1 2011-02-21 00:00:24 <BlueMatt> tcatm: still scales as if the screen were 50% longer when in horizontal
   2 2011-02-21 00:00:41 <tcatm> okay, another update
   3 2011-02-21 00:01:00 <BlueMatt> tcatm: and the last 38 in the title are off the side of the screen in vertical, and behind the x in horiz
   4 2011-02-21 00:01:11 <BlueMatt> its scaling to the width of the title in horiz
   5 2011-02-21 00:02:03 <tcatm> hm... screenshot?
   6 2011-02-21 00:02:14 <BlueMatt> in vert it is scaling to the hostname + port, but the other two words are wrapping
   7 2011-02-21 00:03:20 <BlueMatt> tcatm: http://imgur.com/cGtZJ
   8 2011-02-21 00:03:21 lzsaver has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
   9 2011-02-21 00:03:26 <BlueMatt> look at the title off the edge
  10 2011-02-21 00:04:05 <tcatm> oh so only the title is breaking the layout?
  11 2011-02-21 00:04:10 <BlueMatt> yea
  12 2011-02-21 00:04:42 <tcatm> better?
  13 2011-02-21 00:05:01 <BlueMatt> tcatm:still no
  14 2011-02-21 00:05:04 <BlueMatt> same as it was
  15 2011-02-21 00:05:19 <BlueMatt> tcatm: also in horiz http://imgur.com/NyqMI
  16 2011-02-21 00:05:34 <BlueMatt> tcatm: as the words dont wrap in horiz
  17 2011-02-21 00:06:02 <tcatm> now?
  18 2011-02-21 00:06:12 <luke-jr> doublec: because RPCv0 only supports multiples of 1000000 base units
  19 2011-02-21 00:06:31 <luke-jr> nanotube: they all work standalone, but focus on the same objective goal
  20 2011-02-21 00:06:53 <luke-jr> jgarzik: nothing specialized about an ordinary fetch && diff
  21 2011-02-21 00:07:03 <BlueMatt> tcatm: looks the same, but wont let you scroll to the right to see the last 38 in the title
  22 2011-02-21 00:07:13 <BlueMatt> tcatm: but horiz looks the same
  23 2011-02-21 00:07:14 <nanotube> well... maybe make separate patches for them, but include their content/links to them in the same email. ;)
  24 2011-02-21 00:07:19 <nanotube> luke-jr: --^
  25 2011-02-21 00:07:34 <tcatm> yeah it should just cutoff the text if it doesn't fit
  26 2011-02-21 00:08:03 <BlueMatt> it is for vertical
  27 2011-02-21 00:08:17 <tcatm> ?
  28 2011-02-21 00:08:18 <luke-jr> nanotube: but there is no email :P
  29 2011-02-21 00:08:23 <BlueMatt> horizontal can still scroll to the right
  30 2011-02-21 00:08:33 <luke-jr> he wants some web-pretty coloured diff
  31 2011-02-21 00:08:41 <BlueMatt> and the title is under the x (as in the screen)
  32 2011-02-21 00:08:42 <tcatm> hm I need an iPhone :/
  33 2011-02-21 00:08:48 <luke-jr> and not a single free git web interface actually supports that
  34 2011-02-21 00:08:59 <BlueMatt> tcatm: not worth it, im getting android next time
  35 2011-02-21 00:09:20 <tcatm> cheap/old iPod touch
  36 2011-02-21 00:09:31 * luke-jr hopes he's never forced to buy a cellphone
  37 2011-02-21 00:09:33 <nanotube> luke-jr: i think he has mentioned that a plain text patch is sufficient. if you use a pastebin that supports syntax highlight... it'll give you pretty colors. :)
  38 2011-02-21 00:09:36 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ill sell you my 3gs when I get a new one this summer
  39 2011-02-21 00:09:43 <tcatm> cool
  40 2011-02-21 00:09:47 <tcatm> for bitcoins? ;)
  41 2011-02-21 00:09:52 <BlueMatt> tcatm: sure
  42 2011-02-21 00:10:03 <BlueMatt> then youll be 2 generations behind :) (sarc)
  43 2011-02-21 00:10:05 <nanotube> jgarzik: what about bc,calcd? :)
  44 2011-02-21 00:10:08 <luke-jr> nanotube: missed that bit
  45 2011-02-21 00:10:08 <tcatm> where are you from?
  46 2011-02-21 00:10:20 <BlueMatt> germany atm, us next summer when i get a new one
  47 2011-02-21 00:11:37 <tcatm> oh if you were still in germany shipping would be easier
  48 2011-02-21 00:11:46 <necrodearia> andrew12, up again
  49 2011-02-21 00:11:51 <BlueMatt> tcatm: where are you?
  50 2011-02-21 00:11:59 <tcatm> germany ;)
  51 2011-02-21 00:12:05 <BlueMatt> ah
  52 2011-02-21 00:12:13 <BlueMatt> hence the german name
  53 2011-02-21 00:12:20 <tcatm> yep
  54 2011-02-21 00:13:43 <doublec> luke-jr: ah, right, of course, thanks
  55 2011-02-21 00:16:18 fantazo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  56 2011-02-21 00:17:31 Syke has joined
  57 2011-02-21 00:23:40 <BlueMatt> tcatm: scaling right in horiz now
  58 2011-02-21 00:23:53 <tcatm> huh? strange. I didn't change anything
  59 2011-02-21 00:24:13 <BlueMatt> tcatm: not sure but it isnt too large, ie cant scroll in horiz
  60 2011-02-21 00:24:22 <tcatm> cool
  61 2011-02-21 00:24:24 <BlueMatt> tcatm: maybe cache errors earlier, no idea
  62 2011-02-21 00:24:29 <tcatm> probably
  63 2011-02-21 00:25:28 <BlueMatt> though the last 38 is behind the X and cut off in vert.  Maybe replace with ... (though that might be hard to get the right cutoff)
  64 2011-02-21 00:25:31 Syke_ has joined
  65 2011-02-21 00:25:34 <BlueMatt> on second though, its not worth it
  66 2011-02-21 00:26:30 <tcatm> Yep, the … would hide even more information
  67 2011-02-21 00:26:47 T_X has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  68 2011-02-21 00:27:03 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  69 2011-02-21 00:27:56 <BlueMatt> tcatm: though in vert all I see is 2 or 3 letters of the Info column in transactions (the date doesnt get the ..., and there is a big gap between the ... in info and amount)
  70 2011-02-21 00:28:43 <tcatm> Yep :/ That's really hard to get right without using javascript to adjust column widths (and I don't want to do that)
  71 2011-02-21 00:29:08 <BlueMatt> OK, well fair enough, but maybe remove the time from the date column in vertical?
  72 2011-02-21 00:29:22 Shfork has joined
  73 2011-02-21 00:29:24 <tcatm> I can't even detect vertical and horizontal mode
  74 2011-02-21 00:29:24 T_X has joined
  75 2011-02-21 00:29:24 T_X has quit (Changing host)
  76 2011-02-21 00:29:24 T_X has joined
  77 2011-02-21 00:30:31 T_X has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  78 2011-02-21 00:30:32 <BlueMatt> tcatm: its back to scrolling in horiz, really hav no idea whats going on
  79 2011-02-21 00:31:11 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  80 2011-02-21 00:31:29 T_X has joined
  81 2011-02-21 00:31:29 T_X has quit (Changing host)
  82 2011-02-21 00:31:29 T_X has joined
  83 2011-02-21 00:31:30 <BlueMatt> tcatm: Ok, well is time even necessary at all?
  84 2011-02-21 00:31:38 <BlueMatt> tcatm: the lack of info column is kind of anoying
  85 2011-02-21 00:32:08 Diablo-D3 has joined
  86 2011-02-21 00:32:42 <tcatm> I could move to info box that appears when you click on a TX
  87 2011-02-21 00:32:53 <BlueMatt> tcatm: that would work
  88 2011-02-21 00:33:34 <tcatm> And shorten it in the Date column (only time for today, only date for older than today)
  89 2011-02-21 00:33:45 <BlueMatt> tcatm: sounds perfecct
  90 2011-02-21 00:33:50 <BlueMatt> perfect*
  91 2011-02-21 00:34:08 <luke-jr> jgarzik: pastebin added to original post
  92 2011-02-21 00:37:38 noagendamarket has joined
  93 2011-02-21 00:40:20 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  94 2011-02-21 00:41:56 <andrew12> and now i'm back
  95 2011-02-21 00:50:26 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
  96 2011-02-21 00:53:00 <BlueMatt> tcatm: I'm off for the night, if you need any more testing tomorrow or any other time, please msg me.  Also, can you commit the iphone optimizations to the github so I can download it tomorrow?
  97 2011-02-21 00:54:29 <tcatm> I just committed everything, including labelsmode
  98 2011-02-21 00:55:08 <BlueMatt> tcatm: oops iphone appears to have reverted to what it was when you started :(, not sure what happened
  99 2011-02-21 00:56:26 <BlueMatt> tcatm: well its scaling to the title and all the fonts are just a bit too big
 100 2011-02-21 00:56:36 <BlueMatt> tcatm: maybe not quite as big as they were when you started
 101 2011-02-21 01:01:55 <bk128> wow my corsair 850 psu has a .99 power factor.  cheap raidmax had about .7-.8
 102 2011-02-21 01:02:59 <bk128> active pfc really does work
 103 2011-02-21 01:03:03 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 104 2011-02-21 01:03:11 <TheKid> bk128: power factor?
 105 2011-02-21 01:03:18 <bk128> yeah.
 106 2011-02-21 01:03:28 <TheKid> as in, what is it
 107 2011-02-21 01:04:20 <bk128> better explanation than I can give here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
 108 2011-02-21 01:04:35 <BlueMatt> tcatm: must be cache issues, vertical looks perfect, and horiz is just too wide still when I dlded the latest version and put it on my server
 109 2011-02-21 01:04:54 <bk128> "a load with a low power factor draws more current than a load with a high power factor for the same amount of useful power transferred"
 110 2011-02-21 01:04:59 <TheKid> oh okay
 111 2011-02-21 01:05:21 <BlueMatt> so...efficiency
 112 2011-02-21 01:05:35 <xelister>  ㋡
 113 2011-02-21 01:05:36 <bk128> it's an ac power thing.  current lags the voltage
 114 2011-02-21 01:05:36 <bk128> yeah
 115 2011-02-21 01:05:57 <BlueMatt> xelister:???
 116 2011-02-21 01:06:27 <xelister> BlueMatt: =) ㋡
 117 2011-02-21 01:06:33 <bk128> most cheap devices just use a capacitor to cancel out the inductive load I think.  big ac motors will have capacitors on them to correct the pfc
 118 2011-02-21 01:06:37 <BlueMatt> xelister: random character, what ever
 119 2011-02-21 01:06:44 <xelister> it's a smile
 120 2011-02-21 01:06:55 <BlueMatt> I got that, but it looks odd in my client
 121 2011-02-21 01:07:07 <ArtForz> pf doesnt matter much for efficiency, it does matter for copper losses
 122 2011-02-21 01:07:17 <BlueMatt> the smile is on the right side, kind of a lopsided simle
 123 2011-02-21 01:07:25 <BlueMatt> anyway, I'm off, see you guys later
 124 2011-02-21 01:07:35 <[Tycho]> PFC matters for small UPSes :)
 125 2011-02-21 01:07:54 <ArtForz> small UPSes are crap anyways
 126 2011-02-21 01:07:59 <[Tycho]> They may not hold well PF-corrected PSUs.
 127 2011-02-21 01:08:09 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 128 2011-02-21 01:08:18 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/wareh.jpg :)
 129 2011-02-21 01:08:56 <ArtForz> running a bestpower ferrups here
 130 2011-02-21 01:09:13 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 131 2011-02-21 01:09:20 <ArtForz> ferroresonant UPSes dont give a rats ass if load appears capacitive
 132 2011-02-21 01:09:42 <ArtForz> thay actually like that better than inductive loads
 133 2011-02-21 01:09:47 <TheKid> I can't wait to get into college (going for EE)
 134 2011-02-21 01:09:53 <TheKid> so I know what the hell you guys are talking about
 135 2011-02-21 01:10:15 <bk128> ArtForz: what do you mean copper loss?
 136 2011-02-21 01:10:33 <ArtForz> resistive loss in wiring and transofmer/generator windings
 137 2011-02-21 01:10:46 Syke_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 138 2011-02-21 01:10:58 <ArtForz> low PF = lots of current flowing around doing not much work
 139 2011-02-21 01:11:54 <bk128> so if everything in your house had a pf of .5 would you pay more for power?
 140 2011-02-21 01:12:05 <ArtForz> nope
 141 2011-02-21 01:12:30 <bk128> electric company would lose the power in transmission and in their transformers?
 142 2011-02-21 01:12:44 <ArtForz> no
 143 2011-02-21 01:12:49 <[Tycho]> Same power, less wire gauge.
 144 2011-02-21 01:12:55 <bk128> oh
 145 2011-02-21 01:12:56 <necrodearia> Re: witcoin.com - I am working on category creation now.  I want to establish ability for users to create categories in a way that is fair for them and for all other users.  Currently I am considering a basic/simple approach in which to create a category, a single cost of 1 witcoin.  At that cost, that indiciates after only 200 posts/replies, the user that created the category will establish profits thereafter.  This seems to encourage u
 146 2011-02-21 01:12:57 <necrodearia> sers to be the first to create as many categories as possible and reap profits.  Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas on a more fair implementation for category creation?
 147 2011-02-21 01:12:58 <ArtForz> they would have higher losses, but not much higher
 148 2011-02-21 01:13:13 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 149 2011-02-21 01:13:23 <ArtForz> usually only industrial customers are billed extra for bad PF
 150 2011-02-21 01:14:15 <bk128> ugh, my lights are flickering.  computer is drawing 550 watts.  I'm in a small apartment
 151 2011-02-21 01:14:24 <ArtForz> one problem with old-style non-PF corrected PSUs is that they uglify the sinewave
 152 2011-02-21 01:15:18 <ArtForz> causing excessive hum in transformers and motors
 153 2011-02-21 01:15:38 <bk128> oh
 154 2011-02-21 01:16:09 <ArtForz> basically they "eat" into the top of the sinewave
 155 2011-02-21 01:16:18 <bk128> so vpp is lower?
 156 2011-02-21 01:16:21 <ArtForz> yep
 157 2011-02-21 01:16:29 <ArtForz> result looks somewhat like a clipped sine
 158 2011-02-21 01:16:48 <ArtForz> pretty obvious when you think about it
 159 2011-02-21 01:16:58 Syke_ has joined
 160 2011-02-21 01:17:00 <bk128> but if you're losing power to resistance in wiring (power is going to heat I assume) don't you have to buy more power to get the same amount of work out of your devices?
 161 2011-02-21 01:17:10 <ArtForz> yes
 162 2011-02-21 01:17:17 <ArtForz> but wiring loss is pretty small
 163 2011-02-21 01:17:33 <bk128> ok
 164 2011-02-21 01:17:39 <ArtForz> at 0.5 pf you'd double your wiring loss, but twice not much is still not much
 165 2011-02-21 01:18:47 <ArtForz> input stage on old switchmode PSUs was usually just a rectifier and a big cap = no current flowing through 0 crossings, high current draw around peak voltage
 166 2011-02-21 01:19:24 <ArtForz> = enough of them chop off the peak
 167 2011-02-21 01:20:00 <bk128> so how does active pfc work?
 168 2011-02-21 01:20:18 <ArtForz> it's basically a boost converter
 169 2011-02-21 01:20:39 <bk128> ok
 170 2011-02-21 01:21:11 <ArtForz> with current limit following (rectified input voltage * output of control circuit) to control output voltage
 171 2011-02-21 01:21:31 <ArtForz> so their input current draw follows the voltage of the sinewave
 172 2011-02-21 01:22:27 <ArtForz> = smooth the 100kHz or so ripple from the switching and input current nicely follows input voltage
 173 2011-02-21 01:22:40 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 174 2011-02-21 01:22:49 <ArtForz> = looks like a purely resistive load
 175 2011-02-21 01:23:19 <bk128> wow atx switchers are 100khz ?
 176 2011-02-21 01:23:24 <ArtForz> another benefit, you have a nice 380 - 400V DC rail to feed your main switchmode transformer with, independent of input voltage
 177 2011-02-21 01:23:30 <ArtForz> PFCs usually are
 178 2011-02-21 01:23:34 <ArtForz> often even higher
 179 2011-02-21 01:24:00 <bk128> do you know of any atx psu schematics I can look at?
 180 2011-02-21 01:24:06 <ArtForz> hmmm.... no
 181 2011-02-21 01:24:13 <bk128> ok.  I'll google it.
 182 2011-02-21 01:24:22 <ArtForz> oh, and nowadays theres like a dozen different topologies used in ATX PSUs
 183 2011-02-21 01:24:25 jlk102935908a has joined
 184 2011-02-21 01:24:30 <bk128> ugh
 185 2011-02-21 01:24:42 <ArtForz> old 150-200W stuff used to be flyback or single transistor forward
 186 2011-02-21 01:25:27 <ArtForz> nowadays you mostly have forward converters for smaller units, push-pull for bigger, weird resonant topologies for high-efficiency stuff
 187 2011-02-21 01:25:30 <bk128> whenever I open a ps, there's always obscure IC's inside I can never find datasheets for
 188 2011-02-21 01:25:38 <ArtForz> yep, they like to do that
 189 2011-02-21 01:26:32 <bk128> guess I'd just have to poke at it for a while with my meter and scope
 190 2011-02-21 01:26:35 <ArtForz> resonant converters are usually LLC half bridge or phase-shift fullbridge
 191 2011-02-21 01:26:44 <ArtForz> pretty interesting stuff really
 192 2011-02-21 01:27:08 <bk128> what's llc?
 193 2011-02-21 01:27:18 <ArtForz> inductor-inductor-capacitor
 194 2011-02-21 01:27:24 <bk128> ok
 195 2011-02-21 01:27:31 molecular has quit (zapp!~molecular@e176117022.adsl.alicedsl.de|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 196 2011-02-21 01:27:35 <bk128> I'm trying to google all this stuff :)
 197 2011-02-21 01:27:57 <ArtForz> yeah
 198 2011-02-21 01:28:03 <ArtForz> theres interesting papers on this stuff
 199 2011-02-21 01:28:32 <ArtForz> especially on high-efficiency resonant converters
 200 2011-02-21 01:28:51 * [Tycho] tried to find a nice newspaper article from 1960-1980, but google doesn't wants to show it :(
 201 2011-02-21 01:29:16 <ArtForz> with special transformer construction >95% efficiency is acheivable
 202 2011-02-21 01:29:20 <bk128> wow
 203 2011-02-21 01:29:28 <ArtForz> nobody does it for ATX PSUs, too expensive
 204 2011-02-21 01:29:33 <andrew12> >doesn't wants
 205 2011-02-21 01:30:02 <[Tycho]> There are "80 PLUS" standarts which include 90+ versions.
 206 2011-02-21 01:30:10 <ArtForz> general solution to transformer efficiency: throw more copper at it
 207 2011-02-21 01:30:39 <[Tycho]> But consumer PSUs usually are less effecient running idle.
 208 2011-02-21 01:30:49 <ArtForz> most PSUs are
 209 2011-02-21 01:30:57 <ArtForz> at idle core losses dominate
 210 2011-02-21 01:31:01 <ArtForz> but those are pretty fixed
 211 2011-02-21 01:31:31 <ArtForz> pretty much only depends on core volume, ferrite material used, max core flux and switching frequency
 212 2011-02-21 01:31:45 <[Tycho]> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS
 213 2011-02-21 01:31:49 <ArtForz> yes
 214 2011-02-21 01:32:18 <[Tycho]> 99% would be better.
 215 2011-02-21 01:33:33 <[Tycho]> Somehow chinese manufacturers managed to create a PSU that fails exactly after one year of use (when warranty is over). I had it too, fanless one. And many people said that their one failed on 13-th month too :)
 216 2011-02-21 01:34:01 <ArtForz> thats just getting lucky
 217 2011-02-21 01:34:01 <[Tycho]> It's very bad because nowadays it's hard to find a fanless PSU.
 218 2011-02-21 01:34:10 <bk128> ArtForz: also, wondering why everyone says xfx sucks.  I have two 5870's running at 850mhz clock at 72 C now
 219 2011-02-21 01:34:15 <bk128> should I expect them to die soon?
 220 2011-02-21 01:34:18 <ArtForz> nah
 221 2011-02-21 01:34:23 <ArtForz> not *all* their cards suck
 222 2011-02-21 01:34:55 <tcatm> I have 3x XFX 5870 running at 900 MHz for 4..5 months non-stop without problems.
 223 2011-02-21 01:34:58 <ArtForz> but they like pulling shady stuff like changing PCB or cooler design without changing model#
 224 2011-02-21 01:35:25 <ArtForz> which doesnt exactly win you lots of friends in the OC community
 225 2011-02-21 01:35:27 Shfork has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 226 2011-02-21 01:35:44 <bk128> okay.
 227 2011-02-21 01:36:13 <TheKid> yeah
 228 2011-02-21 01:36:23 <TheKid> and basically all non reference coolers suck
 229 2011-02-21 01:36:26 <ArtForz> actually I wonder why theres not more fanless PSUs
 230 2011-02-21 01:36:31 <TheKid> though the sapphire vapor-x are good
 231 2011-02-21 01:37:08 <ArtForz> up to 300W or so it should be pretty easy to pull off
 232 2011-02-21 01:38:31 <Kiba> so I heard the bitcoin black market recorded its first transaction
 233 2011-02-21 01:38:44 <Diablo-D3> [08:08:40] -TRIdentica/#techrights- [themadhatter/@themadhatter] Anonymous, Atlas Shrugged, George Washington, Science Fiction, And Disruptive Technologies - http://bit.ly/eiIPGJ #Anonymous #ethics
 234 2011-02-21 01:38:48 <Diablo-D3> which of these do NOT belong
 235 2011-02-21 01:39:17 <Kiba> George Washington
 236 2011-02-21 01:39:27 <Diablo-D3> are you fucking kidding me?
 237 2011-02-21 01:39:31 <Diablo-D3> its Atlas Shrugged
 238 2011-02-21 01:39:44 <Diablo-D3> Atlas Shrugged does not belong mentioned in a list of awesome things
 239 2011-02-21 01:40:10 <Diablo-D3> OH LOOK AT ME, IM NO A WELL FLESHED OUT CHARACTER, IM JUST A CARDBOARD STAND-IN FOR AN IDEA!
 240 2011-02-21 01:40:23 <Diablo-D3> fucking Russians, need to learn how to write
 241 2011-02-21 01:41:50 <TheKid> heh
 242 2011-02-21 01:42:11 <bk128> ArtForz: you never know if a customer is going to have it in a cabinet where ambient is 40+
 243 2011-02-21 01:42:19 <Diablo-D3> bk128: yes you do.
 244 2011-02-21 01:42:26 <Diablo-D3> thats most cabinets in cheap DCs.
 245 2011-02-21 01:42:35 <ArtForz> ?
 246 2011-02-21 01:42:44 <Diablo-D3> hell, thats most cabinets period
 247 2011-02-21 01:42:48 <bk128> dc's?
 248 2011-02-21 01:43:04 <ArtForz> should still be pretty damn easy
 249 2011-02-21 01:43:16 * Diablo-D3 facepalms
 250 2011-02-21 01:43:20 <Diablo-D3> bk128: datacenter you idiot.
 251 2011-02-21 01:43:30 <Diablo-D3> you know what a cabinet is and not a DC?
 252 2011-02-21 01:43:33 <bk128> yeah, but there's airflow
 253 2011-02-21 01:43:42 <bk128> yes I know what a datacenter and rack is
 254 2011-02-21 01:43:47 <comboy> Diablo-D3: any chance for MIT license for your miner?
 255 2011-02-21 01:43:52 <Diablo-D3> comboy: its gpl3.
 256 2011-02-21 01:43:58 <comboy> I know
 257 2011-02-21 01:43:59 <bk128> I was talking about consumers who put their computers in a closed cabinet under a office desk
 258 2011-02-21 01:44:04 <bk128> with no airflow
 259 2011-02-21 01:44:29 <ArtForz> shouldnt matter
 260 2011-02-21 01:44:46 <ArtForz> properly designed the rest of the box will fry before the PSU :P
 261 2011-02-21 01:44:56 <bk128> hmm okay
 262 2011-02-21 01:46:03 <bk128> lol with my cards slush's pool broke 70ghash
 263 2011-02-21 01:46:17 <bk128> but now that I have about .9 ghash I might not need to pool
 264 2011-02-21 01:46:30 <TheKid> heh
 265 2011-02-21 01:46:34 <TheKid> yeah I might try solo mining
 266 2011-02-21 01:46:45 <TheKid> though, ArtForz, can 5970s solo mine effectively?
 267 2011-02-21 01:46:57 <ArtForz> why wouldnt they?
 268 2011-02-21 01:47:01 <TheKid> didn't you say that there was something weird about the onboard crossfire?
 269 2011-02-21 01:47:02 <bk128> ;;bc,stats
 270 2011-02-21 01:47:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109400 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1479 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 20 hours, 34 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47786.43879969
 271 2011-02-21 01:47:07 <TheKid> was worrying about that
 272 2011-02-21 01:47:12 <bk128> you can disable it I think
 273 2011-02-21 01:47:14 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 650000
 274 2011-02-21 01:47:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 650000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 13 seconds
 275 2011-02-21 01:47:26 <ArtForz> variance might be a bit high with a single 5970 solo
 276 2011-02-21 01:47:29 <TheKid> ArtForz: in windows?
 277 2011-02-21 01:47:45 <ArtForz> well, if pooled mining works, so does solo mining
 278 2011-02-21 01:47:46 <TheKid> and yeah I'll most likely be mining on slush's pool or bitpenny
 279 2011-02-21 01:47:49 <TheKid> okay
 280 2011-02-21 01:48:05 <ArtForz> just with a lot more variance in payouts
 281 2011-02-21 01:48:34 <TheKid> yeah I have poor luck anyway :P
 282 2011-02-21 01:48:39 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, one of my fanless PSUs is 350 W and dead one was 500 W
 283 2011-02-21 01:49:03 <ArtForz> that somehow sounds a bit high
 284 2011-02-21 01:49:13 <Diablo-D3> comboy: its gpl because of idiots who think its okay to repackage other's shit for profit
 285 2011-02-21 01:49:33 <Diablo-D3> comboy: theres already bitcoin scammers, Im not going to help them
 286 2011-02-21 01:49:40 <Diablo-D3> [08:39:24] <TheKid> though, ArtForz, can 5970s solo mine effectively?
 287 2011-02-21 01:49:42 Slix` has joined
 288 2011-02-21 01:49:45 <Diablo-D3> TheKid: my 4850 mines effectively
 289 2011-02-21 01:50:50 <comboy> Diablo-D3: ok
 290 2011-02-21 01:51:16 <Diablo-D3> comboy: why do you ask, btw?
 291 2011-02-21 01:51:16 <[Tycho]> Doesn't works w/o luck.
 292 2011-02-21 01:51:23 <comboy> (FYI scammers dont care about license ;)
 293 2011-02-21 01:51:43 <comboy> Diablo-D3: I just like MIT, gpl is like tl;dr for me
 294 2011-02-21 01:51:45 <Diablo-D3> sure, scammers dont, but it means I can destroy them
 295 2011-02-21 01:51:50 <[Tycho]> Slush's pool still shows that my miners never found a block :)
 296 2011-02-21 01:52:09 <Diablo-D3> comboy: gpl is basically mit/bsd with the added clause that it must always remain open source under the gpl
 297 2011-02-21 01:52:09 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
 298 2011-02-21 01:52:09 noagendamarket has joined
 299 2011-02-21 01:52:38 <[Tycho]> I wonder why people say that GPL software is "free"...
 300 2011-02-21 01:52:45 <Diablo-D3> comboy: gpl3 adds strong anti-patent language, asl2 adds similar language to bsd-alikes.
 301 2011-02-21 01:53:02 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: GPL omits exactly one right: the right to make it closed.
 302 2011-02-21 01:53:18 <Diablo-D3> so, its more free than bsd because it can never become un-free.
 303 2011-02-21 01:53:28 <Diablo-D3> at least, this is RMS's argument
 304 2011-02-21 01:53:31 <[Tycho]> No way.
 305 2011-02-21 01:53:34 <comboy> not true
 306 2011-02-21 01:53:48 <comboy> it's free when you can do whatever you want with it
 307 2011-02-21 01:54:02 <Diablo-D3> yes, but making it non-free is counterproductive to the goal of the project
 308 2011-02-21 01:54:03 <comboy> but I understand your concerns, and too lazy to have this discussion again
 309 2011-02-21 01:54:15 <[Tycho]> When code is free, anyone can do anything. But you can't use GPL code in serious projects because it's denied.
 310 2011-02-21 01:54:21 akem has joined
 311 2011-02-21 01:54:21 akem has quit (Changing host)
 312 2011-02-21 01:54:21 akem has joined
 313 2011-02-21 01:54:22 <andrew12> and suddenly the channel dies
 314 2011-02-21 01:54:27 <andrew12> or i'm scrolled up
 315 2011-02-21 01:54:28 <Diablo-D3> it'd be like the US voting itself out of Democracy forever.
 316 2011-02-21 01:54:30 <Diablo-D3> it makes no sense.
 317 2011-02-21 01:54:48 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: erm, except all the serious projects out there are GPL from the ground up
 318 2011-02-21 01:54:51 <Diablo-D3> or GPL compatible
 319 2011-02-21 01:54:57 <comboy> democracy sucks btw
 320 2011-02-21 01:55:00 <Diablo-D3> if its closed source, its not serious and never will be
 321 2011-02-21 01:55:32 <[Tycho]> :)))
 322 2011-02-21 01:55:41 <[Tycho]> You are talking nonsence.
 323 2011-02-21 01:55:45 <Netsniper> open sores
 324 2011-02-21 01:57:35 <xelister> Diablo-D3: actually US is already loosing democracy ;)
 325 2011-02-21 01:57:51 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: no, anyone who claims closed source can be relatively bug free, feature rich, skinny, and secure is a liar.
 326 2011-02-21 01:57:51 <[Tycho]> If you take any random home or office PC (excluding linux-infected), there is rarely any open-source software. May be Quake or Miranda IM.
 327 2011-02-21 01:58:54 <Diablo-D3> one a project gets bigger than what 3 people can manage, closed source techniques screw it over
 328 2011-02-21 01:58:54 <[Tycho]> Open source software is free of bugs ? Oh, please, bug trackers are full of them.
 329 2011-02-21 01:58:56 <Diablo-D3> every. single. time.
 330 2011-02-21 01:59:23 <Diablo-D3> for every bug your average linux base install has, windows has a dozen.
 331 2011-02-21 01:59:27 <Diablo-D3> so yeah, thats pretty bug free.
 332 2011-02-21 01:59:35 <Diablo-D3> foss also has a much faster bug turn around.
 333 2011-02-21 01:59:41 <Diablo-D3> even faster if its a security issue
 334 2011-02-21 01:59:44 <[Tycho]> There is a difference - you can work on a windows pc.
 335 2011-02-21 01:59:49 <xelister> well, linux sound suck donkey balls
 336 2011-02-21 01:59:50 <Diablo-D3> actually, no, I cant
 337 2011-02-21 01:59:56 <Diablo-D3> I find windows extremely difficult to work with
 338 2011-02-21 02:00:10 <[Tycho]> And linux is impossible to work with.
 339 2011-02-21 02:00:14 <Diablo-D3> I never understood why they centered around a mouse for an inherently text-based interface.
 340 2011-02-21 02:00:32 <Diablo-D3> it makes everything take 10 times longer
 341 2011-02-21 02:00:36 <xelister> [Tycho]: you can use this argument to win. you have to re-paste it, Diablo-D3 pretends he ignores me ;)   linux sounds system is crap
 342 2011-02-21 02:00:40 * comboy feels pretty bad about asking this license question, I'm really sorry
 343 2011-02-21 02:00:40 <Diablo-D3> and not having a working shell in the box isnt really helpful either
 344 2011-02-21 02:00:45 Bits has joined
 345 2011-02-21 02:00:46 <comboy> *sad
 346 2011-02-21 02:00:51 <[Tycho]> Using mouse makes everything much faster.
 347 2011-02-21 02:00:59 <Diablo-D3> how so?
 348 2011-02-21 02:01:08 <doublec> polictics, religion and license debates. three things to avoid discussing...
 349 2011-02-21 02:01:09 <[Tycho]> You can click things :)
 350 2011-02-21 02:01:09 <xelister> [Tycho]: using mouse is slow and clunky
 351 2011-02-21 02:01:28 <Diablo-D3> do rename "s/foo/bar/" halfthefiles* with a mouse.
 352 2011-02-21 02:01:33 <Necr0s> using crystal meth makes everything much faster
 353 2011-02-21 02:01:45 <Blitzboom> it’s unbelievable we still use either mouse or keyboard im 2011 anyway
 354 2011-02-21 02:01:49 Bits has quit (Client Quit)
 355 2011-02-21 02:02:04 <Necr0s> ^
 356 2011-02-21 02:02:08 <xelister> Blitzboom: what you propose
 357 2011-02-21 02:02:30 <Necr0s> At least give us 2 mice for something different.
 358 2011-02-21 02:02:34 <[Tycho]> Select 10 of 300 mp3 files with keyboard :)
 359 2011-02-21 02:02:36 mmarker has joined
 360 2011-02-21 02:02:39 <Necr0s> 2 cursors.  one for each hand.
 361 2011-02-21 02:02:48 <validus> screw that. gimme keyboard
 362 2011-02-21 02:02:48 <comboy> xelister: http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_headset_that_reads_your_brainwaves.html
 363 2011-02-21 02:02:59 <xelister> comboy: "BOOBIES"
 364 2011-02-21 02:03:01 <bk128> someone is seriously arguing mice are better?
 365 2011-02-21 02:03:02 <xelister> yes we really need that
 366 2011-02-21 02:03:10 mmarker has quit (Client Quit)
 367 2011-02-21 02:03:13 <validus> sounds trollicious
 368 2011-02-21 02:03:14 <Diablo-D3> bk128: windows idiots
 369 2011-02-21 02:03:16 <validus> im going to watch a movie lol
 370 2011-02-21 02:03:25 <xelister> mouse is usually the bad choice
 371 2011-02-21 02:03:25 <Diablo-D3> the only thing mice are good for is actual GUIs and games.
 372 2011-02-21 02:03:30 <Necr0s> And why don't we have multi-user GUIs yet?
 373 2011-02-21 02:03:35 Syke_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 374 2011-02-21 02:03:36 <comboy> xelister: nothing can beat them
 375 2011-02-21 02:03:44 <Necr0s> Where 2 people can control a single desktop, each wityh their own set of imput devices.
 376 2011-02-21 02:03:46 <xelister> comboy: well, keyboards are game for fps games
 377 2011-02-21 02:03:50 <Diablo-D3> Necr0s: erm, we can
 378 2011-02-21 02:03:55 <xelister> Necr0s: possible to do it
 379 2011-02-21 02:03:56 <validus> um there is
 380 2011-02-21 02:03:56 <Necr0s> Each can take control of any window, etc.
 381 2011-02-21 02:04:00 <validus> its called google.com
 382 2011-02-21 02:04:05 <Diablo-D3> hell, Im already doing that to remote control my laptop
 383 2011-02-21 02:04:06 <validus> id bother searching
 384 2011-02-21 02:04:14 <Necr0s> How do?
 385 2011-02-21 02:04:14 <tcatm> Necr0s: Xorg can do that.
 386 2011-02-21 02:04:35 <validus> theres a crap ton of remote desktop for windows to
 387 2011-02-21 02:04:39 <comboy> xelister: dvorak, gentoo, awesome-wm, I'm too happy to argue :)
 388 2011-02-21 02:04:40 <tcatm> xinput create-master and add input devices
 389 2011-02-21 02:04:47 <Necr0s> hmm.
 390 2011-02-21 02:05:00 <Necr0s> neat.
 391 2011-02-21 02:05:00 <xelister> comboy: hm?  you cant play FPS  point and shoot  game without a mouse
 392 2011-02-21 02:05:00 Syke_ has joined
 393 2011-02-21 02:05:06 <xelister> effectivly
 394 2011-02-21 02:05:11 <xelister> well you could, but then you play it
 395 2011-02-21 02:05:16 <validus> ncurses ftw
 396 2011-02-21 02:05:16 <xelister> like all this PlayStation fags
 397 2011-02-21 02:05:23 <comboy> xelister: you must have mixed some discussion thread
 398 2011-02-21 02:05:31 <xelister> keyboards-vs-mouse
 399 2011-02-21 02:05:35 <xelister> mouse wins in FPS games
 400 2011-02-21 02:05:52 <comboy> yeah, I was not in that discussion when you said something about fps to me
 401 2011-02-21 02:05:55 <Necr0s> Wach has its place.
 402 2011-02-21 02:05:57 <Necr0s> of course.
 403 2011-02-21 02:06:04 <Necr0s> We all need both.
 404 2011-02-21 02:06:10 <validus> need both what
 405 2011-02-21 02:06:11 <Necr0s> usually
 406 2011-02-21 02:06:24 <Necr0s> both of the ubiquitous imput devices.
 407 2011-02-21 02:06:29 <validus> nope
 408 2011-02-21 02:06:36 <validus> i can run a pc effective and efficient with no mouse
 409 2011-02-21 02:06:39 <validus> espically linux
 410 2011-02-21 02:06:42 <Necr0s> You can, but do you?
 411 2011-02-21 02:06:46 <validus> in linux yes
 412 2011-02-21 02:06:49 <validus> windows 1/2
 413 2011-02-21 02:06:53 <Necr0s> But you have a mouse, no?
 414 2011-02-21 02:07:02 <validus> this isnt a qeustion fo ownership
 415 2011-02-21 02:07:09 <validus> its the question if i really need it and the answer is no
 416 2011-02-21 02:07:18 <Necr0s> Best to have both on hand IMO.
 417 2011-02-21 02:07:35 <validus> you want 1 for each hand. how will you type? onscreen keyboards?
 418 2011-02-21 02:07:37 <validus> lol
 419 2011-02-21 02:07:45 <Necr0s> No reason you can't have 2 mine and a kb.
 420 2011-02-21 02:07:48 <Necr0s> mice
 421 2011-02-21 02:07:51 <comboy> I use joystick only
 422 2011-02-21 02:08:00 * tcatm prefers trackpoints
 423 2011-02-21 02:08:11 <Necr0s> With 2 mouse cursors you can do all that stretch, rotate kind of stuff you see on touchscreen devices.
 424 2011-02-21 02:08:23 <Necr0s> and who knows what else.  It's not been really explored.
 425 2011-02-21 02:08:34 <validus> that would be hardcore annoying. counter productive and expensive
 426 2011-02-21 02:08:41 <Necr0s> But I'm sure some game could find a neat way to use it.
 427 2011-02-21 02:08:50 <validus> ya its called wasd
 428 2011-02-21 02:09:10 <Necr0s> been there, done that.
 429 2011-02-21 02:09:20 <Necr0s> I'm talking about new things.
 430 2011-02-21 02:09:32 <validus> type with your tongue. or learn how to tell what keys are pressed by sound
 431 2011-02-21 02:09:40 <Necr0s> Things yet unimagined.
 432 2011-02-21 02:10:17 <tcatm> most humans can't move two mice at the same time, let alone in different directions at different speeds (needed for emulating multitouch rotation)
 433 2011-02-21 02:10:46 <Necr0s> Yeah, that would feel a little weird.
 434 2011-02-21 02:10:47 <validus> itd fail hard
 435 2011-02-21 02:11:15 <validus> design a driver for xbox 360 controllers to use the keyboard attachment on pc . there you go
 436 2011-02-21 02:11:16 <validus> a new idea
 437 2011-02-21 02:11:19 <comboy> hmm ArtForz, you around? the kernel in Diablo's miner is yours right? if so, is there any separate license for it?
 438 2011-02-21 02:11:25 <Necr0s> But in any case, I think that the paradigm that computer input should consist of 1 keyboard and 1 mouse ought to be challenged a bit.
 439 2011-02-21 02:11:45 <Necr0s> Look what Nintendo did with their Wii device.
 440 2011-02-21 02:11:59 <validus> you can use a wii mote as a mouse
 441 2011-02-21 02:12:03 <validus> open source drivers iirc
 442 2011-02-21 02:12:22 <Necr0s> And these multitouch smartphones are doing cool new things with input.
 443 2011-02-21 02:12:29 <validus> theres multitouch pcs to
 444 2011-02-21 02:12:32 <validus> my ex just got one
 445 2011-02-21 02:12:32 <Necr0s> with accelerometers and such as well.
 446 2011-02-21 02:12:54 <Necr0s> Yeah, wiimote is bluetooth I believe.
 447 2011-02-21 02:12:55 <validus> it sounds like your really young or living very seclued
 448 2011-02-21 02:12:57 <tcatm> multitouch on smartphones is the worst thing ever.
 449 2011-02-21 02:13:01 <validus> secluded*
 450 2011-02-21 02:13:05 <Necr0s> Yay standards.
 451 2011-02-21 02:13:14 <Necr0s> moi?
 452 2011-02-21 02:13:18 <validus> ya
 453 2011-02-21 02:13:18 <Necr0s> heh
 454 2011-02-21 02:13:30 <validus> cuz everything you've mentioned pretty much exists
 455 2011-02-21 02:13:38 <validus> im sure you could probably trick your os into using 2 mouses if you really wanted
 456 2011-02-21 02:13:51 <validus> never tried it cuz . well it sounds retarded
 457 2011-02-21 02:13:55 <tcatm> Just pressing "virtual" buttons on a touchscreen requires holding the phone with both hands *and* looking at the screen.
 458 2011-02-21 02:13:55 <andrew12> necrodearia: what was the link for the block duration api?
 459 2011-02-21 02:14:11 <validus> tcatm: my phone dials #'s. thats it :P
 460 2011-02-21 02:14:27 <validus> no touch. no email. no web. no keyboard. nodda
 461 2011-02-21 02:14:38 <tcatm> no keyboard? :)
 462 2011-02-21 02:14:59 <Necr0s> I don't hold mine with both hands to type.
 463 2011-02-21 02:15:01 <validus> keypad for #'s. screw text msgs. ppl can txt msg me here. actually my brothers already do. they know to find me on irc
 464 2011-02-21 02:15:07 <[Tycho]> There are drivers to use two mouses with two pointers in windows. First one appeared for playing two-player Arcanoid game :)
 465 2011-02-21 02:15:38 <andrew12> [Tycho]: how old is that game? i've seen it in a game called ricochet a while ago
 466 2011-02-21 02:15:42 alystair has joined
 467 2011-02-21 02:15:59 <Necr0s> arkanoid is pretty old.
 468 2011-02-21 02:16:02 <validus> lots of games recognize 2 controllers. it should do 2 mice the same in theory
 469 2011-02-21 02:16:10 <Necr0s> I played it on an Apple IIGS if that says anything.
 470 2011-02-21 02:16:13 <validus> look at shank. you cant play that game without a controller
 471 2011-02-21 02:16:43 <validus> get a microphone and some new software and just tell your pc what to do
 472 2011-02-21 02:16:53 <[Tycho]> If you just plug two mouses in windows, they both will control same pointer.
 473 2011-02-21 02:17:03 <validus> im sure thered be a way to modify it
 474 2011-02-21 02:17:20 <[Tycho]> There is.
 475 2011-02-21 02:18:02 <validus> if someone tried to sell me a pc with 2 mice hooked up id be looking for the Made In (insert some weird name here) tag
 476 2011-02-21 02:18:18 <validus> id use em as nunchukus
 477 2011-02-21 02:18:20 <validus> lol
 478 2011-02-21 02:18:20 <Diablo-D3> china
 479 2011-02-21 02:18:25 <Diablo-D3> its ALL made in china
 480 2011-02-21 02:18:39 <validus> i broke one of my snes controllers using it as a nunchuku :/
 481 2011-02-21 02:25:24 jrabbit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 482 2011-02-21 02:28:34 <comboy> Diablo-D3: since you around, do you know about this kernel license? is it separate than the rest of your miner?
 483 2011-02-21 02:29:49 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 484 2011-02-21 02:29:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109408 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1471 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 7 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47963.61337874
 485 2011-02-21 02:30:02 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 110000
 486 2011-02-21 02:30:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 110000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 26 minutes, and 22 seconds
 487 2011-02-21 02:31:42 <Diablo-D3> comboy: its GPL3
 488 2011-02-21 02:31:47 <xelister> LobsterMan: the diff may change during this time though
 489 2011-02-21 02:31:52 <comboy> Diablo-D3: thx
 490 2011-02-21 02:31:59 <Diablo-D3> comboy: m0 also uses an almost identical kernel
 491 2011-02-21 02:32:00 <LobsterMan> i know
 492 2011-02-21 02:32:03 <Diablo-D3> not sure what he licensed it under
 493 2011-02-21 02:32:13 <LobsterMan> the last estimated diff was 49000 when i last checked a few days ago
 494 2011-02-21 02:32:31 <comboy> Diablo-D3: he has pretty vague "public domain" phrase and that's all in his LICENSE file
 495 2011-02-21 02:33:26 <Diablo-D3> comboy: for the kernel or the whole miner?
 496 2011-02-21 02:33:57 <comboy> Diablo-D3: whole miner I guess since it's in repo with it
 497 2011-02-21 02:34:22 <necrodearia> andrew12, http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/movingaverages.php?l=3 ---- l == last  and defaults to 10000 if unspecified or less than 1
 498 2011-02-21 02:35:31 <andrew12> necrodearia: thanks
 499 2011-02-21 02:36:11 <Diablo-D3> comboy: eww.
 500 2011-02-21 02:36:47 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 501 2011-02-21 02:38:05 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 502 2011-02-21 02:38:18 <bk128> Diablo-D3: running those 2 5870's on a debian box with -f 1 and -w 64 (also tried -w 128)  and getting about 600 mhash/sec.  is it less because I'm in a pool and it has to wait a bit for blocks?
 503 2011-02-21 02:38:59 <Diablo-D3> bk128: if you're benchmarking, do it on a local bitcoind
 504 2011-02-21 02:39:12 <bk128> Diablo-D3: ok thanks.
 505 2011-02-21 02:39:13 <Diablo-D3> and 2 5870s should be about, eh, 630-640
 506 2011-02-21 02:39:23 <Diablo-D3> and leave it run for about 15 minutes and use the second number
 507 2011-02-21 02:39:38 <Diablo-D3> and -w 64 is faster
 508 2011-02-21 02:39:48 <Diablo-D3> just make sure you're on 10.10 or 10.11, and sdk 2.1
 509 2011-02-21 02:39:53 <bk128> what are the two numbers again?
