1 2011-02-20 00:00:03 <glassresistor> does bitcoind update immediately or after 3 blocks or so
   2 2011-02-20 00:00:14 <glassresistor> nm thy showed up
   3 2011-02-20 00:00:15 <tcatm> is the TX confirmed?
   4 2011-02-20 00:01:24 <Syke> you don't send coins to "different computer". you broadcast the transaction to whatever part of the network you are connected to. eventually a "different computer" will see the transaction.
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  24 2011-02-20 00:43:34 <TheKid> anyone know what the format of wallet.dat is?>
  25 2011-02-20 00:43:44 <tcatm> bdb
  26 2011-02-20 00:43:53 <citiz3n> TheKid, send it to me and I'll take a look
  27 2011-02-20 00:44:06 <tcatm> TheKid: see gavin's bitcointools
  28 2011-02-20 00:44:48 <TheKid> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_DB#Programs_that_use_Berkeley_DB
  29 2011-02-20 00:44:52 <TheKid> someone should add bitcoin to that list then
  30 2011-02-20 00:46:36 <TheKid> is it possible to add a bitcoin address to a wallet given it's private key?
  31 2011-02-20 00:53:48 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  32 2011-02-20 00:57:02 <luke-jr> tcatm: o.o
  33 2011-02-20 00:57:14 <gwillen> TheKid: I know someone has written code to convert an openpgp-format private key to a wallet
  34 2011-02-20 00:57:18 <tcatm> luke-jr: hm? patch file?
  35 2011-02-20 00:57:19 <gwillen> I don't remmeber how to find it
  36 2011-02-20 00:57:34 <luke-jr> tcatm: try Spesmilo:tonal yet? :D
  37 2011-02-20 00:57:46 <tcatm> nope
  38 2011-02-20 00:58:18 <tcatm> Last time I tried spesmilo I didn't even work without some bug fixing so I consider it very early alpha
  39 2011-02-20 00:58:21 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo/archive-tarball/tonal
  40 2011-02-20 00:58:30 <luke-jr> tcatm: I fixed most of the bugs first ofc
  41 2011-02-20 00:58:49 <luke-jr> now it should just work
  42 2011-02-20 00:59:00 <luke-jr> albeit, still not many features
  43 2011-02-20 00:59:06 <luke-jr> (eg, no accounts)
  44 2011-02-20 00:59:20 <tcatm> I want to port some code from js-remote when I have time
  45 2011-02-20 01:00:23 <luke-jr> tcatm: it has better formatting code than the one I wrote for you before
  46 2011-02-20 01:00:36 <tcatm> what does it do better?
  47 2011-02-20 01:00:41 <luke-jr> well, it's configurable
  48 2011-02-20 01:00:51 <luke-jr> it can be configured to Assume/Prefer/Force either Decimal or Tonal
  49 2011-02-20 01:01:00 xelister_ has joined
  50 2011-02-20 01:01:03 <tcatm> Oh well, that's no problem
  51 2011-02-20 01:01:13 <luke-jr> also, the Decimal formatting is not floating-point
  52 2011-02-20 01:01:25 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  53 2011-02-20 01:01:27 <luke-jr> right. because #bitcoin-monitor can't be configured by end-users
  54 2011-02-20 01:01:38 <lunaphyte> TheKid: man 1 file
  55 2011-02-20 01:01:52 <luke-jr> the code I wrote for you was somewhere between Assume and Prefer for the guessing algorithm
  56 2011-02-20 01:01:56 <tcatm> Yep and because Tonal's userbase is pretty small.
  57 2011-02-20 01:01:58 <xelister_> fuck fuckity fuck fuck
  58 2011-02-20 01:02:04 xelister_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  59 2011-02-20 01:02:14 <luke-jr> tcatm: now that we have a GUI client, that will hopefully change ☺
  60 2011-02-20 01:03:07 <tcatm> Can someone (with a working wx build env) try out http://pastebin.com/syZJzRLp and see if it even compiles? :)
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  67 2011-02-20 01:09:13 <TheKid> lunaphyte: what?
  68 2011-02-20 01:10:39 <lunaphyte> just offering up the name of a program which is useful in determining what files are, since it sounded like you might not be familiar with it.
  69 2011-02-20 01:12:02 johnyh has joined
  70 2011-02-20 01:12:51 <TheKid> ah, thanks
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  73 2011-02-20 01:17:59  is now known as Animeking|!~kvirc@c-174-61-77-1.hsd1.fl.comcast.net|Edogaa
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  76 2011-02-20 01:23:35 <Blitzboom> how does the key pool work?
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  78 2011-02-20 01:23:54 <Blitzboom> 100 in the keypool and it randomly gives you one of them?
  79 2011-02-20 01:24:07 <tcatm> oldest first
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  82 2011-02-20 01:24:50 <Blitzboom> why can’t i generate the same adress as before then?
  83 2011-02-20 01:24:55 <Blitzboom> with an earlier wallet
  84 2011-02-20 01:25:23 <Blitzboom> wait, nvm. i guess it is the same
  85 2011-02-20 01:26:24 <Blitzboom> yup
  86 2011-02-20 01:26:40 <Blitzboom> that’s cool
  87 2011-02-20 01:28:04 <Blitzboom> will there always be such a high variance in the time between blocks?
  88 2011-02-20 01:28:24 <Blitzboom> i guess that’s how it must be
  89 2011-02-20 01:28:52 <nanotube> yes
  90 2011-02-20 01:29:01 <Blitzboom> because it’s a lottery
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  92 2011-02-20 01:34:15 grondilu has joined
  93 2011-02-20 01:34:32 <grondilu> an other auction for a gold coin !!  http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=312
  94 2011-02-20 01:35:18 <tcatm> Hm reminds me that I still have to make a golden bitcoin
  95 2011-02-20 01:37:10 <Blitzboom> didn’t know of this site yet
  96 2011-02-20 01:37:12 <Blitzboom> cool
  97 2011-02-20 01:39:31 Slix` has joined
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  99 2011-02-20 01:43:43 <validus> i was glad to see the gaming site on there that is awesome he does that
 100 2011-02-20 01:49:43 <bitcoiner> gaming site ?
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 107 2011-02-20 02:02:58 <glassresistor> hey i lost my list of blocks
 108 2011-02-20 02:03:20 <glassresistor> anyone got a backup of all the blocks up to some recent time?
 109 2011-02-20 02:03:47 <glassresistor> i tried to use a blkindex but it said it had read errors
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 111 2011-02-20 02:04:31 <jgarzik> luke-jr: what is a URL that will display an RPCv1 patch, diff'd versus mainline?  ie. the final patch that would be applied to bitcoin.
 112 2011-02-20 02:05:28 <glassresistor> i have an old one but it said it couldn't use it, i assume it a version problem
 113 2011-02-20 02:06:00 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I'm not sure how to do that on a web interface
 114 2011-02-20 02:06:29 <luke-jr> git fetch git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo.git tonal && git diff -r b1a657a..FETCH_HEAD # I think
 115 2011-02-20 02:06:34 <luke-jr> err
 116 2011-02-20 02:06:40 <luke-jr> that's the wrong repo
 117 2011-02-20 02:07:04 <luke-jr> git fetch git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin.git neutral && git diff -r b1a657a..FETCH_HEAD # I think
 118 2011-02-20 02:07:21 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 119 2011-02-20 02:07:43 <glassresistor> is there a way to get bitcoind to connect through a local computer so itll dl the blocks quickly?
 120 2011-02-20 02:07:49 ducki2p has joined
 121 2011-02-20 02:08:46 <citiz3n> i think you can sneakernet the block file over to a different system
 122 2011-02-20 02:09:05 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that work for you?
 123 2011-02-20 02:09:20 bk128-Droid has joined
 124 2011-02-20 02:09:38 <jgarzik> luke-jr: if you want people to review it, you need an easy Web URL with the patch
 125 2011-02-20 02:10:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: does GitHub do it? could you pull it somewhere there, and make a URI for it?
 126 2011-02-20 02:10:33 <glassresistor> seriously no one can send me there blkindex.dat file
 127 2011-02-20 02:10:47 <glassresistor> i don't want to wait like 10 hours to test my radeon uild
 128 2011-02-20 02:11:07 <bk128-Droid> Not me
 129 2011-02-20 02:11:21 <bk128-Droid> If I was on my laptop I could :)
 130 2011-02-20 02:12:06 <glassresistor> wish bitcoind let you connect through an ip, then it coul download from my laptop
 131 2011-02-20 02:12:42 <glassresistor> but for some reason when i copied the blk file it said it wasn't valid
 132 2011-02-20 02:12:52 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 133 2011-02-20 02:13:03 <jgarzik> luke-jr: create a for-review branch, with just one commit ( git diff b1a657a..FETCH_HEAD )
 134 2011-02-20 02:13:12 <jgarzik> luke-jr: then your web stuff should work as-is
 135 2011-02-20 02:13:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: someone might get tempted to merge that branch? :P
 136 2011-02-20 02:13:35 <jgarzik> luke-jr: you never know...
 137 2011-02-20 02:13:48 Blitzboom has joined
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 139 2011-02-20 02:13:48 Blitzboom has joined
 140 2011-02-20 02:14:01 <jgarzik> luke-jr: a single commit will be the final form when merged into bitcoin anyway, so that needs to happen eventually.
 141 2011-02-20 02:14:18 <bk128-Droid> I had to copy 2 files for the blocks. The index and blk001.dat or something
 142 2011-02-20 02:14:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: it shouldn't be, it should be a simple pull
 143 2011-02-20 02:14:52 <luke-jr> oh, you mean the merge commit?
 144 2011-02-20 02:15:25 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I mean the final, ready-to-be-merged form should be a single commit, which is then submitted as a pull request.  We don't want to import your entire devel history of this patch.
 145 2011-02-20 02:15:45 <jgarzik> luke-jr: as with the Linux kernel, that keeps the tree clean for bisection
 146 2011-02-20 02:15:53 <glassresistor> so how do i join a pool?
 147 2011-02-20 02:16:17 <jgarzik> glassresistor: read the instructions at http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
 148 2011-02-20 02:16:47 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that sounds like it defeats the entire point of a DVCS
 149 2011-02-20 02:18:13 erikR has joined
 150 2011-02-20 02:19:36 <jgarzik> luke-jr: the original author of git disagrees
 151 2011-02-20 02:19:45 <soultcer> noooooo
 152 2011-02-20 02:19:51 <jgarzik> read Linus's many rants about bisection and a decent history :)
 153 2011-02-20 02:19:51 <glassresistor> jgarzik: that was helpful but how do i join them after i register is the what getwork is work?
 154 2011-02-20 02:19:52 <luke-jr> you could use Subversion to get the same functionality
 155 2011-02-20 02:20:07 <luke-jr> jgarzik: decent history != merge-only history
 156 2011-02-20 02:20:08 <jgarzik> glassresistor: I cannot parse that question
 157 2011-02-20 02:20:41 <soultcer> jgarzik: It is much better to submit multiple patches if you want your new stuff accepted into Linux
 158 2011-02-20 02:20:43 Diablo-D3 has joined
 159 2011-02-20 02:21:01 <soultcer> Each patch should change only small, logical blocks, so that it still stands for itself and is easy to review
 160 2011-02-20 02:21:06 molecular has quit (zapp!~molecular@e176110093.adsl.alicedsl.de|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 161 2011-02-20 02:21:15 <luke-jr> jgarzik: a decent history, should have each logical change as a commit
 162 2011-02-20 02:21:38 <soultcer> luke-jr: Couldn't have said it better!
 163 2011-02-20 02:21:46 <jgarzik> soultcer: not quite correct.  each change should be a logical BISECTABLE change; size has nothing to do with it.
 164 2011-02-20 02:22:14 <jgarzik> early devel history almost always includes crap that doesn't build
 165 2011-02-20 02:22:22 <jgarzik> we keep that stuff out of the Linux tree
 166 2011-02-20 02:22:51 <luke-jr> you shouldn't need to bisect merged tree commits, unless it was the merge that introduced the problem
 167 2011-02-20 02:23:09 <luke-jr> that would indicate a flaw in the bisect algorithm, IMO
 168 2011-02-20 02:23:53 <soultcer> jgarzik: I almost agree. It shouldn't be a BISECTABLE change, it should be a logical change (logical changes of course are bisectable)
 169 2011-02-20 02:24:06 <jgarzik> soultcer: for example, you don't merge kernel patch series like this:  commit A:  "raw driver draft; doesn't build"   commit B: "build fixes"  commit C: "more driver fixes"    You just merge the new driver.
 170 2011-02-20 02:24:35 <jgarzik> You don't merge the entire history (A/B/C)
 171 2011-02-20 02:24:35 <soultcer> jgarzik: But you don't see a commit called "Add completely new filesystem called ext4"
 172 2011-02-20 02:24:58 <soultcer> It
 173 2011-02-20 02:25:14 <soultcer> It's about having a nice stack of patches thath builds on each other
 174 2011-02-20 02:25:20 <jgarzik> soultcer: Incorrect; that is commit ac27a0ec112a089f1a5102bc8dffc79c8c815571
 175 2011-02-20 02:25:45 <luke-jr> s/don't/shouldn't
 176 2011-02-20 02:25:47 <jgarzik> soultcer: new code generally does not build unless it's all together in one patch!
 177 2011-02-20 02:26:08 <luke-jr> the first ext4 commit should be "Copied ext3 filesystem, and renamed it to ext4"
 178 2011-02-20 02:26:13 <jgarzik> it is
 179 2011-02-20 02:26:43 <Blitzboom> how long does the client wait if he can’t confirm a transaction?
 180 2011-02-20 02:26:53 <Blitzboom> if it*
 181 2011-02-20 02:27:17 <tcatm> Blitzboom: 1 block + random interval upto 30 mins IIRC
 182 2011-02-20 02:27:41 <Blitzboom> what does it show if it’s definitely unconfirmed?
 183 2011-02-20 02:27:58 <jgarzik> wait...  until what?  until resending?  until giving up completely?
 184 2011-02-20 02:28:05 <tcatm> define "definitely unconfirmed"
 185 2011-02-20 02:28:14 <soultcer> jgarzik: The commit you mention proves my point. It is just the beginning of ext4 work by copying data from ext3
 186 2011-02-20 02:28:20 <soultcer> Which is a nice logical step
 187 2011-02-20 02:28:30 <soultcer> Hm, kind of like a transaction in a database
 188 2011-02-20 02:28:34 erikR has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 189 2011-02-20 02:29:15 <luke-jr> RPCv1 is multiple logical steps
 190 2011-02-20 02:29:39 <luke-jr> first, add server support. then client support. then format amounts with a trailing ".0" to workaround buggy libraries on the other end
 191 2011-02-20 02:30:07 <luke-jr> (I think there's a few others in between, but they all compile and work)
 192 2011-02-20 02:30:38 <luke-jr> if it didn't compile, I'd be quickly doing a --amend :P
 193 2011-02-20 02:34:58 <jgarzik> soultcer: yes, it's a logical step...  that notably did not import a big long transaction history.  Importing foreign histories is something we make an -exception- for with new code.  We made an exception for btrfs, most recently.  But generally we do -not- import pre-initial-merge histories, for very good reasons.  It clutters the tree with crap.
 194 2011-02-20 02:35:00 <glassresistor> jgarzik: once i register my workers how do i tell me workers to send hashes to the pool
 195 2011-02-20 02:35:25 <jgarzik> glassresistor: set your username, password, hostname and port in your mining client
 196 2011-02-20 02:35:43 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 197 2011-02-20 02:35:55 <bk128-Droid> glassresistor: look at the guide on the forum
 198 2011-02-20 02:36:01 <soultcer> jgarzik: I totally agree on not importing developement history. But when you create a large patch do the kernel, you generally split it up into logical chunks, creating a full patchset
 199 2011-02-20 02:36:19 <luke-jr> jgarzik: sounds like a problem with the tree display tool
 200 2011-02-20 02:36:37 brunner has quit (Changing host)
 201 2011-02-20 02:36:37 brunner has joined
 202 2011-02-20 02:36:47 <Slix`> So.. when you connect to the bitcoin network, you first need the ip address of another node. What would that node be called? Bootstrap node? Initializer node? Uhh..
 203 2011-02-20 02:36:51 <luke-jr> and one reason Bazaar is nicer than Git ;)
 204 2011-02-20 02:36:52 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no, it's lessons learned from the biggest git project in the world
 205 2011-02-20 02:37:03 <jgarzik> luke-jr: people put crap in their trees, which cannot be bisected
 206 2011-02-20 02:37:13 <luke-jr> jgarzik: again, it doesn't *need* to be bisected
 207 2011-02-20 02:37:19 <luke-jr> unless it does. then you want it there.
 208 2011-02-20 02:37:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: then put it all in one freakin patch :)
 209 2011-02-20 02:37:33 <glassresistor> jgarzik: oh so this onl works for gpu miners, i dont know of any cpu miners that do that
 210 2011-02-20 02:37:39 <soultcer> jgarzik: But a patchset, where each patch stands for itself and is only 1000 lines of code changed it much easier to handle than one patch with 1 million lines of code changed
 211 2011-02-20 02:37:40 <luke-jr> if it needs to be bisected, a giant "does everything" patch is a bigger pain
 212 2011-02-20 02:37:59 <jgarzik> glassresistor: all miners except the built-in bitcoin miner accept username/password/host/port
 213 2011-02-20 02:37:59 <luke-jr> merging only single patches, is what Subversion does best.
 214 2011-02-20 02:38:35 <soultcer> Afaik Linus rejected single big patches before. They are just impossible to review and don't help bisecting at all.
 215 2011-02-20 02:38:35 <Slix`> :<
 216 2011-02-20 02:39:00 baloo has joined
 217 2011-02-20 02:39:18 <jgarzik> soultcer: /changes/ to the kernel are split up.  New features are not.
 218 2011-02-20 02:39:25 baloo is now known as Guest75966
 219 2011-02-20 02:39:46 <jgarzik> or, you'll see change (4 lines), change (56 lines), new feature (10,000 lines)
 220 2011-02-20 02:40:09 <jgarzik> soultcer: I think I have a little bit more experience dealing with Linus on this issue than you ;-)
 221 2011-02-20 02:40:17 Guest75966 has quit (Client Quit)
 222 2011-02-20 02:41:07 <soultcer> jgarzik: I don't doubt that you have. I think we are both trying to say the same thing, we are just phrasing it both so different that we think the other is saying the wrong thing
 223 2011-02-20 02:41:39 <soultcer> Of course you can't split up new features, because either a feature is there and working or it is not
 224 2011-02-20 02:41:48 <glassresistor> jgarzik: even bitcoind?
 225 2011-02-20 02:42:03 <glassresistor> off the git clone
 226 2011-02-20 02:42:39 <soultcer> But even if you add a new feature, my guess is that you will try to do it in small incremental patches, like with ext4, which was a patch series
 227 2011-02-20 02:43:04 <luke-jr> the point is to split a big new feature up into multiple smaller features, and use 1 commit for each of those
 228 2011-02-20 02:43:26 <soultcer> Of course, a commit that doesn't compile is not useful
 229 2011-02-20 02:44:29 <luke-jr> jgarzik: 1 command is *so* hard…
 230 2011-02-20 02:44:53 <luke-jr> anyone who doesn't already have a git repo, isn't going to understand the code anyway
 231 2011-02-20 02:45:18 Blitzboom has joined
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 233 2011-02-20 02:45:19 Blitzboom has joined
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 235 2011-02-20 02:51:36 xelister has quit (Changing host)
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 237 2011-02-20 02:52:47 hwolf has quit (Changing host)
 238 2011-02-20 02:52:47 hwolf has joined
 239 2011-02-20 02:52:56 <xelister> As we all know, Pulse Audio sucks a fat donkey's dong.  I offer 10 usd (15 btc) to who ever shows me how to configure PA on Ubuntu so that it plays as many users at once correctly (low latency, no problems, selects normal audio not HDMI shit etc)
 240 2011-02-20 02:54:02 <luke-jr> xelister: I'd personally suggest offering it for whoever shows you how to disable/remove that crap without breaking the rest of Ubuntu :P
 241 2011-02-20 02:54:03 <bk128-Droid> Wish
 242 2011-02-20 02:54:14 <bk128-Droid> Wish 10usd was 15btc
 243 2011-02-20 02:54:25 <glassresistor> sweet got the radeon working
 244 2011-02-20 02:54:32 <glassresistor> 110Mh/s woot
 245 2011-02-20 02:54:35 <xelister> luke-jr: unfortunatelly it seems SDL based games can only use PA shit to play audio
 246 2011-02-20 02:54:49 <bk128-Droid> Which one radeon?
 247 2011-02-20 02:54:57 <glassresistor> 5750
 248 2011-02-20 02:55:00 <bk128-Droid> Which radeon*
 249 2011-02-20 02:55:04 <luke-jr> xelister: nonsense
 250 2011-02-20 02:55:05 <bk128-Droid> Cool
 251 2011-02-20 02:55:29 <luke-jr> xelister: SDL is older than PA
 252 2011-02-20 02:55:32 <glassresistor> i bought and plan on returning it do get a 60XX, but wanted to make sure i got it working first
 253 2011-02-20 02:55:50 <luke-jr> glassresistor: 60XX suck
 254 2011-02-20 02:56:03 <glassresistor> luke-jr: what card do i want
 255 2011-02-20 02:56:07 <bk128-Droid> For Bitcoin.
 256 2011-02-20 02:56:07 <glassresistor> <300$
 257 2011-02-20 02:56:09 <glassresistor> yeah
 258 2011-02-20 02:56:18 <bk128-Droid> 5970
 259 2011-02-20 02:56:20 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
 260 2011-02-20 02:56:26 <luke-jr> bk128-Droid: he said <$300
 261 2011-02-20 02:56:44 <bk128-Droid> Oh.5870 are around $200 now
 262 2011-02-20 02:56:46 <luke-jr> glassresistor: I'd go for 5870 or 5850
 263 2011-02-20 02:57:05 <jgarzik> luke-jr: The principle is to make reviewing your code as easy as possible.  Bitching to potential reviewers about their laziness is quite counterproductive.  This is why Linus requests unified diff in pull requests ("unified" == all commits smushed together into a single diff).
 264 2011-02-20 02:57:10 <tcatm> xelister: pulseaudio --system?
 265 2011-02-20 02:57:22 <jgarzik> Make reviewing your code as easy as a single web click
 266 2011-02-20 02:57:23 <luke-jr> jgarzik: um, no. unified diff is a FORMAT.
 267 2011-02-20 02:57:31 <jgarzik> luke-jr: again, you are being too literal
 268 2011-02-20 02:57:39 <luke-jr> jgarzik: git can easily display a diff from one tree to another
 269 2011-02-20 02:57:50 <luke-jr> eg, that one-liner I posted
 270 2011-02-20 02:58:04 <luke-jr> jgarzik: no, you're redefining terms with set meanings
 271 2011-02-20 02:58:09 * jgarzik gives up
 272 2011-02-20 02:58:23 <xelister> tcatm: in such setup PA gladly proceeds to sucking the beformentioned dong, by giving me a latency of like 100-300 ms.  Also is likes to select my VIDEOcard as sound output.
 273 2011-02-20 02:58:29 <luke-jr> "unified diff" is a diff file format that mixes + and - lines
 274 2011-02-20 02:59:29 <jgarzik> I included a definition because my usage was different from the standard definition.  I can write "unified unified diff" if you really want to.
 275 2011-02-20 02:59:32 <tcatm> xelister: what's your pulseaudio config?
 276 2011-02-20 02:59:33 <xelister> + jgarzik gives up
 277 2011-02-20 02:59:39 <xelister> no wait
 278 2011-02-20 02:59:43 <jgarzik> hehe
 279 2011-02-20 02:59:48 <xelister> @@ #btcoin-dev
 280 2011-02-20 02:59:57 <xelister> - jgarzik gives up
 281 2011-02-20 02:59:58 <xelister> + jgarzik stayes positive
 282 2011-02-20 03:00:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: 'combined' would work
 283 2011-02-20 03:00:22 <xelister> tcatm: dunno.. the default one I suppose... plus tried enabled native plugin something.. didn't helped
 284 2011-02-20 03:01:09 <xelister> there is too much fail in software world. Windows. Linux. Audio systems. Pulse audio. Radeon drivers.
 285 2011-02-20 03:01:13 <jgarzik> reviewers need a combined, unified diff.  happy?  :)
 286 2011-02-20 03:01:20 booo has joined
 287 2011-02-20 03:01:23 <tcatm> xelister: read the source (pulse audio really lacks good documentation and the defaults suck)
 288 2011-02-20 03:01:36 <xelister> tcatm: that is exactly what I want to avoid
 289 2011-02-20 03:01:39 <jgarzik> The overall point is to reduce barriers to reviewers as much as possible.  That's why git-hardy Linux kernel hackers post patches to a mailing list.  To get reviewed.
 290 2011-02-20 03:01:42 <xelister> I want to play ,y fucking video game
 291 2011-02-20 03:01:53 <xelister> not suck milion geek's dongs by reading their stupid documentation
 292 2011-02-20 03:01:59 <xelister> as user I want to USE software not develop it :<
 293 2011-02-20 03:02:01 <xelister> ;)\
 294 2011-02-20 03:02:08 Jeroenz0r has joined
 295 2011-02-20 03:02:31 <xelister> after whole day in software dev I would like things to Just Work ®
 296 2011-02-20 03:03:24 * xelister is glad bathrooms etc are not designed by software engeeneres or our lifes would be x10 crapier
 297 2011-02-20 03:03:25 <tcatm> well I tracked down a pa bug few weeks ago and at last the source told me why it just can't work properly (code assumes it can do things just because most drivers can do them, without good exception handling) :)
 298 2011-02-20 03:04:33 <hwolf> I am interested in doing a mining pool, I have alot of reasources but new to bitcoin.  anybody have some experiance and want to chat?
 299 2011-02-20 03:04:54 <tcatm> hwolf: sure, what kind of hardware do you have?
 300 2011-02-20 03:05:22 <hwolf> I have 3 full cabinets in different parts of the usa, some ibm blade severers (full) and a bunch of dell servers etc
 301 2011-02-20 03:05:34 <xelister> hwolf: in writting a pool?
 302 2011-02-20 03:05:36 <hwolf> of course about 1/2 of it is being used, 1/2 idle
 303 2011-02-20 03:05:44 <xelister> btw are there now existing open source pools?
 304 2011-02-20 03:05:48 <tcatm> hwolf: with ATI GPUs?
 305 2011-02-20 03:05:59 <TheKid> tcatm: I believe he means host a mining pool
 306 2011-02-20 03:06:09 <jgarzik> xelister: there is open source pool software.  I don't know if anybody is running it in production.
 307 2011-02-20 03:06:11 <hwolf> ah, no just have cpu power for hosting the pool
 308 2011-02-20 03:06:21 <hwolf> but I am new,
 309 2011-02-20 03:06:24 <xelister> jgarzik: you mean your pool?
 310 2011-02-20 03:06:28 <xelister> url?
 311 2011-02-20 03:06:40 <jgarzik> xelister: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py
 312 2011-02-20 03:06:58 <xelister> hmm it works fine?
 313 2011-02-20 03:07:08 <xelister> it tracks per-user "score" to divide payout?
 314 2011-02-20 03:07:14 <jgarzik> xelister: yes
 315 2011-02-20 03:07:47 <TheKid> hwolf: if you get a pool setup that has a nice interface, I'd surely join :)
 316 2011-02-20 03:07:53 <jgarzik> woo!  My CPU miner won the lottery, and got a share in a short block.  Looking forward to that super-huge 0.06 BTC payout!
 317 2011-02-20 03:08:09 <Kiba> hmm
 318 2011-02-20 03:08:43 <jgarzik> slush's poll daily average reward has fallen quite a bit
 319 2011-02-20 03:08:56 <jgarzik> over 50% decline
 320 2011-02-20 03:10:15 <TheKid> jgarzik: two really long blocks today
 321 2011-02-20 03:11:05 <xelister> jgarzik: is it doing payouts?   it deletes some part of the shares-credit it seems?
 322 2011-02-20 03:11:53 hozer has left ()
 323 2011-02-20 03:13:45 jnd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 324 2011-02-20 03:20:10 ColdHardMetal_ is now known as ColdHardMetal
 325 2011-02-20 03:20:26 ColdHardMetal has quit (Changing host)
 326 2011-02-20 03:20:26 ColdHardMetal has joined
 327 2011-02-20 03:22:20 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 328 2011-02-20 03:23:02 xelister has joined
 329 2011-02-20 03:23:03 xelister has quit (Changing host)
 330 2011-02-20 03:23:03 xelister has joined
 331 2011-02-20 03:29:15 <jgarzik> xelister: payouts are a separate script.  pool server just collects shares.  when a winning solution is found, shares are converted into credits.  credits are payable, but the payout is not done directly by the server.
 332 2011-02-20 03:32:07 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 333 2011-02-20 03:34:51 ntosme2 has joined
 334 2011-02-20 03:36:10 grondilu has joined
 335 2011-02-20 03:37:23 Syke has joined
 336 2011-02-20 03:39:07 <necrodearia> Are there any experts on one or more programming languages (any language) that would be willing to volunteer their expertise and also to receive recurring profits from activity relating to the particular programming language?
 337 2011-02-20 03:39:11 <xelister> I see, cool
 338 2011-02-20 03:39:26 <necrodearia> If so, please come to #witcoin and indicate which languages you consider yourself an expert on.
 339 2011-02-20 03:39:57 <xelister> lolcode counts?
 340 2011-02-20 03:40:38 <TheKid> necrodearia: does english count?
 341 2011-02-20 03:41:38 Mango-chan has quit ()
 342 2011-02-20 03:41:57 <glassresistor> just order an 5850
 343 2011-02-20 03:42:17 <TheKid> glassresistor: did you get the link I posted
 344 2011-02-20 03:42:38 <TheKid> for the blkindex.dat
 345 2011-02-20 03:42:53 <glassresistor> no sorry but i already got them downloaded thanks though
 346 2011-02-20 03:43:06 cyphase has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 347 2011-02-20 03:43:37 <TheKid> ah okay
 348 2011-02-20 03:52:13 Mango-chan has joined
 349 2011-02-20 03:52:13 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
 350 2011-02-20 03:52:13 Mango-chan has joined
 351 2011-02-20 03:53:13 <noagendamarket> TheKid only if you built a bitcoin app that promised to translate languages but actually steals a wallet lol
 352 2011-02-20 03:53:57 <noagendamarket> this is why we need a third party code review site
 353 2011-02-20 03:54:29 Mango-chan has quit (Client Quit)
 354 2011-02-20 03:54:45 Mango-chan has joined
 355 2011-02-20 03:54:46 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
 356 2011-02-20 03:54:46 Mango-chan has joined
 357 2011-02-20 03:55:11 <TheKid> noagendamarket: I was going to do that
 358 2011-02-20 03:55:12 <TheKid> but
 359 2011-02-20 03:55:26 <chaord> i've never built a c++ project from source before, I've cloned the github repo...what command do I run to build it?
