1 2011-02-10 00:01:56 Cusipzzz has joined
   2 2011-02-10 00:02:05 bitanarchy has joined
   3 2011-02-10 00:04:49 bitanarchy has quit (Client Quit)
   4 2011-02-10 00:05:13 <Diablo-D3> slush: I asked you question
   5 2011-02-10 00:05:16 <Diablo-D3> slush: you ever figure out if my miner was keeping connections open or not?
   6 2011-02-10 00:05:39 <slush> Diablo-D3: I didn't tried it yet
   7 2011-02-10 00:05:42 <slush> Diablo-D3: tomorrow
   8 2011-02-10 00:05:42 <Diablo-D3> heh
   9 2011-02-10 00:06:09 <slush> Diablo-D3: but personally I doubt you're reusing connection
  10 2011-02-10 00:06:16 <slush> Diablo-D3: bitcoind is single threaded
  11 2011-02-10 00:06:30 <Diablo-D3> yes, but it doesnt mean JAVA is.
  12 2011-02-10 00:06:31 <slush> Diablo-D3: that means, leave connection open should lock up bitcoin for other miners
  13 2011-02-10 00:06:50 <Diablo-D3> rutrow
  14 2011-02-10 00:06:53 <Diablo-D3> wait
  15 2011-02-10 00:06:55 <Diablo-D3> no it shouldnt
  16 2011-02-10 00:07:04 <Diablo-D3> because bitcoind doesnt support keepalive
  17 2011-02-10 00:07:13 <Diablo-D3> so the connection would immediately die on request finish
  18 2011-02-10 00:08:25 <genjix> anyone know how to get the transaction dates from bitcoind?
  19 2011-02-10 00:08:39 <rapacity> Diablo-D3: does your miner work with ati radeon HD 5870 + catalyst 11.1 ?
  20 2011-02-10 00:08:47 <Diablo-D3> rapacity: do not use 11.1
  21 2011-02-10 00:08:49 <Diablo-D3> it breaks miners
  22 2011-02-10 00:08:56 <rapacity> ah.thanks
  23 2011-02-10 00:09:12 <slush> Diablo-D3: makes sense
  24 2011-02-10 00:09:17 <slush> Diablo-D3: so I'll try
  25 2011-02-10 00:10:26 Skewtz has joined
  26 2011-02-10 00:10:41 <andrew12> do i get free bitcoins for recruiting someone?! hi Skewtz!
  27 2011-02-10 00:10:46 <andrew12> :p
  28 2011-02-10 00:11:05 <Skewtz> hehe..
  29 2011-02-10 00:11:17 <Diablo-D3> slush: this also means, however, I cant usefully check if it does work
  30 2011-02-10 00:11:22 <Skewtz> yes, andrew pulled my ear to get into here. well not really.
  31 2011-02-10 00:11:25 <Diablo-D3> slush: afiak it should if your side is setup right
  32 2011-02-10 00:11:39 Skewtz is now known as Scootz
  33 2011-02-10 00:11:51 <Diablo-D3> slush: having it enabled would also lower net overhead
  34 2011-02-10 00:12:08 <slush> Diablo-D3: yes, pool definitely keeps connection alive
  35 2011-02-10 00:12:18 <slush> Diablo-D3: but m0mchil close connection every time
  36 2011-02-10 00:12:38 <slush> Diablo-D3: because currently m0mchil's use majority of pool users, this should help pool a lot
  37 2011-02-10 00:12:53 <slush> Diablo-D3: probably the easiest way to check this is to use wireshark
  38 2011-02-10 00:13:01 <Diablo-D3> I dunno why they use his slow out of date miner
  39 2011-02-10 00:13:02 <slush> which I don't have here right now
  40 2011-02-10 00:13:21 <slush> hehe, don't flame :)
  41 2011-02-10 00:15:43 <Diablo-D3> INFERIOR PYTHON IS INFERIOR
  42 2011-02-10 00:15:45 * Diablo-D3 flexes muscles
  43 2011-02-10 00:19:51 <Syke> DiabloMiner is easier to install and uses less CPU. :)
  44 2011-02-10 00:20:06 <slush> Diablo-D3: smart people knows
  45 2011-02-10 00:21:23 <Syke> Diablo-D3, how hard would it be to track how many hashes tested between block successes?
  46 2011-02-10 00:22:18 <Diablo-D3> it wouldnt he hard, but you can roughly estimate anyhow
  47 2011-02-10 00:22:29 <genjix> anyone know how to get the transaction dates from bitcoind?
  48 2011-02-10 00:22:30 <Diablo-D3> take your appox hash rate, and do the math
  49 2011-02-10 00:22:49 <Syke> that's only somewhat accurate if you run 24/7 without interruption
  50 2011-02-10 00:23:28 <Syke> I move machines around, swap video cards, etc.
  51 2011-02-10 00:26:11 <andrew12> ;;bc,stats
  52 2011-02-10 00:26:11 <genjix> if i send a process to the background using ctrl+z, is there an easy to kill it?
  53 2011-02-10 00:26:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107169 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1694 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32172.51273446
  54 2011-02-10 00:26:16 <genjix> kill -9 it
  55 2011-02-10 00:26:30 <ArtForz> fg ?
  56 2011-02-10 00:27:14 <andrew12> genjix: if you don ctrl+z, the process is suspended not sent to the background
  57 2011-02-10 00:27:30 <tcatm> genjix: jobs -l, then kill -9 PID
  58 2011-02-10 00:27:40 <andrew12> s/don/do/
  59 2011-02-10 00:27:53 <genjix> tcatm: that's what I do, but i wondered whether there's just a quick keypress :p
  60 2011-02-10 00:27:57 <genjix> thanks andrew12
  61 2011-02-10 00:28:04 <ArtForz> fg, ctrl-c ?
  62 2011-02-10 00:28:25 <andrew12> sudo killall -u
  63 2011-02-10 00:28:47 <andrew12> inb4 someone types that
  64 2011-02-10 00:29:13 <genjix> andrew12: ctrl-c doesn't kill -9 (if process is blocking)
  65 2011-02-10 00:29:19 <ArtForz> yep
  66 2011-02-10 00:29:31 Kiba has joined
  67 2011-02-10 00:30:03 <ArtForz> if it is blocking, what tcatm said
  68 2011-02-10 00:30:26 <Kiba> so folks
  69 2011-02-10 00:30:37 <Kiba> I heard 50 K dollars worth of bitcoin was sold on the market today
  70 2011-02-10 00:30:38 <genjix> jobs -l is nicer than ps aux :) thanks.
  71 2011-02-10 00:31:49 <genjix> 140k sent in the last 24 hours
  72 2011-02-10 00:31:51 <genjix> crazy...
  73 2011-02-10 00:32:20 <citiz3n> total coins transferred in last 24 hours is 140k?
  74 2011-02-10 00:32:35 <andrew12> wow
  75 2011-02-10 00:32:50 kelvie_ has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
  76 2011-02-10 00:33:03 gigitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  77 2011-02-10 00:34:06 kelvie_ has joined
  78 2011-02-10 00:34:19 gigitrix has joined
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  80 2011-02-10 00:35:06 <Syke> Diablo-D3, if I wrote a patch to keep track of hashes across multiple runs, would you accept it?
  81 2011-02-10 00:35:39 <Diablo-D3> dunno
  82 2011-02-10 00:35:43 <Diablo-D3> doesnt really seem that useful
  83 2011-02-10 00:36:04 gigitrix has joined
  84 2011-02-10 00:36:18 <Diablo-D3> I mean, when you're getting that obsessive about hash speeds, you may need help
  85 2011-02-10 00:36:18 gigitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  86 2011-02-10 00:36:19 * Kiba feels like he need to earn moar bitcoin
  87 2011-02-10 00:38:02 <Diablo-D3> Syke: either tell github to make you a private fork, or put the patch on the forums
  88 2011-02-10 00:38:08 gigitrix has joined
  89 2011-02-10 00:38:12 <genjix> i want to kill myself for selling my 2.7k BTC when it was $1 = 6.5 BTC XD
  90 2011-02-10 00:38:15 <genjix> whyyyyyyyy
  91 2011-02-10 00:38:24 <andrew12> genjix: haha
  92 2011-02-10 00:38:25 gigitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  93 2011-02-10 00:38:34 <Syke> Diablo-D3, yeah, I'll try out a fork
  94 2011-02-10 00:38:39 <genjix> for a measly $500
  95 2011-02-10 00:38:40 <Kiba> genjix: don't worry
  96 2011-02-10 00:38:47 <Kiba> genjix: we're a really really small economy
  97 2011-02-10 00:38:53 * genjix now has 20 btc
  98 2011-02-10 00:38:55 <Kiba> plenty of opportunity for bitcoin wealth growth
  99 2011-02-10 00:39:00 <ArtForz> genjix: small fish
 100 2011-02-10 00:39:06 * Kiba have about 700 BTC
 101 2011-02-10 00:39:08 <Kiba> :D
 102 2011-02-10 00:39:17 <Syke> I want more BTC. Anybody want to buy some slightly used mining boxes for BTC?
 103 2011-02-10 00:39:21 <ArtForz> I think I sold like 70k around $0.06
 104 2011-02-10 00:39:26 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 105 2011-02-10 00:39:41 <genjix> heh
 106 2011-02-10 00:40:28 <genjix> dammit that tv show... i was hoping for the market to dip back down before buying again....
 107 2011-02-10 00:40:33 <genjix> damn to hell XD
 108 2011-02-10 00:40:39 gigitrix has joined
 109 2011-02-10 00:40:39 <andrew12> 1.0001 !
 110 2011-02-10 00:40:58 <andrew12> genjix: it was at .82 for a sec, then it went up to 1.09 :P
 111 2011-02-10 00:40:58 gigitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 112 2011-02-10 00:41:02 <Kiba> YEAH BABY!
 113 2011-02-10 00:41:06 <genjix> sick
 114 2011-02-10 00:41:11 <Diablo-D3> Ill be selling my next 250 soon I think
 115 2011-02-10 00:41:13 <genjix> yeah i saw it at 0.82
 116 2011-02-10 00:41:30 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: why?
 117 2011-02-10 00:41:39 gigitrix has joined
 118 2011-02-10 00:41:55 gigitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 119 2011-02-10 00:42:36 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: because Ill have some
 120 2011-02-10 00:42:41 <Diablo-D3> Ive been selling every 250.
 121 2011-02-10 00:43:11 gigitrix has joined
 122 2011-02-10 00:43:32 gigitrix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 123 2011-02-10 00:48:51 <Diablo-D3> going to bed, night all
 124 2011-02-10 00:49:28 <noagendamarket> Syke do they have 5970's in them ?
 125 2011-02-10 00:50:42 <Syke> no, I just have some 5870s
 126 2011-02-10 00:51:58 <noagendamarket> fail :)
 127 2011-02-10 00:52:29 <Syke> 5970s take some serious coinage.
 128 2011-02-10 00:52:36 <ArtForz> ?
 129 2011-02-10 00:52:47 <Syke> cost
 130 2011-02-10 00:53:04 <ArtForz> they're like $650 new
 131 2011-02-10 00:53:33 <Syke> who has them in stock for that price?
 132 2011-02-10 00:54:10 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 133 2011-02-10 00:55:28 <ArtForz> well, cheapest in stock is about $700 incl. sales tax in .de
 134 2011-02-10 00:56:01 kermit has joined
 135 2011-02-10 00:56:25 <noagendamarket> Ebay ?
 136 2011-02-10 00:56:31 <ArtForz> nope
 137 2011-02-10 00:57:49 <ArtForz> http://www.cyberport.de/?DEEP=2E27-178&APID=14
 138 2011-02-10 00:58:28 <noagendamarket> http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=254_255&products_id=114824&zenid=d653074cddd4ff39734c4d8ef2f5d389    ooh
 139 2011-02-10 00:58:44 <noagendamarket> they took a hundred bucks off the price lol
 140 2011-02-10 00:58:47 <ArtForz> nice price
 141 2011-02-10 00:59:40 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: selling what?
 142 2011-02-10 01:00:04 <ArtForz> luke-jr_: what?
 143 2011-02-10 01:00:10 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: noagendamarket: that's $635 USD
 144 2011-02-10 01:00:18 <luke-jr_> [19:36:18] <Diablo-D3> Ive been selling every 250.
 145 2011-02-10 01:00:19 <luke-jr_> oops, not you
 146 2011-02-10 01:00:26 <luke-jr_> oh, selling bitcoins
 147 2011-02-10 01:01:53 <ArtForz> usually HW in oz is expensive as hell
 148 2011-02-10 01:04:30 Mango-chan has joined
 149 2011-02-10 01:04:32 <Mango-chan> hmm
 150 2011-02-10 01:04:36 <Mango-chan> how much data does bitcon use?
 151 2011-02-10 01:05:18 <ArtForz> bandwidth? storage? ram? what?
 152 2011-02-10 01:05:21 <Mango-chan> bandwidth
 153 2011-02-10 01:05:23 <slush> Mango-chan: storage - tens of MB, network - few kB/s
 154 2011-02-10 01:05:34 <Mango-chan> well
 155 2011-02-10 01:05:34 <Mango-chan> hi
 156 2011-02-10 01:05:36 <ArtForz> not even few kB/s
 157 2011-02-10 01:05:38 <Mango-chan> i'm using your pooled mining
 158 2011-02-10 01:05:49 <ArtForz> more like few B/s
 159 2011-02-10 01:05:53 <Mango-chan> w/ the frequency of share sending
 160 2011-02-10 01:06:24 <ArtForz> well, a bit more for pooled mining
 161 2011-02-10 01:06:25 <slush> Mango-chan: so depends on your miner and used hardware, but it is probably 1 request / 5 sec
 162 2011-02-10 01:06:37 <slush> Mango-chan: every request is typically <1kB
 163 2011-02-10 01:06:41 <Mango-chan> ah
 164 2011-02-10 01:06:46 <Mango-chan> that's good
 165 2011-02-10 01:06:50 <ArtForz> yea
 166 2011-02-10 01:06:57 <Mango-chan> i have a 12gb internet cap
 167 2011-02-10 01:06:58 <Mango-chan> per week
 168 2011-02-10 01:07:02 <Mango-chan> well for the time being
 169 2011-02-10 01:07:04 <slush> if you have extremely strong mining rig, it is something like 10 requests/5 sec
 170 2011-02-10 01:07:14 <Mango-chan> well i'm running 2 6950s
 171 2011-02-10 01:07:16 <Mango-chan> and 1 6970
 172 2011-02-10 01:07:17 <Mango-chan> i mean
 173 2011-02-10 01:07:19 <Mango-chan> 6870
 174 2011-02-10 01:07:32 <slush> 12gb/week is far enough for you
 175 2011-02-10 01:07:41 <Mango-chan> no i have to do other things
 176 2011-02-10 01:07:42 <Mango-chan> lol
 177 2011-02-10 01:07:51 <Mango-chan> not just using this for mining ;_;
 178 2011-02-10 01:08:17 <slush> Mango-chan: average user use 50MB daily
 179 2011-02-10 01:08:20 <slush> on pool
 180 2011-02-10 01:08:30 <Mango-chan> all right
 181 2011-02-10 01:08:32 <Mango-chan> that's fine with me
 182 2011-02-10 01:08:44 <Mango-chan> also
 183 2011-02-10 01:08:49 <Mango-chan> if i don't want to redownload the block counts
 184 2011-02-10 01:09:02 <Mango-chan> can i just copy over the bitcoin directory in user settings
 185 2011-02-10 01:09:11 <slush> yes
 186 2011-02-10 01:09:25 <slush> but take care about wallet.dat
 187 2011-02-10 01:09:29 <slush> it's your money :)
 188 2011-02-10 01:09:50 llama has joined
 189 2011-02-10 01:21:43 <llama> ;bc
 190 2011-02-10 01:21:44 <Mango-chan> what's the current block count
 191 2011-02-10 01:21:51 <llama> ;bc
 192 2011-02-10 01:22:04 <llama> ;;bc
 193 2011-02-10 01:22:04 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
 194 2011-02-10 01:22:09 <llama> ;;blockcount
 195 2011-02-10 01:22:09 <gribble> Error: "blockcount" is not a valid command.
 196 2011-02-10 01:23:00 <llama> Mango-chan: idk ;)
 197 2011-02-10 01:23:06 <Mango-chan> slush
 198 2011-02-10 01:23:09 <Mango-chan> Score <- what's this?
 199 2011-02-10 01:23:23 <slush> weighted shares
 200 2011-02-10 01:23:29 <slush> I'll introduce it tomorrow
 201 2011-02-10 01:23:56 <slush> doesn't affect anything right now
 202 2011-02-10 01:26:07 <molecular> ;;bc,diff
 203 2011-02-10 01:26:08 <gribble> 25997.87992881
 204 2011-02-10 01:26:41 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 205 2011-02-10 01:27:04 <xelister> where is graph of current diff?
 206 2011-02-10 01:27:45 <Mango-chan> also uhh slush
 207 2011-02-10 01:27:48 <Mango-chan> or
 208 2011-02-10 01:27:50 <Mango-chan> anyone
 209 2011-02-10 01:27:56 <Mango-chan> does anyone own a 6950
 210 2011-02-10 01:29:10 <Mango-chan> and is it possible to limit usage to only like
 211 2011-02-10 01:29:13 Gyjf_ has joined
 212 2011-02-10 01:29:13 <Mango-chan> 90% gpu
 213 2011-02-10 01:29:14 <Mango-chan> -3-
 214 2011-02-10 01:29:53 <Gyjf_> hey, just found out about bitcoin, seems awesome, just got some questions
 215 2011-02-10 01:30:18 <prax> sup
 216 2011-02-10 01:30:27 <Gyjf_> were can i see the khps? and can i use my gpu to generate coins?
 217 2011-02-10 01:30:48 <Gyjf_> sorry about that, ill read the topic next time
 218 2011-02-10 01:30:53 <prax> khps should show on your basic client
 219 2011-02-10 01:31:07 <Mango-chan> yes you can use your gpu
 220 2011-02-10 01:31:18 <prax> yup, i just dont know a lot about mining
 221 2011-02-10 01:31:20 <Mango-chan> http://i.imgur.com/Zihb5.jpg <- like this
 222 2011-02-10 01:31:33 <prax> people will maybe link you to the miners/advise u
 223 2011-02-10 01:31:39 <prax> or look in mining section of forum
 224 2011-02-10 01:31:43 redMBA has joined
 225 2011-02-10 01:31:49 spookfish has joined
 226 2011-02-10 01:31:55 gyjf__ has joined
 227 2011-02-10 01:32:02 <slush> Mango-chan: play with -f parameter of your miner
 228 2011-02-10 01:32:03 <gyjf__> sorry about that can you relink?
 229 2011-02-10 01:32:19 <andrew12> haha jgarzik: fprintf(stderr, "all threads dead, fred. exiting.\n");
 230 2011-02-10 01:32:25 <slush> Mango-chan: Higher -f means lower computer load
 231 2011-02-10 01:32:45 <Mango-chan> i see
 232 2011-02-10 01:32:45 altamic has joined
 233 2011-02-10 01:32:45 altamic has quit (Changing host)
 234 2011-02-10 01:32:45 altamic has joined
 235 2011-02-10 01:33:51 <gyjf__> where do i download the gpu client? and is it only for linux?
 236 2011-02-10 01:34:45 <tcatm> gyjf__: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?board=14.0
 237 2011-02-10 01:35:15 <gyjf__> thank you
 238 2011-02-10 01:35:18 Gyjf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 239 2011-02-10 01:37:17 Mango-chan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 240 2011-02-10 01:38:53 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 241 2011-02-10 01:38:56 Mango-chan has joined
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 243 2011-02-10 01:43:38 gyjf__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 246 2011-02-10 01:46:28 <genjix> anyone know how to get the transaction dates from bitcoind?
 247 2011-02-10 01:46:46 Mango-chan has joined
 248 2011-02-10 01:46:47 <Mango-chan> lol
 249 2011-02-10 01:46:54 <tcatm> genjix: listtransactions?
 250 2011-02-10 01:47:01 <Mango-chan> had to disable
 251 2011-02-10 01:47:07 <Mango-chan> flash gpu acceleration
 252 2011-02-10 01:47:07 <Mango-chan> -3-
 253 2011-02-10 01:47:17 <genjix> tcatm: doesn't say it in 0.3.19 beta
 254 2011-02-10 01:47:26 <tcatm> hm
 255 2011-02-10 01:47:37 <tcatm> it's in .20
 256 2011-02-10 01:47:39 <genjix> Mango-chan: i agree that was a hilarious joke told my andrew12 :)
 257 2011-02-10 01:47:45 <genjix> tcatm: ok thanks
 258 2011-02-10 01:47:49 <Mango-chan> genjix what
 259 2011-02-10 01:47:50 <genjix> (will upgrade)
 260 2011-02-10 01:47:52 <tcatm> we really need to get .20 released
 261 2011-02-10 01:47:57 <andrew12> do it! lol
 262 2011-02-10 01:48:35 <genjix> gavin linked it above but i didn't get around to testing it :p
 263 2011-02-10 01:49:11 <genjix> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/bitcoin-0.3.20-linux.tar.gz/download
 264 2011-02-10 01:49:19 <genjix> if anyone wants to help beta test :)
 265 2011-02-10 01:49:26 <Mango-chan> slush
 266 2011-02-10 01:49:29 <Mango-chan> could you explain the scores thing?
 267 2011-02-10 01:49:37 <slush> tomorrow
 268 2011-02-10 01:50:26 <slush> in short:
 269 2011-02-10 01:50:26 <slush> score += exp(round_time/C) for every new share
 270 2011-02-10 01:50:27 <Mango-chan> ah ok
 271 2011-02-10 01:50:34 <Mango-chan> what's the point of it
 272 2011-02-10 01:50:36 <Mango-chan> epeen
 273 2011-02-10 01:50:37 <Mango-chan> ?
 274 2011-02-10 01:50:42 <slush> where C is some constant, for example 300 for 5 minute
 275 2011-02-10 01:51:17 <slush> epeen?
 276 2011-02-10 01:51:24 <Mango-chan> epenis
 277 2011-02-10 01:51:35 <slush> e penis?
 278 2011-02-10 01:51:47 <Mango-chan> something to brag about
 279 2011-02-10 01:51:51 <Mango-chan> but nothing of useful value
 280 2011-02-10 01:51:54 <Mango-chan> -useful
 281 2011-02-10 01:52:40 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 282 2011-02-10 01:52:47 <slush> well, it's core of new accounting, which will be enabled in few days
 283 2011-02-10 01:52:59 <slush> user reward = score / total score
 284 2011-02-10 01:53:03 mtgox has joined
 285 2011-02-10 01:53:14 <slush> instead of shares / total shares
 286 2011-02-10 01:53:17 <Mango-chan> oh
 287 2011-02-10 01:53:21 <slush> both * 50 BTC, of course
 288 2011-02-10 01:53:29 <Mango-chan> what's the motive behind change?
 289 2011-02-10 01:53:34 <Mango-chan> is it more accurate?
 290 2011-02-10 01:53:45 <Mango-chan> does it help certain users?
 291 2011-02-10 01:53:50 <slush> in fact, it is less acurate
 292 2011-02-10 01:53:57 <Mango-chan> then... why the change?
 293 2011-02-10 01:53:58 <slush> there's more variability than share based accounting
 294 2011-02-10 01:54:27 <slush> Mango-chan: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3165.0
 295 2011-02-10 01:54:54 <slush> anti-cheating solution
 296 2011-02-10 01:55:44 <slush> At this time, I'm using score for internal purposes and for fitting correct value of C
 297 2011-02-10 01:55:52 <Kiba> 1 USD is worth .98 USD :D
 298 2011-02-10 01:55:57 <Kiba> err
 299 2011-02-10 01:56:00 <Kiba> .98 BTC
 300 2011-02-10 01:56:19 <slush> there will be some variability in rewards between rounds, but should not affect daily reward too much.
 301 2011-02-10 01:56:26 <Kiba> 1 gram of gold is worth 50 BTC
 302 2011-02-10 01:56:28 * tcatm buys 1 USD recursivly for 0.98 USD
 303 2011-02-10 01:56:41 <Mango-chan> i see
 304 2011-02-10 01:59:53 <andrew12> hh
 305 2011-02-10 01:59:54 <andrew12> heh
 306 2011-02-10 02:04:35 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
 307 2011-02-10 02:11:55 testthis has joined
 308 2011-02-10 02:13:15 testthis has quit (Client Quit)
 309 2011-02-10 02:13:15 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 310 2011-02-10 02:14:11 theymos has joined
 311 2011-02-10 02:18:49 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 312 2011-02-10 02:21:15 prax has joined
 313 2011-02-10 02:24:56 mtgox has joined
 314 2011-02-10 02:26:37 <xelister> BTC is flying higher then rms while planning gnu hurd.
 315 2011-02-10 02:28:23 altamic has joined
 316 2011-02-10 02:28:30 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
 317 2011-02-10 02:28:30 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.82,"vol":49767,"buy":1.0497,"sell":1.0575,"last":1.0878}}
 318 2011-02-10 02:28:41 <da2ce7> ooh the $1 is well cleared
 319 2011-02-10 02:30:15 <noagendamarket> resistance is futile
 320 2011-02-10 02:31:06 <da2ce7> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3284.msg46195#msg46195 rofl
 321 2011-02-10 02:32:44 <andrew12> huhl
 322 2011-02-10 02:33:25 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 323 2011-02-10 02:33:26 <noagendamarket> maybe steve is buying all the coins lol
 324 2011-02-10 02:34:28 <andrew12> lol
 325 2011-02-10 02:34:42 <andrew12> heh
 326 2011-02-10 02:34:53 <andrew12> anyone else noticed that #bitcoin-dev and #bitcoin-otc have been reversed today?
 327 2011-02-10 02:44:57 <Kiba> reversed?
 328 2011-02-10 02:45:39 <andrew12> like, the stuff that would normally be in there was in here, and vice versa
 329 2011-02-10 03:02:39 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 330 2011-02-10 03:03:24 CyanDynamo1 has joined
 331 2011-02-10 03:03:44 altamic has joined
 332 2011-02-10 03:04:11 <noagendamarket> dman the bitcoinmedia twitter account got 52 followers today lol
 333 2011-02-10 03:04:21 <andrew12> wow
 334 2011-02-10 03:04:28 <prax> i'll follow u
 335 2011-02-10 03:04:44 * noagendamarket is a cult leader
 336 2011-02-10 03:05:07 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 337 2011-02-10 03:06:00 <andrew12> lol
 338 2011-02-10 03:06:19 <genjix> ill follow u for the hell of it too
 339 2011-02-10 03:11:03 Scootz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 340 2011-02-10 03:13:30 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 341 2011-02-10 03:19:48 <andrew12> huh
 342 2011-02-10 03:19:59 <andrew12> mtgox is accepting paypal again?
 343 2011-02-10 03:20:16 <andrew12> well http://bitcoinmorpheus.tumblr.com/How_to_buy_mt_gox_usd_with_paypal
 344 2011-02-10 03:20:51 <theymos> That site looks shady.
 345 2011-02-10 03:21:10 <andrew12> It's on https://mtgox.com/users/addFunds
 346 2011-02-10 03:21:38 <theymos> I noticed that, but I don't know or trust the owner of the Morpheus exchange.
 347 2011-02-10 03:23:34 <Kiba> YOu don't trust morpheus?
 348 2011-02-10 03:28:03 <theymos> I don't recall ever seeing him here. He's not in the trust database as far as I can see.
 349 2011-02-10 03:31:15 <andrew12> :x
 350 2011-02-10 03:34:19 <noagendamarket> yeah very strange
 351 2011-02-10 03:34:44 <noagendamarket> although he is named after the matrix character lol
 352 2011-02-10 03:35:21 <theymos> Maybe he is named after the greek god of dreams, or the P2P client. ;)
 353 2011-02-10 03:35:50 <andrew12> what about satoshi? :p
 354 2011-02-10 03:36:17 <theymos> "Satoshi" means "wise", I've heard.
 355 2011-02-10 03:37:40 <Mango-chan> hm
 356 2011-02-10 03:37:44 <Mango-chan> how anonymous are bitcoin transactions?
 357 2011-02-10 03:37:56 <Mango-chan> if i were to make a new wallet for every transaction
 358 2011-02-10 03:37:57 <Mango-chan> i make
 359 2011-02-10 03:38:01 <Mango-chan> how anonymous will i remain?
 360 2011-02-10 03:39:05 <theymos> See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity . The best strategy is to make a MyBitcoin account and us that account only for sending and receiving anonymous transactions.
 361 2011-02-10 03:39:35 <theymos> I wouldn't use the Bitcoin client for anonymity, even over Tor. It's too vulnerable to timing attacks.
 362 2011-02-10 03:45:59 andrew12 has quit (Quit: leaving)
 363 2011-02-10 03:47:33 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 364 2011-02-10 03:48:40 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
 365 2011-02-10 03:49:03 CyanDynamo has joined
 366 2011-02-10 03:49:12 dukeleto has joined
 367 2011-02-10 03:54:16 andrew12 has joined
 368 2011-02-10 04:08:10 <CyanDynamo> http://dbzer0.com/blog/it-a-modern-window-into-the-historical-dislike-of-bosses-against-expertise
 369 2011-02-10 04:21:49 lfm has joined
 370 2011-02-10 04:25:02 redMBA has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 371 2011-02-10 04:29:55 <citiz3n> the pool hasn't found a block in 3.5 hours?
 372 2011-02-10 04:30:14 <andrew12> bitcoin is crashing! run!
 373 2011-02-10 04:30:47 <sgornick> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#vztgSzm1g10zm2g25
 374 2011-02-10 04:30:52 <sgornick> wrong link
 375 2011-02-10 04:31:08 <sgornick> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2200705
 376 2011-02-10 04:31:56 <doublec> citiz3n: how do you tell? the pool page removed time statistics I thought.
 377 2011-02-10 04:32:01 <da2ce7> I just relised that my bounties are starting to be worth somethin!
 378 2011-02-10 04:32:05 <citiz3n> times still show up there
 379 2011-02-10 04:32:11 <citiz3n> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/
 380 2011-02-10 04:32:26 <doublec> the list of found blocks is delayed 2 hours
 381 2011-02-10 04:32:38 <citiz3n> ah really?
 382 2011-02-10 04:32:42 <citiz3n> wonder why that is
 383 2011-02-10 04:33:00 <doublec> to try and stop people cheating the pool
 384 2011-02-10 04:33:08 <doublec> by jumping onto other pools when it suits them
 385 2011-02-10 04:33:49 <citiz3n> ah
 386 2011-02-10 04:33:57 <citiz3n> that was mostly fixed already i think
 387 2011-02-10 04:34:00 <citiz3n> with weighted shares
 388 2011-02-10 04:34:07 <citiz3n> but i suppose some cheating could still be done
 389 2011-02-10 04:34:16 <Cusipzzz> still a quick block can be exploited
 390 2011-02-10 04:34:18 <doublec> has weighted shares happened already?
 391 2011-02-10 04:37:37 <luke-jr_> citiz3n: what's wrong with pool hopping?
 392 2011-02-10 04:39:10 <andrew12> heh
 393 2011-02-10 04:41:30 <citiz3n> what does the "score" mean under each worker
 394 2011-02-10 04:41:34 <citiz3n> in the pool my account page
 395 2011-02-10 04:45:22 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 396 2011-02-10 04:45:58 <doublec> it's the new system for computing how many bitcoins miners gets
 397 2011-02-10 04:46:04 <luke-jr_> can I borrow 1.40 BTC by any chance? XD
 398 2011-02-10 04:46:05 <doublec> not yet enabled so currently it means nothing
 399 2011-02-10 04:46:16 <doublec> according to slush's post in the forums
 400 2011-02-10 04:46:42 <andrew12> luke-jr_: for?
 401 2011-02-10 04:46:50 <luke-jr_> so I have 100 and can sell
 402 2011-02-10 04:46:51 redMBA has joined
 403 2011-02-10 04:46:56 <andrew12> heh
 404 2011-02-10 04:47:09 <nanotube> luke-jr_: bitcoinmarket is closed atm anyway
 405 2011-02-10 04:47:19 <andrew12> fine, but i charge 100% monthly interest
 406 2011-02-10 04:47:33 <genjix> noagendamarket: you know that scrolling thing on bitcoinmedia?
 407 2011-02-10 04:47:35 <luke-jr_> it actually only operates during specific times? O.o
 408 2011-02-10 04:47:37 <andrew12> s/monthly/daily/
 409 2011-02-10 04:47:38 <andrew12> jk
 410 2011-02-10 04:47:49 <noagendamarket> genjix yes why ?
 411 2011-02-10 04:47:49 <luke-jr_> andrew12: usury is immoral, so I cannot solicit that.
 412 2011-02-10 04:48:14 <andrew12> luke-jr_: how much will i get back? and when? :)
 413 2011-02-10 04:48:25 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 414 2011-02-10 04:48:30 <genjix> noagendamarket: i want to put it in a client using QWebKit... could you maybe provide a special version?
 415 2011-02-10 04:48:35 <nanotube> luke-jr_: yes, it is closed evening/night EST (or thereabouts)
 416 2011-02-10 04:48:46 <genjix> noagendamarket: is it easy for you to do?
 417 2011-02-10 04:48:52 <luke-jr_> andrew12: the same value you let me borrow, as soon as I get it ;)
 418 2011-02-10 04:49:00 <genjix> http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2757/screenshothe.png (easy client for beginners)
 419 2011-02-10 04:49:14 <luke-jr_> andrew12: but if I do borrow, please inform me beforehand how you will be evaluating the value
 420 2011-02-10 04:49:56 <andrew12> luke-jr_: i really don't care when you send it back :p
 421 2011-02-10 04:49:57 <doublec> I think he evaluates the value as being 100% more than the principal...
 422 2011-02-10 04:50:16 <andrew12> it was a joke. im not going to do any interest. :p
 423 2011-02-10 04:50:17 <noagendamarket> http://www.mirocommunity.org/    genjix you can get the code from them
 424 2011-02-10 04:50:24 <luke-jr_> andrew12: well, apparently I'm in no rush (nanotube's info)
 425 2011-02-10 04:50:26 <noagendamarket> its open source
 426 2011-02-10 04:50:40 <luke-jr_> andrew12: if bitcoins double in value over night, I'd make up the difference :p
 427 2011-02-10 04:50:54 <genjix> thanks... i thught you wrote it yourself and might have an API :p
 428 2011-02-10 04:51:06 <noagendamarket> yeah right lol
 429 2011-02-10 04:51:38 <lfm> luke-jr_: how much you wanna borrow?
 430 2011-02-10 04:51:43 <luke-jr_> lfm: 1.40
 431 2011-02-10 04:51:51 <luke-jr_> but probably by the time the market opens, I will have it on my own
 432 2011-02-10 04:52:17 <x6763> is the forum down?
 433 2011-02-10 04:52:28 <luke-jr_> no
 434 2011-02-10 04:52:40 <genjix> no
 435 2011-02-10 04:52:52 <doublec> it's traditional for the forum to go down when someone podcasts or blogs about bitcoin...but not this time
 436 2011-02-10 04:53:05 <x6763> eh, i think comcast is being craptastic again
 437 2011-02-10 04:53:07 <andrew12> luke-jr_: send me an address
 438 2011-02-10 04:53:32 <x6763> lots of packet loss
 439 2011-02-10 04:54:07 <luke-jr_> andrew12: but I don't need it now…
 440 2011-02-10 04:54:13 pogden has joined
 441 2011-02-10 04:54:44 <genjix> haha! someone's selling LSD on the forums :D
 442 2011-02-10 04:54:49 <andrew12> luke-jr_: do you want it now?
 443 2011-02-10 04:54:54 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3289.0
 444 2011-02-10 04:54:57 <genjix> fo real
 445 2011-02-10 05:00:15 <luke-jr_> andrew12: no
 446 2011-02-10 05:00:30 <noagendamarket> hehe
 447 2011-02-10 05:00:38 <andrew12> heh
 448 2011-02-10 05:00:57 <andrew12> okay then. your loss. i was gonna send you 1.8 BUT NOW ITS TOO LATE.
 449 2011-02-10 05:01:00 <noagendamarket> thats hilarious
 450 2011-02-10 05:01:27 <luke-jr_> :p
 451 2011-02-10 05:01:39 * noagendamarket waits for a fed honeypot shitstorm
 452 2011-02-10 05:02:08 <luke-jr_> 1KczVqwopWXQdFLe5sNQbpCq7yGSmXx2oo is my *random donations* address, but at the moment, I am not looking to borrow any
 453 2011-02-10 05:02:42 <noagendamarket> I have a randomn paypal address lol
 454 2011-02-10 05:02:50 * andrew12 randomly sends .1 bitcoins
 455 2011-02-10 05:02:57 <doublec> hmm, good concept luke-jr_. Please, no one send money to 1KbReEEfSkyojWXpRSjL17dUSUWWoE6CBM. I urgently require that you send no bitcoins to that address.
 456 2011-02-10 05:03:08 <luke-jr_> :P
 457 2011-02-10 05:03:20 <andrew12> 13vfmJ9MsecfacFVgXL5WAjB1mQr8VVVi8
 458 2011-02-10 05:03:22 <andrew12> me too!
 459 2011-02-10 05:03:28 <doublec> hehe
 460 2011-02-10 05:03:34 <nanotube> oh yes, and i think gribble's donation address at ,,botsnack is way too full of bitcoins, so please don't send him any for a while until he can digest.
 461 2011-02-10 05:03:34 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
 462 2011-02-10 05:03:42 <andrew12> as a matter of fact, here's 3 more addresses!
 463 2011-02-10 05:03:45 <andrew12> 1PBLzGkuczRkQSRXc4utdA4yy12NQGVrqe
 464 2011-02-10 05:03:45 <andrew12> 1NYVVrdwwBWKddLumc5SEqC4TQuxrVe2o8
 465 2011-02-10 05:03:46 <andrew12> 1ENmsNfFnWujr4e8XfDfSFhGeXMF5KEoJY
 466 2011-02-10 05:03:50 <andrew12> :P
 467 2011-02-10 05:04:00 <doublec> hey, don't waste those addresses. Remember, they can never be produced again!
 468 2011-02-10 05:04:36 Ralith has joined
 469 2011-02-10 05:04:44 * luke-jr_ wonders if it would be profitable to have his GPU generating a rainbow table of addresses instead of mining <.<
 470 2011-02-10 05:04:55 <Kiba> somebody said he would bet that bitcoin will fail within 5 years
 471 2011-02-10 05:05:01 <luke-jr_> bet what?
 472 2011-02-10 05:05:02 <Ralith> 20:58:34 < Ralith> can anyone give me a hand getting a GPU miner running on a Radeon 5850?
 473 2011-02-10 05:05:05 <Ralith> 20:58:40 < Ralith> Nothing seems to be able to detect an OpenCL device.
 474 2011-02-10 05:05:07 <Ralith> 20:58:58 < Ralith> I've tried catalyst 10.12 and 11.1 both.
 475 2011-02-10 05:05:15 <sgornick> anyone care to help answer this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2200837
 476 2011-02-10 05:05:17 <Ralith> OS is windows 7 64 bit
 477 2011-02-10 05:05:18 <Kiba> luke-jr_: an infinite amount of money
 478 2011-02-10 05:05:18 <Mango-chan> install atistream Ralith
 479 2011-02-10 05:05:22 <luke-jr_> Ralith: use Linux
 480 2011-02-10 05:05:35 <Mango-chan> http://i.imgur.com/Zihb5.jpg
 481 2011-02-10 05:05:35 <Ralith> Mango-chan: if by atistream you mean the OpenCL drivers aka stream SDK, I did.
 482 2011-02-10 05:05:36 <Mango-chan> pic related
 483 2011-02-10 05:05:43 <sgornick> hackernews rate-limits, and i've hit my posting limit.
 484 2011-02-10 05:05:47 <redMBA> anyone trading bitcoin puts?
 485 2011-02-10 05:06:15 <Ralith> Mango-chan: before I did that, I had a DLL not found error.  Now I just have the programs finding zero OpenCL devices.
 486 2011-02-10 05:06:29 <Mango-chan> uninstall drivers and reinstall
 487 2011-02-10 05:07:52 <Ralith> okay
 488 2011-02-10 05:08:28 <lfm> Ralith: did you install the opnecl SDK?
 489 2011-02-10 05:09:04 <Ralith> lfm: I answered that above.  The answer was yes.
 490 2011-02-10 05:09:43 <ArtForz> does gpu-z detect ocl capability?
 491 2011-02-10 05:10:45 <ArtForz> also, if you had driver 11.1 installed, you probably have parts of sdk 2.3 still floating about your system
 492 2011-02-10 05:11:45 <ArtForz> 11.1 includes some of the opencl runtime dlls from sdk 2.3, and atis driver uninstaller likes to miss shit
 493 2011-02-10 05:11:53 <Ralith> well, I Just did a full uninstall and reboot
 494 2011-02-10 05:12:00 <Ralith> and am installing 10.12 now
 495 2011-02-10 05:12:37 <ArtForz> btw, might also want to try 10.11
 496 2011-02-10 05:12:43 <Ralith> oh?
 497 2011-02-10 05:12:45 <Ralith> why's that?
 498 2011-02-10 05:12:53 <ArtForz> some people have reported problems with 10.12
 499 2011-02-10 05:13:18 <Ralith> okay, will try
 500 2011-02-10 05:13:19 <ArtForz> no clue
 501 2011-02-10 05:13:22 <luke-jr_> 10.12 works for me
 502 2011-02-10 05:13:25 <ArtForz> but it should basically work
 503 2011-02-10 05:13:33 <da2ce7> 11.1 works great for me
 504 2011-02-10 05:13:33 <luke-jr_> in fact, 10.12 is the oldest version that *can* work for me
 505 2011-02-10 05:13:50 <luke-jr_> older versions don't work with 2.6.37
 506 2011-02-10 05:13:57 <luke-jr_> and older kernels don't boot my machine
 507 2011-02-10 05:13:58 <ArtForz> might just be a bit slower than optimum
 508 2011-02-10 05:14:04 <Ralith> this is windows, not linux
 509 2011-02-10 05:14:10 <luke-jr_> Ralith: there's the problem
 510 2011-02-10 05:14:16 <Ralith> luke-jr_: that's incredibly unhelpful.
 511 2011-02-10 05:14:26 <Ralith> da2ce7: what OS are you on?
 512 2011-02-10 05:14:30 <da2ce7> everyone complains about windows miners... they work great for me.
 513 2011-02-10 05:14:37 <da2ce7> win7x64
 514 2011-02-10 05:14:44 <da2ce7> sp1
 515 2011-02-10 05:15:12 <Ralith> same here.
 516 2011-02-10 05:15:13 <luke-jr_> Ralith: it doesn't work because your system's been infected by the bitcoin-based botnet/worm, and it's already mining your GPU for Joe Cracker
 517 2011-02-10 05:15:19 <Ralith> will try 1.11 again
 518 2011-02-10 05:15:22 <Ralith> er
 519 2011-02-10 05:15:23 <Ralith> 11.1
 520 2011-02-10 05:15:25 <Ralith> after 10.10
 521 2011-02-10 05:15:35 <ArtForz> iirc some people saw 10% or so performance drop after "upgrading" to 10.12
 522 2011-02-10 05:15:51 <Ralith> (10.11 is listed as "not verified to be OpenCL compliant")
 523 2011-02-10 05:16:00 <lfm>  /ignore luke-jr_ all
 524 2011-02-10 05:16:03 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: ever seen a problem which causes a decrease in yields w/o a decrease in MH/s speed?
 525 2011-02-10 05:16:10 <da2ce7> well I'm getting 272Mhash/s @ 800MHz
 526 2011-02-10 05:16:24 <da2ce7> per core
 527 2011-02-10 05:16:33 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
 528 2011-02-10 05:16:35 <Mango-chan> guys
 529 2011-02-10 05:16:39 <Mango-chan> what's the current rate of computatio
 530 2011-02-10 05:16:40 <Mango-chan> n
 531 2011-02-10 05:16:41 <Mango-chan> ?
 532 2011-02-10 05:16:46 <Mango-chan> of the entire server
 533 2011-02-10 05:16:48 <da2ce7> go to bitcoincharts.com
 534 2011-02-10 05:16:48 <Mango-chan> or network
 535 2011-02-10 05:16:53 <Mango-chan> k thanks
 536 2011-02-10 05:16:56 <da2ce7> it says in the stats
 537 2011-02-10 05:17:09 <andrew12> it's an estimate though
 538 2011-02-10 05:17:29 <da2ce7> andrew12, you can only estimate...
 539 2011-02-10 05:17:41 <da2ce7> it isn't really possible to calculate the 'acutal' ammount
 540 2011-02-10 05:18:04 <andrew12> i know
 541 2011-02-10 05:18:06 <andrew12> lol
 542 2011-02-10 05:18:57 <ArtForz> yeah, it's weird
 543 2011-02-10 05:18:58 <ArtForz> da2ce7: with multiple GPUs and diablos miner?
 544 2011-02-10 05:18:59 <ArtForz> anyways, no GPUs detected is usually a bad driver/sdk install
 545 2011-02-10 05:19:02 <ArtForz> standard solution, uninstall sdk, uninstall driver, install driver, install sdk, shit magically starts working
 546 2011-02-10 05:19:25 <lfm> luke-jr: if there is a bug in the sha or various handleing fo rthe nonce and such then it might never find any proper hashes even if it reports hash/s
 547 2011-02-10 05:19:58 <Ralith> okay, installing 10.10 fixed the 'no devices found' problem
 548 2011-02-10 05:20:03 <Ralith> now the python miner is giving me another error
 549 2011-02-10 05:20:10 <luke-jr> lfm: but it's not 0%, it's like 50-80%
 550 2011-02-10 05:20:13 <Ralith> "InvalidURL: nonnumeric port: 'ass=<my password>'
 551 2011-02-10 05:20:14 <Ralith> "
 552 2011-02-10 05:20:17 <Ralith> any idea wtf?