 510 2011-02-21 02:39:59 <Diablo-D3> 15 second avg, forever avg
 511 2011-02-21 02:40:04 <bk128> I just used the debian fglrx and sdk2.1
 512 2011-02-21 02:40:07 <bk128> ok
 513 2011-02-21 02:40:29 <Diablo-D3> not sure what debian sid has atm
 514 2011-02-21 02:40:43 <Diablo-D3> Ive been pulling stuff out of deb exp to test new versions
 515 2011-02-21 02:40:47 <Diablo-D3> it has 11.2 now
 516 2011-02-21 02:41:28 <bk128> ok.  seems to be working fine
 517 2011-02-21 02:42:43 jrabbit has joined
 518 2011-02-21 02:42:50 <Diablo-D3> what are you getting for speed?
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 522 2011-02-21 02:43:41 <bk128> yeah it's a dedicated box.
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 536 2011-02-21 03:01:20 <bk128> what's the clock range for the 5870?  tried aticonfig -od-setclocks=900,800 --adapter=all but it says values aren't valid
 537 2011-02-21 03:02:31 <TheKid> mem clock needs to be higher
 538 2011-02-21 03:02:35 <TheKid> use 1200
 539 2011-02-21 03:02:36 <TheKid> that's stock
 540 2011-02-21 03:02:39 <bk128> okay
 541 2011-02-21 03:03:12 <comboy> 900 is better for mem
 542 2011-02-21 03:03:44 <bk128> yeah, but you have to hack it to lower the mem clock
 543 2011-02-21 03:03:51 * [Tycho] uses 1000 for memory
 544 2011-02-21 03:03:57 <bk128> did you change the bios?
 545 2011-02-21 03:04:00 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 1000000
 546 2011-02-21 03:04:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1 day, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 54 seconds
 547 2011-02-21 03:04:14 <[Tycho]> 930 for gpu
 548 2011-02-21 03:04:22 <[Tycho]> Usually it runs fine at 950
 549 2011-02-21 03:04:27 <comboy> bk128: hmm on my 5870 I set memclock 900 without hacking..
 550 2011-02-21 03:05:00 <comboy> you can see range of possible clocks with --odgc
 551 2011-02-21 03:05:12 TheKid has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 552 2011-02-21 03:05:22 <xelister> fucking high difficulty
 553 2011-02-21 03:05:38 <bk128> won't even let me set gpu clock above 900
 554 2011-02-21 03:05:47 <comboy> xelister: it's gonna look so low in a month
 555 2011-02-21 03:05:55 <echelon> wooh, won back my losses on btcsportsbet ^_^
 556 2011-02-21 03:06:02 <xelister> fucking high difficulty increasing speed
 557 2011-02-21 03:06:30 <comboy> true, true
 558 2011-02-21 03:07:20 <citiz3n> you run your 5870 GPU core at 950?
 559 2011-02-21 03:07:40 <citiz3n> are you overvolting it?
 560 2011-02-21 03:08:11 <[Tycho]> Overvolting is not needed it such low frequency.
 561 2011-02-21 03:08:15 <[Tycho]> *at
 562 2011-02-21 03:08:30 <citiz3n> that's nice to know
 563 2011-02-21 03:08:43 <Diablo-D3> [09:53:58] <bk128> what's the clock range for the 5870?  tried aticonfig -od-setclocks=900,800 --adapter=all but it says values aren't valid
 564 2011-02-21 03:08:44 <citiz3n> you must be getting like 355 mhash/s
 565 2011-02-21 03:08:52 <[Tycho]> Actually overvolting is not needed for 5870 at all.
 566 2011-02-21 03:08:53 <Diablo-D3> bk128: aticonfig --odgc
 567 2011-02-21 03:08:56 <Diablo-D3> bk128: lists shit.
 568 2011-02-21 03:09:09 <citiz3n> linux or windows?
 569 2011-02-21 03:09:20 <bk128> Diablo-D3: is it easy to hack it?
 570 2011-02-21 03:09:30 <[Tycho]> I'm getting ~344 at 930 MHz. Windows, of course.
 571 2011-02-21 03:09:31 <Diablo-D3> bk128: hack what?
 572 2011-02-21 03:09:38 <bk128> the gpu bios
 573 2011-02-21 03:09:42 <citiz3n> hmm
 574 2011-02-21 03:09:45 <Diablo-D3> why would you need to?
 575 2011-02-21 03:09:48 <citiz3n> i get 344 at 900mhz
 576 2011-02-21 03:09:58 <bk128> get about 900mhz clock and slow down the memory clock
 577 2011-02-21 03:10:05 <[Tycho]> 3 miners running at a time.
 578 2011-02-21 03:10:14 <citiz3n> what program are you using to tune them?
 579 2011-02-21 03:10:14 <bk128> above* not about
 580 2011-02-21 03:10:16 <Diablo-D3> bk128: you cant drive the memory at tha tlow of a clock at that voltage
 581 2011-02-21 03:10:18 <bk128> aticonfig
 582 2011-02-21 03:10:25 <bk128> art says he does
 583 2011-02-21 03:10:27 <Diablo-D3> bk128: and you cant undervolt the memory effectively with the gpu at full voltage
 584 2011-02-21 03:10:35 <Diablo-D3> AAAAND
 585 2011-02-21 03:10:40 <bk128> not undervolt, underclock
 586 2011-02-21 03:10:41 <Diablo-D3> the memory doesnt use much power
 587 2011-02-21 03:10:56 <[Tycho]> Memory at 1000.
 588 2011-02-21 03:10:57 <Diablo-D3> [10:02:54] <Diablo-D3> bk128: you cant drive the memory at that low of a clock at that voltage
 589 2011-02-21 03:10:58 <Blitzboom> 5870 here too. overclocked to 925
 590 2011-02-21 03:11:02 <Diablo-D3> he clocks the memory as low as it goes
 591 2011-02-21 03:11:04 <Diablo-D3> thats about it
 592 2011-02-21 03:11:06 <Blitzboom> >330 mhash/s
 593 2011-02-21 03:11:11 <Diablo-D3> I dont think hes undervolting the memory
 594 2011-02-21 03:11:24 <bk128> my xfx card says memory range is 1200-1300 and gpu max is 600-900
 595 2011-02-21 03:11:40 <bk128> i'm not talking about changing voltage at all
 596 2011-02-21 03:11:46 <Blitzboom> PC’s completely lagfree though
 597 2011-02-21 03:11:51 <xelister> anyone here uses freenet?
 598 2011-02-21 03:11:52 <Blitzboom> which is awesome
 599 2011-02-21 03:12:00 <xelister> *anyone else
 600 2011-02-21 03:12:09 <[Tycho]> ATI's utulity allows 900-1400 for 5870 memory and 600-1200 for GPU
 601 2011-02-21 03:12:25 <bk128> [Tycho]: not on this card.
 602 2011-02-21 03:12:34 <validus> theres 3rd party apps to
 603 2011-02-21 03:12:40 <[Tycho]> 1000-1500 memory and 550-1000 GPU for 5970
 604 2011-02-21 03:12:40 <citiz3n> that's not the catalyst control center
 605 2011-02-21 03:12:43 <validus> i did theirs cuz it said "auto"
 606 2011-02-21 03:12:47 <citiz3n> must be a different utility, tycho
 607 2011-02-21 03:12:55 <Blitzboom> anyone overvolting?
 608 2011-02-21 03:12:56 <validus> and i read results that it actually workerd rather suprising well
 609 2011-02-21 03:13:00 <[Tycho]> Yes, i'm talking about reference.
 610 2011-02-21 03:13:01 <bk128> it's aticonfig with fglrx on debian
 611 2011-02-21 03:13:03 luke-jr_ has joined
 612 2011-02-21 03:13:30 <[Tycho]> Overvolting is a key to overheating and power/VRM problems.
 613 2011-02-21 03:13:39 <citiz3n> what's the name of the tool so i can look it up?
 614 2011-02-21 03:13:51 <citiz3n> ATItool?
 615 2011-02-21 03:13:51 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: factory overclocked shit changes those values
 616 2011-02-21 03:13:57 <Diablo-D3> aticonfig just reads it out of the bios
 617 2011-02-21 03:14:03 luke-jr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 618 2011-02-21 03:14:16 <validus> i dont know if its windows or linux etc, and i think it was extremeoverlcockers.net or .com or something like that
 619 2011-02-21 03:14:21 <validus> ill see if i can find it
 620 2011-02-21 03:14:25 <Diablo-D3> its for windows
 621 2011-02-21 03:14:35 <validus> most of their crapt is
 622 2011-02-21 03:14:35 <Diablo-D3> you cant really screw with voltages under linux
 623 2011-02-21 03:14:39 <Diablo-D3> and thats really useless anyhow
 624 2011-02-21 03:14:41 <validus> god forbid they make super great drivers for linux
 625 2011-02-21 03:14:45 <Diablo-D3> unless you're art, dont fuck with it
 626 2011-02-21 03:15:01 jlk102935908a has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 627 2011-02-21 03:15:07 <validus> actually i take that back. some work some dont. it depends but god does it suck when they dont
 628 2011-02-21 03:15:21 <validus> thats seriously altering my next gpu decisions
 629 2011-02-21 03:15:35 <Diablo-D3> validus: nvidia wont be around much longer
 630 2011-02-21 03:15:38 <Diablo-D3> its not like you HAVE a choice
 631 2011-02-21 03:16:06 <validus> when ppl with an intel gma are getting better driver support on their puny assnetbooks than my pc was. theres problems
 632 2011-02-21 03:16:13 <validus> i dont see nvidia going anywhere i dont see ati going anywhere
 633 2011-02-21 03:16:27 <validus> ive just had some extreme problems with ati's drivers on my linux box for hardware accelleration
 634 2011-02-21 03:16:33 mmarker has joined
 635 2011-02-21 03:16:48 <Blitzboom> if bitcoin turns out to be successful, nvidia will be fucked
 636 2011-02-21 03:16:50 <validus> but im not set in stone on what im getting yet either. so i may or may not
 637 2011-02-21 03:16:56 <mmarker> Ok, so I think slapping in ARM NEON intrinsics into the current 4way SSE2 code is cheap.
 638 2011-02-21 03:17:02 <mmarker> But it works.
 639 2011-02-21 03:17:09 <validus> Blitzboom: you do realize that there is only a certain amount of bitcoins
 640 2011-02-21 03:17:10 <mmarker> I think
 641 2011-02-21 03:17:14 <Blitzboom> i do, validus
 642 2011-02-21 03:17:20 <validus> im curious what happens next. but its been said every year
 643 2011-02-21 03:17:27 <Blitzboom> but if it turns out to be successful, that’s going to happen soon
 644 2011-02-21 03:17:28 <xelister> Blitzboom: still Ati's drivers suck more in practice
 645 2011-02-21 03:17:30 <validus> oh amd is gonna die out. intel is gonna die out. same argument with video
 646 2011-02-21 03:18:00 <Diablo-D3> [10:08:44] <validus> when ppl with an intel gma are getting better driver support on their puny assnetbooks than my pc was. theres problems
 647 2011-02-21 03:18:01 <validus> if you do real world animation, rendering, CAD, its worth a $1000 intel
 648 2011-02-21 03:18:02 <Diablo-D3> no they arent
 649 2011-02-21 03:18:06 <Diablo-D3> they really really arent
 650 2011-02-21 03:18:23 <validus> it trumps amd's double fold in benchmarks. but like 5% of ppl are doing that with em
 651 2011-02-21 03:18:24 <validus> heh
 652 2011-02-21 03:18:27 darsk1ez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 653 2011-02-21 03:18:36 <validus> thats cpu btw, not gpu
 654 2011-02-21 03:18:38 RBecker is now known as Jwoww
 655 2011-02-21 03:18:39 <Diablo-D3> intel windows drivers are almighty shit
 656 2011-02-21 03:18:42 Jwoww is now known as RBecker
 657 2011-02-21 03:18:46 <validus> Diablo-D3: their drivers worked great same linux distro.
 658 2011-02-21 03:18:55 <Diablo-D3> intel doesnt have linux drivers
 659 2011-02-21 03:18:55 darsk1ez has joined
 660 2011-02-21 03:19:00 <Diablo-D3> linux does.
 661 2011-02-21 03:19:06 <validus> they had intel gma on their linux box using hw accelleration
 662 2011-02-21 03:19:13 <validus> linux book rather. not box lol
 663 2011-02-21 03:19:17 <Diablo-D3> yes, using drivers we wrote ourselves.
 664 2011-02-21 03:19:21 <[Tycho]> Intel creates best CPUs :)
 665 2011-02-21 03:19:27 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: not even
 666 2011-02-21 03:19:30 <Diablo-D3> they're rather shit
 667 2011-02-21 03:19:37 <validus> i spent 47 + hrs till i got ati's to finally acknowledge it
 668 2011-02-21 03:19:42 <validus> and only in xbmc. not mplayer vaapi
 669 2011-02-21 03:19:54 <[Tycho]> AMD is for gamers, overclockers and mostly poor people.
 670 2011-02-21 03:19:55 <validus> id idnt sleep for almost 3 days
 671 2011-02-21 03:20:07 <Diablo-D3> validus: erm, mplayer vaapi works fine for me
 672 2011-02-21 03:20:17 <Diablo-D3> validus: you just gotta install the libva backend for fglrx
 673 2011-02-21 03:20:18 <validus> intel and amd is neck and neck besides certain benchmarks. if you take results of top of the line of both
 674 2011-02-21 03:20:29 <validus> oh its past that diablo: i had to get mplayer-vaapi
 675 2011-02-21 03:20:36 <validus> released dec 2010
 676 2011-02-21 03:20:38 <Diablo-D3> validus: its pointless because the hardware only does bluray profile (not even full high profile)
 677 2011-02-21 03:20:45 <validus> and the website was down when i found it on top of it
 678 2011-02-21 03:20:49 <Diablo-D3> mplayer upstream refuses to merge libva patches
 679 2011-02-21 03:20:56 <validus> mplayer vaapi does work for mkv's
 680 2011-02-21 03:20:58 <Diablo-D3> even though libva _is the official xorg/fdo api for this shit_
 681 2011-02-21 03:21:02 <validus> i got it to work. just almost 50 damn hours later
 682 2011-02-21 03:21:04 <Diablo-D3> validus: read what I wrote
 683 2011-02-21 03:21:08 <Diablo-D3> it only works for _some_ h264.
 684 2011-02-21 03:21:15 <mmarker> Son of a bitch. Who writes intrinsics where I can't set each vector to a seperate value
 685 2011-02-21 03:21:16 <Diablo-D3> the hardware only accelerates specific h264 ops.
 686 2011-02-21 03:21:22 * mmarker goes to shoot someone in the face
 687 2011-02-21 03:21:28 <validus> same with dxva
 688 2011-02-21 03:21:34 <Diablo-D3> up, same issue
 689 2011-02-21 03:21:35 <validus> but i was on a p4 then. i coudlnt watch 720p without hw accelleration
 690 2011-02-21 03:21:45 <Diablo-D3> yup
 691 2011-02-21 03:21:49 <validus> windows would. linux wouldnt. and it was ati drivers that caused it
 692 2011-02-21 03:21:51 <validus> that pissed me off
 693 2011-02-21 03:21:51 <validus> lol
 694 2011-02-21 03:22:31 <validus> BUT i was successful in the end
 695 2011-02-21 03:22:36 <validus> even though it took xbma to do it
 696 2011-02-21 03:22:39 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 697 2011-02-21 03:22:54 <Diablo-D3> validus: well, like I said, mplayer-vaapi works for me.
 698 2011-02-21 03:22:58 <validus> but i had the town 720p playing smooth
 699 2011-02-21 03:23:08 <Diablo-D3> but most of my videos, obviously, wont play on hw accel
 700 2011-02-21 03:23:11 <validus> the first i heard of mplayer-vaapi, their site was down, then it finally came back
 701 2011-02-21 03:23:12 <Diablo-D3> because they're not bluray profile
 702 2011-02-21 03:23:15 jlk102935908a has joined
 703 2011-02-21 03:23:19 <validus> i had to compile it 18 times from gcc faults
 704 2011-02-21 03:23:23 <hacim> what is vaapi
 705 2011-02-21 03:23:23 <validus> which i later found out why but thats ok lol
 706 2011-02-21 03:23:27 <Diablo-D3> hacim: libVA
 707 2011-02-21 03:23:39 <Diablo-D3> hacim: the official video accel api by xorg and fdo.
 708 2011-02-21 03:23:43 <validus> things just refused to work
 709 2011-02-21 03:23:47 <validus> so it was 1/2 pc and 1/2 driver
 710 2011-02-21 03:23:51 <hacim> huh
 711 2011-02-21 03:23:59 <Diablo-D3> validus: generally, it usually will refuse to work on any hardware accelerator
 712 2011-02-21 03:24:03 <Diablo-D3> validus: h264 is a crock of shit
 713 2011-02-21 03:24:08 <hacim> why isn't that just in regular mplayer?
 714 2011-02-21 03:24:18 <Diablo-D3> hacim: they reufse to merge the patches
 715 2011-02-21 03:24:23 <validus> well considering dec 2010 release date. its great its there but damn. that long
 716 2011-02-21 03:24:25 <Diablo-D3> they merged the fucking useless nvidia api instead
 717 2011-02-21 03:24:27 <Diablo-D3> which no one uses
 718 2011-02-21 03:24:37 <Diablo-D3> and libva has a backend for nvidia's shit too
 719 2011-02-21 03:24:49 <validus> i aint paying high dollar for problems
 720 2011-02-21 03:24:55 <Diablo-D3> h264 is basically 4 standards
 721 2011-02-21 03:24:59 <Diablo-D3> all different
 722 2011-02-21 03:25:06 <validus> but im not talking just h264. drivers in general
 723 2011-02-21 03:25:11 <mmarker> It's a standard, what do you expect
 724 2011-02-21 03:25:12 <Diablo-D3> you can write a decoder that does EVERY SINGLE FEATURE, but theres a lot of redundant shit
 725 2011-02-21 03:25:21 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: theora doesnt have this issue, vp8 doesnt.
 726 2011-02-21 03:25:29 <Diablo-D3> no redundant duplicitive features.
 727 2011-02-21 03:25:31 <mmarker> Diablo: But they ain't standards. :D
 728 2011-02-21 03:25:43 <validus> set your own standard
 729 2011-02-21 03:25:46 <Diablo-D3> no, they're not patented. theres a difference.
 730 2011-02-21 03:25:46 <validus> dont be a sheep :/
 731 2011-02-21 03:25:48 SantoC has joined
 732 2011-02-21 03:25:51 <validus> :P
 733 2011-02-21 03:26:11 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: It's more of a crack on standard-by-committee, which is usually a recipe for disaster.
 734 2011-02-21 03:26:23 <mmarker> Ok, nix usually, most always.
 735 2011-02-21 03:26:31 <validus> who is anyone to tell you what you can use or not use
 736 2011-02-21 03:26:31 <Diablo-D3> like I said
 737 2011-02-21 03:26:35 <Diablo-D3> nvidia and ati both
 738 2011-02-21 03:26:38 <Diablo-D3> they decode only what blurays use
 739 2011-02-21 03:26:42 <Diablo-D3> which is a subset of high profile
 740 2011-02-21 03:27:03 <validus> i havent got into blu rays so i dont know all that yet, i do know ppl than burn their own and rip them though
 741 2011-02-21 03:27:15 <validus> cost of bd dl's is just retarded
 742 2011-02-21 03:27:23 <mmarker> Grr, back to my arm problem., I should not need to grep the compiler source code for info on how to use this POS
 743 2011-02-21 03:27:30 * mmarker looks for a bat
 744 2011-02-21 03:27:39 <Diablo-D3> validus: its the ripping process thats a problem
 745 2011-02-21 03:27:47 <Diablo-D3> most rippers use all of high profile, and then other features
 746 2011-02-21 03:28:39 <Diablo-D3> also, lets say you watch iphone compat shit
 747 2011-02-21 03:28:41 <Diablo-D3> thats main profile
 748 2011-02-21 03:28:49 <Diablo-D3> high profile decoders cant decode it
 749 2011-02-21 03:28:55 <Diablo-D3> and iphones cant decode main profile
 750 2011-02-21 03:29:03 <Diablo-D3> er they cant high
 751 2011-02-21 03:29:19 <Diablo-D3> and then theres a profile below main called baseline
 752 2011-02-21 03:29:30 <Diablo-D3> and main-only deocders cant do baseline
 753 2011-02-21 03:29:31 <Diablo-D3> etc etc
 754 2011-02-21 03:29:34 <Diablo-D3> its all massive bullshit
 755 2011-02-21 03:29:43 <Diablo-D3> at least with ffmpeg I can do every fucking single feature in the whole fucking thing
 756 2011-02-21 03:29:48 <Diablo-D3> shit that no one else even implements
 757 2011-02-21 03:30:31 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 758 2011-02-21 03:31:04 <Diablo-D3> so no, vaapi isnt even that interesting to me
 759 2011-02-21 03:31:54 <Diablo-D3> thats why I dont bother using it, most of my shit just wont work with it
 760 2011-02-21 03:32:20 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 761 2011-02-21 03:34:25 TheKid has joined
 762 2011-02-21 03:34:29 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
 763 2011-02-21 03:34:29 TheKid has joined
 764 2011-02-21 03:36:50 ElectRo` has joined
 765 2011-02-21 03:37:20 bitcoiner has joined
 766 2011-02-21 03:39:39 asdfdsa has joined
 767 2011-02-21 03:40:57 <necrodearia> updated http://meta.witcoin.com/p/56/user-generated-categories
 768 2011-02-21 03:42:17 <ElectRo`> anybody else running fluxbox + bitcoin here
 769 2011-02-21 03:42:27 Lachesis has joined
 770 2011-02-21 03:42:49 <necrodearia> ElectRo`, I'm not, but ever since about v0.3.3 i noticed the trayicon in kde is broken
 771 2011-02-21 03:43:46 jrabbit has joined
 772 2011-02-21 03:46:17 <luke-jr_> necrodearia: try Spesmilo? ☺
 773 2011-02-21 03:46:56 <luke-jr_> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo/archive-tarball/tonal (tar.gz)
 774 2011-02-21 03:47:04 <luke-jr_> requires PySide and bitcoind
 775 2011-02-21 03:48:10 <necrodearia> http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/difficultiez.php wow, difficulty jumped a bit
 776 2011-02-21 03:50:12 <[Tycho]> 40% :(
 777 2011-02-21 03:50:15 <mmarker> I love cryptic GCC errors
 778 2011-02-21 03:50:31 Blitzboom_ has joined
 779 2011-02-21 03:51:37 <mmarker> Oh good. Move for 50 errors to 100
 780 2011-02-21 03:52:34 <Lachesis> luke-jr_, i gave spesmilo a try
 781 2011-02-21 03:52:38 <Lachesis> line-by-line balances read N/A
 782 2011-02-21 03:52:42 <Lachesis> and it's missing my address book
 783 2011-02-21 03:52:51 <Lachesis> (and some of the settings in the wallet, like paytxfee)
 784 2011-02-21 03:53:03 <Lachesis> but other than that, i could totally switch to it + a bitcoind
 785 2011-02-21 03:53:09 <luke-jr_> Lachesis: erm, *what* address book?
 786 2011-02-21 03:53:14 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 787 2011-02-21 03:53:25 <Lachesis> the list of receiving and sending addresses
 788 2011-02-21 03:53:28 <Lachesis> did i just miss it?
 789 2011-02-21 03:53:52 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
 790 2011-02-21 03:53:59 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
 791 2011-02-21 03:53:59 Blitzboom has joined
 792 2011-02-21 03:54:15 <luke-jr_> no, it only shows 1 of the 2 addresses
 793 2011-02-21 03:54:29 <luke-jr_> balance is basically non-trivial because bitcoind doesn't give us tx-by-tx balance
 794 2011-02-21 03:54:35 <bk128> is anyone running a ati card 58xx/59xx in a pci-e x1 slot?
 795 2011-02-21 03:54:42 <luke-jr_> ;;bc,calcd 265000 25997
 796 2011-02-21 03:54:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 25997, is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds
 797 2011-02-21 03:54:45 <Lachesis> bk128, yeah
 798 2011-02-21 03:54:48 <Lachesis> 5870 over here
 799 2011-02-21 03:54:50 <Lachesis> in a 1x slot
 800 2011-02-21 03:54:58 <Lachesis> actually that's not true
 801 2011-02-21 03:55:03 <Lachesis> i tried it there but it didn't work
 802 2011-02-21 03:55:06 <Lachesis> unrelated to the slot though
 803 2011-02-21 03:55:08 <Lachesis> the card was bad
 804 2011-02-21 03:55:19 <Lachesis> didn't try my other card in that slot
 805 2011-02-21 03:55:19 <bk128> oh.  did you use a 16x riser and cut the bottom?
 806 2011-02-21 03:55:24 <luke-jr_> ;;bc,calc 265000
 807 2011-02-21 03:55:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 6 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes, and 40 seconds
 808 2011-02-21 03:55:27 <Lachesis> oh hold on
 809 2011-02-21 03:55:33 <Lachesis> it's still PCI-E 2.0
 810 2011-02-21 03:55:37 <Lachesis> so perhaps not a 1x slot?
 811 2011-02-21 03:55:37 agent123 has joined
 812 2011-02-21 03:56:24 <xelister> bk128: is that possible? wow
 813 2011-02-21 03:56:47 <bk128> just doesnt use a bunch of the data lanes.  art says it's possible
 814 2011-02-21 03:57:46 <[Tycho]> Today i posted a link to article about fitting 5970 in x1 slot.
 815 2011-02-21 03:58:02 Syke has joined
 816 2011-02-21 03:58:03 <bk128> still have it?
 817 2011-02-21 03:58:17 <[Tycho]> May be. Can you check in log ?
 818 2011-02-21 03:58:20 <TheKid> [Tycho]: hacksaw?
 819 2011-02-21 03:58:29 <[Tycho]> Both.
 820 2011-02-21 03:58:36 <[Tycho]> And one short wire.
 821 2011-02-21 03:59:07 <[Tycho]> Actually Art* uses x1 slots, i suppose.
 822 2011-02-21 03:59:22 <bk128> I might try getting http://www.dhgate.com/pci-e-express-x16-riser-card-1-slot-with/p-ff8080812c305fe5012c367decb86967.html
 823 2011-02-21 03:59:33 <bk128> then cutting the bottom and pulling out the 12v lines to a molex connector
 824 2011-02-21 04:00:11 pogden has joined
 825 2011-02-21 04:00:30 <luke-jr_> w00t, self-mining so far gets me 142% of ;;bc,calc estimates :P
 826 2011-02-21 04:00:42 <bk128> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
 827 2011-02-21 04:00:52 agent123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 828 2011-02-21 04:01:51 <JFK911> luke-jr_: How long?
 829 2011-02-21 04:02:58 <[Tycho]> bk128, yes.
 830 2011-02-21 04:03:30 <mmarker> Oh hell, I may have it done.
 831 2011-02-21 04:04:06 <mmarker> this compile is a bit...long though
 832 2011-02-21 04:04:08 <jlk102935908a> ;;bc,calc 3600000
 833 2011-02-21 04:04:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 12 hours, 4 minutes, and 58 seconds
 834 2011-02-21 04:04:37 asdfdsa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 835 2011-02-21 04:04:49 <mmarker> uhh. this is getting bad. A single source compile full of just intrinsics shouldn;t be taking 128megs
 836 2011-02-21 04:05:04 <luke-jr_> JFK911: since Feb 2
 837 2011-02-21 04:05:10 <jgarzik> mmagic: cpuminer or ufasoft's miner?
 838 2011-02-21 04:05:30 <jlk102935908a> ;;bc,calc 36000
 839 2011-02-21 04:05:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 36000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 7 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 17 minutes, and 13 seconds
 840 2011-02-21 04:05:37 <luke-jr_> "should have" is 175 BTC, actual is 250
 841 2011-02-21 04:05:45 <mmarker> jgarzik: yours. Going to do a proper push if I can test the code
 842 2011-02-21 04:05:47 <jlk102935908a> 2 months, yikes.
 843 2011-02-21 04:06:22 <jgarzik> mmarker: sha256_4way.c is indeed resource intensive here, too
 844 2011-02-21 04:06:24 <luke-jr_> JFK911: first 10 days, I got nothin. then 2 blocks within 5 hours :P
 845 2011-02-21 04:06:28 <Blitzboom> i got 4 blocks in 3 days, so
 846 2011-02-21 04:06:39 <jgarzik> takes 5-10 seconds to build, on my beefy machine
 847 2011-02-21 04:06:47 <jgarzik> shockingly long, in these modern times ;-)
 848 2011-02-21 04:06:47 <Blitzboom> with 350 mhash/s
 849 2011-02-21 04:07:20 <luke-jr_> so now I'll 11 days ahead I guess
 850 2011-02-21 04:07:23 <luke-jr_> I'm*
 851 2011-02-21 04:07:50 <Blitzboom> i’m fine if i make as much as my gpu costed me
 852 2011-02-21 04:07:54 <luke-jr_> and that's not even factoring in the time I pause my miner to play PS2 games :P
 853 2011-02-21 04:08:02 <luke-jr_> Blitzboom: I did that in under 2 weeks :D
 854 2011-02-21 04:08:11 <Blitzboom> nice
 855 2011-02-21 04:09:34 <luke-jr_> Soft Solitary Tri Pansy
 856 2011-02-21 04:10:45 <Lachesis> mmarker, what are you adding?
 857 2011-02-21 04:11:52 <jgarzik> how unprofessional.  Google Calendar displays my event on my calendar as "House answer to foo & bar" as "House answer to foo &amp; bar"
 858 2011-02-21 04:12:27 Syke_ has joined
 859 2011-02-21 04:13:36 <bk128> what's a good program on linux to see cpu temp? (debian)
 860 2011-02-21 04:13:51 <bk128> and other motherboard stats (voltage etc)
 861 2011-02-21 04:14:34 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 862 2011-02-21 04:14:35 <pogden> I'm pretty sure both GNOME and KDE have widgets for CPU temp
 863 2011-02-21 04:15:00 <bk128> ok
 864 2011-02-21 04:15:04 <doublec> gnome has the sensors applet
 865 2011-02-21 04:15:22 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
 866 2011-02-21 04:17:27 <JFK911> luke-jr_: cool
 867 2011-02-21 04:17:42 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
 868 2011-02-21 04:21:41 <mmarker> Lachesis: NEON 4way code for jgarzik's cpuminer
 869 2011-02-21 04:22:00 <Lachesis> speedups?
 870 2011-02-21 04:22:06 <mmarker> Maybe. We shall see
 871 2011-02-21 04:22:22 <Diablo-D3> [11:04:29] <jgarzik> how unprofessional.  Google Calendar displays my event on my calendar as "House answer to foo & bar" as "House answer to foo &amp; bar"
 872 2011-02-21 04:22:28 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: not unprofessional
 873 2011-02-21 04:22:32 <mmarker> jgarzik: your cpuminer doesn't have a test for the SHA hash to make sure it's right?
 874 2011-02-21 04:22:37 <Diablo-D3> they just have a convert in the wrong place
 875 2011-02-21 04:22:38 <Diablo-D3> it happens
 876 2011-02-21 04:23:03 <Diablo-D3> or they're double converting it
 877 2011-02-21 04:23:05 <Diablo-D3> which also happens
 878 2011-02-21 04:23:43 <mmarker> hmm, assembly code looks maybe OK, not a lot of thrashing
 879 2011-02-21 04:23:50 * mmarker adds some glue
 880 2011-02-21 04:27:50 soultcer has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 881 2011-02-21 04:28:10 soultcer has joined
 882 2011-02-21 04:28:53 <mmarker> Ok, glue added. Let's see if we don't segfault
 883 2011-02-21 04:29:34 satamusic_ has joined
 884 2011-02-21 04:30:25 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 885 2011-02-21 04:30:50 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 886 2011-02-21 04:31:33 <mmarker> and defeated again by auto*
 887 2011-02-21 04:32:36 <mmarker> oh. uh. scratch that
 888 2011-02-21 04:33:24 <mmarker> Ok. the kernel C version on the cortex-a8, about 273.78khash/sec
 889 2011-02-21 04:33:47 <mmarker> *crosses fingers*
 890 2011-02-21 04:35:46 <mmarker> aaaand we have an internal compiler error. Nice.
 891 2011-02-21 04:35:51 <Diablo-D3> sweet!
 892 2011-02-21 04:36:10 noagendamarket has joined
 893 2011-02-21 04:36:30 <mmarker> I threw on GCCs vectorizer. Probably not wise...
 894 2011-02-21 04:36:40 <validus> i had those on mplayer vaapi, just dont know if it was the actual pc or gcc as it died not much later
 895 2011-02-21 04:37:16 <mmarker> My experience is once you wander away from gcc for x86...things get a little dodgy.
 896 2011-02-21 04:37:46 <validus> that was on x86
 897 2011-02-21 04:37:48 <validus> heh
 898 2011-02-21 04:37:59 <mmarker> IOW, it's probably a real gcc bug
 899 2011-02-21 04:38:03 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 900 2011-02-21 04:38:04 <mmarker> versus "my memory is shot"
 901 2011-02-21 04:39:03 <mmarker> Crap. Boom
 902 2011-02-21 04:39:12 <mmarker> time to compile it on the cross compiler.
 903 2011-02-21 04:52:35 jlk102935908a has left ()
 904 2011-02-21 05:02:44 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 905 2011-02-21 05:03:38 Syke_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 906 2011-02-21 05:10:28 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
 907 2011-02-21 05:10:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109430 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1449 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 15 hours, 32 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48082.82032623
 908 2011-02-21 05:10:36 <afed_> that diff est is murder
 909 2011-02-21 05:11:27 <Lachesis> jeez it is
 910 2011-02-21 05:12:02 <TheKid> anyone want to buy 5 bitcoins for 4 bucks?
 911 2011-02-21 05:12:10 <TheKid> need a little more for an SSD I'm buying
 912 2011-02-21 05:12:34 <ZenMondo> what's the current exchange?
 913 2011-02-21 05:12:51 <TheKid> higher than that
 914 2011-02-21 05:12:58 <Lachesis> ;;bc,mtgox
 915 2011-02-21 05:12:58 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8954,"low":0.831,"vol":3548,"buy":0.84,"sell":0.86,"last":0.8313}}
 916 2011-02-21 05:12:59 <TheKid> that would be buying at .8 each
 917 2011-02-21 05:13:00 <TheKid> good deal
 918 2011-02-21 05:13:08 <TheKid> but I need some quick cash
 919 2011-02-21 05:13:23 CyanDynamo has joined
 920 2011-02-21 05:13:34 Syke_ has joined
 921 2011-02-21 05:13:36 <Lachesis> TheKid, sell me 25 at that rate and i'll do it :)
 922 2011-02-21 05:13:46 <JFK911> TheKid: OK, send me the $4 by Western Union
 923 2011-02-21 05:13:53 <Lachesis> lol nm then
 924 2011-02-21 05:15:38 <TheKid> JFK911: what, no
 925 2011-02-21 05:16:35 <JFK911> OK then mail me a cheque, I'll wait for it to clear
 926 2011-02-21 05:17:02 <Lachesis> TheKid, you're trying to SELL bitcoins FOR dollars, right?
 927 2011-02-21 05:17:26 <Lachesis> and you're saying you're $4 short to buy a >100 SSD?
 928 2011-02-21 05:17:55 <TheKid> Lachesis: yes
 929 2011-02-21 05:18:17 <Lachesis> TheKid, alright, I'll bite
 930 2011-02-21 05:19:24 <TheKid> someone already did ;)
 931 2011-02-21 05:19:25 <TheKid> sorry
 932 2011-02-21 05:19:40 <Lachesis> kk np
 933 2011-02-21 05:20:14 <Lachesis> anyone selling 5870s?
 934 2011-02-21 05:20:57 <nanotube> Lachesis: there's an sell order for 5770 on the otc book ;)
 935 2011-02-21 05:21:07 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 936 2011-02-21 05:21:16 <TheKid> Lachesis: I'lk potentially sell one for 250 USD or an equivalent amount of bitcoins
 937 2011-02-21 05:21:32 <afed_> i'll probably liquidate after one or two more diff increases
 938 2011-02-21 05:22:54 sgornick has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 939 2011-02-21 05:23:19 sgornick has joined
 940 2011-02-21 05:23:48 <Lachesis> TheKid, nah, that's what they cost on newegg
 941 2011-02-21 05:24:11 <Lachesis> was hoping to get a discount, although i suppose i'm asking 2 months two early :)
 942 2011-02-21 05:24:49 <Lachesis> what is Dwolla, btw?
 943 2011-02-21 05:26:15 <mmarker> Funding from your bank account
 944 2011-02-21 05:26:25 <mmarker> easier wire transfers, in essence
 945 2011-02-21 05:26:51 <Lachesis> neat
 946 2011-02-21 05:26:59 <Lachesis> fees?
 947 2011-02-21 05:27:02 <mmarker> .25
 948 2011-02-21 05:27:04 <mmarker> flat
 949 2011-02-21 05:27:28 <mmagic> a while back, Art, you mentioned you'd written a tool which was capable of peeking/poking at the i2c to read VRM temps and set voltages in Linux. is there an official tool somewhere that does it, or did you ever end up releasing the one you built?
 950 2011-02-21 05:27:38 <TheKid> Lachesis: it is a discount, it's a vapor-x cooler
 951 2011-02-21 05:27:53 <TheKid> those retailed for ~330
 952 2011-02-21 05:28:03 <TheKid> and they work amazingly
 953 2011-02-21 05:28:31 <Lachesis> what's special about it?
 954 2011-02-21 05:28:41 <TheKid> it's a non reference cooler that's not shit
 955 2011-02-21 05:28:45 <TheKid> hold on I'll link a review
 956 2011-02-21 05:29:26 <nanotube> mmarker: you just got rated on otc ;)
 957 2011-02-21 05:29:44 <mmarker> Oh, nuts
 958 2011-02-21 05:30:00 <JFK911> I'm running the sapphire non-reference
 959 2011-02-21 05:30:04 <JFK911> overclocked to the max
 960 2011-02-21 05:30:07 <JFK911> 72C
 961 2011-02-21 05:30:22 <JFK911> 40% fan
 962 2011-02-21 05:31:14 <TheKid> http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/sapphire_radeon_5870_vapor-x_review/page11.asp
 963 2011-02-21 05:32:01 <JFK911> yah i dont have that one its the cheaper version
 964 2011-02-21 05:32:03 <Lachesis> huh what hash rate do you get with it?
 965 2011-02-21 05:32:15 <JFK911> overclocked?  350kk
 966 2011-02-21 05:32:17 <TheKid> well it's a 5870
 967 2011-02-21 05:32:30 <TheKid> JFK911: what cooling do you have?
 968 2011-02-21 05:32:34 <TheKid> and what's ambient
 969 2011-02-21 05:32:34 <Lachesis> TheKid, so... what hash rate do you get? :)
 970 2011-02-21 05:32:38 <mmarker> Ok, this cross compiler is gonna kill me
 971 2011-02-21 05:32:41 <TheKid> what JFK said
 972 2011-02-21 05:32:43 <JFK911> 25c ambient
 973 2011-02-21 05:32:44 <mmarker> It's time for sleep
 974 2011-02-21 05:32:48 <JFK911> 3 additional 80mm fans in the box
 975 2011-02-21 05:32:49 <TheKid> 350mh/s
 976 2011-02-21 05:32:51 <JFK911> 1 in the front 2 in the back
 977 2011-02-21 05:32:57 <Lachesis> mmarker, lol gl in the morning
 978 2011-02-21 05:33:01 <TheKid> JFK911: I couldn't keep the damn thing cool for the life of me
 979 2011-02-21 05:33:10 <JFK911> oh
 980 2011-02-21 05:33:16 <mmarker> Gotta work tomorrow. My day job is more chemistry
 981 2011-02-21 05:33:17 <JFK911> i also took a drive bay cover off
 982 2011-02-21 05:33:18 <TheKid> what's ambient in your room?
 983 2011-02-21 05:33:20 LtBrenton_ has joined
 984 2011-02-21 05:33:21 <JFK911> then that helped a lot
 985 2011-02-21 05:33:25 <JFK911> 25c ambient, box on the floor
 986 2011-02-21 05:33:27 <TheKid> I had dual 120mms pointed right at the damn thing
 987 2011-02-21 05:33:36 <Lachesis> TheKid, JFK911, I've got a box fan pointed at the side of the case
 988 2011-02-21 05:33:38 <Lachesis> 500 mm fan :)
 989 2011-02-21 05:33:41 <JFK911> air has to flow thru the chassis.  with the cover off, it gets warmer
 990 2011-02-21 05:34:02 <JFK911> you tried manually setting the fan?
 991 2011-02-21 05:34:05 <Lachesis> TheKid, where are you? US?
 992 2011-02-21 05:34:09 <TheKid> Buffalo NY
 993 2011-02-21 05:34:11 <TheKid> yep
 994 2011-02-21 05:34:16 <JFK911> 100% sounds annoying.
 995 2011-02-21 05:34:19 <Lachesis> How much would shipping to 45219 be?
 996 2011-02-21 05:34:20 <TheKid> JFK911: manually at 100%
 997 2011-02-21 05:34:20 LtBrenton has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 998 2011-02-21 05:34:33 <TheKid> probably around 15-20 bucks
 999 2011-02-21 05:34:49 <JFK911> my card is model #100281-3SR
1000 2011-02-21 05:34:57 <JFK911> i saw a more expensive version from sapphier with a slightly different model number
1001 2011-02-21 05:35:06 <TheKid> JFK911: yeah that's the shit one I had
1002 2011-02-21 05:35:16 <TheKid> huh maybe I just got one that they left the thermal paste off :P
1003 2011-02-21 05:35:22 <Lachesis> eh i'll pass for now
1004 2011-02-21 05:35:23 <JFK911> or put too much on :(
1005 2011-02-21 05:35:31 <JFK911> i paid $130 on craigslist
1006 2011-02-21 05:36:00 <bk128> is there a way to view fan speed in aticonfig?
1007 2011-02-21 05:36:04 <TheKid> nice
1008 2011-02-21 05:36:30 <Lachesis> lol : http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bar/2215914178.html
1009 2011-02-21 05:36:40 <JFK911> Bong Hits, BRB!
1010 2011-02-21 05:36:44 <TheKid> yeah that guy posts on almost all of the craigslists
1011 2011-02-21 05:36:49 <TheKid> he HAS to be a miner
1012 2011-02-21 05:36:51 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1014 2011-02-21 05:39:59 Slix` has joined
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1016 2011-02-21 05:42:04 mmarker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1017 2011-02-21 05:56:47 gasteve has joined
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1020 2011-02-21 06:03:53 <SantoC> bitcoin is the shit
1021 2011-02-21 06:06:00 <SantoC> bitcoin and trading currency the like will be the solution to fair trade
1022 2011-02-21 06:06:25 <SantoC> evolution in the process
1023 2011-02-21 06:08:24 <Blitzboom> it’s pure anarchocapitalism
1024 2011-02-21 06:08:27 <Blitzboom> imo
1025 2011-02-21 06:12:56 <SantoC> the means are now provided for us to manage our assets without the intervention of some sleezebag  banker
1026 2011-02-21 06:13:06 <SantoC> i love the fact that im apart of this
1027 2011-02-21 06:13:30 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1028 2011-02-21 06:13:49 luke-jr has joined
1029 2011-02-21 06:14:06 <SantoC> i can see drugs being legallized because of this whole situation
1030 2011-02-21 06:14:19 <SantoC> since drugs are being trade as it is...globally
1031 2011-02-21 06:14:21 <SantoC> the biggest commodities
1032 2011-02-21 06:14:26 <SantoC> i love this
1033 2011-02-21 06:14:36 <Blitzboom> haha, keep up yout enthusiasm
1034 2011-02-21 06:14:39 <Blitzboom> your*
1035 2011-02-21 06:15:38 <SantoC> this is what the jews did
1036 2011-02-21 06:15:42 <ZenMondo> Is there a mechanism built into the Bitcoin client and network against a DoS style attack?
1037 2011-02-21 06:15:43 <SantoC> when they were not allowed to trade with notes
1038 2011-02-21 06:16:01 <SantoC> the merchant of venice
1039 2011-02-21 06:16:02 <SantoC> good movie
1040 2011-02-21 06:16:16 <ZenMondo> Let's say I create a botnet and start sending bogus transactions on port 8333 to hosts known to be running bitcoin, and/or just random hosts.  How much work does a host have to perform to validate/invalidate a transaction?  How many connections can the client handle?
1041 2011-02-21 06:17:30 lfm has joined
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1043 2011-02-21 06:19:00 satamusic_ is now known as satamusic
1044 2011-02-21 06:19:07 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
1045 2011-02-21 06:19:07 satamusic has joined
1046 2011-02-21 06:20:13 dirtyfilthy has joined
1047 2011-02-21 06:24:37 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1048 2011-02-21 06:31:09 genjix has joined
1049 2011-02-21 06:31:18 genjix has quit (Changing host)
1050 2011-02-21 06:31:18 genjix has joined
1051 2011-02-21 06:33:39 devon_hillard has joined
1052 2011-02-21 06:34:04 <devon_hillard> has it become not worthwhile to be mining while gaming with the new slush rules?
1053 2011-02-21 06:34:21 <afed_> any shares are better than no shares
1054 2011-02-21 06:34:34 <devon_hillard> what about casual miners that don't mine 24/7?
1055 2011-02-21 06:35:02 SantoC has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1056 2011-02-21 06:35:13 <devon_hillard> there are no shares as I understand them now, just a score?
1057 2011-02-21 06:35:27 <afed_> false
1058 2011-02-21 06:35:39 <afed_> shares are counted and displayed
1059 2011-02-21 06:35:47 <afed_> used to determine score
1060 2011-02-21 06:35:50 <devon_hillard> if I mine while I am gaming, would I be penalized more than just by the reduced hashes/s?
1061 2011-02-21 06:35:52 <afed_> score determines reward
1062 2011-02-21 06:36:09 <afed_> it would be like you had a slower card
1063 2011-02-21 06:36:16 <afed_> don't overthink it
1064 2011-02-21 06:36:43 <devon_hillard> yeah, but hashes/s will vary more
1065 2011-02-21 06:38:10 <afed_> that isn't really a problem
1066 2011-02-21 06:38:36 <devon_hillard> so who ends up penalized?
1067 2011-02-21 06:38:52 <afed_> people who mine for a period and disconnect
1068 2011-02-21 06:39:06 <devon_hillard> what sort of period?
1069 2011-02-21 06:40:01 <afed_> do the math
1070 2011-02-21 06:40:53 <devon_hillard> is there another pool than slush?
1071 2011-02-21 06:40:59 <devon_hillard> which still uses the old rules?
