1 2011-02-18 00:00:03 <andrew12> well
   2 2011-02-18 00:00:05 <andrew12> i know you can
   3 2011-02-18 00:00:10 <andrew12> it'd be interesting if someone *were to*
   4 2011-02-18 00:00:14 <Necr0s> What I'm thinking is that you could probably have the asics be addressable, and group up a number of them onto a single serial bus, rather than having a dedicated bus for each.
   5 2011-02-18 00:00:20 <Necr0s> To easily expand past 8 asics.
   6 2011-02-18 00:00:25 <ArtForz> errr... no
   7 2011-02-18 00:00:37 <ArtForz> well, at least I dont want to risk it currently
   8 2011-02-18 00:00:59 <andrew12> i wish i could understand half the stuff you guys are talking about
   9 2011-02-18 00:01:01 <ArtForz> I'm using a simple 2-layer backplane, signal integrity somewhere between awful and catastrophic
  10 2011-02-18 00:01:01 <Necr0s> Why is that?  Signalling and termination kind of issues?
  11 2011-02-18 00:01:02 * andrew12 is a software d00d
  12 2011-02-18 00:01:13 <Necr0s> mmm
  13 2011-02-18 00:01:51 <foucist> stupid question: what's the diff between md5 and sha256
  14 2011-02-18 00:02:00 <ArtForz> one is md5, the other sha256.
  15 2011-02-18 00:02:00 <foucist> both hashing processes right? :P
  16 2011-02-18 00:02:06 <Necr0s> sha256 makes m0ar b1tz.
  17 2011-02-18 00:02:12 <foucist> k
  18 2011-02-18 00:02:20 <ArtForz> md5 haz moar fail
  19 2011-02-18 00:02:27 <andrew12> lol...
  20 2011-02-18 00:02:49 <ArtForz> creating md5 block collisions takes like what? 2 minutes now?
  21 2011-02-18 00:03:20 <andrew12> with your rig, sure
  22 2011-02-18 00:03:47 <ArtForz> also, MD5 should be a lot easier to implement in a cheap-ish FPGA
  23 2011-02-18 00:04:29 <ArtForz> less adders
  24 2011-02-18 00:05:34 <Necr0s> I wonder if any of the popular gaming consoles have decent computational power that could be used for mining.
  25 2011-02-18 00:06:05 <Necr0s> wiiMiner, miner 360, PS3 miner...heh.
  26 2011-02-18 00:06:05 <andrew12> cpus: no. gpus, maybe. probably not though.
  27 2011-02-18 00:06:15 <Necr0s> Yeah, I kinda figured.
  28 2011-02-18 00:06:34 <ArtForz> md5 needs 324 2-input 32bit adders for a complete block, sha256 needs 584
  29 2011-02-18 00:06:53 satamusic_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
  30 2011-02-18 00:07:06 <andrew12> heh
  31 2011-02-18 00:08:10 <sipa> ArtForz: are your asics online already?
  32 2011-02-18 00:08:24 <ArtForz> partially
  33 2011-02-18 00:08:35 <Necr0s> You know, I think this is the first thing I have OpenCL widely used for.
  34 2011-02-18 00:08:41 <Necr0s> have seen
  35 2011-02-18 00:09:00 <andrew12> there's also BOINC
  36 2011-02-18 00:09:00 <validus> gpus work great on wpa wordlists
  37 2011-02-18 00:09:03 <ArtForz> got 2 modules = 16 chips working now
  38 2011-02-18 00:09:08 <Necr0s> Or any of those technologies.  DirectCompute and whatboit.
  39 2011-02-18 00:09:10 <Necr0s> whatnot
  40 2011-02-18 00:09:19 <validus> or any wordlist for that matter on checking things
  41 2011-02-18 00:09:32 <sipa> so 3.2GH/s?
  42 2011-02-18 00:10:04 xelister has joined
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  44 2011-02-18 00:10:05 xelister has joined
  45 2011-02-18 00:10:09 Hackbat has joined
  46 2011-02-18 00:10:22 <ArtForz> yea
  47 2011-02-18 00:10:31 <xelister> ArtForz: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=EAH5970&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivns&resnum=1&biw=1920&bih=933&bav=on.1,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=17982219560431692501&ei=HLddTf-YFMWWOqHYiYAL&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAA#  good for mining?
  48 2011-02-18 00:11:19 <ArtForz> a bit expensive, but nice
  49 2011-02-18 00:11:38 <ArtForz> I'll probably try lowering Vcore a bit
  50 2011-02-18 00:12:24 BostX has joined
  51 2011-02-18 00:12:43 <Necr0s> Do any of y'all know if there's a SOAP API or similar to fetch the current trade price from mtgox?
  52 2011-02-18 00:12:48 <sipa> your intent was having 1/6th of the power, right?
  53 2011-02-18 00:12:57 <ArtForz> 1/10
  54 2011-02-18 00:13:06 <citiz3n> what are asics anyways?
  55 2011-02-18 00:13:07 <sipa> oh ok
  56 2011-02-18 00:13:23 <Necr0s> Application Specific Integrated Circuit
  57 2011-02-18 00:13:25 satamusic_ has joined
  58 2011-02-18 00:13:28 <ArtForz> ^...
  59 2011-02-18 00:13:39 <citiz3n> yeah i just googled it
  60 2011-02-18 00:13:50 <citiz3n> are they made as pci-e modules or something?
  61 2011-02-18 00:13:57 <sipa> so together with your gpus you should be able to reach that number
  62 2011-02-18 00:14:04 <sipa> for now
  63 2011-02-18 00:14:20 <Necr0s> I imagine they're usually done up in chip packages.
  64 2011-02-18 00:14:24 <ArtForz> errr... more like half
  65 2011-02-18 00:14:36 <Necr0s> And then it's for you to put them on a PCB.
  66 2011-02-18 00:14:50 <JFK911> http://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php
  67 2011-02-18 00:15:10 <Necr0s> But some producers probably offer services to have your asic come installed on a pcb of your design, I would imagine.
  68 2011-02-18 00:15:12 `Jaka has joined
  69 2011-02-18 00:15:35 <sipa> ArtForz: ?
  70 2011-02-18 00:15:53 <Necr0s> Cool.  Looks like JSON.
  71 2011-02-18 00:15:56 <Necr0s> Thanks.
  72 2011-02-18 00:16:00 <ArtForz> GPUs dont magically use less power
  73 2011-02-18 00:16:15 <sipa> of course...
  74 2011-02-18 00:16:36 <ArtForz> so with the GPUs still running I'll have roughly double hashrate using ~same power
  75 2011-02-18 00:16:52 <citiz3n> what kinda real numbers are you getting from the 5970?
  76 2011-02-18 00:17:28 <ArtForz> 700Mh avg
  77 2011-02-18 00:17:30 <sipa> but your gpus do what, 15GH/s, and the asics 20?
  78 2011-02-18 00:17:34 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  79 2011-02-18 00:17:38 <ArtForz> nope
  80 2011-02-18 00:17:44 <citiz3n> wow, i didn't think they were that efficient
  81 2011-02-18 00:17:48 <citiz3n> but you have a custom miner too, don't you
  82 2011-02-18 00:17:48 <ArtForz> got 28 5970s and 8 5870s running now
  83 2011-02-18 00:17:52 <ArtForz> yea
  84 2011-02-18 00:17:55 <citiz3n> not released to public
  85 2011-02-18 00:17:57 <ArtForz> about 8% less with a cl miner
  86 2011-02-18 00:18:01 <andrew12> https://github.com/drewcrawford/Phone-Pipe - this would be cool if it worked on more than iphone :(
  87 2011-02-18 00:18:06 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  88 2011-02-18 00:18:14 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  89 2011-02-18 00:18:40 <bk128> citiz3n: they're not on pci-e cards.  he made a custom circuit board with a controller for the ASICs.  he's connecting them to his computer with USB
  90 2011-02-18 00:18:55 molecular has quit (zapp!~molecular@e176100087.adsl.alicedsl.de|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  91 2011-02-18 00:19:19 <bk128> ArtForz: ever get sick of all the questions?  We should make you a faq :p  I feel bad bothering you all the time
  92 2011-02-18 00:19:27 <ArtForz> nah
  93 2011-02-18 00:19:29 <citiz3n> hehe
  94 2011-02-18 00:19:40 <midnightmagic> the more people who join, mine, and/or participate, the more his investment is worth.
  95 2011-02-18 00:19:46 molecular has joined
  96 2011-02-18 00:20:09 <midnightmagic> don't feel bad, he's combining both being a courteous person and reinforcement of the currency into one.
  97 2011-02-18 00:20:11 <citiz3n> id be happy to help you mine if you want to send me some of those asics :D
  98 2011-02-18 00:20:16 <ArtForz> my GPUs total ~24.37Gh/s now
  99 2011-02-18 00:20:21 <sipa> oh
 100 2011-02-18 00:20:47 <sipa> and asics will do 20?
 101 2011-02-18 00:20:51 <ArtForz> yea
 102 2011-02-18 00:20:52 <sipa> for now
 103 2011-02-18 00:21:27 <sipa> ok, that means almost 15% of the network
 104 2011-02-18 00:21:27 <midnightmagic> you build a strong community, and the community's strength is what gives the currency its stability and thus its worth.
 105 2011-02-18 00:21:35 <bitcoiner> u dont have a electricity black out
 106 2011-02-18 00:21:51 akem has joined
 107 2011-02-18 00:21:51 akem has quit (Changing host)
 108 2011-02-18 00:21:51 akem has joined
 109 2011-02-18 00:22:14 <Necr0s> How do you get 24ghps from 28 5970 + 8 5870?
 110 2011-02-18 00:22:17 <Necr0s> OC?
 111 2011-02-18 00:22:20 <ArtForz> 28x5970, 8x5870, 5x5770, 1x6870, 1x6970
 112 2011-02-18 00:22:28 <ArtForz> everything OCed
 113 2011-02-18 00:22:35 <Necr0s> I would expect to see more around 17ghps
 114 2011-02-18 00:22:38 <Necr0s> ...i see.
 115 2011-02-18 00:22:58 <bk128> all air cooled with stock coolers?
 116 2011-02-18 00:23:03 <ArtForz> yep
 117 2011-02-18 00:23:12 <Necr0s> Are you prepared for the heat of summer?
 118 2011-02-18 00:23:13 <ArtForz> well, except for the 5770s
 119 2011-02-18 00:23:19 <ArtForz> yep
 120 2011-02-18 00:23:28 <bk128> your custom enclosures with the fans get much better airflow I bet
 121 2011-02-18 00:23:33 <midnightmagic> at current market prices, that's..  hrm...  $394200.00/year. :)
 122 2011-02-18 00:23:49 <Necr0s> :chomp:
 123 2011-02-18 00:24:42 <midnightmagic> ..  course, only if difficulty stays the same. :)
 124 2011-02-18 00:24:45 <ArtForz> 4*5970s sit at ~77°C at 40% fanspeed and 21°C ambient
 125 2011-02-18 00:25:07 <phantomcircuit> fully 1/4th of the total money supply of bitcoins is already in existence
 126 2011-02-18 00:25:17 <ArtForz> actually at exactly 77°C, with fanspeed between 34 and 40%
 127 2011-02-18 00:25:19 <Necr0s> gold rush
 128 2011-02-18 00:25:40 <phantomcircuit> at current market prices that's ~ 5.5 million USD
 129 2011-02-18 00:25:44 <phantomcircuit> which seems uh
 130 2011-02-18 00:25:45 <phantomcircuit> off
 131 2011-02-18 00:25:49 <ArtForz> shouldnt get problems up to 35°C ambient or so
 132 2011-02-18 00:25:55 <midnightmagic> it doesn't share much in common with, for example, the klondike gold reush. almost nothing, actually.
 133 2011-02-18 00:26:02 <bk128> ArtForz: yeah, but they're in a wind tunnel
 134 2011-02-18 00:26:07 <ArtForz> yea
 135 2011-02-18 00:26:20 <ArtForz> thats generally how you cool things
 136 2011-02-18 00:26:26 <bk128> :)
 137 2011-02-18 00:26:42 <bk128> why'd you use those 80 mm instead of blower fans? lot cheaper?
 138 2011-02-18 00:26:46 <ArtForz> "just blow air into the box and hope for the best" is pretty much only found in PCs
 139 2011-02-18 00:26:52 <ArtForz> yeah
 140 2011-02-18 00:27:01 <foucist> hey guys, when MHash/s is mentioned, how many bits are we talking about? per hash
 141 2011-02-18 00:27:05 <ArtForz> and 80mm fits nicely into 2U
 142 2011-02-18 00:27:10 <foucist> how many bits in a hash?
 143 2011-02-18 00:27:11 <foucist> for this
 144 2011-02-18 00:27:53 <bk128> just constant 12v? it was these right? http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1508657-fan-dc-axial-12v-80x38-9000rpm-qfr0812de-f00.html
 145 2011-02-18 00:28:21 <ArtForz> yeah
 146 2011-02-18 00:28:27 <ArtForz> they have a PWM input...
 147 2011-02-18 00:28:43 <bk128> don't use it though?
 148 2011-02-18 00:28:46 <ArtForz> sure do
 149 2011-02-18 00:28:58 chromicant has quit (Quit: Bye)
 150 2011-02-18 00:29:09 <ArtForz> controlled from a small AVR
 151 2011-02-18 00:29:25 <bk128> what going into the avr?
 152 2011-02-18 00:29:27 engla has joined
 153 2011-02-18 00:29:42 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r5a3e82f / net.cpp : Set maxconnections default to 125 - http://bit.ly/gnmYE0
 154 2011-02-18 00:29:47 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r9cbae55 / net.cpp :
 155 2011-02-18 00:29:47 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Denial-of-service flood control
 156 2011-02-18 00:29:47 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Drop connections that are either sending messages too fast to handle or are processing messages so slowly data starts to back up.
 157 2011-02-18 00:29:47 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Adds two new options:
 158 2011-02-18 00:29:48 <CIA-57> bitcoin:  -maxreceivebuffer Default: 2000 (2000*1000 bytes)
 159 2011-02-18 00:29:48 <CIA-57> bitcoin:  -maxsendbuffer Default: 256 (256*1000 bytes) - http://bit.ly/ekbJbf
 160 2011-02-18 00:29:50 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r930a07c / serialize.h : Bump version to 0.3.20.01 - http://bit.ly/eoqWXf
 161 2011-02-18 00:29:50 <ArtForz> 4 thermistors
 162 2011-02-18 00:29:54 satamusic_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 163 2011-02-18 00:30:06 <ArtForz> errr.. thermal diodes
 164 2011-02-18 00:30:09 echelon has joined
 165 2011-02-18 00:30:16 <foucist> i guess the answer is 256 bits in a hash?
 166 2011-02-18 00:30:39 <ArtForz> foucist: thats not really a answerable question
 167 2011-02-18 00:30:41 satamusic_ has joined
 168 2011-02-18 00:30:45 <sipa> foucist: for bitcoin one needs to do two rounds of sha256
 169 2011-02-18 00:30:45 <gavinandresen> foucist:  yes, hash calculation is a double SHA256 on the block header that gives a 256-bit hash.
 170 2011-02-18 00:31:08 <sipa> each round consumes 512 bits
 171 2011-02-18 00:31:14 <ArtForz> yep
 172 2011-02-18 00:31:22 <foucist> well i'm just trying to translate a "bits per second" value into MHash/s
 173 2011-02-18 00:31:25 <foucist> ok
 174 2011-02-18 00:31:27 <bk128> ArtForz: taped to the gpu heatsinks close to the die?    do you just adjust to the highest temp?
 175 2011-02-18 00:31:34 <xelister> ArtForz: lowering voltage? why so
 176 2011-02-18 00:31:39 <ArtForz> bk128: yes and yes
 177 2011-02-18 00:31:46 <sipa> so it corresponds to continuous hashing of 1024 bits per bitcoin hash
 178 2011-02-18 00:31:57 <ArtForz> xelister: want to increase efficiency some more
 179 2011-02-18 00:31:59 <bk128> what's the advantage of thermal diodes over thermistors?
 180 2011-02-18 00:32:02 <foucist> sipa: ok thanks
 181 2011-02-18 00:32:09 <xelister> ArtForz: you're talking about the card I url'ed?
 182 2011-02-18 00:32:13 <sipa> approximately though
 183 2011-02-18 00:32:17 <ArtForz> no
 184 2011-02-18 00:32:24 <ArtForz> my ASICs
 185 2011-02-18 00:32:35 molecular has joined
 186 2011-02-18 00:32:39 <sipa> miners do all kinds of bitcoin specific optimizations
 187 2011-02-18 00:32:54 <foucist> sipa: do you know how md5 might differ from that?, like md5 password hash  (like here http://whitepixel.zorinaq.com/)
 188 2011-02-18 00:32:54 <ArtForz> which gain about 10% total
 189 2011-02-18 00:33:03 <foucist> i'm wondering how to translate that into bits/second
 190 2011-02-18 00:33:18 <sipa> foucist: hard to compare md5 with sha256
 191 2011-02-18 00:33:23 <ArtForz> yeah
 192 2011-02-18 00:33:31 <sipa> depends on the hardware
 193 2011-02-18 00:33:43 <sipa> what the factor between them is
 194 2011-02-18 00:33:47 <Necr0s> Well, each bitcoin hash that gets computed is 512 bits long, I believe.
 195 2011-02-18 00:33:55 <sipa> twice
 196 2011-02-18 00:33:57 <ArtForz> the hash is 256 bits
 197 2011-02-18 00:34:02 <sipa> so 1024 bits
 198 2011-02-18 00:34:03 <Necr0s> So I guess you could multiply hps by 512 to get a kind of "bits ber second".
 199 2011-02-18 00:34:04 <ArtForz> input data is 512 bits, *2
 200 2011-02-18 00:34:13 <foucist> sipa: yeah i'm just trying to figure out how to translate a value for md5 bits/sec into an equivalent hashrate for bitcoins
 201 2011-02-18 00:34:16 <ArtForz> hps * 1024 actually
 202 2011-02-18 00:34:20 <ArtForz> good luck
 203 2011-02-18 00:34:26 <ArtForz> md5 is pretty different
 204 2011-02-18 00:34:44 <phantomcircuit> you dont even need to brute force md5
 205 2011-02-18 00:34:49 <foucist> ArtForz: yeah but i can compare the known rate of md5 hashing for 5970 :P
 206 2011-02-18 00:34:51 <phantomcircuit> the algorithm is entirely 100% broken
 207 2011-02-18 00:34:54 <sipa> 1MHash/s in bitcoin = 1Gbit/s of continous sha256 hashing
 208 2011-02-18 00:35:02 <foucist> phantomcircuit: oh i see
 209 2011-02-18 00:35:10 <Necr0s> bits per second, kind of sounds like a measure of speed when a very long stream of data is used as the input to the hash function.
 210 2011-02-18 00:35:16 <ArtForz> it is
 211 2011-02-18 00:35:23 <sipa> Necr0s: exactly
 212 2011-02-18 00:35:33 <ArtForz> also explains why normal crypto accelerators arent really usful
 213 2011-02-18 00:35:57 <phantomcircuit> people have tried crypto accelerators other than pad lock?
 214 2011-02-18 00:36:12 <ArtForz> no clue, probably
 215 2011-02-18 00:36:14 <jgarzik> whee.  pyminer is up to 256 Khash/sec/thread
 216 2011-02-18 00:36:23 <jgarzik> http://yyz.us/bitcoin/pyminer.py
 217 2011-02-18 00:36:29 <ArtForz> nobody needs a sha256 engine capable of north of 100Gbit/s
 218 2011-02-18 00:36:47 <Necr0s> I should write AS3miner.
 219 2011-02-18 00:36:56 <sipa> another difference
 220 2011-02-18 00:37:04 <Necr0s> Embed it in a swf and use ppl's browser machines to mine.
 221 2011-02-18 00:37:09 <Necr0s> on the sly.
 222 2011-02-18 00:37:10 <sipa> it is not one long data stream
 223 2011-02-18 00:37:13 <xelister> Necr0s: on cpu?
 224 2011-02-18 00:37:20 <Necr0s> gpu if possible.
 225 2011-02-18 00:37:24 <Necr0s> It's pribably not tho.
 226 2011-02-18 00:37:27 <sipa> but many simultaneous ones
 227 2011-02-18 00:37:30 <xelister> Necr0s: flash doesnt do OpenCL
 228 2011-02-18 00:37:31 <ArtForz> yep
 229 2011-02-18 00:37:50 <sipa> which nobody is interested in, except for cracking things
 230 2011-02-18 00:37:55 <Necr0s> Yeah, I kinda thought that it would not.
 231 2011-02-18 00:37:55 <ArtForz> and we dont really give a rats ass about latency
 232 2011-02-18 00:38:05 <jgarzik> normal crypto accelerators aren't useful because it's tough to deal with the latency of offloading those operations from GPU to [somewhere across a random PCI/USB bus], and then getting back the results.
 233 2011-02-18 00:38:11 <jgarzik> yeah
 234 2011-02-18 00:38:23 <jgarzik> er, s/GPU/CPU/
 235 2011-02-18 00:38:59 <foucist> ArtForz: nobody except us?
 236 2011-02-18 00:39:09 <phantomcircuit> oh
 237 2011-02-18 00:39:12 <foucist> we want 100Gbit/s right? :P
 238 2011-02-18 00:39:28 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, lol no wonder padlock isn't very fast, the sha256 operations are just wrappers for sse
 239 2011-02-18 00:39:38 <ArtForz> huh?
 240 2011-02-18 00:39:39 <sipa> foucist: more
 241 2011-02-18 00:39:47 <ArtForz> errr... no
 242 2011-02-18 00:39:51 <ArtForz> yeah
 243 2011-02-18 00:40:08 <ArtForz> north of 500Gbit/s would be nice
 244 2011-02-18 00:41:34 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 4500
 245 2011-02-18 00:41:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4500 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 41 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 43 seconds
 246 2011-02-18 00:41:38 <phantomcircuit> ;;guide
 247 2011-02-18 00:41:39 <gribble> Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
 248 2011-02-18 00:41:42 <phantomcircuit> ;;help
 249 2011-02-18 00:41:43 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
 250 2011-02-18 00:41:48 <jgarzik> ;;bc,calc 250
 251 2011-02-18 00:41:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 250 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 14 years, 8 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes, and 56 seconds
 252 2011-02-18 00:41:50 <jgarzik> ;;bc,calc 250 1
 253 2011-02-18 00:41:51 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
 254 2011-02-18 00:42:05 <jgarzik> ;;bc,gend 250 1
 255 2011-02-18 00:42:05 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 250 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 251.457095146 BTC per day and 10.4773789644 BTC per hour.
 256 2011-02-18 00:42:09 <sipa> calcd
 257 2011-02-18 00:42:25 <engla> Hi there, as someone just checking this out again, does anyone have an analysis of the recent price jump?
 258 2011-02-18 00:42:52 <citiz3n> art, did you see i sent a query?
 259 2011-02-18 00:42:58 <molecular> phantomcircuit, the sha256 padlock is not just wrapper
 260 2011-02-18 00:43:27 <phantomcircuit> molecular, the VIA programming guide clearly states that the sha256 ops make use of sse
 261 2011-02-18 00:43:29 Diablo-D3 has joined
 262 2011-02-18 00:43:53 <molecular> phantomcircuit, "make use of" != "be wrapper to"
 263 2011-02-18 00:43:54 mmarker has joined
 264 2011-02-18 00:44:14 <phantomcircuit> molecular, a wrapper often transforms
 265 2011-02-18 00:44:17 <phantomcircuit> but whatever
 266 2011-02-18 00:44:21 <ArtForz> errr... no
 267 2011-02-18 00:44:26 <ArtForz> the padlock stuff uses sse registers to keep state
 268 2011-02-18 00:44:39 <molecular> ArtForz, do you have "errr... no" on a shortcut-key?
 269 2011-02-18 00:44:46 <ArtForz> errr.. no
 270 2011-02-18 00:44:49 <molecular> lol
 271 2011-02-18 00:44:50 BostX has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 272 2011-02-18 00:44:54 <sipa> lol
 273 2011-02-18 00:45:00 <midnightmagic> that was F7 nstead of F6
 274 2011-02-18 00:45:02 <andrew12> huh
 275 2011-02-18 00:45:07 <andrew12> DSS1 and SHA1 are the same
 276 2011-02-18 00:45:18 <sipa> i have a shortcut for this though
 277 2011-02-18 00:45:24 <sipa> Your powers of observation continue to serve you well
 278 2011-02-18 00:45:28 <mmarker> Heh
 279 2011-02-18 00:45:29 engla has left ()
 280 2011-02-18 00:45:33 <mmarker> I'm old school
 281 2011-02-18 00:45:44 <mmarker> you really that stupid?
 282 2011-02-18 00:46:11 <mmarker> With my high frequency of typos. Hilarity usually ensues.
 283 2011-02-18 00:46:50 <andrew12> s/\. H/, h/
 284 2011-02-18 00:46:50 <mmarker> and I just found another potential miner in my desk drawer. Anyone remember the Blackdog?
 285 2011-02-18 00:47:01 <doublec> yep, I have one too
 286 2011-02-18 00:47:03 <Diablo-D3> no?
 287 2011-02-18 00:47:04 hozer has joined
 288 2011-02-18 00:47:22 <mmarker> Just found mine, and it looks to still boot
 289 2011-02-18 00:47:26 <mmarker> which is creepy
 290 2011-02-18 00:47:30 <hozer> okay, I have the diablominer git
 291 2011-02-18 00:47:43 <hozer> now how do I get a .jar or whatever it is the shell scrip needs ;)(
 292 2011-02-18 00:47:55 <mmarker> hozer: from git? mvn package
 293 2011-02-18 00:48:15 <mmarker> course, I still loathe maven, but mostly because I don't understand it
 294 2011-02-18 00:48:27 <hozer> what the hell is maven
 295 2011-02-18 00:48:36 <hozer> can't anyone just use 'make' ;)
 296 2011-02-18 00:48:46 ducki2p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 297 2011-02-18 00:49:03 <Diablo-D3> hozer: make on a java app? lol.
 298 2011-02-18 00:49:04 Lube has joined
 299 2011-02-18 00:49:06 <mmarker> Oh man, you've never used maven then
 300 2011-02-18 00:49:07 Hackbat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 301 2011-02-18 00:49:13 <mmarker> It downloads TONS of crap
 302 2011-02-18 00:49:14 <Diablo-D3> hozer: think of maven has make without 20 years of faggotry tacked on
 303 2011-02-18 00:49:25 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: not even.
 304 2011-02-18 00:49:28 <hozer> hehehh
 305 2011-02-18 00:49:28 <mmarker> Or 20 years of hipster ignorance added to it
 306 2011-02-18 00:49:30 <mmarker> your call
 307 2011-02-18 00:49:36 <Diablo-D3> it downloads stuff you need to compile the app for
 308 2011-02-18 00:49:40 <Diablo-D3> s/for/with/
 309 2011-02-18 00:49:49 <Diablo-D3> hozer: install maven, run mvn package
 310 2011-02-18 00:50:10 <hozer> dammit, I've been downloading for the last 2 hours ;)
 311 2011-02-18 00:50:15 <mmarker> I usually have a problem where I try to outsmart maven. "USE THIS JAR I JUST BUILT FOOL...NOOO...DONT DOWNLOAD THAT...."
 312 2011-02-18 00:50:19 <doublec> you might have trouble getting bitcoin running on the blackdog - it's big endian iirc
 313 2011-02-18 00:50:40 <sipa> what is blackdog?
 314 2011-02-18 00:50:40 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: erm, thats very easy to do
 315 2011-02-18 00:50:42 <mmarker> doublec: Yea, but just a miner.
 316 2011-02-18 00:50:51 <mmarker> sipa: A solution looking for a problem.
 317 2011-02-18 00:50:57 <doublec> sipa: a portable usb server
 318 2011-02-18 00:51:05 <doublec> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2005/11/blackdog.html
 319 2011-02-18 00:51:09 <mmarker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackDog
 320 2011-02-18 00:51:18 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: if the jar you built uses maven, you usually do mvn deploy
 321 2011-02-18 00:51:31 <bk128> ArtForz: where do you buy solder paste and stuff from?
 322 2011-02-18 00:51:33 <mmarker> But some of mine don't
 323 2011-02-18 00:51:36 <bk128> and standard stencils
 324 2011-02-18 00:51:44 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: yes, and thats broken. they REALLY should use maven.
 325 2011-02-18 00:51:48 <Diablo-D3> ant is dead.
 326 2011-02-18 00:52:11 <mmarker> No, this is my home grown hacked together throw-it-all-into-a-shell script code
 327 2011-02-18 00:52:21 <mmarker> Look. I programmed this:
 328 2011-02-18 00:52:21 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: dude, just use maven.
 329 2011-02-18 00:52:23 <Diablo-D3> its easy.
 330 2011-02-18 00:53:00 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r244 /trunk/net.cpp: Set maxconnections default to 125
 331 2011-02-18 00:53:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r245 /trunk/net.cpp:
 332 2011-02-18 00:53:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: Denial-of-service flood control
 333 2011-02-18 00:53:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: Drop connections that are either sending messages too fast to handle or are processing messages so slowly data starts to back up.
 334 2011-02-18 00:53:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: Adds two new options:
 335 2011-02-18 00:53:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin:  -maxreceivebuffer Default: 2000 (2000*1000 bytes)
 336 2011-02-18 00:53:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin:  -maxsendbuffer Default: 256 (256*1000 bytes)
 337 2011-02-18 00:53:03 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r246 /trunk/serialize.h: Bump version to 0.3.20.01
 338 2011-02-18 00:53:29 sabalaba has joined
 339 2011-02-18 00:53:54 kryptonite7491 has joined
 340 2011-02-18 00:54:27 Necr0s1 has joined
 341 2011-02-18 00:56:20 <mmarker> http://web.archive.org/web/20010514014605/www.xs4all.nl/~cg/ciphersaber/comp/fortran77.txt
 342 2011-02-18 00:56:25 <mmarker> Damn, that took a while to find
 343 2011-02-18 00:56:33 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 344 2011-02-18 00:56:54 <mmarker> That is the mentality you're dealing with here... :D
 345 2011-02-18 00:57:11 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 346 2011-02-18 00:57:18 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
 347 2011-02-18 00:57:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.0502,"low":1.02,"vol":4022,"buy":1.031,"sell":1.04,"last":1.0395}}
 348 2011-02-18 00:57:45 <Diablo-D3> ... its fortran.
 349 2011-02-18 00:57:57 <mmarker> I'm old and cranky.
 350 2011-02-18 00:58:10 <mmarker> I think I was drunk when I wrote that.
 351 2011-02-18 00:58:20 <mmarker> The fact I don't remember writing it probably means I was.
 352 2011-02-18 00:58:28 <hozer> okay... what's up with this..
 353 2011-02-18 00:58:44 <hozer> hozer@minbar poclbm$ ./poclbm.py
 354 2011-02-18 00:58:45 <hozer> Traceback (most recent call last):
 355 2011-02-18 00:58:45 <hozer>   File "./poclbm.py", line 5, in <module>
 356 2011-02-18 00:58:45 <hozer>     from BitcoinMiner import *
 357 2011-02-18 00:58:45 <hozer>   File "/home/hozer/poclbm/BitcoinMiner.py", line 277
 358 2011-02-18 00:58:45 <hozer>     except Exception as e:
 359 2011-02-18 00:58:45 <hozer>                       ^
 360 2011-02-18 00:58:46 <hozer> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 361 2011-02-18 00:59:02 <mmarker> what version of python?
 362 2011-02-18 00:59:14 <hozer> 2.5.2
 363 2011-02-18 00:59:15 <foucist> the stream processors are mostly being used for the ALU operations right?
 364 2011-02-18 00:59:34 <foucist> how many alu operations /s to do 1Mhash/s ?
 365 2011-02-18 00:59:55 <mmarker> Ok, back to setting up a toolchain
 366 2011-02-18 01:00:02 <Diablo-D3> hozer: erm, you should be on 2.6
 367 2011-02-18 01:00:49 <hozer> well, I'll update that as soon as the 100MB of stuff for maven gets done ;)
 368 2011-02-18 01:01:18 * hozer needs to make a local debian mirror for times like these
 369 2011-02-18 01:02:33 <hozer> dangit, and of course I run out of disk in the middle of this too :P
 370 2011-02-18 01:03:01 <hozer> I mean really, 6G should be plenty for /
 371 2011-02-18 01:04:31 <phantomcircuit> new debian release is like 12G
 372 2011-02-18 01:04:52 <hozer> damn feature bloat :)
 373 2011-02-18 01:05:04 <sipa> not for a base install i hope
 374 2011-02-18 01:05:24 <mmarker> base install is probably still teeny tiny
 375 2011-02-18 01:05:32 <mmarker> as in "you get bash and a getty"
 376 2011-02-18 01:05:47 <Diablo-D3> erm
 377 2011-02-18 01:05:54 <Diablo-D3> you do realize no one has ever installed the entire release, right?
 378 2011-02-18 01:05:58 <Diablo-D3> you install what you want
 379 2011-02-18 01:06:08 <sipa> actually, you even can't
 380 2011-02-18 01:06:11 <Diablo-D3> 12G == every package in the repo
 381 2011-02-18 01:06:12 <sipa> there are conflicting packages
 382 2011-02-18 01:06:14 <Diablo-D3> sipa: yeah, conflicts
 383 2011-02-18 01:06:30 <sipa> only 12G for the whole repository? :D
 384 2011-02-18 01:06:42 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the base gnome install including all the cached .debs is ridiculously huge
 385 2011-02-18 01:06:45 <Diablo-D3> sipa: yeah its small
 386 2011-02-18 01:06:48 <midnightmagic> i install minimal server system, takes about five minutes, i get a 12-second power-up->prompt, and then apt-get just that crap I need for that system. very handy, nice and quick. lot like netbsd.
 387 2011-02-18 01:06:51 <sipa> somehow i expected it to be larger by now
 388 2011-02-18 01:07:04 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, cutting it down is easy though
 389 2011-02-18 01:07:09 <Diablo-D3> minimal install is like 150 megs or some shit
 390 2011-02-18 01:07:12 <Diablo-D3> alpine is still smaller
 391 2011-02-18 01:07:28 <phantomcircuit> which is why i said base gnome install
 392 2011-02-18 01:07:31 * mmarker kicks the local network
 393 2011-02-18 01:07:47 <Diablo-D3> who installs gnome though?
 394 2011-02-18 01:07:55 <midnightmagic> netbsd is smallest and fits on 2 floppies still.
 395 2011-02-18 01:07:58 <midnightmagic> :-P
 396 2011-02-18 01:07:58 <Diablo-D3> kind of seems pointless to install debian and then fag it up
 397 2011-02-18 01:08:26 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 398 2011-02-18 01:08:32 Necr0s has joined
 399 2011-02-18 01:08:39 johnyh has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 400 2011-02-18 01:09:16 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 401 2011-02-18 01:09:26 <phantomcircuit> all you need is lynx
 402 2011-02-18 01:09:37 <phantomcircuit> like a real uh man?
 403 2011-02-18 01:09:39 bk128 has joined
 404 2011-02-18 01:09:40 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
 405 2011-02-18 01:09:40 bk128 has joined
 406 2011-02-18 01:09:47 Necr0s1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 407 2011-02-18 01:09:51 <Diablo-D3> xfce4 is tiny compared to gnome2
 408 2011-02-18 01:09:52 <Diablo-D3> and does more
 409 2011-02-18 01:10:35 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 410 2011-02-18 01:10:37 <midnightmagic> dwm is tiniest!
 411 2011-02-18 01:11:05 <Diablo-D3> your dick is tiniest, stfu.
 412 2011-02-18 01:11:16 <midnightmagic> my dwm works at usable speeds even while miners have eaten up my display adapter!
 413 2011-02-18 01:11:20 ntosme2 has joined
 414 2011-02-18 01:12:12 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: menus are for pussies!
 415 2011-02-18 01:12:22 ousado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 416 2011-02-18 01:13:27 <hozer> df
 417 2011-02-18 01:13:36 <hozer> whoops
 418 2011-02-18 01:13:40 <mmarker> Tiny. Here's a copy of RTEMS.
 419 2011-02-18 01:14:21 johnyh has joined
 420 2011-02-18 01:16:30 Lube has quit ()
 421 2011-02-18 01:21:16 <hozer> cute.. hozer@minbar poclbm$ python2.6 poclbm.py
 422 2011-02-18 01:21:16 <hozer> Segmentation fault
 423 2011-02-18 01:24:46 <mmarker> grrr
 424 2011-02-18 01:24:53 * mmarker beats on this stupid toolchain
 425 2011-02-18 01:26:39 grondilu has joined
 426 2011-02-18 01:27:50 <hozer> dammit, my opencll is busted
 427 2011-02-18 01:27:51 <grondilu> I've tried "telnet SOME_IP 8333" to check a node, and now I can't kill the telnet session.  Ctrl-C doesn't work.  pkill telnet either.   What to do?
 428 2011-02-18 01:28:38 <midnightmagic> Control-], then quit
 429 2011-02-18 01:29:49 <grondilu> too late, I've sent a SIGKILL message from htop.  I'll try Ctrl-] quit next time, thks.
 430 2011-02-18 01:30:00 grondilu has quit (Client Quit)
 431 2011-02-18 01:31:28 Mango-chan has joined
 432 2011-02-18 01:31:29 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
 433 2011-02-18 01:31:29 Mango-chan has joined
 434 2011-02-18 01:32:05 <mmarker> I am about to scream
 435 2011-02-18 01:35:16 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 436 2011-02-18 01:35:30 <mmarker> I need more beer for this. This is becoming painful.
 437 2011-02-18 01:43:21 grondilu has joined
 438 2011-02-18 01:44:22 molecular has quit (zapp!~molecular@e176104187.adsl.alicedsl.de|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 439 2011-02-18 01:44:33 <grondilu> damn it I can't get any connections even if I add a whole bunch of fallback nodes.
 440 2011-02-18 01:45:10 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
 441 2011-02-18 01:46:38 ousado has joined
 442 2011-02-18 01:46:49 ousado has quit (Changing host)
 443 2011-02-18 01:46:49 ousado has joined
 444 2011-02-18 01:47:01 <Kiba> mmarker: what's so painful?
 445 2011-02-18 01:47:36 <mmarker> Trying to set up the DSP on a TI DaVinci processor
 446 2011-02-18 01:47:45 <mmarker> it's a LOT of crappy little files and drivers
 447 2011-02-18 01:49:07 <grondilu> should I run "bitcoind -add=IP1 -add=IP2 ..." or "bitcoind -add=IP1,IP2,..."  ?
 448 2011-02-18 01:49:57 sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 449 2011-02-18 01:50:34 <mmarker> Ok, let's see if the new driver works. Reboot the machine
 450 2011-02-18 01:50:49 <mmarker> and we wait
 451 2011-02-18 01:52:03 <mmarker> Whoops. Forgot the embedded box serves DNS
 452 2011-02-18 01:52:09 <mmarker> Hope it comes back ;(
 453 2011-02-18 01:52:18 <mmarker> Crap.
 454 2011-02-18 01:52:42 sshc has joined
 455 2011-02-18 01:54:44 gasteve has joined
 456 2011-02-18 01:55:32 Hackbat has joined
 457 2011-02-18 02:00:21 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 458 2011-02-18 02:05:13 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
 459 2011-02-18 02:09:45 Cusipzzz has joined
 460 2011-02-18 02:10:24 satamusic_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 461 2011-02-18 02:11:07 satamusic_ has joined
 462 2011-02-18 02:17:48 satamusic_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 463 2011-02-18 02:18:10 brunner has joined
 464 2011-02-18 02:18:31 satamusic_ has joined
 465 2011-02-18 02:20:52 <Lachesis> is 85.5C too hot for a 5870?
 466 2011-02-18 02:20:59 <JFK911> Ow
 467 2011-02-18 02:21:22 <JFK911> depends if its in warranty i guess :)
 468 2011-02-18 02:21:34 <Lachesis> JFK911, lol
 469 2011-02-18 02:22:44 <Diablo-D3> Lachesis: eeeh
 470 2011-02-18 02:22:47 <Diablo-D3> I dont like past 80c
 471 2011-02-18 02:22:55 <Diablo-D3> and 85c implies the vrms are 120c
 472 2011-02-18 02:22:59 <Diablo-D3> which is bad
 473 2011-02-18 02:24:47 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 474 2011-02-18 02:27:15 <luke-jr> someone generate a block plz kthx
 475 2011-02-18 02:27:36 <JFK911> How old is this one?
 476 2011-02-18 02:29:09 <andrew12> 10 mins
 477 2011-02-18 02:29:15 <andrew12> 12, actually
 478 2011-02-18 02:30:38 <bk128> Lachesis: mine's at 85, but I haven't built a custom case yet.  if you look at the ati catalyst panel, it doesn't put 85 c in the red, it's more in the middle
 479 2011-02-18 02:30:52 <bk128> shouldnt void the warranty, but will decrease the life of the card
 480 2011-02-18 02:32:11 <bk128> Diablo-D3: vrms = videoram??
