1 2011-02-12 00:00:03 <toast> man im behind...
2 2011-02-12 00:00:07 <Mango-chan> well i have like 3x270m~
3 2011-02-12 00:00:15 <Mango-chan> getting on average 30~35 btc a day
4 2011-02-12 00:00:37 <Mango-chan> waiting till i hit 200~
5 2011-02-12 00:00:47 <Mango-chan> gonna cash out and buy more gpus
6 2011-02-12 00:00:50 <toast> what are you using to mine?
7 2011-02-12 00:00:52 <Mango-chan> rinse and repeat..
8 2011-02-12 00:00:57 <Mango-chan> hardware?
9 2011-02-12 00:01:01 <toast> softwate
10 2011-02-12 00:01:05 <Mango-chan> poclbm
11 2011-02-12 00:01:06 <toast> software
12 2011-02-12 00:01:22 <toast> set it and forget it?
13 2011-02-12 00:02:25 <toast> ohh
14 2011-02-12 00:02:30 <Mango-chan> yeah
15 2011-02-12 00:02:38 Cusipzzz has joined
16 2011-02-12 00:04:09 <toast> haha, maybe my old 6800's in sli will finally stop making dust
17 2011-02-12 00:04:24 <toast> u using ubuntu windows or something else?
18 2011-02-12 00:05:36 <Diablo-D3> [06:52:36] <Mango-chan> i only get like 270m on my 6950
19 2011-02-12 00:05:41 <Diablo-D3> that sounds... eh
20 2011-02-12 00:05:43 <Diablo-D3> about normalish
21 2011-02-12 00:06:02 <Mango-chan> it costs more than a 5870!
22 2011-02-12 00:06:09 <Diablo-D3> depends where you are
23 2011-02-12 00:06:19 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, 69xx prices are vastly inflated
24 2011-02-12 00:06:28 <Diablo-D3> 6950 is faster in 3D than 5870
25 2011-02-12 00:06:42 <Mango-chan> well i bought it for gaming
26 2011-02-12 00:06:44 <Mango-chan> so i guess ican't complain
27 2011-02-12 00:06:49 <Mango-chan> but once i hit payout threshold
28 2011-02-12 00:06:51 <Diablo-D3> 6970 is like 25-50% faster in 3D depending on the game
29 2011-02-12 00:06:54 <Mango-chan> i'm going to stack up on 5870s -3-
30 2011-02-12 00:07:00 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: but yeah
31 2011-02-12 00:07:06 <Diablo-D3> the problem with 69xx is you're stuck with SDK 2.3
32 2011-02-12 00:07:22 <Mango-chan> what's wrong with sdk 2.3?
33 2011-02-12 00:07:27 <Diablo-D3> its not as fast as 2.1
34 2011-02-12 00:07:39 <Diablo-D3> but 2.1 doesnt support 69xx because its a different arch
35 2011-02-12 00:07:43 <Mango-chan> does 68xx work with 68xx?
36 2011-02-12 00:07:51 <Mango-chan> i mean
37 2011-02-12 00:07:52 <Mango-chan> sdk 2.3
38 2011-02-12 00:07:57 <Mango-chan> derp
39 2011-02-12 00:07:57 <Mango-chan> 2.1
40 2011-02-12 00:07:58 <Mango-chan> SORRY
41 2011-02-12 00:07:59 <Mango-chan> EXCUSE ME
42 2011-02-12 00:08:02 <Diablo-D3> yes
43 2011-02-12 00:08:07 <Mango-chan> so
44 2011-02-12 00:08:09 <Mango-chan> would it be faster?
45 2011-02-12 00:08:09 <Diablo-D3> 68xx is really an optimized 5xxx
46 2011-02-12 00:08:12 <Mango-chan> if i used 2.1
47 2011-02-12 00:08:13 <Diablo-D3> no, it wouldnt
48 2011-02-12 00:08:17 <Mango-chan> why not?
49 2011-02-12 00:08:24 <Diablo-D3> 68xx isnt a replacement for 58xx
50 2011-02-12 00:08:37 <Diablo-D3> 3D wise, its the same speed, but its cheaper, uses less watts, and the die is smaller
51 2011-02-12 00:08:47 <Diablo-D3> 68xx is an upgrade for 57xx users
52 2011-02-12 00:09:03 <Mango-chan> so, say
53 2011-02-12 00:09:07 <Mango-chan> if they released a 2.4 sdk
54 2011-02-12 00:09:17 <Mango-chan> is it possible that 69xx would get faster
55 2011-02-12 00:09:24 <Mango-chan> in terms of opencl computations
56 2011-02-12 00:09:25 <Diablo-D3> if 2.4 fixed the bug in question, then everyone would switch to 2.4
57 2011-02-12 00:09:50 <Mango-chan> are there any news
58 2011-02-12 00:09:57 <Mango-chan> of 2.4? and how much of an increase are we talking about?
59 2011-02-12 00:10:39 <Diablo-D3> no news of 2.4.
60 2011-02-12 00:10:54 <Diablo-D3> the bug in 2.2 and 2.3 is that they consume all your cpu time in mining....
61 2011-02-12 00:11:09 <Diablo-D3> but if you "fix" that using an undocumented environment variable, it uses no cpu time, but mining is far slower
62 2011-02-12 00:11:27 <Diablo-D3> 2.3 has a superior compiler over 2.1, but the bug is in the opencl libraries
63 2011-02-12 00:12:09 <lumos> I HAVE SEX WITH MINERS
64 2011-02-12 00:12:22 <Mango-chan> no wonder my cpu is also under load
65 2011-02-12 00:12:23 <Mango-chan> -3-
66 2011-02-12 00:12:28 <RBecker> I see what you did there lumos
67 2011-02-12 00:12:40 <lumos> C;
68 2011-02-12 00:12:43 <cosurgi> ;;seen ArtForz
69 2011-02-12 00:12:43 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 hours, 9 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <ArtForz> err... the numbers are right there in the wiki page
70 2011-02-12 00:13:01 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: but yeah, 2.4 could fix it, but who knows
71 2011-02-12 00:13:30 <Mango-chan> do the devs know about this bug?
72 2011-02-12 00:14:12 <Diablo-D3> yes, they are aware of it
73 2011-02-12 00:16:17 <cosurgi> fuck. On one of the miners the `aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'set fanspeed 0 100'` command isn't working.
74 2011-02-12 00:16:36 <cosurgi> aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0'
75 2011-02-12 00:16:37 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: sure you have your DISPLAY set right?
76 2011-02-12 00:16:41 <cosurgi> Result: Fan Speed: 50%
77 2011-02-12 00:16:46 <Diablo-D3> and get fanspeed doesnt work
78 2011-02-12 00:17:04 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: if there's not DISPLAY set, it simply doesn't run.
79 2011-02-12 00:17:09 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
80 2011-02-12 00:17:16 <Mango-chan> what's the difference between mining on windows and mining on *nix
81 2011-02-12 00:17:23 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'set fanspeed 0 100'
82 2011-02-12 00:17:24 <cosurgi> PPLIB command execution is Successful!
83 2011-02-12 00:17:24 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0'
84 2011-02-12 00:17:24 <cosurgi> Fan speed query:
85 2011-02-12 00:17:24 <cosurgi> Query Index: 0, Speed in percent
86 2011-02-12 00:17:26 <cosurgi> Result: Fan Speed: 50%
87 2011-02-12 00:17:29 <lfm> Mango-chan: not much really
88 2011-02-12 00:17:33 <lumos> NIX IS BETTR
89 2011-02-12 00:17:43 <Mango-chan> lumos why
90 2011-02-12 00:17:47 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ echo $DISPLAY
91 2011-02-12 00:17:47 <cosurgi> :0
92 2011-02-12 00:17:57 <lumos> Mango-chan, 100% control
93 2011-02-12 00:18:03 <Mango-chan> but you're just mining
94 2011-02-12 00:18:05 <Mango-chan> you have no control
95 2011-02-12 00:18:06 <lumos> NO BACKDOOR
96 2011-02-12 00:18:06 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: its easier to control your environment on linux
97 2011-02-12 00:18:15 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dont you have multiple cards?
98 2011-02-12 00:18:24 <Mango-chan> lumos don't be dumb and you won't get backdoors
99 2011-02-12 00:18:33 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
100 2011-02-12 00:18:34 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: three 5870 in this box.
101 2011-02-12 00:18:37 <lumos> Mango-chan, why should i have to make sure i dont
102 2011-02-12 00:18:41 <lumos> Mango-chan, not my job
103 2011-02-12 00:18:51 <Mango-chan> no
104 2011-02-12 00:18:53 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you have to fuck with the DISPLAY variable to alter speed on all cards
105 2011-02-12 00:18:57 <lumos> Mango-chan, i wunna go on shitty websites with no certificates and execute random exe's
106 2011-02-12 00:18:58 <Mango-chan> do you make sure that you don't act dumb
107 2011-02-12 00:18:59 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: ask Art about it
108 2011-02-12 00:18:59 <lfm> Mango-chan: some think Bill Gates built in backdoors
109 2011-02-12 00:19:11 <cosurgi> omg. thanks, will check
110 2011-02-12 00:19:14 <Mango-chan> lumos noscript/adblock
111 2011-02-12 00:19:19 <Diablo-D3> the only thing Bill Gates backdoored in the past 30 years is your mom.
112 2011-02-12 00:19:27 <lumos> lumos, why should i have to do that
113 2011-02-12 00:19:52 <Mango-chan> so that you won't get said backdoors
114 2011-02-12 00:19:54 <cjdelisle> howdy folks
115 2011-02-12 00:19:55 <Mango-chan> why are you going around in circles
116 2011-02-12 00:20:06 <cjdelisle> !g _NSAKEY
117 2011-02-12 00:20:06 <lumos> Mango-chan, i'm saying
118 2011-02-12 00:20:07 * cosurgi gos to fuck DISPLAY ar4
119 2011-02-12 00:20:21 * cosurgi goes to fuck DISPLAY var
120 2011-02-12 00:20:25 <lumos> i don't want to have to do extra shit so that i don't get backdoors, windows should be built not to be crappy
121 2011-02-12 00:20:38 <Mango-chan> it isn't crappy
122 2011-02-12 00:20:45 <Mango-chan> that's why they use it @ the LHC control center
123 2011-02-12 00:20:52 <lfm> Mango-chan: its all a matter of opinion
124 2011-02-12 00:20:56 <lumos> Mango-chan, no they use scibuntu
125 2011-02-12 00:21:03 <Mango-chan> no lumos they don't
126 2011-02-12 00:21:04 <cjdelisle> "they use it @ the LHC control center" ;p;
127 2011-02-12 00:21:06 <cjdelisle> lol
128 2011-02-12 00:21:32 <Mango-chan> lumos are you a virgin by any chance...
129 2011-02-12 00:21:33 <lumos> http://linux.web.cern.ch/linux/scientific4/
130 2011-02-12 00:21:38 <lumos> Mango-chan, yes
131 2011-02-12 00:21:42 <cjdelisle> didn't they overheat some coils or something not too long ago?
132 2011-02-12 00:21:54 <Mango-chan> it's most likely you prefer linux over windows
133 2011-02-12 00:21:54 <lfm> lumos are you 12?
134 2011-02-12 00:22:06 <lumos> Mango-chan, they also used windows at the natanz plant, and got BACKDOORS
135 2011-02-12 00:22:12 <lumos> *bug
136 2011-02-12 00:22:15 <lumos> stuxnet
137 2011-02-12 00:22:17 <Mango-chan> they're just stupid
138 2011-02-12 00:22:28 <lumos> Mango-chan, an os should be built for stupid people
139 2011-02-12 00:22:43 <lumos> lfm, yes
140 2011-02-12 00:22:45 <cjdelisle> by stupid people for stupid people...
141 2011-02-12 00:22:47 <lfm> linux is not built for stupid people!
142 2011-02-12 00:23:11 <Mango-chan> but linux is easier to compromise...
143 2011-02-12 00:23:18 <lfm> Mango-chan: no
144 2011-02-12 00:23:20 <cjdelisle> lol
145 2011-02-12 00:23:21 <lumos> Mango-chan, wtf
146 2011-02-12 00:23:22 <Mango-chan> yes lfm
147 2011-02-12 00:23:31 <lumos> LINUX GT NO ANTIVIRUS
148 2011-02-12 00:23:33 <lumos> softwert
149 2011-02-12 00:23:38 <Mango-chan> not everything is about
150 2011-02-12 00:23:39 <Mango-chan> virii
151 2011-02-12 00:23:39 <lfm> Mango-chan: how you figgure that?
152 2011-02-12 00:23:41 <Mango-chan> and software
153 2011-02-12 00:23:45 <lumos> http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/09/large-hadron-collider---powere.html
154 2011-02-12 00:23:47 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I got something:
155 2011-02-12 00:23:54 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ export DISPLAY=:0.0
156 2011-02-12 00:23:58 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0'
157 2011-02-12 00:24:01 <cosurgi> Result: Fan Speed: 53%
158 2011-02-12 00:24:03 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ export DISPLAY=:0.1
159 2011-02-12 00:24:08 <cosurgi> bitcoin@min3:~$ aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0'
160 2011-02-12 00:24:10 <lumos> lfm, distro like ubuntu is for stupid people
161 2011-02-12 00:24:10 <cosurgi> Result: Fan Speed: 31%
162 2011-02-12 00:24:11 <cjdelisle> damn, more trolls here than efnet.
163 2011-02-12 00:24:12 <Mango-chan> lfm because i know people who root tonnes of linux servers...
164 2011-02-12 00:24:24 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: yup, two different fans.
165 2011-02-12 00:24:26 <lfm> Mango-chan: normal windows people all run in admin mode, normal linux in user mode
166 2011-02-12 00:24:39 <Mango-chan> the exploits they use don't occur with windows
167 2011-02-12 00:25:15 <lfm> Mango-chan: and windows servers are all bulletproof, ya ok you got your point of veiw and the sane world has theirs
168 2011-02-12 00:25:21 <Mango-chan> no
169 2011-02-12 00:25:31 <cjdelisle> hehe
170 2011-02-12 00:25:31 <lumos> Mango-chan, are you bil g8s
171 2011-02-12 00:25:31 <Mango-chan> i'm just saying linux isn't as godly as you make it sound
172 2011-02-12 00:25:41 <lumos> Mango-chan, i dont see how not
173 2011-02-12 00:25:53 <Mango-chan> learning curve
174 2011-02-12 00:26:00 <Mango-chan> UI
175 2011-02-12 00:26:02 <lumos> proof
176 2011-02-12 00:26:11 <Mango-chan> alan kay
177 2011-02-12 00:26:30 <lumos> cold fridge
178 2011-02-12 00:26:31 <lfm> I dont think we will settle this particular religious war here today, can we drop it?
179 2011-02-12 00:26:32 <lumos> keys
180 2011-02-12 00:26:39 <lumos> entropy
181 2011-02-12 00:26:46 <Diablo-D3> btw, the only problem with windows is... you cant turn crossfire off.
182 2011-02-12 00:26:48 <Mango-chan> lfm sounds good
183 2011-02-12 00:26:52 <cjdelisle> linux sucks because it's impossible to use, windows sucks because the bsod comes up so often you'd think it was the screensaver
184 2011-02-12 00:26:53 <Mango-chan> Diablo-D3 you can
185 2011-02-12 00:27:02 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: not from what Ive seen
186 2011-02-12 00:27:03 <Mango-chan> just uncheck enable corssfirex?
187 2011-02-12 00:27:10 <Diablo-D3> doesnt seem to work
188 2011-02-12 00:27:17 <Mango-chan> cjdelisle windows 7 etc
189 2011-02-12 00:27:21 <Diablo-D3> all it does is force opencl and 3D apps to the first gpu only
190 2011-02-12 00:27:22 <Mango-chan> Diablo-D3 why do you need cf off
191 2011-02-12 00:27:34 <Mango-chan> i'm running 2 miners on each gpu
192 2011-02-12 00:27:36 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: cant use opencl apps on multiple gpus, all gpus after #1 produce shit results
193 2011-02-12 00:27:37 <Mango-chan> w/ cf on
194 2011-02-12 00:27:43 <Mango-chan> no
195 2011-02-12 00:27:43 <lfm> Mango-chan: for opencl to run exclusive
196 2011-02-12 00:27:45 <Mango-chan> both get 270m
197 2011-02-12 00:27:53 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: sure, but all the results are worthless.
198 2011-02-12 00:28:01 <Mango-chan> huh?
199 2011-02-12 00:28:14 <Mango-chan> explain please
200 2011-02-12 00:28:16 <Diablo-D3> its not actually running valid calculations
201 2011-02-12 00:28:23 <bk128> ;;bc,calc 1400
202 2011-02-12 00:28:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1400 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 2 years, 27 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 46 minutes, and 14 seconds
203 2011-02-12 00:28:30 <bk128> :(
204 2011-02-12 00:28:38 <lfm> Mango-chan: we dont want the gpu to be wasted updating screen
205 2011-02-12 00:28:45 <cjdelisle> and 14 seconds
206 2011-02-12 00:28:46 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: its a known bug in the drivers
207 2011-02-12 00:29:00 <Mango-chan> how do you check it
208 2011-02-12 00:29:10 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: so, on linux, we initialize multiple instances of the driver
209 2011-02-12 00:29:20 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: well, my miner automatically checks it when the GPU returns a valid case.
210 2011-02-12 00:29:45 <Mango-chan> does it work on windows
211 2011-02-12 00:29:46 <Diablo-D3> it'll say hardware error if its bullshit
212 2011-02-12 00:29:51 <Diablo-D3> yes, my miner works on windows
213 2011-02-12 00:30:00 <Mango-chan> support server functions?
214 2011-02-12 00:30:09 <Mango-chan> -s -p
215 2011-02-12 00:30:09 <Mango-chan> etc
216 2011-02-12 00:30:18 <Diablo-D3> yes, you can pool with it
217 2011-02-12 00:30:41 <Diablo-D3> most pool users are using mine because mine blunts the impact of pool communications better
218 2011-02-12 00:31:47 <bk128> Diablo-D3: what's the best OS to use with your miner? and does it matter if it's 32 or 64 bit?
219 2011-02-12 00:32:15 <Mango-chan> Please note: Catalyst 11.1 is not running miners properly. 10.12 may or may not have problems for some users.
220 2011-02-12 00:32:23 <Mango-chan> derp
221 2011-02-12 00:32:40 <Diablo-D3> bk128: its written in java, so it works on nearly everything
222 2011-02-12 00:32:47 <Diablo-D3> the best OS to mine in with any miner is java though
223 2011-02-12 00:32:55 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: cat 11.1 fucks up my and m0's miner
224 2011-02-12 00:33:02 <Diablo-D3> but no one has tried it with sdk 2.3
225 2011-02-12 00:33:04 <Diablo-D3> so who knows
226 2011-02-12 00:33:46 <andrew12> 57.553 Ghash/s on slush's pool!
227 2011-02-12 00:34:32 <Mango-chan> 64ghash
228 2011-02-12 00:34:33 <Mango-chan> wtf
229 2011-02-12 00:34:34 <Mango-chan> is going on
230 2011-02-12 00:34:35 <Mango-chan> lol
231 2011-02-12 00:35:22 citiz3n is now known as citiz3n_gym
232 2011-02-12 00:35:42 <Mango-chan> Approx. cluster performance: 67.832 Ghash/s
233 2011-02-12 00:36:16 <lfm> ;;bc,poolstats
234 2011-02-12 00:36:17 <gribble> {"active_workers": 610, "ghashes_ps": "68.366", "getwork_ps": 256}
235 2011-02-12 00:36:36 <Mango-chan> ??
236 2011-02-12 00:36:38 <Mango-chan> why did it double
237 2011-02-12 00:36:39 <Mango-chan> out of the blue
238 2011-02-12 00:36:55 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
239 2011-02-12 00:37:00 <Mango-chan> Approx. cluster performance: 88.834 Ghash/s
240 2011-02-12 00:37:01 <Mango-chan> wtf
241 2011-02-12 00:37:11 <Mango-chan> did someone bring in a gpufarm
242 2011-02-12 00:38:41 <lfm> maybe random fluxuation at start of new block or something
243 2011-02-12 00:38:57 <lfm> ;;bc,poolstats
244 2011-02-12 00:38:58 <gribble> {"active_workers": 612, "ghashes_ps": "77.774", "getwork_ps": 255}
245 2011-02-12 00:39:38 toast has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
246 2011-02-12 00:40:09 <lfm> 2 users -> 9 ghash/s does seem odd
247 2011-02-12 00:41:36 <lfm> ;;bc,poolstats
248 2011-02-12 00:41:37 <gribble> {"active_workers": 603, "ghashes_ps": "49.612", "getwork_ps": 251}
249 2011-02-12 00:41:40 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
250 2011-02-12 00:41:57 <lfm> random
251 2011-02-12 00:42:08 MrCoin has joined
252 2011-02-12 00:42:53 <cosurgi> same problem was yesterday at 17:50 UTC
253 2011-02-12 00:43:01 <Mango-chan> what happened
254 2011-02-12 00:43:10 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,poolstats
255 2011-02-12 00:43:11 <gribble> {"active_workers": 608, "ghashes_ps": "49.549", "getwork_ps": 254}
256 2011-02-12 00:43:13 <cosurgi> we were trying to investigate this with slush, but couldn't find the cause.
257 2011-02-12 00:43:50 <cosurgi> the server connection logs looked not just normal, they looked very normal at 17:50 +/- 5minutes.
258 2011-02-12 00:43:55 <andrew12> hehe, i should make something to graph the ;;poolstats
259 2011-02-12 00:44:15 <andrew12> also why is ghashes_ps a string?
260 2011-02-12 00:44:19 <cosurgi> there was a slight spike in CPU usage.
261 2011-02-12 00:44:56 <cosurgi> in the end we thought, that this was maybe a random effect, that lots of miners suddenly found their shares - exactly at the same time.
262 2011-02-12 00:45:05 <lfm> andrew12: prolly just use quotes cuz of period in value
263 2011-02-12 00:45:36 <cosurgi> .. means: within a 5 minutes time window. That's the window for which pool speed is estimated.
264 2011-02-12 00:45:47 <andrew12> wasn't it just hashes/s a bit ago?
265 2011-02-12 00:46:04 Shfork has joined
266 2011-02-12 00:46:18 <lfm> andrew12: poolstats is always ghash/s I think
267 2011-02-12 00:46:45 <andrew12> that wouldn't make sense since it used to have less than 1G :p
268 2011-02-12 00:46:57 <lfm> o.55
269 2011-02-12 00:47:00 <andrew12> ;;bc,poolstats
270 2011-02-12 00:47:01 <gribble> {"active_workers": 604, "ghashes_ps": "49.386", "getwork_ps": 257}
271 2011-02-12 00:47:02 <lfm> 0.55
272 2011-02-12 00:47:08 <andrew12> 0.55?
273 2011-02-12 00:47:15 <lfm> less than 1
274 2011-02-12 00:47:21 <andrew12> oh.
275 2011-02-12 00:48:01 <lfm> seems to have stablized now
276 2011-02-12 00:48:13 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,poolstats
277 2011-02-12 00:48:18 <gribble> {"active_workers": 605, "ghashes_ps": "49.451", "getwork_ps": 252}
278 2011-02-12 00:48:27 <andrew12> hm
279 2011-02-12 00:48:41 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
280 2011-02-12 00:48:41 <andrew12> moving averages are just an average of the last x values right?
281 2011-02-12 00:48:46 <lfm> maybe random fluxuation at start of new block or something
282 2011-02-12 00:49:04 <andrew12> could be
283 2011-02-12 00:50:38 sabalaba has joined
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291 2011-02-12 01:03:31 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
292 2011-02-12 01:10:25 <Mango-chan> # Block found Duration Total shares Your reward Block # Validity
293 2011-02-12 01:10:25 <Mango-chan> 958 2011-02-11 22:43:33 5:01:55 201402 0.75810566 107530 103 confirmations left
294 2011-02-12 01:10:28 <Mango-chan> wow
295 2011-02-12 01:10:30 <Mango-chan> 4 hours
296 2011-02-12 01:10:32 <Mango-chan> 5*
297 2011-02-12 01:10:44 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
298 2011-02-12 01:10:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107547 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1316 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32945.20584512
299 2011-02-12 01:10:53 Ralith has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
300 2011-02-12 01:12:56 frewsxcv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
301 2011-02-12 01:13:18 frewsxcv has joined
302 2011-02-12 01:13:20 <RBecker> ;;bt,calc 6287
303 2011-02-12 01:13:20 <gribble> Error: "bt,calc" is not a valid command.
304 2011-02-12 01:13:28 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6287
305 2011-02-12 01:13:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6287 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 29 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 27 minutes, and 45 seconds
306 2011-02-12 01:13:32 <RBecker> hm
307 2011-02-12 01:13:37 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6349
308 2011-02-12 01:13:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6349 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 29 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds
309 2011-02-12 01:14:10 <RBecker> Can you have more than one client on the same recieving address?
310 2011-02-12 01:14:48 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc 1
311 2011-02-12 01:14:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3540 years, 37 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 54 minutes, and 20 seconds
312 2011-02-12 01:14:52 <Mango-chan> lol
313 2011-02-12 01:14:57 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 0
314 2011-02-12 01:14:58 <gribble> Error: float division
315 2011-02-12 01:15:01 <RBecker> heh
316 2011-02-12 01:15:04 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
317 2011-02-12 01:15:04 <gribble> Error: float division
318 2011-02-12 01:15:07 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
319 2011-02-12 01:15:08 <gribble> Error: float division
320 2011-02-12 01:15:14 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .1
321 2011-02-12 01:15:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .1 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 35407 years, 8 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 20 seconds
322 2011-02-12 01:15:20 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .01
323 2011-02-12 01:15:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .01 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 354071 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 20 seconds
324 2011-02-12 01:15:23 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .0000001
325 2011-02-12 01:15:23 <gribble> Error: float division
326 2011-02-12 01:15:25 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .00001
327 2011-02-12 01:15:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .00001 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 354071677 years, 0 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 23 minutes, and 0 seconds
328 2011-02-12 01:15:29 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .000001
329 2011-02-12 01:15:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .000001 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3540716770 years, 2 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes, and 8 seconds
330 2011-02-12 01:15:34 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .0000001
331 2011-02-12 01:15:35 <gribble> Error: float division
332 2011-02-12 01:15:37 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .000001
333 2011-02-12 01:15:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .000001 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3540716770 years, 2 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes, and 8 seconds
334 2011-02-12 01:15:41 <Mango-chan> :(
335 2011-02-12 01:15:58 <cosurgi> Mango-chan: talk with him in private :), use /msg
336 2011-02-12 01:17:20 <cjdelisle> hehehe bc,calc 2.2250738585072012e-308
337 2011-02-12 01:18:05 <ntosme2> Error: ZOMG a really long time
338 2011-02-12 01:18:37 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
339 2011-02-12 01:18:42 <cjdelisle> more like infiniloop if written in java and using the double type.
340 2011-02-12 01:19:07 <cjdelisle> Double.parseDouble("2.2250738585072012e-308"); <-- makes java hang
341 2011-02-12 01:19:11 <RBecker> Anyone know a good windows GPU miner?
342 2011-02-12 01:19:18 <Mango-chan> python miner
343 2011-02-12 01:20:05 <RBecker> someone said I should be able to modify the script so that it only generates when my computer has been idle... do you know how to do that?
344 2011-02-12 01:21:46 <nevezen> read the boards more?
345 2011-02-12 01:23:24 <ntosme2> Mango-chan: thanks for the tip, found poclbm
346 2011-02-12 01:23:35 <Mango-chan> np
347 2011-02-12 01:30:27 <xelister> is it ok to mine on torred node, or is the slowdown too big?
348 2011-02-12 01:31:11 skeledrew1 has joined
349 2011-02-12 01:31:43 MrCoin has joined
350 2011-02-12 01:32:24 <lfm> RBecker: they all do that
351 2011-02-12 01:32:37 <RBecker> they all support it?
352 2011-02-12 01:33:11 caution has quit (Quit: caution)
353 2011-02-12 01:33:14 <nevezen> does m0mchil have a changelog between the last and latest version?
354 2011-02-12 01:34:10 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
355 2011-02-12 01:38:24 altamic has joined
356 2011-02-12 01:38:25 altamic has quit (Changing host)
357 2011-02-12 01:38:25 altamic has joined
358 2011-02-12 01:44:14 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
359 2011-02-12 01:44:15 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
360 2011-02-12 01:50:46 <ntosme2> ~6200 khash/s ... 2000 times faster than my Core2Duo 3GHz
361 2011-02-12 01:55:25 <Hackbat> ;;bc,calc 865
362 2011-02-12 01:55:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 865 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 years, 4 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 25 minutes, and 56 seconds
363 2011-02-12 01:55:37 <Hackbat> D:
364 2011-02-12 01:55:44 <Hackbat> I NEED MORE POWER
365 2011-02-12 01:56:14 <Hackbat> I need my gaming rig back
366 2011-02-12 01:57:29 altamic has joined
367 2011-02-12 01:57:29 altamic has quit (Changing host)
368 2011-02-12 01:57:29 altamic has joined
369 2011-02-12 01:57:39 <RBecker> hey guys, can anyone help with this error? http://pastebin.com/k2LVsaNB
370 2011-02-12 01:59:34 <RBecker> looks like I'm missing a file?
371 2011-02-12 01:59:50 <cjdelisle> If block generation takes an avarage of 10 minutes for the entire world and we assume that every day the project becomes more popular, won't there be an ever increasing per transaction flat tax?
372 2011-02-12 02:00:29 <RBecker> the file is there though
373 2011-02-12 02:03:50 <ntosme2> so at a rate of ~1 block/year...is there any point in attempting to generate blocks?
374 2011-02-12 02:05:39 <cjdelisle> how much is a block worth?
375 2011-02-12 02:05:44 <RBecker> 50 bitcoins
376 2011-02-12 02:05:55 <cjdelisle> so like 50 cents?
377 2011-02-12 02:06:03 <cjdelisle> (I'm totally new)
378 2011-02-12 02:06:06 <RBecker> depends on the price of the bitcoin when you decide to trade
379 2011-02-12 02:06:18 <RBecker> they're around a dollar right now so about 50 bucks a block
380 2011-02-12 02:06:23 <RBecker> it changes though
381 2011-02-12 02:06:33 <RBecker> http://mtgox.com/
382 2011-02-12 02:06:49 davex__ has joined
383 2011-02-12 02:06:50 <RBecker> that's the most popular site but there are others
384 2011-02-12 02:06:50 <cjdelisle> I suppose it would be kind of a lottery then.
385 2011-02-12 02:07:02 Lachesis has joined
386 2011-02-12 02:07:06 <rapacity> is there any command on linux to check the temperature of an onboard ati graphics card?
387 2011-02-12 02:07:17 <RBecker> rapacity, lmsensors?
388 2011-02-12 02:07:35 <rapacity> I'll look that up, thanks
389 2011-02-12 02:07:41 <RBecker> no problem
390 2011-02-12 02:08:07 <ForceMajeure> export DISPLAY=:0
391 2011-02-12 02:08:07 <ForceMajeure> aticonfig --adapter=0 --od-gettemperature
392 2011-02-12 02:08:07 <ForceMajeure> aticonfig --adapter=1 --od-gettemperature
393 2011-02-12 02:08:10 <cjdelisle> hmm it seems like more users --> more spending --> more transactions --> same # of blocks --> congestion collapse.
394 2011-02-12 02:08:39 <rapacity> thanks as well :p
395 2011-02-12 02:09:17 <davex__> Can bitcoind report how many hashes per second all GPU miners connected to it are doing?
396 2011-02-12 02:09:24 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
397 2011-02-12 02:10:01 <cjdelisle> should be able to guess using difficulty * number of new blocks per minute.
398 2011-02-12 02:10:31 <Lachesis> cjdelisle, that won't indicate GPU miners vs CPU miners
399 2011-02-12 02:10:44 <cjdelisle> derp misread
400 2011-02-12 02:10:45 <davex__> so gethashespersecond is reporting CPU hashes only, right?
401 2011-02-12 02:10:52 <RBecker> I'm getting RPC communication error, but I started bitcoin with bitcoin.exe -server
402 2011-02-12 02:10:55 <RBecker> any ideas?
