1 2011-03-02 00:00:00 <phantomcircuit> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f7db9a57f21a78fc589ac10e61a7d997828c9025146b4d9571324eb8fce63498
2 2011-03-02 00:00:01 <phantomcircuit> wtf
3 2011-03-02 00:00:01 <Lachesis> that's a big one
4 2011-03-02 00:00:02 <nanotube> looks like someone decided to mop up the transaction backlog.
5 2011-03-02 00:00:08 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: that's why VMWare created Gallium, I presume
6 2011-03-02 00:00:13 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I guess I need openCL stuff for the GPU...
7 2011-03-02 00:00:15 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: you fail.
8 2011-03-02 00:00:17 <jrabbit> bah
9 2011-03-02 00:00:24 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: vmware didnt create gallium
10 2011-03-02 00:00:47 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: its an official top level fdo/mesa/xorg originated project.
11 2011-03-02 00:00:55 <Lachesis> phantomcircuit, my hypothesis is that someone had a pool payout set at 0.05
12 2011-03-02 00:00:56 <Diablo-D3> vmware isnt even a major player in it
13 2011-03-02 00:00:58 <luke-jr> VMWare created part of it at least
14 2011-03-02 00:01:01 <Lachesis> and just sent them all to themself or someone else
15 2011-03-02 00:01:10 <phantomcircuit> Lachesis, yeah
16 2011-03-02 00:01:13 <luke-jr> probably for their guests
17 2011-03-02 00:01:42 <Lachesis> so tell me, is there some reason i shouldn't modify my bitcoind to accept up to 500k free transactions?
18 2011-03-02 00:02:21 <nanotube> Lachesis: they'd still be valid blocks, iirc, so probably not.
19 2011-03-02 00:02:23 <luke-jr> Lachesis: go ahead, you'll just get spam :P
20 2011-03-02 00:02:24 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
21 2011-03-02 00:02:36 <luke-jr> Lachesis: while you
22 2011-03-02 00:02:37 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: nope, vmware happens to hold the current version of what used to be precision insight
23 2011-03-02 00:02:40 <luke-jr> Lachesis: while you're at it, allow <0.01 BTC
24 2011-03-02 00:02:43 <phantomcircuit> neat
25 2011-03-02 00:02:51 <phantomcircuit> my ptyhon client does the network stuff perfectly now
26 2011-03-02 00:02:56 <Lachesis> phantomcircuit, sweet!
27 2011-03-02 00:03:01 <phantomcircuit> well it does 90% of it perfectly
28 2011-03-02 00:03:01 <phantomcircuit> lol
29 2011-03-02 00:03:02 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: early on, precision insight and redhat was paying the salaries of mesa developers, which during this time, created DRI
30 2011-03-02 00:03:16 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: DRI is a mesa/xorg/fdo project, and is not a PI/RH project
31 2011-03-02 00:03:30 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: nice
32 2011-03-02 00:03:34 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: PI blew up, and then a few of those guys created tungsten graphics
33 2011-03-02 00:03:44 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dri isnt a tungsten graphics project.
34 2011-03-02 00:03:48 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: thanks for doing that so us python nerds can hack on it a little
35 2011-03-02 00:04:00 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: mesa/dri/xorg/fdo decided they needed gallium
36 2011-03-02 00:04:25 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: vmware now owns those tungsten graphics guys... but its STILL doesnt make any of this vmware's, or tungsten graphic's, or PI's
37 2011-03-02 00:05:14 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: vmware claiming they invented gallium may actually be actionable in a court of law, ie, people can sue for misrepresentation.
38 2011-03-02 00:05:34 <Diablo-D3> gallium is part of a decade long effort
39 2011-03-02 00:05:50 <Diablo-D3> and no company along the way can say they own it or did anything involving it other than paying the coders.
40 2011-03-02 00:06:33 <Diablo-D3> not precision insight, not redhat, not va linux, not tungsten graphics
41 2011-03-02 00:07:01 <Diablo-D3> not ati, not intel, and not anyone else.
42 2011-03-02 00:07:50 <Diablo-D3> many companies were important to the development of these technologies, but none of them get to own it, and none of them get to legitimately claim they invented it or started it.
43 2011-03-02 00:08:32 <Diablo-D3> and I dont particularly think vmware gets to claim they're part of those companies either
44 2011-03-02 00:08:43 <Diablo-D3> all they did was end up with whats currently tungsten graphics
45 2011-03-02 00:09:17 <Diablo-D3> they _are_ the driving force behind the d3d11 state tracker, but they STILL dont get to own it or claim they started it.
46 2011-03-02 00:09:28 <Diablo-D3> oh, and as a side note
47 2011-03-02 00:09:32 <Diablo-D3> its d3d11 only
48 2011-03-02 00:09:36 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
49 2011-03-02 00:09:41 <Diablo-D3> d3d9 is so horrific that you'd need another state tracker.
50 2011-03-02 00:10:00 <Diablo-D3> the d3d11 and ogl state trackers are going to look very similar
51 2011-03-02 00:10:16 <Diablo-D3> d3d11 is basically ogl3 reskinned as a d3d-like api
52 2011-03-02 00:10:28 RichardG has joined
53 2011-03-02 00:10:30 <Diablo-D3> its completely unlike d3d9, and its totally like _how hardware actually works_
54 2011-03-02 00:10:54 RichardG has quit (Client Quit)
55 2011-03-02 00:11:00 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: so there.
56 2011-03-02 00:11:21 <luke-jr> ok
57 2011-03-02 00:11:49 <luke-jr> you mean how modern hardware works?
58 2011-03-02 00:11:55 <luke-jr> or is d3d9 not even like older hw?
59 2011-03-02 00:12:02 <Diablo-D3> d3d9 is just badshit insane
60 2011-03-02 00:12:15 <Diablo-D3> its some mutant form thats a combination of old hardware and middle hardware
61 2011-03-02 00:12:16 <luke-jr> btw
62 2011-03-02 00:12:22 <Diablo-D3> and none of its a good idea
63 2011-03-02 00:12:23 <luke-jr> what does it mean when the blocktree has \- lines
64 2011-03-02 00:12:24 <luke-jr> ?
65 2011-03-02 00:12:33 <Diablo-D3> hrm, dunno
66 2011-03-02 00:12:34 <luke-jr> does it mean there was a fork?
67 2011-03-02 00:12:38 <Diablo-D3> might be a fork merge
68 2011-03-02 00:12:42 <luke-jr> if so, does it mean that my block won? :p
69 2011-03-02 00:12:51 <Diablo-D3> if this was git, it'd be a fork ;)
70 2011-03-02 00:16:14 <slush> can miner reject fees for including transaction without losing the fee amount in the universe?
71 2011-03-02 00:16:47 <slush> I mean "thanks, I like you, keep the fee back for self"
72 2011-03-02 00:16:47 <phantomcircuit> huh
73 2011-03-02 00:17:20 <phantomcircuit> slush, just add a tx that does that
74 2011-03-02 00:17:35 <amiller> yeah
75 2011-03-02 00:17:39 <slush> yes, but this add next transaction to the chain
76 2011-03-02 00:17:50 <nanotube> slush: add an extra output to the generation tx
77 2011-03-02 00:17:53 <amiller> you want to stuff the transaction in the block itself eh
78 2011-03-02 00:18:03 <luke-jr> what nanotube said
79 2011-03-02 00:18:04 <slush> I'm thinking, for example, to whitelisting faucet address from keeping fees
80 2011-03-02 00:18:29 <luke-jr> nanotube: actually, how could he know (generally) where to send it?
81 2011-03-02 00:18:33 <luke-jr> I guess the source address
82 2011-03-02 00:19:14 <nanotube> luke-jr: right
83 2011-03-02 00:19:31 <luke-jr> fwiw, I just cashed out enough to make my USD in the black :P
84 2011-03-02 00:19:45 <luke-jr> including covering all my taxes, and Radeon price
85 2011-03-02 00:19:58 <bk128> I'm still 600 in the red
86 2011-03-02 00:20:00 <luke-jr> (and electric)
87 2011-03-02 00:20:20 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/tree/packet
88 2011-03-02 00:20:24 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, if you're interested
89 2011-03-02 00:20:41 <luke-jr> actually, I'm $6.58 in the red still
90 2011-03-02 00:20:46 <luke-jr> forgot to include March electricity
91 2011-03-02 00:20:56 <luke-jr> I guess technically, I haven't incurred the $15 yet though
92 2011-03-02 00:21:03 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, sounds like you're not including capital acquisition
93 2011-03-02 00:21:07 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
94 2011-03-02 00:21:12 <phantomcircuit> you now have the hardware
95 2011-03-02 00:21:16 <phantomcircuit> it's not an expense
96 2011-03-02 00:21:18 <luke-jr> no, I'm not counting that.
97 2011-03-02 00:21:18 <phantomcircuit> it's an investment
98 2011-03-02 00:21:24 <luke-jr> because I only use the hardware for mining
99 2011-03-02 00:21:32 <phantomcircuit> you have to calculate it as a depreciating asset
100 2011-03-02 00:21:38 <luke-jr> I don't.
101 2011-03-02 00:21:44 <phantomcircuit> ok no you dont
102 2011-03-02 00:21:50 <luke-jr> I have it only for BitCoin. Otherwise, I wouldn't have it.
103 2011-03-02 00:22:00 <phantomcircuit> but usually you would since it's the most significant cost of your bitcoin related activities
104 2011-03-02 00:22:07 <luke-jr> actually, it isn't.
105 2011-03-02 00:22:09 <amiller> phantomcircuit, knowing how it depreciates requires predicting the bitcoin market itself
106 2011-03-02 00:22:19 <phantomcircuit> amiller, no it doesn't...
107 2011-03-02 00:22:30 <phantomcircuit> amiller, it requires predicting the life time of the hardware
108 2011-03-02 00:22:44 <amiller> well, you're right
109 2011-03-02 00:22:51 <amiller> luke-jr, you could always sell your rig and add that to your balance
110 2011-03-02 00:22:54 <luke-jr> I believe my bitcoin purchases were more than Radeon
111 2011-03-02 00:23:00 <luke-jr> amiller: I could also sell my remaining bitcoins
112 2011-03-02 00:23:18 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh, well
113 2011-03-02 00:23:19 <phantomcircuit> yeah
114 2011-03-02 00:23:28 <luke-jr> 271 BTC left in my wallet
115 2011-03-02 00:24:01 <luke-jr> until the day bitcoin succeeds, I am keeping track of my USD costs/benefit :p
116 2011-03-02 00:24:06 <amiller> if you're going to add up your whole effort, you should at least value your rig conservatively not count it as zero
117 2011-03-02 00:24:29 <luke-jr> amiller: I'm not valuing bitcoins even.
118 2011-03-02 00:24:36 <luke-jr> let alone the Radeon which has only mining as its purpose
119 2011-03-02 00:25:02 <luke-jr> I *could* make a nice profit if I sell it all today.
120 2011-03-02 00:25:08 <luke-jr> but I'd prefer to keep it where iti s
121 2011-03-02 00:25:21 <luke-jr> at this point, no matter what happens to bitcoin, I have broken even.
122 2011-03-02 00:27:04 Cusipzzz has joined
123 2011-03-02 00:30:22 <slush> price should go back to parity. The 0.8-0.9 price is little boring
124 2011-03-02 00:31:04 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
125 2011-03-02 00:31:12 <luke-jr> slush: I'm sure it will
126 2011-03-02 00:31:19 <luke-jr> I just wanted to be 100% certain :P
127 2011-03-02 00:31:45 <slush> and prices are also calculating better, when you have 1:1 ratio
128 2011-03-02 00:31:52 <slush> or similar, like 1BTC for 10 USD
129 2011-03-02 00:32:44 <luke-jr> only in decimal :P
130 2011-03-02 00:32:52 <slush> hehe, I expected that ;)
131 2011-03-02 00:33:15 <luke-jr> I can't wait until 1 BTC = 1525.88 USD :P
132 2011-03-02 00:33:20 <luke-jr> that's TBC parity
133 2011-03-02 00:33:38 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
134 2011-03-02 00:34:16 hazek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
135 2011-03-02 00:34:28 <slush> I think it will need some time ;)
136 2011-03-02 00:34:39 <luke-jr> slush: just about as much time as widespread Tonal adoption
137 2011-03-02 00:34:44 * luke-jr thought this through, see
138 2011-03-02 00:35:29 <luke-jr> slush: interested in my policy changes? :P
139 2011-03-02 00:35:31 <nanotube> haha tbc parity ftw.
140 2011-03-02 00:35:47 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so what the hell is a tonal bitcoin?
141 2011-03-02 00:35:55 <slush> which one? I'm failing with reading everything here :)
142 2011-03-02 00:36:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you're not new⦠you don't know yet?
143 2011-03-02 00:36:19 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, no i realized it was a different scale and decided i dont care
144 2011-03-02 00:36:25 <phantomcircuit> but now im mildly interested
145 2011-03-02 00:36:27 <phantomcircuit> so what is it
146 2011-03-02 00:36:38 <slush> phantomcircuit: megabytes of explanations are already logged into this channel history. Feel free to study here :)
147 2011-03-02 00:36:42 <luke-jr> slush: 1 TBC per Báµ for used-to-be-free tx, then 1 TBC per BË¢
148 2011-03-02 00:37:00 <xelister> phantomcircuit: its like hexadecimal, but you use gay unicode glyphs that noone has for digits
149 2011-03-02 00:37:03 <luke-jr> slush: so 0.00065536 BTC minimum per 512 bytes normally
150 2011-03-02 00:37:09 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: see ,,(bc,wiki tonal bitcoin)
151 2011-03-02 00:37:09 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin | The total number of Tonal BitCoins ever (analogous to the 21mil BTC) is just ... one can guess whether it is properly Decimal BitCoin or Tonal BitCoin with ...
152 2011-03-02 00:37:11 <phantomcircuit> i see little symbols but have the font too small to tell what they are
153 2011-03-02 00:37:16 <slush> hehe
154 2011-03-02 00:37:17 <luke-jr> slush: 0.00004096 BTC minimum for the first 10k or so
155 2011-03-02 00:37:53 <luke-jr> slush: basically, much cheaper fees, but fees are required
156 2011-03-02 00:37:53 <phantomcircuit> 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, î§, 9, î§, î§, î§, î§, î§, 10
157 2011-03-02 00:37:55 <phantomcircuit> nice blocks
158 2011-03-02 00:38:04 <TheKid> phantomcircuit: it's a stupid way to count things
159 2011-03-02 00:38:04 <TheKid> ;)
160 2011-03-02 00:38:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: if you see blocks, your font is lacking
161 2011-03-02 00:38:15 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im sure it is
162 2011-03-02 00:38:17 <TheKid> I see what appears to be kanji
163 2011-03-02 00:38:24 <xelister> for me î§, î§, î§, î§ look the same, and î§ looks like chinese character
164 2011-03-02 00:38:25 <Necr0s> aw chroist
165 2011-03-02 00:38:27 <phantomcircuit> TheKid, your client sucks
166 2011-03-02 00:38:38 <amiller> i see dominos
167 2011-03-02 00:38:40 <amiller> x-chat
168 2011-03-02 00:38:41 <phantomcircuit> yes opera
169 2011-03-02 00:38:47 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/glyphs/tonal-table.png
170 2011-03-02 00:38:48 <phantomcircuit> amiller, as most people will
171 2011-03-02 00:38:56 <amiller> oh
172 2011-03-02 00:39:21 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/screenshots/snapshot59.png
173 2011-03-02 00:39:42 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im all for any system in which bong is a unit of measure
174 2011-03-02 00:39:46 <xelister> luke-jr: huh?
175 2011-03-02 00:39:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: lol
176 2011-03-02 00:39:54 <luke-jr> xelister: ?
177 2011-03-02 00:39:57 <xelister> luke-jr: 0,1,2,3,4 looks like a "0"
178 2011-03-02 00:40:06 <xelister> and 5,6,7,8 does not have any character in that table
179 2011-03-02 00:40:18 <luke-jr> xelister: 0-8 use the same characters as decimal
180 2011-03-02 00:40:31 <luke-jr> E9Ex are for music
181 2011-03-02 00:40:36 tylergillies has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
182 2011-03-02 00:40:36 <nanotube> amiller: xchat and dominos here too
183 2011-03-02 00:40:38 <Necr0s> It's kinda purdy and romantic lookin, but I think hexadecimal is already quite a bit more established...
184 2011-03-02 00:40:53 <luke-jr> Necr0s: hexadecimal is not usable for most things
185 2011-03-02 00:41:14 <luke-jr> Necr0s: how do you pronounce abcdef1234567890 ?
186 2011-03-02 00:41:15 <amiller> i don't see the advantage over hex
187 2011-03-02 00:41:16 <Necr0s> uh...such as?
188 2011-03-02 00:41:20 <nanotube> luke-jr: http://www.intuitor.com/hex/
189 2011-03-02 00:41:28 <amiller> yeah that links
190 2011-03-02 00:41:32 <amiller> link*
191 2011-03-02 00:41:35 <nanotube> though they essentially came up with arbitrary pronunciations for things too
192 2011-03-02 00:41:52 <TheKid> phantomcircuit: what's wrong with opera?
193 2011-03-02 00:41:52 <nanotube> so... if we're going to go hex, we might as well use tonal pronunciations. because they have 'bong' in them.
194 2011-03-02 00:41:56 <luke-jr> nanotube: it's still missing units
195 2011-03-02 00:42:06 * xelister smokes the bong
196 2011-03-02 00:42:12 <phantomcircuit> TheKid, it handles irc utf-8 wrong
197 2011-03-02 00:42:14 <luke-jr> amiller: also, months
198 2011-03-02 00:42:15 * xelister starts writting HURD
199 2011-03-02 00:42:22 <phantomcircuit> TheKid, it thinks it's just normal utf-8, which it's not
200 2011-03-02 00:42:29 <Necr0s> Seems analagous to dvorak, with a bit more obscurity.
201 2011-03-02 00:42:42 <TheKid> phantomcircuit: oh well :P
202 2011-03-02 00:42:48 <TheKid> hasn't been a problem until now
203 2011-03-02 00:42:49 <phantomcircuit> UTF-8 can have \r\n as a valid glyph
204 2011-03-02 00:42:51 <nanotube> Necr0s: dvorak ftw. :)
205 2011-03-02 00:42:52 <TheKid> and it's only tonal bitcoin
206 2011-03-02 00:42:57 <luke-jr> Necr0s: exactly
207 2011-03-02 00:43:00 <TheKid> nobody cares about it anyway
208 2011-03-02 00:43:05 <phantomcircuit> if you can convince someone in opera to paste something you can do stuff as them
209 2011-03-02 00:43:06 <phantomcircuit> it's neat
210 2011-03-02 00:43:16 <TheKid> such as?
211 2011-03-02 00:43:24 <phantomcircuit> most people however refuse to copypasta things with weird glyphs
212 2011-03-02 00:43:35 <da2ce7> G'moring bitcoiners!
213 2011-03-02 00:43:50 <luke-jr> Tonal months: Anuary, Debrian, Timander, Gostus, Suvenary, Bylian, Ratamber, Mesudius, Nictoary, Kolumbian, Husamber, Vyctorious, Lamboary, Polian, Fylander, Tonborius
214 2011-03-02 00:44:01 <Necr0s> ^now there's a guy with a hexadecimal compatible nick.
215 2011-03-02 00:44:04 <da2ce7> eveyone have a good sexytime when I was away! :)
216 2011-03-02 00:44:14 tylergillies has joined
217 2011-03-02 00:44:14 tylergillies has quit (Changing host)
218 2011-03-02 00:44:14 tylergillies has joined
219 2011-03-02 00:44:19 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: you should follow python library conventions.
220 2011-03-02 00:44:29 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, like what
221 2011-03-02 00:44:40 <nanotube> luke-jr: rename second month to Debian, and you'll have a ready pool of thousands just itching to adopt tonal. :)
222 2011-03-02 00:44:47 <luke-jr> nanotube: lol
223 2011-03-02 00:44:53 <luke-jr> nanotube: but I can't change anything, I didn't make it
224 2011-03-02 00:44:53 <xelister> luke-jr: is John W. Nystrom paying you?
225 2011-03-02 00:44:58 <jrabbit> put your shit in a folder YouLib and have YourLib/__init__.py
226 2011-03-02 00:45:00 <luke-jr> if I could, I'd invent new glyphs for everything
227 2011-03-02 00:45:02 <xelister> that would be strange seeing as he's dead
228 2011-03-02 00:45:05 <luke-jr> xelister: dead men can't pay me :p
229 2011-03-02 00:45:18 <jrabbit> so people can access your stuff as YourLib.module
230 2011-03-02 00:45:18 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, send me a patch ;)
231 2011-03-02 00:45:22 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: rofl
232 2011-03-02 00:45:31 <nanotube> luke-jr: so... make tonalv2. seeing as how tonal adoption is ~0, now's the time to change things up.
233 2011-03-02 00:45:33 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: its not a patch its a directory restructure
234 2011-03-02 00:45:37 <phantomcircuit> I WILL NOW REFUSE TO DO SO UNLESS PROVIDED WITH A PATCH
235 2011-03-02 00:45:48 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, git patch can do that
236 2011-03-02 00:45:49 <jrabbit> I could technically file a pull request
237 2011-03-02 00:45:55 <luke-jr> nanotube: I decided months ago, that Tonal v2 would be for my children to do
238 2011-03-02 00:46:09 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: it'd be eqwual to the size of the repo
239 2011-03-02 00:46:10 <luke-jr> nanotube: being raised with Tonal, they will no doubt pick up on other problems I am not noticing
240 2011-03-02 00:46:12 * xelister calls sociall services
241 2011-03-02 00:46:18 <jrabbit> lol dude just learn to do shit right
242 2011-03-02 00:46:32 <jrabbit> it makes getting pypi stuff done easier
243 2011-03-02 00:46:33 <luke-jr> so far, the pronunciations are the biggest problem
244 2011-03-02 00:46:35 <nanotube> luke-jr: step 1: use standard hexadecimal digits, cuz 9==10 pushes people away, as do the non-existent glyphs.
245 2011-03-02 00:46:47 * jrabbit thought he didn't need this but then wrote an app that needed it
246 2011-03-02 00:46:51 <jrabbit> its cruitial
247 2011-03-02 00:46:57 <luke-jr> nanotube: new glyphs make it unambiguous
248 2011-03-02 00:47:07 <luke-jr> by, vy, fy sound too close; ra and la too
249 2011-03-02 00:47:07 <xelister> cant we just use hexadecimal
250 2011-03-02 00:47:14 <xelister> - harder to read
251 2011-03-02 00:47:16 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, honestly i just dont really care, i had it all in it's own directory but was tired of payload.parser.parser
252 2011-03-02 00:47:18 <xelister> - harder to work on computer
253 2011-03-02 00:47:18 <luke-jr> xelister: hexadecimal, again, does not implement most of a number system
254 2011-03-02 00:47:25 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, anyways, it's bitcoin.payload.parser
255 2011-03-02 00:47:28 <xelister> - digits 1..8 and especially 9 confused with 10-base
256 2011-03-02 00:47:29 <luke-jr> xelister: erm, not harder to read except for decimal people
257 2011-03-02 00:47:33 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: don't give me shit because you don't like to follow sane patterns :P
258 2011-03-02 00:47:36 <xelister> - harder to calculate by normal people
259 2011-03-02 00:47:40 <xelister> - harder to read by people
260 2011-03-02 00:47:43 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, i am following the pattern
261 2011-03-02 00:47:44 <xelister> - noone understands it
262 2011-03-02 00:47:45 <phantomcircuit> lolololol
263 2011-03-02 00:47:45 <xelister> ok now
264 2011-03-02 00:47:47 <jrabbit> I'm ok with you not wanting to jsut realize its BAD
265 2011-03-02 00:47:48 <jrabbit> :P
266 2011-03-02 00:47:49 <luke-jr> xelister: no, tonal is easier to calculate by normal unbiased people
267 2011-03-02 00:47:53 <xelister> WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS?
268 2011-03-02 00:47:58 <luke-jr> xelister: read the book
269 2011-03-02 00:48:04 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: than why is it in . in the rpeo!
270 2011-03-02 00:48:13 <xelister> unfortunatelly 99.99999% people are biased into 10-base system
271 2011-03-02 00:48:22 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, oh that's wrong
272 2011-03-02 00:48:28 <jrabbit> lol.
273 2011-03-02 00:48:28 <phantomcircuit> should be bitcoin-alt
274 2011-03-02 00:48:34 <phantomcircuit> yeah
275 2011-03-02 00:48:34 <phantomcircuit> oops
276 2011-03-02 00:48:37 <TheKid> luke-jr: no, 10s are pretty damn easy
277 2011-03-02 00:48:37 <luke-jr> xelister: and 99.99999% were biased into imperial units before metric
278 2011-03-02 00:48:38 <phantomcircuit> whatevah
279 2011-03-02 00:48:40 <jrabbit> hmmm?
280 2011-03-02 00:48:47 <luke-jr> TheKid: 10s are easy no matter what base
281 2011-03-02 00:48:47 <TheKid> considering that everyone thinks in 10s
282 2011-03-02 00:48:52 <jrabbit> it is bitcoin-alt
283 2011-03-02 00:48:55 <TheKid> base 10, sorry
284 2011-03-02 00:48:59 <jrabbit> btw
285 2011-03-02 00:49:04 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, no in a subfolder with the same name
286 2011-03-02 00:49:05 <luke-jr> TheKid: you only think in decimal because you were taught it growing up
287 2011-03-02 00:49:06 <jrabbit> you can't import bitcoin-alt
288 2011-03-02 00:49:10 <jrabbit> iirc
289 2011-03-02 00:49:13 <phantomcircuit> i really just dont feel like doing the ip transaction stuff
290 2011-03-02 00:49:17 <phantomcircuit> how much is that really used?
291 2011-03-02 00:49:23 <TheKid> especially considering that our numbers are based on decimal
292 2011-03-02 00:49:24 <luke-jr> TheKid: every base is base 10 :P
293 2011-03-02 00:49:28 <TheKid> also I don't care
294 2011-03-02 00:49:32 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: ;_;
295 2011-03-02 00:49:38 <TheKid> tonal is a waste of time, afk
296 2011-03-02 00:49:39 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: do you propgram in python regularly?
297 2011-03-02 00:49:45 <xelister> luke-jr: what are the unicode glypjhs
298 2011-03-02 00:49:50 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: it's not used. don't bother with ip tx.
299 2011-03-02 00:49:53 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, so i should have an empty __init__.py?
300 2011-03-02 00:49:57 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: yeah
301 2011-03-02 00:49:57 <xelister> phantomcircuit: where you fund the list of digits?
302 2011-03-02 00:50:02 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, mostly i hax it up
303 2011-03-02 00:50:04 <jrabbit> in a lib folder
304 2011-03-02 00:50:15 <jrabbit> UNLESS
305 2011-03-02 00:50:23 <luke-jr> xelister: what do you mean?
306 2011-03-02 00:50:33 <necrodearia> "BitCoins can be traded in fractions up to 8 decimal places. If BitCoin were to ever to become a general currency used by billions, this precision would not be enough for minimum transactions to be small enough to buy consumable goods."
307 2011-03-02 00:50:38 <necrodearia> http://thoughtfulcode.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/bitcoin-is-fatally-flawed/
308 2011-03-02 00:50:41 <phantomcircuit> i guess i should probably separate the network protocol from the block/tx stuff
309 2011-03-02 00:50:42 <jrabbit> you've got all of it in a single file or its user stuff not libs
310 2011-03-02 00:50:43 <xelister> luke-jr: quick!!! what is 9î§î§î§î§ + î§î§ ? you have 10 seconds
311 2011-03-02 00:50:45 <xelister> 9
312 2011-03-02 00:50:48 <xelister> 8
313 2011-03-02 00:50:52 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: though some python people want apps as libs
314 2011-03-02 00:50:52 <xelister> 5
315 2011-03-02 00:50:56 <Diablo-D3> necrodearia: lol the trolls
316 2011-03-02 00:50:57 <xelister> 3
317 2011-03-02 00:50:58 <jrabbit> which is silly
318 2011-03-02 00:51:01 <xelister> 1
319 2011-03-02 00:51:05 <xelister> luke-jr: fail.
320 2011-03-02 00:51:16 <necrodearia> Let's see...
321 2011-03-02 00:51:18 <necrodearia> where's bitbot?
322 2011-03-02 00:51:33 <xelister> luke-jr: trouble adding it all up? but why if it is so natural
323 2011-03-02 00:51:47 <luke-jr> xelister: because I was raised with decimal, and you picked weird numbers :P
324 2011-03-02 00:51:48 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: anywho its just a good idea to have structure so you can share your stuff easily
325 2011-03-02 00:51:49 <necrodearia> bitbot! where are you?
326 2011-03-02 00:51:50 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, i wonder if these people even have the slighest clue
327 2011-03-02 00:51:52 bitbot has joined
328 2011-03-02 00:51:55 bitbot has quit (Changing host)
329 2011-03-02 00:51:55 bitbot has joined
330 2011-03-02 00:51:56 <necrodearia> aha! there you are!
331 2011-03-02 00:51:59 <necrodearia> ;worldpop
332 2011-03-02 00:52:03 <luke-jr> xelister: do 695515 + 190 without any decimal foreknowledge.
333 2011-03-02 00:52:13 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: i.e. I wouldn't package your lib as is if someone paid me. :P
334 2011-03-02 00:52:18 <Diablo-D3> "BitCoin is a Deflationary Currency System and Thatâs Bad"
335 2011-03-02 00:52:20 <Diablo-D3> fail.
336 2011-03-02 00:52:28 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, oh neither would i
337 2011-03-02 00:52:29 <Diablo-D3> he just eroded his entire argument with one <h2>.
338 2011-03-02 00:52:34 <Diablo-D3> gj faggot
339 2011-03-02 00:52:34 <bitbot> necrodearia: Connection refused.
340 2011-03-02 00:52:37 <necrodearia> Nuuuuu
341 2011-03-02 00:52:41 <necrodearia> why refused?
342 2011-03-02 00:52:45 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, i also wouldn't written 2/3rds of it while drunk
343 2011-03-02 00:52:51 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: just assume theres an angry packager who wants your crap :P
344 2011-03-02 00:53:13 <Necr0s> Oh, hey, validate my assumption: If I "lose" my wallet file, any BTC in it are gone forever from the system. Correct?
345 2011-03-02 00:53:14 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: it can only improve :P
346 2011-03-02 00:53:15 <necrodearia> oh, right
347 2011-03-02 00:53:23 <necrodearia> ;worldpop
348 2011-03-02 00:53:25 <bitbot> necrodearia: According to http://is.gd/dsqcH the world population is 6,903,101,268. If everyone had the same amount of bitcoins, everyone would have 0.00304211 bitcoins. If 0.00000001 bitcoins were equivalent to US$0.01, then everyone would have equivalent of US$3,042.11095632 and the value of all bitcoins would be equivalent of US$21,000,000,000,000.00.
349 2011-03-02 00:53:27 <jrabbit> Necr0s: thery still exist
350 2011-03-02 00:53:35 <jrabbit> Necr0s: you can't use them but they "exist"
351 2011-03-02 00:54:22 <Necr0s> Right, so the means to transfer their ownership, their "forward keys" if you will, are what is lost.
352 2011-03-02 00:54:40 <necrodearia> so, if everyone had bitcoins, then each would have an amount equivalent to 304,211 or 6 digits
353 2011-03-02 00:54:49 <jrabbit> Necr0s: yeah
354 2011-03-02 00:55:00 <phantomcircuit> the minimum number of BTC that can be traded is a nano BTC right?
355 2011-03-02 00:55:06 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no
356 2011-03-02 00:55:16 <xelister> luke-jr: I dont think this is very natural... well humans are not computers we dont need base-2 deviviate system
357 2011-03-02 00:55:16 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what is it?
358 2011-03-02 00:55:20 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 10 nano-BTC
359 2011-03-02 00:55:23 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: iirc the only limit is in the client not the protocol
360 2011-03-02 00:55:32 <luke-jr> xelister: humans work best with base 2
361 2011-03-02 00:55:40 <jrabbit> oh thats the higher limit
362 2011-03-02 00:55:42 <jrabbit> nvm
363 2011-03-02 00:55:47 <necrodearia> jrabbit, hmm, bitcoin can be divided beyond 8 decimal places?
364 2011-03-02 00:56:05 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: https://github.com/jrabbit/tasktwit I do the saner method here
365 2011-03-02 00:56:11 <luke-jr> necrodearia: supposedly, but I don't think so
366 2011-03-02 00:56:13 <phantomcircuit> protocol is limited to 64 bits
367 2011-03-02 00:56:27 <phantomcircuit> ok so
368 2011-03-02 00:56:32 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: https://github.com/jrabbit/hitman I do the bad way here, but I bring the libs people need >_<
369 2011-03-02 00:56:35 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units
370 2011-03-02 00:57:23 <necrodearia> Well, even if bitcoin cannot be divided beyond 8 decimal places, other implementations such as the internal witcoin currency at one site I'm working on (domain name withhelld to prevent spammage) can be used to provide further decimal places
371 2011-03-02 00:57:37 <Necr0s> So, you'd need 25 bits on the integer side to count up to 21m...
372 2011-03-02 00:57:38 <luke-jr> necrodearia: the base unit is small enough.
373 2011-03-02 00:57:43 omglolbbq has joined
374 2011-03-02 00:57:43 <phantomcircuit> ok so currently there is ~ 8 trillion USD in circulation
375 2011-03-02 00:57:56 <luke-jr> Necr0s: it is always an integer
376 2011-03-02 00:58:02 <phantomcircuit> the maximum number of BTC in tradable units is 2.1 * 10^16
377 2011-03-02 00:58:09 <luke-jr> Necr0s: 21 million is just the Decimal representation
378 2011-03-02 00:58:14 omglolbbq1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
379 2011-03-02 00:58:22 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: less
380 2011-03-02 00:58:31 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im including deposits
381 2011-03-02 00:58:32 zaroth has joined
382 2011-03-02 00:58:36 <luke-jr> 2,099,999,997,690,000
383 2011-03-02 00:58:50 <phantomcircuit> what?
384 2011-03-02 00:58:51 <luke-jr> that is how many raw bitcoins there will ever be
385 2011-03-02 00:59:01 <phantomcircuit> ok
386 2011-03-02 00:59:20 <luke-jr> 7,75î§0,5î§î§4,00î§0 in Tonal
387 2011-03-02 00:59:21 <phantomcircuit> you're still talking easily 500x the amount of USD in circulation
388 2011-03-02 00:59:37 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: right, it isn't a problem
389 2011-03-02 00:59:48 <Necr0s> 5x USC ;P
390 2011-03-02 00:59:55 <luke-jr> TBC is based such that 1 TBC is a reasonable trading value when bitcoin succeeds
391 2011-03-02 01:00:08 <luke-jr> 7,75î§0,5î§î§4.00î§ TBC total
392 2011-03-02 01:00:25 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, send me a pull request for a fixed repo
393 2011-03-02 01:00:28 <phantomcircuit> ;)
394 2011-03-02 01:00:39 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: maybe in a ibt
395 2011-03-02 01:01:00 <phantomcircuit> pushed support for parsing a block
396 2011-03-02 01:01:08 <phantomcircuit> neat how it's only like 5 loc
397 2011-03-02 01:01:18 <phantomcircuit> ok ok 15
398 2011-03-02 01:01:20 <luke-jr> that's 4.î§9 TBC per human alive
399 2011-03-02 01:01:37 mxer has joined
400 2011-03-02 01:01:42 <phantomcircuit> also i should probably expand the target from the compact format
401 2011-03-02 01:01:48 <phantomcircuit> why is there even a compact format >.>
402 2011-03-02 01:01:58 <Keefe> so maybe 1000 BTC will someday be worth 1 billion 2011 USD someday
403 2011-03-02 01:02:05 <[Tycho]> "<luke-jr> xelister: humans work best with base 2" - i suspect something wrong here...
404 2011-03-02 01:02:05 <phantomcircuit> OH NOSE THE 28 BYTES
405 2011-03-02 01:02:45 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: try it. take a piece of paper and fold it into 10 (decimal) pieces.
406 2011-03-02 01:02:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: then take a piece of paper and fold it into 10 (tonal; 16 deci) pieces.
407 2011-03-02 01:03:02 <luke-jr> without any tools helping you
408 2011-03-02 01:03:10 <[Tycho]> Why would i do that ?
409 2011-03-02 01:03:25 <luke-jr> to prove that despite being raised with decimal, you can still do tonal easier
410 2011-03-02 01:03:47 <[Tycho]> It's just a synthetic test that can't prove anything.
411 2011-03-02 01:04:02 <luke-jr> â¦
412 2011-03-02 01:04:15 <[Tycho]> And why do you call it "tonal" instead of hex ?
413 2011-03-02 01:04:38 * molecular is having a deja vue
414 2011-03-02 01:05:28 <Necr0s> Same reason one calls it a gluteus maximus instead of an ass?
415 2011-03-02 01:05:52 * jrabbit uses kiloseconds and thinks luke-jr's proposal is silyl
416 2011-03-02 01:06:11 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: because it is called tonal
417 2011-03-02 01:06:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: 10 is pronounced 'ton'
418 2011-03-02 01:06:34 <magnetron> try folding a paper 16 times
419 2011-03-02 01:06:38 <magnetron> you will not succeed
420 2011-03-02 01:06:52 <luke-jr> jrabbit: good luck with that. The French tried to make a decimal time system and failed miserably :D
421 2011-03-02 01:07:01 <luke-jr> magnetron: I've done it many times. Why can't you succeed?
422 2011-03-02 01:07:03 <jrabbit> luke-jr: tbh it works
423 2011-03-02 01:07:08 <jrabbit> I don't need anyone else to use it
424 2011-03-02 01:07:11 <luke-jr> jrabbit: no, it doesn't.
425 2011-03-02 01:07:34 <luke-jr> unless you take the awkward 86.4 kiloseconds to be a day
426 2011-03-02 01:07:37 * BurtyB thinks magnetron needs more rules on the folds
427 2011-03-02 01:07:49 <jrabbit> luke-jr: I do.
428 2011-03-02 01:07:54 <luke-jr> jrabbit: ⦠why?
429 2011-03-02 01:08:09 <luke-jr> how sensible is that?
430 2011-03-02 01:09:27 <xelister> ok tonal is better for cutting values in half
431 2011-03-02 01:09:32 <magnetron> why not use 0,1,...,9,A,..,F like basically any other base-16 software available? do you have a religious affliction for the works of Nyström?
432 2011-03-02 01:09:44 <xelister> but most trade is like, the price is X. and then you want to calculate X+Y
433 2011-03-02 01:09:47 <xelister> or X-Y
434 2011-03-02 01:10:20 <jrabbit> luke-jr: http://bavardage.github.com/Kiloseconds/
435 2011-03-02 01:10:22 <jrabbit> that one
436 2011-03-02 01:10:32 <luke-jr> xelister: very often, trade is "2 for 25 cents"
437 2011-03-02 01:10:35 <luke-jr> xelister: I wonder why
438 2011-03-02 01:10:37 <jrabbit> I like that definition
439 2011-03-02 01:11:04 <luke-jr> jrabbit: your project is my enemy :P
440 2011-03-02 01:11:08 int0x27h has quit (Changing host)
441 2011-03-02 01:11:08 int0x27h has joined
442 2011-03-02 01:11:23 <jrabbit> luke-jr: b/c 1 ks =~15 min
443 2011-03-02 01:11:33 <jrabbit> it makes a good temporal time feel
444 2011-03-02 01:11:43 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, how you like me now
445 2011-03-02 01:11:55 <xelister> luke-jr: or 3 for 25 centw
446 2011-03-02 01:11:59 <xelister> luke-jr: or 7 for 25 cents
447 2011-03-02 01:12:02 <luke-jr> jrabbit: 1 Tim is 1.5 hours
448 2011-03-02 01:12:03 <xelister> and how here tonal helps
449 2011-03-02 01:12:13 <magnetron> jrabbit: hey try calculating any physical quantities using another time measurement than s, ks etc etc
450 2011-03-02 01:12:20 <luke-jr> jrabbit: 1 Timton is ~5 minutes
451 2011-03-02 01:12:53 <luke-jr> there are 1000 timmills per day
452 2011-03-02 01:13:13 <magnetron> can we please talk about bitcoin and its development instead if CONSTANTLY trying to use it as some sort of platform for a long-forgotten script for base-16?
453 2011-03-02 01:13:29 <nanotube> #bitcoin-tonal , anyone? :)
454 2011-03-02 01:13:30 <luke-jr> magnetron: go ahead. I didn't exactly bring it up
455 2011-03-02 01:13:33 <luke-jr> nanotube: #tonal
456 2011-03-02 01:13:37 <nanotube> heh
457 2011-03-02 01:13:53 <quellhorst> damn, what are you guys doing that have a bunch of mining rigs for heat?
458 2011-03-02 01:14:10 <magnetron> quellhorst: live on iceland
459 2011-03-02 01:14:12 <xelister> quellhorst: inviting your girlfriend over for romantic night at fireplace
460 2011-03-02 01:14:13 <luke-jr> too hot here. :p
461 2011-03-02 01:14:15 <quellhorst> haha
462 2011-03-02 01:14:31 <phantomcircuit> xelister, girlfriend, HEY GUYS WE GOT A COMEDIAN HERE
463 2011-03-02 01:14:34 <TheKid> My room is far too warm, as I just realized ;)
464 2011-03-02 01:14:35 <quellhorst> I'm gonna be happy when it hits the 40s tonight
465 2011-03-02 01:14:41 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: lol
466 2011-03-02 01:15:16 <quellhorst> and if your GF is a gamer, she will be pissed that you are wasting all these vid cards on making the place hot
467 2011-03-02 01:15:36 <luke-jr> Here, the low is 2Tp tonight (55F or 12C)
468 2011-03-02 01:16:25 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, stop doing that >:|
469 2011-03-02 01:16:42 <magnetron> luke-jr: you're bringing it up
470 2011-03-02 01:16:45 <phantomcircuit> the mish mash of var_uint and fixed length uints in the network protocol is maddening
471 2011-03-02 01:16:57 <luke-jr> magnetron: I'm just taking about weather
472 2011-03-02 01:17:15 <luke-jr> it's not like the rest of the world is even united on F or C anyway
473 2011-03-02 01:17:33 <phantomcircuit> lol the UK is hilarious
474 2011-03-02 01:17:40 <phantomcircuit> if it's hot the temp is reported in F
475 2011-03-02 01:17:42 <phantomcircuit> if it's cold C
476 2011-03-02 01:17:44 <phantomcircuit> WTF GUYS
477 2011-03-02 01:17:47 <luke-jr> wtf really
478 2011-03-02 01:17:49 <luke-jr> â
479 2011-03-02 01:17:49 <phantomcircuit> yes
480 2011-03-02 01:17:53 <phantomcircuit> it's hilarious
481 2011-03-02 01:17:55 <luke-jr> that's total insanity
482 2011-03-02 01:18:01 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: lolo
483 2011-03-02 01:18:23 <luke-jr> where is the crossover point?
484 2011-03-02 01:18:35 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: maybe when its hot is when all the americans are visiting?
485 2011-03-02 01:18:49 <magnetron> phantomcircuit: they must think snow is outlandish. they get like a shock every year when the snow falls, "how could this happen here" and "we must cancel everything"
486 2011-03-02 01:19:17 <magnetron> phantomcircuit: the underground grinds to a halt and people skip work
487 2011-03-02 01:19:33 <phantomcircuit> quellhorst, it's because when it's hot F sounds higher, when it's cold C sounds coler
488 2011-03-02 01:19:36 <phantomcircuit> colder*
489 2011-03-02 01:19:39 <phantomcircuit> ie
490 2011-03-02 01:19:42 <phantomcircuit> they're fucking retarded
491 2011-03-02 01:19:56 <magnetron> i like how most americans don't even know what units they use
492 2011-03-02 01:20:02 <phantomcircuit> magnetron, the london underground stops for nothing
493 2011-03-02 01:20:11 <magnetron> a majority think they use imperial units
494 2011-03-02 01:20:27 hazek has joined
495 2011-03-02 01:20:28 <phantomcircuit> suicides are cleared in like 10 minutes
496 2011-03-02 01:20:29 <phantomcircuit> lol
497 2011-03-02 01:21:21 <phantomcircuit> i should add sanity checking to some of this code
498 2011-03-02 01:21:23 <phantomcircuit> MEH
499 2011-03-02 01:21:32 <magnetron> sanity is optional
500 2011-03-02 01:21:34 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, you should add sanity checking to some of this code
501 2011-03-02 01:21:42 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: i know that, but just trying to come up with a rational excuse for them.
502 2011-03-02 01:21:45 <hazek> lol I just wrote an email to a U.S. PR company that made this promo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM56c8Cpll4 among others the rest on that channel and asked them if they'd be willing to make a video for bitcoins
503 2011-03-02 01:21:49 <hazek> I wonder if they'll get back to me
504 2011-03-02 01:21:52 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I can review it maybe tomorrow
505 2011-03-02 01:21:55 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: how long is it
506 2011-03-02 01:22:46 <jrabbit> I'm not well acquainted with bitcoin internals though so it'll mostly be idiom checking
507 2011-03-02 01:23:37 <magnetron> how big is the keysize of private keys
508 2011-03-02 01:23:52 <magnetron> for a bitcoin address
509 2011-03-02 01:24:30 <phantomcircuit> 1470 loc
510 2011-03-02 01:25:16 <phantomcircuit> im a drucken coding machine
511 2011-03-02 01:25:25 <Diablo-D3> arent we all?