 360 2011-02-20 03:55:27 <TheKid> then I realized I'm not knowledgable enough, I don't think
 361 2011-02-20 03:56:56 bk128 has joined
 362 2011-02-20 03:57:00 <noagendamarket> TheKid you could help us then :)
 363 2011-02-20 03:57:01 <luke-jr> chaord: give up while you're ahead XD
 364 2011-02-20 03:57:17 <noagendamarket> lol
 365 2011-02-20 03:57:26 <TheKid> noagendamarket: I'd be glad to
 366 2011-02-20 03:57:29 <chaord> luke-jr: yah...i don't really want to make a habbit out of it ;)
 367 2011-02-20 03:57:50 <luke-jr> chaord: the wx BitCoin client is one of the most difficult programs to build
 368 2011-02-20 03:57:54 <noagendamarket> TheKid come to #witcoin
 369 2011-02-20 03:58:12 <chaord> hmm...well i only really need bitcoind to be built
 370 2011-02-20 03:58:22 mtgox2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 371 2011-02-20 03:59:47 <chaord> ah, i'm an idiot...i didn't see there is a build-unix.txt in the repo
 372 2011-02-20 04:05:36 <nanotube> chaord: 'make -f makefile.unix bitcoind'
 373 2011-02-20 04:05:53 <chaord> yah...thanks ;) we'll see how it goes
 374 2011-02-20 04:05:54 cronopio has joined
 375 2011-02-20 04:06:47 <nanotube> chaord: you need a bunch of boost dependencies, plus berkleydb
 376 2011-02-20 04:09:06 Edogaa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 377 2011-02-20 04:15:33 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
 378 2011-02-20 04:15:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109221 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1658 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 1 hour, 22 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 46480.11168468
 379 2011-02-20 04:16:13 hozer has joined
 380 2011-02-20 04:16:31 <hozer> can I start bitcoin with gui AND in server mode?
 381 2011-02-20 04:16:32 niftyzero1 has joined
 382 2011-02-20 04:17:24 <Lachesis> hozer, sure
 383 2011-02-20 04:17:28 <Lachesis> bitcoin -server
 384 2011-02-20 04:17:33 <Lachesis> ^^ run that command
 385 2011-02-20 04:18:35 <hozer> bitcoin --server silently fails ;)
 386 2011-02-20 04:18:40 <niftyzero1> ;;bc,stats
 387 2011-02-20 04:18:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109223 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1656 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 46655.31589467
 388 2011-02-20 04:18:43 jnd has joined
 389 2011-02-20 04:19:05 <Lachesis> hozer, that's strange
 390 2011-02-20 04:19:07 <hozer> does anything happen if you're working on a block and the difficulty changes?
 391 2011-02-20 04:19:08 <Lachesis> platform?
 392 2011-02-20 04:19:13 <hozer> linux debian
 393 2011-02-20 04:19:17 <Lachesis> hozer, oh oh --server
 394 2011-02-20 04:19:29 <Lachesis> yeah, bitcoin uses strange args
 395 2011-02-20 04:19:43 <Lachesis> hozer, diff only changes when a block is found
 396 2011-02-20 04:19:51 <Lachesis> and when a block is found, you give up and start trying to find the next one
 397 2011-02-20 04:20:31 <hozer> thus pools provide an advantage?
 398 2011-02-20 04:20:36 <Lachesis> hozer, how so?
 399 2011-02-20 04:20:50 <Lachesis> keep in mind, you're not "making progress" towards a block
 400 2011-02-20 04:20:56 <Lachesis> each hash has an equal chance to win
 401 2011-02-20 04:21:42 <hozer> I'm trying to figure out what the downside of running miner(s) against my own bitcoind vs a pool server is
 402 2011-02-20 04:21:54 <Lachesis> hozer, luck, basically
 403 2011-02-20 04:22:02 <Lachesis> in a pool, you typically pay a small fee
 404 2011-02-20 04:22:06 <citiz3n> that and not being able to tell if it's actually working
 405 2011-02-20 04:22:07 <Lachesis> and get a lower variance in return
 406 2011-02-20 04:22:15 <citiz3n> i was mining at a rate where i should have gotten a block every 10 hours
 407 2011-02-20 04:22:22 <citiz3n> and in nearly 36 hours i did not discover anything
 408 2011-02-20 04:22:28 <citiz3n> so it was very bad luck, or something was wrong
 409 2011-02-20 04:22:30 <Lachesis> citiz3n, was there a problem?
 410 2011-02-20 04:22:40 <Lachesis> also, when was this?
 411 2011-02-20 04:22:44 jnd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 412 2011-02-20 04:22:50 <citiz3n> right before the difficulty change
 413 2011-02-20 04:22:54 <citiz3n> the days leading up to the change
 414 2011-02-20 04:23:02 cronopio has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 415 2011-02-20 04:23:15 <Lachesis> something like 3.2 GHz?
 416 2011-02-20 04:23:18 <Lachesis> that's not bad
 417 2011-02-20 04:23:23 <Lachesis> GH/s
 418 2011-02-20 04:23:27 <Lachesis> wrong unit, sry
 419 2011-02-20 04:23:27 <citiz3n> yeah
 420 2011-02-20 04:23:41 <Lachesis> citiz3n, that's pretty strange
 421 2011-02-20 04:25:38 <Lachesis> that's a <5% probability
 422 2011-02-20 04:25:44 <Lachesis> i mean, bad luck happens, but that's really bad
 423 2011-02-20 04:25:47 <Lachesis> did you switch to pooled?
 424 2011-02-20 04:28:02 hozer has left ()
 425 2011-02-20 04:30:30 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
 426 2011-02-20 04:33:31 <citiz3n> yes i switched back to the pool
 427 2011-02-20 04:34:00 <xelister> citiz3n: are you sure it was not mined
 428 2011-02-20 04:34:13 <citiz3n> what was not mined?
 429 2011-02-20 04:34:27 <xelister> the block when you runned without pool
 430 2011-02-20 04:34:43 <citiz3n> doesn't it switch to a new block then
 431 2011-02-20 04:35:02 <citiz3n> i was running the windows bitcoin.exe -server
 432 2011-02-20 04:35:14 <citiz3n> and using m0mchil's miner to hook up to it
 433 2011-02-20 04:36:01 <citiz3n> was i doing something wrong?
 434 2011-02-20 04:36:16 <citiz3n> it was sitting there displaying a hashrate the whole time - on all of my miners
 435 2011-02-20 04:36:39 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
 436 2011-02-20 04:36:39 noagendamarket has joined
 437 2011-02-20 04:37:08 cyphase has joined
 438 2011-02-20 04:37:08 cyphase has quit (Changing host)
 439 2011-02-20 04:37:08 cyphase has joined
 440 2011-02-20 04:37:31 <xelister> citiz3n: what miner are you using
 441 2011-02-20 04:37:59 <xelister> citiz3n: you are using some GPU miner, right? what speed, 3200 MHash/sec ?
 442 2011-02-20 04:38:25 <xelister> oh ok m0mchil's... yea it should work. perhaps just a really bad luck
 443 2011-02-20 04:39:04 jnd has joined
 444 2011-02-20 04:41:03 <niftyzero1> a 5% 3-day event will happen once every two months
 445 2011-02-20 04:41:45 <Lachesis> i should really audit the miners
 446 2011-02-20 04:41:50 <Lachesis> actually, nah
 447 2011-02-20 04:41:52 <Lachesis> they work for the pool
 448 2011-02-20 04:42:03 <Lachesis> probably not maliciously designed to waste hashes as heat :)
 449 2011-02-20 04:42:18 <Lachesis> btw, i updated my calculator to allow you to set difficulty factor
 450 2011-02-20 04:42:18 <Lachesis> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
 451 2011-02-20 04:42:33 <citiz3n> nice
 452 2011-02-20 04:42:36 <Lachesis> i've got a lot of work to do to catch up to bitcoin now days :)
 453 2011-02-20 04:43:43 <nanotube> Lachesis: oh, you are the creator of the calculator eh? nice. :)
 454 2011-02-20 04:44:02 <nanotube> you were the inspiration for the gribble calculator. :)
 455 2011-02-20 04:45:23 <Lachesis> nanotube, ty ty
 456 2011-02-20 04:45:38 <Lachesis> i stopped paying attention to bitcoins for a long time
 457 2011-02-20 04:45:47 <Lachesis> now like 2/3 of my website is outdated / wrong
 458 2011-02-20 04:46:01 <nanotube> hehe hope you didn't get rid of your old bitcoins. :)
 459 2011-02-20 04:46:10 <Lachesis> oh my god, i had like 10k at one point
 460 2011-02-20 04:46:15 <Lachesis> now i'm down to 500 or so
 461 2011-02-20 04:47:10 <niftyzero1> is there a plot of difficulty over time anywhere?  preferably on a log scale?  feels like the doubling time just got shorter
 462 2011-02-20 04:50:22 <nanotube> Lachesis: what happened?
 463 2011-02-20 04:50:31 <nanotube> ;;whatis #bitcoin-otc netgraph
 464 2011-02-20 04:50:31 <gribble> Graphs of historical network power: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png (linear), http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png (log)
 465 2011-02-20 04:50:49 <nanotube> niftyzero1: --^
 466 2011-02-20 04:51:30 <Lachesis> nanotube, i sold them during the first boom, mostly
 467 2011-02-20 04:51:32 <Lachesis> i'm not unhappy
 468 2011-02-20 04:51:44 <Lachesis> i bought $50 bucks worth and sold them for way more than that
 469 2011-02-20 04:51:48 <Lachesis> like 1500 total over time
 470 2011-02-20 04:51:49 <Lachesis> but still
 471 2011-02-20 04:52:15 <nanotube> heh
 472 2011-02-20 04:52:16 <nanotube> ic ;)
 473 2011-02-20 04:53:55 cyphase has quit (Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/)
 474 2011-02-20 04:54:37 <Blitzboom> new transactions i make are displayed as 0/not confirmed although they are confirmed
 475 2011-02-20 04:54:40 <Blitzboom> why is that?
 476 2011-02-20 04:54:56 <tcatm> ?
 477 2011-02-20 04:55:28 <Blitzboom> when i delete blk0001 and blkindex, it gets back to normal
 478 2011-02-20 04:55:37 <tcatm> Either they are confirmed or they are not. They can't be both assuming both clients have the same blockchain.
 479 2011-02-20 04:56:13 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
 480 2011-02-20 04:56:15 <Blitzboom> i told you, they are confirmed. according to blockexplorer. and once i deleted blk*, it updated the confirmations
 481 2011-02-20 04:57:15 <tcatm> So everything is fine?
 482 2011-02-20 04:57:19 <Blitzboom> no
 483 2011-02-20 04:57:26 <Blitzboom> i want it to update the confirmations
 484 2011-02-20 04:57:34 <Blitzboom> without having to rescan all blocks
 485 2011-02-20 04:58:01 <Blitzboom> but yeah, BTC-speaking, everything is fine
 486 2011-02-20 04:58:19 <tcatm> So what happens is this? You make a transactions, blockexplorer show confirmations but your client isn't showing them?
 487 2011-02-20 04:58:51 <Blitzboom> yes. it remains at 0 confirmations until i delete blk0001 and/or blkindex
 488 2011-02-20 04:59:01 <Lachesis> what does the number returned by bitcoin after sending a transaction mean?
 489 2011-02-20 04:59:13 <Lachesis> in rpc?
 490 2011-02-20 04:59:37 <tcatm> Does it show the correct blocknumber in statusbar/getinfo?
 491 2011-02-20 04:59:47 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
 492 2011-02-20 04:59:47 andrew12 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 493 2011-02-20 04:59:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109228 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1651 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 46722.81975131
 494 2011-02-20 04:59:56 <Blitzboom> hmm. no
 495 2011-02-20 04:59:57 <tcatm> Lachesis: It's the transaction ID (hash of the TX)
 496 2011-02-20 05:00:00 <Blitzboom> 109227 here
 497 2011-02-20 05:00:12 <Lachesis> tcatm, cool
 498 2011-02-20 05:00:13 <Blitzboom> 8 connections
 499 2011-02-20 05:00:19 <Blitzboom> should load faster …
 500 2011-02-20 05:00:41 <tcatm> Lachesis: You can use it for 1) blockexplorer, 2) #bitcoin-monitor and 3) RPC gettransaction
 501 2011-02-20 05:00:51 <Blitzboom> block 109228 was created ten minutes ago, tcatm
 502 2011-02-20 05:01:03 <tcatm> Blitzboom: Indeed. 0.3.20?
 503 2011-02-20 05:01:13 <Blitzboom> .19
 504 2011-02-20 05:01:20 <Blitzboom> should i update?
 505 2011-02-20 05:01:38 <tcatm> Hm. Let's watch for the next block and see what happens when your client receives the broadcast. Can you tail -f debug.log?
 506 2011-02-20 05:02:10 <Lachesis> i hope my miner makes the next block :)
 507 2011-02-20 05:02:43 <Blitzboom> tail?
 508 2011-02-20 05:02:56 <Lachesis> Blitzboom, platform?
 509 2011-02-20 05:03:03 <Blitzboom> win 7
 510 2011-02-20 05:03:09 <Lachesis> ahh then no he can't tcatm
 511 2011-02-20 05:03:11 <Lachesis> :)
 512 2011-02-20 05:03:15 <Blitzboom> ok
 513 2011-02-20 05:03:54 <Lachesis> can you move debug.log somewhere without borking the client?
 514 2011-02-20 05:04:04 <Lachesis> i dunno if it uses locking on windows
 515 2011-02-20 05:04:06 <tcatm> Open debug.log in a texteditor after the next block appears
 516 2011-02-20 05:04:46 <Blitzboom> i could just copy it
 517 2011-02-20 05:04:47 <Lachesis> how do you read the #bitcoin-monitor output?
 518 2011-02-20 05:05:00 <Lachesis> Blitzboom, the idea was to make it empty
 519 2011-02-20 05:05:10 andrew___ has joined
 520 2011-02-20 05:05:11 <Blitzboom> ah ok
 521 2011-02-20 05:05:24 <tcatm> TX {payee amount}... TXid
 522 2011-02-20 05:05:30 <Blitzboom> can’t move without closing the client
 523 2011-02-20 05:05:35 <Lachesis> tcatm, ty
 524 2011-02-20 05:06:02 <Lachesis> tcatm, where is that bot hosted?
 525 2011-02-20 05:06:08 <tcatm> linode
 526 2011-02-20 05:06:09 andrew___ is now known as andrew12
 527 2011-02-20 05:06:09 <Lachesis> and is the code avail?
 528 2011-02-20 05:06:15 <Lachesis> i'd like to make one that tweets
 529 2011-02-20 05:06:19 andrew12 has quit (Changing host)
 530 2011-02-20 05:06:19 andrew12 has joined
 531 2011-02-20 05:06:32 <tcatm> https://github.com/tcatm/supybot-BTCMonitor
 532 2011-02-20 05:06:42 <Blitzboom> should i exit the client and move debug.log?
 533 2011-02-20 05:07:00 <tcatm> Blitzboom: no need
 534 2011-02-20 05:07:09 <Lachesis> ty
 535 2011-02-20 05:07:20 <Blitzboom> thought you needed the log
 536 2011-02-20 05:07:25 <tcatm> Actually it might be more useful to have the whole file in case your client is really doing something wrong...
 537 2011-02-20 05:07:34 <Blitzboom> ok, i’ll copy it
 538 2011-02-20 05:08:09 <tcatm> Okay, but still wait for the next block (and maybe 2..5 minutes more) so we have a reference
 539 2011-02-20 05:13:48 <Blitzboom> is dropbox down? oO can’t sync
 540 2011-02-20 05:14:36 <Blitzboom> tcatm: https://privatepaste.com/a5d0428b32
 541 2011-02-20 05:15:51 <Blitzboom> ok, update:
 542 2011-02-20 05:16:01 <Blitzboom> it’s updated to 109229 blocks
 543 2011-02-20 05:16:05 <Blitzboom> but still no confirmation
 544 2011-02-20 05:16:26 <Blitzboom> why doesn’t it show it as confirmed?
 545 2011-02-20 05:17:23 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 546 2011-02-20 05:17:39 Slix` has joined
 547 2011-02-20 05:17:45 <tcatm> Oh wait. There's something wrong. Is it still at 0?
 548 2011-02-20 05:17:51 <Blitzboom> yes
 549 2011-02-20 05:18:41 <tcatm> Running low on disk space?
 550 2011-02-20 05:18:56 <Blitzboom> 9 GB left oon my os-drive
 551 2011-02-20 05:19:00 <Blitzboom> so no
 552 2011-02-20 05:19:01 <tcatm> Deleted blk* while bitcoin was running?
 553 2011-02-20 05:19:16 <Lachesis> http://twitter.com/#!/bitcoinmonitor
 554 2011-02-20 05:19:17 <Blitzboom> i did that once, yes
 555 2011-02-20 05:19:19 <Blitzboom> but not now
 556 2011-02-20 05:19:31 <Blitzboom> if i delete it, it shows the right confirmations
 557 2011-02-20 05:19:50 <tcatm> Lachesis: can you post the raw block? :)
 558 2011-02-20 05:20:20 <Blitzboom> so what do i need to do?
 559 2011-02-20 05:20:21 <tcatm> So it could be used for actually loading the blockchain
 560 2011-02-20 05:20:37 <Blitzboom> it’s at block 109232 now
 561 2011-02-20 05:20:43 <Blitzboom> still no confirmations
 562 2011-02-20 05:20:46 <Blitzboom> so something’s wrong
 563 2011-02-20 05:20:50 <Lachesis> tcatm, in 140 chars? no :)
 564 2011-02-20 05:21:18 <tcatm> stop bitcoin, backup your wallet, remove all datafiles of bitcoin, install 0.3.20, restore wallet.dat and start bitcoin
 565 2011-02-20 05:21:35 <Blitzboom> where do i get 0.3.2 for windows?
 566 2011-02-20 05:22:06 <tcatm> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3473.0
 567 2011-02-20 05:22:11 <Blitzboom> thx
 568 2011-02-20 05:22:36 <Blitzboom> whate are the __db-files?
 569 2011-02-20 05:22:40 <tcatm> Looks like the blk files got out of sync.
 570 2011-02-20 05:23:02 <tcatm> I think some kind of bdb journals. You can delete them.
 571 2011-02-20 05:23:17 <sneak> hi
 572 2011-02-20 05:23:47 <tcatm> Lachesis: strip the mirc color codes :P
 573 2011-02-20 05:23:56 <Lachesis> tcatm, good call
 574 2011-02-20 05:24:12 <Lachesis> \x0309,01 and \x03?
 575 2011-02-20 05:24:16 <tcatm> yep
 576 2011-02-20 05:25:14 <tcatm> Can you include links to blockexplorer?
 577 2011-02-20 05:25:33 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/block/$BLOCK
 578 2011-02-20 05:25:52 <tcatm> and http://http://blockexplorer.com/tx/$TXID
 579 2011-02-20 05:26:43 <Lachesis> hmm
 580 2011-02-20 05:27:01 <Lachesis> twitter char limit is 140
 581 2011-02-20 05:27:06 <Lachesis> so i need to make shorter links
 582 2011-02-20 05:27:17 <Lachesis> goo.gl has an api
 583 2011-02-20 05:27:41 <Blitzboom> bitcoin is now RC?
 584 2011-02-20 05:27:44 <tcatm> Should be fine as long as you don't duplicate the ID
 585 2011-02-20 05:27:57 <tcatm> Blitzboom: RC for 0.3.20
 586 2011-02-20 05:28:12 <Blitzboom> RC for a beta?
 587 2011-02-20 05:28:29 <tcatm> yep
 588 2011-02-20 05:28:33 <Blitzboom> haha. okay
 589 2011-02-20 05:28:41 Omni is now known as Work!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Omni|AFK
 590 2011-02-20 05:29:12 <Lachesis> $TXID is the long id?
 591 2011-02-20 05:29:16 <tcatm> yep
 592 2011-02-20 05:30:45 <Lachesis> darn
 593 2011-02-20 05:30:54 <Lachesis> url shortening api is a myth
 594 2011-02-20 05:30:59 <Lachesis> and the script i found is borked
 595 2011-02-20 05:31:17 <nanotube> Lachesis: what's the point of stuffing the stream of bitcoin blocks/tx into twitter? :)
 596 2011-02-20 05:31:18 <tcatm> IIRC bbe has a builtin shortener
 597 2011-02-20 05:31:54 <tcatm> nanotube: same as -monitor :)
 598 2011-02-20 05:32:07 <tcatm> easier to watch than tail -f debug.log
 599 2011-02-20 05:32:27 <nanotube> tcatm: well... it won't be same as -monitor, if all it is is a bunch of goo.gl urls.
 600 2011-02-20 05:33:58 <tcatm> Would be cooler if whole TX/blocks could be included
 601 2011-02-20 05:34:32 <Lachesis> nanotube, the idea is to post everything monitor posts, even if it costs two tweets at a time
 602 2011-02-20 05:35:37 <tcatm> Make a seperate website if twitter is to stupid for more than 140 bytes :)
 603 2011-02-20 05:36:18 <nanotube> tcatm: right :)
 604 2011-02-20 05:36:41 <tcatm> Have a list of tx that are to be included into the next block and visually move them into the block once it is found.
 605 2011-02-20 05:36:45 <nanotube> Lachesis: mmm well some tx are large enough that you'd need 20 tweets.
 606 2011-02-20 05:37:15 <Lachesis> nanotube, hrm
 607 2011-02-20 05:37:22 <ntosme2> set up an rss feed somewhere, who needs twitter
 608 2011-02-20 05:37:22 <Lachesis> nanotube, oh well :)
 609 2011-02-20 05:38:11 <nanotube> Lachesis: well, give it a try... let's see what happens :)
 610 2011-02-20 05:40:06 <Lachesis> http://twitter.com/#!/bitcoinmonitor
 611 2011-02-20 05:40:11 <Lachesis> url is wrong somehow?
 612 2011-02-20 05:40:30 <Lachesis> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/110822014327269495173010257475928106782319715197217891069524926029689128016147 ?
 613 2011-02-20 05:40:40 <tcatm> looks like decimal
 614 2011-02-20 05:40:42 <tcatm> should be hex
 615 2011-02-20 05:40:45 <Lachesis> oh k
 616 2011-02-20 05:40:57 <Lachesis> how many digits?
 617 2011-02-20 05:40:59 <Lachesis> 64?
 618 2011-02-20 05:41:19 <Lachesis> somebody send someone else some money :)
 619 2011-02-20 05:42:21 <Lachesis> much better!
 620 2011-02-20 05:42:38 <Lachesis> i wonder if twitter will rate limit me
 621 2011-02-20 05:42:42 <Lachesis> ought to look that up, no? :)
 622 2011-02-20 05:42:56 <nanotube> haha
 623 2011-02-20 05:43:06 <nanotube> if not, you can always set up a laconica feed
 624 2011-02-20 05:43:24 <tcatm> I'd guess twitter is used to much higher load than a few bitcoin transactions ;)
 625 2011-02-20 05:43:41 <Lachesis> hrm they only allow something like 350 calls per person per hour
 626 2011-02-20 05:43:51 <nanotube> probably... but they may not want their entire load to come from just a few users :)
 627 2011-02-20 05:44:13 <Lachesis> laconica?
 628 2011-02-20 05:44:40 <nanotube> ;;sl laconica
 629 2011-02-20 05:44:40 <gribble> http://status.net/ | Open source microblogging application, aiming to be an alternative to Twitter. Provides hosting services, a list of existing servers using this software, ...
 630 2011-02-20 05:44:49 <nanotube> mm i guess they call it statusnet now :)
 631 2011-02-20 05:44:52 <Lachesis> woah woah what's that?!
 632 2011-02-20 05:44:56 <Lachesis> ;;sl alloscomp
 633 2011-02-20 05:44:57 <gribble> http://www.alloscomp.com/ | I considered retiring Alloscomp, but I've made this domain name a part of both my online and offline identities. As such, I've decided to merely reorganize ...
 634 2011-02-20 05:45:02 <Lachesis> that is awesome
 635 2011-02-20 05:45:20 <nanotube> :)
 636 2011-02-20 05:46:21 <Lachesis> so 4 tweets a minute will kill my limit unforetunately
 637 2011-02-20 05:46:27 <Lachesis> i ought to set my own thingy up
 638 2011-02-20 05:46:49 <nanotube> set laconica^Wstatusnet on your host
 639 2011-02-20 05:46:58 <Lachesis> easy?
 640 2011-02-20 05:47:00 <nanotube> or maybe statusnet gives you accounts on theirs, too. dunno.
 641 2011-02-20 05:47:02 <nanotube> heh
 642 2011-02-20 05:47:10 <nanotube> probably as easy as any other foss webapp ;)
 643 2011-02-20 05:47:17 <Lachesis> apparently identi.ca doesn't have a rate limit
 644 2011-02-20 05:47:19 <Lachesis> so i'll just do that
 645 2011-02-20 05:47:26 <Lachesis> it's also a twitter compatible api
 646 2011-02-20 05:47:49 <nanotube> ah cool, and they use statusnet
 647 2011-02-20 06:00:21 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 648 2011-02-20 06:05:14 <niftyzero1> nanotube - thanks for the graphs
 649 2011-02-20 06:08:03 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 650 2011-02-20 06:08:15 EvanR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 651 2011-02-20 06:08:26 EvanR has joined
 652 2011-02-20 06:08:37 <niftyzero1> hm... looks like ~20 days for each doubling, ~60 days for 10x
 653 2011-02-20 06:08:39 <niftyzero1> very impressive
 654 2011-02-20 06:08:48 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 655 2011-02-20 06:09:18 <niftyzero1> 1000x in 6 months
 656 2011-02-20 06:12:04 ThomasV has joined
 657 2011-02-20 06:17:25 <nanotube> niftyzero1: np :)
 658 2011-02-20 06:18:10 Lubeskywalker has joined
 659 2011-02-20 06:20:27 ThomasV has left ("Quitte")
 660 2011-02-20 06:24:02 <Lachesis> alright, apparently posting statuses isn't rate limited?
 661 2011-02-20 06:24:11 <Lachesis> so i'll just let that go for now then
 662 2011-02-20 06:24:18 <Lachesis> anyway, i'm beat - - turning in
 663 2011-02-20 06:24:39 Blitzboom_ has joined
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 675 2011-02-20 06:41:40 <jgarzik> we need people ready and qualified to act as bitcoin consultants
 676 2011-02-20 06:41:45 <jgarzik> bitcoin support
 677 2011-02-20 06:42:44 Blitzboom_ has joined
 678 2011-02-20 06:43:57 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 679 2011-02-20 06:46:15 <niftyzero1> jgarzik - for what kind of audience?  tech?  general?
 680 2011-02-20 06:46:34 niftyzero1 is now known as devrandom
 681 2011-02-20 06:47:07 <TheKid> jgarzik: consultants in what way
 682 2011-02-20 06:47:12 <TheKid> I might be interested ;)
 683 2011-02-20 06:47:17 Lube has quit ()
 684 2011-02-20 06:47:23 Lubeskywalker has quit ()
 685 2011-02-20 06:48:28 sethsethseth has joined
 686 2011-02-20 06:49:01 <sethsethseth> hey guys im having trouble getting two 5970's working with all gpu cores
 687 2011-02-20 06:49:08 <sethsethseth> do i need to run linux to do it?
 688 2011-02-20 06:50:32 <TheKid> I've heard mumblings that that might be the case
 689 2011-02-20 06:50:39 <TheKid> but I don't think it's true
 690 2011-02-20 06:50:47 <TheKid> what trouble are you having?
 691 2011-02-20 06:50:55 <sethsethseth> i cant get it to list all the cores
 692 2011-02-20 06:52:13 <TheKid> is it in crossfire?
 693 2011-02-20 06:52:37 <sethsethseth> ya im trying all kinds of configurations
 694 2011-02-20 06:52:46 <sethsethseth> i took off the crossfire bridge now
 695 2011-02-20 06:52:53 <sethsethseth> so its not crossfire
 696 2011-02-20 06:53:02 <jgarzik> devrandom, TheKid: read http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=266.msg51753#msg51753 and my reply
 697 2011-02-20 06:53:15 <jgarzik> some geeks that can answer questions about bitcoin
 698 2011-02-20 06:53:45 <jgarzik> offer basic software support ("my PC is chewing away at 100% CPU but I get nothing!")
 699 2011-02-20 06:54:16 Mango-chan has quit ()
 700 2011-02-20 06:56:04 <devrandom> seems like several people on this channel are able to answer these types of questions... are you thinking about providing a pay consulting service?
 701 2011-02-20 06:57:08 <devrandom> s/pay/for pay/
 702 2011-02-20 06:57:50 <TheKid> I'd be willing to be hired into a consulting service, but not organize it
 703 2011-02-20 06:57:59 <jgarzik> devrandom: I want nothing to do with it, organizationally or operationally :)
 704 2011-02-20 06:58:07 <jgarzik> But for bitcoin to thrive, we need support orgs
 705 2011-02-20 06:58:14 * jgarzik is speaking as a bitcoin activist :)
 706 2011-02-20 06:58:21 <devrandom> definitely agree
 707 2011-02-20 06:59:01 <TheKid> jgarzik: find someone who'd be willing to lead, and I'm a willing employee
 708 2011-02-20 06:59:03 <jgarzik> there should be a "Bitcoin Support" section of https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
 709 2011-02-20 06:59:19 <jgarzik> with qualified, known individuals / orgs
 710 2011-02-20 07:01:16 Mango-chan has joined
 711 2011-02-20 07:01:16 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
 712 2011-02-20 07:01:16 Mango-chan has joined
 713 2011-02-20 07:01:31 <devrandom> jgarzik - I might know some people that would be interested
 714 2011-02-20 07:01:44 <devrandom> let me ask around
 715 2011-02-20 07:03:27 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 716 2011-02-20 07:03:40 <devrandom> any progress with https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/55 ?
 717 2011-02-20 07:03:49 <docl> jgarzik: most people needing support would be traders, not miners, one would think.
 718 2011-02-20 07:03:59 dust1 has joined
 719 2011-02-20 07:04:22 <jgarzik> docl: the guy at the link talks about hiring web developers
 720 2011-02-20 07:04:31 * Diablo-D3 does a pose
 721 2011-02-20 07:04:35 <Diablo-D3> HENSHIN!