403 2011-02-12 02:11:25 <Lachesis> davex__, i think it reports your total hps
404 2011-02-12 02:11:29 <Lachesis> not all miners
405 2011-02-12 02:11:30 <Lachesis> oh wait
406 2011-02-12 02:11:35 <Lachesis> perhaps i misunderstand
407 2011-02-12 02:13:08 <davex__> mine's reporting 0 even though I've got DiabloMiner running, claiming it's doing 600MH
408 2011-02-12 02:13:42 <RBecker> hm, bad idea, setting the miner to high priority
409 2011-02-12 02:13:47 <RBecker> got a nice khash/sec rate though
410 2011-02-12 02:13:53 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
411 2011-02-12 02:13:54 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6753
412 2011-02-12 02:13:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6753 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 27 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 1 minute, and 19 seconds
413 2011-02-12 02:14:26 altamic has joined
414 2011-02-12 02:15:00 <cjdelisle> heh the NSA could probably stop this project in a heartbeat, just point their warehouses of sha256 hardware circuits at it and the difficulty would go through the roof overnight.
415 2011-02-12 02:15:15 <newsham> how does that stop it?
416 2011-02-12 02:15:28 <newsham> perhaps you misunderstand the goal
417 2011-02-12 02:15:29 EvanR_ is now known as EvanR
418 2011-02-12 02:15:32 <newsham> the goal isnt to make 50btc minig
419 2011-02-12 02:15:34 <newsham> mining
420 2011-02-12 02:15:34 EvanR has quit (Changing host)
421 2011-02-12 02:15:34 EvanR has joined
422 2011-02-12 02:15:47 <cjdelisle> hmm you're right, as soon as they stopped the difficulty would come back down wouldn't it.
423 2011-02-12 02:15:55 <afed> five hours
424 2011-02-12 02:16:00 <EvanR> NSA isnt already mining?
425 2011-02-12 02:16:19 <cjdelisle> If they were, I think you would know.
426 2011-02-12 02:16:29 <afed> that would be a misappropriation of NSA resources
427 2011-02-12 02:17:13 <cjdelisle> You can run millions of hardware sha circuits on a single chip and they no doubt have thousands of such chips.
428 2011-02-12 02:18:06 <cjdelisle> hmm... "thousands of hardware sha circuits on a single chip and they no doubt have millions" <-- that looks more accurtite.
429 2011-02-12 02:18:29 <cjdelisle> <-- security bastard ;)
430 2011-02-12 02:19:11 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 5995
431 2011-02-12 02:19:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5995 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 30 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 45 minutes, and 28 seconds
432 2011-02-12 02:19:15 <RBecker> eesh
433 2011-02-12 02:19:42 <davex__> what card?
434 2011-02-12 02:20:38 <afed> that is probably a computer
435 2011-02-12 02:21:31 <Mango-chan> no shit
436 2011-02-12 02:22:06 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
437 2011-02-12 02:23:13 dwdollar1 has joined
438 2011-02-12 02:23:58 theymos has joined
439 2011-02-12 02:27:08 <RBecker> ;;bt,calc 644
440 2011-02-12 02:27:08 <gribble> Error: "bt,calc" is not a valid command.
441 2011-02-12 02:27:16 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 944
442 2011-02-12 02:27:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 944 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 years, 39 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 39 minutes, and 4 seconds
443 2011-02-12 02:27:34 <RBecker> that's what happens when you set epu to power saving mode on an amd system folks ^
444 2011-02-12 02:27:53 <afed> i think i'd use that with the pool and not by itself
445 2011-02-12 02:28:02 jdankanyin has joined
446 2011-02-12 02:28:05 <RBecker> uh, yeah
447 2011-02-12 02:28:13 <RBecker> I was just playing with it anyways
448 2011-02-12 02:28:47 <jdankanyin> hey all can someone help me out when i start my diablominer i get this for an error Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
449 2011-02-12 02:29:30 <RBecker> I get that with the python miner
450 2011-02-12 02:29:49 <jdankanyin> i have port 8333 open
451 2011-02-12 02:29:58 <davex__> setup a config file and run bitcoind
452 2011-02-12 02:30:48 <RBecker> I put my config file in C:\Users\Ryan\AppData\Roaming\bitcoin\bitcoin.conf
453 2011-02-12 02:30:49 <jdankanyin> i got a config file but i didnt run bitcoidd
454 2011-02-12 02:30:54 <RBecker> with rpcuser= and rpcpass=
455 2011-02-12 02:31:02 <RBecker> but I still get the error
456 2011-02-12 02:31:04 <jdankanyin> yep me too
457 2011-02-12 02:31:06 <davex__> think it's rpcpassword
458 2011-02-12 02:31:09 <RBecker> hm
459 2011-02-12 02:31:15 <RBecker> lets see
460 2011-02-12 02:31:25 <theymos> It is rpcpassword.
461 2011-02-12 02:31:34 <jdankanyin> i will try that
462 2011-02-12 02:31:35 <RBecker> oh, I have rpcpassword
463 2011-02-12 02:31:41 <RBecker> rpcuser=Ryan
464 2011-02-12 02:31:45 <RBecker> and rpcpassword=hidden
465 2011-02-12 02:31:50 <RBecker> it's not actually "hidden" but yeah
466 2011-02-12 02:32:05 <davex__> point at localhost, not at your ip address.
467 2011-02-12 02:32:16 <RBecker> C:\Users\Ryan\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\bitcoin.conf is the right location for it, right?
468 2011-02-12 02:32:36 <davex__> dk, not a windows user.
469 2011-02-12 02:32:49 <jdankanyin> mine is all set to that already
470 2011-02-12 02:33:35 <jdankanyin> i got it in both directories in roaming and in c:/bitcoin directory
471 2011-02-12 02:33:48 <[Noodles]> Roaming is fine
472 2011-02-12 02:34:20 <RBecker> aha, I got it
473 2011-02-12 02:34:25 <jdankanyin> davex how do you point to localhost
474 2011-02-12 02:34:32 <RBecker> -o=localhost
475 2011-02-12 02:34:52 <[Noodles]> or just use no -o= at all
476 2011-02-12 02:34:54 <RBecker> This worked for me... poclbm.exe --user=Ryan --pass=Hidden --host=localhost --device=0
477 2011-02-12 02:34:56 <RBecker> that got it working
478 2011-02-12 02:35:11 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48433
479 2011-02-12 02:35:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48433 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes, and 13 seconds
480 2011-02-12 02:35:15 <RBecker> nice!
481 2011-02-12 02:35:19 <[Noodles]> no need for a host if it's running local
482 2011-02-12 02:35:31 <jdankanyin> ok thx for the help guys and great work on it so far its very promissing
483 2011-02-12 02:35:50 <theymos> You might as well run Bitcoin itself with -rpcpassword=x if you're running the miner with the password in the clear.
484 2011-02-12 02:35:51 <RBecker> Is there any way to make the script wait until my computer has been idle for 5 minutes before starting to generate?
485 2011-02-12 02:35:59 <cosurgi> ;;seen ArtForz
486 2011-02-12 02:35:59 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 hours, 32 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <ArtForz> err... the numbers are right there in the wiki page
487 2011-02-12 02:36:16 <RBecker> cause it makes my computer lag like crazy
488 2011-02-12 02:36:36 <cosurgi> whole this slashdot crown is so funny.
489 2011-02-12 02:36:40 <cosurgi> *drowd
490 2011-02-12 02:36:55 <cosurgi> hrk. crowd. time to sleep.
491 2011-02-12 02:37:07 <andrew12> lol
492 2011-02-12 02:37:07 <cosurgi> goodnight.
493 2011-02-12 02:37:10 <RBecker> theymos, do you know?
494 2011-02-12 02:37:11 <andrew12> nini
495 2011-02-12 02:37:13 <RBecker> if there's a way
496 2011-02-12 02:37:17 bri has joined
497 2011-02-12 02:37:25 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48533
498 2011-02-12 02:37:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48533 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds
499 2011-02-12 02:37:30 <RBecker> meh
500 2011-02-12 02:37:47 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 2339664
501 2011-02-12 02:37:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2339664 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 13 hours, 15 minutes, and 24 seconds
502 2011-02-12 02:37:51 <cosurgi> meh
503 2011-02-12 02:37:57 <andrew12> heh
504 2011-02-12 02:37:59 bri has quit (Client Quit)
505 2011-02-12 02:38:03 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 600
506 2011-02-12 02:38:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 5 years, 46 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 27 minutes, and 53 seconds
507 2011-02-12 02:38:07 <andrew12> meh
508 2011-02-12 02:38:14 <RBecker> andrew12, I got the gpu miner going
509 2011-02-12 02:38:18 <andrew12> cool
510 2011-02-12 02:38:21 <RBecker> yeah
511 2011-02-12 02:38:33 <RBecker> except it slows it down like shit
512 2011-02-12 02:38:35 <theymos> RBecker: I doubt there is. IIRC changing (increasing?) the framerate switch in diablominer is supposed to improve desktop performance.
513 2011-02-12 02:38:42 <andrew12> RBecker: did you expect it not to?
514 2011-02-12 02:38:46 <RBecker> andrew12, no
515 2011-02-12 02:38:59 <RBecker> theymos, is diablominer the python miner?
516 2011-02-12 02:39:05 <cosurgi> diablo's works best on dedicated boxes.
517 2011-02-12 02:39:05 <andrew12> no
518 2011-02-12 02:39:06 <theymos> No.
519 2011-02-12 02:39:14 <andrew12> poclbm is the python miner
520 2011-02-12 02:39:20 <RBecker> there's an option for frames in here
521 2011-02-12 02:39:32 <theymos> Maybe that's the same thing.
522 2011-02-12 02:39:35 <RBecker> should I set it?
523 2011-02-12 02:39:45 <RBecker> -f FRAMES, --frames=FRAMES
524 2011-02-12 02:39:45 <RBecker> will try to bring single kernel execution to 1/frames
525 2011-02-12 02:39:45 <RBecker> seconds, default=30, increase this for less desktop
526 2011-02-12 02:39:45 <RBecker> lag
527 2011-02-12 02:39:51 <[Noodles]> --frames=30 is default on poclbm, try set it to 70 or so
528 2011-02-12 02:39:57 <RBecker> k
529 2011-02-12 02:40:20 <RBecker> lower khash/sec
530 2011-02-12 02:40:22 <RBecker> not as much lag
531 2011-02-12 02:40:24 <[Noodles]> yeah
532 2011-02-12 02:40:32 <RBecker> need to tweak it more
533 2011-02-12 02:40:34 <[Noodles]> higher frames==lower hash
534 2011-02-12 02:40:40 <RBecker> still too laggy for me
535 2011-02-12 02:40:41 Blaze has joined
536 2011-02-12 02:41:07 Blaze is now known as Guest11663
537 2011-02-12 02:41:20 <RBecker> there, 125 seems good
538 2011-02-12 02:41:24 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 45868
539 2011-02-12 02:41:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 45868 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 57 seconds
540 2011-02-12 02:41:58 <RBecker> I might only run the gpu script while I'm afk, and have it run normally
541 2011-02-12 02:42:32 <Guest11663> I am planning on starting a bit net wallet i was wondering if it is a safe as other p2p networks?
542 2011-02-12 02:42:37 <[Noodles]> create 2 start-files, one with 125, one with 5
543 2011-02-12 02:42:46 <RBecker> erm, 5?
544 2011-02-12 02:42:52 <[Noodles]> or 1 if you like ^.^
545 2011-02-12 02:43:00 <RBecker> wouldn't that like blow my gpu up
546 2011-02-12 02:43:14 <[Noodles]> maybe, if you don't cool it
547 2011-02-12 02:43:15 <andrew12> the world may never know
548 2011-02-12 02:43:40 <[Noodles]> in set those that i'm not working on to 5
549 2011-02-12 02:43:59 <[Noodles]> every hash counts ^.^
550 2011-02-12 02:43:59 <theymos> Your OS probably supplies a facility to start/end tasks depending on idleness. The Windows task scheduler can do it, I believe.
551 2011-02-12 02:44:39 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
552 2011-02-12 02:44:52 <andrew12> RBecker: what's with the crazy pm script
553 2011-02-12 02:45:07 MrCoin has joined
554 2011-02-12 02:45:20 <RBecker> andrew12: too many fake PMs
555 2011-02-12 02:45:35 <andrew12> i can assure you it's safe on freenode :p
556 2011-02-12 02:45:42 <andrew12> at least in the bitcoin channels
557 2011-02-12 02:46:04 <theymos> Guest11663: You're starting a Bitcoin wallet? What do you mean by "safe"?
558 2011-02-12 02:46:17 <jdankanyin> kool i got it working thx guys
559 2011-02-12 02:47:49 <Guest11663> the program in general, is it safe to download and will I be able to keep my general anonymity with the right precaution
560 2011-02-12 02:49:39 <theymos> Guest11663: It's safe to download and run. Anonymity is not good. See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity . If you want anonymity, the best bet is to create a separate MyBitcoin account for anonymity-requiring tasks, and only use that account for anonymous transactions.
561 2011-02-12 02:50:35 <Guest11663> how is the general community?
562 2011-02-12 02:52:24 <theymos> The Bitcoin community is the best community on Earth.
563 2011-02-12 02:52:36 <jdankanyin> ok i got it working but it not showing up in the gui just in the commandline so how do i connect it to my account
564 2011-02-12 02:53:06 <theymos> There's no indication in the Bitcoin GUI when you have an attached miner running.
565 2011-02-12 02:53:27 <jdankanyin> ah ok
566 2011-02-12 02:55:04 <jdankanyin> so where do i check to see how many blocks i have then
567 2011-02-12 02:56:01 <theymos> When you find a block, you'll get the normal "Generated" transaction. You might want to test on testnet to make sure it's all set up correctly.
568 2011-02-12 02:56:08 <jdankanyin> my khash for my miner is 24816 while it shows in the gui as 5299
569 2011-02-12 02:56:35 <theymos> Attached hash/s isn't reported in the GUI. That's CPU mining speed. You can turn off CPU mining if you want.
570 2011-02-12 02:56:55 <jdankanyin> na i run both no problem
571 2011-02-12 02:57:55 <RBecker> I have CPU and GPU mining going
572 2011-02-12 02:57:56 <jdankanyin> i got the free coins and then i sent some coins to myself and it showed up
573 2011-02-12 02:57:57 <RBecker> at the same time
574 2011-02-12 02:58:01 <RBecker> cuz I'm cool like that
575 2011-02-12 02:58:38 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 46260
576 2011-02-12 02:58:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46260 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes, and 9 seconds
577 2011-02-12 03:00:31 <jdankanyin> rbecker how many graphic cards you got going and are they over clocked
578 2011-02-12 03:00:42 <RBecker> 1, and yes, it's factory overclocked
579 2011-02-12 03:00:58 <jdankanyin> im runing a nividia 9800
580 2011-02-12 03:01:32 <RBecker> nvidia gtx 460
581 2011-02-12 03:01:48 <RBecker> I would be getting more khash/s but I have it thorttled since I'm using it
582 2011-02-12 03:01:53 <jdankanyin> im only getting 28560/s
583 2011-02-12 03:02:10 <RBecker> I would be getting 48,000 something
584 2011-02-12 03:02:15 <jdankanyin> are you on windows
585 2011-02-12 03:02:18 <RBecker> yes
586 2011-02-12 03:02:21 <RBecker> python miner
587 2011-02-12 03:02:28 <jdankanyin> yea im the same
588 2011-02-12 03:02:35 <RBecker> CPU and GPU both going
589 2011-02-12 03:02:39 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6010
590 2011-02-12 03:02:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6010 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 30 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 42 seconds
591 2011-02-12 03:02:41 <jdankanyin> your card is newer then mine
592 2011-02-12 03:02:41 <RBecker> that's CPU miner ^
593 2011-02-12 03:02:51 joe_1 has joined
594 2011-02-12 03:02:56 <RBecker> and as I said it's also factory overclocked
595 2011-02-12 03:03:10 <joe_1> What do you do if you forgot your mybitcoin password
596 2011-02-12 03:03:17 <jdankanyin> rbecker what processor i got a q6600
597 2011-02-12 03:03:28 <RBecker> phenom ii x4 955
598 2011-02-12 03:03:37 <RBecker> 3.2ghz, overclocked to 3.6
599 2011-02-12 03:03:53 <jdankanyin> mine is only 2.4 i didnt overclock it yet
600 2011-02-12 03:04:14 <RBecker> what's your khash/s, or are you not running a CPU miner?
601 2011-02-12 03:04:43 <jdankanyin> my gpu miner is 24,592 my cpu miner is 4390
602 2011-02-12 03:05:12 <jdankanyin> cpu miner has 107569 blocks
603 2011-02-12 03:05:18 <RBecker> they both should
604 2011-02-12 03:05:20 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
605 2011-02-12 03:05:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107569 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1294 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33252.56859708
606 2011-02-12 03:05:45 <davex__> what's the bitcoind command to list all transactions for all accounts? i can't seem to get it right
607 2011-02-12 03:05:50 <ntosme2> My geforce6800 only gets 6200khps
608 2011-02-12 03:06:41 <[Noodles]> 6800? that's supposed to be 8600, isn't it?
609 2011-02-12 03:06:49 <jdankanyin> im runing a quadcore processor does that do anything
610 2011-02-12 03:06:54 <ntosme2> hmm, correct
611 2011-02-12 03:07:01 <Guest11663> what goods and services can be purhased with bit coins?
612 2011-02-12 03:07:19 <jdankanyin> guest gold
613 2011-02-12 03:07:47 <theymos> davex__: Isn't it just "listtransactions"?
614 2011-02-12 03:07:58 <jdankanyin> guest check out the faq and it gives sites that accept bitcoins there as well
615 2011-02-12 03:08:11 <davex__> theymos, nah, it wants <account>
616 2011-02-12 03:08:16 <davex__> which i don't know how to get
617 2011-02-12 03:08:31 <theymos> What version are you using? Try "listtransactions '*'"
618 2011-02-12 03:09:15 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48530
619 2011-02-12 03:09:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48530 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 25 seconds
620 2011-02-12 03:09:32 <davex__> that returned an empty list, but i know i have transactions
621 2011-02-12 03:09:37 <davex__> 31900 is the version
622 2011-02-12 03:09:48 Guest11663 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
623 2011-02-12 03:11:12 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
624 2011-02-12 03:12:23 <Vladimir__> guest: anything accepting cards (via pepaid debit card funded by bitcoins), anything on amazon (via giftcards bought for bitcoins) etc...
625 2011-02-12 03:13:21 <theymos> davex__: Ah; that feature was added in a later SVN version. 0.3.19 doesn't support listing all transactions.
626 2011-02-12 03:13:38 <davex__> oh... ok
627 2011-02-12 03:13:49 <davex__> thanks for checking
628 2011-02-12 03:15:55 <theymos> There will probably be a 0.3.20 release soon. I believe we're hoping that Satoshi will become available so he can do a proper build.
629 2011-02-12 03:23:52 <rapacity> what'll happen to bitcoin if satoshi dies?
630 2011-02-12 03:24:23 <Netsniper> is he still alive?
631 2011-02-12 03:25:01 <theymos> Gavin says he is alive, but busy.
632 2011-02-12 03:25:39 <andrew12> alibusy
633 2011-02-12 03:34:20 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
634 2011-02-12 03:34:21 noagendamarket has joined
635 2011-02-12 03:38:38 <purpleposeidon> poseidon: AH HAH! Your nick is my computer login name. Connecting to freenode with irssi? Every time, man.
636 2011-02-12 03:40:48 <andrew12> o_o
637 2011-02-12 03:41:11 * andrew12 points at purpleposeidon and wiggles his finger in a circle
638 2011-02-12 03:44:33 * purpleposeidon points at andrew12 and wiggles his fingers in a pentagram
639 2011-02-12 03:45:59 tomboy64 has joined
640 2011-02-12 03:46:19 jls has joined
641 2011-02-12 03:47:40 <tomboy64> good evening
642 2011-02-12 03:48:11 <tomboy64> is someone here familiy with poclbm on linux?
643 2011-02-12 03:48:20 <hacim> some are familiar
644 2011-02-12 03:48:30 <RBecker> I use it on Windows
645 2011-02-12 03:48:46 <tomboy64> i managed to get cuda running for my nvidia chip
646 2011-02-12 03:48:56 <RBecker> I do that
647 2011-02-12 03:49:02 <tomboy64> bitcoin is running at around 500khashes
648 2011-02-12 03:49:37 <tomboy64> bitcoin is compiled at revision 186 + patched (the patch didn't work with bitcoin-latest)
649 2011-02-12 03:49:43 <RBecker> You trying to figure out how long it'll take to do a block?
650 2011-02-12 03:50:02 <tomboy64> now when i try to run poclbm it asks me again and again for username and password
651 2011-02-12 03:50:10 <tomboy64> stating every time it can't communicate
652 2011-02-12 03:50:12 <RBecker> did you specify it when starting up?
653 2011-02-12 03:50:22 <tomboy64> i ran bitcoin with -server
654 2011-02-12 03:50:30 <RBecker> with --user=user and --pass=password?
655 2011-02-12 03:50:34 <tomboy64> yes
656 2011-02-12 03:50:48 <RBecker> you ran poclbm with --user and --pass
657 2011-02-12 03:50:49 <RBecker> ?
658 2011-02-12 03:51:21 <RBecker> tomboy64 ^
659 2011-02-12 03:51:28 <theymos> r186 is quite old. An incompatability is possible.
660 2011-02-12 03:51:35 <tomboy64> RBecker, yes, i did.
661 2011-02-12 03:51:44 <RBecker> tomboy64, try --host=localhost
662 2011-02-12 03:51:45 <RBecker> that solved it for me
663 2011-02-12 03:51:45 <tomboy64> theymos, i have the same problem with bitcoin latest.
664 2011-02-12 03:52:01 <tomboy64> RBecker, i tried --host=127.0.0.1
665 2011-02-12 03:52:11 <RBecker> humor me, try localhost
666 2011-02-12 03:52:33 <tomboy64> doesn't work
667 2011-02-12 03:52:39 <tomboy64> same result
668 2011-02-12 03:52:44 <theymos> Can Bitcoin communicate with its own RPC? e.g. ./bitcoin getinfo
669 2011-02-12 03:52:46 <tomboy64> it's something with json-rpc
670 2011-02-12 03:52:53 <tomboy64> hummm
671 2011-02-12 03:53:33 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
672 2011-02-12 03:53:35 <tomboy64> theymos, apparently.
673 2011-02-12 03:53:40 <tomboy64> the results look sane
674 2011-02-12 03:54:05 dukeleto has joined
675 2011-02-12 03:55:22 <theymos> The user/password you're giving poclbm match the values in bitcoin.conf?
676 2011-02-12 03:55:54 <tomboy64> theymos, yes
677 2011-02-12 03:56:41 <tomboy64> theymos, i even tried putting the values into the default-stuff in poclbm
678 2011-02-12 03:58:27 <theymos> If you're on Linux, I'd try looking at tcpdump to see what error poclbcm is getting.
679 2011-02-12 03:58:59 <tomboy64> theymos, i am. you got the options handy?
680 2011-02-12 03:59:02 <tomboy64> :-]
681 2011-02-12 03:59:49 <theymos> tcpdump -ni lo tcp port 8332
682 2011-02-12 04:01:03 doublec has joined
683 2011-02-12 04:01:29 <theymos> That'll show you whether any connection is happening at all. If there is anything, then it's almost certainly a password problem.
684 2011-02-12 04:01:50 <andrew12> how hard would it be to write a bitcoin miner in brainfuck? :D
685 2011-02-12 04:02:01 <tomboy64> ...
686 2011-02-12 04:02:06 <tomboy64> try it out
687 2011-02-12 04:03:52 <tomboy64> theymos, ok, comm is there.
688 2011-02-12 04:04:00 <tomboy64> just to be sure: rpcuser=bla
689 2011-02-12 04:04:06 <tomboy64> rpcpass=blubb
690 2011-02-12 04:04:17 <tomboy64> with bla and blubb being the values?
691 2011-02-12 04:04:23 <theymos> Yes.
692 2011-02-12 04:04:26 <RBecker> rpcpassword
693 2011-02-12 04:04:28 <RBecker> not rpcpass
694 2011-02-12 04:04:32 <theymos> Oh; right.
695 2011-02-12 04:05:21 <tomboy64> o.O
696 2011-02-12 04:05:36 <RBecker> maybe that was your mistake
697 2011-02-12 04:05:36 jls has quit (Quit: Page closed)
698 2011-02-12 04:06:28 <theymos> If that's the problem, I wonder why ./bitcoin getinfo worked.
699 2011-02-12 04:06:58 <tomboy64> HAH!
700 2011-02-12 04:07:13 <RBecker> got it?
701 2011-02-12 04:07:18 <tomboy64> now i get: Wrong data format from RPC! :-D
702 2011-02-12 04:07:28 <RBecker> that's getting somewhere at least
703 2011-02-12 04:07:32 <tomboy64> yup
704 2011-02-12 04:07:55 <jdankanyin> how do i check my account to make sure my miner is delivering there
705 2011-02-12 04:08:01 <tomboy64> is the patch from https://github.com/m0mchil/bitcoin-getwork necessary?
706 2011-02-12 04:08:31 <theymos> That's the cause of the problem: that getwork is incompatable with Bitcoin's getwork (supported in later versions).
707 2011-02-12 04:08:43 <RBecker> I use the python miner with no problems
708 2011-02-12 04:09:12 <tomboy64> oh
709 2011-02-12 04:09:18 <jdankanyin> rbecker how do you check out how many blocks you made with your miner
710 2011-02-12 04:09:24 <tomboy64> so i should update to latest bitcoin *without* that patch?
711 2011-02-12 04:09:34 <RBecker> jdankanyin, not sure, haven't really looked into it much
712 2011-02-12 04:09:36 <theymos> Yes. Recent versions have their own getwork.
713 2011-02-12 04:10:37 <jdankanyin> rbecker with the cpu you can tell but the miner you cant seems alittle odd to me then runing it
714 2011-02-12 04:11:15 <RBecker> yeah, not sure, haven't really looked into it much
715 2011-02-12 04:11:17 HarryS has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
716 2011-02-12 04:12:27 <jdankanyin> i think something is missing or it needs to transfer from the miner to the cpu
717 2011-02-12 04:12:54 * tomboy64 plays some jeopardy music
718 2011-02-12 04:13:29 <[Noodles]> blocks show up the same way for gpu-miners and cpu-miners, there's no difference
719 2011-02-12 04:13:48 <jdankanyin> noodles where can i see thoese blocks then
720 2011-02-12 04:13:52 <[Noodles]> if you are lucky enough to find one, you're GUI will tell you
721 2011-02-12 04:14:40 <[Noodles]> your m,iner tells you, it found a hash, your GUI/bitcoind tells you that a block has been generated
722 2011-02-12 04:15:21 <jdankanyin> ah ok
723 2011-02-12 04:15:38 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
724 2011-02-12 04:15:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107578 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1285 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 23 hours, 24 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33294.07018659
725 2011-02-12 04:15:50 <[Noodles]> connect your miner to the pool, to see what it looks like when your miner finds a hash
726 2011-02-12 04:16:16 <[Noodles]> you'll see results faster on the pool (or on testnet)
727 2011-02-12 04:16:17 <jdankanyin> noodles how do i do that
728 2011-02-12 04:16:33 <jdankanyin> i just started yesterday
729 2011-02-12 04:16:37 <[Noodles]> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
730 2011-02-12 04:16:40 <[Noodles]> create an account
731 2011-02-12 04:16:48 <[Noodles]> login, create a worker
732 2011-02-12 04:17:04 <[Noodles]> use the worker-details to start your miner
733 2011-02-12 04:17:27 <[Noodles]> pretty simple
734 2011-02-12 04:18:16 <doublec> 50 Ghash in the pool. wow. what % of the network is that now?
735 2011-02-12 04:18:55 `Jaka has joined
736 2011-02-12 04:19:40 <theymos> 19%
737 2011-02-12 04:20:46 gp5st1 has joined
738 2011-02-12 04:20:56 <doublec> ok, less than I thought
739 2011-02-12 04:21:22 <gp5st1> what happens if you get a "net split" for a sig length of time? and you end up with two divergent chains?
740 2011-02-12 04:21:48 <theymos> If it lasts less than 100 blocks, there's no problem. Otherwise, lots of people lose transactions.
741 2011-02-12 04:22:09 <davex__> ;;bc,calc 50000000
742 2011-02-12 04:22:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 37 minutes and 13 seconds
743 2011-02-12 04:22:33 <gp5st1> theymos: why 100 blocks? what would happen then?
744 2011-02-12 04:23:06 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
745 2011-02-12 04:23:23 <theymos> Generations can't be spent for 100 blocks (for this very reason), so you only end up with invalid transactions if a split lasts longer than that.
746 2011-02-12 04:23:35 <gp5st1> oh i see
747 2011-02-12 04:23:46 <theymos> The generations themselves would be invalid, of course.
748 2011-02-12 04:23:59 echelon has joined
749 2011-02-12 04:24:38 <gp5st1> i was thinking forward to something like mars colonization (lunar could still comm with reasonable, non-gaming latency)
750 2011-02-12 04:25:07 <theymos> A single Bitcoin network can't work in that situation. All miners must have less than a few seconds latency between each other.
751 2011-02-12 04:25:18 <gp5st1> hmm
752 2011-02-12 04:25:55 <gp5st1> i mean, there is still a bit of time before that; i wonder if btc could become almost git like where those trees could be merged
753 2011-02-12 04:27:07 <tomboy64> is there a way that i can see how many cores are being used?
754 2011-02-12 04:27:16 <gp5st1> top?
755 2011-02-12 04:27:50 <theymos> gp5st1: I don't see any way of doing it. Generations in one branch must become invalid when merged.
756 2011-02-12 04:28:02 <tomboy64> gp5st1, of my graphics card,t hat is
757 2011-02-12 04:28:20 <gp5st1> tomboy64: not sure, sorry
758 2011-02-12 04:28:32 <gp5st1> theymos: yeah, that would make sense
759 2011-02-12 04:28:42 <jdankanyin> ok how do i use the command bitcoind
760 2011-02-12 04:29:01 <gp5st1> theymos: otherwise you could end up with many more btcs than there are suppose to be
761 2011-02-12 04:29:01 <theymos> jdankanyin: bitcoind help
762 2011-02-12 04:29:01 <tomboy64> theymos, RBecker thanks for your support. i'm up to 3200khash/sec now with my gpu
763 2011-02-12 04:29:20 <RBecker> tomboy64, awesome :)
764 2011-02-12 04:29:20 MT`AwAy is now known as zz_MT`AwAy
765 2011-02-12 04:29:22 <jdankanyin> thnk you
766 2011-02-12 04:29:35 <RBecker> tomboy64, lets see how long it'll take for you to generate a block
767 2011-02-12 04:29:39 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 3200
768 2011-02-12 04:29:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3200 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 42 minutes, and 43 seconds
769 2011-02-12 04:29:47 <RBecker> ouch
770 2011-02-12 04:29:49 zz_MT`AwAy is now known as MT`AwAy
771 2011-02-12 04:29:51 <RBecker> my cpu does better than that
772 2011-02-12 04:30:15 <jdankanyin> theymos it didnt work
773 2011-02-12 04:30:21 <tomboy64> wtf?
774 2011-02-12 04:30:28 <jdankanyin> do i type it in here only onin my commandline
775 2011-02-12 04:30:52 <theymos> gp5st1: Right. Probably each planet will have its own Bitcoin-based currency. If each currency has the same rules, I would expect the exchange rate between them to remain pretty stable.
776 2011-02-12 04:31:36 <theymos> jdankanyin: Type ./bitcoind help from the directory with the bitcoind binary.
777 2011-02-12 04:31:38 <gp5st1> theymos: that's a good point
778 2011-02-12 04:31:51 <tomboy64> RBecker, why so long?
779 2011-02-12 04:31:58 <lfm> theymos: I think you could have an interplanetary biycoin with one block per day or something
780 2011-02-12 04:31:58 <tomboy64> -.-
781 2011-02-12 04:32:05 <RBecker> tomboy64, what's your card
782 2011-02-12 04:32:18 <jdankanyin> theymos ah ok i was in wrong directory
783 2011-02-12 04:32:52 <tomboy64> RBecker, gt218
784 2011-02-12 04:32:57 <theymos> lfm: Yeah; that'd probably work. So maybe planetary currencies + an interplanetary one.
785 2011-02-12 04:33:00 <tomboy64> should have 16 cores
786 2011-02-12 04:33:30 <RBecker> tomboy64, ouch
787 2011-02-12 04:33:32 <RBecker> that's slow
788 2011-02-12 04:33:39 <RBecker> I've got a 700Mhz core clock and 366 cores
789 2011-02-12 04:33:46 <RBecker> GTX 460
790 2011-02-12 04:33:49 <tomboy64> 366? O.o
791 2011-02-12 04:33:54 <tomboy64> harumph
792 2011-02-12 04:34:01 <theymos> Do you have genproclimit set to 16?
793 2011-02-12 04:34:05 <RBecker> heh
794 2011-02-12 04:34:23 <tomboy64> uhhhhhmmmm
795 2011-02-12 04:34:26 <tomboy64> no? :-D
796 2011-02-12 04:35:54 <tomboy64> theymos, how/where do i set it?
