1 2011-03-04 00:00:04 <sipa> otherwise they are just random pieces of data
   2 2011-03-04 00:00:11 <sipa> without order
   3 2011-03-04 00:00:22 <sipa> and two conflicting ones can exist, without knowing which to accept
   4 2011-03-04 00:00:31 <sipa> the block chain provides arbitration for this
   5 2011-03-04 00:00:41 <amiller> it's easy to make a hash that checks against double spending - it's not easy to decentralize the operation because that requires tolerance for bad nodes, etc
   6 2011-03-04 00:00:59 <d-snp> I know, but why is it a problem that not everyone knows the most recent block yet? they can just throw away their current blocks and use the longest chain?
   7 2011-03-04 00:01:08 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
   8 2011-03-04 00:01:19 <sipa> oh, i mean for miners
   9 2011-03-04 00:01:30 <sipa> if i found block number N already
  10 2011-03-04 00:01:31 yawniek has joined
  11 2011-03-04 00:01:37 <sipa> and you only found its predecessor N-1
  12 2011-03-04 00:01:40 <sipa> *know about
  13 2011-03-04 00:01:48 <sipa> you'll try to find a block N yourself
  14 2011-03-04 00:01:55 <sipa> but that won't be accepted by others
  15 2011-03-04 00:02:03 <sipa> as there is already an equally-good one
  16 2011-03-04 00:02:14 genjix has quit (Quit: leaving)
  17 2011-03-04 00:02:17 <sipa> if you make the generation rate 1 minute
  18 2011-03-04 00:02:19 <d-snp> oh.. and you fear there will be miners that will be continuously 1 behind
  19 2011-03-04 00:02:35 genjix has joined
  20 2011-03-04 00:02:35 <d-snp> mmh
  21 2011-03-04 00:02:38 <sipa> it would happen *very* often that a miner finds a block without knowing one was already found
  22 2011-03-04 00:02:43 <sipa> causing lost work
  23 2011-03-04 00:03:07 thecoreh has joined
  24 2011-03-04 00:03:09 <sipa> all depends on the average duration a message takes to be propagated through the p2p network
  25 2011-03-04 00:04:47 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  26 2011-03-04 00:05:26 <Syke_> has anyone recently checked to see how long bitcoin messages are taking to propagate to most nodes?
  27 2011-03-04 00:05:43 m87 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  28 2011-03-04 00:06:10 <andrewh> will convert youtube videos to mp4 for 1 btc each :O)
  29 2011-03-04 00:06:55 davex__ has joined
  30 2011-03-04 00:07:10 <amiller> that's a reasonable price
  31 2011-03-04 00:07:14 mattsmith has joined
  32 2011-03-04 00:07:19 <amiller> hmm
  33 2011-03-04 00:07:36 <andrewh> i'll even do the highest quality they've got
  34 2011-03-04 00:07:37 thecoreh is now known as coreh
  35 2011-03-04 00:07:59 <d-snp> Syke_: most nodes is not good enough
  36 2011-03-04 00:08:03 coreh is now known as TheCoreh
  37 2011-03-04 00:08:17 <d-snp> you need worstcase performance, or you will have nodes who are just not allowed to mine
  38 2011-03-04 00:08:28 <d-snp> unless you are ok with that, which actually I think is not a bad problem
  39 2011-03-04 00:08:36 genjix has quit (Quit: leaving)
  40 2011-03-04 00:08:48 <mattsmith> Would anyone mind helping me get my poclbm-gui miner to see bitcoind running on my linux server?  I did the steps here: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api and I'm able to start an openssl session from windows to bitcoind on the linux server but poblbm still wont connect (problems communicating with the bitcoin RPC)
  41 2011-03-04 00:08:57 genjix has joined
  42 2011-03-04 00:09:04 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
  43 2011-03-04 00:09:14 <d-snp> it would mean people in for example micronesia or congo would have very little chance of generating bitcoin
  44 2011-03-04 00:09:20 gasteve_ has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
  45 2011-03-04 00:10:10 genjix has joined
  46 2011-03-04 00:10:14 soultcer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  47 2011-03-04 00:10:16 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
  48 2011-03-04 00:10:55 <d-snp> imo demanding you get new blocks within 5 seconds is not harsh at all..
  49 2011-03-04 00:11:17 genjix has joined
  50 2011-03-04 00:11:29 <d-snp> has it ever been tested what the effects of aiming for 1 minute would be?
  51 2011-03-04 00:11:39 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
  52 2011-03-04 00:11:57 <lfm> d-amp go to the faucet for that level of impatients
  53 2011-03-04 00:12:17 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  54 2011-03-04 00:12:42 genjix has joined
  55 2011-03-04 00:12:47 <lfm> d-amp it is quite obvious the problems 1 min average block time woul make
  56 2011-03-04 00:12:48 soultcer has joined
  57 2011-03-04 00:14:11 <tcatm> ;;bc,markets
  58 2011-03-04 00:14:13 <gribble> bcEUR: 0.65 (41 BTC) 0.66/0.7 | bcLREUR: 0.565 (165 BTC) 0.66/None | bcLRUSD: 0.92 (4501 BTC) 0.9/0.93 | bcmLRUSD: 0.41 (500 BTC) None/None | bcmPPUSD: 0.79 (400 BTC) None/None | bcmPXGAU: 0.02 (400 BTC) None/None | bcPGAU: 0.021 (568.944 BTC) 0.0185/0.99 | btcexEUR: 0.5 (0.54 BTC) 0.27/0.69 | btcexJPY: 0.0001 (0.1 BTC) 1/None | btcexRUB: 35 (0.01 BTC) 28.51/35 | btcexUSD: 0.95 (116 BTC) (1 more message)
  59 2011-03-04 00:14:23 <Syke_> while we can't manage all nodes to see how long messages really take, we can take a sampling of many nodes and get an idea how long messages usually take.
  60 2011-03-04 00:15:32 <mattsmith> Any tips?
  61 2011-03-04 00:16:04 <lfm> buy low, sell high
  62 2011-03-04 00:16:14 <mattsmith> good point.
  63 2011-03-04 00:16:26 <mattsmith> how about for troubleshooting an RPC connection...
  64 2011-03-04 00:16:35 <d-snp> fiddler?
  65 2011-03-04 00:16:43 <d-snp> or eh, wireshark
  66 2011-03-04 00:16:59 <d-snp> lfm: I think the 10 minute acceptance time is something that prevents internet merchants from accepting bitcoin
  67 2011-03-04 00:17:00 <mattsmith> but I can do an openssl connection to the server just fine
  68 2011-03-04 00:17:11 <mattsmith> it's the poclbm program that's having a problem
  69 2011-03-04 00:17:12 <d-snp> so bitcoin would be something only banks would use?
  70 2011-03-04 00:17:16 <lfm> d-amp ok
  71 2011-03-04 00:17:32 <d-snp> what kind of client do you have that turns d-snp into d-amp? :D
  72 2011-03-04 00:18:07 <lfm> d-snp: you think the 90 day wait for credit card payment is better?
  73 2011-03-04 00:18:16 <mattsmith> I'll give the forum a try
  74 2011-03-04 00:18:19 mattsmith has left ()
  75 2011-03-04 00:18:22 <Syke_> "internet merchants"? they'd have no trouble with 10 minute confirmations. they don't have to hand over the good immediately like a brick-and-morter store would
  76 2011-03-04 00:18:43 <d-snp> Syke_: in a lot of cases they do
  77 2011-03-04 00:18:44 <Syke_> bitcoin is ideal for internet merchants
  78 2011-03-04 00:18:50 <Syke_> no chargebacks!
  79 2011-03-04 00:18:59 <Syke_> low/zero fees
  80 2011-03-04 00:19:47 <d-snp> if you buy something with a creditcard you can just charge it back?
  81 2011-03-04 00:19:55 <Syke_> yes
  82 2011-03-04 00:20:07 <d-snp> and banks don't look at you funny for it?
  83 2011-03-04 00:20:07 <Syke_> up to 60 days after
  84 2011-03-04 00:20:15 <d-snp> hmm
  85 2011-03-04 00:20:17 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  86 2011-03-04 00:20:21 <lfm> d-snp: ya, thats why MERCAHNTS hate credit cards (and paypal)
  87 2011-03-04 00:20:22 <Syke_> not at all if it's not your credit card!
  88 2011-03-04 00:20:44 <Syke_> steal a card number, buy stuff, card owner charges back all the charges. merchant is hung to dry.
  89 2011-03-04 00:21:03 <d-snp> where I live most people buy things over the internet using direct debit
  90 2011-03-04 00:21:08 <d-snp> much better system :P
  91 2011-03-04 00:21:13 <d-snp> no chargebacks :P
  92 2011-03-04 00:21:13 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U18VkI0uDxE
  93 2011-03-04 00:21:23 genjix has quit (Quit: leaving)
  94 2011-03-04 00:21:44 genjix has joined
  95 2011-03-04 00:21:44 genjix has quit (Changing host)
  96 2011-03-04 00:21:44 genjix has joined
  97 2011-03-04 00:21:55 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
  98 2011-03-04 00:21:57 <Syke_> U.S. debit card holders are guaranteed reversal rights by Federal Reserve Regulation E under the Electronic Funds Transfer Act.
  99 2011-03-04 00:22:07 <Syke_> pow, chargebacks
 100 2011-03-04 00:22:12 <d-snp> lol
 101 2011-03-04 00:22:30 <Diablo-D3> guaranteed? yes
 102 2011-03-04 00:22:30 genjix has joined
 103 2011-03-04 00:22:38 <d-snp> we are only allowed to return goods within 2 weeks
 104 2011-03-04 00:22:41 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
 105 2011-03-04 00:22:46 <Diablo-D3> without threatening the bank that you'll turn them over to the office of the comptroller of currency? hell no
 106 2011-03-04 00:23:01 <d-snp> hmm actually, I think you could even apply that to bought online mp3's
 107 2011-03-04 00:23:07 <Diablo-D3> want to scare the shit out of a bank? utter those words
 108 2011-03-04 00:23:20 genjix has joined
 109 2011-03-04 00:23:20 genjix has quit (Changing host)
 110 2011-03-04 00:23:20 genjix has joined
 111 2011-03-04 00:23:21 yawniek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 112 2011-03-04 00:23:28 <Diablo-D3> Ive always wanted to go to like NYC
 113 2011-03-04 00:23:31 <Diablo-D3> infront of the boa building
 114 2011-03-04 00:23:53 genjix is now known as blaasddsdssd
 115 2011-03-04 00:23:56 yawniek has joined
 116 2011-03-04 00:23:58 <Diablo-D3> with a giant version of the logo for the office of the comptroller of currency (assuming they have one)
 117 2011-03-04 00:24:03 <Diablo-D3> so big you can see it from the top floor
 118 2011-03-04 00:24:20 genjix has joined
 119 2011-03-04 00:24:20 genjix has quit (Changing host)
 120 2011-03-04 00:24:20 genjix has joined
 121 2011-03-04 00:24:45 <Diablo-D3> it will be the day that BoA wins the record in the guiness book of records for "loudest sound produced with one or more anuses in unison"
 122 2011-03-04 00:25:11 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
 123 2011-03-04 00:26:01 genjix has joined
 124 2011-03-04 00:26:01 genjix has quit (Changing host)
 125 2011-03-04 00:26:01 genjix has joined
 126 2011-03-04 00:26:26 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
 127 2011-03-04 00:26:48 <blaasddsdssd> wait 1000
 128 2011-03-04 00:27:03 <lfm> try "guess what I just saw on wikileaks" in their offices grin
 129 2011-03-04 00:27:09 <Diablo-D3> http://hg-git.github.com/
 130 2011-03-04 00:27:12 <Diablo-D3> Im going to be sick
 131 2011-03-04 00:27:23 <Diablo-D3> lfm: ehh that threat wore off
 132 2011-03-04 00:27:32 <Diablo-D3> it ended up being some swiss bank instead
 133 2011-03-04 00:27:40 genjix has joined
 134 2011-03-04 00:27:40 genjix has quit (Changing host)
 135 2011-03-04 00:27:40 genjix has joined
 136 2011-03-04 00:27:41 <Diablo-D3> almost everyone on earth thought it was going to be boa
 137 2011-03-04 00:28:00 genjix has quit (Client Quit)
 138 2011-03-04 00:28:29 <lfm> oh well maybe some day
 139 2011-03-04 00:29:05 <Diablo-D3> I was dissapointed :<
 140 2011-03-04 00:29:09 genjix has joined
 141 2011-03-04 00:29:28 <Diablo-D3> boa has a special spot on my list of things I hate
 142 2011-03-04 00:30:03 blaasddsdssd has quit (Quit: leaving)
 143 2011-03-04 00:30:31 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 144 2011-03-04 00:31:04 <genjix> i can't believe im actually running out of keys to assign to shortcuts on my keyboard
 145 2011-03-04 00:31:31 Omni is now known as AFK!~hopper@attic.ipv6.omnifarious.org|Omnifarious
 146 2011-03-04 00:37:24 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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 148 2011-03-04 00:39:54 gasteve_ has joined
 149 2011-03-04 00:42:12 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, you check out my loverly codez?
 150 2011-03-04 00:42:18 sigkill_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 159 2011-03-04 00:50:29 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I looked
 160 2011-03-04 00:51:15 <phantomcircuit>   def handle_addr(self,peer,payload):
 161 2011-03-04 00:51:15 <phantomcircuit>     for addr in payload['addrs']:
 162 2011-03-04 00:51:15 <phantomcircuit>       self.start_peer((addr['node_addr']['addr'],addr['node_addr']['port']))
 163 2011-03-04 00:51:23 <phantomcircuit> inb4EXPLOSION
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 169 2011-03-04 01:04:32 witbot has left ("mizerydearia")
 170 2011-03-04 01:04:57 <d-snp> transactions are not part of the input to the hash right?
 171 2011-03-04 01:05:23 <d-snp> so the next block can actually include all transactions up to the moment the block is generated?
 172 2011-03-04 01:05:59 hwolf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 173 2011-03-04 01:07:50 Tril has joined
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 175 2011-03-04 01:11:39 int0x27h has joined
 176 2011-03-04 01:12:06 <luke-jr> d-snp: they are and aren't.
 177 2011-03-04 01:12:19 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 178 2011-03-04 01:12:44 djoot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 179 2011-03-04 01:13:20 gasteve_ has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
 180 2011-03-04 01:15:31 bk128 has joined
 181 2011-03-04 01:15:34 <d-snp> luke-jr: ?
 182 2011-03-04 01:15:56 djoot has joined
 183 2011-03-04 01:16:14 <d-snp> I mean part of the hash of the current block, they are part of the hash for the next one right?
 184 2011-03-04 01:18:31 <luke-jr> the current block's hash is dependent on all the tx included in it
 185 2011-03-04 01:19:11 <luke-jr> I suggest someone who uses GitHub submit a pull request for git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin.git myFreeTx
 186 2011-03-04 01:20:37 davex___ has joined
 187 2011-03-04 01:22:29 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 188 2011-03-04 01:23:49 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: lol thats horrible
 189 2011-03-04 01:24:23 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: put that ugly shit in a list comp
 190 2011-03-04 01:24:26 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, there's a very subtle infinite loop in bitcoin.net.message.reader.buffered_read
 191 2011-03-04 01:24:29 <phantomcircuit> can you find it?
 192 2011-03-04 01:25:00 <jrabbit> uh lemme pull up your shit
 193 2011-03-04 01:25:02 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, well obviously that codes temporary, connecting to any and all peers is generally a bad idea
 194 2011-03-04 01:25:33 davex____ has joined
 195 2011-03-04 01:26:03 <jrabbit> oh.
 196 2011-03-04 01:26:13 <jrabbit> still its ugly as fuck
 197 2011-03-04 01:26:14 <jrabbit> lol
 198 2011-03-04 01:26:22 <jrabbit> bad usage of []'s LO
 199 2011-03-04 01:26:24 <jrabbit> *:P
 200 2011-03-04 01:27:19 davex___ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 201 2011-03-04 01:27:25 <phantomcircuit> there's 0.01 BTC in it for you if you find the infinite loop xD
 202 2011-03-04 01:27:33 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: oh jesus christ did you go insane?
 203 2011-03-04 01:27:45 <phantomcircuit> ?
 204 2011-03-04 01:27:51 * jrabbit needs a sec to see what you did with splices
 205 2011-03-04 01:28:18 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what did jrabbit write?
 206 2011-03-04 01:28:23 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: you're doign weird things with splcies I need to figure out what you're doing now lol
 207 2011-03-04 01:28:27 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, huh?
 208 2011-03-04 01:28:37 <luke-jr> oh, phantomcircuit wrote what?
 209 2011-03-04 01:29:11 <luke-jr> wtf is the topic? :p
 210 2011-03-04 01:29:22 <jrabbit> luke-jr: https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/blob/master/bitcoin/net/message.py#L13
 211 2011-03-04 01:29:34 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, find the infinite loop
 212 2011-03-04 01:29:58 <jrabbit> wair
 213 2011-03-04 01:30:03 <luke-jr> that's easy
 214 2011-03-04 01:30:05 <luke-jr> EOF
 215 2011-03-04 01:30:09 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, xD
 216 2011-03-04 01:30:09 <jrabbit> nvm negative splicing is what I thought you did
 217 2011-03-04 01:30:15 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, shhh
 218 2011-03-04 01:30:15 <luke-jr> recv returns ''
 219 2011-03-04 01:30:21 <jrabbit> lolol
 220 2011-03-04 01:30:21 <phantomcircuit> ah
 221 2011-03-04 01:30:22 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you told me to
 222 2011-03-04 01:30:36 <luke-jr> wait, you really didn't know the answer?
 223 2011-03-04 01:30:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, returning empty data isn't very pythonic
 224 2011-03-04 01:30:52 <phantomcircuit> i figured it out right before i asked
 225 2011-03-04 01:31:03 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the socket module isn't native Python
 226 2011-03-04 01:31:10 <jrabbit> lol
 227 2011-03-04 01:31:10 <phantomcircuit> i figured it would raise an exception or at least return False
 228 2011-03-04 01:31:16 <luke-jr> it's "access to the BSD socket interface"
 229 2011-03-04 01:31:19 <luke-jr> "Low-level"
 230 2011-03-04 01:31:30 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: lol
 231 2011-03-04 01:31:41 <jrabbit> so thats where the voodoo was.
 232 2011-03-04 01:31:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what is this code part of?
 233 2011-03-04 01:31:53 * jrabbit thought you fucked the splices
 234 2011-03-04 01:31:57 <phantomcircuit> also nowhere in the docs does it say anything about returning b'' when the remote end hangs up
 235 2011-03-04 01:32:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that's part of BSD sockets
 236 2011-03-04 01:32:10 <jrabbit> I fucking hate reverse index splicing with a trailing :
 237 2011-03-04 01:32:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what is this code?
 238 2011-03-04 01:32:33 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: ...
 239 2011-03-04 01:32:40 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: you're appending to b''
 240 2011-03-04 01:32:46 <jrabbit> self.buffer = b''
 241 2011-03-04 01:32:51 <jrabbit> self.buffer += self.socket.recv(4096)
 242 2011-03-04 01:32:57 <jrabbit> when there is no data
 243 2011-03-04 01:33:02 <jrabbit> it is b''
 244 2011-03-04 01:33:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, an alternative bitcoin client
 245 2011-03-04 01:33:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: called?
 246 2011-03-04 01:33:13 <jrabbit> because you assigned it previously
 247 2011-03-04 01:33:17 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what kind of "client"?
 248 2011-03-04 01:33:20 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, currently called bitcoin-alt
 249 2011-03-04 01:33:28 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: is it a Peer/Node, a Wallet, a UI?
 250 2011-03-04 01:33:29 <jrabbit> luke-jr: its python
 251 2011-03-04 01:33:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it'll be all of those in due time
 252 2011-03-04 01:33:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ugly.
 253 2011-03-04 01:33:51 <luke-jr> that's what we're trying to move away from
 254 2011-03-04 01:34:00 <jrabbit> lol
 255 2011-03-04 01:34:10 * jrabbit could write a slick gui in pyqt maybe
 256 2011-03-04 01:34:21 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, each piece will be separated and easily pushed to an individual app
 257 2011-03-04 01:34:22 <jrabbit> slick and gui mgiht be pushing my skills so far though XD
 258 2011-03-04 01:34:23 <luke-jr> jrabbit: we already have one
 259 2011-03-04 01:34:28 <luke-jr> well, PySide, not PyQt
 260 2011-03-04 01:34:40 <jrabbit> luke-jr: er yeah that ione I don't use pyqt
 261 2011-03-04 01:34:45 <phantomcircuit> as it stands the p2p protocol is isolated
 262 2011-03-04 01:34:46 <jrabbit> luke-jr: we do?
 263 2011-03-04 01:34:49 <phantomcircuit> and that's all i have so far
 264 2011-03-04 01:34:49 <luke-jr> jrabbit: Spesmilo
 265 2011-03-04 01:34:50 <phantomcircuit> xD
 266 2011-03-04 01:34:59 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ok, I add it under Peer/Node then
 267 2011-03-04 01:35:02 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Infrastructure#Implementations
 268 2011-03-04 01:35:16 <luke-jr> jrabbit: http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo
 269 2011-03-04 01:35:36 <luke-jr> jrabbit: genjix & I are the main devs right now I think
 270 2011-03-04 01:35:41 <jrabbit> ah
 271 2011-03-04 01:35:47 <luke-jr> jrabbit: I mainly did the settings dialog and tonal support
 272 2011-03-04 01:35:51 <jrabbit> why does gitlorious make my eyes burn
 273 2011-03-04 01:35:58 <luke-jr> dunno
 274 2011-03-04 01:36:06 <jrabbit> oh I haven't reisntaleld flux
 275 2011-03-04 01:36:19 Syke_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 276 2011-03-04 01:38:52 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: that whole append nonsense is bad
 277 2011-03-04 01:39:07 <jrabbit> or can be if you're not prepared for a blank container
 278 2011-03-04 01:41:09 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, the append thing is actually very slow
 279 2011-03-04 01:41:31 <jrabbit> use twisted?
 280 2011-03-04 01:41:32 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Infrastructure#Implementations
 281 2011-03-04 01:41:49 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lol right like that's gonna make it faster
 282 2011-03-04 01:41:57 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: it could
 283 2011-03-04 01:42:05 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, pretty unlikely
 284 2011-03-04 01:42:20 * luke-jr is tempted to write a Perl implementation just to beat all the Python ones
 285 2011-03-04 01:42:33 <phantomcircuit> the thing that's most likely to make it faster is a truly threaded python runtime
 286 2011-03-04 01:42:45 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: ASYNCRONOUS WEBSCALE WORDS WORDS WORDS
 287 2011-03-04 01:42:51 farzong has joined
 288 2011-03-04 01:42:53 <farzong> ahoy
 289 2011-03-04 01:42:57 <phantomcircuit> asynchronous is actually slower
 290 2011-03-04 01:43:02 <jrabbit> lol :)
 291 2011-03-04 01:43:04 <farzong> :-P
 292 2011-03-04 01:43:05 <phantomcircuit> why people cant understand this i will never know
 293 2011-03-04 01:43:13 <phantomcircuit> more systems calls != better
 294 2011-03-04 01:43:28 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 295 2011-03-04 01:43:37 <jrabbit> async is pretty good for dealign with humans
 296 2011-03-04 01:45:01 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, async requires that you keep state explicitly
 297 2011-03-04 01:45:08 <phantomcircuit> 99% of the time that guarantees it's slower
 298 2011-03-04 01:45:31 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: it made working with google's translate API so easy and fast
 299 2011-03-04 01:45:41 <jrabbit> that said it worked so well it got blocked by google
 300 2011-03-04 01:45:42 <jrabbit> :D
 301 2011-03-04 01:45:47 <phantomcircuit> rofl
 302 2011-03-04 01:45:53 <jrabbit> https://github.com/jrabbit/trbot
 303 2011-03-04 01:46:00 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/QBitcoin
 304 2011-03-04 01:46:06 <phantomcircuit> does anybody know if that got anywhere?
 305 2011-03-04 01:47:08 <jrabbit> c++.... probably not
 306 2011-03-04 01:47:09 <jrabbit> :P
 307 2011-03-04 01:47:09 <luke-jr> MT`AwAy keeps it under lock
 308 2011-03-04 01:47:15 <luke-jr> jrabbit: not C++
 309 2011-03-04 01:47:32 <jrabbit> it says c++
 310 2011-03-04 01:47:57 <luke-jr> unfortunately, the page is locked so I can't fix it
 311 2011-03-04 01:48:30 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, https://github.com/jrabbit/trbot/blob/master/transtwisted.py#L45
 312 2011-03-04 01:48:31 <phantomcircuit> lol
 313 2011-03-04 01:48:40 <jrabbit> one of them is the old one
 314 2011-03-04 01:48:44 <jrabbit> :D
 315 2011-03-04 01:48:59 <jrabbit> its moire like my fucking 5 irc library I've used
 316 2011-03-04 01:49:08 <jrabbit> goddamn irc and python go together like...
 317 2011-03-04 01:49:33 <jrabbit> your aunt edna and a thermite detonation
 318 2011-03-04 01:50:24 <farzong> need some free bitcoins
 319 2011-03-04 01:50:35 <jrabbit> isnt the faucet running?
 320 2011-03-04 01:50:48 <phantomcircuit> more like the drip
 321 2011-03-04 01:50:50 <phantomcircuit> GETIT
 322 2011-03-04 01:50:52 <farzong> bitcoin is awesome
 323 2011-03-04 01:50:59 <farzong> bitwich
 324 2011-03-04 01:52:13 <farzong> a pint of bit
 325 2011-03-04 01:53:08 Syke has joined
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 332 2011-03-04 02:03:08 Mango-chan has joined
 333 2011-03-04 02:03:40 <farzong> Hey, hey, daloy politsey!
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 342 2011-03-04 02:22:08 mmarker has joined
 343 2011-03-04 02:22:41 <mizerydearia> would anyone like to try a game of uno?  #witcoin-games
 344 2011-03-04 02:23:02 validus has joined
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 349 2011-03-04 02:36:43 bk128-Droid has joined
 350 2011-03-04 02:37:15 sigkill_ has joined
 351 2011-03-04 02:37:32 <bk128-Droid> slush: stupid question.  Does a new round start each time the pool finds a block?
 352 2011-03-04 02:38:15 soultcer has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 353 2011-03-04 02:38:21 soultcer has joined
 354 2011-03-04 02:39:41 <mmarker> Hmm.
 355 2011-03-04 02:39:50 <mmarker> Can't download blocks on my client.
 356 2011-03-04 02:39:52 <mmarker> weird
 357 2011-03-04 02:40:15 <bk128-Droid> How long has it been waiting?
 358 2011-03-04 02:41:26 <farzong> shit my terminal froze up and i had to reboot
 359 2011-03-04 02:41:44 sigkill_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 360 2011-03-04 02:42:15 sigkill_ has joined
 361 2011-03-04 02:44:19 <farzong> guadaffi
 362 2011-03-04 02:52:16 <farzong> cornstone
 363 2011-03-04 03:03:28 <mmarker> hmm. losing connections it seems...grr
 364 2011-03-04 03:03:53 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 365 2011-03-04 03:07:03 <mmarker> What port does bitcoin transport on?
 366 2011-03-04 03:07:14 <Diablo-D3> 8333
 367 2011-03-04 03:08:47 <mmarker> Thanks.
 368 2011-03-04 03:09:00 <mmarker> Opening the port seems to may have helped a little
 369 2011-03-04 03:13:52 AmpEater has joined
 370 2011-03-04 03:17:43 <Diablo-D3> yeah, you have to do it
 371 2011-03-04 03:26:23 <Keefe> i see someone is selling a Radeon 5770 on biddingpond :)
 372 2011-03-04 03:26:48 <Keefe> if it sells for a good price, i'll probably list mine there also
 373 2011-03-04 03:29:14 brunner has joined
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 377 2011-03-04 03:29:49 brunner has joined
 378 2011-03-04 03:42:08 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 379 2011-03-04 03:42:30 <mmarker> ;;gc,blocks
 380 2011-03-04 03:42:31 <gribble> Error: "gc,blocks" is not a valid command.
 381 2011-03-04 03:42:35 <mmarker> ;;bc,blocks
 382 2011-03-04 03:42:37 <gribble> 111650
 383 2011-03-04 03:42:49 <farzong> hellloooo
 384 2011-03-04 03:43:10 <[Tycho]> Hello
 385 2011-03-04 03:46:31 <doublec> Khronos announced the formation of a WebCL working group to allow OpenCL in the browser. Interesting.
 386 2011-03-04 03:50:26 bk128 has joined
 387 2011-03-04 03:57:32 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 388 2011-03-04 04:01:28 <luke-jr> so anyhow
 389 2011-03-04 04:01:49 <luke-jr> I just built what I believe to be the first IPv6-enabled bitcoin wallet…
 390 2011-03-04 04:08:15 theboos has joined
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 393 2011-03-04 04:20:44 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 394 2011-03-04 04:21:53 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 395 2011-03-04 04:23:24 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
 396 2011-03-04 04:33:50 <afed> ;;bc,diff
 397 2011-03-04 04:33:50 <gribble> 55590.23763914
 398 2011-03-04 04:33:54 <afed> ;;bc,stats
 399 2011-03-04 04:33:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111657 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1238 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 14 hours, 15 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 63023.15196337
 400 2011-03-04 04:34:08 <dazoe> why can't i tell who sent me bitcoin?
 401 2011-03-04 04:34:29 <afed> well it's not because you're an idiot, it's because that's how bitcoin is designed
 402 2011-03-04 04:35:00 <dazoe> thanks... jerk
 403 2011-03-04 04:35:24 <afed> you can see the address the bitcoins came from
 404 2011-03-04 04:36:08 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 405 2011-03-04 04:36:11 <afed> what else would you like to know?
 406 2011-03-04 04:36:20 <dazoe> how are you supposed to use this in something like a webshop
 407 2011-03-04 04:37:18 <afed> good question
 408 2011-03-04 04:38:58 <doublec> dazoe: for a webshop you provide a bitcoin address generated specifically for the transaction
 409 2011-03-04 04:39:11 <doublec> dazoe: you detect when the customer has sent coins to this address
 410 2011-03-04 04:39:31 <doublec> dazoe: you can then ship the goods or otherwise process the order when they've sent enough coins to the address to pay for it
 411 2011-03-04 04:39:35 <dazoe> that's what i was thinking, but wasnt sure if there was a better way
 412 2011-03-04 04:40:17 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 413 2011-03-04 04:40:35 <doublec> dazoe: you can do all this easily using the json-rpc that bitcoind provides
 414 2011-03-04 04:40:56 <dazoe> yeah i'm teaching my self the api now
 415 2011-03-04 04:41:11 <doublec> the hardest part is detecting when a payment has been made
 416 2011-03-04 04:41:27 <doublec> you can poll to see if payment has been received
 417 2011-03-04 04:41:49 <doublec> or use a patch to bitcoin that notifies you when payment is received (a bit harder as you have to patch and build bitcoind)
 418 2011-03-04 04:42:06 <farzong> syo'
 419 2011-03-04 04:44:17 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 420 2011-03-04 04:44:25 phantomcircuit has joined
 421 2011-03-04 04:48:57 <luke-jr> sigh
 422 2011-03-04 04:49:09 <luke-jr> yet another basically-unfixable bug in Spesmilo, thanks to JSON-RPC
 423 2011-03-04 04:50:28 <phantomcircuit> god damn it
 424 2011-03-04 04:50:55 <luke-jr> no
 425 2011-03-04 04:51:24 <phantomcircuit> no god damn it my screen keeps flickering
 426 2011-03-04 04:51:46 <phantomcircuit> i think the intel integrated graphics are being overloaded by hw accelerated video decoding
 427 2011-03-04 04:52:11 <luke-jr> old Intel IGP or new Intel IGP?