 722 2011-02-20 07:04:47 * Diablo-D3 turns into kamen rider bitcoin!
 723 2011-02-20 07:04:47 <jgarzik> Bitcoin Support Inc should be able to hook any business up to bitcoin payments, or troubleshoot a bitcoin install
 724 2011-02-20 07:04:55 `Jaka has joined
 725 2011-02-20 07:06:05 <devrandom> probably should have a strong focus on security too
 726 2011-02-20 07:07:09 <jgarzik> agreed
 727 2011-02-20 07:07:30 * jgarzik will mumble something to the forums
 728 2011-02-20 07:07:44 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 729 2011-02-20 07:08:31 <docl> Step 4: Hire better SYSADMIN's.  They should be able to answer these  basic questions and offer basic support, or not install software that  neither you or they understand. <- win
 730 2011-02-20 07:08:35 docl has left ()
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 733 2011-02-20 07:13:12 molecular has joined
 734 2011-02-20 07:15:22 <nanotube> jgarzik: amendment to your post: step 1: do not post your question to an unrelated existing thread. :)
 735 2011-02-20 07:15:28 lfm has joined
 736 2011-02-20 07:17:36 <jgarzik> WANTED: Bitcoin tech support organization
 737 2011-02-20 07:17:36 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3654.msg51768#msg51768
 738 2011-02-20 07:19:39 cronopio has joined
 739 2011-02-20 07:21:22 sethsethseth has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
 740 2011-02-20 07:27:35 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
 741 2011-02-20 07:28:32 <mmagic> someone like TimeMoney is not worth supporting.
 742 2011-02-20 07:29:06 <mmagic> not yet. soon, but not yet.
 743 2011-02-20 07:30:36 biter has joined
 744 2011-02-20 07:31:23 TheAncientGoat has joined
 745 2011-02-20 07:32:28 <nanotube> mmagic: well gotta start somewhere
 746 2011-02-20 07:33:49 <mmagic> time and effort of high-ability bitcoiners is better spent building infrastructure, not hand-holding people with strong senses of entitlement.
 747 2011-02-20 07:34:13 Syke has joined
 748 2011-02-20 07:36:45 <mmagic> "It's on the scale of worrying about passing through your chair." - http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=266.msg7092#msg7092
 749 2011-02-20 07:36:48 <mmagic> ha ha..!
 750 2011-02-20 07:39:21 <nanotube> hehe nice
 751 2011-02-20 07:40:27 <Diablo-D3> idspispdod!
 752 2011-02-20 07:40:32 * Diablo-D3 FLIES THROUGH THE CEILING
 753 2011-02-20 07:42:15 <mmagic> idspispopd :)
 754 2011-02-20 07:42:34 sethsethseth has joined
 755 2011-02-20 07:42:35 <mmagic> and doom had no vertical movement!
 756 2011-02-20 07:43:17 <lfm> halt and catch fire
 757 2011-02-20 07:45:36 <JFK911> sign exchange
 758 2011-02-20 07:48:48 <devrandom> has any thought been given to changing the proof-of-work to be less amenable to GPU/hardware acceleration?  e.g. by mixing in a large lookup table?
 759 2011-02-20 07:50:21 <jgarzik> devrandom: we've avoided incompatible changes to the basics
 760 2011-02-20 07:50:53 <lfm> devrandom: you would have to convince a majority of the compute power existing that it was a good idea. that majority IS the gpu users
 761 2011-02-20 07:51:05 <Diablo-D3> mmagic: I typoed
 762 2011-02-20 07:51:05 <jgarzik> devrandom: plenty of comments and desires in that direction, though it seems ultimately not a productive use of time to work on that area of the problem
 763 2011-02-20 07:51:06 <Diablo-D3> iddqd
 764 2011-02-20 07:51:17 * Diablo-D3 is now armed with a rocket powered chainsaw strapon!
 765 2011-02-20 07:51:21 * Diablo-D3 rapes the enemies!
 766 2011-02-20 07:51:22 <jgarzik> lfm: or do your own fork
 767 2011-02-20 07:51:28 <jgarzik> and hope to win people over
 768 2011-02-20 07:51:43 <lfm> jgarzik: ya, like tonal
 769 2011-02-20 07:52:17 <jgarzik> ;-)
 770 2011-02-20 07:52:28 <devrandom> I'm somewhat concerned about a resourceful adversary could gain > 90% of network hash capacity
 771 2011-02-20 07:52:59 larsivi has joined
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 773 2011-02-20 07:53:09 <lfm> devrandom: yup you are
 774 2011-02-20 07:53:12 <mmagic> tonal! i demand immediately that you add in the option, "-sammich" which will cause bitcoind, when connected to an appropriate microcontroller, to activate a kitchen robot to make me a sandwich!
 775 2011-02-20 07:53:47 <lfm> magic hehe yup we'll get right on that
 776 2011-02-20 07:54:29 <devrandom> lfm - it's somewhat likely to happen through ASICs
 777 2011-02-20 07:54:31 <mmagic> lfm: i have some patches here which will lead in that glorious direction. i demand you apply them immediately to -stable.
 778 2011-02-20 07:54:43 <mmagic> devrandom: no it's not.
 779 2011-02-20 07:54:47 <mmagic> not yet anyway.
 780 2011-02-20 07:55:10 <devrandom> how about a year from now?
 781 2011-02-20 07:56:01 <mmagic> the cost of a proper ASIC is close to the cost of the entire network, and the only thing whoever that is, would gain, would be the destruction of trust in the network, and therefore the network itself. so the person loses their investment or has to convert it to cracking other hashes to pay for itself.
 782 2011-02-20 07:56:17 <lfm> magic you are dismissing the probability that the super-secret labs of that giant organization which shall remain nameless is working on this right now and is about to take over bitcoin and the rest of the world shortly thereafter
 783 2011-02-20 07:56:26 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 784 2011-02-20 07:56:29 <mmagic> cost of the entire network: "worth" of all bitcoins in existence if you were to multiple current mtfgox prices with the number of bitcoins in existence.
 785 2011-02-20 07:56:33 <Diablo-D3> mmagic: you do realize that ArtForz has already produced a run of chips?
 786 2011-02-20 07:56:43 <mmagic> lfm: f'ing A batman.. :)
 787 2011-02-20 07:58:18 <mmagic> Diablo-D3: that are approximately as expensive, per-chip, as a full 5870 and within a year will be overtaken by advancing commodity hardware? are you trying to tell me that a private run of structured ASIC can compete with the economies of scale of the largest consumer semiconductor companies on the planet? :)
 788 2011-02-20 07:58:25 <devrandom> I'm thinking about an attack from someone that stands to gain from the downfall of the network
 789 2011-02-20 07:58:38 <mmagic> devrandom: such as?
 790 2011-02-20 07:59:02 <lfm> devrandom: so was I
 791 2011-02-20 07:59:19 <devrandom> e.g. someone that has bets against the currency... short sellers and such
 792 2011-02-20 07:59:37 <mmagic> devrandom: and who would front the coins for a currency-wide short sell?
 793 2011-02-20 08:00:00 <lfm> devrandom: I dont think there is enuf value in the whole bitcoin system to justify such a project
 794 2011-02-20 08:00:27 <devrandom> lfm - not currently, true
 795 2011-02-20 08:00:39 <mmagic> i'm not sure anyone fronts coins for short-sells right now.
 796 2011-02-20 08:00:44 <lfm> ok so we do not currently need to worry about it
 797 2011-02-20 08:00:47 <mmagic> maybe privately i guess.
 798 2011-02-20 08:01:16 <devrandom> I guess the question is - what multiplier can a hardware solution get over a GPU?
 799 2011-02-20 08:01:39 <mmagic> devrandom: ONLY in terms of power consumption, and for some, power consumption is not an issue.
 800 2011-02-20 08:02:47 <mmagic> Art will need to refresh his structured asic regularly to keep from being overtaken by advancing GPU/APU..
 801 2011-02-20 08:02:51 <devrandom> if the multiplier is large, a small investment in hw could be enough to damage the credibility of the network
 802 2011-02-20 08:03:05 <lfm> exactly and it seems for many miners power consumption is not an issue, either they are subsidized by parents or their dorm or apartment landlord or the "waste" heat is actually used
 803 2011-02-20 08:03:21 <devrandom> so his asic is only a small improvement over GPU?
 804 2011-02-20 08:04:16 <lfm> devrandom: small relatively ya
 805 2011-02-20 08:04:29 <mmagic> devrandom: which would render the currency valueless, and i still haven't heard why you think someone would spend the .. half million or so required to do that. nobody spends $500k just to destroy something else unless in the end it nets them more. rich people don't think like that.
 806 2011-02-20 08:04:47 <mmagic> devrandom: it consumes about 1/6 the power (by the occasional estimate Art lets out)
 807 2011-02-20 08:04:50 <nanotube> mmagic: rich governments think like that. because it's not their money. :)
 808 2011-02-20 08:05:12 <mmagic> each chip apparently does 300Mhash, and beyond initial design and infrastructure phase, will cost raw about $300/per.
 809 2011-02-20 08:05:13 <devrandom> how about if China thinks that bitcoin is a threat to them?
 810 2011-02-20 08:05:29 <lfm> mmagic: 200
 811 2011-02-20 08:05:39 <mmagic> nanotube: virtual currencies exist all over the place; and taxpayers won't stand for a half million dollars to engage in malicious behaviour.
 812 2011-02-20 08:06:11 <devrandom> not all governments are controlled by taxpayers
 813 2011-02-20 08:06:25 <mmagic> devrandom: describe a plausible reason why china would think a $5m set of hashes would be a threat to a country with 1.3b people and oneo f the largest marketplaces in the world.
 814 2011-02-20 08:06:31 <lfm> dev ya, like egypt?
 815 2011-02-20 08:06:48 <devrandom> a year from now, bitcoin could be at $5B
 816 2011-02-20 08:07:12 <lfm> devrandom a year from now china could be democratic
 817 2011-02-20 08:07:23 <mmagic> devrandom: and at that point, the power of the mining put into the network would be so great that it would require a proportionally more massive attack strategy.
 818 2011-02-20 08:07:34 <nanotube> mmagic: hahaha taxpayers eh? they 'stand' for orders of magnitude greater expenses, to engage in much shittier behavior.
 819 2011-02-20 08:07:53 <nanotube> the half million won't even show up on the radar, it's just a rounding error in the trillion dollar annual govt budget.
 820 2011-02-20 08:07:53 <mmagic> mmagic: that has nothing to do with a virtual currency which is not illegal.
 821 2011-02-20 08:08:00 <devrandom> my point is that if a hw solution is 50x better with a $10M investment, China could do it
 822 2011-02-20 08:08:12 <nanotube> mmagic: not to mention that they could just add a million to nsa's budget to do it, and nobody knows why.
 823 2011-02-20 08:08:17 biter has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 824 2011-02-20 08:08:21 <mmagic> lots of people could do it. but they won't. there's no point.
 825 2011-02-20 08:08:36 <mmagic> fuck, art could do it with two or three other larger miners.
 826 2011-02-20 08:08:58 <devrandom> art has no incentive...
 827 2011-02-20 08:09:33 <mmagic> you still haven't described any incentives china/US/NSA/snowpeople have.
 828 2011-02-20 08:10:01 <lfm> devrandom: art could be visited by "men in black" and forced to do it
 829 2011-02-20 08:10:42 <mmagic> nanotube: government isn't nearly the capricious, organized malicious attack vessel that people think it is. :)
 830 2011-02-20 08:11:02 <devrandom> so lets say a year from now, bitcoin is at $5B
 831 2011-02-20 08:11:14 <devrandom> and $1B is held by chinese citizens
 832 2011-02-20 08:11:25 <mmagic> devrandom: that three base-10 orders of magnitude bigger than it is right now.
 833 2011-02-20 08:11:46 <mmagic> devrandom: and this is a hypothetical with no (as far as I can tell) basis in reality.
 834 2011-02-20 08:12:16 <Syke> how would you ever determine the citizen status of all bitcoin addresses?
 835 2011-02-20 08:12:25 <mmagic> also a good point,.
 836 2011-02-20 08:12:48 <devrandom> you could guesstimate based on activity of people that don't cover their tracks
 837 2011-02-20 08:13:04 <lfm> devrandom: so if bitcoin is worth $5 billion then I suspect difficulty would be correspondingly hogh
 838 2011-02-20 08:13:18 <nanotube> mmagic: you'd be surprised. :)
 839 2011-02-20 08:13:49 <devrandom> lfm - true, but it is still a concern if a hw accelerated solution has a large performance multiplier
 840 2011-02-20 08:13:54 <mmagic> nanotube: not rally. the capricious stuff is typically undertaken by individuals and not organizations as a whole.
 841 2011-02-20 08:14:11 <nanotube> mmagic: it is not /the only/ thing that government is. but it is certainly capable of being an organized malicious attack vessel.
 842 2011-02-20 08:14:26 <mmagic> nanotube: for example a sheriff took one of his deputies and attempted to literally steal the contents of my family's store one year.
 843 2011-02-20 08:14:37 <lfm> devrandom: the investment to dominate bitcoin would be correspondingly high
 844 2011-02-20 08:14:38 <sethsethseth> i missed the part where you said why a hardware implementation would be able produce 90% of the network hash
 845 2011-02-20 08:14:47 <devrandom> mmagic - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png
 846 2011-02-20 08:14:50 <nanotube> mmagic: capricious is not in question here - once bitcoin is used to "buy drugs", or used as the required payoff in a kidnapping scheme... it won't take capriciousness to whip the public into a frenzy.
 847 2011-02-20 08:15:07 <devrandom> the value of bitcoin will track difficulty
 848 2011-02-20 08:15:08 RazielZ has joined
 849 2011-02-20 08:15:17 <devrandom> difficulty is doubling every 20 days
 850 2011-02-20 08:15:23 <mmagic> nanotube: occasionally, but they don't make a habit of being an attack vessel unless something is a clear threat to them. and bitcoin is not a threat. bartering isn't a thread. WoW gold isn't a threat. EVE:Online ISK isn't a threat. neither are linden dollars.
 851 2011-02-20 08:15:29 <lfm> sethsethseth: he is postulating some government agency with deep pockets will want to destroy bitcoin
 852 2011-02-20 08:15:34 <prax> that makes no sense devrandom
 853 2011-02-20 08:16:03 <devrandom> difficulty is doubling every 20-30 days
 854 2011-02-20 08:16:13 <nanotube> mmagic: see: alcohol prohibition. see: war on drugs. see: war on teenagers sexting.
 855 2011-02-20 08:16:28 <sethsethseth> and is everyone agreeing that it is possible to build a hardware solution for 500k that beats everyone?
 856 2011-02-20 08:16:44 <nanotube> shit that isn't a threat, but that lets govt officials 'look good', will be done.
 857 2011-02-20 08:16:47 <devrandom> the increase in difficulty is a reliable measure of adoption
 858 2011-02-20 08:16:47 <prax> maybe it has tracked difficulty but clearly there are other factors in bitcoin's value..
 859 2011-02-20 08:16:58 genjix has joined
 860 2011-02-20 08:17:16 <prax> sort of but again more to it
 861 2011-02-20 08:17:29 <mmagic> nanotube: it's already being used to buy drugs. all it is is another kind of cash. lots of people have carloads of cash they don't declare. and if the government sees a bunch of assets suddenly show up at someone's door that they didn't obtain legally, they investigate. same mechanism, same way to prosecute, same penalties.
 862 2011-02-20 08:17:48 <prax> Artforz' setup would be an example of a technological improvement rather than a wholesale change in number of adopters
 863 2011-02-20 08:17:50 <lfm> 500k bucks today, a year from now if bitcoin value is 2000 times greater then the cost to dominate (or ruin) bitcoin will be corespondingly high
 864 2011-02-20 08:17:51 <devrandom> mtgox has a pretty short doubling time too
 865 2011-02-20 08:18:24 <prax> and anyhow the value has to do with the actual exchanges of the bitcoins, not only difficulty
 866 2011-02-20 08:18:27 <nanotube> mmagic: it's still too small to be on the radar. i'm not trying to fud-monger... but i think it's not unlikely that some time down the road, /some/ govt will want to ban and/or attack bitcoin.
 867 2011-02-20 08:19:38 <devrandom> prax - I'm not saying that it's *based* on difficulty, I am saying that difficulty is an indicator of adoption
 868 2011-02-20 08:19:39 <mmagic> nanotube: i'm pretty sure the most that will happen is the traffic will be ordered filtered.
 869 2011-02-20 08:20:08 <mmagic> nanotube: and the governments will remind people that income tax avoidance is a crime.
 870 2011-02-20 08:20:10 <nanotube> mmagic: well, let's hope you're right. and let's further hope that by that time bitcoin traffic will be ssl'ed, and freenet/i2p capable. ;)
 871 2011-02-20 08:20:13 <devrandom> prax - it's definitely the case that long-term value has to come from creating a thriving economy
 872 2011-02-20 08:20:29 <mmagic> nanotube: pretty sure it's already in i2p isn't it?
 873 2011-02-20 08:20:38 Blitzboom has joined
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 875 2011-02-20 08:20:39 Blitzboom has joined
 876 2011-02-20 08:20:53 <prax> okay then, has tracked
 877 2011-02-20 08:21:00 <nanotube> mmagic: not yet, it seems that it'd take some coding to get it i2p-ing. presumably some i2p people are thinking/working on it.
 878 2011-02-20 08:21:11 <prax> because a big part of the exchange activity is mining and speculation
 879 2011-02-20 08:21:12 <nanotube> mmagic: and xelister and johnyh seem to be working on the freenet side
 880 2011-02-20 08:21:18 <nanotube> tor of course is already possible.
 881 2011-02-20 08:21:21 <prax> just wanted to clear that up =)
 882 2011-02-20 08:21:31 <devrandom> sure
 883 2011-02-20 08:22:15 <mmagic> nanotube: hrm. all they need is an i2p outproxy tunnel to a pre-existing node. i'm 95% certain nodes are already running in i2p.
 884 2011-02-20 08:22:51 Blitzboom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 885 2011-02-20 08:23:01 <devrandom> I guess my full scenario - total currency gets to $5B, hw solution is 50x more efficient, $500M in existing mining capital, $20M in attack hw trumps the network
 886 2011-02-20 08:23:09 <nanotube> mmagic: well, dunno i haven't really kept up with the i2p folks. there's an i2p gateway on #bitcoin-discussion, if you're interested, ask around there. :) (or if you're interested in running an i2p node)
 887 2011-02-20 08:23:40 <mmagic> devrandom: i'm pretty sure that scenario is flawed in its estimates.
 888 2011-02-20 08:23:56 <devrandom> I'm hoping the 50x figure is wrong
 889 2011-02-20 08:24:29 <sethsethseth> ya why would it be 50x
 890 2011-02-20 08:24:47 <devrandom> because GPUs are somewhat general purpose
 891 2011-02-20 08:24:49 <Syke> yes, 50x advances in hw capabilities is highly unlikely
 892 2011-02-20 08:25:13 <mmagic> they're barely able to build a 5x efficiency in power consumption with maxwell..
 893 2011-02-20 08:25:41 <devrandom> so the power consumption and gate usage of a hw solution might be much lower compared to the GPU
 894 2011-02-20 08:25:44 <prax> what about those new 50-core chips or whatever?
 895 2011-02-20 08:26:07 <Syke> good GPUs now are basically 1600-cores
 896 2011-02-20 08:26:18 <devrandom> I'm not so worried about parallelism - GPUs will track that
 897 2011-02-20 08:26:18 <prax> oh okay that is CPUs anyhow
 898 2011-02-20 08:27:09 <devrandom> more worried about GPUs being not as efficient as optimized circuits
 899 2011-02-20 08:27:28 <mmagic> devrandom: your attack method needs some additional thought. I recommend you flesh it out, do some science and mathematics to calculate specifically what it would take to overpower the network, take into account growth trends, and so on, and then sell your attack paper to someone to wants it.
 900 2011-02-20 08:27:44 <brunner> Of those of you whom are in the US, is anyone NOT near one of the following banks? Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase, US Bank, PNC
 901 2011-02-20 08:28:05 <nevezen> I am. So?
 902 2011-02-20 08:28:13 <prax> 3/5 near me
 903 2011-02-20 08:28:27 <JFK911> I deposited a check for 600 BTC into the computer-brained BofA ATM.
 904 2011-02-20 08:28:33 <JFK911> It credited me $600
 905 2011-02-20 08:28:58 <brunner> nevezen: you are or aren't near one of those?
 906 2011-02-20 08:29:10 <nevezen> yes. why?
 907 2011-02-20 08:29:22 <mmagic> ha ha ha
 908 2011-02-20 08:30:48 <prax> any of you ever use an android emulator on pc?
 909 2011-02-20 08:31:04 <devrandom> mmagic - are you encouraging me to subvert bitcoin?
 910 2011-02-20 08:31:04 <Syke> prax, yes
 911 2011-02-20 08:31:24 <brunner> nevezen: just curious.
 912 2011-02-20 08:31:40 <prax> can I just basically install it and use it as a phone -the calls?
 913 2011-02-20 08:31:47 <prax> install apps and such
 914 2011-02-20 08:31:52 <Syke> yup
 915 2011-02-20 08:31:57 <prax> k cool
 916 2011-02-20 08:32:10 <mmagic> devrandom: I am.
 917 2011-02-20 08:32:22 <devrandom> okay, just wanted to make sure
 918 2011-02-20 08:32:52 <Syke> you probably can't make actual phone calls to the regular phone network
 919 2011-02-20 08:32:57 <welterde> nanotube: it probably won't change much in comparision to now..
 920 2011-02-20 08:33:06 <prax> yeah I got that from the page I found
 921 2011-02-20 08:33:12 <nevezen> tbh, I still think the idea of bitcoin a bit of a conundrum.
 922 2011-02-20 08:33:12 <prax> don't care about that
 923 2011-02-20 08:33:19 <nanotube> welterde: it == what?
 924 2011-02-20 08:33:21 <prax> just installing an app to process credit card payments
 925 2011-02-20 08:33:35 <welterde> nanotube: the situation with i2p
 926 2011-02-20 08:33:35 <Syke> but yeah, .apk's that can be installed on devices can be installed on the emulator
 927 2011-02-20 08:33:39 <mmagic> devrandom: if you went a step further, and designed and built a proof-of-concept, i'm pretty sure you could get a lot of people to buy the base hardware to support you while you shopped your idea out to foreign governments.
 928 2011-02-20 08:34:05 <nanotube> welterde: what exactly is the situation with i2p now? i haven't been keeping up.
 929 2011-02-20 08:34:22 <welterde> nanotube: you manually create tunnels and use -connect 127.0.0.1 or something like that..
 930 2011-02-20 08:34:49 <nevezen> for example, if you were to sell goods for bitcoin, you'd want to convert the coins back to real currency right?
 931 2011-02-20 08:34:53 <mmagic> I am now 99% certain people on the i2p network are already using bitcoin through i2p.
 932 2011-02-20 08:34:58 <nanotube> ah. but how to bridge between i2p and regular net? or do you only connect to specific nodes over i2p?
 933 2011-02-20 08:35:25 * nanotube doesn't know that much about how i2p works ;)
 934 2011-02-20 08:35:37 <welterde> nanotube: some people would have to run it in a regular manner and point an server tunnel at their local bitcoin port
 935 2011-02-20 08:35:50 <nanotube> ah mm ic
 936 2011-02-20 08:36:47 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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 938 2011-02-20 08:37:54 <mmagic> if nodes forward transactions, is it possible even for a 10-20-connection client to know where a tx originated from?
 939 2011-02-20 08:38:34 <mmagic> and, if not, then the relaying nature of the network, it seems to me, would afford a level of indirection for i2p-located clients
 940 2011-02-20 08:39:56 <brunner> why would anyone use i2p instead of Tor?
 941 2011-02-20 08:40:28 <lfm> why not
 942 2011-02-20 08:41:58 <mmagic> i2p is easier to use, and better in many respects.
 943 2011-02-20 08:42:27 <welterde> brunner: depends on what you want to do.. if you want to access services on the normal internet anonymously.. tor is the right tool for you probably.. if you want to use network-internal services i2p is better suited than tor's hidden services
 944 2011-02-20 08:45:28 <brunner> how so?
 945 2011-02-20 08:45:42 devon_hillard has joined
 946 2011-02-20 08:47:21 <nanotube> brunner: i guess you get to google 'i2p vs tor' :)
 947 2011-02-20 08:47:23 cronopio has quit (Quit: leaving)
 948 2011-02-20 08:51:35 <bk128> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=i2p+vs+tor
 949 2011-02-20 09:09:34 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 950 2011-02-20 09:12:31 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 951 2011-02-20 09:22:11 genjix has quit (Changing host)
 952 2011-02-20 09:22:11 genjix has joined
 953 2011-02-20 09:23:41 <bk128> Diablo-D3: do you always install the nonfree java?
 954 2011-02-20 09:26:48 <Diablo-D3> bk128: I install both.
 955 2011-02-20 09:27:01 <bk128> what does your miner run better with?
 956 2011-02-20 09:27:07 <Diablo-D3> doesnt matter
 957 2011-02-20 09:27:08 <Diablo-D3> its the same code.
 958 2011-02-20 09:27:10 <bk128> okay.
 959 2011-02-20 09:27:20 <Diablo-D3> sun ships a version of openjdk now
 960 2011-02-20 09:31:44 bk128-Droid has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 961 2011-02-20 10:13:37 altamic has joined
 962 2011-02-20 10:14:04 sneak has joined
 963 2011-02-20 10:14:30 sneak is now known as Guest18574
 964 2011-02-20 10:22:04 <necrodearia> Who wants to volunteer to manage "code review?" category?
 965 2011-02-20 10:22:24 <necrodearia> s/?"/"/
 966 2011-02-20 10:22:30 <necrodearia> s/\?"/"/
 967 2011-02-20 10:24:10 <necrodearia> anyone?
 968 2011-02-20 10:24:15 <ducki2p> I would if you have no other takers
 969 2011-02-20 10:25:34 <necrodearia> created
 970 2011-02-20 10:25:40 <necrodearia> grats ducki2p
 971 2011-02-20 10:26:04 <ducki2p> nice one
 972 2011-02-20 10:26:10 <noagendamarket> 0_0
 973 2011-02-20 10:26:47 * ducki2p puts up a sign "noagendamarket keep out"
 974 2011-02-20 10:27:09 <ducki2p> muahahaha
 975 2011-02-20 10:30:01 <necrodearia> http://witticisms.witcoin.com/p/8/Soourceforge-is-compromised doesn't fit in witticisms.  Where does it belong?
 976 2011-02-20 10:30:56 <ducki2p> news
 977 2011-02-20 10:31:07 <necrodearia> news category is not postable
 978 2011-02-20 10:31:11 <necrodearia> parent categories aren't postable
 979 2011-02-20 10:31:14 <necrodearia> only subcategories
 980 2011-02-20 10:31:14 <ducki2p> specifically tech news
 981 2011-02-20 10:31:17 <necrodearia> kk
 982 2011-02-20 10:32:14 <necrodearia> Who would like to volunteer for news -> technology?
 983 2011-02-20 10:32:53 <Diablo-D3> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/VeryDemotivational/~3/4Ki1nKUk45I/
 984 2011-02-20 10:33:39 <necrodearia> hah
 985 2011-02-20 10:34:20 * necrodearia wants to have three arms also
 986 2011-02-20 10:35:59 <necrodearia> Is everyone in the world sleeping?
 987 2011-02-20 10:36:24 <necrodearia> Diablo-D3, Would you like to volunteer for tech news?
 988 2011-02-20 10:37:32 <necrodearia> As a volunteer you are forced to accept a distribution of profits from all posts, replies and upvotes that occur within the category.
 989 2011-02-20 10:39:02 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 990 2011-02-20 10:39:23 <noagendamarket> I can do tech news .  Since I posted the sourceforge story and a tech podcast junkie :)
 991 2011-02-20 10:39:40 <noagendamarket> tech news and agorism lol
 992 2011-02-20 10:39:58 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
 993 2011-02-20 10:40:46 Jeroenz0r has joined
 994 2011-02-20 10:41:17 <necrodearia> noagendamarket, mmkay
 995 2011-02-20 10:51:06 <cosurgi> 18 blocks in last 60 minutes. crazy
 996 2011-02-20 10:51:14 <Diablo-D3> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BHVG/~3/pdBGf_f-L34/
 997 2011-02-20 10:51:18 <Diablo-D3> SON OF A BITCH
 998 2011-02-20 10:51:23 * Diablo-D3 CANT UNSEE
 999 2011-02-20 10:51:24 * Diablo-D3 CANT UNSEE
1000 2011-02-20 10:51:24 * Diablo-D3 CANT UNSEE
1001 2011-02-20 10:51:24 * Diablo-D3 CANT UNSEE
1002 2011-02-20 10:51:24 * Diablo-D3 CANT UNSEE
1003 2011-02-20 10:51:25 * Diablo-D3 CANT UNSEE
1004 2011-02-20 10:51:27 <Diablo-D3> WAAAAAAAAAAGH
1005 2011-02-20 10:53:26 larsivi has joined
1006 2011-02-20 10:53:51 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1007 2011-02-20 10:55:14 devrandom has joined
1008 2011-02-20 10:55:21 <sipa> easy
1009 2011-02-20 10:57:56 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1010 2011-02-20 11:22:35 Zarutian has joined
1011 2011-02-20 11:33:20 booo has joined
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1014 2011-02-20 11:38:35 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1015 2011-02-20 12:08:01 <cosurgi> , look at this table:
1016 2011-02-20 12:08:15 <cosurgi> http://www.corsair.com/hx850w.html
1017 2011-02-20 12:08:47 <cosurgi> can you tell me - to which "DC OUTPUT" those 6 PCI-E Connectors are connected?
1018 2011-02-20 12:09:51 <Diablo-D3> huh?
1019 2011-02-20 12:09:54 <Diablo-D3> its a single rail
1020 2011-02-20 12:10:18 <cosurgi> obviously I don't understand something :)
1021 2011-02-20 12:11:08 <cosurgi> three GPUs, connected to those "6 PCI-E Connectors" draw 3*188=564W,
1022 2011-02-20 12:11:30 <cosurgi> hmm.. but mobo gives some too, about 75W.
1023 2011-02-20 12:12:05 <cosurgi> I've seen a config option in my mobo - how much PCIex16 can give, and by default it's 75W.
