1 2011-02-06 00:00:05 <Raulo> I don't understand
2 2011-02-06 00:00:19 <molecular> frewsxcv, which distro do you use?
3 2011-02-06 00:00:25 <frewsxcv> molecular: debian
4 2011-02-06 00:00:27 <slush> Raulo: as cheater, you are mining from the start of the round
5 2011-02-06 00:00:35 <Raulo> Yes, always
6 2011-02-06 00:00:57 <Raulo> Or from the start of any block if you don't know it it's the pool round
7 2011-02-06 00:01:02 <molecular> frewsxcv, you have bitcoin running on some machine of pool account at mining.bitcoin.cz?
8 2011-02-06 00:01:22 <slush> Raulo: but when you see the round is longer and stop, your reward goes down faster than with current accounting method
9 2011-02-06 00:01:27 <jgarzik> jav: you must assume BTC are a money that might be transmitted illegally to terrorists / drug cartels / etc. e-gold was shut down because they were not a fully reporting MSB. e-gold is not a "world recognized currency", but that doesn't matter to FinCEN.
10 2011-02-06 00:01:41 <slush> because your first shares are not calculated, but you already spent GPU time onthis
11 2011-02-06 00:01:49 <Raulo> Yes. If you only kepp last X shares, cheating income drops significantly
12 2011-02-06 00:01:55 <jgarzik> jav: anything over $1000/day/person, you need to KYC. You must report everything over $10,000, and all "suspicious transactions"
13 2011-02-06 00:02:02 <molecular> frewsxcv, then do "git clone https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm.git"
14 2011-02-06 00:02:12 <Cusipzzz> jgarzik: host offshore, anon domain, and always use a vpn/proxies to connect to server
15 2011-02-06 00:02:30 <frewsxcv> molecular: i'm running my miner locally. do i need to sign up there for any reason?
16 2011-02-06 00:02:35 <slush> Raulo: I don't clearly see how you got those 2% of cheater reward with calculating only 1100 last shares
17 2011-02-06 00:02:44 <molecular> frewsxcv, no, you can just mine locally
18 2011-02-06 00:02:46 <jgarzik> Cusipzzz: a temporary solution
19 2011-02-06 00:02:49 <Raulo> I need to send you a script
20 2011-02-06 00:02:53 <jgarzik> and certainly where I cannot use my real name...
21 2011-02-06 00:02:56 <jgarzik> ...which I've already done
22 2011-02-06 00:02:59 <Raulo> Which is a bit messy
23 2011-02-06 00:03:15 <jav> jgarzik: aw. I see, thx for the info
24 2011-02-06 00:03:16 <molecular> frewsxcv, you have to configure your bitcoin(d) to accept rpc connections (set rpcuser and rpcpassword in your bitcoin.conf)
25 2011-02-06 00:03:18 <Cusipzzz> jgarzik: ah, well, that cat is out of the bag then, understood.
26 2011-02-06 00:03:18 <slush> Raulo: yes, send me pls
27 2011-02-06 00:03:23 <Raulo> You can plug all the values
28 2011-02-06 00:03:26 <frewsxcv> molecular: yep. then what?
29 2011-02-06 00:03:27 <Raulo> And see what happens
30 2011-02-06 00:03:41 <molecular> frewsxcv, then start miner with cmd-line-args to connect to local bitcoin-machine
31 2011-02-06 00:03:43 <jgarzik> wow
32 2011-02-06 00:03:45 <jgarzik> $0.92 on mtgox
33 2011-02-06 00:03:51 <Raulo> Give me 15 minutes to clean it up
34 2011-02-06 00:04:07 <Raulo> I will PM you in the forum
35 2011-02-06 00:04:11 <slush> jgarzik: this uptrend looks more healthy than 0.95 peak before days
36 2011-02-06 00:04:24 <molecular> slush, yea, this seems pretty stable
37 2011-02-06 00:04:47 <molecular> people get used to this exchange rate
38 2011-02-06 00:04:48 <slush> but I still think the first peak was large speculation to move the market up
39 2011-02-06 00:04:50 <frewsxcv> is there a way to test if i'm running the ati drivers?
40 2011-02-06 00:05:02 <slush> with a little care, the guy has many times his money back
41 2011-02-06 00:05:38 <afed> loller keep generatin
42 2011-02-06 00:06:07 <afed> slush i don't want to ask you a bunch of questions you may have already answered a dozen times
43 2011-02-06 00:06:46 <afed> but how did that info you removed from the web interface help people cheat, and when can we expect it to come back if ever, because i am an obsessive number checker and constantly need to see how many shares each of my machines put up in the last five minutes
44 2011-02-06 00:06:49 <molecular> frewsxcv, not sure, maybe fglrxinfo tells you
45 2011-02-06 00:07:06 <slush> afed: hehe
46 2011-02-06 00:07:09 <molecular> frewsxcv, says "OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc."
47 2011-02-06 00:07:13 <molecular> frewsxcv, here
48 2011-02-06 00:07:23 <slush> afed: please read pool thread on forum. But it looks like stats will be back
49 2011-02-06 00:07:46 <slush> afed: but I will change algorithm for transferring rewards
50 2011-02-06 00:07:59 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
51 2011-02-06 00:08:43 <molecular> slush, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.0 <- this the "pool thread"?
52 2011-02-06 00:08:46 <slush> luke-jr: still lower daily reward from yesterday? (UTC)
53 2011-02-06 00:08:54 <slush> molecular: yes
54 2011-02-06 00:09:08 <afed> oh i see
55 2011-02-06 00:09:14 <afed> I have written a description of the optimal pool abuse strategy (for a single pool) with proofs and calculations.
56 2011-02-06 00:09:43 <frewsxcv> molecular: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1028386
57 2011-02-06 00:09:54 <frewsxcv> will that be a problem?
58 2011-02-06 00:10:20 <frewsxcv> also, can someone post their bitcoin.conf? i need a sample
59 2011-02-06 00:10:28 <molecular> afed: yeah, even printed it ;) looks nice
60 2011-02-06 00:10:28 <molecular> afed, ups, says Raulo as author, though
61 2011-02-06 00:10:51 <afed> yeah i pasted the first line of his post
62 2011-02-06 00:10:56 <afed> raulos
63 2011-02-06 00:11:09 <molecular> frewsxcv, bitcoin.conf line 1: "rpcuser=joe"
64 2011-02-06 00:11:21 <molecular> frewsxcv, bitcoin.conf line 2: "rpcpassword=xzy"
65 2011-02-06 00:11:35 <molecular> frewsxcv, bitcoin.conf line 3: "rpcallowip=192.168.0.*"
66 2011-02-06 00:11:50 <molecular> frewsxcv, bitcoin.conf line 4: "rpcport=8332"
67 2011-02-06 00:11:56 <molecular> frewsxcv, last line is default, I think
68 2011-02-06 00:13:46 <afed> i'm not sure if i understand the definition of cheating
69 2011-02-06 00:14:42 <afed> if one stops mining halfway through a round, the total number of shares will continue to increase, while their shares will stay the same, reducing their reward
70 2011-02-06 00:14:56 <afed> so their reward will be in proportion to the shares they actually contributed
71 2011-02-06 00:16:34 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
72 2011-02-06 00:19:28 <Raulo> slush. I will post this script in the thread. This is nothing sensitive so no harm and there is some possibility I made a mistake so somebody can check it
73 2011-02-06 00:19:47 <Raulo> I'm writing the post
74 2011-02-06 00:21:20 <slush> ok
75 2011-02-06 00:22:06 <molecular> frewsxcv, did you generate a xorg.conf using aticonfig?
76 2011-02-06 00:22:21 * slush hate trolling people on forum
77 2011-02-06 00:23:46 <molecular> frewsxcv, "aticonfig --initial --adapter=all -f" ?
78 2011-02-06 00:24:22 <molecular> frewsxcv, your pastebin: doesn't look nice... but: did you try to run a miner at all? what does it say?
79 2011-02-06 00:25:26 <necrodearia> Does anyone have any questions that they would pay to have answered? If so, pm me so as to not flood channel offtopicly.
80 2011-02-06 00:26:29 <afed> i would like to know the meaning of life
81 2011-02-06 00:27:30 <Cusipzzz> 42, thanks, please drive thru
82 2011-02-06 00:27:42 <afed> what do i owe
83 2011-02-06 00:27:48 <afed> 42 btc for that?
84 2011-02-06 00:28:57 davex__ has joined
85 2011-02-06 00:29:00 * necrodearia is considering similar experience to justanswer.com
86 2011-02-06 00:29:36 <molecular> necrodearia, specifically for bitcoin-questions?
87 2011-02-06 00:29:42 <necrodearia> But better in that 50% of proceeds won't go to site and instead will allow professionals or whomever to receive majority of the profits as they should.
88 2011-02-06 00:29:50 <slush> Raulo: did you post it already?
89 2011-02-06 00:29:50 <necrodearia> molecular, Not necessarily, no.
90 2011-02-06 00:30:09 <Cusipzzz> afed: 1 btc for that, thx
91 2011-02-06 00:31:02 <Raulo> In a minute
92 2011-02-06 00:31:04 <Raulo> Finishing
93 2011-02-06 00:31:36 <molecular> frewsxcv left. hmmm, necrodearia's offer not taken well ;)
94 2011-02-06 00:31:45 <Raulo> Done. At the end of http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3165.0
95 2011-02-06 00:32:21 <presence> I wish the miners would give more data
96 2011-02-06 00:32:29 <presence> I hate just seeing the hash rate
97 2011-02-06 00:32:37 <necrodearia> Actually, if anyone is interested in discussing further, come to #witcoin
98 2011-02-06 00:35:28 <tcatm> nanotube: did gavin message you about the fallback nodes list?
99 2011-02-06 00:37:19 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
100 2011-02-06 00:38:12 <slush> Raulo: script does not work, it prints me some syntax errors
101 2011-02-06 00:38:43 <slush> unfortunately I don't know awk
102 2011-02-06 00:38:45 <Raulo> Which line?
103 2011-02-06 00:38:55 <Raulo> Waht error?
104 2011-02-06 00:39:25 <slush> miner@miner1:~/bin$ ./test.sh
105 2011-02-06 00:39:25 <slush> awk: 5: unexpected character '.'
106 2011-02-06 00:39:26 <slush> awk: ./test.sh: line 5: extra ')'
107 2011-02-06 00:39:52 <slush> oh, without dot it works
108 2011-02-06 00:40:13 <frewsxcv> oh sorry, i'm back
109 2011-02-06 00:40:24 <frewsxcv> i did not generate an xorg yet with aticonfig molecular
110 2011-02-06 00:40:28 <Raulo> Yes. Got it. I messed it pasting. Correcting it for all the others
111 2011-02-06 00:41:00 <nanotube> tcatm: nope... i've had that on my agenda
112 2011-02-06 00:41:10 <nanotube> why? is there a desired deadline to get the updated list in before the .20 release?
113 2011-02-06 00:41:21 <jgarzik> nanotube: yes
114 2011-02-06 00:41:44 <jgarzik> nanotube: updated list is one of the few .20 release blockers
115 2011-02-06 00:42:00 <slush> Raulo: how much 'cheating ratio' you calculated when you completely don't know when the pool starts? And with current pool size...
116 2011-02-06 00:42:01 <frewsxcv> molecular: do i have to restart my computer? or just x?
117 2011-02-06 00:42:07 <frewsxcv> i restarted x. not difference
118 2011-02-06 00:42:11 <tcatm> list could wait for .21, but would be nice to have in .20
119 2011-02-06 00:42:23 <Raulo> 10%
120 2011-02-06 00:42:29 * tcatm thinks we need a official Roadmap in the wiki
121 2011-02-06 00:42:30 <Raulo> Want a script? :)
122 2011-02-06 00:42:35 <slush> yes
123 2011-02-06 00:43:17 Kiba has joined
124 2011-02-06 00:43:22 <Raulo> Writing PM
125 2011-02-06 00:44:01 <nanotube> tcatm: jgarzik ok when's the 20 release scheduled for?
126 2011-02-06 00:44:10 <genjix> anyone here from the UK?
127 2011-02-06 00:44:13 <jgarzik> 22 Mhash/sec in my pool... not much hope of rewarding the testers with another block before Monday @ 11:59pm, alas
128 2011-02-06 00:45:04 <tcatm> nanotube: as soon as possible (i.e. windows builds are a blocking release)
129 2011-02-06 00:45:16 <slush> Raulo: as I see in your script, cheater is working on pool for only small fragment of time. from 1.02, only 0.09 is from pool...
130 2011-02-06 00:45:36 <Raulo> Yes.
131 2011-02-06 00:46:04 <slush> I think if it even may be the problem
132 2011-02-06 00:46:11 <slush> I mean 'real' problem
133 2011-02-06 00:46:14 <Raulo> But 0.02 more than he should
134 2011-02-06 00:46:15 <nanotube> tcatm: ok will aim for later tonight.
135 2011-02-06 00:46:23 <slush> You need big hash power to cheat pool for some significant amount
136 2011-02-06 00:46:25 <tcatm> great :)
137 2011-02-06 00:46:40 <Raulo> It may change if there are multiple pools
138 2011-02-06 00:47:09 <Raulo> But 1 solid GPU is good enough to utilize this strategy
139 2011-02-06 00:47:24 <Raulo> I mean normal strategy because 2% is not worth bothering
140 2011-02-06 00:47:53 <slush> as there is some natural variance, stealing 2% of whatever which has +- 30% variance all the time may be irrelevant
141 2011-02-06 00:48:27 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
142 2011-02-06 00:50:56 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
143 2011-02-06 00:52:04 <slush> Raulo: well, after implementing of calculating only few last shares, there is not significant information when the round started, right?
144 2011-02-06 00:52:10 <slush> so I can show the stats back
145 2011-02-06 00:52:19 <slush> I'm pretty tired by thinking about this
146 2011-02-06 00:52:27 <Raulo> Yes
147 2011-02-06 00:53:48 davex__ has joined
148 2011-02-06 00:54:20 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
149 2011-02-06 00:55:09 <Raulo> slush. Did you get PM?
150 2011-02-06 00:55:20 <Raulo> I sent it twice and nothing in my outbox
151 2011-02-06 00:55:23 <slush> didn't checked yet. I'm doing some tests
152 2011-02-06 00:55:24 <Raulo> No idea why
153 2011-02-06 00:55:56 <Raulo> OK. Didn't check "save in outbox"
154 2011-02-06 00:56:04 <Raulo> You should have got it
155 2011-02-06 00:56:17 <slush> it's my common mistake
156 2011-02-06 00:56:27 <slush> forum messaging is quite bad :)
157 2011-02-06 00:57:07 <Raulo> OK. Gotta go sleep.
158 2011-02-06 00:57:23 <Raulo> You should, too. Nobody will rob the pool overnight :)
159 2011-02-06 00:58:04 <slush> good night
160 2011-02-06 00:58:25 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
161 2011-02-06 00:58:37 <afed> is he asleep yet? executing rob_pool.py
162 2011-02-06 00:58:39 <slush> I hate when things does not work well. Looks like I'll need to fix it before I asleep
163 2011-02-06 00:58:45 <afed> oops damn
164 2011-02-06 00:58:50 <afed> ^C ^C
165 2011-02-06 00:58:55 <slush> hehe
166 2011-02-06 00:58:55 <Kiba> hmm
167 2011-02-06 01:00:03 * Kiba learn much about cryptography
168 2011-02-06 01:00:26 <Kiba> did ya know Charles Baggage is an accomplished codebreaker?
169 2011-02-06 01:00:41 <newsham> did ya know that babage is dead?
