1 2011-02-14 00:00:21 * bk128 hates mail in rebates
   2 2011-02-14 00:00:25 <sethsethseth> genjix wat happened to the poker project
   3 2011-02-14 00:00:26 Quip_ has joined
   4 2011-02-14 00:01:29 <genjix> sethsethseth: working on building bitcoin infrastructure + exchanges first
   5 2011-02-14 00:01:35 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
   6 2011-02-14 00:01:59 <genjix> i was hoping poker players would be able to push it, but it doesn't seem so
   7 2011-02-14 00:01:59 <Necr0s> That would be a good thing.
   8 2011-02-14 00:02:04 <sethsethseth> sounds good.  the project wont go anywhere without bitcoin
   9 2011-02-14 00:02:08 <genjix> so I'm taking a different strategy
  10 2011-02-14 00:02:44 <genjix> (poker players are very skeptical of 'free' things and community ideals .etc)
  11 2011-02-14 00:03:17 <sethsethseth> i thought there was some good discussion about open source, some people had valid concerns
  12 2011-02-14 00:03:17 echelon has joined
  13 2011-02-14 00:03:29 <sethsethseth> on 2p2
  14 2011-02-14 00:03:44 <genjix> sethsethseth: well jchysk consulted lawyers
  15 2011-02-14 00:04:00 <genjix> and he was originally going to bankroll the project using his US based company
  16 2011-02-14 00:04:12 <sethsethseth> orly?  wow
  17 2011-02-14 00:04:13 <genjix> the lawyers said it was a no no, so he withdrew
  18 2011-02-14 00:04:45 <sethsethseth> oh tahts too bad.  how much $ was he going to  put into it?
  19 2011-02-14 00:04:51 <genjix> that makes things hard for me... so I posted my work and asked on liquidpoker
  20 2011-02-14 00:04:55 MacRohard has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  21 2011-02-14 00:05:03 <dirtyfil1hy> i've been to that free bitcoin poker site a few times, but there's never anybody to play with
  22 2011-02-14 00:05:07 <genjix> idk, but he was going to handle everything for me to allow me to focus on tech
  23 2011-02-14 00:05:27 <genjix> sethsethseth: anyway I posted my work and everyone tore me apart... said it was bullshit .etc
  24 2011-02-14 00:05:27 <sethsethseth> ya, you cant just sit there and work for free
  25 2011-02-14 00:05:35 <genjix> no i dont mind working for free
  26 2011-02-14 00:05:52 <genjix> but some things to help the project push forwards need funding
  27 2011-02-14 00:06:17 <sethsethseth> like what
  28 2011-02-14 00:06:53 purpleposeidon has quit (Quit: -)
  29 2011-02-14 00:06:59 purpleposeidon has joined
  30 2011-02-14 00:07:13 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
  31 2011-02-14 00:07:37 <jgarzik> anybody with PPUSD, looking for mtgox-USD or BTC?  Offering 1:1 MTGUSD/PPUSD (you pay PP fees), or best mtgox ask price for BTC (you pay PP fees)
  32 2011-02-14 00:07:37 <genjix> it's small things like presenting the idea at conferences
  33 2011-02-14 00:08:01 ducki2p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  34 2011-02-14 00:08:36 <genjix> or paying an admin
  35 2011-02-14 00:11:23 <genjix> jgarzik: did you try the -otc? maybe poke nano or doubc
  36 2011-02-14 00:11:42 <genjix> double c
  37 2011-02-14 00:11:48 theadmin has joined
  38 2011-02-14 00:11:49 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
  39 2011-02-14 00:12:00 <theadmin> ati sucks cocks in hell as always
  40 2011-02-14 00:12:12 <sethsethseth> ahh, seems like if you can just get something sorta functional up that could actually run a game, people will all get on board
  41 2011-02-14 00:14:21 <theadmin> how to see if KMS is enabled currently?  and how disable it?
  42 2011-02-14 00:14:37 <genjix> don't think so. i asked for the funding and everybody called me a scammer and my code shit.
  43 2011-02-14 00:15:16 <sethsethseth> can you point me to that thread please?
  44 2011-02-14 00:15:33 <genjix> sure
  45 2011-02-14 00:16:59 <genjix> sethsethseth: http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/946165/Funding_for_rake-free_community_room.html ... 2+2 shut down my thread there
  46 2011-02-14 00:17:22 <genjix> I kind of gave up hope there, figured I have to do this in free software circles not with poker players
  47 2011-02-14 00:17:24 ducki2p has joined
  48 2011-02-14 00:17:45 <sethsethseth> ya, 2p2 hates linking, you can make an open source discussion, just dont link anything yourself
  49 2011-02-14 00:18:13 Mr_Coin has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
  50 2011-02-14 00:18:14 Quip_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  51 2011-02-14 00:19:46 <nanotube> genjix: how about a thread on bitcoin forums? i know there are quite a few poker players in the community...
  52 2011-02-14 00:20:00 <genjix> it just gets a bit boring restating the obvious
  53 2011-02-14 00:20:11 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
  54 2011-02-14 00:22:36 <genjix> nanotube: not sure if bitcoiners would care too much :p
  55 2011-02-14 00:22:56 <genjix> (hackers/poor) eventhough there's a handful of poker players
  56 2011-02-14 00:23:17 hello has joined
  57 2011-02-14 00:23:35 Cusipzzz has joined
  58 2011-02-14 00:24:22 <theadmin> genjix: for what project?
  59 2011-02-14 00:25:13 <genjix> free-software poker & a poker room run by it's community (chooses games, rake, ...)
  60 2011-02-14 00:25:20 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
  61 2011-02-14 00:25:26 <genjix> the software is sold to support the poker room
  62 2011-02-14 00:25:36 <genjix> (keep it rake-free)
  63 2011-02-14 00:25:47 <genjix> http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/
  64 2011-02-14 00:26:04 <nanotube> genjix: doesn't hurt to try
  65 2011-02-14 00:26:07 <genjix> http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/wiki/index.php?title=Funding
  66 2011-02-14 00:26:08 <theadmin> po po po po po
  67 2011-02-14 00:26:10 <theadmin> po po po
  68 2011-02-14 00:26:11 <theadmin> ker face
  69 2011-02-14 00:26:13 <genjix> i see it
  70 2011-02-14 00:26:15 EvanR_ has joined
  71 2011-02-14 00:26:46 hello has quit (Client Quit)
  72 2011-02-14 00:28:32 <genjix> nanotube: well i decided i'll just fund it myself... work on getting bitcoin good (client, exchanges, main website), then the poker room & hopefully expand into creating episodal video games again (my old work) as indy for bitcoins :p
  73 2011-02-14 00:28:49 <nanotube> genjix: why so much cash up front? start small. 24 servers, 60k users... just start with 1 server and see how it goes.
  74 2011-02-14 00:28:58 <nanotube> 60k newspaper advert...
  75 2011-02-14 00:29:03 <genjix> nooo
  76 2011-02-14 00:29:14 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  77 2011-02-14 00:29:18 <genjix> that's not the funds needed
  78 2011-02-14 00:29:30 <genjix> that's what a normal site would cost to operate
  79 2011-02-14 00:29:42 <theadmin> so, ati sucking an epic dong
  80 2011-02-14 00:29:48 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
  81 2011-02-14 00:29:49 <genjix> $4k would be adequate starting cost... but it doesn't matter, I'll do it myself
  82 2011-02-14 00:29:54 <theadmin> any idea what else to try to stop it from freezing the computer all the time?
  83 2011-02-14 00:30:12 <nanotube> genjix: ok... i'm no poker player... but i wish you well in your project. :)
  84 2011-02-14 00:30:15 <genjix> magic it into an NVIDIA
  85 2011-02-14 00:30:22 <genjix> thanks
  86 2011-02-14 00:30:24 <theadmin> genjix: hm?
  87 2011-02-14 00:30:34 <genjix> bitcoin is amazing really
  88 2011-02-14 00:30:39 <genjix> endless possibilities :p
  89 2011-02-14 00:31:37 <genjix> sethsethseth: did you see bitcoin was on TV? and it recently hit parity with US$ & was on slashdot.org (main page went down from the traffic)
  90 2011-02-14 00:33:53 <theadmin> 5 BTC to who ever tells me   1) why ati developers all suck such an epic dong    2)  how to successfully stop my ubuntu 2 disaplay radeon desktop+mining box from freezing each 1-2 days on mouse movement (usually mouse cursor jumps to bottom or top of either display and shakes there and graphical display is frozen untill restart /system overall appears to work, e.g. ssh etc/)
  91 2011-02-14 00:34:11 <theadmin> 5 btc for 1) and 2)
  92 2011-02-14 00:34:20 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
  93 2011-02-14 00:34:45 <genjix> 1) because ati developers are engineers not hackers
  94 2011-02-14 00:34:47 <nanotube> 1) because they figure nvidia is no competition, so they might as well relax and suck some dong
  95 2011-02-14 00:34:57 <nanotube> that'll be 2.5 btc please. :)
  96 2011-02-14 00:35:10 <theadmin> if (_1 && _2) pay();
  97 2011-02-14 00:35:15 <nanotube> 2) check temperature
  98 2011-02-14 00:35:19 <nanotube> if you're mining, maybe it's overheating
  99 2011-02-14 00:35:20 <theadmin> nanotube: nope
 100 2011-02-14 00:35:37 <theadmin> nah its not that. doing it an all temps.  2 displays are the trigger, not temp
 101 2011-02-14 00:35:57 <genjix> ohh i heard about that in ubuntu
 102 2011-02-14 00:35:58 <theadmin> idea
 103 2011-02-14 00:36:00 <genjix> appears to be a bug
 104 2011-02-14 00:36:07 <genjix> multiple screens with ati
 105 2011-02-14 00:36:09 <theadmin> genjix: how ubuntu matters??
 106 2011-02-14 00:36:09 <genjix> google it
 107 2011-02-14 00:36:21 <genjix> (i saw it for ubuntu)
 108 2011-02-14 00:36:22 <theadmin> I use amd's fglrx  and amd's stream sdk
 109 2011-02-14 00:36:31 <nanotube> theadmin: how to successfully stop my ubuntu 2 disaplay radeon desktop+mining box from freezing each 1-2 days on mouse movement (usually mouse cursor jumps to bottom or top of either display and shakes there and graphical display is frozen untill restart /system overall appears to work, e.g. ssh etc/) <-- unhook one display.
 110 2011-02-14 00:36:34 <theadmin> idea: lets all petition AMD to stop this fucking shit
 111 2011-02-14 00:36:35 <nanotube> theadmin: that'll be 5 btc please
 112 2011-02-14 00:36:51 <nanotube> heh
 113 2011-02-14 00:36:57 <theadmin> nanotube: heh ;)
 114 2011-02-14 00:37:18 <theadmin> nanotube: sure, if you will tell me your btc address
 115 2011-02-14 00:37:21 <theadmin> (dont get your hopes up)
 116 2011-02-14 00:37:32 <nanotube> send it to the bot as ,,botsnack
 117 2011-02-14 00:37:32 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
 118 2011-02-14 00:37:34 <nanotube> :)
 119 2011-02-14 00:37:54 <theadmin> ok but that is writting.  I written "tell me", mister literal ;)
 120 2011-02-14 00:38:01 <theadmin> anyway. so, petition amd??
 121 2011-02-14 00:38:12 <nanotube> i did tell you. you just didn't hear cuz you're too far away. :P
 122 2011-02-14 00:38:13 <theadmin> can't they controll this slackers from Ati
 123 2011-02-14 00:38:19 <nanotube> so i figured i'd type it as well.
 124 2011-02-14 00:38:20 <nanotube> hah
 125 2011-02-14 00:38:34 <theadmin> seriosuly guys
 126 2011-02-14 00:38:41 <nanotube> haha ok sorry
 127 2011-02-14 00:38:44 <theadmin> lets say 20 petitions from all bitcoin heavy users and developers
 128 2011-02-14 00:38:48 <theadmin> and the others would join
 129 2011-02-14 00:38:50 <theadmin> e.g. 20 emails
 130 2011-02-14 00:39:07 <theadmin> perhaps they need reminder there are lots of users that count on good linux quality drivers
 131 2011-02-14 00:40:05 <theadmin> this ati crap is frustrating :<
 132 2011-02-14 00:40:45 theadmin has left ("fuck ati")
 133 2011-02-14 00:42:12 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 134 2011-02-14 00:45:56 <presence> ati has horrible horrendous useless bloated broken and ultra-shitty drivers :D
 135 2011-02-14 00:47:11 <Necr0s> Their win7 drivers seem to work ok for me.
 136 2011-02-14 00:47:18 <Necr0s> I agree 100% about the bloat tho.
 137 2011-02-14 00:48:28 <presence> I might have to cut a hole out of the side of this linux box to help cool
 138 2011-02-14 00:48:37 <presence> its an older case that only has 80mm fans
 139 2011-02-14 00:50:08 <afed> wow presence tell us how you relaly feel
 140 2011-02-14 00:50:19 dishwara has joined
 141 2011-02-14 00:50:36 <presence> Im trying to be very brief.
 142 2011-02-14 00:51:01 <presence> in short, ati pisses down your back and tells you its raining.
 143 2011-02-14 00:51:53 <CIA-63> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rfe6c387 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Updated to lwjgl 2.7.1, updated Copyright, fixed whitespace - http://bit.ly/fnLcof
 144 2011-02-14 00:52:44 <presence> I have never found a more wretched hive of bloat and idiocy.
 145 2011-02-14 00:53:46 <dishwara> Please cast ur vote at http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3439.0
 146 2011-02-14 00:54:19 dishwara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 147 2011-02-14 00:54:20 <presence> for?
 148 2011-02-14 00:54:22 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
 149 2011-02-14 00:54:36 <sethsethseth> 0 votes? wtf
 150 2011-02-14 00:54:46 dishwara has joined
 151 2011-02-14 00:56:56 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin day?
 152 2011-02-14 00:56:57 <Diablo-D3> I can dig it
 153 2011-02-14 00:57:07 <Diablo-D3> but that means I missed bitcoin day this year :<
 154 2011-02-14 00:57:10 <Diablo-D3> wait, jesus fuck?
 155 2011-02-14 00:57:14 <Diablo-D3> jan 3rd 2009?
 156 2011-02-14 00:57:26 <Diablo-D3> hahaha shit I found bitcoin about 3 months after it was made public
 157 2011-02-14 00:57:29 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 158 2011-02-14 00:59:29 <noagendamarket> is that different to a hyundai ?
 159 2011-02-14 00:59:36 <dishwara> we all missed this year
 160 2011-02-14 01:00:14 <dishwara> may be next year on that day, it will be 1BTC=10USD
 161 2011-02-14 01:00:16 * Diablo-D3 is a very early adopter
 162 2011-02-14 01:00:16 <Diablo-D3> heee
 163 2011-02-14 01:01:30 <davex___> lucky bastard
 164 2011-02-14 01:02:39 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
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 170 2011-02-14 01:07:48 <lolcat> Evil! Why is the price still increasing?
 171 2011-02-14 01:08:26 <sethsethseth> http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/mtgox/
 172 2011-02-14 01:08:31 jwalck has joined
 173 2011-02-14 01:08:37 <sethsethseth> this chart is not working in firefox, any ideas?
 174 2011-02-14 01:09:31 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 175 2011-02-14 01:12:28 <lolcat> sethsethseth: Works in chromium
 176 2011-02-14 01:12:50 <sethsethseth> ahh only chrome
 177 2011-02-14 01:12:52 <sethsethseth> i see
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 179 2011-02-14 01:14:04 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
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 183 2011-02-14 01:19:37 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
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 185 2011-02-14 01:32:51 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
 186 2011-02-14 01:35:07 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 187 2011-02-14 01:36:07 xelister has joined
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 189 2011-02-14 01:36:07 xelister has joined
 190 2011-02-14 01:37:37 <xelister> Ubuntu is full of shite
 191 2011-02-14 01:37:41 <xelister> part #512
 192 2011-02-14 01:38:09 <xelister> last time we noted how ubuntu is gay about volume meter and sound controll showing gay animation == 5 second lag before reaction to volume down key
 193 2011-02-14 01:38:24 <xelister> now they changed that to animation that is fasste and bo lag \o/
 194 2011-02-14 01:38:30 docl has quit (Changing host)
 195 2011-02-14 01:38:30 docl has joined
 196 2011-02-14 01:38:36 <xelister> and after reboot.. neither old nor new controlls work. sigh.
 197 2011-02-14 01:38:39 Lachesis has joined
 198 2011-02-14 01:38:43 <genjix> xelister: ? works fine for me
 199 2011-02-14 01:38:58 <genjix> binds directly to the XFree86IncreaseVolume key
 200 2011-02-14 01:39:11 <Diablo-D3> what did he do now
 201 2011-02-14 01:39:42 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
 202 2011-02-14 01:45:48 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 203 2011-02-14 01:48:16 <andrew12> methinks http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/ is still better than bitcoin.it
 204 2011-02-14 01:50:32 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
 205 2011-02-14 01:52:32 amwt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 206 2011-02-14 01:52:46 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 207 2011-02-14 01:55:33 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 208 2011-02-14 01:57:19 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 209 2011-02-14 01:57:31 <andrew12> noagendamarket: you around?
 210 2011-02-14 01:57:58 sabalabas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 211 2011-02-14 01:58:14 <noagendamarket> yes andrew12
 212 2011-02-14 01:58:24 <andrew12> noagendamarket: I can't get into #bitcoind
 213 2011-02-14 01:58:56 sabalaba has joined
 214 2011-02-14 02:00:03 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
 215 2011-02-14 02:00:07 MacRohard has joined
 216 2011-02-14 02:00:11 <noagendamarket> andrew12  we are using it for the operating staff of the project.
 217 2011-02-14 02:00:42 <andrew12> noagendamarket: oh, so there is no irc channel anymore?
 218 2011-02-14 02:01:15 prax has joined
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 220 2011-02-14 02:01:52 RBecker is now known as RBecker|Detached
 221 2011-02-14 02:03:09 RBecker is now known as Detached!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|RBecker
 222 2011-02-14 02:03:47 <presence> whats the quickest way to configure linux ati?
 223 2011-02-14 02:03:51 <presence> aticonfig --what
 224 2011-02-14 02:04:03 <noagendamarket> andrew12  its gone dark ;)
 225 2011-02-14 02:04:32 altamic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 226 2011-02-14 02:04:33 <tcatm> presence: aticonfig --adapter=all --initial --force
 227 2011-02-14 02:04:51 altamic has joined
 228 2011-02-14 02:04:51 altamic has quit (Changing host)
 229 2011-02-14 02:04:51 altamic has joined
 230 2011-02-14 02:04:56 <andrew12> noagendamarket: so how am i supposed to invest anything?
 231 2011-02-14 02:05:29 <davex___> anyone ever has "aticonfig --odgc --adapter=all" report "Get clocks failed for Adapter 0"
 232 2011-02-14 02:06:27 <noagendamarket> andrew12 we had enough interest just from the operators not to go outside that
 233 2011-02-14 02:06:32 <davex___> and, aticonfig --odgt --adapter=all seems to just hang
 234 2011-02-14 02:06:55 sethsethseth has left ()
 235 2011-02-14 02:07:03 <presence> damnit it hosed my video
 236 2011-02-14 02:07:09 <presence> I cant even get it to close x
 237 2011-02-14 02:07:11 <presence> or reboot
 238 2011-02-14 02:07:22 <presence> and of course ghey ubuntu wont let me remote ssh in
 239 2011-02-14 02:08:05 <davex___> probably have conflicting drivers
 240 2011-02-14 02:08:53 <presence> it had no special drivers before
 241 2011-02-14 02:08:56 <presence> but who knows
 242 2011-02-14 02:09:11 <presence> you would think I could just ctrl-alt-backspace to kill it though
 243 2011-02-14 02:09:17 <presence> or ctrl-alt-f1
 244 2011-02-14 02:09:19 <presence> but noooo
 245 2011-02-14 02:09:20 <davex___> yeah would be nice
 246 2011-02-14 02:09:57 <presence> if I have to reinstall to fix this Im installing freebsd
 247 2011-02-14 02:16:19 <Validus> did you add ssh into your iptables?
 248 2011-02-14 02:16:41 <Validus> use ctrl+alt+f2 to switch to a new terminal
 249 2011-02-14 02:17:05 <Validus> f7 will return to your 1st console and go back to xwin
 250 2011-02-14 02:17:17 <Validus> ctrl+alt+f7
 251 2011-02-14 02:17:28 <presence> hmm
 252 2011-02-14 02:17:30 <bitcoiner> will a 5770 fit on a slot where a 4350 is ?
 253 2011-02-14 02:17:35 <presence> crtl-alt-nothing works
 254 2011-02-14 02:17:37 <presence> its hosed
 255 2011-02-14 02:17:43 <presence> I have sshd working now
 256 2011-02-14 02:18:05 <presence> but aticonfig --adapter=all --initial --force didnt help
 257 2011-02-14 02:18:05 <Validus> usually iptables blocks half the stuff for it. but ctrl+alt+f2-6 should let you goto a new terminal
 258 2011-02-14 02:18:47 <Diablo-D3> what did you break now?
 259 2011-02-14 02:19:01 <Diablo-D3> did you lock X up and cant ssh in?
 260 2011-02-14 02:19:04 <presence> when x loads my display no longer works
 261 2011-02-14 02:19:14 <presence> nah, I forced grub to boot into a shell
 262 2011-02-14 02:19:19 <Validus> hit ctrl+alt+f2
 263 2011-02-14 02:19:23 <presence> so I have access...but x is hosed
 264 2011-02-14 02:19:26 <Validus> itll work i locked up xwindows many times
 265 2011-02-14 02:19:27 <presence> dude, I know linux
 266 2011-02-14 02:19:33 <presence> ctrl-alt-x doesnt work
 267 2011-02-14 02:19:37 <Diablo-D3> btw, if you ever lock X up and cant ssh in, press alt-sysrq s, u, and b
 268 2011-02-14 02:19:45 <Diablo-D3> it'll sync, unmount, and reboot
 269 2011-02-14 02:19:46 <presence> ctrl-alt-backspace does nothing
 270 2011-02-14 02:19:59 <Diablo-D3> btw, c-a-bs has been turned off in X by default
 271 2011-02-14 02:20:01 <presence> x hoses the display and never recovers
 272 2011-02-14 02:20:04 <Diablo-D3> if you want it, turn it back on in your xorg.conf
 273 2011-02-14 02:20:28 <Validus> so when i ws running mint and my x got screwed up in a config i guess i imagined everything when i switched to a terminal. stopped the gmd and fixed it
 274 2011-02-14 02:20:32 <Validus> gdm*
 275 2011-02-14 02:20:42 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
 276 2011-02-14 02:21:00 <Diablo-D3> Validus: mint probably turned it back on by default
 277 2011-02-14 02:21:08 <Diablo-D3> this obviously doesnt effect switching vts
 278 2011-02-14 02:21:10 <Diablo-D3> just killing X
 279 2011-02-14 02:21:22 <Validus> x should never lock u outa your system
 280 2011-02-14 02:21:29 <Validus> unless thats some weird ubuntu perk
 281 2011-02-14 02:21:31 <Validus> lol
 282 2011-02-14 02:21:34 <Diablo-D3> if X kernel panics, it should
 283 2011-02-14 02:21:38 <Diablo-D3> since, you know, the kernel paniced
 284 2011-02-14 02:22:29 <presence> doesnt --initial pull all previous crap out of xorg.conf?
 285 2011-02-14 02:22:47 <presence> I am an X11R4,5 guy...havent done much xorg, looks very similar
 286 2011-02-14 02:23:29 <Validus> and ive noticed alot of the time with ssh and remote services even after enabling its still blocked by iptables. thats why i mentioned that
 287 2011-02-14 02:23:31 <Diablo-D3> xorg.conf format hasnt changed in all these years
 288 2011-02-14 02:24:04 <Diablo-D3> presence: and yeah, --initial --devices=all should always work correctly
 289 2011-02-14 02:24:40 <presence> weird, it hoses my video, but no X is reunning
 290 2011-02-14 02:25:56 <Diablo-D3> control-alt-f1 doesnt work?
 291 2011-02-14 02:26:19 <presence> no...
 292 2011-02-14 02:26:22 <Diablo-D3> huh weird
 293 2011-02-14 02:26:23 <presence> yet the system did not panic
 294 2011-02-14 02:26:26 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if KMS wnet insane
 295 2011-02-14 02:26:34 <Diablo-D3> Ive rarely seen this outside of KMS
 296 2011-02-14 02:27:47 <presence> I did load the 10.11 driver and compiled the sdk 2.1
 297 2011-02-14 02:28:12 <Diablo-D3> you dont need to compile anything in the sdk
 298 2011-02-14 02:28:23 <Diablo-D3> also, how did you install 10.11?
 299 2011-02-14 02:28:29 <Diablo-D3> you should NEVER use ati's installer
 300 2011-02-14 02:28:39 <Validus> *shudders*
 301 2011-02-14 02:28:43 <Validus> i member when i did that on debian
 302 2011-02-14 02:28:44 <Validus> never again
 303 2011-02-14 02:28:48 <Diablo-D3> yeeeaaaahh
 304 2011-02-14 02:28:50 <Diablo-D3> its ugly
 305 2011-02-14 02:28:53 <Validus> horrible
 306 2011-02-14 02:28:58 <Diablo-D3> and debian packages new drivers in experimental anyhow
 307 2011-02-14 02:29:02 <Diablo-D3> comes out like a week after amd ships
 308 2011-02-14 02:29:15 <presence> I downloaded and installed their binaries
 309 2011-02-14 02:29:17 <presence> hell
 310 2011-02-14 02:29:21 <Validus> linux turned me off on an ati card almost completely in full
 311 2011-02-14 02:29:28 <presence> so what do I need to install
 312 2011-02-14 02:29:34 <presence> do I need to compile from source?
 313 2011-02-14 02:29:39 <Validus> 40 hrs of work to finally get gpu accelleartion in HD
 314 2011-02-14 02:30:21 <Validus> if your in ubuntu it hsould auto load their restricted driver
 315 2011-02-14 02:30:25 <Diablo-D3> presence: you need to install official ubuntu packages for the driver.
 316 2011-02-14 02:30:26 <Validus> or ask you to
 317 2011-02-14 02:30:31 <Diablo-D3> I _really_ recommend you dont use ubuntu. at all.
 318 2011-02-14 02:30:36 <Validus> i hate crapbuntu
 319 2011-02-14 02:30:46 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu is african for shit
 320 2011-02-14 02:30:48 <Validus> if you wanna use ubuntu style get mint. it at least works 90% of the time
 321 2011-02-14 02:30:54 <presence> dont tell me that you like fedora
 322 2011-02-14 02:30:55 <Validus> Diablo-D3: i say that all the time LOL
 323 2011-02-14 02:30:57 <Diablo-D3> heh, Ive used debian for over a decade.
 324 2011-02-14 02:31:03 <Diablo-D3> Im not switching.
 325 2011-02-14 02:31:10 <presence> Im a slackware guy, I dont really care which distribution I need to use
 326 2011-02-14 02:31:25 <Validus> salix wasnt bad. but it was a lil odd
 327 2011-02-14 02:31:28 <Validus> and it has slapt-get
 328 2011-02-14 02:31:38 <Validus> basically slackware with repositories
 329 2011-02-14 02:31:53 <Diablo-D3> heh that sounds dumb
 330 2011-02-14 02:31:56 <Validus> its odd
 331 2011-02-14 02:31:59 <Diablo-D3> I wanna switch to alpine at some point
 332 2011-02-14 02:32:03 <Diablo-D3> but its not ready yet
 333 2011-02-14 02:32:09 <Validus> i have haiku around here somewhere but i never installed it
 334 2011-02-14 02:32:14 <presence> awesome, no uninstall from ati
 335 2011-02-14 02:32:23 <Diablo-D3> theres an uninstall
 336 2011-02-14 02:32:27 <Diablo-D3> but I forget where it is
 337 2011-02-14 02:32:43 <Diablo-D3> presence: cd /usr; find | grep uninstall
 338 2011-02-14 02:32:53 <Diablo-D3> there should be a script named like uninstall.sh or some shit
 339 2011-02-14 02:33:19 <Diablo-D3> and after you run that, apt-get install --reinstall all the fglrx packages
 340 2011-02-14 02:33:27 <Diablo-D3> and then after thats done, switch to debian.
 341 2011-02-14 02:33:31 <Validus> lol
 342 2011-02-14 02:33:58 <Validus> debian saved me when i had a pc blowout
 343 2011-02-14 02:34:04 <presence> I worked on debian with dbale garby for quite a while
 344 2011-02-14 02:34:15 <presence> I thought it was abandonware now
 345 2011-02-14 02:34:33 <Diablo-D3> you fail linux forever
 346 2011-02-14 02:34:44 <Validus> your a slack guy and think debian is abandoned?
 347 2011-02-14 02:34:49 <Validus> im so confused
 348 2011-02-14 02:34:52 <presence> slack is gone
 349 2011-02-14 02:34:56 <presence> so is SLS
 350 2011-02-14 02:35:02 <Validus> slack is gone?
 351 2011-02-14 02:35:05 <presence> and fedora is absolute dogshit
 352 2011-02-14 02:35:15 <Diablo-D3> presence: and his last name is spelled garbee
 353 2011-02-14 02:35:30 <presence> I worked with him at HP
 354 2011-02-14 02:35:32 <Validus> my first linux distro was slackware 7.0 heh
 355 2011-02-14 02:36:10 <Diablo-D3> isnt he the president of SPI now?
 356 2011-02-14 02:36:12 <Validus> wel the first one i learned on
 357 2011-02-14 02:36:20 <presence> I dont know, when hp/agilent split we lost contact
 358 2011-02-14 02:36:26 <presence> I went to agilent he stayed with hp
 359 2011-02-14 02:36:44 <Diablo-D3> wikipedia says Im right, and hes also the linux cto @ hp
 360 2011-02-14 02:37:08 <presence> he was just our chief scientist of labs when I was there
 361 2011-02-14 02:37:30 <presence> hes a smart guy
 362 2011-02-14 02:37:38 <Diablo-D3> yeah
 363 2011-02-14 02:37:42 <Diablo-D3> but no, debian is far from dead
 364 2011-02-14 02:37:43 <presence> Im surpised he stayed after they killed off all the kernel devs
 365 2011-02-14 02:37:49 <presence> of course hpux is the suck
 366 2011-02-14 02:37:54 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu cant seem to kill debian no matter how much absolute shit they push into debian
 367 2011-02-14 02:38:00 <Diablo-D3> this is partly why I wanna switch to alpine
 368 2011-02-14 02:38:13 <presence> I havent played with alpine at all
 369 2011-02-14 02:38:17 <Diablo-D3> alpine is basically the debian way of thinking, but without all the fucking ubuntu faggotry
 370 2011-02-14 02:38:30 <Diablo-D3> its almost not linux at all
 371 2011-02-14 02:38:34 <presence> I did BSD for a while...until it was mostly abandoned by devs (moving to linux)
 372 2011-02-14 02:38:54 <Diablo-D3> it uses uclibc and busybox, for example
 373 2011-02-14 02:39:29 <Diablo-D3> ships kernels with pax and ssp by default too
 374 2011-02-14 02:39:46 <newsham> tell us what you really think of ubuntu, diablo
 375 2011-02-14 02:39:52 <newsham> enough of the sugar coating
 376 2011-02-14 02:40:00 <Diablo-D3> newsham: heh
 377 2011-02-14 02:40:04 <presence> haha
 378 2011-02-14 02:40:09 <presence> ubuntu works
 379 2011-02-14 02:40:10 <Diablo-D3> I will do anything in my power to destroy microsoft linux.
 380 2011-02-14 02:40:13 <presence> Im not saying I love it
 381 2011-02-14 02:40:20 <presence> but its better than fedora
 382 2011-02-14 02:40:22 lzd_hz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 383 2011-02-14 02:40:51 <newsham> *shrug* i used to use rh then fedora, then it really sucked, then i stopped using it, and then recently i had to install fedora for client work (their std platform) and it wasnt half bad
 384 2011-02-14 02:40:56 <newsham> much better than the fedora that made me give it up
 385 2011-02-14 02:41:06 <presence> I use it for gov crap
 386 2011-02-14 02:41:07 <newsham> nothing as constant as change
 387 2011-02-14 02:41:08 <newsham> and C
 388 2011-02-14 02:41:12 <newsham> C is always so constant
 389 2011-02-14 02:41:14 <presence> and although I like yum, thats ALL I like about it
 390 2011-02-14 02:41:20 <Diablo-D3> fedora is actually quite good now
 391 2011-02-14 02:41:23 <Diablo-D3> I still hate rpm though
 392 2011-02-14 02:41:32 <newsham> C*exp(-t*alpha)
 393 2011-02-14 02:41:40 <Validus> compiling trumps all packages
 394 2011-02-14 02:41:56 <newsham> validus must have a raging boner for gentoo!
 395 2011-02-14 02:41:59 <Diablo-D3> presence: yum itself is not really any different than apt-get in usage
 396 2011-02-14 02:42:04 <da2ce7> hey, anyone good at cypto want to have a decussion with me?  I'm trying to work out if an idea is possible.
 397 2011-02-14 02:42:09 <Validus> no i like options and not predetermined things
 398 2011-02-14 02:42:20 <Diablo-D3> presence: what bones it is stupid shit like still using rpm (dpkg > rpm) and having that delta upgrade shit
 399 2011-02-14 02:42:38 <newsham> da2ce7: why not start talking and seeing if anyone picks it up
 400 2011-02-14 02:42:40 <Validus> then distros got the bright idea of moving key files which causes problems when compiling cuz they look in the wrong spot for things and that causes headaches
 401 2011-02-14 02:42:49 <Diablo-D3> Validus: ugh yeah
 402 2011-02-14 02:42:56 <Validus> like lftp w/ ssl support
 403 2011-02-14 02:42:59 <Diablo-D3> but then again thats why pkgconfig exists
 404 2011-02-14 02:43:09 <newsham> 7thed4lyfe
 405 2011-02-14 02:43:10 <Diablo-D3> and foo-config scripts
 406 2011-02-14 02:43:17 <Diablo-D3> so I can just do foo-config --libs --cflags and shit
 407 2011-02-14 02:43:21 <newsham> v74lyfe?
 408 2011-02-14 02:43:25 <da2ce7> newsham, just it is a littl bit non-trivial; may get lost/missunderstood
 409 2011-02-14 02:43:29 <presence> yeah, I understand
 410 2011-02-14 02:43:37 <presence> it didnt have yum in the beginning
 411 2011-02-14 02:43:44 <presence> so I hated it altogether
 412 2011-02-14 02:43:53 <Diablo-D3> apk > apt-get and yum by far though
 413 2011-02-14 02:44:06 <Validus> on centos yum installs mysql server with no root password by default. like WTF
 414 2011-02-14 02:44:24 <Diablo-D3> Validus: well
 415 2011-02-14 02:44:26 <Diablo-D3> the real wtf is
 416 2011-02-14 02:44:31 <Diablo-D3> people still use mysql
 417 2011-02-14 02:44:33 <Diablo-D3> dohohohohohoh
 418 2011-02-14 02:44:34 <newsham> thats why its "my" sql.
 419 2011-02-14 02:44:37 <Validus> lol
 420 2011-02-14 02:44:38 <newsham> "your db is mysql"
 421 2011-02-14 02:44:45 <presence> hell, my damn eth is tx unit hanging
 422 2011-02-14 02:44:50 <Validus> well it wasnt my machine. and i was just setting it up :P
 423 2011-02-14 02:44:50 <presence> son of a beyotch
 424 2011-02-14 02:44:53 * Diablo-D3 hates mysql
 425 2011-02-14 02:44:54 * Diablo-D3 hates mysql
 426 2011-02-14 02:44:55 * Diablo-D3 hates mysql
 427 2011-02-14 02:44:56 * Diablo-D3 hates mysql
 428 2011-02-14 02:44:57 * Diablo-D3 hates mysql
 429 2011-02-14 02:44:58 <Validus> it is a bastard
 430 2011-02-14 02:45:07 <Diablo-D3> postgresql forever
 431 2011-02-14 02:45:12 <Diablo-D3> or at least, until I write my own
 432 2011-02-14 02:45:58 <newsham> people arguing about what database is best is sort of like trying to pick the best turd on the lawn
 433 2011-02-14 02:46:05 <presence> Hmm...pulling out the intel and putting in a netgear
 434 2011-02-14 02:46:11 <presence> ubuntu seems to suck *shrug*
 435 2011-02-14 02:46:37 <newsham> the truth is, databases are large and bloated and more trouble than they're worth.
 436 2011-02-14 02:46:46 <newsham> if you need a datastore you can easily write a data store.
 437 2011-02-14 02:46:56 <newsham> and you probably wont even have to hire a specialy trained sysadmin to run it, either
 438 2011-02-14 02:47:21 <presence> when an intel e1000 driver is hosed...what the hell works
 439 2011-02-14 02:47:41 <Diablo-D3> well no
 440 2011-02-14 02:47:45 <Diablo-D3> if your db is large and bloated
 441 2011-02-14 02:47:49 <Diablo-D3> you may be wanting oracle anyhow
 442 2011-02-14 02:48:06 <Diablo-D3> no matter how much you hate it, it DOES manage to run small clusters right
 443 2011-02-14 02:48:34 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 444 2011-02-14 02:48:35 <newsham> and its "unbreakable'
 445 2011-02-14 02:48:37 <newsham> unless you try
 446 2011-02-14 02:49:11 <Diablo-D3> newsham: yeah, but theres people out there that do like, a single query that runs for a week and crunches a TB of data and even sends the output as postscript to the networked printer
 447 2011-02-14 02:49:33 <Diablo-D3> hardcore oracle users scare me
 448 2011-02-14 02:52:52 <presence> mysql is quite limited, but most of the people that use it don't need anything more
 449 2011-02-14 02:53:07 <Validus> it works for what i use it for
 450 2011-02-14 02:53:19 <Validus> once you actually setup it seems to work fine. but wow what a headache
 451 2011-02-14 02:53:23 <ZenMondo> it never let me down
 452 2011-02-14 02:53:32 <Validus> i gotta do mysql db's for my it w/ security degree :/
 453 2011-02-14 02:53:41 <Validus> IT*
 454 2011-02-14 02:55:27 <Validus> i also learned why theres 2000 different frontends that handle it
 455 2011-02-14 02:55:31 <Validus> lol
 456 2011-02-14 02:57:16 bitcoiner has joined
 457 2011-02-14 02:57:26 <lolcat> Validus: Why?
 458 2011-02-14 02:57:46 <Validus> if you dont have a linux box to play with. get a vps and install mysql and enjoy yourself
 459 2011-02-14 02:58:12 <lolcat> I have a vps, I have mysql
 460 2011-02-14 02:58:13 <Validus> i had to setup mysql for someone with never having used it before. and wow....
 461 2011-02-14 02:58:29 <Validus> i got it. it just ttook a minute
 462 2011-02-14 02:58:55 <Validus> but i dindt use any front end programs. but judging by the front end programs i saw. it makes it 100x simpler and convenient
 463 2011-02-14 02:59:10 <lolcat> Nah
 464 2011-02-14 02:59:14 <lolcat> I don't like front ends
 465 2011-02-14 02:59:19 <Validus> me neither
 466 2011-02-14 02:59:21 <lolcat> MY vps is sligthly messed up though
 467 2011-02-14 02:59:29 <Validus> i just did trial and error until i had it proper
 468 2011-02-14 02:59:34 <lolcat> I even use telnet to chat on irc once in a while
 469 2011-02-14 02:59:35 <Validus> google is my friend
 470 2011-02-14 03:03:33 <genjix> brb dont miss me
 471 2011-02-14 03:03:38 <Mango-chan> >they don't use cloud servers
 472 2011-02-14 03:04:11 <lolcat> http://b1ag.com/file.lol Can you help med test speed by wgetting that?