 428 2011-03-04 04:52:50 <phantomcircuit> new
 429 2011-03-04 04:52:59 <phantomcircuit> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Clarkdale Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 18)
 430 2011-03-04 04:53:08 <luke-jr> that sounds old
 431 2011-03-04 04:53:31 <phantomcircuit> er
 432 2011-03-04 04:53:32 <luke-jr> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
 433 2011-03-04 04:53:35 <luke-jr> that's the new ones
 434 2011-03-04 04:53:44 <phantomcircuit> it's an i3
 435 2011-03-04 04:53:51 <phantomcircuit> so i guess old?
 436 2011-03-04 04:54:01 <luke-jr> 1st Gen i3
 437 2011-03-04 04:54:05 <phantomcircuit> omg if this continues im going to hurl
 438 2011-03-04 04:54:25 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 439 2011-03-04 04:54:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 2nd Gen blew all the older stuff away
 440 2011-03-04 04:55:00 <luke-jr> my Intel is better than my old Radeon :p
 441 2011-03-04 04:56:51 phantomcircuit_ has joined
 442 2011-03-04 04:57:08 <phantomcircuit_> lulz
 443 2011-03-04 04:57:26 <phantomcircuit_> tried to rebuild kernel with changed option
 444 2011-03-04 04:57:30 <phantomcircuit_> make -j
 445 2011-03-04 04:57:34 <phantomcircuit_> INFINITY MEMORIES
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 450 2011-03-04 05:00:42 <bk128> is the price of 6970's going to go down when teh 6990s come out?
 451 2011-03-04 05:00:56 <bk128> the*
 452 2011-03-04 05:03:08 <dazoe> is there a way to make the rpcserver listen only on 127.0.0.1?
 453 2011-03-04 05:03:29 <dazoe> it seems like this would be a must have option
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 457 2011-03-04 05:04:49 <dazoe> oh... it does
 458 2011-03-04 05:04:57 <dazoe> by default..
 459 2011-03-04 05:05:42 <phantomcircuit> well this is lame
 460 2011-03-04 05:06:05 <dazoe> sorry, i'l try harder next time
 461 2011-03-04 05:06:36 <phantomcircuit> wat
 462 2011-03-04 05:07:10 <dazoe> wait, wha? i have no idea what's going on.
 463 2011-03-04 05:07:32 <nanotube> i think he wasn't talking to you dazoe :)
 464 2011-03-04 05:07:47 <dazoe> i know
 465 2011-03-04 05:07:58 <nanotube> ah k
 466 2011-03-04 05:08:11 <dazoe> just tring to be less lame
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 478 2011-03-04 05:51:06 * MT`AwAy pokes Sirius 
 479 2011-03-04 05:51:10 <MT`AwAy> still in plane I guess
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 515 2011-03-04 07:04:24 <mmagic> is there a reason why mtgox.com is still round-robining with the old wrong address? www.mtgox.com.          47955   IN      A       74.52.143.58/www.mtgox.com.          47955   IN      A       174.121.74.59
 516 2011-03-04 07:08:03 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, it's not
 517 2011-03-04 07:08:14 <phantomcircuit> your isp is fucking with you
 518 2011-03-04 07:08:27 <mmagic> that's not my isp, I'm querying theplanet directly
 519 2011-03-04 07:09:19 <mmagic> you can do it to. here's the magic formula: dig @ns1.theplanet.com mtgox.com
 520 2011-03-04 07:10:26 <niekie> niek@oneironaut:~$ dig @ns1.theplanet.com mtgox.com
 521 2011-03-04 07:10:26 <niekie> <crud removed>
 522 2011-03-04 07:10:26 <niekie> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
 523 2011-03-04 07:10:26 <niekie> mtgox.com.		86400	IN	A	174.121.74.59
 524 2011-03-04 07:10:26 <gribble> Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.
 525 2011-03-04 07:10:28 <niekie> ;; Query time: 306 msec
 526 2011-03-04 07:10:28 <gribble> Error: "Query" is not a valid command.
 527 2011-03-04 07:12:17 DrEeevil is now known as bonsaikitten
 528 2011-03-04 07:12:42 <doublec> I get 74.52.143.58 and 174.121.74.59 with dig
 529 2011-03-04 07:12:50 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, mtgox.com.		86400	IN	A	174.121.74.59
 530 2011-03-04 07:12:52 <mmagic> there's either a bind view, a transparent proxy, or a rewriter intercepting queries.
 531 2011-03-04 07:12:57 <phantomcircuit> i only get 172
 532 2011-03-04 07:13:10 <phantomcircuit> 174
 533 2011-03-04 07:13:25 <phantomcircuit> your isp is fucking with you
 534 2011-03-04 07:13:26 <mmagic> theplanet might be caching.
 535 2011-03-04 07:13:43 <phantomcircuit> i dont think so
 536 2011-03-04 07:13:54 <phantomcircuit> i think your isp is transparently modifying dns requests
 537 2011-03-04 07:14:19 <doublec> mine too apparently
 538 2011-03-04 07:14:21 <mmagic> you think wrongly then.
 539 2011-03-04 07:14:31 <validus> it could just be something added on the nameserver
 540 2011-03-04 07:14:33 <validus> its a very simple fix
 541 2011-03-04 07:14:37 <validus> and im sure it will be
 542 2011-03-04 07:14:45 <mmagic> theplanet needs to get their act together.
 543 2011-03-04 07:14:48 <phantomcircuit> then why am i just getting the one A record?
 544 2011-03-04 07:15:01 <mmagic> phantomcircuit: any one of the explanations i just described would do it.
 545 2011-03-04 07:15:03 <validus> it should take the a record and only goto the others when fails
 546 2011-03-04 07:15:10 <validus> but i could be wrong
 547 2011-03-04 07:15:41 <mmagic> if there are two A records in an authority record, most nameservers will round-robin it.
 548 2011-03-04 07:16:07 oneman has joined
 549 2011-03-04 07:16:15 OVerLoRDI has joined
 550 2011-03-04 07:16:19 <validus> it is round robbin'n it, it seems
 551 2011-03-04 07:16:25 <validus> i did nslookup twice and got .58 first then .59 2nd
 552 2011-03-04 07:16:35 u2time has joined
 553 2011-03-04 07:17:23 <niekie> I just fired quite a lot of queries at ns1.theplanet.com, got .59 every time.
 554 2011-03-04 07:17:56 <validus> outa the last 10 times i did nslookup. .58 showed up the 9th time
 555 2011-03-04 07:18:16 <validus> so its probably cycling the 2 on some sort of system. im sure itll get fixed
 556 2011-03-04 07:18:46 <mmagic> shaw (my isp) doesn't intercept nameserver traffic. if they did i would know it by now. besides, I just tried it from bigpipe, shaw, rogers, case western reserve, and finland and the only place i'm getting a real record back is from a peer1 server, and an m5hosting server.
 557 2011-03-04 07:19:06 <validus> i just opened up a prompt and did nslookup
 558 2011-03-04 07:19:07 <validus> :P
 559 2011-03-04 07:19:09 <mmagic> theplanet is fucking with people.
 560 2011-03-04 07:20:10 <mmagic> let's try a texas machine...
 561 2011-03-04 07:20:47 <mmagic> that works too.
 562 2011-03-04 07:20:59 <u2time> it looks more like the person typing settings into ns1 messed up and has two different IP's.  The planet is just giving out both answers to peopel
 563 2011-03-04 07:21:09 <validus> well judging that it only did it once outa 10 times. that coudl just be lucking out on which ip its going to
 564 2011-03-04 07:21:41 <u2time> dig@ or nslookup you see ns1.theplanet is setup wrong
 565 2011-03-04 07:21:46 <mmagic> u2time: it looks like it's a reverse-caching ns, i'm not getting the incorrect @ns1 answer from everywhere.
 566 2011-03-04 07:22:48 <mmagic> looks like University of British Columbia name servers (in Vancouver, Canada) are also returning the wrong answer.
 567 2011-03-04 07:22:57 <u2time> your connecting directly to 207.218.247.135 for the dns right?
 568 2011-03-04 07:23:04 <mmagic> that's what tcpdump says
 569 2011-03-04 07:23:48 <mmagic> looking up *through* UBC machines from texas also gives the wrong answer
 570 2011-03-04 07:23:51 <u2time> oh.. yeah, somebody inbetween me is messing with dns (comcast?)
 571 2011-03-04 07:23:54 <phantomcircuit> oh you're right
 572 2011-03-04 07:23:59 <phantomcircuit> it is round robining
 573 2011-03-04 07:24:08 <phantomcircuit> it's more reliable if you force a tcp connection
 574 2011-03-04 07:24:17 <validus> ya its cycling them
 575 2011-03-04 07:24:25 <u2time> from servers with other isp I get different dns answers
 576 2011-03-04 07:24:38 <validus> do it numerious times and eventually you'll get the other answer
 577 2011-03-04 07:24:46 <validus> well judging by outa 10 i got different once
 578 2011-03-04 07:25:03 <niekie> Ah, yeah, I managed to get the other record once.
 579 2011-03-04 07:25:11 <niekie> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
 580 2011-03-04 07:25:11 <niekie> mtgox.com.		86400	IN	A	74.52.143.58
 581 2011-03-04 07:25:11 <gribble> Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.
 582 2011-03-04 07:25:33 <mmagic> ah..   dig +tcp @ns1.theplanet.com mtgox.com returns wrongly from time to time.
 583 2011-03-04 07:25:48 <mmagic> very interesting.
 584 2011-03-04 07:26:05 * mmagic prods MT`AwAy 
 585 2011-03-04 07:26:06 <validus> his ip could have changed before and they left the old one in there
 586 2011-03-04 07:26:13 <u2time> think I got it, theplanet uses a load balancer. one of their dns servers behind the load balancer is not uptodate
 587 2011-03-04 07:26:23 <mmagic> or it's just a stuck reverse-caching
 588 2011-03-04 07:26:35 <mmagic> u2time: how did you learn that?
 589 2011-03-04 07:26:41 <u2time> I am guessing
 590 2011-03-04 07:26:59 <mmagic> k
 591 2011-03-04 07:27:10 <mmagic> BAH!
 592 2011-03-04 07:27:13 <mmagic> into /etc/hosts it goes..
 593 2011-03-04 07:27:35 <mmagic> axfr should be allowed more. :(
 594 2011-03-04 07:28:44 u2time has left ()
 595 2011-03-04 07:29:30 <dazoe> can i take the database of blocks from one computer and use it on a totaly different computer, ie zip up my database dir and db.* and block.dat files and giving them to a friend so they can start faster with out th init download of all blocks?
 596 2011-03-04 07:30:08 <sipa> yes
 597 2011-03-04 07:30:23 <niekie> Just make sure you don't give them your wallet.dat :)
 598 2011-03-04 07:30:26 <dazoe> do i need the database dir cause all it has in it is a log file
 599 2011-03-04 07:30:34 <sipa> no
 600 2011-03-04 07:30:52 <sipa> just the blocks and the index
 601 2011-03-04 07:31:29 discHead has quit (Quit:)
 602 2011-03-04 07:31:38 <dazoe> so just db.* and blk*.dat or just blk*.dat?
 603 2011-03-04 07:32:02 <sipa> blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat
 604 2011-03-04 07:32:53 <dazoe> wow, compresses better then i thought it would
 605 2011-03-04 07:34:45 <dazoe> 149MB -> 72.8MB
 606 2011-03-04 07:34:57 <dazoe> using 7z ultra mode
 607 2011-03-04 07:37:52 <validus> text compresses well
 608 2011-03-04 07:37:58 <validus> i turned 98 meg txt file into 10 meg with winrar
 609 2011-03-04 07:38:18 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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 611 2011-03-04 07:38:56 <Keefe> isn't there a problem moving the blk*.dat files between different versions of bitcoin?
 612 2011-03-04 07:39:27 <Blitzboom> can someone tell me what’s stored in blkindex?
 613 2011-03-04 07:39:41 <Keefe> i suppose that would only be if the db version changed. anyone know which bitcoin versions changed the db?
 614 2011-03-04 07:39:42 <Blitzboom> and addr.dat
 615 2011-03-04 07:40:02 <Keefe> i don't know Blitzboom
 616 2011-03-04 07:40:29 <Blitzboom> maybe the transactions are in addr.dat
 617 2011-03-04 07:40:52 <sipa> blk0001 and blkindex are just the block chain
 618 2011-03-04 07:40:53 <dazoe> i think addr.dat only holds peers the client has connected to
 619 2011-03-04 07:41:19 <sipa> transactions to/from yourself are in wallet.dat i believe
 620 2011-03-04 07:41:20 <Blitzboom> ok, but why two files?
 621 2011-03-04 07:41:34 <sipa> one is a concatenation of the the blocks in the block chain
 622 2011-03-04 07:41:39 <sipa> the other is an index for it
 623 2011-03-04 07:41:48 <Blitzboom> ok
 624 2011-03-04 07:42:21 <sipa> blk00001.dat is not a db file
 625 2011-03-04 07:42:38 ousado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 626 2011-03-04 07:42:38 <Blitzboom> i think it should be a bit more transparent to the user
 627 2011-03-04 07:42:44 <sipa> yes
 628 2011-03-04 07:43:01 <Blitzboom> e.g. if i want to have a look at all my private keys
 629 2011-03-04 07:43:13 <jgarzik> addr.dat holds network addresses, for finding peers in the P2P network
 630 2011-03-04 07:43:30 <sipa> i wrote a patch that can show your private keys
 631 2011-03-04 07:43:45 <Blitzboom> cool, link?
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 633 2011-03-04 07:44:42 <mmagic> someone should make sell orders that spell out words in the depth-of-market @ mtgox. i would but i don't have enough bitcoins.
 634 2011-03-04 07:45:02 <mmagic> "hey"
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 637 2011-03-04 07:45:46 <sipa> but actually, i think wallet.dat should be split into 1) a directory of human-readable files with the private keys themselves in 2) a db file with transactions from/to any local wallet (the thing that's currently generated through a -rescan)
 638 2011-03-04 07:45:52 <dazoe> https://mtgox.com/ forbidden?
 639 2011-03-04 07:46:12 skeledrew has quit (Client Quit)
 640 2011-03-04 07:46:32 <Blitzboom> so that you’re able to delete/add private keys, sipa?
 641 2011-03-04 07:46:45 skeledrew has joined
 642 2011-03-04 07:47:04 <Aciid> mtgox has gone underground with the money
 643 2011-03-04 07:47:08 <Aciid> rah rah rah
 644 2011-03-04 07:47:14 <dazoe> sipa: it'd be nice to be able to remove addresses the have 0 balance also.
 645 2011-03-04 07:47:20 <sipa> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3906.0
 646 2011-03-04 07:47:22 <bitbot> [PATCH] dumpprivkey and importprivkey RPC commands
 647 2011-03-04 07:47:41 <sipa> dazoe: that is dangerous, unless you are sure you've never given out that address to anyone
 648 2011-03-04 07:47:59 <dazoe> ah, good point
 649 2011-03-04 07:48:10 <sipa> so indeed the file mark each key as "revealed" or "unrevealed"
 650 2011-03-04 07:48:30 <Blitzboom> i see
 651 2011-03-04 07:48:43 <Blitzboom> yeah, i guess you should collect all keys you’ve used
 652 2011-03-04 07:48:44 <sipa> oh, and each "wallet file" should correspond to a single account
 653 2011-03-04 07:49:00 <sipa> so you can just move those around between systems without harm
 654 2011-03-04 07:49:38 ousado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 655 2011-03-04 07:49:47 <mmagic> hrm.. i'm not so sure that's a good idea.
 656 2011-03-04 07:50:51 <dazoe> my bitcoin server isn't connecting to the network. :(
 657 2011-03-04 07:50:56 <sipa> mmagic: why not?
 658 2011-03-04 07:51:06 <dazoe> not sure yet
 659 2011-03-04 07:51:45 <Aciid> how do I calculate Mhash/W
 660 2011-03-04 07:51:47 <Aciid> for the wiki
 661 2011-03-04 07:52:18 <sipa> Mhash/s/W, i suppose?
 662 2011-03-04 07:52:23 molecular has joined
 663 2011-03-04 07:52:34 <mmagic> moving database files around while the application is still running is tough. you'd need the cooperation of the application to gracefully extract/partition/whatever the data.
 664 2011-03-04 07:53:01 <dazoe> whoo! finaly got a connection...
 665 2011-03-04 07:53:25 <sipa> mmagic: of course, i don't mean you should be able to do this while the program is running
 666 2011-03-04 07:53:52 <sipa> but now it's all a black box
 667 2011-03-04 07:55:16 <mmagic> sipa: i think application-assisted wallet manipulation is 100% an excellent idea.
 668 2011-03-04 07:55:36 <Aciid> https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Mining_hardware_comparison&diff=4864&oldid=4863
 669 2011-03-04 07:55:40 <Aciid> correct?
 670 2011-03-04 07:58:24 <sipa> looks right to me
 671 2011-03-04 07:58:34 <Aciid> great =)
 672 2011-03-04 07:58:46 <sipa> except the table header, that would need to be Mhash/J or Mhash/s/W :)
 673 2011-03-04 07:59:01 <sipa> </nitpick>
 674 2011-03-04 07:59:15 <Aciid> CPU mining is expensive :\
 675 2011-03-04 08:00:19 <validus> im not using -w 32 on my 4550
 676 2011-03-04 08:00:20 <validus> should i be?
 677 2011-03-04 08:00:34 <sipa> validus: you should at least try
 678 2011-03-04 08:00:58 <validus> i udpated a driver for ati in windows update (dont ask me why) and i lost about 500 khash
 679 2011-03-04 08:01:12 <sipa> mmagic: currently i think all used keypairs are loaded into memory anyway - unless that's changed there's no problem with having those keys stored in human readable files and just load them all once on startup, right?
 680 2011-03-04 08:01:21 <validus> i wonder if it updated the sdk
 681 2011-03-04 08:02:13 <sipa> mmagic: and have a rescan rpc call that rescans the wallet directory for new/deleted keys/accounts
 682 2011-03-04 08:02:24 <validus> would -w 32 affect speed at all?
 683 2011-03-04 08:02:28 <validus> im seeing it pretty constant
 684 2011-03-04 08:02:30 <sipa> it may
 685 2011-03-04 08:02:37 <validus> still the same 7.1
 686 2011-03-04 08:02:39 <sipa> it depends on a lot of factors
 687 2011-03-04 08:02:47 <validus> but im using the poclbm gui
 688 2011-03-04 08:02:56 <dazoe> how many connections to peers should i be getting?
 689 2011-03-04 08:03:02 <sipa> 8
 690 2011-03-04 08:03:06 <validus> i need to find out if it updated the sdk thats the only reason i know that it would drop 500 khash/s
 691 2011-03-04 08:03:18 <sipa> i won't
 692 2011-03-04 08:03:27 <sipa> but the driver is also important
 693 2011-03-04 08:03:38 <sipa> the driver itself is what does the communication with your card
 694 2011-03-04 08:03:43 <validus> ya i know
 695 2011-03-04 08:03:48 <mmagic> sipa: i think it's just a question of on-disk transaction commit..?
 696 2011-03-04 08:03:52 <validus> i was gettin 7500 7600. now im gettin 7100
 697 2011-03-04 08:03:58 <validus> after an update on it
 698 2011-03-04 08:04:10 <dazoe> really!? 8  my desktop gets 10-30
 699 2011-03-04 08:04:33 <sipa> dazoe: if you have an open port 8333 that's normal
 700 2011-03-04 08:04:44 <sipa> 8 is just the number of outgoing connections the client tries to make
 701 2011-03-04 08:04:54 <sipa> but you may get incoming ones as well
 702 2011-03-04 08:05:07 <dazoe> ah, any was to change that?
 703 2011-03-04 08:05:13 <dazoe> besides patching
 704 2011-03-04 08:05:17 <sipa> mmagic: yeah, of course, sometimes new keys are generated and need to be added to the wallet files
 705 2011-03-04 08:05:48 <sipa> and if that's not done in a nice transactional way, you may end up having partial copies of the file
 706 2011-03-04 08:06:26 <doublec> dazoe: there's a -nolisten argument if you don't want that
 707 2011-03-04 08:08:02 <dazoe> doublec: i want more connections...
 708 2011-03-04 08:08:09 <dazoe> not less.
 709 2011-03-04 08:08:24 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 400000
 710 2011-03-04 08:08:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 6 days, 21 hours, 48 minutes, and 15 seconds
 711 2011-03-04 08:08:38 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 712 2011-03-04 08:08:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111694 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1201 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 6 hours, 8 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 64024.65281297
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 714 2011-03-04 08:12:11 <dazoe> does the debug.log get truncated automatically?
 715 2011-03-04 08:14:06 <mmagic> when you restart the daemon it can be truncated.
 716 2011-03-04 08:14:18 <mmagic> otherwise, on my machines, it grows indefinitely.
 717 2011-03-04 08:15:32 <dazoe> hmm, seems like just a rapidly growing log file there'd be a soft reload so you could use something like logrotate without having to rebootstrap the connection
 718 2011-03-04 08:15:58 <dazoe> seems like *with* a....
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 722 2011-03-04 08:34:46 <dazoe> my hosting company was bought out last month, so i assume they are working on moving everything, and it's a pain in the *** tring to work on a server that is constantly dropping
 723 2011-03-04 08:37:06 <dazoe> screen -r
 724 2011-03-04 08:37:11 <dazoe> oops....
 725 2011-03-04 08:53:11 <Aciid> [Tycho]: are deepbit's payouts cron'd?
 726 2011-03-04 08:53:14 <Syke> byobu > screen
 727 2011-03-04 08:53:28 <dazoe> Aciid: sure doesn't seem like it
 728 2011-03-04 08:53:52 <Aciid> I'm 0.1138513 over my payout auto-pay...
 729 2011-03-04 08:54:01 <dazoe> also is the stats page not updating?
 730 2011-03-04 08:54:24 <Aciid> have to think where im mining after my 6870's are hooked
 731 2011-03-04 08:54:28 <Aciid> right now it doesn't quite matter
 732 2011-03-04 08:54:45 <Aciid> since i'm doing aprox 30MH
 733 2011-03-04 08:55:33 <dazoe> wow, i'm just running with 4way and cuda on an old card... getting 10/7
 734 2011-03-04 08:55:51 <dazoe> MH is the hashes per hour?
 735 2011-03-04 08:56:16 <Blitzboom> megahash/s
 736 2011-03-04 08:56:54 <dazoe> k, that's what i thought it was.. but noticed the s was missing
 737 2011-03-04 08:58:14 <validus> if just doing pooled mining. i dont need to do bitcoin -server do i
 738 2011-03-04 08:58:51 <sipa> you don't need bitcoin(d) at all
 739 2011-03-04 08:59:00 <dazoe> validus:no the pool you are connecting to is the server... unless you have a rpc client using your bitcoin
 740 2011-03-04 08:59:03 <validus> well to recieve bitcoins i would
 741 2011-03-04 08:59:17 <validus> i just run a gpu miner to a pool
 742 2011-03-04 08:59:18 <sipa> not necessarily, you could use a mybitcoin address
 743 2011-03-04 08:59:35 <validus> my actual bitcoin client does nothing cept recieve and send
 744 2011-03-04 08:59:40 <sipa> but if you like to keep control of your own funds, yes
 745 2011-03-04 09:00:44 <validus> thats what i was t hinking and was going wait. why do i have -server on for
 746 2011-03-04 09:00:48 <validus> just double checking really
 747 2011-03-04 09:01:06 <validus> the update took off my oc' values, thats why the drop in speed
 748 2011-03-04 09:01:11 <validus> back to 7.6 mhash
 749 2011-03-04 09:01:15 <validus> not alot but what do ya do
 750 2011-03-04 09:02:34 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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 752 2011-03-04 09:03:55 <xelister> where is now the MegaChart?
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 768 2011-03-04 10:10:22 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
 769 2011-03-04 10:11:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111716 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1179 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 1 hour, 19 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 64630.66768994
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 772 2011-03-04 10:17:53 <xelister> where is now the MegaChart????
 773 2011-03-04 10:17:54 <xelister> O_o
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 786 2011-03-04 11:32:01 <quadcores> ;;bc,stats
 787 2011-03-04 11:32:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111729 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1166 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 23 hours, 7 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 64871.79047216
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 803 2011-03-04 12:48:05 <magnetron> what's the difference between -server and -daemon ?
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 806 2011-03-04 12:54:03 <molecular> H+=0x5be0cd19U; <- is that part of sha256?
 807 2011-03-04 12:56:43 TD has joined
 808 2011-03-04 12:56:55 <sipa> yes
 809 2011-03-04 12:57:22 <sipa> after each sha block, the resulting state variables are added with their values before the block transformation was applied
 810 2011-03-04 12:58:55 <molecular> /G+=0x1f83d9abU; <- and why is this commented out (in m0mchill's kernel)
 811 2011-03-04 12:59:36 <sipa> because the resulting value of G is not interesting
 812 2011-03-04 12:59:49 <sipa> same reason the last 2 or 3 sha rounds are commented out as well
 813 2011-03-04 12:59:56 <molecular> but it's comared to targetG: "if (belowOrEquals(H, targetH, G, targetG))" in the next line
 814 2011-03-04 13:00:05 <molecular> that I understand
 815 2011-03-04 13:00:10 <molecular> but G is used in comparison
 816 2011-03-04 13:00:34 <sipa> maybe it's a bug - but the value of G is only interesting when difficulty < 1
 817 2011-03-04 13:00:43 <sipa> so it doesn't matter really
 818 2011-03-04 13:01:23 <molecular> so it would really be sufficient here to check H==0?
 819 2011-03-04 13:01:31 <sipa> yes
 820 2011-03-04 13:01:44 <sipa> but m0mchil did tests, and apparently that wasn't faster
 821 2011-03-04 13:02:00 <molecular> yeah, I tested that, too. didn't change anything
 822 2011-03-04 13:02:18 <molecular> G is the 2nd-lowest 32-bit value in the hash, right?
 823 2011-03-04 13:02:25 <sipa> yes
 824 2011-03-04 13:02:36 <molecular> so the one that currently has to be <0x00012dcd
 825 2011-03-04 13:03:01 <sipa> yes
 826 2011-03-04 13:03:26 <molecular> and that 0x00012dcd should be m0mchill's "targetG", right?
 827 2011-03-04 13:03:43 <sipa> yes
 828 2011-03-04 13:03:53 <molecular> so how can adding or not adding 0x1f83d9abU go G and then comparing to targetG not make a difference?
 829 2011-03-04 13:04:00 <molecular> *to
 830 2011-03-04 13:05:03 <sipa> i don't have the code in front of me, but could it be that if H==0, it already succeeds?
 831 2011-03-04 13:05:10 <molecular> no
 832 2011-03-04 13:05:54 <molecular> http://pastebin.com/qF9DqDGy
 833 2011-03-04 13:06:02 <molecular> for a quick loock at BitcoinMiner.cl
 834 2011-03-04 13:07:31 <sipa> hmm
 835 2011-03-04 13:07:32 <sipa> weird
 836 2011-03-04 13:07:39 <molecular> ;;seen m0mchill
 837 2011-03-04 13:07:40 <gribble> I have not seen m0mchill.
 838 2011-03-04 13:07:48 <sipa> i don't realy get it
 839 2011-03-04 13:08:00 <molecular> me neither, does m0mchill not hang out here?
 840 2011-03-04 13:08:19 <sipa> it clearly 1) comments out the 3rd last sha round (which is the last one to influence G) 2) comments out the adding of the previous state for G
 841 2011-03-04 13:08:30 <sipa> but still uses G
 842 2011-03-04 13:08:43 <molecular> exactly, that's what I dont get
 843 2011-03-04 13:11:01 <molecular> the comparison of G is technically good (if correct), because it avoids overwriting a good solution with one that only has H==0, but G too big. But that's really unlikely to happen because of the hashmap-style output
 844 2011-03-04 13:11:42 <sipa> in BitcoinMiner.py:
 845 2011-03-04 13:11:44 <sipa> (target[0], target[1]) = (uint32(0xFFFF0000), 0)
 846 2011-03-04 13:12:05 <sipa> so targetH is always 0, and targetG is always 0xFFFF0000
 847 2011-03-04 13:12:26 <molecular> uhm, why?
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 849 2011-03-04 13:14:01 <sipa> i think this is a bug :)
 850 2011-03-04 13:14:18 <sipa> or a workaround for the fast that artforz' miner doesn't compute G correctly
 851 2011-03-04 13:14:21 <sipa> *fact
 852 2011-03-04 13:14:52 <sipa> but it still throws away 1 in 65535 good shares/blocks, if i understand it correctly
 853 2011-03-04 13:15:05 <mmarker> sipa: which miner?
 854 2011-03-04 13:15:22 <sipa> poclbm
 855 2011-03-04 13:15:33 <mmarker> Ahh
 856 2011-03-04 13:15:35 <sipa> s/artforz' miner/artforz' kernel/
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 858 2011-03-04 13:20:52 <mmarker> Gotcha
 859 2011-03-04 13:21:19 <mmarker> Noeed to look into this AMD vs Intel issue with the code I ported.
 860 2011-03-04 13:24:28 <eps> anyone here used puddingpops cuda miner?, i get a cuda error when linking
 861 2011-03-04 13:25:36 <eps> checked on the forums, there was one guy who got the same error but didn't say if he managed to fix it or not
 862 2011-03-04 13:26:47 <eps> undefined reference to `cuInit'
 863 2011-03-04 13:27:11 <eps> made all the more difficult by the fact that puddingpop used cmake which i am not familliar with
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 865 2011-03-04 13:32:25 <molecular> sipa, he could've just commented-in the G-relevant calculations... but maybe he wanted the speed
 866 2011-03-04 13:32:48 <molecular> actually, I still think ingnoring G in the comparison doesn't do significant harm
 867 2011-03-04 13:35:11 <sipa> there is a chance now that the "wrong" G is > 0xFFFF0000
 868 2011-03-04 13:35:32 <sipa> in which case it is ignored, even if the right one would be < 0xFFFF0000
 869 2011-03-04 13:35:42 <magnetron> imposing an error that only occurs in every 2^(-16) hash might be preferrable if it speeds up the average speed
 870 2011-03-04 13:36:46 <sipa> it doesn't
 871 2011-03-04 13:36:51 <bd_> magnetron: To be precise, if the speedup is at least 1/(2^-16) * (length of normal hashing operation), then it's worth it.