170 2011-02-06 01:01:04 <Kiba> everybody know that
171 2011-02-06 01:01:04 <newsham> ada lovelace too
172 2011-02-06 01:01:24 <newsham> btw, if you're into babage, they have a working machine in mountainview california
173 2011-02-06 01:01:31 <newsham> they show it off every saturday
174 2011-02-06 01:01:46 * Kiba was learning the history of cryptography
175 2011-02-06 01:01:47 Raulo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
176 2011-02-06 01:02:05 <Kiba> I read a book on the subject for like 3 hours before I have to go home. I didn't finish the book :(
177 2011-02-06 01:02:19 <newsham> *shrug* 1800s crypto barely counts :)
178 2011-02-06 01:02:30 <newsham> wwII and beyond is were its at
179 2011-02-06 01:02:33 <newsham> where
180 2011-02-06 01:02:47 <Kiba> well, I wasi n the 1800s..then it was starting to get into telegraph and radio cryptography or something
181 2011-02-06 01:03:15 <newsham> here's a difference engine: http://codepad.org/fRYy5ara
182 2011-02-06 01:03:33 mtgox has joined
183 2011-02-06 01:03:40 <newsham> what I mean by "barely counts" is that they were using simplistic things like substitution ciphers that are fairly easy to break
184 2011-02-06 01:03:51 <newsham> vs. stuff that required a lot more analysis in wwII (enigma, purple, etc)
185 2011-02-06 01:03:56 <molecular> there's a remake of babbage's differential engine in the london science museum I think
186 2011-02-06 01:04:04 <newsham> vs. stuff today (aes, md5, rsa, rc4, etc)
187 2011-02-06 01:04:34 <newsham> mt view's: http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/
188 2011-02-06 01:04:38 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
189 2011-02-06 01:04:59 <molecular> http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/computing_and_data_processing/1992-556.aspx
190 2011-02-06 01:05:30 <Kiba> anyway
191 2011-02-06 01:05:36 <Kiba> the closing price seem to be .92 today
192 2011-02-06 01:05:57 <molecular> is the closing-price special in any way?
193 2011-02-06 01:06:01 <newsham> "closing price" and "today" ? :)
194 2011-02-06 01:06:04 <Kiba> no
195 2011-02-06 01:06:07 <newsham> do you mean midnight gmt?
196 2011-02-06 01:06:10 <molecular> hehe
197 2011-02-06 01:06:11 <Kiba> yeah
198 2011-02-06 01:06:17 <Kiba> I just like the higher price
199 2011-02-06 01:06:28 <newsham> i wonder if we'll break $1 before the superbowl's done
200 2011-02-06 01:06:32 <Kiba> it means that my saving is 650 dollars worth of bitcoin
201 2011-02-06 01:06:35 <molecular> I'd like a volume-weighted daily average
202 2011-02-06 01:06:45 <Kiba> it also becoming more difficult for me to earn more bitcoin
203 2011-02-06 01:06:47 <newsham> some video of babbage machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0anIyVGeWOI
204 2011-02-06 01:07:03 <Kiba> I want to have 2100 BTC
205 2011-02-06 01:07:09 <newsham> molecular: just for today or over some time period?
206 2011-02-06 01:07:20 da2ce7 has quit ()
207 2011-02-06 01:08:01 <molecular> every day would be nice ;)
208 2011-02-06 01:10:20 <Kiba> is this the most rapid rise in price or what?
209 2011-02-06 01:10:29 <newsham> you should be able to get that with bitcoincharts
210 2011-02-06 01:10:45 <newsham> anyway, i get 0.854390271812 for last 24hrs
211 2011-02-06 01:10:57 <newsham> but last 24hrs was not very volatile :)
212 2011-02-06 01:11:16 <newsham> wait, i didnt update my db for recent quotes yet..heh oops
213 2011-02-06 01:11:26 <newsham> 0.864390400556
214 2011-02-06 01:12:53 <Kiba> I been inspired to gobble as much knowledge and as much bitcoin as I can
215 2011-02-06 01:13:11 <newsham> bitcoincharts should have some option to show you some volume weighted averages over time (prob exponentially decaying over time)
216 2011-02-06 01:13:12 <Kiba> in 4 years worth of free time
217 2011-02-06 01:13:44 <Kiba> so we're a 4.8 million dollars economy
218 2011-02-06 01:14:09 <newsham> bitcoin is?
219 2011-02-06 01:14:14 <Kiba> yeah
220 2011-02-06 01:14:34 <newsham> uhh.. not quite.
221 2011-02-06 01:14:57 <Kiba> that what bitcoinwatch.com says
222 2011-02-06 01:15:31 <newsham> you're misinterpretting. it says how many bitcoins were ever generated and what the current market price is.
223 2011-02-06 01:15:43 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
224 2011-02-06 01:15:54 <newsham> but if you wer to sell more than 13k btc on mtgox you'd blow through the published order book
225 2011-02-06 01:15:55 <Kiba> or 4815867 USD
226 2011-02-06 01:15:57 <Kiba> not at all
227 2011-02-06 01:16:54 <newsham> if you had 20k btc and wanted to sell it all in the next few days, you'd get much less than 85c/btc
228 2011-02-06 01:17:22 <newsham> (though if all the orders in the published mtgox book cleared, you could at least get 75c for 13k of them)
229 2011-02-06 01:17:28 <Kiba> so? It's just the market price
230 2011-02-06 01:17:46 <Kiba> err
231 2011-02-06 01:17:47 <Kiba> cap
232 2011-02-06 01:18:16 <newsham> kiba: right, so how can you say that is the value of all of those bitcoins?
233 2011-02-06 01:18:20 <Kiba> yeah, if you sell lot of bitcoin, you blow right through the published order books
234 2011-02-06 01:18:28 <Kiba> newsham: why? it's fun.
235 2011-02-06 01:18:46 <newsham> you cant exchange all those bitcoins for $4.8M, nor can you buy $4.8M worth of goods with them
236 2011-02-06 01:18:54 <Kiba> ...
237 2011-02-06 01:18:57 <Kiba> nitpicky
238 2011-02-06 01:19:07 <Kiba> that what bitcoinwatch says
239 2011-02-06 01:19:40 <Kiba> well, we're an extremely small economy anyway
240 2011-02-06 01:20:51 * Kiba wishes for more freelance works
241 2011-02-06 01:21:02 <Kiba> luke-jr: figure out something yet?
242 2011-02-06 01:21:42 <Kiba> luke-jr: if you can't decide, I'll just put a link in my signature to the Tonal article on the bitcoin wiki and end it at that
243 2011-02-06 01:26:08 <afed> win 10
244 2011-02-06 01:27:43 jav has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
245 2011-02-06 01:30:52 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
246 2011-02-06 01:32:40 <andrew12> mtgox: what's the timezone that http://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php is using?
247 2011-02-06 01:33:20 <andrew12> or anyone else here that might know?
248 2011-02-06 01:40:41 <tcatm> andrew12: UTC
249 2011-02-06 01:40:50 <andrew12> then why doesn't flot work
250 2011-02-06 01:40:51 <andrew12> lol
251 2011-02-06 01:41:08 <tcatm> multiply by 1000?
252 2011-02-06 01:41:13 <andrew12> i did
253 2011-02-06 01:41:21 <tcatm> strange
254 2011-02-06 01:41:51 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/1532712 -- the actual code
255 2011-02-06 01:42:04 <andrew12> actually i can upload it to heroku now
256 2011-02-06 01:43:01 <andrew12> should probably do github too so you can see the actual cod
257 2011-02-06 01:43:02 <andrew12> e
258 2011-02-06 01:43:03 marioxcc has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
259 2011-02-06 01:43:12 <andrew12> http://mtgox.heroku.com/
260 2011-02-06 01:43:23 <andrew12> inb4 error
261 2011-02-06 01:43:27 <andrew12> heh
262 2011-02-06 01:43:45 <andrew12> inafter
263 2011-02-06 01:44:24 <andrew12> oh
264 2011-02-06 01:44:49 <andrew12> heroku uses ree, which is based off of 1.8, which doesnt have json built in
265 2011-02-06 01:46:29 <andrew12> now it works
266 2011-02-06 01:49:22 <andrew12> oh
267 2011-02-06 01:49:33 <andrew12> it works, the time is just utc. no wonder i'm so confused
268 2011-02-06 01:49:33 <andrew12> haha
269 2011-02-06 01:54:57 jivvz has joined
270 2011-02-06 01:55:35 zygf has joined
271 2011-02-06 02:09:28 appamatto has joined
272 2011-02-06 02:09:39 <appamatto> I can't believe btc is near parity with the dollar now
273 2011-02-06 02:09:45 <appamatto> !bc,stats
274 2011-02-06 02:09:52 <appamatto> oops, I forgot the command
275 2011-02-06 02:10:43 <andrew12> ;;bc,stats
276 2011-02-06 02:10:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 106442 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 405 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 7 hours, 48 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25281.52763961
277 2011-02-06 02:10:50 <andrew12> all commands start with ;;
278 2011-02-06 02:10:52 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
279 2011-02-06 02:10:57 <andrew12> though !bc,stats should work too... hm
280 2011-02-06 02:13:06 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
281 2011-02-06 02:15:23 mtgox has joined
282 2011-02-06 02:28:59 purpleposeidon has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
283 2011-02-06 02:29:37 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
284 2011-02-06 02:30:48 echelon has joined
285 2011-02-06 02:34:26 <andrew12> hm
286 2011-02-06 02:34:31 <andrew12> ipv6 is still really confusing to me
287 2011-02-06 02:34:49 <echelon> what're you trying to do
288 2011-02-06 02:35:27 <andrew12> well i have a /64 right? i should be able to use 2001:470:8:ad9:dead:beef:8bad:f00d
289 2011-02-06 02:35:46 <andrew12> right? lol
290 2011-02-06 02:36:24 <echelon> ya
291 2011-02-06 02:36:48 <echelon> you're using he.net?
292 2011-02-06 02:37:01 <andrew12> yeah
293 2011-02-06 02:37:29 <andrew12> irssi -h <address> will make it bind to that address right?
294 2011-02-06 02:37:37 <andrew12> or does it have to be a hostname?
295 2011-02-06 02:38:36 <echelon> just do.. /set hostname
296 2011-02-06 02:38:44 purpleposeidon has joined
297 2011-02-06 02:38:53 <echelon> where are you adding the ip?
298 2011-02-06 02:39:34 <andrew12> i'm not adding it anywhere. am i supposed to tell he that i want to use that ip or something?
299 2011-02-06 02:39:41 <andrew12> also
300 2011-02-06 02:39:41 <andrew12> 21:33:00 -!- Irssi: Looking up ipv6.chat.freenode.net
301 2011-02-06 02:39:41 <andrew12> 21:33:00 -!- Irssi: Connecting to ipv6.chat.freenode.net [2001:6b0:e:2018::172] port 6667
302 2011-02-06 02:39:43 <echelon> you have to add it to an interface
303 2011-02-06 02:39:45 <andrew12> 21:33:00 -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server ipv6.chat.freenode.net port 6667 [Cannot assign requested address: 2001:470:8:ad9:dead:beef:8bad:f00d]
304 2011-02-06 02:39:55 <echelon> because it's not find the ip
305 2011-02-06 02:40:09 <echelon> what interface are you using for your lan?
306 2011-02-06 02:40:12 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/1532806
307 2011-02-06 02:40:13 <echelon> wlan0/eth0?
308 2011-02-06 02:40:18 <andrew12> its a vps
309 2011-02-06 02:40:26 <andrew12> but it calls it eth0
310 2011-02-06 02:40:27 <andrew12> lol
311 2011-02-06 02:40:47 <andrew12> i can probably give you the entire thing `ip addr` gives me
312 2011-02-06 02:40:48 <echelon> ifconfig eth0 add 2001:470:8:ad9:dead:beef:8bad:f00d
313 2011-02-06 02:40:56 <echelon> just do that
314 2011-02-06 02:40:57 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
315 2011-02-06 02:40:59 <echelon> and it should work
316 2011-02-06 02:41:22 <andrew12> don't have ifconfig? o_o
317 2011-02-06 02:41:27 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
318 2011-02-06 02:41:48 <andrew12> its debian
319 2011-02-06 02:41:50 <andrew12> ...
320 2011-02-06 02:41:53 echelon has joined
321 2011-02-06 02:41:56 <andrew12> wb
322 2011-02-06 02:41:59 <echelon> thanks
323 2011-02-06 02:42:05 <andrew12> apparently debian doesnt have ifconfig or something
324 2011-02-06 02:42:13 <andrew12> at least squeeze doesnt
325 2011-02-06 02:42:17 <echelon> ^_-
326 2011-02-06 02:42:27 <echelon> how can it not have net-tools
327 2011-02-06 02:42:33 <echelon> apt-get ?
328 2011-02-06 02:42:34 <andrew12> is that the name of the apckage? lol
329 2011-02-06 02:42:48 <andrew12> net-tools is already at the newest version
330 2011-02-06 02:42:55 <andrew12> it has the ip command
331 2011-02-06 02:42:59 <echelon> oh.. you have to do it as root
332 2011-02-06 02:43:28 <andrew12> http://cl.ly/4Q9F
333 2011-02-06 02:43:30 <andrew12> i already am :P
334 2011-02-06 02:44:13 <andrew12> OH
335 2011-02-06 02:44:14 <andrew12> wow
336 2011-02-06 02:44:16 <andrew12> i'm stupid
337 2011-02-06 02:44:30 <echelon> ?
338 2011-02-06 02:45:06 andrew12\ has joined
339 2011-02-06 02:45:08 <andrew12\> \o/
340 2011-02-06 02:45:11 <echelon> :D
341 2011-02-06 02:45:19 <echelon> you have access to rdns?
342 2011-02-06 02:45:25 <andrew12> yeah
343 2011-02-06 02:45:30 <echelon> cool
344 2011-02-06 02:45:36 <andrew12> http://dns.he.net
345 2011-02-06 02:45:38 <andrew12> :p
346 2011-02-06 02:45:44 <echelon> :)
347 2011-02-06 02:45:48 <echelon> have a domain?
348 2011-02-06 02:45:54 <andrew12> yep
349 2011-02-06 02:45:56 <andrew12> andrew12.net
350 2011-02-06 02:45:59 <echelon> :)
351 2011-02-06 02:46:01 alystair has joined
352 2011-02-06 02:46:05 <andrew12> vps.andrew12.net already points to that box's ipv4 address
353 2011-02-06 02:46:17 <Kiba> hmm
354 2011-02-06 02:46:18 <echelon> nice
355 2011-02-06 02:46:39 <Kiba> anybody want to advertise in the new and upcoming The Bitcoin Weekly?
356 2011-02-06 02:46:50 <echelon> i have nothing to advertise :(
357 2011-02-06 02:46:51 andrew12\ has quit (Client Quit)
358 2011-02-06 02:47:00 <echelon> you have content for it?
359 2011-02-06 02:47:14 <Kiba> I will be
360 2011-02-06 02:47:24 <Kiba> Sunday
361 2011-02-06 02:47:26 <Kiba> is my writing time
362 2011-02-06 02:47:41 <echelon> :)
363 2011-02-06 02:56:10 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
364 2011-02-06 03:00:38 davex__ has joined
365 2011-02-06 03:09:00 <prax> what are your rates?
366 2011-02-06 03:09:11 <prax> maybe in future
367 2011-02-06 03:09:24 <Kiba> 1 BTC every 100 words
368 2011-02-06 03:09:39 <Kiba> for classified
369 2011-02-06 03:09:46 <Kiba> otherwise, 25 BTC an ads page
370 2011-02-06 03:10:00 <prax> k, not ready yet
371 2011-02-06 03:14:57 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
372 2011-02-06 03:29:55 <luke-jr> slush: much, I got 0 today
373 2011-02-06 03:30:28 <luke-jr> Kiba: I'm working on a page for you to link. What's the rush?
374 2011-02-06 03:32:47 echelon_ has joined
375 2011-02-06 03:33:42 echelon has quit (Disconnected by services)
376 2011-02-06 03:33:50 echelon_ is now known as echelon
377 2011-02-06 03:48:05 Lachesis has joined
378 2011-02-06 03:48:14 <Kiba> luke-jr: so I can make bitcoin by the end of 30 days
379 2011-02-06 03:48:30 <luke-jr> ?