 473 2011-02-14 03:04:36 genjix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 474 2011-02-14 03:04:59 genjix has joined
 475 2011-02-14 03:05:38 <hozer> lolcat: 404: not found
 476 2011-02-14 03:06:18 <lolcat> b1ag.com/file.lol isn't found? Works here
 477 2011-02-14 03:06:35 <lolcat> http://b1ag.com/file.lol
 478 2011-02-14 03:06:36 <hozer> oh ;) 1 vs L
 479 2011-02-14 03:06:47 <lolcat> hozer: yeo
 480 2011-02-14 03:06:52 <lolcat> Yep*
 481 2011-02-14 03:07:05 <lolcat> Either my upload is slow, or nobody has 100mbit
 482 2011-02-14 03:07:20 <hozer> ~ 600K/s from a UK vps
 483 2011-02-14 03:07:32 <lolcat> Seams my cpu is at 100% oO
 484 2011-02-14 03:07:56 <hozer> hrrm.. it's varying from 400k to 600k
 485 2011-02-14 03:08:14 <lolcat> Now?
 486 2011-02-14 03:08:24 <hozer> yeah.. slow now
 487 2011-02-14 03:08:28 <hozer> where's the server at
 488 2011-02-14 03:08:30 <lolcat> Bah, it is using to much cpu
 489 2011-02-14 03:08:35 <lolcat> Netherlands
 490 2011-02-14 03:08:45 <lolcat> There is something wrong with it though
 491 2011-02-14 03:08:49 <hozer> hrrm
 492 2011-02-14 03:08:58 <hozer> io-bound?
 493 2011-02-14 03:09:13 <lolcat> 4 apache processes together using 100%
 494 2011-02-14 03:09:26 <lolcat> OpenVZ, I keep hitting the tcpsndbuf
 495 2011-02-14 03:09:45 <hozer> whoa
 496 2011-02-14 03:09:49 <hozer> 3.9M/s
 497 2011-02-14 03:09:58 <lolcat> I am convinced there is some error there (I can download the same file with the much smaller tcprcvbuf
 498 2011-02-14 03:10:05 <hozer> okay, whatever you did helped
 499 2011-02-14 03:10:13 <genjix> nanotube: hey around?
 500 2011-02-14 03:10:38 <genjix> ArtForz: ?
 501 2011-02-14 03:10:48 <lolcat> hozer: Yep much bether speeds now
 502 2011-02-14 03:10:57 <lolcat> Still, it is maxing my cpu
 503 2011-02-14 03:11:04 <hozer> lolcat: 2.5M/s now to a Bytemark datacenter
 504 2011-02-14 03:11:07 <lolcat> Wich is weird with something like 1 download
 505 2011-02-14 03:11:19 <hozer> hrrm, what's the relative cpu speed?
 506 2011-02-14 03:11:22 <lolcat> 80% cpu usage at 40MB/s
 507 2011-02-14 03:11:29 <lolcat> 2ghz 1 core
 508 2011-02-14 03:11:30 <genjix> jaromil: tcatm or noagendamarket , you around?
 509 2011-02-14 03:11:54 <genjix> nanotube: or ArtForz ?
 510 2011-02-14 03:12:05 grubles has joined
 511 2011-02-14 03:13:41 <noagendamarket> yes
 512 2011-02-14 03:13:52 <noagendamarket> what's up ?
 513 2011-02-14 03:13:53 <genjix> i made a new client
 514 2011-02-14 03:14:01 <genjix> can i send you some money to test?
 515 2011-02-14 03:14:09 <genjix> and you send me it back in various amounts?
 516 2011-02-14 03:14:40 <hozer> genjix: what's different about this client
 517 2011-02-14 03:14:41 <grubles> <- dingus here
 518 2011-02-14 03:15:00 <genjix> hozer: uses Qt, has a system tray icon, looks prettier
 519 2011-02-14 03:15:04 <noagendamarket> ok
 520 2011-02-14 03:15:06 satamusic has joined
 521 2011-02-14 03:15:07 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
 522 2011-02-14 03:15:07 satamusic has joined
 523 2011-02-14 03:15:08 <genjix> addy?
 524 2011-02-14 03:15:11 <genjix> thx
 525 2011-02-14 03:15:11 * lolcat will donate 8btc to the one who invent bitcoin for maemo
 526 2011-02-14 03:15:25 <grubles> maemo is dead
 527 2011-02-14 03:15:29 <lolcat> I know
 528 2011-02-14 03:15:32 <genjix> nokia is dead. maemo is dead
 529 2011-02-14 03:15:38 <lolcat> Nokia is dead now
 530 2011-02-14 03:15:44 <hozer> WebOS! ;)
 531 2011-02-14 03:15:44 <grubles> *meego is dead, therefore, maemo is dead
 532 2011-02-14 03:15:46 <lolcat> Maemo has been dead for a long time
 533 2011-02-14 03:15:52 <noagendamarket> 18vSVcS8upH34qsFvshwjxHcxH2gNnusff
 534 2011-02-14 03:15:55 <genjix> k
 535 2011-02-14 03:16:05 <noagendamarket> where do you want me to send it back to ?
 536 2011-02-14 03:16:05 <grubles> i miss my n900 :'(
 537 2011-02-14 03:16:15 <lolcat> But after my N900 breaks, I won't have any good phone options
 538 2011-02-14 03:16:22 <lolcat> I think I will just stop using phones then
 539 2011-02-14 03:16:34 <grubles> yeah...once you go n900 you never go back
 540 2011-02-14 03:17:04 <grubles> i miss playing super mario bros with a tethered bluetooth ps3 controller :'(
 541 2011-02-14 03:17:10 <nanotube> genjix: sup
 542 2011-02-14 03:17:22 <lolcat> I can't live with touch screen only, I don't like android, I don't like symbian and I will certanly never buy a Windows MObile
 543 2011-02-14 03:17:24 <genjix> noagendamarket: 18vSVcS8upH34qsFvshwjxHcxH2gNnusff send at least 5 transactions of varying amounts
 544 2011-02-14 03:17:28 <genjix> noagendamarket: i sent you 10 btc
 545 2011-02-14 03:17:44 <genjix> nanotube: hey, i just needed a tester... noagendamarket is here now ;)
 546 2011-02-14 03:17:50 <nanotube> ah ok :)
 547 2011-02-14 03:18:16 <grubles> lolcat: youre sol for now then
 548 2011-02-14 03:18:29 <hozer> lolcat: have you looked at any of the Palm/HP webos stuff?
 549 2011-02-14 03:18:38 <genjix> noagendamarket: oops
 550 2011-02-14 03:18:38 <doublec> nokia said they'll still release a meego phone
 551 2011-02-14 03:18:46 <genjix> noagendamarket: 18vSVcS8upH34qsFvshwjxHcxH2gNnusff
 552 2011-02-14 03:18:47 <lolcat> hozer: Not really
 553 2011-02-14 03:18:49 <genjix> i found a bug :p
 554 2011-02-14 03:19:02 <lolcat> I love the maemo phone, my phone bill not so much
 555 2011-02-14 03:19:14 <doublec> lolcat: what does "invent bitcoin for maemo" mean?
 556 2011-02-14 03:19:14 * genjix wonders how qApp could ever be None...
 557 2011-02-14 03:19:19 <doublec> lolcat: bitcoind runs on maemo
 558 2011-02-14 03:19:28 <doublec> can I have my 8btc now?
 559 2011-02-14 03:19:36 <hozer> lolcat: I have X-windows & a shell on my phone
 560 2011-02-14 03:19:40 <lolcat> The texting is so much like IM, that I send 3x as much sms as I should
 561 2011-02-14 03:19:46 <genjix> noagendamarket: 13RmwHmpm8fuE3pe1rTGE5uunzoQsGfzAT
 562 2011-02-14 03:19:48 <genjix> 13RmwHmpm8fuE3pe1rTGE5uunzoQsGfzAT
 563 2011-02-14 03:19:49 <genjix> 13RmwHmpm8fuE3pe1rTGE5uunzoQsGfzAT
 564 2011-02-14 03:19:50 <genjix> 13RmwHmpm8fuE3pe1rTGE5uunzoQsGfzAT
 565 2011-02-14 03:19:51 <lolcat> doublec: I have bitcoind on my phone
 566 2011-02-14 03:20:02 * hozer needs to build bitcoind for his phone
 567 2011-02-14 03:20:10 <doublec> lolcat: that's why I was asking for clarification
 568 2011-02-14 03:20:25 <lolcat> Gui and stuff
 569 2011-02-14 03:20:39 <noagendamarket> genjix sending
 570 2011-02-14 03:20:51 <genjix> thanks
 571 2011-02-14 03:21:21 ntosme2 has joined
 572 2011-02-14 03:22:09 <genjix> cool i see it :)
 573 2011-02-14 03:22:17 <lolcat> For some strange reason I have 3050 instead of 1GB ram
 574 2011-02-14 03:23:14 <genjix> noagendamarket: perfect
 575 2011-02-14 03:23:18 <genjix> thanks
 576 2011-02-14 03:23:21 <noagendamarket> :)
 577 2011-02-14 03:24:45 <Mango-chan> http://i.imgur.com/E4on8.jpg i just spent 300$ on a keyboard
 578 2011-02-14 03:24:47 <Mango-chan> feels... i don't know
 579 2011-02-14 03:27:07 <da2ce7> ok, retractable crypto keys... what are the limitations.
 580 2011-02-14 03:27:08 <da2ce7> ?
 581 2011-02-14 03:28:23 <da2ce7> can I issue out say 100 keys, that can sign. But have only one public key that needs to be used to check?
 582 2011-02-14 03:29:14 <da2ce7> if I change that public key later on, can I have 99 keys that still work, but one key that is now invalid?
 583 2011-02-14 03:32:44 <genjix> i was wondering this myself
 584 2011-02-14 03:33:28 <presence> well hell the ati bin totally assed the box
 585 2011-02-14 03:33:38 <presence> it might be easier to reinstall than mess with this BS
 586 2011-02-14 03:34:24 local has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 587 2011-02-14 03:34:37 <necrodearia> ;;seen theymos
 588 2011-02-14 03:34:37 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <theymos> I did, but I didn't feel like testing them. Do you know if they work?
 589 2011-02-14 03:37:11 <necrodearia> ;;later tell theymos If you have time, can you help me with some PHP/PostgreSQL issues?
 590 2011-02-14 03:37:12 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 591 2011-02-14 03:38:31 <Kiba> ;seen kiba
 592 2011-02-14 03:38:39 <Kiba> ;;seen kiba
 593 2011-02-14 03:38:40 <gribble> kiba was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 seconds ago: <Kiba> ;seen kiba
 594 2011-02-14 03:38:44 <Kiba> :(
 595 2011-02-14 03:40:45 <necrodearia> ;;later tell Kiba gribble can't see the present or the future, only the past
 596 2011-02-14 03:40:45 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 597 2011-02-14 03:41:17 Slix` has joined
 598 2011-02-14 03:46:35 amwt has joined
 599 2011-02-14 03:46:56 <presence> if I only had known how much a pain this ati shit was going to be
 600 2011-02-14 03:49:32 <lfm> ya even people who have gone thru it seem to underestimate the problems
 601 2011-02-14 03:50:43 <ntosme2> is the problem Windows drivers? would Linux be easier?
 602 2011-02-14 03:50:52 midnightmagic_ has joined
 603 2011-02-14 03:50:53 midnightmagic_ has quit (Changing host)
 604 2011-02-14 03:50:53 midnightmagic_ has joined
 605 2011-02-14 03:56:10 <genjix> ntosme2: yes, you need to install linux.
 606 2011-02-14 03:56:35 <ntosme2> good, that's what I'm using
 607 2011-02-14 03:57:01 <ntosme2> I will be playing this 'game' in a few days
 608 2011-02-14 03:57:52 <genjix> oh good cos i was trying to goad you into installing linux :)
 609 2011-02-14 03:58:01 <genjix> they're talking about linux
 610 2011-02-14 03:58:12 <ntosme2> great...
 611 2011-02-14 03:58:40 <ntosme2> I have a gefore 8600 working, is it the ATI driver that is a pain?
 612 2011-02-14 03:58:47 <ntosme2> geforce
 613 2011-02-14 03:59:43 <ntosme2> perhaps I will run winXP for that system...
 614 2011-02-14 04:00:10 brcosta has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 615 2011-02-14 04:02:34 <luke-jr> ntosme2: maybe, but nvidia cards are worthless :P
 616 2011-02-14 04:03:02 <luke-jr> my CPU can mine as well as your GPU
 617 2011-02-14 04:03:02 <ntosme2> luke-jr: for this purpose, pretty much
 618 2011-02-14 04:03:25 <ntosme2> not as efficiently :-p
 619 2011-02-14 04:04:36 <lfm> for instance I cannot apply current security patches to ubuntu cuz the ati drivers quit working
 620 2011-02-14 04:04:40 <luke-jr> ntosme2: um, no such thing
 621 2011-02-14 04:05:05 * luke-jr is glad Gentoo is slightly less a pain
 622 2011-02-14 04:05:15 <luke-jr> the only reason I had any problems, is because my kernel is cross-compiled
 623 2011-02-14 04:05:29 <luke-jr> and ATi's drivers don't like different userland/kernel architecture
 624 2011-02-14 04:05:39 <ntosme2> wonderful
 625 2011-02-14 04:06:05 <ntosme2> this is why I have avoided AMD/ATI GPUs in the past
 626 2011-02-14 04:06:36 <phantomcircuit> is it just me or is the makefile.unix extremely temperamental
 627 2011-02-14 04:07:06 <bk128> so is it easier to run windows or linux to mine with an ATI card?
 628 2011-02-14 04:07:11 <lfm> phantomcircuit: not just you
 629 2011-02-14 04:07:14 <genjix> phantomcircuit: works fine for me.
 630 2011-02-14 04:07:18 <genjix> i just install the right packages and im ok
 631 2011-02-14 04:07:52 <phantomcircuit> yeah im not using ubuntu
 632 2011-02-14 04:07:58 <genjix> ah k
 633 2011-02-14 04:08:00 <lfm> phantomcircuit: it is quite sensitive to certain versions of wx libs and boost and bdb
 634 2011-02-14 04:09:50 <luke-jr> ntosme2: nvidia is all the worse
 635 2011-02-14 04:10:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I never got makefile.unix to work. ever.
 636 2011-02-14 04:10:25 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 637 2011-02-14 04:10:27 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: easier to write your own qmake .pro file
 638 2011-02-14 04:11:03 <lfm> i think nvidia software is slightly more stable but the whole gpgpu cuda as well as opencl is still pretty new and still being developed
 639 2011-02-14 04:11:32 <luke-jr> lfm: nope
 640 2011-02-14 04:11:47 <luke-jr> furthermore, there is no free OS alternative for nvidia cards
 641 2011-02-14 04:11:47 <lfm>  /ignore luke-jr all
 642 2011-02-14 04:12:33 <luke-jr> lfm: your loss/ignorance.
 643 2011-02-14 04:12:46 Animeking has joined
 644 2011-02-14 04:12:51 <Animeking> Hmm
 645 2011-02-14 04:12:57 <lfm> luke-jr: note the first two words there. dont try to tell me what I think you twit
 646 2011-02-14 04:13:04 <Animeking> whats the name of the site I can use to check the current exchange rate for Bitcoins?
 647 2011-02-14 04:14:06 <luke-jr> Animeking: bitcoingraphs.com IIRC
 648 2011-02-14 04:14:23 <Validus> lol its ok lfm. apparently were all ignorant if you dont agree with the troll
 649 2011-02-14 04:14:28 <Validus> lil ati fanboy
 650 2011-02-14 04:14:35 <[Noodles]> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
 651 2011-02-14 04:14:45 <luke-jr> ah, that's it
 652 2011-02-14 04:15:05 <Validus> you failed to make one valid point yet. all day long. cept to troll and cause shit
 653 2011-02-14 04:15:07 <Validus> now you are on ignore
 654 2011-02-14 04:15:19 <Validus> cuz frankly my left nut has more brains than you do
 655 2011-02-14 04:15:33 <luke-jr> lol
 656 2011-02-14 04:15:36 <luke-jr> more ignorance
 657 2011-02-14 04:16:43 <Validus> and a fyi. nvidia is alot more supported on linux than ati's gay worthless ass drivers
 658 2011-02-14 04:16:55 <Validus> and i have an ati card
 659 2011-02-14 04:17:03 <luke-jr> it's not Linux anymore when you add a blob to it, n00b
 660 2011-02-14 04:17:26 <luke-jr> at least ATi cards *work* with *real* Linux
 661 2011-02-14 04:17:40 <Validus> ya im sure you think ubuntu is real linux to
 662 2011-02-14 04:17:46 <lfm> so long as you dont breate on them
 663 2011-02-14 04:17:50 <Validus> * Added luke-jr!*@* to ignore list
 664 2011-02-14 04:17:53 <lfm> so long as you dont breathe on them
 665 2011-02-14 04:17:59 <Validus> fuck that troll
 666 2011-02-14 04:18:02 <Validus> ignorant lil kiddie
 667 2011-02-14 04:18:57 <luke-jr> the ignorant one, is the one who won't even listen to others' views before rejecting them ;)
 668 2011-02-14 04:19:19 <lfm> Validus: he is old enuf to know better or so he claims to have reproduced
 669 2011-02-14 04:19:31 <Animeking> actually
 670 2011-02-14 04:19:35 <Validus> ya. babies going down the shower drain
 671 2011-02-14 04:19:49 <Animeking> with nouveau nvidia now 'works with real linux' if you what you say is true. :\
 672 2011-02-14 04:20:00 <Animeking> Maybe not as great and crippled
 673 2011-02-14 04:20:02 <Animeking> but it works.
 674 2011-02-14 04:20:19 <luke-jr> Animeking: for 3D and video?
 675 2011-02-14 04:20:26 <Animeking> as I said
 676 2011-02-14 04:20:29 <Animeking> crippled greately
 677 2011-02-14 04:20:31 <Animeking> but it works
 678 2011-02-14 04:20:43 <Validus> i just hope he's young. so he has time to actually learn something and forced to be in school
 679 2011-02-14 04:20:50 <Validus> cuz if thats an adult. my god...
 680 2011-02-14 04:20:52 <luke-jr> I'm not sure most people would call it working, if there's no video accel <.<
 681 2011-02-14 04:20:55 <lfm> certainly ahead of ati open drivers
 682 2011-02-14 04:21:08 <luke-jr> LOL, definitely not
 683 2011-02-14 04:21:12 <Validus> ive developed a new hate for ati from linux + ati
 684 2011-02-14 04:21:21 <luke-jr> free software support for ATi works *great* out of the box
 685 2011-02-14 04:21:21 <Validus> i got it working with my project yes
 686 2011-02-14 04:21:28 <Validus> 45 work hrs later and about 8 adderall
 687 2011-02-14 04:21:30 amwt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 688 2011-02-14 04:21:34 <luke-jr> just not OpenCL basically
 689 2011-02-14 04:21:35 <Validus> lol
 690 2011-02-14 04:21:39 <jrabbit> luke-jr: suuuuure
 691 2011-02-14 04:22:05 <Animeking> I actually believe luke-jr because I found the nouveau drivers to work very well out of the box as well...just no 3D acceleration :\
 692 2011-02-14 04:22:05 * jrabbit has had nothign but headaches from his ati card under linux
 693 2011-02-14 04:22:15 <luke-jr> jrabbit: I used to use an ATi card for my video output.
 694 2011-02-14 04:22:17 <Animeking> nvidia proprietary drivers
 695 2011-02-14 04:22:22 <Animeking> do offer supperior power
 696 2011-02-14 04:22:28 <Validus> ati hw accellereation works as of dec 2010
 697 2011-02-14 04:22:31 <Validus> from 1 guy that made it
 698 2011-02-14 04:22:42 <Validus> i spent 45 hrs compiling and troubleshooting to get gpu accelration in video
 699 2011-02-14 04:22:50 <luke-jr> from like 2004 to Jan 2011
 700 2011-02-14 04:22:53 <lfm> I admit the ati hardware is somewhat ahead of nvida atm
 701 2011-02-14 04:23:05 <Validus> hardware dont mean nothing if you cant support it with drivers
 702 2011-02-14 04:23:10 <Animeking> I consider ati and nvidia to be about equal at the moment
 703 2011-02-14 04:23:19 <Animeking> they offer superior performance, with increased energy usage :\
 704 2011-02-14 04:23:24 <Validus> i dont buy things for bragging rights
 705 2011-02-14 04:23:24 <Animeking> and heat.
 706 2011-02-14 04:23:48 <luke-jr> Animeking: if you're using free software, ATi at least can do video and 3D accel good enough for HD video and games
 707 2011-02-14 04:23:54 <luke-jr> can you say the same for nvidia?
 708 2011-02-14 04:24:10 <Animeking> No, I'm not arguing by saying nvidia offers superior free drivers.
 709 2011-02-14 04:24:23 <Animeking> They do have superior prop drivers though.
 710 2011-02-14 04:24:34 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah actually i can
 711 2011-02-14 04:24:42 <luke-jr> in the end, free drivers are the only *real* Linux support. everything else might as well be Windows (and is in fact a wrapper around Windows drivers)
 712 2011-02-14 04:24:50 <Animeking> :\
 713 2011-02-14 04:25:02 <Animeking> I'm just gonna ignroe you.
 714 2011-02-14 04:25:03 <Animeking> lol
 715 2011-02-14 04:25:04 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: nouveau can play games?
 716 2011-02-14 04:25:10 <luke-jr> Animeking: …
 717 2011-02-14 04:25:19 <phantomcircuit> no the nvidia drivers can
 718 2011-02-14 04:25:32 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, also the linux nvidia drivers are not a wrapper of the windows drivers
 719 2011-02-14 04:25:38 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: key words: "if you're using free software,"
 720 2011-02-14 04:26:00 <luke-jr> nouveau is the only free software driver for nvidia cards
 721 2011-02-14 04:26:08 <Validus> lol i almost wish i didnt have ignore on to see that one
 722 2011-02-14 04:26:28 <Animeking> "1.08 " does this mean that every single coin is no worth 1 dollar and 8 cents o.O
 723 2011-02-14 04:26:42 <luke-jr> Animeking: see "volume"
 724 2011-02-14 04:26:56 <lfm> Animeking: basiclly ya
 725 2011-02-14 04:27:05 * Animeking nosebleeds.
 726 2011-02-14 04:27:09 <luke-jr> Animeking: to actually sell every single coin, you would probably destroy the market and reduce it to 0
 727 2011-02-14 04:27:30 <Animeking> Ah.
 728 2011-02-14 04:27:42 paul0 has joined
 729 2011-02-14 04:27:43 <luke-jr> heck, I wouldn't be surprised if selling 10% did that
 730 2011-02-14 04:27:50 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i honestly dont care that the nvidia drivers replace about 50% of Xorg
 731 2011-02-14 04:28:11 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ok. some people do care.
 732 2011-02-14 04:29:04 <Animeking> I actually do care that the nvidia drivers replace 50% of Xorg. I honestly wish they'd just release docs to make it easier on nvidia users who don't care about the best performance but  at the very least want okay 3D acceleration.
 733 2011-02-14 04:29:07 <Animeking> For simple things.
 734 2011-02-14 04:29:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the foss drivers are ati were last  i knew complete and utter shit
 735 2011-02-14 04:29:42 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: could be, depending on the card. I'd been using one for the past 7 years, with no problems playing 3D games, etc
 736 2011-02-14 04:30:21 <luke-jr> I can't say for sure that performance was top-notch 7 years ago, but it certainly *worked* (including 3D) that whole time
 737 2011-02-14 04:31:03 <phantomcircuit> i could never get the ati card in my moms desktop to work
 738 2011-02-14 04:31:11 <lfm> i suspect so long as nvida and ati are competeing the way they are we wont see complete current hardware docs since they dont want to give any edge to the other guy
 739 2011-02-14 04:31:11 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what card was it?
 740 2011-02-14 04:31:34 <luke-jr> lfm: um, except that ATi/AMD *does* give the docs to X.org/Linux developers
 741 2011-02-14 04:31:41 <luke-jr> lfm: even for their newest cards, last I checked
 742 2011-02-14 04:31:44 <Animeking> keyword
 743 2011-02-14 04:31:46 <Animeking> COMPLETE
 744 2011-02-14 04:31:47 <lfm> for 5 year old crap
 745 2011-02-14 04:31:51 <luke-jr> oh, complete
 746 2011-02-14 04:31:55 <luke-jr> we'll never see complete
 747 2011-02-14 04:31:58 <luke-jr> there's DRM in there
 748 2011-02-14 04:32:08 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, some Rage all-in-wonder card
 749 2011-02-14 04:32:12 <phantomcircuit> cant remember the model
 750 2011-02-14 04:32:28 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that sounds ancient. I meant the Radeon line which has been current for the past 10+ years
 751 2011-02-14 04:32:47 <lfm> ok 10 year old crap
 752 2011-02-14 04:32:47 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, 8+ years
 753 2011-02-14 04:32:49 <phantomcircuit> ;)
 754 2011-02-14 04:32:57 <luke-jr> lfm: the 10 yo crap is what *doesn't* work :p
 755 2011-02-14 04:33:03 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: sure? feels like more
 756 2011-02-14 04:33:10 <luke-jr> this computer is actually my first non-ATi gfx chipset
 757 2011-02-14 04:33:24 <luke-jr> before my last Radeon X850, I had a Radeon 9200
 758 2011-02-14 04:33:36 <luke-jr> before that was my last nvidia, a GeForce 2 MX
 759 2011-02-14 04:34:14 <luke-jr> (so technically, not my *first ever* non-ATi, but first in a LOOOONG time)
 760 2011-02-14 04:36:09 <lfm> ok they wont give us the hdmi drm stuff we'll have to figure that out for ourselves but they dont reall even release the rest
 761 2011-02-14 04:36:42 <luke-jr> lfm: they do release enough for good 3D performance, I'm certain…
 762 2011-02-14 04:37:17 <lfm> 3d is 15 years ago, we need the opencl support
 763 2011-02-14 04:37:44 <luke-jr> AFAIK, OpenCL is strictly a DRI/X.org issue now
 764 2011-02-14 04:37:58 <luke-jr> not a driver thing
 765 2011-02-14 04:38:57 <lfm> should be able to support opencl without any X
 766 2011-02-14 04:39:09 <luke-jr> I wish, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen :/
 767 2011-02-14 04:39:23 amwt has joined
 768 2011-02-14 04:39:29 amwt has left ()
 769 2011-02-14 04:39:53 <lfm> i bet we see it on nvidia first
 770 2011-02-14 04:40:19 <luke-jr> maybe proprietary nvidia.
 771 2011-02-14 04:40:27 <luke-jr> they did an AIGLX-equivalent first IIRC
 772 2011-02-14 04:42:00 toast has joined
 773 2011-02-14 04:43:57 <luke-jr> but personally, the moment I can do OpenCL with free software, I'm trashing the ATi blobs
 774 2011-02-14 04:44:07 <luke-jr> whether it means an idle X server or not :p
 775 2011-02-14 04:45:30 <davex___> any of you overvolting your ATI cards?
 776 2011-02-14 04:45:51 <Animeking> So, how does the whole volume thing, marketting exchange work
 777 2011-02-14 04:46:09 <davex___> i can't figure out how to do it
 778 2011-02-14 04:46:58 <lfm> Animeking: volume just tells you how many btc were echanged in the time period involved
 779 2011-02-14 04:47:15 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 780 2011-02-14 04:47:24 <Animeking> ah
 781 2011-02-14 04:47:47 <lfm> so larger volume is more significant
 782 2011-02-14 04:47:51 <Animeking> Ah
 783 2011-02-14 04:47:53 Slix` has joined
 784 2011-02-14 04:47:59 <Animeking> Would selling BCs effect the market negatively? :\
 785 2011-02-14 04:48:12 <lfm> for every sell there is a matching buy
 786 2011-02-14 04:48:20 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 787 2011-02-14 04:49:40 <Animeking> So someone has to 'want' your BCs first?
 788 2011-02-14 04:50:22 <lfm> pretty much ya, so the cheaper you offer them the quicker someone will snap em up in general
 789 2011-02-14 04:51:50 <jgarzik> luke-jr: you can probably do CAL with open source software
 790 2011-02-14 04:51:53 <lfm> if you match the outsyanding offers you can sell immeadiatly
 791 2011-02-14 04:52:06 <jgarzik> someone just needs to dig into the details of X.org shader stuff
 792 2011-02-14 04:52:14 <jgarzik> google for r600demo
 793 2011-02-14 04:52:21 <luke-jr> CAL?
 794 2011-02-14 04:52:30 <jgarzik> luke-jr: ATI-specific instruction set
 795 2011-02-14 04:52:52 <luke-jr> ah
 796 2011-02-14 04:53:47 <presence> ok, so once I get the ati stream sdk compiled...how do I "install" it
 797 2011-02-14 04:54:25 <presence> there is no make install....
 798 2011-02-14 04:54:28 <jgarzik> luke-jr: so if you can program in C and shader-assembly, you can probably get 100% FOSS going
 799 2011-02-14 04:54:34 <lfm> presence: I never compiled it, just installed it according to the documented instructions
 800 2011-02-14 04:54:40 <davex___> there's a pdf in there that lists a couple environment vars to set
 801 2011-02-14 04:54:44 <presence> ok
 802 2011-02-14 04:54:49 <luke-jr> jgarzik: C, sure… shader, not so much XD
 803 2011-02-14 04:55:00 <presence> just toss it somewhere and set some env
 804 2011-02-14 04:55:10 <davex___> yup that's what i did
 805 2011-02-14 04:55:23 <jgarzik> ATI/AMD opened the hardware docs, too.  so that's open.
 806 2011-02-14 04:55:51 <lfm> also the icd files need to be installed to point to the right drivers
 807 2011-02-14 04:57:02 <jgarzik> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/r600_demo/tree/?h=master
 808 2011-02-14 04:57:30 <presence> odd
 809 2011-02-14 04:58:00 <lfm> presence: odd? the icd files?
 810 2011-02-14 04:58:06 <presence> nah
 811 2011-02-14 04:58:09 <presence> the docs are trunked
 812 2011-02-14 04:58:13 <presence> almost nothing in them
 813 2011-02-14 04:58:18 <jgarzik> bleh.  windows (winsock2) limits portable programs to using select :/
 814 2011-02-14 04:59:04 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 815 2011-02-14 04:59:21 <lfm> windows networking is based very heavily on bsd
 816 2011-02-14 04:59:43 <presence> FATAL: Module nvidia not found.
 817 2011-02-14 04:59:53 <presence> I have an nvidia chipset, but an ATI card
 818 2011-02-14 05:00:01 <presence> this might prove to be unhappy
 819 2011-02-14 05:00:37 <lfm> presence: does it have a on board video as well as the pcie ati card?
 820 2011-02-14 05:01:07 <presence> no
 821 2011-02-14 05:01:19 <lfm> should be ok then Id think
 822 2011-02-14 05:01:35 <presence> yeah but all this opecl shit in in an nvidia lib dir
 823 2011-02-14 05:01:45 <presence> where they came from I dont know
 824 2011-02-14 05:01:52 <lfm> you need the ati opencl SDK
 825 2011-02-14 05:02:09 <presence> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   36 2011-02-13 21:25 libvdpau_nvidia.so -> /etc/alternatives/libvdpau_nvidia.so
 826 2011-02-14 05:02:12 <presence> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2010-10-07 10:10 nvidia
 827 2011-02-14 05:02:13 <presence> yeah I have it
 828 2011-02-14 05:02:15 <presence> drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4096 2011-02-13 21:25 nvidia-current
 829 2011-02-14 05:02:50 <presence> I have 2.1
 830 2011-02-14 05:02:52 <lfm> presence: that gets installed on ubuntu but it shouldnt matter
 831 2011-02-14 05:02:59 <presence> ls
 832 2011-02-14 05:03:34 <presence> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     27 2011-02-13 21:24 libOpenCL.so -> nvidia-current/libOpenCL.so
 833 2011-02-14 05:03:40 <presence> crap like that is going on
 834 2011-02-14 05:03:56 <lfm> presence: the nvidia opencl doesnt support ati of course
 835 2011-02-14 05:04:04 <presence> yeah, but I didnt install it
 836 2011-02-14 05:04:39 <lfm> presence: it is a dependancy of the pyopencl (incorrectly we think)
 837 2011-02-14 05:04:53 <presence> yep, Im looking and I see nvidia-current
 838 2011-02-14 05:05:03 <presence> with pyopencl as a dependency
 839 2011-02-14 05:05:09 <presence> so I guess I remove those
 840 2011-02-14 05:05:16 <presence> and then not install the pyopencl package
 841 2011-02-14 05:05:22 <lfm> presence: the files are there but they shouldnt get activated if you dont have a nvidia card
 842 2011-02-14 05:06:16 <presence> apparently it didnt happen to me :(
 843 2011-02-14 05:06:39 <lfm> dunno why then
 844 2011-02-14 05:08:54 <Mango-chan> happy valentines est people
 845 2011-02-14 05:10:15 <luke-jr> Happy St. Valentine's Day ;)
 846 2011-02-14 05:11:19 sgornick has joined
 847 2011-02-14 05:12:04 <luke-jr> jgarzik: yeah, I don't think I know enough to make that code useful to me without weeks of studying it
 848 2011-02-14 05:16:11 <presence> jesus christ this is epicly inane
 849 2011-02-14 05:18:05 EvanR_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 850 2011-02-14 05:19:23 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 851 2011-02-14 05:19:47 EvanR has joined
 852 2011-02-14 05:20:08 <luke-jr> presence: probably need to use a VM
 853 2011-02-14 05:30:26 <Mango-chan> http://i.imgur.com/eTkDJ.jpg happy valentines day bitcoin community~
 854 2011-02-14 05:31:30 <luke-jr> Mango-chan: St. Valentine's*
 855 2011-02-14 05:32:20 <presence> finally got it running
 856 2011-02-14 05:32:23 <presence> but it was utter hell
 857 2011-02-14 05:32:47 <luke-jr> presence: both nvidia and ati blobs?
 858 2011-02-14 05:34:09 <presence> rediculous
 859 2011-02-14 05:34:18 <genjix> MT`AwAy seen this? http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4556/engms.png ;)
 860 2011-02-14 05:34:19 <presence> what tools in linux can monitor cpu use
 861 2011-02-14 05:34:25 <genjix> the thread http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3451.0
 862 2011-02-14 05:34:25 <lolcat> htop?
 863 2011-02-14 05:34:25 <presence> or gpu temp would be better
 864 2011-02-14 05:34:30 * genjix MT`AwAy http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3451.0
 865 2011-02-14 05:34:42 <MT`AwAy> genjix, ?
 866 2011-02-14 05:34:47 <genjix> new client
 867 2011-02-14 05:35:03 <genjix> in qt
 868 2011-02-14 05:35:16 <MT`AwAy> lol
 869 2011-02-14 05:35:23 <MT`AwAy> using bitcoind or new core ?
 870 2011-02-14 05:35:24 <lfm> presence: : aticonfig   --od-gettemperature
 871 2011-02-14 05:35:37 <genjix> MT`AwAy: bitcoind... nobody has access to your secret core
 872 2011-02-14 05:35:41 <MT`AwAy> :p
 873 2011-02-14 05:35:44 <genjix> but i can easily switch them
 874 2011-02-14 05:36:06 <presence> no way to do it constantly without a script?
 875 2011-02-14 05:36:10 <MT`AwAy> yep, especially since I have a bitcoind- compatible api
 876 2011-02-14 05:36:18 <genjix> https://github.com/genjix/spesmilo/blob/master/core_interface.py
 877 2011-02-14 05:36:36 <MT`AwAy> I'll have to see if I can swig my core
 878 2011-02-14 05:36:38 <genjix> i had to add a new method to bitcoind (isinitialized)
 879 2011-02-14 05:36:39 <lfm> presence: there is a ticonfig gui too but I havnt used it much
 880 2011-02-14 05:36:43 <genjix> cool :)
 881 2011-02-14 05:37:49 <presence> hmm 200Mhash
 882 2011-02-14 05:37:51 <presence> thats horrible
 883 2011-02-14 05:38:05 <presence> now temp is going down
 884 2011-02-14 05:38:11 <lfm> presence: what card?
 885 2011-02-14 05:38:27 <presence> 5870
 886 2011-02-14 05:38:29 <presence> went up to 330
 887 2011-02-14 05:38:34 <presence> then straight back down to 0
 888 2011-02-14 05:41:20 JunK-Y has joined
 889 2011-02-14 05:41:54 <luke-jr> genjix: btw, wtf is the nonsense you added to teh QBitcoin page about PySide? XD
 890 2011-02-14 05:42:11 <luke-jr> genjix: QBitcoin is a specific client, written in normal Qt, not Python
 891 2011-02-14 05:42:14 <luke-jr> (right, MT`AwAy?)
 892 2011-02-14 05:43:11 <presence> 86deg c
 893 2011-02-14 05:43:35 <genjix> if the client is seperate from the core, then what difference does it make?
 894 2011-02-14 05:44:09 <luke-jr> genjix: the difference is that QBitCoin is the name of MT`AwAy's client, and if you have your own client in PySide, it needs its own name :p
 895 2011-02-14 05:44:23 <lfm> 86 seems to be getting a bit high
 896 2011-02-14 05:44:41 <genjix> pyside is qt
 897 2011-02-14 05:45:05 <presence> 88 now
 898 2011-02-14 05:45:07 <MT`AwAy> genjix, PyBitcoin then ?
 899 2011-02-14 05:45:12 <presence> the cooling in this case sucks
 900 2011-02-14 05:45:36 <lfm> well the temp indicates it IS busy with something!
 901 2011-02-14 05:46:01 Shfork has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 902 2011-02-14 05:46:16 <luke-jr> genjix: PySide is a Python API to access Qt modules
 903 2011-02-14 05:46:53 <genjix> you care about this more than i do
 904 2011-02-14 05:47:26 <toast> i now have a dedicated computer watching market price and live transactions, you guys watch anything else i should add to the list?
 905 2011-02-14 05:47:43 <presence> took the side off of the case and its 10deg C cooler
 906 2011-02-14 05:47:55 <lfm> presence: good idea
 907 2011-02-14 05:47:56 <genjix> toast: does it follow stats like bitcoinwatch.com?
 908 2011-02-14 05:48:13 <lfm> presence: can you add any fans to that case?
 909 2011-02-14 05:48:19 <toast> im just using mtgox.com's megagraph, which is alright....
 910 2011-02-14 05:48:22 <presence> its a horrible case
 911 2011-02-14 05:48:30 <presence> has 2 80mm fan mounts
 912 2011-02-14 05:48:36 <luke-jr> toast: except you presume MtGox to be *the* market
 913 2011-02-14 05:48:41 <presence> I may cut the side panel and mount a 80cfm fan into it
 914 2011-02-14 05:48:44 <presence> 120mm
 915 2011-02-14 05:48:56 <toast> i know its just onemarket...
 916 2011-02-14 05:49:02 <genjix> toast: sounds cool.
 917 2011-02-14 05:49:23 <genjix> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
 918 2011-02-14 05:49:26 <toast> does bitcoinwatch show more then one market?
 919 2011-02-14 05:49:53 <toast> oh wonderful, thank you
 920 2011-02-14 05:50:05 <genjix> you could try clicking the link :^)
 921 2011-02-14 05:50:14 <genjix> however i think some things are missing from it:
 922 2011-02-14 05:50:29 <genjix> - doesn't show current filesize of total blocks
 923 2011-02-14 05:50:52 <genjix> - only 2 currencies
 924 2011-02-14 05:50:57 <toast> genjix: i did click it, but i can not purchace btc with anything other then pp usd and usd
 925 2011-02-14 05:51:01 <genjix> - api is in fucking files kjdsnbd#4
 926 2011-02-14 05:51:06 <genjix> zip files
 927 2011-02-14 05:51:27 <genjix> toast: it's a monitoring site, not for buying
 928 2011-02-14 05:51:42 <genjix> shows all the major exchanges
 929 2011-02-14 05:51:54 <toast> right on
 930 2011-02-14 05:52:38 <toast> im still trying to find any other monitoring sites that are out there
 931 2011-02-14 05:53:18 <luke-jr> you know charts?