 872 2011-03-04 13:37:06 <sipa> there is no speedup at all by doing it this way
 873 2011-03-04 13:37:11 <sipa> he just has to ignore G
 874 2011-03-04 13:37:24 <sipa> instead of not calculating it but still comparing it
 875 2011-03-04 13:37:26 <molecular> I agree
 876 2011-03-04 13:37:55 <molecular> I did that here... of course I wont be able to measure any improvement
 877 2011-03-04 13:38:36 Zarutian has joined
 878 2011-03-04 13:38:40 <molecular> with git, if I made some local changes I want to keep... can I still pull in a commit or at least get a diff to newest version somehow?
 879 2011-03-04 13:39:00 <molecular> "git diff" gives me only local changes up to the last time I did "git pull", right?
 880 2011-03-04 13:39:01 <magnetron> molecular: i think you can use "rebase" for this
 881 2011-03-04 13:39:03 <mmarker> Are you pulling from a remote tree?
 882 2011-03-04 13:39:12 <molecular> yeah, from github
 883 2011-03-04 13:39:20 <mmarker> molecualr: did you fork the tree?
 884 2011-03-04 13:39:27 <molecular> no
 885 2011-03-04 13:39:36 <molecular> I simply made local changes
 886 2011-03-04 13:40:01 <mmarker> Ahh, ok. What you tend to do is if you're going to make changes, you fork and then work on brnaches with your fork
 887 2011-03-04 13:40:09 <molecular> ah
 888 2011-03-04 13:40:27 <molecular> how do I commit to my local branch?
 889 2011-03-04 13:40:42 <mmarker> well, first off, never work on master
 890 2011-03-04 13:40:44 <mmarker> :D
 891 2011-03-04 13:40:58 <mmarker> but if you're on a branch, to commit your local changes, it's git add/git commit
 892 2011-03-04 13:41:03 <magnetron> git add <files>, git comitt
 893 2011-03-04 13:41:18 <magnetron> +spelling
 894 2011-03-04 13:41:36 <molecular> maybe firstly: how do I fork?
 895 2011-03-04 13:41:44 <magnetron> branch
 896 2011-03-04 13:41:54 <mmarker> Simple. git clone url://for.repo
 897 2011-03-04 13:42:09 <mmarker> which you have done!
 898 2011-03-04 13:42:22 <molecular> ah
 899 2011-03-04 13:42:33 <molecular> so I can not "git commit" my changes
 900 2011-03-04 13:42:37 <molecular> now
 901 2011-03-04 13:42:43 <mmarker> no, you can commit them
 902 2011-03-04 13:42:47 <mmarker> commits are local
 903 2011-03-04 13:42:51 <mmarker> you can't push them
 904 2011-03-04 13:42:54 <molecular> yeah, "I can now "git commit"
 905 2011-03-04 13:43:33 <mmarker> git's a little harder to learn if you're used to something like subversion, where there is a strong client/server model
 906 2011-03-04 13:43:52 <magnetron> molecular: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-rebase.html
 907 2011-03-04 13:43:52 <mmarker> since every git clone of a repo is also able to be cloned from as well
 908 2011-03-04 13:44:07 <mmarker> An example may be good here:
 909 2011-03-04 13:44:09 <molecular> do I have to use "git add" even on non-new files?
 910 2011-03-04 13:44:15 <mmarker> molecular: yes
 911 2011-03-04 13:44:34 <mmarker> git add is more "add changes to files" than "add new files"
 912 2011-03-04 13:44:56 <mmarker> if you look at my repo: http://github.com/chromicant/cpuminer.git
 913 2011-03-04 13:45:04 <mmarker> you'll see I have my sse2 branch.
 914 2011-03-04 13:45:29 <mmarker> I finished my work, and I'm on the branch. jgarzik updated his miner, and I wanted to merge in my changes.
 915 2011-03-04 13:45:38 <mmarker> First, I set up a remote to his repository:
 916 2011-03-04 13:46:06 <mmarker> git remote add upstream http://github.com/jgarzik/cpuminer.git
 917 2011-03-04 13:46:17 <mmarker> Now I have a branch named "upstream"
 918 2011-03-04 13:46:48 <molecular> aha
 919 2011-03-04 13:47:10 <mmarker> (you dont have to do that, since you forked directly from someone's repo. That above trick is good on a clone of a fork)
 920 2011-03-04 13:47:25 <molecular> so after "git commit", which I did, I do "git remote add upstream https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm.git"
 921 2011-03-04 13:47:33 <mmarker> In your case, a "git fetch master" on your branch would be good.
 922 2011-03-04 13:47:50 <molecular> "fatal: 'master' does not appear to be a git repository"
 923 2011-03-04 13:47:58 <mmarker> Yea, my bad
 924 2011-03-04 13:48:03 <mmarker> run a git rebase master
 925 2011-03-04 13:48:47 <mmarker> things should hum and click
 926 2011-03-04 13:48:54 <molecular> "Current branch master is up to date."
 927 2011-03-04 13:48:54 <mmarker> and hopefully you wont get any conflicts
 928 2011-03-04 13:49:03 <mmarker> try a git pull master
 929 2011-03-04 13:49:08 <mmarker> then rerun the rebase
 930 2011-03-04 13:49:15 <molecular> "fatal: 'master' does not appear to be a git repository"
 931 2011-03-04 13:49:19 <molecular> (on "git pull master"
 932 2011-03-04 13:49:26 <mmarker> ugh, I always get this wrong
 933 2011-03-04 13:50:02 <molecular> I'm confused now
 934 2011-03-04 13:50:17 <mmarker> molecular: on Linux?
 935 2011-03-04 13:50:20 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 936 2011-03-04 13:50:21 <molecular> yes
 937 2011-03-04 13:50:28 <mmarker> Good, gitk is your friend :D
 938 2011-03-04 13:50:37 <mmarker> But, again, sorry for the confusion.
 939 2011-03-04 13:50:50 <molecular> no harm done
 940 2011-03-04 13:50:55 <molecular> thanks for the help
 941 2011-03-04 13:51:25 <mmarker> What I would do:
 942 2011-03-04 13:51:29 <mmarker> git checkout master
 943 2011-03-04 13:51:32 <mmarker> git pull
 944 2011-03-04 13:51:34 <molecular> urgh, damnit, gentoo: "The git ebuild does not install the gitk tool that gets shipped with git. But
 945 2011-03-04 13:51:34 <molecular> strange enough it does install the man page."
 946 2011-03-04 13:51:46 <mmarker> git checkout branch-you-were-working-on
 947 2011-03-04 13:51:50 <mmarker> git merge master
 948 2011-03-04 13:52:07 Spenvo has joined
 949 2011-03-04 13:53:46 <mmarker> actually, jgarzik wrote a great guide on this.
 950 2011-03-04 13:54:24 <mmarker> linux.yyz.us/git-howto.html
 951 2011-03-04 13:56:54 <mmarker> git still befuddles me from time to time
 952 2011-03-04 13:57:15 <mmarker> but, god, the hacks you can do with it. I need to get the Sparkleshare thingy set up to use a private git repo
 953 2011-03-04 13:58:08 <molecular> I'll have to read up on git. that svn-thinking-style is clearly not getting me anywhere ;)
 954 2011-03-04 13:58:52 <molecular> also should have gitk soon, thanks for your help mmarker
 955 2011-03-04 13:59:14 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 956 2011-03-04 14:00:40 <mmarker> Yea, there's a GREAT doc out there on "used to SVN, here's how git works"
 957 2011-03-04 14:01:01 <mmarker> the big one is that branches are DIRT CHEAP with git
 958 2011-03-04 14:01:01 <sipa> ooh that's what i would need
 959 2011-03-04 14:01:06 <mmarker> and tags are mostly useless
 960 2011-03-04 14:01:37 <magnetron> tags are great for release versions
 961 2011-03-04 14:01:46 * sipa never managed to start using a drcs
 962 2011-03-04 14:01:48 <magnetron> like "0.7alpha"
 963 2011-03-04 14:02:07 Lis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 964 2011-03-04 14:02:30 <mmarker> magnetron: also using it for "this point on the branch works"
 965 2011-03-04 14:02:38 <mmarker> so when I break everything, I can get there
 966 2011-03-04 14:02:46 <mmarker> but again, I should really branch from that point :D
 967 2011-03-04 14:02:59 <magnetron> mmarker: or a branch of "only working commits on this one"
 968 2011-03-04 14:03:09 * mmarker thinks he may be able to get more speed from his SSE2 miner...
 969 2011-03-04 14:03:14 <magnetron> mmarker: or a branch of "to be tested"
 970 2011-03-04 14:03:19 <mmarker> well, finish porting it
 971 2011-03-04 14:03:32 <mmarker> magnetron: Yea, I also need to improve my git commit behavior
 972 2011-03-04 14:03:54 <mmarker> I commit every little step as I'm working on things, since I'm a moron....then I need to go back and rebase the whole thing.
 973 2011-03-04 14:05:10 <molecular> yeah, I do that, too
 974 2011-03-04 14:05:28 <molecular> Is that not good with git?
 975 2011-03-04 14:05:48 <magnetron> well
 976 2011-03-04 14:06:07 <magnetron> you often want a branch that make all commits seem huge and ingenious
 977 2011-03-04 14:06:35 <magnetron> "if i just could go back in time and make it right from the start"
 978 2011-03-04 14:06:44 <magnetron> well, with git, you can
 979 2011-03-04 14:07:01 <magnetron> at least the stuff you haven't shared with anyone
 980 2011-03-04 14:07:18 <mmarker> Yea, where I'm having fun is I want to give jgarzik a pull request, and I need to merge the million little commits
 981 2011-03-04 14:07:43 <mmarker> so, going to clone, cherry-pick the diff
 982 2011-03-04 14:07:50 <mmarker> clean it up
 983 2011-03-04 14:07:52 <mmarker> volia
 984 2011-03-04 14:08:24 <bxc_> stgit is a nice tool to use for that
 985 2011-03-04 14:08:27 * bxc_ uses it lots
 986 2011-03-04 14:08:31 <molecular> how can you even see the history?
 987 2011-03-04 14:08:36 <mmarker> git log
 988 2011-03-04 14:08:41 <mmarker> But, gitk
 989 2011-03-04 14:08:55 <mmarker> that REALLY shows you the history, since it shows all the branches
 990 2011-03-04 14:09:59 <molecular> is there some graphical viewer or something like on github?
 991 2011-03-04 14:10:42 loops has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 992 2011-03-04 14:10:57 <molecular> am still waiting for gentoo to emerge gitk... urgh, it's compiling gcc-4.4.4 so it'll take a while ;(
 993 2011-03-04 14:11:30 <magnetron> molecular: i hope you can distcc that
 994 2011-03-04 14:11:38 <mmarker> Wow
 995 2011-03-04 14:11:46 <mmarker> it may be easier just to install tcl/tk
 996 2011-03-04 14:11:49 <mmarker> and download the script
 997 2011-03-04 14:11:58 <mmarker> Sheesh, that's a pretty hefty dependency
 998 2011-03-04 14:12:09 <mmarker> since all gitk is is a tcl script!
 999 2011-03-04 14:12:20 <mmarker> or was
1000 2011-03-04 14:12:42 <magnetron> did you watch torvalds' git talk on google video
1001 2011-03-04 14:13:03 <magnetron> he's like a walking flame war
1002 2011-03-04 14:13:20 spenvo has joined
1003 2011-03-04 14:14:09 slush has joined
1004 2011-03-04 14:14:18 <magnetron> "SVN sucks LOLOLOL"
1005 2011-03-04 14:14:54 <slush> sipa: those jumps on ghash/s graph looks really strange
1006 2011-03-04 14:15:57 <slush> sipa: 100ghash drop few days ago and now the speed is back
1007 2011-03-04 14:16:08 gavinandresen has joined
1008 2011-03-04 14:16:24 <molecular> maybe ArtForz had to do some work on his ASICs ;)
1009 2011-03-04 14:16:41 <slush> sipa: you calculate hashrate from found blocks, right?
1010 2011-03-04 14:16:46 <sipa> slush: yes
1011 2011-03-04 14:17:02 <sipa> all Art's ASICs + GPUs together are not half of the drop we saw a few days ago
1012 2011-03-04 14:17:21 <molecular> yeah, I was joking
1013 2011-03-04 14:17:30 <spenvo> sup bc-ers, i've put together a bitcoin services site for trading. It's only a day old. if you have a min let me know how it sucks. :/   www.bitcoinbulletin.com
1014 2011-03-04 14:18:16 TD_ has joined
1015 2011-03-04 14:18:32 <molecular> actually 96*200+32*700 is almost half of 100G#/s
1016 2011-03-04 14:18:46 <molecular> 41G#/s
1017 2011-03-04 14:19:07 <mmarker> Where are these graphs?
1018 2011-03-04 14:19:13 <molecular> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png
1019 2011-03-04 14:19:19 <sipa> or just http://bitcoin.sipa.be
1020 2011-03-04 14:19:22 <molecular> and http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png
1021 2011-03-04 14:19:37 <molecular> ah, sipa, thx, that's cooler ;)
1022 2011-03-04 14:20:22 mmarker has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
1023 2011-03-04 14:21:51 <molecular> why is the growth still positive when computation speed decreases?
1024 2011-03-04 14:22:02 <sipa> it's always over a larger window
1025 2011-03-04 14:22:12 <molecular> ah, I see
1026 2011-03-04 14:22:12 <sipa> and on average during that window, there was still growth
1027 2011-03-04 14:22:24 <sipa> so the graph you see for growth is *not* the derivative of the speed
1028 2011-03-04 14:22:38 Kiba has joined
1029 2011-03-04 14:22:50 <sipa> i bit counterintuitive, i know, but a real derivative is very shaky
1030 2011-03-04 14:23:30 <molecular> these graphs are very pretty... gnuplot?
1031 2011-03-04 14:23:39 <sipa> yes
1032 2011-03-04 14:24:53 <sipa> and to come back to your initial remark slush: yes, it's quite strange - i should add some raw measurements as well to visually verify things
1033 2011-03-04 14:25:56 <slush> spenvo: I like the idea of phone/skype calls with well known/important bitcoiners. It may give the feeling that Bitcoin is not just anonymous site where some crazy geeks build supercomputer :)
1034 2011-03-04 14:27:02 <spenvo> slush:  :D  Thanks slush!  I'll pursue the idea!  The site is such a new idea, I don't know what to go after
1035 2011-03-04 14:27:32 <spenvo> The focus will be reviews tho, as soon as i get the last bit of backend stuff up
1036 2011-03-04 14:27:34 <slush> spenvo: When I come to the Bitcoin, the only resource which I find was lame video with computer voice. That was pretty strange :)
1037 2011-03-04 14:28:08 larsig has joined
1038 2011-03-04 14:28:10 <slush> People will like Bitcoin when they see there are normal people from bones, who use it :)
1039 2011-03-04 14:28:11 <validus> its more fun to add random voices like that to ppls startup folder
1040 2011-03-04 14:28:47 <spenvo> slush:  lol. It's interesting b/c one of bitcoin's advantages is its anonymity, but that doesn't necessarily help the trading community
1041 2011-03-04 14:28:59 <slush> spenvo: it is common mistake
1042 2011-03-04 14:29:08 <slush> spenvo: Bitcoiners CAN be anonymous
1043 2011-03-04 14:29:18 <slush> but there is no reason that they have to be anonymous
1044 2011-03-04 14:29:39 <slush> Personally I don't care about anonymity and for example, Gavin don't care, too :)
1045 2011-03-04 14:30:06 <spenvo> haha, i hear ya.  Neither do I.  Want my ssn?
1046 2011-03-04 14:30:24 <slush> :)
1047 2011-03-04 14:30:25 <validus> i bet if you have facebook it woudlnt be that hard to get :P
1048 2011-03-04 14:30:57 <validus> not that i would do that or anything like that
1049 2011-03-04 14:31:14 <spenvo> freakin creepo
1050 2011-03-04 14:31:17 <spenvo> lol, jk
1051 2011-03-04 14:31:19 <validus> lol
1052 2011-03-04 14:31:38 BlueMatt has joined
1053 2011-03-04 14:31:47 <luke-jr> I wish I had a local block explorer x.x
1054 2011-03-04 14:32:14 <spenvo> thx slusho, i'll definitely heed what you said.  good for motivation!
1055 2011-03-04 14:32:14 ivan has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
1056 2011-03-04 14:32:29 ivan has joined
1057 2011-03-04 14:32:37 <slush> yw :)
1058 2011-03-04 14:33:57 AmpEater has joined
1059 2011-03-04 14:42:20 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
1060 2011-03-04 14:42:21 <gribble> 66133.40560183
1061 2011-03-04 14:42:28 <UukGoblin> back in business...
1062 2011-03-04 14:42:40 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
1063 2011-03-04 14:42:41 <gribble> 111768
1064 2011-03-04 14:42:59 * Zarutian wonders if he should fire up his bitcoin node or not.
1065 2011-03-04 14:43:08 <UukGoblin> naah
1066 2011-03-04 14:43:10 <UukGoblin> don't
1067 2011-03-04 14:43:23 <UukGoblin> my nodes can handle the job fine
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1069 2011-03-04 14:44:20 <Zarutian> I usually start bitcoin, wait for until it has cought up, let it run for a while (no mining) and the shut it down.
1070 2011-03-04 14:44:38 <Zarutian> s/the s/then s/
1071 2011-03-04 14:50:10 <UukGoblin> oh, thought you meant mining
1072 2011-03-04 14:51:43 <spenvo> Wow, I know this sounds juvenile, but I have to share my excitement with the community here.  Someone actually made a transaction with me online--Here's why I'm excited:
1073 2011-03-04 14:51:49 <spenvo> It's the first time I've ever made money that didn't come from a bloodsucking manager!
1074 2011-03-04 14:52:35 <spenvo> it's only like half a bitcoin, but it's still pretty damn cool
1075 2011-03-04 14:55:11 <TD_> :-)
1076 2011-03-04 14:55:16 <TD_> niceness spenvo
1077 2011-03-04 14:56:04 <spenvo> haha, i know it's total noobness.  but it speaks to how awesome Bitcoin is -- quick transactions without fees
1078 2011-03-04 14:57:50 <magnetron> except for the exchange fees
1079 2011-03-04 14:58:13 <davex____> and eventually transaction fees
1080 2011-03-04 14:58:49 <CIA-55> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rf36b494 / net.cpp : Make send/receive limits bigger (10MB each) - http://bit.ly/hAVeCh
1081 2011-03-04 14:59:44 davex____ is now known as davex__
1082 2011-03-04 15:01:10 <TD_> heh
1083 2011-03-04 15:01:16 <TD_> guys, don't burst his bubble ;)
1084 2011-03-04 15:04:22 AmpEater has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1087 2011-03-04 15:07:30 <TD_> gavinandresen: it'll do for now. real solution will take more work i think .... node needs to monitor its own memory usage and not try to load the blocks off disk until more memory becomes available
1088 2011-03-04 15:07:51 <TD_> gavinandresen: or, maybe simpler, just start disconnecting nodes when memory usage gets too high. that way it's not block specific and there's no duplication of limits.
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1090 2011-03-04 15:09:00 <gavinandresen> TD_: agreed
1091 2011-03-04 15:09:52 <TD_> it's quite amazing how many different ways there are to DoS bitcoin :(
1092 2011-03-04 15:09:56 <gavinandresen> TD_: patches welcome... I'm really not the right person to be writing networking code  (I only did the -maxsendbuffer to respond quickly to the attack)
1093 2011-03-04 15:10:13 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1094 2011-03-04 15:10:15 <TD_> yeah, understood. i'll keep it in mind for future work :) right now i'm heads down on my java impl
1095 2011-03-04 15:10:36 larsivi has joined
1096 2011-03-04 15:10:49 <gavinandresen> hmmm....   so we'll have two implementations with different DoS vulnerabilities... I guess that's better
1097 2011-03-04 15:11:32 BlueMatt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1098 2011-03-04 15:12:47 <TD_> i'm only implementing 'client mode'/simplified payment verification
1099 2011-03-04 15:12:51 AAA_awright_ has joined
1100 2011-03-04 15:12:55 <TD_> it doesn't listen and it doesn't mine
1101 2011-03-04 15:13:09 <TD_> but it can still be DoSed in the usual ways .... gigantic blocks, loads of OP_CHECKSIGs etc
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1118 2011-03-04 15:27:03 <CIA-55> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r249 /trunk/serialize.h: Bump version to 0.3.20.02
1119 2011-03-04 15:27:06 <CIA-55> Bitcoin: gavinandresen * r250 /trunk/net.cpp: Make send/receive limits bigger (10MB each)
1120 2011-03-04 15:28:04 tg has joined
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1128 2011-03-04 15:32:10 <molecular> I'm confused... there's svn repo and git repo for bitcoin?
1129 2011-03-04 15:33:25 <BlueMatt> molecular: The github repo is the official one, where did you see a svn one?
1130 2011-03-04 15:34:40 <molecular> https://bitcoin.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bitcoin
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1136 2011-03-04 15:34:57 <molecular> also that CiA-55 bot is talking about revisions?
1137 2011-03-04 15:35:26 andrewh_ has joined
1138 2011-03-04 15:35:26 <molecular> r250 matches with above repository
1139 2011-03-04 15:35:34 <BlueMatt> molecular: dont think the sourceforge svn is really used
1140 2011-03-04 15:35:45 MT`BNC has joined
1141 2011-03-04 15:35:45 <molecular> gavin just commited 15:10 r250
1142 2011-03-04 15:35:47 <BlueMatt> maybe just updated once in a while
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1148 2011-03-04 15:35:55 <BlueMatt> oh, never mind
1149 2011-03-04 15:35:59 asherkin_ has joined
1150 2011-03-04 15:35:59 <BlueMatt> Guess its just synced then
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1155 2011-03-04 15:36:24 <molecular> likely. so answer to my question is: git is main repo
1156 2011-03-04 15:36:29 ArtForzZz has joined
1157 2011-03-04 15:36:31 <BlueMatt> yes
1158 2011-03-04 15:37:01 BCBot has joined
1159 2011-03-04 15:37:03 <TD> satoshi used to use svn
1160 2011-03-04 15:37:09 <TD> at some point it got moved to git
1161 2011-03-04 15:37:22 <Sami345> I found a possible security risk in MtGox
1162 2011-03-04 15:37:35 <Sami345> Where should I report :D
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1177 2011-03-04 15:38:45 <molecular> TD_: sounds like your working on some android app?
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1180 2011-03-04 15:39:06 <molecular> Sami345, probably email to adress given on mtgox main page
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1200 2011-03-04 15:46:26 <TD> molecular: just a java library at the moment
1201 2011-03-04 15:46:29 <TD> android app later, perhaps
1202 2011-03-04 15:46:36 <TD> but building a solid bitcoin implementation is a lot of work
1203 2011-03-04 15:48:19 <Diablo-D3> td: you know
1204 2011-03-04 15:48:26 <Diablo-D3> its actually NOT that hard to do most of it
1205 2011-03-04 15:49:14 <Diablo-D3> like, its damned easy to write the json api part ;)
1206 2011-03-04 15:49:30 <Diablo-D3> infact, I probably could write a bitcoin impl in like a month
1207 2011-03-04 15:50:21 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: not every one has as much free time as you, and he never said it was hard, just a lot of work
1208 2011-03-04 15:50:33 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: I dont have much freetime either
1209 2011-03-04 15:50:37 <Diablo-D3> otherwise I would have written one by now
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1213 2011-03-04 15:53:24 <Diablo-D3> writing a pool seems to be better use of time
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1216 2011-03-04 15:54:55 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: fair enough
1217 2011-03-04 15:55:01 <BlueMatt> is there still a netsplit?
1218 2011-03-04 15:56:17 <TD> feel free to write a bitcoin implementation in a month
1219 2011-03-04 15:56:26 <molecular> TD, are you aware of dirtyfilthy's bitcoin-wallet https://github.com/dirtyfilthy/bitcoin-wallet? that seems to have a lot implemented already.
1220 2011-03-04 15:56:29 <TD> yes
1221 2011-03-04 15:56:33 <TD> i am indeed aware of it
1222 2011-03-04 15:56:44 <TD> it's a similar code base
1223 2011-03-04 15:56:52 <asherkin> BlueMatt: the server shutdown
1224 2011-03-04 15:57:28 <BlueMatt> asherkin: oh, ouch
1225 2011-03-04 15:57:53 <molecular> TD, you're coding this in private?
1226 2011-03-04 15:58:11 <TD> it'll be open source soon. i got signoff from the trademark lawyers today.
1227 2011-03-04 15:58:13 <asherkin> [22:26] -Md- [GlobalNotice] Hi! this server is experiencing some troubles, we recommend you reconnect to a different one
1228 2011-03-04 15:58:13 <asherkin> [22:26] -calvino.freenode.net- Server Terminating. Md[~md@freenode/staff/md]
1229 2011-03-04 15:58:20 <asherkin> @ BlueMatt
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1231 2011-03-04 15:58:28 <molecular> TD: cool
1232 2011-03-04 15:58:29 <sipa> TD: trademark lawyers? :o
1233 2011-03-04 15:58:31 <TD> just need to add a proper build system so you can compile it without an IDE, then upload it into an external svn
1234 2011-03-04 15:58:51 <TD> and generally do the usual stuff needed to release an open source project
1235 2011-03-04 15:59:00 <Diablo-D3> td: actually
1236 2011-03-04 15:59:01 <BlueMatt> asherkin: wow
1237 2011-03-04 15:59:06 <molecular> TD, what IDE are you using?
1238 2011-03-04 15:59:10 <Diablo-D3> if you write the part that interprets the protocol from other bitcoin clients
1239 2011-03-04 15:59:19 <Diablo-D3> you'd be helping people out
1240 2011-03-04 15:59:25 <TD> intellij 10
1241 2011-03-04 15:59:39 <TD> the library implements most of the simplified payment verification
1242 2011-03-04 15:59:41 <Diablo-D3> also
1243 2011-03-04 15:59:41 <Diablo-D3> dude
1244 2011-03-04 15:59:48 <Diablo-D3> ECLIPSE
1245 2011-03-04 15:59:49 <TD> block chain download, block verification, wallets and keystores etc
1246 2011-03-04 15:59:49 <Diablo-D3> USE IT
1247 2011-03-04 15:59:59 <molecular> Diablo-D3, lol
1248 2011-03-04 16:00:00 <TD> i've used both and prefer the newest version of intellij thanks :)
1249 2011-03-04 16:00:04 <Diablo-D3> feh
1250 2011-03-04 16:00:10 <Diablo-D3> ttps://github.com/dirtyfilthy/bitcoin-wallet
1251 2011-03-04 16:00:13 <Diablo-D3> that does almost everything
1252 2011-03-04 16:00:14 <Diablo-D3> ?
1253 2011-03-04 16:00:14 <TD> but i switch back and forth.
1254 2011-03-04 16:00:23 <TD> it is missing quite a bit actually
1255 2011-03-04 16:00:32 <molecular> what bits?
1256 2011-03-04 16:00:34 <TD> but then my implementation isn't really finished either :)
1257 2011-03-04 16:00:35 <Diablo-D3> but it does the bitcoin protocol?
1258 2011-03-04 16:00:44 * Diablo-D3 zoomjs
1259 2011-03-04 16:00:58 <Diablo-D3> thats the part I didnt want to do
1260 2011-03-04 16:01:14 <TD> molecular: documentation ;) block chain re-orgs. full block verification
1261 2011-03-04 16:01:18 <TD> a bunch of things
1262 2011-03-04 16:01:26 <TD> yes my lib speaks the regular bitcoin protocol
1263 2011-03-04 16:01:27 <molecular> looks like the protocol is implemented in dirtyfilthy's code, not sure if complete, though
1264 2011-03-04 16:01:31 <TD> that's how i discovered 0.3.20 was broken
1265 2011-03-04 16:01:40 <molecular> broken?
1266 2011-03-04 16:01:46 <TD> send limits. see the thread on the forum.
1267 2011-03-04 16:01:48 <TD> anyway
1268 2011-03-04 16:01:53 <TD> dirtyfilthy has done a good job
1269 2011-03-04 16:02:17 <TD> but his code is almost entirely uncommented, has no real api and no real docs. part of the point (for me) of doing a java reimplementation is to make bitcoin more accessible
1270 2011-03-04 16:02:34 <TD> anyway, you can compare the two after mine is released
1271 2011-03-04 16:02:40 <TD> hopefully early next week.
1272 2011-03-04 16:03:01 <Diablo-D3> TD: heh, what I'll have to do is start mine, then destroys yours, and then convince you to work on mine
1273 2011-03-04 16:03:06 <Diablo-D3> its more efficient that way
1274 2011-03-04 16:03:15 <TD> good luck ;)
1275 2011-03-04 16:03:40 <Diablo-D3> actually, is yours for android?
1276 2011-03-04 16:03:58 <Diablo-D3> because if you just shit out a normal jar, I'll just import that
1277 2011-03-04 16:04:25 <TD> it should be able to run on android. it includes its own copy of bouncy castle.
1278 2011-03-04 16:04:34 <TD> so you should be able to jar it up and use it on a phone
1279 2011-03-04 16:04:34 <molecular> TD: looking forward to next week
1280 2011-03-04 16:04:50 <TD> i wasn't going to start on an android app until the core code is more complete and better tested. in particular right now it doesn't persist the block chain at all.
1281 2011-03-04 16:05:03 <TD> so it takes a few minutes to start up when run against the production block chain
1282 2011-03-04 16:05:32 <molecular> TD, for opensourcing... maybe it would be easier to switch to eclipse (regarding build process), since more people use eclipse?
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1284 2011-03-04 16:07:20 <TD> it should just have an ant build.
1285 2011-03-04 16:07:31 <TD> the structure is simple enough that IDEs can figure it out automatically
1286 2011-03-04 16:07:44 <TD> just compile everything, really. i don't want IDE specific files checked into version control, i think
1287 2011-03-04 16:07:50 <TD> that said i'm more of a c++ dev than a java dev really
1288 2011-03-04 16:08:01 <TD> if it's typical to include eclipse configs in open source releases i can do that
1289 2011-03-04 16:08:14 <Diablo-D3> td: yeah I dont see the point of him doing bouncy castle
1290 2011-03-04 16:08:23 <Diablo-D3> java _comes with a fucking sha256 impl, I use it_
1291 2011-03-04 16:08:44 <molecular> I don't even know about that. I'm usually happy at the point where I can get netbeans (yes, I'm switching to eclipse) to build something
1292 2011-03-04 16:08:55 <x6763> i wrote a bitcoin crypto library in java that i'll eventually release the source code to...it covers all the different crypto things bitcoin does and is compatible with android (it contains some bouncy castle code, but doesn't use the bouncy castle lib)...compiles to a 40KB jar file
1293 2011-03-04 16:09:04 <molecular> know about wether it's typical to include eclipse stuff
1294 2011-03-04 16:09:17 <Diablo-D3> HEY GUYS
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1296 2011-03-04 16:09:24 <Diablo-D3> crazypc is going out of buisness
1297 2011-03-04 16:09:37 <Diablo-D3> this is 100% relevant to our mining obsession
1298 2011-03-04 16:09:42 <TD> Diablo-D3: it's for the EC crypto
1299 2011-03-04 16:09:47 <TD> not hashing
1300 2011-03-04 16:09:50 <Diablo-D3> td: java has that
1301 2011-03-04 16:09:52 <Diablo-D3> I think
1302 2011-03-04 16:09:55 <TD> not on android, unfortunately
1303 2011-03-04 16:09:57 <TD> it was removed for space reasons
1304 2011-03-04 16:10:05 <Diablo-D3> android .... isnt an impl of java.