 553 2011-02-10 05:20:20 <noagendamarket> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3166.new#new   lmao
 554 2011-02-10 05:21:02 <ArtForz> mix up of - and -- ?
 555 2011-02-10 05:21:17 <Ralith> nope
 556 2011-02-10 05:21:20 <ArtForz> luke-jr: bug in miner, crossfire bugs
 557 2011-02-10 05:22:01 <andrew12> Ralith: post the entire command, of course removing your private stuff
 558 2011-02-10 05:22:21 redMBA has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 559 2011-02-10 05:22:40 RagnarDan has joined
 560 2011-02-10 05:23:07 <Ralith> RPC miner runs but gives 0 khash/s
 561 2011-02-10 05:23:30 <Ralith> andrew12: poclbm.exe -user=user -pass=pass -v -w 128 -f 5 -d 1
 562 2011-02-10 05:23:41 <luke-jr> ArtForz: well, only one 5850, so no crossfire problems for sure, right?
 563 2011-02-10 05:23:47 <luke-jr> and it's standard poclbm…
 564 2011-02-10 05:24:09 <Mango-chan> d 1?
 565 2011-02-10 05:24:12 <Mango-chan> i thought gpus are 0
 566 2011-02-10 05:24:24 <luke-jr> Ralith: -p is port, you want --pass
 567 2011-02-10 05:24:34 <luke-jr> Mango-chan: depends. mine is randomly 0 or 1 :/
 568 2011-02-10 05:24:40 <andrew12> and --user instead of -user.
 569 2011-02-10 05:24:42 <Ralith> Mango-chan: d 0 breaks
 570 2011-02-10 05:24:45 <Ralith> andrew12: ahh, thanks
 571 2011-02-10 05:24:52 <luke-jr> Ralith: also, you're aware that -f 5 will probably freeze your video output?
 572 2011-02-10 05:24:55 <Ralith> andrew12: the webpage I copied from autoconverted -- to —
 573 2011-02-10 05:25:17 <andrew12> no worries
 574 2011-02-10 05:25:23 <Ralith> runs
 575 2011-02-10 05:25:24 <Ralith> :D
 576 2011-02-10 05:25:25 <Ralith> thanks!
 577 2011-02-10 05:25:28 <lfm> Ralith: any time you change the driver you may have to reinstall the sdk
 578 2011-02-10 05:25:32 <luke-jr> Ralith: how is user interaction?
 579 2011-02-10 05:25:36 <andrew12> now send me bitcoins! ;)
 580 2011-02-10 05:25:41 <ArtForz> Ralith: mixup of - and -- for your options?
 581 2011-02-10 05:25:43 <Ralith> 260 mhash/s
 582 2011-02-10 05:25:54 <Ralith> ArtForz: yep, after all.
 583 2011-02-10 05:26:00 <luke-jr> Ralith: I mean, your monitor/mouse/etc, how well is it working?
 584 2011-02-10 05:26:09 <luke-jr> I know mine basically freezes at -f 1
 585 2011-02-10 05:26:27 <andrew12> grr
 586 2011-02-10 05:26:30 <Ralith> luke-jr: lags it to hell, good point
 587 2011-02-10 05:26:36 <andrew12> i really need to build a good pc
 588 2011-02-10 05:26:37 <andrew12> haha
 589 2011-02-10 05:26:49 <Ralith> ArtForz: guess I should've asked what the correct one was rather than writing it off.
 590 2011-02-10 05:27:01 <Ralith> still, fie on the dev for not doing input validation >_>
 591 2011-02-10 05:27:21 <Ralith> luke-jr: what is -f, and which way should I adjust it?
 592 2011-02-10 05:27:33 <nanotube> Ralith: "InvalidURL: nonnumeric port: 'ass=<my password>' <-- input validation
 593 2011-02-10 05:27:33 <andrew12> --help
 594 2011-02-10 05:27:52 <andrew12> and what nanotube said
 595 2011-02-10 05:27:55 <Ralith> nanotube: no, that's an internal exception being spammily thrown :P
 596 2011-02-10 05:28:04 <nanotube> semantics :)
 597 2011-02-10 05:28:07 <Ralith> ^^
 598 2011-02-10 05:28:17 <Ralith> do I lose any state if I kill and restart the miner?
 599 2011-02-10 05:28:30 <nanotube> there's no state to lose
 600 2011-02-10 05:28:33 <andrew12> there is no state to lose
 601 2011-02-10 05:28:40 <andrew12> dammit nanotube!
 602 2011-02-10 05:28:42 <nanotube> lol
 603 2011-02-10 05:28:51 <Ralith> well, progress towards a solution is stored somehow, no?
 604 2011-02-10 05:28:56 <Netsniper> Anarchy: There is no state to lose!
 605 2011-02-10 05:29:04 <Ralith> or am I missing something
 606 2011-02-10 05:29:06 <nanotube> andrew12: i think the reason i beat you is because i saved one extra character lol
 607 2011-02-10 05:29:14 <nanotube> Ralith: there's no such thing as progress towards solution
 608 2011-02-10 05:29:18 <andrew12> plus because i'm on my phone
 609 2011-02-10 05:29:19 <Ralith> if you say so!
 610 2011-02-10 05:29:20 <nanotube> Ralith: every hash has equal probability of being right.
 611 2011-02-10 05:29:24 <Ralith> ah, I see.
 612 2011-02-10 05:29:25 <Ralith> okay
 613 2011-02-10 05:29:28 <luke-jr> Ralith: lower numbers = laggy
 614 2011-02-10 05:29:41 <andrew12> ;;bc,probability
 615 2011-02-10 05:29:41 <gribble> Error: "bc,probability" is not a valid command.
 616 2011-02-10 05:29:43 <andrew12> hm
 617 2011-02-10 05:30:08 <luke-jr> Ralith: personally, if -f is too high, mining is far far too slow; and if -f isn't too high, usage lags
 618 2011-02-10 05:30:15 <andrew12> http://blockexplorer.com/q/probability
 619 2011-02-10 05:30:16 <luke-jr> so I simply don't mine on my primary interface
 620 2011-02-10 05:30:59 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
 621 2011-02-10 05:30:59 noagendamarket has joined
 622 2011-02-10 05:31:23 <ArtForz> argh, laaag
 623 2011-02-10 05:31:47 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 624 2011-02-10 05:31:58 <nanotube> ;;bc,prob 260000 1w
 625 2011-02-10 05:31:58 <gribble> 0.755435099899
 626 2011-02-10 05:32:00 <nanotube> andrew12: --^
 627 2011-02-10 05:32:06 <nanotube> takes hash rate, and time period
 628 2011-02-10 05:32:12 <nanotube> gives prob of finding block in that time
 629 2011-02-10 05:32:25 <Ralith> handy
 630 2011-02-10 05:33:23 <Ralith> luke-jr: miner docs recommended -f 5 for a 5870; I gues that's if you're not using the card for UI.
 631 2011-02-10 05:33:41 <luke-jr> Ralith: my Radeon does nothing but mine
 632 2011-02-10 05:34:15 * ArtForz kicks his he.net tunnel
 633 2011-02-10 05:34:18 <ArtForz> yay, 103s ping
 634 2011-02-10 05:34:19 <ArtForz> yes, seconds
 635 2011-02-10 05:34:19 <Ralith> -f 20 gives usable-though-still-laggy UI without costing much
 636 2011-02-10 05:34:32 <luke-jr> -f 5 gets me 1 MH/s less than -f 1
 637 2011-02-10 05:34:37 <andrew12> ;;bc,prob 600 1d
 638 2011-02-10 05:34:37 <gribble> 0.000464158585237
 639 2011-02-10 05:34:40 <andrew12> hehe
 640 2011-02-10 05:36:46 <andrew12> ;;list alias
 641 2011-02-10 05:36:46 <gribble> ?, about, add, bc,bcm, bc,blocks, bc,btcex, bc,calc, bc,calcd, bc,diff, bc,estimate, bc,help, bc,hextarget, bc,labs, bc,lbs, bc,markets, bc,mtgox, bc,nexttarget, bc,poolstats, bc,prob, bc,stats, bc,timetonext, bc,totalbc, bc,wiki, blockmonitor, bot, botsnack, boturl, botweb, cheer, configure, ctell, direct, factlist, facts, getprefix, give, giveout, h, help, histsearch, hug, isitdown, (1 more message)
 642 2011-02-10 05:36:53 <andrew12> ;;more
 643 2011-02-10 05:36:53 <gribble> lock, ls, mp, oobhresponse, otc, pet, petuser, pong, remove, sfideasearch, sfticketsearch, sfuserpage, sfwikisearch, sl, slap, smack, targetproject, texthelp, ud, unlock, wk, wp, and yt
 644 2011-02-10 05:36:55 <ArtForz> just don't go to youtube :P
 645 2011-02-10 05:37:00 <andrew12> ;;pong
 646 2011-02-10 05:37:00 <gribble> ping
 647 2011-02-10 05:37:02 <andrew12> heh
 648 2011-02-10 05:37:57 <andrew12> ;;bc,lbs
 649 2011-02-10 05:37:58 <gribble> Error: "curblockstats" is not a valid command.
 650 2011-02-10 05:38:03 <andrew12> ;;bc,labs
 651 2011-02-10 05:38:06 <gribble> Block number: 107204 | Time since previous block: 33 minutes and 38 seconds | Transaction count: 14.000 | Block size: 3648 bytes | Average transaction size: 255 bytes
 652 2011-02-10 05:38:33 <andrew12> ;;hug nanotube
 653 2011-02-10 05:38:33 * gribble hugs nanotube
 654 2011-02-10 05:38:55 <RagnarDan> In the morning, noagendamarket
 655 2011-02-10 05:39:24 <andrew12> why do some markets close?
 656 2011-02-10 05:39:34 <nanotube> andrew12: only bitcoinmarket.com closes
 657 2011-02-10 05:39:42 <nanotube> as to why... he thought it would be a good idea at the time
 658 2011-02-10 05:39:51 <andrew12> heh
 659 2011-02-10 05:41:22 <noagendamarket> hey in the morning Ragnar
 660 2011-02-10 05:42:32 donpdonp has joined
 661 2011-02-10 05:45:06 <Ralith> aaand all set up and running on mining.bitcoin.cz
 662 2011-02-10 05:45:07 <Ralith> awesome.
 663 2011-02-10 05:45:20 <Ralith> thanks for the help, all!
 664 2011-02-10 05:45:26 <Ralith> andrew12: totally sending something your way once I have any ^^
 665 2011-02-10 05:46:19 <nanotube> Ralith: great to hear. enjoy :)
 666 2011-02-10 05:47:16 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 667 2011-02-10 05:48:50 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,labs
 668 2011-02-10 05:48:54 <gribble> Block number: 107205 | Time since previous block: 12 minutes and 24 seconds | Transaction count: 5.000 | Block size: 1212 bytes | Average transaction size: 226 bytes
 669 2011-02-10 05:50:34 <midnightmagic_> ;;hug you.
 670 2011-02-10 05:50:34 * gribble hugs you.
 671 2011-02-10 05:51:36 <Mango-chan> ;;bc nig
 672 2011-02-10 05:51:36 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
 673 2011-02-10 05:53:42 <andrew12> ;;calc 1.07/1.0r
 674 2011-02-10 05:53:42 <gribble> ...
 675 2011-02-10 05:54:24 RagnarDan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 676 2011-02-10 05:54:26 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 677 2011-02-10 05:54:42 <andrew12> ;;calc (1.07/1.04)(1-0.0065)(1-0.0065
 678 2011-02-10 05:54:43 <gribble> (1.07 / 1.04) * (1 - 0.0065) * (1 - 0.0065) = 1.01551462
 679 2011-02-10 05:55:02 <andrew12> ;;calc (1.08/1.04)(1-0.0065)(1-0.0065)
 680 2011-02-10 05:55:02 <gribble> (1.08 / 1.04) * (1 - 0.0065) * (1 - 0.0065) = 1.02500541
 681 2011-02-10 05:55:13 <andrew12> ;;calc (1.08/1.02)(1-0.0065)(1-0.0065)
 682 2011-02-10 05:55:14 <gribble> (1.08 / 1.02) * (1 - 0.0065) * (1 - 0.0065) = 1.04510356
 683 2011-02-10 05:55:18 <andrew12> hm
 684 2011-02-10 06:01:55 alystair has joined
 685 2011-02-10 06:04:02 prax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 686 2011-02-10 06:04:48 Kiba` has joined
 687 2011-02-10 06:06:26 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 688 2011-02-10 06:08:39 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
 689 2011-02-10 06:08:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107209 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1654 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 31951.83502209
 690 2011-02-10 06:09:12 molecular has joined
 691 2011-02-10 06:10:58 <jgarzik> the bitcoin debug.log needs a timestamp prepended to each line
 692 2011-02-10 06:11:12 <nanotube> yea good idea jgarzik
 693 2011-02-10 06:12:30 <Ralith> anyone have any advice on tweaking rpcminer config?
 694 2011-02-10 06:13:15 s1id3r0 has joined
 695 2011-02-10 06:13:21 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 696 2011-02-10 06:14:42 s1id3r0 has quit (Client Quit)
 697 2011-02-10 06:16:17 prax has joined
 698 2011-02-10 06:16:24 wee493 has joined
 699 2011-02-10 06:16:36 <wee493> Hey
 700 2011-02-10 06:17:30 <prax> yo
 701 2011-02-10 06:19:55 <wee493> How many blocks will have to be downloaded before I'm "caught up"? I'm currently on 30,000
 702 2011-02-10 06:20:14 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
 703 2011-02-10 06:20:15 <gribble> 107211
 704 2011-02-10 06:20:35 <wee493> ah, k thanks
 705 2011-02-10 06:21:09 <wee493> I just heard about this is twit (a technology web show). They are talking about it now (pre-recorded) http://live.twit.tv/
 706 2011-02-10 06:30:01 <prax> yeah we watched today expecting the influx
 707 2011-02-10 06:32:17 cosurgi has joined
 708 2011-02-10 06:35:12 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 709 2011-02-10 06:37:11 Kiba` is now known as kiba
 710 2011-02-10 06:37:49 wee493 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 711 2011-02-10 06:39:15 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
 712 2011-02-10 06:39:20 <lfm> volume is way up too, very encouraging
 713 2011-02-10 06:39:29 skeledrew has joined
 714 2011-02-10 06:39:44 * kiba celebrate his growing wealth
 715 2011-02-10 06:42:06 <prax> ;;bc,mtgox
 716 2011-02-10 06:42:06 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.82,"vol":50888,"buy":1.042,"sell":1.0899,"last":1.0418}}
 717 2011-02-10 06:42:19 <prax> selloff
 718 2011-02-10 06:44:51 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 719 2011-02-10 06:45:17 <midnightmagic_> anyone want some testnet coins from the "old" testnet?
 720 2011-02-10 06:45:58 <da2ce7> kiba are you rich yet?
 721 2011-02-10 06:46:59 <kiba> da2ce7: mine is only worth 700 dollars
 722 2011-02-10 06:47:01 <kiba> a small saving
 723 2011-02-10 06:47:12 <Mango-chan> kiba what's your rate of income
 724 2011-02-10 06:47:20 <midnightmagic_> i have 104000 and I'm pondering switching to the new genesis block, but it would be a shame to let all those coins just disappear.
 725 2011-02-10 06:47:22 <jgarzik> slush: does your server support HTTP/1.1 persistent connections?
 726 2011-02-10 06:47:30 <kiba> Mango-chan: hmm..5 BTC a week
 727 2011-02-10 06:47:36 <Mango-chan> seriosuly?
 728 2011-02-10 06:48:09 <kiba> Mango-chan: my income is variable :/
 729 2011-02-10 06:48:17 <kiba> I earned 3 BTC this week from my magazine work
 730 2011-02-10 06:48:23 <Mango-chan> don't you mine?
 731 2011-02-10 06:48:38 <kiba> Mango-chan: no. Mining isn't profitable
 732 2011-02-10 06:48:45 <Mango-chan> it isn't?
 733 2011-02-10 06:48:47 <Mango-chan> how so?
 734 2011-02-10 06:48:52 <midnightmagic_> it's not profitable for a lot of people.
 735 2011-02-10 06:49:00 <Mango-chan> oh
 736 2011-02-10 06:49:14 <kiba> it's only for GPU farms
 737 2011-02-10 06:49:16 <Mango-chan> someone should probably figure out a graph
 738 2011-02-10 06:49:27 <midnightmagic_> what kind of graph are you interested in?
 739 2011-02-10 06:49:42 <Mango-chan> mining profitability
 740 2011-02-10 06:49:53 <Mango-chan> that depends on the exchange rate
 741 2011-02-10 06:50:01 <kiba> electricity cost
 742 2011-02-10 06:50:03 <kiba> hashing speed
 743 2011-02-10 06:50:14 <Mango-chan> well
 744 2011-02-10 06:50:15 <kiba> capital investment
 745 2011-02-10 06:50:15 <midnightmagic_> that would be a tough one. you'd have to guess at card costs but they're pretty variable. how do you know whether someone got a card on sale or not?
 746 2011-02-10 06:50:24 <Mango-chan> no i mean
 747 2011-02-10 06:50:27 <Mango-chan> assuming you already got a card
 748 2011-02-10 06:50:35 <midnightmagic_> electricity is $0.065 here; but I've heard some people say it's upwards of $0.80 for them.
 749 2011-02-10 06:50:46 <Mango-chan> i'm sure there are averages
 750 2011-02-10 06:50:49 <Mango-chan> for the entire us
 751 2011-02-10 06:51:03 <kiba> averages are not useful for individual miners
 752 2011-02-10 06:51:18 <Mango-chan> or
 753 2011-02-10 06:51:26 <Mango-chan> input your own electricity bill
 754 2011-02-10 06:51:50 <Mango-chan> generate a graph based on current rates or something -3-
 755 2011-02-10 06:52:19 <Mango-chan> at current rates
 756 2011-02-10 06:52:32 <Mango-chan> what card would produce a break-even rate
 757 2011-02-10 06:52:39 <Mango-chan> mine for a month
 758 2011-02-10 06:52:48 <Mango-chan> given the average cost of electricity
 759 2011-02-10 06:53:17 * kiba ponders about being a normad
 760 2011-02-10 06:53:38 <da2ce7> how did you get a majority of your BTC kiba?
 761 2011-02-10 06:53:57 <da2ce7> *largest proportion
 762 2011-02-10 06:56:57 <prax> damn I have a lot of fonts
 763 2011-02-10 06:57:11 <prax> probably not all fonts but going through my backup and lists almost 15,000 files
 764 2011-02-10 06:58:26 molecular has joined
 765 2011-02-10 07:02:06 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 766 2011-02-10 07:02:28 <prax> 12.766 damn
 767 2011-02-10 07:02:39 <prax> if anyone ever needs a font ask me =)
 768 2011-02-10 07:05:09 <Mango-chan> http://i56.tinypic.com/2mdkw9e.jpg
 769 2011-02-10 07:05:10 <Mango-chan> guys
 770 2011-02-10 07:05:12 <Mango-chan> i'm so popular
 771 2011-02-10 07:06:32 <prax> thanks, I love penis pics
 772 2011-02-10 07:12:54 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
 773 2011-02-10 07:13:05 bk128 has joined
 774 2011-02-10 07:13:28 dukeleto has joined
 775 2011-02-10 07:14:41 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calcd 20000000, 40000
 776 2011-02-10 07:14:41 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
 777 2011-02-10 07:15:03 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 20000000
 778 2011-02-10 07:15:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 20000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 hour, 33 minutes, and 3 seconds
 779 2011-02-10 07:18:01 Mango-chan has joined
 780 2011-02-10 07:29:04 da2ce7 has quit ()
 781 2011-02-10 07:29:56 <midnightmagic_> ;;bc,calcd 20000000 40000
 782 2011-02-10 07:29:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 20000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 40000, is 2 hours, 23 minutes, and 9 seconds
 783 2011-02-10 07:31:33 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calcd 1000000 25000
 784 2011-02-10 07:31:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 25000, is 1 day, 5 hours, 49 minutes, and 34 seconds
 785 2011-02-10 07:31:51 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calcd 1000000 30000
 786 2011-02-10 07:31:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 30000, is 1 day, 11 hours, 47 minutes, and 29 seconds
 787 2011-02-10 07:31:59 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calcd 2000000 30000
 788 2011-02-10 07:31:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 30000, is 17 hours, 53 minutes, and 44 seconds
 789 2011-02-10 07:35:15 joe_1 has joined
 790 2011-02-10 07:37:23 <joe_1> parity party at cash cow casino ===> cashcow.no-ip.org
 791 2011-02-10 07:42:06 <midnightmagic_> 0x6763, you are awesome. whoever you are.
 792 2011-02-10 07:42:28 <prax> what'd he do?
 793 2011-02-10 07:42:57 <prax> speaking of awesome this book, Rework, is great
 794 2011-02-10 07:44:27 CyanDynamo1 has joined
 795 2011-02-10 07:45:08 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 796 2011-02-10 07:47:41 da2ce7 has joined
 797 2011-02-10 07:47:42 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
 798 2011-02-10 07:47:42 da2ce7 has joined
 799 2011-02-10 07:48:00 <midnightmagic_> he answered some questions very well on hacker news.
 800 2011-02-10 07:48:16 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 801 2011-02-10 07:55:15 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 802 2011-02-10 07:55:45 dissipate has joined
 803 2011-02-10 07:57:25 <necrodearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3284.msg46235#msg46235
 804 2011-02-10 07:57:33 <necrodearia> Steve Gibson talking about Bitcoin
 805 2011-02-10 07:57:49 <necrodearia> Ah, it's been mentioned already
 806 2011-02-10 07:58:05 <prax> i guess the replay is up now?
 807 2011-02-10 07:58:13 <prax> watched it live but missed parts
 808 2011-02-10 07:58:27 <prax> seen some new people coming in today
 809 2011-02-10 07:58:47 <dissipate> forget that, we need bitcoin ads on MTV and during American Idol
 810 2011-02-10 07:59:05 <prax> we need more biz accepting btc
 811 2011-02-10 07:59:14 <prax> u should help me code my website =.=
 812 2011-02-10 07:59:37 <dissipate> me?
 813 2011-02-10 07:59:45 <prax> oh u dont do that?
 814 2011-02-10 07:59:54 <prax> that was a collective you then
 815 2011-02-10 07:59:58 <prax> i get confused
 816 2011-02-10 07:59:58 <dissipate> depends
 817 2011-02-10 08:00:06 <dissipate> what framework are you using?
 818 2011-02-10 08:00:17 <prax> didnt really decide yet umm
 819 2011-02-10 08:00:23 <prax> framework as in what?
 820 2011-02-10 08:00:53 <dissipate> something that has a controller viewer model stack of some sort i hope
 821 2011-02-10 08:01:07 <noagendamarket> Im putting it up on youtube.
 822 2011-02-10 08:01:08 <prax> lol i dont even know what that means
 823 2011-02-10 08:01:38 <dissipate> prax, 'doh
 824 2011-02-10 08:01:43 <alystair> :S
 825 2011-02-10 08:01:47 <alystair> how much is BC worth now
 826 2011-02-10 08:02:08 <Mango-chan> lol
 827 2011-02-10 08:02:15 <Mango-chan> [23:50:58] <necrodearia> Steve Gibson talking about Bitcoin
 828 2011-02-10 08:02:18 <Mango-chan> he's a professor at my college
 829 2011-02-10 08:02:26 <Mango-chan> or well
 830 2011-02-10 08:02:27 <Mango-chan> no
 831 2011-02-10 08:02:32 <Mango-chan> he studied at my school or something
 832 2011-02-10 08:02:33 <prax> php probably? is that what u want?
 833 2011-02-10 08:02:34 <alystair> maybe I should start offering service for BC
 834 2011-02-10 08:02:37 <AAA_awright> $1.10
 835 2011-02-10 08:02:47 <alystair> $1.10? :O
 836 2011-02-10 08:02:47 <AAA_awright> $1.10/BTC is the going exchange rate
 837 2011-02-10 08:02:56 <alystair> wtf.
 838 2011-02-10 08:03:20 <Mango-chan> no it's not
 839 2011-02-10 08:03:21 <dissipate> prax, could be. but php is a language, not a framework.
 840 2011-02-10 08:03:24 <alystair> I'm away for 6 months and BC hits and goes OVER pariety?
 841 2011-02-10 08:03:28 <dissipate> prax, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model%E2%80%93View%E2%80%93Controller
 842 2011-02-10 08:03:53 <alystair> frameworks are for wimps and people who need code that is developed by more than 5 people :p
 843 2011-02-10 08:04:10 <alystair> so it's easy to make sense of it
 844 2011-02-10 08:04:18 * alystair likes skeletons a lot more
 845 2011-02-10 08:05:06 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
 846 2011-02-10 08:05:07 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.82,"vol":50980,"buy":1.0423,"sell":1.0899,"last":1.09}}
 847 2011-02-10 08:05:15 <dissipate> alystair, skeletons??
 848 2011-02-10 08:05:44 <alystair> what's the current generation rate
 849 2011-02-10 08:05:49 <alystair> global generation rate?
 850 2011-02-10 08:06:08 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 851 2011-02-10 08:06:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107224 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1639 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 10 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32041.70186733
 852 2011-02-10 08:06:34 <alystair> I mean in khashes
 853 2011-02-10 08:06:35 <alystair> globally
 854 2011-02-10 08:06:41 <alystair> is there a way to calculate that?
 855 2011-02-10 08:06:52 <prax> idk diss, I'm trying to just not suck at html/css/javascript for the moment
 856 2011-02-10 08:07:09 <prax> my hosts has stuff like pear/ruby/php
 857 2011-02-10 08:07:13 <lfm> alystair: use the difficulty, multiply by 2^32
 858 2011-02-10 08:07:19 <dissipate> prax, ugh, javascript sucks. :(
 859 2011-02-10 08:07:31 <prax> eh, seems like it does some cool stuff
 860 2011-02-10 08:07:39 <prax> what then?
 861 2011-02-10 08:07:52 <dissipate> prax, try Pyjamas. www.pyjs.org
 862 2011-02-10 08:08:06 <prax> hrm
 863 2011-02-10 08:08:15 akem_ has joined
 864 2011-02-10 08:08:59 <dissipate> it has tons of widgets pre-built for you. and it's basically like developing a desktop application. cross browser compliance is automatic and you have the power of python with separate classes and modules.
 865 2011-02-10 08:09:24 <prax> it isnt going to be like an extra language to learn?
 866 2011-02-10 08:10:24 <alystair> lfm: for mhashes? o.O
 867 2011-02-10 08:10:37 <prax> looks interesting
 868 2011-02-10 08:10:46 <dissipate> prax, you use python which is an easy to learn language that is also very powerful.
 869 2011-02-10 08:10:49 <prax> i keep looking at new ways to do it and get nothing done though heh
 870 2011-02-10 08:11:17 <dissipate> prax, check out the examples: http://pyjs.org/examples/
 871 2011-02-10 08:11:20 <alystair> maybe you should learn D then :D
 872 2011-02-10 08:11:29 <prax> D?
 873 2011-02-10 08:11:34 <alystair> yes, it comes after C
 874 2011-02-10 08:11:37 <prax> D:
 875 2011-02-10 08:11:47 <dissipate> for web development??
 876 2011-02-10 08:11:50 <dissipate> lmao
 877 2011-02-10 08:12:00 <alystair> oh no
 878 2011-02-10 08:12:01 <alystair> no no no :D
 879 2011-02-10 08:12:10 <alystair> node.js :D
 880 2011-02-10 08:12:19 <alystair> two birds with one stone
 881 2011-02-10 08:12:30 <alystair> learn both front/back webdev
 882 2011-02-10 08:12:31 <dissipate> prax, here is a free book on python: http://diveintopython.org/
 883 2011-02-10 08:12:51 <dissipate> i suggest you read a few chapters of that, then check out the code of the examples for pyjamas i linked you to above
 884 2011-02-10 08:13:03 <dissipate> then start playing around. :D
 885 2011-02-10 08:13:25 <prax> hmm so this is instead of javascript
 886 2011-02-10 08:13:32 <prax> but I still need html/css
 887 2011-02-10 08:13:59 <dissipate> prax, yes, but not really because what pyjamas does is it compiles your python code into cross browser compliant javascript.
 888 2011-02-10 08:14:27 <prax> right ok
 889 2011-02-10 08:14:45 <lfm> alystair: um diff * 2^32 / 600 perhaps
 890 2011-02-10 08:14:45 <prax> somehow stuff like ruby/python just seems unapproachable
 891 2011-02-10 08:14:49 <dissipate> prax, actually, with pyjamas you don't need as much html or css. the api has a lot of functions that take care of that stuff for you.
 892 2011-02-10 08:14:52 <prax> I'll check it out though
 893 2011-02-10 08:15:09 <dissipate> prax, really? python is a very easy language to jump into.
 894 2011-02-10 08:15:28 <prax> no I have an open mind, just saying how I perceived it
 895 2011-02-10 08:15:34 <dissipate> the syntax is clear and concise.
 896 2011-02-10 08:16:03 <dissipate> very few 'tricks' (until you start getting into more advanced stuff).
 897 2011-02-10 08:16:24 <alystair> I don't get how people are willing to deal with this having value
 898 2011-02-10 08:16:35 <alystair> it's still experimental :S
 899 2011-02-10 08:16:42 <alystair> also there are people with 20k+ BC
 900 2011-02-10 08:16:50 <dissipate> prax, then, if you are looking for a web framework there is web2py: www.web2py.com
 901 2011-02-10 08:17:07 <dissipate> pyjamas and web2py work well together
 902 2011-02-10 08:17:14 <alystair> it gives early adoptors a huuuuge bonus :S
 903 2011-02-10 08:17:25 <dissipate> alystair, what do you mean?
 904 2011-02-10 08:17:35 <alystair> if they were to sell their BC
 905 2011-02-10 08:17:43 <dissipate> what do you mean by 'deal with this having value'?
 906 2011-02-10 08:18:07 <prax> latecomer ethic
 907 2011-02-10 08:18:17 <prax> wish i got some btc when i first heard about bitcoin too
 908 2011-02-10 08:18:31 <alystair> well, it's still experimental yet people treat it like real money :S
 909 2011-02-10 08:18:44 <prax> whats wrong with it being labeled experimental?
 910 2011-02-10 08:18:49 <alystair> nothing
 911 2011-02-10 08:18:53 <prax> the mechanics of it seem pretty solid to me
 912 2011-02-10 08:19:02 <dissipate> alystair, call it what you want. it seems to be working, and quite well at that. :O
 913 2011-02-10 08:19:03 <alystair> just confused with the way BC has gone on till now
 914 2011-02-10 08:19:21 <prax> there could be competing cryptocurrencies
 915 2011-02-10 08:20:01 * alystair will create the bitpound :p
 916 2011-02-10 08:20:09 <dissipate> i have been looking into digital currencies on and off for almost a decade. bitcoin is the best designed one i have seen by far.
 917 2011-02-10 08:20:11 <prax> actually that is kind of interesting
 918 2011-02-10 08:20:20 <alystair> which will always be at least double the value of bc ;)
 919 2011-02-10 08:20:32 <prax> what about a bitcoin-esque deal that would somehow ease transitions from the various central banking notes
 920 2011-02-10 08:20:33 <alystair> because of its superior british heritage ohoho
 921 2011-02-10 08:20:36 <alystair> (jk)
 922 2011-02-10 08:20:41 <prax> lol
 923 2011-02-10 08:20:56 <prax> bitsterling
 924 2011-02-10 08:21:06 <alystair> that sounds awesome
 925 2011-02-10 08:21:16 <alystair> 'I couldn't give one bityen'
 926 2011-02-10 08:21:23 <prax> bitpeso
 927 2011-02-10 08:21:30 <prax> bitshekel
 928 2011-02-10 08:21:30 <dissipate> prax, if bitcoin takes off big time there will be competition, but the problem is that currencies are some of the most conservative 'products' around. the popular one wins the day and shuts everyone else out.
 929 2011-02-10 08:21:35 <alystair> bitshekel
 930 2011-02-10 08:22:06 <alystair> I think
 931 2011-02-10 08:22:10 <dissipate> once a currency beats out the competition, it's an incredible task to unseat it
 932 2011-02-10 08:22:15 <prax> yeah I know diss... just an idea
 933 2011-02-10 08:22:26 <prax> Greshams law right
 934 2011-02-10 08:22:37 <alystair> what BC needs is an injection of users and better websites to aid transitioning between paper and these new digital currencies
 935 2011-02-10 08:22:52 <joe_1> how can we inject users
 936 2011-02-10 08:22:54 <dissipate> prax, more like regression theorem
 937 2011-02-10 08:23:19 <alystair> get BC involved with that project... uh
 938 2011-02-10 08:23:19 <prax> help me code my website for my store ! =)
 939 2011-02-10 08:23:27 <alystair> the Zeitguist folk :p
 940 2011-02-10 08:23:29 <prax> er it is more than a store though
 941 2011-02-10 08:23:36 <dissipate> alystair, BTC 'trading depots' for in-person OTC trades in major cities would help big time, IMO
 942 2011-02-10 08:23:41 <prax> should reach tens of thousands of interested folks
 943 2011-02-10 08:23:54 <dissipate> prax, who me?
 944 2011-02-10 08:24:03 <prax> nah just begging for help
 945 2011-02-10 08:24:16 <alystair> dissipate: those places would require BC 'on hand' tho'
 946 2011-02-10 08:24:18 <prax> I'm going to pay some people who are more skillful eventually if needed
 947 2011-02-10 08:24:21 <alystair> so you need 'starting capital'
 948 2011-02-10 08:24:36 <alystair> and the only way to do that is to generate them yourself or buy  them from someone else
 949 2011-02-10 08:24:51 <dissipate> prax, what are you trying to build exactly?
 950 2011-02-10 08:25:08 <prax> dont feel like typing it all
 951 2011-02-10 08:25:16 <dissipate> alystair, of course they would need starting capital. they would buy some initial pool of bitcoins.
 952 2011-02-10 08:25:17 <prax> store/niche resource
 953 2011-02-10 08:25:30 <prax> ecigs
 954 2011-02-10 08:25:39 <alystair> niche like limited edition pokemon? :P
 955 2011-02-10 08:25:47 <dissipate> prax, you could do it in pyjamas and web2py
 956 2011-02-10 08:25:49 <prax> but there is some tricks to it i wont get into now
 957 2011-02-10 08:25:53 <slush> jgarzik: yes, "Connection: keep alive" is possible. It would be great if miners use it
 958 2011-02-10 08:26:02 <prax> yea I should get back to work ^_^
 959 2011-02-10 08:26:05 <prax> errr or sleep
 960 2011-02-10 08:26:20 <prax> reading this book called Rework it's great
 961 2011-02-10 08:26:28 <jgarzik> slush: cpuminer's latest git commit enables persistent HTTP/1.1 connections
 962 2011-02-10 08:26:49 <lfm> Server not found
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 964 2011-02-10 08:26:56 <slush> jgarzik: great!
 965 2011-02-10 08:27:09 <joe_1> prax where is the book and wahts it about
 966 2011-02-10 08:27:14 <lfm> Firefox can't find the server at www.pyjs.org.
 967 2011-02-10 08:27:15 <lfm> oops sorry bout the blank linbes
 968 2011-02-10 08:27:30 <joe_1> dont worry about it we're all drunk too
 969 2011-02-10 08:27:33 <prax> its a for pay book
 970 2011-02-10 08:27:35 CyanDynamo has joined
 971 2011-02-10 08:27:47 <prax> um the pdf didnt convert well so I had to download a .mobi reader
 972 2011-02-10 08:27:51 <prax> but it was worth it
 973 2011-02-10 08:28:01 <lfm> alystair: um diff * 2^32 / 600 perhaps   hash/sec
 974 2011-02-10 08:28:02 <prax> entrepreneurship type thing
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 977 2011-02-10 08:30:27 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
 978 2011-02-10 08:30:27 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.82,"vol":51076,"buy":1.0419,"sell":1.09,"last":1.0899}}
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 984 2011-02-10 08:43:34 <oink_> ji
 985 2011-02-10 08:43:40 <oink_> hi*
 986 2011-02-10 08:44:28 TheAncientGoat has joined
 987 2011-02-10 08:47:39 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,mtgox
 988 2011-02-10 08:47:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.82,"vol":51101,"buy":1.0421,"sell":1.0898,"last":1.0418}}
 989 2011-02-10 08:49:05 <lfm> so all we need now is for Steven Colbert to do a bit about bitcoin
 990 2011-02-10 08:49:21 <noagendamarket> or oprah
 991 2011-02-10 08:49:22 <noagendamarket> :)
 992 2011-02-10 08:49:57 <Mango-chan> "bitpoin protects child abuse!"
 993 2011-02-10 08:49:59 <Mango-chan> instant oprah
 994 2011-02-10 08:50:16 <lfm> not sure if Opra's audience is as tech savy as Steven's
 995 2011-02-10 08:51:08 <dissipate> wow, a whole lot of ignorance in that ycombinator thread
 996 2011-02-10 08:51:19 <dissipate> and i thought they were supposed to be smart hackers
 997 2011-02-10 08:52:02 <Mango-chan> lambda calculus?
 998 2011-02-10 08:53:05 <dissipate> oops, wrong room
 999 2011-02-10 08:53:06 <lfm> as they say a lot of "hackers" are really just script kiddies
1000 2011-02-10 08:53:28 <dissipate> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2200705
1001 2011-02-10 08:54:56 <Mango-chan> 1 point by vinyl 3 hours ago | link
1002 2011-02-10 08:54:56 <Mango-chan> "No central authority" ? Well, I think the guys who decide there will only be 21 million bitcoins can be considered a central authority. Currency, in any form, is deemed to have a central authority -- national currencies, for example, have real-life value because states limit the available quantity. In this case, the Bitcoins people are acting as the central bank. Especially when I see
1003 2011-02-10 08:54:56 <Mango-chan> that the total produced bitcoins will be halved each year by decision.
1004 2011-02-10 08:54:57 <Mango-chan> lol
1005 2011-02-10 08:56:44 <oink_> hehehe its every 4 years  its halved doh lol
1006 2011-02-10 08:56:59 <lfm> well it is true Satoshi made some decisions while he was designing bitcoin
1007 2011-02-10 08:57:14 <Mango-chan> 1 point by 0x6763 2 hours ago | link
1008 2011-02-10 08:57:14 <Mango-chan> Someone proposed 21 million coins, and others, by voluntarily choosing to run the software, agreed to the 21 million coin limit. That's not a central authority...just an agreement between individuals.
1009 2011-02-10 08:57:14 <Mango-chan> In all of your statements you're conflating a protocol, and voluntary social agreement, with a central authority.
1010 2011-02-10 08:57:14 <Mango-chan> Anyone is free to fork the software and change the rules to create their own protocol for people to use! If they like the rules, they join...if they don't like the rules, they don't join. Freedom.
1011 2011-02-10 08:57:14 <Mango-chan> reply
1012 2011-02-10 08:57:45 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
1013 2011-02-10 08:57:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.82,"vol":51101,"buy":1.0432,"sell":1.0896,"last":1.0418}}
1014 2011-02-10 08:58:22 <dissipate> Mango-chan, actually, if even a handful of people ran modded clients, they could build on their own block chain in parallel.
1015 2011-02-10 08:58:43 <dissipate> they could set their own difficulty etc.
1016 2011-02-10 08:58:46 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1017 2011-02-10 08:58:48 <lfm> the point they miss is it isnt really that important that the number is 21 million, the important point is that there is a limit
1018 2011-02-10 09:00:15 <lfm> it could be a different number without changeing bitcoin significantly
1019 2011-02-10 09:00:41 <dissipate> lfm, reminds me of the argument people make about there not being enough gold to back the entire economy. they forget that the value of a currency rises to the demand over time.
1020 2011-02-10 09:01:13 <prax> we do need more decimals though
1021 2011-02-10 09:01:22 <prax> what is going to change in 0.20?
1022 2011-02-10 09:02:21 <lfm> or people who claim bitcoin isnt REAL cuz it is virtual or cuz it isnt backed by anything they can recognize or anyone. then I just point em at mtgox.com and ask them to explain it
1023 2011-02-10 09:02:22 <dissipate> i don't understand why they don't use arbitrary precision and just limit it to whatever is needed at any given time.
1024 2011-02-10 09:03:33 <lfm> dissipate: I suspect the two digit limitation will not really last too long. that isnt hard to change without changing anything essential
1025 2011-02-10 09:04:20 <dissipate> lfm, you have GMP (gnu bignum library), and as far as i know JSON allows arbitrary precision. what else do you need?
1026 2011-02-10 09:04:25 <lfm> seriously tho even the real penny is in danger of being discontinued
1027 2011-02-10 09:04:49 <prax> diss one more dumb question before I look at the web2py thing
1028 2011-02-10 09:05:04 <prax> I can do stuff like this?
1029 2011-02-10 09:05:06 <prax> http://isotope.metafizzy.co/index.html
1030 2011-02-10 09:05:40 <lfm> dissipate: the json rcp lib is not the central limit, that is an addon. the central bitcoin chain of blocks is hard coded for the microcents limit
1031 2011-02-10 09:06:56 <prax> you mean the .00000001 limit or whatever?
1032 2011-02-10 09:07:03 <lfm> ya
1033 2011-02-10 09:07:04 <prax> part of the bit limitation right
1034 2011-02-10 09:08:02 <dissipate> lfm, why can't that use GMP??
1035 2011-02-10 09:08:51 <lfm> well they could and they do use some stuff equivalent for the 256 bit tagret comparisons
1036 2011-02-10 09:09:21 <dissipate> prax, actually, i am not sure, i have not done animations in pyjamas. i know it has Canvas which does have some animation capability though.
1037 2011-02-10 09:09:37 <lfm> but the basic block chain now stored on every node and every transaction is coded with the microcents limit and it would be pretty hard to change now
1038 2011-02-10 09:09:46 <prax> hmm like HTML5 canvas I guess you mean
1039 2011-02-10 09:09:57 <prax> should be fine, I just dont get it yet
1040 2011-02-10 09:09:58 <dissipate> lfm, seems like a bad initial decision. they should move everything to use GMP.
1041 2011-02-10 09:10:02 <prax> gonna go to bed soon
1042 2011-02-10 09:10:20 <dissipate> prax, yeah, it is HTML 5. they have examples of it on that examples page i linked you to.
1043 2011-02-10 09:10:30 <prax> k just didnt look at those
1044 2011-02-10 09:10:39 <prax> there is some thread about what you are talking about
1045 2011-02-10 09:11:00 <dissipate> prax, did you look at the mailing list?
1046 2011-02-10 09:11:08 <prax> for what?
1047 2011-02-10 09:11:12 <lfm> dissipate well when the microcents prove to actually be a problem then it might be worth considering some sort of change and how it might be done
1048 2011-02-10 09:11:26 <dissipate> prax, pyjamas
1049 2011-02-10 09:11:29 <prax> oh not yet
1050 2011-02-10 09:11:41 <dissipate> lfm, should have been done from the get go. :O
1051 2011-02-10 09:12:16 <dissipate> prax, do a search there and also send an email to it. the community there is quite responsive.
1052 2011-02-10 09:12:17 <lfm> dissipate: that sort of thing is not free you know. it cost speed and storage
1053 2011-02-10 09:13:01 <dissipate> lfm, nothing is free, but the benefits outweigh the cost IMO.
1054 2011-02-10 09:13:15 <lfm> dissipate: what benifit?
1055 2011-02-10 09:13:32 <midnightmagic_> incredible. buyers have chewed through everything but the blocker at $1.1
1056 2011-02-10 09:13:41 <lfm> dissipate: what is worth less than 1 milklionth of one cent
1057 2011-02-10 09:14:03 <dissipate> lfm, never having to worry about the smallest unit of bit coin being too valuable.
1058 2011-02-10 09:14:20 <lfm> im not worried
1059 2011-02-10 09:14:53 <dissipate> lfm, they probably weren't worried when they invented IPV4 either.
1060 2011-02-10 09:15:12 <midnightmagic_> wouldn't that be interesting..  long-term wallet-holders end up with megadollars because the supply dwindled. people would be spelunking grandpa's old backups for wallets to loot.
1061 2011-02-10 09:15:15 <lfm> dissipate: it was goon for 50 years, thats not bad
1062 2011-02-10 09:15:20 <lfm> good
1063 2011-02-10 09:15:40 <dissipate> lfm, but now a significant cost must be shouldered to replace it
1064 2011-02-10 09:16:11 <midnightmagic_> versus the significant cost in bandwidth to have ipv6 from the start?
1065 2011-02-10 09:16:39 <lfm> dissipate: and what would it have cost to use addresses 4 times as big back then? remeber the speeds and stuff then it would have been a significant overhead of wasted bits
1066 2011-02-10 09:16:48 <midnightmagic_> i suspect the cost now to replace routers is less than the cost of using the additional address sizes then.
1067 2011-02-10 09:17:15 <lfm> Id like to see you prove it
1068 2011-02-10 09:17:23 <lfm> it mute now anyway
1069 2011-02-10 09:17:29 <dissipate> prove what?