512 2011-03-02 01:25:46 <phantomcircuit> we? yes
513 2011-03-02 01:25:47 <magnetron> a programmer is a machine that turns beer into source code
514 2011-03-02 01:25:49 <phantomcircuit> most people? lol no
515 2011-03-02 01:26:44 <Diablo-D3> we arent really most people
516 2011-03-02 01:26:47 <Diablo-D3> I sure as hell aint
517 2011-03-02 01:26:54 <Diablo-D3> I sort of trancended programming at some point
518 2011-03-02 01:27:30 <Netsniper> now you just *think* and the computer *does*
519 2011-03-02 01:28:04 <magnetron> Netsniper: he got one of those newfangled bluetooth implants
520 2011-03-02 01:28:04 <Diablo-D3> no, now I just threaten people's lives and now other people do
521 2011-03-02 01:28:41 <phantomcircuit> it's amazing how much easier this is w/o booze
522 2011-03-02 01:28:57 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
523 2011-03-02 01:28:58 Syke has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
524 2011-03-02 01:33:35 <phantomcircuit> neat
525 2011-03-02 01:33:41 <phantomcircuit> i now support the network protocol completely
526 2011-03-02 01:33:45 <phantomcircuit> (except ip trans)
527 2011-03-02 01:33:54 <phantomcircuit> now ill add sanity checking
528 2011-03-02 01:37:50 <phantomcircuit> added
529 2011-03-02 01:39:46 <xelister> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"><body><a href="mailto:foo<foo@gmail.com>">Foo <foo@gmail.com></a></body>
530 2011-03-02 01:39:55 <xelister> this is what kmial pastes when I copy/paste an email address foo@gmail.com.
531 2011-03-02 01:39:59 <xelister> * kmail
532 2011-03-02 01:40:25 <luke-jr> xelister: lol
533 2011-03-02 01:40:25 <xelister> select email in a text, paste it to another TEXT application, this is what you get. what the
534 2011-03-02 01:40:44 <xelister> oh oh they forgot <title> and charset there.
535 2011-03-02 01:40:50 <luke-jr> optional
536 2011-03-02 01:40:55 <xelister> title is mendatory
537 2011-03-02 01:41:00 <luke-jr> in XHTML 1.0?
538 2011-03-02 01:41:03 <xelister> and <html>
539 2011-03-02 01:41:04 <xelister> I think
540 2011-03-02 01:41:12 <luke-jr> <html> is
541 2011-03-02 01:41:15 <luke-jr> report a bug
542 2011-03-02 01:41:20 <luke-jr> it shouldn't be pasting that as plaintext
543 2011-03-02 01:41:20 <xelister> totally
544 2011-03-02 01:41:34 <xelister> the bug is that they missed title hehe
545 2011-03-02 01:41:47 <luke-jr> no, the bug is in the clipboard handling
546 2011-03-02 01:41:51 <xelister> =)
547 2011-03-02 01:41:54 <luke-jr> or bothâ¦
548 2011-03-02 01:42:12 <luke-jr> actually, the bug in this case is that it has a header and body tag :P
549 2011-03-02 01:42:20 <luke-jr> since you copied an XML fragment
550 2011-03-02 01:44:00 <AAA_awright> It's a valid fragment
551 2011-03-02 01:44:29 <AAA_awright> It contains a subset of a valid document
552 2011-03-02 01:44:45 <[Tycho]> What a generous fee... http://blockexplorer.com/tx/10fea52170a3e552a7f125e6a3458d93feeefb1105d4fd29562c103bffe61de8
553 2011-03-02 01:44:57 <AAA_awright> Actually it isn't, no XHTML namespace
554 2011-03-02 01:45:06 <AAA_awright> The idea is you paste it into another XML document with the same namespace (which they left out) and it combines the two
555 2011-03-02 01:45:15 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that's the Faucet
556 2011-03-02 01:45:29 <AAA_awright> But looks like it's grabbing the wrong clipboard, the formatted one instead of the plain text one?
557 2011-03-02 01:45:31 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: my fee would be slightly more than that, or less, depending on block size
558 2011-03-02 01:45:56 <[Tycho]> Oh, so faucet is cheating :)
559 2011-03-02 01:46:02 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: dunno, it happens whether I paste into Konversation or KWrite, so it sounds like the copyer is at fault
560 2011-03-02 01:46:11 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: not at all, perfectly fair
561 2011-03-02 01:46:21 <[Tycho]> Yes.
562 2011-03-02 01:46:23 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it just won't get premium space in my blocks
563 2011-03-02 01:46:27 <AAA_awright> Quassel, a Qt app, does that to me too, when I copy from my input line to OpenOffice
564 2011-03-02 01:46:32 <[Tycho]> Wow, it works.
565 2011-03-02 01:46:34 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: without a fee, no tx will get ANY space in my blocks
566 2011-03-02 01:46:41 <AAA_awright> Except it's wrapping around CSS information >_>
567 2011-03-02 01:47:05 * [Tycho] set up sound notification to play when block is found by my pool :)
568 2011-03-02 01:47:18 <luke-jr> you have a pool?
569 2011-03-02 01:47:26 <[Tycho]> Yes, of course.
570 2011-03-02 01:47:31 <[Tycho]> How greedy of you
571 2011-03-02 01:48:06 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: my fees are quite reasonable IMO
572 2011-03-02 01:48:15 <AAA_awright> I wonder if there's some way to predict the likelyhood a payment will be accepted in t time, as to expedite payments
573 2011-03-02 01:48:34 <[Tycho]> One of best bitcoin features is free txs :)
574 2011-03-02 01:48:41 <AAA_awright> Computed based on the current processing power of honest nodes, if there was some way to calculate it
575 2011-03-02 01:48:42 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: free tx is temporary
576 2011-03-02 01:49:00 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: Says who
577 2011-03-02 01:49:26 <luke-jr> the network.
578 2011-03-02 01:49:45 <luke-jr> free tx are already getting backlogged
579 2011-03-02 01:50:05 <ArtForz> currently, no
580 2011-03-02 01:50:15 <luke-jr> ArtForz: oh, we caught up?
581 2011-03-02 01:50:23 meanig has joined
582 2011-03-02 01:50:26 <ArtForz> the 731-tx block took care of the backlog
583 2011-03-02 01:50:40 <luke-jr> did someone do that intentionally?
584 2011-03-02 01:50:49 <phantomcircuit> so someone generated a block with looser rules?
585 2011-03-02 01:50:53 <ArtForz> yep
586 2011-03-02 01:51:01 <luke-jr> ArtForz: you?
587 2011-03-02 01:51:03 <ArtForz> nope
588 2011-03-02 01:51:08 <ArtForz> probably someone with 0.3.14 or older
589 2011-03-02 01:51:17 <AAA_awright> It's misleading to say it's "temporary" when in fact it's just less likely with respect to some property varying with time
590 2011-03-02 01:51:24 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lol it's pretty clean actually
591 2011-03-02 01:51:25 Syke has joined
592 2011-03-02 01:51:43 <phantomcircuit> AAA_awright, they're effectively temporary
593 2011-03-02 01:51:55 <phantomcircuit> at somepoint you'll be going backwards in line with free txs
594 2011-03-02 01:52:02 <phantomcircuit> because it's an ordered list, not a line
595 2011-03-02 01:52:21 <ArtForz> it kinda is a line
596 2011-03-02 01:52:23 DoomDumas has joined
597 2011-03-02 01:52:29 <AAA_awright> That's a bit harmful for micropayments isn't it?
598 2011-03-02 01:52:40 <AAA_awright> That's Bitcoin's only real strength
599 2011-03-02 01:52:41 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: depends on the fee schedule
600 2011-03-02 01:52:55 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: I offer lower fees than most
601 2011-03-02 01:53:09 <luke-jr> but I only get a block every 10 days (now)
602 2011-03-02 01:53:10 <AAA_awright> Also, machine-to-machine payments
603 2011-03-02 01:53:30 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: there are no machine-to-machine paymentsâ¦
604 2011-03-02 01:54:11 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: You know what I mean feel free to correct the term
605 2011-03-02 01:54:23 <luke-jr> no, I don't know what you meanâ¦
606 2011-03-02 01:54:25 <AAA_awright> What I use to send coins between my computers on the local network
607 2011-03-02 01:54:38 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: there is no way to do that AFAIK
608 2011-03-02 01:55:34 <necrodearia> hummmmmm, i wonder if I should post briefly about witcoin at reddit... and if so, what content... I imagine something very simple, maybe 2-3 words, nothing more
609 2011-03-02 01:55:51 <necrodearia> what seems like a catchy and very short statement?
610 2011-03-02 01:56:00 <AAA_awright> Is it just me or does the client take forever to load
611 2011-03-02 01:56:02 <necrodearia> previously someone has suggested creddit
612 2011-03-02 01:56:59 <quellhorst> luke-jr: lower fees for what?
613 2011-03-02 01:57:14 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: It's a misleading term but https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/IP_Transactions
614 2011-03-02 01:57:58 <AAA_awright> Which appears to work even though the block explorer doesn't seem to report it, idk what the difference is
615 2011-03-02 01:58:05 <JFK911> ;;bc,stat
616 2011-03-02 01:58:06 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
617 2011-03-02 01:58:07 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
618 2011-03-02 01:58:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111287 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1608 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 55 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59295.63949635
619 2011-03-02 01:58:18 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, what was the number of that block ?
620 2011-03-02 01:58:28 <luke-jr> quellhorst: for transactions smaller than 0.01 BTC, or to fill a block, or with non-standard code
621 2011-03-02 01:58:37 meanig has quit (Quit: Page closed)
622 2011-03-02 01:58:38 `Jaka has quit ()
623 2011-03-02 01:59:21 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: that isn't really useful
624 2011-03-02 01:59:27 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: and IIRC is being removed
625 2011-03-02 01:59:49 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/b/111264
626 2011-03-02 01:59:57 <quellhorst> kinda annoying not getting any bitcoins after having this shit running for hours now
627 2011-03-02 02:00:23 <ArtForz> looks like it was mostly faucet transactions clogging up
628 2011-03-02 02:00:25 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: But now you know what I'm talking about, and if it's not useful it's because it's implemented stupidly
629 2011-03-02 02:01:13 kermit has joined
630 2011-03-02 02:01:27 <Necr0s> quellhorst, I had a 14 day dry spell last month.
631 2011-03-02 02:01:41 <Necr0s> Then hit twice 3 hrs apart.
632 2011-03-02 02:01:43 <AAA_awright> It *should* work with Hostnames (I haven't tried) but "IP Transactions" implies it doesn't, plus there's no signature that will verify the authenticity of the connection, which is trivial to implement if you know what you're doing, and given the heavy use of crypto that Bitcoin uses I would say people know what they're doing
633 2011-03-02 02:01:50 <quellhorst> Necr0s: nice
634 2011-03-02 02:02:08 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: no, it's impossible to verify the connection's authenticity short of something like SSL
635 2011-03-02 02:02:23 <quellhorst> you guys keep your cases closed up or open one side?
636 2011-03-02 02:02:28 <luke-jr> and there's little benefit over using the p2p network anyway
637 2011-03-02 02:02:29 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: SSH does it, it's not impossible
638 2011-03-02 02:02:34 <luke-jr> quellhorst: open usually
639 2011-03-02 02:02:48 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: SSH, as used by most people, is insecure.
640 2011-03-02 02:02:57 <Necr0s> ssh uses the fingerprint.
641 2011-03-02 02:03:01 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, DEM HOST CACHES
642 2011-03-02 02:03:04 <Necr0s> Which no one reads or verifies.
643 2011-03-02 02:03:12 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: to securely use SSH, you need to verify the host key is correct the first time you connect
644 2011-03-02 02:03:15 <phantomcircuit> Necr0s, i do :(
645 2011-03-02 02:03:16 <xelister> luke-jr: how is ssh insecure
646 2011-03-02 02:03:17 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: Right
647 2011-03-02 02:03:30 <xelister> you should verify host fingerprint by hand
648 2011-03-02 02:03:39 <phantomcircuit> xelister, most people dont
649 2011-03-02 02:03:43 <Necr0s> Ppl don't.
650 2011-03-02 02:03:45 <xelister> well, winnoobs dont
651 2011-03-02 02:03:45 <Necr0s> even non-nubs.
652 2011-03-02 02:03:45 <phantomcircuit> i pwned my unix admin prof with that
653 2011-03-02 02:03:57 <xelister> phantomcircuit: lol, how did you got in position for mitm?
654 2011-03-02 02:04:04 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: how are your theoretical IP transactions any better than a HTTPS URI that generates an address and redirects to a bitcoin: URI?
655 2011-03-02 02:04:07 <phantomcircuit> xelister, wifi race condition
656 2011-03-02 02:04:13 <xelister> phantomcircuit: yeez
657 2011-03-02 02:04:22 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: I've sugguested that you must supply the connection fingerprint as a preresiquite of starting the connection
658 2011-03-02 02:04:25 <phantomcircuit> xelister, it's pretty easy actually
659 2011-03-02 02:04:39 <phantomcircuit> you just send your packets faster than the remote end can
660 2011-03-02 02:04:43 <phantomcircuit> which is trivial
661 2011-03-02 02:04:46 <phantomcircuit> because you're right there
662 2011-03-02 02:04:49 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: You have to generate that bitcoin: URI
663 2011-03-02 02:04:56 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: so? IP tx do too
664 2011-03-02 02:05:22 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: You have to generate that bitcoin: URI beforehand, without an interactive connection with the client
665 2011-03-02 02:05:23 <phantomcircuit> xelister, was hilarious though
666 2011-03-02 02:05:33 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: no, you don't.
667 2011-03-02 02:05:48 <AAA_awright> With an interactive connection you could negotiate paramaters, interactively, and in the future possibly have additional verification that both clients have the means to pay
668 2011-03-02 02:05:52 <AAA_awright> or whatever
669 2011-03-02 02:05:54 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: you just have a PHP script on the webserver that generates it
670 2011-03-02 02:06:21 <luke-jr> if you want, you can send a HTML page that asks details before redirecting
671 2011-03-02 02:06:22 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: Which is a problem for lots of use cases
672 2011-03-02 02:06:41 <AAA_awright> Again you have to generate the address, and associated private key and all, before you know you're using it
673 2011-03-02 02:06:54 <luke-jr> so?
674 2011-03-02 02:07:01 <luke-jr> JSON-RPC getnewaddress in the PHP script
675 2011-03-02 02:07:10 <AAA_awright> Give at least one second of thought to the problems that poses
676 2011-03-02 02:07:43 <AAA_awright> And still, it's non-interactive
677 2011-03-02 02:08:05 <phantomcircuit> xelister, http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/fakeroute/
678 2011-03-02 02:08:09 <phantomcircuit> xelister, lol
679 2011-03-02 02:08:29 <xelister> heh
680 2011-03-02 02:08:38 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 530000
681 2011-03-02 02:08:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 530000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 5 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, and 7 seconds
682 2011-03-02 02:08:41 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: IP tx is non-interactive, but HTTPS doesn't have to be\
683 2011-03-02 02:08:46 <xelister> WHAT
684 2011-03-02 02:08:48 <xelister> WHAT
685 2011-03-02 02:08:50 <xelister> FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
686 2011-03-02 02:08:59 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 600000
687 2011-03-02 02:09:04 <xelister> ;; bc,gen 600000
688 2011-03-02 02:09:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 4 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes, and 10 seconds
689 2011-03-02 02:09:07 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 10.8561692481 BTC per day and 0.452340385337 BTC per hour.
690 2011-03-02 02:09:07 <xelister> ;; bc,diff
691 2011-03-02 02:09:09 <gribble> 55590.23763914
692 2011-03-02 02:09:12 <quellhorst> ;; bc,calc 624000
693 2011-03-02 02:09:13 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
694 2011-03-02 02:09:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 624000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 4 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes, and 5 seconds
695 2011-03-02 02:09:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111290 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1605 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 27 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59477.93601994
696 2011-03-02 02:09:44 <quellhorst> haha, next difficulty will suck ass
697 2011-03-02 02:09:56 <xelister> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
698 2011-03-02 02:09:57 <quellhorst> will it even be worth the electricity
699 2011-03-02 02:10:17 <ArtForz> wtf are you talking about?
700 2011-03-02 02:10:20 <luke-jr> next diff isn't that much higher
701 2011-03-02 02:10:52 gasteve has joined
702 2011-03-02 02:10:55 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 177000
703 2011-03-02 02:10:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 177000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 56 seconds
704 2011-03-02 02:11:02 <xelister> that it is not even funny
705 2011-03-02 02:11:25 <luke-jr> that's *now*
706 2011-03-02 02:11:31 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 177000 59477
707 2011-03-02 02:11:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 177000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 59477, is 2 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 50 seconds
708 2011-03-02 02:11:38 <luke-jr> next diff only adds 1 more day
709 2011-03-02 02:11:51 <xelister> this difficulty
710 2011-03-02 02:11:55 <gasteve> ;;bc,stats
711 2011-03-02 02:11:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111290 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1605 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59477.93601994
712 2011-03-02 02:12:00 DoomDumas has quit ()
713 2011-03-02 02:12:01 <xelister> this difficulty
714 2011-03-02 02:12:03 <xelister> takes all the dongs ever sucked by Ati devel team
715 2011-03-02 02:12:07 <xelister> and sucks them all at once
716 2011-03-02 02:12:16 <gasteve> and that's a lot of dongs ;)
717 2011-03-02 02:12:20 <xelister> indeed
718 2011-03-02 02:12:22 <[Noodles]> as if lower difficulty would be a good thing
719 2011-03-02 02:12:25 <ArtForz> I like it.
720 2011-03-02 02:12:39 <gasteve> wow...so the estimate is not down to 59k
721 2011-03-02 02:12:44 <gasteve> *now
722 2011-03-02 02:12:56 <Syke> that's like a 10% increase. that's nothing!
723 2011-03-02 02:12:56 <xelister> ArtForz: at what diff mining will stop being profitable for you enough to buy new ASIC
724 2011-03-02 02:12:59 <Blitzboom> what [Noodles] said
725 2011-03-02 02:13:05 <Blitzboom> higher difficulty is healthy
726 2011-03-02 02:13:14 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,tats
727 2011-03-02 02:13:14 <gribble> Error: "bc,tats" is not a valid command.
728 2011-03-02 02:13:15 <gasteve> that's amazing compared to the estimate being reported a few days ago
729 2011-03-02 02:13:18 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
730 2011-03-02 02:13:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111290 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1605 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59477.93601994
731 2011-03-02 02:13:36 <Blitzboom> i mean, higher difficulty is an indicator of a healthy progressing network
732 2011-03-02 02:13:47 <gasteve> (but yeah, higher difficulty should be viewed as a good thing, not bad)
733 2011-03-02 02:13:58 <ArtForz> xelister: diff/$ needs to roughly *2.5 to make asic more interesting than just adding more GPUs
734 2011-03-02 02:14:02 <[Tycho]> Wow, i received second donation ! :)
735 2011-03-02 02:14:10 <da2ce7> the bitcoin price needs to go up lots for the diff to go up heaps again
736 2011-03-02 02:14:10 <ArtForz> so about diff 150k at current market prices
737 2011-03-02 02:14:13 <Blitzboom> congrats
738 2011-03-02 02:14:18 <[Tycho]> 0.02 this time. Someone just loves my work.
739 2011-03-02 02:14:25 <Blitzboom> haha
740 2011-03-02 02:15:04 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
741 2011-03-02 02:15:54 <ArtForz> something fucked up on nollvoid.org statistix again...
742 2011-03-02 02:15:55 <zaroth> hey guys, the linux binary depends on libpng12.so.0 ...
743 2011-03-02 02:16:00 <ArtForz> *nullvoid.org
744 2011-03-02 02:16:12 <zaroth> I had to pull it out from some old fedora .rpm ;-)
745 2011-03-02 02:16:16 <gasteve> I just wish a squirrel could get a nut...been hashing at 610Mhash for a week now and still nut'in
746 2011-03-02 02:16:37 <[Tycho]> gasteve, try pools :)
747 2011-03-02 02:16:55 <gasteve> I know, I know...but somehow just not as satisfying as solo
748 2011-03-02 02:17:21 <[Tycho]> Is your "nut'in" more satisfying ? :)
749 2011-03-02 02:17:52 * da2ce7 thinks it is pritty good to find 50 BTC all on your own
750 2011-03-02 02:18:15 <gasteve> you're right...I think I will try pools...by starting my own ;)
751 2011-03-02 02:18:21 * luke-jr ponders getting some mining rig(s)
752 2011-03-02 02:18:33 <luke-jr> or maybe I should setup a pool
753 2011-03-02 02:18:43 <luke-jr> would anyone join a pool if I set one up with my modified policies?
754 2011-03-02 02:18:49 * [Tycho] got 3.5 times more from pools
755 2011-03-02 02:18:49 <da2ce7> eveyman and his dog has a mining rig now
756 2011-03-02 02:18:52 <TheKid> what are your modified policies?
757 2011-03-02 02:18:59 <gasteve> what's that expression...gambling is a great way to get rich...if you own the casino
758 2011-03-02 02:19:01 <TheKid> 1. must use tonal client?
759 2011-03-02 02:19:25 <[Tycho]> gasteve, yes, so i did it :)
760 2011-03-02 02:19:29 <da2ce7> what is up with all this tonal stuff???
761 2011-03-02 02:19:38 <TheKid> da2ce7: we like to poke fun at him about it ;)
762 2011-03-02 02:19:47 <luke-jr> TheKid: it requires fees on tx, but at a lower rate than the normal client
763 2011-03-02 02:19:55 <gasteve> actually, I had been in slush's pool before I got a GPU
764 2011-03-02 02:19:57 <luke-jr> da2ce7: why do you bring it up?
765 2011-03-02 02:20:03 <luke-jr> oh, TheKid did
766 2011-03-02 02:20:11 <luke-jr> TheKid: no, miners are pretty rep-neutral
767 2011-03-02 02:20:19 <gasteve> but over time, I think solo should pay off better...as long as you have patience
768 2011-03-02 02:20:22 * da2ce7 is confused... why is it inportant for everything to be in base-16?
769 2011-03-02 02:20:35 * da2ce7 thinks that it is uninportnat
770 2011-03-02 02:20:45 <luke-jr> gasteve: solo definitely pays off better
771 2011-03-02 02:20:58 <luke-jr> da2ce7: why is it important for everything to be in decimal?
772 2011-03-02 02:21:30 <Cusipzzz> it is a joke..like a klingon language client. a sideshow.
773 2011-03-02 02:21:31 <gasteve> I think the key for solo is just to have enough hardware that you aren't waiting like 30 days on average for a payout
774 2011-03-02 02:21:33 <da2ce7> luke-jr, it isn't.
775 2011-03-02 02:22:00 <luke-jr> da2ce7: most people use decimal. some use tonal. bitcoin works for both.
776 2011-03-02 02:22:08 <gasteve> but, seeing as I haven't had any payout yet, it's hard for me to be believe what my head is telling me ;)
777 2011-03-02 02:22:13 <luke-jr> gasteve: 10 days with a single Radeon
778 2011-03-02 02:22:15 DoomDumas has joined
779 2011-03-02 02:22:39 sgornick has joined
780 2011-03-02 02:22:42 <gasteve> yeah, I've got a 5970
781 2011-03-02 02:22:45 presence is now known as Greenspan
782 2011-03-02 02:22:58 Greenspan is now known as Presence
783 2011-03-02 02:24:16 * da2ce7 wonders who is going to make the first 'fraud pool'
784 2011-03-02 02:24:22 <gasteve> but for people with only enough hardware to get say 10 btc a month or less, pooling is definitely the way to go
785 2011-03-02 02:24:49 <gasteve> da2ce7: how would a "fraud pool" work?
786 2011-03-02 02:24:57 <luke-jr> gasteve: simply don't payout :p
787 2011-03-02 02:25:11 <gasteve> haha...yeah, that would go over well
788 2011-03-02 02:25:32 <luke-jr> I wonder, if I run a pool, will I lose the performance of self-mining?
789 2011-03-02 02:25:34 <da2ce7> gasteve, say that the fee is 4% but be 10%.
790 2011-03-02 02:25:34 <Blitzboom> for people that would only get 10 BTC/month, i recommend not mining at all :P
791 2011-03-02 02:25:38 <da2ce7> or something like that
792 2011-03-02 02:25:41 <luke-jr> I suppose I could always use another wallet/bitcoind for the poolâ¦
793 2011-03-02 02:25:42 <Blitzboom> waste of electricity
794 2011-03-02 02:25:52 <Blitzboom> better buy the coins directly
795 2011-03-02 02:26:16 <gasteve> yeah
796 2011-03-02 02:26:29 <TheKid> gasteve: solo mining sucks
797 2011-03-02 02:26:31 <gasteve> actually, I think I'll be paying around $100/mo to run that 5970 machine
798 2011-03-02 02:26:32 <TheKid> I've done it quite a bit
799 2011-03-02 02:26:36 <TheKid> waste of time I believe
800 2011-03-02 02:26:39 <da2ce7> just think of all the trashy porn you can buy when you get your BTC
801 2011-03-02 02:26:46 <TheKid> gasteve: that is pretty awful electricity prices
802 2011-03-02 02:26:52 <TheKid> how much do you pay per kw/h?
803 2011-03-02 02:27:41 <gasteve> let me check
804 2011-03-02 02:30:59 <[Tycho]> gasteve, while you waiting for block, difficulty rises and your chances are diminishing :)
805 2011-03-02 02:31:57 <gasteve> looks like $0.40/kwh
806 2011-03-02 02:32:16 <gasteve> how's that compare with others?
807 2011-03-02 02:32:23 <TheKid> that's very high
808 2011-03-02 02:32:25 <TheKid> where do you live?
809 2011-03-02 02:32:26 <Cusipzzz> wow, that is expensive
810 2011-03-02 02:32:42 <ArtForz> whoa
811 2011-03-02 02:32:45 <gasteve> just outside of Altanta, GA
812 2011-03-02 02:32:49 <TheKid> wow
813 2011-03-02 02:32:51 <[Tycho]> $0.02-$0.085
814 2011-03-02 02:32:55 <lfm> thats quite high
815 2011-03-02 02:32:57 <TheKid> yeah, I pay around 15c
816 2011-03-02 02:33:02 <TheKid> per kw/h
817 2011-03-02 02:33:05 <gasteve> where are you guys?
818 2011-03-02 02:33:06 <Cusipzzz> .13-.19 in a lot of places
819 2011-03-02 02:33:15 <[Tycho]> Russia.
820 2011-03-02 02:33:30 <lfm> TheKid: not hw/h it is kwh no /
821 2011-03-02 02:33:30 <[Tycho]> In most places it's cheaper.
822 2011-03-02 02:33:39 <[Tycho]> kW*h
823 2011-03-02 02:33:44 <luke-jr> I pay $15/mo
824 2011-03-02 02:34:16 <gasteve> now, there is a base charge on my bill + an energy charge...there might be some kind of rate levelling....but still, that was based on my total power bill and the total kwh used in that period
825 2011-03-02 02:34:26 <luke-jr> so if I wanted to buy one of those huge cruise ships and make a floating soveirgn nation out of it, would anyone donate? :P
826 2011-03-02 02:34:40 <TheKid> lfm: right, my mistake
827 2011-03-02 02:34:51 <luke-jr> gasteve: I wouldn't use the base charge, since you pay that regardless
828 2011-03-02 02:35:04 <TheKid> luke-jr: maybe
829 2011-03-02 02:35:10 <gasteve> yeah, except the only thing I buy from the company is power
830 2011-03-02 02:35:11 <TheKid> are you an anarcho-capitalist or anarcho-communist?
831 2011-03-02 02:35:12 <TheKid> :P
832 2011-03-02 02:35:34 <luke-jr> TheKid: neither. I am monarchist.
833 2011-03-02 02:35:40 <Blitzboom> haha oh wow
834 2011-03-02 02:35:43 <gasteve> yeah...hmmm...except it shouldn't go up by that rate...let me do another calc
835 2011-03-02 02:36:09 <gwillen> ;;seen ndrix
836 2011-03-02 02:36:09 <gribble> I have not seen ndrix.
837 2011-03-02 02:36:20 <gasteve> lemme look at the bill closer and see if I can figure out how much more they'll charge me for an incremental increase in kw/h
838 2011-03-02 02:37:42 <ArtForz> it's kWh, kW/h doesnt make any sense
839 2011-03-02 02:37:47 <TheKid> luke-jr: I'll have to pass then ;)
840 2011-03-02 02:38:26 <luke-jr> TheKid: aww
841 2011-03-02 02:39:08 <luke-jr> it's amazing how the Faucet is hitting so many TBC values just because of that 0.0001 BTC fee
842 2011-03-02 02:39:46 <Syke> Mine is costing $.39 here in California.
843 2011-03-02 02:40:07 <ArtForz> ouch
844 2011-03-02 02:40:34 <ArtForz> even in .de in summer it's only ~ $0.30
845 2011-03-02 02:40:54 <gasteve> ok...so never mind...after looking closer, my incremental cost is $0.036 / kWh
846 2011-03-02 02:41:00 <luke-jr> lol
847 2011-03-02 02:41:13 <gasteve> which means my bill should go up by just under $10/mo
848 2011-03-02 02:41:24 <gasteve> haha...big difference!
849 2011-03-02 02:41:49 <gasteve> but still...what the hell is that base charge they are charging me...what a rip off
850 2011-03-02 02:42:04 <gasteve> I should run 10 dual 5970 servers
851 2011-03-02 02:42:17 <[Noodles]> why just 10?
852 2011-03-02 02:42:44 <gasteve> ok...next one will be a quad 5970
853 2011-03-02 02:42:53 <gasteve> (been drooling over the pictures of those)
854 2011-03-02 02:43:59 <gasteve> Syke: did I read that correctly? $0.39, not $0.039?
855 2011-03-02 02:44:21 <Syke> I get stiffed on electricity because I have a 2-family house, but a single meter, so I go way over the base levels.
856 2011-03-02 02:44:33 <gasteve> ah
857 2011-03-02 02:44:58 <Syke> the first 300 kwh are $.12
858 2011-03-02 02:45:42 <gasteve> they haven't implemented that high usage penalty in this area yet...maybe when more pot farmers move into the area they will ;)
859 2011-03-02 02:46:30 <gasteve> or more bitcoin miners ...lol
860 2011-03-02 02:46:31 <Syke> so like $5/day in energy for my main miner, that gets 25 coins a day. It's still very profitable.
861 2011-03-02 02:46:52 <TheKid> Syke: charge secondary tenant extra for electricity
862 2011-03-02 02:47:10 <gasteve> Syke: are you pooling? and what hardware setup?
863 2011-03-02 02:47:45 MJD has joined
864 2011-03-02 02:48:09 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
865 2011-03-02 02:49:17 <Syke> 2x5870 in main box, 5870+5770 in second box
866 2011-03-02 02:50:48 <gasteve> and are you in a pool? or solo?
867 2011-03-02 02:51:09 <Necr0s> Looks like my electric costs about $0.114 per kWh.
868 2011-03-02 02:52:01 sethsethseth has joined
869 2011-03-02 02:54:01 <Syke> solo, no sense wasting my coins
870 2011-03-02 03:04:08 MacRohard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
871 2011-03-02 03:15:54 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
872 2011-03-02 03:25:54 AndChat- has joined
873 2011-03-02 03:30:42 <luke-jr> gasteve: base cost is to recoup the wiring infrastructure
874 2011-03-02 03:32:12 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
875 2011-03-02 03:32:32 <gasteve> luke-jr: are you saying that you're including your electrical wiring in your mining costs?
876 2011-03-02 03:33:55 <luke-jr> gasteve: no, that's what the base electricity fee is for
877 2011-03-02 03:35:03 <gasteve> oh, ic what you mean
878 2011-03-02 03:35:26 <gasteve> you're saying the base cost charged by the electric company is to cover their wiring infrastructure
879 2011-03-02 03:35:29 <gasteve> right?
880 2011-03-02 03:35:58 <luke-jr> yes
881 2011-03-02 03:36:40 <gasteve> it's interesting how much more expensive the wiring is than the energy they deliver over that wiring
882 2011-03-02 03:37:29 dissipate has joined
883 2011-03-02 03:39:19 jrabbit has joined
884 2011-03-02 03:39:42 FellowTraveler has joined
885 2011-03-02 03:39:52 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
886 2011-03-02 03:40:20 <gasteve> hola
887 2011-03-02 03:40:48 <luke-jr> gasteve: depends on how much you use ofc
888 2011-03-02 03:41:24 <gasteve> ofc?
889 2011-03-02 03:41:37 <luke-jr> of course
890 2011-03-02 03:43:23 <jrabbit> bah all I got from the cpuminer crash was "segmentation fault"
891 2011-03-02 03:43:29 <jrabbit> nothin useful
892 2011-03-02 03:44:08 <luke-jr> jrabbit: lrn2debug
893 2011-03-02 03:44:19 <luke-jr> but in practice, that sounds like trying to use via on a non-via cpu
894 2011-03-02 03:44:23 <jrabbit> luke-jr: well it ran for a while before crasjing!
895 2011-03-02 03:44:46 <FellowTraveler> Hello, I have written a transaction server that allows the issuance and the untraceable trade of arbitrary digital assets. Specifically I'm using chaumian blinding to make it untraceable. I'm looking for a developer (who maintains a bitcoin client) who might be interested in adding my API to his client. I think this technology might be useful for solving issues of resource allocation on anonymous networks, which is where I'm eventually going wit
896 2011-03-02 03:44:52 <jrabbit> I got a quick crash tryign to use 32 bit asm in a 64 bit build ratehr wuick :P
897 2011-03-02 03:44:57 <jrabbit> I was using 4wat
898 2011-03-02 03:44:59 <jrabbit> *y
899 2011-03-02 03:45:01 <FellowTraveler> If anyone is interested in such discussion, please contact me privately, thanks :)
900 2011-03-02 03:45:28 <jrabbit> in the midterm
901 2011-03-02 03:45:45 <jrabbit> is there a DEAD simple bash way to restart these things
902 2011-03-02 03:46:03 <luke-jr> FellowTraveler: doesn't sound liek something to be integrated in a client
903 2011-03-02 03:46:17 <FellowTraveler> Luke, it is.
904 2011-03-02 03:47:48 <FellowTraveler> luke-jr, FYI clients use the API to do things like issue asset types, open asset accounts, register a public key ("nym"), write and deposit cheques, withdraw and deposit cash or cashier's cheques, trade on markets, etc. Users do all those things, and the API makes it easy for GUI developers (since it does all the work underneath)
905 2011-03-02 03:47:50 <jrabbit> nvm found something
906 2011-03-02 03:49:13 <FellowTraveler> I envision a federated system of these servers providing all the necessary instruments (running on I2P somewhere or whatever, and in multiple jurisdictions), using bitcoin for the backing commodity since it is publicly auditable
907 2011-03-02 03:49:47 legion050 has left ()
908 2011-03-02 03:52:17 <hazek> so did you guys see
909 2011-03-02 03:52:39 <hazek> that topic from a guy that works for various high-street banks, helping them ensure their facilities are not abused by criminals - anyone who would use a bank account as part of the process of making money illegally
910 2011-03-02 03:52:43 <xelister> FellowTraveler: freenet
911 2011-03-02 03:53:14 <hazek> asking questions of how bitcoin work
912 2011-03-02 03:53:21 <xelister> FellowTraveler: bitcoin over freenet - there is idea to write it (we seek funding ;)
913 2011-03-02 03:53:34 <jrabbit> there we go
914 2011-03-02 03:53:45 <jrabbit> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/696839/how-do-i-write-a-bash-script-to-restart-a-process-if-it-dies used a bit of bash
915 2011-03-02 03:55:49 Syke has joined
916 2011-03-02 03:57:12 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
917 2011-03-02 04:06:34 Mango-chan has joined
918 2011-03-02 04:06:34 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
919 2011-03-02 04:06:34 Mango-chan has joined
920 2011-03-02 04:10:15 bitcoiner has joined
921 2011-03-02 04:15:10 <bitcoiner> anyone using mtgox trade api ?
922 2011-03-02 04:20:55 <sethsethseth> what is the deal with that, can it interface with any trading programs?
923 2011-03-02 04:21:33 <doublec> I have an amazing number of search query hits on my website for 'bitcoin unconfirmed' recently
924 2011-03-02 04:21:45 <doublec> sadly hard to monetize that I suspect
925 2011-03-02 04:22:16 <sethsethseth> lol thats rly funny
926 2011-03-02 04:24:34 <phantomcircuit> doublec, run an automated confirmation system for specific tx ids
927 2011-03-02 04:24:55 <sethsethseth> which site is yours?
928 2011-03-02 04:26:07 <ArtForz> hmm, is bitcoin central down?
929 2011-03-02 04:26:30 <jgarzik> ArtForz: bugged, here
930 2011-03-02 04:26:47 <ArtForz> first timed out, now 500 errors
931 2011-03-02 04:27:17 <doublec> sethsethseth: it's not a bitcoin site, just a general blog. But I wrote about bitcoins once so I get search hits: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2010/10/10/a-short-introduction-to-bitcoin.html
932 2011-03-02 04:27:22 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, i bet you could make some BTC selling accelerated inclusion in a block
933 2011-03-02 04:27:43 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: I think thats the general idea of TX fees...
934 2011-03-02 04:28:12 <sethsethseth> whats the deal, people just dont understand where the setting is to pay a tx fee?
935 2011-03-02 04:28:43 validus has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
936 2011-03-02 04:28:44 <phantomcircuit> hmm i just realized that the mainline client has no way to specify tx fee
937 2011-03-02 04:29:00 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it does on command line options
938 2011-03-02 04:29:11 <ArtForz> errr, I thought it does have that option in options...
939 2011-03-02 04:29:14 <phantomcircuit> that's not very useful :|
940 2011-03-02 04:29:25 <tcatm> yes, bitcoin-central is down. 500
941 2011-03-02 04:29:27 EvanR has quit (Disconnected by services)
942 2011-03-02 04:29:29 <phantomcircuit> you'd want to do it for specific transactions
943 2011-03-02 04:29:34 EvanR__ is now known as EvanR
944 2011-03-02 04:29:38 EvanR has quit (Changing host)
945 2011-03-02 04:29:38 EvanR has joined
946 2011-03-02 04:29:38 <phantomcircuit> some you'd want to try and clear free
947 2011-03-02 04:29:43 <EvanR> ;;buy 1 "metal gear solid 4" @ 25 BTC
948 2011-03-02 04:29:43 <gribble> Order id 714 created.
949 2011-03-02 04:29:51 <EvanR> oops
950 2011-03-02 04:29:52 <ArtForz> yeah, doesnt have a per-tx fee option
951 2011-03-02 04:29:59 <phantomcircuit> lol
952 2011-03-02 04:30:58 mmarker has joined
953 2011-03-02 04:31:14 <ArtForz> btw, I agree that "value of inputs" probably shouldnt factor into tx priority
954 2011-03-02 04:32:58 <mmarker> Wow, still working the tx issue?
955 2011-03-02 04:33:06 <ArtForz> well, it kinda cleared itself
956 2011-03-02 04:33:22 <ArtForz> thanks to a block with 780 tx or so...
957 2011-03-02 04:33:32 <mmarker> ;;bc,calcd 25600 1
958 2011-03-02 04:33:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 25600 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 2 minutes and 47 seconds
959 2011-03-02 04:33:59 <mmarker> Ok, fingers crossed.
960 2011-03-02 04:34:13 <ArtForz> but it showed that tx priority ordering needs more work
961 2011-03-02 04:34:36 <jgarzik> the value thing, IIRC, was mainly that people are far less likely to spam using 10000 BTC. and also, faster confirmations for bigger sums encourages use of bitcoin for larger amounts, which is always a good thing for the economy imo
962 2011-03-02 04:34:45 <ArtForz> yep
963 2011-03-02 04:35:11 <ArtForz> it also encourages sending larger amounts per tx -> less block chain size for same volume of currency flow
964 2011-03-02 04:37:21 <ArtForz> so maybe it's not that bad overall
965 2011-03-02 04:37:50 <ArtForz> looks like the huge queue was mostly the faucet running out of confirmed inputs and creating 0/unconfirmed chains
966 2011-03-02 04:37:56 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
967 2011-03-02 04:39:15 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, the faucet was spending unconfirmed btc?
968 2011-03-02 04:39:19 <ArtForz> yes
969 2011-03-02 04:39:48 <phantomcircuit> heh
970 2011-03-02 04:39:54 <mmarker> Well, my ASM spit out output that was identical to the C code
971 2011-03-02 04:40:00 <phantomcircuit> how is the faucet funded?
972 2011-03-02 04:40:03 <mmarker> now doing a firetest on real blocks
973 2011-03-02 04:40:16 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: donations
974 2011-03-02 04:40:22 <ArtForz> when client runs out of confirmed tx, it starts using 0/unconf change-to-self as inputs
975 2011-03-02 04:40:28 <mmarker> and I swear, this is the reason I don't go to vegas
976 2011-03-02 04:40:56 <mmarker> ;;bc,calcd 24900 1
977 2011-03-02 04:40:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 24900 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 2 minutes and 52 seconds
978 2011-03-02 04:41:28 <ArtForz> and it looks like a "unconfirmed tx chain" only makes it into blocks one tx per block
979 2011-03-02 04:42:23 <ArtForz> which actually looks like a reasonable way to cut down tx spam
980 2011-03-02 04:42:31 validus has joined
981 2011-03-02 04:43:25 <gwillen> ArtForz: well, presumably it has to be only one tx per block
982 2011-03-02 04:43:26 <ArtForz> I'll have to check the code, but I *think* a tx with a 0/unconf input always gets a dPriority score of 0
983 2011-03-02 04:43:43 ducki2p has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
984 2011-03-02 04:43:47 <gwillen> because I assume you can't put a tx in a block if the inputs are not already in a block?
985 2011-03-02 04:43:52 <ArtForz> yep
986 2011-03-02 04:44:08 <gwillen> *nods*
987 2011-03-02 04:44:11 <ArtForz> but you can put childern that depend on that tx into the same block
988 2011-03-02 04:44:42 <gwillen> ahh, okay
989 2011-03-02 04:44:45 <gwillen> it just tends not to?
990 2011-03-02 04:45:04 <ArtForz> I have to really check what the code is doing
991 2011-03-02 04:45:08 <jgarzik> well it tries really hard not to spend young coins, to begin with
992 2011-03-02 04:45:17 <ArtForz> yep
993 2011-03-02 04:45:44 <ArtForz> sending client pretty much only does that as a last resort when it doesnt have any confirmed tx to use as inputs left
994 2011-03-02 04:46:32 <ArtForz> only question is, why did a bunch of the pool payouts take so long to get into blocks... also 0-unconf chains?
995 2011-03-02 04:47:30 <tcatm> likely. he has to split generated coins into smaller ones
996 2011-03-02 04:47:43 <phantomcircuit> possibly there should be a trust system, a certain allocation of trust for every block generated?
997 2011-03-02 04:47:47 <ArtForz> imo the observed behaviour for the 0-unconf faucet tx is reasonable
998 2011-03-02 04:47:54 <Lachesis> is there support for sending 50 outputs from 1 input?
999 2011-03-02 04:48:02 <ArtForz> as they really look like tx spam
1000 2011-03-02 04:48:05 * mmarker sighs
1001 2011-03-02 04:48:14 <mmarker> Back to debugging tomorrow
1002 2011-03-02 04:48:17 <ArtForz> Lachesis: currently no, gavin is considering implementing it
1003 2011-03-02 04:48:27 <Lachesis> ArtForz, yeah would be nice for pools
1004 2011-03-02 04:48:29 <luke-jr> Lachesis: for creating them, or for putting them in a block?
1005 2011-03-02 04:48:31 <ArtForz> theres already a post on the dev section on it
1006 2011-03-02 04:48:31 <mmarker> I think it's the 2nd sha256 is being bad.
1007 2011-03-02 04:48:31 <Lachesis> i.e. instead of sending a pool txn, getting back change, then sending another, and so on...
1008 2011-03-02 04:48:39 <ArtForz> yes
1009 2011-03-02 04:48:41 * luke-jr wonders if his miner tolerates such tx
1010 2011-03-02 04:48:52 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, there's support for it in the network protocol afaict
1011 2011-03-02 04:48:57 <luke-jr> ArtForz: I recall someone saying that the original client refuses to put such tx in a block
1012 2011-03-02 04:49:02 <ArtForz> yes
1013 2011-03-02 04:49:07 <Lachesis> phantomcircuit, yeah, but they've blocked it for security fears
1014 2011-03-02 04:49:12 <Lachesis> all non-standard txns don't work right now
1015 2011-03-02 04:49:13 <ArtForz> because they fail the (<= 2 sigops / tx) check
1016 2011-03-02 04:49:39 <ArtForz> pretty much
1017 2011-03-02 04:49:43 <luke-jr> ok
1018 2011-03-02 04:49:47 <luke-jr> my miner accepts non-std
1019 2011-03-02 04:49:50 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, there's a hard limit of 2 sigops/tx?
1020 2011-03-02 04:49:52 <ArtForz> yes
1021 2011-03-02 04:49:55 <mmagic> well, well.. the difficulty estimate graph I've been watching, here: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png just dropped like 100GHash/s..
1022 2011-03-02 04:49:55 <luke-jr> so they should get in
1023 2011-03-02 04:49:56 <phantomcircuit> why not 2 sigops/output?
1024 2011-03-02 04:50:05 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: no clue
1025 2011-03-02 04:50:06 <mmagic> verrrry interesting.
1026 2011-03-02 04:50:34 <ArtForz> mmagic: it's a estimate based on assumption of exponential growth
1027 2011-03-02 04:50:40 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, someones electricity got more expensive? :P
1028 2011-03-02 04:50:54 ducki2p has joined
1029 2011-03-02 04:50:54 <ArtForz> currently looks like hashrate is pretty much not growing at all
1030 2011-03-02 04:51:06 mmarker has quit (Quit: mmarker)
1031 2011-03-02 04:51:13 <ArtForz> so it's simply correcting for the overestimation
1032 2011-03-02 04:51:19 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,ststs
1033 2011-03-02 04:51:19 <gribble> Error: "bc,ststs" is not a valid command.
1034 2011-03-02 04:51:24 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1035 2011-03-02 04:51:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111311 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1584 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 60180.50023119
1036 2011-03-02 04:51:45 <LobsterMan> has diff ever gone down?