797 2011-02-12 04:36:01 <theymos> Oh; I was thinking CPU mining. Maybe poclbc has a similar setting, though.
798 2011-02-12 04:39:46 gp5st2 has joined
799 2011-02-12 04:41:27 gp5st1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
800 2011-02-12 04:42:03 tomboy64 has quit (Quit: Bye)
801 2011-02-12 04:44:41 <jdankanyin> hey what does connect through socks4 proxy is that for connecting up your miner
802 2011-02-12 04:45:14 <theymos> No; it's for connecting through a proxy (for anonymity).
803 2011-02-12 04:54:30 skeledrew1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
804 2011-02-12 04:54:40 jdankanyin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
805 2011-02-12 04:58:59 popeye has joined
806 2011-02-12 05:01:39 <echelon> theymos, saw the new tor hidden service fallback nodes? :)
807 2011-02-12 05:02:14 <echelon> would be nice if there was node prioritization for them
808 2011-02-12 05:02:21 <theymos> I did, but I didn't feel like testing them. Do you know if they work?
809 2011-02-12 05:03:32 <echelon> they all work except the one i keep mentioning
810 2011-02-12 05:03:37 <echelon> i found out who operates it though
811 2011-02-12 05:03:50 <echelon> it's the same hidden service address mybitcoin.com uses
812 2011-02-12 05:04:03 <echelon> i'll contact him
813 2011-02-12 05:08:11 <presence> so whats the best way to cool a case down where I can't add additional fans
814 2011-02-12 05:12:44 skeledrew has joined
815 2011-02-12 05:13:28 rasengan has joined
816 2011-02-12 05:15:47 skeledrew1 has joined
817 2011-02-12 05:18:39 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
818 2011-02-12 05:26:39 <bk128> presence: add faster fans. make sure the fans are facing the right direction. there should be cool air in front of the pc. the back should have room for the pc to exhaust the hot air
819 2011-02-12 05:26:53 <bk128> don't keep it in a cabinet, remove dust from the heatsinks
820 2011-02-12 05:27:19 <bk128> upgrade heatsinks
821 2011-02-12 05:27:37 <Lachesis> dusting it off can make a huge difference
822 2011-02-12 05:27:39 <bk128> video card fans can get clogged with dust, wipe it off with a qtip or something
823 2011-02-12 05:27:50 <Lachesis> if you have an air compressor, blow it into the fans
824 2011-02-12 05:27:56 <bk128> careful removing heatsinks though. and don't power up a board if you got water on it
825 2011-02-12 05:28:10 <Lachesis> don't use water, use rubbing alcohol
826 2011-02-12 05:28:38 <Lachesis> i've been kinda wanting to make a water cooling rig
827 2011-02-12 05:28:40 <Lachesis> just for fun
828 2011-02-12 05:28:46 <bk128> don't let the fans spin when you blow compressed air on them. stick something in gently to prevent them from spinning
829 2011-02-12 05:28:54 <Lachesis> ^^ oh yeah, that's impt
830 2011-02-12 05:29:00 <Lachesis> or you'll burn out the bearings
831 2011-02-12 05:29:05 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
832 2011-02-12 05:29:06 <Lachesis> it's like 20degF outside my place right now
833 2011-02-12 05:29:19 <Lachesis> with water cooling, i could put the heat exchanger outside
834 2011-02-12 05:29:23 <Lachesis> and my machine would be so freaking cool!
835 2011-02-12 05:29:31 <bk128> or run copper pipes underground
836 2011-02-12 05:29:48 <bk128> haha, it's 30 here now in chicago. was -5 a bit ago. pipes would need antifreeze
837 2011-02-12 05:30:14 <Lachesis> bk128, yeah, can't do underground b/c i'm in a 3rd flr apt
838 2011-02-12 05:30:41 <Lachesis> and i was considering using isopropyl alcohol instead of water
839 2011-02-12 05:30:50 <bk128> haha me too. we're in a 3rd floor 2 bedroom apartment with bad insulation. time to move in the spring
840 2011-02-12 05:31:07 <Lachesis> lol yeah
841 2011-02-12 05:31:11 <bk128> refrigeration systems for indoor snow and ice rinks pump ammonia through pipes I think
842 2011-02-12 05:31:19 <bk128> but it has to be welded stainless or something
843 2011-02-12 05:31:24 <Lachesis> ammonia's nasty shit
844 2011-02-12 05:31:24 <Lachesis> yeah
845 2011-02-12 05:31:28 <bk128> yeah it is.
846 2011-02-12 05:31:45 <bk128> http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-cooling-with-a-passive-radiator/
847 2011-02-12 05:33:16 <Lachesis> in lieu of that, i want to put a duct to the window and run cold air in. probably as much work, and far less cool
848 2011-02-12 05:33:25 skeledrew has joined
849 2011-02-12 05:33:42 Moredread has joined
850 2011-02-12 05:33:58 <bk128> just turn off the heater in your apartment and run your cpu at full speed
851 2011-02-12 05:34:13 <bk128> squirrels would climb into your computer through the duct
852 2011-02-12 05:34:55 <Lachesis> bk128, lol yeah
853 2011-02-12 05:35:07 <ntosme2> bk128: that's terribly inefficient unless he's using electric space heaters already
854 2011-02-12 05:35:09 <Lachesis> can't control heat - i already have a window open b/c it gets so damn hot
855 2011-02-12 05:35:19 <Lachesis> ntosme2, i don't pay for it
856 2011-02-12 05:35:21 <bk128> too hot in the winter?
857 2011-02-12 05:35:23 <bk128> tlol
858 2011-02-12 05:35:26 <bk128> lol*
859 2011-02-12 05:35:26 <Lachesis> old steam heat
860 2011-02-12 05:35:35 <Lachesis> the building leaks heat, so they turn it up a ton to compensate
861 2011-02-12 05:35:36 <ntosme2> nice
862 2011-02-12 05:35:39 <Lachesis> by luck, i got a better room
863 2011-02-12 05:35:42 <Lachesis> and therefore am hto
864 2011-02-12 05:35:43 <Lachesis> hot*
865 2011-02-12 05:35:57 <Lachesis> i close the window at night b/c the heat turns down then
866 2011-02-12 05:36:00 <prax> been there before heh, windows open in the winter
867 2011-02-12 05:36:01 <Lachesis> and then open it when i wake up
868 2011-02-12 05:36:05 <Lachesis> yeah, kinda sucks
869 2011-02-12 05:36:15 <Lachesis> it's better now that at the beginning of the year with no heat though
870 2011-02-12 05:36:31 <ntosme2> at least you get plenty of fresh air
871 2011-02-12 05:36:40 <Lachesis> lol yeah
872 2011-02-12 05:36:43 <Lachesis> smells great in my room
873 2011-02-12 05:37:03 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
874 2011-02-12 05:37:20 <Lachesis> my roommate's room smells like a pigsty, and somehow he's cold in the winter. he's a skinny bloke, though, so i guess it makes sense.
875 2011-02-12 05:43:20 <[Noodles]> ntosme2: using your miner to heat, or your heater to mine, makes it even more efficient
876 2011-02-12 05:44:28 <ntosme2> I suppose I am doing the latter
877 2011-02-12 05:44:42 <Lachesis> heater to mine :)
878 2011-02-12 05:44:49 <ntosme2> 200 watts seems to sufficient to heat a bedroom
879 2011-02-12 05:44:53 <Lachesis> either is horribly inefficient
880 2011-02-12 05:46:46 <ntosme2> I think heating a single room with resistive heating may still win compared to 6 rooms with electric central air
881 2011-02-12 05:47:27 <RBecker> night guys
882 2011-02-12 05:48:01 <[Noodles]> not if those electrical heaters create bitcoins as a by-product
883 2011-02-12 05:48:09 <[Noodles]> that's the point
884 2011-02-12 05:49:16 <ntosme2> it would take roughly a year to "mine" $50 of bitcoins at their current value
885 2011-02-12 05:49:26 <[Noodles]> what?
886 2011-02-12 05:49:29 <RBecker> takes my gpu 3 weeka
887 2011-02-12 05:49:31 <RBecker> weeks*
888 2011-02-12 05:49:41 <[Noodles]> i currently create ~50btc a day
889 2011-02-12 05:49:51 <[Noodles]> that's about $50, isn't it?
890 2011-02-12 05:49:52 <Lachesis> [Noodles], what's your setup?
891 2011-02-12 05:49:54 <Lachesis> yes
892 2011-02-12 05:49:54 <RBecker> anyways, night
893 2011-02-12 05:50:15 <[Noodles]> but it doesnt cost me $50 a day
894 2011-02-12 05:50:17 <Lachesis> RBecker, night
895 2011-02-12 05:50:23 <RBecker> night
896 2011-02-12 05:50:31 <[Noodles]> and as a side-effect, it gets warm and comfy in here
897 2011-02-12 05:50:38 <Lachesis> [Noodles], not even when you count hw depreciation?
898 2011-02-12 05:50:42 <[Noodles]> not only for free, it makes me money
899 2011-02-12 05:50:53 <[Noodles]> not even then
900 2011-02-12 05:50:57 <Lachesis> nice
901 2011-02-12 05:51:04 <[Noodles]> my hw is already payed off
902 2011-02-12 05:51:09 <Lachesis> nice
903 2011-02-12 05:51:11 <Lachesis> what's the specs?
904 2011-02-12 05:51:14 <ntosme2> how much was your setup if I may ask?
905 2011-02-12 05:51:20 <[Noodles]> 1x5970 3x5850
906 2011-02-12 05:51:38 <[Noodles]> been ~$1200 or so
907 2011-02-12 05:51:53 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
908 2011-02-12 05:52:06 <ntosme2> wow...5850s are pretty cheap
909 2011-02-12 05:52:10 <[Noodles]> yep
910 2011-02-12 05:52:18 <Lachesis> nice that's a good setup
911 2011-02-12 05:52:24 <Lachesis> how're you running 4 gpus?
912 2011-02-12 05:52:25 <[Noodles]> just bought 2 of them few days ago
913 2011-02-12 05:52:51 <[Noodles]> i'm not running 4 in a single machine (well, not yet)
914 2011-02-12 05:53:46 <[Noodles]> it's 3 systems, single 5850, dual5850, single5970 (which has another PCIe slot left)
915 2011-02-12 05:54:30 <[Noodles]> and i don't close my window at all ^.^
916 2011-02-12 05:55:46 <gp5st2> is there an android app? i see there is a bounty, but not aware if it's been won or if anyone is working on it
917 2011-02-12 05:56:49 Necr0s has joined
918 2011-02-12 05:57:50 <bk128> where are the cheapest 5850's you found?
919 2011-02-12 05:58:05 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
920 2011-02-12 05:58:55 <[Noodles]> which brand?
921 2011-02-12 06:00:37 <[Noodles]> oh, where, not sure, i got mine for 150eur from a local shop
922 2011-02-12 06:01:26 <[Noodles]> i think luke said, he found one for 150usd, dont know if it was new though
923 2011-02-12 06:01:42 <ntosme2> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103085
924 2011-02-12 06:01:47 <ntosme2> $164 with rebate
925 2011-02-12 06:03:30 Fred_ has joined
926 2011-02-12 06:03:56 Fred_ is now known as Guest37788
927 2011-02-12 06:05:50 <citiz3n_gym> can those be unlocked
928 2011-02-12 06:05:53 <citiz3n_gym> or not
929 2011-02-12 06:05:57 citiz3n_gym is now known as citiz3n
930 2011-02-12 06:06:55 Guest37788 has quit (Client Quit)
931 2011-02-12 06:08:34 lfm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
932 2011-02-12 06:09:05 lfm has joined
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934 2011-02-12 06:14:16 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
935 2011-02-12 06:21:32 <ntosme2> well I guess I now have a reason to buy a new gfx card
936 2011-02-12 06:22:00 <ntosme2> perhaps a GTX480...
937 2011-02-12 06:22:42 <[Noodles]> lol
938 2011-02-12 06:22:50 <[Noodles]> better don't
939 2011-02-12 06:23:04 <ntosme2> no?
940 2011-02-12 06:23:07 <[Noodles]> get an ATI card if you want to use it for mining
941 2011-02-12 06:23:28 <ntosme2> http://www.geeks3d.com/20100330/geforce-gtx-480-opencl-performance-tested/
942 2011-02-12 06:23:39 <ntosme2> those specs look pretty good
943 2011-02-12 06:23:44 dissipate_ has joined
944 2011-02-12 06:23:53 <[Noodles]> no they dont
945 2011-02-12 06:23:57 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: why would you buy nvidia? thats stupid
946 2011-02-12 06:24:00 <Diablo-D3> slow as fuck shit
947 2011-02-12 06:24:13 <Diablo-D3> and very poor linux support
948 2011-02-12 06:24:13 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
949 2011-02-12 06:24:13 <[Noodles]> 250W for 150Mhash isnt that good
950 2011-02-12 06:24:31 <[Noodles]> 100Mhash
951 2011-02-12 06:25:01 <[Noodles]> better get a 5850/5870, needs <200W and is good for 300Mhash
952 2011-02-12 06:25:26 <ntosme2> hmm...wonder why that is
953 2011-02-12 06:25:46 <Diablo-D3> because nvidia is fucking retarded
954 2011-02-12 06:25:52 <[Noodles]> :D
955 2011-02-12 06:25:59 <Diablo-D3> they have a shit integer engine in their ALUs
956 2011-02-12 06:26:18 <Diablo-D3> and they refuse to fix it even though they market their shit for scientific GPGPU shit
957 2011-02-12 06:27:13 <ntosme2> the scientific market uses floating point predominately
958 2011-02-12 06:27:22 <Diablo-D3> nope
959 2011-02-12 06:28:02 <Diablo-D3> and even if that was true
960 2011-02-12 06:28:08 <ntosme2> how is ATI linux support?
961 2011-02-12 06:28:21 <Diablo-D3> if they're doing inexact calculations, and they'd probably opt for double precision...
962 2011-02-12 06:28:32 <Diablo-D3> and per watt and per dollar both, 69xx beats the shit out of anything nvidia offers
963 2011-02-12 06:29:28 `Jaka has quit ()
964 2011-02-12 06:29:48 Mango-chan has joined
965 2011-02-12 06:30:01 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: but remember, encryption IS part of the scientific use of gpgpu
966 2011-02-12 06:30:04 <Diablo-D3> and you use integer for that
967 2011-02-12 06:30:26 <Diablo-D3> and nvidia is absolutely fucked on integer performance
968 2011-02-12 06:34:58 skeledrew has joined
969 2011-02-12 06:35:18 <dissipate_> i want a GPU that does arbitrary length floating point operations
970 2011-02-12 06:36:03 <cjdelisle> arbitrary?
971 2011-02-12 06:36:17 <dissipate_> yep
972 2011-02-12 06:36:19 <Diablo-D3> BigDecimal! Its shooooowtime!
973 2011-02-12 06:36:30 <cjdelisle> ^that's what I was thinking
974 2011-02-12 06:36:36 <lfm> dissipategmp isnt ported to opencl yet
975 2011-02-12 06:36:38 <dissipate_> Diablo-D3 has the idea
976 2011-02-12 06:37:00 <dissipate_> fixed precision is sooooo '80s
977 2011-02-12 06:37:16 * Diablo-D3 listens to Toshihiko Sahasi - Sure Promise
978 2011-02-12 06:37:54 <cjdelisle> I think you're looking for a multiprecision library.
979 2011-02-12 06:38:21 <cjdelisle> according to google they exist for opencl
980 2011-02-12 06:38:28 <lfm> ya gmp but it doesnt support gpus
981 2011-02-12 06:38:35 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, no, i want it built into hardware because software based arbitrary precision is slower
982 2011-02-12 06:39:48 <cjdelisle> ahh, probably going to have to wait unless you have a few million to have a processor made
983 2011-02-12 06:40:03 <lfm> dissipate_ kinda depends if software has better algorithms it could be faster
984 2011-02-12 06:40:22 <Diablo-D3> is it bad that I actually have the big o ost to listen to just for cases like this?
985 2011-02-12 06:41:39 <dissipate_> lfm, if the floating point values don't fit into a register, then it's going to be slower.
986 2011-02-12 06:42:12 <cjdelisle> umm arbitrary size values don't fit in registers.
987 2011-02-12 06:42:41 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, that was my point
988 2011-02-12 06:42:56 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, hence, arbitrary floating point can't be as fast
989 2011-02-12 06:42:56 <cjdelisle> unless you have an arbitrary size register in which case I would like to see it.
990 2011-02-12 06:42:58 <lfm> dissipate_ if software uses fft and hardware uses schoolboy multiply the sofware will be faster on sufficiently large numbers
991 2011-02-12 06:44:20 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, there is actually theoretically such a thing in quantum computers.
992 2011-02-12 06:44:43 <dissipate_> pretty much arbitrary amount of space
993 2011-02-12 06:45:27 <lfm> do you want practical or pie in sky computer?
994 2011-02-12 06:46:04 <dissipate_> lfm, practical of course
995 2011-02-12 06:46:10 <ntosme2> or perhaps Pi in the sky
996 2011-02-12 06:46:19 <lfm> forget quantum
997 2011-02-12 06:47:04 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
998 2011-02-12 06:48:19 <cjdelisle> "theoretically such a thing in quantum" theoretically is the magic word with anything quantum
999 2011-02-12 06:49:23 <dissipate_> lfm, what i would really like to have is a cloud based 'user space', where i could change operating systems at will, use as much or as little CPU/GPU as i wanted and have access to and install desktop apps as easy as on my cell phone. then i could get rid of my laptop and pretty much all other hardware, and log in anywhere with a thin client.
1000 2011-02-12 06:50:18 <lfm> dissipate_ and I spoze you want it free?
1001 2011-02-12 06:51:01 <dissipate_> lfm, no i would be willing to pay, just like i pay for internet etc. but it's something i have wanted for a long time.
1002 2011-02-12 06:52:20 <cjdelisle> But you wouldn't want all of your secrets to be sold to the highest bidder would you?
1003 2011-02-12 06:52:40 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1004 2011-02-12 06:53:17 <lfm> cjdelisle: use encrypted storage
1005 2011-02-12 06:53:25 <dissipate_> lfm, another big advantage of a cloud based user space is you could use more exotic operating systems without the feeling of running in a virtual machine. e.g. wanna run plan 9? no problem.
1006 2011-02-12 06:53:47 <afed> you are on crack jfyi
1007 2011-02-12 06:53:51 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, keep all non-secrets in cloud, and all secrets at home. :D
1008 2011-02-12 06:54:11 llama has joined
1009 2011-02-12 06:55:31 <cjdelisle> "encrypted storage" + "quantum computers" hmm this doesn't sound good.
1010 2011-02-12 06:55:36 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1011 2011-02-12 06:56:33 <dissipate_> afed, why am i on crack?
1012 2011-02-12 06:56:49 <afed> you could use more exotic operating systems without the feeling of running in a virtual machine. e.g. wanna run plan 9? no problem.
1013 2011-02-12 06:56:53 <afed> that part
1014 2011-02-12 06:57:19 <cjdelisle> There are many reasons why people do crack, it's hard to know yours.
1015 2011-02-12 06:57:49 <lfm> plan 9 is a cool os actually, just not widley supported
1016 2011-02-12 06:58:05 <dissipate_> afed, why am i on crack? do you know about plan 9?
1017 2011-02-12 06:59:02 <afed> not as much as you, i'm sure
1018 2011-02-12 06:59:30 <dissipate_> well it's better than linux in a lot of ways
1019 2011-02-12 06:59:42 <afed> but i wonder at your use of plan 9 being so extensive that you can tell whether it is running on metal or not
1020 2011-02-12 07:00:14 <lfm> ya prolly almost all cloud stuff would be vms
1021 2011-02-12 07:00:21 <lfm> VMs
1022 2011-02-12 07:01:19 <afed> VMS would be good
1023 2011-02-12 07:02:28 lfm_ has joined
1024 2011-02-12 07:02:40 <dissipate_> afed, i would prefer not to worry about installing or managing OSes at all. i'd rather just select one from a menu and have it boot instantly.
1025 2011-02-12 07:03:17 <afed> k
1026 2011-02-12 07:04:37 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1027 2011-02-12 07:04:40 lfm_ is now known as lfm
1028 2011-02-12 07:05:11 <ntosme2> if we assume that sha-256 can approximate sha-1 in operations, we should buy Radeon HD 5830s http://golubev.com/gpuest.htm
1029 2011-02-12 07:05:16 <dissipate_> afed, like i said above: a 'user space' accessed by a thin client, that is like using a desktop computer, but has expandable resources (depending on how much you are willing to pay) and an extensive assortment of operating systems and applications available instantly on demand.
1030 2011-02-12 07:05:20 Lachesis has joined
1031 2011-02-12 07:07:41 <cjdelisle> I think a much more likely future is your computer being at home but the screensaver using your internet connection to participate in a cloud and you get paid some little bit of money for it.
1032 2011-02-12 07:07:47 <afed> dissipate_: VDI?
1033 2011-02-12 07:08:04 <lfm> ntosme2: 5970 are fastest for mining
1034 2011-02-12 07:08:28 <dissipate_> afed, that sounds about right.
1035 2011-02-12 07:08:40 <ntosme2> lfm: on a price per hashing rate basis
1036 2011-02-12 07:08:49 <dissipate_> i want it accessible from my home with all of the above.
1037 2011-02-12 07:09:12 <lfm> consider watts/per hash/sec for long term cost
1038 2011-02-12 07:10:43 joe_1 has quit ()
1039 2011-02-12 07:11:06 <lfm> ntosme2: anyway sha1 may be not good estimate
1040 2011-02-12 07:11:27 <Mango-chan> does share/s depend on the pool
1041 2011-02-12 07:11:28 <Mango-chan> or is it uniform
1042 2011-02-12 07:11:58 <lfm> Mango-chan: some pools dont use shares afaik
1043 2011-02-12 07:12:05 <Mango-chan> if they do
1044 2011-02-12 07:12:28 <lfm> Mango-chan: some pools may charge more fee/overhead
1045 2011-02-12 07:12:44 <Mango-chan> no
1046 2011-02-12 07:12:48 <Mango-chan> since bitpenny
1047 2011-02-12 07:12:51 <Mango-chan> pays per share
1048 2011-02-12 07:12:52 <Mango-chan> i was wondering
1049 2011-02-12 07:13:02 <Mango-chan> if # of shares is divided equally
1050 2011-02-12 07:13:30 <lfm> i think all use the same shares with just diff 1.0 target
1051 2011-02-12 07:14:09 <echelon> i don't get the process involved in preventing the block files from getting too big
1052 2011-02-12 07:14:30 <echelon> older transactions are expunged?
1053 2011-02-12 07:14:37 <lfm> echelon: discard transactions that are spent?
1054 2011-02-12 07:15:02 <echelon> hmm
1055 2011-02-12 07:15:38 <presence> well I took off the side of the case and put a 2 600mm fan array beside it
1056 2011-02-12 07:15:47 <lfm> echelon: you still keep all the block headers afaik
1057 2011-02-12 07:15:59 <echelon> i see
1058 2011-02-12 07:16:13 <presence> I have 2 120mm 4000rpm 70cfm fans in the box
1059 2011-02-12 07:16:31 <lfm> echelon: no one has actually implemented it yet so its still a bit theoretical
1060 2011-02-12 07:17:13 <presence> ;;bc,calc 770000
1061 2011-02-12 07:17:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 770000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 day, 16 hours, 16 minutes, and 53 seconds
1062 2011-02-12 07:17:14 <echelon> oh ok
1063 2011-02-12 07:20:00 <lfm> ntosme2: perhpas this would be better to look at for gpu comparison : https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison
1064 2011-02-12 07:20:24 <Mango-chan> anyone knowledgeable on bitcoin economics
1065 2011-02-12 07:20:36 <Mango-chan> or well have a general gist of the whole thing
1066 2011-02-12 07:20:39 <lfm> economics?
1067 2011-02-12 07:20:42 <ntosme2> lfm: ah yes, that's what I was looking for
1068 2011-02-12 07:21:05 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, somewhat.
1069 2011-02-12 07:21:19 <cjdelisle> holy shit that's a slaughter
1070 2011-02-12 07:21:25 <Mango-chan> i'm a student at a public research university
1071 2011-02-12 07:21:25 <Mango-chan> idk
1072 2011-02-12 07:21:37 <Mango-chan> nothing academic has been published on bitcoins
1073 2011-02-12 07:21:38 <cjdelisle> re "Mining_Hardware_Comparison"
1074 2011-02-12 07:21:44 <Mango-chan> i think i might look into resaerching it
1075 2011-02-12 07:21:46 <Mango-chan> w/ a professor
1076 2011-02-12 07:21:59 <lfm> Mango-chan: cool
1077 2011-02-12 07:22:00 <Mango-chan> just because i think it's interesting
1078 2011-02-12 07:22:07 <Mango-chan> but i don't want to be the main researcher
1079 2011-02-12 07:22:10 <Mango-chan> since i don't have much time
1080 2011-02-12 07:22:16 <Mango-chan> so i need to gather up my ideas/knowledge
1081 2011-02-12 07:22:18 <Mango-chan> or learn more
1082 2011-02-12 07:22:21 <Mango-chan> and then present it to a professor
1083 2011-02-12 07:22:25 <Mango-chan> and hope they'll be interested
1084 2011-02-12 07:22:27 <lfm> Mango-chan: kinda cross disipline computing and economics then eh?
1085 2011-02-12 07:22:39 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, ok, so what are your questions?
1086 2011-02-12 07:22:41 <Mango-chan> yeah i'm an intended business/cs major
1087 2011-02-12 07:22:49 <Mango-chan> i might have some later
1088 2011-02-12 07:22:57 <Mango-chan> well
1089 2011-02-12 07:23:02 <cjdelisle> seems like integer math could be done on floating registers if you were careful.
1090 2011-02-12 07:23:04 <Mango-chan> what type of economics would bitcoin fall under
1091 2011-02-12 07:23:13 <Netsniper> Mango-chan: i was cs major, econ minor
1092 2011-02-12 07:23:44 <ntosme2> 5970 is 294 Watts....ouch
1093 2011-02-12 07:24:02 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, currency exchange
1094 2011-02-12 07:24:08 <Mango-chan> monetary theory?
1095 2011-02-12 07:24:11 <Mango-chan> or is it
1096 2011-02-12 07:24:13 <Mango-chan> free market economics
1097 2011-02-12 07:24:17 <Mango-chan> or is it finance related
1098 2011-02-12 07:24:20 <dissipate_> yep
1099 2011-02-12 07:24:20 <Mango-chan> it seems very broad
1100 2011-02-12 07:24:32 <Mango-chan> so how should i present this as a subject of study
1101 2011-02-12 07:24:34 <lfm> cjdelisle: yes, in fact the fastest long integers algorithms for VERY large numbers actually use dp floats
1102 2011-02-12 07:24:39 <Mango-chan> any ideas
1103 2011-02-12 07:24:40 <dissipate_> well, probably monetary theory, and definitely free market economics.
1104 2011-02-12 07:25:14 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, present it as a study of unregulated markets
1105 2011-02-12 07:25:39 <Mango-chan> good one
1106 2011-02-12 07:25:42 <Mango-chan> i'll write that down
1107 2011-02-12 07:25:46 <Mango-chan> what else?
1108 2011-02-12 07:25:58 <dissipate_> currency speculation
1109 2011-02-12 07:26:12 <Mango-chan> do you think the bitcoin thing is a bubble?
1110 2011-02-12 07:26:17 <dissipate_> bitcoins are currently highly speculative
1111 2011-02-12 07:26:21 <lfm> compare it to old unregulated markets where huge bubble/bust cycles were standard, bitcoin hasnt seen the huge bust side yet
1112 2011-02-12 07:26:47 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, i personally do not, but i can see how others may think it is.
1113 2011-02-12 07:26:53 <Mango-chan> explain your pov
1114 2011-02-12 07:26:57 <Mango-chan> i mean
1115 2011-02-12 07:27:01 <Mango-chan> i see both sides of the argument
1116 2011-02-12 07:27:04 <Mango-chan> kind of
1117 2011-02-12 07:27:12 <Mango-chan> one side is saying that this form of currency has actual use
1118 2011-02-12 07:27:18 <Mango-chan> other side is saying people are buying bitcoins
1119 2011-02-12 07:27:21 <Mango-chan> b/c they're speculating
1120 2011-02-12 07:27:35 <lfm> we are currently at tulip mainia level of development
1121 2011-02-12 07:27:52 Myckel has joined
1122 2011-02-12 07:27:52 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
1123 2011-02-12 07:27:52 Myckel has joined
1124 2011-02-12 07:28:04 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, i don't think it is because i see an explosion of sites and services for bitcoin
1125 2011-02-12 07:28:34 <Mango-chan> lfm
1126 2011-02-12 07:28:46 <Mango-chan> wait
1127 2011-02-12 07:28:56 <dissipate_> if it was a bubble it would be just people hoarding them and not really doing much with them. however, i see all kinds of projects being built around bitcoin, including point of sale and even a virtual lottery system.
1128 2011-02-12 07:29:08 <Mango-chan> byt
1129 2011-02-12 07:29:09 <Mango-chan> but
1130 2011-02-12 07:29:30 <Mango-chan> how much of the userbase is actually buying bitcoins/hoarding them
1131 2011-02-12 07:29:43 <Mango-chan> to see if the value of it accumulates
1132 2011-02-12 07:29:50 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, actually if i were you i would focus in on the virtual aspect of bitcoin
1133 2011-02-12 07:30:21 <Mango-chan> i wonder if anyone has studied e-gold
1134 2011-02-12 07:30:23 <Mango-chan> or something
1135 2011-02-12 07:30:24 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, there are entire purely virtual markets that could flourish with bitcoin. some of them are being built now.
1136 2011-02-12 07:30:35 <Mango-chan> hm
1137 2011-02-12 07:30:44 <Mango-chan> for example?
1138 2011-02-12 07:30:52 <dissipate_> there is a bitcoin lottery
1139 2011-02-12 07:30:57 <dissipate_> pure virtual fun
1140 2011-02-12 07:31:21 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, http://taabl.datlatec.com/
1141 2011-02-12 07:31:22 <Mango-chan> aren't mmo markets
1142 2011-02-12 07:31:26 <Mango-chan> "purely virtual" as well?
1143 2011-02-12 07:31:45 <dissipate_> yes, they are, but those are restricted to in game events for the most part
1144 2011-02-12 07:31:55 <dissipate_> bitcoin is a virtual currency for anything, not just games.
1145 2011-02-12 07:32:44 <Mango-chan> hm
1146 2011-02-12 07:33:19 <Mango-chan> dissipate do you know about e-gold
1147 2011-02-12 07:33:24 <dissipate_> yes i do
1148 2011-02-12 07:33:27 <Mango-chan> would you say that btc and e-gold are fundamentally different?
1149 2011-02-12 07:33:33 <Mango-chan> since e-gold is actually backed by gold
1150 2011-02-12 07:33:35 <Mango-chan> by a company
1151 2011-02-12 07:33:38 <dissipate_> yes i would
1152 2011-02-12 07:34:02 <dissipate_> e-gold has a number of flaws that bitcoin has overcome
1153 2011-02-12 07:34:23 <dissipate_> first of all, it is operated centrally
1154 2011-02-12 07:34:41 <Mango-chan> yes
1155 2011-02-12 07:34:53 <dissipate_> so not only do you have to trust the e-gold operators, you have to believe they won't get shut down
1156 2011-02-12 07:35:05 <Mango-chan> aha
1157 2011-02-12 07:35:06 <Mango-chan> that's right
1158 2011-02-12 07:35:26 <Mango-chan> and since bitcoin is distributed..
1159 2011-02-12 07:35:27 <Mango-chan> yeah
1160 2011-02-12 07:36:00 <dissipate_> second of all, you can ultimately only send e-gold to other e-gold account holders who have to provide credentials to open an e-gold account
1161 2011-02-12 07:36:53 <dissipate_> that is a lot more friction and less anonymous than downloading a single app and creating a wallet on your own hard drive.
1162 2011-02-12 07:37:05 <Mango-chan> right
1163 2011-02-12 07:37:07 <cjdelisle> While we are talking about potantial problems, what about the fact that there will be more transactions per day as there are more users but the number of blocks will always remain 1 per 10 minute?
1164 2011-02-12 07:37:29 <cjdelisle> It sounds like a scaling issue.
1165 2011-02-12 07:37:59 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, actually, that's not as big of a problem as you think.
1166 2011-02-12 07:38:04 <lfm> I think a government or simplarly large intitution could still take over bitcoin basically for the price of about 500 gpus
1167 2011-02-12 07:38:39 <Mango-chan> how would you take over it?