1070 2011-02-10 09:17:47 <lfm> midnightmagic prove it would be cheaper
1071 2011-02-10 09:18:55 <midnightmagic_> we could probably estimate it.. all traffic ever transmitted, ever, on internet and intranet, multiplied by the fraction of additional space, multiplied by the average cost of traffic..
1072 2011-02-10 09:19:00 <lfm> shouldnt have to replace routers anyway, it should be a software change
1073 2011-02-10 09:19:16 <midnightmagic_> versus cost of router replacement now..?
1074 2011-02-10 09:19:31 <midnightmagic_> total number of routers multiplied by some average fixed cost for upgrade/replacement.
1075 2011-02-10 09:19:57 <lfm> and why didnt the routers start supporting ipv6 when it was obvious they would have to? why are they so slow?
1076 2011-02-10 09:20:41 <midnightmagic_> additional fraction of data should probably include the small additional fraction of time required to transmit it, multiplied by some fixed per-hour cost of everyone who would have had to wait fractionally longer for it.
1077 2011-02-10 09:21:28 <lfm> you shouldnt be replacing routers, just turning on ipv6 support in your current router
1078 2011-02-10 09:21:39 <midnightmagic_> well that would be the ideal..
1079 2011-02-10 09:22:09 <lfm> makes a heck of a lot more sense to me than complaining that ipv4 was too small
1080 2011-02-10 09:24:14 <lfm> thas like complaining that the old 8 bit PCs were stupid to only have 8 or 16 bit words. the costs at the tiem were considered and the decision was made. you cant change the past like that
1081 2011-02-10 09:25:05 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1082 2011-02-10 09:25:24 <dissipate> lfm, how do we know the cost of using arbitrary precision for bitcoin is 'too high' right now?
1083 2011-02-10 09:26:37 <lfm> dissipate: well I have looked at the code and the data structures used and I have some experience programming and I say it wouldnt be easy nor quick. You are free to dissagree I guess
1084 2011-02-10 09:27:47 <dissipate> lfm, we shouldn't be looking for easy and quick. we should be looking for scalability.
1085 2011-02-10 09:28:04 <lfm> also it seems you estimate the value of the change way higher than I do
1086 2011-02-10 09:29:02 <dissipate> lfm, sorry to hear that. how might you change your mind?
1087 2011-02-10 09:29:38 <lfm> I might change my mind in 5 years if it is a problem then. I suspect I wont have to
1088 2011-02-10 09:30:15 <dissipate> 5 years??
1089 2011-02-10 09:30:24 <ArtForz> more like 50
1090 2011-02-10 09:30:28 <dissipate> setting the bar pretty low
1091 2011-02-10 09:30:58 <dissipate> in 50 years the bitcoin developers will be cursing today's bitcoin developers
1092 2011-02-10 09:31:24 <ArtForz> too bad for them
1093 2011-02-10 09:31:38 <dissipate> i guess it's like social security
1094 2011-02-10 09:32:01 <dissipate> no one cares that it's going to tank bad because supposedly it isn't going to happen for another 20 or 30 years.
1095 2011-02-10 09:32:20 <ArtForz> *tiny* difference
1096 2011-02-10 09:32:38 <frewsxcv> how is the average user online supposed to gain bitcoins besidesmining?
1097 2011-02-10 09:32:38 <dissipate> o rly?
1098 2011-02-10 09:32:40 <lfm> dissipate: I doubt it. the y2k programmers werent really complaining about the extra jobs if I remember right
1099 2011-02-10 09:33:05 <lfm> frewsxcv: they could BUY em
1100 2011-02-10 09:33:21 hundfred has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1101 2011-02-10 09:33:39 <dissipate> lfm, the 8 digit limit could bring the whole world economy down
1102 2011-02-10 09:33:42 <ArtForz> dissipate: ya rly!
1103 2011-02-10 09:33:48 <lfm> frewsxcv: or they could WORK for pay!
1104 2011-02-10 09:33:59 <frewsxcv> lfm: because there's so much work you can do online
1105 2011-02-10 09:34:11 <dissipate> lfm, bitcoin could be a trojan horse economic doomsday machine
1106 2011-02-10 09:34:13 <Ralith> frewsxcv: how is the average user irl supposed to gain dollars besides mining?
1107 2011-02-10 09:34:15 <lfm> dissipate: hehe like the penny has destroyed the US economy?
1108 2011-02-10 09:34:31 <ArtForz> dissipate: you could be a troll
1109 2011-02-10 09:34:33 <frewsxcv> Ralith: by working IRL. i don't know anyone who knows anyone about bitcoins
1110 2011-02-10 09:34:47 <Ralith> frewsxcv: well hang around here and make some friends!
1111 2011-02-10 09:35:01 <noagendamarket> http://witcoin.com
1112 2011-02-10 09:35:03 <dissipate> lfm, what if .00000001 BTC is worth $200,000? then what?
1113 2011-02-10 09:35:03 <lfm> frewsxcv: well they dont need bitcoins then
1114 2011-02-10 09:35:23 <frewsxcv> tbh, if that's how bitcoin works...making friends through irc to gain access to an exclusive currency, good luck making a realistic currency
1115 2011-02-10 09:35:24 <lfm> dissipate: then I will eat my hat
1116 2011-02-10 09:35:37 <ArtForz> dissipate: is it? will it be in the next years? no? then I don't give a flying rats ass
1117 2011-02-10 09:36:14 <Ralith> ArtForz: for large enough values of 'the next years...'
1118 2011-02-10 09:36:19 <dissipate> ArtForz, how is it different than social security? "oh it isn't going to go bust tomorrow, we won't fix it now..."
1119 2011-02-10 09:36:39 <lfm> frewsxcv: you can also get bitcoins for free from the faucet or you could just ask/beg for someone to give you some
1120 2011-02-10 09:37:26 <lfm> frewsxcv: its kinda like money, you know, you heard of that?
1121 2011-02-10 09:37:42 <ArtForz> dunno, how is debt different from a number format?
1122 2011-02-10 09:37:45 <frewsxcv> money is easy to get in IRL. bitcoins are much harder
1123 2011-02-10 09:37:52 <ArtForz> how is red different from a banana?
1124 2011-02-10 09:38:06 <Ralith> frewsxcv: I'm not sure why you seem to expect to get money for free.
1125 2011-02-10 09:38:07 <lfm> frewsxcv: well maybe that makes em MORE valuablle
1126 2011-02-10 09:38:10 <frewsxcv> ArtForz: that's a horrible example
1127 2011-02-10 09:38:20 <Ralith> frewsxcv: you can buy bitcoins quite easily.
1128 2011-02-10 09:38:32 <frewsxcv> Ralith: i never said free. there should be an *easier* way than mining
1129 2011-02-10 09:38:40 <Ralith> frewsxcv: yes, purchasing.
1130 2011-02-10 09:38:41 <dissipate> ArtForz, for real now. how long would it take to implement the GMP libraries into Bitcoin?
1131 2011-02-10 09:38:42 <echelon> easier than buying gold
1132 2011-02-10 09:38:49 <lfm> frewsxcv: check out mygox.com
1133 2011-02-10 09:38:56 <frewsxcv> Ralith: that is the only easy way
1134 2011-02-10 09:38:58 <lfm> frewsxcv: check out mtgox.com
1135 2011-02-10 09:39:06 <Ralith> frewsxcv: what else do you expect?
1136 2011-02-10 09:39:08 <frewsxcv> i'm not going to invest in a currency that i can do nothing with
1137 2011-02-10 09:39:11 <ArtForz> dissipate: that part isn't the problem
1138 2011-02-10 09:39:14 <Ralith> you can buy stuff.
1139 2011-02-10 09:39:18 <Ralith> you can sell stuff.
1140 2011-02-10 09:39:21 <frewsxcv> Ralith: buy where
1141 2011-02-10 09:39:27 <dissipate> ArtForz, so what's the problem?
1142 2011-02-10 09:39:30 <Ralith> do your own damn research, it's not exactly hard
1143 2011-02-10 09:39:50 <lfm> frewsxcv: that is your choice, if the alternative is you should get free money cuz you want it well too bad
1144 2011-02-10 09:40:10 <lfm> frewsxcv: check out mtgox.com
1145 2011-02-10 09:40:16 <ArtForz> dissipate: breaking transaction/block format
1146 2011-02-10 09:40:42 <frewsxcv> this is the only store i see http://www.bitcoingadgets.com/
1147 2011-02-10 09:40:42 <ArtForz> you'd have to convince pretty much everyone to switch to the new version before cutover block X
1148 2011-02-10 09:40:45 <dissipate> ArtForz, ahh, so that's a pretty big problem.
1149 2011-02-10 09:40:53 hundfred has joined
1150 2011-02-10 09:41:15 <dissipate> ArtForz, i say fix it now and be set for the future.
1151 2011-02-10 09:41:17 <ArtForz> which is kinda hard when there is no "near-term" need
1152 2011-02-10 09:41:20 <lfm> dissipate: note that ALL the nodes or at least a strong majority would need to change over to a new format
1153 2011-02-10 09:41:27 <ArtForz> yep
1154 2011-02-10 09:41:29 <echelon> fredix, http://bitcoin.org/trade
1155 2011-02-10 09:41:47 <Ralith> lfm: much easier to break the format now than when there's a millon users.
1156 2011-02-10 09:41:49 <Ralith> million
1157 2011-02-10 09:42:03 <frewsxcv> now if there was an ebay clone using bitoin, i'd use that
1158 2011-02-10 09:42:12 <echelon> there is..
1159 2011-02-10 09:42:12 <dissipate> lfm, seems like a pretty bad design flaw. :(
1160 2011-02-10 09:42:21 <frewsxcv> echelon: really?
1161 2011-02-10 09:42:25 <lfm> Ralith: well if the million users need it bad enuf they will have motivation that we dont have now
1162 2011-02-10 09:42:31 <ArtForz> yep
1163 2011-02-10 09:42:32 <Syke> There is a huge cost with changing things now too.
1164 2011-02-10 09:42:49 <ArtForz> changing right now is pretty much guaranteed to create 2 active chains
1165 2011-02-10 09:42:53 <echelon> frewsxcv, http://www.biddingpond.com/
1166 2011-02-10 09:42:57 <Ralith> lfm: you would rather a million people be desperate than a few thousand be inconvenienced?
1167 2011-02-10 09:43:12 <ArtForz> because most people won't see any need for the change, we still have 6 orders of magnitude of precision left...
1168 2011-02-10 09:43:28 <dissipate> ArtForz, best to swallow the pill now than to swallow it later
1169 2011-02-10 09:43:30 <ArtForz> Ralith: well, it's not like we didn't know about Y2K in 1990 ...
1170 2011-02-10 09:43:31 <lfm> Ralith: a hypothetical million users that in my opinion may never exist
1171 2011-02-10 09:43:44 <frewsxcv> echelon: is the 1998 web design a feature?
1172 2011-02-10 09:43:54 <frewsxcv> or do i have to pay extra for it
1173 2011-02-10 09:43:56 <Ralith> lfm: you don't think bitcoins will ever take off?
1174 2011-02-10 09:44:13 <Ralith> ArtForz: and do you think not planning ahead was the correct decision?
1175 2011-02-10 09:44:19 <ArtForz> yes
1176 2011-02-10 09:44:19 <echelon> i didn't design it
1177 2011-02-10 09:44:26 <lfm> Ralith: it could take off just fine without ever needing to trade 1 millionth of a penny
1178 2011-02-10 09:44:26 <frewsxcv> LMAO http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=256
1179 2011-02-10 09:44:27 <Ralith> ArtForz: why is that?
1180 2011-02-10 09:44:41 <ArtForz> human nature
1181 2011-02-10 09:44:41 <Ralith> lfm: it's obvious that the supply will inevitably decrease over time
1182 2011-02-10 09:44:47 <Ralith> ArtForz: that doesn't make it correct.
1183 2011-02-10 09:44:49 <frewsxcv> looks like a serious community selling plastic forks
1184 2011-02-10 09:44:51 slush1 has joined
1185 2011-02-10 09:45:07 <ArtForz> Ralith: yes, but it makes it the real world
1186 2011-02-10 09:45:17 <slush1> paypal sucks
1187 2011-02-10 09:45:25 <Ralith> ArtForz: that's a non-argument.
1188 2011-02-10 09:45:32 <Ralith> please TRY to be coherent.
1189 2011-02-10 09:45:39 <ArtForz> and in the real world, introducing incompatible changes for something that might or might not happen in a few decades won't find much acceptance
1190 2011-02-10 09:45:57 <slush1> they had broken recurent payments for many days, without any official notice.
1191 2011-02-10 09:46:03 <lfm> Ralith: well you understand the distintion between total bitcoins and total transactions where total transactions could easily be WAY larger than total bitcoins, its called circulation in economic terms
1192 2011-02-10 09:46:10 <slush1> today they fixed it - but notifications about payments arrive twice
1193 2011-02-10 09:46:38 <Ralith> lfm: well you apparently *don't* understand "the supply will decrease"
1194 2011-02-10 09:46:57 <lfm> Ralith:  and it is irrelevant
1195 2011-02-10 09:48:44 <lfm> if someone wants to buy 100 btc it doesnt mean we need to create 100 btc for them, its better for them to just find someone who wants to sell 100 btc
1196 2011-02-10 09:48:59 <Syke> Bitcoin is still young and fragile. There is a limited source of developer energy. It needs to be spent on urgent and important tasks, not ones that may be needed in 50 years.
1197 2011-02-10 09:49:25 <lfm> or imho even 5 years
1198 2011-02-10 09:49:37 <ArtForz> well, if one microcent ever is worth more than $0.01, I'll donate 1000 coins to find a way to increase precision :P
1199 2011-02-10 09:50:07 <lfm> ArtForz: yay! thank you! you have solved it! grin
1200 2011-02-10 09:50:18 <ArtForz> meanwhile, 51 bits ought to be enough for anybody.
1201 2011-02-10 09:50:49 <lfm> not that then 1000 btc will be worth billions of $
1202 2011-02-10 09:50:54 <lfm> note
1203 2011-02-10 09:50:58 <ArtForz> yep
1204 2011-02-10 09:51:09 <ArtForz> it'd be worth a bit over a billion ...
1205 2011-02-10 09:52:25 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1206 2011-02-10 09:54:57 <lfm> a lot better idea than eating my hat
1207 2011-02-10 09:59:03 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1208 2011-02-10 10:07:48 <lfm> itd be $100 billion I think
1209 2011-02-10 10:08:28 riush has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1210 2011-02-10 10:08:43 <ArtForz> that'd be at 1 microcent = $1
1211 2011-02-10 10:09:29 riush has joined
1212 2011-02-10 10:09:35 <lfm> oh ok you're right
1213 2011-02-10 10:13:53 stevenbucks has joined
1214 2011-02-10 10:15:10 stevenbucks has quit (Client Quit)
1215 2011-02-10 10:19:40 <midnightmagic_> ArtForz: a friend of mine brought up an interesting point; he says that it looks like bitcoinwatch (and others) are counting as total circulation transactions with two outputs, where the first output is the value, and the second output is the change to themselves. that is, they count the second output (which is to an unseen address) which is just the change and stays in the user's own wallet. can you see any way for there to be
1216 2011-02-10 10:19:40 <midnightmagic_> two outputs to a transaction where the second output is an unseen key *and not* just change to the user's own wallet again?
1217 2011-02-10 10:20:02 <midnightmagic_> unseen => unseen before/brand new/etc
1218 2011-02-10 10:20:12 <ArtForz> you can't tell which is send and which is change
1219 2011-02-10 10:20:52 <ArtForz> check the source, it uses the same addr format for change as for the send, and randomly puts one or the other first
1220 2011-02-10 10:21:08 <lfm> but ya there is a tendancy to count them both in total transactins
1221 2011-02-10 10:22:17 <midnightmagic_> is there a legitimate time when two outputs are in fact pure sends?
1222 2011-02-10 10:22:28 <ArtForz> not using the stock client
1223 2011-02-10 10:22:56 <ArtForz> using a modified client, you can create pretty much any number and combination of outputs you like
1224 2011-02-10 10:23:20 <midnightmagic_> and therefore one can only estimate by, say, dividing the total in half, if they want to try for a more representative count..
1225 2011-02-10 10:23:45 <midnightmagic_> so that makes sense then to count the whole, as long as one understands what the count represents.
1226 2011-02-10 10:23:55 <lfm> the only multiple output I have seen is pudinpops pool payouts
1227 2011-02-10 10:24:00 <ArtForz> yes
1228 2011-02-10 10:24:09 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1229 2011-02-10 10:24:16 <midnightmagic_> my friend noticed those and speculated it was a pool manager paying out.
1230 2011-02-10 10:24:17 <ArtForz> but theres nothing preventing multiple outputs
1231 2011-02-10 10:24:52 <ArtForz> technically you can also create really weird outputs
1232 2011-02-10 10:25:07 <ArtForz> how about a output *anyone* can claim?
1233 2011-02-10 10:25:19 <midnightmagic_> like charity
1234 2011-02-10 10:25:33 <midnightmagic_> public domain money..
1235 2011-02-10 10:25:50 <lfm> more like a race to see who claims it first
1236 2011-02-10 10:26:02 <ArtForz> yep
1237 2011-02-10 10:26:12 <ArtForz> pretty much throwing money on the street :P
1238 2011-02-10 10:26:21 <midnightmagic_> nobody, without a custom client or someone hand-writing a transaction?
1239 2011-02-10 10:26:50 <ArtForz> would be interesting to see how long it'd take for someone to claim it
1240 2011-02-10 10:26:59 <midnightmagic_> every time i ask a new question, my brain just explodes..  dude, totally hooked. this stuff kicks so much ass.
1241 2011-02-10 10:27:02 <lfm> midnightmagic right.
1242 2011-02-10 10:27:53 <midnightmagic_> i wonder if satoshi has a client that can forward on utility transactions, or is tooled to help him debug the network.
1243 2011-02-10 10:28:32 <midnightmagic_> it never occurred to me before now that the baseline bitcoind might be just a stripped down version. it makes sense given its (former) rigidity.
1244 2011-02-10 10:28:45 <lfm> or you could need two keys to spend an output like requiring dual signatures for a parnership
1245 2011-02-10 10:28:52 <ArtForz> yep
1246 2011-02-10 10:29:33 <midnightmagic_> that would be cool. you might be able to use that as a globally-stored shared-secret..
1247 2011-02-10 10:30:30 <midnightmagic_> and beyond that, i wonder if it could be used as a straight storage network.
1248 2011-02-10 10:31:00 <lfm> midnightmagicor for a distributed voting net
1249 2011-02-10 10:31:18 <midnightmagic_> ooo good one.
1250 2011-02-10 10:32:59 <midnightmagic_> one person doles out cents; approval voting is the mechanism; each "candidate" is a public address. track legitimate cents, and the end tally wit the greatest number is the winner. abstention is just to keep the cents.
1251 2011-02-10 10:33:57 <midnightmagic_> the other people can tally, but without the master key that the person who doled them out has to identify people, nobody knows who the other people are.
1252 2011-02-10 10:34:12 <edcba> wtf with bitcoin value ?
1253 2011-02-10 10:34:41 <lfm> edcba: you mean like it is skyrocketing?
1254 2011-02-10 10:34:46 <edcba> yes
1255 2011-02-10 10:35:02 <lfm> it happens, I think it is called a bubble
1256 2011-02-10 10:35:16 <edcba> and there doesn't seem to have so much volume
1257 2011-02-10 10:35:19 <lfm> it will pop
1258 2011-02-10 10:35:29 <midnightmagic_> steve gibson did a talk today on twit.tv and there was a buying rush.
1259 2011-02-10 10:35:33 <edcba> maybe it will pop :)
1260 2011-02-10 10:35:35 <lfm> well 50k volume last I looked
1261 2011-02-10 10:36:21 <lfm> ;;bc,mygox
1262 2011-02-10 10:36:22 <gribble> Error: "bc,mygox" is not a valid command.
1263 2011-02-10 10:36:28 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
1264 2011-02-10 10:36:28 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.1,"low":0.82,"vol":51350,"buy":1.0507,"sell":1.1,"last":1.1}}
1265 2011-02-10 10:36:35 <midnightmagic_> still trickling in at $1.1 (only 50.065 btc traded @ $1.1 though, I don't think that really counts)
1266 2011-02-10 10:36:44 <lfm> ya 51k now
1267 2011-02-10 10:37:31 <slush1> midnightmagic it counts, because those was _my_ coins :-)
1268 2011-02-10 10:37:38 <midnightmagic_> :-)
1269 2011-02-10 10:37:51 <lfm> slush you sold some?
1270 2011-02-10 10:37:56 <slush1> yes, 50 btc
1271 2011-02-10 10:38:20 <slush1> I'm selling bitcoins every day
1272 2011-02-10 10:38:44 <midnightmagic_> enjoy your $54 or so!
1273 2011-02-10 10:38:49 <edcba> slush1: do you mine ?
1274 2011-02-10 10:38:59 <slush1> 54.643!
1275 2011-02-10 10:39:06 * midnightmagic_ waits for the uncomfortable silence.
1276 2011-02-10 10:39:07 <slush1> edcba: yep, a little
1277 2011-02-10 10:39:26 <midnightmagic_> =]
1278 2011-02-10 10:39:59 <midnightmagic_> someone sold another 70 an hour and a half ago
1279 2011-02-10 10:40:03 <midnightmagic_> @$1.1
1280 2011-02-10 10:40:46 <UukGoblin> so it happened
1281 2011-02-10 10:41:07 <UukGoblin> can't buy 1 cent for bitcoins anymore
1282 2011-02-10 10:42:39 altamic has joined
1283 2011-02-10 10:43:53 <lfm> UukGoblin: sure you can convert to rubles
1284 2011-02-10 10:44:02 <UukGoblin> heh
1285 2011-02-10 10:44:09 <UukGoblin> http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/97/more-divisibility
1286 2011-02-10 10:44:11 <UukGoblin> !!! :-]
1287 2011-02-10 10:44:19 <lfm> then buy on the ruble market
1288 2011-02-10 10:45:20 <UukGoblin> you'd be losing though
1289 2011-02-10 10:46:08 unixhacker has joined
1290 2011-02-10 10:46:42 unixhacker has left ()
1291 2011-02-10 10:59:26 joe_1 has joined
1292 2011-02-10 11:05:37 <midnightmagic_> i have another hypothesis: Wei Dai is Satoshi.
1293 2011-02-10 11:08:21 <lfm> based on his b-money?
1294 2011-02-10 11:10:41 <midnightmagic_> he keeps showing up everywhere; they both write excellent english, wei dai is probably one of the few programmers who could write something like bitcoin on his own, and i bet we could find some interesting coincidences in public activity between the two.
1295 2011-02-10 11:11:20 <midnightmagic_> and yeah, satoshi cites wei dai.
1296 2011-02-10 11:11:39 <midnightmagic_> wei dai's assembly-fu is da best.
1297 2011-02-10 11:24:11 <molecular> slush, what's the worker "score" value?
1298 2011-02-10 11:25:36 <edcba> who his wei dai ?
1299 2011-02-10 11:25:51 <edcba> and i thought everyone already saw satoshi's facebook page
1300 2011-02-10 11:26:23 <edcba> a lot of ppl could have written bitcoin anyway
1301 2011-02-10 11:27:48 <edcba> maybe not 'invent' it but have enough knowledge implement it certainly
1302 2011-02-10 11:28:40 <joe_1> what does this mean in c++: _("some string")
1303 2011-02-10 11:37:29 <molecular> I actually have a negative USD balance on mtgox: -0.002. lol
1304 2011-02-10 11:39:16 <UukGoblin> typical mtgox ;-]
1305 2011-02-10 11:39:26 <UukGoblin> I had negative balance too IIRC
1306 2011-02-10 11:43:40 oink_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1307 2011-02-10 11:47:04 TD has joined
1308 2011-02-10 11:47:23 <xelister> joe_1: translation
1309 2011-02-10 11:48:33 <TD> happy parity day ;)
1310 2011-02-10 11:50:39 <DjeZAeL> parity day ?
1311 2011-02-10 11:51:07 <ArtForz> yep
1312 2011-02-10 11:51:17 <DjeZAeL> url ?
1313 2011-02-10 11:51:25 <ArtForz> ?
1314 2011-02-10 11:51:40 <ArtForz> ;;bc,mtgox
1315 2011-02-10 11:51:40 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.1,"low":0.82,"vol":51000,"buy":1.0517,"sell":1.099,"last":1.1}}
1316 2011-02-10 11:51:48 <DjeZAeL> is there an url somewhere which speaks about that ?
1317 2011-02-10 11:52:05 <ArtForz> used to be a joke on the forum
1318 2011-02-10 11:52:16 <DjeZAeL> erf
1319 2011-02-10 11:52:37 <ArtForz> e.g. "when bitcoin reaches $1/btc I'll throw a parity party"
1320 2011-02-10 11:53:12 <molecular> yay! where's the party?
1321 2011-02-10 11:53:18 * DjeZAeL throw an exception on ArtForz 
1322 2011-02-10 11:53:33 * ArtForz segfaults
1323 2011-02-10 11:53:53 <molecular> ArtForz, did you receive your metal yet?
1324 2011-02-10 11:53:53 <DjeZAeL> ^^
1325 2011-02-10 11:54:00 <ArtForz> old C coder, no exception handling ;)
1326 2011-02-10 11:54:23 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1327 2011-02-10 11:55:17 <ArtForz> molecular: ?
1328 2011-02-10 11:56:41 <DjeZAeL> he is reassembling parts of himself maybe
1329 2011-02-10 12:00:01 <DjeZAeL> maybe it is tired :)
1330 2011-02-10 12:01:21 <molecular> ArtForz, was referring to your custom chips.
1331 2011-02-10 12:01:41 <ArtForz> shipped today, should get here by monday
1332 2011-02-10 12:01:48 <molecular> nice!
1333 2011-02-10 12:02:36 <molecular> ArtForz, about the vrm temp reading / V setting via i2c...
1334 2011-02-10 12:02:47 <molecular> ArtForz, ... did you make progress to release something?
1335 2011-02-10 12:02:50 <ArtForz> nope
1336 2011-02-10 12:03:21 <ArtForz> I'm currently pretty busy working on a more manufacturable pcb/cooling design for my asic modules
1337 2011-02-10 12:03:40 <molecular> allright, keep at it.. that's more important ;)
1338 2011-02-10 12:04:00 <ArtForz> trying to get by with smaller fans
1339 2011-02-10 12:04:12 <molecular> so save space?
1340 2011-02-10 12:04:16 <ArtForz> no
1341 2011-02-10 12:04:18 <molecular> *to
1342 2011-02-10 12:05:02 <ArtForz> for now I have 4 40x40x28mm 18kRPM fans per module
1343 2011-02-10 12:05:20 <molecular> sounds loud ;)
1344 2011-02-10 12:05:29 <ArtForz> yeah, and wastes a lot of power
1345 2011-02-10 12:05:55 <molecular> arent bigger fans more efficient?
1346 2011-02-10 12:05:58 <ArtForz> yep
1347 2011-02-10 12:06:14 <ArtForz> but fitting something bigger than 40mm in a 1U is kinda impossible
1348 2011-02-10 12:06:35 <molecular> yep
1349 2011-02-10 12:06:44 <ArtForz> I only need that much airspeed because I use rather crappy glue-on heatsinks
1350 2011-02-10 12:06:49 <molecular> you'll have the whole back just fans
1351 2011-02-10 12:07:19 <ArtForz> so I'm redesigning it to have one big fin cooler shared by 4 chips
1352 2011-02-10 12:08:09 <ArtForz> basically a 1U xeon heatsink
1353 2011-02-10 12:08:58 <ArtForz> these things are designed for 100W+ cpus, shouldnt need much more than a light breeze to keep the heatsink < 45°C with 4 8W chips
1354 2011-02-10 12:09:50 * molecular is having trouble imagining the "sharing" of one cooler by 4 chips
1355 2011-02-10 12:10:01 <molecular> you're gonna glue it to all 4 ?
1356 2011-02-10 12:10:01 RazielZ has joined
1357 2011-02-10 12:10:15 <ArtForz> not quite
1358 2011-02-10 12:10:29 <molecular> heatpipes?
1359 2011-02-10 12:10:32 <ArtForz> 1mm thermal pads on the chips, heatsink screwed to PCB
1360 2011-02-10 12:11:14 <molecular> I thought you had each chip on it's own pcb plugged into a backplane
1361 2011-02-10 12:11:23 <ArtForz> well, in my current prototype design, yes
1362 2011-02-10 12:11:41 <ArtForz> new one has 4 chips on one PCB
1363 2011-02-10 12:11:49 <molecular> ah
1364 2011-02-10 12:12:25 <ArtForz> a bit more risky as you have a dead board if one chip is dead, but meh...
1365 2011-02-10 12:12:51 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1366 2011-02-10 12:13:24 <molecular> hmm, if it's really only 4 per 100 you'll have 16 unusable in worst case
1367 2011-02-10 12:14:05 <ArtForz> duh, I'll just add a bunch of alternate 0-ohm resistor locations so I can bypass single chips
1368 2011-02-10 12:14:31 <ArtForz> as long as they're not a dead short between core or i/o vcc and ground it should work
1369 2011-02-10 12:14:49 <molecular> you can't test them beforehand?
1370 2011-02-10 12:14:55 <ArtForz> nope
1371 2011-02-10 12:16:47 slush1 is now known as slush
1372 2011-02-10 12:16:58 slush has quit (Changing host)
1373 2011-02-10 12:16:58 slush has joined
1374 2011-02-10 12:18:10 <TD> ArtForz: where do you find the time for all this?
1375 2011-02-10 12:18:12 <TD> i am very envious
1376 2011-02-10 12:18:16 <TD> hey slush
1377 2011-02-10 12:18:25 <slush> TD:  hi
1378 2011-02-10 12:19:50 <molecular> hey slush. I'm unclear about the "score" value. Is that explained somewhere?
1379 2011-02-10 12:20:08 altamic has joined
1380 2011-02-10 12:20:10 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1381 2011-02-10 12:20:10 altamic has joined
1382 2011-02-10 12:20:10 <slush> not yet. But don't care about it, now it does not affect anything
1383 2011-02-10 12:20:23 <molecular> allright
1384 2011-02-10 12:20:44 <molecular> cause it jumps all over the place ;)
1385 2011-02-10 12:20:56 <slush> molecular: check today's -dev logs for 'score', I explained it here a little
1386 2011-02-10 12:21:02 <molecular> ok
1387 2011-02-10 12:28:51 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1388 2011-02-10 12:45:20 mtgox has joined
1389 2011-02-10 12:50:35 BlueMatt has joined
1390 2011-02-10 12:58:43 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1391 2011-02-10 13:02:39 altamic has joined
1392 2011-02-10 13:02:39 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1393 2011-02-10 13:02:39 altamic has joined
1394 2011-02-10 13:05:28 epicenter has joined
1395 2011-02-10 13:06:52 Gyjf_ has joined
1396 2011-02-10 13:07:10 <TD> interesting
1397 2011-02-10 13:07:11 <TD> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/57daaba7063468d103183563fa3abbffa318673f5dcbe7e6a113f4332ce4aebd
1398 2011-02-10 13:07:26 <TD> oh, no, sorry
1399 2011-02-10 13:07:34 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1400 2011-02-10 13:07:38 <TD> i was thinking this was a <0.01 transaction. but the cap must be on the total value
1401 2011-02-10 13:07:47 <TD> not each individual input/output
1402 2011-02-10 13:08:52 Gyjf has joined
1403 2011-02-10 13:10:01 epicenter has quit (Client Quit)
1404 2011-02-10 13:10:24 <mrb> < ArtForz> I was perfectly happy with my 565Mh/s OCL miner before he went all dickwavery with his 585Mh/s CAL mine
1405 2011-02-10 13:10:27 <mrb> you guys can thank me for the competition I started. now everyone --including you-- benefits from a +5% higher rate :)
1406 2011-02-10 13:11:10 Gyjf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1407 2011-02-10 13:13:25 <Gyjf> i keep getting errors with the cuda/opencl clients
1408 2011-02-10 13:13:45 <Gyjf> failing to load dlls mostly
1409 2011-02-10 13:26:31 <slush> Gyjf: do you have drivers with CUDA/OpenCL support?
1410 2011-02-10 13:26:41 <Gyjf> yes
1411 2011-02-10 13:26:49 <slush> which DLL is missing?
1412 2011-02-10 13:26:52 <Gyjf> latest cuda and opencl is installed
1413 2011-02-10 13:27:16 <slush> do you have nvidia or ati? Which driver version?
1414 2011-02-10 13:27:55 <Gyjf> nvidia
1415 2011-02-10 13:28:06 <Gyjf> cuda v 3.2
1416 2011-02-10 13:28:56 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1417 2011-02-10 13:29:03 <slush> should be ok
1418 2011-02-10 13:29:06 <Gyjf> couldnt find cuMemcpyDtoH_v2 in dll-file nvcuda.dll
1419 2011-02-10 13:29:19 <slush> huh
1420 2011-02-10 13:29:26 <slush> I've no idea
1421 2011-02-10 13:31:39 skeledrew has joined
1422 2011-02-10 13:33:17 <lfm> so the dll isnt missing, just one entry in the dll
1423 2011-02-10 13:33:35 <ArtForz> usually == driver/cuda mismatch
1424 2011-02-10 13:36:52 altamic has joined
1425 2011-02-10 13:38:58 <UukGoblin> I posted on the forum! :-]
1426 2011-02-10 13:41:47 <Gyjf> why do people insist on building stuff on ancient versions of python?
1427 2011-02-10 13:46:07 sabalaba has joined
1428 2011-02-10 13:50:58 <xelister> what is needed to run OpenCL miner on the CPU (for testing), on linux?
1429 2011-02-10 13:51:03 <UukGoblin> whoah, got 10 views already :-D
1430 2011-02-10 13:52:46 <lfm> xelister: I dont think current opencl miners work on the cpu even when you have the opencl cpu driver
1431 2011-02-10 13:52:59 <xelister> lfm: this sucks a donkey's cock
1432 2011-02-10 13:53:04 <xelister> any miner author around?
1433 2011-02-10 13:53:43 <UukGoblin> should be fairly easy to change
1434 2011-02-10 13:54:29 * UukGoblin tries to imagine not working opencl miners sucking donkey's cock
1435 2011-02-10 13:55:11 <Gyjf> getting it to work is a pain in the ass
1436 2011-02-10 13:55:17 <xelister> UukGoblin: lazy maxican on afternoon nap
1437 2011-02-10 13:55:20 <UukGoblin> 13 views and still no reply, this is exciting
1438 2011-02-10 14:00:22 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1439 2011-02-10 14:03:11 <lfm> I still dont see it, is there calls to split the penny when the yen is smaller then a penny?
1440 2011-02-10 14:05:25 <UukGoblin> hmm put it this way... there would be calls to split the penny if, say, 2 loafs of bread were worth 1 penny
1441 2011-02-10 14:09:56 <necrodearia> Suuuuuuuuuu
1442 2011-02-10 14:10:05 <necrodearia> I was just thinking
1443 2011-02-10 14:10:10 <necrodearia> Is anyone here a fan of Democracy Now?
1444 2011-02-10 14:10:27 <UukGoblin> oh noes, he was thinking! run for your lives!
1445 2011-02-10 14:11:18 * noagendamarket hides
1446 2011-02-10 14:11:19 <lfm> UukGoblin: well btc is no where near one bitcent == a loaf of bread let alone two
1447 2011-02-10 14:11:46 <UukGoblin> lfm, yes, but you don't buy bread with bitcoins, you buy other currencies with it
1448 2011-02-10 14:12:30 <UukGoblin> I mean
1449 2011-02-10 14:12:38 <necrodearia> Amy Goodman of Democracy Now will be visiting Milwaukee a short distance from where I live later this month.    What I was thinking was....  if I have opportunity, perhaps I could present and give to her a kind of Bitcoin-influenced or establish gift in support of her efforts put forth for Democracy Now
1450 2011-02-10 14:12:39 <UukGoblin> ok, put it differently...
1451 2011-02-10 14:12:39 <lfm> ya yen vs dollar is relevant then
1452 2011-02-10 14:12:48 <da2ce7> hot sex
1453 2011-02-10 14:12:51 <TD> what is "democracy now" ?
1454 2011-02-10 14:12:55 Diablo-D3 has joined
1455 2011-02-10 14:12:57 <necrodearia> http://democracynow.org
1456 2011-02-10 14:12:59 <UukGoblin> over the last few months, a minimum transaction fee has increased about 20x
1457 2011-02-10 14:13:11 <donpdonp> lfm: http://www.consumerqueen.com/consumerqueenwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/IMG_0152.jpg
1458 2011-02-10 14:13:32 <UukGoblin> so if you wanted to send a few KBs to be incorporated into the block chain, you had to pay 20x less few months ago
1459 2011-02-10 14:14:10 <da2ce7> well, in the first block... there are still many miners who accept no fees
1460 2011-02-10 14:14:32 <UukGoblin> also, what other reason to change the divisibility if not the changing price?
1461 2011-02-10 14:14:34 <lfm> oh! you wanna spam the block chain with non currency crap? good then
1462 2011-02-10 14:14:44 <necrodearia> Hmm, maybe the idea isn't so worthy.
1463 2011-02-10 14:15:20 <da2ce7> I still think that most of the miner should not accept transactions with fees less than 0.001
1464 2011-02-10 14:15:46 <UukGoblin> ideally I think it should be up to the user a bit more, rather than some arbitrary restrictions hardcoded in the main client
1465 2011-02-10 14:16:58 <lfm> da2ce7: actually you can submit txn fees smaller than 0.01 with a modified client and they are accepted into the chain just fine
1466 2011-02-10 14:18:04 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1467 2011-02-10 14:20:54 <x6763> what does everyone think about the term "proof-of-work"? in the context of requiring work to send email, it might be ok, but i think in the context of bitcoin, it contributes to the perception of wastefulness
1468 2011-02-10 14:22:18 <lfm> x6763: I dont think its the term, its the whole concept
1469 2011-02-10 14:23:09 <lfm> some people just dont see it as worthwhile, some do
1470 2011-02-10 14:23:26 <x6763> i don't know..."proof-of-difficulty" or something like that doesn't sound as bad, and seems to be more descriptive of what's actually being done
1471 2011-02-10 14:24:06 <UukGoblin> they're too easily confused with proof-of-concept imho
1472 2011-02-10 14:24:32 <lfm> sigh well as a techy I dont find euphamisms to be a good idea generally, call it what it is
1473 2011-02-10 14:25:47 <x6763> well, i remember what turned me off when i first heard about bitcoin was the "proof-of-work" thing before i understood bitcoin better...before i read the whitepaper, it just seemed stupid and wasteful, and the term "proof-of-work" still gives me that impression even now
1474 2011-02-10 14:26:03 <lfm> its one of the foundations of BTC value (there are others) that to mine btc requires work in the form of electrical power consumption
1475 2011-02-10 14:26:12 <BlueMatt> anyone ever gotten bitcoin to work over x11 forwarding?
1476 2011-02-10 14:26:21 prax has joined
1477 2011-02-10 14:26:38 <lfm> BlueMatt: perhaps only for nvidia
1478 2011-02-10 14:27:28 <TD> x6763: in the long run most people who encounter bitcoin won't learn anything about its internals
1479 2011-02-10 14:27:38 <TD> x6763: just like today most people don't understand exactly what it is visa/mastercard do
1480 2011-02-10 14:27:53 <BlueMatt> i take that back, bitcoin loads over x11 forwarding, but constant assertion failds
1481 2011-02-10 14:27:56 <ArtForz> so, should stack canarys be renamed stack overwrite indicators so it doesnt sound like using asphyxiating birdies to detect carbon monoxide?
1482 2011-02-10 14:28:55 <TD> haha
1483 2011-02-10 14:29:16 <TD> lfm: not just electricity, but hardware investment.
1484 2011-02-10 14:29:19 <ArtForz> yeah, I don't like changing technical terms for PC-ness ;)
1485 2011-02-10 14:29:37 <lfm> td true
1486 2011-02-10 14:30:27 <TD> ArtForz: what was the name of that ASIC process you were using, that allows you to do it cheaply enough?
1487 2011-02-10 14:30:34 <TD> you told me but I have forgotten and did not keep irc logs :(
1488 2011-02-10 14:30:35 <ArtForz> structured asic
1489 2011-02-10 14:30:38 <ArtForz> so far one HD mfg took the cake, renamed master/slave to primary/secondary jumper ...
1490 2011-02-10 14:31:14 <TD> thanks
1491 2011-02-10 14:31:55 <TD> how much performance vs a traditional custom-mask ASIC does this approach lose ?
1492 2011-02-10 14:31:57 * UukGoblin kills a child process
1493 2011-02-10 14:32:06 <ArtForz> a lot
1494 2011-02-10 14:33:12 <ArtForz> sructured vs std cell loses about 4x on efficiency, 10x on hash/sqmm
1495 2011-02-10 14:33:40 <TD> thanks
1496 2011-02-10 14:33:47 <BlueMatt> is there a bitcoin remote frontend not in php that works well?
1497 2011-02-10 14:33:59 <lfm> and saves 50x cost?
1498 2011-02-10 14:34:37 bulletbill has joined
1499 2011-02-10 14:34:44 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1500 2011-02-10 14:35:02 <ArtForz> depends on what process you're using
1501 2011-02-10 14:35:09 xelister has joined
1502 2011-02-10 14:35:17 xelister has quit (Changing host)
1503 2011-02-10 14:35:17 xelister has joined
1504 2011-02-10 14:35:19 <xelister> WHY UBUNTU SUCKS COCKS IN HELL
1505 2011-02-10 14:35:21 <xelister> part #4
1506 2011-02-10 14:35:44 <xelister> how to react to keypress of "volume down" while paying awfully loud NSFW video in compnay
1507 2011-02-10 14:35:49 <xelister> 1. wait
1508 2011-02-10 14:35:52 <xelister> 2. use hdd
1509 2011-02-10 14:35:59 <xelister> 3. show gay volume level icon
1510 2011-02-10 14:36:01 <xelister> 4. animate it
1511 2011-02-10 14:36:04 <xelister> 5. wait few seconds
1512 2011-02-10 14:36:10 <xelister> 6. decrease sound.  WHAT THE
1513 2011-02-10 14:37:13 <lfm> xelister: I think they are just copying miscrosoft in that case
1514 2011-02-10 14:37:53 <noagendamarket> lol
1515 2011-02-10 14:38:02 <BlueMatt> xelister: or possibly mac
1516 2011-02-10 14:38:26 <lfm> both then, lets not argue
1517 2011-02-10 14:38:29 <xelister> I think they are just gay mac fucktards :{
1518 2011-02-10 14:39:10 <lfm> so there is plenty of precident for doing it that way
1519 2011-02-10 14:40:04 <dsg> xelister: wth are you talking about? Ubuntu does not work that way on my machines.
1520 2011-02-10 14:40:24 <xelister> dsg: it does
1521 2011-02-10 14:40:27 <dsg> Or maybe this is one of the pointless compiz things? If so, just turn it off.
1522 2011-02-10 14:40:34 <xelister> from low end laptop
1523 2011-02-10 14:40:35 <dsg> I assure you, it does not. I just tried.
1524 2011-02-10 14:40:41 ducki2p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1525 2011-02-10 14:40:41 <xelister> to quad core super radeon box
1526 2011-02-10 14:40:46 <lfm> ya xelister just has a slow system and he wants to blame someone
1527 2011-02-10 14:40:58 <xelister> and the desktop was degeyed by turning compiz of
1528 2011-02-10 14:40:59 <xelister> off
1529 2011-02-10 14:41:40 <xelister> yea my 4 x 2.8 Ghz, 8 GB ram, 5770 is obviously inadequatelly prepared for monument tasks like changing the volume level.
1530 2011-02-10 14:41:57 gavinandresen has joined
1531 2011-02-10 14:42:01 <lfm> or he has drank too much caffine and just thinks everything else is slower
1532 2011-02-10 14:42:46 <BlueMatt> yea the volume thing takes about .5 seconds to popup on my three year old laptop, how terrible
1533 2011-02-10 14:42:56 <dsg> 2x2.2GHz, no such behaviour, you're full of shit. :)
1534 2011-02-10 14:43:27 <lfm> I use a 66 mhz 486 with a knob on the speaker and the response with ubuntu is fine, just tiurn the knob
1535 2011-02-10 14:43:37 <UukGoblin> heh
1536 2011-02-10 14:43:49 <lfm> (ok I lie)
1537 2011-02-10 14:43:55 <UukGoblin> how should android react to user pressing the 'call' button?
1538 2011-02-10 14:44:05 <UukGoblin> 1. try to switch off screen saver
1539 2011-02-10 14:44:15 <UukGoblin> 2. use loads of cpu in doing so, and wait about 2 seconds
1540 2011-02-10 14:44:26 <UukGoblin> 3. display some gay desktop which you can move around with a finger
1541 2011-02-10 14:44:31 <lfm> call random number cuz you dodnt properly enter number first
1542 2011-02-10 14:44:51 <UukGoblin> 4. use more cpu and reads from flash-card to display some gay icons on the aforementioned gay desktop
1543 2011-02-10 14:45:09 <UukGoblin> 5. run out of memory and repeat everything from step 2
1544 2011-02-10 14:45:31 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1545 2011-02-10 14:46:07 <xelister> call police and emulate wemens screaming, mixed with your voice taken out from last voicecalls, that where secretly autorecorded for your protection
1546 2011-02-10 14:46:44 * UukGoblin wishes someone wrote a decent linux distro that could run on android hardware
1547 2011-02-10 14:47:03 <UukGoblin> being able to run android apps would be a nice bonus too
1548 2011-02-10 14:47:16 <UukGoblin> (as would running iphone apps)
1549 2011-02-10 14:47:43 <lfm> run blackberry apps too?
