1 2011-03-07 00:01:14 <molecular> (looks at sipa's speed chart) for heaven's sake! what happened? did aliens discover mining bitcoins?
2 2011-03-07 00:01:44 <[Tycho]> No, it's MM
3 2011-03-07 00:01:59 <dazoe> where is this chart?
4 2011-03-07 00:02:01 <molecular> that looks like it could be close to 50% of the network? one guy? have you established that?
5 2011-03-07 00:02:08 <[Tycho]> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png
6 2011-03-07 00:02:10 <sipa> dazoe: bitcoin.sipa.be
7 2011-03-07 00:02:11 <molecular> dazoe, http://bitcoin.sipa.be
8 2011-03-07 00:02:34 <molecular> this is a very helpfull channel, one must say ;)
9 2011-03-07 00:02:49 <[Tycho]> molecular, yes.
10 2011-03-07 00:03:03 <[Tycho]> Well, one entity.
11 2011-03-07 00:03:31 <doublec> what's happened?
12 2011-03-07 00:03:39 <doublec> (late to the discussion party, sorry :)
13 2011-03-07 00:03:42 <Raulo> [Tycho]: If we spooked the MM by today's discussion the MM will be even more mysterious
14 2011-03-07 00:04:07 <molecular> I'm also late, can someone summarize what has been found?
15 2011-03-07 00:04:16 <[Tycho]> Raulo, how long would it take for you to find my blocks ?
16 2011-03-07 00:04:36 <Raulo> [Tycho]: what do you mean?
17 2011-03-07 00:04:47 <[Tycho]> [01:05] <Raulo> Tracing correlations among arrival of blocks by IP
18 2011-03-07 00:04:47 <[Tycho]> [01:06] <Raulo> I traced slush's pool this way and it worked well.
19 2011-03-07 00:04:58 <Kiba> price seem to be recovering
20 2011-03-07 00:04:59 <Raulo> Let me see
21 2011-03-07 00:05:02 jamesw_ has joined
22 2011-03-07 00:05:16 <slush> [Tycho]: yes, tracing when the round started is quite easy
23 2011-03-07 00:05:23 <[Tycho]> doublec, he got upgrades.
24 2011-03-07 00:05:50 <[Tycho]> slush, i know. I want to know, how much difference does the number of connections to network.
25 2011-03-07 00:06:15 <[Tycho]> Currently i'm implementing new sharing modes to address this.
26 2011-03-07 00:06:32 <[Tycho]> And havind fun tracing the network.
27 2011-03-07 00:06:35 <[Tycho]> *g
28 2011-03-07 00:06:42 <Raulo> [Tycho]: I'm currently not connected to your daemon
29 2011-03-07 00:06:44 <sipa> damn, why is the difficulty so "high" on the new testnet... without anyone mining it seems...
30 2011-03-07 00:07:04 <Raulo> If I were connected, I'd get your blocks with 80% probability
31 2011-03-07 00:07:10 <[Tycho]> sipa, MM switched to testnet ? :)
32 2011-03-07 00:07:16 <lfm> I much prefer the log vertical axis like my plot at http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
33 2011-03-07 00:07:18 <subpar> heh
34 2011-03-07 00:07:34 <[Tycho]> I don't like log-Y graphs.
35 2011-03-07 00:07:37 <sipa> lfm: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-large.png :)
36 2011-03-07 00:07:44 <[Tycho]> They aren't so dramatic.
37 2011-03-07 00:08:24 <lfm> ya well exponential growth isnt really dramatic, its ordinary
38 2011-03-07 00:08:47 <slush> he's actually online, probably also read this discussion :)
39 2011-03-07 00:08:48 <subpar> incredible growth in difficulty during mid July last year
40 2011-03-07 00:08:56 JackRabiit has joined
41 2011-03-07 00:09:03 <sipa> subpar: first /.
42 2011-03-07 00:09:07 <sipa> [Tycho]: btw, no, i'm waiting for a transaction to get confirmed on the testnet, and since it's taking too long, i've pointed my 103MH/s 4870 to mining on the testnet...
43 2011-03-07 00:09:23 <JackRabiit> What determines the frequency of BTC's put into the pool?
44 2011-03-07 00:09:35 <JackRabiit> is it the standard 50BTC every 10ish minutes?
45 2011-03-07 00:09:53 <sipa> by pool you mean slush's pool?
46 2011-03-07 00:10:01 <JackRabiit> Deepbit.net
47 2011-03-07 00:10:30 <subpar> Deepbit.net doesn't get 50 BTC every 10 minutes...
48 2011-03-07 00:10:35 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,calc 47000000
49 2011-03-07 00:10:37 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 47000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 1 hour, 24 minutes, and 39 seconds
50 2011-03-07 00:10:41 <JackRabiit> Hence my question
51 2011-03-07 00:10:48 <sipa> JackRabiit: there's 50 BTC in the whole network every 10 minutes
52 2011-03-07 00:10:50 <subpar> [Tycho]: 6 blocks today - ugh!
53 2011-03-07 00:10:51 <molecular> ;;bc,estimate
54 2011-03-07 00:10:52 <gribble> 77089.75930213
55 2011-03-07 00:10:55 <molecular> argh
56 2011-03-07 00:11:02 <phantomcircuit> JackRabiit, the combined speed of the pool
57 2011-03-07 00:11:03 <doublec> nm, found the longs
58 2011-03-07 00:11:03 <JackRabiit> Thankyou sipa
59 2011-03-07 00:11:04 <phantomcircuit> of course
60 2011-03-07 00:11:06 <doublec> s/longs/logs
61 2011-03-07 00:11:22 <sipa> JackRabiit: if deepbit has 5% of the network, it will get 50BTC every 10/0.05 = 200 minutes
62 2011-03-07 00:11:28 <[Tycho]> 50 BTC every 1.5 hours
63 2011-03-07 00:11:43 <subpar> [Tycho]: yes, in theory
64 2011-03-07 00:11:44 <JackRabiit> Aye
65 2011-03-07 00:11:54 <[Tycho]> subpar, average.
66 2011-03-07 00:11:54 <doublec> so a mystery miner had >50% of the network?
67 2011-03-07 00:11:57 <JackRabiit> 'tis why i want in on Slush's pool
68 2011-03-07 00:12:13 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, the difference is only 1%
69 2011-03-07 00:12:19 <subpar> [Tycho]: agreed - but just 6 blocks found today - so 4 hour average
70 2011-03-07 00:12:20 <JackRabiit> Really now...
71 2011-03-07 00:12:33 <subpar> almost 3 fold the average
72 2011-03-07 00:12:47 <[Tycho]> subpar, i'm sure it will average out.
73 2011-03-07 00:12:48 <JackRabiit> so most people are solo mining? thats whats making up the huge combined speed?
74 2011-03-07 00:13:01 <molecular> looks like someone's trying to draw stuff on http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/
75 2011-03-07 00:13:10 <subpar> [Tycho]: everything does if the n is large enough
76 2011-03-07 00:13:15 <subpar> ;-)
77 2011-03-07 00:13:31 <sipa> JackRabiit: the largest miners typically mine solo
78 2011-03-07 00:13:36 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
79 2011-03-07 00:13:44 <JackRabiit> Yeah...
80 2011-03-07 00:14:02 <JackRabiit> ArtForz mines solo with 35Ghash/sec
81 2011-03-07 00:15:01 <JackRabiit> makes me wish they'd pool up, but then again, they'd become majority of the pool all on thier own, so i dont know weather or not it'd be a good idea
82 2011-03-07 00:15:14 <JackRabiit> sure the pool gets larger
83 2011-03-07 00:15:24 Netsniper has joined
84 2011-03-07 00:15:43 <subpar> >50% under one person's control = the potential for suck
85 2011-03-07 00:15:56 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, mining solo becomes very unprofitable if your average interval is less than difficulty adjustment interval.
86 2011-03-07 00:16:02 <JackRabiit> and therefore would scrape more BTC's, but the people in the pool's that are Dominating it will get nearly nothing
87 2011-03-07 00:16:04 <molecular> JackRabiit, why would you want large miners to pool up?
88 2011-03-07 00:16:15 <JackRabiit> Well
89 2011-03-07 00:16:25 <JackRabiit> I dont, it's a quandery of mine
90 2011-03-07 00:16:32 <phantomcircuit> any pool with > 50% of the network could do bad stuff
91 2011-03-07 00:16:36 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, i think that you aren't completely understand how pool works.
92 2011-03-07 00:16:37 <molecular> what would be the upside, though, dont see it
93 2011-03-07 00:16:39 <JackRabiit> Would doing such a thing benefit the pool?
94 2011-03-07 00:16:43 <phantomcircuit> so indeed you dont want large miners pooling up
95 2011-03-07 00:16:49 <molecular> no you dont
96 2011-03-07 00:17:01 <JackRabiit> No i know Tycho, just needed to clear it up
97 2011-03-07 00:17:21 akem has joined
98 2011-03-07 00:17:21 akem has quit (Changing host)
99 2011-03-07 00:17:21 akem has joined
100 2011-03-07 00:17:35 <molecular> well, any MM with >50% could do bad stuff, too
101 2011-03-07 00:17:40 <JackRabiit> wth Akem, had an ip and now he doesnt
102 2011-03-07 00:17:50 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, if one pool has less hashing speed it doesn't mean that you will get less BTC per hour.
103 2011-03-07 00:17:52 <phantomcircuit> molecular, sure but that's far more difficult
104 2011-03-07 00:17:59 * lolcat took akem's ip
105 2011-03-07 00:18:26 <Raulo> 20 minutes without blocks. MM must have shut down his miners and now is entering into stealth mode.
106 2011-03-07 00:18:26 <JackRabiit> I thought that if the pools total hash speed is higher the colletive pool would have higher odds of getting BTC's...
107 2011-03-07 00:18:42 <JackRabiit> MM= mega miner?
108 2011-03-07 00:18:45 <JackRabiit> or someone
109 2011-03-07 00:18:51 <molecular> MysteryMiner
110 2011-03-07 00:18:56 <JackRabiit> Ah
111 2011-03-07 00:19:32 <molecular> the guy that increased the total network hashing power by, well, at least 20% (correct me) today
112 2011-03-07 00:19:43 <Keefe> what's going on? some mystery miner is doing a huge amount of hashing? how much?
113 2011-03-07 00:19:54 <Keefe> ah
114 2011-03-07 00:20:03 <molecular> dunno 200Ghash/s
115 2011-03-07 00:20:10 <[Tycho]> May be he just become unlucky :)
116 2011-03-07 00:20:17 <molecular> could be
117 2011-03-07 00:20:21 <Keefe> i think 200 ghps would be more like 40%
118 2011-03-07 00:20:22 <Raulo> melecular and Keefe: more like 400 Ghash/s
119 2011-03-07 00:20:27 <[Tycho]> Or someone casted a curse on him.
120 2011-03-07 00:20:29 <Keefe> wtf?
121 2011-03-07 00:20:33 <molecular> got an improbability-drive from somewhere ;)
122 2011-03-07 00:20:42 <Keefe> 400 ghps ius getting dangerous
123 2011-03-07 00:20:44 <JackRabiit> Tycho correct me when im wrong but: say the pool's total hash speed magically doubled, But my proportional rate magically stayed the same, Would i gain More or Less BTC's?
124 2011-03-07 00:20:57 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, same BTC.
125 2011-03-07 00:21:08 <JackRabiit> Wth, im retarded then
126 2011-03-07 00:21:12 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, your BTC gain depends only on YOUR speed.
127 2011-03-07 00:21:14 <joe_1> somebodys ruining the bitcoin network?
128 2011-03-07 00:21:16 <JackRabiit> Yar
129 2011-03-07 00:21:18 <molecular> 780-430 = 250Ghash/s increase in last couple of days
130 2011-03-07 00:21:28 <Raulo> Keefe: but that;s what it seems. By 3 independent methods: strange coinbase, IP traffic and hist wallet :)
131 2011-03-07 00:21:47 <Keefe> hist?
132 2011-03-07 00:21:52 <Raulo> his*
133 2011-03-07 00:21:58 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
134 2011-03-07 00:22:02 <Keefe> he's sending all new coins to one addr?
135 2011-03-07 00:22:12 <JackRabiit> Tycho what determines the pool's chances of getting BTC's
136 2011-03-07 00:22:14 <Raulo> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc
137 2011-03-07 00:22:22 <JackRabiit> is it not thier total hash speed?
138 2011-03-07 00:22:26 <slush> Keefe: we know how he is
139 2011-03-07 00:22:32 <molecular> joe_1, not really. somebody's mining a lot of btc, though
140 2011-03-07 00:22:40 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
141 2011-03-07 00:22:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112392 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 503 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77089.75930213
142 2011-03-07 00:22:48 <Keefe> slush: you know who he is?
143 2011-03-07 00:23:02 <slush> Keefe: yes, he was connected to my pool and used the same wallet
144 2011-03-07 00:23:18 <phantomcircuit> Raulo, that is quite a substantial sum...
145 2011-03-07 00:23:25 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, yes. But your reward per given time interval is not related to pool speed.
146 2011-03-07 00:23:25 <Keefe> "strange coinbase" as in custom mod?
147 2011-03-07 00:23:26 <JackRabiit> GACK! that guy is a HUGE player!
148 2011-03-07 00:23:42 <Raulo> phantomcircit: The sum is nothing. look at the rate of increase
149 2011-03-07 00:23:45 <molecular> JackRabiit, yes, it's the pools total hashspeed that determines how many blocks it finds (depending on difficulty, or course)
150 2011-03-07 00:23:51 <Keefe> sounds like he's trying to be public about his power then
151 2011-03-07 00:23:53 <JackRabiit> Yes yes yes
152 2011-03-07 00:24:04 <slush> Keefe: I don't think so
153 2011-03-07 00:24:14 akem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
154 2011-03-07 00:24:25 <Keefe> Raulo: what do you mean by strange coinbase?
155 2011-03-07 00:24:36 <slush> Keefe: I think he just didn't metioned it will be such easy to detect him
156 2011-03-07 00:24:44 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, if the pool's speed is high, then pool finds many blocks, but you get less reward per each block because your part of pool's speed is smaller.
157 2011-03-07 00:24:44 <molecular> JackRabiit, so if poolspeed doubles, it finds twice as many blocks... if your speed stays the same, you get the same money from the pool as before (if pool works correctly)
158 2011-03-07 00:24:58 <JackRabiit> so in theory the pool would have more BTC for me to try and mine if the pool's speed magically doubled without my %proportion going down?
159 2011-03-07 00:25:07 zylche has joined
160 2011-03-07 00:25:13 <JackRabiit> Okay
161 2011-03-07 00:25:15 <JackRabiit> Thankyou
162 2011-03-07 00:25:20 <JackRabiit> All cleard up now
163 2011-03-07 00:25:22 <slush> JackRabiit: your money are not related to pool hashpower
164 2011-03-07 00:25:26 <molecular> JackRabiit, you don't "mine pool BTC" you mine real BTC
165 2011-03-07 00:25:31 <slush> JackRabiit: your money are only related to YOUR hashpower
166 2011-03-07 00:25:46 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
167 2011-03-07 00:25:47 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.9098,"low":0.81,"vol":12627,"buy":0.87,"sell":0.89,"last":0.8999}}
168 2011-03-07 00:25:48 <slush> JackRabiit: by rising pool hashrate, you will only have more steady payouts (less variance)
169 2011-03-07 00:25:48 <sipa> the pool just spreads it more evenly
170 2011-03-07 00:25:59 <slush> JackRabiit: But variance isn't problem on both of current pool
171 2011-03-07 00:25:59 <JackRabiit> thankyou slush!
172 2011-03-07 00:26:37 <Raulo> Keefe: see discussion at about 23:00 in the transcript
173 2011-03-07 00:27:08 <JackRabiit> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc What is up with this guy!?! he's hoggin all the BTC's!... or is he...
174 2011-03-07 00:27:21 <endian7000> he's strengthening the network
175 2011-03-07 00:27:31 <JFK911> looks like bitcoin is getting hacked and manipulated
176 2011-03-07 00:27:38 <JFK911> mi going to sell all mine right now
177 2011-03-07 00:28:00 <Raulo> Keefe: Actually starting 22:56
178 2011-03-07 00:28:05 <Keefe> thx
179 2011-03-07 00:28:14 <endian7000> where is the transcript?
180 2011-03-07 00:28:26 <Keefe> scroll up?
181 2011-03-07 00:28:33 <Raulo> http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/2011/03/06#l2242
182 2011-03-07 00:28:34 <Kiba> JFK911: ?
183 2011-03-07 00:28:34 <Keefe> the chan is also logged somewhere. check the topic
184 2011-03-07 00:28:56 <endian7000> thanks
185 2011-03-07 00:29:16 <molecular> JFK911, that's bullcrap, it's not being hacked or manipulated
186 2011-03-07 00:29:50 <Keefe> but if/when this guy decides to cash out that 45k btc, we might see major downside pressure in the markets
187 2011-03-07 00:30:00 <JFK911> stop trying to talk me out of getting out before the crash!
188 2011-03-07 00:30:01 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, just to scare you - http://blockexplorer.com/address/12C9c9VQLMrLi4Ffzq2wDvwrKnUPaAaNFp
189 2011-03-07 00:30:08 <molecular> he cant cash it out instantly
190 2011-03-07 00:30:16 <Kiba> JFK911 is being irrational
191 2011-03-07 00:30:17 <molecular> well, then get out
192 2011-03-07 00:30:20 <[Tycho]> Got MM's block.
193 2011-03-07 00:30:26 <[Tycho]> But it's far from me.
194 2011-03-07 00:30:33 <doublec> [Tycho]: that's a nice sum of coins!
195 2011-03-07 00:30:55 <molecular> well, markets can be irrational, so maybe JFK911 has a point to get out, but it's not a hack or manipulation, just might be some panic
196 2011-03-07 00:31:14 <sipa> panic, where?
197 2011-03-07 00:31:18 <JFK911> i know i cannot compete with any offer to sell 250k btc
198 2011-03-07 00:31:20 <molecular> in JFK911 mind
199 2011-03-07 00:31:25 <JFK911> i am small pennies compared to this guy
200 2011-03-07 00:31:43 <Kiba> could the bitcoin be owned by Satoshi?
201 2011-03-07 00:32:02 <doublec> JFK911: there's 5 million coins in circulation. It's to be expected that some people have a lot.
202 2011-03-07 00:32:03 <molecular> which bitcoin?
203 2011-03-07 00:32:09 <JFK911> maybe satoshi installed bitcoin backup
204 2011-03-07 00:32:19 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, if that scares you... there are 5 million odd BTC in existence, daily volume is probably around 20k total
205 2011-03-07 00:32:20 <Raulo> I'm going sleep. Bye
206 2011-03-07 00:33:05 <Kiba> molecular: the 250k BTC
207 2011-03-07 00:33:07 <phantomcircuit> basically there needs to be more stuff you can purchase in BTC
208 2011-03-07 00:33:32 <molecular> phantomcircuit, true
209 2011-03-07 00:33:41 akem has joined
210 2011-03-07 00:33:48 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoingadgets.com/ is not good enough for you?
211 2011-03-07 00:33:55 <Kiba> well, I am writing a novel
212 2011-03-07 00:34:19 <phantomcircuit> lol
213 2011-03-07 00:34:23 <Kiba> but nobody tipped me
214 2011-03-07 00:34:24 <Kiba> yet
215 2011-03-07 00:34:32 <molecular> currently a lot of stuff sold for btc is overpriced, like the drugs on silkroad
216 2011-03-07 00:34:46 <doublec> JFK911: http://bitcoinreport.blogspot.com/2011/03/bitcoin-top-100-rich-list-6th-march.html
217 2011-03-07 00:34:53 <subpar> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1AYtnRppWM7tWQaVLpm7TvcHKrjKxgCRvX
218 2011-03-07 00:35:03 <phantomcircuit> http://www.bitcoingadgets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_12&products_id=23
219 2011-03-07 00:35:06 <phantomcircuit> lolol felony
220 2011-03-07 00:35:17 <JackRabiit> TYCHO
221 2011-03-07 00:35:19 <JackRabiit> GAH
222 2011-03-07 00:35:22 <JackRabiit> THAT DID SCARE ME
223 2011-03-07 00:35:24 <JackRabiit> WHO IS THAT
224 2011-03-07 00:35:32 <JackRabiit> no that was not caps
225 2011-03-07 00:35:34 <JackRabiit> that was shift
226 2011-03-07 00:36:02 <molecular> lol
227 2011-03-07 00:36:55 <molecular> 1AYtnRppWM7tWQaVLpm7TvcHKrjKxgCRvX (balance 400.000) <- why is that address not in the rich list?
228 2011-03-07 00:37:17 <subpar> that address sent to the 250K address
229 2011-03-07 00:37:22 <molecular> ah
230 2011-03-07 00:37:27 <molecular> doesn't have to be another guy, though
231 2011-03-07 00:37:55 <doublec> molecular: that address is in an earlier rich list on that blog
232 2011-03-07 00:38:14 <doublec> molecular: http://bitcoinreport.blogspot.com/2011/01/latest-bitcoin-top-100-rich-list.html
233 2011-03-07 00:38:16 <JackRabiit> Hey ArtForz you active? my friend would like to see shots of your Miner
234 2011-03-07 00:38:39 <molecular> where can you see that 250k send? it's not in blockexplorer largest tx?
235 2011-03-07 00:38:45 Zarutian has joined
236 2011-03-07 00:39:08 <molecular> ArtForz, said gn8 earlier, but I'd also like to see shots of his miner (the new one with the ASICs)
237 2011-03-07 00:41:04 <phantomcircuit> JackRabiit, he went to sleep
238 2011-03-07 00:41:06 <JackRabiit> 12higDjoCCNXSA95xZMWUdPvXNmkAduhWv Wow another MM
239 2011-03-07 00:41:09 <JackRabiit> Oh dear
240 2011-03-07 00:42:46 <slush> JackRabiit: stop panicking, please
241 2011-03-07 00:42:54 <slush> It's enough that I'm panicking
242 2011-03-07 00:42:55 <slush> :)
243 2011-03-07 00:42:55 <JackRabiit> Yar
244 2011-03-07 00:43:24 <subpar> slush: heh
245 2011-03-07 00:43:26 <molecular> JackRabiit, what's the trouble? some people have a lot of money? that bother you?
246 2011-03-07 00:43:45 <subpar> molecular: have a lot of BTC, you mean to say...
247 2011-03-07 00:44:07 <subpar> I guess my bias towards BTC not being "money" just poked out
248 2011-03-07 00:44:13 <molecular> yeah, well, was planning on answering something like "that's always been the case, dude" if he said yes, which would've been hard with BTC ;)
249 2011-03-07 00:44:31 <joe_1> bitcoin is being destroyed by a powerful miner?
250 2011-03-07 00:44:36 <joe_1> should i sell all now?
251 2011-03-07 00:44:39 <[Tycho]> joe_1, not yet.
252 2011-03-07 00:44:45 <[Tycho]> Otherwise it would.
253 2011-03-07 00:44:51 <subpar> panic is when I come to the market
254 2011-03-07 00:45:05 <molecular> why would he destroy it?
255 2011-03-07 00:45:23 <subpar> buy when everyone can't sell fast enough
256 2011-03-07 00:46:15 <JackRabiit> Aparrently it bothers me alot!
257 2011-03-07 00:46:26 <joe_1> what % does he have?
258 2011-03-07 00:46:28 <JackRabiit> how the hell are we supposed to compete?
259 2011-03-07 00:46:38 <joe_1> 30%? 40%? 46%?
260 2011-03-07 00:47:21 <JackRabiit> i thought my 220Mhash/s was decent! but turns out its a POS!,so i Have to pool, but even then it's like fighting over the water coming out of a leaky faucet during a drought
261 2011-03-07 00:47:26 <subpar> not hoping that happens BTW
262 2011-03-07 00:48:18 <JackRabiit> i thought this was a lottery
263 2011-03-07 00:48:20 <JackRabiit> lul
264 2011-03-07 00:48:28 <JackRabiit> notta EPIC RIG FIGHT
265 2011-03-07 00:48:30 <joe_1> mystery miner has >50%?
266 2011-03-07 00:48:39 <subpar> joe_1: no
267 2011-03-07 00:48:49 <joe_1> >40%?
268 2011-03-07 00:48:49 <sipa> around 40% maybe
269 2011-03-07 00:48:57 <subpar> 35-40%
270 2011-03-07 00:49:04 <joe_1> HOLY SHITTT I HAVE TO SELL NOW FUCKKKKKK WHERE IS SATOSHI
271 2011-03-07 00:49:12 <subpar> so everyone go buy 2 5870s right away =)
272 2011-03-07 00:49:14 Megalodon_MS has quit (Quit: Page closed)
273 2011-03-07 00:49:30 <molecular> if everyone panics an tries to sell: that wont work, no buyers
274 2011-03-07 00:49:39 <larsig> must be better ways to earn bitcoin than mining
275 2011-03-07 00:49:39 <larsig> starting a business, fortune telling or begging
276 2011-03-07 00:49:57 <molecular> begging is cool
277 2011-03-07 00:49:59 <subpar> larsig: agreed - mining is slowing going to die
278 2011-03-07 00:50:03 <molecular> I always give to beggers
279 2011-03-07 00:50:09 <lolcat> larsig: Give me a bitcoin and I'll tell you a bether way
280 2011-03-07 00:50:11 <subpar> slowly
281 2011-03-07 00:50:19 jamesdrew has joined
282 2011-03-07 00:50:29 <doublec> everyone should sell. I might finally be able to buy some cheap.
283 2011-03-07 00:50:32 <joe_1> is anyone buying coins? or is it too late to cash out
284 2011-03-07 00:50:45 <molecular> doublec, agreed, am also waiting for this to happen ;)
285 2011-03-07 00:50:46 <slush> molecular: in fact, one panicking user sell bigger amount on mtgox will start the market hell
286 2011-03-07 00:50:49 <larsig> lolcat, you're a seer?
287 2011-03-07 00:50:55 <slush> molecular: because there is no demand, price will drop to zero
288 2011-03-07 00:50:58 <slush> (almost)
289 2011-03-07 00:51:15 <molecular> perfect, I will be demand and buy lots of btc for 0.01
290 2011-03-07 00:51:20 <joe_1> subpar:why would mining die out
291 2011-03-07 00:51:30 <JackRabiit> Molecular can i have some bit coins pretty please ( i am begging you) i want to proove they're worth something
292 2011-03-07 00:51:33 <JackRabiit> lol
293 2011-03-07 00:51:37 <larsig> damn, my 20 bitcoins will never rise in value :S
294 2011-03-07 00:51:44 <JackRabiit> [16:41] <molecular> begging is cool
295 2011-03-07 00:51:46 <molecular> JackRabiit, give me an address
296 2011-03-07 00:51:54 <subpar> eventually the difficulty and payout will be too small versus the power costs to mine
297 2011-03-07 00:51:59 <lolcat> larsig: You must have gotten some bad ones, mine is worth 4x what I got them for
298 2011-03-07 00:52:09 <JackRabiit> 1P4y3HKKF5deh4rUBUAq6j4qjuqQhC9J7t
299 2011-03-07 00:52:10 <subpar> remember the 50 BTC per block drops to 25 next year
300 2011-03-07 00:52:16 <subpar> every 4 years
301 2011-03-07 00:52:19 <doublec> I'm more curious how they collected all the computing power
302 2011-03-07 00:52:27 <joe_1> subpar: i disagree, mining will increase TO that point, then remain at that level
303 2011-03-07 00:52:31 <lolcat> Who is mystery miner?
304 2011-03-07 00:52:32 <jamesdrew> mac question (tried posting to forum)... I can't find my wallet.dat folder on OSX anywhere. Any ideas?
305 2011-03-07 00:52:36 <doublec> is it a private pool? a bot net? someone with lots of graphics cards that they've been collecting?
306 2011-03-07 00:52:38 <JackRabiit> My friend is sitting behind me, he thinks all of this BTC stuff is just pure lies, including the MM's
307 2011-03-07 00:52:41 <subpar> what "could" offset this is a rise in the value of the bTC
308 2011-03-07 00:52:47 <[Noodles]> JackRabiit: what proof of value is that if you get them for free?
309 2011-03-07 00:52:56 <molecular> JackRabiit, here we go, poor soul
310 2011-03-07 00:52:58 <slush> subpar: turning mining into nonprofit stuff will hurt bitcoin a lot; then people disconnect their miners and big players with 40% of network will go over 50% easily
311 2011-03-07 00:53:01 <JackRabiit> I'll convert it into paypal money
312 2011-03-07 00:53:10 <[Noodles]> 1BTC?
313 2011-03-07 00:53:13 <[Noodles]> good luck
314 2011-03-07 00:53:15 <molecular> 0.33
315 2011-03-07 00:53:21 <subpar> slush: yeah - have wondred about that myself
316 2011-03-07 00:53:21 <JackRabiit> Woohoo!
317 2011-03-07 00:53:22 <[Noodles]> ^_^
318 2011-03-07 00:53:26 <JackRabiit> thankyou!
319 2011-03-07 00:53:28 <lolcat> doublec: I guess it is a dude with a rainbow table.
320 2011-03-07 00:53:35 <molecular> JackRabiit, dont mention it
321 2011-03-07 00:53:38 <doublec> lolcat: somehow I doubt that :)
322 2011-03-07 00:53:55 <subpar> slush: I will still run bitcoind here at home but can't see mining more than another month
323 2011-03-07 00:53:57 <JackRabiit> Honestly? i would rather rant around about it but i'll shutup
324 2011-03-07 00:54:37 <subpar> actually - maybe until Summer - this heater under the desk is nice right now
325 2011-03-07 00:55:13 <larsig> is 0.01 the lowest amount you can transfer? I thought bitcoin had 8 decimals
326 2011-03-07 00:55:26 <sipa> the protocol yes
327 2011-03-07 00:55:30 <JackRabiit> it's divisible by 8
328 2011-03-07 00:55:31 <molecular> larsig, in current client yes, techniscally less is possible
329 2011-03-07 00:56:00 <sipa> the protocol works with integer multiples of the base unit, 0.00000001 BTC
330 2011-03-07 00:56:18 <joe_1> didnt someone put in that special case 0.01 forced fee that makes it impossible to send micropaymeents
331 2011-03-07 00:56:30 <sipa> yes
332 2011-03-07 00:56:40 <larsig> sounds stupid
333 2011-03-07 00:56:47 <sipa> it's not, but it may be outdated
334 2011-03-07 00:56:55 <sipa> it prevents spam
335 2011-03-07 00:56:59 <larsig> to force it
336 2011-03-07 00:57:35 <joe_1> fee and algorithm for when it's imposed should be in the options / command line parameters
337 2011-03-07 00:57:59 <larsig> hm
338 2011-03-07 00:58:00 <larsig> but by default, there is no tax yet?
339 2011-03-07 00:58:36 <sipa> enforced by miners, or included by clients?
340 2011-03-07 00:58:59 <JackRabiit> Molecular i love you for an undisclosed reason
341 2011-03-07 00:59:04 <JackRabiit> Really
342 2011-03-07 00:59:06 <JackRabiit> i do
343 2011-03-07 00:59:36 <molecular> JackRabiit, hehe
344 2011-03-07 00:59:52 <JackRabiit> you pushed me to ____ and then i donated it, the donation was accepted and i now have a thankyou letter in my email, you have Prooved the value of coins to me and my neighbourhood Truly
345 2011-03-07 01:00:02 <JackRabiit> Thankyou
346 2011-03-07 01:00:06 <molecular> very nice
347 2011-03-07 01:00:50 <joe_1> no tax on transactions
348 2011-03-07 01:00:52 <molecular> I think people should be throwing around small amounts a lot more, like as little thank-yous for a good post in forum and stuff
349 2011-03-07 01:00:52 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
350 2011-03-07 01:01:10 <JackRabiit> Yeah! like in forums when you hit the thank button!
351 2011-03-07 01:01:15 <JackRabiit> that would be awesome
352 2011-03-07 01:01:16 <JackRabiit> !
353 2011-03-07 01:01:38 <molecular> people put their adresses in signatures in forums, so you can do that
354 2011-03-07 01:01:43 <molecular> also there is witcoin.org
355 2011-03-07 01:01:46 <doublec> similar to how the flattr forums have flattr buttons on each post. it'd be cool if the bitcoin forums had something bitcoiny.
356 2011-03-07 01:01:55 <molecular> witcoin.com, sorry
357 2011-03-07 01:02:01 <joe_1> i've been pushing for private key payments
358 2011-03-07 01:02:17 <molecular> private key payments?
359 2011-03-07 01:02:27 <joe_1> if i want to pay you, i give you the private key to some bitcoins
360 2011-03-07 01:02:29 <xelister> I WILL BUY ALL YOUR COINS
361 2011-03-07 01:02:32 <xelister> at 0.1 USD >_>
362 2011-03-07 01:02:38 * xelister adds to the panic
363 2011-03-07 01:02:49 <molecular> hey, xelister, as I said abover, I WILL DO THAT ALREADY
364 2011-03-07 01:02:57 <molecular> ;)
365 2011-03-07 01:03:41 <endian7000> eww, the exchange rate chart is pretty jagged today
366 2011-03-07 01:03:47 <endian7000> we need HFT and options trading...
367 2011-03-07 01:03:48 <molecular> joe_1, ok, well that's possible, but why?