380 2011-02-06 03:49:04 <Kiba> the more days I have to spend waiting for you, the less I can fill the calendar with paying advertisers
381 2011-02-06 03:49:13 <Kiba> you're limiting the number of potential advertisers in a year!
382 2011-02-06 03:51:05 asdf30 has joined
383 2011-02-06 03:55:53 appamatto has left ()
384 2011-02-06 03:57:45 Lachesis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
385 2011-02-06 04:03:24 <echelon> MT`AwAy, around?
386 2011-02-06 04:16:57 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
387 2011-02-06 04:29:08 noagendamarket has joined
388 2011-02-06 04:47:27 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
389 2011-02-06 04:47:28 noagendamarket has joined
390 2011-02-06 05:06:51 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
391 2011-02-06 05:10:45 ArtForz has joined
392 2011-02-06 05:16:51 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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394 2011-02-06 05:22:58 <newsham> how much does the bitcoin weekly cost?
395 2011-02-06 05:27:20 <Kiba> newsham: it's free to read
396 2011-02-06 05:28:08 <Kiba> my worry is about finding advertisers/sponsors and having enough content
397 2011-02-06 05:29:35 <afed> does bitcoin weekly have pictures of naked girls on page 3?
398 2011-02-06 05:30:04 <Kiba> no
399 2011-02-06 05:30:30 <afed> sorry but it is not going to be bought by me
400 2011-02-06 05:30:44 <Kiba> it's free to download and read...
401 2011-02-06 05:30:53 <afed> o
402 2011-02-06 05:36:36 <noagendamarket> why dont you just have a group blog ?
403 2011-02-06 05:37:46 <Kiba> because the magazine is for serious shit(TM)
404 2011-02-06 05:37:58 <Kiba> I have thought of opening a blog to report on the daily news
405 2011-02-06 05:38:13 <Kiba> to complement the magazine
406 2011-02-06 05:38:16 <Kiba> like what wired does
407 2011-02-06 05:39:02 <Kiba> noagendamarket: ye got more work for me?
408 2011-02-06 05:46:06 <midnightmagic_> afed: hahaha
409 2011-02-06 05:46:37 <midnightmagic_> an accurate bitcoin analysis plus nude model would probably be extremely popular.
410 2011-02-06 05:47:05 <midnightmagic_> nobody sees you reading it, which means the stigma of reading it is eliminated.
411 2011-02-06 05:47:10 <luke-jr> …
412 2011-02-06 05:47:29 <luke-jr> the stigma exists for a reason
413 2011-02-06 05:47:52 <midnightmagic_> plus the early adopters of bitcoin are rabidly interested in the development of the currency, so accurate analysis would be the primary draw,
414 2011-02-06 05:47:55 <Kiba> luke-jr: you don't like nude women?
415 2011-02-06 05:48:10 <luke-jr> Kiba: only my wife, ofc
416 2011-02-06 05:48:43 <midnightmagic_> the stigma is a pointless construction of oppression and sexual imperialism
417 2011-02-06 05:48:54 <Kiba> rofl
418 2011-02-06 05:49:02 <noagendamarket> a nerd woman of the week
419 2011-02-06 05:49:05 <noagendamarket> lol
420 2011-02-06 05:49:28 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: no, it's because such a thing is gravely immoral and sexual abuse.
421 2011-02-06 05:49:48 <Kiba> sexual abuse? LOL
422 2011-02-06 05:49:51 <midnightmagic_> an attractive woman, tastefully done, with artistic merit, has been the cornerstone of high art for centuries.
423 2011-02-06 05:50:10 <noagendamarket> even better if she is doing something geeky
424 2011-02-06 05:50:34 <noagendamarket> like playing xbox in the nude
425 2011-02-06 05:50:40 <midnightmagic_> i'd buy that.
426 2011-02-06 05:50:41 <luke-jr> …
427 2011-02-06 05:50:41 <noagendamarket> :)
428 2011-02-06 05:50:49 <Kiba> like hacking into male's brain and demanding sexual favors from male partner?
429 2011-02-06 05:50:49 <luke-jr> cmon, it's pro-xbox
430 2011-02-06 05:50:53 <luke-jr> you can't honestly support that
431 2011-02-06 05:51:00 <noagendamarket> lol
432 2011-02-06 05:51:06 <midnightmagic_> hrm.. good point..
433 2011-02-06 05:51:07 <noagendamarket> I have aps3
434 2011-02-06 05:51:10 <noagendamarket> :)-
435 2011-02-06 05:51:18 <afed> luke-jr we need to stop using that character
436 2011-02-06 05:51:39 <luke-jr> afed: I haven't seen you use it.
437 2011-02-06 05:51:50 <noagendamarket> a description of where to insert a usb dongle
438 2011-02-06 05:51:51 <afed> for good reason
439 2011-02-06 05:51:52 <Kiba> noagendamarket: yo...do ya have jobs?
440 2011-02-06 05:51:53 <noagendamarket> :)
441 2011-02-06 05:52:08 <luke-jr> …
442 2011-02-06 05:52:39 <luke-jr> anyhow
443 2011-02-06 05:52:42 <luke-jr> BitCoin is doomed
444 2011-02-06 05:52:44 <luke-jr> know why?
445 2011-02-06 05:52:48 <noagendamarket> http://witticisms.witcoin.com/p/38/What-would-you-do-for-5-dollars-worth-of-bitcoins lol
446 2011-02-06 05:53:02 <luke-jr> another digital commodity is going to out-compete BitCoin
447 2011-02-06 05:53:13 <Kiba> like facebook credits?
448 2011-02-06 05:53:37 <noagendamarket> facebook takes a 30% cut its not even in the game.
449 2011-02-06 05:53:44 <luke-jr> Kiba: not that
450 2011-02-06 05:53:46 <Kiba> but it's facebook!
451 2011-02-06 05:53:50 <luke-jr> IPv4 addresses
452 2011-02-06 05:54:02 <noagendamarket> haha
453 2011-02-06 05:54:28 <Kiba> ipv4 addresses doesn't seem to be much of an exchangable currency
454 2011-02-06 05:54:29 <midnightmagic_> ipv6 is already here. just look at art's hostmask.
455 2011-02-06 05:54:35 <luke-jr> I control 21 static IPv4s
456 2011-02-06 05:54:45 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: doesn't make IPv4 any less valuable
457 2011-02-06 05:54:59 <luke-jr> I just raised my prices from $2/IPv4 to $3/IPv4
458 2011-02-06 05:55:02 <Kiba> sound like ipv4 addresses are a better way to s tore your wealth than bitcoin does
459 2011-02-06 05:55:14 <luke-jr> in a year, it'll probably go auction-to-the-highest-bidder
460 2011-02-06 05:55:36 <midnightmagic_> no. allocation has been tightly controlled for a reason, and that reason isn't going anywhere.
461 2011-02-06 05:55:58 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: tightly controlled?
462 2011-02-06 05:56:04 <luke-jr> what has been?
463 2011-02-06 05:56:17 <luke-jr> until recently, to get more IPv4 all I had to do is ask
464 2011-02-06 05:56:29 <luke-jr> this last time, I needed a reason
465 2011-02-06 05:57:08 <midnightmagic_> the only places who don't ask for reasons are places that aren't following the rules.
466 2011-02-06 05:57:29 <luke-jr> when was the last time anyone at the bottom followed the rules? :P
467 2011-02-06 05:57:49 <midnightmagic_> i was network admin for a long time, and the swip reports we had to fill out were ALWAYS necessary. that was in 2000.
468 2011-02-06 05:57:56 <luke-jr> even with IPv6, Comcast is already breaking the rules
469 2011-02-06 05:58:04 <midnightmagic_> oh?
470 2011-02-06 05:58:08 <midnightmagic_> what are they doing?
471 2011-02-06 05:58:13 <luke-jr> giving customers /64s
472 2011-02-06 05:58:48 <luke-jr> rules say end users should get /48s
473 2011-02-06 05:59:02 <midnightmagic_> awesome.
474 2011-02-06 05:59:26 <midnightmagic_> that's total bullshit, and therefore by "awesome" I of course am being eminently sarcastic.
475 2011-02-06 06:00:09 <luke-jr> of course, my own ISP has no plans to support IPv6 anytime soon
476 2011-02-06 06:00:58 sgornick has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
477 2011-02-06 06:01:05 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
478 2011-02-06 06:01:30 sgornick has joined
479 2011-02-06 06:02:48 <midnightmagic_> of course. that's a very common idiocy. i think ipv6 has been in committee too long with too much cruft tacked on. it should have been simpler, and then it would've been adopted far more rapidly
480 2011-02-06 06:05:02 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
481 2011-02-06 06:05:29 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: if you want "should have", we *really* should have just stuck with IPX and never moved to IPv4
482 2011-02-06 06:05:31 <luke-jr> :p
483 2011-02-06 06:07:53 <presence> when the plan is to give /128s for ptp links, who gives a shit about the rest of the allocations
484 2011-02-06 06:08:09 EvanR-work has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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486 2011-02-06 06:12:05 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
487 2011-02-06 06:12:37 dukeleto has joined
488 2011-02-06 06:43:07 <andrew12> heh
489 2011-02-06 06:43:28 <andrew12> with a /64 you have enough ip addresses for each of your connections to have at least a million ips
490 2011-02-06 06:48:19 <midnightmagic_> ipx. funny. :)
491 2011-02-06 06:49:55 <andrew12> yeah i'm gonna go to bed
492 2011-02-06 06:49:58 <andrew12> nini guys
493 2011-02-06 06:53:56 sudog has joined
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495 2011-02-06 06:56:16 RazielZ has joined
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497 2011-02-06 07:21:07 <afed> 0.05 bitcoins * 2^64 ip addresses
498 2011-02-06 07:21:10 <afed> is a lot of bitcoins
499 2011-02-06 07:24:07 <echelon> -__-
500 2011-02-06 07:25:00 <echelon> i'll notify the faucet maintainer to reduce payments to .00001
501 2011-02-06 07:25:16 <afed> 0.00001 bitcoins * 2^64 ip addresses
502 2011-02-06 07:25:19 <afed> is a lot of bitcoins
503 2011-02-06 07:25:38 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
504 2011-02-06 07:25:51 <afed> 1.8*10^14 or so
505 2011-02-06 07:26:18 <echelon> .65536
506 2011-02-06 07:27:40 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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527 2011-02-06 10:11:54 <slush> cosurgi: ru here?
528 2011-02-06 10:17:02 zylche has joined
529 2011-02-06 10:17:03 zylche has quit (Excess Flood)
530 2011-02-06 10:17:37 zylche has joined
531 2011-02-06 10:21:36 TD has joined
532 2011-02-06 10:26:35 noagendamarket has joined
533 2011-02-06 10:35:25 <cosurgi> slush: yes
534 2011-02-06 10:35:35 <cosurgi> what's up?
535 2011-02-06 10:36:03 <slush> I'm thinking about new algorithm for calculating shares
536 2011-02-06 10:36:10 <cosurgi> ok, which one?
537 2011-02-06 10:36:13 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
538 2011-02-06 10:41:12 TheAncientGoat has joined
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541 2011-02-06 11:26:03 gejohn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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544 2011-02-06 11:29:17 devon_hillard has joined
545 2011-02-06 11:31:34 <UukGoblin> gribble suggestion: make the amounts justified to the decimal point, so that it's easy to see them
546 2011-02-06 11:35:51 Zarutian has joined
547 2011-02-06 11:40:04 noagendamarket has joined
548 2011-02-06 12:13:53 <joe_1> what db library does bitcoin depend on
549 2011-02-06 12:14:56 <joe_1> -L"/db/build_unix"
550 2011-02-06 12:15:21 <joe_1> -l db_cxx
551 2011-02-06 12:16:49 <joe_1> berkeley db? is that what that is?
552 2011-02-06 12:22:06 <joe_1> ugh.. looks like oracle gayed it.
553 2011-02-06 12:29:53 <da2ce7> oracle gays everything up.
554 2011-02-06 12:31:48 <wumpus> yep, oracle changes everything it touches to shit
555 2011-02-06 12:31:56 <wumpus> it's legendary
556 2011-02-06 12:34:10 akem has joined
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558 2011-02-06 12:34:10 akem has joined
559 2011-02-06 12:39:30 <da2ce7> oraclecoin
560 2011-02-06 12:39:31 <da2ce7> lol
561 2011-02-06 12:48:33 <noagendamarket> sounds like some form of toothpaste
562 2011-02-06 12:48:36 <noagendamarket> :)
563 2011-02-06 13:03:51 mtgox has joined
564 2011-02-06 13:07:12 <echelon> mtgox, would you alert us if someone was just trading high volumes back and forth to corner the market?
565 2011-02-06 13:07:37 <slush> echelon: why?
566 2011-02-06 13:07:49 <echelon> i think it's a concern
567 2011-02-06 13:08:09 <slush> its a market manipulation
568 2011-02-06 13:08:15 <slush> to telling others who is trading
569 2011-02-06 13:08:47 <echelon> what if it was apparent that a manipulation of the market was occurring
570 2011-02-06 13:08:56 <slush> so?
571 2011-02-06 13:09:12 <slush> there is no manipulation. There are only buys and sells
572 2011-02-06 13:09:32 <slush> if you jump into it and somebody make money on you, that's your problem
573 2011-02-06 13:10:25 <echelon> i don't have a problem with people making money
574 2011-02-06 13:11:54 <slush> will you trade differently if you know that the last trade was big investor or if it was just somebody who has bunch of bitcoins and want to play with the market?
575 2011-02-06 13:13:04 <echelon> i'm not interested if it was a big investor, i'm only interested if there are indicators that show that a person is just swapping back and forth
576 2011-02-06 13:13:35 <slush> which indicate you that isn't an investor, but speculator
577 2011-02-06 13:13:55 <slush> but he only filled orders which are on the market
578 2011-02-06 13:14:28 <slush> that's why is important to follow also volume, not only price level
579 2011-02-06 13:14:45 <slush> parity at volume 1 btc means nothing
580 2011-02-06 13:16:08 <echelon> yeah, that wouldn't be as concerning if it was low volume
581 2011-02-06 13:16:24 <echelon> which is possible to check yourself
582 2011-02-06 13:36:32 <da2ce7> who cares if it is a speculator or investor, they are the same thing
583 2011-02-06 13:37:02 <da2ce7> by all means I'm a speculator as I have generated many coins before they were worth lots.
584 2011-02-06 13:52:31 <slush> basically,speculators keep liquidity up.without specilative trades, there will be much wider spread
585 2011-02-06 13:58:05 xelister has joined
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588 2011-02-06 14:22:38 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
589 2011-02-06 14:26:18 puddinpop has joined
590 2011-02-06 14:33:03 <andrew12> morning guys
591 2011-02-06 14:38:27 <echelon> hey
592 2011-02-06 14:38:37 genjix has joined
593 2011-02-06 14:45:42 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 320
594 2011-02-06 14:45:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 9 years, 19 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 31 minutes, and 35 seconds
595 2011-02-06 14:45:45 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 320000
596 2011-02-06 14:45:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 3 days, 10 hours, 4 minutes, and 6 seconds
597 2011-02-06 14:46:09 <xelister> recently how fast diff is growing? graph?
598 2011-02-06 14:46:17 altamic has joined
599 2011-02-06 14:46:57 <xelister> how do you forecast number of generated blocks in next 2 months with X blocks per week?
600 2011-02-06 14:47:25 <xelister> X + X*e^2 + X*e^3 + X*e^4 e=1.2 ?
601 2011-02-06 14:47:40 <xelister> erg, that is for 1 month actualy
602 2011-02-06 14:49:38 frewsxcv has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
603 2011-02-06 14:51:18 <noagendamarket> I wonder what a bitcoin will be worth in 9 years ? lol
604 2011-02-06 14:51:42 <xelister> noagendamarket: 50 years in brison as a pedorsit in USA
605 2011-02-06 14:52:12 Cusipzzz has joined
606 2011-02-06 14:52:17 <xelister> everyone who is competing with government (e.g. about currency) is a liberal, and all liberals are pedorists.