1072 2011-02-21 06:48:46 <lfm> the old rules allow cheating
1073 2011-02-21 06:51:25 chaord has joined
1074 2011-02-21 06:54:22 <bk128> devon_hillard: bitpenny might be back soon
1075 2011-02-21 06:57:55 Lube has quit ()
1076 2011-02-21 07:01:53 <CIA-57> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra9121f9 / (3 files in 2 dirs):
1077 2011-02-21 07:01:53 <CIA-57> DiabloMiner: Automatically strip .[0-9] from $DISPLAY and set $COMPUTE, also make
1078 2011-02-21 07:01:53 <CIA-57> DiabloMiner: work group size of 64 the default instead of the hardware default - http://bit.ly/eWQD4A
1079 2011-02-21 07:02:56 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1080 2011-02-21 07:04:59 <Diablo-D3> there, two less things people need to do
1081 2011-02-21 07:05:20 Mango-chan has joined
1082 2011-02-21 07:05:21 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
1083 2011-02-21 07:05:21 Mango-chan has joined
1084 2011-02-21 07:05:25 <bk128> Diablo-D3:  :)
1085 2011-02-21 07:05:43 <bk128> hostname:port?
1086 2011-02-21 07:05:52 <Diablo-D3> hmm?
1087 2011-02-21 07:07:03 <bk128> allow hostname:port in one parameter or separate ones?
1088 2011-02-21 07:07:10 <Diablo-D3> its already in seperate
1089 2011-02-21 07:07:32 <Diablo-D3> -o and -r
1090 2011-02-21 07:07:50 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1091 2011-02-21 07:08:18 <bk128> I know.  thought you could also allow -o hostname:port
1092 2011-02-21 07:08:23 <bk128> why'd you use -o instead of -h?
1093 2011-02-21 07:08:30 <Diablo-D3> because of --help
1094 2011-02-21 07:08:30 <bk128> oh, help?
1095 2011-02-21 07:08:41 <Diablo-D3> and if Im going to do that, I might as well just add --url
1096 2011-02-21 07:08:51 <bk128> lol
1097 2011-02-21 07:09:33 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1098 2011-02-21 07:09:54 tehrainbowguy has joined
1099 2011-02-21 07:10:01 <lfm> bk128: why do you need a combined one?
1100 2011-02-21 07:10:37 <bk128> you don't.
1101 2011-02-21 07:11:03 <bk128> it would just be so new users have less chance of messing it up
1102 2011-02-21 07:11:10 tehrainbowguy has left ()
1103 2011-02-21 07:11:10 <lfm> ok do you want the extra complexity in the miner? you know that complexity make more bugs.
1104 2011-02-21 07:11:13 <bk128> i've seen people on forums trying -o hostname:port
1105 2011-02-21 07:12:24 <lfm> ya its amazing sometimes the mistakes people make, its not clear your idea would reduce mistakes tho
1106 2011-02-21 07:12:58 <Diablo-D3> bk128: I know, I wish they wouldnt
1107 2011-02-21 07:13:09 <Diablo-D3> lfm: well, with url, they can just copy pasta the whole fucking thing
1108 2011-02-21 07:13:14 <Diablo-D3> and btw, its not complex
1109 2011-02-21 07:13:20 <lfm> Diablo-D3: can you do a syntax check on the host name?
1110 2011-02-21 07:13:27 <Diablo-D3> I can, sure
1111 2011-02-21 07:13:29 <Diablo-D3> should I? no.
1112 2011-02-21 07:14:22 <JFK911> User-unfriendly!!  Why do you hate the end users?!!!?
1113 2011-02-21 07:14:22 larsivi has joined
1114 2011-02-21 07:14:26 <lfm> It may let you issue a more relevant error message when people make such mistakes and reduce support needs?
1115 2011-02-21 07:15:03 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1116 2011-02-21 07:15:04 <Diablo-D3> error messages are for the weak
1117 2011-02-21 07:15:10 <Diablo-D3> real men rtfsl
1118 2011-02-21 07:15:25 <lfm> JFK911: end users do seem to ask for it sometimes, like not reading instructions
1119 2011-02-21 07:16:29 <lfm> of course some end users cant read so maybe we shouldnt blame them huh?
1120 2011-02-21 07:17:19 <Diablo-D3> the only end users who deserve support are the ones who donate and/or come on irc
1121 2011-02-21 07:17:23 <JFK911> Dummies can use compute4cash!!
1122 2011-02-21 07:17:53 <Diablo-D3> so, whos miner is compute4cash using to scam people?
1123 2011-02-21 07:18:01 <Kiba> blah
1124 2011-02-21 07:18:04 <Kiba> arguments on the forum
1125 2011-02-21 07:18:05 <Kiba> is trash
1126 2011-02-21 07:18:15 <lfm> JFK911:  so you saying end users should be ripped off? can we quote you on that?
1127 2011-02-21 07:18:15 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: you'd recognize yours, wouldn't you?
1128 2011-02-21 07:18:30 <Kiba> some socialist guy say this is what happening to his country without explaining why
1129 2011-02-21 07:18:41 <JFK911> lfm: seems to be ok everywhere else to take advantage of dummies.  If you don't, then you're at a disadvantage
1130 2011-02-21 07:18:57 <JFK911> and I think
1131 2011-02-21 07:19:11 <JFK911> if you for instance, sat in front of a tv your whole life, trying to avoid learning anything
1132 2011-02-21 07:19:15 <JFK911> you deserve that!
1133 2011-02-21 07:19:28 <lfm> JFK911: maybe in the long run we will wish we had the dummies on our side
1134 2011-02-21 07:19:54 <JFK911> talk radio hosts already control their minds
1135 2011-02-21 07:21:23 Necr0s has joined
1136 2011-02-21 07:21:32 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: I havent tried out his shit
1137 2011-02-21 07:21:37 <Diablo-D3> but remember, mines open source
1138 2011-02-21 07:21:45 <Diablo-D3> well then again
1139 2011-02-21 07:21:49 <Diablo-D3> if its java, its a dead give away
1140 2011-02-21 07:22:05 devrandom has joined
1141 2011-02-21 07:22:22 <lfm> Diablo-D3: hehe if they cant read instructions how much use is source code?
1142 2011-02-21 07:22:36 <JFK911> Yeah I'm sure once you saw the package spread out you'd see if it was your thing
1143 2011-02-21 07:22:49 <JFK911> There are others that are free tho like momchil's
1144 2011-02-21 07:23:27 <lfm> m0mchil's miner is not really any different
1145 2011-02-21 07:23:37 <Diablo-D3> yeah but you can hide python
1146 2011-02-21 07:23:44 <Diablo-D3> just use py2exe
1147 2011-02-21 07:23:48 <Diablo-D3> no one would ever know its python
1148 2011-02-21 07:23:54 <lfm> huh? why hide it?
1149 2011-02-21 07:24:02 <Diablo-D3> isnt compute4cash a scam?
1150 2011-02-21 07:24:27 <JFK911> If they pay out like they say they will, probably technically no
1151 2011-02-21 07:24:37 <lfm> the guy running it doesnt think so, he is providing extra service for an larger cut
1152 2011-02-21 07:24:37 <JFK911> wouldnt it be funny tho if bitcoins dropped back to three pennies
1153 2011-02-21 07:25:10 <lfm> JFK911: funny for those who have none maybe
1154 2011-02-21 07:25:22 <JFK911> well funny for compute4cash guy
1155 2011-02-21 07:25:46 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1156 2011-02-21 07:25:58 <Diablo-D3> hmm
1157 2011-02-21 07:26:01 <lfm> about as funny as if the us$ dropped to 0.03 euro
1158 2011-02-21 07:26:06 <Diablo-D3> I assumed he was taking like over a quarter
1159 2011-02-21 07:26:38 <JFK911> i think a good business takes half
1160 2011-02-21 07:26:40 <JFK911> at least
1161 2011-02-21 07:27:24 <lfm> jfk good is relative, good for whom?
1162 2011-02-21 07:27:53 <JFK911> good for everyone
1163 2011-02-21 07:27:56 <Syke_> what "extra services"?
1164 2011-02-21 07:28:05 <JFK911> if a business fails, those who relied on it are SOL
1165 2011-02-21 07:28:18 <JFK911> so, +1 for high margins and stability
1166 2011-02-21 07:28:21 <lfm> JFK911: and thats good?
1167 2011-02-21 07:28:48 <lfm> Syke_: he made it easier to install, configure and run
1168 2011-02-21 07:29:03 <JFK911> Unless you're one of those who thinks that everyone should know everything and DIY instead of shopping at walmart sure
1169 2011-02-21 07:29:31 <JFK911> What Would Charlie Sheen Do?
1170 2011-02-21 07:29:35 <JFK911> He'd use compute4cash
1171 2011-02-21 07:29:38 <lfm> jfk well walmart is evil, I thot everyone knew that
1172 2011-02-21 07:29:41 <Syke_> sounds like a 1-time thing, maybe worth 5 bucks. not 50% of all proceeds
1173 2011-02-21 07:29:51 <JFK911> he's too busy working, and uh, other stuff, to figure bitcoins out
1174 2011-02-21 07:30:17 <JFK911> His work is more important, because, he makes huge amounts of cash, when he goes
1175 2011-02-21 07:30:42 <lfm> Syke_: depends who you are maybe, not worth it to you or I or anyone who is capable of setting up the standard miners themselves
1176 2011-02-21 07:30:55 <Syke_> a pool that takes 50% and hides the fact of what it is doing. that is a scam
1177 2011-02-21 07:30:59 <lfm> Syke_: ie literate
1178 2011-02-21 07:31:16 <JFK911> Syke_: I kinda agree with you, and as a buyer of services, i'd look for the cheapest thing
1179 2011-02-21 07:31:36 <Syke_> it's deceptive in what it is doing
1180 2011-02-21 07:31:41 <JFK911> Someone should put up a "How to mine" video, and charge $50 to download it.
1181 2011-02-21 07:32:10 <lfm> Syke_: deceptive how? you think his customers dont know he is taking a cut?
1182 2011-02-21 07:32:10 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1183 2011-02-21 07:32:20 <JFK911> Syke_: Yeah and so is a lot of other stuff you and I throw money at
1184 2011-02-21 07:33:23 davex__ has joined
1185 2011-02-21 07:33:50 <lfm> ya like every ad on TV tells you what their profit margin is
1186 2011-02-21 07:34:20 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1187 2011-02-21 07:34:26 <JFK911> Most ads are tricks
1188 2011-02-21 07:37:26 <lfm> I wonder what will happen when people figure out it costs them more in power bills than they get from his payÉ they will accuse him of stealing their power I spoze
1189 2011-02-21 07:38:28 lfm has quit (Quit: bah keyboard messed up brb)
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1199 2011-02-21 08:33:29 <necrodearia> category creation is now live
1200 2011-02-21 08:37:11 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1201 2011-02-21 08:38:41 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1202 2011-02-21 08:43:50 T_X has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1207 2011-02-21 08:51:02 <genjix> am i correct in thinking that you cannot add labels/messages to sends in bitcoin?
1208 2011-02-21 08:52:10 T_X has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1212 2011-02-21 08:56:45 <bk128> genjix: I thought you could if you sent to an IP instead of an address
1213 2011-02-21 08:56:57 <genjix> yep apart from that though
1214 2011-02-21 08:57:04 <bk128> oh, I don't think so
1215 2011-02-21 08:57:05 <genjix> (IP is deprecated feature)
1216 2011-02-21 08:57:09 <bk128> yeah
1217 2011-02-21 08:57:13 <genjix> kk just checking
1218 2011-02-21 08:59:13 kevin`` has joined
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1220 2011-02-21 09:07:57 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jQ6GbOkvH8
1221 2011-02-21 09:08:00 <Diablo-D3> holy shit
1222 2011-02-21 09:08:07 <Diablo-D3> listen to what the great gazoo says
1223 2011-02-21 09:08:17 T_X has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1224 2011-02-21 09:08:30 <Diablo-D3> thats just what
1225 2011-02-21 09:08:43 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1226 2011-02-21 09:08:48 T_X has joined
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1230 2011-02-21 09:14:36 <genjix> Diablo-D3: you're obsessed with disney cartoons, no? ;)
1231 2011-02-21 09:16:05 <Diablo-D3> genjix: no, why?
1232 2011-02-21 09:16:18 <Diablo-D3> I dont think there was any disney shit in that clip except tail spin
1233 2011-02-21 09:16:19 <genjix> cos u posted that jasmin pic yesterday
1234 2011-02-21 09:16:27 <genjix> well just cartoons
1235 2011-02-21 09:16:35 <Diablo-D3> genjix: actually, both are those are repeated stuff other people sent me
1236 2011-02-21 09:16:35 <genjix> have you seen powerpuff girls?
1237 2011-02-21 09:16:40 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1238 2011-02-21 09:16:49 <Diablo-D3> powerpuff girls is only funny if you get the joke
1239 2011-02-21 09:16:51 <genjix> O.K. suurre ;) ;)
1240 2011-02-21 09:17:20 <Diablo-D3> (the joke is everyone that works at cartoon network is high on crack)
1241 2011-02-21 09:17:20 <genjix> what is the joke? i find them funny
1242 2011-02-21 09:17:26 <genjix> :D
1243 2011-02-21 09:17:35 <genjix> there's a lot of adult humour in them too
1244 2011-02-21 09:17:44 <Diablo-D3> actually, its like dexter
1245 2011-02-21 09:17:48 <Diablo-D3> only the early eps are any good
1246 2011-02-21 09:18:07 <genjix> never seen that
1247 2011-02-21 09:18:22 <Diablo-D3> they pulled gennedy tarakovsky off both
1248 2011-02-21 09:18:27 <Diablo-D3> and the quality went down greatly
1249 2011-02-21 09:18:30 <genjix> i only found the movie on youtube a few days ago and thought it was really good
1250 2011-02-21 09:18:34 <genjix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbUGL0-bN8w
1251 2011-02-21 09:18:40 <genjix> then downloaded all the episodes
1252 2011-02-21 09:18:53 <Diablo-D3> you'd probably like samurai jack
1253 2011-02-21 09:19:06 <Diablo-D3> thats basically gennedy's best work
1254 2011-02-21 09:27:33 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
1255 2011-02-21 09:29:39 <genjix> hellekin: here I am predicting a market bubble with bitcoin and everyone is telling me I'm wrong: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3396.0
1256 2011-02-21 09:29:46 <genjix> latest: http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1700/screenshotmg.png
1257 2011-02-21 09:29:51 <genjix> haha love being the only person right out of dozens :)
1258 2011-02-21 09:31:13 <hwolf>  It should have lots of fluctuations until more and more people are involved
1259 2011-02-21 09:32:51 sneak has joined
1260 2011-02-21 09:32:53 <hwolf> any financial market has ups and downs.  its human nature to get carried away with the crowd
1261 2011-02-21 09:33:16 sneak is now known as Guest25697
1262 2011-02-21 09:33:28 <genjix> im not philosophising, just predicting whether bitcoin is going up or down
1263 2011-02-21 09:33:38 <genjix> everybody said it will keep going up (short term)
1264 2011-02-21 09:33:41 <genjix> i said down
1265 2011-02-21 09:33:49 <genjix> genjix: 1   bitcoin forum: 0
1266 2011-02-21 09:34:17 <hwolf> what time frame are you talking about?
1267 2011-02-21 09:34:19 <ZenMondo> I spent my first bitcoin today.
1268 2011-02-21 09:34:31 <hwolf> genjix: weeks days months?
1269 2011-02-21 09:35:08 <genjix> maybe 1 month?
1270 2011-02-21 09:35:09 <hwolf> genjix: as larger and larger players try to get involved you should see some really wild ups and downs
1271 2011-02-21 09:35:13 <ZenMondo> well if you pick your beginning and end date whenever you want you can show any kind of trend you want.
1272 2011-02-21 09:37:49 <genjix> here's my prediction: we're in a dipping spike for the next week and a bit. afterwards bitcoin will meander down a little longer (but not by much)
1273 2011-02-21 09:37:53 <hwolf> genjix: overall the price goes way up.  its supply and demand.  there are very sophisticated wallstreet types that are good at messing with prices and exploiting human nature.  They do this in lots of markets.  people start to be negative and sell the farm for pennies, then a few weeks later prices go up and it really isnt the end of the world
1274 2011-02-21 09:37:55 <genjix> and then it will start expanding again
1275 2011-02-21 09:38:34 <genjix> hwolf: so what? doesn't stop this being a bubble
1276 2011-02-21 09:38:38 <hwolf> I think as long as some huge flaw in bitcoin isnt found, it goes way up long term (1yr)
1277 2011-02-21 09:38:46 <genjix> so do we all
1278 2011-02-21 09:38:52 <genjix> that's why we're here
1279 2011-02-21 09:38:57 <hwolf> yes, there will always be bubbles if humans are involved
1280 2011-02-21 09:39:03 <genjix> but short-term there is expansion
1281 2011-02-21 09:40:34 <hwolf> well, what stops this from being a bubble is the utility that comes from it
1282 2011-02-21 09:40:44 <hwolf> and the trust people devolp in it
1283 2011-02-21 09:40:56 <hwolf> and the bigger it gets the more stable etc
1284 2011-02-21 09:41:24 <hwolf> when you say bubble you mean it goes to 0 value right? I was meaning wild ups and downs
1285 2011-02-21 09:41:34 <genjix> bitcoin... utility...
1286 2011-02-21 09:41:44 <genjix> there's no services hardly accepting bitcoin
1287 2011-02-21 09:41:52 <genjix> we're still hacking the infrastructure.
1288 2011-02-21 09:42:08 <JFK911> Maybe someday you'll be able to have fun in Tijuana with bitcoins.
1289 2011-02-21 09:42:11 <genjix> hwolf: not to 0, maybe 1/3 of parity value
1290 2011-02-21 09:42:14 <hwolf> money laundering is using it
1291 2011-02-21 09:42:17 <genjix> 2/3
1292 2011-02-21 09:42:25 <genjix> i mean lose 1/3 of it's current value
1293 2011-02-21 09:42:31 <genjix> (magnitude ballpark figure)
1294 2011-02-21 09:42:34 <hwolf> great medium for money laundering
1295 2011-02-21 09:43:38 <hwolf> the ultimate would be a failed goverment having lots of people use it to protect their wealth.  until now you had to buy gold or something like that
1296 2011-02-21 09:50:11 <edcba> genjix: maybe current service is just to exchange money anonymously right now...
1297 2011-02-21 09:51:28 <genjix> you give more credit to criminal gangs than they deserve
1298 2011-02-21 09:51:37 <genjix> i'm sure many of them are real thickos
1299 2011-02-21 09:52:04 <genjix> or don't follow free libre tech news.
1300 2011-02-21 09:57:33 <hwolf> for now bitcoin is mostly for nerds, but someday the tools will be available for non-nerdy people to use it.  That is when it starts to get exciting.  Somebody builds a paypal,iphone ap for your mom.
1301 2011-02-21 09:58:28 <hwolf> by then it will probably be illegal in many countries so oh well
1302 2011-02-21 09:59:45 <hwolf> genjix: criminals that stay out of jail are usually early adopters.  when I was a kid the only people with pagers were drug dealers and doctors
1303 2011-02-21 10:01:47 <genjix> you are preaching to the choir
1304 2011-02-21 10:05:51 <phantomcircuit> it's actually a non trivial problem to make an anonymous bitcoin transaction
1305 2011-02-21 10:06:01 <phantomcircuit> i dont understand why people think it's anonymous...
1306 2011-02-21 10:06:15 <genjix> it isn't a non trivial problem
1307 2011-02-21 10:06:18 <genjix> use a mixing service
1308 2011-02-21 10:06:26 <JFK911> You just have to never reveal your address, right?
1309 2011-02-21 10:06:41 <hwolf> you dont have to reveal it to the irs
1310 2011-02-21 10:06:44 <hwolf> lol
1311 2011-02-21 10:06:46 <sipa> send money in a few nice round amounts to mybitcoin/mtgox/...
1312 2011-02-21 10:06:59 <sipa> withdraw in nice different round amounts again
1313 2011-02-21 10:07:04 <sipa> pay with those
1314 2011-02-21 10:07:13 <sipa> -> quite untraceable
1315 2011-02-21 10:07:22 sethsethseth_ has joined
1316 2011-02-21 10:08:08 <phantomcircuit> genjix, sure if they have enough volume that their batch transactions can hide your transaction and they have many transactions using the same amount as you
1317 2011-02-21 10:08:42 <phantomcircuit> sipa, a trusted 3rd party :|
1318 2011-02-21 10:09:16 <sipa> yes, unfortunately
1319 2011-02-21 10:09:36 <phantomcircuit> also has the same issues with volume
1320 2011-02-21 10:09:42 <sipa> put otherwise: bitcoin transactions are completely public... bitcoin identities are anonymous (but traceable...)
1321 2011-02-21 10:10:11 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1322 2011-02-21 10:10:31 <phantomcircuit> oh snap good idea
1323 2011-02-21 10:10:35 <phantomcircuit> automated mixing service
1324 2011-02-21 10:10:52 <phantomcircuit> if enough people agreed to it you'd have enough volume and with consistent numbers
1325 2011-02-21 10:14:49 <genjix> dont care enough
1326 2011-02-21 10:15:18 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1327 2011-02-21 10:16:05 <phantomcircuit> genjix, what?
1328 2011-02-21 10:16:18 <genjix> about total anonymity
1329 2011-02-21 10:18:10 <sipa> it already exists
1330 2011-02-21 10:18:16 <sipa> but not used enough to be useful
1331 2011-02-21 10:19:27 <phantomcircuit> sipa, no i meant automating the mixing on the client side, not on the mixer side
1332 2011-02-21 10:19:48 <sipa> oh
1333 2011-02-21 10:20:02 <sipa> i believe there's been a forum post with a suggestion for that
1334 2011-02-21 10:20:26 <genjix> yeah but nobody cared enough to implement it yet
1335 2011-02-21 10:20:34 <genjix> it's not hard to make
1336 2011-02-21 10:24:05 <phantomcircuit> there is really no point in implementing new features  in the mainline client
1337 2011-02-21 10:24:10 <phantomcircuit> it's such a horrible mess
1338 2011-02-21 10:25:09 <bonsaikitten> well, it's wxgtk :)
1339 2011-02-21 10:25:18 <bonsaikitten> and the build system adds some extra funnies
1340 2011-02-21 10:25:38 <phantomcircuit> bonsaikitten, im not even talking about the gui
1341 2011-02-21 10:25:47 <phantomcircuit> the underlying code is a horrible less
1342 2011-02-21 10:25:59 <phantomcircuit> the uint256 code is significantly more complicated than it needs to be
1343 2011-02-21 10:26:01 <bonsaikitten> usually the good coders are not social, and the social coders not good
1344 2011-02-21 10:26:31 <phantomcircuit> bonsaikitten, rawr
1345 2011-02-21 10:26:34 <phantomcircuit> i need food
1346 2011-02-21 10:26:38 <phantomcircuit> wait it's 3am
1347 2011-02-21 10:26:41 <phantomcircuit> wtf  am i doing
1348 2011-02-21 10:26:43 <phantomcircuit> later
1349 2011-02-21 10:26:54 <bonsaikitten> hehe :)
1350 2011-02-21 10:26:57 <bonsaikitten> timezone-challenged
1351 2011-02-21 10:27:11 <sipa> goodmorning from ...?
1352 2011-02-21 10:27:36 <sipa> uruguay?
1353 2011-02-21 10:27:51 <sipa> http://xkcd.com/448/
1354 2011-02-21 10:30:15 <TD> morning
1355 2011-02-21 10:31:43 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1356 2011-02-21 10:34:21 Lis has quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас)
1357 2011-02-21 10:35:59 Guest25697 is now known as sneak
1358 2011-02-21 10:36:26 <bk128> morning
1359 2011-02-21 10:36:29 sneak is now known as Guest12557
1360 2011-02-21 10:42:24 <bk128> I've been pulling way too many all nighters
1361 2011-02-21 10:42:44 <lfm> how many is too many?
1362 2011-02-21 10:42:55 <bk128> like 3 last week and tonight
1363 2011-02-21 10:43:15 <lfm> oh me too then
1364 2011-02-21 10:43:35 <bk128> just started this cs project tonight.  finally finished it.   due at noon
1365 2011-02-21 10:44:05 <bk128> and it looks like only 16/60 people have turned it in anyways
1366 2011-02-21 10:44:27 <genjix> i have a free running sleep schedule :)
1367 2011-02-21 10:44:59 <lfm> genjix: me too
1368 2011-02-21 10:45:07 <Jeroenz0r> Can you send BitCoins without an adress?
1369 2011-02-21 10:45:14 <genjix> ...
1370 2011-02-21 10:45:28 <Jeroenz0r> Van: onbekend
1371 2011-02-21 10:45:30 <Jeroenz0r> >.<
1372 2011-02-21 10:45:34 <Jeroenz0r> From: unknown
1373 2011-02-21 10:46:31 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: not really, there is the old depreciated mode to send to an ip address but it just uses a bitcoin address in the underlaying exchange
1374 2011-02-21 10:47:07 <Jeroenz0r> I got 3 tramsactions from 'unknown'
1375 2011-02-21 10:47:20 <Jeroenz0r> They are from slush's mining...
1376 2011-02-21 10:47:51 <Jeroenz0r> but only because I used a seperate adress +label for it
1377 2011-02-21 10:48:35 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: thats normal. I dont think that field is used any more actually
1378 2011-02-21 10:49:37 akem_ has joined
1379 2011-02-21 10:49:38 akem_ has quit (Changing host)
1380 2011-02-21 10:49:38 akem_ has joined
1381 2011-02-21 10:49:46 <Jeroenz0r> Thats stupid :(
1382 2011-02-21 10:49:47 akem_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1383 2011-02-21 10:50:07 <lfm> jerit might get filled in with an ip address if the sender used the old mode to your i[p address
1384 2011-02-21 10:50:24 <Jeroenz0r> You need to be able to see who send you that money, right?
1385 2011-02-21 10:51:03 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: use the account lables to make notes like that to yourself
1386 2011-02-21 10:51:04 riush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1387 2011-02-21 10:51:19 <lfm> labels
1388 2011-02-21 10:52:02 <Jeroenz0r> Stupid :(
1389 2011-02-21 10:52:35 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: it is the privacy feature you are calling stupid it seems
1390 2011-02-21 10:53:21 rli has joined
1391 2011-02-21 10:53:29 <Jeroenz0r> If someone sends me bitcoins, I need to know who send that right?
1392 2011-02-21 10:53:35 <bk128> Jeroenz0r: just use a different address for each transaction.  label each receiving address with the name of the person you give that address to
1393 2011-02-21 10:53:42 <sipa> what would this "who" be, an address?
1394 2011-02-21 10:54:10 <Jeroenz0r> Yes, proof of him/her sending bitcoins
1395 2011-02-21 10:54:22 <sipa> you have the proof, the money is yours
1396 2011-02-21 10:54:29 <Jeroenz0r> herp
1397 2011-02-21 10:54:37 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: well you cant always tell who sent coins to you in this system. you can use labels toremember what address you give out is for what or who you give it to
1398 2011-02-21 10:54:47 <sipa> that's the intention indeed
1399 2011-02-21 10:54:53 <Jeroenz0r> Hmm
1400 2011-02-21 10:54:54 <Jeroenz0r> Wait
1401 2011-02-21 10:54:55 <Jeroenz0r> lets see
1402 2011-02-21 10:54:56 riush has joined
1403 2011-02-21 10:55:01 <Jeroenz0r> what if i have a shop
1404 2011-02-21 10:55:08 <Jeroenz0r> i sell wallpapers
1405 2011-02-21 10:55:30 <Jeroenz0r> >.<
1406 2011-02-21 10:55:32 <bk128> each customer pays a different address.  you have one receiving address for each customer for each transaction
1407 2011-02-21 10:55:34 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: you should give out a new address to each customer
1408 2011-02-21 10:55:36 <Jeroenz0r> New adress for everyone
1409 2011-02-21 10:55:42 <bk128> yes.
1410 2011-02-21 10:55:47 <bk128> and label it with their name
1411 2011-02-21 10:55:48 <Jeroenz0r> FFFFFFFFFFFF-
1412 2011-02-21 10:55:52 <sipa> when someone clicks "pay now!" in your shop, they'll get a freshly generated address
1413 2011-02-21 10:56:00 <bk128> Jeroenz0r: you can automate it
1414 2011-02-21 10:56:01 <sipa> once a payment is done to that address, they've paid
1415 2011-02-21 10:56:08 <Jeroenz0r> =O
1416 2011-02-21 10:56:20 <sipa> or they'll depend on some third party provider
1417 2011-02-21 10:56:30 <sipa> who does all this for you, in whatever way
1418 2011-02-21 10:57:06 <Jeroenz0r> hmm
1419 2011-02-21 10:57:37 <lfm> Jeroenz0r: I think there is already some packages being created for shops like that
1420 2011-02-21 11:02:30 <Jeroenz0r> And what about some donation adress
1421 2011-02-21 11:02:32 <Jeroenz0r> I make one
1422 2011-02-21 11:02:36 <Jeroenz0r> Label: Donations
1423 2011-02-21 11:02:46 <Jeroenz0r> And put the wallpapers on it for free
1424 2011-02-21 11:03:08 BlueMatt has joined
1425 2011-02-21 11:03:47 <bk128> you can do that too.
1426 2011-02-21 11:10:45 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, damn, these pandoras are bloody hard to get
1427 2011-02-21 11:16:53 noagendamarket has joined
1428 2011-02-21 11:24:27 <lfm> you can tell who has sent to a common donation address like that
1429 2011-02-21 11:24:37 <lfm> you can't tell who has sent to a common donation address like that
1430 2011-02-21 11:25:02 <lfm> too many keys, too few fingers
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1442 2011-02-21 12:18:21 <genjix> d
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1448 2011-02-21 12:22:11 <genjix> Diablo-D3: you know a lot about hardware (it seems)... or anybody else:
1449 2011-02-21 12:22:12 <genjix> I need to solder a new power jack on my laptop. Unfortunately the power jack pin size seems to be rare for that model (1.5mm) but I did find a 2.5mm one. I have a HP power adapter that fits to it... Is it OK to use it with my LG laptop? LG output: 19 V, 4.74 A, 90 W max. HP output: 18.5 V, 3.5 A
1450 2011-02-21 12:22:51 <Diablo-D3> nope.
1451 2011-02-21 12:23:07 <lfm> should be ok I think so long as the voltage is the same and the amp rateing is equal or higher
1452 2011-02-21 12:23:11 <Diablo-D3> look at the amprage.
1453 2011-02-21 12:23:19 <BlueMatt> should be fine
1454 2011-02-21 12:23:34 <bk128> hp is less current by an amp.  if it works, it will charge very slowly if it's running (if at all)
1455 2011-02-21 12:23:54 <bk128> might only be able to charge the battery when it's shut down
1456 2011-02-21 12:24:08 <Diablo-D3> LG laptop: uses 4.74 A
1457 2011-02-21 12:24:14 <Diablo-D3> HP brick: outputs 3.5 A
1458 2011-02-21 12:24:21 <Diablo-D3> and HP bricks are already known to burn up
1459 2011-02-21 12:24:24 <lfm> or it might not work at all if the amp rating is lowwer
1460 2011-02-21 12:24:38 <bk128> yeah.  better not
1461 2011-02-21 12:24:40 <ArtForz> yeah, BAAAD idea
1462 2011-02-21 12:24:56 <Diablo-D3> genjix: dont fuck with laptops.
1463 2011-02-21 12:25:00 <bk128> find a power jack off a broken board on ebay or order one
1464 2011-02-21 12:25:27 <ArtForz> or if its something totally nonstandard, just replace the plug on the brick
1465 2011-02-21 12:25:33 <genjix> bk128: I have a rare prototype laptop :(
1466 2011-02-21 12:25:47 <bk128> and you broke it?!
1467 2011-02-21 12:25:56 <genjix> no the power jack is loose
1468 2011-02-21 12:26:00 <Diablo-D3> you _had_ a rare prototype.
1469 2011-02-21 12:26:06 <genjix> so I need to solder a new one on.
1470 2011-02-21 12:26:08 <Diablo-D3> and power jacks on laptops are designed to break
1471 2011-02-21 12:26:17 <Diablo-D3> every fucking laptop ever has had this problem
1472 2011-02-21 12:26:23 <bk128> guess it's a good thing it's a prototype
1473 2011-02-21 12:26:38 <bk128> Diablo-D3: not the mag safe ones on macbooks
1474 2011-02-21 12:26:51 <Diablo-D3> bk128: thats debatable
1475 2011-02-21 12:26:58 <genjix> im considering pigtailing the cable to the mobo...
1476 2011-02-21 12:27:06 <genjix> eventhough I like portability.
1477 2011-02-21 12:27:06 <bk128> >_<
1478 2011-02-21 12:27:09 <Diablo-D3> and those weirdo RCA+middle pin is a stereo 2.5mm jack shit on earlier mac/powerbooks
1479 2011-02-21 12:27:11 <Diablo-D3> those break
1480 2011-02-21 12:27:19 <bk128> genjix: at least hook up a female>male molex...
1481 2011-02-21 12:27:35 <Diablo-D3> I replaced the DC IN board on my powerbook
1482 2011-02-21 12:27:39 <Diablo-D3> which is a fucking pain in the ass
1483 2011-02-21 12:27:52 <Diablo-D3> you have to remove: the top of the case, ie, the keyboard and palmrest....
1484 2011-02-21 12:27:53 <bk128> Diablo-D3: yeah those suck. mag safe isnt perfect either.  sometimes the spring loaded pins get stuck or dirty. high resistance and it heats up
1485 2011-02-21 12:27:55 <Diablo-D3> the cdrom, the hd
1486 2011-02-21 12:27:59 <Diablo-D3> the sound board on the right
1487 2011-02-21 12:28:00 <genjix> k thanks all... will keep hunting for a power cable or new jack
1488 2011-02-21 12:28:04 <Diablo-D3> the WHOLE FUCKING MOBO
1489 2011-02-21 12:28:07 <bk128> yeah, you have to tear down the laptop.  most are like that
1490 2011-02-21 12:28:09 <Diablo-D3> and then you can remove the dc in board.
1491 2011-02-21 12:28:19 <bk128> and there are 100 different screws, all different sizes
1492 2011-02-21 12:28:26 <Diablo-D3> actually, there was only like
1493 2011-02-21 12:28:59 <ArtForz> yeah, had to replace the magsafe board on a white macbook, major PITA
1494 2011-02-21 12:29:04 <Diablo-D3> 12 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 7 + 2
1495 2011-02-21 12:29:07 <Diablo-D3> or so
1496 2011-02-21 12:29:12 <ArtForz> iirc theres 8 or 9 different screws
1497 2011-02-21 12:29:28 <Diablo-D3> seemed to be only like 4 or 5 different ones
1498 2011-02-21 12:29:29 <ArtForz> and you pretty much need calipers to tell some of em apart
1499 2011-02-21 12:29:34 <lfm> within an order of magnitude or two
1500 2011-02-21 12:29:44 <ArtForz> e.g. you have m2.5x11 and m2.5x12
1501 2011-02-21 12:29:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh, if those exist, Ive probably screwed in some wrong.
1502 2011-02-21 12:30:15 <bk128> ArtForz: I've done one.   didnt think it was that bad http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Core-Duo-MagSafe-Board/288/5#s1105
1503 2011-02-21 12:30:22 <Diablo-D3> although I laid them out in the way I took them out
1504 2011-02-21 12:30:23 <ArtForz> it doesnt really matter because shit is designed with enough clearance
1505 2011-02-21 12:30:38 <Diablo-D3> so the screws likely went back into the same exact hole
1506 2011-02-21 12:30:44 <ArtForz> guess they just like using 9000 different screws
1507 2011-02-21 12:30:54 <Diablo-D3> they like to screw the customer
1508 2011-02-21 12:30:56 <Diablo-D3> dohohohohoho
1509 2011-02-21 12:30:59 * Diablo-D3 feels bad :<
1510 2011-02-21 12:31:29 <lfm> and some of them are self tapping into plastic so they strip if you breathe on em
1511 2011-02-21 12:31:37 <ArtForz> oh, and that macbook, "unrepairable" according to authorized apple service center
1512 2011-02-21 12:31:47 <ArtForz> "system board failure"
1513 2011-02-21 12:31:51 <ArtForz> err... no
1514 2011-02-21 12:31:53 <Diablo-D3> yeah thats bs
1515 2011-02-21 12:31:56 <Diablo-D3> you know what mine did?
1516 2011-02-21 12:32:01 <Diablo-D3> the power brick plug itself
1517 2011-02-21 12:32:04 <Diablo-D3> with the green light
1518 2011-02-21 12:32:10 <Diablo-D3> it overheated and melted the inside of the plug
1519 2011-02-21 12:32:21 <genjix> why're you buying macbooks? aren't they overpriced?
1520 2011-02-21 12:32:26 <ArtForz> magsafe board was shot and the battery was dead (one of the bulging ones with a no charge callback on em)
1521 2011-02-21 12:32:49 <Diablo-D3> so I pitched both bricks
1522 2011-02-21 12:32:52 <lfm> genjix: hp anf lg are no better, maybe worse
1523 2011-02-21 12:33:00 <Diablo-D3> and then bought some third party ones that are rumored to be made by the actual company who makes them
1524 2011-02-21 12:33:07 <Diablo-D3> the plugs on these are considerably better designed
1525 2011-02-21 12:33:11 <ArtForz> I think every laptop is crap :/
1526 2011-02-21 12:33:16 <genjix> lfm: nah my laptop is very good
1527 2011-02-21 12:33:23 <Diablo-D3> brick is also normal shaped brick
1528 2011-02-21 12:33:25 <ArtForz> worst for nonstandardness, older IBM tablets
1529 2011-02-21 12:33:30 <Diablo-D3> instead of those weirdo wall warts apple uses
1530 2011-02-21 12:33:32 <genjix> http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4296
1531 2011-02-21 12:33:40 <lfm> genjix: ya you love your lappy so whats new
1532 2011-02-21 12:33:48 <Diablo-D3> btw, I think my powerbook is shit
1533 2011-02-21 12:33:49 <ArtForz> 1.8" HD (ouch) with nonstandard pinout (WHAT THE FUCK)
1534 2011-02-21 12:33:50 <genjix> :)
1535 2011-02-21 12:34:03 <Diablo-D3> I paid $500 for it used
1536 2011-02-21 12:34:16 <Diablo-D3> I needed something that had a powerpc in it, and I needed a new laptop
1537 2011-02-21 12:34:20 <Diablo-D3> so I killed to birds with one stone
1538 2011-02-21 12:34:28 <bk128> why did you need a ppc?
1539 2011-02-21 12:34:39 <ArtForz> well, I personally dont have any macs
1540 2011-02-21 12:34:40 <Diablo-D3> bk128: big endian
1541 2011-02-21 12:35:17 <ArtForz> which is pretty useful when you got most of your relatives to use macs ;)
1542 2011-02-21 12:35:32 <Diablo-D3> it runs debian fulltime, btw
1543 2011-02-21 12:36:02 <ArtForz> no more "I installed 3585 useless things and now my modem light is blinking all the time"
1544 2011-02-21 12:36:32 <Diablo-D3> heh
1545 2011-02-21 12:36:32 <ArtForz> and whenever shit breaks "sorry, I don't have a clue about OSX"
1546 2011-02-21 12:36:32 * sipa put ubuntu on his mom's laptop, and doesn't have that problem either :)
1547 2011-02-21 12:36:34 <bk128> I got my parents on mac too
1548 2011-02-21 12:36:36 <Diablo-D3> my modem blinks all the time anyhow
1549 2011-02-21 12:36:49 <Diablo-D3> torrents <3
1550 2011-02-21 12:36:56 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1551 2011-02-21 12:37:07 <ArtForz> I think my last torrent DL was like 3 years ago
1552 2011-02-21 12:37:18 <Diablo-D3> what, seriously?
1553 2011-02-21 12:37:21 <ArtForz> yea
1554 2011-02-21 12:37:25 <Diablo-D3> how do you watch japanese tv without it?
1555 2011-02-21 12:37:43 <lfm> or get new distros
1556 2011-02-21 12:37:46 <ArtForz> free nntp w/ >200 days binary retention on IPv6
1557 2011-02-21 12:38:08 <Diablo-D3> thats not really any different dude
1558 2011-02-21 12:38:12 <ArtForz> yes, it is
1559 2011-02-21 12:38:32 <sipa> centralization++
1560 2011-02-21 12:38:41 <ArtForz> in this country *uploading* is illegal
1561 2011-02-21 12:38:43 <sipa> wait, did i just say that on this channel?
1562 2011-02-21 12:39:03 <lfm> ya sipa you should be banned
1563 2011-02-21 12:39:09 <bk128> wtf sipa
1564 2011-02-21 12:39:10 <sipa> oh noes
1565 2011-02-21 12:39:18 <ArtForz> nntp isnt really centralized
1566 2011-02-21 12:39:19 cdecker has joined
1567 2011-02-21 12:39:32 <cdecker> ;;seen chaord
1568 2011-02-21 12:39:32 <gribble> chaord was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <chaord> hi guys...anyone in the mood to make a quick buck today? I need a patch (should be straightforward for anyone who knows the code well) asap
1569 2011-02-21 12:40:00 <ArtForz> if you got the bandwidth and storage, you can get peering pretty easily
1570 2011-02-21 12:43:10 <ArtForz> anyways, off to build another asic board
1571 2011-02-21 12:43:19 <bk128> have fun
1572 2011-02-21 12:43:34 <bk128> how many do you have now?
1573 2011-02-21 12:43:48 <ArtForz> still 3 boards = 24 chips
1574 2011-02-21 12:44:20 <bk128> and how many to a 2u?
1575 2011-02-21 12:44:28 <ArtForz> 4
1576 2011-02-21 12:44:51 <bk128> do you have the other 3 already mounted in the chassis?
1577 2011-02-21 12:44:53 <[Tycho]> Why only 4 ?
1578 2011-02-21 12:45:23 <bk128> 4 boards/ 32 chips
1579 2011-02-21 12:45:42 <bk128> try fitting 32 gpu's in a 2u
1580 2011-02-21 12:46:14 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1581 2011-02-21 12:46:27 <MacRohard> liquid cooling?
1582 2011-02-21 12:47:13 molecular has joined
1583 2011-02-21 12:47:23 <bk128> no, air
1584 2011-02-21 12:47:30 <MacRohard> good luck with that
1585 2011-02-21 12:47:58 <bk128> MacRohard: they're asics. a lot more efficient
1586 2011-02-21 12:48:46 <bk128> I was just saying 32 chips in a 2u is great, compared to the alternative of using GPUs
1587 2011-02-21 12:49:22 <MacRohard> ahh
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1595 2011-02-21 13:04:09 <genjix> ok new solution
1596 2011-02-21 13:04:30 <genjix> i keep my laptops power cable but solder the head of the HP connector to my LG power adapter
1597 2011-02-21 13:04:54 <genjix> then solder in the new power jack where the central pin is too thick.
1598 2011-02-21 13:05:18 <genjix> lfm: ArtForz or Diablo-D3 ... that should be fine, right?
1599 2011-02-21 13:05:30 <Diablo-D3> kerosene and a match seems easier.
1600 2011-02-21 13:06:09 * genjix wonders if you can disassemble the power adapter even
1601 2011-02-21 13:07:02 <Diablo-D3> now, see, when Art says hes made his PSUs go pop before
1602 2011-02-21 13:07:09 <Diablo-D3> they dont really go 'pop'
1603 2011-02-21 13:07:20 <Diablo-D3> its an earth shattering boom
1604 2011-02-21 13:09:59 <genjix> it's just wires d00d
1605 2011-02-21 13:11:34 niekie has joined
1606 2011-02-21 13:12:13 <lfm> is the lg power brick dead, not just the connector?
1607 2011-02-21 13:13:06 <Diablo-D3> the jack in the laptop got weak
1608 2011-02-21 13:13:08 molecular_droid has joined
1609 2011-02-21 13:14:10 <genjix> the central pin wobbles
1610 2011-02-21 13:14:28 molec_droid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1611 2011-02-21 13:15:53 <lfm> if its just the connector, cant you still use the lg power suppy? much safer
1612 2011-02-21 13:17:07 <Diablo-D3> he wants to swap both the jack and the plug
1613 2011-02-21 13:17:15 <genjix> I contacted a supplier who sent me powerjack A (PJ03) with 2.5mm pin but overwise same dimensions. pin is too thick for my adapter. Then he sent me powerjack B (1.65mm) but it's still too thick and casing dimensions are different.
1614 2011-02-21 13:17:28 <genjix> Now I found that a HP adapter fits in powerjack A
1615 2011-02-21 13:17:39 <genjix> and the guy said there isn't any smaller sizes than powerjack B
1616 2011-02-21 13:18:02 <genjix> I could fit powerjack A on, cut the head of the LG adapter and attach the head of the HP adapter instead.
1617 2011-02-21 13:18:08 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1618 2011-02-21 13:18:59 <lfm> ya change plug and jack, keep everything else lg, should be ok
1619 2011-02-21 13:19:07 <genjix> cool :)
1620 2011-02-21 13:19:33 <genjix> LG is useless. Phone number A sent me to number B, and B sent me to A
1621 2011-02-21 13:19:34 <genjix> XD
1622 2011-02-21 13:19:47 <UukGoblin> lol
1623 2011-02-21 13:20:10 <lfm> genjix: laptops are ment to be disposable (whatever they tell you) not repairable
1624 2011-02-21 13:20:26 <Diablo-D3> http://somafm.com/illstreet.pls
1625 2011-02-21 13:20:28 <Diablo-D3> oh god
1626 2011-02-21 13:20:33 <Diablo-D3> its like listening to adult swim bumpers
1627 2011-02-21 13:20:50 <genjix> what about if I got Lenovo next time?
1628 2011-02-21 13:20:56 <Diablo-D3> genjix: only thinkpads
1629 2011-02-21 13:20:57 <genjix> it's a custom built laptop
1630 2011-02-21 13:20:59 <Diablo-D3> ideapads are shit
1631 2011-02-21 13:21:11 <Diablo-D3> I mean, Im not trying to insult it
1632 2011-02-21 13:21:15 <Diablo-D3> ideapads _are_ shit
1633 2011-02-21 13:21:17 <Diablo-D3> thats their purpose
1634 2011-02-21 13:21:37 <Diablo-D3> its lenovo's generic chinese oem morning blend
1635 2011-02-21 13:21:55 <genjix> well it's just annoying how every laptop comes with a CD drive
1636 2011-02-21 13:22:00 <Diablo-D3> thinkpads are still the shit they made back in the 80s and 90s under the IBM header
1637 2011-02-21 13:22:02 <lfm> genjix: lenovo is just another brand, all laptops are basiclly the same
1638 2011-02-21 13:22:03 <genjix> like who watches DVDs or uses CDs
1639 2011-02-21 13:22:07 <Diablo-D3> lfm: not really
1640 2011-02-21 13:22:11 <Diablo-D3> genjix: its to reinstall linux.