1305 2011-03-04 16:10:06 <TD> this is why both dirtyfilthy and me include a copy in-tree
1306 2011-03-04 16:10:15 <Diablo-D3> and besides, how hard is it to impl it yourself
1307 2011-03-04 16:10:24 <TD> x6763: why use it over BC?
1308 2011-03-04 16:10:29 <TD> Diablo-D3: ec crypto? pretty damn hard.
1309 2011-03-04 16:10:43 <Diablo-D3> td: not when you have wikipedia.
1310 2011-03-04 16:11:12 <x6763> why have a whole bouncy castle lib when you only need a very very tiny piece of it?
1311 2011-03-04 16:11:14 <molecular> crazypc?
1312 2011-03-04 16:11:28 <TD> take a look at the openssl or bouncy castle EC implementations. i think it's fairly non trivial. you have to be comfortable with some fairly advanced mathematics.
1313 2011-03-04 16:11:46 <TD> x6763: because crypto is tricky and easy to screw up, so brand name counts for a lot.
1314 2011-03-04 16:11:51 <Diablo-D3> molecular: yeah, they're big with the ricer crowd
1315 2011-03-04 16:12:00 <TD> i'd rather use openssl really. but BC is convenient and can work well on android if renamed.
1316 2011-03-04 16:12:00 <Diablo-D3> molecular: they sell a lot of fan and water cooling shit
1317 2011-03-04 16:12:10 <x6763> TD: that's why it contains code from bouncy castle...i didn't implement the ec crypto
1318 2011-03-04 16:12:12 <TD> openssl has some robustness against side channel attacks
1319 2011-03-04 16:12:16 <TD> x6763: ah ok
1320 2011-03-04 16:12:21 <TD> yeah it'd be interesting to take a look
1321 2011-03-04 16:12:22 <Diablo-D3> who is x6763?
1322 2011-03-04 16:12:28 * x6763 is
1323 2011-03-04 16:12:42 <Diablo-D3> x6763: what are you using bouncy castle for?
1324 2011-03-04 16:12:44 <xelister> TD: btw
1325 2011-03-04 16:13:00 <xelister> anyone knows best way to vefify data signature with pubkey? in java
1326 2011-03-04 16:13:05 <molecular> sound like it might be dirtyfilthy?
1327 2011-03-04 16:13:05 <x6763> Diablo-D3: i copied a small amount of code from bouncy castle to write my lightweight bitcoin crypto library
1328 2011-03-04 16:13:32 <TD> xelister: i posted some example code for the EC crypto to the forum at some point
1329 2011-03-04 16:13:42 <TD> xelister: look at the BC lightweight API docs
1330 2011-03-04 16:13:50 <TD> or just use the standard java crypto
1331 2011-03-04 16:14:43 <Diablo-D3> x6763 == dirtyfilthy?
1332 2011-03-04 16:14:55 <x6763> Diablo-D3: no
1333 2011-03-04 16:15:07 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit how many people have bitcoin libs
1334 2011-03-04 16:15:29 <TD> there are lots out there. i don't know of any full reimplementations of the core system yet.
1335 2011-03-04 16:15:30 <x6763> i started working on a bitcoin client a month or two ago...it's pretty close to finished
1336 2011-03-04 16:15:41 * x6763 is writing it in clojure
1337 2011-03-04 16:15:45 <Diablo-D3> argh fail!
1338 2011-03-04 16:15:47 <Diablo-D3> do not want!
1339 2011-03-04 16:15:48 <TD> ah yeah. i remember that ;)
1340 2011-03-04 16:17:17 <molecular> sounds kinda like efforts could be pooled... 3 java impls (close to) finished
1341 2011-03-04 16:17:30 <Kiba> which one will claim the android prize?
1342 2011-03-04 16:17:39 <molecular> the 4th?
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1344 2011-03-04 16:17:58 <TD> haha
1345 2011-03-04 16:17:58 <Diablo-D3> well
1346 2011-03-04 16:18:00 <Diablo-D3> what Im going to do
1347 2011-03-04 16:18:04 <Diablo-D3> is take all three
1348 2011-03-04 16:18:06 <Diablo-D3> rip the good parts out
1349 2011-03-04 16:18:11 <Diablo-D3> and them mash it with my code
1350 2011-03-04 16:18:12 <molecular> mix thoroughly
1351 2011-03-04 16:18:16 <TD> there's still some way to go, depending on your goals.
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1354 2011-03-04 16:18:34 <TD> satoshis implementation doesn't have any way to retrieve merkle branches yet
1355 2011-03-04 16:18:35 OVerLoRDI_ has joined
1356 2011-03-04 16:18:39 <Diablo-D3> TD: well, for one
1357 2011-03-04 16:18:48 <Diablo-D3> I already have, basically, the json api done
1358 2011-03-04 16:19:03 <Diablo-D3> I just have nothing to glue it to
1359 2011-03-04 16:19:10 <TD> that's rather the rub isn't it
1360 2011-03-04 16:19:16 <Diablo-D3> heh
1361 2011-03-04 16:19:17 <Diablo-D3> well
1362 2011-03-04 16:19:22 <Diablo-D3> remember, Im writing pool software
1363 2011-03-04 16:19:26 <Diablo-D3> its the same fucking code
1364 2011-03-04 16:19:38 <Diablo-D3> except instead, I just pass it to a real bitcoin as a client... which I also have code for
1365 2011-03-04 16:19:45 <BlueMatt> Has anyone written a way to retrieve merkle branches yet in any client?
1366 2011-03-04 16:19:58 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: it cant be THAT hard.
1367 2011-03-04 16:20:11 <TD> there's no such command in the real client. it's not a huge pile of work to implement. just requires some care.
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1369 2011-03-04 16:20:26 <TD> probably a few days of full time work to spec out, implement and prove interop with some other library
1370 2011-03-04 16:20:31 <Diablo-D3> also, I think I like my new code for being a client
1371 2011-03-04 16:20:35 <TD> anyway. beer time.
1372 2011-03-04 16:20:39 <Diablo-D3> I should add that to my miner
1373 2011-03-04 16:20:46 <Diablo-D3> TD: well, do me a favor
1374 2011-03-04 16:20:53 <Diablo-D3> make the API easy enough that I can subvert parts of it
1375 2011-03-04 16:21:07 <Diablo-D3> Im very picky about networking code
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1383 2011-03-04 16:27:47 <farzong> bitcoin ftw
1384 2011-03-04 16:28:15 tower has joined
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1388 2011-03-04 16:29:39 <nanotube> the more clients the better.
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1403 2011-03-04 16:32:35 <BlueMatt> nanotube: true
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1433 2011-03-04 16:39:19 <x6763> is there a site that will give you plain hexdumps of blocks or transactions?
1434 2011-03-04 16:39:24 dnm has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1438 2011-03-04 16:39:51 <TD> x6763: not that i know of. you have to do it by requesting them from a node and printing them yourself
1439 2011-03-04 16:40:02 <TD> or you can use a modified bitcointools to try and pull them out of the datafiles
1440 2011-03-04 16:41:17 <EvanR-work> is MT`BNC MagicalTux?
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1449 2011-03-04 16:50:21 <mortalis> Whats a good reference for developping a bitcoin miner?
1450 2011-03-04 16:51:41 <mmarker> What, specifically, do you want to know about mining? jgarzik's cpuminer is a good place to look at how to talk to a server in C, Diablo for people who like java, and poclbm for python.
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1455 2011-03-04 16:54:01 <mortalis> Python for sure.
1456 2011-03-04 16:54:06 <EvanR-work> why does implementation matter
1457 2011-03-04 16:54:18 <EvanR-work> results matter
1458 2011-03-04 16:54:30 <EvanR-work> use the one with better reported (i guess) performance
1459 2011-03-04 16:54:37 <mortalis> Other then looking at the source code of clients, is there other resources not covered on the wiki?
1460 2011-03-04 16:54:48 <EvanR-work> oh youre writing a miner, nevermind
1461 2011-03-04 16:54:50 <mmarker> Not really.
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1466 2011-03-04 16:55:03 <mmarker> The src is the de facto standard
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1475 2011-03-04 16:55:44 <mortalis> Cool beans. Thx for the input!
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1518 2011-03-04 17:26:44 <jgarzik> burstnet press release: "we have added IPv6!"   me: "add IPv6 to my VPS"  burstnet: "done!"  me: "well, I cannot ping6 my own site, and other sites cannot ping6 me"
1519 2011-03-04 17:26:45 <jgarzik> sigh
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1523 2011-03-04 17:28:40 <bonsaikitten> jgarzik: feature!
1524 2011-03-04 17:28:43 <bonsaikitten> it's anti-DDOS
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1530 2011-03-04 17:30:59 <A1ex1> jgarzik, I'm using your miner with the BitPenny pool
1531 2011-03-04 17:31:19 <A1ex1> But I've noticed that each time I start it, VMWare's CPU usage shoots up as well
1532 2011-03-04 17:31:40 nameless1 is now known as nameless|
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1535 2011-03-04 17:31:54 <jgarzik> A1ex1: well...  it's a CPU miner.  CPU usage is supposed to shoot up!
1536 2011-03-04 17:31:55 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|pokes nathan7 
1537 2011-03-04 17:32:01 <sipa> you tun it inside vmware?
1538 2011-03-04 17:32:06 <sipa> run
1539 2011-03-04 17:32:15 <A1ex1> No, it's running in my host.
1540 2011-03-04 17:32:21 <A1ex1> jgarzik: Not from VMWare though
1541 2011-03-04 17:32:35 <A1ex1>  3398 alex      20   0 1600m 1.2g 172m S  226 31.3  49:48.03 vmware-vmx
1542 2011-03-04 17:32:35 <A1ex1>  3916 alex      39  19 77692 3048 2252 S  148  0.1   7:27.11 minerd
1543 2011-03-04 17:32:47 <jgarzik> A1ex1: don't run VMware, it's crap.  use KVM.
1544 2011-03-04 17:32:55 <A1ex1> then i close minerd
1545 2011-03-04 17:32:57 <A1ex1> and this happens
1546 2011-03-04 17:32:57 <A1ex1>  3398 alex      20   0 1600m 1.2g 172m S   68 31.3  50:11.98 vmware-vmx
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1549 2011-03-04 17:33:32 <jgarzik> A1ex1: so IOW, it's accumulating CPU time without minerd even running
1550 2011-03-04 17:33:38 <jgarzik> A1ex1: like I said...  crapola :)
1551 2011-03-04 17:33:52 <A1ex1> But why is your miner interfering with it?
1552 2011-03-04 17:34:17 <A1ex1> They're two completely unrelated processes
1553 2011-03-04 17:34:35 sigkill has joined
1554 2011-03-04 17:35:39 <mmarker> jgarzik: Still working on the pull requests. I'm working on cleaning up the SSE2 code w.r.t autotools, so I dont have to resort to ugly build hacks
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1556 2011-03-04 17:39:58 <Mango-chan> !seen morpheus
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1558 2011-03-04 17:40:05 <jgarzik> A1ex1: all the miner does is use CPU, working on a math problem, and occasionally make an HTTP connection.  it is about as simple a program as one can devise.
1559 2011-03-04 17:40:20 <jgarzik> A1ex1: so vmware is having a problem sucking for unknown reasons
1560 2011-03-04 17:41:02 <jgarzik> cpuminer does nothing with VMware, or virtual machines, or anything but makesimply HTTP requests
1561 2011-03-04 17:41:05 <jgarzik> make simple
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1564 2011-03-04 17:47:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: does anyone have a rough checklist of things to do for lightweight client support?
1565 2011-03-04 17:48:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I was considering looking into the sub-task that removes spent transactions from local block database after X confirmations (X=120?)
1566 2011-03-04 17:49:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: since that would create the first occasion of incomplete blocks, I'm trying to figure out all the implications
1567 2011-03-04 17:49:55 <jgarzik> nanotube: ChanServ gave you ops... does that mean channel ownership is sorted out?
1568 2011-03-04 17:50:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Mostly the ability to request a merkle branch
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1570 2011-03-04 17:51:15 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: lightweight client doesnt need ANY blocks saved aside from a few checkpoints
1571 2011-03-04 17:51:21 <nanotube> jgarzik: the ownership of /this/ channel was never an issue. #bitcoin is another problem entirely. :)
1572 2011-03-04 17:51:31 <jgarzik> nanotube: ah, ok
1573 2011-03-04 17:51:43 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yep
1574 2011-03-04 17:52:11 <nanotube> jgarzik: speaking of which... did you ever prod the freenode guys about your grf?
1575 2011-03-04 17:52:23 <jgarzik> nanotube: I'll go do that right now...
1576 2011-03-04 17:53:00 <mizerydearia> Does anyone know if the bitcoin logo (see wikipedia article or bitcoin.it for high resolution copy) is available in psd or xcf?
1577 2011-03-04 17:53:05 <nanotube> jgarzik: cool. follow the instructions they have in that blog post... that's what one of the opers told me.
1578 2011-03-04 17:53:05 <mizerydearia> preferably in layers
1579 2011-03-04 17:53:12 <mmarker> Oh, that raises a question from someone trying to write a lightweight client...how would I use the merkle root to verify transactions?
1580 2011-03-04 17:54:21 <BlueMatt> mmarker: you get a block's headers (already doable) and a merkle branch (needs done) and you hash the branch till you get the merkle root, if it matches great
1581 2011-03-04 17:54:28 <jgarzik> nanotube: you don't happen to have the date of my group reg, do you?
1582 2011-03-04 17:54:29 * nanotube doesn't really have a complete mental model of how things will work with headers-only blockchain.
1583 2011-03-04 17:54:49 <mizerydearia> If yuo want to help contribute towards grf, see #freenode-gms - the Group Management System development channel
1584 2011-03-04 17:54:53 <nanotube> jgarzik: no. i could probably approximate it, by looking at my logs and see when we first spoke about it...
1585 2011-03-04 17:55:00 <mmarker> BlueMatt: gotcha. So the flow would be something like:
1586 2011-03-04 17:55:10 <BlueMatt> mmarker: of course you need a block checkpoint hardcoded and then pull subsequent block headers till you get to the block which has the tx
1587 2011-03-04 17:55:11 <jgarzik> nanotube: if you could do that, that would be helpful...
1588 2011-03-04 17:55:25 <nanotube> jgarzik: ok. now... to figure out where we spoke about it. hehe.
1589 2011-03-04 17:55:32 <mmarker> BlueMatt: Oh, oh, I have that solved for my client!
1590 2011-03-04 17:55:53 sigkill has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1591 2011-03-04 17:55:54 <BlueMatt> The question I have is how often should a checkpoint be added?
1592 2011-03-04 17:55:56 <jgarzik> nanotube: if you have that blog post link, that would be helpful too.  it is _very_ slow loading, here.
1593 2011-03-04 17:55:58 <mmarker> But it requires some of the monitoring patches in gavin's bitcoin fork
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1595 2011-03-04 17:56:34 <nanotube> jgarzik: i have a link, but blog.freenode.net fails to respond.
1596 2011-03-04 17:56:38 <mizerydearia> jgarzik, Do you remember any words used in yuor previous discussion?
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1598 2011-03-04 17:56:48 <BlueMatt> mmarker: no problem there
1599 2011-03-04 17:56:52 <jgarzik> nanotube: same here :/
1600 2011-03-04 17:57:04 bk128 has joined
1601 2011-03-04 17:57:04 <jgarzik> nanotube: lessee if google cache has it...
1602 2011-03-04 17:57:12 <jgarzik> mizerydearia: freenode group registration
1603 2011-03-04 17:57:15 <nanotube> jgarzik: this would be the link http://blog.freenode.net/2010/06/group-registration-form-verifications/
1604 2011-03-04 17:57:18 <mmarker> BlueMatt: Basically, when my client makes a transaction, it also registers the address it used. Sends that to a bitcoind with monitoring. When the daemon sees a block, it fires off a push request to my mobile client.
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1606 2011-03-04 17:57:40 <mmarker> Client wakes up, would then snag the merkle branch and block headers youmentioned. Check everything. Done.
1607 2011-03-04 17:58:09 * molecular accidentally installed stream-sdk 2.3 -> not good :|
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1609 2011-03-04 17:58:11 <BlueMatt> mmarker: registers the address it used?
1610 2011-03-04 17:58:13 <jgarzik> lovely.  google cache is hanging, waiting for blog.freenode.net...
1611 2011-03-04 17:58:21 <mizerydearia> No instances in my logs
1612 2011-03-04 17:58:28 <jgarzik> WTF is the purpose of the cache, then?
1613 2011-03-04 17:58:33 <BlueMatt> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.freenode.net/2010/06/group-registration-form-verifications/&hl=en&strip=1
1614 2011-03-04 17:58:44 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: You have to use text-only version ^
1615 2011-03-04 17:58:54 <mmarker> BlueMatt: When you make a transaction, you attach where the coin(s) are from, correct?
1616 2011-03-04 17:58:55 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=4e38ae1e1d87434b80fcc3f9cb35d33e&topic=2159.msg28274#msg28274
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1618 2011-03-04 17:59:15 <mmarker> for transactions in, you'd need to register with the bitcoind-with-monitoring the addresses you're interested in
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1620 2011-03-04 18:00:31 <jgarzik> mizerydearia: thanks, that at least gives me a date
1621 2011-03-04 18:00:34 <BlueMatt> mmarker: so your client holds the wallet (ie list of txes) but doesnt hold the wallet (client private keys)
1622 2011-03-04 18:00:48 <mizerydearia> jgarzik, congratulations.  tell me how it goes after it's over ^_^
1623 2011-03-04 18:01:50 <mmarker> No,in reverse. The client holds the keys and the transactions. But I'm using the bitcoind-with-monitoring to tell the client when transactions have been posted. Goal is to minimize the amount of time the mobile client needs to be talking on the p2p network
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1626 2011-03-04 18:02:39 <BlueMatt> mmarker: ok, so what you meant was that the client makes and signs the tx then sends it to  a full bitcoind
1627 2011-03-04 18:02:49 <nanotube> jgarzik: yea couldn't find the first instance of our talk (i think), but earliest i can find is Dec 12, so you probably first mentioned it maybe a week  earlier.
1628 2011-03-04 18:03:03 <nanotube> ah i see mizerydearia has hooked you up with a similar datestamp
1629 2011-03-04 18:03:09 <nanotube> :)
1630 2011-03-04 18:03:12 <jgarzik> <marienz> jgarzik: I'd poke people, but there's a lot of overlap with the people currently trying to do something about network instability
1631 2011-03-04 18:03:12 <jgarzik> <marienz> jgarzik: can you please prod about this again later, when freenode is being less bumpy?
1632 2011-03-04 18:03:14 <BlueMatt> mmarker: does it connect to the p2p network at all?
1633 2011-03-04 18:03:15 <jgarzik> sigh
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1635 2011-03-04 18:03:27 <nanotube> mmm heh ok
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1637 2011-03-04 18:03:35 <nanotube> well hey, we still have plenty of channels.
1638 2011-03-04 18:03:50 <BlueMatt> dont think we really need another one, do we?
1639 2011-03-04 18:04:16 <mizerydearia> BlueMatt, There are many users that come to #bitcoin ask something, never join this channel and occasionally disappear never to return
1640 2011-03-04 18:04:24 <BlueMatt> ah
1641 2011-03-04 18:04:27 <mizerydearia> even with gribble's notice, that they seemingly never read
1642 2011-03-04 18:04:43 <BlueMatt> so it will be another -discussion?
1643 2011-03-04 18:04:57 <BlueMatt> not used except by noobs asking questions?
1644 2011-03-04 18:05:00 <mmarker> Bluematt: Client will connect with the p2p network
1645 2011-03-04 18:05:06 <mizerydearia> Or, a more recognizable channel to interact with users that would otherwise not know about this channel
1646 2011-03-04 18:05:29 <BlueMatt> mmarker: ah, so what part of the patch do you need?
1647 2011-03-04 18:06:25 <mmarker> BlueMatt: I'm guessing the merkle hash bit...but from what it sounds like...if I can get the block my transaction was in, I don't need the merkle tree
1648 2011-03-04 18:06:34 <mmarker> I can just get the block that contains my transaction
1649 2011-03-04 18:06:48 <BlueMatt> mmarker: yes, you would get the full tx list, ie incl entire merkle tree
1650 2011-03-04 18:07:01 <BlueMatt> so why did you say you needed monitor?
1651 2011-03-04 18:07:23 <mmarker> The monitor is so that I can put the mobile client to sleep as long as physically possible
1652 2011-03-04 18:07:48 <mmarker> the monitor will see when a block of interest is available, then wake up the client to act on it
1653 2011-03-04 18:07:50 <BlueMatt> mmarker: what does it provide?
1654 2011-03-04 18:08:24 sigkill has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1655 2011-03-04 18:08:32 <mmarker> BlueMatt: simple matching of transactions of interest.
1656 2011-03-04 18:09:14 <BlueMatt> mmarker: oh, so the monitor does the work of picking the txes that are of interest instead of doing that on the client?
1657 2011-03-04 18:09:30 <mmarker> Yup
1658 2011-03-04 18:09:54 <mmarker> Again. Doing a wakeup is much much cheaper for battery usage than polling, even if the poll is a long, LONG time
1659 2011-03-04 18:10:09 <BlueMatt> mmarker: I agree, it is a good way to do it on a phone...however, making clients do that processing is a bad idea for ddos
1660 2011-03-04 18:10:26 <mmarker> Checking if a transaction is valid?
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1662 2011-03-04 18:10:47 <BlueMatt> mmarker: making the other clients on a network check if your address is in a tx is not too smart
1663 2011-03-04 18:11:07 <BlueMatt> mmarker: it could allow for some dos, which is not something we want to do right now...
1664 2011-03-04 18:11:16 <mmarker> Bluematt: Nono, not other clients
1665 2011-03-04 18:11:30 <mmarker> just one client that's listening on the network
1666 2011-03-04 18:11:48 <BlueMatt> mmarker: So...what is the monitor requirement then?
1667 2011-03-04 18:12:01 <mmarker> monitor would work something like this:
1668 2011-03-04 18:12:28 <mmarker> Mobile client tells monitor "here's a list of addresses I'm interested in. Send me a wakeup when you see any activity around them"
1669 2011-03-04 18:12:57 <mmarker> monitor would then watch the blocks get generated in the network. Monitor looks at the transactions in the new blocks.
1670 2011-03-04 18:13:01 <BlueMatt> mmarker: So, what I said?
1671 2011-03-04 18:13:14 <BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> mmarker: making the other clients on a network check if your address is in a tx is not too smart
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1675 2011-03-04 18:13:56 <mmarker> What's the issue w.r.t. ddos here, then?
1676 2011-03-04 18:14:18 <mmarker> I'm missing it, it seems
1677 2011-03-04 18:14:44 <Diablo-D3> back
1678 2011-03-04 18:14:54 <BlueMatt> Watching txes for addresses specified by other clients adds processing power needed on clients in the network
1679 2011-03-04 18:15:13 <BlueMatt> mmarker: and this could open the door to just flooding clients with addresses to wath
1680 2011-03-04 18:15:34 <Diablo-D3> heh?
1681 2011-03-04 18:16:17 <mmarker> BlueMatt: I don't see this as a problem, since a) the little monitor is doing just that, watching the bitcoin network. Snooping in on it, so to speak.
1682 2011-03-04 18:16:51 <mmarker> and b) the client can decide if it wants to act on what's going on.
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1684 2011-03-04 18:17:23 <BlueMatt> mmarker: so how do I limit the number addresses I watch for, keep in mind that most cell networks are behind massive isp level nat
1685 2011-03-04 18:17:31 sigkill_ has joined
1686 2011-03-04 18:17:48 <mmarker> BlueMatt: addresses as in bitcoin addresses. Not IP
1687 2011-03-04 18:18:08 <BlueMatt> yea, if your client sends me 10000000 addresses to watch, thats a bit much load on my client
1688 2011-03-04 18:18:14 <mmarker> BlueMatt: on a lower level, I'm programming for android, so it's C2DM, which is all device level stuff.
1689 2011-03-04 18:18:26 <mmarker> That's why the public watching client is designed for this
1690 2011-03-04 18:18:38 <mmarker> Everyone else's client isn't doing squat.
1691 2011-03-04 18:19:00 <mmarker> A diagram may be in order.
1692 2011-03-04 18:19:05 <BlueMatt> mmarker: oh, so there is another network of clients running monitor?
1693 2011-03-04 18:19:14 <BlueMatt> or one central monitor?
1694 2011-03-04 18:19:29 <mmarker> One central monitor. or a cluster of monitoring daemons
1695 2011-03-04 18:19:33 <BlueMatt> in which case, I am completely in favor of this plan (well 95%)
1696 2011-03-04 18:20:30 <BlueMatt> Oh, ok I see where you are going with this...so you get pushed by a central monitor then you check it with the p2p network?
1697 2011-03-04 18:21:10 <mmarker> yup
1698 2011-03-04 18:21:13 <BlueMatt> mmarker: the problem I see is that you have to keep p2p network connections open
1699 2011-03-04 18:21:29 <mmarker> That's where it gets interesting.
1700 2011-03-04 18:21:53 <mmarker> The client would only open the connections, get what it needs, then close them again.
1701 2011-03-04 18:22:05 <BlueMatt> mmarker: that sounds inefficient
1702 2011-03-04 18:22:13 <mmarker> Where the rub is is (1), can the network handle clients entering and leaving all the time.
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1707 2011-03-04 18:22:59 <mmarker> and (2) Can I be sure to really validate a transaction...since I would need to wait a few blocks to be certain
1708 2011-03-04 18:23:16 <BlueMatt> mmarker: Not sure what kind of load is created on a new incoming connections
1709 2011-03-04 18:23:42 <Diablo-D3> so
1710 2011-03-04 18:23:48 <mmarker> BlueMatt: you're going to get that with any mobile client. Dropped signal, CDMA voice/data issues, etc.
1711 2011-03-04 18:23:48 <Diablo-D3> are we all merging the java clients or what? ;)
1712 2011-03-04 18:23:50 <BlueMatt> mmarker: So, make the monitor node wait 2 blocks before pushing
1713 2011-03-04 18:24:00 <mmarker> BlueMatt: that's a good idea!
1714 2011-03-04 18:24:33 <mmarker> Or, more apt. one push to say "hey, your transaction is out there" and a second "your transaction is confirmed"
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1716 2011-03-04 18:24:47 <mmarker> so a "transaction pending" and "transaction confirmed"
1717 2011-03-04 18:24:49 <BlueMatt> mmarker: fair enough
1718 2011-03-04 18:25:38 <Diablo-D3> where did TD wander off to?
1719 2011-03-04 18:25:40 <BlueMatt> mmarker: I understand the desire to check txes in a safe way, but I think it would just be simpler for everyone if it is just an rpc client...Who wants to manage multiple wallets?
1720 2011-03-04 18:26:03 <mmarker> BlueMatt: I'm thinking of the non-techie use case.
1721 2011-03-04 18:26:17 <Diablo-D3> hey guys
1722 2011-03-04 18:26:18 <mmarker> Trying to get people to run a mobile client, THEN secure a bitcoind for their personal use?
1723 2011-03-04 18:26:20 <Diablo-D3> you know what we need?
1724 2011-03-04 18:26:26 <BlueMatt> mmarker: And make a service like mybitcoin with an rpc interface?
1725 2011-03-04 18:26:27 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: vodka?
1726 2011-03-04 18:26:28 <Diablo-D3> #bitcoin-client-dev or something
1727 2011-03-04 18:26:47 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: yea, kinda
1728 2011-03-04 18:27:11 <mmarker> We do...now that there's strong interest.
1729 2011-03-04 18:27:20 <mmarker> blueMatt: exactly.
1730 2011-03-04 18:27:39 <lfm> if you're going that far why wouldnt they just use mybitcoin and save everyone a lot of effort
1731 2011-03-04 18:27:48 <BlueMatt> mmarker: I think spending your time writing a rpc server like mybitcoin w/ rpc would be a better use
1732 2011-03-04 18:28:00 <xelister> lfm: 3... 2... 1... Diablo-D3 will go BLARARAHGHGH STFU NOOB on you in a second
1733 2011-03-04 18:28:21 <Diablo-D3> someone start a client channel and tell me what it is
1734 2011-03-04 18:28:47 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin-client-dev
1735 2011-03-04 18:28:53 <mmarker> This is a compromise option. The user can keep their wallet secure versus trusting a 2rd party, but without the hassle of running their own bitcoind interface.
1736 2011-03-04 18:28:58 <BlueMatt> Its not worth registering
1737 2011-03-04 18:29:00 <BlueMatt> Just use it
1738 2011-03-04 18:29:12 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: join you noob
1739 2011-03-04 18:29:30 <Diablo-D3> x6763: join
1740 2011-03-04 18:29:33 sigkill_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1741 2011-03-04 18:29:33 <BlueMatt> mmarker: finish on #bitcoin-client-dev
1742 2011-03-04 18:29:47 <Diablo-D3> TD: join
1743 2011-03-04 18:31:36 sigkill_ has joined
1744 2011-03-04 18:35:44 mmarker has quit (Quit: RUN. BOSS!)