 481 2011-02-18 02:32:18 <Diablo-D3> no
 482 2011-02-18 02:32:23 <Diablo-D3> voltage regulator module
 483 2011-02-18 02:32:34 <bk128> ah
 484 2011-02-18 02:33:02 <bk128> bucking 12v down to 1.2 @ how many amps
 485 2011-02-18 02:33:13 <bk128> how efficient are those?
 486 2011-02-18 02:33:24 Jerico_ has joined
 487 2011-02-18 02:33:38 Jerico_ has quit (Client Quit)
 488 2011-02-18 02:34:06 <foucist> Diablo-D3: which is better, xfx or sapphire? :P
 489 2011-02-18 02:34:12 <bk128> sapphire!
 490 2011-02-18 02:34:22 <luke-jr> who runs http://productiveestates.com/ ?
 491 2011-02-18 02:34:25 <bk128> but I did just buy 2 xfx cards.  haven't opened them yet
 492 2011-02-18 02:34:51 <bk128> foucist: Diablo-D3 recommends asus, msi, sapphire, and gigabyte I think
 493 2011-02-18 02:34:58 ZenMondo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 494 2011-02-18 02:35:35 <foucist> oh?
 495 2011-02-18 02:35:53 * luke-jr has Gigabyte
 496 2011-02-18 02:36:03 <foucist> bk128: cool thanks
 497 2011-02-18 02:36:45 <foucist> oh i got it mixed up
 498 2011-02-18 02:36:48 <foucist> which is better, xfx or diamond
 499 2011-02-18 02:36:59 <bk128> I dont think either of those are highly recommended
 500 2011-02-18 02:37:03 Hackbat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 501 2011-02-18 02:37:42 <foucist> yeah but if you had to choose? :P
 502 2011-02-18 02:38:42 <bk128> I don't have experience with either but xfx gets bashed the most in here
 503 2011-02-18 02:38:52 <bk128> wait and ask someone though
 504 2011-02-18 02:39:35 citiz3n has quit ()
 505 2011-02-18 02:44:51 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 506 2011-02-18 02:44:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108836 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 27 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 57 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36273.28265936
 507 2011-02-18 02:45:11 <afed> three hours
 508 2011-02-18 02:46:34 ZenMondo has joined
 509 2011-02-18 02:48:08 <Lachesis> i need to RMA one of my cards
 510 2011-02-18 02:48:14 <Lachesis> dual card setup wasn't wokring
 511 2011-02-18 02:48:18 <Lachesis> so i tried running with just that card
 512 2011-02-18 02:48:23 <Lachesis> and it gave crazy test patterns and junk
 513 2011-02-18 02:48:39 <Lachesis> and refused to even run the ubuntu desktop for more than 5 minutes before it locked up
 514 2011-02-18 02:48:40 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 515 2011-02-18 02:49:01 <Lachesis> anyone think i can push my 5870 much higher than 850MHz?
 516 2011-02-18 02:50:57 ducki2p has joined
 517 2011-02-18 02:52:02 <da2ce7> Well I'm going to be offilne for a couple of days... make sure you pledge https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0  bitcoin on freenet project. :) we are looking to hire developers :)
 518 2011-02-18 03:00:42 bitcoiner has joined
 519 2011-02-18 03:00:59 <bk128> Lachesis: not if it's already at 85c.  you need to build a custom case w/ better fans
 520 2011-02-18 03:01:35 citizen has joined
 521 2011-02-18 03:01:35 citizen has quit (Changing host)
 522 2011-02-18 03:01:35 citizen has joined
 523 2011-02-18 03:03:42 <Lachesis> bk128, no, i ran it cool
 524 2011-02-18 03:03:47 <Lachesis> even idling it failed
 525 2011-02-18 03:04:09 <Lachesis> has anyone tried the 69xx cards?
 526 2011-02-18 03:04:12 <Lachesis> like the 6950?
 527 2011-02-18 03:04:47 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 528 2011-02-18 03:05:04 <bitcoiner> is it normal my new card corner sticker were already curled up ?
 529 2011-02-18 03:05:48 Cusipzzz has joined
 530 2011-02-18 03:06:58 <bk128> 6970 supposedly has similar performance to the 5970
 531 2011-02-18 03:08:16 da2ce7 has quit ()
 532 2011-02-18 03:08:17 <bk128> for hashing
 533 2011-02-18 03:10:27 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 534 2011-02-18 03:11:56 <hozer> wheee, I'm quite happy with the MSI 5770 I just installed
 535 2011-02-18 03:12:21 <hozer> running at 52C @900mhz and 163 Mhash/sec
 536 2011-02-18 03:15:07 <bitcoiner> how much u paid hozer
 537 2011-02-18 03:23:24 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 538 2011-02-18 03:23:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108846 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 17 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 51 minutes, and 55 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36339.26812139
 539 2011-02-18 03:28:06 octarine1 has joined
 540 2011-02-18 03:29:35 johnyh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 541 2011-02-18 03:30:49 octarine has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 542 2011-02-18 03:32:05 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 543 2011-02-18 03:32:11 <ntosme2> so what happens to the currency that gets lost when the wallet file gets corrupted/deleted without a backup?
 544 2011-02-18 03:32:14 <ntosme2> poof?
 545 2011-02-18 03:32:44 <doublec> yep
 546 2011-02-18 03:32:48 <doublec> gone for good
 547 2011-02-18 03:33:36 johnyh has joined
 548 2011-02-18 03:34:31 <ntosme2> that seems like a bad solution, but I guess it just results in gradual deflation
 549 2011-02-18 03:35:30 ousado_ has joined
 550 2011-02-18 03:38:10 <JFK911> Nobody knows whether someone is holding the coins or whether they are lost.
 551 2011-02-18 03:38:34 ousado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 552 2011-02-18 03:41:16 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
 553 2011-02-18 03:43:17 <ntosme2> I 'lost' 0.05 after flubbing a drive backup
 554 2011-02-18 03:46:06 <mmarker> ;;bc,stats
 555 2011-02-18 03:46:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108850 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 13 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 25 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36352.80172669
 556 2011-02-18 03:46:18 <mmarker> Oh man.
 557 2011-02-18 03:46:25 Nonlin has joined
 558 2011-02-18 03:46:32 * mmarker throws the kitchen sink at the hashing
 559 2011-02-18 03:46:50 Nonlin has quit (Client Quit)
 560 2011-02-18 03:54:05 <ntosme2> now for some reason Diablo is giving me really crappy hash rates
 561 2011-02-18 03:54:14 <ntosme2> no idea what changed
 562 2011-02-18 03:55:09 larsig has joined
 563 2011-02-18 03:55:22 <Lachesis> anyone know an alternative for nullvoid's services?
 564 2011-02-18 03:55:24 <Lachesis> like http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/difficultiez.php
 565 2011-02-18 03:56:57 <hacim_> that doesn't work for me
 566 2011-02-18 03:59:58 sethsethseth____ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
 567 2011-02-18 04:04:45 <Diablo-D3> hmm
 568 2011-02-18 04:04:47 <Diablo-D3> 11.2 is broken I think
 569 2011-02-18 04:04:52 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: driver bug
 570 2011-02-18 04:05:05 <Diablo-D3> make sure you're using 10.11 sdk 2.1 and -w 64
 571 2011-02-18 04:06:26 <ntosme2> what's the performance penalty going to WinXP vs recent Linux?
 572 2011-02-18 04:06:46 <Diablo-D3> windows sucks.
 573 2011-02-18 04:07:04 <ntosme2> hmm nevermind then
 574 2011-02-18 04:07:37 <ntosme2> I though the setup might be a bit simpler
 575 2011-02-18 04:07:49 <foucist> Diablo-D3: which is better given the choice, diamond or xfx? :P
 576 2011-02-18 04:07:56 <Diablo-D3> foucist: I refuse to buy either
 577 2011-02-18 04:08:00 <Diablo-D3> both are shit chinese oem brands
 578 2011-02-18 04:08:07 <foucist> ah
 579 2011-02-18 04:08:41 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 580 2011-02-18 04:08:43 <ntosme2> I went with PowerColor
 581 2011-02-18 04:08:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108855 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 8 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 52 minutes and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36392.84633309
 582 2011-02-18 04:08:51 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats
 583 2011-02-18 04:08:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108855 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 8 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 52 minutes and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36392.84633309
 584 2011-02-18 04:09:00 <afed> guiz everyone turn off their miners for the next hour so the diff won't go up
 585 2011-02-18 04:09:03 <foucist> ntosme2: oh apparently those are the worst
 586 2011-02-18 04:09:10 <JunK-Y> 52 minutes, yay!
 587 2011-02-18 04:09:12 <ntosme2> oh good!
 588 2011-02-18 04:09:12 <foucist> afed: would htat work?
 589 2011-02-18 04:09:14 <afed> if we stop mining now maybe the difficulty will go down
 590 2011-02-18 04:09:16 <afed> foucist: no :)
 591 2011-02-18 04:09:17 <foucist> lol
 592 2011-02-18 04:09:32 <JunK-Y> cards are pretty cheap on ncix
 593 2011-02-18 04:09:41 <JunK-Y> the 5870 and 6950
 594 2011-02-18 04:09:48 <ntosme2> foucist: reliability or overall speed?
 595 2011-02-18 04:09:57 <afed> JunK-Y: do they still ahve 5970 instock?
 596 2011-02-18 04:10:12 <foucist> ntosme2: reliability
 597 2011-02-18 04:10:15 <JunK-Y> dunno, its too expensive for me
 598 2011-02-18 04:10:32 <JunK-Y> ive paid mine 669$ in last august, now its at like 775$
 599 2011-02-18 04:10:42 <afed> yeah that's awful
 600 2011-02-18 04:10:52 <JunK-Y> better take 2 5870 for 200$ each
 601 2011-02-18 04:10:53 <ntosme2> foucist: maybe I can get them to fail in the warranty period then heh
 602 2011-02-18 04:10:57 <afed> a good price is $500 to $550 USD
 603 2011-02-18 04:11:23 <afed> more expensive than two 5870s and less hashes, but you can have twice the GPUs for your mobo/cpu/ram
 604 2011-02-18 04:11:25 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: $700 is cheap?
 605 2011-02-18 04:11:27 <afed> saves money building out miners
 606 2011-02-18 04:11:38 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: not long ago, NewEgg had them for $600
 607 2011-02-18 04:12:02 <JunK-Y> http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=52233&vpn=HD587XZNFC&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1270
 608 2011-02-18 04:13:07 satamusic has joined
 609 2011-02-18 04:13:07 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: I got 5850 for $162. Much better deal.
 610 2011-02-18 04:14:18 <foucist> JunK-Y: where are you again?
 611 2011-02-18 04:14:24 <JunK-Y> 2.09 TeraFLOPS , not bad.
 612 2011-02-18 04:14:26 <foucist> ncix is vancouver..
 613 2011-02-18 04:14:35 <JunK-Y> foucist: montreal, Qc
 614 2011-02-18 04:14:47 <JunK-Y> i order really often at ncix
 615 2011-02-18 04:14:54 <JunK-Y> it takes 3 days for deliver.
 616 2011-02-18 04:15:11 satamusic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 617 2011-02-18 04:15:36 <foucist> 210 is pretty good for 5870, i only saw 290 before (on ncix)
 618 2011-02-18 04:15:51 <JunK-Y> yeah, raelly cheap
 619 2011-02-18 04:16:03 <JunK-Y> but like is right too, pretty cheap for the 5850 too
 620 2011-02-18 04:16:13 <JunK-Y> but i would pay 50$ for to jump at 2.7 TF
 621 2011-02-18 04:16:31 <foucist> well 2x5850 would be about 550MHash/s
 622 2011-02-18 04:16:37 <foucist> overclocked a bit
 623 2011-02-18 04:16:40 <JunK-Y> 1440 SP vs 1600 SP
 624 2011-02-18 04:16:50 <foucist> yeah true
 625 2011-02-18 04:16:59 <JunK-Y> and cost much more then the 5970 :)
 626 2011-02-18 04:17:34 <luke-jr> too bad difficulty goes up
 627 2011-02-18 04:17:41 <luke-jr> or I'd build a bunch of 5850 rigs :p
 628 2011-02-18 04:18:01 <JunK-Y> did you guys joined bitcoin 'long' time ago?
 629 2011-02-18 04:18:08 <foucist> not i
 630 2011-02-18 04:18:09 <luke-jr> I joined Jan 1
 631 2011-02-18 04:18:24 <JunK-Y> i just sunday
 632 2011-02-18 04:18:32 <JunK-Y> just joined..
 633 2011-02-18 04:18:40 <luke-jr> I just got my 5850 2 weeks ago
 634 2011-02-18 04:18:46 <luke-jr> already paid for itself mining 200 BTC
 635 2011-02-18 04:18:51 <JunK-Y> luke-jr: did you accumulate a lot of BTC since 1.5 month?
 636 2011-02-18 04:18:56 <JunK-Y> nice
 637 2011-02-18 04:18:58 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: mostly purchased
 638 2011-02-18 04:19:08 <luke-jr> currently, I haven't broken even on the USD side
 639 2011-02-18 04:19:15 <luke-jr> waiting for BTC to go up a bit more before I sell again
 640 2011-02-18 04:19:32 <luke-jr> I include the 5850 cost in my bitcoin-related expenses :P
 641 2011-02-18 04:19:54 <JunK-Y> ya, with the diffilculty increase, its going to take more processing to get 200 BTC :)
 642 2011-02-18 04:20:44 <docl> what we need to do is find a way to get all the big time miners to allocate their gpu resources elsewhere. like curing cancer or something! :P
 643 2011-02-18 04:21:42 <luke-jr> :P
 644 2011-02-18 04:22:40 <Lachesis> docl, too true :)
 645 2011-02-18 04:23:13 <JunK-Y> docl: i was at BOINC before ;)
 646 2011-02-18 04:24:57 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calc 240000
 647 2011-02-18 04:24:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 240000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 5 days, 9 hours, 14 minutes, and 10 seconds
 648 2011-02-18 04:25:18 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calc 940000
 649 2011-02-18 04:25:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 940000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 day, 8 hours, 59 minutes, and 47 seconds
 650 2011-02-18 04:26:44 <afed> the 5970 card is still the  best way to
 651 2011-02-18 04:26:48 <docl> how hard would it be to repurpose bitcoin mining rigs to transferring fiat currencies reliably?
 652 2011-02-18 04:27:37 <JunK-Y> afed: yes, since theres 2 5870 on it.
 653 2011-02-18 04:27:48 <luke-jr> docl: uh, impossible?
 654 2011-02-18 04:27:55 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 655 2011-02-18 04:27:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108859 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 4 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 26 minutes and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36411.66692100
 656 2011-02-18 04:28:00 <luke-jr> you can't transfer fiat currencies with hashing
 657 2011-02-18 04:28:01 <JunK-Y> but due to overhead, 2x5870 is faster then a single 5970
 658 2011-02-18 04:28:08 <afed> JunK-Y: sorry that was more of a mistaken up-enter than a query
 659 2011-02-18 04:28:20 <Diablo-D3> JunK-Y: no
 660 2011-02-18 04:28:28 <afed> but yea i agree
 661 2011-02-18 04:28:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
 662 2011-02-18 04:28:33 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 36411
 663 2011-02-18 04:28:34 docl has left ()
 664 2011-02-18 04:28:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 38 seconds
 665 2011-02-18 04:28:36 <Diablo-D3> a 5970 is underclocked, but can be fully clocked fine.
 666 2011-02-18 04:28:37 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 36411, is 6 days, 19 hours, 55 minutes, and 28 seconds
 667 2011-02-18 04:28:38 <mmarker> hmm, what's the most cost effective hardware nowadays? the 5970?
 668 2011-02-18 04:28:43 docl has joined
 669 2011-02-18 04:28:44 <Diablo-D3> at full clock speed, it IS two 5870s.
 670 2011-02-18 04:28:54 <luke-jr> mmarker: long-term, 5970
 671 2011-02-18 04:28:58 <afed> mmarker: hard to obtain those
 672 2011-02-18 04:29:07 <luke-jr> meh, 2 more days :x
 673 2011-02-18 04:29:20 <afed> but yeah if you figure that you can get twice as many GPUs per board/cpu/ram
 674 2011-02-18 04:29:29 <afed> you can build a farm more cheaply with those cards
 675 2011-02-18 04:29:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 676 2011-02-18 04:29:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108860 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 3 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 19 minutes and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36425.56344299
 677 2011-02-18 04:29:36 <afed> even with the price premium and lower clock speed
 678 2011-02-18 04:29:41 <Diablo-D3> yeah but afed
 679 2011-02-18 04:29:49 <Diablo-D3> all 5970s are out of stock
 680 2011-02-18 04:29:52 <Diablo-D3> no one has any anymore
 681 2011-02-18 04:29:54 <Diablo-D3> they're all gone
 682 2011-02-18 04:30:01 <afed> Diablo-D3: they're showing up used
 683 2011-02-18 04:30:09 <afed> Diablo-D3: maniac gamers want newer cards already
 684 2011-02-18 04:30:16 <afed> Diablo-D3: you can pick up an used one for less than $600
 685 2011-02-18 04:30:19 <Diablo-D3> yeah but you gotta watch those
 686 2011-02-18 04:30:21 <afed> you can't rely on that of course
 687 2011-02-18 04:30:28 <JunK-Y> Diablo-D3: ive called a local store here, they still have them, but at 800$CAD !
 688 2011-02-18 04:30:28 <Diablo-D3> a lot of those were waterblocked or other shit
 689 2011-02-18 04:30:32 <afed> used parts and intermittant supply
 690 2011-02-18 04:30:39 <Diablo-D3> and you cant get replacement heatsinks for them
 691 2011-02-18 04:30:46 <afed> sure but if you're building a farm you can easily water cool
 692 2011-02-18 04:30:50 <afed> liquid cooling scales well
 693 2011-02-18 04:30:59 <afed> you can use a single large pump, large radiator, large reservoir
 694 2011-02-18 04:31:02 <Diablo-D3> it causes more problems than it solves
 695 2011-02-18 04:31:08 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calcd 240000 36412
 696 2011-02-18 04:31:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 240000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 36412, is 1 week, 0 days, 13 hours, and 18 seconds
 697 2011-02-18 04:31:14 <luke-jr> could someone rich plz send 0.01 BTC to 1KczVqwopWXQdFLe5sNQbpCq7yGSmXx2oo for testing? :P
 698 2011-02-18 04:31:20 <Diablo-D3> art went with the stock hsfs on his cluster of 24 of them
 699 2011-02-18 04:31:35 <afed> Diablo-D3: art's machine is huge
 700 2011-02-18 04:31:41 <foucist> Diablo-D3: what were waterblocked?
 701 2011-02-18 04:31:46 <Diablo-D3> afed: you mean machines
 702 2011-02-18 04:31:49 <foucist> Diablo-D3: the $800 ones?
 703 2011-02-18 04:31:54 <Diablo-D3> foucist: ebay ones
 704 2011-02-18 04:31:54 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calcd 940000 36412
 705 2011-02-18 04:31:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 940000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 36412, is 1 day, 22 hours, 12 minutes, and 50 seconds
 706 2011-02-18 04:31:55 <afed> yeah the whole stack
 707 2011-02-18 04:32:05 <afed> could have better density with water
 708 2011-02-18 04:32:08 <Diablo-D3> afed: 5 custom 4x5970 boxes, and a normal 4x5970 box
 709 2011-02-18 04:32:09 <luke-jr> …
 710 2011-02-18 04:32:10 <afed> and make it quieter
 711 2011-02-18 04:32:12 <Diablo-D3> plus other random shit
 712 2011-02-18 04:32:23 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 713 2011-02-18 04:32:30 satamusic_ has joined
 714 2011-02-18 04:32:34 <luke-jr> please? :P
 715 2011-02-18 04:32:44 <afed> Diablo-D3: i'd love to build something like that but i think the opportunity to GPU mine profitably is closing up fast
 716 2011-02-18 04:32:47 <JunK-Y> whats ur maximum that you got in a 5870 ?
 717 2011-02-18 04:33:07 <Diablo-D3> I think the current stock record for a 5870 is over 320
 718 2011-02-18 04:33:21 <foucist> Diablo-D3: you mean non-OC'd?
 719 2011-02-18 04:33:23 <afed> luke-jr: sure, let me boot my btc machine
 720 2011-02-18 04:33:30 <Diablo-D3> foucist: yes
 721 2011-02-18 04:33:36 <luke-jr> afed: you have a dedicated bitcoin machine?
 722 2011-02-18 04:34:00 <afed> luke-jr: it's a vm
 723 2011-02-18 04:34:05 <luke-jr> i c
 724 2011-02-18 04:34:14 <afed> the client that actually holds all of my coins lives on an encrypted vm
 725 2011-02-18 04:34:20 <afed> only turned on when i need to transfer
 726 2011-02-18 04:34:34 <JunK-Y> vmware?
 727 2011-02-18 04:34:44 <luke-jr> why not just an encrypted fs?
 728 2011-02-18 04:35:15 <luke-jr> actually, I have a useless N810 I could make a dedicated bitcoind
 729 2011-02-18 04:35:24 <afed> JunK-Y: yej
 730 2011-02-18 04:35:30 <afed> can't compromise a machine that isn't turned on
 731 2011-02-18 04:35:39 <luke-jr> afed: sure you can, if it's a VM
 732 2011-02-18 04:35:41 <JunK-Y> that NAS is fucking slow!
 733 2011-02-18 04:35:51 <afed> ok yeah
 734 2011-02-18 04:35:57 <luke-jr> :P
 735 2011-02-18 04:36:40 <afed> but vmware provides the encrypted fs and some degree of isolation
 736 2011-02-18 04:36:53 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats
 737 2011-02-18 04:36:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108863 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36459.88692507
 738 2011-02-18 04:39:20 <afed> luke-jr: sent
 739 2011-02-18 04:39:44 genjix has joined
 740 2011-02-18 04:39:59 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats
 741 2011-02-18 04:40:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108863 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36459.88692507
 742 2011-02-18 04:40:13 <luke-jr> afed: wow, like 40 sec before it hit me
 743 2011-02-18 04:40:36 <afed> not bad eh?
 744 2011-02-18 04:40:46 <luke-jr> might be if I was buying coffee :P
 745 2011-02-18 04:41:34 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 746 2011-02-18 04:45:03 bitcoiner has joined
 747 2011-02-18 04:45:16 <JunK-Y> how come somes blocks are more then 50 BTC?
 748 2011-02-18 04:45:52 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: fees
 749 2011-02-18 04:46:14 aok has joined
 750 2011-02-18 04:46:34 <JunK-Y> http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000844e197cacc78e949de0fbcc97c8fdb1bdba38058e9d630a633b   total BTC: 66.4
 751 2011-02-18 04:46:55 <afed> transactions
 752 2011-02-18 04:47:00 <luke-jr> that's not what the block producer got
 753 2011-02-18 04:47:07 <luke-jr> that's total of all transactions
 754 2011-02-18 04:47:17 <JunK-Y> the producer got 50, right?
 755 2011-02-18 04:47:59 <foucist> how much does the electricity typically cost for 4x5970 per month?
 756 2011-02-18 04:48:12 <foucist> asusming 0.20 kW/hr?
 757 2011-02-18 04:48:15 <foucist> er or whatever it was
 758 2011-02-18 04:48:18 <JunK-Y> last question for today, is there any way to run BTC in an offline mode? i mean, my brother has an ATI 4870 but hes not online all the time.
 759 2011-02-18 04:48:45 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: no
 760 2011-02-18 04:48:48 <AAA_awright> JunK-Y: Blocks are generates about every 10 minutes, not at all
 761 2011-02-18 04:49:05 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: that's part of the security
 762 2011-02-18 04:49:15 <JunK-Y> so i cant keep mining for like days. ok.
 763 2011-02-18 04:49:20 <luke-jr> sure you can
 764 2011-02-18 04:49:23 <luke-jr> just keep online
 765 2011-02-18 04:49:35 <JunK-Y> luke-jr: he has a crappy DSL :(
 766 2011-02-18 04:49:38 <luke-jr> so?
 767 2011-02-18 04:49:41 <luke-jr> DSL is still 24/7
 768 2011-02-18 04:49:53 <JunK-Y> not when ur DSL is keep disconnecting
 769 2011-02-18 04:49:57 <Diablo-D3> heh
 770 2011-02-18 04:50:04 <luke-jr> so keep it reconnecting -.-
 771 2011-02-18 04:50:06 <AAA_awright> Heck you can use dial up it isn't *that* intensive
 772 2011-02-18 04:50:16 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: what's that?
 773 2011-02-18 04:50:36 <JunK-Y> he'll with with dnetc
 774 2011-02-18 04:50:44 <JunK-Y> he'll stay..
 775 2011-02-18 04:50:49 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: What's what?
 776 2011-02-18 04:50:53 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: dialup :p
 777 2011-02-18 04:51:07 <AAA_awright> Heh
 778 2011-02-18 04:51:21 <AAA_awright> Occasionally useful to revolutionaries, that's what it is
 779 2011-02-18 04:51:40 <JunK-Y> the new stats on slush's pool is cool.
 780 2011-02-18 04:52:01 <mmarker> hmm, didnt get a good answer. I have a desktop machine and a remote machine running the bitcoind daemon. any way to export keys from the daemon and into the desktop's wallet?
 781 2011-02-18 04:52:06 <doublec> a new method of calculating scores is a pain for intermittent miners
 782 2011-02-18 04:52:09 <doublec> s/a/the/
 783 2011-02-18 04:53:06 <doublec> I got a reward of around 1e-11 for 1 share
 784 2011-02-18 04:53:36 <mmarker> wow, just got a .17 reward
 785 2011-02-18 04:53:37 <mmarker> hawt
 786 2011-02-18 04:53:45 <mmarker> ;;bc,stats
 787 2011-02-18 04:53:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108863 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36459.88692507
 788 2011-02-18 04:54:00 <JunK-Y> mmarker: your first one?
 789 2011-02-18 04:54:15 <mmarker> my first large payoff
 790 2011-02-18 04:54:21 <mmarker> leaving the Nvidia 460 on
 791 2011-02-18 04:54:24 <JunK-Y> yay, welcome :)
 792 2011-02-18 04:54:32 <mmarker> the other machines are cpu miners, 250khash boxen
 793 2011-02-18 04:54:48 <mmarker> I go for efficiency :D
 794 2011-02-18 04:54:53 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats 2500
 795 2011-02-18 04:54:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108863 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36459.88692507
 796 2011-02-18 04:55:04 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calc 2500
 797 2011-02-18 04:55:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2500 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 year, 21 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 40 minutes, and 17 seconds
 798 2011-02-18 04:55:23 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calcd 2500 36460
 799 2011-02-18 04:55:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2500 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 36460, is 1 year, 51 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes, and 23 seconds
 800 2011-02-18 04:55:28 <JunK-Y> outch
 801 2011-02-18 04:55:35 <JFK911> Cool.  I got one last block before the difficulty went up.
 802 2011-02-18 04:55:48 molecular has joined
 803 2011-02-18 04:55:58 <mmarker> 108864 is harder now, eh?
 804 2011-02-18 04:56:13 <JFK911> That's the trigger isn't it
 805 2011-02-18 04:56:51 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 806 2011-02-18 04:56:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108863 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36459.88692507
 807 2011-02-18 04:57:00 <afed> are we there yet
 808 2011-02-18 04:57:22 <JunK-Y> 108856 tooks a longer, i wonder for 864.
 809 2011-02-18 04:57:28 grubles has joined
 810 2011-02-18 05:01:14 bitjet has joined
 811 2011-02-18 05:07:59 <mmarker> hmm, should be done soon
 812 2011-02-18 05:11:28 <foucist> hey guys
 813 2011-02-18 05:11:40 <foucist> is there any escrow for bitcoins?
 814 2011-02-18 05:12:01 <foucist> since its based on cryptography and hashes and such
 815 2011-02-18 05:12:17 <foucist> wouldn't there be a built-in process for escrow
 816 2011-02-18 05:12:19 <foucist> well guses not
 817 2011-02-18 05:13:01 hacim_ is now known as hacim
 818 2011-02-18 05:13:04 <foucist> oh, cool, clearcoin.. checking it out
 819 2011-02-18 05:13:59 hacim has quit (Changing host)
 820 2011-02-18 05:13:59 hacim has joined
 821 2011-02-18 05:16:32 <mmarker> yea. add a human in the loop, you can get escrow
 822 2011-02-18 05:16:32 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 823 2011-02-18 05:16:37 <mmarker> Time for some sleep
 824 2011-02-18 05:16:52 <mmarker> maybe block 108864 will be done by then
 825 2011-02-18 05:18:06 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 826 2011-02-18 05:18:09 Lube has joined
 827 2011-02-18 05:18:33 molecular has joined
 828 2011-02-18 05:18:46 satamusic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 829 2011-02-18 05:19:35 <MT`AwAy> anyone interested into buying dedicated servers in bitcoins ?
 830 2011-02-18 05:19:40 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 831 2011-02-18 05:21:06 ousado_ is now known as ousado
 832 2011-02-18 05:21:08 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: perhaps.
 833 2011-02-18 05:21:10 ousado has quit (Changing host)
 834 2011-02-18 05:21:10 ousado has joined
 835 2011-02-18 05:21:31 <MT`AwAy> starting at ~60 btc/month
 836 2011-02-18 05:21:39 <MT`AwAy> (price will vary depending on bitcoin exchange rates)
 837 2011-02-18 05:21:58 <luke-jr> meh
 838 2011-02-18 05:22:15 <luke-jr> better be a quad core at that cost
 839 2011-02-18 05:22:25 <MT`AwAy> it is
 840 2011-02-18 05:22:34 <MT`AwAy> AMD Athlon™ II X4 with 8GB ram
 841 2011-02-18 05:22:45 <MT`AwAy> hard disk is 2x1TB
 842 2011-02-18 05:22:53 <jgarzik> that's a pretty good price
 843 2011-02-18 05:22:54 <MT`AwAy> (default with soft RAID1)
 844 2011-02-18 05:22:56 <Lachesis> difficulty change after this block! :)
 845 2011-02-18 05:22:58 <luke-jr> hmm
 846 2011-02-18 05:23:02 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: details? :P
 847 2011-02-18 05:23:05 <foucist> MT`AwAy: is it in a datacenter?  unmetered?
 848 2011-02-18 05:23:14 <MT`AwAy> unmetered
 849 2011-02-18 05:23:17 <luke-jr> …
 850 2011-02-18 05:23:20 <foucist> 10mbps or 100?
 851 2011-02-18 05:23:25 <Lachesis> ;;bc,diff
 852 2011-02-18 05:23:26 <gribble> 36459.88692508
 853 2011-02-18 05:23:27 <MT`AwAy> 100Mbps
 854 2011-02-18 05:23:34 <foucist> good deal
 855 2011-02-18 05:23:41 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: what's the catch?
 856 2011-02-18 05:23:43 <MT`AwAy> available either in Europe (delivery within 24 hours) or in US (delivery not guaranteed at this time)
 857 2011-02-18 05:24:38 <foucist> yeah it sounds like a $150-$200/mo dedi  (not that i'm abreast of the current deals)
 858 2011-02-18 05:24:42 <MT`AwAy> you get one ip, and can order up to 3 more for free (in Europe. In US there are some troubles with ips right now, it's not possible to order them until we finish fixing this... ipv6 broke everything)
 859 2011-02-18 05:24:45 <foucist> i haven't really looked at dedis for a couple yearss
 860 2011-02-18 05:24:59 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: pfft
 861 2011-02-18 05:25:00 satamusic has joined
 862 2011-02-18 05:25:12 <luke-jr> 4 IPs total severely limits usefulness IMO
 863 2011-02-18 05:25:16 <MT`AwAy> yes
 864 2011-02-18 05:25:17 <MT`AwAy> I know
 865 2011-02-18 05:25:22 <foucist> luke-jr: why's that?
 866 2011-02-18 05:25:27 <foucist> luke-jr: worried about SEO type stuff?
 867 2011-02-18 05:25:32 <MT`AwAy> not like I can say much about that at this time
 868 2011-02-18 05:25:33 <luke-jr> but then again, I guess to be expected given that we're out of IPv4s globally
 869 2011-02-18 05:25:36 <JFK911> well a couple blocks went
 870 2011-02-18 05:25:43 <luke-jr> foucist: wtf is SEO?
 871 2011-02-18 05:25:52 <MT`AwAy> luke-jr, Search Engine Optimization
 872 2011-02-18 05:25:56 <foucist> luke-jr: what do you need multiple IPs for?
 873 2011-02-18 05:26:00 <MT`AwAy> some people think it's better for each site to have their own ips
 874 2011-02-18 05:26:02 <luke-jr> foucist: for multiple customers
 875 2011-02-18 05:26:05 <MT`AwAy> foucist, hosting VPS for example
 876 2011-02-18 05:26:08 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 400000
 877 2011-02-18 05:26:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 4 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, and 45 seconds
 878 2011-02-18 05:26:11 <MT`AwAy> (or SSL certificates)
 879 2011-02-18 05:26:25 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: SSL supports virtual hosting for years now
 880 2011-02-18 05:26:28 <JFK911> OK this isn't so bad.
 881 2011-02-18 05:26:32 <MT`AwAy> luke-jr, not in MSIE
 882 2011-02-18 05:26:36 <MT`AwAy> (on winXp)
 883 2011-02-18 05:26:40 <JFK911> lol
 884 2011-02-18 05:26:41 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: pretty sure in MSIE too
 885 2011-02-18 05:26:42 <JFK911> it's 2011.
 886 2011-02-18 05:26:48 <luke-jr> wtf is sending a bunch of 50 BTC coins?
 887 2011-02-18 05:26:49 <MT`AwAy> luke-jr, no, not if os = winxp
 888 2011-02-18 05:26:55 cronopio has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 889 2011-02-18 05:26:58 <luke-jr> oh
 890 2011-02-18 05:27:04 <luke-jr> someone is probably going to cash out
 891 2011-02-18 05:27:06 <JFK911> Well, centos has an apache that doesn't make it easy, also.
 892 2011-02-18 05:27:07 <MT`AwAy> I know, that's the only FUCKING CRAP stopping me from using SNI
 893 2011-02-18 05:27:14 <JFK911> But that will be fixed soon
 894 2011-02-18 05:27:18 * MT`AwAy hates microsoft a bit more each day
 895 2011-02-18 05:27:20 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so what ever happened to that contributor award?
 896 2011-02-18 05:27:24 <luke-jr> JFK911: CentOS is crap, what do you expect?
 897 2011-02-18 05:27:31 <JFK911> Hm
 898 2011-02-18 05:27:34 <foucist> luke-jr: cash out how?
 899 2011-02-18 05:27:36 <MT`AwAy> nanotube, haven't time to finish verifying the results
 900 2011-02-18 05:27:53 <luke-jr> foucist: they're sending 500 BTC to a single account, probably MtGox or Market
 901 2011-02-18 05:27:54 mmarker has quit (Quit: mmarker)
 902 2011-02-18 05:27:55 <MT`AwAy> nanotube, I'll finish that soon, publish it, retrieve bitcoin addresses for everyone, and send funds soon
 903 2011-02-18 05:27:58 <MT`AwAy> probably this weekend
 904 2011-02-18 05:28:08 <foucist> luke-jr: who's they? how do you know this?
 905 2011-02-18 05:28:13 <luke-jr> foucist: #bitcoin-monitor
 906 2011-02-18 05:28:17 <foucist> oh
 907 2011-02-18 05:28:17 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: heh ok cool.
 908 2011-02-18 05:28:24 <luke-jr> whoever owns 1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc at the exchange
 909 2011-02-18 05:29:55 doublec has joined
 910 2011-02-18 05:30:27 <genjix> 2 questions:
 911 2011-02-18 05:31:07 akem has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 912 2011-02-18 05:31:22 <genjix> - for an automated wallet backup service... how to stop DOS from people uploading their wallets too much? (want to backup after every send and not legitamately stop uploads)
 913 2011-02-18 05:32:02 <luke-jr> genjix: impossible if it's encrypted
 914 2011-02-18 05:32:12 <nanotube> genjix: diffs. if data didn't change... don't store.
 915 2011-02-18 05:32:37 <genjix> wallet.dat stores data about transactions
 916 2011-02-18 05:32:40 akem has joined
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 918 2011-02-18 05:32:41 akem has joined
 919 2011-02-18 05:32:44 <genjix> so it does change after every send.
 920 2011-02-18 05:34:19 <nanotube> genjix: yes... so, you said you /want/ to back up after every send, no?
 921 2011-02-18 05:34:24 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 922 2011-02-18 05:34:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108865 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 2014 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 145839.54770030
 923 2011-02-18 05:34:27 <genjix> yeah
 924 2011-02-18 05:34:36 <afed> 145839.54770030
 925 2011-02-18 05:34:36 maintstate has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 926 2011-02-18 05:34:38 <afed> LOL
 927 2011-02-18 05:34:50 <nanotube> afed: estimate not accurate until a afew hundred blocks in current chunk have been generated.
 928 2011-02-18 05:35:00 <afed> nanotube: good to know
 929 2011-02-18 05:35:01 <genjix> i think probably best solution is just to monitor for unusual activity and do lock downs when/if it happens.
 930 2011-02-18 05:35:06 <afed> those are horrifying estimates
 931 2011-02-18 05:35:24 <nanotube> afed: haha yea
 932 2011-02-18 05:35:25 <afed> price of coins hasn't moved yet
 933 2011-02-18 05:35:31 <afed> what are you expecting to see?
 934 2011-02-18 05:35:33 <nanotube> the 36.5 k current difficulty is real, though.
 935 2011-02-18 05:35:40 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
 936 2011-02-18 05:35:40 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.0502,"low":1.03,"vol":4685,"buy":1.031,"sell":1.0402,"last":1.033}}
 937 2011-02-18 05:35:51 <nanotube> afed: what am i expecting to see as far as what? price? difficulty estimate?
 938 2011-02-18 05:35:53 cronopio has joined
 939 2011-02-18 05:35:55 <afed> price
 940 2011-02-18 05:36:17 <nanotube> afed: well, price and diff are not directly connected. but in the long term, fundamentals point to "up" :)
 941 2011-02-18 05:37:04 <afed> :)
 942 2011-02-18 05:37:25 <afed> at some point we have to find the limit of the demand for bitcoins
 943 2011-02-18 05:37:51 <JunK-Y> nanotube: imagine in 3 years what the diff will be :)
 944 2011-02-18 05:37:57 <afed> i like building miners but i don't want to buy more hardware and see a crash
 945 2011-02-18 05:38:14 <JFK911> Obviously the best time to mine is now!
 946 2011-02-18 05:38:25 <JFK911> Build the max miners you can, because it will only be more difficult in the future
 947 2011-02-18 05:38:48 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
 948 2011-02-18 05:39:07 <afed> which i should have done three months ago
 949 2011-02-18 05:39:13 <nanotube> JunK-Y: heh yes i imagine. if the price keeps up with difficulty, the sky's the limit. :)
 950 2011-02-18 05:39:30 <JFK911> Right, afed!  How much would you have now?
 951 2011-02-18 05:39:42 <nanotube> afed: well, nobody can predict the future.... but at the moment, the bitcoin economy is still very small, so quite a bit of market share still remains to be captured. :)
 952 2011-02-18 05:40:00 <JunK-Y> nanotube: so you're keeping all ur BTC :)  do you have a lot so far?
 953 2011-02-18 05:40:29 <nanotube> JunK-Y: trade secret. :)
 954 2011-02-18 05:40:57 <JunK-Y> i give u 0.01 BTC for that secret :P
 955 2011-02-18 05:41:02 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 956 2011-02-18 05:41:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108866 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 2013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 12 hours, 11 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 72759.18209693
 957 2011-02-18 05:41:23 <nanotube> JFK911: not enough heh.
 958 2011-02-18 05:41:24 <JFK911> Alert, Alert!  100% Difficulty Increase Pending!
 959 2011-02-18 05:41:25 jackmcbarn has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 960 2011-02-18 05:41:35 <nanotube> er, JunK-Y not enough :P
 961 2011-02-18 05:41:40 jackmcbarn has joined
 962 2011-02-18 05:44:59 lzd_hz has joined
 963 2011-02-18 05:45:06 <JFK911> Blocks are going fast!
 964 2011-02-18 05:45:12 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 965 2011-02-18 05:45:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108868 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 11 hours, 52 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 85054.29657794
 966 2011-02-18 05:49:13 <nanotube> mmm wow
 967 2011-02-18 05:49:44 <MT`AwAy> w0000t ?
 968 2011-02-18 05:49:48 <MT`AwAy> Next Difficulty Estimate: 85054.29657794
 969 2011-02-18 05:49:53 <MT`AwAy> 36k => 85k ?
 970 2011-02-18 05:50:01 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: so…  more infos? :p
 971 2011-02-18 05:50:10 <MT`AwAy> luke-jr, like ?