607 2011-02-06 14:52:20 <Diablo-D3> over 9000 dollars
608 2011-02-06 14:57:25 frewsxcv has joined
609 2011-02-06 14:59:05 <echelon> xelister, i think you have your stereotypes confused or you're trolling
610 2011-02-06 14:59:28 <Diablo-D3> echelon: sigh. what did he say?
611 2011-02-06 14:59:50 <echelon> <noagendamarket> I wonder what a bitcoin will be worth in 9 years ? lol
612 2011-02-06 14:59:50 <echelon> <xelister> noagendamarket: 50 years in prison as a pedorsit in USA
613 2011-02-06 14:59:58 <echelon> <xelister> everyone who is competing with government (e.g. about currency) is a liberal, and all liberals are pedorists.
614 2011-02-06 15:00:14 <Diablo-D3> pedorist... erm,
615 2011-02-06 15:00:30 <Diablo-D3> a podiatrist?
616 2011-02-06 15:00:45 <Diablo-D3> a pedor_a_st maybe?
617 2011-02-06 15:01:10 <ArtForz> no, a pirdorist
618 2011-02-06 15:01:36 <Diablo-D3> a terrorist!?
619 2011-02-06 15:01:51 <ArtForz> pirate pedo terrorist, duh
620 2011-02-06 15:02:06 <Diablo-D3> ohshit
621 2011-02-06 15:05:56 <noagendamarket> lool where is pedor st ?
622 2011-02-06 15:07:06 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
623 2011-02-06 15:09:04 <xelister> ArtForz: is correct
624 2011-02-06 15:09:51 <xelister> echelon: was it not in USA that some guy made own currency coins, and he was arrested and is hold for years without a trial (because gov wants him jailed but cant find any good arguments)?
625 2011-02-06 15:10:15 <echelon> are you sure that was a 'libera'?
626 2011-02-06 15:10:28 <xelister> hm?
627 2011-02-06 15:10:43 <echelon> liberal*
628 2011-02-06 15:11:08 <xelister> I am not sure what you mean with this question
629 2011-02-06 15:11:27 <echelon> you said it's the liberals that are always trying to compete with currency
630 2011-02-06 15:11:59 <xelister> echelon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
631 2011-02-06 15:12:06 <andrew12> rofl
632 2011-02-06 15:12:23 <noagendamarket> lmao
633 2011-02-06 15:13:13 <noagendamarket> but we dont print bitcoins....
634 2011-02-06 15:13:20 <noagendamarket> :)-
635 2011-02-06 15:13:23 <andrew12> we sure as hell can
636 2011-02-06 15:13:42 <andrew12> er
637 2011-02-06 15:13:42 <noagendamarket> im sure we could
638 2011-02-06 15:13:43 <andrew12> nevermind
639 2011-02-06 15:13:56 <andrew12> after i think that through im just like 'oh that won't do...'
640 2011-02-06 15:14:28 <xelister> echelon: I ment that USA gov despite claiming freedom and democracy, often stops people from using their freedom - in example freedom to trade freely. Tax (per income) are anyway imho bad (not-liberal). But something worse is to just jail guy that uses own currency. It seems that is what USA gov is doing. Or is this information incorrect?
641 2011-02-06 15:15:01 <joe_1> i never heard about the guy being jailed for using his own currency
642 2011-02-06 15:15:27 Cusipzzz has joined
643 2011-02-06 15:15:30 <xelister> I read about this story here. Mind someone remind me details?
644 2011-02-06 15:15:57 <noagendamarket> liberty dollar
645 2011-02-06 15:16:14 <joe_1> oh
646 2011-02-06 15:16:15 <xelister> is the story described on some website?
647 2011-02-06 15:16:16 <noagendamarket> thats because he retardedly called it a dollar
648 2011-02-06 15:16:31 <noagendamarket> and made it look like us dollar
649 2011-02-06 15:16:38 <joe_1> no thats not retarded many countries currencies are called dollars
650 2011-02-06 15:16:40 <xelister> well it's not like it is Dolar®
651 2011-02-06 15:17:11 <noagendamarket> well if its a private currency its perfectly legal to create
652 2011-02-06 15:17:15 <xelister> joe_1 is correct. Dolar doesnt mean US Dolar. Again with the selfishness, what is wrong with you, Americans ;)
653 2011-02-06 15:17:24 <noagendamarket> lmao
654 2011-02-06 15:17:40 <xelister> noagendamarket: yeap, and he is still jailed or something?
655 2011-02-06 15:17:41 <noagendamarket> forgive me i didnt realise it was a dolar not a dollar
656 2011-02-06 15:17:52 <xelister> typo
657 2011-02-06 15:17:56 <noagendamarket> heh
658 2011-02-06 15:18:01 <noagendamarket> well words matter
659 2011-02-06 15:18:03 <xelister> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar
660 2011-02-06 15:18:22 <noagendamarket> dont make a note that looks like the us dollar and call it a dollar
661 2011-02-06 15:18:31 <noagendamarket> doh!
662 2011-02-06 15:18:45 <noagendamarket> there was also egold
663 2011-02-06 15:18:50 <xelister> "NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009. Bernard von NotHaus is charged with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States"
664 2011-02-06 15:19:00 <xelister> ^---- echelon here goes your non-evil usa
665 2011-02-06 15:19:25 <echelon> i didn't say it wasn't
666 2011-02-06 15:19:46 <andrew12> how does the us distribute coins after they get out of the mint?
667 2011-02-06 15:19:50 <echelon> but it was his fault in not knowing the legal ramifications
668 2011-02-06 15:19:53 <ArtForz> noagendamarket: agree
669 2011-02-06 15:19:54 <xelister> duuuh duuuh this is made of metal and round! it is totally a forgery! We americans are duumb as fuck so in fact everyone would fall for such forgery! Arrest them! deerp
670 2011-02-06 15:20:08 <andrew12> or is it interest in banks that does it
671 2011-02-06 15:20:58 <xelister> echelon: legal ramifications lol.. of what, making round metal coins? Arrest all Europeans, Canadians, Mexicans, and acient Greeks and Romans for forgery of US Dollar
672 2011-02-06 15:22:32 <andrew12> heh
673 2011-02-06 15:22:37 <andrew12> mtgox is saying i have -0 btc
674 2011-02-06 15:22:42 <echelon> "coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States"
675 2011-02-06 15:23:01 <xelister> my ass is genuine resemblance of U.S. coins
676 2011-02-06 15:23:19 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
677 2011-02-06 15:26:42 <xelister> 1) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Liberty_Dollar.jpeg 2) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/LineartPresRev.png/596px-LineartPresRev.png 3) http://worldmintcoins.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/australian-koala-2009-gold-proof-coin.jpg 1 -vs- 2 , 1 -vs 3 ... USA should invade australia ?
678 2011-02-06 15:27:14 <xelister> maybe when they are done in iraqstan
679 2011-02-06 15:27:23 <joe_1> according to wikipedia they brought some frivilous charges against him after the justice department (executive branch) determined that it's illegal to circulate coins other than u.s. currency. of course, they're lying becuase it is not illegal
680 2011-02-06 15:31:29 Necr0s has joined
681 2011-02-06 15:36:49 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
682 2011-02-06 15:40:18 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
683 2011-02-06 15:42:44 andrew12 has quit (Changing host)
684 2011-02-06 15:42:45 andrew12 has joined
685 2011-02-06 15:53:46 Kiba has joined
686 2011-02-06 16:09:50 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
687 2011-02-06 16:18:08 <slush> ;;bc,calc 35000000
688 2011-02-06 16:18:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 35000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 45 minutes and 1 second
689 2011-02-06 16:29:42 <nanotube> ;;bc,poolstats
690 2011-02-06 16:29:42 <gribble> {"active_workers": 418, "hashes_ps": 35940082418.0, "getwork_ps": 130}
691 2011-02-06 16:29:51 <nanotube> wow up to 35ghps eh.
692 2011-02-06 16:29:52 <nanotube> nice
693 2011-02-06 16:32:06 <slush> yep, but bill for additional transfers looks worse :)
694 2011-02-06 16:33:02 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
695 2011-02-06 16:34:34 <nanotube> slush: what do you mean?
696 2011-02-06 16:34:39 <nanotube> who's billing you?
697 2011-02-06 16:34:46 <slush> linode
698 2011-02-06 16:35:03 <slush> for additional 300GB of transfers above plan :)
699 2011-02-06 16:36:41 <nanotube> oh
700 2011-02-06 16:36:48 <nanotube> wow hehe
701 2011-02-06 16:48:05 x6763 has joined
702 2011-02-06 16:48:38 <bd_> slush: 300GB of transfers above plan?!
703 2011-02-06 16:48:44 <bd_> what are you doing with that linode? :)
704 2011-02-06 16:48:53 <slush> bd_: ,,pool
705 2011-02-06 16:48:53 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
706 2011-02-06 16:48:56 <slush> ;)
707 2011-02-06 16:49:12 <bd_> slush: that uses that much bandwidth? oO
708 2011-02-06 16:49:16 <bd_> also, note that bandwidth is cheaper on linode if you reserve it with the extras tab
709 2011-02-06 16:49:27 <bd_> $0.10/gb vs $0.15/gb
710 2011-02-06 16:49:37 <slush> last month something like 700GB
711 2011-02-06 16:50:01 <slush> I know ,but I hope I'll finish changes in pool this month, which saves significant amount of bandwidth
712 2011-02-06 16:50:27 <bd_> slush: why's the protocol using that much bandwidth as-is? >_>;
713 2011-02-06 16:51:05 <slush> bd_: 130 requests / second, all the day
714 2011-02-06 16:51:16 <bd_> why's the protocol making that many requests? >_>;
715 2011-02-06 16:51:20 <slush> bd_: http headers, http responses, json serialized hexa data...
716 2011-02-06 16:51:24 <bd_> jeez
717 2011-02-06 16:51:37 <bd_> if this doesn't call for a lightweight UDP protocol, I don't know what does :)
718 2011-02-06 16:51:54 <bd_> and can requests be batched up more?
719 2011-02-06 16:54:27 npouillard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
720 2011-02-06 16:58:26 Syke has joined
721 2011-02-06 17:01:45 <slush> bd_: not easily, workers need as much fresh job as possible. So frequent requests are reasonable
722 2011-02-06 17:02:00 <slush> bd_: pool uses standard API which is in bitcoin client itself
723 2011-02-06 17:03:23 <bd_> You could use a push-based API - that is, send out notifications to all connected miners whenever the block contents change
724 2011-02-06 17:03:32 <slush> bd_: bingo ;)
725 2011-02-06 17:03:34 <bd_> you'd need some kind of proxy for the miners to connect to ofc
726 2011-02-06 17:03:41 <slush> but somebody have to design & code it
727 2011-02-06 17:04:51 <bd_> btw, is it me or is your miner producing almost all of the blocks in the bitcoin network? :)
728 2011-02-06 17:06:28 <slush> not all, pool has ~35ghash, but bitcoin network is over 200ghash atm
729 2011-02-06 17:06:57 <bd_> ah, block history block numbers aren't the block chain indices, nm
730 2011-02-06 17:07:04 <slush> hehe
731 2011-02-06 17:07:52 <mrb> bc,stats
732 2011-02-06 17:08:02 <mrb> ;;bc,stats
733 2011-02-06 17:08:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 106549 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 298 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 17 hours, 33 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25352.86302057
734 2011-02-06 17:08:11 <mrb> ;;calc 2**32*25352.86302057/600/1e9
735 2011-02-06 17:08:12 <gribble> (((2 ** 32) * 25,352.86302057) / 600) / 1e9 = 181.482863
736 2011-02-06 17:08:31 <mrb> 181 Ghash/s
737 2011-02-06 17:09:38 <bd_> slush: If you are going to do a broadcast system, be careful to space out the broadcast though, btw. Linode has a maximum bandwidth filter which could result in packet loss if you jam 400 packets down the network interface in the space of a few milliseconds :)
738 2011-02-06 17:10:28 <slush> heh, do you any resources to this
739 2011-02-06 17:10:30 <slush> ?
740 2011-02-06 17:10:36 <slush> *have
741 2011-02-06 17:10:55 <slush> basically I plan to implement long polling
742 2011-02-06 17:11:02 <bd_> slush: not offhand, it's probably in their FAQ somewhere. The limit is 40mbit outgoing (no limit incoming), but I'm not sure how it responds to having large numbers of packets dumped on it in a very short window
743 2011-02-06 17:11:10 <bd_> If needed it can be raised, however.
744 2011-02-06 17:11:31 <slush> hundreds/thousands of open sockets waiting on new block. When new block/tx arrive, pool respond all with new jobs
745 2011-02-06 17:11:35 <bd_> Worse case you retransmit, but that's still undesirable if you want workers to respond quickly
746 2011-02-06 17:11:52 <bd_> slush: Hmm, will miners respond well to that? You should test to see what their timeouts are
747 2011-02-06 17:12:03 <bd_> Unless you're going with a proxy solution of course
748 2011-02-06 17:12:06 <slush> miners needs proxy or custom changes, of course
749 2011-02-06 17:12:14 <bd_> *nod*
750 2011-02-06 17:12:30 <bd_> rather than HTTP long polling I'd go with websockets or something
751 2011-02-06 17:12:36 <bd_> that'll save you the HTTP request bandwidth
752 2011-02-06 17:12:49 <slush> I know, I split job to more phases
753 2011-02-06 17:12:51 npouillard has joined
754 2011-02-06 17:12:57 <bd_> phases?
755 2011-02-06 17:13:09 <slush> firstly I need to handle thousands of connections on the pool, which need some internal rewrites and async core
756 2011-02-06 17:13:23 <slush> then I'll publish proxy & long polling
757 2011-02-06 17:13:41 <bd_> slush: Well, you could have a proxy on the pool side too. Proxy polls the real pool every $shortinterval, triggers a broadcast if there's an update :)
758 2011-02-06 17:14:00 <slush> basically, you are right
759 2011-02-06 17:14:28 <slush> until I'm using stock bitcoind, pool app will be polling bitcoind
760 2011-02-06 17:14:40 npouillard has quit (Client Quit)
761 2011-02-06 17:14:48 <slush> then it pair waiting connections with jobs and close them
762 2011-02-06 17:15:08 <bd_> why close them? Use websockets (or a custom protocol), keep the connection open
763 2011-02-06 17:15:13 <bd_> they're going to need it again anyway
764 2011-02-06 17:15:26 <bd_> actually
765 2011-02-06 17:16:16 <bd_> one option: Use the normal API for submitting results. For getting job updates, you have a ultra-simple relay server that just relays messages from the pool to everything that's connected
766 2011-02-06 17:16:32 <bd_> (for client startup you have to use the normal API to grab the initial job)
767 2011-02-06 17:16:45 Phoebus has joined
768 2011-02-06 17:16:58 <bd_> then your pool core doesn't need changes
769 2011-02-06 17:17:11 <bd_> except to pass the new job to the relay server when it's time to do so
770 2011-02-06 17:17:24 <slush> my pool need changes in all ways
771 2011-02-06 17:17:29 <bd_> heh :)
772 2011-02-06 17:17:46 <slush> because I decided to change handling merkle hash a little
773 2011-02-06 17:18:24 <slush> long story, but it's because I don't simply need long polling solution; I need cheatproof and scalable long polling solution
774 2011-02-06 17:18:50 <bd_> fair enough :)
775 2011-02-06 17:19:09 <slush> I didn't think about websockets or so yet, but once I'll change internals to work async, then I can play with protocol itself freely
776 2011-02-06 17:19:18 <bd_> ah, do you pass every client a slightly different block to detect people who would grab the completed block for themselves or something?