1168 2011-02-12 07:38:55 <lfm> out compuet the rest of the net
1169 2011-02-12 07:38:55 <Mango-chan> can someone explain the whole security thing
1170 2011-02-12 07:39:02 <cjdelisle> 500 gpus lol, they use hardware key search circuits.
1171 2011-02-12 07:39:28 <dissipate_> lfm, i doubt that,haha.
1172 2011-02-12 07:39:30 <lfm> 500 gpus cheaper
1173 2011-02-12 07:39:38 <cjdelisle> thousands or even hundreds of thousands to a die, probably millions of dies to a building.
1174 2011-02-12 07:39:53 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1175 2011-02-12 07:40:05 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, did you see my private message?
1176 2011-02-12 07:40:17 bk128 is now known as Ilama
1177 2011-02-12 07:40:50 ntosme2 has left ()
1178 2011-02-12 07:41:42 <lfm> if you read the original bitcoin paper, it outlines how to take over. you only need more than 51% of the computing power of the net.
1179 2011-02-12 07:41:53 Netsniper has joined
1180 2011-02-12 07:42:19 Ilama is now known as eV64
1181 2011-02-12 07:42:44 <cjdelisle> Well it's good to hear that the attack has been discussed.
1182 2011-02-12 07:42:46 <lfm> as time goes on it gets harder with more miners grinding
1183 2011-02-12 07:43:10 <cjdelisle> Still search circuits pwn all.
1184 2011-02-12 07:43:47 <lfm> cjdelisle: well I guess you are privy to secrets that the rest of the world is not
1185 2011-02-12 07:44:29 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1186 2011-02-12 07:44:37 <Mango-chan> is bitcoin legal or illegal or grey
1187 2011-02-12 07:44:42 <cjdelisle> It's not a secret that governments use hardware to attack ciphers and hashes.
1188 2011-02-12 07:44:58 <lfm> Mango-chan: what country?
1189 2011-02-12 07:45:11 <cjdelisle> It's like an fpga on steroids
1190 2011-02-12 07:45:17 <Mango-chan> US
1191 2011-02-12 07:45:57 <lfm> probably legal viewed more as a commodity than as a currency
1192 2011-02-12 07:46:21 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1193 2011-02-12 07:47:00 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, bitcoin itself is legal
1194 2011-02-12 07:47:10 <midnightmagic_> so for every new wave of interest, do people keep coming in and asking the same questions like that?
1195 2011-02-12 07:47:15 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, but using bitcoin can definitely have tax consequences
1196 2011-02-12 07:47:31 <lfm> midnightmagicpretty much ya
1197 2011-02-12 07:47:53 <eV64> anyone think it's a good/bad deal to give someone in bitcoin-otc 240 btc for a used 5870 and a psu?
1198 2011-02-12 07:48:03 <midnightmagic_> jesus, brutal. no wonder art loses his patience from time to time..
1199 2011-02-12 07:49:31 <Mango-chan> eV64 sounds good
1200 2011-02-12 07:49:33 <Mango-chan> what psu though
1201 2011-02-12 07:49:37 <lfm> the supersecret awsome superduper blow us all away computing capacity of various secret agencies is a recurring theme as well
1202 2011-02-12 07:49:56 <midnightmagic_> lfm: CSIS even measures their computing power in "acres". :)
1203 2011-02-12 07:50:16 <lfm> haha
1204 2011-02-12 07:50:32 <eV64> he was going to send me the model # tonight. but he said it had the aux connectors. do people usually pay half up front for those kind of deals? I guess you have to just trust the person
1205 2011-02-12 07:50:32 <lfm> acres of eniacs are not impressive
1206 2011-02-12 07:50:46 <midnightmagic_> HAHAHAHA!
1207 2011-02-12 07:50:56 <Mango-chan> eV64 use
1208 2011-02-12 07:51:00 <Mango-chan> a middleman
1209 2011-02-12 07:51:01 <Mango-chan> or something
1210 2011-02-12 07:51:03 <doublec> eV64: consider using clearcoin
1211 2011-02-12 07:51:06 <eV64> bitcoin escrow?
1212 2011-02-12 07:51:13 <doublec> yes
1213 2011-02-12 07:52:07 <midnightmagic_> cjdelisle: the network is specifically designed to have an expected, and measurable supply that people can depend on. the network itself decides to scale up (or down) the difficulty to ensure that, on average, blocks come every 600 seconds. it's 100% deliberate.
1214 2011-02-12 07:52:10 <doublec> also there's at least one recurring scammer according to the forums
1215 2011-02-12 07:52:15 <doublec> make sure its not them
1216 2011-02-12 07:52:36 <presence> ;;bc,nextblock
1217 2011-02-12 07:52:36 <gribble> Error: "bc,nextblock" is not a valid command.
1218 2011-02-12 07:52:39 <midnightmagic_> bitcoin-otc has ratings..
1219 2011-02-12 07:52:48 <eV64> doublec: okay. thanks
1220 2011-02-12 07:52:57 <presence> ;;bc,stats
1221 2011-02-12 07:52:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107610 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1253 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33455.64404561
1222 2011-02-12 07:53:41 <presence> ;;bc,calc 770000 33455.64404561
1223 2011-02-12 07:53:42 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1224 2011-02-12 07:53:55 <midnightmagic_> ;;bc,calcd 770000 33455.64404561
1225 2011-02-12 07:53:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 770000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 33455.64404561, is 2 days, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 11 seconds
1226 2011-02-12 07:54:08 <cjdelisle> "on average, blocks come every 600 seconds" hmm, does this not mean that the cost of buying and selling will increase as there are more transactions?
1227 2011-02-12 07:55:00 <lfm> cjdelisle: almost any numbers of transactions per block
1228 2011-02-12 07:55:19 Netsniper has joined
1229 2011-02-12 07:55:40 <cjdelisle> Ok so the 1MB size limit is not a real limiting factor.
1230 2011-02-12 07:56:29 <lfm> biggest blcok ever was 200k. current limit at 50k is easy to change
1231 2011-02-12 07:56:48 <cjdelisle> I see.
1232 2011-02-12 07:57:22 <lfm> current limit is mainly just to discourage samming
1233 2011-02-12 07:57:27 <lfm> spamming
1234 2011-02-12 08:03:56 CIA-117 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1235 2011-02-12 08:06:01 CIA-63 has joined
1236 2011-02-12 08:06:45 <Lachesis> ;;bc,calc 200000
1237 2011-02-12 08:06:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 6 days, 11 hours, 5 minutes, and 0 seconds
1238 2011-02-12 08:26:05 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
1239 2011-02-12 08:46:59 pavelo has joined
1240 2011-02-12 08:49:51 <cosurgi> grrr! The fan speed of first card is stuck at 66%, and I can't make it 100%, no matter what I'm doing: DISPLAY=:0 , DISPLAY=:0.0 I've ran out of ideas
1241 2011-02-12 08:50:06 <cosurgi> ;;seen ArtForz
1242 2011-02-12 08:50:07 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 13 hours, 46 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <ArtForz> err... the numbers are right there in the wiki page
1243 2011-02-12 08:50:29 <cosurgi> ArtForz: do you know how to force a fan to be really 100% ?
1244 2011-02-12 08:51:16 <eV64> where should i go to sell a cisco 3750g 24 port layer switch for bitcoins?
1245 2011-02-12 08:51:17 <cosurgi> ArtForz: three identical 5870 in this box. setting fanspeed for DISPLAY=:0.1 and DISPLAY=:0.2 works. But for DISPLAY=:0.0 does not.
1246 2011-02-12 08:51:25 <eV64> layer 3 switch*
1247 2011-02-12 08:52:05 <Mango-chan> don't use linux
1248 2011-02-12 08:55:54 <lfm> cosurgi: this doesnt work? : aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 100"
1249 2011-02-12 08:57:21 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1250 2011-02-12 09:00:58 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
1251 2011-02-12 09:11:48 MartianW has joined
1252 2011-02-12 09:18:47 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1253 2011-02-12 09:22:16 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1254 2011-02-12 09:27:21 TheAncientGoat has joined
1255 2011-02-12 09:29:04 larsivi has joined
1256 2011-02-12 09:30:15 <cjdelisle> Thought you folks might find this interesting.
1257 2011-02-12 09:30:17 <cjdelisle> http://www.pastebay.com/114488
1258 2011-02-12 09:30:55 <lfm> what is it
1259 2011-02-12 09:31:02 <cjdelisle> This is a POC proof of work algorithm which requires 4 kilobytes of memory per thread.
1260 2011-02-12 09:31:24 <lfm> poc?
1261 2011-02-12 09:31:48 <cjdelisle> Getting rid of the memory requirement entirely would cause the processor cost to increase by a lot.
1262 2011-02-12 09:31:55 <cjdelisle> (proof of concept)
1263 2011-02-12 09:32:01 <cjdelisle> (written tonight)
1264 2011-02-12 09:33:11 <cjdelisle> It makes a guess, xors the guess against the content to "sign" and hashes 64 times, then it xors each of the hash outputs in reverse order and hashes another 64 times.
1265 2011-02-12 09:33:34 <cjdelisle> (yes it is expensive to validate)
1266 2011-02-12 09:33:49 <lfm> whats the advantage?
1267 2011-02-12 09:34:05 eV64 has quit (Quit: eV64)
1268 2011-02-12 09:34:16 <cjdelisle> You can't put 1 million key search circuits on a chip if each one requires 4k of memory.
1269 2011-02-12 09:34:35 <cjdelisle> Also I don't think it could be done efficiently on a video card.
1270 2011-02-12 09:35:27 <lfm> why is that an advantage? and are you sure?
1271 2011-02-12 09:36:15 <cjdelisle> Well I would count it as an advantage for regular people to be able to get involved without being muscled out by the radon/fpga mafia.
1272 2011-02-12 09:36:30 <cjdelisle> (or worse a real set of key search circuits)
1273 2011-02-12 09:37:10 <lfm> I dont think you can put a million sha256 circuits on a chip either
1274 2011-02-12 09:37:14 <cjdelisle> And I can say for sure that to remove all of the memory expense would increase the processor expense by a factorial of the current processor expense.
1275 2011-02-12 09:37:42 <cjdelisle> err bad wording but you get the picture
1276 2011-02-12 09:38:03 <lfm> nope, I dont know the problem you are trying to solve yet?
1277 2011-02-12 09:38:49 <cjdelisle> The "someone will invent a super powerful computer which will make everything fail" problem.
1278 2011-02-12 09:39:22 <cjdelisle> There simply is no efficient way to parallelize memory hard functions.
1279 2011-02-12 09:39:25 <lfm> oh the hypothetical future problem that may never happen?
1280 2011-02-12 09:39:44 <lfm> and some fpga have memory
1281 2011-02-12 09:39:54 <cjdelisle> How much?
1282 2011-02-12 09:40:01 larsivi has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1283 2011-02-12 09:40:02 <lfm> how much do you want?
1284 2011-02-12 09:40:07 <lfm> megabytes?
1285 2011-02-12 09:40:16 larsivi has joined
1286 2011-02-12 09:40:40 <cjdelisle> 4k per thread, you probably need a few thousand threads to be efficient on an fpga, yup.
1287 2011-02-12 09:41:02 <lfm> or maybe just one if its pipelined well
1288 2011-02-12 09:41:32 <cjdelisle> I understand fpga clock speed is not that fast.
1289 2011-02-12 09:41:49 <cjdelisle> aka slower than a consumer proc.
1290 2011-02-12 09:42:03 <lfm> and you understand it takes a few gates to do a sha256
1291 2011-02-12 09:42:30 <lfm> more than a few really
1292 2011-02-12 09:42:37 <cjdelisle> oh yea, another thing, the code I wrote uses salsa20 instead of sha256.
1293 2011-02-12 09:42:43 Lube has joined
1294 2011-02-12 09:42:52 <lfm> never heard of it
1295 2011-02-12 09:43:22 <cjdelisle> I used it mainly because I could paste it into the code without much trouble.
1296 2011-02-12 09:43:32 <cjdelisle> It's fast on a proc cna hard to make into hardware.
1297 2011-02-12 09:43:45 <lfm> salsa20 is a stream cypher, not even meant to be a hashing routine
1298 2011-02-12 09:44:43 <cjdelisle> http://cr.yp.to/salsa20.html
1299 2011-02-12 09:44:44 larsivi_ has joined
1300 2011-02-12 09:45:01 <lfm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa20
1301 2011-02-12 09:45:18 <cjdelisle> It is defined as a hash, it does not compress nor is it collision resistant but those are not requirements.
1302 2011-02-12 09:45:58 <cjdelisle> The stream cypher is lols. He uses the hash function and XORs the output against the content to encrypt.
1303 2011-02-12 09:46:06 <lfm> seems to me to be less secure than sha256
1304 2011-02-12 09:46:22 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1305 2011-02-12 09:46:31 <cjdelisle> I have to validate my implementation but salsa20 itself, no.
1306 2011-02-12 09:47:24 <pavelo> furthermore, it is less used (and scrutinized) than sha, so there is a greater chance some weakness will be found
1307 2011-02-12 09:47:30 <lfm> cjdelisle: so you want to make a new bitcoin based on this?
1308 2011-02-12 09:48:04 <cjdelisle> Not really, I realize you couldn't change your algo if you wanted to. I just thought it was worth sharing.
1309 2011-02-12 09:48:14 larsivi_ has quit (Client Quit)
1310 2011-02-12 09:48:28 larsivi has joined
1311 2011-02-12 09:48:45 <lfm> ya maybe you could make a paper outa it but it prolly is of little interest to bitcoin in reality
1312 2011-02-12 09:49:22 <cjdelisle> "less used (and scrutinized)" <-- this is a feature, the most widely used algorithms are also the ones which hardware crachers are the most widely available.
1313 2011-02-12 09:49:25 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1314 2011-02-12 09:49:51 <cjdelisle> Notice PGP uses CAST-5/ElGamel instead of everyone's favorite, AES
1315 2011-02-12 09:50:21 <lfm> i think pgp came before aes
1316 2011-02-12 09:50:55 <cjdelisle> Indeed it did but it has changed default ciphers and crypto algorithms a few times over the years.
1317 2011-02-12 09:51:05 <pavelo> but at least you know the hash doesn't have a weakness that would enable someone to trivially reverse the function
1318 2011-02-12 09:51:07 <lfm> and pgp allows subtitutions of various algorithms
1319 2011-02-12 09:51:13 <pavelo> (without the special hardware)
1320 2011-02-12 09:51:31 <cjdelisle> Well... It _was_ made by the nsa ;)
1321 2011-02-12 09:51:36 Lube has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1322 2011-02-12 09:51:53 <lfm> and I dont see what it inherently has that prevents hardware optimizations
1323 2011-02-12 09:52:36 <cjdelisle> I don't actually know either but it lost a competition because it was judged to be harder to implement in hardware.
1324 2011-02-12 09:52:47 <lfm> it may be slower than sha256 on hardware but it is also slower on software
1325 2011-02-12 09:53:47 <cjdelisle> I don't know about salsa20 but I know for a fact that my little implementation is much harder to validate than the default, it wreally was a tradeoff i had to make.
1326 2011-02-12 09:54:27 <cjdelisle> It runs the function 128 times for a validation.
1327 2011-02-12 09:55:20 <Diablo-D3> [04:43:15] <cjdelisle> Notice PGP uses CAST-5/ElGamel instead of everyone's favorite, AES
1328 2011-02-12 09:55:26 <Diablo-D3> why would it use AES?
1329 2011-02-12 09:55:39 <cjdelisle> because it wants to encipher an email?
1330 2011-02-12 09:56:14 <cjdelisle> (also it doesn't use RSA for it's default public key stuff)
1331 2011-02-12 09:56:57 <lfm> iirc the original pgp used rsa
1332 2011-02-12 09:57:02 <cjdelisle> err actually IIRC it uses RSA/Elgamel but it's not vanilla RSA.
1333 2011-02-12 09:57:24 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: but AES is a symemetric key cipher
1334 2011-02-12 09:58:19 <lfm> ya pgp uses a symetric cypher for bulk encryption for speed
1335 2011-02-12 09:58:38 <cjdelisle> And RSA has a small maximum payload size
1336 2011-02-12 09:58:47 <Diablo-D3> ElGamal isnt a symmetric key cipher
1337 2011-02-12 09:59:31 <lfm> cjdelisle: no maximum really you could use straight rsa for bulk encryption but it would be pretty slow
1338 2011-02-12 09:59:31 <cjdelisle> What they do is encrypt the symmetric key using the asymmetric key.
1339 2011-02-12 09:59:32 <Diablo-D3> public key cryptography hinges on the use of asymmetric key ciphers
1340 2011-02-12 10:00:18 <cjdelisle> "no maximum really" Ahh you're probably right, it's just bouncycastle that imposes a limit.
1341 2011-02-12 10:01:18 <lfm> cjdelisle: ya some implementations impose a single block limit ie one cycle of the algorithm
1342 2011-02-12 10:02:35 <lfm> Diablo-D3: every "message" uses a unique symetric key passed on ecrypted by the asymetric algorithm
1343 2011-02-12 10:03:23 <lfm> Diablo-D3: done like this for speed, the aysmetric algorithms are 1000s of times slower
1344 2011-02-12 10:03:49 <lfm> or at least tend to be for symilar security
1345 2011-02-12 10:03:54 <Diablo-D3> except asymmetric means that the key used to encrypt the payload isnt the one thats used to decrypt it
1346 2011-02-12 10:04:48 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ya, but they just encrypt the "session" symetric key with the asymetic algorithm
1347 2011-02-12 10:05:16 <cjdelisle> Just checked, I think my mail client uses a DSA signing key with an Elgamel crypto key
1348 2011-02-12 10:05:46 <lfm> cjdelisle: signed then, not actually encrypted
1349 2011-02-12 10:06:22 <cjdelisle> I think elgamel does encryption.
1350 2011-02-12 10:06:25 * Diablo-D3 gives up
1351 2011-02-12 10:06:32 <Diablo-D3> believe what you want to believe
1352 2011-02-12 10:06:36 <Diablo-D3> Im too tired to argue
1353 2011-02-12 10:06:41 <cjdelisle> hehe
1354 2011-02-12 10:06:42 <Diablo-D3> go read wikipedia
1355 2011-02-12 10:06:46 <lfm> oh I see, it would use yet another key and algorithm for symetric operations
1356 2011-02-12 10:06:56 <cjdelisle> read? more fun to write in it :D
1357 2011-02-12 10:07:33 <lfm> Diablo-D3: seems you're too tired to read wiki too
1358 2011-02-12 10:07:52 <cjdelisle> I think they decided to sign with DSA (which is supposed to be really good for signing) then encrypt with Elgamel because DSA is for signing only.
1359 2011-02-12 10:08:21 <cjdelisle> (Out on a limb there, I just see 2 keys in one)
1360 2011-02-12 10:08:21 <lfm> cjdelisle: ya, as opposed to rsa which does both
1361 2011-02-12 10:09:14 <Diablo-D3> they dont use RSA for both though
1362 2011-02-12 10:09:30 <Diablo-D3> they only use RSA for signatures
1363 2011-02-12 10:09:35 <cjdelisle> IIRC there was something bad about signing and encrypting with the same key, it kind of sounds like it might make cryptoanalisys easier.
1364 2011-02-12 10:09:58 <cjdelisle> hehe tired?
1365 2011-02-12 10:10:16 <lfm> well rsa is still out there still as secure as factoring problem
1366 2011-02-12 10:10:52 <lfm> PGP encryption uses a serial combination of hashing, data compression, symmetric-key cryptography, and, finally, public-key cryptography; each step uses one of several supported algorithms.
1367 2011-02-12 10:10:59 <lfm> direct from wiki
1368 2011-02-12 10:11:20 <cjdelisle> ECC is so much nicer though, little keys and big strength.
1369 2011-02-12 10:11:41 <cjdelisle> Just don't use the SAME RANDOM NUMBER each time lol.
1370 2011-02-12 10:11:49 <lfm> lol
1371 2011-02-12 10:11:52 <Diablo-D3> lolsony
1372 2011-02-12 10:12:26 <cjdelisle> You familiar with curve25519?
1373 2011-02-12 10:13:01 <Diablo-D3> no, but Im familiar with the number 4.
1374 2011-02-12 10:13:07 <lfm> cjdelisle: I never reall understood ecc. I did figure out in detail and implement a version of rsa for myslef
1375 2011-02-12 10:13:22 <cjdelisle> That is cool
1376 2011-02-12 10:13:26 <ArtForz> actually the same thing happens with plain ole DSA
1377 2011-02-12 10:13:36 <ArtForz> re-use K and you're toast
1378 2011-02-12 10:13:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes, ECDSA isnt really "different" than DSA
1379 2011-02-12 10:14:00 <lfm> might as well use same key for one time pad
1380 2011-02-12 10:14:03 <Diablo-D3> it just substitutes the problem set for a different one
1381 2011-02-12 10:14:27 <cjdelisle> ECC has a lot of complexity but it boils down to a 2 dimentional version of RSA so the factoring problem is harder.
1382 2011-02-12 10:14:40 <ArtForz> basically, yep
1383 2011-02-12 10:14:49 <cjdelisle> (probably an oversimplification)
1384 2011-02-12 10:14:57 <ArtForz> yes, but useful
1385 2011-02-12 10:15:02 <lfm> oversimplifications are cool
1386 2011-02-12 10:15:08 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: well, ECDSA vs DSA, thats a decent description
1387 2011-02-12 10:15:17 <Diablo-D3> they exchanged the factorial problem for a EC problem
1388 2011-02-12 10:15:35 <lfm> factoring, not factorial
1389 2011-02-12 10:15:42 <cjdelisle> It's still factoring, it's just that the numbers are points.
1390 2011-02-12 10:16:03 <Diablo-D3> well, its still essentially the SAME problem: none of us have enough CPU time
1391 2011-02-12 10:16:09 <ArtForz> yep
1392 2011-02-12 10:16:20 <ArtForz> unless you use crazy-small numbers
1393 2011-02-12 10:16:40 <lfm> like rsa useing 5 and 23
1394 2011-02-12 10:17:35 <cjdelisle> Anyway, curve25519 makes diffey helman negotiation trivial. just pick a random (32 byte) number and feed it to the function, take the output and send it to the other user, take what they send you and feed it to the function, you have your key.
1395 2011-02-12 10:18:15 <ArtForz> more like smartcards using rsa512 or 64-bit ECC
1396 2011-02-12 10:18:31 <cjdelisle> 64-bit? byte?
1397 2011-02-12 10:18:37 <ArtForz> no, 64 bit
1398 2011-02-12 10:18:44 <cjdelisle> oh hehe
1399 2011-02-12 10:18:45 <ArtForz> as in, takes a few hours on a PC to break
1400 2011-02-12 10:18:47 <lfm> eww!
1401 2011-02-12 10:19:01 <ArtForz> rsa512 isn't much better
1402 2011-02-12 10:19:08 <cjdelisle> then I looked over at the rsa512 part...
1403 2011-02-12 10:19:23 <ArtForz> rsa512 takes about a week on a single PC
1404 2011-02-12 10:19:28 <cjdelisle> rsa1024 isn't much better
1405 2011-02-12 10:19:38 <cjdelisle> not breakable _now_
1406 2011-02-12 10:19:47 <cjdelisle> DNSSEC root key lol
1407 2011-02-12 10:20:01 Jeroenz0r has joined
1408 2011-02-12 10:20:26 <ArtForz> rsa1024 probably wont have more than a few years left
1409 2011-02-12 10:21:27 <lfm> I think it mainly depends on factoring algorithm development more than hardware moores law or whatever. harder to predict it would seem
1410 2011-02-12 10:21:32 <ArtForz> yep
1411 2011-02-12 10:22:03 <cjdelisle> Also there is the signing algorithm, if that can be reversed then factoring doesn't much matter.
1412 2011-02-12 10:22:10 <cjdelisle> err verification
1413 2011-02-12 10:22:32 <ArtForz> main problem with factoring bigger RSAs with current algorithms is the linear algebra step
1414 2011-02-12 10:22:59 <ArtForz> sieving is fully parallel
1415 2011-02-12 10:23:04 <ArtForz> matrix solving... not so much
1416 2011-02-12 10:23:09 <cjdelisle> I looked at it and I fell down at the point where it turned into a sine function.
1417 2011-02-12 10:23:24 <cjdelisle> damn modulus :P
1418 2011-02-12 10:23:48 <ArtForz> iirc best current parallel matrix solvers scale with log(#nodes) and need shitloads of interconnect bandwidth
1419 2011-02-12 10:24:35 <cjdelisle> interconnects kill
1420 2011-02-12 10:24:56 TD_ has joined
1421 2011-02-12 10:25:01 <cosurgi> ArtForz: do you know how to force a fan to be really 100% ?
1422 2011-02-12 10:25:04 <cosurgi> ArtForz: three identical 5870 in this box. setting fanspeed for DISPLAY=:0.1 and DISPLAY=:0.2 works. But for DISPLAY=:0.0 does not.
1423 2011-02-12 10:25:45 <ArtForz> err... thats weird
1424 2011-02-12 10:25:47 <cosurgi> ArtForz: is it correct that with :0.0 I am adressing the fan on first card? :0.1 for second, and so on?
1425 2011-02-12 10:25:47 <ArtForz> it should work
1426 2011-02-12 10:25:48 <necrodearia> It appears http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=4385 is spambot on bitcoin forum that managed to get through spam filters.
1427 2011-02-12 10:25:53 <ArtForz> yes
1428 2011-02-12 10:26:03 <lfm> coserhardware? switch fans around?
1429 2011-02-12 10:26:13 <ArtForz> tried swapping cards around?
1430 2011-02-12 10:26:23 <lfm> cosurgi: hardware? switch fans around?
1431 2011-02-12 10:26:40 <cosurgi> ArtForz: after reboot it works for about two hours. Then fan goes to ~50%, temp goes to 95C, card downclocks to 600.
1432 2011-02-12 10:26:47 <ArtForz> wtf
1433 2011-02-12 10:26:48 <cosurgi> lfm: that's fans on GPU
1434 2011-02-12 10:26:49 <ArtForz> asked differently, are the cards identical hardware?
1435 2011-02-12 10:27:03 <cosurgi> ArtForz: yes, exactly identical. I bought five 5870.
1436 2011-02-12 10:27:16 <ArtForz> ok, thats REALLY weird
1437 2011-02-12 10:27:48 <lfm> so if you switch the cards its still DISPALY=0.0 that is fubar? sounds like something in driver
1438 2011-02-12 10:27:57 <cjdelisle> cut a fan into the side of the computer, pressurize the whole inside?
1439 2011-02-12 10:28:21 <cosurgi> yes, I'll switch cards, I think
1440 2011-02-12 10:28:31 <lfm> the "smartfan" whatcacallit is still running
1441 2011-02-12 10:28:59 <ArtForz> yeah, could be driver fucking up
1442 2011-02-12 10:30:19 <ArtForz> I'd try swapping cards and see if the problem moves with the card
1443 2011-02-12 10:31:43 <ArtForz> maybe try disabling atieventsd
1444 2011-02-12 10:34:17 <MartianW> ArtForz, how goes the custom chips for hashing?
1445 2011-02-12 10:36:55 <cosurgi> ArtForz: in other box it works - maybe because the third card in other box is a different one: 5830.
1446 2011-02-12 10:36:55 <lfm> current gpg and pgp still support rsa as an option
1447 2011-02-12 10:37:49 <lfm> cosurgi: try two hour yesy?
1448 2011-02-12 10:37:54 <lfm> test
1449 2011-02-12 10:52:17 noagendamarket has joined
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1451 2011-02-12 11:06:41 sgornick has joined
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1453 2011-02-12 11:25:31 <cosurgi> ArtForz: is it possible to monitor power consumption of each GPU ? This one GPU is connected to 4x(4pin)HDD power connectors, not to 2x(6pin)PCIe power connnectors. Maybe that's the reason?
1454 2011-02-12 11:26:21 Vladimir__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1455 2011-02-12 11:27:25 <lfm> should be ok, thry on separate cables and all?thats spozed to work
1456 2011-02-12 11:28:24 <cosurgi> ArtForz: in the end I bought corsair tx750W, I hope I won't regret that.
1457 2011-02-12 11:28:42 <cosurgi> yeah, I will try switching cables and slots.
1458 2011-02-12 11:29:19 <cosurgi> problem is that I can't today (and probably not tomorrow) :) I must set it up remotely to work as good as I can. I'll be there on monday for sure.
1459 2011-02-12 11:29:53 <lfm> good luck then
1460 2011-02-12 11:32:29 <cosurgi> CORSAIR CMPSU-750TXEU 750W
1461 2011-02-12 11:33:46 <cosurgi> three 5870.
1462 2011-02-12 11:37:50 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: we call those 4x pin power connectors, the white ones, Molex
1463 2011-02-12 11:37:58 <Diablo-D3> although, they're ALL made by Molex
1464 2011-02-12 11:41:11 <lfm> do they document what cables are on what rails and stuff so you can balance the loads?
1465 2011-02-12 11:41:21 <Diablo-D3> Molex, floppy (although some PSUs dont even ship with one anymore), ATX, the P4 plug, the opposite keyed AMD one that isnt used anymore, the 8 pin P4 plug, and the 4, 6, and 8 pin pcie plugs (and you never see the 4 pin ones) are all Molex
1466 2011-02-12 11:41:33 <Diablo-D3> lfm: I think thats a single rail psu
1467 2011-02-12 11:41:50 <lfm> o ok
1468 2011-02-12 11:43:21 <Diablo-D3> and on multi rail psus, its usually the first 1 or 2 rails are atx + p4, then each pci-e plug or two is a rail, and then the 5v and 3.3v DC->DC converters are either on the ATX+P4 rails or on their own
1469 2011-02-12 11:44:28 <Diablo-D3> and the molex/sata trees either have their own rails, or are equally distributed across the rails pci-e is on
1470 2011-02-12 11:44:43 <Diablo-D3> or are on the atx+p4 rails
1471 2011-02-12 11:44:52 <Diablo-D3> so basically, multi-rail psus all suck
1472 2011-02-12 11:44:58 <Diablo-D3> all of them
1473 2011-02-12 11:45:23 <lfm> hehe ok
1474 2011-02-12 11:46:33 <Diablo-D3> and theres probably configurations other than that
1475 2011-02-12 11:46:37 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I wanted to say molex, but wasn't sure if you know this name :)
1476 2011-02-12 11:46:51 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: seeing as molex invented all plugs ever
1477 2011-02-12 11:47:01 <Diablo-D3> they even invented all of edison's shit
1478 2011-02-12 11:47:04 <Diablo-D3> and the wheel
1479 2011-02-12 11:47:16 <cosurgi> :)
1480 2011-02-12 11:49:23 akem has joined
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1482 2011-02-12 11:49:23 akem has joined
1483 2011-02-12 11:51:53 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1484 2011-02-12 11:52:10 molecular has joined
1485 2011-02-12 11:59:09 <lfm> its fun to say molex?
1486 2011-02-12 12:01:52 <DjeZAeL> molex ? the french society which have made a type of connector for pc ?
1487 2011-02-12 12:02:52 <lfm> those french, thy're gonna take over the world
1488 2011-02-12 12:05:29 Raulo has joined
1489 2011-02-12 12:07:03 <Diablo-D3> lfm: I doubt it
1490 2011-02-12 12:07:06 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1491 2011-02-12 12:07:54 Tritonio has joined
1492 2011-02-12 12:08:11 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1493 2011-02-12 12:09:14 <MartianW> lfm, they can't take over the world. Soon French will be a dead language.
1494 2011-02-12 12:10:48 <Diablo-D3> The French language is an estoric society
1495 2011-02-12 12:11:11 <Diablo-D3> *esoteric
1496 2011-02-12 12:11:51 Xunie has joined
1497 2011-02-12 12:11:51 Xunie has quit (Changing host)
1498 2011-02-12 12:11:51 Xunie has joined
1499 2011-02-12 12:13:44 <Diablo-D3> alright, going to bed
1500 2011-02-12 12:13:45 <Diablo-D3> night all
1501 2011-02-12 12:14:17 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1502 2011-02-12 12:15:37 Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1503 2011-02-12 12:15:37 <lfm> bye
1504 2011-02-12 12:17:43 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1513 2011-02-12 12:41:45 <cosurgi> ok, I think it's PSU, when clocked @620, the fan stays 100%. I will need to connect to different power plugs. Maybe they are from the same ribbon.
1514 2011-02-12 12:41:56 <cosurgi> .. right now.
1515 2011-02-12 12:45:40 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
1516 2011-02-12 12:52:06 <xelister> Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
1517 2011-02-12 12:52:10 <xelister> slush pool is dead?