 972 2011-02-18 05:50:17 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: heh still inaccurate. give it anoher 300 blocks.
 973 2011-02-18 05:50:33 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: uplinks, datacenter, etc
 974 2011-02-18 05:50:36 bitjet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 975 2011-02-18 05:50:58 <MT`AwAy> mh
 976 2011-02-18 05:51:00 <MT`AwAy> oh yeah
 977 2011-02-18 05:51:06 <MT`AwAy> luke-jr, EU or US ?
 978 2011-02-18 05:51:30 <luke-jr> both :p
 979 2011-02-18 05:51:33 <MT`AwAy> XD
 980 2011-02-18 05:51:52 <MT`AwAy> most traffic go through level3
 981 2011-02-18 05:52:05 <MT`AwAy> and when there are better alternatives it uses those
 982 2011-02-18 05:52:45 <luke-jr> ping test IP? :P
 983 2011-02-18 05:52:47 <MT`AwAy> (gblx, cogent, interoute, ecix, de-cix, etc)
 984 2011-02-18 05:53:06 <MT`AwAy> luke-jr, EU or US? (in fact I have no test server in EU right now)
 985 2011-02-18 05:53:13 <luke-jr> both! :P
 986 2011-02-18 05:54:56 <MT`AwAy> PM ? :p
 987 2011-02-18 05:58:01 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 988 2011-02-18 06:00:21 aGH-[i] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 989 2011-02-18 06:00:29 satamusic_ has joined
 990 2011-02-18 06:00:54 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy: sure, but I'm heading to bed
 991 2011-02-18 06:00:58 <MT`AwAy> :)
 992 2011-02-18 06:01:01 <luke-jr> maybe will reply tomorrow sometime
 993 2011-02-18 06:03:11 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 994 2011-02-18 06:04:00 bossweld has joined
 995 2011-02-18 06:04:09 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 996 2011-02-18 06:04:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108870 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 2009 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 12 hours, 48 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78772.29352750
 997 2011-02-18 06:11:35 <citizen> how can the next difficulty be so much greater?
 998 2011-02-18 06:12:40 <citizen> pool down?
 999 2011-02-18 06:12:54 <foucist> because someone leaked the bitcoin secret to slashdot
1000 2011-02-18 06:13:51 <ntosme2> oh wow, maybe that will put a damper on GPU purchases
1001 2011-02-18 06:13:51 <Syke> just a run of lucky blocks generated too fast. at least I hope that's all it is!
1002 2011-02-18 06:13:57 grondilu has joined
1003 2011-02-18 06:14:06 grondilu has left ()
1004 2011-02-18 06:16:55 <JFK911> Maybe someone waited until now to start mining
1005 2011-02-18 06:16:59 <JFK911> Someone big.
1006 2011-02-18 06:17:07 <JFK911> So that their power wouldn't affect the difficulty level
1007 2011-02-18 06:17:11 <JFK911> Until next time.
1008 2011-02-18 06:17:32 <JFK911> It's as if someone waited until just the right time to bring an array of ASIC miners online.
1009 2011-02-18 06:17:34 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
1010 2011-02-18 06:17:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108871 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 2008 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 16 hours, 36 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66924.84238410
1011 2011-02-18 06:17:42 <citizen> lol
1012 2011-02-18 06:17:43 <nanotube> down by 12k already
1013 2011-02-18 06:17:46 <nanotube> heh
1014 2011-02-18 06:17:46 <citizen> wonder who that someone could be
1015 2011-02-18 06:17:58 <nanotube> just don't put much stock into the estimate until a few hundred blocks have passed.
1016 2011-02-18 06:18:36 <citizen> man, i really would like a way to stop video cards from going to sleep
1017 2011-02-18 06:18:46 <citizen> i guess ill have to hookup a kvm switch
1018 2011-02-18 06:18:59 <citizen> would be so much nicer if software could do it though :P
1019 2011-02-18 06:21:48 malfy has joined
1020 2011-02-18 06:22:36 <ntosme2> citizen: disable dpms?
1021 2011-02-18 06:22:40 eTX-[u] has joined
1022 2011-02-18 06:22:50 <ntosme2> mine don't sleep
1023 2011-02-18 06:23:13 <midnightmagic_> NO, guys the difficulty is high like that because the estimate take a little while to settle down after it first changes.
1024 2011-02-18 06:23:32 <genjix> any powerpuff girls fans here?
1025 2011-02-18 06:26:40 <midnightmagic_> ;;bc,calc 11750000
1026 2011-02-18 06:26:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11750000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 3 hours, 42 minutes, and 7 seconds
1027 2011-02-18 06:26:47 <midnightmagic_> bah
1028 2011-02-18 06:29:44 lfm has joined
1029 2011-02-18 06:31:14 <yay6892> bitcoin mining does not use too much bandwidth right? does anyone have some estimate of necessary monthly bw?
1030 2011-02-18 06:31:59 local has joined
1031 2011-02-18 06:33:31 <foucist> yay6892: you could probably do it with a 9600 baud modem
1032 2011-02-18 06:33:54 <foucist> bw is probably less than 100mb a month?
1033 2011-02-18 06:33:56 <foucist> just a guess
1034 2011-02-18 06:34:48 <yay6892> my question sucked. I should have asked, if I use a mining pool the bw consumption is higher as far as I understand. is it much higher?
1035 2011-02-18 06:35:23 <lfm> it might add up to quite a lot over a month cuz it is kinda steady
1036 2011-02-18 06:35:41 <foucist> i can't imagine it be more than running an IRC server
1037 2011-02-18 06:35:55 <foucist> and an IRC server with hundreds of users barely hits 1GB/mo
1038 2011-02-18 06:36:18 <yay6892> i dont want to set up a new pool, just be a client
1039 2011-02-18 06:36:22 <foucist> plain text doesn't take much
1040 2011-02-18 06:36:26 <foucist> or hashes
1041 2011-02-18 06:36:54 <lfm> it would probably help to restrict the number of connections sine the data can be duplicated on each connection
1042 2011-02-18 06:36:56 <foucist> yay6892: yeah i would expect it to be less than half a gig a month (but i'm a complete bitcoin noob)
1043 2011-02-18 06:37:33 <yay6892> ok thanks
1044 2011-02-18 06:38:24 Bth8 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1045 2011-02-18 06:40:56 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1046 2011-02-18 06:53:51 <midnightmagic_> yay6892: bitcoin mining only needs to happen between the bitcoin daemon, and the miner. that can be local. the rest of it, bitcoind->outside world, is comprised of a few hundred bytes a message. hardly anything.
1047 2011-02-18 06:54:43 satamusic_ is now known as satamusic
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1049 2011-02-18 06:54:49 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
1050 2011-02-18 06:54:49 satamusic has joined
1051 2011-02-18 06:55:08 <midnightmagic_> yay: a pool is much higher because you're retrieving and solving much easier blocks. so it's based on an easier difficulty, which means more chatter, but not really that much.. why?
1052 2011-02-18 06:55:31 skeledrew has joined
1053 2011-02-18 06:56:21 <lfm> since he was asking per month i assume he was on some data plan either pay per byte or with a limit, some of those limits can be very low
1054 2011-02-18 06:59:18 foucist has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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1069 2011-02-18 07:47:04 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1070 2011-02-18 07:48:14 <ntosme2> does anyone see why this would be getting me such bad performance with Diablo? http://pastebin.com/WEpgwMTq
1071 2011-02-18 07:48:32 <ntosme2> using sdk 2.1 and -w64
1072 2011-02-18 07:49:12 <Diablo-D3> what driver?
1073 2011-02-18 07:49:30 <slush> ntosme2: do you see any connection problems? I'm playing with server right now
1074 2011-02-18 07:49:52 <ntosme2> slush: no, no issues
1075 2011-02-18 07:49:58 <slush> ok
1076 2011-02-18 07:50:01 <ntosme2> Diablo-D3: fglrx
1077 2011-02-18 07:50:09 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: that didnt answer the question
1078 2011-02-18 07:50:10 <ntosme2> 2x 5770s
1079 2011-02-18 07:50:16 <ntosme2> you want a version?
1080 2011-02-18 07:50:18 local has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1081 2011-02-18 07:50:22 <Diablo-D3> yes
1082 2011-02-18 07:51:30 <ntosme2> 10.12
1083 2011-02-18 07:51:38 <ntosme2> hmm you mentioned 10.11
1084 2011-02-18 07:53:25 <Diablo-D3> 10.12 is broken for some people
1085 2011-02-18 07:53:31 <Diablo-D3> also, did you configure your X right?
1086 2011-02-18 07:53:49 <ntosme2> I actually thought 10.11 was an SDK release date heh
1087 2011-02-18 07:54:02 <Diablo-D3> its a driver release date.
1088 2011-02-18 07:54:08 <Diablo-D3> november 2011.
1089 2011-02-18 07:54:11 <Diablo-D3> er 2010
1090 2011-02-18 07:54:15 <ntosme2> ah
1091 2011-02-18 07:55:31 lfm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1092 2011-02-18 07:56:01 lfm has joined
1093 2011-02-18 07:56:41 <ntosme2> I believe X config is correct http://pastebin.com/kReH3TY7
1094 2011-02-18 07:57:09 <ntosme2> I'm trying the 10.11, 1 sec
1095 2011-02-18 07:57:53 <Diablo-D3> you ran aticonfig --initial --devices=all?
1096 2011-02-18 07:57:58 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1097 2011-02-18 07:58:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108884 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1995 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 2 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 50706.02535949
1098 2011-02-18 07:59:36 <ntosme2> um... aticonfig: unrecognized option '--devices=all'
1099 2011-02-18 07:59:36 <ntosme2> aticonfig: parsing the command-line failed.
1100 2011-02-18 08:00:36 <Diablo-D3> er --adapter=all
1101 2011-02-18 08:00:50 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: Im asking if you ran that
1102 2011-02-18 08:00:54 <Diablo-D3> you dont need to run it again if you did
1103 2011-02-18 08:01:58 <ntosme2> I ran it for the first time just now
1104 2011-02-18 08:02:41 <ntosme2> all it added was Option      "DesktopSetup" "horizontal"
1105 2011-02-18 08:03:10 <Diablo-D3> heh, I suspect you already ran it then
1106 2011-02-18 08:03:23 <ntosme2> perhaps
1107 2011-02-18 08:04:47 <ntosme2> no change in hash rate
1108 2011-02-18 08:04:54 <foucist> btw guys, i was wondering what makes the bitcoin sha hashing process so parallelizable for gpu etc?  has sha-256 always been parallelizable?  what about the associative/commutative/one-way hash stuff?
1109 2011-02-18 08:05:56 Zarutian has joined
1110 2011-02-18 08:07:10 <lfm> foucist: its not the SHA256 itself that is parallel, it is the thousands/millions of SHA256 needed to find a "winner" that can all run in parallel
1111 2011-02-18 08:07:10 phantomcircuit has joined
1112 2011-02-18 08:08:11 <lfm> every "hash" is separate and computed essentially serially. but khas/Mhash/Ghas can all be done at once if you have the hardware
1113 2011-02-18 08:09:10 <foucist> lfm: how are the hashes gotten?
1114 2011-02-18 08:10:08 <lfm> you create a block header which includes hashes of the previous block and the transactions you want to include. then compute SHA256(sha256(blk header))
1115 2011-02-18 08:10:54 <lfm> the blk header is always 80 bytes fixed length this way
1116 2011-02-18 08:12:28 <foucist> lfm: can two computers end up computing the same hash & getting 50BTC each or is there some communication to prevent that?
1117 2011-02-18 08:12:57 <foucist> as i understand solving a block stops the other computers from getting the 50btc
1118 2011-02-18 08:13:26 <lfm> no, the first txn is always the "reward" txn for 50 btc and it include the miner's key so every miner will have a unique TXN hash in the header
1119 2011-02-18 08:14:31 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1120 2011-02-18 08:15:50 <lfm> if two different blocks are found at the same time, it makes a "fork" off the block chain which is resolved by the next block found wich will have a previous block hash of the winner
1121 2011-02-18 08:16:00 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1122 2011-02-18 08:16:36 dissipate has joined
1123 2011-02-18 08:16:52 <lfm> the losing block is then orphaned and will never "mature" and is not worth anything
1124 2011-02-18 08:17:40 <lfm> make sense?
1125 2011-02-18 08:18:24 <phantomcircuit> foucist, yes it's possible, no it will not ever happen
1126 2011-02-18 08:18:46 <lfm> actually forks ahppen fairly often
1127 2011-02-18 08:18:57 <phantomcircuit> lfm, same hash
1128 2011-02-18 08:18:59 <phantomcircuit> possible
1129 2011-02-18 08:19:03 <phantomcircuit> ridiculously unlikely
1130 2011-02-18 08:19:09 <lfm> oh no forks are different hashes
1131 2011-02-18 08:19:09 <phantomcircuit> simultaneous blocks is not the  same
1132 2011-02-18 08:19:16 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1133 2011-02-18 08:19:32 <foucist> how many bitcoins have been discovered by now btw?
1134 2011-02-18 08:19:42 <foucist> ;;bc,stats
1135 2011-02-18 08:19:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108889 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1990 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 54584.87551313
1136 2011-02-18 08:19:52 <foucist> so 108889 * 50 ?
1137 2011-02-18 08:20:03 <phantomcircuit> foucist, like 5.5 million ish
1138 2011-02-18 08:20:09 <foucist> ok
1139 2011-02-18 08:20:18 <lfm> ya assuming sha256 is designed right its liek one chance in 2^256 that you have two hashes the same. its unimaginable
1140 2011-02-18 08:20:40 <phantomcircuit> foucist, 5444450
1141 2011-02-18 08:20:53 <dissipate> what are the odds of two people generating the same ECDSA keys?
1142 2011-02-18 08:20:58 <phantomcircuit> lfm, SHA-2 is designed wrong, but that's an issue for 5 years from now
1143 2011-02-18 08:21:17 <lfm> ;;bc,totalbc
1144 2011-02-18 08:21:18 <gribble> 5444500.00000000
1145 2011-02-18 08:23:29 <Diablo-D3> well no
1146 2011-02-18 08:23:32 <Diablo-D3> its not designed wrong
1147 2011-02-18 08:23:34 <Diablo-D3> its just not perfect
1148 2011-02-18 08:24:08 <lfm> maybe a bit of tradeoff for parcticality of computation or something
1149 2011-02-18 08:24:23 <dissipate> what's wrong with it? can collisions be generated?
1150 2011-02-18 08:24:51 <lfm> dissipate: I think only in special "weakened" versions of it so far
1151 2011-02-18 08:25:20 <Diablo-D3> lfm: yeah
1152 2011-02-18 08:25:24 <Diablo-D3> which is a bullshit theoretical attack
1153 2011-02-18 08:25:29 <Diablo-D3> call me when you can do it on the real thing
1154 2011-02-18 08:25:36 <lfm> exactly
1155 2011-02-18 08:26:11 <dissipate> how many 'rounds' until it is secure?
1156 2011-02-18 08:26:14 <Diablo-D3> the number of rounds chosen was the minimum for maximum blend
1157 2011-02-18 08:26:18 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: 64
1158 2011-02-18 08:26:35 <dissipate> so anything fewer than 64 and you can find collisions?
1159 2011-02-18 08:26:43 <midnightmagic_> not quite.
1160 2011-02-18 08:26:44 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, it's likely going to be broken within 10 years, and afaict there is no mechanism for transitioning to a new hash
1161 2011-02-18 08:26:49 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: quite a few less
1162 2011-02-18 08:27:06 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: the problem is, look at the hash size and the algo
1163 2011-02-18 08:27:16 <midnightmagic_> transition to a new hash would just require a transition path and agreement of the majority of the network's miners/blockgenerators.
1164 2011-02-18 08:27:17 <Diablo-D3> any less than 64 and you're not mixing some of the bits fully
1165 2011-02-18 08:27:48 <Diablo-D3> so yes, if your mix is imperfect, you can attack it
1166 2011-02-18 08:27:57 <Diablo-D3> with 64 rounds, its not imperfect.
1167 2011-02-18 08:28:05 <echelon> looks like one of my tx's to a mybitcoin ewallet didn't get registered or something
1168 2011-02-18 08:28:13 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic_, sure for future blocks, but how are you going to verify past blocks?
1169 2011-02-18 08:28:15 <echelon> i sent the payment 4hrs ago or so
1170 2011-02-18 08:28:23 <Diablo-D3> btw, it seems the only legitimate way of breaking sha256 is to actually find a collision
1171 2011-02-18 08:29:31 <midnightmagic_> phantom: the transition would include transactions and preserve old owners. you generate a new genesis block, set the equivalent difficulty, and make sure the majority network has the transition path prepped.
1172 2011-02-18 08:29:57 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1173 2011-02-18 08:30:01 altamic has joined
1174 2011-02-18 08:30:01 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1175 2011-02-18 08:30:01 altamic has joined
1176 2011-02-18 08:30:18 <midnightmagic_> one big giant genesis block of DOOOOOOOOOOOM
1177 2011-02-18 08:30:47 <Diablo-D3> rest assured, the only big thing of doom is in my pants
1178 2011-02-18 08:31:11 <Netsniper> ...
1179 2011-02-18 08:31:16 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: way to leave open scatological interpretations.
1180 2011-02-18 08:31:43 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: my dick, you idiot.
1181 2011-02-18 08:31:53 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, for purposes of bitcoin a much simpler partial preimage would do it
1182 2011-02-18 08:31:59 <dissipate> i'm not sure exactly why SHA-256 was picked for Bitcoin. i'm sure satoshi had his reasons.
1183 2011-02-18 08:32:08 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: currently most secure hash.
1184 2011-02-18 08:32:20 <Diablo-D3> its had the most eyeballs stared at it and it remains secure
1185 2011-02-18 08:32:20 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: ah, you can't fool me. you doing that on purpose would mean you are a borderline comic genius. i choose the higher opinion until i have evidence to the contrary..
1186 2011-02-18 08:32:40 <lfm> actually he also uses ripem160 in at least one place
1187 2011-02-18 08:32:40 <Netsniper> he's like sean connery from the jeopardy snl skits
1188 2011-02-18 08:32:47 <midnightmagic_> =]
1189 2011-02-18 08:32:48 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: well, the problem is we use sha256(sha256()
1190 2011-02-18 08:32:54 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: which theoretically breaks those
1191 2011-02-18 08:33:01 <dissipate> why pick a hash at all? there are other interesting things to compute. how about some traveling salesmen problems or something? :D
1192 2011-02-18 08:33:22 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: its properties make it ideal for the purpose.
1193 2011-02-18 08:33:34 <midnightmagic_> "ideal" i guess. pretend i'm making exaggerated airquotes.
1194 2011-02-18 08:33:48 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, the hash needs to be at least enough bits to be considered secure, and known to have been attacked and survived
1195 2011-02-18 08:34:09 <Diablo-D3> theres extremely few hashes that continue to survive the onslaught of college thesis papers.
1196 2011-02-18 08:34:57 <phantomcircuit> lol
1197 2011-02-18 08:35:05 <phantomcircuit> those crazy chinese need somehting to write about
1198 2011-02-18 08:35:12 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1199 2011-02-18 08:35:19 <dissipate> why couldn't a fixed byte prefix of an output of say Blow Fish with a known key be used?
1200 2011-02-18 08:36:09 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: because that makes no sense
1201 2011-02-18 08:36:33 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, why not?
1202 2011-02-18 08:36:41 <phantomcircuit> dissipate, any block cipher can be used as block hash
1203 2011-02-18 08:36:47 <phantomcircuit> dissipate, simply agree on a random key
1204 2011-02-18 08:36:50 <dissipate> each client has the well known key
1205 2011-02-18 08:36:52 <midnightmagic_> i think he's saying encrypt something into a blowfish block and if that block is < "difficulty" then you have a similar end result.
1206 2011-02-18 08:36:54 <JFK911> Decent deal on a 5870 in store http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0320475
1207 2011-02-18 08:36:55 <Diablo-D3> yeah but thats extremely bad usage
1208 2011-02-18 08:37:03 <dissipate> bad usage??
1209 2011-02-18 08:37:04 <Diablo-D3> dont use block cyphers for that
1210 2011-02-18 08:37:14 <lfm> Diablo-D3: hes right in a theoretical sence that any encryption algo can also be used as a hash and vice versa
1211 2011-02-18 08:37:20 <dissipate> seems to work to me.
1212 2011-02-18 08:37:31 <Diablo-D3> lfm: yeah but its not designed to give what he wants
1213 2011-02-18 08:37:43 <midnightmagic_> lfm: except those ciphers are bidirectional..
1214 2011-02-18 08:37:53 <dissipate> it doesn't *have* to be 1 way, since what you are encrypting is already public.
1215 2011-02-18 08:37:59 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: yes, yes it is.
1216 2011-02-18 08:38:12 <Diablo-D3> btw, twofish replaced blowfish, and twofish didnt become AES
1217 2011-02-18 08:38:21 <midnightmagic_> it was too slow for them.
1218 2011-02-18 08:38:22 <Diablo-D3> so even if you need a block cipher, screw it, Im using AES
1219 2011-02-18 08:38:39 <midnightmagic_> was it serpent that made the cut? shit i can't find it now.
1220 2011-02-18 08:38:46 <dissipate> AES, the AES approved by the NSA? haha
1221 2011-02-18 08:38:51 <phantomcircuit> rijndael or however you spell it
1222 2011-02-18 08:38:54 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: no, rjindel
1223 2011-02-18 08:39:01 <echelon> anyone knows who runs mybitcoin.com?
1224 2011-02-18 08:39:01 <Diablo-D3> yeah, the unspellable
1225 2011-02-18 08:39:22 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: ah right
1226 2011-02-18 08:39:43 <Diablo-D3> btw, with sha3
1227 2011-02-18 08:39:47 <Diablo-D3> I bet skein will win
1228 2011-02-18 08:39:53 <midnightmagic_> why would the NSA knowingly risk telling the government to use AES when they already knew a crack for it existed?
1229 2011-02-18 08:40:19 <Diablo-D3> because AES really does function
1230 2011-02-18 08:40:19 <dissipate> risk? so they can snoop in on everyone.
1231 2011-02-18 08:40:32 <Diablo-D3> people have externally torn AES apart
1232 2011-02-18 08:40:39 <Diablo-D3> the only flaws with AES are with implementations of it
1233 2011-02-18 08:40:47 <Diablo-D3> _especially_ hardware impls
1234 2011-02-18 08:40:53 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, give me one good reason SHA-256 must be used in this case. i doubt it does since what you are encrypting is public.
1235 2011-02-18 08:41:00 <Diablo-D3> they always do it wrong and leak data somewhere
1236 2011-02-18 08:41:29 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: its the only hash that both has a version with enough bits, and has survived the entire crypto community banging on it
1237 2011-02-18 08:41:33 mbarkhau has joined
1238 2011-02-18 08:41:55 <midnightmagic_> i think he's really asking for a reason for twofish NOT to be used..
1239 2011-02-18 08:41:55 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, IDF uses WHIRLPOOL
1240 2011-02-18 08:42:06 <Mango-chan> 2http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3551.0
1241 2011-02-18 08:42:07 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, as i said before, a fixed byte prefix of Blowfish or Twofish or AES or whatever could be used with a known key.
1242 2011-02-18 08:42:07 <Mango-chan> oh wow
1243 2011-02-18 08:42:08 <Mango-chan> LOL
1244 2011-02-18 08:42:28 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: but that does not produce unique keys.
1245 2011-02-18 08:42:32 <phantomcircuit> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3551.0
1246 2011-02-18 08:42:36 <Diablo-D3> er, unique hashes
1247 2011-02-18 08:42:45 <midnightmagic_> why do they keep saying BTC are anonymous?!
1248 2011-02-18 08:42:52 <midnightmagic_> jesus..
1249 2011-02-18 08:43:01 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, what do you mean by 'unique keys'? what unique keys?
1250 2011-02-18 08:43:13 <Diablo-D3> the the line after it
1251 2011-02-18 08:43:21 <phantomcircuit> Mango-chan, it's a trap
1252 2011-02-18 08:43:22 * Diablo-D3 is used to using hashes for hash array fodder *cough*
1253 2011-02-18 08:43:26 <phantomcircuit> Mango-chan, a trap i say
1254 2011-02-18 08:43:29 <dissipate> ???
1255 2011-02-18 08:43:38 <dissipate> what line?
1256 2011-02-18 08:43:48 <Diablo-D3> if I kill dissipate, will anyone care?
1257 2011-02-18 08:44:17 <lfm> Diablo-D3: don't be a bully
1258 2011-02-18 08:44:43 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, yes his mother
1259 2011-02-18 08:45:01 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, how are they not unique? as far as i know blowfish etc. are as pseudo random as anything else.
1260 2011-02-18 08:45:02 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: anyhow, Im not going to explain basic cryptography to you.
1261 2011-02-18 08:45:07 jeremias_ has joined
1262 2011-02-18 08:45:19 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: I can't actually think of a reason why bidirectionality is bad, but then i've been up for about 18 hours so i'm not thinking clearly.
1263 2011-02-18 08:45:41 RazielZ has joined
1264 2011-02-18 08:45:49 <dissipate> midnightmagic_, there isn't any reason because there is nothing to obscure. the info is all public anyways.
1265 2011-02-18 08:46:09 <dissipate> midnightmagic_, and now Diablo-D3 is talking down to me because he can't name a single reason. sad. :(
1266 2011-02-18 08:46:13 <midnightmagic_> you would need a key to do it..
1267 2011-02-18 08:46:29 <midnightmagic_> that would be a complicating factor. i guess that's as good a reason as any.
1268 2011-02-18 08:46:44 <dissipate> right, it would be hard coded into the clients. problem solved.
1269 2011-02-18 08:47:20 <phantomcircuit> dissipate, yes but why reinvent the wheel?
1270 2011-02-18 08:47:29 <phantomcircuit> or i guess reinvent the bicycle
1271 2011-02-18 08:47:41 <midnightmagic_> you would have to encrypt with multiple rounds to ensure the result wasn't the size of the input..
1272 2011-02-18 08:47:59 <dissipate> phantomcircuit, because hashes are easier to bust than full blown encryption
1273 2011-02-18 08:48:02 <echelon> no one knows who the mybitcoin.com owner is?
1274 2011-02-18 08:48:18 <midnightmagic_> meh, i'm sure if it were a better idea, they would've done it.
1275 2011-02-18 08:48:21 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: bidirectionality means I just posioned your data
1276 2011-02-18 08:48:36 <dissipate> midnightmagic_, add some extra salt data
1277 2011-02-18 08:48:37 <midnightmagic_> "Tom Williams"
1278 2011-02-18 08:48:39 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: for example, take hard drive
1279 2011-02-18 08:48:46 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: AES encrypt it
1280 2011-02-18 08:48:52 <Diablo-D3> take known data thats on that drive
1281 2011-02-18 08:48:57 <Diablo-D3> instant AES fail.
1282 2011-02-18 08:49:17 <Diablo-D3> given enough computational time, I can decrypt the drive because I know the un-encrypted form of some of the data.
1283 2011-02-18 08:49:32 <Diablo-D3> the more data I know, the more fail it is.
1284 2011-02-18 08:49:47 <midnightmagic_> but all you get back is what you already knew..
1285 2011-02-18 08:49:56 <midnightmagic_> in the block-chain case, i mean.
1286 2011-02-18 08:50:04 <dissipate> and this matters with public data, because?
1287 2011-02-18 08:50:29 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, hash algorithms are basically a block cipher with constant key and a compression routine
1288 2011-02-18 08:50:51 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: kind of an academic exercise. it would perhaps be better for you to be arguing about what, specifically, makes AES better than SHA256 as a "hashing" mechanism.
1289 2011-02-18 08:51:02 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, and given the blocks are already basically the size of the hash the overhead from not using a compression routine wouldn't be significant
1290 2011-02-18 08:51:07 <midnightmagic_> rather than asking us to tell you why it isn't..
1291 2011-02-18 08:51:27 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: because then I can just start faking the chain.
1292 2011-02-18 08:52:10 <midnightmagic_> how? the key would have to change to invert the encryption back to other data.
1293 2011-02-18 08:52:19 <dissipate> i'd like to hear how that would be possible.
1294 2011-02-18 08:52:33 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: and no, the compression does kick in, we're using 3 sha256 loops
1295 2011-02-18 08:52:56 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: the 2 blocks on the first sha256 mixes enough for this to work well
1296 2011-02-18 08:53:05 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: theres a paper on it
1297 2011-02-18 08:53:07 <midnightmagic_> anyway, this kind of doesn't matter.. he's asking us to prove a negative.
1298 2011-02-18 08:53:09 <Diablo-D3> cant find it
1299 2011-02-18 08:53:49 <dissipate> midnightmagic_, as far as i know, hash algorithms are much weaker than standard symmetric encryption algorithms like AES and Blowfish.
1300 2011-02-18 08:54:10 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: except what you said makes no sense.
1301 2011-02-18 08:54:19 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the compression routine is the most likely failure area
1302 2011-02-18 08:54:24 <Diablo-D3> they're not "weaker", they're used for a completely different thing
1303 2011-02-18 08:54:42 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: no, because dissipate wants to prefix the output
1304 2011-02-18 08:54:46 <Diablo-D3> which is nonsensical
1305 2011-02-18 08:54:52 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, o rly?
1306 2011-02-18 08:55:15 <Diablo-D3> you'd really want to implement an actual mixer to not lose randomness from input....
1307 2011-02-18 08:55:25 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, has someone found a collision with Blowfish? two keys that generate the same output on a give piece of data?
1308 2011-02-18 08:55:36 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, oh well
1309 2011-02-18 08:55:39 <Diablo-D3> and then you just might as well use an actually known working hash.
1310 2011-02-18 08:55:42 <midnightmagic_> I'm pretty sure compression functions used as hashes are not as well-studied.
1311 2011-02-18 08:56:04 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: the compression function of these hashes is to just keep flipping bits in the same block
1312 2011-02-18 08:56:08 <Diablo-D3> its extremely well understood.
1313 2011-02-18 08:56:21 <Diablo-D3> instead of shitting the block out, you keep operating on it
1314 2011-02-18 08:56:22 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, AES(k,block) is what i was saying
1315 2011-02-18 08:56:28 <phantomcircuit> which actually might be mroe secure
1316 2011-02-18 08:56:55 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, since the data we are dealing with is public, i don't see why it is 'non-sensical'
1317 2011-02-18 08:57:25 <phantomcircuit> although it would require either doubling the size of blocks (roughly) or decrypting the block everytime you accessed it
1318 2011-02-18 08:57:45 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: and if you're so hard on for AES, just fucking use Whirlpool
1319 2011-02-18 08:57:46 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: so, yea, *as symmetric ciphers* they might be more studied, but not as one-way compression functions.
1320 2011-02-18 08:57:55 <dissipate> given a known padding string, and key, you encrypt the block using Blowfish, and take the first X bytes.
1321 2011-02-18 08:58:34 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: that's not the best thing to do. you're effectively only hashing a small portion of the message then.
1322 2011-02-18 08:59:00 <dissipate> what do you mean?
1323 2011-02-18 08:59:06 <Diablo-D3> you're prefixing it instead of mixing it.
1324 2011-02-18 08:59:12 <dissipate> you are hashing the entire message
1325 2011-02-18 08:59:15 <Diablo-D3> and you'd want to use a cryptographically strong mixer.
1326 2011-02-18 08:59:44 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: you input 128 bits into AES, and get 128 bits out
1327 2011-02-18 08:59:47 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, i think what he's trying to say is
1328 2011-02-18 08:59:57 <Diablo-D3> if your message is, say, 256 bits, and you throw out half the output... you've only kept the first 128 bits.
1329 2011-02-18 09:00:10 <midnightmagic_> phantomcircuit: i'm starting to think he's being deliberately vague in order to have someone else fill in the blank spots for him.
1330 2011-02-18 09:00:10 <phantomcircuit> if AES(k,PAD(block)) <= target
1331 2011-02-18 09:00:11 <Diablo-D3> so any message that contains the same first 128 bits always produces the same output.
1332 2011-02-18 09:00:19 <dissipate> but why does that matter?? we just need a signature, right?
1333 2011-02-18 09:00:22 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic_, that might be possible
1334 2011-02-18 09:00:38 <dissipate> phantomcircuit, who me?
1335 2011-02-18 09:00:39 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: nope, all the outputs must be unique.
1336 2011-02-18 09:00:50 <Diablo-D3> which is why you use a cryptographically strong mixer.
1337 2011-02-18 09:00:58 <Diablo-D3> which means you just built yourself a hash.
1338 2011-02-18 09:00:58 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, and they wouldn't be with Blowfish??
1339 2011-02-18 09:01:09 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: no, because you just threw out most of your data.
1340 2011-02-18 09:01:13 <Diablo-D3> you never mixed it
1341 2011-02-18 09:01:23 <Diablo-D3> its a block cypher, it continually outputs more blocks
1342 2011-02-18 09:01:35 <Diablo-D3> [03:52:50] <Diablo-D3> if your message is, say, 256 bits, and you throw out half the output... you've only kept the first 128 bits.
1343 2011-02-18 09:01:38 <phantomcircuit> if AES(k,PAD(block),c) <= target
1344 2011-02-18 09:01:39 <Diablo-D3> [03:53:03] <Diablo-D3> so any message that contains the same first 128 bits always produces the same output.
1345 2011-02-18 09:01:51 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, uh no it doesn't
1346 2011-02-18 09:01:54 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, IV
1347 2011-02-18 09:02:03 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: I input 128, I get 128 out.
1348 2011-02-18 09:02:07 <dissipate> um, if we are only going 1 way, why the heck does it matter?
1349 2011-02-18 09:02:21 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: because all values must be unique
1350 2011-02-18 09:02:25 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, do you know what block modes are?
1351 2011-02-18 09:02:42 <dissipate> i encrypt the first block to get the signature for the second block, and i encrypt the second block to get the signature for the third block etc.
1352 2011-02-18 09:02:53 <midnightmagic_> might be done with chaining.
1353 2011-02-18 09:03:02 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: yes, and nowhere in the chain can there be two blocks with the same signature.
1354 2011-02-18 09:03:14 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, why wouldn't the first X bytes be unique? Blowfish etc. are basically symmetric pseudo-random number generators.
1355 2011-02-18 09:03:31 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the issue you're describing simply does not exist :|
1356 2011-02-18 09:03:47 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: by prefixing the output of a block cipher in as to throw away blocks, you cannot guarantee its unique
1357 2011-02-18 09:04:10 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: especially since things like time and nonce are in _not_ in the first 128 bits output.
1358 2011-02-18 09:04:13 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, if what you are saying is a problem then Blowfish etc. could be cracked easily. but i have to assume they are fairly good pseudo random number generators.
1359 2011-02-18 09:04:25 <mbarkhau> why is the client so slow to start up?
1360 2011-02-18 09:04:28 <Diablo-D3> no, Im saying you're an idiot that fails at math.
1361 2011-02-18 09:04:39 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: same goes with you.
1362 2011-02-18 09:04:39 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: it's academic at this point, it kind of doesn't matter.
1363 2011-02-18 09:04:56 <Diablo-D3> if you're not mixing the output, you _always get the same fucking hash for the first n bits of data_
1364 2011-02-18 09:05:11 <Diablo-D3> and you must use a cryptographically secure mixer
1365 2011-02-18 09:05:23 <Diablo-D3> which means you might as well use an _already existing cryptographically secure hash_
1366 2011-02-18 09:06:33 <Diablo-D3> one thats already been chosen by the security community based on if it can always produce unique hashes, and how well distributed the output is
1367 2011-02-18 09:06:50 <Diablo-D3> randomly doing dumb shit usually produces shit that fails at least one of those two.
1368 2011-02-18 09:06:50 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, you use an IV and pretty much any block mode besides ECB
1369 2011-02-18 09:07:19 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: thats like saying a kindergardener could have turned AES into Whirlpool
1370 2011-02-18 09:07:57 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, except we dont need the compression routine
1371 2011-02-18 09:08:06 <Diablo-D3> no, we need the mixer.
1372 2011-02-18 09:08:17 <dissipate> i am playing around with the blowfish app here: http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/helpers/blowfish.pl  i am *not* getting the same prefix of bytes when i change a letter at the end of my input.
1373 2011-02-18 09:08:21 <Diablo-D3> sha2 mixes exceptionally well.
1374 2011-02-18 09:08:49 <genjix> Diablo-D3: hey, I'm trying to integrate automatic wallet backups into bitcoin... atm I've written a tool that generates an RSA keypair + random 80 character string, zips them up (encrypted random pass + pub/priv RSA key) and uploads it to a server. Then whenever you want to upload a backup you encrypt using secret pass + AES, and upload the file. If you ever reinstall and wish to restore your wallet, you need to get the AES pass and the website gives you 4
1375 2011-02-18 09:08:57 <genjix> is that secure?
1376 2011-02-18 09:09:14 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: kind of not a test which is even evidence of anything. :-(
1377 2011-02-18 09:09:17 <phantomcircuit> indeed it was the compression routine in md5 that ultimately was  the flaw
1378 2011-02-18 09:09:35 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: try gwstgaetgaestgaetgetethrfshrhsrhrshsrhsrhsrhsrhsrshshrshrhsrshshrshrshrwdeteteqtqex
1379 2011-02-18 09:09:41 <Diablo-D3> and then change the last letter
1380 2011-02-18 09:09:46 <Diablo-D3> notice how little of it changes
1381 2011-02-18 09:09:55 <Diablo-D3> you're saying we should prefix it.
1382 2011-02-18 09:10:11 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, funny it all looks different to me
1383 2011-02-18 09:10:16 <phantomcircuit> what with my IV and CBC
1384 2011-02-18 09:10:21 <genjix> Diablo-D3: any ideas on that?
1385 2011-02-18 09:10:34 <Diablo-D3> genjix: go see how mozilla sync did it, actually
1386 2011-02-18 09:11:23 <genjix> comb through mozilla's sourcecode? nothx
1387 2011-02-18 09:11:45 <Diablo-D3> genjix: the technique, not the code
1388 2011-02-18 09:11:50 <Diablo-D3> genjix: because they seem to have gotten it right
1389 2011-02-18 09:11:51 <genjix> oh ok
1390 2011-02-18 09:12:00 <phantomcircuit> genjix, gpg would make that a whole hell of a lot easier
1391 2011-02-18 09:12:01 <Diablo-D3> genjix: the balance between ease of use and security seems to be right
1392 2011-02-18 09:12:16 <genjix> heh this looks like a ready made solution
1393 2011-02-18 09:12:25 <genjix> phantomcircuit: nope.
1394 2011-02-18 09:12:37 <midnightmagic_> gpg? easier? :)
1395 2011-02-18 09:12:51 <Diablo-D3> gpg is easier in the sense that you just run the commands
1396 2011-02-18 09:13:04 <midnightmagic_> for newbs? thou dost dream thy heady dreams of yore, my friend. :)
1397 2011-02-18 09:13:12 <genjix> ^ exactly.
1398 2011-02-18 09:13:21 <genjix> i just want big shiny backup button
1399 2011-02-18 09:13:27 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1400 2011-02-18 09:13:27 <Diablo-D3> but the public/private pair is kind of fail for ease of use
1401 2011-02-18 09:13:31 <genjix> auto-backups
1402 2011-02-18 09:13:33 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, you are right, i concede on that one.
1403 2011-02-18 09:13:36 <phantomcircuit> you wrap gpg in a gui script
1404 2011-02-18 09:13:49 BlueMatt has joined
1405 2011-02-18 09:13:54 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: now, the big part of crypto hashes is the mixer
1406 2011-02-18 09:13:55 <phantomcircuit> amazing
1407 2011-02-18 09:13:56 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
1408 2011-02-18 09:13:57 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 8 hours, 43 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> foucist:  yes, hash calculation is a double SHA256 on the block header that gives a 256-bit hash.
1409 2011-02-18 09:14:07 <genjix> yay users get to mess around with their gpg accounts and learn about public/private key crypto
1410 2011-02-18 09:14:07 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: where you keep feeding data into your block, and it keeps spinning
1411 2011-02-18 09:14:11 <genjix> (no)
1412 2011-02-18 09:14:17 <midnightmagic_> i wonder when gavin's going to disappear too? :-(
1413 2011-02-18 09:14:27 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1414 2011-02-18 09:14:28 <Diablo-D3> genjix: sync basically AES encrypts the data, and then shoves it into a mostly secure site
1415 2011-02-18 09:14:37 <Diablo-D3> genjix: mozilla cant decrypt it because they dont have your key
1416 2011-02-18 09:14:40 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic_ probably not, we know his real name this time
1417 2011-02-18 09:14:47 <midnightmagic_> do we?
1418 2011-02-18 09:14:47 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, i can see now how if you know any of the plain text it is much easier to get the key.
1419 2011-02-18 09:14:56 <Diablo-D3> genjix: and I can go to any firefox installation, turn sync on, set it to my sync account, type in my AES password, and shit works
1420 2011-02-18 09:14:58 RBecker has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1421 2011-02-18 09:15:03 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: yes
1422 2011-02-18 09:15:05 <midnightmagic_> i haven't seen his driver's licence..