1641 2011-02-21 13:22:12 <Diablo-D3> err
1642 2011-02-21 13:22:14 <Diablo-D3> windows.
1643 2011-02-21 13:22:17 <Diablo-D3> wow.
1644 2011-02-21 13:22:19 * Diablo-D3 smacks self
1645 2011-02-21 13:22:46 <Diablo-D3> I hate windows so much it rewrites even my insults
1646 2011-02-21 13:23:10 <genjix> wish I had this quote I saw on ##hardware today
1647 2011-02-21 13:23:12 <genjix> made me lol
1648 2011-02-21 13:23:33 <genjix> "I reinstall windows every 6 months so it stops lagging"
1649 2011-02-21 13:23:53 <Diablo-D3> you know IVe never actually had that problem
1650 2011-02-21 13:23:56 <lfm> but all laptops are just meant to accept new harddrives and certain limited memory upgrades, any thing else you replace the whole dam thing
1651 2011-02-21 13:24:54 <Diablo-D3> eventually it wont even be that
1652 2011-02-21 13:24:56 <genjix> but aren't lenovo's supposed to be like you can switch the parts in and out (never had one but idea seemed intruiging)
1653 2011-02-21 13:25:09 <Diablo-D3> genjix: theres no parts to swap really
1654 2011-02-21 13:25:21 <genjix> so custom built laptops are a myth?
1655 2011-02-21 13:25:26 <Diablo-D3> basically yes
1656 2011-02-21 13:25:32 <Diablo-D3> custom desktops are too
1657 2011-02-21 13:25:40 mtgox has joined
1658 2011-02-21 13:25:49 <genjix> how're custom desktops a myth
1659 2011-02-21 13:25:55 <genjix> wat
1660 2011-02-21 13:26:08 <Diablo-D3> nic, snd, sata, etc, all on mobo
1661 2011-02-21 13:26:19 molecular_droid has quit (Quit: AndroIRC)
1662 2011-02-21 13:26:25 <Diablo-D3> the only choice you get is how much memory and how fast of a cpu and which video card
1663 2011-02-21 13:26:34 <lfm> genjix: If you mean like Dell, they may have a selection of mainboards that will fit in a case but its still pretty limited
1664 2011-02-21 13:26:36 <genjix> and which harddrive
1665 2011-02-21 13:26:37 <Diablo-D3> with laptop, its one less, choice of gpu is on the mobo
1666 2011-02-21 13:26:57 <genjix> hmm but my laptop has an actual geforce inside
1667 2011-02-21 13:27:06 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt
1668 2011-02-21 13:27:11 <Diablo-D3> its embedded on the mobo.
1669 2011-02-21 13:27:16 <lfm> genjix: the only difference is often which cpu they solder in
1670 2011-02-21 13:27:25 <Diablo-D3> lfm: actually, they dont solder in cpus.
1671 2011-02-21 13:27:30 <Diablo-D3> not those kind anyhow
1672 2011-02-21 13:27:32 <lfm> some are
1673 2011-02-21 13:27:34 <Diablo-D3> that practice ended awhile ago
1674 2011-02-21 13:27:40 <lfm> oh ok
1675 2011-02-21 13:27:49 <Diablo-D3> its too complex to do it for these huge ass 1000 pin fuckers
1676 2011-02-21 13:28:03 <Diablo-D3> but you're still fucked
1677 2011-02-21 13:28:11 <Diablo-D3> any given laptop only accepts the cpus it was shipped with
1678 2011-02-21 13:28:16 <Diablo-D3> and the same is for desktops
1679 2011-02-21 13:28:24 <Diablo-D3> people swap cpu/mobo/ram all at the same time
1680 2011-02-21 13:28:30 <Diablo-D3> they never just change one
1681 2011-02-21 13:28:34 <lfm> they prolly do something else f'ed up then like glue em in
1682 2011-02-21 13:28:43 <Diablo-D3> if they do, they're a moron and are handicapping their system and/or wasting money
1683 2011-02-21 13:29:01 sabalaba has joined
1684 2011-02-21 13:29:03 <genjix> why? isn't ram generic?
1685 2011-02-21 13:29:08 <Diablo-D3> no
1686 2011-02-21 13:29:12 <Diablo-D3> ddr1->2->3
1687 2011-02-21 13:29:26 <genjix> right, but apart from that there isn't much difference between brands
1688 2011-02-21 13:29:31 <genjix> except life .etc
1689 2011-02-21 13:29:34 <Diablo-D3> yeah but what Im saying is
1690 2011-02-21 13:29:37 <lfm> laptop ram != ram
1691 2011-02-21 13:29:37 <genjix> just buy some kingston and slap it in.
1692 2011-02-21 13:29:39 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing to upgrade to
1693 2011-02-21 13:30:01 <Diablo-D3> so custom PCs will be forever a myth
1694 2011-02-21 13:30:07 <Diablo-D3> I _dont_ have a choice
1695 2011-02-21 13:30:14 <Diablo-D3> the only thing I keep recycling is the case and psu
1696 2011-02-21 13:30:24 <Diablo-D3> if I want a new cpu, a new mobo and new ram comes with it
1697 2011-02-21 13:30:35 <genjix> why new ram?
1698 2011-02-21 13:30:37 <lfm> and often a new PSU
1699 2011-02-21 13:30:46 <Diablo-D3> [08:21:48] <Diablo-D3> ddr1->2->3
1700 2011-02-21 13:30:54 <genjix> if it fits together then it works good, no?
1701 2011-02-21 13:31:00 <genjix> like legos
1702 2011-02-21 13:31:06 <lfm> genjix: maybe
1703 2011-02-21 13:31:09 <Diablo-D3> I would like to see you try putting ddr1 on a board that uses ddr3.
1704 2011-02-21 13:31:39 <lfm> genjix: sometimes BIOS does not support CPUs that fit socket
1705 2011-02-21 13:31:47 <Diablo-D3> lfm: doesnt matter
1706 2011-02-21 13:31:51 <Diablo-D3> sockets die too quickly
1707 2011-02-21 13:32:00 <Diablo-D3> if you're replacing the cpu for an existing socket, you're wasting money
1708 2011-02-21 13:32:18 <lfm> Im saying even when it physiclly fits doesnt always work
1709 2011-02-21 13:32:36 <Diablo-D3> the hayday of super socket 7 is long over
1710 2011-02-21 13:32:46 <Diablo-D3> no buying an ali or via northbridge and own like 3 or 4 cpus
1711 2011-02-21 13:32:53 <Diablo-D3> shit is locked together.
1712 2011-02-21 13:33:02 <Diablo-D3> you upgrade your computer once a generation
1713 2011-02-21 13:33:13 <Diablo-D3> if you're upgrading it any sooner, you're an idiot
1714 2011-02-21 13:33:17 <Diablo-D3> quit wasting money
1715 2011-02-21 13:33:20 <lfm> ya intel seems to be changing sockets every 6 months
1716 2011-02-21 13:33:26 <Diablo-D3> intel is retarded
1717 2011-02-21 13:33:29 <Diablo-D3> they do it TOO often
1718 2011-02-21 13:33:35 <Diablo-D3> amd has it about right
1719 2011-02-21 13:33:38 <Diablo-D3> once every new memory format.
1720 2011-02-21 13:33:56 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1721 2011-02-21 13:34:54 <genjix> my sister (12) wanted a new computer so we wrote down what she needed and bought all the parts on the internet
1722 2011-02-21 13:35:04 <Diablo-D3> genjix: none of it works?
1723 2011-02-21 13:35:18 <genjix> then I left her to figure out herself (from google) and she managed to slot it all together... everything working.
1724 2011-02-21 13:35:29 <genjix> no works fine now for 6 months.
1725 2011-02-21 13:35:31 <Diablo-D3> heh.
1726 2011-02-21 13:35:36 <genjix> parts from all different vendors.
1727 2011-02-21 13:35:37 <Diablo-D3> unusual
1728 2011-02-21 13:35:54 <Diablo-D3> well, I give her 2 years before she starts hating school and becoming permangry.
1729 2011-02-21 13:36:07 <Diablo-D3> and then stops interacting with people because they're annoying morons
1730 2011-02-21 13:36:08 <lfm> well a little luck maybe, can go either way
1731 2011-02-21 13:36:26 <prax> what do you guys think of this memory?
1732 2011-02-21 13:36:29 <prax> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=u0t0f0fp47335c0s701&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16820148351
1733 2011-02-21 13:36:45 <Diablo-D3> prax: pointless
1734 2011-02-21 13:36:52 <Diablo-D3> no CPU is natively using ddr3-1600
1735 2011-02-21 13:36:52 <prax> ?
1736 2011-02-21 13:37:13 <prax> yet?
1737 2011-02-21 13:37:23 <Diablo-D3> its also volted wrong
1738 2011-02-21 13:37:27 <genjix> coloured like rally car barriers
1739 2011-02-21 13:37:37 <genjix> so the electrons stay on course
1740 2011-02-21 13:38:12 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1741 2011-02-21 13:38:19 <prax> wasn't really thinking about putting a system together yet but it looked like a good deal
1742 2011-02-21 13:38:26 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145278
1743 2011-02-21 13:38:30 <Diablo-D3> thats what you really want.
1744 2011-02-21 13:38:31 <genjix> the video's hilarious
1745 2011-02-21 13:38:41 <genjix> even sounds like a rally car race
1746 2011-02-21 13:38:44 <lfm> on the plus side it will probably work
1747 2011-02-21 13:38:49 <Diablo-D3> cheapest ddr3 2x2 that is volted right.
1748 2011-02-21 13:39:01 skeledrew has joined
1749 2011-02-21 13:39:01 <Diablo-D3> well, with heatsinks
1750 2011-02-21 13:39:06 <genjix> TURN LIGHTS ON OR OFF OR ADJUST BRIGHTNESS
1751 2011-02-21 13:39:12 <lfm> comes with heatsinks
1752 2011-02-21 13:39:19 <genjix> why is there lights on a freekkin ram stick?
1753 2011-02-21 13:39:24 <Diablo-D3> genjix: because people use gentoo.
1754 2011-02-21 13:39:26 <Diablo-D3> thats why.
1755 2011-02-21 13:39:36 <Diablo-D3> now, I'd like to see those lights get through my case.
1756 2011-02-21 13:39:40 <Diablo-D3> is an antec p180b.
1757 2011-02-21 13:39:46 <lfm> der blikne lights are not fer derfingerpoken
1758 2011-02-21 13:39:58 <prax> why is 1.5V volted right and 1.65 isnt?
1759 2011-02-21 13:40:06 <Diablo-D3> prax: because the spec fucking says so.
1760 2011-02-21 13:40:18 <prax> what spec ddr3?
1761 2011-02-21 13:40:18 <genjix> do you carry a pic of your pc setup in your wallet to show to people?
1762 2011-02-21 13:40:23 <Diablo-D3> yes, ddr3.
1763 2011-02-21 13:40:48 <genjix> "this is my pc. it's 3 years old."
1764 2011-02-21 13:41:23 <lfm> ya so you may need to override BIOS default memory voltage setting for those sticks
1765 2011-02-21 13:41:57 <prax> yeah I saw that in comments
1766 2011-02-21 13:42:12 <lfm> some low end motherboard may not support memory voltage changes
1767 2011-02-21 13:42:15 <prax> I just dont see what is the big deal about the voltage, like it wont work then?
1768 2011-02-21 13:42:35 <lfm> prax may or may not work
1769 2011-02-21 13:43:14 <lfm> some motherboard with voltage change support may not go that far
1770 2011-02-21 13:43:40 <prax> hmm
1771 2011-02-21 13:44:04 <lfm> yup hmmm is it worth the risc?
1772 2011-02-21 13:44:19 <Diablo-D3> http://www.fusetech.co.uk/lapping/DSC_1894-out.jpg
1773 2011-02-21 13:44:21 <Diablo-D3> this isnt my box.
1774 2011-02-21 13:44:27 <Diablo-D3> but I have it setup exactly like that.
1775 2011-02-21 13:45:11 <Diablo-D3> thats a thermalright ultra 120, a thermalright hr-03, and a p180b case
1776 2011-02-21 13:45:17 <Diablo-D3> mines setup exactly like that
1777 2011-02-21 13:45:32 <lfm> you have that plate over the PSU?
1778 2011-02-21 13:45:40 <[Tycho]> Nice cooler
1779 2011-02-21 13:46:20 <lfm> isnt heat from gpu sucked into cpu cooler?
1780 2011-02-21 13:46:42 tristan_ has joined
1781 2011-02-21 13:47:00 <tristan_> Hi
1782 2011-02-21 13:47:07 tristan_ is now known as Guest48392
1783 2011-02-21 13:47:26 <prax> guess I will just wait until I am actually building
1784 2011-02-21 13:47:32 <prax> thx guys
1785 2011-02-21 13:47:36 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/my_quad2.jpg - assembling my pc :)
1786 2011-02-21 13:47:47 <Diablo-D3> lfm: that PSU is at the bottom of the case
1787 2011-02-21 13:47:50 <Diablo-D3> and thats not a "plate"
1788 2011-02-21 13:48:00 <Diablo-D3> thats a chamber divider
1789 2011-02-21 13:48:22 <cosurgi> ok, guys. I will be trying to overclock my cards today. What are your hints?
1790 2011-02-21 13:48:25 <Diablo-D3> the four drive cage and the psu are isolated from the rest of the case
1791 2011-02-21 13:48:41 <Diablo-D3> lfm: and yes, the heat is "sucked" into it
1792 2011-02-21 13:48:46 <cosurgi> Can I just increase clock by 5 until it hangs, then reboot, and run at 10 lower than when it hanged?
1793 2011-02-21 13:48:52 <Diablo-D3> lfm: but its all blown out the top of the case with the top case fan
1794 2011-02-21 13:49:00 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: no
1795 2011-02-21 13:49:00 <lfm> [Tycho]: is that a fanless cpu cooler?
1796 2011-02-21 13:49:05 <cosurgi> what about risk in damaging cards?
1797 2011-02-21 13:49:15 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: 5 at a time until my miner starts reporting hw errors, then back off 15.
1798 2011-02-21 13:49:25 <cosurgi> ok.
1799 2011-02-21 13:49:37 <Diablo-D3> and you do 5 at a time every 5 minutes.
1800 2011-02-21 13:49:50 <cosurgi> ok, 5 minutes, delay. good.
1801 2011-02-21 13:50:56 <Diablo-D3> lfm: cpu temps with both gpu and cpu at full blast dont exceed 55c.
1802 2011-02-21 13:51:43 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ok, and i guess you save on fan noise that way
1803 2011-02-21 13:52:06 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1804 2011-02-21 13:53:20 <lfm> Diablo-D3: semss the back fan isnt too usefull, can you just take it out too?
1805 2011-02-21 13:53:23 mmarker has joined
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1808 2011-02-21 13:53:33 LobsterMan has joined
1809 2011-02-21 13:53:33 <Diablo-D3> nope, it works too
1810 2011-02-21 13:53:37 <Diablo-D3> both vent out heat.
1811 2011-02-21 13:53:38 * mmarker summons the spirit of ArtForz
1812 2011-02-21 13:53:53 <lfm> kk
1813 2011-02-21 13:53:54 <Diablo-D3> and it doesnt perturb the air column
1814 2011-02-21 13:55:42 <mmarker> also looking for jgarzik...but it's early
1815 2011-02-21 13:56:47 <lfm> [Tycho]: looks like a disaster in that photo,
1816 2011-02-21 13:57:13 <Diablo-D3> lfm: and no, it doesnt really save on fans
1817 2011-02-21 13:57:20 <Diablo-D3> lfm: remember, theres _2_ fans in that air column
1818 2011-02-21 13:57:25 <Diablo-D3> they're be that many normally anyhow
1819 2011-02-21 13:57:29 BlueMatt has joined
1820 2011-02-21 13:57:46 <Diablo-D3> they just form one air column and it shoots right out the top of the case
1821 2011-02-21 13:58:14 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ya I like it works with convection instead of fighting it
1822 2011-02-21 13:58:31 <Diablo-D3> theres 5 120mm fans in the whole case
1823 2011-02-21 13:58:44 <Diablo-D3> and a thermal triggered 80mm fan in the PSU that is always stuck on slow
1824 2011-02-21 13:58:51 <Diablo-D3> since Im forcing air into it
1825 2011-02-21 13:59:49 <lfm> so two front? one on pxu chanber and one on mb chanber?
1826 2011-02-21 13:59:57 <Diablo-D3> and the front case fan blows through the top drive cage and its split in half by the video card
1827 2011-02-21 14:00:14 <Diablo-D3> so memory and VRM are cooled by fresh air and that vents right out the case
1828 2011-02-21 14:00:39 * mmarker still likes his dowtherm idea.
1829 2011-02-21 14:00:41 <Diablo-D3> see the empty slot guards with the vent holes?
1830 2011-02-21 14:00:41 TD has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1831 2011-02-21 14:00:50 <Diablo-D3> air goes straight out.
1832 2011-02-21 14:01:04 <lfm> antec case?
1833 2011-02-21 14:01:13 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1834 2011-02-21 14:01:38 TD has joined
1835 2011-02-21 14:01:39 <mmarker> Anyone have a goat? I need a sacrifice to make sure this compiler works.
1836 2011-02-21 14:02:06 Lis has joined
1837 2011-02-21 14:02:14 <lfm> mmarker: good luck to ya
1838 2011-02-21 14:02:21 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: no no
1839 2011-02-21 14:02:27 <Diablo-D3> you use rubber chickens with compilers
1840 2011-02-21 14:02:38 <mmarker> Heh
1841 2011-02-21 14:02:50 <mmarker> Well, seems like this is a compiler bug. Suckage.
1842 2011-02-21 14:03:01 <Diablo-D3> its probably not
1843 2011-02-21 14:03:02 <mmarker> Maybe if I remove the branch prediction....this may work better.
1844 2011-02-21 14:03:29 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: It looks like it is. 4.4 doesn't seem to know too much about ARM NEON, it appears.
1845 2011-02-21 14:03:45 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1846 2011-02-21 14:04:01 <Diablo-D3> I wasnt aware gcc had NEON instrinsics yet
1847 2011-02-21 14:04:23 <mmarker> Yup. Since 4.4. Same intrinsics as ARM's compiler, so you can go back and forth
1848 2011-02-21 14:04:42 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: ported the 4way code from the PC to NEON, and trying to see if it works.
1849 2011-02-21 14:04:43 molecular has joined
1850 2011-02-21 14:05:03 <Diablo-D3> sse2<->neon is surprisingly easy for quite a few cases
1851 2011-02-21 14:05:09 <lfm> mmarker: wow, you do need luck then to get that going
1852 2011-02-21 14:05:10 <Diablo-D3> same with sse2<->altivec
1853 2011-02-21 14:05:28 <mmarker> Have a question for Art. Seems like one of the NEON commands can do one of the SHA-2 functions in an instruction
1854 2011-02-21 14:05:41 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: yea, makes sense.
1855 2011-02-21 14:05:41 ducki2p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1856 2011-02-21 14:05:53 <Diablo-D3> sure its a single sha2 round?
1857 2011-02-21 14:06:08 <lfm> round != step
1858 2011-02-21 14:06:11 xelister has joined
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1860 2011-02-21 14:06:11 xelister has joined
1861 2011-02-21 14:06:50 <Blitzboom> is it possible to add the german language to the wiki?
1862 2011-02-21 14:06:58 <mmarker> step. Not round.
1863 2011-02-21 14:07:01 <Blitzboom> i would like to contribute by translating it
1864 2011-02-21 14:07:08 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: yeah, thats useless
1865 2011-02-21 14:07:23 <lfm> Blitzboom: probably ask in forum
1866 2011-02-21 14:07:23 <Diablo-D3> a properly coded sha2 with less rounds like we do should still be faster
1867 2011-02-21 14:07:32 <Blitzboom> hmm ok. will do so
1868 2011-02-21 14:07:36 <mmarker> Ch(E,F,G) may be able to be done with one vs expanding it out
1869 2011-02-21 14:08:18 <mmarker> The dumb thing is there isn't any bit rotates in NEON, so it's annoying
1870 2011-02-21 14:08:27 <lfm> mmarker: it wouldnt be too surpizing if it worked, try it
1871 2011-02-21 14:09:00 <mmarker> lfm: I'm trying my first pass at it...I need to add some SHA-2 test code to jgarzik's cpuminer
1872 2011-02-21 14:09:12 <mmarker> to make sure I'm actually getting the right answer on some test vectors
1873 2011-02-21 14:10:53 slush has joined
1874 2011-02-21 14:11:03 ducki2p has joined
1875 2011-02-21 14:12:56 <mmarker> Yup. It was the branch prediction hint that likked it
1876 2011-02-21 14:13:00 <mmarker> err, killed
1877 2011-02-21 14:14:40 <LtBrenton_> mmarker, kinky :o
1878 2011-02-21 14:14:44 LtBrenton_ is now known as LtBrenton
1879 2011-02-21 14:14:56 LtBrenton has quit (Changing host)
1880 2011-02-21 14:14:56 LtBrenton has joined
1881 2011-02-21 14:15:29 <mmarker> hmm. Assembly doesn't look that hot, lots of loads and stores which I'm not happy about
1882 2011-02-21 14:16:18 <mmarker> But the rounds look semi clean. Well, let's see
1883 2011-02-21 14:19:18 <mmarker> Ok, step 1 done. compiled and link w/o warnings
1884 2011-02-21 14:21:03 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1885 2011-02-21 14:22:02 davex__ has joined
1886 2011-02-21 14:22:40 <mmarker> ARGH, and in the wrong directory...and lost my work. GRR
1887 2011-02-21 14:23:59 zygf_ has joined
1888 2011-02-21 14:24:14 <nanotube> mmarker: next time git commit before you compile. :)
1889 2011-02-21 14:24:34 zygf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1890 2011-02-21 14:24:49 <mmarker> Yea yea
1891 2011-02-21 14:25:05 <mmarker> It was a 1 line change, actually...so no big deal
1892 2011-02-21 14:25:16 <nanotube> ah heh k
1893 2011-02-21 14:26:19 <mmarker> Basically seems like the compiler did not reordering things w.r.t. __builtin_expect
1894 2011-02-21 14:26:50 <mmarker> Since the internal error seemed to hint that it was trying to reorder a function, and failing miserably.
1895 2011-02-21 14:29:17 <lfm> main is a function
1896 2011-02-21 14:30:07 <mmarker> Ok. This doesn't look good. I haven't gotten a result yet from the timer.
1897 2011-02-21 14:31:05 <mmarker> I think I made it worse.
1898 2011-02-21 14:32:51 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1899 2011-02-21 14:33:12 dabron has joined
1900 2011-02-21 14:33:20 <cosurgi> [21.02.11 15:24:01] ERROR: Invalid block found on Cypress (#2), possible driver or hardware issue
1901 2011-02-21 14:33:23 <cosurgi> that's it.
1902 2011-02-21 14:34:41 <mmarker> Ooookkkk. The NEON code is getting a whopping 25khash/sec
1903 2011-02-21 14:34:49 <mmarker> That is not good.
1904 2011-02-21 14:35:27 <mmarker> I dont think it should be that slow...
1905 2011-02-21 14:36:10 <nanotube> is it running on a ti83? ;)
1906 2011-02-21 14:37:10 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1907 2011-02-21 14:37:12 <mmarker> No. The raw C code gets 273khash/sec
1908 2011-02-21 14:37:15 <mmarker> so, urm
1909 2011-02-21 14:37:20 <mmarker> I'm off. by a LOT
1910 2011-02-21 14:37:43 satamusic has joined
1911 2011-02-21 14:38:30 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1912 2011-02-21 14:38:36 mtgox has joined
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1914 2011-02-21 14:39:06 <mmarker> time to -S this
1915 2011-02-21 14:39:10 <mmarker> and see WTF is going on
1916 2011-02-21 14:39:14 Guest48392 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1917 2011-02-21 14:39:45 BlueMatt has joined
1918 2011-02-21 14:41:02 <mmarker> wish I could get a sense of where the bottleneck was. Damn profiling
1919 2011-02-21 14:42:49 mtgox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1920 2011-02-21 14:46:26 <mmarker> Hmm
1921 2011-02-21 14:46:46 <mmarker> It's some nasty memory loads.
1922 2011-02-21 14:48:13 Blitzboom_ has joined
1923 2011-02-21 14:50:31 <mmarker> and a lot of smastack pusking and poping
1924 2011-02-21 14:50:37 <mmarker> err, pushing...which is weird
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1929 2011-02-21 14:55:01 molecular has joined
1930 2011-02-21 15:02:22 TheKid has joined
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1932 2011-02-21 15:02:31 TheKid has joined
1933 2011-02-21 15:03:55 javagamer_ has joined
1934 2011-02-21 15:03:59 <mmarker> grr
1935 2011-02-21 15:04:01 <javagamer_> Hi
1936 2011-02-21 15:04:51 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: in fact it's better to look if it stops reporting blocks (pool), because it's 2^32 less likely to find invalid block, than not to find a block. Normally a pool block should be every few seconds.
1937 2011-02-21 15:04:55 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
1938 2011-02-21 15:05:14 <javagamer_> Just setup the bitcoin client on a computer and used bitfaucet, how long does it normally take to see the transaction?
1939 2011-02-21 15:05:40 <mmarker> A whileish
1940 2011-02-21 15:05:50 <mmarker> Have you gotten all the blocks?
1941 2011-02-21 15:06:32 <javagamer_> The number of blocks at the bottom is still increasing, so I guess not
1942 2011-02-21 15:06:43 <mmarker> On the lower left of the bitcoin client, there's a "blocks: somenumber"
1943 2011-02-21 15:07:03 <mmarker> Yea, so your client hasn't seen the transaction yet.
1944 2011-02-21 15:07:16 <mmarker> ;;gc, block
1945 2011-02-21 15:07:16 <gribble> Error: "gc," is not a valid command.
1946 2011-02-21 15:07:20 <javagamer_> Yeah, it's increasing, atm it's ~78,000
1947 2011-02-21 15:07:34 <mmarker> ;;gc, status
1948 2011-02-21 15:07:34 <gribble> Error: "gc," is not a valid command.
1949 2011-02-21 15:07:43 <mmarker> ;;bc, status
1950 2011-02-21 15:07:44 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
1951 2011-02-21 15:07:47 <mmarker> Grr
1952 2011-02-21 15:07:50 <mmarker> ;;help
1953 2011-02-21 15:07:51 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1954 2011-02-21 15:08:47 <cosurgi> ;;bc,blocks
1955 2011-02-21 15:08:47 <RBecker> mmarker
1956 2011-02-21 15:08:48 <gribble> 109498
1957 2011-02-21 15:08:50 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
1958 2011-02-21 15:08:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109498 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1381 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 9 hours, 59 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47267.36397253
1959 2011-02-21 15:08:56 <RBecker> ^
1960 2011-02-21 15:09:04 <mmarker> So yes, you need to see that number get to 109498
1961 2011-02-21 15:09:06 <cosurgi> you are welcome :)
1962 2011-02-21 15:09:26 <javagamer_> Ah, thanks, so once it hit that I should see it?
1963 2011-02-21 15:10:12 <mmarker> Should, or maybe earlier. It won't get confirmed until you get 5 blocks in
1964 2011-02-21 15:10:52 <mmarker> What you can do is go to http://blockexplorer.com
1965 2011-02-21 15:11:00 <mmarker> and type in your address into the search box
1966 2011-02-21 15:11:09 <mmarker> and you can see the gory details
1967 2011-02-21 15:12:48 <mmarker> grr. This is beginning to annoy me
1968 2011-02-21 15:13:52 <mmarker> It's definitely a compiler bug
1969 2011-02-21 15:14:21 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1970 2011-02-21 15:14:34 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1971 2011-02-21 15:25:09 <mmarker> Uhoh
1972 2011-02-21 15:25:17 <mmarker> I think I see my problem. I ran out of registers
1973 2011-02-21 15:25:20 <mmarker> Oh dear.
1974 2011-02-21 15:27:24 <mmarker> Oh god. The 4way code uses 24 registers.
1975 2011-02-21 15:27:28 <mmarker> ARM only has 16
1976 2011-02-21 15:27:32 <mmarker> OOPS
1977 2011-02-21 15:28:52 <mmarker> err, wait
1978 2011-02-21 15:29:01 <mmarker> How many registers does SSE2 have?
1979 2011-02-21 15:30:58 <javagamer_> ;;bc,stats
1980 2011-02-21 15:31:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109501 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1378 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47223.18838030
1981 2011-02-21 15:31:10 <tcatm> mmarker: depends on processor mode
1982 2011-02-21 15:31:24 <javagamer_> Hmm... I have them all, but I still don't see my transaction
1983 2011-02-21 15:31:54 <tcatm> mmarker: 8 on x86, 16 on amd64
1984 2011-02-21 15:32:02 <mmarker> Hmmm
1985 2011-02-21 15:32:07 <mmarker> Yea, that's what I thought
1986 2011-02-21 15:32:17 <mmarker> so dunno why this NEON code is so dog slow
1987 2011-02-21 15:32:17 Lachesis has joined
1988 2011-02-21 15:32:45 <mmarker> There's a lot of loads and stores, but I can't figure out where they are coming from
1989 2011-02-21 15:32:59 <mmarker> maybe should use the smaller subset
1990 2011-02-21 15:32:59 gavinandresen has joined
1991 2011-02-21 15:34:25 <mmarker> Yea, 16 128 bit regs, 32 64 bit regs
1992 2011-02-21 15:34:37 <mmarker> Probably resize it to "2-way NEON"
1993 2011-02-21 15:36:09 TheAncientGoat has joined
1994 2011-02-21 15:52:03 endian7000 has joined
1995 2011-02-21 15:52:09 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1996 2011-02-21 15:56:44 <mmarker> Grr, do not dump the output of GCC's preprocessor to terminal
1997 2011-02-21 16:01:11 <Lachesis> mmarker, still fighting with that code?
1998 2011-02-21 16:01:24 <Lachesis> did you in fact get to sleep last night? :)
1999 2011-02-21 16:04:18 <mmarker> I did
2000 2011-02-21 16:04:42 <mmarker> got it to build, and is running 10x slower than the default C code
2001 2011-02-21 16:04:46 <mmarker> so simething is amiss
2002 2011-02-21 16:05:07 <mmarker> Think it's thrashing registers, so moving it to a more register friendly mode...only 2-way
2003 2011-02-21 16:06:09 <mmarker> I macro'ed everything up...and I think I broke the preprocessor
2004 2011-02-21 16:07:09 dabron has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2005 2011-02-21 16:09:22 <mmarker> OR I can't count ()'s
2006 2011-02-21 16:13:03 <mmarker> Yea, can't count
2007 2011-02-21 16:13:07 <mmarker> Back to macro-izing
2008 2011-02-21 16:14:43 jav has joined
2009 2011-02-21 16:22:39 <mmarker> There, fully macroized.
2010 2011-02-21 16:22:42 <mmarker> Let's see the damage
2011 2011-02-21 16:24:08 <mmarker> aaand mismatch types.
2012 2011-02-21 16:25:32 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2013 2011-02-21 16:29:20 javagamer_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014 2011-02-21 16:30:29 toad_ has joined
2015 2011-02-21 16:34:42 * mmarker waits
2016 2011-02-21 16:36:19 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2017 2011-02-21 16:38:27 citiz3n is now known as citizen
2018 2011-02-21 16:38:28 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
2019 2011-02-21 16:38:29 <gribble> 109512
2020 2011-02-21 16:38:37 citizen is now known as citiz3n
2021 2011-02-21 16:40:17 <mmarker> Ok, it assembled. Time to rebuild and cross fingers
2022 2011-02-21 16:41:30 <TheKid> mmarker: what are you working on?
2023 2011-02-21 16:41:43 <mmarker> TheKid: Optimized ARM core for CPU mining for pool use
2024 2011-02-21 16:41:58 <mmarker> Right now, it's not so optimized, doing 10x slower than a generic C core
2025 2011-02-21 16:42:23 <TheKid> heh
2026 2011-02-21 16:42:26 <[Tycho]> What is it's purpose ?
2027 2011-02-21 16:43:23 <mmarker> Tycho: I have an army of arm boxen, wanted to see if it could go faster, really academic...but also a good hash/W perhaps
2028 2011-02-21 16:43:33 <mmarker> Ok, it's doing 80khas/sec
2029 2011-02-21 16:43:38 <mmarker> and all the hashes are WRONG
2030 2011-02-21 16:43:39 <mmarker> WOOHOO
2031 2011-02-21 16:43:49 <TheKid> haha
2032 2011-02-21 16:43:49 * Diablo-D3 facepalms
2033 2011-02-21 16:43:59 <[Tycho]> I heard something about new ARM chip intended for server usage :)
2034 2011-02-21 16:44:01 <TheKid> it's efficient at being wrong?
2035 2011-02-21 16:44:11 <LtBrenton> hmm
2036 2011-02-21 16:44:16 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the PR statements on that is really bullshit
2037 2011-02-21 16:44:17 <LtBrenton> mmarker has invented woman
2038 2011-02-21 16:44:21 <TheKid> I want to mine on my droid
2039 2011-02-21 16:44:25 <Diablo-D3> tits just a shitload of cores on a chip.
2040 2011-02-21 16:44:35 <Diablo-D3> its otherwise a normal A8/9/whatever kind of chip
2041 2011-02-21 16:44:51 <mmarker> There's a A10 or 11 or whatsit coming out
2042 2011-02-21 16:44:53 * toad_ proposed a mechanism to da2ce7 to make bitcoin do useful work: Optimisation task to find the min or max of f(X); the puzzle would be "find B such that f(A concat B) better than best known"
2043 2011-02-21 16:45:03 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: yes, 10 comes after 9.
2044 2011-02-21 16:45:13 <mmarker> Diablo: But I think they skipped a number
2045 2011-02-21 16:45:16 <toad_> where A is the hash of all the previous blocks or whatever you use to enforce non-precomputation
2046 2011-02-21 16:45:18 <Diablo-D3> its 15.
2047 2011-02-21 16:45:37 <toad_> oh one other twiddle: it's not f(A concat B), it's f(H(A concat B))
2048 2011-02-21 16:45:48 <mmarker> Yea, it's the 15
2049 2011-02-21 16:45:57 <mmarker> Havent seen one, dunno if I will
2050 2011-02-21 16:45:58 <Diablo-D3> its 15 because they CANT COUNT
2051 2011-02-21 16:46:06 <toad_> imho a large number of realworld useful problems would be amenable to this e.g. protein folding is usually done monte-carlo, A||B becomes the random seed
2052 2011-02-21 16:46:20 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: iirc the halmark is its going to be normally quad core
2053 2011-02-21 16:46:26 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: even though you can build quad core A9s
2054 2011-02-21 16:46:31 * mmarker scratches head. So, nifty bug. All my hashes validate, this is not good
2055 2011-02-21 16:46:43 * mmarker goes to kick his code
2056 2011-02-21 16:46:55 <LtBrenton> yeah, i wonder what the miners are gonna retask their rigs for once difficulty spikes away into oblivion
2057 2011-02-21 16:47:10 <LtBrenton> folding@home suddenly gets inundated with more compute power than it's ever dreamed of? :P
2058 2011-02-21 16:47:27 <toad_> that's pretty much what i'm suggesting :)
2059 2011-02-21 16:47:35 <mmarker> It could be a nice catch 22: "This is getting too hard, I quit"
2060 2011-02-21 16:47:46 <mmarker> difficulty decreases...by how much... no clue.
2061 2011-02-21 16:47:49 <TheKid> heh
2062 2011-02-21 16:47:58 <TD> toad_: could you write up a more detailed proposal for that
2063 2011-02-21 16:48:08 ColdHardMetal_ has joined
2064 2011-02-21 16:48:08 <TheKid> I'm gonna keep mining at least through college
2065 2011-02-21 16:48:13 <LtBrenton> for some reason mmarker that reminded me of an xkcd
2066 2011-02-21 16:48:14 <TheKid> free electricity :P
2067 2011-02-21 16:48:19 <toad_> TD: i'm not sure i have one ... i've read the initial bitcoin paper or at least most of it ...
2068 2011-02-21 16:48:24 <Diablo-D3> folding@home is pointless
2069 2011-02-21 16:48:30 <TD> toad_: like, with an example function that achieves something useful but still allows the fluctuating difficulty target mechanism to work
2070 2011-02-21 16:48:31 <LtBrenton> mmarker, http://xkcd.com/569/
2071 2011-02-21 16:48:35 <Diablo-D3> I'd rather run crowd sourced x prizes.
2072 2011-02-21 16:48:38 <TD> which seems like a key problem
2073 2011-02-21 16:48:49 <toad_> TD: f() is monte carlo technique for just about *anything*
2074 2011-02-21 16:49:06 <toad_> TD: for instance protein folding - you take a random input and map it to a possible folding permutation, and evaluate its energy level
2075 2011-02-21 16:49:16 <toad_> the input is just a seed to a random number generator
2076 2011-02-21 16:49:26 <toad_> loads and loads of science and engineering problems work that way
2077 2011-02-21 16:49:43 <mmarker> Yup
2078 2011-02-21 16:49:44 <toad_> sadly not climate simulation (which would be enormously ironic), but a lot of other stuff
2079 2011-02-21 16:50:06 <mmarker> toad_: You can do things like that, but you end up with an asston of assumptions and ugly math tricks
2080 2011-02-21 16:50:33 <toad_> mmarker: for instance?
2081 2011-02-21 16:50:37 <mmarker> I remeber trying to model B-Z reactions. Nothing like systems of non-linear PDEs to create chaotic systems.
2082 2011-02-21 16:50:52 <toad_> hmmmm
2083 2011-02-21 16:51:01 <mmarker> toad_: You can try to make some non-linear parts linear, but that's more of a black art.
2084 2011-02-21 16:51:03 <toad_> well, the code already exists, can't you just use existing code and feed it a custom RNG?
2085 2011-02-21 16:51:28 <Diablo-D3> DEAR INTERNET
2086 2011-02-21 16:51:33 <Diablo-D3> XKCD IS NOT FUNNY
2087 2011-02-21 16:51:45 <TheKid> no fuck you
2088 2011-02-21 16:51:46 <mmarker> toad_: The problem with Monte Carlo and GA is that whole fitness function
2089 2011-02-21 16:51:47 <TheKid> xkcd is awesome
2090 2011-02-21 16:51:50 <Diablo-D3> PLEASE STOP PERPETUATING THIS MYTH
2091 2011-02-21 16:51:57 <mmarker> That's where you have the most problem.
2092 2011-02-21 16:51:58 <gavinandresen> toad_ : so everybody would be trying to fold the same protein?  Wouldn't there quickly be diminishing returns?
2093 2011-02-21 16:51:59 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: HERITIC!!!
2094 2011-02-21 16:52:10 <TheKid> it is funny sometimes
2095 2011-02-21 16:52:15 <TheKid> and insightful other times
2096 2011-02-21 16:52:19 <gavinandresen> (in other words, it'd get harder and harder to find a more-optimal solution)
2097 2011-02-21 16:52:22 <toad_> gavinandresen: eventually yes, so then you move on
2098 2011-02-21 16:52:25 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: yes, but they have shit like nonces and dongs and whatever
2099 2011-02-21 16:52:41 <gavinandresen> toad_ : "eventually you move on" -- who is you?
2100 2011-02-21 16:52:51 <toad_> you switch to folding a different protein
2101 2011-02-21 16:52:52 <mmarker> Better yet, you can never be guaranteed to find the solution :D
2102 2011-02-21 16:53:00 <gavinandresen> who is you?
2103 2011-02-21 16:53:04 <toad_> yeah, that's a problem :|
2104 2011-02-21 16:53:10 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: how is that different than our shit?
2105 2011-02-21 16:53:14 <toad_> the person setting the challenges - which as i understand it is the entire network?
2106 2011-02-21 16:53:14 <gavinandresen> Do I get to decide?  If so, then I precompute some nice optimal solutions......
2107 2011-02-21 16:53:48 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: True enough.
2108 2011-02-21 16:53:50 <toad_> gavinandresen: no, you're looking for B so that f(A || B) is a new minimum; A is from the chain of previous blocks
2109 2011-02-21 16:53:52 <mmarker> Ok, time for lunch
2110 2011-02-21 16:54:01 mmarker has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
2111 2011-02-21 16:54:31 <gavinandresen> What is the || operator?
2112 2011-02-21 16:54:36 <toad_> concat and then hash
2113 2011-02-21 16:54:56 <toad_> concat really, I missed an H() out
2114 2011-02-21 16:55:51 <gavinandresen> Got it.   I'm still fuzzy on how you know which protein folding problem to work on.
2115 2011-02-21 16:55:53 <toad_> it's true that fixing the difficulty would be difficult to impossible though :|
2116 2011-02-21 16:56:03 <toad_> gavinandresen: same way you choose A, surely?
2117 2011-02-21 16:56:16 <toad_> gavinandresen: some deterministic algorithm based on past solutions and past blocks
2118 2011-02-21 16:56:44 <gavinandresen> I just don't know enough about protein folding.  How long does it take to calculate whether a solution is valid versus finding a valid solution?
2119 2011-02-21 16:56:51 <Diablo-D3> uh
2120 2011-02-21 16:56:57 <Diablo-D3> how is || concat?
2121 2011-02-21 16:57:01 <Diablo-D3> its xor.
2122 2011-02-21 16:57:12 <toad_> protein folding was an example - anything that uses monte carlo
2123 2011-02-21 16:57:34 <Diablo-D3> rendering of physics correct soft shadows uses monte carlo
2124 2011-02-21 16:57:36 <toad_> any problem where the standard solution is to try lots of random inputs and see which yields the best output
2125 2011-02-21 16:58:05 <toad_> hmmm, okay maybe i'm using too narrow a definition of monte carlo :|
2126 2011-02-21 16:58:32 <toad_> but there are a lot of problems where "try f(random) for lots of inputs and use the best one" is the best available strategy
2127 2011-02-21 16:58:56 <gavinandresen> Finding problems where difficulty scales smoothly seems hard.  It'd suck if a problem was chosen that took a week for anybody to find a more optimal solution to.
2128 2011-02-21 16:59:00 <toad_> the problem is as was pointed out the difficulty will increase rather rapidly
2129 2011-02-21 16:59:06 <toad_> and unpredictably
2130 2011-02-21 16:59:15 <gavinandresen> yup
2131 2011-02-21 16:59:20 <toad_> right
2132 2011-02-21 16:59:25 <toad_> however, there is a partial solution to that
2133 2011-02-21 16:59:56 <Diablo-D3> 9000 kinds of digital signal processing
2134 2011-02-21 16:59:57 <Diablo-D3> uses
2135 2011-02-21 16:59:58 <toad_> if there are no answers to f(A||B), then make A slightly smaller ...
2136 2011-02-21 17:00:06 <Diablo-D3> monte carlo handwavium to increase signal quality
2137 2011-02-21 17:00:16 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2138 2011-02-21 17:00:23 <toad_> and increase the prize at the same time
2139 2011-02-21 17:01:07 <gavinandresen> So... pull a satoshi and go do it.  If you come up with a system that actually works, I think lots of people would switch.
2140 2011-02-21 17:01:13 <toad_> that probably introduces big problems :|
2141 2011-02-21 17:01:18 <Diablo-D3> here
2142 2011-02-21 17:01:22 <Diablo-D3> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method
2143 2011-02-21 17:01:29 <Diablo-D3> proof monte carlo is just applied bullshit
2144 2011-02-21 17:02:13 mbarkhau has joined
2145 2011-02-21 17:03:25 <toad_> gavinandresen: do you think the problem with fixing the difficulty is intractable?
2146 2011-02-21 17:03:30 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2147 2011-02-21 17:03:47 <gavinandresen> toad_: no, but I'm not willing to give it a lot of thought-- I've got lots of other things to think about.
2148 2011-02-21 17:03:55 <toad_> okay fair enough
2149 2011-02-21 17:04:01 <toad_> me too, bye folks
2150 2011-02-21 17:04:04 toad_ has left ("Konversation terminated!")
2151 2011-02-21 17:04:26 <da2ce7> goodnight guys.
2152 2011-02-21 17:05:20 <xelister> gavinandresen: would be nice if toad is interested in btc ;) hes the freenet devel
2153 2011-02-21 17:05:32 <xelister> we're trying to get freenet to accept BTC donations too (like eff)
2154 2011-02-21 17:05:44 * xelister was actually first to propose it, back in 2010
2155 2011-02-21 17:05:53 <da2ce7> :O
2156 2011-02-21 17:06:13 <xelister> da2ce7: I think I was first =) to get toad visit this channel and recognize bitcoin at all what it is :)
2157 2011-02-21 17:06:31 * xelister 18cFMqWL4vBKsEyTDM7WU7DXQ1gWK3PFaf  >_>
2158 2011-02-21 17:06:34 <gavinandresen> Cool.  sounds like he's interested
2159 2011-02-21 17:06:34 <da2ce7> ok, well if it was xelister, then it was me who was first to put some btc where my mouth is.
2160 2011-02-21 17:06:35 <da2ce7> :)
2161 2011-02-21 17:06:46 <xelister> da2ce7: yeap :)
2162 2011-02-21 17:07:07 <xelister> well I dontaed to EFF before, was going to freenet but no btc address... so I hope he does it
2163 2011-02-21 17:07:18 <gavinandresen> How's the freenet project doing?  It seems even more in the 'nobody but geeks understand it' ghetto than bitcoin
2164 2011-02-21 17:07:27 toad_ has joined
2165 2011-02-21 17:07:39 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: so was the internet 20 years ago
2166 2011-02-21 17:07:49 <da2ce7> yep, but it is inproving quite well
2167 2011-02-21 17:07:50 <gavinandresen> oh, agreed
2168 2011-02-21 17:08:17 <gavinandresen> ... just most of my time is spent thinking about how to make bitcoin more mainstream
2169 2011-02-21 17:08:19 <da2ce7> it will be so good for freenet to have bitcoin as a killer app
2170 2011-02-21 17:08:55 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: best way if you ask me? get large geek sites to accept it (ie thinkgeek, newegg, etc)
2171 2011-02-21 17:09:09 <BlueMatt> geeks can spread the word better than you think
2172 2011-02-21 17:09:46 * toad_ realises the flaw in my argument ... i was assuming that we want a new global minimum, and that one is already known; we don't, what we want is f(A + B + C) = new minimum given A; A is fixed for a while based on previous transactions when we started this particular task, B is based on previous blocks up to this one, C is what we are looking to find
2173 2011-02-21 17:11:15 <da2ce7> it really is just the same as trying to find a low hash
2174 2011-02-21 17:11:29 <toad_> this helps with the escalating difficulty problem: B gets smaller and the reward gets larger ....
2175 2011-02-21 17:11:30 <toad_> hmmm
2176 2011-02-21 17:11:34 <da2ce7> except the hash is a much more well defined problem.