1024 2011-02-20 12:12:18 <cosurgi> so those 6 connectors give 3*(188-75)=339 W
1025 2011-02-20 12:13:33 <cosurgi> so the row in table "MAX COMBINED WATTAGE" says that...: if GPUs use +5V outputs, they can give max 150W, while three GPUs need 339W.
1026 2011-02-20 12:13:37 <cosurgi> Where I made a mistake?
1027 2011-02-20 12:13:54 <cosurgi> I think, I may be wrong, that +12V (840W) goes to mobo.
1028 2011-02-20 12:14:26 <cosurgi> brb
1029 2011-02-20 12:16:00 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you're not making sense
1030 2011-02-20 12:16:03 <Diablo-D3> its a single rail.
1031 2011-02-20 12:16:21 <Diablo-D3> and how would the gpus get 5v?
1032 2011-02-20 12:16:31 <Diablo-D3> they dont use power off the mobo, the pci-e pins are 12v only
1033 2011-02-20 12:20:41 <lfm> osme power come in pcie slot
1034 2011-02-20 12:27:04 Daviey has joined
1035 2011-02-20 12:27:04 <cosurgi> ok. so PCI-E are 12v. good to know. I thought that 4pin HDD molex are 5v.
1036 2011-02-20 12:30:09 <[Tycho]> HDD molex is 5+12
1037 2011-02-20 12:30:43 <[Tycho]> GPUs use power from both PSU connectors and PCIe connector.
1038 2011-02-20 12:31:29 <cosurgi> ok, so those 2*molex -> 1*PCI-E cables are using only 12v part of HDD connector?
1039 2011-02-20 12:32:02 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1040 2011-02-20 12:32:23 <[Tycho]> You can see yellow and black wires there.
1041 2011-02-20 12:32:28 <[Tycho]> Red ones are +5
1042 2011-02-20 12:32:35 <cosurgi> yes. ok.
1043 2011-02-20 12:33:11 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: molex are 5+12
1044 2011-02-20 12:33:13 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and no
1045 2011-02-20 12:33:20 <Diablo-D3> gpus really dont use mobo power
1046 2011-02-20 12:33:25 <[Tycho]> They do.
1047 2011-02-20 12:33:29 <Diablo-D3> they dont.
1048 2011-02-20 12:33:34 <Diablo-D3> only if they need 5v and shit
1049 2011-02-20 12:33:35 <cosurgi> good to know :)
1050 2011-02-20 12:33:42 <BlueMatt> They technically do, but almost nothing
1051 2011-02-20 12:33:43 <cosurgi> mobo can give only 5v ?
1052 2011-02-20 12:34:07 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
1053 2011-02-20 12:34:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109297 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1582 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 8 hours, 23 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48127.00171445
1054 2011-02-20 12:34:16 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
1055 2011-02-20 12:34:16 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.9697,"low":0.83,"vol":9550,"buy":0.86,"sell":0.8975,"last":0.8954}}
1056 2011-02-20 12:35:20 <cosurgi> hmm... but there are extra pin with 12v, just to connect to mobo.
1057 2011-02-20 12:35:25 <cosurgi> *pins.
1058 2011-02-20 12:35:41 <[Tycho]> It's additional power for CPU
1059 2011-02-20 12:36:04 <sipa> graphic cards use mobo power
1060 2011-02-20 12:36:07 <sipa> gpu's don't
1061 2011-02-20 12:36:35 <cosurgi> sipa: and the difference is...? Maybe fans on graphics cards are powered from mobo?
1062 2011-02-20 12:36:48 <cosurgi> fan is not GPU, but it belongs to graphic card
1063 2011-02-20 12:37:02 <lfm> some small gpu dont use extra pcie power connects
1064 2011-02-20 12:37:05 <[Tycho]> Oh, yes, i was talking about cards.
1065 2011-02-20 12:37:50 <sipa> a 5970 draws 75W + 150W from pcie connectors, and 75W from mobo
1066 2011-02-20 12:37:55 <cosurgi> so it means that GPUs get power from PCI-E connectors, but fans get power from mobo?
1067 2011-02-20 12:38:00 <sipa> not only fans
1068 2011-02-20 12:38:08 <sipa> i suppose
1069 2011-02-20 12:38:18 <cosurgi> and other extra circuitry.
1070 2011-02-20 12:38:20 <sipa> memory or other chips maybe too?
1071 2011-02-20 12:38:36 <sipa> not sure how they decouple the circuits though
1072 2011-02-20 12:39:09 <cosurgi> hmm... but graphic card draws 5v or 12v from mobo?
1073 2011-02-20 12:39:18 <[Tycho]> PCIe connector (idle/load): 1.1 / 3.7 Amp (PCIe max: 6.25)
1074 2011-02-20 12:39:18 <[Tycho]> 6-pin connector (idle/load): 0.9 / 6.7 Amp (PCIe max: 6.25, the card is slightly over spec)
1075 2011-02-20 12:39:18 <[Tycho]> 8-pin connector (idle/load): 2.2 / 11.4 Amp (PCIe max: 12.5)
1076 2011-02-20 12:39:18 <[Tycho]> Total (idle/load): 4.2 / 21.8 Amp (PCIe max: 25.0)
1077 2011-02-20 12:39:32 <[Tycho]> It's for single 5970
1078 2011-02-20 12:39:46 <lfm> they have to decouple since it would start fires if you forgot the side plugs
1079 2011-02-20 12:39:58 <sipa> i know they have to decouple
1080 2011-02-20 12:40:03 <sipa> i just don't see how they do that
1081 2011-02-20 12:40:27 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1082 2011-02-20 12:40:28 <cosurgi> [Tycho]: how did you get this stats? Can I see some similar stats in debian?
1083 2011-02-20 12:40:44 <bd_> sipa: Power down bits of the GPU core if there's no power from the side plug?
1084 2011-02-20 12:41:04 <bd_> Cut power entirely to the GPU core if the side plug drops while running?
1085 2011-02-20 12:41:05 <[Tycho]> It's not software metering, it's by clamp ampermeter :)
1086 2011-02-20 12:41:15 <cosurgi> oh :)
1087 2011-02-20 12:41:31 <[Tycho]> Here is it - http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
1088 2011-02-20 12:42:20 BlueMatt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1089 2011-02-20 12:42:21 <sipa> bd_: i mean: if the gpu's are powered through connectors, and other chips powered from mobo, how do they prevent current leaking through the circuitry from mobo to connector?
1090 2011-02-20 12:42:40 BlueMatt has joined
1091 2011-02-20 12:43:31 <[Tycho]> sipa, power is regulated anyway from 12 to 1-3 v, so regulating circuit may just not start if not all power lines are provided.
1092 2011-02-20 12:44:28 mtgox has joined
1093 2011-02-20 12:46:01 <Diablo-D3> [07:30:32] <sipa> a 5970 draws 75W + 150W from pcie connectors, and 75W from mobo
1094 2011-02-20 12:46:11 <Diablo-D3> but it has 2 8 pin connectors
1095 2011-02-20 12:46:21 TD_ has joined
1096 2011-02-20 12:47:10 <[Tycho]> No, it has one 8 pin and one 6 pin.
1097 2011-02-20 12:49:59 <[Tycho]> Why bitcoind on FreeBSD doesn't wants to open 8332 port ? Running with -server parameter and bitcoin.conf is present.
1098 2011-02-20 12:50:49 <ducki2p> any error?
1099 2011-02-20 12:52:39 <[Tycho]> No errors.
1100 2011-02-20 12:52:52 <edcba> isn't the port taken ?
1101 2011-02-20 12:54:18 <[Tycho]> No.
1102 2011-02-20 12:54:36 jshjr has joined
1103 2011-02-20 12:54:48 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1104 2011-02-20 12:55:34 jshjr has quit (Client Quit)
1105 2011-02-20 12:56:25 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: feh, whatever
1106 2011-02-20 12:56:36 <Diablo-D3> cards shouldnt be pulling off the pci-e slot anyhow
1107 2011-02-20 12:57:34 <[Tycho]> Why ?
1108 2011-02-20 13:04:14 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1109 2011-02-20 13:06:12 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1110 2011-02-20 13:07:33 <BlueMatt> What would people recommend for a remote gui client which connects to an rpc server?
1111 2011-02-20 13:07:54 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: there isnt one
1112 2011-02-20 13:07:56 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: because.
1113 2011-02-20 13:08:11 <BlueMatt> I saw one a couple days ago in python iirc
1114 2011-02-20 13:08:21 <BlueMatt> cant remember what it was called
1115 2011-02-20 13:08:23 <tcatm> BlueMatt: js-remote :P
1116 2011-02-20 13:08:36 riush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1117 2011-02-20 13:08:40 mtgox has joined
1118 2011-02-20 13:09:02 <BlueMatt> There was a gui one someone here mentioned a couple days ago
1119 2011-02-20 13:11:28 <tcatm> spesmilo?
1120 2011-02-20 13:11:33 <BlueMatt> that was it
1121 2011-02-20 13:11:50 <BlueMatt> anyone used it?
1122 2011-02-20 13:13:12 <tcatm> useable but unstable last I tried
1123 2011-02-20 13:16:46 <lzsaver> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3451.0 this? :)
1124 2011-02-20 13:17:48 <BlueMatt> yea, though I was looking at the github atm
1125 2011-02-20 13:18:21 <BlueMatt> Really cool idea in any case, think Ill try it
1126 2011-02-20 13:20:38 <lzsaver> as I know you can just use bitcoin -rpcconnect=IP to use bitcoin as a rpc client. but it does not work to me...
1127 2011-02-20 13:21:14 riush has joined
1128 2011-02-20 13:21:14 <BlueMatt> although I dont mind cli, it would be nice to have a gui remote as well
1129 2011-02-20 13:21:32 <tcatm> js-remote works well
1130 2011-02-20 13:21:46 <lzsaver> BlueMatt, I know - I did not say bitcoinD
1131 2011-02-20 13:21:47 <BlueMatt> might set that up as well then
1132 2011-02-20 13:22:03 <BlueMatt> lzsaver bitcoin -rpcconnect is still cli
1133 2011-02-20 13:22:10 <lzsaver> oh, ok
1134 2011-02-20 13:22:11 <BlueMatt> it just connects to bitcoind or bitcoin -server
1135 2011-02-20 13:22:13 devrandom has joined
1136 2011-02-20 13:22:20 <lzsaver> I will know
1137 2011-02-20 13:22:39 <nathan7> la la LA LA LA la la LA LA
1138 2011-02-20 13:23:15 <lzsaver> also bitcoind sendtoaddress IP does not work yet :(
1139 2011-02-20 13:23:54 <tcatm> you shouldn't use sendto IP
1140 2011-02-20 13:24:19 <Jeroenz0r> it's disabled on default
1141 2011-02-20 13:24:26 <Jeroenz0r> because it's unsecure
1142 2011-02-20 13:24:53 <lzsaver> tcatm, why?
1143 2011-02-20 13:25:02 <lzsaver> Jero, can I enable it?
1144 2011-02-20 13:25:05 <tcatm> insecure and obsolete
1145 2011-02-20 13:25:12 <BlueMatt> man in the middle attacks could easily steal the funds
1146 2011-02-20 13:25:31 <lzsaver> okay
1147 2011-02-20 13:25:36 <BlueMatt> by changing the btc address which the funds will be sent to
1148 2011-02-20 13:28:10 <BlueMatt> at tcatm makes js-remote, no wonder he loves it so much
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1156 2011-02-20 14:08:57 towerX is now known as tower
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1158 2011-02-20 14:22:07 Bimmerhead has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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1161 2011-02-20 14:30:16 <noagendamarket> is everyone asleep or just stunned into silence with the last difficulty increase ?
1162 2011-02-20 14:31:40 <sipa> both
1163 2011-02-20 14:32:46 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,calc 44026
1164 2011-02-20 14:32:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 44026 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 5 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, and 53 seconds
1165 2011-02-20 14:35:10 <[Tycho]> No.
1166 2011-02-20 14:36:19 * xelister is awake
1167 2011-02-20 14:36:36 <xelister> guys what do you think of buying BTC @ 0.80
1168 2011-02-20 14:37:20 <xelister> the things is that we agree now, but the coins are sent (at agreed price) 1 month from now
1169 2011-02-20 14:37:24 <BlueMatt> xelister: can you find a seller @.8?
1170 2011-02-20 14:37:34 <xelister> yes
1171 2011-02-20 14:37:53 <BlueMatt> then yea, there are buyers on mtg @.85
1172 2011-02-20 14:37:56 <LtBrenton> xelister: so basically a call option?
1173 2011-02-20 14:38:30 <xelister> LtBrenton: yeap
1174 2011-02-20 14:38:55 <BlueMatt> if you can find a seller who will agree to that, Id do it
1175 2011-02-20 14:39:50 <BlueMatt> but seriously, anyone agreeing to a that is not particularly smart
1176 2011-02-20 14:40:34 <xelister> why not?
1177 2011-02-20 14:40:34 <LtBrenton> BlueMatt, that's trading for ya :p
1178 2011-02-20 14:40:58 <xelister> its like ordering gold.. it anyway takes now month or more to deliver often
1179 2011-02-20 14:41:01 <BlueMatt> the common consensus is that the price will rise
1180 2011-02-20 14:41:34 <LtBrenton> BlueMatt, I rush-sold 100 coins at 0.85 a week or so ago, I needed the money within hours
1181 2011-02-20 14:42:16 <BlueMatt> Yes, but not many people would buy for .8 in a month
1182 2011-02-20 14:42:30 <BlueMatt> if the prices are up, then its a great deal for xelister, but for the seller...not so much
1183 2011-02-20 14:42:42 <LtBrenton> BlueMatt, then the seller is obviously going on different logic
1184 2011-02-20 14:42:52 <LtBrenton> a trade is never a good deal for both sides :p
1185 2011-02-20 14:42:57 <BlueMatt> this is true
1186 2011-02-20 14:43:00 <BlueMatt> but its a risk thing
1187 2011-02-20 14:43:07 <xelister> well here
1188 2011-02-20 14:43:07 <sipa> of course it is
1189 2011-02-20 14:43:09 <BlueMatt> I might agree to sell @1
1190 2011-02-20 14:43:11 <sipa> if you have money
1191 2011-02-20 14:43:14 <sipa> and i have bread
1192 2011-02-20 14:43:22 <BlueMatt> bc it might go up to that, or might not make as high
1193 2011-02-20 14:43:32 <sipa> and you're hungry
1194 2011-02-20 14:43:33 <LtBrenton> sipa: we're talking specifically commods/fx here :P
1195 2011-02-20 14:43:34 <xelister> the seller wants to be obsolutelly sure he will sell not lower then at say 0.85 or some other price, the coins that he will produce in next month
1196 2011-02-20 14:43:40 <BlueMatt> thus I might come out on top, or the buyer might
1197 2011-02-20 14:44:14 <BlueMatt> Yes, but if most people think the price will rise, someone else would offer a higher price
1198 2011-02-20 14:44:21 <BlueMatt> and he should also look for one
1199 2011-02-20 14:51:23 booo has joined
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1201 2011-02-20 14:57:43 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
1202 2011-02-20 14:58:05 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
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1205 2011-02-20 14:58:54 <[Tycho]> Wow, you just invented futures contracts :)
1206 2011-02-20 14:59:59 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1207 2011-02-20 15:00:07 <BlueMatt> There is a tutorial for them on -otc's wiki
1208 2011-02-20 15:00:34 <BlueMatt> They are very important for businesses who might consider accepting btc
1209 2011-02-20 15:00:52 Jeroenz0r has joined
1210 2011-02-20 15:01:23 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
1211 2011-02-20 15:01:50 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1212 2011-02-20 15:02:45 rwcx has joined
1213 2011-02-20 15:03:49 <Blitzboom> is it intended that you can’t use multiple wallets in the client?
1214 2011-02-20 15:03:52 <Blitzboom> at once
1215 2011-02-20 15:04:11 <Blitzboom> imo this would be a lot more comfortable
1216 2011-02-20 15:04:25 Myckel has joined
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1218 2011-02-20 15:04:25 Myckel has joined
1219 2011-02-20 15:04:27 <Blitzboom> for people with more than just one wallet, that is
1220 2011-02-20 15:04:47 <tcatm> yep, that would be useful
1221 2011-02-20 15:07:54 <Blitzboom> so there would be no problems implementing that?
1222 2011-02-20 15:08:40 Prof_BiG_BanG has joined
1223 2011-02-20 15:08:46 <tcatm> The code makes some assumptions (holds current wallet in multiple global variables) about the wallet.
1224 2011-02-20 15:08:57 Kiba has joined
1225 2011-02-20 15:12:43 <echelon> would be nice if each connection to a node was threaded
1226 2011-02-20 15:13:58 <tcatm> For easier DDOS?
1227 2011-02-20 15:14:09 <echelon> hmm?
1228 2011-02-20 15:14:20 rwcx has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1229 2011-02-20 15:14:58 <bd_> echelon: why?
1230 2011-02-20 15:15:00 <tcatm> Threading uses much more memory that you have to share with all threads anyway.
1231 2011-02-20 15:15:23 <echelon> so it wouldn't have to wait for a connection to a single node before it can connect to others
1232 2011-02-20 15:15:55 <tcatm> You can solve that without threads.
1233 2011-02-20 15:21:01 <echelon> and when is block rescanning going to be available?
1234 2011-02-20 15:21:38 <ArtForz> uhhh... "now" ?
1235 2011-02-20 15:21:40 <tcatm> 0.3.20
1236 2011-02-20 15:21:54 <tcatm> ./bitcoin -rescan
1237 2011-02-20 15:22:00 <ArtForz> yep
1238 2011-02-20 15:22:10 <echelon> cool
1239 2011-02-20 15:22:49 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1240 2011-02-20 15:23:54 <Diablo-D3> http://flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Disney-Princess-Jasmine.jpg
1241 2011-02-20 15:24:01 satamusic has joined
1242 2011-02-20 15:24:03 <Diablo-D3> "dude, work out the proportions- her head is twice as wide as her waist"
1243 2011-02-20 15:24:04 <BlueMatt> ???
1244 2011-02-20 15:24:06 <Diablo-D3> ye gods
1245 2011-02-20 15:24:08 <Diablo-D3> its true
1246 2011-02-20 15:24:26 <Diablo-D3> no wonder she seems fuckably short, yet isnt
1247 2011-02-20 15:28:21 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1248 2011-02-20 15:30:31 <BlueMatt> now thats just creepy
1249 2011-02-20 15:30:54 <Diablo-D3> its lik
1250 2011-02-20 15:30:56 <Diablo-D3> *like
1251 2011-02-20 15:31:06 <Diablo-D3> turning everyone who views that into an automatic pedophile
1252 2011-02-20 15:31:09 <Diablo-D3> even if they dont get why
1253 2011-02-20 15:36:07 <TheAncientGoat> Aha, there's the crash
1254 2011-02-20 15:36:15 <TheAncientGoat>  /troll gotta go
1255 2011-02-20 15:37:53 TheKid has joined
1256 2011-02-20 15:38:54 <Netsniper> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gdb6d9fdbjbk3XXfkCIHj4X-OSLg?docId=CNG.7a0509e93accafbdfd4785aad6cc3018.441
1257 2011-02-20 15:38:56 <Netsniper> ha
1258 2011-02-20 15:39:04 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
1259 2011-02-20 15:39:04 TheKid has joined
1260 2011-02-20 15:41:45 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1264 2011-02-20 15:50:35 <[Tycho]> Crash again ?
1265 2011-02-20 15:56:06 dishwara has joined
1266 2011-02-20 15:56:06 <tcatm> Not if you buy some coins.
1267 2011-02-20 15:57:57 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
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1274 2011-02-20 16:09:23 <genjix> Diablo-D3: do you like the powerpuff girls?
1275 2011-02-20 16:09:32 <genjix> check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbUGL0-bN8w <- my favourite film
1276 2011-02-20 16:19:19 <Kiba> ah..
1277 2011-02-20 16:19:25 <Kiba> I remember the powerpuff girl
1278 2011-02-20 16:28:02 gasteve has joined
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1282 2011-02-20 16:32:02 dishwara_ has joined
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1288 2011-02-20 16:40:54 Jeroenz0r has joined
1289 2011-02-20 16:46:53 <xelister> Kiba: still interested in covering interesting topic  etc? see pm
1290 2011-02-20 16:52:43 RBecker has joined
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1296 2011-02-20 17:11:43 BlueMatt_ has joined
1297 2011-02-20 17:12:55 <BlueMatt_> ;:seen tcatm
1298 2011-02-20 17:13:03 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1299 2011-02-20 17:13:26 <BlueMatt_> ;;seen tcatm
1300 2011-02-20 17:13:27 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 hour, 17 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <tcatm> Not if you buy some coins.
1301 2011-02-20 17:15:52 BlueMatt_ has quit (Client Quit)
1302 2011-02-20 17:18:30 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, have you tried accessing RS-232 port on your pandora?
1303 2011-02-20 17:20:01 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
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1306 2011-02-20 17:26:26 molecular has joined
1307 2011-02-20 17:27:29 vincenzoml has joined
1308 2011-02-20 17:32:23 <vincenzoml> Hi, I don't understand one thing of BC: "Once the latest transaction in a coin is buried under enough blocks, the spent transactions before
1309 2011-02-20 17:32:25 <vincenzoml> it can be discarded to save disk space"
1310 2011-02-20 17:32:35 <vincenzoml> what does "enough blocks" mean?
1311 2011-02-20 17:32:46 <TheKid> vincenzoml: enough so that nobody could make a blockchain longer than that
1312 2011-02-20 17:32:52 <TheKid> that would usurp it
1313 2011-02-20 17:32:57 <ArtForz> well, more than "not enough"
1314 2011-02-20 17:33:05 <TheKid> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Blockchain.png
1315 2011-02-20 17:33:23 <ArtForz> "anything before the latest hardcoded checkpoint" is a good candidate for "set in stone"
1316 2011-02-20 17:33:38 <vincenzoml> hm, maybe I should study more. I don't understand if one needs space proportional to the length of the blockchain since the start of the world
1317 2011-02-20 17:33:53 <ArtForz> partially, yes
1318 2011-02-20 17:34:01 <TheKid> not as soon as someone makes a client that clips blocks off that are older than X amount
1319 2011-02-20 17:34:19 <ArtForz> well, actually not even that if you dont need to keep blocks around for other nodes
1320 2011-02-20 17:35:00 <vincenzoml> ArtForz: I don't understand; assuming there can be dishonest nodes, should everyone keep an unbound list of events?
1321 2011-02-20 17:35:14 <ArtForz> huh? unbound list of events?
1322 2011-02-20 17:35:26 <TheKid> ArtForz: I believe he means an untrimmed blockchain
1323 2011-02-20 17:35:36 <vincenzoml> I believe so too
1324 2011-02-20 17:35:49 <TheKid> vincenzoml: dishonest nodes wouldn't be able to transmit their blockchain
1325 2011-02-20 17:35:59 <ArtForz> well, it's a good idea, but not really required
1326 2011-02-20 17:38:27 <lfm> vincenzoml: note that no one has yet implemented any pruning of the block chain nor spent transactions
1327 2011-02-20 17:38:38 <ArtForz> with a hardcoded checkpoint at block X, a dishonest node can send my "dumb" node other blocks appearing to be older than that, but if block 74000 doesn't match it'll just fail beyond that point
1328 2011-02-20 17:39:09 <TheKid> ArtForz: when are hardcoded checkpoints added? Just some recent block before a version goes live?
1329 2011-02-20 17:39:20 <ArtForz> pretty much
1330 2011-02-20 17:39:46 <ArtForz> it basically sets part of the block chain 'in stone'
1331 2011-02-20 17:40:06 <ArtForz> not really neccessary for the basic system, but a nice sanity check
1332 2011-02-20 17:42:26 <molecular> what are all those ~289 BTC transactions happening?
1333 2011-02-20 17:42:39 <TheKid> where?
1334 2011-02-20 17:42:46 <molecular> http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/
1335 2011-02-20 17:42:54 <molecular> is where I'm looking at them
1336 2011-02-20 17:43:03 <molecular> someone sending money in circles?
1337 2011-02-20 17:43:15 <ArtForz> looks like faucet
1338 2011-02-20 17:43:15 <tcatm> molecular: faucet
1339 2011-02-20 17:43:50 <molecular> ah, I see
1340 2011-02-20 17:44:19 <tcatm> also looks like the faucet has only one coin left
1341 2011-02-20 17:44:47 <ArtForz> yea
1342 2011-02-20 17:45:06 <lfm> paying out 0.05 btc at a time and the 285 btc is the change left over returned to the original owner
1343 2011-02-20 17:45:11 <ArtForz> yep
1344 2011-02-20 17:45:30 <ArtForz> at probably also has a 0.03 transaction
1345 2011-02-20 17:45:56 <ArtForz> last one was 288.35 + 0.05, faucet has 288.38 left
1346 2011-02-20 17:46:28 <molecular> hm, the address for the change that is leftover has to be a new one every time?
1347 2011-02-20 17:46:43 <ArtForz> doesnt have to be, but it currently is
1348 2011-02-20 17:47:15 <ArtForz> changing the client to always send change-to-self to the same address isn't really hard
1349 2011-02-20 17:47:32 <lfm> new addresses are used to intentionally make tracing hard for privacy
1350 2011-02-20 17:47:33 <molecular> well, but adresses are cheap enough, no?
1351 2011-02-20 17:47:41 <ArtForz> they're pretty much free
1352 2011-02-20 17:47:55 <lfm> yes new addresses are cheap, we arnt gonna run out
1353 2011-02-20 17:47:58 <molecular> except the wallet will have to be backed up more often
1354 2011-02-20 17:47:59 <xelister> lfm: still you need freenet or tor transport
1355 2011-02-20 17:48:01 <ArtForz> it could be useful if you value security over privacy
1356 2011-02-20 17:48:30 <xelister> to stop tracking
1357 2011-02-20 17:48:31 <Kiba> hey
1358 2011-02-20 17:49:08 <lfm> xelister: thats your opinion
1359 2011-02-20 17:49:30 Prof_BiG_BanG has quit (Changing host)
1360 2011-02-20 17:49:30 Prof_BiG_BanG has joined
1361 2011-02-20 17:49:43 <xelister> lfm: without anonymous transport, it is not so hard to tie transactions to IPs
1362 2011-02-20 17:49:52 <ArtForz> always sending change to a fixed addr == no need to backup after sends
1363 2011-02-20 17:49:53 <xelister> even with that you need to be carefull
1364 2011-02-20 17:50:10 <ArtForz> xelister: define "not so hard"
1365 2011-02-20 17:50:10 <lfm> xelister so you say, I have yet to see it done
1366 2011-02-20 17:52:01 <xelister> ArtForz: with enough bad (logging) nodes, you may track which IP first shown up given transcation, it may be the computer that actually is doing this transaction.  Especially if there is a series of transactions from same IP (e.g. donating to EFF each week 5 btc), then this is a good indication
1367 2011-02-20 17:52:16 <xelister> assuming no speciall precausions where taken to void such detection
1368 2011-02-20 17:52:22 <ArtForz> so... same way you'd attack freenet opennet
1369 2011-02-20 17:52:28 <xelister> exactly
1370 2011-02-20 17:52:47 <xelister> actually, wait, the TX is traveling network as unencrypted package right?
1371 2011-02-20 17:52:54 <ArtForz> sure
1372 2011-02-20 17:52:58 <xelister> so you can just force ISPs to log bitcoin traffic
1373 2011-02-20 17:53:04 <xelister> and then you can see ALL such transactions
1374 2011-02-20 17:53:13 <xelister> e.g. I would do that in USA for USA IPs if I would be IRS
1375 2011-02-20 17:53:14 <ArtForz> erm, no you can't
1376 2011-02-20 17:53:26 <xelister> why not?
1377 2011-02-20 17:53:27 <lfm> xelister: nope, they could be travelling over vpn
1378 2011-02-20 17:53:31 <ArtForz> yep
1379 2011-02-20 17:53:39 <xelister> yes thats what I said about speciall precausions
1380 2011-02-20 17:53:51 <xelister> if you DO take messures like tor, i2p, own vpn or freenet etc, then sure
1381 2011-02-20 17:53:54 <lfm> so you cant know
1382 2011-02-20 17:54:13 <ArtForz> set up a tunnel or a TOR hidden service node and you have plausible deniability
1383 2011-02-20 17:54:30 <xelister> but just using normal naked default bitcoin, would be monitored in such attack, and attacker (e.g. gov/irs ordering copy of bitcoin traffic) would know all transactions (between such 'not carefull') nodes, yes?
1384 2011-02-20 17:55:04 <xelister> yes I know it can be secure :) Im here arguing point that default bitcoin "just installed normally" etc, is NOT anonymous against government
1385 2011-02-20 17:55:08 <lfm> xelister: you cant enev know if me and my neigbor shar a lan which of us made a txn or a block
1386 2011-02-20 17:55:21 <ArtForz> yep
1387 2011-02-20 17:55:32 <ArtForz> well, right now it is
1388 2011-02-20 17:55:56 <xelister> tell that to people in prison because they clicked funny linked titled "hot jailbaits" in spam mail (actually sent on this purpose by FBI)
1389 2011-02-20 17:56:08 <lfm> thats even assuming you could get every isp in the world to monitor traffic for ya
1390 2011-02-20 17:56:29 <xelister> no no officer it was not my, it was my cat.. neighbour.. my neighbour's cat over unsecured wifi!
1391 2011-02-20 17:56:48 <ArtForz> xelister: last time I checked, bitcoin is not a whatchacallit offence (no need to prove intent)
1392 2011-02-20 17:57:09 <xelister> lfm: then IRS seizes the computer of you, neighbor, and cat
1393 2011-02-20 17:57:17 <xelister> opens bitcoin wallet and bam
1394 2011-02-20 17:57:33 <xelister> still we talk here about normall user, not us geeks, so he has unencrypted drive
1395 2011-02-20 17:57:36 <ArtForz> *nothing there expect whats in my books*
1396 2011-02-20 17:57:39 <ArtForz> *except
1397 2011-02-20 17:57:54 <Jeroenz0r> FFFFFF
1398 2011-02-20 17:58:00 <Jeroenz0r> bitcoin is already running
1399 2011-02-20 17:58:05 <Jeroenz0r> nothing in taskman
1400 2011-02-20 17:58:11 <lfm> xelister: in this country they still need grounds for such actions
1401 2011-02-20 17:58:14 <Jeroenz0r> but there are still people connected on 8333
1402 2011-02-20 17:59:10 <xelister> ArtForz: but technically government CAN know what transactions you (almost for sure) did.  I do not say you will streight go to jail for that or something,  but that it is technically possible for gov to obtain such information.  And how it will be use... and will it wrrant a search or arrrest or just more observation, well, do YOU trust your gov to always be good about this?