 932 2011-02-14 05:53:22 EvanR has quit (Changing host)
 933 2011-02-14 05:53:22 EvanR has joined
 934 2011-02-14 05:53:25 <luke-jr> and andrew12's?
 935 2011-02-14 05:53:29 devon_hillard has joined
 936 2011-02-14 05:53:32 <toast> yes, looking for charts
 937 2011-02-14 05:53:58 <devon_hillard> does anyone else have problems with diablo miner after installing the latest AMD drivers for windows?
 938 2011-02-14 05:54:03 <toast> luke-jr: no i dont know andrew12
 939 2011-02-14 05:54:31 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3:
 940 2011-02-14 05:55:28 <lfm> I went back to a disablo miner from Jan 1
 941 2011-02-14 05:55:37 <toast> luke-jr: i found a git-hub, but the page is 404
 942 2011-02-14 05:55:47 <presence> Im using diablos on linux, but poclbm on windows
 943 2011-02-14 05:57:10 <Diablo-D3> what
 944 2011-02-14 05:57:11 pogden has joined
 945 2011-02-14 05:58:09 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: there seems to be a problem with the miner crashing after the latest ATI drivers were installed
 946 2011-02-14 05:58:20 <devon_hillard> it crashes within 30 seconds
 947 2011-02-14 05:58:43 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: there is a clear warning not to use 11.1
 948 2011-02-14 05:58:44 <devon_hillard> it's a general java fault, not merely an exception
 949 2011-02-14 05:59:35 <Diablo-D3> it crashes inside the driver, so I cant fix it
 950 2011-02-14 05:59:36 <Diablo-D3> only amd can
 951 2011-02-14 06:00:01 <devon_hillard> not sure how to downgrade
 952 2011-02-14 06:00:17 chaord has joined
 953 2011-02-14 06:00:22 <Diablo-D3> on windows?
 954 2011-02-14 06:00:26 <devon_hillard> ah, wait, got it
 955 2011-02-14 06:01:02 <Diablo-D3> on windows, you boot to safe mode, login as administrator, and use their full uninstall tool
 956 2011-02-14 06:01:03 <Diablo-D3> reboot
 957 2011-02-14 06:01:11 chaord has left ()
 958 2011-02-14 06:01:11 <Diablo-D3> safe mode, admin, install old drivers
 959 2011-02-14 06:02:35 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 960 2011-02-14 06:02:57 <presence> thats your whole day :(
 961 2011-02-14 06:03:15 <Diablo-D3> it takes like 10 minutes
 962 2011-02-14 06:03:34 <presence> no, I mean thats the same question all frickin day long
 963 2011-02-14 06:03:38 <Diablo-D3> heh
 964 2011-02-14 06:04:17 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 965 2011-02-14 06:05:02 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 966 2011-02-14 06:05:54 <lfm> presence: lotas same questions all day, which one are you thinking of?
 967 2011-02-14 06:05:59 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 968 2011-02-14 06:07:28 <presence> for diablod3
 969 2011-02-14 06:08:26 <lfm> what question tho?
 970 2011-02-14 06:08:35 <presence> drivers and diablominer
 971 2011-02-14 06:08:38 <Diablo-D3> why does 11.1 suck dick
 972 2011-02-14 06:08:52 <Diablo-D3> answer: because you didnt buy any new video cards lately
 973 2011-02-14 06:09:09 <lfm> oh, ya we cant really answer that, gotta track down the ati developers
 974 2011-02-14 06:09:26 <presence> I cant do that
 975 2011-02-14 06:09:33 <presence> I want to make their lives miserable
 976 2011-02-14 06:09:40 <presence> and if I find them I will
 977 2011-02-14 06:10:44 <presence> so you have x/y diablo, whats each field for
 978 2011-02-14 06:11:16 <Diablo-D3> ?
 979 2011-02-14 06:11:23 <presence> is first immediate and second is average over time?
 980 2011-02-14 06:11:40 <presence> x/y khash/sec in your output display
 981 2011-02-14 06:11:50 <Diablo-D3> 15 second/forever
 982 2011-02-14 06:12:45 <presence> cool
 983 2011-02-14 06:13:27 <presence> Im going to have to figure out how to ratchet up the gpu on linux
 984 2011-02-14 06:13:35 <presence> so I can go to 885
 985 2011-02-14 06:14:37 devon_hillard has joined
 986 2011-02-14 06:17:19 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 987 2011-02-14 06:18:07 <lfm> man you are quite the masochist
 988 2011-02-14 06:19:07 <Diablo-D3> heh
 989 2011-02-14 06:19:10 <presence> after dealing with the drivers, nothing else could be worse
 990 2011-02-14 06:19:45 <presence> I have had less trouble crosscompiling code to run on an embedded system and bootlacing it, and then hand configuring X than I had with these horrible ati drivers
 991 2011-02-14 06:20:17 <lfm> overclocking is just asking for more problems imho
 992 2011-02-14 06:21:14 devon_hillard has joined
 993 2011-02-14 06:21:28 <presence> getting irc to compile on the pdp11 or pr1mos was easier
 994 2011-02-14 06:21:36 <presence> that shit is just broken
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1000 2011-02-14 06:29:50 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1001 2011-02-14 06:31:11 devon_hillard_ has quit (Client Quit)
1002 2011-02-14 06:31:44 <devon_hillard> *** CAL version mismatch:
1003 2011-02-14 06:31:44 <devon_hillard> This OpenCL build requires version 1.4.879, version 1.4.838 installed.
1004 2011-02-14 06:31:45 <devon_hillard> Aborting.
1005 2011-02-14 06:31:45 <devon_hillard> [2/14/11 8:24:37 AM] ERROR: OpenCL platform ATI Stream contains no devices
1006 2011-02-14 06:31:58 <devon_hillard> I'm completely lost :(
1007 2011-02-14 06:32:11 <devon_hillard> tried uninstalling catalyst 11.1 drivers
1008 2011-02-14 06:32:25 bossweld has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1009 2011-02-14 06:32:32 bossweld has joined
1010 2011-02-14 06:32:35 <devon_hillard> I mean 10.11
1011 2011-02-14 06:32:37 ntosme2 has joined
1012 2011-02-14 06:32:41 <devon_hillard> went back to 10.10
1013 2011-02-14 06:32:49 <devon_hillard> even tried 10.12 beta preview
1014 2011-02-14 06:33:22 <devon_hillard> diablo miner doesn't work anymore
1015 2011-02-14 06:33:39 <presence> no miner will work if opencl isnt up
1016 2011-02-14 06:34:05 <devon_hillard> not sure what I did that opencl is no longer installed
1017 2011-02-14 06:34:12 <presence> well, a cpu miner will work I guess
1018 2011-02-14 06:34:14 <devon_hillard> I just uninstalled catalyst
1019 2011-02-14 06:35:28 <rapacity> I'm using catalyst 10.12 it works here
1020 2011-02-14 06:35:43 <presence> linux?
1021 2011-02-14 06:35:54 <devon_hillard> what is the link to download the opencl drivers?
1022 2011-02-14 06:35:55 <rapacity> archlinux
1023 2011-02-14 06:37:12 <rapacity> had to install amdstream as well to get it to work
1024 2011-02-14 06:37:32 <presence> if you change drivers you probably do have to reinstall the stream sdk
1025 2011-02-14 06:38:41 <devon_hillard> is this the link: http://developer.amd.com/gpu/AMDAPPSDK/Pages/default.aspx ?
1026 2011-02-14 06:38:53 <presence> looks like it
1027 2011-02-14 06:39:00 <presence> although you want archived sdk
1028 2011-02-14 06:39:36 <devon_hillard> I already installed that
1029 2011-02-14 06:40:14 mail2345 has joined
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1033 2011-02-14 06:48:54 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: ok, I figured out I had to downgrade to version 2.1 of the SKD, but now I get an exception
1034 2011-02-14 06:48:58 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: http://pastebin.com/tzXii7Sk
1035 2011-02-14 06:50:01 <Diablo-D3> somethings broken on your setup
1036 2011-02-14 06:50:11 <Diablo-D3> are you sure you setup the SDK correctly?
1037 2011-02-14 06:50:24 grubles has joined
1038 2011-02-14 06:50:29 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1039 2011-02-14 06:50:54 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: this is my install report: http://pastebin.com/b2NcQvSV
1040 2011-02-14 06:51:28 <presence> looks like your LD_LIBRARY_PATH isnt updated
1041 2011-02-14 06:51:36 <Diablo-D3> presence: I think hes on windows
1042 2011-02-14 06:51:41 <Diablo-D3> he'll have to follow the instructions in the PDF
1043 2011-02-14 06:51:45 <presence> oh ok
1044 2011-02-14 06:51:46 <devon_hillard> win 7 64bit
1045 2011-02-14 07:00:06 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1046 2011-02-14 07:00:08 dissipate_ has joined
1047 2011-02-14 07:00:36 bitcoiner has joined
1048 2011-02-14 07:00:43 ntosme2 has joined
1049 2011-02-14 07:01:24 <ntosme2> it appears my nvidia crap won't even overclock, the settings just don't stick
1050 2011-02-14 07:08:36 <ntosme2> maybe it's time to play with natty
1051 2011-02-14 07:09:59 <devon_hillard> what is the switch in poclbm to connect to slush's pool?
1052 2011-02-14 07:10:42 darkskiez2 has joined
1053 2011-02-14 07:11:51 <devon_hillard> nvm, it should work now :)
1054 2011-02-14 07:11:59 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1055 2011-02-14 07:12:22 darsk1ez has joined
1056 2011-02-14 07:12:53 <Validus> type pocblm -help
1057 2011-02-14 07:13:27 <Validus> ya i typo'd that but u see what i mean
1058 2011-02-14 07:14:34 <devon_hillard> --device=1 selects the GPU, whereas --device=0 uses just the CPU
1059 2011-02-14 07:15:14 <Validus> -d 0 uses gpu on mine. it should tell you
1060 2011-02-14 07:15:35 darkskiez2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1061 2011-02-14 07:16:07 <Validus> when in doubt always type -help
1062 2011-02-14 07:16:53 <devon_hillard> m0mchil hangs out is in this chat room?
1063 2011-02-14 07:18:50 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1064 2011-02-14 07:19:29 <devon_hillard> using --device=0 gets around 3Mh/s and the CPU goes to 100% activity (with no GPU activity), so it's using the CPU rather than the GPU
1065 2011-02-14 07:20:15 <Validus> if you run it without the -d option itll tell you what the #'s goto
1066 2011-02-14 07:20:42 <ntosme2> mine has no cpu option listed and my gpu is 0
1067 2011-02-14 07:20:49 <devon_hillard> strange
1068 2011-02-14 07:21:14 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1069 2011-02-14 07:21:15 <Validus> just type poclbm
1070 2011-02-14 07:21:42 <devon_hillard> it's happily mining right now on the slush pool
1071 2011-02-14 07:21:51 <Validus> No device specified or device not found, use -d to specify one of the following
1072 2011-02-14 07:21:51 <Validus> [0] ATI RV710
1073 2011-02-14 07:21:51 <Validus> [1] Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU E6600 @ 3.06GHz
1074 2011-02-14 07:25:20 <devon_hillard> I'd like to know what went wrong with the diablo setup, though
1075 2011-02-14 07:25:47 <Diablo-D3> is slush's pool down again?
1076 2011-02-14 07:25:53 <devon_hillard> no
1077 2011-02-14 07:25:55 <Validus> no
1078 2011-02-14 07:26:26 <Diablo-D3> meh it was for a couple seconds
1079 2011-02-14 07:26:47 <devon_hillard> it's getting battered by slashdot, I hear
1080 2011-02-14 07:26:57 <Validus> ya it said maintenance for like 3 seconds then went back to normal
1081 2011-02-14 07:27:19 <Validus> from what i saw. i just got done watching a movie so i dont know heh
1082 2011-02-14 07:31:24 <devon_hillard> slush: what is the particular slashdot thread?
1083 2011-02-14 07:31:55 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1084 2011-02-14 07:32:27 bitcoiner has joined
1085 2011-02-14 07:32:50 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: you mean this?  http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/10/189246/Online-Only-Currency-BitCoin-Reaches-Dollar-Parity
1086 2011-02-14 07:33:11 <devon_hillard> jgarzik: thanks :)
1087 2011-02-14 07:36:56 ForceMajeure has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1088 2011-02-14 07:37:30 <ntosme2> so how many of you are finding a block daily?
1089 2011-02-14 07:38:48 <devon_hillard> I've only found one block on the slush pool
1090 2011-02-14 07:39:15 <devon_hillard> statistically, I should get one every week or so
1091 2011-02-14 07:39:16 <afed> 33 blocks on slush pool
1092 2011-02-14 07:39:26 <ntosme2> so in general are people using pools or independently?
1093 2011-02-14 07:39:26 <afed> "D
1094 2011-02-14 07:39:55 <afed> pooled up even though i run 7 GPUs
1095 2011-02-14 07:40:10 <lfm> ntsoI think the smaller miners like cpu only people tend to use the pools.
1096 2011-02-14 07:40:15 <afed> evens out the flow of blocks, more predictable that way
1097 2011-02-14 07:40:33 <afed> flow of bitcoins i should sya
1098 2011-02-14 07:40:52 <ntosme2> afed: so wouldn't you statistically be generating faster independently?
1099 2011-02-14 07:41:04 <afed> ntosme2: statistically they should be the same
1100 2011-02-14 07:41:06 <lfm> ntosme2: yes
1101 2011-02-14 07:41:29 <lfm> afed there is more overhead and more chanmces for downtime with pools
1102 2011-02-14 07:41:34 <afed> yes
1103 2011-02-14 07:41:36 ForceMajeure has joined
1104 2011-02-14 07:41:40 <afed> that's overhead, not statistics
1105 2011-02-14 07:41:58 <devon_hillard> there could be potentially dead times during which the miner is not mining and trying to communicate with the server
1106 2011-02-14 07:42:03 ForceMajeure is now known as Guest18491
1107 2011-02-14 07:42:03 al_ has joined
1108 2011-02-14 07:42:23 <lfm> a whole extra layer of communications adds delays which can void chances
1109 2011-02-14 07:42:45 <jgarzik> smart miners would switch from one pool to another, to minimize income loss
1110 2011-02-14 07:43:23 <afed> jgarzik: or switch from pool to independent after a certain number of shares into the pool?
1111 2011-02-14 07:43:32 <afed> someone wronte a paper on that
1112 2011-02-14 07:43:50 <afed> the consensus seems to be that that behavior is cheating
1113 2011-02-14 07:44:06 <lfm> ya and slush has implemented countermeasures that make it way more difficult to know when to switch
1114 2011-02-14 07:44:06 <Validus> i dont see how switching a pool is income loss
1115 2011-02-14 07:44:07 <afed> there's an optimal point to switch from pool to indy to increase your return over just staying with the pool
1116 2011-02-14 07:44:17 <JFK911> Serious cheating would be making your miner only return artificially low difficulty hits.
1117 2011-02-14 07:44:27 <JFK911> Altho you'd have to be seriously mad at the pool to do that.
1118 2011-02-14 07:44:34 <JFK911> Just toss out the block winners.
1119 2011-02-14 07:44:47 <afed> lfm: if you're smart enough to come up with that method of cheating, you don't need the stats slush removed
1120 2011-02-14 07:44:52 <lfm> JFK911: what we're talking about is different
1121 2011-02-14 07:44:56 <afed> slush and the cheaters all know this
1122 2011-02-14 07:44:57 <JFK911> I know.
1123 2011-02-14 07:45:38 <afed> if you're like me and passed calc II by the skin of their teeth, the integrals are a little hard
1124 2011-02-14 07:45:50 <dissipate_> JFK911, how does it help you to toss out the block winners?
1125 2011-02-14 07:46:01 <JFK911> It doesn't really.  But it hurts the pool.
1126 2011-02-14 07:46:20 <dissipate_> JFK911, which means you will receive less too, no?
1127 2011-02-14 07:46:40 <Validus> well then dont join a pool and just wait
1128 2011-02-14 07:46:41 <JFK911> Only the shares you declined to report.
1129 2011-02-14 07:46:42 <Validus> and hope you get it
1130 2011-02-14 07:46:49 <lfm> dissipateyes but you still get shares of blocks other people find
1131 2011-02-14 07:47:08 <dissipate_> hmm
1132 2011-02-14 07:47:20 <JFK911> There may be no defense against such anti-social behaviour, too.
1133 2011-02-14 07:47:21 <dissipate_> what about bitpenny that gives you BTC for every hash of difficulty 1?
1134 2011-02-14 07:48:07 <lfm> dissipate_ it still has the overheads and greater downtime due to the inserted layer
1135 2011-02-14 07:48:31 <dissipate_> JFK911, sure there is. if you have been in the pool long enough, the pool can automatically calculate the probability that you are throwing out winning blocks over time by comparing the number of blocks you *should* have turned in as winners out of the total you have submitted thus far.
1136 2011-02-14 07:49:53 <dissipate_> once the probability gets high enough to determine  you are throwing out winning blocks, you get kicked out of the pool (however that works).
1137 2011-02-14 07:50:35 <lfm> dissipate_ can still be random chance
1138 2011-02-14 07:52:39 <dissipate_> lfm, true. but it's like the roommate you suspect is stealing from you. he may not be, but you move away anyways just to be sure.
1139 2011-02-14 07:53:46 <JFK911> dissipate_: Well, it can't justly penalize you, since it's only statistics.
1140 2011-02-14 07:53:54 <lfm> thad suck, pools suck in general imho
1141 2011-02-14 07:53:56 <dissipate_> lfm, if the probability threshold is set high enough, almost all of the people you kicked out would have been the 'anti-social' miners, with maybe a few with bad luck. :O
1142 2011-02-14 07:54:05 <JFK911> With preimage attacks, you may be able to intelligently select hashes to test which will meet the low difficulty, anyway
1143 2011-02-14 07:54:07 larsivi has joined
1144 2011-02-14 07:54:15 <JFK911> Thereby generating more shares
1145 2011-02-14 07:54:30 <JFK911> CPU could pick ranges while GPU miners could finish them off.
1146 2011-02-14 07:54:55 <lfm> JFK911: if you can do that you should throw out the pool and start doing it for yourself
1147 2011-02-14 07:55:14 <dissipate_> lfm, at some point, pools will be necessary for pretty much everyone, since at a certain point the difficulty level will be so high that winning blocks will be so rare that it would take years for an individual miner to find one.
1148 2011-02-14 07:55:35 <lfm> dissipateI dout it
1149 2011-02-14 07:55:41 <JFK911> Well, I think that it will be much more difficult to generate winning blocks that way.
1150 2011-02-14 07:55:58 <JFK911> But it could be easy enough to return results for pool work.
1151 2011-02-14 07:55:59 <dissipate_> lfm, difficulty is going up exponentially
1152 2011-02-14 07:56:14 <lfm> it doesnt forever
1153 2011-02-14 07:56:22 <dissipate_> lfm, at some point, the single dorm room dweller won't be able to generate a block for a loong long time.
1154 2011-02-14 07:56:45 <lfm> dissipate_ they dont matter anyway
1155 2011-02-14 07:57:03 <dissipate_> not forever, no, but as more and more miners go online, it's going to get really tough to generate a block, end of story.
1156 2011-02-14 07:57:17 <ntosme2> either that, or the housing department makes them shut down their gpu farm due to power usage
1157 2011-02-14 07:57:54 <JFK911> News at 11: Bitcoin miner killed during police raid - SWAT team believed there was a marijuana grow
1158 2011-02-14 07:58:20 <bk128> anyone see a problem with this rig I just ordered?  https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnEN-UY38coAdE9BTklLUDYyWnpfOUxqdnRxWkdmbmc&hl=en&authkey=CIeTjdoD  (I built the top config)
1159 2011-02-14 07:59:01 <dissipate_> lfm, why doesn't a single dorm room miner matter?
1160 2011-02-14 07:59:06 <bk128> I'm just worried about the 850w psu with 2x 5870's.
1161 2011-02-14 07:59:18 <dissipate_> i was talking to a guy running multiple GPUs in his dorm room and getting a  nice rake.
1162 2011-02-14 07:59:27 <lfm> dissipate_ they barley matter now
1163 2011-02-14 07:59:40 <JFK911> I have 2x overclocked 5870 on an Antec 500W Earthwatts piece of trash
1164 2011-02-14 07:59:47 <JFK911> also a fat core i7
1165 2011-02-14 07:59:54 <JFK911> have fun :)
1166 2011-02-14 08:00:01 <dissipate_> lfm, o rly? they stopped mattering since yesterday? who matters now?
1167 2011-02-14 08:00:19 <bk128> JFK911: no fires?
1168 2011-02-14 08:00:39 <JFK911> No
1169 2011-02-14 08:00:45 <bk128> nice :)
1170 2011-02-14 08:00:51 <JFK911> This has been going hard for a month
1171 2011-02-14 08:01:02 <bk128> Is OCing worth it?  does it void warranty/ decrease the lifetime of your cards?
1172 2011-02-14 08:01:08 <JFK911> GPU fans still under 50%
1173 2011-02-14 08:01:09 <JFK911> Well.
1174 2011-02-14 08:01:26 <JFK911> ATI's overclock panel is kind of weak.  It doesn't have much headroom for the 5870.
1175 2011-02-14 08:01:39 <JFK911> It seems that you can jack it up all the way without any effects.
1176 2011-02-14 08:01:43 <JFK911> I might try rivatuner, though.
1177 2011-02-14 08:01:49 <dissipate_> i think the official Bitcoin client is bad in terms of mining. it doesn't tell you how long it will take to find a block given your hash rate and current difficulty level and gives no indication that you should be using a GPU instead. furthermore, the mining feature in the client will be useless in the future since you will have to join a mining pool anyway.
1178 2011-02-14 08:02:01 <JFK911> But, still, hash rate increased by cranking up the clock.
1179 2011-02-14 08:02:35 <JFK911> Anyway I'd like to see a vendor prove I ruined the card by clocking
1180 2011-02-14 08:02:35 lzd_hz has joined
1181 2011-02-14 08:02:45 <JFK911> Just make sure it doesn't overheat.
1182 2011-02-14 08:03:40 <lfm> jfk read out the flash memeory see what the clock is set to?
1183 2011-02-14 08:03:51 <JFK911> No, you can simply ask the video card.
1184 2011-02-14 08:03:51 <ntosme2> smart vendors would include an eeprom that recorded the max clock rates
1185 2011-02-14 08:03:58 <JFK911> Also, it clocks down when idle.
1186 2011-02-14 08:04:04 <JFK911> I haven't modded any bios.
1187 2011-02-14 08:04:13 <JFK911> Or played with bios images
1188 2011-02-14 08:04:28 <JFK911> Heheehe
1189 2011-02-14 08:04:33 <JFK911> There is an eeprom on the card!
1190 2011-02-14 08:04:44 <lfm> in the chip
1191 2011-02-14 08:04:45 <JFK911> I think, if you change two bytes, you get a Fire3D card instead of a Radeon :D
1192 2011-02-14 08:04:46 <bk128> data logging clock speeds to an eeprom in hardware would be relatively easy
1193 2011-02-14 08:05:16 <bk128> logging temperatures would be easy too
1194 2011-02-14 08:05:37 <dissipate_> lfm, no answer to my question as to who matters now for mining?
1195 2011-02-14 08:05:45 <JFK911> Cool, they'll see I haven't overheated mine, if there's any trouble with it
1196 2011-02-14 08:05:52 <ntosme2> you might have to get out a hot-air rework station to re-write the memory hehe
1197 2011-02-14 08:05:53 <lfm> dissipatefigure it out for yourself
1198 2011-02-14 08:06:17 <JFK911> ntosme2: Only noobs need such equipment to deal with an SOIC8.
1199 2011-02-14 08:06:45 * bk128 <3's my aoyue rework station
1200 2011-02-14 08:07:06 <ntosme2> JFK911: remember that you have to make it look like you haven't modified anything
1201 2011-02-14 08:07:12 <dissipate_> lfm, umm, ok. i'll do that.
1202 2011-02-14 08:07:40 <ntosme2> I guess you could o source a fresh chip
1203 2011-02-14 08:07:41 <JFK911> Oh, Ya.  That's still moot for me, because I'm not overheating.
1204 2011-02-14 08:07:48 <bk128> that'd be hard to do.  reflow solder joints are much cleaner
1205 2011-02-14 08:08:10 <JFK911> I'd totally try turning my $100 craigslist item into a $2,900 Fire3D, though.
1206 2011-02-14 08:08:57 <lfm> it may have already failed binning for filegl tests
1207 2011-02-14 08:09:05 <lfm> firegl
1208 2011-02-14 08:09:36 <JFK911> It could be that the actual differences are in the driver, though.
1209 2011-02-14 08:09:50 <JFK911> That looks to be the case.
1210 2011-02-14 08:10:28 <genjix> how can i make static builds of bitcoin?
1211 2011-02-14 08:11:14 <lfm> genjix: alter make files
1212 2011-02-14 08:11:17 <JFK911> Adjust the linker
1213 2011-02-14 08:11:36 <ntosme2> just found dual 5770s for $200 on CL
1214 2011-02-14 08:12:04 <JFK911> Haggle!
1215 2011-02-14 08:12:36 <ntosme2> hmm $170
1216 2011-02-14 08:12:58 <ntosme2> they are $140 on newegg
1217 2011-02-14 08:13:02 <JFK911> Yeah.
1218 2011-02-14 08:13:37 <JFK911> You should tell him he'll get rich with bitcoin.
1219 2011-02-14 08:13:49 <ntosme2> now why would I do that
1220 2011-02-14 08:13:57 <JFK911> He's looking for suckers, with that price.
1221 2011-02-14 08:14:27 <JFK911> It will take him a while to get $200 in btc, then hassle about conversion.
1222 2011-02-14 08:14:29 <dissipate_> can someone tell me who 'really' matters now in terms of mining?
1223 2011-02-14 08:14:37 <ntosme2> suckers at $100 each?
1224 2011-02-14 08:14:59 <JFK911> Oh it looked like $200 each
1225 2011-02-14 08:15:16 <ntosme2> no, it's a decent deal as-is
1226 2011-02-14 08:15:44 <ntosme2> post is from a week ago...hope they're still around
1227 2011-02-14 08:16:54 <bk128> can anyone edit this wiki article? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_rig
1228 2011-02-14 08:17:29 <bk128> wait, I think I can.  does anyone mind I I update the configs?  5970's are discontinued and the links are dead
1229 2011-02-14 08:17:42 <bk128> also, PSU is overkill
1230 2011-02-14 08:18:17 <bk128> I'd probably replace the cards and PSU with the stuff I just bought https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnEN-UY38coAdE9BTklLUDYyWnpfOUxqdnRxWkdmbmc&hl=en&authkey=CIeTjdoD
1231 2011-02-14 08:18:57 <ntosme2> has anyone tried running 16x cards in 1x slots?
1232 2011-02-14 08:19:38 <lfm> ntsomI think ArtForz treid, he said it worked
1233 2011-02-14 08:19:41 <ntosme2> I have old mobos with only one 16x
1234 2011-02-14 08:19:56 <ntosme2> I may have to give that a go
1235 2011-02-14 08:20:29 <lfm> youd need a slot adapter, dunno where you get em
1236 2011-02-14 08:20:56 <ntosme2> I was just planning on trimming the plastic nib
1237 2011-02-14 08:21:16 <ntosme2> I've read elsewhere that that works fine
1238 2011-02-14 08:21:27 <lfm> ntosme2: hmm that might work too
1239 2011-02-14 08:23:13 <ntosme2> time to reboot into natty...back in a few
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1256 2011-02-14 09:39:44 <jaromil> genjix: i'm here now, sure we can test
1257 2011-02-14 09:40:06 <jaromil> genjix: this is what i'm working on right now BTW http://tomb.dyne.org also with tray icons :) useful to keep a wallet safe
1258 2011-02-14 09:46:19 al_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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1261 2011-02-14 09:57:46 <genjix> jaromil: hey
1262 2011-02-14 09:57:49 <genjix> you around still?
1263 2011-02-14 09:57:54 <jaromil> genjix: yep
1264 2011-02-14 09:58:16 <genjix> kk :p be back in 5 mins
1265 2011-02-14 09:58:21 <genjix> hold on
1266 2011-02-14 10:00:57 rli has joined
1267 2011-02-14 10:03:28 <genjix> sorry about that jaromil
1268 2011-02-14 10:03:46 <jaromil> np
1269 2011-02-14 10:04:06 <genjix> reason i asked you to stick around is because that tool you just showed me is similar to something i'm thinking about
1270 2011-02-14 10:04:28 <genjix> (automated backup of encrypted wallets)
1271 2011-02-14 10:04:53 <genjix> but i haven't run the idea past anyone yet to see if there's some major errors I'm missing.
1272 2011-02-14 10:05:00 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1273 2011-02-14 10:05:08 <genjix> atm bitcoin is very hacker-oriented and it's easy to lose your wallet
1274 2011-02-14 10:05:13 Validus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1275 2011-02-14 10:05:22 Validus has joined
1276 2011-02-14 10:05:26 <genjix> i want to build automated backup of gpg-encrypted wallets into the client
1277 2011-02-14 10:05:36 lfm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1278 2011-02-14 10:05:49 <genjix> then if you ever want to restore them you login/pass, it downloads you gpg keys
1279 2011-02-14 10:06:01 <genjix> then the encrypted wallet, then decrypts them for usage
1280 2011-02-14 10:06:07 lfm has joined
1281 2011-02-14 10:06:43 <genjix> i don't think that's *really* secure, but it has to be easy to use :(
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1283 2011-02-14 10:07:33 <jaromil> genjix: tomb has gone lots of development in the past time
1284 2011-02-14 10:07:54 <jaromil> it's well reviewed, minimal, low reqs and VERY secure (more than cryptkeeper or encrypted home)
1285 2011-02-14 10:08:23 <jaromil> tombs are mobile (move them around) and keys can be hidden in jpegs for backup (steganography)
1286 2011-02-14 10:08:40 <jaromil> last bit is incremental backup, i'm just implementing it with duplicity
1287 2011-02-14 10:08:45 <genjix> the bitcoin core, mtux is working on
1288 2011-02-14 10:08:59 bossweld has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1289 2011-02-14 10:09:01 <genjix> so i will push him definitely to use tomb
1290 2011-02-14 10:09:17 <genjix> but how about backing up of encrypted files? how does that work?
1291 2011-02-14 10:09:41 <jaromil> we have a debian 6 package available at 'deb http://apt.dyne.org/debian stable main'
1292 2011-02-14 10:09:43 <genjix> especially when the user is storing their keys on the remote server
1293 2011-02-14 10:09:50 <jaromil> there is also an ubuntu one but packages are older
1294 2011-02-14 10:10:10 <genjix> someone has a screenshot of awesome there :)
1295 2011-02-14 10:10:19 <jaromil> tomb tries to force the user to keep keys separated
1296 2011-02-14 10:10:32 <jaromil> genjix: it's my desktop :) of course i use awesome
1297 2011-02-14 10:10:37 <genjix> :D
1298 2011-02-14 10:10:51 <jaromil> so the keys are kept on a usb stick
1299 2011-02-14 10:10:57 <genjix> i write a lot of the awesome wiki tutorials if you check contributors :)
1300 2011-02-14 10:10:59 <jaromil> you have to stick it into the computer to open the tomb
1301 2011-02-14 10:11:04 <jaromil> ah! nice :D
1302 2011-02-14 10:11:43 <jaromil> i came to awesome after a long trip: afterstep, wmaker, larswm, ratpoison, fluxbox...
1303 2011-02-14 10:11:49 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1304 2011-02-14 10:11:52 <jaromil> now it feels awesomeness will never end
1305 2011-02-14 10:12:04 <jaromil> :)
1306 2011-02-14 10:12:06 <genjix> does tomb have ubuntu packages?
1307 2011-02-14 10:12:24 <jaromil> genjix: yes and no, i didn't rebuild, but its easy to.... just that i don't use ubuntu
1308 2011-02-14 10:12:31 <jaromil> there is a debian/ subdir ready for it
1309 2011-02-14 10:12:37 <jaromil> so you just go debuild and that's it
1310 2011-02-14 10:12:53 <jaromil> do you run ubuntu? i need help packaging :D
1311 2011-02-14 10:13:12 <jaromil> i mean i have ubuntu on the other partition of this disk but i never boot it
1312 2011-02-14 10:13:25 <jaromil> i'm not sure i can do a package for ubuntu from debian using cowbuilder
1313 2011-02-14 10:13:35 <genjix> i have no idea about packaging sadly
1314 2011-02-14 10:13:46 <jaromil> it's extremely easy at the end of the day
1315 2011-02-14 10:14:17 <jaromil> the "debian new maintainers guide" is the place to start
1316 2011-02-14 10:14:21 <genjix> haha that ascii art is wicked
1317 2011-02-14 10:14:25 <jaromil> all the rest is obsolete
1318 2011-02-14 10:14:26 <jaromil> ahahhah
1319 2011-02-14 10:14:58 <genjix> i get it
1320 2011-02-14 10:15:02 <genjix> cryptographic
1321 2011-02-14 10:15:04 <genjix> crypt
1322 2011-02-14 10:15:05 <genjix> tomb
1323 2011-02-14 10:15:13 <jaromil> yep :D
1324 2011-02-14 10:15:27 <jaromil> the icon is rly cool, done by a proper graffiti artist
1325 2011-02-14 10:15:47 <jaromil> i always liked to have skulls around my desktop
1326 2011-02-14 10:16:41 <jaromil> never been a dark eh, is just a typical alchemy thing i guess
1327 2011-02-14 10:16:56 <genjix> jaromil: https://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/File:Genjix_awesome_desktop.png
1328 2011-02-14 10:18:06 <jaromil> vry kewl signs up left
1329 2011-02-14 10:18:50 <jaromil> dunno how you do that but i like it
1330 2011-02-14 10:18:52 <genjix> i wrote a guide on it, https://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/Symbolic_tag_names
1331 2011-02-14 10:19:01 <jaromil> i didn't fiddle much , ah!
1332 2011-02-14 10:19:03 <jaromil> thanks
1333 2011-02-14 10:19:25 <genjix> just simple unicode trick :p
1334 2011-02-14 10:19:50 <jaromil> kewl
1335 2011-02-14 10:20:35 <jaromil> i need to understand where tags go
1336 2011-02-14 10:20:58 <jaromil> give me just a quick suggestion: is it good to learn and use vicious?
1337 2011-02-14 10:21:08 <genjix> no point
1338 2011-02-14 10:21:12 <jaromil> i don't know lua btw, but ok if feels like bash script
1339 2011-02-14 10:21:19 <jaromil> ah thanks! you save me a lot of time
1340 2011-02-14 10:21:23 <jaromil> the thing felt odd anyway
1341 2011-02-14 10:21:40 <genjix> i don't know lua either, but we know all programming languages once you know c++ ;)
1342 2011-02-14 10:21:46 <jaromil> exactly
1343 2011-02-14 10:21:52 <genjix> wish it was wrote in python...
1344 2011-02-14 10:22:06 <jaromil> mmm. i dislike python but lets avoid that topic :D
1345 2011-02-14 10:22:19 <genjix> .... my head exploded
1346 2011-02-14 10:22:23 <jaromil> i find javascript very convenient for an embedded script lang
1347 2011-02-14 10:22:41 <jaromil> lua is definitely easy to embed
1348 2011-02-14 10:22:45 <jaromil> but also v8-juice now...
1349 2011-02-14 10:23:49 <genjix> btw what happened in amsterdam? is that the end of everything there forever?
1350 2011-02-14 10:23:51 ArtForz has joined
1351 2011-02-14 10:23:56 <genjix> such a shame...
1352 2011-02-14 10:24:28 <jaromil> not sudden end, but sliding into eu-rope cleansing shit
1353 2011-02-14 10:24:51 <echelon> what's #pokerface
1354 2011-02-14 10:25:02 <genjix> echelon: poker.bitcoinvegas.com
1355 2011-02-14 10:25:16 <jaromil> genjix: where is that qt thing to try? :D
1356 2011-02-14 10:25:21 <genjix> jaromil: hard to regain freedoms once lost
1357 2011-02-14 10:25:28 <echelon> hmm
1358 2011-02-14 10:25:29 <jaromil> genjix: yes indeed
1359 2011-02-14 10:25:55 <genjix> i wrote about it on wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_squatting_ban
1360 2011-02-14 10:26:07 <jaromil> well done
1361 2011-02-14 10:26:09 <genjix> but didn't know much more so it was hard to fill it out with details
1362 2011-02-14 10:26:20 <jaromil> i might have a look at it
1363 2011-02-14 10:26:24 <echelon> eww... ☭
1364 2011-02-14 10:26:25 <jaromil> but now i'll get on tomb and duplicity
1365 2011-02-14 10:26:25 <genjix> and it's been tagged as factually inaccurate
1366 2011-02-14 10:26:29 <genjix> needs cleanup
1367 2011-02-14 10:26:30 <jaromil> then shower, then release :D
1368 2011-02-14 10:26:33 <genjix> kk
1369 2011-02-14 10:26:42 <genjix> thanks for the link
1370 2011-02-14 10:27:06 <genjix> btw if you're around caedes, can you poke him to take a look at my message?
1371 2011-02-14 10:27:13 <genjix> it's important.
1372 2011-02-14 10:27:42 <jaromil> ah ok. maybe i see him today, depends how is his cycle
1373 2011-02-14 10:27:49 <dissipate_> is anyone around here worried about the estimates for the next difficulty increase?
1374 2011-02-14 10:28:28 <genjix> jaromil: tell him to email nms-ugadmissions@kcl.ac.uk , quote 1011024932 and write me a reference as my 'supervisor'
1375 2011-02-14 10:28:35 <genjix> about my elite skills
1376 2011-02-14 10:29:13 <genjix> dissipate_: why would I be worried... more security for me ;)
1377 2011-02-14 10:29:28 <jaromil> lol
1378 2011-02-14 10:29:36 <dissipate_> genjix, but less BTC for each individual miner
1379 2011-02-14 10:29:46 <genjix> good.
1380 2011-02-14 10:29:53 <dissipate_> the payouts from the mining pools will be less for a given number of accepted hashes
1381 2011-02-14 10:30:01 <genjix> i heard this was a channel for minors
1382 2011-02-14 10:30:04 <genjix> i love minors.
1383 2011-02-14 10:30:35 altamic has quit (Read error: No route to host)
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1387 2011-02-14 10:31:18 <tcatm> genjix: I just downloaded your bitcoin client. What's the patch for?
1388 2011-02-14 10:31:24 <ArtForz> well, as it looks like price is stabilizing in the 1.0-1.1 range, higher difficulty is sorely needed
1389 2011-02-14 10:31:34 <genjix> tcatm: bitcoind github version
1390 2011-02-14 10:31:44 <genjix> i quote the link in the comment.
1391 2011-02-14 10:31:48 <tcatm> no I mean, what does it do?
1392 2011-02-14 10:32:23 <ArtForz> plot historic mtgox price / difficulty and you see why
1393 2011-02-14 10:32:35 <genjix> it moves initialisation of the rpc server thread to the very beginning of AppInit, and adds an isinitialized rpc method so I know when the core is starting up.
1394 2011-02-14 10:32:51 <genjix> discussion of the patch is here: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3419.0
1395 2011-02-14 10:33:47 <dissipate_> ArtForz, why is more needed? is bitcoin not secure enough with the current amount of hash production?
1396 2011-02-14 10:34:13 <genjix> nothing is ever secure enough.
1397 2011-02-14 10:35:33 <dsg> dissipate_: At the current difficulty, mining is too profitable.