1037 2011-03-02 04:51:50 <luke-jr> yes
1038 2011-03-02 04:51:51 <Lachesis> LobsterMan, once
1039 2011-03-02 04:51:56 <Lachesis> went from 12 to 11 :)
1040 2011-03-02 04:52:00 <LobsterMan> lol
1041 2011-03-02 04:52:22 <ArtForz> if (GetSigOpCount() > 2 || nSize < 100)
1042 2011-03-02 04:52:22 <ArtForz> return error("AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction");
1043 2011-03-02 04:52:50 <ArtForz> I guess the pool could just create multi-output tx and put them into its own blocks...
1044 2011-03-02 04:53:11 <luke-jr> ArtForz: or just write the generation to the winners
1045 2011-03-02 04:53:40 <ArtForz> luke-jr: thats kinda... not possible
1046 2011-03-02 04:53:53 <luke-jr> ArtForz: it is possible, someone even does it
1047 2011-03-02 04:54:07 <ArtForz> you dont know the payout distribution before the block is found
1048 2011-03-02 04:54:18 <mmagic> ArtForz: so it is.. i missed that. thanks for the sanity check.
1049 2011-03-02 04:54:37 <gwillen> are nonstandard transactions only rejected by the default client when it's trying to build a block? not if they appear in other people's blocks?
1050 2011-03-02 04:54:43 <ArtForz> yes
1051 2011-03-02 04:54:56 <gwillen> *nods*
1052 2011-03-02 04:55:02 <ArtForz> when they're in a block they're valid
1053 2011-03-02 04:55:08 <ArtForz> standalone they get ignored
1054 2011-03-02 04:55:11 <gwillen> *nodnod*
1055 2011-03-02 04:56:24 <ArtForz> people that request very small pool payouts will still end up with hundreds of tiny tx, but thats what they asked for
1056 2011-03-02 04:56:43 <gwillen> *nods*
1057 2011-03-02 04:56:49 <ArtForz> another benefit, pool payout tx would be a lot smaller
1058 2011-03-02 04:57:14 <ArtForz> inputs are a quite a bit larger than outputs
1059 2011-03-02 04:57:19 <gwillen> mainly I was wondering because any disagreement between different clients over what is a valid block is really dangerous
1060 2011-03-02 04:57:32 <ArtForz> nope, valid block rules are pretty universal
1061 2011-03-02 04:57:40 <gwillen> they better be totally universal ;-)
1062 2011-03-02 04:57:45 <gwillen> othewise you can make the block chain split
1063 2011-03-02 04:57:47 <gwillen> and that would be bad
1064 2011-03-02 04:57:54 <jrabbit> gwillen: its my understanding that they break the entwork
1065 2011-03-02 04:58:01 <gwillen> jrabbit: what do?
1066 2011-03-02 04:58:02 <ArtForz> well, 0.3.8 had different notions of what a valid block was...
1067 2011-03-02 04:58:02 <jrabbit> i.e. a fork
1068 2011-03-02 04:58:19 <ArtForz> the whole "overflow tx" thing
1069 2011-03-02 04:58:20 <gwillen> ArtForz: well, if it's being phased out that is one thing
1070 2011-03-02 04:58:34 <ArtForz> and yes, it obviously caused a chain fork
1071 2011-03-02 04:58:34 <gwillen> what was "overflow tx"?
1072 2011-03-02 04:59:02 <ArtForz> a tx with 2 outputs that when summed overflowed a uint64
1073 2011-03-02 04:59:04 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, if all the inputs added up to more than the 64 bit output could hold
1074 2011-03-02 04:59:07 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, magic
1075 2011-03-02 04:59:10 <phantomcircuit> you're rich
1076 2011-03-02 04:59:17 <phantomcircuit> or the other way around
1077 2011-03-02 04:59:18 <ArtForz> old check was sum(outputs) < sum(inputs)
1078 2011-03-02 04:59:19 <phantomcircuit> whatever
1079 2011-03-02 04:59:21 <gwillen> heh, oops
1080 2011-03-02 04:59:47 <gwillen> of course, there was no incentive for anyone to produce such a txn on purpose
1081 2011-03-02 04:59:56 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, uh yes there is
1082 2011-03-02 05:00:03 <phantomcircuit> inputs < outputs
1083 2011-03-02 05:00:07 <phantomcircuit> == money made
1084 2011-03-02 05:00:29 <ArtForz> except to overflow it you had to create a few billion bitcoin of output
1085 2011-03-02 05:00:38 <ArtForz> which was pretty damn obvious
1086 2011-03-02 05:00:50 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1087 2011-03-02 05:01:05 <gwillen> oh, I see
1088 2011-03-02 05:01:08 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, isn't the new check basically the same, except with an overflow check?
1089 2011-03-02 05:01:09 <ArtForz> so fixing it and simply ignoring anything > 21M btc as invalid was a pretty quick affair
1090 2011-03-02 05:01:10 <gwillen> the client would accept the bad txn
1091 2011-03-02 05:01:14 MacRohard has joined
1092 2011-03-02 05:01:15 <gwillen> and then accept the individual outputs
1093 2011-03-02 05:01:27 <gwillen> thus creating BTC from ntohing
1094 2011-03-02 05:01:39 <jrabbit> magic!
1095 2011-03-02 05:01:57 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: yes, iirc now check for amount < 21M*COIN and theres if (a + b) < a overflow checks
1096 2011-03-02 05:03:21 <ArtForz> 0.3.8 didnt have the checks, 0.3.9 had the checks but couldnt purge the blocks containing invalid tx from the tored block chain, 0.3.10 finally fixed it for good
1097 2011-03-02 05:04:27 <ArtForz> btw, I wonder if the progressive fee schedule for blocks is really needed
1098 2011-03-02 05:04:42 <phantomcircuit> if (txout.nValue < 0)
1099 2011-03-02 05:04:43 <phantomcircuit> wat
1100 2011-03-02 05:05:03 <ArtForz> whoops, int64s, not uint64s :P
1101 2011-03-02 05:05:11 <phantomcircuit> why would it even be able to store negative values?!
1102 2011-03-02 05:05:21 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: oh I forgot I was going to work with your code..
1103 2011-03-02 05:05:38 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, network code appears to be fully functional
1104 2011-03-02 05:05:41 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: I never understood that either
1105 2011-03-02 05:05:44 <phantomcircuit> minus ip trans
1106 2011-03-02 05:05:51 <phantomcircuit> but im not going to implement that
1107 2011-03-02 05:06:52 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, ps the if (txout.nValue > MAX_MONEY) will stop working once multiple outputs is enabled
1108 2011-03-02 05:07:02 <ArtForz> no it wont
1109 2011-03-02 05:07:19 <phantomcircuit> just have a shit ton of txs that overflow
1110 2011-03-02 05:07:24 <phantomcircuit> all 21 million
1111 2011-03-02 05:07:27 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: btw you can jsut define a fucntion with "pass"
1112 2011-03-02 05:07:27 <ArtForz> check GetValueOut in main.h
1113 2011-03-02 05:07:36 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, what?
1114 2011-03-02 05:07:42 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: i.e.
1115 2011-03-02 05:07:46 <jrabbit> def handle_alert(self,p):
1116 2011-03-02 05:07:46 <jrabbit> print("handle_alert")
1117 2011-03-02 05:07:47 <jrabbit> print(p)
1118 2011-03-02 05:07:59 <jrabbit> why do you have this?
1119 2011-03-02 05:08:19 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: check GetValueOut in main.h
1120 2011-03-02 05:08:22 <jrabbit> if it does nothing just do def funct(): pass
1121 2011-03-02 05:08:23 <phantomcircuit> so i can see if i got an alert
1122 2011-03-02 05:08:27 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, yeah i am
1123 2011-03-02 05:08:27 <jrabbit> oh.
1124 2011-03-02 05:08:34 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
1125 2011-03-02 05:08:43 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, all the print statements are just debugging
1126 2011-03-02 05:08:50 <jrabbit> oh I thoguht thwy were place holders
1127 2011-03-02 05:08:52 <phantomcircuit> none of them are actually useful
1128 2011-03-02 05:08:56 <jrabbit> nvm
1129 2011-03-02 05:09:16 <jrabbit> thought you were gonna go in and add stuff there :)
1130 2011-03-02 05:09:26 <jrabbit> oh
1131 2011-03-02 05:09:31 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: actually
1132 2011-03-02 05:09:57 <jrabbit> the big dict of fucntions coudl be reduced to a single dict + print function
1133 2011-03-02 05:10:14 <phantomcircuit> huh
1134 2011-03-02 05:10:20 <jrabbit> I know its jsut debug stuff but it'd be less ugly
1135 2011-03-02 05:10:51 <phantomcircuit> the functions are both placeholders and debugging
1136 2011-03-02 05:10:57 <jrabbit> oh.
1137 2011-03-02 05:11:01 noagendamarket has joined
1138 2011-03-02 05:11:06 FellowTraveler has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1139 2011-03-02 05:11:12 <jrabbit> hmph
1140 2011-03-02 05:11:57 <jrabbit> but yeah you figure out sane lib layout good job :P
1141 2011-03-02 05:12:05 <jrabbit> :)
1142 2011-03-02 05:12:25 <mmagic> New sell: 10 @ $0.9452 per / Del sell: 10 @ $0.9453 per ; I wonder who that is. he's been floating around his little 10 BTC for days..
1143 2011-03-02 05:13:24 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: looks good pythonically mostly interals :P
1144 2011-03-02 05:15:04 keystrike has joined
1145 2011-03-02 05:15:07 <mmagic> huh. mtgox only allows $1k withdrawals per 24 hour period >:-/
1146 2011-03-02 05:16:57 TheKid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1147 2011-03-02 05:17:09 Stan has joined
1148 2011-03-02 05:18:05 <Stan> hi
1149 2011-03-02 05:19:56 <Stan> where can I contribute language translations ?
1150 2011-03-02 05:21:59 Stan has quit (Client Quit)
1151 2011-03-02 05:23:04 <Necr0s> These exchange sites need to get more pro.
1152 2011-03-02 05:24:22 <keystrike> what are the current issues with them Necr0s?
1153 2011-03-02 05:24:51 <Necr0s> Well, that 1k per day limit for example.
1154 2011-03-02 05:25:20 <Necr0s> They should also offer ACH pull and push.
1155 2011-03-02 05:25:31 <jgarzik> 1k is regulatory limit
1156 2011-03-02 05:25:31 <Necr0s> Instead of making you go through LR.
1157 2011-03-02 05:25:40 <jgarzik> going pro means a lot of money and regulation
1158 2011-03-02 05:25:55 <jgarzik> higher fees, for what is currently small volume
1159 2011-03-02 05:26:13 <Necr0s> I doubt you're limited to 1k/day wd on a typical forex trading acct.
1160 2011-03-02 05:26:20 <jgarzik> Necr0s: mtgox permits deposit by wire for amounts > $800
1161 2011-03-02 05:26:31 FellowTraveler has joined
1162 2011-03-02 05:26:52 <Necr0s> And why that limitation of > $800?
1163 2011-03-02 05:27:02 <Diablo-D3> legal shit
1164 2011-03-02 05:27:05 <keystrike> ahh
1165 2011-03-02 05:27:23 <Necr0s> hmf
1166 2011-03-02 05:27:47 <Necr0s> All them encumberences.
1167 2011-03-02 05:27:49 <jgarzik> typical forex trading involves vastly larger sums of money, and numbers of transactions. they are compensated for KYC/AML regulatory hurdles.
1168 2011-03-02 05:27:55 <Necr0s> All tied to the USD side of things.
1169 2011-03-02 05:28:22 <Diablo-D3> general rule: if something mtgox does doesnt make sense, its because of legal shit
1170 2011-03-02 05:29:08 <Necr0s> That's unfortunate 'cuz I think it's a hinderance to more widespread acceptance.
1171 2011-03-02 05:31:27 <keystrike> have there been any code security audits?
1172 2011-03-02 05:31:35 <keystrike> i read about a possible bounty on one of the forums
1173 2011-03-02 05:31:59 <luke-jr> lol
1174 2011-03-02 05:32:02 <jgarzik> it's been one long code security audit since the genesis block through today
1175 2011-03-02 05:32:13 <keystrike> haha yes good point
1176 2011-03-02 05:32:37 <keystrike> however only recently are bitcoins at parity with the dollar
1177 2011-03-02 05:33:04 <keystrike> which greatly increases the incentive of a break i would guess
1178 2011-03-02 05:33:21 <keystrike> forgive me if this topic has been covered in depth - i ran the client for a few weeks in early '09 but haven't checked back until a few days ago
1179 2011-03-02 05:33:34 <nanotube> keystrike: hope you haven't lost your coins :)
1180 2011-03-02 05:33:39 <keystrike> nope ;)
1181 2011-03-02 05:33:56 <keystrike> wish i didnt stop running it but hey, it's still ok :)
1182 2011-03-02 05:34:22 <keystrike> thanks for the free money btw guys
1183 2011-03-02 05:34:23 <nanotube> hehe
1184 2011-03-02 05:34:26 <keystrike> :P
1185 2011-03-02 05:34:27 Joshoph has joined
1186 2011-03-02 05:35:34 <Necr0s> what did your few weeks of cpu mining then yield?
1187 2011-03-02 05:36:16 <Necr0s> ;;calc 3000,1
1188 2011-03-02 05:36:16 <gribble> ...
1189 2011-03-02 05:36:20 Kiba has joined
1190 2011-03-02 05:36:38 <nanotube> ;;bc,calcd 3000 1
1191 2011-03-02 05:36:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 23 minutes and 51 seconds
1192 2011-03-02 05:36:52 <Necr0s> thx
1193 2011-03-02 05:36:57 <nanotube> :)
1194 2011-03-02 05:37:24 <keystrike> i think about 1400 or something
1195 2011-03-02 05:37:43 * Kiba published next week's edition
1196 2011-03-02 05:37:45 <Kiba> err
1197 2011-03-02 05:37:51 <Kiba> this week's The Bitcoin Weekly
1198 2011-03-02 05:39:05 <keystrike> also its possible a flaw would be best leveraged if kept secret
1199 2011-03-02 05:39:07 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1200 2011-03-02 05:39:09 <necrodearia> internal server error at https://www.bitcoin-central.net/
1201 2011-03-02 05:39:11 <necrodearia> whose site is it?
1202 2011-03-02 05:39:12 <keystrike> that makes me a bit paranoid
1203 2011-03-02 05:39:18 <nanotube> necrodearia: davout's
1204 2011-03-02 05:39:26 <necrodearia> at, alredy reported by tcatm
1205 2011-03-02 05:39:33 <necrodearia> s/at/ah/
1206 2011-03-02 05:39:44 <validus> its probably just a simple fix, just needs to be there to do it
1207 2011-03-02 05:39:59 <validus> ive gotten them from other sites and fixed pretty quickly
1208 2011-03-02 05:42:43 mxer has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1209 2011-03-02 05:43:00 saline has joined
1210 2011-03-02 05:46:31 <Kiba> so guys
1211 2011-03-02 05:46:34 <Kiba> weekly.co.nr?
1212 2011-03-02 05:51:16 <phantomcircuit> the most worrying thing about that is that it's on ubuntu....
1213 2011-03-02 05:51:22 <phantomcircuit> who the hell sues ubuntu for a server?!
1214 2011-03-02 05:52:39 <phantomcircuit> s/sues/uses/
1215 2011-03-02 05:54:18 <nanotube> what's wrong with ubuntu on a server?
1216 2011-03-02 05:54:39 <nanotube> server-wise, it's essentially debian, with a few package differences...
1217 2011-03-02 05:56:27 <mmagic> ubuntu server is good.
1218 2011-03-02 05:58:32 <Necr0s> I used ubuntu server on my 2 latest linux servers.
1219 2011-03-02 05:58:35 <Necr0s> It works fine.
1220 2011-03-02 05:59:07 <Necr0s> It's certainly not so retarded as Fedora was when I ditched it.
1221 2011-03-02 06:00:19 <Necr0s> I figured why not go with something that's well known and broadly supported.
1222 2011-03-02 06:00:38 <Necr0s> I'm already somewhat familiar with it from using it on desktops.
1223 2011-03-02 06:04:21 <phantomcircuit> there is at least one php related security issue the ubuntu devs introduced
1224 2011-03-02 06:04:24 <mmagic> i am currently angry at rh/cent/fc
1225 2011-03-02 06:04:27 <phantomcircuit> why not go with debian?
1226 2011-03-02 06:04:40 <mmagic> there is at least one serious ssh security issue debian introduced.
1227 2011-03-02 06:04:59 <phantomcircuit> sure, but that was also in ubuntu
1228 2011-03-02 06:05:09 bd_ has quit (Quit:)
1229 2011-03-02 06:05:22 <mmagic> so?
1230 2011-03-02 06:05:32 <mmagic> we're talking about people introducing security issues. :)
1231 2011-03-02 06:06:33 <mmagic> anyway, i tend to use version-control to fork my own daemon from original upstream source anyway, so those sorts of packaging issues tend not to affect me..
1232 2011-03-02 06:06:54 <phantomcircuit> wat
1233 2011-03-02 06:07:29 <mmagic> php/mysql/apache.. I version them myself and create my own forks with my own mods in them. it's just easier that way..
1234 2011-03-02 06:07:41 <phantomcircuit> lol srsly?
1235 2011-03-02 06:07:44 <phantomcircuit> sounds complicated
1236 2011-03-02 06:08:08 <mmagic> no, i have good version control and that sort of thing is kind of my day job.
1237 2011-03-02 06:08:09 <Necr0s> If you manage a lot of machines or vms I can see that being worth diong.
1238 2011-03-02 06:08:41 <phantomcircuit> if im rolling out a lot of machines or vms im not going to be using ubuntu
1239 2011-03-02 06:08:58 <Necr0s> Well, that's you...
1240 2011-03-02 06:09:22 <Necr0s> Different flavas for different tastes.
1241 2011-03-02 06:09:23 <mmagic> hrm.. does ubuntu have a kind of kickstart thing like rh does? i've never checked.
1242 2011-03-02 06:10:34 <phantomcircuit> kickstart? ew
1243 2011-03-02 06:10:36 <phantomcircuit> disk images
1244 2011-03-02 06:11:19 satamusic has joined
1245 2011-03-02 06:11:46 <mmagic> you have a pretty clear idea of what you think is incorrect, i've noticed. have you considered the possibility that not everyone has the same efficiency tradeoffs you do? :)
1246 2011-03-02 06:12:04 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1247 2011-03-02 06:12:06 <phantomcircuit> hehe
1248 2011-03-02 06:12:18 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, yes i have
1249 2011-03-02 06:13:16 <mmagic> k. cool then. :) how'd the bitcoind audit going? did you find anything else b0rked?
1250 2011-03-02 06:13:33 <phantomcircuit> i stopped looking
1251 2011-03-02 06:13:44 <mmagic> you found one minor and one major right?
1252 2011-03-02 06:13:44 <phantomcircuit> instead i started building my own python client
1253 2011-03-02 06:14:07 <phantomcircuit> i found one major
1254 2011-03-02 06:14:37 <mmagic> i thought you found another minor one but it was kind of a side-effect and not destructively exploitable?
1255 2011-03-02 06:15:03 bd_ has joined
1256 2011-03-02 06:15:06 <mmagic> drat, my memory is like swiss cheese these days. friggin' sleep!
1257 2011-03-02 06:15:28 <phantomcircuit> i found what looked like a minor one
1258 2011-03-02 06:15:34 <phantomcircuit> which turned out to be a major one
1259 2011-03-02 06:16:19 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1260 2011-03-02 06:16:24 <mmagic> o.
1261 2011-03-02 06:17:43 <validus> thats why you dont sleep and just keep working
1262 2011-03-02 06:18:17 <phantomcircuit> LIKE A BOSS
1263 2011-03-02 06:18:26 <mmagic> A SUPERBOSS
1264 2011-03-02 06:18:27 <phantomcircuit> also i have a fully functional network client now
1265 2011-03-02 06:18:29 <validus> lol
1266 2011-03-02 06:18:35 <phantomcircuit> LIKE A BOSS
1267 2011-03-02 06:18:41 <validus> i found with the help of these lil pink things i can go 30 - 50 hours strong
1268 2011-03-02 06:18:51 <phantomcircuit> lol
1269 2011-03-02 06:18:51 <validus> the most ive ever done sober is like 60
1270 2011-03-02 06:18:53 <mmagic> fully functional as in fully participatory including transactions and wallets and stuff?
1271 2011-03-02 06:19:04 <validus> internet breeds insomnia lol
1272 2011-03-02 06:19:06 <mmagic> jesus validus what the hell man.
1273 2011-03-02 06:19:07 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, no just the network portion for now
1274 2011-03-02 06:19:07 x6763 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1275 2011-03-02 06:19:11 <phantomcircuit> psh
1276 2011-03-02 06:19:15 <validus> theres always somethign to do. with something to do who needs sleep
1277 2011-03-02 06:19:17 <phantomcircuit> amateur
1278 2011-03-02 06:19:32 <validus> i have no sense of time for the most part. just daylight or dark
1279 2011-03-02 06:19:34 Kiba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1280 2011-03-02 06:19:37 <phantomcircuit> i went for a full presidents day weekend once
1281 2011-03-02 06:19:45 <phantomcircuit> slept for about 18 hours
1282 2011-03-02 06:19:46 <validus> im still looking for a job i have tons of time
1283 2011-03-02 06:19:46 <mmagic> you know people who work like that tend to die off pretty quick eh?
1284 2011-03-02 06:20:06 <validus> well im doing work for myself and my own projects not the stress of a job and all that mess
1285 2011-03-02 06:20:09 <validus> big difference
1286 2011-03-02 06:20:15 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, im in excellent health
1287 2011-03-02 06:20:25 <mmagic> not you, the guy who stayed up 60 hours.
1288 2011-03-02 06:20:27 <validus> most the time its their super negative attitude that gets the best of them. if you tell yourself your sick eventually you will be
1289 2011-03-02 06:20:32 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, lol i've done that
1290 2011-03-02 06:20:45 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, usually only go 30 though
1291 2011-03-02 06:20:47 <validus> actually last weekend i was up 34
1292 2011-03-02 06:20:54 <validus> i was hurtin but i had things to do lol
1293 2011-03-02 06:21:12 <keystrike> as someone who sees programming as primarily a spectator sport, you guys are pretty impressive
1294 2011-03-02 06:21:26 <validus> i ahvent looked at code in a long while
1295 2011-03-02 06:21:40 x6763 has joined
1296 2011-03-02 06:21:41 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1297 2011-03-02 06:21:47 <validus> im trying to teach myself tcl off of this bot script i had done and mysqltcl with it, its interesting
1298 2011-03-02 06:22:03 <phantomcircuit> tcl makes me want to cry
1299 2011-03-02 06:22:17 <validus> well have no tcl experience have someone write something halfway advanced and then say edit it if you want to change it
1300 2011-03-02 06:22:33 <validus> i actually started out with just gettin the basics and when i todl them what i wanted they said i was insane lol
1301 2011-03-02 06:22:44 molecular has joined
1302 2011-03-02 06:22:54 <validus> well insane for having no experience in it for the task i wanted it to do
1303 2011-03-02 06:22:58 <keystrike> haha
1304 2011-03-02 06:23:09 <mmagic> also, even if you think you're in excellent health, read this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071119130734.htm
1305 2011-03-02 06:23:10 <mmagic> :)
1306 2011-03-02 06:23:19 <validus> i dont read news. news is negative crapt
1307 2011-03-02 06:23:32 <validus> if its something positive it gets 10 secs. if its negative it gets 10 mins
1308 2011-03-02 06:23:34 <gwillen> mmagic: yeah, this is something I keep seeing, it is pretty worrying
1309 2011-03-02 06:23:44 <gwillen> mmagic: since I spend most of my day sitting, as do I suspect most people here
1310 2011-03-02 06:23:58 <mmagic> yeah freaks the heck outta me
1311 2011-03-02 06:23:59 <validus> if you stay active you'll be fine
1312 2011-03-02 06:24:14 <validus> im prob one of the most in shape smokers you could meet
1313 2011-03-02 06:24:19 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, shocker people who sit all the time die more often
1314 2011-03-02 06:24:21 <mmagic> gotta get up every couple of hours and wander around. grab a coke zero.
1315 2011-03-02 06:24:26 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, im actually standing right now
1316 2011-03-02 06:24:29 <phantomcircuit> like a boss
1317 2011-03-02 06:24:32 <keystrike> i only study financial markets rather than read news... they tend to be a bit more data rich :)
1318 2011-03-02 06:24:33 <validus> bleh soda
1319 2011-03-02 06:24:35 <mmagic> A SUPERBOXX
1320 2011-03-02 06:24:39 <validus> sweet tea and beer
1321 2011-03-02 06:24:42 <validus> hehe
1322 2011-03-02 06:24:48 <mmagic> sweet tea? what's that?
1323 2011-03-02 06:25:03 <validus> when you boil the tea you add sugar before you pour in the hot tea
1324 2011-03-02 06:25:11 <gwillen> aparently it is a southern thing
1325 2011-03-02 06:25:12 <validus> it dissolves. cup or so for every gallon
1326 2011-03-02 06:25:20 <gwillen> I have been told it is a crime that I've never had it ;-)
1327 2011-03-02 06:25:27 <validus> i usually eye ball it
1328 2011-03-02 06:25:31 <mmagic> huh! well I guess I gotta try it now.
1329 2011-03-02 06:25:36 <validus> gwillen: its great
1330 2011-03-02 06:25:43 <validus> thats all i drink is tea and juice
1331 2011-03-02 06:25:49 <validus> cept for beer
1332 2011-03-02 06:26:08 <validus> well now anyways when i was in sales i used to drink about 7 rockstar's or nos's a day
1333 2011-03-02 06:26:15 <mmagic> well, they say boiling the water for tea is one of the reasons humans pre-public sanitation managed to survive as well as they did. :)
1334 2011-03-02 06:26:31 <phantomcircuit> hmm i should probably also parse the scripts out of op codes
1335 2011-03-02 06:26:52 <validus> now i gotta quit being lazy and go back to workin out again
1336 2011-03-02 06:27:07 <validus> im tellin ya 110%. perfect pushup will tear you apart
1337 2011-03-02 06:27:17 <validus> and i hate informercials and promoted crapt like that
1338 2011-03-02 06:27:18 <validus> hehe
1339 2011-03-02 06:27:26 <mmagic> tea in china, beer/mead in europe, milk in africa (and mongolia for that matter)
1340 2011-03-02 06:27:38 <validus> ive had euro tea and coffee, its good
1341 2011-03-02 06:27:41 <validus> very strong
1342 2011-03-02 06:28:08 <validus> oh ya coffee. i love coffee to and not that iced or flavored crapt
1343 2011-03-02 06:28:12 <mmagic> all avoided bad water sanitation problems..
1344 2011-03-02 06:28:15 <keystrike> yum coffee
1345 2011-03-02 06:28:19 <mmagic> dude. I make the best coffee there is.
1346 2011-03-02 06:28:21 <keystrike> i wish i could drink some right now
1347 2011-03-02 06:28:25 <mmagic> LIKE A BOSS
1348 2011-03-02 06:28:30 <validus> only thing coffee should have thats flavor in it is baileys irish creme
1349 2011-03-02 06:28:39 <validus> if its good coffee it needs no cream or sugar
1350 2011-03-02 06:28:43 <Mango-chan> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/01/what-every-entrepreneur-could-learn-from-justin-bieber/
1351 2011-03-02 06:29:27 <mmagic> I buy my own green beans, roast them, hand-grind them, and columbian press them. my coffee IS DA BEST.
1352 2011-03-02 06:29:45 <validus> nice
1353 2011-03-02 06:29:47 <keystrike> wow nice man
1354 2011-03-02 06:29:51 <keystrike> even im not that hardcore
1355 2011-03-02 06:30:01 <keystrike> now i might have to try that :)
1356 2011-03-02 06:30:06 <validus> if i had the patience and room todo it and not in this apt i prob would
1357 2011-03-02 06:30:09 <mmagic> actually it's really easy. like 10 minutes of your time every 5 days or so.
1358 2011-03-02 06:30:23 <mmagic> you can roast them in a $12 popper from walmart.
1359 2011-03-02 06:30:33 <validus> i met a guy that put his in the oven to dry them out
1360 2011-03-02 06:30:46 <mmagic> just the grinder itself can be expensive, and you can't cheap out on that.
1361 2011-03-02 06:30:50 <validus> ive only met maybe 2 people in my life that did their own coffee
1362 2011-03-02 06:30:54 Xunie has quit (Quit: "You did become a terrorist when they sent her to your town." said Ange. "So I did," I said)
1363 2011-03-02 06:30:59 <mmagic> 3 now! nice to meet you!
1364 2011-03-02 06:31:02 <validus> no more expensive probably than espresso machines going for 150 - 400
1365 2011-03-02 06:31:14 Xunie has joined
1366 2011-03-02 06:31:15 <validus> cept i got mine free lol
1367 2011-03-02 06:31:19 <mmagic> a good hand grinder will run about $150
1368 2011-03-02 06:31:48 <keystrike> ya i have a good grinder cause i get beans
1369 2011-03-02 06:31:51 <keystrike> but i never roasted
1370 2011-03-02 06:31:54 <keystrike> didnt know it was that easy
1371 2011-03-02 06:31:56 <mmagic> zassenhaus, or peugeot freres. the latter have lifetime guarantees. my parents still have the one my grandfather had in the 20s.
1372 2011-03-02 06:32:08 <mmagic> er.. sorry 40s.
1373 2011-03-02 06:32:09 <keystrike> wow
1374 2011-03-02 06:32:24 <validus> going cheap on a grinder is like going cheap on a power supply
1375 2011-03-02 06:32:27 <validus> you just dont do it
1376 2011-03-02 06:32:41 <mmagic> you can find out pretty much everything you need to know here, and also order there too: http://www.sweetmarias.com/
1377 2011-03-02 06:32:45 rcsheets has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1378 2011-03-02 06:33:21 <mmagic> they go a bit further than I do and use PID controlled heaters and make their own machines and so on, but there's a little for everyone there.
1379 2011-03-02 06:33:32 Xunie has quit (Client Quit)
1380 2011-03-02 06:33:50 Xunie has joined
1381 2011-03-02 06:35:13 <keystrike> so will bitcoin ever cloak itself as http traffic?
1382 2011-03-02 06:35:51 <mmagic> and i'd just like to apologise now.. if you get into it, and you find in about 2 years that you're tracking down where the hell the rancid oils came from, and you're obsessively cleaning every little tiny stupid little mechanism and cursing out the universe.. well, I'm sorry.
1383 2011-03-02 06:36:53 <keystrike> hahaha mmagic
1384 2011-03-02 06:37:09 <mmagic> :-)
1385 2011-03-02 06:37:25 hwolf has quit (Changing host)
1386 2011-03-02 06:37:25 hwolf has joined
1387 2011-03-02 06:38:10 <Necr0s> cloak as dns traffic
1388 2011-03-02 06:42:57 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1389 2011-03-02 06:42:59 <keystrike> haha yes
1390 2011-03-02 06:43:01 <keystrike> even better
1391 2011-03-02 06:53:40 FreeMoney has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1392 2011-03-02 06:55:23 necrodearia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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1407 2011-03-02 08:01:08 <Sahtor> Most recent wiki edit was a affil link to adult site. possibly spam
1408 2011-03-02 08:01:44 <discHead> Only possibly? :)
1409 2011-03-02 08:01:58 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1410 2011-03-02 08:02:00 <Sahtor> you never know with new currency :)
1411 2011-03-02 08:03:00 <validus> there was someone doing a porn site i heard
1412 2011-03-02 08:03:01 <validus> or wanting to
1413 2011-03-02 08:03:15 <discHead> There already is a porn site taking Bitcoin, I think
1414 2011-03-02 08:03:53 <validus> theres quite qa few on the wiki
1415 2011-03-02 08:04:01 <validus> i doubt most are spam, should click before say spam
1416 2011-03-02 08:04:15 <validus> didnt say they were good though hehe
1417 2011-03-02 08:09:46 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1418 2011-03-02 08:09:54 <OneFixt> --> http://www.bitpenny.com/index2.php Bitpenny upgrade is open to the public for testing! (no guarantees) please help to stress test it
1419 2011-03-02 08:13:32 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
1420 2011-03-02 08:13:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111329 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1566 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59543.90350755
1421 2011-03-02 08:18:09 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1422 2011-03-02 08:24:55 mekel has joined
1423 2011-03-02 08:26:02 <mekel> so my computer keeps randomly shutting off.. however the video card will remain on, and the fans will start blowing harder than ive ever heard.. what do u guys think it is
1424 2011-03-02 08:26:03 <mekel> psu?
1425 2011-03-02 08:26:40 <mekel> or am i possibly givin the vid card too much load? its hitting 84 celcius
1426 2011-03-02 08:27:05 <[Tycho]> GPU overheating should not cause shutdowns.
1427 2011-03-02 08:27:08 <OneFixt> mekel: check cpu temps
1428 2011-03-02 08:27:16 <[Tycho]> You better keep it under 80
1429 2011-03-02 08:27:56 <mekel> rly?
1430 2011-03-02 08:28:02 <mekel> cpu temps are regular
1431 2011-03-02 08:28:04 <mekel> not above 50 C
1432 2011-03-02 08:28:32 <ArtForz> if thats a ATI card, they run at 100% fan after power cycling until the BIOS inits them
1433 2011-03-02 08:28:41 <mekel> it is
1434 2011-03-02 08:28:47 <mekel> ati hd 6950
1435 2011-03-02 08:29:16 <ArtForz> I've seen that behaviour a few times, usually shortly before the PSU croaks
1436 2011-03-02 08:29:25 <mekel> thats what i am thinking
1437 2011-03-02 08:30:04 RazielZ has joined
1438 2011-03-02 08:30:06 <mekel> i also should note im running dual psus
1439 2011-03-02 08:30:15 <ArtForz> wha? for a 6950 ?
1440 2011-03-02 08:30:28 <mekel> i just got a 400w psu dedicated to the 6950
1441 2011-03-02 08:30:35 <mekel> and then a 250 for the pc
1442 2011-03-02 08:30:41 <ArtForz> ugh
1443 2011-03-02 08:30:51 <mekel> lol
1444 2011-03-02 08:31:35 <mekel> what temp are u guys avging
1445 2011-03-02 08:31:37 <mekel> on ur gpus
1446 2011-03-02 08:32:09 <ArtForz> currently ... 77°C
1447 2011-03-02 08:32:34 <ArtForz> with fans between 40 and 54%
1448 2011-03-02 08:32:35 molecular has joined
1449 2011-03-02 08:32:36 <mekel> im going between 78-80 with -f set to 15
1450 2011-03-02 08:32:54 <mekel> sad becuz i am losing out on 40,000 khashes
1451 2011-03-02 08:33:03 <mekel> even tho my card can hash them
1452 2011-03-02 08:33:04 <ArtForz> but then I have a pretty crazy setup
1453 2011-03-02 08:33:16 <mekel> lol
1454 2011-03-02 08:33:18 <mekel> what u runnin
1455 2011-03-02 08:33:26 <mekel> whats ur gpu load at art
1456 2011-03-02 08:33:43 <ArtForz> 99%
1457 2011-03-02 08:33:48 <mekel> werd
1458 2011-03-02 08:33:51 <mekel> -f set to 1?
1459 2011-03-02 08:34:04 <ArtForz> yup
1460 2011-03-02 08:34:16 <mekel> i suppose if i get slightly more efficient cooling+ a new psu
1461 2011-03-02 08:34:23 <mekel> i will go back to -f 1
1462 2011-03-02 08:35:12 <ArtForz> a *decent* 500W PSU should be fine for a single 6950
1463 2011-03-02 08:35:28 AmpEater has joined
1464 2011-03-02 08:35:38 <validus> empasis on decent
1465 2011-03-02 08:35:39 <mekel> yeah
1466 2011-03-02 08:35:42 <validus> emphasis*
1467 2011-03-02 08:35:42 <mekel> yes lol
1468 2011-03-02 08:35:45 <mekel> its like
1469 2011-03-02 08:35:51 <mekel> an orion240 or somethn
1470 2011-03-02 08:35:53 <ArtForz> yeah, as in "not a $20 chinese firecracker"
1471 2011-03-02 08:36:19 <mekel> i thot 400 watts completely dedicated to the card would be no biggie
1472 2011-03-02 08:36:20 <mekel> wrrrronnng
1473 2011-03-02 08:36:44 <ArtForz> well, if its really a 400W, it would probably work ;)
1474 2011-03-02 08:36:59 <mekel> lol
1475 2011-03-02 08:37:01 <mekel> tru
1476 2011-03-02 08:37:10 <mekel> i wonder if its failing or just underpowered
1477 2011-03-02 08:37:17 <mekel> it really does only fail under huge load
1478 2011-03-02 08:37:34 <mekel> the psu fails i mean*
1479 2011-03-02 08:37:35 <ArtForz> probably a cheap group-regulated design, whats its +12V output ampere rating?
1480 2011-03-02 08:37:46 <mekel> one sec
1481 2011-03-02 08:38:20 <mekel> 17a
1482 2011-03-02 08:38:38 <ArtForz> thats... 200W
1483 2011-03-02 08:38:48 <mekel> lmao o_o
1484 2011-03-02 08:38:55 <ArtForz> sounds like a old P4-era PSU design
1485 2011-03-02 08:39:07 <mekel> poor graphics card
1486 2011-03-02 08:39:24 <mekel> he is hugnry for power
1487 2011-03-02 08:39:28 <validus> you should see the amp rating for the video card
1488 2011-03-02 08:39:37 <validus> then maybe unplugging some other things might help but i doubt it
1489 2011-03-02 08:39:45 <mekel> well like
1490 2011-03-02 08:39:45 <ArtForz> do you have any load on +5V on the 2nd PSU?
1491 2011-03-02 08:40:26 <mekel> nto sure
1492 2011-03-02 08:40:34 <mekel> just got the mobo + hard drive + dvd drive
1493 2011-03-02 08:40:39 <mekel> on the 2nd psu
1494 2011-03-02 08:41:00 <ArtForz> ?
1495 2011-03-02 08:41:14 <mekel> o_O
1496 2011-03-02 08:41:44 <ArtForz> so you have mobo + dvd + hd on 250W, graphics card 6 pin plugs on 450W?
1497 2011-03-02 08:41:51 <mekel> negative
1498 2011-03-02 08:41:55 <mekel> oh wait
1499 2011-03-02 08:42:01 <mekel> yes
1500 2011-03-02 08:42:13 <ArtForz> s/450W/400
1501 2011-03-02 08:42:18 <ArtForz> hmmm
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1505 2011-03-02 08:43:00 <ArtForz> yeah, thats kinda bad
1506 2011-03-02 08:43:13 <mekel> y
1507 2011-03-02 08:43:25 <ArtForz> 2nd PSU has no load on +5V or +3.3V
1508 2011-03-02 08:43:43 <mekel> hmm
1509 2011-03-02 08:43:50 <mekel> that hurts it?
1510 2011-03-02 08:43:53 <ArtForz> which with a group-regulated design usually means the heavily loaded +12V line is way under spec voltage
1511 2011-03-02 08:44:31 <mekel> hm
1512 2011-03-02 08:46:22 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1513 2011-03-02 08:46:23 <mekel> i didnt know that would effect anything
1514 2011-03-02 08:46:39 discHead has quit (Quit:)
1515 2011-03-02 08:47:24 <mekel> bitcoin.cz mining pool failing for anybody else right now?
1516 2011-03-02 08:47:42 <validus> could just be a reboot as slush just quit
1517 2011-03-02 08:47:48 <validus> give it a second
1518 2011-03-02 08:48:52 <mekel> there she goes
1519 2011-03-02 08:48:56 larsig has joined
1520 2011-03-02 08:49:16 <mekel> oop baak down again lol
1521 2011-03-02 08:49:53 <ArtForz> ghps numbers are jumping around quite a bit, guess one of the worker servers hiccuped
1522 2011-03-02 08:55:09 <mekel> irl sad facem hope it isnt down long
1523 2011-03-02 08:56:06 <JFK911> you can use a car battery for 12v, just add a couple diodes to drop the voltage
1524 2011-03-02 08:56:47 <ArtForz> or just get a industrial 3.5kW 12V supply and run a couple PCs off it ;)
1525 2011-03-02 08:57:07 <mekel> well
1526 2011-03-02 08:57:09 <ArtForz> and yes, I actually considered doing that for my 5970 rigs
1527 2011-03-02 08:57:12 <mekel> i hav this gas powered generator..
1528 2011-03-02 08:58:22 <JFK911> yeah hm i dont know about cheap switchers but my astron supply is 13.8v like a car
1529 2011-03-02 08:58:39 <JFK911> p sure the cards have regulation on them anyway
1530 2011-03-02 08:58:45 <ArtForz> yup
1531 2011-03-02 08:58:52 <JFK911> probably nothing on them is using raw 12v
1532 2011-03-02 08:59:11 <JFK911> id be laughing if there was 5v stuff on them
1533 2011-03-02 08:59:16 <JFK911> oh the fan's 12v
1534 2011-03-02 08:59:17 <ArtForz> well, the FET drives of the step-down switchers are ;)
1535 2011-03-02 08:59:23 <ArtForz> and the fan, right
1536 2011-03-02 09:02:37 <ArtForz> and btw, the regulation/ripple/noise on these industrial 12V PSUs is usually quite a bit better than what ATX requires, and they're usually quite efficient
1537 2011-03-02 09:02:55 <JFK911> of course, astron is a huge transformer, no switcher
1538 2011-03-02 09:03:16 <ArtForz> who still uses line freq transformers nowadays?
1539 2011-03-02 09:03:17 <JFK911> but you have to warm it up & readjust the output voltage periodically :)
1540 2011-03-02 09:03:22 * JFK911
1541 2011-03-02 09:03:53 <JFK911> your pirate FM broadcaster will sound horrible if you try using computer supplies ;)
1542 2011-03-02 09:04:27 mekel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1543 2011-03-02 09:04:45 <ArtForz> in that case you forgot the output filtering
1544 2011-03-02 09:05:28 <ArtForz> and filtering out the 50-100kHz ripple from a switcher with a LC is way easier than trying to get rid of 60Hz hum
1545 2011-03-02 09:06:06 <purpleposeidon> What's with this payment-to-transfer thing? Where does the money go?
1546 2011-03-02 09:06:44 <ArtForz> another bonus if you're designing the switcher yourself, you can easily use multiple transformers phase-shifted to pretty much cut ripple to 1/10th or so
1547 2011-03-02 09:06:45 <JFK911> switching psu make much more problems than ripple. they give off all kinds of nasty emi and lots of harmonics
1548 2011-03-02 09:07:03 <ArtForz> harmonics of what?
1549 2011-03-02 09:07:16 <JFK911> the switching
1550 2011-03-02 09:07:17 <ArtForz> of the switching freq? again, a simple LC takes care of that.
1551 2011-03-02 09:07:34 <JFK911> maybe for common mode but what about the emissions into the ether
1552 2011-03-02 09:07:42 <ArtForz> and for EMI, you ut the damn thing in a metal enclsure *with* the input/output filters
1553 2011-03-02 09:08:10 <ArtForz> ofc that still leaves you with magnetic fields from the main transformer
1554 2011-03-02 09:08:34 <ArtForz> either put it in a mu-metal box or keep it away from sensitive circuits that like to act as magentic pickup coils
1555 2011-03-02 09:08:49 <JFK911> still never seen a switching psu used to drive a power amplifier in professional practice
1556 2011-03-02 09:09:07 <JFK911> seen ham stores selling them
1557 2011-03-02 09:09:08 <ArtForz> RF or AF?
1558 2011-03-02 09:09:11 <JFK911> RF
1559 2011-03-02 09:09:29 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1560 2011-03-02 09:09:33 <ArtForz> well, really depends on power levels involved
1561 2011-03-02 09:09:54 <ArtForz> and ofc theres CRAPLOADS of poorly designed switchers
1562 2011-03-02 09:10:19 <ArtForz> while it's kinda hard to build a really bad mains freq xformer
1563 2011-03-02 09:10:27 <JFK911> im trying to think of an instance where i saw a switching psu inside some smaller equipment
1564 2011-03-02 09:11:26 <ArtForz> just put bridge rectifier, metric assload of capacitance and a huge LC on the output to reduce line freq hum
1565 2011-03-02 09:12:25 <FellowTraveler> seeking a developer who maintains a bitcoin client. Looking to get my digital cash API added to a bitcoin client in order to enable untraceable digital cash for bitcoins.
1566 2011-03-02 09:12:34 <ArtForz> theres switchers inside equipment working on uV levels, just a matter of properly designing stuff
1567 2011-03-02 09:12:41 <FellowTraveler> Any developers interested, contact me and I'll give you API info, use cases, and any support you need.
1568 2011-03-02 09:12:59 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1569 2011-03-02 09:13:20 <JFK911> we had these blade like shelves for processing equipment and they had switchers but they were pretty large (and well shielded)
1570 2011-03-02 09:13:56 <ArtForz> *shrug* momentum is also a huge part of it
1571 2011-03-02 09:14:52 <JFK911> 1ru box isnt really pushing every designer for space. but small switching supplies have gotten really cheap
1572 2011-03-02 09:16:38 <JFK911> the processors and modulators that went in those shelves were also heavily shielded, which was impressive even for the environment. like 3mm die cast
1573 2011-03-02 09:25:22 TD has joined
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1583 2011-03-02 10:28:51 towerX is now known as tower
1584 2011-03-02 10:45:56 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1585 2011-03-02 10:50:11 ducki2p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1590 2011-03-02 11:01:09 <molecular> ;;bc,prob 666666 1w
1591 2011-03-02 11:01:18 <gribble> 0.815247049649
1592 2011-03-02 11:01:24 <molecular> ;;bc,prob 666666 3d
1593 2011-03-02 11:01:27 <gribble> 0.515066685219
1594 2011-03-02 11:01:32 <molecular> ;;bc,prob 666666 4d
1595 2011-03-02 11:01:36 <gribble> 0.619013697925
1596 2011-03-02 11:01:36 tower is now known as towerX
1597 2011-03-02 11:04:30 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1598 2011-03-02 11:05:44 <molecular> ;;bc,prob 666666 1d
1599 2011-03-02 11:05:45 <gribble> 0.214353210096
1600 2011-03-02 11:13:07 <magnetron> ;;help bc,prob
1601 2011-03-02 11:13:07 <gribble> (bc,prob <an alias, at least 1 argument>) -- Alias for "math calc 1-exp(-$1*1000 * [seconds $*] / (2**32* [bc,diff]))".