1403 2011-02-20 17:59:26 <xelister> lfm: there are other countries
1404 2011-02-20 17:59:32 <xelister> recent examples
1405 2011-02-20 17:59:49 <ArtForz> yeah, guess you shouldn't use bitcoin in china then.
1406 2011-02-20 17:59:52 <xelister> FBI sends spam with links to some jailbaits and JAILS the guys that clicked it even by mistake
1407 2011-02-20 18:00:07 <lfm> xelister: ok assuming I move to china then I might be more worried
1408 2011-02-20 18:00:18 <ArtForz> xelister: again, thats because the law is fucking stupid
1409 2011-02-20 18:00:23 <xelister> I know it is
1410 2011-02-20 18:00:28 <xelister> this is why you should be anon
1411 2011-02-20 18:00:39 <xelister> (or pass better law, which ever is easier for you ;)
1412 2011-02-20 18:00:39 <Jeroenz0r> How can i close used ports?
1413 2011-02-20 18:00:44 vincenzoml has left ()
1414 2011-02-20 18:01:01 <Jeroenz0r> the are all CLOSE WAIT :(
1415 2011-02-20 18:01:04 <xelister> Some dude sings a song realted to sex,  and for lols paste a kindergarden video as background or something -> now facing jail (few days ago)
1416 2011-02-20 18:01:07 <xelister> and so on
1417 2011-02-20 18:01:07 <BlueMatt> genjix: How might one start spesmilo with an external server?
1418 2011-02-20 18:01:26 <xelister> anyway
1419 2011-02-20 18:01:26 <genjix> BlueMatt: use luke-jr's branch.
1420 2011-02-20 18:01:49 <xelister> so governemnt level attacker is ABLE to know which IP did which transaction (not 100% cetain, but almost sure), correct?
1421 2011-02-20 18:02:05 <xelister> when not using speciall methods (tor,i2p,vpn,freenet) to hide this
1422 2011-02-20 18:02:11 <genjix> BlueMatt: I think here http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo
1423 2011-02-20 18:02:24 <BlueMatt> yep found it, thanks
1424 2011-02-20 18:02:54 <ArtForz> xelister: depends on the level of proof required
1425 2011-02-20 18:03:16 <xelister> why everyone is avoiding my question
1426 2011-02-20 18:03:23 <ArtForz> what question?
1427 2011-02-20 18:03:24 <xelister> "is ABLE to know"
1428 2011-02-20 18:03:34 <xelister> not "prove it in court" but "know"
1429 2011-02-20 18:03:51 <xelister> so governemnt level attacker is ABLE to know which IP did which transaction (not 100% cetain, but almost sure), correct?
1430 2011-02-20 18:03:58 <ArtForz> yes
1431 2011-02-20 18:04:17 <genjix> xelister: maybe not over freenet? :p
1432 2011-02-20 18:04:21 <ArtForz> the question is "how certain" and "is that good enough for a court"
1433 2011-02-20 18:04:25 <xelister> genjix: why not?
1434 2011-02-20 18:04:32 <genjix> idk
1435 2011-02-20 18:04:40 <xelister> ArtForz: actually it is more like "good for search wrrant"
1436 2011-02-20 18:04:40 <genjix> freenet just 'sounds' safe
1437 2011-02-20 18:04:48 <lfm> xelister: the level of ability you are poiting is specially constructed to be enuf to trace bitcoins but not enuf to trace tor. ie narrow special attacker selection
1438 2011-02-20 18:04:59 <ArtForz> freenet opennet has the EXACT SAME problem
1439 2011-02-20 18:05:06 <xelister> ArtForz: yes
1440 2011-02-20 18:05:16 lunaphyte has left ()
1441 2011-02-20 18:05:17 <ArtForz> oh, and TOR does, too
1442 2011-02-20 18:05:27 <xelister> well TOR has other problem, timing attack
1443 2011-02-20 18:05:38 <xelister> byt same result - gov. level (controlls ISPs) can watch all
1444 2011-02-20 18:05:41 <xelister> *but
1445 2011-02-20 18:05:41 <genjix> xelister: also you can buy awus036h alfa, get backtrack, aircrack and find yourself some free internet
1446 2011-02-20 18:06:04 <xelister> genjix: yeap but that convers only some use cases
1447 2011-02-20 18:06:13 <xelister> and thoes are not defaults of how bitcoin is working
1448 2011-02-20 18:06:30 <ArtForz> well, you pretty much can't protect against that
1449 2011-02-20 18:06:36 <xelister> against timing?
1450 2011-02-20 18:06:37 <genjix> isn't that perfect protection?
1451 2011-02-20 18:06:46 <ArtForz> yea
1452 2011-02-20 18:06:50 <xelister> yes you can
1453 2011-02-20 18:06:58 <lfm> odds are they wont bother with fancy technical attack, just install a keylogger or something on your machines while you are out
1454 2011-02-20 18:07:00 <BlueMatt> woo alfa, on one now
1455 2011-02-20 18:07:01 <xelister> my idea for bitcoin-over-freenet provides sollution
1456 2011-02-20 18:07:16 <ArtForz> again, freenet. has. the. same. problem.
1457 2011-02-20 18:07:22 <xelister> lfm: yes there is a lot of problems to safe to be sure
1458 2011-02-20 18:07:23 <genjix> BlueMatt: you have one too? ^^
1459 2011-02-20 18:07:37 <xelister> ArtForz: but it can be secured. as described partiall in the draft
1460 2011-02-20 18:07:38 <EvanR_> ;;bc,stats
1461 2011-02-20 18:07:40 <ArtForz> if you can monitor traffic between all nodes, you can determine who inserted what
1462 2011-02-20 18:07:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109337 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1542 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 5 hours, 27 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47589.46647608
1463 2011-02-20 18:07:47 <xelister> ArtForz: no
1464 2011-02-20 18:07:51 <ArtForz> yes
1465 2011-02-20 18:07:59 <BlueMatt> genjix so useful (injection == all ur wifis r belong to me)
1466 2011-02-20 18:08:04 <genjix> :)
1467 2011-02-20 18:08:08 <xelister> ArtForz: I have a method so that even as ISP seeing all traffic times and exact data, you can NOT know who inserted
1468 2011-02-20 18:08:34 <ArtForz> you mean as your world govt seeing all traffic and all timestamps worldwide
1469 2011-02-20 18:08:39 <xelister> ye
1470 2011-02-20 18:08:39 <genjix> BlueMatt: it cracks fast but i don't get many more APs than my laptop's card
1471 2011-02-20 18:08:47 <xelister> still you can be protected, ArtForz
1472 2011-02-20 18:08:50 <ArtForz> nope
1473 2011-02-20 18:08:55 <xelister> bet 50 btc?
1474 2011-02-20 18:08:57 <genjix> been wondering if I'm doing something wrong (like using the default aerial).
1475 2011-02-20 18:09:13 <xelister> about that you can still make insert that is unprovable
1476 2011-02-20 18:09:25 <xelister> into public freenet fms board eg
1477 2011-02-20 18:09:31 <genjix> mathematically or statistically?
1478 2011-02-20 18:09:33 <lfm> xelister first Ill bet you 50 btc you cant figure out any of the blocks I have ever mined
1479 2011-02-20 18:09:51 <BlueMatt> genjix: Yea unless you get the nicer antenna, it doesnt pick up much more than other cards
1480 2011-02-20 18:10:03 <xelister> brb/tel
1481 2011-02-20 18:10:06 <BlueMatt> genjix: but the injection support is worth it
1482 2011-02-20 18:10:10 <genjix> kk still a sweet device which fulfills all my "needs"
1483 2011-02-20 18:10:13 <genjix> hahahahahahaha
1484 2011-02-20 18:10:22 <BlueMatt> lol, yea
1485 2011-02-20 18:10:26 <xelister> lfm: probably you are correct - *I* am not gov =)
1486 2011-02-20 18:10:34 <ArtForz> while you're at it, figure out which 800 unspent mined blocks are my secret stockpile
1487 2011-02-20 18:10:34 malfy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1488 2011-02-20 18:11:18 malfy has joined
1489 2011-02-20 18:11:22 <ArtForz> and oh, those keys are not in my normal wallet ;)
1490 2011-02-20 18:11:32 <xelister> tor mined?
1491 2011-02-20 18:11:39 <ArtForz> no need to
1492 2011-02-20 18:12:18 <ArtForz> last time I checked, you can't exactly go back in time to monitor past traffic
1493 2011-02-20 18:12:42 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1494 2011-02-20 18:13:21 Necr0s has joined
1495 2011-02-20 18:14:17 * xelister back
1496 2011-02-20 18:14:24 <Necr0s> Why does it looks like my miner generated a batch, yet it doesn't show up in the client?
1497 2011-02-20 18:14:25 <andrew12> wb
1498 2011-02-20 18:14:38 <xelister> Necr0s: should show at least as unconfirmed
1499 2011-02-20 18:14:47 <Necr0s> I see in the CLI window "20/02/2011 10:23 accepted 0000640b".
1500 2011-02-20 18:14:53 <Necr0s> Yeah, I don't see that or anything.
1501 2011-02-20 18:14:54 <xelister> Necr0s: are you sure you didnt connect it into a pool
1502 2011-02-20 18:14:59 <Necr0s> yeah
1503 2011-02-20 18:15:09 <xelister> what miner is that?
1504 2011-02-20 18:15:16 <Necr0s> m0mchil
1505 2011-02-20 18:15:43 <Necr0s> previously generated batches show that I used the same miner for.
1506 2011-02-20 18:16:14 <ArtForz> errr... GUI client?
1507 2011-02-20 18:16:24 <ArtForz> blocks take one additional block to show up
1508 2011-02-20 18:16:49 molecular has joined
1509 2011-02-20 18:16:55 <ArtForz> *generations
1510 2011-02-20 18:17:41 <ArtForz> so people don't go WTF when one block later it turns out it was a fork block and got overtaken by the main chain
1511 2011-02-20 18:17:46 <Necr0s> There should have been more blocks by now.  It's been several hours.
1512 2011-02-20 18:17:54 <ArtForz> ?
1513 2011-02-20 18:17:58 <ArtForz> more blocks where?
1514 2011-02-20 18:18:48 <Necr0s> in the chain
1515 2011-02-20 18:18:52 <Necr0s> the main chain
1516 2011-02-20 18:18:52 <ArtForz> ... why?
1517 2011-02-20 18:19:28 <Necr0s> uh...'cuz there usually are blocks showing up pretty often...
1518 2011-02-20 18:19:41 <ArtForz> you don't know current total network hashrate, so you can't even say how many there should be *on average*
1519 2011-02-20 18:19:46 <ArtForz> and then, random events are random, news at 11.
1520 2011-02-20 18:20:13 <Necr0s> yeah...possible, thougn seeme improbably.
1521 2011-02-20 18:20:20 <Necr0s> improbable
1522 2011-02-20 18:20:21 <ArtForz> what does?
1523 2011-02-20 18:20:38 <Necr0s> that there have been nore more blocks added
1524 2011-02-20 18:21:01 <ArtForz> yeah. theres *only* been like 30 in the last 3 hours
1525 2011-02-20 18:21:10 <ArtForz> and obviously 30 is a lot less than 18
1526 2011-02-20 18:21:25 <ArtForz> oh, it isn't?
1527 2011-02-20 18:23:17 <ArtForz> so ... wtf are you talking about?
1528 2011-02-20 18:23:38 <Kiba> gene had become an insulting troll
1529 2011-02-20 18:23:46 Omni is now known as AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Omnifarious
1530 2011-02-20 18:23:59 * Kiba was trying to discuss/debate rationally
1531 2011-02-20 18:24:15 popeye has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1532 2011-02-20 18:24:33 <ArtForz> Kiba: ?
1533 2011-02-20 18:24:34 <Kiba> but when somebody say it's wrong, and insult your characters..well
1534 2011-02-20 18:25:05 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1535 2011-02-20 18:25:07 <Kiba> ArtForz: just some guy who's not very good at discussing and learning
1536 2011-02-20 18:25:17 <ArtForz> on forum or something?
1537 2011-02-20 18:25:20 <Kiba> yeah
1538 2011-02-20 18:25:25 <ArtForz> ahhh, yeah
1539 2011-02-20 18:25:34 <Kiba> he just say it's wrong without actually proving it's actually so
1540 2011-02-20 18:25:37 <ArtForz> hasnt gene been trolling there for like months
1541 2011-02-20 18:25:40 <Kiba> or he insult something and misunderstood
1542 2011-02-20 18:25:46 <Kiba> what I actually say
1543 2011-02-20 18:26:48 <Kiba> when I didn't have something backed up, he insult me
1544 2011-02-20 18:26:58 <Kiba> but failed to make a rational argument
1545 2011-02-20 18:27:10 <Kiba> and misunderstood me anyway
1546 2011-02-20 18:28:20 <Kiba> I mean..even when I am wrong in one way..he doesn't make good arguments...WTF is that?
1547 2011-02-20 18:28:53 <lfm> kiba only thing you can really do is ignore them
1548 2011-02-20 18:29:13 <ArtForz> pretty much
1549 2011-02-20 18:29:24 <Kiba> I can't help when somebody got it wrong when nailing a wrong statement :(
1550 2011-02-20 18:29:49 <ArtForz> *cue xkcd link*
1551 2011-02-20 18:31:08 sgornick has joined
1552 2011-02-20 18:31:35 <xelister> ArtForz: well for 4000 BTC it could be implemented so that freenet is untracable, even by world government monitoring all tranmissions, all timestamps and all data
1553 2011-02-20 18:32:19 <xelister> ArtForz: only attack that could work would be extreme messures like say destroying/blocking 90% of freenet nodes, or "all nodes but the suspected insertor", or non-internet attacks like bugging suspects home etc
1554 2011-02-20 18:32:46 <xelister> also it would be around much slower, but o.k. for passing messages or bitcoin transactions
1555 2011-02-20 18:33:17 <xelister> and downloading blockchain to get (delayed) confirmations and incoming transaction (if BtcFn would also use such improved/paranoid freenet)
1556 2011-02-20 18:35:08 <xelister> I could write draft for this for 300 btc and disprove anny suggested methods to attack that (that would require anything less then blocking/distrupting almost all fn nodes, even darknet ones - so practially totally impossible)
1557 2011-02-20 18:35:44 <xelister> payed when all suggested attacks are disproven... :) interested anyone?
1558 2011-02-20 18:36:57 dirtyfilthy has joined
1559 2011-02-20 18:37:51 <ArtForz> meh
1560 2011-02-20 18:38:15 <TD> hey dirtyfilthy
1561 2011-02-20 18:38:26 <xelister> ArtForz: you don't belive it is possible?
1562 2011-02-20 18:38:27 <ArtForz> so you protect against one single variant of "all powerful world government"... useless
1563 2011-02-20 18:38:52 <xelister> ArtForz: no it protects for all attacks that can be practically carried out! you want more?  like against what?
1564 2011-02-20 18:39:40 <ArtForz> *all* practical attacks?
1565 2011-02-20 18:39:52 <xelister> yes
1566 2011-02-20 18:40:14 <xelister> or better, describe the attack - what attacker is able to do, what resources
1567 2011-02-20 18:40:33 <ArtForz> I just think your attacker profile is very ... lopsided
1568 2011-02-20 18:41:52 <xelister> hm??
1569 2011-02-20 18:41:56 <xelister> O_o
1570 2011-02-20 18:42:20 <ArtForz> well, you have a attacker capable of monitoring all communications, yet not able to mount a sybil attack...
1571 2011-02-20 18:42:21 <xelister> I said it will protect against even attacker as powerfull as world government that has ALL DATA POSSIBLE on ALL DATA TRANSMISSIONS IN THE INTERNET
1572 2011-02-20 18:42:30 <xelister> yes, sure
1573 2011-02-20 18:42:44 <xelister> attacker can make whatever nodes at will, can use thousands of IPs and servers
1574 2011-02-20 18:42:54 <xelister> and even compromise some of good nodes (e.g. of freenet darknet friends)
1575 2011-02-20 18:42:59 <xelister> now better? :)
1576 2011-02-20 18:45:19 <xelister> as long as attacker will not sieze  70% of your friends (both close friends and 'well-knonw' freedom related people).
1577 2011-02-20 18:45:58 <xelister> (but if attacker can do THAT, then he may as well force on of them to say you forgot to put on a rubber 5 years ago and/or just assasinate you  etc)
1578 2011-02-20 18:46:03 <xelister> *one of
1579 2011-02-20 18:46:19 lfm has quit (Quit: bye, gotta go)
1580 2011-02-20 18:48:40 <xelister> I thought above is the holly grail of crypto networks ;)
1581 2011-02-20 18:48:49 <xelister> or do you see any better situation
1582 2011-02-20 18:48:55 <ArtForz> that sounds a bit like onion routing w/ chaffing
1583 2011-02-20 18:49:21 bitcoiner has joined
1584 2011-02-20 18:50:19 <xelister> ArtForz: what do you mean by that?
1585 2011-02-20 18:50:22 <Kiba> put on a rubber five years ago?
1586 2011-02-20 18:52:14 mbarkhau has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1587 2011-02-20 18:52:20 <luke-jr> genjix: huh? external JSON-RPC is part of master, not tonal
1588 2011-02-20 18:52:53 <genjix> he means that dialog where you can configure the path for core
1589 2011-02-20 18:52:59 <genjix> i saw it on master
1590 2011-02-20 18:53:16 <luke-jr> genjix: right, that's part of master
1591 2011-02-20 18:53:19 <luke-jr> not my tonal branch :P
1592 2011-02-20 18:54:00 <genjix> yeah i meant the new repo you made
1593 2011-02-20 18:54:18 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1594 2011-02-20 18:54:23 <xelister> "<Kiba> put on a rubber five years ago?" --->  Assange
1595 2011-02-20 18:54:30 <genjix> how do I pull changes from a remote branch?
1596 2011-02-20 18:54:31 <luke-jr> genjix: o. I thought you were using it too, now? :P
1597 2011-02-20 18:54:35 <genjix> i am
1598 2011-02-20 18:54:39 <luke-jr> git pull <remotename>
1599 2011-02-20 18:54:46 <luke-jr> git pull <remotename> <branchname>
1600 2011-02-20 18:55:06 <genjix> fatal: 'master' does not appear to be a git repository
1601 2011-02-20 18:55:07 <genjix> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
1602 2011-02-20 18:55:42 <genjix> ok git pull gitor master worked :p
1603 2011-02-20 18:55:46 <genjix> thx
1604 2011-02-20 18:55:53 <luke-jr> np
1605 2011-02-20 18:56:14 <Kiba> xelister: sex is best done without a rubber
1606 2011-02-20 19:01:23 <cosurgi> UukGoblin: no.
1607 2011-02-20 19:07:29 <UukGoblin> oh, btw, you guys might know - are there any good USB <-> RS-232 converters that can actually do CTS/RTS and all the other RS-232 lines apart from RX/TX?
1608 2011-02-20 19:07:34 <TD> ah, it's too bad hals challenge is busted
1609 2011-02-20 19:07:45 <TD> i was quite hoping to claim it
1610 2011-02-20 19:07:54 <TD> but i think if it was working, i would have been too late anyway
1611 2011-02-20 19:08:02 bk128 has joined
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1613 2011-02-20 19:08:02 bk128 has joined
1614 2011-02-20 19:10:10 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1615 2011-02-20 19:13:17 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
1616 2011-02-20 19:13:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109350 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1529 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 31 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47881.80070904
1617 2011-02-20 19:14:46 steve__ has joined
1618 2011-02-20 19:15:42 steve__ has quit (Client Quit)
1619 2011-02-20 19:18:36 RBecker has quit (Quit: You're the only one that understands. The only one that cares. The only one that cares. The only one that I love.)
1620 2011-02-20 19:19:14 dishwara has left ()
1621 2011-02-20 19:19:37 RBecker has joined
1622 2011-02-20 19:19:58 Lachesis has joined
1623 2011-02-20 19:23:10 sabalaba has joined
1624 2011-02-20 19:23:47 <bk128> just installed debian 6 x64 on a new amd system with 2 ati 5870 cards.  trying  to install fglrx with this guide http://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#Squeeze .  when I switch to a virtual terminal, stop gdm and run "modprobe -r radeon drm" it says "FATAL: module radeon is in use"
1625 2011-02-20 19:24:28 <ArtForz> well, so something is still using radeon module
1626 2011-02-20 19:24:55 <ArtForz> lsmod | grep radeon
1627 2011-02-20 19:26:00 <bk128> radeon, ttm, drm_kms_helper,drm,i2c_algo_bit, i2c_core
1628 2011-02-20 19:26:24 <bk128> kill it?
1629 2011-02-20 19:26:48 <ArtForz> well, it should show something like "radeon   some_number 1 module_using_radeon"
1630 2011-02-20 19:27:38 <ArtForz> if not, you probably still have X running (weird, it should get killed when you stop gdm)
1631 2011-02-20 19:28:30 <RBecker> not neccessairly
1632 2011-02-20 19:28:32 <RBecker> xterm
1633 2011-02-20 19:28:48 <ArtForz> he said he switched to VT and stopped gdm
1634 2011-02-20 19:28:57 <RBecker> yeah I saw that
1635 2011-02-20 19:29:06 <ArtForz> which normally stops X on debian unless you manually confugred something like multiple X servers
1636 2011-02-20 19:30:26 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
1637 2011-02-20 19:30:29 <ArtForz> ps aux | grep gdm
1638 2011-02-20 19:31:18 <ArtForz> if you did a /etc/init.d/gdm stop as root and a gdm is still running, kill it
1639 2011-02-20 19:31:39 <bk128> nothing that says just "gdm"
1640 2011-02-20 19:31:44 <ArtForz> weird
1641 2011-02-20 19:32:01 <ArtForz> got a /usr/bin/X going?
1642 2011-02-20 19:32:11 <bk128> no
1643 2011-02-20 19:32:20 <ArtForz> then radeon shouldnt be in use...
1644 2011-02-20 19:33:23 Jeroenz0r has joined
1645 2011-02-20 19:33:26 <bk128> http://imgur.com/UEhNr
1646 2011-02-20 19:33:55 <ArtForz> yeah, so radeon is used by something not in kernel
1647 2011-02-20 19:33:59 <bk128> I always have the worst luck
1648 2011-02-20 19:34:02 <ArtForz> = in use by userspace program
1649 2011-02-20 19:34:17 <ArtForz> but with no X running, what the hell is using it
1650 2011-02-20 19:34:25 <bk128> oh, I have to close programs before killing gdm? >_<
1651 2011-02-20 19:34:48 <ArtForz> normally, no
1652 2011-02-20 19:34:56 <bk128> should I just reboot?
1653 2011-02-20 19:34:58 <ArtForz> stopping gdm also terminates X session
1654 2011-02-20 19:35:04 <ArtForz> hmmm... you shouldn't have to
1655 2011-02-20 19:35:11 <bk128> would it hurt?
1656 2011-02-20 19:35:21 <ArtForz> probably not
1657 2011-02-20 19:35:42 <bk128> just wondering, is sudo shutdown -r now the proper way to to it?
1658 2011-02-20 19:36:00 <ArtForz> I usually just do "reboot" ;)
1659 2011-02-20 19:36:12 <ArtForz> saves typing
1660 2011-02-20 19:36:12 <bk128> alias?
1661 2011-02-20 19:36:34 <bk128> I haven't linuxed in a while :)
1662 2011-02-20 19:36:58 <ArtForz> iirc part of a default system tools package
1663 2011-02-20 19:37:31 <ArtForz> ahhh, provided by sysvinit ;)
1664 2011-02-20 19:37:50 <ArtForz> = should be on any debian system
1665 2011-02-20 19:39:00 <bk128> ugh, now when I try to go to a virtual terminal my tv shows "no signal"  don't have a monitor out in my apartment so I'm using dvi>hdmi
1666 2011-02-20 19:39:11 <ArtForz> huh, weird
1667 2011-02-20 19:39:43 <ArtForz> when in doubt, ssh in ;)
1668 2011-02-20 19:39:46 <bk128> as I said, worst luck
1669 2011-02-20 19:39:52 <ArtForz> also makes pastebinning stuff a lot easier
1670 2011-02-20 19:40:03 <bk128> yes.   brilliant :)
1671 2011-02-20 19:41:51 <bk128> and this time modprobe -r worked!
1672 2011-02-20 19:41:54 puddinpop has joined
1673 2011-02-20 19:42:01 <bk128> Thought you didn't have to reboot linux like this :p
1674 2011-02-20 19:42:07 <ArtForz> normally you don't have to
1675 2011-02-20 19:42:20 <ArtForz> but gfx drivers are weird that way
1676 2011-02-20 19:42:26 RichardG has joined
1677 2011-02-20 19:42:31 <bk128> i know. should i use aticonfig --initial or can you help me manually edit it?
1678 2011-02-20 19:42:32 <ArtForz> probably something decided to fuck itself on X shutdown
1679 2011-02-20 19:42:32 <Jeroenz0r> Status: 36 comfirms
1680 2011-02-20 19:42:36 <Jeroenz0r> who confirms what?
1681 2011-02-20 19:42:46 <Jeroenz0r> that it was a legit payment?
1682 2011-02-20 19:42:47 <BlueMatt> the network confirms the transaction
1683 2011-02-20 19:42:50 <ArtForz> blocks confirm transactions, by existing
1684 2011-02-20 19:43:09 <BlueMatt> by "proof of work" ie finding a sha256 hash that matches the difficulty
1685 2011-02-20 19:43:15 <bk128> ArtForz: would there have been a way to fix it without reboot?
1686 2011-02-20 19:43:17 <Jeroenz0r> It was unable to see where the payment came from :(
1687 2011-02-20 19:43:27 <ArtForz> X confirmations = X blocks in block chain after the block that contains that transaction
1688 2011-02-20 19:43:37 <Jeroenz0r> aha
1689 2011-02-20 19:43:37 <ArtForz> bk128: probably not
1690 2011-02-20 19:44:02 <Jeroenz0r> Also, I had this hang of BitCoin.exe
1691 2011-02-20 19:44:12 <Jeroenz0r> And windows didn't release the port 8333
1692 2011-02-20 19:44:19 <Jeroenz0r> So I had to reboot >.<
1693 2011-02-20 19:44:39 <ArtForz> the usual problem is on X shutdown shit gets stuck in a call in kernelmode, only way to fix it is a reboot
1694 2011-02-20 19:44:42 <Jeroenz0r> There where CLOSE_WAIT conections from the process bitcoin.exe
1695 2011-02-20 19:44:58 <Jeroenz0r> but no bitcoin.exe process :|
1696 2011-02-20 19:45:03 <ArtForz> yes
1697 2011-02-20 19:45:12 <ArtForz> thats perfectly normal
1698 2011-02-20 19:45:31 <chaord> hi guys...anyone in the mood to make a quick buck today? I need a patch (should be straightforward for anyone who knows the code well) asap
1699 2011-02-20 19:45:45 <bk128> ArtForz: just did aticonfig --initial http://pastebin.com/BKqxJaWC  I have 2 ati 5870's in there.  I thought it would be showing 2 devices
1700 2011-02-20 19:45:51 <Jeroenz0r> I could not start BitCoin becouse it was ' already opened'
1701 2011-02-20 19:45:57 <ArtForz> aticonfig --adapter=all --initial -f
1702 2011-02-20 19:45:59 altamic has joined
1703 2011-02-20 19:46:04 <bk128> thanks
1704 2011-02-20 19:46:07 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1705 2011-02-20 19:46:07 altamic has joined
1706 2011-02-20 19:47:39 <devrandom> ArtForz - question about the ASICs
1707 2011-02-20 19:48:00 <ArtForz> yea?
1708 2011-02-20 19:48:06 <Jeroenz0r> Why was BitCoin unable to see where the payment came from?
1709 2011-02-20 19:48:08 <devrandom> they are 5x better in MH/W
1710 2011-02-20 19:48:11  has joined
1711 2011-02-20 19:48:19 <ArtForz> mroe like 11x
1712 2011-02-20 19:48:24 <devrandom> but 3x worse in $/MH
1713 2011-02-20 19:48:42 <devrandom> that's on a 90nm process
1714 2011-02-20 19:48:56 <ArtForz> for this batch, yes, for later batches, about 1.5x worse
1715 2011-02-20 19:49:27 <devrandom> any guesstimate on what a full custom at state of the art gate sizes would do?
1716 2011-02-20 19:49:49 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1717 2011-02-20 19:50:53 <ArtForz> another factor of 3-4 on power, per-unit about a factor of 5 on hashrate/$
1718 2011-02-20 19:51:33 <ArtForz> fixed costs make it pretty uninteresting at current scale of network
1719 2011-02-20 19:51:54 <devrandom> so that's about 50x better on H/w and 2x better on H/$?
1720 2011-02-20 19:51:59 <ArtForz> yes
1721 2011-02-20 19:52:09 <[Tycho]> 1.5x worse that what ?
1722 2011-02-20 19:52:12 <ArtForz> + a 7-digit sum up front
1723 2011-02-20 19:52:16 RazielZ has quit ()
1724 2011-02-20 19:52:36 <ArtForz> GPUs
1725 2011-02-20 19:53:03 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1726 2011-02-20 19:53:03 <devrandom> thanks...
1727 2011-02-20 19:53:23 <devrandom> I expressed my concerns about attack by a nation state (China?) yesterday
1728 2011-02-20 19:54:03 <ArtForz> mask sets at 40nm arent cheap, so are chip designers versed in designing stuff at the transistor level at those geometries
1729 2011-02-20 19:54:11 <bk128> ArtForz: wait, should I have installed fglrx-driver from debian contrib non-free or this one http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/linux/Pages/radeon_linux.aspx?type=2.4.1&product=2.4.1.3.42&lang=English ?
1730 2011-02-20 19:54:23 <ArtForz> bk128: doesnt matter really
1731 2011-02-20 19:54:25 <devrandom> lets say the network gets to $100M in capital equipment, an attack could be mounted with just $10M
1732 2011-02-20 19:54:31 <bk128> just use stream sdk 2.1?