1550 2011-02-10 14:47:48 ducki2p has joined
1551 2011-02-10 14:48:06 <xelister> run mintberry crunch <_<
1552 2011-02-10 14:48:56 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1553 2011-02-10 14:48:58 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107272 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1591 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 6 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 31969.43488358
1554 2011-02-10 14:49:25 * UukGoblin wonders if it'll go up to 40k on this iteration
1555 2011-02-10 14:50:05 <lfm> id say not till marh, maybe april
1556 2011-02-10 14:50:09 <ArtForz> *shakes 8-ball* not likely.
1557 2011-02-10 14:50:23 <UukGoblin> ;;8-ball
1558 2011-02-10 14:50:23 <gribble> Error: "8-ball" is not a valid command.
1559 2011-02-10 14:50:26 <UukGoblin> damn.
1560 2011-02-10 14:50:30 <noagendamarket> haha
1561 2011-02-10 14:51:07 <lfm> UukGoblin: you dont need an 8ball bot here, you got lots of 8ball trolls
1562 2011-02-10 14:51:25 * xelister BTC will be @16.72 by end of year
1563 2011-02-10 14:51:46 * xelister SCO needs bailing out, assign 51.2 TRILLON USD
1564 2011-02-10 14:52:09 <lfm> buy sco for 100 btc?
1565 2011-02-10 14:52:17 <UukGoblin> xelister, I bet you 100BTC that it'll be at a value different by at least $0.10 to what you said
1566 2011-02-10 14:52:30 <cosurgi> nah. android.
1567 2011-02-10 14:52:35 <cosurgi> pandora is better!
1568 2011-02-10 14:52:55 * cosurgi has one out of 1500 units on the world.
1569 2011-02-10 14:53:10 <lfm> whats that? a russian android?
1570 2011-02-10 14:53:19 <cosurgi> check pandora console :)
1571 2011-02-10 14:53:26 <noagendamarket> a fandroid ?
1572 2011-02-10 14:53:49 <UukGoblin> hrm
1573 2011-02-10 14:54:03 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, how much ram does it have?
1574 2011-02-10 14:54:08 <cosurgi> 256 MB
1575 2011-02-10 14:54:21 <cosurgi> enough for xfce.
1576 2011-02-10 14:54:29 <UukGoblin> can it make calls?
1577 2011-02-10 14:54:35 <cosurgi> my laptop bought 4 yars ago also has 256 MB ram
1578 2011-02-10 14:54:39 <cosurgi> no calls.
1579 2011-02-10 14:54:54 <xelister> what is needed to run openCL on linux, on CPU (ubuntu, nvidia that does not support opencl)?
1580 2011-02-10 14:55:19 <UukGoblin> xelister, an ATI card and drivers at the very least
1581 2011-02-10 14:55:23 <cosurgi> internet via bluetooth<->cellphone. And wifi of course. But no calls, except for gnomemeeting, ekiga or whatever its called. No skype (ARM architecture)
1582 2011-02-10 14:56:08 <UukGoblin> ARM architecture is not a reason to not have skype
1583 2011-02-10 14:56:16 <UukGoblin> skype runs on my ARM phone
1584 2011-02-10 14:56:18 <cosurgi> my cellphone bill soared since I got pandora. Now I';m waiting to change my billing plan :)
1585 2011-02-10 14:56:24 altamic has joined
1586 2011-02-10 14:56:24 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1587 2011-02-10 14:56:24 altamic has joined
1588 2011-02-10 14:56:39 <cosurgi> hm. ok. So probably skype runs, I didn't check.
1589 2011-02-10 14:57:15 <cosurgi> would need to check on forums, but I'm too lazy
1590 2011-02-10 14:57:32 <lfm> xelister: opencl on cpu would just be a lot of overhead compared to native cpu miners
1591 2011-02-10 15:00:14 <yebyen> so, the mtgox price is over $1/1BTC
1592 2011-02-10 15:00:16 <yebyen> that's pretty neat
1593 2011-02-10 15:00:31 <lfm> ya we noticed
1594 2011-02-10 15:00:37 <yebyen> got the champagne out?
1595 2011-02-10 15:00:44 <lfm> burp
1596 2011-02-10 15:00:53 <cosurgi> I just got 2*750W corsair PSUs, 2* semprons, 2* cases, 2* 2GB ram. Tomorrow (or saturday) I'll get 5*ati 5870 and 2*mobos.
1597 2011-02-10 15:01:38 <yebyen> skype runs on my archos32 android tablet
1598 2011-02-10 15:01:51 <yebyen> since about a month ago you can even make calls over wifi
1599 2011-02-10 15:01:52 <lfm> pandora looks like a cross between a gameboy and a laptop
1600 2011-02-10 15:02:04 <cosurgi> exactly
1601 2011-02-10 15:02:36 <cosurgi> in fact it's very entertaining to run spectrum emulator while in mass transit. Even more funny than ssh-ing to one of my boxes to check whatever.
1602 2011-02-10 15:02:43 <cosurgi> or amiga emulator.
1603 2011-02-10 15:03:22 <UukGoblin> sounds cool, but I'm looking for something that can also make calls and use SMS
1604 2011-02-10 15:03:37 <UukGoblin> I thought HTC dream could do it, but I can't find any decent software for it
1605 2011-02-10 15:03:56 <cosurgi> sms is no problem. I configures a cron script on my main server which checks GPU prices ob balta.pl and seds me an sms (orange) of prices are low.
1606 2011-02-10 15:04:11 <cosurgi> *if prices are low.
1607 2011-02-10 15:05:01 <cosurgi> it works in python. So sending sms from command line - from pandora - is no problem.
1608 2011-02-10 15:05:21 <cosurgi> but a real cellphone, for normal talking - sorry - pandora will not work :)
1609 2011-02-10 15:06:10 <UukGoblin> how about receiving sms?
1610 2011-02-10 15:06:22 <cosurgi> nope :)
1611 2011-02-10 15:06:31 <UukGoblin> mhm
1612 2011-02-10 15:06:39 <UukGoblin> well an HTC dream is just a bit lower spec to pandora
1613 2011-02-10 15:06:44 <UukGoblin> and can do all these things
1614 2011-02-10 15:06:49 <UukGoblin> but IT LACKS GOOD SOFTWARE, argh.
1615 2011-02-10 15:06:53 <cosurgi> one pocket is for a cellphone, another pocket is for pandora.
1616 2011-02-10 15:07:08 <cosurgi> pandora has all the software on the world. open soure of course.
1617 2011-02-10 15:07:14 <cosurgi> *open source
1618 2011-02-10 15:07:16 <xelister> lfm: no shit
1619 2011-02-10 15:07:19 <xelister> lfm: watson
1620 2011-02-10 15:07:27 <UukGoblin> one pocket for mp3 player, one pocket for cellphone, one pocket for wallet, one pocket for keys, one backpocket for hair tight, one backpocket for tube map
1621 2011-02-10 15:07:33 <xelister> im testing my miner, on some crappy computer, therefore I need OpenCL on CPU
1622 2011-02-10 15:07:38 <UukGoblin> trouser space exceeded.
1623 2011-02-10 15:07:43 <cosurgi> lol :))
1624 2011-02-10 15:08:07 <cosurgi> hell yeah, I specially bought trousers with extra pockets, just for pandora.
1625 2011-02-10 15:08:40 <UukGoblin> and also now this awesome e-ink stuff came out and actually has some competition to choose from
1626 2011-02-10 15:08:44 <UukGoblin> I'm grumpy
1627 2011-02-10 15:08:49 <cosurgi> then we rung around the city like some ruegelike player character :)
1628 2011-02-10 15:09:01 <UukGoblin> I want a phone, an e-ink e-book reader, and small laptop all in one
1629 2011-02-10 15:09:12 <cosurgi> pandora is all but a phone.
1630 2011-02-10 15:09:27 <cosurgi> except it's not e-ink. But 10h battery is enough.
1631 2011-02-10 15:09:50 <UukGoblin> phone is pretty important to get internet connectivity on the go
1632 2011-02-10 15:10:00 <UukGoblin> also making calls is useful
1633 2011-02-10 15:10:01 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1634 2011-02-10 15:10:06 <cosurgi> sometimes even 15h, if you lower contrast, and not overclock too much.
1635 2011-02-10 15:10:31 <cosurgi> yeah. So now my phone is for internet connection and for calls. Pandora does the rest of the job.
1636 2011-02-10 15:10:56 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1637 2011-02-10 15:11:19 <cosurgi> of course that's internet connection for firefox running on pandora.
1638 2011-02-10 15:11:23 <cosurgi> or ssh.
1639 2011-02-10 15:12:18 <UukGoblin> why can't they just make it all-in-one
1640 2011-02-10 15:12:21 <UukGoblin> and make it right
1641 2011-02-10 15:12:31 <cosurgi> pandora is done right. except for the phone.
1642 2011-02-10 15:12:41 <UukGoblin> I had such hopes for android before it came out and it was so dissappointing on the hardware side
1643 2011-02-10 15:12:50 <cosurgi> But in fact - I can tell you that it's better that it's separate. I can browse internet while talking.
1644 2011-02-10 15:12:52 <UukGoblin> s/hardware/software/
1645 2011-02-10 15:12:56 <lfm> right <-> to UukGoblin specifications?
1646 2011-02-10 15:13:12 <UukGoblin> lfm, of course
1647 2011-02-10 15:13:29 <cosurgi> and it's useful - I need to check something on internet during conversation, and I'm in the bus.
1648 2011-02-10 15:13:47 <Diablo-D3> lol
1649 2011-02-10 15:13:53 <Diablo-D3> is #bitcoind dead now?
1650 2011-02-10 15:13:54 <cosurgi> pandora in one hand, phone by the ear.
1651 2011-02-10 15:13:55 <lfm> cosurgi: lotsa phones can do that
1652 2011-02-10 15:13:57 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, but you can't forward calls between skype and PSTN, you can't record phone calls, you can't initiate calls from the pandora
1653 2011-02-10 15:14:11 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1654 2011-02-10 15:14:35 <UukGoblin> perhaps over bluetooth... but... meh.
1655 2011-02-10 15:14:40 <UukGoblin> also, you can't sniff GSM traffic.
1656 2011-02-10 15:14:43 <cosurgi> but if it's a single device then you can't talk during checking internet - remember it's in noisy envirnoment, like bus, and people are watching at your weird pranks.
1657 2011-02-10 15:15:05 <UukGoblin> again, perhaps with bluetooth headset you could.
1658 2011-02-10 15:15:19 <cosurgi> oh. right. bluetooth headset is a solution.
1659 2011-02-10 15:15:21 <UukGoblin> ah, which brings me to another thing that sucks
1660 2011-02-10 15:15:34 <cosurgi> but then you still need two devices: headset and pandora-phone
1661 2011-02-10 15:15:48 <lfm> true iphone lacks multitask
1662 2011-02-10 15:15:56 <UukGoblin> I want a bluetooth audio transmitter/receiver to which I can connect my own headphones and microphone via jack
1663 2011-02-10 15:16:10 <UukGoblin> also
1664 2011-02-10 15:16:19 <UukGoblin> I want a different communication scheme
1665 2011-02-10 15:16:47 <lfm> i want lotsa stuff too
1666 2011-02-10 15:16:48 <UukGoblin> I want voice packets to be retransmitted when they're lost
1667 2011-02-10 15:17:38 <UukGoblin> lfm, I believe things I just described are pretty reasonable and should be provided a long time ago
1668 2011-02-10 15:17:59 <UukGoblin> of course I want lots of stuff too, stuff that is unreasonable, e.g. my own generation ship
1669 2011-02-10 15:18:04 <lfm> i beleive 10 impossible things before breakfast
1670 2011-02-10 15:18:29 altamic has joined
1671 2011-02-10 15:18:29 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1672 2011-02-10 15:18:29 altamic has joined
1673 2011-02-10 15:18:31 <cosurgi> there's is a private link for people who can pay more, but want pandora faster: http://gbax.com/pandoraprivate.html
1674 2011-02-10 15:18:55 <cosurgi> I paid only 300 EUR. Now the price went up.
1675 2011-02-10 15:19:00 <UukGoblin> "The Pandora console is totally unique, it has no competition" what sort of marketing bullshit is that...
1676 2011-02-10 15:19:35 <lfm> UukGoblin: others dont put gameboy buttons on their nettops
1677 2011-02-10 15:19:42 <UukGoblin> "Pandora software is almost totally free" <- "almost"?
1678 2011-02-10 15:19:44 <cosurgi> :-) what another device runs linux, has keyboard, two joysticks and weighs 280 grams?
1679 2011-02-10 15:20:05 <cosurgi> I didn't pay for anything.
1680 2011-02-10 15:20:15 <cosurgi> maybe there is something that I missed.
1681 2011-02-10 15:20:28 <UukGoblin> HTC Desire Z has all of the above except 1 joystick-resembling thingy instead of 2
1682 2011-02-10 15:20:44 <UukGoblin> but you can also use the accelerometer for analog input, as well as the touchscreen
1683 2011-02-10 15:21:04 <cosurgi> pandora has touchscreen but no accelerometer
1684 2011-02-10 15:21:07 <UukGoblin> "competition" doesn't mean "has to be exactly the same", it means "has to provide similar features"
1685 2011-02-10 15:21:24 <UukGoblin> hrm, USB host is nice actually
1686 2011-02-10 15:22:17 <cosurgi> and the USB miniAB slot acts as USB-ethernet card if plugged into PC, so you instantly get eth connection with PC.
1687 2011-02-10 15:22:33 <UukGoblin> and well, why are there shitloads of different bluetooth headsets, but none of them has a bloody jack port?
1688 2011-02-10 15:23:02 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, HTC Dream can do it too
1689 2011-02-10 15:23:31 <UukGoblin> but it doesn't have USB Host functionality
1690 2011-02-10 15:23:36 <cosurgi> but does it run linux?
1691 2011-02-10 15:23:51 <UukGoblin> HTC Dream? Yes, a cannibalized version of it called android
1692 2011-02-10 15:24:02 <cosurgi> I mean - just plug ubuntu on USB key, and directly install it?
1693 2011-02-10 15:24:14 <cosurgi> oh. android, forget that.
1694 2011-02-10 15:24:19 k_test has joined
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1696 2011-02-10 15:24:40 <UukGoblin> I was running debian on it
1697 2011-02-10 15:24:45 <cosurgi> ok. not bad.
1698 2011-02-10 15:25:07 <UukGoblin> but it was a 'guest' to android - i.e. a chroot to which I ssh'ed from an android app
1699 2011-02-10 15:25:08 <cosurgi> and making calls worked from debian?
1700 2011-02-10 15:25:13 <cosurgi> ok.
1701 2011-02-10 15:25:24 <UukGoblin> I also ran X - Xvnc and connected to localhost via an android VNC client - sucks
1702 2011-02-10 15:25:35 <UukGoblin> no, making calls only worked from android
1703 2011-02-10 15:25:42 <cosurgi> ok, you convinced me that pandora is better :)
1704 2011-02-10 15:25:46 GeorgeJ has joined
1705 2011-02-10 15:25:52 <UukGoblin> that's what I mean - the hardware is allright, but the software is bloody sh*t
1706 2011-02-10 15:25:55 <GeorgeJ> Hello folks
1707 2011-02-10 15:26:01 <cosurgi> but I'm find with separate device for calls.
1708 2011-02-10 15:26:11 <cosurgi> *I'm fine
1709 2011-02-10 15:26:12 <UukGoblin> hi GeorgeJ
1710 2011-02-10 15:26:31 <UukGoblin> yeah, you've actually convinced me a bit towards having separate devices
1711 2011-02-10 15:26:44 <UukGoblin> but again - that setup still lacks some of the features I described
1712 2011-02-10 15:27:22 <cosurgi> especially, when I really had to browse internet while talking with the other guy on the phone, and the tramway (omg what's the english word?) was really noise. Loud-speak system wouldn't work.
1713 2011-02-10 15:27:30 <lfm> just get two iphones
1714 2011-02-10 15:28:19 k_test has left ("I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org")
1715 2011-02-10 15:29:02 <UukGoblin> lfm, what does that solve? you still end up with sh*ty software
1716 2011-02-10 15:29:22 <lfm> ok two androids whever you like
1717 2011-02-10 15:29:31 <UukGoblin> even sh*tier :-]
1718 2011-02-10 15:29:39 <GeorgeJ> I'm working towards understanding the inner workings of bitcoin, so I started working on a light bitcoin mining server, however I realised there is no point in rewriting everything from scartch, so I'm basicaly just gonna make a proxy for bitcoind. I have looked at the only RPC-based open-source miner I could find, the one at http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3078.0 . However as far as I understand from the code, the s
1719 2011-02-10 15:30:08 <UukGoblin> GeorgeJ, you were cut off after "the code, the s"
1720 2011-02-10 15:30:27 <GeorgeJ> meh
1721 2011-02-10 15:30:38 <cosurgi> I have debian installed on one of those two SDHC cards, and I can boot into it. But it's not fully configured yet: bluetooth and wifi not working. So currently I stay with default angstrom. It's just a matter of time when someone takes their kernel (there's a git repo on their side) and compiles it right on debian. Then it'll all work.
1722 2011-02-10 15:30:56 <cosurgi> *their site
1723 2011-02-10 15:31:23 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, that still doesn't give me all the functionality I expect
1724 2011-02-10 15:31:38 <cosurgi> opkg from angstrom is fairly similar with dpkg.
1725 2011-02-10 15:31:47 <GeorgeJ> As far as I understand from the code, the scripts only check for the validity of the hash and submits it to bitcoind, but I noticed the script has a TARGET of its own, is that allowed? Because from what I've read from the wiki the target is generated by the network itself, no?
1726 2011-02-10 15:31:54 <cosurgi> yeah. the phone, accelereometer and GPS - all missing :)
1727 2011-02-10 15:32:06 <lfm> UukGoblin: all you need is a time machine go to future where all your needs are satisfied
1728 2011-02-10 15:32:10 <Diablo-D3> GeorgeJ: what are we looking at?
1729 2011-02-10 15:32:25 <yebyen> archos32 could not do gps when it was released, but one of the recent updates to gapps enabled geoip
1730 2011-02-10 15:32:28 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, no, I mean even with an additional phone device
1731 2011-02-10 15:32:29 <yebyen> so programs like maps are usable
1732 2011-02-10 15:32:38 <UukGoblin> lfm, I doubt all my needs will be satisified in the future, actually
1733 2011-02-10 15:32:43 <cosurgi> UukGoblin: what is missing?
1734 2011-02-10 15:32:43 <yebyen> and it can use a bluetooth dongle :)
1735 2011-02-10 15:33:03 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, what I said - recording calls, forwarding calls between different networks, sniffing GSM traffic
1736 2011-02-10 15:33:04 <yebyen> for times when you have no network but you have maps
1737 2011-02-10 15:33:09 <cosurgi> I know, a 12 inch screen, from a tiny laser projector :)
1738 2011-02-10 15:33:18 <UukGoblin> switching into walkie-talkie mode, encrypting calls
1739 2011-02-10 15:33:20 <cosurgi> ok.
1740 2011-02-10 15:33:26 Necr0s has joined
1741 2011-02-10 15:33:27 <lfm> george pools use a target of their own for shares thats easier. proper blocks will also satisfy thet targbet
1742 2011-02-10 15:33:29 <GeorgeJ> The pooled mining server from http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3078.0, specificaly http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py
1743 2011-02-10 15:33:40 <cosurgi> well, that's pretty high requirements :)
1744 2011-02-10 15:33:46 <luke-jr> fee: -0.48000000
1745 2011-02-10 15:33:53 <UukGoblin> yes, but hardware-wise it's all met
1746 2011-02-10 15:33:56 <luke-jr> I *really* hate that bitcoind pays fees without permission
1747 2011-02-10 15:34:02 <UukGoblin> it's just shitty software in all cases that can't do it
1748 2011-02-10 15:34:09 <luke-jr> especially when it's 60 cents worth
1749 2011-02-10 15:34:14 <cosurgi> well, write it :P
1750 2011-02-10 15:34:17 <lfm> GeorgeJ: you can actually see the main net target value in the main block data
1751 2011-02-10 15:34:24 <GeorgeJ> lfm: I understand, so basicaly I can choose whatever target I want for my miner and it would all be okay? Even if i choose the easiest one?
1752 2011-02-10 15:34:31 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, that's what everyone keeps saying
1753 2011-02-10 15:34:33 <yebyen> luke-jr: how much are you sending?
1754 2011-02-10 15:34:41 <UukGoblin> I'm just one poor coder, I don't have enough time!
1755 2011-02-10 15:34:48 <yebyen> luke-jr: i thought the fees were only for abnormally large transactions...
1756 2011-02-10 15:34:49 <luke-jr> that was 11.8
1757 2011-02-10 15:34:54 <UukGoblin> plus when I do have time, I waste it all on IRC anyway
1758 2011-02-10 15:35:11 <cosurgi> UukGoblin: what else could I say? "wait till someone writes it", "start a company, write it, and make profity by selling it". It's all been said.
1759 2011-02-10 15:35:13 <yebyen> that's not good
1760 2011-02-10 15:35:24 <cosurgi> ah, me too.
1761 2011-02-10 15:35:34 <lfm> GeorgeJ: ya make an easier target to see more of the fail results. its a way of measuring pool effort
1762 2011-02-10 15:35:42 <cosurgi> speaking of not enough time. I should be doind something right now. Bye :)
1763 2011-02-10 15:35:45 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, you could say: "oh, there's that device called $x, looks like it's the right one, check it out"
1764 2011-02-10 15:35:55 <cosurgi> heh. unfortunately :)
1765 2011-02-10 15:36:23 <UukGoblin> :-(
1766 2011-02-10 15:36:24 <UukGoblin> bye
1767 2011-02-10 15:36:35 Krajicke has joined
1768 2011-02-10 15:37:47 <yebyen> anyone a heavy delicious user?
1769 2011-02-10 15:38:14 <yebyen> i'm going to write this blog frontend to delicious
1770 2011-02-10 15:38:30 <luke-jr> I thought Yahoo killed delicious
1771 2011-02-10 15:38:35 <yebyen> but i need someone who wants to use it, so i need someone who will listen while i describe all of the features it might have
1772 2011-02-10 15:38:44 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/8bf5d11ef4ad2a48eeb80a0aa84d578bc6aac2555ab19fad87d9ab6c96665529
1773 2011-02-10 15:38:47 <luke-jr> LOL I see why the big fee
1774 2011-02-10 15:38:49 <yebyen> luke-jr: supposedly some time this year, i have almost 20000 bookmarks
1775 2011-02-10 15:39:04 <yebyen> luke-jr: so, you can imagine I am not too keen on the idea of closing delicious
1776 2011-02-10 15:39:20 <luke-jr> yebyen: this is why you shouldn't use proprietary software, even if it's a webapp
1777 2011-02-10 15:39:29 <yebyen> and I'll be putting up my own SemanticScuttle site when it finally goes down
1778 2011-02-10 15:39:33 <yebyen> luke-jr: but it has an open api :)
1779 2011-02-10 15:39:45 <luke-jr> yebyen: irrelevant
1780 2011-02-10 15:39:53 <yebyen> luke-jr: baloney
1781 2011-02-10 15:40:09 <yebyen> the api is open and there are open implementations called Scuttle
1782 2011-02-10 15:40:13 <luke-jr> so check out my tx
1783 2011-02-10 15:40:19 <luke-jr> Number of inputs: 265 (Jump to inputs)
1784 2011-02-10 15:40:43 <yebyen> therefore, you can make your own delicious if they finally decide to kill it
1785 2011-02-10 15:40:48 <yebyen> and easily import your databases
1786 2011-02-10 15:40:59 <yebyen> or, i'm thinking, spend more difficulty importing your databases
1787 2011-02-10 15:41:07 <yebyen> and get the opportunity to review all 20000 of your bookmarks
1788 2011-02-10 15:41:16 <yebyen> (there's something worth checking over in there, right?)
1789 2011-02-10 15:41:35 <luke-jr> did I just create the biggest tx ever?
1790 2011-02-10 15:41:44 <yebyen> why is it so large?
1791 2011-02-10 15:41:49 <gp5st1> i'm sorry; i'm green to the btc protocol.  Can I create a custom transaction type that gives the block solver money for solving it, and forces that amount to be at least a certain amount? (i.e.: this transaction cannot happen for less than x btc)
1792 2011-02-10 15:41:50 <luke-jr> 47.793 KB
1793 2011-02-10 15:42:16 <luke-jr> gp5st1: you can include as much fee as you want
1794 2011-02-10 15:42:33 <luke-jr> yebyen: because I just emptied out my account which was full of cents
1795 2011-02-10 15:42:49 gwillen has joined
1796 2011-02-10 15:42:50 <yebyen> from all different senders?
1797 2011-02-10 15:43:20 <yebyen> i guess if it's particularly hard to solve, you can pay a fee, lol
1798 2011-02-10 15:43:30 <yebyen> it was just 11.6 though
1799 2011-02-10 15:43:33 <yebyen> that's not even one block
1800 2011-02-10 15:43:43 <lfm> luke-jr: nope there is an old 200k block from previous limit
1801 2011-02-10 15:43:46 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, that's not a transaction /type/ you want, you just want a regular transaction with a fee, yes you can do it
1802 2011-02-10 15:43:53 <luke-jr> yebyen: huh?
1803 2011-02-10 15:43:57 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1804 2011-02-10 15:44:43 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: i'm trying to build a system that uses bitcoins, and i don't want people to be able to do a transaction for less than a certain amount.
1805 2011-02-10 15:44:50 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, the 'forcing' you're talking of... I don't understand... at which side do you want to force it?
1806 2011-02-10 15:45:18 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: maybe i should just make it part of my protocol to not accept a transaction unless it was for a certain amount
1807 2011-02-10 15:45:24 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, they will always be able to make transactions with a fee lower than you specify, because the bitcoin network allows them that
1808 2011-02-10 15:45:41 <gp5st1> ok, i'll have to put the check on myside then
1809 2011-02-10 15:46:23 <UukGoblin> yup, sounds like it
1810 2011-02-10 15:46:32 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, what are you planning btw? :-]
1811 2011-02-10 15:46:49 <yebyen> is it better than my craps table idea?
1812 2011-02-10 15:47:01 altamic has joined
1813 2011-02-10 15:47:35 <lfm> luke-jr: back at 2010-08-09 20:08:34 there is a txn with 734 inputs, your is only 265 inputs
1814 2011-02-10 15:48:25 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|46:DC:EA:D3:17:FE:45:D8:09:23:EB:97:E4:95:64:10:D4:CD:B2:C2
1815 2011-02-10 15:48:40 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Just postin that for all you guys that want linux on your ps3
1816 2011-02-10 15:48:41 <yebyen> you sunk my battleshipph?
1817 2011-02-10 15:49:10 <UukGoblin> nameless|, linux on ps3 worked after they released it ;-]
1818 2011-02-10 15:49:13 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I have no interest in your battleship
1819 2011-02-10 15:49:47 <yebyen> i don't have a ps3, but my neighbor does, and when i put linux on his computer he already wasn't happy about it
1820 2011-02-10 15:49:52 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: it's a dns system.  i know that some other ideas out there too (me and my 'peeps' are on ##dns-p2p).  I want someone to 'buy' a domain.  attached to the transaction is an hmac of some info to id the domain and a fingerprint for the buys public key (i figure that should be small enough data wise).  the dns record then points to that block/transaction and the end user can use the block/transaction to verify th
1821 2011-02-10 15:50:02 <yebyen> i think he'd protect the ps3 more heavily
1822 2011-02-10 15:50:15 Krajicke has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1823 2011-02-10 15:50:57 <yebyen> damn february
1824 2011-02-10 15:53:36 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1825 2011-02-10 15:53:44 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, ah, yes, exactly what I've been thinking about, and some other guys too
1826 2011-02-10 15:54:08 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, check out this post http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1790.0
1827 2011-02-10 15:54:18 <gp5st1> ah, i've known there were others, but i thought they were doing stuff a little differently
1828 2011-02-10 15:54:28 <yebyen> i want to put lexical closures into transaction blocks :x
1829 2011-02-10 15:54:45 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, I'd also recommend having a look at netsukuku and ANDNA if you haven't seen it already
1830 2011-02-10 15:54:51 <yebyen> and you have to fork over before you can run the code
1831 2011-02-10 15:55:08 <UukGoblin> lexical closures into blocks..?
1832 2011-02-10 15:55:12 <lfm> i think its evil to try to hijack bitcoin block chain for other things like dns
1833 2011-02-10 15:55:13 <yebyen> nm
1834 2011-02-10 15:55:20 <UukGoblin> lfm, why?
1835 2011-02-10 15:55:27 <UukGoblin> lfm, I think it's perfect
1836 2011-02-10 15:55:43 <gp5st1> lfm: we're just adding small sigs to the block data, not dns information
1837 2011-02-10 15:55:45 <lfm> I run node for bitcoin, not for dns
1838 2011-02-10 15:56:07 <gp5st1> lfm: i'm begining to think you didn't read what i wrote. please do so
1839 2011-02-10 15:56:13 <UukGoblin> lfm, you don't want the extra income from transaction fees? fine, drop the transactions and let others do it
1840 2011-02-10 15:56:14 <lfm> make your own block chain
1841 2011-02-10 15:56:23 <UukGoblin> own block chain doesn't make sense
1842 2011-02-10 15:56:32 <gp5st1> lfm: please read what i wrote
1843 2011-02-10 15:56:32 <lfm> to you
1844 2011-02-10 15:56:54 <yebyen> i was making my own block chain for a while and everybody said it was stupid :)
1845 2011-02-10 15:57:01 <lfm> gp5st1: small sigs != zero
1846 2011-02-10 15:57:06 <yebyen> never sold the binaries to anyone at all
1847 2011-02-10 15:57:42 <gp5st1> lfm: what's your point? blocks can contain arbitrary data. and there is a fee assosiated with processing that block as well, much more than there is for a normal transaction
1848 2011-02-10 15:58:10 <noagendamarket> I like it...it supports the generators
1849 2011-02-10 15:58:11 <yebyen> how big is the block store now
1850 2011-02-10 15:58:15 <lfm> dilutes bitcoin, diverts resources
1851 2011-02-10 15:58:21 <yebyen> i don't have a bitcoind running
1852 2011-02-10 15:58:38 <UukGoblin> what would it "dilute" bitcoin in?
1853 2011-02-10 15:58:41 <lfm> so your freeloading
1854 2011-02-10 15:58:51 DrEeevil has joined
1855 2011-02-10 15:58:53 <yebyen> its not freeloading if they pay tx fees :)
1856 2011-02-10 15:58:53 <gp5st1> lfm: it's 160chars in my implementation
1857 2011-02-10 15:59:07 <lfm> gp5st1: so use twitter
1858 2011-02-10 15:59:16 <UukGoblin> lol
1859 2011-02-10 15:59:18 <gp5st1> lfm: you're not getting the point
1860 2011-02-10 15:59:19 <yebyen> he's talking about setting a minimum price
1861 2011-02-10 15:59:28 <yebyen> and adding some value
1862 2011-02-10 15:59:41 bonsaikitten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1863 2011-02-10 15:59:44 <UukGoblin> lfm, anyways, like I said - you want to run bitcoin-only node, suit yourself
1864 2011-02-10 15:59:53 <UukGoblin> others will use it for other purposes too
1865 2011-02-10 16:00:01 <UukGoblin> and everyone will be happy
1866 2011-02-10 16:00:02 <gp5st1> lfm: that 160 chars wouldn't be usable in the dns system that exists outside of btc, but uses btc to verify the domain was paid for unless that transaction had a fee with it
1867 2011-02-10 16:00:03 <lfm> evil
1868 2011-02-10 16:00:10 <gp5st1> why
1869 2011-02-10 16:00:21 <yebyen> at work we have a firewall, such that openvpn, dns, bitcoin requests all do not pass
1870 2011-02-10 16:00:23 <gp5st1> why is it evil to use a payment system to verify that something was paid for?
1871 2011-02-10 16:00:27 <gp5st1> lfm: answer that
1872 2011-02-10 16:00:30 <lfm> if you dont understand what I said you never will.
1873 2011-02-10 16:00:34 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, first problem: who and how and why determines the price of a domain?
1874 2011-02-10 16:00:38 <yebyen> i think its evil
1875 2011-02-10 16:00:44 <gp5st1> lfm: maybe if you explained yourself
1876 2011-02-10 16:00:50 <yebyen> but there is a tangible result
1877 2011-02-10 16:01:03 <gp5st1> lfm: why shouldn't i use a payment system to verify payment of something?
1878 2011-02-10 16:01:05 <yebyen> ssh/http are still available
1879 2011-02-10 16:01:08 <yebyen> so you can still do anything
1880 2011-02-10 16:01:31 <gp5st1> yebyen: ?
1881 2011-02-10 16:01:33 <lfm> its like playing a game on a atm
1882 2011-02-10 16:01:34 <UukGoblin> yebyen, not anything anymore
1883 2011-02-10 16:01:44 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: still working on that.  either  a market type deal like the btc curency exchange or just a flat bottom fee?
1884 2011-02-10 16:01:48 <gp5st1> lfm: how so
1885 2011-02-10 16:01:57 <yebyen> UukGoblin: what can't you tunnel through http/ssh?
1886 2011-02-10 16:02:03 DrEeevil is now known as bonsaikitten
1887 2011-02-10 16:02:05 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, flat bottom fee will change as the bitcoin's value changes
1888 2011-02-10 16:02:09 <gp5st1> what if i were buying something real and put 160 of id in there so when i got the object i know it was what i bought
1889 2011-02-10 16:02:22 <UukGoblin> yebyen, you can't use that connection if you don't have a tunnel end-point
1890 2011-02-10 16:02:23 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: i know
1891 2011-02-10 16:02:24 <yebyen> i haven't figured out how to run the openvpn daemon and get it to connect, but i suspect if my remote daemon was running on port 80, the firewalls would not stop me
1892 2011-02-10 16:02:27 <lfm> atm are not for playing games. bitcoin chain is for coin txn, not for dns timestamps
1893 2011-02-10 16:02:33 <yebyen> UukGoblin: yeah, lucky that i have several
1894 2011-02-10 16:02:38 <gp5st1> lfm: it's not a timestamp
1895 2011-02-10 16:02:43 <gp5st1> lfm: this is a transaction
1896 2011-02-10 16:02:45 <UukGoblin> lfm, it's more like using the ATM to get money to play a game somewhere else
1897 2011-02-10 16:02:57 <yebyen> once i'm connected to openvpn, there's a node to run dns, a public endpoint on university pipe with no firewalls
1898 2011-02-10 16:02:59 <gp5st1> lfm: i'm just stating in transaction what i bought so everyone can see
1899 2011-02-10 16:03:04 <gp5st1> lfm: what's evil about that?
1900 2011-02-10 16:03:13 <yebyen> UukGoblin: i should sell these certs
1901 2011-02-10 16:03:21 <yebyen> except the endpoint is hosted out of nonprofit space
1902 2011-02-10 16:03:36 <yebyen> i've got another one in profit space though on the same pipes L:)
1903 2011-02-10 16:03:38 <gp5st1> lfm: remember, this is a transaction, money is changing hands in it, specifically from the buyer to the block solver
1904 2011-02-10 16:04:18 <UukGoblin> exactly
1905 2011-02-10 16:04:29 <UukGoblin> nothing evil in that
1906 2011-02-10 16:04:47 <yebyen> whats in the box?  some money and... a coded message
1907 2011-02-10 16:04:59 <yebyen> too bad you had to decrypt the message to get the money
1908 2011-02-10 16:05:13 <gp5st1> lfm: i'm just using 168 chars metadata in the transaction to state what i bought. it could be a bike, a domain, food, a new computer, but it's just information and has nothing to do with dns what so ever
1909 2011-02-10 16:05:56 <UukGoblin> OTOH, I'd like a standard for storing bitcoin addresses in DNS records. :-]
1910 2011-02-10 16:06:18 <yebyen> you can do that, you don't need a new standard for it
1911 2011-02-10 16:06:25 <yebyen> isn't there a TXT record?
1912 2011-02-10 16:06:29 <UukGoblin> should it be TXT?
1913 2011-02-10 16:06:39 <UukGoblin> there is, yes
1914 2011-02-10 16:06:46 <lfm> just a small packet of drugs in the atm, nothing wrong with that. the buyer is paying for the drugs with atm just like atm is designed for. no one notices the drug packet we slip in there
1915 2011-02-10 16:07:13 <UukGoblin> but I want to be able to give someone my bitcoin address as btc.mydomain.com and expect that someone to be able to type that address in the bitcoin client and pay me
1916 2011-02-10 16:07:32 <yebyen> UukGoblin: that just needs client support
1917 2011-02-10 16:07:36 <gp5st1> lfm: i don't understand what your problem is. why can't i buy a computer and put the serial number in the tx so that everyone knows my comps serial number?
1918 2011-02-10 16:07:51 <UukGoblin> yebyen, yes
1919 2011-02-10 16:07:54 <yebyen> if the hash passes the validation check, it's probably the correct address
1920 2011-02-10 16:07:58 <yebyen> so the client should honor it
1921 2011-02-10 16:07:59 <gp5st1> lfm: in case it's stolen i could be like 'look, i bought it, here is the proof that that s/n is mine and i bought it'
1922 2011-02-10 16:08:12 <gp5st1> lfm: there is no dns information in the tx at all
1923 2011-02-10 16:08:25 <lfm> biycoin is not an insurance company for registering your serial numbers
1924 2011-02-10 16:08:29 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, no? so what do you use to store the dns info?
1925 2011-02-10 16:08:41 <gp5st1> lfm: this isn't insurance…..please us the correct terms
1926 2011-02-10 16:08:41 <yebyen> dns servers ^_^
1927 2011-02-10 16:08:49 <x6763> UukGoblin: dns will probably be stored in a DHT, though it could be stored in any type of storage system
1928 2011-02-10 16:09:04 <UukGoblin> I think it could be stored in the tx info just as well
1929 2011-02-10 16:09:08 <UukGoblin> it's tiny
1930 2011-02-10 16:09:17 <x6763> UukGoblin: dns records aren't necessarily tiny
1931 2011-02-10 16:09:19 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: ugh, not that's ugly:)
1932 2011-02-10 16:09:23 brunner has joined
1933 2011-02-10 16:09:38 <lfm> bitcoin is not a dns system for verifying your distributed dns transactions. you wanna move btc then feel free, use standard btc txn
1934 2011-02-10 16:09:40 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: we could be storing public keys in there in more, they could be large
1935 2011-02-10 16:09:56 <gp5st1> lfm: if btc isn't about verifying transactions, what is it for?
1936 2011-02-10 16:10:18 <lfm> btc txn, not dns txn
1937 2011-02-10 16:10:26 <x6763> i figure we either use bitcoin or we compete with bitcoin (and we'd probably win)
1938 2011-02-10 16:10:30 <gp5st1> lfm: d nfkasdnfkjdsnfkjadsnfkajdsnfkadsbfnkadsj
1939 2011-02-10 16:10:30 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, if you want to store large amounts in there, you'll pay large tx fees
1940 2011-02-10 16:10:34 <gp5st1> lfm: fnjdsnfkjsdnfkjnsadkjfnsadkjfnksdnfkdsjanfaksdf
1941 2011-02-10 16:10:45 <gp5st1> lfm: look, it is a transaction, it has nothing to do with dns
1942 2011-02-10 16:11:03 <lfm> well thats not what you are claiming elsewhere
1943 2011-02-10 16:11:21 <x6763> but by storing the records in a DHT, we reduce the use of bitcoin down to a minimum, by just using transactions with a small script
1944 2011-02-10 16:11:23 <gp5st1> lfm: no, that's what i said everywhere if you would have bothered to read anything of what i even wrote
1945 2011-02-10 16:11:29 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, or you could just store an NS record in the block chain and point it at your nameserver
1946 2011-02-10 16:11:35 <gp5st1> lfm: why didn't you read anything i wrote
1947 2011-02-10 16:11:45 <lfm> too much like work
1948 2011-02-10 16:11:53 <gp5st1> lfm: then stfu
1949 2011-02-10 16:12:02 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: no, all the dns info is elsewhere, only in the tx block is 168 chars that verify you as the owner of the domain
1950 2011-02-10 16:12:08 <lfm> hehe see ... evil
1951 2011-02-10 16:12:16 <gp5st1> lfm: stfu
1952 2011-02-10 16:12:21 <gp5st1> is he normally a troll?
1953 2011-02-10 16:12:25 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, it could be, yes
1954 2011-02-10 16:12:38 <UukGoblin> dunno, perhaps ;-]
1955 2011-02-10 16:12:39 <lfm> not always
1956 2011-02-10 16:12:40 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: have you done any dev of your system?
1957 2011-02-10 16:12:46 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, nope
1958 2011-02-10 16:12:51 <UukGoblin> there is no my system
1959 2011-02-10 16:12:58 <gp5st1> well
1960 2011-02-10 16:13:05 <gp5st1> the one you've been dealing with:)
1961 2011-02-10 16:13:21 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, I've been dealing with my ideas
1962 2011-02-10 16:13:23 <gp5st1> i call this one my system but x6763 and another guy have been more involved than myself
1963 2011-02-10 16:13:24 <UukGoblin> anyways
1964 2011-02-10 16:13:29 <UukGoblin> have you looked at ANDNA?
1965 2011-02-10 16:13:35 <gp5st1> reading about it
1966 2011-02-10 16:13:46 <UukGoblin> cause I have a vague feeling someone might have already solved the p2p dns problem a while ago
1967 2011-02-10 16:13:53 <UukGoblin> but I'm sceptical as to whether it works
1968 2011-02-10 16:14:57 <x6763> ANDNA is designed to work with Netsukuku - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsukuku
1969 2011-02-10 16:14:58 <gp5st1> it doesn't seem to solve the problem of multiple people publishing the same domain
1970 2011-02-10 16:15:30 <gp5st1> which is what using btc solves
1971 2011-02-10 16:15:47 <yebyen> god it's cold in my house
1972 2011-02-10 16:15:53 <Necr0s> "but I'm sceptical as to whether it works"
1973 2011-02-10 16:16:06 <Necr0s> ^ That's why software ought to have unit tests and functional tests.
1974 2011-02-10 16:16:34 <yebyen> sold
1975 2011-02-10 16:16:43 <UukGoblin> Necr0s, tests won't prove that software works
1976 2011-02-10 16:16:44 <EvanR-work> or be written in a way thats verifiable by a checker
1977 2011-02-10 16:16:53 <gp5st1> Necr0s: it's more of if the idea itself is even good, not the software
1978 2011-02-10 16:17:03 <UukGoblin> x6763, indeed it is
1979 2011-02-10 16:17:38 <Necr0s> Tests can prove that pieces of software behave in an expected way.
1980 2011-02-10 16:17:56 <Necr0s> But perhaps they are not the proper answer to this problem.
1981 2011-02-10 16:17:57 <gp5st1> Necr0s: yes, but that's not what he asked, and also you can only test for states you know
1982 2011-02-10 16:18:12 <gp5st1> you can't test what you don't know or think of;)
1983 2011-02-10 16:18:28 <Necr0s> That's what I get for entering a conversation in the middle.
1984 2011-02-10 16:18:36 <gp5st1> :-p
1985 2011-02-10 16:20:50 <UukGoblin> and can't even test for all the ones that you do know anyway
1986 2011-02-10 16:21:41 devon_hillard has joined
1987 2011-02-10 16:21:41 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
1988 2011-02-10 16:21:41 devon_hillard has joined
1989 2011-02-10 16:22:08 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, so, do I understand your idea correctly?: 1. create a private/public key pair, 2. create a DNS record and sign it, 3. Store in in a DHT, 4. pay for it with bitcoin and put the signature in the transaction
1990 2011-02-10 16:22:37 <UukGoblin> so to look up a domain a server will need to 1. look up the DHT for the record, 2. look up the block chain and verify that it's been paid for
1991 2011-02-10 16:22:48 <UukGoblin> right?
1992 2011-02-10 16:22:55 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: something like that. i'm writing a basic white paper right now. if you'll be on later i'll post it here (link to it)
1993 2011-02-10 16:23:08 <gp5st1> yes basically
1994 2011-02-10 16:23:09 <UukGoblin> cool
1995 2011-02-10 16:23:14 <UukGoblin> yeah, makes sense
1996 2011-02-10 16:23:22 <UukGoblin> just need to make sure the DHT won't lose your data
1997 2011-02-10 16:23:27 <gp5st1> it ads ~168chars to the tx/block
1998 2011-02-10 16:23:36 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: there are some fairly mature implementations out there
1999 2011-02-10 16:23:47 <gp5st1> we're not dead set on DHTs but they seem to be the best choice
2000 2011-02-10 16:24:19 <UukGoblin> I'm not sure about properties of DHTs, but the freenet one basically has the property that data can disappear from it
2001 2011-02-10 16:24:27 <UukGoblin> I believe torrent has the same?