777 2011-02-06 17:19:23 <slush> changing protocol to something reasonable is the next step I was talking about
778 2011-02-06 17:19:31 <slush> no
779 2011-02-06 17:19:40 <slush> it's not possible even with current solution
780 2011-02-06 17:20:13 <bd_> ah, yes, since the recipient key is burned into the block
781 2011-02-06 17:26:35 <slush> yes. With push protocol, every worker need unique extranonce
782 2011-02-06 17:27:33 <bd_> but that can be done by setting it on startup
783 2011-02-06 17:27:51 <bd_> and assigning a new one if it manages to scan its entire assigned range
784 2011-02-06 17:29:16 Syke has quit (afk!~Syke@c-67-188-195-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net|Read error: Operation timed out)
785 2011-02-06 17:32:05 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
786 2011-02-06 17:36:29 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
787 2011-02-06 17:37:50 <presence> power went out for hours last night
788 2011-02-06 17:37:52 <presence> quite annoying
789 2011-02-06 17:38:24 molecular has joined
790 2011-02-06 17:41:01 <slush> bd_: not the hardest part. But I simply have to rewrite almost everything and I have to be sure there are no bugs and holes
791 2011-02-06 17:42:21 <bd_> fair enough
792 2011-02-06 17:42:22 <bd_> good luck :)
793 2011-02-06 17:42:36 <bd_> might want to look into reserving bandwidth if it's going to take a while :)
794 2011-02-06 17:44:46 Syke has joined
795 2011-02-06 17:45:06 <slush> it's 6.Feb. I hope it will be done until 20th
796 2011-02-06 17:45:25 <slush> which is around breakeven for buying extra bandwidth :)
797 2011-02-06 17:46:47 xelister has left ("Konversation terminated!")
798 2011-02-06 17:47:09 <bd_> after the 20th you'd be paying for two months, yes :)
799 2011-02-06 17:47:46 <bd_> or well, in general, for any purchases after the 20th of a month, linode will have you prepay (deposit) an amount sufficient for until the end of the _next_ month
800 2011-02-06 17:48:21 mtgox has joined
801 2011-02-06 18:23:57 Phoebus_ has joined
802 2011-02-06 18:26:05 Slix` has joined
803 2011-02-06 18:26:27 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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805 2011-02-06 18:29:07 Phoebus_ is now known as Phoebus
806 2011-02-06 18:33:01 <brocktice> linode = teh awesome
807 2011-02-06 18:36:00 atphalix has joined
808 2011-02-06 18:36:07 <EvanR> does linode penalize for high cpu load?
809 2011-02-06 18:37:29 <brocktice> nope
810 2011-02-06 18:37:43 <Kiba> it seem that the market is in a downturn today :(
811 2011-02-06 18:37:52 <brocktice> Kiba: good time to buy
812 2011-02-06 18:37:57 <EvanR> haha
813 2011-02-06 18:38:02 <EvanR> good time to buy == 25 cents
814 2011-02-06 18:38:05 <brocktice> get it now before it goes over $1 and then skyrockets!
815 2011-02-06 18:46:13 <Kiba> hmm
816 2011-02-06 18:46:21 * Kiba contacted tcatm by email and gets nothing
817 2011-02-06 18:46:31 <Kiba> I seem to have a lead on that bitcoin bonus guy
818 2011-02-06 18:47:57 <echelon> Kiba, any updates on the magazine?
819 2011-02-06 18:48:28 <Kiba> echelon: deadline is approaching and I seem to have gotten a deal
820 2011-02-06 18:48:44 <echelon> a deal?
821 2011-02-06 18:48:49 <echelon> with an advertiser?
822 2011-02-06 18:48:57 <tcatm> Kiba: Got your email, but I don't really have work for you
823 2011-02-06 18:49:21 <Kiba> :(
824 2011-02-06 18:49:27 <echelon> :/
825 2011-02-06 18:49:36 <echelon> told you to ask one of the #mises guys
826 2011-02-06 18:49:40 <echelon> they like to write
827 2011-02-06 18:49:42 <Kiba> what for?
828 2011-02-06 18:49:54 <Kiba> echelon: I gotten a deal with an advertiser
829 2011-02-06 18:50:06 <echelon> cool
830 2011-02-06 18:51:00 <echelon> they're going to provide an ad page or you'll have to make it for them?
831 2011-02-06 18:51:15 <Kiba> echelon: it will be a simple ads..hopefully
832 2011-02-06 18:51:19 <Kiba> they're going to have to provide the content
833 2011-02-06 18:51:29 <Kiba> not in the business of making advertising
834 2011-02-06 18:51:55 <echelon> is it going to be in the format of the other magazine?
835 2011-02-06 18:52:03 <Kiba> One page ads
836 2011-02-06 18:52:04 <Kiba> yeah
837 2011-02-06 18:52:58 <echelon> should use some publishing software to make it different from the other one
838 2011-02-06 18:53:20 <Kiba> a pdf creator?
839 2011-02-06 18:53:28 <echelon> nah, that's easy
840 2011-02-06 18:54:19 <echelon> Kiba, http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus
841 2011-02-06 18:54:22 <newsham> .tex ftw
842 2011-02-06 18:55:17 <echelon> oh, they have a channel on here.. #scribus
843 2011-02-06 18:56:07 <Kiba> does it allow me to export into HTML or something?
844 2011-02-06 18:57:03 <echelon> exports to pdf, lemme see about html
845 2011-02-06 18:57:26 * Kiba downloads it
846 2011-02-06 18:57:35 <Kiba> well, I should get off my butt and work on my client's projects
847 2011-02-06 18:57:39 <tcatm> other way round: scribus allows you to use text from external files
848 2011-02-06 18:58:03 <tcatm> i.e. edit external file in texteditor and scribus updates text in textfield
849 2011-02-06 18:58:15 <Kiba> that could be doable
850 2011-02-06 18:58:32 * Kiba thinks about creating static version of his site...
851 2011-02-06 18:58:33 <Kiba> err
852 2011-02-06 18:58:35 <Kiba> the magazine
853 2011-02-06 18:58:49 <Kiba> naw, I should stick with something very simple
854 2011-02-06 18:59:06 <echelon> just a touch professionalism in design should keep a consistent readership
855 2011-02-06 18:59:59 <echelon> Kiba, how about.. "the bitcoin journal"?
856 2011-02-06 19:00:57 <Kiba> there's nothing academic about my magazine
857 2011-02-06 19:01:16 <echelon> like 'the wall street journal' ..except about bitcoins
858 2011-02-06 19:01:29 * Kiba ponders
859 2011-02-06 19:02:50 <atphalix> anyone know how to run bitcoin under Fedora?
860 2011-02-06 19:03:13 <echelon> does it matter what distribution it is
861 2011-02-06 19:03:17 <atphalix> I'm using it under wine, not sure if it will work
862 2011-02-06 19:03:23 <echelon> uh.. why
863 2011-02-06 19:03:33 <atphalix> it segfault
864 2011-02-06 19:03:47 <echelon> the linux version segfaults?
865 2011-02-06 19:03:53 <atphalix> yes
866 2011-02-06 19:04:06 <Kiba> I downloaded scribus
867 2011-02-06 19:04:09 <echelon> were you using 32 or 64?
868 2011-02-06 19:04:13 <Kiba> but I guess I'll learn how to use the software later
869 2011-02-06 19:04:13 <atphalix> 32
870 2011-02-06 19:04:40 <echelon> build it from source then
871 2011-02-06 19:04:56 <atphalix> ok will try
872 2011-02-06 19:08:03 atphalix has left ()
873 2011-02-06 19:09:23 [Noodles] has quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
874 2011-02-06 19:27:27 TD has joined
875 2011-02-06 19:28:38 [Noodles] has joined
876 2011-02-06 19:32:20 sabalaba has joined
877 2011-02-06 19:39:35 <luke-jr> Kiba: newspapers should be PDFG
878 2011-02-06 19:39:37 <luke-jr> PDF*
879 2011-02-06 19:41:18 <andrew12> or html..
880 2011-02-06 19:41:36 <luke-jr> HTML is for dynamicly rendered content
881 2011-02-06 19:41:39 <luke-jr> not print
882 2011-02-06 19:42:08 <andrew12> yes, but it's an open standard, and you don't have to install anything
883 2011-02-06 19:42:17 <andrew12> HTML can be used for anything
884 2011-02-06 19:43:58 <echelon> you have to worry about how it appears from browser to browser
885 2011-02-06 19:44:44 <andrew12> not for something like a newspaper
886 2011-02-06 19:44:48 <andrew12> :|
887 2011-02-06 19:48:46 <echelon> there's nothing standard about html rendering
888 2011-02-06 19:48:58 <Necr0s> Use PDF if you want standard rendering.
889 2011-02-06 19:49:00 <tcatm> you could use PDF but with 16:9 aspect only for screens
890 2011-02-06 19:49:07 <luke-jr> andrew12: PDF is also an open standard
891 2011-02-06 19:49:13 <luke-jr> and don't have to install anything
892 2011-02-06 19:49:31 <andrew12> yes you do
893 2011-02-06 19:49:35 <luke-jr> nope
894 2011-02-06 19:49:35 <andrew12> on most system
895 2011-02-06 19:49:36 <andrew12> s
896 2011-02-06 19:49:38 <luke-jr> nope
897 2011-02-06 19:49:39 <Necr0s> OS X's display layer uses PDF heavily.
898 2011-02-06 19:49:48 <andrew12> Windows doesn't come with a pdf reader
899 2011-02-06 19:49:52 <ArtForz> errr. no.
900 2011-02-06 19:49:52 <luke-jr> Windows is crap
901 2011-02-06 19:49:55 <luke-jr> that's ONE OS
902 2011-02-06 19:49:56 <echelon> you can use google's ajax pdf viewer
903 2011-02-06 19:49:57 <andrew12> that's irrelevent
904 2011-02-06 19:49:58 <luke-jr> out of hundreds
905 2011-02-06 19:50:08 <andrew12> you said it works on every os
906 2011-02-06 19:50:08 <luke-jr> also, most OEM Windows include a PDF reader
907 2011-02-06 19:50:15 <luke-jr> I didn't say every.
908 2011-02-06 19:50:16 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
909 2011-02-06 19:50:18 <andrew12> my ass
910 2011-02-06 19:50:28 <Necr0s> Even Win7 doesn't come with anything for PDF?
911 2011-02-06 19:50:33 <luke-jr> only crappy OS that basically nobody uses, lack PDF readers
912 2011-02-06 19:50:35 <Necr0s> Surprising.
913 2011-02-06 19:50:36 <echelon> google's ajax viewer is quite nice :)
914 2011-02-06 19:50:54 RazielZ has quit ()
915 2011-02-06 19:50:58 <luke-jr> again, tell me a single OEM Windows without a PDF reader
916 2011-02-06 19:51:12 <luke-jr> most Windoze lusers just get it OEM
917 2011-02-06 19:51:21 larsivi has joined
918 2011-02-06 19:52:34 <Necr0s> Generated (50.00 matures in 46 blocks)
919 2011-02-06 19:52:47 <Necr0s> I wonder what happens when the blocks run out. Will the final coins never mature?
920 2011-02-06 19:52:59 <luke-jr> …
921 2011-02-06 19:53:02 <luke-jr> blocks never run out
922 2011-02-06 19:53:11 <Necr0s> hmm
923 2011-02-06 19:53:18 <Necr0s> But the coins run out.
924 2011-02-06 19:53:28 <luke-jr> no they don't
925 2011-02-06 19:53:33 <Necr0s> Perhaps a lack some fundamental understanding of the bitcoin system.
926 2011-02-06 19:53:33 <luke-jr> there's still coins to circulate.
927 2011-02-06 19:53:34 <andrew12> indeed they don't
928 2011-02-06 19:53:47 <Necr0s> I thought there could only be 21million or so ever.
929 2011-02-06 19:53:55 <luke-jr> Necr0s: they stop being minted, but the 21million continue circulation
930 2011-02-06 19:53:59 <luke-jr> including payment processing fees
931 2011-02-06 19:54:12 <Necr0s> hmm.
932 2011-02-06 19:54:19 <luke-jr> whoever generates the block gets the payment processing fees
933 2011-02-06 19:54:51 <Necr0s> So just making transactions will add blocks?
934 2011-02-06 19:54:57 <luke-jr> …
935 2011-02-06 19:55:05 <luke-jr> blocks are generated every 10 minutes on average
936 2011-02-06 19:55:10 <luke-jr> with or without transactions
937 2011-02-06 19:55:25 <Necr0s> What can be in a block?
938 2011-02-06 19:55:31 <luke-jr> transactions
939 2011-02-06 19:55:49 <Necr0s> What else?
940 2011-02-06 19:55:54 <luke-jr> that's basically it
941 2011-02-06 19:56:05 <luke-jr> timestamp
942 2011-02-06 19:56:06 <luke-jr> nonce
943 2011-02-06 19:56:08 <Necr0s> er...what do you mean above them by "with or without transactions"?
944 2011-02-06 19:56:21 <midnightmagic_> no, blocks will be generated regardless of transactions as part of the difficulty-increasing block-chain.
945 2011-02-06 19:56:23 <luke-jr> without transactions, it'll just be a minting+header
946 2011-02-06 19:56:29 <midnightmagic_> the more blocks in the chain, the harder it is to attack.
947 2011-02-06 19:56:47 <echelon> until payouts are halved to like .01 btc's will it be worth it for anyone to generate coins?
948 2011-02-06 19:57:01 <luke-jr> echelon: by then, fees will add up to a lot
949 2011-02-06 19:57:07 <luke-jr> or else bitcoin will have long since failed
950 2011-02-06 19:57:07 <echelon> oh
951 2011-02-06 19:57:14 puddinpop has quit ()
952 2011-02-06 19:57:53 <echelon> but what about the difficulty
953 2011-02-06 19:58:00 <luke-jr> ?
954 2011-02-06 19:58:17 <echelon> would it be the same?
955 2011-02-06 19:58:21 <luke-jr> no
956 2011-02-06 19:58:27 <luke-jr> difficulty goes up every 2 weeks or so
957 2011-02-06 19:58:36 <echelon> hmm
958 2011-02-06 19:58:43 <ArtForz> ?
959 2011-02-06 19:58:54 <ArtForz> difficulty adjusts to keep 10 min/block
960 2011-02-06 19:59:10 <echelon> ah
961 2011-02-06 19:59:27 <ArtForz> if total hashrate stops going up, so will difficulty
962 2011-02-06 19:59:45 <luke-jr> if that happens, I'm selling all my bitcoins :P
963 2011-02-06 20:00:12 <echelon> at $0.01? :)
964 2011-02-06 20:00:13 ThomasV has joined
965 2011-02-06 20:00:25 <ArtForz> my guess, it'll happen in about 2 years at most
966 2011-02-06 20:00:40 <Necr0s> My bud tried to sell some and said it was rather diffcult to do.
967 2011-02-06 20:01:00 <ArtForz> ?
968 2011-02-06 20:01:14 <luke-jr> Necr0s: the only reason it would be difficult is selling above market value
969 2011-02-06 20:01:44 <Necr0s> Like every method offered seemed to carry some hefty fees or an $800 minimum transaction size.
970 2011-02-06 20:01:54 <ArtForz> ... so?
971 2011-02-06 20:01:58 <luke-jr> Necr0s: no idea what that's about
972 2011-02-06 20:01:59 <Necr0s> To get USD out.
973 2011-02-06 20:02:17 <ArtForz> and thats a problem because? ...
974 2011-02-06 20:02:22 <Necr0s> via mtgox.
975 2011-02-06 20:02:26 <luke-jr> Necr0s: so don't use mtgox
976 2011-02-06 20:02:40 <ArtForz> or just adjust price accordingly (duh)
977 2011-02-06 20:02:42 <luke-jr> with OTC and Market, fees are always paid by the buyer
978 2011-02-06 20:02:51 Phoebus_ has joined
979 2011-02-06 20:02:54 <Necr0s> hmm.
980 2011-02-06 20:03:03 <luke-jr> Market has a minimum 100 BTC size
981 2011-02-06 20:03:07 <ArtForz> yep
982 2011-02-06 20:03:09 <Necr0s> I guess I'll find out more about that if/when I sell some.
