <andrew12^droid> Heh
1003 2011-01-27 11:41:08 <UukGoblin> double precision has significand precision of 52 bits...  the highest 52-bit number is 45 035 996.27370495... which is probably enough indeed
1004 2011-01-27 11:43:18 darrob has joined
1005 2011-01-27 11:45:25 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1006 2011-01-27 11:45:32 <UukGoblin> and true, json doesn't have floats in its specification, only fractions... hm...
1007 2011-01-27 11:45:59 <UukGoblin> I must have misread somewhere that it's a float then
1008 2011-01-27 11:47:09 <UukGoblin> personally I wouldn't have used floats for such numbers at all, integer operations are much safer
1009 2011-01-27 11:47:37 <andrew12^droid> Unless you want decimals :P
1010 2011-01-27 11:47:57 <UukGoblin> decimal point should only be inserted at the user interface level
1011 2011-01-27 11:49:26 <andrew12^droid> Wait, do you mean to use 100000000 as 1.0?
1012 2011-01-27 11:49:31 <UukGoblin> yes
1013 2011-01-27 11:49:38 <andrew12^droid> Hm.
1014 2011-01-27 11:50:20 <Diablo-D3> [06:27:07] <Diablo-D3> besides, btc isnt even a floating point number
1015 2011-01-27 11:50:20 <Diablo-D3> [06:27:10] <Diablo-D3> its a fixed base number.
1016 2011-01-27 11:50:26 <Diablo-D3> [06:27:18] <Diablo-D3> uBTC and whatnot
1017 2011-01-27 11:50:30 <Diablo-D3> I only said that
1018 2011-01-27 11:50:33 <Diablo-D3> 15 minutes ago
1019 2011-01-27 11:50:50 <UukGoblin> what's uBTC?
1020 2011-01-27 11:50:56 <andrew12^droid> Micro bitcoins
1021 2011-01-27 11:51:05 <UukGoblin> oh
1022 2011-01-27 11:51:18 <UukGoblin> well, not in all parts of the code, it seems.
1023 2011-01-27 11:51:20 <andrew12^droid> These aren't the characters you are loooking for
1024 2011-01-27 11:52:23 <UukGoblin> oh, maybe it /is/ just the user interface then
1025 2011-01-27 11:54:53 <UukGoblin> ok well sorry then, code is fine, just make sure that your JSON parser doesn't interpret the result as a single-precision float :-]
1026 2011-01-27 11:55:27 <necrodearia> echo sprintf("%f", $btcconn->getreceivedbyaddress($bitcoin_address_witcoin, 0)); // outputs 0.010000
1027 2011-01-27 11:58:52 RazielZ has joined
1028 2011-01-27 11:59:26 sabalaba has joined
1029 2011-01-27 12:16:21 spin0 has joined
1030 2011-01-27 12:24:00 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
1031 2011-01-27 12:24:09 darrob has joined
1032 2011-01-27 12:27:23 andrew12^droid has quit (Quit: parting is such sweet sorrow...)
1033 2011-01-27 12:32:35 m0mchil has joined
1034 2011-01-27 12:38:06 satamusic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1035 2011-01-27 12:38:37 satamusic has joined
1036 2011-01-27 12:39:31 <sipa> @pl r s m = f s (g m)
1037 2011-01-27 12:39:36 <sipa> oops!
1038 2011-01-27 12:45:30 bitcapitalist has joined
1039 2011-01-27 12:45:55 Tritonio has joined
1040 2011-01-27 12:47:21 satamusic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1041 2011-01-27 12:47:45 bitcapitalist has quit (Client Quit)
1042 2011-01-27 12:48:03 satamusic has joined
1043 2011-01-27 12:54:56 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1044 2011-01-27 12:58:24 slush has joined
1045 2011-01-27 13:05:12 niekie has joined
1046 2011-01-27 13:08:38 mtgox has joined
1047 2011-01-27 13:22:40 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1048 2011-01-27 13:24:05 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1049 2011-01-27 13:26:22 satamusic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1050 2011-01-27 13:27:04 satamusic has joined
1051 2011-01-27 13:34:22 <LobsterMan> is it bad the debug.log is 60mb?
1052 2011-01-27 13:34:27 <LobsterMan> can i safely remove it?
1053 2011-01-27 13:34:38 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1054 2011-01-27 13:35:10 <tcatm> LobsterMan: yes
1055 2011-01-27 13:38:40 Cusipzzz has joined
1056 2011-01-27 13:38:44 mtgox has joined
1057 2011-01-27 13:43:18 darrob has quit (Quit: quit)
1058 2011-01-27 13:55:25 <molecular> does bitcoin need to be stopped to backup wallet.dat?
1059 2011-01-27 13:56:55 sabalaba has joined
1060 2011-01-27 13:58:42 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1061 2011-01-27 13:59:15 <sipa> molecular: bitcoind backupwallet /tmp/backup.dat
1062 2011-01-27 13:59:19 <sipa> while it's running :)
1063 2011-01-27 14:00:17 altamic has joined
1064 2011-01-27 14:04:20 <noagendamarket> http://virus-com.com/viruscom/viruscom_94496.html     hmmmm
1065 2011-01-27 14:12:56 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1066 2011-01-27 14:13:36 <Cusipzzz> noagendamarket: ??
1067 2011-01-27 14:15:13 <ArtForz> yawn, fake AV site
1068 2011-01-27 14:15:13 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1069 2011-01-27 14:16:04 <Cusipzzz> 1. wait for bitcoin to getmore popular 2. have virus removal software wipe all wallets 3 profit ??
1070 2011-01-27 14:16:25 <ArtForz> 99% it's just a google search spam site
1071 2011-01-27 14:17:37 <ArtForz> search for somerandomstring.exe and - look - a bunch of hits on fake AV sites
1072 2011-01-27 14:18:04 altamic has joined
1073 2011-01-27 14:18:04 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1074 2011-01-27 14:18:04 altamic has joined
1075 2011-01-27 14:18:17 <ArtForz> and probably also a bunch of somerandomstring_keygen_serial_clean.rar.exe
1076 2011-01-27 14:23:36 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1077 2011-01-27 14:24:18 larsivi has joined
1078 2011-01-27 14:25:05 <molecular> thisamericanlife had an episode on money, the federal bank, and of course the crazy shit they did after the crisis. maybe an interesting listen for some: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/423/the-invention-of-money
1079 2011-01-27 14:25:10 <molecular> no mention of bitcoins, though ;(
1080 2011-01-27 14:25:32 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1081 2011-01-27 14:27:38 <sipa> molecular: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/DiabloMiner-showHash.patch
1082 2011-01-27 14:27:42 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1083 2011-01-27 14:29:41 <molecular> hey, sipa
1084 2011-01-27 14:29:45 <molecular> thanks
1085 2011-01-27 14:31:14 <molecular> very nice, I will use that
1086 2011-01-27 14:32:43 ducki2p has joined
1087 2011-01-27 14:40:52 <molecular> sipa: here's my diff with the status-line, should you want it. it was not just the one line... http://pastebin.com/RzRjhKjf
1088 2011-01-27 14:41:28 slush has joined
1089 2011-01-27 14:50:07 MartianW has joined
1090 2011-01-27 14:57:08 <sipa> molecular: i'll have a look at it later today
1091 2011-01-27 14:57:16 <molecular> yeah
1092 2011-01-27 14:57:21 <molecular> can also give you the combined diff of our 2 if you like
1093 2011-01-27 14:58:30 <sipa> it doesn't conflict?
1094 2011-01-27 14:58:46 <sipa> you also had some extra statistics on found lines, no?
1095 2011-01-27 14:59:33 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1096 2011-01-27 15:00:22 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1097 2011-01-27 15:00:27 <molecular> yeah, s/block
1098 2011-01-27 15:00:33 <molecular> only really interesting for pooled mining
1099 2011-01-27 15:00:49 <molecular> and minutes since startup
1100 2011-01-27 15:01:12 <molecular> I just manually integrated your patch
1101 2011-01-27 15:01:25 <molecular> didnt collide too much
1102 2011-01-27 15:03:51 Daviey has quit (Excess Flood)
1103 2011-01-27 15:04:47 <molecular> well, I used "my way" of presenting a found block appended to the end of the status-line
1104 2011-01-27 15:04:56 Kiba has joined
1105 2011-01-27 15:06:11 <slush> what patch?
1106 2011-01-27 15:07:00 <molecular> just some cosmetics (me: status-line, sipa: hash result and "score")
1107 2011-01-27 15:08:57 <molecular> looks like this now:
1108 2011-01-27 15:08:57 <slush> oh, score is nice
1109 2011-01-27 15:09:02 <molecular> 0.98m: 448.25 Mhash/s, 9.84 s/block [#2 4] 0000000007c6f8bd280b341741c07f1c6ff5fd40a12fbc9d815ec84c245c4259 (score 32.92)
1110 2011-01-27 15:09:10 <molecular> 1.02m: 454.38 Mhash/s, 7.63 s/block [#1 5] 0000000094995f7e69e96b1b9c7be5961b7b89bb83aed8f040211e419f0f40da (score 1.72)
1111 2011-01-27 15:10:32 <molecular> http://pastebin.com/61KG08Sb
1112 2011-01-27 15:10:57 <sipa> those numbers are the current estimated hashrate at that point, or the real average rate between that block and the previous one?
1113 2011-01-27 15:10:57 Daviey has joined
1114 2011-01-27 15:11:05 <sipa> the Mhash/s numbers
1115 2011-01-27 15:11:16 <molecular> sipa: hashrate is still like Diablo-D3 calculates it
1116 2011-01-27 15:11:35 <molecular> depending on wether "-f 1" or not it's calculated differntly
1117 2011-01-27 15:11:40 <sipa> ok
1118 2011-01-27 15:11:47 <molecular> the s/block is from start to now
1119 2011-01-27 15:11:53 <molecular> so it converges
1120 2011-01-27 15:12:19 <molecular> am thinking about putting in a better hashmeter (moving average or sth)
1121 2011-01-27 15:13:04 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1122 2011-01-27 15:16:51 <molecular> oops, I made a mistake that halfed the s/block rate. here's the hopefully correct patch: http://pastebin.com/hdqt9sir
1123 2011-01-27 15:16:58 * molecular is sorry.
1124 2011-01-27 15:31:39 EvanR-work has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1125 2011-01-27 15:32:55 <Diablo-D3> er, s/block is useless
1126 2011-01-27 15:33:14 <Diablo-D3> molecular: what are you doing, hacking up mine?
1127 2011-01-27 15:33:17 EvanR-work has joined
1128 2011-01-27 15:35:42 dwdollar1 has joined
1129 2011-01-27 15:42:08 ApertureScience has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1130 2011-01-27 15:42:24 <slush> ,,pool
1131 2011-01-27 15:42:25 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
1132 2011-01-27 15:45:16 ApertureScience has joined
1133 2011-01-27 15:48:13 <soultcer> ,,
1134 2011-01-27 15:49:33 testtest has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1135 2011-01-27 15:49:41 jwalck has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1136 2011-01-27 15:50:10 jwalck has joined
1137 2011-01-27 15:57:36 devon_hillard has joined
1138 2011-01-27 15:57:37 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1139 2011-01-27 15:58:39 tg has joined
1140 2011-01-27 16:04:16 necrodearia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1141 2011-01-27 16:04:42 <sipa> ;;calc 600000
1142 2011-01-27 16:04:42 <gribble> ...
1143 2011-01-27 16:04:45 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 600000
1144 2011-01-27 16:04:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 1 day, 19 hours, 46 minutes, and 11 seconds
1145 2011-01-27 16:05:55 necrodearia has joined
1146 2011-01-27 16:06:57 <necrodearia> BCBot, you're welcome
1147 2011-01-27 16:10:50 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1148 2011-01-27 16:10:55 xelister has joined
1149 2011-01-27 16:10:55 xelister has quit (Changing host)
1150 2011-01-27 16:10:55 xelister has joined
1151 2011-01-27 16:23:09 SleepyMartian has joined
1152 2011-01-27 16:27:07 SleepyMartian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1153 2011-01-27 16:30:18 satamusic has joined
1154 2011-01-27 16:32:15 <EvanR-work> whats the size of the hash?
1155 2011-01-27 16:32:29 <lfm> 32 bytes?
1156 2011-01-27 16:32:47 <sipa> what hash? :)
1157 2011-01-27 16:32:56 <EvanR-work> as in mega hashes
1158 2011-01-27 16:33:08 <EvanR-work> target is what, a number between 1 and?