1398 2011-02-14 10:35:41 <ArtForz> yep
1399 2011-02-14 10:37:00 <ArtForz> I could've sworn someone posted a difficulty/price char on the forum
1400 2011-02-14 10:37:03 <dissipate_> let me get something straight. suppose i had mining app that only included in the txs for the block it produced the tx to get its 50 bitcoins. would that work or not?
1401 2011-02-14 10:37:14 <ArtForz> that would work fine
1402 2011-02-14 10:37:23 <dissipate_> hahaha
1403 2011-02-14 10:37:38 mtgox2 has joined
1404 2011-02-14 10:37:39 <dissipate_> in that case no txs would ever get verified
1405 2011-02-14 10:37:48 <dissipate_> except for the ones bringing in coin for the miner. :P
1406 2011-02-14 10:38:22 <ArtForz> yep
1407 2011-02-14 10:38:24 <sipa> dissipate_: but you'd need a significant portion of the network switch to your miner
1408 2011-02-14 10:38:30 <dsg> dissipate_: But the miner doesn't get transaction fees either, so it's not a good strategy
1409 2011-02-14 10:38:46 <dsg> Besides, if enough people do this, you erode trust in bitcoin and make your own coins worth less.
1410 2011-02-14 10:39:00 <ArtForz> we already have miners doing that
1411 2011-02-14 10:39:03 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1412 2011-02-14 10:39:06 <ArtForz> as long as it's not a vast majority it doesnt really matter much
1413 2011-02-14 10:39:19 <genjix> what's the benefit to doing that?
1414 2011-02-14 10:39:23 <ArtForz> no clue
1415 2011-02-14 10:39:24 <dissipate_> those a-holes
1416 2011-02-14 10:39:24 <dissipate_> haha
1417 2011-02-14 10:39:36 <dissipate_> genjix, there is none except for them. they are griefers
1418 2011-02-14 10:39:57 <ArtForz> adding tx doesnt really slow down hashing, so no clue why'd you do that
1419 2011-02-14 10:40:01 <sipa> once tx fees are a significant portion of mining income, that problem will be solved :)
1420 2011-02-14 10:40:11 <ArtForz> yep
1421 2011-02-14 10:40:24 <genjix> so what if a government did this, drove the difficulty up but didn't process payments.
1422 2011-02-14 10:40:48 <ArtForz> then transactions would on average take more than 1 block to get into the chain
1423 2011-02-14 10:41:12 <dissipate_> genjix, exactly what i was thinking.
1424 2011-02-14 10:41:33 <dissipate_> not only would the government be hoarding bitcoins, they would be denying everyone else from getting their txs verified.
1425 2011-02-14 10:41:58 <dissipate_> seems like a good attack to me
1426 2011-02-14 10:42:14 <genjix> would it be possible to theoretically shun those blocks?
1427 2011-02-14 10:42:20 <ArtForz> hmmm... maybe
1428 2011-02-14 10:42:58 <ArtForz> it'd be tricky to avoid having the block chain fork all over the place
1429 2011-02-14 10:43:02 <genjix> have a ruleset that says each block cannot contain only a single mined coin
1430 2011-02-14 10:43:07 <genjix> must have 1 other tx
1431 2011-02-14 10:43:08 <ArtForz> that doesnt help
1432 2011-02-14 10:43:09 <dissipate_> in addition to that, if the government ramped up a huge mining operation that say found all of the blocks before next difficulty in a few seconds and then shut down, then the rest of the miners would be left with a huge difficulty and essentially get hosed.
1433 2011-02-14 10:43:19 <ArtForz> so miner includes a 0.01-btc-to-self tx
1434 2011-02-14 10:43:25 <ArtForz> now what?
1435 2011-02-14 10:43:32 <dissipate_> haha, yep
1436 2011-02-14 10:44:23 <dissipate_> well, i for one am glad most miners aren't doing that.
1437 2011-02-14 10:44:25 <ArtForz> you'd have to add some rule ala "if a block doesnt include a TX that I've seen X blocks ago and *should* get into the block by standard rules, ignore it
1438 2011-02-14 10:44:47 <dissipate_> as it was said before, if they did, they would undermine the value of their own bitcoins, because the demand would go down due to lack of verification.
1439 2011-02-14 10:44:50 <ArtForz> problem is, that'd cause chain splits
1440 2011-02-14 10:45:27 <ArtForz> a new client joining would accept the tx-less block just fine, while clients that saw a bunch of tx a while ago won't
1441 2011-02-14 10:46:05 <dissipate_> yep
1442 2011-02-14 10:46:10 <ArtForz> the question is... is that really a problem
1443 2011-02-14 10:46:11 <dissipate_> that would be a big problem.
1444 2011-02-14 10:46:56 <ArtForz> yeah, I think it won't work
1445 2011-02-14 10:47:07 <genjix> how about adjusting the difficulty depending on the number of lingering txs that need processing?
1446 2011-02-14 10:47:21 <ArtForz> again, same problem
1447 2011-02-14 10:47:22 <dissipate_> ArtForz, i think this will become much less of an issue when everyone is forced into a mining pool anyways.
1448 2011-02-14 10:47:29 <genjix> oh yeah
1449 2011-02-14 10:47:42 <ArtForz> we have no reliable way of knowing which txs are "queued"
1450 2011-02-14 10:48:16 <genjix> sure you do
1451 2011-02-14 10:48:16 <lfm> dissipate_ no one will be "forced" into a pool
1452 2011-02-14 10:48:24 <genjix> use bayesian analysis
1453 2011-02-14 10:48:34 <da2ce7> what is the best way to have anonymous and publicly verifiable signatures?
1454 2011-02-14 10:48:41 <dissipate_> lfm, when it takes you 8 years to produce a block, you will be.
1455 2011-02-14 10:48:58 <genjix> da2ce7: gpg public key
1456 2011-02-14 10:49:08 <ArtForz> that just means you don't have enough hardware
1457 2011-02-14 10:49:14 <lfm> dissipate_ nope if its not profitable to mine solo I just dont mine, no pool
1458 2011-02-14 10:49:22 <da2ce7> but you must know the public key... 1:1 relationship.
1459 2011-02-14 10:49:26 <da2ce7> so it can be tracked.
1460 2011-02-14 10:49:34 <ArtForz> I think long-term mining pools are pretty much a dead end
1461 2011-02-14 10:49:37 <dissipate_> ArtForz, when overall ghash rate gets to a certain point, an individual miner won't be able to produce many blocks.
1462 2011-02-14 10:49:42 <sipa> i believe satoshi said somewhere he'd modify bitcoin to ignore blocks created which seem to "miss" a significant amount of lingering transactions
1463 2011-02-14 10:49:47 <dissipate_> lfm, get ready to bow out!
1464 2011-02-14 10:49:59 <da2ce7> something like a the doubble blind system that open transactions uses...
1465 2011-02-14 10:50:00 <genjix> ok so the problem with my last idea is if the government would spam loads of tx's to fill the queue
1466 2011-02-14 10:50:08 <ArtForz> what is "an individual miner" ? a guy with a GPU ? a guy with 100 GPUs? a company with 1000?
1467 2011-02-14 10:50:09 <genjix> and hyperinflate the value of bitcoins
1468 2011-02-14 10:50:15 <da2ce7> or is there annother way to do it?
1469 2011-02-14 10:50:16 <genjix> by making the difficult drop super low
1470 2011-02-14 10:50:24 <dissipate_> ArtForz, a guy with a GPU
1471 2011-02-14 10:50:30 <sipa> i fear the only long-term future for mining is specialized hardware in large facilities in which you can invest
1472 2011-02-14 10:50:33 <dissipate_> ArtForz, basically a guy in a dorm
1473 2011-02-14 10:50:50 <sipa> and get some %
1474 2011-02-14 10:50:54 <ArtForz> yes
1475 2011-02-14 10:50:59 <dissipate_> sipa, then bitcoin is dead because those facilities could be shut down or monitored by governments
1476 2011-02-14 10:51:05 <genjix> why doesnt bitcoin client have mining automatically on but with a very low generation rate?
1477 2011-02-14 10:51:11 <ArtForz> mining tends towards "highest hash/$ wins"
1478 2011-02-14 10:51:15 <sipa> dissipate_: but anyone can create such a facility
1479 2011-02-14 10:51:30 <dissipate_> sipa, it's too high profile though, imo.
1480 2011-02-14 10:51:34 <genjix> anyone can create cannabis farms or money factories...
1481 2011-02-14 10:51:43 <sipa> anyone is a big word
1482 2011-02-14 10:51:44 <dissipate_> sipa, a large facility can be shut down with just a search warrant
1483 2011-02-14 10:51:52 <lfm> ArtForz: by "in a dorm" he is implying free power
1484 2011-02-14 10:51:56 <genjix> >> why doesnt bitcoin client have mining automatically on but with a very low generation rate?
1485 2011-02-14 10:52:00 rli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1486 2011-02-14 10:52:09 <ArtForz> genjix: what would be the point of that?
1487 2011-02-14 10:52:14 <ArtForz> all you need is cheap power and a few $M for specialised hardware
1488 2011-02-14 10:52:39 <genjix> wouldn't every person using bitcoin's combined CPU power be more than any specialised mining kit?
1489 2011-02-14 10:52:42 <dissipate_> lfm, IMO, the most successful miners will be the ones who can do it for the cheapest and the lowest profile
1490 2011-02-14 10:52:49 <genjix> a few specialised miners
1491 2011-02-14 10:52:51 <sipa> dissipate_: i suppose some governments in the world will either be bitcoin-friendly, stupid or uninterested :)
1492 2011-02-14 10:52:59 <sipa> which is enough
1493 2011-02-14 10:53:01 <ArtForz> errr... no.
1494 2011-02-14 10:53:05 <genjix> ok
1495 2011-02-14 10:53:27 <dissipate_> sipa, and those governments would become interested when the U.S. comes a knockin'
1496 2011-02-14 10:53:40 <sipa> fine facility gets shut down
1497 2011-02-14 10:53:45 <sipa> difficulty drops
1498 2011-02-14 10:53:51 <sipa> big solo miners start again
1499 2011-02-14 10:53:55 <dissipate_> sorry, i think specialized hardware in large buildings defeats the whole idea of bitcoin :(
1500 2011-02-14 10:54:02 <ArtForz> why?
1501 2011-02-14 10:54:24 <sipa> bitcoin is made to be independent from governments
1502 2011-02-14 10:54:27 <dissipate_> because as i said above, such facilities are easy targets for governments (or other nefarious institutions)
1503 2011-02-14 10:54:53 <dissipate_> it's basically increasing centralization
1504 2011-02-14 10:55:03 <[Noodles]> then it'll be shut down, then what? you can start mining again
1505 2011-02-14 10:55:04 <sipa> that doesn't mean the economic game that people mining play won't force away from end user solo mining :)
1506 2011-02-14 10:55:50 <dissipate_> [Noodles], right. but at that point the difficulty level might be so high that individual miners would be banished forever.
1507 2011-02-14 10:56:07 <ArtForz> "forever" is a very long time...
1508 2011-02-14 10:56:08 <dissipate_> e.g. they wouldn't have enough computing power to get to the next difficulty level for the massive drop
1509 2011-02-14 10:56:22 <lfm> and the geeks in their basements with their parent paying their power bills
1510 2011-02-14 10:56:59 <dissipate_> i can easily see a scenario where the government raids a number of those large facilities, shuts them down, leaving the difficulty level extremely high. all solo miners and relatively small mining pools are done for. :(
1511 2011-02-14 10:57:14 <ArtForz> so that means for a while low # of blocks will be generated, TX carrying fees will accumulate, mining will become more profitable ...
1512 2011-02-14 10:57:29 <ArtForz> and you get... new mining ops popping up all over the place
1513 2011-02-14 10:57:31 <dissipate_> and profits attract governments...
1514 2011-02-14 10:58:08 <dissipate_> if there was just a single multi-million dollar a year mining op, the government would probably pick it up on the radar
1515 2011-02-14 10:58:21 <[Noodles]> if there was aliens...
1516 2011-02-14 10:58:24 <dissipate_> they would be like: wtf is this? we can't have this
1517 2011-02-14 10:58:26 <xelister> dissipate_: this profits are NOTHING compared to say farmacy or oil or war etc
1518 2011-02-14 10:58:47 <genjix> and undetectable :)
1519 2011-02-14 10:58:55 <xelister> dissipate_: then you should be like
1520 2011-02-14 10:59:10 <xelister> government, you...  can't touch this
1521 2011-02-14 10:59:12 <xelister> -o-
1522 2011-02-14 10:59:14 <xelister> \o/
1523 2011-02-14 10:59:18 <xelister> /o\
1524 2011-02-14 10:59:21 <xelister> can't touch this
1525 2011-02-14 10:59:55 <xelister> no, wait.  I forgot Americans are bunch of scarred useless authority-fearing far slave-morons.  you're right then, dissipate_
1526 2011-02-14 10:59:57 <dissipate_> ArtForz, i suppose if there were enough midsize and small size mining ops it wouldn't be as much of a problem. but a number of those could get shut down in any event.
1527 2011-02-14 11:00:05 <xelister> (but we can hope in the other parts of world)
1528 2011-02-14 11:00:21 <dissipate_> xelister, they are actually. why do you think we need bitcoin in the first place? :O
1529 2011-02-14 11:00:24 <xelister>  *fat
1530 2011-02-14 11:00:38 <xelister> dissipate_: hm? bitcoins are good for everyone
1531 2011-02-14 11:00:40 <genjix> u fat
1532 2011-02-14 11:01:06 <xelister> but americans are too scared faggots to even fence off some uneducated niggers @ airports from groping their families. So what can they do
1533 2011-02-14 11:01:24 <xelister> other then be a 'hero' by tittwining.. twitter wining
1534 2011-02-14 11:01:32 <dissipate_> maybe i'm just paranoid, but i think a major mining op would not be smiled upon by the federales
1535 2011-02-14 11:01:46 <ArtForz> err... why?
1536 2011-02-14 11:02:02 <xelister> usa: anti-TSA protests twits and YT: 9234239842   actuall victories in shutting down overzelous security on airports: 0
1537 2011-02-14 11:02:03 <lfm> federales are in mexico?
1538 2011-02-14 11:02:10 <dissipate_> um, maybe because what they are doing is a bitch slap to governments everywhere?
1539 2011-02-14 11:02:35 <xelister> ArtForz: he is correct. Even in say Poland, it is objective of the governors, to fuck up innovative and progressive business ideas that go big
1540 2011-02-14 11:02:47 <xelister> or just to fuck up any idea that is not paying bribes
1541 2011-02-14 11:02:58 <ArtForz> so... pay bribes, duh.
1542 2011-02-14 11:03:16 <dissipate_> setting up a mining business is like giving government everywhere the middle finger. and not just the government in your country but every government around the world.
1543 2011-02-14 11:03:23 <xelister> and get entire facility totally destroyed by involvment in bribes and/or by revange of this and other bribe takers, sure
1544 2011-02-14 11:04:12 <ArtForz> xelister: whatever
1545 2011-02-14 11:05:04 <dissipate_> maybe i'm wrong, maybe i'm paranoid, but i just have this feeling that once they found out that bitcoin *was* a threat to their power over the monetary system and some bitcoin mining company was operating in their backyard, well you do the math.
1546 2011-02-14 11:05:28 <xelister> ArtForz: my friend poked around a bit with such ideas. This ideas in fact can be a problem, really.  Well Im sorry but it seems it is the case.  We should build up democracy (good one: transparency, not idiot voters etc) a bit to make ideas like btc work better
1547 2011-02-14 11:05:29 <genjix> sign me up to be the first free software terrorist
1548 2011-02-14 11:05:47 <genjix> on mah bitcoin jihad
1549 2011-02-14 11:05:57 <ArtForz> xelister: so the free market is bad?
1550 2011-02-14 11:06:00 <genjix> LINNUUXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!
1551 2011-02-14 11:06:01 sbc has joined
1552 2011-02-14 11:06:09 <genjix> ~boom~
1553 2011-02-14 11:06:10 <xelister> ArtForz: no, the stupid governments are destroying it
1554 2011-02-14 11:06:44 <xelister> genjix: this is already what ati's doing. Linuuuuuuuuuuuux! Wzzzzzzz BOOM fuck your unsaved data
1555 2011-02-14 11:07:01 <genjix> haha you made me chuckle out loud
1556 2011-02-14 11:07:22 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1557 2011-02-14 11:07:29 <ArtForz> yeah, I think there's a special circle in hell for ATI driver devs
1558 2011-02-14 11:07:41 <genjix> circle jerk
1559 2011-02-14 11:07:53 <xelister> they all get S3 Trios and are tasked to implement OpenCL on that
1560 2011-02-14 11:08:23 <sipa> lol
1561 2011-02-14 11:08:51 <dissipate_> is there an actual incorporated mining operation in existence yet?
1562 2011-02-14 11:08:58 <xelister> dissipate_: perhaps
1563 2011-02-14 11:09:13 <dissipate_> i'd keep an eye on that. :D
1564 2011-02-14 11:09:15 <xelister> perhaps someone might do something like that in central eu in next week
1565 2011-02-14 11:09:18 <ArtForz> erm, what do you think I'm doing here?
1566 2011-02-14 11:09:30 <xelister> ArtForz: as officiall company?
1567 2011-02-14 11:09:32 <dissipate_> ArtForz, you opened an official business?
1568 2011-02-14 11:09:33 <ArtForz> yes
1569 2011-02-14 11:09:38 <dissipate_> oh snap
1570 2011-02-14 11:09:40 <xelister> woot, which one?
1571 2011-02-14 11:09:41 <andrew12> someone highlight me
1572 2011-02-14 11:09:44 <ArtForz> did so quite a while ago
1573 2011-02-14 11:09:58 * xelister puts a pocket flashlight @ andrew12's lower-back
1574 2011-02-14 11:10:14 <andrew12> hmm
1575 2011-02-14 11:10:21 <xelister> did it felt any good for you
1576 2011-02-14 11:10:27 <xelister> ArtForz: which onnne :P
1577 2011-02-14 11:10:41 <genjix> http://bash.org/?937807
1578 2011-02-14 11:10:55 <xelister> genjix: pendi'n
1579 2011-02-14 11:11:04 <genjix> 15 secs of fame hopefully :)
1580 2011-02-14 11:11:06 satamusic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1581 2011-02-14 11:11:09 <andrew12> Quote #937807 is pending moderation.
1582 2011-02-14 11:11:27 <andrew12> qdb.us > bash.org
1583 2011-02-14 11:12:38 <genjix> oh is that where all the kids go now?
1584 2011-02-14 11:12:40 <da2ce7> found it... http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.60.7506&rep=rep1&type=pdf
1585 2011-02-14 11:13:00 <da2ce7> has anyone researched Anonymous Signature Schemes in depth here?
1586 2011-02-14 11:13:23 <xelister> ArtForz: whiiiiiiiiiich onneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
1587 2011-02-14 11:13:26 <xelister> >_>
1588 2011-02-14 11:13:28 <ArtForz> ?
1589 2011-02-14 11:13:33 <xelister> ArtForz: your corporation
1590 2011-02-14 11:13:47 <ArtForz> yes?
1591 2011-02-14 11:13:52 <dissipate_> ArtForz, what are you going to list your occupation as? destroyer of fiat currencies? :P
1592 2011-02-14 11:13:56 <xelister> care to share it's name yet?
1593 2011-02-14 11:14:00 <ArtForz> nope
1594 2011-02-14 11:14:17 * xelister 100 BTC bounty to discover >_>
1595 2011-02-14 11:14:18 <ArtForz> nature of business description is so generic it could be pretty much anything
1596 2011-02-14 11:14:35 <dissipate_> hehe, yeah, you are fine for now.
1597 2011-02-14 11:14:38 <dissipate_> way off the radar
1598 2011-02-14 11:14:42 <xelister> anyway, you should try mining by tor.
1599 2011-02-14 11:14:49 <ArtForz> did the same thing way back for my mmorpg goldfarming operation
1600 2011-02-14 11:14:56 <xelister> well you probably do... tor+vps even or something
1601 2011-02-14 11:15:16 <dissipate_> but why do you need an official business if all your profits are in BTC?
1602 2011-02-14 11:15:30 <xelister> ok, so anyway a new, legal company, OFFICIALLY supporting bitcoin, might arise in next weeks in central EU
1603 2011-02-14 11:16:04 <xelister> dissipate_: not everyone wants to go around taxes
1604 2011-02-14 11:16:10 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1605 2011-02-14 11:16:11 <ArtForz> dissipate: well, have fun finding a ASIC company willing to take BTC
1606 2011-02-14 11:16:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108023 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 840 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 9 hours, 28 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33913.72340929
1607 2011-02-14 11:16:16 <dissipate_> xelister, i do
1608 2011-02-14 11:16:25 <xelister> dissipate_: yes, brag about it more londly here
1609 2011-02-14 11:16:46 <dissipate_> i *want* to go around taxes. doesn't mean i do.
1610 2011-02-14 11:16:47 <UukGoblin> 34k
1611 2011-02-14 11:16:54 <UukGoblin> so I guess it'll end up just below 40
1612 2011-02-14 11:16:59 <UukGoblin> but next iteration up to 40k surely
1613 2011-02-14 11:17:08 <xelister> surly there must be no gov agents in most high profile counter-USD competition channel
1614 2011-02-14 11:17:17 <ArtForz> simple solution, set up a LLC for the mining op
1615 2011-02-14 11:17:31 <xelister> what the fuck
1616 2011-02-14 11:17:36 <xelister> WHAT THE FUCK 0_)
1617 2011-02-14 11:17:46 <xelister> diff going to 30.000 already? or 40.000 ?
1618 2011-02-14 11:17:46 <UukGoblin> xelister, are you starting up a legal bitcoin company?
1619 2011-02-14 11:17:49 <andrew12> ok EVERYONE STOP MINING :O)
1620 2011-02-14 11:18:05 <dissipate_> xelister, there probably isn't actually. BTC is off the radar. A. it is too small. B. only a few in government would be able to figure out what it was and if they did their superiors wouldn't care because of A
1621 2011-02-14 11:18:07 <UukGoblin> over my dead radeon andrew12!
1622 2011-02-14 11:18:14 <andrew12> bahaha
1623 2011-02-14 11:19:17 <dissipate_> some old ass senator would be like: "Bitcoin whaaaat? speeak a little lowder!"
1624 2011-02-14 11:20:05 * da2ce7 wishes he was a cypto expert
1625 2011-02-14 11:20:13 <ArtForz> "well, it's not like a truck"
1626 2011-02-14 11:20:23 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, any news on your ASICs? :-)
1627 2011-02-14 11:20:55 <ArtForz> looks like they'll be here tomorrow, UPS is being slow again
1628 2011-02-14 11:21:06 <UukGoblin> mhm
1629 2011-02-14 11:21:10 <UukGoblin> cool :-)
1630 2011-02-14 11:21:16 <UukGoblin> can't wait to hear about them :-]
1631 2011-02-14 11:21:30 <UukGoblin> btw, the accelero cooler /does/ connect the VRMs
1632 2011-02-14 11:21:36 <UukGoblin> to the heatsink
1633 2011-02-14 11:21:37 <ArtForz> no it doesnt
1634 2011-02-14 11:21:44 <da2ce7> ArtForz, what do you think about doing a pooled financed order?
1635 2011-02-14 11:21:47 <ArtForz> it has a crappy alu thingy for the rear VRMs
1636 2011-02-14 11:22:18 <UukGoblin> yeah but that alu thingy does connect to them via this thermal spongey thing
1637 2011-02-14 11:22:26 <ArtForz> so?
1638 2011-02-14 11:22:33 <UukGoblin> and it's got a fan blowing straight at it
1639 2011-02-14 11:22:40 <ArtForz> well, feel free to try it
1640 2011-02-14 11:23:01 <UukGoblin> will do ;-)
1641 2011-02-14 11:23:25 <ArtForz> I got 2 5970s with acceleros on em, rear VRMs hit 110°C at 100% fan at 840Mhz and stock V
1642 2011-02-14 11:23:36 <UukGoblin> well agreed it's not copper connected to the heatpipe, but I think it's still better than nothing
1643 2011-02-14 11:23:53 <ArtForz> it's not nothing, but worse than the stock fansink
1644 2011-02-14 11:24:10 <ArtForz> it *does* cool the GPUs pretty good
1645 2011-02-14 11:25:38 <ArtForz> I might have an idea about how to improve VRM cooling
1646 2011-02-14 11:26:17 <ArtForz> not 100% sure if it fits, but it looks like you could fit a VRM-R3 under the accelero
1647 2011-02-14 11:26:20 <xelister> ArtForz: what might be totall Ghash/s you're getting in next 2 months?
1648 2011-02-14 11:26:26 <xelister> because it may increase diff a lot :{
1649 2011-02-14 11:26:34 <UukGoblin> hrm I'll have another look later but I was under the impression the stock heatsink didn't attach to the VRMs...?
1650 2011-02-14 11:26:39 <ArtForz> it does
1651 2011-02-14 11:26:48 <ArtForz> probably another 19.2Gh/s
1652 2011-02-14 11:27:07 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: it sure as hell does
1653 2011-02-14 11:27:17 <xelister> so ~20 Gh/s added during next 2 month just by ArtForz
1654 2011-02-14 11:27:20 <xelister> sigh :(
1655 2011-02-14 11:27:25 <ArtForz> notice the thermal pads on the "strut" under the fan
1656 2011-02-14 11:27:33 <xelister> what is currect incrase of diff?
1657 2011-02-14 11:27:39 <xelister> like 20% each 1.5 weeks?
1658 2011-02-14 11:27:51 <ArtForz> http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/cypress-4/hd5970-cooler2.jpg
1659 2011-02-14 11:28:29 <ArtForz> see the strip of pad on the left?
1660 2011-02-14 11:28:48 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, ah, there
1661 2011-02-14 11:29:09 <UukGoblin> but doesn't the just connect to the black chassis?
1662 2011-02-14 11:29:19 <UukGoblin> i.e. not the copper/alu heatsink?
1663 2011-02-14 11:29:27 <ArtForz> that black chassis is alu
1664 2011-02-14 11:29:32 <ArtForz> and ribbed on the top
1665 2011-02-14 11:29:48 <UukGoblin> yeah
1666 2011-02-14 11:29:58 <ArtForz> but yeah, thats why the stock cooler is pretty "meh" for cooling those rear VRMs
1667 2011-02-14 11:30:05 <UukGoblin> ok well you're most likely right if you actually measured the temp :-)
1668 2011-02-14 11:30:36 <UukGoblin> I find it tricky to point the meter directly at the VRM, there's not much space there
1669 2011-02-14 11:31:00 <ArtForz> run windows, use GPU-Z or rivatuner to read VRM temps
1670 2011-02-14 11:32:53 <ArtForz> btw, that pic also shows why replacing the fan on stock 5970 cooler is a pain
1671 2011-02-14 11:33:32 <ArtForz> see the 3 countersunk screws under the fan hub?, the 2 right ones are halfways under the VRM thermal strip
1672 2011-02-14 11:33:47 <UukGoblin> ooh... VRMs have thermometers on them? 8-O
1673 2011-02-14 11:34:12 <ArtForz> yes, eeach DrMOS has it's own internal temp sensor
1674 2011-02-14 11:35:34 <Animeking> :| Mt Gox's site is a reputable one right! D:
1675 2011-02-14 11:35:40 <ArtForz> yea
1676 2011-02-14 11:35:44 <Animeking> I'm going to try and sell 'some' for now lol
1677 2011-02-14 11:36:51 <Animeking> I don't get what the dark pool is
1678 2011-02-14 11:37:24 <ArtForz> orders that don't show up in the order book
1679 2011-02-14 11:37:59 <Animeking> oh
1680 2011-02-14 11:39:10 <Animeking> Hmm, surprised I don't need to give out my 'bc address'
1681 2011-02-14 11:39:37 <Animeking> Oh
1682 2011-02-14 11:39:38 <Animeking> now I get it
1683 2011-02-14 11:46:35 <genjix> Animeking
1684 2011-02-14 11:46:40 <genjix> what a nerdy name XD
1685 2011-02-14 11:46:46 <Animeking> I'm a nerd :)
1686 2011-02-14 11:47:14 <genjix> i want a cool name like that
1687 2011-02-14 11:47:15 <Animeking> I'm not sure I trust liberty reserve :\
1688 2011-02-14 11:47:27 <genjix> Pokemonmaster
1689 2011-02-14 11:47:45 <MacRohard> LR is probably run by the CIA
1690 2011-02-14 11:47:46 djoot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1691 2011-02-14 11:48:02 <MacRohard> to facilitate their various cybercrime assets
1692 2011-02-14 11:49:23 <genjix> oh good
1693 2011-02-14 11:49:27 <genjix> gotta support our boys
1694 2011-02-14 11:49:42 dissipate_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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1698 2011-02-14 11:50:28 skeledrew has joined
1699 2011-02-14 11:50:48 <MacRohard> LR/Monkey Bookers etc are the new BCCI
1700 2011-02-14 11:52:33 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1701 2011-02-14 11:53:17 molecular has joined
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1703 2011-02-14 11:54:45 <Animeking> :\
1704 2011-02-14 11:57:27 Hackbat has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1707 2011-02-14 12:04:48 <xelister> ;; botsnack
1708 2011-02-14 12:04:49 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
1709 2011-02-14 12:10:24 lzd_hz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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1712 2011-02-14 12:17:34 <molecular> sipa, any more thinking on the p2p pool idea?
1713 2011-02-14 12:36:09 dduane is now known as bitcoin_bonus
1714 2011-02-14 12:42:06 <genjix> how do clients reach consensus on difficulty?
1715 2011-02-14 12:42:25 <JFK911> Calculations.
1716 2011-02-14 12:42:43 <genjix> is it always exact though
1717 2011-02-14 12:43:12 <sipa> yes
1718 2011-02-14 12:43:18 <genjix> what happens if one client gets a different difficulty value? do the other nodes shun blocks with hashes too high?
1719 2011-02-14 12:43:22 <sipa> yes
1720 2011-02-14 12:43:27 <sipa> it is calculated from data in the block chain
1721 2011-02-14 12:43:28 <genjix> kthx
1722 2011-02-14 12:43:51 <sipa> so unless there is a block chain split, everyone has the same chain, and thus the same difficulty
1723 2011-02-14 12:43:56 <sipa> for a given block number
1724 2011-02-14 12:45:37 <genjix> nice
1725 2011-02-14 12:46:03 <genjix> what if a blockchain netsplit were to occur?
1726 2011-02-14 12:46:10 <sipa> it happens all the time
1727 2011-02-14 12:46:22 <sipa> but sooner or later one of the two chains takes over
1728 2011-02-14 12:47:06 <genjix> lok
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1735 2011-02-14 13:10:44 <hozer> BCCI?
1736 2011-02-14 13:11:55 <hozer> (sorry responding to old conversation) ... if there's a netsplit on the blockchain, how long does it generally take for the two chains to converge (or one to take over) once it re-connects
1737 2011-02-14 13:14:24 <sipa> a block chain split is not the same as a network split
1738 2011-02-14 13:15:19 <sipa> but if at least one of the networks found a block while the network was splitted, this implies a block chain split
1739 2011-02-14 13:15:20 Kiba has joined
1740 2011-02-14 13:15:30 <sipa> and the only solution is indeed one of the chains to take over
1741 2011-02-14 13:15:42 sabalaba has joined
1742 2011-02-14 13:15:43 <sipa> which normally happens within one block
1743 2011-02-14 13:30:51 rapacity has joined
1744 2011-02-14 13:32:57 bitcoin_bonus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1745 2011-02-14 13:35:25 paul0 has joined
1746 2011-02-14 13:42:16 <UukGoblin> hozer, also, the longest chain will be the one that'll take over
1747 2011-02-14 13:43:01 rli has joined
1748 2011-02-14 13:43:56 <davex___> can any wallet be used with any block chain?
1749 2011-02-14 13:44:04 <davex___> er...
1750 2011-02-14 13:44:18 <davex___> i mean is the block database stored in .bitcoin different depending on contents of a wallet
1751 2011-02-14 13:44:29 <davex___> or can i just swap out wallets
1752 2011-02-14 13:44:39 <sipa> you'll need to rescan the block chain
1753 2011-02-14 13:44:59 <sipa> bitcoin 0.3.20 adds a -rescan option for that, i think
1754 2011-02-14 13:45:12 <molecular> how is that done on 0.3.19?
1755 2011-02-14 13:45:14 <davex___> ok, my bitcoin client crashed overnight
1756 2011-02-14 13:45:24 <davex___> but i don't really want to download the whole block chain again
1757 2011-02-14 13:45:34 <davex___> something about database corruption
1758 2011-02-14 13:45:51 <sipa> molecular: by deleting the block chain db, and downloading it again :p
1759 2011-02-14 13:45:58 <molecular> oh ;(
1760 2011-02-14 13:46:30 <molecular> you could setup a 2nd client maybe, davex___, that has the old blockchain, then with fresh client, -connect to only that node -> blockchain load really fast
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1764 2011-02-14 13:48:25 <molecular> sipa, would reloading block-chain solve the problem I experienced a week or so ago: http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/68/wallet-dat-restore-problem---tx-unconfirmed
1765 2011-02-14 13:49:12 rli has joined
1766 2011-02-14 13:50:22 <molecular> sipa, I mean rescanning
1767 2011-02-14 13:51:50 <davex___> hmm, i also had a couple generates that aren't showing up now that i deleted/moved the block chain
1768 2011-02-14 13:52:07 <sipa> molecular: i think so
1769 2011-02-14 13:52:26 <davex___> my transactions are there, but the generates are gone
1770 2011-02-14 13:52:26 <molecular> ok, might try that later
1771 2011-02-14 13:52:41 <davex___> wonder if they'll show up when i get to that block?
1772 2011-02-14 13:52:46 <molecular> sipa... for the p2p-pool-idea, do you think it would be wise to use the bitcoin-p2p infrastructure?
1773 2011-02-14 13:53:02 <molecular> sipa, or setup a seperate network
1774 2011-02-14 13:53:06 <sipa> good question
1775 2011-02-14 13:53:22 <sipa> i'm not sure
1776 2011-02-14 13:53:29 <molecular> sipa, me neither
1777 2011-02-14 13:54:10 <molecular> that's a smaller problem, the O(n²) is the biggest one I see so far...
1778 2011-02-14 13:54:19 <sipa> the problem with using the p2p structure is that you'll be using a private extension to the protocol when communicating with non-p2p-pool nodes
1779 2011-02-14 13:54:28 <sipa> which will hopefully ignore it
1780 2011-02-14 13:54:48 <sipa> and that you have no way of creating a private pool (with trusted people in it only)
1781 2011-02-14 13:54:53 <molecular> sipa, well I actually never looked at the bitcoin client impl... am close to doing it, though
1782 2011-02-14 13:55:15 <davex___> what's the n^2 problem?
1783 2011-02-14 13:55:31 <sipa> davex___: all shares found by everyone need to reach everyone in the pool
1784 2011-02-14 13:55:45 <molecular> davex___, do you know what we're talking about? making a pool without a pool server?
1785 2011-02-14 13:56:16 <davex___> no haven't been following
1786 2011-02-14 13:56:37 <molecular> sipa, maybe we could write a forum post? are you still interested in the idea?
1787 2011-02-14 13:57:06 <sipa> molecular: i'm thinking about doing a nice write-up and hoping someone would implement it :)
1788 2011-02-14 13:57:13 paul0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1789 2011-02-14 13:57:33 <molecular> sipa: :) nice.
1790 2011-02-14 13:57:52 <sipa> molecular: but if i were to implement it now, i'd use a simple multiplexer system which forwards shares from everyone to everyone, with a simple authentication system
1791 2011-02-14 13:58:14 <UukGoblin> n^2 doesn't sound that bad
1792 2011-02-14 13:58:22 <UukGoblin> i.e. for 1000 contributors it's only 1M operations
1793 2011-02-14 13:58:35 <molecular> UukGoblin, we're talking about bandwidth
1794 2011-02-14 13:58:40 <UukGoblin> oh.
1795 2011-02-14 13:58:48 <sipa> total bandwidth, spread over N nodes of course
1796 2011-02-14 13:59:01 <molecular> soo for 1000 nodes that's 1 mio rather large "blocks" to transfer
1797 2011-02-14 13:59:05 <UukGoblin> is that per-found-block?
1798 2011-02-14 13:59:17 <molecular> UukGoblin, sadly it's even per-found-share!
1799 2011-02-14 13:59:21 <sipa> molecular: not true
1800 2011-02-14 13:59:25 <molecular> no?
1801 2011-02-14 13:59:34 <sipa> well, yes, it is
1802 2011-02-14 13:59:38 <sipa> but, faster nodes can use higher-difficulty shares
1803 2011-02-14 13:59:43 <sipa> to prevent bandwidth
1804 2011-02-14 13:59:47 <UukGoblin> hrm
1805 2011-02-14 13:59:49 <UukGoblin> nice idea
1806 2011-02-14 13:59:52 <molecular> oh no, but it's not per-found-share then, it's only 1000 per found share
1807 2011-02-14 13:59:52 <sipa> essentially making it scale only with number of nodes
1808 2011-02-14 14:00:04 <sipa> not with their speed
1809 2011-02-14 14:00:14 <UukGoblin> tell you waht
1810 2011-02-14 14:00:18 <UukGoblin> just fork off bitcoin
1811 2011-02-14 14:00:23 <UukGoblin> with a lower difficulty
1812 2011-02-14 14:00:30 <UukGoblin> and convert the fork-bitcoins to regular bitcoins
1813 2011-02-14 14:00:35 <UukGoblin> based on something
1814 2011-02-14 14:00:37 <molecular> UukGoblin, hmmm
1815 2011-02-14 14:00:43 <sipa> unfortunately
1816 2011-02-14 14:00:44 <UukGoblin> jk
1817 2011-02-14 14:00:58 <sipa> fork-bitcoin-blocks are not usable as real bitcoin blocks
1818 2011-02-14 14:02:29 <UukGoblin> that was meant as a (poor) joke
1819 2011-02-14 14:03:03 <sipa> well, maybe there is a way of making that actually work
1820 2011-02-14 14:03:10 <molecular> come on, the idea is not bad, one might be able to get it to work
1821 2011-02-14 14:03:29 <molecular> we'd need _some_ nodes that connect to both networks and inject the real transactions and found blocks into our own net
1822 2011-02-14 14:04:03 <UukGoblin> what's the current idea again? have you got a link or sth?
1823 2011-02-14 14:04:36 <UukGoblin> molecular, but you can't easily convert one block into another...
1824 2011-02-14 14:04:52 <sipa> UukGoblin: not yet
1825 2011-02-14 14:05:09 <sipa> it's just an idea grown in some brainstorming here and in pm
1826 2011-02-14 14:05:19 <UukGoblin> can I have a quick recap plz?
1827 2011-02-14 14:05:27 <UukGoblin> I like algorithms ;-]
1828 2011-02-14 14:06:31 <sipa> have mining nodes connect together in a p2p network (somehow, maybe using a central server initially), using eachother as tx outputs of their generating transactions (like puddinpop's pool did)
1829 2011-02-14 14:06:31 <molecular> UukGoblin, the idea is to do work on lower-difficulty-blocks (like traditional pooled mining)
1830 2011-02-14 14:06:49 <sipa> and showing eachother their low-difficulty blocks found
1831 2011-02-14 14:07:00 <sipa> as a proof they are actually working for eachother's benefit
1832 2011-02-14 14:07:08 <molecular> so when I look at a low-diff-block from sipa and it has a tx to give me part of the 50 BTC, i also put him into my recipient-list for blocks I generate
1833 2011-02-14 14:07:26 <molecular> that's why we have to distribute these low-diff-blocks to all nodes
1834 2011-02-14 14:07:31 <UukGoblin> ok well
1835 2011-02-14 14:07:38 <UukGoblin> firstly, there's the problem of cheating nodes
1836 2011-02-14 14:07:46 <sipa> that always exists
1837 2011-02-14 14:07:46 <JFK911> It's easy enough to check whether the solution returned by a miner is within the work range that you gave him.