1423 2011-02-18 09:15:08 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic_ yea he gave a talk at ignite a couple weeks ago, ie we know what he looks like etc
1424 2011-02-18 09:15:12 RBecker has joined
1425 2011-02-18 09:15:15 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: its a known attack against AES crypto on mass storage devices.
1426 2011-02-18 09:15:26 <phantomcircuit> genjix, uh no, you generate the keys for them
1427 2011-02-18 09:15:29 <midnightmagic_> BlueMatt: I saw this just a moment ago. all we really have, far as i can tell, is his face. and who knows? that hair could've been a wig.
1428 2011-02-18 09:15:46 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, well that sucks. i was going to do full drive encryption on my next Ubuntu install.
1429 2011-02-18 09:15:47 <BlueMatt> lol ok fine, he might
1430 2011-02-18 09:15:56 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: its not that it "sucks"
1431 2011-02-18 09:16:02 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: its just that you need to know the data first
1432 2011-02-18 09:16:07 <Diablo-D3> which is difficult
1433 2011-02-18 09:16:15 <midnightmagic_> BlueMatt: join me in the land of paranoia and fear of abandonment.. it's fun to visit from time to time. :)
1434 2011-02-18 09:16:19 <dissipate> well they would know the operating system...
1435 2011-02-18 09:16:29 <Diablo-D3> they'd know what, say, binaries look like
1436 2011-02-18 09:16:29 <dissipate> that's a good chunk of data right there
1437 2011-02-18 09:16:33 <Diablo-D3> and what the file system might look like
1438 2011-02-18 09:16:42 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1439 2011-02-18 09:16:42 <Diablo-D3> now, if I did that here, they'd be boned
1440 2011-02-18 09:16:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108894 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1985 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51539.64575433
1441 2011-02-18 09:16:45 <midnightmagic_> just do a luks drive and you'll be fine.
1442 2011-02-18 09:16:49 <Diablo-D3> my fs doesnt look like anybody else's
1443 2011-02-18 09:16:54 <Diablo-D3> because its been running for like 8 years
1444 2011-02-18 09:17:05 <Diablo-D3> everythings been replaced at least once
1445 2011-02-18 09:17:26 <dissipate> midnightmagic_, he is saying someone could get the key just by knowing some of the files on my drive.
1446 2011-02-18 09:17:33 <genjix> i have no files :)
1447 2011-02-18 09:17:34 <midnightmagic_> 8? fah! i've been running an evolving drive since 1992!!
1448 2011-02-18 09:17:47 <Diablo-D3> 8 as in ext2 blew up
1449 2011-02-18 09:17:53 <phantomcircuit> files are for pussies
1450 2011-02-18 09:17:53 <midnightmagic_> dissipate: not really..
1451 2011-02-18 09:18:02 <genjix> regularly delete 80% of junk, 10% on net, 10% on external backup + forget about it.
1452 2011-02-18 09:18:02 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: its already a known attack.
1453 2011-02-18 09:18:05 <phantomcircuit> all everything on this system exists entirely in ram
1454 2011-02-18 09:18:07 <phantomcircuit> FOR SPEE!
1455 2011-02-18 09:18:09 <phantomcircuit> D
1456 2011-02-18 09:18:16 <genjix> no files = peace of mind.
1457 2011-02-18 09:18:23 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: people have successfully used data poisoning to recover AES keys
1458 2011-02-18 09:18:40 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: was that the paper you were looking for earlier? was it against luks or a straight AES? what mode?
1459 2011-02-18 09:18:41 <dissipate> data poisoning??
1460 2011-02-18 09:18:50 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic_: dunno
1461 2011-02-18 09:19:03 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: inserting or using known data in the encrypted media
1462 2011-02-18 09:19:06 <dissipate> this is some real ninja voodoo
1463 2011-02-18 09:19:17 <Diablo-D3> cryptography, in general, is voodoo and deep magic
1464 2011-02-18 09:19:19 <ArtForz> errr... no
1465 2011-02-18 09:19:20 <Diablo-D3> what do you expect
1466 2011-02-18 09:19:33 <midnightmagic_> it is a macro! i knew it!
1467 2011-02-18 09:19:38 <ArtForz> data poisoning doesnt recover keys
1468 2011-02-18 09:19:45 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1469 2011-02-18 09:19:50 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no, it makes it easier to recover keys
1470 2011-02-18 09:19:50 <dissipate> are there any ciphers where all bytes change radically on small differences of input?
1471 2011-02-18 09:19:59 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: thats called avalanching
1472 2011-02-18 09:20:00 <ArtForz> errr, no it doesnt
1473 2011-02-18 09:20:09 <genjix> dissipate: xor
1474 2011-02-18 09:20:09 <genjix> :p
1475 2011-02-18 09:20:09 <ArtForz> it allows distingishing attacks and ciphertext injection
1476 2011-02-18 09:20:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: crypto community says otherwise
1477 2011-02-18 09:20:19 <ArtForz> unless your cipher is horribly broken
1478 2011-02-18 09:20:20 bitcoiner has joined
1479 2011-02-18 09:20:29 <genjix> dissipate: disregard... read that opposite to what u said
1480 2011-02-18 09:20:42 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: any secure hash avalanches correctly.
1481 2011-02-18 09:20:44 <midnightmagic_> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/another_new_aes.html
1482 2011-02-18 09:20:47 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: link?
1483 2011-02-18 09:20:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: none
1484 2011-02-18 09:21:01 <Diablo-D3> its been too long since I actually gave a shit
1485 2011-02-18 09:21:22 <dissipate> yeah, that's scary
1486 2011-02-18 09:21:24 <ArtForz> because a chosen-ciphertext allowing key recovery for AES would be pretty big news
1487 2011-02-18 09:21:47 <ArtForz> as in "THE SKY IS FALLING" big news
1488 2011-02-18 09:22:17 <Diablo-D3> you have to know whats in the data first.
1489 2011-02-18 09:22:26 <BlueMatt> a practical attack would have been all over the media
1490 2011-02-18 09:22:28 <ArtForz> doesnt matter
1491 2011-02-18 09:22:36 <Diablo-D3> its not a practical attack
1492 2011-02-18 09:22:41 <Diablo-D3> its actually kind of useless
1493 2011-02-18 09:22:46 <BlueMatt> then whats the big deal?
1494 2011-02-18 09:22:51 <Diablo-D3> most likely, you dont know enough of the data
1495 2011-02-18 09:22:57 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: there isnt one
1496 2011-02-18 09:23:01 <ArtForz> oh, you mean the attack that reduces complexity from 2**256 to 2**251 ?
1497 2011-02-18 09:23:06 <JFK911> This is what is needed to decrypt the proof that WTC was a controlled demolition.
1498 2011-02-18 09:23:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
1499 2011-02-18 09:23:15 <ArtForz> ahhh, that one
1500 2011-02-18 09:23:20 <midnightmagic_> http://eprint.iacr.org/2009/581.pdf and then.. mm.. http://eprint.iacr.org/2010/594.pdf ?
1501 2011-02-18 09:23:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: more data you know, the more complexity it reduces
1502 2011-02-18 09:23:55 <ArtForz> errr... no
1503 2011-02-18 09:23:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: anyhow, explain to dissipate why you cant use AES as a crypto hash by prefixing the output.
1504 2011-02-18 09:24:10 <ArtForz> because it's reversible
1505 2011-02-18 09:24:16 <BlueMatt> that would also have been big news
1506 2011-02-18 09:24:18 <Diablo-D3> hes, and explain to him why this is bad.
1507 2011-02-18 09:24:23 <Diablo-D3> *yes
1508 2011-02-18 09:24:24 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, why? we already went over it. *sigh*
1509 2011-02-18 09:24:43 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: because Im a Scientologist and I believe in UFO fairy tales, weeeeeeeeee
1510 2011-02-18 09:24:55 * Diablo-D3 puts on his Xenu mask and puts on his cape
1511 2011-02-18 09:25:07 <ArtForz> you *can* turn a block cipher into a hash function, there's papers on that
1512 2011-02-18 09:25:16 chuck251 has joined
1513 2011-02-18 09:25:16 <Diablo-D3> Look at me! I killed trillions in the name of the profit!
1514 2011-02-18 09:25:16 <ArtForz> iirc one of the sha3 candidates is just that
1515 2011-02-18 09:25:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, and it involves a mixer and compression function that isnt massive shit
1516 2011-02-18 09:25:40 <ArtForz> yep
1517 2011-02-18 09:25:42 <Diablo-D3> which guess what happens when you bolt those on
1518 2011-02-18 09:25:45 <Diablo-D3> _you have a crypto hash_
1519 2011-02-18 09:25:55 <ArtForz> also, it's usually very inefficient
1520 2011-02-18 09:26:17 <Diablo-D3> and guess what sha256 is! its a crypto hash! it comes preassembled!
1521 2011-02-18 09:26:19 <jgarzik> skein?
1522 2011-02-18 09:26:20 <Diablo-D3> and we know it works!
1523 2011-02-18 09:26:29 <ArtForz> block cipher in a hash wrapper is a lot slower than most "normal" hashing functions
1524 2011-02-18 09:26:43 <ArtForz> well, at least usually...
1525 2011-02-18 09:26:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, what dissipate doesnt get is why we cant use AES
1526 2011-02-18 09:26:46 <dissipate> ArtForz, but possibly more secure, no?
1527 2011-02-18 09:26:51 <ArtForz> err, kinda
1528 2011-02-18 09:27:05 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, as i said, i get it now.
1529 2011-02-18 09:27:06 <ArtForz> iirc you have the same guarantees aas the underlying block function
1530 2011-02-18 09:27:06 <Diablo-D3> I mean, yes, we can just use Whirlpool
1531 2011-02-18 09:27:19 <Diablo-D3> its AES massively mutated into a hash
1532 2011-02-18 09:27:23 <ArtForz> can't be arsed to hunt for the paper now
1533 2011-02-18 09:27:24 <midnightmagic_> less studied, more complex.. meh, it's academic anyway..
1534 2011-02-18 09:27:32 <Diablo-D3> and from what Ive heard, it does work quite well
1535 2011-02-18 09:27:36 <Diablo-D3> but not enough eyeballs have seen it
1536 2011-02-18 09:27:43 <Diablo-D3> so theres no proof its secure.
1537 2011-02-18 09:27:56 <midnightmagic_> no proof anyway, but i know that's what you meant. :)
1538 2011-02-18 09:27:59 <dissipate> there is 'proof' that SHA-256 Is secure?
1539 2011-02-18 09:28:01 <BlueMatt> is there for sha256?
1540 2011-02-18 09:28:07 <ArtForz> no
1541 2011-02-18 09:28:13 <Diablo-D3> for what we need, it only needs to produce uniques, and it needs to distribute well
1542 2011-02-18 09:28:16 <dissipate> i didn't think so
1543 2011-02-18 09:28:24 <BlueMatt> is there for any hash function?
1544 2011-02-18 09:28:26 <Diablo-D3> theres no proof that its absolutely 100% secure
1545 2011-02-18 09:28:39 <ArtForz> no hash can be 100% secure
1546 2011-02-18 09:28:50 <Diablo-D3> you cant prove that without either a) finding that its not secure by actually producing a paper, b) solving all the values.
1547 2011-02-18 09:28:51 <BlueMatt> some symmetric ciphers have been iirc
1548 2011-02-18 09:29:01 <ArtForz> unless it outputs 0 bits
1549 2011-02-18 09:29:05 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3 not true
1550 2011-02-18 09:29:09 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: collides to much ;)
1551 2011-02-18 09:29:13 <ArtForz> yeah
1552 2011-02-18 09:29:22 <Diablo-D3> which fails as a crypto hash
1553 2011-02-18 09:29:24 <ArtForz> but it guarantees that you're not leaking information ;)
1554 2011-02-18 09:29:38 <Diablo-D3> crypto hashes cant collide
1555 2011-02-18 09:29:43 <ArtForz> sure can
1556 2011-02-18 09:29:52 <Diablo-D3> not if you need one that doesnt collide
1557 2011-02-18 09:29:54 <ArtForz> unlikely as hell, but they can do it
1558 2011-02-18 09:30:04 <dissipate> what about those finite state automata machines? i read some actually produce pseudo-random results.
1559 2011-02-18 09:30:12 <ArtForz> if input length > hash length, there WILL be collisions
1560 2011-02-18 09:30:12 <Diablo-D3> generally, if you have known collisions someones going to figure out why that works
1561 2011-02-18 09:30:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well yeah
1562 2011-02-18 09:30:20 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1563 2011-02-18 09:30:22 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, arguably the compression routine increases the attack surface for the purposes of bitcoin
1564 2011-02-18 09:30:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108896 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1983 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 49503.24757952
1565 2011-02-18 09:30:23 <midnightmagic_> ArtForz: if one-way functions exist, then the universal owf is
1566 2011-02-18 09:30:31 <Diablo-D3> obviously you can produce ones with wildly different sized outputs too
1567 2011-02-18 09:30:38 <Diablo-D3> what Im saying is
1568 2011-02-18 09:30:40 <Diablo-D3> for what we do
1569 2011-02-18 09:30:47 <Diablo-D3> if it collides, you're fucked
1570 2011-02-18 09:30:56 <mrb_> I guess what Diablo-D3 means is that when a collision is found, the hash function does not quaify as a cryptographic hash function anymore
1571 2011-02-18 09:30:59 <Diablo-D3> sha256 has been repeatedly attacked, and it keeps chugging along
1572 2011-02-18 09:31:05 <ArtForz> yea
1573 2011-02-18 09:31:16 <JFK911> Hasnt a bunch of work been reduced from sha256?
1574 2011-02-18 09:31:24 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, if that was true there would be practically zero cryptographic hash functions
1575 2011-02-18 09:31:25 <JFK911> Preimage and whatnot
1576 2011-02-18 09:31:29 <Diablo-D3> so, thats proof that its _still_ secure
1577 2011-02-18 09:31:36 <Diablo-D3> its not proof that it will still be secure in the future
1578 2011-02-18 09:31:44 <JFK911> There is enough concern to want SHA-3
1579 2011-02-18 09:31:45 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, you just said before that weaknesses have already been found in some versions of SHA-256
1580 2011-02-18 09:31:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, there's some pretty lame attacks, but they're a start, id put it at 10 years max
1581 2011-02-18 09:31:49 <Diablo-D3> but its proof its secure right this second for useful values of secure
1582 2011-02-18 09:31:55 <ArtForz> but imo the sha2 family doesnt have too much security left
1583 2011-02-18 09:31:56 <BlueMatt> true, has there been a proof that there cannot be a secure hash function?
1584 2011-02-18 09:31:57 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: "versions" that use less than 64 rounds
1585 2011-02-18 09:32:16 <ArtForz> attacks on reduced-round versions are nothing too special
1586 2011-02-18 09:32:24 <midnightmagic_> Diablo-D3: did you insult his mother or something? he seems to be chewing on your femur..
1587 2011-02-18 09:32:24 chuck251 has quit ()
1588 2011-02-18 09:32:25 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: sha256 requires 64 rounds to mix correctly
1589 2011-02-18 09:32:27 <BlueMatt> ArtForz but they can lead to more
1590 2011-02-18 09:32:31 <ArtForz> sure
1591 2011-02-18 09:32:38 <ArtForz> or something totally different can come along
1592 2011-02-18 09:32:44 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: if you use less, you start ending up with data that hasnt touched every single bit
1593 2011-02-18 09:32:50 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: which means your mixer is broken
1594 2011-02-18 09:32:55 <BlueMatt> true, just look at md5 though, the reduced functions led to more practical attacks
1595 2011-02-18 09:32:56 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: 64 was chosen because thats exactly enough.
1596 2011-02-18 09:33:07 <ArtForz> yes, and it took quite a while
1597 2011-02-18 09:33:25 <BlueMatt> true, but btc needs to be secure in the future
1598 2011-02-18 09:33:28 <ArtForz> actually exactly enough + plenty headroom
1599 2011-02-18 09:33:35 <dissipate> md5 still works great at verifying file downloads etc.
1600 2011-02-18 09:33:41 <ArtForz> iirc sha256 exhibits full mixing after 32 rounds
1601 2011-02-18 09:33:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dunno, you'd think 32 would be enough, but it falls apart that low
1602 2011-02-18 09:33:44 <BlueMatt> is there any kind of plan for switching hash functions if sha256 has problems?
1603 2011-02-18 09:33:55 <JFK911> dissipate: a file download may be exactly the thing you want to collide.
1604 2011-02-18 09:33:57 <BlueMatt> dissipate: but for btc it would not work
1605 2011-02-18 09:34:05 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: currently, no
1606 2011-02-18 09:34:06 <JFK911> BlueMatt: NIST standard is in the works or something
1607 2011-02-18 09:34:09 <BlueMatt> and JFK911 is write
1608 2011-02-18 09:34:11 <Diablo-D3> Actually, I wonder if its even 32
1609 2011-02-18 09:34:11 <JFK911> for SHA-3
1610 2011-02-18 09:34:13 <dissipate> BlueMatt, i know that
1611 2011-02-18 09:34:25 <BlueMatt> right*
1612 2011-02-18 09:34:38 <Diablo-D3> you have 32 bytes output, and 64 bytes input
1613 2011-02-18 09:34:38 <dissipate> JFK911, i'm talking about if you download a linux distro and just want to make sure it isn't corrupted.
1614 2011-02-18 09:34:49 <BlueMatt> if you are dlding a file I can collide a virus to create the right md5 and give you a virus instead
1615 2011-02-18 09:35:08 BlueMatt has left ("bye")
1616 2011-02-18 09:35:09 <midnightmagic_> lol: http://twitter.com/#!/brucewagner/status/37903664018489345
1617 2011-02-18 09:35:22 <JFK911> dissipate: ok, that's a rather large download.  And when sha2 is available I would prefer to use it over sha1 or md5 to detect tampering.
1618 2011-02-18 09:35:28 <Diablo-D3> so
1619 2011-02-18 09:36:20 <Diablo-D3> yeah 32 rounds seems to be enough to make it the whole way around once
1620 2011-02-18 09:36:45 <ArtForz> yeah
1621 2011-02-18 09:36:54 <JFK911> MD5 can be considered completely broken, and sha1 weak.
1622 2011-02-18 09:37:07 <ArtForz> yep
1623 2011-02-18 09:37:07 <dissipate> what about bcrypt?
1624 2011-02-18 09:37:11 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: md5 is so broken you can efficiently rainbow table it if you've fucked up salting
1625 2011-02-18 09:37:32 <Diablo-D3> DURR HURR LETS USE BLANK OR COMMON OR WELL KNOWN SALTS
1626 2011-02-18 09:37:35 <Diablo-D3> NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW
1627 2011-02-18 09:37:46 <JFK911> Aha the advent of google as a hashcracker.
1628 2011-02-18 09:37:51 <Diablo-D3> yes
1629 2011-02-18 09:37:54 <Diablo-D3> best use of google EVER
1630 2011-02-18 09:38:05 <dissipate> is bcrypt any good for hashing?
1631 2011-02-18 09:38:36 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, md5 is so broken that preimage attacks are trivial
1632 2011-02-18 09:38:44 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, see forged ssl certs
1633 2011-02-18 09:38:51 <ArtForz> errr... no
1634 2011-02-18 09:39:02 <ArtForz> we have collisions in md5
1635 2011-02-18 09:39:13 <ArtForz> besk known preimage attack is still only theoretical
1636 2011-02-18 09:39:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but that just crippled it
1637 2011-02-18 09:39:18 <ArtForz> *best
1638 2011-02-18 09:39:27 <ArtForz> iirc complexity of 2**120 or so
1639 2011-02-18 09:39:30 <Diablo-D3> the real problem is now you can just brute force it
1640 2011-02-18 09:39:40 <Diablo-D3> 128 bits, and its not mathematically complex
1641 2011-02-18 09:40:00 <ArtForz> brute force what?
1642 2011-02-18 09:40:32 <genjix> MT`AwAy: so we setup spesmilo.geek.nd for wallet backup ... but it hasn't come online yet.
1643 2011-02-18 09:40:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: your mom.
1644 2011-02-18 09:41:00 * Diablo-D3 snickers.
1645 2011-02-18 09:41:02 <ArtForz> again, all we have are practical *collision* attacks
1646 2011-02-18 09:41:09 <ArtForz> collision != preimage
1647 2011-02-18 09:41:19 <Diablo-D3> actually, I dont think anyone said preimage
1648 2011-02-18 09:41:34 <ArtForz> <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, md5 is so broken that preimage attacks are trivial
1649 2011-02-18 09:41:40 <Diablo-D3> oh right
1650 2011-02-18 09:41:44 <Diablo-D3> but no one listens to phantomcircuit
1651 2011-02-18 09:41:51 <ArtForz> with current tech, 2**120 != trivial
1652 2011-02-18 09:41:59 <Diablo-D3> I dunno man
1653 2011-02-18 09:42:09 <Diablo-D3> you probably could have your mexican fab crank out md5 chips
1654 2011-02-18 09:42:09 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, there is at least one instance in which an md5 preimage attack against an ssl certificate was carried out
1655 2011-02-18 09:42:18 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: proof?
1656 2011-02-18 09:42:31 altamic has joined
1657 2011-02-18 09:42:38 <ArtForz> iirc it was a *collision* attack
1658 2011-02-18 09:42:41 <ArtForz> not preimage
1659 2011-02-18 09:43:05 <phantomcircuit> they took a pre existing certificate and created another valid certificate with the same hash
1660 2011-02-18 09:43:06 <Diablo-D3> the SSL hack I know of was a collision attack
1661 2011-02-18 09:43:12 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: thats a collision attack
1662 2011-02-18 09:43:18 <ArtForz> no, that'd be a preimage
1663 2011-02-18 09:43:25 <ArtForz> but thats not what they did
1664 2011-02-18 09:43:38 <phantomcircuit> ohhh
1665 2011-02-18 09:43:42 <phantomcircuit> right my bad
1666 2011-02-18 09:43:53 <Diablo-D3> they produced a cert that was produced the same hash.
1667 2011-02-18 09:44:01 <ArtForz> they created 2 certs that *both* had a block of random garbage
1668 2011-02-18 09:44:16 <Diablo-D3> random garbage is your friend
1669 2011-02-18 09:44:40 <JFK911> real entropy isnt garbage
1670 2011-02-18 09:44:41 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, ok so that's a collision attack
1671 2011-02-18 09:44:54 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: no, but you're rotating the garbage until your hash matches
1672 2011-02-18 09:45:24 <dissipate> i wonder how long SHA-256 will remain secure
1673 2011-02-18 09:45:30 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, the random garbage isn't random
1674 2011-02-18 09:45:32 <JFK911> oh they found two messages that let everything else line up?
1675 2011-02-18 09:45:37 <dissipate> hopefully for the next 50 years at least
1676 2011-02-18 09:45:45 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: for another decade according to the NSA
1677 2011-02-18 09:45:56 <lfm> they found a has that matched a pre-existing cert but they dis not preselect that cert. they found a collide with a SET of pre-existing certs
1678 2011-02-18 09:46:10 <dissipate> do we plan on having bitcoin around for another decade? :O
1679 2011-02-18 09:46:21 <dissipate> or rather longer than a decade
1680 2011-02-18 09:46:31 <Diablo-D3> Despite this warning, on February 6, 2011, members of the internet hacktivist group, Anonymous, hacked into the website and server of the private sector security firm HBGary Federal, which held multiple contracts with the U.S. government, by exploiting MD5 vulnerabilities.[11]
1681 2011-02-18 09:46:34 * Diablo-D3 clicks 11
1682 2011-02-18 09:46:39 <ArtForz> lfm: link?
1683 2011-02-18 09:46:44 <Diablo-D3> fuck it links to ars
1684 2011-02-18 09:46:47 <lfm> dissipate: should we hold our breat?
1685 2011-02-18 09:46:47 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit wikipedia!
1686 2011-02-18 09:46:49 <Diablo-D3> dont link to ars!
1687 2011-02-18 09:46:59 <Diablo-D3> ars is not a security journal!
1688 2011-02-18 09:47:01 <JFK911> What would happen to the btc value if enough FUD hit about the imminent collapse of bitcoin
1689 2011-02-18 09:47:01 <dissipate> lfm, we should start looking for something better.
1690 2011-02-18 09:47:04 <Diablo-D3> its not even a news outlet!
1691 2011-02-18 09:47:21 <dissipate> lfm, i bet there is something better that requires more computation time. sacrifice some efficiency for security.
1692 2011-02-18 09:47:23 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: dude, if sha256, tommorow, was announced to be utterly fucked, THE WORLD ECONOMY WOULD SHIT DOWN
1693 2011-02-18 09:47:23 <lfm> ArtForz: sorry no can do, my memory is hazy, I could easily be wrong
1694 2011-02-18 09:47:24 <Diablo-D3> er
1695 2011-02-18 09:47:25 <Diablo-D3> shut
1696 2011-02-18 09:47:37 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: That article is actually an ok explanation of how the hack went down.  Better than what most journos would write.
1697 2011-02-18 09:47:37 <Diablo-D3> dissipate: btw, you idiot, this is what sha3 is for
1698 2011-02-18 09:47:46 <ArtForz> I know of a bunch of collision attacks on md5 and sha1, not one practical first or second preimage attack
1699 2011-02-18 09:47:47 <ntosme2> JFK911: oh, you mean the backdoor I found buried in the Bitcoin code?
1700 2011-02-18 09:47:52 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: yeah, but Ive already read this and its very light on what I was looking for
1701 2011-02-18 09:48:06 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the problem is the list of collisions are known
1702 2011-02-18 09:48:12 <Diablo-D3> and its a pretty long list
1703 2011-02-18 09:48:14 <lfm> ntosme2: your kidding right
1704 2011-02-18 09:48:27 <ntosme2> am I
1705 2011-02-18 09:48:28 <dissipate> Diablo-D3, wow, you are a true gentleman and a scholar with all those insults.
1706 2011-02-18 09:48:42 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so if you're stupid enough to have anything that matches a known broken output, you've just fucked yourself
1707 2011-02-18 09:48:47 <ArtForz> well, again, colliding md5 is pretty damn trivial
1708 2011-02-18 09:49:57 <Diablo-D3> As luck would have it, the hbgaryfederal.com CMS used MD5. What's worse is that it used MD5 badly: there was no iterative hashing and no salting. The result was that the downloaded passwords were highly susceptible to rainbow table-based attacks, performed using a rainbow table-based password cracking website. And so this is precisely what the attackers did; they used a rainbow table cracking tool to crack the hbgaryfe
1709 2011-02-18 09:49:57 <Diablo-D3> deral.com CMS passwords.
1710 2011-02-18 09:50:11 <Diablo-D3> "password cracking website" == google.
1711 2011-02-18 09:50:17 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1712 2011-02-18 09:50:18 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: yes, so?
1713 2011-02-18 09:50:19 <JFK911> could have been.
1714 2011-02-18 09:50:23 <Diablo-D3> type in hash, recieve bacon
1715 2011-02-18 09:50:35 jeremias_ is now known as jeremias
1716 2011-02-18 09:50:41 <edcba_> anyway md5 is too fast
1717 2011-02-18 09:50:50 <ArtForz> using nonsalted hashes has been known to be a boneheaded move for a few decades
1718 2011-02-18 09:51:02 <edcba_> even without rainbow tables you can use gpu
1719 2011-02-18 09:51:12 <dissipate> ArtForz, but if they get your salt, then what?
1720 2011-02-18 09:51:24 <ArtForz> then they have a salt?
1721 2011-02-18 09:51:28 <Diablo-D3> well
1722 2011-02-18 09:51:31 <edcba_> and you'll need a pretty difficult pass to not having your pass cracked
1723 2011-02-18 09:51:34 foucist has left ()
1724 2011-02-18 09:51:37 <Diablo-D3> your salt shouldnt be known
1725 2011-02-18 09:51:42 <Diablo-D3> and it shouldnt be used elsewhere
1726 2011-02-18 09:51:48 <Diablo-D3> but like
1727 2011-02-18 09:51:54 <Diablo-D3> take all those fucking php website apps
1728 2011-02-18 09:51:57 <Diablo-D3> that salt passwords
1729 2011-02-18 09:52:02 <dissipate> anyone use bcrypt? supposed to significantly slow down rainbow attacks etc.
1730 2011-02-18 09:52:03 <Diablo-D3> none of them setup used once salts
1731 2011-02-18 09:52:19 <ArtForz> ouch
1732 2011-02-18 09:52:33 <ArtForz> yes, thats still plenty stupid
1733 2011-02-18 09:52:34 <Diablo-D3> well, maybe not "none", but its a known issue
1734 2011-02-18 09:52:42 <Diablo-D3> and guess what happens when you use a well known salt?
1735 2011-02-18 09:52:50 <Diablo-D3> a rainbow table exists for it
1736 2011-02-18 09:52:54 <ArtForz> yep
1737 2011-02-18 09:53:05 <Diablo-D3> and you know how many idiots think 2 letter salts are okay?
1738 2011-02-18 09:53:12 <Diablo-D3> rainbow tables exist for all of those too.
1739 2011-02-18 09:54:29 <ArtForz> well, using a straight hash is kinda stupid nowadays
1740 2011-02-18 09:54:51 <JFK911> Some people put their hash in tobacco
1741 2011-02-18 09:54:54 <ArtForz> just use pbkdf2-anything
1742 2011-02-18 09:55:01 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, xD
1743 2011-02-18 09:55:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: bwhahaha
1744 2011-02-18 09:55:18 <ArtForz> with a RANDOM salt
1745 2011-02-18 09:55:21 <MT`AwAy> genjix, spesmilo.geek.gd and not nd
1746 2011-02-18 09:55:22 <Diablo-D3> especially when you crank it up to 10000
1747 2011-02-18 09:55:29 <genjix> ohh
1748 2011-02-18 09:55:34 <MT`AwAy> genjix, (and it was up instantly when you confirmed your order)
1749 2011-02-18 09:55:36 <Diablo-D3> crack it now, fuckers!
1750 2011-02-18 09:56:08 <bitcoiner> what you guys were doing before you found bitcoin ?
1751 2011-02-18 09:56:29 <genjix> working for blender foundation :p
1752 2011-02-18 09:56:29 <dissipate> bitcoiner, crying about losing all my money tied up in 1mdc.
1753 2011-02-18 09:56:30 <lfm> gimps mprimes
1754 2011-02-18 09:57:10 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, once a password has been hashed with pbkdf2 can you increase the number of iterations used on it, or is there a oneway capping operation?
1755 2011-02-18 09:57:38 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: you know how sha256(sha256()) works?
1756 2011-02-18 09:57:45 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: imagine that over 9000 times.
1757 2011-02-18 09:57:52 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, that wasn't my question
1758 2011-02-18 09:58:15 <phantomcircuit> the algorithm could easily be
1759 2011-02-18 09:58:29 <Diablo-D3> you mean after you already produced the hash? probably not.
1760 2011-02-18 09:58:29 <phantomcircuit> sha1(sha256*1000)
1761 2011-02-18 09:58:39 <ArtForz> hmmm
1762 2011-02-18 09:58:52 <lfm> sha256^1000(x)
1763 2011-02-18 09:58:58 <phantomcircuit> in which case once you pick a # of iterations for a password, you cant make it stronger
1764 2011-02-18 09:59:08 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: well, yes you can
1765 2011-02-18 09:59:09 <phantomcircuit> lfm, better notation indeed :P
1766 2011-02-18 09:59:20 <ArtForz> looks like continuing pbkdf2 should be possible
1767 2011-02-18 09:59:36 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, if its litterally foo(foo(infinity))
1768 2011-02-18 09:59:39 <Diablo-D3> it would work
1769 2011-02-18 09:59:46 <Diablo-D3> but I suspect they do some finish work on it or some shit
1770 2011-02-18 09:59:46 <ArtForz> no
1771 2011-02-18 10:00:18 <ArtForz> well, they truncate the output
1772 2011-02-18 10:00:22 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1773 2011-02-18 10:00:28 <Diablo-D3> which means you cant keep running it
1774 2011-02-18 10:00:38 <ArtForz> but thats only if your output length != multiple of your hash length
1775 2011-02-18 10:01:48 <ArtForz> no wait, you can't
1776 2011-02-18 10:01:55 <ArtForz> forgot the xor part
1777 2011-02-18 10:03:01 <ArtForz> output = hmac(pw, salt) ^ hmac(pw, hmac(pw, salt)) ^ hmac(pw, hmac(pw, hmac(pw, salt))) ^ ...
1778 2011-02-18 10:03:32 <Diablo-D3> ooh
1779 2011-02-18 10:03:35 <Diablo-D3> clever
1780 2011-02-18 10:04:48 <ArtForz> yeah, pretty neat
1781 2011-02-18 10:05:52 <comboy> I havent read earlier log comment may be random, but I was thiking abouth this sha of a sha fo a sha ... PoW it has one big issue
1782 2011-02-18 10:06:11 <comboy> you actually have to repeat the work to check if somebody really did it right
1783 2011-02-18 10:06:11 doublec has joined
1784 2011-02-18 10:06:11 doublec has quit (Changing host)
1785 2011-02-18 10:06:11 doublec has joined
1786 2011-02-18 10:06:23 <ArtForz> yep
1787 2011-02-18 10:06:25 <sipa> yo dawg we heard you like hashes so we put a sha in your sha
1788 2011-02-18 10:07:19 <comboy> so only after I realized that I realized that it actualy *must* be some random space exploration, so it will scale nicely always
1789 2011-02-18 10:07:21 <lfm> comboy indeed that is the point of most of it
1790 2011-02-18 10:07:42 <comboy> btw, how ASICs are doing ArtForz? looks like not that bad :>
1791 2011-02-18 10:08:28 <ArtForz> making verification slower by an order of magnitude or so shouldnt cause much issues though
1792 2011-02-18 10:08:50 <lfm> ArtForz: except maybe for pools
1793 2011-02-18 10:09:21 <ArtForz> shouldnt cause much of a problem either
1794 2011-02-18 10:09:41 <lfm> they might have to use diff 10 shares instead of 1
1795 2011-02-18 10:09:48 <phantomcircuit> yeah so in order to make a PBKDF2 stronger you'd have to apply it again
1796 2011-02-18 10:10:12 <ArtForz> with a 32-bit target you only need check 1 result every 4 Ghash
1797 2011-02-18 10:10:35 bossweld has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1798 2011-02-18 10:10:55 <ArtForz> pretty obvious really, hashing and verification slow down by the same factor
1799 2011-02-18 10:10:56 <lfm> ArtForz: I thot slush was running into cpu time shartage already with < 1000 sharers
1800 2011-02-18 10:11:10 <ArtForz> that... shouldnt happen
1801 2011-02-18 10:11:12 dffg has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1802 2011-02-18 10:11:32 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, wat?
1803 2011-02-18 10:11:34 <lfm> ArtForz: verifiying gpu results on a cpu
1804 2011-02-18 10:11:35 wood_ has joined
1805 2011-02-18 10:11:36 <ArtForz> at least not from hash checking
1806 2011-02-18 10:11:39 <ArtForz> at 40Gh/s he has to check ... 10 hashes/second
1807 2011-02-18 10:11:57 <ArtForz> ten. per second.
1808 2011-02-18 10:12:15 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, no i meant you cant simply apply an incrementing function to existing hashes, you have to apply the entire algorithm again
1809 2011-02-18 10:12:33 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, did you mod your raisers in the 4x 5970 + 790fx-gd70 setup?
1810 2011-02-18 10:12:42 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: yea
1811 2011-02-18 10:12:59 <UukGoblin> ok I tried with one modded but still didn't work yesterday
1812 2011-02-18 10:13:10 <UukGoblin> I'll get some more drawing power from psu and see again
1813 2011-02-18 10:13:12 <bitcoiner> whats best program to o c my new 5770 ?
1814 2011-02-18 10:13:32 <lfm> bitcoiner: mswin or linux?
1815 2011-02-18 10:13:41 <bitcoiner> win 7 64
1816 2011-02-18 10:13:44 <ArtForz> each riser has 12V to mobo cut and card gets slot 12V from 5.25" molex
1817 2011-02-18 10:14:12 <UukGoblin> bitcoiner, there was winflash + RBE (radeon bios editor) or something... lfm, is there something on linux?
1818 2011-02-18 10:14:39 <midnightmagic_> ArtForz: huh! I didn't have to mod my risers. Should I expect to see some smoke shortly? :)
1819 2011-02-18 10:14:46 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, ok, I tried with one like that and 3 cards plugged directly to mobo
1820 2011-02-18 10:14:48 <lfm> UukGoblin: aticonfig is all I know of but I think there is some other
1821 2011-02-18 10:14:54 <ArtForz> on win, CCC
1822 2011-02-18 10:15:01 <UukGoblin> oh, well yeah aticonfig will do some basic stuff
1823 2011-02-18 10:15:02 <ArtForz> for simple OCing
1824 2011-02-18 10:15:09 <bitcoiner> riva tuner ?
1825 2011-02-18 10:15:13 <ArtForz> for the more complex stuff, msi afterburner
1826 2011-02-18 10:15:37 <UukGoblin> btw, the pplib commands don't work on my 10.10 driver... should I get a newer one, or is there somethign else that enables them?
1827 2011-02-18 10:15:40 <bitcoiner> aight thanks
1828 2011-02-18 10:15:43 <ArtForz> though most 5770s dont have stuff like software adjustable voltages
1829 2011-02-18 10:15:56 <UukGoblin> and what can I use to get the temps out of the VRMs? :-]
1830 2011-02-18 10:16:00 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: thats.. .weird
1831 2011-02-18 10:16:05 <midnightmagic_> UukGoblin: you might have to aticonfig --od-enable ..?
1832 2011-02-18 10:16:06 <ArtForz> pplib cmds work fine with 10.10 here
1833 2011-02-18 10:16:11 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic_, have it
1834 2011-02-18 10:16:20 <UukGoblin> let me see...
1835 2011-02-18 10:16:46 <ArtForz> wildass guess, something in your fglrx driver is broken
1836 2011-02-18 10:17:21 <ArtForz> btw, what risers are you using?
1837 2011-02-18 10:17:24 <UukGoblin> hrmm ok seems to work now... I could swear they didn't before
1838 2011-02-18 10:17:36 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, the modded one is a simple x1
1839 2011-02-18 10:17:48 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, I was also experimenting with some unmodded x16
1840 2011-02-18 10:17:52 <ArtForz> do the links negotiate as gen1 or gen2 ?
1841 2011-02-18 10:17:57 <UukGoblin> the x16 had some caps in the pcb, the x1 doesn't
1842 2011-02-18 10:17:59 <lfm> UukGoblin: like a lot of ati stuff you prolly have to hold you face just so
1843 2011-02-18 10:18:05 <ArtForz> do the links negotiate as gen1 or gen2 ?
1844 2011-02-18 10:18:15 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, how can I check that? dunno :-[
1845 2011-02-18 10:18:17 <ArtForz> gen2 with most risers = fun failfest
1846 2011-02-18 10:18:25 <ArtForz> iirc lspci -vv as root
1847 2011-02-18 10:19:35 <UukGoblin> hrm, looks like Gen 2...
1848 2011-02-18 10:19:55 <ArtForz> you have to look at the upstream port of the PLX bridge for 5970s
1849 2011-02-18 10:20:32 <ArtForz> each bridge shows up as 3 pci devices
1850 2011-02-18 10:20:59 <UukGoblin> lspci -vv | grep Gen # <- that shows everything as Gen 2
1851 2011-02-18 10:21:12 <ArtForz> hmm... that might be a problem
1852 2011-02-18 10:21:36 <UukGoblin> hm.
1853 2011-02-18 10:21:46 <UukGoblin> well, works with 3 cards...
1854 2011-02-18 10:21:59 <ArtForz> is the card in the last slot causing problems?
1855 2011-02-18 10:22:09 <UukGoblin> yes, I believe so
1856 2011-02-18 10:22:18 <ArtForz> because that slot really doesnt like bad risers from my experience
1857 2011-02-18 10:22:20 <UukGoblin> the compilation fails on the first chip of the last card
1858 2011-02-18 10:22:41 <UukGoblin> I have a card in it in a 3x 5970 setup in a raiser and it usually works
1859 2011-02-18 10:22:48 <UukGoblin> (in a 16x raiser)
1860 2011-02-18 10:23:00 <ArtForz> btw, forcing link speed is "somewhat" easy
1861 2011-02-18 10:23:32 <UukGoblin> how how how? :-)
1862 2011-02-18 10:23:48 <UukGoblin> oh hang on you mean gen or x?
1863 2011-02-18 10:23:53 <ArtForz> gen
1864 2011-02-18 10:24:00 <ArtForz> for the RD790 pci bridge device thats upstream, setpci -v -s XX:YY.0 CAP_EXP+30.b=01:03
1865 2011-02-18 10:24:15 <ArtForz> where XX:YY = PCI bus id
1866 2011-02-18 10:24:21 <UukGoblin> mkay...