2002 2011-02-10 16:24:59 <noagendamarket> should store them in tahoes lafs
2003 2011-02-10 16:25:04 <UukGoblin> I guess the domain owner could take care of re-inserting the data back into DHT if it disappears
2004 2011-02-10 16:25:12 <gp5st1> UukGoblin: it depends
2005 2011-02-10 16:25:13 <UukGoblin> or nachos
2006 2011-02-10 16:25:26 <gp5st1> we're also leaning towards not strick DHTs
2007 2011-02-10 16:25:30 <yebyen> reasonably that's not acceptable
2008 2011-02-10 16:25:43 <yebyen> well
2009 2011-02-10 16:25:44 <yebyen> hmm
2010 2011-02-10 16:25:45 <gp5st1> like someone could store the entire dns history
2011 2011-02-10 16:26:03 <gp5st1> and they'd be able to serve it and give it to more people and put it in the DHT
2012 2011-02-10 16:26:27 <yebyen> think if i can pay $11/yr i should get 11 seeds
2013 2011-02-10 16:26:36 <yebyen> and they should actively seek to maintain enough seeds in the network
2014 2011-02-10 16:26:40 <yebyen> and check each other
2015 2011-02-10 16:27:01 <yebyen> just for dns, but i shouldn't have to run the bitdns client on my bitdns nodes if i don't want to
2016 2011-02-10 16:27:14 <yebyen> just so that they can be found
2017 2011-02-10 16:27:23 <gp5st1> yeah
2018 2011-02-10 16:27:39 <yebyen> thats like godaddy telling their customers they have to run bind
2019 2011-02-10 16:27:41 <yebyen> *cough*
2020 2011-02-10 16:27:52 <UukGoblin> gp5st1, would there be something that'd convert your stuff into regular DNS?
2021 2011-02-10 16:28:03 <UukGoblin> would need to make a deal with TLD owners I guess?
2022 2011-02-10 16:28:19 <yebyen> i run my own bind with an irregular tld
2023 2011-02-10 16:28:24 <yebyen> on openvpn nodes
2024 2011-02-10 16:28:30 <gp5st1> it would be on the client side, for instance, some tlds or maybe non icann tlds would be queried from our network
2025 2011-02-10 16:28:43 <gp5st1> or an isp would do that
2026 2011-02-10 16:29:05 <x6763> UukGoblin: so far i've been assuming that the software would have a lightweight dns server that they could configure their network settings to use, or use someone else's dns server
2027 2011-02-10 16:29:46 <gp5st1> the big limit to that is it requires you to trust the person who you're using as your server
2028 2011-02-10 16:30:08 <UukGoblin> what I'm asking basically: will my grandma be able to type "mygrandson.btcdns" in her browser and get to my website?
2029 2011-02-10 16:30:22 <edcba> lol
2030 2011-02-10 16:30:23 <gp5st1> if her computer is running the client
2031 2011-02-10 16:30:24 <gp5st1> or isp
2032 2011-02-10 16:30:29 <UukGoblin> yeah
2033 2011-02-10 16:30:30 <UukGoblin> :-/
2034 2011-02-10 16:30:33 <edcba> or dns provider
2035 2011-02-10 16:30:36 <UukGoblin> so pretty much no
2036 2011-02-10 16:30:38 <gp5st1> yeah
2037 2011-02-10 16:30:42 Zarutian has joined
2038 2011-02-10 16:30:50 <UukGoblin> but yeah it's a harsh requirement I know
2039 2011-02-10 16:30:50 <edcba> hmm
2040 2011-02-10 16:30:56 <gp5st1> well imagine if the lightweight install was dead simple
2041 2011-02-10 16:31:05 <Diablo-D3> hey OneFixt
2042 2011-02-10 16:31:12 <gp5st1> like run the installer, you give her your ip address or something, and it's done
2043 2011-02-10 16:31:13 <Diablo-D3> I notice you dont list my miner in your thread
2044 2011-02-10 16:31:18 <gp5st1> she uses you as her dns portal
2045 2011-02-10 16:31:18 <edcba> wait wasn't there some proposition from icann or dunno whom allowing 'ppl' to buy tld ?
2046 2011-02-10 16:31:32 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: sorry, no offense! I just don't use it so I need to go look up the connection parameters
2047 2011-02-10 16:31:35 <gp5st1> edcba: yeah, canon owns .canon tld
2048 2011-02-10 16:31:35 <OneFixt> or have someone give them to me
2049 2011-02-10 16:31:54 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: same as m0, but its -o and -r
2050 2011-02-10 16:32:09 <Diablo-D3> instead of -o  and -p
2051 2011-02-10 16:32:42 <OneFixt> ok, I'll add it - thanks
2052 2011-02-10 16:32:43 <Diablo-D3> -p is password on my miner, not port
2053 2011-02-10 16:32:58 bk128 has joined
2054 2011-02-10 16:33:20 <noagendamarket> will this add extra time to confirmations ?
2055 2011-02-10 16:34:06 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: -u on your pool is target address? nice
2056 2011-02-10 16:34:21 <OneFixt> yep
2057 2011-02-10 16:34:28 <OneFixt> password doesn't actually matter, can pick anything
2058 2011-02-10 16:34:29 <Diablo-D3> password is always xyzzy or something?
2059 2011-02-10 16:34:31 <Diablo-D3> heh
2060 2011-02-10 16:34:39 <noagendamarket> If there are large tx fees in some and none in others generators will refuse to accept tx with no fee and bitdns will be accepted first before transactions
2061 2011-02-10 16:34:43 <OneFixt> you dont even need a password but some miners don't work properly without one
2062 2011-02-10 16:34:51 <Diablo-D3> mine would work without one
2063 2011-02-10 16:35:01 <OneFixt> as long as there's a : after the username
2064 2011-02-10 16:35:03 <Diablo-D3> it'll just use the default (which is useless, but hey)
2065 2011-02-10 16:35:12 <OneFixt> hey, that works =)
2066 2011-02-10 16:35:30 <Diablo-D3> hrm I just had a massively funny idea
2067 2011-02-10 16:35:38 <Diablo-D3> changing my miner to work on multiple pools
2068 2011-02-10 16:35:46 <OneFixt> at the same time?
2069 2011-02-10 16:35:50 <Diablo-D3> at the same time
2070 2011-02-10 16:35:50 <noagendamarket> hahah
2071 2011-02-10 16:35:52 <OneFixt> cute
2072 2011-02-10 16:36:06 <Diablo-D3> randomly select hosts on which to mine at getwork
2073 2011-02-10 16:36:11 <noagendamarket> multi miner
2074 2011-02-10 16:37:12 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2075 2011-02-10 16:37:38 MrCoin has joined
2076 2011-02-10 16:38:12 * Diablo-D3 starts two miners at once
2077 2011-02-10 16:39:17 <echelon> looks like the market took a tumble
2078 2011-02-10 16:39:24 <gwillen> Okay, I have a question, and I apologize if it is noob: Does every bitcoin node have to store the whole block-chain, monotonically increasing in size, for all time? (I see my node downloading it now...)
2079 2011-02-10 16:39:32 <Necr0s> After a rapid run-up.
2080 2011-02-10 16:39:38 <Necr0s> Someone sold a lot at market.
2081 2011-02-10 16:39:50 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: yes.
2082 2011-02-10 16:40:06 <gwillen> Isn't that going to make system become impractical to use once the chain gets large?
2083 2011-02-10 16:40:12 <Diablo-D3> yes and no
2084 2011-02-10 16:40:14 <noagendamarket> gwillen or you can use an online wallet such as mybitcoin
2085 2011-02-10 16:40:16 <Diablo-D3> the download code should be better
2086 2011-02-10 16:40:29 <Diablo-D3> for a lot of users, it doesnt max their internet connection out on download
2087 2011-02-10 16:40:32 <Diablo-D3> so download takes a long time
2088 2011-02-10 16:40:36 <gwillen> Sure, sure, but I mean
2089 2011-02-10 16:40:44 <Diablo-D3> you mean storage size?
2090 2011-02-10 16:40:46 <gwillen> suppose we use bitcoins for thousands of years in the future
2091 2011-02-10 16:40:48 <gwillen> right
2092 2011-02-10 16:40:49 <Necr0s> I think there are ways to "prune" the dataset to remove stale data.
2093 2011-02-10 16:40:59 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: lets say the whole banking industry used bitcoin
2094 2011-02-10 16:41:01 <gwillen> okay, if pruning can be done without breaking the protocol, that's great
2095 2011-02-10 16:41:04 <gwillen> Diablo-D3: right
2096 2011-02-10 16:41:06 <Diablo-D3> and most people didnt have nodes, their banks did
2097 2011-02-10 16:41:11 <gwillen> well, okay fine
2098 2011-02-10 16:41:12 <cosurgi> just release a new client, which treats some recent block as a starting blocks.
2099 2011-02-10 16:41:19 <Diablo-D3> at the current rate of consumption, I'd use a few TB a year
2100 2011-02-10 16:41:24 <gwillen> hmm
2101 2011-02-10 16:41:25 <Diablo-D3> I have a 2TB drive on my desk.
2102 2011-02-10 16:41:36 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: can i put server address+port as a parameter in your miner?
2103 2011-02-10 16:41:38 <gwillen> well, we can presume the rate of consumption will increase
2104 2011-02-10 16:41:42 <gwillen> but a few TB a year is not that bad
2105 2011-02-10 16:41:46 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: -o and -r
2106 2011-02-10 16:41:47 <cosurgi> currently I wouldn't accept more than 500MB for full block chain.
2107 2011-02-10 16:41:55 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: it doesnt accepy url form yet
2108 2011-02-10 16:41:58 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2109 2011-02-10 16:42:00 <gwillen> so as long as you can store it on disk, I guess it's not absurd
2110 2011-02-10 16:42:08 <Necr0s> For myself, my internet connection sucks, so if I ever start a new node without the block chain, I hack my router to force it to connect to my existing local node and get the block chain from it.
2111 2011-02-10 16:42:09 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: interbank transfers really arent that spammy
2112 2011-02-10 16:42:21 <gwillen> Diablo-D3: ohh, I see what you're saying
2113 2011-02-10 16:42:26 MrCoin has joined
2114 2011-02-10 16:42:28 <OneFixt> DiabloMiner-YourOS.sh -u ADDRESS -p XYZZY -o bitpenny.dyndns.biz -p 8332
2115 2011-02-10 16:42:30 <OneFixt> look right?
2116 2011-02-10 16:42:32 <afed> there's probably nothing wrong with taking a hash of the last 100,000 blocks and starting from that
2117 2011-02-10 16:42:39 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: no, its -r not -p
2118 2011-02-10 16:42:40 <gwillen> Diablo-D3: that seems to break the intent of the system, though, in terms of a free and open online currency
2119 2011-02-10 16:42:43 <Necr0s> I tried just copying the files, and it was quite unhappy about that.
2120 2011-02-10 16:42:45 <OneFixt> crap, thank you =)
2121 2011-02-10 16:43:00 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: well, most people DONT want to run a node
2122 2011-02-10 16:43:01 <gwillen> afed: sure, if the current protocol will let you get away with something like that
2123 2011-02-10 16:43:01 <noagendamarket> gwillen why is that ?
2124 2011-02-10 16:43:15 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: in the real world, anyone who runs a node is also a bank
2125 2011-02-10 16:43:23 <gwillen> noagendamarket: well I mean, if I have to deal with a bank every time I want to transact BTC, I may as well just transact USD instead
2126 2011-02-10 16:43:24 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: that means everyone in here is a 1 user bank.
2127 2011-02-10 16:43:47 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: btw, you DO deal with a bank everytime you transact
2128 2011-02-10 16:43:49 <gwillen> anyway, the thing I'm most curious about is whether there's any feasible way to trim or summarize the chain, which is compatible with the existing protocol
2129 2011-02-10 16:43:52 <Diablo-D3> pull a credit card, swipe it
2130 2011-02-10 16:44:08 <gwillen> obviously it would be possible to start the chain over, but
2131 2011-02-10 16:44:12 <Diablo-D3> you just dealt with two banks, a merchant transaction agent, and probably atleast two or three other companies
2132 2011-02-10 16:44:16 <gwillen> with millions of USD of value in it, nobody will be willing to do that
2133 2011-02-10 16:44:26 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is actually simpler
2134 2011-02-10 16:44:33 <gwillen> so I'm curious whether the existing chain, with the existing protocol, will be summarizable or not
2135 2011-02-10 16:44:43 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: its not
2136 2011-02-10 16:45:04 <Diablo-D3> the more blocks you have, the more you can be sure your chain copy is legit... and no one does anything in banking if they're not over 100% sure.
2137 2011-02-10 16:45:06 <afed> but after a while the first millions of blocks will be uninteresting to anyone unless they want to examine the historical record of anonymous transactions
2138 2011-02-10 16:45:14 <Diablo-D3> well yes
2139 2011-02-10 16:45:16 <gwillen> right
2140 2011-02-10 16:45:26 <gwillen> so the question is, can you feasibly run a node without storing all o them
2141 2011-02-10 16:45:29 <gwillen> the answer seems to be yes
2142 2011-02-10 16:45:29 <Diablo-D3> but if we all have, say, 50TB ipods and gigabit internet
2143 2011-02-10 16:45:32 <gwillen> in which case, great
2144 2011-02-10 16:45:39 <Diablo-D3> whats a few TB of data a year.
2145 2011-02-10 16:45:51 <Diablo-D3> theres no way to solve this problem until we actually get there
2146 2011-02-10 16:45:55 <gwillen> if the system gets very popular, you also have to start worrying about stuff like the DNS guy upthread
2147 2011-02-10 16:45:57 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin hasnt, and wont for years
2148 2011-02-10 16:46:08 <gwillen> i.e. people will start using the bitcoin chain for durable storage of signatures on things
2149 2011-02-10 16:46:17 <gwillen> which will inflate the rate of increase in size
2150 2011-02-10 16:46:18 <Diablo-D3> gwillen: yes, which is very interesting
2151 2011-02-10 16:46:21 <afed> i'm not saying make them unavailable, but most people don't need to download them
2152 2011-02-10 16:46:22 <gwillen> yeah, it really is
2153 2011-02-10 16:46:28 <Diablo-D3> because its using the chain of work for... other chain of worky things
2154 2011-02-10 16:46:30 <afed> a hash of all of those blocks could substitute, for continuing the chain
2155 2011-02-10 16:46:35 <Diablo-D3> afed: well
2156 2011-02-10 16:46:39 <Diablo-D3> the client DOES know certain blocks
2157 2011-02-10 16:46:43 <Diablo-D3> it has them hard coded in the source
2158 2011-02-10 16:46:49 <afed> yeah the first block
2159 2011-02-10 16:46:54 <Diablo-D3> no, it has others now
2160 2011-02-10 16:47:00 <afed> oh yeah?
2161 2011-02-10 16:47:01 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: would you like it to be called DiabloMiner or Diablo-D3's miner?
2162 2011-02-10 16:47:06 <afed> i did not know
2163 2011-02-10 16:47:13 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: its propername is DiabloMiner
2164 2011-02-10 16:47:17 <gwillen> (how many total blocks are there right now? Also, what other blocks are hardcoded, out of curiosty?)
2165 2011-02-10 16:47:22 <OneFixt> kk
2166 2011-02-10 16:47:29 <afed> i know it takes a while to start up a new client
2167 2011-02-10 16:47:35 <afed> that is not going to get less painful
2168 2011-02-10 16:47:35 <Diablo-D3> gwillen:     "blocks" : 107293,
2169 2011-02-10 16:47:50 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure which ones are hardcoded
2170 2011-02-10 16:47:54 <noagendamarket> how much crap do you have to go through to get a bank account ?
2171 2011-02-10 16:47:56 <afed> people will close the program and delete the software if it takes too long
2172 2011-02-10 16:47:57 <TD> afed: actually it can be sped up a lot for the case where you don't want to mine
2173 2011-02-10 16:47:58 <gwillen> oh okay, I'm already 1/3 o the way there then ;-)
2174 2011-02-10 16:48:02 <Diablo-D3> afed: I agree
2175 2011-02-10 16:48:04 <Diablo-D3> but the issue is
2176 2011-02-10 16:48:09 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin doesnt "torrent" the block list
2177 2011-02-10 16:48:13 <TD> afed: and somebody could distribute the client with the block chain as part of the initial download. they just haven't done so.
2178 2011-02-10 16:48:23 <afed> ok
2179 2011-02-10 16:48:24 <gwillen> I mean, it's not really the startup time I'm worried about, it's the storage volume
2180 2011-02-10 16:48:35 <gwillen> I know TB hard drives are cheap, but people don't really want to waste a TB of storage on bitcoins
2181 2011-02-10 16:48:41 <TD> there are also unimplemented optimizations that can reduce storage requirements. but 1T hard disks are cheap
2182 2011-02-10 16:48:46 <Diablo-D3> the first 67000 blocks, zipped, is 34 megs
2183 2011-02-10 16:48:49 <TD> "people" won't be running nodes in the long term
2184 2011-02-10 16:48:52 <gwillen> TD: oh, interesting -- are the optimizations documented?
2185 2011-02-10 16:48:53 <Diablo-D3> its _really small_
2186 2011-02-10 16:49:00 <TD> they're in the technical paper
2187 2011-02-10 16:49:07 <gwillen> oh okay, cool
2188 2011-02-10 16:49:10 <gwillen> I should go reread that
2189 2011-02-10 16:49:10 <gp5st1> why won't people? you don't have to generate blocks to run a node
2190 2011-02-10 16:49:22 <TD> because as transaction volume increases the cost of running a node also increases
2191 2011-02-10 16:49:27 <Diablo-D3> well, in the future
2192 2011-02-10 16:49:34 <Diablo-D3> most people wont run personal clients
2193 2011-02-10 16:49:38 <TD> merchants will do it, rich hobbyists might, but you won't get people running full blown nodes on their laptops in future
2194 2011-02-10 16:49:40 <TD> yeah
2195 2011-02-10 16:49:41 <Diablo-D3> they're use wallet services (ie, paypal clones)
2196 2011-02-10 16:49:46 <gp5st1> TD: why? if you're not generating blocks….
2197 2011-02-10 16:49:50 <Diablo-D3> so what I said earlier will eventually hold true
2198 2011-02-10 16:49:55 <Diablo-D3> only banks will have nodes
2199 2011-02-10 16:50:05 <Diablo-D3> private individuals wont
2200 2011-02-10 16:50:08 <TD> gp5st1: you still have to receive and process every transaction
2201 2011-02-10 16:50:10 <Diablo-D3> not that they COULDNT
2202 2011-02-10 16:50:14 <Diablo-D3> but who the fuck wants to
2203 2011-02-10 16:50:14 <TD> which is quite cpu and iop intensive
2204 2011-02-10 16:50:26 <Diablo-D3> TD: yeah, but banks compress transactions
2205 2011-02-10 16:50:39 <Diablo-D3> they dont send a brinks truck out to send $5.
2206 2011-02-10 16:50:39 <gp5st1> TD hmm, i thought if you weren't generating blocks you would simply get all the blocks from others
2207 2011-02-10 16:50:48 <TD> i suspect it'll be more than just banks. but we'll see how it evolves.
2208 2011-02-10 16:50:58 <Diablo-D3> they send a brinks truck to transact large amounts of cash
2209 2011-02-10 16:51:05 <TD> gp5st1: you still have to verify the blocks
2210 2011-02-10 16:51:07 <Diablo-D3> well, it'll be big merchants too
2211 2011-02-10 16:51:16 <Diablo-D3> like the amazons and wallmarts would
2212 2011-02-10 16:51:17 <TD> gp5st1: it's assumed that you might be connected to one or more bad nodes
2213 2011-02-10 16:51:25 <Diablo-D3> or, really, anyone who wants to do it
2214 2011-02-10 16:51:33 <TD> gp5st1: so you have to check the data nodes send you to ensure it makes sense. that's slow.
2215 2011-02-10 16:51:39 <Diablo-D3> if you wanna throw another 50TB drive in your server in 2020 every few years
2216 2011-02-10 16:51:40 <Diablo-D3> it works
2217 2011-02-10 16:51:49 <TD> gp5st1: probably the current software can do 50 transactions/sec/core
2218 2011-02-10 16:51:55 <TD> can be improved
2219 2011-02-10 16:52:03 <Necr0s> Kind of like how anyone can run their own nameserver, but few people do.
2220 2011-02-10 16:52:07 <Diablo-D3> well
2221 2011-02-10 16:52:10 <Diablo-D3> it already is improved
2222 2011-02-10 16:52:14 <Diablo-D3> remember, we're gpu mining
2223 2011-02-10 16:52:25 <TD> i'm not discussing mining. i mean the verification.
2224 2011-02-10 16:52:34 <TD> checking ECDSA signatures
2225 2011-02-10 16:52:35 <Diablo-D3> we'd do the verification on gpus too eventually
2226 2011-02-10 16:52:56 <Diablo-D3> infact, eventually we wont have gpus
2227 2011-02-10 16:52:56 <TD> i'm not sure it's possible to get a good speedup that way, but fortunately there are other (cpu based) techniques
2228 2011-02-10 16:53:02 <Diablo-D3> it'll be part of the cpu
2229 2011-02-10 16:53:07 <bulletbill> is RPC 'move' function instant or is it basically a wrapper around sendtoaddress?
2230 2011-02-10 16:53:26 <Diablo-D3> TD: well, we'd be verifying multiple signatures concurrently
2231 2011-02-10 16:53:30 <Diablo-D3> TD: so we win
2232 2011-02-10 16:53:47 <Diablo-D3> TD: it takes less than a ms to execute a blank kernel round trip
2233 2011-02-10 16:53:54 <Diablo-D3> so its effectively free
2234 2011-02-10 16:54:17 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2235 2011-02-10 16:54:22 <Necr0s> urmom is effectively free
2236 2011-02-10 16:54:57 <TD> yeah but is there an implementation of the algorithm that fits in the constraints GPUs have?
2237 2011-02-10 16:55:09 <TD> maybe there is. i don't keep up with what they allow these days
2238 2011-02-10 16:57:33 <OneFixt> jgarzik: ping
2239 2011-02-10 16:58:08 <OneFixt> or anyone familiar with jgarzik's miner:
2240 2011-02-10 16:58:18 <OneFixt> I have the following connection parameters listed:
2241 2011-02-10 16:58:20 <OneFixt> minerd --url http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy
2242 2011-02-10 16:58:33 <OneFixt> will it work if i remove the "http://"?
2243 2011-02-10 16:59:21 lumos has joined
2244 2011-02-10 17:01:26 <Necr0s> Seems like it would be easy enough to try, no?
2245 2011-02-10 17:01:56 <bulletbill> gavinandresen: did anyone respond to your call for a windows build of 3.20?
2246 2011-02-10 17:03:33 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2247 2011-02-10 17:03:39 brunner has joined
2248 2011-02-10 17:05:01 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2249 2011-02-10 17:09:04 fahadsadah has quit (Excess Flood)
2250 2011-02-10 17:12:23 BlueMatt has joined
2251 2011-02-10 17:13:51 slush has joined
2252 2011-02-10 17:18:33 alystair has joined
2253 2011-02-10 17:20:29 fahadsadah has joined
2254 2011-02-10 17:25:09 <nanotube> OneFixt: no it won't. :)
2255 2011-02-10 17:25:13 <nanotube> (iirc)
2256 2011-02-10 17:25:17 <OneFixt> hmm
2257 2011-02-10 17:25:25 <OneFixt> will it work with =?
2258 2011-02-10 17:25:37 <OneFixt> --url=http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass=1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy
2259 2011-02-10 17:25:39 <nanotube> when i was testing bitpenny, i tried without http first, and it failed, iirc.
2260 2011-02-10 17:25:47 <nanotube> OneFixt: well let me look at --help :)
2261 2011-02-10 17:25:47 <OneFixt> ah
2262 2011-02-10 17:25:52 <OneFixt> thanks =)
2263 2011-02-10 17:26:16 <nanotube> will test with =
2264 2011-02-10 17:26:38 <nanotube> yes, works with =
2265 2011-02-10 17:27:15 altamic has joined
2266 2011-02-10 17:27:15 altamic has quit (Changing host)
2267 2011-02-10 17:27:15 altamic has joined
2268 2011-02-10 17:27:26 <nanotube> and confirmed, fails without http://
2269 2011-02-10 17:27:50 <OneFixt> nanotube: thanks!
2270 2011-02-10 17:28:13 <nanotube> np :)
2271 2011-02-10 17:29:31 <kupo> what is bitpebby?
2272 2011-02-10 17:29:36 <kupo> sorry bitpenny
2273 2011-02-10 17:31:44 <nanotube> kupo: a mining pool
2274 2011-02-10 17:31:47 <nanotube> with insta-payout
2275 2011-02-10 17:31:54 <nanotube> bitpenny.com
2276 2011-02-10 17:31:58 <Diablo-D3> 336 + 418 = 754
2277 2011-02-10 17:31:59 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2278 2011-02-10 17:32:00 <Diablo-D3> yay
2279 2011-02-10 17:32:07 <Diablo-D3> running two miners at once doesnt decrease performance
2280 2011-02-10 17:32:41 <presence> geeting 330M on 5870 with poclbm -f 5 -w 128 -v with 11.1 and sdk 2.3
2281 2011-02-10 17:33:04 <Diablo-D3> presence: you're doing it wrong
2282 2011-02-10 17:33:04 <kupo> nanotube: oh ok
2283 2011-02-10 17:33:10 <kupo> I should probably join that
2284 2011-02-10 17:33:12 <Diablo-D3> presence: 10.11 + 2.1, -f 1 -w 64
2285 2011-02-10 17:33:21 <presence> it wont run with 10.11 + 2.1
2286 2011-02-10 17:33:23 <presence> it cores
2287 2011-02-10 17:33:33 <Diablo-D3> on a _58_70?
2288 2011-02-10 17:33:58 <Diablo-D3> you're full of shit, what OS are you on?
2289 2011-02-10 17:34:49 <nanotube> kupo: give it a try. :)
2290 2011-02-10 17:35:08 <presence> 5870
2291 2011-02-10 17:35:15 <presence> windows 7 x64
2292 2011-02-10 17:35:17 <presence> and
2293 2011-02-10 17:35:17 <kupo> nanotube: I fear I'll have to, I've never generated since about a year ago
2294 2011-02-10 17:35:23 <kupo> and my hw is nothing special
2295 2011-02-10 17:35:37 <presence> -f5 -w128 gives me 5M/sec more than -f1 -w 64 with current drivers
2296 2011-02-10 17:35:37 <nanotube> heh yea, if you don't have a fancy box... pool is the best bet.
2297 2011-02-10 17:35:37 <Diablo-D3> presence: use the ATI uninstaller app booted into safe mode as administrator
2298 2011-02-10 17:35:47 <Diablo-D3> and no, -f1 will get it faster
2299 2011-02-10 17:35:47 <presence> I clean installed
2300 2011-02-10 17:35:48 <nanotube> though if you pay for electricity... best bet is actually buying coin. :)
2301 2011-02-10 17:35:58 <nanotube> cuz you'll spend more for the electricity.
2302 2011-02-10 17:36:02 <presence> Im just relaying the results, I dont know the results are better
2303 2011-02-10 17:36:04 <nanotube> if doing cpu mining
2304 2011-02-10 17:36:32 <presence> I dont know WHY the results are better
2305 2011-02-10 17:37:47 <presence> but unless the khash/s value is wrong, its better
2306 2011-02-10 17:37:50 <Diablo-D3> presence: something is very wrong with your windows install
2307 2011-02-10 17:37:58 <Diablo-D3> or you're doing something wrong
2308 2011-02-10 17:38:19 altamic_ has joined
2309 2011-02-10 17:38:19 altamic_ has quit (Changing host)
2310 2011-02-10 17:38:19 altamic_ has joined
2311 2011-02-10 17:38:34 <presence> I installed from no OS to mining both with 10.11 and 11.1 and with sdk 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3
2312 2011-02-10 17:38:35 <cosurgi> but it's 2.3 sdk
2313 2011-02-10 17:38:51 <presence> couldnt get poclbm to run with anything but 2.3, gave me a bunch of pragma errors
2314 2011-02-10 17:38:51 <cosurgi> use debian. it works
2315 2011-02-10 17:39:15 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2316 2011-02-10 17:39:15 altamic_ is now known as altamic
2317 2011-02-10 17:39:27 <presence> your miner performed best, but the gui was so lagged I couldnt retain it.
2318 2011-02-10 17:39:52 <presence> Im at 2Mhash/s less with this arrangement
2319 2011-02-10 17:40:12 <presence> if it was hosed, wouldnt I get worse results?
2320 2011-02-10 17:41:27 <Diablo-D3> presence: turn -f UP to retain UI performance
2321 2011-02-10 17:41:45 <presence> when I turned -f up I got much worse khash
2322 2011-02-10 17:41:48 <Diablo-D3> which catalyst version did you install? both 10.11 and 10.12 were offered WITH the sdk in the box
2323 2011-02-10 17:42:10 <Diablo-D3> worse khash? maybe. but this is what you trade to increase UI responsiveness
2324 2011-02-10 17:42:18 <presence> I tried both with and without the bundled SDK
2325 2011-02-10 17:42:43 <Diablo-D3> if you're supplying your own SDK, you use WITHOUT
2326 2011-02-10 17:42:54 <presence> I understand
2327 2011-02-10 17:43:05 <presence> I downloaded the drivers with and without the bundled SDK
2328 2011-02-10 17:43:18 <Diablo-D3> something is wrong with your windows install
2329 2011-02-10 17:43:18 <presence> I did about 20 iterations of builds to find the optimal
2330 2011-02-10 17:43:24 <Diablo-D3> if it was my box, I'd reinstall windows altogether
2331 2011-02-10 17:43:33 <presence> Thats just it
2332 2011-02-10 17:43:33 <Diablo-D3> infact, I wouldnt reinstall windows, I'd install linux
2333 2011-02-10 17:43:36 <presence> I reinstalled windows
2334 2011-02-10 17:43:42 <presence> cant, its also my game machine
2335 2011-02-10 17:43:48 <Diablo-D3> you reinstalled it from absolute scratch, including reformatting the drive?
2336 2011-02-10 17:43:53 <presence> its not dedicated, or I would install linux
2337 2011-02-10 17:44:06 <presence> diablo: yes, I did.  From win7 x-64 media
2338 2011-02-10 17:44:10 <Diablo-D3> I hate windows.
2339 2011-02-10 17:44:10 <presence> ghosted the install
2340 2011-02-10 17:44:21 <presence> and then rebuilt over and over until I got the results.
2341 2011-02-10 17:44:23 <Diablo-D3> thats just nonsensical
2342 2011-02-10 17:44:33 <Diablo-D3> if I install 10.11 and 2.1, I expect the fucking thing to work
2343 2011-02-10 17:44:35 <presence> Im not fond of windows
2344 2011-02-10 17:44:44 <Diablo-D3> and Im not blaming ATI here, this is purely microsoft's fault
2345 2011-02-10 17:44:49 <presence> diablo: yours worked with 10.11 and 2.1, poclbm would not.
2346 2011-02-10 17:44:59 <Diablo-D3> poclbm doesnt do anything different than mine
2347 2011-02-10 17:45:14 <presence> I think the problem is java on win
2348 2011-02-10 17:45:14 <Diablo-D3> and 99.9% of users use 2.1 and less than 11.1
2349 2011-02-10 17:45:16 <presence> with yours
2350 2011-02-10 17:45:25 <Diablo-D3> I doubt it
2351 2011-02-10 17:45:38 <Diablo-D3> if java was broken, my miner wouldnt even start
2352 2011-02-10 17:45:52 <presence> *shrug* its running at 330M with -f 5 -w 128, get 220 with -w 64
2353 2011-02-10 17:46:01 <presence> -f 1 doesnt seem to make any difference
2354 2011-02-10 17:46:13 dwdollar has left ()
2355 2011-02-10 17:46:14 <Diablo-D3> -w on 2.3 works differently because they broke it
2356 2011-02-10 17:46:23 <Diablo-D3> on 2.2 as well
2357 2011-02-10 17:46:35 <presence> but, the thing is...poclbm was throwing all kinds of python errors without 2.3
2358 2011-02-10 17:46:37 <Diablo-D3> -w 128 MAY be more optimum on 2.2/2.3, but its because its a broken sdk
2359 2011-02-10 17:46:55 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2360 2011-02-10 17:46:56 <Diablo-D3> weird, poclbm doesnt use opencl 1.1 features
2361 2011-02-10 17:46:57 <presence> 2.3 wouldnt work with 10.11 or 10.12
2362 2011-02-10 17:46:57 andrew12 has joined
2363 2011-02-10 17:47:17 <Diablo-D3> and m0 only develops with and for 2.1
2364 2011-02-10 17:47:39 <presence> it was tossing pyopencl errors
2365 2011-02-10 17:47:48 <presence> now maybe its just his binary build...I dont know.
2366 2011-02-10 17:47:54 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if the build of pyopencl he was using was broken
2367 2011-02-10 17:47:56 <presence> Windows really limits what you can do here.
2368 2011-02-10 17:48:01 <Diablo-D3> because this obviously doesnt happen on linux
2369 2011-02-10 17:48:26 <presence> its 100% likely
2370 2011-02-10 17:48:39 <Diablo-D3> what a headache.
2371 2011-02-10 17:48:45 <presence> but as I couldnt fix it, I just had to move on.
2372 2011-02-10 17:49:09 <presence> if I had a box to dedicate, it would be different
2373 2011-02-10 17:49:34 <presence> I would like to dedicate my VM box...but for whatever reason (mb support I am guessing), I cant pass pci through in vmware esxi
2374 2011-02-10 17:50:18 <Diablo-D3> you cant reliably pass any pci device that DMAs back to ram
2375 2011-02-10 17:50:19 <kupo> what other bitpools exist besides bitpenny?
2376 2011-02-10 17:50:27 <Diablo-D3> kupo: slush's
2377 2011-02-10 17:50:42 <presence> diablo: I had no issues doing it with my box at the office
2378 2011-02-10 17:50:47 <presence> ran perfectly
2379 2011-02-10 17:50:50 <Diablo-D3> presence: some works, some doesnt
2380 2011-02-10 17:51:07 <presence> its a matter of which pci board, which mb, and which prox
2381 2011-02-10 17:51:29 <Diablo-D3> actually, it may just be if the mobo has a iommu or not
2382 2011-02-10 17:51:51 <Diablo-D3> few boxes that have hardware vt also have an iommu
2383 2011-02-10 17:52:43 <kupo> Diablo-D3: any opinions?
2384 2011-02-10 17:52:54 <Diablo-D3> kupo: slush's has been the only one, really
2385 2011-02-10 17:53:00 <Diablo-D3> there was one before slush's but no one used it
2386 2011-02-10 17:53:11 <Diablo-D3> so all the pool users in here are on slush's
2387 2011-02-10 17:53:13 <kupo> ok
2388 2011-02-10 17:53:44 <slush> ,,pool
2389 2011-02-10 17:53:44 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2390 2011-02-10 17:53:45 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|wow, my pc definitely did a good job with the cpu mining: http://vps.andrew12.net/bitcoin-js-remote/
2391 2011-02-10 17:53:47 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|(testnet though)
2392 2011-02-10 17:53:48 <slush> ehrrm
2393 2011-02-10 17:54:27 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|hmm, can someone find the testnet faucet address?
2394 2011-02-10 17:54:36 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|*.appspot.com is blocked at school
2395 2011-02-10 17:54:58 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|because people can potentially run anonymizers on it
2396 2011-02-10 17:55:29 <slush> andrew12 if you mean bitcoin address: 15VjRaDX9zpbA8LVnbrCAFzrVzN7ixHNsC
2397 2011-02-10 17:55:35 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|no, testnet address
2398 2011-02-10 17:55:38 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|i think it's mh7iEumGX2WXLWT9aYEovDLjMqudLQwJS2
2399 2011-02-10 17:55:39 <slush> oh, sorry
2400 2011-02-10 17:55:41 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2401 2011-02-10 17:55:43 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|but i'm not sure
2402 2011-02-10 17:55:51 <Diablo-D3> presence: still, I dont like your machine
2403 2011-02-10 17:55:51 <presence> kupo: slush also is a reasonable guy.
2404 2011-02-10 17:56:02 <presence> diablo: I wish I could fix it so you would.
2405 2011-02-10 17:56:11 <presence> But under the circumstances, this is the optimal setup
2406 2011-02-10 17:56:17 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2407 2011-02-10 17:56:30 <presence> Im not 100% happy about it myself.
2408 2011-02-10 17:56:47 <GeorgeJ> slush, i'm trying to setup a small private pool mining server, i would like to ask you some stuff about your server if thats cool
2409 2011-02-10 17:56:51 <Diablo-D3> presence: what card and what rate?
2410 2011-02-10 17:57:01 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|just sent 600 to the testnet faucet. \o/
2411 2011-02-10 17:57:08 <presence> Im using a 5870 and getting ~330Mhash/sec
2412 2011-02-10 17:57:36 <OneFixt> Is there any kind of patch which allows cleaning up "move" command history?
2413 2011-02-10 17:57:41 <GeorgeJ> is your server basicaly a proxy to bitcoind or does it also implement bitcoind
2414 2011-02-10 17:57:50 <Diablo-D3> presence: stock speeds?
2415 2011-02-10 17:57:51 <presence> it actually ran about 3M/s better in winxp sp3, but I couldnt keep it, had to go 64bit due to the ram limit
2416 2011-02-10 17:58:06 <presence> stock, yeah
2417 2011-02-10 17:58:13 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|GeorgeJ: if it's just one you're running for your own computers and maybe some friends, you can just do -rpcallowip=* on your bitcoind and tell your friends your rpcuser and rpcpass
2418 2011-02-10 17:58:15 <presence> 77deg
2419 2011-02-10 17:58:16 <Diablo-D3> presence: hmm, meh, thats good enough
2420 2011-02-10 17:58:32 <Diablo-D3> presence: you sure its at 850mhz?
2421 2011-02-10 17:58:38 <presence> yeah 850
2422 2011-02-10 17:58:45 <presence> I could go to 890 without a problem
2423 2011-02-10 17:58:49 <Diablo-D3> huh
2424 2011-02-10 17:58:52 <presence> but I didnt wanna burn the card up
2425 2011-02-10 17:58:54 <Diablo-D3> thats not bad at all really
2426 2011-02-10 17:59:15 <Diablo-D3> it used to be only ~315 on a 5870/850
2427 2011-02-10 17:59:22 <cosurgi> slush: 55 GHash/s !
2428 2011-02-10 17:59:34 <presence> I had to stop jacking with it and get mining
2429 2011-02-10 17:59:38 <presence> so I just went with this
2430 2011-02-10 17:59:43 <molecular> 58.5 Ghash/s
2431 2011-02-10 17:59:54 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|;;bc,polstats
2432 2011-02-10 17:59:54 <gribble> Error: "bc,polstats" is not a valid command.
2433 2011-02-10 17:59:57 <molecular> holy moly, some big players must've joined
2434 2011-02-10 18:00:00 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|;;bc,poolstats
2435 2011-02-10 18:00:00 <gribble> {"active_workers": 447, "ghashes_ps": "59.945", "getwork_ps": 161}
2436 2011-02-10 18:00:10 <cosurgi> it just went up
2437 2011-02-10 18:00:18 <presence> Ill put my gtx-260x2 back up when the new PSU come sin
2438 2011-02-10 18:00:32 <cosurgi> come my PSU, sin with me!
2439 2011-02-10 18:00:53 <Diablo-D3> presence: I think under 10.11 + 2.1 you'd get ~330 under Linux
2440 2011-02-10 18:00:56 <Diablo-D3> so maybe it doesnt matter
2441 2011-02-10 18:01:06 <presence> I would love to run linux
2442 2011-02-10 18:01:07 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|i should make something to graph the poolstats ;)
2443 2011-02-10 18:01:10 <presence> I am a unix guy
2444 2011-02-10 18:01:22 <presence> BUT, I also enjoy gaming, and unix, well just doesnt have the choices
2445 2011-02-10 18:01:26 <GeorgeJ> andrew12|school: i got about 10 people interested in helping with mining, and I would like to split the reward based on how much they have contributed, i'm also trying to learn abit about getwork
2446 2011-02-10 18:02:01 <randipan> slush: 85 GHash/s
2447 2011-02-10 18:02:03 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|GeorgeJ: you could just have them all join one of the other pools. :P
2448 2011-02-10 18:02:09 gavinandresen has left ()
2449 2011-02-10 18:02:14 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|you'll get the same amount of money, just smaller bits more quickly.
2450 2011-02-10 18:02:51 <GeorgeJ> andrew12|school: I'm sorry, but thats not really what I'm interested in
2451 2011-02-10 18:03:01 dwdollar1 has joined
2452 2011-02-10 18:03:38 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|I see
2453 2011-02-10 18:03:41 hoss has joined
2454 2011-02-10 18:04:04 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|Network hashrate: 232.51 Ghash/s
2455 2011-02-10 18:04:25 <Syke> I'm running my 5870s under Linux clocked at 900 = 642 MH/s
2456 2011-02-10 18:04:47 <GeorgeJ> The only thing I've had a chance to look at is the open source python mining pool server(which is more of a proxy to bitcoind), wich also integrates some ACL and counting shares
2457 2011-02-10 18:05:03 <Diablo-D3> presence: I game under linux
2458 2011-02-10 18:05:11 <Syke> sorry, that's 342
2459 2011-02-10 18:05:13 <molecular> slush 68.8 Gh/s
2460 2011-02-10 18:05:16 <molecular> what the...
2461 2011-02-10 18:05:25 hoss has left ()
2462 2011-02-10 18:05:36 <cosurgi> omg.
2463 2011-02-10 18:05:41 <cosurgi> slush: what's going on?
2464 2011-02-10 18:05:44 <molecular> if this goes beyond 100Gh/s I'm getting nervois
2465 2011-02-10 18:05:54 <cosurgi> or someone hacked....... :/
2466 2011-02-10 18:05:56 <molecular> might be some mismeasurement...
2467 2011-02-10 18:06:05 <molecular> he's fiddling with that stuff after all ;)
2468 2011-02-10 18:06:09 <GeorgeJ> I was just wondering if slush's server integrates bitcoind into itself, or is also a kind of proxy to bitcoind
2469 2011-02-10 18:06:33 <cosurgi> if it goes above total mining capacity Network hashrate 231.17 Ghash/s, it must be a bug
2470 2011-02-10 18:06:44 <andrew12> school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|afk
2471 2011-02-10 18:06:47 <cosurgi> he isn't fiddling right now.
2472 2011-02-10 18:07:00 andrew12 has quit (school!401a4b7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.122|Quit: Page closed)
2473 2011-02-10 18:07:02 <cosurgi> he would be on irc, excited about this peak hashrate.
2474 2011-02-10 18:07:06 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2475 2011-02-10 18:07:19 <cosurgi> be it due to bug, or due to ArtForz doing jokes.
2476 2011-02-10 18:07:22 genjix has joined
2477 2011-02-10 18:07:26 <molecular> yeah, likely ;)
2478 2011-02-10 18:07:39 <molecular> some big dude might be having some fun
2479 2011-02-10 18:07:41 devrandom has joined
2480 2011-02-10 18:07:50 <cosurgi> now it's back 44
2481 2011-02-10 18:07:51 <molecular> maybe ArtForz is checking his silicon on the pool
2482 2011-02-10 18:08:43 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2483 2011-02-10 18:11:16 <cosurgi> 500 Internal Server Error
2484 2011-02-10 18:11:19 <cosurgi> ;;poolstats
2485 2011-02-10 18:11:19 <gribble> Error: "poolstats" is not a valid command.
2486 2011-02-10 18:11:33 <cosurgi> ;;bc,poolstats
2487 2011-02-10 18:11:34 <gribble> {"active_workers": 450, "ghashes_ps": "38.613", "getwork_ps": 116}
2488 2011-02-10 18:12:05 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2489 2011-02-10 18:13:20 molecular has joined
2490 2011-02-10 18:16:29 dishwara has joined
2491 2011-02-10 18:19:16 <Diablo-D3> heh
2492 2011-02-10 18:19:22 <Diablo-D3> ls ~ now fits in two columns
2493 2011-02-10 18:19:25 * Diablo-D3 cleaned some shit out
2494 2011-02-10 18:19:49 <dishwara> hi Diablo-D3
2495 2011-02-10 18:20:16 <dishwara> for mining using graphics card do i need open Gl support?
2496 2011-02-10 18:20:26 <presence> heh, I never understood 80 char filenames :D
2497 2011-02-10 18:21:01 <Diablo-D3> dishwara: no.
2498 2011-02-10 18:21:07 <Diablo-D3> dishwara: you need opencl.
2499 2011-02-10 18:21:24 <gp5st1> is there a way to mark a certain transaction as not available for spending?
2500 2011-02-10 18:21:35 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: no because that doesnt make sense.
2501 2011-02-10 18:21:39 <presence> just send it to a different wallet address
2502 2011-02-10 18:21:46 <Diablo-D3> yeah what presence said
2503 2011-02-10 18:22:13 <EvanR-work> gp5st1: heh. a safetly lock?