368 2011-03-07 01:03:50 <doublec> testnet coins are obviously going to be worth more than bitcoins soon since there's no MM operating on that network. I'll sell you my testnet coins for 0.5 USD each ;)
369 2011-03-07 01:04:05 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
370 2011-03-07 01:04:12 <joe_1> private key payments avoids having to contact the recipient
371 2011-03-07 01:04:26 <xelister> doublec: yeah that worked out really well last time.
372 2011-03-07 01:04:31 <xelister> doublec: when they reseted testnet
373 2011-03-07 01:04:31 <molecular> I'll exchange testnet<->realnet 1:1 right now
374 2011-03-07 01:04:37 echelon has joined
375 2011-03-07 01:04:44 <doublec> xelister: haha, true.
376 2011-03-07 01:04:57 <xelister> molecular: I buy 10000 real coins for old-testnet coins. DEAL is sealed. You all seen it
377 2011-03-07 01:05:05 <molecular> lol
378 2011-03-07 01:05:06 <doublec> xelister: confirmed, I saw it.
379 2011-03-07 01:05:12 <joe_1> well you still have to contact the recipient, but only to give them the key to the coins. you dont need to get them to tell you their bitcoin address
380 2011-03-07 01:05:13 <doublec> I can unsee it for 100 btc
381 2011-03-07 01:05:15 <xelister> molecular: give testnet addr and payup =)
382 2011-03-07 01:05:39 <molecular> doublec, new testnet BTC or old?
383 2011-03-07 01:05:40 <xelister> doublec: I can sell you bleeach for 1000 BTC (I take into account the bubble burst)
384 2011-03-07 01:05:45 <[Tycho]> Who needs old testner's coins ? :)
385 2011-03-07 01:05:58 <xelister> orphans
386 2011-03-07 01:06:01 <doublec> [Tycho]: they might be valuable from a historical perspective
387 2011-03-07 01:06:15 <doublec> like old coin collecting
388 2011-03-07 01:06:43 <joe_1> now im really panicing
389 2011-03-07 01:06:52 <xelister> I closed a deal with mayor to feed 100 orpahnts for a year for all my old testnet coins, and then they resetet it. THINK OF THE CHILDREN Blalararaghghhhh
390 2011-03-07 01:06:53 <joe_1> can someone take my coins, 10 cents each?
391 2011-03-07 01:07:15 <molecular> joe_1, how many?
392 2011-03-07 01:07:15 <doublec> you pay me 10 cents for each btc you give me? deal.
393 2011-03-07 01:07:20 <joe_1> like 1000 coins
394 2011-03-07 01:07:22 <xelister> joe_1: I will buy up to 1000 BTC @ 0.1 usd (bank wire)
395 2011-03-07 01:07:24 <molecular> I was first
396 2011-03-07 01:07:27 <xelister> hey I was
397 2011-03-07 01:07:39 * xelister throws a rock
398 2011-03-07 01:07:47 <doublec> the bitcoin wars have started...
399 2011-03-07 01:07:49 * molecular catches it and throws back
400 2011-03-07 01:08:28 <joe_1> bitcoin was fun while it lasted
401 2011-03-07 01:08:45 <JackRabiit> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc Wow is doing this legal? he's got like 200comps solomining and dumping the funds to him, he's basically a gigantic pool of himself
402 2011-03-07 01:08:55 <[Tycho]> Would be funny if coins were fully traceable up to generation :)
403 2011-03-07 01:09:11 <joe_1> coins are fully traceable
404 2011-03-07 01:09:15 <xelister> [Tycho]: coins are fully tracable up to generation.
405 2011-03-07 01:09:25 <doublec> JackRabiit: there's nothing different from what that person is doing to what any of the pools are doing
406 2011-03-07 01:09:30 <xelister> [Tycho]: makes you want to cancel all this heroin and pluton drugs, eh? ;)
407 2011-03-07 01:09:37 <JackRabiit> Yeah i just thought about that actually
408 2011-03-07 01:09:49 zylche has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
409 2011-03-07 01:09:49 <[Tycho]> xelister, what about merging them ?
410 2011-03-07 01:09:51 <JackRabiit> THE SMART BAS***D
411 2011-03-07 01:09:59 <xelister> [Tycho]: doesnt help
412 2011-03-07 01:10:06 <xelister> JackRabiit: no I DECLARE THIS ILLEGAL
413 2011-03-07 01:10:18 <JackRabiit> huh?
414 2011-03-07 01:10:22 <JackRabiit> what?
415 2011-03-07 01:10:25 <xelister> under USA morallfag law code paragraph 82.51, anyone in possession of BTC is pedorist.
416 2011-03-07 01:10:31 <JackRabiit> anyhow yeah i just realised how stupid what i just said was
417 2011-03-07 01:10:40 <xelister> JackRabiit: "Wow is doing this legal? he's got like 200comps solomining
418 2011-03-07 01:10:45 <JackRabiit> i guess im just Shocked at how this guy made 700BTC 15mins ago
419 2011-03-07 01:10:50 <xelister> =)
420 2011-03-07 01:10:55 <xelister> oh no he makes money
421 2011-03-07 01:11:00 <xelister> deey toook our joooobs
422 2011-03-07 01:11:08 * xelister throws a burrito
423 2011-03-07 01:11:09 mekel has joined
424 2011-03-07 01:11:20 <JackRabiit> OH WOW!!! LOL what i said was WAAAAY dumber than i tought it was
425 2011-03-07 01:11:23 <JackRabiit> Holy crap!
426 2011-03-07 01:11:39 <JackRabiit> THaaaaaaNKYOU Cpt.OBVIOUS
427 2011-03-07 01:11:45 <xelister> aleays a plessure
428 2011-03-07 01:11:46 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
429 2011-03-07 01:12:07 <doublec> The MM should keep mining. it makes sense, strengthens the network and stops someone else from coming in and taking 40% of the network power.
430 2011-03-07 01:12:22 <JackRabiit> Actually
431 2011-03-07 01:12:25 <JackRabiit> As mean as it is
432 2011-03-07 01:12:26 <JackRabiit> I agree
433 2011-03-07 01:12:37 <molecular> as long as he's <50% it's all fine
434 2011-03-07 01:13:21 <[Noodles]> convince as many people as possible to keep mining to avoid that
435 2011-03-07 01:13:38 <xelister> what if then all chinese people agree to unite
436 2011-03-07 01:13:40 <molecular> right: keep mining, people
437 2011-03-07 01:13:55 <xelister> or ar 'asked to' by their 'friendly' almost as USA government
438 2011-03-07 01:14:26 <[Tycho]> ;;seen theymos
439 2011-03-07 01:14:27 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 hours, 25 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <theymos> If he always uses that IP, then maybe he's just a Tor node himself.
440 2011-03-07 01:14:28 <molecular> as ArtForz put it once: above 50% you're basically competing against yourself
441 2011-03-07 01:14:57 <molecular> or was it "effectively", I think
442 2011-03-07 01:16:19 jamesdrew has quit (Quit: Page closed)
443 2011-03-07 01:16:47 <mekel> if u type artforz in the interative google page, it adds bitcoin to the end
444 2011-03-07 01:16:54 <molecular> maybe that 100Ghash/s drop a couple of days ago was MM doing an abort for some reason
445 2011-03-07 01:16:56 <mekel> interactive*
446 2011-03-07 01:17:15 <[Tycho]> Actually i think that combined coins cannot be separated.
447 2011-03-07 01:17:27 <xelister> [Tycho]: all is fully tracable
448 2011-03-07 01:17:41 <xelister> [Tycho]: we need to invest e.g. into BtcFn to resolved this (and also add mixing services there)
449 2011-03-07 01:17:44 <[Tycho]> All, but you don't know, which ones.
450 2011-03-07 01:18:01 <molecular> sipa, how often are your speed charts updated?
451 2011-03-07 01:18:19 <xelister> [Tycho]: really it is very easy to trace by default.
452 2011-03-07 01:18:45 <xelister> [Tycho]: google freenet on forums. bitcoin over freenet proposes a transport as par tof solution. Still mixing services would help
453 2011-03-07 01:18:46 <sipa> molecular: every hour
454 2011-03-07 01:19:15 <mekel> lawl
455 2011-03-07 01:19:20 <mekel> artforz has his own wiki entry
456 2011-03-07 01:20:54 <[Tycho]> xelister, how exactly ?
457 2011-03-07 01:21:22 jercos has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
458 2011-03-07 01:22:16 <larsig> is there a list of what mining networks are available and what hashrate % they contribute?
459 2011-03-07 01:22:45 <sipa> "mining networks" ?
460 2011-03-07 01:22:50 <[Tycho]> larsig, yes, in wiki.
461 2011-03-07 01:23:00 <[Tycho]> He is talking about pools, i suppose.
462 2011-03-07 01:23:07 <larsig> yes
463 2011-03-07 01:23:37 <[Tycho]> I think that there are only one with open registration and it's mine :)
464 2011-03-07 01:23:58 <[Tycho]> Bitpenny is working too, but registration is not needed :)
465 2011-03-07 01:24:04 <slush> [Tycho]: afaik bitpenny is back in the game, too
466 2011-03-07 01:24:28 <[Tycho]> Yes, i said it.
467 2011-03-07 01:24:41 <slush> you was faster :)
468 2011-03-07 01:25:06 <larsig> okay
469 2011-03-07 01:25:10 <larsig> i think maybe that it would be a good idea to encourage people to join the pools in order to maintain fair competition
470 2011-03-07 01:27:19 <slush> ;;bc,stats
471 2011-03-07 01:27:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112407 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 488 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 1 minute, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77302.04751619
472 2011-03-07 01:28:08 jercos has joined
473 2011-03-07 01:28:43 <doublec> larsig: I list them in my old pool page: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
474 2011-03-07 01:29:22 <doublec> which is currently the #1 google hit for 'bitcoin pool' for me
475 2011-03-07 01:29:35 <doublec> If only I could monetize that!
476 2011-03-07 01:30:50 <larsig> im sure you could
477 2011-03-07 01:31:36 <larsig> are you guys familiar with automatic payments with bitcoin? i am thinking about using the rpc interface to log transactions to my database, but i have some issues. some transactions have several payments for the same tx-id, and it makes it complicated for my system to recognize new transactions
478 2011-03-07 01:31:37 <slush> http://bitcoinpool.org/
479 2011-03-07 01:31:43 <slush> do you know this site?
480 2011-03-07 01:32:31 <slush> lol, looks like the fairuser's pool
481 2011-03-07 01:32:38 <doublec> slush: no, haven't seen that one
482 2011-03-07 01:33:20 JackRabiit has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
483 2011-03-07 01:33:42 <[Tycho]> Wow, hidden unknown pool !
484 2011-03-07 01:33:52 <[Tycho]> What a find.
485 2011-03-07 01:34:26 <slush> no, geebus & fairuser are two well known figures :)
486 2011-03-07 01:34:47 da2ce7 has joined
487 2011-03-07 01:34:56 <[Tycho]> But i see this pool for the first time.
488 2011-03-07 01:35:10 <doublec> I added it to my list
489 2011-03-07 01:35:33 <doublec> fairuser was fairly good at criticising pool operators for not being fair
490 2011-03-07 01:35:41 <[Tycho]> Not really fast, but they have some design and pictures on site :)
491 2011-03-07 01:36:06 <slush> doublec: fairuser was wrong almost all the time
492 2011-03-07 01:36:07 <[Tycho]> Join DeepBit, we have cookies ! :)
493 2011-03-07 01:36:22 <doublec> slush: yep
494 2011-03-07 01:36:42 <doublec> [Tycho]: for 1 btc I'll put you at the top of my list ;)
495 2011-03-07 01:36:49 <slush> lol
496 2011-03-07 01:36:51 * doublec knew there was a way to monetize it
497 2011-03-07 01:37:07 <slush> currently tycho does not need ad
498 2011-03-07 01:37:09 <doublec> (I kid, it's ghash sorted)
499 2011-03-07 01:37:16 <slush> he is biggest pool with open registrations
500 2011-03-07 01:39:19 <[Tycho]> Automatically refreshing http://bitcoinpool.org/faq.php is not so funny for readers...
501 2011-03-07 01:40:05 <[Tycho]> Oh, i forgot about SEO. Should have put at least some keyworks on my main page :)
502 2011-03-07 01:40:26 <[Tycho]> *keywords
503 2011-03-07 01:41:07 <doublec> [Tycho]: buy some adworks. "Make money with your computer"
504 2011-03-07 01:41:14 <doublec> s/adworks/adwords
505 2011-03-07 01:41:34 <[Tycho]> I already did with my other pool.
506 2011-03-07 01:41:46 * BurtyB would expect adwords ~= pissing money up a wall
507 2011-03-07 01:41:56 <[Tycho]> Oh, i shouldn't have said that...
508 2011-03-07 01:42:28 <doublec> so you're the compute4cash person!
509 2011-03-07 01:43:39 <doublec> seriously though, I have no idea who did that, but it was a clever idea
510 2011-03-07 01:43:46 <[Tycho]> :)
511 2011-03-07 01:46:29 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
512 2011-03-07 01:47:14 eps has quit (Disconnected by services)
513 2011-03-07 01:47:49 eps1 has joined
514 2011-03-07 01:53:14 phantomcircuit has joined
515 2011-03-07 01:55:31 <subpar> messing with their mod of poclbm - the bitcoinpool.org that is
516 2011-03-07 01:56:06 noagendamarket has joined
517 2011-03-07 01:57:01 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
518 2011-03-07 01:57:01 noagendamarket has joined
519 2011-03-07 02:04:45 PovAddict has joined
520 2011-03-07 02:06:52 MDKing has joined
521 2011-03-07 02:08:24 <phantomcircuit> who runs block explorer?
522 2011-03-07 02:08:48 <[Tycho]> ;;seen theymos
523 2011-03-07 02:08:48 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 hours, 20 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <theymos> If he always uses that IP, then maybe he's just a Tor node himself.
524 2011-03-07 02:08:53 <[Tycho]> He does.
525 2011-03-07 02:09:16 <PovAddict> ;;seen necrodearia
526 2011-03-07 02:09:17 <gribble> necrodearia was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: * necrodearia changes nickname for convenience
527 2011-03-07 02:09:18 <phantomcircuit> it strikes me that he's missing a piece of information for the input of transactions
528 2011-03-07 02:09:20 tcatm_ is now known as tcatm
529 2011-03-07 02:09:32 <PovAddict> are there 3 bots in here? more?
530 2011-03-07 02:09:43 <luke-jr> one I think
531 2011-03-07 02:10:14 <PovAddict> there's gribble, bitbot, BCBot
532 2011-03-07 02:14:07 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
533 2011-03-07 02:14:07 tcatm has joined
534 2011-03-07 02:17:18 <larsig> ;;seen gavinandresen
535 2011-03-07 02:17:18 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/97
536 2011-03-07 02:20:13 jamesw_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
537 2011-03-07 02:28:08 <lfm> ;;seen bitbot
538 2011-03-07 02:28:08 <gribble> bitbot was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 9 hours, 40 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <bitbot> i want to understand Connection refused.
539 2011-03-07 02:28:26 <PovAddict> bitbot: nr
540 2011-03-07 02:28:27 <bitbot> PovAddict: "CurrentBlockCount( <br />\n<b>Warning</b>: file(blocks) [<a href='function.file'>function.file</a>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in <b>/var/www/nullvoid.org/httpdocs/bitcoin/bc.php</b> on line <b>9</b><br />\n<br />\n<b>Warning</b>: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in <b>/var/www/nullvoid.org/httpdocs/bitcoin/bc.php</b> on line <b>10</b><br />\n<br
541 2011-03-07 02:28:28 <bitbot> PovAddict: />\n<b>Warning</b>: fopen(blocks) [<a href='function.fopen'>function.fopen</a>]: failed to open stream: Permission denied in <b>/var/www/nullvoid.org/httpdocs/bitcoin/bc.php</b> on line <b>17</b><br />\n<br />\n<b>Warning</b>: fwrite(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in <b>/var/www/nullvoid.org/httpdocs/bitcoin/bc.php</b> on line <b>18</b><br />\n<br (8 more messages)
542 2011-03-07 02:28:34 <PovAddict> it's broken
543 2011-03-07 02:28:40 <endian7000> ;;seen gribble
544 2011-03-07 02:28:40 <gribble> I have not seen gribble.
545 2011-03-07 02:28:50 <PovAddict> bitbot: seen gribble
546 2011-03-07 02:28:58 <lfm> he has a blind spot
547 2011-03-07 02:29:23 PovAddict has left ("Konversation terminated!")
548 2011-03-07 02:30:01 <endian7000> fun special cases... like http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/downforeveryoneorjustme.com
549 2011-03-07 02:31:39 <doublec> heh, nice
550 2011-03-07 02:36:30 <mizerydearia> Gavin is now president of Bitcoin? from #bc-news: Pres of Bitcoin Gavin Andresen, Posted to WITCOIN!!!, par (Delicious/tag/bitcoin) http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/129/Making-Money--Gavin-Andresen--Ignite-Amherst
551 2011-03-07 02:48:10 <hazek> mizerydearia wtf
552 2011-03-07 02:48:14 <hazek> :)
553 2011-03-07 02:48:22 <mizerydearia> hmm?
554 2011-03-07 02:48:41 <hazek> [03:27] <mizerydearia> Gavin is now president of Bitcoin? from #bc-news: Pres of Bitcoin Gavin Andresen, Posted to WITCOIN!!!, par (Delicious/tag/bitcoin) http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/129/Making-Money--Gavin-Andresen--Ignite-Amherst
555 2011-03-07 02:48:52 <mizerydearia> hazek, what about it?
556 2011-03-07 02:48:58 xg0d has joined
557 2011-03-07 02:49:16 <hazek> what is this about?
558 2011-03-07 02:49:20 <hazek> president of what
559 2011-03-07 02:49:27 <hazek> ? :)
560 2011-03-07 02:49:29 <hazek> who is that person
561 2011-03-07 02:49:38 xg0d has left ()
562 2011-03-07 02:49:39 <mizerydearia> hazek, Ah, you don't know who gavin is?
563 2011-03-07 02:49:56 <hazek> nope I'm still pretty new around her
564 2011-03-07 02:49:57 <hazek> here
565 2011-03-07 02:49:59 <mizerydearia> Check out the vide on front page of bitcoin.org
566 2011-03-07 02:50:04 <mizerydearia> video*
567 2011-03-07 02:50:23 <mizerydearia> Also, he is one of the very few core developers of Bitcoin, after Satoshi's initial lead.
568 2011-03-07 02:50:58 <hazek> ah i see
569 2011-03-07 02:51:08 <hazek> btw where is satoshi
570 2011-03-07 02:51:09 <hazek> or does no one know?
571 2011-03-07 02:51:33 <lfm> satoshi went into hiding back in mid december
572 2011-03-07 02:51:38 discHead has joined
573 2011-03-07 02:51:38 discHead has quit (Changing host)
574 2011-03-07 02:51:38 discHead has joined
575 2011-03-07 02:52:31 * mizerydearia should consider going into hiding at some point.
576 2011-03-07 02:52:58 * mizerydearia curls into a ball and hides face
577 2011-03-07 02:54:06 xg0d has joined
578 2011-03-07 02:54:24 <xg0d> is there room with people that will help me set up gpu mining?
579 2011-03-07 02:54:38 <luke-jr> no
580 2011-03-07 02:54:43 <luke-jr> other than here
581 2011-03-07 02:54:43 <xg0d> bummer
582 2011-03-07 02:54:48 <Kiba> nope
583 2011-03-07 02:54:55 <luke-jr> but really, I don't get why anyone helps with that for free
584 2011-03-07 02:55:07 <luke-jr> since it's effectively helping competition make mining harder :P
585 2011-03-07 02:55:11 <xg0d> i understand
586 2011-03-07 02:55:30 <xg0d> like mining pools dont already do that enough. sheesh
587 2011-03-07 02:55:33 <luke-jr> xg0d: what video card btw?
588 2011-03-07 02:55:59 <xg0d> just a bs ATI Radeon HD 4250
589 2011-03-07 02:56:11 <xg0d> im not expecting much, just something better then 2 years to generate a block lol
590 2011-03-07 02:56:14 <lfm> Maybe we should declare mining full, no new miners needed
591 2011-03-07 02:56:17 <hazek> xg0d check out the forum
592 2011-03-07 02:56:34 <hazek> you should be able to quickly find instructions on how to set it up
593 2011-03-07 02:56:52 <hazek> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3889.0;topicseen
594 2011-03-07 02:56:55 <bitbot> New pool with proportional and pay-per-share reward distribution, ~50 Gh/s
595 2011-03-07 02:56:59 <hazek> one pool example ^^
596 2011-03-07 02:57:30 <xg0d> thanks man =]
597 2011-03-07 02:57:35 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
598 2011-03-07 02:57:57 <lfm> 4250? thats still pretty slow, your cpu might be better
599 2011-03-07 02:58:36 <xg0d> hell i just wanted better odds then never
600 2011-03-07 02:59:04 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 7000
601 2011-03-07 02:59:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 1 year, 4 weeks, 1 day, 18 hours, 32 minutes, and 1 second
602 2011-03-07 02:59:11 <xg0d> lul
603 2011-03-07 02:59:27 <xg0d> and in one years time, that 1 year will be 10 years
604 2011-03-07 02:59:30 <hazek> that's if you mine on your own
605 2011-03-07 02:59:43 <lfm> ;;bc,gen 7000
606 2011-03-07 02:59:44 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 7000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 0.126655307894 BTC per day and 0.0052773044956 BTC per hour.
607 2011-03-07 02:59:46 <OneFixt> ;;pools
608 2011-03-07 02:59:46 <hazek> i get around 0.1 BTC in a mining pool with 4.5MHash/s
609 2011-03-07 02:59:47 <gribble> I do not know about 'pools', but I do know about these similar topics: 'pool'
610 2011-03-07 03:00:03 <OneFixt> ;;pool
611 2011-03-07 03:00:04 <gribble> Mining pools: http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ http://www.bitpenny.com/
612 2011-03-07 03:00:15 <lfm> 12 bitcents a day maybe if you join a pool
613 2011-03-07 03:01:21 <xg0d> i guess mining just isnt in my future
614 2011-03-07 03:01:34 <hazek> is there a page that keeps track of node statistics?
615 2011-03-07 03:01:45 <lfm> the 7000 is for a 4350 tho, I couldnt find a 4250
616 2011-03-07 03:01:58 <xg0d> prob not much better
617 2011-03-07 03:02:02 <xg0d> i mean worse
618 2011-03-07 03:02:18 <xg0d> either way with those odds, generation is impossible.
619 2011-03-07 03:03:13 <xg0d> well, close to. i could get lucky
620 2011-03-07 03:03:14 <doublec> .12 btc a day is better than no btc a day
621 2011-03-07 03:03:20 bitbot has quit (Quit: Ctrl-C at console.)
622 2011-03-07 03:03:30 discHead has quit (Quit:)
623 2011-03-07 03:03:37 <xg0d> but .12 btc wouldnt equal out to the cost of electricity.
624 2011-03-07 03:04:24 <Kiba> ;;last davout
625 2011-03-07 03:04:25 <gribble> (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
626 2011-03-07 03:04:26 <xg0d> its cool with me, just means ill have to buy btc
627 2011-03-07 03:04:36 <Kiba> ;;seen davout
628 2011-03-07 03:04:36 <gribble> davout was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 3 days, 15 hours, 9 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <davout> bbe hasn't been updated to latest client version then
629 2011-03-07 03:05:01 anatoly_l has joined
630 2011-03-07 03:05:14 <doublec> nickserv says davout was last on 1 week 5 days ago
631 2011-03-07 03:05:15 <anatoly_l> ;;bc,stats
632 2011-03-07 03:05:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112425 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 470 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 7 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77442.82731387
633 2011-03-07 03:05:44 <mizerydearia> Kiba, I see you haven't logged in to witcoin in almost a month, but still have a positive balance.
634 2011-03-07 03:06:10 <hazek> is there a page that keeps track of node statistics?
635 2011-03-07 03:06:23 <doublec> hazek: what do you mean by node statistics?
636 2011-03-07 03:06:32 <hazek> how many nodes are there
637 2011-03-07 03:06:36 <hazek> online atm
638 2011-03-07 03:06:45 <doublec> I don't think there's a way to know
639 2011-03-07 03:07:05 <doublec> but bitcoincharts.com and bitcoinwatch.com might be useful
640 2011-03-07 03:07:10 <mizerydearia> You can join #bitcoin on LFNet to get an idea of how many users there are
641 2011-03-07 03:07:12 <hazek> what about this: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml
642 2011-03-07 03:07:20 <doublec> also bitcoinmonitor.com
643 2011-03-07 03:07:22 <mizerydearia> s/users/nodes/
644 2011-03-07 03:07:27 <hazek> i mean i can see the IPs but I'd like to see numbers
645 2011-03-07 03:07:53 <doublec> hazek: that still doesn't show everyone. There are people who don't connect via irc.
646 2011-03-07 03:07:58 <mizerydearia> 2936 in LFNet #bitcoin
647 2011-03-07 03:08:34 <hazek> ah ok
648 2011-03-07 03:08:36 <hazek> ty
649 2011-03-07 03:09:10 larsig has joined
650 2011-03-07 03:10:33 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
651 2011-03-07 03:11:20 <lfm> some of my nodes only connect to my main node, not outside
652 2011-03-07 03:11:39 <doublec> same here
653 2011-03-07 03:16:52 Lethario1 is now known as letharion
654 2011-03-07 03:19:09 theymos has joined
655 2011-03-07 03:20:01 <theymos> phantomcircuit: What info is BBE missing?
656 2011-03-07 03:20:23 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
657 2011-03-07 03:20:24 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8999,"low":0.81,"vol":13757,"buy":0.846,"sell":0.89,"last":0.87}}
658 2011-03-07 03:20:39 <[Tycho]> Hello, theymos.
659 2011-03-07 03:20:55 <[Tycho]> theymos, http://blockexplorer.com/address/1KGXNEv93xtNpzbRCYGZ6kwqgSaVpKDJ4j
660 2011-03-07 03:21:06 endian7000 has quit (Quit: endian7000)
661 2011-03-07 03:24:49 <theymos> Well, I guess I now know why I picked that ordering originally... ;)
662 2011-03-07 03:29:24 <theymos> I just changed it back to "received first" ordering. Maybe I'll combine the balances when there are sends to self.
663 2011-03-07 03:31:07 <MDKing> Interesting headline for the script sig of the genesis block, "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
664 2011-03-07 03:31:31 <phantomcircuit> theymos, sequence # for vin on txs
665 2011-03-07 03:31:53 <[Tycho]> theymos, :))
666 2011-03-07 03:32:41 <theymos> phantomcircuit: That's what I guessed you meant. :) They're always the same, so I don't show them. They will show up in rawtx when there's a non-default one. Once one exists that I can test with, I'll probably add it to the HTML.
667 2011-03-07 03:34:14 <[Tycho]> theymos, can you fix thousands separator again please ? :)
668 2011-03-07 03:34:30 <theymos> What's wrong with a comma?
669 2011-03-07 03:34:38 <[Tycho]> It looks like a comma.
670 2011-03-07 03:35:08 <[Tycho]> Comma is a decimal separator in some regions :)
671 2011-03-07 03:35:21 <[Tycho]> May be it will be better with space or apostrophe.
672 2011-03-07 03:36:25 <theymos> I've never seen an apostrphe used. A regular space is too wide, IMO. Commas are used in the US for thousands separators.
673 2011-03-07 03:36:44 <farzong> sup
674 2011-03-07 03:37:08 <farzong> bitcoin++
675 2011-03-07 03:39:20 <xg0d> soup
676 2011-03-07 03:39:37 <lfm> sup on soup
677 2011-03-07 03:41:30 <farzong> i like lettuce
678 2011-03-07 03:46:16 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
679 2011-03-07 03:47:36 Diablo-D3 has joined
680 2011-03-07 03:48:54 <MDKing> Anyone familiar with the COutPoint class in the bitcoin client code? What's n?
681 2011-03-07 03:49:08 <MDKing> the lack of documentation is killing me
682 2011-03-07 03:49:16 <theymos> Previous tx hash and output index.
683 2011-03-07 03:49:38 <MDKing> Thanks
684 2011-03-07 03:49:39 <theymos> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Dump_format#COutPoint
685 2011-03-07 03:49:46 <dirtyfilthy> it's kind of a pointless class really
686 2011-03-07 03:50:19 <dirtyfilthy> like, why not roll that up into TxOut
687 2011-03-07 03:50:46 Xunie has joined
688 2011-03-07 03:51:03 <lfm> dirtyfilthy: thats in txin. there are typiclly different numbers of txin and txout
689 2011-03-07 03:53:19 <lfm> dirtyfilthy: it could be rolled into txin I spoze
690 2011-03-07 03:56:16 <dirtyfilthy> ah yeah sorry txin
691 2011-03-07 03:57:12 Mephistopheles has quit (Quit: Leaving)
692 2011-03-07 03:57:13 <lfm> It may be done that way for parameter passing so it can be passed in a 32 bit register by value
693 2011-03-07 04:02:37 sabalaba has joined
694 2011-03-07 04:02:45 <luke-jr> theymos: another score for tonal? :P
695 2011-03-07 04:03:01 <theymos> Why?
696 2011-03-07 04:03:51 x6763 has joined
697 2011-03-07 04:04:53 dwdollar has joined
698 2011-03-07 04:04:56 <joe_1> the bitcoin code is enough to make anyone sick
699 2011-03-07 04:05:09 <joe_1> and every object is duplicated for whether it's on the disk or in memory
700 2011-03-07 04:05:25 <joe_1> class
701 2011-03-07 04:05:33 satamusic has joined
702 2011-03-07 04:05:33 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
703 2011-03-07 04:05:33 satamusic has joined
704 2011-03-07 04:05:36 <lfm> joe_1: or on the net
705 2011-03-07 04:05:44 <farzong> #winning
706 2011-03-07 04:05:49 anatoly_l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
707 2011-03-07 04:06:56 <dirtyfilthy> #tigerblood
708 2011-03-07 04:06:58 Keefe is now known as noagendamarket_
709 2011-03-07 04:08:08 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
710 2011-03-07 04:08:14 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
711 2011-03-07 04:08:44 noagendamarket_ is now known as Keefe
712 2011-03-07 04:11:47 <noagendamarket> wtf ?
713 2011-03-07 04:12:10 <lfm> which wtf?
714 2011-03-07 04:12:25 <BurtyB> wtfbbq
715 2011-03-07 04:13:10 <lfm> oh wtf Keefe?
716 2011-03-07 04:13:32 <Keefe> :)
717 2011-03-07 04:13:45 <doublec> don't mind Keefe, noagendamarket. He's just stealing your identity.
718 2011-03-07 04:13:58 <noagendamarket> lol
719 2011-03-07 04:13:58 <Diablo-D3> that implies its worth stealing
720 2011-03-07 04:15:01 <lfm> unless he is just someone who stole Keefe's id
721 2011-03-07 04:15:29 <Keefe> you can check /whois
722 2011-03-07 04:15:56 <Keefe> i was demonstrating something, and picked noagendamarket. i trust he didn't mind too much
723 2011-03-07 04:16:19 <doublec> ;;gpg info keefe
724 2011-03-07 04:16:20 <gribble> Error: No such user registered.
725 2011-03-07 04:16:31 <doublec> ;;gpg info Keefe
726 2011-03-07 04:16:31 <gribble> User 'Keefe', with keyid 8BF5A807212607F0 and fingerprint 13B891C2886F41397B6EE0E58BF5A807212607F0, registered on Sun Mar 6 15:35:17 2011.
727 2011-03-07 04:17:12 <Keefe> was relevant in -otc, in case anyone's wondering
728 2011-03-07 04:17:42 mmarker has joined
729 2011-03-07 04:17:50 <lfm> oic id theft ring running in -otc?
730 2011-03-07 04:18:35 <doublec> there's not enough drama going on in the bitcoin world so we have to make some
731 2011-03-07 04:18:42 * noagendamarket is now schizophrenic
732 2011-03-07 04:18:47 <mmarker> Oh jesus.
733 2011-03-07 04:18:52 <Diablo-D3> that implies you wernt earlier
734 2011-03-07 04:18:57 <mmarker> I step away for a day, and I see the end of the wrold is nigh
735 2011-03-07 04:19:15 <mmarker> Are dogs and cats getting along in #bitcoin?
736 2011-03-07 04:19:17 <Kiba> so
737 2011-03-07 04:19:30 <Kiba> davout got hit by a bus or something similiar to that
738 2011-03-07 04:19:40 <noagendamarket> something like that
739 2011-03-07 04:19:43 <Kiba> curiously
740 2011-03-07 04:19:46 <Diablo-D3> really? same happened to satoshi
741 2011-03-07 04:19:47 <doublec> seized by french authorities perhaps
742 2011-03-07 04:19:58 <noagendamarket> maybe he just met a woman and hes holed up in a hotel room lol
743 2011-03-07 04:20:15 <doublec> maybe all of the above
744 2011-03-07 04:20:16 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: he didn't show up after March 1
745 2011-03-07 04:20:24 <Kiba> people are trying to reach him and all
746 2011-03-07 04:20:29 <Diablo-D3> what was davout responsible for?
747 2011-03-07 04:20:40 <doublec> a bitcoin exchange
748 2011-03-07 04:20:45 <noagendamarket> bitcoin central
749 2011-03-07 04:20:48 <Diablo-D3> ahh
750 2011-03-07 04:20:55 <Diablo-D3> what country is he in?