1602 2011-03-02 11:17:10 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
1603 2011-03-02 11:17:10 <gribble> 111356
1604 2011-03-02 11:29:08 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 4500
1605 2011-03-02 11:29:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4500 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 0.0814212693607 BTC per day and 0.00339255289003 BTC per hour.
1606 2011-03-02 11:31:00 <RBecker> ;;bc,stat
1607 2011-03-02 11:31:01 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
1608 2011-03-02 11:31:06 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
1609 2011-03-02 11:31:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111361 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1534 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 56 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 60874.82828511
1610 2011-03-02 11:34:15 legion0501 has joined
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1613 2011-03-02 11:40:14 legion0501 has joined
1614 2011-03-02 11:43:50 <molecular> hey ArtForz, catch a little sleep yesterday?
1615 2011-03-02 11:46:26 <molecular> was the backlog issue resolved (for now) by the faucet paying 0.0001 fee? did I catch that correctly?
1616 2011-03-02 11:46:44 satamusic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1617 2011-03-02 11:46:59 genjix has joined
1618 2011-03-02 11:47:15 <genjix> jgarzik: hey what happened to all the exchanges on bitcoinwatch?
1619 2011-03-02 11:47:36 <genjix> and why does it say "1 US dollar is worth 2.16 BTC" when bid/ask on mtgox is ~0.9
1620 2011-03-02 11:47:40 <genjix> is that a bug?
1621 2011-03-02 11:48:34 <molecular> "1 gram of gold is worth 10000000.00 BTC." doesn't seem right, either, does it?
1622 2011-03-02 11:48:50 <validus> thats 1 gram?
1623 2011-03-02 11:48:51 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 5700000
1624 2011-03-02 11:48:52 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 103.133607857 BTC per day and 4.2972336607 BTC per hour.
1625 2011-03-02 11:49:00 <validus> 1 oz of gold costs 1430 usd
1626 2011-03-02 11:49:01 <molecular> yeah, 1 gram
1627 2011-03-02 11:49:12 <validus> 1 gram is around 40 or 50
1628 2011-03-02 11:49:32 <validus> http://www.goldprice.org/gold-price.html
1629 2011-03-02 11:49:33 <molecular> 1 gram = 0.0352739619 ounces
1630 2011-03-02 11:49:43 * genjix pokes jgarzik
1631 2011-03-02 11:49:46 <molecular> yeah, seems like the exchange value is missing
1632 2011-03-02 11:49:48 <validus> 46.11 usd for 1 gram
1633 2011-03-02 11:50:22 <molecular> 1 gram should cost about 50 BTC or so
1634 2011-03-02 11:50:52 <validus> im sure they've recieved numerous emails of ppl going wtf
1635 2011-03-02 11:50:55 <validus> or i would assume so
1636 2011-03-02 11:51:48 <genjix> its owned by jgarzik
1637 2011-03-02 11:52:42 <validus> could be a simple script error also
1638 2011-03-02 11:52:48 <validus> or maybe thats what he really selling it for
1639 2011-03-02 11:53:09 Ratchet has joined
1640 2011-03-02 11:53:33 <molecular> http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/ is back up
1641 2011-03-02 11:55:08 <andrewh> are we allowed to bump threads on the forum?
1642 2011-03-02 11:55:26 <andrewh> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3934.0
1643 2011-03-02 11:55:40 <bitbot> Selling Mac software timed out
1644 2011-03-02 11:55:46 <andrewh> heh
1645 2011-03-02 11:57:46 <RBecker> damnit, I need a mac
1646 2011-03-02 11:57:46 <RBecker> :P
1647 2011-03-02 11:57:53 <validus> why
1648 2011-03-02 11:58:08 <RBecker> because, they're awesome
1649 2011-03-02 11:58:10 <validus> do you make commercials? do prof video editing? if the answer is no
1650 2011-03-02 11:58:12 <validus> then you do not
1651 2011-03-02 11:58:24 <RBecker> Does if matter if I do that stuff? No.
1652 2011-03-02 11:58:34 <RBecker> ask andrewh here
1653 2011-03-02 12:00:04 <genjix> RBecker: buy madhatters mac
1654 2011-03-02 12:00:11 <genjix> or pmw ibooks
1655 2011-03-02 12:00:32 rli has joined
1656 2011-03-02 12:00:37 <genjix> pwmhh
1657 2011-03-02 12:00:40 <RBecker> .
1658 2011-03-02 12:00:48 <genjix> they're selling a bunch of them
1659 2011-03-02 12:00:51 <RBecker> oh god someone I hate is in here
1660 2011-03-02 12:01:33 <validus> not on irc. that never happens
1661 2011-03-02 12:01:50 <RBecker> oh yes
1662 2011-03-02 12:03:18 <RBecker> k i must leave
1663 2011-03-02 12:04:34 <validus> ./ignore works just as well
1664 2011-03-02 12:04:50 <RBecker> he hasn't said anything to me in a while
1665 2011-03-02 12:04:54 <RBecker> so
1666 2011-03-02 12:04:56 <RBecker> yeah
1667 2011-03-02 12:05:14 <RBecker> anyways bye
1668 2011-03-02 12:09:54 rcsheets has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1669 2011-03-02 12:14:34 <andrewh> heh
1670 2011-03-02 12:14:37 <dsg> A disagreement? On IRC? Well I never.
1671 2011-03-02 12:16:14 <andrewh> :3
1672 2011-03-02 12:20:52 sabalaba has joined
1673 2011-03-02 12:22:18 <validus> comments i see never seem to stop amazing me
1674 2011-03-02 12:22:19 <validus> lol
1675 2011-03-02 12:27:24 Lis has joined
1676 2011-03-02 12:35:15 <Diablo-D3> http://jsonip.com/
1677 2011-03-02 12:35:16 <Diablo-D3> lol
1678 2011-03-02 12:35:38 <magnetron> molecular: gold isn't traded in US customary ounces
1679 2011-03-02 12:36:05 <magnetron> there's like various definitions of ounce, and they're all incompatible
1680 2011-03-02 12:36:18 <molecular> ok. still 1 gram == 10000000.00 BTC is off a little ;)
1681 2011-03-02 12:36:35 <molecular> no matter what kind of ounce we're talking for a gram of gold
1682 2011-03-02 12:36:35 <eps> this is why most of the developed world uses metric ;)
1683 2011-03-02 12:37:57 <magnetron> eps: most nations used to have their own definition of feet, inch, stick, stone etc etc. they just had different definitions of them :D just like the US units and Imperial units are incompatible
1684 2011-03-02 12:38:07 FellowTraveler has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1685 2011-03-02 12:38:38 <magnetron> eps: this problem is excerberated with the majority of americans being unaware that they don't use Imperial units
1686 2011-03-02 12:41:50 <eps> yeah, i am english, not happy with the way america has misappropriated our glorious imperial units ;)
1687 2011-03-02 12:42:27 <magnetron> eps: as i said, the feet and inches were never unique to UK or the British Empire back in the days
1688 2011-03-02 12:43:47 <eps> well what came first, the british empire or america?, there is really is no excuse...
1689 2011-03-02 12:43:51 <eps> i am joking by the way
1690 2011-03-02 12:44:01 <eps> not enough trolling in this channel today
1691 2011-03-02 12:46:52 gasteve has joined
1692 2011-03-02 13:03:06 <validus> ive only learned metric from drugs
1693 2011-03-02 13:03:11 <validus> problem with america. lol
1694 2011-03-02 13:03:40 <validus> not saying i buy or use tons of drugs but thats really how i got most the terms down from seeing it, hearing it, tv, etc
1695 2011-03-02 13:04:17 <ArtForz> and whoever came up with mils should be shot
1696 2011-03-02 13:04:33 <validus> i went to make my own antenna without calipers
1697 2011-03-02 13:04:37 <validus> that was not fun lol
1698 2011-03-02 13:04:45 <ArtForz> aka 1/1000 inch
1699 2011-03-02 13:04:54 <validus> oh 1/1000. screw that
1700 2011-03-02 13:05:20 TD has joined
1701 2011-03-02 13:05:26 <ArtForz> notice the fun mixing of inches with a nice power-of-10 divisor
1702 2011-03-02 13:06:51 <ArtForz> electronic industry is a crazy mix of metric and imperial
1703 2011-03-02 13:06:59 * Diablo-D3 beats Eclipse with a rock
1704 2011-03-02 13:07:04 <Diablo-D3> WINNING >_<
1705 2011-03-02 13:07:10 <validus> ya thats why i learn what i need to mostly
1706 2011-03-02 13:07:12 <ArtForz> what did the poor rock do?
1707 2011-03-02 13:07:18 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hurrr
1708 2011-03-02 13:07:19 <validus> but wont know what something basic is lol
1709 2011-03-02 13:07:40 <sipa> qbasic?
1710 2011-03-02 13:08:03 <validus> oh god
1711 2011-03-02 13:08:10 <validus> i almost got kicked outa school cuz of qbasic
1712 2011-03-02 13:08:12 <ArtForz> commodore basic 2.0
1713 2011-03-02 13:08:39 <Diablo-D3> how... do you... school.... what
1714 2011-03-02 13:08:43 <magnetron> validus: oh lol, those were the days
1715 2011-03-02 13:08:46 <validus> i made a dos emulator that said formatting the harddrive to a keypress and then i drew an animated ascii skull that laughed at you and the kid was crying cuz he thoguht he was going to get expelled
1716 2011-03-02 13:09:00 <validus> if you made it to dos prompt , auto expulsion
1717 2011-03-02 13:09:15 <validus> cs teacher had a webcam up and rewound the feed. hehe
1718 2011-03-02 13:09:23 <magnetron> validus: i made a fake NetWare login screen. in QBasic. saved it to a text file on C:\ LOL
1719 2011-03-02 13:09:34 <validus> i registered all our dos shareware menus to cuz i got tired of seeing the ads
1720 2011-03-02 13:10:02 <validus> then my senior year i had a t1, 3 gig hdd and a cd burner and i filled their 3 gig hdd up with a text file for cracking their passwords.
1721 2011-03-02 13:10:16 <validus> i did intern work at the school for their net dept
1722 2011-03-02 13:10:17 <validus> lol
1723 2011-03-02 13:10:52 <magnetron> some friends were banned from the computer room for 3 months, for catching network admin passwords over the Thinnet coaxial
1724 2011-03-02 13:10:53 <validus> everyone assumed i was stupid cuz i had long hair in a mostly all cowboy school
1725 2011-03-02 13:11:28 <magnetron> validus: this is so similar to my teen years
1726 2011-03-02 13:11:36 <validus> the net admin was my phsyics teacher he had a hard time trying to keep a straight face
1727 2011-03-02 13:11:46 <validus> he thought it was hilarious what i did
1728 2011-03-02 13:11:53 <validus> and i think redhat 4.1 had just came out
1729 2011-03-02 13:12:00 <validus> i dont really remember
1730 2011-03-02 13:12:42 rli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1731 2011-03-02 13:15:59 <ArtForz> once nearly got fired for forgetting a stupid message in a firmware flasher
1732 2011-03-02 13:16:22 <TD> "Erase flash: y/n" ?
1733 2011-03-02 13:17:10 <ArtForz> not quite
1734 2011-03-02 13:17:15 <validus> i still love the icon/desktop trick the most. fill the desktop up with icons. take a screencap. set it as teh background and erase all the icons. its extremely hard to keep a straight face espically all the pc's stores set out for ppl to play with
1735 2011-03-02 13:17:44 <validus> ppl will click for 15 mins just starin like wtf
1736 2011-03-02 13:18:34 <ArtForz> after successful flash it said "remove disk and reboot to complete update process", and if user tried to exit program, it said something like "nice try, but you'll still have to reboot"
1737 2011-03-02 13:18:52 <validus> lol. you got almost fired for that? they have no geek humor?
1738 2011-03-02 13:18:54 <TD> hah
1739 2011-03-02 13:19:14 <ArtForz> yeah
1740 2011-03-02 13:19:20 <validus> pfft
1741 2011-03-02 13:19:45 <validus> that look great on an app or resume. fired for making a program say , nice try but you still need to reboot
1742 2011-03-02 13:20:12 <ArtForz> weird as hell, as it was a internal utility not to be given out to customers
1743 2011-03-02 13:20:14 <validus> thats probably not legal grounds to fire either. that screams lawsuit to me
1744 2011-03-02 13:20:32 <magnetron> lawl you and your law suits
1745 2011-03-02 13:20:53 <validus> ppl think they can do whatever they want and get away with it. and i dont believe ive mentioned lawsuits really
1746 2011-03-02 13:21:13 <validus> only to 1 person that was thinking of a questionable business and i told them to make sure they check all their ends on some things they might not have thought about
1747 2011-03-02 13:21:18 <magnetron> i just assumed that you were USAnian
1748 2011-03-02 13:21:33 <validus> im sofistimicated redneck. theres a big diff :P
1749 2011-03-02 13:23:12 <validus> im not as dumb as i can make myself out to sound. lol
1750 2011-03-02 13:23:22 <ArtForz> catching up on the baron-vs-mtgox thread
1751 2011-03-02 13:23:23 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1752 2011-03-02 13:23:56 <validus> but i did cold callin sales for 8 years. and you learn alot doing that , espicially business wise, well the crew i was on anyways
1753 2011-03-02 13:30:52 <ArtForz> weird shit.
1754 2011-03-02 13:41:13 lfm has joined
1755 2011-03-02 13:42:32 <nathan7> Hmm
1756 2011-03-02 13:42:42 <nathan7> I haven't ever *used* my opness
1757 2011-03-02 13:42:56 <nathan7> Useless power
1758 2011-03-02 13:43:12 nathan7 has joined
1759 2011-03-02 13:43:15 <nathan7> =p
1760 2011-03-02 13:43:23 dabron has joined
1761 2011-03-02 13:43:23 <nathan7> ohshi
1762 2011-03-02 13:43:33 <nathan7> nameless|, tcatm: Op gribble?
1763 2011-03-02 13:43:38 <ArtForz> LOL
1764 2011-03-02 13:43:58 <magnetron> no more ops?
1765 2011-03-02 13:45:18 <nathan7> =p
1766 2011-03-02 13:46:02 <ArtForz> hey, BC is back up, cool
1767 2011-03-02 13:46:58 <nathan7> =o
1768 2011-03-02 13:47:15 <knotwork> I am running a test behind my firewall, who machines talking to each other, one mining the other not
1769 2011-03-02 13:47:50 <knotwork> the mining one I am using the GUI, so I can see what transactions it thinks exist and what its hash rate is etc
1770 2011-03-02 13:48:30 <knotwork> regularly upon starting a new wallet and waiting for it to generate a block, I end up distracted
1771 2011-03-02 13:48:57 <knotwork> long enough that it has generated two blocks. but, the GUI only shows one. it is the debug.log both on the
1772 2011-03-02 13:49:18 <knotwork> machine running the GUI and also on the machine running the non-mining bitcoind that both show
1773 2011-03-02 13:49:19 <ArtForz> goi only shows generation tx after one block is after it
1774 2011-03-02 13:49:26 <ArtForz> *gui
1775 2011-03-02 13:49:28 <knotwork> two blocks generated and accepted
1776 2011-03-02 13:49:31 <ArtForz> yes
1777 2011-03-02 13:49:32 <knotwork> ah, thanks
1778 2011-03-02 13:49:45 <knotwork> I figured accepted meant it should be showing
1779 2011-03-02 13:50:05 <knotwork> so if I stop the GUI, stash the wallet to start another new wallet, I should still find two
1780 2011-03-02 13:50:14 <ArtForz> yes
1781 2011-03-02 13:50:14 <knotwork> blocks when I restore the wallet?
1782 2011-03-02 13:50:17 <ArtForz> it's a bit of a "don't confuse the user" feature
1783 2011-03-02 13:50:45 <molecular> did the backlog issue get resolved by the faucet paying fees? what's the queue size, artforz?
1784 2011-03-02 13:50:47 <knotwork> well it will be confused but happy I guess when they fire up GUI again later to find they had
1785 2011-03-02 13:50:51 <ArtForz> molecular: sec
1786 2011-03-02 13:51:00 <knotwork> actually generated two blocks when they thought they had only generated one
1787 2011-03-02 13:51:12 <afed> ;;bc,stats
1788 2011-03-02 13:51:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111380 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1515 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 13 hours, 21 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 61311.94518201
1789 2011-03-02 13:51:31 <ArtForz> knotwork: it's so users dont go wtf when they mine a fork block which gets invalidated when the other block in the race wins
1790 2011-03-02 13:51:58 <ArtForz> molecular: 2 tx queued
1791 2011-03-02 13:52:10 <knotwork> cool yes that makes sense thanks
1792 2011-03-02 13:52:11 <ArtForz> we shortly had ~100 again
1793 2011-03-02 13:52:18 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1794 2011-03-02 13:52:28 <validus> is there a list of mhash/s of 69xx cards the one pastebin link only goes to 68xx
1795 2011-03-02 13:52:47 <ArtForz> but cleared itself pretty quickly
1796 2011-03-02 13:52:54 <lfm> valdus try wiki
1797 2011-03-02 13:53:03 <molecular> yay, but the problem still exists.. at some point we will run into it again.
1798 2011-03-02 13:53:23 <ArtForz> yep
1799 2011-03-02 13:53:32 <ArtForz> but I doubt anything can be done about it
1800 2011-03-02 13:53:47 <ArtForz> the reason *why* all those faucet tx queued up is pretty obvious now
1801 2011-03-02 13:54:11 rli has joined
1802 2011-03-02 13:54:21 <molecular> there have been some suggestions in the thread: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4009.0;all
1803 2011-03-02 13:54:32 <ArtForz> validus: about 260Mhps for a 6950, 312 for a 6970, scaled to my clmine numbers
1804 2011-03-02 13:54:35 <bitbot> CreateTransaction: suggest/enforce fee for big low-priority transactions timed out
1805 2011-03-02 13:54:38 <molecular> you think none of them could solve the problem?
1806 2011-03-02 13:54:55 <ArtForz> actually a few of them like they'll help reduce the problem
1807 2011-03-02 13:55:08 <molecular> seems to me abandoning idea of "space of free tx" and integrating fee into priority calculation could solve the troubles
1808 2011-03-02 13:55:17 <molecular> "space for free tx"
1809 2011-03-02 13:55:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you know what Ive been wondering
1810 2011-03-02 13:55:23 <ArtForz> basic problem is, faucet creates tx that DO look like spam
1811 2011-03-02 13:55:27 <Diablo-D3> if 2.3 just doesnt compile for 5 units at all
1812 2011-03-02 13:55:27 <validus> thanks
1813 2011-03-02 13:55:28 <Diablo-D3> and only uses 2
1814 2011-03-02 13:55:32 <Diablo-D3> er
1815 2011-03-02 13:55:32 <Diablo-D3> 4
1816 2011-03-02 13:55:42 <Diablo-D3> unless it needs a specific instruction from the T unit
1817 2011-03-02 13:55:59 <molecular> well, people producing spam-like tx will just have to pay a fee
1818 2011-03-02 13:56:00 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: nope
1819 2011-03-02 13:56:23 <ArtForz> molecular: agree
1820 2011-03-02 13:56:38 <molecular> so you think we should leave everything as-is?
1821 2011-03-02 13:56:43 <ArtForz> anyways, only Q is why a bunch of pool tx also took ages to get into a block
1822 2011-03-02 13:57:01 <molecular> maybe slush used money from the faucet ;)
1823 2011-03-02 13:57:05 <ArtForz> wild guess "because they also were a long chain of 0/unconfirmed"
1824 2011-03-02 13:57:17 <lfm> you think it was some change in 0.3.20?
1825 2011-03-02 13:57:29 <ArtForz> more like a change around 0.3.15 or so
1826 2011-03-02 13:57:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, why the fuck is it so slow
1827 2011-03-02 13:58:19 <Ratchet> hi. does poclbm print something if a block gets accepted? or do I have some other means of detecting if I found a block other than waiting if the confirmations block eventually gets accepted and btc show up in my wallet?
1828 2011-03-02 13:58:55 <lfm> Ratchet: it prints some stuff in debug.log file
1829 2011-03-02 13:58:56 <Ratchet> poclbm is not really verbose :-)
1830 2011-03-02 13:59:08 <ArtForz> I still have to properly check if its true, but I think current miner wont put multiple tx of a 0/unconf chain into a block
1831 2011-03-02 13:59:10 <molecular> artforz, would you be inclined to take your py non-node and rip out the networking stuff so I could use that to monitor tx queue?
1832 2011-03-02 13:59:19 <Diablo-D3> Ratchet: it prints something.
1833 2011-03-02 13:59:25 <Ratchet> I have no debug.log
1834 2011-03-02 13:59:51 <lfm> molecular its a simple patch to std client
1835 2011-03-02 13:59:55 <ArtForz> molecular: sure can, it's slow as fuck and eats a lot of memory though
1836 2011-03-02 14:00:04 <Ratchet> should I run it with --verbose and pipe the output in a file?
1837 2011-03-02 14:00:17 <ArtForz> nice part is it keeps all "cached" tx in a file
1838 2011-03-02 14:01:27 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1839 2011-03-02 14:01:50 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/rdUg0bmK
1840 2011-03-02 14:02:13 amiller has joined
1841 2011-03-02 14:02:52 <ArtForz> it doesnt have any intelligent code to kick off block DL, and then follows the prevblock chain back to genesis, so ... kinda slow as fuck
1842 2011-03-02 14:03:17 <ArtForz> it also keeps *all* blocks and tx in ram
1843 2011-03-02 14:04:01 <ArtForz> just replace blockdb/txdb with something better
1844 2011-03-02 14:07:46 <edcba> somehow it looks nicer than satoshi's code...
1845 2011-03-02 14:08:09 <ArtForz> actually it's god-awful
1846 2011-03-02 14:08:31 <Ratchet> aaah, the debug.log is from bitcoind, not poclbm ;-) thx!
1847 2011-03-02 14:08:45 <ArtForz> it's more meant to document network protocol than anything else
1848 2011-03-02 14:09:05 <edcba> serialize to string :)
1849 2011-03-02 14:09:40 <Ratchet> does anybody know what it prints on accepting a block so I can grep for it?
1850 2011-03-02 14:09:49 Zarutian has joined
1851 2011-03-02 14:10:01 <edcba> calc_orphanity seems weird
1852 2011-03-02 14:10:12 <edcba> can't you use some better python construct ?
1853 2011-03-02 14:10:16 <ArtForz> sure
1854 2011-03-02 14:10:21 <molecular> ArtForz, thanks a lot, will look into it
1855 2011-03-02 14:10:22 <ArtForz> but I was lazy
1856 2011-03-02 14:10:37 <ArtForz> and it does its job
1857 2011-03-02 14:11:33 <molecular> no need to defend, I asked for it ;)
1858 2011-03-02 14:12:21 <ArtForz> btw, I write very unpythonic python
1859 2011-03-02 14:12:46 <ArtForz> aka "I write in C. in any language." ;)
1860 2011-03-02 14:14:13 <molecular> I can easily live with that. language-specific "tricks and shortcuts" just make it harder to read if you dont know the language well
1861 2011-03-02 14:15:02 <ArtForz> well, that, and most higher-level idioms don't port to C too well
1862 2011-03-02 14:15:21 <ArtForz> and yes, I really like prototyping C in python
1863 2011-03-02 14:16:27 <edcba> still you should lean functions like map reduce filter :)
1864 2011-03-02 14:16:30 <edcba> learn
1865 2011-03-02 14:16:52 <molecular> can I just "touch tx.bin block.bin"?
1866 2011-03-02 14:16:58 <ArtForz> yep
1867 2011-03-02 14:17:04 <ArtForz> actually I know very well about them, I just dont liek using them
1868 2011-03-02 14:17:16 <edcba> for tx in self.txmap.itervalues():
1869 2011-03-02 14:17:16 <edcba> if tx.is_orphan:
1870 2011-03-02 14:17:17 <edcba> norphans += 1
1871 2011-03-02 14:17:45 <edcba> you like writing a lot of code :)
1872 2011-03-02 14:17:58 <ArtForz> feel free to turn that into a sum ;)
1873 2011-03-02 14:18:32 <edcba> i try to not rewrite working code :)
1874 2011-03-02 14:18:45 <edcba> only when it's unbearable
1875 2011-03-02 14:19:23 <ArtForz> I also like pulling shit like using numberic loop counters and indexing 2 arrays instead of using zip
1876 2011-03-02 14:19:38 <edcba> haha
1877 2011-03-02 14:19:58 <edcba> i wrote some code like that 1h ago
1878 2011-03-02 14:20:02 <ArtForz> aka "old habits die hard, and thats the way I'd do it in C"
1879 2011-03-02 14:20:06 <edcba> but i do c#...
1880 2011-03-02 14:20:29 <lfm> I just write C in C, skip a step
1881 2011-03-02 14:20:38 <molecular> weird: when I try with testnet (port 18333) it gives me exception: read garbage, line 667. is my testnet node fail?
1882 2011-03-02 14:20:42 <molecular> works with real net
1883 2011-03-02 14:20:43 <ArtForz> no
1884 2011-03-02 14:20:50 <ArtForz> you need to change the magic strings
1885 2011-03-02 14:20:56 <molecular> ah
1886 2011-03-02 14:21:07 <edcba> conveniently hardcoded ?
1887 2011-03-02 14:21:12 <ArtForz> yes
1888 2011-03-02 14:21:39 <ArtForz> just replace all "\xf9\xbe\xb4\xd9" with "\xfa\xbf\xb5\xda"
1889 2011-03-02 14:21:43 <molecular> edcba, what do you expect, he wrote this for himself, not for the masses
1890 2011-03-02 14:21:59 <edcba> yes it's nice he gives it away
1891 2011-03-02 14:22:19 <edcba> but still for that kind of string i'd have defined a constant
1892 2011-03-02 14:22:27 <edcba> dunno how you've done :)
1893 2011-03-02 14:22:57 <lfm> I admit I once was writing pascal in PL/1
1894 2011-03-02 14:24:53 <quellhorst> so why isn't the next difficulty going to be as big of a jump as the last one?
1895 2011-03-02 14:25:20 <lfm> nk as much new hashing
1896 2011-03-02 14:25:27 <ArtForz> well... because hashrate isnt increasing as fast as it used to ...
1897 2011-03-02 14:25:45 <quellhorst> less new mining capacity being added?
1898 2011-03-02 14:25:49 <ArtForz> yep
1899 2011-03-02 14:25:53 <sipa> presumably
1900 2011-03-02 14:26:05 <ArtForz> looks like for example vlads mining contracts are currently a losing proposition
1901 2011-03-02 14:26:31 <quellhorst> bitcoin $ go up after the last increase in difficulty?
1902 2011-03-02 14:26:37 <ArtForz> ?
1903 2011-03-02 14:26:40 <ArtForz> not really
1904 2011-03-02 14:26:48 <quellhorst> it should have?!?
1905 2011-03-02 14:26:52 <ArtForz> no, why?
1906 2011-03-02 14:27:22 <molecular> so more miners will join ;)
1907 2011-03-02 14:27:27 <quellhorst> just like when oil goes up, gas goes up. seems to me that they should be correlated
1908 2011-03-02 14:27:43 <molecular> nah, don't see that
1909 2011-03-02 14:27:43 <ArtForz> they probably are, but it's the other way around
1910 2011-03-02 14:27:49 BlueMatt has joined
1911 2011-03-02 14:28:04 <molecular> because miners drop BTC on market to buy more hardware?
1912 2011-03-02 14:28:05 <sipa> it is not that when gold minings tools become harder to buy, that gold price goes up
1913 2011-03-02 14:28:30 <ArtForz> looks like mining growth rate nicely lags changes in $/Mhash by about 1-2 weeks
1914 2011-03-02 14:28:40 <sipa> BTC/USD value puts a limit on the difficulty, because mining becomes inprofitable above a certain difficulty, but not the other way around (at least not on the short term)
1915 2011-03-02 14:28:50 <ArtForz> yep
1916 2011-03-02 14:29:33 <BlueMatt> All this talk that mining getting harder will raise the price isn't quite justified
1917 2011-03-02 14:29:47 <ArtForz> errr... thats what I'm saying
1918 2011-03-02 14:30:03 <BlueMatt> hence i agree
1919 2011-03-02 14:30:34 <ArtForz> imo it's exactly the other way around, price changes affect incentive for miners
1920 2011-03-02 14:30:50 <BlueMatt> but so many people seem to think that price will go up BECAUSE mining is harder, which is wrong imho
1921 2011-03-02 14:31:09 <BlueMatt> The thing is mining creates the supply
1922 2011-03-02 14:31:11 <ArtForz> well, guess those people could be in for quite a surprise...
1923 2011-03-02 14:31:14 <molecular> ArtForz, is it downloading the block-chain in reverse?
1924 2011-03-02 14:31:22 <quellhorst> good point. demand for bitcoin drives price
1925 2011-03-02 14:31:22 <ArtForz> yes
1926 2011-03-02 14:31:26 <molecular> hehe
1927 2011-03-02 14:31:35 <molecular> that's cool
1928 2011-03-02 14:31:43 <ArtForz> it's stupid, it simply follows hPrevBlock until it finds a all-0
1929 2011-03-02 14:31:53 <molecular> why is that stupid?
1930 2011-03-02 14:32:10 <ArtForz> well, if it were smarter it'd use getblocks and grab blocks in batches of 500
1931 2011-03-02 14:32:21 <lfm> well higher difficulty could reduce supply on market
1932 2011-03-02 14:32:22 <molecular> If I used this as a real node, I could start mining right away before dl is complete
1933 2011-03-02 14:32:34 <BlueMatt> however, the supply is currently HUGE if the price goes up a bit more, and if mining gets harder people won't be creating a much supply, but there will be alot of "old" btc left to be sold
1934 2011-03-02 14:32:53 <ArtForz> but the supply *doesnt* change
1935 2011-03-02 14:32:59 <ArtForz> it's 7200 btc/day
1936 2011-03-02 14:33:22 <ArtForz> doesnt matter if total hashrate is 1 or 1000 Ghps
1937 2011-03-02 14:33:28 <BlueMatt> true, but difficulty ca effect the supply at a price
1938 2011-03-02 14:33:35 <molecular> I think he might mean the "existing" volume stored by miners
1939 2011-03-02 14:33:56 <quellhorst> BlueMatt: huge from when cpu mining still worked?
1940 2011-03-02 14:34:04 <molecular> well, if hashrate drops to 10%, the supply will stall until next difficulty adjust, no?
1941 2011-03-02 14:34:05 <BlueMatt> yes
1942 2011-03-02 14:34:09 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1943 2011-03-02 14:34:24 <BlueMatt> sorry, typing on a touchscren is fairly slow...
1944 2011-03-02 14:34:53 <molecular> but that wont happen (drop to 10%)
1945 2011-03-02 14:35:21 <BlueMatt> molecular: no, there is so much supply stored right now which will be made available if the price rises
1946 2011-03-02 14:35:33 <molecular> yeah, I agree with that
1947 2011-03-02 14:35:40 <BlueMatt> that dwarfs what is made by miners
1948 2011-03-02 14:35:45 <ArtForz> yep
1949 2011-03-02 14:36:25 <BlueMatt> oh, yea but I think though the actual volume generated drops, I don't think supply will much
1950 2011-03-02 14:36:43 <BlueMatt> there is just so much out there eight now...
1951 2011-03-02 14:37:04 <BlueMatt> right*
1952 2011-03-02 14:38:32 <Blitzboom> needs way more demand
1953 2011-03-02 14:38:43 <BlueMatt> very true
1954 2011-03-02 14:39:09 <luke-jr> where might I find puddinpop's pool code?
1955 2011-03-02 14:40:37 <ArtForz> luke-jr: tried looking at his forum post?
1956 2011-03-02 14:40:51 <luke-jr> where?
1957 2011-03-02 14:41:09 <ArtForz> ... on the forum.
1958 2011-03-02 14:41:26 <Blitzboom> haha
1959 2011-03-02 14:42:56 <edcba> lol
1960 2011-03-02 14:43:35 * ArtForz dons search function hat
1961 2011-03-02 14:43:36 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
1962 2011-03-02 14:43:49 <bitbot> Pooled/Remote Mining - Open Source - Updated 2010-12-24 timed out
1963 2011-03-02 14:46:52 x6763 has left ()
1964 2011-03-02 14:47:14 x6763 has joined
1965 2011-03-02 14:47:48 <luke-jr> it sounds like that won't work with normal miners?
1966 2011-03-02 14:47:56 <ArtForz> nope
1967 2011-03-02 14:48:00 <luke-jr> :/
1968 2011-03-02 14:48:12 EvanR-work has joined
1969 2011-03-02 14:53:56 <luke-jr> ArtForz: the end of the thread talks as if it does O.o
1970 2011-03-02 14:54:32 <ArtForz> *shrug* never tried
1971 2011-03-02 14:54:39 slush has joined
1972 2011-03-02 14:54:40 <ArtForz> maybe he updated it or something
1973 2011-03-02 14:56:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: whats the mime type for json that miners expect?
1974 2011-03-02 14:56:03 <Diablo-D3> text/json?
1975 2011-03-02 14:56:20 <Diablo-D3> application/json?
1976 2011-03-02 14:56:25 <Diablo-D3> dongs/dongs?
1977 2011-03-02 14:56:43 <ArtForz> dongs/dongs
1978 2011-03-02 14:56:52 <Diablo-D3> dongs/dongs it is
1979 2011-03-02 14:57:28 <ArtForz> though bitcoin sends application/json for some reason
1980 2011-03-02 14:58:06 <ArtForz> but then it also claims to speak http ...
1981 2011-03-02 14:58:14 <Diablo-D3> lol
1982 2011-03-02 15:03:10 <x6763> wow someone's sending out some large 100000+ BTC transactions
1983 2011-03-02 15:03:29 <BlueMatt> anyone know where the ocl drivers are in kdm? are they still dependent on x, or can they run sans-x with kdm?
1984 2011-03-02 15:04:17 <quellhorst> x6763: maybe the guy who made bitcoin is spreading his money into diff accounts
1985 2011-03-02 15:04:58 <x6763> quellhorst: no idea
1986 2011-03-02 15:05:04 <x6763> now there's a bunch of tiny transactions happening
1987 2011-03-02 15:05:07 <ArtForz> looks more like someone moved ~25k out of his 135k addr
1988 2011-03-02 15:05:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: what does opencl have to do with kdm?
1989 2011-03-02 15:05:34 <BlueMatt> it depends on x arm
1990 2011-03-02 15:05:48 <BlueMatt> atm*
1991 2011-03-02 15:06:09 <sipa> the drivers are just fglrx (if you use ati cards)
1992 2011-03-02 15:06:16 <sipa> you need the sdk streams api
1993 2011-03-02 15:06:22 <sipa> that's a separate download
1994 2011-03-02 15:06:36 <BlueMatt> so why the x dep, what about wayland +kdm?
1995 2011-03-02 15:06:40 <sipa> but all that is completely independent from any particulat graphical program
1996 2011-03-02 15:06:47 <sipa> i don't know wayland
1997 2011-03-02 15:07:02 <sipa> because the X server is the thing that does the actual communication with the card
1998 2011-03-02 15:07:13 <BlueMatt> I understand it is separate just wondering if it works wo it
1999 2011-03-02 15:07:25 <ArtForz> because atis opencl stuff sits on top of atis opengl stuff
2000 2011-03-02 15:07:25 <sipa> it needs X
2001 2011-03-02 15:07:27 <sipa> that's all
2002 2011-03-02 15:07:49 <BlueMatt> so... no mining in ubuntu 11.04?
2003 2011-03-02 15:08:02 <lfm> gah huge smap of 300 txn just came in
2004 2011-03-02 15:08:06 <sipa> dunno, is there a fglrx for fubuntu 11.04?
2005 2011-03-02 15:08:27 <BlueMatt> no idea
2006 2011-03-02 15:08:36 AmpEater has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2007 2011-03-02 15:08:56 <luke-jr> x6763: lrn2change
2008 2011-03-02 15:09:26 <BlueMatt> I'm assuming x will be there in some fashion, but I'm just tryin to figure out how it all works together
2009 2011-03-02 15:09:28 <lfm> slush is paying his hoard of penny miners again
2010 2011-03-02 15:09:44 <x6763> haha
2011 2011-03-02 15:09:52 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2012 2011-03-02 15:10:09 <slush> lfm: those 300 txn is definitely not for me
2013 2011-03-02 15:10:20 <luke-jr> [09:56:47] <bitcoincharts> TX 1MmaQgk7poPfGD1bfV6Cj52JBLonCT3Rf3 111418.00 BTC 1Erym9piP3LcRNGBCEiAYMw4xjBT54yhKM 4999.00 BTC 6d793838aef252bb294a7706a52a3301bd199b55aa6133bc193f704b0d01daf2
2014 2011-03-02 15:10:27 <lfm> no? oh dear who is it
2015 2011-03-02 15:10:29 <luke-jr> that's more likely sending 4999 than 111418
2016 2011-03-02 15:10:46 <slush> I think you overstate the size of the pool :)
2017 2011-03-02 15:11:08 <lfm> up to 420 now
2018 2011-03-02 15:11:14 <slush> lfm: Hourly payouts are under 40 tx
2019 2011-03-02 15:11:17 <slush> from the pool
2020 2011-03-02 15:11:22 <ArtForz> just tx spam
2021 2011-03-02 15:11:33 <ArtForz> nothing new under the sun
2022 2011-03-02 15:11:40 <lfm> slush, ok, you're right I was overestimating
2023 2011-03-02 15:11:46 <x6763> i've got almost 450 tx in my tx pool right now
2024 2011-03-02 15:11:58 <lfm> still goin up
2025 2011-03-02 15:12:01 <x6763> yep
2026 2011-03-02 15:12:04 <ArtForz> still going on
2027 2011-03-02 15:12:19 <x6763> looks like someone's breaking up their huge stash of bitcoins into lots of tiny pieces
2028 2011-03-02 15:12:23 <ArtForz> just watch the fun in #bitcoin-monitor
2029 2011-03-02 15:12:58 <ArtForz> x6763: about 4-5k sized tiny pieces ;)
2030 2011-03-02 15:13:31 hendi has joined
2031 2011-03-02 15:13:31 hendi has quit (Changing host)
2032 2011-03-02 15:13:31 hendi has joined
2033 2011-03-02 15:13:33 <x6763> yeah, "tiny"
2034 2011-03-02 15:14:35 <lfm> someone trying to force free payments out of the net?
2035 2011-03-02 15:14:44 <x6763> my tx pool is just shy of 500 at the moment
2036 2011-03-02 15:14:45 <ArtForz> unlikely
2037 2011-03-02 15:15:17 <ArtForz> that 133k one is just a single chain of tx, each one pretty small, it will slowly get into blocks one tx at a time
2038 2011-03-02 15:15:42 <ArtForz> meanwhile all those 0.01 tx will just sit there getting outranked even by faucet tx ...
2039 2011-03-02 15:15:53 <lfm> hehe
2040 2011-03-02 15:15:59 <luke-jr> he said trying, not succeeding
2041 2011-03-02 15:16:02 <ArtForz> = looks like shit works exactly as intended
2042 2011-03-02 15:16:12 <luke-jr> and faucet only wins because it has a fee
2043 2011-03-02 15:16:23 <ArtForz> well, and because 0.05 > 0.01
2044 2011-03-02 15:16:35 <luke-jr> but faucet's coins are newer
2045 2011-03-02 15:16:47 <ArtForz> err... all those 0.01s are 0-confirm
2046 2011-03-02 15:17:23 <da2ce7> I have a passphase for using my pgp key, If i export my private key, is that key protected by the passcode?
2047 2011-03-02 15:17:41 <da2ce7> or is it sitting fully un-encripted.
2048 2011-03-02 15:18:17 <ArtForz> and the 0.01 spam stopped, guess mr spammer either gave up or managed to DoS himself
2049 2011-03-02 15:18:29 <slush> looks like txes from the pool are blocked for quite long time now :)
2050 2011-03-02 15:18:54 <slush> can I set fee under 0.01 with stock client right now, without patches?
2051 2011-03-02 15:19:03 <ArtForz> iirc, no
2052 2011-03-02 15:19:06 <slush> I tried in GUI, but it rounds to .01
2053 2011-03-02 15:19:10 <slush> hmm, bad
2054 2011-03-02 15:20:05 <luke-jr> slush: I think if you merge gavin's branch
2055 2011-03-02 15:20:37 <luke-jr> my miner would require a .00004096 BTC fee :P
2056 2011-03-02 15:20:53 <luke-jr> or .00065536 if you have a lot of them
2057 2011-03-02 15:21:04 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2058 2011-03-02 15:21:17 <luke-jr> slush: you could always modify your bitcoind to prioritize your ownâ¦
2059 2011-03-02 15:21:36 MartianW has joined
2060 2011-03-02 15:22:06 <x6763> here comes a bunch of small transactions again
2061 2011-03-02 15:23:46 <ArtForz> yep, notice how slowly they're trickling in
2062 2011-03-02 15:24:03 <ArtForz> about 1/second
2063 2011-03-02 15:24:51 <ArtForz> and no, 0.10/tx won't help either
2064 2011-03-02 15:24:56 <da2ce7> so I just tested... It asked me for my passphase... so I guess the exported private keys are protected by your passphase you enter when you genearte em'
2065 2011-03-02 15:25:01 <x6763> a lot of the time they're coming in a lot faster on my machine than they are in #bitcoin-monitor
2066 2011-03-02 15:25:22 <x6763> i'll get bursts of like 10/second quite often
2067 2011-03-02 15:25:25 <ArtForz> yea
2068 2011-03-02 15:25:27 <sipa> da2ce7: it needed the passphrase to decrypt your private key
2069 2011-03-02 15:25:32 <ArtForz> with dead periods in between
2070 2011-03-02 15:25:36 <ArtForz> rate limiting at work
2071 2011-03-02 15:25:49 <x6763> tx pool over 800
2072 2011-03-02 15:26:08 <x6763> last block was like 27 minutes ago
2073 2011-03-02 15:26:20 <ArtForz> and no, 0.10/tx wont make the spam any less spammy, it'll still get a 0 dPriority score :P
2074 2011-03-02 15:26:32 <lfm> someone think they can fill up memory?
2075 2011-03-02 15:26:44 <ArtForz> well, they can try
2076 2011-03-02 15:26:51 <x6763> at this rate it will take quite a while to fill up memory
2077 2011-03-02 15:27:08 <lfm> and we can just restart to reset
2078 2011-03-02 15:27:14 <ArtForz> well, they'll DoS their own client long before then
2079 2011-03-02 15:28:07 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2080 2011-03-02 15:28:53 <luke-jr> 981 in my tx pool
2081 2011-03-02 15:28:54 <x6763> wow, tx pool over 1000 now
2082 2011-03-02 15:29:01 <ArtForz> yup
2083 2011-03-02 15:29:02 <luke-jr> only 10 accepted to my current block
2084 2011-03-02 15:29:11 <Blitzboom> lol
2085 2011-03-02 15:29:20 <Blitzboom> whoâs doing that?
2086 2011-03-02 15:29:28 <luke-jr> that flooder should include tx fees to get into my blocks
2087 2011-03-02 15:29:30 <luke-jr> <.<
2088 2011-03-02 15:29:37 <x6763> lol
2089 2011-03-02 15:29:42 <lfm> we dont know, maybe you Blitzboom
2090 2011-03-02 15:29:44 <ArtForz> another 18000 or so and my client may even start dropping a bunch of em :P
2091 2011-03-02 15:29:59 <Blitzboom> yeah, but then, it might be you, lfm
2092 2011-03-02 15:30:02 <Blitzboom> :P
2093 2011-03-02 15:30:27 bk128-Droid has joined
2094 2011-03-02 15:30:40 <ArtForz> at 260B/tx it takes quite a few to fill up a 5MB buffer
2095 2011-03-02 15:31:00 BlueMatt has joined
2096 2011-03-02 15:31:00 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2097 2011-03-02 15:31:00 BlueMatt has joined
2098 2011-03-02 15:32:00 <lfm> yay ""personal privacy" rights do not apply to corporations. "We trust that AT&T will not take it personally" concluded the ruling"
2099 2011-03-02 15:32:10 AndChat- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2100 2011-03-02 15:32:17 <amiller> how long has this tx spam been going on
2101 2011-03-02 15:32:26 <lfm> just a few minutes
2102 2011-03-02 15:32:30 <lfm> this time
2103 2011-03-02 15:32:33 <amiller> and what about the large transactions that preceded this, starting at 14:50 utc
2104 2011-03-02 15:33:17 <ArtForz> 30 minutes or so
2105 2011-03-02 15:33:22 <ArtForz> for 1000 tx
2106 2011-03-02 15:33:23 bk128-Droid has quit (Client Quit)
2107 2011-03-02 15:33:54 <lfm> 1k exactly here
2108 2011-03-02 15:34:21 <ArtForz> so keep this up for about 10 more hours and there's 5MB of tx queued :P
2109 2011-03-02 15:34:32 bk128-Droid has joined
2110 2011-03-02 15:34:37 <amiller> something like 2 million in total transfer occurred at 15:00utc over twenty transactions, that looks strange
2111 2011-03-02 15:34:43 <lfm> oh dear we must all panic now
2112 2011-03-02 15:34:50 <amiller> need to develop clustering software..
2113 2011-03-02 15:35:08 <ArtForz> amiller: it's one single 135k input being split into 4-5k chunks
2114 2011-03-02 15:36:47 <ArtForz> wildass guess, someone trying to cause a panic
2115 2011-03-02 15:37:56 <amiller> it's not necessary to do the transactions like that, those could have just been 4k transactions instead of splitting off 4k and sending the remainder somewhere else
2116 2011-03-02 15:37:59 <amiller> is that right?