1867 2011-02-18 10:24:23 <ArtForz> usually 00:0c.0 for last slot
1868 2011-02-18 10:24:34 <UukGoblin> awesome, I'll check that
1869 2011-02-18 10:24:50 <UukGoblin> once I'm back home, which will be in about 9 hours
1870 2011-02-18 10:25:03 <ArtForz> lspci -tv shows the bus layout pretty well
1871 2011-02-18 10:25:35 TD_ has joined
1872 2011-02-18 10:26:09 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/Ri2GymiL
1873 2011-02-18 10:26:19 altamic has joined
1874 2011-02-18 10:26:50 <ArtForz> in that case the devices that can get setPCIed to force gen1 are 00:02.0 00:03.0 00:0b.0 and 00:0c.0
1875 2011-02-18 10:26:56 * UukGoblin nods
1876 2011-02-18 10:27:25 <ArtForz> and yes, that setpci incantation is deep magic
1877 2011-02-18 10:27:41 <UukGoblin> not 04.0 then
1878 2011-02-18 10:28:12 <UukGoblin> ah no it probably goes rightwards
1879 2011-02-18 10:28:17 <ArtForz> yea
1880 2011-02-18 10:28:40 <ArtForz> basically 00:02.0 03.0 0b.0 and 0c.0 are the slot-facing ports on the northbridge
1881 2011-02-18 10:29:08 <UukGoblin> most of the time with 4x 5970s though, only 3 would show up in lspci
1882 2011-02-18 10:29:23 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1883 2011-02-18 10:29:24 <UukGoblin> I did get all 4 to show up a few times (but the kernel didn't compile then)
1884 2011-02-18 10:29:43 <ArtForz> that sounds like bad riser and/or slot power issues
1885 2011-02-18 10:30:02 <UukGoblin> and that --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0' works for DISPLAY=:0 or :0.0, but not :0.1
1886 2011-02-18 10:30:11 <ArtForz> never works for :0.1
1887 2011-02-18 10:30:26 <ArtForz> :0.1 is slave GPU of first card, it doesnt HAVE a fan controller
1888 2011-02-18 10:30:35 <UukGoblin> aaah! stupid me!
1889 2011-02-18 10:30:41 <UukGoblin> so obvious
1890 2011-02-18 10:30:48 <UukGoblin> thanks a lot :-)
1891 2011-02-18 10:33:32 tower is now known as towerX
1892 2011-02-18 10:36:05 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1893 2011-02-18 10:36:58 <UukGoblin> :-]
1894 2011-02-18 10:38:44 <ntosme2> ArtForz: does that mean two discrete cards can't be :0.0 and :0.1? I haven't quite figured out the naming scheme...
1895 2011-02-18 10:39:16 <midnightmagic_> ntosme2: they're detected in-order, so I'm pretty sure that's a no
1896 2011-02-18 10:39:18 <ntosme2> or are you referring to just the dual-gpu case
1897 2011-02-18 10:39:31 <ArtForz> just dual-gpu
1898 2011-02-18 10:39:37 <ntosme2> ok
1899 2011-02-18 10:39:47 <ArtForz> cards are usually ordered in the order they appear in slots
1900 2011-02-18 10:40:28 <ArtForz> so 5970+5870+5970+5870 for example has fan controllers on .0 .2 .3 .5
1901 2011-02-18 10:40:53 <ntosme2> makes sense
1902 2011-02-18 10:42:53 <ntosme2> in the case of poclbm, running instances with DISPLAY=:0.0 and DISPLAY=:0.1 won't run on separate cards
1903 2011-02-18 10:42:57 altamic has joined
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1906 2011-02-18 10:42:58 <ntosme2> is there a workaround?
1907 2011-02-18 10:43:12 <ArtForz> ummm, it should work
1908 2011-02-18 10:43:18 <midnightmagic_> ntosme2: huh? that works fine for me.
1909 2011-02-18 10:43:22 <ntosme2> should would be nice
1910 2011-02-18 10:43:24 <Diablo-D3> it works fine
1911 2011-02-18 10:43:29 <Diablo-D3> just dont use it in combination with -d
1912 2011-02-18 10:43:34 <Diablo-D3> one or the other, not both
1913 2011-02-18 10:43:49 <midnightmagic_> i have to use -d so it doesn't bug me about the CPU
1914 2011-02-18 10:43:51 <ntosme2> eh? it requires -d
1915 2011-02-18 10:44:03 <Diablo-D3> then m0 needs to learn how to code.
1916 2011-02-18 10:44:03 <ntosme2> I use -d0 for both
1917 2011-02-18 10:44:32 <midnightmagic_> huh, i have to use -d 1..  -d 0 is my CPU.
1918 2011-02-18 10:44:41 <Diablo-D3> -d whatever isnt your cpu
1919 2011-02-18 10:44:49 <ntosme2> midnightmagic_: weird
1920 2011-02-18 10:44:53 <midnightmagic_> sure acts like it.
1921 2011-02-18 10:45:36 <midnightmagic_> -d is the platform; No device specified or device not found, use -d to specify one of the following [0]     AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor [1]     Cypress
1922 2011-02-18 10:46:03 <midnightmagic_> plus it's about as slow as a CPU when i use -d 0 and no other poclbm are running.
1923 2011-02-18 10:48:21 <doublec> I assume 0 is the driver compiling opencl into x86 code
1924 2011-02-18 10:49:19 <jeremias> is there any bitcoin iphone apps
1925 2011-02-18 10:49:22 <doublec> I'd be interested to know how it compares to 4way and cryptopp
1926 2011-02-18 10:49:46 <doublec> jeremias: not that I know of
1927 2011-02-18 10:50:54 <jeremias> i was thinking about developing one, just wondering how big demand there would be
1928 2011-02-18 10:50:59 <jeremias> pretty small niche i guess
1929 2011-02-18 10:51:36 <doublec> i think it'd be pretty popular
1930 2011-02-18 10:51:44 <doublec> lots of people have asked for an android one
1931 2011-02-18 10:51:51 <doublec> there's a pretty big bounty for it
1932 2011-02-18 10:51:52 <lfm> i bet apple would reject it from the store
1933 2011-02-18 10:52:04 <jeremias> hmm
1934 2011-02-18 10:52:11 <jeremias> yeah, that is one problem
1935 2011-02-18 10:52:23 <sipa> probably the app will be required to send 30% of done bitcoin transactions to apple?
1936 2011-02-18 10:52:23 <jeremias> fucking apple
1937 2011-02-18 10:52:28 <jeremias> lol
1938 2011-02-18 10:52:38 <doublec> if it's an app that uses json-rpc to talk to a remote bitcoin instance I don't see why they'd reject it
1939 2011-02-18 10:52:48 <jeremias> but apple allows banking applications
1940 2011-02-18 10:53:01 <doublec> if it's an actual bitcoin client then you'd get stuck with their multitasking restrictions
1941 2011-02-18 10:53:17 <jeremias> no sense to make actual bitcoin client
1942 2011-02-18 10:53:28 <doublec> and it could be argued that bitcoin runs scripts downloaded from the net which is against the tos
1943 2011-02-18 10:53:29 <jeremias> just simple jswon-rpc
1944 2011-02-18 10:53:38 <doublec> not that apple would know that
1945 2011-02-18 10:54:05 <sipa> and don't advertise it as something that you can buy porn with
1946 2011-02-18 10:54:16 <jeremias> and maybe you could read bitcoin addresses from QR code
1947 2011-02-18 10:54:20 <doublec> slush's pool has lost about 20Ghash/s over the last 20 minutes. weird.
1948 2011-02-18 10:54:29 kryptonite7491 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1949 2011-02-18 10:55:56 <ntosme2> that's 16.6Mhash/s/s!
1950 2011-02-18 10:56:21 <doublec> hehe
1951 2011-02-18 10:56:47 <doublec> maybe cash4coins uses the pool and they've shut down
1952 2011-02-18 10:56:56 rli has joined
1953 2011-02-18 10:57:17 <doublec> or compute4coins or whatever they're called
1954 2011-02-18 10:59:33 <tcatm> jeremias: you could create a webview with my js-remote and add ZXing support
1955 2011-02-18 11:02:22 <doublec> good idea. that'd be a quick way to a phone client.
1956 2011-02-18 11:02:59 <tcatm> it should already work on the iPhone, there's just no qr code scanning support :/
1957 2011-02-18 11:11:11 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1958 2011-02-18 11:13:11 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1959 2011-02-18 11:13:13 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1960 2011-02-18 11:13:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108914 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1965 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53566.41714164
1961 2011-02-18 11:14:56 ntosme2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1962 2011-02-18 11:18:12 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
1963 2011-02-18 11:18:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108915 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1964 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 29 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53449.09165577
1964 2011-02-18 11:18:25 <cosurgi> omfg.
1965 2011-02-18 11:18:39 prax has joined
1966 2011-02-18 11:18:42 <cosurgi> they all waited for start of next difficulty.
1967 2011-02-18 11:18:49 <ArtForz> not really
1968 2011-02-18 11:19:11 <cosurgi> why?
1969 2011-02-18 11:19:18 <ArtForz> we've been doing > 300Gh/s towards the end of 25997
1970 2011-02-18 11:19:39 <cosurgi> right.
1971 2011-02-18 11:20:04 <echelon> having trouble with mybitcoin.com -__-
1972 2011-02-18 11:20:05 <ArtForz> probably just a bunch of fast blocks skewing the result
1973 2011-02-18 11:20:12 <cosurgi> that's what I've been saying that the method for predicting next difficulty, should take into account first derivative, using e.g. finite difference method.
1974 2011-02-18 11:20:27 <ArtForz> yea
1975 2011-02-18 11:21:14 ntosme2 has joined
1976 2011-02-18 11:21:28 <UukGoblin> right, so you basically need gpu-z to read off the VRM temps
1977 2011-02-18 11:21:29 <ArtForz> though if this growth continues, ~55k is a good guess
1978 2011-02-18 11:21:34 <ArtForz> yep
1979 2011-02-18 11:22:00 <ArtForz> or rivatuner with the volterra VRM plugin
1980 2011-02-18 11:22:02 <UukGoblin> there's gotta be a way to port it to linux ;-)
1981 2011-02-18 11:22:07 <ArtForz> yes
1982 2011-02-18 11:22:20 <ArtForz> the rivatuner plugin source is public
1983 2011-02-18 11:22:27 <UukGoblin> I was trying to find a reference for this pplib magic and no luck
1984 2011-02-18 11:22:39 <ArtForz> the only tricky part is ... you have to directly bitbang registers on the GPU to talk to that i2c bus
1985 2011-02-18 11:22:42 <UukGoblin> was also trying to look up documentation to these CAP_REG thingies, also hard
1986 2011-02-18 11:22:58 <UukGoblin> 'bitbang'?
1987 2011-02-18 11:23:01 <ArtForz> yes
1988 2011-02-18 11:23:07 <Diablo-D3> sorta like fingerbang, but with bits
1989 2011-02-18 11:23:34 <UukGoblin> oh, right
1990 2011-02-18 11:24:03 <UukGoblin> set the high and low states myself, from software
1991 2011-02-18 11:24:09 <ArtForz> yep
1992 2011-02-18 11:24:37 <ArtForz> btw, if growth continues at this rate, 55k actually is a decent guess for next diff
1993 2011-02-18 11:24:39 <UukGoblin> nothing that a decent for() loop can't handle, right? ;-)
1994 2011-02-18 11:25:00 <ArtForz> loop with a bunch of udelay()s
1995 2011-02-18 11:25:35 <ArtForz> btw, easiest "victim" to figure out how to talk to the VRM i2c bus, AMD VoltageTool
1996 2011-02-18 11:27:01 <ArtForz> it uses a pretty simple driver to access hardware, and makes all these calls from one function
1997 2011-02-18 11:27:21 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1998 2011-02-18 11:27:28 <UukGoblin> google is so useless for that stuff...
1999 2011-02-18 11:27:31 <ArtForz> just hook that and log timing
2000 2011-02-18 11:28:01 <ArtForz> having the R7xx register set spec and i2c protocol spec handy also helps
2001 2011-02-18 11:28:21 <ArtForz> HD5xxx isn't too different from r7xx for this stuff
2002 2011-02-18 11:28:35 <UukGoblin> mhm
2003 2011-02-18 11:29:36 <UukGoblin> I can't either find AMD VoltageTool nor the rivatuner plugin :-[
2004 2011-02-18 11:29:55 <UukGoblin> 'amd voltagetool' only gives 9 results on google
2005 2011-02-18 11:31:06 <ArtForz> should be that one: http://www.x-drivers.com/catalog/tweaking/video_cards/companies/ati/models/hd_5970_overvoltage_utility/14621.html
2006 2011-02-18 11:31:31 <ArtForz> AMd pulled it, so it's a bit tricky to find
2007 2011-02-18 11:32:03 <ArtForz> here:
2008 2011-02-18 11:32:05 <ArtForz> http://downloads.guru3d.com/ATI-Overvolt-Tool-for-R5970-download-2434.html
2009 2011-02-18 11:32:26 <ArtForz> awww, pulled from there as well
2010 2011-02-18 11:32:45 <ArtForz> yeah, that x-drivers one is the same thing
2011 2011-02-18 11:33:22 <UukGoblin> ok, getting it from x-drivers
2012 2011-02-18 11:33:52 altamic has joined
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2014 2011-02-18 11:33:52 altamic has joined
2015 2011-02-18 11:34:01 <ArtForz> file sha1sums match the one I DLed from guru3d a few months ago
2016 2011-02-18 11:34:18 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, is that http://www.x.org/docs/AMD/R6xx_3D_Registers.pdf the r7xx reference you mean? It's a "Radeon R6xx/R7xx 3D Register Reference Guide", but I can't find any 'temperature' in there
2017 2011-02-18 11:34:31 <UukGoblin> or is it about accessing the registers in general?
2018 2011-02-18 11:35:19 <ArtForz> sec
2019 2011-02-18 11:35:32 * UukGoblin hasn't done much stuff like that ;-(
2020 2011-02-18 11:38:29 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021 2011-02-18 11:39:11 <ArtForz> nope
2022 2011-02-18 11:40:02 <UukGoblin> nvmd, looks way too hard for me anyway
2023 2011-02-18 11:41:42 <ArtForz> check out the M67 doc
2024 2011-02-18 11:42:58 bk128 has joined
2025 2011-02-18 11:43:06 <ArtForz> the generic_i2c stuff, 5xxx still works the same way
2026 2011-02-18 11:43:30 BlueMatt has joined
2027 2011-02-18 11:43:52 mtgox has joined
2028 2011-02-18 11:44:33 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinanresen
2029 2011-02-18 11:44:33 <gribble> I have not seen gavinanresen.
2030 2011-02-18 11:45:06 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
2031 2011-02-18 11:45:07 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 11 hours, 14 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> foucist:  yes, hash calculation is a double SHA256 on the block header that gives a 256-bit hash.
2032 2011-02-18 11:45:08 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, hrm, M67 seems to be either a state highway, a grenade, a rifle, a submachine gun or a star cluster...
2033 2011-02-18 11:45:29 <ArtForz> whoos, M76
2034 2011-02-18 11:45:31 <ArtForz> http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/42590_m76_rrg_1.01o.pdf
2035 2011-02-18 11:45:52 <UukGoblin> ah, that's more like it :-]
2036 2011-02-18 11:46:27 <UukGoblin> although wikipedia has similar entries for M76, but the pdf link is very useful :-)
2037 2011-02-18 11:47:01 altamic has joined
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2040 2011-02-18 11:47:38 <UukGoblin> ok, so it has some i2c register stuff in it
2041 2011-02-18 11:51:31 <UukGoblin> so the plan is 1. figure out how to talk to the ATI chip, 2. use the i2c registers and hope they're the same as in M76 to talk to volterra VRM, 3. use volterra VRM i2c to get the temps
2042 2011-02-18 11:51:39 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2043 2011-02-18 11:51:47 <UukGoblin> right? :-]
2044 2011-02-18 11:51:59 <ArtForz> yep
2045 2011-02-18 11:52:31 <UukGoblin> I wonder how I choose which VRM I want to talk to ;-]
2046 2011-02-18 11:52:49 <ArtForz> erm... by i2c address
2047 2011-02-18 11:53:50 <ArtForz> on 5970 each GPU controls its own core VRM, 1st GPU also controls mem and aux VRMs
2048 2011-02-18 11:55:30 <UukGoblin> so probably need to poll for the addresses first
2049 2011-02-18 11:55:36 <UukGoblin> or just know them
2050 2011-02-18 11:56:02 * UukGoblin looks up some i2c docs
2051 2011-02-18 11:58:13 <UukGoblin> and which volterra VRMs does a 5970 have? I can probably look it up below the cooler
2052 2011-02-18 11:59:54 <ArtForz> GIYF
2053 2011-02-18 12:00:46 <UukGoblin> yup ;-]
2054 2011-02-18 12:02:19 altamic has joined
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2058 2011-02-18 12:04:52 <UukGoblin> VT1157SFs
2059 2011-02-18 12:06:31 <ArtForz> thats the DrMOS chips themselves
2060 2011-02-18 12:07:01 <ArtForz> controllers are VT1165
2061 2011-02-18 12:07:24 <UukGoblin> thanks :-)
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2069 2011-02-18 12:21:40 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
2070 2011-02-18 12:21:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108920 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1959 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 3 hours, 14 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 49831.78354295
2071 2011-02-18 12:22:15 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt
2072 2011-02-18 12:23:37 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 110000
2073 2011-02-18 12:23:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 110000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 26 minutes, and 22 seconds
2074 2011-02-18 12:24:30 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2075 2011-02-18 12:25:15 <bk128> ArtForz: going to sell your 5970's when you get your next batch of chips?
2076 2011-02-18 12:25:32 <bk128> or I guess it's still profitable to run them.  if you can stand the heat and noise :)
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2080 2011-02-18 12:33:08 <lfm> it winter, the heat is welcome
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2087 2011-02-18 12:38:53 <renovatio34> hi how I compile the extensions. cu on window to run with my graphics card to load module CUDA?
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2094 2011-02-18 12:44:00 <davex__> ;;bc,stats
2095 2011-02-18 12:44:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108923 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1956 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 1 hour, 47 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 50046.04761183
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2101 2011-02-18 13:09:41 <echelon> mybitcoin still not showing my tx
2102 2011-02-18 13:12:18 renovatio34 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2103 2011-02-18 13:12:35 <KBme> it takes a while
2104 2011-02-18 13:12:41 <KBme> about a day
2105 2011-02-18 13:13:38 <echelon> i've used it many times before, and it usually takes like 15min
2106 2011-02-18 13:16:06 <ArtForz> = your tx probably didnt make it into a block, iirc client waits 1 block + 5-30 min before resending
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2110 2011-02-18 13:21:07 <echelon> ArtForz, it's been over 10 hours
2111 2011-02-18 13:21:17 <ArtForz> okay, thats.. weird
2112 2011-02-18 13:22:31 <echelon> and mybitcoin.com operator never seems to reply to emails
2113 2011-02-18 13:24:45 <KBme> why would you want someone to handle your bitcoins?
2114 2011-02-18 13:27:28 <genjix> this is why, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB311LThWMg&feature=related
2115 2011-02-18 13:27:31 <UukGoblin> echelon, you can see if your transaction made it into a block using blockexplorer.com
2116 2011-02-18 13:27:48 <echelon> i checked
2117 2011-02-18 13:27:59 <echelon> http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000016a9855f8f0c16c31b413e3d61d880829c13b87f794ac5fb16852
2118 2011-02-18 13:28:33 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2119 2011-02-18 13:28:44 <echelon> err
2120 2011-02-18 13:29:11 <echelon> yeah, it's there
2121 2011-02-18 13:29:49 <UukGoblin> so if you sent it to the correct address, mybitcoins must have received it...
2122 2011-02-18 13:30:56 <echelon> ya, maybe their bitcoin monitor thingy malfunctioned when it was supposed to update my balance
2123 2011-02-18 13:31:47 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, --pplib-cmd 'get activity' can read VDDC... it's... close... ;-S
2124 2011-02-18 13:32:47 BlueMatt has joined
2125 2011-02-18 13:32:49 <ArtForz> I dont think it reads actual VDDC
2126 2011-02-18 13:33:05 <echelon> hmm?
2127 2011-02-18 13:33:07 <UukGoblin> yeah, probably like with fans... it reads what it thinks it should be
2128 2011-02-18 13:33:21 <ArtForz> yeah, it reads what the power state table in BIOS says
2129 2011-02-18 13:33:24 <UukGoblin> (if I disconnect a fan it still thinks it's at 29%)
2130 2011-02-18 13:34:14 <ArtForz> too lazy to check, but thats my guess
2131 2011-02-18 13:34:22 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
2132 2011-02-18 13:34:22 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 13 hours, 3 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> foucist:  yes, hash calculation is a double SHA256 on the block header that gives a 256-bit hash.
2133 2011-02-18 13:34:32 <UukGoblin> yeah, I guess that too
2134 2011-02-18 13:34:40 <ArtForz> remember you have the voltages in clock/voltage tab of RBE *and* the VRM reg settings
2135 2011-02-18 13:34:58 <ArtForz> the voltages in clock/voltage are just there for show pretty much
2136 2011-02-18 13:35:23 <ArtForz> it simply selects one of the 4 coltages set by the VRM regs
2137 2011-02-18 13:37:24 <bk128> ArtForz: what motherboards are you using for the 4 pci-e card miners?
2138 2011-02-18 13:37:32 <ArtForz> MSI 790FX-GD70
2139 2011-02-18 13:37:41 <bk128> is that still probably the best one?
2140 2011-02-18 13:38:00 <ArtForz> probably not
2141 2011-02-18 13:39:06 <bk128> ok.  and do you wire the 12v on the pci-e connector directly to the PSU on the cards with risers?
2142 2011-02-18 13:39:09 <BlueMatt> evga sr2? (nvidia, but you can just dl the hacked drivers)
2143 2011-02-18 13:39:14 <bk128> or just have them pull it from the motherboard
2144 2011-02-18 13:39:49 <ArtForz> risers are connected to PSU, cards without risers are on mobo
2145 2011-02-18 13:39:59 <bk128> ok.
2146 2011-02-18 13:40:52 <bk128> do all the slots need to be 16x or do they work in 4x?
2147 2011-02-18 13:41:12 <UukGoblin> they work even on x1
2148 2011-02-18 13:41:12 <bk128> or 8x
2149 2011-02-18 13:41:16 <bk128> wow
2150 2011-02-18 13:41:24 <BlueMatt> btc is fine with a low transfer speed
2151 2011-02-18 13:41:27 <ArtForz> yep, they work in x1
2152 2011-02-18 13:41:33 <bk128> do you make adapters then?
2153 2011-02-18 13:41:39 <BlueMatt> though I'd like to see a benchmark in khash/s
2154 2011-02-18 13:41:44 <ArtForz> small speed difference, but <1%
2155 2011-02-18 13:41:58 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, very hard to notice as the khash fluctuates too much on its own
2156 2011-02-18 13:42:13 <BlueMatt> so, tiny difference.
2157 2011-02-18 13:42:16 <UukGoblin> yeah
2158 2011-02-18 13:42:19 <bk128> how long can a riser ribbon cable be before you get glitches?
2159 2011-02-18 13:42:40 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2160 2011-02-18 13:42:51 <ArtForz> for gen2... not long
2161 2011-02-18 13:43:13 <bk128> are the pcb ones better?
2162 2011-02-18 13:43:15 <ArtForz> with a bad cable 6" is already pushing it
2163 2011-02-18 13:43:25 <bk128> or can you go longer with 1x?
2164 2011-02-18 13:43:41 <UukGoblin> this "gen2" means basically the same as "PCI Express 2.0", right?
2165 2011-02-18 13:43:42 <ArtForz> with a really bad cable gen2 is flat out impossible
2166 2011-02-18 13:43:44 <ArtForz> yea
2167 2011-02-18 13:44:05 <BlueMatt> no its same speed, just different number of cables (though xtalk might come into it) and transfer lanes
2168 2011-02-18 13:44:09 <ArtForz> gen1 runs at 2.5gbit/s/lane, gen2 at 5
2169 2011-02-18 13:44:15 <BlueMatt> gen2 is a higher speed
2170 2011-02-18 13:44:25 <bk128> is gen1 a slower bus speed?  does it automatically switch if there's too much noise?
2171 2011-02-18 13:44:32 <ArtForz> x1 is 1 lane, x16 16 lanes (duh)
2172 2011-02-18 13:44:42 <bk128> sorry, I meant frequency
2173 2011-02-18 13:44:49 <ArtForz> theoretically, yes, it automagically falls back
2174 2011-02-18 13:44:50 <bk128> wait, it's the same
2175 2011-02-18 13:44:56 <ArtForz> in practice... not really
2176 2011-02-18 13:45:04 <bk128> any way to force it?
2177 2011-02-18 13:45:11 <ArtForz> link width, no
2178 2011-02-18 13:45:15 <ArtForz> link speed, yes
2179 2011-02-18 13:45:27 <BlueMatt> link width yes, just tape the pins at the outside
2180 2011-02-18 13:45:27 <UukGoblin> 101652 < ArtForz> for the RD790 pci bridge device thats upstream, setpci -v -s  XX:YY.0 CAP_EXP+30.b=01:03
2181 2011-02-18 13:45:42 <UukGoblin> where XX:YY.0 is the PCI number ;-]
2182 2011-02-18 13:45:50 * UukGoblin just asked that few hours ago ;-]
2183 2011-02-18 13:46:00 <bk128> BlueMatt: don't you need to provide 12v to those pins if you're putting it in a x1 slot?
2184 2011-02-18 13:46:01 <UukGoblin> we should get a FAQ on that shit or something, lol
2185 2011-02-18 13:46:07 <ArtForz> bk128: no
2186 2011-02-18 13:46:15 <ArtForz> power is all on the first bunch of pins
2187 2011-02-18 13:46:19 <bk128> wow
2188 2011-02-18 13:46:49 <bk128> I should stop asking dumb questions and go read docs.  :)
2189 2011-02-18 13:46:52 <ArtForz> the main part is just data lanes, grounds and a bunch of presence detect lines
2190 2011-02-18 13:47:07 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, argh.. btw... only the +12Vs matter, right? Is the consumption on 3.3V negligible?
2191 2011-02-18 13:47:33 <ArtForz> only 12V
2192 2011-02-18 13:47:37 mmarker has joined
2193 2011-02-18 13:47:54 <UukGoblin> good
2194 2011-02-18 13:49:40 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
2195 2011-02-18 13:50:06 m0mchil has joined
2196 2011-02-18 13:50:22 <mmarker> Morning.
2197 2011-02-18 13:50:49 <BlueMatt> Hi m0mchil
2198 2011-02-18 13:55:48 <bk128> ArtForz: just want to double check , are these the fans you used? http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1508657-fan-dc-axial-12v-80x38-9000rpm-qfr0812de-f00.html
2199 2011-02-18 13:56:08 <bk128> do you remember what thermal diodes you used?  how are they different from thermistors?
2200 2011-02-18 13:56:21 <bk128> do you wire each one to an adc pin on the avr?
2201 2011-02-18 13:56:54 gasteve has joined
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2203 2011-02-18 13:57:38 genjix has quit (Changing host)
2204 2011-02-18 13:57:38 genjix has joined
2205 2011-02-18 13:58:09 chromicant has joined
2206 2011-02-18 13:58:35 <UukGoblin> I'd probably use a multiplexer of some sort
2207 2011-02-18 13:58:57 <chromicant> Hmm. Quick Q about the p2p network. If I transfer some coins from A to B, something goes out over the wire right then and there, but doesn't start becoming official until the block that's being worked on is solved, correct?
2208 2011-02-18 13:59:14 chromicant is now known as mmarker
2209 2011-02-18 13:59:14 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2210 2011-02-18 13:59:32 <UukGoblin> mmarker, kinda, yeah
2211 2011-02-18 13:59:48 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2212 2011-02-18 14:00:14 altamic has joined
2213 2011-02-18 14:00:30 <bk128> UukGoblin: avr's usually have an 8 pin port with a mux inside that connects to a SAR adc I think
2214 2011-02-18 14:00:42 <mmarker> Uuk: reason I ask is I'm writing a more native bitcoin client for Android, so either polling or sitting constantly on the p2p network is a dumb idea. Trying to use the C2DM of 2.2+ to send notifications to the phone to check for transactions.
2215 2011-02-18 14:01:01 <UukGoblin> bk128, if 8 ports are enough that's good ;-]
2216 2011-02-18 14:01:19 <UukGoblin> with a 100 thingies to monitor...
2217 2011-02-18 14:01:21 <mmarker> and a little server side code that goes "LOOK, my public key was seen, let's send the info to the client"
2218 2011-02-18 14:01:33 <bk128> 1 port 8 pins :)  and you just use separate AVR's for each box
2219 2011-02-18 14:02:03 <mmarker> Uhoh, I hear AVR. This never leads to anything good :D
2220 2011-02-18 14:02:08 <bk128> 1 avr monitors 4 cards, and controls the fan speed based on the hottest one.  that's what ArtForz  does I think
2221 2011-02-18 14:02:29 <UukGoblin> ah, ok then
2222 2011-02-18 14:02:43 rli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2223 2011-02-18 14:02:43 <mmarker> Too bad Atmel's SHA256 hardware can't be repurposed for our use :\
2224 2011-02-18 14:03:12 <ArtForz> bk128: yeah, thats the fans, thermal diodes were kty83, simple resistive divider and fed to atmega A/D
2225 2011-02-18 14:03:15 <UukGoblin> mmarker, notifications to check for transactions?
2226 2011-02-18 14:03:36 <bk128> how many fans did you put on each box?
2227 2011-02-18 14:03:53 <ArtForz> 5
2228 2011-02-18 14:03:55 <mmarker> In short, yea. Basically a push, so you don't kill the phone polling
2229 2011-02-18 14:04:02 rli has joined
2230 2011-02-18 14:04:06 <mmarker> Sadly, the service is still "labs quality beta"
2231 2011-02-18 14:04:10 <UukGoblin> mmarker, I don't exactly get it
2232 2011-02-18 14:04:16 <mmarker> which means I need to kiss up some more to Google
2233 2011-02-18 14:04:31 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, oh and btw, I've heard you got 6-8 of the ASICs working?
2234 2011-02-18 14:04:38 <ArtForz> 16 now
2235 2011-02-18 14:04:45 <ArtForz> hopefully today I'll get that to 32
2236 2011-02-18 14:04:45 <mmarker> Uuk: Ok. Let's say you have a bitcoind process running on some server somewhere.
2237 2011-02-18 14:04:58 <mmarker> You want to have a mobile payment app.
2238 2011-02-18 14:05:02 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, oh, interestingly round number
2239 2011-02-18 14:05:10 <ArtForz> each 8-chip module is 200x94x38mm, stacked 2 high, 2 wide in a 2U
2240 2011-02-18 14:05:23 <UukGoblin> ah.
2241 2011-02-18 14:05:31 <ArtForz> = at 32 I'll have the first complete 2U
2242 2011-02-18 14:05:37 <mmarker> So, you do what you need to do to initiate the transaction (send a message to the bitcoind server)
2243 2011-02-18 14:05:46 <UukGoblin> mmarker, ok. ConnectBot. :-]
2244 2011-02-18 14:06:10 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, neat
2245 2011-02-18 14:06:15 <mmarker> Now, as the one who is paying, I want my native app to go "yup, your transaction went through"
2246 2011-02-18 14:06:18 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, you're planning on selling them later?
2247 2011-02-18 14:07:00 <ArtForz> dunno, building them is a major PITA and having a board house assemble em costs an arm and a leg
2248 2011-02-18 14:07:11 <mmarker> you can poll a bitcoind instance using JSON to watch for the block, you can actively take part in the network, or have a bitcoind instance send a message saying "hey, saw a block with your key and a transaction, you're good"
2249 2011-02-18 14:07:16 <JFK911> 1. Sell ASICS.  2. Pump & dump BTC holdings.  3. Profit!
2250 2011-02-18 14:07:43 <mmarker> the 3rd option, the push message, is ideal for mobile, since it's very very light on the battery.
2251 2011-02-18 14:07:53 <ArtForz> and I still havent found a affordable mass-manufacturable cooling solution
2252 2011-02-18 14:08:10 <mmarker> How many watts of heat need to be removed?
2253 2011-02-18 14:08:20 <ArtForz> about 7 per chip
2254 2011-02-18 14:08:32 <mmarker> Personally, a recirc chiller and Dowtherm for insanity.
2255 2011-02-18 14:08:46 <ArtForz> currently I'm using a modified 1U P4 heatsink shared between 4 chips
2256 2011-02-18 14:08:51 <UukGoblin> mmarker, yeah, I'd send a message from the bitcoind back to your app when a block gets generated... but even a block generated doesn't have to mean that the transaction is good... 6 blocks is considered "standard" to confirm a transaction
2257 2011-02-18 14:08:54 <mmarker> But Dowtherm is silly expensive.
2258 2011-02-18 14:09:16 <mmarker> Uuk: You get the idea, though.
2259 2011-02-18 14:09:38 * UukGoblin nods
2260 2011-02-18 14:09:50 <mmarker> In short, prevents the phone from needing to be part of the bitcoin network, and doesn't then need to poll the network to see if things got finished.
2261 2011-02-18 14:10:00 <bk128> ArtForz: is this right? http://i51.tinypic.com/2hcergj.png
2262 2011-02-18 14:10:11 <bk128> and do you just split the pwm out to all the fans?
2263 2011-02-18 14:10:21 <mmarker> My original idea was to implement part of bitcoind in java and have it run on the phone. Then I drank some more and realized that was effin stupid.
2264 2011-02-18 14:10:42 <UukGoblin> mmarker, I wouldn't worry, I'd let the user poll for blocks when she needs them ;-] sending out a transaction to a client usually means it'll get accepted eventually
2265 2011-02-18 14:10:43 <ArtForz> looks right, and yeah, with these fans I simply share PWM
2266 2011-02-18 14:11:11 <bk128> do you ever use attiny?
2267 2011-02-18 14:11:13 <ArtForz> delta is nice enough to provide a equivalent input schematic, you can simpyl parallel em
2268 2011-02-18 14:11:16 <ArtForz> yes
2269 2011-02-18 14:11:28 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
2270 2011-02-18 14:11:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108941 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1938 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 15 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53914.05889884
2271 2011-02-18 14:11:33 <ArtForz> but why bother, a atmega48 is like $2.50
2272 2011-02-18 14:11:51 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 500000
2273 2011-02-18 14:11:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 3 days, 14 hours, 59 minutes, and 48 seconds
2274 2011-02-18 14:12:04 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 570000
2275 2011-02-18 14:12:04 <bk128> I think I was using atmega8's last.  have you tried the msp430's?
2276 2011-02-18 14:12:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 570000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 3 days, 4 hours, 18 minutes, and 46 seconds
2277 2011-02-18 14:12:25 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calcd 570000, 53914
2278 2011-02-18 14:12:25 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2279 2011-02-18 14:12:29 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calcd 570000 53914
2280 2011-02-18 14:12:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 570000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 53914, is 4 days, 16 hours, 50 minutes, and 43 seconds
2281 2011-02-18 14:12:31 * mmarker needs to give away some of his microcontrollers. 
2282 2011-02-18 14:12:36 <mmarker> I have too many of them.
2283 2011-02-18 14:12:54 <bk128> i'll take them!
2284 2011-02-18 14:12:58 <bk128> what do you have?
2285 2011-02-18 14:13:20 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calcd 1570000 53914
2286 2011-02-18 14:13:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1570000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 53914, is 1 day, 16 hours, 58 minutes, and 9 seconds
2287 2011-02-18 14:13:23 * UukGoblin likes microcontrollers too ;-]
2288 2011-02-18 14:13:46 <UukGoblin> jesus holy shitfuck @ next estimate
2289 2011-02-18 14:14:28 <Sirius> aagh
2290 2011-02-18 14:15:04 <UukGoblin> oh, Sirius, hi :-)
2291 2011-02-18 14:15:07 <Sirius> hi
2292 2011-02-18 14:15:22 <mmarker> I don't have a lot of excess right now. I kinda went a little overboard sampling
2293 2011-02-18 14:15:28 <bk128> 36.5k is next difficulty estimate?
2294 2011-02-18 14:15:40 <dsg> No, current
2295 2011-02-18 14:15:47 <dsg> Next is 53914.05889884
2296 2011-02-18 14:15:52 <bk128> wtffff
2297 2011-02-18 14:15:55 <bk128> ;bc,stats
2298 2011-02-18 14:16:00 <bk128> ;;bc,stats
2299 2011-02-18 14:16:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108942 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1937 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 54255.95957554
2300 2011-02-18 14:16:05 <bk128> FML
2301 2011-02-18 14:16:12 <molecular> crap!
2302 2011-02-18 14:16:37 <mmarker> But I do know I have 2 extra
2303 2011-02-18 14:16:38 <mmarker> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en532441
2304 2011-02-18 14:16:51 <bk128> ;;bc,calcd 1000000 54255.95957554
2305 2011-02-18 14:16:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 54255.95957554, is 2 days, 16 hours, 43 minutes, and 47 seconds
2306 2011-02-18 14:17:17 <bk128> alright, I gotta head out
2307 2011-02-18 14:17:28 <mmarker> Cant remember if I have some spare Cortex-M3 based stuff.
2308 2011-02-18 14:17:28 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2309 2011-02-18 14:17:42 <UukGoblin> Cortex Command was funny
2310 2011-02-18 14:18:06 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2311 2011-02-18 14:18:42 altamic has joined
2312 2011-02-18 14:19:48 edcba_ is now known as edcba
2313 2011-02-18 14:19:58 johndrinkwater has joined
2314 2011-02-18 14:22:28 gavinandresen has joined
2315 2011-02-18 14:22:58 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2316 2011-02-18 14:23:36 [Tycho] has joined
2317 2011-02-18 14:24:38 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2318 2011-02-18 14:26:04 <[Tycho]> Is there only one generating pool currently working ?
2319 2011-02-18 14:26:26 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 1000000
2320 2011-02-18 14:26:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1 day, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 54 seconds
2321 2011-02-18 14:26:41 altamic has joined
2322 2011-02-18 14:26:42 <KBme> the current difficulty is off
2323 2011-02-18 14:27:05 <KBme> it's at 54k now
2324 2011-02-18 14:27:14 <KBme> da2ce7:
2325 2011-02-18 14:27:28 <sipa> ?
2326 2011-02-18 14:27:43 <mmarker> Woo. Accepted!
2327 2011-02-18 14:27:43 jav has joined
2328 2011-02-18 14:27:51 tower has joined
2329 2011-02-18 14:27:57 <sipa> [Tycho]: there is mining.bitcoin.cz and pool.yyz.us
2330 2011-02-18 14:28:37 <mmarker> I thought jgarzik pulled his pool?
2331 2011-02-18 14:28:51 <sipa> oh
2332 2011-02-18 14:28:53 <sipa> possible
2333 2011-02-18 14:28:57 BlueMatt has joined
2334 2011-02-18 14:29:03 <sipa> the site is still up though
2335 2011-02-18 14:29:20 BlueMatt has quit (Client Quit)
2336 2011-02-18 14:29:30 BlueMatt has joined
2337 2011-02-18 14:29:40 BlueMatt has quit (Client Quit)
2338 2011-02-18 14:29:45 <[Tycho]> Wow, i didn't knew about pool.yyz.us
2339 2011-02-18 14:30:26 tower is now known as towerX
2340 2011-02-18 14:31:23 <[Tycho]> But i don't see any stats on the page...
2341 2011-02-18 14:32:07 <mmarker> The code is out there to, ot look at
2342 2011-02-18 14:32:14 <mmarker> I need to write some scripts to set up the database schema it's looking for
2343 2011-02-18 14:32:23 BlueMatt has joined
2344 2011-02-18 14:32:27 BlueMatt has quit (Client Quit)
2345 2011-02-18 14:32:28 <mmarker> Since it also makes a nice bitcoind miner proxy
2346 2011-02-18 14:32:55 <UukGoblin> so the current total network Ghash/s is about 390?
2347 2011-02-18 14:33:31 BlueMatt has joined
2348 2011-02-18 14:35:05 BlueMatt_ has joined
2349 2011-02-18 14:38:34 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2350 2011-02-18 14:38:39 <mmarker> Speaking of which, he probably isn't up yet
2351 2011-02-18 14:38:54 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt
2352 2011-02-18 14:38:55 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2353 2011-02-18 14:38:55 BlueMatt has joined
2354 2011-02-18 14:39:22 <gavinandresen> m0mchil still here?
2355 2011-02-18 14:39:22 <[Tycho]> So there is only one at this moment ?
2356 2011-02-18 14:41:57 <m0mchil> hi gavin
2357 2011-02-18 14:42:28 <nanotube> [Tycho]: there's also bitpenny. currently in semi-private mode, but if you ask, your ip will be allowed
2358 2011-02-18 14:42:43 <BlueMatt> Gavin, I had been meaning to ask, what ever happened to the change port option you worked on?