1838 2011-02-14 14:07:52 <UukGoblin> /some/ node has to re-assemble the low-diff-blocks into a real block
1839 2011-02-14 14:07:57 <sipa> no
1840 2011-02-14 14:07:59 <molecular> not really, there's only vandalism-problem
1841 2011-02-14 14:08:05 <sipa> there is no reassembling
1842 2011-02-14 14:08:10 <sipa> everyone's working on real blocks
1843 2011-02-14 14:08:41 <UukGoblin> yes
1844 2011-02-14 14:08:44 <sipa> like in slush' pool
1845 2011-02-14 14:08:52 <UukGoblin> and eventually someone will find /the/ block
1846 2011-02-14 14:08:55 <sipa> yes
1847 2011-02-14 14:09:01 <UukGoblin> and what then? why doesn't he just use it as his own?
1848 2011-02-14 14:09:07 <sipa> he can't
1849 2011-02-14 14:09:12 <UukGoblin> why not?
1850 2011-02-14 14:09:17 <molecular> because it cointains transactions to distribute the 50 already
1851 2011-02-14 14:09:25 <UukGoblin> oh.
1852 2011-02-14 14:09:27 <sipa> he had to decide what the tx outputs were before he started mining
1853 2011-02-14 14:09:41 <molecular> it's quite brilliant, I think
1854 2011-02-14 14:09:41 <sipa> so he can not send that block out, sure
1855 2011-02-14 14:09:52 <sipa> but that hurts everyone including himself
1856 2011-02-14 14:09:55 <UukGoblin> oh, yeah, that's fucking smart actually
1857 2011-02-14 14:10:01 <molecular> "send it out"? like drop it?
1858 2011-02-14 14:10:05 <sipa> yes
1859 2011-02-14 14:10:11 <molecular> yeah
1860 2011-02-14 14:10:13 <sipa> it's how slush's pool works, it's not my idea :)
1861 2011-02-14 14:10:25 <UukGoblin> I'm not familiar with all them pools
1862 2011-02-14 14:10:28 <molecular> that's an attack to harm the pool, costs a lot of power and gains nothing
1863 2011-02-14 14:10:34 <UukGoblin> 3Ghash is enough for me not to care about details ;-]
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1865 2011-02-14 14:11:04 <molecular> sipa, if you find no time to write it up, I can try and you make some corrections and then we post to forum?
1866 2011-02-14 14:11:11 <UukGoblin> so, the problem is then, to recalculate tx outputs after each found hash
1867 2011-02-14 14:11:19 <sipa> UukGoblin: you don't
1868 2011-02-14 14:11:34 <sipa> the only thing you do is measure how often you see other people's shares mentioning you
1869 2011-02-14 14:11:37 <molecular> you merely adjust the weights based on other's power
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1873 2011-02-14 14:12:01 <UukGoblin> well yes
1874 2011-02-14 14:12:02 <sipa> and hopefully do that in a way that has little variation, so it corresponds nicely to actual average hashing rates
1875 2011-02-14 14:12:23 <UukGoblin> every time someone finds a low-diff-block, he needs to transmit it, and everyone has to start working on the block all over again
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1877 2011-02-14 14:12:32 <sipa> no
1878 2011-02-14 14:12:43 <sipa> you just continuously update it
1879 2011-02-14 14:12:49 <UukGoblin> well yeah
1880 2011-02-14 14:12:49 <molecular> and if someone decides: I don't like sipa, I'm not giving him share, sipa will detect that and also not include that guy in his output
1881 2011-02-14 14:12:52 <sipa> doesn't matter if you're a few seconds out of date
1882 2011-02-14 14:13:01 <UukGoblin> yeah
1883 2011-02-14 14:13:14 <sipa> it also doesn't matter if there's a bit variation
1884 2011-02-14 14:13:26 <UukGoblin> so where does the N^2 come into play?
1885 2011-02-14 14:13:26 <sipa> that justs decreases the pool-effect of the whole thing
1886 2011-02-14 14:13:40 <sipa> every share needs to reach every miner
1887 2011-02-14 14:13:43 <davex___> how is it determined who generated a block?
1888 2011-02-14 14:13:46 <molecular> the low-diff-blocks have to be given to everyone as proof of work
1889 2011-02-14 14:14:06 <davex___> ie, if i generated a block 1000 blocks ago, is there a public key from my wallet marking that block?
1890 2011-02-14 14:14:07 <UukGoblin> kinda like high-diff-blocks have to be propagated
1891 2011-02-14 14:14:10 <molecular> it's not, it's just generated and everyone receives his fair share
1892 2011-02-14 14:14:42 <molecular> you can't know who generated a block except maybe from some network analysis if you have access to many nodes, no?
1893 2011-02-14 14:14:48 <UukGoblin> davex___, there's a private key in your wallet proving that you can sign the transaction using money from that block
1894 2011-02-14 14:15:04 <molecular> yeah, but noone knows you have it
1895 2011-02-14 14:15:05 <UukGoblin> davex___, the generated block will have your address
1896 2011-02-14 14:15:10 <davex___> ok good
1897 2011-02-14 14:16:49 <sipa> actually it will have his public key, not his address
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1902 2011-02-14 14:21:59 <UukGoblin> isn't "address" the same as "public key"?
1903 2011-02-14 14:23:04 <sipa> no
1904 2011-02-14 14:23:13 <sipa> an address contains the hash of a public key
1905 2011-02-14 14:23:34 <sipa> so you can go from public key to address, but not the other way around
1906 2011-02-14 14:24:05 <UukGoblin> so what goes in a transaction record?
1907 2011-02-14 14:24:12 <UukGoblin> surely has to be address then
1908 2011-02-14 14:24:32 <sipa> typically, generation transaction directly encode a public key
1909 2011-02-14 14:24:43 <UukGoblin> I thought a "generated 50 BTC" transaction is kinda like any other
1910 2011-02-14 14:24:44 <sipa> while other transaction outputs are marked using an address
1911 2011-02-14 14:24:45 <UukGoblin> ah, ok
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1913 2011-02-14 14:26:29 <molecular> sipa, UukGoblin, I made a piratead to write the idea up, please help: http://piratepad.net/1rkZpsiO7t
1914 2011-02-14 14:26:53 <molecular> *piratepad
1915 2011-02-14 14:28:03 dwdollar1 has left ()
1916 2011-02-14 14:29:06 <RichardG> did someone here get mining.bitcoin.cz 500s
1917 2011-02-14 14:29:30 <RichardG> when I went to sleep yesterday, the miner was 500ing
1918 2011-02-14 14:29:31 <molecular> RichardG, yeah
1919 2011-02-14 14:29:35 <RichardG> I went to the actual site to check status
1920 2011-02-14 14:29:37 <RichardG> also got a 500
1921 2011-02-14 14:29:40 <RichardG> ctrl+f5 solved
1922 2011-02-14 14:29:44 <molecular> <head><title>500 Internal Server Error</title></head>
1923 2011-02-14 14:29:59 <molecular> slush might be working on it...
1924 2011-02-14 14:30:09 <molecular> or it's having trouble with the load
1925 2011-02-14 14:30:27 <RichardG> so I heard he got slashdotted
1926 2011-02-14 14:30:42 <molecular> kind of. a lot of people joined
1927 2011-02-14 14:30:59 <molecular> I don't think it was down, though (for longer than a minute or so at a time)
1928 2011-02-14 14:31:34 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1929 2011-02-14 14:32:50 <RichardG> while testing hstart.exe and looped batch files, I accidentally forkbombed my laptop twice yesterday
1930 2011-02-14 14:32:57 <RichardG> getting forkbombed with minerds isnt good
1931 2011-02-14 14:33:02 <RichardG> had to boot in safemode to fix the batch
1932 2011-02-14 14:34:47 <Kiba> ;;seen kiba
1933 2011-02-14 14:34:47 <gribble> kiba was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 10 hours, 56 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <Kiba> :(
1934 2011-02-14 14:43:30 <xelister> molecular: I get it too
1935 2011-02-14 14:45:51 flags8192 has joined
1936 2011-02-14 14:49:50 <presence> so diablominer worked last night, I wake up this morning and its telling me that I have the wrong elf class
1937 2011-02-14 14:50:03 <presence> so something updated, and now its all assed
1938 2011-02-14 14:56:27 <tcatm> genjix: there's a major bug in spesmilo. It crashes on generate TX (feel free to test it on https://testnet:letmein@home.nilsschneider.net:8338)
1939 2011-02-14 14:58:35 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1940 2011-02-14 15:05:19 <tcatm> genjix: https://gist.github.com/825986
1941 2011-02-14 15:05:37 sbc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1942 2011-02-14 15:07:25 Raulo has joined
1943 2011-02-14 15:09:02 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1944 2011-02-14 15:13:13 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1945 2011-02-14 15:16:12 RichardG has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1946 2011-02-14 15:19:23 RichardG has joined
1947 2011-02-14 15:19:24 RichardG has quit (Changing host)
1948 2011-02-14 15:19:24 RichardG has joined
1949 2011-02-14 15:31:56 <echelon> Kiba
1950 2011-02-14 15:32:07 <Kiba> yes?
1951 2011-02-14 15:36:26 <lolcat> Kiba
1952 2011-02-14 15:41:03 <ducki2p> echelon
1953 2011-02-14 15:41:25 <echelon> oh
1954 2011-02-14 15:41:29 <echelon> :S
1955 2011-02-14 15:41:34 <Kiba> time to haul my ass to school
1956 2011-02-14 15:42:11 <echelon> wait
1957 2011-02-14 15:42:11 <echelon> Kiba, what about your magazine
1958 2011-02-14 15:43:04 <Kiba> what about it?
1959 2011-02-14 15:43:46 <xelister> Kiba: lol haul
1960 2011-02-14 15:44:11 <grubles> echelon, are you talking about bitcoin weekly?
1961 2011-02-14 15:44:21 <echelon> no?
1962 2011-02-14 15:44:27 kmilo0 has joined
1963 2011-02-14 15:44:28 <echelon> Kiba, any progress?
1964 2011-02-14 15:44:39 <echelon> oh right
1965 2011-02-14 15:44:42 <echelon> bitcoin weekly
1966 2011-02-14 15:44:51 <grubles> hehe
1967 2011-02-14 15:45:01 <echelon> it was supposed to be called the bitcoin journal
1968 2011-02-14 15:45:14 <grubles> i see
1969 2011-02-14 15:45:37 <Kiba> hmm?
1970 2011-02-14 15:45:52 <Kiba> it comes out every Wednesday
1971 2011-02-14 15:46:01 <Kiba> and we have 4 articles to review
1972 2011-02-14 15:46:01 <grubles> do you think anyone would buy that if it were in print
1973 2011-02-14 15:46:10 <Kiba> I don't know
1974 2011-02-14 15:46:18 <edcba> with bitcoins ?
1975 2011-02-14 15:46:51 <Kiba> we would need to figure out a self-publishing option that accept bitcoin or something
1976 2011-02-14 15:47:58 <grubles> yeah
1977 2011-02-14 15:50:26 <echelon> what're you using to publish? scribus?
1978 2011-02-14 15:51:08 <Kiba> libreoffice
1979 2011-02-14 15:51:11 <Kiba> couldn't figure out scribus
1980 2011-02-14 15:51:13 <Kiba> in time
1981 2011-02-14 15:51:20 <Kiba> but now, we just publish on the web
1982 2011-02-14 15:51:23 <echelon> :/
1983 2011-02-14 15:51:26 <echelon> k
1984 2011-02-14 15:52:11 RichardG has quit (Quit: QUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII T)
1985 2011-02-14 15:54:28 <echelon> why is it double digit 0's for the issue?
1986 2011-02-14 15:56:28 bitcoin_bonus has joined
1987 2011-02-14 15:58:36 Lachesis has joined
1988 2011-02-14 16:02:51 bk128 has joined
1989 2011-02-14 16:02:51 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
1990 2011-02-14 16:02:51 bk128 has joined
1991 2011-02-14 16:05:37 rli has joined
1992 2011-02-14 16:06:43 <EvanR-work> so i wonder how much slush is making with the new pool tax ;)
1993 2011-02-14 16:07:09 <lolcat> Pool tax?
1994 2011-02-14 16:07:21 <EvanR-work> yes
1995 2011-02-14 16:08:43 <tcatm> ;;bc,cald 50377000
1996 2011-02-14 16:08:43 <gribble> Error: "bc,cald" is not a valid command.
1997 2011-02-14 16:08:48 <tcatm> ;;bc,calc 50377000
1998 2011-02-14 16:08:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50377000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 36 minutes and 56 seconds
1999 2011-02-14 16:09:16 <tcatm> => about 40 BTC/day
2000 2011-02-14 16:09:27 <lolcat> He is becoming rich!
2001 2011-02-14 16:10:31 <tcatm> so a cheap VPS can almost replace a 5970 and consume much less energy with the right software installed ;)
2002 2011-02-14 16:11:09 <grubles> and with many slaves to do your bidding
2003 2011-02-14 16:11:12 <satamusic> is that so?
2004 2011-02-14 16:11:16 ducki2p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2005 2011-02-14 16:11:35 <satamusic> tcatm how cheap and what software?
2006 2011-02-14 16:11:50 <tcatm> a pool software like slush's
2007 2011-02-14 16:11:51 <grubles> hes talking about created another pool
2008 2011-02-14 16:11:56 <grubles> creating*
2009 2011-02-14 16:13:20 ducki2p has joined
2010 2011-02-14 16:15:08 larsig has joined
2011 2011-02-14 16:15:25 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2012 2011-02-14 16:17:33 <bk128> the pool is doing 50.3ghash/sec?
2013 2011-02-14 16:18:30 <bk128> I might join with another 1.029 ghash/sec when I get my 5870s arrive later this week
2014 2011-02-14 16:18:30 <molecular> 54, yep
2015 2011-02-14 16:19:07 <bk128> so what % does slush take?
2016 2011-02-14 16:19:14 <xelister> bk128: woot
2017 2011-02-14 16:20:17 <xelister> bk128: slush now requires 2%, takes 2% of actuall earning from block you helped.  Bitpenny takes 10% of EXPECTED earnings.
2018 2011-02-14 16:20:22 <molecular> slush is making about 35 btc with the 2%
2019 2011-02-14 16:20:29 <molecular> per day
2020 2011-02-14 16:21:02 <luke-jr> xelister: but BitPenny also gives you 90% of EXPECTED earnings, whether or not you earn it :P
2021 2011-02-14 16:21:02 <xelister> that is like 0.5 of one 5970
2022 2011-02-14 16:21:10 <xelister> luke-jr: yeah, as I said
2023 2011-02-14 16:21:12 <luke-jr> at least in theory. I only get like 75%
2024 2011-02-14 16:21:13 <xelister> :)
2025 2011-02-14 16:21:17 Syke has joined
2026 2011-02-14 16:21:19 <xelister> why just 75
2027 2011-02-14 16:21:20 <xelister> why just 75%
2028 2011-02-14 16:21:23 <luke-jr> nfc
2029 2011-02-14 16:21:28 <xelister> ?
2030 2011-02-14 16:21:32 <luke-jr> no freaking clue
2031 2011-02-14 16:21:33 <molecular> what? how much are you making with one 5970?
2032 2011-02-14 16:21:42 <luke-jr> slush's only gives me 50% without donations
2033 2011-02-14 16:22:03 <luke-jr> but in the last 2 days, I got 150 BTC self-mining XD
2034 2011-02-14 16:22:12 <molecular> but that's not expected, just lucky
2035 2011-02-14 16:22:22 <luke-jr> I know
2036 2011-02-14 16:22:26 <luke-jr> 100 BTC was expected though
2037 2011-02-14 16:22:30 <luke-jr> I went 10 days without any
2038 2011-02-14 16:22:33 <molecular> what? with one 5970?
2039 2011-02-14 16:22:37 <luke-jr> 5850
2040 2011-02-14 16:22:58 <xelister> only 50%  :O ?
2041 2011-02-14 16:23:27 <luke-jr> xelister: I only gave it 1 day ;)
2042 2011-02-14 16:23:36 <luke-jr> after 1 day of 50%, I moved to self-mining
2043 2011-02-14 16:23:36 <molecular> a 5850 does about 250Mhash/s ?
2044 2011-02-14 16:23:40 <luke-jr> 265
2045 2011-02-14 16:23:44 <molecular> you never expect 100 BTC / day
2046 2011-02-14 16:23:44 <luke-jr> since I use -f 1
2047 2011-02-14 16:23:57 <luke-jr> molecular: after 10 days of nothing, I would expect 100 BTC soon
2048 2011-02-14 16:23:57 <molecular> ;;bc,calc 265000
2049 2011-02-14 16:23:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 38 seconds
2050 2011-02-14 16:24:06 <OneFixt> luke-jr: I notice you have issues with pooled mining - perhaps your dns settings are messed up?
2051 2011-02-14 16:24:14 <luke-jr> OneFixt: they aren't. ☺
2052 2011-02-14 16:24:17 <molecular> luke-jr, actually, no
2053 2011-02-14 16:24:25 <molecular> luke-jr, fortuna has no memory
2054 2011-02-14 16:24:31 <OneFixt> luke-jr: ok, I'm just mentioning it because I had that problem
2055 2011-02-14 16:24:50 <molecular> but what about the 50% @slush... that's not true
2056 2011-02-14 16:25:02 gasteve has joined
2057 2011-02-14 16:25:04 <luke-jr> molecular: that applies to any "per day" figure just as much
2058 2011-02-14 16:25:24 <molecular> luke-jr, yeah, ok
2059 2011-02-14 16:25:27 <luke-jr> OneFixt: I have a local, well-tested DNS cache
2060 2011-02-14 16:25:37 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2061 2011-02-14 16:25:45 <molecular> I never mined a block solo, only used slush so far
2062 2011-02-14 16:26:05 TheAncientGoat has joined
2063 2011-02-14 16:26:59 <larsig> how do you do pooled mining?
2064 2011-02-14 16:27:06 <molecular> since about jan 20th
2065 2011-02-14 16:28:05 <luke-jr> so because I was lucky, I broke even on my video card in under 2 weeks :D
2066 2011-02-14 16:28:19 <molecular> luke-jr, nice!
2067 2011-02-14 16:28:32 <nanotube> larsig: you fire up a miner, and connect to a ,,pool
2068 2011-02-14 16:28:32 <gribble> Mining pools: http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ http://www.bitpenny.com/
2069 2011-02-14 16:28:41 <nanotube> (second one is down for upgrades atm)
2070 2011-02-14 16:29:46 Lachesis has joined
2071 2011-02-14 16:30:10 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2072 2011-02-14 16:34:04 kmilo0 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2073 2011-02-14 16:36:33 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2074 2011-02-14 16:42:23 gp5st has joined
2075 2011-02-14 16:42:41 gavinandresen has joined
2076 2011-02-14 16:42:53 <gp5st> would it be reasonable to add the ability to charge fee's based on tx size?
2077 2011-02-14 16:43:19 <gp5st> into the client*
2078 2011-02-14 16:43:35 <sipa> that's already done
2079 2011-02-14 16:43:45 <gavinandresen> yup, where tx size is measured in kilobytes
2080 2011-02-14 16:43:54 <gavinandresen> (not number of bitcoins)
2081 2011-02-14 16:44:05 <gp5st> oh, i interpreted that as the fee i send, not the fee i accept
2082 2011-02-14 16:44:14 <gp5st> accept to add to a block
2083 2011-02-14 16:44:31 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2084 2011-02-14 16:45:18 andrew12_ has joined
2085 2011-02-14 16:45:19 andrew12_ is now known as andrew12|school
2086 2011-02-14 16:45:42 andrew12 has quit (school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|Changing host)
2087 2011-02-14 16:45:42 andrew12 has joined
2088 2011-02-14 16:45:42 andrew12 has quit (school!401a4b78@unaffiliated/andrew12|Changing host)
2089 2011-02-14 16:45:42 andrew12 has joined
2090 2011-02-14 16:47:22 <gavinandresen> Anybody here willing to help test a new Windows 0.3.20 release candidate?
2091 2011-02-14 16:47:40 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|I can when I get home, but not  now
2092 2011-02-14 16:47:59 <lolcat> ?
2093 2011-02-14 16:48:30 <lolcat> I don't have wine, but I could have tested if my laptop werent broken
2094 2011-02-14 16:48:34 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|well I can install it on here but I doubt it will be able to connect to any nodes
2095 2011-02-14 16:48:43 <gavinandresen> Freshly uploaded to SourceForge:   https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/
2096 2011-02-14 16:48:43 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|lolcat: I'm pretty sure he wants native windows testers
2097 2011-02-14 16:48:53 <gavinandresen> Yeah, native windows would be best.
2098 2011-02-14 16:49:05 <lolcat> On my real computer I could use a VM
2099 2011-02-14 16:50:00 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2100 2011-02-14 16:50:16 <jackmcbarn> how do transaction fees work exactly?
2101 2011-02-14 16:50:19 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|It's working, though I can't get any connections because of my school's funky proxy stuff.
2102 2011-02-14 16:50:29 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|;;bc,wiki transaction fee
2103 2011-02-14 16:50:30 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees | 19 Dec 2010 ... Transaction fees may be included with any transfer of bitcoins from one address to another. At the moment, many transactions are typically ...
2104 2011-02-14 16:51:09 <gavinandresen> andrew12: if you could stop and restart it a couple times, make sure there are no funky rendering issues....
2105 2011-02-14 16:51:13 <gp5st> is there a way to require a tx fee to process the transaction?
2106 2011-02-14 16:51:19 <gavinandresen> (and what Os?  XP? Vista?)
2107 2011-02-14 16:51:25 andrew12 has quit (school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|Quit: Page closed)
2108 2011-02-14 16:51:39 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2109 2011-02-14 16:51:41 <gavinandresen> gp5st:  you can set whatever policy you want as a miner (assuming you're compiling your own code)
2110 2011-02-14 16:52:23 <gp5st> yes, i know that, i'm talking about in the official client, or are you guys not really doing much to cater to miners in it since they normally compile their own?
2111 2011-02-14 16:52:24 <gavinandresen> gp5st: actually, non-mining nodes could set whatever policy they want for retransmitting transactions, too (again, assuming you're willing to recompile)
2112 2011-02-14 16:52:25 andrew12 has joined
2113 2011-02-14 16:52:31 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|sorry about that
2114 2011-02-14 16:52:35 <molecular> UukGoblin, sipa wrote up the p2p pooled mining idea: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3461.0
2115 2011-02-14 16:52:35 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|it appears to be rendering as it should
2116 2011-02-14 16:53:06 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|;;later tell andrew12 http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/
2117 2011-02-14 16:53:07 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2118 2011-02-14 16:53:10 <gavinandresen> There seems to be consensus that making all the policy choices configurable is a good idea, so that'll probably get done.
2119 2011-02-14 16:53:22 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: does the original client allow your own tx to be fee-less even when it would require a fee for others?
2120 2011-02-14 16:53:32 <UukGoblin> molecular, thanks, will read later ;-]
2121 2011-02-14 16:53:50 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  nope, it treats everybody equally.
2122 2011-02-14 16:53:51 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|luke-jr: other clients probably wouldn't accept it
2123 2011-02-14 16:54:03 <luke-jr> andrew12|school: they would
2124 2011-02-14 16:54:22 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|newer clients wouldn't accept old clients' transactions, that is, but I'm not sure
2125 2011-02-14 16:54:30 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  if I recall correctly, it doesn't even prioritize you transactions over others.
2126 2011-02-14 16:56:01 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|but yeah, I can't get any connections from within the school network :(
2127 2011-02-14 16:56:28 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|bitcoin needs some way to do a "web seed" and use the proxy settings from the browser :P
2128 2011-02-14 16:57:04 <luke-jr> I want to start a pool that pays out immediately, even if the payout is < 0.0001 BTC, and always splits the full generation among shares, but I get to keep all fees ;)
2129 2011-02-14 16:57:16 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|or, better yet, there needs to be some program to pull the proxy information out of "internet settings"
2130 2011-02-14 16:57:27 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|that way I can use putty :P
2131 2011-02-14 16:57:54 <lolcat> Can't you just port forward the port in question?
2132 2011-02-14 16:58:17 <gavinandresen> why not go all the way and do ip over dns:  http://think-security.org/ip-over-dns/
2133 2011-02-14 16:58:38 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|lolcat: every outgoing connection in my school's network goes through a single proxy
2134 2011-02-14 16:59:14 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|gavinandresen: I can use ptunnel (tunnels everything over ICMP which is like impossible to block), but I still can't access my server to get it set up
2135 2011-02-14 16:59:22 <lolcat> andrew12|school: You could still use an ssh tunnel
2136 2011-02-14 16:59:23 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|I need to get ajaxterm set up :p
2137 2011-02-14 16:59:33 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|lolcat: nope
2138 2011-02-14 16:59:37 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|I can't even use port 22
2139 2011-02-14 16:59:46 <lolcat> Setup your ssh on port 80
2140 2011-02-14 16:59:48 <lolcat> or 430
2141 2011-02-14 16:59:50 <gavinandresen> Running bitcoin at school is a bad idea anyway.  It is exactly the sort of thing "they" don't want you doing.
2142 2011-02-14 16:59:50 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|everything in the school network has to go through their proxy or it's blocked
2143 2011-02-14 16:59:52 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|lolcat: still.
2144 2011-02-14 16:59:56 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|gavinandresen: this is truer
2145 2011-02-14 16:59:58 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|-r
2146 2011-02-14 17:00:14 <lolcat> I ran a bittorrent tracker on the school network
2147 2011-02-14 17:00:25 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|but i'd like to be able to attach directly to my irssi session while i'm at school
2148 2011-02-14 17:00:28 <gavinandresen> Hacking around stuff like that is fun, but you could probably be doing something more productive.  Like learning python.
2149 2011-02-14 17:00:32 <lolcat> It was behind the NAT, but there where plenty of people that used still
2150 2011-02-14 17:00:36 <grubles> thats probably not a good idea
2151 2011-02-14 17:00:51 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|I already know python :3
2152 2011-02-14 17:00:58 <gavinandresen> Ok, learning c++
2153 2011-02-14 17:01:12 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|eww :P
2154 2011-02-14 17:01:13 <lolcat> The admins said that 600 people playing Counter-Strike was bad for their network! THey should know what else we used it for xD
2155 2011-02-14 17:01:15 <gavinandresen> (but just learn the good parts)
2156 2011-02-14 17:01:27 <grubles> dont forget asm
2157 2011-02-14 17:01:44 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|the first thing i need is new glasses
2158 2011-02-14 17:01:47 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|grubles: no, brainfuck!
2159 2011-02-14 17:01:48 <gavinandresen> A little asm never hurts.  Well, that's not true, a little asm CAN hurt your head....
2160 2011-02-14 17:02:12 <grubles> yes...yes it can
2161 2011-02-14 17:02:22 <gavinandresen> Or learn a nice functional language... maybe Scala or ML
2162 2011-02-14 17:02:47 <luke-jr> learn MIPS asm
2163 2011-02-14 17:02:49 <luke-jr> that's nice
2164 2011-02-14 17:03:39 bk128 has joined
2165 2011-02-14 17:03:40 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
2166 2011-02-14 17:03:40 bk128 has joined
2167 2011-02-14 17:04:22 <gavinandresen> ... yeah, but ugly old x86 is more useful
2168 2011-02-14 17:04:41 <luke-jr> I disagree.
2169 2011-02-14 17:04:57 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|no, make an ALU in minecraft
2170 2011-02-14 17:04:58 <luke-jr> almost everything x86 that needs reverse engineering has been replaced
2171 2011-02-14 17:05:07 <gavinandresen> So luke-jr, how many products have you shipped over the course of your career?
2172 2011-02-14 17:05:09 <luke-jr> now only MIPS and ARM stuff needs reverse engieering
2173 2011-02-14 17:05:28 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: hm? I don't ship products.
2174 2011-02-14 17:05:48 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|I remember being able to get some connections in bitcoin at school a while ago. it was on an older computer though
2175 2011-02-14 17:06:24 <gavinandresen> Ah.  Well, over the course of my career (and I'm getting old these days), I've only written a little bit of asm, and that was 383 asm to optimize the inner loop of some critical rendering code.
2176 2011-02-14 17:06:26 <luke-jr> nor do I recognize software to be a product. :p
2177 2011-02-14 17:06:31 <gavinandresen> ^383^386^
2178 2011-02-14 17:06:44 * andrew12 school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|is not a kernel hacker
2179 2011-02-14 17:06:47 <luke-jr> I don't think I"ve ever written any real-world asm, only used it for reverse engineering.
2180 2011-02-14 17:06:59 wsc9tt has left ()
2181 2011-02-14 17:07:24 <gavinandresen> I think the only reverse engineering I've ever had to do as part of my "real work" is network packet reverse engineering.
2182 2011-02-14 17:07:40 <gavinandresen> Wait, that's not true, file format reverse engineering, too...
2183 2011-02-14 17:07:55 <luke-jr> not sure I'd even consider that reverse engineering :P
2184 2011-02-14 17:08:16 <luke-jr> don't forget strace "reverse engineering"
2185 2011-02-14 17:08:41 <gavinandresen> I've strace'd my own code to figure out performance bottlenecks...
2186 2011-02-14 17:08:54 * luke-jr notes gprof exists. :p
2187 2011-02-14 17:08:59 <gavinandresen> Right, I better stop procrastinating and get some real work done.
2188 2011-02-14 17:11:05 <luke-jr> genjix: so I moved your stuff to a new PyBitcoin page, ok?
2189 2011-02-14 17:11:12 <andrew12> school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|well i'm gonna log off. i'll see you guys later.
2190 2011-02-14 17:15:43 andrew12 has quit (school!401a4b78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.26.75.120|Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2195 2011-02-14 17:25:04 MartianW has joined
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2197 2011-02-14 17:40:37 <MartianW> How does the client differ between the same block sent twice and a double spent?
2198 2011-02-14 17:40:39 <MartianW> *spend
2199 2011-02-14 17:40:50 <MartianW> Or does it treat both the same by ignoring them?
2200 2011-02-14 17:40:56 bubust00br has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.)
2201 2011-02-14 17:41:25 <TD> MartianW: if the same block is sent twice it doesn't matter. it's the same block.
2202 2011-02-14 17:41:35 <TD> double spends mean two different transactions that use the same source outpoints
2203 2011-02-14 17:41:43 <TD> in that case the client picks whichever it sees first
2204 2011-02-14 17:41:46 <MartianW> Wait, sorry, that was an error. I meant same transaction.
2205 2011-02-14 17:42:13 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2206 2011-02-14 17:42:34 <TD> same thing
2207 2011-02-14 17:43:03 <TD> same transaction sent twice, doesn't matter. they are dupe-eliminated by the client.
2208 2011-02-14 17:43:11 <MartianW> So I could cheat someone who didn't wait for a confirmation by resending a new transaction with a higher transaction fee?
2209 2011-02-14 17:43:40 <MartianW> (New transaction with the same input)
2210 2011-02-14 17:44:11 <TD> you can try and double spend by sending two transactions simultaneously. if the merchant observes tx1 first and most others observe tx2 first, you can double spend. merchants will probably have well connected clients and look for double spend attempts though
2211 2011-02-14 17:44:11 <MartianW> [Not that I'm intending to do that, just wondering]
2212 2011-02-14 17:44:14 <TD> it only takes seconds to propagate a tx
2213 2011-02-14 17:44:21 <TD> so you don't have to wait long to be sure
2214 2011-02-14 17:47:50 <CIA-63> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rcf7c187 / (build-msw.txt makefile.vc setup.nsi): Update windows build process for 0.3.20 release - http://bit.ly/fkrli8
2215 2011-02-14 17:50:41 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: unless satoshi specifically requested this, it is a major no-no to remove copyrights
2216 2011-02-14 17:50:44 <jgarzik> -Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
2217 2011-02-14 17:50:44 <jgarzik> +Copyright (c) 2009-2011 Bitcoin Developers
2218 2011-02-14 17:51:23 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: just add new copyrights above or below existing ones
2219 2011-02-14 17:52:41 <gavinandresen> I was just being consistent with the changes satoshi made to copyrights everywhere else.
2220 2011-02-14 17:53:24 <gavinandresen> (he changed all the other copyrights for the 0.3.19 release, I'm 99.8% sure this one was just an oversight)
2221 2011-02-14 17:53:40 <gasteve> MartianW: that's a long explanation...you should study the whitepaper in the FAQ at bitcoin.org closely
2222 2011-02-14 17:54:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ok
2223 2011-02-14 17:54:28 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if that's there, there should be an AUTHORS file with the real copyright holder names
2224 2011-02-14 17:55:11 <gavinandresen> Uh-huh.  And what if some people don't want their real names used?
2225 2011-02-14 17:55:36 <gavinandresen> copyright in an anonymous (or pseudo-anonymous) world is... um... quaint.
2226 2011-02-14 17:56:02 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: "real names" are what people call you.
2227 2011-02-14 17:56:11 <luke-jr> at least under US law, you have the right to use any name you wish
2228 2011-02-14 17:56:32 <gavinandresen> uh huh...   and why would US law be relevant to an international project like bitcoin?
2229 2011-02-14 17:56:48 <luke-jr> it's relevant for US developers at least ☺
2230 2011-02-14 17:57:13 <luke-jr> of course, by committing without modifying the file containing the copyright holders, one implicitly assigns copyright to the group listed therein
2231 2011-02-14 17:57:14 <luke-jr> IMO
2232 2011-02-14 17:57:22 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: are you really asking that question?  :)  If satoshi (and you) really don't care, then don't mention copyright at all.  :)
2233 2011-02-14 17:57:42 <jgarzik> otherwise, it's presence is a demonstration that it does matter
2234 2011-02-14 17:57:49 <nanotube> gavinandresen: well, you could still have an authors file, and simply include whatever people want included for themselves. leave "anonymous" for those who want to remain so. :)
2235 2011-02-14 17:58:00 <gavinandresen> Satoshi probably cares more about it than I do-- he's been careful about keeping track of which license dependencies are released under, etc....
2236 2011-02-14 17:58:13 <gavinandresen> If y'all want to submit an Authors file patch, go for it.  I just don't care.
2237 2011-02-14 17:58:18 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2238 2011-02-14 17:58:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: erm, if you don't mention copyright at all, then nobody can copy it.
2239 2011-02-14 17:58:35 <gavinandresen> (authors are all documented in the git commits anyway)
2240 2011-02-14 17:58:48 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: tarballs don't have the git repo ☺
2241 2011-02-14 17:58:58 <luke-jr> could probably auto-generate an initial AUTHORS file from it though
2242 2011-02-14 17:59:41 <jgarzik> luke-jr: a lawyer will tell you that bogus or intentionally silly copyright statements can be an invalidating factor
2243 2011-02-14 18:00:14 <jgarzik> luke-jr: but copying itself is more dependent on license, which is then secured by copyright holders, who control the license.
2244 2011-02-14 18:00:24 Syke has joined
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2248 2011-02-14 18:03:14 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, US copyrights are enforcible in most of the world fyi
2249 2011-02-14 18:04:10 <gavinandresen> Cool.  We should plan to aggressively enforce the bitcoin copyright / MIT license.
2250 2011-02-14 18:05:57 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, the question is more of whether someone can add code to the project w/o accepting the licensing terms, thus causing massive unknown infringement
2251 2011-02-14 18:06:33 <gasteve> I'm a developer and looking to get involved in some bitcoin development...I'm most interested in the exchanges (because I think making those better and cheaper for people is key to btc success)...if any of the exchanges are running on open source software, I'd be glad to contribute to some of the work that the exchange operator needs doing
2252 2011-02-14 18:06:46 <gavinandresen> gasteve: talk to davout
2253 2011-02-14 18:07:10 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2254 2011-02-14 18:07:12 <devon_hillard> I found my first AMD fusion motherboards, are they worth a shot as a replacement for atom (home server + media box)?
2255 2011-02-14 18:07:13 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit:  ok.  how do other open source projects deal with that without scaring people away?
2256 2011-02-14 18:07:25 <midnightmagic> devon_hillard: kinda offtopic..?
2257 2011-02-14 18:07:48 <devon_hillard> may run a miner on it, just casually :)
2258 2011-02-14 18:07:59 <midnightmagic> devon_hillard: great! :)
2259 2011-02-14 18:08:12 <gasteve> gavinandresen: thx...I'm looking for something rather smallish to work on to get started
2260 2011-02-14 18:08:26 <devon_hillard> they're low power, so should be not terrible at mining efficiency
2261 2011-02-14 18:08:41 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, just check every new file added for a different copyright notice, not hard
2262 2011-02-14 18:09:04 darsk1ez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2263 2011-02-14 18:09:19 <sgornick> gasteve: maybe quip wants help: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3437.0
2264 2011-02-14 18:09:21 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: bogus or silly statements just aren't enforceable, which means copyright reverts back to its strongest initial state.
2265 2011-02-14 18:09:25 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit:  great, that's easy.  jgarzik is really good at noticing different copyright notices :-)
2266 2011-02-14 18:10:38 slush has joined
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2268 2011-02-14 18:10:40 slush has joined
2269 2011-02-14 18:11:13 MingusDew has joined
2270 2011-02-14 18:11:15 <gasteve> in my day job, I deal with licensing and lawyers about this stuff all the time...serious projects organize a foundation of some sort...and all contributors must sign something saying that everything they contribute is original, that their employer has no claim on it, etc...and when they contribute, they give an explicit grant to the foundation for use under an open source license...and in some cases, they transfer copyright ownership to the foun
2271 2011-02-14 18:11:22 <nanotube> gasteve: bitcoin-otc is foss. so is bitcoin-central (davout's exchange)
2272 2011-02-14 18:11:47 <nanotube> gasteve: yea, like apache's contributor license agreement, e.g.
2273 2011-02-14 18:11:55 <midnightmagic> or netbsd's.
2274 2011-02-14 18:11:59 <gasteve> yep, it's probably the best model to follow
2275 2011-02-14 18:12:22 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i never liked the transfer of ownership part, allows the (usually) corporation to then re-license code as proprietary
2276 2011-02-14 18:12:34 <gasteve> yep
2277 2011-02-14 18:13:04 <midnightmagic> it also has a tremendous amount of overhead, is usually riddled with politics by members who are more douchebag than developer, generates negative feelings in the community when they have direct dealings with it, and generally are only efficient for certain specifically-sized communities.
2278 2011-02-14 18:13:17 <jgarzik> gasteve: is the Linux kernel a serious project?  :)
2279 2011-02-14 18:13:26 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i prefer to simply require people to license code under a specific license
2280 2011-02-14 18:13:34 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, much easier less prone to bullshit
2281 2011-02-14 18:13:49 <devon_hillard> The Fusion mobo Asus E35M1-M PRO even has a pci-express slot (16x length, but 4x electrical), so it should make a good energy-efficient miner box
2282 2011-02-14 18:14:03 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: the linux kernel is developed by commercially-paid developers these days..
2283 2011-02-14 18:14:06 <devon_hillard> with a 5850 card perhaps
2284 2011-02-14 18:14:24 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: are you sure?
2285 2011-02-14 18:14:30 * jgarzik doesn't know much about the kernel :)
2286 2011-02-14 18:14:37 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, he is...
2287 2011-02-14 18:14:41 darsk1ez has joined
2288 2011-02-14 18:15:24 MingusDew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2289 2011-02-14 18:15:34 <xelister> phantomcircuit: US copyrights can suck a huge dong in china
2290 2011-02-14 18:15:37 <gasteve> I build non OSS software that uses a lot of OSS software...the lawyers are very concerned about what they term "pedigree"...they want to know that there is a very clear pedigree to all of the code (that all contributors have properly and explicitly granted a license and that there is no possibility of any other party making a claim against what those contributors contributed)...of course you can never be 100% air tight...it's about minimizing th
2291 2011-02-14 18:15:37 <gasteve> that someone might sue you
2292 2011-02-14 18:16:36 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: agree about the license point
2293 2011-02-14 18:16:43 <gavinandresen> Yeah, I kinda think lawyers aren't going to be happy with the pedigree of the bitcoin codebase.  They're unlikely to get Satoshi to talk to them, let alone sign something....