2177 2011-02-21 17:11:38 <toad_> i had thought i could limit cheating to early-on
2178 2011-02-21 17:11:39 jrabbit has joined
2179 2011-02-21 17:11:43 <toad_> i'm not sure now
2180 2011-02-21 17:12:10 <toad_> cheating being returning a valid value without evaluating the whole space ...
2181 2011-02-21 17:12:12 <gavinandresen> toad_ : if you know the theoretical absolute minimum for f(), and you have a model for how many tries it takes to get closer to that minimum, then I think it'll all work.  Bitcoin uses f = SHA256(), and we know the absolute minimum is zero, and know that it is exponential as you get closer to that minimum....
2182 2011-02-21 17:12:45 ColdHardMetal_ has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
2183 2011-02-21 17:12:59 <toad_> gavinandresen: so you limit it to the useful set of problems for which you know the asymptotic ideal ...
2184 2011-02-21 17:13:20 <gavinandresen> Yeah.  And now you've tricked me into thinking about something I didn't want to think about....
2185 2011-02-21 17:13:46 <xelister> gavinandresen: freenet is improving
2186 2011-02-21 17:13:55 <xelister> one problem is that it is in big part used by people that have to use it
2187 2011-02-21 17:13:56 <xelister> 2 groups
2188 2011-02-21 17:14:26 <xelister> 1) people that are actually hurting children - the 0.001% of the people that abuse children and are technically skilled enough
2189 2011-02-21 17:14:35 <gavinandresen> xelister:   cool, last time I looked at freenet I thought it was a nifty project that looked like too much work for too little reward to actually use.
2190 2011-02-21 17:14:55 <xelister> 2) people that like watch some drawings with people of small boobies etc etc.  Which nowdays many people, mostly americafags/moralfags, confuse with group #1
2191 2011-02-21 17:15:11 <gavinandresen> (cool on the 'freenet is getting better', not the hurting children.... IRC lag sucks sometimes...)
2192 2011-02-21 17:15:12 <xelister> fortunatelly there are many many better users, up to really good uses
2193 2011-02-21 17:15:21 <xelister> like political / freedom
2194 2011-02-21 17:15:23 <xelister> democracy
2195 2011-02-21 17:15:25 <xelister> etc
2196 2011-02-21 17:15:30 <da2ce7> or bitcoin.
2197 2011-02-21 17:15:31 <da2ce7> :)
2198 2011-02-21 17:15:33 <xelister> and technically it is getting better
2199 2011-02-21 17:15:36 <xelister> da2ce7: indeef
2200 2011-02-21 17:15:38 <xelister> *indeed
2201 2011-02-21 17:15:41 <toad_> except when it gets worse :|
2202 2011-02-21 17:15:45 <toad_> and i have a right to say that :|
2203 2011-02-21 17:16:05 <xelister> yeah there where regressions ;)  but hopefull toad_ is working a lot to fix it fully and end up with even better system
2204 2011-02-21 17:16:25 <da2ce7> toad, how is your testnet mk2 going?
2205 2011-02-21 17:16:50 vincenzoml has joined
2206 2011-02-21 17:17:56 <vincenzoml> Hi. Would it be possible to transfer bitcoins asynchronously? That is: I "leave" a coin somewhere, and whoever finds it can take it
2207 2011-02-21 17:18:00 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2208 2011-02-21 17:18:26 <da2ce7> vincenzoml, yes. but the coins will never be found.
2209 2011-02-21 17:18:30 <nanotube> vincenzoml: yes... just create a new wallet, transfer some coins to it.. then leave the wallet file somewhere.
2210 2011-02-21 17:19:15 <da2ce7> if just to a random address, the coins will never be claimed.  There are just tomany of them
2211 2011-02-21 17:19:39 <vincenzoml> da2ce7: I am thinking of implementing electronic contracts over bitcoins
2212 2011-02-21 17:19:51 <xelister> vincenzoml: cool idea! I had similar
2213 2011-02-21 17:20:05 <vincenzoml> e.g. I give you a wallet which can only be opened by knowing a key
2214 2011-02-21 17:20:05 <xelister> vincenzoml: look into BtcFn
2215 2011-02-21 17:20:13 <vincenzoml> and if you know that key then you did something for me
2216 2011-02-21 17:20:22 <xelister> vincenzoml: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0;all  read :)
2217 2011-02-21 17:20:52 bk128 has joined
2218 2011-02-21 17:20:55 <xelister> gavinandresen: btw, care to review http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0;all ?  bitcoin over freenet, sponsored by da2ce7, written by me, and pending actuall implementation (around 150/2000 BTC bounty is pledged so far)
2219 2011-02-21 17:21:12 <toad_> gavinandresen: by definition, there is no cheating provided a solution is found and it's better than the previous value; if no solution is found in some period, we announce the second challenge, with a larger search space and a larger bounty; if solutions are not found after a while we try a different protein (on a fixed rotation)???
2220 2011-02-21 17:21:40 <vincenzoml> xelister: do you have a copy outside of freenet?
2221 2011-02-21 17:21:46 <toad_> gavinandresen: imho most useful problems won't have clearly predictable in advance difficulty
2222 2011-02-21 17:21:59 <xelister> vincenzoml: yes, the Protocol (draft) text is pasted into the forum as well - the long post there
2223 2011-02-21 17:22:33 <xelister> vincenzoml: although installing freenet nowdays takes just 5 minutes (but needs patience to run it, wait few hours best for downloads/boards ... well in #freenet we gladly help )
2224 2011-02-21 17:22:39 Syke_ has joined
2225 2011-02-21 17:22:58 <gavinandresen> toad_: if you can get past the "we" and the "when" it might work.  There's a lot of subtlety in bitcoin related to not relying on one global notion of time
2226 2011-02-21 17:23:00 chmod755 has joined
2227 2011-02-21 17:23:12 <toad_> gavinandresen: hmmmm
2228 2011-02-21 17:23:16 <gavinandresen> xelister:  is mining on freenet really necessary?
2229 2011-02-21 17:23:20 <vincenzoml> xelister: I am thinking of a network of information exchange and distributed storage, which uses bitcoins for selling bandwitdth and space... is that what you had in mind?
2230 2011-02-21 17:23:20 <toad_> gavinandresen: yeah ... if you have no clock you have great difficulties
2231 2011-02-21 17:23:29 <toad_> gavinandresen: specifically, you can't safely prove a negative
2232 2011-02-21 17:23:33 <xelister> gavinandresen:  not nesesses
2233 2011-02-21 17:23:46 <toad_> gavinandresen: you could compare output from different miners but if they're conspiring they all get rewarded
2234 2011-02-21 17:23:57 <gavinandresen> xelister:  because it seemed to me that if you don't have to support miners then you have an easier time implementing over freenet.
2235 2011-02-21 17:24:14 <toad_> gavinandresen: unless issuing a new harder challenge isn't regarded as rewarding them?
2236 2011-02-21 17:24:25 <toad_> gavinandresen: i guess that would allow a DoS though ...
2237 2011-02-21 17:24:29 endian7000 has quit (Quit: endian7000)
2238 2011-02-21 17:25:40 jav has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2239 2011-02-21 17:26:06 <vincenzoml> xelister: after finding your proposal, I'd say no, you're not thinking about that :)
2240 2011-02-21 17:29:50 toad_ has left ("Konversation terminated!")
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2242 2011-02-21 17:30:44 <tcatm> gavinandresen: What is the status on 0.3.20? I've read about working winbuilds on the forum.
2243 2011-02-21 17:31:23 <gavinandresen> tcatm:  what do you think-- do you think it is ready to be officially released?
2244 2011-02-21 17:31:31 <gavinandresen> I haven't got a lot of feedback from Windows testers....
2245 2011-02-21 17:31:41 <gavinandresen> (no news is good news?)
2246 2011-02-21 17:32:13 ColdHardMetal_ has joined
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2249 2011-02-21 17:33:14 <TheKid> gavinandresen: link? I'll download it
2250 2011-02-21 17:33:41 mbarkhau has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2251 2011-02-21 17:33:47 <gavinandresen> TheKid: https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/
2252 2011-02-21 17:33:48 <tcatm> I don't think we will get much feedback without releasing it officially. Linux version is quite stable and I'm using it for quite some time now (wxgui + cli).
2253 2011-02-21 17:34:25 <gavinandresen> TheKid: specifically,   https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/
2254 2011-02-21 17:34:44 <gavinandresen> tcatm:  yeah, I'd like to release it and open up the integration tree for pulls again.
2255 2011-02-21 17:34:49 vincenzoml has left ()
2256 2011-02-21 17:35:13 mmarker has joined
2257 2011-02-21 17:35:18 <Blitzboom> lol
2258 2011-02-21 17:35:25 <Blitzboom> someone check this: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3692.0#new
2259 2011-02-21 17:35:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: minor detail...  don't forget to tag releases ("git tag -a v0.3.20")
2260 2011-02-21 17:35:48 <Blitzboom> i’m almost sure it steals your wallet
2261 2011-02-21 17:36:09 <RBecker> bitcoin was in security now 287
2262 2011-02-21 17:36:34 <Blitzboom> it’s an .exe
2263 2011-02-21 17:36:43 <Blitzboom> and he’s got one post
2264 2011-02-21 17:36:51 * bk128 downloads :D
2265 2011-02-21 17:36:53 <RBecker> Blitzboom, what's up with the weird '
2266 2011-02-21 17:36:54 <Blitzboom> so i’m pretty sure it’s malicious
2267 2011-02-21 17:37:00 <bk128> i'll run it on my vm in sandboxie
2268 2011-02-21 17:37:01 <[Tycho]> First post :)
2269 2011-02-21 17:37:03 <mmarker> jgarzik: Good news. The NEON code compiles. Bad news, it isn't doing SHA-2 it seems
2270 2011-02-21 17:37:07 <Blitzboom> RBecker: just using another keyboard layout
2271 2011-02-21 17:37:17 <RBecker> Blitzboom, ah
2272 2011-02-21 17:37:28 <gavinandresen> I moved the topic to Trashcan.  If it is not a scam, I'll move it back.
2273 2011-02-21 17:37:46 <mmarker> I think I went a little overzealous on moving things out of inline functions and into macros
2274 2011-02-21 17:37:47 <JunK-Y> a patch containing a .exe, what a nice patch :P
2275 2011-02-21 17:37:48 <Blitzboom> it almost sure is
2276 2011-02-21 17:37:58 <TheKid> gavinandresen: in exchange, could you paypal me 8 cents?
2277 2011-02-21 17:38:01 <Blitzboom> thanks, gavinandresen
2278 2011-02-21 17:38:17 <TheKid> I'm that much short of placing an order x.x
2279 2011-02-21 17:38:36 <bk128> firing up my xp 32 bit vm now
2280 2011-02-21 17:38:38 <jgarzik> mmarker: NEON?
2281 2011-02-21 17:38:43 <Blitzboom> btw, how do you want to make sure it’s not a scam
2282 2011-02-21 17:38:46 <Blitzboom> will you test it?
2283 2011-02-21 17:39:24 <gavinandresen> My mommy told me not to run exes from strangers.
2284 2011-02-21 17:40:05 <bk128> gavinandresen: should I test the 3.20 setup or zip for windows?
2285 2011-02-21 17:40:18 <mmarker> Yea
2286 2011-02-21 17:40:25 <TheKid> gavinandresen: I like the new interface look
2287 2011-02-21 17:40:32 <gavinandresen> bk128: if you have no preference, try the zip
2288 2011-02-21 17:40:41 Zarutian has joined
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2291 2011-02-21 17:44:47 <xelister> gavinandresen: there are various forms of activity as described
2292 2011-02-21 17:44:52 <xelister> that can be done with bitcoin using freenet transport
2293 2011-02-21 17:45:03 <xelister> mining is the hardest because of latency and it needs all data there is
2294 2011-02-21 17:45:05 rli has joined
2295 2011-02-21 17:45:26 <xelister> simpliest is just getting and sending transactions (send tx, get chain)
2296 2011-02-21 17:45:31 <xelister> and traansport both <-> tcp
2297 2011-02-21 17:45:35 chmod755 has joined
2298 2011-02-21 17:46:39 <xelister> gavinandresen: the diagram tells it nicelly
2299 2011-02-21 17:46:50 <bk128> just looking at the patch with a hex editor.
2300 2011-02-21 17:46:57 <bk128> lulz
2301 2011-02-21 17:47:10 <bk128> russians
2302 2011-02-21 17:48:10 <TheKid> gavinandresen: new version seems good
2303 2011-02-21 17:48:28 <gavinandresen> TheKid: awesome, thanks for testing.
2304 2011-02-21 17:48:44 <edcba> using freenet to mine or how to mine for previous block :)
2305 2011-02-21 17:49:11 ColdHardMetal_ has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
2306 2011-02-21 17:49:33 <TheKid> gavinandresen: just sent coins, and tried to send more than I had, both worked as expected
2307 2011-02-21 17:49:46 <mmarker> Sigh. I dont think gcc is doing a good job handling the intrinsics. Code performance is still trash
2308 2011-02-21 17:51:25 toad_ has joined
2309 2011-02-21 17:54:00 <toad_> gavinandresen: possible solution to the hardness issue: hand out work units of predictable size, verify them; the solver gets a coin; solvers have to hold on to coins for X number of block generations, and if during that time somebody finds a counter-example proving that the solver is dishonest, the solver loses all accumulated coins to the identity that found the counter-example
2310 2011-02-21 17:55:08 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: oh, and tags might need an extra "git push --tags $LOCATION", if you have already tagged.
2311 2011-02-21 17:55:20 <toad_> gavinandresen: or something like that ...
2312 2011-02-21 17:55:22 <toad_> gavinandresen: just a thought
2313 2011-02-21 17:55:43 gasteve has joined
2314 2011-02-21 17:55:49 <toad_> gavinandresen: if it's a problem of the form we discussed, counter-examples can be checked trivially
2315 2011-02-21 17:57:05 <gavinandresen> toad_: interesting
2316 2011-02-21 17:57:08 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ack
2317 2011-02-21 17:57:45 <toad_> gavinandresen: we can also ban the solver, but that's probably not very effective
2318 2011-02-21 17:58:32 <ducki2p> hi toad_
2319 2011-02-21 17:58:55 <mmarker> Hmm, I'm guess "Proof of work result: false" is bad.
2320 2011-02-21 17:59:03 * mmarker kicks the hell out of his code
2321 2011-02-21 17:59:03 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2322 2011-02-21 17:59:19 <toad_> my problem is i'd probably be willing to risk all the other issues with btc as an experiment if it wasn't for the useless energy cost
2323 2011-02-21 17:59:44 <midnightmagic> is that awesome wallet-stealer still there for me to peek at?
2324 2011-02-21 17:59:44 <toad_> not that i'm entirely sold on the other issues
2325 2011-02-21 17:59:50 <toad_> ducki2p: hello
2326 2011-02-21 18:00:04 * mmarker summons ArtForz
2327 2011-02-21 18:00:11 <jgarzik> mmarker: it might be your code, or it might be stale work.
2328 2011-02-21 18:00:23 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2329 2011-02-21 18:00:25 <jgarzik> mmarker: do you have a static solution to test, one that you know produces a solution?
2330 2011-02-21 18:00:26 <mmarker> jgarzik: Urm, it's every block, so I'm guessing "code"
2331 2011-02-21 18:00:48 <jgarzik> mmarker: hack in a past block, and see if the code finds a solution
2332 2011-02-21 18:00:50 <mmarker> jgarzik: I could try to feed it the origin block into your cpuminer as a "prove that this works"
2333 2011-02-21 18:01:44 <andrew12> I wonder if it'd be worth it to sell ssh accounts on my vps for bitcoins
2334 2011-02-21 18:02:12 <andrew12> or maybe just limit it to use as an ssh tunnel or something
2335 2011-02-21 18:02:14 <mmarker> jgarzik: actually, I should add it regardless in case others want to add new algos..so as to verify.
2336 2011-02-21 18:02:17 <andrew12> hm
2337 2011-02-21 18:02:24 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2338 2011-02-21 18:02:59 <jgarzik> mmarker: that would be a nice addition
2339 2011-02-21 18:03:40 <jgarzik> andrew12: others are selling ssh accounts...  nothing wrong with it.  just gotta monitor what people run on your box.
2340 2011-02-21 18:03:48 <andrew12> yeah
2341 2011-02-21 18:03:55 <luke-jr> andrew12: I have shell accounts available starting at 6 BTC/mo :P
2342 2011-02-21 18:04:12 <andrew12> yeah I saw that in #bc-news :P
2343 2011-02-21 18:04:12 <toad_> gavinandresen: any thoughts?
2344 2011-02-21 18:04:15 <xelister> luke-jr: good enough for freenet node?
2345 2011-02-21 18:04:21 <luke-jr> xelister: nfc
2346 2011-02-21 18:04:27 <andrew12> we are now competitors!
2347 2011-02-21 18:04:30 <xelister> luke-jr: fn node eats 500 mb (more like 200 own + JDK wants like 300 to not swap)
2348 2011-02-21 18:04:31 <xelister> nfc?
2349 2011-02-21 18:04:39 <luke-jr> xelister: memory?
2350 2011-02-21 18:04:44 <xelister> ye
2351 2011-02-21 18:04:56 <luke-jr> 512 MB memory shell starts at 44 BTC/mo
2352 2011-02-21 18:05:01 <gavinandresen> toad_: sorry, working on something else right now.  And am about to be away to eat lunch....
2353 2011-02-21 18:05:05 <xelister> on vps with 500 totall ram, freenet is taking most
2354 2011-02-21 18:05:29 brunner has joined
2355 2011-02-21 18:05:29 <toad_> gavinandresen: okay will lurk, highlight me if you have any thoughts
2356 2011-02-21 18:05:29 <luke-jr> add 3 BTC/mo to make it a full VPS :p
2357 2011-02-21 18:05:56 <xelister> toad_: if you have time, care to review on forum our design?  would be nice to have version "blessed by freenet developer".  Any thoughts to improve, we can probably implement
2358 2011-02-21 18:06:17 <xelister> it has even both freesite and forum  thread.  USK@oG7cGoUEBuHyulWpcmqV0yc-I569Re2A7RRs8zRljEs,IWIcXczmLdP9FEjTvoxJgGnXnK5~PxOppN-wYSADPWQ,AQACAAE/bitcoin-over-freenet/0/
2359 2011-02-21 18:06:23 <genjix> i really hope i haven't ruined my laptop...
2360 2011-02-21 18:06:32 <xelister> genjix: you mined on it? ;)
2361 2011-02-21 18:06:39 <luke-jr> >_<
2362 2011-02-21 18:06:46 <genjix> no, I'm soldering a new power jack on it.
2363 2011-02-21 18:06:47 Bkil has joined
2364 2011-02-21 18:06:51 <genjix> it's my only computer.
2365 2011-02-21 18:07:01 <xelister> buy new computer with bitcoins \o/
2366 2011-02-21 18:07:05 <luke-jr> mining on Intel HD Graphics 2000 causes an eventual hard-lockup
2367 2011-02-21 18:07:07 <Syke_> Is there any sort of VM system that would allow the client OS access to the GPU for mining?
2368 2011-02-21 18:07:16 <luke-jr> Syke_: plenty
2369 2011-02-21 18:07:26 <luke-jr> Syke_: OpenVZ, LXC, Xen
2370 2011-02-21 18:07:26 <genjix> Syke_: virtualbox
2371 2011-02-21 18:07:36 <luke-jr> genjix: uhm, I highly doubt VBox can
2372 2011-02-21 18:07:38 <mmarker> All you need is passthrough for OpenGL
2373 2011-02-21 18:07:39 <genjix> but make sure to enable it in settings
2374 2011-02-21 18:07:45 <luke-jr> mmarker: no
2375 2011-02-21 18:07:49 <luke-jr> OpenGL != OpenCL
2376 2011-02-21 18:07:53 <genjix> luke-jr: yes it does support hardware rendering.
2377 2011-02-21 18:07:55 <xelister> mmarker: even opengl passthrough is not really working is it
2378 2011-02-21 18:08:05 <luke-jr> genjix: OpenGL != OpenCL
2379 2011-02-21 18:08:16 <genjix> how so
2380 2011-02-21 18:08:22 <luke-jr> …
2381 2011-02-21 18:08:27 <genjix> if you have shaders then you have opencl
2382 2011-02-21 18:08:30 <luke-jr> they're just two totally different things
2383 2011-02-21 18:08:56 <luke-jr> genjix: maybe if you implemented OpenCL using libGL and shaders
2384 2011-02-21 18:09:03 <luke-jr> but I'm not aware of any such implementation
2385 2011-02-21 18:09:15 <Syke_> right, so what VMs can handle client OpenCL?
2386 2011-02-21 18:09:22 <luke-jr> Syke_: OpenVZ, LXC, Xen
2387 2011-02-21 18:09:38 <luke-jr> I am using LXC
2388 2011-02-21 18:09:42 <mmarker> Basically anything that can pass thorugh to the underlying HW it seems
2389 2011-02-21 18:09:42 <Syke_> I'll give OpenVZ a try
2390 2011-02-21 18:09:43 <genjix> doesn't opencl utilise the graphics card using shaders?
2391 2011-02-21 18:10:08 <luke-jr> genjix: it may use the same stuff internally to the card, but the access to it from software is different
2392 2011-02-21 18:10:11 <xelister> genjix: probably no
2393 2011-02-21 18:10:19 <genjix> we used to do animation skinning and small calculations like that in games
2394 2011-02-21 18:10:30 <xelister> genjix: the point is to do it better then just faking computations with graphical shaders
2395 2011-02-21 18:10:34 <luke-jr> Syke_: OpenVZ requires a non-standard kernel, FYI
2396 2011-02-21 18:10:35 <xelister> afaik.  but ask ArtForz
2397 2011-02-21 18:10:40 <genjix> so i assumed it was the same thing
2398 2011-02-21 18:10:43 <genjix> ic
2399 2011-02-21 18:11:03 <Syke_> luke-jr, yeah, I installed it once for some reason a while ago
2400 2011-02-21 18:11:05 <midnightmagic> this is precisely the reason why Gibson is incorrect re: anonymity of the currency..  sheesh.
2401 2011-02-21 18:11:06 <luke-jr> :p
2402 2011-02-21 18:11:25 <Syke_> luke-jr, then in the client do you just install the ati drivers and stream stuff like regular?
2403 2011-02-21 18:11:37 <gasteve> toad_: I'm interested to know if you have a way of making btc work without requiring the "useless energy cost" (it's not useless btw...wasteful perhaps, but it serves an important role)...I have thought a little about it and have some ideas, but curious if you've thought aboutit
2404 2011-02-21 18:11:37 <phantomcircuit> genjix, the opencl library directly accesses hardware, vbox uses a custom opengl library in the vm to trap opengl calls, but no such library exists for opencl, the underlying tech is basically the same, however the apis are totally different
2405 2011-02-21 18:11:47 <genjix> oh wow so graphic providers actually provide OpenCL
2406 2011-02-21 18:11:57 <luke-jr> Syke_: with OpenVZ, you most likely need to install the driver on the host side
2407 2011-02-21 18:11:57 <xelister> genjix: reviewd BtcFn yet?  you did used freenet afair?   http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0;all    USK@oG7cGoUEBuHyulWpcmqV0yc-I569Re2A7RRs8zRljEs,IWIcXczmLdP9FEjTvoxJgGnXnK5~PxOppN-wYSADPWQ,AQACAAE/bitcoin-over-freenet/1/
2408 2011-02-21 18:12:15 <toad_> gasteve: look at the logs of this channel for the last few hours, grep for everything i've said
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2412 2011-02-21 18:12:25 <mmarker> phantomcircuit: But wouldn't said trap be just some really simple glue. Course, that's a gross assumption...
2413 2011-02-21 18:12:27 <luke-jr> Syke_: also on the guest side, ofc
2414 2011-02-21 18:12:31 <gasteve> k
2415 2011-02-21 18:12:41 <genjix> xelister: looks very cool :) once my laptop is fixed, i'll poke you so I can test that
2416 2011-02-21 18:12:51 <xelister> genjix: woot =) thanks
2417 2011-02-21 18:12:54 <genjix> does it work?
2418 2011-02-21 18:13:02 <genjix> freenet is super kewl
2419 2011-02-21 18:13:07 <toad_> gasteve: i'm not convinced that any of my proposals are workable, but i'd be delighted if they were
2420 2011-02-21 18:13:29 <luke-jr> Syke_: FWIW, I'm using LXC, so I can only help with that.
2421 2011-02-21 18:13:42 <luke-jr> LXC should work out of the box on any recent Linux
2422 2011-02-21 18:13:43 <mmarker> Hmm. wonder of I could cheat and use blockexplorer to grab the "known block"
2423 2011-02-21 18:14:28 <toad_> is mybitcoin.com safe i.e. trusted?
2424 2011-02-21 18:14:33 <Syke_> luke-jr, so where did you install the drivers, host or client, for lxc?
2425 2011-02-21 18:16:15 <gasteve> well, briefly, I was thinking that while you couldn't eliminate proof of work entirely...you might be able to introduce a delay...the network could reject any blocks created any earlier than say 5 minutes since the previous block, and after 5 minutes, nodes would announce, and receive a random number to/from peers...the numbers would propagate until the network has settled on a common random number...and that number must be incorporated into the
2426 2011-02-21 18:16:15 <gasteve> block...then you could drastically reduce the difficulty level and still throttle the rate of block (and hence btc) creation
2427 2011-02-21 18:16:29 <gasteve> (haven't read your messages yet btw)
2428 2011-02-21 18:16:37 <Blitzboom> the forums clock is six minutes early
2429 2011-02-21 18:16:47 <Blitzboom> that’s ab bit confusing
2430 2011-02-21 18:16:59 <Blitzboom> eh, it’s six minutes late
2431 2011-02-21 18:17:39 <Blitzboom> hmm, now it isn’t … cache maybe
2432 2011-02-21 18:17:54 <mmarker> Crap, anyone care to walk me through what data I get from a getwork command. I'm having a massive brainfart
2433 2011-02-21 18:18:22 <mmarker> Looking at a solved block, and want to make it look like a block that needs to be solved.
2434 2011-02-21 18:18:25 <bonsaikitten> gasteve: I don't see the use of that
2435 2011-02-21 18:18:41 <luke-jr> Syke_: client, provided you give it permission to load kernel modules
2436 2011-02-21 18:18:46 dwdollar has left ()
2437 2011-02-21 18:18:54 <gasteve> the use would be that it reduces energy consumption substantially
2438 2011-02-21 18:19:03 <gasteve> (that's the only use)
2439 2011-02-21 18:19:17 <gasteve> if you don't care about that, then no issues with the current scheme
2440 2011-02-21 18:19:38 <nanotube> gasteve: problem is, you can't verify time. one can stick any timestamp he wants into a block.
2441 2011-02-21 18:19:51 <nanotube> so bay saying "reject blocks created earlier than 5 minutes"... you can't.
2442 2011-02-21 18:20:17 <gasteve> yeah, but the network would have to agree...prior to 5 minutes, clients would be ignoring any attempts to propagate the random code and clients would not accept a new block
2443 2011-02-21 18:20:36 * jgarzik kicks scrollback
2444 2011-02-21 18:20:52 jrabbit has joined
2445 2011-02-21 18:20:53 <Syke_> luke-jr, looks interesting. i'll try lxc out the next time I build a box.
2446 2011-02-21 18:20:55 <gwillen> I do have to wonder why ten minutes was chosen
2447 2011-02-21 18:21:01 <gwillen> it would be nice if the interval were shorter
2448 2011-02-21 18:21:07 <nanotube> gasteve: coordinating stuff over the network has lag. network will not be able to agree with precision on a time.
2449 2011-02-21 18:21:10 <gasteve> and, a client could try and guess the next random code before 5 minutes and get a head start, but their unlikely to be successful
2450 2011-02-21 18:21:22 <nanotube> gasteve: further, how do they 'agree' on a random code?
2451 2011-02-21 18:21:24 <gasteve> they don't have to agree on the time, they just have to agree on a code
2452 2011-02-21 18:21:36 <nanotube> nodeA wants code aoeu, nodeB wants code asdf. who wins?
2453 2011-02-21 18:21:39 <gwillen> just because it would reduce latency
2454 2011-02-21 18:21:59 <nanotube> gwillen: it was basically chosen to give tx and blocks enough time to propagate, and to reduce block chain splits.
2455 2011-02-21 18:22:03 <gwillen> *nods*
2456 2011-02-21 18:22:05 <nanotube> mostly the latter.
2457 2011-02-21 18:22:16 <nanotube> since network propagation currently is on the order of seconds. :)
2458 2011-02-21 18:22:24 <gwillen> to reduce the chance that two people solve at about the same time?
2459 2011-02-21 18:22:29 <gasteve> I broadcast a code to my neighbors and listen to what they broadcast me...if I see a code multiple times, I then use that and broadcast again
2460 2011-02-21 18:22:29 <gwillen> since that would cause a split?
2461 2011-02-21 18:22:30 <nanotube> gwillen: right
2462 2011-02-21 18:22:34 <gwillen> *nods*
2463 2011-02-21 18:22:35 <nanotube> a temporary split
2464 2011-02-21 18:22:38 <nanotube> but a split
2465 2011-02-21 18:22:50 <ArtForz> so I just need a few 100 IPs and can force everyone else to use my code, yay!
2466 2011-02-21 18:22:59 <nanotube> gasteve: what if you really want codeA - just create a few nodes, and broadcast codeA?
2467 2011-02-21 18:23:09 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, with 2400 nodes the odds of a random number being agreed upon is vanishingly small
2468 2011-02-21 18:23:10 <nanotube> ArtForz: right heh
2469 2011-02-21 18:23:21 <bk128> why only 100 IPs?
2470 2011-02-21 18:23:25 <phantomcircuit> also what ArtForz said
2471 2011-02-21 18:23:28 <ArtForz> we do the whole proof-of-work thing BECAUSE voting by-IP is too easy to game
2472 2011-02-21 18:23:42 <bk128> oh
2473 2011-02-21 18:24:10 <gwillen> ArtForz, nanotube: It does seem like you could do some sort of voting by IP safely just for the decision of "when the next round starts"
2474 2011-02-21 18:24:23 <gwillen> since the worst thing that can happen if it's gamed is the round starts early
2475 2011-02-21 18:24:28 <gasteve> so, the goal is not to eliminate block creation and proof of work...it's merely to delay the start of it
2476 2011-02-21 18:24:28 Lachesis has joined
2477 2011-02-21 18:24:31 <gwillen> I'm not sure yet what the safe way to do that is
2478 2011-02-21 18:24:33 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, rounds?
2479 2011-02-21 18:24:35 <gwillen> but it sounds plausible
2480 2011-02-21 18:24:38 <gwillen> phantomcircuit: blocks
2481 2011-02-21 18:24:41 <nanotube> gwillen: attacker pregenerates a block. takes over chain... profit!
2482 2011-02-21 18:24:46 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, you mean what the target is set to?
2483 2011-02-21 18:24:50 <mmarker> Oh, oops
2484 2011-02-21 18:24:56 <nanotube> if you can fake time, you can pregenerate, then force network to accept your block
2485 2011-02-21 18:24:58 <gwillen> nanotube: right, that needs to be dealt with, but I think I have some thoughts as to how it could be done
2486 2011-02-21 18:25:10 <gwillen> nanotube: well, you don't ever depend on timestamps ;-)
2487 2011-02-21 18:25:31 <gwillen> nanotube: there are protocols for consensus on a random number that no individual party can influence
2488 2011-02-21 18:25:36 <gasteve> the network would need to agree on some code to be incorporated into the next block (I don't have a solution to how to do that fairly mind you)
2489 2011-02-21 18:25:46 <gwillen> but, hm
2490 2011-02-21 18:25:57 <gwillen> you have to eliminate the possibility that the adversary can control the generated code
2491 2011-02-21 18:26:02 <gwillen> even if he has many IPs
2492 2011-02-21 18:26:06 <gwillen> so maybe this is not feasible
2493 2011-02-21 18:26:09 <toad_> gwillen: okay so you come up with a random number - what then? give it to the node decided by the random number? then you'll get an influx of bogus nodes ...
2494 2011-02-21 18:26:25 <gwillen> toad_: no, you just use the random number to seed the next round, which runs as it does not
2495 2011-02-21 18:26:28 <gwillen> does now*
2496 2011-02-21 18:26:31 <gasteve> but, if it could be done fairly, then you could introduce a delay before clients would need to start working on the next block and hence cut down on the electricity consumption
2497 2011-02-21 18:26:34 <gwillen> the only change is you wait some time before starting it
2498 2011-02-21 18:26:41 <toad_> gwillen: so your proposal is there is a long delay and then you do a low-difficulty round seeded off it?
2499 2011-02-21 18:26:55 <gwillen> toad_: well, I was not the first person in this thread to propose it, but that's the idea
2500 2011-02-21 18:26:59 <mmarker> Oh there, found the bug
2501 2011-02-21 18:27:02 <gwillen> you lower the difficulty and enforce a wait between rounds
2502 2011-02-21 18:27:02 <ArtForz> well, by IP doesnt work
2503 2011-02-21 18:27:02 Bkil has left ()
2504 2011-02-21 18:27:09 <mmarker> But still crappy performance.
2505 2011-02-21 18:27:11 <gwillen> in order to reduce the waste of CPU power
2506 2011-02-21 18:27:12 <mmarker> 86khash
2507 2011-02-21 18:27:14 <ArtForz> again, how do you enforce a delay
2508 2011-02-21 18:27:17 <gwillen> ArtForz: yeah, let me think about it for a bit
2509 2011-02-21 18:27:25 <gwillen> I'm not yet convinced it can't be done, but it does not appear trivial
2510 2011-02-21 18:27:25 <toad_> ArtForz: it does if you have a random number generation algorithm that is safe if the same attacker hasn't compromised all nodes
2511 2011-02-21 18:27:30 <toad_> ArtForz: i believe there are such things?
2512 2011-02-21 18:27:37 <gwillen> toad_: but you are measuring "nodes" by IP addresses
2513 2011-02-21 18:27:38 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, im convinced it cannot be done...
2514 2011-02-21 18:27:38 <toad_> or all but one nodes
2515 2011-02-21 18:27:43 <gwillen> which is something we do not wish to do
2516 2011-02-21 18:27:49 <gwillen> because it means an attacker with many IP addresses can take over
2517 2011-02-21 18:28:01 <toad_> right, you need to prevent sybil
2518 2011-02-21 18:28:05 <ArtForz> yep
2519 2011-02-21 18:28:09 <gwillen> now, it might be that we can do it so that _any_ single node can ensure the generated number is random
2520 2011-02-21 18:28:14 <gwillen> in which case it might work
2521 2011-02-21 18:28:23 <gwillen> let me think more and cook myself lunch ;-)
2522 2011-02-21 18:28:45 <toad_> okay so your options are either 1) long delays and distributed RNG, or 2) some scheme to do useful work
2523 2011-02-21 18:28:50 <toad_> i have proposed several options for 2
2524 2011-02-21 18:28:59 <toad_> gasteve: has proposed 1
2525 2011-02-21 18:29:11 <ArtForz> yes, plenty people have proposed that
2526 2011-02-21 18:29:11 <mmarker> ArtForz: have a minute, I need to pick your brain on the ARM NEON VBSL thing you picked up on yesterday for Chi()?
2527 2011-02-21 18:29:17 <ArtForz> yeah
2528 2011-02-21 18:29:17 <toad_> so maybe it IS possible to make bitcoin not a big contributor to global warming :)
2529 2011-02-21 18:29:29 <ArtForz> it probably never will be
2530 2011-02-21 18:29:36 <toad_> because nobody will use it?
2531 2011-02-21 18:29:41 <ArtForz> nope
2532 2011-02-21 18:30:09 <midnightmagic> how do you verify that useful work has been done?
2533 2011-02-21 18:30:09 <toad_> yes, but it matters to me if i'm going to endorse it that IF it gets popular, it won't be grossly inefficient
2534 2011-02-21 18:30:18 <gwillen> I do agree with toad_ here
2535 2011-02-21 18:30:23 <toad_> midnightmagic: I posted a few proposals earlier, have a look at them
2536 2011-02-21 18:30:26 <ArtForz> well, assuming rational miners, it can't be THAT inefficent
2537 2011-02-21 18:30:28 <gwillen> it is kind of tragic that bitcoin requires a lot of useless work to be done
2538 2011-02-21 18:31:09 <ArtForz> it's not useless if it's required to remove the need for a central authority
2539 2011-02-21 18:31:12 <toad_> what was the first one ... hmmmmm, the first proposal was just we have a useful problem which involves finding X to minimise f(X) by trying random X's ... we can make part of the X dependant on the last round and part of it is what the miner has to find
2540 2011-02-21 18:31:19 <gwillen> ArtForz: that could be worse, though; if rationality requires the number of miners to drop precipitously once we stop minting coins, then will the network have enough CPU to protect against attacks?
2541 2011-02-21 18:31:37 <ArtForz> yes, that could become a problem
2542 2011-02-21 18:31:40 <toad_> when you find a new best known good, you earn a coin; the catch is the difficulty will not be predictable and may be very high
2543 2011-02-21 18:31:44 <gwillen> if the transaction fees are so low that only a few hundres people can rationally participate, then we are in trouble
2544 2011-02-21 18:31:53 <ArtForz> I also see a possible major problem with the next few halvings of per-block payout
2545 2011-02-21 18:32:00 <gwillen> ArtForz: and I haven't yet seen a compelling proposal for ensuring people provide large txn fees
2546 2011-02-21 18:32:04 <gwillen> ArtForz: oh?
2547 2011-02-21 18:32:20 <ArtForz> assume you have a vast majority of rational for-profit miners
2548 2011-02-21 18:32:27 <gwillen> right
2549 2011-02-21 18:32:31 <gasteve> it would be worth knowing/estimating how much energy btc generation actually consumes...with the rate of btc creation dropping, and with competitive mining, there is a limit to how much waste there actually will be (it will be, and probably already is unprofitable to mine)
2550 2011-02-21 18:32:53 <toad_> the second proposal was we divide it into chunks, and find the best f(X) for that specific block, and then we force miners to hold onto their blocks for some period, and if in that period a counterexample is found (a better value within the same block), then the miner loses ALL his held onto blocks
2551 2011-02-21 18:32:54 <ArtForz> if most of them are running below 100% profit, they will have below-0 profit when the payout halves
2552 2011-02-21 18:33:17 <ArtForz> = a vast majority of hashpower shuts down pretty much overnight
2553 2011-02-21 18:33:25 <gwillen> ArtForz: yeaaah, that had occurred to me
2554 2011-02-21 18:33:34 <ArtForz> then next 2016 blocks until difficulty can adjust downards will take... a while
2555 2011-02-21 18:33:45 <gwillen> ArtForz: if it's soon, it may be cushioned by the number of people who are running it just for shits and giggles
2556 2011-02-21 18:33:56 <ArtForz> it's late 2013 I think
2557 2011-02-21 18:34:00 <gwillen> ahh
2558 2011-02-21 18:34:14 <ArtForz> first halving to 25BTC/block, that is
2559 2011-02-21 18:34:22 <Syke_> If I were to change one thing it would be the halving of mined coins.
2560 2011-02-21 18:34:31 <toad_> gasteve: those are basically my proposals, would be interested in input
2561 2011-02-21 18:34:41 <gwillen> if I am running the standard client with 'generate coins' unchecked, does it mean I am not actually helping to make teh chain?
2562 2011-02-21 18:34:46 <ArtForz> I wouldv'e much preferred a continous function
2563 2011-02-21 18:34:54 <gwillen> ArtForz: yeah, I thnk that would have been much better
2564 2011-02-21 18:34:59 <bk128> why didn't they make generation linear to 2033?
2565 2011-02-21 18:35:39 <bk128> rate of coin generation*
2566 2011-02-21 18:35:49 <midnightmagic> has satoshi actually laid-out all the reasoning behind most of bitcoin somewhere?
2567 2011-02-21 18:35:57 <ArtForz> I dont think so
2568 2011-02-21 18:36:09 <toad_> doesn't the rate of coin generation depend on time? i thought you said bitcoin didn't depend on time at all?
2569 2011-02-21 18:36:21 <ArtForz> but lots of constants appear to be chosen too well for "just pulled it out of my ass"
2570 2011-02-21 18:36:24 <ArtForz> it doesnt
2571 2011-02-21 18:36:31 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2572 2011-02-21 18:36:33 <ArtForz> block payout halves every 210000 blocks iirc
2573 2011-02-21 18:36:35 <bk128> or what year does it stop...
2574 2011-02-21 18:36:36 <midnightmagic> i have a problem with that.
2575 2011-02-21 18:36:37 <gasteve> toad_: what does it mean to "find the best f(x) for that specific block?"  ...I presume by doing useful work you mean computing gene sequencing or searching the skies for evidence of ET? or something like that?
2576 2011-02-21 18:36:43 <toad_> gasteve: right
2577 2011-02-21 18:36:58 <toad_> gasteve: lets say protein folding - X is the seed to a random number generator which decides what the configuration of the molecule is
2578 2011-02-21 18:37:12 <ArtForz> the only notion of "time" we trust is "one block is somewhere about 10 minutes on average"
2579 2011-02-21 18:37:14 <toad_> gasteve: and f(X) is the energy level of the resulting molecular configuration
2580 2011-02-21 18:37:29 <mmarker> Ok, anyone good at understanding bit logic in SHA-2? Have a question about the Chi (E ^ F) ^ (~E ^ G) function.
2581 2011-02-21 18:37:31 <ArtForz> so 2016 blocks between difficulty adjustemnts = about 2 weeks average
2582 2011-02-21 18:37:39 <mmarker> and I am a dumbass, I just realized what I need to do
2583 2011-02-21 18:37:42 <ArtForz> yes, thats the same as that ARM opcode
2584 2011-02-21 18:38:06 <toad_> gasteve: you can do the same thing with a LOT of useful computational tasks
2585 2011-02-21 18:38:37 <ArtForz> problem is, you need something thats small enough and easy to verify
2586 2011-02-21 18:38:42 <toad_> gasteve: and i define a block this way: it's not f(X), it's f ( A concat B )
2587 2011-02-21 18:38:45 <mmarker> Reading it, couldn't comprehend, typing, it would be VBSL F, G, E
2588 2011-02-21 18:38:58 <mmarker> Let's try it
2589 2011-02-21 18:38:59 <toad_> where A is fixed and you want to find B
2590 2011-02-21 18:39:03 <ArtForz> I'd guess so, my ARM asm sucks
2591 2011-02-21 18:39:17 <toad_> ArtForz: right, that reduces the possible problems somewhat ...
2592 2011-02-21 18:39:33 <toad_> ArtForz: how easy does it need to be to verify?
2593 2011-02-21 18:40:05 <toad_> ArtForz: there are _some_ useful problems that are really easy to verify e.g. optimal golomb rulers ...
2594 2011-02-21 18:40:07 <ArtForz> several orders of magnitude easier than solving, probably at least 1e10 or so
2595 2011-02-21 18:40:33 * toad_ wonders how long it takes for a single monte carlo computation in folding@home
2596 2011-02-21 18:40:34 <gasteve> toad_: it seems like it should be doable, but the hard part might be in knowing the difficulty of the problem in advance (like we know about the crypto hashing)
2597 2011-02-21 18:40:39 <mmarker> ArtForz: mine is horribly rusty
2598 2011-02-21 18:40:49 <toad_> gasteve: what about my second proposal?
2599 2011-02-21 18:40:54 <ArtForz> well, write some simple test code
2600 2011-02-21 18:41:02 <mmarker> I have :D
2601 2011-02-21 18:41:09 <ArtForz> have one routine do Ch() the manual way, the other use the opcode
2602 2011-02-21 18:41:14 <mmarker> waiting for the compiler to spew an answer
2603 2011-02-21 18:41:19 <ArtForz> see if they produce the same output ;)
2604 2011-02-21 18:41:22 <toad_> gasteve: my second proposal means we only have to know the difficulty of doing ONE run of the algorithm - not the difficulty of finding a new best
2605 2011-02-21 18:41:33 <ArtForz> I did exactly that when plying with BFI_INT on HD5xxx
2606 2011-02-21 18:41:40 <jgarzik> a self-test at the beginning of cpuminer would certainly be nice.
2607 2011-02-21 18:41:57 <ArtForz> which does the same thing, ch() in 1 opcode
2608 2011-02-21 18:41:59 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2609 2011-02-21 18:42:02 <mmarker> jgarzik: I need to figure out how to take data from blockexplorer and regurgitate it into a getwork
2610 2011-02-21 18:42:03 <toad_> gasteve: so it's completely predictable - provided that the anti-cheating mechanism works
2611 2011-02-21 18:42:06 <ArtForz> oh, and you can also use it to speed up maj()
2612 2011-02-21 18:42:27 <toad_> gasteve: i don't know whether the anti-cheating mechanism is viable given the rest of bitcoin's architecture, that's the catch
2613 2011-02-21 18:42:28 <mmarker> artforz: baby steps. Right now, I'm fighting a nearly 10x slowdown with NEON vs standard ARM asm
2614 2011-02-21 18:42:28 <gasteve> toad_:  does that imply a halting problem though?  where you have to solve the problem first before you can know the difficulty...in which case, someone will have an answer before everyone else
2615 2011-02-21 18:42:43 <mmarker> I think it's gcc being dumb and doing a lot of memory saves.
2616 2011-02-21 18:42:57 <ArtForz> oh yeah, thats always a problem
2617 2011-02-21 18:42:58 <toad_> gasteve: no, we're fixing the difficulty by saying we examine every possible B (unless we're cheating), and there are only 2^(length of B in bits) possibles
2618 2011-02-21 18:43:13 <mmarker> Hmm, that one change got me 10k more hash
2619 2011-02-21 18:43:27 <mmarker> still off. (90khash NEON, 273khash std asm)
2620 2011-02-21 18:43:33 <ArtForz> that sounds WAY too slow
2621 2011-02-21 18:43:39 <mmarker> Yea
2622 2011-02-21 18:43:50 <mmarker> I may have to dump the assembly and just redo it all by hand
2623 2011-02-21 18:43:56 <ArtForz> NEON should be at least 5x that
2624 2011-02-21 18:43:56 <gasteve> btw, you would also have an issue where some people might like to use btc, but don't want their hardware used for finding ET
2625 2011-02-21 18:44:00 <gwillen> ultimately it seems like any attempt to do useful work with bitcoin will be foiled by the fact that it must not be possible to precompute any part of the problem until you see the hash of the previous block
2626 2011-02-21 18:44:02 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2627 2011-02-21 18:44:15 <toad_> gasteve: A is fixed and derived from the last block hash; B is unknown and n bits long; if we are not cheating, the computational cost will be 2^n * (single run cost); the output is the B that gives the lowest value of f
2628 2011-02-21 18:44:19 <gwillen> and then it must still somehow be possible to extract useful work afterwords
2629 2011-02-21 18:44:21 <toad_> this prevents precomputation
2630 2011-02-21 18:44:41 <ArtForz> how do you verify that all Bs have been checked?