2504 2011-02-10 18:22:14 <dishwara> hd5870 says has directx 11 & some hd5870 has opengl 3.1 support, but no one says about whether opencl has or not
2505 2011-02-10 18:22:15 <presence> then dont use that wallet
2506 2011-02-10 18:22:16 <EvanR-work> safety
2507 2011-02-10 18:22:26 <presence> it has openvl
2508 2011-02-10 18:22:27 <presence> cl
2509 2011-02-10 18:22:34 <Diablo-D3> dishwara: all 4xxx and 5xxx have opencl
2510 2011-02-10 18:22:38 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: it makes sense, the question is if it's useful to a large number of people:)
2511 2011-02-10 18:22:50 <presence> you just need to make sure either the driver has opencl listed, or to download and install the stream sdk
2512 2011-02-10 18:22:50 <dishwara> oh, good then
2513 2011-02-10 18:22:51 <Diablo-D3> dishwara: 4xxx lacks cl<->gl interop, but we dont use that
2514 2011-02-10 18:23:03 <Diablo-D3> presence: well
2515 2011-02-10 18:23:09 <Diablo-D3> you need sdk 2.1 unless you're on 69xx
2516 2011-02-10 18:23:19 <Diablo-D3> we dont need 2.2 or later, we dont use opencl 1.1
2517 2011-02-10 18:23:39 <presence> I hate waiting for my first gpu block
2518 2011-02-10 18:23:56 <dishwara> all the stores trying to sale 6xxx only, so hard to get 5870 for low price
2519 2011-02-10 18:24:07 <presence> I have no personal verification on how I will know the block was won, nor how the 50BTC gets distributed to me
2520 2011-02-10 18:24:09 <dishwara> still searching, may find in 2 days
2521 2011-02-10 18:24:12 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: well, the wallet doesnt handle money seperately
2522 2011-02-10 18:24:19 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: a send will work if you have the cash in your wallet
2523 2011-02-10 18:24:21 <presence> dish: I bought 2x5870 from newegg this week
2524 2011-02-10 18:24:33 kelvie_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2525 2011-02-10 18:24:37 <Diablo-D3> presence: use the bitcoin GUI client
2526 2011-02-10 18:24:40 <presence> $220 each + $20 mir each
2527 2011-02-10 18:24:43 <Diablo-D3> presence: it lists new generation events
2528 2011-02-10 18:24:44 <dishwara> presence: what the cost?
2529 2011-02-10 18:24:45 <presence> diabl: I have it
2530 2011-02-10 18:24:57 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: oh, i thought you had to list the transactions that gave you the money as input and the remainder of the transaction was the output and what was left in your wallet
2531 2011-02-10 18:25:04 <gp5st1> and that's how money wasn't double spent
2532 2011-02-10 18:25:12 <presence> but poclbm just outputs a hash rate, and since I havent won a block yet...I havent seen how bitcoin gui reports it
2533 2011-02-10 18:25:13 <gp5st1> because you couldn't use the same transaction twice as input
2534 2011-02-10 18:25:15 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: no.
2535 2011-02-10 18:25:21 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: the chain already lists every transaction ever
2536 2011-02-10 18:25:21 <gp5st1> because it's in the chain as being used
2537 2011-02-10 18:25:24 <gp5st1> oh:(
2538 2011-02-10 18:25:31 <Diablo-D3> it already knows what coins you have
2539 2011-02-10 18:25:34 <gp5st1> i just said that, so i know
2540 2011-02-10 18:25:42 <dishwara> ok, searching on newegg
2541 2011-02-10 18:25:50 <presence> you cant doublespend unless someone who has a large investment in bitcoin processing turns evil and screws themselves over
2542 2011-02-10 18:26:06 <Diablo-D3> yeah, attacking bitcoin at this point cant be profitable
2543 2011-02-10 18:26:09 <Diablo-D3> it can only be lulzy
2544 2011-02-10 18:26:10 <slush> heh, looks like somebody is joking from pool :)
2545 2011-02-10 18:26:21 <Diablo-D3> slush: er, what?
2546 2011-02-10 18:26:24 <slush> looks like somebody pulled many valid shares at once
2547 2011-02-10 18:26:26 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: but you didn't really anser the question
2548 2011-02-10 18:26:30 <presence> you can get a (probably) decent immediate return for your permenant loss
2549 2011-02-10 18:26:32 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2550 2011-02-10 18:26:35 <gp5st1> how can't i double spend money?
2551 2011-02-10 18:26:53 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: because of the proof of work system
2552 2011-02-10 18:26:54 <presence> you cant
2553 2011-02-10 18:26:57 <presence> read the whitepaper
2554 2011-02-10 18:27:02 <Diablo-D3> yeah, read the whitepaper
2555 2011-02-10 18:27:26 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: i did, and i guess it didn't stick:-\
2556 2011-02-10 18:27:29 <presence> the system was designed specifically to prevent double-spend without having a centralized authority validate
2557 2011-02-10 18:27:38 <gp5st1> i understand this all
2558 2011-02-10 18:27:39 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: basically, lets say I have coin A
2559 2011-02-10 18:27:48 <slush> or if hashrate was doubled, maybe it is only bug in hashrate. I have to check logs
2560 2011-02-10 18:27:50 <gp5st1> please don't state what i just said and say there:(
2561 2011-02-10 18:27:54 RazielZ has joined
2562 2011-02-10 18:28:06 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: coin A is known to be held by address M and is worth value V
2563 2011-02-10 18:28:13 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2564 2011-02-10 18:28:14 BlueMatt has joined
2565 2011-02-10 18:28:29 <presence> the only way that you could double spend is if you win most of the bitcoin hash generations and rework history
2566 2011-02-10 18:28:33 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: I send coin A to another address, everyone now knows address N holds it and it is worth V
2567 2011-02-10 18:28:44 dukeleto has joined
2568 2011-02-10 18:28:49 <presence> to have this be reliable, you need to have 33% or more, and even 33% will pose an issue
2569 2011-02-10 18:28:51 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: I cannot send it again because everyone knows I no longer have A
2570 2011-02-10 18:29:24 <Diablo-D3> presence: actually, you have to have over 66% of all the interconnected clients (not merely all clients)
2571 2011-02-10 18:29:35 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: oh, i thought it was based on the transactions, not the coins. what i said above was basically the same, except it used the tx not the coin.  i'm guessing these are nanocoins that are tracked then?
2572 2011-02-10 18:29:38 <Diablo-D3> presence: they just need to lie with a fake but valid chain
2573 2011-02-10 18:29:53 <presence> diablo: I understand...but it can be done unreliably even with 33%
2574 2011-02-10 18:30:07 <Diablo-D3> presence: yeah, but its more difficult to outrun the chain that way
2575 2011-02-10 18:30:13 <presence> exactly
2576 2011-02-10 18:30:20 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: its based on values, technically.
2577 2011-02-10 18:30:29 <slush> GeorgeJ: pool is proxy around bitcoind
2578 2011-02-10 18:30:32 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: the transactions merely state who has what
2579 2011-02-10 18:30:36 <presence> you really have to have a huge investment in processing at this time to pull it off, and even then, you would be shooting yourself in the foot
2580 2011-02-10 18:30:41 <GeorgeJ> oh, awesome, thanks
2581 2011-02-10 18:30:49 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: to make a transaction valid, it has to be included in a new block that everyone accepts
2582 2011-02-10 18:30:52 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: i was misusing the term then
2583 2011-02-10 18:31:02 <GeorgeJ> slush: how do you know when you've got a new block? you just chek the block count?
2584 2011-02-10 18:31:04 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: once everyone accepts it, then everyone knows the transaction
2585 2011-02-10 18:31:20 <gp5st1> Diablo-D3: i just meant that all my most recent transactions that aren't used anywhere say i have X btc
2586 2011-02-10 18:31:21 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: so if everyone knows I had 50btc, and sent it to somewhere else, I no longer have the 50btc
2587 2011-02-10 18:31:29 <gp5st1> ok, so i think i should undersand
2588 2011-02-10 18:31:41 <slush> GeorgeJ: I check submit against difficulty 1 for counting shares
2589 2011-02-10 18:31:42 <Diablo-D3> gp5st1: the chain of work is _everyone_ transaction ever
2590 2011-02-10 18:31:46 <Diablo-D3> er
2591 2011-02-10 18:31:49 <Diablo-D3> _every_
2592 2011-02-10 18:31:53 <Diablo-D3> no matter who did it
2593 2011-02-10 18:31:53 <slush> GeorgeJ: and bitcoin check share against full difficulty and give me the result
2594 2011-02-10 18:31:59 <gp5st1> i know t has them all
2595 2011-02-10 18:32:16 <gp5st1> there is only one chain:)
2596 2011-02-10 18:32:36 <GeorgeJ> slush: I understand, tyvm
2597 2011-02-10 18:32:56 <gp5st1> thanks Diablo-D3
2598 2011-02-10 18:36:05 nameless has quit (!~root@weowntheinter.net|Quit: reboot time)
2599 2011-02-10 18:38:29 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2600 2011-02-10 18:40:14 nameless has joined
2601 2011-02-10 18:41:37 lyspooner has joined
2602 2011-02-10 18:43:25 kelvie_ has joined
2603 2011-02-10 18:45:33 blkabla has joined
2604 2011-02-10 18:53:47 Lube has joined
2605 2011-02-10 18:53:48 <jgarzik> ;;bc,poolstats
2606 2011-02-10 18:53:49 <gribble> {"active_workers": 444, "ghashes_ps": "42.268", "getwork_ps": 170}
2607 2011-02-10 18:54:45 Lube has quit ()
2608 2011-02-10 18:59:06 <slush> it looks like hashmeter issue
2609 2011-02-10 19:00:02 <slush> I don't see any significant change in submit rate
2610 2011-02-10 19:00:27 <lyspooner> hey slush, did vladimir leave the pool today?
2611 2011-02-10 19:00:38 <slush> lyspooner: I don't know, why?
2612 2011-02-10 19:00:49 <lyspooner> heard he was having issues
2613 2011-02-10 19:00:56 <slush> network issues?
2614 2011-02-10 19:00:59 <slush> They are fixed
2615 2011-02-10 19:01:23 bitcoiner has joined
2616 2011-02-10 19:01:46 <bitcoiner> I need help running my miner
2617 2011-02-10 19:01:58 kelvie_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2618 2011-02-10 19:02:35 <Diablo-D3> ask the question or it wont be answered
2619 2011-02-10 19:05:20 <cosurgi> wow, current round is pretty long. Total score of current round: 10397568.0078
2620 2011-02-10 19:05:33 <bitcoiner> I cant detect my video card it only shows my processor
2621 2011-02-10 19:06:06 <slush> cosurgi: 41 minutes
2622 2011-02-10 19:06:13 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: what video card, what os
2623 2011-02-10 19:06:17 <slush> cosurgi: renormalizing in minute...
2624 2011-02-10 19:06:37 <jgarzik> lyspooner: yes, he left
2625 2011-02-10 19:06:45 <bitcoiner> I have windows 7 and ati 4350 and onboard nvidia
2626 2011-02-10 19:07:01 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: you dont have nvidia drivers installed, right?
2627 2011-02-10 19:07:07 <bitcoiner> nope
2628 2011-02-10 19:07:14 <cosurgi> slush: works great!
2629 2011-02-10 19:07:26 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: I wonder if its because of your 4350
2630 2011-02-10 19:07:35 <cosurgi> slush: do you use ntpd ? It renormalized 20 seconds too early.
2631 2011-02-10 19:08:09 <bitcoiner> ok then can someone explain me how to join a miner pool ? cuz I get the connection problem to rpc
2632 2011-02-10 19:08:23 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: btw, you're only going to get about 7 mhash/sec out of that 4350.
2633 2011-02-10 19:09:21 <molecular> bitcoiner, which miner?
2634 2011-02-10 19:09:26 <cosurgi> slush: I mean, ntp (client) ntpd is server.
2635 2011-02-10 19:09:51 <bitcoiner> I used m0mchil
2636 2011-02-10 19:09:58 <molecular> bitcoiner, first go to a pool site and make account, for example mining.bitcoin.cz
2637 2011-02-10 19:10:27 <slush> cosurgi: I have ntp on server
2638 2011-02-10 19:10:38 <slush> Renormalizing scores
2639 2011-02-10 19:10:38 <slush> Actual date: 2011-02-10 19:00:02.324291
2640 2011-02-10 19:10:38 <slush> Duration: 2546
2641 2011-02-10 19:10:38 <slush> Max score: 4849.67352225
2642 2011-02-10 19:10:38 <slush> Affected workers: 414
2643 2011-02-10 19:10:38 <slush> Time: 0.0397620201111
2644 2011-02-10 19:10:47 <Diablo-D3> slush: whats that do?
2645 2011-02-10 19:10:49 <slush> cosurgi: 2 second later is the cron issue, I still didn't fix it
2646 2011-02-10 19:11:06 <cosurgi> hmm. I use ntp too. But I said 20 seconds, not 2. What was wrong? my clock?
2647 2011-02-10 19:11:10 <slush> cosurgi: started 2 second later from server time, run 40 ms
2648 2011-02-10 19:11:16 <bitcoiner> I wanted to use bitpenny.com
2649 2011-02-10 19:11:37 <slush> cosurgi: paste your current time, please
2650 2011-02-10 19:11:45 <cosurgi> you have 20 seconds to paste you date:
2651 2011-02-10 19:11:46 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: the command onefixt gave is correct
2652 2011-02-10 19:11:50 <cosurgi> czw, 10 lut 2011, 20:05:21 CET
2653 2011-02-10 19:11:54 <cosurgi> czw, 10 lut 2011, 20:05:25 CET
2654 2011-02-10 19:11:58 <molecular> bitcoiner, never tried bitpenny, semms easy enough though, there are even examples how to start your miner on frontpage
2655 2011-02-10 19:11:59 <cosurgi> czw, 10 lut 2011, 20:05:29 CET
2656 2011-02-10 19:12:01 <slush> no, we have same time
2657 2011-02-10 19:12:03 <cosurgi> czw, 10 lut 2011, 20:05:34 CET
2658 2011-02-10 19:12:08 <cosurgi> hm.
2659 2011-02-10 19:12:09 <Diablo-D3> Thu Feb 10 19:05:42 UTC 2011
2660 2011-02-10 19:12:17 <Diablo-D3> seems our time is in sync
2661 2011-02-10 19:12:17 brunner has joined
2662 2011-02-10 19:12:18 <slush> same here
2663 2011-02-10 19:12:24 <cosurgi> weird. panel clock is late 20 seconds??
2664 2011-02-10 19:12:30 <Diablo-D3> doubt it
2665 2011-02-10 19:12:39 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: /exec -o date
2666 2011-02-10 19:12:48 <bitcoiner> diablo what command ?
2667 2011-02-10 19:12:51 <cosurgi> czw, 10 lut 2011, 20:06:23 CET
2668 2011-02-10 19:12:53 <cosurgi> nice :)
2669 2011-02-10 19:12:55 <cosurgi> it's not.
2670 2011-02-10 19:12:56 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3266.0
2671 2011-02-10 19:13:01 <cosurgi> Ok, I don't know we will see next hour.
2672 2011-02-10 19:13:02 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: your time is spot on
2673 2011-02-10 19:13:16 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: for all the miners, hes giving the correct command
2674 2011-02-10 19:13:30 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: just substitute the address in the command for yours
2675 2011-02-10 19:14:09 <bitcoiner> ok thanks
2676 2011-02-10 19:15:16 <Sirius> Need copypaste help, insert links from bitcoin.org/trade to the wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
2677 2011-02-10 19:15:26 blkabla has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2678 2011-02-10 19:15:41 <Sirius> Edit one section at a time, announce here what you're working on
2679 2011-02-10 19:16:07 <Sirius> <- Internet services
2680 2011-02-10 19:18:24 <x6763> will bitcoin 0.3.20 support connecting to mining pools?
2681 2011-02-10 19:18:54 <bitcoiner> see it says problem connection to bitcoin rpc
2682 2011-02-10 19:20:19 <jgarzik> x6763: ?
2683 2011-02-10 19:20:30 <jgarzik> x6763: if you want a CPU miner, download cpuminer
2684 2011-02-10 19:21:04 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: erm
2685 2011-02-10 19:21:09 <jgarzik> x6763: pools connect to bitcoind.  it doesn't make sense to connect bitcoind to a pool.
2686 2011-02-10 19:21:09 <Diablo-D3> because his pool was down for awhile
2687 2011-02-10 19:21:27 <Diablo-D3> bitcoiner: I just saw a bunch of those on mine, and it was working fine
2688 2011-02-10 19:21:30 <Diablo-D3> it should be back up now
2689 2011-02-10 19:21:37 <jgarzik> Sirius: cool idea
2690 2011-02-10 19:22:37 <x6763> jgarzik: that makes no sense...the official client can mine, i'm just wondering if/when the official client will support mining in a pool (as a client), just like cpuminer does
2691 2011-02-10 19:22:52 * cosurgi just cloned 2 USB sticks, 8GB, for tommorow's miners.\
2692 2011-02-10 19:22:57 <x6763> i thought i remembered seeing that it was being worked on, but i don't know for sure
2693 2011-02-10 19:23:11 <cosurgi> dd for teh win!
2694 2011-02-10 19:23:17 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2695 2011-02-10 19:23:49 <x6763> or is the official client going to be forever obsolete for mining at all?
2696 2011-02-10 19:24:28 <jgarzik> x6763: Using the official client makes no sense, because the official client was built to run the P2P network and serve JSON-RPC requests to the wallet.  Therefore, you would have to change a lot of the program, simply to avoid using 95% of the existing code in the client.
2697 2011-02-10 19:24:29 <cosurgi> that's possible
2698 2011-02-10 19:24:42 <jgarzik> x6763: official client is almost always slwoer than cpuminer
2699 2011-02-10 19:25:25 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: are you mining on bitpenny?
2700 2011-02-10 19:25:39 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: yes
2701 2011-02-10 19:25:39 <x6763> yes, *currently that is the case*! what i'm asking is anything is being changed for the next version? version 0.3.20
2702 2011-02-10 19:25:44 <OneFixt> cool ^_^
2703 2011-02-10 19:25:59 <jgarzik> x6763: no
2704 2011-02-10 19:26:02 gavinandresen has joined
2705 2011-02-10 19:26:06 <jgarzik> x6763: because it's pointless
2706 2011-02-10 19:26:27 <x6763> jgarzik: is the mining code being removed, then?
2707 2011-02-10 19:27:10 <x6763> jgarzik: because if you are right, then there's no reason at all for it to be there...i'm not sure your answers are very authoritative on this matter, however, and i should probably be asking someone else
2708 2011-02-10 19:27:27 GeorgeJ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2709 2011-02-10 19:27:29 MingusDew has joined
2710 2011-02-10 19:27:35 <jgarzik> rotfl
2711 2011-02-10 19:27:35 <x6763> jgarzik: i don't have any intention of using the official client to mine, i just want to know what the plans are for it as far as mining goes
2712 2011-02-10 19:27:37 bitcoiner has joined
2713 2011-02-10 19:27:42 <jgarzik> x6763: there are no plans
2714 2011-02-10 19:27:52 randipan has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2715 2011-02-10 19:28:01 <cosurgi> this is official client. Bleeding edge is always faster than official. Is that clear?
2716 2011-02-10 19:28:17 xelister has joined
2717 2011-02-10 19:28:17 xelister has quit (Changing host)
2718 2011-02-10 19:28:17 xelister has joined
2719 2011-02-10 19:28:24 <x6763> what is the first thing new users do? they download the client and turn on block generation...why?
2720 2011-02-10 19:28:44 <x6763> if it's useless, it shouldn't be there
2721 2011-02-10 19:28:47 <jgarzik> x6763: I doubt the official client will ever lose mining code, because the official client represents an entirely closed system.  If you ever wanted to start from scratch with your own bitcoin chain, the official client miner might make sense.
2722 2011-02-10 19:28:54 <jgarzik> _I_ would rather remove mining from the official client
2723 2011-02-10 19:28:59 <gavinandresen> Me too
2724 2011-02-10 19:29:03 <jgarzik> but I doubt other devs will agree with me
2725 2011-02-10 19:29:06 <jgarzik> or not :)
2726 2011-02-10 19:29:06 sgornick has joined
2727 2011-02-10 19:29:18 <xelister> everyone seen?
2728 2011-02-10 19:29:19 <xelister> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/10/189246/Online-Only-Currency-BitCoin-Reaches-Dollar-Parity
2729 2011-02-10 19:29:38 <xelister> we've been slashdot'd
2730 2011-02-10 19:30:17 <prax> osnap
2731 2011-02-10 19:30:19 <jgarzik> xelister: nice!
2732 2011-02-10 19:30:27 <xelister> =)
2733 2011-02-10 19:30:47 <jgarzik> xelister: can you post that link to forum thread 'bitcoin press hits, reliable sources'?
2734 2011-02-10 19:31:36 <presence> lame :(
2735 2011-02-10 19:31:39 <jgarzik> forum is quite a bit slower than usual, for me.
2736 2011-02-10 19:32:40 <cosurgi> ther's no link to bitcoin.org ???
2737 2011-02-10 19:32:52 <cosurgi> but loads of other junk?
2738 2011-02-10 19:33:32 <x6763> "Do alpacas really wear socks?"
2739 2011-02-10 19:33:52 <cosurgi> what is bitcoin watch - I never seen this before.
2740 2011-02-10 19:34:28 <Sirius> server memory usage 95% again
2741 2011-02-10 19:34:36 <edcba> slashdotted again !
2742 2011-02-10 19:34:37 <edcba> damn
2743 2011-02-10 19:35:03 <edcba> difficulty will jump again lol
2744 2011-02-10 19:35:06 <jgarzik> cosurgi: http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/    Been around for a while ;-)
2745 2011-02-10 19:36:01 <cosurgi> omg omg omg. the next block will come even sooner. I want my 5*5870 faster
2746 2011-02-10 19:36:08 <xelister> jgarzik: yeap
2747 2011-02-10 19:36:10 <Sirius> at least bitcoin.it works
2748 2011-02-10 19:36:28 <xelister> cosurgi: how many PCs for that?
2749 2011-02-10 19:36:58 <cosurgi> two. plus sixth card that I already have, and is in a box which hangs every two days (and was hanging before bitcoin too).
2750 2011-02-10 19:37:07 <cosurgi> three slots on mobo
2751 2011-02-10 19:37:26 bitcoind has joined
2752 2011-02-10 19:37:50 <xelister> cosurgi: considered other setups, there are even 4 slots mobo's
2753 2011-02-10 19:37:58 <cosurgi> too hot
2754 2011-02-10 19:38:11 <cosurgi> too expensive PSU
2755 2011-02-10 19:38:14 <Diablo-D3> shit
2756 2011-02-10 19:38:18 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi is turning into art
2757 2011-02-10 19:38:32 <Necr0s> cosurgi, you know the cure for a hanging box?
2758 2011-02-10 19:38:38 <cosurgi> that will be only 2.4 G
2759 2011-02-10 19:38:42 <cosurgi> slush has more
2760 2011-02-10 19:38:56 <cosurgi> what hanging?
2761 2011-02-10 19:39:08 <Necr0s> X-10 module, "firecracker" PC interface on another box, BIOS set to auto power-on.
2762 2011-02-10 19:39:09 <x6763> are there any other publicly available miners that aren't listed on slush's pool website?
2763 2011-02-10 19:39:30 <Diablo-D3> theres only like
2764 2011-02-10 19:39:31 <Diablo-D3> three
2765 2011-02-10 19:39:37 <Diablo-D3> mine, m0's, and that ext cpu one
2766 2011-02-10 19:39:44 <Diablo-D3> oh, four
2767 2011-02-10 19:39:45 <Diablo-D3> that cuda one
2768 2011-02-10 19:39:48 <Diablo-D3> that no one uses
2769 2011-02-10 19:39:49 <cosurgi> Necr0s: oh, that one. sure: PSU.
2770 2011-02-10 19:40:05 <cosurgi> Necr0s: it's a crappy box anyway. scapr it.
2771 2011-02-10 19:40:09 <x6763> Diablo-D3: ok, thanks, i figured that was it
2772 2011-02-10 19:40:10 <cosurgi> scrap
2773 2011-02-10 19:40:29 Kiba has joined
2774 2011-02-10 19:40:33 <jgarzik> forum is being slashdotted, I think
2775 2011-02-10 19:41:10 konstancja has joined
2776 2011-02-10 19:41:27 <dishwara> hi konstancja
2777 2011-02-10 19:41:58 <cosurgi> well, I believe that bitcoin will be a success, because I failed at cracking sha-256 :) (lol me now)
2778 2011-02-10 19:42:23 jdankanyin has joined
2779 2011-02-10 19:42:24 <xelister> bitcoin.org doesnt load for me... overload ;)
2780 2011-02-10 19:42:30 <Sirius> now it's not even memory full, but apache just can't handle that many connections
2781 2011-02-10 19:42:57 <konstancja> hi Dishwara
2782 2011-02-10 19:43:15 <cosurgi> but... if I get hold of a 10^200 faster hardware, I'll crack sha-256 :)
2783 2011-02-10 19:43:24 <jdankanyin> hey all im new ive been generating blocks and it stopped at 107317 how can i transfer the blocks to bitcoins and put in my wallet
2784 2011-02-10 19:43:27 <xelister> cosurgi: ArtForz is doing that
2785 2011-02-10 19:43:46 <prax> doesnt work that way jdank
2786 2011-02-10 19:43:52 <cosurgi> not this way. I'm thinking about solving bolean polynomian of 384 variables.
2787 2011-02-10 19:43:57 <cosurgi> polynomial
2788 2011-02-10 19:44:04 <xelister> cosurgi: good luck
2789 2011-02-10 19:44:11 <cosurgi> :)
2790 2011-02-10 19:44:23 <xelister> where is graph of diff in time?
2791 2011-02-10 19:44:28 <jdankanyin> ok so prax when will it start generation the coins then
2792 2011-02-10 19:44:41 <xelister> actuall slashdoters... damn... diff will jump x5 :{
2793 2011-02-10 19:44:58 bitcoind_ has joined
2794 2011-02-10 19:45:00 * xelister wonders if slashdoting is good or bad?
2795 2011-02-10 19:45:25 <xelister> I guess it will be bad for small to medium miners, but good for the entire network-project
2796 2011-02-10 19:45:35 <Diablo-D3> [02:36:48] <cosurgi> but... if I get hold of a 10^200 faster hardware, I'll crack sha-256 :)
2797 2011-02-10 19:45:36 <Diablo-D3> dude
2798 2011-02-10 19:45:39 <Diablo-D3> if I had hardware that fast
2799 2011-02-10 19:45:47 bitcoind has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2800 2011-02-10 19:45:49 <Diablo-D3> I'd create a perfect woman
2801 2011-02-10 19:45:55 <xelister> if I had hardware that fa
2802 2011-02-10 19:46:00 <xelister> lol I was going in similar direction
2803 2011-02-10 19:46:07 <cosurgi> :-)
2804 2011-02-10 19:46:09 <xelister> if I had hardware that fast, I would make Diablo-D3's sister love me again
2805 2011-02-10 19:46:13 <xelister> ...with all the bitcoins generated
2806 2011-02-10 19:46:17 * xelister tu-dum-tssh
2807 2011-02-10 19:46:19 <kupo> slush: can you explain the return for you pool?
2808 2011-02-10 19:46:23 <kupo> pool;
2809 2011-02-10 19:46:27 <kupo> ;pool
2810 2011-02-10 19:46:45 <x6763> ;;pool
2811 2011-02-10 19:46:45 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2812 2011-02-10 19:46:50 <prax> off twitter: Why am I just now hearing about BitCoin? Is the world fundamentally changing without telling me?
2813 2011-02-10 19:46:50 <kupo> ty
2814 2011-02-10 19:46:58 <x6763> kupo: np
2815 2011-02-10 19:47:34 <jdankanyin> prax so how do i make coins if it stops making blocks
2816 2011-02-10 19:47:59 <lyspooner> prax, because you spend too much time on reddit laughing at cat pictures
2817 2011-02-10 19:48:11 <x6763> jdankanyin: what you witnessed was your client downloading blocks, not making them
2818 2011-02-10 19:48:13 <jdankanyin> the blocks stopped at 107313
2819 2011-02-10 19:48:30 <jdankanyin> x6763 ah ok
2820 2011-02-10 19:48:44 <x6763> that's the 107313 blocks created over the last 2 years
2821 2011-02-10 19:48:58 <x6763> actually it's at 107319 now
2822 2011-02-10 19:49:06 <jdankanyin> ok so how long does it take to generate coins
2823 2011-02-10 19:49:09 kelvie_ has joined
2824 2011-02-10 19:49:25 <x6763> with a cpu, it takes a very long time...GPUs are the way to go these days...however you can join a ,,pool
2825 2011-02-10 19:49:25 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
2826 2011-02-10 19:49:38 oe923 has joined
2827 2011-02-10 19:49:56 <xelister> jgarzik: what thread is that
2828 2011-02-10 19:49:58 <xelister> ?
2829 2011-02-10 19:50:05 <jdankanyin> so a quad core cpu cant create coins
2830 2011-02-10 19:50:07 <xelister> forum working super slow in fact
2831 2011-02-10 19:50:13 <presence> they can
2832 2011-02-10 19:50:18 <presence> just not this year
2833 2011-02-10 19:50:23 <presence> unless you are lucky
2834 2011-02-10 19:50:37 <xelister> jdankanyin: it can but slowly.  Join some pool I guess, to receive the cents every day
2835 2011-02-10 19:51:00 oe923 has quit (Client Quit)
2836 2011-02-10 19:51:09 <Syke> jdankanyin, sure, a cpu can do it, but it'll take like a year to create a block of 50 coins
2837 2011-02-10 19:51:36 <jdankanyin> syke ah ok
2838 2011-02-10 19:51:37 konstancja has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2839 2011-02-10 19:52:14 <jdankanyin> syke how long have you used that nick on irc it seems very familure to me
2840 2011-02-10 19:53:37 RazielZ has quit ()
2841 2011-02-10 19:54:16 <Kiba> hey
2842 2011-02-10 19:54:54 <Syke> something like 10 years, but it's not too unique :(
2843 2011-02-10 19:55:15 <jdankanyin> ive been on irc longer then that
2844 2011-02-10 19:55:35 <jdankanyin> since like 1992
2845 2011-02-10 19:56:10 <jdankanyin> started on irc when aol 3.0 came out on dal net
2846 2011-02-10 19:57:27 bitcoind_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2847 2011-02-10 19:58:34 <Syke> Diablo-D3, tell me your latest miner didn't break creating blocks. i've been cranking for several days at close to 1 ghps and nothing!
2848 2011-02-10 19:58:34 <presence> who knows a little bit about gpu/video card design
2849 2011-02-10 19:58:47 thesnark has joined
2850 2011-02-10 19:58:47 <presence> Im assuming that the GPU does math, and does not do video signal
2851 2011-02-10 19:58:49 <gp5st1> are there any chars not allowed in scripts?
2852 2011-02-10 19:59:07 <presence> there must be another chip on board that processes the output from the gpu to display on the screen
2853 2011-02-10 19:59:22 <thesnark> First time user here... I can't open bitcoin.org. Let me guess: being DDoS'd by a mystery party?
2854 2011-02-10 19:59:25 <gp5st1> errr, would any base64 char be valid in a script
2855 2011-02-10 19:59:39 <Kiba> a continous avalance of bitcoiners!
2856 2011-02-10 19:59:49 <jdankanyin> presence are you making a miner and are you liquid cooling it once it is made
2857 2011-02-10 20:00:00 <thesnark> Kiba seriously?
2858 2011-02-10 20:00:13 <presence> Heh, no, I have miners already
2859 2011-02-10 20:00:28 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
2860 2011-02-10 20:00:28 <presence> I just want to know whats between the GPU and the display port
2861 2011-02-10 20:00:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 38 seconds
2862 2011-02-10 20:00:44 <jdankanyin> kiba its from it being shown on twit network on security now show yesterday
2863 2011-02-10 20:00:44 <kupo> oh I had no idea btc was slashdotted today
2864 2011-02-10 20:00:52 <presence> ;;bc.calc 660000
2865 2011-02-10 20:00:52 <gribble> Error: "bc.calc" is not a valid command.
2866 2011-02-10 20:00:52 <thesnark> oh ok
2867 2011-02-10 20:01:02 <presence> ;;bc,calc 660000
2868 2011-02-10 20:01:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 660000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 day, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 41 seconds
2869 2011-02-10 20:01:04 <Kiba> this is like our second slashdotting!
2870 2011-02-10 20:01:15 <Kiba> the initial slashdot is what created this very community
2871 2011-02-10 20:01:40 <thesnark> Kiba believe me, other people were going to do this no matter what =P
2872 2011-02-10 20:02:55 <Kiba> ?
2873 2011-02-10 20:03:02 matrix has joined
2874 2011-02-10 20:03:14 <Kiba> I believe even the second slashdotting is too great on the forum server
2875 2011-02-10 20:03:16 <thesnark> (create something like bitcoin...point being that slashdot or no slashdot this community would be here)
2876 2011-02-10 20:03:40 <Diablo-D3> [02:52:07] <Syke> Diablo-D3, tell me your latest miner didn't break creating blocks. i've been cranking for several days at close to 1 ghps and nothing!
2877 2011-02-10 20:03:43 <Diablo-D3> works for me
2878 2011-02-10 20:03:48 <Diablo-D3> Syke: are you on a pool?
2879 2011-02-10 20:03:53 <Kiba> bitcoin.org is DOWN :O
2880 2011-02-10 20:04:00 <andrew12> hi
2881 2011-02-10 20:04:03 isBitCoinOrgDown has joined
2882 2011-02-10 20:04:07 <Syke> Diablo-D3, no pool, just local
2883 2011-02-10 20:04:11 local has joined
2884 2011-02-10 20:04:20 <Diablo-D3> Syke: how fast?
2885 2011-02-10 20:04:26 <jgarzik> yep, bitcoin.org is dead
2886 2011-02-10 20:04:33 <Diablo-D3> Syke: also you ARE using the newest version, right?
2887 2011-02-10 20:04:34 <isBitCoinOrgDown> ok :(
2888 2011-02-10 20:04:42 <jdankanyin> syke what do you use for your miner
2889 2011-02-10 20:04:47 <Syke> which reminds me, you need a --version parameter
2890 2011-02-10 20:04:54 <Diablo-D3> Syke: because I accidently had a broken version for a very short time
2891 2011-02-10 20:04:55 <Syke> jdankanyin, DiabloMiner
2892 2011-02-10 20:05:00 <Diablo-D3> I dont think anyone downloaded it
2893 2011-02-10 20:05:07 * cosurgi came from first slashdotting
2894 2011-02-10 20:05:16 * Diablo-D3 existed before slashdot.
2895 2011-02-10 20:05:21 * Diablo-D3 existed before slashdot literally, too
2896 2011-02-10 20:05:34 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2897 2011-02-10 20:05:40 * jgarzik came from John Robbing
2898 2011-02-10 20:05:52 <cosurgi> would I somehow discover bitcoin earlier, I'd come earlier. Too bad I only read slashdot.
2899 2011-02-10 20:05:54 <jdankanyin> syke did you hear about the pay per bit thats happening in canada on how it will effect this or did you guys configure it already
2900 2011-02-10 20:06:18 thesnark has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2901 2011-02-10 20:06:35 <jgarzik> nothing wrong with metered traffic... as long as there is fair market for competition among vendors for each home
2902 2011-02-10 20:07:32 <cosurgi> wow, guy from the shop jsut called, and said that my GPUs will arrive tomorrow morning 99.5% probability.
2903 2011-02-10 20:07:36 <Syke> Diablo-D3, i'm guessing DiabloMiner...jar is the best way to tell if the version is current, mine's dated Feb 5
2904 2011-02-10 20:07:49 <jdankanyin> syke do you have a link to download the diablominer and does that use diablo game i run eqemulator,swg,eq2,eve,wow server was thinking about using that
2905 2011-02-10 20:09:00 <Syke> DiabloMiner is for mining bitcoins
2906 2011-02-10 20:09:23 <jdankanyin> cosurgi how much you pay for them
2907 2011-02-10 20:09:58 <cosurgi> 310 USD for 5870, not too cheap, but a good price in europe
2908 2011-02-10 20:10:18 <jdankanyin> syke yes i know that but it works off of cpu cycles and runing a sql server makes alot of cycles with 1000 users on it at once
2909 2011-02-10 20:10:36 <Syke> DiabloMiner runs on the GPU
2910 2011-02-10 20:11:09 <jdankanyin> syke it runs off of the graphics driver cpu
2911 2011-02-10 20:11:50 <Kiba> jgarzik: sound like insigifant amount of competition
2912 2011-02-10 20:12:17 <Diablo-D3> Syke: the best way to know if you have the newest version is download the zip again
2913 2011-02-10 20:12:37 <Syke> yeah, so put a --version parameter in!
2914 2011-02-10 20:12:41 james has joined
2915 2011-02-10 20:12:48 <Diablo-D3> Syke: I would, but I refuse to update it
2916 2011-02-10 20:12:53 <Diablo-D3> so it'd be stuck at 0.1 forever
2917 2011-02-10 20:13:07 james is now known as Guest55715
2918 2011-02-10 20:13:08 <Syke> at least have it report build date or something
2919 2011-02-10 20:14:32 matrix has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2920 2011-02-10 20:14:37 <midnightmagic> why did noagendamarket kick everyone from #bitcoind
2921 2011-02-10 20:14:43 <jgarzik> Kiba: correct.  many markets have a single, monopoly provider for Internet.
2922 2011-02-10 20:15:11 <jgarzik> pricing is picked by throwing a dart at a wall
2923 2011-02-10 20:15:12 <Syke> Diablo-D3, is the latest build posted at adterrasperaspera.com?
2924 2011-02-10 20:15:22 jdankanyin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2925 2011-02-10 20:16:51 <sgornick> isBitCoinOrgDown: it's back now, appears ...
2926 2011-02-10 20:17:39 <Sirius> yes, added memory again
2927 2011-02-10 20:18:00 <Sirius> apache sucks or something, mem usage 50%, low loads, still works slow
2928 2011-02-10 20:18:23 <Sirius> somebody recommended lighttpd
2929 2011-02-10 20:19:22 <jgarzik> what is that website that lets people buy on Amazon.com with bitcoins?
2930 2011-02-10 20:20:10 <jgarzik> Sirius: remember that a lot of webapps, like php, run inside the web server
2931 2011-02-10 20:20:23 <prax> not coinpal?
2932 2011-02-10 20:20:27 <edcba> some slashdotters still didn't understand that the 21M bitcoins are divisible
2933 2011-02-10 20:20:31 <prax> never heard of who takes Amazon
2934 2011-02-10 20:20:36 <xelister> someone should join #bitcoin and set a tittle there to join here. and add welcome bot
2935 2011-02-10 20:20:38 <edcba> it sould be made more clear
2936 2011-02-10 20:20:59 * xelister pokes nameless| tcatm UukGoblin Xunie in their collective op eyes
2937 2011-02-10 20:21:14 <xelister> I suppose few new users will join
2938 2011-02-10 20:21:16 <xelister> *some
2939 2011-02-10 20:21:25 <jgarzik> hrm.  Maybe I'm confused, and thinking of the site where you pay in USD for Amazon items, and get paid back in BTC through the use of a special referral link.
2940 2011-02-10 20:23:03 <Sirius> just 898 open connections
2941 2011-02-10 20:23:07 <prax> http://www.freelancer.com/projects/rullieahmad_945260.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
2942 2011-02-10 20:23:59 <Sirius> maybe I'll post a static redirect page to bitcoin.it? :P
2943 2011-02-10 20:25:24 <jgarzik> Sirius: is the main page http://www.bitcoin.org/ static HTML?
2944 2011-02-10 20:25:55 <Kiba> jgarzik: so we got slashdotted again
2945 2011-02-10 20:26:03 <Kiba> what will you do to increase its performance?
2946 2011-02-10 20:26:05 <jgarzik> Sirius: make sure you have turned on all possible caching.  most app engines link into memcached somehow, for example.
2947 2011-02-10 20:26:51 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2948 2011-02-10 20:27:30 <Kiba> well
2949 2011-02-10 20:27:37 <Kiba> now the geek world now know about us
2950 2011-02-10 20:27:41 <Sirius> it's drupal and cached
2951 2011-02-10 20:28:34 <edcba> you can also redirect to .nyud.net
2952 2011-02-10 20:28:42 <edcba> in extreme case
2953 2011-02-10 20:28:56 dishwara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2954 2011-02-10 20:29:01 <luke-jr> renting my GPU miner out… 265 MH/s for 0.5 BTC/hr
2955 2011-02-10 20:29:18 <jgarzik> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
2956 2011-02-10 20:29:30 <jgarzik> a market for GPU hash/sec would be interesting
2957 2011-02-10 20:30:00 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|runes to the op eye doctor
2958 2011-02-10 20:30:14 xelister has joined
2959 2011-02-10 20:30:15 <xelister> <_<
2960 2011-02-10 20:30:21 <OneFixt> luke-jr: bitpenny.com ;)
2961 2011-02-10 20:30:32 <luke-jr> OneFixt: that's not 0.5 BTC/hr!
2962 2011-02-10 20:30:37 <Kiba> twweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting bomb
2963 2011-02-10 20:30:38 <xelister> nameless|: to configure #bitcoin better :) perhaps more random users will join soon sicne slashdotting
2964 2011-02-10 20:30:41 <OneFixt> hehe
2965 2011-02-10 20:30:47 <Diablo-D3> [03:08:45] <Syke> Diablo-D3, is the latest build posted at adterrasperaspera.com?
2966 2011-02-10 20:30:47 <Diablo-D3> yes
2967 2011-02-10 20:31:00 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Did we get /.ed again?
2968 2011-02-10 20:31:03 <luke-jr> another slashdotting?
2969 2011-02-10 20:31:11 <luke-jr> why does slashdot run the same crap twice?
2970 2011-02-10 20:31:13 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Also, I don't have op in #bitcoin, just #bitcoin-dev
2971 2011-02-10 20:31:19 <luke-jr> I mean, it'd make sense if they did it for TBC…
2972 2011-02-10 20:31:43 <Kiba> luke-jr: dude...you're like taking forever
2973 2011-02-10 20:31:48 <Kiba> your advertising thingie
2974 2011-02-10 20:32:03 albertid has joined
2975 2011-02-10 20:32:24 <Kiba> so I am going to link to the wiki page on tonal bitcoin
2976 2011-02-10 20:33:13 <luke-jr> Kiba: -.-
2977 2011-02-10 20:33:20 * xelister still doesnt get what is the fuzz about tinal bitcoin
2978 2011-02-10 20:33:39 <luke-jr> Kiba: fine, as long as you'll update it when I have something ready.
2979 2011-02-10 20:33:41 <jgarzik> xelister: there is none.  it's manufactured.
2980 2011-02-10 20:33:46 <Syke> Diablo-D3, I turned on debug. are the "attempt X found" the potential winners?
2981 2011-02-10 20:33:51 <luke-jr> xelister: it's better
2982 2011-02-10 20:33:57 <Kiba> luke-jr: well, you have 30 days worth of advertising
2983 2011-02-10 20:33:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ever try manually bisecting?
2984 2011-02-10 20:34:04 <luke-jr> Kiba: yeah, I get that
2985 2011-02-10 20:34:55 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I do a lot of bisecting, and it's always a huge pain :)
2986 2011-02-10 20:35:30 larsivi has joined
2987 2011-02-10 20:35:36 <xelister> I dont get it..
2988 2011-02-10 20:35:49 <xelister> is tonal- some faggotized version of hexa- ?
2989 2011-02-10 20:36:23 AAA_awright has joined
2990 2011-02-10 20:36:41 <gavinandresen> Does anybody here besides luke-jr care about tonal bitcoin?
2991 2011-02-10 20:36:50 <jgarzik> no
2992 2011-02-10 20:36:56 <x6763> no
2993 2011-02-10 20:37:06 <Syke> xelister, haha, yeah, it's hex, but with different symbols, words, etc.
2994 2011-02-10 20:37:24 <lyspooner> no
2995 2011-02-10 20:37:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the question is, why would Tonal users be here right now?
2996 2011-02-10 20:37:43 <Kiba> Sirius: ever consider the possiblity of moving the site to a host that support bitcoin payment?
2997 2011-02-10 20:37:48 <xelister> oh dear god
2998 2011-02-10 20:37:54 <xelister> so tonal- is simply gay name for hax.
2999 2011-02-10 20:37:56 <xelister> hex
3000 2011-02-10 20:37:57 <xelister> sigh.
3001 2011-02-10 20:38:00 <luke-jr> xelister: not quite
3002 2011-02-10 20:38:13 <xelister> I apprecitate hexa, but people do not find this comfortable
3003 2011-02-10 20:38:14 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: the question for me is whether your constant yakking about tbc will turn off people who are already thinking bitcoin is a fringe concept
3004 2011-02-10 20:38:14 <Kiba> xelister: I get paid to advertise luke-jr's Tonal propogranda
3005 2011-02-10 20:38:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: wouldn't it be easier, if you could just keep dividing? ;)
3006 2011-02-10 20:38:50 <xelister> so this sucks
3007 2011-02-10 20:38:55 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3008 2011-02-10 20:39:06 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: bitcoin *is* a fringe concept. if it wants to succeed, it needs to appeal to more than the fringe people.
3009 2011-02-10 20:39:15 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: no worries dude, long as they don't think luke-jr is a core dev they won't care.
3010 2011-02-10 20:39:23 AAA_awright has joined
3011 2011-02-10 20:39:25 <luke-jr> support for Tonal is one way to appeal to a *different* fringe group
3012 2011-02-10 20:39:51 <midnightmagic> so, tinfoil hate people *AND* bigfoot sightings experts. :)
3013 2011-02-10 20:39:52 <xelister> would be good if someone would now buy the 486 BTC that are waiting @~1.00 , so we are again >1.00 when people come to take a look ;)
3014 2011-02-10 20:39:58 <gavinandresen> If there were more than six people in the world who cared about tonal then that might make sense
3015 2011-02-10 20:40:21 <luke-jr> xelister: I just bought 100 @ $1 from Market; it's now over $1 on the ask side.
3016 2011-02-10 20:40:37 <xelister> woot =)
3017 2011-02-10 20:40:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: pretty sure I know at least 7! :P
3018 2011-02-10 20:41:05 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: don't worry about it man, tonal is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. if tonal patches made it into core, then maybe, but otherwise? meh.