2359 2011-02-18 14:42:45 <gavinandresen> Howdy-- your build looks great, I'm updating the build-msw.txt with notes and then will build the -setup.exe
2360 2011-02-18 14:42:53 <m0mchil> nice
2361 2011-02-18 14:43:13 <[Tycho]> nanotube, bitpenny is yours ?
2362 2011-02-18 14:43:28 <gavinandresen> The whole "build this using a DOS prompt and THAT using a MSYS shell" is what tripped me up with I tried to get it all right, I think....
2363 2011-02-18 14:43:50 <m0mchil> I guess all should be buildable with MSYS only
2364 2011-02-18 14:44:24 <m0mchil> what dep versions you use for linux builds?
2365 2011-02-18 14:44:26 <gavinandresen> Uh-huh....   Hey, did openssl compile cleanly?  For next release I'm thinking we should enable https support in the windows binaries....
2366 2011-02-18 14:44:36 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2367 2011-02-18 14:45:01 <EvanR> so slush's pool stats seem to be mostly back to normal
2368 2011-02-18 14:45:08 <EvanR> except works have a score column
2369 2011-02-18 14:45:10 <EvanR> workers
2370 2011-02-18 14:45:26 <m0mchil> yup, I think openssl was OK
2371 2011-02-18 14:45:29 <BlueMatt> EvanR yea he changed the payout math to prevent the cheating attacks
2372 2011-02-18 14:45:38 <nanotube> [Tycho]: nope, OneFixt's
2373 2011-02-18 14:45:48 <mmarker> Yup.
2374 2011-02-18 14:45:53 <[Tycho]> There is silence on bitpenny channel...
2375 2011-02-18 14:45:54 <gavinandresen> I'll be spinning up the Linux VMs later today to re-do the Linux builds-- I don't recall what versions of dependencies I used.
2376 2011-02-18 14:46:04 <mmarker> Sadly, I have some CPU miners that seem to be getting 0 score :(
2377 2011-02-18 14:46:30 <nanotube> [Tycho]: just wait. :)
2378 2011-02-18 14:46:51 <m0mchil> I think boost 1.45.0 should be possible on win too...
2379 2011-02-18 14:47:02 <m0mchil> but needs patching
2380 2011-02-18 14:48:44 <gavinandresen> m0mchil: so you built boost 1.43.0 using bjam 3.1.18?  (or did you use the bjam bootstrapped from 1.43.0 or 1.45.0 ?)
2381 2011-02-18 14:50:16 <m0mchil> bjam 3.1.18
2382 2011-02-18 14:50:30 <m0mchil> then I saw bootstrap method
2383 2011-02-18 14:50:44 <m0mchil> and used it for 1.45 only
2384 2011-02-18 14:51:42 <m0mchil> both boost builds > 7-8 hours... it was slow on MY machine but not THIS slow :)
2385 2011-02-18 14:52:39 <gavinandresen> Yup.  I started to figure out bjam-- it likes to build every variation of static/multithreaded/debug (8 different versions of all the libraries, I think)....
2386 2011-02-18 14:53:09 <gavinandresen> There is a way to tell it to just build the configuration you need.
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2390 2011-02-18 14:56:27 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * re6e8789 / (build-msw.txt makefile.mingw): Windows mingw32 makefile and build notes (thanks m0mchil) - http://bit.ly/i398eh
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2398 2011-02-18 15:26:23 <mmarker> Hmm.
2399 2011-02-18 15:28:47 Lachesis has joined
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2401 2011-02-18 15:33:20 BlueMatt has joined
2402 2011-02-18 15:44:03 <afed> ;;bc,stats
2403 2011-02-18 15:44:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108953 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1926 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 29 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53450.42201286
2404 2011-02-18 15:46:53 <CIA-57> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rd787e00 / setup.nsi : Changed setup for mingw toolchain - http://bit.ly/hluF0u
2405 2011-02-18 15:47:59 <Lachesis> anyone know the conversion between compute4cash's "work units" and BTC hashes?
2406 2011-02-18 15:48:37 <nanotube> Lachesis: nope. probably a diff=X hash.
2407 2011-02-18 15:49:05 <Lachesis> they're claiming to be doing 58 WU/hour, but i have no idea how powerful of a pool that makes them
2408 2011-02-18 15:49:08 <nanotube> whatever the workunits are - his 'estimated payout' for a 5970, is about 50% of what you would expect generating on your own.
2409 2011-02-18 15:49:21 <Lachesis> yeah
2410 2011-02-18 15:49:26 <mmarker> I still think there's something shady going on.
2411 2011-02-18 15:49:26 <Lachesis> here's something
2412 2011-02-18 15:49:36 <Lachesis> 5970 makes 2.1 WU / hr
2413 2011-02-18 15:49:46 <nanotube> Lachesis: ah ok
2414 2011-02-18 15:49:57 <nanotube> what hps is your 5970 running at?
2415 2011-02-18 15:50:05 <Lachesis> not my 5970, unfortunately
2416 2011-02-18 15:50:11 <Lachesis> it's from a screenshot on their site
2417 2011-02-18 15:50:15 <nanotube> heh well, let's just assume 600m for roundness.
2418 2011-02-18 15:50:20 <Lachesis> yeah sounds good
2419 2011-02-18 15:50:57 <nanotube> ;;bc,calcd 600000 300
2420 2011-02-18 15:50:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 300, is 35 minutes and 47 seconds
2421 2011-02-18 15:51:10 <nanotube> so... difficulty of maybe about 300, it seems.
2422 2011-02-18 15:51:14 <nanotube> a litte less
2423 2011-02-18 15:51:54 <Lachesis> ooh not bad
2424 2011-02-18 15:52:05 <Lachesis> method of calc, not the pool
2425 2011-02-18 15:52:16 <nanotube> heh
2426 2011-02-18 15:52:18 <Lachesis> 1 WU/hr is about 286 Mhashes/sec
2427 2011-02-18 15:52:42 <Lachesis> opportunity cost-wise, that is
2428 2011-02-18 15:52:51 <[Tycho]> 286 Mhashes/sec is one core of 5970 at ~770 MHz
2429 2011-02-18 15:53:29 <Lachesis> he's offering $0.20 / WU
2430 2011-02-18 15:53:42 <Lachesis> so 0.40 / hr for a 5970
2431 2011-02-18 15:53:55 <Lachesis> $0.42 more accurately
2432 2011-02-18 15:54:05 <Lachesis> that's $10.18 a day
2433 2011-02-18 15:54:09 <gavinandresen> Anybody here running Windows?  Willing to give a quick sanity test: https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/  -- need to sanity test the new WIndows build
2434 2011-02-18 15:54:27 <Lachesis> same GPU would make $17.22 running solo
2435 2011-02-18 15:54:40 <Lachesis> or 16.88 in slush's pool
2436 2011-02-18 15:54:45 <Lachesis> with minimum donation
2437 2011-02-18 15:55:16 <[Tycho]> Lachesis, only before slush's update :)
2438 2011-02-18 15:55:24 <Lachesis> what's slush's update?
2439 2011-02-18 15:55:29 <Lachesis> the Push stack?
2440 2011-02-18 15:55:33 <Lachesis> is he then turning donations back off?
2441 2011-02-18 15:55:34 <[Tycho]> Yesterday's update.
2442 2011-02-18 15:55:43 <Lachesis> oh what happened yesterday?
2443 2011-02-18 15:55:48 <BlueMatt> He just changed the calculation, in the long term it is the same payout
2444 2011-02-18 15:55:48 <luke-jr> genjix: fixed the cashier refreshing code to work sanely ☺
2445 2011-02-18 15:55:59 <[Tycho]> Rewards now are much lower.
2446 2011-02-18 15:56:05 <genjix> nice
2447 2011-02-18 15:56:10 <luke-jr> genjix: also added a tonal branch which utilizes a new Units settings tab
2448 2011-02-18 15:56:19 <Lachesis> [Tycho], why are they lower?
2449 2011-02-18 15:56:24 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, yeah, that's what i thought
2450 2011-02-18 15:56:26 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2451 2011-02-18 15:56:34 <luke-jr> with 2 options: Decimal/Tonal and Assume/Prefer/Force
2452 2011-02-18 15:56:52 <[Tycho]> I don't know why, but now i'm getting less btc per hour.
2453 2011-02-18 15:56:56 <BlueMatt> "In longer time, this does not affect you at all. In shorter time, this introduce some bigger variance in daily rewards."
2454 2011-02-18 15:56:57 <luke-jr> the non-force settings, try to algorithmicly guess which a value is intented to be
2455 2011-02-18 15:56:59 <BlueMatt> from slush
2456 2011-02-18 15:57:07 <BlueMatt> In longer time, this does not affect you at all. In shorter time, this introduce some bigger variance in daily rewards.
2457 2011-02-18 15:57:10 <BlueMatt> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
2458 2011-02-18 15:57:24 <[Tycho]> At night it was only 50% of before (not to mention difficulty step)
2459 2011-02-18 15:57:39 <BlueMatt> The difficulty has increased alot, so you should lose alot
2460 2011-02-18 15:57:43 <luke-jr> genjix: tonal branch doesn't support *sending* correctly, yet, though (unless configured for Decimal)
2461 2011-02-18 15:57:50 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt, can't believe yet. How much longer it should be ?
2462 2011-02-18 15:58:13 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt, i considered difficulty increase too.
2463 2011-02-18 15:58:13 <Lachesis> luke-jr, what's a tonal branch?
2464 2011-02-18 15:58:14 <genjix> you will want to create your own validator for the input field.
2465 2011-02-18 15:58:18 <luke-jr> old difficulty, i was supposed to get 150/mo; new difficulty, only 100
2466 2011-02-18 15:58:32 <luke-jr> genjix: yeah, I know. that part may be non-trivial :/
2467 2011-02-18 15:58:43 <luke-jr> Lachesis: we are discussing genjix's bitcoin client
2468 2011-02-18 15:58:45 <BlueMatt> [Tycho] wait another couple of days, you might be getting unlucky
2469 2011-02-18 15:58:56 <Lachesis> luke-jr, ah, ty
2470 2011-02-18 15:59:00 <luke-jr> Lachesis: the tonal branch, is a variant with support for the Tonal number system
2471 2011-02-18 15:59:05 <genjix> not only my client :p
2472 2011-02-18 15:59:07 <mmarker> Hmm, is the code for that up for review yet?
2473 2011-02-18 15:59:09 <luke-jr> genjix: no?
2474 2011-02-18 15:59:15 <BlueMatt> I really haven't seen much drop at all from yesterday (not even quite 50% from the difficulty)
2475 2011-02-18 15:59:24 <genjix> you've written some code I've yet to merge
2476 2011-02-18 15:59:26 <mmarker> I'm thinking about adding some hooks to the bitcoind to transmit messages when events occur
2477 2011-02-18 15:59:33 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt, i'm not talking about just one or two blocks.
2478 2011-02-18 15:59:33 <luke-jr> genjix: but you started it XD
2479 2011-02-18 15:59:37 <genjix> mtux has given me resources for the wallet update tool
2480 2011-02-18 15:59:41 <luke-jr> fine: I'll call it Spesmilo
2481 2011-02-18 15:59:42 <genjix> .etc
2482 2011-02-18 15:59:43 <luke-jr> :p
2483 2011-02-18 15:59:59 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spesmilo
2484 2011-02-18 16:00:02 <BlueMatt> [Tycho] yea the prob on bitcoin is very unevenly distributed, it is fairly easy to get very unlucky or very lucky
2485 2011-02-18 16:00:03 <genjix> :)
2486 2011-02-18 16:00:32 <[Tycho]> It wasn't very unevenly in the last week.
2487 2011-02-18 16:00:36 <luke-jr> genjix: maybe we need a new name
2488 2011-02-18 16:00:43 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen, are you doing windows builds ?
2489 2011-02-18 16:01:03 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2490 2011-02-18 16:01:04 <Lachesis> luke-jr, genjix, what are tonal numbers? All I can find is tonality in music.
2491 2011-02-18 16:01:05 <BlueMatt> [Tycho] in any case I'd wait a couple of days and then check again
2492 2011-02-18 16:01:11 <gavinandresen> m0mchil setup the build environment, I'm putting the windows builds together.
2493 2011-02-18 16:01:14 <genjix> names are unimportant... but why?
2494 2011-02-18 16:01:40 <[Tycho]> Windows version of Bitcoin client lacks notify mesages about incoming events.
2495 2011-02-18 16:01:43 <luke-jr> Lachesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonal_System http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/tonal-system/10991091
2496 2011-02-18 16:02:04 <gavinandresen> Tycho: I don't understand what that means.  What incoming events?
2497 2011-02-18 16:02:06 afed has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2498 2011-02-18 16:02:22 afed has joined
2499 2011-02-18 16:02:42 <gavinandresen> (and if it is a bug, please file an issue at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues )
2500 2011-02-18 16:03:01 <Lachesis> genjix, python qt-based BTC client? awesome.
2501 2011-02-18 16:03:10 <Lachesis> how have i not heard about this?
2502 2011-02-18 16:03:22 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen, incoming payment or generation event, for example.
2503 2011-02-18 16:03:36 <genjix> Lachesis: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3451.0
2504 2011-02-18 16:03:52 <genjix> also https://github.com/genjix/sekureco (for wallet backups)
2505 2011-02-18 16:03:54 <[Tycho]> No, it's not a bug, it's a lack of feature.
2506 2011-02-18 16:04:05 <BlueMatt> so submit a feature requtes
2507 2011-02-18 16:04:08 <BlueMatt> request*
2508 2011-02-18 16:04:11 <gavinandresen> Tycho:  Ok, file it as a feature request at github....
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2510 2011-02-18 16:04:28 <Lachesis> oh my! that's pretty sweet
2511 2011-02-18 16:04:35 <luke-jr> BitCoin wallet needs a real-time event API :P
2512 2011-02-18 16:04:41 <gavinandresen> (or even better, file it as a pull request ....)
2513 2011-02-18 16:04:41 <Lachesis> it's fully compliant with the normal network?:
2514 2011-02-18 16:04:43 <luke-jr> Spesmilo polls it every second
2515 2011-02-18 16:04:50 <luke-jr> Lachesis: it controls a bitcoind
2516 2011-02-18 16:05:10 <Lachesis> luke-jr, even better
2517 2011-02-18 16:05:33 <luke-jr> for full functionality, you need to apply some patches tho :P
2518 2011-02-18 16:05:36 <Lachesis> can manage one remotely?
2519 2011-02-18 16:05:38 <luke-jr> yes
2520 2011-02-18 16:05:42 <mmarker> luke-jr: I'm contemplating that
2521 2011-02-18 16:05:43 <luke-jr> well, only with my changes
2522 2011-02-18 16:05:46 <luke-jr> mmarker: ?
2523 2011-02-18 16:05:55 <mmarker> real-time event API
2524 2011-02-18 16:06:05 <mmarker> I'm starting to gravitate towards that
2525 2011-02-18 16:06:32 <genjix> mmarker: i used to work with 3d and there was this api called verse, which worked like:
2526 2011-02-18 16:06:36 <luke-jr> Lachesis: http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo
2527 2011-02-18 16:06:40 <genjix> update: timestamp, data
2528 2011-02-18 16:06:49 <genjix> and you weren't guaranteed order.
2529 2011-02-18 16:06:51 <luke-jr> Lachesis: the master branch there, can control a remote bitcoind
2530 2011-02-18 16:07:23 <genjix> that'd be cool. just add transactions to a list as they arrive from the queue
2531 2011-02-18 16:07:23 <mmarker> genjix: I'm thinking something bog simple. persistent HTTP connection with JSON streaming via a timestamp
2532 2011-02-18 16:07:30 <mmarker> up to the consumer to do something with it
2533 2011-02-18 16:07:32 <BlueMatt> what is the changes between sekureco and the mainline client?
2534 2011-02-18 16:07:40 <luke-jr> genjix: anyhow, the cashier repeatedly rebuilding its list annoyed me. so now it fetches up to 1000 entries at startup, then updates the table items when there's a new block
2535 2011-02-18 16:07:51 <mmarker> genjix: Looking at this for an Adroid wallet client
2536 2011-02-18 16:07:54 <genjix> oh excellent news
2537 2011-02-18 16:07:55 <mmarker> Android, even
2538 2011-02-18 16:08:26 <luke-jr> mmarker: how is the Qt Android port?
2539 2011-02-18 16:08:28 <genjix> luke-jr: also needs transactions sent to self... but not a major need atm
2540 2011-02-18 16:08:38 <luke-jr> genjix: huh?
2541 2011-02-18 16:08:43 <genjix> 'Payment to self'
2542 2011-02-18 16:08:48 <luke-jr> o
2543 2011-02-18 16:08:57 <genjix> and removes sent to ' and received to
2544 2011-02-18 16:09:07 <mmarker> Wot? Qt Android port?
2545 2011-02-18 16:09:07 <luke-jr> really, it should show from/to for all tx
2546 2011-02-18 16:09:07 <genjix> didn't get around to that :p
2547 2011-02-18 16:09:14 <mmarker> *puzzled*
2548 2011-02-18 16:09:16 <luke-jr> probably in new columns
2549 2011-02-18 16:09:24 <genjix> main bitcoin client doesn't.
2550 2011-02-18 16:09:25 <Lachesis> does sekureco do anything i can't do with gpg?
2551 2011-02-18 16:09:31 <genjix> for payments to itself.
2552 2011-02-18 16:09:47 <genjix> Lachesis: nah gpg is better if you have that working already.
2553 2011-02-18 16:09:56 <Lachesis> genjix, kk that's what i thought from reading the code
2554 2011-02-18 16:10:20 <Lachesis> hmm maybe i should have all my wallets sync (encrypted of course) into dropbox
2555 2011-02-18 16:10:38 <luke-jr> mmarker: http://gitorious.org/~taipan/qt/android-lighthouse ?
2556 2011-02-18 16:11:47 <mmarker> Oh my god.
2557 2011-02-18 16:11:49 <mmarker> That scares me.
2558 2011-02-18 16:11:51 <mmarker> Greatly.
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2560 2011-02-18 16:12:22 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2561 2011-02-18 16:12:55 <luke-jr> yeah, Android is scary.
2562 2011-02-18 16:13:27 <mmarker> No, I mean Qt
2563 2011-02-18 16:14:02 Daviey has quit (Excess Flood)
2564 2011-02-18 16:14:03 <mmarker> Qt on Android looks to me to be one of those "let's slap on another middle layer and make people go insane"
2565 2011-02-18 16:14:13 <mmarker> Well, worse, since it appears to be C++
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2567 2011-02-18 16:15:20 <BlueMatt> and people wonder why so many android apps run slower than on ios
2568 2011-02-18 16:15:49 <luke-jr> mmarker: Qt > Android
2569 2011-02-18 16:16:34 <mmarker> luke-jr: Not if you're coing, for, say Android. It's like using WINE to build a native Linux app just for linux. Yea, you can do it to get some nice UI and features. But, why.
2570 2011-02-18 16:17:48 <mmarker> and I'm not getting the impression this Qt Android port can use any of the Android API, which is even more mindboggling.
2571 2011-02-18 16:18:11 <luke-jr> good
2572 2011-02-18 16:18:17 <luke-jr> platform-specific code is a bug
2573 2011-02-18 16:18:30 <luke-jr> Qt is native on all platforms.
2574 2011-02-18 16:18:39 <luke-jr> Win32 APIs (WINE) are not
2575 2011-02-18 16:18:48 * [Tycho] hates frameworks
2576 2011-02-18 16:18:56 <[Tycho]> And Qt especially.
2577 2011-02-18 16:19:02 <mmarker> No, not good if it doesn't expose what I need to use, or does it by dragging in a boat anchor.
2578 2011-02-18 16:20:04 <Lachesis> Qt is native on Android?
2579 2011-02-18 16:20:51 <Lachesis> the choice of windowing toolkits is such a holy war
2580 2011-02-18 16:20:58 <Lachesis> i have a friend who swears by Windows forms
2581 2011-02-18 16:21:04 <Lachesis> as implemented in .NET 3.5
2582 2011-02-18 16:21:16 Daviey has joined
2583 2011-02-18 16:21:24 <Lachesis> which is available on Windows from Microsoft and Mac and Linux from Mono
2584 2011-02-18 16:21:34 <Lachesis> so yeah, it's cross-platform
2585 2011-02-18 16:21:36 <Lachesis> but i don't like it
2586 2011-02-18 16:21:54 <luke-jr> it's not really
2587 2011-02-18 16:22:12 <Lachesis> it's too darn bad that Trolltech waited as long as they did to GPL QT
2588 2011-02-18 16:22:14 <luke-jr> it's like WINE
2589 2011-02-18 16:22:25 <Lachesis> mono's way better than wine
2590 2011-02-18 16:22:29 <Lachesis> but i get your point
2591 2011-02-18 16:22:33 <Lachesis> there are two implementations instead of 1
2592 2011-02-18 16:22:43 <Lachesis> if they had done it when those people were looking for a toolkit for gimp, Gtk wouldn't exist
2593 2011-02-18 16:22:46 <mmarker> Be more interesting to see what happens to Qt, since it was core to Nokia's mobile division (which is why they bought it...)
2594 2011-02-18 16:22:49 <luke-jr> as far as I am concerned, Mono and WINE are the same thing
2595 2011-02-18 16:22:56 <Lachesis> luke-jr, they're really not
2596 2011-02-18 16:22:59 <Lachesis> completely different projects
2597 2011-02-18 16:23:19 <mmarker> and different goals, really. One's an API, the other is a VM.
2598 2011-02-18 16:23:34 <Lachesis> mmarker, yeah
2599 2011-02-18 16:23:43 <Lachesis> i hope Nokia keeps developing QT
2600 2011-02-18 16:23:44 <EvanR> that doesnt refute what luke-jr said
2601 2011-02-18 16:24:17 <mmarker> EvanR: if you mean "make things cross platform" then yes. I would say one is more elegant than the other.
2602 2011-02-18 16:24:31 <mmarker> Granted, I'd love to se a Forms app running on S390
2603 2011-02-18 16:24:36 <mmarker> so I can laugh.
2604 2011-02-18 16:25:20 <mmarker> So, this patch for bitcoind in spesmilo...what is it supposed to do?
2605 2011-02-18 16:25:40 <EvanR> mmarker: no, the immediate previous statement ;)
2606 2011-02-18 16:25:58 <luke-jr> mmarker: WINE isn't a VM, it's an API
2607 2011-02-18 16:26:14 <mmarker> I know.
2608 2011-02-18 16:26:15 <Lachesis> luke-jr, yeah, Mono is a VM
2609 2011-02-18 16:26:28 <mmarker> <-- Stupid sucker who did the inital port of Mono to SPARC
2610 2011-02-18 16:26:44 <Lachesis> mmarker, oh nice
2611 2011-02-18 16:27:06 <Lachesis> i remember reading a quote from the guy who ported linux to SPARC in the first place
2612 2011-02-18 16:27:17 <luke-jr> Lachesis: which makes it worse
2613 2011-02-18 16:27:24 <Lachesis> something along the lines of "I thought it would take a week. After two months, I finally got it to say Hello, World and was elated."
2614 2011-02-18 16:27:33 <mmarker> DaveM? Yea, he's nutty.
2615 2011-02-18 16:27:39 <Lachesis> yeah
2616 2011-02-18 16:27:42 <Lachesis> that's the guy
2617 2011-02-18 16:28:06 <Lachesis> luke-jr, no offense, but read a bit about .NET before you talk about it
2618 2011-02-18 16:28:11 <Lachesis> it compiles to a middle language
2619 2011-02-18 16:28:16 <luke-jr> Lachesis: so does Java
2620 2011-02-18 16:28:32 <luke-jr> there is no good reason not to just compile to native bytecode :P
2621 2011-02-18 16:28:41 <mmarker> Yea, in fact, when I ported Jorbis to C#, it was mostly changing some keywords.
2622 2011-02-18 16:29:06 <Lachesis> ^^that's why -- much more cross-platform friendly that way
2623 2011-02-18 16:29:09 <mmarker> Hell, the language at the start wasn't that far off from Java.
2624 2011-02-18 16:29:38 <Lachesis> anyway, i gotta go - cya all later
2625 2011-02-18 16:29:51 <BlueMatt> bye
2626 2011-02-18 16:30:30 <luke-jr> Lachesis: nonsense
2627 2011-02-18 16:30:48 <luke-jr> maybe for proprietary software, which I think should not exist
2628 2011-02-18 16:31:40 <mmarker> May help with optimization, since quite a few compilers do have an intermediate code generation step (LLVM, GCC, Java, Mono, Python...)
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2632 2011-02-18 16:40:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r247 /trunk/ (makefile.mingw build-msw.txt): Windows mingw32 makefile and build notes (thanks m0mchil)
2633 2011-02-18 16:40:02 <CIA-57> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r248 /trunk/setup.nsi: Changed setup for mingw toolchain
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2639 2011-02-18 17:02:53 bk128 has joined
2640 2011-02-18 17:05:46 <bk128> ;;bc,stats
2641 2011-02-18 17:05:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108962 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1917 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51772.00221798
2642 2011-02-18 17:06:21 sotto has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2643 2011-02-18 17:06:52 <bk128> ;;bc,calcd 10^6 36500
2644 2011-02-18 17:06:52 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
2645 2011-02-18 17:07:01 <mmarker> Is gribble's source available. I want to see how it's doing it's difficulty projection
2646 2011-02-18 17:07:04 <bk128> ;;bc,calcd (10^6) 36500
2647 2011-02-18 17:07:04 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2648 2011-02-18 17:07:26 <bk128> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gribble/
2649 2011-02-18 17:08:03 mtgox has joined
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2653 2011-02-18 17:12:38 Lachesis has joined
2654 2011-02-18 17:14:58 <UukGoblin> ;;help stats
2655 2011-02-18 17:14:59 <gribble> (stats takes no arguments) -- Returns some statistics on the user database.
2656 2011-02-18 17:15:08 <UukGoblin> ;;alias stats
2657 2011-02-18 17:15:09 <gribble> Error: You don't have the factoids.alias capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
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2674 2011-02-18 17:21:07 <Lis> _
2675 2011-02-18 17:21:39 grubles has joined
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2681 2011-02-18 17:25:23 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: what ever happened to the alternate port idea/code written?
2682 2011-02-18 17:25:51 * xelister looks @ Lis . God, why wemen always have to talk and talk like that
2683 2011-02-18 17:25:57 <genjix> gavinandresen: you mean other bitcoin implemntations?
2684 2011-02-18 17:26:26 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2685 2011-02-18 17:26:38 <genjix> BlueMatt: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/QBitcoin
2686 2011-02-18 17:27:02 <BlueMatt> no i meant the work gavinandresen did on changing the port bitcoin uses
2687 2011-02-18 17:27:23 <genjix> ok
2688 2011-02-18 17:27:50 <genjix> is it only necessary to backup bitcoin wallets when new addresses are created?
2689 2011-02-18 17:27:58 <Lis> xelister, can not remove the status "away", /away not working
2690 2011-02-18 17:28:03 <BlueMatt> genjix: yes
2691 2011-02-18 17:28:21 <BlueMatt> genjix: but the bitcoin client occasionally generates new addresses w/o showing new ones in the address book
2692 2011-02-18 17:28:29 <BlueMatt> specifically when money is transfered from you
2693 2011-02-18 17:29:32 <genjix> i don't get it... how can that work?
2694 2011-02-18 17:29:32 <BlueMatt> I was referring to http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=589.0
2695 2011-02-18 17:29:38 <genjix> kthx
2696 2011-02-18 17:30:04 <genjix> heh thought that link was about my question
2697 2011-02-18 17:30:14 <xelister> Lis: strange... try reconnecting? what irc lient
2698 2011-02-18 17:30:16 <BlueMatt> No, sorry just took me a while to find it
2699 2011-02-18 17:30:39 <genjix> i forgive you ;D
2700 2011-02-18 17:30:49 <BlueMatt> genjix: The bitcoin client transfers money by transferring the amount you specified to the destination, then the rest in the accounts it is using to a new address which does not show up in the address book
2701 2011-02-18 17:31:09 <genjix> ohh
2702 2011-02-18 17:31:55 <genjix> ok so after sends and new addresses
2703 2011-02-18 17:32:11 <BlueMatt> I think thats it, but I'm not 100% sure, so I left it open
2704 2011-02-18 17:32:42 <genjix> talking about my question or ports? :p
2705 2011-02-18 17:32:43 <Lis> xelister, x-chat, then lose the logs
2706 2011-02-18 17:32:51 <Lis> >__<
2707 2011-02-18 17:32:54 <BlueMatt> yours
2708 2011-02-18 17:33:11 Lis has left ("Ухожу я от вас")
2709 2011-02-18 17:33:29 lis_ has joined
2710 2011-02-18 17:33:38 <genjix> so what do you mean by "I'm not 100% sure, so I left it open
2711 2011-02-18 17:33:43 lis_ is now known as Lis
2712 2011-02-18 17:33:47 <genjix> sounds like you was referring to ports
2713 2011-02-18 17:34:07 <bk128> wow, slush must be freaking out.  # workers is over twice what it was last night
2714 2011-02-18 17:34:13 <bk128> Current server load (60 sec average):	925 getwork/s
2715 2011-02-18 17:34:27 <citizen> oh my god
2716 2011-02-18 17:34:29 <bk128> Active workers (at least one share in last hour):	925
2717 2011-02-18 17:34:47 <bk128> cluster performance is still like 58ghash/sec though
2718 2011-02-18 17:34:56 <bk128> CPU's?
2719 2011-02-18 17:35:07 <ArtForz> probably another botnet
2720 2011-02-18 17:35:25 <bk128> that's happened?
2721 2011-02-18 17:35:34 <ArtForz> yea
2722 2011-02-18 17:35:51 <bk128> cpu's are pointless.  he needs to drop them
2723 2011-02-18 17:36:06 <ArtForz> thats what he did last time
2724 2011-02-18 17:36:50 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
2725 2011-02-18 17:38:40 <xelister> speaking of useless mining
2726 2011-02-18 17:38:45 <xelister> how to overclock the nvidia
2727 2011-02-18 17:39:24 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: see my 'portoption' github branch.
2728 2011-02-18 17:40:04 <ArtForz> oi!
2729 2011-02-18 17:40:08 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2549.msg50859#msg50859
2730 2011-02-18 17:40:51 <gavinandresen> aurumxchange is reputable?
2731 2011-02-18 17:41:24 <ArtForz> I think so
2732 2011-02-18 17:41:46 <gavinandresen> Nice!   Biggest problem for bitcoin right now is getting 'soft money' in/out.
2733 2011-02-18 17:41:51 <ArtForz> iirc they're mtgoxes main lr<->usd exchanger
2734 2011-02-18 17:42:03 TheAncientGoat has joined
2735 2011-02-18 17:44:53 <genjix> oh so that's MT`AwAy's big news
2736 2011-02-18 17:46:04 <BlueMatt> gavin: sorry didn't see that
2737 2011-02-18 17:46:54 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no problem, we'll have to roll that into the main client one of these days...
2738 2011-02-18 17:46:57 <BlueMatt> genjix: I meant I'm not 100% sure that new and transfer is the only time the btc client generates a new address, so I left it open in my first comment on the matter
2739 2011-02-18 17:47:19 <genjix> ok thanks
2740 2011-02-18 17:47:21 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: would be really nice (vmware-server listens on 8333 by default as well)
2741 2011-02-18 17:47:55 dwdollar has left ()
2742 2011-02-18 17:49:07 <genjix> can anyone else confirm whether bitcoin wallets need to be backed up on new address and send (when new addresses are added to the wallet)?
2743 2011-02-18 17:49:17 <genjix> *only need to be
2744 2011-02-18 17:49:24 mmarker has quit (Quit: Bye)
2745 2011-02-18 17:50:17 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2746 2011-02-18 17:50:18 <gavinandresen> New addresses are created on:  send, getnewaddress/getaccountaddress, and (if you're mining) on a generate
2747 2011-02-18 17:50:23 <midnightmagic> doesn't look to me like aurumxchange does lr<->usd transfers..?
2748 2011-02-18 17:50:37 <genjix> thanks
2749 2011-02-18 17:50:39 <gavinandresen> ... but keypool default is 100, so you don't have to backup EVERY send/generate/etc
2750 2011-02-18 17:50:42 <midnightmagic> oh, except for the debit card i guess
2751 2011-02-18 17:51:28 cronopio has quit (Quit: leaving)
2752 2011-02-18 17:52:38 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, actually addresses are pre allocated, but yeah close enough
2753 2011-02-18 17:52:46 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, oh you covered that
2754 2011-02-18 17:52:48 <phantomcircuit> facepalml
2755 2011-02-18 17:56:32 dstufft has joined
2756 2011-02-18 17:57:10 <dstufft> hey, so i'm trying to use jgarzik's miner, i have an https url, and i am getting errors relating to verifying the cert i believe
2757 2011-02-18 17:57:14 <dstufft> http://pastebin.com/dgn6m1yM
2758 2011-02-18 17:57:21 <dstufft> this is on windows 7
2759 2011-02-18 17:58:04 Lachesis has joined
2760 2011-02-18 18:04:20 <ArtForz> midnightmagic: huh?
2761 2011-02-18 18:09:03 JunK-Y has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2762 2011-02-18 18:09:18 JunK-Y has joined
2763 2011-02-18 18:09:47 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2764 2011-02-18 18:09:57 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: the main services that appear to be offered on that aurumxchange site appeared to be e- to e-currency exchanges and then i noticed that he seems to be selling debit cards.
2765 2011-02-18 18:10:08 phantomcircuit has joined
2766 2011-02-18 18:10:27 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: it occurs to me that you sell BTC. do you use exchangezone? :)
2767 2011-02-18 18:10:38 <ArtForz> https://www.aurumxchange.com/rates
2768 2011-02-18 18:10:48 <ArtForz> sure looks like they do lrusd <-> usd wire
2769 2011-02-18 18:11:33 <ArtForz> usd -> lrusd at 1:1 less $10 fees
2770 2011-02-18 18:11:48 <midnightmagic> ah, so it is..!
2771 2011-02-18 18:15:24 <nanotube> ah interesting, aurumexchange plans to do direct lr-btc exchange
2772 2011-02-18 18:15:50 mbarkhau has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2773 2011-02-18 18:15:54 Blitzboom has joined
2774 2011-02-18 18:16:22 <niekie> Um.
2775 2011-02-18 18:16:26 <niekie> Is slush's pool still working?
2776 2011-02-18 18:16:32 <Blitzboom> hi. i have a seroius wallet problem
2777 2011-02-18 18:16:34 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2778 2011-02-18 18:16:37 <BlueMatt> niekie: yea
2779 2011-02-18 18:16:42 <BlueMatt> from here at least
2780 2011-02-18 18:17:09 * jgarzik has a screenful of '400' http status errors, with slush's pool
2781 2011-02-18 18:17:09 <niekie> I've gotten several payout notices.
2782 2011-02-18 18:17:15 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, please ask a full question :P
2783 2011-02-18 18:17:16 <niekie> BUT
2784 2011-02-18 18:17:18 <Blitzboom> before, i had no wallet.dat in my folder, just blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat, so i copied them, deleted them and started the client again
2785 2011-02-18 18:17:19 akem has joined
2786 2011-02-18 18:17:42 <Blitzboom> now everything’s gone, so i want to know if i can recover the data from the harddrive
2787 2011-02-18 18:17:42 <niekie> Last actual payout was yesterday.
2788 2011-02-18 18:17:51 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: STOP ANYTHING THAT WRITES DATA TO THE HARD DRIVE
2789 2011-02-18 18:17:59 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, you said you made a copy right?
2790 2011-02-18 18:18:12 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: what would that be?
2791 2011-02-18 18:18:14 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: and use a program to recover deleted files (BUT DONT SAVE ANYTHING TO THE HARD DRIVE)
2792 2011-02-18 18:18:21 <Blitzboom> ok
2793 2011-02-18 18:18:24 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: just about everything - shutdown and change computers
2794 2011-02-18 18:18:31 <BlueMatt> seriously, shutdown NOW
2795 2011-02-18 18:18:41 <Blitzboom> alright
2796 2011-02-18 18:18:48 <phantomcircuit> no
2797 2011-02-18 18:18:54 <phantomcircuit> wait windows?
2798 2011-02-18 18:19:03 <BlueMatt> shutdown and mount the hdd in another computer read-only
2799 2011-02-18 18:19:06 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, windows?
2800 2011-02-18 18:19:09 <Blitzboom> yes
2801 2011-02-18 18:19:10 <BlueMatt> or boot from cd
2802 2011-02-18 18:19:16 <BlueMatt> which might recover files
2803 2011-02-18 18:19:18 <phantomcircuit> yeah then immediately shut down
2804 2011-02-18 18:19:48 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: what could he do on linux any different?
2805 2011-02-18 18:20:07 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sudo mount -o remount,ro
2806 2011-02-18 18:20:21 <BlueMatt> oh ok, fair enough
2807 2011-02-18 18:20:28 Omni is now known as AFK!~hopper@attic.ipv6.omnifarious.org|Omni|Work
2808 2011-02-18 18:20:46 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2809 2011-02-18 18:20:50 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, and on some file systems UFS in particular shutting down guarantees you'll never be able to find the files
2810 2011-02-18 18:21:01 <BlueMatt> fair enough
2811 2011-02-18 18:21:31 <phantomcircuit> iirc the sames true of the HFS+ mac fs
2812 2011-02-18 18:21:43 <bk128> he should have just unplugged it.
2813 2011-02-18 18:21:49 <bk128> immediately
2814 2011-02-18 18:22:18 <phantomcircuit> bk128, there aren't many file recovery programs that can handle NTFS in an inconsistent state
2815 2011-02-18 18:22:34 jrabbit has joined
2816 2011-02-18 18:22:46 <phantomcircuit> indeed the only one i know of is sleuthkit and i think that's probably beyond his capabilities
2817 2011-02-18 18:22:55 <bk128> http://www.runtime.org/data-recovery-software.htm
2818 2011-02-18 18:23:19 <bk128> i've pulled pictures from drives that people have quick formatted and installed windows with this util
2819 2011-02-18 18:23:50 <bk128> anyways, I gotta get back to studying
2820 2011-02-18 18:24:19 <phantomcircuit> sure but i doubt it could handle it if you just pulled the power
2821 2011-02-18 18:24:45 <bk128> it definitely could.
2822 2011-02-18 18:24:56 <nanotube> is the 'wallet.dat' set as a 'hidden file' on windows, by any chance? could that have been the reason he didn't see it in his bitcoin dir?
2823 2011-02-18 18:25:21 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2824 2011-02-18 18:27:07 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2825 2011-02-18 18:28:47 <gwillen> nanotube: would removing blk*.dat cause the client to overwrite an old wallet.dat?
2826 2011-02-18 18:28:56 <gwillen> that seems plausible, but like dangerous programming practice
2827 2011-02-18 18:29:01 mmarker has joined
2828 2011-02-18 18:30:30 <nanotube> gwillen: nope
2829 2011-02-18 18:30:38 <gwillen> *nods*
2830 2011-02-18 18:30:44 <gwillen> the whole thing is quite odd, then
2831 2011-02-18 18:30:46 <nanotube> removing the blk*.dats is a standard practice to redownload the block chain and all that.
2832 2011-02-18 18:30:48 <nanotube> yea
2833 2011-02-18 18:30:49 <nanotube> indeed.
2834 2011-02-18 18:30:55 <nanotube> but hey, windows... anything can happen. :)
2835 2011-02-18 18:31:10 <nanotube> maybe wallet was hidden file, and he was set to 'do not show hidden'
2836 2011-02-18 18:31:14 <cosurgi> hmmmmm anything means viruses
2837 2011-02-18 18:31:22 <gwillen> nanotube: right.... but then how did he delete it?
2838 2011-02-18 18:31:25 <gwillen> that part is puzzling
2839 2011-02-18 18:31:32 <nanotube> haha no idea, maybe he deleted the whole dir?
2840 2011-02-18 18:31:37 <gwillen> hmmm, that would do it
2841 2011-02-18 18:31:50 <nanotube> well he's gone now, hopefully booting with a livecd soon
2842 2011-02-18 18:31:54 <cosurgi> when viruses will start appearing, that will steal wallet.dat we can tell that bitcoin has reached criticall popularity
2843 2011-02-18 18:35:49 <mmarker> Heh. True day
2844 2011-02-18 18:35:54 <mmarker> Dat
2845 2011-02-18 18:35:55 <mmarker> Grr
2846 2011-02-18 18:36:02 yay6892 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2847 2011-02-18 18:36:29 yay6892 has joined
2848 2011-02-18 18:38:27 foucist has joined
2849 2011-02-18 18:38:35 <foucist> how do you identify your 5000 series ati card in linux?
2850 2011-02-18 18:38:49 <foucist> i.e. to find out exactly whether it's 5770 or w/e
2851 2011-02-18 18:38:53 <cosurgi> lspci?