1518 2011-02-12 12:52:45 <cosurgi> works for me
1519 2011-02-12 12:52:47 <cosurgi> #soa1
1520 2011-02-12 12:53:16 <cosurgi> hmm.. in english that would be #saa1 - standard administrator's answer, no. 1
1521 2011-02-12 12:54:22 <xelister> miner can't connect to server for slush pool
1522 2011-02-12 12:54:42 <xelister> web page does work though
1523 2011-02-12 12:54:52 <xelister> cosurgi: are you sure, you have now running miner connected to slush?
1524 2011-02-12 12:54:57 <cosurgi> do you have 2% dontation?
1525 2011-02-12 12:55:00 <cosurgi> sure
1526 2011-02-12 12:55:38 <cosurgi> he said he will cut off everyone who isn't donating. slashdot effect - hosting bandwidth problems.
1527 2011-02-12 12:56:13 <xelister> "Tomorrow, on Saturday 12:00 UTC, I set up required donations and restart application. After this modification, worker logins from accounts without donations will be disabled and attempt to use them in miners will lead to info"
1528 2011-02-12 12:56:16 <xelister> fuck
1529 2011-02-12 12:56:26 <xelister> half day mining gone into /dev/null how awesome
1530 2011-02-12 12:56:31 <xelister> %^&*()!
1531 2011-02-12 12:56:52 <cosurgi> but miner was displaying info error=".....blargh blargh...."
1532 2011-02-12 12:56:58 <cosurgi> I've seen massages in terminal.
1533 2011-02-12 12:57:13 <cosurgi> you have some out of date miner, that doesn't show messages from pool
1534 2011-02-12 12:57:36 <xelister> yeah but miner misses AI to automatically understand the message, go to web page, make a decissions about setting donation or switching miner
1535 2011-02-12 12:57:46 <xelister> *switching pool
1536 2011-02-12 12:58:14 <xelister> I was totally asleep with diablo's sister when this happened :}
1537 2011-02-12 12:58:46 <molecular> xelister, you switch to bitpenny, which currently takes 10%?
1538 2011-02-12 12:58:52 <xelister> ha
1539 2011-02-12 12:59:02 <xelister> perhaps I should setup own pool that takes 0.5%
1540 2011-02-12 12:59:12 <cosurgi> bitpenny has to take 10%, because it can be chated for 28%
1541 2011-02-12 12:59:19 <molecular> you you wont. 0.5% is not a lot
1542 2011-02-12 12:59:21 <cosurgi> *cheated
1543 2011-02-12 12:59:24 <molecular> *maybe you wont
1544 2011-02-12 12:59:27 <xelister> where from the number 28% cames from
1545 2011-02-12 12:59:30 <rasengan> hi xelister, i love the software you made... but i had a question about it - how do you setup automatic payment systems with bitcoin
1546 2011-02-12 12:59:33 <cosurgi> rtff
1547 2011-02-12 13:00:05 <xelister> rasengan: hi, what software? my small miner modyfication is not public.. did you meny slush or onefixt? they are owners of the 2 pools now working
1548 2011-02-12 13:00:09 <Raulo> Bit painy cannot be cheated for personal gain
1549 2011-02-12 13:00:16 <rasengan> oo
1550 2011-02-12 13:00:21 <Raulo> Bitpenny*
1551 2011-02-12 13:00:22 <cosurgi> Raulo: oh, why?
1552 2011-02-12 13:00:38 <Raulo> But can be spoiled but not sending winning hashes
1553 2011-02-12 13:00:50 <molecular> Raulo, are you the author of "optimal pool abuse strategy"?
1554 2011-02-12 13:01:19 albertid has joined
1555 2011-02-12 13:01:54 <cosurgi> Raulo: is that because the total haspower of bitpenny is unknown?
1556 2011-02-12 13:02:24 <molecular> Raulo, equation (5) has a mistake, should be lambda/(lambda+x), not y.
1557 2011-02-12 13:05:06 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1558 2011-02-12 13:06:51 <OneFixt> Just wanted to say that while BitPenny is down for the upgrade, I can allow people to mine on the old server if they give me their IPs.
1559 2011-02-12 13:07:29 <OneFixt> If anyone's interested, please post yours in #bitcoin-bitpenny or in a private query.
1560 2011-02-12 13:11:44 <MartianW> Bitpenny?
1561 2011-02-12 13:12:05 <OneFixt> instant-payout mining pool
1562 2011-02-12 13:15:48 Raulo has joined
1563 2011-02-12 13:17:17 <Raulo> cosurgi: bitpenny pool cannot be cheated because it has constant payoff per share
1564 2011-02-12 13:18:00 <Raulo> slush's pool can be cheated because it's not and you can contribute more to rounds that have hight payoff and less to those that have a small one
1565 2011-02-12 13:18:34 <Raulo> molecular: of course in Eq. (5) it should be x
1566 2011-02-12 13:23:11 <molecular> Raulo, just saying...
1567 2011-02-12 13:25:22 RazielZ has joined
1568 2011-02-12 13:27:38 <Raulo> Actually, if you are large enough (say ArtForz) you can cheat on bitpenny for personal gain (and make OneFixt bankrupt)
1569 2011-02-12 13:27:58 <Raulo> Don't send winning hashes but collect nonwining shares
1570 2011-02-12 13:27:59 <OneFixt> Raulo: in what way?
1571 2011-02-12 13:28:10 <OneFixt> where's the personal gain?
1572 2011-02-12 13:28:17 <Raulo> Difficulty lowers
1573 2011-02-12 13:28:29 <Raulo> Next round (or does not increase that much)
1574 2011-02-12 13:28:43 <Raulo> If you control 20% of the network, it is quite a lot
1575 2011-02-12 13:29:14 <OneFixt> True, though the likelihood of this will decrease with time
1576 2011-02-12 13:30:01 <Raulo> Yep, but some people can not submit the winning hashes from pure malice
1577 2011-02-12 13:31:19 <OneFixt> For now the bitcoin community is largely cooperative, but if need be I will implement security measures, and as a last resort, there can be an invitation-only web of trust
1578 2011-02-12 13:34:45 Hackbat has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1579 2011-02-12 13:39:23 <omglolbbq> you either control the network or you don't, you dont control a certain % of the network
1580 2011-02-12 13:39:47 <OneFixt> sure you do, you control a % of the hashing power
1581 2011-02-12 13:40:46 <OneFixt> if you control the network (50% > hashing power) then you don't need to be cheating pools
1582 2011-02-12 13:41:07 <OneFixt> you need to be cheating exchanges at that point
1583 2011-02-12 13:42:08 Cusipzzz has joined
1584 2011-02-12 13:42:29 * OneFixt is away
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1590 2011-02-12 14:03:55 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
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1595 2011-02-12 14:10:52 <TD_> hmm, strange. my client is being very slow connecting to the network
1596 2011-02-12 14:11:43 <TD_> ah there we go
1597 2011-02-12 14:13:20 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1599 2011-02-12 14:14:59 <RBecker> lower frames == higher hash rate right?
1600 2011-02-12 14:15:07 <RBecker> in the gpu miner
1601 2011-02-12 14:15:36 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48867
1602 2011-02-12 14:15:37 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48867 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes, and 58 seconds
1603 2011-02-12 14:17:05 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 49947
1604 2011-02-12 14:17:06 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 49947 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 59 minutes, and 30 seconds
1605 2011-02-12 14:22:52 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 46568
1606 2011-02-12 14:22:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46568 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 6 days, 18 hours, 3 minutes, and 4 seconds
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1611 2011-02-12 14:26:00 <davex__> ;;bc,estimate
1612 2011-02-12 14:26:00 <gribble> 33053.97857406
1613 2011-02-12 14:26:37 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
1614 2011-02-12 14:26:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107651 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1212 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 15 hours, 14 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33053.97857406
1615 2011-02-12 14:27:53 <molecular> hmm, has the minimum trade amount always been 10 on mtgox?
1616 2011-02-12 14:35:35 <rlifchitz> i don't think so
1617 2011-02-12 14:35:51 <rlifchitz> i think there were no minimum a few months ago
1618 2011-02-12 14:43:20 <molecular> hrm. was going to move the price down a bit ;) but for 10btc.. no I wont
1619 2011-02-12 14:43:32 <rasengan> if you just leave the program running you make money?
1620 2011-02-12 14:43:44 <molecular> if you consider bitcoin money: yes
1621 2011-02-12 14:43:54 <molecular> you have to turn on "generate coins"
1622 2011-02-12 14:44:32 <molecular> and wait for a very long time or join a pool
1623 2011-02-12 14:47:28 <necrodearia> http://meta.witcoin.com/p/109/category-beta-testing
1624 2011-02-12 14:48:53 <necrodearia> more votes needed
1625 2011-02-12 14:49:16 <necrodearia> If you do not have any witcoins, come to #witcoin and we will offer some to you.
1626 2011-02-12 14:49:17 <gwillen> rasengan: if you do not have much computing power, the amount of money you will make is minimal to none
1627 2011-02-12 14:49:38 <gwillen> rasengan: also if you are using CPU to compute, you will make less than the cost of electricity
1628 2011-02-12 14:51:15 <rasengan> oh
1629 2011-02-12 14:51:29 <rasengan> bitcon isnt money?
1630 2011-02-12 14:51:30 <rasengan> o_O
1631 2011-02-12 14:52:53 <necrodearia> Hmmm, perhaps I can pay some users to come to the chan and claim the witcoins I offered as yet another payment? two free monies?
1632 2011-02-12 14:54:15 <necrodearia> okay, okay, I get it...
1633 2011-02-12 14:54:37 <necrodearia> I will charge for the first ten visitors to the channel. Hurry, limited time offer!
1634 2011-02-12 14:54:39 <molecular> rasengan: most would say bitcoin is money. I liken it more to gold.
1635 2011-02-12 14:55:15 <molecular> necrodearia, what channel? #witcoin?
1636 2011-02-12 14:55:21 * necrodearia agrees noddingly
1637 2011-02-12 14:55:42 <necrodearia> You can hop the channel and then you will quality for the charge ^_^
1638 2011-02-12 14:55:49 <necrodearia> qualify*
1639 2011-02-12 14:56:03 <molecular> nah, I'll leave that to others. already received 2 witcoins
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1645 2011-02-12 15:12:02 skeledrew has joined
1646 2011-02-12 15:13:18 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
1647 2011-02-12 15:13:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107654 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1209 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33071.03126997
1648 2011-02-12 15:15:26 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
1649 2011-02-12 15:17:45 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
1650 2011-02-12 15:25:30 TD_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1651 2011-02-12 15:26:25 genjix has joined
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1654 2011-02-12 15:34:59 <Vladimir___> what's with API's inability to send 0.01 BTC ?
1655 2011-02-12 15:39:15 <soultcer> Maybe it has to do with the fee for < 0.01 BTC transactions?
1656 2011-02-12 15:41:01 <Vladimir___> maybe
1657 2011-02-12 15:41:23 <Vladimir___> basically bitcoind getbalance gives me 0.010000
1658 2011-02-12 15:41:50 <Vladimir___> trying to transfer 0.01 and and it fails
1659 2011-02-12 15:42:17 <Vladimir___> fees are set up to be paid in amount of 0
1660 2011-02-12 15:43:11 <Vladimir___> it's a bug, is it not, welcome to pleasures of using floating point for storing money
1661 2011-02-12 15:44:39 <Cusipzzz> it's a bug
1662 2011-02-12 15:45:12 <Vladimir___> do devs know about it?
1663 2011-02-12 15:45:19 <Cusipzzz> yes, there are many threads on it.
1664 2011-02-12 15:45:48 <Vladimir___> ok than, I'll let them to deal with this mess
1665 2011-02-12 15:46:05 <Vladimir___> thanks for confirming
1666 2011-02-12 15:46:53 <Necr0s> I transferred 0.01 successfully.
1667 2011-02-12 15:47:14 <Necr0s> Via the GUI though, not by API.
1668 2011-02-12 15:47:57 <luke-jr> Vladimir___: it's possible your transaction requires a fee because of its size
1669 2011-02-12 15:47:59 <Vladimir___> read my description of the bug, you probably have not recreated it correctly... i.e. you might have more than 0.01 in your wallet,
1670 2011-02-12 15:48:10 <luke-jr> unless you have a single 0.01 BTC coin
1671 2011-02-12 15:48:23 <Cusipzzz> in before Tonal :P
1672 2011-02-12 15:48:28 <Necr0s> hm. I was the sender, not the receiver.
1673 2011-02-12 15:48:47 <Vladimir___> My guess is that there is actually less than 0.01 in the wallet, but API rounds it up to 0.01 in getbalance/getinfo calls
1674 2011-02-12 15:48:48 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: ?
1675 2011-02-12 15:48:52 <Necr0s> And my wallet went from 0.45 to 0.44 as expected.
1676 2011-02-12 15:49:11 <luke-jr> Vladimir___: there could be 100x 0.01 BTC coins
1677 2011-02-12 15:49:19 cosurgi has joined
1678 2011-02-12 15:49:31 <luke-jr> Vladimir___: if you have 100 coins for input, there is a fee regardless of overall amount
1679 2011-02-12 15:49:44 <cosurgi> fuck. I'm the admin, and my user killed my box.
1680 2011-02-12 15:49:56 <Vladimir___> no it basically block reward, 50 + some fees, 50 got transferred out, 0.01(or whatever it is left)
1681 2011-02-12 15:49:57 <cosurgi> i'll kill him.
1682 2011-02-12 15:50:18 <Necr0s> User requires percussive maintenence.
1683 2011-02-12 15:50:36 <cosurgi> do you guys know some tool that enables memory quoate?
1684 2011-02-12 15:50:39 <luke-jr> Vladimir___: weird
1685 2011-02-12 15:50:52 <Vladimir___> yep
1686 2011-02-12 15:50:58 <cosurgi> I can even compile that into kernel, no matter, I just need memory quoate for this guy.
1687 2011-02-12 15:51:05 <cosurgi> *quota
1688 2011-02-12 15:52:06 <Necr0s> Can't say that I do offhand. Is this linux? I might have a look around in /proc/sys to see if anything can be adjusted there.
1689 2011-02-12 15:53:19 <necrodearia> Is http://www.bitcoin.org/favicon.ico available in a larger size?
1690 2011-02-12 15:53:43 <cosurgi> Linux atak 2.6.29-toi-3.2rc2-lzo-y #2 SMP Wed Dec 22 16:53:26 CET 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
1691 2011-02-12 15:54:19 <Necr0s> necrodeari: The MacOS X bitcoin client contains a rendering of that graphic at a higher resolution.
1692 2011-02-12 15:54:26 <Necr0s> For it's application icon.
1693 2011-02-12 15:56:02 <necrodearia> Otherwise https://en.bitcoin.it/img/bc_logo_135.png
1694 2011-02-12 15:59:23 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
1695 2011-02-12 15:59:55 dukeleto has joined
1696 2011-02-12 16:03:38 <luke-jr> seriously, why are all these Decimal bitcoin users discussing all this moving the decimal point?
1697 2011-02-12 16:03:54 <luke-jr> have they never heard of their own μBTC and mBTC?
1698 2011-02-12 16:05:12 <Cusipzzz> just to piss you off ?
1699 2011-02-12 16:05:42 Vladimir___ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1700 2011-02-12 16:08:18 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1701 2011-02-12 16:09:27 <edcba> μBTC (nano-bitcoin; 0.000001 BTC).
1702 2011-02-12 16:09:34 <edcba> ppl doesn't know SI...
1703 2011-02-12 16:09:42 <edcba> or greck
1704 2011-02-12 16:10:57 <edcba> users are desperatingly dumb
1705 2011-02-12 16:11:04 <luke-jr> XD
1706 2011-02-12 16:11:07 <edcba> didn't read the post carefully
1707 2011-02-12 16:11:40 <edcba> complaining about not having unit for 0.0001 BTC
1708 2011-02-12 16:12:37 <luke-jr> ah well, that is one of the problems with decimal/SI I suppose
1709 2011-02-12 16:12:50 <luke-jr> too few divisions before you have to start jumping multiple digits
1710 2011-02-12 16:13:33 <luke-jr> 0.0001 TBC would be simply a TBCáµ
1711 2011-02-12 16:13:42 <edcba> nobody needed 0.1 dollar unit...
1712 2011-02-12 16:14:01 <luke-jr> edcba: there is a 0.1 dollar unit
1713 2011-02-12 16:14:03 <luke-jr> it's called a dime
1714 2011-02-12 16:14:04 <edcba> you just call that 10 cents :)
1715 2011-02-12 16:14:08 <edcba> ok lol
1716 2011-02-12 16:14:10 <edcba> wtf
1717 2011-02-12 16:14:53 <edcba> anyway you still can call that some deci-dollar
1718 2011-02-12 16:15:11 <luke-jr> sure
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1720 2011-02-12 16:15:33 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1721 2011-02-12 16:16:10 <hacim> tonal
1722 2011-02-12 16:16:15 <edcba> and for non existing units you just take 10 miliBTC or whatever
1723 2011-02-12 16:16:17 <edcba> lol
1724 2011-02-12 16:16:24 <luke-jr> deci-bitcoin, centi-bitcoin, milli-bitcoin, milli-deci-bitcoin, milli-centi-bitcoin, micro-bitcoin
1725 2011-02-12 16:16:34 * edcba slaps hacim with a tonal trout
1726 2011-02-12 16:17:31 <molecular> tonal - a concept appearing in the belief systems and traditions of Mesoamerican cultures, involving a spiritual link between a person and an animal
1727 2011-02-12 16:18:23 <edcba> haha
1728 2011-02-12 16:21:43 <molecular> there will only ever be 1 sanbong 4 tonbong 6 mill 15 san and 4 ton bitcoins ?
1729 2011-02-12 16:21:46 ne0futur_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
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1732 2011-02-12 16:22:03 ne0futur has joined
1733 2011-02-12 16:22:22 <luke-jr> molecular: no
1734 2011-02-12 16:22:25 chris200x9 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1735 2011-02-12 16:22:31 <molecular> no?
1736 2011-02-12 16:23:37 <molecular> 21000000-16777216-4*1048576-6*4096-15*256-4*16 = 0
1737 2011-02-12 16:23:50 chris200x9 has joined
1738 2011-02-12 16:24:25 <luke-jr> About ra-tam, ra-mill su-san fy-ton bong, su-mill ko-san ra
1739 2011-02-12 16:24:45 <chris200x9> not in the header
1740 2011-02-12 16:24:45 <luke-jr> 7,75î§0,5907.4
1741 2011-02-12 16:25:37 * molecular is lost
1742 2011-02-12 16:25:49 <luke-jr> molecular: your conversion counted BTC
1743 2011-02-12 16:26:13 HarryS has joined
1744 2011-02-12 16:26:16 <luke-jr> which is based on a multiple of 100,000,000 units
1745 2011-02-12 16:26:16 <molecular> BTC != bitcoin ?
1746 2011-02-12 16:26:25 <luke-jr> BTC = decimal bitcoin
1747 2011-02-12 16:26:27 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1748 2011-02-12 16:27:03 <luke-jr> tonal bitcoins are based on a multiple of 1,0000 (65,536 decimal) units
1749 2011-02-12 16:27:52 <molecular> I read wikiedia on "tonal system"... it's just hex
1750 2011-02-12 16:28:05 <luke-jr> molecular: it's not just hex.
1751 2011-02-12 16:28:07 <molecular> no?
1752 2011-02-12 16:28:09 <luke-jr> Wikipedia has a summary.
1753 2011-02-12 16:28:13 <luke-jr> read the book :P
1754 2011-02-12 16:28:18 <luke-jr> http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/tonal-system/10991091
1755 2011-02-12 16:29:11 <edcba> bitcoin is not hex friendly since satoshi used 50 dec. in rewards...
1756 2011-02-12 16:29:48 <molecular> wait... "ra" = 7, "tam" = 2**32, right?
1757 2011-02-12 16:30:06 <luke-jr> edcba: it's just over 1,0000 TBC âº
1758 2011-02-12 16:30:27 <luke-jr> molecular: 16â8 is easier
1759 2011-02-12 16:30:38 <luke-jr> molecular: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin may be helpful
1760 2011-02-12 16:30:43 <luke-jr> and/or https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units
1761 2011-02-12 16:30:48 jettero_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
1762 2011-02-12 16:30:55 <molecular> allright, 16**8
1763 2011-02-12 16:31:32 <luke-jr> I'm leaving home now, so coverage will be spotty
1764 2011-02-12 16:31:41 Ljrn900 has joined
1765 2011-02-12 16:31:50 <molecular> as a child (about 10 yrs of age), I proposed to the local shop owner to put prices on products in binary cause that would be more efficient. well, he declined
1766 2011-02-12 16:32:11 <luke-jr> Ljrn900 = me
1767 2011-02-12 16:32:24 <luke-jr> molecular: that would make for long numbered prices
1768 2011-02-12 16:32:37 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1769 2011-02-12 16:32:44 <molecular> yeah
1770 2011-02-12 16:32:58 <molecular> i was ten, didn't think people might have a probelm with that
1771 2011-02-12 16:33:59 <molecular> I think the real world will stick with decimal for a very long time, but I'm off to read the book now, thanks for the link(s)
1772 2011-02-12 16:35:33 <molecular> what? the "international decimal association", I seem to have some huge knowledge gaps here
1773 2011-02-12 16:39:31 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1774 2011-02-12 16:40:16 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1780 2011-02-12 16:48:00 Ljrn900 has joined
1781 2011-02-12 16:48:09 <Ljrn900> "international decimal association" now known as SI
1782 2011-02-12 16:48:12 <Ljrn900> the book is older than hexadecimal and SI-the-system
1783 2011-02-12 16:56:27 altamic has joined
1784 2011-02-12 17:00:33 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1785 2011-02-12 17:05:16 malware has joined
1786 2011-02-12 17:05:43 <malware> why does AVG detect bitcoin as malware?
1787 2011-02-12 17:06:11 <edcba> because it sucks i guess
1788 2011-02-12 17:07:04 <edcba> or a wild guess is that since 90% of command & control worms use IRC, then IRC is evil logic
1789 2011-02-12 17:07:10 <edcba> aka symantec theory
1790 2011-02-12 17:08:33 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1791 2011-02-12 17:09:11 <malware> what has IRC got to do with bitcoin?
1792 2011-02-12 17:10:33 <edcba> bitcoin use irc to bootstrap
1793 2011-02-12 17:10:47 EvanR has joined
1794 2011-02-12 17:11:12 <edcba> (to get nodes to connect to)
1795 2011-02-12 17:11:41 <JFK911> I wrote a miner for Arduino, would anyone like to try it
1796 2011-02-12 17:12:19 Ljrn900 has joined
1797 2011-02-12 17:12:28 <malware> does anyone here have anything good to say about bitcoin?
1798 2011-02-12 17:13:14 <JFK911> I sure do
1799 2011-02-12 17:14:15 TD_ has joined
1800 2011-02-12 17:15:12 MartianW has joined
1801 2011-02-12 17:16:35 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
1802 2011-02-12 17:16:36 MartianW has joined
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1806 2011-02-12 17:30:00 <MartianW> Why did Satoshi choose 50 bitcoins a block?
1807 2011-02-12 17:30:17 <MartianW> It seems somewhat arbitrary.
1808 2011-02-12 17:30:22 <TD_> why not? there has to be some initial values for a currenct
1809 2011-02-12 17:30:34 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
1810 2011-02-12 17:30:34 TD_ is now known as TD
1811 2011-02-12 17:31:07 <MartianW> TD, but why not 1?
1812 2011-02-12 17:31:12 <MartianW> It seems the logical starting place.
1813 2011-02-12 17:31:22 genjix has joined
1814 2011-02-12 17:31:37 <TD> that would guarantee nearly all bitcoin values are very small floats
1815 2011-02-12 17:31:43 <TD> it's nice to be able to talk about something costing 5 bitcoins, etc
1816 2011-02-12 17:31:58 <TD> that's the same reason the limit is 21 million "bitcoins" where a bitcoin is subdivisible into nanocoins
1817 2011-02-12 17:32:13 <TD> the placement of the decimal point was arbitrary, and chosen merely for convenience and similarity to existing currencies
1818 2011-02-12 17:32:23 <genjix> suppp!!!
1819 2011-02-12 17:33:18 Tritonio has joined
1820 2011-02-12 17:33:21 <MartianW> genjix, that is a lot of p's and exclamation marks.
1821 2011-02-12 17:34:53 <genjix> sweet i turned caps from ctrl to esc and no vim is much easier to use
1822 2011-02-12 17:34:58 <genjix> now
1823 2011-02-12 17:35:55 sabalaba has joined
1824 2011-02-12 17:36:51 Raulo has joined
1825 2011-02-12 17:38:52 <sipa1024> ;;bc,mtgox
1826 2011-02-12 17:38:53 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.0899,"low":0.9311,"vol":10080,"buy":1.0153,"sell":1.0674,"last":1.017}}
1827 2011-02-12 17:39:27 <MartianW> Still $1.
1828 2011-02-12 17:40:13 <MartianW> If I were one of the gpu oligarchs I'd constantly be cashing out small amounts of bitcoins.
1829 2011-02-12 17:43:06 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1830 2011-02-12 17:44:30 <TD> MartianW: the biggest gpu miner (art forz in this chan) sells about 85% of his mined coins
1831 2011-02-12 17:45:03 <MartianW> That's a considerable amount of money.
1832 2011-02-12 17:45:22 <TD> well, it is _now_
1833 2011-02-12 17:45:28 <TD> for a long time bitcoins were not worth very much
1834 2011-02-12 17:45:41 <TD> in fact when i first discovered bitcoin, they were worth nothing at all, as there were no exchanges and nobody trading
1835 2011-02-12 17:45:47 <TD> indeed there wasn't even a web forum
1836 2011-02-12 17:45:53 <TD> wish i'd started mining back then and not stopped :)
1837 2011-02-12 17:46:04 <edcba> lol
1838 2011-02-12 17:46:22 <TD> probably one of the worst investment misdecisions i will ever make. oh well :)
1839 2011-02-12 17:46:34 <edcba> maybe in 2 years from now you wish you bought all possible bitcoins @ 1 USD :)
1840 2011-02-12 17:46:39 <TD> yeah, haha
1841 2011-02-12 17:46:48 <TD> well i am very much considering one of vlads contracts
1842 2011-02-12 17:47:06 <TD> if there's a market crash and the coins end up worthless [in the short term] no big deal. i am still supporting a great project.
1843 2011-02-12 17:47:19 <genjix> 100k bitcoins XD
1844 2011-02-12 17:47:24 <TD> and so far my own investment choices have been way better than my investment advisors have been
1845 2011-02-12 17:47:25 <genjix> everyone denies being rich
1846 2011-02-12 17:47:34 <genjix> but im sure theres a few here with 100k worth
1847 2011-02-12 17:47:44 <TD> i know one guy who successfully mined like 10,000 coins
1848 2011-02-12 17:47:46 <MartianW> genjix, there is one bitcoin address that has 400k in it.
1849 2011-02-12 17:47:49 <TD> back when you just needed cpus
1850 2011-02-12 17:47:53 <genjix> haha cool
1851 2011-02-12 17:47:57 <MartianW> Satoshi probably has a fortune.
1852 2011-02-12 17:48:02 <genjix> we need more rich hackers
1853 2011-02-12 17:48:07 <genjix> less rich suits
1854 2011-02-12 17:48:30 <genjix> i wish everybody here to be rich!
1855 2011-02-12 17:48:34 <MartianW> If bitcoin's really take off we'll all probably be able to retire.
1856 2011-02-12 17:48:39 <MartianW> *bitcoins
1857 2011-02-12 17:48:46 <genjix> not me... i only have 70 btc :p
1858 2011-02-12 17:48:59 <TD> that 400k address has to be one of the most valuable encryption keys around right now :-)
1859 2011-02-12 17:49:07 <MartianW> I have 50 in a separate wallet as an investment.
1860 2011-02-12 17:49:20 <MartianW> But if bitcoins take off it'll be worth at least a few thousand dollars.
1861 2011-02-12 17:49:46 <MartianW> TD, let's start a distributed computing project to crack it and share the funds like pooled miners.
1862 2011-02-12 17:49:47 <genjix> that's a bit of a stretch
1863 2011-02-12 17:50:36 <MartianW> genjix, I meant really take off as amazon/ebay accepts it.
1864 2011-02-12 17:50:42 <genjix> ic
1865 2011-02-12 17:50:47 <TD> that's a long way off
1866 2011-02-12 17:50:55 <TD> though bitcoin continues to move faster than i expected
1867 2011-02-12 17:51:00 <TD> so maybe i should just shut up
1868 2011-02-12 17:51:25 <MartianW> I was amazed that it had spiked at 0.40 when Mt. Gox stopped the cashing out in dollars.
1869 2011-02-12 17:52:12 <genjix> man i love code
1870 2011-02-12 17:52:14 <genjix> :)
1871 2011-02-12 17:53:18 <TD> frankly
1872 2011-02-12 17:53:26 <TD> i suspect a lot of the current trading volume is coming from bad guys
1873 2011-02-12 17:53:56 <genjix> tyvm bad guys
1874 2011-02-12 17:53:58 <TD> i'm willing to bet 10 BTC that within 6 months we'll discover that people are selling accounts and CC lists on dodgy web forums for bitcoins
1875 2011-02-12 17:54:21 <TD> there aren't many non-reversible currencies out there. with the lockdown on liberty reserve, i think only webmoney is left?
1876 2011-02-12 17:54:44 <TD> russians love webmoney in particular for trading stuff dumps and bulk created accounts
1877 2011-02-12 17:54:51 <TD> because they can't trust their customers so CC transactions are out
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1881 2011-02-12 17:55:02 <Ljrn900> ...
1882 2011-02-12 17:55:27 <TD> but the existing currencies they use are all run by corps who set up shop in exotic locales. apparently the US Gov is getting more serious about cracking down on them.
1883 2011-02-12 17:55:32 <TD> so -> they will migrate to using bitcoin
1884 2011-02-12 17:58:59 <JFK911> liberty reserve is locked?
1885 2011-02-12 17:59:20 <JFK911> third world banks are offering cards reloadable with LR
1886 2011-02-12 17:59:39 <JFK911> it seems to be the same kind of hassle as getting value out of WM
1887 2011-02-12 17:59:45 <pierre`> does someone already have this error : "bitcoin: main.cpp:1808: bool LoadBlockIndex(bool): Assertion `block.hashMerkleRoot == uint256("0x4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b")' failed." ? (bitcoin-0.3.19 on PS3, with the removal of -DFOURWAYSSE2, -march=amdfam10 and -msse2 in makefile.unix)
1888 2011-02-12 18:00:30 <MartianW> pierre`, I'm not the most knowledgeable, but it sounds like your blockchain downloaded is corrupt.
1889 2011-02-12 18:00:40 <TD> JFK911: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3176.0
1890 2011-02-12 18:01:11 <pierre`> MartianW: this appears when i start bitcoin for the first time
1891 2011-02-12 18:01:25 <TD> specifically
1892 2011-02-12 18:01:25 <TD> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/22354
1893 2011-02-12 18:01:41 <JFK911> Okay, well I wasn't planning on using LR as a bank account anyway. :)
1894 2011-02-12 18:01:47 <MartianW> pierre`, before it even starts to download any blocks?
1895 2011-02-12 18:02:36 <pierre`> ps3% rm -rf ~/.bitcoin ; time ./bin/bitcoin
1896 2011-02-12 18:02:36 <pierre`> bitcoin: main.cpp:1808: bool LoadBlockIndex(bool): Assertion `block.hashMerkleRoot == uint256("0x4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b")' failed.
1897 2011-02-12 18:02:42 <pierre`> zsh: abort ./bin/bitcoin
1898 2011-02-12 18:02:42 <pierre`> ./bin/bitcoin 0.07s user 0.08s system 10% cpu 1.477 total
1899 2011-02-12 18:03:31 <pierre`> i will tcpdump to check
1900 2011-02-12 18:03:49 <JFK911> TD: Oh, it's a plug for offshorecashier.com.
1901 2011-02-12 18:03:59 <TD> yeah
1902 2011-02-12 18:04:08 <TD> the point is that LR is getting less useful for anonymous payments
1903 2011-02-12 18:04:14 <TD> mostly these guys seem to use webmoney anyway
1904 2011-02-12 18:04:22 <TD> probably they will stick with it for a while
1905 2011-02-12 18:04:31 <pierre`> MartianW: i don't have traffic on eth0
1906 2011-02-12 18:04:37 <TD> if the pressure falls on webmoney (and it likely will) expect to see a migration to bitcoin
1907 2011-02-12 18:04:37 <JFK911> as long as btc can be converted to real value like wm i think it will have the same attraction
1908 2011-02-12 18:04:41 <TD> indeed
1909 2011-02-12 18:04:42 <TD> http://forum.antichat.ru/thread248692-bitcoin.html
1910 2011-02-12 18:04:53 <TD> there's a russian hacker forum discussion of it. they don't seem especially impressed :-)
1911 2011-02-12 18:04:56 <TD> it's "utopian" apparently
1912 2011-02-12 18:05:02 Bth8 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1913 2011-02-12 18:05:20 <JFK911> if you are simply mining, there's nothing to worry about. whether btc are funding sex slaves, drug sales, atm card stripe dumps, child porn, hookers, i don't care as i'm not participating in any of those things.