1733 2011-02-20 19:54:35 <ArtForz> yep
1734 2011-02-20 19:54:44 genjix has joined
1735 2011-02-20 19:55:27 <bk128> the 64 bit binary? Linux miner1 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Wed Jan 12 03:40:32 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
1736 2011-02-20 19:55:35 <ArtForz> yep
1737 2011-02-20 19:55:47 <ArtForz> well, if the network gets to that scale, we'll probably already have someone selling such chips
1738 2011-02-20 19:56:07  is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-230-92.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1739 2011-02-20 19:56:27 <devrandom> that's a good point
1740 2011-02-20 19:57:26 <devrandom> if chips are required, it would still prevent people under such regimes from mining
1741 2011-02-20 19:57:34 <ArtForz> yep
1742 2011-02-20 19:57:41 <ArtForz> it pretty much boils down to "attacker needs to invest more $ in mining equipment than the rest of the network combined"
1743 2011-02-20 19:58:03 <devrandom> luckily taiwan is not controlled by china (yet)
1744 2011-02-20 19:58:36 <bk128> ArtForz: http://imgur.com/a/xxALX look a little familiar?  :)  I'm going to finish it next weekend.  prob run a bit underclocked for now
1745 2011-02-20 19:59:03 <ArtForz> so there will always be a risk of a govt outmining the network unless bitcoin becomes *massive*
1746 2011-02-20 19:59:42 <ArtForz> hmmm... looks somewhat familiar ;)
1747 2011-02-20 19:59:59 <devrandom> ArtForz - what do you think about the possibility of adding a proof-of-work algorithm that has a large memory lookup component??
1748 2011-02-20 20:00:17 <ArtForz> well, that'd still have the same problem
1749 2011-02-20 20:00:27 <devrandom> (oops, didn't mean to have two question marks there...)
1750 2011-02-20 20:00:34 <bk128> 10-32 does not hold in mdf all all.  don't bother tapping if you only have 10-32 :p
1751 2011-02-20 20:00:42 <devrandom> it seems that memory can't be optimized much in hw
1752 2011-02-20 20:00:46 <ArtForz> I didnt pre-tap my holes
1753 2011-02-20 20:00:54 <devrandom> so GPUs might remain competitive
1754 2011-02-20 20:00:59 <bk128> I wish we had metric shit here.  I can't even find a metric size drill set for a reasonable price.  dewalt sells metric on amazon.uk but they don't ship here
1755 2011-02-20 20:01:02 <ArtForz> just drilled to 3mm (or was it 2.8?) and let the screws self-tap
1756 2011-02-20 20:01:25 <ArtForz> well, the threaded ends of the hex standoffs
1757 2011-02-20 20:01:33 <bk128> yeah.  I tried one and it fell right out.  had to stick toothpicks in all the holes
1758 2011-02-20 20:01:49 <ArtForz> devrandom: yes, but thats still "attacker who throws more $ at it wins"
1759 2011-02-20 20:01:53 <bk128> I didn't have any wood screws at my apartment
1760 2011-02-20 20:01:57 <tcatm> devrandom: memory is cheap
1761 2011-02-20 20:02:00 <ArtForz> huh, weird
1762 2011-02-20 20:02:11 <bk128> going to rely on the front and back covers to keep it together
1763 2011-02-20 20:02:29 <devrandom> if GPUs remain competitive, mining will still be popular and a compute attack will require more resources proportionately
1764 2011-02-20 20:02:54 <devrandom> tcatm - yes, but it's cheap for both the good miners and the attacker, so it's a leveler
1765 2011-02-20 20:03:01 <bk128> ArtForz: do I need to be running a gui to install the stream sdk?
1766 2011-02-20 20:03:03 <tcatm> same for GPUs
1767 2011-02-20 20:03:11 <ArtForz> bk128: for installing, no
1768 2011-02-20 20:03:17 <ArtForz> devrandom: I wouldnt bet on that
1769 2011-02-20 20:03:25 <bk128> ArtForz: do I ever need a gui again?
1770 2011-02-20 20:03:28 <ArtForz> yes
1771 2011-02-20 20:03:39 <ArtForz> OpenCL needs X running
1772 2011-02-20 20:03:58 <bk128> which means just log in normally and run gnome?
1773 2011-02-20 20:04:04 <bk128> is that easiest?
1774 2011-02-20 20:04:15 <ArtForz> easiest is probably to set gnoe to autologin
1775 2011-02-20 20:04:17 <ArtForz> *gnome
1776 2011-02-20 20:04:18 <`Jaka> Last Price: 0.8313High:0.949Low: 0.83Volume: 9846
1777 2011-02-20 20:04:30 <`Jaka> lol @ market
1778 2011-02-20 20:04:37 <bk128> ok
1779 2011-02-20 20:05:26 <ArtForz> `Jaka: whats so funny about it?
1780 2011-02-20 20:05:47 <`Jaka> still not regaining confidence
1781 2011-02-20 20:05:59 <bk128> think diablo's would be the fastest for this?
1782 2011-02-20 20:06:11 <ArtForz> generally, yes
1783 2011-02-20 20:06:20 <ArtForz> but m0s isnt too bad either nowadays
1784 2011-02-20 20:07:40 <ArtForz> seems they're pretty much equal, +-1% or so depending on finding best parameters, system config and phase of the moon ;)
1785 2011-02-20 20:09:05 <devrandom> ArtForz - memory can be optimized in a full custom?  seems like you can't really compete against commodity DDR3
1786 2011-02-20 20:09:33 <ArtForz> on size? no. on speed? trivial.
1787 2011-02-20 20:10:44 <devrandom> on $/H and H/w...
1788 2011-02-20 20:10:48 <devrandom> size determines $/H
1789 2011-02-20 20:10:55 <bk128> ArtForz: when you ordered all your 5970's did you sign up as a reseller?
1790 2011-02-20 20:11:03 <devrandom> more or less
1791 2011-02-20 20:11:19 <devrandom> not sure about H/w
1792 2011-02-20 20:12:22 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure most decent ASIC houses have DDR3 mem controllers in their standard IP library
1793 2011-02-20 20:13:57 <devrandom> sure
1794 2011-02-20 20:14:07 <luke-jr> jgarzik: the fact that not a single major free git web UI supports diffing two trees like you want, must mean the CLI is good enough for most people
1795 2011-02-20 20:14:19 <ArtForz> which will again beat a PC by a factor of 20 or more
1796 2011-02-20 20:14:53 <devrandom> but you'll have to have the DDR3 in the final solution, which will reduce the ASIC density
1797 2011-02-20 20:14:55 <bk128> when you got your chips made, did you just give them HDL files?
1798 2011-02-20 20:14:56 <ArtForz> CPU memory controllers generally dont do too well on random access with really small transfer sizes
1799 2011-02-20 20:14:58 <devrandom> but maybe not enough
1800 2011-02-20 20:15:23 <devrandom> right, it might only help by a factor of 2
1801 2011-02-20 20:15:47 <devrandom> I'm thinking of GPU local memory
1802 2011-02-20 20:16:12 <devrandom> (or is it "global memory"?)
1803 2011-02-20 20:16:14 <ArtForz> so if you do random byte accesses, you create something with a few dozen 8-bit mem controllers instead of 2 or 4 64-bit ones
1804 2011-02-20 20:16:43 <devrandom> I wonder what's the die % on the GPU for the on-chip memory
1805 2011-02-20 20:16:56 <ArtForz> iirc quite a bit nowadays
1806 2011-02-20 20:18:05 <ArtForz> not as crazy as CPUs with 75% of the chip being caches, more like 20%
1807 2011-02-20 20:18:47 <devrandom> if, for the sake of argument, the memory is 50% of the die, and it's fully utilized by the proof-of-work, then an ASIC would never be more than 2x smaller
1808 2011-02-20 20:19:03 <ArtForz> in theory, yes
1809 2011-02-20 20:19:08 <devrandom> if it's only 20%, then the optimization limit would be 5x
1810 2011-02-20 20:22:28 <devrandom> hm... 75% on a cpu...  so a cache heavy proof-of-work would get almost not benefit from a full custom and bring CPUs back to mining
1811 2011-02-20 20:23:05 <devrandom> that would seem like a large win for network diversity
1812 2011-02-20 20:23:25 <ArtForz> except most cache on CPUs is pretty slow
1813 2011-02-20 20:23:48 <ArtForz> usually because it's one huge array of L3 shared by all cores
1814 2011-02-20 20:24:00 <ArtForz> with 14clock+ latencies
1815 2011-02-20 20:24:03 mmarker has joined
1816 2011-02-20 20:24:35 <mmarker> Damn, and I was close with that public key.
1817 2011-02-20 20:25:13 pwrgeek has quit ()
1818 2011-02-20 20:25:14 <Jeroenz0r> What is a normal amount of confirmations?
1819 2011-02-20 20:25:17 <devrandom> I see
1820 2011-02-20 20:25:27 <TheKid> Jeroenz0r: what do you mean
1821 2011-02-20 20:25:29 <TheKid> normal for what?
1822 2011-02-20 20:25:42 <BlueMatt> jeronz0r you just keep getting more confirmations for each block
1823 2011-02-20 20:25:43 <Jeroenz0r> Status: 41 confirmations
1824 2011-02-20 20:25:53 <gwillen> Jeroenz0r: it will keep going up forever
1825 2011-02-20 20:25:54 <BlueMatt> You can spend after 6, thereafter it doesnt matter
1826 2011-02-20 20:25:59 <Jeroenz0r> When will htis maddnes stop :P
1827 2011-02-20 20:26:16 <mmarker> Heh
1828 2011-02-20 20:26:21 <mmagic> ;;bc,stats
1829 2011-02-20 20:26:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109357 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1522 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47669.75326592
1830 2011-02-20 20:26:27 <Jeroenz0r> BlueMatt; notice me a donation adress of you :P
1831 2011-02-20 20:26:55 <TheKid> you can spend after 1
1832 2011-02-20 20:27:09 <Jeroenz0r> 6? or 1?
1833 2011-02-20 20:27:12 <BlueMatt> excuse me, spend after 1, marked "confirmed" after 6
1834 2011-02-20 20:27:14 <TheKid> 1
1835 2011-02-20 20:27:24 <Jeroenz0r> i have 41. i want to send something :D
1836 2011-02-20 20:27:33 <nanotube> Jeroenz0r: basically, the more confs there are, the less likely a doublespend will occur. that said, 1 is minimum to send
1837 2011-02-20 20:27:42 <Jeroenz0r> I have 0.54 BTC, so it won't be much
1838 2011-02-20 20:27:52 <nanotube> official client tries to be a little careful, so marks 6 as 'confirmed'
1839 2011-02-20 20:27:58 <xelister> diff... 36k next diff.... 47k ... shit shit fuck fuckitty fuck fuck
1840 2011-02-20 20:28:08 <TheKid> xelister: it'll be okay, I promise
1841 2011-02-20 20:28:09 <Jeroenz0r> nice
1842 2011-02-20 20:28:17 <presence> ;;bc,calc 770000
1843 2011-02-20 20:28:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 770000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes, and 28 seconds
1844 2011-02-20 20:28:19 <nanotube> xelister: haha
1845 2011-02-20 20:28:21 <presence> ugh
1846 2011-02-20 20:28:23 <presence> blows goats
1847 2011-02-20 20:28:31 <xelister> ;;bc,cals 177000
1848 2011-02-20 20:28:32 <gribble> Error: "bc,cals" is not a valid command.
1849 2011-02-20 20:28:34 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 177000
1850 2011-02-20 20:28:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 177000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1 week, 3 days, 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 11 seconds
1851 2011-02-20 20:28:39 <xelister> :<
1852 2011-02-20 20:28:41 <nanotube> ;;bc,calcd 770000 47669.75326592
1853 2011-02-20 20:28:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 770000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 47669.75326592, is 3 days, 1 hour, 51 minutes, and 36 seconds
1854 2011-02-20 20:28:42 <xelister> ;;bc,calc WHY GOD WHY
1855 2011-02-20 20:28:43 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1856 2011-02-20 20:28:43 <nanotube> presence: --^
1857 2011-02-20 20:28:45 <nanotube> heh
1858 2011-02-20 20:28:53 <tcatm> xelister: GPUs already running?
1859 2011-02-20 20:29:00 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 4000
1860 2011-02-20 20:29:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1 year, 12 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 35 minutes, and 5 seconds
1861 2011-02-20 20:29:05 <xelister> hehe poor cpu users
1862 2011-02-20 20:29:08 <TheKid> xelister: what are you hashing with
1863 2011-02-20 20:29:14 <xelister> 5770
1864 2011-02-20 20:29:18 <presence> is that the next ratchet?
1865 2011-02-20 20:29:28 <presence> because soon its going to be not worth mining
1866 2011-02-20 20:29:42 <presence> just sell all the shares and go start another alternative virtual currency
1867 2011-02-20 20:29:44 <TheKid> not for people without many efficient cards anyway
1868 2011-02-20 20:29:45 <nanotube> presence: yep, see the ,,bc,stats for next estimate.
1869 2011-02-20 20:29:46 <BlueMatt> which is good for value
1870 2011-02-20 20:29:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109357 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1522 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47669.75326592
1871 2011-02-20 20:30:02 <nanotube> TheKid: maybe you have a buyer for your 5970 ;)
1872 2011-02-20 20:30:26 <mmarker> Time to build that dedicated silicon...
1873 2011-02-20 20:30:59 <mmarker> Grr
1874 2011-02-20 20:31:09 <mmarker> C++...stop trying to outsmart me!
1875 2011-02-20 20:31:43 <presence> take it from me, there are cameras in paris, some papers are missing, exposures automatic
1876 2011-02-20 20:36:04 <`Jaka> >he codes in c++
1877 2011-02-20 20:36:11 <`Jaka> java master rae
1878 2011-02-20 20:36:13 <`Jaka> java master race
1879 2011-02-20 20:38:01 <nanotube> mmarker: still no email from you btw
1880 2011-02-20 20:38:15 <`Jaka> ikanakucha sonna no wakatteru kimi ga yasashii koto mo shitteru
1881 2011-02-20 20:38:25 <`Jaka> dakara kono te wo hanashiteyo deatte yokatta kimi ga suki
1882 2011-02-20 20:38:36 <`Jaka> arigatou sayonara hitokoto ga ienai ima dake de iii watashi no yuuki wo
1883 2011-02-20 20:40:07 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1884 2011-02-20 20:40:18 <mmarker> nanotube: That's odd.
1885 2011-02-20 20:40:26 <nanotube> `Jaka: nice japanese there. :)
1886 2011-02-20 20:40:29 <mmarker> I did send something. Hope it was to the right address.
1887 2011-02-20 20:41:14 <mmarker> hmm, first.last@gmail?
1888 2011-02-20 20:42:54 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1889 2011-02-20 20:43:41 Guest18574 is now known as sneak
1890 2011-02-20 20:43:46 sneak has quit (Changing host)
1891 2011-02-20 20:43:46 sneak has joined
1892 2011-02-20 20:43:54 <sneak> hi
1893 2011-02-20 20:44:02 <TheKid> hi
1894 2011-02-20 20:44:03 <TheKid> what's up
1895 2011-02-20 20:44:06 <sneak> not a lot
1896 2011-02-20 20:46:21 <cosurgi> we know what's down: price.
1897 2011-02-20 20:47:17 <mmarker> Grr
1898 2011-02-20 20:47:29 <cosurgi> also Blitzboom pwned a scammer.
1899 2011-02-20 20:47:29 <mmarker> Stupid Crypto++, give me a Integer to String
1900 2011-02-20 20:47:52 <cosurgi> boost::lexical_cast<int>(std:;string)
1901 2011-02-20 20:48:08 <cosurgi> oh, you want opposite.
1902 2011-02-20 20:48:09 <BlueMatt> cosurgi: heard about that?
1903 2011-02-20 20:48:14 <mmarker> Yea, Hex string, actually
1904 2011-02-20 20:48:18 <mmarker> I have a decimal
1905 2011-02-20 20:48:21 <mmarker> I think
1906 2011-02-20 20:48:39 <cosurgi> integer to hex string?
1907 2011-02-20 20:49:07 <cosurgi> << std::hex << your_int; // or sth like that
1908 2011-02-20 20:49:13 <cosurgi> BlueMatt: I've read backlog :)
1909 2011-02-20 20:49:37 <mmarker> Yea, Just found it
1910 2011-02-20 20:49:48 <BlueMatt> cosurgi: scammer (aka Tolsi) got away w/ 30
1911 2011-02-20 20:49:54 <mmarker> Let's see if my late private key to public key transmogrifier works.
1912 2011-02-20 20:49:57 <ArtForz> "the case of the incompetent scammer"
1913 2011-02-20 20:50:07 <BlueMatt> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3628.0
1914 2011-02-20 20:50:16 <BlueMatt> a better writeup (shamless self promotion)
1915 2011-02-20 20:50:22 <ArtForz> yea
1916 2011-02-20 20:50:24 <ArtForz> read that
1917 2011-02-20 20:51:29 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1918 2011-02-20 20:51:34 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
1919 2011-02-20 20:51:34 Jeroenz0r has joined
1920 2011-02-20 20:51:46 molecular has quit (zapp!~molecular@e176120010.adsl.alicedsl.de|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1921 2011-02-20 20:52:40 molecular has joined
1922 2011-02-20 20:56:37 <mmarker> Damn. My code works.
1923 2011-02-20 20:56:53 <BlueMatt> what a shame
1924 2011-02-20 20:56:58 Syke has joined
1925 2011-02-20 20:58:02 <cosurgi> nice writeup
1926 2011-02-20 20:58:10 <riush> hm, is it possible to build the bitcoin client on ARM architecture?
1927 2011-02-20 20:58:41 <BlueMatt> cosurgi: thanks
1928 2011-02-20 20:58:46 <ArtForz> hmmm, as long as it's running in little endian mode it should work.
1929 2011-02-20 20:59:05 <mmarker> Uhh
1930 2011-02-20 20:59:08 <mmarker> >.>
1931 2011-02-20 20:59:09 <mmarker> <.<
1932 2011-02-20 20:59:14 <mmarker> NO, NOT AT ALL
1933 2011-02-20 20:59:30 * mmarker hides his Beagleboard-xM
1934 2011-02-20 21:00:11 * mmarker shoves the Kirkwood further behind the cabinet as well.
1935 2011-02-20 21:00:12 <dsg> n
1936 2011-02-20 21:00:27 <riush> ok thanks. i'll give it a try but am not too optimistic ;)
1937 2011-02-20 21:00:28 <mmarker> riush: Short answer. Yes. It works
1938 2011-02-20 21:00:37 <mmarker> Compiled out of the box on the xM
1939 2011-02-20 21:00:41 <mmarker> as the Kirkwood.
1940 2011-02-20 21:00:47 <mmarker> Just mining with them... slow.
1941 2011-02-20 21:00:57 <ArtForz> you don't say... ;)
1942 2011-02-20 21:01:00 <cosurgi> later I'll try that on pandora
1943 2011-02-20 21:01:14 <mmarker> ArtForz: It's slow, but it runs 24/7 w/o a fan
1944 2011-02-20 21:01:25 <riush> lol. i had already running the cpuminer on my openmoko phone - 60 khash/s :)
1945 2011-02-20 21:01:32 <ArtForz> ... so does a rock
1946 2011-02-20 21:01:40 <mmarker> Ok, the OMAP3 at 800MHz can do ~250ish
1947 2011-02-20 21:01:56 <ArtForz> thats actually not THAT bad
1948 2011-02-20 21:01:56 <mmarker> Lemme pull up some stats:
1949 2011-02-20 21:02:06 <ArtForz> iirc a atom isn't much faster
1950 2011-02-20 21:02:21 <mmarker> ArtForz: that's just the Linux C code. I haven't tried to optimize like the 4way code
1951 2011-02-20 21:02:34 <mmarker> NEON on the A8 may be able to do better.
1952 2011-02-20 21:03:30 <ArtForz> you need fast rotates, boolean ops and 32-bit integer adds
1953 2011-02-20 21:03:47 <mmarker> ArtForz: all of which ARM has IIRC
1954 2011-02-20 21:04:08 <ArtForz> iirc x86 SSE is a bit lacking on the rotate part
1955 2011-02-20 21:04:59 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1956 2011-02-20 21:05:46 molecular has joined
1957 2011-02-20 21:05:53 <ArtForz> iirc you can do something like a shl, shr, or sequence, but thats still 3 ops to do what a ati 5xxx does in 1
1958 2011-02-20 21:06:03 <mmarker> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0204h/Bcfjicfj.html
1959 2011-02-20 21:06:29 <ArtForz> and of course having a bitwise ((a and b) or ((not a) and c)) also helps
1960 2011-02-20 21:07:52 bonsaikitten is now known as AmazingPudding
1961 2011-02-20 21:07:56 <mmarker> Hmm
1962 2011-02-20 21:08:32 <mmarker> Dont think ARM has that, but you can do a VMOV that will copy a register contents and do a NOT during the move
1963 2011-02-20 21:08:52 <mmarker> so the (not A) bit is one instruction
1964 2011-02-20 21:09:00 <ArtForz> yeah
1965 2011-02-20 21:09:13 <ArtForz> and you have native NAND and NOR
1966 2011-02-20 21:09:19 <mmarker> Yup
1967 2011-02-20 21:09:30 <mmarker> Probably should get decent performance.
1968 2011-02-20 21:09:38 <mmarker> "should"
1969 2011-02-20 21:09:45 <ArtForz> VBSL (Bitwise Select) selects each bit for the destination from the first operand if the corresponding bit of the destination is 1, or from the second operand if the corresponding bit of the destination is 0.
1970 2011-02-20 21:09:48 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1971 2011-02-20 21:10:42 <ArtForz> == ((a and b)) or ((not a) and c)
1972 2011-02-20 21:10:50 <mmarker> Heh.
1973 2011-02-20 21:11:00 <mmarker> Well then, I guess some arm asm is in my near future
1974 2011-02-20 21:11:33 <mmarker> Need to do some pencil and paper exercise with this
1975 2011-02-20 21:12:12 <BlueMatt> would it really be worth it?
1976 2011-02-20 21:12:17 <ArtForz> doesnt look like we have a 1-cycle rotate though
1977 2011-02-20 21:12:33 <ArtForz> saves about 10% instructions
1978 2011-02-20 21:12:36 <mmarker> ok, AFK. Inlaws
1979 2011-02-20 21:18:51 RichardG has joined
1980 2011-02-20 21:20:15 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1981 2011-02-20 21:36:11 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1982 2011-02-20 21:36:28 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1983 2011-02-20 21:37:35 T_X has joined
1984 2011-02-20 21:37:36 T_X has quit (Changing host)
1985 2011-02-20 21:37:36 T_X has joined
1986 2011-02-20 21:38:06 AmazingPudding is now known as bonsaikitten
1987 2011-02-20 21:40:19 <devrandom> tcatm ArtForz - I understand better now what you were saying earlier
1988 2011-02-20 21:41:03 <devrandom> you can attach several DDR3 chips on multiple channels to a hw optimized solution, and it wouldn't increase solution cost that much
1989 2011-02-20 21:41:27 genjix has quit (Changing host)
1990 2011-02-20 21:41:27 genjix has joined
1991 2011-02-20 21:41:27 * xelister eats bonsai pudding... mmm amazing kitty flavour
1992 2011-02-20 21:42:31 * xelister sticks spoon into bonsaikitten
1993 2011-02-20 21:43:19 <bonsaikitten> xelister: is no funny!
1994 2011-02-20 21:52:33 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1995 2011-02-20 21:53:40 <bk128> ArtForz: been a while.  to compile the stream sdk once I untar and move it to /opt, do I just do a make and make install?  just installed build-essential
1996 2011-02-20 21:55:53 <ArtForz> no need
1997 2011-02-20 21:55:57 <bk128> I'm assuming I have to compile it, just tried to run diablo and got the error http://pastebin.com/b5KEHjWn
1998 2011-02-20 21:55:57 <bk128> oh
1999 2011-02-20 21:56:38 sabalaba has joined
2000 2011-02-20 21:57:40 <bk128> do I need to export a few paths then?
2001 2011-02-20 21:57:57 <bk128> Exception in thread "main" org.lwjgl.LWJGLException: Could not locate OpenCL library.
2002 2011-02-20 21:58:12 <ArtForz> extract icd-registration.tgz as root in / (it puts some stuff in /etc/OpenCL/...), extract sdk somewhere, export STREAMSDKROOT or whatever for compiling OCL apps, add path_to_sdk/lib/x86_64/ to LD_LIBRARY_PATH (or just symlink libOpenCL.so and libatiocl[32|64].so from some standard lib dir)
2003 2011-02-20 21:59:39 <bk128> did that $ ls /etc/OpenCL/vendors/    outputs atiocl32.icd  atiocl64.icd
2004 2011-02-20 21:59:44 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2005 2011-02-20 21:59:52 <ArtForz> yep
2006 2011-02-20 22:00:16 BlueMatt has joined
2007 2011-02-20 22:00:38 <ArtForz> I generally just symlink libOpenCL.so and libatiocl64.so from /usr/local/lib/ and rerun ldconfig
2008 2011-02-20 22:01:14 <bk128> ok.  trying to figure out the commands to do that :)
2009 2011-02-20 22:01:57 <BlueMatt> is there a branch for bitcoin-js-remote that simply combines all the accounts into one?
2010 2011-02-20 22:02:10 <ArtForz> errr... something like ln -s /path/to/sdk/lib/x86_64/libOpenCL.so /usr/local/lib/libOpenCL.so
2011 2011-02-20 22:02:15 <mmarker> hmm
2012 2011-02-20 22:02:18 <bk128> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
2013 2011-02-20 22:02:18 <ArtForz> same thing for libatiocl64.so
2014 2011-02-20 22:02:23 <ArtForz> yep
2015 2011-02-20 22:02:27 <ArtForz> that should do the trick
2016 2011-02-20 22:04:02 Necr0s has joined
2017 2011-02-20 22:05:32 <Necr0s> Can y'all help me to understand why the 50btc my miner generated this morning isn't showing up in my wallet?
2018 2011-02-20 22:05:38 <Necr0s> http://pastebin.com/NYkwgqJW
2019 2011-02-20 22:06:07 <Necr0s> The top shows a proof-of-work sumbitted by the miner that shows up in the client as it should.
2020 2011-02-20 22:06:20 <Necr0s> The second one, from this morning, doesn't show in the client gui at all.
2021 2011-02-20 22:06:35 <Necr0s> Although this log is from that client, where it shows receipt.
2022 2011-02-20 22:06:59 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000416b33916b2f5328499ba6a80108be0c999d79d0be1bd239c230
2023 2011-02-20 22:07:23 <ArtForz> your block didnt make it = you created a fork block
2024 2011-02-20 22:07:48 <BlueMatt> your block was made just after the other one, you lost the race, but just by a fraction :(
2025 2011-02-20 22:08:07 <mmarker> ArtForz: Yea, looks like NEON doesn't have a rotate right in its ISA, but the standard ARM insns, it does.
2026 2011-02-20 22:08:08 <Necr0s> hmm.  I see.
2027 2011-02-20 22:08:14 <Necr0s> Is that a common occurence?
2028 2011-02-20 22:08:18 <ArtForz> actually looks by quite a offset
2029 2011-02-20 22:08:28 <ArtForz> Time?: 2011-02-20 15:07:37
2030 2011-02-20 22:08:39 <BlueMatt> Not particularly but it happens from time to time
2031 2011-02-20 22:08:41 <ArtForz> 02/20/2011 15:23 generated 50.00
2032 2011-02-20 22:08:58 <BlueMatt> oh yea that is a big offset
2033 2011-02-20 22:08:58 <Necr0s> How did you know to look there in blockexplorer?
2034 2011-02-20 22:09:16 <ArtForz> SetBestChain: new best=000000000000640be61e  height=109309  work=1287818041410726862
2035 2011-02-20 22:09:26 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/b/109309
2036 2011-02-20 22:09:40 <ArtForz> just go by block height ;)
2037 2011-02-20 22:09:49 <Necr0s> I see.  thx.
2038 2011-02-20 22:12:03 <Necr0s> Do I see a 50BTC in that block from generation.  How can correlate that to data in my log?
2039 2011-02-20 22:12:08 <Necr0s> To show that it's the same work.
2040 2011-02-20 22:12:17 <nanotube> mm, tx volume is definitely up. a block with only 1 tx in it is rare these days.
2041 2011-02-20 22:12:32 <ArtForz> nanotube: pools
2042 2011-02-20 22:13:02 <nanotube> yea but there's only one pool. :)
2043 2011-02-20 22:13:05 <ArtForz> splitting each block gen into dozens of 0.xx transactions tends to generate... dozens of 0.xx transactions per block
2044 2011-02-20 22:13:39 <ArtForz> well, one pool thats about 20% of total network
2045 2011-02-20 22:13:57 <nanotube> also, i actually don't see a whole lot of tiny tx
2046 2011-02-20 22:14:12 <nanotube> looks like majority are of decent size
2047 2011-02-20 22:14:43 <BlueMatt> when calculating which block chain to use, does the client ignore chains w/ invalid blocks, or how are they calculated?
2048 2011-02-20 22:14:55 <ArtForz> look at the smaller of the outputs ;)
2049 2011-02-20 22:15:13 <nanotube> ArtForz: yes i did. admittedly, i only checked like a couple of blocks. :)
2050 2011-02-20 22:15:23 <nanotube> but it looked like most tx didn't contain a <1 output
2051 2011-02-20 22:15:35 <ArtForz> looks like about 1 btc avg
2052 2011-02-20 22:15:45 <TD> BlueMatt: it picks the one with the greatest cumulative work
2053 2011-02-20 22:15:47 <nanotube> mmm bad sample on my part, then heh
2054 2011-02-20 22:15:53 <ArtForz> thats still about 50 tx per slush-pool-mined block
2055 2011-02-20 22:16:19 <ArtForz> and if pool finds 20% of blocks... thats 10tx/block avg just from pool
2056 2011-02-20 22:16:26 <bk128> ArtForz: didn't work after the exporting the path so I tried making links to libatiocl64.so and libOpenCL.so to /usr/local/lib and it's still not working.
2057 2011-02-20 22:16:39 <ArtForz> well, what is it saying?
2058 2011-02-20 22:16:41 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
2059 2011-02-20 22:16:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109377 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1502 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 23 hours, 55 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48142.64628076
2060 2011-02-20 22:16:54 <ArtForz> and did you rerun ldconfig as root after adding those symlinks?
2061 2011-02-20 22:17:04 <bk128> still can't locate opencl library
2062 2011-02-20 22:17:06 <nanotube> ArtForz: mmm guess so. :)
2063 2011-02-20 22:17:08 <BlueMatt> TD: so if there is a block which is invalid (ie tx from account which has no balance), but is part of the chain w/ the greatest cumulative work, that chain (including the bad block) is accepted?
2064 2011-02-20 22:17:13 <bk128> nope.  where's that?