1159 2011-01-27 16:33:12 <lfm> never heard of mega hashes
1160 2011-01-27 16:33:19 <EvanR-work> Mhps
1161 2011-01-27 16:33:30 <sipa> EvanR-work: it's just a measure of number of bitcoin-hashing operations per second
1162 2011-01-27 16:33:43 <EvanR-work> yeah, whats the length of that hash
1163 2011-01-27 16:33:46 <ArtForz> block hashes per second top be exact
1164 2011-01-27 16:33:49 <lfm> blobk hashes are input 80 bytes, output 32 bytes
1165 2011-01-27 16:33:59 <ArtForz> and they're double-sha256 as usual
1166 2011-01-27 16:34:09 <EvanR-work> can target by a 31 byte number?
1167 2011-01-27 16:34:12 <EvanR-work> be
1168 2011-01-27 16:34:22 <sipa> it is
1169 2011-01-27 16:34:29 <sipa> a 32 byte number
1170 2011-01-27 16:34:35 <EvanR-work> whats target in terms of difficulty
1171 2011-01-27 16:34:53 <lfm> evan not really, target is a 52 byte number. there is a 32 bit encoded form of the target/difficulty
1172 2011-01-27 16:34:54 <sipa> target = 65535*2^208 / difficulty
1173 2011-01-27 16:35:07 <sipa> lfm: huh?
1174 2011-01-27 16:35:34 <lfm> the nbits value in the header is a 32 bit encoded form of the target/difficulty
1175 2011-01-27 16:35:38 <sipa> yes
1176 2011-01-27 16:35:45 <EvanR-work> nbits eh
1177 2011-01-27 16:35:47 <ArtForz> yep
1178 2011-01-27 16:35:50 <EvanR-work> havent gotten that far yet
1179 2011-01-27 16:36:10 <sipa> EvanR-work: the target is a 256-bit number, which is stored compactly as the 32-bit nbits value
1180 2011-01-27 16:36:35 <ArtForz> pretty simple encoding, target = (nBits & 0x00FFFFFF) << (8 * ((nBits >> 24) - 3))
1181 2011-01-27 16:36:36 <EvanR-work> so whats probability of getting below the target per hash
1182 2011-01-27 16:36:55 <ArtForz> target / (2*256-1)
1183 2011-01-27 16:37:06 <EvanR-work> 2^?
1184 2011-01-27 16:37:07 fahadsadah has quit (Excess Flood)
1185 2011-01-27 16:37:18 <lfm> EvanR-work: 1/(2*32*difficulty) approximatly
1186 2011-01-27 16:37:41 <lfm> EvanR-work: 1/(2^32*difficulty) approximatly
1187 2011-01-27 16:37:43 <sipa> EvanR-work: 65535*difficulty / 2^48
1188 2011-01-27 16:37:58 <sipa> oh wait
1189 2011-01-27 16:37:59 <molecular> Diablo-D3, yeah, just some cosmetics with the status-line
1190 2011-01-27 16:38:10 <lfm> sipa ya same thing
1191 2011-01-27 16:38:18 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1192 2011-01-27 16:38:21 <ArtForz> whoops, 1 / (2**256 / (target + 1))
1193 2011-01-27 16:38:30 <EvanR-work> i like lfm's formula ;)
1194 2011-01-27 16:38:56 <ArtForz> 2**256 / (target + 1) is what bitcoin uses to calculate block "work"
1195 2011-01-27 16:39:14 <ArtForz> which == avg hashes needed for that block
1196 2011-01-27 16:40:27 <ArtForz> so currently about... 94543900579200 hashes/block
1197 2011-01-27 16:40:32 <lfm> ya sipa's slightly more accurate formula is properly 65536/(2^48*diffuculty)
1198 2011-01-27 16:40:45 <sipa> 65535
1199 2011-01-27 16:40:49 <ArtForz> shouldnt that be 65535 ?
1200 2011-01-27 16:40:54 <lfm> oh ya
1201 2011-01-27 16:40:58 <sipa> 65536 would make it equal to yours :)
1202 2011-01-27 16:41:00 <EvanR-work> average time to get a block is 1/P ?
1203 2011-01-27 16:41:05 <sipa> EvanR-work: ye
1204 2011-01-27 16:41:07 <sipa> yes
1205 2011-01-27 16:41:33 <ArtForz> yay for bc,calc :P
1206 2011-01-27 16:42:04 <ArtForz> who cares if it's 0.0015% off
1207 2011-01-27 16:42:56 <lfm> ya the nbits value isnt that accurate a value anyway. only 15 to 23 buts
1208 2011-01-27 16:43:09 <lfm> bits
1209 2011-01-27 16:43:11 <ArtForz> 16 to 23 I think
1210 2011-01-27 16:43:27 <lfm> artforz actuallt there isa sign bit not used
1211 2011-01-27 16:43:37 <ArtForz> thats #24
1212 2011-01-27 16:44:02 <ArtForz> (8 bit exponent) (1 bit sign) (23 bit mantissa)
1213 2011-01-27 16:44:19 <sipa> and the exponent refers to 256^n ?
1214 2011-01-27 16:44:24 <lfm> oh ok I guess 15 bits would let you shift in an other byte.
1215 2011-01-27 16:44:32 <ArtForz> yep
1216 2011-01-27 16:45:00 <ArtForz> iirc exponent is 2**(8*(e-3))
1217 2011-01-27 16:45:21 <EvanR-work> whats the estimate for next difficulty?
1218 2011-01-27 16:45:27 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1219 2011-01-27 16:45:27 <ArtForz> or put simply, value is 0.mantissa << 2**(e*8)
1220 2011-01-27 16:45:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104884 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 1963 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 0 hours, 26 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 23505.50167196
1221 2011-01-27 16:45:37 <sipa> but it's far from accurate yet
1222 2011-01-27 16:45:56 <lfm> cant really be estimated very accuratly yet
1223 2011-01-27 16:46:00 <sipa> indeed
1224 2011-01-27 16:46:50 <ArtForz> rough estimate, 25500
1225 2011-01-27 16:47:09 fahadsadah has joined
1226 2011-01-27 16:47:36 <lfm> ya there are other ways of estimating the next diff, doesnt matter much tho
1227 2011-01-27 16:48:25 <ArtForz> assuming growth continues at same rate as last 2016 blocks, ~26300
1228 2011-01-27 16:49:42 <lfm> I think youre lucky to get +/- 10%
1229 2011-01-27 16:50:05 <ArtForz> I'd say +-5% is doable, unless something unusual happens
1230 2011-01-27 16:50:33 <ArtForz> growth over the last few periods generally was 15% +-5% or so
1231 2011-01-27 16:51:11 <lfm> people were p[redicting 20000 for jan 1 and it took till yesterday
1232 2011-01-27 16:51:43 <ArtForz> 18%, 13%, 13%, 19%
1233 2011-01-27 16:51:45 <sipa> my estimate is some 1.3% growth per day
1234 2011-01-27 16:51:50 <sipa> currently
1235 2011-01-27 16:51:53 <sipa> but it fluctuates
1236 2011-01-27 16:52:08 <ArtForz> well, because growth generally isn't smooth
1237 2011-01-27 16:53:58 <ArtForz> clusters coming online = decent jumps
1238 2011-01-27 16:55:05 <sipa> yeah, but i'm looking at data obtained using an exponential windows with tau=2 weeks
1239 2011-01-27 16:55:46 <ArtForz> hard to estimate, as it also depends a lot on expected future btc value
1240 2011-01-27 16:57:40 <ArtForz> hmmm... is it me or is BC "transfer funds" broken for LR outtransfers
1241 2011-01-27 17:01:12 <slush> ;;bc,poolstats
1242 2011-01-27 17:01:12 <gribble> {"round_probability": 80.609999999999999, "hashes_ps": 30749509245, "shares": 36105, "active_workers": 373, "round_duration": "1:24:03", "round_started": "2011-01-27 15:31:57", "getwork_ps": 120}
1243 2011-01-27 17:01:18 <slush> firstly over 30ghash
1244 2011-01-27 17:01:34 <sipa> party when you reach 32768 GH/s?
1245 2011-01-27 17:01:38 <dooglus> ArtForz: "value is 0.mantissa << 2**(e*8)" -- you sure about that?  looks crazy to me
1246 2011-01-27 17:01:40 <sipa> *MH/s
1247 2011-01-27 17:01:53 <slush> last 10ghash in pool are two newly added 5970 clusters
1248 2011-01-27 17:01:53 <molecular> here's a bitcoin difficulty char (by block #) http://i.imgur.com/d6HFi.png
1249 2011-01-27 17:01:59 <molecular> s/char/chart
1250 2011-01-27 17:02:24 <molecular> still looks quite exponential
1251 2011-01-27 17:02:29 <ArtForz> well... really mantissa << 2**(e*8) >> 24
1252 2011-01-27 17:02:37 <m0mchil> just to announce - fixed poclbm with Art's kernel, tested OK against testnet
1253 2011-01-27 17:02:45 <ArtForz> = mantissa << 2**((e-3)*8)
1254 2011-01-27 17:02:58 <dooglus> ArtForz: do you want both << and ** in the expression?  one or the other should suggice
1255 2011-01-27 17:02:59 <m0mchil> would highly appreciate reports about performance
1256 2011-01-27 17:03:01 <molecular> m0mchil, what was the problem? seemed to run fine
1257 2011-01-27 17:03:02 <dooglus> suffice*
1258 2011-01-27 17:03:07 <ArtForz> errr... yeah
1259 2011-01-27 17:03:13 <ArtForz> ignore the <<, I mean *
1260 2011-01-27 17:03:17 <m0mchil> it worked OK just with diff = 1
1261 2011-01-27 17:03:23 <m0mchil> should go now
1262 2011-01-27 17:03:30 <slush> m0mchil: is there any speed difference between your and Diablo's miner, when both are using ArtForz kernel?
1263 2011-01-27 17:03:36 <molecular> I tried it on slush's pool yesterday. seemed fine
1264 2011-01-27 17:03:42 <m0mchil> please test it
1265 2011-01-27 17:03:49 <m0mchil> pool is diff = 1
1266 2011-01-27 17:03:54 <molecular> oh, ok
1267 2011-01-27 17:03:59 m0mchil has quit ()
1268 2011-01-27 17:04:07 <Diablo-D3> [11:32:47] <molecular> Diablo-D3, yeah, just some cosmetics with the status-line
1269 2011-01-27 17:04:15 <dooglus> mantissa << ((e-3)*8), right?
1270 2011-01-27 17:04:23 <ArtForz> yep
1271 2011-01-27 17:04:25 <Diablo-D3> then use the attempt counter
1272 2011-01-27 17:04:35 <Diablo-D3> and start time
1273 2011-01-27 17:04:38 <slush> m0mchil: I'd like to run your miner, but have problems with pyopencl. Have to try guide you sent to forum
1274 2011-01-27 17:04:45 <ArtForz> unless e is < 3
1275 2011-01-27 17:04:56 <Diablo-D3> slush: why arent you just apt-getting pyopencl?
1276 2011-01-27 17:05:06 <sipa> pyopencl package depends on nvidia drivers
1277 2011-01-27 17:05:08 <dooglus> you can't << with a negative amount?
1278 2011-01-27 17:05:10 <slush> Diablo-D3: because it depends on nvidia drivers
1279 2011-01-27 17:05:12 <sipa> for some reason
1280 2011-01-27 17:05:13 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt
1281 2011-01-27 17:05:14 <molecular> Diablo-D3, you mean that: "((double)(now - startTime) / 1E3) / currentAttempts.get() "
1282 2011-01-27 17:05:16 <molecular> ?
1283 2011-01-27 17:05:20 <Diablo-D3> it installs them, but you dont use them
1284 2011-01-27 17:05:21 <ArtForz> yep
1285 2011-01-27 17:05:29 <lfm> it does for ubuntu
1286 2011-01-27 17:05:33 <Diablo-D3> see above
1287 2011-01-27 17:05:37 <lfm> ya
1288 2011-01-27 17:05:37 <Diablo-D3> you can safely ignore that
1289 2011-01-27 17:05:42 <slush> Diablo-D3: package provide some files which are also in sdk 2.1.