2294 2011-02-14 18:17:14 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2295 2011-02-14 18:17:33 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, just make the developers assume liability if their code is found to be copyrighted
2296 2011-02-14 18:18:16 <gasteve> if only it were that simple
2297 2011-02-14 18:18:18 <phantomcircuit> xelister, sure but china vigorously enforces their own copyrights
2298 2011-02-14 18:18:44 <phantomcircuit> xelister, so for about $50 you can have your stuff copyrighted there also
2299 2011-02-14 18:18:44 <gasteve> it's all a big mess, really
2300 2011-02-14 18:18:55 <gasteve> (speaking of the copyright and patent laws)
2301 2011-02-14 18:19:08 <xelister> phantomcircuit: china copyright woot?
2302 2011-02-14 18:19:19 <xelister> btw, this is good thing that china shows a big middle finger to usa
2303 2011-02-14 18:19:21 <xelister> :)
2304 2011-02-14 18:19:25 <phantomcircuit> xelister, china vigorously enforces domestic patent/copyrights
2305 2011-02-14 18:19:39 <xelister> huh
2306 2011-02-14 18:19:49 <phantomcircuit> xelister, you're not very bright are you?
2307 2011-02-14 18:20:07 <xelister> phantomcircuit: depends on area, what do you have on mind
2308 2011-02-14 18:20:13 slush has joined
2309 2011-02-14 18:20:25 <phantomcircuit> is this a bot?!
2310 2011-02-14 18:20:32 <xelister> seldom people can be bright in all things in todays complicated world ;) but if you ask if I think logicall or not, then sure
2311 2011-02-14 18:20:58 <phantomcircuit> xelister, your english is terrible and you have no idea what you're talking about
2312 2011-02-14 18:20:59 <phantomcircuit> kthx
2313 2011-02-14 18:21:32 <xelister> phantomcircuit: why getting so upset so soon, are you americafag?
2314 2011-02-14 18:21:51 <xelister> did RIAA found out about btc and sent copyrigths zealots here ;)
2315 2011-02-14 18:22:02 <phantomcircuit> xelister, no im NUKE YOU FROM ORBIT BECAUSE I HAD A BAD MORNING fag
2316 2011-02-14 18:22:29 <xelister> perhaps you should make a traip to china and join US in sucking forementioned big dong?
2317 2011-02-14 18:22:31 <phantomcircuit> xelister, ps your country is headed for a massive inflationary depression, enjoy being resource poor
2318 2011-02-14 18:22:40 <xelister> grab some radeons 5970 on the way too ;)
2319 2011-02-14 18:22:41 <jgarzik> gasteve: so... dodging the question?  :)
2320 2011-02-14 18:22:57 <jgarzik> gasteve: Linux kernel policy is /not/ copyright assignment, yet it flourishes
2321 2011-02-14 18:23:09 <xelister> speaking of china
2322 2011-02-14 18:23:15 <jgarzik> gasteve: that's -with- the approval of lawyers
2323 2011-02-14 18:23:20 <xelister> I seen radeons 5970 for 150-200 USD from china suplier
2324 2011-02-14 18:23:43 <phantomcircuit> xelister, i guarantee you they're fake
2325 2011-02-14 18:23:56 <xelister> well, they are not sending fakes
2326 2011-02-14 18:23:57 <phantomcircuit> probably rejected runs
2327 2011-02-14 18:23:59 <MacRohard> might just be stolen ;)
2328 2011-02-14 18:24:04 <jgarzik> copyright assignment is too burdensome, because it creates a Single Point of Failure.  GNU projects require all developers to assign copyright to FSF, and that's actually creating problems.
2329 2011-02-14 18:24:11 <xelister> the entire company was fake actually =) as it turned out
2330 2011-02-14 18:24:14 <phantomcircuit> they'll run well for a month and then the heat will kill them
2331 2011-02-14 18:24:25 <jgarzik> the best policy is the kernel's:  everyone who makes a notably contribution puts their copyright statement at the top
2332 2011-02-14 18:24:32 <xelister> even fake (e.g. horribly manufactured) radeons should be more expensive imo
2333 2011-02-14 18:24:34 <jgarzik> simple, easy, just like a commit credit
2334 2011-02-14 18:24:51 <xelister> America started so strongly with Hollywood and all
2335 2011-02-14 18:24:55 <xelister> thanks to BREAKING copyright
2336 2011-02-14 18:25:10 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: I'm guessing you don't know who I work for, or what I do in my day job...  :)
2337 2011-02-14 18:25:14 <xelister> and/or patents. Video filming was patented in Europa or something like that
2338 2011-02-14 18:25:32 <xelister> funny how now thier turned around heh
2339 2011-02-14 18:26:02 <xelister> btw, recent study for JP gov afair says that breaking copyrights (e.g. fansubs) contribute to better/bigger sellings for the (c) owners, actually
2340 2011-02-14 18:26:05 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2341 2011-02-14 18:28:47 <xelister> phantomcircuit: btw, what "my country is heading for big inflation" ?
2342 2011-02-14 18:30:14 <xelister> USA leads amongst developed countires in spending too much. Also invasi^H bringing freedom costs. Also they dont have industry, factories etc. All offshored
2343 2011-02-14 18:30:31 flags8192 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2344 2011-02-14 18:30:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: invalidate the entire copyright? in all jurisdictions?
2345 2011-02-14 18:31:09 flags8192 has joined
2346 2011-02-14 18:31:40 <luke-jr> gasteve: afaik only Central is open source, and it's Ruby :/
2347 2011-02-14 18:32:11 <nanotube> luke-jr: hey, otc is floss too. and it's python. :)
2348 2011-02-14 18:32:21 Syke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2349 2011-02-14 18:32:35 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: BSD license allows corps to relicense as proprietary also
2350 2011-02-14 18:32:36 <xelister> you know what would rock
2351 2011-02-14 18:32:53 <xelister> copyright just 1 month for pop-culture
2352 2011-02-14 18:33:02 <luke-jr> nanotube: but OTC isn't a real market :P
2353 2011-02-14 18:33:09 <xelister> no tax.  only constant payment per person for "using the country"
2354 2011-02-14 18:33:11 Syke has joined
2355 2011-02-14 18:33:25 <nanotube> luke-jr: of course it is. people trade there...
2356 2011-02-14 18:33:44 <nanotube> ;;wp market
2357 2011-02-14 18:33:45 <gribble> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market | A market is any one of a variety of systems, institutions, procedures, social relations and infrastructures whereby businesses sell their goods, ...
2358 2011-02-14 18:34:36 <xelister> ArtForz: this is good or bad fan? http://brain.pan.e-merchant.com/0/1/05036610/l_05036610.jpg
2359 2011-02-14 18:36:50 rli has left ()
2360 2011-02-14 18:38:09 amwt has joined
2361 2011-02-14 18:43:46 <slush> ;;bc,stats
2362 2011-02-14 18:43:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108080 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 783 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 39 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33902.74748782
2363 2011-02-14 18:43:52 <slush> shit
2364 2011-02-14 18:45:06 bk128 has joined
2365 2011-02-14 18:45:06 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
2366 2011-02-14 18:45:06 bk128 has joined
2367 2011-02-14 18:45:06 albertid has joined
2368 2011-02-14 18:46:36 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2369 2011-02-14 18:46:39 <bk128> who runs bitcoin market?
2370 2011-02-14 18:46:40 MingusDew has joined
2371 2011-02-14 18:50:37 <xelister> slush: the diff is going to shit :[[
2372 2011-02-14 18:51:00 * xelister blames ArtForz
2373 2011-02-14 18:51:35 <jgarzik> bk128: dwdollar
2374 2011-02-14 18:52:47 <gavinandresen> CIA bot.... where are you?
2375 2011-02-14 18:53:05 <newsham> xelister: you're not happy with your dollars per mhps?
2376 2011-02-14 18:55:15 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I think watches git, not svn?
2377 2011-02-14 18:55:33 <jgarzik> it watches.  my grammar is gone to pot today.
2378 2011-02-14 18:55:41 <gavinandresen> Last time I synced svn with git it posted a flood of stuff
2379 2011-02-14 18:55:47 <jgarzik> hrm
2380 2011-02-14 18:55:54 <gavinandresen> Maybe it was changed to only watch git.
2381 2011-02-14 18:56:39 <xelister> newsham: could be more
2382 2011-02-14 18:57:13 <xelister> hm? now it is still fine to get updates to  bitcoin from svn? or should one switch to git?
2383 2011-02-14 18:57:25 <newsham> does bitcoin do ipv6?
2384 2011-02-14 18:57:35 <jgarzik> newsham: no.  but it could.
2385 2011-02-14 18:57:43 <newsham> well, yah, it could :)
2386 2011-02-14 18:57:52 <jgarzik> newsham: space is reserved in the P2P protocol.
2387 2011-02-14 18:57:57 <xelister> or put it in some cool transport
2388 2011-02-14 18:58:08 <xelister> tor works obviously, freenet almost ;), and i2p ? someone devlops?
2389 2011-02-14 19:01:12 <luke-jr> newsham: bitcoin the protocol/tech does, but not any existing clietns
2390 2011-02-14 19:04:03 bitNinja_ has joined
2391 2011-02-14 19:05:32 <CIA-63> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r242 /trunk/ (serialize.h rpc.cpp): Visual C++ compatibility fixes
2392 2011-02-14 19:05:32 <CIA-63> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r243 /trunk/ (build-msw.txt makefile.vc setup.nsi): Update windows build process for 0.3.20 release
2393 2011-02-14 19:05:48 <gavinandresen> Ah, it was just slow.
2394 2011-02-14 19:09:03 ntosme2 has joined
2395 2011-02-14 19:09:12 darsk1ez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2396 2011-02-14 19:09:36 <slush> hehe
2397 2011-02-14 19:09:40 <slush> bitcoind just crashed on the pool
2398 2011-02-14 19:09:52 <slush> the process simply disappear
2399 2011-02-14 19:10:12 <slush> (its back up)
2400 2011-02-14 19:10:39 bitNinja_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2401 2011-02-14 19:10:43 <gavinandresen> slush: running 0.3.20?
2402 2011-02-14 19:10:49 <slush> no, .19
2403 2011-02-14 19:10:51 <jgarzik> slush: I am seeing the same problem on 0.3.20.
2404 2011-02-14 19:11:03 <slush> it was the first time on the pool
2405 2011-02-14 19:11:14 <slush> I'm lucky I just signed on console
2406 2011-02-14 19:11:19 <jgarzik> slush: first time...  what was used previously?
2407 2011-02-14 19:11:21 <jgarzik> .18?
2408 2011-02-14 19:11:35 <slush> "version" : 31900,
2409 2011-02-14 19:12:00 <slush> I'm using .19 from beginning of January
2410 2011-02-14 19:12:05 genjix has joined
2411 2011-02-14 19:12:18 <jgarzik> slush: I'm still trying to parse "it was the first time on the pool"   "it" == what?  and if it is the first time, what was used prior to "it"?
2412 2011-02-14 19:12:25 <slush> crash
2413 2011-02-14 19:12:33 <slush> it was first crash of bitcoind on the pool
2414 2011-02-14 19:12:38 <jgarzik> slush: ok
2415 2011-02-14 19:12:51 lolcat is now known as lolicat
2416 2011-02-14 19:13:09 <jgarzik> slush: if it keeps happening, you can run it inside gdb
2417 2011-02-14 19:13:38 <slush> I don't have experience with that. Does it have any performance impact?
2418 2011-02-14 19:14:22 * xelister ponders writting a pool
2419 2011-02-14 19:14:29 <jgarzik> slush: yes
2420 2011-02-14 19:14:35 <jgarzik> slush: not huge, but yes
2421 2011-02-14 19:14:38 <xelister> it seems to be the new craze heh =)
2422 2011-02-14 19:14:56 darsk1ez has joined
2423 2011-02-14 19:15:00 amwt has quit (Changing host)
2424 2011-02-14 19:15:00 amwt has joined
2425 2011-02-14 19:15:00 amwt has quit (Changing host)
2426 2011-02-14 19:15:00 amwt has joined
2427 2011-02-14 19:15:05 <slush> jgarzik: ok, I'll give it a chance, thanks for the tip
2428 2011-02-14 19:15:56 bitcoiner has joined
2429 2011-02-14 19:16:37 <bitcoiner> I want to set up bitcoin payment for my website but how will I be able to track who has paid what ?
2430 2011-02-14 19:16:57 <bitcoiner> can you get the address of the sender ?
2431 2011-02-14 19:17:08 <xelister> bitcoiner: e.g. thay could set up a label, or generate address for each sender (2nd one seems better)
2432 2011-02-14 19:17:22 <bitcoiner> right thanks
2433 2011-02-14 19:17:29 <xelister> bitcoiner: what website?
2434 2011-02-14 19:17:40 <bitcoiner> but can it be done automaticaly
2435 2011-02-14 19:17:43 <jgarzik> bitcoiner: create a new address for each transaction, and wait until getreceivedbyaddress shows the balance >= order total
2436 2011-02-14 19:17:49 Lachesis has joined
2437 2011-02-14 19:18:14 <bitcoiner> my website is a code booster site for an Iphone app
2438 2011-02-14 19:18:26 <bitcoiner> game app
2439 2011-02-14 19:19:20 <xelister> bitcoiner: your web server could just call  bitcoin getnewaddress  , and show it to customer and store in DB
2440 2011-02-14 19:19:23 <bitcoiner> but I have other website in construction...also I might add that bitcoin payment for my website design/prog co
2441 2011-02-14 19:19:25 <xelister> the address
2442 2011-02-14 19:19:32 <xelister> assocaited in DB with given user id
2443 2011-02-14 19:19:47 <bitcoiner> yup seems like its all good
2444 2011-02-14 19:20:04 <bitcoiner> is there an api or something ?
2445 2011-02-14 19:20:16 <jgarzik> bitcoiner: JSON-RPC
2446 2011-02-14 19:20:26 dishwara has joined
2447 2011-02-14 19:20:27 <bitcoiner> all right thanks
2448 2011-02-14 19:20:34 <jgarzik> bitcoiner: that's what 'getnewaddress', 'getreceivedbyaddress' are, etc.
2449 2011-02-14 19:21:02 <bitcoiner> yeah that why I said api
2450 2011-02-14 19:21:10 amwt has left ()
2451 2011-02-14 19:21:18 <bitcoiner> does it matter if I dont open port 8333 and only have 8 connection ?
2452 2011-02-14 19:22:23 <welterde> luke-jr: too bad the network address in the new spec is 14 bytes too short...
2453 2011-02-14 19:22:48 <luke-jr> welterde: ⁇?
2454 2011-02-14 19:23:14 <luke-jr> what new spec?
2455 2011-02-14 19:23:33 <ntosme2> if everyone starts creating an address per transaction, how long until we run out of possible addresses?
2456 2011-02-14 19:23:42 <welterde> luke-jr: the protocol specification in the wiki
2457 2011-02-14 19:24:32 <cosurgi> is bitcoind compiled with debug info?
2458 2011-02-14 19:24:38 <luke-jr> welterde: how do you figure?
2459 2011-02-14 19:25:08 <OneFixt> ntosme2: probably not before we run out of sunlight
2460 2011-02-14 19:25:11 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2461 2011-02-14 19:25:13 <cosurgi> slush: if you need help running inside gdb, you can count on me (when I'm on irc). I managed to compile bitcoind on debian, so I can also find out how to enable debug info, and then run in gdb
2462 2011-02-14 19:25:20 devon_hillard has joined
2463 2011-02-14 19:25:48 <slush> cosurgi: thanks for the offer. Today I'm busy, maybe tomorrow I'll play with this!
2464 2011-02-14 19:25:50 <luke-jr> welterde: IPv6 addresses are only 16 bytes, which is what it has room for.
2465 2011-02-14 19:26:00 <welterde> luke-jr: indeed
2466 2011-02-14 19:26:13 <luke-jr> so how is it 14 bytes too short?
2467 2011-02-14 19:26:22 <welterde> luke-jr: but for supporting i2p natively it's 14 bytes too short.. that's what I meant ;)
2468 2011-02-14 19:26:23 <bk128> ntosme2: 36^34 = 8.20890115 × 10^52
2469 2011-02-14 19:26:42 <luke-jr> wtf is i2p?
2470 2011-02-14 19:27:14 <dishwara> I too pee?
2471 2011-02-14 19:27:18 <bk128> ntosme2: wait... (26 + 26 + 10)^34 = 8.73609691 × 10^60 addresses maybe?
2472 2011-02-14 19:27:24 <ntosme2> OneFixt: bk128: nevermind, that's certainly a non-issue
2473 2011-02-14 19:27:32 <welterde> luke-jr: https://www.i2p2.de/ - an network quite similar to tor, but focusing on the "hidden services" aspect of tor
2474 2011-02-14 19:28:17 <ntosme2> ah so it's [a-zA-Z0-9]^(34 chars)
2475 2011-02-14 19:28:33 <luke-jr> welterde: oh well, that is unrelated to IPv6
2476 2011-02-14 19:28:38 <luke-jr> welterde: I don't care about anonymity
2477 2011-02-14 19:28:40 <bk128> it looks like it.  I might be wrong though
2478 2011-02-14 19:28:57 <luke-jr> …
2479 2011-02-14 19:29:38 <welterde> xelister: no.. that will never work
2480 2011-02-14 19:29:59 <luke-jr> a-zA-Z0-9 is not 34
2481 2011-02-14 19:30:14 <bk128> there are 34 characters
2482 2011-02-14 19:30:23 <luke-jr> no
2483 2011-02-14 19:30:47 <bk128> what is it then?
2484 2011-02-14 19:30:52 <luke-jr> a-zA-Z0-9 is 62 chars
2485 2011-02-14 19:30:57 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2486 2011-02-14 19:31:16 <luke-jr> anyhow, the address is mainly defined by a 160-bit hash
2487 2011-02-14 19:31:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: what do you think about doing a release-candidate release?  be a good way to get it out there and test it, then do a "0.3.20-final" release.
2488 2011-02-14 19:31:40 <luke-jr> which has over 10^48 possibilities
2489 2011-02-14 19:31:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: let people test it in parallel with us
2490 2011-02-14 19:32:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: (a "release candidate" is slightly more official than simply posting a test on SF)
2491 2011-02-14 19:32:34 <jgarzik> marketing :)
2492 2011-02-14 19:33:18 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: OK.  I don't want to post seven different release candidates, though.... and I just got a report of more windows wxWidgets GUI issues.
2493 2011-02-14 19:33:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: so 6 is ok?
2494 2011-02-14 19:33:37 <gavinandresen> Yeah, six is good.
2495 2011-02-14 19:33:38 * luke-jr ducks
2496 2011-02-14 19:34:13 TD_ has joined
2497 2011-02-14 19:34:14 chmod755 has joined
2498 2011-02-14 19:34:43 <gavinandresen> If nobody steps up to take over Windows development, I'm not sure what to do....
2499 2011-02-14 19:35:07 <gavinandresen> Maybe: if you're running Windows, use MyBitcoin or MtGox.
2500 2011-02-14 19:35:12 <Diablo-D3> hey
2501 2011-02-14 19:35:17 <Diablo-D3> wanst there a dedicated cpu miner?
2502 2011-02-14 19:35:19 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2503 2011-02-14 19:35:28 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2504 2011-02-14 19:35:42 <ntosme2> now to test how far this wimpy card will OC
2505 2011-02-14 19:35:50 bk128 has joined
2506 2011-02-14 19:35:50 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
2507 2011-02-14 19:35:50 bk128 has joined
2508 2011-02-14 19:35:55 <bk128> ugh, internet went out.
2509 2011-02-14 19:36:15 <bk128> luke-jr: I know that.  I did (26+26+10)^34.  the first time, I forgot to add in the uppercase and did (36^34)
2510 2011-02-14 19:36:46 <Diablo-D3> yes no?
2511 2011-02-14 19:36:46 <luke-jr> BTW, I wasn't sure how many letters in the alphabet
2512 2011-02-14 19:36:50 <luke-jr> so I counted on my fingers
2513 2011-02-14 19:37:08 <luke-jr> then converted to decimal for you
2514 2011-02-14 19:37:09 <luke-jr> :p
2515 2011-02-14 19:37:33 <Diablo-D3> oh right jgarzik wrote one
2516 2011-02-14 19:37:49 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: he merged GPU support IIRC
2517 2011-02-14 19:37:58 <Diablo-D3> but can it still do CPU mining?
2518 2011-02-14 19:38:06 <bk128> luke-jr: you have how many fingers?
2519 2011-02-14 19:38:06 larsivi has joined
2520 2011-02-14 19:38:28 <luke-jr> bk128: 8 fingers with independent binary states.
2521 2011-02-14 19:38:34 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: pretty sure, yeah
2522 2011-02-14 19:38:50 <bk128> binary finger counting.  I like it
2523 2011-02-14 19:39:16 * luke-jr glares at his ring fingers for being dependent.
2524 2011-02-14 19:39:40 <bk128> show someone how much 4 is with binary fingers.  they won't like you anymore
2525 2011-02-14 19:39:49 <bk128> 0b00100
2526 2011-02-14 19:39:49 <luke-jr> but it's ok, 8 binary states makes for 2 tonal digits ☺
2527 2011-02-14 19:39:57 <luke-jr> bk128: depends on the person
2528 2011-02-14 19:40:06 <luke-jr> my family only knows that as 4
2529 2011-02-14 19:40:17 <bk128> most people would think you're flicking them off
2530 2011-02-14 19:40:43 <luke-jr> actually, it would be easier to count in one of those electronics-binary-variations
2531 2011-02-14 19:40:51 <luke-jr> where you change 1 bit per increment
2532 2011-02-14 19:40:54 <Diablo-D3> fucking egyptian math, how does it work
2533 2011-02-14 19:41:04 <MartianW> Binary counting is easier if you rest on a table.
2534 2011-02-14 19:41:09 <MartianW> And a finger touching = 1.
2535 2011-02-14 19:41:39 <luke-jr> so, 0000, 0001, 0011, 0111, 1111, 1110, 1100, 1000, 1001, 1011, etc
2536 2011-02-14 19:41:55 <luke-jr> actually, that would have too varying of patterns
2537 2011-02-14 19:42:26 <luke-jr> 0000, 0001, 0011, 0010, 0110, 0111, 0101, 0100, 1100, 1101, 1111, 1110, …
2538 2011-02-14 19:42:29 <luke-jr> that would work
2539 2011-02-14 19:42:48 <luke-jr> would take practice though
2540 2011-02-14 19:43:26 <ntosme2> aka grey codes
2541 2011-02-14 19:43:57 <luke-jr> ntosme2: thanks for the real name of it :D
2542 2011-02-14 19:45:59 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: long term, I'd like to get a mingw32-wxwindows src rpm going on Fedora, and post working instructions on how to do ECDSA-enabled mingw32-openssl.  Would that cover all Fedora obstacles to mingw build?
2543 2011-02-14 19:47:28 <cosurgi> ;;bc,poolstats
2544 2011-02-14 19:47:30 <gribble> HTTP Error 500: INTERNAL SERVER ERROR
2545 2011-02-14 19:48:21 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: I don't, actually. I'd love to learn, though. :-) I'm pretty sure I'm right re: commercially-paid developers, but I'd love to be corrected. It was a disappointment to me to read that..
2546 2011-02-14 19:48:44 <slush> cosurgi: solving
2547 2011-02-14 19:49:38 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: awesome, you wrote an ext2 fuse layer? did you use the actual ext2 stuff or did you write your own?
2548 2011-02-14 19:50:03 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: used e2fsprogs' library
2549 2011-02-14 19:50:25 <bk128> is there a full list of all bitcoin related sites?
2550 2011-02-14 19:50:39 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: that means we don't have to rely on a BSD implementation in netbsd.. we can import your fuse layer into puffs..
2551 2011-02-14 19:50:50 <bk128> if not, can I start one and throw it on the wiki?
2552 2011-02-14 19:51:23 <midnightmagic> whoah, sata driver..
2553 2011-02-14 19:52:09 <jgarzik> bk128: 'trade' does a fine job of covering merchants as it is now
2554 2011-02-14 19:52:50 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: dude, I had no idea. hopefully I haven't said something stupid to you .. you know, that you remember.. :)
2555 2011-02-14 19:53:01 RazielZ has quit ()
2556 2011-02-14 19:53:02 <bk128> I was thinking of the other sites like http://www.taters.net and bitcoincharts.com.  are those on the wiki anywhere?
2557 2011-02-14 19:53:52 TD_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2558 2011-02-14 19:54:01 TD_ has joined
2559 2011-02-14 19:56:03 TD__ has joined
2560 2011-02-14 19:56:40 <luke-jr> bk128: search
2561 2011-02-14 19:57:54 <bk128> okay.
2562 2011-02-14 19:59:21 TD_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2563 2011-02-14 19:59:53 <slush> cosurgi: solved
2564 2011-02-14 20:00:28 <bk128> ;;bc,stats
2565 2011-02-14 20:00:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108090 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 773 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33954.20828359
2566 2011-02-14 20:02:01 grondilu has joined
2567 2011-02-14 20:02:13 grondilu has left ()
2568 2011-02-14 20:02:41 <cosurgi> slush: :)
2569 2011-02-14 20:02:48 <xelister> welterde: what will not work?
2570 2011-02-14 20:03:01 <xelister> luke-jr: i2p is like tor a bit
2571 2011-02-14 20:03:08 <cosurgi> bk128: http://www.google.com/search?q=link%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.bitcoin.org%2F&hl=en
2572 2011-02-14 20:03:18 <cosurgi> bk128: :)
2573 2011-02-14 20:03:35 <bk128> cosurgi: didn't know about the link command.  thanks :)
2574 2011-02-14 20:03:37 <welterde> xelister: yeah.. but it focuses on the "hidden service" aspect of tor, which won't work either
2575 2011-02-14 20:05:08 <welterde> xelister: the outproxy part of tor works fine with bitcoin.. you just connect to other bitcoin nodes "out there" just via tor.. no big problem.. but if you want to exchange the addresses of hidden services or destinations inside of i2p.. that's not possible
2576 2011-02-14 20:05:29 <cosurgi> bk128: it lists all sites that link to this one.
2577 2011-02-14 20:06:46 BlueMatt has joined
2578 2011-02-14 20:09:14 pavelo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2579 2011-02-14 20:12:43 sbc has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2580 2011-02-14 20:15:00 pavelo has joined
2581 2011-02-14 20:17:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: sorry was out to lunch.  I think wxwidgets and openssl are the only obstacles to a mingw-on-fedora build.
2582 2011-02-14 20:18:37 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  we still need somebody to commit to regular testing and building (and fixing!) on windows, no matter how it is built.
2583 2011-02-14 20:19:29 <gavinandresen> Or I just bite the bullet and create a libbitcoin and 'core' bitcoin is just the library and a tiny bitcoind that shows how to use it.
2584 2011-02-14 20:20:06 <gavinandresen> (and let other people maintain/distribute GUIs)
2585 2011-02-14 20:22:04 <ntosme2> a qt4 gui should be dead easy to compile for various platforms
2586 2011-02-14 20:22:04 grondilu has joined
2587 2011-02-14 20:22:10 grondilu has left ()
2588 2011-02-14 20:22:57 <T_X> ahaha, awesome, Pioneer One accepts bitcoin donations now, great :)!
2589 2011-02-14 20:23:10 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2590 2011-02-14 20:23:52 <nanotube> T_X: what's pioneer one?
2591 2011-02-14 20:24:23 <T_X> a series, licensed under creative commons
2592 2011-02-14 20:24:34 <BlueMatt> nanotube a free indie tv show distributed on bittorrent (and others)
2593 2011-02-14 20:24:35 <T_X> from the same guys that also made "The Lionshare"
2594 2011-02-14 20:24:58 <nanotube> ah ic.
2595 2011-02-14 20:25:06 <nanotube> (never heard of lionshare either hah so that doesn't help)
2596 2011-02-14 20:25:09 <BlueMatt> not very good in my opinion but its a cool idea
2597 2011-02-14 20:25:28 <BlueMatt> I wish more people would do similar things
2598 2011-02-14 20:26:43 <T_X> nanotube: well, there were some great CC movies coming up on vodo.net in my opinion
2599 2011-02-14 20:27:39 <T_X> eh @BlueMatt I actually meant
2600 2011-02-14 20:27:52 <BlueMatt> never seen anything but pioneer one
2601 2011-02-14 20:28:07 lyspooner has joined
2602 2011-02-14 20:32:26 prax has joined
2603 2011-02-14 20:33:00 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: libbitcoin would be nice....  I am calculating the work required to rewrite RPC server into select(2)-based system, and have been noting how much easier libbitcoin would make the task
2604 2011-02-14 20:33:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agreed, RE regular windows building.  I think testing came be done with the community
2605 2011-02-14 20:33:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it's a point of pride that I've never run my own cpuminer on windows.  I build on Linux, and rely on test reports
2606 2011-02-14 20:34:41 ntosme2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2607 2011-02-14 20:35:06 <gavinandresen> Well, I'm going to make the Windows build environment VM public so getting a working Windows build shouldn't be an excuse for people not to build/test....
2608 2011-02-14 20:35:24 chmod755 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2609 2011-02-14 20:35:48 <gavinandresen> (actually, I already did mark it public, I'll announce the Amazon EC2 ami id)
2610 2011-02-14 20:41:37 dishwara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2611 2011-02-14 20:46:08 ntosme2 has joined
2612 2011-02-14 20:47:07 * luke-jr thinks libbitcoin would ideally be a new implementation, with a library-like design.
2613 2011-02-14 20:47:15 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2614 2011-02-14 20:47:15 BlueMatt has joined
2615 2011-02-14 20:50:19 RichardG has joined
2616 2011-02-14 20:54:04 toast has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2617 2011-02-14 20:54:38 <comboy> you may have seen this but I just have to share: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u2qRXb4xCU
2618 2011-02-14 21:00:11 <gasteve> funny!
2619 2011-02-14 21:00:20 <comboy> and while I'm spamming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
2620 2011-02-14 21:05:38 flags8192 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2621 2011-02-14 21:07:46 dirtyfil1hy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2622 2011-02-14 21:09:10 <andrew12> whee
2623 2011-02-14 21:10:16 <RichardG> "its so easy to game the system for bitcoin"
2624 2011-02-14 21:10:23 <RichardG> another quote from another bitcoin-hater friend
2625 2011-02-14 21:10:34 <RichardG> asked as in
2626 2011-02-14 21:11:11 <comboy> I'm a bitcoin lover but I agree
2627 2011-02-14 21:11:18 <nanotube> RichardG: game the system how?
2628 2011-02-14 21:11:31 <comboy> market is small currently, you have big share, you may change the price
2629 2011-02-14 21:11:41 <RichardG> I'm trying to ask him
2630 2011-02-14 21:11:51 <RichardG> another quote, a wall of text
2631 2011-02-14 21:11:53 <bk128> what's the cost/generating ratio for ec2?
2632 2011-02-14 21:11:58 <BlueMatt> it wouldnt take too much money, but it would require more than nothing
2633 2011-02-14 21:12:00 <bk128> has anyone done it?
2634 2011-02-14 21:12:07 <RichardG> "problem with any kind of virtual "nameitwhateveryouwant" is that you build up a user base with a custom (and in more or less all cases closed source) software, fix some corporations that will "support" it, and while it works its "magic" in the background (a process you have absolutely no control over) your hardware gets used for something that can't be guaranteed to be legal or clean.
2635 2011-02-14 21:12:07 <RichardG> That's what I mean. And anything pushing the hardware will limit the lifetime of it, that includes Folding@ and others like it, games etc too. But with games I get enjoyment etc. With bitcoin I get nada."
2636 2011-02-14 21:12:39 <comboy> bk128: it totally won't pay off
2637 2011-02-14 21:12:49 <bk128> ok.
2638 2011-02-14 21:13:36 <RichardG> more from same one
2639 2011-02-14 21:13:37 <RichardG> "so unless bitcoin get recognized as a universally usable currency it's just one more in the line "unknowns". And bitcoin isn't the only one. And it's also not uncommon for this kind of apps to disguise itself in the end, once the planned userbase has reached its goal... boom."
2640 2011-02-14 21:13:39 pr0wler has joined
2641 2011-02-14 21:14:15 <RichardG> I am not saying bitcoin is a scam, but it could be. It's certainly not a "get free dollarz here!" haven...
2642 2011-02-14 21:14:21 <RichardG> forgot to quote
2643 2011-02-14 21:14:26 <gasteve> as I understand it, the source code for bitcoin is open...in fact, you get it with every client download don't you?
2644 2011-02-14 21:15:05 <BlueMatt> gasteve: yes
2645 2011-02-14 21:15:07 <RichardG> "and for funs I've requested tax information and company details to review, just to see what kind of organisation it is."
2646 2011-02-14 21:15:49 <gasteve> so, any machiavellian plan would have to be hidden in how the system is crafted, because I'm sure the code has been picked clean for such nefarious things
2647 2011-02-14 21:15:50 <RichardG> i replied with: "it's just a base software created by some japanese guy who is probably a virtual identity, the community does the gpu miners, etc."
2648 2011-02-14 21:16:34 <lyspooner> RichardG, your friend is a cunt
2649 2011-02-14 21:17:13 <gasteve> one question I do have about the system would be what would stop someone from changing the rules about block payout or difficulty by garnering a majority of the network
2650 2011-02-14 21:17:46 <BlueMatt> gasteve: the problem is garnering the majority of the network, as it grows that gets harder and harder
2651 2011-02-14 21:17:50 <ArtForz> no
2652 2011-02-14 21:18:11 <ArtForz> for chaing basic rules like this, it's the client that sets the rules, not the block miner
2653 2011-02-14 21:18:21 <gasteve> agreed...getting a majority of the network would be very difficult I imagine (hope), but for a well funded entity (gov't or a bank), might not be impossible
2654 2011-02-14 21:18:27 <sipa> gasteve: blocks generated by someone who modified the rules would be ignored by most clients
2655 2011-02-14 21:18:30 <gasteve> (or banks or a central bank)
2656 2011-02-14 21:18:32 <ArtForz> exactly
2657 2011-02-14 21:18:32 <BlueMatt> gasteve that and im not sure the client will not ignore blocks which dont match the rules
2658 2011-02-14 21:18:56 <sipa> and if you can get a significant portion of clients accept your blocks, you've just forked bitcoin
2659 2011-02-14 21:18:56 <ArtForz> client WILL ignore blocks not following the rules
2660 2011-02-14 21:18:59 <RichardG> replies
2661 2011-02-14 21:19:01 <RichardG> "which of course raises the question of its true purpose even further..."
2662 2011-02-14 21:19:09 <RichardG> another friend: "its funny when a real monetary value is assigned to these bitcoins"
2663 2011-02-14 21:19:17 <ArtForz> it's a peer to peer currency
2664 2011-02-14 21:19:18 <RichardG> back: "based on that info... a jap guy developing -something- that uses the GPU heavily. So you can generate "virtual money" for yourself. To use where? Who pays for it? Where exactly does the real money come from? Surely not from the jap guys pocket. If so then he truly uses YOUR GPU for something that gives HIM REAL money. RED ALERT if you ask me. etc etc."
2665 2011-02-14 21:19:22 <RichardG> "As they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch"
2666 2011-02-14 21:19:28 <comboy> RichardG: no offence, but why are you quating this ... friend?
2667 2011-02-14 21:19:37 <ArtForz> thats just fucking stupid
2668 2011-02-14 21:20:05 <ArtForz> satoshi sure as hell didnt create a GPU miner.
2669 2011-02-14 21:20:13 <sipa> indeed
2670 2011-02-14 21:20:14 <gasteve> RichardG: your friend doesn't understand how bitcoin works
2671 2011-02-14 21:20:22 <BlueMatt> RichardG your friend doesnt quite understand the concept of economics and value and the details of the btc network
2672 2011-02-14 21:20:24 <ArtForz> there were a few rather sucky miners before, the first high-speed GPu miner was... mine
2673 2011-02-14 21:20:37 <RichardG> "folding@home is for a good cause, it is helping to find out how to cure cancers, see my point?"
2674 2011-02-14 21:20:44 <sipa> it shouldn't be necessary to understand how bitcoin works to find it useful
2675 2011-02-14 21:21:01 <sipa> but if people refuse to listen, just ignore them
2676 2011-02-14 21:21:08 <ArtForz> yep
2677 2011-02-14 21:21:25 <ArtForz> trying to educate ignorant twats is wasted effort
2678 2011-02-14 21:21:39 <BlueMatt> ArtForz sipa: yup ignore trols
2679 2011-02-14 21:21:43 Shfork has joined
2680 2011-02-14 21:21:59 <gasteve> the value of bitcoin is derived from the community that chooses to use it...nothing more, nothing less...
2681 2011-02-14 21:21:59 <RichardG> "if bitmoney [notice misname] was designed to say, scan weather data or calculate planets or whatever then it would be fine. But bitmoney can generate virtual money. Which of course is supposed to be used for something. I.e free money"
2682 2011-02-14 21:22:15 <sipa> nonsense
2683 2011-02-14 21:22:20 <lyspooner> yeah nonsense
2684 2011-02-14 21:22:27 <BlueMatt> ignore the trolls
2685 2011-02-14 21:22:28 <lyspooner> bitcoin *does* scan weather data
2686 2011-02-14 21:22:35 <sipa> huh
2687 2011-02-14 21:22:38 <RichardG> "if people hate others because said people express their opinions and thoughts then surely it's not I that has a problem..."
2688 2011-02-14 21:22:45 <ArtForz> nonse... bullshit.
2689 2011-02-14 21:22:59 <sipa> there is no free money... it has value because people find it valuable - if you don't, don't use it
2690 2011-02-14 21:23:22 <RichardG> I commented about him misplacing the creator of bitcoin with the creators of gpu miners
2691 2011-02-14 21:23:24 <RichardG> "yes, but exactly for WHAT is bitcoin used? Any company choosing to use it as a valid currency must be getting something out of it"
2692 2011-02-14 21:23:49 <sipa> answer: yes, ease of international/electronic payment
2693 2011-02-14 21:24:01 <sipa> which is something very valuable on itself
2694 2011-02-14 21:24:04 <BlueMatt> RichardG bitcoin has value for the same reason usd has value, people will give you something for it period, that is the definition of value from an economic perspective
2695 2011-02-14 21:24:12 <jgarzik> RichardG: yeah, customers
2696 2011-02-14 21:24:24 <RichardG> another friend says: "not everyone has ati raedon 6470s or **** like that "
2697 2011-02-14 21:24:27 <ArtForz> and bitcoin doesn't have chargebacks
2698 2011-02-14 21:24:29 <jgarzik> RichardG: reduction of chargeback risk.
2699 2011-02-14 21:24:40 <jgarzik> RichardG: lower transaction fees (often free)
2700 2011-02-14 21:24:52 <RichardG> another one: "What can you buy with it? NOTHING"
2701 2011-02-14 21:24:56 <sipa> mining isn't the only way of getting bitcoins, in fact, it's only for those who choose to invest with it
2702 2011-02-14 21:25:19 <RichardG> he repeated: "What can you buy with it? NOTHING"
2703 2011-02-14 21:25:31 <lyspooner> RichardG, you can buy calipers
2704 2011-02-14 21:25:32 <RichardG> back to main one: "sure I can say "yeah, you can use bitcoin to buy my videocard"... but then I wouldn't need bitcoin for that at all. I could just use real money instead. Or give it away"
2705 2011-02-14 21:25:37 <jgarzik> RichardG: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
2706 2011-02-14 21:25:41 <RichardG> that's turning into a flamewar on a tiny irc net
2707 2011-02-14 21:25:46 <bitcoiner> maybe his real name is sATIshi
2708 2011-02-14 21:25:54 <RichardG> "because if the value of "money" is changing too much up and down then it becomes very unstable and people tend to abandon it..."