2852 2011-02-18 18:38:57 <mmarker> Lspci
2853 2011-02-18 18:39:13 <cosurgi> sometimes it only prints 57xx
2854 2011-02-18 18:39:32 <mmarker> Or if X starts, x's log
2855 2011-02-18 18:40:04 <ArtForz> easiest without x, lspci, check vendor/device id
2856 2011-02-18 18:40:58 <mmarker> That'll work.
2857 2011-02-18 18:42:44 blitzbombe has joined
2858 2011-02-18 18:44:04 <blitzbombe> it is an ssd btw
2859 2011-02-18 18:44:18 <blitzbombe> does tgat change anything?
2860 2011-02-18 18:44:26 <foucist> lspci reports "radeon 5600"
2861 2011-02-18 18:44:35 <blitzbombe> blitzbook here
2862 2011-02-18 18:44:37 <blitzbombe> boom
2863 2011-02-18 18:44:42 <foucist> that doesn't sound specific enough eh?
2864 2011-02-18 18:45:08 rli has left ()
2865 2011-02-18 18:45:16 blitzbombe has quit (Client Quit)
2866 2011-02-18 18:45:40 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2867 2011-02-18 18:46:31 <foucist> ;;bc,calc 70000
2868 2011-02-18 18:46:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 70000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 3 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 24 minutes, and 17 seconds
2869 2011-02-18 18:47:00 <mmarker> Foucist: there's 2 groups of 4:4 hex digits.
2870 2011-02-18 18:47:04 <mmarker> What are they?
2871 2011-02-18 18:47:12 blitzboom has joined
2872 2011-02-18 18:47:27 <blitzboom> its an ssd
2873 2011-02-18 18:47:43 <jgarzik> lot of attention paid to mining, with the most recent slashdotting...   one hopes that eventually attention will turn back to the bitcoin economy, and making goods/services available for bitcoins
2874 2011-02-18 18:47:54 <blitzboom> does that makee? a differenc
2875 2011-02-18 18:48:06 <Zarutian> ;;blocks
2876 2011-02-18 18:48:07 <gribble> Error: "blocks" is not a valid command.
2877 2011-02-18 18:48:14 <Zarutian> ;blocks
2878 2011-02-18 18:48:27 <blitzboom> sorry, writing on my mobile phone
2879 2011-02-18 18:48:30 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
2880 2011-02-18 18:48:30 <gribble> 108982
2881 2011-02-18 18:48:44 <foucist> mmarker: apparently the ati driver wasn't properly enabled anyways
2882 2011-02-18 18:48:52 <mmarker> Oh. Jgarzik...and other deb's. I wanted a sane way for a bitcoind daemon to send messages when events occur. With how the code is structures
2883 2011-02-18 18:48:57 <mmarker> Is there a smart way to do it?
2884 2011-02-18 18:49:06 <mmarker> Focuist: that'll help...
2885 2011-02-18 18:49:15 <blitzboom> why wasnt there a wallet.dat in my folder to begin with?
2886 2011-02-18 18:49:37 <blitzboom> i dont get how i couldve deleted anything
2887 2011-02-18 18:49:56 <jgarzik> mmarker: Your question is too vague :)
2888 2011-02-18 18:50:05 <jgarzik> mmarker: it depends on what event you desire to watch
2889 2011-02-18 18:50:38 <blitzboom>  hello?
2890 2011-02-18 18:51:24 <mmarker> Jgarzik: specifically when blocks/transactions come in. Looking to feed that into Android's cloud to device service for more real-time tracking w/o polling on mobile
2891 2011-02-18 18:51:54 <afed> ;;bc,stats
2892 2011-02-18 18:51:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 108983 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1896 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 24 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 54128.77473344
2893 2011-02-18 18:51:57 <mmarker> Basically turn my android phone into a digital bitcoin wallet
2894 2011-02-18 18:52:12 blitzboom has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2895 2011-02-18 18:52:36 <jgarzik> mmarker: that's what monitorblocks/monitortx patch from gavin does
2896 2011-02-18 18:52:49 <jgarzik> mmarker: right now, you can watch the debug.log file for those events
2897 2011-02-18 18:53:06 blitzboom has joined
2898 2011-02-18 18:53:21 <blitzboom> hello?
2899 2011-02-18 18:53:31 <blitzboom> i lost it on an ssd
2900 2011-02-18 18:53:40 <blitzboom> does that make a difference*
2901 2011-02-18 18:54:20 <mmarker> Jgarzik: wasn't it Jwz who said "I know, I'll use regular expressions" now have 2 problems?
2902 2011-02-18 18:55:00 <mmarker> I've seen that text file. It makes me ill to think to parse it.
2903 2011-02-18 18:56:23 <mmarker> Does the patch have a home somewhere?
2904 2011-02-18 18:57:18 Blitzboom_ has joined
2905 2011-02-18 18:57:27 <Blitzboom_> it’s an SSD
2906 2011-02-18 18:57:33 <Blitzboom_> does that make a difference?
2907 2011-02-18 18:57:45 <[Tycho]> Blitzboom_, not really.
2908 2011-02-18 18:58:05 <Blitzboom_> WHAT data do i need? i HAD no previous wallet.dat
2909 2011-02-18 18:58:09 blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2910 2011-02-18 18:58:19 <mmarker> Oh. Your pushpull as well...
2911 2011-02-18 18:58:21 <Blitzboom_> just addr.dat, blk0001.dat, blkindex
2912 2011-02-18 18:58:28 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
2913 2011-02-18 18:58:29 <gribble> 108983
2914 2011-02-18 18:58:47 <Blitzboom_> so what am i missing?
2915 2011-02-18 18:58:51 <[Tycho]> Blitzboom_, was there any money in your wallet ?
2916 2011-02-18 18:58:55 <Blitzboom_> yes
2917 2011-02-18 18:58:58 <Blitzboom_> too many
2918 2011-02-18 18:59:08 <Blitzboom_> and now none
2919 2011-02-18 18:59:13 <Blitzboom_> all adresses are gone
2920 2011-02-18 18:59:18 <Blitzboom_> why?
2921 2011-02-18 18:59:22 <[Tycho]> Try to use some file recovery software
2922 2011-02-18 18:59:27 <Blitzboom_> namely?
2923 2011-02-18 18:59:47 <[Tycho]> May be EasyRecovery or so on.
2924 2011-02-18 19:00:06 <[Tycho]> Type "file recovery" in Google.
2925 2011-02-18 19:00:08 <Blitzboom_> WHICH files do i need to recover?
2926 2011-02-18 19:00:24 <[Tycho]> wallet.dat
2927 2011-02-18 19:00:29 <Blitzboom_> i told you, there was no wallet.dat. that’s why i copied those two dats to my desktop
2928 2011-02-18 19:00:37 <Blitzboom_> but there was none before
2929 2011-02-18 19:00:42 <Blitzboom_> in C:\Users\Monolith\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin
2930 2011-02-18 19:00:44 <mmarker> You need to find wallet.day
2931 2011-02-18 19:00:45 <citizen> there has to be a wallet.dat
2932 2011-02-18 19:00:53 <[Tycho]> Where you had your money then ?
2933 2011-02-18 19:00:53 <citizen> search the entire computer for it
2934 2011-02-18 19:01:05 <jgarzik> Anybody want new, unboxed 2x 5970?  I'll sell them for 1600 BTC shipped.
2935 2011-02-18 19:01:25 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2936 2011-02-18 19:01:38 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, mining by yourself is not as good as before ? :)
2937 2011-02-18 19:01:45 <Blitzboom_> i don’t get it …
2938 2011-02-18 19:02:02 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2939 2011-02-18 19:02:20 <Blitzboom_> what is blk0001dat?
2940 2011-02-18 19:02:21 * jgarzik doesn't mine (directly..  I am a vlad customer)
2941 2011-02-18 19:02:23 <luke-jr> jgarzik: pretty sure you can buy them cheaper retail
2942 2011-02-18 19:02:49 <mmarker> Just block data. Not your wallet
2943 2011-02-18 19:03:01 <jgarzik> luke-jr: <shrug>  retail might be out of stock.  retail doesn't take BTC.  etc.
2944 2011-02-18 19:04:13 <nanotube> Blitzboom_: try doing a search for wallet.dat and see if you find anything anywhere
2945 2011-02-18 19:04:23 TD_ has joined
2946 2011-02-18 19:04:28 <gavinandresen> mmarker: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/monitorreceived
2947 2011-02-18 19:04:37 <nanotube> also i thinke the ,,(bc,wiki securing your wallet) page lists the default locations for bitcoin wallet.
2948 2011-02-18 19:04:37 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet | Jan 30, 2011 ... In the case that your current wallet hasn't been protected adequately (e.g. put online with a weaker password): Making a new secure wallet, ...
2949 2011-02-18 19:04:51 <Blitzboom_> yeah well, that’s were it wasn’t
2950 2011-02-18 19:04:51 <gavinandresen> mmarker: or   https://gist.github.com/604574
2951 2011-02-18 19:05:21 <Blitzboom_> look, i just took blkindex and blk0001 out of the folder
2952 2011-02-18 19:05:28 <Blitzboom_> and then started bitcoin again
2953 2011-02-18 19:05:39 <foucist> Blitzboom_: never give up!  anyways look for all wallet.* files
2954 2011-02-18 19:05:40 <Blitzboom_> a wallet was created and i hate 0
2955 2011-02-18 19:05:45 <mmarker> I was getting to that...I love github...
2956 2011-02-18 19:06:07 chaord has joined
2957 2011-02-18 19:06:38 <Blitzboom_> so does anyone know a good windows tool for recovering?
2958 2011-02-18 19:06:41 <Blitzboom_> i just want something fast
2959 2011-02-18 19:09:00 <mmarker> Gavinandresen: so monitorx calls a URL when an event occurs. Gotcha
2960 2011-02-18 19:09:41 <jgarzik> yep
2961 2011-02-18 19:09:54 <mmarker> Ok
2962 2011-02-18 19:10:21 <mmarker>  So a little Ruby and tie into my Google account for c2ad
2963 2011-02-18 19:10:44 <mmarker> Nothing but sleepytime for mobile
2964 2011-02-18 19:12:01 <foucist> Blitzboom_: hmm, so how do you know you had money if there was never any wallet?
2965 2011-02-18 19:12:11 <Blitzboom_> because it sohwed in the bitcoin app
2966 2011-02-18 19:12:29 <Blitzboom_> i really don’t understand it
2967 2011-02-18 19:12:34 <[Tycho]> May be your wallet.dat was somewhere else ?
2968 2011-02-18 19:12:35 <Blitzboom_> WHY was a new wallet created from nothing?
2969 2011-02-18 19:12:40 <Blitzboom_> but where and why?
2970 2011-02-18 19:12:45 <Blitzboom_> how could that be
2971 2011-02-18 19:13:20 <jgarzik> Average blocks per hour, last 24h:  9.04
2972 2011-02-18 19:13:27 <jgarzik> we'll be seeing another big difficulty jump, most definitely
2973 2011-02-18 19:14:00 * jgarzik wonders if that is ArtForz bring his toys online
2974 2011-02-18 19:14:15 <Blitzboom_> i don’t see any possibility
2975 2011-02-18 19:14:25 <Blitzboom_> i had it running with -server
2976 2011-02-18 19:14:31 <Blitzboom_> maybe that could be why?
2977 2011-02-18 19:14:48 <OneFixt> has anyone set up mining on a VirtualBox with linux?
2978 2011-02-18 19:15:05 gwillen is now known as gwlln
2979 2011-02-18 19:16:39 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2980 2011-02-18 19:17:37 gwlln is now known as gwillen
2981 2011-02-18 19:18:36 <Blitzboom_> __db.005.del.0723406525
2982 2011-02-18 19:18:42 <Blitzboom_> how do i recover something like this?
2983 2011-02-18 19:18:49 <Blitzboom_> just change filename and type?
2984 2011-02-18 19:19:02 <foucist> yeah rename it
2985 2011-02-18 19:19:48 <cosurgi> lots of recovered files? maybe one of them is your wallet...
2986 2011-02-18 19:20:37 <Blitzboom_> so rename and if it doesn’t work (error) it’s not the wallet?
2987 2011-02-18 19:21:02 <[Tycho]> If it's wallet, it should be named like wallet.dat
2988 2011-02-18 19:21:02 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2989 2011-02-18 19:21:18 <Blitzboom_> well, gueess i’ve lost it all then
2990 2011-02-18 19:22:24 <[Tycho]> There are two kinds of people - ones that don't do backups YET, a those who do.
2991 2011-02-18 19:22:36 <foucist> i'm the third
2992 2011-02-18 19:22:44 <cosurgi> recovered files may have weird names. or __wallet.dat.del.0989098
2993 2011-02-18 19:22:59 <foucist> i do backups whenever i feel like it!
2994 2011-02-18 19:23:12 <foucist> i.e. months
2995 2011-02-18 19:23:23 * cosurgi does cron backup 3 times a day
2996 2011-02-18 19:23:57 Lachesis has joined
2997 2011-02-18 19:24:15 <foucist> i once setup an rsync over sshfs over encfs or some crap
2998 2011-02-18 19:24:23 <foucist> need to get back to that and automate it heh
2999 2011-02-18 19:25:02 <Blitzboom_> how big is a wallet
3000 2011-02-18 19:25:06 <Blitzboom_> approximately
3001 2011-02-18 19:25:10 <Blitzboom_> i had maybe 20adresses
3002 2011-02-18 19:26:02 <cosurgi> a raid6 server sits in the basement and uses rsnapshot tool. works great and backups 8 different boxes scattered around town. 9 HDDs inside.
3003 2011-02-18 19:26:17 <luke-jr> Blitzboom_: impossible, bitcoind keeps 100 addresses spare at all times
3004 2011-02-18 19:26:24 <cosurgi> only 4 TB space, but doubly redundant
3005 2011-02-18 19:26:34 <Blitzboom_> i just want to know how big it is approximately
3006 2011-02-18 19:26:36 <Blitzboom_> teh file
3007 2011-02-18 19:26:47 sabalaba has joined
3008 2011-02-18 19:28:35 <cosurgi> rsnaphot keeps snapshots froma day ago a week ago a mont ago, and so on - as much as you want. Files are hardlinked so not much extra space is needed even for versions half a year old
3009 2011-02-18 19:29:01 <cosurgi> Blitzboom_: about 100kb I think
3010 2011-02-18 19:29:14 <cosurgi> (didn't check ;)
3011 2011-02-18 19:29:17 prax has joined
3012 2011-02-18 19:30:33 <cosurgi> I wonder how much time it wi ll take whole human race to lose all bitcoins
3013 2011-02-18 19:31:49 <Blitzboom_> seriously, this sucks
3014 2011-02-18 19:32:07 <Blitzboom_> because i’m sure i didn’t delete any wallet.dat
3015 2011-02-18 19:32:17 altamic has joined
3016 2011-02-18 19:32:18 altamic has quit (Changing host)
3017 2011-02-18 19:32:18 altamic has joined
3018 2011-02-18 19:32:35 <Blitzboom_> all i did was take blk0001 and blkindex out of the directory and restarting bitcoin
3019 2011-02-18 19:32:47 qisco has joined
3020 2011-02-18 19:33:34 <sgornick> If anyone wasn't aware ... big action today on Mt. Gox.   BTC/USD down to 0.85 for a bit there.
3021 2011-02-18 19:34:08 <cosurgi> so the crash finally arrived
3022 2011-02-18 19:34:44 <cosurgi> maybe some people will stop mining and difficulty will drop for us
3023 2011-02-18 19:34:47 sethsethseth has joined
3024 2011-02-18 19:34:48 <sgornick> well, define "crash" ... in minutes, the best ask is now only down less than 10%, at $0.96]
3025 2011-02-18 19:35:08 foucist has left ()
3026 2011-02-18 19:37:31 <sethsethseth> wow what just happen
3027 2011-02-18 19:37:43 <sethsethseth> how much volume was that
3028 2011-02-18 19:37:45 bitcoiner has joined
3029 2011-02-18 19:37:51 <sethsethseth> i gotta deposit and buy it up
3030 2011-02-18 19:37:58 <jgarzik> yeah really
3031 2011-02-18 19:38:42 <jgarzik> bid .85, ask .95
3032 2011-02-18 19:39:16 <sethsethseth> looks like less than 3k volume selling did taht
3033 2011-02-18 19:39:34 <jgarzik> yeah, bitcoin markets have no depth, in comparison to real markets
3034 2011-02-18 19:39:44 <jgarzik> it's tough to get money in and out
3035 2011-02-18 19:40:40 <midnightmagic> meh, that just means someone is willing to accept a lower price for their BTC and sold right down the bid list.
3036 2011-02-18 19:42:30 bitanarchy has joined
3037 2011-02-18 19:42:47 <jgarzik> sure.  but anyone can "crash" mtgox price with a couple thousand dollars.  that's peanuts to any real investor.  price move doesn't actually mean anything for 24-48 hrs, because it can take that much time to get more money into bitcoin exchanges.
3038 2011-02-18 19:43:23 <jgarzik> once you sell through the main trading range, it's a freefall until people stock up the exchange with more money
3039 2011-02-18 19:44:24 <jgarzik> if I could deposit via PPUSD, I would be buying right now...
3040 2011-02-18 19:44:25 <luke-jr> wish I had some MTGUSD
3041 2011-02-18 19:45:22 <jgarzik> I think there is now someone on mtgox sitting on a large pile of MTGUSD, too :)
3042 2011-02-18 19:45:38 <midnightmagic> did the seller chew through that $0.85 order?
3043 2011-02-18 19:45:45 Kiba has joined
3044 2011-02-18 19:46:12 <midnightmagic> nope, still 7000 @ $0.80
3045 2011-02-18 19:46:38 <jgarzik> $0.8498 is the lowest I saw it go
3046 2011-02-18 19:46:39 <qisco> it looks like several people sold (and not just one individual) since it didn't go down instantly
3047 2011-02-18 19:46:42 <luke-jr> WTF
3048 2011-02-18 19:46:48 <jgarzik> $0.8497
3049 2011-02-18 19:46:48 <luke-jr> BitCoin Market won't let me sell
3050 2011-02-18 19:46:52 <Kiba> hmm
3051 2011-02-18 19:46:52 <mmarker> Heh. Yea...can't do fast funding :(
3052 2011-02-18 19:46:56 <midnightmagic> that might have been just one guy clicking over and over..
3053 2011-02-18 19:47:32 <bitcoiner> anyone has a o c 5770 ?
3054 2011-02-18 19:47:35 <jgarzik> clicking?  You just set a price, and mtgox buys/sells until your order is exhausted, or it hits your price limit
3055 2011-02-18 19:48:01 <midnightmagic> except if you choose smaller amounts because you're timid and you want to verify the sells
3056 2011-02-18 19:48:06 <mmarker> What's the best funding method for mtgox nowadays?
3057 2011-02-18 19:48:21 <Kiba> what happens guys?
3058 2011-02-18 19:48:33 <Lachesis> m0mchil, around?
3059 2011-02-18 19:49:13 <jgarzik> heh
3060 2011-02-18 19:49:13 <qisco> mmarker: bank transfer is great
3061 2011-02-18 19:49:30 <Syke> bitcoiner, I run my 5770 at 900/1400
3062 2011-02-18 19:49:35 <jgarzik> mmarker: bank transfer was easiest for me, but that's usually >$1000 amounts
3063 2011-02-18 19:49:57 <bitcoiner> syke thanks and the fan ?
3064 2011-02-18 19:50:08 <Syke> auto
3065 2011-02-18 19:50:19 <bitcoiner> wat tmp u got
3066 2011-02-18 19:50:23 <Syke> 74c
3067 2011-02-18 19:50:40 <bitcoiner> % fan ?
3068 2011-02-18 19:50:46 <Syke> no clue
3069 2011-02-18 19:50:59 <bitcoiner> anyone know wat a decent % fan for the lifetime of it ?
3070 2011-02-18 19:51:09 <Lachesis> bitcoiner, i've heard 70%
3071 2011-02-18 19:51:14 <Lachesis> idk if i believe it
3072 2011-02-18 19:51:20 <Lachesis> i've got a homemade 500mm fan pointed at my machine :)
3073 2011-02-18 19:51:22 <bitcoiner> from who ? art ?
3074 2011-02-18 19:51:25 <Lachesis> well not homemade
3075 2011-02-18 19:51:27 <Lachesis> no, just on chan
3076 2011-02-18 19:51:29 <Lachesis> don't remember who
3077 2011-02-18 19:51:35 <Lachesis> grabbed my gf's box fan
3078 2011-02-18 19:51:40 <bitcoiner> syke how many u mhash u pulling ?
3079 2011-02-18 19:51:46 <Lachesis> lowers temp about 8c
3080 2011-02-18 19:52:00 <jgarzik> mmarker: plenty of ways to get liberty reserve.  or there's nanoimogold.
3081 2011-02-18 19:52:14 <Lachesis> best way to fund mtgox? bitcoins, of course!
3082 2011-02-18 19:52:15 <Syke> it's paired with a 5870 for 308 mhps
3083 2011-02-18 19:52:19 <Syke> 508
3084 2011-02-18 19:52:24 <Lachesis> Syke, not bad
3085 2011-02-18 19:52:32 <Lachesis> 180ish for the 5770?
3086 2011-02-18 19:52:51 <bitcoiner> thats what I get ocing it
3087 2011-02-18 19:53:07 <Syke> I'm guessing 170
3088 2011-02-18 19:55:20 RazielZ has quit ()
3089 2011-02-18 19:56:40 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3090 2011-02-18 19:57:20 <Syke> I'm getting about 170 mhps on 5770 and 340 mhps on 5870. (diablominer/linux)
3091 2011-02-18 19:58:25 MartianW has joined
3092 2011-02-18 19:59:38 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3093 2011-02-18 20:00:38 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3094 2011-02-18 20:01:29 <jgarzik> wow, over 800 getwork/sec on slush's pool
3095 2011-02-18 20:02:14 <niekie> slush's pool has stopped paying out for me.
3096 2011-02-18 20:02:49 <niekie> I get payout notifications but no bitcoins.
3097 2011-02-18 20:02:57 <mmarker> Yea. Not a big-time bitcoin trader...so wire is painfulish.
3098 2011-02-18 20:03:26 <andrew12> needs more distrubuted
3099 2011-02-18 20:03:28 <andrew12> :p
3100 2011-02-18 20:03:59 <niekie> Anyone knows what might be wrong?
3101 2011-02-18 20:04:36 <mmarker> Well.. I have a lot held up waiting for blocks to ripen, it appears
3102 2011-02-18 20:05:10 <niekie> Yeah, but at a payout notification you should be getting it.
3103 2011-02-18 20:05:23 <mmarker> I got one this morning.
3104 2011-02-18 20:05:40 <mmarker> Also...did the transaction get posted and waiting to confirm?
3105 2011-02-18 20:05:41 <niekie> To be safe, I just generated a new address in mybitcoin and gave that to the pool.
3106 2011-02-18 20:05:49 <lfm> ;;bc,poolstats
3107 2011-02-18 20:05:50 <gribble> {"ghashes_ps": "67.215", "shares": 3907, "active_workers": 880, "round_duration": "0:04:25", "score": "6362.6612", "round_started": "2011-02-18 19:54:03", "shares_cdf": "10.16", "getwork_ps": 459}
3108 2011-02-18 20:06:08 <ArtForz> mybitcoin seems to be losing incoming transactions recently
3109 2011-02-18 20:06:12 <niekie> Oh?
3110 2011-02-18 20:06:14 <niekie> Really?
3111 2011-02-18 20:06:15 <jgarzik> ArtForz: worrisome
3112 2011-02-18 20:06:20 <niekie> That might be it then.
3113 2011-02-18 20:06:33 <niekie> That is indeed worrisome.
3114 2011-02-18 20:06:39 <ArtForz> iirc 2 ppl already posted about it on the forum
3115 2011-02-18 20:06:50 <mmarker> Well...good that I don't use them...but God that would be a very bad thing
3116 2011-02-18 20:07:20 <niekie> Time to axe mybitcoin then.
3117 2011-02-18 20:07:30 <niekie> *downloads and boots Bitcoin client*
3118 2011-02-18 20:08:34 <mmarker> Ok. Dumb question. Is there a way to dump the private keys from the wallet...and just for backup? Guess I'd have to write some custom DB code.
3119 2011-02-18 20:09:27 <jgarzik> mmarker: there's some code on the forums
3120 2011-02-18 20:09:36 <jgarzik> mmarker: it's a frequent request, and one we should integrate into bitcoin client
3121 2011-02-18 20:09:58 <jgarzik> a program should never hold your data hostage
3122 2011-02-18 20:10:03 <jgarzik> especially this data
3123 2011-02-18 20:10:10 <mmarker> Jgarzik: exactly
3124 2011-02-18 20:10:44 <mmarker> I also need it for my android client...well...maybe
3125 2011-02-18 20:10:46 <mmarker> Want to mull over creating transactions while off the net
3126 2011-02-18 20:11:35 <dstufft> hrm is puddinpop's screensaver's supposed to never exit (the process, the screensaver visually goes away)
3127 2011-02-18 20:11:44 <mmarker> wait. No. Dumb idea
3128 2011-02-18 20:11:57 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
3129 2011-02-18 20:12:17 bitcoiner has joined
3130 2011-02-18 20:12:41 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3131 2011-02-18 20:12:43 <jgarzik> <gribble> BCM|   NEW BID|PPUSD                   100 @ $1.0710
3132 2011-02-18 20:12:45 <jgarzik> that's ambitious
3133 2011-02-18 20:13:10 <mmarker> Gotta shoot for the moon
3134 2011-02-18 20:14:24 <jgarzik> mmarker: offline transactions are /technically/ feasible.  easy to screw up though, with an out-of-sync wallet or similar failures.
3135 2011-02-18 20:14:55 <mmarker> Yea. Which is why im thinking against it
3136 2011-02-18 20:15:12 <mmarker> Also making an analogy to a actual transaction
3137 2011-02-18 20:15:30 <mmarker> "Sort...the card reader is down. Can't take credit"
3138 2011-02-18 20:15:45 nathan7 has quit (Quit: reboot)
3139 2011-02-18 20:15:56 <mmarker> From a merchant standpoint...you'd want to see the transaction in the network...being worked on
3140 2011-02-18 20:16:20 mtgox has joined
3141 2011-02-18 20:17:12 <jgarzik> yes
3142 2011-02-18 20:17:15 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3143 2011-02-18 20:17:35 <mmarker> Wooten. Found the bitcoin tools got report
3144 2011-02-18 20:17:48 <jgarzik> for purchases < $100, I think zero-confirmation + sampling at several network points for double-spends is sufficient
3145 2011-02-18 20:18:31 <niekie> Hm.
3146 2011-02-18 20:18:41 <mmarker> The question would then be how to get that sampling
3147 2011-02-18 20:18:43 <niekie> What's the current exchange rate?
3148 2011-02-18 20:18:56 <niekie> vs USD?
3149 2011-02-18 20:24:25 Raulo has joined
3150 2011-02-18 20:31:57 Slix` has joined
3151 2011-02-18 20:34:58 Slix` has quit (Client Quit)
3152 2011-02-18 20:35:18 Slix` has joined
3153 2011-02-18 20:39:52 <MartianW> Wooow.
3154 2011-02-18 20:40:02 <MartianW> The bitcoin price at Mt.gox just dropped like a stone.
3155 2011-02-18 20:40:56 lzd_hz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3156 2011-02-18 20:41:33 <luke-jr> MartianW: yeah, wish I had sold some on MtGox back up at parity
3157 2011-02-18 20:41:48 <MartianW> Wonder what caused that.
3158 2011-02-18 20:46:41 dabron has joined
3159 2011-02-18 20:46:46 llama has joined
3160 2011-02-18 20:48:12 <qisco> thats what happens when somebody is cashing out their bitcoins... market is too small
3161 2011-02-18 20:49:15 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3162 2011-02-18 20:49:48 <MartianW> qisco, who would be cashing out?
3163 2011-02-18 20:50:11 <chaord> someone who's cost basis is down at like 10 cents
3164 2011-02-18 20:50:16 <qisco> Miners for instance, I'm sure they have a lot of equipment to pay off
3165 2011-02-18 20:51:11 <qisco> oh and im sure a few nerves helps on pushing the price down too, didn't seem like it was just one big sale but several
3166 2011-02-18 20:51:40 <MartianW> I wonder if the fall will cause a selling panic.
3167 2011-02-18 20:52:09 <hozer> automated trading!!
3168 2011-02-18 20:52:21 <hozer> we need some regulation to prevent such a future market crash!
3169 2011-02-18 20:52:25 <ArtForz> unlikely
3170 2011-02-18 20:52:50 <bitanarchy> hozer: :-)
3171 2011-02-18 20:53:02 <ArtForz> lol
3172 2011-02-18 20:54:08 <qisco> I guess bitcoin will be worth quite a bit when people like hozer are actually serious :)
3173 2011-02-18 20:55:10 <hozer> hahah.. I'm quite serious about automated trading ;)   ... for anyone that sits around and says 'we need regulation', I would respond with "Write some code and make your own damn fork"
3174 2011-02-18 20:56:16 <qisco> hehe ;) well actually the automated trading part I have no doubt about.
3175 2011-02-18 20:57:19 <hozer> shit, I should buy some bitcoins on mtgox and sell them as euros
3176 2011-02-18 20:57:48 <qisco> look at this :)
3177 2011-02-18 20:58:00 <qisco> cheap coins for everybody
3178 2011-02-18 20:59:04 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
3179 2011-02-18 20:59:11 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
3180 2011-02-18 20:59:11 Blitzboom has joined
3181 2011-02-18 20:59:47 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
3182 2011-02-18 21:02:01 <sethsethseth> lol a guy sells 150btc and crashes teh market 10c
3183 2011-02-18 21:02:31 <hozer> some automated trading would help here
3184 2011-02-18 21:02:48 <ArtForz> sethsethseth: what are you talking about?
3185 2011-02-18 21:03:12 <sethsethseth> mtgox
3186 2011-02-18 21:03:19 <midnightmagic> HAHA that guy who was buying @ $0.80 moved his bid blocker down to $0.68!
3187 2011-02-18 21:03:22 <ArtForz> looks more like ~3k at 0.85 - 0.81
3188 2011-02-18 21:03:39 <midnightmagic> he says it was "down" by 10c i think
3189 2011-02-18 21:04:01 <midnightmagic> $0.95 down to $0.811
3190 2011-02-18 21:04:17 <ArtForz> yes, but that wasnt 150
3191 2011-02-18 21:04:31 <midnightmagic> 49 + 10 + 90 + 10 + 20
3192 2011-02-18 21:04:45 <andrew12> grr
3193 2011-02-18 21:04:46 <ArtForz> errr...
3194 2011-02-18 21:04:49 <ArtForz> nope
3195 2011-02-18 21:04:50 qisco has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3196 2011-02-18 21:04:56 <ArtForz> check the trade history
3197 2011-02-18 21:05:13 <midnightmagic> 12:25, 12:34 12:34: 12:50?
3198 2011-02-18 21:05:31 <andrew12> i gotta write a scrit that sells if the price is less than the average of all the recent trades-.1
3199 2011-02-18 21:05:35 <andrew12> script*
3200 2011-02-18 21:05:37 <Kiba> very bullish today
3201 2011-02-18 21:05:38 <andrew12> :<
3202 2011-02-18 21:05:40 <ArtForz> ~12:50 that was a *tad* more than 150
3203 2011-02-18 21:05:43 <Kiba> buying time!
3204 2011-02-18 21:05:50 <andrew12> yep
3205 2011-02-18 21:06:25 <andrew12> http://mtgox.heroku.com/2h
3206 2011-02-18 21:06:28 <ArtForz> "going down"
3207 2011-02-18 21:06:29 <midnightmagic> suddenly i don't know what you're talking about. :)
3208 2011-02-18 21:06:55 <sethsethseth> holy crap
3209 2011-02-18 21:06:58 <midnightmagic> you mean 11:51 @ 257?
3210 2011-02-18 21:07:07 <ArtForz> depends, what timezone?
3211 2011-02-18 21:07:11 <sethsethseth> there is significant dumping going on now
3212 2011-02-18 21:07:21 <ArtForz> not really significant
3213 2011-02-18 21:07:22 <midnightmagic> i'm in PST
3214 2011-02-18 21:08:04 qisco has joined
3215 2011-02-18 21:08:29 <ArtForz> volume is still pretty low
3216 2011-02-18 21:09:37 bitcoiner has joined
3217 2011-02-18 21:09:51 <andrew12> heh
3218 2011-02-18 21:09:56 <andrew12> the BC trades are throwing me off ;)
3219 2011-02-18 21:10:05 <andrew12> (BC being Bitcoin Central)
3220 2011-02-18 21:10:16 <ArtForz> hehehe
3221 2011-02-18 21:10:35 <Kiba> so far, the other markets are not following mtgox
3222 2011-02-18 21:10:50 <andrew12> not perfectly, nope
3223 2011-02-18 21:11:48 <andrew12> I wonder if it'd be worth it to get a Liberty Reserve account specifically for bitcoin stuffs
3224 2011-02-18 21:12:35 <midnightmagic> i have one, and yes.
3225 2011-02-18 21:13:31 xelister has joined
3226 2011-02-18 21:13:31 xelister has quit (Changing host)
3227 2011-02-18 21:13:31 xelister has joined
3228 2011-02-18 21:13:46 <andrew12> i wonder if it's possible to make two separate tabs in chrome have separate cookies
3229 2011-02-18 21:13:55 <andrew12> that way I can have both of my gmails open at once
3230 2011-02-18 21:14:12 <devon_hillard> andrew12: ask in #bitcoin-otc for someone willing to trade you
3231 2011-02-18 21:14:16 <devon_hillard> say, paypal dollars
3232 2011-02-18 21:14:46 <hozer> andrew12: I'm wondering the same thing
3233 2011-02-18 21:15:03 <Kiba> mtgox volume pretty high today
3234 2011-02-18 21:15:05 <devon_hillard> andrew12: for 2 gmails, you can open a private tab
3235 2011-02-18 21:15:18 <devon_hillard> one private session and one non-private
3236 2011-02-18 21:15:29 <midnightmagic> dupe firefox can be done with profiles
3237 2011-02-18 21:15:43 <midnightmagic> but it's just easier to run firefox as another user with your DISPLAY and an xauth cookie.
3238 2011-02-18 21:16:06 <devon_hillard> private tab is easiest if you only want 2 sessions
3239 2011-02-18 21:16:08 <andrew12> incognito tabs don't exactly work
3240 2011-02-18 21:16:14 <andrew12> well...
3241 2011-02-18 21:16:16 <devon_hillard> no?
3242 2011-02-18 21:16:18 lzd_hz has joined
3243 2011-02-18 21:16:26 <sethsethseth> wtf it says someone sold 4000 at 80
3244 2011-02-18 21:16:45 <andrew12> yeah you cant have an incognito tab in a regular tab
3245 2011-02-18 21:16:54 <andrew12> sethsethseth: why do you think the price is so low?
3246 2011-02-18 21:17:19 <devon_hillard> andrew12: I am using opera and gmail works in a separate session with the private tab
3247 2011-02-18 21:17:24 <sethsethseth> well it was strange in the run up to $1 there was hardly any selling and only buying
3248 2011-02-18 21:17:33 * andrew12 hates opera :P
3249 2011-02-18 21:17:38 <sethsethseth> indicative of speculating and hoarding
3250 2011-02-18 21:17:38 pogden has joined
3251 2011-02-18 21:17:50 <qisco> I just bought my mtusd empty :(
3252 2011-02-18 21:17:51 <sethsethseth> as soon as one big holder dumps the game is over
3253 2011-02-18 21:17:53 <devon_hillard> especially after the slashdotting
3254 2011-02-18 21:18:02 <devon_hillard> but it's good, the market is growing
3255 2011-02-18 21:18:31 <devon_hillard> bitcoin is the only thing out there in secure crypto-tokens
3256 2011-02-18 21:18:46 <devon_hillard> they'll be valuable regardless
3257 2011-02-18 21:19:02 <devon_hillard> valuable at $0.2 or $2 :)
3258 2011-02-18 21:19:07 <qisco> The same could be said if some big one buys, the value could skyrocket instantly
3259 2011-02-18 21:19:26 <andrew12> wow
3260 2011-02-18 21:19:26 lzd_hz is now known as lzd
3261 2011-02-18 21:19:40 <Kiba> price is recovering
3262 2011-02-18 21:19:46 <Kiba> it's a .86
3263 2011-02-18 21:19:46 <bitanarchy> seth: What do you mean, no selling only buying?.... for every sell there is a buy... but you can trade up and trade down
3264 2011-02-18 21:19:48 <hozer> dangit ;)
3265 2011-02-18 21:19:48 jav has joined
3266 2011-02-18 21:19:49 <ArtForz> well, free money for me
3267 2011-02-18 21:19:52 <andrew12> there's no orders at all on bitcoin central for more than .37
3268 2011-02-18 21:19:57 <andrew12> ArtForz: free money?
3269 2011-02-18 21:20:00 <ArtForz> yep
3270 2011-02-18 21:20:08 <sethsethseth> when there are no sellers, the price just gets bid up
3271 2011-02-18 21:20:10 <Kiba> ArtForz: free money how? Don't you like high price?
3272 2011-02-18 21:20:15 <mmarker> You and your toys Art...
3273 2011-02-18 21:20:18 <andrew12> oh, nevermind
3274 2011-02-18 21:20:19 <mmarker> :D
3275 2011-02-18 21:20:34 <andrew12> "i geddit now!"
3276 2011-02-18 21:20:44 <Kiba> and t hen it jump back down to .795
3277 2011-02-18 21:20:59 <bitcoiner> art just sold a bunch right
3278 2011-02-18 21:21:14 <ArtForz> well, I still have the same amount of bitcoins on mtgox I started with today, and $800 more ...
3279 2011-02-18 21:22:04 <bitcoiner> yeah u could have deposit more bitcoins
3280 2011-02-18 21:22:13 <bitcoiner> and unloaded 50k i dunno
3281 2011-02-18 21:22:22 <bitcoiner> u must be having lotza fun
3282 2011-02-18 21:22:28 <ArtForz> yup
3283 2011-02-18 21:22:31 <bitcoiner> :)
3284 2011-02-18 21:23:17 <hozer> hah
3285 2011-02-18 21:23:24 <ArtForz> sold 5k, bought 5k, made a nice profit in the process
3286 2011-02-18 21:23:51 <bitcoiner> u can play w the market with so many chips
3287 2011-02-18 21:24:07 <hozer> I should start an bitcoin commodites exchange (corn/soybeans)
3288 2011-02-18 21:24:17 BitterTea has joined
3289 2011-02-18 21:24:20 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
3290 2011-02-18 21:24:20 BitterTea has joined
3291 2011-02-18 21:24:39 mbarkhau has joined
3292 2011-02-18 21:25:07 <`Jaka> wait
3293 2011-02-18 21:25:11 <bitcoiner> art what is a % fan speed for a long lifetime
3294 2011-02-18 21:25:12 <`Jaka> why did the price for bitcoins suddenly drop
3295 2011-02-18 21:25:23 <Kiba> `Jaka: don't know
3296 2011-02-18 21:25:25 <andrew12> because someone sold a lot for cheap
3297 2011-02-18 21:25:27 <bitcoiner> hahahaha
3298 2011-02-18 21:25:33 <ArtForz> bitcoiner: 0%
3299 2011-02-18 21:25:37 <bitcoiner> fear!
3300 2011-02-18 21:25:48 <bitcoiner> art I know but u know
3301 2011-02-18 21:26:09 <ArtForz> gotta love panic sellers
3302 2011-02-18 21:26:15 <bitcoiner> :P
3303 2011-02-18 21:26:15 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3304 2011-02-18 21:26:30 <bitcoiner> i knew it
3305 2011-02-18 21:26:35 <bitcoiner> hustler
3306 2011-02-18 21:26:43 <sethsethseth> oh this must be dark pool orders taht are >1k
3307 2011-02-18 21:26:45 <Kiba> ArtForz: what could be the possible reason to panic?
3308 2011-02-18 21:26:55 <ArtForz> no clue
3309 2011-02-18 21:27:00 <bitcoiner> fear of value dropping
3310 2011-02-18 21:27:15 <`Jaka> Lowest Ask Price	0.795
3311 2011-02-18 21:27:24 <bitcoiner> hurry sell for .7 :P
3312 2011-02-18 21:27:34 <bitanarchy> ArtForz: Those panic sellers are thinking of the same thing as you, I guess...
3313 2011-02-18 21:27:35 <bitcoiner> or wait ?