2117 2011-03-02 15:38:07 <ArtForz> no
2118 2011-03-02 15:38:35 <ArtForz> if all the node has is a single 135k as input and is asked to send 4-5k multiple times, it will do it like that
2119 2011-03-02 15:38:38 <ArtForz> how else shoudl it do it
2120 2011-03-02 15:39:03 <amiller> so each input to a transaction is a value and an address, and the value is always exactly the total balance for that address
2121 2011-03-02 15:39:17 <ArtForz> errr... no
2122 2011-03-02 15:39:22 <amiller> i knew the value couldn't be _more_ than the balance for the address but i figured it could be less...
2123 2011-03-02 15:39:35 <ArtForz> each input has to pe a output of a previous transaction
2124 2011-03-02 15:39:35 <luke-jr> amiller: each input is a single coin
2125 2011-03-02 15:39:41 <ArtForz> a full output
2126 2011-03-02 15:40:14 <luke-jr> amiller: basically, a tx is throwing gold coins into a melting pot, and then pouring new coins (output)
2127 2011-03-02 15:40:27 <lfm> but theoreticlly you cant tell the payment from the returned change. in practise sometimes you can
2128 2011-03-02 15:41:02 <ArtForz> btw, wasnt there a (lots of inputs) -> 135k + 0.55btc tx like yesterday?
2129 2011-03-02 15:41:03 <amiller> i see
2130 2011-03-02 15:41:30 <ArtForz> aka "guess someone really needed to send those 0.55 somewhere" ;)
2131 2011-03-02 15:42:02 <ArtForz> and yes, thats a joke on the "can't tell which output is change" property
2132 2011-03-02 15:42:38 <amiller> that's very interesting, i understand now - the gold melting metaphor is very good
2133 2011-03-02 15:42:43 <ArtForz> kinda like (lots of inputs) -> 5000 + 0.03
2134 2011-03-02 15:42:50 <lfm> if there are multiple inputs then the change cannot be larger than the smallest input
2135 2011-03-02 15:43:14 <ArtForz> lfm: assuming stock client
2136 2011-03-02 15:43:21 <luke-jr> lfm: not true
2137 2011-03-02 15:43:46 <ArtForz> iirc lukes client does exactly that to avoid sub-cent outputs
2138 2011-03-02 15:43:55 <luke-jr> ArtForz: also should be in .21
2139 2011-03-02 15:44:56 <ArtForz> cool
2140 2011-03-02 15:45:05 <amiller> is that a reason to prefer proportional fees to the btc value? it would make it more expensive to get higher priority piggybacking
2141 2011-03-02 15:46:01 <ArtForz> errr... huh?
2142 2011-03-02 15:49:10 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2143 2011-03-02 15:49:36 Tril has joined
2144 2011-03-02 15:50:09 <lfm> luke-jr so is that your client doing the 0.0001 fees I see?
2145 2011-03-02 15:50:09 discHead has joined
2146 2011-03-02 15:50:19 <luke-jr> lfm: no, that's Faucet
2147 2011-03-02 15:50:29 <lfm> ah ok
2148 2011-03-02 15:50:50 Tril has left ()
2149 2011-03-02 15:50:57 <luke-jr> would it not be ok if it was me? :P
2150 2011-03-02 15:51:13 <luke-jr> personally, I'd be using 0.0000001 fees :P
2151 2011-03-02 15:51:21 <lfm> naw, but I might have more questions :-)
2152 2011-03-02 15:52:59 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2153 2011-03-02 15:58:32 Tril has joined
2154 2011-03-02 16:00:07 <CIA-55> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r3bdf3ff / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Support --url so you can do http://user:pass@ip:port/ - http://bit.ly/dQbujA
2155 2011-03-02 16:00:24 rgm3 has joined
2156 2011-03-02 16:00:29 ForceMajeure has joined
2157 2011-03-02 16:01:03 <rcorreia> has anyone noticed that there has been no blocks mined in the past 1 hour?
2158 2011-03-02 16:01:09 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: but can you do http://user:pass@ip:port/path/to/rpc ?
2159 2011-03-02 16:01:18 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: its a url.
2160 2011-03-02 16:01:35 <luke-jr> rcorreia: so?
2161 2011-03-02 16:01:37 <Diablo-D3> it almost blindly uses it raw
2162 2011-03-02 16:02:00 <rcorreia> luke-jr: the average time between blocks has been 7 minutes according to http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
2163 2011-03-02 16:02:12 <luke-jr> rcorreia: that's low
2164 2011-03-02 16:02:20 <luke-jr> guess we needed a 1+ hr block
2165 2011-03-02 16:02:21 <rcorreia> also notice the number of recent transactions
2166 2011-03-02 16:02:26 <lfm> ya user:pass is part of url standard but It doesnt seem to be used for bitcoin mining
2167 2011-03-02 16:02:49 <rcorreia> could the large number of transactions be affecting the speed of GPU miners?
2168 2011-03-02 16:02:57 <lfm> shouldnt
2169 2011-03-02 16:04:07 <ArtForz> it did so a long time ago
2170 2011-03-02 16:04:12 <ArtForz> then shit got fixed
2171 2011-03-02 16:05:03 <ArtForz> basically back then getwork scaled O(n**2) with #tx
2172 2011-03-02 16:05:07 <Diablo-D3> lfm: btw, it IS used for bitcoin mining...
2173 2011-03-02 16:05:12 <CIA-55> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r69109e6 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Make it not eat the url protocol - http://bit.ly/eQ0oLG
2174 2011-03-02 16:05:14 <ArtForz> nowadays it's O(n)
2175 2011-03-02 16:05:17 <Diablo-D3> lfm: the problem is everyones too stupid to actually use it
2176 2011-03-02 16:05:57 <lfm> Diablo-D3: oh ok
2177 2011-03-02 16:06:09 <rcorreia> ArtForz: O(n)? Then that means that a doubling in the transaction rate causes a doubling in mining difficulty
2178 2011-03-02 16:06:12 <Diablo-D3> my miner does do it right
2179 2011-03-02 16:06:20 <rcorreia> ArtForz: it should be O(1)
2180 2011-03-02 16:06:27 <ArtForz> rcorreia: learn big-o notation
2181 2011-03-02 16:06:45 <Diablo-D3> so I can do http://user.machone:password@mining.bitcoin.cz:8332/
2182 2011-03-02 16:06:48 <Diablo-D3> and it works
2183 2011-03-02 16:07:29 <sipa> rcorreia: getwork is O(n)
2184 2011-03-02 16:07:34 <sipa> rcorreia: mining is O(1)
2185 2011-03-02 16:07:37 <ArtForz> yep
2186 2011-03-02 16:07:44 <x6763> anyway, there's your block...contains 34 transactions
2187 2011-03-02 16:07:45 <x6763> lol
2188 2011-03-02 16:08:14 <edcba> still when you can hash 1M/s getwork() shouldn't be a problem
2189 2011-03-02 16:08:39 <sipa> getwork() never is a problem, except for slush, who needs to call it hundreds of times per second :)
2190 2011-03-02 16:08:55 <ArtForz> actually it used to be
2191 2011-03-02 16:09:17 <Diablo-D3> I can also do
2192 2011-03-02 16:09:17 * sipa wonders how you can implement getwork O(2^n)
2193 2011-03-02 16:09:23 <Diablo-D3> http://url/FUCK/YOU
2194 2011-03-02 16:09:24 <Diablo-D3> and it works
2195 2011-03-02 16:09:25 <sipa> oh
2196 2011-03-02 16:09:26 <Diablo-D3> so bam
2197 2011-03-02 16:09:27 <sipa> (n^2)
2198 2011-03-02 16:09:29 <ArtForz> yes
2199 2011-03-02 16:09:50 <ArtForz> iric for every queued tx, it scanned all other queued tx for... something
2200 2011-03-02 16:09:54 <ArtForz> *iirc
2201 2011-03-02 16:10:29 <edcba> maybe to see if yours or dunno what
2202 2011-03-02 16:10:47 <ArtForz> I think it had something to do with orphanity and dPriority calc
2203 2011-03-02 16:10:59 <Diablo-D3> I just realized something!
2204 2011-03-02 16:11:09 <Diablo-D3> I have the worlds first miner that supports https!
2205 2011-03-02 16:11:17 <edcba> lol
2206 2011-03-02 16:11:41 <Diablo-D3> and I have no clue if it works because no pool supports it >_>
2207 2011-03-02 16:11:43 <ArtForz> anyways, it got close to consuming 100% cpu at ~5k queued tx and 5s getwork interval
2208 2011-03-02 16:12:30 <ArtForz> after fixing the algo it was well < 1% cpu with 5k queued tx
2209 2011-03-02 16:14:04 <rgm3> how come generating blocks doesn't work unless i'm online?
2210 2011-03-02 16:14:34 <ArtForz> btw, see how that tx chain starting with the 135k is getting into blocks one by one ?
2211 2011-03-02 16:14:43 <sipa> rgm3: it needs updated information about which transactions to include, and which block to built upon
2212 2011-03-02 16:15:18 discHead has quit (Quit: discHead)
2213 2011-03-02 16:16:22 <luke-jr> so anyhow
2214 2011-03-02 16:16:31 <luke-jr> I traced that large block being split up
2215 2011-03-02 16:16:57 <ArtForz> it's the 400k tx
2216 2011-03-02 16:17:15 <luke-jr> whoever has it did a lot of mining at the end of 2009
2217 2011-03-02 16:17:18 <luke-jr> at difficulty 1
2218 2011-03-02 16:17:24 <luke-jr> that's where it all came from
2219 2011-03-02 16:17:51 <edcba> at diff 1
2220 2011-03-02 16:17:54 <edcba> lucky bastard
2221 2011-03-02 16:18:09 <sipa> remember they are absolutely worthless back then
2222 2011-03-02 16:18:12 <sipa> *were
2223 2011-03-02 16:18:37 <luke-jr> sipa: it should also narrow down the possibilities of WHO it is
2224 2011-03-02 16:18:41 <edcba> :)
2225 2011-03-02 16:19:00 <edcba> ok i know how i will become rich
2226 2011-03-02 16:19:05 <edcba> 1. Create currency
2227 2011-03-02 16:19:10 <sipa> luke-jr: and these are the first transactions done with it?
2228 2011-03-02 16:19:18 <edcba> 2. Wait for currency to acquire value
2229 2011-03-02 16:19:21 <edcba> 3. Profit !
2230 2011-03-02 16:19:34 <sipa> edcba: satoshi beat you to it
2231 2011-03-02 16:19:37 <rgm3> oh, i thought you were gonna say: 1) find whores that will work for BTC. 2) become a pimp.
2232 2011-03-02 16:19:44 <edcba> lol
2233 2011-03-02 16:19:45 <luke-jr> sipa: the first transaction with all the generations, combined into a single 19000 BTC block that is now being split up
2234 2011-03-02 16:19:53 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
2235 2011-03-02 16:20:06 <sipa> when was the 19000 BTC combination?
2236 2011-03-02 16:20:18 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/0f5007ea2f309b3609c08a6caab8986e04e7f064db2e2b68446c27c6e7c52232#o0
2237 2011-03-02 16:21:20 <luke-jr> I suppose that was 19000 BTC sent to someoneâ¦
2238 2011-03-02 16:22:19 Jeroenz0r has joined
2239 2011-03-02 16:22:19 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
2240 2011-03-02 16:22:19 Jeroenz0r has joined
2241 2011-03-02 16:22:29 Lachesis has joined
2242 2011-03-02 16:22:29 <luke-jr> curiously, the splitting seems to be using non-standard tx
2243 2011-03-02 16:23:01 <ArtForz> ?
2244 2011-03-02 16:23:17 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/8513c13ad08de3c17c5130c49bfee2508f389ed9597f565e76fa70ecacff4930#i46171
2245 2011-03-02 16:23:23 Presence has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2246 2011-03-02 16:23:28 <luke-jr> the change is being sent to a Pubkey at least
2247 2011-03-02 16:23:46 <luke-jr> or was
2248 2011-03-02 16:23:47 <bd_> isn't that normal for change txns?
2249 2011-03-02 16:23:52 <sipa> no
2250 2011-03-02 16:23:56 <luke-jr> maybe it used to be
2251 2011-03-02 16:24:06 <luke-jr> it seems logical to use a Pubkey for change
2252 2011-03-02 16:24:15 <luke-jr> but maybe it was changed to an Address for better anonymity
2253 2011-03-02 16:24:19 <bd_> I mean, I see one txout that's using a pubkey, and one that's using a key hash
2254 2011-03-02 16:24:37 <bd_> oh, modern ones use a key hash?
2255 2011-03-02 16:24:38 <ArtForz> yeah, thats nonstandard
2256 2011-03-02 16:24:40 <sipa> only generations use pubkey normally
2257 2011-03-02 16:24:46 <ArtForz> probably a *really* old client
2258 2011-03-02 16:24:48 <sipa> the rest is done to addresses
2259 2011-03-02 16:24:56 <bd_> well, really, the only difference is the hash one is smaller :)
2260 2011-03-02 16:24:59 <edcba> anyway values are enough to distinguish most change or not
2261 2011-03-02 16:25:55 <lfm> generate txn typiclly use pubkey
2262 2011-03-02 16:26:28 <bd_> One of the outputs of that txn has the same pattern too, btw
2263 2011-03-02 16:26:33 <bd_> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/ae21b06bf1560bcbb817bec7a32528d9f8884b5e3d02d68c6f0ac78a267afda9#i46207
2264 2011-03-02 16:27:49 <lfm> also I thin txn ro ip address use pubkey output
2265 2011-03-02 16:28:01 <lfm> also I think txn to ip address use pubkey output
2266 2011-03-02 16:28:11 <ArtForz> used to
2267 2011-03-02 16:28:28 <ArtForz> client makes change use the same addr scheme as output for... quite a while
2268 2011-03-02 16:28:46 <lfm> k havnt checked recently I spoze
2269 2011-03-02 16:29:22 Syke has joined
2270 2011-03-02 16:29:33 <rgm3> it's too bad you have to jump through such hoops to get "OtherOS" on the PS3 'cause its processor and graphics would make a great miner
2271 2011-03-02 16:30:12 <ArtForz> no they wouldnt.
2272 2011-03-02 16:30:51 <rgm3> no? how come they're used in giant renderfarms?
2273 2011-03-02 16:30:59 <ArtForz> because people are stupid
2274 2011-03-02 16:31:08 <rgm3> tru dat
2275 2011-03-02 16:31:16 * rgm3 <--
2276 2011-03-02 16:31:16 <bd_> Well, no, the real reason is because Sony sells the hardware at a loss, so it's a _really good deal_.
2277 2011-03-02 16:31:34 <bd_> When the PS3 first went on sale it was something like $200 below cost
2278 2011-03-02 16:31:40 <ArtForz> errr... nope
2279 2011-03-02 16:31:43 <bd_> really?
2280 2011-03-02 16:31:44 <ArtForz> cell isn't faster than a Phenom II X4
2281 2011-03-02 16:31:52 <bd_> well, today maybe
2282 2011-03-02 16:31:54 <bd_> but at the time
2283 2011-03-02 16:32:03 <ArtForz> yes
2284 2011-03-02 16:32:07 <rgm3> | Nvidia GeForce 7800 Architecture
2285 2011-03-02 16:32:09 <ArtForz> back then it was impressive
2286 2011-03-02 16:32:14 <ArtForz> nowadays... not so much
2287 2011-03-02 16:32:19 <rgm3> well cell is one thing, but that's CPU
2288 2011-03-02 16:32:28 <bd_> right. but if you've already bought 500 PS3s you might as well put them to work :)
2289 2011-03-02 16:32:31 <ArtForz> even worse
2290 2011-03-02 16:32:55 <bk128-Droid> Or EBay them
2291 2011-03-02 16:33:03 <ArtForz> a 550MHz NV47
2292 2011-03-02 16:33:14 <rgm3> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_%27Reality_Synthesizer%27
2293 2011-03-02 16:33:20 <ArtForz> = downclocked 7800GTX
2294 2011-03-02 16:33:30 <rgm3> good to know
2295 2011-03-02 16:33:49 <ArtForz> errr... actually it's simply a 7800GTX 512
2296 2011-03-02 16:34:06 <ArtForz> 32 shaders at 550MHz
2297 2011-03-02 16:34:55 <ArtForz> for comparison, a HD5870 has 1600 shaders at 850 MHz
2298 2011-03-02 16:35:09 <bk128-Droid> Ps3 gpu only had 32?
2299 2011-03-02 16:35:12 <ArtForz> yes
2300 2011-03-02 16:35:22 <ArtForz> back then people didnt use programmable shaders much
2301 2011-03-02 16:35:36 <rgm3> ArtForz -- I've read that you alone account for an unusually high CPU percentage of the network. Do you mind if I ask your average block generation rate at the current difficulty?
2302 2011-03-02 16:35:45 <rgm3> or put simply: how much BTC have you mined?
2303 2011-03-02 16:35:51 <ArtForz> well, not unusually high
2304 2011-03-02 16:36:07 <ArtForz> a bit over 300k total
2305 2011-03-02 16:36:14 * rgm3 grins.
2306 2011-03-02 16:36:17 <rgm3> wtg
2307 2011-03-02 16:36:25 <bk128-Droid> Probably the largest operation :)
2308 2011-03-02 16:36:31 <ArtForz> nah
2309 2011-03-02 16:36:44 <ArtForz> theres at least one guy with about twice my hashrate
2310 2011-03-02 16:36:45 <sipa> ArtForz: you must have something around 30GH/s?
2311 2011-03-02 16:36:48 <ArtForz> yep
2312 2011-03-02 16:36:50 <ArtForz> got ~30Gh/s now
2313 2011-03-02 16:36:59 <sipa> you mean slush? :D
2314 2011-03-02 16:37:05 <bk128-Droid> Some individuals have more?
2315 2011-03-02 16:37:08 <sipa> or actually someone personnaly who has more?
2316 2011-03-02 16:37:08 <ArtForz> nope, single miner
2317 2011-03-02 16:37:11 <sipa> wow
2318 2011-03-02 16:37:14 <edcba> shouldn't be hard
2319 2011-03-02 16:37:19 <rgm3> I have 20.05 BTC to my name. Two bitnickels from the faucet, a bitnickel donation to EFF, and 20 from a paypal transaction.
2320 2011-03-02 16:37:22 <edcba> just buy a lot of gpus
2321 2011-03-02 16:37:26 <ArtForz> yep
2322 2011-03-02 16:37:42 <ArtForz> 1. buy shitload of gpus. 2. ??? 3. profit!
2323 2011-03-02 16:37:43 <edcba> or just use others gpus
2324 2011-03-02 16:37:57 <sipa> 2 would be "design asic"
2325 2011-03-02 16:38:13 <edcba> 2.5 sell gpus
2326 2011-03-02 16:38:18 * luke-jr glares at rgm3 for stealing from faucet
2327 2011-03-02 16:38:38 <ArtForz> still havent finished asic box #2
2328 2011-03-02 16:38:51 <rgm3> luke-jr: hey, it was my first tx! Then I felt guilty about the 2nd one so I donated it.
2329 2011-03-02 16:38:55 <edcba> 1. buy 2. sell higher 3. Profit !
2330 2011-03-02 16:38:57 <sipa> how many are up now, all 200?
2331 2011-03-02 16:39:02 <rgm3> luke-jr: besides, I'm out of unique IPs now :)
2332 2011-03-02 16:39:09 <ArtForz> currently 80
2333 2011-03-02 16:39:40 <luke-jr> rgm3: you'd get off if you donated it back to the faucet :p
2334 2011-03-02 16:39:42 <rgm3> OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND
2335 2011-03-02 16:39:51 <ArtForz> doing more than 8 a day is a fucking PITA
2336 2011-03-02 16:40:01 <rgm3> luke-jr: NO the preciousssss is miiiiine
2337 2011-03-02 16:40:38 <rgm3> ArtForz: Are you able to slot 4 of those at a time into a motherboard?
2338 2011-03-02 16:40:55 <ArtForz> they're connected via USB
2339 2011-03-02 16:41:03 * rgm3 's head explodes
2340 2011-03-02 16:41:14 <rgm3> I've never heard of that...
2341 2011-03-02 16:41:22 <ArtForz> 4 modules = 32 chips per 2U enclosure
2342 2011-03-02 16:41:23 <sipa> USB? it's pretty comon :p
2343 2011-03-02 16:41:29 <rgm3> ha effing ha
2344 2011-03-02 16:41:36 <ArtForz> 200Mhps per chip
2345 2011-03-02 16:41:38 <rgm3> a PCIe over USB
2346 2011-03-02 16:41:44 <sipa> it's not PCIe
2347 2011-03-02 16:41:49 <ArtForz> no PCIe involved
2348 2011-03-02 16:42:06 <rgm3> oh, i mistakenly assumed your graphics cards were Radeon 5970s
2349 2011-03-02 16:42:21 <sipa> yes, they are, but he's not taking about his graphic cards
2350 2011-03-02 16:42:24 <rgm3> looks like I made an ASS out of U and ME, eh? eh? anybody?
2351 2011-03-02 16:42:30 <rgm3> *crickets chirp*
2352 2011-03-02 16:42:43 <ArtForz> I got a bunch of ASICs
2353 2011-03-02 16:42:59 <ArtForz> a bit over 10x as power efficient as 5970s
2354 2011-03-02 16:44:39 <rgm3> commerically available asics?
2355 2011-03-02 16:44:58 <bk128-Droid> Custom made to order
2356 2011-03-02 16:45:00 <ArtForz> well, kinda
2357 2011-03-02 16:45:03 <rgm3> or are you like, FPGA-leet
2358 2011-03-02 16:45:12 <ArtForz> structured ASIC
2359 2011-03-02 16:45:25 <ArtForz> kinda halfway between FPGA and a true ASIC
2360 2011-03-02 16:45:33 <sipa> rgm3: but he did the design himself
2361 2011-03-02 16:46:17 <ArtForz> well, the HDL design and timing sim, the guys at the manufacturer did the actual place&route
2362 2011-03-02 16:46:35 <rgm3> awesome. You should doc that project after you've had enough / BTC block generation becomes unprofitable.
2363 2011-03-02 16:46:59 <sipa> btc block generation will never become unproftable for everyone
2364 2011-03-02 16:47:07 <rgm3> well
2365 2011-03-02 16:47:09 <rgm3> 21M
2366 2011-03-02 16:47:12 <ArtForz> yep
2367 2011-03-02 16:47:14 <validus> just ppl giving up too easy
2368 2011-03-02 16:47:26 <validus> or bad investment
2369 2011-03-02 16:47:36 <sipa> there may come a day when it requires large investments to do it profitable
2370 2011-03-02 16:47:42 <sipa> but it will always be profitable to some
2371 2011-03-02 16:47:47 <rgm3> that's not true...
2372 2011-03-02 16:47:51 <ArtForz> or innovative concepts
2373 2011-03-02 16:47:55 <rgm3> because there will come a day when no BTC can be generated
2374 2011-03-02 16:47:58 <sipa> so?
2375 2011-03-02 16:48:02 <Keefe> txn fees
2376 2011-03-02 16:48:05 <sipa> there will be tx fees
2377 2011-03-02 16:48:05 <rgm3> so... then it's not profitable to mine
2378 2011-03-02 16:48:11 <validus> why isnt it
2379 2011-03-02 16:48:12 <rgm3> oh, i admit that i don't understand tx fees
2380 2011-03-02 16:48:16 <sipa> if it's not profitable to mine
2381 2011-03-02 16:48:18 <sipa> people will stop mining
2382 2011-03-02 16:48:22 <sipa> decreasing difficulty
2383 2011-03-02 16:48:25 <Keefe> but still, it's possible miners will mine for other reasons than direct profit
2384 2011-03-02 16:48:29 <sipa> until it's profitable again
2385 2011-03-02 16:48:32 <ArtForz> yep
2386 2011-03-02 16:48:40 <validus> i dont think its going anywhere
2387 2011-03-02 16:48:48 <Keefe> a bank may run a large mining rig to protect their investment for example
2388 2011-03-02 16:48:52 <ArtForz> and people will find ways to reduce power costs to pretty much nothing
2389 2011-03-02 16:48:55 <Keefe> regardless of profit
2390 2011-03-02 16:48:57 * rgm3 nods. "Or a government."
2391 2011-03-02 16:50:17 <rgm3> ArtForz: It'd be kind of fun to do the math for your setup and figure out how many watt-hours one of your BTC costs. Then you should rig a stationary bicycle up to dynamo and see if you can pedal one out
2392 2011-03-02 16:50:29 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2393 2011-03-02 16:50:30 <bk128-Droid> Do you think any supercomputers could hash faster than the network now?
2394 2011-03-02 16:50:34 <ArtForz> yes
2395 2011-03-02 16:50:52 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I want to get one of those nvidia home supercomputers
2396 2011-03-02 16:51:17 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|It was like 8 dual-core GPU cards and a quad core processor w/ 16gb of ram
2397 2011-03-02 16:51:17 <knotwork> maybe some day to keep costs down of keeping the network secure vs supercomputers
2398 2011-03-02 16:51:27 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I think it was like $8,000
2399 2011-03-02 16:51:29 <knotwork> someone will make cheap mining rigs low power usage
2400 2011-03-02 16:51:45 <rgm3> it'd have to be someone who could design and order ASICs
2401 2011-03-02 16:51:47 <ArtForz> nameless|: off by $10k or so?
2402 2011-03-02 16:51:47 echelon has joined
2403 2011-03-02 16:51:49 <knotwork> as long as it can be kept margianally profitable people will still do it at home
2404 2011-03-02 16:51:58 <ArtForz> a single tesla 20xx is like $2.5k ...
2405 2011-03-02 16:52:00 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I don't remember
2406 2011-03-02 16:52:07 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Oh, that cheap?
2407 2011-03-02 16:52:08 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|damn
2408 2011-03-02 16:52:20 <rgm3> well and i'm sure people do it on CPUs/GPUs where they don't pay for power, like at work.
2409 2011-03-02 16:52:27 <ArtForz> and about half as fast as a 6970
2410 2011-03-02 16:52:39 gavinandresen has joined
2411 2011-03-02 16:52:40 <validus> im on budget at this apt. my bill stays the same
2412 2011-03-02 16:52:48 <validus> so power is least of my worries when i get a new pc lol
2413 2011-03-02 16:53:06 <ArtForz> well, but that doesnt scale ;)
2414 2011-03-02 16:53:19 <bk128-Droid> Unless your breakers start flipping
2415 2011-03-02 16:53:26 <ArtForz> beyond 4-5kW heat kinda becomes an issue
2416 2011-03-02 16:53:43 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|ArtForz: what?
2417 2011-03-02 16:53:44 <validus> id get checked for pot
2418 2011-03-02 16:53:48 <validus> then they would move on
2419 2011-03-02 16:53:56 <validus> and thats only if i raise suspicion at the power co
2420 2011-03-02 16:54:16 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|validus: DO IT
2421 2011-03-02 16:54:23 <validus> i grew one plant here
2422 2011-03-02 16:54:27 <validus> no probs lol
2423 2011-03-02 16:54:30 <rgm3> do you think that after all BTC have been generated the block difficulty will be lowered so that no-fee-TXs will "clear" quicker?
2424 2011-03-02 16:54:31 <validus> bill went up $1? i think
2425 2011-03-02 16:54:40 <ArtForz> well, beyond there you actually have to set up some cooling
2426 2011-03-02 16:54:44 <sipa> rgm3: we're talking 2100 here
2427 2011-03-02 16:54:50 <validus> well ya i realize that id have to have cooling
2428 2011-03-02 16:54:58 <validus> i just meant the actual power consumption
2429 2011-03-02 16:55:00 <rgm3> sipa: hmm?
2430 2011-03-02 16:55:15 <ArtForz> unless you want your apt to double as a sauna or something...
2431 2011-03-02 16:55:17 <sipa> rgm3: i don't dare to do any prediction about what will happen 90 years from now
2432 2011-03-02 16:55:27 <sipa> rgm3: but the intention is: no
2433 2011-03-02 16:55:28 <luke-jr> rgm3: by that time, there won't be any no-fee tx
2434 2011-03-02 16:55:33 <validus> thats when my redneck senses kick in
2435 2011-03-02 16:55:42 <rgm3> oh wow, I read the document wrong.
2436 2011-03-02 16:55:43 <validus> like build an enclosure with heavy fans and running tube out
2437 2011-03-02 16:55:53 <rgm3> I thought it would happen "soon" -- like 10-15 years
2438 2011-03-02 16:55:55 <validus> ventilation. air flow. use other things besides air
2439 2011-03-02 16:56:09 <validus> lots and lots of ideas and possible solutions lol
2440 2011-03-02 16:56:16 <luke-jr> rgm3: generation will drop to 25 BTC soon
2441 2011-03-02 16:56:29 <ArtForz> "soon"
2442 2011-03-02 16:57:23 <luke-jr> ArtForz: compared to 2100, very soon
2443 2011-03-02 16:57:28 <ArtForz> yes
2444 2011-03-02 16:57:42 <rgm3> luke-jr: I'm sure there would be some no-fee tx. Like if we were neighbors and i were paying you directly for fixing my fence.
2445 2011-03-02 16:57:59 <ArtForz> compared to +infinity... pretty much instantly ;)
2446 2011-03-02 16:58:33 <luke-jr> rgm3: if I wanted to wait months for payment maybe
2447 2011-03-02 16:58:51 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2448 2011-03-02 16:59:25 <luke-jr> rgm3: by 2100, miners won't accept tx without fees
2449 2011-03-02 16:59:30 <luke-jr> rgm3: some already don't
2450 2011-03-02 17:00:09 <ArtForz> "some" as in "luke-jr and pretty much nobody else"
2451 2011-03-02 17:00:14 <luke-jr> :D
2452 2011-03-02 17:00:58 <rgm3> well that doesn't sound like my utopian vision of e-cash then... fees?
2453 2011-03-02 17:01:13 <ArtForz> yes
2454 2011-03-02 17:01:38 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki transaction fees
2455 2011-03-02 17:01:38 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees | Dec 19, 2010 ... Transaction fees may be included with any transfer of bitcoins from one address to another. At the moment, many transactions are typically ...
2456 2011-03-02 17:01:41 <nanotube> rgm3: --^
2457 2011-03-02 17:01:44 <gavinandresen> I predict all transactions will carry fees, but end-users will never see them. They'll be hidden by merchants, processors, etc
2458 2011-03-02 17:01:46 <rgm3> ;;bc,wiki transaction fees
2459 2011-03-02 17:01:46 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees | Dec 19, 2010 ... Transaction fees may be included with any transfer of bitcoins from one address to another. At the moment, many transactions are typically ...
2460 2011-03-02 17:01:57 * rgm3 pats gribble onnna head.
2461 2011-03-02 17:02:08 <rgm3> thx
2462 2011-03-02 17:02:14 glassresistor has joined
2463 2011-03-02 17:02:14 <nanotube> :)
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2466 2011-03-02 17:10:07 EvanR-work is now known as EvanR
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2469 2011-03-02 17:10:41 xelister has joined
2470 2011-03-02 17:11:16 xelister is now known as retsilex
2471 2011-03-02 17:11:24 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: your miner produces 13 MHash/sec
2472 2011-03-02 17:11:26 <retsilex> on a 5770
2473 2011-03-02 17:11:34 AmpEater has joined
2474 2011-03-02 17:11:36 * retsilex hits Diablo-D3 with an failbanner
2475 2011-03-02 17:12:23 <retsilex> the current version. version from 2010-10 produces full 160 Mhash/sec as expected
2476 2011-03-02 17:13:34 * rgm3 gets 12 Mh/s using Diablo on mac pro.
2477 2011-03-02 17:13:41 <validus> i think its user error instead
2478 2011-03-02 17:13:47 <validus> lol
2479 2011-03-02 17:13:58 <retsilex> validus: works fine with older version of miner
2480 2011-03-02 17:14:07 <validus> i was just talkin shit :P
2481 2011-03-02 17:14:12 <bk128> retsilex: you have a driver issue
2482 2011-03-02 17:14:20 <JFK911> update java
2483 2011-03-02 17:14:34 <retsilex> bk128: but which issue
2484 2011-03-02 17:14:36 <bk128> no, not java. video driver or sdk
2485 2011-03-02 17:14:47 <validus> thats first thing id go for
2486 2011-03-02 17:14:51 <retsilex> ubuntu's driver + 2.2
2487 2011-03-02 17:14:55 <ArtForz> try sacrificing a chicken
2488 2011-03-02 17:14:58 <validus> then look at others. or see if any other users r unning same thing you are
2489 2011-03-02 17:15:05 <retsilex> yeap, but too bad that new version requires dicking around with this ati shit
2490 2011-03-02 17:15:14 <bk128> retsilex: gotta run 2.1
2491 2011-03-02 17:15:18 <validus> oh you thought ati in linux was a simple?
2492 2011-03-02 17:15:19 <validus> LOL
2493 2011-03-02 17:15:30 <validus> thats what made me hate ati was driver support
2494 2011-03-02 17:15:37 <validus> but i might get another due to mining and price
2495 2011-03-02 17:15:46 <retsilex> RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEON
2496 2011-03-02 17:16:01 <validus> no rage was that 4 days it took me to fix it and i did those almost solid
2497 2011-03-02 17:16:09 <retsilex> the new series of Radeon, with 'even better' drivers. Since 2011 Q2 in good shops near you
2498 2011-03-02 17:16:11 <validus> i think i cussed out my pc prob 18 times +
2499 2011-03-02 17:16:15 <bk128> how much do you think 6960's are going to be when they come out?
2500 2011-03-02 17:16:21 <jgarzik> I hate meetings. I think Satan invented the concept of a meeting.
2501 2011-03-02 17:16:24 <validus> i believe better drivers when ati fires their dev team
2502 2011-03-02 17:16:25 <bk128> 6990's*
2503 2011-03-02 17:16:50 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: no it doesnt.
2504 2011-03-02 17:16:53 <JFK911> are you a driver programmer validus ?
2505 2011-03-02 17:16:54 <Diablo-D3> it sounds like you fucked up
2506 2011-03-02 17:16:56 <validus> i say 600 - 700
2507 2011-03-02 17:17:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that's impossible, isn't it?
2508 2011-03-02 17:17:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the sender (aka customer) has to cover the fee
2509 2011-03-02 17:17:13 <Diablo-D3> 10.9 through 10.11 + 2.1, and make sure cpu mining is off
2510 2011-03-02 17:17:13 <validus> givin a gtx 580 is 550+, and the 6990 supposed to destroy it
2511 2011-03-02 17:17:20 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: "it doesnt" do what?
2512 2011-03-02 17:17:31 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: it doesnt get 13 mhash/sec.
2513 2011-03-02 17:17:38 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: what's wrong with 10.12?
2514 2011-03-02 17:17:45 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: you want like a screenshot?
2515 2011-03-02 17:17:48 <validus> JFK911: actually i fixed my driver problem and anyone who says those drivers are fantastic has never dealt with a problem
2516 2011-03-02 17:17:54 <retsilex> it says it does 13000 something khash
2517 2011-03-02 17:17:55 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I think most senders in the future won't be talking to the bitcoin network directly, they'll be using some type of service.
2518 2011-03-02 17:18:01 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: it sometimes randomly crashes for a few users, not sure why
2519 2011-03-02 17:18:07 <JFK911> validus: cool what was your problem
2520 2011-03-02 17:18:13 <validus> ati
2521 2011-03-02 17:18:13 <bk128> Diablo-D3: I have to restart it every day or it locks up
2522 2011-03-02 17:18:14 <sipa> luke-jr: imagine is mybitcoin sent required tx fees on all merchant spending, not subtracting it from users's accounts, but charging a fee for adding btc to it
2523 2011-03-02 17:18:14 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: yes, and it has idiot detection code
2524 2011-03-02 17:18:15 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: works for me, unlike older versions
2525 2011-03-02 17:18:15 <retsilex> so unless you switched to tonal hash
2526 2011-03-02 17:18:18 <validus> lol
2527 2011-03-02 17:18:21 <JFK911> oh
2528 2011-03-02 17:18:32 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: why, your sister again tried ordering moar radeons? :>
2529 2011-03-02 17:18:34 <JFK911> sounds like a qualified analysis & justified blame
2530 2011-03-02 17:18:47 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: you do realize I dont even have a sister, right?
2531 2011-03-02 17:18:50 amiller has joined
2532 2011-03-02 17:18:56 <bk128> Diablo-D3: java version "1.6.0_18" OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8.3) (6b18-1.8.3-2+squeeze1)
2533 2011-03-02 17:18:56 <bk128> OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 16.0-b13, mixed mode)
2534 2011-03-02 17:19:01 <bk128> Diablo-D3: think that's why it's crashing?
2535 2011-03-02 17:19:03 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: well your mom is not really honest =)
2536 2011-03-02 17:19:06 <validus> actually it was considering mplayer vaapi wasnt released till dec 2010 to get hardware accelleration to work in mplayer with ati cards. and we've had this convo before
2537 2011-03-02 17:19:16 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: you reallize we not care do you really? ;)
2538 2011-03-02 17:19:17 <Diablo-D3> bk128: its not a java issue, its a driver issue.
2539 2011-03-02 17:19:18 <validus> on top of editing files. changing shit for new gcc, and doing everything known to god
2540 2011-03-02 17:19:28 <bk128> Diablo-D3: okay. any way to troubleshoot it?
2541 2011-03-02 17:19:35 <validus> when i say 4 days i dont mean a few hrs and sleep it off. i mean like almost 72 hours straight sleep 4 hrs and continue
2542 2011-03-02 17:19:39 <Diablo-D3> bk128: nope. but it does it more for 10.12 users.
2543 2011-03-02 17:19:39 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: Java is always the problem, when Java is involved :D
2544 2011-03-02 17:19:52 <bk128> Diablo-D3: it works fine for like 30 hours then just locks up
2545 2011-03-02 17:20:03 <Diablo-D3> bk128: yup, driver issue.
2546 2011-03-02 17:20:07 <validus> and i know quite a few linux programmers, graphics ppl, etc, and they were helping me wtih it also
2547 2011-03-02 17:20:16 <validus> so obviously you never dealt with driver problems in linux
2548 2011-03-02 17:20:16 <JFK911> cool its always worked fine for me, but you sound pretty sure that there is no user error involved
2549 2011-03-02 17:20:19 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: what version of my miner are you using, anyhow?
2550 2011-03-02 17:20:24 <JFK911> yeah it took 5 minutes to build/install drivers
2551 2011-03-02 17:20:28 <JFK911> on fedora
2552 2011-03-02 17:20:29 <luke-jr> bk128: are you using 2.6.37?
2553 2011-03-02 17:20:31 <validus> just wait till it fucks up
2554 2011-03-02 17:20:31 <JFK911> i failed the first time
2555 2011-03-02 17:20:33 <JFK911> know why?
2556 2011-03-02 17:20:35 <bk128> Diablo-D3: I just installed the standard debian fglrx. what should i try instead?
2557 2011-03-02 17:20:36 <validus> you'll love it
2558 2011-03-02 17:20:39 <Diablo-D3> nan 2.6.37 is fail
2559 2011-03-02 17:20:39 <JFK911> I didn't read the fkn documentation
2560 2011-03-02 17:20:41 <validus> this was no user error
2561 2011-03-02 17:20:42 <JFK911> after I did that
2562 2011-03-02 17:20:43 <luke-jr> bk128: there is no such thing
2563 2011-03-02 17:20:45 <JFK911> everything was 100% great
2564 2011-03-02 17:20:47 <Diablo-D3> bk128: there is no such thing
2565 2011-03-02 17:20:48 <JFK911> better than Xorg
2566 2011-03-02 17:20:49 <validus> this was no support error
2567 2011-03-02 17:20:56 <Diablo-D3> bk128: you probably mean 10.9, which should be fine
2568 2011-03-02 17:20:57 <validus> why. cuz of lacking driver support
2569 2011-03-02 17:21:02 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: 2.6.37 is the minimum requirements for my PC
2570 2011-03-02 17:21:12 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: 2.6.37 is fucking horrid shit
2571 2011-03-02 17:21:15 <validus> hardware accelleration not being used cuz i didnt write my own graphics driver to use it? pfft
2572 2011-03-02 17:21:16 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: 2.6.37 is the minimum requirements for my PC
2573 2011-03-02 17:21:17 <bk128> how do i find out what version i have?
2574 2011-03-02 17:21:22 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: git version does 13 Mhash, old 2010-10 does normal 170 on this box (ubuntu + default fglrx + 2.2)
2575 2011-03-02 17:21:24 <luke-jr> 2.6.36 is unlikely to even boot
2576 2011-03-02 17:21:25 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: it doesnt make it any less horrid shit
2577 2011-03-02 17:21:31 <bk128> uname -a 2.6.32-5
2578 2011-03-02 17:21:35 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: works for me
2579 2011-03-02 17:21:46 <validus> intel gma and nvidia workin fine. ati woudlnt. that points to an ati problem and they are known for their driver problems on top of it
2580 2011-03-02 17:21:47 <validus> google it
2581 2011-03-02 17:21:47 <luke-jr> and 10.12 is designed for 2.6.37
2582 2011-03-02 17:21:50 <Diablo-D3> bk128: no one cares about your kernel =P
2583 2011-03-02 17:21:54 <Diablo-D3> and 10.12 is shit.
2584 2011-03-02 17:21:55 <validus> their gettin better but its not perfect yet
2585 2011-03-02 17:22:00 <Diablo-D3> why do we keep going in circles here?
2586 2011-03-02 17:22:06 <luke-jr> validus: ATi has always been better than nVidia
2587 2011-03-02 17:22:10 <validus> whatever
2588 2011-03-02 17:22:11 <validus> fanboy
2589 2011-03-02 17:22:12 <JFK911> validus: yeah you're also unrealistic to expect companies to stay on top of some haphazardly-developed amateur operating system that's always changing and most of its branches have no quality or change control
2590 2011-03-02 17:22:13 <retsilex> luke-jr: lol? at what.
2591 2011-03-02 17:22:19 <retsilex> luke-jr: Ati drivers ALWAYS HAD SUCKEED
2592 2011-03-02 17:22:22 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: are you doing something stupid like -w 128?
2593 2011-03-02 17:22:26 hendi has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2594 2011-03-02 17:22:28 <retsilex> probably
2595 2011-03-02 17:22:29 <validus> unrealistic!!!! IT WAS A 700 FUCKING VIDEO CARD THAT HAD PROBLEMS
2596 2011-03-02 17:22:30 <luke-jr> retsilex: at least ATi *has* drivers
2597 2011-03-02 17:22:38 <bk128> retsilex: also do -f 1
2598 2011-03-02 17:22:39 <validus> $
2599 2011-03-02 17:22:41 <JFK911> $700 video card
2600 2011-03-02 17:22:46 <JFK911> you hsould have spent $99 for windows 7 license
2601 2011-03-02 17:22:47 <validus> tons of games failed
2602 2011-03-02 17:22:51 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck pays $700 for a video card?
2603 2011-03-02 17:22:54 <validus> i didnt buy that garbage
2604 2011-03-02 17:22:54 <luke-jr> validus: nVidia forces Linux to reverse engineer them from scratch
2605 2011-03-02 17:22:59 <Diablo-D3> nvidia fanboys fail as usual
2606 2011-03-02 17:23:00 <validus> good luke i dont care
2607 2011-03-02 17:23:05 <validus> im not a fanboy at all
2608 2011-03-02 17:23:10 <validus> i have an ati card now
2609 2011-03-02 17:23:15 <luke-jr> validus: you obviously are, since you don't care about the facts :P
2610 2011-03-02 17:23:16 <bk128> you're all fanboys if you're arguing about this
2611 2011-03-02 17:23:29 <validus> waa nvidia is the devil thats all i hear hafl the time
2612 2011-03-02 17:23:30 <validus> good for them
2613 2011-03-02 17:23:43 <validus> they both have their problems but to say my ati driver problem was user error was ludacris
2614 2011-03-02 17:23:47 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: dont use anything but -w 64 with arts kernel
2615 2011-03-02 17:23:56 <JFK911> at least i can spell ludicrous
2616 2011-03-02 17:23:56 <retsilex> luke-jr: nvidia does not have drivers?
2617 2011-03-02 17:24:02 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: oh. heh
2618 2011-03-02 17:24:05 <retsilex> :D
2619 2011-03-02 17:24:06 <validus> oh this is a spelling bee now?
2620 2011-03-02 17:24:17 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: this is also why Ive set -w 64 to the default.
2621 2011-03-02 17:24:19 <validus> dont troll me with elitism bullshit
2622 2011-03-02 17:24:20 <luke-jr> retsilex: no, Linux didn't have drivers for nVidia cards for a long time
2623 2011-03-02 17:24:32 <JFK911> it's not elitism. who hasn't finished high school?
2624 2011-03-02 17:24:39 <validus> ecxuse me?
2625 2011-03-02 17:24:50 <validus> oh werent you the person taking financial advice from 4chan?
2626 2011-03-02 17:24:57 <validus> and whining cuz they said something bad. i know it started with a J
2627 2011-03-02 17:25:00 <validus> that sounds like you
2628 2011-03-02 17:25:08 <JFK911> lol now you don't know what you're talking about
2629 2011-03-02 17:25:10 <validus> my ignore list got wiped or else id know for sure
2630 2011-03-02 17:25:26 <validus> and you tried yelling at me in otc cuz i was discussing video cards!?!??!?!
2631 2011-03-02 17:25:35 <validus> and your not being elitist??
2632 2011-03-02 17:25:39 <JFK911> I've never been in otc.