751 2011-03-07 04:20:58 <jgarzik> KalyHost and davout are both in France. Maybe MT took out the competition :)
752 2011-03-07 04:21:05 <doublec> haha
753 2011-03-07 04:21:17 BitterTe1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
754 2011-03-07 04:21:25 <noagendamarket> lawl
755 2011-03-07 04:21:44 Bth8 has joined
756 2011-03-07 04:21:45 <mmarker> jgarzik: Oh, I'm fixing the pull request. Seems like F14's yasm is good as well
757 2011-03-07 04:22:03 * noagendamarket hopes nanotube isnt in france
758 2011-03-07 04:22:04 <jgarzik> mmarker: cool
759 2011-03-07 04:22:09 <Kiba> jgarzik: MT is in Japan
760 2011-03-07 04:22:23 <noagendamarket> he is
761 2011-03-07 04:22:33 <jgarzik> Kiba: KalyHost is in France
762 2011-03-07 04:22:35 * Kiba wishes he have job
763 2011-03-07 04:22:37 <Kiba> err
764 2011-03-07 04:22:39 <noagendamarket> his server might be in france tho
765 2011-03-07 04:22:42 <Kiba> freelancing gigs
766 2011-03-07 04:22:48 <jgarzik> noagendamarket: it is
767 2011-03-07 04:23:01 * jgarzik is renting from KalyHost
768 2011-03-07 04:23:08 Cusipzzz has joined
769 2011-03-07 04:23:12 <noagendamarket> he probably doesnt want his server in the same country he is in
770 2011-03-07 04:23:13 * Kiba is also renting from KalyHOst
771 2011-03-07 04:23:59 <Kiba> I don't know how to make my VPS ready to host rails app
772 2011-03-07 04:24:03 <Kiba> :/
773 2011-03-07 04:24:06 <Kiba> so it's kinda scary
774 2011-03-07 04:24:09 <Diablo-D3> step one: install rails
775 2011-03-07 04:24:22 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: I installed gems, rails, and all
776 2011-03-07 04:24:26 <Cusipzzz> what happened to bitcoin central ?? just saw some posts, i'm out of the loop
777 2011-03-07 04:24:30 <Diablo-D3> so whats the issue?
778 2011-03-07 04:24:41 <doublec> withdrawals aren't working
779 2011-03-07 04:24:49 <doublec> and davout isn't responding
780 2011-03-07 04:24:56 <mmarker> yea, I can deploy rails, and I'm an idiot.
781 2011-03-07 04:24:56 xg0d has left ()
782 2011-03-07 04:25:01 <Cusipzzz> ugh
783 2011-03-07 04:25:15 <Kiba> I have to install rails server and all
784 2011-03-07 04:25:17 <Diablo-D3> rails, although written in that god awful language of ruby, is supposed to be easy to use
785 2011-03-07 04:25:17 <Kiba> err
786 2011-03-07 04:25:25 <Kiba> I have to install nginx and all
787 2011-03-07 04:25:31 <mmarker> Kiba: nginx is simple
788 2011-03-07 04:25:33 <Diablo-D3> well, nginx or cherokee
789 2011-03-07 04:25:47 <mmarker> If you just want to vhost and proxy, it's stupid simple
790 2011-03-07 04:26:12 <mmarker> If you want to use that crazy ruby mod for nginx, you're on your own. I never got that to work
791 2011-03-07 04:26:13 * Kiba never made a VPS ready to host a rails app before..that's all
792 2011-03-07 04:26:26 <Kiba> so passenger isn't neccesary?
793 2011-03-07 04:26:31 <Diablo-D3> you're supposed to use rails as a fastcgi app, no/
794 2011-03-07 04:26:39 <mmarker> I use thin and rails + nginx
795 2011-03-07 04:26:57 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: there's about a bazillion ways to do it
796 2011-03-07 04:27:04 <Diablo-D3> well thats how I'd do it
797 2011-03-07 04:27:15 <Diablo-D3> no needing to fuck with the httpd directly, just set up usual fastcgi mojo
798 2011-03-07 04:27:19 <mmarker> fastcgi works, thin is pretty good.
799 2011-03-07 04:27:41 <mmarker> If you use mongrel, you need to be shot in the head, apparently.
800 2011-03-07 04:27:50 <Diablo-D3> lol mongrel
801 2011-03-07 04:28:13 <Aciid> is VPS sufficient enough to run rails apps?
802 2011-03-07 04:28:15 <mmarker> Or, if you're really lazy, use Heroku
803 2011-03-07 04:28:32 <Diablo-D3> I dont get why anyone would write an httpd in anything but C or Java
804 2011-03-07 04:28:56 <Kiba> maybe you're just an oddball, Diablo-D3
805 2011-03-07 04:29:19 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I like my software fast
806 2011-03-07 04:30:18 <Diablo-D3> those goddamned python and ruby freaks need to quit reinventing shit though
807 2011-03-07 04:30:25 <Diablo-D3> python: for those too lazy to learn how to program
808 2011-03-07 04:30:33 <Diablo-D3> ruby: for those too lazy to learn how to program in python
809 2011-03-07 04:30:54 Mephistopheles has joined
810 2011-03-07 04:30:58 Mephistopheles has quit (Client Quit)
811 2011-03-07 04:34:38 <mmarker> grr, automake needs to be shot in the head
812 2011-03-07 04:35:39 <Diablo-D3> anyone who says that is probably doing it wrong
813 2011-03-07 04:35:42 <Keefe> Cusipzzz: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4228.0
814 2011-03-07 04:35:44 <Diablo-D3> automake is rather straight forwards.
815 2011-03-07 04:35:57 <mmarker> Well, let me rephrase it
816 2011-03-07 04:36:16 <Cusipzzz> Keefe: just read that.. seems to have turned from random tech problems to no contact? ugh.
817 2011-03-07 04:36:21 <mmarker> autoconf and automake are fine, unless you want to do anything that isn't defined in their nice little macro set.
818 2011-03-07 04:36:50 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: automake doesnt have a "macro set"
819 2011-03-07 04:36:58 <Diablo-D3> and writing autoconf tests is damned easy, assuming you even need one
820 2011-03-07 04:37:15 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, fastcgi hasn't been recommended for like 6 months
821 2011-03-07 04:37:18 <Keefe> does davout have any cred besides the fact he's posted like 800+ times on the forum?
822 2011-03-07 04:37:24 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: uh, you fail.
823 2011-03-07 04:37:25 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, practically ancient in asshat time
824 2011-03-07 04:37:31 <Keefe> oh and shared the source for BC
825 2011-03-07 04:37:32 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: fastcgi is a years old standard.
826 2011-03-07 04:37:34 <MDKing> Diablo-D3, you forgot to comment on php programmers. You know the type that like their functions like do_stuff_now_or_die
827 2011-03-07 04:37:41 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: I do, but it's the slight dependence on variables that isn't that well documented which is what always irks me
828 2011-03-07 04:37:56 <Diablo-D3> MDKing: yeah, I dont know why php faggots justDontUseBumpyShit
829 2011-03-07 04:38:07 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, uh what does that have to do with anything?
830 2011-03-07 04:38:10 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: all of them are documented
831 2011-03-07 04:38:10 <Cusipzzz> Keefe: no idea...not good
832 2011-03-07 04:38:17 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds)
833 2011-03-07 04:38:19 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: [11:21:42] <Diablo-D3> those goddamned python and ruby freaks need to quit reinventing shit though
834 2011-03-07 04:39:00 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the current suggested deployment mechanism is multiple single threaded http servers sitting behind a load balancer
835 2011-03-07 04:39:09 <phantomcircuit> which is actually a lot older than fastcgi
836 2011-03-07 04:39:11 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: ... but thats retarded.
837 2011-03-07 04:39:12 <Diablo-D3> and
838 2011-03-07 04:39:17 <Diablo-D3> thats what ngnix basically is
839 2011-03-07 04:39:36 <Diablo-D3> nonblock rotates between all the fastcgi instances
840 2011-03-07 04:39:37 <phantomcircuit> yeah i use nginx as my load balancer
841 2011-03-07 04:40:10 <Kiba> oh boy, sore throat make it difficult for me to eat
842 2011-03-07 04:40:34 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: drink a soda first
843 2011-03-07 04:40:39 <Kiba> why?
844 2011-03-07 04:40:40 <Diablo-D3> it'll hurt like hell, but it numbs it a bit
845 2011-03-07 04:42:18 <Diablo-D3> I assume the fizzyness does it
846 2011-03-07 04:42:21 <Diablo-D3> either that, or the caffiene
847 2011-03-07 04:42:26 <mmarker> Fizzyness.
848 2011-03-07 04:42:41 <mmarker> The bubbles help numb the nerves by beating them to death
849 2011-03-07 04:42:51 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but caffiene is dark magic
850 2011-03-07 04:42:58 <mmarker> Also, the cold temperature of said soda also works
851 2011-03-07 04:43:54 * Kiba comtemplate becoming a self-sustaining entity
852 2011-03-07 04:44:04 <mmarker> caffeine is a low grade stimulant. Now if you want something to really numb the pain, phenol!
853 2011-03-07 04:44:11 <mmarker> Kiba: you're 6 amino acids short.
854 2011-03-07 04:44:14 <Kiba> the bitcoin economy is too small to support a full-time freelancing
855 2011-03-07 04:44:16 <MDKing> Kiba, try straight lemon or lime juice. I find that helps to numb things
856 2011-03-07 04:44:19 <Kiba> contemplate*
857 2011-03-07 04:44:30 <mmarker> Oh, you mean money.
858 2011-03-07 04:45:11 dissipate has joined
859 2011-03-07 04:45:11 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
860 2011-03-07 04:45:11 dissipate has joined
861 2011-03-07 04:46:27 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, you need some lidocaine
862 2011-03-07 04:46:45 <mmarker> ahh, the caine family
863 2011-03-07 04:47:01 <phantomcircuit> also
864 2011-03-07 04:47:21 <phantomcircuit> how is getblocks even remotely useful
865 2011-03-07 04:47:36 <luke-jr> to implement block explorer :P
866 2011-03-07 04:47:50 <Diablo-D3> lidocaine, xylocaine, prilocaine, sugar cane....
867 2011-03-07 04:48:10 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you have to already know the last block AND the most likely termination points
868 2011-03-07 04:49:12 <phantomcircuit> well whatever im just going to walk the chain backwards one block at a time
869 2011-03-07 04:50:07 <mmarker> Or, everyone's favorite: methyl (1R,2R,3S,5S)-3- (benzoyloxy)-8-methyl-8-azabicyclo[3.2.1] octane-2-carboxylate
870 2011-03-07 04:50:17 <mmarker> Make it the salt for even more fun!
871 2011-03-07 04:50:42 <Diablo-D3> cocaine?
872 2011-03-07 04:51:01 <mmarker> Yup. You make the salt, and you get the freebase version
873 2011-03-07 04:51:08 Bth8 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
874 2011-03-07 04:51:28 <Diablo-D3> no, Pacman, drugs are bad!
875 2011-03-07 04:51:45 <mmarker> Look, what to you think chemists do when they get bored.
876 2011-03-07 04:51:48 <mmarker> 1 of 2 things
877 2011-03-07 04:51:51 <mmarker> Blow shit up
878 2011-03-07 04:51:53 <mmarker> Make shit
879 2011-03-07 04:52:10 <Diablo-D3> if they're lucky, both at the same time
880 2011-03-07 04:52:28 <Aciid> cheap-o AC for deepbit http://i.imgur.com/Y8Uod.jpg
881 2011-03-07 04:52:33 <Aciid> *bitcoin
882 2011-03-07 04:52:45 <[Tycho]> :)))
883 2011-03-07 04:52:46 <Aciid> jesus i get confused from the terms
884 2011-03-07 04:52:51 <Aciid> haha
885 2011-03-07 04:52:57 <mmarker> Heh. True. I dont want to know the number of times the bomb squad was called into the chem labs at my grad work
886 2011-03-07 04:52:59 <Diablo-D3> ....
887 2011-03-07 04:53:06 <Diablo-D3> Aciid: you are so doing it wrong.
888 2011-03-07 04:53:08 <Aciid> and no that's not mine.
889 2011-03-07 04:53:32 <Aciid> I was trying to find a picture of AC tubing from a window. and found that one
890 2011-03-07 04:54:38 <phantomcircuit> lolololol
891 2011-03-07 04:54:48 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, eh i dont know
892 2011-03-07 04:54:54 <phantomcircuit> if you've got them why not?
893 2011-03-07 04:55:12 <mmarker> Those fans...so small compared to the room size
894 2011-03-07 04:55:27 <phantomcircuit> mmarker, shhh
895 2011-03-07 04:58:11 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
896 2011-03-07 04:58:20 <Aciid> mmarker: but its cheap ;P
897 2011-03-07 04:58:53 <mmarker> I had an engineering professor tell me something once, on the topic of "partial credit"
898 2011-03-07 04:59:38 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
899 2011-03-07 05:00:01 <mmarker> "You think the engineer of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge was told by his boss "well, it worked for 1/2 the time, a mostly good job""
900 2011-03-07 05:00:14 <mmarker> That photo kind of falls under that premise
901 2011-03-07 05:00:53 <bk128> :)
902 2011-03-07 05:01:22 <bk128> what's the combined cfm from those fans vs a normal 1.5' box fan?
903 2011-03-07 05:01:45 <Kiba> hmm
904 2011-03-07 05:01:49 <Kiba> good night
905 2011-03-07 05:01:53 <bk128> night
906 2011-03-07 05:01:55 jgarzik has joined
907 2011-03-07 05:02:11 <bk128> you might get more airflow through with just a screen instead of those fans and plywood :)
908 2011-03-07 05:02:50 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
909 2011-03-07 05:02:50 jgarzik has joined
910 2011-03-07 05:02:58 <mmarker> bk128: also depends on the temperature gradient. You could be getting some decent diffusion via buoyancy changes.
911 2011-03-07 05:03:05 amiller has joined
912 2011-03-07 05:03:13 <mmarker> Course, that also means outside is cold
913 2011-03-07 05:03:53 <mmarker> jgarzik: new pull request in. Let me know if there's more changes.
914 2011-03-07 05:03:59 <mmarker> Need to drag the wife to bed
915 2011-03-07 05:04:26 MDKing has quit (Quit: Leaving)
916 2011-03-07 05:06:31 <mekel> formaldahyde works great on my wife
917 2011-03-07 05:06:40 <mmarker> Urm.
918 2011-03-07 05:06:49 <mmarker> Formaldehyde?
919 2011-03-07 05:07:00 <mmarker> You probably mean chloroform
920 2011-03-07 05:07:01 <dirtyfilthy> hahaha
921 2011-03-07 05:07:03 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
922 2011-03-07 05:07:16 <mmarker> Formaldehyde is a bit more... permanent.
923 2011-03-07 05:07:17 <dirtyfilthy> no i think he meant formaldehyde
924 2011-03-07 05:07:34 <x6763> ;;bc,stats
925 2011-03-07 05:07:34 <mmarker> Well, it's got a nice odor.
926 2011-03-07 05:07:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112441 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 454 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 21 hours, 16 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77487.53784256
927 2011-03-07 05:07:42 <mmarker> and it burns nicely in the lungs
928 2011-03-07 05:07:51 <mmarker> <-- inhaled his fair share
929 2011-03-07 05:08:09 <dirtyfilthy> gets you so high you'll think you're in the hospital
930 2011-03-07 05:10:15 <mmarker> Wow, you people want to snort that? Go right ahead. More ethers for me!
931 2011-03-07 05:13:13 kisom_dev has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
932 2011-03-07 05:13:24 mmarker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
933 2011-03-07 05:14:31 citiz3n has quit ()
934 2011-03-07 05:22:03 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 77487
935 2011-03-07 05:22:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77487, is 2 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes, and 4 seconds
936 2011-03-07 05:22:17 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
937 2011-03-07 05:22:21 <luke-jr> I need to resolve my pool issues soon :/
938 2011-03-07 05:24:47 kisom_dev has joined
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940 2011-03-07 05:25:28 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
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947 2011-03-07 05:32:49 Guest18995 is now known as kisom_
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950 2011-03-07 05:39:35 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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955 2011-03-07 05:57:51 <jgarzik> impressive. mmarker's patch takes cpuminer on this intel machine from 2.2 Mhash/sec per thread to 3.8 Mhash/sec
956 2011-03-07 05:58:00 <jgarzik> (ufasoft's asm)
957 2011-03-07 06:00:10 <doublec> wow, nice
958 2011-03-07 06:06:03 <dazoe> how many free tranctions are suppposed to be in a block?
959 2011-03-07 06:08:40 <nanotube> ooh nice. i wonder if a similar efficiency gain is possible on the gpu. :)
960 2011-03-07 06:09:12 <dazoe> ok a block was just generated with 0 tranactions in it
961 2011-03-07 06:10:20 knotwork_ is now known as knotwork
962 2011-03-07 06:11:56 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
963 2011-03-07 06:14:04 <nanotube> dazoe: i don't see it on blockexplorer...
964 2011-03-07 06:14:25 knotwork has quit (Quit: Leaving)
965 2011-03-07 06:15:33 Spenvo has joined
966 2011-03-07 06:18:38 <dazoe> sorry, 1 transaction....
967 2011-03-07 06:19:21 <dazoe> i see many block with only 1 transation and i've been waiting for the past 3 blocks for a confermation
968 2011-03-07 06:20:27 <tcatm> are you waiting for 0.05 BTC from the faucet?
969 2011-03-07 06:21:30 TheAncientGoat has joined
970 2011-03-07 06:22:30 knotwork has joined
971 2011-03-07 06:22:35 knotwork has quit (Changing host)
972 2011-03-07 06:22:35 knotwork has joined
973 2011-03-07 06:23:27 <dazoe> no, i sent 0.05 to someone else
974 2011-03-07 06:24:32 <dazoe> i was watching bitcoin monitor and there is/was a lot of transations then a block was generated with just the one transation and no other transations... seems like a flaw.
975 2011-03-07 06:25:42 <Tril> bitcoin monitor shows unconfirmed transactions though
976 2011-03-07 06:26:47 <Tril> dazoe: are you connected to any peers?
977 2011-03-07 06:27:10 <dazoe> yeah.... of course.
978 2011-03-07 06:28:44 <tcatm> bitcoincharts shows unconfirmed transactions with their hash (and there are none currently)
979 2011-03-07 06:30:54 <dazoe> in the monitor channel i saw a lot of transation that haddn't mad it into a block and then i saw a block was generated look at the block on block explorer and saw a long list of transations but none were mine.....
980 2011-03-07 06:31:48 Daviey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
981 2011-03-07 06:32:15 eps1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
982 2011-03-07 06:32:21 <dazoe> then there were more transations about 10-15 or so... and then a nother new block... check it and it had only the one transation... i guess what i'm getting at is what is to stop someone from generating blocks with only the 1 transation to pay them self...
983 2011-03-07 06:32:37 <tcatm> do you know the txid?
984 2011-03-07 06:32:50 asdfasd has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
985 2011-03-07 06:33:07 asdfasd has joined
986 2011-03-07 06:33:40 eps1 has joined
987 2011-03-07 06:34:13 <dazoe> of my transation? it was confirmed a while ago.
988 2011-03-07 06:35:23 Daviey has joined
989 2011-03-07 06:35:30 <tcatm> oh I thought you were looking for a unconfirmed tx
990 2011-03-07 06:37:56 <dazoe> no i was wondering why a block was generated with only 1 tx where there were unconfirmed tx still waiting...
991 2011-03-07 06:39:00 <tcatm> optimistic explanation: the miner didn't get the transactions
992 2011-03-07 06:39:18 <phantomcircuit> more likely explanation: the miner didn't give a fuck about your transactions
993 2011-03-07 06:40:07 <dazoe> phantomcircuit: nice language...
994 2011-03-07 06:40:24 <phantomcircuit> what
995 2011-03-07 06:40:31 <phantomcircuit> we're all adults here
996 2011-03-07 06:40:33 <phantomcircuit> i think
997 2011-03-07 06:42:15 <dazoe> so how about i start a botnet(for the cpu power) and run my own pool and generating block that only do the 50 btc to my self... that would probbaly cause some problems, IE having to wat over a fucking hour for a confirmation...
998 2011-03-07 06:43:04 <tcatm> that works until you can't send your own coins anymore
999 2011-03-07 06:43:20 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, could whitelist his own txs
1000 2011-03-07 06:43:20 <dissipate> haha
1001 2011-03-07 06:43:24 <dazoe> lol
1002 2011-03-07 06:44:00 <dazoe> and generating a block with only one tx would be easier to generate cause it's smaller
1003 2011-03-07 06:44:10 <tcatm> when someone understands the code well enough to whitelist their own tx they're probably wise enough to include other peoples tx so bitcoin as a whole gains value
1004 2011-03-07 06:44:13 <phantomcircuit> dazoe, uh no, not at all
1005 2011-03-07 06:44:41 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, possibly they've shorted BTC some how
1006 2011-03-07 06:45:03 <[Tycho]> There is already patch for whitelisting
1007 2011-03-07 06:45:32 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], yeah but it doesn't block everybody elses :P
1008 2011-03-07 06:46:16 <nanotube> dazoe: there's no gain to generating a block without tx. that's what the merkle tree is for.
1009 2011-03-07 06:47:34 <dazoe> the only gain to making block with no tx would be to hurt bitcoin
1010 2011-03-07 06:47:52 neptunepink has joined
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1012 2011-03-07 06:47:54 purpleposeidon has quit (Excess Flood)
1013 2011-03-07 06:48:04 <phantomcircuit> dazoe, kind of my point
1014 2011-03-07 06:48:19 <phantomcircuit> if you short BTC you could make money by knocking it offline
1015 2011-03-07 06:49:38 <Silverpike> phantom: but in order to profit from shorting, the market has to be trading
1016 2011-03-07 06:49:54 <Silverpike> you can't profit from an unavailable network
1017 2011-03-07 06:50:18 subpar has joined
1018 2011-03-07 06:50:45 <phantomcircuit> Silverpike, no but if trading became very difficult the value of a BTC would drop
1019 2011-03-07 06:50:51 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: there are probably easier ways to disrupt the network, and cheaper, than bringing on a shitload of hashing power and not including tx.
1020 2011-03-07 06:50:59 <phantomcircuit> you could then purchase BTC, and then stop the DoS attack
1021 2011-03-07 06:51:13 <phantomcircuit> nanotube, oh no doubt indeed i can think of more than a few....
1022 2011-03-07 06:51:21 subpar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1023 2011-03-07 06:51:26 <Silverpike> disruption of liquidity would not necessarily cause btc to drop
1024 2011-03-07 06:51:32 <Silverpike> it would just increase the spread
1025 2011-03-07 06:51:58 <Silverpike> trust me i know this from trading currencies
1026 2011-03-07 06:52:22 <Silverpike> the main influence on price motion is an imbalance between buy & sell demand
1027 2011-03-07 06:52:42 <Silverpike> if you simply suspend all demand at once, it won't create an imalance
1028 2011-03-07 06:52:51 subpar has joined
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1031 2011-03-07 06:53:46 <phantomcircuit> Silverpike, you cant buy much with BTC other than fiat currencies
1032 2011-03-07 06:53:51 <Silverpike> true
1033 2011-03-07 06:53:55 <phantomcircuit> Silverpike, thus if you cant do that it has practically no value
1034 2011-03-07 06:53:57 <Silverpike> but the same it true for gold
1035 2011-03-07 06:54:09 <Silverpike> generally you can't buy useful things in gold
1036 2011-03-07 06:54:23 <phantomcircuit> sure and if you could make it impossible to trade gold for currency you would short it
1037 2011-03-07 06:54:24 <Silverpike> at least before the zombie apocalypse comes :p
1038 2011-03-07 06:54:27 <phantomcircuit> but good luck with that :P
1039 2011-03-07 06:55:06 sethsethseth has joined
1040 2011-03-07 06:55:23 <phantomcircuit> Silverpike, so indeed if you could stop all transactions BTC would likely plummet
1041 2011-03-07 06:55:37 <phantomcircuit> want to see?
1042 2011-03-07 06:55:38 <phantomcircuit> xD
1043 2011-03-07 06:58:03 <OneFixt> phantomcircuit: it's not going to plummet - you'd have to sell it to someone for it to plummet =)
1044 2011-03-07 06:58:13 <OneFixt> phantomcircuit: and you can't do that if transactions stop
1045 2011-03-07 06:58:49 wood_ has joined
1046 2011-03-07 06:58:50 <phantomcircuit> OneFixt, i bet you that if i made it impossible to trade for a week, at the end of the week nobody would have any buy orders in
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1052 2011-03-07 06:59:36 <phantomcircuit> OneFixt, also because of the way the exchanges work you would actually be able to exchange btc for usd for a little bit
1053 2011-03-07 06:59:37 <Silverpike> as soon as the market came online, the open price would be determined by the total pending orders
1054 2011-03-07 06:59:38 <OneFixt> phantomcircuit: yeah, if you basically break the system then price goes to 0
1055 2011-03-07 06:59:51 <OneFixt> true
1056 2011-03-07 07:00:11 <phantomcircuit> Silverpike, yeah but really who is going to want to buy something that was just worthless for a week?
1057 2011-03-07 07:00:12 <Silverpike> so yeah if you had a lot of sell orders built up, they would push the price down
1058 2011-03-07 07:00:16 <OneFixt> but the only factor here is whether people lose confidence completely or not
1059 2011-03-07 07:00:26 nanotube has quit (Disconnected by services)
1060 2011-03-07 07:00:34 t4ls0 has joined
1061 2011-03-07 07:00:37 <phantomcircuit> OneFixt, well yeah that's kind of the point
1062 2011-03-07 07:00:43 <Blitzboom> imo they would
1063 2011-03-07 07:00:49 jb55 has joined
1064 2011-03-07 07:00:51 <phantomcircuit> see now im tempted to try it (without the shorting of course)
1065 2011-03-07 07:00:59 <OneFixt> remember that little story when napolon sort of won but didn't?
1066 2011-03-07 07:01:00 Sirius_ has joined
1067 2011-03-07 07:01:01 therealnanotube is now known as nanotube
1068 2011-03-07 07:01:03 <OneFixt> people lost confidence then, too
1069 2011-03-07 07:01:03 gribble has joined
1070 2011-03-07 07:01:05 <Silverpike> so if your point is that we should make sure bitcoin is secure, then yes :)
1071 2011-03-07 07:01:06 afed_ has joined
1072 2011-03-07 07:01:08 <OneFixt> napoleon*
1073 2011-03-07 07:01:15 <Silverpike> i don't know what we are arguing about here :/
1074 2011-03-07 07:01:51 <phantomcircuit> neither do i
1075 2011-03-07 07:03:12 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1087 2011-03-07 07:18:55 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-69-208-131-10.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Netsniper
1088 2011-03-07 07:35:32 <Spenvo> how real is the threat that the chain of blocks could be spoofed?
1089 2011-03-07 07:36:22 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki weaknesses
1090 2011-03-07 07:36:22 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses | Feb 12, 2011 ... Weaknesses. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search .... Retrieved from "https ://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses". Category: Technical ...
1091 2011-03-07 07:40:28 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
1092 2011-03-07 07:40:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112476 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 419 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 16 hours, 44 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78067.83168226
1093 2011-03-07 07:40:35 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
1094 2011-03-07 07:40:35 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8999,"low":0.81,"vol":9203,"buy":0.846,"sell":0.865,"last":0.865}}
1095 2011-03-07 07:41:54 dissipate has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1096 2011-03-07 07:43:31 <Spenvo> ty
1097 2011-03-07 07:44:06 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1098 2011-03-07 07:49:38 hwolf has joined
1099 2011-03-07 07:50:00 doublec has joined
1100 2011-03-07 07:50:22 dissipate has joined
1101 2011-03-07 07:50:22 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
1102 2011-03-07 07:50:22 dissipate has joined
1103 2011-03-07 07:54:02 <phantomcircuit> Spenvo, effectively nill
1104 2011-03-07 07:54:03 <phantomcircuit> nil
1105 2011-03-07 07:54:51 subpar_ has joined
1106 2011-03-07 07:55:46 subpar__ has joined
1107 2011-03-07 07:57:23 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1108 2011-03-07 07:59:35 subpar_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1109 2011-03-07 08:00:33 <Aciid> harhar its been profitable at deep proportional
1110 2011-03-07 08:03:26 ybit has joined
1111 2011-03-07 08:04:21 <ybit> there was a pdf that someone recommended to me
1112 2011-03-07 08:04:32 <ybit> anyone happen to recall a pdf that explained the bitcoin system
1113 2011-03-07 08:04:43 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1114 2011-03-07 08:05:16 <tcatm> ybit: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
1115 2011-03-07 08:05:18 <ybit> it was large, but after starting to read a 700 page pdf document, 30 pages seems like nothing
1116 2011-03-07 08:05:23 <ybit> excellent, thanks tcatm
1117 2011-03-07 08:06:28 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1118 2011-03-07 08:09:10 subpar_ has joined
1119 2011-03-07 08:10:00 sethsethseth_ has joined
1120 2011-03-07 08:10:00 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1121 2011-03-07 08:11:08 subpar__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1122 2011-03-07 08:30:59 tower is now known as again
1123 2011-03-07 08:33:16 <jgarzik> dwdollar: 500 internal server error, when creating a new order
1124 2011-03-07 08:33:52 <jgarzik> dwdollar: also, when creating a new order, (a) it would help to show the currency pair next to the amount, and (b) I miss the JavaScript calculator that updated the total instantly
1125 2011-03-07 08:38:41 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1126 2011-03-07 08:39:12 <doublec> jgarzik: that new sse code is definitely fast - just built and tried it
1127 2011-03-07 08:39:36 <jgarzik> it's slower on my AMD, faster on my Intel
1128 2011-03-07 08:39:43 <doublec> yeah this is on an intel
1129 2011-03-07 08:40:03 <jgarzik> on AMD, goes from 2.5 Mhps (4way) to 2.1 Mhps (sse2_64)
1130 2011-03-07 08:40:07 <doublec> interesting how each thread has a lower hash rate the more threads are added
1131 2011-03-07 08:40:20 <doublec> so with one thread I get 3.5 Mhps
1132 2011-03-07 08:40:25 <doublec> with two threads I get 2.8 Mhps
1133 2011-03-07 08:40:26 <doublec> etc
1134 2011-03-07 08:40:27 echelon has joined
1135 2011-03-07 08:40:29 <doublec> (each)
1136 2011-03-07 08:40:35 <tcatm> hyperthreading disabled?
1137 2011-03-07 08:40:35 <jgarzik> doublec: how many cores and HT threads do you have?
1138 2011-03-07 08:40:42 <doublec> (on a four core system, no hyperthreading)
1139 2011-03-07 08:41:02 <doublec> the combined total is still faster. but not linear.
1140 2011-03-07 08:41:28 <jgarzik> strange
1141 2011-03-07 08:42:03 <doublec> I see the same if i run as multiple processes instead of threads. Must be some contention over the SSE2 stuff or something.
1142 2011-03-07 08:55:30 larsig has joined
1143 2011-03-07 09:10:22 sethsethseth_ has left ()
1144 2011-03-07 09:20:36 <nathan7> jercos: There you go.
1145 2011-03-07 09:20:42 <nathan7> jercos: When am I receiving your payment?
1146 2011-03-07 09:22:28 <jercos> :p
1147 2011-03-07 09:22:40 <jercos> When I get my product :p
1148 2011-03-07 09:31:27 Bth8 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1149 2011-03-07 09:33:20 <nathan7> jercos: You did!
1150 2011-03-07 09:34:05 <jercos> No no, the *other* product.
1151 2011-03-07 09:36:38 JFK911_ has joined
1152 2011-03-07 09:36:45 JFK911 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1153 2011-03-07 09:43:29 Prof_BiG_BanG has quit (Changing host)
1154 2011-03-07 09:43:29 Prof_BiG_BanG has joined
1155 2011-03-07 10:02:42 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1156 2011-03-07 10:02:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112495 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 400 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 14 hours, 46 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78175.82700813
1157 2011-03-07 10:14:11 <sipa> ;;seen gavinandreesen
1158 2011-03-07 10:14:12 <gribble> I have not seen gavinandreesen.
1159 2011-03-07 10:14:22 <sipa> ;;seen gavinandresen
1160 2011-03-07 10:14:22 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/97
1161 2011-03-07 10:17:15 TD has joined
1162 2011-03-07 10:24:18 <dazoe> how hard would it bo to port bitcoin to C#?
1163 2011-03-07 10:24:56 <Diablo-D3> why do you support software patents, dazoe?
1164 2011-03-07 10:25:40 <TheAncientGoat> Diablo-D3: Didn't you like, write a Java miner?
1165 2011-03-07 10:25:49 <jercos> dazoe: port? difficult/impossible. reimplement? if you have a firm grip on the encryption involved, maybe a couple-day project to get a working prototype.
1166 2011-03-07 10:26:33 <Diablo-D3> TheAncientGoat: I did.