3314 2011-02-18 21:27:45 <ArtForz> bitanarchy: generally.. no
3315 2011-02-18 21:27:47 <[Tycho]> bitcoiner, you are talking about fan's lifetime ? :)
3316 2011-02-18 21:28:08 <bitcoiner> yeah  i fear my fan might drop too low i might sell it
3317 2011-02-18 21:28:34 <ArtForz> bitcoiner: sepends a lot on the type of fan
3318 2011-02-18 21:28:44 <ArtForz> the radial blowers on ati reference cards are pretty damn sturdy
3319 2011-02-18 21:28:46 <Kiba> ArtForz: this is like the biggest month for bitcoin and somebody panics?
3320 2011-02-18 21:28:58 <bitcoiner> I bought the xtx 5770 u mentionned
3321 2011-02-18 21:29:00 <ArtForz> Kiba: obviously, yes
3322 2011-02-18 21:29:01 <`Jaka> the government is here
3323 2011-02-18 21:29:06 <`Jaka> trying to cause panic
3324 2011-02-18 21:29:08 <`Jaka> it's over guys
3325 2011-02-18 21:29:09 <ArtForz> up to 60% or so should be fine
3326 2011-02-18 21:29:17 <bitcoiner> k thanks
3327 2011-02-18 21:29:22 <`Jaka> how long does it take
3328 2011-02-18 21:29:26 <`Jaka> to add money from LR
3329 2011-02-18 21:29:53 <ArtForz> LR -> mtgox? usually only a minute or 2
3330 2011-02-18 21:30:31 <sethsethseth> lol the guy with 7k moved it down to .43
3331 2011-02-18 21:30:51 <ArtForz> ?
3332 2011-02-18 21:30:52 <jav> it's indeed a very good month PR-wise for Bitcoin... maybe that's why people are panicking, because Bitcoin is all over the news but prices didn't really go up much or at all
3333 2011-02-18 21:31:37 <ArtForz> the 7k bid at 0.68 is still there
3334 2011-02-18 21:32:20 <hozer> 7k sell @.68?
3335 2011-02-18 21:32:31 <midnightmagic> that guy moved it from the $0.80s
3336 2011-02-18 21:32:34 <ArtForz> yep
3337 2011-02-18 21:32:41 <midnightmagic> pretty funny.
3338 2011-02-18 21:32:54 <ArtForz> guess he doesnt want those bitcoins THAT badly :P
3339 2011-02-18 21:32:54 <bitcoiner> art u play poker ?
3340 2011-02-18 21:32:57 <ArtForz> nope
3341 2011-02-18 21:33:28 <midnightmagic> no, but it occurred to me that buying a chunk like that creates a barrier
3342 2011-02-18 21:33:38 <midnightmagic> so it might just be someone trying to protect the market
3343 2011-02-18 21:33:44 <midnightmagic> maybe that 400k bitcoin owner. :)
3344 2011-02-18 21:34:22 kencausey has joined
3345 2011-02-18 21:34:25 bk128-Droid has joined
3346 2011-02-18 21:35:03 <dstufft> if i wanted to set up a pool, like http://mining.bitcoin.cz, is there any software out there to do it? or is it all custom stuff
3347 2011-02-18 21:35:42 <bitcoiner> anyone got that json link
3348 2011-02-18 21:36:29 ThomasV has joined
3349 2011-02-18 21:36:30 <sethsethseth> lol ups just delivered my 5970's
3350 2011-02-18 21:36:36 <sethsethseth> just in time for the crash:)
3351 2011-02-18 21:36:36 <mmarker> Dstufft: jgarzik has one. See the forums. You have to write your own DB backend though
3352 2011-02-18 21:38:21 <xelister> jav: it takes time imo. months
3353 2011-02-18 21:38:35 <xelister> sethsethseth: lol
3354 2011-02-18 21:38:51 <dstufft> mmarker: ok thanks
3355 2011-02-18 21:39:39 mbarkhau has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3356 2011-02-18 21:39:49 <jav> xelister: yes, true.. I'm not worried about it anyway, just a random guess what other people might be thinking
3357 2011-02-18 21:42:12 <hozer> this is just fascinating to watch
3358 2011-02-18 21:42:22 <xelister> like train crashing
3359 2011-02-18 21:42:52 <andrew12> wewt
3360 2011-02-18 21:42:54 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3361 2011-02-18 21:43:18 <andrew12> modified my mtgox script to monitor new/removed bids/asks on mtgox
3362 2011-02-18 21:45:09 <molecular> ;;seen slush
3363 2011-02-18 21:45:09 <gribble> slush was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 13 hours, 55 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <slush> ok
3364 2011-02-18 21:45:37 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/1580335 -- there's the script
3365 2011-02-18 21:46:43 <molecular> damn, slush has closed registration
3366 2011-02-18 21:46:51 <molecular> just when I wanted to get a friend started
3367 2011-02-18 21:46:59 <molecular> anyone have a slus-account leftover?
3368 2011-02-18 21:47:20 <andrew12> er
3369 2011-02-18 21:47:22 Necr0s has joined
3370 2011-02-18 21:47:28 <qisco> andrew12, which language is that?
3371 2011-02-18 21:47:31 <andrew12> qisco: ruby
3372 2011-02-18 21:47:42 <citizen> i can create a worker account for you :)
3373 2011-02-18 21:47:47 <qisco> ok :)
3374 2011-02-18 21:47:49 <andrew12> citizen: i was gonna say that :P
3375 2011-02-18 21:47:52 <wumpus> slush closed registration? 
3376 2011-02-18 21:47:56 <wumpus> why?
3377 2011-02-18 21:48:03 <andrew12> who knows
3378 2011-02-18 21:48:04 <wumpus> panic in bitcoin land? 
3379 2011-02-18 21:48:14 <mmarker> Load on server
3380 2011-02-18 21:48:14 <hozer> andrew12: is that perl, or what?
3381 2011-02-18 21:48:23 <mmarker> He is having problems iirc
3382 2011-02-18 21:48:50 <andrew12> hozer: its ruby
3383 2011-02-18 21:49:13 <hozer> speaking of crazy markets... http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/agricultural/grain-and-oilseed/corn.html
3384 2011-02-18 21:51:06 kencausey has left ("WeeChat 0.3.2-dev")
3385 2011-02-18 21:51:27 <andrew12> http://blip.tv/file/4771178 - watching this
3386 2011-02-18 21:53:03 <bk128-Droid> Did art sell? Lol
3387 2011-02-18 21:53:15 <ArtForz> well, kinda
3388 2011-02-18 21:53:53 <hozer> Art cleaned up on someone else's panic :)
3389 2011-02-18 21:54:02 <bk128-Droid> :)
3390 2011-02-18 21:54:30 <mmarker> Would have been funnier if he used the "slipped and clicked the mouse"
3391 2011-02-18 21:54:34 <mmarker> Excuse.
3392 2011-02-18 21:54:43 <sethsethseth> anything special i need to do to switch from nvidia cards to ati?
3393 2011-02-18 21:55:02 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: um, you don't "switch"
3394 2011-02-18 21:55:12 <RBecker> whoa the price of btc bombed
3395 2011-02-18 21:55:12 <luke-jr> you uninstall nvidia crap completely
3396 2011-02-18 21:55:15 <luke-jr> then install ati crap
3397 2011-02-18 21:55:58 <andrew12> RBecker: OLD NEWS
3398 2011-02-18 21:55:58 <andrew12> :P
3399 2011-02-18 21:56:08 <mmarker> Or if you have the space...run both
3400 2011-02-18 21:56:14 <RBecker> haven't been watching mtgox recently
3401 2011-02-18 21:56:24 <andrew12> RBecker: /join #bitcoin-monitor
3402 2011-02-18 21:56:26 <andrew12> er
3403 2011-02-18 21:56:28 <andrew12> RBecker: /join #bitcoin-market
3404 2011-02-18 21:57:49 <andrew12> (you wont be able to talk in there in order to reduce noise)
3405 2011-02-18 21:57:58 <RBecker> I noticed the +m
3406 2011-02-18 21:58:00 <andrew12> market activity is shown in there
3407 2011-02-18 21:58:14 <andrew12> RBecker: I know, but most people leave because they can't talk without realizing why
3408 2011-02-18 21:58:32 <RBecker> well then they're idiots
3409 2011-02-18 21:58:44 <andrew12> heh
3410 2011-02-18 22:00:42 <andrew12> http://mtgox.heroku.com/4h
3411 2011-02-18 22:00:45 <hozer> hrrrm.
3412 2011-02-18 22:01:09 <hozer> I'm half tempted to buy a bunch of video cards so I can have enough bitcoins to randomly move the market 10%
3413 2011-02-18 22:01:15 <andrew12> heh
3414 2011-02-18 22:01:38 <RBecker> my friend has a farm of GPUs
3415 2011-02-18 22:01:45 <RBecker> I tried to get him to switch them to bitcoin
3416 2011-02-18 22:01:49 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
3417 2011-02-18 22:01:51 <ThomasV> hozer: you can move the market just by buying btc
3418 2011-02-18 22:01:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109010 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1869 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 19 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53958.76375697
3419 2011-02-18 22:02:07 <andrew12> its not worth it unless they're ati hd's though, RBecker
3420 2011-02-18 22:02:15 <RBecker> ask blake
3421 2011-02-18 22:02:16 <RBecker> lol
3422 2011-02-18 22:02:24 <andrew12> they're his?
3423 2011-02-18 22:02:33 <andrew12> oh yeah
3424 2011-02-18 22:02:36 <RBecker> yeah
3425 2011-02-18 22:02:42 <hozer> ThomasV: but that involves real money ;)   So until I have 'play money' from selling corn this fall, I'm going to avoid that
3426 2011-02-18 22:03:26 <ThomasV> so how will you buy video cards? with corn ?
3427 2011-02-18 22:04:07 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3428 2011-02-18 22:04:10 <andrew12> ThomasV: selling the corn?
3429 2011-02-18 22:04:12 <nanotube> ;;channelstats
3430 2011-02-18 22:04:12 <gribble> On #bitcoin-dev there have been 290776 messages, containing 12977884 characters, 2313778 words, 13670 smileys, and 835 frowns; 3540 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 18419 joins, 998 parts, 17335 quits, 7 kicks, 246 mode changes, and 14 topic changes.  There are currently 193 users and the channel has peaked at 196 users.
3431 2011-02-18 22:04:15 <hozer> GPUs I can at lease pretend I'll do something usefull with
3432 2011-02-18 22:04:28 <nanotube> just about peak users
3433 2011-02-18 22:04:33 <hozer> I can only use about 100BTC at this point
3434 2011-02-18 22:05:19 <ArtForz> thats generally not enough to trigger a run
3435 2011-02-18 22:05:41 <andrew12> heh
3436 2011-02-18 22:05:59 samfisher has joined
3437 2011-02-18 22:06:06 <ThomasV> to trigger a run you need to be convincing
3438 2011-02-18 22:06:11 mbarkhau has joined
3439 2011-02-18 22:06:18 <samfisher> bitcoin is 0.7 usd. how did this happen??
3440 2011-02-18 22:06:25 <andrew12> samfisher: someone sold
3441 2011-02-18 22:06:26 <hozer> now, if I take 1000 bushels of corn to the elevator and get $7.00/bushel, and immediately buy bitcoin, *that* would be convincing
3442 2011-02-18 22:06:35 azrael_ has joined
3443 2011-02-18 22:06:44 <RBecker> Too bad it's not OVER 9000
3444 2011-02-18 22:06:51 <samfisher> andrew12: sold how much?
3445 2011-02-18 22:07:05 <andrew12> samfisher: enough to cause the price to plummet
3446 2011-02-18 22:07:10 <RBecker> #bitcoin-market
3447 2011-02-18 22:07:12 <RBecker> shows trades
3448 2011-02-18 22:07:41 <samfisher> andrew12: but the price will go up?
3449 2011-02-18 22:07:54 <andrew12> samfisher: of course it will. and then it will go down again. :)
3450 2011-02-18 22:07:54 <RBecker> andrew12, the bot in #bitcoin-monitor, is TX transaction?
3451 2011-02-18 22:08:01 <midnightmagic> samfisher: who knows? :)
3452 2011-02-18 22:08:04 <andrew12> RBecker: not sure what else it could be
3453 2011-02-18 22:08:13 <RBecker> so once mine confirms it'll show up?
3454 2011-02-18 22:08:16 <andrew12> no
3455 2011-02-18 22:08:17 <sgornick> samfisher: You might be exaggerating a little on the price though.
3456 2011-02-18 22:08:20 <andrew12> it shows up there immediately
3457 2011-02-18 22:08:27 dabron has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3458 2011-02-18 22:08:30 <RBecker> ah, I missed it then
3459 2011-02-18 22:08:45 <ArtForz> lowest we hit was 0.78
3460 2011-02-18 22:08:58 <RBecker> Jeez, lots of transactions going on
3461 2011-02-18 22:09:08 <andrew12> RBecker: thats normal
3462 2011-02-18 22:09:11 <ArtForz> slush payout time
3463 2011-02-18 22:09:31 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
3464 2011-02-18 22:09:42 satamusic has joined
3465 2011-02-18 22:09:59 <mmarker> Slush's loot pinata broke open, eh?
3466 2011-02-18 22:10:15 <andrew12> heh
3467 2011-02-18 22:10:48 <RBecker> andrew12, I should totally put the address you send mine to on highlight
3468 2011-02-18 22:10:49 satamusic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3469 2011-02-18 22:11:08 <andrew12> RBecker: or you can just look at your bitcoin window every so often...
3470 2011-02-18 22:11:32 <RBecker> andrew12, yeah, but the other way is more fun
3471 2011-02-18 22:11:46 <andrew12> you'll get annoyed eventually
3472 2011-02-18 22:12:02 <RBecker> I don't get paid out that often
3473 2011-02-18 22:12:02 <JFK911> so is cash4compute ruined or what
3474 2011-02-18 22:12:22 <ArtForz> err... why would they be?
3475 2011-02-18 22:12:25 <JFK911> 20% bitcoin crash!! the NYSE would have shut down on this kind of loss!
3476 2011-02-18 22:12:42 satamusic has joined
3477 2011-02-18 22:12:48 <mmarker> Well..if not ruined...maybe a good whack in the face if they ever payed out.
3478 2011-02-18 22:13:05 <dstufft> mmarker: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3078.0;all is this the one you were talking about?
3479 2011-02-18 22:13:16 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3480 2011-02-18 22:13:27 <RBecker> simple machines forum
3481 2011-02-18 22:13:27 <RBecker> kk
3482 2011-02-18 22:13:37 <andrew12> what?
3483 2011-02-18 22:13:44 <RBecker> that's the forum software
3484 2011-02-18 22:13:48 <RBecker> simple machines forum, smf
3485 2011-02-18 22:14:16 <andrew12> i know
3486 2011-02-18 22:14:22 <andrew12> but why did you say that?
3487 2011-02-18 22:14:41 <RBecker> Because I could?
3488 2011-02-18 22:14:47 <andrew12> heh
3489 2011-02-18 22:14:59 <mmarker> Read the thread...the code is in there
3490 2011-02-18 22:15:17 <mmarker> But yea. Right one
3491 2011-02-18 22:15:21 satamusic has quit (Client Quit)
3492 2011-02-18 22:16:19 <ArtForz> hmm, looks like slush did something
3493 2011-02-18 22:16:27 <nanotube> ArtForz: ? what
3494 2011-02-18 22:16:42 <ArtForz> check pool stats, down to 450 getwork/s or so
3495 2011-02-18 22:16:43 sotto has joined
3496 2011-02-18 22:16:50 <nanotube> oh
3497 2011-02-18 22:16:51 <ArtForz> and hashrate is back up
3498 2011-02-18 22:16:54 <andrew12> ;;bc,ppoolstats
3499 2011-02-18 22:16:55 <gribble> Error: "bc,ppoolstats" is not a valid command.
3500 2011-02-18 22:16:57 <andrew12> ;;bc,poolstats
3501 2011-02-18 22:16:58 <gribble> {"ghashes_ps": "61.812", "shares": 2665, "active_workers": 881, "round_duration": "0:03:24", "score": "3910.8796", "round_started": "2011-02-18 22:06:13", "shares_cdf": "7.05", "getwork_ps": 470}
3502 2011-02-18 22:17:14 <andrew12> woo more stats again
3503 2011-02-18 22:17:37 <xelister> price has bigger mood swings then my gf
3504 2011-02-18 22:17:43 <andrew12> xelister: LOL
3505 2011-02-18 22:17:53 jav has quit (Quit: leaving)
3506 2011-02-18 22:18:00 <xelister> 1.00 - 0.80 - 0.90   what next
3507 2011-02-18 22:18:09 <andrew12> xelister: ???
3508 2011-02-18 22:18:11 <andrew12> xelister: PROFIT
3509 2011-02-18 22:18:30 <midnightmagic> wow 61.
3510 2011-02-18 22:18:34 <ArtForz> sqrt(-1)
3511 2011-02-18 22:19:01 <andrew12> lol
3512 2011-02-18 22:19:01 <dstufft> mmarker: thanks, wanted to make sure i found the right thread before devoting time to working on it
3513 2011-02-18 22:19:08 da2ce7 has joined
3514 2011-02-18 22:19:08 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
3515 2011-02-18 22:19:08 da2ce7 has joined
3516 2011-02-18 22:19:16 * andrew12 is selling bitcoins for -1 mtg$
3517 2011-02-18 22:19:37 <andrew12> lolwut
3518 2011-02-18 22:19:46 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
3519 2011-02-18 22:19:47 <ArtForz> dont you mean buying?
3520 2011-02-18 22:19:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109012 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1867 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 20 hours, 37 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53779.04084545
3521 2011-02-18 22:19:55 <mmarker> Dstuffit: its really basic
3522 2011-02-18 22:19:57 <andrew12> ArtForz: probably
3523 2011-02-18 22:19:59 <andrew12> xD
3524 2011-02-18 22:19:59 <ArtForz> otherwise, I'll gladly take all you coins and money :P
3525 2011-02-18 22:20:06 <mmarker> You need a bitcoind on the back end
3526 2011-02-18 22:20:22 <mmarker> And read how the server scores shares
3527 2011-02-18 22:20:33 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
3528 2011-02-18 22:20:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.0402,"low":0.7801,"vol":35537,"buy":0.82,"sell":0.8994,"last":0.8994}}
3529 2011-02-18 22:21:00 <ArtForz> yup, prety much back up to 0.90
3530 2011-02-18 22:21:00 <mmarker> But in short...it just manages giving out work. You need another process to do the bitcoin manipulation of sending out rewards.
3531 2011-02-18 22:21:28 <dstufft> mmarker: cool thanks, want to setup a pool for an established community, i'm a programmer by trade so i sohuld be able to figure it out, and it appears this is python, which is great, since that's my primary language
3532 2011-02-18 22:21:44 <da2ce7> so someone dumped ~16k coins on the market, and it droped down to 0.8 for a little while.
3533 2011-02-18 22:21:50 <xelister> dstufft: what appeas to be python
3534 2011-02-18 22:22:17 satamusic has joined
3535 2011-02-18 22:22:21 <xelister> da2ce7: this reminds me of the times when my friend want to oil trading conference, and ate lots of burrito
3536 2011-02-18 22:22:23 <dstufft> xelister: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py
3537 2011-02-18 22:22:37 <mmarker> Good! Jgarzik hangs around here as well. I do need to post on that thread... I have a schema for the sqlite3 DB it needs
3538 2011-02-18 22:23:13 <ArtForz> there goes that lonely 0.8995 ask
3539 2011-02-18 22:23:18 <dstufft> i might rewrite this to use cherrypy or something
3540 2011-02-18 22:23:23 <andrew12> wow
3541 2011-02-18 22:23:38 <andrew12> I make an ask at .9 and there's immediately one at 0.900001
3542 2011-02-18 22:23:45 <andrew12> s/ask/bid/
3543 2011-02-18 22:23:53 <ArtForz> yeah, we have a few bots on mtgox
3544 2011-02-18 22:23:58 <andrew12> i noticed
3545 2011-02-18 22:23:59 <brunner> oh man, what a wonderful day.
3546 2011-02-18 22:24:11 samfisher has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
3547 2011-02-18 22:24:20 <andrew12> .97!
3548 2011-02-18 22:24:23 <brunner> ;)
3549 2011-02-18 22:24:25 <ArtForz> lol
3550 2011-02-18 22:24:35 <andrew12> heh
3551 2011-02-18 22:24:36 <andrew12> 2011-02-18 17:16:40 -0500 - REM BID        297.39 @ 0.900001
3552 2011-02-18 22:24:36 <andrew12> 2011-02-18 17:16:41 -0500 - NEW BID        297.38 @ 0.900001
3553 2011-02-18 22:25:12 ntosme2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3554 2011-02-18 22:26:20 <midnightmagic> panic sellers done?
3555 2011-02-18 22:26:28 <andrew12> maybe
3556 2011-02-18 22:26:32 <ThomasV> panic buyers now
3557 2011-02-18 22:26:43 <midnightmagic> back and forth. lame.
3558 2011-02-18 22:27:02 <andrew12> well what id you expect?
3559 2011-02-18 22:27:06 <andrew12> did*
3560 2011-02-18 22:27:20 <ArtForz> fun!
3561 2011-02-18 22:27:27 <brunner> yes, I'm loving this.
3562 2011-02-18 22:27:32 <andrew12> hehe
3563 2011-02-18 22:27:50 <midnightmagic> my bot's not done yet dammit! that's what's lame!
3564 2011-02-18 22:29:59 <andrew12> only thing the mtgox api is missing is a account history
3565 2011-02-18 22:30:18 <andrew12> s/a //
3566 2011-02-18 22:31:11 bk128-Droid has joined
3567 2011-02-18 22:32:03 sethsethseth has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
3568 2011-02-18 22:34:31 Lube has quit ()
3569 2011-02-18 22:36:40 foucist has joined
3570 2011-02-18 22:36:50 <foucist> ;;bc,calc 550000
3571 2011-02-18 22:36:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 550000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 3 days, 7 hours, 5 minutes, and 16 seconds
3572 2011-02-18 22:37:37 <brunner> I want more BTC!!
3573 2011-02-18 22:37:47 <andrew12> brunner: me too!
3574 2011-02-18 22:37:49 <bk128-Droid> ;;bc,stats
3575 2011-02-18 22:37:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109015 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1864 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, 5 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 53601.18012654
3576 2011-02-18 22:38:53 renovatio34 has joined
3577 2011-02-18 22:39:04 <devon_hillard> the good old game of timing the market :)
3578 2011-02-18 22:39:14 <devon_hillard> AKA the casino game
3579 2011-02-18 22:39:19 <ArtForz> yep
3580 2011-02-18 22:39:38 <ThomasV> ArtForz: did you initiate it ?
3581 2011-02-18 22:39:47 <ArtForz> pretty much
3582 2011-02-18 22:39:56 <devon_hillard> the upswing or the downswing?
3583 2011-02-18 22:40:03 <ArtForz> both... kinda
3584 2011-02-18 22:40:05 <devon_hillard> or both? :)
3585 2011-02-18 22:40:08 <devon_hillard> lol
3586 2011-02-18 22:40:20 <devon_hillard> sold my coins at the top
3587 2011-02-18 22:40:30 <devon_hillard> parity hit the news, by then it was going down
3588 2011-02-18 22:40:55 <xelister> foucist: nvidia sucks cocks, eh?
3589 2011-02-18 22:40:59 <bk128-Droid> Art: gearing up for another sauce buy?
3590 2011-02-18 22:41:01 <renovatio34> hello I can not run CUDA with my nvidia card I have the following error: Unable to load module CUDA
3591 2011-02-18 22:41:02 <ArtForz> sold about 5k a bit >$1, bought em back ~0.8
3592 2011-02-18 22:41:14 * andrew12 kicks ArtForz 
3593 2011-02-18 22:41:15 <devon_hillard> nvidia sucks cocks in bitcoin
3594 2011-02-18 22:41:20 <foucist> xelister: why did you aim that at me?
3595 2011-02-18 22:41:34 <devon_hillard> it's difficult to compare ati and nvidia for GPGPU 'in general'
3596 2011-02-18 22:41:36 <xelister> foucist: oh wait, 550 not 55. nm :)
3597 2011-02-18 22:41:39 <foucist> xelister: at any rate, i have no gpus at all :P
3598 2011-02-18 22:41:44 <xelister> oh
3599 2011-02-18 22:42:05 <devon_hillard> and, say, you want physX, only nvidia has that
3600 2011-02-18 22:42:22 <xelister> isnt physX totall bullshit and scam
3601 2011-02-18 22:42:28 <ArtForz> it pretty much is
3602 2011-02-18 22:42:29 <xelister> you need it for what
3603 2011-02-18 22:42:29 <devon_hillard> some games are using it
3604 2011-02-18 22:42:35 <xelister> for what
3605 2011-02-18 22:42:45 <ArtForz> they cripple cpu mode on purpose
3606 2011-02-18 22:42:46 <devon_hillard> physics deformation calculations
3607 2011-02-18 22:42:52 <xelister> simulatin 1 milion dust particles realistically bouncing off wals in dust_2 ?
3608 2011-02-18 22:43:01 <devon_hillard> like that RPG set on mars, don't remember the name
3609 2011-02-18 22:43:06 <bk128-Droid> Asic stupid phone
3610 2011-02-18 22:43:08 <ArtForz> games that *need* physics usually use havok
3611 2011-02-18 22:43:14 <ArtForz> or some other cpu physics engine
3612 2011-02-18 22:43:28 <devon_hillard> red faction IIRC
3613 2011-02-18 22:43:44 <midnightmagic> that was a good game..
3614 2011-02-18 22:43:45 <ArtForz> games that just use physics for eye candy, physx is fine
3615 2011-02-18 22:43:54 <xelister> dejavu
3616 2011-02-18 22:43:57 <xelister> red faction
3617 2011-02-18 22:44:00 <xelister> 1 mont ago here on irc
3618 2011-02-18 22:44:03 <devon_hillard> collision detection?
3619 2011-02-18 22:44:04 <ArtForz> yep
3620 2011-02-18 22:44:09 <ArtForz> ?
3621 2011-02-18 22:44:11 <bk128-Droid> I can't believe a 5k sell did that
3622 2011-02-18 22:44:41 <midnightmagic> lol, Art crashed mtgox.
3623 2011-02-18 22:44:48 <devon_hillard> "Sphere collision tests: 530 million per second (maximum capability)
3624 2011-02-18 22:44:49 <devon_hillard> Convex collision tests: 530,000 per second (maximum capability)""
3625 2011-02-18 22:44:57 <ArtForz> well, normally it wouldnt
3626 2011-02-18 22:44:59 <dstufft> is the testnet setup to generate bitcoins a lot faster then normal?
3627 2011-02-18 22:45:01 foucist has left ()
3628 2011-02-18 22:45:01 mbarkhau has left ()
3629 2011-02-18 22:45:20 <ArtForz> but market has been pretty slow for the last few days
3630 2011-02-18 22:45:28 <bk128-Droid> Low volume?
3631 2011-02-18 22:45:31 <ArtForz> yea
3632 2011-02-18 22:45:34 <midnightmagic> so, thinks Art, I think I'll spice it up a little. :)
3633 2011-02-18 22:45:39 <ArtForz> yep
3634 2011-02-18 22:46:00 <bk128-Droid> The charts looked too nice before
3635 2011-02-18 22:46:01 <molecular> hmm, friends cpu: bitcoin: 5000Khash/s, jgarzig cpuminer: 1500Khash/s ?!?
3636 2011-02-18 22:46:05 <ArtForz> = people are waiting for any decent movement and jump on the bandwagon
3637 2011-02-18 22:46:20 renovatio34 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3638 2011-02-18 22:46:51 mbarkhau has joined
3639 2011-02-18 22:46:55 <ArtForz> really a win-win situation
3640 2011-02-18 22:46:56 <devon_hillard> molecular: crappy gpu: 65Mhash/s
3641 2011-02-18 22:47:34 <bk128-Droid> I think a lot of bitcoin users don't have a clue about economics
3642 2011-02-18 22:47:52 <midnightmagic> course not, why would they?
3643 2011-02-18 22:48:03 <devon_hillard> a 5570 uses 30W and does the work of 5 core i7
3644 2011-02-18 22:48:18 <molecular> devon_hillard, I know
3645 2011-02-18 22:48:35 <andrew12> devon_hillard: running a cluster of 5970's: priceless
3646 2011-02-18 22:48:43 ZenMondo has left ()
3647 2011-02-18 22:48:53 <molecular> still, why would cpuminer do less than the bitcoin-builtin miner?
3648 2011-02-18 22:48:56 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3649 2011-02-18 22:48:59 <andrew12> molecular: tried the different algos?
3650 2011-02-18 22:49:12 <midnightmagic> you're running it/compiling it wrong?
3651 2011-02-18 22:49:16 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
3652 2011-02-18 22:49:25 <ArtForz> probably
3653 2011-02-18 22:49:34 <molecular> andrew12, tried all algos and threads 1, 4, 8
3654 2011-02-18 22:49:36 <andrew12> molecular: and running it with --threads as the number of cores their pc has?
3655 2011-02-18 22:49:39 <andrew12> huh
3656 2011-02-18 22:49:55 <andrew12> no idea
3657 2011-02-18 22:50:05 mbarkhau has left ()
3658 2011-02-18 22:50:07 mbarkhau has joined
3659 2011-02-18 22:50:27 <molecular> andrew12, it's in a vm, too 8-)
3660 2011-02-18 22:50:36 <molecular> weird shit
3661 2011-02-18 22:50:40 <andrew12> heh
3662 2011-02-18 22:50:53 <molecular> well, he wants to mine, and solo is shit for him with 5Mhash/s
3663 2011-02-18 22:51:28 <ArtForz> pretty much anything is shit with 5Mhash/s
3664 2011-02-18 22:51:51 <andrew12> molecular: did you make the bitcoin client stop mining before running minerd?
3665 2011-02-18 22:52:05 <devon_hillard> I wonder if you can run a VM with native hardware acceleration from another VM with the same capabilities, would the hardware access functions be exploited by the second level of VMs?
3666 2011-02-18 22:52:18 <ArtForz> ;;bc,gen 5000
3667 2011-02-18 22:52:19 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 0.137936300057 BTC per day and 0.0057473458357 BTC per hour.
3668 2011-02-18 22:52:39 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,gen 65000
3669 2011-02-18 22:52:40 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 65000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1.79317190074 BTC per day and 0.0747154958641 BTC per hour.
3670 2011-02-18 22:52:42 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 900000
3671 2011-02-18 22:52:43 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 900000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 24.8285340102 BTC per day and 1.03452225043 BTC per hour.
3672 2011-02-18 22:52:44 <andrew12> devon_hillard: not sure why you would even want to do that
3673 2011-02-18 22:52:59 <andrew12> ;;bc,gen 2000
3674 2011-02-18 22:53:00 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 0.0551745200227 BTC per day and 0.00229893833428 BTC per hour.
3675 2011-02-18 22:53:05 <ArtForz> ;;bc,gend 5000 54000
3676 2011-02-18 22:53:06 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 54000, is 0.0931322574615 BTC per day and 0.00388051072756 BTC per hour.
3677 2011-02-18 22:53:18 <andrew12> ;;bc,gend 1000 1
3678 2011-02-18 22:53:18 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 1005.82838058 BTC per day and 41.9095158577 BTC per hour.
3679 2011-02-18 22:53:25 <andrew12> </testnet>
3680 2011-02-18 22:53:29 <andrew12> :p
3681 2011-02-18 22:53:31 <devon_hillard> andrew12: it would be like tail call optimizations (a vm inside a vm inside a vm, but all with direct hardware optimizations) :)
3682 2011-02-18 22:53:45 <andrew12> devon_hillard: but why?
3683 2011-02-18 22:53:51 <ArtForz> devon_hillard: iirc, no
3684 2011-02-18 22:53:54 <devon_hillard> andrew12: inception
3685 2011-02-18 22:53:56 ivan has joined
3686 2011-02-18 22:54:03 <ArtForz> at least not on x86
3687 2011-02-18 22:54:09 <andrew12> now i'm even more confusde
3688 2011-02-18 22:54:18 <devon_hillard> let's go to the next level
3689 2011-02-18 22:54:21 <andrew12> so confused that my keyboard won't permit me to type confused correctly
3690 2011-02-18 22:54:35 <RBecker> andrew12, sounds like a user error
3691 2011-02-18 22:54:43 <devon_hillard> your level of reality doesn't have the proper hardware access APIs
3692 2011-02-18 22:54:52 <devon_hillard> please upgrade to the latest version
3693 2011-02-18 22:54:56 <andrew12> heh
3694 2011-02-18 22:55:52 nathan7 has joined
3695 2011-02-18 22:56:02 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
3696 2011-02-18 22:56:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109019 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1860 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 16 hours, 44 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 54516.97439738
3697 2011-02-18 22:56:14 <midnightmagic> is that an accurate estimate?
3698 2011-02-18 22:56:24 <midnightmagic> or is it still settliong down?
3699 2011-02-18 22:56:40 <molecular> andrew12, yeah, we stoped generate coins, of course
3700 2011-02-18 22:56:44 <molecular> andrew12, it's weird
3701 2011-02-18 22:56:53 <molecular> andrew12, should we try puddinpop?
3702 2011-02-18 22:57:21 <andrew12> molecular: I DUNNO LOL ¯\(°_o)/¯
3703 2011-02-18 22:57:49 <ThomasV> ArtForz: why did you sell and buy the same amount, when you could have increased yout bitcoinage instead ?
3704 2011-02-18 22:57:56 <ThomasV> :-)
3705 2011-02-18 22:58:08 <ThomasV> I had to use that word
3706 2011-02-18 22:58:20 <andrew12> wat
3707 2011-02-18 22:58:56 <andrew12> midnightmagic: its definitely not accurate yet
3708 2011-02-18 22:59:15 <ArtForz> yeah
3709 2011-02-18 22:59:30 <ArtForz> but if growth continues at his rate, it is pretty close
3710 2011-02-18 22:59:36 <andrew12> indeed
3711 2011-02-18 22:59:59 <andrew12> necrodearia: you run nullvoid.org right?
3712 2011-02-18 23:01:16 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
3713 2011-02-18 23:02:34 <[Tycho]> I'm missing the nullvoid.org lately :(
3714 2011-02-18 23:02:41 <andrew12> me too.
3715 2011-02-18 23:02:51 <andrew12> specifically it's block duration graphs
3716 2011-02-18 23:10:00 pogden has joined
3717 2011-02-18 23:10:52 satamusic_ has joined
3718 2011-02-18 23:13:13 <midnightmagic> it occurs to me that mtgox would attract a great deal more influx of btc *and* LR during the times of market instability.
3719 2011-02-18 23:13:15 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3720 2011-02-18 23:13:32 <midnightmagic> at least short term
3721 2011-02-18 23:13:44 noagendamarket has joined
3722 2011-02-18 23:17:00 <Kiba> there's boring time
3723 2011-02-18 23:17:02 <Kiba> and there's fun time
3724 2011-02-18 23:17:24 <echelon> hey Kiba
3725 2011-02-18 23:18:28 <Kiba> somebody decide to say spectulation is bad..and I am questioning him for not providing logical support for his conclusion
3726 2011-02-18 23:18:39 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3727 2011-02-18 23:19:08 <echelon> i have come to the conclusion that it's not
3728 2011-02-18 23:19:25 <echelon> i was only mad because i was trying to bye -_-
3729 2011-02-18 23:21:34 <Kiba> bye?
3730 2011-02-18 23:21:42 <echelon> err
3731 2011-02-18 23:21:43 <grubles> does anyone know if that twit bitcoin discussion is in downloadable form yet?
3732 2011-02-18 23:21:43 <echelon> buy*
3733 2011-02-18 23:22:02 bk128 has joined
3734 2011-02-18 23:22:06 <grubles> the video not just the audio*
3735 2011-02-18 23:22:42 <qisco> http://twit.tv/sn288
3736 2011-02-18 23:23:09 gr0gmint has joined
3737 2011-02-18 23:24:12 <grubles> qisco, ty
3738 2011-02-18 23:27:17 BitterTea has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3739 2011-02-18 23:27:28 <bk128> are the sapphire 5870's with the fan in the middle the first or second revision? + are they better?
3740 2011-02-18 23:31:09 mbarkhau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3741 2011-02-18 23:31:18 * [Tycho] prefers reference cards :)
3742 2011-02-18 23:35:04 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
3743 2011-02-18 23:36:25 <bk128> who makes those?
3744 2011-02-18 23:36:56 <bk128> ATI designed board + components?
3745 2011-02-18 23:37:52 <bk128> ah http://www.overclock.net/ati/705075-how-tell-ati-5xxx-reference-card.html
3746 2011-02-18 23:38:24 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3747 2011-02-18 23:39:10 oyfpolly has joined
3748 2011-02-18 23:39:40 larsig has joined
3749 2011-02-18 23:39:55 satamusic_ is now known as satamusic
3750 2011-02-18 23:40:02 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
3751 2011-02-18 23:40:02 satamusic has joined
3752 2011-02-18 23:40:41 <larsig> Hello guys, Bitcoin Stock Exchange will be available for beta testing in a short period. http://bitsex.org/
3753 2011-02-18 23:40:48 oyfpolly has quit (Client Quit)
3754 2011-02-18 23:41:46 <ArtForz> great name :P
3755 2011-02-18 23:41:48 malfy has joined
3756 2011-02-18 23:42:21 <larsig> :)
3757 2011-02-18 23:42:23 jrabbit has joined
3758 2011-02-18 23:43:26 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3759 2011-02-18 23:44:29 <comboy> hahahahhahaha
3760 2011-02-18 23:44:46 <comboy> you made my day
3761 2011-02-18 23:45:04 <[Tycho]> Many 5970s are really produced by ATI, the difference only in decals.
3762 2011-02-18 23:45:14 <ArtForz> actually the mfg is sapphire
3763 2011-02-18 23:45:19 <[Tycho]> Those have "AMD" letters near PCIe connector.
3764 2011-02-18 23:45:36 <[Tycho]> But other reference cards are the same anyway.
3765 2011-02-18 23:45:38 <ArtForz> pretty much all ati reference cards are built by sapphire
3766 2011-02-18 23:46:15 <ArtForz> and yeah, difference is just decals and packaging
3767 2011-02-18 23:46:41 chaord has quit (Quit: chaord)
3768 2011-02-18 23:46:50 <[Tycho]> Yes, by same mfg
3769 2011-02-18 23:47:31 <ArtForz> only slightly sucky part is stock cards from AIBs that also have a OC edition of the reference card
3770 2011-02-18 23:48:08 <ArtForz> = they speed bin the batch of ref cards they get, good ones become OC editions, rest gets sold as normal cards
3771 2011-02-18 23:48:21 <[Tycho]> My 5970 and 5870 have different coutry of origin on their stickers :)
3772 2011-02-18 23:48:32 <larsig> bitsex will be up as soon as i can get a proper server to host it on
3773 2011-02-18 23:48:34 <ArtForz> thats... weird
3774 2011-02-18 23:48:42 <larsig> out of memory right now:)
3775 2011-02-18 23:49:19 <ArtForz> of course later "reference" 5870s really aren't
3776 2011-02-18 23:50:24 <ArtForz> small example, late XFX "ref" 5870s have a slightly different cooler design
3777 2011-02-18 23:50:49 <ArtForz> same PCB and components, *slightly* different cooler and fan
3778 2011-02-18 23:52:13 <ArtForz> very fun if card is out of warranty and the fan dies for some reason, as the fan of a real ref cooler won't fit
3779 2011-02-18 23:52:41 <[Tycho]> You had fan failures ?
3780 2011-02-18 23:52:55 <ArtForz> nope
3781 2011-02-18 23:53:16 <ArtForz> friend of mine had, but not mining related
3782 2011-02-18 23:53:33 <ArtForz> well, except for a few cheap 5770s
3783 2011-02-18 23:53:48 <ArtForz> but I expected the fans on those to be suckage from the start
3784 2011-02-18 23:55:19 <[Tycho]> Not same as ref 5870 ?
3785 2011-02-18 23:55:36 <ArtForz> yeah
3786 2011-02-18 23:55:46 <ArtForz> at first glance it *looks* the same
3787 2011-02-18 23:55:59 <ArtForz> but it's actually a bit smaller
3788 2011-02-18 23:56:28 <ArtForz> pretty hard to tell if you dont have one sitting right next to a real ref card
3789 2011-02-18 23:56:53 bk128-Droid has joined
3790 2011-02-18 23:57:25 <[Tycho]> Ref cooler is amazing
3791 2011-02-18 23:57:42 <[Tycho]> I mean, it's sound on high RPM is amazigly loud
3792 2011-02-18 23:57:59 <ArtForz> yep
3793 2011-02-18 23:58:14 <ArtForz> iirc it doesn't ever go >50% with stock fan profile
3794 2011-02-18 23:58:40 LtBrenton has joined
3795 2011-02-18 23:58:52 <bk128-Droid> Art: why do xfx cards suck?  I just got 2 today that I ordered before I knew
3796 2011-02-18 23:59:29 <ArtForz> well, not all do
3797 2011-02-18 23:59:36 <ArtForz> but they pulled shit like this a few times
3798 2011-02-18 23:59:39 grubles has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)