2633 2011-03-02 17:25:39 <validus> go fuck off dude for real
2634 2011-03-02 17:25:43 <validus> ignored
2635 2011-03-02 17:25:52 <validus> i rather talk to luke and hear him , he's at least funny
2636 2011-03-02 17:26:05 <JFK911> I also don't need financial advice, because I don't buy $700 video cards and other things I don't know how to use :)
2637 2011-03-02 17:26:12 <luke-jr> validus: î§î§î§î§î§î§î§î§î§î§î§î§
2638 2011-03-02 17:26:21 <validus> at least your trolls have purpose sometimes
2639 2011-03-02 17:26:22 <validus> :P
2640 2011-03-02 17:27:10 <validus> i cant wait til they have a problem and get to troubleshoot
2641 2011-03-02 17:27:14 <validus> then the joy begins
2642 2011-03-02 17:28:01 <JFK911> Lol @ wasting 4 days on video drivers
2643 2011-03-02 17:29:00 <rgm3> ArtForz: Have you ever performed a service or sold a physical good for BTC?
2644 2011-03-02 17:31:06 <x6763> he's probably collected a few bitcoins for his block generation services
2645 2011-03-02 17:31:22 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: hmm still it acts worse then previous. getting more like 140 M
2646 2011-03-02 17:32:11 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: it uses 100% cpu (1 core 2.5 Ghz) perhaps it is the bottleneck. especially uses all cpu on -f 2, less on -f 120
2647 2011-03-02 17:33:15 <retsilex> rgm3: I can perform a magic trick for you for 0.5 BTC, send them to 1AodYtTRy8H2vvWAvgLiG3RjJW4ExJFFx6
2648 2011-03-02 17:33:45 * nanotube predicts magic trick: "voila! your bitcoins now belong to me!"
2649 2011-03-02 17:33:51 * rgm3 laughs
2650 2011-03-02 17:33:54 <retsilex> nanotube: no
2651 2011-03-02 17:34:16 <retsilex> "hokus-pokus, your money now DISSAPEARS! Tadam."
2652 2011-03-02 17:34:26 <ArtForz> rgm3: yes
2653 2011-03-02 17:34:27 <nanotube> bah, i was close.
2654 2011-03-02 17:34:28 <rgm3> if a block contains many txs, does it take longer to generate than a block that contains few?
2655 2011-03-02 17:34:35 <nanotube> rgm3: no
2656 2011-03-02 17:34:36 <retsilex> rgm3: no
2657 2011-03-02 17:34:42 <edcba> and now retsilex disappears :)
2658 2011-03-02 17:34:45 <rgm3> cool
2659 2011-03-02 17:34:52 <retsilex> edcba: with your girlfriend to mexico =)
2660 2011-03-02 17:35:00 <ArtForz> lol
2661 2011-03-02 17:35:49 <edcba> i knew btc has to be rebased
2662 2011-03-02 17:36:12 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: erm, dude, if you're getting 100% cpu, you're not o n2.1
2663 2011-03-02 17:36:23 <edcba> 0.5btc and he flees to mexico
2664 2011-03-02 17:36:34 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: yeah Im on 2.2
2665 2011-03-02 17:36:51 <Diablo-D3> then dont do that.
2666 2011-03-02 17:37:04 <retsilex> what colours of pens should I have while using your miner?
2667 2011-03-02 17:37:07 <retsilex> pants
2668 2011-03-02 17:37:23 * BurtyB had problems with 2.3 switched to 2.1 and it's now using like 0% cpu :)
2669 2011-03-02 17:37:24 <ArtForz> red
2670 2011-03-02 17:37:25 <lfm> red
2671 2011-03-02 17:37:28 <retsilex> well urmom says black suit me but I dont want to take any chances
2672 2011-03-02 17:37:31 <lfm> hehe
2673 2011-03-02 17:37:33 <retsilex> (urall mom)
2674 2011-03-02 17:37:50 <retsilex> oh men ok I will get 2.1 :<
2675 2011-03-02 17:38:02 <retsilex> is that other miner also so sensitive to so exact sdk versions?
2676 2011-03-02 17:38:52 <retsilex> How ati can make 2.2 worse then 2.1, and 2.3 worse then 2.2
2677 2011-03-02 17:39:00 <retsilex> what are they doing
2678 2011-03-02 17:39:02 <ArtForz> they're ati
2679 2011-03-02 17:39:18 <validus> nope artforz. didnt you hear its all user error unless your a ati programmer
2680 2011-03-02 17:39:24 <retsilex> yea but when developing 2.3 they are like half year under Amd's whip, so ?
2681 2011-03-02 17:39:36 <ArtForz> they broke crossfire *gaming* for 4. fucking. driver. releases.
2682 2011-03-02 17:39:44 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2683 2011-03-02 17:39:45 <lfm> ati is hardware corp, their software sucks
2684 2011-03-02 17:39:45 <validus> oh a driver problem? no way
2685 2011-03-02 17:39:54 <validus> cant wait til lthat jackass's fedora breaks
2686 2011-03-02 17:39:58 <retsilex> ArtForz: interesting, more on that story? which versions
2687 2011-03-02 17:40:00 <validus> i hope its the graphics to
2688 2011-03-02 17:40:13 <validus> make fun of me for fixing a problem pfft
2689 2011-03-02 17:40:23 <ArtForz> iirc that was the later 9.somethings
2690 2011-03-02 17:40:23 <retsilex> LOOK MOM I can write drivers too! wroooom wroooom.
2691 2011-03-02 17:40:25 <validus> thast like the dude making fun of me for going to college. big man tehy are
2692 2011-03-02 17:40:28 <validus> they*
2693 2011-03-02 17:40:40 <validus> no one here btw
2694 2011-03-02 17:40:41 <validus> lol
2695 2011-03-02 17:40:46 <retsilex> LOOK DADY I'm releasssing! Compiles??? greate! *ship-it* *click*
2696 2011-03-02 17:40:56 <ArtForz> just look for the 100-page "why is my 4870x2 so slow" threads
2697 2011-03-02 17:41:05 <rgm3> okay i don't understand "transaction size"
2698 2011-03-02 17:41:10 <validus> nah i believe you
2699 2011-03-02 17:41:23 <validus> ive dealt with my own things. but apparently im retarded and i cant see their justfication
2700 2011-03-02 17:41:25 <rgm3> after reading the "Fees" section, how come some transactions are larger (in bytes)
2701 2011-03-02 17:41:26 <validus> i guess im just dumb
2702 2011-03-02 17:41:27 <validus> lol
2703 2011-03-02 17:41:40 <ArtForz> basically while adding 5xxx crossfire support... they broke 4xxx crossfire support
2704 2011-03-02 17:41:53 <retsilex> 2.4 will eat your cat
2705 2011-03-02 17:41:54 <ArtForz> and it takes about 3 months for a bugfix to make it into the release driver
2706 2011-03-02 17:42:04 <validus> if they quit racing for #'s and high up on the totem pole, they would do alot better
2707 2011-03-02 17:42:08 <validus> thats what it seems anyways
2708 2011-03-02 17:42:26 <retsilex> validus: probably most noob gamerfags just masturbates to the numbers
2709 2011-03-02 17:42:31 <validus> most do
2710 2011-03-02 17:42:35 <lfm> so 2.5 might be ok?
2711 2011-03-02 17:42:42 <ArtForz> yeah
2712 2011-03-02 17:42:51 <ArtForz> unless they break something else
2713 2011-03-02 17:42:55 <retsilex> lfm: 2.5 will overwrite your system partition. With windows. Vista.
2714 2011-03-02 17:42:56 <validus> the #'s are a marketing ploy
2715 2011-03-02 17:43:03 rli has left ()
2716 2011-03-02 17:43:16 <validus> but i game also so i lookup actual results before i go making decisions, and thats not factoring in price
2717 2011-03-02 17:43:36 <ArtForz> thats one thing I have to hand to nvidia, at least their drivers suck consistently
2718 2011-03-02 17:43:37 <validus> i have a habit of being very indepth with it
2719 2011-03-02 17:44:04 <lfm> retsilex: thats ok I dont have any vista systems
2720 2011-03-02 17:44:15 <retsilex> Compiles? Awesome! Release it!
2721 2011-03-02 17:44:21 <validus> why would you run vista. at least get 7. its just vista working
2722 2011-03-02 17:44:23 <retsilex> Runs on the CEO box? Wow! SHIP IT
2723 2011-03-02 17:44:24 <validus> with less system requirements
2724 2011-03-02 17:45:17 <retsilex> "everyone should be running our latest model by now"
2725 2011-03-02 17:45:37 <ArtForz> I think ATIs release cycle is 1. compile 2. release 3. test 4. wait for bug reports to roll in 5. go to 1 6. fix bugs from 3 and 4
2726 2011-03-02 17:45:44 <validus> lol
2727 2011-03-02 17:45:55 <validus> that is the best way to get testing done. but it sucks ass
2728 2011-03-02 17:45:58 <ArtForz> at least it used to be
2729 2011-03-02 17:46:05 <ArtForz> with the old 3-moth release cycle
2730 2011-03-02 17:46:31 <ArtForz> then they realized waiting for 3 and 4 isnt really needed
2731 2011-03-02 17:46:53 <validus> ya its more release, recall, rerelease, drop cards, release
2732 2011-03-02 17:47:09 <ArtForz> don't forget "relase 7 hotfixes in 4 days"
2733 2011-03-02 17:47:15 <validus> lol
2734 2011-03-02 17:47:16 <retsilex> validus: you can't recall card ase on shitty drivers.. or can you
2735 2011-03-02 17:47:27 <ArtForz> iirc that was 10.12
2736 2011-03-02 17:47:35 <validus> ive never recalled a card or anything like that
2737 2011-03-02 17:47:40 <validus> or sent one back
2738 2011-03-02 17:47:49 <validus> i just make do and get it working despite the time it might take
2739 2011-03-02 17:48:37 <validus> im frugal. i dont care if it was a $50 video card. the point was i bought it. i wasnt going to fork out money for another one and i did get it working in the end
2740 2011-03-02 17:48:48 <ArtForz> yep
2741 2011-03-02 17:48:49 <validus> so i coudl care less if some lil fag is gonna try to make fun of me for being smart and working on things
2742 2011-03-02 17:48:56 <retsilex> >_>
2743 2011-03-02 17:49:02 <validus> wait till his lil gay hat box breaks im going to love it
2744 2011-03-02 17:49:14 <ArtForz> well, a $50 gpu is already overkill for most interesting stuff
2745 2011-03-02 17:49:22 <validus> its all i had
2746 2011-03-02 17:49:25 <validus> still got it now
2747 2011-03-02 17:49:29 <validus> ati 4550 lol
2748 2011-03-02 17:49:47 <ArtForz> you know the scary part?
2749 2011-03-02 17:49:49 <validus> i dont understand making fun of someone getting things to work
2750 2011-03-02 17:49:55 <ArtForz> thats probably still faster than the Ps3s GPU ...
2751 2011-03-02 17:50:08 <validus> hmm tossup
2752 2011-03-02 17:50:13 <validus> some games run awesome some do not
2753 2011-03-02 17:50:24 <validus> nba2k11 runs just fine. star wars sith unleashed 2. horrible
2754 2011-03-02 17:50:29 <validus> but that was cuz it was a bad port
2755 2011-03-02 17:50:51 <validus> i was surpised conviction ran well but that was way to easy :/
2756 2011-03-02 17:51:14 <ArtForz> yep, crappy games force GPU upgrades *stares at oblivion*
2757 2011-03-02 17:51:29 <validus> i love oblivion
2758 2011-03-02 17:51:33 <validus> i dindt get to play that till 2008
2759 2011-03-02 17:52:06 <validus> had no pc in sales so 8 years id id without lol
2760 2011-03-02 17:52:11 <validus> i did*
2761 2011-03-02 17:52:52 jackmcbarn has joined
2762 2011-03-02 17:53:07 <ArtForz> btw, imo thats a major problem with consoles, hardware improves way faster than normal console release cycles
2763 2011-03-02 17:53:18 Lachesis has joined
2764 2011-03-02 17:53:23 <validus> ya why i cant justify the cost of some things
2765 2011-03-02 17:53:44 <validus> i was thinking about a wii just cuz i can softmod it so easy
2766 2011-03-02 17:54:03 <Lachesis> my bitcoind won't connect to the network; how can i debug? debug log shows nothing interesting
2767 2011-03-02 17:54:29 <retsilex> ArtForz: hm? how is that problem for game devels.. well, you can just assume, on reall release date customsrs will have same hardware but 50% faster? ;)
2768 2011-03-02 17:55:36 <ArtForz> well, not for nintendo devs, they're used to making do with very limited hardware ;)
2769 2011-03-02 17:56:41 <ArtForz> but it's a major problem for former PC game devs, you simply dont get all the nice things modern graphics hardware provides
2770 2011-03-02 17:56:43 <retsilex> hm... just make config options? add Ultra setting with x2 more objects particles textures and all? ;)
2771 2011-03-02 17:57:27 <ArtForz> so a) your PC port looks shitty compared to other games or b) your console version looks shitty compared to the PC version
2772 2011-03-02 17:58:44 <validus> you know whats funny. the nintendo ds is the #1 pirated console period
2773 2011-03-02 17:58:53 <validus> records were broke with it. but also the one pulling in most the money
2774 2011-03-02 17:59:19 <ArtForz> well, probbaly because nintendo actually knows what they're doing ;)
2775 2011-03-02 17:59:25 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2776 2011-03-02 18:00:03 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2777 2011-03-02 18:00:09 <ArtForz> good gameplay can easily make up for bad graphics
2778 2011-03-02 18:00:15 <validus> my nes is hooked up now
2779 2011-03-02 18:00:18 <validus> its the only console i have
2780 2011-03-02 18:00:28 <ArtForz> I still fire up elite once in a while ;)
2781 2011-03-02 18:00:39 <luke-jr> "Under Microsoft Windows 7, Windows reviews have said the Intel Core i5 2500K is comparable to the discrete NVIDIA GeForce 210 and ATI/AMD Radeon HD 5450 graphics cards"
2782 2011-03-02 18:01:06 <validus> i was playing zelda the other day
2783 2011-03-02 18:01:09 <validus> never gets old
2784 2011-03-02 18:01:13 <ArtForz> luke-jr: imo... not quite
2785 2011-03-02 18:01:29 <ArtForz> shader-wise it's maybe half a 5450
2786 2011-03-02 18:01:42 <ArtForz> but intel offloads a lot of shit to the CPU
2787 2011-03-02 18:01:49 retsilex is now known as xelister
2788 2011-03-02 18:02:10 <ArtForz> don't remember the review site
2789 2011-03-02 18:03:04 <ArtForz> they had nice fps *and* cpu usage graphs for various games comparing discrete cards and i5 IGP
2790 2011-03-02 18:03:05 <JFK911> none of those intel things support compute do the
2791 2011-03-02 18:03:07 <JFK911> &they
2792 2011-03-02 18:03:07 <gribble> Error: "they" is not a valid command.
2793 2011-03-02 18:03:51 <luke-jr> JFK911: not officially, but it does work with Stream SDK
2794 2011-03-02 18:03:58 <luke-jr> only like 600 kH/s IIRC tho
2795 2011-03-02 18:04:04 <JFK911> oh! i'm surprised to hear that
2796 2011-03-02 18:04:06 <luke-jr> and it locks the system up eventually
2797 2011-03-02 18:04:12 <JFK911> heh
2798 2011-03-02 18:04:13 <Lachesis> how recent does a block have to be for the network to accept it?
2799 2011-03-02 18:04:24 <ArtForz> Lachesis: recent?
2800 2011-03-02 18:04:24 <luke-jr> Lachesis: it has to be current
2801 2011-03-02 18:04:26 <Lachesis> i.e. how close to now does nTime have to be?
2802 2011-03-02 18:04:32 <ArtForz> doesnt have to be
2803 2011-03-02 18:04:35 <luke-jr> 3 hours IIRC
2804 2011-03-02 18:04:40 <ArtForz> nTime just has to be > median of prev 11 blocks
2805 2011-03-02 18:04:49 <ArtForz> and < (now + 2h)
2806 2011-03-02 18:04:51 <Lachesis> alright
2807 2011-03-02 18:04:52 <Lachesis> cool
2808 2011-03-02 18:07:45 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, offloading to the cpu is a reasonable thing to do for most games
2809 2011-03-02 18:07:49 <phantomcircuit> :P
2810 2011-03-02 18:07:53 <ArtForz> yes
2811 2011-03-02 18:08:57 <Lachesis> wait, does getwork keep stuff in ram?
2812 2011-03-02 18:09:06 <ArtForz> still kinda dishonest though
2813 2011-03-02 18:09:08 <Lachesis> or does the miner pass back everything that's needed to solve the block
2814 2011-03-02 18:09:37 <ArtForz> getwork has to keep the transaction list for the block around
2815 2011-03-02 18:09:49 <Lachesis> that's what this is "mapNewBlock[pblock->hashMerkleRoot] = make_pair(pblock, nExtraNonce);"
2816 2011-03-02 18:09:50 <Lachesis> ?
2817 2011-03-02 18:10:02 <ArtForz> pretty much
2818 2011-03-02 18:10:05 <ArtForz> yea
2819 2011-03-02 18:10:05 <Lachesis> so can i ddos bitcoind by making millions of getwork calls?
2820 2011-03-02 18:10:11 <ArtForz> yes
2821 2011-03-02 18:10:23 <phantomcircuit> amused
2822 2011-03-02 18:10:24 <Lachesis> hrm
2823 2011-03-02 18:10:32 <phantomcircuit> seems like the client is full of shit like that
2824 2011-03-02 18:10:36 <ArtForz> why?
2825 2011-03-02 18:10:42 <phantomcircuit> otoh you'd need the rpc user/pass
2826 2011-03-02 18:10:43 <phantomcircuit> so
2827 2011-03-02 18:10:44 <phantomcircuit> meh
2828 2011-03-02 18:10:47 <ArtForz> RPC isnt meant for untrusted external connections
2829 2011-03-02 18:10:49 <Lachesis> pools
2830 2011-03-02 18:11:01 <phantomcircuit> the pools dont use the mainline client afaik
2831 2011-03-02 18:11:01 <ArtForz> which have to put a proxy in front anyways
2832 2011-03-02 18:11:18 <ArtForz> as normal client doesnt keep track of shares or any of that shit
2833 2011-03-02 18:11:23 <Lachesis> ArtForz, sure, but their proxy is still calling tons of getwork, isn't it?
2834 2011-03-02 18:11:28 <ArtForz> nope
2835 2011-03-02 18:11:42 <ArtForz> otherwise pools wouldnt work
2836 2011-03-02 18:11:46 <Lachesis> orly? i guess i should read jgarzik's stuff again
2837 2011-03-02 18:12:09 <ArtForz> slushs pool is handling > 1k getwork/s at peak times
2838 2011-03-02 18:12:19 <Lachesis> jgarzik's pool stuff just proxies getwork
2839 2011-03-02 18:12:23 <Lachesis> and changes target to be lower
2840 2011-03-02 18:12:31 <ArtForz> well, thats kinda... bad
2841 2011-03-02 18:12:34 <Lachesis> yeah
2842 2011-03-02 18:12:35 Syke has joined
2843 2011-03-02 18:12:57 <Lachesis> hrm
2844 2011-03-02 18:13:02 <Lachesis> this doesn't appear to be using more mem
2845 2011-03-02 18:13:09 <Lachesis> maybe b/c transaction list hasn't changed or something?
2846 2011-03-02 18:13:25 <ArtForz> the tx are cached anyways
2847 2011-03-02 18:13:41 <Lachesis> i'm doing 1k getwork calls / second
2848 2011-03-02 18:13:49 <Lachesis> and bitcoin is not consuming more ram
2849 2011-03-02 18:13:56 <ArtForz> thats.. .weird
2850 2011-03-02 18:13:58 <Lachesis> not very much cpu either
2851 2011-03-02 18:14:04 <Lachesis> yeah
2852 2011-03-02 18:14:07 <ArtForz> so iirc it just keeps arrays of references
2853 2011-03-02 18:14:35 <Lachesis> yeah
2854 2011-03-02 18:14:41 <Lachesis> must not change unless a tx is added
2855 2011-03-02 18:15:02 <ArtForz> yep
2856 2011-03-02 18:15:17 <ArtForz> and thats also limited to 1 update/minute
2857 2011-03-02 18:15:24 <Lachesis> why?
2858 2011-03-02 18:15:34 <ArtForz> because.
2859 2011-03-02 18:15:43 <ArtForz> stadnard miner does the same thing
2860 2011-03-02 18:15:50 <ArtForz> tx list only gets updated once a minute
2861 2011-03-02 18:15:53 <Lachesis> so my txn might take 1 minute to get into a block?
2862 2011-03-02 18:15:58 <Lachesis> before the block is even solved, i mean
2863 2011-03-02 18:16:04 <ArtForz> yes
2864 2011-03-02 18:16:05 <Lachesis> i suppose that's alright
2865 2011-03-02 18:16:16 <Lachesis> if you miss this block, you'll definitely be in the other, right?
2866 2011-03-02 18:16:27 <ArtForz> yup
2867 2011-03-02 18:16:35 <ArtForz> so it's 5.5 instead of 5 min avg... big deal ;)
2868 2011-03-02 18:16:38 <Lachesis> lol
2869 2011-03-02 18:16:51 <ArtForz> btw, just checked that code
2870 2011-03-02 18:16:59 <Lachesis> and i suppose when a block is found, bitcoind drops the old references
2871 2011-03-02 18:17:06 <ArtForz> all it does is keep a map of merkleroot -> bnextranonce
2872 2011-03-02 18:17:17 <ArtForz> merkleroot is 256 bits, bnextranonce 32 bits iirc
2873 2011-03-02 18:17:25 <Lachesis> hrm
2874 2011-03-02 18:17:30 <Lachesis> so why isn't my ram going up at all?
2875 2011-03-02 18:17:51 <Lachesis> i'm making 10000 calls / second
2876 2011-03-02 18:18:00 <Lachesis> i'm eating some cpu now, but memory is constant
2877 2011-03-02 18:18:05 <ArtForz> because it loops after 128 calls
2878 2011-03-02 18:18:17 <ArtForz> check IncrementExtraNonce in main.cpp
2879 2011-03-02 18:18:32 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2880 2011-03-02 18:18:50 <Lachesis> interesting
2881 2011-03-02 18:18:56 <Lachesis> does that mean that mining pools are inefficient?
2882 2011-03-02 18:18:59 <ArtForz> nope
2883 2011-03-02 18:19:02 <Lachesis> b/c more than one person is working on the same hash?
2884 2011-03-02 18:19:05 <ArtForz> it works quite well
2885 2011-03-02 18:19:12 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2886 2011-03-02 18:19:13 <Lachesis> what else changes? ntime?
2887 2011-03-02 18:19:23 <ArtForz> whoops ,soory
2888 2011-03-02 18:19:27 AmpEater has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2889 2011-03-02 18:19:46 <ArtForz> it loops after 128 only if > 1 second elapsed
2890 2011-03-02 18:19:57 <Lachesis> ah alright
2891 2011-03-02 18:20:00 <Lachesis> so either ntime changes
2892 2011-03-02 18:20:04 <Lachesis> or nextranonce changes
2893 2011-03-02 18:20:06 kermit has joined
2894 2011-03-02 18:20:07 <ArtForz> so you're consuming about ... 40 bytes/request
2895 2011-03-02 18:20:08 <Lachesis> or maybe both
2896 2011-03-02 18:20:19 <ArtForz> and it gets cleared every minute
2897 2011-03-02 18:20:39 <ArtForz> well, assuming new tx arrived
2898 2011-03-02 18:20:45 <ArtForz> so not really a problem
2899 2011-03-02 18:21:37 <Lachesis> the memory pool is small again
2900 2011-03-02 18:21:39 <Lachesis> what happened?
2901 2011-03-02 18:21:58 <Lachesis> oh nm
2902 2011-03-02 18:22:02 <Lachesis> i restarted :)
2903 2011-03-02 18:22:05 <Lachesis> 997 txn
2904 2011-03-02 18:22:07 <Lachesis> that's pretty high
2905 2011-03-02 18:22:15 <ArtForz> not really
2906 2011-03-02 18:22:27 <Lachesis> btw
2907 2011-03-02 18:22:28 <Lachesis> https://digum.thorballs.com:3002/mempool.png
2908 2011-03-02 18:22:35 <ArtForz> just tx spam that slooowly dribbles into blocks
2909 2011-03-02 18:22:38 <Lachesis> the date axes are screwed up
2910 2011-03-02 18:22:48 <Lachesis> but it shows the memory pool size over time
2911 2011-03-02 18:23:25 <phantomcircuit> "And the need to be able to withstand DoS attacks (which VISA does not have to deal with) "
2912 2011-03-02 18:23:32 <Lachesis> lol
2913 2011-03-02 18:23:33 <phantomcircuit> lol someone should update the wiki page xD
2914 2011-03-02 18:23:39 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
2915 2011-03-02 18:23:41 <Lachesis> VISA does need to deal with those, and sucks
2916 2011-03-02 18:24:10 AmpEater has joined
2917 2011-03-02 18:27:39 <Lachesis> i wonder what happened at 14:57:01 GMT today that made the txn count go from ~30 to 1000 in around an hour
2918 2011-03-02 18:27:57 <ArtForz> tx spam
2919 2011-03-02 18:28:07 <Lachesis> purposeful?
2920 2011-03-02 18:28:11 <Lachesis> someone ddosing?
2921 2011-03-02 18:28:17 <ArtForz> yup
2922 2011-03-02 18:28:28 <Lachesis> it'd be nice to see a "memory pool explorer :)"
2923 2011-03-02 18:28:31 <ArtForz> happens from time to time
2924 2011-03-02 18:28:50 <ArtForz> doesnt really cause any problems anymore unless it's *massive*
2925 2011-03-02 18:28:56 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2926 2011-03-02 18:30:03 Tril has left ()
2927 2011-03-02 18:30:52 <phantomcircuit> lol
2928 2011-03-02 18:31:10 <phantomcircuit> the network protocol 'block' command sends the actual transactions with the block?
2929 2011-03-02 18:31:12 <phantomcircuit> that's dumb
2930 2011-03-02 18:31:36 <bd_> phantomcircuit: There's a flag you can pass at protocol setup to omit the transactions IIRC
2931 2011-03-02 18:32:08 <ArtForz> yup, something like fClient
2932 2011-03-02 18:33:46 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2933 2011-03-02 18:33:58 <phantomcircuit> SER_BLOCKHEADERONLY
2934 2011-03-02 18:34:31 alystair has joined
2935 2011-03-02 18:34:36 <phantomcircuit> if (!fReadTransactions)
2936 2011-03-02 18:34:43 <phantomcircuit> fReadTransactions i guess
2937 2011-03-02 18:35:37 <ArtForz> guess so
2938 2011-03-02 18:39:28 xelister is now known as retsilex
2939 2011-03-02 18:39:44 <jrabbit> yay my shell is making ~7 cents a day now
2940 2011-03-02 18:39:46 <retsilex> Diablo-D3: how to make old diablo miner run on nvidia?
2941 2011-03-02 18:40:03 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: not really possible.
2942 2011-03-02 18:40:10 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is too much fail
2943 2011-03-02 18:40:20 <BlueMatt> if someone were to write a bitcoin client which uses an alternate port, would the existing clients properly handle the different port via the existing port flags?
2944 2011-03-02 18:40:28 <retsilex> jrabbit: if you would start music career, you could get 43 cents more
2945 2011-03-02 18:40:51 <jrabbit> retsilex: hmm? :P
2946 2011-03-02 18:40:56 <retsilex> jrabbit: think
2947 2011-03-02 18:41:12 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: yes, but they'll penalize it
2948 2011-03-02 18:41:18 <BlueMatt> how so?
2949 2011-03-02 18:41:21 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the network protocol passes ports along with ips
2950 2011-03-02 18:41:38 <ArtForz> current client tries connecting to peers in last-seen order
2951 2011-03-02 18:41:50 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: Yes, however I was wondering if the current clients act properly with the flag
2952 2011-03-02 18:41:54 <ArtForz> nonstd port clients get hit with a 2h penalty there
2953 2011-03-02 18:42:06 <BlueMatt> is there a reason why that was added?
2954 2011-03-02 18:42:07 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, why?
2955 2011-03-02 18:42:09 <retsilex> ArtForz: what? why
2956 2011-03-02 18:42:12 <phantomcircuit> lol
2957 2011-03-02 18:42:15 <phantomcircuit> ME TOO
2958 2011-03-02 18:42:16 <MacRohard> can the network protocol support ipv6 addresses?
2959 2011-03-02 18:42:16 <ArtForz> hey, I didnt write it.
2960 2011-03-02 18:42:24 * retsilex grabs a torch
2961 2011-03-02 18:42:27 <phantomcircuit> MacRohard, yes
2962 2011-03-02 18:42:28 <BlueMatt> MacRohard: the bits are there, but no clients support it
2963 2011-03-02 18:42:30 <ArtForz> network protocol? yes. current client? no.
2964 2011-03-02 18:42:31 <retsilex> MacRohard: protocol can, but the clients do not implement it
2965 2011-03-02 18:42:36 <MacRohard> cool
2966 2011-03-02 18:42:39 <phantomcircuit> indeed the python client im writing uses ipv6
2967 2011-03-02 18:42:59 <BlueMatt> how many clients are being written right now?
2968 2011-03-02 18:43:03 <phantomcircuit> no idea
2969 2011-03-02 18:43:04 <ArtForz> 42
2970 2011-03-02 18:43:05 <retsilex> 1
2971 2011-03-02 18:43:14 <phantomcircuit> retsilex, 2
2972 2011-03-02 18:43:17 <phantomcircuit> at least
2973 2011-03-02 18:43:18 <phantomcircuit> probably more
2974 2011-03-02 18:43:26 <ArtForz> sqrt(-1)
2975 2011-03-02 18:43:31 <retsilex> full ports of clinet?
2976 2011-03-02 18:43:31 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, lold
2977 2011-03-02 18:43:41 <phantomcircuit> retsilex, im working on a full python client right now
2978 2011-03-02 18:43:46 <BlueMatt> lol, in any case is there a reason for the 2h penalty?
2979 2011-03-02 18:43:49 <ArtForz> no wait, thats just a imaginary client
2980 2011-03-02 18:43:57 <x6763> my clojure client supports ipv6
2981 2011-03-02 18:44:09 <retsilex> BlueMatt: gov wanted easier way to ban/trace all bitcoin nodes =)
2982 2011-03-02 18:44:10 <bk128-Droid> I see what you did there
2983 2011-03-02 18:44:10 <phantomcircuit> x6763, high five
2984 2011-03-02 18:44:22 * x6763 high fives phantomcircuit
2985 2011-03-02 18:44:54 <BlueMatt> retsilex: how does that work?
2986 2011-03-02 18:45:12 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, that was what we call a joke
2987 2011-03-02 18:45:14 <molecular> what's the best sql datatype to store hashes?
2988 2011-03-02 18:45:15 <retsilex> well now you know 8333 is bitcoin =)
2989 2011-03-02 18:45:17 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
2990 2011-03-02 18:45:36 <retsilex> molecular: var(128) or something? varchar(256) to make it a bit more expandable
2991 2011-03-02 18:45:37 <ArtForz> or vmware ;)
2992 2011-03-02 18:45:42 <phantomcircuit> molecular, what database?
2993 2011-03-02 18:45:42 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: excuse my sarcastic form of a joke...no one ever seems to get that
2994 2011-03-02 18:45:51 <retsilex> ArtForz: yes, obviously its vmwares p2ping eachother
2995 2011-03-02 18:46:01 <molecular> varchar(256) is (depending on collation) 256 chars, that doesnt seem right
2996 2011-03-02 18:46:02 <molecular> mysql
2997 2011-03-02 18:46:08 <retsilex> they are building collective intelligence by hosting X-COM ufo
2998 2011-03-02 18:46:09 <BlueMatt> or someone using you as a proxy to connect to a bunch of vmware servers
2999 2011-03-02 18:46:12 <molecular> thought about BIGINT(32) ?
3000 2011-03-02 18:46:15 <jgarzik> Lachesis: problems with poold.py?
3001 2011-03-02 18:46:28 BlueMatt is now known as BlueMatt|afk
3002 2011-03-02 18:46:29 <phantomcircuit> molecular, bigint is only 64 bits
3003 2011-03-02 18:46:45 <molecular> can't use arbitrary length, like BIGINT(32) ?
3004 2011-03-02 18:46:46 <phantomcircuit> molecular, what you want is BINARY
3005 2011-03-02 18:46:53 <x6763> my client also supports ports other than 8333
3006 2011-03-02 18:46:54 <molecular> hmm
3007 2011-03-02 18:47:03 <phantomcircuit> molecular, the number is just the point at which the db cuts the number off
3008 2011-03-02 18:47:08 <Lachesis> jgarzik, nope - ArtForz and i were trying to figure out why it doesn't cause a memleak
3009 2011-03-02 18:47:13 <phantomcircuit> molecular, indeed the number is just a nuisance
3010 2011-03-02 18:47:15 bk128-Droid has joined
3011 2011-03-02 18:47:15 <molecular> phantomcircuit, oh
3012 2011-03-02 18:47:24 <phantomcircuit> molecular, BIGINT(1) can only hold 0-9
3013 2011-03-02 18:47:26 <molecular> that's... well... stupid
3014 2011-03-02 18:47:36 <phantomcircuit> why yes
3015 2011-03-02 18:47:37 <phantomcircuit> it is
3016 2011-03-02 18:47:40 <jgarzik> Lachesis: heh
3017 2011-03-02 18:47:49 <ArtForz> it's SQL, what do you expect? ;)
3018 2011-03-02 18:47:53 <retsilex> molecular: hash is naturally stored as string, so char,
3019 2011-03-02 18:48:05 <molecular> varchar(64) ?
3020 2011-03-02 18:48:06 <retsilex> molecular: but you could also store it as binary field I guess
3021 2011-03-02 18:48:08 <molecular> char(64)
3022 2011-03-02 18:48:14 <phantomcircuit> molecular, http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/binary-varbinary.html
3023 2011-03-02 18:48:15 <edcba> can i put many differents bigints in the same field ? :)
3024 2011-03-02 18:48:35 <retsilex> molecular: if you are going to use hashes that have 64/2 bytes (64 chars written in hex)
3025 2011-03-02 18:48:40 <phantomcircuit> retsilex, storing a hash as char is a bad idea, changing the charset would screw that up
3026 2011-03-02 18:49:06 <retsilex> phantomcircuit: its how everyone does it usually, what way you recommend?
3027 2011-03-02 18:49:10 <phantomcircuit> also storing hashes in a db in hex form is just silly
3028 2011-03-02 18:49:20 <phantomcircuit> retsilex, mysql has a BINARY datatype
3029 2011-03-02 18:49:22 <molecular> wait, assuming I want to store 256 bits. how long does the char have to be?
3030 2011-03-02 18:49:39 <phantomcircuit> molecular, ffs BINARY(32)
3031 2011-03-02 18:49:49 <molecular> ok
3032 2011-03-02 18:50:14 <molecular> and BINARY is comparable so I can order by, group by?
3033 2011-03-02 18:50:20 <molecular> can I use it as PK?
3034 2011-03-02 18:50:30 <phantomcircuit> yes
3035 2011-03-02 18:50:31 <retsilex> what db?
3036 2011-03-02 18:50:34 <molecular> mysql
3037 2011-03-02 18:50:40 <molecular> but I _could_ still switch ;)
3038 2011-03-02 18:51:08 <molecular> I think I like BINARY better, because CHAR will depend on collation?
3039 2011-03-02 18:51:17 <phantomcircuit> molecular, no he meant, MyISAM or InnoDB?
3040 2011-03-02 18:51:24 <molecular> MyISAM
3041 2011-03-02 18:51:28 <molecular> MariaDB, sorry
3042 2011-03-02 18:51:37 <retsilex> O_o mariadb
3043 2011-03-02 18:51:40 <molecular> but, am just starting, could use any storage engine
3044 2011-03-02 18:52:08 <phantomcircuit> retsilex, mysql fork
3045 2011-03-02 18:52:44 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3046 2011-03-02 18:52:50 bitanarchy has joined
3047 2011-03-02 18:52:50 bitanarchy has quit (Changing host)
3048 2011-03-02 18:52:50 bitanarchy has joined
3049 2011-03-02 18:52:52 <molecular> I'll just go with BINARY(32), mariadb and see what hapens
3050 2011-03-02 18:52:54 <molecular> happens
3051 2011-03-02 18:53:20 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
3052 2011-03-02 18:53:26 <phantomcircuit> personally im gonna be hella lazy and use sqlite
3053 2011-03-02 18:53:40 bk128-Droid has joined
3054 2011-03-02 18:53:45 <phantomcircuit> it's slow as balls
3055 2011-03-02 18:56:35 <phantomcircuit> note to sell
3056 2011-03-02 18:56:43 <phantomcircuit> drinking large quantities of energy drink
3057 2011-03-02 18:56:46 <phantomcircuit> IS FUCKING AWESOME
3058 2011-03-02 18:56:55 <phantomcircuit> gogo coding machine
3059 2011-03-02 18:57:24 <molecular> that's what people on coke say
3060 2011-03-02 18:57:31 <molecular> and then their code is shit ;)
3061 2011-03-02 18:57:38 bk128-Droid has quit (Client Quit)
3062 2011-03-02 18:57:44 <phantomcircuit> molecular, i have ADHD
3063 2011-03-02 18:57:54 <phantomcircuit> stimulants make me more focused
3064 2011-03-02 18:58:18 <molecular> uhm, that's true for people without ADHD, too, right?
3065 2011-03-02 18:58:29 <phantomcircuit> no generally not
3066 2011-03-02 18:58:36 <molecular> well, it's true for me
3067 2011-03-02 18:58:58 <phantomcircuit> if you give most people stimulants they'll work faster, but not be any more focused
3068 2011-03-02 18:59:01 <molecular> what happens when you take ritalin?
3069 2011-03-02 18:59:01 <validus> phatnom: buy a spike
3070 2011-03-02 18:59:06 <validus> phantom*
3071 2011-03-02 18:59:29 <phantomcircuit> spike?
3072 2011-03-02 18:59:32 <validus> yes
3073 2011-03-02 18:59:35 <validus> you'l need 1
3074 2011-03-02 18:59:37 <phantomcircuit> what's that
3075 2011-03-02 18:59:46 <validus> a brutal energy drink
3076 2011-03-02 18:59:46 <phantomcircuit> molecular, i calm down
3077 2011-03-02 18:59:50 <phantomcircuit> molecular, it's neat
3078 2011-03-02 18:59:54 <validus> ive only seen it sold at 7-11 and gnc
3079 2011-03-02 19:00:00 <validus> the entire can is a warning label
3080 2011-03-02 19:00:01 <molecular> ok, that's different for me.. I hate that stuff
3081 2011-03-02 19:00:29 <phantomcircuit> validus, that's 300 mg of caffeine
3082 2011-03-02 19:00:33 <validus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Shooter
3083 2011-03-02 19:00:34 <validus> no
3084 2011-03-02 19:00:38 <phantomcircuit> neat
3085 2011-03-02 19:00:40 <validus> its 26 000 b12 in an 8 oz can
3086 2011-03-02 19:00:49 <validus> you will be gnawing on your brain stem
3087 2011-03-02 19:00:56 <phantomcircuit> meh
3088 2011-03-02 19:01:01 <phantomcircuit> b12 just makes my skin flush
3089 2011-03-02 19:01:11 <validus> i used to drink 6+ energy drinks a day. i drink 1 spike
3090 2011-03-02 19:01:24 afed has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3091 2011-03-02 19:01:31 <phantomcircuit> also more than 400mg of caffeine/day is considered poisoning
3092 2011-03-02 19:01:34 <phantomcircuit> lol
3093 2011-03-02 19:01:36 <validus> and not redbull either
3094 2011-03-02 19:01:45 <phantomcircuit> redbull is lame
3095 2011-03-02 19:01:47 <molecular> It also warns against combining the product with any prescription or over-the-counter medications
3096 2011-03-02 19:01:50 <molecular> sounds like fun
3097 2011-03-02 19:01:56 <validus> redline is a fat burner itll do it to. but on an empty stomach itll make you puke
3098 2011-03-02 19:02:11 <phantomcircuit> molecular, lots of medications contain caffeine
3099 2011-03-02 19:02:13 <validus> spike takes the cake on any energy drink ive ever had
3100 2011-03-02 19:02:25 <validus> some places require you to be 18+ to buy it also
3101 2011-03-02 19:02:28 <phantomcircuit> avoid things labeled "non drowsy" they just have caffeine in them
3102 2011-03-02 19:02:33 <validus> and theres a few deaths linked to it so dont overdo it
3103 2011-03-02 19:02:51 <validus> it says drink 1/2 of an 8 oz can to develop a tolerance first
3104 2011-03-02 19:03:06 <validus> orange gold is the best
3105 2011-03-02 19:03:09 <phantomcircuit> validus, honestly im just drinking this because my adderall script ran out and it's raining
3106 2011-03-02 19:03:25 <validus> im out of adderall :/
3107 2011-03-02 19:03:32 <validus> i could prob get a script if i ever went to the doc
3108 2011-03-02 19:03:40 <molecular> wonder if it's available in europe
3109 2011-03-02 19:03:56 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
3110 2011-03-02 19:03:57 <phantomcircuit> molecular, the level of evidence is substantially higher
3111 2011-03-02 19:03:57 <validus> i just call up mom. hey can i have some of your adderalls
3112 2011-03-02 19:03:59 <validus> lol
3113 2011-03-02 19:04:29 <validus> which ones you get phantom?
3114 2011-03-02 19:04:43 <phantomcircuit> validus, if you're in the US you can basically just go to a psychiatrist and ask them for a script
3115 2011-03-02 19:04:56 <phantomcircuit> generic dextroamphetamine salts
3116 2011-03-02 19:04:56 <validus> ya its gettin the $$ for that visit
3117 2011-03-02 19:05:00 <validus> no what mg
3118 2011-03-02 19:05:02 <validus> i know what they called
3119 2011-03-02 19:05:03 <phantomcircuit> oh
3120 2011-03-02 19:05:08 <phantomcircuit> i get 7.5mg
3121 2011-03-02 19:05:10 <validus> 10 20 30
3122 2011-03-02 19:05:23 <validus> blue?
3123 2011-03-02 19:05:25 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3124 2011-03-02 19:05:38 bk128-Droid has joined
3125 2011-03-02 19:05:43 <phantomcircuit> i can cut them into quarters and do ghetto time release
3126 2011-03-02 19:05:45 <phantomcircuit> xD
3127 2011-03-02 19:05:45 <validus> they get teh pink 20 ones. work great
3128 2011-03-02 19:05:50 <validus> i crush 2 at snort em
3129 2011-03-02 19:05:52 <validus> instant action
3130 2011-03-02 19:05:53 <phantomcircuit> ew
3131 2011-03-02 19:06:11 <phantomcircuit> dextroamphetamine will kill tissue in high concentration
3132 2011-03-02 19:06:12 <validus> well usualy 1 then 1 later
3133 2011-03-02 19:06:21 <phantomcircuit> snorting them will give you the same problems cocaine users get
3134 2011-03-02 19:06:30 <validus> ya but cheaper than coke
3135 2011-03-02 19:06:41 <bk128-Droid> You snort adderall?
3136 2011-03-02 19:06:49 <phantomcircuit> bloody noses and collapsing face syndrome is not for me
3137 2011-03-02 19:06:49 <bk128-Droid> Brilliant...
3138 2011-03-02 19:07:00 <validus> never had a bloody nose
3139 2011-03-02 19:07:08 <phantomcircuit> you'll get one eventually
3140 2011-03-02 19:07:09 <validus> or a face syndrome
3141 2011-03-02 19:07:18 <phantomcircuit> but i guess you're not doing it a lot
3142 2011-03-02 19:07:23 <validus> i know its not good
3143 2011-03-02 19:07:24 afed has joined
3144 2011-03-02 19:07:29 <validus> im not selling myself that it is
3145 2011-03-02 19:07:52 <validus> i usually take them when i go onto my long nite ventures of fixing things or doing whatever work
3146 2011-03-02 19:07:54 <validus> helps greatly
3147 2011-03-02 19:08:29 TD has joined
3148 2011-03-02 19:08:35 kelvie_`` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3149 2011-03-02 19:10:44 <validus> im not abusing them that bad. i know i have adhd thats a given
3150 2011-03-02 19:10:50 <validus> i just dont like waiting forever for them to kick in
3151 2011-03-02 19:11:12 <phantomcircuit> im going to watch detroit swat now
3152 2011-03-02 19:11:14 <phantomcircuit> it's hilarious
3153 2011-03-02 19:11:26 <validus> havent seen that one
3154 2011-03-02 19:11:34 <validus> usualy tv ends up being attack of the show and bait car
3155 2011-03-02 19:11:42 <phantomcircuit> take one part city on the verge of anarchy
3156 2011-03-02 19:11:54 <phantomcircuit> one part military wannabes
3157 2011-03-02 19:11:59 <validus> i heard detroit got bad
3158 2011-03-02 19:12:03 <validus> or a lot worst rather
3159 2011-03-02 19:12:05 <phantomcircuit> and one part idiotic tv crew
3160 2011-03-02 19:12:11 <bk128-Droid> Robocop statue
3161 2011-03-02 19:12:12 <phantomcircuit> and you have one terribly good show
3162 2011-03-02 19:12:15 <validus> you should see beyond scared straight
3163 2011-03-02 19:12:30 <bk128-Droid> They better build it
3164 2011-03-02 19:12:36 <validus> they take trouble teens into prison , intervention program taught by inmates
3165 2011-03-02 19:12:47 <validus> some of em get messed with hardcore
3166 2011-03-02 19:12:54 <phantomcircuit> meh
3167 2011-03-02 19:13:00 <validus> its actually not that bad of a show
3168 2011-03-02 19:13:01 <phantomcircuit> BIG SCARY PRISON
3169 2011-03-02 19:13:01 <sethsethseth> you guys need to look into this stuff memantine, brand name namenda, its an alzheimers drug that has an effect of eliminating amphetamine tolerance
3170 2011-03-02 19:13:03 <validus> a and e though
3171 2011-03-02 19:13:22 <validus> i dont have an amphetamine tolerance
3172 2011-03-02 19:13:23 <bk128-Droid> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/imaginationstation/detroit-needs-a-statue-of-robocop
3173 2011-03-02 19:13:26 <phantomcircuit> sethsethseth, lol
3174 2011-03-02 19:13:37 <sethsethseth> you will if you do it a lot though
3175 2011-03-02 19:13:43 <validus> ya i watch what i do
3176 2011-03-02 19:14:06 <sethsethseth> good
3177 2011-03-02 19:14:11 <validus> i think almost everyone in my fam been prescribed addy's
3178 2011-03-02 19:14:40 <validus> gotta stop anyways so ic an goto doc im not taking a blood test and having stuff show up
3179 2011-03-02 19:15:24 <validus> exercise not helping the great pain i get in kneecaps
3180 2011-03-02 19:15:33 <bonsaikitten> o_O
3181 2011-03-02 19:15:42 <validus> and no way im going to let them do surgery if it came to that
3182 2011-03-02 19:15:58 <validus> feels like a crowbar popping off your kneecap while your sitting lol
3183 2011-03-02 19:15:58 <phantomcircuit> so you're taking the genius plan of avoiding the doctor to deal with your problem?