2631 2011-02-21 18:45:07 <mmarker> Waaait a second, I can do a stupid simple check with jgzarik's miner, everything nulled out
2632 2011-02-21 18:45:07 <toad_> however it needs an anti-cheating mechanism: miners can't spend their blocks until X blocks have been generated (globally), and in this time somebody can find a counterexample (a B which gives a lower f for the same A)
2633 2011-02-21 18:45:17 <mmarker> since I know the C code is good.
2634 2011-02-21 18:45:23 <toad_> if they do, they get ALL the coins from the dishonest miner
2635 2011-02-21 18:45:36 <toad_> that is, the ones that the miner is holding on to, that he can't spend yet
2636 2011-02-21 18:45:57 <toad_> this is obviously going to fall down if the anti-cheating mechanism doesn't work ...
2637 2011-02-21 18:46:03 chaord has left ()
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2639 2011-02-21 18:46:29 <ArtForz> hmmm
2640 2011-02-21 18:46:35 <ArtForz> sounds possible
2641 2011-02-21 18:46:39 <toad_> ArtForz: you're gonna tell me it can't work because bitcoin's architecture doesn't allow that sort of asynchronous signal or something?
2642 2011-02-21 18:46:41 <ArtForz> but who would do the checking?
2643 2011-02-21 18:46:53 <toad_> ArtForz: anyone, opportunistically, at random, and without telling anyone else
2644 2011-02-21 18:47:03 <ArtForz> if I can try to find new Bs and get X/h or do doublechecking and most likely get... nada, why would I do doublechecking?
2645 2011-02-21 18:47:06 <toad_> meaning other miners
2646 2011-02-21 18:47:21 <ArtForz> = you get a kinda tragedy of the commons situation
2647 2011-02-21 18:47:32 <ArtForz> it's more profitable for everyone to leave the doublechecking to soemone else
2648 2011-02-21 18:47:34 <toad_> well yes if there is never any cheating
2649 2011-02-21 18:47:50 <gasteve> seems like solving the problem of reducing power usage (by having the network establish a starting time for next block creation) would be easier than generalizing it to use arbitrary functions (the properties of which run the risk of not being as well understood as the crypto algorithms)
2650 2011-02-21 18:48:05 <toad_> gasteve: very possibly
2651 2011-02-21 18:48:19 <ArtForz> again, the whole hash chain is *because* agreeing on time is damn hard
2652 2011-02-21 18:48:20 <mmarker> what;'s the lowest value of the 32 bit difficulty? 0x0?
2653 2011-02-21 18:48:37 <gasteve> then give the clients the ability to run arbitrary, and useful, functions on their hardware in between the work on generating btc blocks
2654 2011-02-21 18:48:50 <ArtForz> if you can securely agree on time across the network, you don't NEED a proof-of-work chain
2655 2011-02-21 18:48:52 <tcatm> mmarker: nonce? 0..2^32
2656 2011-02-21 18:49:06 <tcatm> mmarker: nbits?
2657 2011-02-21 18:49:14 <toad_> ArtForz: is it possible to make the payoff high enough that it's worth checking for cheating?
2658 2011-02-21 18:49:40 <mmarker> no, the value of difficulty. I know the max is 0x1d00ffff
2659 2011-02-21 18:49:42 <ArtForz> toad_: thats a good question, I don't know
2660 2011-02-21 18:49:52 <gasteve> ArtForz: it's not about agreeing on time though
2661 2011-02-21 18:49:53 bk128 has joined
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2663 2011-02-21 18:49:53 bk128 has joined
2664 2011-02-21 18:49:57 <ArtForz> lowest possible target is nbits 0x00 = 0
2665 2011-02-21 18:50:09 <ArtForz> = you're looking for h(something) == 0
2666 2011-02-21 18:50:22 <mmarker> I think it's 0x1d00ffff
2667 2011-02-21 18:50:30 <mmarker> I'm getting target and difficulty mixed up
2668 2011-02-21 18:50:58 <ArtForz> difficulty is simply (0xFFFF << 208) / current target
2669 2011-02-21 18:51:05 <bk128> ArtForz: aticonfig won't let me set my gpu clock >900 or memory < 1200.  how do you hack it?
2670 2011-02-21 18:51:15 <bk128> and does it void the warranty?
2671 2011-02-21 18:51:26 <ArtForz> RBE, and ... in theory, yes
2672 2011-02-21 18:52:01 <bk128> windows only?
2673 2011-02-21 18:52:03 <ArtForz> use atiflash to save card BIOS to file, use RBE on windows (can be a VM) to edit the max Oc values in BIOS, back to dos bootstick and flash the hacked bios
2674 2011-02-21 18:52:15 <ArtForz> atiflash is DOS only
2675 2011-02-21 18:52:23 <ArtForz> the windows flash tool is horribly flaky
2676 2011-02-21 18:52:46 <bk128> ok.  can you bak up the original bios?
2677 2011-02-21 18:52:51 <ArtForz> yes
2678 2011-02-21 18:52:57 <jgarzik> mmarker: or just run cpuminer on x86 until it finds H==0, and store that getwork data
2679 2011-02-21 18:53:09 <jgarzik> mmarker: it's pretty quick on multi-core
2680 2011-02-21 18:53:11 <ArtForz> and even if you flash a totally wrong bios, just put the card in as 2nd card, boot to DOS, flash it again
2681 2011-02-21 18:53:36 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2682 2011-02-21 18:53:46 <ArtForz> did that once, flashed a 5770 with a 5870 BIOS on accident
2683 2011-02-21 18:54:02 <gasteve> it's about having the network agree on a number that must be a part of the next block...and the clients would only start proposing/accepting such numbers as a point in time beyond the time the received the last block...but, I'll admit, it seems like it very well may be the case that in order to ensure that's done fairly, you basically have to use proof of work (which is basically "1 vote per cpu")...in which case you are back to square one
2684 2011-02-21 18:54:16 <ArtForz> thats what you get for naming your hacked bioses s5770.rom and s5870.rom ...
2685 2011-02-21 18:54:59 bk128_ has joined
2686 2011-02-21 18:55:22 bk128 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2687 2011-02-21 18:55:22 bk128_ is now known as bk128
2688 2011-02-21 18:55:23 <toad_> ArtForz: i guess either you appeal to altruism/fairness, or to the promise of a random big payoff (how many people play the lottery or buy prize bonds?), or you assume there will always be some uncaught cheating ... which is probably true as while looking for cheats isn't profitable if there aren't any cheats, cheating definitely is profitable ...
2689 2011-02-21 18:56:09 echelon has joined
2690 2011-02-21 18:56:45 bitcoiner has joined
2691 2011-02-21 18:56:47 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2692 2011-02-21 18:57:14 bk128 has quit (Client Quit)
2693 2011-02-21 18:57:47 <toad_> ArtForz: another problem is cheating could be regarded as a DoS attack - if you always evaluate only one sample, you can generate blocks ridiculously fast ... but they'll all be taken off you as soon as somebody else finds a counterexample ... hmmmm
2694 2011-02-21 18:58:26 <ArtForz> sounds like a bit of a problem
2695 2011-02-21 18:58:37 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2696 2011-02-21 18:58:53 <toad_> ArtForz: really the problem is large-scale cheating, and it's in large-scale miners' interest to check each other's calculations because their competitors will  have a lot of coins
2697 2011-02-21 18:59:25 <toad_> no, that relies too heavily on identity ... hmmm
2698 2011-02-21 18:59:34 <toad_> sybil sybil sybil sybil :|
2699 2011-02-21 18:59:53 <toad_> large scale cheat would use many identities, so the best you can get for catching him out is one coin
2700 2011-02-21 19:01:41 <mmarker> jgarzik: How do I do that....anyways, I have my solution almost coded :D
2701 2011-02-21 19:01:50 <xelister> ArtForz: would you rather take cheapest 5870 like http://www.ceneo.pl/6424060  or +25% more expensive model wiht some more fancy cooling  like say http://www.ceneo.pl/5810942  ?  actually any of thoes have ballbearing?
2702 2011-02-21 19:02:20 <toad_> unless you force him to hang on to Y number of coins before spending any of them ... rather than making it a global threshold
2703 2011-02-21 19:02:23 <ArtForz> the fan on that HIS doesnt look too bad
2704 2011-02-21 19:03:10 <TheKid> if the HS and fan on the HIS one are anything like the shitty sapphire one I sold to bk128
2705 2011-02-21 19:03:10 <ArtForz> definitely not the same crap fan used by sapphire
2706 2011-02-21 19:03:28 <TheKid> I'd highly recommend getting the better cooler version
2707 2011-02-21 19:03:32 <TheKid> or at least reference
2708 2011-02-21 19:03:47 <ArtForz> http://image.ceneo.pl/data/products/6424060/17008f3b-6b9a-4c15-a85d-ae39756b6b69_product.jpg
2709 2011-02-21 19:03:57 <toad_> in fact you could kill sybil with such rules - generated coins are worth slightly less if the identity is new (make it asymptotic, of course)
2710 2011-02-21 19:04:24 <xelister> ArtForz: so the cheapest one should be fine running 24/7 for say 3 months?
2711 2011-02-21 19:04:31 <gwillen> toad_: identities are mostly always new; for reasons of anonymity people change bitcoin address after every transaction
2712 2011-02-21 19:04:41 <ArtForz> yea
2713 2011-02-21 19:04:42 <toad_> gwillen: i'm talking about miners here
2714 2011-02-21 19:04:44 Lachesis has joined
2715 2011-02-21 19:04:48 <ArtForz> even my sapphires survived 3 moths
2716 2011-02-21 19:04:51 <ArtForz> *months
2717 2011-02-21 19:05:03 <xelister> ArtForz: what happens on failure?
2718 2011-02-21 19:05:09 <gwillen> toad_: are miners identified by anything other than the bitcoin address that the minted coins get sent to?
2719 2011-02-21 19:05:56 <ArtForz> nope
2720 2011-02-21 19:06:05 <ArtForz> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41b3z%2BsE8TL._SS400_.jpg <- bad fan
2721 2011-02-21 19:06:11 <ArtForz> not the weird blade shape
2722 2011-02-21 19:06:23 <toad_> simplest option is just you can't spend your mined coins until you have a certain number of them - a number large enough to discourage cheating, because you lose all of them when you are caught out
2723 2011-02-21 19:06:27 <ArtForz> so far all REALLY crappy fans I found had that blade design
2724 2011-02-21 19:06:44 genjix has joined
2725 2011-02-21 19:07:02 <toad_> so when you get the proof of work and make a block, you have to sign it with an identity; after that identity accumulates X coins they can be spent
2726 2011-02-21 19:07:02 <ArtForz> probably all from the same backyard factory in china ;)
2727 2011-02-21 19:07:27 <toad_> or rather, coins before [ this coin's number ] - X can be spent
2728 2011-02-21 19:07:39 <genjix> while soldering a new poker jack to my laptop, a small strip broke off... it seems metallic or ceramic, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Genjix_LG_P300_power_jack_below.jpg
2729 2011-02-21 19:07:45 <genjix> the think labelled C500
2730 2011-02-21 19:07:48 lyspooner has joined
2731 2011-02-21 19:07:54 <kupo> hey is everyone aware sdf uses bitcoins for validation?
2732 2011-02-21 19:07:57 <jgarzik> mmarker: in submit_work(), write the work struct (which is verbatim 'getwork' input) somewhere
2733 2011-02-21 19:07:57 <TheKid> genjix: it's a resistor
2734 2011-02-21 19:07:59 <genjix> solder a new bridge or just leave it?
2735 2011-02-21 19:08:03 <genjix> oh fuck me
2736 2011-02-21 19:08:08 <jgarzik> mmarker: then wait until a solution is found on a pool or testnet
2737 2011-02-21 19:08:10 <toad_> ArtForz: possible?
2738 2011-02-21 19:08:15 <genjix> fuck... am I fucked?
2739 2011-02-21 19:08:18 <TheKid> or I believe it is anyway
2740 2011-02-21 19:08:18 <kupo> ;pool
2741 2011-02-21 19:08:24 <phantomcircuit> kupo, sdf?
2742 2011-02-21 19:08:26 <TheKid> not necessarily, it might be unnecessary if you bridge it
2743 2011-02-21 19:08:32 <ArtForz> genjix: where?
2744 2011-02-21 19:08:37 <genjix> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Genjix_LG_P300_power_jack_below.jpg
2745 2011-02-21 19:08:39 <genjix> C500
2746 2011-02-21 19:08:40 <TheKid> does the jack go over it or could you fit a real resistor there?
2747 2011-02-21 19:08:43 <kupo> phantomcircuit: super dimensional fortress an ooooold unix shell provider
2748 2011-02-21 19:08:45 Muskie has joined
2749 2011-02-21 19:08:46 <genjix> that little line.
2750 2011-02-21 19:08:50 <ArtForz> C = capacitor
2751 2011-02-21 19:09:02 <ArtForz> probably just a small decoupling cap
2752 2011-02-21 19:09:09 <TheKid> ah, didn't realize they came in that form factor
2753 2011-02-21 19:09:09 <andrew12> just set up another bitcoin tor hidden service: wdqfilmcajsfgk5h.onion
2754 2011-02-21 19:09:10 <tcatm> genjix: connection between C500 and pin?
2755 2011-02-21 19:09:11 <Muskie> Yo all
2756 2011-02-21 19:09:17 <TheKid> hi Muskie
2757 2011-02-21 19:09:18 <genjix> tcatm: yep
2758 2011-02-21 19:09:25 <andrew12> unsure if it works yet
2759 2011-02-21 19:09:31 <ArtForz> toad_: not sure
2760 2011-02-21 19:09:50 <Muskie> Just learnt about BTC.. interesting concept, I can see this going pretty far if you get some media coverage lol
2761 2011-02-21 19:10:11 bk128 has joined
2762 2011-02-21 19:10:11 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
2763 2011-02-21 19:10:11 bk128 has joined
2764 2011-02-21 19:10:16 <TheKid> I've actually been thinking
2765 2011-02-21 19:10:18 <ArtForz> whats the pin it's connected to? "plug present" switch-to-ground of socket?
2766 2011-02-21 19:10:23 <TheKid> and if Google were to adopt bitcoins, that'd be great
2767 2011-02-21 19:10:31 <ArtForz> if it is, it's probably just a small cap to reduce contact bounce
2768 2011-02-21 19:10:42 <tcatm> genjix: just solder a small piece of wire from C500 to the pin
2769 2011-02-21 19:10:44 <TheKid> preferrably if they used the block chain that is already started
2770 2011-02-21 19:10:44 <ArtForz> = probably not really needed
2771 2011-02-21 19:10:53 <toad_> ArtForz: fair enough, just bouncing ideas
2772 2011-02-21 19:10:56 <ArtForz> yeah, if just the trace is broken, repalce it :P
2773 2011-02-21 19:11:00 <TheKid> but even if they start their own based on the same software, it would be awesome
2774 2011-02-21 19:11:10 <Muskie> I have but one question.
2775 2011-02-21 19:11:14 <genjix> tcatm: ok
2776 2011-02-21 19:11:19 <genjix> thanks
2777 2011-02-21 19:11:21 <gwillen> kupo: at what point in the process does SDF ask for bitcoins?
2778 2011-02-21 19:11:22 <Muskie> Exactly what IS a block?
2779 2011-02-21 19:11:26 <gwillen> kupo: I can't find anything about it on the site
2780 2011-02-21 19:11:54 <TheKid> Muskie: it's a collection of transactions with a proof of work hash tying it all together
2781 2011-02-21 19:12:06 <ArtForz> what TheKid said
2782 2011-02-21 19:12:06 <TheKid> according to my understanding, and it's certainly not the technical explanation
2783 2011-02-21 19:12:10 <TheKid> sweet I'm right :D
2784 2011-02-21 19:12:14 <genjix> ha itt *is* a resistor
2785 2011-02-21 19:12:18 <ArtForz> wtf?
2786 2011-02-21 19:12:19 <TheKid> ?
2787 2011-02-21 19:12:23 <xelister> ArtForz: so on failure the card will just slow down due to auto throlling due to no cooling?
2788 2011-02-21 19:12:23 <genjix> i can see the coloured bands on the screenshot
2789 2011-02-21 19:12:28 <ArtForz> resitors are never labeled Csomething
2790 2011-02-21 19:12:29 <Muskie> I know it's a mathematical calculation, but WHat, specifically? I just have this feeling i'm inadvertently providing CPU time to crack the CIA Database passwords or something, lol
2791 2011-02-21 19:12:30 <genjix> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Genjix_LG_P300_power_jack_below.jpg
2792 2011-02-21 19:12:36 <xelister> it will not like, explode all over the PC and rooom?
2793 2011-02-21 19:12:36 <TheKid> aren't caps labeled the same way sometimes?
2794 2011-02-21 19:12:38 <genjix> red on left, green on right
2795 2011-02-21 19:12:42 <tcatm> It's a (probably 100nF) capacitor
2796 2011-02-21 19:12:53 <TheKid> genjix: I think you're seeing things
2797 2011-02-21 19:12:56 <ArtForz> yeah, my guess would ne 100n cap, too
2798 2011-02-21 19:12:58 <genjix> ic. why have they put a capacitor there?
2799 2011-02-21 19:13:00 <kupo> Muskie: ....that would be genius
2800 2011-02-21 19:13:04 <TheKid> though admittedly I'm slightly green insensitive
2801 2011-02-21 19:13:07 <toad_> ArtForz: okay gonna lurk and work on my proper work :)
2802 2011-02-21 19:13:11 <ArtForz> again ,if thats the "plug present" swithc, it's probably for debouncing
2803 2011-02-21 19:13:27 <bk128> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41b3z%2BsE8TL._SS400_.jpg are crappy fans?  TheKid: isn't that the card you just sold me? :p
2804 2011-02-21 19:13:32 <ArtForz> if it's simply center contact, a plain ole anti-RFI decouplig cap
2805 2011-02-21 19:13:39 <toad_> anyone has any comments re useful-work coin generation highlight me
2806 2011-02-21 19:13:54 <kupo> Muskie: but in actuality it's mathmatical hashing
2807 2011-02-21 19:13:54 * toad_ unfortunately not likely to have time to pursue it in the near future
2808 2011-02-21 19:13:59 <kupo> you could just check out the source code
2809 2011-02-21 19:14:28 endian7000 has joined
2810 2011-02-21 19:14:31 <ArtForz> Muskie: sha256(sha256(block header))
2811 2011-02-21 19:14:31 <kupo> who's running that bitpool again?
2812 2011-02-21 19:14:36 <Muskie> THeKid: So, basically i'm literally creating the coins themselves, by calculating their hashtags?
2813 2011-02-21 19:14:40 <lyspooner> Muskie, take the most recent transactions, add a few bits of data including a number that goes up by 1 each time you try, and call all that M.  Then do SHA256(SHA256(M))
2814 2011-02-21 19:14:42 <ArtForz> not exactly useful work
2815 2011-02-21 19:15:02 <Muskie> That's... Brilliant!
2816 2011-02-21 19:15:12 <lyspooner> then try to get S(S(M)) less than Target
2817 2011-02-21 19:15:12 <kupo> you are a fish you know
2818 2011-02-21 19:15:47 <bk128> Muskie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-work_system
2819 2011-02-21 19:17:21 <Muskie> *reads*
2820 2011-02-21 19:17:25 <bk128> TheKid: chatlogs :o TheKid	if the HS and fan on the HIS one are anything like the shitty sapphire one I sold to bk128
2821 2011-02-21 19:17:35 <bk128> rate -10
2822 2011-02-21 19:17:50 <bk128> :p
2823 2011-02-21 19:17:53 <Muskie> so... basically, you're literally working for the money you're creating by calculating hashes to prove you're earning the BTC to give you the BTC?
2824 2011-02-21 19:18:08 <Muskie> ...I kinda get it now, but it's still freaking confuising, lol
2825 2011-02-21 19:18:12 wobber has joined
2826 2011-02-21 19:18:49 <bk128> everyone is guessing billions of numbers and trying to figure out if they work.
2827 2011-02-21 19:18:59 <mmarker> Oops, my code is borked
2828 2011-02-21 19:19:08 <Muskie> But to put it simply, my CPU goes nuts when it's idle, and gives me stuff I can buy used video games and furry porn with.
2829 2011-02-21 19:19:13 <bk128> when someone finds one that matches a pattern (agreed upon by everyone) they create the next block and get coins
2830 2011-02-21 19:19:24 <Muskie> OK! *thumbsup*
2831 2011-02-21 19:19:41 <bk128> we need to get rid of the furries
2832 2011-02-21 19:20:02 <Muskie> *cough* you were saying?
2833 2011-02-21 19:20:04 <endian7000> and the difficulty varies to preserve the predefined new-money-over-time rate
2834 2011-02-21 19:20:05 <TheKid> bk128: :P
2835 2011-02-21 19:20:07 <endian7000> http://www.bitcoinminer.com/
2836 2011-02-21 19:20:08 <mmarker> bk128: Fire. That nylon is flammable
2837 2011-02-21 19:20:18 <TheKid> hey it works for you and I warned you ;)
2838 2011-02-21 19:20:31 <endian7000> people are mining ~261 Ghash/sec
2839 2011-02-21 19:20:37 <bk128> when did you warn me it would burn my house down?
2840 2011-02-21 19:20:48 lyspooner_ has joined
2841 2011-02-21 19:20:53 <bk128> ArtForz: is there a way to make it shut down if that pos fan dies?
2842 2011-02-21 19:21:01 <bk128> easy way*
2843 2011-02-21 19:21:11 <ArtForz> easy? probably not.
2844 2011-02-21 19:21:36 <TheKid> bk128: it'll do it on it's own
2845 2011-02-21 19:21:38 <TheKid> :P
2846 2011-02-21 19:21:43 <ArtForz> actually my 5770s didnt
2847 2011-02-21 19:21:44 <bk128> by starting on fire?
2848 2011-02-21 19:21:44 <lyspooner_> Muskie... think of it more like mining for gold; that analogy tends to work on many levels
2849 2011-02-21 19:21:48 <TheKid> and I don't think it will burn down your house
2850 2011-02-21 19:22:05 <TheKid> ArtForz: did the fans on your sapphire cards die?
2851 2011-02-21 19:22:12 <ArtForz> they happily throttled along with no fans at ~100°C core
2852 2011-02-21 19:22:13 <ArtForz> yep
2853 2011-02-21 19:22:23 <TheKid> huh
2854 2011-02-21 19:22:23 <ArtForz> well, no *wroking* fans
2855 2011-02-21 19:22:28 <mmarker> Hmm. Good or bad sign. I think I used VBSL right
2856 2011-02-21 19:22:30 <Muskie> lyspooner_:  indeed.
2857 2011-02-21 19:22:31 <TheKid> I've never had fans die on me
2858 2011-02-21 19:22:38 <TheKid> reference card still going strong :)
2859 2011-02-21 19:22:41 <ArtForz> TheKid: you haven been using computers long ,eh?
2860 2011-02-21 19:22:41 <mmarker> bad sign is the code is still borked
2861 2011-02-21 19:22:42 <TheKid> anyway brb
2862 2011-02-21 19:22:45 <bk128> maybe my bios has an option to shut down if the chassis fan dies.  can I just hook the fan speed on the sapphire to that?
2863 2011-02-21 19:22:45 <TheKid> installing new psu
2864 2011-02-21 19:22:50 <TheKid> ArtForz: 6 years or so
2865 2011-02-21 19:23:07 TheKid has left ()
2866 2011-02-21 19:23:07 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2867 2011-02-21 19:23:12 lyspooner_ is now known as lyspooner
2868 2011-02-21 19:23:32 <Muskie> also, bk128 ? I bez a furry. don't start with the trolling. i'm here to learn how this shit works, not rub my fuzzy crotch in your face like an idiot. :P
2869 2011-02-21 19:23:52 <bk128> okay.  thanks
2870 2011-02-21 19:24:15 <mmarker> Hmm
2871 2011-02-21 19:24:16 <bk128> please don't be so graphic with those descriptions... lol
2872 2011-02-21 19:24:23 <ArtForz> hehehe
2873 2011-02-21 19:24:46 <Muskie> That bitcoinminer program mentioned GPU based mining, got any links? I think my GT240 might be up to the job when i'm not playing Portal 2 in the future. :P
2874 2011-02-21 19:25:05 <Muskie> Apologies, bk128
2875 2011-02-21 19:25:21 <mmarker> THIS is odd, my bits are reversed.
2876 2011-02-21 19:26:41 <ArtForz> ?
2877 2011-02-21 19:27:04 <ArtForz> so... flip em
2878 2011-02-21 19:27:11 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2879 2011-02-21 19:27:11 Blitzboom has joined
2880 2011-02-21 19:27:29 <mmarker> ArtForz: Nope, it's worse. My nonce counting is all borked. Need to actually printk the right variables :\
2881 2011-02-21 19:27:45 <ArtForz> lol
2882 2011-02-21 19:27:59 <ArtForz> gotta love endianess issues
2883 2011-02-21 19:28:11 <ArtForz> actually I'm running my nonce counter wrong-endian too
2884 2011-02-21 19:28:20 <bk128> mmarker: what are you working on?
2885 2011-02-21 19:28:23 <ArtForz> faster than byteflipping every noce
2886 2011-02-21 19:28:35 <ArtForz> ARM NEON miner
2887 2011-02-21 19:28:37 <mmarker> bk128: ARM assembly
2888 2011-02-21 19:28:52 <ArtForz> completely impractical, but fun.
2889 2011-02-21 19:28:53 <mmarker> artforz: the funny thing it's it's really endin backwards. Not just byteswapped
2890 2011-02-21 19:29:06 <bk128> expensive chips?  what's the theoretical max hash/sec?
2891 2011-02-21 19:30:20 <Blitzboom> guys … we got to do something about this shit http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3697.0
2892 2011-02-21 19:30:27 <Blitzboom> it’s 100% malicious
2893 2011-02-21 19:30:54 <Blitzboom> i say ban downloads without open source code on the forums
2894 2011-02-21 19:31:09 <gwillen> or just ban new users from posting links
2895 2011-02-21 19:31:26 <mmarker> bk128: Embedded CPUs, basically your iPhones, Android phones, set top boxes...
2896 2011-02-21 19:31:48 <Blitzboom> i’m almost sure someone will fall for this
2897 2011-02-21 19:31:53 <Blitzboom> eventually
2898 2011-02-21 19:31:55 <mmarker> bk128: Can be cheap, or expensive. Depends on where you get them from.
2899 2011-02-21 19:32:02 dwdollar has joined
2900 2011-02-21 19:32:25 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2901 2011-02-21 19:32:36 <mmarker> bk128: ARM's business model isn't to really manufacture silicon, they licence their designs to the TIs, Atmels, etc of the world.
2902 2011-02-21 19:32:41 <bk128> Blitzboom: did you look at the exe yet?  just opened it with a hex editor f
2903 2011-02-21 19:32:52 <ArtForz> Blitzboom: analyzing it
2904 2011-02-21 19:32:57 <Blitzboom> no. i have no clue about that
2905 2011-02-21 19:33:11 <bk128> ftps your wallet to him probably
2906 2011-02-21 19:33:23 <Blitzboom> second russian trying this
2907 2011-02-21 19:33:26 <Blitzboom> maybe even the same guy
2908 2011-02-21 19:33:44 <bk128> Blitzboom: same exe.  connecting to the same ftp site
2909 2011-02-21 19:33:51 <bk128> same guy
2910 2011-02-21 19:33:57 <Blitzboom> i meant the other guy
2911 2011-02-21 19:34:06 <ArtForz> VB6? seriously?
2912 2011-02-21 19:34:10 <Blitzboom> with the .jar
2913 2011-02-21 19:34:15 <bk128> oh, never saw that
2914 2011-02-21 19:34:33 dissipate has joined
2915 2011-02-21 19:34:43 <ArtForz> steals wallet.dar
2916 2011-02-21 19:34:45 <Blitzboom> bk128: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3628.0
2917 2011-02-21 19:34:45 <ArtForz> *dat
2918 2011-02-21 19:34:56 <ArtForz> uploads it via ftp to ftp.narod.ru
2919 2011-02-21 19:34:59 <Blitzboom> this is a serious problem imo
2920 2011-02-21 19:35:09 <bk128> only for stupid users :)
2921 2011-02-21 19:35:10 <ArtForz> user: rainerfox pass: 47746225
2922 2011-02-21 19:35:11 <dissipate> yo, anyone know what happens when you run bitcoin behind a nat?
2923 2011-02-21 19:35:15 <jgarzik> bk128: not just
2924 2011-02-21 19:35:26 <jgarzik> bk128: wallet is unecrypted, these sorts of things easier :(
2925 2011-02-21 19:35:28 <Blitzboom> i wouldn’t consider myself stupid. just put trust in the community
2926 2011-02-21 19:35:50 <jgarzik> it was inevitable that wallet-stealing attacks would occur.  the nature of the system.
2927 2011-02-21 19:36:03 <mmarker> dissipate: it works
2928 2011-02-21 19:36:04 <mmarker> I do it
2929 2011-02-21 19:36:10 <bk128> ArtForz: is it write only?  can you get some wallets back?
2930 2011-02-21 19:36:16 <Blitzboom> 99% of users are stupid, jgarzik
2931 2011-02-21 19:36:16 <molecular> dissipate, I do
2932 2011-02-21 19:36:27 <Blitzboom> you want bitcoin to never enter the mainstream?
2933 2011-02-21 19:36:37 <molecular> dissipate, I works fine
2934 2011-02-21 19:36:41 <molecular> dissipate, *it
2935 2011-02-21 19:36:48 <jgarzik> Blitzboom: huh?
2936 2011-02-21 19:37:04 <Blitzboom> if some people lose their wallet they’ll say bitcoin is unsafe
2937 2011-02-21 19:37:06 <molecular> dissipate, wew, wait, I might have forwarded the port...
2938 2011-02-21 19:37:06 <dissipate> mmarker, but can users connect to your node to download blocks etc.?
2939 2011-02-21 19:37:56 <dissipate> in my opinion, the bitcoin client needs work. it's not non-geek friendly, imo.
2940 2011-02-21 19:38:01 <jgarzik> Blitzboom: it is impossible to eliminate that threat.  But we should add on-disk encryption to the wallet (it's built into db4), to ensure it is never stored unencrypted.
2941 2011-02-21 19:38:11 <molecular> dissipate, the rpcport is 8332 and the p2p port is 8333 (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
2942 2011-02-21 19:38:22 <Blitzboom> right
2943 2011-02-21 19:38:29 <Blitzboom> right now you can just copy it and you got it
2944 2011-02-21 19:38:30 <molecular> dissipate, just noticed I have 8333 tcp forward, so can't tell you about the nat
2945 2011-02-21 19:38:33 <Blitzboom> that’s way too easy
2946 2011-02-21 19:38:38 <dissipate> molecular, ok
2947 2011-02-21 19:38:52 <dissipate> Blitzboom, i agree. it's really bad for the average user. :(
2948 2011-02-21 19:38:57 <bk128> ArtForz: wallet.dat up there was empty
2949 2011-02-21 19:39:09 <Blitzboom> if we want average users to use bitcoin, we’ll have to do something about it
2950 2011-02-21 19:39:29 <dissipate> Blitzboom, i agree
2951 2011-02-21 19:39:48 <ArtForz> rhelp opts
2952 2011-02-21 19:40:05 <mmarker> dissipate: IIRC, the code does try to keep a connection open, so yea, you can get some data. You get more if people can connect to you
2953 2011-02-21 19:40:17 <ArtForz> whoosp
2954 2011-02-21 19:40:45 <dissipate> mmarker, right. i guess people can't connect and download the blocks from you without that port open.
2955 2011-02-21 19:40:53 <bk128> whoops?
2956 2011-02-21 19:41:01 <ArtForz> wrong window
2957 2011-02-21 19:42:42 <bk128> fill up his ftp server :)
2958 2011-02-21 19:42:43 TheKid has joined
2959 2011-02-21 19:43:51 <BlueMatt> Why does the client slowly lose connections over time?
2960 2011-02-21 19:43:59 <BlueMatt> Shouldnt it slowly get more over time?
2961 2011-02-21 19:44:10 TD_ has joined
2962 2011-02-21 19:44:17 <BlueMatt> Is it not making any more additional connections after the initial bootstrapping?
2963 2011-02-21 19:44:44 <bk128> unless it has an open port it only picks up 8 connections or so from the irc boostrap.  maybe some disconnect?
2964 2011-02-21 19:45:06 <BlueMatt> But if some disconnect, shouldnt it find others as they come online?
2965 2011-02-21 19:45:16 <ArtForz> yes
2966 2011-02-21 19:45:18 <BlueMatt> ie over time inc or keep the number of connections constant
2967 2011-02-21 19:45:20 CyanDynamo has joined
2968 2011-02-21 19:45:45 <BlueMatt> Whenever I run the client, the number of clients slowly decreases (about 20 every couple hours)
2969 2011-02-21 19:45:45 <ArtForz> without incoming it should try connecting to addr()s seen flying by to stay at 8
2970 2011-02-21 19:46:10 <BlueMatt> ah, so above 8, it doesnt actively try to connect to more?
2971 2011-02-21 19:46:21 <ArtForz> yes
2972 2011-02-21 19:46:40 <BlueMatt> oh, ok fair enough
2973 2011-02-21 19:46:42 <Muskie> You guys really need to add UPnP support :P
2974 2011-02-21 19:46:53 <BlueMatt> but then why does the client find around 100 when it first starts
2975 2011-02-21 19:47:38 <ArtForz> thanks gavin ;)
2976 2011-02-21 19:48:47 <gavinandresen> thanks me?  what did I do?
2977 2011-02-21 19:48:57 <mmarker> Ok, I think I'm smashing the stack now. I need to think about this some more.
2978 2011-02-21 19:49:01 mmarker has quit (Quit: grrr)
2979 2011-02-21 19:49:11 <BlueMatt> mmarker: still not working?
2980 2011-02-21 19:49:20 sethsethseth has joined
2981 2011-02-21 19:49:27 <Muskie> hrmm...
2982 2011-02-21 19:50:12 <Muskie> Exactly what would it take to code an Android-based miner?
2983 2011-02-21 19:50:25 <TD_> why would you do that ?
2984 2011-02-21 19:50:37 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
2985 2011-02-21 19:50:37 TD_ is now known as TD
2986 2011-02-21 19:50:39 <bk128> why?
2987 2011-02-21 19:50:45 <BlueMatt> I believe mmarker is working on an arm core atm
2988 2011-02-21 19:50:45 wobber has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2989 2011-02-21 19:50:51 <Muskie> I mean, My phone's plugged in 50% of the time, I could just leave it plugged in and let the CPU crunch some numbers..
2990 2011-02-21 19:50:52 <molecular> to drain battery in 1 hour ?
2991 2011-02-21 19:50:57 wobber has joined
2992 2011-02-21 19:51:03 TDX_ has joined
2993 2011-02-21 19:51:04 <BlueMatt> But it would get almost no khash/s
2994 2011-02-21 19:51:10 <TD> Muskie: CPUs aren't enough to get any coins these days
2995 2011-02-21 19:51:16 <bk128> Muskie: write a miner for your ti-83 while you're at it :)
2996 2011-02-21 19:51:23 <TD> even with a powerful dual or quad core desktop machine you will wait a loooooong time to win a block
2997 2011-02-21 19:51:24 <Muskie> Umm... it's a 1ghz CPU o.o
2998 2011-02-21 19:51:30 <BlueMatt> if youre gonna do that, do one for my ti89?
2999 2011-02-21 19:51:36 <Muskie> Aha.
3000 2011-02-21 19:51:41 prax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3001 2011-02-21 19:52:05 <Muskie> So the distributed computing needs are far, far beyond the scope of the original program already?
3002 2011-02-21 19:52:11 <endian7000> wonder how many microhash/sec you could do with pencil and paper...
3003 2011-02-21 19:52:41 <bk128> GPUs pretty much crush everything else
3004 2011-02-21 19:52:45 <bk128> except asics
3005 2011-02-21 19:52:45 <Muskie> in other words, the program I downloaded is worthless! whoot. :P
3006 2011-02-21 19:52:48 prax has joined
3007 2011-02-21 19:52:58 <ArtForz> err, disappeared the scam post?
3008 2011-02-21 19:53:00 <Muskie> Mind pointing me to a CUDA-Based miner? :P
3009 2011-02-21 19:53:01 <TD> Muskie: yes
3010 2011-02-21 19:53:10 <bk128> ;;bc,calc 2000
3011 2011-02-21 19:53:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 years, 25 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 10 minutes, and 10 seconds
3012 2011-02-21 19:53:13 <TD> Muskie: see the mining section of the forum
3013 2011-02-21 19:53:22 <jgarzik> Muskie: look on the forums for puddinpop's RPC miners
3014 2011-02-21 19:53:25 <TD> Muskie: the program isn't useless, unless you downloaded jgarziks SSE2 miner ;)
3015 2011-02-21 19:53:30 <bk128> Musike, it would take 2 years to make a 50 coins on a core 2
3016 2011-02-21 19:53:38 <TD> and even then it's not exactly "useless", just the usefulness is very small if you want coins in a reasonale period of time
3017 2011-02-21 19:53:42 <BlueMatt> assuming no difficulty increase
3018 2011-02-21 19:53:57 <ArtForz> a HD5770 is about as fast as 10 opteron 8-core CPUs ...
3019 2011-02-21 19:54:33 <midnightmagic> sounds like an order of magnitude faster!
3020 2011-02-21 19:54:46 <Muskie> yikes. :P
3021 2011-02-21 19:54:48 <ArtForz> yep
3022 2011-02-21 19:55:02 <ArtForz> and a 5770 is like a $110 mid-range card
3023 2011-02-21 19:55:23 <Muskie> allright. so, in true minecrafting tradition, I need to be co-operative and pwoerful?
3024 2011-02-21 19:55:49 <ArtForz> a 5970 is about == 40 high-end CPUs
3025 2011-02-21 19:55:57 <BlueMatt> oh while youre at it, make a minecraft miner via in-game circuitry :)
3026 2011-02-21 19:55:59 <Muskie> I gather I oughtta sign up for one of these Mining unions? :P
3027 2011-02-21 19:56:21 pogden has joined
3028 2011-02-21 19:56:24 <BlueMatt> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ slush's mining pool is the most popular
3029 2011-02-21 19:56:56 <bk128> only 40 high end cpus?
3030 2011-02-21 19:56:59 <ArtForz> yep
3031 2011-02-21 19:57:00 <Muskie> Yeah., right. the most that's been done is a 16-bit ALU so far.. The thing would most probably do 1 hash an Hour. :P
3032 2011-02-21 19:57:44 <Muskie> Blah!
3033 2011-02-21 19:57:49 <ArtForz> a newish opteron or PhenomII gets about 1Mhash per coreGHz
3034 2011-02-21 19:57:56 <Muskie> iRegs are closed :P
3035 2011-02-21 19:58:03 <ArtForz> maybe a bit less
3036 2011-02-21 19:58:23 <TD> haha
3037 2011-02-21 19:58:26 * TD loves minecraft
3038 2011-02-21 19:58:31 <TD> haven't played it for a while though
3039 2011-02-21 19:58:43 <ArtForz> a miner in minecraft gates, genius!
3040 2011-02-21 19:58:48 <bitcoiner> with 4way u can get more than 1mhash
3041 2011-02-21 19:58:53 <Muskie> BlueMatt: The registrations are closed
3042 2011-02-21 19:59:08 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3043 2011-02-21 19:59:15 <ArtForz> bitcoiner: define "more"
3044 2011-02-21 19:59:20 <Muskie> ANy others around?
3045 2011-02-21 19:59:36 <bitcoiner> bit more I was doing 7mhash w my quad
3046 2011-02-21 19:59:44 <ArtForz> what clock?
3047 2011-02-21 19:59:53 <bitcoiner> didnt oc it
3048 2011-02-21 19:59:58 <ArtForz> so.. what clock?
3049 2011-02-21 20:00:15 <bitcoiner> no idea tell me how to know
3050 2011-02-21 20:00:33 <ArtForz> unless it's well < 2GHz, that IS < 1Mhash/coreGHz
3051 2011-02-21 20:00:43 <bitcoiner> oh 2,4
3052 2011-02-21 20:01:00 <BlueMatt> Muskie: most of the pools are overloaded atm due to the recent press
3053 2011-02-21 20:01:05 <ArtForz> 7Mhps / 4 cores / 2.4 GHz = 0.73 Mh coreGhz
3054 2011-02-21 20:01:09 <BlueMatt> might have to mine for yourself for a week or two
3055 2011-02-21 20:01:11 <ArtForz> Mh / coreGHz
3056 2011-02-21 20:01:16 <bitcoiner> using 4 way
3057 2011-02-21 20:01:27 <ArtForz> yes
3058 2011-02-21 20:01:28 <bitcoiner> cpuminer get wat u say
3059 2011-02-21 20:01:34 <bitcoiner> 4way get bit more
3060 2011-02-21 20:01:41 <BlueMatt> I get .789 Mh/coreHz on my i7
3061 2011-02-21 20:01:51 <bitcoiner> using 4way ?
3062 2011-02-21 20:01:55 <BlueMatt> yea
3063 2011-02-21 20:02:04 <jgarzik> still nothing close to GPU
3064 2011-02-21 20:02:13 <BlueMatt> yea
3065 2011-02-21 20:02:15 <ArtForz> my PhenomII here gets about .81
3066 2011-02-21 20:02:21 <bitcoiner> oh I see art
3067 2011-02-21 20:02:28 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3068 2011-02-21 20:02:36 <bitcoiner> nywayz stil pretty useless
3069 2011-02-21 20:02:54 <ArtForz> no clue whwo the guy on the mining comparison page got 16Mhps out of a 8*2GHz opteron
3070 2011-02-21 20:02:58 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3071 2011-02-21 20:03:26 RazielZ has quit ()
3072 2011-02-21 20:03:29 <ArtForz> *how
3073 2011-02-21 20:03:38 <ArtForz> doesnt matter much anyways
3074 2011-02-21 20:05:01 <Muskie> Well, i'm gonna go and get some sleep.. it's 4am here :P
3075 2011-02-21 20:05:09 endian7000 has quit (Quit: endian7000)
3076 2011-02-21 20:05:11 <Muskie> I'll be back in the morning to work this out :P
3077 2011-02-21 20:05:14 <bitcoiner> art do you know which card find your block ?
3078 2011-02-21 20:05:17 <Muskie> Seeya dudes
3079 2011-02-21 20:05:41 Muskie has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3080 2011-02-21 20:05:50 <ArtForz> yes
3081 2011-02-21 20:06:03 tower has joined
3082 2011-02-21 20:06:12 <bitcoiner> with the higher dif do you still get some on 5770 ?
3083 2011-02-21 20:06:50 <afed_> http://openbsd.org/lyrics.html#41
3084 2011-02-21 20:08:39 tower is now known as towerX
3085 2011-02-21 20:15:29 <Syke_> A 5770 gets about a block every 12 days.
3086 2011-02-21 20:17:20 <ArtForz> depends on how fast it is ;)
3087 2011-02-21 20:17:35 <molecular> is 0.3.20 not yet released?
3088 2011-02-21 20:18:14 <Syke_> a single 5770 is probably pushing the bounds of being profitable mining or not
3089 2011-02-21 20:18:22 <ArtForz> nope
3090 2011-02-21 20:18:26 <ArtForz> more like a bit under 9 days with a decent OC and a fast miner
3091 2011-02-21 20:18:30 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3092 2011-02-21 20:18:39 <jgarzik> molecular: kinda sorta yes but not really well maybe
3093 2011-02-21 20:18:40 <jgarzik> :)
3094 2011-02-21 20:18:44 <ArtForz> and a 5770 is about 150W at the plug
3095 2011-02-21 20:18:49 Blitzboom has joined
3096 2011-02-21 20:18:50 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
3097 2011-02-21 20:18:50 Blitzboom has joined
3098 2011-02-21 20:19:23 sabalaba has joined
3099 2011-02-21 20:19:23 <ArtForz> so at current difficulty, a 5770 is still hugely profitable
3100 2011-02-21 20:19:32 <molecular> jgarzik, allright, I'll just wait until I see it on bitcoin.org.
3101 2011-02-21 20:19:59 <BlueMatt> molecular: they need more windows testers, dl it from sourceforge
3102 2011-02-21 20:20:08 <molecular> I'm on linux
3103 2011-02-21 20:20:14 <BlueMatt> well test it anyway
3104 2011-02-21 20:20:25 <molecular> hmm, why not, acutally
3105 2011-02-21 20:20:26 <ArtForz> power cost is like $0.03/h, production 0.23 BTC/h
3106 2011-02-21 20:20:29 <molecular> I will
3107 2011-02-21 20:20:45 <BlueMatt> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/
3108 2011-02-21 20:20:49 <jgarzik> molecular: 0.3.20.01 is useful for the DoS fix, if nothing else
3109 2011-02-21 20:22:02 <edcba> what's new in 0.3.20 ?
3110 2011-02-21 20:22:12 <edcba> what DoS ?
3111 2011-02-21 20:22:18 <molecular> "-rescan"-feature
3112 2011-02-21 20:22:29 <molecular> that's what I know of
3113 2011-02-21 20:22:48 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3114 2011-02-21 20:23:02 <bitcoiner> anyone has the link of the bitcoin icon for merchant ? cant find it anymore
3115 2011-02-21 20:23:11 echelon has joined
3116 2011-02-21 20:23:56 Raulo has joined
3117 2011-02-21 20:23:56 prescott has joined
3118 2011-02-21 20:24:37 <Raulo> Newest Opterons are more than 1Mh/s per 1 GHZ per core
3119 2011-02-21 20:24:58 <Raulo> But still pretty bad compared to GPU
3120 2011-02-21 20:25:30 pogden has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3121 2011-02-21 20:25:50 <Raulo> I tested 4x12 core 1.8GHz opteron: 90GH/s
3122 2011-02-21 20:25:56 <jgarzik> edcba: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/72
3123 2011-02-21 20:26:19 <jgarzik> Raulo: neat.  what power draw?  :)
3124 2011-02-21 20:26:50 <jgarzik> Summary of changes and new features in 0.3.20: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3473.msg48839#msg48839
3125 2011-02-21 20:26:55 <jgarzik> edcba: ^^
3126 2011-02-21 20:27:01 <edcba> thanx :)
3127 2011-02-21 20:27:02 <jgarzik> DoS fix may be 0.3.20.01 though
3128 2011-02-21 20:27:28 <Raulo> jgarzik: no idea. 65W is average draw per CPU so 260W total
3129 2011-02-21 20:27:43 <Raulo> The whole system probably drwas more than 400W
3130 2011-02-21 20:27:45 <jgarzik> Raulo: 260W x 4, then?
3131 2011-02-21 20:27:46 <tcatm> What miner algorithm?