1745 2011-03-04 18:36:06 twobitcoins_ is now known as twobitcoins
1746 2011-03-04 18:38:30 <farzong> bitqoin
1747 2011-03-04 18:41:16 sigkill_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1748 2011-03-04 18:42:25 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
1749 2011-03-04 18:42:59 sigkill_ has joined
1750 2011-03-04 18:43:16 kermit has joined
1751 2011-03-04 18:43:33 Guest3230 is now known as sneak
1752 2011-03-04 18:46:11 kermit is now known as 15SAAC1T0
1753 2011-03-04 18:46:12 sigkill_ has quit (Changing host)
1754 2011-03-04 18:46:12 sigkill_ has joined
1755 2011-03-04 18:46:13 sneak has quit (Changing host)
1756 2011-03-04 18:46:13 sneak has joined
1757 2011-03-04 18:46:36 <dazoe> Has anyone come up with a symbol to use for bitcoin? like $ = dollar and € = euro
1758 2011-03-04 18:47:16 <BlueMatt> dazoe: there is a B with a verical line through it
1759 2011-03-04 18:47:21 <BlueMatt> vertical*
1760 2011-03-04 18:48:33 <dazoe> you mean ฿
1761 2011-03-04 18:48:51 greyface has joined
1762 2011-03-04 18:49:21 <BlueMatt> yes
1763 2011-03-04 18:50:24 sigkill_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1764 2011-03-04 18:52:59 discHead has quit (Quit:)
1765 2011-03-04 18:58:21 Myckel has joined
1766 2011-03-04 18:58:22 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
1767 2011-03-04 18:58:22 Myckel has joined
1768 2011-03-04 19:01:12 mtve has joined
1769 2011-03-04 19:01:34 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|I hate that freenode masks its server names
1770 2011-03-04 19:01:48 DjeZAeL_ is now known as DjeZAeL
1771 2011-03-04 19:01:56 <farzong> hey man
1772 2011-03-04 19:02:03 <farzong> wheres my shaaaaqqqqq
1773 2011-03-04 19:02:03 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|It's really retarded
1774 2011-03-04 19:02:20 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|Especually when I can nslookup chat.freenode.net and get ALL their server IP addresses
1775 2011-03-04 19:02:33 <farzong> snoopatrope
1776 2011-03-04 19:04:56 Lachesis has joined
1777 2011-03-04 19:05:03 <Lachesis> how much power do i need for a single 5870
1778 2011-03-04 19:05:25 <Lachesis> a friend of mine has a box lying around with a cheap 300W psu in it
1779 2011-03-04 19:05:33 <Syke> 300 might be pushing it
1780 2011-03-04 19:05:44 <ArtForz> forget it
1781 2011-03-04 19:05:47 <validus> no way
1782 2011-03-04 19:05:58 <BlueMatt> especially a cheap one
1783 2011-03-04 19:05:59 <Lachesis> Syke, i was considering driving the box from that psu and chaining a secondary 300 i have on my shelf to drive just the gpu
1784 2011-03-04 19:06:05 <validus> the best thing to do is goto ati's site and see their recommended psu
1785 2011-03-04 19:06:15 <validus> wattage that is
1786 2011-03-04 19:06:35 <ArtForz> any all those cheap 300/350W usually have crap +12V amperage
1787 2011-03-04 19:06:48 <Syke> the card itself pulls close to 200w
1788 2011-03-04 19:06:53 <ArtForz> yep
1789 2011-03-04 19:07:02 <Lachesis> so chaining two together wouldn't work?
1790 2011-03-04 19:07:09 <validus> yep i have a cheap 300w psu
1791 2011-03-04 19:07:11 <validus> witwh shitty amperage
1792 2011-03-04 19:07:17 <Syke> chaining would be fine
1793 2011-03-04 19:07:23 <ArtForz> and CPU is also on +12 ..., so is HD and DVD motors ...
1794 2011-03-04 19:07:40 <sethsethseth__> im running 2 5970's on a silverstone 700w and it hasnt broken yet:)
1795 2011-03-04 19:07:42 <Lachesis> ArtForz, would using another cheap 300W PSU solely to power the GPU work?
1796 2011-03-04 19:07:49 <ArtForz> again, bad idea
1797 2011-03-04 19:07:54 <ArtForz> cheap PSUs are group regulated
1798 2011-03-04 19:08:08 <validus> you dont skimp on a psu
1799 2011-03-04 19:08:11 <ArtForz> they *need* load on +5/+3.3 so +12 stays in spec when loaded
1800 2011-03-04 19:08:19 <Lachesis> hrm
1801 2011-03-04 19:08:20 <Lachesis> that's a shame
1802 2011-03-04 19:08:21 <validus> you will hate yourself later and itll cost you 2 - 3x as much money
1803 2011-03-04 19:08:28 <Lachesis> validus, yeah i did that once already
1804 2011-03-04 19:08:38 <farzong> brosup
1805 2011-03-04 19:08:41 <Lachesis> bought some crappy $50 650W for my 2x5870 rig
1806 2011-03-04 19:08:46 <Lachesis> smoked immedately
1807 2011-03-04 19:08:51 <ArtForz> if you want to be cheap, get one of those 300/350W +12-only 5.25" PSUs
1808 2011-03-04 19:08:52 <Syke> if you've already got a 300, i'd try it. worst you can do would blow the ps and you'll have to buy a new one
1809 2011-03-04 19:09:00 <ArtForz> they're fine for a single 5870
1810 2011-03-04 19:09:17 <Lachesis> ArtForz, is it likely that i could repair my blown 650W PSU?
1811 2011-03-04 19:09:26 <ArtForz> probably not worth it
1812 2011-03-04 19:09:27 <Lachesis> what fails when you draw too much current?
1813 2011-03-04 19:09:38 <ArtForz> depends, can be a lot of shit
1814 2011-03-04 19:09:45 <farzong> buy a new one, or lectroctue urself
1815 2011-03-04 19:09:55 <validus> wait till you get a pc fire while sleeping
1816 2011-03-04 19:09:59 <Lachesis> lol
1817 2011-03-04 19:10:17 <validus> dont ghettofy the psu, thats kinda important
1818 2011-03-04 19:10:19 <ArtForz> but usually when shit blows up below rated wattage, it's not worth repairing it
1819 2011-03-04 19:10:24 <farzong> rosting marshmellows over an open pc
1820 2011-03-04 19:10:40 <Diablo-D3> Lachesis: well
1821 2011-03-04 19:10:41 <Diablo-D3> generally
1822 2011-03-04 19:10:42 <Diablo-D3> it blows up
1823 2011-03-04 19:10:51 <Diablo-D3> and takes out half of Rhode Island
1824 2011-03-04 19:10:52 <Lachesis> Diablo-D3, excuse me?
1825 2011-03-04 19:10:53 <validus> can fry all your stuff on top of it catching fire
1826 2011-03-04 19:10:56 <ArtForz> yup
1827 2011-03-04 19:11:06 <Lachesis> alright alright
1828 2011-03-04 19:11:07 <validus> imagine if you werent home
1829 2011-03-04 19:11:09 * Diablo-D3 blows ArtForz up
1830 2011-03-04 19:11:09 <validus> bad bad bad
1831 2011-03-04 19:11:11 <Diablo-D3> mwhahahahahah
1832 2011-03-04 19:11:17 <Lachesis> validus, it's going in a fairly fireproof place
1833 2011-03-04 19:11:23 <Lachesis> middle of a concrete basement
1834 2011-03-04 19:11:25 <ArtForz> though I havent had a PSU blow up shit on +12 in a looong time
1835 2011-03-04 19:11:26 <validus> fairly is not complete
1836 2011-03-04 19:11:33 <Lachesis> validus, yeah yeah
1837 2011-03-04 19:11:43 <validus> well when your crying your shit is fried and you have a house fire
1838 2011-03-04 19:11:47 <validus> you'll change your attitude :P
1839 2011-03-04 19:12:16 <Lachesis> i'll look at my dead 650W to see if i can fix it
1840 2011-03-04 19:12:18 <validus> and i meant that half sarcastic so dont take it to heart but do
1841 2011-03-04 19:12:19 <validus> lol
1842 2011-03-04 19:12:24 <ArtForz> theres a reason I call those $20 PSUs "chinese firecracker" ;)
1843 2011-03-04 19:12:30 <Lachesis> if not, i'll pick up a better one
1844 2011-03-04 19:12:34 <Lachesis> or RMA it for a replacement
1845 2011-03-04 19:13:07 <Lachesis> i wonder if the computer store across from my place sells something worth having for prices i can live with
1846 2011-03-04 19:13:12 <Lachesis> don't feel like doing the FedEx dance again
1847 2011-03-04 19:13:26 <validus> oh everytime you look at a fedex truck stare between the EX
1848 2011-03-04 19:13:32 <validus> it makes an arrow. its subliminal marketing :P
1849 2011-03-04 19:14:29 <Diablo-D3> thats old news
1850 2011-03-04 19:14:40 <Diablo-D3> its also classic brilliance
1851 2011-03-04 19:14:41 <validus> ya but so many ppl dont know it or see it
1852 2011-03-04 19:14:52 <Diablo-D3> how can they not see it? its obvious
1853 2011-03-04 19:14:53 <validus> i didnt learn about it till i was like 23
1854 2011-03-04 19:14:58 <validus> never paid attention
1855 2011-03-04 19:15:06 <Lachesis> validus, i noticed it when i first saw them - didn't realize it was supposed to be hidden
1856 2011-03-04 19:15:08 <validus> i dont really stare at delivery trucks going by
1857 2011-03-04 19:15:24 <validus> and ill agree with diablo it is brilliant
1858 2011-03-04 19:15:27 <ArtForz> btw, Diablo, looks like those SuperFlower 80+ gold PSUs can take a beating
1859 2011-03-04 19:15:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: nice.
1860 2011-03-04 19:15:44 <validus> just like most fast food places are red and yellow cuz the colors supposively make you hungry
1861 2011-03-04 19:15:51 <Lachesis> ArtForz, i got a 750W 80+ Bronze from Corsair once i blew my el-cheapo one
1862 2011-03-04 19:15:52 <validus> everything is an advertisement for something :P
1863 2011-03-04 19:15:54 <Diablo-D3> well, red makes me hungry
1864 2011-03-04 19:15:57 <Diablo-D3> its the color of blood
1865 2011-03-04 19:15:59 <ArtForz> I've got a 850W running with 1kW of dummy loads on +12V
1866 2011-03-04 19:16:03 <Diablo-D3> and I usually eat after dismembering people
1867 2011-03-04 19:16:08 <Diablo-D3> yes, I wash my hands first
1868 2011-03-04 19:16:12 <validus> thank god
1869 2011-03-04 19:16:29 <Diablo-D3> I mean, who knows what Glenn Beck has
1870 2011-03-04 19:16:46 <Diablo-D3> Ive killed him like 4 times, I think they have a cloning facility somewhere
1871 2011-03-04 19:16:54 * Diablo-D3 wears a hazmat suit for that
1872 2011-03-04 19:16:54 <validus> hmm 1tb for 45 bucks
1873 2011-03-04 19:16:56 <ArtForz> ripple still barely in spec, lowish exhaust temps, fan becomes quite audible
1874 2011-03-04 19:17:00 <validus> but seagate.. i wonder if it failed
1875 2011-03-04 19:17:32 x6763_ has joined
1876 2011-03-04 19:17:57 <ArtForz> rule #1 of HDs, *all* manufacturers are crap ;)
1877 2011-03-04 19:18:28 <molecular> yeah, used to check off HD-mafufacturers myself... until I had noone to buy from
1878 2011-03-04 19:18:40 <ArtForz> yup, same
1879 2011-03-04 19:18:59 <farzong> recent trip by a few ICE agents into Northern Mexico that ended with one dead, one injured and one SUV turned to swiss cheese
1880 2011-03-04 19:19:04 <molecular> ArtForz, what 1kW dummy load look like ?
1881 2011-03-04 19:19:31 <molecular> what's a
1882 2011-03-04 19:19:57 <ArtForz> mainly like a whole bunch of H4 bulbs wired to switches
1883 2011-03-04 19:20:14 <ArtForz> and a 400W load tester
1884 2011-03-04 19:23:09 dnm_ is now known as dnm
1885 2011-03-04 19:23:13 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1886 2011-03-04 19:23:17 <ArtForz> some caution is required when using halogen bulbs as load resistors, they have a pretty low resistance when filament is cold
1887 2011-03-04 19:23:55 <validus> artforz when i finally get everything set up the way i want it. im picking your brain
1888 2011-03-04 19:23:56 <validus> hehe
1889 2011-03-04 19:24:31 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1890 2011-03-04 19:24:31 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1891 2011-03-04 19:24:31 Tril has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1892 2011-03-04 19:24:41 Orbixx has joined
1893 2011-03-04 19:24:41 Orbixx has quit (Changing host)
1894 2011-03-04 19:24:42 Orbixx has joined
1895 2011-03-04 19:24:47 <Lachesis> ArtForz, what company do you work for?
1896 2011-03-04 19:24:57 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1897 2011-03-04 19:24:57 15SAAC1T0 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1898 2011-03-04 19:24:57 Guest13416 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1899 2011-03-04 19:24:57 bd__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1900 2011-03-04 19:24:57 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1901 2011-03-04 19:24:58 JStoker has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1902 2011-03-04 19:25:00 <Lachesis> oh my
1903 2011-03-04 19:25:10 <validus> thats g4 classified
1904 2011-03-04 19:25:15 <molecular> ArtForz, I had a short discussion earlier with sipa about code in m0mchills kernel. He's got the //G+=0x1f83d9abU commented out but still uses G<=targetG comparison and targetG is set to 0xffff0000. does that make sense to you?
1905 2011-03-04 19:25:23 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1906 2011-03-04 19:25:23 gwillen has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1907 2011-03-04 19:25:23 Orbixx_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1908 2011-03-04 19:25:32 <ArtForz> ... not really
1909 2011-03-04 19:26:08 bd_ has joined
1910 2011-03-04 19:26:10 <molecular> ;;seen m0mchill
1911 2011-03-04 19:26:15 <molecular> ;seen m0mchill
1912 2011-03-04 19:26:20 <Lachesis> ;;seen m0mchil
1913 2011-03-04 19:26:21 <lfm> molecular: the 0xffff0000 is like a pool target. solo target should be different
1914 2011-03-04 19:26:24 <ArtForz> company designing and building printing/binding machines for one-off digital printing
1915 2011-03-04 19:26:47 <BlueMatt> where is gribble and nanotube?
1916 2011-03-04 19:26:55 <Lachesis> lotta ping timeouts
1917 2011-03-04 19:26:59 <Lachesis> freenode's having problems
1918 2011-03-04 19:27:13 gwillen has joined
1919 2011-03-04 19:27:14 gwillen has quit (Changing host)
1920 2011-03-04 19:27:14 gwillen has joined
1921 2011-03-04 19:27:39 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
1922 2011-03-04 19:27:44 <Lachesis> sorry no gribble
1923 2011-03-04 19:27:44 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1924 2011-03-04 19:27:50 <Lachesis> 111801
1925 2011-03-04 19:27:53 <lfm> ;;bc,block
1926 2011-03-04 19:27:54 TD has joined
1927 2011-03-04 19:27:55 <validus> who needs 6 flags when you got netsplits
1928 2011-03-04 19:27:58 * validus holds his hands up
1929 2011-03-04 19:28:10 <lfm> gribble responded to /msg tho
1930 2011-03-04 19:28:13 <Lachesis> lfm, rly?
1931 2011-03-04 19:28:22 <Lachesis> not to me
1932 2011-03-04 19:28:33 <lfm> oops no it didnt
1933 2011-03-04 19:28:36 <BlueMatt> can I ask why netsplits are so common? Youd think it would be a bit more stable?
1934 2011-03-04 19:28:54 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, it works pretty well
1935 2011-03-04 19:29:03 <Lachesis> freenode has a lot of people on it
1936 2011-03-04 19:29:21 jwalck has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1937 2011-03-04 19:29:59 <BlueMatt> so, why the netsplits 2x/month?
1938 2011-03-04 19:30:04 Daviey- is now known as Daviey
1939 2011-03-04 19:30:04 Daviey has quit (Changing host)
1940 2011-03-04 19:30:04 Daviey has joined
1941 2011-03-04 19:30:18 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, twice a month isn't too bad
1942 2011-03-04 19:30:38 <BlueMatt> I disagree, why should 20 well hosted servers ever split?
1943 2011-03-04 19:30:39 BCBot has joined
1944 2011-03-04 19:31:16 <validus> its just the way of updating servers and leafs tend to work sometimes
1945 2011-03-04 19:31:18 <farzong> nanogoat is coming
1946 2011-03-04 19:31:19 <gwillen> BlueMatt: not to defend freenode, which I think splits way more often than is reasonable, and which I was just cursing out in another channel
1947 2011-03-04 19:31:24 <validus> amongst other things that could be a factor
1948 2011-03-04 19:31:29 <gwillen> BlueMatt: but to be fair, IRC servers attract a lot of attention, including DDoS
1949 2011-03-04 19:31:49 <validus> freenode splits far less than other networks. its actually very stable imo
1950 2011-03-04 19:31:51 <gwillen> which tends to cause issues
1951 2011-03-04 19:31:57 malfy has joined
1952 2011-03-04 19:32:00 <gwillen> I mean, my server has died like 3 times today
1953 2011-03-04 19:32:02 <gwillen> which is pretty bad
1954 2011-03-04 19:32:04 <BlueMatt> I understand that updating a server might take that server down, but its not a netsplit
1955 2011-03-04 19:32:12 <gwillen> I don't know whether it was the same server
1956 2011-03-04 19:32:21 <validus> switch :P
1957 2011-03-04 19:32:24 <validus> i havent split off once
1958 2011-03-04 19:32:39 <validus> if you have to unlink it from the hub or if its on a leaf or various upgrades their doing. getting doss'd etc
1959 2011-03-04 19:32:40 <gwillen> BlueMatt: well, I'm not sure how it displays to the rest of the network when a server goes down
1960 2011-03-04 19:32:42 <BlueMatt> Am I right in thinking, each server connects to each other one?
1961 2011-03-04 19:32:43 <validus> theres so many factors its not funny
1962 2011-03-04 19:32:46 <gwillen> BlueMatt: it may well display as that server splitting off
1963 2011-03-04 19:32:55 <gwillen> BlueMatt: no, there is a spanning tree
1964 2011-03-04 19:33:00 <BlueMatt> ah
1965 2011-03-04 19:33:04 <BlueMatt> well than that would cause netsplits
1966 2011-03-04 19:33:07 <gwillen> yeah
1967 2011-03-04 19:33:18 <gwillen> but even if a single server loses connection or goes down, I believe that still shows as a netsplit
1968 2011-03-04 19:33:23 <BlueMatt> seems like poor design choice to me
1969 2011-03-04 19:33:30 <gwillen> what, spanning tree?
1970 2011-03-04 19:33:34 <validus> anything disconnecting from the hub
1971 2011-03-04 19:33:34 <gwillen> N^2 gets very large, my friend ;-)
1972 2011-03-04 19:33:36 <BlueMatt> simple but it could be better
1973 2011-03-04 19:33:39 <validus> or leaf, whatever you wanna call it really
1974 2011-03-04 19:33:53 <BlueMatt> gwillen: I mean each of the ~15 servers connect in a p2p fashion
1975 2011-03-04 19:33:53 <validus> al the servers are linked to each other. such as eggdrops is the easiest way to look at it and they communicate
1976 2011-03-04 19:33:57 <BlueMatt> I dont think thats unreasonable
1977 2011-03-04 19:34:03 <validus> if they need to reboot it, change hardware, becomes unusable, too much load
1978 2011-03-04 19:34:06 <validus> it may die off and split
1979 2011-03-04 19:34:07 JStoker has joined
1980 2011-03-04 19:34:18 <validus> then its up to the admin to fix the problem and reconnect it
1981 2011-03-04 19:34:24 <validus> then it rejoins
1982 2011-03-04 19:34:32 <validus> thats about the most laymans terms i can get for netsplits
1983 2011-03-04 19:34:53 <BlueMatt> but if the servers (leafs?) connected in a more p2p fashion, netsplits would be almost unheard of
1984 2011-03-04 19:35:03 <BlueMatt> if its a tree, yea netsplits are a problem
1985 2011-03-04 19:35:07 <validus> think of irc.freenode.net as a big middle, and all the lines seperating from it are all servers linked
1986 2011-03-04 19:35:08 tower has joined
1987 2011-03-04 19:35:18 <gwillen> BlueMatt: every time a single server loses its connection to the internet, that's still a netsplit, no matter how the connectivity works
1988 2011-03-04 19:35:21 <validus> as ppl are on various servers
1989 2011-03-04 19:35:24 <gwillen> BlueMatt: and I think that is the dominant case for netsplits now
1990 2011-03-04 19:35:34 <gwillen> I think hubs mostly do not go down
1991 2011-03-04 19:35:37 <gwillen> because they are hidden and cannot be ddosed
1992 2011-03-04 19:35:47 <BlueMatt> gwillen: But do most bots not try to reconnect automatically?
1993 2011-03-04 19:35:50 <validus> loses connection, workloads, updates, upgrades, theres lots and ltos
1994 2011-03-04 19:35:57 <BlueMatt> Because they would then eventually find a host which works
1995 2011-03-04 19:35:59 <gwillen> BlueMatt: what do you mean by bots?
1996 2011-03-04 19:36:03 <BlueMatt> and that is not typically happening
1997 2011-03-04 19:36:05 <BlueMatt> say gribble
1998 2011-03-04 19:36:10 <validus> i dont mean take it literal as a bot that was just an example
1999 2011-03-04 19:36:18 x6763_ has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2000 2011-03-04 19:36:18 <gwillen> BlueMatt: sure, most clients will reconnect to a working host if a server goes down
2001 2011-03-04 19:36:33 <validus> its easier to understand the netsplits as an analogy thats what i meant by bots. if you have multi bots on diff servers and shells
2002 2011-03-04 19:36:33 <BlueMatt> Not from what Ive seen
2003 2011-03-04 19:36:38 <gwillen> BlueMatt: you will still see the split happen first, then people will reappear one by one
2004 2011-03-04 19:36:44 <validus> they talk to each other. but they can split off
2005 2011-03-04 19:36:56 <BlueMatt> validus: I understand why
2006 2011-03-04 19:37:02 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2007 2011-03-04 19:37:04 <validus> and judgin by the wallops of ircops apologizing for it. it doesnt happen all that often
2008 2011-03-04 19:37:11 <validus> cuz most ircops would not bother doing that
2009 2011-03-04 19:37:22 <Lachesis> what are wallops, btw?
2010 2011-03-04 19:37:31 <BlueMatt> Each client connects to a server, the servers are all in a tree passing messages up the tree and back down to get them to all servers and thus to clients
2011 2011-03-04 19:37:32 <Lachesis> msg from op to all?
2012 2011-03-04 19:37:36 <validus> if you /mode nick +w
2013 2011-03-04 19:37:41 ApertureScience has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014 2011-03-04 19:37:41 Sami345_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015 2011-03-04 19:37:43 tower is now known as towerX
2016 2011-03-04 19:37:48 <validus> an ircop can leave msgs for all users on a wallop
2017 2011-03-04 19:37:52 <validus> or a notice per say
2018 2011-03-04 19:37:57 <BlueMatt> The problem is one server goes down, it creates two networks (depending on the server)
2019 2011-03-04 19:38:01 <BlueMatt> which I see as a design flaw
2020 2011-03-04 19:38:06 <validus> its not really a msg as its just that one time and in real time. same as typing /notice nick blah
2021 2011-03-04 19:38:10 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, IRC is an ollld protocol
2022 2011-03-04 19:38:10 <validus> but it shows to everyone that is +w
2023 2011-03-04 19:38:26 <validus> in your status window
2024 2011-03-04 19:38:30 <BlueMatt> Lachesis: yea, but the servers can change how they work w/o effecting the end users
2025 2011-03-04 19:38:33 <Lachesis> ah cool
2026 2011-03-04 19:38:37 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, yeah
2027 2011-03-04 19:38:37 Guest13416 has joined
2028 2011-03-04 19:38:42 <Lachesis> but i'm explaining why it was made a long time ago
2029 2011-03-04 19:38:44 <validus> it may be old but it aint going nowhere
2030 2011-03-04 19:38:45 <BlueMatt> Hence I complain
2031 2011-03-04 19:38:48 Sami345 has joined
2032 2011-03-04 19:38:50 <Lachesis> **why it was poorly set up a long time ago
2033 2011-03-04 19:38:59 <validus> ive used irc for a long long time hehe
2034 2011-03-04 19:39:16 <BlueMatt> validus: never said irc was going anywhere, but the server software could be updated
2035 2011-03-04 19:39:17 <validus> how else do you suggest mutliple servers talk to each other?
2036 2011-03-04 19:39:19 <validus> with users
2037 2011-03-04 19:39:29 <BlueMatt> validus: some form of p2p network
2038 2011-03-04 19:39:33 <validus> if you have to reboot your machine or upgrade. update or something. how is it going to remain online if you need to reboot it
2039 2011-03-04 19:39:34 <BlueMatt> or atleast a tree which fixes itself
2040 2011-03-04 19:39:40 <BlueMatt> ie knows about the 15 other servers
2041 2011-03-04 19:39:45 <BlueMatt> and makes a new tree when one goes down
2042 2011-03-04 19:39:48 <validus> it splits
2043 2011-03-04 19:39:49 slush has joined
2044 2011-03-04 19:39:51 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2045 2011-03-04 19:39:56 Diablo-D3 has joined
2046 2011-03-04 19:40:02 <BlueMatt> validus: Im not talking about one server going down, and people reconnecting
2047 2011-03-04 19:40:03 <validus> it wil fix itself
2048 2011-03-04 19:40:07 <slush> gavinandresen: hello, are you here?
2049 2011-03-04 19:40:09 <BlueMatt> Im talking about a full netsplit ie two networks
2050 2011-03-04 19:40:20 <validus> the servers do come back
2051 2011-03-04 19:40:33 <validus> it just takes it time to reconnect on top of admins working on it to reconnect it to the hub
2052 2011-03-04 19:40:39 <BlueMatt> Im saying the servers should renegotiate a new tree automatically
2053 2011-03-04 19:40:39 <validus> thats why you see it split off
2054 2011-03-04 19:40:42 <Diablo-D3> Grr
2055 2011-03-04 19:40:44 <BlueMatt> ie a netsplit would last 10 secs
2056 2011-03-04 19:40:50 <validus> you can just change servers if you dont want to be on it but its a neccessary evil
2057 2011-03-04 19:40:52 <BlueMatt> and one server would go down
2058 2011-03-04 19:40:54 <slush> gavinandresen: I just found some problem in bitcoind which I cannot explain.
2059 2011-03-04 19:41:00 <validus> some last less
2060 2011-03-04 19:41:02 <validus> some last longer
2061 2011-03-04 19:41:09 <validus> there is tons and tons of factors
2062 2011-03-04 19:41:24 <BlueMatt> validus: Is there a real reason other than the fact that the servers are in a tree (which could be changed)
2063 2011-03-04 19:41:26 <slush> gavinandresen: After many days of running bitcoind instances on the pool, the RPC calls become unresponsive and disk IO went up a little
2064 2011-03-04 19:41:38 <slush> gavinandresen: Restarting bitcoind fixed the issue...
2065 2011-03-04 19:41:50 <validus> not really, itd still have to split
2066 2011-03-04 19:41:54 <BlueMatt> validus: Im really not talking about when a server goes down and thus there is a pseudo split
2067 2011-03-04 19:41:56 <validus> or they could just /akill every user on the server
2068 2011-03-04 19:42:02 <validus> then force you to reconnect to a diff one
2069 2011-03-04 19:42:04 <validus> but itd still split
2070 2011-03-04 19:42:14 <BlueMatt> validus: But if they renegotiate a new tree, splits would last 10 secs, maybe
2071 2011-03-04 19:42:26 <validus> or if they only had 1 server there woudlnt be but thats practically impossible
2072 2011-03-04 19:42:31 <slush> gavinandresen: I don't have any error message or anything, but this is second time when it happen, independently on many instances at the same time
2073 2011-03-04 19:42:35 <validus> ive seen splits last .5 seconds
2074 2011-03-04 19:42:38 <validus> ive seen them last hours
2075 2011-03-04 19:42:43 <slush> gavinandresen: it's probably because I also started them before days at the same time...
2076 2011-03-04 19:42:54 <validus> there is seriously too many factors to even try to list
2077 2011-03-04 19:43:08 FreeMoney has joined
2078 2011-03-04 19:43:16 <Lachesis> validus he's suggesting that the protocol be modified to work around hubs going down
2079 2011-03-04 19:43:16 <BlueMatt> validus: Ok, fine I have to go anyway, I was just suggesting a better solution than to have a tree (which is the root cause of splits)
2080 2011-03-04 19:43:18 <farzong> my friend just rejoined from a netsplit back in 1977
2081 2011-03-04 19:43:19 <gavinandresen> slush:  anything in common at the end of their debug.log files?
2082 2011-03-04 19:43:23 <farzong> hes like holy shit
2083 2011-03-04 19:43:29 JunK-Y_ has joined
2084 2011-03-04 19:43:42 <validus> the only way i see it happening is 1 server or forcing evry user to reconnect to a diff server
2085 2011-03-04 19:43:45 <gavinandresen> slush: (e.g. processing a particular transaction or connecting to a particular node...)
2086 2011-03-04 19:44:05 <validus> but the splits are the most logical, you can always reconnect if you dont want to wait but like i said neccessary evil
2087 2011-03-04 19:44:58 <slush> gavinandresen: all nodes are connected to my central one, so this should not be an issue
2088 2011-03-04 19:45:06 <validus> you cant really take a user and magically move them to a diff server so you can split it
2089 2011-03-04 19:45:07 <slush> gavinandresen: I'll look at malicious transactions, wait a minute
2090 2011-03-04 19:45:32 <slush> gavinandresen: too bad that there are no timestamps :(
2091 2011-03-04 19:45:42 <Lachesis> slush, patch that bitch :)
2092 2011-03-04 19:46:25 <Lachesis> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/addtimestamp.patch
2093 2011-03-04 19:47:22 <slush> Lachesis: I'll wait to next release, jgarzik pulled it to upstream, I hope it will be accepted :)
2094 2011-03-04 19:47:38 <Lachesis> sweet
2095 2011-03-04 19:47:42 <Lachesis> my patch?
2096 2011-03-04 19:47:53 x6763_ has joined
2097 2011-03-04 19:47:54 <slush> no, another one, but solving similar problem
2098 2011-03-04 19:47:57 <Lachesis> ah good
2099 2011-03-04 19:48:01 x6763 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2100 2011-03-04 19:48:14 <Lachesis> i was gonna say - i was afraid i did it wrong
2101 2011-03-04 19:48:28 <jgarzik> Lachesis: github/jgarzik/bitcoin#log-timestamp
2102 2011-03-04 19:49:17 <slush> gavinandresen: no, I don't see anything suspicious in the log
2103 2011-03-04 19:49:33 <slush> gavinandresen: I also checked free memory and it was fine. So no swapping or whatever
2104 2011-03-04 19:49:33 <Lachesis> ah yeah you did it way better than me
2105 2011-03-04 19:49:53 x6763_ is now known as x6763
2106 2011-03-04 19:49:55 <Lachesis>  " %"PRI64d" ", GetTimeMillis()
2107 2011-03-04 19:49:57 <Lachesis> wtf?
2108 2011-03-04 19:50:06 <Lachesis> how can you have quotes like that?
2109 2011-03-04 19:50:07 <gavinandresen> slush:  I was just talking to jgarzik, saying how the intermittent problems with bitcoind are a problem that really bothers me. There is a bug lurking SOMEWHERE.....
2110 2011-03-04 19:50:36 <gavinandresen> Lachesis:  C++ will concatenate string constants for you
2111 2011-03-04 19:50:41 <Lachesis> oh cool
2112 2011-03-04 19:50:44 <Lachesis> didn't know that
2113 2011-03-04 19:50:47 <jgarzik> Lachesis: PRI64d is a string
2114 2011-03-04 19:50:58 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: C too!
2115 2011-03-04 19:51:01 <jgarzik> says the C hacker :)
2116 2011-03-04 19:51:20 <slush> gavinandresen: is there any special "debug mode" which I can turn on?