1290 2011-01-27 17:05:43 <ArtForz> e = 0 -> result is 0
1291 2011-01-27 17:06:00 <dooglus> 8 << -1 = 4 according to gcc
1292 2011-01-27 17:06:01 <Diablo-D3> since you override your ld library path anyhow, no one gives a shit
1293 2011-01-27 17:06:06 <ArtForz> wow
1294 2011-01-27 17:06:18 <Diablo-D3> dooglus: because you just wrote 8 >> 1
1295 2011-01-27 17:06:21 <ArtForz> since when does << accept signed right hand operator
1296 2011-01-27 17:06:30 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ^
1297 2011-01-27 17:06:34 <dooglus> it tells me "warning: left shift count is negative", but works
1298 2011-01-27 17:06:53 <Diablo-D3> molecular: yeah that works
1299 2011-01-27 17:06:59 <ArtForz> yeah, but I'm pretty sure thats not guaranteed by standard C
1300 2011-01-27 17:07:02 <lfm> dooglas works on "some" implementations
1301 2011-01-27 17:07:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: its not
1302 2011-01-27 17:07:30 <Diablo-D3> oh, and that warning goes away if you set to a gnu standard instead of a std one
1303 2011-01-27 17:07:45 <ArtForz> for e < 3 it's simply mantissa >> (8*(3-e))
1304 2011-01-27 17:08:08 <ArtForz> and yes, that means for e = 0 we shift a 15-23 bit value right by 24 bits...
1305 2011-01-27 17:08:32 <ArtForz> the sign bit is applied afterwards
1306 2011-01-27 17:08:39 <lfm> and it doesnt mean rotate
1307 2011-01-27 17:08:43 <ArtForz> not yet sure why we need -0, but hey...
1308 2011-01-27 17:09:39 <ArtForz> and yes, e < 3 is completely useless really, we can encode the same value with e==3
1309 2011-01-27 17:10:11 <lfm> hopefully we wont have to deal with difficulties in that range EVER
1310 2011-01-27 17:10:16 <ArtForz> hehehe
1311 2011-01-27 17:10:21 <ArtForz> kinda unlikely
1312 2011-01-27 17:10:45 <ArtForz> that'd be what, > 2**192 difficulty ?
1313 2011-01-27 17:11:24 <lfm> and the hashes would only have like 15 significant digits left
1314 2011-01-27 17:11:34 <ArtForz> not to mention with that kind of compute power ECDSA256 sigs would be a bit... short
1315 2011-01-27 17:11:45 <lfm> digits -> bits
1316 2011-01-27 17:12:42 <ArtForz> ECDSA256 "only" takes about 2**128 steps average to break
1317 2011-01-27 17:13:19 <ArtForz> iirc biggest broken EC so far is 112 bit
1318 2011-01-27 17:14:35 <ArtForz> no big suprise there, 2**56 is a large number but quite feasible with a large distributed network
1319 2011-01-27 17:16:41 <ArtForz> if moores law continues to hold (doubtful), thats about 100 years left until EC256 is inadequate
1320 2011-01-27 17:17:54 <echelon> is that bitcoind project legit?
1321 2011-01-27 17:18:05 <ArtForz> well, it's still in the planning stages
1322 2011-01-27 17:18:09 <echelon> mining shares
1323 2011-01-27 17:18:21 <echelon> oh
1324 2011-01-27 17:18:45 <echelon> so no contributions yet?
1325 2011-01-27 17:18:58 <ArtForz> not too crazy really, iirc someone on the forum is already selling Ghps contracts
1326 2011-01-27 17:19:00 <lfm> it does have some of the signs of a penny stock scam
1327 2011-01-27 17:19:04 <echelon> err.. "investments"
1328 2011-01-27 17:19:10 citiz3n has joined
1329 2011-01-27 17:20:13 akem has joined
1330 2011-01-27 17:26:30 <hacim> there is no reason to think that interrupting a mining process and then starting it again will reduce the chances of solving a block is there? or is it progressing through a very defined set that would have to be restarted from the beginning?
1331 2011-01-27 17:26:42 <ArtForz> nope
1332 2011-01-27 17:26:58 <ArtForz> each attempt has the same chance of succeeding
1333 2011-01-27 17:27:18 <citiz3n> has there ever been talk of having optional statistics for bitcoin?
1334 2011-01-27 17:27:27 <citiz3n> allowing the clients to opt-in to a statistics reporting system
1335 2011-01-27 17:27:52 <citiz3n> could create organized teams and have daily stats, weekly, overall, etc
1336 2011-01-27 17:28:04 <citiz3n> like most distributed computing projects
1337 2011-01-27 17:28:06 <lfm> what stats?
1338 2011-01-27 17:28:17 <citiz3n> stats of how much work has been processed
1339 2011-01-27 17:28:34 <citiz3n> optionally you could report how many blocks have been discovered too, but that wouldn't even be necessary
1340 2011-01-27 17:28:41 <citiz3n> some quantification of work done
1341 2011-01-27 17:29:02 <lfm> most of that stuff is to do with motivational "points". since btc is money it provides its own motivation
1342 2011-01-27 17:29:25 <citiz3n> a much wider audience could be reached by having both
1343 2011-01-27 17:29:38 <citiz3n> and then you have the fun of competiting in teams, etc
1344 2011-01-27 17:29:51 <citiz3n> and competing against other individuals
1345 2011-01-27 17:29:59 <lfm> well feel free to do it but I dont think it matters to bitcoin
1346 2011-01-27 17:30:12 <hacim> anyone know where m0mchil's updated miner is? its not checked into his git hub repo
1347 2011-01-27 17:33:13 <hacim> oh they are there
1348 2011-01-27 17:34:29 <citiz3n> is there a way to run the regular bitcoin client in the background completely invisible?
1349 2011-01-27 17:34:41 <citiz3n> i don't want to mine, because my computers are used as office computers by employees so i don't want to slow them down
1350 2011-01-27 17:34:57 <citiz3n> but id rather not have any GUI - not even a system tray icon
1351 2011-01-27 17:35:00 <lfm> use bitcoind
1352 2011-01-27 17:35:06 <citiz3n> that's what i thought
1353 2011-01-27 17:35:20 <citiz3n> so i can run the daemon on each computer and have it connect to a daemon running as a server
1354 2011-01-27 17:35:26 <citiz3n> so all the work will dump into the server
1355 2011-01-27 17:35:38 <lfm> i thot you werent mining
1356 2011-01-27 17:36:10 <citiz3n> well, i don't know if you call it mining or not
1357 2011-01-27 17:36:23 <citiz3n> i just want to run something in the background that won't affect the usability of the windows-based computer at all
1358 2011-01-27 17:36:50 <citiz3n> a wasted cpu cycle is a terrible thing ;)
1359 2011-01-27 17:37:06 <lfm> well dot use bitcoin at all. it has disk files and net traffic, it is hardly stealth
1360 2011-01-27 17:38:02 <EvanR-work> anyone heard of ripple monetary system
1361 2011-01-27 17:38:05 <EvanR-work> opinions
1362 2011-01-27 17:38:13 <citiz3n> it doesn't need to be completely stealth - i just don't want users being able to shut it off
1363 2011-01-27 17:38:23 <lfm> economists are a dime a dozen
1364 2011-01-27 17:38:31 <citiz3n> or interfere with it  - if they can see it they will be like "what is this gold thing???"
1365 2011-01-27 17:38:42 <citiz3n> what they don't know can't hurt them
1366 2011-01-27 17:39:00 <ArtForz> whats wrong with servicifying jgarziks cpu miner?
1367 2011-01-27 17:39:20 <lfm> citiz3n not to mention what you are proposing is probably illegal
1368 2011-01-27 17:39:21 <citiz3n> that sounds like a good idea as long as it won't bog the system down
1369 2011-01-27 17:39:32 <citiz3n> they're my computers, lfm
1370 2011-01-27 17:39:37 <citiz3n> i can put whatever i like on them
1371 2011-01-27 17:40:05 <citiz3n> some office users get confused if their desktop icons are moved though
1372 2011-01-27 17:40:05 <EvanR-work> use the operating systems permission features
1373 2011-01-27 17:40:11 <EvanR-work> doesnt have any? ok
1374 2011-01-27 17:40:18 <lfm> well why bother to hide it then, just run it
1375 2011-01-27 17:40:24 <ArtForz> well, it'll still be inefficient as hell, ATI GPUs do the same work for about 1/10 the Wh
1376 2011-01-27 17:40:27 <citiz3n> so it's better they not even see it
1377 2011-01-27 17:40:48 <lfm> citiz3n use a different login for bitcoin
1378 2011-01-27 17:41:02 <citiz3n> i was thinking of sticking cards in there eventually
1379 2011-01-27 17:41:12 <citiz3n> but im not ready to invest any $$ into this - just trying it out for fun
1380 2011-01-27 17:41:25 <ArtForz> again, why even run a full node one ach box?
1381 2011-01-27 17:42:04 <citiz3n> hmm
1382 2011-01-27 17:42:19 <citiz3n> so you're saying even if i get like 2,000 khash/s out of each box it's not even worth it
1383 2011-01-27 17:42:31 <citiz3n> 10 computers
1384 2011-01-27 17:42:40 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 2000
1385 2011-01-27 17:42:41 <ArtForz> well.. a single $500 5970 is ~600Mh/s
1386 2011-01-27 17:42:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 1 year, 26 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes, and 51 seconds
1387 2011-01-27 17:42:42 <citiz3n> so 20 mhash
1388 2011-01-27 17:43:12 <ArtForz> or maybe $600 nowadays
1389 2011-01-27 17:43:44 <citiz3n> if i were to take one of the same computers, throw linux on it, and throw a mining program on it
1390 2011-01-27 17:43:50 <citiz3n> rather than the regular bitcoin client
1391 2011-01-27 17:43:54 andrew12 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1392 2011-01-27 17:44:05 <citiz3n> if i ran it full blown so that the computer couldn't be used for anything else
1393 2011-01-27 17:44:09 <citiz3n> what kind of rate might i expect
1394 2011-01-27 17:44:12 <ArtForz> no real speed difference using CPU
1395 2011-01-27 17:44:13 <lfm> citiz3n the os is pretty irrelevant
1396 2011-01-27 17:44:29 <citiz3n> so there aren't really any optimized mining clients for CPU
1397 2011-01-27 17:44:31 <citiz3n> only for GPU
1398 2011-01-27 17:44:38 <EvanR-work> there are
1399 2011-01-27 17:44:41 <EvanR-work> but cpu is way slower
1400 2011-01-27 17:44:47 <ArtForz> they are pretty well optimized as
1401 2011-01-27 17:44:52 testtest has joined
1402 2011-01-27 17:44:53 <lfm> they ARE optimized, just cpu is slow for bitcoin
1403 2011-01-27 17:44:57 <ArtForz> yep
1404 2011-01-27 17:45:02 <citiz3n> i see
1405 2011-01-27 17:45:26 <EvanR-work> that being said, you *might* get lucky and get 50 on a cpu ;)
1406 2011-01-27 17:45:28 <EvanR-work> after a few months
1407 2011-01-27 17:45:39 <citiz3n> hehe
1408 2011-01-27 17:45:50 <EvanR-work> we see unusually short duration blocks all the time
1409 2011-01-27 17:45:54 <EvanR-work> but also, unusually long
1410 2011-01-27 17:45:59 <lfm> $100 GPU is like 50 times faster than $500 cpu
1411 2011-01-27 17:46:20 <citiz3n> how many of you guys mine with GPUs?
1412 2011-01-27 17:46:23 <citiz3n> like 24/7
1413 2011-01-27 17:46:30 <ArtForz> *raises rand*
1414 2011-01-27 17:46:33 <lfm> how many dont
1415 2011-01-27 17:46:51 <EvanR-work> im about to start tomorrow
1416 2011-01-27 17:47:09 <citiz3n> anyoneone use windows miners?