3132 2011-02-21 20:28:09 <jgarzik> ufasoft's 4way is faster than cpuminer's 4way, from what I've read
3133 2011-02-21 20:28:13 <Raulo> No, 65W per CPU. It;s high efficiency type processor
3134 2011-02-21 20:28:17 prax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3135 2011-02-21 20:28:25 <Raulo> 65W x4 all foure processor
3136 2011-02-21 20:28:26 <jgarzik> Raulo: you said 4x12core
3137 2011-02-21 20:28:27 prax has joined
3138 2011-02-21 20:28:42 <Raulo> I was using cpuminer
3139 2011-02-21 20:28:45 <Raulo> Your code
3140 2011-02-21 20:28:53 <jgarzik> Raulo: so it's really 65W x 12 x 4, yes?
3141 2011-02-21 20:29:18 <Raulo> No, it 65W x 4
3142 2011-02-21 20:29:27 <jgarzik> ah, physical CPU, not core
3143 2011-02-21 20:29:52 <Raulo> It's a low power, low voltage, Opteron 6166 HE
3144 2011-02-21 20:30:19 <Raulo> jgarzi: by the way. Have you looked at porting ufasoft code into your miner?
3145 2011-02-21 20:30:49 <Raulo> I tried but I failed
3146 2011-02-21 20:30:56 <tcatm> We could backport some OpenCL improvements to 4way and maybe get it close to 100 GH/s
3147 2011-02-21 20:31:10 <molecular> how can I check how many "free receiving keys" are in wallet.dat? Is it only the ones in "address book -> receiving adresses" or more hidden ones?
3148 2011-02-21 20:31:18 <jgarzik> Raulo: the asm should be the best path.  I have no free time at present, so I keep hoping someone else will take up the task!
3149 2011-02-21 20:31:43 <Raulo> Has anybody tried wthis code with K10 Athlons?
3150 2011-02-21 20:31:44 <jgarzik> tcatm: there are definitely some H==0 optimizations that can be had, at a minimum
3151 2011-02-21 20:31:54 * jgarzik welcomes patches ;-)
3152 2011-02-21 20:32:26 <Raulo> jgarzik: You can skip last 3 SHA-256 rounds that are nore required for H
3153 2011-02-21 20:32:39 <tcatm> 4way already skips them
3154 2011-02-21 20:32:54 <tcatm> Even the first few rounds
3155 2011-02-21 20:33:40 <Raulo> Does it? I don't think so
3156 2011-02-21 20:33:44 <Raulo> SHA256ROUND(b, c, d, e, f, g, h, a, 63, w15);
3157 2011-02-21 20:33:55 <Raulo> This is unnecessary
3158 2011-02-21 20:35:15 <tcatm> At least my code did that at some point but I haven't looked after it since satoshi integrated it into bitcoin.
3159 2011-02-21 20:36:14 <Raulo> Anyway, CPU mining is not completely dead. This Opteron is on par with nVidias
3160 2011-02-21 20:36:33 <Raulo> But of course it's much more expensive
3161 2011-02-21 20:36:43 <ArtForz> I doubt that somehow
3162 2011-02-21 20:37:17 <ArtForz> GTX5xx is ~0.48Mh/W
3163 2011-02-21 20:37:28 <gasteve> you might be able to generalize that to say that CPUs (at least traditional ones) are dead
3164 2011-02-21 20:37:42 <dissipate> cpu mining won't be dead if thousands of people CPU mine. each will get a small share of BTC produced, but their sheer numbers could overtake the GPU miners.
3165 2011-02-21 20:37:55 <ArtForz> no
3166 2011-02-21 20:38:16 <jgarzik> Raulo: yep; somebody suggested that (skip last 3 rounds) in the CPU miner thread, and even provided a small patch
3167 2011-02-21 20:38:24 <dissipate> no?
3168 2011-02-21 20:38:26 <ArtForz> well, not if they have to pay for power
3169 2011-02-21 20:38:44 <ArtForz> and even if you're heating your house with electricity, it makes mroe sense to buy GPUs for heating
3170 2011-02-21 20:38:51 <validus> lol
3171 2011-02-21 20:38:57 <validus> ultimate geek heater. just load up gpu's
3172 2011-02-21 20:39:00 <ArtForz> thats what I'm doing here
3173 2011-02-21 20:39:02 <validus> artforz thats great
3174 2011-02-21 20:39:18 <dissipate> ArtForz, what if a million people download the default client and click 'generate coins?'
3175 2011-02-21 20:39:20 <validus> i lol'd
3176 2011-02-21 20:39:24 <ArtForz> 10kW of GPUs
3177 2011-02-21 20:39:26 <Raulo> jgarzik: I published also a patch early in your thread that is harmless on gcc but make it compile with Intel Compiler
3178 2011-02-21 20:39:36 <Raulo> You may put it upstream
3179 2011-02-21 20:39:47 <ArtForz> dissipate: then a million people will waste money, yay!
3180 2011-02-21 20:39:55 <Raulo> Intel compiler gives 10% speed improvement
3181 2011-02-21 20:40:00 <validus> not like ppl dont waste money anyways
3182 2011-02-21 20:40:06 <ArtForz> well, at least yay! for electricity producers :P
3183 2011-02-21 20:40:11 <jgarzik> Raulo: any chance you would create a pull request?
3184 2011-02-21 20:40:13 <dissipate> ArtForz, and then everyone else would be wasting money too, IMO.
3185 2011-02-21 20:40:13 <validus> just like its not like your pc wont be on
3186 2011-02-21 20:40:31 <validus> actual power consumption that pc's take is over exeggerated alot
3187 2011-02-21 20:40:33 <gasteve> I think CPUs will increasingly look and perform like GPUs (software just needs to catch up to better take advantage of the architecture)
3188 2011-02-21 20:40:47 <validus> ppl are amazed when they see what it actually does take. but i also know running gpu's at full load ya it can add up so im not saying that
3189 2011-02-21 20:40:59 <ArtForz> validus: a decent desktop CPU is about 100W
3190 2011-02-21 20:41:14 <validus> my pc is on 300w. i have 2 opticials, 2 harddrives and a 1 gig video card
3191 2011-02-21 20:41:21 <ArtForz> that sounds awfully high
3192 2011-02-21 20:41:26 <ArtForz> lemme check real quick
3193 2011-02-21 20:41:29 <validus> im not saying get a 300w. but actual consumption is pretty low
3194 2011-02-21 20:41:35 <validus> no im saying i have 300w psu, not using 300w
3195 2011-02-21 20:41:37 <validus> heh
3196 2011-02-21 20:41:41 <dissipate> ArtForz, who says mining will be a profitable enterprise? if tons of people start mining, damn the electricity costs, it won't be profitable, period.
3197 2011-02-21 20:41:51 <ArtForz> yes
3198 2011-02-21 20:42:05 <ArtForz> but thats not exactly a huge threat
3199 2011-02-21 20:42:18 <ArtForz> well, at least not for me ;)
3200 2011-02-21 20:42:30 <Raulo> jgarzik: OK but I have never interacted with github. This is my post: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.msg31333#msg31333
3201 2011-02-21 20:42:34 <validus> this apt complex does some kinda odd billing thing. i just pay teh same every month
3202 2011-02-21 20:42:37 <dissipate> i'm not saying it will happen, but there are plenty of distributed projects out there were people are eating the electricity costs (SETI is one example)
3203 2011-02-21 20:42:41 <validus> dont really matter how much i jack it up
3204 2011-02-21 20:42:57 <ArtForz> yes, but those projects are actually doing something "worthwhile"
3205 2011-02-21 20:42:58 <validus> if they see electricity spike here they just check if your growing pot and t hats about it. and it has to be an insane amount
3206 2011-02-21 20:44:12 <dissipate> ArtForz, in any event, the default client sucks for mining. that needs to change.
3207 2011-02-21 20:44:45 <ArtForz> anyways, so if a million people start cpu mining, and they are 100% of the network, each of them will earn... 0.0072 btc/day
3208 2011-02-21 20:45:33 <ArtForz> unless price increases by a few orders of magnitude, thats barely covering increased fan wear ;)
3209 2011-02-21 20:45:38 <dissipate> ArtForz, true. probably won't happen. unless people are dumb.
3210 2011-02-21 20:45:43 <xelister> validus: lol growing pot?
3211 2011-02-21 20:45:50 <ArtForz> yeah
3212 2011-02-21 20:46:04 <validus> ya
3213 2011-02-21 20:46:19 <validus> i put 4 cfl's at 26w on and my bill rose i think a dollar
3214 2011-02-21 20:46:25 <xelister> dissipate: people /are/ dumb.  People go fight to iraq for oil and USD and they think they are doing it in just cause
3215 2011-02-21 20:46:37 <xelister> and this is supposedly most developed country
3216 2011-02-21 20:46:38 <ArtForz> around here you get a visit from a "fire inspector" (and a bunch of thu... cops with drug dogs) if you use "too much" power in a residental building
3217 2011-02-21 20:46:40 <validus> i just dont have funds to get alot of gpu's
3218 2011-02-21 20:46:49 <dissipate> ArtForz, i think a lot of people might try to mine for awhile, maybe even for a month, and then stop once they realized they won't get anything. i think the default client is misleading.
3219 2011-02-21 20:46:54 <gasteve> yeah, the novelty of mining would wear off and people would just unload their GPUs to gamers on ebay and simply buy or trade btc instead of minin
3220 2011-02-21 20:46:59 <validus> im in ghetto apt's that think their the hilton. plus almost everybody here smokes to lol
3221 2011-02-21 20:47:07 <validus> my neighbors rock
3222 2011-02-21 20:47:30 <ArtForz> fun as hell, as you dont even have to let them in (yes, you have to let the fire inspector in. with two weeks prior written notice ...)
3223 2011-02-21 20:47:39 <validus> yep
3224 2011-02-21 20:47:42 <jgarzik> dissipate: yes, the default client is misleading
3225 2011-02-21 20:47:53 <validus> rest takes warrants, but if done smartly they wont ever notice
3226 2011-02-21 20:48:09 <validus> and they usually want the big guys but in this retarded state a 5 gram plant will land you up to 7 yrs felony first offense
3227 2011-02-21 20:48:21 <ArtForz> yeah, fucking insane
3228 2011-02-21 20:48:43 <xelister> WHAT, HE SMOKES POT? oh my god! Why is he not just drinking like a normal good person? SHOOT HIM SHOOT HIM on sight!
3229 2011-02-21 20:48:44 <xelister> WHAT, HE DRINKS ALCO? oh my god! Why is he not just smoking ganja like a normal good person? SHOOT HIM SHOOT HIM on sight!
3230 2011-02-21 20:49:01 <validus> they went to pass medical pot. and the guy in charge waited for the 4th year in a row a week to late ot submit it. they had 13 state reps backing it
3231 2011-02-21 20:49:09 <validus> i hate this place. cant wait till i leave it again
3232 2011-02-21 20:49:10 <validus> lol
3233 2011-02-21 20:49:40 <TheKid> validus: what state?
3234 2011-02-21 20:49:50 <validus> misery
3235 2011-02-21 20:49:50 <xelister> What, he is watching 17 yo KISSING? DEAR GOD, shoot hat sexuall predator on sight! Why he is not in Iraq murdering children like a good American?!
3236 2011-02-21 20:49:54 <validus> oh i mean missouri
3237 2011-02-21 20:50:09 <validus> they just passed a law you cant have full nudity or topless now to
3238 2011-02-21 20:50:10 <validus> :(
3239 2011-02-21 20:50:15 <TheKid> wait
3240 2011-02-21 20:50:15 <TheKid> what
3241 2011-02-21 20:50:17 <validus> luckily illinois is 20 mins away
3242 2011-02-21 20:50:18 <ArtForz> lol
3243 2011-02-21 20:50:19 <xelister> validus: hm?
3244 2011-02-21 20:50:45 <validus> well i know of 1. but its more of a brothel than a strip club lol
3245 2011-02-21 20:51:00 <xelister> they ban gogo clubs?
3246 2011-02-21 20:51:05 <ArtForz> crazy laws are crazy, people ignore them
3247 2011-02-21 20:51:06 <xelister> but murdering people in iraq is still fine heh
3248 2011-02-21 20:51:09 <validus> they have them here. you just cant have topless now
3249 2011-02-21 20:51:14 <validus> no tits. period
3250 2011-02-21 20:51:15 <xelister> damn american moralfags
3251 2011-02-21 20:51:30 <ArtForz> the child porn laws in .de are fucking insane
3252 2011-02-21 20:51:33 <validus> illinois is 20 mins away. 24/7 bars/clubs, full nudity. rocking
3253 2011-02-21 20:51:35 <xelister> and jgarzik still thinks WTC can't be inside job lol
3254 2011-02-21 20:51:44 <xelister> country that passes such shitty laws can do anything why not
3255 2011-02-21 20:51:57 <ArtForz> fucking a 15yo? perfectly fine. just don't write about it...
3256 2011-02-21 20:52:06 <xelister> btw, ArtForz, your view on probablity that WTC was, at least partially, inside job?
3257 2011-02-21 20:52:21 <ArtForz> no clue, probably we'll never know
3258 2011-02-21 20:52:24 <xelister> e.g. indirectly (CIA inspired the actuall terrorists)
3259 2011-02-21 20:52:27 <ArtForz> yep
3260 2011-02-21 20:52:36 <ArtForz> well, at least partially, CIA trained bin laden and friends ffs
3261 2011-02-21 20:52:39 <xelister> yes
3262 2011-02-21 20:52:56 <validus> you hear about the high school pic things? seniors were taking pics on their phones of juniors flashing them. *boom* sex offenders now
3263 2011-02-21 20:53:05 <xelister> ArtForz: btw, it is perfectly fine to fuck 13 yo in Vatican
3264 2011-02-21 20:53:17 <ArtForz> wow, crazy catholics
3265 2011-02-21 20:53:17 <xelister> the city of god
3266 2011-02-21 20:53:33 <xelister> well, this is what all people where doing everywhere
3267 2011-02-21 20:53:39 <xelister> for like 10,000 past years
3268 2011-02-21 20:53:42 <ArtForz> yep
3269 2011-02-21 20:53:44 <xelister> or maket it 50,000
3270 2011-02-21 20:53:48 <dissipate> can someone give me a good reason why being religious is not considered to be a mental illness?
3271 2011-02-21 20:53:49 <validus> they had a world reknown exorcist say that the vatican was posssessed by demons. and thats why it happend. but wont disclose his evidence
3272 2011-02-21 20:53:59 <validus> gladiators had "boy toys" same country. so hrm......
3273 2011-02-21 20:54:09 <validus> history can teach you all kinds of things.
3274 2011-02-21 20:54:10 <BlueMatt> dissipate: because so many people are, thats about it (not that thats a good reason)
3275 2011-02-21 20:54:42 <dissipate> BlueMatt, haha, yep. that's about it.
3276 2011-02-21 20:54:44 <xelister> people where sexing up  wemen that where ready to procreate since 50,000 years
3277 2011-02-21 20:54:49 prescott has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3278 2011-02-21 20:54:54 <xelister> people where killing eachother and children since 50,000 years
3279 2011-02-21 20:54:57 <xelister> IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE
3280 2011-02-21 20:55:01 <xelister> LETS FIX THE WORLD
3281 2011-02-21 20:55:04 <dissipate> you can have invisible friends, but if it's religion, it's not mental illness.
3282 2011-02-21 20:55:10 <validus> pls for the love of god hit capslock
3283 2011-02-21 20:55:12 <xelister> I know, lets make the FORMER illegal, not the later. that makes perfect sense! lol
3284 2011-02-21 20:55:40 <validus> i dont down anyones religion. your free to believ wha tyou want. but i have great trolls for pushy ass evangelists that dont take the hint
3285 2011-02-21 20:55:44 <validus> and i used to be a hardcore holy roller
3286 2011-02-21 20:55:47 <kupo> xelister: you're the type of person who's ready to junk a whole system because you can't find a niche in it
3287 2011-02-21 20:55:52 <xelister> dissipate: well to be fair, if you say the god "talks to you" then you are considered mentally ill
3288 2011-02-21 20:55:59 <kupo> which is also why you won't suceed
3289 2011-02-21 20:56:00 <xelister> except when you're pope
3290 2011-02-21 20:56:23 <xelister> kupo: to do what in what with what now?
3291 2011-02-21 20:56:25 <TheKid> kupo: what
3292 2011-02-21 20:56:28 <dissipate> xelister, not really, i could be wrong but i don't see psychologists labeling churchgoers as mentally ill.
3293 2011-02-21 20:56:30 <validus> ya i was wondering to
3294 2011-02-21 20:56:41 <TheKid> don't try to defend religion kupo
3295 2011-02-21 20:56:49 <TheKid> that would be stupid mistake #1
3296 2011-02-21 20:56:50 <kupo> TheKid: err why?
3297 2011-02-21 20:57:01 <TheKid> because you're wrong
3298 2011-02-21 20:57:03 <validus> u know what 3 things you dont discuss drunk is. religion, politics and business
3299 2011-02-21 20:57:05 <TheKid> and have no proof
3300 2011-02-21 20:57:06 <BlueMatt> kupo: because it always becomes a troll/flame war
3301 2011-02-21 20:57:07 <validus> neverending argument
3302 2011-02-21 20:57:07 <xelister> kupo: what niche?  I call idiots idiots when I see it
3303 2011-02-21 20:57:18 <xelister> burning witches is stupid
3304 2011-02-21 20:57:33 <validus> arguing religion is like arguing republic vs democrat or something else. it never ends
3305 2011-02-21 20:57:35 <xelister> going OMG FULL MORALFAG ALLERT on two 17 years olds in love etc - is stupid
3306 2011-02-21 20:57:37 <kupo> xelister: calling people idiots doesnt really accomplish anything except form a confrontation with the people you just called idiots
3307 2011-02-21 20:57:41 <xelister> and killing children in iraq is fucking stupid
3308 2011-02-21 20:57:54 <xelister> it is just obejectivly stupid&evil and I call it as I see it
3309 2011-02-21 20:58:03 <kupo> it's not like people don't get called idiots all day long anyhow
3310 2011-02-21 20:58:06 <dissipate> kupo, are you religious?
3311 2011-02-21 20:58:13 <validus> i used to get about 10 fuck you's a day
3312 2011-02-21 20:58:14 <validus> lol
3313 2011-02-21 20:58:18 <kupo> dissipate: what do you think?
3314 2011-02-21 20:58:29 <dissipate> kupo, i'm guessing yes
3315 2011-02-21 20:58:35 <kupo> then you'd be wrong
3316 2011-02-21 20:58:44 <kupo> I'm agnostic at best
3317 2011-02-21 20:58:48 <TheKid> why defend religion then?
3318 2011-02-21 20:58:51 pogden has joined
3319 2011-02-21 20:58:56 <TheKid> it's clearly false and it brainwashes people
3320 2011-02-21 20:59:01 <dissipate> kupo, ok, and why shouldn't religion be considered a mental illness?
3321 2011-02-21 20:59:01 <TheKid> sounds evil to me
3322 2011-02-21 20:59:03 <kupo> but I hate the "holier than thou" arrogance I see with people that bash religeon
3323 2011-02-21 20:59:07 <dissipate> any good reasons out there?
3324 2011-02-21 20:59:14 <kupo> yea I got a good one
3325 2011-02-21 20:59:22 <kupo> let people make their own damn decisions
3326 2011-02-21 20:59:28 <validus> ^^ +1
3327 2011-02-21 20:59:34 <BlueMatt> Seriously, dont argue religion on here, its no where near worth it
3328 2011-02-21 20:59:34 <kupo> like they don't have enough people out there telling them what to do already
3329 2011-02-21 20:59:36 <dissipate> kupo, religion by definition is not 'holier than thou'??
3330 2011-02-21 20:59:36 <validus> but *claused* dont push it down other ppl hardcore
3331 2011-02-21 20:59:37 <validus> heh
3332 2011-02-21 20:59:58 <kupo> dissipate: is that even a statement?
3333 2011-02-21 21:00:04 Lachesis has joined
3334 2011-02-21 21:00:05 <xelister> money -> usa -> age of consent -> war -> relligion -> and again from top   \o/    thats why we love ##bitcoin-dev
3335 2011-02-21 21:00:05 <dissipate> kupo, has nothing to do with the question. i asked why it is not classified as a mental illness. that has nothing to do with decisions. sorry.
3336 2011-02-21 21:00:18 <Lachesis> why does nVidia suck so much for mining?
3337 2011-02-21 21:00:20 <validus> it depends on perspective
3338 2011-02-21 21:00:28 <TheKid> Lachesis: architecture is my guess
3339 2011-02-21 21:00:30 <kupo> dissipate: in all honesty it's not a mental illness because the majority of the world still buys in
3340 2011-02-21 21:00:30 <BlueMatt> Lachesis: been wondering the same
3341 2011-02-21 21:00:35 <kupo> and it will continue to be
3342 2011-02-21 21:00:39 <TheKid> it's not as good at fixed point
3343 2011-02-21 21:00:47 <kupo> it's an effective and long lived meme
3344 2011-02-21 21:01:10 <dissipate> kupo, and you classify 'mental illness' based on what the majority believes? pretty shaky ground there. :(
3345 2011-02-21 21:01:11 <kupo> and people running around calling the majority mentally ill won't probably work so good
3346 2011-02-21 21:01:27 <xelister> Lachesis: because Ati sucks dongs about drivers quality. They where drawing straws in 2001
3347 2011-02-21 21:01:34 <kupo> dissipate: i didn't classify anything you're the one claming it's mental illness not I
3348 2011-02-21 21:01:39 <TheKid> xelister: AMD drivers are pretty good imo
3349 2011-02-21 21:01:41 <TheKid> nowadays anyway
3350 2011-02-21 21:01:52 <BlueMatt> didnt use to be though
3351 2011-02-21 21:01:53 <xelister> TheKid: AMD drivers are actually excelent, about sucking 5 big dongs at once!
3352 2011-02-21 21:02:01 <TheKid> I think you're wrong
3353 2011-02-21 21:02:09 <validus> better but nowhere near what they should be
3354 2011-02-21 21:02:14 <kupo> dissipate: so lets hear your convincing argument when you're ready
3355 2011-02-21 21:02:15 <dissipate> kupo, so scientific observations need to be based on majority belief and on the fact that it will do 'no good' to call out the majority for their beliefs. hmm.
3356 2011-02-21 21:02:23 <BlueMatt> But that doesnt answer why nvidia is worse for mining?
3357 2011-02-21 21:02:24 <xelister> TheKid: try disable xfire crap, or use dualheaded without crashing the box each few days
3358 2011-02-21 21:02:25 <TheKid> I've had one bug with AMD drivers in my time with an ATI card
3359 2011-02-21 21:02:38 <TheKid> er, AMD card
3360 2011-02-21 21:02:44 <kupo> dissipate: again is that a statement? a question? a smirky remark?
3361 2011-02-21 21:02:46 <TheKid> disable xfire crap?
3362 2011-02-21 21:02:56 <Lachesis> crossfire
3363 2011-02-21 21:02:59 <xelister> TheKid: disable cross fire. you need it to mine correctly on multi gpu
3364 2011-02-21 21:03:05 <TheKid> no
3365 2011-02-21 21:03:11 <TheKid> I've mined correctly with crossfire
3366 2011-02-21 21:03:14 <xelister> haha you mine on gpu WITH crossfire
3367 2011-02-21 21:03:15 <xelister> HAHAHAHAHAHHA
3368 2011-02-21 21:03:17 <xelister> lol :>
3369 2011-02-21 21:03:18 <dissipate> kupo, invisible friends, strong irrational belief in unprovable and unproved fables, absolutist thinking, denial of scientific facts... it goes on and on.
3370 2011-02-21 21:03:26 <TheKid> xelister: you clearly don't know what you're talking about
3371 2011-02-21 21:03:28 <xelister> TheKid: flash news!  YOU ARE MINING AT HALF-SPEED lol
3372 2011-02-21 21:03:29 RichardG has joined
3373 2011-02-21 21:03:31 <TheKid> and act like a little kid
3374 2011-02-21 21:03:33 <kupo> dissipate: and you feel that applies to every religeon?
3375 2011-02-21 21:03:33 <TheKid> so
3376 2011-02-21 21:03:35 <TheKid> I'ma go get food
3377 2011-02-21 21:03:38 <xelister> TheKid: you are mining at half speed iito
3378 2011-02-21 21:03:40 <xelister> * idiot
3379 2011-02-21 21:03:45 <xelister> ArtForz: tell him
3380 2011-02-21 21:03:52 * xelister gives up
3381 2011-02-21 21:03:54 <dissipate> kupo, every religion has invisible friends as far as i know.
3382 2011-02-21 21:03:54 <ArtForz> tried to, gave up
3383 2011-02-21 21:03:57 <xelister> ha
3384 2011-02-21 21:03:58 genjix_ has joined
3385 2011-02-21 21:03:59 <Lachesis> ArtForz, lol
3386 2011-02-21 21:04:00 * xelister highfives ArtForz
3387 2011-02-21 21:04:04 <kupo> dissipate: like being a rational person is completely at odds with being a religeous one?
3388 2011-02-21 21:04:07 <andrew12> hey TheKid
3389 2011-02-21 21:04:11 <andrew12> what happened to the minecraft server?
3390 2011-02-21 21:04:18 <TheKid> andrew12: down at the moment, my bad
3391 2011-02-21 21:04:20 <dissipate> kupo, yep, no way around it.
3392 2011-02-21 21:04:21 <TheKid> I'll bring it back up
3393 2011-02-21 21:04:22 <Lachesis> i love how we're talking about religion and mining at the same time :)
3394 2011-02-21 21:04:24 <kupo> despite the long history of rational scientists, leaders, and writers out there?
3395 2011-02-21 21:04:26 <xelister> TheKid: hey genious, half of your results (the one on 2nd gpu) are all invalid, but what ever you wish ;)
3396 2011-02-21 21:04:33 <validus> well irc = extreme ADHD
3397 2011-02-21 21:04:36 <kupo> dissipate: that also happened to be religeous
3398 2011-02-21 21:04:36 <Lachesis> xelister, why are the second half all invalid?
3399 2011-02-21 21:04:36 <dissipate> kupo, religion by definition is the shutting down of logical thought. it's based on faith.
3400 2011-02-21 21:04:39 <genjix_> ArtForz and tcatm: thank you. my laptop works now :DDDD!!! I'm so extremely happy
3401 2011-02-21 21:04:46 <Lachesis> genjix, yay!
3402 2011-02-21 21:04:47 <validus> if you cant multitask you probably are gonna have problems on irc lol
3403 2011-02-21 21:04:51 <kupo> dissipate: thats your "definition" or religeon
3404 2011-02-21 21:04:56 <kupo> and frankly your problem
3405 2011-02-21 21:05:00 <Lachesis> validus, i waste so much of my life on this channel
3406 2011-02-21 21:05:03 <kupo> or/of
3407 2011-02-21 21:05:03 <xelister> Lachesis: because Amd sucks dongs about drivers. Just OpenCL with crossfire makes invalid results on 2nd gpu. browse forum or ask ArtForz
3408 2011-02-21 21:05:06 <jgarzik> xelister's "9/11 inside job" religion involves invisible friends and unprovable fables, absolutust thinking, denial of scientific facts, ...  :)
3409 2011-02-21 21:05:07 <validus> what life
3410 2011-02-21 21:05:07 <Lachesis> it takes the right group of people before it's any fun
3411 2011-02-21 21:05:14 <dissipate> kupo, not really. it is *the* definition of religion. belief without logical basis, evidence or facts.
3412 2011-02-21 21:05:16 <TheKid> xelister: considering that I get the same amount of invalids now as before (with and without crossfire) I'm pretty sure you're wrong
3413 2011-02-21 21:05:18 <Lachesis> xelister, that's kinda dumb
3414 2011-02-21 21:05:19 <genjix_> Lachesis: I just spent 10 hours soldering a new power jack to my laptop -_-
3415 2011-02-21 21:05:27 <genjix_> tenest time of my life
3416 2011-02-21 21:05:27 <Lachesis> genjix, wow that's a lot of work
3417 2011-02-21 21:05:32 <TheKid> and you have an annoying habit of incorrect spelling and derogatory remarks
3418 2011-02-21 21:05:34 <genjix_> tensest
3419 2011-02-21 21:05:37 <TheKid> I'd appreciate it if you stopped that
3420 2011-02-21 21:05:55 <Lachesis> TheKid, xelister, I wish I had two cards to test that :)
3421 2011-02-21 21:05:58 <xelister> jgarzik: well they didnt have to like by own hands plant their TNT or other stuff like that.  Encrouragin who isn needed.. making sure security skips them... etc also counts.
3422 2011-02-21 21:06:01 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3423 2011-02-21 21:06:06 <kupo> dissipate: I doubt you'd find someone to coincide your definition unprompted
3424 2011-02-21 21:06:06 <Lachesis> but one of them needed to be RMAed
3425 2011-02-21 21:06:24 <dissipate> kupo, what is your definition of religion?
3426 2011-02-21 21:06:34 <xelister> jgarzik: also you of course do know that Bin Laden /was/ trained in fact by cia? and his friends. And the weapons, they didnt coined them in caves in afghan
3427 2011-02-21 21:06:38 <TheKid> kupo, dissipate, take it to pm
3428 2011-02-21 21:06:44 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3429 2011-02-21 21:06:49 <xelister> Lachesis: or 5970 - it has 2 GPUs on one card
3430 2011-02-21 21:06:49 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3431 2011-02-21 21:06:52 <TheKid> or #bitcoin-conspiracy
3432 2011-02-21 21:06:55 <Lachesis> xelister, fair enough
3433 2011-02-21 21:06:58 <kupo> TheKid: I'm seeing little value in continuing anyhow
3434 2011-02-21 21:07:02 <xelister> TheKid: what invalids?
3435 2011-02-21 21:07:06 Netsniper has joined
3436 2011-02-21 21:07:14 <TheKid> xelister: invalid results
3437 2011-02-21 21:07:16 <xelister> TheKid: there should be no invalid blocks. perhaps 1 in 100 block might be canceled by chain split
3438 2011-02-21 21:07:25 <TheKid> pool mining
3439 2011-02-21 21:07:26 <xelister> TheKid: when I worked on 5970 I had NO INVALID BLOCKS
3440 2011-02-21 21:07:36 <TheKid> yeah neither do I
3441 2011-02-21 21:07:40 <xelister> TheKid: you use 2-gpu and you joined a pool?  Why?
3442 2011-02-21 21:07:43 <Lachesis> xelister, i got a single invalid using jgarzik's miner
3443 2011-02-21 21:07:46 <Lachesis> idk what it was all about
3444 2011-02-21 21:07:48 <TheKid> more consistent results
3445 2011-02-21 21:07:50 <Lachesis> for cpu
3446 2011-02-21 21:07:59 <xelister> I got 3 blocks on new year!
3447 2011-02-21 21:08:04 <xelister> true story
3448 2011-02-21 21:08:06 <xelister> single 5970
3449 2011-02-21 21:08:09 <jgarzik> Yay, bitcoin 0.3.20 is released!
3450 2011-02-21 21:08:10 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3704.0
3451 2011-02-21 21:08:11 <Lachesis> xelister, lucky year
3452 2011-02-21 21:08:14 <xelister> Lachesis: yeap
3453 2011-02-21 21:08:33 <xelister> jgarzik: hurray
3454 2011-02-21 21:08:36 * molecular is still testin the beta
3455 2011-02-21 21:08:36 <molecular> damint
3456 2011-02-21 21:09:15 <genjix_> bitcoinwatch is 1 of 4 sites i check daily ;)
3457 2011-02-21 21:09:39 <TheKid> you only check 4 sites daily?
3458 2011-02-21 21:09:42 <TheKid> that's weird
3459 2011-02-21 21:10:01 <Lachesis> why does it still have $1.00 as 1.08 BTC?
3460 2011-02-21 21:10:01 JDeso has joined
3461 2011-02-21 21:10:04 <xelister> producitivity++
3462 2011-02-21 21:10:05 <lyspooner> bitcoincharts > bitcoinwatch
3463 2011-02-21 21:10:17 <Lachesis> also woah...
3464 2011-02-21 21:10:18 <genjix_> nah bitcoinwatch is best
3465 2011-02-21 21:10:27 <Lachesis> ~217,000 BTC sent in last 24 hrs
3466 2011-02-21 21:10:33 <genjix_> TheKid: yeah and I'm trying to reduce that even more
3467 2011-02-21 21:10:47 <jgarzik> Lachesis: PPUSD is averaged into USD price, alongside LRUSD
3468 2011-02-21 21:10:48 <genjix_> i.e be less of a bitcoin forum whore
3469 2011-02-21 21:11:05 <jgarzik> Lachesis: bitcoinwatch doesn't just look at mtgox, but multiple markets
3470 2011-02-21 21:11:08 <TheKid> what about webcomics?
3471 2011-02-21 21:11:08 <xelister> genjix_: I just like http://mtgox.com/trade/megaChart
3472 2011-02-21 21:11:35 JDeso has quit (Client Quit)
3473 2011-02-21 21:11:44 <lyspooner> bitcoincharts has estimated next difficulty and estimated network power
3474 2011-02-21 21:12:07 <genjix_> so there isn't a working freenet version of bitcoin yet? it's a plan, right?
3475 2011-02-21 21:12:20 JDeso has joined
3476 2011-02-21 21:12:31 <xelister> genjix_: yeap, got like 150/2000 btc pledged for it
3477 2011-02-21 21:12:43 <genjix_> sick
3478 2011-02-21 21:12:49 <xelister> actually 1000 could make quite usable version, like with send&get more or less
3479 2011-02-21 21:13:02 <xelister> up to 2000 for full implementation with chance of mining
3480 2011-02-21 21:13:20 <xelister> you know what would be cool too?  hidden (BtcFn) pooled! mining
3481 2011-02-21 21:13:37 <xelister> so that people have real chance of obtaining their anonymously MINED  totally anonymous coins
3482 2011-02-21 21:13:58 <Lachesis> btcfn?
3483 2011-02-21 21:14:10 <xelister> pay with that to some address found on tor/fn == totally intracable (unless very strong attack on FN)
3484 2011-02-21 21:14:23 <jgarzik> lyspooner: I can add estimated network power to bitcoinwatch, but I'm thinking about dropping difficulty altogether.  Nobody knows what difficulty means, outside of heavy geeks.
3485 2011-02-21 21:14:48 <xelister> Lachesis: bitcoin over freenet protocol. Draft was written(me) and sponsored by da2ce7 -> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.0;all   the description is the long post in the middle
3486 2011-02-21 21:14:55 <jgarzik> even average geeks only know "difficulty is going up!" without actually knowing what the number really means
3487 2011-02-21 21:15:26 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I think most understand at least sort of what it means
3488 2011-02-21 21:15:27 <lyspooner> jgarzik, the average geek wants to compare last week's difficulty to this week's
3489 2011-02-21 21:15:41 <xelister> Lachesis: http://imagebin.org/138208  shows it all in one image
3490 2011-02-21 21:15:43 <BlueMatt> and people might want to know the difficulty, at least for their reference
3491 2011-02-21 21:15:50 <Tril> all you slackers need to forward port 8333 my connection count goes WAY up when I do so. meaning few others are.
3492 2011-02-21 21:15:52 <lyspooner> "it's 40% harder to make money this week"
3493 2011-02-21 21:16:20 <Lachesis> jgarzik, yeah, show last diff, this diff, and forecasted next diff (perhaps only after 300 blocks or something to make it not change wildly)
3494 2011-02-21 21:16:31 <Lachesis> and then include percent change from previous
3495 2011-02-21 21:16:33 <genjix_> jgarzik: yeah drop that stuff
3496 2011-02-21 21:16:36 <jgarzik> lyspooner: such comparisons are more suited to bitcoincharts.com, indeed.  bitcoinwatch is supposed to be a one-page "snapshot" of current bitcoin economy and markets.
3497 2011-02-21 21:16:41 <genjix_> i dont care because i dont generate
3498 2011-02-21 21:16:55 <xelister> jgarzik: show a graph of how many trees died because of all the W needed =)
3499 2011-02-21 21:16:58 <jgarzik> yeah, I doubt most Aunt Tillie bitcoin users care
3500 2011-02-21 21:17:02 <xelister> we are now in 0.5 MW area right?
3501 2011-02-21 21:17:03 <genjix_> jgarzik: also add some more currencies ^^
3502 2011-02-21 21:17:10 <Lachesis> how can you get previous diffs from rpc?
3503 2011-02-21 21:17:14 <jgarzik> genjix_: such as?
3504 2011-02-21 21:17:20 <xelister> Lachesis: can't afaik
3505 2011-02-21 21:17:34 <genjix_> jgarzik: JPY or EUR
3506 2011-02-21 21:17:41 <genjix_> i think BCM offers those
3507 2011-02-21 21:17:45 <xelister> EUR would be nice, yes
3508 2011-02-21 21:17:50 <jgarzik> genjix_: JPY and EUR are already on there.  BCM offers neither.
3509 2011-02-21 21:18:01 <jgarzik> "European Euro"
3510 2011-02-21 21:18:06 <jgarzik> "Japanese Yen"
3511 2011-02-21 21:18:11 <Lachesis> oh man, nullvoid reads the blocks file directly
3512 2011-02-21 21:18:13 <genjix_> i meant at the bottom :p
3513 2011-02-21 21:18:30 benkant has joined
3514 2011-02-21 21:18:30 <genjix_> shows $, RUB, ... it's a bit odd
3515 2011-02-21 21:18:31 <lyspooner> jgarzik, that's cool. as long as somebody keeps it up
3516 2011-02-21 21:18:53 <jgarzik> genjix_: ah, indeed.  Yeah, JPY is difficult because there's never any volume.  So the prices are wacky.  I could add EUR though.
3517 2011-02-21 21:18:54 <BlueMatt> whats a good cfm for a 120mm fan on a water radiator?
3518 2011-02-21 21:18:54 <genjix_> but i really like the economy section
3519 2011-02-21 21:18:59 <benkant> I'm intrigued
3520 2011-02-21 21:19:08 <genjix_> especially to point to people and go look how cool is bitcoin
3521 2011-02-21 21:19:32 <benkant> so i've read the wiki article
3522 2011-02-21 21:19:35 * jgarzik needs to add BC's LREUR
3523 2011-02-21 21:19:38 <jgarzik> to bitcoinwatch.com
3524 2011-02-21 21:19:44 <xelister> what are best things to pay/receive money anonymously for?
3525 2011-02-21 21:19:46 <TheKid> andrew12: server back up
3526 2011-02-21 21:19:51 <xelister> like, obviously good uses
3527 2011-02-21 21:19:51 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: roughly as much as you need
3528 2011-02-21 21:19:57 <BlueMatt> number?
3529 2011-02-21 21:20:14 <benkant> are there any economists in the house?
3530 2011-02-21 21:20:14 <phantomcircuit> xelister, hosting/dns
3531 2011-02-21 21:20:25 <andrew12> TheKid: yay
3532 2011-02-21 21:20:26 <BlueMatt> benkant: check #bitcoin-otc
3533 2011-02-21 21:20:29 <ArtForz> depends on system wattage
3534 2011-02-21 21:20:35 <benkant> thanks BlueMatt
3535 2011-02-21 21:21:03 <ArtForz> for a normal cpu/gpu combo, a 120x240mm rad with 2 scythe slip stream or simialr is plenty
3536 2011-02-21 21:21:03 <lyspooner> xelister, that btcfn image skips instruction (8)
3537 2011-02-21 21:21:04 <xelister> phantomcircuit: yea but hosting of what, why
3538 2011-02-21 21:21:24 <xelister> phantomcircuit: people will be like "omg, hosting PEDORIST stuff"
3539 2011-02-21 21:21:44 <ArtForz> for dual 5970s, 120x360 with 3*delta AFB1212HHE (~5W each) is... barely enough
3540 2011-02-21 21:21:45 <xelister> PIRATORIST stuff
3541 2011-02-21 21:21:49 <genjix_> xelister: piracy
3542 2011-02-21 21:21:55 <xelister> uh
3543 2011-02-21 21:22:01 <genjix_> i am thinking about selling webhosting in iran for BTC
3544 2011-02-21 21:22:06 <genjix_> (iran has no copyright laws)
3545 2011-02-21 21:22:11 <xelister> hm
3546 2011-02-21 21:22:13 <xelister> I thought more like
3547 2011-02-21 21:22:16 <genjix_> so it's immune to DMCA takedowns
3548 2011-02-21 21:22:20 <xelister> donating to sexuall ad raciall minorities
3549 2011-02-21 21:22:22 <xelister> *and
3550 2011-02-21 21:22:38 <xelister> donating to sexuall & raciall minority organizations / websites
3551 2011-02-21 21:22:49 <genjix_> micropayments
3552 2011-02-21 21:22:56 <ArtForz> cfm rating is pretty useless anyway
3553 2011-02-21 21:22:58 <genjix_> and ease of use
3554 2011-02-21 21:22:59 <andrew12> TheKid: now all we need is for you to join the channel again
3555 2011-02-21 21:22:59 <xelister> how about
3556 2011-02-21 21:23:11 <andrew12> but minecraft.net is down right now so we can't do mp
3557 2011-02-21 21:23:12 <ArtForz> you pretty much *need* pressure/flow curves
3558 2011-02-21 21:23:18 <genjix_> annoying having to click loads of stuff to pay for things on the net
3559 2011-02-21 21:23:20 <ArtForz> or just try shit and see if it works
3560 2011-02-21 21:23:30 <xelister> genjix_: well this are arguments for BTC overall, but for the anon- part
3561 2011-02-21 21:23:39 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: well its the best stat that one can look at w/o trying it
3562 2011-02-21 21:23:42 <ArtForz> thats one thing I hate about most PC fans, no decent specs
3563 2011-02-21 21:23:42 <genjix_> oh
3564 2011-02-21 21:23:49 <genjix_> xelister: using BTC in chine ^^
3565 2011-02-21 21:23:51 <genjix_> a
3566 2011-02-21 21:23:55 <xelister> lyspooner: indeed!  thanks.  will fix the (8) in legend
3567 2011-02-21 21:24:03 <ArtForz> http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/859483-round-6-fan-testing-working-thread.html is a good place to start looking though
3568 2011-02-21 21:24:07 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: its worse with other components
3569 2011-02-21 21:24:32 <ArtForz> pressure/flow/noise charts for like 50 different fans
3570 2011-02-21 21:24:33 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: thanks, im redoing my fans and rad mount (I kind of ran out of money last time
3571 2011-02-21 21:24:35 <xelister> genjix_: bitcoin is not illegal in china, is it?
3572 2011-02-21 21:24:41 <xelister> tor and freenet are
3573 2011-02-21 21:24:47 <genjix_> no but it could be
3574 2011-02-21 21:24:58 <xelister> and democracy ;)
3575 2011-02-21 21:25:06 <genjix_> heh suppose that applies equally to the west too
3576 2011-02-21 21:25:07 <ArtForz> I REALLY like the delta AFB1212HHE
3577 2011-02-21 21:25:23 <BlueMatt> That what you have?
3578 2011-02-21 21:25:32 <Raulo> jgarzik: pull request added on github
3579 2011-02-21 21:25:32 <ArtForz> thats what I will be getting very soon
3580 2011-02-21 21:25:41 <ArtForz> right now I have Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000s
3581 2011-02-21 21:26:01 larsivi has joined
3582 2011-02-21 21:26:05 <ArtForz> pretty much same wattage and RPM as a scythe UK 3000, 6dB quieter, higher max airflow and higher max pressure, better curve shape
3583 2011-02-21 21:26:20 <ArtForz> and dual ball bearing instead of crappy sleeve bearings
3584 2011-02-21 21:26:29 <Lachesis> ;;seen necrodearia
3585 2011-02-21 21:26:29 <gribble> necrodearia was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 12 hours, 52 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <necrodearia> category creation is now live
3586 2011-02-21 21:27:01 <ducki2p> Lachesis: the chef hangs around in #witcoin
3587 2011-02-21 21:27:14 <Raulo> ArtForz: Delta fans are hard to buy. Where did you get yours?
3588 2011-02-21 21:27:17 <ArtForz> digikey
3589 2011-02-21 21:27:32 chmod755 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3590 2011-02-21 21:27:34 <xelister> ArtForz: when fan dies on 5870 or similar, what hapens exactly? computer shuts down?  slows down? explodes?
3591 2011-02-21 21:27:42 <ArtForz> card slows down
3592 2011-02-21 21:28:22 <ArtForz> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&WT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_button&KeyWords=603-1212-ND
3593 2011-02-21 21:28:23 <Raulo> Digikey. Great site but $60 shipping for orders below $200 for me. I don't need that many fans
3594 2011-02-21 21:28:29 <ArtForz> wow
3595 2011-02-21 21:28:50 <sipa> ;;bc,mtgox
3596 2011-02-21 21:28:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8796,"low":0.8313,"vol":2156,"buy":0.8342,"sell":0.8589,"last":0.859}}
3597 2011-02-21 21:28:56 <ArtForz> I get free shipping to .de for orders > 60EUR
3598 2011-02-21 21:29:24 <Raulo> By the way. Does this Delta fan have molex connector?
3599 2011-02-21 21:29:28 <ArtForz> nope
3600 2011-02-21 21:29:50 <ArtForz> I just crimped on decent connectors myself
3601 2011-02-21 21:30:07 SoapBawks has joined
3602 2011-02-21 21:30:24 any has joined
3603 2011-02-21 21:30:26 <`Jaka> Last Price: 0.859High:0.8796Low: 0.8313Volume: 2156
3604 2011-02-21 21:30:27 <`Jaka> rip bitcoins
3605 2011-02-21 21:30:30 <ArtForz> oh, and they're 4-wire = with tach and PWM capable
3606 2011-02-21 21:30:43 <ArtForz> which is *very* useful for PC cooling
3607 2011-02-21 21:31:01 <ArtForz> and at 4.8 W a pop, they work on most mobos without needing 5.25" molex adapters for power
3608 2011-02-21 21:31:21 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3609 2011-02-21 21:31:30 <JDeso> Hello people, I just used that website that gives you 0.05 free BitCoins for doing a captcha; I didn't receive them, madness?
3610 2011-02-21 21:31:40 <`Jaka> that's only like 5c
3611 2011-02-21 21:31:42 <Tril> did you wait a few hours?
3612 2011-02-21 21:31:45 <ArtForz> most boards are only rated for 0.3A/fan, but 0.4 isnt THAT much higher, and they have inrush current limiting
3613 2011-02-21 21:31:53 <JDeso> I've waited about 20mins ^^;
3614 2011-02-21 21:32:00 <JDeso> It takes hours for a transaction?