2117 2011-03-04 19:51:30 ApertureScience has joined
2118 2011-03-04 19:51:33 malfy has joined
2119 2011-03-04 19:51:49 <slush> gavinandresen: I can run one bitcoind with some special debugging, as the trouble started on all nodes almost at the same time
2120 2011-03-04 19:51:50 <Lachesis> is there some reason we can't use c++ functions there? i.e. why fprintf() instead of using fstream?
2121 2011-03-04 19:52:53 <BlueMatt> validus: again I wasnt talking about a server going down...I was talking about when a server goes down to create two networks which any user can connect to one (servers still up) and not be able to talk to the other side.  In any case, this is #bitcoin-dev, not #irc-dev, so I am done discussing
2122 2011-03-04 19:52:53 Mephistopheles has joined
2123 2011-03-04 19:52:54 <gavinandresen> slush:  if you can compile bitcoind -g and then run it under gdb that might be very helpful
2124 2011-03-04 19:53:17 <gavinandresen> ... although with a hang instead of a crash it might not help
2125 2011-03-04 19:53:31 <jgarzik> slush: there are loads of arguments for printing various additional data, hidden throughout bitcoin.  I tried, but failed, to find the wiki page that listed a lot of them.
2126 2011-03-04 19:53:47 <jgarzik> slush: grep for 'Arg'
2127 2011-03-04 19:54:05 <slush> it still worked, but very slowly, I had floods of timeouts on RPC level
2128 2011-03-04 19:54:16 <gavinandresen> egrep 'Get.*Arg' *.cpp *.h
2129 2011-03-04 19:54:16 <gavinandresen> ... gets you a lot of them
2130 2011-03-04 19:54:43 <gavinandresen> slush: and there is a -debug flag (I'd have to look at the code to see what it does)
2131 2011-03-04 19:55:03 <slush> Thanks guys. I just go to report that, but I'm very busy now. I'll try to compile it with additional debugging on Monday.
2132 2011-03-04 19:55:24 <Lachesis> jgarzik, what's in your github#logging branch
2133 2011-03-04 19:55:33 <luke-jr> I have an IPv6 patch.
2134 2011-03-04 19:55:40 <slush> gavinandresen: is there any significant slow down with this debugging enabled?
2135 2011-03-04 19:55:42 <Lachesis> luke-jr, nice
2136 2011-03-04 19:55:44 <jgarzik> Lachesis: buggy stuff you should avoid
2137 2011-03-04 19:55:53 <jgarzik> luke-jr: nice!
2138 2011-03-04 19:55:53 <gavinandresen> slush: I don't know
2139 2011-03-04 19:55:56 <luke-jr> it's not 100% complete, but I think it would work
2140 2011-03-04 19:56:00 <slush> ok, I'll try that
2141 2011-03-04 19:56:04 <Lachesis> luke-jr, on git?
2142 2011-03-04 19:56:09 <Lachesis> github*
2143 2011-03-04 19:56:12 * jgarzik just poked burstnet into adding IPv6 on his VPS
2144 2011-03-04 19:56:14 <luke-jr> Lachesis: I haven't tested it yet
2145 2011-03-04 19:56:20 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: nice, wan to pull request that?
2146 2011-03-04 19:56:23 <luke-jr> Lachesis: no, nothing I do will ever be on github garbage
2147 2011-03-04 19:56:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not until it's tested
2148 2011-03-04 19:56:33 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2149 2011-03-04 19:56:39 gasteve has joined
2150 2011-03-04 19:56:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: link so I can test it?
2151 2011-03-04 19:56:48 RazielZ has quit ()
2152 2011-03-04 19:56:49 <gavinandresen> luke-jr is afraid that he'll upload something illegal and then have to pay to defend github.....
2153 2011-03-04 19:56:49 <luke-jr> I have a pending tx that nobody else will carry, so I need to wait until I generate a block to restart my own
2154 2011-03-04 19:57:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the ToS doesn't require that you do anything illegal
2155 2011-03-04 19:57:13 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: even if someone files a frivilous lawsuit, you have to pay to defend github
2156 2011-03-04 19:57:14 <Lachesis> jgarzik, that's a cheap host
2157 2011-03-04 19:57:16 <Lachesis> they any good?
2158 2011-03-04 19:57:38 <jgarzik> luke-jr: does your IPv6 code behave similarly to IPv4, where bitcoin spreads out connections to ensure you don't connect to a bunch of nodes in the same "network neighborhood"?
2159 2011-03-04 19:58:14 <jgarzik> Lachesis: uptime and support are great, though its occasionally laggy.  and I just exceed the bandwidth quota, doing nothing but bitcoin P2P...
2160 2011-03-04 19:58:18 <gavinandresen> ... and does it use the same connection limits as IPv4?
2161 2011-03-04 19:58:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I'm not sure that part works yet
2162 2011-03-04 19:58:27 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: do you have a repo, or can you ul it somewhere so I can test it? I _really_ want to test/(help)
2163 2011-03-04 19:58:31 <Lachesis> that's a lot of bandwidth from bitcoin, eh?
2164 2011-03-04 19:58:36 <Lachesis> 1TB a month is a lot of bandwidth
2165 2011-03-04 19:58:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I believe my changes modified policies on that
2166 2011-03-04 19:59:03 <luke-jr> pushed to gitorious
2167 2011-03-04 19:59:14 <jgarzik> Lachesis: I'd guess 800GB of that was bitcoin
2168 2011-03-04 19:59:29 <luke-jr> git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin.git IPv6
2169 2011-03-04 19:59:37 <jgarzik> Lachesis: I ran a few other things like blk.bitcoinwatch.com on it, but nothing traffic-significant like bitcoin P2P
2170 2011-03-04 19:59:44 <gavinandresen> I think it's a great idea to support IPv6 as long as denial-of-service or sybil attack via ipV6 won't work because you have ipv4 connections, too (and vice-versa)
2171 2011-03-04 19:59:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that is, some comparisons that just compared IP, now compare the full CAddress (incl port)
2172 2011-03-04 20:00:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the peer diversity should prevent Sybil attacks period
2173 2011-03-04 20:00:28 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  should, but call me a nervous nelly.
2174 2011-03-04 20:00:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: also, you may wish to merge git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin.git myFreeTx
2175 2011-03-04 20:00:47 <jgarzik> the existing IPv4 network diversity measures are sane, and portable to IPv6
2176 2011-03-04 20:00:51 <luke-jr> anyhow, IPv6 branch is, as I said, an early DRAFT
2177 2011-03-04 20:00:58 <luke-jr> I haven't tested it *at all*
2178 2011-03-04 20:01:15 <luke-jr> jgarzik: they should work even better on IPv6 IMO
2179 2011-03-04 20:01:18 <jgarzik> luke-jr: a bunch of us are happy you're working on it, it sounds like :)
2180 2011-03-04 20:01:48 <luke-jr> I suggest the first test be seeing if it ever works with IPv4 peers ;)
2181 2011-03-04 20:01:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: jgarzik Im _very_ happy for on, dlding it right now...
2182 2011-03-04 20:02:10 <luke-jr> it's possible I broke some byte ordering stuff
2183 2011-03-04 20:02:16 <luke-jr> the old code used int32s for IPs -.-
2184 2011-03-04 20:02:19 <gasteve> last night I started working on refactoring the code...to split up main.cpp into wallet, miner, & client (considering doing a native ObjC client for the mac)...just wondering if anyone has already done that
2185 2011-03-04 20:02:27 <luke-jr> new code uses struct sockaddr
2186 2011-03-04 20:02:53 <gasteve> also wonder if anyone has done any work on create unit testing harness and tests
2187 2011-03-04 20:02:58 <luke-jr> gasteve: "client" could refer to almost any component. I suggest Peer/Node, Wallet, Miner, and UI
2188 2011-03-04 20:02:59 <gasteve> *creating
2189 2011-03-04 20:03:12 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2190 2011-03-04 20:03:13 <gasteve> k
2191 2011-03-04 20:03:23 <gasteve> (ui is pretty much already factored out)
2192 2011-03-04 20:03:24 <luke-jr> in this case, did you mean Peer/Node or UI? :P
2193 2011-03-04 20:03:27 <gasteve> as is the RPC stuff
2194 2011-03-04 20:03:37 <gasteve> yes, I meant peer/node
2195 2011-03-04 20:03:39 <luke-jr> ok
2196 2011-03-04 20:03:41 <luke-jr> cool
2197 2011-03-04 20:03:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Not entirely smart, is it? I could fill the network with clients to one ip at a bunch of ports, esp with ipv6 where I have at least an entire /64 to play with
2198 2011-03-04 20:04:03 <luke-jr> gasteve: any idea how to handle policies? ;)
2199 2011-03-04 20:04:05 <BlueMatt> Could I not get you connect to only me?
2200 2011-03-04 20:04:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's something that needs logic to workaround
2201 2011-03-04 20:04:28 <gasteve> policies?
2202 2011-03-04 20:04:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the idea is to have the client try to keep a diverse pool of connections
2203 2011-03-04 20:04:34 <gasteve> what sort of policies?
2204 2011-03-04 20:04:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: The existing code could be changed simply, right?
2205 2011-03-04 20:04:47 <BlueMatt> its not perfect, but it does provide some protection
2206 2011-03-04 20:04:51 <luke-jr> gasteve: for example, waiving all fee requirements for things sent to/from you
2207 2011-03-04 20:04:52 <BlueMatt> at least for outgoing connections
2208 2011-03-04 20:05:26 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: perhaps
2209 2011-03-04 20:05:30 <jgarzik> if we get network diversity right, you won't get a lot of duplicate connections, but there is always the possibility for at least two (IPv4 and IPv6)
2210 2011-03-04 20:05:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: maybe.
2211 2011-03-04 20:05:56 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: 2 isnt able to remotely do an attack, you would need almost 100% of a clients pool
2212 2011-03-04 20:06:03 <luke-jr> you could measure diversity by ping times and/or traceroutes ;)
2213 2011-03-04 20:06:07 <gasteve> hmmm...would need to think on that...could be a million ways to do that...but I think it should be outside the core protocols...something negotiated between users and miners or such
2214 2011-03-04 20:06:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Thanks for working on it, I will be spending some time with it tonight :)
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2216 2011-03-04 20:06:32 <luke-jr> gasteve: currently, the Peer/Node enforces policies for relaying tx
2217 2011-03-04 20:06:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: alot of bandwidth which can be easily changed with random ping waits at the router level
2218 2011-03-04 20:06:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: let me know if it works at all ;)
2219 2011-03-04 20:06:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: will do :)
2220 2011-03-04 20:07:10 <luke-jr> true… so maybe use tracepath to verify diversity
2221 2011-03-04 20:07:13 <luke-jr> if possible
2222 2011-03-04 20:07:32 <gavinandresen> Hey everybody:  I need a few brave souls....
2223 2011-03-04 20:07:35 <ArtForz> eww
2224 2011-03-04 20:07:40 <gavinandresen> ... to help sanity test 0.3.20.2
2225 2011-03-04 20:07:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: what was wrong with 0.3.20.1?
2226 2011-03-04 20:07:53 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: oops, already running it on my production server
2227 2011-03-04 20:07:59 <gavinandresen> Only change is a bump in version numbers, and higher limits for -maxsendbuffer option
2228 2011-03-04 20:08:02 <BlueMatt> gasteve: works fine for me via rpc
2229 2011-03-04 20:08:09 nanotube has joined
2230 2011-03-04 20:08:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: gasteve whoops tab fail
2231 2011-03-04 20:08:24 gribble has joined
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2233 2011-03-04 20:08:31 <gavinandresen> Problem with 0.3.20.1 was new clients connected to new clients could not download the entire block chain (because of spammy blocks around block 50,000)
2234 2011-03-04 20:09:28 <gavinandresen> That's only affected a couple of people so far, but it would get worse as more people adopted 0.3.20.1
2235 2011-03-04 20:09:39 hexidigital has joined
2236 2011-03-04 20:09:50 <gavinandresen> And it won't affect any of you'all because you probably all already HAVE the whole block chain
2237 2011-03-04 20:10:09 hexidigital has joined
2238 2011-03-04 20:10:11 <gavinandresen> (which is why we didn't find it when testing 0.3.20.1 -- who wants to take the time to re-download the block chain???)
2239 2011-03-04 20:10:19 <ArtForz> btw, are we still trying to pull all blocks from the first peer we come across?
2240 2011-03-04 20:10:30 <gavinandresen> ArtForz:  I haven't seen a patch to change that
2241 2011-03-04 20:10:40 <gasteve> so I take it no unit tests have been built?
2242 2011-03-04 20:10:43 <ArtForz> guess thats a yes then ;)
2243 2011-03-04 20:10:53 <gavinandresen> gasteve:  I haven't seen any unit testing patches either....
2244 2011-03-04 20:11:01 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: though I did use your patch and re downloaded the block chain last night as well
2245 2011-03-04 20:11:36 <gasteve> might be a good idea for the future of the world financial system to have a few unit tests  ;)
2246 2011-03-04 20:11:40 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt:  cool, so did I.  I'm confident 0.3.20.2 is OK, it just needs some sanity testing to make sure the builds actually, you know, work.
2247 2011-03-04 20:11:49 <gavinandresen> So:  please download from:   https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/?
2248 2011-03-04 20:11:56 <gavinandresen> (grab the 0.3.20.2 files)
2249 2011-03-04 20:11:58 dazoe has joined
2250 2011-03-04 20:12:07 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: did do, running and stable via rpc afaict
2251 2011-03-04 20:12:11 <BlueMatt> well bitcoind is
2252 2011-03-04 20:15:35 <Aciid> oh my I'm doing a percentage of deepbit
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2261 2011-03-04 20:24:40 <Diablo-D3> hrm
2262 2011-03-04 20:24:46 <Diablo-D3> Im being lazy
2263 2011-03-04 20:25:02 <Diablo-D3> what Content-Type does bitcoind spit out?
2264 2011-03-04 20:25:32 <ArtForz> dongs/dongs
2265 2011-03-04 20:25:58 <[Tycho]> Should be application/json
2266 2011-03-04 20:27:58 <luke-jr> Fact of life: bitcoind sends "Host: localhost" no matter where it's connecting
2267 2011-03-04 20:27:58 <jgarzik> ArtForz: yeah, we still pull blocks like that.  and if that peer doesn't have the full block database, or disappears for some reason, block download is paused for a good long while (30 minutes or more) before resuming
2268 2011-03-04 20:28:05 Raulo_ has joined
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2270 2011-03-04 20:28:14 <Raulo_> slush: What version of bicoind did you have problems with? I had a similar thing with 0.3.19.
2271 2011-03-04 20:28:25 <Raulo_> bicoind works OK on 8333 bitcoin traffic but RPC 8332 stops working after a random (and rather long time)
2272 2011-03-04 20:28:47 <slush> Raulo_: I have some 0.3.19 and majority of 0.3.20
2273 2011-03-04 20:29:00 <Raulo_> After upgrading to git HEAD, I finally have an error message
2274 2011-03-04 20:29:08 TD_ has joined
2275 2011-03-04 20:29:18 <Lachesis> how much bandwidth does bitcoind use on its own?
2276 2011-03-04 20:29:23 <Lachesis> if the port is forwarded
2277 2011-03-04 20:29:29 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2278 2011-03-04 20:29:32 <Raulo_> ThreadRPCServer ReadHTTP timeout
2279 2011-03-04 20:29:51 <slush> Raulo_: yes, it also timeouted for me
2280 2011-03-04 20:30:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Upon just taking a quick look, you dont seem to be using the existing stuff that supports IPv6 (CAddress pretty much already did - ip was big enough, etc)?
2281 2011-03-04 20:31:38 <Raulo_> I have run it only for one day so I'm not sure it is the same problem but with git HEAD (and I believe also with 0.3.20) this problem is not fatal for bicoind
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2288 2011-03-04 20:32:15 <Raulo_> After timeout it gets working again
2289 2011-03-04 20:32:16 oneman_ has joined
2290 2011-03-04 20:32:26 <slush> Raulo_: I typically restarted bitcoind once per two or three days because of some maintenance on the server
2291 2011-03-04 20:32:28 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: from what i know about the original code (not much) there is space left open for ipv6 which you could have more simply used?
2292 2011-03-04 20:32:31 Orbixx has joined
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2295 2011-03-04 20:32:41 <slush> Raulo_: but this was the first time why I didn't touch it for week or so
2296 2011-03-04 20:32:59 <slush> Raulo_: so something overflowed inside, probably :)
2297 2011-03-04 20:33:25 satamusic_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2298 2011-03-04 20:33:38 <Raulo_> slush: I had this problem a week of not restarting but recentlly it took 2-3 days for this bug to appear
2299 2011-03-04 20:33:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: huh? CAddress used an int32 for IP
2300 2011-03-04 20:33:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Oh, uh...ignore my rambling then...
2301 2011-03-04 20:34:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: view the diff? :P
2302 2011-03-04 20:34:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: looking at it now, well w/o the old version...maybe I should just be reading diff
2303 2011-03-04 20:34:37 <TD> the protocol is ipv6 compatible
2304 2011-03-04 20:34:41 <TD> the implementation only knows ipv4
2305 2011-03-04 20:34:46 <Raulo_> slush: is it the bitcoind instance you have your miners connected to?
2306 2011-03-04 20:34:50 <TD> ip addresses are represented as ipv6 on the wire
2307 2011-03-04 20:34:52 <BlueMatt> TD: yea I was very confused
2308 2011-03-04 20:35:03 <slush> Raulo_: yes
2309 2011-03-04 20:35:04 <BlueMatt> TD: Im just a noob on this code
2310 2011-03-04 20:35:09 <Raulo_> slush: I run a modified miner that uses difficulty 1, just like the pool
2311 2011-03-04 20:35:26 <Raulo_> slush: This way there is a lot of getwork traffic
2312 2011-03-04 20:35:51 <Raulo_> Maybe that's why we have it and nobody else (yet)
2313 2011-03-04 20:35:58 <slush> Raulo_: correct, I have ~40 requests per second to one instance right now
2314 2011-03-04 20:36:53 <Raulo_> slush: Well, I have a few per second, too
2315 2011-03-04 20:38:02 <Raulo_> I have no idea how to debug it because it is random
2316 2011-03-04 20:38:17 <luke-jr> TD: he's testing my IPv6 implementation
2317 2011-03-04 20:38:19 <slush> Raulo_: I don't think it is random
2318 2011-03-04 20:38:32 <slush> Raulo_: because many instances crashed at the similar time
2319 2011-03-04 20:38:52 <Raulo_> slush: Ok, I don't have many instances.
2320 2011-03-04 20:39:03 <Raulo_> So for me it is random
2321 2011-03-04 20:39:06 <[Tycho]> Raulo_, what happens when this bug is encountered ?
2322 2011-03-04 20:39:31 <Raulo_> [Tycho]: 8333 traffic works fine but 8332 hangs
2323 2011-03-04 20:39:42 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2325 2011-03-04 20:40:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: btw, wont compile: errors, fixing some now...
2326 2011-03-04 20:40:46 <Raulo_> bitcoind cannot be gracefully shut down then. I have to kill -9
2327 2011-03-04 20:40:51 OVerLoRDI__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2328 2011-03-04 20:41:06 <TD> gavinandresen: i tested with the patch, my implementation can download the chain again :-)
2329 2011-03-04 20:41:08 <TD> thanks
2330 2011-03-04 20:41:29 <[Tycho]> Raulo_, thanks.
2331 2011-03-04 20:41:40 <gavinandresen> TD: thanks for testing, and sorry about the screw-up....
2332 2011-03-04 20:42:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: compiled fine here…
2333 2011-03-04 20:42:20 <luke-jr> what compiler?
2334 2011-03-04 20:42:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: odd, might be my reckless patching of new git clone from a patch off your git...
2335 2011-03-04 20:42:58 <luke-jr> lol
2336 2011-03-04 20:43:29 JunK-Y_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2337 2011-03-04 20:43:35 <midnightmagic> grondilu! LOL bitcoind in bash!
2338 2011-03-04 20:43:37 jnd has joined
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2340 2011-03-04 20:43:51 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2341 2011-03-04 20:44:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: though I am getting a lot of "warning: cannot pass objects of non-POD type ‘struct std::string’ through ‘...’; call will abort at runtime"
2342 2011-03-04 20:44:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I disabled warnings because bitcoind is so full of them <.<
2343 2011-03-04 20:45:03 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: never seen those compiling upstream
2344 2011-03-04 20:45:04 gwillen has joined
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2346 2011-03-04 20:45:05 gwillen has joined
2347 2011-03-04 20:45:05 <bk128> ArtForz: I looked up those bulbs you said you used for your dummy load and found this http://www.piaa.com/Bulbs/Bulbs-H4.html  "Rated at 4000K and providing 110watts of light from only 55watts...."
2348 2011-03-04 20:45:09 <luke-jr> hmm
2349 2011-03-04 20:45:11 JunK-Y has joined
2350 2011-03-04 20:45:20 <[Tycho]> Raulo_, it's not related to socket leaking ?
2351 2011-03-04 20:45:23 <Raulo_> slush: What time did you last have this problem? I had an intermittent problem today at 13:05 UTC (I ran git HEAD version and it just logged ReadHTTP timeout and started working after a minute or two). And yesterday about 10:35 UTC with version 0.3.19 when I had to kill it
2352 2011-03-04 20:45:32 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: specifically they are mostly in CAddress:ToString...
2353 2011-03-04 20:45:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: again, what compiler?
2354 2011-03-04 20:45:47 <Raulo_> [Tycho]: I have no idea. Is it a bitcoin or Linux problem?
2355 2011-03-04 20:45:54 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Ubuntu 10.10: g++ 4.4.4-14
2356 2011-03-04 20:46:29 BurtyB has joined
2357 2011-03-04 20:46:33 <[Tycho]> Raulo_, don't know, i'm not using Linux.
2358 2011-03-04 20:46:38 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh, and the same problems as earlier from your git w/o crazy patches - in ui.cpp ...has no member named 'ip'.  It appears no changes were made to ui.cpp from the original
2359 2011-03-04 20:46:43 <BlueMatt> atleast not on the version I got
2360 2011-03-04 20:46:58 <slush> Raulo_: I don't know exactly, it started sometimes on afternoon UTC
2361 2011-03-04 20:47:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: pushed a fix for that
2362 2011-03-04 20:47:09 <slush> Raulo_: And previously almost two weeks ago
2363 2011-03-04 20:47:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I never managed to build wx. You're on your own there XD
2364 2011-03-04 20:47:26 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah...looking at it now, and I feel stupid
2365 2011-03-04 20:47:28 malfy has joined
2366 2011-03-04 20:47:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: already got wx fine, and can compile mainline
2367 2011-03-04 20:47:45 <slush> [Tycho]: which system do you use?
2368 2011-03-04 20:47:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: never ran into any real problems on that front
2369 2011-03-04 20:47:48 <Raulo_> slush: What block was the most recent at todays problem? You must have it in the log
2370 2011-03-04 20:47:50 <luke-jr> I can't compile wx, nor care to install wx libs.
2371 2011-03-04 20:48:05 <slush> Raulo_: what do you mean, what block?
2372 2011-03-04 20:48:08 <luke-jr> so assume anything broken in wx is broken :p
2373 2011-03-04 20:48:10 <slush> Raulo_: it didn't crash completely
2374 2011-03-04 20:48:18 <farzong> zerbacoat
2375 2011-03-04 20:48:20 <Raulo_> slush: I had height=111517
2376 2011-03-04 20:48:21 <slush> Raulo_: pool was still running, but many timeouts here...
2377 2011-03-04 20:48:33 <[Tycho]> slush, Windows 2000.
2378 2011-03-04 20:48:45 <Raulo_> slush: The block is an approximate timestamp
2379 2011-03-04 20:49:15 <Raulo_> slush: It disn't crash completely for me, too but I started having RPC problems
2380 2011-03-04 20:49:25 <midnightmagic> ;;seen grondilu
2381 2011-03-04 20:49:25 <gribble> grondilu was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 8 hours, 40 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <grondilu> indeed
2382 2011-03-04 20:49:26 <[Tycho]> slush, just kidding. FreeBSD for deepbit.
2383 2011-03-04 20:49:38 <farzong> #winning
2384 2011-03-04 20:49:46 <slush> hehe
2385 2011-03-04 20:49:59 <Mango-chan> is morpheus trustworthy
2386 2011-03-04 20:50:17 <slush> Raulo_: do you think it is related to some event on bitcoin network?
2387 2011-03-04 20:50:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wait, no I dont see any changes to ui.cpp anywhere in your repo
2388 2011-03-04 20:50:30 <slush> Raulo_: it does not look our problems started synchronously
2389 2011-03-04 20:50:31 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: .ip was the int. I removed it.
2390 2011-03-04 20:50:48 <Raulo_> slush: I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out.
2391 2011-03-04 20:50:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: where? I see no such commit on gitorious
2392 2011-03-04 20:50:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's in net.h
2393 2011-03-04 20:51:42 <xelister> MACINTOSH FAGGOTRY
2394 2011-03-04 20:51:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: again, all I see anywhere with ip is a removal and replacement
2395 2011-03-04 20:51:45 <xelister> reaches new lewels
2396 2011-03-04 20:51:45 <slush> Raulo_: I think I experienced first problems in 111794
2397 2011-03-04 20:51:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: exactly.
2398 2011-03-04 20:51:52 <farzong> is there an estimate of how much cpu time is needed to generate 1btc
2399 2011-03-04 20:51:53 <xelister> Mac App Store: "You must be at least 17 years old to download this app."
2400 2011-03-04 20:52:04 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: but ui.cpp still looks for ip
2401 2011-03-04 20:52:04 <luke-jr> farzong: you can't generate 1 BTC, only 50 BTC
2402 2011-03-04 20:52:11 <luke-jr> farzong: and the time, is probably a few decades
2403 2011-03-04 20:52:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: which it cant find, hence the errors
2404 2011-03-04 20:52:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yep
2405 2011-03-04 20:52:25 <xelister> about Opera
2406 2011-03-04 20:52:30 <Raulo_> slush: So it's unrelated.
2407 2011-03-04 20:52:35 <gavinandresen> xelister:  well that's just a LIE!
2408 2011-03-04 20:52:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so, howd you get it to compile then? or just bitcoind
2409 2011-03-04 20:52:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: bitcoind
2410 2011-03-04 20:52:41 <xelister> gavinandresen: well it is from ./
2411 2011-03-04 20:52:46 <farzong> hmm thats a long time
2412 2011-03-04 20:52:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ahh, well Ill look into the ui stuff then
2413 2011-03-04 20:52:52 <luke-jr> farzong: it's a waste of time
2414 2011-03-04 20:53:00 <luke-jr> farzong: got a decent video card?
2415 2011-03-04 20:53:10 <gavinandresen> xelister:  I mean, it is literally a lie-- my 8 year old can download apps.  MUST has a meaning....
2416 2011-03-04 20:53:11 <farzong> yeah
2417 2011-03-04 20:53:40 <xelister> gavinandresen: what apple say is a lie? obviously
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2419 2011-03-04 20:55:06 Keefe_ is now known as Keefe
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2423 2011-03-04 20:58:47 <farzong> a supercomputer could crank out 50btc pretty quiclky
2424 2011-03-04 20:59:15 Guest13416 is now known as daveparrish
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2426 2011-03-04 20:59:20 daveparrish has joined
2427 2011-03-04 21:00:05 <jgarzik> farzong: so could Chuck Norris
2428 2011-03-04 21:00:11 <farzong> haha
2429 2011-03-04 21:01:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: bitcoin server starting
2430 2011-03-04 21:01:57 <BlueMatt> Illegal instruction
2431 2011-03-04 21:02:07 <luke-jr> wtf
2432 2011-03-04 21:02:27 <xelister> BlueMatt: maybe they deligaliced ror instruction in order to buy bitcoin?  oh, americans...
2433 2011-03-04 21:02:32 <xelister> delegalized
2434 2011-03-04 21:02:55 <Diablo-D3> fail
2435 2011-03-04 21:03:06 sabalaba has joined
2436 2011-03-04 21:03:10 <farzong> the fast supercomputer runs at around  2.57 petaflops (~16,000 times faster than a 3.46GHz intel chip)
2437 2011-03-04 21:03:34 <xelister> farzong: and how fast it costs to rent for an hour =)
2438 2011-03-04 21:03:50 <farzong> so if it took 20 years on a commodity chip, the fastest supercomp could do it in 11 hours
2439 2011-03-04 21:04:17 <Diablo-D3> yeah but
2440 2011-03-04 21:04:24 <Diablo-D3> I think the bitcoin cluster is faster than that
2441 2011-03-04 21:04:25 <farzong> xelister: indeed, youd either hack it / use it in idle time when there wasnt other demand.. but actually we dont know the future value of a btc, so it may be worth it for someone to corner the market
2442 2011-03-04 21:05:08 <farzong> is it possible to generate blocks in secret, then unleash them later
2443 2011-03-04 21:05:12 <farzong> the nsa is probably doing it
2444 2011-03-04 21:05:22 <bk128> Diablo-D3: ArtForz said he thought a supercomputer could outhash our network
2445 2011-03-04 21:05:35 <ArtForz> easily
2446 2011-03-04 21:05:44 <Diablo-D3> how many petaflops are we up to now?
2447 2011-03-04 21:05:46 <Mango-chan> http://images.4chan.org/g/src/1299239040021.jpg
2448 2011-03-04 21:05:47 <Mango-chan> so
2449 2011-03-04 21:05:48 <Mango-chan> are you guys ready
2450 2011-03-04 21:05:49 <Mango-chan> for housefires
2451 2011-03-04 21:05:50 <Mango-chan> ?
2452 2011-03-04 21:05:54 <ArtForz> anything in the top5 should do
2453 2011-03-04 21:05:59 <Diablo-D3> wtf is that
2454 2011-03-04 21:06:11 <Diablo-D3> it looks like a 6990
2455 2011-03-04 21:06:16 <Mango-chan> it is one
2456 2011-03-04 21:06:19 <midnightmagic> it's very square.
2457 2011-03-04 21:06:23 <Diablo-D3> its kind of useless
2458 2011-03-04 21:06:25 <farzong> how many cpus is the cluster?
2459 2011-03-04 21:06:28 <Diablo-D3> its slower than a 5970
2460 2011-03-04 21:06:31 <Diablo-D3> farzong: a few thousand
2461 2011-03-04 21:06:38 <Mango-chan> Diablo-D3
2462 2011-03-04 21:06:38 <Diablo-D3> cpus do shit for mining
2463 2011-03-04 21:06:41 <Mango-chan> benchmark links
2464 2011-03-04 21:07:03 <farzong> cool well.. by those back of the envelope calcs 16,000 cpus generate a block in around 5-10 hours
2465 2011-03-04 21:07:27 <ArtForz> ;;bc,stats
2466 2011-03-04 21:07:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111812 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1083 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66051.02362204
2467 2011-03-04 21:07:38 <midnightmagic> crap, 66k.
2468 2011-03-04 21:07:55 <ArtForz> so.. about 475Ghps
2469 2011-03-04 21:08:07 <bk128> ;;bc,gend 1020000 66000
2470 2011-03-04 21:08:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1020000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 66000, is 15.5446204272 BTC per day and 0.647692517801 BTC per hour.