3019 2011-02-10 20:41:17 <luke-jr> xelister: my next step is to anticipate where all the slashdot n00bs will be buying
3020 2011-02-10 20:41:33 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: core has no business being involved in human units
3021 2011-02-10 20:41:35 <Diablo-D3> [03:27:18] <Syke> Diablo-D3, I turned on debug. are the "attempt X found" the potential winners?
3022 2011-02-10 20:41:39 <gavinandresen> I'm just grumpy today because I've got a nasty head cold......
3023 2011-02-10 20:41:49 <Kiba> the new users today are late comers
3024 2011-02-10 20:41:49 <Diablo-D3> Syke: it means a H==0 was returned
3025 2011-02-10 20:41:54 <Diablo-D3> Syke: its a potential, but it wanst.
3026 2011-02-10 20:41:55 <Kiba> but nonetheless it's better to come late than never
3027 2011-02-10 20:42:01 <Diablo-D3> Syke: well, unless it says it DID find one
3028 2011-02-10 20:42:02 <luke-jr> hmm
3029 2011-02-10 20:42:06 <luke-jr> who runs Market again?
3030 2011-02-10 20:42:22 <Kiba> dwdollar
3031 2011-02-10 20:42:22 <Syke> Diablo-D3, any estimates on how many "finds" on average per real block success?
3032 2011-02-10 20:42:25 <gavinandresen> new users today are still, hopefully, early-adopters.
3033 2011-02-10 20:42:33 <gavinandresen> the bitcoin market is tiny still
3034 2011-02-10 20:42:59 <Diablo-D3> Syke: its random
3035 2011-02-10 20:43:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the question is: why should people adopt Bitcoin, over their local fiat currency?
3036 2011-02-10 20:43:13 <OneFixt> should be DIFF # of H==0 on average
3037 2011-02-10 20:43:21 <Syke> yeah yeah, but on average per a given difficulty
3038 2011-02-10 20:43:23 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that is the "problem" that needs to be addressed
3039 2011-02-10 20:43:39 <Diablo-D3> Syke: you get so many per x seconds no matter what the diff is
3040 2011-02-10 20:43:46 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  yup, that is the question.  I think bitcoin will be great as a long-term, secure store of value...
3041 2011-02-10 20:44:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's not secure yet, it needs more widespread adoption before it gets to that point
3042 2011-02-10 20:44:14 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: and an inexpensive way to exchange currencies (e.g. dollars to euros might eventually be cheaper through bitcoins)
3043 2011-02-10 20:44:15 <cosurgi> nice thing is that you can pay overseas without any overhead.
3044 2011-02-10 20:44:31 <luke-jr> most people don't do that though
3045 2011-02-10 20:44:39 <Syke> so basically it's straight up proportional to the hash rate. nothing interesting
3046 2011-02-10 20:44:39 <midnightmagic> i personally very much look forward to the money laundering possibilities.
3047 2011-02-10 20:44:41 * midnightmagic ducks.
3048 2011-02-10 20:44:46 Raulo has joined
3049 2011-02-10 20:44:47 <midnightmagic> sorry that was a bad joke i guess.
3050 2011-02-10 20:44:49 <Sirius> hey, if somebody has extra time, please add links to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
3051 2011-02-10 20:44:52 <gavinandresen> foreign currency exchange and hedging is a HUGE business
3052 2011-02-10 20:45:01 Phoebus has joined
3053 2011-02-10 20:45:18 <gavinandresen> ... and, frankly, yeah, all the shady illegal-in-lots-of-places stuff will be good for bitcoin
3054 2011-02-10 20:45:24 <Sirius> copypaste from bitcoin.org/trade
3055 2011-02-10 20:45:35 <luke-jr> so who runs Market again?
3056 2011-02-10 20:48:18 akem_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3057 2011-02-10 20:48:50 <xelister> huh redirectio to bitcoin.it now
3058 2011-02-10 20:50:53 <dwdollar1> I honestly trust BTC more than FRN's longterm.  There seems to be no end to their "quantitative easing"
3059 2011-02-10 20:53:09 <Kiba> dwdollar1: me three!
3060 2011-02-10 20:53:56 * Kiba seems to have many hiccup today
3061 2011-02-10 20:54:32 Zelig_ has joined
3062 2011-02-10 20:56:02 <edcba> what is FRN ?
3063 2011-02-10 20:56:24 <nanotube> federal reserve note
3064 2011-02-10 20:57:23 wsc9tt has joined
3065 2011-02-10 20:58:50 <luke-jr> any speculation where slashdot n00bs will be buying bitcoins?
3066 2011-02-10 21:00:09 <Zelig_> I'm one of them.  I'm looking for some technical answers before I'd buy anywhere.
3067 2011-02-10 21:00:26 <Zelig_> I was reading the transcript of today's channel traffic before sticking my oar in
3068 2011-02-10 21:00:32 <Zelig_> but that was a great straight line. :)
3069 2011-02-10 21:00:44 <sipa1024> slush: yes, partly
3070 2011-02-10 21:01:20 <Zelig_> Bitcoins are explicitly trackable;  they aren't attempting to be anonymous cash. Right?
3071 2011-02-10 21:01:27 <OneFixt> Someone should link to yesterday's SecurityNow show for the slashdotters
3072 2011-02-10 21:01:38 <lyspooner> zelig_: right
3073 2011-02-10 21:01:52 <lyspooner> bitcoinexplorer.com should help
3074 2011-02-10 21:02:00 <lyspooner> sorry
3075 2011-02-10 21:02:02 <lyspooner> blockexplorer
3076 2011-02-10 21:02:10 <slush> sipa1024: it was response to what? :)
3077 2011-02-10 21:02:29 <luke-jr> Zelig_: on the other hand, there's no way to be sure who holds what address really
3078 2011-02-10 21:02:36 <Zelig_> What guaruntees the probity of the central clearing house?
3079 2011-02-10 21:02:46 <luke-jr> what central clearing house?
3080 2011-02-10 21:02:50 <gavinandresen> Zelig_ : they're more anonymous than credit card or paypal transactions.  Less than cash.  I think.  Actually, do your fingerprints get wiped off cash quickly?
3081 2011-02-10 21:02:58 <Zelig_> Say bitcoins become interestingly valuable,
3082 2011-02-10 21:03:15 <gavinandresen> (and do you leave DNA on cash when you handle it... hmmm)
3083 2011-02-10 21:03:20 <Zelig_> and some people start using them for purposes which national agencies or multinational corps consider naughty.
3084 2011-02-10 21:03:36 <prax> govt can attack exchangers
3085 2011-02-10 21:03:39 <prax> like mtgox
3086 2011-02-10 21:03:48 <prax> cant reasonably take down bitcoin network though
3087 2011-02-10 21:03:57 <Zelig_> What's the organizational protection for the bitcoin central server?
3088 2011-02-10 21:04:04 <luke-jr> Zelig_: there is no central server
3089 2011-02-10 21:04:05 <prax> being distributed
3090 2011-02-10 21:04:07 <citiz3n> there is no bitcoin central server
3091 2011-02-10 21:04:11 <xelister> Zelig_: freenet transport for bitcoin. jump in with a bounty ;) https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0
3092 2011-02-10 21:04:32 akem_ has joined
3093 2011-02-10 21:04:33 akem_ has quit (Changing host)
3094 2011-02-10 21:04:33 akem_ has joined
3095 2011-02-10 21:04:38 <Zelig_> OK, clearly I need to read more about the 'clearing house' concept.  I envisioned a single house.
3096 2011-02-10 21:04:40 <Zelig_> Thanks.
3097 2011-02-10 21:04:47 <sipa1024> slush: about shamir.sipa
3098 2011-02-10 21:04:52 <gavinandresen> Zelig_ : you mean bitcoin.org?  It's not critical to bitcoin.  If it gets taken down by, oh, I dunno, a slashdotting, that doesn't affect bitcoin
3099 2011-02-10 21:04:57 <Zelig_> Back to anonynimity:
3100 2011-02-10 21:05:00 <xelister> btw, forum.bitcoin.org https cert sucks somehow, it is not possible to permanently add it in firefox
3101 2011-02-10 21:05:05 <xelister> Sirius: ^
3102 2011-02-10 21:05:11 <slush> sipa1024: well, there were some troubles with your miner, but it is OK now
3103 2011-02-10 21:05:27 <prax> Mubarak: sacrifice for his homeland
3104 2011-02-10 21:05:27 <dwdollar1> Zelig_:  Bitcoin behaves as a decentralized clearing house
3105 2011-02-10 21:05:31 <prax> sounds like Nazis
3106 2011-02-10 21:05:46 <luke-jr> Zelig_: bitcoin is like bittorrent, in a sense
3107 2011-02-10 21:05:47 <Zelig_> If I pay Mr. Naughty-person with a bitcoin, and he is convinced to render it up to some national agency, then my keys are part of the chain, and everyone else who had it?
3108 2011-02-10 21:06:27 <Zelig_> And the distributed clearing house can trace that coin back to its genesis?
3109 2011-02-10 21:06:33 <luke-jr> Zelig_: no
3110 2011-02-10 21:06:51 <Zelig_> I guess I need the bitcoin FAQ for paranoids. ;)
3111 2011-02-10 21:06:54 <luke-jr> unless that coin was spent unchanged throughout the whole time
3112 2011-02-10 21:07:02 <luke-jr> but often, coins are combined or split
3113 2011-02-10 21:07:05 <citiz3n> Zelig_ - just try it out
3114 2011-02-10 21:07:14 <citiz3n> give it some time - you don't need to buy any coins if you don't want to
3115 2011-02-10 21:07:19 <Sirius> Kiba: know of any such services? I don't want to use KalyHost cos bitcoin.it is already hosted there.
3116 2011-02-10 21:07:21 <citiz3n> you don't need to invest money or anything
3117 2011-02-10 21:07:24 <luke-jr> so any one transaction usually has numerous generations
3118 2011-02-10 21:07:26 <citiz3n> just play around - use the bitcoin faucet, etc
3119 2011-02-10 21:07:29 <gavinandresen> Zelig_: yeah, bitcoins get mixed together quite a bit.  Especially if you use an online bitcoin service like mtgox or mybitcoin
3120 2011-02-10 21:07:33 <Sirius> Kiba: rackspace is generally very reliable
3121 2011-02-10 21:07:49 <gavinandresen> ... kind of like how dollars from drug dealers get mixed up as they get deposited and handed back out at banks
3122 2011-02-10 21:07:58 <luke-jr> Sirius: http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps&currency=BTC
3123 2011-02-10 21:08:14 <Zelig_> Oh, I'm not protecting my own cash:  I'm interested in the characteristics of the system.  Cryptocash is an exciting idea to me, especially as it seems a perfect alternate-economy basis.
3124 2011-02-10 21:08:26 <lyspooner> bitcoinlaundry.com too
3125 2011-02-10 21:08:33 <Zelig_> It's not about saving me money., :)
3126 2011-02-10 21:08:35 <genjix> hey gavinandresen, http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3793/screenshotvw.png and http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2757/screenshothe.png
3127 2011-02-10 21:08:50 <Zelig_> It's about wondering how the system might resist plausible attacks in case of success.
3128 2011-02-10 21:09:19 <Zelig_> I think we need a nonrepudiable, really anonymous medium of exchange.
3129 2011-02-10 21:09:25 <luke-jr> the most effective attack, IMO, would be for gov't to shutdown anyone who publicly says they accept bitcoin
3130 2011-02-10 21:09:25 blue__ has joined
3131 2011-02-10 21:09:33 <gavinandresen> genjix: hmm?  what is sent to fake?
3132 2011-02-10 21:09:33 <luke-jr> and make it illegal to solicit bitcoin payments
3133 2011-02-10 21:09:44 <genjix> they're example entries I added
3134 2011-02-10 21:09:52 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Are we having government problems?
3135 2011-02-10 21:09:54 <genjix> but I wanted to ask you
3136 2011-02-10 21:09:54 <luke-jr> Zelig_: bitcoin over tor is pretty anonymous
3137 2011-02-10 21:10:27 <citiz3n> they'll have a lot of trouble shutting down bitcoin users
3138 2011-02-10 21:10:28 <Zelig_> luke-jr:  If bitcoin got _that_ far, you'd already be three-quarters there, according to Ghandi.  Kind of like wikileaks now.
3139 2011-02-10 21:10:31 <citiz3n> if they don't know their identity
3140 2011-02-10 21:10:43 <genjix> gavinandresen: it uses Qt (PySide) and to use it you have to install (on Windows) Python, Qt4, Pyside. All very easy, click next next finish.
3141 2011-02-10 21:10:44 <Zelig_> 'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win'.
3142 2011-02-10 21:10:47 <citiz3n> plus, you have bitcoin users all over the globe
3143 2011-02-10 21:10:57 <genjix> gavinandresen: linux is easy to install too.
3144 2011-02-10 21:11:00 <citiz3n> different laws, different customs, different obstacles for governments
3145 2011-02-10 21:11:05 <luke-jr> Zelig_: Tonal is between steps 1 and 2 ☹
3146 2011-02-10 21:11:13 <luke-jr> actually, maybe a little in step 3 now
3147 2011-02-10 21:11:21 bk128 has joined
3148 2011-02-10 21:11:29 <gavinandresen> genjix:  ah, nice!  I didn't even notice that wasn't the stock bitcoin client.... (I'm a command-line kind of guy myself)
3149 2011-02-10 21:11:31 <genjix> gavinandresen: but by writing in python, we can quickly make fast changes and try lots of designs (concentrate on designing rather than programming)
3150 2011-02-10 21:11:41 <Zelig_> 'Tonal':  Term of art?  Is that a bitcoin related term?
3151 2011-02-10 21:12:02 <luke-jr> Zelig_: it's a number system, competes against decimal/SI
3152 2011-02-10 21:12:11 <genjix> gavinandresen: I'm just wondering whether it'd be a problem having those dependencies for windows
3153 2011-02-10 21:12:28 <luke-jr> Zelig_: http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/tonal-system/10991091
3154 2011-02-10 21:12:29 <genjix> it'd be beneficial if the wx client code would be split off from bitcoin, right?
3155 2011-02-10 21:12:32 <gavinandresen> genjix:  can it all be wrapped up in a nice installer that Just Works?
3156 2011-02-10 21:12:34 <luke-jr> genjix: yes
3157 2011-02-10 21:12:51 <genjix> idk, I have no idea about building windows installers
3158 2011-02-10 21:12:59 <tcatm> genjix: is that a client using the RPC?
3159 2011-02-10 21:13:08 <Zelig_> heh, luke: looking at the badgerpedia entry now. :)
3160 2011-02-10 21:13:11 <genjix> but at the base level it involves installing 3 packages and just click next next finish for all
3161 2011-02-10 21:13:18 <genjix> i had no problems myself in virtualbox.
3162 2011-02-10 21:13:20 <genjix> tcatm: yeah
3163 2011-02-10 21:13:23 <tcatm> cool
3164 2011-02-10 21:13:32 <luke-jr> Zelig_: badgerpedia?
3165 2011-02-10 21:13:37 <genjix> i added an intro screen for new users too
3166 2011-02-10 21:13:38 <Zelig_> Wikipedia.
3167 2011-02-10 21:13:39 <nanotube> so can rpc now display unmatured generations?
3168 2011-02-10 21:13:43 <nanotube> basically, all tx?
3169 2011-02-10 21:13:45 <genjix> when downloading block chain
3170 2011-02-10 21:13:45 <Zelig_> badger badger badger....
3171 2011-02-10 21:14:01 <gavinandresen> genjix: yeah... I don't think we can go backwards in terms of how many things a user has to download/install.
3172 2011-02-10 21:14:07 <nanotube> genjix: gavinandresen: probably can make windows installed with py2exe + nsis
3173 2011-02-10 21:14:22 <gavinandresen> I smell a project brewing!
3174 2011-02-10 21:14:35 <nanotube> er, installer, i mean.
3175 2011-02-10 21:15:32 <genjix> (not finished)... but it has a pretty intro while downloading the block chain, explaining new concepts and advertising bitcoin services (what to do, faucet, where to buy, things to buy)
3176 2011-02-10 21:15:37 <genjix> http://blog.sudobits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/install_ubuntu_10_04_from_usb_stick.jpg
3177 2011-02-10 21:15:38 <gavinandresen> I like the idea of replacing the wxWidgets GUI.  We don't seem to have anybody who either knows or wants to learn wxWidgets to improve current GUI
3178 2011-02-10 21:16:01 <genjix> well im experienced with Qt (both python/C++)
3179 2011-02-10 21:16:17 <genjix> i can rewrite in C++ but it means I can't design as fast to make a pretty client
3180 2011-02-10 21:16:30 <genjix> (for the future)
3181 2011-02-10 21:16:31 <albertid> how long do I have to wait on average until my first coin is created?
3182 2011-02-10 21:16:31 <tcatm> python is fine for a GUI
3183 2011-02-10 21:16:38 <albertid> 1 day, 1 week, 1 month?
3184 2011-02-10 21:17:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there's already a replacement in-progress
3185 2011-02-10 21:17:15 <genjix> tcatm: yeah the problem is the dependencies. nanotube says you can bundle a bunch but i want to know more about how that could work.
3186 2011-02-10 21:17:16 <luke-jr> albertid: you don't create coins, you buy them or trade for them
3187 2011-02-10 21:17:21 <gavinandresen> albertid:  if you've got a typical PC, a year or more.
3188 2011-02-10 21:17:35 <luke-jr> albertid: you can generate 50 BTC at a time, but it will likely take years
3189 2011-02-10 21:17:51 <albertid> ok thx
3190 2011-02-10 21:18:06 <nanotube> genjix: py2exe should be able to handle it.
3191 2011-02-10 21:18:09 <nanotube> won't know til we try
3192 2011-02-10 21:18:12 <nanotube> but it's pretty good
3193 2011-02-10 21:18:19 <Kiba> 230 people online at the forum
3194 2011-02-10 21:18:20 <Kiba> wow
3195 2011-02-10 21:18:20 <albertid> will this probability rise significantly when I have a cluster with 100 pcs?
3196 2011-02-10 21:18:23 <genjix> ok
3197 2011-02-10 21:18:27 <necrodearia> interesting: http://metagovernment.org/wiki/Collaborative_governance
3198 2011-02-10 21:18:28 <tcatm> gavinandresen: are you going to remove wxgui completely from the code once we have a replacement?
3199 2011-02-10 21:18:39 <nanotube> albertid: yes, about 100 times :)
3200 2011-02-10 21:18:55 <gavinandresen> albertid:  sure, but you'll pay more in electricity than you get in bitcoins...  GPUs are the only really cost-effective way of generating bitcoins these days
3201 2011-02-10 21:19:07 Guest55715 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3202 2011-02-10 21:19:08 <nanotube> unless you have free power. :)
3203 2011-02-10 21:19:21 <albertid> I see
3204 2011-02-10 21:19:25 <luke-jr> albertid: 100 PCs won't drasticly make it faster
3205 2011-02-10 21:19:41 <gavinandresen> tcatm:  you mean "are WE going to remove..."    Sure, if we've got something easier to compile and better than curernt GUI I think we should get rid of the old wx GUI
3206 2011-02-10 21:19:59 <luke-jr> albertid: my new Sandy Bridge CPU+GPU is capable of about 5 MH/s:
3207 2011-02-10 21:20:01 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 5000
3208 2011-02-10 21:20:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 36 weeks, 6 days, 11 hours, 20 minutes, and 8 seconds
3209 2011-02-10 21:20:17 <luke-jr> so 36 weeks, at the current difficulty; difficulty goes up every 2 weeks or so
3210 2011-02-10 21:20:31 psymin has joined
3211 2011-02-10 21:20:31 <luke-jr> my new Radeon 5850 is capable of 265 MH/s
3212 2011-02-10 21:20:34 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
3213 2011-02-10 21:20:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 38 seconds
3214 2011-02-10 21:21:03 <tcatm> gavinandresen: Then I'll keep my nogui branch in sync with integration :)
3215 2011-02-10 21:21:13 <luke-jr> and FWIW, Nvidia is crap and even their best card can only do a fraction of what ATi's can
3216 2011-02-10 21:21:25 <genjix> well that's a problem cos I doubt many people know about creating bundle installers for windows :p
3217 2011-02-10 21:21:36 <gavinandresen> genjix:  If you're communicating with bitcoind via RPC, how do you stop bitcoind when the user quits the GUI?
3218 2011-02-10 21:21:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: "stop"? :p
3219 2011-02-10 21:21:50 <gavinandresen> (oh, wait, there's the RPC stop command, isn't there...)
3220 2011-02-10 21:21:52 <genjix> gavinandresen: i don't... why would you want to do that?
3221 2011-02-10 21:21:52 hozer has joined
3222 2011-02-10 21:21:55 <gavinandresen> (duh)
3223 2011-02-10 21:22:04 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: also, why not support JSON-RPC over stdio? ;)
3224 2011-02-10 21:22:13 <tcatm> yes there's a stop RPC
3225 2011-02-10 21:22:20 <genjix> but there's a system tray logo i can add stop/start to... but don't see the point :p
3226 2011-02-10 21:22:20 Zelig_ has left ("Leaving")
3227 2011-02-10 21:22:32 <gavinandresen> genjix:  oh, I dunno, I think users might not want bitcoin running on their systems all the time.
3228 2011-02-10 21:22:57 <tcatm> stop is needed so you can umount your encrypted drive containing your wallet
3229 2011-02-10 21:23:05 <nanotube> genjix: i've done it. so if you have a python client for me, i bet i could try making an installer with py2exe for you. :)
3230 2011-02-10 21:23:20 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: my idea is: first run, the GUI prompts the user with 2 modes: 1) Run its own wallet (via stdio), or 2) connect to a (24/7) RPC server
3231 2011-02-10 21:23:36 <genjix> excellent. I'll hack a simple dialog then.
3232 2011-02-10 21:23:53 <tcatm> and it shouldn't start bitcoind automatically and support multiple bitcoinds (profile with host/port/userpass, default being localhost)
3233 2011-02-10 21:23:55 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: for option 1, it (by default) is not accessible by any other apps (since there's no listening socket), and shuts down when you close the GUI
3234 2011-02-10 21:25:19 btcex has joined
3235 2011-02-10 21:25:23 <btcex> hi all!
3236 2011-02-10 21:25:50 <btcex> I am got new computer with 4 cores and ATI Radeon and want to start mining
3237 2011-02-10 21:25:56 <hozer> I just started reading about Bitcoin, and I'm wondering if there's a standard .deb binary for the miner... I potentially have access to low-cost power, and am trying to figure out if it is at all possible to get cost recovery on hardware to provide some sort of useful service to bitcoin users
3238 2011-02-10 21:25:56 <genjix> hey btcex :)
3239 2011-02-10 21:26:04 <btcex> what miner recommended to use with debian?
3240 2011-02-10 21:26:10 <btcex> genjix: hey!
3241 2011-02-10 21:26:14 <nanotube> hozer: only if you have a gpu
3242 2011-02-10 21:26:14 <genjix> hozer: not standard but someone made packages
3243 2011-02-10 21:26:22 <xelister> hi btcex
3244 2011-02-10 21:26:29 <edcba> don't mine there is already too much ppl !
3245 2011-02-10 21:26:30 <nanotube> hozer: if you use cpu... then unless power is just about free, you won't make profit.
3246 2011-02-10 21:26:32 <tcatm> btcex: Diablo's or oclminer
3247 2011-02-10 21:26:34 <xelister> btcex: 4 cores of cpu? well, the GPU is most important ;) what GPU do you have
3248 2011-02-10 21:26:39 <edcba> bitcoin is failure go away !
3249 2011-02-10 21:26:52 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is failure!?
3250 2011-02-10 21:26:53 * Diablo-D3 SELLS
3251 2011-02-10 21:26:57 <edcba> yes sells
3252 2011-02-10 21:26:58 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, I dont have many to sell :<
3253 2011-02-10 21:26:59 <edcba> !
3254 2011-02-10 21:27:05 <gavinandresen> Don't listen to them, the more the merrier
3255 2011-02-10 21:27:18 <Diablo-D3> even in bitcoins, I am poor
3256 2011-02-10 21:27:21 <edcba> better sell now while bitcoin is high :)
3257 2011-02-10 21:27:25 <btcex> xelister: built-in ATI Radeon HD 4250
3258 2011-02-10 21:27:30 <hozer> nanotube: Actually, if I can access the MISO real-time power prices, I can get paid to use energy about 10% of the time (when it's windy in Iowa)
3259 2011-02-10 21:27:48 <blue__> how can i start mining with my bucket and spade ?
3260 2011-02-10 21:27:48 <btcex> edcba: I do same things in russian segment of forum :)
3261 2011-02-10 21:28:02 <nanotube> hozer: nice :)
3262 2011-02-10 21:28:13 <Mango-chan> [13:20:46] <btcex> xelister: built-in ATI Radeon HD 4250
3263 2011-02-10 21:28:19 <Mango-chan> invest in at least a 5870
3264 2011-02-10 21:28:23 <Mango-chan> well
3265 2011-02-10 21:28:25 <Mango-chan> 5970
3266 2011-02-10 21:28:27 <Mango-chan> or 2x 5850
3267 2011-02-10 21:28:31 <Kiba> Diablo-D3 is always poor
3268 2011-02-10 21:28:32 <btcex> Mango-chan: no, no. mining is just for fun
3269 2011-02-10 21:28:46 <hozer> or at the very least, put up a wind turbine on a farm, and run a miner when there's excess energy
3270 2011-02-10 21:28:50 <Mango-chan> you're not really providing any service to bitcoin users
3271 2011-02-10 21:29:00 <genjix> nanotube: http://uploading.com/files/77c2cebf/test.tar.gz/
3272 2011-02-10 21:29:38 tommyjohn has joined
3273 2011-02-10 21:29:44 <btcex> and? what GPU-miner for ATI recommended?
3274 2011-02-10 21:29:55 <tommyjohn> hey gusy
3275 2011-02-10 21:29:58 <Mango-chan> 5970
3276 2011-02-10 21:30:02 <Mango-chan> is the most power efficient one
3277 2011-02-10 21:30:07 <Mango-chan> but it's also the most expensive piece of card
3278 2011-02-10 21:30:12 <Mango-chan> so get 2 5850 or 2 5870
3279 2011-02-10 21:30:13 <tommyjohn> hey guys i am looking to buy some bitcoin
3280 2011-02-10 21:30:18 <hozer> any FPGA miner's out there?
3281 2011-02-10 21:30:21 <genjix> nanotube: you also need, http://qt.nokia.com/downloads, http://python.org/download/, http://developer.qt.nokia.com/wiki/PySide_Binaries_Windows (make sure PySide/Python match version numbers)
3282 2011-02-10 21:30:22 <Mango-chan> FPGA?
3283 2011-02-10 21:30:33 <tommyjohn> i would like to buy bitcoin with a visa giftcard i just purchase
3284 2011-02-10 21:30:35 <tommyjohn> d
3285 2011-02-10 21:30:36 <btcex> may me something lost in translation? I seek for software for GPU mining
3286 2011-02-10 21:30:37 <genjix> nanotube: also bitcoind installed
3287 2011-02-10 21:30:40 <btcex> not for hardware
3288 2011-02-10 21:30:41 <hozer> Field Programmable Gate Array
3289 2011-02-10 21:30:52 <Mango-chan> Bth8
3290 2011-02-10 21:30:54 <Mango-chan> btcex
3291 2011-02-10 21:30:57 <Mango-chan> use the python miner
3292 2011-02-10 21:30:58 <Mango-chan> but
3293 2011-02-10 21:31:11 <Mango-chan> honestly i doubt a 4350 would be effective
3294 2011-02-10 21:31:11 <tommyjohn> would anyone like to sell me a few bitcoin in exchange for a visa gift card
3295 2011-02-10 21:31:14 <btcex> Mango-chan: python miner don't work on my debian
3296 2011-02-10 21:31:22 <nanotube> genjix: well, i dunno about bundling bitcoind. but the rest of the libs, once they're installed and accessible by python, py2exe should be able to pull them in.
3297 2011-02-10 21:31:28 <Mango-chan> are you sure?
3298 2011-02-10 21:32:06 <tommyjohn> would anyone like to sell me a few bitcoin in exchange for a visa gift card
3299 2011-02-10 21:32:07 <genjix> nanotube: ok. could I make a script that's run by py2exe that installs bitcoind or something? :p
3300 2011-02-10 21:32:09 <xelister> Mango-chan: actually is 5970 most effecive, what about 5870
3301 2011-02-10 21:32:14 <Mango-chan> btcex: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.220
3302 2011-02-10 21:32:16 <Mango-chan> xelister they are rare
3303 2011-02-10 21:32:20 <Mango-chan> it's the most effective
3304 2011-02-10 21:32:23 <genjix> (not sure how windows works)
3305 2011-02-10 21:32:24 <Mango-chan> but a card can cost you like what
3306 2011-02-10 21:32:25 <Mango-chan> 700%
3307 2011-02-10 21:32:27 <Mango-chan> 700$
3308 2011-02-10 21:32:34 <Mango-chan> if you're looking for a fast return
3309 2011-02-10 21:32:40 <Mango-chan> having 2 5850s would be faster
3310 2011-02-10 21:32:43 <xelister> 5770 5850 5870 5970 are almost the same, but actually 5870 seemed a bit BETTER (like 5% better) about Mhash/W and MHash/card-cost
3311 2011-02-10 21:32:48 <gavinandresen> tommyjohn:  try asking in #bitcoin-otc
3312 2011-02-10 21:33:03 <Mango-chan> what rates does the 5770 get?
3313 2011-02-10 21:33:07 mtgox has joined
3314 2011-02-10 21:33:08 blue__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3315 2011-02-10 21:33:14 <tommyjohn> bitcoin-otc is that a forum or other chat
3316 2011-02-10 21:33:20 <xelister> Mango-chan: 5770 is 160 Mhash, up to around 170, 173 when overclocked
3317 2011-02-10 21:33:24 <genjix> mtgox: finished the trade yet?
3318 2011-02-10 21:33:46 tommyjohn has quit (Client Quit)
3319 2011-02-10 21:33:47 albertid has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
3320 2011-02-10 21:33:52 <Mango-chan> i need a better case and a bigger motherboard
3321 2011-02-10 21:33:53 <nanotube> genjix: the bundling of bitcoind will be done later, via the NSIS installer-packager.
3322 2011-02-10 21:33:57 <gavinandresen> tommyjohn: IRC chat channel
3323 2011-02-10 21:34:05 <Mango-chan> using an r3 + 2 6950 = vroooooooooooom
3324 2011-02-10 21:34:05 <nanotube> genjix: s/will/can/ (if we so desire)
3325 2011-02-10 21:34:24 <genjix> awesome, that's great.
3326 2011-02-10 21:34:35 <genjix> what version of windows should i download?
3327 2011-02-10 21:34:35 <nanotube> of course... someone would actually have to build that :)
3328 2011-02-10 21:34:39 <genjix> windows 7?
3329 2011-02-10 21:34:43 <nanotube> genjix: love that question :) haha
3330 2011-02-10 21:34:47 <nanotube> any version is fine
3331 2011-02-10 21:34:48 <genjix> that's what everybody uses today?
3332 2011-02-10 21:34:56 <nanotube> i don't have windows
3333 2011-02-10 21:35:07 <nanotube> as far as numbers, i'm not sure if 7 has overtaken XP yet
3334 2011-02-10 21:35:09 <genjix> > virtualbox <
3335 2011-02-10 21:35:17 <nanotube> yea i have an xp vm in vbox :)
3336 2011-02-10 21:35:21 <nanotube> haven't fired it up in ages
3337 2011-02-10 21:35:34 <genjix> ill ask on forums i suppose
3338 2011-02-10 21:36:34 <cosurgi> guys, what are red volume bars on http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD ?
3339 2011-02-10 21:37:14 <cosurgi> tcatm: what are red volume bars on http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD ?
3340 2011-02-10 21:37:34 <tcatm> cosurgi: lastprice lower then open
3341 2011-02-10 21:37:40 <cosurgi> ok, thanks.
3342 2011-02-10 21:37:54 <cosurgi> darkpool trades are not included in the chart?
3343 2011-02-10 21:38:02 <genjix> Sirius: you should hand the site to MagicalTux if there's problems. His servers are stable i think
3344 2011-02-10 21:38:46 aJW-[u] has joined
3345 2011-02-10 21:40:51 <Kiba> The bitcoin site should pay for the hosting service in bitcoin
3346 2011-02-10 21:41:43 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3347 2011-02-10 21:41:53 <Mango-chan> any gpu pros
3348 2011-02-10 21:42:36 gr0gmint has joined
3349 2011-02-10 21:42:54 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3350 2011-02-10 21:43:02 luke-jr has joined
3351 2011-02-10 21:50:34 * Kiba decides on the order of work today
3352 2011-02-10 21:50:47 <Kiba> top of the foodchain: that tetris game I was working on
3353 2011-02-10 21:50:48 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3354 2011-02-10 21:51:16 Phoebus_ has joined
3355 2011-02-10 21:54:05 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3356 2011-02-10 21:54:40 <genjix> gavinandresen: so nano says he should be able to create a unified installer. apart from that is everything OK? if so i'll throw my energies into making this.
3357 2011-02-10 21:55:01 <luke-jr> genjix: if it's a Qt client, I'll help too
3358 2011-02-10 21:55:04 <genjix> (obv no bugs, beta stage and functioning good)
3359 2011-02-10 21:55:15 <luke-jr> genjix: but seems redundant seeing as MT`AwAy is already making one
3360 2011-02-10 21:55:16 caution has joined
3361 2011-02-10 21:55:49 <genjix> well because it has a core class, it should be easy to switch backends
3362 2011-02-10 21:55:52 <gavinandresen> I don't want to be the gatekeeper for which GUI is "the right GUI" ....
3363 2011-02-10 21:55:58 <genjix> and i think MT`AwAy is making a core
3364 2011-02-10 21:56:12 gr0gmint has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3365 2011-02-10 21:56:18 <gavinandresen> So genjix:  get a bunch of people to start using your GUI and lobbying for it to replace the current GUI, then submit a patch....
3366 2011-02-10 21:56:29 <genjix> yep
3367 2011-02-10 21:56:55 <genjix> well prob better to keep them in seperate branches but synchronised releases
3368 2011-02-10 21:57:03 <gavinandresen> It might make sense to eventually have the 'core' bitcoin code be just bitcoind.  And let a thousand GUIs bloom
3369 2011-02-10 21:57:07 <genjix> *repos
3370 2011-02-10 21:57:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: better, IMO, is to just focus on the core, and let GUIs bundle it
3371 2011-02-10 21:57:19 <genjix> yep
3372 2011-02-10 21:57:26 <nanotube> gavinandresen: ++ on that.
3373 2011-02-10 21:57:43 doublec has joined
3374 2011-02-10 21:57:47 <gavinandresen> ... then we can argue over which GUI the main bitcoin.org site should recommend....
3375 2011-02-10 21:57:52 <luke-jr> hmm
3376 2011-02-10 21:58:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: maybe a table with features? :P
3377 2011-02-10 21:58:19 <luke-jr> probably too confusing
3378 2011-02-10 21:58:25 <genjix> well if MT`AwAy is writing a new bitcoin core, then likely it'd be the best one
3379 2011-02-10 21:58:33 akem_ has left ("Leaving")
3380 2011-02-10 21:58:34 <luke-jr> just sell the .org space ot the highest bidder every year?
3381 2011-02-10 21:58:35 <genjix> (clean code, using Qt)
3382 2011-02-10 21:58:44 <luke-jr> genjix: MT`AwAy's core is C I think
3383 2011-02-10 21:59:13 <btcex> Why not D? :)
3384 2011-02-10 21:59:18 <genjix> no it's Qt
3385 2011-02-10 21:59:18 <wsc9tt> a "core" shouldn't have any GUI built in, so Qt makes no sense at all
3386 2011-02-10 21:59:20 <luke-jr> because D is dead :P
3387 2011-02-10 21:59:22 <genjix> Qt is C++ only
3388 2011-02-10 21:59:26 <btcex> luke-jr: proof?
3389 2011-02-10 21:59:26 <luke-jr> genjix: his GUI is Qt, not the core
3390 2011-02-10 21:59:31 mtgox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3391 2011-02-10 21:59:35 <luke-jr> btcex: D doesn't have a fast ECMAScript interp
3392 2011-02-10 21:59:43 <genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/QBitcoin
3393 2011-02-10 21:59:44 <luke-jr> wsc9tt: Qt isn't only for GUI
3394 2011-02-10 21:59:46 <genjix> says it depends on Qt
3395 2011-02-10 21:59:53 mtgox has joined
3396 2011-02-10 21:59:56 <genjix> CORE: DB format will be sqlite3 (using QtSql, except for the wallet)
3397 2011-02-10 22:00:05 <btcex> luke-jr: ha! http://www.digitalmars.com/dscript/index.html
3398 2011-02-10 22:00:13 <luke-jr> genjix: except for the wallet
3399 2011-02-10 22:00:24 <luke-jr> btcex: I said fast
3400 2011-02-10 22:00:27 <genjix> CORE: OpenSSL optional, only if you want to enable API SSL (uses Qt's dynamic linking to openssl for binary version, compiling yourself will * depend on how you configured Qt)
3401 2011-02-10 22:00:32 <genjix> another Qt dependency
3402 2011-02-10 22:00:37 Tritonio has joined
3403 2011-02-10 22:00:37 <btcex> luke-jr: ECMA + FAST = 1/0
3404 2011-02-10 22:00:49 <luke-jr> btcex: V8. SquirrelFish Extreme.
3405 2011-02-10 22:01:04 <luke-jr> genjix: most of QBitCoin is Qt. Just not the core/wallet.
3406 2011-02-10 22:01:39 <genjix> but the API is? that doesn't make sense...
3407 2011-02-10 22:01:57 <luke-jr> the API is JSON-RPC (v2)
3408 2011-02-10 22:02:25 <Sirius> genjix: it's better if we can stay on multiple servers. Bitcoin.org has been fine so far when not slashdotted, but I'll see if I can make it cope with high load better.
3409 2011-02-10 22:03:06 <genjix> ok
3410 2011-02-10 22:03:17 <luke-jr> Sirius: poke
3411 2011-02-10 22:03:45 <tcatm> cosurgi: dark pool orders will show in chart but not in orderbook
3412 2011-02-10 22:04:43 <Sirius> genjix: I like the idea of making bitcoin.org a pretty, human-language page for non-geeks :) and leaving bitcoin.it for pros
3413 2011-02-10 22:04:54 <cosurgi> tcatm: ok.
3414 2011-02-10 22:04:59 <genjix> ok
3415 2011-02-10 22:05:11 <cosurgi> tcatm: does this take into account darkpool? http://www.taters.net/cgi-bin/btc/matrix.pl?axisinc=0.01
3416 2011-02-10 22:05:17 <btcex> Sirius: good idea
3417 2011-02-10 22:05:26 <genjix> bitcoin needs a colour scheme first
3418 2011-02-10 22:05:27 <tcatm> cosurgi: no
3419 2011-02-10 22:05:30 <cosurgi> ok.
3420 2011-02-10 22:05:37 <genjix> for the client/website/apps
3421 2011-02-10 22:05:41 <btcex> genjix: and brandbook :)
3422 2011-02-10 22:06:08 <genjix> yep... not necessarily a logo, but some kind of association
3423 2011-02-10 22:06:39 Zelig_ has joined
3424 2011-02-10 22:06:39 <btcex> Sirius: may be put wiki engine into main page?
3425 2011-02-10 22:06:56 <btcex> but not wikimedia :)
3426 2011-02-10 22:08:19 <Kiba> wikimedia isn't the software
3427 2011-02-10 22:08:22 <Kiba> it's a foundation
3428 2011-02-10 22:08:25 <Kiba> mediawiki is the software
3429 2011-02-10 22:08:40 <Sirius> btcex: nah, wikis are no good for a visual site
3430 2011-02-10 22:10:07 brunner has joined
3431 2011-02-10 22:10:29 <luke-jr> Sirius: it can look just like a normal site if you skin it :p
3432 2011-02-10 22:10:59 <luke-jr> but static pages handle slashdotting better I bet
3433 2011-02-10 22:11:12 <Sirius> true
3434 2011-02-10 22:11:32 <btcex> Sirius: nah means on russian same as on english :)
3435 2011-02-10 22:11:51 * Kiba ponders about writing a rails site to replace the forum that the community is using
3436 2011-02-10 22:12:00 * luke-jr glares at Kiba.
3437 2011-02-10 22:12:03 <Sirius> cool :)
3438 2011-02-10 22:12:05 Phoebus_ is now known as Phoebus
3439 2011-02-10 22:12:11 * luke-jr ponders whether he's more anti-Ruby or anti-proprietary. <.<
3440 2011-02-10 22:12:16 <Kiba> too much of a project for me
3441 2011-02-10 22:12:20 <donpdonp> what the megahash/s rate for an ATI 6970 card? newegg link: http://bit.ly/gcxB4t
3442 2011-02-10 22:12:26 <Kiba> maybe later when I am rich
3443 2011-02-10 22:12:29 <Kiba> and have lot of time
3444 2011-02-10 22:13:22 <btcex> Sirius: I think that would be difficult to provide multi-lingual interface without wikiengine
3445 2011-02-10 22:13:30 <Kiba> my goal is to establish myself as a self-maintaining entity in the bitcoin world
3446 2011-02-10 22:13:51 <Kiba> be the world first bitcoiner who make his living entirely through the bitcoin economy
3447 2011-02-10 22:14:09 <btcex> Sirius: (bitcoinme.com as failure attempt)
3448 2011-02-10 22:14:22 <Sirius> Kiba: I thought Madhatter did that already
3449 2011-02-10 22:14:28 <genjix> me goal is to sell games for bitcoins
3450 2011-02-10 22:14:34 <Kiba> don't know
3451 2011-02-10 22:14:34 <genjix> *make
3452 2011-02-10 22:14:42 <Kiba> genjix: make game?
3453 2011-02-10 22:14:48 <Kiba> maybe we could team up on a project
3454 2011-02-10 22:14:48 <andrew12> Kiba: how old are you?
3455 2011-02-10 22:14:52 <Kiba> I am 19
3456 2011-02-10 22:14:55 brunner has quit (Client Quit)
3457 2011-02-10 22:14:58 <Kiba> I have 700 BTC
3458 2011-02-10 22:14:58 <andrew12> interesting
3459 2011-02-10 22:15:19 <Kiba> another thousand dollars in my debit card
3460 2011-02-10 22:15:21 <genjix> maybe, but I have to own the design
3461 2011-02-10 22:15:40 <Kiba> you don't like the public domain?
3462 2011-02-10 22:15:42 <genjix> i worked on blenders project apricot
3463 2011-02-10 22:15:56 <genjix> was supposed to be the designer but... shitty policits :p
3464 2011-02-10 22:16:08 <genjix> i mean, design-dictator
3465 2011-02-10 22:16:49 * Kiba have to complete a game project for his portfolio
3466 2011-02-10 22:16:53 <Kiba> need to search for more clients
3467 2011-02-10 22:16:53 <genjix> anyway that's long term
3468 2011-02-10 22:17:14 <genjix> you won't find clients... just make games if you love making games.
3469 2011-02-10 22:17:30 <genjix> i should know
3470 2011-02-10 22:17:33 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3471 2011-02-10 22:17:37 <Kiba> I am thinking when I make enough myself to be independent, I pursue a degree in mechanical engineering or biology so I can help solve death
3472 2011-02-10 22:17:55 <Kiba> genjix: I have a client
3473 2011-02-10 22:18:47 <Kiba> anyway
3474 2011-02-10 22:18:50 <Kiba> see ya a bit
3475 2011-02-10 22:18:54 <Kiba> will be back soon
3476 2011-02-10 22:18:55 <andrew12> didn't expect that to work
3477 2011-02-10 22:18:56 <Kiba> with HOT WINGS
3478 2011-02-10 22:19:08 <gwillen> andrew12: haha, it does work, but in some channels it will get you banned
3479 2011-02-10 22:19:20 <andrew12> indeed
3480 2011-02-10 22:19:32 <andrew12> freenode's cool. :p
3481 2011-02-10 22:19:35 <gwillen> andrew12: some clients give irritating popups or otherwise misbehave in response to that
3482 2011-02-10 22:19:39 * nanotube prepares the banhammer
3483 2011-02-10 22:19:42 lumos has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3484 2011-02-10 22:19:42 <gwillen> well, there is a channel mode +C to disable it I think
3485 2011-02-10 22:19:48 <andrew12> gwillen: clients must die
3486 2011-02-10 22:19:52 <gwillen> heh
3487 2011-02-10 22:19:56 <andrew12> er, bad clients
3488 2011-02-10 22:19:58 <andrew12> heh
3489 2011-02-10 22:20:00 <gwillen> mostly it's Pidgin that does that I think
3490 2011-02-10 22:20:01 <nanotube> yea, blame the client, not the channel. ;)
3491 2011-02-10 22:20:03 <gwillen> which is not realy meant for IRC
3492 2011-02-10 22:20:07 <andrew12> anyways, brb
3493 2011-02-10 22:20:25 <btcex> Kiba: and you said what you are 19? you're halfway into the Cuckoo's Nest :3
3494 2011-02-10 22:20:31 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|blames nanotube 
3495 2011-02-10 22:21:03 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Let's see if this works
3496 2011-02-10 22:21:05 <luke-jr> it IS the client's fault
3497 2011-02-10 22:21:13 <Kiba> Cuckoo's nest?