1167 2011-03-07 10:27:12 <Diablo-D3> dazoe: please do not code free software in C#
1168 2011-03-07 10:27:20 <sipa> i think the encryption is the easiest part, since it's been done a few times already
1169 2011-03-07 10:27:31 <Diablo-D3> microsoft has already promised they will sue anyone they dont like using the C# patent pool
1170 2011-03-07 10:28:02 <TheAncientGoat> Diablo-D3: Oracle has already sued people using their Java patent pool :P
1171 2011-03-07 10:28:11 <Diablo-D3> TheAncientGoat: oracle did, sun didnt
1172 2011-03-07 10:28:23 <Diablo-D3> and I want oracle to diaf too
1173 2011-03-07 10:28:34 <Diablo-D3> oracle is trying to attack free software, and Im tired of it
1174 2011-03-07 10:28:51 <Diablo-D3> java is already GPL, and Im going to be damned if Im going to let them undo that
1175 2011-03-07 10:29:03 <TheAncientGoat> Er, sure, but that kind of means that free software shouldn't be written in Java either
1176 2011-03-07 10:29:13 <TheAncientGoat> The patents aren't going to go poof :P
1177 2011-03-07 10:29:27 <jercos> IMO, they can *keep* Java and C#, we should focus on *real* VM languages, like Limbo/Dis.
1178 2011-03-07 10:29:30 <Diablo-D3> TheAncientGoat: no, it just shouldnt depend on java 7 features
1179 2011-03-07 10:29:45 <Diablo-D3> or any jcp that apache, redhat, or any other free software group didnt vote on
1180 2011-03-07 10:29:59 <Diablo-D3> and yes, they MIGHT go poof
1181 2011-03-07 10:30:06 <Diablo-D3> Google wants Oracle to go away, and they might get their way
1182 2011-03-07 10:31:31 <TheAncientGoat> I don't know, Google isn't omnipotent...
1183 2011-03-07 10:32:26 <Diablo-D3> no, but Oracle cant get away using invalid patents
1184 2011-03-07 10:32:37 <Diablo-D3> if Google can torpedo half of Oracle's java patents, we'd all be better off
1185 2011-03-07 10:49:34 <TD> TheAncientGoat: but we are omniscient ;)
1186 2011-03-07 10:49:51 <TD> googlebot is watching you ....
1187 2011-03-07 10:54:39 <Blitzboom> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4236.0#new
1188 2011-03-07 10:54:45 <Blitzboom> google is developing for bitcoin?
1189 2011-03-07 11:01:51 <nathan7> :O
1190 2011-03-07 11:02:39 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1191 2011-03-07 11:03:30 <tcatm> from source: Copyright 2011 Google Inc.
1192 2011-03-07 11:03:33 <sipa> woah
1193 2011-03-07 11:03:48 <sipa> google = mystery miner?
1194 2011-03-07 11:04:03 <Blitzboom> wow, nice
1195 2011-03-07 11:04:10 <Blitzboom> this should be worth some news
1196 2011-03-07 11:04:50 <tcatm> can the forum post be submitted to slashdot?
1197 2011-03-07 11:05:00 noagendamarket has joined
1198 2011-03-07 11:05:05 <Blitzboom> that would be awesome
1199 2011-03-07 11:05:10 <TD> i'd prefer you don't right now.
1200 2011-03-07 11:05:52 <Blitzboom> TD = [mike]?
1201 2011-03-07 11:05:55 <TD> yes
1202 2011-03-07 11:05:59 <Blitzboom> ok
1203 2011-03-07 11:06:10 <TD> maybe later, when it's more complete or something
1204 2011-03-07 11:06:28 <TD> google gives us a lot of freedom to work on things that we think might be useful for the company
1205 2011-03-07 11:06:33 <TD> don't read too much into it
1206 2011-03-07 11:07:10 <sipa> it's your personal project within google?
1207 2011-03-07 11:07:13 <TD> yes
1208 2011-03-07 11:07:20 <sipa> nice :)
1209 2011-03-07 11:07:52 <noagendamarket> googlecoins ?
1210 2011-03-07 11:07:55 <noagendamarket> lol
1211 2011-03-07 11:08:00 <TD> no comment ;)
1212 2011-03-07 11:09:36 <noagendamarket> well I hope they dont be evil and destroy bitcoin :)
1213 2011-03-07 11:09:44 <TD> you know us
1214 2011-03-07 11:09:50 <TD> google: not being evil since 1998
1215 2011-03-07 11:09:54 <noagendamarket> lawl
1216 2011-03-07 11:11:26 <BurtyB> java is evil and you love that :p
1217 2011-03-07 11:12:17 <noagendamarket> I love doughnuts too but that doesnt mean they are good for you :)
1218 2011-03-07 11:12:20 <TD> mmm, gotta admit, i don't particularly "love" java.
1219 2011-03-07 11:12:30 <TD> it's the lingua franca of the software business though. hard to deny that.
1220 2011-03-07 11:12:41 <noagendamarket> java pisses me off
1221 2011-03-07 11:13:00 <noagendamarket> every time I have to open windowsa it wants to update
1222 2011-03-07 11:13:45 <noagendamarket> I love java when Im using linux lol
1223 2011-03-07 11:15:05 <noagendamarket> the real evil empire is facebook
1224 2011-03-07 11:15:27 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
1225 2011-03-07 11:15:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112506 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 389 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 14 hours, 8 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78109.00520132
1226 2011-03-07 11:16:36 <Aciid> 07.03.2011 07:19:210h 00m252 0.19246032
1227 2011-03-07 11:16:42 <Aciid> wth?
1228 2011-03-07 11:16:50 <sipa> ?
1229 2011-03-07 11:17:27 <Aciid> found in 00minutes
1230 2011-03-07 11:17:28 <Aciid> =D
1231 2011-03-07 11:17:34 <Aciid> total shares 252?
1232 2011-03-07 11:17:37 <Aciid> jesus.
1233 2011-03-07 11:18:53 <Spenvo> damn! google getting in on it! that's a powerful ally to have!
1234 2011-03-07 11:19:32 <Blitzboom> google and bitcoin vs. facebook and the fed
1235 2011-03-07 11:20:20 <noagendamarket> heh
1236 2011-03-07 11:21:32 <afed_> might be time to turn the machines off soon
1237 2011-03-07 11:21:52 <Aciid> soon google > 50% total
1238 2011-03-07 11:22:04 <afed_> i don't think i'm going to be profitable at that diff
1239 2011-03-07 11:25:09 <Spenvo> well, it was going to stop being profitable as some point anyway, right?
1240 2011-03-07 11:25:40 <dazoe> what's this about google?
1241 2011-03-07 11:25:42 <afed_> true
1242 2011-03-07 11:26:21 <Spenvo> they released a java implementation of bitcoin on their website
1243 2011-03-07 11:26:35 <dazoe> what on code.google.com?
1244 2011-03-07 11:26:44 <Aciid> http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/
1245 2011-03-07 11:28:07 <dazoe> that doesn't mean google is behind it...
1246 2011-03-07 11:28:32 <Blitzboom> [11:54:57] <tcatm> from source: Copyright 2011 Google Inc.
1247 2011-03-07 11:28:34 <tcatm> dazoe: open any .java file and read the copyright ;)
1248 2011-03-07 11:28:37 <Blitzboom> also, see the email
1249 2011-03-07 11:28:46 <[Tycho]> Wow, another google bitcoiner :)
1250 2011-03-07 11:29:24 <Spenvo> google's mining?!
1251 2011-03-07 11:29:34 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1252 2011-03-07 11:29:49 <noagendamarket> that explains the 150 ghash lol
1253 2011-03-07 11:29:50 <Spenvo> thought that was a joke, wow
1254 2011-03-07 11:29:59 <Spenvo> holy crap
1255 2011-03-07 11:30:05 <Blitzboom> google servers?
1256 2011-03-07 11:31:41 <jercos> ghash now stands for google hash.
1257 2011-03-07 11:31:43 <Aciid> jeez google we don't need help, we want the coins to ourselves
1258 2011-03-07 11:32:08 <Aciid> some google employee mining with farms for themselves
1259 2011-03-07 11:32:09 <Aciid> =D
1260 2011-03-07 11:32:12 <Blitzboom> iâm glad weâll soon have terahash, then
1261 2011-03-07 11:32:32 <Aciid> [Tycho]: have you checked out are any mining hosts coming from google yet?
1262 2011-03-07 11:32:38 <Spenvo> I'm just glad it wasn't the Peoples Republic of China that started throwing cpus at bitcoins
1263 2011-03-07 11:32:41 <[Tycho]> Yes,
1264 2011-03-07 11:32:48 <[Tycho]> they do.
1265 2011-03-07 11:32:52 <Aciid> oh god.
1266 2011-03-07 11:32:53 <Blitzboom> wow
1267 2011-03-07 11:32:59 <jrabbit> Spenvo: why not?
1268 2011-03-07 11:33:07 <Blitzboom> how many ghash/s, [Tycho]?
1269 2011-03-07 11:33:08 <jrabbit> Spenvo: PRC is playign the long game.
1270 2011-03-07 11:33:15 <noagendamarket> I hope they accept bitcoin through google checkout
1271 2011-03-07 11:33:21 <Spenvo> haha
1272 2011-03-07 11:33:25 <noagendamarket> :)
1273 2011-03-07 11:33:27 <jrabbit> Spenvo: see chain of pearls, green tech etc
1274 2011-03-07 11:33:43 <noagendamarket> kill paypal with fire
1275 2011-03-07 11:34:09 <Spenvo> true jrabbit. noagendamarket: That would be huge! Kill facebook credits too
1276 2011-03-07 11:34:15 <jrabbit> SOmalia is still fighting? >_>
1277 2011-03-07 11:35:19 <Spenvo> wow, this accelerates the whole bitcoin story quite a bit
1278 2011-03-07 11:35:41 <noagendamarket> might be a good time to start buying bitcoins :)
1279 2011-03-07 11:35:53 <noagendamarket> google = $10 btc
1280 2011-03-07 11:35:58 <Blitzboom> BUY BUY BUY
1281 2011-03-07 11:36:00 <dazoe> hmm, looks like it's David Hearnden's (google employee) project
1282 2011-03-07 11:36:04 <Blitzboom> we need some headlines
1283 2011-03-07 11:36:17 <[Tycho]> How much $$ can i get for used XFX 5970 ?
1284 2011-03-07 11:36:25 <Spenvo> it's on bitcoinbulletin, i'll bring it to dhowell's attention too
1285 2011-03-07 11:36:29 <noagendamarket> its a personal project isnt it ?
1286 2011-03-07 11:37:08 <dazoe> noagendamarket: most likely
1287 2011-03-07 11:37:28 <tcatm> Spenvo: you run bitcoinbulletin?
1288 2011-03-07 11:37:35 <Spenvo> yep
1289 2011-03-07 11:38:06 <Spenvo> if you have an idea for another trade stat for me to track, ill try my best
1290 2011-03-07 11:38:10 <tcatm> rewrite the article to make clear that it's only a 30% project of a google employer
1291 2011-03-07 11:38:41 subpar_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1292 2011-03-07 11:38:44 <Spenvo> I havent written an article, just a sticky post w/link
1293 2011-03-07 11:38:58 subpar_ has joined
1294 2011-03-07 11:39:01 <Spenvo> but yes i will
1295 2011-03-07 11:39:05 subpar_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1296 2011-03-07 11:39:12 subpar has joined
1297 2011-03-07 11:39:13 subpar has quit (Changing host)
1298 2011-03-07 11:39:13 subpar has joined
1299 2011-03-07 11:39:20 <Spenvo> aren't they called 20% projects?
1300 2011-03-07 11:39:21 RazielZ has joined
1301 2011-03-07 11:39:26 <noagendamarket> yes
1302 2011-03-07 11:43:28 joe_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1303 2011-03-07 11:45:23 <subpar> ;;bc,stats
1304 2011-03-07 11:45:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112507 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 388 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77992.69557637
1305 2011-03-07 11:52:00 <Spenvo> later nerds, i'm out
1306 2011-03-07 11:52:29 subpar has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1307 2011-03-07 11:55:11 <TD> google is not mining
1308 2011-03-07 11:56:02 <[Tycho]> Well, some Google Apps clients do. And not only clients.
1309 2011-03-07 11:56:25 <TD> what makes you think google is mining?
1310 2011-03-07 11:57:11 <[Tycho]> My pool's log.
1311 2011-03-07 11:57:26 <TD> which IPs?
1312 2011-03-07 11:57:28 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1313 2011-03-07 11:57:40 <TD> 74.125.57.36?
1314 2011-03-07 11:57:41 <[Tycho]> Not yet ready to disclose.
1315 2011-03-07 11:57:57 <TD> ok
1316 2011-03-07 11:58:01 <eps1> this is where bitcoins go all corporate and become uncool
1317 2011-03-07 11:58:33 <noagendamarket> I doubt it
1318 2011-03-07 11:58:50 <sipa> it's a fools hope that something that's so intricately associated with money, will not see commercial involvement
1319 2011-03-07 11:58:54 <[Tycho]> But there is at least one in 74.125.57.*
1320 2011-03-07 11:59:00 <sipa> but that's not necessarily a bad thing
1321 2011-03-07 11:59:15 <[Tycho]> And some in nearby subnets
1322 2011-03-07 11:59:18 <noagendamarket> it could just be testing Tycho
1323 2011-03-07 11:59:31 <[Tycho]> May be.
1324 2011-03-07 11:59:33 <eps1> commercial is fine, corporate sucks
1325 2011-03-07 11:59:35 <TD> [Tycho]: clients that are actually submitting shares, or just connected peers?
1326 2011-03-07 11:59:51 <eps1> actually i have been meaning to write a post on the forums that is related to this
1327 2011-03-07 11:59:54 <noagendamarket> It would be better if they accepted bitcoin through google checkout imo
1328 2011-03-07 11:59:58 <[Tycho]> Submitting shares from multiple IPs.
1329 2011-03-07 12:00:06 <eps1> about where i see bitcoin actually be used in the short to medium term
1330 2011-03-07 12:00:43 <noagendamarket> then write an article about all the paypal issues bitcoin has lol
1331 2011-03-07 12:01:02 <eps1> what are the issues?
1332 2011-03-07 12:01:08 <[Tycho]> Well, i don't care, people can use their time how they want.
1333 2011-03-07 12:01:51 <[Tycho]> Google may be almost not involved if someone rented Google Apps servers for this.
1334 2011-03-07 12:02:05 <[Tycho]> It's ineffective anyway.
1335 2011-03-07 12:02:05 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
1336 2011-03-07 12:02:06 <gribble> 112510
1337 2011-03-07 12:02:50 <noagendamarket> if facebook did it they would create their own blcok chain
1338 2011-03-07 12:02:50 <noagendamarket> :)
1339 2011-03-07 12:03:22 <eps1> and let you comment on it and like transactions
1340 2011-03-07 12:03:33 <noagendamarket> haha
1341 2011-03-07 12:03:56 <noagendamarket> your mum would be placed in a block
1342 2011-03-07 12:04:06 <[Tycho]> There is also some clients with tens of CPU connections from one organization IP. (Not Google)
1343 2011-03-07 12:04:39 <eps1> goldman sachs?
1344 2011-03-07 12:04:45 <eps1> please tell me it isn't them
1345 2011-03-07 12:04:56 <[Tycho]> Don't know what is this :)
1346 2011-03-07 12:05:34 <noagendamarket> lawl
1347 2011-03-07 12:05:42 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1348 2011-03-07 12:06:02 <[Tycho]> All those mentioned are CPU miners that can't make any sense.
1349 2011-03-07 12:06:14 <[Tycho]> So it's just a curiosity.
1350 2011-03-07 12:06:36 molecular has joined
1351 2011-03-07 12:07:06 <[Tycho]> Some people even tried renting Amazon't teslas.
1352 2011-03-07 12:07:30 <[Tycho]> A bit faster but pointless too.
1353 2011-03-07 12:07:37 <slush> [Tycho]: how many IPs from that organization?
1354 2011-03-07 12:07:46 <slush> [Tycho]: I also had one user with 1000+ workers
1355 2011-03-07 12:08:14 <noagendamarket> botnet ?
1356 2011-03-07 12:09:12 <Aciid> [Tycho]: Fuck yeah 22MH/s ~125W .. cpu mining... pointless
1357 2011-03-07 12:09:47 <[Tycho]> slush, can't remember. Sometimes more that tens of requests per second from single IP. I e-mailed this user and asked what he is doing there, but he said that he just have many miners behind a NAT so i let him continue.
1358 2011-03-07 12:10:03 mekel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1359 2011-03-07 12:10:48 <Aciid> soon scriptkiddies stop defacing websites, but plant RPCminers instead
1360 2011-03-07 12:10:52 <Aciid> =D
1361 2011-03-07 12:11:45 <[Tycho]> Cheap ATI card can do 10 times more with same power requirments :)
1362 2011-03-07 12:12:11 <Aciid> yes
1363 2011-03-07 12:13:11 <[Tycho]> I don't like international delivery prices... If they were cheap, i would make money selling ATI cards :)
1364 2011-03-07 12:13:40 <Aciid> use a network of peers?
1365 2011-03-07 12:13:53 <Aciid> as man-in-the-middle
1366 2011-03-07 12:14:06 <[Tycho]> Just selling hardware :)
1367 2011-03-07 12:29:04 Bth8 has joined
1368 2011-03-07 12:32:16 doublec_ has joined
1369 2011-03-07 12:33:22 altamic has joined
1370 2011-03-07 12:44:14 <doublec_> "For discussion of the BitcoinJ library from Google" um ,what? http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoinj?pli=1
1371 2011-03-07 12:44:35 <doublec_> That's just referring to it as being hosted by code.google.com, right?
1372 2011-03-07 12:44:49 <sipa> doublec_: it's something TD developed while working for google, i think
1373 2011-03-07 12:44:52 <jercos> Nope, it's partially google's work
1374 2011-03-07 12:45:01 <doublec_> oh, nice
1375 2011-03-07 12:45:03 <jercos> Or rather, a google employee's work.
1376 2011-03-07 12:45:07 <doublec_> 20% time work?
1377 2011-03-07 12:45:10 <sipa> i suppose
1378 2011-03-07 12:45:11 <noagendamarket> yep
1379 2011-03-07 12:45:51 satamusic has joined
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1381 2011-03-07 12:45:51 satamusic has joined
1382 2011-03-07 12:46:16 <doublec_> nifty
1383 2011-03-07 12:47:03 <noagendamarket> now I really will get an android phone
1384 2011-03-07 12:47:12 bitcoiner has joined
1385 2011-03-07 12:47:12 <Blitzboom> haha
1386 2011-03-07 12:47:23 <TD> doublec: yes it's funded by google. i will clarify that in the forum later.
1387 2011-03-07 12:48:13 <noagendamarket> thanks TD
1388 2011-03-07 12:48:14 <doublec_> TD, you are my hero. That is all.
1389 2011-03-07 12:48:30 <doublec_> or is that my bottle of whiskey speaking. not sure.
1390 2011-03-07 12:48:34 <noagendamarket> lol google fanboy
1391 2011-03-07 12:48:36 <doublec_> either way, thanks.
1392 2011-03-07 12:48:41 <noagendamarket> well I cant talk
1393 2011-03-07 12:50:54 <doublec_> noagendamarket, I work for mozilla. we're either in competition with google, or work with each other. maybe both. I get confused by the rumours.
1394 2011-03-07 12:51:38 <doublec_> but both options probably meet the definition of fanboy
1395 2011-03-07 12:51:46 <noagendamarket> cool. I love firefox
1396 2011-03-07 12:51:54 <doublec_> yay, me too :)
1397 2011-03-07 12:52:07 <Blitzboom> when will we be able to donate BTC to mozilla? :P
1398 2011-03-07 12:52:07 <Aciid> I love "Out of memory close the following programs" too window
1399 2011-03-07 12:52:13 <TD> doublec_: sweet, what do you work on exactly?
1400 2011-03-07 12:52:14 <noagendamarket> lol
1401 2011-03-07 12:52:26 <doublec_> TD, I work on the HTML 5 video and audio implementations
1402 2011-03-07 12:52:34 <TD> ^5
1403 2011-03-07 12:52:45 <doublec_> I wrote the original Ogg backend and the parts of the WebM backend
1404 2011-03-07 12:53:13 <Aciid> how does it feel like when you know that millions use your code?
1405 2011-03-07 12:53:17 * da2ce7 loves firefox
1406 2011-03-07 12:53:19 <doublec_> Now we have a team of 4 or so who work on it from New Zealand
1407 2011-03-07 12:53:48 <doublec_> Aciid, scary :)
1408 2011-03-07 12:54:03 <da2ce7> that is reall cool
1409 2011-03-07 12:54:13 <doublec_> Blitzboom, I wish! BTC donations to the Mozilla Foundation would be great.
1410 2011-03-07 12:54:32 <Blitzboom> hehe
1411 2011-03-07 12:55:16 <noagendamarket> now we need a bitcoin foundation :)
1412 2011-03-07 12:55:43 RazielZ has quit ()
1413 2011-03-07 12:56:10 <da2ce7> maybe like the kde e.V.
1414 2011-03-07 12:56:16 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1415 2011-03-07 12:57:05 <da2ce7> the mozila foundation was the old community that moved when mozila went commercal
1416 2011-03-07 13:01:03 <TD> doublec_: whereabouts in the world are you?
1417 2011-03-07 13:01:15 <doublec_> TD, I'm based in New Zealand
1418 2011-03-07 13:01:30 <doublec_> TD, Are you in Mountain View?
1419 2011-03-07 13:01:34 <TD> switzerland
1420 2011-03-07 13:01:40 <doublec_> Ah, nice
1421 2011-03-07 13:01:51 <TD> i'm not that much of a night owl :-)
1422 2011-03-07 13:01:52 <bitcoiner> ;;bc,stats
1423 2011-03-07 13:01:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112518 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 377 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 12 hours, 58 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77991.27930414
1424 2011-03-07 13:02:05 <doublec_> I asked because I'll be in MV beginning of next month - it'd have been good to catch up
1425 2011-03-07 13:02:24 <TD> maybe some other time
1426 2011-03-07 13:02:27 <doublec_> yep
1427 2011-03-07 13:03:40 <da2ce7> the next diff is very good... need to keep up this rate!
1428 2011-03-07 13:04:23 <tcatm> where's the USD/hashrate/difficulty graph again?
1429 2011-03-07 13:04:45 <TD> doublec_: actually it might be easier if you just edit your post, thinking about it. that way the thread can stay about the code i guess
1430 2011-03-07 13:04:54 <doublec_> TD, ok will do
1431 2011-03-07 13:04:57 <TD> ta
1432 2011-03-07 13:06:37 <TheAncientGoat> Hmm, I wonder if Goog has ideas for Bitcoin on Android
1433 2011-03-07 13:07:31 <doublec_> TD, I submitted it to /r/bitcoin - would you refer I edited out the 'google' part?
1434 2011-03-07 13:07:41 <TD> what is /r/bitcoin ?
1435 2011-03-07 13:07:50 <doublec_> http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin
1436 2011-03-07 13:08:06 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1437 2011-03-07 13:08:10 <TD> no, it's fine. this is an 'official' google project.
1438 2011-03-07 13:08:15 <doublec_> ok, cool
1439 2011-03-07 13:08:19 <TD> it's just not a big team with big strategic implications or anything
1440 2011-03-07 13:08:25 <TD> at least ..... not yet >:-)
1441 2011-03-07 13:08:30 <doublec_> :)
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1445 2011-03-07 13:11:28 JFK911_ is now known as JFK911
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1447 2011-03-07 13:12:55 <TD> i should note though, that there are quite a lot of people @google who know about bitcoin. there was a big discussion of it in the summer of 2009
1448 2011-03-07 13:13:47 <doublec_> interesting
1449 2011-03-07 13:13:51 <Blitzboom> interesting. whatâs the iattitude?
1450 2011-03-07 13:13:52 <tcatm> 2009? bitcoin was mostly unknown back then..
1451 2011-03-07 13:14:03 <doublec_> I've had a few ask at Mozilla but no great interest
1452 2011-03-07 13:14:52 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1453 2011-03-07 13:15:27 <noagendamarket> nfc would be good to use bitcoin with
1454 2011-03-07 13:15:32 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1455 2011-03-07 13:15:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8999,"low":0.81,"vol":12491,"buy":0.8466,"sell":0.8949,"last":0.8949}}
1456 2011-03-07 13:15:40 <doublec_> noagendamarket, definitely
1457 2011-03-07 13:16:00 <TD> you may observe that the Nexus S is one of the first phones to fully support NFC
1458 2011-03-07 13:16:15 <TD> a few weeks ago we pushed a firmware update that added a more complete set of NFC APIs to Android.
1459 2011-03-07 13:16:41 <doublec_> yes, I saw that
1460 2011-03-07 13:17:50 <da2ce7> nfc + bitcoin = win
1461 2011-03-07 13:18:36 <doublec_> the time to get 1 confirmation would be the main downside
1462 2011-03-07 13:18:53 <doublec_> although small trades might be willing to settle for 0 confirmations
1463 2011-03-07 13:19:18 <TD> with some protocol additions you can verify 0/confirmation transactions as well as the full client can, even if you don't store the block chain
1464 2011-03-07 13:19:42 <doublec_> ok, nice
1465 2011-03-07 13:20:20 mmarker has joined
1466 2011-03-07 13:20:40 <sipa> though you don't know whether the any of the first few blocks that follow will include the transaction
1467 2011-03-07 13:20:45 <sipa> or even get lost fully
1468 2011-03-07 13:20:55 <da2ce7> just by shouting the transactions very loud, and hoping that eveyone learns about the valid transaction first.
1469 2011-03-07 13:20:55 <TD> indeed
1470 2011-03-07 13:21:17 <TD> you won't get better guarantees than what a full node can give you, but you can get as-good-as
1471 2011-03-07 13:21:38 <da2ce7> TD, where is the proof of work?
1472 2011-03-07 13:22:07 <TD> i don't understand the question, sorry. you mean when not storing the block chain ?
1473 2011-03-07 13:22:13 <TD> or in bitcoinj?
1474 2011-03-07 13:22:26 <mmarker> TD: thanks for the release!
1475 2011-03-07 13:22:43 <TD> mmarker: hope it's useful!
1476 2011-03-07 13:23:26 <da2ce7> no, in 0/unconfirmed transactions how can you have 'good-as' security without at least the hedders to the block chain?
1477 2011-03-07 13:23:52 <mmarker> TD: going to look at it tonight if I have time. I just finished up getting the SSE2 code to jgarzik.
1478 2011-03-07 13:24:04 <TD> it's a storage/bandwidth/time tradeoff
1479 2011-03-07 13:24:09 <sipa> easiest i think, is for irl payments to have a smartcard/phone/... that has some private keys (and not necessarily network connection), and when you want to pay, an address + amount is sent to the device (NFC, QR, cardreader, ...), the device builds a transaction that sends that amount to given address using its own private keys, and returns that tx (without sending it) to the cash registry, which verifies and transports it
1480 2011-03-07 13:24:09 <mmarker> now I need to remind myself not to write anything whilist half asleep
1481 2011-03-07 13:24:39 <TD> with only checkpoints/a block locator, with a getmerklebranch message in the protocol you can find the block hash containing the tx inputs, download the header with getheaders, and work backwards to your last checkpoint
1482 2011-03-07 13:25:12 <doublec_> mmarker, I've been using that new SSE2 code - very nice!
1483 2011-03-07 13:25:58 <mmarker> thanks. It's really just a port of the code from that windows miner
1484 2011-03-07 13:26:20 <mmarker> I need to have a think if moving all of the SHA256 calculation into ASM would be more of a speedup
1485 2011-03-07 13:26:47 <da2ce7> sipa, so you make a simple onetime use tripple-entry transaction.
1486 2011-03-07 13:27:19 <sipa> triple entry?
1487 2011-03-07 13:27:33 <da2ce7> ah, like open-transactions.
1488 2011-03-07 13:32:26 sabalaba has joined
1489 2011-03-07 13:35:31 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1490 2011-03-07 13:39:15 * da2ce7 is tired, good night people, thankyou TD for you hard work! :) looking forward to seeing a .net prot.
1491 2011-03-07 13:39:40 <TD> sleep well!
1492 2011-03-07 13:44:42 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1501 2011-03-07 14:15:12 <Aciid> ;;bc,stats
1502 2011-03-07 14:15:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112525 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 370 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 12 hours, 41 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77772.37722729
1503 2011-03-07 14:17:09 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1504 2011-03-07 14:24:47 <Keefe> .Net? woo! i can even help with that :)
1505 2011-03-07 14:31:24 BlueMatt has joined
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1507 2011-03-07 14:34:18 Intruder533 has joined
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1512 2011-03-07 14:50:51 <mmarker> hmm, any word on this large spike in hashing?
1513 2011-03-07 14:51:08 <molecular> a spike is when it goes back down, no?
1514 2011-03-07 14:51:25 <mmarker> molecular: or goes up really fast
1515 2011-03-07 14:51:31 <molecular> the guy doing this was name the mysteryminer yesterday, I think
1516 2011-03-07 14:51:36 <molecular> *named
1517 2011-03-07 14:51:53 <sipa> he is assumed to have close to 50% of the network
1518 2011-03-07 14:51:59 <mmarker> Yea, but the amount of uumph brought to bear on this is...enlightening.
1519 2011-03-07 14:52:44 <molecular> what is "uumph"?
1520 2011-03-07 14:53:00 <EvanR-work> wait what?
1521 2011-03-07 14:53:13 <Diablo-D3> oompz?
1522 2011-03-07 14:53:15 <eps1> hashing power
1523 2011-03-07 14:53:17 <mmarker> uumph = heavy lifting, work, etc.
1524 2011-03-07 14:53:30 <EvanR-work> a guy named mystermine appeared and has almost 50% of the network??
1525 2011-03-07 14:53:35 <eps1> what is this spike?
1526 2011-03-07 14:53:47 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
1527 2011-03-07 14:54:11 <Aciid> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin.png
1528 2011-03-07 14:54:29 <EvanR-work> Aciid: makes it more dramatic ;0
1529 2011-03-07 14:54:31 <EvanR-work> ;)
1530 2011-03-07 14:54:33 <mmarker> Oh well, as long as they aren't trying to game the system, I don't mind too much.
1531 2011-03-07 14:55:02 <molecular> well, in the long run I would really prefer noone has >50%
1532 2011-03-07 14:55:13 <molecular> it might be some banks that dont like bitcoin and want it gone
1533 2011-03-07 14:55:21 <sipa> i prefer no one ever having more than 50%
1534 2011-03-07 14:55:28 <Aciid> don't be alarmed it just some scriptkiddie who has bought an russian botnet
1535 2011-03-07 14:55:32 <molecular> or govt, who know, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's a possibility
1536 2011-03-07 14:55:36 <EvanR-work> s/prefer/that defeats the purpose of bitcoin
1537 2011-03-07 14:55:45 <EvanR-work> if they get more that 50/
1538 2011-03-07 14:55:46 <molecular> that'd have to be quite a botnet
1539 2011-03-07 14:55:47 <mmarker> Yea, but Occam's Razor and all. Aciid's idea seems logical
1540 2011-03-07 14:55:58 <slush> stop preferring and start buying more cards :-P
1541 2011-03-07 14:56:06 <lolcat> How much is a botnet these days?
1542 2011-03-07 14:56:07 <sipa> this spike corresponds to 50000 CPU cores or so
1543 2011-03-07 14:56:12 <mmarker> molecular: well, you just need to throw the code around "is a decent vidcard available, if yes, run this"
1544 2011-03-07 14:56:16 <Aciid> sipa: looks totally legit
1545 2011-03-07 14:56:31 <sipa> i find 350 5970's more credible
1546 2011-03-07 14:56:31 <Aciid> http://www.geeks3d.com/20110212/compute4cash-use-your-gpu-to-make-money-with-opencl/
1547 2011-03-07 14:56:39 <Aciid> well there was "compute4cash" googlead around...
1548 2011-03-07 14:56:43 <OneFixt> It looks more like a corporate cluster to me - goes up and down the same time every week, on the weekends in particular.
1549 2011-03-07 14:56:46 <molecular> mmarker, not so wrong... if you have a botnet anyways... but to rent one for this sole purpose?
1550 2011-03-07 14:56:52 <Aciid> that involved a bitcoin rpc miner...
1551 2011-03-07 14:57:01 <mmarker> molecular: Money laundering? Bored kids.
1552 2011-03-07 14:57:05 <molecular> sipa: me too
1553 2011-03-07 14:57:08 <mmarker> I go with bored kids. It's something I'd do
1554 2011-03-07 14:57:19 <mmarker> err
1555 2011-03-07 14:57:20 <mmarker> wait
1556 2011-03-07 14:57:28 <mmarker> I could see kids doing something like this
1557 2011-03-07 14:57:32 <mmarker> >.>
1558 2011-03-07 14:57:34 <mmarker> <.,
1559 2011-03-07 14:57:59 ThomasV has joined
1560 2011-03-07 14:58:10 <molecular> it doesn't look like the spike wants to stop any time soon
1561 2011-03-07 14:58:21 <ThomasV> "Google is pleased to announce the release of BitCoinJ, an implementation of the BitCoin system in Java." http://twitter.com/gavinandresen
1562 2011-03-07 14:58:23 <OneFixt> i bet it'll drop until thursday/friday
1563 2011-03-07 14:58:34 <mmarker> ThomasV: TD's work
1564 2011-03-07 14:58:36 <ThomasV> what does this have to do with Google ^^
1565 2011-03-07 14:58:45 <mmarker> His free-time Google project IIRC
1566 2011-03-07 14:58:47 <ThomasV> mmarker: huh ?