2471 2011-03-04 21:08:19 <ArtForz> one hash = about 4.2kOP
2472 2011-03-04 21:08:31 <farzong> cool
2473 2011-03-04 21:08:44 <farzong> well i dont know how difficult actually it is to generate 1 block(decades? 5 years?)
2474 2011-03-04 21:09:09 <TD> depends on your hardware of course
2475 2011-03-04 21:09:16 <farzong> yeah
2476 2011-03-04 21:09:46 <ArtForz> so... we're doing about 2Pintop/s
2477 2011-03-04 21:09:55 mmarker has joined
2478 2011-03-04 21:10:17 <TD> we live in amazing times
2479 2011-03-04 21:10:22 <TD> that's a lot of calculations by any measure
2480 2011-03-04 21:10:23 <Mango-chan> [12:57:36] <Diablo-D3> its slower than a 5970
2481 2011-03-04 21:10:26 <Mango-chan> [citation needed]
2482 2011-03-04 21:10:39 <Raulo_> We are currently at 500 Gh/s which is roughly 120,000 3.5GHz CPU cores
2483 2011-03-04 21:10:56 <[Tycho]> Why does it have it's fan in the center...
2484 2011-03-04 21:10:59 <ArtForz> sounds about right
2485 2011-03-04 21:11:00 <farzong> whoa thats huge
2486 2011-03-04 21:11:03 <Raulo_> a 3.5 GHz CPU core is about 4MH/s
2487 2011-03-04 21:11:18 <mmarker> Which reminds me, can I bitch at people bitching that my new code is causing their CPUs to overheat?
2488 2011-03-04 21:11:32 <Raulo_> farzong: fear the power of 2000+ GPUs :)
2489 2011-03-04 21:12:13 <molecular> mmarker, you can, because it should
2490 2011-03-04 21:12:20 <midnightmagic> 1.9 Pops..
2491 2011-03-04 21:12:22 <midnightmagic> very nice.
2492 2011-03-04 21:12:41 <xelister> we should put all this power to better use
2493 2011-03-04 21:12:46 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: no citation needed
2494 2011-03-04 21:12:49 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: it uses sdk 2.3
2495 2011-03-04 21:12:50 <xelister> Calculate The Cure For Cancer
2496 2011-03-04 21:12:52 <ArtForz> like what? curing cancer?
2497 2011-03-04 21:12:53 <xelister> and world hunger
2498 2011-03-04 21:12:58 <xelister> ArtForz: duh
2499 2011-03-04 21:13:01 <Raulo_> xelister: Of course: we are heating planet Earth
2500 2011-03-04 21:13:04 <Mango-chan> Diablo-D3 and that matters how
2501 2011-03-04 21:13:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its the "warning: cannot pass objects of non-POD type ‘struct std::string’ through ‘...’; call will abort at runtime" thats killing it...
2502 2011-03-04 21:13:23 <farzong> i should read up on the hash algorithm
2503 2011-03-04 21:13:33 <mmarker> You're keeping my employeers in business
2504 2011-03-04 21:13:34 <magnetron> sha-256
2505 2011-03-04 21:13:37 <mmarker> Crush more hashes!
2506 2011-03-04 21:13:38 <farzong> ahh
2507 2011-03-04 21:13:40 <molecular> a stable, trusted online global currency can cure a lot of stuff
2508 2011-03-04 21:13:41 <xelister> $ ./calculate_solution_to_wars_and_evil_in_world
2509 2011-03-04 21:13:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the first time .ToString() is called (db.cpp:805) it dies
2510 2011-03-04 21:13:42 <xelister> Stop usa war and moralfaggot ways
2511 2011-03-04 21:13:43 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: there goes about 90% of your hash speed
2512 2011-03-04 21:13:44 <xelister> $
2513 2011-03-04 21:13:52 <TD> mmagic: who do you work for? ati?
2514 2011-03-04 21:13:53 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: lolnull
2515 2011-03-04 21:13:53 <Mango-chan> Diablo-D3 you must be using a shitty miner then
2516 2011-03-04 21:13:54 <Mango-chan> Lol.
2517 2011-03-04 21:13:57 devon_hillard has joined
2518 2011-03-04 21:14:00 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: its sdk 2.3
2519 2011-03-04 21:14:01 <Diablo-D3> its fail
2520 2011-03-04 21:14:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: did you re-pull with the fix?
2521 2011-03-04 21:14:02 <midnightmagic> molecular: including problematic legal issues surrounding an assassin's market
2522 2011-03-04 21:14:03 <Diablo-D3> ask ArtForz
2523 2011-03-04 21:14:09 <ArtForz> sdk 2.3 is fail.
2524 2011-03-04 21:14:14 <TD> sorry
2525 2011-03-04 21:14:16 xelister is now known as diablos_sister
2526 2011-03-04 21:14:16 <magnetron> xelister: Proof-of-work found: 42
2527 2011-03-04 21:14:18 <ArtForz> so is 2.2
2528 2011-03-04 21:14:18 <TD> i meant mmarker
2529 2011-03-04 21:14:20 <Mango-chan> 700mh/s here
2530 2011-03-04 21:14:23 <TD> mmarker: ati? nvidia?
2531 2011-03-04 21:14:27 <TD> mmarker: national grid?
2532 2011-03-04 21:14:29 <mmarker> TD: >.> <.<
2533 2011-03-04 21:14:32 <diablos_sister> Diablo-D3: so your miner will be unusable for >64xx that require 2.3 sdk?
2534 2011-03-04 21:14:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, hadnt been watching...my bad
2535 2011-03-04 21:14:46 <Mango-chan> diablos_sister: yes
2536 2011-03-04 21:14:46 <mmarker> *cough* Look for a fat man in Houston.
2537 2011-03-04 21:14:49 <diablos_sister> Mango-chan: that sucks
2538 2011-03-04 21:14:55 <Mango-chan> just wondering
2539 2011-03-04 21:15:00 <Mango-chan> why do people in freenode talk like this
2540 2011-03-04 21:15:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wait what fix
2541 2011-03-04 21:15:01 <mmarker> and by fat, I mean, someone who looks like Jabba the Hutt
2542 2011-03-04 21:15:06 <Mango-chan> why do they nick alert
2543 2011-03-04 21:15:07 <Mango-chan> every
2544 2011-03-04 21:15:08 <Mango-chan> single
2545 2011-03-04 21:15:08 <Mango-chan> line
2546 2011-03-04 21:15:13 <magnetron> mmarker: harder to find a FIT man in Houston
2547 2011-03-04 21:15:21 <mmarker> magnetron: Truth.
2548 2011-03-04 21:15:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: on gitorious there is only the initial commit, no fix?
2549 2011-03-04 21:15:40 <ArtForz> Mango-chan: because.
2550 2011-03-04 21:15:43 <molecular> I accidentally installed and used sdk 2.3 today (emerge update --neuse world) -> sdk 2.3 _is_ fail
2551 2011-03-04 21:15:47 <Diablo-D3> well
2552 2011-03-04 21:15:49 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan
2553 2011-03-04 21:15:50 <molecular> for our purposes at least
2554 2011-03-04 21:15:50 <diablos_sister> ArtForz: btw you said afair that sdk 2.3 does not work well. but here Mango-chan is getting good results on windows7 and radeon 6950 afair
2555 2011-03-04 21:15:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I amended it
2556 2011-03-04 21:15:52 <Diablo-D3> enter
2557 2011-03-04 21:15:52 <Diablo-D3> is
2558 2011-03-04 21:15:52 <mmarker> TD: But yes, in the petrol industry :D
2559 2011-03-04 21:15:53 <Diablo-D3> the
2560 2011-03-04 21:15:53 <Diablo-D3> new
2561 2011-03-04 21:15:55 <Diablo-D3> black
2562 2011-03-04 21:15:55 <diablos_sister> magnetron: what is your radeon?
2563 2011-03-04 21:15:55 <Diablo-D3> so
2564 2011-03-04 21:15:57 <TD> hah
2565 2011-03-04 21:15:57 <Diablo-D3> feh
2566 2011-03-04 21:16:08 <magnetron> diablos_sister: wut
2567 2011-03-04 21:16:23 <diablos_sister> ait
2568 2011-03-04 21:16:29 <diablos_sister> Mango-chan:  what is your radeon?
2569 2011-03-04 21:16:38 <Mango-chan> 6950
2570 2011-03-04 21:16:43 <diablos_sister> yeah
2571 2011-03-04 21:16:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why on earth would you amend a commit already commited?
2572 2011-03-04 21:16:52 <Mango-chan> (note: i did not buy it just for mining)
2573 2011-03-04 21:16:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: that just causes problems
2574 2011-03-04 21:16:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I said it was JUST A DRAFT
2575 2011-03-04 21:17:03 <ArtForz> 700Mh/s on dual 6950? I call BS.
2576 2011-03-04 21:17:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you cant make a new commit to fix?
2577 2011-03-04 21:17:20 <mmarker> Since Art is here. Raulo commented the SSE2 assembly code just blows on an Athlon K10, but not on Intel...is there some difference in the K10 architecture I should know about?
2578 2011-03-04 21:17:23 <farzong> someone will need to create a dedicated sha256 chip
2579 2011-03-04 21:17:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: more pain when I want to make it permanent
2580 2011-03-04 21:17:35 <diablos_sister> ArtForz: well ha showed screenshots. you think Mango-chan's screens are fake?
2581 2011-03-04 21:17:46 <molecular> sdk 2.3 vs 2.1: first gpu1 300Mh/s vs. 335Mh/s, gpu2: 120Kh/s vs 335Mh/s
2582 2011-03-04 21:17:50 <luke-jr> farzong: ArtForz already did
2583 2011-03-04 21:17:53 <ArtForz> possible with OCed 6970s, with stock 6950s, no way
2584 2011-03-04 21:17:58 <farzong> luke-jr: cool
2585 2011-03-04 21:18:20 <Mango-chan> molecular: what?
2586 2011-03-04 21:18:48 <molecular> dunno what happened with the 2nd gpu when I accidentally installed sdk2.3... didn't investigate
2587 2011-03-04 21:18:56 <molecular> but hashrate dropped on 1st one too
2588 2011-03-04 21:19:08 <Mango-chan> working fine here
2589 2011-03-04 21:19:12 <ArtForz> yep, thats what 2.3 usually does
2590 2011-03-04 21:19:23 <molecular> it's the compiler, I assume
2591 2011-03-04 21:19:40 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure it's the runtime
2592 2011-03-04 21:19:52 <luke-jr> maybe 2.3 works better for the 69xx
2593 2011-03-04 21:20:01 <molecular> ArtForz, did that 200Mh/s at 8Watt fpr ypir ASICs still hold true?
2594 2011-03-04 21:20:09 <ArtForz> 7 watt now
2595 2011-03-04 21:20:13 <molecular> cool
2596 2011-03-04 21:20:18 <Mango-chan> fuck
2597 2011-03-04 21:20:34 <mmarker> ArtForz: Not bad.
2598 2011-03-04 21:21:00 <farzong> it could be possible to compute sha256 as the result of radio wave interference
2599 2011-03-04 21:21:20 <Diablo-D3> what.
2600 2011-03-04 21:21:53 <farzong> non-linear interference as computation
2601 2011-03-04 21:21:56 <molecular> that's about 15 times better than 9570... not bad? hehe
2602 2011-03-04 21:22:00 <molecular> 5970
2603 2011-03-04 21:22:04 <ArtForz> could lower it a bit more by using more efficient DC-DCs
2604 2011-03-04 21:22:49 <molecular> farzong, that's seriously mind-bending. can you factor an integer using that method?
2605 2011-03-04 21:23:17 <ArtForz> currently using cheap 60A units that are only ~87% efficient
2606 2011-03-04 21:23:28 <farzong> molecular: it could be possible potentially
2607 2011-03-04 21:23:30 <farzong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_electromagnetics
2608 2011-03-04 21:23:49 <farzong> our best algorithms are exponentially slower than nature itself at computing fields
2609 2011-03-04 21:23:52 <phantomcircuit_> ARGH
2610 2011-03-04 21:23:54 <phantomcircuit_> STUPID INTEL
2611 2011-03-04 21:24:11 <diablos_sister> ArtForz: so I wonder, after all.. is it possible to mine well on 6xxx
2612 2011-03-04 21:24:15 <phantomcircuit_> everytime something tries to use xrandr the driver panics and gets restarted
2613 2011-03-04 21:24:20 <diablos_sister> ArtForz: or, perhaps it is possible but only on windows
2614 2011-03-04 21:24:21 <ArtForz> yes
2615 2011-03-04 21:24:25 <ArtForz> it is possible
2616 2011-03-04 21:24:26 <mmarker> Oh, intel video hardware.
2617 2011-03-04 21:24:33 <ArtForz> I'm doing it right now
2618 2011-03-04 21:24:37 <farzong> someone would need to find a mathematical link between maxwells partial differential equations and some other re-usable unit of computation..
2619 2011-03-04 21:24:55 <molecular> farzong, just because something is exponentially hard to calc, doesn't necessarily mean you can use it for doing computation... but that's the idea?
2620 2011-03-04 21:25:07 jwalck has joined
2621 2011-03-04 21:25:49 <farzong> molecular: yeah.. i mean, theres parallelism inherent in natures solution
2622 2011-03-04 21:25:57 <Syke> 6xxx isn't bad for mining, it's just not optimal
2623 2011-03-04 21:26:10 diablos_sister is now known as diablos_bro
2624 2011-03-04 21:26:13 <farzong> for instance.. electricity has an affinity for the shortest path. it can instantly find the shortest route (computer algorithms are polynomial)
2625 2011-03-04 21:26:31 <ArtForz> no it doesnt
2626 2011-03-04 21:26:43 diablos_bro is now known as xelister
2627 2011-03-04 21:26:54 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2628 2011-03-04 21:27:21 <farzong> you can identify the shortest path by observing a current
2629 2011-03-04 21:28:20 <ArtForz> no, you can only by observing current over a large area
2630 2011-03-04 21:29:02 <farzong> you measure resistance at the terminal points O(n)
2631 2011-03-04 21:29:15 <farzong> theres your solution. while the best path-finding algorithms are polynomial
2632 2011-03-04 21:29:15 <xelister> Diablo-D3: does your miner work well with 6xxx cards on windows?
2633 2011-03-04 21:29:24 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yeah works fine, you're just stuck with 2.3
2634 2011-03-04 21:29:30 <xelister> wait, in windows, do you install Ati Stream SDK as well as you do on linux?
2635 2011-03-04 21:29:38 <Diablo-D3> xelister: "no"
2636 2011-03-04 21:29:46 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you get the catalyst install with stream already in it
2637 2011-03-04 21:29:54 <xelister> so, on "
2638 2011-03-04 21:30:11 <xelister> so, on normally installed 6xxx in windows, all should just work (well jsut need to get java JRE)?
2639 2011-03-04 21:30:12 <Diablo-D3> you dont install 2.3 seperately with, say, 11.1 and 11.2
2640 2011-03-04 21:30:12 <molecular> layman's question: if you take a rectangular plate of metal and connect one side vs. one point on the opposite side to a voltage, how does the current travel through the plate?
2641 2011-03-04 21:30:23 <Diablo-D3> xelister: if the drivers were installed with stream, yes
2642 2011-03-04 21:30:27 <farzong> gravity, electromagnetism are computations that nature does instantaneously (but our best approaches are intractable on traditional computers)
2643 2011-03-04 21:30:30 hexidigital has left ()
2644 2011-03-04 21:30:31 <mmarker> molecualr: in a vacuum?
2645 2011-03-04 21:30:33 <Diablo-D3> xelister: afiak they still ship versions of cat without the runtime
2646 2011-03-04 21:30:39 <ArtForz> err... how the fuck does the resistance of a arbitrary 2-terminal network have anything to do with shortest path?
2647 2011-03-04 21:30:55 <molecular> mmarker, does it matter?
2648 2011-03-04 21:30:57 <Diablo-D3> xelister: or its an installer option, I cant figure out which without running it myself
2649 2011-03-04 21:31:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: bitcoin server starting
2650 2011-03-04 21:31:01 <BlueMatt> Illegal instruction
2651 2011-03-04 21:31:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr:  double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x00000000009ec220
2652 2011-03-04 21:31:14 <mmarker> molecular: Think "damp air"
2653 2011-03-04 21:31:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ignore the first one
2654 2011-03-04 21:31:24 paz has joined
2655 2011-03-04 21:31:26 <molecular> mmarker, yes, in vacuum
2656 2011-03-04 21:31:30 <xelister> farzong: gravitation waves expand with speed of life, no?
2657 2011-03-04 21:31:31 <farzong> ArtForz: 2-terminal? you'd have a grid that represents a graph instance
2658 2011-03-04 21:31:40 <molecular> "speed of life", lol
2659 2011-03-04 21:31:49 <xelister> erm. light,... :>
2660 2011-03-04 21:31:53 <farzong> xelister: yeah, theorietically
2661 2011-03-04 21:31:53 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck is this, macross?
2662 2011-03-04 21:31:59 <Diablo-D3> LISTEN TO MY SONG!!!!!!!!!!!!
2663 2011-03-04 21:32:02 <Diablo-D3> or something
2664 2011-03-04 21:32:09 <ArtForz> wtf?
2665 2011-03-04 21:32:23 <xelister> they say the same thing on Ati meetings
2666 2011-03-04 21:32:24 <xelister> s/S/D
2667 2011-03-04 21:32:28 <molecular> Diablo-D3 is on something today, I think
2668 2011-03-04 21:32:30 <xelister> 2nd one
2669 2011-03-04 21:34:02 <farzong> of course quantum entanglement is alreadyhandily reducable to bits, unlike laws of gravity or EM waves
2670 2011-03-04 21:34:26 <prax_> what is a good program to explore SQLite db's?
2671 2011-03-04 21:34:32 <Diablo-D3> prax_: sqlite
2672 2011-03-04 21:34:38 <prax_> lol k..
2673 2011-03-04 21:34:38 <ArtForz> *tish*
2674 2011-03-04 21:34:45 <farzong> sqlitebrowser
2675 2011-03-04 21:35:01 <Diablo-D3> its a cli command that does the interactive query shit
2676 2011-03-04 21:35:03 <prax_> freakign favicon wont refresh in firefox
2677 2011-03-04 21:35:13 <prax_> know I am going to need to use SQLite more in future tho
2678 2011-03-04 21:35:16 <prax_> ty
2679 2011-03-04 21:35:17 <Diablo-D3> prax_: press shift-refresh
2680 2011-03-04 21:35:26 <prax_> nah it doesnt refresh favicon always
2681 2011-03-04 21:35:32 <prax_> suggested to mod sqlite db
2682 2011-03-04 21:36:21 <Diablo-D3> what about mods?
2683 2011-03-04 21:36:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: any ideas?
2684 2011-03-04 21:36:45 <Diablo-D3> this channel is for English speakers only >_>
2685 2011-03-04 21:36:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea 1 sec
2686 2011-03-04 21:36:49 <farzong> double hash interesting.. like a double rainbow
2687 2011-03-04 21:36:57 <Diablo-D3> WHAT DOES IT MEEEAAANNNN
2688 2011-03-04 21:37:13 <BlueMatt> In function ‘void* memset(void*, int, size_t)’,
2689 2011-03-04 21:37:13 <BlueMatt>     inlined from ‘sockaddr* CAddress::GetSockAddr() const’ at net.h:311,
2690 2011-03-04 21:37:13 <BlueMatt>     inlined from ‘bool ConnectSocket(const CAddress&, SOCKET&)’ at net.cpp:75:
2691 2011-03-04 21:37:13 <BlueMatt> /usr/include/bits/string3.h:86: warning: call to void* __builtin___memset_chk(void*, int, long unsigned int, long unsigned int) will always overflow destination buffer
2692 2011-03-04 21:37:26 <BlueMatt> In function ‘void* memset(void*, int, size_t)’,
2693 2011-03-04 21:37:26 <BlueMatt>     inlined from ‘sockaddr* CAddress::GetSockAddr() const’ at net.h:311,
2694 2011-03-04 21:37:26 <BlueMatt>     inlined from ‘bool ConnectSocket(const CAddress&, SOCKET&)’ at net.cpp:75:
2695 2011-03-04 21:37:27 <BlueMatt> /usr/include/bits/string3.h:86: warning: call to void* __builtin___memset_chk(void*, int, long unsigned int, long unsigned int) will always overflow destination buffer
2696 2011-03-04 21:37:47 <BlueMatt> ======= Backtrace: =========
2697 2011-03-04 21:37:47 <BlueMatt> /lib/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x37)[0x7f289f769537]
2698 2011-03-04 21:37:47 <BlueMatt> /lib/libc.so.6(+0xfe3f0)[0x7f289f7683f0]
2699 2011-03-04 21:37:47 <BlueMatt> ./bitcoind[0x43e1db]
2700 2011-03-04 21:37:49 <BlueMatt> ./bitcoind[0x448d5c]
2701 2011-03-04 21:37:51 <BlueMatt> ./bitcoind[0x44980b]
2702 2011-03-04 21:37:53 <BlueMatt> /lib/libpthread.so.0(+0x7971)[0x7f289f454971]
2703 2011-03-04 21:37:55 <BlueMatt> /lib/libc.so.6(clone+0x6d)[0x7f289f75092d]
2704 2011-03-04 21:38:51 <mmarker> molecular: Ugh, don't know. But I think Gauss's law would be the right path to a solution
2705 2011-03-04 21:39:00 <phantomcircuit_> BlueMatt, plz2notdothat
2706 2011-03-04 21:39:17 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit_: sorry fail in irc client
2707 2011-03-04 21:39:25 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit_: meant to /msg that one
2708 2011-03-04 21:39:41 akem_ is now known as akem
2709 2011-03-04 21:40:24 <phantomcircuit_> BlueMatt, would appear to be a memory leak that's being detected
2710 2011-03-04 21:40:25 <phantomcircuit_> yay?
2711 2011-03-04 21:40:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try pastebin :P
2712 2011-03-04 21:40:31 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try removing the & from that line
2713 2011-03-04 21:40:43 <luke-jr> also same in line 320
2714 2011-03-04 21:41:08 <mmarker> actually, reads mote like a buffer overflow error, no?
2715 2011-03-04 21:41:27 <farzong> what happens if the network is dos'ed with invalid transactions
2716 2011-03-04 21:41:28 <phantomcircuit_> mmarker, reads that way
2717 2011-03-04 21:41:39 <phantomcircuit_> farzong, they get rejected
2718 2011-03-04 21:41:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: pastebin works, but /msg works just as well
2719 2011-03-04 21:41:47 <phantomcircuit_> because they're invalid
2720 2011-03-04 21:41:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, it doesn't.
2721 2011-03-04 21:41:55 <luke-jr> it floods me
2722 2011-03-04 21:42:41 <farzong> phantomcircuit_: how bout this hack - the network is dos'd with bogus tx's. while everyone is deluged and spinning cycles on evaluating the flood of bad blocks, a secret cluster knows they are bad and ignores them, and instead creates legitimate blocks
2723 2011-03-04 21:43:05 <farzong> so while everyone is working on a flood of bogus data, the evil cluster is creating genuine coins
2724 2011-03-04 21:43:14 mortalis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2725 2011-03-04 21:43:24 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, if you use a cli irc client, otherwise you just get a new window which you can close and look at later
2726 2011-03-04 21:43:55 <farzong> now the evil cluster has no competition, and is the only one gaining new currency
2727 2011-03-04 21:43:58 <Syke> farzong, validating blocks is much faster than network speed.
2728 2011-03-04 21:44:09 <phantomcircuit_> what syke said
2729 2011-03-04 21:44:20 <Syke> might as well just send garbage
2730 2011-03-04 21:44:35 <mmarker> Ok, time to blow this taco stand
2731 2011-03-04 21:44:38 mmarker has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
2732 2011-03-04 21:45:42 <farzong> Syke: youd only need a small advantage in time to become the winner
2733 2011-03-04 21:47:02 <Syke> true, dosing the whole network is a valid concern
2734 2011-03-04 21:48:30 <farzong> they are doing this in HFT, spamming the bid/ask boards with millions of fake offers to eat up the oponents cpu
2735 2011-03-04 21:48:59 <farzong> its like corewars
2736 2011-03-04 21:51:35 <gavinandresen> farzong:  much of the hashing power is nodes not directly connected (e.g. mining pools), and they won't be affected by transaction flooding/spamming/etc.
2737 2011-03-04 21:52:33 <farzong> if you send out a billion fake transactions, but you know you can discard them, you now have a few million clock cycles advantage.. which is all you need right
2738 2011-03-04 21:52:53 <farzong> i c
2739 2011-03-04 21:53:15 <gavinandresen> farzong:  you will get disconnected if you flood to fast (there are receive and send buffer limits as of lastest release)
2740 2011-03-04 21:53:35 <luke-jr> [16:32:07] <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try removing the & from that line
2741 2011-03-04 21:53:37 <farzong> yeah makes sense
2742 2011-03-04 21:54:24 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: already did that, different error
2743 2011-03-04 21:54:29 <luke-jr> o
2744 2011-03-04 21:54:31 <luke-jr> pastebin it
2745 2011-03-04 21:54:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: which appeared once before, but the buffer overrun was most common
2746 2011-03-04 21:55:11 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt:  that's a patch, not stock bitcoin, complaining about memset, right?
2747 2011-03-04 21:55:17 <farzong> yeah i need to read up on the algorithm.. google is giving me vague descriptions
2748 2011-03-04 21:55:30 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yea, meant to /msg that...
2749 2011-03-04 21:55:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that's IPv6
2750 2011-03-04 21:55:39 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: but yes its luke-jr's ipv6
2751 2011-03-04 21:55:41 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt:  just wanted to make sure
2752 2011-03-04 21:56:13 <BlueMatt> luke-jr:
2753 2011-03-04 21:56:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: http://pastie.org/1634113
2754 2011-03-04 21:56:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: backtrace in gdb?
2755 2011-03-04 21:57:17 kermit has joined
2756 2011-03-04 21:57:21 <farzong> prediciton: a trojan that infects users computers and generates bitcoins with their idle cpu, sending them back to the mothership occasionally
2757 2011-03-04 21:57:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not sure why, but Im not getting one
2758 2011-03-04 21:57:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: probably my noobishness
2759 2011-03-04 21:57:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: valgrind?
2760 2011-03-04 21:57:52 <ArtForz> farzong: *yawn*
2761 2011-03-04 21:58:18 <farzong> ArtForz: you think its unlikely?
2762 2011-03-04 21:58:38 <ArtForz> lol
2763 2011-03-04 21:59:12 <farzong> ArtForz: actually doesnt have to be a trojan.. it could be embedded in farmville or the next viral whatever :)
2764 2011-03-04 21:59:25 <ArtForz> hey, feel free to come up with stuff that already happened.
2765 2011-03-04 21:59:40 <farzong> theres a bitcoin trojan?
2766 2011-03-04 21:59:52 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2767 2011-03-04 22:00:05 <ArtForz> a botnet or two
2768 2011-03-04 22:00:11 <farzong> i c
2769 2011-03-04 22:00:31 <ArtForz> at least 2 that I know of, probably quite a few more
2770 2011-03-04 22:01:04 theymos has joined
2771 2011-03-04 22:01:15 <nathan7> nameless|: hrm?
2772 2011-03-04 22:02:00 <theymos> Is the message checksum over everything after the checksum concatenated with the 4-byte length field (in that order)?
2773 2011-03-04 22:02:08 BlueMatt has joined
2774 2011-03-04 22:02:13 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2775 2011-03-04 22:02:13 BlueMatt has joined
2776 2011-03-04 22:02:51 brunner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2777 2011-03-04 22:03:04 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2778 2011-03-04 22:04:32 <farzong> the solution is obvious
2779 2011-03-04 22:04:48 <farzong> send a pentium into a blackhole and then retrieve it at some point in the future
2780 2011-03-04 22:04:54 <farzong> you will have all the bitcoins you desire
2781 2011-03-04 22:05:24 <farzong> or just have it travel around at the speed of light for a bit
2782 2011-03-04 22:06:15 brunner has joined
2783 2011-03-04 22:07:48 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: http://pastie.org/1634151
2784 2011-03-04 22:08:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: sorry, had to REISUB for another reason :(
2785 2011-03-04 22:09:38 <farzong> interesting.. if im reading this correctly youd want to randomly try different nonces rather than increment sequentially or any other technique someone else might be using
2786 2011-03-04 22:09:55 <ArtForz> read more, you're wrong
2787 2011-03-04 22:10:03 <farzong> to lessen the probability that youre searching the same keyspace as someone else
2788 2011-03-04 22:10:29 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2789 2011-03-04 22:10:44 <theymos> Your set of blocks is unique because your blocks contain your unique public key.
2790 2011-03-04 22:11:03 <slush> ;;bc,poolstats
2791 2011-03-04 22:11:03 <farzong> ArtForz: im saying what if you try nonce += 2 rather than +=1
2792 2011-03-04 22:11:03 <gribble> {"ghashes_ps": "100.893", "shares": 48932, "active_workers": 901, "round_duration": "0:37:38", "score": "10796.1532", "round_started": "2011-03-04 21:24:42", "shares_cdf": "58.53", "getwork_ps": 555}
2793 2011-03-04 22:11:14 <slush> firstly over real 100ghash
2794 2011-03-04 22:11:18 <ArtForz> *does* *not* *matter*
2795 2011-03-04 22:12:08 <ArtForz> count in reverse order or use a gray counter, still does not matter
2796 2011-03-04 22:13:46 <farzong> just saying, if your search strategy is identical to many others in the network, you have 0 probability of winning (thers going to be a faster miner).. but if your search is randomized, your probability of winning is proportional to your weighted cpu
2797 2011-03-04 22:14:08 <slush> farzong: but your search IS randomized
2798 2011-03-04 22:14:13 <ArtForz> read what theymos wrote, think
2799 2011-03-04 22:14:23 <slush> farzong: because you have random hash inside each job
2800 2011-03-04 22:14:25 <theymos> farzong: Clearly the facts disagree with you...
2801 2011-03-04 22:14:31 <ArtForz> everyone works on a *different* block
2802 2011-03-04 22:14:47 <farzong> oh i c
2803 2011-03-04 22:15:16 <slush> farzong: the main point is that there is huge space of valid solutions. It is NOT like all computers is searching one specific solution
2804 2011-03-04 22:15:17 <farzong> ermm but th eblock doesnt contain a private key.. so someone else could in theory be using the same block?
2805 2011-03-04 22:15:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try pulling a new fix
2806 2011-03-04 22:15:48 <ArtForz> wonder why everyone thinks everyone else is stupid and they're the first to come up with crap like this...
2807 2011-03-04 22:15:48 <farzong> indeed slush i c
2808 2011-03-04 22:15:59 * ArtForz is off to bed
2809 2011-03-04 22:16:04 <slush> hehe
2810 2011-03-04 22:17:01 <farzong> anyway im reading the paper and it says "all transactions broadcast" etc.. theres no talk of individual miners having their own keys
2811 2011-03-04 22:17:24 <jrabbit> [Tycho]: ping, you should make an API/json data source.. it'd be nice to have
2812 2011-03-04 22:17:45 <theymos> farzong: The coin generation is a transaction that sends to a unique key.