983 2011-02-06 20:03:10 <luke-jr> OTC is ad-hoc
984 2011-02-06 20:03:37 <luke-jr> Necr0s: mtgox is a pain, I only use it as sell+buy
985 2011-02-06 20:03:53 <luke-jr> if I really want to cash out, I sell OTC or Market
986 2011-02-06 20:03:57 <ArtForz> not really more pain than market
987 2011-02-06 20:04:08 <Necr0s> Is #bitcoin-otc preferred then?
988 2011-02-06 20:04:15 <luke-jr> Market just lets you sell via PayPal
989 2011-02-06 20:04:26 <luke-jr> Necr0s: if you can find a buyer
990 2011-02-06 20:04:30 <luke-jr> Market is easiest
991 2011-02-06 20:04:48 <luke-jr> it will just give you the price you can get for it immediately, and you OK or put a higher asking price and wait
992 2011-02-06 20:05:11 <luke-jr> where "immediately" refers only to the agreement, not the actual transfer
993 2011-02-06 20:05:36 puddinpop has joined
994 2011-02-06 20:05:47 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
995 2011-02-06 20:06:18 <Necr0s> bitcoinmarket.com?
996 2011-02-06 20:06:39 <luke-jr> yeah
997 2011-02-06 20:07:02 <luke-jr> you can also (usually) sell for more, because of the risk you have accepting PP
998 2011-02-06 20:08:12 sgornick has joined
999 2011-02-06 20:08:30 <Necr0s> hmm..."Email us for registration".
1000 2011-02-06 20:08:45 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1001 2011-02-06 20:09:08 <ArtForz> yes
1002 2011-02-06 20:13:32 <presence> How do you know what Addr your gpus will use when it gens a good hash?
1003 2011-02-06 20:13:46 <presence> is it just what is selected in the bitcoin/bitcoind app?
1004 2011-02-06 20:13:58 <ArtForz> no
1005 2011-02-06 20:14:01 <ArtForz> it's random
1006 2011-02-06 20:14:03 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1007 2011-02-06 20:14:12 <presence> so it autocreates a new addy when it sends?
1008 2011-02-06 20:14:21 <ArtForz> pretty much
1009 2011-02-06 20:14:28 <presence> how can you guarantee its in your wallet?
1010 2011-02-06 20:15:03 <ArtForz> it uses keys from keypool
1011 2011-02-06 20:15:40 <ArtForz> default keypool size is 100, so as long as you back up your wallet at least every 100 gens/sends, you're fine
1012 2011-02-06 20:16:53 joseph_ has joined
1013 2011-02-06 20:18:26 <joseph_> Hi Everyone. I was wonder if there are any people actively using bitcoin (for real trading).
1014 2011-02-06 20:18:44 <joseph_> It is the greatest idea since sliced bread...
1015 2011-02-06 20:19:02 <joseph_> but, I am wondering what sort of things people use it for at present?
1016 2011-02-06 20:19:51 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?board=5.0
1017 2011-02-06 20:20:24 <cosurgi> What is an "Unknown" address in those strange transactions? Like this one: http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000997f9fd2fe1ee376293ef8c42ad09193a5d2086dddf8e5c426b56
1018 2011-02-06 20:20:36 <joseph_> ok thanks ArtForz.
1019 2011-02-06 20:20:46 <joseph_> didnt know about that.
1020 2011-02-06 20:20:52 <cosurgi> How an unknown address can appear in a transaction?
1021 2011-02-06 20:21:00 joseph_ has quit (Client Quit)
1022 2011-02-06 20:21:01 <ArtForz> it's not unknown
1023 2011-02-06 20:21:10 <cosurgi> someone made a mistake when typing the address?
1024 2011-02-06 20:21:14 <cosurgi> so what is it?
1025 2011-02-06 20:21:17 <ArtForz> the duplicate checksigs make the TX impossilbe to sign
1026 2011-02-06 20:21:43 <ArtForz> *the output
1027 2011-02-06 20:21:53 <cosurgi> what does it mean? what are checksigs, what means 'impossilbe to sign' ?
1028 2011-02-06 20:22:03 <TD> transactions are very flexible
1029 2011-02-06 20:22:13 <TD> however it's only possible to state that they are from A to B if they follow a certain form
1030 2011-02-06 20:22:18 <TD> that tx does not follow the standard form
1031 2011-02-06 20:22:25 <TD> it was made be somebody experimenting i guess
1032 2011-02-06 20:22:29 <ArtForz> yep
1033 2011-02-06 20:22:43 <ArtForz> guess someone trying to see if shitloads of checksigs make tx processing slower
1034 2011-02-06 20:22:49 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
1035 2011-02-06 20:22:52 <cosurgi> but, it means that it's possible to anonymize money, by sending strange transactions?
1036 2011-02-06 20:23:12 <ArtForz> not really
1037 2011-02-06 20:23:22 dukeleto has joined
1038 2011-02-06 20:23:42 jav has joined
1039 2011-02-06 20:23:52 <cosurgi> what is a checksig ?
1040 2011-02-06 20:25:30 <TD> the wiki has info on this
1041 2011-02-06 20:25:33 <TD> read up on the scripting system
1042 2011-02-06 20:26:25 <cosurgi> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG
1043 2011-02-06 20:26:28 <cosurgi> got it
1044 2011-02-06 20:27:00 lyspooner has joined
1045 2011-02-06 20:33:17 Phoebus has joined
1046 2011-02-06 20:33:20 Cusipzzz has joined
1047 2011-02-06 20:35:51 Phoebus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1048 2011-02-06 20:38:06 sgornick has joined
1049 2011-02-06 20:38:11 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1050 2011-02-06 20:38:56 mtgox has joined
1051 2011-02-06 20:40:03 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1052 2011-02-06 20:40:15 Phoebus has joined
1053 2011-02-06 20:40:47 <lyspooner> Is there an optimal strategy to using a bitcoin mining pool wrt when and when not to contribute computing power?
1054 2011-02-06 20:45:07 <midnightmagic_> geh.. how many confirmations are needed for a generated block again before the bitcoins are "yours"?
1055 2011-02-06 20:45:52 <jav> hi there! I have been working on a Bitcoin-related website project which I'm bringing online right now and would like your feedback! :-) Link: http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/
1056 2011-02-06 20:46:50 <lyspooner> midnightmagic_ 120
1057 2011-02-06 20:46:51 <nanotube> midnightmagic_: 120
1058 2011-02-06 20:47:07 <satamusic> i can barely see the dots jav
1059 2011-02-06 20:47:16 <midnightmagic_> thank you! strange these details i keep forgetting..
1060 2011-02-06 20:47:24 <cosurgi> jav: my big mouse pointer is obscuring the amount of BTC. Better put that text rectangle ft above the mouse pointer, than right below.
1061 2011-02-06 20:47:35 <cosurgi> *left above
1062 2011-02-06 20:48:05 <satamusic> and more contrast
1063 2011-02-06 20:48:05 <cosurgi> I only see "0 BTC generated" the first digit is unreadable.
1064 2011-02-06 20:48:26 <jav> cosurgi: I see, thx.. I'll look into that
1065 2011-02-06 20:49:02 <jav> satamusic: noted, I'll think about increasing the dots
1066 2011-02-06 20:49:06 <satamusic> why are there no trades jav?
1067 2011-02-06 20:49:46 <jav> satamusic: it's only displaying Mt. Gox at the moment and there haven't been any in the last hour
1068 2011-02-06 20:49:54 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1069 2011-02-06 20:50:05 <cosurgi> wow, it's moving. Live!
1070 2011-02-06 20:50:38 <cosurgi> jav: maybe this can help, to gather more trades: http://bitcoincharts.com/about/markets-api/
1071 2011-02-06 20:50:39 <satamusic> nice
1072 2011-02-06 20:50:47 <jav> cosurgi: indeed... live data delivered via comet-based technique :-)
1073 2011-02-06 20:51:35 <satamusic> sez to not query more often than every 15mins :/
1074 2011-02-06 20:52:04 <jav> cosurgi: I had a look at bitcoincharts.com, but as satamusic says, they ask to only query every 15mins... no to useful for a live feed
1075 2011-02-06 20:52:46 <jav> but I am working on integrating more market data... hopefully without having to do to much polling
1076 2011-02-06 20:53:19 <cosurgi> cool :)
1077 2011-02-06 20:54:02 mtgox has joined
1078 2011-02-06 20:54:48 * jav is afk for a little bit - thx for your feedback!
1079 2011-02-06 20:58:07 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1080 2011-02-06 20:58:25 <lyspooner> what is a "share" defined as on slush's mining pool?
1081 2011-02-06 20:58:57 <luke-jr> lyspooner: my understanding is that slush gives your miner a lower-than-real difficulty, and each share is a solution to it
1082 2011-02-06 20:59:18 <luke-jr> lyspooner: and slush's pool gets a block when the result ALSO matches the real difficulty
1083 2011-02-06 21:00:37 <lyspooner> luke-jr: thanks, that makes sense. what does getwork mean?
1084 2011-02-06 21:00:50 satamusic_ has joined
1085 2011-02-06 21:01:27 <luke-jr> lyspooner: it means get work
1086 2011-02-06 21:01:35 <lyspooner> hmm
1087 2011-02-06 21:02:06 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1088 2011-02-06 21:02:40 nathan7 has joined
1089 2011-02-06 21:02:41 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
1090 2011-02-06 21:02:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 4 days, 3 hours, 6 minutes, and 5 seconds
1091 2011-02-06 21:02:49 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
1092 2011-02-06 21:02:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 106579 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 268 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 13 hours, 31 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25393.18512912
1093 2011-02-06 21:03:32 <nathan7> nameless|, tcatm, UukGoblin: Op me and gribble?
1094 2011-02-06 21:03:40 <luke-jr> …
1095 2011-02-06 21:03:56 mtgox has joined
1096 2011-02-06 21:04:02 <nathan7> Thanks
1097 2011-02-06 21:04:09 nathan7 has left ()
1098 2011-02-06 21:04:09 nathan7 has joined
1099 2011-02-06 21:04:10 <andrew12> me next!
1100 2011-02-06 21:04:11 <nathan7> :D
1101 2011-02-06 21:04:12 <andrew12> :p
1102 2011-02-06 21:04:30 <nathan7> gribble is a tad unreliable
1103 2011-02-06 21:04:36 <andrew12> agree
1104 2011-02-06 21:05:17 <UukGoblin> yw ;-]
1105 2011-02-06 21:05:46 <luke-jr> …
1106 2011-02-06 21:05:57 <luke-jr> why don't you just op everyone? :P
1107 2011-02-06 21:06:24 <nathan7> luke-jr: Because that leads to chaos?
1108 2011-02-06 21:06:32 <nathan7> Those who are opped are opped for a good reason
1109 2011-02-06 21:06:36 <luke-jr> nathan7: prove it
1110 2011-02-06 21:06:42 <nathan7> actually, they are opped because they have the right friends
1111 2011-02-06 21:07:05 <nathan7> but as an op in any channel you're supposed to pretend otherwise
1112 2011-02-06 21:07:19 <UukGoblin> it leads to chaos on a large channel like this where there are a lot of people who don't know each other
1113 2011-02-06 21:07:29 <nathan7> mhm
1114 2011-02-06 21:07:33 <UukGoblin> small channels with fewer people where everyone is opped lead to only a small chaos
1115 2011-02-06 21:07:59 <UukGoblin> i.e. when one of the guys is bored and wants to play the /kick game
1116 2011-02-06 21:07:59 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: prove it.
1117 2011-02-06 21:08:08 <nathan7> ..why oh why does my brain append ' penis' to the word 'small'
1118 2011-02-06 21:08:10 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, I can't prove it, it's just my own experience
1119 2011-02-06 21:08:14 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, prove otherwise!
1120 2011-02-06 21:08:19 <luke-jr> ok, see #anime
1121 2011-02-06 21:08:28 <UukGoblin> lol nathan7
1122 2011-02-06 21:09:28 <UukGoblin> anime has all-voice, not all-op
1123 2011-02-06 21:09:37 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: over 50% op
1124 2011-02-06 21:09:41 <luke-jr> all regulars are opped
1125 2011-02-06 21:09:55 <UukGoblin> besides it probably has some bots who look after it
1126 2011-02-06 21:10:01 <luke-jr> all op != auto op
1127 2011-02-06 21:10:02 <UukGoblin> well yeah regulars opped = good thing imho
1128 2011-02-06 21:10:17 <UukGoblin> but that depends on channel creator's opinion :-]
1129 2011-02-06 21:10:30 <Kiba> price on mtgox seem to be recovering...
1130 2011-02-06 21:10:30 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1131 2011-02-06 21:10:39 <Kiba> but there's still no solid resistance
1132 2011-02-06 21:10:58 <Kiba> .75 seem to be the most solid
1133 2011-02-06 21:11:40 <andrew12> http://qdb.us/305507 -- shit i left the timestamps in
1134 2011-02-06 21:11:49 * Kiba concluded that we're on not so solid ground
1135 2011-02-06 21:11:57 <luke-jr> Kiba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_does_one_patch_KDE2_under_FreeBSD%3F
1136 2011-02-06 21:12:20 <Kiba> ?
1137 2011-02-06 21:12:23 <andrew12> http://qdb.us/305508 - fixed
1138 2011-02-06 21:14:34 <luke-jr> ;;botsnack
1139 2011-02-06 21:14:35 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
1140 2011-02-06 21:14:52 satamusic_ is now known as satamusic
1141 2011-02-06 21:15:03 mtgox has joined
1142 2011-02-06 21:15:06 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
1143 2011-02-06 21:15:06 satamusic has joined
1144 2011-02-06 21:15:37 <andrew12> offtopic: what linux distro do you guys reccomend one uses on his desktop pc?
1145 2011-02-06 21:15:45 <andrew12> or OS in general
1146 2011-02-06 21:16:06 <andrew12> getting kinda annoyed at arch tbh. :p
1147 2011-02-06 21:16:12 <luke-jr> who?
1148 2011-02-06 21:16:18 <luke-jr> everyone's different
1149 2011-02-06 21:16:52 <andrew12> I wanna use awesome, but it needs cairo-xcb, which conflicts with cairo which is required by a ton of other stuff so i can't uninstall it
1150 2011-02-06 21:17:14 <andrew12> (awesome, the window manager)
1151 2011-02-06 21:17:25 <andrew12> it worked with ubuntu.. but i really don't like apt :P
1152 2011-02-06 21:17:39 <luke-jr> so get Debian maybe
1153 2011-02-06 21:18:11 <andrew12> maybe
1154 2011-02-06 21:18:31 <andrew12> heh
1155 2011-02-06 21:18:38 <andrew12> debian has over 9000 packages
1156 2011-02-06 21:20:12 <nanotube> er... debian also uses apt you know :)
1157 2011-02-06 21:20:17 <nanotube> so if you don't like apt... debian won't help
1158 2011-02-06 21:20:23 <luke-jr> no
1159 2011-02-06 21:20:28 <luke-jr> Debian uses aptitude
1160 2011-02-06 21:20:35 <luke-jr> since Etch or Lenny
1161 2011-02-06 21:20:36 <nanotube> same difference
1162 2011-02-06 21:20:42 <nanotube> it's the apt system
1163 2011-02-06 21:20:45 <nanotube> just different interface
1164 2011-02-06 21:20:45 <luke-jr> nah, aptitude works sanely.
1165 2011-02-06 21:20:52 <andrew12> nanotube: yeah i know :\
1166 2011-02-06 21:20:54 <luke-jr> interface is the same, not internals
1167 2011-02-06 21:21:11 <andrew12> is it faster? lol
1168 2011-02-06 21:21:36 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1169 2011-02-06 21:21:43 <luke-jr> certainly faster than any other pkg manager I've seen
1170 2011-02-06 21:22:25 altamic has joined
1171 2011-02-06 21:22:33 <andrew12> hm
1172 2011-02-06 21:24:02 <nanotube> back when i tried aptitude for a bit... haven't found it to be any faster or better or etc.