1567 2011-03-07 14:58:51 <x6763> ThomasV: TD works at google and wrote a bitcoin lib
1568 2011-03-07 14:58:55 <slush> ThomasV: TD is Google man
1569 2011-03-07 14:59:09 <mmarker> ThomasV; TD, the guy who wrote it, works for Google. He worked on it using his Google-sponsered time
1570 2011-03-07 14:59:10 <ThomasV> no, it's not Google
1571 2011-03-07 14:59:14 <molecular> ThomasV, google! krass
1572 2011-03-07 14:59:25 <molecular> maybe the spike is google?
1573 2011-03-07 14:59:30 <ThomasV> I mean, this is worded like a Google announcement
1574 2011-03-07 14:59:35 <sipa> TD said it isn't
1575 2011-03-07 14:59:39 <Blitzboom> ThomasV: >Copyright 2011 Google Inc.
1576 2011-03-07 14:59:41 <ThomasV> "google is pleased to announce"
1577 2011-03-07 14:59:43 <x6763> ThomasV: he had to get permission from google to release the code
1578 2011-03-07 15:00:00 <molecular> uh, it's not coded by google itself, is it?
1579 2011-03-07 15:00:10 MartianW has joined
1580 2011-03-07 15:00:20 <sipa> it's codec by TD, who works for google, and did it while being paid by google
1581 2011-03-07 15:00:20 <mmarker> TD would have to explain, I don't know how Google's 20% time works
1582 2011-03-07 15:00:31 <molecular> on fridays?
1583 2011-03-07 15:00:36 <vrs> it's a small non-strategic google team if i understood correctly
1584 2011-03-07 15:00:42 <ThomasV> I don't think that Google would agree with the statement
1585 2011-03-07 15:00:56 <x6763> ThomasV: you work for google?
1586 2011-03-07 15:01:00 <ThomasV> no I dont
1587 2011-03-07 15:01:07 <Blitzboom> whoâs google, ThomasV?
1588 2011-03-07 15:01:12 <mmarker> Again, TD is the dude who wrote it. I'm pretty sure if you ask him, he knows the specifics...versus speculation.
1589 2011-03-07 15:01:30 <mmarker> But I know people love to speculate, so I ain't gonna stop you.
1590 2011-03-07 15:01:37 <vrs> btw, i think google is actively holding back so that stays under 50%, to not scare away the miners
1591 2011-03-07 15:01:41 <vrs> +it
1592 2011-03-07 15:01:47 <ThomasV> but come on, google is not pleased to announce anything. it's just one google employee
1593 2011-03-07 15:02:00 <sipa> vrs: i doubt google is mining
1594 2011-03-07 15:02:20 <Blitzboom> sipa: deepbit-op said so
1595 2011-03-07 15:02:21 <Aciid> http://www.compute4cash.com/index.php?howitworks why is this fucking company disappeared yet?
1596 2011-03-07 15:02:38 <slush> TD is working on bitcoin client and another guys from Google built 400ghash cluster. Looks like Google is trying to overtake whole network and asimilate us!
1597 2011-03-07 15:02:45 <Aciid> ITS AN CRYSTAL CLEAR BITCOIN WRAPPER FFS
1598 2011-03-07 15:03:03 <Diablo-D3> ....
1599 2011-03-07 15:03:07 <Diablo-D3> fucking google.
1600 2011-03-07 15:03:19 <x6763> google would probably like bitcoin since it can help keep them from dealing with all the various government currencies around the world that are constantly losing value
1601 2011-03-07 15:03:30 <ThomasV> slush: there is a distinction between "guys from Google" and "Google"
1602 2011-03-07 15:03:30 <vrs> google could easily take over the network if they wanted, they are estimated to have >1M servers
1603 2011-03-07 15:03:39 <mmarker> slush: Also, Google has that alien technology from Area 51 that can do SHA256 in negative 12 seoncds while frying an egg and driving a car.
1604 2011-03-07 15:03:43 <Diablo-D3> they dont have 1 million servers
1605 2011-03-07 15:03:49 <x6763> ThomasV: google is comprised of nothing but "guys from google"
1606 2011-03-07 15:03:54 <vrs> afaik they do
1607 2011-03-07 15:03:58 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: they have to drive the car backwards, and the egg is used instead of a cup of tea.
1608 2011-03-07 15:04:16 <ThomasV> x6763: CEO, shareholders do not exist ?
1609 2011-03-07 15:04:23 <Diablo-D3> the CEO is a guy from google
1610 2011-03-07 15:04:34 <Diablo-D3> and most shareholders are people who want to be guys at google
1611 2011-03-07 15:04:34 <x6763> they're all humans that work for google
1612 2011-03-07 15:04:37 <slush> mmarker: so google's 400ghash cluster is just 486DX2 with some alien sha256 algorithm :)
1613 2011-03-07 15:04:40 <x6763> or own google
1614 2011-03-07 15:04:50 <Diablo-D3> google is a strange company that has an actual RDF
1615 2011-03-07 15:05:44 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: actually, GOOG shares annoy me. There's the ones I can buy, and the ones the board has. The standard ones, AFAIK, still don't have great voting rights or dividends. So all you have is a piece of $300 paper.
1616 2011-03-07 15:05:45 <vrs> Diablo-D3: http://www.pandia.com/sew/481-gartner.html http://www.idg.no/bransje/bransjenyheter/article57876.ece source
1617 2011-03-07 15:05:47 <mmarker> Woo!
1618 2011-03-07 15:06:04 <Diablo-D3> vrs: thats not a very good source.
1619 2011-03-07 15:06:17 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: WELCOME TO EVERY COMPANY EVER
1620 2011-03-07 15:06:20 <Diablo-D3> also
1621 2011-03-07 15:06:23 <vrs> Diablo-D3: read it?
1622 2011-03-07 15:06:30 <Diablo-D3> lrn 2 share classes
1623 2011-03-07 15:06:33 <Diablo-D3> vrs: its bs.
1624 2011-03-07 15:06:36 genjix has joined
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1626 2011-03-07 15:06:36 genjix has joined
1627 2011-03-07 15:06:41 <vrs> Diablo-D3: enlighten me, why is it?
1628 2011-03-07 15:06:48 <Diablo-D3> they might have 1 million cpus.
1629 2011-03-07 15:06:54 <Diablo-D3> or even 1 million physical cases.
1630 2011-03-07 15:07:05 <Diablo-D3> they dont have 1 million computers.
1631 2011-03-07 15:07:11 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: theres are worst than most. My big oil investments at least pay me to have the privledge to get ignored.
1632 2011-03-07 15:07:19 <molecular> lol, someone's drying to draw stuff again on bitcoinmonitor.com
1633 2011-03-07 15:07:29 <Diablo-D3> molecular: lol?
1634 2011-03-07 15:07:30 <vrs> Diablo-D3: care to elaborate?
1635 2011-03-07 15:07:40 <Diablo-D3> vrs: I am not going to explain how clusters work to you.
1636 2011-03-07 15:07:50 <vrs> huh
1637 2011-03-07 15:08:04 <vrs> what does that have to do with it?
1638 2011-03-07 15:08:08 <molecular> Diablo-D3, what? i find the idea funny, just hat
1639 2011-03-07 15:08:10 <molecular> *that
1640 2011-03-07 15:08:21 <Diablo-D3> they own several large computing clusters that are _one_ computer.
1641 2011-03-07 15:08:26 <Diablo-D3> one very large computer that eats babies.
1642 2011-03-07 15:08:40 <molecular> for breakfast
1643 2011-03-07 15:08:49 <Diablo-D3> OH BULLSHIT
1644 2011-03-07 15:08:55 <Diablo-D3> âModern servers have several cores, and each of them can be understood as a separate computer. Calculated this way, the number of computers is at least 3 million.â
1645 2011-03-07 15:08:57 <Diablo-D3> fuck you moron
1646 2011-03-07 15:09:02 <ThomasV> if Google, as a company, made a statement about Bitcoin, bitcoin price would rocket well above $1
1647 2011-03-07 15:09:16 <vrs> the article is old Diablo-D3, 2007
1648 2011-03-07 15:09:20 <OneFixt> oh shit, each 5970 is 3200 computers!
1649 2011-03-07 15:09:27 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: no shit
1650 2011-03-07 15:09:31 <OneFixt> </sarcasm>
1651 2011-03-07 15:09:33 <Diablo-D3> Art owns over 9000 computers!
1652 2011-03-07 15:09:41 <TD> what ar you guy talking about?
1653 2011-03-07 15:09:44 <sipa> so, you're arguing about the definition of "computer" in the context of clusters, while the only thing relevant here is how many cpu power they have?
1654 2011-03-07 15:09:53 <TD> no google is not building a giant mining cluster
1655 2011-03-07 15:09:55 <ThomasV> TD: "google is pleased to announce"
1656 2011-03-07 15:10:04 <TD> google is always pleased to announce the release of open source code.
1657 2011-03-07 15:10:06 <Diablo-D3> sipa: no, I said the whole google has a million computers thing is bullshit
1658 2011-03-07 15:10:07 <TD> even when it's been written by one guy.
1659 2011-03-07 15:10:13 <vrs> is mining profitable on normal server hardware atm or is it already too expensive in terms of energy cost?
1660 2011-03-07 15:10:19 <mmarker> TD: Welcome back. We're speculation that your employer is trying to cornet the Bitcoin market, guzzle all the world's natural resources, and you have computing centers that run on the blood of babies.
1661 2011-03-07 15:10:21 <Diablo-D3> vrs: costs too much in energy
1662 2011-03-07 15:10:25 <sipa> vrs: only high-end graphic cards are profitable
1663 2011-03-07 15:10:43 <vrs> okay
1664 2011-03-07 15:10:44 <TD> baby blood is not efficient or scalable enough for our needs. we have to use puppys.
1665 2011-03-07 15:10:51 <x6763> lol
1666 2011-03-07 15:10:55 <sipa> and pigeon-harvesting dogs
1667 2011-03-07 15:11:10 <Diablo-D3> td: not scalable?
1668 2011-03-07 15:11:11 <Diablo-D3> dude
1669 2011-03-07 15:11:12 <Diablo-D3> CHINA
1670 2011-03-07 15:11:30 <TD> ThomasV: would it make you happier if i updated the post to state specifically that the release is not a part of some master plan?
1671 2011-03-07 15:11:34 <Diablo-D3> finally, outsourcing to foreign countries I support
1672 2011-03-07 15:11:36 <mmarker> I put the money on India, though.
1673 2011-03-07 15:11:41 <ThomasV> TD: but do they actually have defined a policy about announcements related to bitcoin ? or is it just the sentence that they use for any code release ?
1674 2011-03-07 15:11:51 <mmarker> That whole sex inequality thing is gonna bite them.
1675 2011-03-07 15:12:04 <ThomasV> TD: it's just confusing, the way it is stated
1676 2011-03-07 15:12:18 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: its illegal to be gay in china
1677 2011-03-07 15:12:19 <TD> it's the sentence i wrote because i work for google, i wrote the code, i got the approval to release it under the google name and i'm pleased it's out there.
1678 2011-03-07 15:12:27 <Diablo-D3> so they're going to have to, like, share women
1679 2011-03-07 15:12:29 <Diablo-D3> or something
1680 2011-03-07 15:12:29 <vrs> Diablo-D3: i do believe google has that much power, but whether it is profitable to use it for mining purposes is another question (and it isn't if i understood correctly)
1681 2011-03-07 15:12:34 <Diablo-D3> I mean, women DO have two holes after all
1682 2011-03-07 15:12:45 <Diablo-D3> vrs: it hasnt been for like a year.
1683 2011-03-07 15:12:45 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: I'm meaning the "not enough women for men" issue
1684 2011-03-07 15:12:57 <mmarker> you'll lose some genetic diversity because of it.
1685 2011-03-07 15:13:01 <TD> google specifically wanted it released under the google name rather than my own, because the company is proud to support open source and we want people to see @google.com addresses write patches.
1686 2011-03-07 15:13:08 <vrs> Diablo-D3: mkay
1687 2011-03-07 15:13:14 <ThomasV> TD: sure, I am pleased too :-)
1688 2011-03-07 15:13:22 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1689 2011-03-07 15:13:24 <vrs> but then who is mystery miner?
1690 2011-03-07 15:13:33 <sipa> vrs: mystery miner is mysterious
1691 2011-03-07 15:13:41 <ThomasV> but it is worded like a Google official announcement
1692 2011-03-07 15:13:44 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: dude, screw genetic diversity
1693 2011-03-07 15:13:54 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: its the "not enough holes for the number of cocks" issue
1694 2011-03-07 15:14:05 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: I take it you've never been to West Virginia.
1695 2011-03-07 15:14:12 <TD> well, think of it as an official announcement then. the release has been signed off by our lawyers, the open source programs office, and so on.
1696 2011-03-07 15:14:13 <mmarker> you REALLY want that. Trust me.
1697 2011-03-07 15:14:18 <TD> google is not like other companies
1698 2011-03-07 15:14:26 <TD> sometimes we do things just because some engineer (or larry) thought it'd be cool
1699 2011-03-07 15:14:33 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: thats more of a Tenn/Arkansas thing
1700 2011-03-07 15:14:37 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
1701 2011-03-07 15:14:41 <TD> so the concept of the company announcing something isn't as well defined as it might be for other corporations
1702 2011-03-07 15:15:15 <ThomasV> TD: that sounds good. but did you spend time explaining bitcoin to other google folks ? to execs ?
1703 2011-03-07 15:15:19 <vrs> more like any online community?
1704 2011-03-07 15:15:48 <Diablo-D3> <most companies> BUY OUR SHIT
1705 2011-03-07 15:15:51 <ThomasV> because afaik you still cannot pay adwords with bitcoins
1706 2011-03-07 15:15:54 <Diablo-D3> <google> hold my beer and watch this
1707 2011-03-07 15:16:03 <TD> ThomasV: yes
1708 2011-03-07 15:16:12 <TD> ThomasV: in fact i'm going to give a formal talk on it on thursday
1709 2011-03-07 15:16:15 <TD> internally
1710 2011-03-07 15:16:20 <sipa> cool
1711 2011-03-07 15:16:23 <ThomasV> TD: great !
1712 2011-03-07 15:16:25 <Blitzboom> let us know how it goes
1713 2011-03-07 15:16:41 <mmarker> TD: you're in the ch office?
1714 2011-03-07 15:16:43 <TD> yes
1715 2011-03-07 15:16:52 <sipa> next week -> total network hash again x10, since then google really starts mining ;)
1716 2011-03-07 15:16:57 * ThomasV is going to buy lots of coins before thursday
1717 2011-03-07 15:16:57 <Blitzboom> ch office = ?
1718 2011-03-07 15:17:11 <mmarker> Google has an office in Switzerland
1719 2011-03-07 15:17:13 <eps1> china i presue
1720 2011-03-07 15:17:18 <Blitzboom> ah, ok
1721 2011-03-07 15:17:19 <sipa> chine is .cn
1722 2011-03-07 15:19:10 <x6763> TD: will it be on google tech talks?
1723 2011-03-07 15:19:16 <TD> no. it's an internal talk only.
1724 2011-03-07 15:19:23 <TD> i'd like to do a talk suitable for public consumption later.
1725 2011-03-07 15:19:29 <x6763> cool
1726 2011-03-07 15:19:35 <x6763> that'd be awesome
1727 2011-03-07 15:19:35 <mmarker> TD: That would rock.
1728 2011-03-07 15:19:37 <TD> gavins video is a good general introduction. a more technical talk is on my todo list.
1729 2011-03-07 15:19:43 <x6763> nice
1730 2011-03-07 15:19:53 <mmarker> Now this means I really need to stop distracting myself and glue this client together
1731 2011-03-07 15:23:52 ThomasV has left ("Leaving")
1732 2011-03-07 15:31:21 dwdollar has left ()
1733 2011-03-07 15:33:17 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1734 2011-03-07 15:34:23 <luke-jr> could someone skeptical on TBC (though no trolls please) give constructive criticism on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Uncommon_Terminology ?
1735 2011-03-07 15:34:32 Lachesis has joined
1736 2011-03-07 15:34:35 <Lachesis> how can i specify the location of berkeley db in the Makefile?
1737 2011-03-07 15:34:49 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1738 2011-03-07 15:34:56 <Lachesis> i need 4.8 installed for gnome shell so i built 4.7 in ~/bdb
1739 2011-03-07 15:36:47 <tcatm> luke-jr: is that actually a _frequently_ asked question?
1740 2011-03-07 15:36:56 <OneFixt> luke-jr: i think it's well-stated
1741 2011-03-07 15:37:15 <luke-jr> tcatm: it seems to be
1742 2011-03-07 15:37:16 <OneFixt> though i'd agree that perhaps it's not a common-enough question
1743 2011-03-07 15:37:39 <luke-jr> every few days someone seems to ask, and then the trolls pipe up a argument
1744 2011-03-07 15:38:07 BlueMatt has joined
1745 2011-03-07 15:38:08 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1746 2011-03-07 15:38:08 BlueMatt has joined
1747 2011-03-07 15:38:16 <Lachesis> what question is this?
1748 2011-03-07 15:38:17 gasteve has joined
1749 2011-03-07 15:38:25 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Uncommon_Terminology
1750 2011-03-07 15:38:46 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1751 2011-03-07 15:39:00 <Lachesis> ah, that
1752 2011-03-07 15:39:01 molecular has joined
1753 2011-03-07 15:39:09 dwdollar has joined
1754 2011-03-07 15:40:03 <tcatm> luke-jr: I don't think this belongs into the bitcoin FAQ. Better add it to a tonal article on wikipedia.
1755 2011-03-07 15:40:31 <luke-jr> tcatm: it's a FAQ, why wouldn't it belong there?
1756 2011-03-07 15:41:47 ThomasV has joined
1757 2011-03-07 15:41:50 <dwdollar> jgarzik: Still haven't reproduced that error you had earlier this morning. It has something to do with the order states not being saved, which is why some of the order histories can't be viewed.
1758 2011-03-07 15:42:00 <luke-jr> dwdollar: does Market work yet? :P
1759 2011-03-07 15:42:21 <dwdollar> luke-jr: Getting there. :)
1760 2011-03-07 15:42:56 <dwdollar> It should be a lot better now, if you want to try it.
1761 2011-03-07 15:43:17 <tcatm> TBC is barely used at all. It's nice that bitcoin can support TBC but it isn't even in any widely available client so users who don't hang out here won't come across TBC.
1762 2011-03-07 15:44:14 <Lachesis> fwiw, i agree with tcatm - don't put it on the main faq page. start a tonal page if you'd like
1763 2011-03-07 15:44:26 <luke-jr> tcatm: reality says otherwise
1764 2011-03-07 15:44:56 <tcatm> reality says tonal has a userbase of 2 or 3
1765 2011-03-07 15:44:57 MJD has joined
1766 2011-03-07 15:45:07 <slush> ;;bc,gend 300000 32
1767 2011-03-07 15:45:07 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 32, is 9429.64106798 BTC per day and 392.901711166 BTC per hour.
1768 2011-03-07 15:45:15 <luke-jr> tcatm: reality says that every couple of days, someone asks what TBC is
1769 2011-03-07 15:45:18 <slush> ;;bc,calcd 300000 32
1770 2011-03-07 15:45:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 32, is 7 minutes and 38 seconds
1771 2011-03-07 15:45:29 <Lachesis> is there any way to see which version of berkeley db i linked against?
1772 2011-03-07 15:45:54 <tcatm> luke-jr: well then put it into a tonal article
1773 2011-03-07 15:46:11 <luke-jr> if people read that, they wouldn't be asking, obviously
1774 2011-03-07 15:46:14 <Lachesis> slush, why? :)
1775 2011-03-07 15:46:24 <slush> Lachesis: testnet :)
1776 2011-03-07 15:46:24 <luke-jr> also, the Tonal article is part of the technical specifications half of the wiki :p
1777 2011-03-07 15:46:28 <Lachesis> ah
1778 2011-03-07 15:46:46 <luke-jr> I wonder if that question might actually be best converted to cover all non-BTC units
1779 2011-03-07 15:47:01 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1780 2011-03-07 15:47:04 <luke-jr> eg, cBTC, MBTC, TBC, áµTBC
1781 2011-03-07 15:47:06 <luke-jr> etc
1782 2011-03-07 15:47:54 <OneFixt> luke-jr: i think you'd confuse the crap out of the average user - just make an uncommon terminology page
1783 2011-03-07 15:48:13 <luke-jr> OneFixt: then the average user won't read it
1784 2011-03-07 15:48:19 <luke-jr> if it's confusing, it should be fixed
1785 2011-03-07 15:48:23 <OneFixt> he'll search it on the wiki if he needs it
1786 2011-03-07 15:48:29 <luke-jr> OneFixt: obviously not
1787 2011-03-07 15:48:42 <slush> luke-jr no, if it is confusing and unrelated to bitcoin, then it should be on faq
1788 2011-03-07 15:48:53 <slush> should NOT be on faq
1789 2011-03-07 15:48:58 <luke-jr> slush: but it IS related to bitcoin
1790 2011-03-07 15:49:19 <luke-jr> and the FAQ entry is not IMO confusing
1791 2011-03-07 15:49:26 <luke-jr> if it is confusing, that is a problem
1792 2011-03-07 15:49:54 <slush> luke-jr there is one rule - don't write wikipedia articles about own projects; if it become important, other will do it for you
1793 2011-03-07 15:49:55 <tcatm> I'd prefer you keeping tonal as your private project and at most have s single wiki page dedicated to it instead of including tonal support almost everywhere.
1794 2011-03-07 15:50:08 <luke-jr> slush: we're not talking about Wikipedia
1795 2011-03-07 15:50:08 <slush> luke-jr I think it is valid point also in bitcoin wiki / faq :)
1796 2011-03-07 15:53:18 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1797 2011-03-07 15:53:42 Vilja has left ()
1798 2011-03-07 15:55:14 <luke-jr> tcatm: also, there are only 2 working clients (AFAIK), one of which supports TBC :P
1799 2011-03-07 15:55:27 <Lachesis> luke-jr, the second one is just an interface to the first
1800 2011-03-07 15:55:36 <luke-jr> Lachesis: not exactly.
1801 2011-03-07 15:55:48 <luke-jr> and interface is exactly where BTC/TBC exist
1802 2011-03-07 15:56:00 <luke-jr> they have no business being in Peer, Wallet, or Miner components
1803 2011-03-07 15:56:02 <Lachesis> my point is, saying there are two clients is confusing
1804 2011-03-07 15:56:09 <tcatm> I just removed tonal support from -monitor to avoid confusion.
1805 2011-03-07 15:56:12 <Lachesis> there are at least two UIs
1806 2011-03-07 15:56:17 <luke-jr> tcatm: jerk
1807 2011-03-07 15:56:19 <magnetron> tcatm: good
1808 2011-03-07 15:56:36 <magnetron> luke-jr: git branch bro
1809 2011-03-07 15:56:47 <tcatm> grepping my backlog there where only a few dozen tonal tx anyway
1810 2011-03-07 15:56:57 <luke-jr> tcatm: so then there shouldn't be a problem, should there?
1811 2011-03-07 15:57:08 <luke-jr> tcatm: sounds like you're just making trouble now
1812 2011-03-07 15:57:30 <sipa> http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/ -> second client
1813 2011-03-07 15:57:54 <OneFixt> distinguishing the letters BTC and TBC is a horrible interface problem that should be avoided; if it ever goes mainstream, expect a LOT of miscommunication
1814 2011-03-07 15:58:00 <luke-jr> if -monitor is going to regress, we'll have to come up with a replacement that isn't broken
1815 2011-03-07 15:58:12 <tcatm> Maybe, the bot could crash the next time it receives a TBC tx as I haven't tested the patch.
1816 2011-03-07 15:58:34 <luke-jr> tcatm: whatever it does, it's a regression if it no longer shows TBC as TBC
1817 2011-03-07 15:58:40 <flok> whoohoo! 42167 khash/s \o/
1818 2011-03-07 15:58:52 <OneFixt> flok: contgrats =)
1819 2011-03-07 15:59:03 <OneFixt> congrats*
1820 2011-03-07 15:59:08 <flok> not sure what kind of card it is. the box says asus and lspci says nvidia
1821 2011-03-07 15:59:16 <mmarker> lspci -v
1822 2011-03-07 15:59:26 <TD> niceness flok
1823 2011-03-07 15:59:27 <mmarker> there should be a 8 digit hex code, xxxx:yyyy
1824 2011-03-07 15:59:36 <mmarker> that'll tell you what type of card (the PCI ID)
1825 2011-03-07 15:59:51 <tcatm> luke-jr: There are many more ways to encode Bitcoin amounts so every client that doesn't support all of them would be broken ;)
1826 2011-03-07 16:00:13 <luke-jr> tcatm: not talking about encoding, just human representation
1827 2011-03-07 16:00:34 <tcatm> s/encode/representate/
1828 2011-03-07 16:00:43 <mmarker> TD: Ohh, you incorporated the bouncycastle classes you need in the namespace. Thanks!
1829 2011-03-07 16:00:45 <luke-jr> tcatm: no, there are no other human representations
1830 2011-03-07 16:00:58 <luke-jr> in any case, going from 2 supported to 1 is a regression
1831 2011-03-07 16:01:12 <TD> actually i just imported the whole of bouncycastle lightweight api. there's some stuff in there which isn't necessary but i didn't bother to strip it oiut
1832 2011-03-07 16:01:21 <TD> if you want to clean it up, go ahead :-)
1833 2011-03-07 16:01:23 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1834 2011-03-07 16:01:25 <luke-jr> regressions are bugs
1835 2011-03-07 16:01:42 <tcatm> going from 2 representation to one that can show all possible amounts without confusion is not a regression
1836 2011-03-07 16:01:50 <flok> ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8375
1837 2011-03-07 16:01:56 <flok> can't find the pci id
1838 2011-03-07 16:02:06 <mmarker> TD: The devels who did the GnuPG app for android has a set of scripts that strips down bouncycastle for their app
1839 2011-03-07 16:02:08 <luke-jr> tcatm: it is
1840 2011-03-07 16:02:17 <luke-jr> tcatm: because it doesn't show TBC amounts *correctly*
1841 2011-03-07 16:02:18 <mmarker> May be interested in looking at those.
1842 2011-03-07 16:02:30 <flok> ok it is a nVidia Corporation GF106 [GeForce 450 GTS]
1843 2011-03-07 16:02:39 <mmarker> There's your answer!
1844 2011-03-07 16:02:46 <TD> interesting. thanks. there are several BC libs actually, i'm using the entirely non-jce standalone one
1845 2011-03-07 16:02:52 <luke-jr> tcatm: where was the source for that module again? time to fork I guess
1846 2011-03-07 16:03:22 <luke-jr> tcatm: if you insist on joining the trolling crowd
1847 2011-03-07 16:04:02 <tcatm> I'm not trolling.
1848 2011-03-07 16:04:32 <mmarker> Lemme find those sripts
1849 2011-03-07 16:04:38 altamic has joined
1850 2011-03-07 16:04:40 satamusic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1851 2011-03-07 16:04:58 <luke-jr> tcatm: intentionally creating a regression is trolling
1852 2011-03-07 16:05:15 <luke-jr> there was nothing wrong with it, so you went and broke it
1853 2011-03-07 16:05:17 <luke-jr> that's trolling
1854 2011-03-07 16:05:37 <mmarker> http://code.google.com/p/android-privacy-guard/source/browse/#svn%2Ftools
1855 2011-03-07 16:05:56 <tcatm> I just changed a few lines of code. Same thing you did to the bitcoin source.
1856 2011-03-07 16:05:58 <mmarker> TD: It may not clip them down too far, since it leaves 2 classes behind.
1857 2011-03-07 16:06:11 <luke-jr> tcatm: you broke what was working.
1858 2011-03-07 16:06:39 <luke-jr> heck, it doesn't even work correctly for BTC anymore
1859 2011-03-07 16:07:16 <tcatm> It wasn't working well at all. TBC relied on some crazy symbols my font (terminus) couldn't display.
1860 2011-03-07 16:07:19 Kiba has joined
1861 2011-03-07 16:07:44 <luke-jr> tcatm: it was working fine.
1862 2011-03-07 16:07:54 <luke-jr> your font issues are unrelated to the fact that it worked.
1863 2011-03-07 16:08:20 <Spenvo> hey, just checking back, is google mining bitcoins?
1864 2011-03-07 16:08:26 <tcatm> Spenvo: no
1865 2011-03-07 16:08:35 <Spenvo> k, ty
1866 2011-03-07 16:08:36 <luke-jr> Spenvo: presumably, since they have their own client
1867 2011-03-07 16:09:42 <Spenvo> earlier there was some mention of the hash rate going up considerably, just wanted to see if that was bogus
1868 2011-03-07 16:10:34 <TD> let me crush this conspiracy theory right now
1869 2011-03-07 16:10:46 <TD> google has not dumped several hundred gigahashes/sec into bitcoin
1870 2011-03-07 16:11:13 <Spenvo> cool, k, now i've heard it from the source, thx
1871 2011-03-07 16:11:29 <TD> the mystery miner remains ....... mysterious
1872 2011-03-07 16:11:33 <luke-jr> tcatm: so again, if you're going to troll: where was the source for that module?
1873 2011-03-07 16:11:49 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1874 2011-03-07 16:11:55 <luke-jr> Spenvo: TD is official how? :P
1875 2011-03-07 16:12:08 <tcatm> luke-jr: at the evil git hosting site
1876 2011-03-07 16:12:53 <tcatm> haven't pushed yet so tonal support should still be there
1877 2011-03-07 16:13:10 <Spenvo> >-< gdamnit, i just want to update the bulletin so i'm not spreading misinformation - what should it read
1878 2011-03-07 16:13:32 <luke-jr> Google announces new BitCoin client?
1879 2011-03-07 16:13:34 <TD> maybe, nothing?
1880 2011-03-07 16:13:34 larsivi has joined
1881 2011-03-07 16:13:37 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1882 2011-03-07 16:13:39 <Spenvo> right
1883 2011-03-07 16:13:42 <luke-jr> tcatm: I don't see anything there
1884 2011-03-07 16:13:54 <luke-jr> nm
1885 2011-03-07 16:20:24 xelister has joined
1886 2011-03-07 16:25:09 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
1887 2011-03-07 16:25:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112539 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 356 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 11 hours, 30 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77724.52423178
1888 2011-03-07 16:25:17 Sedo has joined
1889 2011-03-07 16:25:18 <xelister> 77000.
1890 2011-03-07 16:26:54 <luke-jr> tcatm: what do I need to do besides load it?
1891 2011-03-07 16:27:25 <mmarker> Another nice jump.
1892 2011-03-07 16:27:46 <tcatm> luke-jr: review every line of plugin.py and see if you should change it. there are things hardcoded as it was an early release
1893 2011-03-07 16:30:12 bk128 has joined
1894 2011-03-07 16:30:31 jeekl has joined
1895 2011-03-07 16:30:40 * mmarker summons the ghost of jgarzik
1896 2011-03-07 16:32:12 Sedo has quit ()
1897 2011-03-07 16:36:38 mekel has joined
1898 2011-03-07 16:37:02 <mekel> so im prolly "that guy" #50 today.. how long is slushes site gunna be down anyone know?
1899 2011-03-07 16:37:09 <mekel> nvm
1900 2011-03-07 16:37:16 <mekel> it would go up the second i post
1901 2011-03-07 16:37:39 <tcatm> wasn't down at all
1902 2011-03-07 16:37:58 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
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1907 2011-03-07 16:41:20 <eps1> it was down
1908 2011-03-07 16:41:28 <luke-jr> tcatm: does this require a hacked bitcoind to connect to?
1909 2011-03-07 16:41:30 <Kiba> hmm
1910 2011-03-07 16:41:38 <Kiba> so is davout responding?
1911 2011-03-07 16:41:49 <tcatm> luke-jr: no
1912 2011-03-07 16:41:54 <luke-jr> tcatm: well, it's not working
1913 2011-03-07 16:42:02 <luke-jr> would be much nicer if you just fixed -monitor
1914 2011-03-07 16:42:26 <luke-jr> it connects, ignores data, then gets booted by bitcoind
1915 2011-03-07 16:42:41 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1916 2011-03-07 16:43:13 <tcatm> I'll fix -monitor once TBC has a userbase >= 100
1917 2011-03-07 16:43:23 Spenvo has joined
1918 2011-03-07 16:44:11 <Spenvo> does anybody have any experience betting on bitcoinsportsbook.com?
1919 2011-03-07 16:44:15 <luke-jr> tcatm: it's broken for BTC too
1920 2011-03-07 16:44:26 <luke-jr> TBC+BTC certainly has >100
1921 2011-03-07 16:44:42 <tcatm> yeah. it's missing the BTC
1922 2011-03-07 16:44:42 <luke-jr> bitcoind sez: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 0 1
1923 2011-03-07 16:44:51 <luke-jr> tcatm: it's also showing 8 digits beyond .
1924 2011-03-07 16:45:25 <luke-jr> tcatm: it worked fine yesterday
1925 2011-03-07 16:45:45 <luke-jr> tcatm: give one reason to change it, other than to piss tonal users off
1926 2011-03-07 16:46:05 <tcatm> showing all 8 decimals without the confusing uBTCents
1927 2011-03-07 16:46:51 <luke-jr> I already gave you a WORKING change to make ucBTC display as BTC
1928 2011-03-07 16:47:50 <luke-jr> line 55 plugin.py, s = "%d uBTCents" % (n,);
1929 2011-03-07 16:47:58 <luke-jr> replace with: return formatBTC(Bitcoin2BTC(n), addSign);
1930 2011-03-07 16:48:10 <tcatm> it's working fine now
1931 2011-03-07 16:48:11 <luke-jr> of course, that does still round it
1932 2011-03-07 16:48:13 <luke-jr> no, it isn't.