2709 2011-02-14 21:26:03 <RichardG> gave him the trade link
2710 2011-02-14 21:26:04 <lyspooner> mwahahatoshi
2711 2011-02-14 21:26:12 <sipa> people tend to like currencies whose value increases :)
2712 2011-02-14 21:26:20 <ArtForz> again, satoshi was OPPOSED to GPU miners
2713 2011-02-14 21:26:37 <comboy> ArtForz: why?
2714 2011-02-14 21:26:49 <sipa> because it would force cpu miners out of business
2715 2011-02-14 21:26:51 <sipa> and it did
2716 2011-02-14 21:26:55 <ArtForz> because the "race to the bottom" would leave CPU mienrs in the dust
2717 2011-02-14 21:27:08 <comboy> oh well
2718 2011-02-14 21:27:13 <comboy> how can you be opposed to reality
2719 2011-02-14 21:27:17 <ArtForz> I calculated investment/reward and... wrote one.
2720 2011-02-14 21:27:24 <sipa> i think he knew it was inevitable
2721 2011-02-14 21:27:30 <soultcer> Well if he didn't want cpu miners he should have used a problem that can't be solved easily in parallel
2722 2011-02-14 21:27:36 <comboy> if it's possible someone will do it, sure something that wouldn't scale on GPU could have been better
2723 2011-02-14 21:27:52 <comboy> but then ArtForz would build some electronics on which it scales anyway ;p
2724 2011-02-14 21:27:57 <RichardG> ok more comments
2725 2011-02-14 21:27:58 <RichardG> "personally i think virtual currency is a good idea"
2726 2011-02-14 21:28:01 <ArtForz> except fidning something that works well on a CPU but not on anything else is hard. really hard.
2727 2011-02-14 21:28:05 <grubles> but then everyone that has invested in gpus will just invest more in cpus
2728 2011-02-14 21:28:13 <jgarzik> what method satoshi chose, it will eventually end up in ASIC
2729 2011-02-14 21:28:15 <jgarzik> whatever method
2730 2011-02-14 21:28:23 <ArtForz> yep, pretty much
2731 2011-02-14 21:28:34 <RichardG> a friend just said
2732 2011-02-14 21:28:37 <jgarzik> the end state of something like this is a chip optimized for that one task
2733 2011-02-14 21:28:38 <RichardG> "i'll start bitcoining, the bitcoin gadgets thing looks good"
2734 2011-02-14 21:28:38 <comboy> ArtForz: some kind of markov chain?
2735 2011-02-14 21:28:45 <RichardG> i asked him if i could help setting up cpuminer :)
2736 2011-02-14 21:28:46 <edcba> if you want something that works on cpu and not well on gpu you can just make it non parallelisable
2737 2011-02-14 21:29:00 <ArtForz> if it's any kind of bruteforce problem (and it probably has to be), doing it in parallel hardware WILL be faster
2738 2011-02-14 21:29:06 <jgarzik> yep
2739 2011-02-14 21:29:15 <edcba> so instead of finding sha(sha(x)) < target
2740 2011-02-14 21:29:40 <edcba> someting more like sha^x(y) < target
2741 2011-02-14 21:29:51 <ArtForz> ^ ?
2742 2011-02-14 21:30:00 <edcba> power
2743 2011-02-14 21:30:06 <edcba> **
2744 2011-02-14 21:30:11 <sipa> still
2745 2011-02-14 21:30:14 <ArtForz> what doesnt make sense
2746 2011-02-14 21:30:23 <RichardG> "and seriously, those sites that supports bitcoin looks all like they were made in 10 minutes in Frontpage... so it's clearly not yet supported by any major corps."
2747 2011-02-14 21:30:30 <ArtForz> oh, repeated application of sha
2748 2011-02-14 21:30:34 <edcba> yes
2749 2011-02-14 21:30:46 <ArtForz> well ,then you have a HUGE problem
2750 2011-02-14 21:30:58 <ArtForz> whoever can do sha fastest... wins all blocks
2751 2011-02-14 21:31:10 <soultcer> ArtForz: Maybe something which takes a fair amount of ram or has lot of branching operations?
2752 2011-02-14 21:31:12 <sipa> as long as the problem is finding a nonce N for which F(data+N) has a particular property, is inherently parallelizable over all values of N
2753 2011-02-14 21:31:24 <ArtForz> sipa: yep
2754 2011-02-14 21:31:30 <edcba> ArtForz: not necessarily
2755 2011-02-14 21:31:43 <ArtForz> edcba: how would it not be true?
2756 2011-02-14 21:31:54 <edcba> you still have luck playing
2757 2011-02-14 21:32:04 <edcba> y would be dependant on your address
2758 2011-02-14 21:32:07 <ArtForz> if everyone starts at the same initial value and the first solution is after X hashes, whoever can do those X hashes fastest. wins.
2759 2011-02-14 21:32:13 <comboy> well whatever it would be, if you can do it at home, someone with more $ can have 100 times what you have at home and usually can cut costs when doing it on the larger scale
2760 2011-02-14 21:32:16 <ArtForz> so use 1000 addresses
2761 2011-02-14 21:32:25 <ArtForz> and again, easy enough to parallelize
2762 2011-02-14 21:33:00 <ArtForz> using a "decent" amount of ram is also hard
2763 2011-02-14 21:33:09 <RichardG> god that friend which accepted it gave up
2764 2011-02-14 21:33:11 <ArtForz> can't use something that fits in L1
2765 2011-02-14 21:33:20 <RichardG> after i told him pooled mining gives you 2 cents per day of processing
2766 2011-02-14 21:33:34 <RichardG> no, he doesnt have gpus.
2767 2011-02-14 21:33:39 <RichardG> only an ati x1000
2768 2011-02-14 21:33:44 <ArtForz> if it fits in L1, it fits in a FPGA or cheap ASIC
2769 2011-02-14 21:34:08 <ArtForz> and the internal RAM in those is FAST
2770 2011-02-14 21:34:18 <edcba> ok then you just have to let the fastest win problem but with some multiplier according to your address
2771 2011-02-14 21:34:36 <edcba> like 1-16x multiplier according to addr
2772 2011-02-14 21:35:01 <edcba> of course you wouldn't know the multiplier before you solve the problem
2773 2011-02-14 21:35:25 <ArtForz> even in a Spartan6 each blockRAM is dual-ported 400MHz 16-bit = 1.6GB/s
2774 2011-02-14 21:36:09 <edcba> anyway playing with some parameters you could put gpu and cpu at same level
2775 2011-02-14 21:36:22 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2776 2011-02-14 21:36:27 <ArtForz> I doubt it very much
2777 2011-02-14 21:37:48 <ArtForz> oh, and a $180 LX150 has 268 of those blocks
2778 2011-02-14 21:37:49 <nanotube> ArtForz: anyway, it's a good thing you did the gpu mining rather than some griefer trying to disrupt the net. :)
2779 2011-02-14 21:38:26 <nanotube> ArtForz: i think the network is where it's at today in no small part thanks to your careful stewardship of your mining capacity. :)
2780 2011-02-14 21:38:27 <ArtForz> thats 428GB/s aggregate bandwidth, with 1-cycle latency
2781 2011-02-14 21:38:37 <edcba> ok i see the problem
2782 2011-02-14 21:38:45 <edcba> it's sha
2783 2011-02-14 21:38:51 <edcba> we need some dynamic hash
2784 2011-02-14 21:39:04 <comboy> nanotube: why do you assume ArtForz doesnt want to disrupt the net? ;)
2785 2011-02-14 21:39:15 <ArtForz> because if I wanted to, I would have done so a loong time ago
2786 2011-02-14 21:39:17 <Animeking> disrupt the net?
2787 2011-02-14 21:39:28 <comboy> ArtForz: you may be just waiting for a good moment :)
2788 2011-02-14 21:39:42 <comboy> Animeking: double spending for example
2789 2011-02-14 21:39:45 <edcba> you need to do some code is data operation
2790 2011-02-14 21:39:48 <edcba> then gpu will suck
2791 2011-02-14 21:39:51 <gavinandresen> ArtForz is smart-- why would he screw with somethign that's making him good money?
2792 2011-02-14 21:39:51 <Animeking> Double spending?
2793 2011-02-14 21:40:01 <ArtForz> yep, exactly
2794 2011-02-14 21:40:15 <comboy> gavinandresen: yeah that's my thinking too
2795 2011-02-14 21:40:20 <gavinandresen> The technical design of bitcoin is nice, but it is the incentives built into the system that are really genius
2796 2011-02-14 21:40:24 <grubles> because screwing with it could possibly net even more money?
2797 2011-02-14 21:40:33 <edcba> no
2798 2011-02-14 21:40:48 <edcba> only 1 shot
2799 2011-02-14 21:40:57 <comboy> grubles: assuming continuous growth, or even stagnation at current level - no
2800 2011-02-14 21:40:59 <edcba> then bitcoins will lose value
2801 2011-02-14 21:41:32 <edcba> and to double spend you still need to spend once
2802 2011-02-14 21:41:50 <edcba> that means you can't win more than you already have
2803 2011-02-14 21:41:58 <edcba> unless 5x spending etc
2804 2011-02-14 21:42:00 <nanotube> comboy: you have been answered plenty well enough by now heh. :) yes, for those reasons.
2805 2011-02-14 21:42:42 <edcba> (and if you don't succeed you double spending you lose everything :p)
2806 2011-02-14 21:43:14 <comboy> nanotube: yeah I did put ";)" after question mark, but anyway, who knows, maybe ArtForz will have a bad day or something ;)
2807 2011-02-14 21:43:28 <bk128> ArtForz: do you ever plan on selling your ASICs?
2808 2011-02-14 21:43:39 <ArtForz> if they work, maybe
2809 2011-02-14 21:43:52 <comboy> maybe he will feel like destroying something beautiful before commiting suicide ;)
2810 2011-02-14 21:44:01 <bk128> haha
2811 2011-02-14 21:44:02 <ArtForz> problem is assembly costs are driving prices towards "so not worth it"
2812 2011-02-14 21:44:22 <bk128> would you just need to order a lot at once?
2813 2011-02-14 21:44:25 <nanotube> ArtForz: mmm... needs more scale eh :)
2814 2011-02-14 21:44:33 <comboy> assombly? can I ask what % of cost was design?
2815 2011-02-14 21:44:44 <ArtForz> currently, about 60%
2816 2011-02-14 21:44:46 <nanotube> ArtForz: or maybe have someone stick a bunch onto a pcie card, as someone suggested some time ago
2817 2011-02-14 21:44:54 <ArtForz> because I'm doing all the assemby myself, at 0 cost
2818 2011-02-14 21:45:10 <ArtForz> PCIe? fuck no
2819 2011-02-14 21:45:10 <bk128> USB or serial might be easier.  you could run a lot more then
2820 2011-02-14 21:45:18 <ArtForz> yep, doing USB for now
2821 2011-02-14 21:45:28 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, your time is worthless?
2822 2011-02-14 21:45:34 * phantomcircuit affixes troll mask
2823 2011-02-14 21:45:41 <jgarzik> time might be alternately compensated
2824 2011-02-14 21:45:51 <ArtForz> for building a prototype which might or might not work? yes.
2825 2011-02-14 21:46:09 <jgarzik> ie. your employer pays your salary, and lets you work on your own projects as long as your company work is already done.
2826 2011-02-14 21:46:17 <bk128> what package do the asics come in?  do you have carrier boards and power supplies yet?
2827 2011-02-14 21:46:35 <ArtForz> bk128: BGA484, and yes
2828 2011-02-14 21:46:41 * jgarzik was thinking USB or serial, too
2829 2011-02-14 21:46:44 <bk128> I'd imagine it'd be cheapest to use atx psu's if they're 3v3
2830 2011-02-14 21:46:46 <comboy> ArtForz: yourself? I thought the structured ASIC is something requiring a lot of machines to create it (I dont know anything about it)
2831 2011-02-14 21:46:48 <RichardG> got a bit more junk to quote: "you know, bitcoin would make a great ponzi scheme"
2832 2011-02-14 21:46:53 <presence> no reason to do other than serial
2833 2011-02-14 21:46:59 <ArtForz> controller is a spartan6 LX16 for 8 ASICs
2834 2011-02-14 21:47:00 <presence> ethernet is useful, but far from necessary
2835 2011-02-14 21:47:07 <ArtForz> Vcore for the ASICs is 1.0V
2836 2011-02-14 21:47:32 <jgarzik> hey, I agree:  bitcoin might turn out to be an unintentional pyramid scheme...
2837 2011-02-14 21:47:37 <bk128> wow.  how much current @ full load?
2838 2011-02-14 21:47:59 <presence> how?  Only once all the bitcoins are generated...well until they get mathematically unlikely anyway
2839 2011-02-14 21:48:02 <ArtForz> about 10A per chip
2840 2011-02-14 21:48:09 <comboy> damn they were teaching me this VHDLs at university, and I was like, fuck them, I'm never gonna need it... I was so stupid...
2841 2011-02-14 21:48:20 <nanotube> comboy: lol
2842 2011-02-14 21:48:29 larsig has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2843 2011-02-14 21:48:31 <bk128> do you have your own reflow oven?
2844 2011-02-14 21:48:36 <EvanR-work> presence: after a finite time they wont generate anymore
2845 2011-02-14 21:48:41 <ArtForz> modified toaster reflow
2846 2011-02-14 21:48:47 <EvanR-work> its not like quantum physics
2847 2011-02-14 21:48:49 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, im not so sure about the unintentional part
2848 2011-02-14 21:49:03 <RichardG> ;;bc,calc 171000
2849 2011-02-14 21:49:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 171000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 week, 0 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes, and 2 seconds
2850 2011-02-14 21:49:06 <presence> evan: then it can be a pyramid
2851 2011-02-14 21:49:11 <presence> before then not so much
2852 2011-02-14 21:49:13 <bk128> nice.  I have an oven and thermocouple + amp.  haven't started on it yet
2853 2011-02-14 21:49:20 <ArtForz> using a off-the-shelf 60A 3-phase buck converter module for every 4 chips
2854 2011-02-14 21:49:31 <EvanR-work> presence: pyramid?
2855 2011-02-14 21:49:32 <bk128> simpleswitcher?
2856 2011-02-14 21:49:35 <ArtForz> no
2857 2011-02-14 21:49:36 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, how much do the prototypes cost?!
2858 2011-02-14 21:49:47 <ArtForz> power-one YV09T60
2859 2011-02-14 21:50:29 <ArtForz> 5-13.8V in, 0.6-2V out, 60A max continous output current
2860 2011-02-14 21:50:46 <bk128> ArtForz: those are nice.
2861 2011-02-14 21:50:48 dwdollar has joined
2862 2011-02-14 21:51:00 <bk128> what are you using to power those?
2863 2011-02-14 21:51:06 <ArtForz> ATX PSU
2864 2011-02-14 21:51:44 <RichardG> ;;bc,calcd 171000 1
2865 2011-02-14 21:51:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 171000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 25 seconds
2866 2011-02-14 21:53:10 <ArtForz> only drawback is they dont have nifty features like current/voltage/temp readout via I2C
2867 2011-02-14 21:53:30 <genjix> MT`AwAy: could I have some webspace to add automatic wallet backup to the client? ^_^  ;)
2868 2011-02-14 21:53:45 <ArtForz> another nice-to-have feature lost in the war of cost reduction
2869 2011-02-14 21:53:48 <bk128> ArtForz: the 5v out from the atx?  or could you use both the 5 for a few converters and the 12v for a few others
2870 2011-02-14 21:53:55 <ArtForz> 12V only
2871 2011-02-14 21:54:11 <ArtForz> I'm using ATX PSU that's internall 12V only with DC-DC for 5 and 3.3
2872 2011-02-14 21:54:25 <bk128> got it.
2873 2011-02-14 21:54:30 <ArtForz> I/O and support stuff is running off 3.3 from ATX PSU
2874 2011-02-14 21:54:49 <edcba> ok another suggestion for cpu vs gpu : you receive block at t1 you calc sha**f(diff)(nextblock) for nextblock at t1+x with x<m, m is maximal cpu clock/min cpu clock accepted
2875 2011-02-14 21:54:53 <bk128> I never knew they made them 12v with a dc-dc for the 5v and 3v3
2876 2011-02-14 21:55:04 <ArtForz> spartan6 core is from a linear LDO regulator from 3.3
2877 2011-02-14 21:55:12 <edcba> then finally you chose the block having lowest hash
2878 2011-02-14 21:55:13 <ArtForz> most of the 80+ gold ATX psus are
2879 2011-02-14 21:55:25 <ArtForz> s6 has 1.2V core
2880 2011-02-14 21:55:27 <edcba> some timed election
2881 2011-02-14 21:55:42 riush has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2882 2011-02-14 21:55:58 <ArtForz> running I/Os at 3.3 mainly to avoid noise issues from my crappy 2-layer "backplane boards"
2883 2011-02-14 21:56:02 <bk128> ArtForz: are you able to power the 1.2 core directly and bypass the ldo?  or do you need the ldo to reduce noise?
2884 2011-02-14 21:56:04 <edcba> advantages are you have blocks periodically precisely
2885 2011-02-14 21:56:14 <bk128> seems inefficient to drop  over half the voltage with a ldo
2886 2011-02-14 21:56:29 <bk128> ah
2887 2011-02-14 21:56:43 <comboy> [this is fucking cave of random awesome knowledge]
2888 2011-02-14 21:56:51 <ArtForz> erm, a small spartan6 only doing USB <-> serial ASIC protocol doesnt need a lot of power
2889 2011-02-14 21:56:59 riush has joined
2890 2011-02-14 21:57:29 <ArtForz> and I didnt want to bother with yet another switcher for a few 100 mA
2891 2011-02-14 21:57:53 <edcba> ok now we can scrap bitcoin beta change network layer to something more p2p and use a better proof of work problem :)
2892 2011-02-14 21:58:18 <bk128> Ok.  I was thinking the spartans drew a lot more current. couldn't you go with just a bunch of ftdi usb>serial chips  instead on a huge usb hub?  then design the asic a bit differently?
2893 2011-02-14 21:58:30 <ArtForz> errr... no
2894 2011-02-14 21:58:31 <bk128> instead of a spartan*
2895 2011-02-14 21:58:42 <ArtForz> the ASIC runs a custom synchronous serial proto
2896 2011-02-14 21:59:05 <ArtForz> kinda like SPI but with 40 bit word length
2897 2011-02-14 21:59:35 <bk128> weird
2898 2011-02-14 21:59:44 <ArtForz> simpel reason really
2899 2011-02-14 21:59:59 <ArtForz> it can also act as a normal SHA256 engine
2900 2011-02-14 22:00:08 <bk128> ah, nice
2901 2011-02-14 22:00:25 <ArtForz> and for that having a "simple" sync. serial proto capable of pushing 400Mbit/s is kidna useful
2902 2011-02-14 22:00:32 <bk128> is this asic a standard sha core or did you design it yourself?
2903 2011-02-14 22:00:39 <ArtForz> designed it myself
2904 2011-02-14 22:00:49 <ArtForz> stock cores are too inefficient/slow
2905 2011-02-14 22:01:09 <ArtForz> because design goals are vastly different
2906 2011-02-14 22:01:13 <comboy> you actually designe it yourself or you hire somebody?
2907 2011-02-14 22:02:01 <ArtForz> did VHDL + map, ASIC company did place/route/timing
2908 2011-02-14 22:02:16 <bk128> something like easic.com?
2909 2011-02-14 22:02:27 <bk128> or a full asic
2910 2011-02-14 22:02:31 <ArtForz> yea, something pretty close to that
2911 2011-02-14 22:02:45 <comboy> nice, you seem to have pretty vast knowledge
2912 2011-02-14 22:02:45 <ArtForz> though not using their single-mask approach
2913 2011-02-14 22:03:01 <ArtForz> (they got a patent on that...)
2914 2011-02-14 22:03:19 <ArtForz> so it's plain ole "3 metal layer masks"
2915 2011-02-14 22:03:32 <andrew12> ;;bc,calcd 1700 1
2916 2011-02-14 22:03:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1700 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 42 minutes and 6 seconds
2917 2011-02-14 22:03:35 <bk128> how long does it take to get that fabbed?
2918 2011-02-14 22:03:44 <bk128> did you order< 100?
2919 2011-02-14 22:03:51 <ArtForz> from design submit to packaged chip, 8 weeks
2920 2011-02-14 22:04:04 <ArtForz> 100 (min initial order qty)
2921 2011-02-14 22:04:34 <edcba> hmm timed based elections for next block sucks because you can fabricate a fake chain a lot more easily
2922 2011-02-14 22:04:41 <bk128> did you say earlier that they performed similar to a 5970 but used 1/10 the power?
2923 2011-02-14 22:04:47 <edcba> i knew it was too easy :(
2924 2011-02-14 22:04:51 <ArtForz> not really similar to a 5970
2925 2011-02-14 22:05:07 <bk128> do you know how many mhash/sec they'll get?
2926 2011-02-14 22:05:17 <ArtForz> 200Mh/s
2927 2011-02-14 22:05:21 <ArtForz> at what I guess should end up around 12W at the plug
2928 2011-02-14 22:05:27 <phantomcircuit> lol @ NULL padded packet contents
2929 2011-02-14 22:05:30 <bk128> wow.
2930 2011-02-14 22:05:38 <phantomcircuit> who designed the network protocol?
2931 2011-02-14 22:05:46 <sipa> satoshi
2932 2011-02-14 22:05:57 <andrew12> Some strange man, in Japan.
2933 2011-02-14 22:06:00 <bk128> is satoshi still active with bitcoin?
2934 2011-02-14 22:06:04 <genjix> no
2935 2011-02-14 22:06:14 <sipa> maybe
2936 2011-02-14 22:06:17 <lyspooner> yes
2937 2011-02-14 22:06:34 <comboy> :))
2938 2011-02-14 22:06:40 <genjix> what sipa said
2939 2011-02-14 22:06:50 <ArtForz> now that the masks are done and with decent order qty, about $200/chip
2940 2011-02-14 22:06:58 <phantomcircuit> you think people would switch clients if i wrote a better protocol/client?
2941 2011-02-14 22:07:07 yoR has joined
2942 2011-02-14 22:07:10 <genjix> no
2943 2011-02-14 22:07:18 <bk128> wow.  even though this is a small qty first run it's better than using gpu's in the long run
2944 2011-02-14 22:07:19 <sipa> it'd have to be vastly superior i think
2945 2011-02-14 22:07:20 <andrew12> phantomcircuit: you can't change the protocol.. other clients won't accept it. it's gotta work with all the clients
2946 2011-02-14 22:07:29 <Scootz> ;;bc,calcd 3100 1
2947 2011-02-14 22:07:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3100 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 23 minutes and 5 seconds
2948 2011-02-14 22:07:40 <phantomcircuit> andrew12, obviously would still support the old protocol, call it dual stack
2949 2011-02-14 22:07:47 <yoR> Hi everybody
2950 2011-02-14 22:07:53 <andrew12> phantomcircuit: make me a libbitcoin :)
2951 2011-02-14 22:07:55 <bk128> cost wise.  but I guess that doesn't figure in psu's, the spartans, the software development, pcb's, assembly, etc
2952 2011-02-14 22:08:15 <ArtForz> yep
2953 2011-02-14 22:08:16 <comboy> phantomcircuit: you cannot really improve it keeping support for old protocol (can you?)
2954 2011-02-14 22:08:17 <phantomcircuit> andrew12, actually that was my plan, this RPC stuff is silly
2955 2011-02-14 22:08:23 <ArtForz> thats just the bare chip
2956 2011-02-14 22:08:24 <andrew12> i agree
2957 2011-02-14 22:08:28 <xelister> ArtForz: going to sell'em?
2958 2011-02-14 22:08:38 <bk128> haha everyone wants to know
2959 2011-02-14 22:08:53 darsk1ez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2960 2011-02-14 22:09:00 <ArtForz> add support components, PCBs, controller, case, mainboard/cpu/PSU ... closer to $300/chip, still without duties, assembly cost, profit, anything
2961 2011-02-14 22:09:03 <comboy> +1 for libbitcoin
2962 2011-02-14 22:09:20 <bk128> do you know what a run of 1000 asics would cost / chip?
2963 2011-02-14 22:09:31 <xelister> - artfort's shop? we are the borg, we shall take your asics   - ok, 160,000 earth USD.   - I said, we shall TAKE your asics
2964 2011-02-14 22:09:33 chaord has joined
2965 2011-02-14 22:09:35 <ArtForz> so while $/difficulty is this high, it's completely uneconomical
2966 2011-02-14 22:09:39 <comboy> ArtForz: but now when you have it, it scales
2967 2011-02-14 22:09:48 <ArtForz> nope
2968 2011-02-14 22:09:59 <comboy> and you dont have to worry there's no more 5970 in shops ;p
2969 2011-02-14 22:10:15 <phantomcircuit> comboy, i see no reason i couldnt
2970 2011-02-14 22:10:21 <ArtForz> let them eat cake... errr... use 5870s
2971 2011-02-14 22:10:25 <xelister> ArtForz: could you go on a vacation for 2 months?
2972 2011-02-14 22:10:34 <bk128> I know.  I ordered a rig last night with 2x 5870's.  they're 200 each with rebates.  the only 5970's lying around are $600-700+
2973 2011-02-14 22:10:36 <xelister> with your miner
2974 2011-02-14 22:10:44 <ArtForz> or just wait for 6990, should be out any day now
2975 2011-02-14 22:10:55 <comboy> phantomcircuit: I mean any kind of security issues stays if you support it, it is as strong as the weakest part
2976 2011-02-14 22:10:59 <xelister> 6990 is slower then 5870 and suck cocks in linux right?
2977 2011-02-14 22:11:07 <ArtForz> ?
2978 2011-02-14 22:11:16 <ArtForz> 6990 should end up about as fast as 5970
2979 2011-02-14 22:11:34 <ArtForz> 6970 is exactly as fast as 5870
2980 2011-02-14 22:11:52 <yoR> What is the easiest way to test if a miner works? Input it with an already found block?
2981 2011-02-14 22:11:53 <bk128> why do most of the 6000 cards have lower hash rates than the 5000 cards?
2982 2011-02-14 22:11:59 <ArtForz> (well, except you have to use SDK 2.3, which has broken multiGPU support for OpenCL...)
2983 2011-02-14 22:12:02 <bk128> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
2984 2011-02-14 22:12:02 <andrew12> yoR: testnet
2985 2011-02-14 22:12:14 <ArtForz> because ATI decided that 5xxx was too shader-heavy
2986 2011-02-14 22:12:15 <phantomcircuit> comboy, the problem with the old protocol is extensibility not security, the problem with the current code base however....
2987 2011-02-14 22:12:24 <andrew12> yoR: mine to http://testnet:testnet@vps.andrew12.net:18332 -- testnet rpc server
2988 2011-02-14 22:12:31 <xelister> ArtForz: and what is the 6xxx equiv. of 5770 ?
2989 2011-02-14 22:12:37 <ArtForz> there isnt one
2990 2011-02-14 22:12:45 puddinpop_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2991 2011-02-14 22:12:48 <ArtForz> 6870 is the closest thing
2992 2011-02-14 22:12:51 <xelister> ok, what are mhash of top 6xxx cards?
2993 2011-02-14 22:13:16 <xelister> the constant is worse for 6xxx since they have now LESS effective instruction set or something like that, right?
2994 2011-02-14 22:13:17 <bk128> sounds like it'd be the same as the 5970
2995 2011-02-14 22:13:19 Jimbo_ has joined
2996 2011-02-14 22:13:27 <ArtForz> no
2997 2011-02-14 22:13:27 <comboy> phantomcircuit: oh about that yes, I would love to see more implementations, I don't know hom many people are there currently fully understand protocol
2998 2011-02-14 22:13:32 <ArtForz> 6970, exactly as fast as 5870 for me with my CAL miner
2999 2011-02-14 22:13:33 <yoR> andrew12: That would work in the final stages, but what works if you just start out and want to try the hashing algorithms?
3000 2011-02-14 22:13:41 <genjix> does anybody here use windows?
3001 2011-02-14 22:13:51 Jimbo_ has quit (Client Quit)
3002 2011-02-14 22:13:51 <genjix> does windows support installing programs into $PATH?
3003 2011-02-14 22:13:55 <xelister> genjix: LobsterMan :P
3004 2011-02-14 22:13:57 <ArtForz> clocks/hash is *better* for 69xx
3005 2011-02-14 22:14:00 <lolicat> Is there any bitcoin jobs?
3006 2011-02-14 22:14:04 <ArtForz> but 69xx has less shaders*MHz
3007 2011-02-14 22:14:06 <genjix> i.e can you run programs from the shell without providing a full path?
3008 2011-02-14 22:14:07 <xelister> lolicat: sure,
3009 2011-02-14 22:14:10 <xelister> ```pic
3010 2011-02-14 22:14:12 <xelister> Tired of **CPU** pooled 'mining' with no result? GET PAID NOW! Send pic of "Xelister and bitcoin rock! :*" pen-written: 1 BTC on hand; If ur cute girl: 2; 5 on back or above breasts; 10 on them(>18yo!). ~15 BTC for nice girls(PM me). Not faked! Real offer:) PM before!
3011 2011-02-14 22:14:14 <genjix> programs like gpg and scp
3012 2011-02-14 22:14:16 <ArtForz> in the end, it evens out
3013 2011-02-14 22:14:19 <andrew12> yoR: oh, you can just try doing the origin block..
3014 2011-02-14 22:14:26 <bk128> are the shaders what you use for the rot, xor, and operations?
3015 2011-02-14 22:14:30 <ArtForz> yes
3016 2011-02-14 22:14:31 llama has joined
3017 2011-02-14 22:14:34 <andrew12> or some other block that's known
3018 2011-02-14 22:14:49 <RichardG> oh hey xelister
3019 2011-02-14 22:14:49 <ArtForz> 5870 has 1600 ALUs @ 850MHz
3020 2011-02-14 22:14:50 <comboy> genjix: afair there was some configurable PATH variable inside control panel (at least on windows 95 :D)
3021 2011-02-14 22:14:51 <lolicat> xelister: I am male
3022 2011-02-14 22:14:54 <LobsterMan> genjix you need to add their install dir to the path
3023 2011-02-14 22:14:56 <bk128> wow
3024 2011-02-14 22:14:56 <lolicat> Unfortunatly
3025 2011-02-14 22:14:57 <ArtForz> 6970 has 1536 ALUs @ 880MHz
3026 2011-02-14 22:15:04 <xelister> hi RichardG and your new box
3027 2011-02-14 22:15:08 <RichardG> xelister: i need to renew my membership in your fund... got a pentium dual core, but it has intel g41 graphics
3028 2011-02-14 22:15:13 <yoR> andrew12: That is what I suggested yes, kk, thanks :)
3029 2011-02-14 22:15:19 <genjix> LobsterMan: so if in python i run scp or gpg then it'd work?
3030 2011-02-14 22:15:27 <andrew12> yoR: you're welcome :)
3031 2011-02-14 22:15:31 <xelister> RichardG: you mean pool?  pool operator is slush in "slush pool" there are also few other pools
3032 2011-02-14 22:15:34 <ArtForz> 58xx has a very weird shader arch in comparison to 69xx
3033 2011-02-14 22:15:38 <bk128> so why would you buy the 6970's?  wouldnt the 5870's be a better value?  i assume they'd be a lot cheaper (at $200 now)
3034 2011-02-14 22:15:38 <LobsterMan> genjix im not sure about that, but you can try
3035 2011-02-14 22:15:44 <yoR> There aren't any Java miners besides the GPU DiabloMiner right? (before I reinvent the wheel)
3036 2011-02-14 22:15:46 <RichardG> what
3037 2011-02-14 22:15:48 <RichardG> <llama> is this ganis?
3038 2011-02-14 22:15:48 <RichardG> llama is ~Doug@unaffiliated/llama * Anonymous User
3039 2011-02-14 22:15:51 <xelister> yoR: there will be soon
3040 2011-02-14 22:16:14 <comboy> ArtForz: if not electronics maybe you would consider selling some kind of mining contracts like Vladimir? don't you want to have some hedge?
3041 2011-02-14 22:16:28 <ArtForz> 58xx has 5 ALUs in one VLIW unit (4 simple int/SP + 1 int/DP/trig), 16 VLIWs in one SIMD
3042 2011-02-14 22:16:39 darsk1ez has joined
3043 2011-02-14 22:16:44 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3044 2011-02-14 22:16:52 phantomcircuit has joined
3045 2011-02-14 22:17:00 <ArtForz> 69xx has 4 ALUs in one VLIW unit (they can do 4 simple int/SP OR 1 int/DP/trig combined), 16 VLIWs in one SIMD
3046 2011-02-14 22:17:43 <ArtForz> having 4 32 bit and one 32/64 bit ALU in a VLIW is ... weird ... when all your datapaths are 128 bit wide
3047 2011-02-14 22:18:15 <ArtForz> thing is, 69xx arch should be a lot easier for shader compilers to optimize for
3048 2011-02-14 22:18:29 chaord has left ()
3049 2011-02-14 22:18:42 <bk128> Is all this info in publicly available ATI datasheets?
3050 2011-02-14 22:18:45 <ArtForz> yes
3051 2011-02-14 22:18:59 <Animeking> Hmm, I wonderi f there are any legal things I should know about if I ever with draw what I have from Mt.Gox or ever can :\
3052 2011-02-14 22:19:03 <bk128> ok.  I'll go look at those
3053 2011-02-14 22:19:23 <RichardG> ;;bc,calcd 1100 1
3054 2011-02-14 22:19:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1100 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 1 hour, 5 minutes, and 4 seconds
3055 2011-02-14 22:19:28 <RichardG> ,,bc,calcd 1100 1
3056 2011-02-14 22:19:32 <RichardG> ,,bc,calcd
3057 2011-02-14 22:19:34 <gribble> (bc,calcd <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
3058 2011-02-14 22:19:34 <gribble> (bc,calcd <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
3059 2011-02-14 22:19:42 <xelister> bk128: I have one for 0.01 btc ;P
3060 2011-02-14 22:19:44 <ArtForz> anyways, 6990 should end up about as fast as 5970
3061 2011-02-14 22:20:06 <bk128> ArtForz: thanks for the explanation :)
3062 2011-02-14 22:21:12 <ArtForz> now if only the SDK devs @ ATI/AMD could get ther heads out of their asses and fix that pile of shit
3063 2011-02-14 22:21:56 <bk128> so don't use 2.3 when I set up my rig this weekend?
3064 2011-02-14 22:22:09 <ArtForz> not if you wnt to use OpenCL with multiple GPUs
3065 2011-02-14 22:22:12 <ArtForz> use 2.1
3066 2011-02-14 22:22:18 <phantomcircuit> Animeking, there is practically no way to withdraw from any of the markets w/o running afoul of money laundering regulations, luckily unless you're withdrawing a large sum (>5KUSD) you dont have to report it
3067 2011-02-14 22:22:20 <ArtForz> if you have 68xx or 69xx, you're hosed
3068 2011-02-14 22:22:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: er, you dont need 2.3 for 68xx do you?
3069 2011-02-14 22:22:37 <ArtForz> 2.2
3070 2011-02-14 22:22:41 <Diablo-D3> Feh.
3071 2011-02-14 22:22:46 <bk128> I'm running one box with 2 6870's and 1 box with one 6870
3072 2011-02-14 22:22:50 <comboy> ArtForz: so I would guess you have been already looking inside sdk source trying to improve it? :>
3073 2011-02-14 22:22:52 <xelister> ATI
3074 2011-02-14 22:22:54 <xelister> Atiiiiiiiiiiiiii
3075 2011-02-14 22:22:59 <xelister> щ（ﾟДﾟщ）     why you hired noobs? whyyyyy
3076 2011-02-14 22:23:02 <Animeking> So anything less than 5k is good
3077 2011-02-14 22:23:04 <Animeking> hurray.
3078 2011-02-14 22:23:05 <bk128> so I should use 2.1?
3079 2011-02-14 22:23:10 <xelister> Ati.  ಠ_ಠ . I'm dissapointed
3080 2011-02-14 22:23:18 <Animeking> Sigh, I'm mostly worried because I don't want to do anything illegal by accident lol
3081 2011-02-14 22:23:41 <tcatm> So SDK 2.2 works with 6xxxx?
3082 2011-02-14 22:24:05 <xelister> Animeking: lolz
3083 2011-02-14 22:24:06 <comboy> Animeking: in my country (poland), if I sell btc, I need to pay tax like from other earnings (at least that's what tax guy said)
3084 2011-02-14 22:24:12 <ArtForz> 2.1 doesnt support any 6xxx, 2.2 added 68xx support, 2.3 69xx support
3085 2011-02-14 22:24:19 <Animeking> ah
3086 2011-02-14 22:24:32 <ArtForz> 2.2 broke OpenCL multiGPU, 2.3 is... still broken
3087 2011-02-14 22:24:41 <nanotube> Animeking: mtgox has limits of 1k usd per person per day withdrawal. to stay under fincen regulatory limit for msb's
3088 2011-02-14 22:24:51 <ArtForz> maybe they'll fix it in 2.5
3089 2011-02-14 22:24:58 <Animeking> Hmm
3090 2011-02-14 22:25:06 <Animeking> msb's?
3091 2011-02-14 22:25:06 <tcatm> I could try to hack 2.3 into 2.1
3092 2011-02-14 22:25:14 <Animeking> God, is there a place I can read about all this. :\
3093 2011-02-14 22:25:15 <nanotube> Animeking: money services business
3094 2011-02-14 22:25:16 <ArtForz> well, have fun trying
3095 2011-02-14 22:25:20 <Animeking> ah
3096 2011-02-14 22:25:20 <xelister> ArtForz: so 2.3 will effectivly use just ½ of an 6990 ?
3097 2011-02-14 22:25:32 <ArtForz> well, if you use OpenCL... pretty much
3098 2011-02-14 22:25:38 <xelister> nanotube: mtgox is in what country? is it legally registered company?
3099 2011-02-14 22:25:40 <bk128> wait, so I want 2.1.  that will support 2 5870's in a box?
3100 2011-02-14 22:25:45 * andrew12 feels so cool that he can install arch linux on his mac without some lame guide
3101 2011-02-14 22:25:45 <ArtForz> yes
3102 2011-02-14 22:26:02 <ArtForz> 2.1 is fine with any number of 5xxx up to 8 GPU cores
3103 2011-02-14 22:26:06 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3104 2011-02-14 22:26:07 <phantomcircuit> andrew12, lol
3105 2011-02-14 22:26:08 <ArtForz> = quad 5970
3106 2011-02-14 22:26:10 <ArtForz> well, given ATIs historic track record, I' guessing 2.4 will be even MORE broken
3107 2011-02-14 22:26:30 <nanotube> xelister: no idea but it does have bank account in usa.
3108 2011-02-14 22:26:33 <ArtForz> xelister: mtgox is a LLC in Costa Rica
3109 2011-02-14 22:26:39 <bk128> ArtForz: ok.  is there any performance difference if I install win7 / win xp / linux
3110 2011-02-14 22:26:43 <bk128> 32 or 64 bit
3111 2011-02-14 22:26:49 <bk128> or what would you recommend?
3112 2011-02-14 22:27:02 <luke-jr> bk128: how much memory does your PC have?
3113 2011-02-14 22:27:03 <andrew12> anyone got a macbook that they want help installing arch on for btc? ;)
3114 2011-02-14 22:27:04 <ArtForz> dunno, I only run linxu on my miners
3115 2011-02-14 22:27:12 <bk128> luke-jr: 4gb of ddr 3
3116 2011-02-14 22:27:14 <RichardG> i'm tired of hearing this
3117 2011-02-14 22:27:17 <RichardG> "then why do you support that crap? it's just earning money that you can't spend on stuff that's worth spending on, you can't buy actual money with it and you get small sums, i mean $17 a day for a ati radeon 6850? yes i earn more than that in a HOUR, so what's the fucking purpose? bitcoin is a peice of crap"
3118 2011-02-14 22:27:39 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3119 2011-02-14 22:27:43 <luke-jr> bk128: to use more than 3 GB, you need a 64-bit kernel; ATi drivers won't work with a 32-bit userland and 64-bit kernel, so you'll need a complete 64-bit system
3120 2011-02-14 22:27:52 <bk128> RichardG: where was that posted?