1417 2011-01-27 17:47:22 <lfm> ya
1418 2011-01-27 17:47:26 <citiz3n> i have a number of windows servers that i could mine on - assuming the program isn't going to crash my boxes
1419 2011-01-27 17:47:28 <lfm> some people do
1420 2011-01-27 17:47:39 <lfm> it might crash
1421 2011-01-27 17:48:01 <citiz3n> hmm i can't have that
1422 2011-01-27 17:48:25 <lfm> no big deal there are prolly already a few viruses there
1423 2011-01-27 17:48:26 andrew12 has joined
1424 2011-01-27 17:48:36 <citiz3n> i have servers that haven't been restarted in forever
1425 2011-01-27 17:48:58 <ArtForz> well, in my book if it crashes at 100% cpu load, it's broken hardware
1426 2011-01-27 17:49:00 <citiz3n> windows itself is a virus :P
1427 2011-01-27 17:49:32 <citiz3n> as long as anything using the cpu is running at idle priority, and the software is stable
1428 2011-01-27 17:49:39 <citiz3n> there isn't anything wrong with the hardware
1429 2011-01-27 17:49:55 <ArtForz> iirc all current miners renice themselves to lowest priority atomatically
1430 2011-01-27 17:49:58 <ArtForz> +u
1431 2011-01-27 17:50:03 <lfm> prolly lots of viruses if you havnt been applying patches and rebooting
1432 2011-01-27 17:50:22 <citiz3n> kaspersky's pretty good, so they should be OK
1433 2011-01-27 17:50:36 <ArtForz> all depends on network topology
1434 2011-01-27 17:50:58 <citiz3n> the users don't download anything really
1435 2011-01-27 17:51:04 <citiz3n> they don't know how to use computers
1436 2011-01-27 17:51:09 <citiz3n> they just do office work
1437 2011-01-27 17:51:31 <ArtForz> if it's not externally reachable, a win2k box is decently secure...
1438 2011-01-27 17:51:51 <citiz3n> oh yeah - i would never have open ports to a windows server
1439 2011-01-27 17:51:54 <citiz3n> that's just asking for it
1440 2011-01-27 17:52:19 <lfm> um definition of server is it has some prots open
1441 2011-01-27 17:52:24 <ArtForz> depends
1442 2011-01-27 17:53:01 <ArtForz> doesnt have to mean "to the outside world"
1443 2011-01-27 17:53:41 <citiz3n> there's no need to have a windows server with a directly connected interface to the internet
1444 2011-01-27 17:53:47 <EvanR-work> open ports is irrelevant unless the network stack has bugs
1445 2011-01-27 17:53:54 <EvanR-work> does the machine host services
1446 2011-01-27 17:53:56 <ArtForz> a bunch of decently locked down workstations and a file/print/.. server on a LAN with no internet access *are* pretty secure ;)
1447 2011-01-27 17:54:14 <ArtForz> ... at least from online attacks
1448 2011-01-27 17:54:35 <citiz3n> i like to run firewall/nat/vpn on another box
1449 2011-01-27 17:54:43 <citiz3n> *nix box
1450 2011-01-27 17:57:08 <lfm> kinda seems to me its not the sort of system you want to run bitcoin on really
1451 2011-01-27 17:57:47 <EvanR-work> yeah
1452 2011-01-27 17:57:56 <EvanR-work> mission critical system ;)
1453 2011-01-27 17:58:23 <lfm> like your biggest security threat is probably YOU
1454 2011-01-27 18:00:06 <lfm> try bitcoin at home on a game machine or something first and get a better idea what its like
1455 2011-01-27 18:10:13 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1456 2011-01-27 18:11:53 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1457 2011-01-27 18:20:15 <EvanR-work> im learning about fractional reserve banking
1458 2011-01-27 18:20:39 Myckel has joined
1459 2011-01-27 18:24:41 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1460 2011-01-27 18:27:48 davex__ has joined
1461 2011-01-27 18:27:51 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1462 2011-01-27 18:28:36 <lfm> EvanR-work: amazing aint it?
1463 2011-01-27 18:29:26 <citiz3n> money, unfortunately, is an imperfect system
1464 2011-01-27 18:29:29 <EvanR-work> yes
1465 2011-01-27 18:29:33 <EvanR-work> sounds lucrative ;)
1466 2011-01-27 18:29:40 <citiz3n> haha, it's very
1467 2011-01-27 18:29:54 <lfm> ya dam bankers sure have it easy
1468 2011-01-27 18:30:02 <citiz3n> even gold and silver - finite resources and actual tangible commodities
1469 2011-01-27 18:30:06 <citiz3n> are also imperfect
1470 2011-01-27 18:30:59 <citiz3n> we'd be a lot better off using them and keeping a standard
1471 2011-01-27 18:31:11 <citiz3n> so that money can't be created out of thin air like it is every second of every day
1472 2011-01-27 18:31:52 <EvanR-work> you advocate using gold notes?
1473 2011-01-27 18:32:16 <citiz3n> it would be better in my opinion
1474 2011-01-27 18:32:23 <lfm> I dunno, gold is kinda heavy to lug around. I dont think Id wanna buy a new car with gold
1475 2011-01-27 18:32:31 <citiz3n> i don't advocate any forced monetary system
1476 2011-01-27 18:32:39 <citiz3n> i like voluntary monetary systems
1477 2011-01-27 18:32:51 <citiz3n> the Liberty Dollar was a great concept
1478 2011-01-27 18:33:06 <citiz3n> it was raided and the precious metals were stolen, but it was good while it lasted
1479 2011-01-27 18:33:07 <EvanR-work> USD is voluntary
1480 2011-01-27 18:33:22 echelon has joined
1481 2011-01-27 18:33:30 <citiz3n> but it's also coercive unfortunately
1482 2011-01-27 18:33:32 <lfm> the guy was a conman
1483 2011-01-27 18:33:43 <citiz3n> how do you figure, lfm?
1484 2011-01-27 18:34:05 <EvanR-work> ah someone agrees with me ;)
1485 2011-01-27 18:34:12 <EvanR-work> some here say he was a visionary
1486 2011-01-27 18:34:21 <lfm> he was trying to pass of his own minted gold coins as us treasury coins
1487 2011-01-27 18:34:42 <EvanR-work> not really, he attempted to explicitly state they werent legal tender
1488 2011-01-27 18:34:43 <citiz3n> he may have made his mistake by putting a face on them
1489 2011-01-27 18:34:49 <EvanR-work> however they look very similar, that was stupid
1490 2011-01-27 18:34:54 <citiz3n> but they didn't look like any particular US coin
1491 2011-01-27 18:35:16 <citiz3n> they also had a website URL and 888 number on them
1492 2011-01-27 18:35:17 <EvanR-work> people dont know the full extent of all the coins, so they might think its a coin they havent seen before
1493 2011-01-27 18:36:00 <citiz3n> people see "Federal Reserve Note" every day
1494 2011-01-27 18:36:03 <citiz3n> and think it's federal
1495 2011-01-27 18:36:17 <lfm> I suspect he was trying to run a fractional gold reserve and came up short
1496 2011-01-27 18:36:17 <citiz3n> that it's associated with some reserve of a physical commodity
1497 2011-01-27 18:36:35 <citiz3n> do you have anything to back that up, lfm?
1498 2011-01-27 18:36:38 <EvanR-work> if that was true the government should have charged him with something
1499 2011-01-27 18:36:44 <EvanR-work> and had a trial
1500 2011-01-27 18:36:44 <citiz3n> it's a possibility, but i have never heard of anything that suggests that
1501 2011-01-27 18:36:50 <lfm> I dont and neither did he
1502 2011-01-27 18:36:53 <EvanR-work> citiz3n: you mean, except from the government
1503 2011-01-27 18:37:16 <citiz3n> the federal reserve is not a part of our government
1504 2011-01-27 18:37:25 <EvanR-work> the hell it is
1505 2011-01-27 18:37:34 <EvanR-work> nt
1506 2011-01-27 18:37:37 <citiz3n> i said it is NOT a part of government
1507 2011-01-27 18:37:40 <citiz3n> true story
1508 2011-01-27 18:37:45 <Cusipzzz> it's private
1509 2011-01-27 18:37:45 <EvanR-work> thats just marketting
1510 2011-01-27 18:37:51 sneak has joined
1511 2011-01-27 18:37:53 <citiz3n> private - correct
1512 2011-01-27 18:37:54 <EvanR-work> its like saying japan isnt a state of the union
1513 2011-01-27 18:38:02 <lfm> it RUNS the governement
1514 2011-01-27 18:38:18 sneak is now known as Guest60343
1515 2011-01-27 18:38:20 <citiz3n> it runs the United States of America corporation
1516 2011-01-27 18:38:29 <EvanR-work> sounds governmental
1517 2011-01-27 18:38:34 <lfm> so they are together
1518 2011-01-27 18:38:35 <citiz3n> but the argument could be well-made that that particular corporation isn't governmental either
1519 2011-01-27 18:38:57 <EvanR-work> its established what a government is like
1520 2011-01-27 18:39:04 <EvanR-work> 'you know one when you see one'
1521 2011-01-27 18:39:06 <lfm> proof, you just admitted it
1522 2011-01-27 18:39:37 <Cusipzzz> liberty dollar was pretty much a scam and a pozni all along...L Ron Hubbard would have been proud
1523 2011-01-27 18:39:58 <EvanR-work> another skeptic
1524 2011-01-27 18:40:13 <EvanR-work> i thought it was a scam when he tried to sell liberty dollars to me in 2004
1525 2011-01-27 18:40:20 <citiz3n> Bernard Von Nothaus never struck me as a scammer
1526 2011-01-27 18:40:36 <citiz3n> misunderstood, definitely
1527 2011-01-27 18:40:48 <citiz3n> but ponzi scheme?