2813 2011-03-04 22:17:45 <[Tycho]> I haz it.
2814 2011-03-04 22:18:01 <farzong> ahh hmm
2815 2011-03-04 22:18:05 <x6763> farzong: when you work on a block, the first transaction in your block is the coingeneration transaction that sends new coins to your own address (making it unique from others)...this transaction affects the merkle root, which then affects the hash of the block header
2816 2011-03-04 22:18:07 <jrabbit> oh how do I query it?
2817 2011-03-04 22:18:24 <farzong> i c i c
2818 2011-03-04 22:18:40 <jrabbit> [Tycho]: HINT THIS SHOULD BE ON THE WEBPAGE :P
2819 2011-03-04 22:18:41 EvanR_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2820 2011-03-04 22:18:58 <[Tycho]> jrabbit, who would be interested in that ?
2821 2011-03-04 22:19:08 * jrabbit 
2822 2011-03-04 22:19:16 <jrabbit> I woudl want to know my current balance.
2823 2011-03-04 22:19:28 <[Tycho]> Oh, THAT.
2824 2011-03-04 22:19:29 <jrabbit> and or reported khash values from various workers and percents
2825 2011-03-04 22:19:31 EvanR has joined
2826 2011-03-04 22:19:33 <jrabbit> lol
2827 2011-03-04 22:19:34 <jrabbit> :P
2828 2011-03-04 22:19:42 <jrabbit> yeah deepbit sorry
2829 2011-03-04 22:21:08 <xelister> http://www.starwars.com/movies/episode-i/3dannouncedate/index.html
2830 2011-03-04 22:21:11 <xelister> world is full of idiots
2831 2011-03-04 22:21:26 <xelister> this above linked morons actually do like Star Wars episodes I,II,III
2832 2011-03-04 22:21:29 <farzong> The proof-of-work involves scanning for a value that when hashed, such as with SHA-256, the
2833 2011-03-04 22:21:32 <farzong> hash begins with a number of zero bits.
2834 2011-03-04 22:23:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: http://pastie.org/1634212
2835 2011-03-04 22:23:25 <farzong> so all the "Prev Hash" strings are prefixed with a bunch of zero-bits
2836 2011-03-04 22:23:48 <farzong> how do we know how many 0-bits is the target
2837 2011-03-04 22:23:53 <Diablo-D3> farzong: difficulty.
2838 2011-03-04 22:23:57 <farzong> ahh
2839 2011-03-04 22:24:02 <x6763> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
2840 2011-03-04 22:24:25 <Diablo-D3> difficulty of 1 == 32 bits of 0.
2841 2011-03-04 22:24:36 <farzong> i c
2842 2011-03-04 22:24:48 <Diablo-D3> difficulty 50k .... we're in the upper 40s? lower 50s?
2843 2011-03-04 22:28:11 <theymos> Does the message checksum cover the message length at all? Someone said that on here, but I don't see that.
2844 2011-03-04 22:28:29 <Diablo-D3> theymos: what checksum?
2845 2011-03-04 22:29:02 <theymos> The Bitcoin network message checksum.
2846 2011-03-04 22:29:05 <Diablo-D3> you mean the header hash?
2847 2011-03-04 22:29:09 <x6763> the checksum is just for the payload
2848 2011-03-04 22:29:22 <theymos> I see. Thanks.
2849 2011-03-04 22:29:26 <Diablo-D3> the header itself is already guarded by the hash
2850 2011-03-04 22:29:44 <Diablo-D3> which includes payload characteristics regurgitated in the merkle root
2851 2011-03-04 22:30:17 <farzong> H(H(H(H(0...A).B).C.D.E) = 0...
2852 2011-03-04 22:30:18 <theymos> I'm talking about the TCP-carried messages like inv, getblock, etc.
2853 2011-03-04 22:30:52 <x6763> and some messages have empty payloads, but still have a checksum (of nothing)
2854 2011-03-04 22:30:54 <TD> farzong: it's actually hash < difficulty target
2855 2011-03-04 22:31:02 <TD> farzong: not actually counting the number of zeros
2856 2011-03-04 22:31:08 <farzong> i mean.. there could always be some shortcut, since it goes beyond sha-256's idealized workload (use once, no repeated hashing)..
2857 2011-03-04 22:31:12 <farzong> yeah makes sense TD
2858 2011-03-04 22:31:27 <Diablo-D3> theymos: oh
2859 2011-03-04 22:32:08 <theymos> I'm writing a network client in PHP. Working with binary in PHP is not as bad as I expected -- I've already finished version and verack messages.
2860 2011-03-04 22:32:38 <farzong> the questino of self-similar hashing.. H(H(x)+y) = x+z
2861 2011-03-04 22:35:08 <TD> theymos: yeah it's just the payload bytes. size is not included.
2862 2011-03-04 22:36:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try disabling all optimizations and use -ggdb?
2863 2011-03-04 22:37:32 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2864 2011-03-04 22:37:34 <farzong> now youd have a problem if the same hash appeared again further down the chain.. a bad assembler could then extend the chain by N blocks immediately creating the longest chain. do other nodes reject it because the same transaction appears twice? i dont really see that verification spelled out
2865 2011-03-04 22:38:55 <magnetron> farzong: i guess the timestamp would reduce the ambiguity
2866 2011-03-04 22:39:04 <farzong> yeah pretty much
2867 2011-03-04 22:39:04 altamic has joined
2868 2011-03-04 22:39:05 altamic has quit (Changing host)
2869 2011-03-04 22:39:05 altamic has joined
2870 2011-03-04 22:39:19 <farzong> as long as nodes arent just looking at "longest proof" and have some other validation
2871 2011-03-04 22:39:35 <x6763> the timestamp on a new block has to be within a certain range, plus any transactions that are double-spending will also invalidate the block
2872 2011-03-04 22:39:47 <farzong> ahh i c..
2873 2011-03-04 22:40:00 <theymos> You should read the wiki.
2874 2011-03-04 22:40:10 <farzong> yeah im delving into it
2875 2011-03-04 22:40:11 <magnetron> so a block hash collision wouldn't create a loop
2876 2011-03-04 22:40:26 <farzong> who will write the rfc :)
2877 2011-03-04 22:40:27 <luke-jr> magnetron: it would
2878 2011-03-04 22:40:50 <luke-jr> magnetron: but a block hash collision is less likely than hacking the entire network intentionally
2879 2011-03-04 22:41:19 <theymos> If there is ever a real block hash collision, Bitcoin will treat the first version it sees as valid. It'll never even download any other versions, since it'll think it already has them.
2880 2011-03-04 22:41:31 <theymos> It'd cause a big mess.
2881 2011-03-04 22:42:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: http://pastie.org/1634261
2882 2011-03-04 22:42:35 <farzong> i guess you could build it into the protocol and just ban any duplicate hashes so you have to keep noncing
2883 2011-03-04 22:44:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: see line 422 ?
2884 2011-03-04 22:44:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try taking out one of the two functions at random, just to see which one is the problem
2885 2011-03-04 22:44:34 <gavinandresen> a block hash collision is so unlikely it will never, ever happen.
2886 2011-03-04 22:45:07 <farzong> true :)  but we dont really know the probability since this is a particular type of repeated hash operation
2887 2011-03-04 22:45:18 <farzong> i agree tho :)
2888 2011-03-04 22:47:04 <theymos> Doubling SHA-256 could halve the number of possible hashes and it'd still never happen.
2889 2011-03-04 22:47:31 <mizerydearia> Does anyone have a suggestion for a name (or url path name) for a page that lists one or more types of "pots" in which one will distribute mcropayments (maybe 0.00001 bitcoins-worth) every minute to a user with lowest balance and oldest lastactivity timestamp?  /pots url path seems a bit strange to me.
2890 2011-03-04 22:48:47 <gavinandresen> mizerydearia:  /old_and_lazy_bonus ?
2891 2011-03-04 22:48:52 <mizerydearia> mm, interesting
2892 2011-03-04 22:49:11 <mizerydearia> with that, a bit of humor in the url path is acceptable also.  Any other suggestions?
2893 2011-03-04 22:49:57 <farzong> /bit-fountain
2894 2011-03-04 22:50:02 <mizerydearia> heh
2895 2011-03-04 22:50:26 <gavinandresen> maybe /bit-sprinkler
2896 2011-03-04 22:50:29 <mizerydearia> I think gavin deserves credit for all instances of "bitcoin fountain"
2897 2011-03-04 22:50:36 <gavinandresen> Ooh! Ooh!  or faucet!
2898 2011-03-04 22:50:39 <mizerydearia> mm, interesting
2899 2011-03-04 22:50:49 <mizerydearia> maybe wit instead of bit
2900 2011-03-04 22:51:07 <gavinandresen> witsprinkle sounds... interesting
2901 2011-03-04 22:51:09 <luke-jr> BitCoin Condensation
2902 2011-03-04 22:51:14 <mizerydearia> durr I meant "bitcoin faucet"
2903 2011-03-04 22:51:22 <luke-jr> <.<
2904 2011-03-04 22:51:58 <farzong> equalizer
2905 2011-03-04 22:52:03 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: did you get the myFreeTx branch?
2906 2011-03-04 22:52:08 <gavinandresen> Mr. Mystery Mister
2907 2011-03-04 22:52:11 <mizerydearia> Maybe I can make the "witcoin faucet" and parody gavin's bitcoin faucet ^_^
2908 2011-03-04 22:52:20 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  not yet, been busy with the 0.3.20.2 release today
2909 2011-03-04 22:52:22 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: you didn't understand condensation?
2910 2011-03-04 22:52:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ah, ok. should I find someone else to make a pull request, or will yuo remember?
2911 2011-03-04 22:52:36 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, I didn't?
2912 2011-03-04 22:52:52 <luke-jr> I thought condensation fit your description spot-on :P
2913 2011-03-04 22:52:54 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  my memory is famously bad (and I am about to leave for tonight)....
2914 2011-03-04 22:53:05 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, hmm...
2915 2011-03-04 22:53:15 <farzong> buckets
2916 2011-03-04 22:53:28 sgornick has joined
2917 2011-03-04 22:53:33 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, You're welcome to explain or clarify.
2918 2011-03-04 22:53:37 * luke-jr ponders making an Armagetron server with ways to win bitcoin
2919 2011-03-04 22:53:57 <farzong> has the first bitcoin virtual casino opened up
2920 2011-03-04 22:54:01 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2921 2011-03-04 22:54:21 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: well, you said the oldest, poorest user gets the prize… so I thought condensation would fit
2922 2011-03-04 22:54:23 <luke-jr> maybe dust would be better
2923 2011-03-04 22:54:36 <mizerydearia> farzong, there's a 3d mmorpcasino iirc
2924 2011-03-04 22:54:39 <knotwork> any idea what could be causing bitcoind to hang on getaccountaddress calls but not on preceding listaddress / balance calls?
2925 2011-03-04 22:54:47 <farzong> interesting
2926 2011-03-04 22:54:55 * mizerydearia tries to remember the name
2927 2011-03-04 22:55:16 <farzong> coinshark
2928 2011-03-04 22:55:43 <theymos> mizerydearia: Dragon Tales.
2929 2011-03-04 22:55:57 <theymos> Dragon's Tale, rather
2930 2011-03-04 22:56:33 <gavinandresen> knotwork:  first time you're calling it?  IT might be busy generating keypairs
2931 2011-03-04 22:56:48 <gavinandresen> (it'll create 100 first time you ask for an address)
2932 2011-03-04 22:57:17 <knotwork> I left it alone a long long time
2933 2011-03-04 22:57:25 prax_ is now known as prax
2934 2011-03-04 22:57:49 <knotwork> still maybe not long enough hmm
2935 2011-03-04 22:57:56 <mizerydearia> theymos, yes, thanks, designed by Teppy
2936 2011-03-04 22:57:58 <mizerydearia> farzong, o/
2937 2011-03-04 22:58:16 <farzong> aside from hash collisions, theres the problem of reachability.. if the block is fixed size, you might never find a nonce that works.. again very unlikely tho
2938 2011-03-04 22:58:20 <knotwork> normally I see in debug.log it create addresses when it starts up the first time
2939 2011-03-04 22:58:31 <knotwork> it doesnt take long per address
2940 2011-03-04 22:59:39 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, hmm, glancing at definition results @ google from define:condensation I don't see the relation
2941 2011-03-04 23:00:24 <knotwork> does getaccountaddress only automatically assign the account an address if it has some addresses pre-generated to give?
2942 2011-03-04 23:00:48 <knotwork> or is it relable that yo dont need to call getnewaddress first to make sure there is on?
2943 2011-03-04 23:00:53 <knotwork> s/on/one/
2944 2011-03-04 23:01:25 <luke-jr> anyhow
2945 2011-03-04 23:01:36 <luke-jr> anyone here with github want to submit a pull req for myFreeTx?
2946 2011-03-04 23:01:42 <knotwork> the whole thing seems to hang, it wont even respond to stop command or help command once it hangs
2947 2011-03-04 23:02:00 <farzong> alternative to searching valid nonces: try different weak key pairs
2948 2011-03-04 23:02:54 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I'm doing it now.
2949 2011-03-04 23:03:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: oh, thanks
2950 2011-03-04 23:03:15 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  is this a true summary:  "Always let your own transactions into blocks you create"
2951 2011-03-04 23:03:26 <luke-jr> I did email them asking for a comment-only account without the retarded terms, but they refused. ☹
2952 2011-03-04 23:03:28 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: sure
2953 2011-03-04 23:03:34 <BlueMatt> is there a reason to do that?
2954 2011-03-04 23:03:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it also accepts tx sent *to* you for at least the fee amount
2955 2011-03-04 23:03:48 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/97
2956 2011-03-04 23:03:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why demand a fee from yourself?
2957 2011-03-04 23:04:12 <BlueMatt> fair enough
2958 2011-03-04 23:04:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: this is how I can send 1 TBC without any fee
2959 2011-03-04 23:04:29 <luke-jr> it just takes 10 days :P
2960 2011-03-04 23:04:43 <luke-jr> (0.00065536 BTC)
2961 2011-03-04 23:05:08 <farzong> sha256 fpga
2962 2011-03-04 23:05:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the error is IsIPv4 always kills itself
2963 2011-03-04 23:05:13 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: really not sure why
2964 2011-03-04 23:05:24 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: then again I know almost nothing about C++
2965 2011-03-04 23:05:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's impossible :/
2966 2011-03-04 23:05:57 <quellhorst> where can i check the current bitcoin $ value?
2967 2011-03-04 23:05:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: when I add return 0==0; it works fine
2968 2011-03-04 23:06:02 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,stats
2969 2011-03-04 23:06:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111825 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1070 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66039.85177212
2970 2011-03-04 23:06:10 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,mtgox
2971 2011-03-04 23:06:11 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.9391,"low":0.9001,"vol":2815,"buy":0.91,"sell":0.9189,"last":0.901}}
2972 2011-03-04 23:06:12 <BlueMatt> quellhorst: there
2973 2011-03-04 23:06:16 <quellhorst> heh
2974 2011-03-04 23:06:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: try putting a & in front of node.ipv4.pchReserved ?
2975 2011-03-04 23:06:23 <quellhorst> and how do you sell?
2976 2011-03-04 23:06:36 <BlueMatt> quellhorst: ask on #bitcoin-otc or sell on mtgox.com
2977 2011-03-04 23:06:50 <BlueMatt> or one of the straight sellers, sans market
2978 2011-03-04 23:06:52 <quellhorst> has the value been going down?
2979 2011-03-04 23:07:01 <BlueMatt> quellhorst: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzbgBzm1g10zm2g25zi1gVolzi2gMACD
2980 2011-03-04 23:07:02 <quellhorst> seems like it was 1:1 not long ago
2981 2011-03-04 23:07:10 <luke-jr> quellhorst: it bounces around. 1:1 hasn't been for weeks
2982 2011-03-04 23:07:19 <luke-jr> it's floating at .9x
2983 2011-03-04 23:07:26 <quellhorst> you say that as if weeks is a long time ago :)
2984 2011-03-04 23:07:30 <luke-jr> .91 through .98
2985 2011-03-04 23:07:47 <BlueMatt> what exactly is the point of pchReserved and pchIPv4?
2986 2011-03-04 23:07:54 <TD> ipv6 support
2987 2011-03-04 23:08:00 <farzong> transactions volume per day / total btc in existence
2988 2011-03-04 23:08:03 <farzong> = ?
2989 2011-03-04 23:08:05 <BlueMatt> TD: yes, but what does it do?
2990 2011-03-04 23:08:06 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2991 2011-03-04 23:08:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: pchReserved is the first 12 bytes of the full IPv6 address
2992 2011-03-04 23:08:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: pchIPv4 is the prefix used for IPv4 support
2993 2011-03-04 23:08:25 <TD> ipv4 addresses can be mapped into ipv6 space as ::ff:1:2:3:4
2994 2011-03-04 23:08:36 <luke-jr> TD: it's ::ffff:aabb:ccdd
2995 2011-03-04 23:08:40 <TD> sorry, yeah
2996 2011-03-04 23:08:55 <TD> what he said :)
2997 2011-03-04 23:08:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the bitcoin protocol is actually IPv6-only basically
2998 2011-03-04 23:09:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so why is pchReserved in ipv4?
2999 2011-03-04 23:09:29 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh, nvm
3000 2011-03-04 23:09:32 <BlueMatt> my bad
3001 2011-03-04 23:09:35 <luke-jr> XD
3002 2011-03-04 23:10:39 <farzong> just paid for craigslist sex in btc
3003 2011-03-04 23:10:40 <farzong> nice
3004 2011-03-04 23:11:40 <theymos> Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong when calculating network checksums? http://pastebin.com/TYM1L7ww (I know the calculated hash needs to be truncated, but the given hash isn't anywhere in it.)
3005 2011-03-04 23:12:40 <farzong> substr(4 ?
3006 2011-03-04 23:12:41 <luke-jr> http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/bar/2232559052.html
3007 2011-03-04 23:12:42 <luke-jr> lol
3008 2011-03-04 23:13:01 <farzong> nice luke-jr
3009 2011-03-04 23:13:13 <luke-jr> not mine
3010 2011-03-04 23:13:26 <BlueMatt> probably compute4cash's
3011 2011-03-04 23:13:59 <farzong> substr($s, 0, 4);
3012 2011-03-04 23:14:02 <farzong> to get the first 4
3013 2011-03-04 23:14:02 * luke-jr wonders if he should copy the idea
3014 2011-03-04 23:14:48 <luke-jr> meh, that would mean producing some Windows thing to automate it all
3015 2011-03-04 23:15:07 <theymos> farzong: I want everything after byte 4.
3016 2011-03-04 23:15:24 <x6763> theymos: first you do the hash, then you take the first 4 bytes of the resulting hash
3017 2011-03-04 23:15:48 <theymos> That step removes the given checksum from the calculation.
3018 2011-03-04 23:15:49 <farzong> Key hash = Version concatenated with RIPEMD-160(SHA-256(public key))
3019 2011-03-04 23:15:49 <farzong> Checksum = 1st 4 bytes of SHA-256(SHA-256(Key hash))
3020 2011-03-04 23:16:09 <theymos> I'm doing network messages, not addresses.
3021 2011-03-04 23:17:03 <theymos> So the hash of 01026b714d010000000000000000000000000000000000ffff636f = b4b93fcb, which is not equal to the given hash 47cc0ff6.
3022 2011-03-04 23:17:13 <farzong> hashbash
3023 2011-03-04 23:17:25 <farzong> hex2bin is cool..?
3024 2011-03-04 23:17:43 <farzong> where does it say to hash only the bits starting from 5
3025 2011-03-04 23:17:44 Keefe has quit (Changing host)
3026 2011-03-04 23:17:44 Keefe has joined
3027 2011-03-04 23:18:10 hacim has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3028 2011-03-04 23:18:30 <theymos> $msg is originally the payload, which contains the given checksum. Clearly the checksum is not of data that includes itself, so I remove the checksum.
3029 2011-03-04 23:19:00 <farzong> yeah
3030 2011-03-04 23:19:07 <farzong> arent the first 4 bytes the "magic"
3031 2011-03-04 23:19:08 hacim has joined
3032 2011-03-04 23:19:21 <theymos> This is just the payload. The header was already removed.
3033 2011-03-04 23:19:24 <farzong> well ok payload starts at byte 25
3034 2011-03-04 23:19:27 <farzong> i c
3035 2011-03-04 23:21:41 quellhorst has quit (Changing host)
3036 2011-03-04 23:21:41 quellhorst has joined
3037 2011-03-04 23:21:55 <farzong> where does it say how to do the paylod checksum
3038 2011-03-04 23:23:16 CyanDynamo has joined
3039 2011-03-04 23:23:36 <farzong> i think the problem is in hex2bin
3040 2011-03-04 23:23:55 mmarker has joined
3041 2011-03-04 23:24:05 <farzong> oh and you might need to binarize the hash("sha256"
3042 2011-03-04 23:24:29 <farzong> since that is just a hash of a hexstring rather than a binary array
3043 2011-03-04 23:24:43 <farzong> hash('sha256', hex2bin(hash('sha256', $msg, ...
3044 2011-03-04 23:25:17 <theymos> hash(x,y,true) already outputs binary. I sucesfully used hex2bin to implement version and verack messages, so that's not the problem unless there's something special about this case.
3045 2011-03-04 23:25:27 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3046 2011-03-04 23:25:45 <farzong> oh ok.. so how do you print calculatedhash.. bin2hex again or something
3047 2011-03-04 23:25:57 <theymos> Yes.
3048 2011-03-04 23:29:30 <farzong> function hex2bin($str) {return pack("H*", $str);}
3049 2011-03-04 23:29:44 <theymos> That's exactly what I use.
3050 2011-03-04 23:29:46 <farzong> the only possibility then is that thhat is not the actual checksum+payload
3051 2011-03-04 23:29:53 <phantomcircuit_> are you doing hashing in php?
3052 2011-03-04 23:29:56 <phantomcircuit_> DEAR GOD WHY
3053 2011-03-04 23:30:11 <Diablo-D3> OH GOD WHAT
3054 2011-03-04 23:30:15 <Diablo-D3> WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THIS
3055 2011-03-04 23:30:21 <farzong> for a php client
3056 2011-03-04 23:30:29 * Diablo-D3 KILLS EVERYONE INVOLVED
3057 2011-03-04 23:30:54 <farzong> ok time to code webapps in asm/C then
3058 2011-03-04 23:31:00 <phantomcircuit_> Diablo-D3, finally something we can agree on
3059 2011-03-04 23:31:01 <farzong> hehe
3060 2011-03-04 23:31:18 <Diablo-D3> java! you do it in java!
3061 2011-03-04 23:31:23 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck did they teach you in school?!
3062 2011-03-04 23:31:26 <luke-jr> webapps should be banned
3063 2011-03-04 23:31:30 <phantomcircuit_> well that was nice
3064 2011-03-04 23:31:53 <luke-jr> and a network-transparent QtGui protocol invented
3065 2011-03-04 23:32:30 <mmarker> Diablo-D3, well, we have a miner done in Python
3066 2011-03-04 23:32:51 <luke-jr> Java is retarded.
3067 2011-03-04 23:32:54 <sipa> and in javascript...
3068 2011-03-04 23:32:57 <mmarker> I should write one in Fortran70 with MPI....so it can accidentally find its way on university computing clusters >.> <.<
3069 2011-03-04 23:33:05 <luke-jr> I'd rather ECMAScript than Java
3070 2011-03-04 23:33:08 <mmarker> Not saying I'd ever try a stunt like that.
3071 2011-03-04 23:33:29 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: the miner isnt in python though
3072 2011-03-04 23:33:38 <Diablo-D3> its in opencl
3073 2011-03-04 23:33:40 <mmarker> Diablo: jgarzik's is
3074 2011-03-04 23:33:45 <Diablo-D3> the python is just the host code
3075 2011-03-04 23:33:50 <Diablo-D3> I thought jgarzik's was in C?
3076 2011-03-04 23:33:50 <mmarker> He wrote one in Python.
3077 2011-03-04 23:33:58 <mmarker> The REAL one is in C
3078 2011-03-04 23:34:07 <mmarker> Lemme find the link
3079 2011-03-04 23:34:10 * Diablo-D3 thwaps mmarker 
3080 2011-03-04 23:34:46 <mmarker> http://yyz.us/bitcoin/pyminer.py
3081 2011-03-04 23:35:19 brunner has joined
3082 2011-03-04 23:35:31 <Diablo-D3> >pyminer.py
3083 2011-03-04 23:35:33 <Diablo-D3> >pypy
3084 2011-03-04 23:35:36 <Diablo-D3> >pikachu
3085 2011-03-04 23:35:45 <Diablo-D3> wtfamireading.jpg
3086 2011-03-04 23:35:49 <farzong> ok so if al the coins have pretty much been mined.. why keep mining
3087 2011-03-04 23:36:01 <farzong> not all, but now that the difficulty is so high
3088 2011-03-04 23:36:04 <Diablo-D3> farzong: thats not for another decade.
3089 2011-03-04 23:36:45 <Syke> yeah, you people cranking the difficulty over 65000 can stop mining now.
3090 2011-03-04 23:37:08 brunner has quit (Client Quit)
3091 2011-03-04 23:37:22 <farzong> plot adoption rate to estimate future size of bitcoin-accepting marketplace
3092 2011-03-04 23:37:38 <farzong> tat will estimate value of btc to usd based on demand
3093 2011-03-04 23:39:38 OneFixt has joined
3094 2011-03-04 23:39:39 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
3095 2011-03-04 23:39:39 OneFixt has joined
3096 2011-03-04 23:39:40 <farzong> now.. lets say the bitcoin marketplace achievemes volumes equivalent to the size of paypal's volume
3097 2011-03-04 23:39:54 <farzong> around $60bn transactions per year or more probably
3098 2011-03-04 23:40:16 <farzong> then at the maximum circulation of 21 million bitcoins, each is worth 2,857 USD
3099 2011-03-04 23:40:37 <Syke> transactions != market cap
3100 2011-03-04 23:40:47 <farzong> yeah its a proxy tho
3101 2011-03-04 23:41:17 <Syke> 1 btc = 3000 usd works for me!
3102 2011-03-04 23:41:24 <farzong> we need to know the money multiplier i guess
3103 2011-03-04 23:41:59 <farzong> if money is recirculated 100 times than each bitcoin is only $28
3104 2011-03-04 23:42:12 <farzong> so youre right you want to know the money in circulation rather than transaction volume
3105 2011-03-04 23:42:16 <x6763> a bitcoin is worth whatever people will give up for it
3106 2011-03-04 23:42:20 <farzong> (100 times per year)...
3107 2011-03-04 23:42:39 <x6763> regardless of silly mainstream econ equations
3108 2011-03-04 23:43:45 <farzong> avg. # transactions per paypal account = ?
3109 2011-03-04 23:43:45 <luke-jr> Syke: for me too. that's almost $2 per TBC
3110 2011-03-04 23:44:41 <mizerydearia> hmm, I must establish understanding how to implement charity implementation. In general, does it seem acceptable to establish a single user or entity to collect for a charity or should more than one user be able to collect for a single charitable organization?
3111 2011-03-04 23:45:40 <mizerydearia> For example, EFF
3112 2011-03-04 23:46:18 <mizerydearia> Perhaps a single user should be enough
3113 2011-03-04 23:46:51 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: depends on if you need to identify contributors
3114 2011-03-04 23:47:28 <Syke> donations to a charity should be tax deductible :)
3115 2011-03-04 23:47:38 <mizerydearia> I would like to establish identification before allowing for users to establish themselves as affiliated with a charity
3116 2011-03-04 23:47:57 <mizerydearia> However, I think that will be manual effort.
3117 2011-03-04 23:48:05 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: what?
3118 2011-03-04 23:48:26 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, what what?
3119 2011-03-04 23:48:45 <farzong> US GDP is 14.26 trillion, M1 money supply is 1.9 trillion - suggest volume is 7.5 times money supply (not including lending M2 ad so forth)
3120 2011-03-04 23:49:29 <mizerydearia> ;worldpop
3121 2011-03-04 23:49:30 <bitbot> mizerydearia: Connection refused.
3122 2011-03-04 23:49:44 <mizerydearia> ;worldpop
3123 2011-03-04 23:49:46 <bitbot> mizerydearia: According to http://is.gd/dsqcH the world population is 6,903,714,463. If everyone had the same amount of bitcoins, everyone would have 0.00304184 bitcoins.  If 0.00000001 bitcoins were equivalent to US$0.01, then everyone would have equivalent of US$3,041.84075291 and the value of all bitcoins would be equivalent of US$21,000,000,000,000.00.
3124 2011-03-04 23:50:37 <farzong> if GDP/M1 is similar to paypals 60bn transactio flow, each btc is 2,857 $usd
3125 2011-03-04 23:50:46 <farzong> but i dont think you can really compare..
3126 2011-03-04 23:51:34 <farzong> you'd want to look at a chart of global btc transaction volume
3127 2011-03-04 23:51:57 <farzong> that is.. someone is sitting on a shitload of btc
3128 2011-03-04 23:53:03 <[Tycho]> All those calculations are absolutely incorrect.
3129 2011-03-04 23:53:08 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
3130 2011-03-04 23:53:15 <farzong> [Tycho]: youre right
3131 2011-03-04 23:53:37 <farzong> the question is what is the best way to model btc's value
3132 2011-03-04 23:55:00 <quellhorst> how can i get my .wallet to work on my mac?
3133 2011-03-04 23:55:06 <quellhorst> i don't seem to have a ~/.bitcoin directory
3134 2011-03-04 23:55:18 brocktice has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3135 2011-03-04 23:55:21 <Syke> where did you wallet come from?
3136 2011-03-04 23:55:21 <farzong> really depends on the amount in active circulation.. there are dark pool that are inert
3137 2011-03-04 23:55:45 <quellhorst> syke: linux system
3138 2011-03-04 23:55:57 <Syke> are wallets platform independent?
3139 2011-03-04 23:57:01 Jeroenz0r has joined
3140 2011-03-04 23:57:02 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
3141 2011-03-04 23:57:02 Jeroenz0r has joined
3142 2011-03-04 23:57:26 <quellhorst> no idea
3143 2011-03-04 23:57:31 Takyoji has left ()
3144 2011-03-04 23:58:00 <mmarker> Check ~/Library/Application Settings
3145 2011-03-04 23:58:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: sorry, I was away...the problem occurs when IsIPv6() and IsIPv4() both return false, so ToStringIP doesnt return
3146 2011-03-04 23:58:13 <mmarker> it may be stashing the wallet in the standard Mac places
3147 2011-03-04 23:58:24 Syke has quit (Disconnected by services)
3148 2011-03-04 23:58:52 <quellhorst> ah yes, it did
3149 2011-03-04 23:58:53 Syke_ has joined
3150 2011-03-04 23:58:54 <quellhorst> found it :)