3121 2011-02-14 22:28:01 <luke-jr> bk128: *or* a 64-bit VM at least
3122 2011-02-14 22:28:20 <RichardG> a tiny irc net i'm a member on
3123 2011-02-14 22:28:21 <bk128> luke-jr: didn't know you could run a 64 bit vm on a 32 bit OS
3124 2011-02-14 22:28:24 <genjix> RichardG: i told my sister she can earn $200 a week on her souped up gaming rig because she goes to school
3125 2011-02-14 22:28:33 <ArtForz> you can't buy actual money with it? wow, good to know. </sarcasm>
3126 2011-02-14 22:28:34 <luke-jr> RichardG: the point is NOT mining
3127 2011-02-14 22:28:42 <genjix> her excuse: i like my sleep
3128 2011-02-14 22:28:46 <luke-jr> RichardG: also, he has to WORK for that >$17/hr :P
3129 2011-02-14 22:28:52 skeledrew has joined
3130 2011-02-14 22:29:07 <bk128> so can I throw a standard 64 bit ubuntu desktop os on the box?
3131 2011-02-14 22:29:07 <luke-jr> genjix: wtf?
3132 2011-02-14 22:29:17 <bk128> or server os
3133 2011-02-14 22:29:23 <RichardG> ok my friend is asking you all to come into the irc net
3134 2011-02-14 22:29:25 <luke-jr> bk128: note that GPU mining kills your performance, even if you don't use 3D
3135 2011-02-14 22:29:26 <ArtForz> yeah
3136 2011-02-14 22:29:29 <RichardG> wouldnt be ok to do that
3137 2011-02-14 22:29:32 <luke-jr> RichardG: this is the IRC net :P
3138 2011-02-14 22:29:38 <luke-jr> RichardG: he can come here
3139 2011-02-14 22:29:39 <ArtForz> guess USD or EUR aren't real enough for his majesty
3140 2011-02-14 22:29:40 <comboy> :DD
3141 2011-02-14 22:29:46 <comboy> let's all go to ircnet :D
3142 2011-02-14 22:29:47 <bk128> I plan on just sshing into the box anyways.
3143 2011-02-14 22:29:50 <nanotube> luke-jr: RichardG no we don't want to trolls here
3144 2011-02-14 22:29:57 <ArtForz> or GBP or RUB for that matter
3145 2011-02-14 22:30:02 <luke-jr> nanotube: #bitcoin-trolling ?
3146 2011-02-14 22:30:11 <RichardG> nanotube: not a troll, just one who doesnt get the point of bitcoin
3147 2011-02-14 22:30:14 <nanotube> or... any of the other currencies that people have standing orders for on bitcoin-otc. :)
3148 2011-02-14 22:30:16 <RichardG> and needs reeducation
3149 2011-02-14 22:30:17 <ArtForz> yep
3150 2011-02-14 22:30:28 <nanotube> RichardG: well... have him read the paper and the wiki
3151 2011-02-14 22:30:36 <nanotube> wasting time trying to convince people is ... a waste of time
3152 2011-02-14 22:30:39 <luke-jr> we should stop telling people about mining.
3153 2011-02-14 22:30:48 <RichardG> he said he doesn't want to reveal his ip on freenode
3154 2011-02-14 22:30:53 <bk128> the second to top comment bothers me http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/10/189246/Online-Only-Currency-BitCoin-Reaches-Dollar-Parity
3155 2011-02-14 22:30:56 <phantomcircuit> RichardG, lol srsly?
3156 2011-02-14 22:30:58 <RichardG> but interestingly
3157 2011-02-14 22:30:59 <luke-jr> RichardG: then he is a retard, since IPs are public info
3158 2011-02-14 22:31:01 <nanotube> convincing people who come in with an open mind... ++ convincing people who are adamantly against... waste.
3159 2011-02-14 22:31:01 <RichardG> his freenode account has a cloak
3160 2011-02-14 22:31:04 noagendamarket has joined
3161 2011-02-14 22:31:24 <nanotube> luke-jr: haha yea we should start that chan.
3162 2011-02-14 22:31:25 ntosme2 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
3163 2011-02-14 22:31:29 PatSter21 has joined
3164 2011-02-14 22:31:31 <PatSter21> a retard eh
3165 2011-02-14 22:31:32 <bk128> alright, i'm heading home.  thanks again for the info
3166 2011-02-14 22:31:33 <luke-jr> also, he'll NEVER be convinced to use BitCoin if he doesn't want his IP known
3167 2011-02-14 22:31:42 grubles has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3168 2011-02-14 22:31:45 ntosme2 has joined
3169 2011-02-14 22:31:48 <genjix> he should get off the internet
3170 2011-02-14 22:31:51 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3171 2011-02-14 22:31:52 <luke-jr> yes, I agree
3172 2011-02-14 22:31:53 user99672 has joined
3173 2011-02-14 22:31:55 <genjix> if he wants to protect his IP
3174 2011-02-14 22:32:02 <PatSter21> what's the fucking point of bitcoin then if you don't mine? my friend here richardg said mining his how you get bitcoins
3175 2011-02-14 22:32:03 <luke-jr> since even going to a webpage makes his IP public
3176 2011-02-14 22:32:08 <PatSter21> what else do you do?
3177 2011-02-14 22:32:12 <luke-jr> PatSter21: no, you buy bitcoins or earn them
3178 2011-02-14 22:32:15 <PatSter21> surveys that are scams?
3179 2011-02-14 22:32:26 <user99672> PatSter21: could you be nice to people for once?
3180 2011-02-14 22:32:31 <luke-jr> PatSter21: for example, I offer VPS hosting services, which people can pay me in bitcoins
3181 2011-02-14 22:32:44 <PatSter21> but how else do you earn them
3182 2011-02-14 22:32:46 <luke-jr> I've also spent about 200 USD on bitcoins
3183 2011-02-14 22:32:57 <gasteve> eh boy...here we go
3184 2011-02-14 22:32:58 <comboy> let's move real discussions to #bitcoin-trolling ;p
3185 2011-02-14 22:33:11 <RichardG> yeah let's move it
3186 2011-02-14 22:33:12 <PatSter21> other than spending money on bitcoins when you could have just bought the real thing for less money
3187 2011-02-14 22:33:13 <user99672> I apologize for my friend Patrick...
3188 2011-02-14 22:33:18 <user99672> he has no self restraint.
3189 2011-02-14 22:33:19 <comboy> gasteve: yeah "here we go" and I see picture in my mind ;)
3190 2011-02-14 22:33:21 <ArtForz> yep, here come the trolls
3191 2011-02-14 22:33:31 <RichardG> let's move to #bitcoin-trolling
3192 2011-02-14 22:33:33 <genjix> you be trowlinz!!
3193 2011-02-14 22:33:33 <RichardG> as comboy suggests
3194 2011-02-14 22:33:46 <luke-jr> PatSter21: you could buy a lot of bitcoins, and not spend them for months or even years
3195 2011-02-14 22:33:49 <ArtForz> like I said, we should've moved development talk to #bitcoin-randomcrap ages ago
3196 2011-02-14 22:33:55 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im interested in hosting
3197 2011-02-14 22:33:58 <luke-jr> if you just kept USD, they would lose value over time
3198 2011-02-14 22:34:06 <luke-jr> but bitcoins *gain* value over time long-term
3199 2011-02-14 22:34:14 <PatSter21> ugh
3200 2011-02-14 22:34:17 PatSter21 has quit (Client Quit)
3201 2011-02-14 22:34:19 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps&currency=BTC
3202 2011-02-14 22:34:20 <ntosme2> luke-jr: you hope
3203 2011-02-14 22:34:22 <ArtForz> lol
3204 2011-02-14 22:34:24 <genjix> lol
3205 2011-02-14 22:34:25 <user99672> you guys can come back to #bitcon-dev.
3206 2011-02-14 22:34:26 <user99672> he left.
3207 2011-02-14 22:34:43 <luke-jr> ntosme2: it's in my interest, as an investor, to help it succeed ;)
3208 2011-02-14 22:34:45 <ArtForz> that was entirely too easy
3209 2011-02-14 22:34:48 Wack0 has joined
3210 2011-02-14 22:34:59 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
3211 2011-02-14 22:34:59 TD__ is now known as TD
3212 2011-02-14 22:35:01 <luke-jr> which I can do while earning even more bitcoins, by offering my services for BTC
3213 2011-02-14 22:35:14 <luke-jr> and encouraging others to invest and accept BTC
3214 2011-02-14 22:35:39 <luke-jr> bitcoin's present nature is similar to a pyramid scheme, really
3215 2011-02-14 22:35:46 <RichardG> if i was to have a bitcoin service
3216 2011-02-14 22:35:52 <ArtForz> well... not really
3217 2011-02-14 22:35:54 <RichardG> it would be IPv6 IRC server hosting.
3218 2011-02-14 22:35:55 <luke-jr> the difference being that once we reach the end of the pyramid, everyone still has their money
3219 2011-02-14 22:36:03 <ArtForz> yes
3220 2011-02-14 22:36:07 <genjix> bitcoin is a pyramid scheme
3221 2011-02-14 22:36:11 <ArtForz> which makes it ... not a pyramid scheme
3222 2011-02-14 22:36:12 <luke-jr> RichardG: you could use my VPS for it :p
3223 2011-02-14 22:36:21 <RichardG> luke-jr: sorry no btc incoming
3224 2011-02-14 22:36:22 <luke-jr> RichardG: as long as you don't plan to be a DDoS target I mean
3225 2011-02-14 22:36:26 <RichardG> weak cpu mining gives me cents per day
3226 2011-02-14 22:36:32 <luke-jr> ArtForz: I said similar, not exactly.
3227 2011-02-14 22:36:48 <RichardG> why IPv6? it's in wide adoption, and in price a free /64 > a god knows how expensive /31
3228 2011-02-14 22:37:07 <RichardG> (the /31 is ipv4 two addresses)
3229 2011-02-14 22:37:09 <ArtForz> yes, early adopters might gain a huge profit compared to everyone else
3230 2011-02-14 22:37:17 <luke-jr> RichardG: I charge 3 BTC/mo for a /64 :p
3231 2011-02-14 22:37:20 <ArtForz> like for pretty much every disruptive technology
3232 2011-02-14 22:37:27 <user99672> RichardG: I unbanned you
3233 2011-02-14 22:37:28 <user99672> come back
3234 2011-02-14 22:37:31 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3235 2011-02-14 22:37:34 <RichardG> ok
3236 2011-02-14 22:37:37 <luke-jr> RichardG: but a single IPv6 address is included
3237 2011-02-14 22:37:37 <RichardG> luke-jr: nah people just use he.net
3238 2011-02-14 22:37:48 <lolicat> luke-jr: Do you have a gigabit box with unlimited bandwith for 60btc?
3239 2011-02-14 22:37:49 <luke-jr> RichardG: I charge 5 BTC/mo for an IPv4 address ;)
3240 2011-02-14 22:37:57 <ArtForz> he.net would be really neat if it didnt suck so badly
3241 2011-02-14 22:37:57 <luke-jr> lolicat: don't be silly
3242 2011-02-14 22:38:00 <RichardG> he.net gives you 4 tunnels
3243 2011-02-14 22:38:07 <RichardG> with a /64 and a /48
3244 2011-02-14 22:38:13 <luke-jr> RichardG: HE.net requires an IPv4 address
3245 2011-02-14 22:38:14 <lolicat> luke-jr: I get that from another site
3246 2011-02-14 22:38:15 <ArtForz> which go down. all. the. fucking. time.
3247 2011-02-14 22:38:18 <comboy> luke-jr: aren't you afraid of people using these accounts for bad things? usually you have some reference to person to give to police thanks to payment
3248 2011-02-14 22:38:18 <ntosme2> ArtForz: what is the issue you have with it?
3249 2011-02-14 22:38:18 <RichardG> luke-jr: yeah...
3250 2011-02-14 22:38:35 <ArtForz> usually tunnel endpoint playing dead
3251 2011-02-14 22:38:37 <phantomcircuit> comboy, how is that his problem?
3252 2011-02-14 22:38:53 <RichardG> ArtForz: plus nats hate proto41
3253 2011-02-14 22:38:57 <ArtForz> also the occasional multi-minute ping
3254 2011-02-14 22:39:00 <luke-jr> comboy: I'm not aware that I'm required to get such info, just shut it down when demanded by court order or DMCA takedown.
3255 2011-02-14 22:39:02 <RichardG> yea
3256 2011-02-14 22:39:03 <comboy> phantomcircuit: well it's your problem if hacking was done from your server, I've been running hosting service so I know ;)
3257 2011-02-14 22:39:05 <RichardG> plus nats hate proto41
3258 2011-02-14 22:39:15 <RichardG> my rebranded tp-link (chinese brand) router filters it off
3259 2011-02-14 22:39:17 <ntosme2> I've never noticed it down, are you doing a constant ping to test or something?
3260 2011-02-14 22:39:25 <ArtForz> no
3261 2011-02-14 22:39:38 <phantomcircuit> comboy, sure officers here's the payment information, good luck with that
3262 2011-02-14 22:39:41 <comboy> luke-jr: maybe it is that, in my country they were demanding such info
3263 2011-02-14 22:39:47 <ArtForz> well, I did for a while
3264 2011-02-14 22:39:52 <luke-jr> comboy: I just get an email when that happens. I take care of it and let the datacenter know
3265 2011-02-14 22:39:57 <RichardG> one of the main reasons my host would be IPv6 because of the number of ipv6 addresses you could get for free according to current policies...
3266 2011-02-14 22:40:06 <RichardG> *is the number
3267 2011-02-14 22:40:15 <ArtForz> but I'm on IRC via ipv6 a lot
3268 2011-02-14 22:40:16 <ntosme2> ArtForz: I've been using it for the last year at least and I haven't noticed downtime
3269 2011-02-14 22:40:23 <ArtForz> weird
3270 2011-02-14 22:40:23 <phantomcircuit> comboy, your country sounds lame
3271 2011-02-14 22:40:26 <phantomcircuit> comboy, ;)
3272 2011-02-14 22:40:36 <ArtForz> what tunnel server are you on?
3273 2011-02-14 22:40:36 <luke-jr> RichardG: not "for free"
3274 2011-02-14 22:40:51 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, your vps seems kind of expensive
3275 2011-02-14 22:41:11 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I priced them before dollar parity. Make me an offer :P
3276 2011-02-14 22:41:34 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, your USD priced plans also seem kind of expensive...
3277 2011-02-14 22:41:36 <ArtForz> I'm on tserv1.fra1
3278 2011-02-14 22:41:46 <RichardG> i'm in 1mia1
3279 2011-02-14 22:41:53 <RichardG> seriously no nodes in central/south america?
3280 2011-02-14 22:41:55 <comboy> phantomcircuit: I dont think it's lame (not suprisingly) but I do agree law here, just like in UE, is screwed
3281 2011-02-14 22:42:00 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: eh, you mean "not unreasonably dirt cheap because of overselling"?
3282 2011-02-14 22:42:06 <ntosme2> 216.218.224.42
3283 2011-02-14 22:42:10 <comboy> luke-jr: :))
3284 2011-02-14 22:42:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I don't have thousands of customers to oversell with, so yeah ;)
3285 2011-02-14 22:42:20 <ArtForz> might just be overloaded server
3286 2011-02-14 22:43:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you get what you pay for.
3287 2011-02-14 22:43:18 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, fair enough
3288 2011-02-14 22:43:33 <ArtForz> looks like lot of germans like reader.ipv6.xsnews.nl ;)
3289 2011-02-14 22:43:39 <luke-jr> actually, I would be surprised to learn anyone has problems using the full Burst amount of memory
3290 2011-02-14 22:43:41 grubles has joined
3291 2011-02-14 22:44:04 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, also what's this about root being available as an option?
3292 2011-02-14 22:44:07 <grubles> awesome, my power strip just died
3293 2011-02-14 22:44:21 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the base prices are for shell accounts. VPS are optional add-ons
3294 2011-02-14 22:44:27 <ArtForz> grubles: wha?
3295 2011-02-14 22:44:35 <luke-jr> 7 BTC/mo for KVM, or 3 BTC/mo for OpenVZ
3296 2011-02-14 22:45:04 <luke-jr> meh, let's talk USD since it's basically equivalent for now: 4 and 2
3297 2011-02-14 22:45:13 <grubles> artforz, my power strip just shut off for no reason, along with my 2 mining rigs
3298 2011-02-14 22:45:32 <RichardG> grubles: look for overloads?
3299 2011-02-14 22:45:35 <grubles> i thought the power went out but the power strip just stopped working
3300 2011-02-14 22:46:00 <ArtForz> he's dead, jim.
3301 2011-02-14 22:46:18 <xelister> speaking of dead
3302 2011-02-14 22:46:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so KVM 512MB ram/0.5TB transfer would be 51 USD/month?
3303 2011-02-14 22:46:36 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: figured some people only care about running their server with a dedicated port or IP, and don't really want root, so why charge em? ;)
3304 2011-02-14 22:46:39 <ntosme2> grubles: does it have a re-settable breaker?
3305 2011-02-14 22:46:46 <grubles> im not too knowledgable of electricity so i just assume it was the power strip :P
3306 2011-02-14 22:46:46 <xelister> pulling NIC out of running PCI slot is not good idea >_>  (should screwed more)
3307 2011-02-14 22:46:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah fair enough
3308 2011-02-14 22:47:09 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 48?
3309 2011-02-14 22:47:15 <luke-jr> or are you adding an IPv4 address in?
3310 2011-02-14 22:47:18 <ArtForz> but yes, good power strips are a must, especially if you're running stuff like multiple 5970s
3311 2011-02-14 22:47:36 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah
3312 2011-02-14 22:47:51 <grubles> ntosme2, i doubt it. it was a fairly old monster power strip (embarrased emoticon)
3313 2011-02-14 22:47:55 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, unfortunately only 2% of people online have ipv6 addrs :P
3314 2011-02-14 22:47:59 <ArtForz> yeah, fra1 is loaded pretty heavily
3315 2011-02-14 22:48:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: $5 less if you don't need the disk space
3316 2011-02-14 22:48:26 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: this is true, but depends on what you need it for
3317 2011-02-14 22:48:29 puddinpop has joined
3318 2011-02-14 22:48:55 <edcba> someting is lacking to bitcoin
3319 2011-02-14 22:48:56 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: one of my customers, for example, only cares for outbound IPv4 address plus a single SSH port, so he pays for IPv4 proxy/NAT
3320 2011-02-14 22:49:05 <phantomcircuit> ah
3321 2011-02-14 22:49:11 <edcba> you can't give a private key
3322 2011-02-14 22:49:40 <grubles> without a doubt i will be getting a good power strip now
3323 2011-02-14 22:49:48 <phantomcircuit> lol so im reading the network code in the current client
3324 2011-02-14 22:49:50 <phantomcircuit> it's just
3325 2011-02-14 22:49:50 <edcba> ie you want to send some money to someone without him needing to generate a receive address
3326 2011-02-14 22:49:51 <phantomcircuit> wow
3327 2011-02-14 22:49:53 <luke-jr> XD
3328 2011-02-14 22:50:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: also, I don't allow mining on the VPS :P
3329 2011-02-14 22:50:11 <user99672> so this is the joint RichardG always is telling us about. seems nice.
3330 2011-02-14 22:50:16 <edcba> phantomcircuit: wait until you read the real hard stuff
3331 2011-02-14 22:50:20 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol that would be a horrible financial decision
3332 2011-02-14 22:50:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it wouldn't be worth it to you, and can potentially affect overall QOS for me
3333 2011-02-14 22:50:26 <RichardG> luke-jr: do you provide timed VPSes
3334 2011-02-14 22:50:30 <edcba> ie maturation/validation of blocks etc
3335 2011-02-14 22:50:30 <luke-jr> RichardG: ?
3336 2011-02-14 22:50:34 <RichardG> where for example you pay one month and you get the VPS for one month
3337 2011-02-14 22:50:34 <phantomcircuit> edcba, oh im just at the freaking definitions
3338 2011-02-14 22:50:44 ZenMondo has left ()
3339 2011-02-14 22:50:48 <luke-jr> RichardG: um, that's how VPS usually are? :P
3340 2011-02-14 22:50:54 <RichardG> luke-jr: but thanks
3341 2011-02-14 22:51:03 <ArtForz> the real fun is imo sigscript and sig generation/validation
3342 2011-02-14 22:51:04 <edcba> then you'll see some 6 constant in code and have to really think hard about what it means :)
3343 2011-02-14 22:51:09 <RichardG> i'll look into ordering a timed vps as soon as i can get enough coins
3344 2011-02-14 22:51:40 <luke-jr> RichardG: as opposed to what? :p
3345 2011-02-14 22:51:40 <edcba> oh fuck scripts forgot those lol
3346 2011-02-14 22:51:46 doublec has joined
3347 2011-02-14 22:51:46 doublec has quit (Changing host)
3348 2011-02-14 22:51:46 doublec has joined
3349 2011-02-14 22:51:54 <lolicat> All vpses are timed
3350 2011-02-14 22:51:59 <phantomcircuit> / Global state variables
3351 2011-02-14 22:52:01 <phantomcircuit>  // Global state variables
3352 2011-02-14 22:52:10 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
3353 2011-02-14 22:52:10 <lolicat> There are probably a few where you have to pay for a year, but I havent seen a lot of them
3354 2011-02-14 22:52:21 <RichardG> but actual timed VPSes are convenient
3355 2011-02-14 22:52:29 <luke-jr> timed as opposed to what⁇ :/
3356 2011-02-14 22:52:41 <edcba> phantomcircuit: i think the worst in that code is that there is not such many bugs
3357 2011-02-14 22:52:44 <lolicat> RichardG: There is NO such thing as not timed vpses.
3358 2011-02-14 22:52:46 <luke-jr> lolicat: I give discounts for yearly payment generally :p
3359 2011-02-14 22:52:49 <RichardG> luke-jr: in normal VPSes, you pay them as normal
3360 2011-02-14 22:52:52 <RichardG> but on timed VPSes
3361 2011-02-14 22:53:01 <RichardG> for example, you can pay it for two months and it will last two months
3362 2011-02-14 22:53:06 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3363 2011-02-14 22:53:07 <RichardG> and it gets shut down automatically after two month
3364 2011-02-14 22:53:08 <RichardG> s
3365 2011-02-14 22:53:13 <phantomcircuit> edcba, i bet you i find at least one :/
3366 2011-02-14 22:53:17 <edcba> yes
3367 2011-02-14 22:53:17 <luke-jr> RichardG: you mean, whether I leave it running and bill you for longer?
3368 2011-02-14 22:53:22 <edcba> accidentally
3369 2011-02-14 22:53:24 <luke-jr> or just shut it down?
3370 2011-02-14 22:53:26 <lolicat> luke-jr: Still, you can pay monthly with the majority of the providers
3371 2011-02-14 22:53:36 <RichardG> luke-jr: shut it down after the time period
3372 2011-02-14 22:53:50 <edcba> i don't remember pinpointing exact line of code though
3373 2011-02-14 22:53:50 <luke-jr> RichardG: I can do that, provided you tell me a month in advance. :p
3374 2011-02-14 22:54:05 <lolicat> I am pretty sure luke-jr won't chase you for more bitcoins, but just will gracefully turn of your vps...
3375 2011-02-14 22:54:06 <edcba> but i didn't succeed compiling code so i don't really mind :)
3376 2011-02-14 22:54:10 <luke-jr> RichardG: so when you sign up, you'd just say "if you don't get a payment by next month, I'm cancellign" :p
3377 2011-02-14 22:54:13 <phantomcircuit> NODE_NETWORK = (1 << 0)
3378 2011-02-14 22:54:15 <phantomcircuit> wtf
3379 2011-02-14 22:54:17 <RichardG> luke-jr: ok
3380 2011-02-14 22:54:25 <RichardG> as soon as I get enough coins
3381 2011-02-14 22:54:29 <RichardG> I might order a month-long VPS.
3382 2011-02-14 22:54:49 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: LOL wtf
3383 2011-02-14 22:54:50 <edcba> phantomcircuit: i think it has some spiritual meaning : 1 über alles
3384 2011-02-14 22:55:06 <edcba> or maybe not
3385 2011-02-14 22:55:20 <phantomcircuit> edcba, shift left 0 bits
3386 2011-02-14 22:55:25 <lolicat> luke-jr: What happens when you have limited bandwith if someone sends you a bunch of packages?
3387 2011-02-14 22:55:26 <luke-jr> maybe it's that way to document that you can't use a NODE_NETWORK = 3 validly
3388 2011-02-14 22:55:28 <edcba> yes 1 then :)
3389 2011-02-14 22:55:34 <ArtForz> so?
3390 2011-02-14 22:55:36 <luke-jr> lolicat: packages?
3391 2011-02-14 22:55:40 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol
3392 2011-02-14 22:55:57 <lolicat> luke-jr: If I send 150gb to a vps with limited bandwith, will they just get shut down?
3393 2011-02-14 22:56:00 molecular has joined
3394 2011-02-14 22:56:07 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|can I talk?
3395 2011-02-14 22:56:10 <ArtForz> at least it's not 0x20 >> 5
3396 2011-02-14 22:56:10 <edcba> no
3397 2011-02-14 22:56:14 <luke-jr> lolicat: never had it happen yet ☺
3398 2011-02-14 22:56:18 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, xD
3399 2011-02-14 22:56:29 <luke-jr> lolicat: normally, the Extra Transfer (64 GB Prepaid) at $3/mo would kick in
3400 2011-02-14 22:56:34 BCBot has joined
3401 2011-02-14 22:56:46 <edcba> molecular|zapp: ok you can now
3402 2011-02-14 22:56:53 * lolicat uses 64gb bandwith in 12 houres...
3403 2011-02-14 22:56:54 <luke-jr> lolicat: but if I have no billing info for you, I might just rate limit until I hear from you
3404 2011-02-14 22:57:06 * molecular zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|talks
3405 2011-02-14 22:57:12 <luke-jr> lolicat: legally, for non-home stuff? :P
3406 2011-02-14 22:57:27 <lolicat> Semi-legally for non-home stuff
3407 2011-02-14 22:57:31 <luke-jr> I don't snoop, but illegal stuff *is* against my ToS :p
3408 2011-02-14 22:57:48 <luke-jr> if you need more bw, it's cheaper if you pre-pay for it
3409 2011-02-14 22:57:58 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what about questionably legal?
3410 2011-02-14 22:57:59 <phantomcircuit> xD
3411 2011-02-14 22:58:02 <luke-jr> err, I quoted the wrong bit earlier
3412 2011-02-14 22:58:12 <luke-jr> not "Extra Transfer (64 GB Prepaid)", but "Over-Transfer (8 GB)"
3413 2011-02-14 22:58:37 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: if I get a takedown demand, with the i's dotted, I comply :p
3414 2011-02-14 22:58:59 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, k yeah that's not gonna happen
3415 2011-02-14 22:59:05 <lolicat> luke-jr: That is why it'
3416 2011-02-14 22:59:13 <lolicat> s bether to use netherland hostcenters
3417 2011-02-14 22:59:25 <luke-jr> lolicat: that wouldn't be acceptable to many of my customers
3418 2011-02-14 22:59:38 <luke-jr> game hosting requires low pings
3419 2011-02-14 22:59:41 <lolicat> I have had two vpses on the RS network
3420 2011-02-14 22:59:53 <lolicat> It is fast, and reliable
3421 2011-02-14 23:00:12 <phantomcircuit> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3476.0
3422 2011-02-14 23:00:17 * phantomcircuit affixes troll mask
3423 2011-02-14 23:00:22 * luke-jr is honestly surprised none of the gamers have mined in their off-game time, and paid for hosting with that
3424 2011-02-14 23:00:40 <lolicat> Gamers don't have off-game time!
3425 2011-02-14 23:00:47 <luke-jr> lolicat: they sleep sometime
3426 2011-02-14 23:00:54 <luke-jr> and a lot of gamers have school
3427 2011-02-14 23:01:01 <RichardG> exoware doesnt seem to accept bitcoins since when i found it in the official site
3428 2011-02-14 23:01:02 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, common misconception
3429 2011-02-14 23:01:23 <lolicat> I used to plac Counter-Strike in school
3430 2011-02-14 23:01:36 <luke-jr> lolicat: but your home PC wasn't busy with that
3431 2011-02-14 23:01:51 <RichardG> luke-jr: your table confuses me
3432 2011-02-14 23:02:03 <luke-jr> RichardG: ?
3433 2011-02-14 23:02:04 <RichardG> what will a vps in your service
3434 2011-02-14 23:02:05 <lolicat> Nope, it was a proxy to break firewalls
3435 2011-02-14 23:02:06 <RichardG> with BASE options
3436 2011-02-14 23:02:06 <RichardG> cost
3437 2011-02-14 23:02:28 <luke-jr> RichardG: define "BASE options"
3438 2011-02-14 23:02:40 <RichardG> luke-jr: standard options
3439 2011-02-14 23:02:47 <luke-jr> define "standard" -.-
3440 2011-02-14 23:02:52 <RichardG> I mean
3441 2011-02-14 23:02:56 <RichardG> your table is confusing
3442 2011-02-14 23:02:59 <lolicat> luke-jr: Cheapest maybe
3443 2011-02-14 23:03:03 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3444 2011-02-14 23:03:04 <RichardG> i dont know if i will pay 3/6/9 btc for a base vps
3445 2011-02-14 23:03:11 <luke-jr> cheapest VPS would be $9/mo
3446 2011-02-14 23:03:24 <luke-jr> with a dedicated IPv4 address, $12/mo
3447 2011-02-14 23:04:02 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, how much ram is that?
3448 2011-02-14 23:04:19 <RichardG> i was confused in what would i pay
3449 2011-02-14 23:04:27 <RichardG> if i'd pay for rates, virtualization technology, or both...
3450 2011-02-14 23:04:30 <RichardG> now i know
3451 2011-02-14 23:04:32 <RichardG> both.
3452 2011-02-14 23:04:44 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 128 MB guaranteed; 256 MB burst
3453 2011-02-14 23:04:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you need a pricing wizard ;)
3454 2011-02-14 23:05:13 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: perhaps ☺
3455 2011-02-14 23:05:24 <luke-jr> but I don't really have enough business to justify it
3456 2011-02-14 23:05:39 <luke-jr> I would think throwing add-ons under "Add-ons" would be clear <.<
3457 2011-02-14 23:06:10 ducki2p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3458 2011-02-14 23:06:28 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it's pretty easy to do with jQuery :P
3459 2011-02-14 23:06:57 * lolicat wishes he invested all his money in bitcoins
3460 2011-02-14 23:07:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: will that work with Javascript disabled? :P
3461 2011-02-14 23:07:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yes? lol
3462 2011-02-14 23:07:13 ducki2p has joined
3463 2011-02-14 23:07:13 <comboy> phantomcircuit: no respectable unix guru puts javascript on his page ;p
3464 2011-02-14 23:07:13 <RichardG> so that means
3465 2011-02-14 23:07:27 <RichardG> in a base vps i would pay for rate + virtualization technology?
3466 2011-02-14 23:07:56 <luke-jr> RichardG: yes
3467 2011-02-14 23:08:00 <user99672> I would never invest all my money in one organization. Say it goes downhill. You're screwed.
3468 2011-02-14 23:08:05 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you leave the page as it is, but if javascript is available you hide the boxes and only put them back when you need the answer to a question
3469 2011-02-14 23:08:12 <luke-jr> RichardG: or just 'rate' if you don't need a VPS
3470 2011-02-14 23:08:15 <lolicat> user99672: Now all my money is in one bank
3471 2011-02-14 23:08:28 <user99672> different story. That's a bank...
3472 2011-02-14 23:08:29 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, or slap some radio/checkbox es next to stuff with javascript and have a price layout
3473 2011-02-14 23:08:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it's easy enough
3474 2011-02-14 23:09:52 <luke-jr> meh, not enough business to justify the time :p
3475 2011-02-14 23:09:57 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
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3477 2011-02-14 23:10:09 <phantomcircuit> also i would like to congratulate you on being one of the only people to ever legitimately use a <table>
3478 2011-02-14 23:10:21 <luke-jr> lol
3479 2011-02-14 23:11:09 <phantomcircuit> sizeof(::pchMessageStart)
3480 2011-02-14 23:11:18 <phantomcircuit> is that seriously a null namespace
3481 2011-02-14 23:11:22 <luke-jr> LOL
3482 2011-02-14 23:12:04 <luke-jr> anyhow, supper time
3483 2011-02-14 23:12:05 <luke-jr> bbl
3484 2011-02-14 23:12:11 <phantomcircuit> someone got to smart with their c++ class
3485 2011-02-14 23:12:16 <phantomcircuit> s/to/too/
3486 2011-02-14 23:13:51 <phantomcircuit> i also really like headers.h
3487 2011-02-14 23:13:54 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
3488 2011-02-14 23:16:03 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3489 2011-02-14 23:17:00 <phantomcircuit> oh wow
3490 2011-02-14 23:17:08 <phantomcircuit> build with -Wall
3491 2011-02-14 23:17:10 <phantomcircuit> you'll cry
3492 2011-02-14 23:17:38 <user99672> #include <stdio.h>
3493 2011-02-14 23:17:39 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
3494 2011-02-14 23:17:40 <user99672> :-P
3495 2011-02-14 23:17:42 <user99672> jk
3496 2011-02-14 23:21:05 Jakakun has joined
3497 2011-02-14 23:21:09 Jakakun has quit (Client Quit)
3498 2011-02-14 23:21:20 <RichardG> seemingly my friend's vps tends to be disconnected from internet from time to time
3499 2011-02-14 23:21:28 <RichardG> i had minerd die because it couldnt resolve the pool
3500 2011-02-14 23:21:33 Jakakun has joined
3501 2011-02-14 23:21:33 Jakakun is now known as `Jaka
3502 2011-02-14 23:22:00 <phantomcircuit> typedef unsigned long long  uint64;
3503 2011-02-14 23:22:12 <phantomcircuit> ...
3504 2011-02-14 23:22:44 <ArtForz> blame mickeysoft
3505 2011-02-14 23:22:59 <yoR> Are there any (cpu) miners that can go through a NTLM proxy..?
3506 2011-02-14 23:23:16 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, oh if only
3507 2011-02-14 23:23:27 <RichardG> yoR never heard of one
3508 2011-02-14 23:23:35 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, there is separate code for windows
3509 2011-02-14 23:23:38 <RichardG> ntlm proxy i mean
3510 2011-02-14 23:23:42 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3511 2011-02-14 23:23:54 <ArtForz> really? wow.
3512 2011-02-14 23:24:28 <ArtForz> never noticed that part
3513 2011-02-14 23:24:37 <phantomcircuit> #define for  if (false) ; else for
3514 2011-02-14 23:24:38 <phantomcircuit> what
3515 2011-02-14 23:24:39 <phantomcircuit> the
3516 2011-02-14 23:24:39 <phantomcircuit> fuck
3517 2011-02-14 23:24:55 <ArtForz> though ULL *is* 64 bits on pretty much any sane system
3518 2011-02-14 23:24:58 <ArtForz> ?
3519 2011-02-14 23:25:21 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/uint256.h
3520 2011-02-14 23:26:13 <TD> workaround for a compiler bug, it seems
3521 2011-02-14 23:26:14 <ArtForz> wild guess, workaround for VC stupidity
3522 2011-02-14 23:26:20 albertid has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
3523 2011-02-14 23:26:52 <RichardG> anyone got a miner on win64?
3524 2011-02-14 23:27:00 <yoR> RichardG: Mickeysoft Corperate Proxy.. blegh, I want to enslave all the pc's at work who only work 8 hours a day max
3525 2011-02-14 23:27:19 BCBot has joined
3526 2011-02-14 23:27:39 <RichardG> i think isa servers are somehow http
3527 2011-02-14 23:27:57 <yoR> RichardG: I've already changed DiabloMiner to be able to handle this proxy, but most GPU's don't support OpenCL, so only the CPU is left as target
3528 2011-02-14 23:28:33 <RichardG> well is it just a CONNECT http://host:port HTTP/1.1
3529 2011-02-14 23:29:43 <devon_hillard> cos(theta) + cos(2 theta) polar
3530 2011-02-14 23:30:05 <devon_hillard> Valentine's card: "You are my sine to my cosine"
3531 2011-02-14 23:30:21 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|lol, my cpu temp is 22°C
3532 2011-02-14 23:30:33 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|(put my miner outside, it's below freezing point there)
3533 2011-02-14 23:31:20 <devon_hillard> serious miners have abandoned central heating and just use waste heat from their GPUs
3534 2011-02-14 23:32:07 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|:)
3535 2011-02-14 23:32:14 <noagendamarket> lol
3536 2011-02-14 23:32:45 <RichardG> gotta go. bye
3537 2011-02-14 23:32:49 RichardG has quit (Quit: QUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII T)
3538 2011-02-14 23:32:51 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|seriously, I can heat my room (pretty small) with a single 5970 @1.125V 890Mhz
3539 2011-02-14 23:33:01 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|dont have to be serious miner
3540 2011-02-14 23:33:14 <molecular> zapp!~molecular@188-192-73-214-dynip.superkabel.de|a serious miner could maybe heat his swimming pool or something
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3550 2011-02-14 23:48:20 <phantomcircuit> lol i was finally able to build a client from source
3551 2011-02-14 23:48:29 lolicat is now known as user
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3554 2011-02-14 23:50:31 <Animeking> I wonder if running my GPUs at 75 degrees fahrenheit on a day to day basis is bad for it lol
3555 2011-02-14 23:50:56 <USSJoin> Animeking: 75F or 75C? F— I'd be surprised if it was that cool.
3556 2011-02-14 23:51:16 <Animeking> Its a GTX 260 with its fan running at 85%
3557 2011-02-14 23:51:19 <USSJoin> On Puddinpop's rpcminer, I keep getting the error "serialize.h:579: error: ‘get’ was not declared in this scope" when running a "make rpcminer." Any suggestions?
3558 2011-02-14 23:51:25 <USSJoin> Animeking: Still, though.
3559 2011-02-14 23:51:37 <bk128> 75 Fahrenheit is like room temperature.
3560 2011-02-14 23:51:43 <Animeking> GPU usage is 98%
3561 2011-02-14 23:51:50 <Animeking> err
3562 2011-02-14 23:51:51 <Animeking> Celcius
3563 2011-02-14 23:51:55 <bk128> sounds better
3564 2011-02-14 23:51:59 <Animeking> Yeah
3565 2011-02-14 23:52:01 <Animeking> My mistake
3566 2011-02-14 23:52:06 <bk128> :)
3567 2011-02-14 23:52:18 <sipa> 75C should be fine :)
3568 2011-02-14 23:52:22 <Animeking> So how bad is that for the GPU
3569 2011-02-14 23:52:37 <USSJoin> It's prob fine.
3570 2011-02-14 23:52:49 <USSJoin> It's fine for CPUs, certainly.
3571 2011-02-14 23:53:26 <USSJoin> puddinpop: I don't suppose you're around / could help with the "get not declared" issue I mentioned?
3572 2011-02-14 23:53:51 <phantomcircuit> Animeking, my NVS 140M would idle at 75C and max out at 90C, it's been fine for years
3573 2011-02-14 23:54:01 <Animeking> Ah
3574 2011-02-14 23:54:21 <Animeking> My card beats ur card D:
3575 2011-02-14 23:54:25 <phantomcircuit> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3476.0
3576 2011-02-14 23:54:27 <phantomcircuit> lol trolled