1528 2011-01-27 18:41:02 <Cusipzzz> well, multi level marketing - which is not far from a ponzi
1529 2011-01-27 18:41:06 <citiz3n> i would be very surprised if the currency he developed was not backed as he said it was
1530 2011-01-27 18:41:08 <lfm> however when a bank runs a fractional reserve its not a ponzi scheme at all, nope it sez right there its perfectly legit and legal
1531 2011-01-27 18:41:17 <citiz3n> it wasn't MLM to my knowledge
1532 2011-01-27 18:41:34 <Cusipzzz> the scheme of discounts and re-basing is pure MLM /fraud
1533 2011-01-27 18:41:41 <EvanR-work> doesnt fractional reserve banking make the economy run smoother
1534 2011-01-27 18:41:46 <EvanR-work> more credit
1535 2011-01-27 18:42:24 <lfm> EvanR-work: ponzi schemes make the economy run smoother too, at least for the administrator
1536 2011-01-27 18:42:43 <EvanR-work> i was taking the perspective of a borrower
1537 2011-01-27 18:42:48 <lfm> untill they break down at least
1538 2011-01-27 18:43:10 <EvanR-work> id like to have money which doesnt exist, make a profit, and pay it back
1539 2011-01-27 18:43:45 <EvanR-work> strawman without that id have to deliver 97 chickens before i could start business
1540 2011-01-27 18:45:17 <lfm> "fractional reserve" is exactly the same concept as "ponzi scheme". just the banks are better at it so they dont get caught short as often
1541 2011-01-27 18:46:19 <lfm> and they have managed to make their way legal and the other guys way illegal
1542 2011-01-27 18:47:12 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1543 2011-01-27 18:49:23 <slush> ;;bc,stats
1544 2011-01-27 18:49:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 104896 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 1951 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 2 hours, 52 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 23076.97386519
1545 2011-01-27 18:50:17 andrew12^mac has joined
1546 2011-01-27 18:51:57 mtgox has joined
1547 2011-01-27 18:54:42 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1548 2011-01-27 18:55:24 tg has joined
1549 2011-01-27 18:57:36 <andrew12^mac> woo
1550 2011-01-27 18:57:41 <andrew12^mac> just got 2 shares :p
1551 2011-01-27 18:58:06 <andrew12^mac> (for the pool)
1552 2011-01-27 19:01:12 ducki2p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1553 2011-01-27 19:01:51 ducki2p has joined
1554 2011-01-27 19:01:57 <citiz3n> i think the liberty dollar was a fantastic idea
1555 2011-01-27 19:02:30 <citiz3n> it was pretty rotten for the gov't to shut it down with force
1556 2011-01-27 19:02:45 <citiz3n> if the liberty dollar was doing something illegal, then take them to trial
1557 2011-01-27 19:03:05 <citiz3n> but don't go in and snatch everything up just to put them out of business because they are competing with you
1558 2011-01-27 19:04:08 <Cusipzzz> they had an injunction, and an indictment.. that allowed them to take everything away
1559 2011-01-27 19:04:57 <Cusipzzz> if i starting printing US dollars, you can bet they will confiscate the printing plates well before a full trial/conviction
1560 2011-01-27 19:05:34 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1561 2011-01-27 19:05:42 <citiz3n> he was never printing US dollars
1562 2011-01-27 19:05:57 <citiz3n> his paper money looked nothing like greenbacks
1563 2011-01-27 19:06:11 <citiz3n> they were brightly colored with different colors, different shapes, silver emblem, etc
1564 2011-01-27 19:06:23 tg has joined
1565 2011-01-27 19:06:47 <citiz3n> not in any stretch of imagination could they be confused with federal reserve notes
1566 2011-01-27 19:06:53 <citiz3n> even to a blind man
1567 2011-01-27 19:08:15 <citiz3n> he used the $ on his stuff
1568 2011-01-27 19:08:20 <citiz3n> as a suggested trading value
1569 2011-01-27 19:08:32 <citiz3n> but i don't think that can be illegal
1570 2011-01-27 19:08:55 <citiz3n> if i scribble a dollar sign on toilet paper and you trade me it for a popsicle stick
1571 2011-01-27 19:08:59 <citiz3n> i don't think we've broken any laws
1572 2011-01-27 19:09:11 <Cusipzzz> he wasnt indicted for counterfitting, i believe it was mail fraud and other charges
1573 2011-01-27 19:09:54 <citiz3n> it all came down to him competing with the federal reserve though
1574 2011-01-27 19:10:00 sabalaba has joined
1575 2011-01-27 19:10:09 <citiz3n> i never saw any accusations of him defrauding people by not fulfilling orders, etc
1576 2011-01-27 19:10:30 <citiz3n> or by overcharging people
1577 2011-01-27 19:10:32 <citiz3n> or sending them fake silver
1578 2011-01-27 19:10:42 <Cusipzzz> did you read the indictment ? mail fraud is pretty broad
1579 2011-01-27 19:10:47 <citiz3n> his silver was .999 fine and his gold .9999
1580 2011-01-27 19:10:58 akem has joined
1581 2011-01-27 19:11:07 <citiz3n> i read it a long time ago, but i don't remember the particulars
1582 2011-01-27 19:11:23 <citiz3n> i just remember it going on and on about how his medallions had "Trust in God" on them
1583 2011-01-27 19:11:37 <citiz3n> and how they were tricking people, etc
1584 2011-01-27 19:11:45 <citiz3n> because they could be mistaken for a US coin
1585 2011-01-27 19:11:59 <citiz3n> i shouldn't say US coin
1586 2011-01-27 19:12:05 <citiz3n> i should say federal reserve coin
1587 2011-01-27 19:12:22 <Cusipzzz> well, my memory is a bit fuzzy too, but turning this into a ruby ridge waco jackboot thing is completely off.. he was indicted and they havd a valid injunction
1588 2011-01-27 19:13:25 <citiz3n> if by valid you mean a judge signed off on it, yes im sure
1589 2011-01-27 19:13:27 <Cusipzzz> and he wasn't just redeeming, there was a discount and distribution scheme that was very ponzi/MLM like
1590 2011-01-27 19:13:44 <citiz3n> it was a product, just like all money is
1591 2011-01-27 19:14:04 <citiz3n> there has to be compensation for selling it
1592 2011-01-27 19:14:12 <citiz3n> he wasn't operating a charity
1593 2011-01-27 19:14:52 <citiz3n> if silver spot was 15, his distributor could buy a round at like 17
1594 2011-01-27 19:14:57 <citiz3n> a dealer at like 18.5
1595 2011-01-27 19:15:00 <citiz3n> and sell it for 20
1596 2011-01-27 19:15:07 <citiz3n> everyone is compensated a little
1597 2011-01-27 19:15:20 <citiz3n> those are very slim margins
1598 2011-01-27 19:15:28 <citiz3n> most products do not have such slim margins
1599 2011-01-27 19:15:35 <Cusipzzz> well, there's an incentive for fraud based on the different levels. i think that's where the mail fraud came from
1600 2011-01-27 19:15:51 <citiz3n> what is constituting fraud though?
1601 2011-01-27 19:16:07 <citiz3n> fraud would be bait-and-switch for example
1602 2011-01-27 19:16:16 <citiz3n> or i take your money and don't give you anything in return
1603 2011-01-27 19:16:33 <Cusipzzz> i'd have to re-read it, been a while..but it could be misrepresenting how the flows and levels work, not being transparent
1604 2011-01-27 19:17:44 <citiz3n> maybe they'll say the same of bitcoin
1605 2011-01-27 19:17:57 <Cusipzzz> heard of herbalife? they've gone thru similar ..MLM, mail fraud, etc.
1606 2011-01-27 19:18:23 <Cusipzzz> ah, but there are no levels for bitcoins, and nobody pulling the string like he did
1607 2011-01-27 19:18:26 <citiz3n> with liberty dollar there wasn't any kind of compensation for signing up resellers, etc
1608 2011-01-27 19:18:37 <citiz3n> it wasn't MLM for that reason - wasn't a pyramid structure
1609 2011-01-27 19:18:44 <citiz3n> it was just manufacturer > distributor > reseller
1610 2011-01-27 19:18:50 <citiz3n> like most businesses
1611 2011-01-27 19:19:43 <citiz3n> that i do clearly remember, because i made a number of transactions with distributors
1612 2011-01-27 19:20:55 <citiz3n> i think the fed just got worried because it was getting more and more popular
1613 2011-01-27 19:21:00 <citiz3n> silver is a pretty metal
1614 2011-01-27 19:21:04 <citiz3n> when you give it to people they like it
1615 2011-01-27 19:21:13 <citiz3n> it was catching on very well
1616 2011-01-27 19:21:22 <citiz3n> and had to be stopped
1617 2011-01-27 19:21:37 <citiz3n> can't have anyone successful at competing with the federal reserve
1618 2011-01-27 19:23:19 <Cusipzzz> that's may be part of it, but he pretty clearly broke the rules with the various distribution schemes
1619 2011-01-27 19:24:03 <Cusipzzz> i just don't think he was a saint, and got busted for cutting corners if not outright fraud
1620 2011-01-27 19:25:34 <citiz3n> i only met him and had dinner with him once, so i couldn't tell you if that's true or not
1621 2011-01-27 19:25:52 <citiz3n> but from what i saw him doing on the internet/etc - nothing ever raised flags with me
1622 2011-01-27 19:25:56 <citiz3n> seemed pretty straight forward
1623 2011-01-27 19:26:32 <necrodearia> Yay!  http://witcoin.com/   - Would anyone like to try this and offer feedback?
1624 2011-01-27 19:26:39 <andrew12^mac> hm
1625 2011-01-27 19:26:42 <andrew12^mac> ,plugins hostname
1626 2011-01-27 19:26:45 <andrew12^mac> er
1627 2011-01-27 19:26:48 <andrew12^mac> ;;plugins hostname
1628 2011-01-27 19:26:48 <gribble> Error: There is no command "hostname".
1629 2011-01-27 19:26:54 <andrew12^mac> ;;hostname andrew12^mac
1630 2011-01-27 19:26:55 <gribble> Error: "hostname" is not a valid command.
1631 2011-01-27 19:26:57 <andrew12^mac> you lie
1632 2011-01-27 19:27:04 <andrew12^mac> ;;apropos host
1633 2011-01-27 19:27:05 <gribble> Services ghost, User hostmask, User hostmask add, User hostmask list, and User hostmask remove
1634 2011-01-27 19:27:10 <andrew12^mac> hostMASK
1635 2011-01-27 19:27:14 <necrodearia> andrew12^mac, Maybe spam in #supybot-bots?
1636 2011-01-27 19:27:44 <necrodearia> That channel is set up specifically for that purpose.
1637 2011-01-27 19:27:56 <andrew12^mac> that's probably a good idea, but i just needed that command :p
1638 2011-01-27 19:28:15 <necrodearia> Also yuo can send private message to gribble
1639 2011-01-27 19:29:16 <Cusipzzz> citiz3n: fair enough
1640 2011-01-27 19:34:43 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1641 2011-01-27 19:35:41 <EvanR-work> liberty dollars was my first taste of potential fraud, made me more paranoid ;)
1642 2011-01-27 19:35:57 <Cusipzzz> EvanR-work: you missed egold?
1643 2011-01-27 19:36:08 <EvanR-work> when was ugold
1644 2011-01-27 19:36:10 <EvanR-work> egold
1645 2011-01-27 19:36:28 <Cusipzzz> few years ago
1646 2011-01-27 19:36:37 <devon_hillard> 30GH/s, the slush pool is eating up those MIPS
1647 2011-01-27 19:36:51 <Cusipzzz> fell apart 2007 i think
1648 2011-01-27 19:36:53 malfy has joined
1649 2011-01-27 19:37:00 <devon_hillard> 1/5 of the total so far?
1650 2011-01-27 19:37:06 <Kiba> hello folks
1651 2011-01-27 19:37:24 <slush> devon_hillard: whole network is around 200ghash
1652 2011-01-27 19:37:57 <EvanR-work> no i was out of it for the last few years
1653 2011-01-27 19:38:04 <EvanR-work> bitcoin was the first time i heard about egold
1654 2011-01-27 19:38:31 <Cusipzzz> ahh, gotcha..got pretty big before the feds took it down. granted they openly flaunted money laundering regs
1655 2011-01-27 19:40:10 <devon_hillard> it's also an interesting way to buy gold via mtgox and liberty reserve
1656 2011-01-27 19:40:46 <Cusipzzz> if fact that same indictment would work well vs bitcoin, the public exchangers at least.
1657 2011-01-27 19:40:57 <Cusipzzz> if the feds ever got interested
1658 2011-01-27 19:41:44 <Cusipzzz> i hope mtgox is scouting for new residence in antigua or costa rica :)
1659 2011-01-27 19:42:58 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1660 2011-01-27 19:43:51 tg has joined
1661 2011-01-27 19:44:06 kermit has joined
1662 2011-01-27 19:47:04 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1663 2011-01-27 19:47:49 tg has joined
1664 2011-01-27 19:52:29 RazielZ has quit ()
1665 2011-01-27 19:52:43 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1666 2011-01-27 19:54:20 tg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1667 2011-01-27 19:54:57 tg has joined
1668 2011-01-27 20:13:04 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1669 2011-01-27 20:13:30 <ArtForz> erm, iirc mtgox is based in costa rica
1670 2011-01-27 20:14:15 <Kiba> really?
1671 2011-01-27 20:14:25 <Cusipzzz> ArtForz: the site maybe, not the person :)
1672 2011-01-27 20:14:33 <Cusipzzz> that is a risk
1673 2011-01-27 20:14:36 <ArtForz> http://www.gaceta.go.cr/pub/2010/09/24/COMP_24_09_2010.html
1674 2011-01-27 20:14:58 <Kiba> bencoder: your site had been stagnating for weeks
1675 2011-01-27 20:15:04 <Kiba> ;;seen bencoder
1676 2011-01-27 20:15:04 <gribble> bencoder was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 10 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <bencoder> s/bitcoins/blocks
1677 2011-01-27 20:15:14 <ArtForz> Por escritura número veintisiete de las doce horas del tres de setiembre del dos mil diez, otorgada ante la notaria María José Chaves Cavallini, se constituyó la sociedad Pongamia Cultivation Institute Sociedad Anónima, con un capital social de cien dólares dividido en cien acciones comunes y nominativas de un dólar cada una.—Lic. María José Chaves Cavallini, Notaria.—1 vez.—RP2010195830.—(IN2010076179).
1678 2011-01-27 20:15:14 <bencoder> it's still working :P
1679 2011-01-27 20:21:54 <ArtForz> ;;bc,mtgox
1680 2011-01-27 20:21:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.45,"low":0.4,"vol":35040,"buy":0.4151,"sell":0.45,"last":0.45}}
1681 2011-01-27 20:22:32 <ArtForz> oi
1682 2011-01-27 20:31:21 * andrew12^mac just found http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin when he was going to try to make it
1683 2011-01-27 20:31:28 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1684 2011-01-27 20:33:08 <echelon> anyone know what the rates are for liberty reserves?
1685 2011-01-27 20:33:14 <echelon> i dunno how to read bsrates.com
1686 2011-01-27 20:33:39 <midnightmagic_> what rates?
1687 2011-01-27 20:34:12 <echelon> it doesn't say what the US$ value is
1688 2011-01-27 20:35:01 <ArtForz> errr. huh?
1689 2011-01-27 20:35:21 <echelon> you guys don't use liberty reserves?