1173 2011-02-06 21:24:13 <nanotube> but then again, it's not like i do a lot of fancy stuff with package management
1174 2011-02-06 21:24:22 <andrew12> it was probably slow just because my pc is slow
1175 2011-02-06 21:24:27 <andrew12> and because ubuntu is generally terribad
1176 2011-02-06 21:25:53 <andrew12> heh.. i'm trying to figure out why my torrent client is being so slow.. turns out i had it limited to 50kb/s. go figure
1177 2011-02-06 21:25:56 <andrew12> lol
1178 2011-02-06 21:26:01 <andrew12> s/is/was/
1179 2011-02-06 21:27:04 <nanotube> heh
1180 2011-02-06 21:27:19 * nanotube uses ubuntu without any problems. works just fine. fwiw. :)
1181 2011-02-06 21:28:00 <andrew12> well i guess its preference
1182 2011-02-06 21:28:13 <andrew12> s/because ubuntu/because, imo, ubuntu/
1183 2011-02-06 21:28:14 <andrew12> fixed.
1184 2011-02-06 21:28:15 <andrew12> :p
1185 2011-02-06 21:28:24 <nanotube> heh
1186 2011-02-06 21:30:41 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1187 2011-02-06 21:35:47 mtgox has joined
1188 2011-02-06 21:36:12 <midnightmagic_> ;;bc,stats
1189 2011-02-06 21:36:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 106585 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 262 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 12 hours, 36 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25415.42452718
1190 2011-02-06 21:38:01 <jav> what do you guys think of the FAQ at bitcoinmonitor.com? ( http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/static/faq.html ) any glaring spelling or grammatical mistakes?
1191 2011-02-06 21:44:29 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1192 2011-02-06 21:49:24 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1193 2011-02-06 21:56:16 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1194 2011-02-06 21:57:09 <nanotube> jav: plots new transactions as soon as the spread through the network <-- s/the/they/
1195 2011-02-06 21:57:18 <nanotube> other than that, seems reasonable :)
1196 2011-02-06 21:59:45 <jav> nanotube: aw, thx for spotting that - I'll fix it
1197 2011-02-06 22:00:27 mtgox has joined
1198 2011-02-06 22:01:36 <nanotube> np :)
1199 2011-02-06 22:01:44 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1200 2011-02-06 22:02:21 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1201 2011-02-06 22:04:13 <strattog> jav: very minor but in the last paragraph 'transfered' should be 'transferred' :)
1202 2011-02-06 22:04:54 <jav> strattog: indeed, thx
1203 2011-02-06 22:14:22 noagendamarket has joined
1204 2011-02-06 22:17:14 <molecular> jav: hey, very nice, your bitcoinmonitor!
1205 2011-02-06 22:18:09 <jav> molecular: thx :-)
1206 2011-02-06 22:18:40 <dirtyfilthy> anybody on here know how many orders of magnitude the android emulator is slower than an actual phone? i realise my milage may very due to lots of factors etc...
1207 2011-02-06 22:18:47 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1208 2011-02-06 22:19:34 <molecular> jav: but... is the y-axis scale fixed? it's all <= 1000 currently and the scale goes up to 8000
1209 2011-02-06 22:20:01 <newsham> dirtyfilthy: obviously it depends on how fast your computer is, but on a reasonable laptop it was only slightly slower than an older android phone (g1/adp1)
1210 2011-02-06 22:20:09 <jav> molecular: no, the scale is not fix... there is still one 7000 transaction in the upper left... behind the legend right now =)
1211 2011-02-06 22:20:15 <newsham> the emulator is well worth using.
1212 2011-02-06 22:20:18 <molecular> jav, :)
1213 2011-02-06 22:20:48 <newsham> but thats comparing an ia32 at something like 2Ghz to an ARM at something like 500mhz
1214 2011-02-06 22:21:10 <newsham> i never did any measurements, thats just subjective observation
1215 2011-02-06 22:21:27 <dirtyfilthy> i'm running a piece of shit core duo 1.6 ghz
1216 2011-02-06 22:21:45 <dirtyfilthy> time to fork out for an actual phone for tests i guess
1217 2011-02-06 22:22:10 <newsham> should be usable on 1.6ghz core duo. you defintely want to test on a phone reguardless
1218 2011-02-06 22:22:21 <newsham> an emulator is ok for dev, but you need a reality check just in case
1219 2011-02-06 22:22:32 <dirtyfilthy> yeah, the slowest bit seems the garbage collector at the mo
1220 2011-02-06 22:22:37 <molecular> jav, are you rounding the mtgox data to 2 decimals yourself?
1221 2011-02-06 22:23:02 <newsham> df: do you have enough ram so that the emulator's image all fits in memory?
1222 2011-02-06 22:23:10 <newsham> if not, memory ops (ie. gc) could be really painful
1223 2011-02-06 22:23:13 <dirtyfilthy> i have the block chain downloading under android but it's taking too long
1224 2011-02-06 22:23:20 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1225 2011-02-06 22:23:27 <newsham> block chain downloading takes long even on a desktop pc
1226 2011-02-06 22:23:37 <newsham> at least it did for me
1227 2011-02-06 22:23:46 <molecular> for me too, several hours
1228 2011-02-06 22:24:04 <dirtyfilthy> nah, this is just the headers
1229 2011-02-06 22:24:16 <dirtyfilthy> d/l is fast, parsing it into the blockchain is slow
1230 2011-02-06 22:24:36 * dirtyfilthy is rolling one gig of swap with eclipse and emulator, heh, probably my problem
1231 2011-02-06 22:24:47 <jav> molecular: yes, I am... actually just using %.2f as formatting... does that even round? probably just cuts off, huh?
1232 2011-02-06 22:24:52 altamic has joined
1233 2011-02-06 22:24:55 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1234 2011-02-06 22:24:55 altamic has joined
1235 2011-02-06 22:25:02 <newsham> another thing to keep in mind is that on an emulator its not just a simple speed diff from real hardware. some ops are really fast in an emulator and some ops are really slow
1236 2011-02-06 22:25:15 <newsham> so dont bother trying to extrapolate performance
1237 2011-02-06 22:25:16 <dirtyfilthy> yeh, i guess i really need a real phone
1238 2011-02-06 22:25:23 <prax> is that amCharts jav?
1239 2011-02-06 22:25:35 <prax> neat anyhow
1240 2011-02-06 22:25:48 <molecular> jav, hmm. it seems to round. that last trade was acutally 0.8998 according to #bitcoin-market
1241 2011-02-06 22:26:02 <molecular> jav, would using %.4f hurt?
1242 2011-02-06 22:26:25 <newsham> 10@0.8998 22min ago
1243 2011-02-06 22:26:38 <jav> prax: thx.. it's flot ( http://code.google.com/p/flot/ )
1244 2011-02-06 22:26:55 <prax> k cool, was looking at stuff liek this yesterday
1245 2011-02-06 22:26:56 <newsham> according to my streaming chart http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/mtgox/
1246 2011-02-06 22:27:06 <molecular> jav, also maybe including timestamp in tooltip might be nice
1247 2011-02-06 22:28:37 <jav> molecular: it probably wouldn't hurt, no... I just used that to be consistent with the transaction amounts.... you think 2 digits is too unprecise?
1248 2011-02-06 22:29:05 <jav> molecular: timestamp, yeah, nice idea.. I'll look into it
1249 2011-02-06 22:29:16 <newsham> 3 digits is prob reasonable right now
1250 2011-02-06 22:29:18 <prax> why is the one trade 11946 BTC + 500 BTC?
1251 2011-02-06 22:29:41 <prax> transaction*
1252 2011-02-06 22:30:41 <jav> prax: are you asking why there are two components to it? in that case: see the FAQ ... or are you asking why someone is moving such a huge amount of Bitcoins? in that case I have no clue =)
1253 2011-02-06 22:34:06 <newsham> jav: log scale would be nice
1254 2011-02-06 22:34:56 <jav> newsham: yeah, I thought so too and experimented a little bit with it, but somehow wasn't really happy with the results... but I might look into it again
1255 2011-02-06 22:35:07 <molecular> jav, I have to agree with newsham, 3 sound good
1256 2011-02-06 22:35:40 <molecular> Just started a post on witcoin.com about bitcoin monitoring sites, if you're interested to add more, just comment: http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/75/bitcoin-monitoring-sites---lets-compile-a-list
1257 2011-02-06 22:36:19 <ThomasV> newsham: http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/mtgox/ is cool, it would be great if it could display bids/asks like on the megachart
1258 2011-02-06 22:37:11 <newsham> you mean graphically show the market depth?
1259 2011-02-06 22:37:20 <newsham> *shrug* I dont quite like the way its show on the megachart.
1260 2011-02-06 22:37:59 <newsham> though i'm thinking i might show some shaded (alpha channel) stuff that shows where the market is if you want to buy larger quantities (ie. say at 100 btc and 1000 btc?)
1261 2011-02-06 22:38:19 <ThomasV> well, yes, graphically. not necessarily the same way
1262 2011-02-06 22:38:20 <newsham> the big downside is that you dont get history for the market depth, so you only have info on depth that you've logged
1263 2011-02-06 22:38:43 <newsham> i guess i could easily show level lines for the current market depth at certain share numbers (ie. 100 and 1000)
1264 2011-02-06 22:39:05 <newsham> "if you want to buy 1000 btc, this is your avg price, if you want to sell 1000 btc..."
1265 2011-02-06 22:39:10 <ThomasV> what do you mean, no history ?
1266 2011-02-06 22:39:25 <newsham> the mtgox api doesnt let you fetch previous market depth data, just for the current time
1267 2011-02-06 22:39:40 <newsham> i'd like to plot previous depth on the same chart
1268 2011-02-06 22:39:47 <ThomasV> that's fine with me :-)
1269 2011-02-06 22:39:51 <newsham> since it changes pretty dramatically over time
1270 2011-02-06 22:40:05 <ThomasV> heh, make a movie
1271 2011-02-06 22:40:12 <ThomasV> like the grand canyon
1272 2011-02-06 22:40:16 <ThomasV> in 3D
1273 2011-02-06 22:40:21 <newsham> see http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/mtgox/bidask.html for example.. thats not realtime though, its premade for data i scraped
1274 2011-02-06 22:40:58 <newsham> we're in negotiations with james cameron right now
1275 2011-02-06 22:41:01 <newsham> he wants to do it in 3d
1276 2011-02-06 22:41:27 <dirtyfilthy> should use scale models and puppets, that shit doesn't age imho
1277 2011-02-06 22:41:29 <ThomasV> lol
1278 2011-02-06 22:42:23 <ThomasV> anyway, the bid/ask view on the megachart is more informative
1279 2011-02-06 22:43:06 <newsham> *shrug* diff information.. i wouldnt say more.
1280 2011-02-06 22:43:29 <newsham> i think ideal would be something like "i want to buy 27583 btc, how much will it cost"
1281 2011-02-06 22:43:31 <ThomasV> diff information ? huh ?
1282 2011-02-06 22:43:43 <newsham> my chart shows how bid/ask and depth evolve over time
1283 2011-02-06 22:43:49 <newsham> but sacrificing with information on the detail of the depth
1284 2011-02-06 22:43:58 <newsham> the megachart shows a lot of informationa bout the depth but with no history
1285 2011-02-06 22:44:12 <newsham> i'm personally more intereste din history (because I'd like to think about market making strategies)
1286 2011-02-06 22:44:22 <ThomasV> your tables do not show history
1287 2011-02-06 22:44:38 <newsham> i meant the bidask.html shows history.. you're right myt ables dont.
1288 2011-02-06 22:44:50 <newsham> perhaps a sidebar graph next to the bid/ask charts.
1289 2011-02-06 22:45:07 <ThomasV> or an option replacement :-)
1290 2011-02-06 22:45:11 <newsham> also i'd like to do trading right on the chart page, but that requires cross-site requests.. so i could do it ias a chrome extension but not as a normal web page
1291 2011-02-06 22:45:42 <newsham> you dont want the list of bid/ask details and prefer a graph? hmm
1292 2011-02-06 22:45:48 <newsham> i really like seeing full detail list like that
1293 2011-02-06 22:46:02 <ThomasV> well you could switch
1294 2011-02-06 22:46:05 <newsham> but something to think about
1295 2011-02-06 22:46:08 <newsham> *nod*
1296 2011-02-06 22:47:14 <newsham> though i'd really like to show it graphically with hsitory right on the chart i think
1297 2011-02-06 22:47:26 <newsham> if i can do it without making ti too cluttered.. i think with alpha-blending i might be able to
1298 2011-02-06 22:49:09 <ThomasV> newsham: you want to be able to trade from your site, or you want other users to be able to trade from your site ?
1299 2011-02-06 22:49:43 <newsham> i personally want to be able to trade from my page.
1300 2011-02-06 22:49:48 <newsham> but if it lets others trade, that would be good too
1301 2011-02-06 22:50:03 <newsham> because i could add ncie features like the ability to "move" a bid or ask.
1302 2011-02-06 22:50:16 <newsham> or add some automated trading right to the page
1303 2011-02-06 22:50:54 <newsham> but it would require making requests to mtgox and seeing their replies, even though the page is hosted on my own site
1304 2011-02-06 22:51:04 <ThomasV> yes
1305 2011-02-06 22:51:06 <newsham> which you can do from js from a chrome extension, but not a normal web page
1306 2011-02-06 22:51:17 dwdollar1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1307 2011-02-06 22:51:26 <ThomasV> or you would need to run a daemon somewhere
1308 2011-02-06 22:51:57 <newsham> right i could proxy requests through my website
1309 2011-02-06 22:52:01 <newsham> though i dont care to do that :)
1310 2011-02-06 22:52:04 <newsham> but who knows.. perhaps
1311 2011-02-06 22:52:43 <newsham> or i could just rewrite it all in python as a desktop app :)
1312 2011-02-06 22:52:50 <newsham> and use a real graphing library
1313 2011-02-06 22:53:25 <newsham> anyway, i start a new contract tomorow, prob wont be doing anything much with it anytime soon
1314 2011-02-06 22:53:32 <ThomasV> heh
1315 2011-02-06 22:53:48 <ThomasV> newsham: I wrote a trivial python applet
1316 2011-02-06 22:53:59 <ThomasV> for the gnome toolbar
1317 2011-02-06 22:54:07 ForceMajeure_ has joined
1318 2011-02-06 22:54:11 <newsham> not interested in gnome.
1319 2011-02-06 22:54:18 <newsham> i've done lots of python apps in the past
1320 2011-02-06 22:54:18 <ThomasV> it shows me the current price
1321 2011-02-06 22:54:25 <newsham> and have some python scrapers right now
1322 2011-02-06 22:54:51 ForceMajeure_ has left ()
1323 2011-02-06 22:55:26 ForceMajeure has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1324 2011-02-06 22:57:21 <newsham> will python for btc!
1325 2011-02-06 22:57:22 <newsham> ;-)
1326 2011-02-06 22:58:03 <newsham> (or haskell, perl, sed, awk, sh, C, C++, tcl, itcl, lisp, ...)
1327 2011-02-06 23:02:57 <genjix> newsham: saturated market. everybody is offering that to a community of coders. congratulations.
1328 2011-02-06 23:03:31 <newsham> preaching to the choir.
1329 2011-02-06 23:03:38 <newsham> i dont expect any takers.
1330 2011-02-06 23:03:46 <genjix> ic
1331 2011-02-06 23:03:48 <newsham> but its ok, i am fine coding for $
1332 2011-02-06 23:03:48 <molecular> carrying owls to athens
1333 2011-02-06 23:04:07 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1334 2011-02-06 23:04:31 <newsham> i guess the bigest benefit of coding for btc wuold be to avoid all the hassle of converting $ to btc
1335 2011-02-06 23:05:23 <Necr0s> Any good commerce software should have currency abstraction.