1914 2011-02-12 18:05:27 <JFK911> plenty of crooks are using LR already
1915 2011-02-12 18:05:40 <JFK911> look @ any carding or botnet operator forum
1916 2011-02-12 18:06:12 <TD> yes, exactly. i'm just saying it'll come to us soon
1917 2011-02-12 18:06:32 <JFK911> Well, if it hasn't already, then, what is driving the value of btc on the mtgox exchange?
1918 2011-02-12 18:07:31 <TD> good question. probably an exodus from LR of people who "require anonymity", but hopefully not.
1919 2011-02-12 18:07:39 <MartianW> pierre`, then I do not know.
1920 2011-02-12 18:07:56 <JFK911> The only way I see to get cash out of btc right now is via LR.
1921 2011-02-12 18:08:09 <JFK911> Altho I haven't done any research about doing that.
1922 2011-02-12 18:08:28 <MartianW> JFK911, there are some other, limited, options.
1923 2011-02-12 18:08:33 nik62591 has quit (Changing host)
1924 2011-02-12 18:08:33 nik62591 has joined
1925 2011-02-12 18:08:46 <MartianW> Though If I were laundering money through bitcoin I'd purchase goods and resell them.
1926 2011-02-12 18:09:04 <MartianW> To get cash out.
1927 2011-02-12 18:09:21 <JFK911> If we ever see someone moving truckloads of alpaca socks on eBay, then we know what's going on.
1928 2011-02-12 18:09:42 <MartianW> Hehe.
1929 2011-02-12 18:09:49 <TD> haha. people seemed to like that one on slashdot didn't they
1930 2011-02-12 18:09:52 <MartianW> I should start selling something.
1931 2011-02-12 18:10:13 <JFK911> Yes also slashdot didnt really affect the exchange much
1932 2011-02-12 18:10:38 <TD> nah, it's not _that_ big a site
1933 2011-02-12 18:11:21 <MartianW> Slashdot usually brings a ton of traffic, but not with a very long attention span.\
1934 2011-02-12 18:11:40 <MartianW> The real effect comes from the attention bloggers pay to the slashdotted topics after the main event is over.
1935 2011-02-12 18:11:43 <MartianW> Or so I read.
1936 2011-02-12 18:11:50 <TD> well
1937 2011-02-12 18:12:06 <TD> i'd say the real impact is that of the many who read and visit, some will start to get involved and become a valued member of the community
1938 2011-02-12 18:12:11 <TD> it might happen months later though
1939 2011-02-12 18:12:19 <TD> it's hard to judge these things in terms of raw traffic
1940 2011-02-12 18:12:57 <MartianW> Interesting. Bitcoin is search by far the most often by Russians.
1941 2011-02-12 18:13:04 <MartianW> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin
1942 2011-02-12 18:14:25 <TD> hmm
1943 2011-02-12 18:14:26 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1944 2011-02-12 18:14:30 <TD> not a good sign ....
1945 2011-02-12 18:15:06 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1946 2011-02-12 18:15:21 <ArtForz> lol @ LR FUD
1947 2011-02-12 18:15:30 <TD> MartianW: that is very interesting though
1948 2011-02-12 18:15:31 MrCoin has joined
1949 2011-02-12 18:16:14 <MartianW> TD, I wonder how illegal activity would register on the block chain.
1950 2011-02-12 18:16:25 <TD> it would look the same as legal activity of course
1951 2011-02-12 18:16:28 <TD> why would it be any different?
1952 2011-02-12 18:16:30 <MartianW> I doubt it.
1953 2011-02-12 18:16:37 <MartianW> Legal activity would be a lot smaller.
1954 2011-02-12 18:16:43 <newsham> i heard usd is being used to fund sex slaves, drug sales, atm card stripe dumps, child poorn and hookers. :(
1955 2011-02-12 18:16:57 <ArtForz> especially funny coming from a competitor requiring govt ID if you move > $1k/month
1956 2011-02-12 18:17:01 <newsham> (and thats just in nkorea!)
1957 2011-02-12 18:19:55 <TD> newsham: hehe
1958 2011-02-12 18:20:02 pushrim has joined
1959 2011-02-12 18:20:04 <pushrim> hi
1960 2011-02-12 18:20:16 <TD> ArtForz: you mean the post from madhatter or the usenet discussion
1961 2011-02-12 18:20:27 <ArtForz> usenet discussion
1962 2011-02-12 18:20:39 <pushrim> newbee here need sm help
1963 2011-02-12 18:22:05 prax has joined
1964 2011-02-12 18:22:25 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1965 2011-02-12 18:22:35 <TD> which part is fud? it's not true that LR is starting to enforce ID rules more ?
1966 2011-02-12 18:23:18 pushrim has quit (Client Quit)
1967 2011-02-12 18:23:21 <ArtForz> erm, so?
1968 2011-02-12 18:24:12 <TD> oh, i don't care at all. i'm just wondering if the hatters theory that this change is driving the sudden rise in prices for bitcoins.
1969 2011-02-12 18:24:27 <TD> i don't use liberty reserve or any of their competitors <shrug>
1970 2011-02-12 18:24:27 <ArtForz> possible, but imo unlikely
1971 2011-02-12 18:25:27 <ArtForz> I do, with zero problems so far
1972 2011-02-12 18:25:34 <newsham> more people interested in mining, more people trying to get in on the $/btc bubble
1973 2011-02-12 18:25:40 <TD> presumably it's only an issue if you lie about your identity
1974 2011-02-12 18:26:03 <ArtForz> which isn't an issue for me
1975 2011-02-12 18:26:05 <TD> newsham: yes it's possible it's also a speculative bubble amongst the current community rather than an influx of some new people.
1976 2011-02-12 18:26:07 <TD> yeah
1977 2011-02-12 18:26:20 <newsham> more http://www.bitcoinsextoys.com/ customers
1978 2011-02-12 18:26:34 <newsham> td: i think a speculative bubble draws more into the community
1979 2011-02-12 18:26:57 <ArtForz> I run my mining as a official business, so *shrug*
1980 2011-02-12 18:27:26 <MartianW> ArtForz, what do you call income from mining on the tax forms?
1981 2011-02-12 18:27:30 <TD> you have a full/part time job as well, or are you the first bitcoin professional ?
1982 2011-02-12 18:27:45 <ArtForz> full time job, EE
1983 2011-02-12 18:27:55 <newsham> engineers enginearn
1984 2011-02-12 18:28:50 <ArtForz> I'd have to ask my tax guy
1985 2011-02-12 18:31:35 <genjix> i think it is a bubble too
1986 2011-02-12 18:31:38 <genjix> small community
1987 2011-02-12 18:31:41 <genjix> not much services
1988 2011-02-12 18:31:53 <genjix> everyone using bitcoin primarily as a speculation vehicle
1989 2011-02-12 18:33:40 <TD> there will probably be multiple bubbles on the way up. but in the long run it seems that bitcoin is gaining enough critical mass that it has a chance of becoming really big. or at least a lot bigger than it is now.
1990 2011-02-12 18:33:46 <newsham> services sems to be growing rapidly though.
1991 2011-02-12 18:34:03 <newsham> at least the list on the wiki has gotten quite a bit longer since i first looked about 2mos ago
1992 2011-02-12 18:34:22 <newsham> even if it is quite a small list still
1993 2011-02-12 18:34:40 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1994 2011-02-12 18:35:02 bk128 has joined
1995 2011-02-12 18:35:43 MrCoin has joined
1996 2011-02-12 18:38:21 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1997 2011-02-12 18:38:27 larsivi has joined
1998 2011-02-12 18:38:28 jdankanyin has joined
1999 2011-02-12 18:38:39 <citiz3n> ;;bc,mtgox
2000 2011-02-12 18:38:42 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.0899,"low":0.9311,"vol":7233,"buy":1.02,"sell":1.05,"last":1.0103}}
2001 2011-02-12 18:39:08 <jdankanyin> hey all whats going on
2002 2011-02-12 18:41:04 <citiz3n> not too much
2003 2011-02-12 18:41:57 <jdankanyin> weekend slow in here or no one is awake yet
2004 2011-02-12 18:42:01 bk128 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2005 2011-02-12 18:42:19 <Cusipzzz> sleeping mainly
2006 2011-02-12 18:45:05 <jdankanyin> hey does anyone know if this works with old radeon cards like 7 series i was thinking taking my extra computer and take my 6 graphic cards into it and have them run but the old radeon cards are like from 3 years ago
2007 2011-02-12 18:45:49 <citiz3n> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
2008 2011-02-12 18:45:56 <jdankanyin> thx
2009 2011-02-12 18:46:17 <TD> hmm
2010 2011-02-12 18:46:42 <TD> it looks like slush is now making up maybe a third of the network
2011 2011-02-12 18:47:00 <TD> just from eyeballing the block sequence numbers the pool is winning
2012 2011-02-12 18:47:06 <TD> it'd be good to have some more diversity in this ....
2013 2011-02-12 18:47:06 <Raulo> TD: 1/5
2014 2011-02-12 18:47:22 <ArtForz> yup, about 20%
2015 2011-02-12 18:47:22 <Raulo> The bitcoin universe is currently about 250 GH/s
2016 2011-02-12 18:47:43 <newsham> TD: bitcoin has a few large central bankers :)
2017 2011-02-12 18:47:58 <newsham> sorta like the oecd
2018 2011-02-12 18:48:04 <MartianW> So long as no one has a majority.
2019 2011-02-12 18:48:14 <Raulo> By the way. According to my back-on-the envolope calculations the bitcoin universe is about 1/3 computational power of the Top1 supercomputer
2020 2011-02-12 18:48:25 <Raulo> Or about 1/5 of Folding@Home
2021 2011-02-12 18:48:59 <ArtForz> roughly, yea
2022 2011-02-12 18:49:02 <newsham> if only there was an ecurrency whose block structure was guaranteed by useful work like gene folding
2023 2011-02-12 18:49:21 <TD> these "top supercomputer" lists are bunk though
2024 2011-02-12 18:49:22 <newsham> two stones with one bird
2025 2011-02-12 18:49:28 bk128 has joined
2026 2011-02-12 18:49:32 <TD> they started counting big datacenters, effectively
2027 2011-02-12 18:49:50 <ArtForz> huh?
2028 2011-02-12 18:50:10 skeledrew has joined
2029 2011-02-12 18:50:36 <jdankanyin> are you guys worried about pay per byte pricing in canada
2030 2011-02-12 18:50:45 <ArtForz> just because it's a not a unified memory system doesn't make it not a supercomputer
2031 2011-02-12 18:51:07 <newsham> this would make a super miner http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49690000/jpg/_49690750_tianhesupercomputer.jpg
2032 2011-02-12 18:51:11 <ArtForz> and for decent linpack scores you need a *lot* of interconnect
2033 2011-02-12 18:51:15 <ArtForz> no it wouldnt
2034 2011-02-12 18:51:19 <newsham> is that what artforz livingroom looks like? :)
2035 2011-02-12 18:51:30 <newsham> artforz: you dont like nvidia gpus?
2036 2011-02-12 18:51:41 <Raulo> newsham: Tiange is Top1
2037 2011-02-12 18:51:43 <ArtForz> the gpus are more or less a gimmick
2038 2011-02-12 18:51:46 <Raulo> Tianhe*
2039 2011-02-12 18:51:53 <ArtForz> note #CPUs vs #GPUs
2040 2011-02-12 18:52:15 <newsham> 7kgpu 14kcpu
2041 2011-02-12 18:52:25 <newsham> still more gpus than i have
2042 2011-02-12 18:52:40 <ArtForz> ?
2043 2011-02-12 18:53:12 <newsham> "To reach such high speeds the machine draws on more than 7,000 graphics processors and 14,000 Intel chips.
2044 2011-02-12 18:53:40 <newsham> "Tianhe-1A is unusual in that it unites thousands of Intel processors with thousands of graphics cards made by Nvidia.
2045 2011-02-12 18:54:10 <Raulo> GPUs are very hard to use in scientific calculations. I doubt they utilize this computational power effectively
2046 2011-02-12 18:54:30 <ArtForz> they're pretty much useless for linpack
2047 2011-02-12 18:54:52 <genjix> meh some guy wants paypal for something i need
2048 2011-02-12 18:54:58 <Raulo> Linpack is one thing and real life applicatyion are enother
2049 2011-02-12 18:55:18 <genjix> tempted to ask him to accept bitcoin for his business but don't have enough :(
2050 2011-02-12 18:55:20 <Syke> the lab I work with does primary calculations on CPUs, then does the visualizations on GPUs.
2051 2011-02-12 18:56:07 Asphodelia has joined
2052 2011-02-12 18:56:24 <newsham> so why are labs building ps3 clusters for their scientific computing?
2053 2011-02-12 18:56:55 <Raulo> I did DGEMM benchmarking on 5970 and it was a very respectable 300 GFLOPS per GPU. But any real-life calculation will have a bottleneck in the PCI-Express bus transfer speed
2054 2011-02-12 18:57:07 <ArtForz> because a cell cpu is not a gpu?
2055 2011-02-12 18:57:32 <nevezen> cells are used in some server blades
2056 2011-02-12 18:57:37 <ArtForz> yes
2057 2011-02-12 18:57:45 <ArtForz> on a cell you have 8 more-or-less independent 128-bit SIMD units
2058 2011-02-12 18:58:10 <ArtForz> a modern 6-core CPU is usually faster
2059 2011-02-12 18:59:04 <TD> ArtForz: how do you define supercomputers then ?
2060 2011-02-12 19:00:51 <ArtForz> btw, wonder what kind of nvidia GPUs those are supposed to be
2061 2011-02-12 19:01:13 Syke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2062 2011-02-12 19:01:21 <TD> if it's purely "lots of cpus attached to fast interconnect but not shared memory" then the top 100 list would look very different if every such machine was public :-)
2063 2011-02-12 19:01:51 <Raulo> On the other hand, I think CPUs will more and more resemble today's GPU: massive parallelism
2064 2011-02-12 19:01:57 <molecular> made a python hack that forwards trade info from #bitcoin-market to festival text to speech, anyone interested?
2065 2011-02-12 19:02:08 <ArtForz> I doubt it
2066 2011-02-12 19:02:13 <Raulo> Why?
2067 2011-02-12 19:02:24 <ArtForz> for a lot of problems SIMD doesnt really help
2068 2011-02-12 19:02:55 <ArtForz> and GPUs are pretty much just that, massive vector units
2069 2011-02-12 19:03:07 <TD> Raulo: the core count is going up but i wouldn't call even an 8 core processor "massively parallel"
2070 2011-02-12 19:03:25 <Raulo> What about 1024-core?
2071 2011-02-12 19:03:27 <ArtForz> well, multicore != GPU
2072 2011-02-12 19:03:33 <TD> Raulo: most apps would prefer to run on a small number of superfast cores than lots of slow cores
2073 2011-02-12 19:03:34 <ArtForz> MIMD != SIMD
2074 2011-02-12 19:03:48 <TD> Raulo: straight-line performance is usually more important.
2075 2011-02-12 19:03:51 <Raulo> Artforz. Yes, I was imprecise
2076 2011-02-12 19:04:22 <Raulo> Future CPUs will be massively parallel but MIMD
2077 2011-02-12 19:04:22 <TD> big complex superscalar cores like intels are for many apps the right way to get more speed
2078 2011-02-12 19:04:28 <ArtForz> and some problems simply don't parallelize well
2079 2011-02-12 19:05:29 <TD> even when they do, you sometimes want lots of fast cpus rather than even more slow cpus
2080 2011-02-12 19:05:36 <ArtForz> yep
2081 2011-02-12 19:05:43 <ArtForz> I suspect we'll see more cell-like CPUs
2082 2011-02-12 19:06:03 <ArtForz> a bunch of general purpose cores with a few dozen vector units tacked on
2083 2011-02-12 19:06:06 <TD> google uses lots of the fastest cpus money can buy because straight line performance is important and serving web traffic scales out horizontally
2084 2011-02-12 19:06:13 <TD> yeah
2085 2011-02-12 19:07:05 <ArtForz> cells problem is that its simply getting dated
2086 2011-02-12 19:07:09 <jdankanyin> too bad google is run and own bye ad compaies
2087 2011-02-12 19:07:35 <TD> well and that it never took off outside the ps3
2088 2011-02-12 19:07:43 <ArtForz> back when cell was new having 8 128-bit wide SIMD units was impressive
2089 2011-02-12 19:07:44 <TD> they demoed some cell powered TVs at one point i think
2090 2011-02-12 19:08:03 <ArtForz> nowadays thats what a midrange quadcore CPU has...
2091 2011-02-12 19:08:24 <ArtForz> that sounds just stupid
2092 2011-02-12 19:08:36 <TD> yes. probably why they never went anywhere :-)
2093 2011-02-12 19:08:53 <nevezen> thought google uses cheap modified replaceable "blades"..
2094 2011-02-12 19:09:00 <TD> it would suck to be tasked with building a non-ps3 cell based product purely for the purposes of trying to prove it's not specific to games consoles
2095 2011-02-12 19:09:11 Syke has joined
2096 2011-02-12 19:09:20 <ArtForz> well, IBM does have cell-based blade servers
2097 2011-02-12 19:09:44 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
2098 2011-02-12 19:09:44 bk128 has joined
2099 2011-02-12 19:09:48 <ArtForz> the problem is they suck on price/perf
2100 2011-02-12 19:10:27 <nevezen> different use for different audience/customers?
2101 2011-02-12 19:10:29 <Asphodelia> You know it's only a matter of time before someone designs custom mining hardware...
2102 2011-02-12 19:10:51 <JFK911> fpgas on hypertransport
2103 2011-02-12 19:11:11 <ArtForz> useless
2104 2011-02-12 19:11:30 <genjix> this is fucking crazy!
2105 2011-02-12 19:11:35 <ArtForz> FPGAs make shitty miners
2106 2011-02-12 19:11:38 <genjix> last night 1.1 btc per $
2107 2011-02-12 19:11:49 <JFK911> ok someone should tape out asic then
2108 2011-02-12 19:11:49 <genjix> this morning was 0.9 btc per $ briefly
2109 2011-02-12 19:11:55 <genjix> bubble is imminent.
2110 2011-02-12 19:12:01 <ArtForz> Asphodelia: already did that
2111 2011-02-12 19:12:03 <molecular> JFK911, someone is
2112 2011-02-12 19:12:05 <JFK911> bubble = now :)
2113 2011-02-12 19:12:23 <Raulo> genjix: define bubble
2114 2011-02-12 19:12:37 <genjix> Raulo: bitcoin value taking a large hit
2115 2011-02-12 19:12:57 <Raulo> You mean a crash
2116 2011-02-12 19:13:03 <Raulo> I would love a crash
2117 2011-02-12 19:13:07 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
2118 2011-02-12 19:13:13 <JFK911> when bubble pops = crash
2119 2011-02-12 19:13:16 <nevezen> how do people calculate the $/btc ratio?
2120 2011-02-12 19:13:19 <genjix> me too :D
2121 2011-02-12 19:13:28 <genjix> nevezen: bitcoinwatch.com from all the exchanges
2122 2011-02-12 19:13:37 <Syke> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html
2123 2011-02-12 19:13:40 <Raulo> A crash would stop crazy increases in difficulty
2124 2011-02-12 19:13:43 <ArtForz> me too
2125 2011-02-12 19:13:58 <JFK911> Raulo: i donno
2126 2011-02-12 19:14:01 <ArtForz> not really that crazy
2127 2011-02-12 19:14:28 <nevezen> that's just a site showing bitcoin stats.
2128 2011-02-12 19:14:30 <JFK911> earlier this week it swung btw .80something and 1.10 in one day.
2129 2011-02-12 19:14:31 <ArtForz> but yeah, $/difficulty is currently pretty damn high
2130 2011-02-12 19:14:38 <TD> JFK911: in fact ArtForz should be getting a shipment of structured ASICs on monday, i think ?
2131 2011-02-12 19:14:40 <TD> exciting times
2132 2011-02-12 19:14:46 <ArtForz> monday or tuesday
2133 2011-02-12 19:14:52 <Raulo> $/difficulty is at mid-December levels
2134 2011-02-12 19:14:53 <JFK911> haha sweet
2135 2011-02-12 19:14:56 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
2136 2011-02-12 19:14:58 <Raulo> Let me check
2137 2011-02-12 19:15:09 <ArtForz> depends on just how fucking slow UPS is this time
2138 2011-02-12 19:15:10 <TD> is the plan to swap out your current mining capacity for the chips and bank the power savings or to add it on top?
2139 2011-02-12 19:15:20 <ArtForz> for now run it on top
2140 2011-02-12 19:15:30 <Raulo> Nope. Mid-November level
2141 2011-02-12 19:15:41 <TD> i look forward to the increase in difficulty. hopefully you won't end up dominating the network
2142 2011-02-12 19:15:47 <ArtForz> would be stupid to lose the GPUs at this point
2143 2011-02-12 19:15:49 <Raulo> Artforz: the increases in difficulty ARE crazy
2144 2011-02-12 19:15:56 <ArtForz> errr... no
2145 2011-02-12 19:16:06 <JFK911> how big is your asic? what process?
2146 2011-02-12 19:16:06 <Raulo> They were larger but the network was smaller
2147 2011-02-12 19:16:10 <ArtForz> we had well > 40%/period growth for quite a while
2148 2011-02-12 19:16:30 <Raulo> A single 5970 meant 10% increaso of hashspeed
2149 2011-02-12 19:16:44 <Raulo> Now you need 5 for one percent increase
2150 2011-02-12 19:16:48 <TD> good
2151 2011-02-12 19:17:14 <ArtForz> JFK911: structured ASIC on 65nm
2152 2011-02-12 19:17:18 <TD> we should open a betting pool on how many years it'll be before you have to open an entire datacenter to shift the needle
2153 2011-02-12 19:17:24 Diablo-D3 has joined
2154 2011-02-12 19:17:56 <molecular> you can already bet on difficulty
2155 2011-02-12 19:17:57 <ArtForz> size - smallest I could fit 2 fully pipelined sha256 blocks in
2156 2011-02-12 19:18:27 jdankanyin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2157 2011-02-12 19:18:31 <JFK911> ArtForz: Oh is it off the shelf device?
2158 2011-02-12 19:18:36 <ArtForz> not quite
2159 2011-02-12 19:18:48 <JFK911> like old school PLA kind of?
2160 2011-02-12 19:18:53 <JFK911> ULA
2161 2011-02-12 19:18:57 <ArtForz> well... kinda
2162 2011-02-12 19:19:01 alystair has joined
2163 2011-02-12 19:19:12 <JFK911> what kind of lead times to get masked & assembled?
2164 2011-02-12 19:19:14 <Diablo-D3> anyone who has a nick of JFK911 _must_ be a troll
2165 2011-02-12 19:19:21 <ArtForz> 8 wks
2166 2011-02-12 19:19:23 ntosme2 has joined
2167 2011-02-12 19:19:41 <JFK911> wow
2168 2011-02-12 19:19:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: are they done yet?
2169 2011-02-12 19:20:01 <JFK911> thats pretty hot
2170 2011-02-12 19:20:02 <Raulo> ArtForz: So how many extra GH/s are you going to put online next week?
2171 2011-02-12 19:20:03 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: shipped, should arrive mon or tue
2172 2011-02-12 19:20:10 <Diablo-D3> niiiice
2173 2011-02-12 19:20:14 <Diablo-D3> Raulo: over 9000
2174 2011-02-12 19:20:19 <Diablo-D3> Art will be half the network
2175 2011-02-12 19:20:38 <ArtForz> probably only a few Gh/s
2176 2011-02-12 19:20:39 <Raulo> over 9000 of what?
2177 2011-02-12 19:20:52 <JFK911> Raulo: "Over 9000" is a troll term. :(
2178 2011-02-12 19:20:52 <ArtForz> if at all
2179 2011-02-12 19:20:59 <Diablo-D3> over 9000 is a meme
2180 2011-02-12 19:21:05 dissipate_ has joined
2181 2011-02-12 19:21:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: how many, though?
2182 2011-02-12 19:21:53 <ArtForz> well, I can't exactly predict how long bringup will take
2183 2011-02-12 19:22:06 <JFK911> I didn't realize there were asic shortcuts. I'm intrigued a little.
2184 2011-02-12 19:22:20 <TD> yeah, neither did i. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_ASIC_platform
2185 2011-02-12 19:22:27 <ArtForz> JFK911: base silicon and lower metal layers are fixed
2186 2011-02-12 19:22:27 <JFK911> Turns out I know someone who works at a corp that offers these products. I'm going to chat them up.
2187 2011-02-12 19:22:40 <TD> i work with a guy who used to work at altera
2188 2011-02-12 19:22:46 <TD> they do them, apparently
2189 2011-02-12 19:23:07 <JFK911> ArtForz: Right, so you get whatever modules they decided to package together.
2190 2011-02-12 19:23:15 <JFK911> Unless you get to pick your own. that would be pretty leet
2191 2011-02-12 19:23:16 <ArtForz> FPGA "wastes" about 2/3 of chip space for programmable interconnect
2192 2011-02-12 19:23:30 <TD> uses :)
2193 2011-02-12 19:23:35 <ArtForz> you get pretty much the standard logic blocks as in FPGAs
2194 2011-02-12 19:23:36 <JFK911> Yeah, by having granularity larger than one gate, you get more efficiency
2195 2011-02-12 19:24:05 <ArtForz> LUTs, FFs, block RAMs, clock PLLs, IO serdes
2196 2011-02-12 19:24:22 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
2197 2011-02-12 19:24:30 <ArtForz> the main difference is FPGA 'wastes' about 2/3 chip space for the programmable interconnect matrix
2198 2011-02-12 19:24:39 <JFK911> okay, my actual experience is with smaller pld's
2199 2011-02-12 19:24:47 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2200 2011-02-12 19:24:48 <JFK911> pal gal mickeymouse etc.
2201 2011-02-12 19:24:58 theymos has joined
2202 2011-02-12 19:25:01 <ArtForz> ahhh, good ole 16V8 ;)
2203 2011-02-12 19:25:07 <JFK911> tru!!
2204 2011-02-12 19:25:18 niftyzero1 has joined
2205 2011-02-12 19:25:50 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
2206 2011-02-12 19:29:26 skeledrew1 has joined
2207 2011-02-12 19:29:30 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2208 2011-02-12 19:30:26 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
2209 2011-02-12 19:30:44 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
2210 2011-02-12 19:35:00 <andrew12> ;;bc,stats
2211 2011-02-12 19:35:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107700 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1163 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 6 hours, 52 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33462.68190636
2212 2011-02-12 19:35:22 <andrew12> holy difficulty increase batman
2213 2011-02-12 19:36:20 <andrew12> ;;bc,poolstats
2214 2011-02-12 19:36:21 <gribble> {"active_workers": 595, "ghashes_ps": "44.644", "getwork_ps": 256}
2215 2011-02-12 19:38:20 spaetz_ has joined
2216 2011-02-12 19:38:37 lzd_hz has joined
2217 2011-02-12 19:45:42 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2218 2011-02-12 19:46:18 TD has joined
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2220 2011-02-12 19:54:03 <hozer> how long does a good GPU miner take to generate 1 BTC?
2221 2011-02-12 19:54:31 <JFK911> Six hours or so
2222 2011-02-12 19:54:55 <MartianW> hozer, depends on the card.
2223 2011-02-12 19:54:58 <hozer> that's probably 200 watts or so
2224 2011-02-12 19:55:05 <[Noodles]> define "good"
2225 2011-02-12 19:55:08 <JFK911> I was thinking more like 1kW.
2226 2011-02-12 19:55:15 <[Noodles]> lol
2227 2011-02-12 19:55:20 <[Noodles]> nah, not that many
2228 2011-02-12 19:55:43 <[Noodles]> i got 5GPUs and they all together need ~1kW
2229 2011-02-12 19:55:59 <JFK911> That sounds "good" :)
2230 2011-02-12 19:56:16 <[Noodles]> and generate about ~50btc/day
2231 2011-02-12 19:56:36 <hozer> if 1BTC = 1USD, that's about $1.00/KWH
2232 2011-02-12 19:57:05 <JFK911> My neighbors haven't noticed the extension cord running thru their backyard yet.
2233 2011-02-12 19:57:10 <JFK911> They are an elderly couple.
2234 2011-02-12 19:57:12 <[Noodles]> more like $2/kWh
2235 2011-02-12 19:57:29 <MartianW> JFK911, neither has my botnet army's victims.
2236 2011-02-12 19:57:30 <[Noodles]> 50btc/day = 2btc/hr
2237 2011-02-12 19:57:39 skeledrew has joined
2238 2011-02-12 19:57:39 <dissipate_> JFK911, haha, good one.
2239 2011-02-12 19:57:59 <dissipate_> i wonder if anyone is stealing power or computers at their university
2240 2011-02-12 19:58:04 <JFK911> Yea. I was able to find a dark green cable, too. Blends into the lawn.
2241 2011-02-12 19:58:38 <MartianW> dissipate, my college has pretty fancy graphics cards for the Computer Graphics course.
2242 2011-02-12 19:58:47 <MartianW> I should ask them about mining on them.
2243 2011-02-12 19:58:57 <dissipate_> MartianW, ask them? just do it.
2244 2011-02-12 19:59:37 <hozer> HAH
2245 2011-02-12 20:00:07 <hozer> I'm debating writing a business plan to put up a wind turbine and gpus
2246 2011-02-12 20:00:07 <JFK911> I'll be sending USB keys to all my customers as a free gift. With minderd.msi in autorun.inf.
2247 2011-02-12 20:00:19 <JFK911> Oops, minerd.msi.
2248 2011-02-12 20:00:48 <MartianW> dissipate, the hardware admin guy is pretty sharp.
2249 2011-02-12 20:01:07 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2250 2011-02-12 20:01:09 <JFK911> Luckily, miners are software.
2251 2011-02-12 20:01:14 <dissipate_> MartianW, tell him you will cut him in on the action. :)
2252 2011-02-12 20:01:26 <JFK911> My intern's college has a crazy firewall. So that would never work there.
2253 2011-02-12 20:01:46 yay68922 has joined
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2255 2011-02-12 20:04:33 <citiz3n> anyone else having issues with the pool not paying out?
2256 2011-02-12 20:04:50 <dissipate_> citiz3n, which pool?
2257 2011-02-12 20:04:53 <citiz3n> im way above my threshhold in confirmed blocks
2258 2011-02-12 20:04:55 <citiz3n> slush's pool
2259 2011-02-12 20:05:16 <JFK911> he's on vacation atm. and has had a lot of traffic.
2260 2011-02-12 20:05:23 <citiz3n> usually it pays out right away once the threshhold has been met
2261 2011-02-12 20:05:29 <citiz3n> strangely it's not paying out right now
2262 2011-02-12 20:05:29 <dissipate_> citiz3n, we had someone in here bragging about how they were going to steal all the BTC from some mining pool and then shut it down once people catch on to the scam.
2263 2011-02-12 20:05:33 * midnightmagic_ is amused that even people actively trying to use tonal are confused by it.
2264 2011-02-12 20:07:00 <dissipate_> citiz3n, how much BTC does it owe you?