3615 2011-02-21 21:32:05 <Lachesis> JDeso, how many blocks does your client say you've downloaded
3616 2011-02-21 21:32:05 <xelister> JDeso: sue them \o/ like true american hero
3617 2011-02-21 21:32:17 <ArtForz> you have to wait for your client to finish downloading the block chain first
3618 2011-02-21 21:32:30 <ArtForz> ;;bc,blocks
3619 2011-02-21 21:32:31 <gribble> 109550
3620 2011-02-21 21:32:39 <Tril> after that, it could still take hours if you're unlucky
3621 2011-02-21 21:32:49 <JDeso> (How priv message? IRC nubcake here ^^;)
3622 2011-02-21 21:32:57 <ArtForz> if you're really unlucky, yes
3623 2011-02-21 21:33:00 <Raulo> The clinet should show 0/unconfirmed within seconds
3624 2011-02-21 21:33:00 <Tril>    /msg nick   (usually)
3625 2011-02-21 21:33:01 <Lachesis> JDeso, /msg nick message
3626 2011-02-21 21:33:03 <JDeso> thanks
3627 2011-02-21 21:33:07 <xelister> JDeso: /msg nickname message    but it may not work if you are not registered
3628 2011-02-21 21:33:09 <ArtForz> normally it only takes like 10 min avg
3629 2011-02-21 21:33:20 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3630 2011-02-21 21:33:28 <Lachesis> his client says it's downloaded every block
3631 2011-02-21 21:33:50 <JDeso> My CPU has maxed out (just restarted the prog and hit generate) madnessx2?!
3632 2011-02-21 21:34:02 <Lachesis> JDeso, no, that's how generate works
3633 2011-02-21 21:34:10 <Tril> go to blockexplorer.com and search for your bitcoin address that you used?
3634 2011-02-21 21:34:11 <Lachesis> it's uses CPU power to try to find winning "blocks"
3635 2011-02-21 21:34:15 <xelister> JDeso: disable generating, it makes no sense
3636 2011-02-21 21:34:17 <Lachesis> somebody got the FAQ url?
3637 2011-02-21 21:34:29 <echelon> in soviet russia block generates you
3638 2011-02-21 21:34:34 <Lachesis> http://www.bitcoin.org/faq
3639 2011-02-21 21:34:36 <Lachesis> that was easy :)
3640 2011-02-21 21:34:41 <JDeso> Oh, it's been using tiny amount of CPu usage up until now
3641 2011-02-21 21:34:47 <JDeso> lol @echelon :D
3642 2011-02-21 21:34:51 <Lachesis> JDeso, turn off generation
3643 2011-02-21 21:34:56 <Lachesis> it'll take you > 1yr to make <$50
3644 2011-02-21 21:34:59 <Lachesis> and use all your CPU
3645 2011-02-21 21:35:13 <xelister> and kill your kitten
3646 2011-02-21 21:35:15 <JDeso> wow crying face, meh, I'll help the cause all I can xD
3647 2011-02-21 21:35:16 <genjix_> wow shits going down in the middle east.
3648 2011-02-21 21:35:19 <genjix_> from wikipedia:
3649 2011-02-21 21:35:24 <Lachesis> genjix, yeah
3650 2011-02-21 21:35:26 <genjix_> Protests in Libya spread to the capital Tripoli, as hundreds of protesters are reported dead.
3651 2011-02-21 21:35:32 <genjix_> Authorities open fire on demonstrators in Bahrain amid continuing protests across the Middle East and North Africa.
3652 2011-02-21 21:35:36 <Lachesis> 42 were arrested in zimbabwe
3653 2011-02-21 21:35:37 <ArtForz> genjix: you've been living under a rock?
3654 2011-02-21 21:35:46 <xelister> JDeso: cool =) although, usually it is better to buy Radeon GPU of 5xxx series and use that (it makes sense for next 1-2 months )
3655 2011-02-21 21:35:56 <ArtForz> that shit's been all over the news all day
3656 2011-02-21 21:35:58 <genjix_> ArtForz: no but yesterday dozens were shot in libya... now it's hundreds
3657 2011-02-21 21:36:09 <Lachesis> JDeso, what bitcoin address did you send the coins to? do you still have it? btw, that you might want to PM
3658 2011-02-21 21:36:12 <BlueMatt> http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
3659 2011-02-21 21:36:16 <ArtForz> pretty sure heard 200+ today in news
3660 2011-02-21 21:36:22 <genjix_> in last years iran demonstrations it was nowhere near 100 shot
3661 2011-02-21 21:36:23 <xelister> lets ship 1000 radeons to libya
3662 2011-02-21 21:36:29 <xelister> everyone will be bussy with that shit instead
3663 2011-02-21 21:36:31 <Lachesis> lol
3664 2011-02-21 21:36:34 <genjix_> hundreds... shit. that's huge
3665 2011-02-21 21:36:36 <Lachesis> i don't think it works that way, man
3666 2011-02-21 21:36:38 <gavinandresen> I always thought the whole cold war "domino theory" was wrong.  I'm revising that opinion a bit....
3667 2011-02-21 21:36:39 <genjix_> massacre
3668 2011-02-21 21:36:52 <genjix_> gavinandresen: wiki tunisian effect
3669 2011-02-21 21:36:52 <ArtForz> btw, neat fan: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=603-1164-ND
3670 2011-02-21 21:36:55 <xelister> well in face of this problem
3671 2011-02-21 21:36:58 <xelister> problems
3672 2011-02-21 21:37:04 <xelister> you peopler really should arm selves ;)
3673 2011-02-21 21:37:07 <xelister> e.g. for infowar
3674 2011-02-21 21:37:07 <genjix_> gavinandresen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisian_Effect
3675 2011-02-21 21:37:08 <xelister> tor, freenet
3676 2011-02-21 21:37:11 <ArtForz> why yes, a 48W 5.5kRPM 120x38mm ;)
3677 2011-02-21 21:37:30 <jgarzik> Raulo: thanks
3678 2011-02-21 21:37:35 <ArtForz> not as utterly crazy as the 120W papsts though
3679 2011-02-21 21:38:05 <genjix_> i lol how these protests are mainly facilitated by facebook (plaintext http) and twitter
3680 2011-02-21 21:38:22 <genjix_> not freenet, gpg crypto and linux
3681 2011-02-21 21:38:30 <genjix_> as we hackers like to wet-dream
3682 2011-02-21 21:38:36 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: just look at 1918...
3683 2011-02-21 21:38:42 <xelister> genjix_: freenet too
3684 2011-02-21 21:38:43 <ArtForz> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=381-2290-ND
3685 2011-02-21 21:38:45 <xelister> bitcoin
3686 2011-02-21 21:38:52 <xelister> openpgp, linux/bds,  freenet/tor/i2p
3687 2011-02-21 21:38:57 <xelister> what else we need?
3688 2011-02-21 21:38:59 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: or the more recent Orange Revolution and its offshoots
3689 2011-02-21 21:39:10 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
3690 2011-02-21 21:39:40 <ArtForz> 120x38mm, 24V, 120W, 11kRPM, 78dBA, 336cfm
3691 2011-02-21 21:39:50 <gavinandresen> jgarzik:  I've given up trying to understand foreign policy-- I've decided I'm not an expert and don't want to become one.
3692 2011-02-21 21:39:59 cdecker has joined
3693 2011-02-21 21:40:07 <ArtForz> wonder if you can get that one to hover >1" above a table :P
3694 2011-02-21 21:40:12 <xelister> gavinandresen: people are overcomplicating stuff imo
3695 2011-02-21 21:40:23 <xelister> why can't people just agree that starting wars and invasions is bad
3696 2011-02-21 21:40:28 <ArtForz> a 33W only lifts off about half a inch
3697 2011-02-21 21:40:33 <xelister> then usa could pull out their shit from iraq for example
3698 2011-02-21 21:40:34 <gavinandresen> I do like the theory that a lot of this is being driven by the economics of declining oil reserves....
3699 2011-02-21 21:41:03 <gavinandresen> (Egypt is down something like 30% from its peak oil production, for example)
3700 2011-02-21 21:41:15 <`Jaka> soon bitcoins will be worthless...
3701 2011-02-21 21:41:17 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: food prices play a far bigger role in today's middle eastern unrest
3702 2011-02-21 21:41:22 <genjix_> i've travelled a lot through the middle east
3703 2011-02-21 21:41:22 <cosurgi> I've just configured my central server to monitor all my miners, and send SMS to my phone if any of them does not respond to pings.
3704 2011-02-21 21:41:24 <xelister> `Jaka:  why
3705 2011-02-21 21:41:33 <BlueMatt> its mostly because of rising food prices
3706 2011-02-21 21:41:36 <`Jaka> ;;bc,mtgox
3707 2011-02-21 21:41:36 <jgarzik> yep
3708 2011-02-21 21:41:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8796,"low":0.8313,"vol":2166,"buy":0.8342,"sell":0.8589,"last":0.8342}}
3709 2011-02-21 21:41:40 <`Jaka> RIP bitcoins...
3710 2011-02-21 21:41:43 <genjix_> and most arab countries are very religious and hate their pro-west government
3711 2011-02-21 21:41:53 <genjix_> and are pro-iran
3712 2011-02-21 21:42:03 <xelister> jgarzik: and why these prices go up?  gov's trying to squeeze too much out of people or what?
3713 2011-02-21 21:42:04 <genjix_> funny then that iran people are pro-west and hate their government
3714 2011-02-21 21:42:24 <ArtForz> `Jaka: anything to back that up? or trying to manipulate the market?
3715 2011-02-21 21:42:32 <genjix_> i guess people can't be happy unless living under freedom
3716 2011-02-21 21:42:34 <xelister> `Jaka: are you just trolling randomly?
3717 2011-02-21 21:42:40 <`Jaka> the prices are falling
3718 2011-02-21 21:42:43 <`Jaka> soon they will be worthless...
3719 2011-02-21 21:42:44 <ArtForz> xelister: or that :P
3720 2011-02-21 21:42:48 <echelon> 40.0 @ $0.3711 O_O
3721 2011-02-21 21:42:52 <molecular> `Jaka, don't worry
3722 2011-02-21 21:42:52 <TheKid> `Jaka: that's not real though
3723 2011-02-21 21:42:56 <TheKid> that's someone just cashing out
3724 2011-02-21 21:42:56 <echelon> it's only 40
3725 2011-02-21 21:43:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: food prices are rising for quite a few factors, youll have to google and read the news
3726 2011-02-21 21:43:29 <molecular>  100 @ $0.8342 <- what are you talking about $0.3711?? where?
3727 2011-02-21 21:43:30 <xelister> ArtForz: how much you spent already on all the asic stuff
3728 2011-02-21 21:43:39 <Lachesis> oh hey, when is the bitcoin client going to allow units smaller than ฿0.01?
3729 2011-02-21 21:43:39 <ArtForz> xelister: so far, about $65k
3730 2011-02-21 21:43:45 <xelister> molecular: some idiot offers @0.37 and `Jaka trolls aobut it
3731 2011-02-21 21:43:54 <ArtForz> but thats a lot of one-off costs
3732 2011-02-21 21:43:58 <jgarzik> Many of the middle eastern countries were subsidizing food prices, to keep them artificially low, keeping the populace happy.  That policy starts to fall apart, once food prices rise to such a level that the government simply does not have the money to maintain its price controls.  At that point, you must either increase food prices, or ration food.  The usual decision is to increase prices.
3733 2011-02-21 21:43:59 <andrew12> Lachesis: afaik never
3734 2011-02-21 21:44:05 <andrew12> i mean
3735 2011-02-21 21:44:10 <ArtForz> *including a lot
3736 2011-02-21 21:44:16 <andrew12> it allows it, but there will be a txfee
3737 2011-02-21 21:44:27 <jgarzik> food prices have been rising for a variety of reasons (climate change, spot shortages, production choices from 12 months ago, ...)
3738 2011-02-21 21:44:29 <Lachesis> andrew12, ah
3739 2011-02-21 21:44:30 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: exactly
3740 2011-02-21 21:44:39 bk128 has joined
3741 2011-02-21 21:44:41 <jgarzik> water will become a concern too
3742 2011-02-21 21:44:43 <xelister> jgarzik: hmm why there still is problem with food I dont get that. shitty infrastructure? they really can't produce enough food to not starve?
3743 2011-02-21 21:44:44 <Lachesis> ArtForz, jeez, any performance numbers to report back yet?
3744 2011-02-21 21:44:46 <jgarzik> water resources are scarce
3745 2011-02-21 21:45:13 <jgarzik> xelister: try growing grain for an entire population, when most of your country is sand :)
3746 2011-02-21 21:45:27 <xelister> jgarzik: I know that africa is 'helped' (destroyed) by too cheap food from USA/EU that is destrouying any reason for them to correctly make own food on bigger scale... but arabic countries?
3747 2011-02-21 21:45:34 <jgarzik> man, Bitcoin Central prices are all over the place
3748 2011-02-21 21:45:39 <jgarzik> I wonder if liquidity is exhausted
3749 2011-02-21 21:45:53 <xelister> jgarzik: well that problem didnt happen overnight, I guess previously they where able to keep up somehow? and now the tech is there to help
3750 2011-02-21 21:46:20 <`Jaka> so i got a free g2
3751 2011-02-21 21:46:22 <`Jaka> what do i do with it
3752 2011-02-21 21:46:31 <ArtForz> Lachesis: 200Mh/s/chip, one 2U box with 32 chips and 6.4Ghps now online, power usage 285-290W including mainboard/cpu/...
3753 2011-02-21 21:46:34 <xelister> or did they either starved or lived off food from conquered neighbours for generations
3754 2011-02-21 21:46:44 <Lachesis> ArtForz, nice
3755 2011-02-21 21:46:58 <jgarzik> xelister: the problem did not happen overnight, but governments do not like to increase food prices.  thus, underlying prices increase while supermarket prices remain the same... until a Tipping Point is reached.
3756 2011-02-21 21:47:00 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: how many more to come?
3757 2011-02-21 21:47:08 <xelister> ArtForz: can you put it all on testnet and go to vacation =)
3758 2011-02-21 21:47:10 <ArtForz> with this batch, 2 more boxes
3759 2011-02-21 21:47:26 <ArtForz> = another 12.8Ghps
3760 2011-02-21 21:47:47 <andrew12> ArtForz: how much space does it take up, and how much heat does it generate?
3761 2011-02-21 21:47:56 <ArtForz> it's a 2U, it takes up... 2U
3762 2011-02-21 21:48:09 <andrew12> what's a 2U?
3763 2011-02-21 21:48:11 <ArtForz> and heat... about 285-290W...
3764 2011-02-21 21:48:12 <cosurgi> andrew12: not much
3765 2011-02-21 21:48:19 wobber has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
3766 2011-02-21 21:48:25 <xelister> andrew12: google u2 case
3767 2011-02-21 21:48:31 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit
3768 2011-02-21 21:48:35 <andrew12> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit - oh
3769 2011-02-21 21:48:36 <andrew12> lol
3770 2011-02-21 21:48:37 <xelister> jgarzik: so perhaps freeing the food market would help?
3771 2011-02-21 21:49:17 <Lachesis> how deep is a rack unit?
3772 2011-02-21 21:49:20 <BlueMatt> xelister: then the food would be even more expensive
3773 2011-02-21 21:49:25 <xelister> actually, why don't people instead grow own food at least partially, is there really no plants that the poverty people can grow on their own
3774 2011-02-21 21:49:36 <ArtForz> the cases I'm using are 24" deep
3775 2011-02-21 21:49:39 <BlueMatt> its the middle of the desert
3776 2011-02-21 21:49:54 <kupo> xelister: they often need land to do so
3777 2011-02-21 21:49:56 <xelister> BlueMatt: ok, but why it was more or less o.k. for thousand+ years before?
3778 2011-02-21 21:49:58 <andrew12> ArtForz: got any pics yet? :P
3779 2011-02-21 21:50:00 <BlueMatt> plus the us exports heavily subsidized grain, which means its cheaper to just buy from there
3780 2011-02-21 21:50:06 <kupo> BlueMatt: depends where really
3781 2011-02-21 21:50:31 <xelister> I still dont get it
3782 2011-02-21 21:50:33 <Raulo> xelister: most peaple live in cities whic are overcrowded (even if are not on the desert)
3783 2011-02-21 21:50:41 <xelister> either buy "too cheap" food from US
3784 2011-02-21 21:50:46 <xelister> or fuck them and make own like in past 1000 years
3785 2011-02-21 21:50:51 <BlueMatt> but its not cheap enough
3786 2011-02-21 21:50:54 <Raulo> Have you been to Cairo? It's huge
3787 2011-02-21 21:50:55 <xelister> or did they overpopulated a lot recently
3788 2011-02-21 21:50:57 <BlueMatt> so the govt pays a part of the price
3789 2011-02-21 21:51:12 <xelister> BlueMatt: did the gov paid part of the food price in last 1000 years too?
3790 2011-02-21 21:51:21 <xelister> I mean, like, skip the economy
3791 2011-02-21 21:51:32 <xelister> the popularion on this land either can or cannot sustein itself
3792 2011-02-21 21:51:49 <BlueMatt> xelister: there are like 10x more people than there used to be
3793 2011-02-21 21:51:54 <xelister> if it can not then why just now.  if it can they fuck the economy and make half people farmers
3794 2011-02-21 21:51:59 <kupo> there's also the reoccurance of a fungus that almost wiped out the worlds grain supplies 30 years ago
3795 2011-02-21 21:52:08 <BlueMatt> they can make more money in the city
3796 2011-02-21 21:52:11 <BlueMatt> so they move to the city
3797 2011-02-21 21:52:12 <kupo> and it's able to attack the old fungus resistant strain
3798 2011-02-21 21:52:14 <xelister> BlueMatt: ah ok, so they overpopulated basically
3799 2011-02-21 21:52:19 <BlueMatt> and there aren't enough farmers
3800 2011-02-21 21:52:26 <BlueMatt> xelister: not really
3801 2011-02-21 21:52:31 <BlueMatt> just poor and unable to buy food
3802 2011-02-21 21:52:40 <xelister> so how is all of this gov fault?  are we/they sure overhtrowing will help?
3803 2011-02-21 21:52:47 <BlueMatt> it wont
3804 2011-02-21 21:52:50 <BlueMatt> but people are pissed
3805 2011-02-21 21:52:58 <BlueMatt> the govt used to pay a part of the price
3806 2011-02-21 21:53:02 <xelister> so this revolution is basically a bad thing
3807 2011-02-21 21:53:04 <BlueMatt> but they cant really afford it
3808 2011-02-21 21:53:12 <Raulo> xelister: It may not be govt fault but ther are corrupt and it pisses off the peaple
3809 2011-02-21 21:53:14 <xelister> right?  or at least neutral from the food perspective
3810 2011-02-21 21:53:17 <BlueMatt> well its not terrible, they do live under an oppressive dictator
3811 2011-02-21 21:53:30 <BlueMatt> xelister: pretty much wont help the food problem
3812 2011-02-21 21:53:31 <xelister> Raulo: well US gov is corrupt too, and starts invasions that kill children
3813 2011-02-21 21:53:36 <kupo> Raulo: yea corruption in egypt was rampant
3814 2011-02-21 21:53:48 <BlueMatt> xelister: nothing compared to egypt or lybia
3815 2011-02-21 21:54:02 <xelister> more corrupted then russia?
3816 2011-02-21 21:54:08 * xelister was not there so can't related
3817 2011-02-21 21:54:09 <xelister> relate
3818 2011-02-21 21:54:14 <kupo> xelister: we're talking like you need to bribe the baker to get to the front of the bread line or you may not get bread
3819 2011-02-21 21:54:39 <kupo> xelister: or you need to bribe the beauracrat to give you a license to open a little shop on the street
3820 2011-02-21 21:54:41 <xelister> O_o
3821 2011-02-21 21:54:47 <kupo> which is what kicked off the revolution
3822 2011-02-21 21:54:53 <xelister> actually it may be as bad in poland a bit heh
3823 2011-02-21 21:54:56 <BlueMatt> xelister: pretty much everything requires a bribe to a govt official
3824 2011-02-21 21:55:02 <xelister> to open some kinds of shops like food
3825 2011-02-21 21:55:04 <kupo> a blogger tried to do that didn't have any money for the bribe and was jailed
3826 2011-02-21 21:55:06 <BlueMatt> xelister: not even close
3827 2011-02-21 21:55:08 <xelister> you need clearance from health office
3828 2011-02-21 21:55:18 <xelister> and you bribe them, or wait 1-2 extra months heh
3829 2011-02-21 21:55:34 <xelister> although corrupted officials are prosecuted
3830 2011-02-21 21:55:39 <xelister> when catched
3831 2011-02-21 21:56:01 <kupo> thats not that bad
3832 2011-02-21 21:56:15 <kupo> if they're prosecuted it sends the right messgae
3833 2011-02-21 21:56:30 <xelister> I suppose
3834 2011-02-21 21:56:36 <xelister> still very far from ideal country
3835 2011-02-21 21:57:38 <kupo> gorgeous women I've read
3836 2011-02-21 21:57:40 <xelister> ;; buy 100 at 2 breads delivery in lybia >_>
3837 2011-02-21 21:57:40 <gribble> Order id 612 created.
3838 2011-02-21 21:57:54 <xelister> oh.. wait, this command works on this chan too.
3839 2011-02-21 21:57:58 <xelister> ;; remove 612
3840 2011-02-21 21:57:59 <gribble> Order remove successful, 1 orders removed.
3841 2011-02-21 21:58:07 <Lachesis> lol
3842 2011-02-21 21:59:24 <lyspooner> anyone found life on the SETI thing?
3843 2011-02-21 22:00:10 <phantomcircuit> "we need donations for africa", "Is this ad relevant to you?" -> *clicks no*
3844 2011-02-21 22:01:08 <TheKid> xelister: gonna make a helmet?
3845 2011-02-21 22:01:24 <TheKid> http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/022011/bread_helmet_guy.jpg
3846 2011-02-21 22:02:08 <bk128> lyspooner: lol
3847 2011-02-21 22:03:17 <xelister> TheKid: >_>
3848 2011-02-21 22:03:36 noagendamarket has joined
3849 2011-02-21 22:04:46 <xelister> user "my node is not connecte to anyone :("       developer  "how are you determining this?"     ha :)
3850 2011-02-21 22:05:34 any has quit ()
3851 2011-02-21 22:07:48 <Lachesis> ArtForz, how much of your $65,000 was setup costs and how much is per chip?
3852 2011-02-21 22:10:45 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3853 2011-02-21 22:14:00 <hwolf> any way to figure out how much ip bandwidth you would use for hash/sec?
3854 2011-02-21 22:14:25 <tcatm> if you don't run a pool... very little
3855 2011-02-21 22:14:37 <hwolf> what kind of bandwidth does a pool use?
3856 2011-02-21 22:14:51 <hwolf> are we talking 10k pps?
3857 2011-02-21 22:16:04 <tcatm> ask slush. I think he has a few 100 GBs of traffic/month just for getworks
3858 2011-02-21 22:17:18 <hwolf> 100gbs would be barley 1mbit/s average.  I better try to track him down
3859 2011-02-21 22:17:18 <andrew12> afaik it was a few tb
3860 2011-02-21 22:17:41 SoapBawks has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3861 2011-02-21 22:17:49 <hwolf> ah, around 10mbit/sec it sounds like then
3862 2011-02-21 22:17:53 <xelister> ArtForz: you want to be a hero?
3863 2011-02-21 22:17:54 <hwolf> if its a few TB
3864 2011-02-21 22:18:16 <andrew12> hwolf: it really depends on how huge the pool is going to be
3865 2011-02-21 22:18:18 <xelister> ArtForz: why not just run freenet node on most of the boxes =)  just give -19 priority to miner and it should be not interfearing at all
3866 2011-02-21 22:18:24 <BlueMatt> yea, but a few tb at a datacenter is expensive
3867 2011-02-21 22:18:34 <ArtForz> a bit over half was setup
3868 2011-02-21 22:18:34 <hwolf> ?
3869 2011-02-21 22:18:35 <xelister> (well depending a bit on inet pipe but I assume you have a good one and with backups)
3870 2011-02-21 22:18:41 <hwolf> BlueMatt TB in a data center is very cheap
3871 2011-02-21 22:19:18 <hwolf> like 10mbit/sec average if you by from HE or cogent is around $40
3872 2011-02-21 22:19:19 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
3873 2011-02-21 22:19:26 <BlueMatt> hes on linode
3874 2011-02-21 22:19:33 <xelister> ok perhaps I was wrong about the good internet thing LOL <_<
3875 2011-02-21 22:19:42 <hwolf> a few TB would be $30 per month if you are already buying lots of bandwidth (i am)
3876 2011-02-21 22:20:03 <BlueMatt> a few tb/month when you are paid 2% is alot
3877 2011-02-21 22:20:09 <BlueMatt> even if its only 30$/month
3878 2011-02-21 22:20:14 <hwolf> lol, good point
3879 2011-02-21 22:20:29 <hwolf> think its all about power not bandwidth
3880 2011-02-21 22:20:38 <BlueMatt> could be
3881 2011-02-21 22:21:01 <hwolf> good to know, so seems like custom aisic is the best power/hash.  bandwidth costs probably dont even factor in
3882 2011-02-21 22:21:27 <BlueMatt> linode app costs 80$/month for the 800GB transfer plan...so quite a bit if you aren't paid much
3883 2011-02-21 22:21:51 ArtForz has joined
3884 2011-02-21 22:24:12 JDeso has left ()
3885 2011-02-21 22:24:16 genjix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3886 2011-02-21 22:25:20 molecular has quit (zapp!~molecular@e176109055.adsl.alicedsl.de|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3887 2011-02-21 22:25:20 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3888 2011-02-21 22:25:37 molecular has joined
3889 2011-02-21 22:26:13 molecular has joined
3890 2011-02-21 22:27:11 <cosurgi> when slush comes, somebody tell him about this: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.msg51076#msg51076
3891 2011-02-21 22:27:28 theymos has joined
3892 2011-02-21 22:27:59 <cosurgi> slush already has fixed this bug a week ago. But somebody reports it again.
3893 2011-02-21 22:28:13 <theymos> There sure is a lot of posting on the forum. It's hard to read them all.
3894 2011-02-21 22:28:38 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3895 2011-02-21 22:28:43 <cosurgi> yeah. this one will be interesting for him, because we were talking about this.
3896 2011-02-21 22:28:44 dirtyfilthy has joined
3897 2011-02-21 22:28:57 <cosurgi> does gribble offer some method for sending messages to offline users?
3898 2011-02-21 22:29:18 <cosurgi> .. so they will see a message when the come to irc?
3899 2011-02-21 22:29:21 <gavinandresen> we should start charging 0.01BTC per post....  (KIDDING, JUST KIDDING)
3900 2011-02-21 22:29:24 <TheKid> ;;later cosurgi yes
3901 2011-02-21 22:29:24 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "cosurgi" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
3902 2011-02-21 22:29:25 sgornick has joined
3903 2011-02-21 22:29:34 <andrew12> TheKid: try ;;later tell
3904 2011-02-21 22:29:35 sgornick has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3905 2011-02-21 22:29:38 <TheKid> oh right
3906 2011-02-21 22:29:40 <TheKid> my bad
3907 2011-02-21 22:30:09 <theymos> cosurgi: You can also use Freenode's memoserv.
3908 2011-02-21 22:30:12 <andrew12> ;;later tell cosurgi Yes, likethis!
3909 2011-02-21 22:30:12 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
3910 2011-02-21 22:30:24 <andrew12> or i can fail at typing
3911 2011-02-21 22:30:58 <cosurgi> ;;later tell slush Check this bug report http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.msg51076#msg51076
3912 2011-02-21 22:30:58 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
3913 2011-02-21 22:31:14 <Lachesis> ;;later tell Lachesis Sign off and do some real work, you lazy bum!
3914 2011-02-21 22:31:15 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
3915 2011-02-21 22:31:21 <andrew12> heh
3916 2011-02-21 22:31:38 <andrew12> it tells them that the next time it sees them talk
3917 2011-02-21 22:31:43 <Lachesis> yeah i saw
3918 2011-02-21 22:31:47 <Lachesis> it told me immediately :)
3919 2011-02-21 22:31:51 <andrew12> haha
3920 2011-02-21 22:32:00 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3921 2011-02-21 22:32:02 <xelister> ;;later tell gribble learn about recursion
3922 2011-02-21 22:32:02 <gribble> Error: I can't send notes to myself.
3923 2011-02-21 22:32:07 <Lachesis> lol
3924 2011-02-21 22:32:08 <andrew12> ,roulette
3925 2011-02-21 22:32:09 <xelister> btw, google "recursion" haha
3926 2011-02-21 22:32:12 <Lachesis> it won that one, xelister
3927 2011-02-21 22:32:17 <andrew12> ;;roulette
3928 2011-02-21 22:32:18 <gribble> *click*
3929 2011-02-21 22:32:26 <andrew12> ;;roulette
3930 2011-02-21 22:32:26 <xelister> andrew12: want to play rouletter lika BOSS ?
3931 2011-02-21 22:32:26 <gribble> *click*
3932 2011-02-21 22:32:31 <andrew12> ;;roulette
3933 2011-02-21 22:32:32 <gribble> *click*
3934 2011-02-21 22:32:34 <xelister> wait
3935 2011-02-21 22:32:36 <andrew12> ;;roulette
3936 2011-02-21 22:32:36 <gribble> *click*
3937 2011-02-21 22:32:38 <andrew12> ;;roulette
3938 2011-02-21 22:32:39 <cosurgi> ;;wait
3939 2011-02-21 22:32:39 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
3940 2011-02-21 22:32:40 <gribble> I do not know about 'wait', but I do know about these similar topics: 'wiki'
3941 2011-02-21 22:32:42 andrew12 has joined
3942 2011-02-21 22:32:43 <xelister> meh
3943 2011-02-21 22:32:45 <andrew12> lol
3944 2011-02-21 22:32:45 <BlueMatt> lol
3945 2011-02-21 22:32:47 <xelister> andrew12: want to play rouletter lika BOSS ?
3946 2011-02-21 22:32:54 <andrew12> xelister: wat
3947 2011-02-21 22:32:58 <xelister> andrew12: who ever looses pays 20 btc, we take turns, I start. deal?
3948 2011-02-21 22:33:07 <andrew12> hah
3949 2011-02-21 22:33:14 <andrew12> i dont even have 20 btc
3950 2011-02-21 22:33:15 <Lachesis> i don't trust gribble :)
3951 2011-02-21 22:33:18 <xelister> 1 btc then
3952 2011-02-21 22:33:24 <bk128> ;;roulette
3953 2011-02-21 22:33:24 <gribble> *click*
3954 2011-02-21 22:33:27 <andrew12> ok
3955 2011-02-21 22:33:30 <xelister> ok
3956 2011-02-21 22:33:32 <xelister> ;;roulette
3957 2011-02-21 22:33:32 <gribble> *click*
3958 2011-02-21 22:33:35 <bk128> ;;roulette
3959 2011-02-21 22:33:35 <gribble> *click*
3960 2011-02-21 22:33:36 <andrew12> ;;roulette
3961 2011-02-21 22:33:37 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
3962 2011-02-21 22:33:39 <xelister> \o/
3963 2011-02-21 22:33:41 <Lachesis> lol
3964 2011-02-21 22:33:41 andrew12 has joined
3965 2011-02-21 22:33:43 <andrew12> great
3966 2011-02-21 22:33:44 <cosurgi> :)
3967 2011-02-21 22:33:45 <Lachesis> xelister, you and me?
3968 2011-02-21 22:33:48 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3969 2011-02-21 22:33:50 <bk128> ;;roulette
3970 2011-02-21 22:33:50 <gribble> *click*
3971 2011-02-21 22:33:52 <Lachesis> 1BTC?
3972 2011-02-21 22:33:54 <andrew12> xelister: what's your address
3973 2011-02-21 22:34:06 <xelister> andrew12: 1Kg675huJyfQ7XH6rHujNaJT5kWhWmuT5S  =)
3974 2011-02-21 22:34:11 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3975 2011-02-21 22:34:18 <andrew12> i need to make a bitcoin irssi script -.-
3976 2011-02-21 22:34:20 phantomcircuit has joined
3977 2011-02-21 22:34:23 <andrew12> brb
3978 2011-02-21 22:34:24 <xelister> andrew12: indeed
3979 2011-02-21 22:34:33 <Lachesis> xelister, same wager?
3980 2011-02-21 22:34:37 sgornick has joined
3981 2011-02-21 22:34:37 <xelister> Lachesis: ok lets play
3982 2011-02-21 22:34:41 <Lachesis> ;;roulette
3983 2011-02-21 22:34:43 <gribble> *click*
3984 2011-02-21 22:34:45 <xelister> ;;roulette
3985 2011-02-21 22:34:47 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
3986 2011-02-21 22:34:51 <Lachesis> bam!
3987 2011-02-21 22:34:58 <BlueMatt> ouch
3988 2011-02-21 22:34:58 xelister has joined
3989 2011-02-21 22:35:01 <xelister> :P
3990 2011-02-21 22:35:01 <Lachesis> andrew12, just send it to me :)
3991 2011-02-21 22:35:05 <andrew12> now we're even?
3992 2011-02-21 22:35:06 <andrew12> lo
3993 2011-02-21 22:35:12 <xelister> andrew12: ok send it to him =)
3994 2011-02-21 22:35:12 <Lachesis> 138keho5hmBZLtQVPZ61qWE3xs12ALd9rC
3995 2011-02-21 22:35:19 <Lachesis> lol bitcoin gambling
3996 2011-02-21 22:35:40 * xelister arrests everyone for the OMG GAMBLING eviiil.  (why dont you just enlist and murder people in iraq like a real American)
3997 2011-02-21 22:35:50 <Lachesis> lol
3998 2011-02-21 22:36:02 llama has joined
3999 2011-02-21 22:36:20 <andrew12> xelister: how about you send him .5 and i send him .5
4000 2011-02-21 22:36:31 <llama> ;;roulette
4001 2011-02-21 22:36:31 <gribble> *click*
4002 2011-02-21 22:36:37 <xelister> well dunno, I was using a 5970.. so.. :)
4003 2011-02-21 22:36:39 <Lachesis> ;;roulette
4004 2011-02-21 22:36:39 <gribble> *click*
4005 2011-02-21 22:36:47 <andrew12> ;;roulette
4006 2011-02-21 22:36:48 <gribble> *click*
4007 2011-02-21 22:36:53 <llama> ;;roulette
4008 2011-02-21 22:36:55 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
4009 2011-02-21 22:36:56 <Lachesis> llama the stakes are ฿1
4010 2011-02-21 22:36:57 <Lachesis> aww
4011 2011-02-21 22:36:58 <Lachesis> too slow
4012 2011-02-21 22:37:06 <dirtyfilthy> ;;roulette
4013 2011-02-21 22:37:07 llama has joined
4014 2011-02-21 22:37:08 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
4015 2011-02-21 22:37:09 <andrew12> we gotta make another channel for this
4016 2011-02-21 22:37:16 <Lachesis> i think we should all pay gribble
4017 2011-02-21 22:37:21 <andrew12> YES
4018 2011-02-21 22:37:22 <Lachesis> somebody make a chan :)
4019 2011-02-21 22:37:23 <BlueMatt> you cant get gribble in another channel
4020 2011-02-21 22:37:25 dirtyfilthy has joined
4021 2011-02-21 22:37:28 <andrew12> BlueMatt: yes you can
4022 2011-02-21 22:37:30 <xelister> the funny thing is bot owner can manipulate =)
4023 2011-02-21 22:37:41 <Lachesis> then the last one standing gets the cash
4024 2011-02-21 22:37:45 <BlueMatt> andrew12 how? aside from msg nanotube
4025 2011-02-21 22:37:53 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, that was the plan, i think
4026 2011-02-21 22:37:54 <xelister> ;;snack
4027 2011-02-21 22:37:54 <gribble> Error: "snack" is not a valid command.
4028 2011-02-21 22:38:01 <Lachesis> eh? ^^
4029 2011-02-21 22:38:07 <BlueMatt> ok #bitcoin-roulette
4030 2011-02-21 22:38:50 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4031 2011-02-21 22:39:53 <bk128> ;;roulette
4032 2011-02-21 22:39:53 <gribble> *click*
4033 2011-02-21 22:40:00 <andrew12> nanotube: if you're around, can you get gribble into #bitcoin-roulette?
4034 2011-02-21 22:40:00 <bk128> ;;botsnack
4035 2011-02-21 22:40:01 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
4036 2011-02-21 22:41:43 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
4037 2011-02-21 22:42:52 <midnightmagic> http://i.imgur.com/putiL.jpg
4038 2011-02-21 22:43:16 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4039 2011-02-21 22:43:41 <BlueMatt> nanotube: can we get gribble in #bitcoin-roulette
4040 2011-02-21 22:43:59 TheKid has joined
4041 2011-02-21 22:44:02 <xelister> LOL midnightmagic
4042 2011-02-21 22:44:04 <xelister> midnightmagic: that is poland
4043 2011-02-21 22:44:09 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
4044 2011-02-21 22:44:09 TheKid has joined
4045 2011-02-21 22:44:51 <Lachesis> ;;roulette
4046 2011-02-21 22:44:51 <gribble> *click*
4047 2011-02-21 22:45:34 Necr0s has joined
4048 2011-02-21 22:45:58 <TheKid> ;;roulette
4049 2011-02-21 22:45:59 <gribble> *click*
4050 2011-02-21 22:53:07 <Lachesis> lol this is so silly
4051 2011-02-21 22:53:15 <Lachesis> ain't that right gribble?
4052 2011-02-21 22:53:15 <Lachesis> ;;eightball
4053 2011-02-21 22:53:16 <gribble> I doubt it very much.
4054 2011-02-21 22:53:18 <Lachesis> aww
4055 2011-02-21 22:53:44 <midnightmagic> probably one of the most popular functions in an irc bot i've ever seen.
4056 2011-02-21 22:53:49 <midnightmagic> except for lamerball mode of course.
4057 2011-02-21 22:54:51 <`Jaka> http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X120e-Review-AMD-Fusion-Powered-Ultraportable/
4058 2011-02-21 22:54:52 <`Jaka> H-HOSHII
4059 2011-02-21 22:54:55 Lachesis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4060 2011-02-21 22:54:56 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4061 2011-02-21 22:56:56 <TheKid> `Jaka: thinkpads are sexy
4062 2011-02-21 22:57:03 <TheKid> I was going to get that laptop
4063 2011-02-21 22:57:07 <TheKid> but I found a better one
4064 2011-02-21 22:57:13 jackmcbarn has joined
4065 2011-02-21 22:57:24 <TheKid> unfortunately it has a worse screen, and is surely less durable
4066 2011-02-21 22:57:35 <`Jaka> thinkpads are fucking sexy
4067 2011-02-21 22:57:37 <`Jaka> you are right
4068 2011-02-21 22:57:44 <`Jaka> tha elegance and build quality
4069 2011-02-21 22:57:49 <`Jaka> fuck yeah
4070 2011-02-21 22:58:05 <JFK911> They used to be a lot better
4071 2011-02-21 22:58:22 <JFK911> Now you have to pay Fujitsu prices to get decent computer.
4072 2011-02-21 22:58:23 <`Jaka> they are better now
4073 2011-02-21 22:58:25 <`Jaka> lenovo master race
4074 2011-02-21 22:59:05 <JFK911> They are better than...
4075 2011-02-21 22:59:06 <JFK911> Asus.
4076 2011-02-21 23:01:04 <`Jaka> i have an asus ul30vt
4077 2011-02-21 23:01:08 <`Jaka> https://spreadsheets0.google.com/pub?key=0AlC40w3H3dxKdFpJQWc3VlhyWUIzN1Y1UnpEaVlyOEE&output=html <- LOL
4078 2011-02-21 23:01:14 <JFK911> I have an X40 and T510
4079 2011-02-21 23:01:15 <JFK911> garbage
4080 2011-02-21 23:01:26 <JFK911> They would only be worse had I paid for them
4081 2011-02-21 23:01:32 <`Jaka> give me them
4082 2011-02-21 23:02:39 <JFK911> What happened to the keyboards?  Thinkpad used to have good keyboard.  I have a 486DX Thinkpad with Active Matrix LCD and it's got a better keyboard than anything you can buy today.
4083 2011-02-21 23:03:59 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4084 2011-02-21 23:04:24 <BlueMatt> tcatm: what might I have to to to modify the js-remote to ignore accounts altogether?
4085 2011-02-21 23:05:23 <tcatm> ? labelsmode should use accounts as labels just as the wxgui does
4086 2011-02-21 23:06:02 <BlueMatt> how do I enable labels mode?
4087 2011-02-21 23:07:05 <tcatm> oh
4088 2011-02-21 23:07:12 <tcatm> I knew I missed something :)
4089 2011-02-21 23:07:27 <BlueMatt> oh what do I name the settings file?
4090 2011-02-21 23:08:17 <tcatm> settings.json
4091 2011-02-21 23:08:18 millette has quit (Quit: Quitte)
4092 2011-02-21 23:08:37 <BlueMatt> ah, ok then
4093 2011-02-21 23:08:48 <BlueMatt> ah, works perfectly
4094 2011-02-21 23:08:49 <BlueMatt> thanks
4095 2011-02-21 23:10:01 <tcatm> I'll add a checkbox to the login form
4096 2011-02-21 23:10:34 <BlueMatt> nice
4097 2011-02-21 23:11:11 <BlueMatt> now I have to get my crazy auth -> proxy -> proxy changing auth -> bitcoin rpc thing to work
4098 2011-02-21 23:12:53 <tcatm> ?
4099 2011-02-21 23:13:15 <BlueMatt> Im passing bitcoin through like 2 proxies (lighttpd + apache) and changing the auth
4100 2011-02-21 23:13:25 <BlueMatt> plus the auth has to be different in the first server (public)
4101 2011-02-21 23:17:15 <kupo> BlueMatt: why not just use tor?
4102 2011-02-21 23:17:23 <kupo> or am I missing the point?
4103 2011-02-21 23:18:52 <BlueMatt> its all local proxies on my server
4104 2011-02-21 23:19:25 <BlueMatt> bc my webserver is lighttpd, and its proxy cant change dir (which I need)
4105 2011-02-21 23:19:33 <BlueMatt> so its pushed through the lighttpd proxy, then an apache one
4106 2011-02-21 23:19:43 <BlueMatt> which changes the directory and changes the auth
4107 2011-02-21 23:19:50 <BlueMatt> because I have a different auth on lighttpd
4108 2011-02-21 23:19:53 <BlueMatt> a central one
4109 2011-02-21 23:20:45 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4110 2011-02-21 23:21:47 <BlueMatt> the problem is the js-remote script uses only basic auth, and my server uses digest
4111 2011-02-21 23:22:02 <BlueMatt> and this interferes on chrome, though it works on my iphone and firefox :(
4112 2011-02-21 23:22:14 <JFK911> ;;bc,last
4113 2011-02-21 23:22:14 <gribble> Error: "bc,last" is not a valid command.
4114 2011-02-21 23:22:21 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
4115 2011-02-21 23:22:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109571 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1308 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47855.65823927
4116 2011-02-21 23:22:39 sojic has joined
4117 2011-02-21 23:24:22 <tcatm> BlueMatt: latest git has a checkbox (with labelsmode as default)
4118 2011-02-21 23:24:40 <BlueMatt> tcatm: nice
4119 2011-02-21 23:24:43 <BlueMatt> thanks
4120 2011-02-21 23:25:41 <tcatm> I do basic auth in javascript to prevent the browser from caching passwords. Some browser don't even prompt for login/pass on ajax requests.
4121 2011-02-21 23:26:58 <molecular> ah, very nice, -rescan works as expected
4122 2011-02-21 23:26:58 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4123 2011-02-21 23:27:30 <BlueMatt> tcatm: wasnt complaining, my setup isnt exactly "standard"
4124 2011-02-21 23:27:41 <BlueMatt> and it works everywhere but chrome
4125 2011-02-21 23:27:50 <BlueMatt> so its not a big deal
4126 2011-02-21 23:29:15 bitcoiner has joined
4127 2011-02-21 23:32:20 sabalaba has joined
4128 2011-02-21 23:35:31 doublec has joined
4129 2011-02-21 23:35:32 doublec has quit (Changing host)
4130 2011-02-21 23:35:32 doublec has joined
4131 2011-02-21 23:36:23 <tcatm> BlueMatt: do the QR codes for labels work or is the text below the QR code too big/small?
4132 2011-02-21 23:36:37 <BlueMatt> you mean on iphone?
4133 2011-02-21 23:36:41 <tcatm> yep
4134 2011-02-21 23:36:59 <BlueMatt> on the version from last night...
4135 2011-02-21 23:37:30 <BlueMatt> they work fine
4136 2011-02-21 23:37:36 <BlueMatt> well, no
4137 2011-02-21 23:37:54 <BlueMatt> if you scroll down and get a qr from one of the later ones, it just appears at the top and you dont see it
4138 2011-02-21 23:38:01 <BlueMatt> but if you are scrolled to the top, its fine
4139 2011-02-21 23:38:06 <BlueMatt> as in perfect
4140 2011-02-21 23:38:08 <tcatm> grrr! even with latest git?
4141 2011-02-21 23:38:16 <BlueMatt> not sure about latest
4142 2011-02-21 23:38:29 <BlueMatt> lemme check on your server
4143 2011-02-21 23:39:01 <BlueMatt> same
4144 2011-02-21 23:40:01 <BlueMatt> and very broken on horizontal, the text is below the white background which means it is ontop of some of the accounts list
4145 2011-02-21 23:40:29 <tcatm> hm.
4146 2011-02-21 23:41:12 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4147 2011-02-21 23:41:24 <tcatm> I'll completely rewrite the QR code stuff at some point.
4148 2011-02-21 23:42:35 <BlueMatt> it looks great now, just needs more white on iphone
4149 2011-02-21 23:48:30 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4150 2011-02-21 23:51:41 CyanDynamo1 has joined
4151 2011-02-21 23:54:50 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4152 2011-02-21 23:55:10 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Client Quit)
4153 2011-02-21 23:55:31 CyanDynamo has joined
4154 2011-02-21 23:55:35 <BlueMatt> tcatm: several final feature requests, then I'm happy (aside from iphone horizontal issues).
4155 2011-02-21 23:55:48 <BlueMatt> Accounts which were used to send are listed in the accounts pane
4156 2011-02-21 23:56:01 <BlueMatt> and are not used in the send to address in the info column
4157 2011-02-21 23:56:17 jackmcbarn has joined
4158 2011-02-21 23:56:29 Syke_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4159 2011-02-21 23:57:28 <BlueMatt> also, is there anyway I could add a "to" account to the list (for the info column)
4160 2011-02-21 23:58:19 <tcatm> It's currently hardcoded
4161 2011-02-21 23:58:32 <BlueMatt> shame
4162 2011-02-21 23:58:57 <BlueMatt> though the to accounts dont appear in info, is that hard to do?
4163 2011-02-21 23:59:11 <tcatm> in labelsmode?
4164 2011-02-21 23:59:13 <BlueMatt> yea