1933 2011-03-07 16:48:19 <luke-jr> it's showing 8 digits when there shoudl only be 2
1934 2011-03-07 16:48:36 <tcatm> all 8 digits are known so it's okay to show them
1935 2011-03-07 16:48:58 <luke-jr> no, your new way is more confusing than TBC and uBTCents were
1936 2011-03-07 16:50:30 amiller has joined
1937 2011-03-07 16:52:41 <luke-jr> tcatm: can I get you to push the current code which might work with current bitcoind?
1938 2011-03-07 16:52:55 <tcatm> code at github is working fine
1939 2011-03-07 16:53:05 <luke-jr> no, it isn't.
1940 2011-03-07 16:53:09 <tcatm> really the only difference is that I changed formatBTC()
1941 2011-03-07 16:53:33 <tcatm> which port did you choose?
1942 2011-03-07 16:53:34 <luke-jr> erm, if you only changed that, it would be working for TBC
1943 2011-03-07 16:53:37 <luke-jr> 8333?
1944 2011-03-07 16:53:43 <tcatm> should work
1945 2011-03-07 16:54:03 mmarker has quit (Quit: Lunch!)
1946 2011-03-07 16:55:26 Zarutian has joined
1947 2011-03-07 17:03:10 <luke-jr> now the only problem is I have my bot on highlight, so everything highlights me -.-
1948 2011-03-07 17:03:49 <luke-jr> maybe colours too
1949 2011-03-07 17:05:11 <flok> will poclbm print a message that it found something? or should i run getbalance to see that?
1950 2011-03-07 17:05:23 <tcatm> it'll print a message
1951 2011-03-07 17:06:05 <luke-jr> flok: getbalance won't show it for about 8 hours IIRC
1952 2011-03-07 17:06:12 <luke-jr> tcatm: do I need to reinvent colours?
1953 2011-03-07 17:06:35 <flok> what's the expected time to find a bitcoin for a 42M/s hash miner?
1954 2011-03-07 17:06:43 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 42000
1955 2011-03-07 17:06:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 42000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 9 weeks, 2 days, 19 hours, 5 minutes, and 20 seconds
1956 2011-03-07 17:06:54 <tcatm> luke-jr: hm? if you like, sure.
1957 2011-03-07 17:06:58 <flok> ouch
1958 2011-03-07 17:07:13 <magnetron> flok: one block has a 50 BTC reward currently
1959 2011-03-07 17:07:20 <luke-jr> tcatm: well, I mean will you push yours, or do I need to rewrite it?
1960 2011-03-07 17:07:23 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 42000
1961 2011-03-07 17:07:24 <Diablo-D3> because I feel like being a dick
1962 2011-03-07 17:07:25 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 42000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 0.759931847367 BTC per day and 0.0316638269736 BTC per hour.
1963 2011-03-07 17:07:26 <flok> ;;bc,calc 42183
1964 2011-03-07 17:07:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 42183 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 9 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours, 14 minutes, and 18 seconds
1965 2011-03-07 17:07:30 <Diablo-D3> http://i.min.us/ibgzvI.jpg
1966 2011-03-07 17:07:34 <Diablo-D3> you may now rage
1967 2011-03-07 17:07:57 MartianW has joined
1968 2011-03-07 17:09:09 <tcatm> luke-jr: outs = map(lambda x: "%s \x0309,01%s\x03" % (extract_public_key(x.scriptPubKey), formatBitcoin(x.nValue)), tx.vout)
1969 2011-03-07 17:11:11 <flok> it would be fun if ;;bc,calc also tells you how many electricity costs you have. e.g. ;;bc,calc 42183 0.2131 (for 0.2131 euro per kWatt) can then give 37 euro (or whatever currency you have)
1970 2011-03-07 17:11:48 <sipa> it can't
1971 2011-03-07 17:11:55 <sipa> i depends on your hardware
1972 2011-03-07 17:12:28 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: now that's skillful trolling
1973 2011-03-07 17:12:43 <flok> hmm ok. then ;bc,calc 42183 106 0.2131 where 106 is the watt used by the card (find it on the wiki)
1974 2011-03-07 17:13:00 <Tril> Diablo-D3: why's it black and white. that's my objection.
1975 2011-03-07 17:13:02 <sipa> what do you need 42183 for then?
1976 2011-03-07 17:14:44 <flok> sipa: to see how long it takes to generate 1 hash
1977 2011-03-07 17:15:21 Necr0s has joined
1978 2011-03-07 17:15:48 <Necr0s> dammit. I "lost the race", again.
1979 2011-03-07 17:15:49 <gasteve> do you all see the announce in the forum about "bitcoinj"?
1980 2011-03-07 17:16:05 <sipa> yes
1981 2011-03-07 17:16:10 <luke-jr> ofc
1982 2011-03-07 17:16:52 <gasteve> I'm curious what it means regarding google's involvement ...is it just someone's side 20% project at google, or is it something more significant
1983 2011-03-07 17:17:00 <gasteve> any speculation? any more info?
1984 2011-03-07 17:17:10 <sipa> yes
1985 2011-03-07 17:17:25 <Diablo-D3> Tril: why wouldnt i be?
1986 2011-03-07 17:18:16 <Kiba> 20% project, probably
1987 2011-03-07 17:18:21 <sipa> 16:03:40 < TD> it's the sentence i wrote because i work for google, i wrote the code, i got the approval to release it under the google name and i'm pleased it's out there.
1988 2011-03-07 17:18:29 <Kiba> but if he could make it so that Google make money, it might be a game changer
1989 2011-03-07 17:18:54 <Kiba> business model? payment processor?
1990 2011-03-07 17:19:23 <Kiba> well, it make a nice headline
1991 2011-03-07 17:19:25 <sipa> i think currently he's the only person at google involved
1992 2011-03-07 17:19:46 <Kiba> maybe it will inspire a few engineers over at google to join in
1993 2011-03-07 17:19:46 <gasteve> who is "he" ...doesn't he come on IRC here?
1994 2011-03-07 17:19:55 <sipa> TD
1995 2011-03-07 17:19:58 <gasteve> (I meant "does he")
1996 2011-03-07 17:20:23 <gasteve> ok
1997 2011-03-07 17:20:42 <x6763> gasteve: he is TD on irc and [mike] in the bicoin forums
1998 2011-03-07 17:21:34 <gasteve> they way that it's written makes one believe it's something that Sergey himself blessed
1999 2011-03-07 17:22:57 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2000 2011-03-07 17:22:59 <x6763> gasteve: well, their open source office and legal team and stuff signed off on him releasing it under Google's name
2001 2011-03-07 17:23:37 <sipa> that doesn't mean upper management even knows about it
2002 2011-03-07 17:23:59 <sipa> TD: but correct me if i'm wrong :)
2003 2011-03-07 17:24:15 <tcatm> 13:04 < TD> i should note though, that there are quite a lot of people @google who know about bitcoin. there was a big discussion of it in the summer of 2009
2004 2011-03-07 17:24:40 <x6763> and TD is doing an internal talk about bitcoin on thursday
2005 2011-03-07 17:24:52 <Blitzboom> if everyone thinks google is involved, google will get involved
2006 2011-03-07 17:24:52 <gasteve> yep, but something like "I am pleased to announce the release of BitcoinJ, a project made possible through the sponsorship of Google" or similar would give a more accurate impression of Google's level of involvement
2007 2011-03-07 17:24:53 <Blitzboom> ok?
2008 2011-03-07 17:25:52 <gasteve> yeah...I just don't know if google's involvement is a good thing or not
2009 2011-03-07 17:27:11 satamusic has joined
2010 2011-03-07 17:27:33 <tcatm> why would it be bad?
2011 2011-03-07 17:28:37 gavinandresen has joined
2012 2011-03-07 17:29:37 <Tril> so far I'm leaning towards good for bitcoin and for google
2013 2011-03-07 17:29:58 <tcatm> even if they actually made googlecoins that would be good
2014 2011-03-07 17:29:58 mmarker has joined
2015 2011-03-07 17:30:44 <Diablo-D3> ....
2016 2011-03-07 17:30:53 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: if you say googlecoins again, I will beat you with a crowbar
2017 2011-03-07 17:31:12 <mmarker> Diablo: he may like that, so be careful
2018 2011-03-07 17:31:18 <gasteve> possibly too early...could move it in a direction not in the original spirit of btc...or bury it...Microsoft often employed a strategy called "adopt and extend"...I guess I just have a general distrust of large corporations ...particularly with nascent technologies and one's as important as bitcoin
2019 2011-03-07 17:31:19 <Spenvo> I 2nd that
2020 2011-03-07 17:31:42 <tcatm> googlecoins :P
2021 2011-03-07 17:31:42 <Blitzboom> i 3rd tcatm
2022 2011-03-07 17:31:46 akem has joined
2023 2011-03-07 17:32:17 <tcatm> sudo find -type crowbar / -delete
2024 2011-03-07 17:34:47 <Blitzboom> we need some google+bitcoin logo
2025 2011-03-07 17:34:49 <UukGoblin> find: paths must precede expression
2026 2011-03-07 17:34:57 <UukGoblin> I make that error too, tcatm
2027 2011-03-07 17:34:59 <Blitzboom> smashing facebook and other villains
2028 2011-03-07 17:35:32 <tcatm> yep, find's syntax is, while totally logical, still confusing
2029 2011-03-07 17:35:33 <Spenvo> blitzboom: lol
2030 2011-03-07 17:36:09 <gavinandresen> A Google-branded Bitcoin project is fantastic news! The biggest barrier to bitcoin acceptance is trust, and well-known brands go a long way to establishing trust.
2031 2011-03-07 17:36:16 * Diablo-D3 beats everyone with a crowbar
2032 2011-03-07 17:36:29 <Blitzboom> gavinandresen speaks the truth
2033 2011-03-07 17:36:31 <tcatm> killall hl.exe :)
2034 2011-03-07 17:36:32 <Spenvo> all rejoice
2035 2011-03-07 17:36:53 <Diablo-D3> well
2036 2011-03-07 17:36:55 <Diablo-D3> it used to be a cluebat
2037 2011-03-07 17:37:03 <Diablo-D3> but all the clue rubbed off after years of beatings
2038 2011-03-07 17:37:14 * Diablo-D3 should get another roll of duct tape and redo it
2039 2011-03-07 17:38:11 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
2040 2011-03-07 17:38:13 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2041 2011-03-07 17:38:41 <luke-jr> #bitcoin-watch open :D
2042 2011-03-07 17:38:54 <luke-jr> with some improvements over even the old -monitor
2043 2011-03-07 17:38:55 <TD> i've posted a clarification to the bitcoinj thread. hopefully that will stop the speculation.
2044 2011-03-07 17:39:47 <tcatm> It won't. People love speculation about these topics.
2045 2011-03-07 17:39:55 <TD> conspiracy theories are fun
2046 2011-03-07 17:40:18 <TD> especially when regarding Vast TransNational MegaCorps
2047 2011-03-07 17:40:30 <mmarker> Hehe
2048 2011-03-07 17:42:50 <mmarker> TD: your clarification fails to mention the Google Cabal for owning every aspect of our lives...or is that in the next src code drop? :D
2049 2011-03-07 17:44:18 <phantomcircuit> SELECT hash FROM blocks WHERE hash NOT IN (SELECT prev_hash FROM blocks);
2050 2011-03-07 17:44:22 <phantomcircuit> oops
2051 2011-03-07 17:44:27 <phantomcircuit> wrong window
2052 2011-03-07 17:44:39 mmarker is now known as chromicant
2053 2011-03-07 17:45:14 chromicant is now known as mmarker
2054 2011-03-07 17:48:59 <slush> sipa: do you know if MM is active right now?
2055 2011-03-07 17:49:13 <slush> sipa: looks like block generation is climbing down again
2056 2011-03-07 17:49:53 midnightmagic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2057 2011-03-07 17:52:02 slush1 has joined
2058 2011-03-07 17:55:53 midnightmagic has joined
2059 2011-03-07 17:57:22 bk128 has joined
2060 2011-03-07 17:57:28 bk128 has quit (Client Quit)
2061 2011-03-07 17:58:07 <phantomcircuit> psh
2062 2011-03-07 17:58:26 <Aciid> I demand mysteryminer.com as a status page to show the power of this individual, and what is his objective
2063 2011-03-07 17:58:39 <Aciid> I will not rest!
2064 2011-03-07 17:58:40 <phantomcircuit> lame
2065 2011-03-07 17:59:02 <phantomcircuit> so the google thing is actually just a client, not a full peer
2066 2011-03-07 17:59:09 <gavinandresen> Catch me up on MysterMiner? Somebody seems to be throwing lots of hashing at the network once or twice a week?
2067 2011-03-07 17:59:19 <jgarzik> mmarker: ?
2068 2011-03-07 17:59:20 <TD> it's a peer that is implementing client-mode
2069 2011-03-07 17:59:25 <TD> it is not an rpc wrapper
2070 2011-03-07 17:59:30 <Aciid> phantomcircuit: yes, its made to sprung up the android/mobile dev for client for on the go payments
2071 2011-03-07 17:59:45 <TD> the term "client" is somewhat overloaded in bitcoin
2072 2011-03-07 17:59:53 <phantomcircuit> TD, yeah no kidding
2073 2011-03-07 18:00:00 <phantomcircuit> Aciid, it should be possible to do that in about 5 days
2074 2011-03-07 18:00:09 <phantomcircuit> any more than that and well
2075 2011-03-07 18:00:10 <phantomcircuit> psh
2076 2011-03-07 18:00:49 <gavinandresen> TD: I haven't browsed the code, is your client a leaf node or does it relay transactions/blocks?
2077 2011-03-07 18:00:51 Sedo has joined
2078 2011-03-07 18:00:56 <TD> it's a leaf node currently.
2079 2011-03-07 18:01:00 <TD> it could relay without too much extra work
2080 2011-03-07 18:01:39 <TD> the original goal was an android client. along the way i changed direction a bit and am now working towards a proper, documented library with which you could implement an android app
2081 2011-03-07 18:02:00 <gavinandresen> TD: nice. I'm slightly worried that it'll get hard to connect if there are suddenly lots of leaf-only clients
2082 2011-03-07 18:02:02 <TD> doing basically what is described as simplified payment verification in the paper. except i'd like to support verifying tx inputs when full nodes support a getmerklebranch command
2083 2011-03-07 18:02:29 <TD> yes but that's already an issue due to NAT and lack of UPnP support. one more reason to evolve the network towards a more skype style supernodes type design
2084 2011-03-07 18:02:37 <TD> i think only 25% of clients or so are listening
2085 2011-03-07 18:03:05 <gavinandresen> TD: yup. Satoshi asked me months ago if I could do UpNP support, but I hate UpNP (and know nothing about it, besides)
2086 2011-03-07 18:03:22 <TD> there are libraries that can do it. i agree it's probably a pain.
2087 2011-03-07 18:03:30 <phantomcircuit> TD, currently there's about 400 connectable nodes out of 3.5k
2088 2011-03-07 18:04:09 <phantomcircuit> the real solution is to move towards a UDP based protocol (which would be trivial since all packets have to be <50KiB anyways)
2089 2011-03-07 18:04:12 <eps1> roll on ipv6
2090 2011-03-07 18:04:33 <ArtForz> errr, UDP would be fucking stupid for this
2091 2011-03-07 18:04:36 <Aciid> theres loads of easy libraries around
2092 2011-03-07 18:04:47 <eps1> though you would probably still need upnp
2093 2011-03-07 18:05:01 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: how would UDP help? Former colleague of mine suggested SCTP as the right protocol for a bitcoin backbone
2094 2011-03-07 18:05:16 <Aciid> http://miniupnp.free.fr/
2095 2011-03-07 18:05:23 <ArtForz> you'd have to implement a half-assed TCP-over-UDP for guaranteed delivery anyways
2096 2011-03-07 18:05:25 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, sure but you're not going to be able to guarantee SCTP support
2097 2011-03-07 18:05:41 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, you dont have to guarantee delivery...
2098 2011-03-07 18:05:49 <TD> right, meeting time. bbiab.
2099 2011-03-07 18:05:54 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2100 2011-03-07 18:05:55 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: not for PCs, but for the major merchants/exchanges I think a SCTP backbone would make a ton of sense
2101 2011-03-07 18:06:12 <Kiba> why?
2102 2011-03-07 18:06:26 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: yes, inv() for a block randomly getting dropped will totally help ...
2103 2011-03-07 18:06:42 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: "leaf-only" is in my vocabulary a Wallet ;)
2104 2011-03-07 18:07:11 <gavinandresen> Why SCTP and a separate backbone for merchants/exchanges? Because always-very-fast, almost-only-connected, more-trusted communication helps security
2105 2011-03-07 18:07:22 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the real solution is to use IPv6
2106 2011-03-07 18:07:40 <ArtForz> yes, IPv6 is the solution, but what is the problem?
2107 2011-03-07 18:07:45 <luke-jr> ArtForz: NAT
2108 2011-03-07 18:08:07 <ArtForz> and that helps against stupid home NAT routers... how?
2109 2011-03-07 18:08:12 <Diablo-D3> [12:56:22] <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: how would UDP help? Former colleague of mine suggested SCTP as the right protocol for a bitcoin backbone
2110 2011-03-07 18:08:18 <Diablo-D3> most routers will shit on stcp
2111 2011-03-07 18:08:23 <Diablo-D3> this is why no one adopts it
2112 2011-03-07 18:08:35 <ArtForz> 90% of consumer crap has no IPv6 support or it's so horribly broken it might as well not exist
2113 2011-03-07 18:08:36 <Diablo-D3> and btw, no
2114 2011-03-07 18:08:39 <Diablo-D3> UDP is fine
2115 2011-03-07 18:08:47 <Diablo-D3> you CAN make a reliable UDP transport.
2116 2011-03-07 18:09:01 <ArtForz> so... implement a half-assed TCP-over-UDP for guaranteed delivery
2117 2011-03-07 18:09:20 <luke-jr> ArtForz: that HAS to change within the next year
2118 2011-03-07 18:09:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: theres already libs for that
2119 2011-03-07 18:09:39 <gavinandresen> Y'all go work on whatever alternative bitcoin networking you like, I think the more the merrier....
2120 2011-03-07 18:09:42 <Diablo-D3> they even do multichannel communication and shit
2121 2011-03-07 18:09:44 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, the most reliable way to punch through NAT is with STUN
2122 2011-03-07 18:10:06 <ArtForz> well, UPnP support should certainly help
2123 2011-03-07 18:10:13 <gavinandresen> Patches welcome.
2124 2011-03-07 18:10:23 <luke-jr> the problem with UPnP is that it's non-trivial
2125 2011-03-07 18:10:28 <phantomcircuit> UPnP is either broken or disabled a lot
2126 2011-03-07 18:10:41 <luke-jr> UPnP should have been more like WOL
2127 2011-03-07 18:10:53 <luke-jr> just a single stateless UDP packet broadcast
2128 2011-03-07 18:11:06 <luke-jr> no XML parsing nonsense, or TCP connection to keep track of
2129 2011-03-07 18:11:43 <Diablo-D3> upnp shouldnt exist, for one
2130 2011-03-07 18:11:59 <gavinandresen> Actually, writing a supernode that just accepted transactions and relayed network traffic (and did ZERO data storage or transaction/block verification) would probably solve the problem quicker/easier than UpNP. I'd run one....
2131 2011-03-07 18:12:13 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: neither should NAT.
2132 2011-03-07 18:12:13 <Diablo-D3> and I dont particularly like how they're trying to fold everything in
2133 2011-03-07 18:12:29 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, that's basically how the network operates right now
2134 2011-03-07 18:12:41 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: sounds like a traffic amplification attack waiting to happen
2135 2011-03-07 18:12:57 <phantomcircuit> any connectable peer will be inundated with connections almost instantly
2136 2011-03-07 18:13:03 <Diablo-D3> this is what we have zeroconf, mdns, and dlna for
2137 2011-03-07 18:13:08 <Diablo-D3> three completely unrelated things
2138 2011-03-07 18:13:22 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: that's why I'm not volunteering to write it, I like to stick my head in the sand and treat networking as a black box whenever I can
2139 2011-03-07 18:14:13 <gavinandresen> (so if you tell me I'm full of shit and UpNP is easier than a supernode, I'll shut up and nod my head)
2140 2011-03-07 18:14:24 <ArtForz> nah, it sounds like a good plan
2141 2011-03-07 18:14:35 <luke-jr> FWIW: <ljrbot> TX 1K86noNm8dFkKbJT32AhAWnpyjdpWSq4nT 0.01108672 BTC 17kcdbvPaCgDxiZ2Yd6nDCcdEvLEkegqCH 1 TBC fcdd891d76b1eca0a1c9c71f288e3c48db4fdf06f70eebcfefc537c9789bacdd
2142 2011-03-07 18:14:49 <luke-jr> tcatm: isn't that much nicer? :P
2143 2011-03-07 18:14:49 <Diablo-D3> also
2144 2011-03-07 18:14:50 <phantomcircuit> settings up STUN servers would be so much easier
2145 2011-03-07 18:14:53 <phantomcircuit> whatever
2146 2011-03-07 18:14:57 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck owns a router that actually does this shit
2147 2011-03-07 18:15:07 <Diablo-D3> and btw, upnp doesnt fix double sided nat.
2148 2011-03-07 18:15:13 <ArtForz> also make it handle addr() and they can also act as seednodes
2149 2011-03-07 18:15:14 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: most routers do UPnP
2150 2011-03-07 18:15:27 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt even fix one sided nat since most people dont have fucking upnp, or turn it off due to viruses
2151 2011-03-07 18:15:40 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: yeah just like people turn on WEPâ¦
2152 2011-03-07 18:15:41 <Diablo-D3> this is why STUN is _an actual internet standard_
2153 2011-03-07 18:16:03 <luke-jr> STUN doesn't fix NAT
2154 2011-03-07 18:16:13 <Diablo-D3> actually, it does
2155 2011-03-07 18:16:15 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: memory-only, maybe run a bunch connected by memcached .... sounds like it could be a fun project.
2156 2011-03-07 18:16:20 <Diablo-D3> STUN is perfect for two sided nat with udp
2157 2011-03-07 18:16:34 Myckel has joined
2158 2011-03-07 18:17:05 <Diablo-D3> stun and turn have actual fucking rfcs
2159 2011-03-07 18:17:30 <ArtForz> so does gopher
2160 2011-03-07 18:17:37 <Diablo-D3> fuck yeah gopher!
2161 2011-03-07 18:17:49 <luke-jr> lol
2162 2011-03-07 18:17:53 <gavinandresen> bitcoin over gopher.... there's a great project!
2163 2011-03-07 18:18:18 <Diablo-D3> someone wrote a gopher fuse fs.
2164 2011-03-07 18:18:23 <Diablo-D3> yeah. a gopher fuse fs.
2165 2011-03-07 18:18:24 <gavinandresen> of course they did
2166 2011-03-07 18:18:26 <Diablo-D3> thats just fffffff.
2167 2011-03-07 18:18:55 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, STUN is specifically designed to fix NAT
2168 2011-03-07 18:18:56 <phantomcircuit> ...
2169 2011-03-07 18:18:58 <gavinandresen> they probably spend a lot of time procrastinating in IRC channels, too
2170 2011-03-07 18:19:17 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: STUN "fixes" NAT if every end-point runs it
2171 2011-03-07 18:19:27 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: eg, where you have a single VoIP endpoint
2172 2011-03-07 18:19:32 <luke-jr> it doesn't help for p2p at all
2173 2011-03-07 18:20:23 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: you forgot turn
2174 2011-03-07 18:20:28 <luke-jr> ?
2175 2011-03-07 18:21:06 <Diablo-D3> stun and turn
2176 2011-03-07 18:22:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, uh how exactly does it not help for p2p?
2177 2011-03-07 18:22:18 <phantomcircuit> (hint how do you think skype works?)
2178 2011-03-07 18:22:29 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: Skype doesn't use STUN
2179 2011-03-07 18:22:32 <nanotube> gavinandresen: maybe implement ipv6 support for bitcoin. then maybe eventually the NAT problem will just go away :)
2180 2011-03-07 18:22:38 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: nop
2181 2011-03-07 18:22:40 <Diablo-D3> nope
2182 2011-03-07 18:22:44 <Diablo-D3> NAT still exists for ipv6
2183 2011-03-07 18:22:44 <luke-jr> nanotube: I have an IPv6 branch
2184 2011-03-07 18:22:47 <Diablo-D3> due to corp net hiding
2185 2011-03-07 18:23:15 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: yes, but i just mean that maybe most peers will stop being behind nat.
2186 2011-03-07 18:23:40 <Diablo-D3> yup
2187 2011-03-07 18:23:43 <Diablo-D3> thats the intention
2188 2011-03-07 18:23:51 <Diablo-D3> everyone is celebrating ipv6 as the end of faggotry
2189 2011-03-07 18:23:58 <Diablo-D3> oooooohhhhhhhh how little do they know.
2190 2011-03-07 18:27:04 <Sedo> imo there should be websites/services, that run clients for the common customers (who dont care much about anonymity)
2191 2011-03-07 18:27:15 <Sedo> so you dont have to download any software at all
2192 2011-03-07 18:27:29 <nanotube> Sedo: you mean, like mybitcoin.com? :)
2193 2011-03-07 18:28:34 <Sedo> can you get coins to mybitcoin without ever having downloaded the client ?
2194 2011-03-07 18:28:55 <luke-jr> Sedo: the problem I see with that is more of security ;)
2195 2011-03-07 18:29:18 <gavinandresen> Sedo: yes, absolutely, you get a receiving address when you sign up at mybitcoin.com
2196 2011-03-07 18:29:51 ousado_ is now known as ousado
2197 2011-03-07 18:29:54 ousado has quit (Changing host)
2198 2011-03-07 18:29:54 ousado has joined
2199 2011-03-07 18:29:56 <gavinandresen> ... and luke-jr is right, you have to trust the mybitcoin.com won't take your coins or get taken over by a government that decides to freeze all accounts....
2200 2011-03-07 18:29:59 * luke-jr notes one could just have people pay bitcoins to a Market address too
2201 2011-03-07 18:30:45 <Diablo-D3> http://www.pidjin.net/
2202 2011-03-07 18:30:48 <Diablo-D3> we have a winnar
2203 2011-03-07 18:31:37 <gavinandresen> slush or any other mining pool operators here?
2204 2011-03-07 18:32:02 <nanotube> ;;seen slush
2205 2011-03-07 18:32:03 <gribble> slush was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 42 minutes and 49 seconds ago: <slush> sipa: looks like block generation is climbing down again
2206 2011-03-07 18:32:13 <nanotube> well he was just here. heh.
2207 2011-03-07 18:32:14 <Diablo-D3> slush was here earlier
2208 2011-03-07 18:32:21 <Blitzboom> gavinandresen: [Tycho] is here
2209 2011-03-07 18:32:24 <Blitzboom> (deepbit)
2210 2011-03-07 18:33:01 <Aciid> gavinandresen: #bitcoin-poolnamehere , usually the case. but most of them hangout here on dev too
2211 2011-03-07 18:33:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I used to run a pool, and will have one again in ~1 week, if that matters
2212 2011-03-07 18:33:34 <Diablo-D3> man
2213 2011-03-07 18:33:37 <Diablo-D3> everyone has a fucking pool now
2214 2011-03-07 18:33:41 <gavinandresen> That does matter-- I want to run a proposed "multisend" API by pool operators, get feedback
2215 2011-03-07 18:33:51 <Aciid> Diablo-D3: POOLS CLOSED
2216 2011-03-07 18:33:54 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: doesnt work.
2217 2011-03-07 18:34:02 <Diablo-D3> Aciid: I made that joke before 4chan did
2218 2011-03-07 18:34:06 <Aciid> sorry
2219 2011-03-07 18:34:13 <xelister> TCP OVER UDP OVER FREENET OVER TOR
2220 2011-03-07 18:34:20 <Diablo-D3> OVER YOUR MOM
2221 2011-03-07 18:34:21 <xelister> motherfuckers. tap this
2222 2011-03-07 18:34:22 <gavinandresen> xelister: you forgot i2p
2223 2011-03-07 18:34:27 <xelister> gavinandresen: and gnunnet
2224 2011-03-07 18:34:30 <Diablo-D3> and dialup
2225 2011-03-07 18:34:38 <Diablo-D3> slip, not ppp
2226 2011-03-07 18:34:50 <xelister> =)
2227 2011-03-07 18:34:53 <Diablo-D3> and then it all needs to behind 7 proxies
2228 2011-03-07 18:35:17 <xelister> freenet is like 40 proxes with magic
2229 2011-03-07 18:35:27 <Diablo-D3> so? tor can be over 9000 proxies
2230 2011-03-07 18:35:28 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: how were/ are you planning on doing pool payouts? Idea behind multisend is to make payout-to-multiple-people more efficient.
2231 2011-03-07 18:35:36 <xelister> Diablo-D3: not directly
2232 2011-03-07 18:35:46 <xelister> Diablo-D3: welll... how? tpc will timeout
2233 2011-03-07 18:35:50 <Aciid> xelister: freenet is amazing
2234 2011-03-07 18:35:50 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I can definitely use multi-send for payouts
2235 2011-03-07 18:35:57 <Diablo-D3> xelister: no it wont
2236 2011-03-07 18:35:58 <xelister> Aciid sure is =)
2237 2011-03-07 18:36:02 <Diablo-D3> Ive gotten a dozen working before
2238 2011-03-07 18:36:02 <gavinandresen> (Satoshi likes the idea, by the way, and suggested some improvements already)
2239 2011-03-07 18:36:11 <gavinandresen> (and yes, satoshi is alive :)
2240 2011-03-07 18:36:11 <xelister> Diablo-D3: how exactly?
2241 2011-03-07 18:36:25 <xelister> gavinandresen: is he tied in your basement
2242 2011-03-07 18:36:32 <gavinandresen> xelister: I WISH!
2243 2011-03-07 18:36:41 <xelister> on unrelated note, you can order whisps for btc somewhere
2244 2011-03-07 18:36:46 <xelister> whips.
2245 2011-03-07 18:37:00 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I was probably going to do daily payouts, which [without mass-pay] would imply a ton of transactions getting dumped on the 'net at midnight UTC every night
2246 2011-03-07 18:37:32 <nanotube> jgarzik: why not do payouts upon user request?
2247 2011-03-07 18:37:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: So proposed api is simple: sendmulti <fromaccount> {address:amount,address:amount...} [minconf] [comment]
2248 2011-03-07 18:37:54 <nanotube> (well, with multisend, the daily payout would make more sense... but without multisend)
2249 2011-03-07 18:38:06 <jgarzik> nanotube: that will be possible too. xf2.org already has a withdrawal feature, but I figure people will want the convenience of money being sent offsite automatically
2250 2011-03-07 18:38:08 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why not every hour, assigning each user a timeslot?
2251 2011-03-07 18:38:16 <gasteve> over the weekend I did a rather large refactoring of the client ...breaking up main.h/cpp ...one file per class, etc ...nothing compiling yet (going to work on that tonight)...but I'm wondering how such a large refactoring would/could be adopted into the main line ...oh, and I also grabbed the googletest framework and hope to add a couple example unit tests and test targets to makefile
2252 2011-03-07 18:38:29 <jgarzik> gasteve: probably not
2253 2011-03-07 18:38:40 <nanotube> gasteve: start small. :)
2254 2011-03-07 18:38:53 <nanotube> gavinandresen: what's [minconf] for in a send command?
2255 2011-03-07 18:39:02 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, most commits should be fairly small changes
2256 2011-03-07 18:39:07 <phantomcircuit> one class at a time...
2257 2011-03-07 18:39:08 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: calculating fee is an open question. If I do 1000 recipients, how do I know what is the proper fee?
2258 2011-03-07 18:39:11 <gavinandresen> nanotube: "Dont send coins that have fewer than [minconf] confirmations"
2259 2011-03-07 18:39:17 <Diablo-D3> [01:27:32] <xelister> Diablo-D3: how exactly?
2260 2011-03-07 18:39:18 <Diablo-D3> tor variable
2261 2011-03-07 18:39:28 <gasteve> so, take one class, pull it out have main.h/cpp at a time?
2262 2011-03-07 18:39:37 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: hey
2263 2011-03-07 18:39:39 <gasteve> s/have/of/
2264 2011-03-07 18:39:41 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: that api
2265 2011-03-07 18:39:44 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: do want.
2266 2011-03-07 18:39:48 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: the dumb way: attempt the transaction and if you don't have enough in your wallet to cover the fee it'll fail and tell you how much you need.
2267 2011-03-07 18:40:01 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: the smart way: hasn't been invented yet.
2268 2011-03-07 18:40:03 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I thought only i2p customizes #hops
2269 2011-03-07 18:40:14 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ...and then I have to restart bitcoind to change the fee value, right? :(
2270 2011-03-07 18:40:19 <Diablo-D3> xelister: tor defaults to 3, but you can do more or less
2271 2011-03-07 18:40:35 <xelister> Diablo-D3: the client sets this? while building route?
2272 2011-03-07 18:40:38 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: No, you could just make the payout smaller by the fee amount and redo the transaction.
2273 2011-03-07 18:40:41 <xelister> or is it decission of hops
2274 2011-03-07 18:40:41 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes.