3184 2011-03-02 19:16:00 <phantomcircuit> xD
3185 2011-03-02 19:16:15 <validus> nah lack of funds mostly, i dont like most dr's , hospitals etc
3186 2011-03-02 19:16:41 <validus> im stubborn as in ill fix it myself so im trying to get over that but not that easy
3187 2011-03-02 19:16:47 <bk128-Droid> No health insurance?
3188 2011-03-02 19:16:51 <validus> nope
3189 2011-03-02 19:16:55 <validus> never had health insurance in my life
3190 2011-03-02 19:16:57 <bk128-Droid> Ouch
3191 2011-03-02 19:17:11 <validus> ya i get jack.
3192 2011-03-02 19:17:17 Spenvo has joined
3193 2011-03-02 19:17:18 <validus> i get oh were sorry come back with a couple grand
3194 2011-03-02 19:18:13 <validus> but whatevers ill get it worked out eventually
3195 2011-03-02 19:18:27 <validus> i called for heatlh insurance like 119 a month and itd be 2 years before full coverage kicked in
3196 2011-03-02 19:18:30 <validus> like wtf am i paying you for
3197 2011-03-02 19:19:11 <validus> that or im moving to canada with a real health care system funded lol
3198 2011-03-02 19:19:43 <phantomcircuit> why cant you get coverage?
3199 2011-03-02 19:20:25 <validus> lack of job. and im not going to pay someone for 2 years for coverage to kick in
3200 2011-03-02 19:20:29 <validus> i think thats a load of crapt
3201 2011-03-02 19:20:44 <phantomcircuit> honestly the health insurance actuaries are so good that you're basically just prepaying for health care
3202 2011-03-02 19:21:04 <phantomcircuit> validus, if you want health insurance right now it's about 25K/year
3203 2011-03-02 19:21:12 <bk128-Droid> They want to avoid paying for pre-existing conditions
3204 2011-03-02 19:21:40 <validus> i thought the rate was low. i dindt like the wait time for things to kick in, i could be using that money for more vital things
3205 2011-03-02 19:21:47 <phantomcircuit> low deductible health insurance is retarded
3206 2011-03-02 19:22:03 <validus> either way i felt i was getting screwed and i go with my gut on those things
3207 2011-03-02 19:22:17 <phantomcircuit> you're basically just paying for health care with lots of additional paper work
3208 2011-03-02 19:22:22 <validus> cuz i more than likely was
3209 2011-03-02 19:22:23 <validus> hehe
3210 2011-03-02 19:22:36 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
3211 2011-03-02 19:23:00 <validus> so psyc and a dr visit thats about 300 bucks out here
3212 2011-03-02 19:23:11 <validus> then scripts w/o insurance is retarded most the time to
3213 2011-03-02 19:23:14 <phantomcircuit> yeah sounds about right
3214 2011-03-02 19:23:24 <validus> not sure i know my mom pays 9 bucks for 90 addy's
3215 2011-03-02 19:23:34 <phantomcircuit> iirc a months supply of generic dextroamphetamine is about $100
3216 2011-03-02 19:23:44 <validus> thats what she gets for the month
3217 2011-03-02 19:23:45 <validus> lol
3218 2011-03-02 19:23:57 <phantomcircuit> they're pretty cheap actually
3219 2011-03-02 19:24:21 <validus> dont know why and they dont use em all so i dont feel bad asking for some of the ones id know be leftover anywyas
3220 2011-03-02 19:25:13 <validus> i know if i went they'd give em to me, thats not even a question
3221 2011-03-02 19:25:40 Raulo_ has joined
3222 2011-03-02 19:26:05 <phantomcircuit> validus, how old are you?
3223 2011-03-02 19:26:25 <validus> 30
3224 2011-03-02 19:26:35 <phantomcircuit> and your knees are fucked?
3225 2011-03-02 19:26:39 <jgarzik> Lachesis: I'm still curious about this: <Lachesis> jgarzik's pool stuff just proxies getwork || <Lachesis> and changes target to be lower || <ArtForz> well, thats kinda... bad
3226 2011-03-02 19:26:39 <phantomcircuit> start saving
3227 2011-03-02 19:26:40 <jgarzik> bad?
3228 2011-03-02 19:26:43 <validus> yep, for the last few years
3229 2011-03-02 19:26:51 <phantomcircuit> w/o insurance you're gonna need about 100K in like 10 years
3230 2011-03-02 19:26:52 <validus> it comes and goes
3231 2011-03-02 19:27:29 <validus> ill have insurance by then, i pretty much am startin from scratch again
3232 2011-03-02 19:28:08 <ArtForz> jgarzik: irrelevant
3233 2011-03-02 19:28:34 <ArtForz> turns out getwork is a lot more lower cpu use than I rememebred
3234 2011-03-02 19:29:03 <jgarzik> ArtForz: ok :) I just didn't want to sit around with obvious crapola code in my pool server, which I just rewrote into C. Don't want to propagate mistakes any more than necessary...
3235 2011-03-02 19:30:05 * jgarzik proxies each getwork request directly to bitcoind, so that's a lot of getwork RPC calls from one app, if you're running a pool.
3236 2011-03-02 19:30:51 <jgarzik> pool server checks the work submitted for each work, both for correct solution and to see if it matches previously-sent 'data' (excluding 4-byte nonce field)
3237 2011-03-02 19:31:14 <BlueMatt> afk!~matt@unaffiliated/bluematt|ArtForz: I looked through the code and AFAICT the only timepenalties are 51 minutes for an address from the irc (why 51?) and 2h for any addr received through the ProcessMessage command (peer exchange?) I saw no hint of any penalty for a node on a different port
3238 2011-03-02 19:31:33 alystair has quit (Quit: â(ã»_ã»)âOUTTA HEREâ(ã»oã»)â)
3239 2011-03-02 19:31:55 BlueMatt is now known as afk!~matt@unaffiliated/bluematt|BlueMatt
3240 2011-03-02 19:32:05 <ArtForz> if (addr.port != GetDefaultPort())
3241 2011-03-02 19:32:05 <ArtForz> nRandomizer += 2 * 60 * 60;
3242 2011-03-02 19:32:32 <BlueMatt> oops, my greps were off
3243 2011-03-02 19:33:14 larsig has joined
3244 2011-03-02 19:33:35 <BlueMatt> Anyone know why that is done?
3245 2011-03-02 19:33:55 <jgarzik> satoshi was drunk one day :)
3246 2011-03-02 19:34:07 amiller has joined
3247 2011-03-02 19:34:13 <ArtForz> ahhh, beyond the ballmer peak ;)
3248 2011-03-02 19:34:16 <jgarzik> we really need to move away from 8333 as a default
3249 2011-03-02 19:34:18 towerX is now known as tower
3250 2011-03-02 19:34:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hence my wondering/looking at code atm
3251 2011-03-02 19:34:42 <jgarzik> satoshi was smart enough to include support in P2P protocol for (a) IPv6 and (b) non-8333 ports. We should use that.
3252 2011-03-02 19:34:55 <BlueMatt> I agree, though port is alot easier to do...
3253 2011-03-02 19:34:58 <jgarzik> my upcoming pool server (and all other services) will be fully IPv6-enabled
3254 2011-03-02 19:35:21 bk128 has joined
3255 2011-03-02 19:35:24 <jgarzik> most miners are already IPv6-ready by virtue of using http libs
3256 2011-03-02 19:35:46 <BlueMatt> Well, Im looking at implementing basic port options (though it will take me quite a while because Ive never done anything with C++, but hell why not learn now)
3257 2011-03-02 19:35:49 <jgarzik> JSON-RPC is "mostly" IPv6-ready in the main bitcoin client
3258 2011-03-02 19:36:12 <BlueMatt> Maybe if I can figure out ports Ill move onto IPv6
3259 2011-03-02 19:36:19 BlueMatt is now known as BlueMatt|afk
3260 2011-03-02 19:38:07 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3261 2011-03-02 19:38:33 dishwara has joined
3262 2011-03-02 19:40:03 dwdollar has left ()
3263 2011-03-02 19:41:18 larsivi has joined
3264 2011-03-02 19:42:19 <midnightmagic> how does mtgox determine which orders at a particular dollar value get filled?
3265 2011-03-02 19:43:52 <ArtForz> oldest standing order first
3266 2011-03-02 19:45:09 <jrabbit> jgarzik: by the way I hate your options with a passion <3
3267 2011-03-02 19:45:15 <jrabbit> in cpuminer
3268 2011-03-02 19:45:33 <jgarzik> jrabbit: um, ok
3269 2011-03-02 19:45:47 BlueMatt is now known as afk!~matt@unaffiliated/bluematt|BlueMatt
3270 2011-03-02 19:45:48 <midnightmagic> i like how dnet does the cores.. benchmarking each core, let user choose one..
3271 2011-03-02 19:45:53 <midnightmagic> i like cpuminer though. :)
3272 2011-03-02 19:46:16 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: except theres one problem
3273 2011-03-02 19:46:19 <jrabbit> nothing too bad but I do like to complain about such things
3274 2011-03-02 19:46:20 <Diablo-D3> we only have one good core
3275 2011-03-02 19:46:33 <Diablo-D3> the one written in asm
3276 2011-03-02 19:48:38 <midnightmagic> asm isn't an option for some systems.
3277 2011-03-02 19:49:15 <phantomcircuit> how much faster is the asm one?
3278 2011-03-02 19:49:20 <ArtForz> what systems?
3279 2011-03-02 19:49:21 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: yes, but thats a compile time option
3280 2011-03-02 19:49:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: non-x86 ones
3281 2011-03-02 19:49:34 <amiller> bitcoinmonitor.com leaks memory if you leave it running
3282 2011-03-02 19:49:52 CyanDynamo has joined
3283 2011-03-02 19:49:54 <ArtForz> wow, so non-x86 asm isn't asm?
3284 2011-03-02 19:49:55 <Diablo-D3> amiller: thats not surprising
3285 2011-03-02 19:50:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the asm core is x86 ;)
3286 2011-03-02 19:50:12 <Diablo-D3> amiller: most people simply suck dick at ajax.
3287 2011-03-02 19:50:47 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, how can you possibly fail at ajax
3288 2011-03-02 19:50:50 <phantomcircuit> it's so fucking simple
3289 2011-03-02 19:51:23 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: like forget to delete old events that have fallen off your live graph view? ;)
3290 2011-03-02 19:51:47 <amiller> Diablo-D3, well when you put it that way it _does_ sound pretty simple
3291 2011-03-02 19:53:58 <Diablo-D3> even google has fallen into the same trap with some of their shit
3292 2011-03-02 19:54:14 RazielZ has quit ()
3293 2011-03-02 19:54:18 <Diablo-D3> like, let the live news box on google finance's front page keep going and it'll happily keep using memory
3294 2011-03-02 19:54:27 <phantomcircuit> lol so the objects dont get gc'd because they're connected via event notification
3295 2011-03-02 19:54:28 <phantomcircuit> failure
3296 2011-03-02 19:54:41 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: what about 4way?
3297 2011-03-02 19:55:38 <rgm3> kinky
3298 2011-03-02 19:55:45 <phantomcircuit> rofl
3299 2011-03-02 19:55:48 <phantomcircuit> this is hilarious
3300 2011-03-02 19:56:07 <phantomcircuit> this has to be the worst swat team ever
3301 2011-03-02 19:56:25 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: I dunno, what about it?
3302 2011-03-02 19:56:45 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: they dont get gc'd because they still have a reference attached somewhere
3303 2011-03-02 19:56:58 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: such as, for example, in an array full of events that keeps getting bigger.
3304 2011-03-02 19:57:04 <phantomcircuit> lol i wrote an ajax message board
3305 2011-03-02 19:57:14 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: non-x86 systems; systems where the CPU doesn't support the asm (old CPU) and so on.
3306 2011-03-02 19:57:16 <phantomcircuit> it would eat memory because i never clipped the tree
3307 2011-03-02 19:57:24 <phantomcircuit> people complained and i started clipping it
3308 2011-03-02 19:57:24 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: ding.
3309 2011-03-02 19:57:31 <phantomcircuit> then they complained because it was slower
3310 2011-03-02 19:57:34 <phantomcircuit> duhhhhh
3311 2011-03-02 19:57:51 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: It's my understanding 4way works better than asm32 on some systems
3312 2011-03-02 19:57:58 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, was intentional in my case though
3313 2011-03-02 19:58:04 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: sounds like a bug.
3314 2011-03-02 19:58:11 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, since all content was write once i could cache infinitely
3315 2011-03-02 19:58:59 <phantomcircuit> and avoiding the http request/response significantly improved performance
3316 2011-03-02 19:59:17 <phantomcircuit> /. is an excellent example of why using http caching for ajax is a bad idea
3317 2011-03-02 19:59:46 <jrabbit> luke-jr: why exactly isn't there an asm64 impelemtnatino of that?
3318 2011-03-02 19:59:52 <Diablo-D3> /. is an excellent example of why a LOT of things are bad ideas
3319 2011-03-02 19:59:56 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: haha
3320 2011-03-02 20:00:00 <luke-jr> jrabbit: ?
3321 2011-03-02 20:00:03 <phantomcircuit> lol
3322 2011-03-02 20:00:13 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, they broke a lot of shit
3323 2011-03-02 20:00:26 <Diablo-D3> the new slashdot theme is just horrid shit
3324 2011-03-02 20:00:33 <Diablo-D3> I want the old one they had like 10 years ago back
3325 2011-03-02 20:00:44 <jrabbit> luke-jr: I thought there was a higher level asm that worked on both... maybe I dont udnerstand how 64 bit mode works in x86/64 cpus
3326 2011-03-02 20:01:04 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: its betetr than those fuckign twitter facebook icons on every goddamn story
3327 2011-03-02 20:01:13 <phantomcircuit> lol
3328 2011-03-02 20:01:23 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
3329 2011-03-02 20:01:24 <phantomcircuit> i like how the apple icon is the actual apple icon
3330 2011-03-02 20:01:29 <phantomcircuit> but the windows icon is a broken window
3331 2011-03-02 20:01:38 <noot> hehe
3332 2011-03-02 20:02:18 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: fucking twitterlivebookthingy
3333 2011-03-02 20:02:45 <Diablo-D3> I dont understand this "social media" shit, and I never will
3334 2011-03-02 20:02:48 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: I even use twitter and it mader me rage a little
3335 2011-03-02 20:02:55 <Diablo-D3> its a fad, and its dying
3336 2011-03-02 20:02:57 <Diablo-D3> so whatever
3337 2011-03-02 20:03:01 <validus> ive never been to twitter
3338 2011-03-02 20:03:13 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, it's simple, you take the dumb blonde who wants to tell everybody everything and give her a way to actually do it
3339 2011-03-02 20:03:20 <jrabbit> Its a good demonstration of what RSS is good at.
3340 2011-03-02 20:03:31 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: so... fox news?
3341 2011-03-02 20:03:37 <midnightmagic> twitter rules. you just have to find the smart people to follow.
3342 2011-03-02 20:03:44 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, lololololololol
3343 2011-03-02 20:03:47 <Diablo-D3> dude, there are no smart people on twitter
3344 2011-03-02 20:03:47 <midnightmagic> and suddenly you know things before everyone else does.
3345 2011-03-02 20:03:49 <Diablo-D3> they all went to identica
3346 2011-03-02 20:04:05 <midnightmagic> dude, zooko is on twitter and he's smarter than both of us put together.
3347 2011-03-02 20:04:07 <jrabbit> eh.
3348 2011-03-02 20:04:22 <jrabbit> twitter hasn't done anything evil yet.
3349 2011-03-02 20:04:22 <phantomcircuit> fucking apple
3350 2011-03-02 20:04:24 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck is that
3351 2011-03-02 20:04:27 <phantomcircuit> <object> tags
3352 2011-03-02 20:04:30 <phantomcircuit> FUCK YOU
3353 2011-03-02 20:04:37 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: lol what
3354 2011-03-02 20:04:46 <midnightmagic> zooko = crypto guy.
3355 2011-03-02 20:04:49 <phantomcircuit> all the videos on apple.com require quicktime
3356 2011-03-02 20:04:54 <Diablo-D3> oh, him
3357 2011-03-02 20:04:58 <phantomcircuit> not a quicktime compatible plugin, but the actual quicktime
3358 2011-03-02 20:05:00 <Diablo-D3> I dont think hes actually on twitter
3359 2011-03-02 20:05:04 <phantomcircuit> asshats
3360 2011-03-02 20:05:05 <midnightmagic> yeah, he is.
3361 2011-03-02 20:05:13 <Diablo-D3> no, his twitter account retweets his identica account
3362 2011-03-02 20:05:15 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: they're actually h264 <video> tags if your browsewr supports it.
3363 2011-03-02 20:05:24 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, no they're actually not
3364 2011-03-02 20:05:24 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3365 2011-03-02 20:05:30 <midnightmagic> it doesn't matter. he's on twitter. he has a presence there.
3366 2011-03-02 20:05:44 <Diablo-D3> yes, but that just means hes smarter than you because hes on identica
3367 2011-03-02 20:05:44 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, they're video tags until you click on them, and then they get switched to object tags w/ js
3368 2011-03-02 20:05:46 <midnightmagic> and he answers people directly on twitter.
3369 2011-03-02 20:05:48 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: thats part of it its realyl easy to plug identica into twitter and so forth
3370 2011-03-02 20:06:05 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: yes, but you're a fucking douchebag if you think anyone gives a fuck about twitter
3371 2011-03-02 20:06:06 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: hm... maybe your browser doesn't support h264?
3372 2011-03-02 20:06:08 <Diablo-D3> I dont. No one else does.
3373 2011-03-02 20:06:30 <Diablo-D3> especially when they let charlie sheen ahve an account
3374 2011-03-02 20:06:31 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, chrome 9.0.7.x?
3375 2011-03-02 20:06:34 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lol
3376 2011-03-02 20:06:38 <Diablo-D3> they jumped the shark about 50 famous people ago
3377 2011-03-02 20:06:44 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: chrome dropped h264.
3378 2011-03-02 20:06:47 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: need to borrow a few apostrophes.. here.. '''''''''''''
3379 2011-03-02 20:07:06 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, oh so they did
3380 2011-03-02 20:07:13 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: :P
3381 2011-03-02 20:07:17 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, so apples just being ridiculous w/o WebM
3382 2011-03-02 20:07:27 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: basically yes.
3383 2011-03-02 20:07:45 <jrabbit> iirc they used to use flash.
3384 2011-03-02 20:07:46 <phantomcircuit> god damn it
3385 2011-03-02 20:07:50 <phantomcircuit> stupid intel drivers
3386 2011-03-02 20:07:54 <jrabbit> this is a step up
3387 2011-03-02 20:07:58 <Diablo-D3> alright Im going to bed
3388 2011-03-02 20:07:59 <Diablo-D3> night all
3389 2011-03-02 20:08:19 <phantomcircuit> screen flickers when using hw acceleration of video
3390 2011-03-02 20:08:20 <phantomcircuit> sigh
3391 2011-03-02 20:08:23 <midnightmagic> what happens to a transaction which is spent twice? like one account spends it into another, and then that other spends it into a third?
3392 2011-03-02 20:08:24 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: hahaha
3393 2011-03-02 20:08:50 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: now you're just hoarding them..
3394 2011-03-02 20:09:07 <jrabbit> lol
3395 2011-03-02 20:09:30 <phantomcircuit> http://codepad.org/dp0fBsbw
3396 2011-03-02 20:09:30 rgm3 is now known as rgm3_
3397 2011-03-02 20:09:31 <phantomcircuit> wtf
3398 2011-03-02 20:09:33 <phantomcircuit> >.>
3399 2011-03-02 20:09:53 <phantomcircuit> it's liek the driver is being reset
3400 2011-03-02 20:10:01 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: the first tx seen is used
3401 2011-03-02 20:10:23 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: double-spends are not relayed
3402 2011-03-02 20:10:52 <phantomcircuit> rofl
3403 2011-03-02 20:11:01 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3404 2011-03-02 20:11:16 <midnightmagic> but it wouldn't really be a double-spend because it's legitimately passing from one to another, then to another. just within one block. so the second couldn't spend anything without the 1st tx being seen anyway.
3405 2011-03-02 20:11:24 <luke-jr> cute, just noticed a bug in Spesmilo
3406 2011-03-02 20:11:28 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3407 2011-03-02 20:11:32 rgm3_ is now known as rgm3
3408 2011-03-02 20:11:37 <luke-jr> too bad it's utterly impossible to fix until we have a decent wallet protocol
3409 2011-03-02 20:12:13 <midnightmagic> luke-jr's todo list: 1) tonal. 2) decent wallet protocol.
3410 2011-03-02 20:12:36 <jgarzik> hehe
3411 2011-03-02 20:13:03 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: 1 depends on 2 :p
3412 2011-03-02 20:13:09 <luke-jr> to an extent
3413 2011-03-02 20:13:12 <midnightmagic> is there a rationale document somewhere which defines why 21 million, why two weeks, that sort of thing?
3414 2011-03-02 20:13:30 <CIA-55> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r8a9cad4 / util.cpp : Avoid sprintf decimal-point localization - http://bit.ly/eMbQqK
3415 2011-03-02 20:13:32 <CIA-55> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r411493b / (rpc.cpp util.cpp): Merge branch 'rounding' - http://bit.ly/fI6NKE
3416 2011-03-02 20:14:34 Necr0s has joined
3417 2011-03-02 20:23:09 <CIA-55> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rfa1b246 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/cdecker/DiabloMiner into cdecker-master - http://bit.ly/gUunfx
3418 2011-03-02 20:30:34 Guest28555 has joined
3419 2011-03-02 20:31:47 <CIA-55> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r6c118e4 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Make that a little saner - http://bit.ly/fWinkM
3420 2011-03-02 20:32:23 [Tycho] has joined
3421 2011-03-02 20:32:30 RichardG has joined
3422 2011-03-02 20:33:14 <retsilex> I found easy solution to all Ati drivers problems
3423 2011-03-02 20:33:39 <retsilex> works with sdk 2.1 to 2.4
3424 2011-03-02 20:33:40 <luke-jr> give your card to me?
3425 2011-03-02 20:34:04 <retsilex> no
3426 2011-03-02 20:34:05 <Diablo-D3> but there is no sdk 2.4
3427 2011-03-02 20:34:36 kelvie_ has joined
3428 2011-03-02 20:34:40 <phantomcircuit> i like how python has support for y2k bug handling
3429 2011-03-02 20:34:50 <retsilex> it will work with sdk 2.4
3430 2011-03-02 20:34:57 <Diablo-D3> retsilex: so whats your solution?
3431 2011-03-02 20:35:20 <retsilex> it is ment for linux users
3432 2011-03-02 20:35:36 <retsilex> Whenever Ati software acts like shit and you think this is biggest fail in software world (that affects your box),
3433 2011-03-02 20:35:49 <retsilex> open a flash web page. Especially on ati. Also, when mining.
3434 2011-03-02 20:35:57 <Diablo-D3> buh?
3435 2011-03-02 20:36:07 <retsilex> then you will not longer think Ati is biggest software crap
3436 2011-03-02 20:36:15 <retsilex> you will always be reminded :)
3437 2011-03-02 20:36:18 * Diablo-D3 puts retsilex on ignore
3438 2011-03-02 20:36:23 <phantomcircuit> retsilex, that makes absolutely no sense at all
3439 2011-03-02 20:36:26 <phantomcircuit> congratulations
3440 2011-03-02 20:36:36 <luke-jr> retsilex: no, then it will just say "You need to upgrade your Adobe Flash Player to watch this video. Download it from Adobe."
3441 2011-03-02 20:36:41 <luke-jr> what does that have to do with ATi?
3442 2011-03-02 20:36:41 <amiller> retsilex, i'm working on an adobe flash bitcoin miner are you interested
3443 2011-03-02 20:36:58 <retsilex> =)
3444 2011-03-02 20:37:01 <retsilex> really noone gets that
3445 2011-03-02 20:37:12 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, :P
3446 2011-03-02 20:37:31 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, mine just says "OH GOD WHY DONT YOU HAVE JAVASCRIPT *dies*"
3447 2011-03-02 20:37:39 <amiller> retsilex, how much faster is your method of running flash in the background in terms of MHps
3448 2011-03-02 20:37:44 <retsilex> "WTF ATI IS BIGGEST SHIT IN WORLD.... *turns on flash web page* oh wait.. ok, it could be worst... it could be like flash SHIT. *rainbows*"
3449 2011-03-02 20:38:07 * retsilex unignores Diablo-D3's sister
3450 2011-03-02 20:38:15 <luke-jr> retsilex: ATi works fine for me!
3451 2011-03-02 20:38:24 * retsilex calls his alimony attorney
3452 2011-03-02 20:38:43 <amiller> retsilex, does this help http://www.rainbowpuke.com/pics/page4/timothy-beard-rainbowpuke.jpg
3453 2011-03-02 20:38:56 <retsilex> heh
3454 2011-03-02 20:39:25 <Diablo-D3> and now Im going to bed
3455 2011-03-02 20:39:26 <Diablo-D3> night all
3456 2011-03-02 20:39:36 <molecular> n8
3457 2011-03-02 20:39:43 <retsilex> while going there, why not say hi from me to sis o/ bye
3458 2011-03-02 20:39:45 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, you said that already
3459 2011-03-02 20:39:47 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, xD
3460 2011-03-02 20:40:00 <retsilex> phantomcircuit: perhaps he ment he was going to the other one first
3461 2011-03-02 20:43:27 <MacRohard> is there some way to get data.json from bitcoinwatch.com not in a zipfile?
3462 2011-03-02 20:44:04 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3463 2011-03-02 20:53:40 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3464 2011-03-02 20:53:58 RichardG has joined
3465 2011-03-02 20:54:08 <lfm> you got something against zipfiles?
3466 2011-03-02 20:55:58 dishwara has quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
3467 2011-03-02 20:57:28 <necrodearia> How long has it been since the last block was generated?
3468 2011-03-02 20:58:30 <jrabbit> lfm: most httpd can gzip data :P
3469 2011-03-02 20:58:55 <necrodearia> ;;block,num
3470 2011-03-02 20:58:56 <gribble> Error: "block,num" is not a valid command.
3471 2011-03-02 20:59:00 <ArtForz> necrodearia: about 5 minutes I'd say
3472 2011-03-02 20:59:06 jercos has joined
3473 2011-03-02 20:59:10 <phantomcircuit> http://covertinferno.org/~phantomcircuit/btc.html
3474 2011-03-02 20:59:11 <phantomcircuit> lold
3475 2011-03-02 20:59:15 <necrodearia> ;;bc,blocks
3476 2011-03-02 20:59:18 <gribble> 111417
3477 2011-03-02 20:59:34 <phantomcircuit> ridiculous slow though
3478 2011-03-02 21:00:42 <lfm> 20:45:50 utc?
3479 2011-03-02 21:00:59 <ArtForz> yup
3480 2011-03-02 21:01:04 <jrabbit> hm deepbit went down...
3481 2011-03-02 21:01:17 <lfm> huh?
3482 2011-03-02 21:01:41 nd33 has joined
3483 2011-03-02 21:01:50 <jrabbit> http://deepbit.net/
3484 2011-03-02 21:02:15 <phantomcircuit> seems up to me
3485 2011-03-02 21:02:20 <phantomcircuit> unless you mean the pool went down
3486 2011-03-02 21:02:32 <jrabbit> the pool went down and login :P
3487 2011-03-02 21:03:31 <[Tycho]> There is a notice about maintenance.
3488 2011-03-02 21:04:11 <retsilex> ArtForz: 1408 cores * 800 MHz. *2 cards = should be 265*2 = 530 MHash. Guy on windows gets 630 ( http://i.imgur.com/80QS8.jpg ) so it seems drivers on windows did improved?
3489 2011-03-02 21:04:16 <retsilex> ArtForz: Mango-chan
3490 2011-03-02 21:04:27 <retsilex> (the card is better then expected since its overclocked)
3491 2011-03-02 21:04:30 <retsilex> its on win7 though
3492 2011-03-02 21:05:27 <ArtForz> huhwhat?
3493 2011-03-02 21:06:08 <retsilex> ArtForz: this guy claims hes using 6950 on windows7 and it works really well. I thought drivers where not yet good enough to deliver there expected speeds (expected from cores à clock)
3494 2011-03-02 21:06:11 <ArtForz> wildass guess, flashed with shader unlock and OCed
3495 2011-03-02 21:06:20 <retsilex> yes
3496 2011-03-02 21:06:44 <ArtForz> well, a 6970 at 910 or so should get those numbers
3497 2011-03-02 21:06:52 <phantomcircuit> the shader on a 6970 is locked?
3498 2011-03-02 21:06:53 <retsilex> what is shared unlock? 6950 comes with more shareding units but some are disabled in firmware?!
3499 2011-03-02 21:07:03 <phantomcircuit> oh 6950
3500 2011-03-02 21:07:23 <ArtForz> yes
3501 2011-03-02 21:07:33 <retsilex> what the fuck
3502 2011-03-02 21:07:34 <Mango-chan> yes
3503 2011-03-02 21:07:35 <retsilex> why they do that
3504 2011-03-02 21:07:35 <Mango-chan> unlocked
3505 2011-03-02 21:07:36 <ArtForz> 6950 only have shaders disabled by BIOS
3506 2011-03-02 21:07:36 <retsilex> Atiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
3507 2011-03-02 21:07:44 <Mango-chan> and @ 870
3508 2011-03-02 21:08:05 <ArtForz> as opposed to 5xxx and 68xx where they physically disable the shaders
3509 2011-03-02 21:08:20 <retsilex> ArtForz: btw at what clock can you run 5970 in a stable way? without reprobramming/flashing/changing voltage
3510 2011-03-02 21:08:20 <Mango-chan> i don't think ati cares
3511 2011-03-02 21:08:30 <ArtForz> depends on luck
3512 2011-03-02 21:08:30 Bister has joined
3513 2011-03-02 21:08:37 <ArtForz> between 800 and 900 usually
3514 2011-03-02 21:08:39 <retsilex> ArtForz: 800 is good result?
3515 2011-03-02 21:08:43 <ArtForz> not really
3516 2011-03-02 21:08:47 <ArtForz> my average is ~840
3517 2011-03-02 21:08:58 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, do they disable them to segment the market or because of defects?
3518 2011-03-02 21:09:06 <Mango-chan> segment market
3519 2011-03-02 21:09:09 <Mango-chan> both
3520 2011-03-02 21:09:11 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: yes (= only they know)
3521 2011-03-02 21:09:16 <phantomcircuit> k
3522 2011-03-02 21:09:16 <quellhorst> turned off my rig because it was making too much heat and didn't make any $
3523 2011-03-02 21:09:19 <Mango-chan> phantomcircuit
3524 2011-03-02 21:09:19 <ArtForz> my best card does 890/900
3525 2011-03-02 21:09:22 <Mango-chan> but the 6970 batches were too good
3526 2011-03-02 21:09:30 <Mango-chan> like, normally you have some good results
3527 2011-03-02 21:09:32 <phantomcircuit> quellhorst, what system?
3528 2011-03-02 21:09:35 <Mango-chan> they market those as higher end cards
3529 2011-03-02 21:09:38 <Mango-chan> and they have bad results
3530 2011-03-02 21:09:44 <Mango-chan> and they market those as lower end cards
3531 2011-03-02 21:09:48 <Mango-chan> (6970/6950)
3532 2011-03-02 21:09:49 <ArtForz> and ofc they need to fill all price segments
3533 2011-03-02 21:09:55 <Mango-chan> but supposedly, ati got too many good results
3534 2011-03-02 21:10:02 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: 640mhash/sec
3535 2011-03-02 21:10:08 <Bister> hey I'm new to bitcoin, just found it out
3536 2011-03-02 21:10:14 <Bister> guess i'm to late generating any coins it seems gah
3537 2011-03-02 21:10:24 <phantomcircuit> quellhorst, drop the clock a bit and keep going
3538 2011-03-02 21:10:25 <Bister> been trying half day, nothing
3539 2011-03-02 21:10:26 <phantomcircuit> :P
3540 2011-03-02 21:10:30 <ArtForz> lemme check something
3541 2011-03-02 21:10:49 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: i didn't even overclock
3542 2011-03-02 21:10:54 <quellhorst> how can i drop the clock?
3543 2011-03-02 21:11:05 <luke-jr> Bister: what video card?
3544 2011-03-02 21:11:09 <ArtForz> correcting my clmine numbers for more recent mienrs, I get 326Mh/s stock for a 6970
3545 2011-03-02 21:11:22 <luke-jr> Bister: or khash/sec?
3546 2011-03-02 21:11:30 <ArtForz> 272Mh/s stock 6950
3547 2011-03-02 21:11:32 <retsilex> ArtForz: so if my starts hanging @800, then nothing can be done, or it makes sense to unlock card and like, underclock memory, overvolt GPU or something
3548 2011-03-02 21:11:33 <Bister> 600~
3549 2011-03-02 21:11:41 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 600
3550 2011-03-02 21:11:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 12 years, 32 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 13 minutes, and 41 seconds
3551 2011-03-02 21:11:46 <retsilex> ArtForz: the temp is 86C then. it is not the problem, is it
3552 2011-03-02 21:11:52 <ArtForz> thats a bit high
3553 2011-03-02 21:11:57 <luke-jr> Bister: you'll spend more on electricity than you'll get mining
3554 2011-03-02 21:11:59 <ArtForz> try increasing fan speed
3555 2011-03-02 21:12:00 <Bister> I will get 1 coin after 12 years?
3556 2011-03-02 21:12:01 <retsilex> its also 85-86 @800
3557 2011-03-02 21:12:03 <Bister> lol
3558 2011-03-02 21:12:04 <ArtForz> also, try each gpu on its own
3559 2011-03-02 21:12:17 <ArtForz> usually one goes at least 30-40 mhz higher than the other
3560 2011-03-02 21:12:20 <phantomcircuit> lol
3561 2011-03-02 21:12:22 <luke-jr> Bister: that 13 years will go up every 2 weeks too
3562 2011-03-02 21:12:36 <luke-jr> Bister: mining is highly competitive. you need a decent GPU nowadays
3563 2011-03-02 21:12:38 <validus> Bister: no, you find a block submit it first and you get 50 bitcoins. but your looking at a min 12 years
3564 2011-03-02 21:12:43 <phantomcircuit> im getting 25 hashes/second with this js sha256 implementation
3565 2011-03-02 21:12:46 <phantomcircuit> that's pretty sad
3566 2011-03-02 21:12:50 <retsilex> ArtForz: you think it may destabilez from temperature? I puted a fan (bigass fan -> pc) that lowers -2C but still can crash @805, and instantly almost @820
3567 2011-03-02 21:13:04 <retsilex> phantomcircuit: that makes me a sad panda
3568 2011-03-02 21:13:04 <ArtForz> increase card fan speed
3569 2011-03-02 21:13:08 <Bister> hahaha
3570 2011-03-02 21:13:13 <ArtForz> with card fan on stock profile, VRMs run pretty hot
3571 2011-03-02 21:13:24 <retsilex> ArtForz: even the fucking max fan speed is locked in ati cards O_o ?
3572 2011-03-02 21:13:26 <luke-jr> Bister: 600 kH/s sounds like an IGP
3573 2011-03-02 21:13:30 <luke-jr> or CPU
3574 2011-03-02 21:13:40 <ArtForz> auto fanspeed on 5970 never goes over 50%
3575 2011-03-02 21:13:44 <Bister> I got lots of stuff running now I haven't like tried serious
3576 2011-03-02 21:13:44 <retsilex> ArtForz: I assumed it auto-throlles fan speed to max.. I ned to reprogram?
3577 2011-03-02 21:13:49 <ArtForz> well, it goes to ~60 @ 100°C core
3578 2011-03-02 21:13:52 <retsilex> ArtForz: how can I do thsi easiest? Im on linux
3579 2011-03-02 21:14:00 <luke-jr> Bister: what miner are you using?
3580 2011-03-02 21:14:11 <ArtForz> aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'set fanspeed 0 80' to set 80% fanspeed
3581 2011-03-02 21:14:18 <necrodearia> I am noticing a strange issue on my computer locally and on vps, from bitcoin clients
3582 2011-03-02 21:14:29 <necrodearia> for the last two hours all transactions still show 0 confirmations
3583 2011-03-02 21:14:38 <necrodearia> Is anyone else noticing or experiencing similar issues?
3584 2011-03-02 21:14:40 <luke-jr> necrodearia: you're not including enough fee
3585 2011-03-02 21:14:41 <retsilex> HAHAHA lol ati. "GPU is now at 100 C instead 75 C, ok better kick the fan speed up a notch, from 50% to 60%. No need to panic and turn like 70% of fan speed yet"
3586 2011-03-02 21:15:02 <retsilex> seriously WHAT IS WRONG WITH ATI. whyyyyyy
3587 2011-03-02 21:15:04 <necrodearia> luke-jr, I didn't see any ability to include a fee?
3588 2011-03-02 21:15:05 <ArtForz> necrodearia: big backlog of TX, guess your tx (or their unconfirmed inputs) look spammy
3589 2011-03-02 21:15:18 <luke-jr> necrodearia: it's a command line option
3590 2011-03-02 21:15:25 <necrodearia> which option?
3591 2011-03-02 21:15:33 <jgarzik> -paytxfee
3592 2011-03-02 21:15:40 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, this seems to be an ongoing issue
3593 2011-03-02 21:15:48 <Bister> luke-jr: I'm using the regular Bincoin client?
3594 2011-03-02 21:15:50 * luke-jr wonders if -paytxfee rounds
3595 2011-03-02 21:15:58 <retsilex> at some points miners may start ignoring TXes with fee < 0.01 ?
3596 2011-03-02 21:15:59 <luke-jr> Bister: erm, that's just a crappy CPU miner. worthless.
3597 2011-03-02 21:15:59 <Bister> Listen I'm really new to this so I'm sort of trying to get into it
3598 2011-03-02 21:16:12 <luke-jr> Bister: do you have a decent video card?
3599 2011-03-02 21:16:26 <Bister> Besides I'm using lots of software right now and have been whole day
3600 2011-03-02 21:16:29 <necrodearia> How come paytxfee isn't default?
3601 2011-03-02 21:16:32 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: not really, so far it looks like it's working as intended
3602 2011-03-02 21:16:35 <retsilex> Bister: ok alternativy, do you have a hot sister, for my picture challange (the loot is ~15-30 BTC)
3603 2011-03-02 21:16:38 <Bister> photoshop, dreamweaver, firefox with 325235 windows etc.
3604 2011-03-02 21:16:43 <ArtForz> spammy looking tx get to sit in queue for ages
3605 2011-03-02 21:16:45 <luke-jr> necrodearia: it's a key=value thing, you need to tell it how much fee
3606 2011-03-02 21:16:45 <validus> using your gpu shouldnt really affect it
3607 2011-03-02 21:16:47 <Bister> retsilex Haha
3608 2011-03-02 21:16:56 <retsilex> >_>
3609 2011-03-02 21:16:59 <validus> i leave mine on 24/7, play games. search web and have 11 programs open right now
3610 2011-03-02 21:17:10 <necrodearia> how do I know how much to tell it?
3611 2011-03-02 21:17:29 <luke-jr> necrodearia: even 0.00000001 BTC fee would help
3612 2011-03-02 21:17:39 <luke-jr> necrodearia: be warned, original client MIGHT round it
3613 2011-03-02 21:17:41 <ArtForz> except standard client doesnt allow that
3614 2011-03-02 21:17:42 <luke-jr> not sure
3615 2011-03-02 21:17:42 <retsilex> FUUUUCk
3616 2011-03-02 21:17:44 <retsilex> my vent
3617 2011-03-02 21:17:45 <retsilex> MY FAN
3618 2011-03-02 21:17:48 <retsilex> my computer files off
3619 2011-03-02 21:17:49 <ArtForz> standard client rounds to 0.01
3620 2011-03-02 21:17:49 <retsilex> lol
3621 2011-03-02 21:17:51 <retsilex> ArtForz: !!!
3622 2011-03-02 21:17:57 <ArtForz> retsilex: what?
3623 2011-03-02 21:18:00 <retsilex> holly uck
3624 2011-03-02 21:18:02 <ArtForz> you should try 100%
3625 2011-03-02 21:18:04 <retsilex> lol shit help
3626 2011-03-02 21:18:10 Spenvo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3627 2011-03-02 21:18:19 <luke-jr> ArtForz: what did you do to retsilex?
3628 2011-03-02 21:18:22 <validus> if your running it hard and speed is rising. start high then go low
3629 2011-03-02 21:18:25 <luke-jr> Bister: what video card? :P
3630 2011-03-02 21:18:28 <validus> err speed - heat
3631 2011-03-02 21:18:33 <Bister> luke-jr sec will check
3632 2011-03-02 21:18:36 <ArtForz> luke-jr: tell him how to set fan on his 5970 to 80%
3633 2011-03-02 21:18:41 <retsilex> my roomates: WHAT THE F- computer is on fire??
3634 2011-03-02 21:18:41 <luke-jr> ArtForz: nfc?
3635 2011-03-02 21:18:44 <Bister> I got another machine too
3636 2011-03-02 21:18:49 <retsilex> ArtForz: haaah
3637 2011-03-02 21:18:56 <retsilex> ArtForz: how to reset it to default. lol....
3638 2011-03-02 21:19:00 * retsilex can't hear nothing
3639 2011-03-02 21:19:05 <validus> rm -rf /*
3640 2011-03-02 21:19:06 <ArtForz> you can't without restarting X
3641 2011-03-02 21:19:22 <retsilex> 'set fanspeed 0 80'
3642 2011-03-02 21:19:26 <retsilex> what is the first parameter?
3643 2011-03-02 21:19:31 nd33 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3644 2011-03-02 21:19:33 <ArtForz> unused
3645 2011-03-02 21:19:40 <retsilex> also.. 50 made it like x2 louder then before
3646 2011-03-02 21:19:48 <ArtForz> it only was 1 on really old dual-gou cards that had 2 fan controllers per card
3647 2011-03-02 21:20:06 <retsilex> so.. it was running on les then 50% was at 85C already
3648 2011-03-02 21:20:11 <ArtForz> yes
3649 2011-03-02 21:20:19 <validus> i keep my fans on 70 min
3650 2011-03-02 21:20:20 <ArtForz> default fan profile is WAY on the "silent" side
3651 2011-03-02 21:20:21 <validus> no matter what
3652 2011-03-02 21:20:29 <retsilex> I see why
3653 2011-03-02 21:20:39 <retsilex> with this fan @100 I assume the box would take off
3654 2011-03-02 21:20:41 <validus> and i dont even have that powerful of a machine lol
3655 2011-03-02 21:20:48 <ArtForz> I usually keep mine around 40-55%, but then I have 3 3kRPM 120x38mm case fans per box
3656 2011-03-02 21:20:51 <validus> one way to find out. strap it down. or start a line and charge a fee for a ride
3657 2011-03-02 21:20:58 <retsilex> fan@50 makes it impossible to work with computer in same room
3658 2011-03-02 21:21:08 <validus> ear plugs
3659 2011-03-02 21:21:12 <necrodearia> Has somebody established a client that takes precedence over the official bitcoin client?
3660 2011-03-02 21:21:13 <ArtForz> pussy.
3661 2011-03-02 21:21:15 <validus> or see about a water block
3662 2011-03-02 21:21:19 <validus> waaa theres noise
3663 2011-03-02 21:21:20 <validus> lol
3664 2011-03-02 21:21:25 <retsilex> ArtForz: can setting 100% fan demage something, e.g. the fan?
3665 2011-03-02 21:21:32 <validus> just turn the music up till you cant hear it anymore
3666 2011-03-02 21:21:36 <ArtForz> in theory, yes, in practice, no
3667 2011-03-02 21:21:36 * necrodearia checks gavin's git repo
3668 2011-03-02 21:21:45 * retsilex sets 75% fan like a boss
3669 2011-03-02 21:22:04 <ArtForz> I've been running a 5970 @ 100% fan for 5 months so far, still runs like a charm
3670 2011-03-02 21:22:24 <ArtForz> keep fingers and small rodents away ;)
3671 2011-03-02 21:22:31 <retsilex> I see the fan speed increases slowly?
3672 2011-03-02 21:22:32 <Bister> luke-jr: I have 1 computer with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200 and 1 computer with Nvidia Geforce 6200 TurboCache
3673 2011-03-02 21:22:37 <ArtForz> yea
3674 2011-03-02 21:22:38 <retsilex> eg gradually
3675 2011-03-02 21:22:43 <necrodearia> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin - Does this version of client also round 0.00000001 fee to 0.01?
3676 2011-03-02 21:22:48 * retsilex liftoff! enageg.
3677 2011-03-02 21:22:54 <ArtForz> card fan controller limits change to 2%/sec or so
3678 2011-03-02 21:22:55 <retsilex> Engage
3679 2011-03-02 21:23:08 <rgm3> I see that there are a lot of.... implementations? of a Radeon 5970. Like "Saphire" and such. Would they be equivalent for mining purposes?
3680 2011-03-02 21:23:12 <luke-jr> Bister: so not much decent
3681 2011-03-02 21:23:17 <midnightmagic> rgm3: yep.