1336 2011-02-06 23:05:44 <newsham> ahh the myth of good software
1337 2011-02-06 23:05:47 <newsham> good luck with that
1338 2011-02-06 23:09:42 ForceMajeure has joined
1339 2011-02-06 23:09:55 <newsham> i wonder if any of the open source trading platforms could be easily be made to work with mtgox
1340 2011-02-06 23:13:08 <newsham> i wonder hwo much $ and btc are held by the mtgox website
1341 2011-02-06 23:13:31 <prax> we need easier ways for people to get btc
1342 2011-02-06 23:13:47 <prax> more dwolla/btc interaction
1343 2011-02-06 23:13:56 <Necr0s> IB needs to hook up with BTC.
1344 2011-02-06 23:14:01 <noagendamarket> dwolla is only good for the US
1345 2011-02-06 23:14:03 <prax> what is ib?
1346 2011-02-06 23:14:09 <Necr0s> interactivebrokers.com
1347 2011-02-06 23:14:30 <Necr0s> A trading site, aimed at programmers and automated traders.
1348 2011-02-06 23:14:31 <prax> well the us is a start, or the US is most of my concern
1349 2011-02-06 23:14:37 <Necr0s> Very much about APIs and such.
1350 2011-02-06 23:15:07 <newsham> prax: definitely
1351 2011-02-06 23:15:13 <Necr0s> They're already hooked into lots of stock exchanges, forex, futures, options, etc.
1352 2011-02-06 23:15:25 <Necr0s> Would be a big win for bitcoin to have their support.
1353 2011-02-06 23:15:29 <presence> the power outage ate one of my wrts :(
1354 2011-02-06 23:16:12 <Kiba> genjix: well, it seem that I find more jobs outside of programming than I do programming
1355 2011-02-06 23:16:24 <Kiba> even so, I still earn more bitcoin in programming than in any other category
1356 2011-02-06 23:18:00 <newsham> how did you get bitcoins for programming?
1357 2011-02-06 23:23:26 <dirtyfilthy> newsham: if you want some bitcoins i think there's a $250 bounty on upnp support in the client
1358 2011-02-06 23:23:55 <newsham> danke. i dont have upnp on my gw
1359 2011-02-06 23:24:30 <dirtyfilthy> shouldn't be hard to find a shitty router that does though
1360 2011-02-06 23:24:47 <Necr0s> dd-wrt does it, no?
1361 2011-02-06 23:25:12 <presence> newsh: install miniupnpd dude :D
1362 2011-02-06 23:25:15 <Necr0s> $250 or BTC250?
1363 2011-02-06 23:25:27 <dirtyfilthy> $250 USD
1364 2011-02-06 23:25:32 <newsham> necros: in a few days it will be the same thing
1365 2011-02-06 23:25:49 <Necr0s> Strange that USD would be offered.
1366 2011-02-06 23:25:57 <dirtyfilthy> smart imho
1367 2011-02-06 23:26:03 <Necr0s> Seems a bit sacriligous.
1368 2011-02-06 23:26:05 <newsham> btc doesnt have price stability
1369 2011-02-06 23:26:21 <newsham> but perhaps eating our own dogfood would be good anyway
1370 2011-02-06 23:26:37 <Necr0s> aye
1371 2011-02-06 23:26:49 <dirtyfilthy> yeah, the miniupnp client + bitcoin client = $250 profit
1372 2011-02-06 23:26:53 <dirtyfilthy> should be pretty easy
1373 2011-02-06 23:27:11 <newsham> <2.5hrs though?
1374 2011-02-06 23:27:18 <Necr0s> I keep hearing how that's the real way to make BTC strong, is to use it as currency as intended.
1375 2011-02-06 23:27:45 <newsham> necros: ideally, but in practice? heh
1376 2011-02-06 23:28:14 <newsham> the best way to make btc right now is to mine btc last year :)
1377 2011-02-06 23:28:29 <Diablo-D3> ooh!
1378 2011-02-06 23:28:33 <Necr0s> Sometime before too long I plan to set up a webstore where I offer my goods for purchase, and I plan to accept BTC as well as USD.
1379 2011-02-06 23:28:36 <Diablo-D3> I found 4 blocks on the pool now
1380 2011-02-06 23:28:54 <newsham> necr0s: what are your plans for dealing with $/btc volatility?
1381 2011-02-06 23:29:14 <dirtyfilthy> you're only really fucked if the price crashes
1382 2011-02-06 23:29:46 <newsham> dirtyf: your consumers wont use btc if btc has depreciated too quickly recently
1383 2011-02-06 23:29:58 <Necr0s> I'll probably base the value on USD for now, and monitor the exchange rate and price accordingly, with a bit of a cushion for volatility/conversion overhead.
1384 2011-02-06 23:30:32 <dirtyfilthy> depends, there's a certain convenience overhead converting your bitcoins to goods rather than going through mtgox->LR->LR exchanger
1385 2011-02-06 23:30:32 <Necr0s> Maybe use the lowest value over a rolling 2 week period or something.
1386 2011-02-06 23:30:46 <newsham> assuming you have bitcoins to start
1387 2011-02-06 23:30:52 <newsham> whats the incentive for converting dolalrs to bitcoins?
1388 2011-02-06 23:30:58 <newsham> (oter than massive deflation if btc :)
1389 2011-02-06 23:31:19 <dirtyfilthy> ride bubble, time market, profit?
1390 2011-02-06 23:31:24 <newsham> heh
1391 2011-02-06 23:31:25 <newsham> i guess.
1392 2011-02-06 23:31:38 <newsham> eventually the sounds of a million tears
1393 2011-02-06 23:31:42 <Necr0s> All currencies carry the risk of devaluation.
1394 2011-02-06 23:32:19 <newsham> necr0s: in btc though you've got a history of something like 40k% inflation per anum
1395 2011-02-06 23:32:43 <newsham> err 400k%?
1396 2011-02-06 23:32:48 <Necr0s> Yeah, built-in predictability of inflation is nice.
1397 2011-02-06 23:32:56 <newsham> this isnt ifnlation its deflation
1398 2011-02-06 23:33:06 <newsham> $/btc doubling every month or so
1399 2011-02-06 23:33:24 <newsham> why spend btc today when tomorow it will be worth 2x as much?
1400 2011-02-06 23:33:33 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1401 2011-02-06 23:34:09 <Necr0s> Well, valuation vs USD isn't the same thing as deflation.
1402 2011-02-06 23:34:22 <Necr0s> Delfation would be a decrease in the currency supply.
1403 2011-02-06 23:34:30 <newsham> right now it is, since $/btc is the most liquid market
1404 2011-02-06 23:34:33 <Necr0s> And we know that more is being mined every day.
1405 2011-02-06 23:34:38 <newsham> deflation would be the increase in purchasing power
1406 2011-02-06 23:35:06 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1407 2011-02-06 23:35:29 <Necr0s> Deflation can have that effect, but I don't think that's the definition of deflation.
1408 2011-02-06 23:35:34 <newsham> you're alludign to the link between money supply and inflation
1409 2011-02-06 23:35:49 <Necr0s> I thought that's what it meant literally.
1410 2011-02-06 23:35:57 <newsham> not as far as I know..
1411 2011-02-06 23:36:02 <newsham> i could be wrong but i dont think thats what it means
1412 2011-02-06 23:36:20 <dirtyfilthy> in the common tongue it's pretty much the change in the consumer price index
1413 2011-02-06 23:36:24 <dirtyfilthy> which purchasing power
1414 2011-02-06 23:36:24 <newsham> In economics, inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.
1415 2011-02-06 23:37:07 <Necr0s> You ever watch "Money as Debt"?
1416 2011-02-06 23:37:08 <newsham> Monetarism is the view within monetary economics that variation in the money supply has major influences on national output in the short run and the price level over longer periods and that objectives of monetary policy are best met by targeting the growth rate of the money supply
1417 2011-02-06 23:37:24 <newsham> you're talkign about monetarism.
1418 2011-02-06 23:37:26 <Necr0s> I think it's a good thing to watch for anyone interested in currency.
1419 2011-02-06 23:37:56 <newsham> over the long term the supply of money will probably be linked to the inflation/deflation
1420 2011-02-06 23:38:04 <Necr0s> Especially us bitcoiners.
1421 2011-02-06 23:38:08 <newsham> but in the short term it might not be linked at all
1422 2011-02-06 23:38:46 <newsham> i've never seen 'money as debt'
1423 2011-02-06 23:38:51 <Necr0s> "money supply" is kind of hard to define too, because of credit and such things.
1424 2011-02-06 23:39:07 <newsham> *nod* thast why there's M1 and M3 and all that jazz
1425 2011-02-06 23:39:14 <Necr0s> yea
1426 2011-02-06 23:39:17 <newsham> but there's not much credit in btc right now :)
1427 2011-02-06 23:39:27 <Necr0s> for sure
1428 2011-02-06 23:39:49 <Necr0s> A market untapped, just waiting for the right jews to move in.
1429 2011-02-06 23:39:55 <Necr0s> ...did I just type that out loud? :)
1430 2011-02-06 23:39:58 <Necr0s> oops
1431 2011-02-06 23:40:20 <dirtyfilthy> the interest rates would have to be obscene to make it worth while
1432 2011-02-06 23:41:16 <newsham> like 0%?
1433 2011-02-06 23:41:49 <dirtyfilthy> why lend money when it is accumulating value under your mattress?
1434 2011-02-06 23:42:21 <newsham> interest just has to cover risk.
1435 2011-02-06 23:42:28 <newsham> if there was inflation interest would have to cover risk plus inflation
1436 2011-02-06 23:42:29 <Necr0s> On another note, my bitcoin client (0.3.19 on OS X) does something strange. When I first start it up, it will make a bunch of peer connections, like 27 or so. Then over time it will lose those connections until after 48 hours or so it has 0. It never makes any new connections.
1437 2011-02-06 23:42:30 <newsham> to be profitable
1438 2011-02-06 23:42:33 <Necr0s> Until I restart it.
1439 2011-02-06 23:43:43 <dirtyfilthy> i think the risk would be quite high that they wouldn't be able to pay back the increased value of the btc over the loan period
1440 2011-02-06 23:44:21 <newsham> dependant on the size of your enforcer
1441 2011-02-06 23:44:32 <molecular> Necr0s, having the same problem with bitcoin connection loss
1442 2011-02-06 23:44:48 <dirtyfilthy> a job for those of job age: first btc loanshark
1443 2011-02-06 23:44:49 <molecular> Necr0s, do you have a dynamically chaning ip-address?
1444 2011-02-06 23:44:54 <Necr0s> yes
1445 2011-02-06 23:45:11 <molecular> Necr0s, me too. it's got to do with a changing ip
1446 2011-02-06 23:45:19 <nanotube> dirtyfilthy: heh i've already made several btc loans
1447 2011-02-06 23:45:22 <Necr0s> Not on the local stack, but on the router.
1448 2011-02-06 23:45:31 <molecular> Necr0s, I have a script to restart it if the block-count doesn't match an "official block count" I pull from somewhere
1449 2011-02-06 23:45:48 <dirtyfilthy> nanotube: relying on people not wanting to screw reputation for enforcement?
1450 2011-02-06 23:46:05 <Necr0s> Yeah, I'll probably end up doing some script thing to restart it.
1451 2011-02-06 23:46:06 <nanotube> dirtyfilthy: yes, and only lending to people who have a reputation worth not screwing :)
1452 2011-02-06 23:46:11 <Necr0s> Or even just a simple cron job.
1453 2011-02-06 23:46:26 <newsham> loans will be handy when someone wants to short $/btc :)
1454 2011-02-06 23:46:33 <Necr0s> Restarting it every n hours regarsless.
1455 2011-02-06 23:47:39 <molecular> Necr0s, here's my script if you want to use: http://pastebin.com/jphGg95A
1456 2011-02-06 23:47:46 <nanotube> newsham: that has been one of the most popular reason to borrow.
1457 2011-02-06 23:47:59 <newsham> nano: wow, sounds like a lot of tears :)
1458 2011-02-06 23:48:07 <newsham> so far at least
1459 2011-02-06 23:48:29 <nanotube> newsham: no, mostly people have come back happy. :)
1460 2011-02-06 23:48:42 <Necr0s> thx
1461 2011-02-06 23:48:49 <newsham> weird, i only saw one large down turn in $/btc on the history
1462 2011-02-06 23:48:59 <nanotube> it doesn't have to be large, to be profitable. :)
1463 2011-02-06 23:49:07 <newsham> i guess
1464 2011-02-06 23:49:25 <Necr0s> Doesn't shorting USDBTC equate to a bet that BTC will rise in value relative to USD?
1465 2011-02-06 23:49:26 <nanotube> consider - btc was trading at .92, then dipped to .84 just today
1466 2011-02-06 23:49:53 <nanotube> Necr0s: yes. whereas shorting btcusd is the opposite bet.
1467 2011-02-06 23:49:54 <Necr0s> If you're using the forex convention.
1468 2011-02-06 23:49:56 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1469 2011-02-06 23:50:14 <newsham> if $/btc goes up you can buy more with your btc
1470 2011-02-06 23:50:24 <nanotube> Necr0s: which i guess means... i ignored newsham's reversal and parsed it for meaning :)
1471 2011-02-06 23:50:28 <nanotube> rather than nitpicking :)
1472 2011-02-06 23:51:18 <newsham> example. a soda cost $1. if $/btc is 0.5 you need 2btc to buy 1 soda. but at 1 $/btc you only need 1 btc to buy 1 soda
1473 2011-02-06 23:51:35 <newsham> the $/soda market is stable.
1474 2011-02-06 23:51:57 <newsham> $/btc up == btc deflation.
1475 2011-02-06 23:52:03 <Necr0s> Shorting implies an inversion though.
1476 2011-02-06 23:52:05 <nanotube> newsham: when you short, you hope price goes down. so shorting usdbtc, means you hope less usd/btc.
1477 2011-02-06 23:52:06 <newsham> $/btc down == btc inflation
1478 2011-02-06 23:52:23 <newsham> nanotube: ah i see what you're saying
1479 2011-02-06 23:52:42 <newsham> wait, thats what i was implying.
1480 2011-02-06 23:52:50 <nanotube> mmm oh yea
1481 2011-02-06 23:52:52 <newsham> if you loan btc people can use that to be on $/btc down
1482 2011-02-06 23:52:55 <newsham> which is what i was implying
1483 2011-02-06 23:53:03 <newsham> s/be/bet/
1484 2011-02-06 23:53:18 * nanotube is befuddled. heh
1485 2011-02-06 23:53:25 <Necr0s> heh, same here.
1486 2011-02-06 23:53:31 <newsham> to short you borrow something, sell it now, buy it back later.
1487 2011-02-06 23:53:44 <Necr0s> yeah.
1488 2011-02-06 23:54:13 <newsham> so i borrow 1 btc, sell it for $.8, hope that $/btc goes down so i can buy it <$.8/btc later.
1489 2011-02-06 23:54:44 <Necr0s> I guess it's "$/btc" that's confusing me.
1490 2011-02-06 23:54:56 <nanotube> yea i think we're all good on that front now :)
1491 2011-02-06 23:55:41 <newsham> $/btc is the mtgox market.
1492 2011-02-06 23:55:46 <newsham> which is why i use it
1493 2011-02-06 23:57:21 <Necr0s> Forex has these positions you can buy with names like EURUSD, USDGBP, etc, where the positions are reversed.
1494 2011-02-06 23:57:53 <newsham> that would be usdbtc for $/btc
1495 2011-02-06 23:57:56 <newsham> no?
1496 2011-02-06 23:58:02 <newsham> oh, right, its btcusd
1497 2011-02-06 23:58:06 <Necr0s> yeah
1498 2011-02-06 23:58:06 <newsham> btc denominated in usd
1499 2011-02-06 23:58:27 <newsham> $/btc means 'how many dollars per btc', yah, odd its reversed in forex
1500 2011-02-06 23:58:32 <Necr0s> got it now