3498 2011-02-10 22:21:16 <luke-jr> notices are supposed to appear the same as privmsgs
3499 2011-02-10 22:21:19 <genjix> nope
3500 2011-02-10 22:21:23 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3501 2011-02-10 22:21:25 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|fucking shit
3502 2011-02-10 22:21:30 <luke-jr> the difference being that bots are forbidden to respond to notices
3503 2011-02-10 22:21:30 <gwillen> nameless|: it worked
3504 2011-02-10 22:21:34 <genjix> does anyone see my notices?
3505 2011-02-10 22:21:37 Phoebus_ has joined
3506 2011-02-10 22:21:40 <gwillen> genjix: yes
3507 2011-02-10 22:21:43 <nanotube> genjix: i saw
3508 2011-02-10 22:21:44 <genjix> oh sweet
3509 2011-02-10 22:21:45 <luke-jr> genjix: stfu already
3510 2011-02-10 22:21:45 <gwillen> genjix: fuckin' stop that
3511 2011-02-10 22:21:54 <luke-jr> bots are supposed to always use notices
3512 2011-02-10 22:22:06 <gwillen> genjix: in irssi, they are formatted differently from privmsgs
3513 2011-02-10 22:22:08 <gwillen> but otherwise appear similar
3514 2011-02-10 22:22:15 genjix has joined
3515 2011-02-10 22:22:17 <genjix> why do they exist?
3516 2011-02-10 22:22:19 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Shall we continue?
3517 2011-02-10 22:22:30 <genjix> it doesn't seem different to normal msgs?
3518 2011-02-10 22:23:26 <luke-jr> genjix: bots are forbidden to respond to NOTICEs
3519 2011-02-10 22:23:34 <luke-jr> and bots are supposed to only send NOTICEs to avoid loops
3520 2011-02-10 22:23:38 <gwillen> genjix: as luke-jr noted, bots are supposed to speak in NOTICEs, and not respond to other NOTICEs
3521 2011-02-10 22:23:49 <gwillen> the usage of this protocol in practice is limited
3522 2011-02-10 22:23:50 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|luke-jr: but most bots don't follow those rules
3523 2011-02-10 22:24:00 <btcex> Kiba: mental hospital
3524 2011-02-10 22:24:02 <genjix> seems a bit silly
3525 2011-02-10 22:24:04 <luke-jr> nameless|: well, I think most bots ignore notices at least
3526 2011-02-10 22:24:11 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|luke-jr: yeah
3527 2011-02-10 22:24:15 <luke-jr> genjix: it's necessary, in theory
3528 2011-02-10 22:24:29 <luke-jr> genjix: otherwise, bots can trigger other bots, which trigger the original bot, etc
3529 2011-02-10 22:24:31 <gwillen> irssi has the annoying property of hilighting windows that receive notices
3530 2011-02-10 22:24:39 <gwillen> I have not yet figured out how to make that stop
3531 2011-02-10 22:24:53 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|What the fuck? Freenode doesn't support blocking notices to a channel?
3532 2011-02-10 22:24:57 <genjix> gwillen: not for me?
3533 2011-02-10 22:25:04 <gwillen> interesting
3534 2011-02-10 22:25:06 <luke-jr> lol
3535 2011-02-10 22:25:20 <gwillen> then I may have done something to my irssi that makes it do that
3536 2011-02-10 22:25:23 <gwillen> but I still don't know what
3537 2011-02-10 22:25:23 <nanotube> nameless|: heh don't worry about it...
3538 2011-02-10 22:25:38 <genjix> i only get highlighting (notifcatons) on privmsg/nick highlights
3539 2011-02-10 22:25:52 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|nanotube: I'm not, I'll just kickban people if they do it :p
3540 2011-02-10 22:26:14 <nanotube> nameless|: hehe
3541 2011-02-10 22:26:34 <andrew12> oh god
3542 2011-02-10 22:26:39 <andrew12> i started a cancer
3543 2011-02-10 22:26:44 <luke-jr> nameless| just enabled it, so it's allowed :P
3544 2011-02-10 22:26:44 <gwillen> sure did
3545 2011-02-10 22:26:55 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|luke-jr: false
3546 2011-02-10 22:26:56 <gwillen> andrew12: you are a bad person and you should feel bad ;-)
3547 2011-02-10 22:27:05 <andrew12>  /part feel bad
3548 2011-02-10 22:27:07 <luke-jr> nameless|: if it's not allowed, then turn +C back on :P
3549 2011-02-10 22:27:08 <gwillen> haha, awww
3550 2011-02-10 22:27:17 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|luke-jr: It wasn't on before
3551 2011-02-10 22:27:22 <luke-jr> nameless|: +C blocks CTCPs :p
3552 2011-02-10 22:27:27 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I am aware
3553 2011-02-10 22:27:33 <luke-jr> btw
3554 2011-02-10 22:27:35 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|As I said, it was not on before
3555 2011-02-10 22:27:36 <luke-jr> a lot of irssi users here
3556 2011-02-10 22:27:40 <gwillen> luke-jr: there is an alternate theory of what the ops can do if they do not wish to allow CTCP and do not wish to argue with you about it ;-)
3557 2011-02-10 22:27:43 <andrew12> luke-jr: that's a good thing
3558 2011-02-10 22:27:52 <luke-jr> no, irssi is GTK crap :p
3559 2011-02-10 22:27:58 <gwillen> o_O
3560 2011-02-10 22:28:01 <gwillen> luke-jr: irssi is commandline
3561 2011-02-10 22:28:03 <gwillen> you are confused
3562 2011-02-10 22:28:07 Sirius is now known as sirius-m
3563 2011-02-10 22:28:14 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|ahh
3564 2011-02-10 22:28:16 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|silence
3565 2011-02-10 22:28:34 <luke-jr> gwillen: ldd it, it uses GTK libraries
3566 2011-02-10 22:29:12 sirius-m is now known as Sirius
3567 2011-02-10 22:29:16 <luke-jr> sirius-m: btw, why does satoshi get all the credit?
3568 2011-02-10 22:29:29 <luke-jr> I noticed you've been committing on the original client just as long as he has.
3569 2011-02-10 22:29:46 <gwillen> luke-jr: perhaps I am feeding a troll, but here is my ldd output: http://pastebin.com/JGQPt21Y
3570 2011-02-10 22:29:48 <andrew12> i dont see any gtk libraries in ldd `which irssi`
3571 2011-02-10 22:29:49 <gwillen> contains no GTK
3572 2011-02-10 22:29:49 <nanotube> Sirius: btw, while you are here, maybe set some chanserv flags for the regulars here
3573 2011-02-10 22:29:52 <gwillen> and there's no reason it would
3574 2011-02-10 22:30:02 <luke-jr>         libglib-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 (0x40180000)
3575 2011-02-10 22:30:10 <luke-jr>         libgmodule-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0 (0x4017c000)
3576 2011-02-10 22:30:11 <andrew12> glib isn't gtk iirc
3577 2011-02-10 22:30:15 <gwillen> glib != GTK
3578 2011-02-10 22:30:15 <Sirius> luke-jr: uh... he technically created bitcoin
3579 2011-02-10 22:30:19 <luke-jr> glib is GTK
3580 2011-02-10 22:30:47 <luke-jr> that's like saying QtCore isn't Qt
3581 2011-02-10 22:30:49 <genjix> Sirius: are you rich because of bitcoins?
3582 2011-02-10 22:30:55 <genjix> :D
3583 2011-02-10 22:31:27 <andrew12> ;;sl glib
3584 2011-02-10 22:31:27 <gribble> http://www.gtk.org/ | GLib 2.22 is a stable release adding an incremental improvement in functionality over GLib 2.20 while maintaining binary and source compatibility. ...
3585 2011-02-10 22:31:32 <Sirius> genjix: not really, I set the initial rate too low when I started bitcoinexchange.com
3586 2011-02-10 22:31:34 <andrew12> damn
3587 2011-02-10 22:31:39 <nanotube> andrew12: lol
3588 2011-02-10 22:31:42 <andrew12> i lose this one
3589 2011-02-10 22:32:01 <Sirius> but if we get a 20x increase, maybe then I'll buy a house :)
3590 2011-02-10 22:32:03 <gwillen> is Satoshi rich because of bitcoins?
3591 2011-02-10 22:32:09 <gwillen> I sure hope so ;-)
3592 2011-02-10 22:32:22 <gwillen> like, did the early devs all mine like crazy?
3593 2011-02-10 22:32:27 <gwillen> or were they too busy committing patches? ;-)
3594 2011-02-10 22:32:30 <andrew12> gwillen: of course they did
3595 2011-02-10 22:32:31 <doublec> satoshi probably had no idea bitcoins would take off, treated it as an experiment, and through away his old coins
3596 2011-02-10 22:32:33 <andrew12> they had to test it
3597 2011-02-10 22:32:37 <doublec> that would suck to see the value now :)
3598 2011-02-10 22:32:40 <gwillen> doublec: I mean, that's what I'm wondering
3599 2011-02-10 22:32:50 <gwillen> I know I regret not generating coins when I first discovered bitcouns
3600 2011-02-10 22:32:53 <gwillen> coins*
3601 2011-02-10 22:32:54 <andrew12> doublec: someone said that he said that he already has enough bitcoins and doesn't want people to send him more
3602 2011-02-10 22:32:57 <gwillen> I would have made a fair it by now
3603 2011-02-10 22:32:59 <gwillen> fair bit*
3604 2011-02-10 22:33:02 <Sirius> I think gpu barons are the rich guys :P
3605 2011-02-10 22:33:05 <gwillen> haha
3606 2011-02-10 22:33:38 <genjix> i sold 2.7k btc for $500 before this huge spike
3607 2011-02-10 22:33:54 <gwillen> hahaha, ouch
3608 2011-02-10 22:33:56 <gwillen> that's gotta hurt
3609 2011-02-10 22:34:02 <gwillen> I am looking at buying now
3610 2011-02-10 22:34:06 <gwillen> but it seems a bit difficult
3611 2011-02-10 22:34:07 <Sirius> somebody bought a pizza for 10,000...
3612 2011-02-10 22:34:15 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I stopped generating coins
3613 2011-02-10 22:34:15 <genjix> yeah but it's relative... i made 1k in a week once playing poker
3614 2011-02-10 22:34:17 <gwillen> need either a verified paypal account, or to send things through the mail
3615 2011-02-10 22:34:20 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|It's not worth it on my PC
3616 2011-02-10 22:34:36 <citiz3n> how can you lookup a paypal account to see it's verified
3617 2011-02-10 22:34:40 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Doesn't have any GPU's that are woth while
3618 2011-02-10 22:34:41 <citiz3n> before sending payment for example
3619 2011-02-10 22:34:43 <gwillen> not sure
3620 2011-02-10 22:34:48 <citiz3n> perhaps it shows up while you are sending
3621 2011-02-10 22:34:51 <citiz3n> on the confirmation page
3622 2011-02-10 22:34:53 <citiz3n> yes, i think it may
3623 2011-02-10 22:34:54 <gwillen> apparently if you get a payment you can tell if the sender is verified
3624 2011-02-10 22:35:02 <citiz3n> yes you can
3625 2011-02-10 22:36:37 <citiz3n> why in the world is bitcoin.org redirecting?
3626 2011-02-10 22:36:53 <gavinandresen> slashdot
3627 2011-02-10 22:36:54 <citiz3n> too much traffic brought the old site down?
3628 2011-02-10 22:43:48 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3629 2011-02-10 22:45:56 btcex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3630 2011-02-10 22:46:26 satamusic has joined
3631 2011-02-10 22:47:33 <Sirius> http://www.presidiacreative.com/the-10-prettiest-web-designs-of-2008/ Some good webdesigners. Worth considering, or too candy for bitcoin.org?
3632 2011-02-10 22:47:59 mtgox has joined
3633 2011-02-10 22:48:37 <andrew12> why doesn't bitcoin.it have a page for "block"
3634 2011-02-10 22:48:51 <andrew12> nevermind
3635 2011-02-10 22:49:19 Hackbat has joined
3636 2011-02-10 22:49:38 <Sirius> nanotube: set some flags.
3637 2011-02-10 22:50:12 <nanotube> Sirius: cool :)
3638 2011-02-10 22:50:37 Hackbat has quit (Client Quit)
3639 2011-02-10 22:51:21 Hackbat has joined
3640 2011-02-10 22:52:10 <dwdollar1> citiz3n:  https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=email
3641 2011-02-10 22:52:16 <dwdollar1> if your still curious
3642 2011-02-10 22:52:25 <dwdollar1> have to be logged in though
3643 2011-02-10 22:53:24 <dwdollar1> https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=dustin.dollar%40gmail.com
3644 2011-02-10 22:53:53 <Hackbat> So I need a little help wit the Bitcoin server stuff o.o I'm confused on how to get it running right, I'm using a windows box if that matters. I assume it'd be 5 times easier on a linux box.
3645 2011-02-10 22:53:58 <Hackbat> *with
3646 2011-02-10 22:55:57 <afed> Sell: For every 200 bitcoins sent to 1CRZpkKKAt7G5uiK4JPBjBJGnozgiatFAs you will receive $1.00 USD in cash by mail.
3647 2011-02-10 22:56:04 <afed> can we remove this idiot's offer from the web site?
3648 2011-02-10 22:56:11 <andrew12> where's the satoshi pdf? the original one?
3649 2011-02-10 22:56:28 <Sirius> andrew12: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
3650 2011-02-10 22:56:35 <andrew12> thanks
3651 2011-02-10 22:57:42 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3652 2011-02-10 22:58:28 molecular has joined
3653 2011-02-10 23:02:47 bulletbill has left ()
3654 2011-02-10 23:02:59 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 4111
3655 2011-02-10 23:03:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4111 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 44 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes, and 5 seconds
3656 2011-02-10 23:03:34 <luke-jr> afed: why?
3657 2011-02-10 23:04:27 * Kiba ordered 20 insanely hot wings
3658 2011-02-10 23:04:32 <Kiba> MUAHHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA
3659 2011-02-10 23:04:32 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3660 2011-02-10 23:04:46 * Kiba is a hot freak
3661 2011-02-10 23:05:03 <Syke> Ever met "The Man"?
3662 2011-02-10 23:05:48 <Syke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie%27s_BBQ
3663 2011-02-10 23:05:59 btcex has joined
3664 2011-02-10 23:06:12 <Diablo-D3> [05:57:59] * Kiba ordered 20 insanely hot wings
3665 2011-02-10 23:06:13 <Diablo-D3> 20?
3666 2011-02-10 23:06:15 <btcex> pyopencl problem: http://paste.org.ru/?mj5s7a
3667 2011-02-10 23:06:17 <Diablo-D3> shit dude, thats a snack
3668 2011-02-10 23:06:32 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|20?
3669 2011-02-10 23:06:41 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|shit dude, that's a fucking feast
3670 2011-02-10 23:06:42 <afed> luke-jr: not a realistic offer, not being updated, etc
3671 2011-02-10 23:06:52 <Diablo-D3> btcex: Device Count = 1
3672 2011-02-10 23:06:56 <luke-jr> afed: sure it's realistic
3673 2011-02-10 23:06:56 <Diablo-D3> as opposed to 2.
3674 2011-02-10 23:07:21 <btcex> Diablo-D3: ?
3675 2011-02-10 23:07:27 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
3676 2011-02-10 23:07:31 <luke-jr> afed: just not a very good deal
3677 2011-02-10 23:07:39 <Diablo-D3> btcex: cpu is a device too
3678 2011-02-10 23:07:43 <andrew12> glee
3679 2011-02-10 23:07:49 <andrew12> i got like 3 people interested in bitcoin :D
3680 2011-02-10 23:07:50 <genjix> Sirius: i will get on that site
3681 2011-02-10 23:07:58 <Hackbat> Do you think Bitcoins could be used with POS?
3682 2011-02-10 23:08:09 <Diablo-D3> btcex: poclbm asks for a list without the cpu, ergo, it finds one
3683 2011-02-10 23:08:10 <Diablo-D3> er
3684 2011-02-10 23:08:12 <Diablo-D3> none
3685 2011-02-10 23:08:36 <Kiba> nameless|: and INSANELY HOT
3686 2011-02-10 23:08:41 <Kiba> the hottest they have on the menu
3687 2011-02-10 23:08:52 <btcex> fglrx from debian contains driver for opencl?\
3688 2011-02-10 23:09:03 <luke-jr> btcex: there is no fglrx from Debian
3689 2011-02-10 23:09:04 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: probably, sure. but it is possible to scam unless the vendor is willing to wait a while for payment confirmation.
3690 2011-02-10 23:09:06 <Kiba> it was to celebrate the release from nasty fuild ritual last night
3691 2011-02-10 23:09:06 GoGi2 has joined
3692 2011-02-10 23:09:09 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
3693 2011-02-10 23:09:15 <Kiba> fluid*
3694 2011-02-10 23:09:17 <Diablo-D3> btcex: no
3695 2011-02-10 23:09:20 <Hackbat> that was waht I was thinking
3696 2011-02-10 23:09:24 <Kiba> which was for an colonscopy
3697 2011-02-10 23:09:25 <Diablo-D3> btcex: you have to get the sdk from amd
3698 2011-02-10 23:09:26 <btcex> luke-jr: fglrx-kernel-src
3699 2011-02-10 23:09:35 <Hackbat> you also have to have your node running for it to work
3700 2011-02-10 23:09:40 <GoGi2> Is there some technically accurate and complete description of the bitcoin system?
3701 2011-02-10 23:09:42 dukeleto has joined
3702 2011-02-10 23:09:44 <btcex> Diablo-D3: yes, FindNumDevices output from this sdk
3703 2011-02-10 23:09:59 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: it's only on average half of the ten-minute block generation though. Meanwhile, look here for more discussion: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=423.0
3704 2011-02-10 23:10:07 <gavinandresen> Hackbat:  see http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2628.0
3705 2011-02-10 23:10:18 <luke-jr> btcex: fglrx isn't open source either
3706 2011-02-10 23:10:23 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Guys, off-topic question real quick. Kindle or Nook? 3G on both, e-ink nook.
3707 2011-02-10 23:10:33 <gavinandresen> kindle
3708 2011-02-10 23:10:36 <btcex> luke-jr: non-free section, yes
3709 2011-02-10 23:10:50 <Diablo-D3> btcex: yes, and it doesnt find your video card.
3710 2011-02-10 23:10:54 <luke-jr> btcex: that's not part of Debian, officially, FYI
3711 2011-02-10 23:10:57 <Diablo-D3> btcex: what do you have for a video card?
3712 2011-02-10 23:11:12 <btcex> Diablo-D3: why? it already runs as videodriver and i am playing in 3d games
3713 2011-02-10 23:11:13 <lfm> GoGi2: depends what youd accept as "complete"
3714 2011-02-10 23:11:18 <luke-jr> btcex: is it really source?
3715 2011-02-10 23:11:20 <Diablo-D3> btcex: what. card.
3716 2011-02-10 23:11:32 n3yne has joined
3717 2011-02-10 23:11:32 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3718 2011-02-10 23:11:50 <btcex> Diablo-D3: http://paste.org.ru/?p3sw8u
3719 2011-02-10 23:12:03 <Diablo-D3> btcex: thats not a Radeon 4xxx. thats an IGP Radeon
3720 2011-02-10 23:12:08 <Diablo-D3> btcex: they do not support OpenCL
3721 2011-02-10 23:12:10 <btcex> aaand?
3722 2011-02-10 23:12:16 <btcex> heh
3723 2011-02-10 23:12:19 <GoGi2> lfm: I'm not sure but the faq is certainly not complete
3724 2011-02-10 23:12:21 <Diablo-D3> you need IGP 6xxx or Fusion IGP to do OpenCL
3725 2011-02-10 23:12:22 <btcex> carramba
3726 2011-02-10 23:12:35 <btcex> ok, thx
3727 2011-02-10 23:12:35 <GoGi2> for example, where do the problem come from that are solved using cpu time?
3728 2011-02-10 23:12:44 <lfm> GoGi2:  you should read Satoshi's pdf next then I spoze
3729 2011-02-10 23:12:50 <luke-jr> GoGi2: difficulty and last block and this block
3730 2011-02-10 23:13:20 <Hackbat> I would think you would need the ability to ask a node for bitcoins either that of have a smart card that you can flash with your privatekey that would transfer your wallet into it
3731 2011-02-10 23:13:41 <Hackbat> eiter way it would require the protocol to be updated o.o
3732 2011-02-10 23:14:54 <andrew12> ;;bc,mtgox
3733 2011-02-10 23:14:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.1,"low":0.8,"vol":26529,"buy":0.9265,"sell":0.9699,"last":0.97}}
3734 2011-02-10 23:15:26 <alystair> wow that volume's pretty impressive
3735 2011-02-10 23:15:29 <alystair> over what time frame is that?
3736 2011-02-10 23:15:52 <lfm> Hackbat: you can put a backup of your wallet.dat file on a thum drive
3737 2011-02-10 23:16:08 <andrew12> a thum drive
3738 2011-02-10 23:16:09 <andrew12> :p
3739 2011-02-10 23:16:13 n3yne has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3740 2011-02-10 23:16:13 isBitCoinOrgDown has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3741 2011-02-10 23:16:13 <andrew12> ;;bc,markets
3742 2011-02-10 23:16:14 <gribble> bcEUR: 0.7 (149.97 BTC) 0.64984/0.71 | bcLREUR: 0.7 (16 BTC) 0.62/0.78 | bcLRUSD: 0.95 (130 BTC) 0.9/1.18 | bcmLRUSD: 0.41 (500 BTC) 0.5/1.2 | bcmPPUSD: 1 (1100 BTC) 0.95/1.01 | bcmPXGAU: 0.02 (400 BTC) 0.0046/None | bcPGAU: 0.021 (28.5712 BTC) 0.0185/0.021 | btcexJPY: 0.0001 (0.03 BTC) None/None | btcexRUB: 27.3 (0.09 BTC) None/None | btcexWMR: 100 (1.08 BTC) None/None | mtgoxUSD: 0.97 (1 more message)
3743 2011-02-10 23:16:19 <andrew12> ;;more
3744 2011-02-10 23:16:19 <gribble> (26529.4 BTC) 0.9265/0.9699
3745 2011-02-10 23:16:28 <Hackbat> yes...but rhat wouldn't help you with POS o.o
3746 2011-02-10 23:16:43 <andrew12> POS?
3747 2011-02-10 23:16:51 <Hackbat> Point of sale
3748 2011-02-10 23:16:52 <midnightmagic> GoGi2: there is not, in one specifically central place. Satoshi's paper is primarily about one solution to the double-spend problem. Digital hashcash-like money has been an ancient idea. There are protocol descriptions, but unfortunately the authority at the moment is the source code.
3749 2011-02-10 23:17:03 btcex has quit (Quit: Тают запасы хвойного древостоя!..)
3750 2011-02-10 23:17:21 <lfm> Hackbat: actually I dont think bitcoin is designed to be used for POS except maybe for web sites
3751 2011-02-10 23:17:33 <midnightmagic> GoGi2: as far as I can tell, there is no specific, central location from which everything is simultaneously explained, and documented in such a way that a clean-room implementation could be written which is drop-in compatible with the current network. :)
3752 2011-02-10 23:17:36 <Hackbat> It could be done though
3753 2011-02-10 23:17:57 <lfm> Hackbat: your better to use local currewncy for that
3754 2011-02-10 23:18:08 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: only with third-party stuff, or people who were willing to wait a while for the txn to be confirmed.
3755 2011-02-10 23:18:37 <Kiba> so
3756 2011-02-10 23:18:43 <Kiba> we're trading below 1.00 for a while now
3757 2011-02-10 23:18:50 <andrew12> yay!
3758 2011-02-10 23:18:52 <Kiba> lfm: bitcoin bnak?
3759 2011-02-10 23:18:59 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3760 2011-02-10 23:19:00 <Kiba> s/bnak/bank
3761 2011-02-10 23:19:08 <Hackbat> I guess there could be a company you could give bitcoins in advance and they would manage a kard for you o.o
3762 2011-02-10 23:19:11 <andrew12> yum, bnak!
3763 2011-02-10 23:19:18 <Hackbat> idk
3764 2011-02-10 23:19:19 <Hackbat> lol
3765 2011-02-10 23:19:19 <lfm> well ya, maybe with mybiycoin.com or a bank like that
3766 2011-02-10 23:19:39 Shfork has joined
3767 2011-02-10 23:19:42 <lfm> andrew12: its not nice to point out everyone's typos
3768 2011-02-10 23:20:26 <GoGi2> okay I will state a specific question: where does the problem come from that is needed to create new coins?
3769 2011-02-10 23:20:36 <jgarzik> slush: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2647.msg46868#msg46868
3770 2011-02-10 23:20:42 <jgarzik> slush: rough outline of push mining in bitcoind
3771 2011-02-10 23:20:44 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: exactly what the thread that gavin pointed you at. it sounds like you're technical enough to understand the snack machine thread I sent you though. it's a really fun problem to think about, IMO.
3772 2011-02-10 23:20:59 <jgarzik> a rather obvious TCP server, plus broadcast-friendly binary protocol
3773 2011-02-10 23:21:00 <lfm> GoGi2: it is SHA256(SHA256(the block chain header))
3774 2011-02-10 23:21:11 <Hackbat> can you transfer wallets between clients?
3775 2011-02-10 23:21:21 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: only ones that trust one another.
3776 2011-02-10 23:21:42 <andrew12> i still don't get why you'd want sha256 twice
3777 2011-02-10 23:21:56 <luke-jr> GoGi2: the SHA256 lfm refers to, must be less than a specific value calculated every 2016 blocks, based on the time span across those 2016 blocks
3778 2011-02-10 23:21:58 <Hackbat> o.o how do I create trust?
3779 2011-02-10 23:22:01 <GoGi2> lfm: and where does the block chain header come from?
3780 2011-02-10 23:22:30 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: Mathematically prove that the protocol is trustworthy, or assume a third-party is trustworthy on faith.
3781 2011-02-10 23:23:11 <Hackbat> o.o I'm talking about copying the wallet from one pc to another
3782 2011-02-10 23:23:14 Phoebus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3783 2011-02-10 23:23:20 <lfm> gigo it is built by each node separatly from a hash of the previous block header and the current outstanding transactions includeing a special transaction for the 50 btc mining
3784 2011-02-10 23:23:26 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why not just use the WebSocket protocol?
3785 2011-02-10 23:23:32 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: Yeah, the problem is now both of you can spend the money, and it's a question of who gets that spend out to the network sooner.
3786 2011-02-10 23:23:49 <Kiba> what happen when there's 3 spend attempt?
3787 2011-02-10 23:23:51 <Hackbat> I see
3788 2011-02-10 23:23:52 <midnightmagic> Hackbat: hence, you gotta trust the person you are transferring wallets around tofrom.
3789 2011-02-10 23:23:55 <Kiba> from 3 different clients?
3790 2011-02-10 23:24:00 <midnightmagic> Kiba: it's a big race!
3791 2011-02-10 23:24:08 <lfm> GoGi2: it is built by each node separatly from a hash of the previous block header and the current outstanding transactions includeing a special transaction for the 50 btc mining
3792 2011-02-10 23:24:08 <Hackbat> I meant liek if you have multiple nodes lol
3793 2011-02-10 23:24:13 RBecker has joined
3794 2011-02-10 23:24:13 Mrcheesenips has joined
3795 2011-02-10 23:24:16 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
3796 2011-02-10 23:24:28 <andrew12> hi RBecker, Mrcheesenips!
3797 2011-02-10 23:24:33 <RBecker> hi andrew12
3798 2011-02-10 23:24:38 <Mrcheesenips> hi
3799 2011-02-10 23:24:50 <jgarzik> luke-jr: miners and clients spend time decoding text into binary, because a text-based protocol was chosen.  the most efficient choice for bitcoin is a binary protocol, that sends and receives binary structures...  quite like bitcoin's P2P protocol.
3800 2011-02-10 23:24:55 <GoGi2> lfm: and the first block is given?
3801 2011-02-10 23:25:12 Syke has joined
3802 2011-02-10 23:25:29 <lfm> gigoya the first block is also somewhat special given there is no previous block
3803 2011-02-10 23:25:41 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I see.
3804 2011-02-10 23:26:08 <luke-jr> GoGi2: the genesis block is hard-coded
3805 2011-02-10 23:26:33 <doublec> luke-jr: the websockets protocol is still being changed/designed so it might not be worthwhile building something long term on it
3806 2011-02-10 23:26:44 <GoGi2> ok
3807 2011-02-10 23:28:28 <lfm> GoGi2: the block header is always 80 bytes anyway
3808 2011-02-10 23:29:15 Cybergeek2021 has joined
3809 2011-02-10 23:29:57 Cybergeek2021 has quit (Client Quit)
3810 2011-02-10 23:31:34 <GoGi2> do you need wxgtk 2.9 to compile it?
3811 2011-02-10 23:31:36 temp has joined
3812 2011-02-10 23:31:47 <lfm> GoGi2: only for the gui version
3813 2011-02-10 23:31:51 <luke-jr> GoGi2: compiling bitcoin is basically impossible :P
3814 2011-02-10 23:32:00 <lfm> luke for you
3815 2011-02-10 23:32:22 <luke-jr> lfm: it's significantly more difficult than most other software
3816 2011-02-10 23:32:49 <luke-jr> and easier to reinvent the build system, that to try to make the existing one work
3817 2011-02-10 23:32:49 <lfm> luke-jr: yup, still a long way from impossible, several people have accoplished it
3818 2011-02-10 23:33:18 <GoGi2> 2.8 will not work?
3819 2011-02-10 23:33:18 <gavinandresen> Anybody here have experience getting Visual C++ not to suck?
3820 2011-02-10 23:33:25 <doublec> it's easy to build bitcoind
3821 2011-02-10 23:33:45 <doublec> gavinandresen: uninstalling it does the trick
3822 2011-02-10 23:33:49 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3823 2011-02-10 23:33:51 <luke-jr> doublec: even bitcoind, I never got working
3824 2011-02-10 23:33:54 <lfm> GoGi2:  ya a lot easier to just build bitcoind first without wx widgets
3825 2011-02-10 23:34:11 <gavinandresen> doublec: not an option, unfortunately....
3826 2011-02-10 23:34:12 <luke-jr> creating a QMake .pro file for bitcoind was all of like 5 minutes
3827 2011-02-10 23:34:57 <gavinandresen> More specific question: boost::thread api_caller(ReadHTTP, ref(stream), ref(mapHeaders), ref(strRequest));   ... makes visual c++ unhappy.
3828 2011-02-10 23:35:12 <tcatm> why bother with vc++?
3829 2011-02-10 23:35:32 temp has quit (Client Quit)
3830 2011-02-10 23:35:32 <doublec> gavinandresen: what version of vc++?
3831 2011-02-10 23:35:40 <gavinandresen> vc++ 10.0
3832 2011-02-10 23:35:59 <gavinandresen> tcatm: because I failed to compile all the needed dependencies with mingw32
3833 2011-02-10 23:36:08 <tcatm> mkay...
3834 2011-02-10 23:36:21 <tcatm> does bitcoind compile on mingw32?
3835 2011-02-10 23:36:25 <doublec> I've built bitcoind with mingw32
3836 2011-02-10 23:36:25 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I can get you a Win32 bitcoind in 5 minutes… helpful or no?
3837 2011-02-10 23:36:34 <doublec> building the dependancies was a mission however
3838 2011-02-10 23:36:37 <lfm> tcatm: and hard as it is to beleive, some people like microsoft
3839 2011-02-10 23:36:43 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: no, I need full GUI bitcoin for the 0.3.20 release
3840 2011-02-10 23:36:46 <luke-jr> sorry
3841 2011-02-10 23:37:01 <luke-jr> it's the wx, that would be a problem for me
3842 2011-02-10 23:38:40 <Hackbat> I'm tempted to just run my Bitcoin server on a Vbox of ubuntu @_@
3843 2011-02-10 23:39:34 <GoGi2> will those who join early not always have a tremendous advantage?
3844 2011-02-10 23:40:30 <doublec> gavinandresen: what's the error you're getting?
3845 2011-02-10 23:40:35 <luke-jr> GoGi2: no, just a short-term advantage :P
3846 2011-02-10 23:40:52 <luke-jr> except those who have lots of bitcoin stashed away
3847 2011-02-10 23:40:55 <GoGi2> if the number of bitcoins tends to x just get a small amount of bitcoins and wait until everyone uses them
3848 2011-02-10 23:40:58 <gavinandresen> doublec:  std::tr1::ref : ambiguous call to overloaded function
3849 2011-02-10 23:41:12 <GoGi2> because of deflation the will be worth a lot
3850 2011-02-10 23:41:31 <gavinandresen> doublec: it is line 1765 of rpc.cpp  (which is code I added in the 0.3.20 release... of course)
3851 2011-02-10 23:42:11 <doublec> gavinandresen: does it say which usage of ref?
3852 2011-02-10 23:42:22 <gavinandresen> It seems to be unhappy about all three
3853 2011-02-10 23:44:06 <doublec> gavinandresen: change usage of ref to boost::ref
3854 2011-02-10 23:44:28 <doublec> msvc has it's own version of ref
3855 2011-02-10 23:44:35 <doublec> as part of the C++0x implementation
3856 2011-02-10 23:44:38 <gavinandresen> of COURSE it does....
3857 2011-02-10 23:44:40 <doublec> and it's using that
3858 2011-02-10 23:45:30 <LobsterMan> if anyone is feeling generous, please upvote this submission :)
3859 2011-02-10 23:45:30 <LobsterMan> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/fj3jj/how_to_get_started_using_your_gpu_to_mine_for/
3860 2011-02-10 23:45:39 <luke-jr> doublec: isn't it C++1x now? :P
3861 2011-02-10 23:45:48 <doublec> hehe
3862 2011-02-10 23:46:12 <lfm> GoGi2: I agree there is a big danger of a buuble sort of dynamic
3863 2011-02-10 23:46:19 <gavinandresen> doublec: thanks, that gets me further....
3864 2011-02-10 23:46:29 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: why do you recommend 2.2?
3865 2011-02-10 23:46:50 <LobsterMan> that is what was told to me is the minimum
3866 2011-02-10 23:47:01 <luke-jr> O.o
3867 2011-02-10 23:47:02 <LobsterMan> by the people in the thread i link in the post
3868 2011-02-10 23:47:04 <GoGi2> how do you control bitcoind?
3869 2011-02-10 23:47:11 <luke-jr> 2.2 is the minimum for a broken version, on Linux
3870 2011-02-10 23:47:17 <luke-jr> on Linux, you want 2.1
3871 2011-02-10 23:47:23 <lfm> GoGi2: command line
3872 2011-02-10 23:47:25 <LobsterMan> well this is for windows
3873 2011-02-10 23:47:42 <LobsterMan> and people have said it works with 2.2
3874 2011-02-10 23:47:46 <LobsterMan> is there a more recent version for windows?
3875 2011-02-10 23:47:53 <doublec> GoGi2: 'bitcoind help' for informatoin on how to access the rpc daemon that bitcoind runs
3876 2011-02-10 23:47:57 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: works != works well
3877 2011-02-10 23:48:01 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc
3878 2011-02-10 23:48:01 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
3879 2011-02-10 23:48:05 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: on Linux, 2.2 eats 100% CPU
3880 2011-02-10 23:48:06 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 5175
3881 2011-02-10 23:48:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5175 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 35 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 33 minutes, and 40 seconds
3882 2011-02-10 23:48:09 <LobsterMan> well what do you suggest luke-jr?
3883 2011-02-10 23:48:09 <LobsterMan> <_<
3884 2011-02-10 23:48:18 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: on Linux, 2.3 eats 100% CPU *and* is much slower mining
3885 2011-02-10 23:48:25 <luke-jr> compared to 2.1, which works fine
3886 2011-02-10 23:48:29 <LobsterMan> but like i said, this is NOT a post about linux
3887 2011-02-10 23:48:32 <LobsterMan> this is for windows only
3888 2011-02-10 23:48:37 <LobsterMan> my article at least
3889 2011-02-10 23:48:45 <luke-jr> ok, I'd still test if the same maybe true for Windows
3890 2011-02-10 23:49:07 <RBecker> ::bc,calc 5846
3891 2011-02-10 23:49:10 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 5846
3892 2011-02-10 23:49:11 <LobsterMan> i don't have any ati devices though
3893 2011-02-10 23:49:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5846 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 31 weeks, 4 days, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 27 seconds
3894 2011-02-10 23:49:11 <LobsterMan> :\
3895 2011-02-10 23:49:59 <citiz3n> ;;bc,calc 2720000
3896 2011-02-10 23:49:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2720000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 11 hours, 24 minutes, and 11 seconds
3897 2011-02-10 23:50:04 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: then you're not qualified to be writing a guide -.-
3898 2011-02-10 23:50:18 <LobsterMan> lol
3899 2011-02-10 23:50:51 * luke-jr downvotes it
3900 2011-02-10 23:51:25 <LobsterMan> i still don't understand what you think is wrong with it...
3901 2011-02-10 23:51:26 <lfm> LobsterMan: go ahead, better half a guide than none, just make clear your limitations
3902 2011-02-10 23:51:33 <LobsterMan> you've said my info is bad for linux
3903 2011-02-10 23:51:39 <LobsterMan> but it is not a linux guide
3904 2011-02-10 23:51:56 <LobsterMan> and if you read the top bit of it...i state that this was written with nvidia devices........
3905 2011-02-10 23:51:58 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 2000
3906 2011-02-10 23:51:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 year, 40 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 22 seconds
3907 2011-02-10 23:52:35 * gwillen gets about 1000 khps :-(
3908 2011-02-10 23:52:48 <LobsterMan> do you still need the stream sdk to make m0mchil's miner work on windows?
3909 2011-02-10 23:52:54 <LobsterMan> for ati
3910 2011-02-10 23:53:13 <xelister> LobsterMan: fianlly bought an ati? ;)
3911 2011-02-10 23:53:17 <LobsterMan> no.......................
3912 2011-02-10 23:53:25 <xelister> well perhaps good for you, ati sucks cocks overall
3913 2011-02-10 23:53:26 <midnightmagic> i'm missing something..
3914 2011-02-10 23:53:27 <LobsterMan> people are telling me my guide is "wrong"
3915 2011-02-10 23:53:40 <LobsterMan> but will not provide any useful info other than "Wrong"
3916 2011-02-10 23:53:43 <LobsterMan> :[
3917 2011-02-10 23:53:49 <midnightmagic> isn't the formula (D*(2^32))/(3600*H) in hours?
3918 2011-02-10 23:54:06 <gwillen> LobsterMan: I wouldn't worry about it
3919 2011-02-10 23:54:10 <gwillen> LobsterMan: you have upvotes
3920 2011-02-10 23:54:17 <lfm> LobsterMan: ignore them then, they are prolly the ones wrong
3921 2011-02-10 23:54:20 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: isn't it a waste to mine on NVidia now?
3922 2011-02-10 23:54:23 <LobsterMan> well i want correct information to be disseminated
3923 2011-02-10 23:54:39 <LobsterMan> luke-jr i think that depends on what you consider a waste...
3924 2011-02-10 23:54:42 <GoGi2> does bitcoind use multiple cpus?
3925 2011-02-10 23:54:44 <doublec> don't worry about it - there are always people who'll downvote things
3926 2011-02-10 23:54:50 bk128 has joined
3927 2011-02-10 23:54:53 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: I consider a waste, when it costs more electricity than you earn in bitcoins
3928 2011-02-10 23:54:55 <midnightmagic> oh.. yeah, it is. :-) silly me, I missed the "40 weeks" part. :)
3929 2011-02-10 23:54:55 <doublec> any helpful information is good
3930 2011-02-10 23:54:56 <ArtForz> at current price/difficulty you could mine on a dead badger and it'd be profitable
3931 2011-02-10 23:54:59 <lfm> luke-jr: nope with the price of btc up there some of the better CPU are even profitable again
3932 2011-02-10 23:55:14 <luke-jr> o.o
3933 2011-02-10 23:55:15 <midnightmagic> \o/  DEAD BADGER!
3934 2011-02-10 23:55:19 <doublec> anyone selling dead badgers for btc?
3935 2011-02-10 23:55:22 <midnightmagic> I'm totally naming my next miner that.
3936 2011-02-10 23:55:22 <LobsterMan> well....i get like 56mhash per device, i have 2 devices plus my cpu @ 4mhash
3937 2011-02-10 23:55:29 <andrew12> hm
3938 2011-02-10 23:55:30 <luke-jr> lfm: difficulty is up, too, though
3939 2011-02-10 23:55:34 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 116000
3940 2011-02-10 23:55:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 116000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 week, 4 days, 3 hours, 23 minutes, and 6 seconds
3941 2011-02-10 23:55:35 <gwillen> doublec: I will give you a dead badger and two pizzas for 10k BTC
3942 2011-02-10 23:55:37 * lfm plans a dead badger farm
3943 2011-02-10 23:55:42 <LobsterMan> i still generate blocks
3944 2011-02-10 23:55:44 <andrew12> i wonder if anyone would be interested in an irssi plugin to access the rpc
3945 2011-02-10 23:55:49 <doublec> gwillen: it's a bargain but sadly I don't have that many btc
3946 2011-02-10 23:55:54 <midnightmagic> gwillen: sold, if you can get the dead badger *into* the pizza.
3947 2011-02-10 23:55:58 <gwillen> o_O
3948 2011-02-10 23:56:01 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: faster than 50 BTC worht of electricity?
3949 2011-02-10 23:56:05 <luke-jr> also, not fair -.-
3950 2011-02-10 23:56:08 <gwillen> midnightmagic: I hadn't really contemplated that
3951 2011-02-10 23:56:17 <luke-jr> I have 265 MH/s and still never got a block
3952 2011-02-10 23:56:18 <LobsterMan> i dunno, i don't pay the electricity bill here ;P
3953 2011-02-10 23:56:22 <luke-jr> lol
3954 2011-02-10 23:56:35 <LobsterMan> it keeps my room nice and warm
3955 2011-02-10 23:56:37 <LobsterMan> i know that much
3956 2011-02-10 23:56:38 <LobsterMan> lol
3957 2011-02-10 23:56:44 <lfm> LobsterMan: thats another limitation you should make clear then
3958 2011-02-10 23:56:45 <andrew12> i need a gpu
3959 2011-02-10 23:56:55 <doublec> luke-jr: join bitpenny and get paid without worrying about the variance of block finding
3960 2011-02-10 23:56:55 <LobsterMan> lfm what is?
3961 2011-02-10 23:57:04 <andrew12> i hate having to use this space heater ;)
3962 2011-02-10 23:57:04 <lfm> LobsterMan: free power
3963 2011-02-10 23:57:08 <LobsterMan> i do....at the bottom
3964 2011-02-10 23:57:10 <luke-jr> doublec: bitpenny only gets me like 75% of what I *should* get though
3965 2011-02-10 23:57:12 <Syke> 100 Mhps is probably roughly what the electricity costs are
3966 2011-02-10 23:57:20 <doublec> luke-jr: 90% isn't it?
3967 2011-02-10 23:57:26 <luke-jr> doublec: 75% for me
3968 2011-02-10 23:57:26 <LobsterMan> i wish people would read my shit before critquing it :P
3969 2011-02-10 23:57:33 <LobsterMan> critiquing*
3970 2011-02-10 23:57:57 <LobsterMan> i think i have covered most if not all of the important information...
3971 2011-02-10 23:57:58 <lfm> LobsterMan: we cant all read everything
3972 2011-02-10 23:58:14 <andrew12> hm
3973 2011-02-10 23:58:17 <andrew12> bitpenny isn't loading here
3974 2011-02-10 23:58:17 <LobsterMan> "Now all you have to do is wait :)
3975 2011-02-10 23:58:18 <luke-jr> lfm: you don't have to read *everything*, just his mind
3976 2011-02-10 23:58:18 <LobsterMan> Note that it may possibly take many days/weeks to generate coins, and you are likely to notice an increase in your power bill while you run your bitcoin miners. "
3977 2011-02-10 23:58:32 <bk128> ArtForz: slashdotted again? are you a millionaire now?
3978 2011-02-10 23:58:34 * LobsterMan sighs loudly
3979 2011-02-10 23:58:48 <lfm> luke-jr: and there lots of stuff (eg tonal numbers) I wish I never read
3980 2011-02-10 23:59:03 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: I would explicitly say you might spend more than you get, without a high-end ATi card
3981 2011-02-10 23:59:16 <luke-jr> lfm: you read the book yet?
3982 2011-02-10 23:59:21 davec has joined
3983 2011-02-10 23:59:30 <GoGi2> what is the difference between -server and -daemon?
3984 2011-02-10 23:59:31 <doublec> andrew12: the web site seems to be down.
3985 2011-02-10 23:59:35 <lfm> luke-jr: oh lord no theres a whole book?
3986 2011-02-10 23:59:35 <OneFixt> doublec: luke-jr: seems to have lower than normal returns, most people get 88%+
3987 2011-02-10 23:59:44 a has joined
3988 2011-02-10 23:59:44 <doublec> OneFixt: yeah I'm getting good returns
3989 2011-02-10 23:59:46 davec is now known as Guest77604
3990 2011-02-10 23:59:50 <Guest77604> when you open addressbook->sending and click "new address"
3991 2011-02-10 23:59:54 <luke-jr> lfm: if you haven't even read the book, how can you know enough to complain?
3992 2011-02-10 23:59:58 <bk128> is there still a calculator that tells you how long it takes for a 50% chance of generating with the current difficulty?
3993 2011-02-10 23:59:58 <Guest77604> do you type your real name and snail address?
3994 2011-02-10 23:59:59 <doublec> OneFixt: better than slush's on average so I must have been unlucky in that pool