2265 2011-02-12 20:07:17 skeledrew1 has joined
2266 2011-02-12 20:07:38 <citiz3n> almost 50 confirmed right now
2267 2011-02-12 20:07:43 <citiz3n> treshhold is at 30
2268 2011-02-12 20:08:13 <citiz3n> whoa there we go
2269 2011-02-12 20:08:16 <citiz3n> i think it just payed out
2270 2011-02-12 20:08:20 <hozer> what is the benefit of mining pools
2271 2011-02-12 20:08:31 <citiz3n> yeah it just paid 55
2272 2011-02-12 20:08:38 <citiz3n> maybe he set it to pay less frequently
2273 2011-02-12 20:08:44 <citiz3n> in order to reduce system resources
2274 2011-02-12 20:08:49 <citiz3n> usage
2275 2011-02-12 20:09:30 <citiz3n> the benefit to the pool is especially for people with limited mining capability
2276 2011-02-12 20:09:31 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2277 2011-02-12 20:09:40 <citiz3n> if you have a slow graphics card or you are mining with a CPU
2278 2011-02-12 20:09:49 <citiz3n> you could go a very very very long time before ever seeing a block
2279 2011-02-12 20:09:53 <citiz3n> or perhaps never see coins at all
2280 2011-02-12 20:10:07 <presence> it evens up the average times also
2281 2011-02-12 20:10:11 midnightmagic_ has left ("Leaving")
2282 2011-02-12 20:10:15 <presence> since so many miners are involved
2283 2011-02-12 20:10:37 davex___ has joined
2284 2011-02-12 20:10:56 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2285 2011-02-12 20:13:32 davex___ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2286 2011-02-12 20:14:10 davex___ has joined
2287 2011-02-12 20:15:33 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2288 2011-02-12 20:17:20 skeledrew has joined
2289 2011-02-12 20:17:47 xelister has joined
2290 2011-02-12 20:17:47 xelister has quit (Changing host)
2291 2011-02-12 20:17:47 xelister has joined
2292 2011-02-12 20:18:02 mtgox has joined
2293 2011-02-12 20:18:32 <molecular> next difficulty increase will be 29% according to current estimate, uuuuh
2294 2011-02-12 20:19:32 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2295 2011-02-12 20:20:11 <molecular> and it will be in 5 days, 5 days earlier than 2 weeks, lol
2296 2011-02-12 20:20:50 <hozer> we've got a BTC bubble going on here ;)
2297 2011-02-12 20:21:03 <spaetz_> yep
2298 2011-02-12 20:21:07 <molecular> to all new miners: this is a bubble, don't start mining!
2299 2011-02-12 20:21:46 <molecular> we're getting slashdotted or something
2300 2011-02-12 20:21:59 <molecular> well, I'd say it's a good thing. let it grow
2301 2011-02-12 20:22:02 <cjdelisle> oh ya like my fpga army?
2302 2011-02-12 20:22:08 <nevezen> how selfish
2303 2011-02-12 20:22:16 <molecular> fpga's suck for mining apparently
2304 2011-02-12 20:22:30 <cjdelisle> Depends on the code I would say.
2305 2011-02-12 20:22:43 <hozer> does anyone have running fpga mining code?
2306 2011-02-12 20:22:54 <molecular> according to artfortz you'd need the biggest available fpga (1600 bucks) to fit 2 unrolled sha-256 rounds
2307 2011-02-12 20:22:55 <cjdelisle> no, I was kidding
2308 2011-02-12 20:23:12 <ArtForz> not really biggest
2309 2011-02-12 20:23:15 <cjdelisle> That sounds pretty bad
2310 2011-02-12 20:23:22 <molecular> sorry for misquoting, then, artforz
2311 2011-02-12 20:24:32 <cjdelisle> hehe use sha1-hmac for currentc network --> share technology with wifi people
2312 2011-02-12 20:24:47 <ArtForz> to fit 2 full rounds you need about a virtex6-195
2313 2011-02-12 20:24:56 <ArtForz> *2 full blocks
2314 2011-02-12 20:25:22 <cjdelisle> Ahh so it's an issue of having enough registers for the work space?
2315 2011-02-12 20:25:36 <ArtForz> registers and adders, mainly
2316 2011-02-12 20:26:08 <cjdelisle> Last night I wrote up a proof of work implementation which uses 4k of memory.
2317 2011-02-12 20:26:33 <cjdelisle> http://www.pastebay.com/114488 </shameless self promotion>
2318 2011-02-12 20:27:13 <molecular> 4k memory for data or code or both?
2319 2011-02-12 20:27:20 <cjdelisle> But 4k would pretty much knock out the hardware implementations and even the video cards from competition.
2320 2011-02-12 20:27:32 <cjdelisle> data
2321 2011-02-12 20:28:03 <ArtForz> lol, sure...
2322 2011-02-12 20:28:15 <molecular> I don't follow
2323 2011-02-12 20:28:42 spaetz_ has left ()
2324 2011-02-12 20:28:50 <ArtForz> btw, can you write down that algo in non-crap
2325 2011-02-12 20:29:14 <cjdelisle> a = hash(input) b = hash(a) .... z = hash(y) z = z xor y z = hash(z) z = z xor x z = hash(z) ...
2326 2011-02-12 20:29:51 <cjdelisle> Yes, I should write it up even though the algo itself is pretty trivial.
2327 2011-02-12 20:30:12 nonperturbative has joined
2328 2011-02-12 20:31:52 <hozer> now I'm sitting here wondering about running a miner on an amazon EC2 HPC instance
2329 2011-02-12 20:33:18 <hozer> they have M2050 Tesla GPUS... but having 22GB of memory seems like quite a waste
2330 2011-02-12 20:33:33 <Diablo-D3> hozer: no
2331 2011-02-12 20:33:37 <Diablo-D3> having teslas is a waste
2332 2011-02-12 20:33:45 <Diablo-D3> why would anyone buy cards so fucking slow
2333 2011-02-12 20:33:52 <cjdelisle> Also most of the memory on a gpu is slow.
2334 2011-02-12 20:34:03 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: you fail at hardware design forever
2335 2011-02-12 20:34:16 <cjdelisle> oreally
2336 2011-02-12 20:34:23 <Diablo-D3> its extremely fast
2337 2011-02-12 20:34:36 <cjdelisle> how fast is that?
2338 2011-02-12 20:34:47 <dissipate_> nanoseconds beotch
2339 2011-02-12 20:35:28 <Diablo-D3> 176GB/sec on 256-bit wide 5.5gbps gddr5
2340 2011-02-12 20:35:35 <cjdelisle> wow
2341 2011-02-12 20:35:58 <cjdelisle> So you mean all this time they have made processor caches has been wasted?
2342 2011-02-12 20:36:01 <Mango-chan> how good are m2050 @ mining?
2343 2011-02-12 20:36:05 <dissipate_> Diablo-D3, access time?
2344 2011-02-12 20:36:07 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: worthless
2345 2011-02-12 20:36:11 <Diablo-D3> dissipate_: extremely low
2346 2011-02-12 20:36:13 <Mango-chan> how worthless
2347 2011-02-12 20:36:24 <ArtForz> about 65Mh/s worthless
2348 2011-02-12 20:36:24 <dissipate_> Diablo-D3, nanoseconds? picoseconds?
2349 2011-02-12 20:36:25 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: I'd have to look, but its nvidia
2350 2011-02-12 20:36:35 <Diablo-D3> dissipate_: several nanoseconds
2351 2011-02-12 20:36:47 <dissipate_> wow
2352 2011-02-12 20:36:49 <Mango-chan> 3.5 days of mining 120 coins~
2353 2011-02-12 20:36:50 <Mango-chan> yeaaah
2354 2011-02-12 20:36:54 dishwara_ has joined
2355 2011-02-12 20:37:05 <dissipate_> not too shabby
2356 2011-02-12 20:37:14 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, hi
2357 2011-02-12 20:37:16 <cjdelisle> Maybe you should work for intel or amd so you can point out that they are ifdiots for putting >1megabyte L1 and L2 caches on every processor.
2358 2011-02-12 20:37:22 <Mango-chan> hi dissipate
2359 2011-02-12 20:37:24 <Mango-chan> hi dissipate_
2360 2011-02-12 20:37:30 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, you mined 120 coins in 3 days?
2361 2011-02-12 20:37:35 <Mango-chan> 3.5~
2362 2011-02-12 20:37:37 <Mango-chan> currently on day 4
2363 2011-02-12 20:37:42 <Diablo-D3> btw, as comparison. dual channel ddr3-1333 is 22GB/sec
2364 2011-02-12 20:37:44 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, what hardware are you running?
2365 2011-02-12 20:37:47 <Mango-chan> 2x6950
2366 2011-02-12 20:37:51 <Mango-chan> 1x6870
2367 2011-02-12 20:37:53 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, awesome
2368 2011-02-12 20:37:54 <Mango-chan> 1x gtx260
2369 2011-02-12 20:38:02 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, did you write that paper?
2370 2011-02-12 20:38:03 <Mango-chan> 1x 16core linux (w/ hc)
2371 2011-02-12 20:38:06 dishwara_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2372 2011-02-12 20:38:07 <Mango-chan> no dissipate_
2373 2011-02-12 20:38:10 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: and no, L1 doesnt do what you think it does
2374 2011-02-12 20:38:13 <Mango-chan> i need to speak with a professor about it
2375 2011-02-12 20:38:14 <Mango-chan> i just woke up
2376 2011-02-12 20:38:19 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, gotcha
2377 2011-02-12 20:38:19 <Mango-chan> and i have midterms actual classes to worry about
2378 2011-02-12 20:38:21 <Mango-chan> so
2379 2011-02-12 20:38:22 <Mango-chan> after that
2380 2011-02-12 20:38:26 dishwara has joined
2381 2011-02-12 20:38:33 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: and there are CPUs that have 128MB of L2/L3 per socket (and they're multisocket boxes)
2382 2011-02-12 20:38:52 <Mango-chan> so why is nvidia so shit at mining?
2383 2011-02-12 20:38:53 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, what mining program are you using?
2384 2011-02-12 20:38:59 <Mango-chan> python miner
2385 2011-02-12 20:39:02 <cjdelisle> Now why would they do that if memory lookups are "extremely fast" ?
2386 2011-02-12 20:39:02 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: poor integer performance
2387 2011-02-12 20:39:04 <dissipate_> cool
2388 2011-02-12 20:39:10 <Mango-chan> w/ slush's pool
2389 2011-02-12 20:39:25 <dissipate_> awesome
2390 2011-02-12 20:39:32 <ArtForz> cjdelisle: maybe learn about design tradeoffs, then ask again
2391 2011-02-12 20:39:37 <Mango-chan> gonna buy a 5870 once i hit enough btc
2392 2011-02-12 20:39:44 <Mango-chan> then rinse and repeat
2393 2011-02-12 20:39:47 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, i just gambled on a bitcoin gambling site and won .01 BTC
2394 2011-02-12 20:39:50 <Mango-chan> lol
2395 2011-02-12 20:39:57 <JFK911> score!
2396 2011-02-12 20:40:04 <Mango-chan> congratulations
2397 2011-02-12 20:40:14 <Diablo-D3> so, how much does a m2050 cost? its like $2k isnt it?
2398 2011-02-12 20:40:15 midnightmagic_ has joined
2399 2011-02-12 20:40:18 <dissipate_> oh yeah, it is so pimpin
2400 2011-02-12 20:40:27 midnightmagic_ has quit (Changing host)
2401 2011-02-12 20:40:27 midnightmagic_ has joined
2402 2011-02-12 20:40:32 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, are you going to put your paper online for peer review?
2403 2011-02-12 20:40:42 <Mango-chan> dissipate_ it won't be till a long time
2404 2011-02-12 20:40:44 <Diablo-D3> actually maybe closer to $3k
2405 2011-02-12 20:40:48 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2406 2011-02-12 20:40:53 <Mango-chan> and 'd probably convince a professor
2407 2011-02-12 20:40:57 <Mango-chan> to lead the research
2408 2011-02-12 20:40:59 <Mango-chan> as i have no experience
2409 2011-02-12 20:41:06 <Mango-chan> and not much knowledge to conduct research
2410 2011-02-12 20:41:13 <Mango-chan> but i'd volunteer to help though, in whatever way i can
2411 2011-02-12 20:41:18 <Mango-chan> i'm just trying to "sell the idea"
2412 2011-02-12 20:41:20 <dissipate_> btw, how come no one has looked into custom SHA-256 hardware. i'm sure some government contractor has built some.
2413 2011-02-12 20:41:24 MrCoin has joined
2414 2011-02-12 20:41:36 <Diablo-D3> dissipate_: Art's custom hardware is coming in next week ;)
2415 2011-02-12 20:41:36 <cjdelisle> dissipate_: yes, all the time
2416 2011-02-12 20:41:41 <Mango-chan> brb lunch
2417 2011-02-12 20:41:42 <Mango-chan> i'll be back
2418 2011-02-12 20:41:46 <hozer> why can't I buy a bitcoin rig (bitcoinrigs.com) with bitcoins ;)
2419 2011-02-12 20:41:46 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, anyone with an internet connection can research
2420 2011-02-12 20:42:18 <Diablo-D3> a 6970 costs, say, $350
2421 2011-02-12 20:42:23 <Diablo-D3> a m2050 costs, say, $3k
2422 2011-02-12 20:43:40 <ArtForz> and the 6970 is > 4x faster ...
2423 2011-02-12 20:43:41 <Diablo-D3> m2050 = 225 watt part, 1030 SP MAD GFLOPS, half of that for DP
2424 2011-02-12 20:43:46 <cjdelisle> < ArtForz> cjdelisle: maybe learn about design tradeoffs, then ask again <-- "I don't have to say anything because you are an idiot" a relitively cheap answer.
2425 2011-02-12 20:44:21 <Diablo-D3> 6970 = 250 watt part, 2700 SP MAD GFLOPS, quarter of that for DP
2426 2011-02-12 20:44:58 <ArtForz> ask stupid questions, get cheap answers
2427 2011-02-12 20:45:36 <Diablo-D3> that m2050, $5.80 per DP GFLOP, $2.91 per SP GFLOP....
2428 2011-02-12 20:46:02 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2429 2011-02-12 20:46:03 <cjdelisle> Ofc anyone can say an answer is stupid, you have proved onthing.
2430 2011-02-12 20:46:13 <Diablo-D3> that 6970, $0.51 per DP GFLOP, $0.13 per SP GFLOP
2431 2011-02-12 20:46:46 <ArtForz> well, says the guy who claimed GPUs have shitty memory speed without even bothering to FUCKING GOOGLE IT
2432 2011-02-12 20:47:15 <Diablo-D3> m2050, 0.43 watts per DP GFLOP, 0.21 watts per SP GFLOP
2433 2011-02-12 20:47:35 skeledrew1 has joined
2434 2011-02-12 20:47:41 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2435 2011-02-12 20:47:44 <Diablo-D3> 6970, 0.37 watts per DP GFLOP, 0.09 watts per SP GFLOP
2436 2011-02-12 20:48:11 <cjdelisle> All memory _latency_ it shitty, it's not just gpus, and it's not about GB/s.
2437 2011-02-12 20:48:16 MrCoin has joined
2438 2011-02-12 20:48:22 <Diablo-D3> and, to really hit it home, I can buy 8.5 6970s for the cost of a m2050....
2439 2011-02-12 20:48:32 <ArtForz> luckily latency is irrelevant if you're looking for throughput
2440 2011-02-12 20:48:49 <molecular> hozer, bitcoinrigs.com seems quite overpriced to me anyways
2441 2011-02-12 20:48:53 <Diablo-D3> or 22 times more SP GFLOPS for the same cost.
2442 2011-02-12 20:48:57 <Diablo-D3> so yeah
2443 2011-02-12 20:48:59 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is _fucked_
2444 2011-02-12 20:49:05 <cjdelisle> But if you are waiting for the output so you can do the next round then throughput doesn't help much.
2445 2011-02-12 20:49:10 <ArtForz> unless you're running shitty single threaded serial code... like... on a CPU
2446 2011-02-12 20:49:15 <molecular> hozer, made my own single-5970 for â¬600
2447 2011-02-12 20:49:42 <dissipate_> bitcoin rigs doesn't even accept BTC??
2448 2011-02-12 20:49:43 <dissipate_> lame
2449 2011-02-12 20:50:03 <molecular> yeah, that _is_ friggin lame ;)
2450 2011-02-12 20:50:18 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2451 2011-02-12 20:50:19 <dissipate_> overpriced and lame for sure
2452 2011-02-12 20:50:24 <molecular> but when you think of it: people wanting to buy mining hardware tend to not have btc anyways
2453 2011-02-12 20:50:41 <dissipate_> they should accept both $ and BTC
2454 2011-02-12 20:50:52 <molecular> also looks like shit and I'm not sure about the huge fan on the side either
2455 2011-02-12 20:51:03 <molecular> probably makes sense, though?
2456 2011-02-12 20:51:03 <Diablo-D3> m2050 is a 575mhz GF100, which == a GTX 470 give or take
2457 2011-02-12 20:52:09 <Diablo-D3> which costs $270 or so...
2458 2011-02-12 20:52:51 <Diablo-D3> and the only thing you trade is 4x worse DP performance
2459 2011-02-12 20:52:52 <molecular> too bad nystrom didn't have his way back in the 19th century
2460 2011-02-12 20:53:12 <Diablo-D3> but it costs 11 times less
2461 2011-02-12 20:53:15 <Diablo-D3> so
2462 2011-02-12 20:53:20 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is even dooming their own shit
2463 2011-02-12 20:54:16 <midnightmagic_> i think you're forgetting the purpose of video cards. their markets don't live or die based on what some niche cuda/streams freaks think is performance.
2464 2011-02-12 20:55:10 <midnightmagic_> benchmarks are crysis/quake/whatever FPS for a reason.
2465 2011-02-12 20:55:23 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: video games _are_ SP GFLOP performance.
2466 2011-02-12 20:55:27 <Diablo-D3> thats their entirety.
2467 2011-02-12 20:55:57 <midnightmagic_> nope.
2468 2011-02-12 20:56:10 <Diablo-D3> you're saying video games dont use single precision floats?
2469 2011-02-12 20:56:16 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2470 2011-02-12 20:56:17 <Diablo-D3> you fail at game design forever
2471 2011-02-12 20:56:34 <midnightmagic_> no. i'm not saying that, thanks for being a douche about it though.
2472 2011-02-12 20:56:46 <cjdelisle> ofc nv is still makeing cards and still making $$. That is kind of the proof isn't it?
2473 2011-02-12 20:56:56 <dissipate_> wow, getting feisty in here
2474 2011-02-12 20:59:07 <dissipate_> anyone see this? http://w2.cadence.com/products/ip/Cadence/SHA256_DataSheet.pdf
2475 2011-02-12 21:00:42 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6159
2476 2011-02-12 21:00:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6159 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 29 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 59 minutes, and 33 seconds
2477 2011-02-12 21:00:48 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6354
2478 2011-02-12 21:00:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6354 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 29 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 26 minutes, and 29 seconds
2479 2011-02-12 21:00:58 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6480
2480 2011-02-12 21:00:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6480 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 28 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes, and 28 seconds
2481 2011-02-12 21:02:34 <dissipate_> anyone no one? apparently cadence sells a SHA256 chip.
2482 2011-02-12 21:03:20 <ArtForz> notice it needs 70 clocks for one sha256 block?
2483 2011-02-12 21:03:40 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/j1iZ5tgk
2484 2011-02-12 21:03:40 <dissipate_> and?
2485 2011-02-12 21:03:41 <Diablo-D3> there
2486 2011-02-12 21:03:44 <Diablo-D3> the entire comparison
2487 2011-02-12 21:04:32 <ArtForz> nothing... so you only need 140 of them to get a throughput of 1 bitcoinhash/clock
2488 2011-02-12 21:04:36 <molecular> ArtForz, where does it state 70 clocks?
2489 2011-02-12 21:04:50 <Diablo-D3> Amazon fails at GPGPU clouds forever
2490 2011-02-12 21:04:53 <ArtForz> 971mbps @ 133Mhz
2491 2011-02-12 21:05:12 <ArtForz> sha256 block is 512 bits
2492 2011-02-12 21:05:28 <dissipate_> well, if they are cheap that doesn't sound too bad.
2493 2011-02-12 21:05:32 <dissipate_> buy 1000 of them
2494 2011-02-12 21:05:51 <molecular> uh, and then?
2495 2011-02-12 21:06:13 <cjdelisle> or if they don't take much die space, have 100,000 printed on one die
2496 2011-02-12 21:06:16 <ArtForz> *one* engine is about 21k gates and 1065 FFs
2497 2011-02-12 21:06:42 <JFK911> FF is flip flop?
2498 2011-02-12 21:06:47 <ArtForz> yep
2499 2011-02-12 21:06:58 <ArtForz> so 140 of them are ... 2.94M gates and 149k FFs
2500 2011-02-12 21:07:20 <dissipate_> how many ghashes per chip?
2501 2011-02-12 21:07:29 <molecular> one of them would do 1.89Mhash/s ?
2502 2011-02-12 21:07:34 <molecular> best-case
2503 2011-02-12 21:07:39 <ArtForz> err.. 1 hash/clock
2504 2011-02-12 21:07:50 llama has joined
2505 2011-02-12 21:07:54 <ArtForz> and that 133Mhz was on 180nm structured ASIC
2506 2011-02-12 21:08:00 <ArtForz> *standard cell ASIC
2507 2011-02-12 21:08:14 <dissipate_> ArtForz, so you were aware of that chip before?
2508 2011-02-12 21:08:17 <afed> disregard women, acquire bitcoins
2509 2011-02-12 21:08:21 <ArtForz> it's not a chip
2510 2011-02-12 21:08:32 <ArtForz> it's a IP core
2511 2011-02-12 21:08:32 <molecular> what is it?
2512 2011-02-12 21:08:43 <JFK911> opencores may have same thing
2513 2011-02-12 21:08:48 <JFK911> or some other free IP repoz
2514 2011-02-12 21:08:48 <molecular> ahaa
2515 2011-02-12 21:08:57 <ArtForz> about every IP vendor on the planet has one, they all pretty much suck
2516 2011-02-12 21:09:20 <dissipate_> oh, you just load it into an FPGA or something
2517 2011-02-12 21:09:33 <ArtForz> or synthesize it for ASIC
2518 2011-02-12 21:09:56 <ArtForz> same thing
2519 2011-02-12 21:10:01 <dissipate_> ArtForz, i could be wrong, but i'm fairly certain some government defense contractor has some pimped out SHA-256 custom hardware.
2520 2011-02-12 21:10:11 <ArtForz> for what?
2521 2011-02-12 21:10:32 <dissipate_> for generating a lot of hashes for encryption purposes
2522 2011-02-12 21:10:37 <molecular> allright, and off you go!
2523 2011-02-12 21:10:41 <ArtForz> you can't push enough external bandwidth
2524 2011-02-12 21:10:41 <molecular> encryption? unlikely
2525 2011-02-12 21:10:45 <dissipate_> perhaps some pseudo-random number generator
2526 2011-02-12 21:10:50 <ArtForz> you can't push enough external bandwidth
2527 2011-02-12 21:11:09 <cjdelisle> more likely they have lots of aes circuits for doing known plaintext attacks
2528 2011-02-12 21:11:39 <molecular> like on "insurance.aes256"?
2529 2011-02-12 21:12:33 <cjdelisle> dd if=/dev/urandom of=./insurance.aes256 count=2048 bs=1M ---> troll the goobermint
2530 2011-02-12 21:12:38 <molecular> well, assange might've given us-authorities the key to that anyhow... no harm done
2531 2011-02-12 21:13:00 <molecular> just to proove he has "it" (whatever that is)
2532 2011-02-12 21:13:20 <ArtForz> a pipelined sha256 engine @ 100Mhz hashes 51.2Gbit/s ...
2533 2011-02-12 21:13:23 <dissipate_> what is insurance.aes256?
2534 2011-02-12 21:13:43 <cjdelisle> it's a file you must download now
2535 2011-02-12 21:13:57 <molecular> the one wikileaks gave to everyone threatening to publish it in case anything bad happens to assange etc.
2536 2011-02-12 21:13:59 <midnightmagic_> something we all get to read if anything ever "happens" to assange.
2537 2011-02-12 21:14:01 <dissipate_> assange is either an idiot or he's a narcissist who likes notoriety. one or the other.
2538 2011-02-12 21:14:05 <molecular> *publish key for it
2539 2011-02-12 21:14:09 <ArtForz> thats already decently into "unreasonable to run off-chip" territory
2540 2011-02-12 21:14:14 <molecular> dissipate, the second, I thinkg
2541 2011-02-12 21:14:16 <midnightmagic_> he's mendax, he's not an idiot.
2542 2011-02-12 21:14:36 <cjdelisle> he's a troll and he's funny as hell
2543 2011-02-12 21:14:39 <dissipate_> oh for fing sake, just release everything
2544 2011-02-12 21:14:46 <dissipate_> what a bunch of bull
2545 2011-02-12 21:14:56 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: he tried that, nobody cared or even paid attention.
2546 2011-02-12 21:15:00 <dissipate_> why are they holding back? just release it all.
2547 2011-02-12 21:15:13 <ArtForz> it's also effectively doing sha on 128 streams in parallel, with a 128 cycle latency
2548 2011-02-12 21:15:18 <molecular> I like the trickle-charge-mode they do now with the cables
2549 2011-02-12 21:15:24 <molecular> keeps media alert
2550 2011-02-12 21:15:51 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, anyone who thinks the banks and the government are 'above board' is an idiot anyways. anyone with half a brain knows they are all corrupt as hell, and raking in trillions off of everyone else.
2551 2011-02-12 21:15:56 <ArtForz> thats why nobody creates a IP core for such a thing, nobody needs it.
2552 2011-02-12 21:16:38 <ArtForz> oh, and that 51.2Gbit is just for data, still need to in/output hashes
2553 2011-02-12 21:17:00 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2554 2011-02-12 21:17:19 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: that's the usual conspiracy theory about them. do you have any actual proof that that's the daily modus operandi, or just the odd watered-down story to base that opinion on? :)
2555 2011-02-12 21:17:36 <molecular> ArtForz, never thought about data in/out might be bottleneck... but it is. so you need to fit the 2 unrolled into a loop and the H==0 on chip
2556 2011-02-12 21:17:45 <ArtForz> yep
2557 2011-02-12 21:18:36 <ArtForz> oh, and that IP core probably won't be able to hit high clocks
2558 2011-02-12 21:18:45 <midnightmagic_> or perhaps you'd like to tell me i fail politics forever?
2559 2011-02-12 21:18:48 <molecular> the one proposed in the pdf?
2560 2011-02-12 21:18:51 <ArtForz> yep
2561 2011-02-12 21:18:52 <ArtForz> only 70 clocks per block
2562 2011-02-12 21:18:59 <ArtForz> means they do one round/clock
2563 2011-02-12 21:19:08 <molecular> well- the i/o bottleneck FAILs it already
2564 2011-02-12 21:19:09 <ArtForz> which means they have a 5-input 32-bit adder in there
2565 2011-02-12 21:19:16 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, it's simple, look at the concentration of wealth.
2566 2011-02-12 21:19:25 <cjdelisle> Actually they (.gov) could have sha256 chips if there are interested in password guessing where there is a good pbkdf function using sha256
2567 2011-02-12 21:19:38 <ArtForz> which is generally... slow
2568 2011-02-12 21:19:51 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: that could be just capitalism, the American Dream. rich people cooking up schemes to get richer and sell more stuff to people.
2569 2011-02-12 21:19:53 * molecular just loves this channel... goes from transistors to conspiracy theories in a blink of an eyelid
2570 2011-02-12 21:20:04 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, haha, not a chance in hell.
2571 2011-02-12 21:20:28 <JFK911> My Arduino miner has been going for six hours now.
2572 2011-02-12 21:20:30 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: we both have a vague feeling of that, but before wikileaks, we never had consistent, unequivocal, volumes of proof.
2573 2011-02-12 21:20:55 <cjdelisle> Ofc no rich people or governments _ever_ do anything bad, that would be a _conspiracy_ _theory_.
2574 2011-02-12 21:20:58 <ntosme2> JFK911: 1hps hehe?
2575 2011-02-12 21:21:21 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, what more proof do you need than what is publically published as law. the law itself is loaded with protectionism and handouts for industries.
2576 2011-02-12 21:21:30 <midnightmagic_> cjdelisle: not at all; but to assume they do bad *all the time* in the absence of evidence is conspiracy theory quackery and not Rational.
2577 2011-02-12 21:21:40 <JFK911> ntosme2: It's drawing 18 micro-amperes of current at 5 volts.
2578 2011-02-12 21:22:10 <JFK911> A billion of these could be more efficient than the ati chip.
2579 2011-02-12 21:22:13 * ArtForz doubts it
2580 2011-02-12 21:22:16 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: proof of actual decision makers, doing actual harm and caught in specific lies is what wikileaks did for us.
2581 2011-02-12 21:22:25 <ArtForz> 18 uA in deep sleep... maybe
2582 2011-02-12 21:22:42 <ArtForz> active? more like 20mA
2583 2011-02-12 21:22:52 <cjdelisle> Well if every time (in history) they get a chance they abuse it, then we can assume that they will do the same next chance they get.
2584 2011-02-12 21:23:05 <JFK911> Ok, ArtForz, that's not fair to include the ethernet shield's power.
2585 2011-02-12 21:23:18 <ArtForz> seriously, just measure it
2586 2011-02-12 21:23:51 <ArtForz> only way a AVR is < 1mA if it's pretty much completely shut down while waiting for a external interrupt
2587 2011-02-12 21:24:04 <midnightmagic_> cjdelisle: but history doesn't say that at all. it's filled with all kinds of heroes and really important shifts and changes driven by great people. it's not one big long string of pure evil going back forever. :)
2588 2011-02-12 21:24:13 <molecular> btw, ArtForz, remember when I asked if it was possible to put miner oudoors? well, I did it.
2589 2011-02-12 21:24:18 chris200x9 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2590 2011-02-12 21:24:48 <molecular> it's been out there on my roofless balkony for 4 days now... still mining
2591 2011-02-12 21:24:52 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, as i said, the proof is in the law itself. it's quite obvious what they are doing.
2592 2011-02-12 21:25:02 <molecular> already got rain, 40km/h windspeeds and now it's snow
2593 2011-02-12 21:25:48 <molecular> wonder if really small snow crystals might get in, melt to water and short something... we'll see
2594 2011-02-12 21:26:01 <cjdelisle> "evil" is a normitive term, I don't care one way or the other but history has shown that you just can't turn your back on a dog who's staring at your plate of food.
2595 2011-02-12 21:26:16 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: which law? passed by whom?
2596 2011-02-12 21:26:42 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: and what specific harm was done by it?
2597 2011-02-12 21:26:48 <ntosme2> molecular: sub-zero temps should be good because the humidity is very low
2598 2011-02-12 21:27:16 <xelister> :D "* molecular just loves this channel... goes from transistors to conspiracy theories in a blink of an eyelid"
2599 2011-02-12 21:27:19 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_ tax law
2600 2011-02-12 21:27:20 <xelister> should be in topic
2601 2011-02-12 21:27:35 <molecular> ntosme2, got a pretty high in-case temp, so humidity should not be troubles
2602 2011-02-12 21:27:35 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: which section, specifically?
2603 2011-02-12 21:27:45 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, hurts vast majority of people and keeps them out of industries, benefits those already set up. obvious.
2604 2011-02-12 21:27:52 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, income tax
2605 2011-02-12 21:28:06 <molecular> xelister, yeah, nice thing: it's all in-topic, lol
2606 2011-02-12 21:28:21 <xelister> molecular: also freedom networks \o/ like freenet
2607 2011-02-12 21:28:35 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: how, specifically, is it doing harm? which measured harm are you referring to? you're talking in generalities, and this is entirely my point. you and I have a vague notion of bad stuff going on, but until recently never had the tools and resources to find out *specifics*
2608 2011-02-12 21:29:06 <midnightmagic_> wikileaks and online, easily-obtained resources are changing all that.
2609 2011-02-12 21:29:08 <cjdelisle> yea, wikileaks showed you guys whae we always knew.
2610 2011-02-12 21:29:14 <molecular> xelister, love the freenet idea. but not much except kiddie-porn and how to build bombs to be found on there... didn't check for quite a while, though
2611 2011-02-12 21:29:24 <midnightmagic_> your idea of knowing truth is strange.
2612 2011-02-12 21:29:38 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, what do you need to start a business? hmm...
2613 2011-02-12 21:30:06 <molecular> xelister, does freenetproject get talked about here? didn't see
2614 2011-02-12 21:30:37 <xelister> molecular: want kiddie porn? go to a church
2615 2011-02-12 21:30:42 <xelister> (and look at celings e.g.)
2616 2011-02-12 21:30:47 <xelister> want bombs - ask anyone
2617 2011-02-12 21:30:47 <molecular> allrighty
2618 2011-02-12 21:30:49 <molecular> will try
2619 2011-02-12 21:31:02 <xelister> yeap, catholic churches are filled with kiddie porn
2620 2011-02-12 21:31:08 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, it's not generalities. it's pretty damn. simple. a high income tax strips people of capital to start businesses, significantly reducing competition for those already established.
2621 2011-02-12 21:31:17 <xelister> usually this 'angels' are naked and like 6 yo
2622 2011-02-12 21:31:21 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: You should read "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality". It is a great teacher about human nature and how, specifically, we can know truth.
2623 2011-02-12 21:31:28 <molecular> xelister, only boys, though
2624 2011-02-12 21:31:36 <xelister> yeah, how faggish of them
2625 2011-02-12 21:31:45 <dissipate_> like i said, anyone with half a brain can figure this out. not too hard. it's not even really economics 101. it's common fing sense.