1690 2011-01-27 20:35:26 <ArtForz> sure do
1691 2011-01-27 20:35:52 <EvanR-work> echelon: its 1$ 1$, they charge for transfers
1692 2011-01-27 20:36:01 <echelon> hmm
1693 2011-01-27 20:36:04 <ArtForz> LR$ is pinned to USD, so 1LR$ = 1USD - exchange fees
1694 2011-01-27 20:36:15 <midnightmagic_> i thought the idea was each LR is pegged to 1USD sitting in a vault somewhere..?
1695 2011-01-27 20:36:20 <ArtForz> yep
1696 2011-01-27 20:36:37 <midnightmagic_> i would laugh pretty hard if the vault was empty.
1697 2011-01-27 20:36:38 <echelon> ok, i should read up on it
1698 2011-01-27 20:36:56 <midnightmagic_> "LR vault empty! LR trading on air!"
1699 2011-01-27 20:37:19 sabalaba has joined
1700 2011-01-27 20:38:59 <EvanR-work> the money supply looks like a joke anyway
1701 2011-01-27 20:39:20 <ArtForz> ?
1702 2011-01-27 20:39:26 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
1703 2011-01-27 20:39:35 <luke-jr> USD, air. same thing
1704 2011-01-27 20:39:38 <ArtForz> yep
1705 2011-01-27 20:39:45 <andrew12> haha
1706 2011-01-27 20:39:56 <EvanR-work> ArtForz: fractional reserve banking
1707 2011-01-27 20:40:04 <andrew12> money is any object :P
1708 2011-01-27 20:40:09 <ArtForz> yep
1709 2011-01-27 20:40:22 <ArtForz> so you want a full reserve currency backed by a fractional reserve currency... uhm. yeah.
1710 2011-01-27 20:40:33 <midnightmagic_> metamoney
1711 2011-01-27 20:40:40 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1712 2011-01-27 20:40:45 <andrew12> meta-bitcoin!
1713 2011-01-27 20:40:45 <EvanR-work> not necessarily physical object ;)
1714 2011-01-27 20:40:49 <midnightmagic_> metametamoney
1715 2011-01-27 20:40:51 <ArtForz> s/want/got/
1716 2011-01-27 20:41:13 <EvanR-work> cycle "meta" ++ "money"
1717 2011-01-27 20:41:38 <ArtForz> well, actually, proving that you're not running fractional reserve behind the scenes is actually pretty hard without public accounting
1718 2011-01-27 20:44:45 <andrew12> ;;bc,mtgox
1719 2011-01-27 20:44:46 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.45,"low":0.4,"vol":35040,"buy":0.4211,"sell":0.45,"last":0.45}}
1720 2011-01-27 20:46:38 <ArtForz> looks like someone bought about 20kBTC @ 0.42 .. 0.45 in one transaction
1721 2011-01-27 20:48:07 <Kiba> 12 K USD O_o
1722 2011-01-27 20:48:46 <midnightmagic_> yeah!
1723 2011-01-27 20:49:16 <ArtForz> yup, single transaction
1724 2011-01-27 20:49:41 <ArtForz> date 1296155808 http://www.mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php
1725 2011-01-27 20:51:58 <ArtForz> 23800 BTC, ~ 10454.66 USD
1726 2011-01-27 21:00:52 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1727 2011-01-27 21:01:59 <andrew12^mac> hey guys. lets put bitcoins in bitx so we have bitbitcoins
1728 2011-01-27 21:03:03 <luke-jr> wtf is bitx?
1729 2011-01-27 21:05:03 <andrew12^mac> using other things like web domains as winnings
1730 2011-01-27 21:05:07 <andrew12^mac> ergo BitDNS
1731 2011-01-27 21:05:19 <ArtForz> a bit, with a x to make it more xtreme *ducks*
1732 2011-01-27 21:05:32 <Cusipzzz> lol
1733 2011-01-27 21:07:23 <EvanR-work> i lost so bad at the card game i lost my website
1734 2011-01-27 21:09:59 <andrew12^mac> and i lost the game
1735 2011-01-27 21:10:15 <andrew12^mac> *so hard*
1736 2011-01-27 21:11:59 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1737 2011-01-27 21:14:35 <Cusipzzz> it's like drag racingfor pink slips... playing cards for DNS real estate
1738 2011-01-27 21:15:10 <luke-jr> is BitDNS actually working?
1739 2011-01-27 21:16:50 <andrew12^mac> no
1740 2011-01-27 21:17:02 <andrew12^mac> afaik
1741 2011-01-27 21:17:34 <luke-jr> andrew12^mac: help me test Capitalism?
1742 2011-01-27 21:17:41 <luke-jr> http://www.linux-ecke.de/Capitalism/
1743 2011-01-27 21:18:06 <andrew12^mac> hm
1744 2011-01-27 21:18:07 <andrew12^mac> sure
1745 2011-01-27 21:19:07 <luke-jr> I'm in one of the public servers
1746 2011-01-27 21:19:30 <andrew12^mac> i gotta compile it cuz i'm on mac
1747 2011-01-27 21:19:38 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 10000
1748 2011-01-27 21:19:39 <luke-jr> meh :p
1749 2011-01-27 21:19:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 15 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 11 minutes, and 34 seconds
1750 2011-01-27 21:19:44 <luke-jr> I compiled in like 5 seconds
1751 2011-01-27 21:19:46 <luke-jr> qmake && make -j5
1752 2011-01-27 21:20:13 <luke-jr> so far… let's take some notes:
1753 2011-01-27 21:20:16 <andrew12^mac> for me its qmake && xcodebuild
1754 2011-01-27 21:20:27 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 70000
1755 2011-01-27 21:20:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 70000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 10 minutes, and 13 seconds
1756 2011-01-27 21:20:35 <luke-jr> - Pre-game screen should show a bitcoin address to fund your player
1757 2011-01-27 21:20:42 <andrew12^mac> ;;bc,calc 9000000
1758 2011-01-27 21:20:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 9000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 4 seconds
1759 2011-01-27 21:20:43 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 400000
1760 2011-01-27 21:20:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 2 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes, and 17 seconds
1761 2011-01-27 21:20:56 <luke-jr> should games have minimums/limits on pre-game funding?
1762 2011-01-27 21:21:23 <andrew12^mac> i dont think so
1763 2011-01-27 21:21:50 <andrew12^mac> though it should wait at least 1 block before starting
1764 2011-01-27 21:21:55 <luke-jr> why?
1765 2011-01-27 21:22:02 <andrew12^mac> verification
1766 2011-01-27 21:22:27 <luke-jr> hmm
1767 2011-01-27 21:23:00 <andrew12^mac> yep, just as i expected
1768 2011-01-27 21:23:04 <andrew12^mac> didnt compile right
1769 2011-01-27 21:23:05 <andrew12^mac> :(
1770 2011-01-27 21:23:08 <luke-jr> -.-
1771 2011-01-27 21:25:45 <luke-jr> so you're not coming?
1772 2011-01-27 21:27:04 <andrew12^mac> i can't :(
1773 2011-01-27 21:27:37 <andrew12> ohey
1774 2011-01-27 21:27:38 <andrew12> win32
1775 2011-01-27 21:29:04 <luke-jr> …
1776 2011-01-27 21:29:06 <luke-jr> seriously
1777 2011-01-27 21:29:07 <luke-jr> get a real OS
1778 2011-01-27 21:29:26 <andrew12> I have archlinux on here too
1779 2011-01-27 21:29:27 <andrew12> i just don't use it
1780 2011-01-27 21:30:08 <EvanR-work> again, get a real OS ;)
1781 2011-01-27 21:30:36 <newsham> evanr: http://mirtchovski.com/p9/plan9-guru.gif
1782 2011-01-27 21:30:58 <ArtForz> OS/2 Merlin?
1783 2011-01-27 21:31:21 <andrew12> luke-jr: which server
1784 2011-01-27 21:31:42 <andrew12> nvm
1785 2011-01-27 21:32:13 <newsham> why do pools like slush's wait for confirmation before giving out shares of the booty?  cant they just make a transaction based on the 50btc they "won" and if it turns out they didnt win it after all, then those transactions will be invalid anyway?
1786 2011-01-27 21:32:22 <ArtForz> nope
1787 2011-01-27 21:32:33 <ArtForz> unmatured coinbases are invalid
1788 2011-01-27 21:32:40 <ArtForz> you can't use them in transactions at all
1789 2011-01-27 21:32:44 <newsham> ah
1790 2011-01-27 21:33:54 <luke-jr> andrew12^mac: will need some way to set the prices in the game
1791 2011-01-27 21:34:05 <luke-jr> newsham: I already asked that :P
1792 2011-01-27 21:34:27 <newsham> lukejr: i was not paying attention then
1793 2011-01-27 21:34:32 <ArtForz> random crap: I have a OS/2 4.0 CD-R labeled "IBM Confidental" and autographed by the dev team leads :P
1794 2011-01-27 21:34:45 <newsham> luke: please send me a list of other questions I will ask that you have already goten an answer to
1795 2011-01-27 21:34:48 <luke-jr> :p
1796 2011-01-27 21:35:03 <citiz3n> would anyone like to trade memorex BD-R discs for btc?
1797 2011-01-27 21:35:47 <EvanR-work> maybe ask in #bitcoin-otc
1798 2011-01-27 21:36:40 lfm_ has joined
1799 2011-01-27 21:37:41 <ArtForz> on a similar note, 4.0 was supposed to be officially named Merlin instead of Warp, but ibm got a nastygram from disney...
1800 2011-01-27 21:37:42 <citiz3n> wb, lfm
1801 2011-01-27 21:38:12 <EvanR-work> ok
1802 2011-01-27 21:38:19 <EvanR-work> so merlin is now trademarked by disney
1803 2011-01-27 21:38:24 <EvanR-work> i suppose so is montana?
1804 2011-01-27 21:38:41 <ArtForz> probably, yes
1805 2011-01-27 21:38:48 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1806 2011-01-27 21:38:53 lfm_ is now known as lfm
1807 2011-01-27 21:39:02 <citiz3n> winamp randomization leaves something to be desired
1808 2011-01-27 21:39:07 <EvanR-work> youre supposed to not be able to enforce your trademarks outside the scope they were registered in
1809 2011-01-27 21:39:11 <citiz3n> that's the third time kid rock and bob marley came up
1810 2011-01-27 21:39:13 <citiz3n> grrr :P
1811 2011-01-27 21:39:35 <EvanR-work> i.e. animated movie -> computer OS, stupid ass teen idol -> state name
1812 2011-01-27 21:39:40 <ArtForz> yep
1813 2011-01-27 21:39:51 <ArtForz> try telling that spineless corporate laywers
1814 2011-01-27 21:40:03 <EvanR-work> or we would all be paying microsoft even more than we already are for the number of windows we have
1815 2011-01-27 21:40:30 satamusic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1816 2011-01-27 21:42:29 <ArtForz> I dont think there ever was any official statement on it, but I remember the last minute s/Merlin/Warp/
1817 2011-01-27 21:44:00 <ArtForz> everyone thought the name change was stupid
1818 2011-01-27 21:44:06 <newsham> i want a signed copy of 1st edition on tape
1819 2011-01-27 21:44:20 <luke-jr> andrew12^mac: probably, we need to allow other players to force a bankruptcy after 5 minutes
1820 2011-01-27 21:45:51 <newsham> luke; making a game?
1821 2011-01-27 21:46:32 <luke-jr> newsham: more like making Monopoly played in bitcoins
1822 2011-01-27 21:46:50 <newsham> sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen
1823 2011-01-27 21:46:59 <luke-jr> s/Monopoly/Atlantic/ :P
1824 2011-01-27 21:47:07 <newsham> (parker brothers is litigious)
1825 2011-01-27 21:47:09 <luke-jr> or maybe something custom
1826 2011-01-27 21:47:10 <EvanR-work> it would suck to have to do a bitcoin transaction for each transaction
1827 2011-01-27 21:47:21 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: nah, you send to server at start, and it sends back at end
1828 2011-01-27 21:47:22 <EvanR-work> or do you mean win bitcoins at the end of the game
1829 2011-01-27 21:47:56 <newsham> do you have to wait 10min+ for the server to confirm the xfer?