2065 2011-02-20 22:17:18 <TD> no
2066 2011-02-20 22:17:20 <nanotube> BlueMatt: no invalid blocks are... invalid. :)
2067 2011-02-20 22:17:23 <TD> blocks are verified
2068 2011-02-20 22:17:33 <BlueMatt> Ok so I thought
2069 2011-02-20 22:17:37 <ArtForz> yep, block containing invalid tx simply gets ignored
2070 2011-02-20 22:17:40 <TD> if a node is fed such a chain, it will reject the invalid block and any that are linked to it
2071 2011-02-20 22:17:44 <ArtForz> yep
2072 2011-02-20 22:17:51 <BlueMatt> ok, thought so
2073 2011-02-20 22:18:07 <TD> well, that's how the official software works
2074 2011-02-20 22:18:20 <TD> my implementation will happily accept such a chain :-)
2075 2011-02-20 22:18:25 <bk128> ArtForz: oh, just sudo ldconfig >_< working now.  but I think it's only using one gpu
2076 2011-02-20 22:18:38 <BlueMatt> TD well lets hope no one uses your implementation
2077 2011-02-20 22:18:47 <TD> but that's because it's designed for mobile phones so it can't really afford to verify every transaction. it takes the fact that the block is of the right difficulty as "proof" that the block is valid
2078 2011-02-20 22:18:49 <BlueMatt> ;)
2079 2011-02-20 22:18:59 <bk128> and it's doing the same thing as when I ran it on my windows box.  only getting 13.1 khash/sec
2080 2011-02-20 22:19:02 <BlueMatt> ooo, please dont do that
2081 2011-02-20 22:19:14 <BlueMatt> just use an rpc client, or connect to a server which can validate blocks
2082 2011-02-20 22:19:30 Lachesis has joined
2083 2011-02-20 22:19:30 <BlueMatt> clients which dont validate could potentially be very bad
2084 2011-02-20 22:19:50 <mmarker> and just sitting on the p2p network equals battery life pain
2085 2011-02-20 22:19:55 <mmarker> Ok, store time
2086 2011-02-20 22:20:00 mmarker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2087 2011-02-20 22:20:08 <ArtForz> bk128: m0s or diablos?
2088 2011-02-20 22:20:13 <BlueMatt> thus, its better to not do a full network implementation on a phone
2089 2011-02-20 22:20:14 <TD> it's not as bad as it sounds. you could produce an invalid block and *if* i connect directly to your node, you could make me believe in it temporarily as long as you have the ability to keep up with the block chain
2090 2011-02-20 22:20:16 <bk128> Diablo
2091 2011-02-20 22:20:18 <TD> however
2092 2011-02-20 22:20:19 <BlueMatt> use rpc its just better that way
2093 2011-02-20 22:20:34 <TD> that requires a LOT of hash power these days and is only going up
2094 2011-02-20 22:20:43 <TD> the moment you stop investing in that, the main chain will overtake you and the client will switch
2095 2011-02-20 22:20:47 <TD> and notice the transactions were bad
2096 2011-02-20 22:20:47 <ArtForz> export DISPLAY=:0
2097 2011-02-20 22:20:58 <TD> what's more i have to connect directly to your node. the network won't propagate invalid transactions.
2098 2011-02-20 22:21:13 <TD> so you can only make me do that if you control the phones internet connection
2099 2011-02-20 22:21:16 <BlueMatt> the problem is a p2p network on a phone creates large network usage (mostly the number of connections == battery life problems) plus the fact that the radios in the phone use quite a bit of battery
2100 2011-02-20 22:21:27 <TD> obviously you don't run the full p2p network on a phone
2101 2011-02-20 22:21:39 dirtyfilthy has joined
2102 2011-02-20 22:21:41 <Lachesis> The generally proposed solution for phones is to run your wallet elsewhere
2103 2011-02-20 22:21:42 <TD> you connect to one of a small set of well known nodes when you want to send/receive transactions, or every so often to catch up
2104 2011-02-20 22:21:45 <Lachesis> and access it via the network
2105 2011-02-20 22:22:00 <TD> eg when the phone is plugged in at night it can download the block chain, or wake up every few hours to catch up
2106 2011-02-20 22:22:04 <Lachesis> rather than try to tackle the storage, computation, and network requirements of running the whole client
2107 2011-02-20 22:22:07 <TD> that's not a big hit these days. especially on wifi.
2108 2011-02-20 22:22:21 <TD> no, you really want to have a true mobile client because modern smartphones are a lot more secure than PCs
2109 2011-02-20 22:22:23 <BlueMatt> ok then also, how do you sync a wallet?
2110 2011-02-20 22:22:33 <Lachesis> TD, how are they more secure than PCs?
2111 2011-02-20 22:22:34 <TD> you mean, from a desktop node?
2112 2011-02-20 22:22:34 <BlueMatt> ie if I add a new address to my computer, how do i get it to my phone
2113 2011-02-20 22:22:40 <Lachesis> also, why would i want to run it on a desktop?
2114 2011-02-20 22:22:43 <TD> you don't. it has its own wallet, and so its own addresses.
2115 2011-02-20 22:22:46 <Lachesis> i was imagining a cloud service or something similar
2116 2011-02-20 22:22:49 <bk128> ArtForz: any chance I exported a path wrong?  ./CLInfo used to list my gpu's but now it doesn't
2117 2011-02-20 22:22:56 <TD> if you have some coins on your desktop and want to keep them on your phone instead, just send them as a normal transaction
2118 2011-02-20 22:22:59 <BlueMatt> So I have a separate wallet on my phone?
2119 2011-02-20 22:23:01 <TD> yes
2120 2011-02-20 22:23:05 <BlueMatt> ...ok
2121 2011-02-20 22:23:08 <Lachesis> TD, what's the advantage of running the full client?
2122 2011-02-20 22:23:18 <Lachesis> rather than just running a front-end to a remote bitcoind
2123 2011-02-20 22:23:20 <BlueMatt> So, whats the advantage of this over rpc
2124 2011-02-20 22:23:25 <Lachesis> ^^ yeah that
2125 2011-02-20 22:23:29 <ArtForz> bk128: possibly
2126 2011-02-20 22:23:37 <bk128> or would having both the path and library links mess it up? $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
2127 2011-02-20 22:23:37 <bk128> -bash: /opt/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:: No such file or directory
2128 2011-02-20 22:23:45 <TD> is your brother/sister/dog going to run a server on their PC 24/7 and open up the relevant NAT ports, set up dynamic dns etc ? no
2129 2011-02-20 22:23:59 <TD> will they install an app from the android market or ios app store? quite possibly yes
2130 2011-02-20 22:24:00 <BlueMatt> what about an online wallet service?
2131 2011-02-20 22:24:02 <Lachesis> TD, no, I was imagining that such a service would be provided by webwallets and the like
2132 2011-02-20 22:24:10 <TD> then you have to trust the wallet provider
2133 2011-02-20 22:24:15 <Lachesis> TD, yeah, of course.
2134 2011-02-20 22:24:18 <TD> which one do you pick?
2135 2011-02-20 22:24:24 <BlueMatt> the wallet provider
2136 2011-02-20 22:24:24 <Lachesis> personally, i'd run my own
2137 2011-02-20 22:24:31 <ArtForz> imo keeping wallet local sounds like a good idea
2138 2011-02-20 22:24:33 <BlueMatt> its simpler for the average user
2139 2011-02-20 22:24:33 <Lachesis> but if i were my grandmother, i'd pick the biggest, best audited one
2140 2011-02-20 22:24:45 <BlueMatt> then transferring money to my phone
2141 2011-02-20 22:24:52 <TD> right now that'd be MyBitcoin, and I don't think any such providers are audited. MyBitcoin is registered in the west indies.
2142 2011-02-20 22:24:57 <BlueMatt> "oh shit I forgot to transfer money to my phone, I cant buy my coffee"
2143 2011-02-20 22:25:08 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, just like wallets in real life! :)
2144 2011-02-20 22:25:11 <TD> BlueMatt: keep all your coins on your phone. they can back up encrypted copies
2145 2011-02-20 22:25:17 <Lachesis> there's no reason we couldn't do both
2146 2011-02-20 22:25:19 <Lachesis> TD, bad idea
2147 2011-02-20 22:25:20 <BlueMatt> but wallets in real life can have credit cards
2148 2011-02-20 22:25:27 <TD> so if you lose the phone you can get the coins back, assuming you wrote down the encryption key
2149 2011-02-20 22:25:31 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, so you don't spend bitcoins that day
2150 2011-02-20 22:25:33 <BlueMatt> phones are extremley insecure
2151 2011-02-20 22:25:34 <TD> (or printed it, etc)
2152 2011-02-20 22:25:40 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, you just use your CC
2153 2011-02-20 22:25:40 <TD> insecure compared to what?
2154 2011-02-20 22:25:49 <BlueMatt> a pc
2155 2011-02-20 22:25:49 <Lachesis> which may well let you pay in Bitcoin some day
2156 2011-02-20 22:26:03 <BlueMatt> see: password stealing on iphone youtube video a couple weeks ago
2157 2011-02-20 22:26:05 <TD> right. wake me up when we have million+ botnets of mobile phones.
2158 2011-02-20 22:26:05 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, it depends, of course
2159 2011-02-20 22:26:10 <TD> that are stealing passwords
2160 2011-02-20 22:26:16 <BlueMatt> step 1 jailbreak, step 2, copy files to computer
2161 2011-02-20 22:26:22 Syke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2162 2011-02-20 22:26:25 <Lachesis> TD, that's not fair - phones are more secure against that kind of exloit
2163 2011-02-20 22:26:28 <Lachesis> exploit
2164 2011-02-20 22:26:34 <Lachesis> but less secure against a targeted attack
2165 2011-02-20 22:26:41 <TD> android, at least, keeps app data private no matter what you install on the phone
2166 2011-02-20 22:26:44 <TD> unless there is a local root exploit
2167 2011-02-20 22:26:55 <BlueMatt> TD which a jailbreak/root is
2168 2011-02-20 22:27:03 <TD> so don't jailbreak your phone?
2169 2011-02-20 22:27:04 <BlueMatt> if I steal your phone, I have your wallet
2170 2011-02-20 22:27:09 <TD> lock the screen
2171 2011-02-20 22:27:14 <Lachesis> that's the biggest problem, above
2172 2011-02-20 22:27:14 <BlueMatt> I, who stole your phone, can jailbreak it for you
2173 2011-02-20 22:27:30 <BlueMatt> and then I have your wallet, or just transfer all your money to my account
2174 2011-02-20 22:27:45 <Lachesis> basically, security TODAY may not be any better at mybitcoin.com than on my pc
2175 2011-02-20 22:27:52 <Lachesis> but someday, Amazon and Paypal will have Bitcoin wallets
2176 2011-02-20 22:27:56 <Lachesis> and those will be more secure
2177 2011-02-20 22:28:01 <TD> so use a phone that doesn't suck? "jailbreaking" nexus one/nexus s wipes the phone
2178 2011-02-20 22:28:14 Lube has joined
2179 2011-02-20 22:28:23 <TD> besides, i know far more people who got viruses on their computers than got mugged
2180 2011-02-20 22:28:29 <BlueMatt> TD: its really not that simple, it does now, but it wouldnt be hard to write an exploit based on the root which steals data
2181 2011-02-20 22:28:52 <BlueMatt> the problem is the inconvinience of having a separate wallet on your pc + phone + no atms possible
2182 2011-02-20 22:28:59 <tcatm> Keep only a small amount of coins on the phone...
2183 2011-02-20 22:29:01 <TD> yes, phones can have remote root exploits, and mostly they get patched like on PC operating systems. the difference is you can't install software (on android) that just reads your wallet right off disk.
2184 2011-02-20 22:29:15 <Lachesis> TD, but if you ever plug your phone in, you're screwed
2185 2011-02-20 22:29:17 <TD> whereas that's the default mode for PCs
2186 2011-02-20 22:29:18 <TD> no
2187 2011-02-20 22:29:22 <BlueMatt> TD: if I take your phone off the table, I have your wallet
2188 2011-02-20 22:29:38 <BlueMatt> tcatm: and worry about always transferring enough to my phone?
2189 2011-02-20 22:29:38 <Lachesis> I'm far more worried about physical attacks than viruses
2190 2011-02-20 22:29:42 <TD> only if you know how to gain root access to it without wiping the device
2191 2011-02-20 22:29:43 <Lachesis> but then i live in a pretty bad part of town
2192 2011-02-20 22:29:52 <TD> like i said, this isn't true of all phones
2193 2011-02-20 22:29:55 <BlueMatt> TD: which wouldnt be hard
2194 2011-02-20 22:30:08 <BlueMatt> TD: name one which isnt rootable
2195 2011-02-20 22:30:09 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, depends on the phone
2196 2011-02-20 22:30:15 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I usually don't worry about transferring money to my real wallet.
2197 2011-02-20 22:30:16 <Lachesis> some are harder to get without wiping than others
2198 2011-02-20 22:30:20 <Lachesis> it's always possible, but not always worth it
2199 2011-02-20 22:30:22 <BlueMatt> remember each root is an exploit
2200 2011-02-20 22:30:24 <TD> like i said, Nexus S/Nexus One cannot be rooted without wiping the device.
2201 2011-02-20 22:30:28 <TD> which destroys the wallet.
2202 2011-02-20 22:30:34 <Lachesis> TD, why is that?
2203 2011-02-20 22:30:41 <TD> because they are "jailbreakable" out of the box
2204 2011-02-20 22:30:50 <TD> you can get root if you like
2205 2011-02-20 22:31:00 <Lachesis> there are no exploits for them like for Droid etc?
2206 2011-02-20 22:31:00 <TD> so nobody bothered to produce some kind of in-place jailbreak
2207 2011-02-20 22:31:13 <Lachesis> that's a little odd but k
2208 2011-02-20 22:31:16 <TD> there might be. i haven't heard of people doing in-place hacks to get root.
2209 2011-02-20 22:31:20 <BlueMatt> TD: but if your grandma/mom/etc had a wallet on their, I would write one
2210 2011-02-20 22:31:56 <TD> you say that, but to pull of that attack requires somebody who is both technically skilled AND willing to use violence to steal a wallet and then hope they don't get caught.
2211 2011-02-20 22:32:21 <TD> in practice, there are high tech criminals who try and rob people far away, and there are low tech criminals who whack grannie on the street, but the combination of both is rare
2212 2011-02-20 22:32:32 <BlueMatt> I write a in place jailbreak (for most phones, there already is one) and every script-kiddie has one
2213 2011-02-20 22:32:39 <BlueMatt> and who doesn't lose their phone from time to time
2214 2011-02-20 22:32:59 <BlueMatt> plus if the wallet is on the phone, you cant just clear the phone w/o losing the money anyway
2215 2011-02-20 22:33:09 <bk128> ArtForz: what does this mean? ./CLInfo |grep CL_DEVICE_TYPE_GPU
2216 2011-02-20 22:33:09 <bk128> No protocol specified
2217 2011-02-20 22:33:37 <ArtForz> did you export DISPLAY=:0 ?
2218 2011-02-20 22:33:40 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2219 2011-02-20 22:33:41 <BlueMatt> tcatm: is there a bitcoin-js-remote branch  which combines all accounts into one for the display?
2220 2011-02-20 22:34:20 <ArtForz> and... what's XAUTHORITY set to?
2221 2011-02-20 22:34:20 <TD> yes, if you can root the phone without wiping it you win. if you can do that, you can get access to the remote server where your wallet is anywa
2222 2011-02-20 22:34:22 <bk128> yeah. I did earlier and they were showing up earlier
2223 2011-02-20 22:34:35 <ArtForz> is that in a xterm or over ssh ?
2224 2011-02-20 22:34:40 <TD> a pure smartphone client is strictly more secure than any other mass market solution when you look at the most common attacks today
2225 2011-02-20 22:34:52 <Lachesis> TD i don't think it's _strictly_ more secure
2226 2011-02-20 22:34:55 <BlueMatt> TD: my point is you can for most phones, and for many it wouldnt be hard
2227 2011-02-20 22:35:03 <bk128> ArtForz: still using ssh
2228 2011-02-20 22:35:03 <tcatm> BlueMatt: not yet. I agree, switching from wxgui to RPC accounts is annoying.
2229 2011-02-20 22:35:10 <BlueMatt> its more secure from a virus, etc but...
2230 2011-02-20 22:35:14 <TD> sure
2231 2011-02-20 22:35:15 <Lachesis> a more secure system would be a well-patched dedicated server than ran a limited subset of RPC with some secure auth mathod
2232 2011-02-20 22:35:17 <Lachesis> method*
2233 2011-02-20 22:35:17 <ArtForz> what's XAUTHORITY set to?
2234 2011-02-20 22:35:23 <TD> Lachesis: and how do you access that server?
2235 2011-02-20 22:35:37 <Lachesis> TD, secure authentication over HTTPS
2236 2011-02-20 22:35:38 hwolf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2237 2011-02-20 22:35:40 <BlueMatt> rpc over https?
2238 2011-02-20 22:35:51 <BlueMatt> https would provide enough security
2239 2011-02-20 22:36:02 <TD> against what? people who are rooting your phone? nope ...
2240 2011-02-20 22:36:05 <BlueMatt> and an online wallet system would have a valid cert, so your mom doesnt have to worry
2241 2011-02-20 22:36:07 <Lachesis> why not?
2242 2011-02-20 22:36:11 <bk128> ArtForz: I'll switch to xterm.  how do I find XAUTHORITY?
2243 2011-02-20 22:36:17 <TD> you have to issue commands to your remote wallet at some point
2244 2011-02-20 22:36:26 <ArtForz> errr... not quite easy
2245 2011-02-20 22:36:28 <TD> you've been saying, phone wallets are not secure because they can be rooted
2246 2011-02-20 22:36:29 <BlueMatt> if someone steals your phone, atleast you could remote wipe it or change the password on the wallet site
2247 2011-02-20 22:36:41 <ArtForz> usually /var/run/gdm/something/.../whatever/random_string
2248 2011-02-20 22:36:43 <BlueMatt> if the wallet was on the phone you couldnt
2249 2011-02-20 22:36:45 <BlueMatt> you are sol
2250 2011-02-20 22:36:52 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, you could keep a backup of the wallet
2251 2011-02-20 22:36:54 <tcatm> A remote wallet could ask for special security token before sending a transaction.
2252 2011-02-20 22:36:56 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2253 2011-02-20 22:36:58 <Lachesis> then send all the coins to a new address
2254 2011-02-20 22:37:02 <ArtForz> at least for gdm3
2255 2011-02-20 22:37:04 <TD> iOS allows files to be encrypted using the lockscreen pin
2256 2011-02-20 22:37:07 <Lachesis> TD, are you talking about keyloggers?
2257 2011-02-20 22:37:13 <TD> so if you use a lockscreen, even if you root the phone you can't read the wallet
2258 2011-02-20 22:37:14 <ArtForz> for old gdm, it's ~/.Xauthority
2259 2011-02-20 22:37:38 <Lachesis> however, if they grab it out of my hand on the walk home, they're in
2260 2011-02-20 22:37:45 <TD> Lachesis: yes, you can't trust an account you access from a PC, it's quite possibly got a keylogger/form sniffer on it
2261 2011-02-20 22:37:54 <Lachesis> TD, there are security methods against that
2262 2011-02-20 22:38:06 <Lachesis> 2-factor auth, for example
2263 2011-02-20 22:38:14 <Lachesis> at the moment, I don't have enough BTC to protect like that
2264 2011-02-20 22:38:19 <Lachesis> my bank doesn't even have that
2265 2011-02-20 22:38:23 <TD> yes, if you have a second factor that you use to sign transactions it's not too bad.
2266 2011-02-20 22:38:29 <Lachesis> (of course, they can be help responsible and they can get my money back)
2267 2011-02-20 22:38:31 <TD> my bank does, fortunately. i'm very glad. it is, however, a PITA
2268 2011-02-20 22:38:36 <TD> not something you'll want to do to pay for your beers
2269 2011-02-20 22:38:42 <Lachesis> yeah
2270 2011-02-20 22:38:54 <Lachesis> honestly, i'd run my own web-wallet
2271 2011-02-20 22:38:58 <Lachesis> and limit it to only send XX coins
2272 2011-02-20 22:39:04 <BlueMatt> In any case I believe the disadvantages of a phone wallet are FAR outweighed by the advantages of a simple rpc and online wallet system
2273 2011-02-20 22:39:04 <Lachesis> without requiring more secure auth
2274 2011-02-20 22:39:33 <Lachesis> i agree with BlueMatt - the storage and network requirements are too high, and i see no _huge_ difference in security
2275 2011-02-20 22:39:37 <Lachesis> they're both "secure enough"
2276 2011-02-20 22:39:38 <ArtForz> like the advantage of having a not-a-bank incorporated in assfuckistan run with your money?
2277 2011-02-20 22:39:58 <BlueMatt> plus an online wallet system could offer other advantages, like instant transactions between other users, combining large transactions between wallet holders into one to help the network if it grows too fast
2278 2011-02-20 22:40:07 <xelister> assfuckistan heh
2279 2011-02-20 22:40:38 <TD> yes, there are advantages to using a 'cloud wallet' service and if a provider came along that i had a ton of confidence in, i'd use it. but as Lachesis notes even *large banks* don't get the basic crap right today
2280 2011-02-20 22:40:52 <TD> so it's gonna be a long time before you see web wallets that have 2-factor transaction signing and so on
2281 2011-02-20 22:41:06 <TD> today, at least, you'd have to trust mybitcoin or roll your own
2282 2011-02-20 22:41:06 <tcatm> Both, mobile phone wallets and webwallets could exist, and of course local wallet.dat with heavy encryption for savings.
2283 2011-02-20 22:41:15 <TD> i'm not sure at all i trust mybitcoin to be totally secure
2284 2011-02-20 22:41:25 <TD> tcatm: yep, they are not mutually exclusive
2285 2011-02-20 22:41:34 Syke has joined
2286 2011-02-20 22:41:41 <BlueMatt> for the only people who use btc for now (read: geeks) rolling your own is a common thing
2287 2011-02-20 22:41:48 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2288 2011-02-20 22:41:59 <BlueMatt> if btc gets big enough online wallet systems could appear which are trustworthy
2289 2011-02-20 22:42:07 <TD> yeah, eventually
2290 2011-02-20 22:43:17 <BlueMatt> and in the meantime, we dont need a phone wallet app
2291 2011-02-20 22:43:37 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, TD, I'm cool with connecting to my home RPC server for now
2292 2011-02-20 22:43:48 <Lachesis> but i never have occasion to pay people with my phone
2293 2011-02-20 22:44:02 <TD> heh, well, i disagree
2294 2011-02-20 22:44:07 <BlueMatt> and by that time, online wallet systems which may be a bit more trustworthy
2295 2011-02-20 22:44:10 <Lachesis> have you had that need?
2296 2011-02-20 22:44:11 <TD> but feel free to park your bitcoins in the west indies
2297 2011-02-20 22:44:14 <Lachesis> what was that QT Bitcoin thing called again?
2298 2011-02-20 22:44:26 <tcatm> spesmilo?
2299 2011-02-20 22:44:28 <Lachesis> the alternative client
2300 2011-02-20 22:44:29 <Lachesis> yeah
2301 2011-02-20 22:44:30 <Lachesis> ty
2302 2011-02-20 22:44:41 <BlueMatt> QBitcoin
2303 2011-02-20 22:45:34 <BlueMatt> tcatm: are you working on the possibility of unifying the accounts in bitcoin-js-remote?
2304 2011-02-20 22:45:54 <tcatm> BlueMatt: It's on the top of my js-remote todo
2305 2011-02-20 22:45:57 <Lachesis> what's the point of tonal bitcoin, btw?
2306 2011-02-20 22:45:58 <bk128> ArtForz: ok, I switched to xterm on the box, and closed my ssh.  now clinfo shows 2 gpus
2307 2011-02-20 22:46:19 <BlueMatt> Ask if you need help, I'm a bit rusty, but I'll try
2308 2011-02-20 22:46:30 <Lachesis> bk128, env > xterm
2309 2011-02-20 22:46:30 <bk128> diablo is running but only doing 26000 khash/sec
2310 2011-02-20 22:46:38 <Lachesis> bk128, i had that same problem for some reason
2311 2011-02-20 22:46:46 <Lachesis> m0mchil's client runs fine for me though
2312 2011-02-20 22:46:53 <ArtForz> yeha, seems lots of people have that recently
2313 2011-02-20 22:47:04 <bk128> what do you mean env > xterm?
2314 2011-02-20 22:47:11 <bk128> oh, and how do I clean up those paths I put in?
2315 2011-02-20 22:47:18 dust1 has joined
2316 2011-02-20 22:47:20 <ArtForz> what happens if you change framerate or worksize?
2317 2011-02-20 22:47:38 <bk128> I have w 128.  no other options.  is frame -f?
2318 2011-02-20 22:47:45 <ArtForz> I think so
2319 2011-02-20 22:47:47 <BlueMatt> yea
2320 2011-02-20 22:47:50 <Lachesis> bk128, i was suggesting you execute the command "env > xterm" in your shell
2321 2011-02-20 22:47:55 <Lachesis> then do the same over SSH
2322 2011-02-20 22:47:56 doublec has joined
2323 2011-02-20 22:47:56 doublec has quit (Changing host)
2324 2011-02-20 22:47:56 doublec has joined
2325 2011-02-20 22:48:04 <Lachesis> well "env > ssh"
2326 2011-02-20 22:48:11 <Lachesis> then diff the two to see what's different between them
2327 2011-02-20 22:48:14 <ArtForz> ssh is lacking XAUTHORITY
2328 2011-02-20 22:48:22 <bk128> ok.  I'm trying another reboot. one sec
2329 2011-02-20 22:48:29 <ArtForz> xterms obviously have it set
2330 2011-02-20 22:48:32 <tcatm> BlueMatt: Care to create a few sample accounts used as "labels" on https://testnet:letmein@home.nilsschneider.net:8338/ ?
2331 2011-02-20 22:48:50 <BlueMatt> sure
2332 2011-02-20 22:48:57 <Lachesis> tcatm, yep
2333 2011-02-20 22:49:04 <Lachesis> ooh pretty!
2334 2011-02-20 22:49:05 jwalck has joined
2335 2011-02-20 22:49:38 <BlueMatt> Lachesis: https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin-js-remote
2336 2011-02-20 22:49:45 gasteve has joined
2337 2011-02-20 22:49:55 <BlueMatt> tcatm: what do you want me to do again?
2338 2011-02-20 22:50:04 gasteve has quit (Client Quit)
2339 2011-02-20 22:50:21 <tcatm> Just create a few accounts and send testcoins to/from them
2340 2011-02-20 22:50:28 larsivi has joined
2341 2011-02-20 22:50:30 <BlueMatt> fair enough
2342 2011-02-20 22:50:41 <tcatm> Maybe even some moves between accounts
2343 2011-02-20 22:51:10 bk128_ has joined
2344 2011-02-20 22:51:17 <Lachesis> why is Spesmilo printing "N/A" for my balance?
2345 2011-02-20 22:51:50 <BlueMatt> what port does testnet use again?
2346 2011-02-20 22:51:50 <Lachesis> sorry, line-by-line balances
2347 2011-02-20 22:52:12 <BlueMatt> Lachesis: had the same problem, not sure.  Maybe its not done yet?
2348 2011-02-20 22:52:55 <Lachesis> darn bitcoin miner still hasn't found a block ...
2349 2011-02-20 22:53:27 <Lachesis> ArtForz, I've heard rumors that you have a crazy setup; got any pics?
2350 2011-02-20 22:54:25 <bk128_> ArtForz, rebooted, had to run export again for the devices to show up in clinfo.
2351 2011-02-20 22:54:33 <ArtForz> yes
2352 2011-02-20 22:54:53 <ArtForz> export isnt permanent
2353 2011-02-20 22:55:08 <Lachesis> bk128_, you can add the lines to the end of your .bashrc
2354 2011-02-20 22:55:11 <ArtForz> you mean my stack of 5970s?
2355 2011-02-20 22:55:19 <bk128_> tried diablo again with -w128 and was getting 33mhash/sec.  used -w 64 and -f 1 and now i'm getting 618 combined
2356 2011-02-20 22:55:21 <Lachesis> echo "EXPORT DISPLAY=:0" >> ~/.bashrc
2357 2011-02-20 22:55:23 <ArtForz> http://bayimg.com/eABDfaAdd
2358 2011-02-20 22:55:52 <Lachesis> shiny :)
2359 2011-02-20 22:55:58 <Lachesis> how'd you mount the top two cards?
2360 2011-02-20 22:56:00 <BlueMatt> nice :)
2361 2011-02-20 22:56:03 <ArtForz> magic!
2362 2011-02-20 22:56:03 <Lachesis> also, two PSUs / case?
2363 2011-02-20 22:56:05 <Lachesis> lol
2364 2011-02-20 22:56:05 <ArtForz> yes
2365 2011-02-20 22:56:07 <ArtForz> sec
2366 2011-02-20 22:56:10 <TheKid> pcie risers?
2367 2011-02-20 22:56:15 <TheKid> also are they all 5970s?
2368 2011-02-20 22:56:17 <ArtForz> yes
2369 2011-02-20 22:56:18 <ArtForz> http://bayimg.com/KAAeaaAdp
2370 2011-02-20 22:56:31 <ArtForz> 4" pcie risers
2371 2011-02-20 22:56:53 <TD> i look forward to new pics of the structed asic rig
2372 2011-02-20 22:57:02 <Lachesis> how do the PSUs work/
2373 2011-02-20 22:57:13 <Lachesis> top one for the top two cards, bottom for the rest?
2374 2011-02-20 22:57:15 <bk128> I fail at copying art's designs http://imgur.com/a/xxALX
2375 2011-02-20 22:57:18 <ArtForz> yea
2376 2011-02-20 22:57:38 <ArtForz> built simple adapters to slave the top GPU off the bottom one
2377 2011-02-20 22:57:53 <Lachesis> so how many cores does each box report having
2378 2011-02-20 22:57:54 <Lachesis> ?
2379 2011-02-20 22:57:55 <Lachesis> 8?
2380 2011-02-20 22:57:58 <ArtForz> yea
2381 2011-02-20 22:58:03 <bk128> ok, gotta figure out how to monitor temp now and control the clock speed.
2382 2011-02-20 22:58:15 * andrew12 shivers
2383 2011-02-20 22:58:16 <BlueMatt> tcatm: what about if i send coins via rpc or gui, and then open it via rpc-js? Currently, I get negative balances
2384 2011-02-20 22:58:22 <bk128> ArtForz: still waiting for pics of your asics :)
2385 2011-02-20 22:58:33 <tcatm> BlueMatt: huh?