2275 2011-03-07 18:40:48 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: bitcoin will happily pay the fee for you. :)
2276 2011-03-07 18:40:55 <xelister> Diablo-D3: but over 30 second long transport will timeout?
2277 2011-03-07 18:41:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you can change that too
2278 2011-03-07 18:41:09 <xelister> neato
2279 2011-03-07 18:41:09 <nanotube> gavinandresen: ah i see. cool. the faucet should do that. :) i hear it builds 0-conf tx chains for lack of conf balance.
2280 2011-03-07 18:41:10 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ah, ok. then... does it return the fee amount attached to my transaction?
2281 2011-03-07 18:41:12 <Diablo-D3> xelister: read the fucking manpage, noob
2282 2011-03-07 18:41:22 <xelister> Im too bussy writting'em
2283 2011-03-07 18:41:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it is difficult to automate the fee portion predictably...
2284 2011-03-07 18:41:28 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: being able to send like that is much easier
2285 2011-03-07 18:41:30 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: returns the transaction id, gettransaction will tell you the fee.
2286 2011-03-07 18:41:49 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: JSON-RPC always includes the fee automatically right now, FYI
2287 2011-03-07 18:41:54 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: no warning or error
2288 2011-03-07 18:41:54 <slush> gavinandresen: here
2289 2011-03-07 18:41:57 <slush> what's up?
2290 2011-03-07 18:42:00 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yep, it sure does.
2291 2011-03-07 18:42:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: you probably want to NOT have a fee included, and put it in your own blocks
2292 2011-03-07 18:42:21 <gavinandresen> slush: I'm looking for feedback on sendmulti RPC method to do pool payouts...
2293 2011-03-07 18:42:23 <nanotube> jgarzik: probably, as long as you keep each output at >.01, and use confirmed coins, you should be able to get away without having to pay a fee?
2294 2011-03-07 18:42:41 <jgarzik> nanotube: the mass-pay TX itself can be, singly, larger than the entire free-tx area
2295 2011-03-07 18:42:48 <nanotube> jgarzik: also, running the pool... you could always include your own tx into your own blocks, if other miners refuse :)
2296 2011-03-07 18:42:54 <nanotube> jgarzik: ah i see... that's true.
2297 2011-03-07 18:42:57 <nanotube> but see above
2298 2011-03-07 18:43:07 <jgarzik> I don't want to run a hacked bitcoind
2299 2011-03-07 18:43:15 <nanotube> mm
2300 2011-03-07 18:43:16 <luke-jr> nanotube: any tx with lots of recipients will be big, and require a fee per block-size
2301 2011-03-07 18:43:34 <BlueMatt> unless you apply my-free-tx in the pull requests
2302 2011-03-07 18:43:37 <jgarzik> running a hacked bitcoin implies some failure in the devel process, IMO
2303 2011-03-07 18:43:39 <BlueMatt> and make a block
2304 2011-03-07 18:43:46 <nanotube> luke-jr: it all depends on how many recipients, but yes, jgarzik mentioned that, i dig it. :)
2305 2011-03-07 18:43:49 <luke-jr> jgarzik: gavinandresen doesn't want to merge features not required for everyone
2306 2011-03-07 18:43:53 <gavinandresen> If you're putting a lot of transactions on the network you're going to have to pay a fee, there's really no way around that.
2307 2011-03-07 18:43:59 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: exactly
2308 2011-03-07 18:44:29 <gavinandresen> (and nanotube: the Bitcoin Faucet pays 0.01 per transaction... once there is sendmulti, maybe I'll bundle them up to save costs....)
2309 2011-03-07 18:44:44 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: erm
2310 2011-03-07 18:44:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: for example, one of the reasons for not merging myFreeTx (the code needed for putting fee-less tx of your own into your blocks) is that some people don't mine.
2311 2011-03-07 18:44:52 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: so... gettransaction shows fee implicitly, where top-level 'amount' will be, say, 0.01 BTC larger than 'amount' show in 'details' [] array?
2312 2011-03-07 18:44:58 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: sendmulti will quash sends to the same person, right?
2313 2011-03-07 18:45:16 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I thought it paid 0.0001?
2314 2011-03-07 18:45:59 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: it did for a little while, but I was being dumb
2315 2011-03-07 18:46:07 <Sedo> <gavinandresen> "you have to trust the mybitcoin.com won't take your coins or get taken over by a government that decides to freeze all accounts...." -> Im pretty ignorant about encryption, but could you not create a service in a way, that it stores your wallet, but can not decrypt it itself. So it needs the users sign for every transaction it submits or receives. And the user can quit/switch
2316 2011-03-07 18:46:08 <Sedo> to another service anytime (by transferring his wallet to another service)
2317 2011-03-07 18:46:23 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: gettransaction explicitly tells you fee
2318 2011-03-07 18:46:34 <gavinandresen> (unless i'm having another brain fart)
2319 2011-03-07 18:46:38 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: dumb?
2320 2011-03-07 18:46:51 <nanotube> gavinandresen: ah ok ic
2321 2011-03-07 18:46:56 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: IMO, it should use 1 raw unit (0.00000001 BTC)
2322 2011-03-07 18:47:09 <Kiba> 1 Satoshi!
2323 2011-03-07 18:47:17 <luke-jr> although that wouldn't meet my personal fee schedule, it should still get past the no-fee queued
2324 2011-03-07 18:47:27 <gavinandresen> Sedo: yes.
2325 2011-03-07 18:47:31 <slush> gavinandresen: RPC command which receive dictionary with wallet as key and amount as value is fine for me
2326 2011-03-07 18:47:38 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ah, indeed. gettransaction shows fee on all 'from me' (debit) transactions, but no others.
2327 2011-03-07 18:48:27 <slush> gavinandresen: the next version of bitcoin with
2328 2011-03-07 18:48:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: so the logic is: (1) mass-pay, (2) call gettransaction to see how much fee I was charged. And mass-pay will fail, if wallet cannot cover fee. Do I have that right? If yes, it seems workable to me.
2329 2011-03-07 18:49:19 <slush> gavinandresen: with full precision amounts will enable also fees smaller than 0.01 ?
2330 2011-03-07 18:49:48 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: yes
2331 2011-03-07 18:49:52 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: we'll need to change the list of standard transaction templates
2332 2011-03-07 18:50:18 <luke-jr> slush: I think that's already possible?
2333 2011-03-07 18:50:20 <gavinandresen> slush: yes, with 0.3.20 you can -paytxfee=0.0001 if you like (although that is still considered 'free' by the what-transactions-fit-in-a-block code)
2334 2011-03-07 18:50:33 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it is?
2335 2011-03-07 18:50:39 <luke-jr> since when?
2336 2011-03-07 18:50:44 <slush> gavinandresen: so why faucet send such fee?
2337 2011-03-07 18:50:47 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I think so. I may be brain farting again
2338 2011-03-07 18:50:48 <slush> if it don't help
2339 2011-03-07 18:50:59 <gavinandresen> slush: exactly! That's why the faucet is sending 0.01 now.
2340 2011-03-07 18:51:04 <slush> oh
2341 2011-03-07 18:52:56 <gavinandresen> All righty, it sounds like sendmulti (do you'll like sendmulti or sendmultiple ? I almost never care about names...) will work. Diablo-D3: I'm actually not sure what will happen if you put the same address in the to-pay list twice, that's a good question.
2342 2011-03-07 18:53:19 <gavinandresen> (probably it should throw an error if you try)
2343 2011-03-07 18:53:27 <slush> gavinandresen: why?
2344 2011-03-07 18:53:30 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: why?
2345 2011-03-07 18:53:35 <jgarzik> heh
2346 2011-03-07 18:53:35 <slush> it should send two transactions, no?
2347 2011-03-07 18:53:43 <BlueMatt> sendmultiple seems better, just stick to full names
2348 2011-03-07 18:53:52 <gavinandresen> Because {} means JSON dictionary, and a dictionary with duplicate keys is, potentially, trouble.
2349 2011-03-07 18:53:55 <jgarzik> slush: mass-pay just creates one transaction. so, it should create two tx-out's.
2350 2011-03-07 18:54:01 <slush> oh, good point
2351 2011-03-07 18:54:13 <slush> jgarzik: yes, I mean this
2352 2011-03-07 18:54:24 <slush> but the uniqueness of dict is good reason :)
2353 2011-03-07 18:54:31 <jgarzik> indeed ;)
2354 2011-03-07 18:54:39 <jgarzik> no reason why it couldn't be a []
2355 2011-03-07 18:54:52 <slush> [(),()] ?
2356 2011-03-07 18:55:01 <slush> list of lists/tuples?
2357 2011-03-07 18:55:03 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: should be sendmultiple because its a whole word
2358 2011-03-07 18:55:23 <gavinandresen> sendmany? sendplethora?
2359 2011-03-07 18:55:34 <jgarzik> sendassload
2360 2011-03-07 18:55:38 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298196
2361 2011-03-07 18:55:43 <gavinandresen> I prefer "crapload"
2362 2011-03-07 18:55:46 <gasteve> lol
2363 2011-03-07 18:55:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: sendmany has a nice ring to it
2364 2011-03-07 18:55:51 <Diablo-D3> amd btw
2365 2011-03-07 18:56:03 <jgarzik> {} is best, if we don't care about duplicate addresses
2366 2011-03-07 18:56:04 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: shouldnt an array be the input to send multiple?
2367 2011-03-07 18:56:25 <slush> yes, but sometimes it needs additional check on app side to avoid duplicities
2368 2011-03-07 18:56:30 <Diablo-D3> because "param" : { [ {,} , {,} ] } is legit
2369 2011-03-07 18:56:41 <jgarzik> otherwise you are probably looking at [ {address:foo, amount:12}, {address:foo, amount:11}, {address:bong, amount:11}]
2370 2011-03-07 18:56:47 <gavinandresen> Yeah, I hate lots of matched braces/parens/etc
2371 2011-03-07 18:57:02 <gavinandresen> (I like python, not lisp)
2372 2011-03-07 18:57:02 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: why do you care? its all marshalled by code
2373 2011-03-07 18:57:09 <slush> gavinandresen: I like the last proposal
2374 2011-03-07 18:57:11 <slush> of jgarzik
2375 2011-03-07 18:57:15 <jgarzik> car(car(cdr(car(foo))))
2376 2011-03-07 18:57:17 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: well thats assuming you need named stuff
2377 2011-03-07 18:57:29 <Diablo-D3> { foo, 12 } is saner
2378 2011-03-07 18:57:32 * jgarzik lisps
2379 2011-03-07 18:57:34 <slush> Diablo-D3: it is extendable
2380 2011-03-07 18:57:58 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: what's your preference again?
2381 2011-03-07 18:58:05 <slush> you have just list of independent transactions and every transaction can have various parameters
2382 2011-03-07 18:58:07 <gasteve> Kiba: I like that last sentence..."By the way, anyone can rent a cheap, on-demand GPU farm from Amazon"
2383 2011-03-07 18:58:15 <gasteve> guess they haven't done the math yet
2384 2011-03-07 18:58:22 <jgarzik> slush: ...except at the 'from' (sender) remains the same
2385 2011-03-07 18:58:35 <slush> jgarzik: yes
2386 2011-03-07 18:58:55 <Kiba> gasteve: does his comment have any merit?
2387 2011-03-07 18:59:02 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: No huge preference. Your original proposal was fine, or, this: [ {address:foo, amount:12}, {address:foo, amount:11}, {address:bong, amount:11} ]
2388 2011-03-07 18:59:28 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Since my original proposal is already coded.....
2389 2011-03-07 18:59:29 <gasteve> Kiba: well, he makes it sound really easy to take over and disrupt a peer to peer network
2390 2011-03-07 19:00:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: the latter can be extended later, as slush pointed out
2391 2011-03-07 19:00:15 <gavinandresen> ... I'll polish it up and submit a PULL request.
2392 2011-03-07 19:00:26 <slush> gavinandresen: I don't care much, all proposed solutions will do the work now, but list of dicts looks better
2393 2011-03-07 19:00:28 <luke-jr> bong is amount, not address
2394 2011-03-07 19:00:30 <luke-jr> :p
2395 2011-03-07 19:00:42 <jgarzik> luke-jr: it's also a water pipe for consuming marijuana
2396 2011-03-07 19:00:55 <jgarzik> according to the locals @ NCSU :)
2397 2011-03-07 19:01:00 <Kiba> so guys, does his comment have any merit?
2398 2011-03-07 19:01:13 <mmarker> jgarzik: a bong in a college dorm. NO. NEVER
2399 2011-03-07 19:01:52 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: went to /go to NCSU?
2400 2011-03-07 19:01:54 <gasteve> Kiba: the way that item is written, you could interpret him being either for or against bitcoins ...seems that was likely intentional
2401 2011-03-07 19:02:00 <gavinandresen> I think allowing one sendmany to generate multiple sends to the same address might cause issues with listtransactions -- you'll get same transaction ID, same address, potentially same amount, and that could confuse the heck out of your listransactions-processing code
2402 2011-03-07 19:02:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: me? No, I want to Georgia Tech. Red Hat's world HQ is @ NCSU campus, though.
2403 2011-03-07 19:02:21 <BlueMatt> ah
2404 2011-03-07 19:02:21 <jgarzik> s/want/went/
2405 2011-03-07 19:02:25 <Kiba> gasteve: umm...doesn't help me evaulate the comment
2406 2011-03-07 19:02:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that's a bug regardless
2407 2011-03-07 19:02:37 <gasteve> as for actually disrupting the network, well I think it's certainly possible...questions are around whether it's profitable or likely
2408 2011-03-07 19:02:43 <mmarker> jgarzik: Still that massive building IIRC (some of the Gimp people ended up there...)?
2409 2011-03-07 19:02:54 Spenvo has joined
2410 2011-03-07 19:03:13 <BlueMatt> slush: do you need sendmulti for the pool (would it help that much)?
2411 2011-03-07 19:03:14 <jgarzik> mmarker: RH stages a coup and took over more buildings. But now, we're looking at yet another massive building, because we're busting at the seams.
2412 2011-03-07 19:03:34 <mmarker> jgarzik: Jeez. Soon you'll take the whole place over.
2413 2011-03-07 19:03:43 <jgarzik> open source world domination!
2414 2011-03-07 19:03:47 <gasteve> the biggest question I have is what ensures that people are running well behaved clients and not ones that have some rogue code lurking in them and waiting to be activated
2415 2011-03-07 19:03:47 <slush> BlueMatt: Pool stop spamming the network with bunch of independent transactions
2416 2011-03-07 19:03:59 <slush> BlueMatt: and also processing will be probably slightly faster
2417 2011-03-07 19:04:02 <BlueMatt> slush: ah, ok then yea
2418 2011-03-07 19:04:03 <mmarker> I think I'm due for a visit. There's some 10 year cycle some of the old Gimp people are on for just random meetings. I think I'm past overdue.
2419 2011-03-07 19:04:11 <Kiba> so guys...
2420 2011-03-07 19:04:24 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298196
2421 2011-03-07 19:04:27 <Kiba> Nut or reasonable?
2422 2011-03-07 19:04:46 <jgarzik> Kiba: nut
2423 2011-03-07 19:04:51 <Kiba> how?
2424 2011-03-07 19:05:00 <gasteve> the way to attack the network, is basically like spreading a virus...get enough people running clients infected with some bad code and could do some bad things
2425 2011-03-07 19:05:14 <jgarzik> Kiba: already discussed on the forums. Amazon uses NV, and the math doesn't work as gasteve noted.
2426 2011-03-07 19:05:15 <mmarker> Yea, I can rent a GPU farm. After pricing it out, it's really not worth the effort.
2427 2011-03-07 19:05:27 <BlueMatt> slush: I was just thinking as to whether or not youve figured out if if is that much faster? And is one huge tx that much better for the network? Keeping in mind the sendmerklebranch might have to send more?
2428 2011-03-07 19:05:30 <Kiba> not his last comment..but his claim that you can disrupt the network
2429 2011-03-07 19:05:40 <gasteve> Kiba: I think it's someone just trying to get attention...but people should actively be thinking of ways to attack the network so that effective safe guards can be taken
2430 2011-03-07 19:05:41 <Kiba> and convince the peers of anything
2431 2011-03-07 19:05:51 <Kiba> gasteve: still not being helpful...
2432 2011-03-07 19:05:53 <Diablo-D3> wait
2433 2011-03-07 19:05:55 <Diablo-D3> the math?
2434 2011-03-07 19:06:02 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/j1iZ5tgk
2435 2011-03-07 19:06:03 <Diablo-D3> bam
2436 2011-03-07 19:06:04 <Diablo-D3> the math
2437 2011-03-07 19:06:11 <Diablo-D3> and thats not factoring in bitcoin itself
2438 2011-03-07 19:06:15 <Diablo-D3> just overall performance
2439 2011-03-07 19:06:21 <Diablo-D3> this is how stupid amazon is
2440 2011-03-07 19:06:29 <jgarzik> Kiba: you cannot create groups of "evil peers acknowledging transactions" without mining power... ie. getting your TX into a block chain
2441 2011-03-07 19:06:35 <gasteve> ok Kiba: I'll summarize, yes, it's conceivable someone could attack the network as he describes
2442 2011-03-07 19:06:36 <Kiba> jgarzik: thanks
2443 2011-03-07 19:06:43 Intruder533 has left ()
2444 2011-03-07 19:06:50 <Diablo-D3> the radeon beats the gtx 470/m2050 a few times more on bitcoin performance
2445 2011-03-07 19:06:51 <xelister> jgarzik: but
2446 2011-03-07 19:07:04 <xelister> evil pools can /discard/ transactions easly
2447 2011-03-07 19:07:05 <xelister> imo
2448 2011-03-07 19:07:10 <Diablo-D3> btw
2449 2011-03-07 19:07:12 <xelister> e.g. bun some buyer
2450 2011-03-07 19:07:12 <Diablo-D3> if I was a pool
2451 2011-03-07 19:07:16 <Diablo-D3> I'd discard transactions
2452 2011-03-07 19:07:17 <jgarzik> gasteve: no, it's not
2453 2011-03-07 19:07:18 <xelister> well it will just delay him... but still
2454 2011-03-07 19:07:22 <Diablo-D3> just to be a dick
2455 2011-03-07 19:07:25 <xelister> Diablo-D3: [19:58] <xelister> evil pools can /discard/ transactions easly
2456 2011-03-07 19:07:31 <Diablo-D3> not just some
2457 2011-03-07 19:07:32 <Diablo-D3> but all
2458 2011-03-07 19:07:35 <Kiba> jgarzik: that's because the longest chain are accepted as the most authorative?
2459 2011-03-07 19:07:35 <xelister> heh
2460 2011-03-07 19:07:37 <jgarzik> gasteve: without mining power to create blocks, "evil peers" aren't doing much except creating annoyance
2461 2011-03-07 19:07:51 <gasteve> jgarzik: the peers validate transaction...if you have control over enough of them, they could be made to accept anything you want
2462 2011-03-07 19:07:58 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: why would people join your pool? ;)
2463 2011-03-07 19:08:05 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: because my dick is huge
2464 2011-03-07 19:08:11 <gasteve> (validate blocks I meant...and the transactions inside)
2465 2011-03-07 19:08:14 <luke-jr> â¦
2466 2011-03-07 19:08:14 <Diablo-D3> I imagine most of my pool will be women.
2467 2011-03-07 19:08:15 <xelister> luke-jr: dickpeople from planet dong in Ati system
2468 2011-03-07 19:08:25 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you owe me a new soda
2469 2011-03-07 19:08:26 <Kiba> Only the longest blockchain are accepted as the most authorative, unless the evil peers have the most power can they discard transactions
2470 2011-03-07 19:08:32 <Kiba> that's right?
2471 2011-03-07 19:08:35 <xelister> =)
2472 2011-03-07 19:08:52 <Diablo-D3> so I have to figure out where I went wrong with my pool software
2473 2011-03-07 19:08:53 <jgarzik> evil peers can avoid relaying transactions or blocks
2474 2011-03-07 19:09:04 <BlueMatt> or if a peer can work its ass off making sure it is the only one you are conencted to
2475 2011-03-07 19:09:17 <jgarzik> but without being able to _mine_ blocks, a single leak (connection to non-evil node) will keep you connected to the "real" network
2476 2011-03-07 19:09:23 <BlueMatt> yea
2477 2011-03-07 19:09:30 <BlueMatt> hence it is really hard
2478 2011-03-07 19:09:46 <BlueMatt> though we do need to work a bit on making more outgoing connections and making incomming connections more diverse
2479 2011-03-07 19:09:53 <BlueMatt> its easier than it needs to be right now
2480 2011-03-07 19:09:53 <gasteve> jgarzik: but if you have control over enough peers, you can change any of the rules for block or transaction acceptance...but yes, I think it would be really hard
2481 2011-03-07 19:10:18 <gasteve> BlueMatt: yes
2482 2011-03-07 19:10:20 <jgarzik> gasteve: that's irrelevant if the victim won't accept such bogus tx or block
2483 2011-03-07 19:10:44 <gasteve> it's effective if your goal is to undermine confidence in the system
2484 2011-03-07 19:10:51 <jgarzik> gasteve: and a peer "changes the rules for block" IF AND ONLY IF they can mine and create blocks
2485 2011-03-07 19:11:06 <jgarzik> gasteve: I don't think you've thought this through :)
2486 2011-03-07 19:11:20 <gasteve> ok...so get control over enough of the network and reduce the difficulty to zero
2487 2011-03-07 19:11:39 <Kiba> jgarzik: create the longest blockchain, no?
2488 2011-03-07 19:11:44 <gasteve> how many blocks can you create then?
2489 2011-03-07 19:12:06 <gasteve> anyway...I don't disagree that this attack would be exceeding difficult
2490 2011-03-07 19:12:18 <jgarzik> gasteve: how, precisely, does one "get control over enough of the network and reduce the difficulty to zero" ?
2491 2011-03-07 19:12:25 <jgarzik> if I assume pigs can fly, then 1 + 1 == 3
2492 2011-03-07 19:13:02 <gasteve> convince enough people to run some silly widget loaded with a virus that patches your bitcoin client
2493 2011-03-07 19:13:13 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298210
2494 2011-03-07 19:13:16 <Kiba> that's reasonable, right?
2495 2011-03-07 19:13:18 <jgarzik> gasteve: ineffective
2496 2011-03-07 19:13:29 <Kiba> my reply
2497 2011-03-07 19:13:30 <Kiba> that is
2498 2011-03-07 19:14:01 <gasteve> jgarzik: but not inconceivable right?
2499 2011-03-07 19:14:31 <Kiba> lala. Help me?
2500 2011-03-07 19:14:34 <Aciid> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4251.0
2501 2011-03-07 19:14:44 <Aciid> a wild pool appears
2502 2011-03-07 19:14:51 <jgarzik> gasteve: to get control over most major networks on the Internet? (because bitcoin looks for host diversity) Quite unlikely.
2503 2011-03-07 19:15:03 <gasteve> Kiba: you seem to be looking for a simple answer to a question for which there is none
2504 2011-03-07 19:15:11 <Kiba> wrong
2505 2011-03-07 19:15:16 <molecular> kiba, your reply seems resonable to me
2506 2011-03-07 19:15:16 <Kiba> I am looking for a correct reply
2507 2011-03-07 19:16:14 <gasteve> jgarzik: explain the host diversity
2508 2011-03-07 19:16:34 <molecular> well, an attack on p2p infrastructure with "millions of identities" _could_ cause considerable trouble, no? dont know if your reply debunks that scenario sufficiently.
2509 2011-03-07 19:17:02 <x6763> Kiba: isn't it supposed to be 2016 blocks, not 2100? and aren't the gpu farms using 5970's instead of 5870's?
2510 2011-03-07 19:17:05 <molecular> such an attack might not screw up the blockchain, but it might well disrupt service
2511 2011-03-07 19:17:31 <jgarzik> molecular: our network doesn't use "identities" besides the network addresses themselves. which would imply an attacker needs access to millions of network addresses. which implies that it is =extremely= unlikely that the attacker will have access to, e.g. multiple /16's
2512 2011-03-07 19:17:49 <jgarzik> gasteve: bitcoin tries to spread connections across network blocks
2513 2011-03-07 19:18:14 <molecular> maybe sipa's answer should adresse exactly that point, jgarzic
2514 2011-03-07 19:18:17 <molecular> jgarzik
2515 2011-03-07 19:18:23 <jgarzik> gasteve: so an attacker cannot just create a million bitcoin instances on his own network
2516 2011-03-07 19:18:46 <Kiba> x6763: sorry for the minor inaccuracy
2517 2011-03-07 19:18:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: for incomming connections? yes, for outgoing, no
2518 2011-03-07 19:19:07 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Outgoing connections only make 1 per /16
2519 2011-03-07 19:19:22 <BlueMatt> though that is only 8 at initial startup, which is not ideal...
2520 2011-03-07 19:19:39 <x6763> Kiba: no problem, just thought i'd ask you about in case you wanted to correct it
2521 2011-03-07 19:19:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I hack my outgoing max to 100 :)
2522 2011-03-07 19:19:47 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceg6NQKHd70
2523 2011-03-07 19:19:50 <gasteve> so, that's diversity in terms of network addresses...but not really diversity in terms of the code those nodes are running...so, if a virus spread sufficiently enough, this diversity wouldn't be an effective defense
2524 2011-03-07 19:19:51 <Diablo-D3> holy shit
2525 2011-03-07 19:20:03 <jgarzik> though I run -nolisten -noirc
2526 2011-03-07 19:20:07 <BlueMatt> gasteve: true, we need more clients first though
2527 2011-03-07 19:20:11 <Kiba> jgarzik: so, only IP addresses
2528 2011-03-07 19:20:39 <molecular> kiba, maybe add something like: "an well-planned attack on the p2p network infrastructure could possibly disrupt bitcoin transaction services, it will not however make money disappear or enable the attacker to steal money"
2529 2011-03-07 19:21:36 <Kiba> anybody wants to vouch for molecular's statement?
2530 2011-03-07 19:23:07 <BlueMatt> mostly
2531 2011-03-07 19:23:20 <BlueMatt> though it would have to be VERY well planed and executed
2532 2011-03-07 19:23:37 <BlueMatt> though if its done perfectly, they could make you believe you have money for a period of time
2533 2011-03-07 19:23:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it won't show in balance until at least 1 confirmation
2534 2011-03-07 19:24:22 <gasteve> I don't know...I'm not yet convinced...first, a virus spreading would allow people access to private keys, but there are many other ways people could steal keys...and second, undermining the perceived integrity of the bitcoin network undermines its value and hence does effectively steal *wealth*
2535 2011-03-07 19:24:37 <mmarker> Diablo: I have to send that to the Belgians I know. My head just assploded.
2536 2011-03-07 19:25:03 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: you should see the dent I made for that
2537 2011-03-07 19:25:05 <jgarzik> gasteve: absolutely, a virus can steal wallets and private keys. But the ycombinator thing was talking about attacking the P2P network.
2538 2011-03-07 19:25:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I was referring to owning all your connections and the ability to generate a block or two
2539 2011-03-07 19:25:16 <Diablo-D3> http://identi.ca/notice/66361987
2540 2011-03-07 19:25:19 <gasteve> but, despite what I've said, I still have a high degree of confidence in where things stand and this stage of evolution
2541 2011-03-07 19:25:38 <Kiba> so...
2542 2011-03-07 19:26:23 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298210
2543 2011-03-07 19:26:37 <mmarker> I'd have to agree.
2544 2011-03-07 19:28:02 <Kiba> good reply, or bad reply?
2545 2011-03-07 19:28:06 <farzong> ArtForz is a genius.. this python script is awesome
2546 2011-03-07 19:28:15 <BlueMatt> its right, good post
2547 2011-03-07 19:28:24 <molecular> farzong, what python script?
2548 2011-03-07 19:29:06 <nanotube> gavinandresen: fwiw, i think throwing an error on duplicate addresses in sendmultiple is saner. because chances are it was included in error.
2549 2011-03-07 19:29:31 <nanotube> i don't see any sane reason to duplicate addresses in sendmultiple.
2550 2011-03-07 19:29:44 <molecular> kiba: grammar fail: "it will be possible to disrupt transaction in the bitcoin network attempt, ..."
2551 2011-03-07 19:29:49 <BlueMatt> plus that would be better for the network
2552 2011-03-07 19:29:58 <BlueMatt> smaller txes
2553 2011-03-07 19:30:22 <gavinandresen> nanotube: thanks (I acutally just coded that check...)
2554 2011-03-07 19:30:34 <gavinandresen> (and changed the name to sendmany)
2555 2011-03-07 19:30:43 <gasteve> Kiba: in any case, it sounds like the person that wrote that doesn't really understand even the basics of how the block chain works
2556 2011-03-07 19:30:57 <molecular> gasteve, I have to agree, he doesn't get it
2557 2011-03-07 19:31:04 <nanotube> gavinandresen: cool :)
2558 2011-03-07 19:31:30 <ArtForz> err, too lazy to read scrollback, can I get the cliff notes version?
2559 2011-03-07 19:32:17 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: sendmultiple can send to multiple recipients in one tx in one command
2560 2011-03-07 19:32:30 <ArtForz> sounds good
2561 2011-03-07 19:32:48 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: just debates on small implementation specifics pretty much
2562 2011-03-07 19:33:24 <ArtForz> ahh, k
2563 2011-03-07 19:34:32 <Kiba> molecular: noticed that on my own..fixed it
2564 2011-03-07 19:35:09 <Kiba> gasteve: bitcoin's many details are hard to understand
2565 2011-03-07 19:35:22 <ArtForz> yes
2566 2011-03-07 19:35:36 <gasteve> has anyone created a nicely packaged, scriptable library of tools for managing wallets, payments, network queries, etc? surely with all the websites that have ben plugged into the network people have done some work in this direction
2567 2011-03-07 19:36:08 <x6763> ;;bc,stats
2568 2011-03-07 19:36:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112569 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 326 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 8 hours, 30 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77751.25835007
2569 2011-03-07 19:37:05 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2570 2011-03-07 19:37:19 <ArtForz> paraphrasing steve gibson: "it's pretty complex, but it has to be"
2571 2011-03-07 19:37:33 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2572 2011-03-07 19:37:33 Zib has joined
2573 2011-03-07 19:38:08 <gasteve> Kiba: despite that fact (and it's true), people will defer to the judgement of others they trust that have analyzed the system and believe it to be sound
2574 2011-03-07 19:38:47 <BlueMatt> its really quite elegant for what it does
2575 2011-03-07 19:38:58 <BlueMatt> its not as complicated as it sure as hell could be
2576 2011-03-07 19:39:02 <Kiba> Steve Gibson explained it best in my opinion
2577 2011-03-07 19:39:10 <BlueMatt> he typically does a pretty good job
2578 2011-03-07 19:39:26 <gasteve> heh...yeah...I was just about to say...for what it does, it's actually remarkably simple
2579 2011-03-07 19:39:38 <jgarzik> hrm
2580 2011-03-07 19:39:48 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298331
2581 2011-03-07 19:39:50 <jgarzik> I think I need to write a JSON-to-CSV conversion for my wallet, to import into gnucash
2582 2011-03-07 19:40:06 <gasteve> I think the hard part is understanding the dynamic of the network, not the underlying structure and implementation
2583 2011-03-07 19:40:13 <gasteve> *dynamic
2584 2011-03-07 19:40:31 <gasteve> *dynamics (fingers not working)
2585 2011-03-07 19:40:45 <BlueMatt> I agree
2586 2011-03-07 19:41:50 <gasteve> (side note: I loved that expression on the forum today: "Sorry, I can't brain today. I have the dumb.")
2587 2011-03-07 19:41:53 <BlueMatt> Kiba: in reference to his ipv6 post: ipv6 is not currently implemented and when it is network diversity stuff will be based on network, not on individual address
2588 2011-03-07 19:42:51 <Kiba> it seem to me it have nothing to do with bitcoin nodes
2589 2011-03-07 19:44:01 <farzong> there is the issue of MITM attacks...
2590 2011-03-07 19:44:35 <farzong> ie a firewall could announce a chain that wasnt actuallyt he longest and within the firewall youd be out of synch
2591 2011-03-07 19:44:39 <farzong> like china's great firewall
2592 2011-03-07 19:44:45 <mmarker> jgarzik: Yea, pumping the data into my spreadsheet is a PITA
2593 2011-03-07 19:44:48 <jgarzik> Kiba: the respondent has confused bitcoin addresses with P2P identities
2594 2011-03-07 19:44:59 <Kiba> jgarzik: that what I thought too
2595 2011-03-07 19:45:04 <BlueMatt> farzong: good point, but if you have a fw which is feeding you bogus data, you have bigger problems than a bad bitcoin chain
2596 2011-03-07 19:45:13 <Kiba> but I take your answer as a better one
2597 2011-03-07 19:45:17 <mmarker> oh, and sorry for the messy code. It's been a while since I've done shell for autoconf.
2598 2011-03-07 19:45:17 <jgarzik> Kiba: and is further unaware that IP address transactions are deprecated and disabled by default (they are known insecure)
2599 2011-03-07 19:45:55 <farzong> BlueMatt: quite right, but its fixable with a hybrid strategy of only listening to chains published by sources you decide to trust (that is, have the chain be signed)
2600 2011-03-07 19:46:04 <jgarzik> farzong: it's always possible to confuse a network peer, if you control 100% of the entire network view of the victim
2601 2011-03-07 19:46:04 <nanotube> jgarzik: json to csv should be pretty straightforward to make, as long as you know what fields you want in your csv.