1830 2011-01-27 21:48:21 <luke-jr> newsham: 10 +/- :p
1831 2011-01-27 21:48:33 <EvanR-work> do you send the server 1500 coins xD
1832 2011-01-27 21:48:39 <andrew12> no
1833 2011-01-27 21:48:40 <andrew12> like 2
1834 2011-01-27 21:48:42 <luke-jr> 1500 TBC
1835 2011-01-27 21:48:43 <newsham> re monopoly: http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa121997.htm
1836 2011-01-27 21:48:49 <andrew12> it would be played with tonal so you have more
1837 2011-01-27 21:48:50 <andrew12> lol
1838 2011-01-27 21:48:54 <luke-jr> ☺
1839 2011-01-27 21:48:58 <EvanR-work> >_>
1840 2011-01-27 21:48:59 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1841 2011-01-27 21:49:01 <newsham> can users buy in way ahead of time, keep it in the game server, and request pay out at some later point?
1842 2011-01-27 21:49:13 <andrew12> newsham: ideally :p
1843 2011-01-27 21:49:36 <newsham> is the buyin/payout fixed?
1844 2011-01-27 21:49:56 <newsham> cause BTC value seems to be volatile
1845 2011-01-27 21:50:44 <EvanR-work> pretty expensive buyin
1846 2011-01-27 21:51:02 <andrew12> luke-jr: you gonna do something?
1847 2011-01-27 21:51:15 <andrew12> Game paused, Luke-Jr owes 408 but is not solvent. Player needs to raise 78 in cash first.
1848 2011-01-27 21:51:15 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: 2000 TBC is like 5.4 BTC :P
1849 2011-01-27 21:51:27 <EvanR-work> wtf is TBC, TBTC, etc
1850 2011-01-27 21:51:38 <EvanR-work> this is making it harder to understand bitcoins
1851 2011-01-27 21:51:38 <andrew12> TBTC is Testnet Bitcoin
1852 2011-01-27 21:51:42 <andrew12> TBC is Tonal Bitcoin
1853 2011-01-27 21:51:57 <luke-jr> TNBTC is Testnet
1854 2011-01-27 21:52:03 <luke-jr> TBTC is ambiguous :p
1855 2011-01-27 21:52:26 <EvanR-work> bitcoins is supposed to make money easier not harder
1856 2011-01-27 21:52:32 <newsham> luke: how about this for a game?  an auction for 20BTC, but both the winner and the runner up must pay their last bid, with the 20BTC going only to the winner
1857 2011-01-27 21:52:40 <luke-jr> newsham: buyin is fixed by other players' willingness to start with you
1858 2011-01-27 21:52:47 <luke-jr> newsham: payout is max combined payin
1859 2011-01-27 21:53:02 <andrew12> i love how this game pretty much plays itself
1860 2011-01-27 21:53:10 <luke-jr> lol
1861 2011-01-27 21:53:17 <citiz3n> are there any payment modules for popular shopping carts
1862 2011-01-27 21:53:19 <citiz3n> for bitcoin?
1863 2011-01-27 21:53:34 noagendamarket has joined
1864 2011-01-27 21:53:46 <citiz3n> it doesn't seem too difficult to do - a huge list of payment addresses could be provided ahead of time, and each transaction could be given a specific address
1865 2011-01-27 21:53:57 <Kiba> citiz3n: I believed that is so.
1866 2011-01-27 21:53:58 <citiz3n> then when a confirmed payment has been made, it should register
1867 2011-01-27 21:54:06 <newsham> google: bitcoin shopping cart
1868 2011-01-27 21:54:20 <newsham> i see wordpress and ubercart
1869 2011-01-27 21:54:25 <luke-jr> Game paused, Luke-Jr owes 52 to andrew12 but is not solvent. Player needs to raise 1 in cash first.
1870 2011-01-27 21:54:26 <luke-jr> )*(%&#)
1871 2011-01-27 21:54:35 <EvanR-work> im falling asleep
1872 2011-01-27 21:54:47 <luke-jr> whoa
1873 2011-01-27 21:54:47 <Kiba> luke-jr spend all his bitcoin already?
1874 2011-01-27 21:54:49 <luke-jr> how'd you get 2000?
1875 2011-01-27 21:54:54 <luke-jr> andrew12:
1876 2011-01-27 21:55:15 <luke-jr> this game needs a LOG
1877 2011-01-27 21:55:36 <citiz3n> nifty, it works exactly as i thought it should
1878 2011-01-27 21:56:17 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1879 2011-01-27 21:56:58 <andrew12> this game does indeed need a log
1880 2011-01-27 21:57:47 <luke-jr> andrew12: lol, try mouse wheel on the board
1881 2011-01-27 21:58:40 <luke-jr> newsham: is there a problem with 10 minutes wait? :P
1882 2011-01-27 21:59:03 <andrew12> heh
1883 2011-01-27 21:59:06 <newsham> yes there is.  "waiting sucks" is the first rule of gaming
1884 2011-01-27 21:59:06 <ArtForz> oi!
1885 2011-01-27 21:59:08 <ArtForz> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/01/27/2059200/SourceForge-Down-After-Attack
1886 2011-01-27 21:59:26 <luke-jr> newsham: even in Monopoly where games can take hours?
1887 2011-01-27 22:00:13 <EvanR-work> everyone is in such a hurry to finish the game, slow down, relax ;)
1888 2011-01-27 22:00:17 <EvanR-work> have a beer between turns
1889 2011-01-27 22:00:28 <andrew12> well in this game it's all mostly automatic
1890 2011-01-27 22:00:28 <andrew12> lol
1891 2011-01-27 22:00:33 <luke-jr> XD
1892 2011-01-27 22:00:43 <luke-jr> except for the financial decisions really
1893 2011-01-27 22:00:47 <andrew12> i.e. i get 8000 after sitting around doing nothing for a while.
1894 2011-01-27 22:00:52 <EvanR-work> yeah theres not many real choices you have in monopoly
1895 2011-01-27 22:01:08 <EvanR-work> its like rube goldberg game
1896 2011-01-27 22:01:13 <ArtForz> someone should write a bot for that :P
1897 2011-01-27 22:01:25 <andrew12> ArtForz: for what?
1898 2011-01-27 22:01:48 <newsham> in a real game of monopoly, making deals with other players is a large part of the strategy
1899 2011-01-27 22:01:52 <ArtForz> yep
1900 2011-01-27 22:02:02 <EvanR-work> yeah which is usually absent from computer versions
1901 2011-01-27 22:02:02 <ArtForz> thats why it'd be interesting
1902 2011-01-27 22:02:17 <luke-jr> not Capitalism
1903 2011-01-27 22:02:21 <newsham> implement WAR, too.
1904 2011-01-27 22:02:27 <luke-jr> http://www.linux-ecke.de/Capitalism/
1905 2011-01-27 22:02:50 <luke-jr> Luke-Jr lands on TODO.
1906 2011-01-27 22:02:51 <luke-jr> wtf
1907 2011-01-27 22:04:01 <ArtForz> either versioning or site update fail
1908 2011-01-27 22:04:05 <luke-jr> heh
1909 2011-01-27 22:04:19 <luke-jr> the street is called TODO
1910 2011-01-27 22:04:21 <luke-jr> :p
1911 2011-01-27 22:04:23 <ArtForz> Roadmap for 0.4, stable is 0.5 ...
1912 2011-01-27 22:04:24 prax has joined
1913 2011-01-27 22:04:32 <luke-jr> andrew12: good thing I have that cap payout? :P
1914 2011-01-27 22:04:55 <newsham> TODO: we're not in kansas anymore.
1915 2011-01-27 22:05:16 <ArtForz> TODO: write TODO list
1916 2011-01-27 22:05:34 <andrew12> TODO: replace TODO st. with something else
1917 2011-01-27 22:05:54 <newsham> TODO: DO
1918 2011-01-27 22:06:05 <luke-jr> ok, Atlantic seems way too unbalanced
1919 2011-01-27 22:06:08 <andrew12> TODO: TODO
1920 2011-01-27 22:06:16 <luke-jr> at this point, I have 4668 and andrew12 has 9278
1921 2011-01-27 22:06:23 <newsham> TODO: DO DEW
1922 2011-01-27 22:06:33 <EvanR-work> welcome to monopoly
1923 2011-01-27 22:06:41 <andrew12> now i have 5661
1924 2011-01-27 22:06:41 <luke-jr> we started with 2000 ea
1925 2011-01-27 22:06:42 <EvanR-work> after the first few turns xD
1926 2011-01-27 22:06:48 <newsham> i have 6502
1927 2011-01-27 22:07:22 <luke-jr> WTF
1928 2011-01-27 22:07:26 <luke-jr> andrew12 has 15k somehow
1929 2011-01-27 22:08:00 <andrew12> buying houserows
1930 2011-01-27 22:09:58 doublec has joined
1931 2011-01-27 22:10:20 <andrew12> also morgage
1932 2011-01-27 22:10:23 <andrew12> mortgage
1933 2011-01-27 22:10:25 <andrew12> whatever
1934 2011-01-27 22:11:40 <andrew12> go luke
1935 2011-01-27 22:12:40 <andrew12> gooooo
1936 2011-01-27 22:15:54 * andrew12 eats CIA-98
1937 2011-01-27 22:15:55 * CIA-98 tastes crunchy
1938 2011-01-27 22:15:58 * andrew12 kicks CIA-98
1939 2011-01-27 22:16:00 <CIA-98> ow
1940 2011-01-27 22:16:04 * andrew12 pets CIA-98
1941 2011-01-27 22:16:18 xelister has joined
1942 2011-01-27 22:16:18 xelister has quit (Changing host)
1943 2011-01-27 22:16:18 xelister has joined
1944 2011-01-27 22:20:27 * andrew12 pets CIA-98
1945 2011-01-27 22:20:30 <andrew12> hm
1946 2011-01-27 22:37:24 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1947 2011-01-27 22:50:39 akem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1948 2011-01-27 23:04:50 <luke-jr> andrew12: I WIN
1949 2011-01-27 23:07:46 sabalaba has joined
1950 2011-01-27 23:10:04 <EvanR-work> no. because the only way to win is not to play... *i won*
1951 2011-01-27 23:15:16 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: liar
1952 2011-01-27 23:15:33 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: if we were playing with bitcoins, I'd have won 9375
1953 2011-01-27 23:15:34 <luke-jr> :p
1954 2011-01-27 23:16:53 akem has joined
1955 2011-01-27 23:16:53 akem has quit (Changing host)
1956 2011-01-27 23:16:53 akem has joined
1957 2011-01-27 23:18:39 <echelon> the whole process of buying bitcoins is a turn off -_-
1958 2011-01-27 23:18:56 <EvanR-work> yes, usd on the internet is a turn off ;)
1959 2011-01-27 23:19:09 <EvanR-work> maybe you have something else to trade
1960 2011-01-27 23:19:53 <echelon> exchanging us$ for liberty reserves and then exchanging liberty reserves for btc
1961 2011-01-27 23:20:03 <echelon> too much overhead
1962 2011-01-27 23:20:10 <luke-jr> echelon: I'd be glad to sell you 100 BTC for $50 USD
1963 2011-01-27 23:20:35 <EvanR-work> looks like btc passed the 1/2 mark ;)
1964 2011-01-27 23:20:48 <luke-jr> PayPal, cash, or bank check ;)
1965 2011-01-27 23:20:53 <echelon> according to luke-jr :P
1966 2011-01-27 23:21:12 <EvanR-work> buying it from here or #bitcoin-otc is the easiest way really
1967 2011-01-27 23:21:17 <EvanR-work> with payal
1968 2011-01-27 23:21:18 <EvanR-work> pal
1969 2011-01-27 23:21:20 <luke-jr> if I don't sell you the 100 BTC, I can sell em for $50 within a month.
1970 2011-01-27 23:21:24 <luke-jr> I'm in no rush
1971 2011-01-27 23:21:28 Vladimir_ has joined
1972 2011-01-27 23:21:30 <luke-jr> why should I lower my asking price? :P
1973 2011-01-27 23:21:43 <echelon> i'm not stopping you
1974 2011-01-27 23:21:49 <EvanR-work> if one is in no rush, a lot of things are simpler ;)
1975 2011-01-27 23:22:12 <EvanR-work> which i actively advocate these days
1976 2011-01-27 23:22:21 <echelon> i just need btc to buy this domain
1977 2011-01-27 23:22:33 <EvanR-work> they dont accept usd?
1978 2011-01-27 23:22:37 <luke-jr> lol
1979 2011-01-27 23:22:43 <luke-jr> who did that? nice idea XD
1980 2011-01-27 23:22:47 <echelon> i don't want to use usd
1981 2011-01-27 23:22:57 <echelon> mt
1982 2011-01-27 23:23:11 <EvanR-work> if you dont like his price, what are willing to buy at?