3682 2011-03-02 21:23:25 <luke-jr> necrodearia: it shouldn't
3683 2011-03-02 21:23:25 <ArtForz> same shit, different sticker.
3684 2011-03-02 21:23:37 <retsilex> if I disconnect in a moment, then higher fan did not improved the stability =) ArtForz
3685 2011-03-02 21:23:40 <ArtForz> except for the $999 4GB ones
3686 2011-03-02 21:23:57 <luke-jr> Bister: HD 4200 probably does about 5 MH/s; 6200 probably 2-3 MH/s if it works at all
3687 2011-03-02 21:23:59 <rgm3> that's weird. So a VisionTek Radeon 5970 and a Sapphire Radeon 5970 and a Diamond Radeon 5970.... all same crap
3688 2011-03-02 21:24:07 <ArtForz> but iirc all other 5970s come from the same manufacturer
3689 2011-03-02 21:24:10 <rgm3> why is that?
3690 2011-03-02 21:24:11 <ArtForz> which is sapphire
3691 2011-03-02 21:24:24 <ArtForz> because sapphire does all AMD reference boards
3692 2011-03-02 21:24:25 <luke-jr> Bister: so at best you're looking at maybe ,,bc,calc 12000
3693 2011-03-02 21:24:25 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
3694 2011-03-02 21:24:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 12000
3695 2011-03-02 21:24:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 32 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes, and 41 seconds
3696 2011-03-02 21:24:43 <ArtForz> all the board partners do for ref cards is slap a sticker on and put it in a box
3697 2011-03-02 21:24:54 <Bister> And how much is a block? How much coins is that?
3698 2011-03-02 21:24:57 <rgm3> seems shady
3699 2011-03-02 21:25:02 <midnightmagic> Bister: 50.
3700 2011-03-02 21:25:08 <ArtForz> and bayme run a few OC stability tests and put the best cards aside for OC editions
3701 2011-03-02 21:25:09 <luke-jr> Bister: 50 BTC today. 25 BTC by the end of 32 weeks I think
3702 2011-03-02 21:25:18 <Bister> You guys understand that we are all working together to solve death star right
3703 2011-03-02 21:25:22 <retsilex> ArtForz: if fan does not help, then what other things to try? what program should be used for unlocking etc? Then: gpu voltage--, mem min clock--, mem voltage--, yes?
3704 2011-03-02 21:25:40 <ArtForz> well, if fan doesnt help much, you simply got a bad OCing card
3705 2011-03-02 21:25:52 <luke-jr> Bister: more like competing against each other âº
3706 2011-03-02 21:25:53 <Bister> luke-jr: What card are you using?
3707 2011-03-02 21:25:59 <Bister> ^^
3708 2011-03-02 21:26:03 <luke-jr> Bister: Radeon HD 5850
3709 2011-03-02 21:26:06 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
3710 2011-03-02 21:26:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 16 minutes, and 14 seconds
3711 2011-03-02 21:26:13 * retsilex increases clocks
3712 2011-03-02 21:26:14 <luke-jr> Bister: currently 10 days between blocks
3713 2011-03-02 21:26:27 <luke-jr> in theory. in practice I still get like a week
3714 2011-03-02 21:26:38 <bk128> luke-jr: not in a pool?
3715 2011-03-02 21:26:49 <luke-jr> bk128: no, pools I only get 50-80%
3716 2011-03-02 21:27:01 <midnightmagic> the only reason to sit in a pool is the regularity of payment. read: you want your BTC to play around with Right Now.
3717 2011-03-02 21:27:13 <bk128> luke-jr: 50-80% hashrate?
3718 2011-03-02 21:27:19 <midnightmagic> and there are plenty of reasons not to mine in a pool.
3719 2011-03-02 21:27:22 <luke-jr> bk128: 50-80% proceeds from bc,calc
3720 2011-03-02 21:27:48 larsig has joined
3721 2011-03-02 21:27:52 <bk128> slush's pool takes 2%
3722 2011-03-02 21:28:01 <luke-jr> bk128: with self-mining, I get 144% of what bc,calc estimates
3723 2011-03-02 21:28:09 <bk128> that's all luck
3724 2011-03-02 21:28:12 <ArtForz> luke-jr: thats called luck
3725 2011-03-02 21:28:17 <luke-jr> perhaps.
3726 2011-03-02 21:28:24 <luke-jr> doesn't change the fact that I do better without a pool :p
3727 2011-03-02 21:28:39 Aciid has joined
3728 2011-03-02 21:28:41 <luke-jr> I don't believe in luck though. âº
3729 2011-03-02 21:28:49 <bk128> chance/
3730 2011-03-02 21:28:51 <bk128> ?*
3731 2011-03-02 21:29:02 rgm3 has left ()
3732 2011-03-02 21:29:03 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, how much overall compute power do you have?
3733 2011-03-02 21:29:13 <bk128> I have a ghash and I keep it in a pool
3734 2011-03-02 21:29:18 altamic has joined
3735 2011-03-02 21:29:19 altamic has quit (Changing host)
3736 2011-03-02 21:29:19 altamic has joined
3737 2011-03-02 21:29:19 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 265 MH/s
3738 2011-03-02 21:29:26 <luke-jr> bk128: chance=luck
3739 2011-03-02 21:30:18 <midnightmagic> bk128: why?
3740 2011-03-02 21:30:48 <bk128> why keep it in a pool? so i'm guaranteed to make my money back. less risk
3741 2011-03-02 21:30:54 <retsilex> ArtForz: is there option to get current speed of fan (the real one or the programmed target)?
3742 2011-03-02 21:31:04 <luke-jr> bk128: pools don't guarantee anything.
3743 2011-03-02 21:31:10 <midnightmagic> aticonfig --odgt
3744 2011-03-02 21:31:12 <luke-jr> except maybe BitPenny style
3745 2011-03-02 21:31:14 <ArtForz> yes
3746 2011-03-02 21:31:16 <nanotube> bk128: well... there's also higher latency between you and the pool. so you lose something on top of the 2% fee. maybe another couple percent.
3747 2011-03-02 21:31:24 genjix has quit (Quit: leaving)
3748 2011-03-02 21:31:25 <bk128> luke-jr: yes they do they guarantee payout if you do work
3749 2011-03-02 21:31:29 <ArtForz> aticonfig --pplib-cmd 'get fanspeed 0'
3750 2011-03-02 21:31:34 <luke-jr> bk128: only if they find a block
3751 2011-03-02 21:31:42 <luke-jr> bk128: same as if you self-mine
3752 2011-03-02 21:31:47 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, which for a large enough pool is roughly the same
3753 2011-03-02 21:31:59 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: same for any decent video card
3754 2011-03-02 21:32:05 genjix has joined
3755 2011-03-02 21:32:06 <bk128> luke-jr: there's a much higher chance of a 80ghash pool finding blocks than you. as I said, less risk.
3756 2011-03-02 21:32:08 <retsilex> ArtForz: thx. I tried get fanspeed, didnt thought of that 0.
3757 2011-03-02 21:32:32 <ArtForz> yeha, atis documentation sucks
3758 2011-03-02 21:32:37 <luke-jr> bk128: it's basically guaranteed either way.
3759 2011-03-02 21:33:02 <midnightmagic> oh, woops. hey why do you use pplib-cmd? Mine works with: aticonfig --pplib 'get fanspeed 0'
3760 2011-03-02 21:33:02 <bk128> luke-jr: you're never guaranteed to find a block, whether or not you're in a pool. you could be super unlucky and never get one
3761 2011-03-02 21:33:13 <luke-jr> *basically*
3762 2011-03-02 21:33:21 <luke-jr> the pool doesn't provide a significant change in probability
3763 2011-03-02 21:33:30 <bk128> wat
3764 2011-03-02 21:33:49 <luke-jr> so long as bc,calc shows under 2 weeks, you've got the same probability of finding a block as the pool
3765 2011-03-02 21:33:53 <luke-jr> the difference is *how often*
3766 2011-03-02 21:34:13 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, no but if all you have is crappy cards that find a block on average every week, getting your BTC now is a reasonably good deal
3767 2011-03-02 21:34:19 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: "significant"? does it provide any?
3768 2011-03-02 21:34:38 <lfm> doesnt matter if its more than 2 weeks
3769 2011-03-02 21:34:38 <midnightmagic> phantomcircuit: if you're willing to trust that someone isn't screwing you over in an essentially undetectable way
3770 2011-03-02 21:34:45 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, in the long run the pool is a disadvantage since they take a %
3771 2011-03-02 21:34:59 <bk128> ;;bc,calc 1000000
3772 2011-03-02 21:35:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 2 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes, and 18 seconds
3773 2011-03-02 21:35:05 <bk128> ;;bc,calc 80000000
3774 2011-03-02 21:35:06 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 80000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 49 minutes and 44 seconds
3775 2011-03-02 21:35:13 <luke-jr> lfm: >2 weeks changes overall probability of ever finding it
3776 2011-03-02 21:35:16 <midnightmagic> that's not probability.
3777 2011-03-02 21:36:28 retsilex has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3778 2011-03-02 21:36:37 <luke-jr> anyhow, comparing pool vs self-mining, I get 35% from the pool that I would get mining by myself
3779 2011-03-02 21:36:44 <luke-jr> my decision is obvious
3780 2011-03-02 21:37:01 <lfm> luke-jr for the 2 weeks you have chance of finding block equal to share
3781 2011-03-02 21:37:05 <Aciid> wait so, it would be profitable to buy crossfire - 2 x 5970... in a long run?
3782 2011-03-02 21:37:35 <lfm> luke-jr and after two weeks oyu still have chance of finding blocks equal to those shares
3783 2011-03-02 21:37:51 <validus> if you can find them for the right price that card is expensive
3784 2011-03-02 21:38:21 <validus> might find a good deal on ebay if you wanna go that route
3785 2011-03-02 21:38:25 <Aciid> validus: yea I read that it can go easily over 100MH/s
3786 2011-03-02 21:38:33 <validus> i think 658 is the lowest price i found
3787 2011-03-02 21:38:37 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: you mean, you *got* 35% more from pool and are therefore basing your decision on past data.
3788 2011-03-02 21:38:48 <validus> theres a pastebin article with hashes listed
3789 2011-03-02 21:40:01 <validus> http://pastebin.com/AvymGnMJ
3790 2011-03-02 21:41:25 <luke-jr> Aciid: lol, even a single 5850 can do 265 MH/s
3791 2011-03-02 21:41:49 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no, the pool gave me 35% of what I get from self-mining
3792 2011-03-02 21:42:02 <midnightmagic> "got"
3793 2011-03-02 21:42:12 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: so if I get 100 BTC per day, the pool would have given me 35 BTC
3794 2011-03-02 21:42:17 <necrodearia> hmm, so I just reviewed some backlog from last couple days regarding fees, and it seems like there has been a bit of discussion regarding it. I was kind of shocked to realize that many of my bitcoin-related sites are seemingly breaking because of txfees. More importantly, I'm curious how many of my transactions have confirmations, but only one of them doesn't.
3795 2011-03-02 21:42:26 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: oh, i thought you were saying something else..
3796 2011-03-02 21:42:51 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: 35%?!
3797 2011-03-02 21:42:53 <Bister> It's interesting to make some easy bitcoins by generating, but sure should have got into this for a half year ago or so.
3798 2011-03-02 21:42:56 <midnightmagic> wtf?!
3799 2011-03-02 21:43:07 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: supposedly others have better luck with pools
3800 2011-03-02 21:43:11 <necrodearia> Is it related to perhaps whoever generates a block determines whether or not fees are required for transactions to be part of the block?
3801 2011-03-02 21:43:24 <luke-jr> Bister: cheaper to buy, with the hardware you have
3802 2011-03-02 21:43:39 <luke-jr> necrodearia: partly.
3803 2011-03-02 21:44:14 <BlueMatt> is there a reason addrIncoming is in the code? Is it to allow future port/bind options?
3804 2011-03-02 21:44:32 <Bister> I'm a little bit too noob to speculate in this "currency" as of now
3805 2011-03-02 21:44:48 <Bister> I mean I sure could invest in hardware to generate coins but
3806 2011-03-02 21:44:51 <gavinandresen> For anybody interested: (ArtForz?) http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4064
3807 2011-03-02 21:44:53 <bitbot> [PULL] Transaction backlog fix (part 1?) Connection refused.
3808 2011-03-02 21:45:02 <Bister> question is if the currency will be worth that much in the future
3809 2011-03-02 21:45:40 <validus> think of it as stock. it goes up and down
3810 2011-03-02 21:45:57 xelister has joined
3811 2011-03-02 21:46:07 <xelister> >_>
3812 2011-03-02 21:46:08 <luke-jr> Bister: I didn't mean buying hardware.
3813 2011-03-02 21:46:11 <Bister> This is definetely not as stock
3814 2011-03-02 21:46:25 <validus> ok then forex
3815 2011-03-02 21:46:31 <validus> i meant use it as an anology
3816 2011-03-02 21:46:36 <Bister> Sure I get it
3817 2011-03-02 21:46:48 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: Im looking at implementing port/bind options, how is the best way to store those? Is addrIncoming there for that, or is it used for something I'm not seeing?
3818 2011-03-02 21:46:49 <validus> you take a currency, trade it for another, make money or lose, forex almost completely in a way
3819 2011-03-02 21:47:13 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: hmm? you mean allow bitcoin to run on a port other than 8333?
3820 2011-03-02 21:47:15 <Bister> Well there are completely different parameters to this
3821 2011-03-02 21:47:21 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: follow JSON-RPC port changes as examples
3822 2011-03-02 21:47:22 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yes
3823 2011-03-02 21:47:24 <validus> most ppl you say forex and they have no idea what it is
3824 2011-03-02 21:47:27 <xelister> ArtForz: default fan controll is the optimal, or better by hand controll fan so that temperature never is over say 75 C ?
3825 2011-03-02 21:47:28 <Bister> You can't look at a country and what it's doing here
3826 2011-03-02 21:47:35 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: see https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/portoption
3827 2011-03-02 21:47:38 <validus> in a way but in the end its still trading for a currency for profit/loss
3828 2011-03-02 21:47:39 <Bister> to predict the future of it's currency
3829 2011-03-02 21:47:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: here's an old, outdated patch for rpc: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/patch.bitcoin-bindaddr
3830 2011-03-02 21:48:12 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: or https://gist.github.com/644933 (for just the diff)
3831 2011-03-02 21:48:49 <necrodearia> For transactions that have 0 confirmations due to no txfee, will they never be accepted or is it possible that if I wait long enough they will finally be accepted?
3832 2011-03-02 21:49:10 <validus> eventually will
3833 2011-03-02 21:49:34 <validus> should anyways
3834 2011-03-02 21:49:35 <BlueMatt> necrodearia: assuming all clients are running mainline, no they will not
3835 2011-03-02 21:49:49 <validus> i have no fees and never had confirmation fail
3836 2011-03-02 21:49:49 <BlueMatt> if output < 0.01 and txfee < 0.01
3837 2011-03-02 21:50:06 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: isnt there still the problem with the nBlockSize + nTxSize < 4000 ?
3838 2011-03-02 21:50:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I use different rules.
3839 2011-03-02 21:50:21 <ArtForz> no, wait, it takes care of that
3840 2011-03-02 21:50:28 <ArtForz> forgot it's a || ,not a &&
3841 2011-03-02 21:51:18 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: how difficult would it be, to allow the recipient to take a pending tx's output, and send most of it to a change address, leaving some portion as fee, to accelerate the original tx?
3842 2011-03-02 21:51:39 <ArtForz> luke-jr: impossible
3843 2011-03-02 21:51:43 nevezen has joined
3844 2011-03-02 21:51:45 <luke-jr> ArtForz: why?
3845 2011-03-02 21:51:48 <ArtForz> only sender could create a diff version of the tx
3846 2011-03-02 21:52:03 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: is there a reason for the 2h penalty if a client is using a different port?
3847 2011-03-02 21:52:04 <luke-jr> ArtForz: two tx in this case, the newer one depending on the first
3848 2011-03-02 21:52:15 <luke-jr> ArtForz: the newer one being a change-only send, with a fee attached
3849 2011-03-02 21:52:59 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: if you can run hundreds of instances of bitcoin on one machine Sybil attacks get easier
3850 2011-03-02 21:53:26 <gavinandresen> (where you try to flood the network with machines and get people to connect to only your machines so you can feed them a bogus version of the block chain)
3851 2011-03-02 21:53:45 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: is there a better way to check that than penalize non-default port clients for outgoing connections?
3852 2011-03-02 21:53:56 * jgarzik needs to dust off his "DNS seed node" patch
3853 2011-03-02 21:54:02 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: if there is, I'd love to hear about it....
3854 2011-03-02 21:54:31 <BlueMatt> Is there an easy way to check the list of currently conencted clients/known about clients for duplicates of the same ip?
3855 2011-03-02 21:54:39 <gavinandresen> Actually, that's not true. I don't want to hear about it, I want somebody to implement it and submit a patch
3856 2011-03-02 21:54:48 <jgarzik> :)
3857 2011-03-02 21:54:57 * jgarzik isn't convinced about the Sybil thing, but I'm biased
3858 2011-03-02 21:54:57 <BlueMatt> also could be needed in the case of ipv6 where youd have a /64 for each person
3859 2011-03-02 21:55:02 <necrodearia> In the case of a transaction being rejected, how many new block generations must I wait before the transaction is reattempted?
3860 2011-03-02 21:55:16 <ArtForz> one
3861 2011-03-02 21:55:22 <ArtForz> +5-30 min iirc
3862 2011-03-02 21:55:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: /48
3863 2011-03-02 21:55:32 <necrodearia> Ah, then it seems the transaction has been rejected for ~6 block generations
3864 2011-03-02 21:55:34 <BlueMatt> excuse me
3865 2011-03-02 21:55:49 <ArtForz> good chances are it is sitting in queue at miners
3866 2011-03-02 21:55:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: clients should try to keep a diverse collection of connections
3867 2011-03-02 21:55:55 <jgarzik> necrodearia: speaking of... I would love for a tx to have hard, defined lifetime. ie "all tx expire after CurrentBlockWhenTxWasCreated + 150"
3868 2011-03-02 21:55:56 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: network = /64, he provides /48 though the spec doesnt say that iirc
3869 2011-03-02 21:55:57 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: yup, IPv6 will be an issue... Perhaps detecting a Sybil attack will be easier than defending against it.
3870 2011-03-02 21:56:12 <ArtForz> anything unusual about it? like sending last coins in a wallet?
3871 2011-03-02 21:56:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: IANA policies say end customers should get a /48
3872 2011-03-02 21:56:26 <jgarzik> necrodearia: or "all tx expire after CurrentBlockWhenTxWasCreated + (7 * 144)"
3873 2011-03-02 21:56:32 <xelister> jgarzik: with 1000 USD I could get like 1000 IPs.. well but indeed, any port sort of makes it x65535 more powerfull? well just add a rule to limit to 1 connection per IP, and say 2 in one /C class ?
3874 2011-03-02 21:56:38 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3875 2011-03-02 21:56:59 <necrodearia> jgarzik, That is an interesting idea
3876 2011-03-02 21:57:03 <luke-jr> just try to keep a diverse collection of connectionsâ¦
3877 2011-03-02 21:57:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: really?, a /48 is alot and HE only allocates that if you specifically request it, are you sure /48 isnt for end user isps/business class clients
3878 2011-03-02 21:57:25 <luke-jr> prefer 8 connections on different /8s; then on different /16, etc
3879 2011-03-02 21:57:27 <BlueMatt> plus ipv6 spec says /64 is a "network"
3880 2011-03-02 21:57:35 <xelister> luke-jr: yeap thats what Im saying
3881 2011-03-02 21:57:43 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3882 2011-03-02 21:57:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: an end user is supposed to have a /48, in case they want multiple networks
3883 2011-03-02 21:58:19 <BlueMatt> oh, well no isp will ever listen to that, they barley want to give out 1 ipv4/customer
3884 2011-03-02 21:58:38 <BlueMatt> Id bet it will be a business class, extra price feature
3885 2011-03-02 21:58:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Time Warner gives 4 IPv4/customer
3886 2011-03-02 21:58:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: CenturyLink gives 2
3887 2011-03-02 21:59:01 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: used to be on them, since when can you get that
3888 2011-03-02 21:59:10 <luke-jr> since forever
3889 2011-03-02 21:59:15 <BlueMatt> as a standard customer, not a business?
3890 2011-03-02 21:59:17 <luke-jr> just have multiple machines do DHCP
3891 2011-03-02 21:59:19 <luke-jr> yes
3892 2011-03-02 21:59:23 <luke-jr> they're dynamic, but still 4
3893 2011-03-02 21:59:29 <BlueMatt> dam, never knew that
3894 2011-03-02 21:59:49 <BlueMatt> Though you can do a dhcp request-ip which makes them staticish
3895 2011-03-02 21:59:59 <luke-jr> sure
3896 2011-03-02 22:00:42 <xelister> green or crazy? --> http://www.itworld.com/hardware/138767/cebit-asus-motherboard-box-doubles-pc-case-video
3897 2011-03-02 22:01:44 <BlueMatt> xelister: amazing, now I can use my mobo case as a case and not feel like I built a ghetto case
3898 2011-03-02 22:03:52 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
3899 2011-03-02 22:03:59 <genjix> xelister, LOL
3900 2011-03-02 22:04:06 <genjix> i was just looking at it right this second
3901 2011-03-02 22:04:27 <genjix> literally opened that link from /. then alt tabbed and saw it here too
3902 2011-03-02 22:06:07 <xelister> =)
3903 2011-03-02 22:06:49 <necrodearia> "Server temporarily down for maintenance"
3904 2011-03-02 22:06:59 <xelister> 1-Cypress-core1: COULD NOT REPORT THE BLOCK to server! Block found, but server was unreachable!!!
3905 2011-03-02 22:07:08 <xelister> mining.bitcoin.cz
3906 2011-03-02 22:07:12 <necrodearia> ah, back up
3907 2011-03-02 22:07:24 <xelister> ERROR 1-Cypress-core2: INVALID BLOCK found. nonce=120515186 G=3357949793 H=3562040578
3908 2011-03-02 22:07:25 <xelister> uh huhuh.
3909 2011-03-02 22:07:31 <necrodearia> ^_^
3910 2011-03-02 22:11:42 dabron has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3911 2011-03-02 22:13:47 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3912 2011-03-02 22:16:13 <phantomcircuit> '[67][62][49][201][34][107][228][232]'
3913 2011-03-02 22:16:28 <phantomcircuit> i have a bytes object that is some how being converted into an str like that
3914 2011-03-02 22:16:45 <phantomcircuit> oops wrong chan
3915 2011-03-02 22:20:12 <necrodearia> Does anyone else use gentoo linux?
3916 2011-03-02 22:20:31 <necrodearia> And also gavin's bitcoin client?
3917 2011-03-02 22:20:51 tc_ has joined
3918 2011-03-02 22:21:09 <necrodearia> Alternatively, is there a list of available clients somewhere? I don't see anything at the wiki
3919 2011-03-02 22:21:33 <BlueMatt> There are none really working and stable yet, other than the mainline
3920 2011-03-02 22:21:35 <BlueMatt> or rpc clients
3921 2011-03-02 22:21:42 <necrodearia> mm
3922 2011-03-02 22:21:57 <necrodearia> Even gavin's client isn't stable?
3923 2011-03-02 22:22:05 <BlueMatt> gavin's is mainline
3924 2011-03-02 22:22:08 <necrodearia> ah
3925 2011-03-02 22:22:21 <jgarzik> necrodearia: git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git is the official client these days
3926 2011-03-02 22:22:25 <necrodearia> yep
3927 2011-03-02 22:22:31 <BlueMatt> its still beta though, and is missing features (though the backend is pretty much perfect)
3928 2011-03-02 22:22:39 <necrodearia> missing features?
3929 2011-03-02 22:22:43 <BlueMatt> not perfect, but implemented
3930 2011-03-02 22:23:10 <necrodearia> Ah, http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=list_of_patches is deprecated I imagine
3931 2011-03-02 22:23:11 <BlueMatt> ie different port, ipv6, upnp, subcent handling
3932 2011-03-02 22:23:20 <BlueMatt> yea
3933 2011-03-02 22:23:47 <necrodearia> Is there a more useful resource for list of patches?
3934 2011-03-02 22:24:37 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin see branches and forks
3935 2011-03-02 22:25:55 larsig has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3936 2011-03-02 22:26:16 <necrodearia> My gentoo ebuild is broken and requires fixing. I was wondering if anyone is interested to take over, preferably someone with actual gentoo ebuild development experience
3937 2011-03-02 22:26:28 <Syke> Can a miner solve a block when there are no other transactions since the last block?
3938 2011-03-02 22:26:46 <BlueMatt> Syke: yes, a block can exist w/ no actual txes
3939 2011-03-02 22:27:08 <necrodearia> bonsaikitten: Are you familiar with ebuild development?
3940 2011-03-02 22:27:24 tc_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3941 2011-03-02 22:27:34 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, ebuild for the mainline client?
3942 2011-03-02 22:27:51 <necrodearia> phantomcircuit, for latest git snapshot
3943 2011-03-02 22:27:52 <luke-jr> Syke: a miner can also ignore 1000s of tx and make an empty block without them included
3944 2011-03-02 22:28:54 <bonsaikitten> necrodearia: yes, but I don't care about messed up wxGTK apps with broken buildsystems
3945 2011-03-02 22:29:09 <necrodearia> bonsaikitten, I agree. Is that still an issue from upstream?
3946 2011-03-02 22:29:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: don't forget Gitorious side branches
3947 2011-03-02 22:29:37 <bonsaikitten> necrodearia: I don't really have time for such experiments at the moment :(
3948 2011-03-02 22:29:48 <necrodearia> okay
3949 2011-03-02 22:30:10 <BlueMatt> Has anyone ever taken a look at transmission's peer management, I have a feeling some of its code could be very useful in peer management in bitcoin
3950 2011-03-02 22:30:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: BitTorrent is not as vulnerable as BitCoin
3951 2011-03-02 22:31:17 <luke-jr> BitCoin Peers need to look for diversity in peers. BitTorrent Peers want to get closer, less diverse.
3952 2011-03-02 22:31:27 <BlueMatt> I know, but they spend time optimizing their code to connect to the best peers, though we are doing the opposite (connecting far on the net) it might be easy to port?
3953 2011-03-02 22:31:38 <BlueMatt> We are doing the exact opposite (almost) maybe its easy to port
3954 2011-03-02 22:32:24 <jgarzik> port?
3955 2011-03-02 22:32:41 <jgarzik> from python twisted to C++ boost?
3956 2011-03-02 22:32:49 <BlueMatt> transmission is C
3957 2011-03-02 22:33:09 <quellhorst> just moved mining operations into the garage, gonna see if that can keep the hot temps out of my place.
3958 2011-03-02 22:33:10 <BlueMatt> though maybe Im completely wrong, I have no idea how they did it
3959 2011-03-02 22:33:25 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3960 2011-03-02 22:34:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: maybe
3961 2011-03-02 22:36:09 <necrodearia> hmm, still 0 confirmations
3962 2011-03-02 22:36:24 <necrodearia> over two hours of waiting
3963 2011-03-02 22:36:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: but beware: Transmission is GPLv2
3964 2011-03-02 22:37:55 <BlueMatt> well then maybe its just easier to write our own...
3965 2011-03-02 22:38:28 <Necr0s> There's libtorrent also, which I think is C.
3966 2011-03-02 22:38:40 <BlueMatt> Plus, on second thought network diversity is very different than connecting to far network nodes which is opposite of bittorrent
3967 2011-03-02 22:39:12 skeledrew has joined
3968 2011-03-02 22:39:18 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
3969 2011-03-02 22:39:44 <BlueMatt> whats the best way to write a fast algorithm to do that though, it seems like the simplest, most effective ones would be o(n^2) at least...
3970 2011-03-02 22:40:00 Tril has joined
3971 2011-03-02 22:40:35 mmarker has joined
3972 2011-03-02 22:40:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you won't get far trying to apply BT code to bitcoin
3973 2011-03-02 22:40:52 <jrabbit> http://www.mattbors.com/strips/732.gif lol
3974 2011-03-02 22:41:12 <mmarker> ;;bc,calcd 12400 1
3975 2011-03-02 22:41:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12400 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 5 minutes and 46 seconds
3976 2011-03-02 22:41:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hence my comment two up
3977 2011-03-02 22:41:24 <mmarker> Ok, I finally defeated my demon, I believe
3978 2011-03-02 22:41:35 <jgarzik> mmarker: calling convention?
3979 2011-03-02 22:41:37 <mmarker> sha256 results similar to C code
3980 2011-03-02 22:41:44 <mmarker> jgarzik: Me fail math.
3981 2011-03-02 22:42:09 <mmarker> I need to reimplement the loop in ASM, I lost 1/2 of the speed to make sure I have a working sha256 core
3982 2011-03-02 22:42:15 Sahtor has quit (Quit: Sahtor)
3983 2011-03-02 22:42:34 <mmarker> but I want to make sure I get a valid getwork verified before declaring victory
3984 2011-03-02 22:42:54 <mmarker> AND before hacking on the code some more so I have a known good point
3985 2011-03-02 22:43:49 alhazred has joined
3986 2011-03-02 22:43:53 alhazred is now known as dirtyfilthy
3987 2011-03-02 22:44:07 <mmarker> Hmm, foundwork, not good
3988 2011-03-02 22:44:35 <mmarker> Guess I need to rig up a good block, and make sure my selection code is correct.
3989 2011-03-02 22:45:12 <mmarker> err, wait.
3990 2011-03-02 22:45:43 <mmarker> Oh hell
3991 2011-03-02 22:45:50 <mmarker> I never update the work with the found nonce
3992 2011-03-02 22:45:52 <mmarker> son of a
3993 2011-03-02 22:48:33 <mmarker> err, or I did
3994 2011-03-02 22:48:38 <mmarker> maybe sending the wrong one...
3995 2011-03-02 22:48:44 * mmarker checks
3996 2011-03-02 22:49:47 <mmarker> Hmm, that shouldn't happen...
3997 2011-03-02 22:50:24 <mmarker> Or maybe if I checked that H==0
3998 2011-03-02 22:50:28 <mmarker> Instead of A
3999 2011-03-02 22:50:35 rgm3 has joined
4000 2011-03-02 22:50:49 <knotwork> is it safe for multiple clients to use the same blockchain databases at the same time?
4001 2011-03-02 22:50:49 mmarker has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
4002 2011-03-02 22:51:07 validus has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
4003 2011-03-02 22:51:09 <phantomcircuit> knotwork, probably not
4004 2011-03-02 22:51:36 <knotwork> I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of Berkely DB's advantages of other DB libraries
4005 2011-03-02 22:51:55 <knotwork> is that it is safe for multiple processes to use it?
4006 2011-03-02 22:52:15 Ratchet has left ("Follow the blue rabbit - http://freenetproject.org")
4007 2011-03-02 22:52:22 <knotwork> some article about some corporation buying up Berkely DB so its not going to be free/open anymore
4008 2011-03-02 22:52:39 <knotwork> mentioned people like it over free alternatives for that and other reasons
4009 2011-03-02 22:52:40 <BlueMatt> the db, yes whether the btc client will freak, no idea
4010 2011-03-02 22:52:55 <BlueMatt> yea oracle bought bdb
4011 2011-03-02 22:53:06 <knotwork> I wanted to give users their own wallets, without duplicating block chain per user
4012 2011-03-02 22:53:23 <lfm> doesnt matter if futre bdb is non free we can still use the free one
4013 2011-03-02 22:53:37 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4014 2011-03-02 22:53:40 <knotwork> so figured I give them their own .bitcoin type directory, but, use symlinks (or links if forced to but prefer
4015 2011-03-02 22:53:53 <knotwork> symlinks so I can see them easily when I do ls)
4016 2011-03-02 22:54:06 <phantomcircuit> knotwork, the problem is that i dont think the client uses transactions
4017 2011-03-02 22:54:10 <knotwork> lfm exactly, and I noticed we do use berkely
4018 2011-03-02 22:54:13 <phantomcircuit> so stuff could potentially go wrong
4019 2011-03-02 22:54:19 <lfm> in fact oracle (and sun) have been making non-free bdb versions for a long time
4020 2011-03-02 22:54:41 <knotwork> so how does ont normally do it? all the users all in the site's own wallet? maybe using the wallet's
4021 2011-03-02 22:54:57 <knotwork> account system to group them into an other people's addresses account?
4022 2011-03-02 22:55:24 <knotwork> maybe using label system that bitcoind doesnt seem to offer access to to label each address with user's username?
4023 2011-03-02 22:55:30 <knotwork> s/ont/one/
4024 2011-03-02 22:55:46 <jgarzik> knotwork: that's what the accounts system is there for
4025 2011-03-02 22:56:06 <knotwork> ah give each user an entire account instead of just an address?
4026 2011-03-02 22:56:10 <luke-jr> knotwork: they can't make the current version proprietary
4027 2011-03-02 22:56:15 <knotwork> so each user can have multiple addresses
4028 2011-03-02 22:56:29 AmpEater has joined
4029 2011-03-02 22:56:50 rgm3 has quit (Quit: rgm3)
4030 2011-03-02 22:58:00 rgm3 has joined
4031 2011-03-02 22:59:23 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4032 2011-03-02 22:59:34 <knotwork> I guess that is why there is no get balance for an address too
4033 2011-03-02 23:02:01 <knotwork> hmm is looks like getaccountaddress accountname makes up a new address if the account does not exist
4034 2011-03-02 23:02:21 amiller has joined
4035 2011-03-02 23:03:02 <phantomcircuit> as it stands how do pools know that miners are actually generating the blocks they claim to be?
4036 2011-03-02 23:03:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: shares
4037 2011-03-02 23:03:47 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the pool just runs the miner at difficulty 1
4038 2011-03-02 23:04:03 <phantomcircuit> oh
4039 2011-03-02 23:04:08 <luke-jr> each difficulty-1-block counts as a share
4040 2011-03-02 23:04:19 <phantomcircuit> that makes sense
4041 2011-03-02 23:04:52 <phantomcircuit> sending every generated block seemed unlikely :P
4042 2011-03-02 23:05:31 <knotwork> getaccountaddress "Your Address" doesnt work even though default address is named "Your Address"
4043 2011-03-02 23:05:58 <phantomcircuit> The protocol should support submitting completed blocks, such that it can get (just) addresses from an upstream pool to generate to, and send all completed blocks to that pool for verification and counting (and possibly submission to the network). This can reduce the pool's load.
4044 2011-03-02 23:06:02 <phantomcircuit> what does that mean?
4045 2011-03-02 23:07:56 <phantomcircuit> At the time the service was operated under the name Bitcoin Pooled Mining Server and operated on a share strategy that involved an artificially low difficulty method that has since been determined to be vulnerable to cheating.
4046 2011-03-02 23:07:58 <phantomcircuit> wat?
4047 2011-03-02 23:08:02 <phantomcircuit> how could you cheat
4048 2011-03-02 23:09:06 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
4049 2011-03-02 23:09:29 validus has joined
4050 2011-03-02 23:10:19 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I suggested that a while ago
4051 2011-03-02 23:10:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, explain what i means though
4052 2011-03-02 23:11:13 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, like a daisy chained pool?
4053 2011-03-02 23:11:46 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the pool just gives you an address, and your peer does the work of building the block
4054 2011-03-02 23:12:31 <phantomcircuit> honestly i just think i failed at reading your sentence
4055 2011-03-02 23:13:07 <necrodearia> I updated bitcoin-git-9999 gentoo ebuild. It seems to compile okay again.
4056 2011-03-02 23:15:22 <phantomcircuit> so lets see
4057 2011-03-02 23:15:40 <phantomcircuit> a miner just needs version/prev_hash,merkle_root/difficulty
4058 2011-03-02 23:16:19 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what you're saying is that the pool gives you an address, you try to build the blocks and you send shares to that address supplied by the pool?
4059 2011-03-02 23:16:52 <Necr0s> Hm, question about mining...is the "goal" bound to the current state of the distributed db?
4060 2011-03-02 23:17:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the pool gives you an address, you create a merkle tree + block with generation set to that address, and mine as normal; when you find a share, you send the full block to the pool
4061 2011-03-02 23:17:19 <jgarzik> Necr0s: you're always hashing the current block
4062 2011-03-02 23:17:25 <jgarzik> which by definition changes
4063 2011-03-02 23:17:26 <lfm> the miner only needs the prebuilt block header (80 bytes)
4064 2011-03-02 23:17:39 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, OH i see what you're saying
4065 2011-03-02 23:18:01 <Necr0s> So if another block is added to the chain, any solution found is invalid until the new block is received and processed?
4066 2011-03-02 23:18:03 <jgarzik> and midstate already covers the first 64 bytes IIRC
4067 2011-03-02 23:18:04 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: however, that method would only ever work with slush-style or BitPenny-style pools
4068 2011-03-02 23:18:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, how does that help though?
4069 2011-03-02 23:18:25 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh share not block
4070 2011-03-02 23:18:27 <luke-jr> Necr0s: no, then you have 2 competing chains
4071 2011-03-02 23:18:39 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it helps, because the pool no longer needs to build the merkle trees
4072 2011-03-02 23:18:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, isn't that basically how the current system works?
4073 2011-03-02 23:18:59 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, except the merkle_root has to be updated
4074 2011-03-02 23:19:09 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4075 2011-03-02 23:19:18 <Necr0s> So it's important for a miner to stay current with the state of the network.
4076 2011-03-02 23:19:22 kelvie_` has joined
4077 2011-03-02 23:19:37 <lfm> Necr0s: ya, you cant mine offline
4078 2011-03-02 23:19:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the only disadvantage of that, is that the miner has to be connected to a peer
4079 2011-03-02 23:19:54 <phantomcircuit> which i guess they basically already are with the pool
4080 2011-03-02 23:20:00 <Necr0s> I had a miner "lose the race" once, and "find a solution" for a stale block.
4081 2011-03-02 23:20:11 <phantomcircuit> Necr0s, lol that sucks
4082 2011-03-02 23:20:16 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: right now, the pool needs to build the merkle tree
4083 2011-03-02 23:20:19 kelvie_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4084 2011-03-02 23:20:19 <Necr0s> There was like an 11 minute gap between when it was found and when the block was added.
4085 2011-03-02 23:20:29 <Necr0s> Somehow it desynchronised that badly.
4086 2011-03-02 23:20:32 <luke-jr> Necr0s: so did I.
4087 2011-03-02 23:20:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah i get what you're saying that would result in a significant drop in traffic
4088 2011-03-02 23:20:38 <luke-jr> Necr0s: but my solution won out in the end
4089 2011-03-02 23:20:47 <Necr0s> heh, I don't think mine did.
4090 2011-03-02 23:20:59 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no, traffic would increase I think
4091 2011-03-02 23:21:06 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it would result in a drop of pool CPU time
4092 2011-03-02 23:21:32 kelvie_` is now known as kelvie_
4093 2011-03-02 23:21:32 <luke-jr> Necr0s: solution races are where your internet connections count I think
4094 2011-03-02 23:21:43 <Necr0s> My internets suck.
4095 2011-03-02 23:21:50 * necrodearia changes nickname for convenience
4096 2011-03-02 23:21:53 necrodearia is now known as mizerydearia
4097 2011-03-02 23:21:59 <Necr0s> multisecond latency is a common occurance.
4098 2011-03-02 23:22:40 <Necr0s> 339507 packets transmitted, 331764 packets received, 2.3% packet loss
4099 2011-03-02 23:22:40 <Necr0s> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 112.604/1612.937/36823.945/2782.412 ms
4100 2011-03-02 23:23:18 <lfm> Necr0s: how many internets do you have?
4101 2011-03-02 23:23:29 <Necr0s> Just this one now.
4102 2011-03-02 23:23:48 <Necr0s> verizon evdo, out in the sticks.
4103 2011-03-02 23:23:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, wouldn't it reduce the bandwidth load on the pool server substantially?
4104 2011-03-02 23:24:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no, it would increase it
4105 2011-03-02 23:24:10 <lfm> Necr0s: I think they're all the same internet actually
4106 2011-03-02 23:24:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: right now, the pool only sends/receives hash data
4107 2011-03-02 23:24:12 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the pool server wouldn't have to notify the miners of changes to the merkle_root
4108 2011-03-02 23:24:24 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: hmm, maybe
4109 2011-03-02 23:24:31 <Necr0s> Ah, the unified internet theorum.
4110 2011-03-02 23:24:35 <luke-jr> but every solution would require sending a full block
4111 2011-03-02 23:24:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, why?
4112 2011-03-02 23:24:51 <luke-jr> which would actually encourage pooled miners to make empty blocksâ¦
4113 2011-03-02 23:24:59 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the pool would only have to send the miner the address and any solved block headers
4114 2011-03-02 23:25:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: because the pool can't verify the block without it
4115 2011-03-02 23:25:37 <luke-jr> if you leave out the block data, a cheater can get shares by skipping the merkle creation
4116 2011-03-02 23:25:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what incentive is there to use a fake merkle_root?
4117 2011-03-02 23:25:52 <phantomcircuit> surely that cannot be an expensive operation
4118 2011-03-02 23:26:19 <phantomcircuit> it only changes when you get a new tx and compared with the rate at which blocks have to be generated to ever find a valid one that should be trivial
4119 2011-03-02 23:26:52 <phantomcircuit> but either way, block headers + list of transactions should be enough to verify the block
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4123 2011-03-02 23:28:40 Jeroenz0r_ is now known as Jeroenz0r
4124 2011-03-02 23:29:48 <lfm> merkle creattion is like about 2 hashes per txn. considering we routinly do 1000s of hashes per sec, it is not expensive
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4133 2011-03-02 23:38:48 <phantomcircuit> what's the point of lock_time for transactions?
4134 2011-03-02 23:39:01 <phantomcircuit> why would you advertise a transaction that cannot be included in a block?
4135 2011-03-02 23:40:33 <lfm> for escrow maybe? I dunno
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4141 2011-03-02 23:43:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, any idea?
4142 2011-03-02 23:45:45 <knotwork> awesome I thought I'd written over my hub tradebot's script with the script the useragent bots use
4143 2011-03-02 23:46:05 <knotwork> but I found a copy so I didnt lose all that work afterall
4144 2011-03-02 23:46:05 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yeah for escrow, seems kind of useless though
4145 2011-03-02 23:47:08 doublec has joined
4146 2011-03-02 23:47:16 <gwillen> knotwork: use version control ;-)
4147 2011-03-02 23:47:47 <knotwork> yeah I had simply just been hacking wildly 36 or 48 hours or whatever and got really confused
4148 2011-03-02 23:48:04 <gwillen> *nods*
4149 2011-03-02 23:48:14 <knotwork> actually forgot for a moment that there were 2 tradebot scripts one for agents on for an escrow/warehouse hub
4150 2011-03-02 23:48:18 <gwillen> ahhh
4151 2011-03-02 23:48:19 <gwillen> *nods*
4152 2011-03-02 23:48:25 <gwillen> and you were not using version control? ;-)
4153 2011-03-02 23:48:51 <knotwork> I only use version control for grabbing code from sourceforge etc, not locally never have
4154 2011-03-02 23:49:14 <knotwork> tar -cpvzf source.tgz sourcedir is all I normally use
4155 2011-03-02 23:49:30 <knotwork> well with cp .tgz .tgz.od first
4156 2011-03-02 23:49:31 dazoe has joined
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4158 2011-03-02 23:50:11 <knotwork> I survived decades without version control so stuck in my ways
4159 2011-03-02 23:50:44 <knotwork> finding this script again I'd thought lost - even researched linux "undelete" concepts to try to restore
4160 2011-03-02 23:50:46 <phantomcircuit> knotwork, heh
4161 2011-03-02 23:50:59 <phantomcircuit> knotwork, there's basically no undelete for extX
4162 2011-03-02 23:51:03 <knotwork> simply restores my faith in how robust my stupid ancient methods are
4163 2011-03-02 23:51:24 <knotwork> yeah I found out there isn't. wlel there is a gamble maybe if umount soon enough
4164 2011-03-02 23:51:51 <phantomcircuit> wat
4165 2011-03-02 23:51:52 <knotwork> but see I dont need it! I can totally screw up think I lost it all and STILL there it is, safe and sound!
4166 2011-03-02 23:51:57 <phantomcircuit> lol you've read some bad info
4167 2011-03-02 23:51:58 rgm3 has quit (Quit: rgm3)
4168 2011-03-02 23:52:00 <phantomcircuit> never unmount
4169 2011-03-02 23:52:07 <phantomcircuit> you might still have open fds
4170 2011-03-02 23:52:13 <knotwork> I didnt umount
4171 2011-03-02 23:52:31 <phantomcircuit> if you lose data remount ro and start checking open fds
4172 2011-03-02 23:52:40 <knotwork> but the few search0unlinked-blocks tools I tried did not find the "missing" file
4173 2011-03-02 23:53:11 <knotwork> but I found it myself just now! ha. seems I at some point had automatically without thinking about it nor
4174 2011-03-02 23:53:19 <knotwork> remember I had done it had stashed a copy :)
4175 2011-03-02 23:54:09 <knotwork> next time I'll know its not that I was so tired I lost my work but rather so tired I forgot I'd already stashed a backup
4176 2011-03-02 23:56:44 <knotwork> until I discovered bitcoin all my trading bots assumed currency is totally local to each planet so
4177 2011-03-02 23:57:02 <knotwork> forex was not included, you'd move goods to move value
4178 2011-03-02 23:57:34 <knotwork> but now I think assuming everyone uses bitcoin forex could work even across distances no goods are likely to move across
4179 2011-03-02 23:58:27 <luke-jr> lfm: phantomcircuit: reality is, slush says CPU usage is the biggest problem; and that's ALL the pool is doing
4180 2011-03-02 23:58:48 <knotwork> as long as each currency can be converted back into bitcoin all of a sudden there IS something you can buy
4181 2011-03-02 23:58:55 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so set the difficulty higher
4182 2011-03-02 23:59:09 <knotwork> on some distant planet with its local currency that you can actually use elsewhere