2386 2011-02-20 22:58:46 <Lachesis> bk128, aticonfig --odgt --adapter=all
2387 2011-02-20 22:59:14 <BlueMatt> tcatm: Today I took the wallet from my computer (gui) and moved it onto a server and I have negative balances on the default account, and positive on the others
2388 2011-02-20 22:59:16 <ArtForz> 1 resistor, 1 npn transistor, 1 5.25" molex receptable, 1 20-pin mini-fit-jr receptable (aka 20-pin atx header), bunch of crimp contacts
2389 2011-02-20 22:59:22 <bk128> Lachesis: does echo "EXPORT DISPLAY=:0" >> ~/.bashrc run that command automatically when you start xterm?
2390 2011-02-20 22:59:34 <Lachesis> bk128, automatically whenever you connect, yes
2391 2011-02-20 22:59:50 <Lachesis> make sure you have >> instead of >
2392 2011-02-20 22:59:54 <Lachesis> you can also just edit that file
2393 2011-02-20 22:59:55 <bk128> ArtForz: what's the npn for?
2394 2011-02-20 23:00:06 <andrew12> necrodearia: http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/ is down again o_o
2395 2011-02-20 23:00:12 <tcatm> BlueMatt: Oh that's normal when switching from wxgui to js-remote. wxgui uses accounts as labels and so you receive a lot to those named accounts but send all coins from the default account.
2396 2011-02-20 23:00:35 <BlueMatt> tcatm: anyway to fix that in the js-client
2397 2011-02-20 23:00:41 <ArtForz> emitter to gnd, collector to 2nd PSU PWR_ON, base via 22kR to 1st PSU +12V
2398 2011-02-20 23:00:45 <tcatm> yep that's what I'm working on now
2399 2011-02-20 23:00:51 <Lachesis> oh nice
2400 2011-02-20 23:01:01 <Lachesis> darn ATX psus
2401 2011-02-20 23:01:02 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ahhh, ok sorry my bad
2402 2011-02-20 23:01:03 <tcatm> js-remote will assume accounts are labels, just like the gui does
2403 2011-02-20 23:01:09 <Lachesis> without power switches
2404 2011-02-20 23:01:16 <ArtForz> yep
2405 2011-02-20 23:01:46 fantazo has joined
2406 2011-02-20 23:02:01 <Lachesis> ArtForz, why the +12?
2407 2011-02-20 23:02:03 <ArtForz> ofc a simple wire from PWR_ON to GND on 2nd psu ATX connector would've worked as well (just switch it on/off manually)
2408 2011-02-20 23:02:04 <Lachesis> instead of +3.3 or smt?
2409 2011-02-20 23:02:15 <ArtForz> easiest to get hold of
2410 2011-02-20 23:02:16 hwolf has joined
2411 2011-02-20 23:02:19 <Lachesis> true
2412 2011-02-20 23:02:35 <Lachesis> how much power does 1 card draw?
2413 2011-02-20 23:02:46 <ArtForz> 300W pretty much
2414 2011-02-20 23:02:58 hwolf has quit (Changing host)
2415 2011-02-20 23:02:58 hwolf has joined
2416 2011-02-20 23:03:04 <Lachesis> two 650s?
2417 2011-02-20 23:03:10 <ArtForz> two 1kWs
2418 2011-02-20 23:03:13 <Lachesis> oh wow
2419 2011-02-20 23:03:25 <TheKid> ArtForz invested heavy heh
2420 2011-02-20 23:03:27 <Lachesis> lol yeah
2421 2011-02-20 23:03:31 <ArtForz> running consumer PSUs close to rated load usually == bad idea
2422 2011-02-20 23:03:33 <TheKid> when you sell those off, artforz, lemme know ;)
2423 2011-02-20 23:03:37 <Lachesis> ArtForz, fair enough
2424 2011-02-20 23:04:28 <ArtForz> and even at "only" 600W load most of my Andyson K-series 1kWs blew up
2425 2011-02-20 23:04:53 <ArtForz> ran fine for a few weeks to months, *bang* dead
2426 2011-02-20 23:05:21 <bk128> ArtForz: do you warranty the stuff?
2427 2011-02-20 23:05:39 <ArtForz> nah, I fixed them myself (and improved efficiency while I was there)
2428 2011-02-20 23:05:45 <bk128> what blew up?
2429 2011-02-20 23:05:50 <ArtForz> 12V rectifier FETs
2430 2011-02-20 23:06:00 <ArtForz> they fucked up assembly and didnt properly tighten them to the heatsinks
2431 2011-02-20 23:06:09 <bk128> ArtForz: also, this is kind of unrelated, but how hard would it be to modify an atx to put out 13-14 v instead of 12v?
2432 2011-02-20 23:06:18 <ArtForz> generally, not too hard
2433 2011-02-20 23:07:10 <ArtForz> find controller IC datasheet, find divider for output voltage feedback, change it, done
2434 2011-02-20 23:07:12 <TheKid> bk128: what do you need 13-14v for?
2435 2011-02-20 23:07:19 <bk128> charging batteries
2436 2011-02-20 23:07:22 <TheKid> ahh
2437 2011-02-20 23:07:33 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ending a uri with ;) seems to break the parser
2438 2011-02-20 23:07:35 <TheKid> one of my friends drives an amp with a stock 750w psu
2439 2011-02-20 23:07:37 <ArtForz> I use a hacked ATX PSU for bench testing car audio amplifiers
2440 2011-02-20 23:07:38 <TheKid> it's pretty funny
2441 2011-02-20 23:07:48 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2442 2011-02-20 23:07:50 <bk128> ArtForz: leave it at 12v?
2443 2011-02-20 23:07:55 <ArtForz> nah, 13.8
2444 2011-02-20 23:08:26 <bk128> don't you need different value inductors though when you change the output voltage of a switcher?
2445 2011-02-20 23:08:34 <bk128> or it just runs at lower efficiency if you don't
2446 2011-02-20 23:08:47 <ArtForz> yeah, you increase output ripple a bit
2447 2011-02-20 23:09:04 <tcatm> BlueMatt: which url?
2448 2011-02-20 23:09:09 <BlueMatt> bitcoin:moqcsZHCuf1SxvJARbbPGwYEpp3j61VDeQ?amount=.001&label=BlueMatt&message=BlueMatt's%20Test%20;)
2449 2011-02-20 23:09:13 <ArtForz> got a big LC filter on there anyways
2450 2011-02-20 23:09:17 <bk128> did you just throw one of those huge capacitors on it too?
2451 2011-02-20 23:09:21 <ArtForz> usually voltages/frequencies in schematics are specified at 13.8V in, no load, 1kHz 1Vpp sine input
2452 2011-02-20 23:09:21 <BlueMatt> that one broke it,but I'm assuming anything ending with ;) does
2453 2011-02-20 23:09:22 <ArtForz> nah
2454 2011-02-20 23:09:27 <BlueMatt> as removing the ;) works
2455 2011-02-20 23:09:30 <TheKid> ArtForz: you have a degree in EE?
2456 2011-02-20 23:09:31 <TD> what is the message for?
2457 2011-02-20 23:09:32 <ArtForz> 10*4700uF 16V
2458 2011-02-20 23:09:36 <ArtForz> TheKid: yup
2459 2011-02-20 23:09:50 <ArtForz> and a homemade L in front
2460 2011-02-20 23:09:55 <ArtForz> err... inductance
2461 2011-02-20 23:10:03 <Lachesis> how do you cool those cases?
2462 2011-02-20 23:10:11 <ArtForz> fans
2463 2011-02-20 23:10:21 <Lachesis> ArtForz, lol why didn't i think of that!?
2464 2011-02-20 23:10:25 <ArtForz> see the 3 120mm holes in front?
2465 2011-02-20 23:10:32 <Lachesis> yep
2466 2011-02-20 23:10:33 <ArtForz> thats where 3 120x38mm fans go
2467 2011-02-20 23:10:44 <Lachesis> blowing in?
2468 2011-02-20 23:10:47 <ArtForz> yep
2469 2011-02-20 23:10:59 <Lachesis> how does the CPU vent out?
2470 2011-02-20 23:11:08 <TheKid> shouldn't need to, it's not under lots of stress
2471 2011-02-20 23:11:21 <ArtForz> currently using cscythe ultra kaze 3k, soon replacing those with delta AFB1212HHE
2472 2011-02-20 23:11:22 <TheKid> and assuming those are reference 5970s, they have pretty good coolers
2473 2011-02-20 23:11:31 <ArtForz> cpu vents through PSUs
2474 2011-02-20 23:11:50 <ArtForz> it's not like a sempron 140 at 10% load produces much heat
2475 2011-02-20 23:11:54 <tcatm> BlueMatt: looks like the ; breaks it
2476 2011-02-20 23:12:02 <Lachesis> ArtForz, fair enough
2477 2011-02-20 23:12:03 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ah would make sense
2478 2011-02-20 23:12:14 <bk128> ArtForz: I thought you used 80mm fans
2479 2011-02-20 23:12:18 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2480 2011-02-20 23:12:24 <TheKid> ah, good ol semprons
2481 2011-02-20 23:12:24 <Lachesis> ArtForz, which mobo do you use? I can't find a decent 4-slot one
2482 2011-02-20 23:12:31 <ArtForz> for my asic miners and my 2U 2*5870 boxes
2483 2011-02-20 23:12:43 <ArtForz> Lachesis: MSI 790FX-GD70
2484 2011-02-20 23:13:04 <ArtForz> my 4U 2*5970s have 2x120mm each
2485 2011-02-20 23:13:41 <bk128> ArtForz: are the 120mm's also delta fans?  what do you think I should use for my new box?
2486 2011-02-20 23:13:52 <bk128> I can fit 3 120's probably
2487 2011-02-20 23:14:07 <ArtForz> currently they're scythe ultra kaze 3000, crappiest fan EVER
2488 2011-02-20 23:14:29 <TheKid> deltas are the ones that can cut fingers off, yes
2489 2011-02-20 23:14:30 <TheKid> ?
2490 2011-02-20 23:14:38 <ArtForz> sure, they cost half as much as deltas, but after a few months the bearings already sound like crap
2491 2011-02-20 23:14:43 <ArtForz> not the HHE
2492 2011-02-20 23:14:50 <ArtForz> it's "only" a 4.8W fan
2493 2011-02-20 23:14:52 <andrew12> sweet
2494 2011-02-20 23:15:03 <bk128> ball bearings at least?
2495 2011-02-20 23:15:05 <andrew12> telnet to 68.68.16.43 port 10001
2496 2011-02-20 23:15:15 <ArtForz> deltas have dual ball bearings
2497 2011-02-20 23:15:22 <ArtForz> those scythes are sleeve bearing
2498 2011-02-20 23:15:27 <bk128> sleeves never last
2499 2011-02-20 23:15:42 <ArtForz> they're 3kRPM like the ultra kaze, 6dB quieter, move more air and have higher static pressure
2500 2011-02-20 23:15:52 <Lachesis> andrew12, neat
2501 2011-02-20 23:15:53 <ArtForz> basically "same form factor, WAY less shitty"
2502 2011-02-20 23:15:58 <ArtForz> yep
2503 2011-02-20 23:16:13 <ArtForz> but I got the scythes for like $5.99 a pop
2504 2011-02-20 23:16:22 <andrew12> not even sure if it works yet
2505 2011-02-20 23:16:42 <bk128> ArtForz: //pastebin.com/STAF2VZ7  I still don't understand this pwm code.  this is for your external fan control?  it looks like it's getting the gpu temp from the gpu's internal sensor and running on the computer.  I thought you said you had it controlled by an atmega with thermal diodes as input
2506 2011-02-20 23:17:02 <andrew12> nope it works
2507 2011-02-20 23:17:03 <bk128> Does delta make a 120mm fan?
2508 2011-02-20 23:17:04 <andrew12> w00t
2509 2011-02-20 23:17:11 <ArtForz> bk128: one? dozens!
2510 2011-02-20 23:17:30 <ArtForz> and thats the code for auto-adjusting card fan speed on 5970s so they all run at same temp :P
2511 2011-02-20 23:17:54 <Lachesis> what temps do you get?
2512 2011-02-20 23:17:57 <ArtForz> for my GPU boxes the 120mm fans run 100% 24/7
2513 2011-02-20 23:18:01 <ArtForz> 77°C
2514 2011-02-20 23:18:07 <ArtForz> at 35-40% fanspeed
2515 2011-02-20 23:18:13 <bk128> oh.  well I have no idea what to do with that :p
2516 2011-02-20 23:18:15 <andrew12> restarted it in screen so that i can leave :p
2517 2011-02-20 23:18:35 <ArtForz> except for GPU 1, that one runs at ~45%
2518 2011-02-20 23:18:40 <ArtForz> *card 1
2519 2011-02-20 23:18:49 <andrew12> should probably put something in there that shows after you connect that tells you you can donate to <address here>
2520 2011-02-20 23:18:53 <jgarzik> luke-jr: Linux kernel long ago recognized the need to lower barriers for reviewers.  It is simply /unscalable/ to request reviewers figure out each individual developer's git setup, create a diff, and then review it.  Especially when anyone with half a brain can post a URL to an easily reviewable patch.
2521 2011-02-20 23:19:04 <bk128> ArtForz: is that fan speed control easy to set up?
2522 2011-02-20 23:19:07 <jgarzik> luke-jr: "Do it Luke-Jr's way" is not scalable across N developers
2523 2011-02-20 23:19:09 <Lachesis> andrew12, is the code available?
2524 2011-02-20 23:19:13 <andrew12> Lachesis: sure
2525 2011-02-20 23:19:15 <ArtForz> bk128: err... yes
2526 2011-02-20 23:19:25 davex__ has joined
2527 2011-02-20 23:19:25 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/1587371
2528 2011-02-20 23:19:33 <bk128> or... would I be able to figure it out :)
2529 2011-02-20 23:19:35 <andrew12> GServer is awesome
2530 2011-02-20 23:20:01 <Lachesis> andrew12, sorry, what language?
2531 2011-02-20 23:20:03 <davex__> ;;bc,estimate
2532 2011-02-20 23:20:04 <gribble> 48010.79580133
2533 2011-02-20 23:20:04 <andrew12> ruby
2534 2011-02-20 23:20:08 <davex__> ;;bc,stats
2535 2011-02-20 23:20:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109382 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1497 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 2 minutes, and 9 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48010.79580133
2536 2011-02-20 23:20:13 <Lachesis> been meaning to pick that up
2537 2011-02-20 23:20:13 <ArtForz> get AMD ADL SDK, adjust targettemp and Kp/i/d to your liking, compile with -latiadlxx, run
2538 2011-02-20 23:20:42 * bk128 saves for later :)
2539 2011-02-20 23:21:08 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 169
2540 2011-02-20 23:21:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 169 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 29 years, 19 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 37 minutes, and 25 seconds
2541 2011-02-20 23:21:13 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 169000
2542 2011-02-20 23:21:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 169000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1 week, 3 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes, and 11 seconds
2543 2011-02-20 23:21:20 <ArtForz> not *really* neccessary, manually set fanspeed works pretty much equally well
2544 2011-02-20 23:21:28 <bk128> what are kp/i/d?  PID constants?  how do you find the ideal ones?
2545 2011-02-20 23:21:30 <Lachesis> ;;bc,calcd 169000 46000
2546 2011-02-20 23:21:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 169000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 46000, is 1 week, 6 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, and 4 seconds
2547 2011-02-20 23:21:36 <xelister> ;;help calc
2548 2011-02-20 23:21:36 <gribble> (calc <expression>) -- Uses Google's calculator to calculate the value of <expression>.
2549 2011-02-20 23:21:45 <ArtForz> yep, PId constants
2550 2011-02-20 23:22:18 <ArtForz> and "well, same way you usually find PID constants, trial and error and lots of fun oscillations"
2551 2011-02-20 23:22:21 <bk128_> you just set them by guessing and adjusting?
2552 2011-02-20 23:22:57 <ArtForz> pretty much
2553 2011-02-20 23:22:58 <andrew12> whoops
2554 2011-02-20 23:23:02 <Lachesis> lol too many donations :)
2555 2011-02-20 23:23:14 <ArtForz> it's a cooling fan, not some highly critical process variable
2556 2011-02-20 23:23:39 <ArtForz> iirc I currently run with main loop delay lowered to 1s, P 4.0, I 0.33, D 3.0
2557 2011-02-20 23:24:22 <nanotube> Lachesis: feel free to forward some to me, if you have too many :D
2558 2011-02-20 23:24:26 <TheKid> ArtForz: you've significantly devalued your bitcoins
2559 2011-02-20 23:24:27 <TheKid> :P
2560 2011-02-20 23:24:29 <ArtForz> also limited internal integral accumulator to +-150 (so it can adjust +-50% fanspeed max)
2561 2011-02-20 23:24:33 <andrew12> nanotube: he was talking about something i accidentally did
2562 2011-02-20 23:24:36 <Lachesis> nanotube, no i was talking about andrew12's feed
2563 2011-02-20 23:24:38 <Lachesis> yeah
2564 2011-02-20 23:24:41 <Lachesis> nice
2565 2011-02-20 23:24:50 <Lachesis> so when you connect, it dumps ASKS, BIDS, and TRADES?
2566 2011-02-20 23:24:50 <andrew12> i made it ask for donations over and over rather than just once :P
2567 2011-02-20 23:24:51 <nanotube> andrew12: ah you have your mtgoxmonitor script output donation address eh. :)
2568 2011-02-20 23:24:58 <nanotube> hehe ic
2569 2011-02-20 23:25:05 <andrew12> but i fixed it
2570 2011-02-20 23:25:06 <ArtForz> TheKid: eh?
2571 2011-02-20 23:25:09 <andrew12> Lachesis: yes
2572 2011-02-20 23:25:20 <Lachesis> ArtForz, then prints when things change
2573 2011-02-20 23:25:35 <andrew12> i can probably make it so it will ask you if you just want to see trades
2574 2011-02-20 23:25:37 <Lachesis> andrew12, **
2575 2011-02-20 23:25:47 <TheKid> ArtForz: when you sold that huge bunch of coins on mtgox, you caused a market panic and now the price seems to be consolidating at around .85 or so
2576 2011-02-20 23:25:54 <ArtForz> yep
2577 2011-02-20 23:26:08 <TheKid> jerk
2578 2011-02-20 23:26:11 <ArtForz> hopefully it'll go down some more
2579 2011-02-20 23:26:18 <andrew12> should probably make it show the time in gmt instead of est
2580 2011-02-20 23:26:39 <TheKid> andrew12: why gmt rather than est?
2581 2011-02-20 23:26:44 <TheKid> est is the CORRECT time zone
2582 2011-02-20 23:26:52 <Lachesis> ArtForz, why 5970s instead of 5870s?
2583 2011-02-20 23:26:53 <andrew12> TheKid: because not everyone lives in est? lol
2584 2011-02-20 23:26:55 <Lachesis> or different
2585 2011-02-20 23:27:09 <Lachesis> TheKid, because EST sometimes becomes EDT
2586 2011-02-20 23:27:13 <andrew12> that too
2587 2011-02-20 23:27:19 <ArtForz> Lachesis: in early december 5970s were like $499
2588 2011-02-20 23:27:32 <TheKid> Lachesis: was joke :P
2589 2011-02-20 23:27:35 <da2ce7> :)
2590 2011-02-20 23:27:42 <andrew12> heh
2591 2011-02-20 23:27:45 <TheKid> I just bought a 5970 on craigslist for 400
2592 2011-02-20 23:27:50 <TheKid> well, 415 including shipping
2593 2011-02-20 23:27:53 <Lachesis> TheKid, yeah i know, but i just recently learned the hard way that if i don't use GMT, MySQL screws me over
2594 2011-02-20 23:27:59 <Lachesis> ArtForz, was that a better deal?
2595 2011-02-20 23:28:01 <Lachesis> how much are they now?
2596 2011-02-20 23:28:07 <TheKid> and a VaporX 5870 for 208
2597 2011-02-20 23:28:12 <TheKid> that was a good deal imo
2598 2011-02-20 23:28:15 <bk128_> Lachesis, is there something you can leave running to show temps that keeps refreshing?
2599 2011-02-20 23:28:24 <Lachesis> bk128_ sure
2600 2011-02-20 23:28:24 <TheKid> speedfan?
2601 2011-02-20 23:28:28 <andrew12> there
2602 2011-02-20 23:28:29 <andrew12> now its all utc
2603 2011-02-20 23:28:32 <TheKid> though you guys are probably on linux
2604 2011-02-20 23:28:34 <davex__> haha figured that was art doing that selloff
2605 2011-02-20 23:28:43 <Lachesis> watch -n4 "aticonfig --odgt --adapter=all"
2606 2011-02-20 23:28:44 <bk128_> TheKid, yeah, this one is debian x64
2607 2011-02-20 23:28:57 <Lachesis> change 4 to the number of seconds you want
2608 2011-02-20 23:29:03 <Lachesis> between refreshes
2609 2011-02-20 23:29:06 <andrew12> hopefully that will be the last time i need to restart it
2610 2011-02-20 23:29:21 <bk128_> cool :)  is aticonfig also used to control clock memory speed?
2611 2011-02-20 23:29:22 <Lachesis> andrew12, you should make a github project or smt
2612 2011-02-20 23:29:26 <Lachesis> bk128, yes
2613 2011-02-20 23:29:35 <andrew12> yeah maybe
2614 2011-02-20 23:29:36 <andrew12> :p
2615 2011-02-20 23:29:37 <Lachesis> aticonfig --help | grep od
2616 2011-02-20 23:29:45 <andrew12> using git would make it easier for me to make it start
2617 2011-02-20 23:30:05 <andrew12> because i could make a port-receive script
2618 2011-02-20 23:30:19 <andrew12> but i'm about to leave..
2619 2011-02-20 23:30:27 <Lachesis> andrew12, fair enough - when you get back :)
2620 2011-02-20 23:30:32 <andrew12> indeed
2621 2011-02-20 23:30:53 <bk128_> ok.  one thing i was wondering is how you should scale memory speed compared to gpu clock speed.  do you just change them the same percentage?
2622 2011-02-20 23:31:04 <Lachesis> bk128, i've heard memory speed should be as low as possible
2623 2011-02-20 23:31:22 <ArtForz> yeah
2624 2011-02-20 23:31:29 <ArtForz> I run my 5970s at 800MHz mem
2625 2011-02-20 23:31:36 <ArtForz> (yes, 200 below stock...)
2626 2011-02-20 23:31:43 <Lachesis> ArtForz, how do you modify outside the range ATI config gives you?
2627 2011-02-20 23:32:05 <ArtForz> hacked card bios
2628 2011-02-20 23:32:09 <Lachesis> ArtForz, ah
2629 2011-02-20 23:32:17 <Lachesis> probably not worth it for 5870s
2630 2011-02-20 23:32:27 <ArtForz> probably not
2631 2011-02-20 23:32:47 <Lachesis> how much are 5970s now days, anyway?
2632 2011-02-20 23:33:02 <TheKid> on ebay you can buy it now for 600
2633 2011-02-20 23:33:09 <TheKid> new I believe
2634 2011-02-20 23:33:13 <TheKid> or try your luck with auctions
2635 2011-02-20 23:33:32 <bk128_> ArtForz, do you think -w 64 -f 1 is best?  any other switches I should mess with?
2636 2011-02-20 23:33:37 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2637 2011-02-20 23:33:42 <ArtForz> sounds good
2638 2011-02-20 23:33:44 <Lachesis> cheapest i see is ~710
2639 2011-02-20 23:33:54 <TheKid> I use -w 128 and don't notice a difference between that and 256
2640 2011-02-20 23:34:18 <Lachesis> ArtForz, why diablo over m0mchil's client?
2641 2011-02-20 23:35:21 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 500000
2642 2011-02-20 23:35:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 3 days, 14 hours, 59 minutes, and 48 seconds
2643 2011-02-20 23:38:35 bk128_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2644 2011-02-20 23:38:55 TD has joined
2645 2011-02-20 23:40:01 <TheKid> ATI's new windows monitoring tool is pretty nice
2646 2011-02-20 23:41:18 <BlueMatt> tcatm: also, the X next to amount (if you have an account w/ 0 selected) should update when you change accounts, even if you dont change the amount/select+deselect the amount field
2647 2011-02-20 23:41:25 <BlueMatt> ;;seen tcatm
2648 2011-02-20 23:41:25 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 29 minutes and 30 seconds ago: <tcatm> BlueMatt: looks like the ; breaks it
2649 2011-02-20 23:41:50 <TheKid> BlueMatt: what are you working on?
2650 2011-02-20 23:42:08 <BlueMatt> TheKid: I was helping tcatm test bitcoin-js-remote on his server
2651 2011-02-20 23:42:12 <BlueMatt> but he has since left
2652 2011-02-20 23:42:19 <BlueMatt> actually quite a while ago
2653 2011-02-20 23:42:20 <tcatm> I'm still here
2654 2011-02-20 23:42:29 <BlueMatt> oh, wait why is my user list broke
2655 2011-02-20 23:42:56 <tcatm> X in senddialog: yes it should. Problem is getting that event routed through javascript is a little messy...
2656 2011-02-20 23:45:47 <BlueMatt> tcatm: also, iPhone view is quite messed up (fonts WAY too big)
2657 2011-02-20 23:46:00 <bk128> Lachesis: do you use screen?
2658 2011-02-20 23:46:06 <bk128> and diablo
2659 2011-02-20 23:46:08 <tcatm> BlueMatt: can you make a screenshot?
2660 2011-02-20 23:47:44 <BlueMatt> tcatm: http://imgur.com/nXduo
2661 2011-02-20 23:47:57 <tcatm> oh
2662 2011-02-20 23:48:15 <BlueMatt> tcatm: similar all the way down the page
2663 2011-02-20 23:48:28 <tcatm> so everyhing is just scaled?
2664 2011-02-20 23:48:36 <BlueMatt> except the background images
2665 2011-02-20 23:48:40 <BlueMatt> they are the perfect width
2666 2011-02-20 23:48:49 <BlueMatt> so just text
2667 2011-02-20 23:49:03 <BlueMatt> oh wait, no horizontal is scaled wrong too
2668 2011-02-20 23:49:09 <luke-jr> jgarzik: a simple git command != figure out each individual…
2669 2011-02-20 23:50:47 <bk128> Lachesis: what's this mean?  I'm using ssh now bill@miner1:~$ sudo aticonfig -odgt
2670 2011-02-20 23:50:47 <bk128> Using dgt
2671 2011-02-20 23:50:47 <bk128> Saving back-up to dgt.fglrx-0
2672 2011-02-20 23:51:04 <jgarzik> luke-jr: sorry, it does.
2673 2011-02-20 23:51:13 <jgarzik> that's experience.
2674 2011-02-20 23:51:24 <bk128> do I need to run it from screen?  right now the miner is running in an xterm
2675 2011-02-20 23:51:44 <jgarzik> dealing with each individual contributor's individual instructions for finding the change they wish to contribute is an unscalable development process.
2676 2011-02-20 23:51:56 <BlueMatt> tcatm: http://imgur.com/4F5WV see both images
2677 2011-02-20 23:51:58 <nanotube> luke-jr: not sure what you guys are discussing... but there's git format-patch that'll produce a nice ... patch :)
2678 2011-02-20 23:52:36 <tcatm> BlueMatt: refresh, does it look better now?
2679 2011-02-20 23:52:41 <luke-jr> nanotube: he wants me to combine several logical changes into one big huge HTML-pretty patch
2680 2011-02-20 23:53:06 <nanotube> html??
2681 2011-02-20 23:53:09 <BlueMatt> tcatm: the background scales to the right width, but the font is still too big (same size)
2682 2011-02-20 23:53:10 <jgarzik> s/HTML-pretty//   You are inventing words.
2683 2011-02-20 23:53:52 <jgarzik> Linux kernel requests a plaintext diff on a mailing list, or, if it's too large, at a URL easily grabbable.  Even from git contributors.  Because that's the easiest for all involved.
2684 2011-02-20 23:53:54 <nanotube> luke-jr: if the changes are each sensible when taken standalone, they can be separate patches. if they each require the other to make sense, then making one big patch is more sensible.
2685 2011-02-20 23:54:20 <BlueMatt> tcatm: though in vertical, the title runs slightly off the background, but the rest scales right
2686 2011-02-20 23:54:22 <Lachesis> bk128, no idea, what's up?
2687 2011-02-20 23:54:38 <jgarzik> nanotube: that's not the issue being discussed.  luke-jr wants to make each reviewer figure out his kernel tree, do a clone and some specialized diff instructions, just to display --what he wants to push upstream--
2688 2011-02-20 23:54:45 <Lachesis> bk128, if you want to give me ssh access, i'll poke at it
2689 2011-02-20 23:54:49 <jgarzik> it should not be that hard to simply figure out what the changes are
2690 2011-02-20 23:54:58 <nanotube> jgarzik: ah... yea not very scaleable. that's what git format-patch is for.
2691 2011-02-20 23:55:03 <jgarzik> nanotube: yep
2692 2011-02-20 23:55:16 <Lachesis> my ssh key is https://www.alloscomp.com/sshkey.txt if you want to do that
2693 2011-02-20 23:56:00 <jgarzik> Lachesis: Since you're here... wanted to thank you for permitting custom difficulty input at http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
2694 2011-02-20 23:56:01 <tcatm> BlueMatt: mhm but text is still too big?
2695 2011-02-20 23:56:10 <Lachesis> jgarzik, yeah np
2696 2011-02-20 23:56:14 <Lachesis> realized it was a useful feature
2697 2011-02-20 23:56:14 <BlueMatt> tcatm: yes
2698 2011-02-20 23:56:19 <tcatm> refresh again
2699 2011-02-20 23:56:28 <jgarzik> Lachesis: yeah, I use it for pool calculation (difficulty 1)
2700 2011-02-20 23:56:31 <BlueMatt> still too big
2701 2011-02-20 23:56:52 <tcatm> and now?
2702 2011-02-20 23:57:17 <BlueMatt> too big and with large blank spaces on both sides
2703 2011-02-20 23:57:26 <tcatm> screenshot?
2704 2011-02-20 23:57:33 <Lachesis> i use it to predict income after next diff change
2705 2011-02-20 23:57:46 <BlueMatt> tcatm: desktop version
2706 2011-02-20 23:57:55 <BlueMatt> tcatm: with the option to zoom
2707 2011-02-20 23:58:10 <doublec> luke-jr: why is the bit labelled 'impossible to do' in rpc.0 impossible to do?
2708 2011-02-20 23:58:40 <tcatm> BlueMatt: okay that's what I expected
2709 2011-02-20 23:59:44 <tcatm> does it look better now?
2710 2011-02-20 23:59:59 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ahh much better