1983 2011-01-27 23:23:16 <luke-jr> echelon: just try CoinPal
1984 2011-01-27 23:23:23 <echelon> i did
1985 2011-01-27 23:23:25 <Cusipzzz> coinpal closed
1986 2011-01-27 23:23:30 <luke-jr> o
1987 2011-01-27 23:23:31 <luke-jr> why?
1988 2011-01-27 23:23:35 <Cusipzzz> fraud, obv
1989 2011-01-27 23:23:38 <luke-jr> -.-
1990 2011-01-27 23:23:40 <EvanR-work> :(
1991 2011-01-27 23:23:42 <luke-jr> even with the precautions?
1992 2011-01-27 23:23:45 <echelon> they didn't close, out of btc reserves..
1993 2011-01-27 23:23:52 <echelon> where did you hear about fraud?
1994 2011-01-27 23:23:53 <luke-jr> o
1995 2011-01-27 23:23:55 <Cusipzzz> forums
1996 2011-01-27 23:23:59 <Cusipzzz> read his thread
1997 2011-01-27 23:24:00 <luke-jr> echelon: fraud is the usual reason
1998 2011-01-27 23:24:03 <echelon> link?
1999 2011-01-27 23:24:09 <luke-jr> echelon: PayPal is extremely vulnerable to fraud
2000 2011-01-27 23:24:09 <dooglus> luke-jr: I think your patch to never return sub-cent change isn't right
2001 2011-01-27 23:24:19 <luke-jr> dooglus: why not?
2002 2011-01-27 23:24:25 <echelon> we need escrow services
2003 2011-01-27 23:24:34 <dooglus> luke-jr: consider what happens if I try to pay 2, when I have 2 coins worth 1.00 and 1.005
2004 2011-01-27 23:24:51 <dooglus> luke-jr: it will fail to make the payment at all, rather than giving 0.005 change
2005 2011-01-27 23:25:03 <luke-jr> dooglus: it shouldn't…
2006 2011-01-27 23:25:10 <EvanR-work> echelon: that or a web of trust
2007 2011-01-27 23:25:25 <dooglus> luke-jr: I know.  and that's why it isn't right.
2008 2011-01-27 23:25:53 <luke-jr> …
2009 2011-01-27 23:25:59 <dooglus> luke-jr: if I have 2.005 BTC, I should be able to send you 2 BTC, no?
2010 2011-01-27 23:26:02 <luke-jr> it shouldn't fail
2011 2011-01-27 23:26:12 <echelon> but automated exchange services would be good for btc-based start-up companies
2012 2011-01-27 23:26:22 <doublec> echelon: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2555.msg40973#msg40973
2013 2011-01-27 23:26:27 <luke-jr> dooglus: IMO, it should ask if you want to send 2.005 or offer 0.005 in fees ;)
2014 2011-01-27 23:26:28 <echelon> thanks
2015 2011-01-27 23:26:29 <dooglus> luke-jr: your code: if (nTotalLower < nTargetValue + (pcoinLowestLarger ? CENT : 0)) if (pcoinLowestLarger == NULL) return false;
2016 2011-01-27 23:26:33 <luke-jr> but that's more complex
2017 2011-01-27 23:26:34 <dooglus> luke-jr: that returns false, right?
2018 2011-01-27 23:26:35 <doublec> "The scammers have arrived.  CoinPal will be closed for the next few days while I analyze a batch of fraudulent orders from this weekend and make any necessary changes to the site. "
2019 2011-01-27 23:26:40 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020 2011-01-27 23:26:54 <EvanR-work> echelon: so far, automated USD anything has led to fraud
2021 2011-01-27 23:26:58 <luke-jr> dooglus: ah, i see
2022 2011-01-27 23:27:03 <ArtForz> no, not really
2023 2011-01-27 23:27:11 <Cusipzzz> as i said, lol
2024 2011-01-27 23:27:14 <ArtForz> automated chargebackable anything leads to fraud
2025 2011-01-27 23:28:03 <luke-jr> dooglus: no…
2026 2011-01-27 23:28:05 <ArtForz> it is possible to add enough safeguards to get fraud rate down to acceptable levels, but then it's back to "inconvenient as hell"
2027 2011-01-27 23:28:06 <Cusipzzz> if only we had something like bitcoin to buy bitcoin with...
2028 2011-01-27 23:28:12 <dooglus> luke-jr: hmmm - I'm wrong
2029 2011-01-27 23:28:14 <luke-jr> dooglus: because if pcoinLowestLarger == NULL, it won't add CENT
2030 2011-01-27 23:28:17 <doublec> with one side of the transaction chargebackable and the other not, there will always be fraudsters
2031 2011-01-27 23:28:19 <dooglus> right
2032 2011-01-27 23:28:41 <echelon> sites like exchangezone and wmtransfer make you submit copies of photo id's
2033 2011-01-27 23:28:41 <Cusipzzz> plus you can buy bulk paypal credentials in a lot of places
2034 2011-01-27 23:28:47 <ArtForz> yeah... something irreversible like... LR
2035 2011-01-27 23:29:02 <echelon> that really takes the anonymity out of anonymous transactions
2036 2011-01-27 23:29:14 <EvanR-work> Cusipzzz: like labor
2037 2011-01-27 23:29:15 <doublec> a lot of e-wallets do the 'need photo id' thing. Often they provide debit cards and require it for the debit card provider.
2038 2011-01-27 23:29:20 <ArtForz> paypal? anonymous? WTF?
2039 2011-01-27 23:29:37 kermit has joined
2040 2011-01-27 23:29:38 <luke-jr> dooglus: I think there's still a bug, in the later section
2041 2011-01-27 23:29:55 <dooglus> in a part you didn't change?
2042 2011-01-27 23:29:56 Asdff_ has joined
2043 2011-01-27 23:30:10 <luke-jr> doublec: it's illegal to require photo ID for credit card purchases
2044 2011-01-27 23:30:13 <EvanR-work> echelon: you want anonymous, irreversible, instant, no setup, usd transfer over the internet? xD
2045 2011-01-27 23:30:17 <echelon> it used to be possible to do anonymous transactions with paypal before they set a $0 spending limit on unverified accounts
2046 2011-01-27 23:30:31 <luke-jr> dooglus: yes, but I changed the 'subset sum' goal
2047 2011-01-27 23:30:40 <ArtForz> shrug, so far I didnt have to provide any proof of identity to LR or my favourite exchanger
2048 2011-01-27 23:31:21 <ArtForz> but then I only transferred about $30k so far
2049 2011-01-27 23:31:58 <doublec> luke-jr: it's not for purchases. It's to get the card.
2050 2011-01-27 23:32:10 <luke-jr> doublec: O.o
2051 2011-01-27 23:32:25 <EvanR-work> ArtForz: which exchanger?
2052 2011-01-27 23:32:30 puddinpop has joined
2053 2011-01-27 23:32:32 <ArtForz> ecardone
2054 2011-01-27 23:32:48 <Vladimir_> Sourceforge was hacked. by noagendamarket - it is said so on forums homepage
2055 2011-01-27 23:33:55 <luke-jr> doublec: yeah, I think it's bugged. just pushed a fix
2056 2011-01-27 23:33:57 citiz3n has quit ()
2057 2011-01-27 23:34:02 <ducki2p> http://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-net-attack/
2058 2011-01-27 23:34:47 <Vladimir_> yea, should have edited the dot out ;)
2059 2011-01-27 23:35:09 <luke-jr> doublec: http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/a77edfcb87f9c6e9df8b06eda5d6fb0af7d1f874
2060 2011-01-27 23:35:13 <luke-jr> oops
2061 2011-01-27 23:35:15 <luke-jr> dooglus:  I mean
2062 2011-01-27 23:35:23 <dooglus> luke-jr: is that a problem?  you mean if I have coins 3,4,6 and try to make 7 it won't pick 3 and 4?
2063 2011-01-27 23:36:08 <luke-jr> dooglus: I mean, if you have 1 and 1.005, trying to make 2, it might not work to try to make 3 :p
2064 2011-01-27 23:36:28 <luke-jr> tbh I don't understand the code beyond that point
2065 2011-01-27 23:36:48 <luke-jr> but my new change ensures that it won't target 3 unless you do for sure have at least 3 :p
2066 2011-01-27 23:36:57 <dooglus> luke-jr: I didn't look at it, but I assume it's trying to find the best subset of coins which doesn't exceed the amount we're looking for in value
2067 2011-01-27 23:36:58 Asdff_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2068 2011-01-27 23:37:26 <luke-jr> dooglus: well, if it's looking for 3 and you only have 2.005, it might infinite loop never finding any possible combination?
2069 2011-01-27 23:37:45 <luke-jr> should be good now tho
2070 2011-01-27 23:37:52 bitanarchy has joined
2071 2011-01-27 23:38:06 <dooglus> luke-jr: my 1.00 and 1.05 were in BTC.  so adding on a cent makes 2.01, not 3
2072 2011-01-27 23:38:22 <luke-jr> 1.00 and 1.005 ;)
2073 2011-01-27 23:38:26 <dooglus> right
2074 2011-01-27 23:38:34 <luke-jr> 2.005 total is < 2.01
2075 2011-01-27 23:39:50 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
2076 2011-01-27 23:40:02 <luke-jr> dooglus: do you have the ability to merge?
2077 2011-01-27 23:40:10 <luke-jr> between GH and Gitorious
2078 2011-01-27 23:40:11 <dooglus> I do
2079 2011-01-27 23:40:14 <luke-jr> cool
2080 2011-01-27 23:40:27 <luke-jr> I'm especially interested in the 'neutral' branch getting in ;)
2081 2011-01-27 23:40:43 <dooglus> but I'm about to go out, and won't have time to test the change(s) now
2082 2011-01-27 23:40:55 <luke-jr> it's fully backward compatible, while supporting a RPC bump with non-floating units ;)
2083 2011-01-27 23:40:56 <dooglus> I'd suggest making 'pull requests' in the github repo
2084 2011-01-27 23:41:03 <luke-jr> github won't let me
2085 2011-01-27 23:41:04 <dooglus> makes it easier to track where things came from
2086 2011-01-27 23:41:12 <dooglus> naughty github
2087 2011-01-27 23:41:19 <luke-jr> it pretends nothing else exists
2088 2011-01-27 23:41:44 <dooglus> what's with the patch to allow sub-cent payments from RPC?
2089 2011-01-27 23:41:44 <luke-jr> the 'master' branch is all tested though ;)
2090 2011-01-27 23:42:04 <luke-jr> current BitCoin rounds all RPC inputs to 0.01 BTC
2091 2011-01-27 23:42:12 <luke-jr> that change just eliminates the rounding
2092 2011-01-27 23:42:25 <dooglus> I think the rounding is deliberate
2093 2011-01-27 23:42:28 <dooglus> like, a feature
2094 2011-01-27 23:42:33 <luke-jr> a bad one ☺
2095 2011-01-27 23:43:14 <dooglus> I don't know why the client rounds everything to cents, rather than allowing the full 8 places of precision, but it does
2096 2011-01-27 23:43:27 <dooglus> changing it probably requires discussion, don't you think?
2097 2011-01-27 23:43:35 <luke-jr> not really… :P
2098 2011-01-27 23:43:38 <dooglus> ha
2099 2011-01-27 23:43:50 <luke-jr> I suppose it could be reversed with the 'neutral' changes
2100 2011-01-27 23:44:02 <luke-jr> then anyone wanting to use sub-cent precision would just have to use the new API version
2101 2011-01-27 23:44:18 <dooglus> I'll merge in bug fixes, if they're obviously correct
2102 2011-01-27 23:44:30 <dooglus> but anything more substantial needs a forum thread discussing it first
2103 2011-01-27 23:44:39 * luke-jr grumbles.
2104 2011-01-27 23:45:17 <dooglus> what's the 'neutral' changes?
2105 2011-01-27 23:45:27 <luke-jr> RPC version bump
2106 2011-01-27 23:45:48 <luke-jr> if -rpcversion=1 is specified, all inputs/outputs are in base unit int64s, not BTC floats
2107 2011-01-27 23:45:59 <luke-jr> also, all deprecated methods are removed
2108 2011-01-27 23:46:22 <luke-jr> brb
2109 2011-01-27 23:49:54 Vladimir_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2110 2011-01-27 23:53:40 akem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)