2626 2011-02-12 21:31:53 <molecular> yeah, feminist movement should do something aobut that
2627 2011-02-12 21:31:55 <xelister> no wonder it is legal to fuck 13 year olds in vatican country-city
2628 2011-02-12 21:32:22 <xelister> and that hald of catholic popes died of STDs after fucking prostitues
2629 2011-02-12 21:32:24 <xelister> but anyway
2630 2011-02-12 21:32:36 <xelister> all this more or less bad thing exist anyway in the world,
2631 2011-02-12 21:32:44 <molecular> is there a 2nd issue of the bitcoin times yet? only saw 1st
2632 2011-02-12 21:32:53 <xelister> but only in freenet you can easly talk freely (or blog) without stupid censorship shit
2633 2011-02-12 21:33:18 <xelister> molecular: bitcoin times?
2634 2011-02-12 21:33:32 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: it's not that simple. at all. you're still speaking in generalities. you haven't quoted a single actual tax regulation, or a single instance of a single business that was unable to start because someone, specifically, was paying just enough (or more) income tax that could've otherwise started a business.
2635 2011-02-12 21:33:33 <molecular> sipa or someone made like a newpaper-style pdf
2636 2011-02-12 21:33:54 <molecular> xelister, called the "bitcoin times". with ads and articles and stuff
2637 2011-02-12 21:34:02 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: don't get me wrong. I actually agree with you.
2638 2011-02-12 21:34:31 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, ok, so if i take all your money and put you out on the street i have to point out all the things you couldn't have bought. interesting logic.
2639 2011-02-12 21:34:32 <xelister> molecular: hm... url?
2640 2011-02-12 21:34:40 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: all I'm trying to say is, in order to speak authoritatively about it, we need *specific* truth. otherwise we're just old men sitting in rocking chairs complaining about how our soup was cold.
2641 2011-02-12 21:34:51 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2642 2011-02-12 21:35:06 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2643 2011-02-12 21:35:17 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: that's a false analogy. it's rhetoric.
2644 2011-02-12 21:35:25 dukeleto has joined
2645 2011-02-12 21:35:28 Omni has joined
2646 2011-02-12 21:35:33 ntosme2 has left ()
2647 2011-02-12 21:35:33 MrCoin has joined
2648 2011-02-12 21:35:33 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, well let me take all your money put you out on the cold and then tell you that it's only a generality that you can't buy food.
2649 2011-02-12 21:36:16 <molecular> xelister, http://fabianhjr.co.cc/theBitcoinTimes/issue001.odt
2650 2011-02-12 21:36:17 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: don't give up so soon. escape your cognitive dissonance and go read that fanfic i told you about.
2651 2011-02-12 21:36:23 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, capital is a key ingredient to business formation, if you take away capital you have less business formation. it's not just a generality.
2652 2011-02-12 21:36:49 <dissipate_> it is keeping people from starting businesses every day
2653 2011-02-12 21:36:59 <Mango-chan> [12:34:53] <dissipate_> Mango-chan, anyone with an internet connection can research <- never conducted one formally
2654 2011-02-12 21:36:59 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: you've now drifted so far away from the original point you are no longer arguing about the original point, and are still speaking in generalities.
2655 2011-02-12 21:37:35 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, have you ever paid income tax in your life?
2656 2011-02-12 21:37:46 <midnightmagic_> you are also talking about a system in which an alternative is superior, but have no concrete, specific definition of that alternative.
2657 2011-02-12 21:37:54 <Ljrn900> lol
2658 2011-02-12 21:38:05 <molecular> xelister, or: http://fabianhjr.co.cc/theBitcoinTimes/issue001.pdf
2659 2011-02-12 21:38:22 <midnightmagic_> and that is one which cannot be defined without quoting or identifying *THE SPECIFIC* tax law that you find objectionable. section. paragraph.
2660 2011-02-12 21:38:26 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, at what point did i start talking about 'systems?' please tell me.
2661 2011-02-12 21:38:32 dishwara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2662 2011-02-12 21:38:50 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, do you need money/capital to start a business, yes or no?
2663 2011-02-12 21:39:17 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: false dichotomy.
2664 2011-02-12 21:39:52 <dissipate_> ???
2665 2011-02-12 21:40:04 <dissipate_> simple question
2666 2011-02-12 21:40:08 <hozer> where do I find the source for a Cuda miner?
2667 2011-02-12 21:40:31 <hozer> I see pudinpop's stuff on the forums, but I'd like to get it from a git repo or something like that
2668 2011-02-12 21:40:38 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: i'll bet you don't even know what tax law is somehow unreasonably advantaging whoever it is you think the evil-doer is. i know i don't.
2669 2011-02-12 21:40:44 <Ljrn900> nvidia = crap
2670 2011-02-12 21:41:10 <hozer> Ljrn900: yeah, but I have one in my desktop right now :P
2671 2011-02-12 21:41:14 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, it's called income tax and paycheck withholding. look it up.
2672 2011-02-12 21:41:31 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: you see? you are making the claim, and then demanding I take steps to prove it.
2673 2011-02-12 21:41:33 <dissipate_> been around since about 1913 for income tax and withholding has been around since WWII
2674 2011-02-12 21:41:46 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|I would participate, but this discussion belongs in the discussion group, not the dev group.
2675 2011-02-12 21:41:50 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Err, channel
2676 2011-02-12 21:42:00 <dissipate_> midnightmagic_, you need to do prior research. if you don't know about income tax this convo is over. lmao
2677 2011-02-12 21:42:10 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: i'm telling you that you need to understand how to arrive at truth. And I will now stop because someone has complained.
2678 2011-02-12 21:42:22 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2679 2011-02-12 21:42:30 <dissipate_> i will stop too because you don't know what income tax is
2680 2011-02-12 21:42:58 <ArtForz> Omni|AFK: nobody talks about dev stuff in -dev ;)
2681 2011-02-12 21:42:59 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Complaint is too strong a word. Observation is more accurate. :-)
2682 2011-02-12 21:43:01 <xelister> Ljrn900: yes
2683 2011-02-12 21:43:10 <andrew12> how long ago was the price 0.005?
2684 2011-02-12 21:43:18 <xelister> ArtForz: where is dev stuff discussed actually
2685 2011-02-12 21:43:27 <cjdelisle> I think the reason why conspircay theories have gotten as much traction as they have is because these people are so crooked that you can make up random wild accusations and a reasonable number of them will stick.
2686 2011-02-12 21:43:37 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|It is interesting to me that bitcoins are inherently deflationary. It removes the incentive for banks, interest and loans.
2687 2011-02-12 21:43:46 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|But that's not dev talk either.
2688 2011-02-12 21:43:50 <molecular> xelister, someone suggested #bitcoin-developer a while ago when some dude went rampage here
2689 2011-02-12 21:43:57 <molecular> xelister, but it didn't take off
2690 2011-02-12 21:44:53 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|cjdelisle: I feels similarly.
2691 2011-02-12 21:45:21 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Some small percentage of the half-baked crackpot conspiracy theories out there are actually true.
2692 2011-02-12 21:45:22 <hozer> where does the standard bitcoin client report khps ?
2693 2011-02-12 21:45:44 <cjdelisle> ofc where conspiracy theorism falls down is to make the assumption that when these people make deals behind closed doors that they are actually honest enough to keep them.
2694 2011-02-12 21:45:45 <xelister> molecular: btw, PM
2695 2011-02-12 21:46:02 <xelister> hozer: in example in bitcoin info command
2696 2011-02-12 21:46:06 <xelister> bitcoind info
2697 2011-02-12 21:46:33 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2698 2011-02-12 21:46:53 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|My openssl has no elliptic curve support.
2699 2011-02-12 21:47:02 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|So I can't compile the daemon version for myself.
2700 2011-02-12 21:47:13 nonperturbative has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2701 2011-02-12 21:47:30 <ArtForz> so... compile your own openssl?
2702 2011-02-12 21:48:07 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Nope. :-)
2703 2011-02-12 21:48:12 <ArtForz> and blame redhat for patent paranoia
2704 2011-02-12 21:48:28 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|I could, but really, I would vastly prefer not to.
2705 2011-02-12 21:48:28 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2706 2011-02-12 21:48:46 <molecular> not to "blame redhat" or "compile ssl"?
2707 2011-02-12 21:48:54 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Compile ssl.
2708 2011-02-12 21:48:57 MrCoin has joined
2709 2011-02-12 21:49:19 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|I really hate OpenSSL as a crypto library anyway.
2710 2011-02-12 21:49:25 <MartianW> Omni|AFK, why?
2711 2011-02-12 21:49:38 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|It feels very misdesigned and awkward to use.
2712 2011-02-12 21:49:59 <cjdelisle> ^ +1 at least when using it from bash
2713 2011-02-12 21:50:13 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|For example, there is no clear and obvious way to simply apply an RSA encryption operation to a block of data.
2714 2011-02-12 21:50:25 Ljrn900 has joined
2715 2011-02-12 21:50:42 <cjdelisle> actually that's rsautl (from bash)
2716 2011-02-12 21:51:07 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2717 2011-02-12 21:51:59 <cjdelisle> but compared to curve25519 or even seccure/gcrypt it is really a bad api.
2718 2011-02-12 21:52:06 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|I've also followed it down into its bowels in an attempt to figure out, for example, how to write my own certificate creation utility.
2719 2011-02-12 21:52:10 <hozer> xelister: I have the gtk app running in vnc, but 'bitcoind info' says 'can't get lock
2720 2011-02-12 21:52:12 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|It's scary.
2721 2011-02-12 21:52:22 Bth8 has joined
2722 2011-02-12 21:52:25 <hozer> I mean it says 'can't connect to server'
2723 2011-02-12 21:52:35 <molecular> allright, now we're ontopic a lot more
2724 2011-02-12 21:52:43 <cjdelisle> <-- heh java crypto same
2725 2011-02-12 21:53:01 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|hozer: That only works if you have a running bitcoind.
2726 2011-02-12 21:53:14 <cjdelisle> WTF? limited to 128bity key, that ofc totally ruins pkcs-12 security.
2727 2011-02-12 21:53:31 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|If you have a running bitcoind, you can do 'bitcoin info' and it will tell you about your personal bitcoind.
2728 2011-02-12 21:53:59 <cjdelisle> Also openssl key derivation function is really bad.
2729 2011-02-12 21:53:59 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|cjdelisle: What?
2730 2011-02-12 21:54:10 <molecular> is there a difference between "bitcoind" and "bitcoin --server" ?
2731 2011-02-12 21:54:35 <molecular> expect presence of gui, of course
2732 2011-02-12 21:54:40 <cjdelisle> Java limits you to 128 bit keys and pkcs12 uses a key length based on the password length --> limit of 8 char password --> fail
2733 2011-02-12 21:55:25 <hozer> Omni|AFK: Glad to see you here ;)
2734 2011-02-12 21:55:44 <cjdelisle> Also the limit can be bypassed pretty easy, it's just basically to make some third world dictators happy or something.
2735 2011-02-12 21:56:13 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2736 2011-02-12 21:59:00 <pavelo> we seem to be running short on third world dictators nowadays
2737 2011-02-12 21:59:12 <cjdelisle> lol
2738 2011-02-12 22:01:11 <MartianW> pavelo, new ones come along.
2739 2011-02-12 22:01:16 <MartianW> As the democracies collapse.
2740 2011-02-12 22:01:44 <cjdelisle> IDK people have to believe in things for a dictator to emerge.
2741 2011-02-12 22:01:51 <MartianW> Judging by the news, soon the USA will also be it's very own third world dictatorship. ;-)
2742 2011-02-12 22:02:11 <pavelo> indeed
2743 2011-02-12 22:02:29 * Omni AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|bows to hozer.
2744 2011-02-12 22:02:30 <cjdelisle> I see a lot of people just not believing in anything which doesn't bode well for authoritarian governments and those who want to stir up wars.
2745 2011-02-12 22:02:33 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Likewise.
2746 2011-02-12 22:03:16 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|I believe in math!
2747 2011-02-12 22:03:34 <Omni> AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Axiom of choice all the way!
2748 2011-02-12 22:03:44 <cjdelisle> "we need to take over this ..... for freedom." ---> NO U
2749 2011-02-12 22:04:03 <cjdelisle> ^makes world war difficult to start
2750 2011-02-12 22:04:26 <Mango-chan> question
2751 2011-02-12 22:04:32 <Mango-chan> is it likely that when the difficulty goes up
2752 2011-02-12 22:04:43 <Mango-chan> the value of bitcoins also goes up
2753 2011-02-12 22:05:41 <MartianW> Mango-chan, value is more linked to buying and selling than difficulty.
2754 2011-02-12 22:06:03 <Mango-chan> i see
2755 2011-02-12 22:06:57 <xelister> hozer: bitcoind info says cant get lock? paste the command and output
2756 2011-02-12 22:07:14 <hozer> xelister: I had to set up bitcoind.conf
2757 2011-02-12 22:07:35 <hozer> it's a nice slow 861246 hps
2758 2011-02-12 22:08:38 <hozer> now can I set up stock bitcoin with bitpenny? I don't want to wait a year to get something ;)
2759 2011-02-12 22:10:06 <xelister> hozer: I am not sure that you can. Normally, you buy a GPU
2760 2011-02-12 22:10:23 <MartianW> hozer, you should get like 0.01 a day with a modern CPU.
2761 2011-02-12 22:10:34 <xelister> hozer: do you have at least 150 USD to 'invest'? If yes then I can teach you how to set all up (optimally 250 USD or more). And PCI-Express mainboard
2762 2011-02-12 22:10:54 <xelister> MartianW: although, even pool operators do not love cpu miners afaik
2763 2011-02-12 22:11:04 <MartianW> xelister, why would they care?
2764 2011-02-12 22:12:14 <MartianW> xelister, BTW, I'm curious, what kind of setup do you make for the 150 USD?
2765 2011-02-12 22:12:25 <hozer> xelister: I'm debating a GPU
2766 2011-02-12 22:13:00 <hozer> so the real question is what's the payback time given current difficulty and exchange rates ;)
2767 2011-02-12 22:13:05 <hozer> (assume electricity is free)
2768 2011-02-12 22:13:45 <xelister> MartianW: you could probably buy 5xxx radeon (especially used one)
2769 2011-02-12 22:14:41 <hozer> This really would be a nice excuse to get a fast radeon for my desktop
2770 2011-02-12 22:14:54 <hozer> can you run the miner and graphics on the same GPU?
2771 2011-02-12 22:15:11 <xelister> hozer: ye
2772 2011-02-12 22:15:22 <hozer> on linux?
2773 2011-02-12 22:15:24 <xelister> hozer: there will be soon a miner that is even better suited for desktop use
2774 2011-02-12 22:15:32 <xelister> but anyway already diablominer should be fine
2775 2011-02-12 22:15:53 marioxcc has joined
2776 2011-02-12 22:16:06 <xelister> yes, on linux
2777 2011-02-12 22:16:12 <xelister> should work on win too
2778 2011-02-12 22:16:16 marioxcc has left ()
2779 2011-02-12 22:16:32 devon_hillard_ has joined
2780 2011-02-12 22:16:45 <hozer> got any links to good quality cards known to work on newegg? ;)
2781 2011-02-12 22:17:09 nanotube has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2782 2011-02-12 22:18:34 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2783 2011-02-12 22:18:51 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2784 2011-02-12 22:19:06 <xelister> hozer: well basically, 5770 or anything above in 5xxx family rocks for bitcoin
2785 2011-02-12 22:19:36 <xelister> prices should start at 150-200 usd for 5770 afair
2786 2011-02-12 22:20:04 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2787 2011-02-12 22:20:34 <sipa1024> the 5970 (power-efficiency-wise an currently price-efficiency-wise the best choice) is getting rare to find for reasonable prices
2788 2011-02-12 22:20:54 <hozer> any way to tell if my desktop has an x16 connector from linux command line?
2789 2011-02-12 22:21:20 <ArtForz> yes
2790 2011-02-12 22:22:01 <Syke> any regular size desktop motherboard made in the last 5 years has an x16 connector
2791 2011-02-12 22:23:59 <hozer> so, say this.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131330&cm_re=radeon_5770-_-14-131-330-_-Product
2792 2011-02-12 22:25:32 <xelister> hozer: what card do you have now? lspci and look for line saying VGA or Vga and lookup in wikipedia/google what is connector (AGP or PCI-E) of this card you have now.
2793 2011-02-12 22:26:00 <xelister> or if you use buildin, then you could use hwinfo command or something to find model or mainboard, also 'hwinfo' should list all connectors on board and then some
2794 2011-02-12 22:26:07 <xelister> *of
2795 2011-02-12 22:28:22 bk128 has joined
2796 2011-02-12 22:29:26 <hozer> I know I've got PCI-E
2797 2011-02-12 22:29:35 <hozer> too many damn choices on cards ;)
2798 2011-02-12 22:29:46 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2799 2011-02-12 22:30:22 MrCoin has joined
2800 2011-02-12 22:30:31 <hozer> I kind of like this.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131346
2801 2011-02-12 22:30:46 sabalaba has joined
2802 2011-02-12 22:31:31 <xelister> hozer: 5770 or 5870. or 5970 if you can find one
2803 2011-02-12 22:31:43 Rhodes553 has joined
2804 2011-02-12 22:33:08 Rhodes553 has left ()
2805 2011-02-12 22:33:31 <rlifchitz> what's the structure of the "data" field within getwork?
2806 2011-02-12 22:34:20 hundfred has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2807 2011-02-12 22:34:20 <rlifchitz> first 4 bytes are for version, next 32 for previous block hash
2808 2011-02-12 22:34:28 <rlifchitz> and then?
2809 2011-02-12 22:34:45 <ArtForz> 32 bytes merkle root hash
2810 2011-02-12 22:35:12 <rlifchitz> can't find the corresponding merkle root hash with blockexplorer
2811 2011-02-12 22:35:15 <rlifchitz> is that normal?
2812 2011-02-12 22:35:47 <ArtForz> no clue
2813 2011-02-12 22:36:01 <ArtForz> and then ntime, nbits, nonce @ 4 bytes each
2814 2011-02-12 22:36:08 <ArtForz> = 80 bytes total
2815 2011-02-12 22:36:18 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
2816 2011-02-12 22:36:51 <rlifchitz> but getwork data is 128 byte long
2817 2011-02-12 22:37:01 <ArtForz> padding
2818 2011-02-12 22:37:28 <rlifchitz> ok
2819 2011-02-12 22:37:38 <rlifchitz> but i really don't understand where is merkle root hash
2820 2011-02-12 22:37:49 <JFK911> Maybe the byte order is strange.
2821 2011-02-12 22:38:45 <rlifchitz> http://pastebin.com/ysK62zxG : look
2822 2011-02-12 22:39:17 <rlifchitz> i should be able to find merkle root hash for block 107724 (http://blockexplorer.com/b/107724)
2823 2011-02-12 22:39:24 <rlifchitz> but can't manage to find it
2824 2011-02-12 22:40:04 <ArtForz> Merkle root: f9678fed2ea90bbf1fcf913cb86af0f28630d432ff1f952e4c145d31f9243734
2825 2011-02-12 22:40:28 <ArtForz> iirc it's backwards in data
2826 2011-02-12 22:41:17 <rlifchitz> do you see it backwards?
2827 2011-02-12 22:42:10 <ArtForz> ?
2828 2011-02-12 22:42:11 * rlifchitz opens wide his eyes
2829 2011-02-12 22:42:17 <rlifchitz> i can't find it
2830 2011-02-12 22:42:23 <ArtForz> merlke root is of transactions in current block
2831 2011-02-12 22:42:51 <ArtForz> as getwork includes the gen-to-self, of course you wont see it anywhere else
2832 2011-02-12 22:43:01 <rlifchitz> ok
2833 2011-02-12 22:43:10 <rlifchitz> so this part changes all the time?
2834 2011-02-12 22:43:38 <ArtForz> it should
2835 2011-02-12 22:43:47 <rlifchitz> i see
2836 2011-02-12 22:43:56 <rlifchitz> thx
2837 2011-02-12 22:44:09 <ArtForz> well, at least when transactions are added or some other stuff happens
2838 2011-02-12 22:44:19 <rlifchitz> of course
2839 2011-02-12 22:45:37 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 1000
2840 2011-02-12 22:45:49 <andrew12> why the lag
2841 2011-02-12 22:47:27 gribble has joined
2842 2011-02-12 22:47:33 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
2843 2011-02-12 22:47:41 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 1000
2844 2011-02-12 22:47:55 <rlifchitz> gribble is out of order:)
2845 2011-02-12 22:48:10 <Asphodelia> Is there any particular reason the blocks are 50 coins per hour rather than, say, 5 coins every six minutes?
2846 2011-02-12 22:48:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107727 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1136 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 3 hours, 2 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33527.98819662
2847 2011-02-12 22:48:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 years, 28 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 40 minutes, and 44 seconds
2848 2011-02-12 22:48:18 <molecular> nope
2849 2011-02-12 22:48:51 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2850 2011-02-12 22:48:52 <molecular> Asphodelia, it's 50 btc per block. one block should be found on avg every 10 minutes
2851 2011-02-12 22:48:58 <genjix> why do banks suck major fucking cock
2852 2011-02-12 22:49:05 <molecular> first 210000 blocks are 50, half after that
2853 2011-02-12 22:49:20 <genjix> tilts the shit out of me having to spend 3 hours just to spend my own money
2854 2011-02-12 22:49:22 MrCoin has joined
2855 2011-02-12 22:49:23 <Asphodelia> Right, sorry, I knew that.
2856 2011-02-12 22:49:39 <Asphodelia> Then I should have said 50 coins per 10 minutes vs. 5 coins per minute.
2857 2011-02-12 22:49:42 nanotube has joined
2858 2011-02-12 22:49:57 <andrew12> ;;bc,calcd 1000 1
2859 2011-02-12 22:49:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 1 hour, 11 minutes, and 34 seconds
2860 2011-02-12 22:49:59 <Asphodelia> That is, why is it so chunky?
2861 2011-02-12 22:50:08 <midnightmagic_> Asphodelia: lots of time for it to propagate to the rest of the network.
2862 2011-02-12 22:50:09 <molecular> Asphodelia, good questions. it was probably a design-decision weighing network-overhead agains transaction-speed
2863 2011-02-12 22:52:32 <molecular> Asphodelia, chunky?
2864 2011-02-12 22:53:26 <Asphodelia> Large chunk size.
2865 2011-02-12 22:54:16 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2866 2011-02-12 22:54:39 <necrodearia> http://meta.witcoin.com/p/109/category-beta-testing More replies needed! More votes too!
2867 2011-02-12 22:54:52 MrCoin has joined
2868 2011-02-12 22:56:50 <genjix> necrodearia: here's the problem: bullshit one liner posts are what keeps a forum active
2869 2011-02-12 22:56:58 <genjix> nobody wants to read walls of text
2870 2011-02-12 22:57:12 <genjix> but im not going to pay to post those one liners :p
2871 2011-02-12 22:57:19 <genjix> maybe replies should be free
2872 2011-02-12 22:57:34 <Asphodelia> Also, gray on gray is ugly.
2873 2011-02-12 22:58:04 <genjix> or something like stackoverflow
2874 2011-02-12 22:58:15 <genjix> major posts cost (and can be upvoted)
2875 2011-02-12 22:58:20 <genjix> but minor posts don't.
2876 2011-02-12 22:58:21 <molecular> genjix, maybe you should talk in #witcoin?
2877 2011-02-12 22:58:34 <genjix> anyone here from the UK?
2878 2011-02-12 22:58:47 <molecular> close
2879 2011-02-12 22:59:04 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2880 2011-02-12 22:59:32 MrCoin has joined
2881 2011-02-12 23:00:16 <necrodearia> hmm
2882 2011-02-12 23:05:54 tg has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2883 2011-02-12 23:07:22 tg has joined
2884 2011-02-12 23:07:37 Asphodelia has quit (Quit: leaving)
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2888 2011-02-12 23:11:21 phantomcircuit has joined
2889 2011-02-12 23:13:01 Kiba has joined
2890 2011-02-12 23:13:18 kisom_de1 has joined
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2892 2011-02-12 23:16:57 noagendamarket has joined
2893 2011-02-12 23:20:53 <Mango-chan> are there any gpu farms
2894 2011-02-12 23:23:21 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, there are, but i don't think anyone mining bitcoins is using one.
2895 2011-02-12 23:23:26 MrCoin has joined
2896 2011-02-12 23:23:30 <Mango-chan> i mean
2897 2011-02-12 23:23:32 <Mango-chan> firepros
2898 2011-02-12 23:23:36 <Mango-chan> not teslas
2899 2011-02-12 23:23:55 cjdelisle has left (""Ping timeout: 255 seconds"")
2900 2011-02-12 23:24:07 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
2901 2011-02-12 23:26:04 nik62591 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2902 2011-02-12 23:27:58 Ljrn900 has joined
2903 2011-02-12 23:30:06 Jeroenz0r has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2904 2011-02-12 23:32:17 <Mango-chan> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/08/05/what-is-the-best-graphics-card-for-folding/4
2905 2011-02-12 23:32:18 <Mango-chan> lol
2906 2011-02-12 23:32:30 <Diablo-D3> fail
2907 2011-02-12 23:33:16 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2908 2011-02-12 23:33:22 Ljrn900 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2909 2011-02-12 23:33:42 MrCoin has joined
2910 2011-02-12 23:34:42 <Mango-chan> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)18:25 No.15898048 [Reply][Quick Reply]
2911 2011-02-12 23:34:42 <Mango-chan> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_6950_PCS_Plus_Plus/
2912 2011-02-12 23:34:42 <Mango-chan> Oh wow, Powercolor started selling a 6950 flashed to 6970 out of the box, mode 1 for 6950, mode 2 for 6970.
2913 2011-02-12 23:34:42 <Mango-chan> Apparently AMD doesn't give much of a damn, so it's basically confirmed that the flashing function+ Dual BIOS was a Xmas present.
2914 2011-02-12 23:34:45 <Mango-chan> wow
2915 2011-02-12 23:35:36 <Diablo-D3> lol
2916 2011-02-12 23:35:42 <Diablo-D3> surprised they just didnt sell them all as 6970s
2917 2011-02-12 23:36:10 <Mango-chan> PowerColor has built upon this and offers their HD 6950 PCS++ with a custom cooler, custom PCB and a BIOS preinstalled that lets you complete the unlocking progress by the flick of a little switch. With a price increase of $15 over the reference design
2918 2011-02-12 23:36:15 <Mango-chan> economics
2919 2011-02-12 23:36:18 <Mango-chan> 15$
2920 2011-02-12 23:36:19 <Mango-chan> lol
2921 2011-02-12 23:38:07 <citiz3n> anyone know if it's possible to mine with something like Bart's PE
2922 2011-02-12 23:38:17 <citiz3n> for example, you could mine off of a flash drive
2923 2011-02-12 23:38:47 <Mango-chan> i wouldn't see why not
2924 2011-02-12 23:38:58 <Mango-chan> boot on flash drive
2925 2011-02-12 23:39:02 <Mango-chan> save hdd $$
2926 2011-02-12 23:39:07 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2927 2011-02-12 23:39:10 <citiz3n> question is how to get the catalyst driver and SDK onto bart's PE
2928 2011-02-12 23:39:38 MrCoin has joined
2929 2011-02-12 23:40:38 <sipa1024> PE?
2930 2011-02-12 23:41:07 Lube has joined
2931 2011-02-12 23:41:08 <Mango-chan> some sort of windows environment
2932 2011-02-12 23:41:11 <Mango-chan> for usb drives
2933 2011-02-12 23:41:13 <Mango-chan> or something?
2934 2011-02-12 23:41:14 <Mango-chan> iirc
2935 2011-02-12 23:41:18 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
2936 2011-02-12 23:41:42 <sipa1024> why windows?
2937 2011-02-12 23:41:49 <sipa1024> if it's just for mining
2938 2011-02-12 23:42:40 <Mango-chan> less hassle
2939 2011-02-12 23:42:51 <sipa1024> not for getting it run from a flash drive :)
2940 2011-02-12 23:43:07 <RBecker> Hm, just overclocked, wonder what my khash/s rate is now
2941 2011-02-12 23:43:41 <sipa1024> what hw/miner?
2942 2011-02-12 23:43:45 sipa1024 is now known as sipa
2943 2011-02-12 23:43:55 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2944 2011-02-12 23:44:17 <RBecker> sipa, windows exe off bitcoin's site, AMD Phenom II x4 955, stock clock 3.2GHz, OC to 3.8GHz
2945 2011-02-12 23:44:24 MrCoin has joined
2946 2011-02-12 23:44:50 <RBecker> well, not the exe but the zip
2947 2011-02-12 23:44:52 <sipa> you see the hashing rate in the gui's window
2948 2011-02-12 23:44:55 <sipa> no?
2949 2011-02-12 23:45:16 <RBecker> sipa, yes, you do
2950 2011-02-12 23:45:19 <RBecker> It's not running yet tho
2951 2011-02-12 23:45:45 * RBecker starts it up
2952 2011-02-12 23:46:30 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6925
2953 2011-02-12 23:46:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6925 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 26 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 56 minutes, and 34 seconds
2954 2011-02-12 23:46:33 <RBecker> hm
2955 2011-02-12 23:46:39 <RBecker> I use the GPU miner too
2956 2011-02-12 23:46:49 <RBecker> the python miner
2957 2011-02-12 23:46:58 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc 830000
2958 2011-02-12 23:46:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 830000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 day, 13 hours, 22 minutes, and 10 seconds
2959 2011-02-12 23:47:14 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc 36000000
2960 2011-02-12 23:47:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 36000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 51 minutes and 41 seconds
2961 2011-02-12 23:47:55 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2962 2011-02-12 23:48:07 <Lube> How much power do you guys have in your mining rigs?
2963 2011-02-12 23:52:29 wumpus has quit (No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2964 2011-02-12 23:54:26 wumpus has joined
2965 2011-02-12 23:54:49 <sipa> dissipate_: the difficulty increases are exactly what cause the 1 block/10 minutes average rate to be maintained
2966 2011-02-12 23:55:22 <dissipate_> sipa, but in between those increases, more than 1 block/10 minutes average could be happening
2967 2011-02-12 23:55:48 <sipa> of course
2968 2011-02-12 23:55:48 MrCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2969 2011-02-12 23:55:53 <sipa> it's only approximate
2970 2011-02-12 23:56:22 <dissipate_> i guess what i'm getting at is if a ton of mining power went online, you could be getting 1 block per second
2971 2011-02-12 23:56:34 <dissipate_> before the next increase
2972 2011-02-12 23:56:52 <Mango-chan> the next increase happens
2973 2011-02-12 23:56:53 <sipa> that'd require a sudden 600-fold increase in power
2974 2011-02-12 23:57:04 <Mango-chan> when 2k or so blocks are produced
2975 2011-02-12 23:57:07 <Mango-chan> or ever 2k or so blocks
2976 2011-02-12 23:57:10 <Mango-chan> so if that happened
2977 2011-02-12 23:57:17 <Mango-chan> it'd only be for 2000~ blocks max
2978 2011-02-12 23:57:20 <sipa> indeed
2979 2011-02-12 23:57:23 <Mango-chan> and then difficulty will adjust
2980 2011-02-12 23:57:28 <luke-jr> ROFL
2981 2011-02-12 23:57:30 <Mango-chan> and we're back to normal
2982 2011-02-12 23:57:44 <luke-jr> after 6 days of mining with no success at 265 MH/sâ¦
2983 2011-02-12 23:57:47 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
2984 2011-02-12 23:57:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 38 seconds
2985 2011-02-12 23:57:54 <Mango-chan> luke-jr how about you use a pool
2986 2011-02-12 23:57:55 <luke-jr> I finally get 2 blocks within 3 hours
2987 2011-02-12 23:57:56 <midnightmagic_> so, 2000 seconds or so, the difficulty will adjust, and everyone will be sitting here assuming the block chain was unreliable.
2988 2011-02-12 23:58:10 MrCoin has joined
2989 2011-02-12 23:58:17 <luke-jr> Mango-chan: pools have too much overhead
2990 2011-02-12 23:58:33 <midnightmagic_> that would mean that someone had >50% of the strength of the total network, and there could be no trust in the network at that point.
2991 2011-02-12 23:58:48 <midnightmagic_> mean => imply
2992 2011-02-12 23:58:54 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc
2993 2011-02-12 23:58:55 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
2994 2011-02-12 23:58:59 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
2995 2011-02-12 23:59:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107733 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1130 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 2 hours, 54 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33392.95551909
2996 2011-02-12 23:59:15 <Mango-chan> so in theory the network is pretty easy to take over if someone dumped like 500k~
2997 2011-02-12 23:59:19 <Mango-chan> in usd
2998 2011-02-12 23:59:43 <luke-jr> molecular: did you get my comment earlier?
2999 2011-02-12 23:59:53 <luke-jr> Mango-chan: today, maybe.