2602 2011-03-07 19:46:07 <Kiba> jgarzik: I said last time the network relies only on IP identities
2603 2011-03-07 19:46:15 <BlueMatt> farzong: the point of bitcoin is its decentralized, so signing isnt an option
2604 2011-03-07 19:46:21 <Kiba> err addresses
2605 2011-03-07 19:46:30 <ArtForz> I think he's advocating something WoT-like
2606 2011-03-07 19:46:42 <BlueMatt> farzong: though, there are places to dl the legitimate chain on the forums via https
2607 2011-03-07 19:46:43 <farzong> BlueMatt: doesnt need a central CA tho.. imagina i give you a key fob with my public key, now you can use that fob anywhere and no man-in-the-middle-attack is possible
2608 2011-03-07 19:46:53 <ArtForz> sounds a bit like darknet-meet-WoT
2609 2011-03-07 19:47:04 <BlueMatt> farzong: oh, and the chinese great fw has its own ca for those who it wants to confuse
2610 2011-03-07 19:47:30 <BlueMatt> farzong: not a bad idea, though network load might be a problem...
2611 2011-03-07 19:47:39 <farzong> right, but i dont have to trust it.. the idea of downloading the chain from someone you trust is actually quite essential
2612 2011-03-07 19:47:44 <BlueMatt> farzong: though, for those who need it a forked client via ssl/etc would be quite nice
2613 2011-03-07 19:47:53 Lachesis has joined
2614 2011-03-07 19:47:56 <BlueMatt> just for connections, that is
2615 2011-03-07 19:48:06 <jgarzik> farzong: as long as you have the official client, most of the block chain is locked down by hash anyway
2616 2011-03-07 19:48:20 <jgarzik> farzong: so downloading the client from someone trust is more essential
2617 2011-03-07 19:48:51 <farzong> yes wherever you get the chan from and new blocks
2618 2011-03-07 19:49:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: even over SSL, you can still observe that the client behaves like a bitcoin P2P node, without some serious network retooling.
2619 2011-03-07 19:49:54 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: true though I meant more along the lines of connect to three or four https/ssl servers which will send you the block chain
2620 2011-03-07 19:49:59 <BlueMatt> or whatever you really want to do
2621 2011-03-07 19:50:01 <gasteve> jgarzik: actually, using a web of trust for the client code is probably *most* essential
2622 2011-03-07 19:50:15 <jgarzik> gasteve: yes
2623 2011-03-07 19:50:50 <Kiba> even if someone hijacked enough hashrate power to overcome 50%, it would still be very noticable?
2624 2011-03-07 19:51:04 <gasteve> using a web of trust for the actual peer-2-peer connections (as some have suggested) is a risky idea ...could lead to a centralization of power over the network
2625 2011-03-07 19:51:23 <phantomcircuit> why would you need a wot anyways?
2626 2011-03-07 19:51:38 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2627 2011-03-07 19:52:51 <farzong> yo wouldnt want china intercepting all connections over port 8333 and misrepresenting the chain (saying its shorter or longer than it really is in the rest of the world)
2628 2011-03-07 19:53:17 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: some have suggested it as a way to prevent someone from gaining control over the p2p network...but I think, what you really need is a way to ensure people can be confident in the code they run on the network...you want to ensure there is a huge number of people running well behaved clients
2629 2011-03-07 19:53:24 <phantomcircuit> farzong, they're gonna be able to do that regardless of whether you have a WOT
2630 2011-03-07 19:53:41 <phantomcircuit> since they can completely segment the p2p network anyways
2631 2011-03-07 19:53:52 <ArtForz> question is, can they do that...
2632 2011-03-07 19:54:08 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, i dont see any way to stop them if they really want to
2633 2011-03-07 19:54:14 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2634 2011-03-07 19:54:25 <farzong> phantomcircuit: well MITM isn't possible in a publickey system (if the clients had keys of trusted super-peers or whatever, china couldn't lie. it could restrict ocmmunication but it couldn't corrupt the chain)
2635 2011-03-07 19:54:29 <phantomcircuit> running over tor/i2p/freenet would make it much harder for them to do so though
2636 2011-03-07 19:54:33 zylche has joined
2637 2011-03-07 19:54:40 mekel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2638 2011-03-07 19:54:49 <phantomcircuit> farzong, uh so how do you handle super peers being down?
2639 2011-03-07 19:54:52 <phantomcircuit> refuse to run?
2640 2011-03-07 19:55:08 <ArtForz> if you can't reach *any* ... yeah
2641 2011-03-07 19:55:18 <farzong> phantomcircuit: web of trust, reputation. there are some ways to make it diffuse
2642 2011-03-07 19:55:25 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: agree...the network issues can be solved with existing technologies like tor/i2p/freenet
2643 2011-03-07 19:55:31 <ArtForz> yep
2644 2011-03-07 19:55:39 <gasteve> that's a problem that bitcoin itself doesn't need to solve
2645 2011-03-07 19:56:10 satamusic has joined
2646 2011-03-07 19:56:11 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
2647 2011-03-07 19:56:11 satamusic has joined
2648 2011-03-07 19:56:32 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2298385
2649 2011-03-07 19:56:33 <gasteve> (well, except to make it possible or easy to run btc with tor/i2p/freenet)
2650 2011-03-07 19:56:38 <farzong> i dont think its a huge deal, but without any regard for reputation of the chain-publisher, an ISP/govt could corrupt the chain for all its users
2651 2011-03-07 19:56:44 <Kiba> is my comment good?
2652 2011-03-07 19:57:02 Myckel has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2653 2011-03-07 19:57:06 <ArtForz> I can also see benefits of a darknet-style network re flood resistance
2654 2011-03-07 19:57:46 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2655 2011-03-07 19:57:50 <mmarker> Hmm. I should write a bridge module for the dn42 net I'm on
2656 2011-03-07 19:57:59 * jgarzik wonders if dnssec has reached .net or .com yet
2657 2011-03-07 19:57:59 <gavinandresen> sendmany pull request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/106 I'll start a forum thread for any discussion
2658 2011-03-07 19:58:07 <ArtForz> but imo thats something better left for a future bitcoinv2 or something
2659 2011-03-07 19:58:10 <Kiba> hmm
2660 2011-03-07 19:58:35 <Kiba> so...
2661 2011-03-07 19:59:04 <jgarzik> yeah, BTCv2 with RSASSA-PSS instead of ECDSA sigs, SHA-3 hash algo, and no script engine
2662 2011-03-07 19:59:09 <farzong> nodes want to know if they reside within a hostile network, so they will discount what their low-reputation neighbors are saying
2663 2011-03-07 19:59:24 <Kiba> lala. Anybody verify?
2664 2011-03-07 19:59:59 <farzong> but given stegano / tor / freenet etc. finding the trusted chain will be very easy even in highly hostile networks
2665 2011-03-07 19:59:59 <mmarker> jgarzik: RSASSA-PSS?
2666 2011-03-07 20:00:02 <luke-jr> jgarzik: the script engine is a potential strength
2667 2011-03-07 20:00:05 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the hash algorithm is basically set in stone forever
2668 2011-03-07 20:00:20 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: in this block chain, yes
2669 2011-03-07 20:00:21 <phantomcircuit> i cant think of any way to switch the block chain to a new hashing algorithm
2670 2011-03-07 20:00:34 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: if everyone upgrades, no problem
2671 2011-03-07 20:00:39 <mmarker> oh, something funky and new
2672 2011-03-07 20:00:49 <BlueMatt> just agree to a point where the old hash works, then go on
2673 2011-03-07 20:00:51 <phantomcircuit> uh and everybody who has mined btc has no more btc?
2674 2011-03-07 20:00:53 <phantomcircuit> good luck with that
2675 2011-03-07 20:00:53 <mmarker> jgarzik: does it pass RH/Fedora's patent issue?
2676 2011-03-07 20:00:59 <jgarzik> luke-jr: the script engine is (a) mostly disabled, thus (b) unwarranted complexity
2677 2011-03-07 20:01:02 <jgarzik> mmarker: yes
2678 2011-03-07 20:01:36 <mmarker> jgarzik: Hmm, so how would one transition to a new mode for figuring out blocks?
2679 2011-03-07 20:01:40 <Kiba> I am assuming that the silence meant that my comment is alright?
2680 2011-03-07 20:02:00 <gasteve> what was the original idea behind the script engine? was it an attempt at generalization? I've read some proposals for generalization (i.e. bitDNS) and while I like those ideas, I believe they should stay out of the core bitcoin code base and bitcoin should focus just on the integrity of the monetary properties it provides
2681 2011-03-07 20:02:00 <luke-jr> jgarzik: to an extent, it allows upgrading the protocol
2682 2011-03-07 20:02:12 <farzong> you would up the "version number" on the block and invalid clients would choke at that point telling ppl to upgrade
2683 2011-03-07 20:02:16 <jgarzik> mmarker: but the genesis was more things like... http://www.freearchive.org/o/907da43df4038f882bf25159cb3f26708735a60f3bff881372b3bb8f6cf677be
2684 2011-03-07 20:02:18 <jgarzik> slide 19
2685 2011-03-07 20:02:27 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, it allows for neat things like escrow entirely in btc
2686 2011-03-07 20:02:27 <luke-jr> for example, you could add bytecode for SHA-512 addresses to the existing BitCoin network
2687 2011-03-07 20:02:27 <jgarzik> 135_crypto1hr.pdf
2688 2011-03-07 20:02:51 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that doesn't make sense: escrow requires a mediator
2689 2011-03-07 20:02:55 <xelister> or just make the new-rules be used say when date>2012.01.01
2690 2011-03-07 20:03:05 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you could get something akin to escrow
2691 2011-03-07 20:03:11 <luke-jr> you could do clearcoin for sure
2692 2011-03-07 20:03:14 <luke-jr> I think
2693 2011-03-07 20:03:22 <farzong> in pricinple the same web of trust could send you the new hashing algorithm to use
2694 2011-03-07 20:03:28 <phantomcircuit> clearcoin?
2695 2011-03-07 20:03:28 <farzong> or your peers
2696 2011-03-07 20:03:35 <luke-jr> probably could write a script that says "X address is valid after 1 month; until then, Y address"
2697 2011-03-07 20:03:45 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: https://clearcoin.appspot.com/
2698 2011-03-07 20:04:10 <jgarzik> xelister: if block > 200000 { new rules } else { old rules }
2699 2011-03-07 20:04:40 <xelister> yeap
2700 2011-03-07 20:06:40 <mmarker> jgarzik: Still gives you a sticky issue w.r.t. patent issues, since you'd still need to grok ECDSA...but my guess is that us early adopeters know how to work around that, and just going forward, opening it to a wider userbase would be an overall win. Just painful for us using it now.
2701 2011-03-07 20:07:04 lolcat has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2702 2011-03-07 20:07:38 <jgarzik> mmarker: I would rather a new codebase and block chain, and let the two simply exist independently of each other
2703 2011-03-07 20:07:45 <jgarzik> make a clean break, and each will have its own value
2704 2011-03-07 20:07:58 <jgarzik> miners choose which block chain(s) to support
2705 2011-03-07 20:08:17 sabalaba has joined
2706 2011-03-07 20:08:26 <jgarzik> eventually there -will- be multiple, active, supported block chains out there in them thar multiverse
2707 2011-03-07 20:09:08 <jgarzik> will btcv1 always be the strongest block chain? it's entirely possible. but competition is inevitable.
2708 2011-03-07 20:09:22 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, why?
2709 2011-03-07 20:09:29 <molecular> kiba, read your comment before. it's good. but I think this guy is a lot of work.
2710 2011-03-07 20:09:52 <molecular> kiba, he should read and think first
2711 2011-03-07 20:10:03 <molecular> kiba, of course you can't tell him that easily ;)
2712 2011-03-07 20:10:04 <phantomcircuit> lol i just realized why my block connector isn't working
2713 2011-03-07 20:10:09 <phantomcircuit> i forgot the genesis block
2714 2011-03-07 20:10:10 <phantomcircuit> fail
2715 2011-03-07 20:10:15 <mmarker> jgarzik: Interesting. I was looking at it as to how to keep the BTCs from one protocol to another.
2716 2011-03-07 20:10:57 <farzong> is it easy to run bitcoin over tor
2717 2011-03-07 20:11:19 <phantomcircuit> farzong, it could be easier if it supported socks5
2718 2011-03-07 20:11:20 <phantomcircuit> lol
2719 2011-03-07 20:11:31 <phantomcircuit> actually that's a pretty easy patch socks5 isn't complicated at all
2720 2011-03-07 20:11:35 <mmarker> phantomcircuit: how about incoming connections?
2721 2011-03-07 20:12:18 sabalabas has joined
2722 2011-03-07 20:12:20 <phantomcircuit> mmarker, for .onion addresses?
2723 2011-03-07 20:12:26 <phantomcircuit> i think that's still relatively easy
2724 2011-03-07 20:12:30 <farzong> yeah s5 is pretty easy to add on libsocks5
2725 2011-03-07 20:12:42 <phantomcircuit> farzong, use a library for socks5? please
2726 2011-03-07 20:12:50 <phantomcircuit> it's like 4 messages
2727 2011-03-07 20:12:53 <mmarker> phantomcircuit: you can do that.
2728 2011-03-07 20:12:57 <phantomcircuit> the entire rfc is only like 4 pages long
2729 2011-03-07 20:12:58 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2730 2011-03-07 20:13:10 <farzong> true
2731 2011-03-07 20:13:11 <mmarker> but the problem is the way the client works now...it uses an encodec version of the IP address
2732 2011-03-07 20:13:15 <ArtForz> yep
2733 2011-03-07 20:13:42 <ArtForz> unless you want to only be able to hand it a .onion for -connect, we'd need a new addr() message
2734 2011-03-07 20:13:49 <jgarzik> may I just state for the record that boost's idea of threads is a PITA
2735 2011-03-07 20:14:01 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, easy enough, just create a new command
2736 2011-03-07 20:14:02 <mmarker> You may have to have the client dial out, connect to IRC, make connections, then drop from IRC to keep other clients from getting confused.
2737 2011-03-07 20:14:06 tg has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2738 2011-03-07 20:14:08 <phantomcircuit> addrv2 or something
2739 2011-03-07 20:14:18 <phantomcircuit> would still be backwards compatible
2740 2011-03-07 20:14:20 <Kiba> molecular: blah, I don't like doing this
2741 2011-03-07 20:14:39 <Kiba> for the love of Eris, there's tons of discussion of attack vector on the bitcoin forum
2742 2011-03-07 20:14:43 <mmarker> artforz: Could you use a keepalive for a TORed client to keep connections alive...or would that just cause too much load
2743 2011-03-07 20:14:44 <gasteve> regarding a new block chain...to gain adoption, I think it would need to leverage the user base of the existing bitcoin block chain...so, I think the likely course of events would be that if there is some serious advancement in the techology, a new block chain would start, it would be as compatible as possible with the old, and people would be able to bring coins into existence in the new chain by exchanging bitcoins for them...the bitcoins woul
2744 2011-03-07 20:14:44 <gasteve> sent to some address that destroys the private keys forever and brings the new coins into existence...handling destruction would be tricky, but not impossible (and bitcoin itself might even need to be updated to have coin destruction transactions...to prepare bitcoin for it's own demise in a sense)
2745 2011-03-07 20:14:45 <phantomcircuit> lol there are clients announcing private ips
2746 2011-03-07 20:15:07 <phantomcircuit> there are some speedstream modems that have their own private ip space
2747 2011-03-07 20:15:11 <ArtForz> gasteve: desctruction is easy
2748 2011-03-07 20:15:29 <gasteve> ArtForz: how so?
2749 2011-03-07 20:15:51 <x6763> .onion addresses are 16 bytes (excluding the ".onion" part) like ipv6 addresses...you might be able to just change the "services" value of the addr command to specify that it's a Tor address
2750 2011-03-07 20:15:51 <ArtForz> create a unsignable output cscript
2751 2011-03-07 20:15:54 Zib has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2752 2011-03-07 20:16:05 Myckel has joined
2753 2011-03-07 20:16:07 <phantomcircuit> mmarker, there is already a keep alive, but it only fires every 30 minutes iirc
2754 2011-03-07 20:16:23 <mmarker> phantomcircuit: Dunno how long Tor tries to keep a tunnel up
2755 2011-03-07 20:16:30 <mmarker> probably not anything close to 30 min
2756 2011-03-07 20:16:35 <phantomcircuit> almost certainly less than 30 minutes
2757 2011-03-07 20:16:38 <xelister> jgarzik: why PITA ?
2758 2011-03-07 20:16:39 <gasteve> ArtForz: but how do you verify that it's unsignable?
2759 2011-03-07 20:16:42 <ArtForz> easy
2760 2011-03-07 20:16:46 <phantomcircuit> my python client sends a ping every 30 seconds
2761 2011-03-07 20:16:49 <x6763> sorry, not the "addr" command, but the network address data type
2762 2011-03-07 20:16:52 <phantomcircuit> it's like 12 byts
2763 2011-03-07 20:16:54 <phantomcircuit> whatever
2764 2011-03-07 20:16:58 <ArtForz> require it to be of the form "push newchainaddr; push false; return;"
2765 2011-03-07 20:17:53 tg has joined
2766 2011-03-07 20:18:24 <gasteve> ok (I will need to go study a bit more before I understand it)
2767 2011-03-07 20:18:39 <phantomcircuit> so who can commit to the mainline client on github?
2768 2011-03-07 20:18:46 <farzong> what about lag between different segments. A pays B in china and simultaneously pays C in brazil. B and C see that A has funds simultaneously, only later when both transactions bubble up is the double spend identified by the nodes in the middle of the web
2769 2011-03-07 20:19:09 <ArtForz> yes
2770 2011-03-07 20:19:31 <ArtForz> thats why you require X confirms on transactions
2771 2011-03-07 20:19:36 <Diablo-D3> thats why... yeah
2772 2011-03-07 20:19:38 <farzong> ahh great
2773 2011-03-07 20:19:56 <ArtForz> if an attacker can keep the network split for longer than X, you're pretty much SOL
2774 2011-03-07 20:19:59 <gasteve> but, if correct, it's good...and I think bitcoins are essentially future proof...anyone wanting to start a new chain would w ant to leverage the existing value association with the bitcoin chains (they have an economic incentive to do so)
2775 2011-03-07 20:20:17 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2776 2011-03-07 20:20:27 <gasteve> *associated
2777 2011-03-07 20:20:59 <phantomcircuit> it's too bad satoshi didn't include other hashes in the block header
2778 2011-03-07 20:21:12 <ArtForz> what other hashes?
2779 2011-03-07 20:21:25 <gasteve> and, people would have an incentive to migrate to the new chain (since presumably it would offer some advantages of some sort)
2780 2011-03-07 20:21:41 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, actually i guess it wouldnt really matter
2781 2011-03-07 20:27:30 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2782 2011-03-07 20:27:57 int0x27h has joined
2783 2011-03-07 20:29:37 <xelister> after double spending was done to A and B, and they already spend it further A->C, B->D, then who keeps the money when doublespending information distributes? C or D ?
2784 2011-03-07 20:29:50 <molecular> hmmm. my client is behind a NAT and 8333 is forwarded to it from the router. what IP will it announce?
2785 2011-03-07 20:29:52 <xelister> for a very long split or something
2786 2011-03-07 20:30:00 <xelister> afair they both?
2787 2011-03-07 20:30:06 <ArtForz> depends on which of ->A or ->B gets into the chain
2788 2011-03-07 20:30:39 <luke-jr> xelister: in practice, C and D both keep it, and one of A or B is out of the money
2789 2011-03-07 20:30:40 <phantomcircuit> which ever chain is longer
2790 2011-03-07 20:30:43 <xelister> ArtForz: and the miner seeing the doublespending will decide to include which one in block it produces? random? in order of arrival?
2791 2011-03-07 20:30:51 <ArtForz> order of arrival
2792 2011-03-07 20:31:26 <ArtForz> molecular: your external IP, iirc it uses the IP the IRC server sees when you connect
2793 2011-03-07 20:31:46 <xelister> luke-jr: so your or ArtForz version?
2794 2011-03-07 20:31:48 <ArtForz> unless you run -noirc, I think then it uses a whatismyip-like website
2795 2011-03-07 20:32:05 <luke-jr> xelister: depends on the circumstances
2796 2011-03-07 20:32:11 <luke-jr> xelister: in most cases, as I described it
2797 2011-03-07 20:32:13 <xelister> it should read USK@..../whatismyip/ to be more secure!
2798 2011-03-07 20:32:23 <ArtForz> one of C or D gets to keep it
2799 2011-03-07 20:33:04 <luke-jr> ArtForz: in most cases, A/B will be sending from their older coins, not the ones that aren't confirmed
2800 2011-03-07 20:33:08 <xelister> =)
2801 2011-03-07 20:33:24 <ArtForz> well, then yeah
2802 2011-03-07 20:34:48 <ArtForz> then the tx to C and D stay valid, and A or B loses depending on which of x->A and x->B gets into the chain first
2803 2011-03-07 20:35:10 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2804 2011-03-07 20:36:41 dabron has joined
2805 2011-03-07 20:39:07 <mizerydearia> What is the name for study of banks in college?
2806 2011-03-07 20:40:14 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2807 2011-03-07 20:40:42 doublec has joined
2808 2011-03-07 20:40:43 doublec has quit (Changing host)
2809 2011-03-07 20:40:43 doublec has joined
2810 2011-03-07 20:40:49 <EvanR-work> bankology
2811 2011-03-07 20:40:59 * EvanR-work trades marks that
2812 2011-03-07 20:41:06 <mizerydearia> EvanR-work, no wikipedia page for it
2813 2011-03-07 20:41:13 <EvanR-work> banking
2814 2011-03-07 20:45:07 <farzong> bankistics
2815 2011-03-07 20:45:10 lolcat has joined
2816 2011-03-07 20:45:17 <farzong> economics / accounting / finance
2817 2011-03-07 20:46:29 <EvanR-work> political science
2818 2011-03-07 20:46:43 <farzong> creative writing
2819 2011-03-07 20:46:46 <farzong> hehe
2820 2011-03-07 20:47:01 <EvanR-work> destructive reading
2821 2011-03-07 20:47:55 <farzong> bank financial statements are fiction of the comedic genre
2822 2011-03-07 20:48:05 <farzong> or perhaps surreal
2823 2011-03-07 20:48:36 <EvanR-work> are those only available to shareholders?
2824 2011-03-07 20:49:14 <farzong> available to the public, if theyre a public company
2825 2011-03-07 20:49:26 <EvanR-work> cool
2826 2011-03-07 20:49:48 <EvanR-work> where do you get the real data
2827 2011-03-07 20:52:25 <farzong> i think sec.gov/edgar.shtml has the quarterly and other filings of all the public co's
2828 2011-03-07 20:52:48 <jgarzik> yes
2829 2011-03-07 20:53:12 <BlueMatt> is anyone running a testnode client that I can -connect to, I cant seem to get any peers?
2830 2011-03-07 20:54:48 <MartianW> BlueMatt, which version are you running?
2831 2011-03-07 20:55:06 <BlueMatt> 0.3.20.2
2832 2011-03-07 20:55:42 <MartianW> Ah, I had the same problem, but that was because I was running .19 and everybody else moved over to the new testnet.
2833 2011-03-07 20:58:12 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: try 69.164.218.197 that's the testnet faucet machine
2834 2011-03-07 20:59:44 <phantomcircuit> ARGH
2835 2011-03-07 20:59:57 <phantomcircuit> treating hashes as uint256 is driving me insane
2836 2011-03-07 21:00:02 <ArtForz> y?
2837 2011-03-07 21:00:07 <phantomcircuit> there should not be endianness converns with hashes
2838 2011-03-07 21:00:09 <phantomcircuit> >.>
2839 2011-03-07 21:00:19 <ArtForz> there isnt
2840 2011-03-07 21:00:33 <Diablo-D3> there isnt
2841 2011-03-07 21:00:39 <ArtForz> take the output of sha256, interpret it as a little endian uint256, done
2842 2011-03-07 21:01:02 <gavinandresen> ... now if you want to PRINT the hash, then you've got some swapping to do...
2843 2011-03-07 21:01:04 <phantomcircuit> but it's not a little endian uint256
2844 2011-03-07 21:01:06 <phantomcircuit> it's a hash
2845 2011-03-07 21:01:28 * mizerydearia is giving 0.5 witcoins to each of the next three new user accounts at witcoin.com
2846 2011-03-07 21:01:38 <ArtForz> so how do you compare 2 hashes for <= ?
2847 2011-03-07 21:02:20 <gavinandresen> ooh ooh I know! Interpret as ebcidic and do alpahbetical order!
2848 2011-03-07 21:02:29 <mizerydearia> bccdeii
2849 2011-03-07 21:02:57 <mizerydearia> ah Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code
2850 2011-03-07 21:03:04 <gavinandresen> wait, no, strike that, bad idea for internationalization....
2851 2011-03-07 21:03:30 Sedo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2852 2011-03-07 21:03:35 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, the hashes on the network are in little endian
2853 2011-03-07 21:03:40 <phantomcircuit> which is like
2854 2011-03-07 21:03:41 <phantomcircuit> wat
2855 2011-03-07 21:03:50 <ArtForz> iirc we dont have hashes on the network
2856 2011-03-07 21:03:55 <ArtForz> we have uint256s
2857 2011-03-07 21:03:58 <mizerydearia> Is there anyone here that doesn't have any bitcoins yet?
2858 2011-03-07 21:04:14 <ArtForz> except for some of the checksum stuff
2859 2011-03-07 21:04:21 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: I dont have many :<
2860 2011-03-07 21:04:26 <luke-jr> LOL
2861 2011-03-07 21:04:27 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, you request tx/block's by their hash, but the response doesn't include said hash, so you have to calculate it
2862 2011-03-07 21:04:29 <mizerydearia> hah
2863 2011-03-07 21:04:37 <phantomcircuit> (which i guess youd have to do anyways)
2864 2011-03-07 21:04:38 * luke-jr sells all his. I have none!
2865 2011-03-07 21:04:40 <mizerydearia> preferably newbies
2866 2011-03-07 21:04:56 <phantomcircuit> but the hash request is a backwards hash
2867 2011-03-07 21:05:01 <phantomcircuit> which is confusing as hell
2868 2011-03-07 21:05:44 <ArtForz> huh?
2869 2011-03-07 21:05:59 <lfm> consider it as a byte stream
2870 2011-03-07 21:06:15 <ArtForz> class CInv
2871 2011-03-07 21:06:15 <ArtForz> {
2872 2011-03-07 21:06:15 <ArtForz> public:
2873 2011-03-07 21:06:15 <ArtForz> int type;
2874 2011-03-07 21:06:15 <ArtForz> uint256 hash;
2875 2011-03-07 21:06:28 <ArtForz> thats a LE uint256, not a byte stream
2876 2011-03-07 21:06:36 <ArtForz> and guess what, LE uint256s are... LE
2877 2011-03-07 21:06:59 <Diablo-D3> wait
2878 2011-03-07 21:07:01 <Diablo-D3> thats too simple
2879 2011-03-07 21:07:08 <Diablo-D3> LE uint256s should be BE
2880 2011-03-07 21:07:47 <ArtForz> how about LE byte ordering and BE dword ordering?
2881 2011-03-07 21:07:53 <ArtForz> :P
2882 2011-03-07 21:08:26 <Diablo-D3> so... ME?
2883 2011-03-07 21:08:38 <ArtForz> yeah, return of middle endian
2884 2011-03-07 21:08:59 <Diablo-D3> scary
2885 2011-03-07 21:09:01 <ArtForz> except now with more bignum
2886 2011-03-07 21:09:07 Sedo has joined
2887 2011-03-07 21:09:11 <ArtForz> and yes, some bignum library is actually doing that
2888 2011-03-07 21:09:19 <Diablo-D3> fffffFFFfffFFFfffFFfff
2889 2011-03-07 21:09:30 <ArtForz> word order is always BE, words are platform native ordering
2890 2011-03-07 21:10:30 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2891 2011-03-07 21:10:44 <ArtForz> can't remember what library that was, guess the brain bleach at least partially worked
2892 2011-03-07 21:12:37 hazek has joined
2893 2011-03-07 21:12:39 Lachesis has joined
2894 2011-03-07 21:13:28 BlueMatt has joined
2895 2011-03-07 21:13:30 altamic has joined
2896 2011-03-07 21:13:30 altamic has quit (Changing host)
2897 2011-03-07 21:13:30 altamic has joined
2898 2011-03-07 21:13:48 <hazek> question: Is it possible that when I check on block explorer if a transaction happened(say I know the recievers address and the amount) and I find it there, is it still possible that it will get reversed
2899 2011-03-07 21:13:57 <BlueMatt> what is the timeout for node pings before it is considered disconnected?
2900 2011-03-07 21:14:04 <ArtForz> 1 hour iirc
2901 2011-03-07 21:14:05 <hazek> meaning does the transaction show up as soon as it's still uncofirmed
2902 2011-03-07 21:14:16 <ArtForz> no
2903 2011-03-07 21:14:27 <ArtForz> blockexplorer only shows stuff in blocks
2904 2011-03-07 21:14:30 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste)
2905 2011-03-07 21:14:33 <hazek> right
2906 2011-03-07 21:14:36 <BlueMatt> where is that defined?
2907 2011-03-07 21:14:42 <ArtForz> otherwise it'd be transactioncacheexplorer ;)
2908 2011-03-07 21:14:42 <hazek> so if i find it there it's confirmed and can't be reversed?
2909 2011-03-07 21:14:57 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: net.cpp iirc
2910 2011-03-07 21:15:04 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: any idea where?
2911 2011-03-07 21:15:15 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: nevermind
2912 2011-03-07 21:15:24 <ArtForz> whoops, 90 minutes
2913 2011-03-07 21:15:51 <ArtForz> towards the end of ThreadSocketHandler2 in net.cpp
2914 2011-03-07 21:15:58 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yea saw it, thanks
2915 2011-03-07 21:17:23 larsig has joined
2916 2011-03-07 21:19:41 <luke-jr> hazek: no
2917 2011-03-07 21:19:47 <luke-jr> hazek: 1 confirmation can still be reversed
2918 2011-03-07 21:20:00 BlueMatt_ has joined
2919 2011-03-07 21:20:02 <hazek> hmmm
2920 2011-03-07 21:20:14 <ArtForz> any # of confirmations CAN be reversed
2921 2011-03-07 21:20:15 <hazek> well that sucks a little bit
2922 2011-03-07 21:20:23 <hazek> oh
2923 2011-03-07 21:20:28 <ArtForz> it just gets less and less likely
2924 2011-03-07 21:20:42 <hazek> i hate it when you say less and less LIKELY
2925 2011-03-07 21:20:55 <hazek> say more and more difficult
2926 2011-03-07 21:21:10 <luke-jr> â¦
2927 2011-03-07 21:21:17 <hazek> words matter.
2928 2011-03-07 21:21:21 <ArtForz> yes
2929 2011-03-07 21:21:27 <luke-jr> they mean the same thing here.
2930 2011-03-07 21:21:38 <ArtForz> actually theres a subtle difference
2931 2011-03-07 21:21:40 <luke-jr> malice of other people is a factor in the liklihood
2932 2011-03-07 21:21:52 <ArtForz> yep
2933 2011-03-07 21:22:00 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2934 2011-03-07 21:22:01 <hazek> sure but we're not robots
2935 2011-03-07 21:22:08 <luke-jr> also, even if you assume no malice, there's still a possibility the universe implodes
2936 2011-03-07 21:22:09 <hazek> words have inclinations
2937 2011-03-07 21:22:10 <ArtForz> prove it!
2938 2011-03-07 21:22:19 <ArtForz> ;)
2939 2011-03-07 21:22:42 <hazek> anyway the reason why I asked is
2940 2011-03-07 21:22:45 <hazek> say I'm a business
2941 2011-03-07 21:22:57 <hazek> and I sell something to someone
2942 2011-03-07 21:23:04 <hazek> and they pay me
2943 2011-03-07 21:23:09 <hazek> and I'm waiting for a confirmation
2944 2011-03-07 21:23:21 <hazek> from which point on should I feel safe
2945 2011-03-07 21:23:25 <hazek> I wont get cheated
2946 2011-03-07 21:23:30 <hazek> is there no such point
2947 2011-03-07 21:23:36 <hazek> is there a virtual point?
2948 2011-03-07 21:23:52 <ArtForz> there is no such point really
2949 2011-03-07 21:24:01 <mmarker> This sounds perfect for a t-test if I recall my stats correctly
2950 2011-03-07 21:24:03 <ArtForz> but most people seem to agree 5-6 is "good enough"
2951 2011-03-07 21:24:22 <hazek> aha
2952 2011-03-07 21:24:35 <hazek> that's a bit of turnoff
2953 2011-03-07 21:24:41 Bth8 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2954 2011-03-07 21:24:53 <ArtForz> probably because thats when the bitcoin client switches from "x/unconfirmed" to "x confirmations"
2955 2011-03-07 21:25:16 <mmarker> This sounds like a good subject for a MS thesis
2956 2011-03-07 21:25:31 <hazek> and at what point am I able to find a tx through block explorer?
2957 2011-03-07 21:25:33 <xelister> pay with BTC in borthel
2958 2011-03-07 21:25:38 <hazek> as soon as it's 1/unconfirmed?
2959 2011-03-07 21:25:39 <xelister> get naked
2960 2011-03-07 21:25:42 <ArtForz> yep
2961 2011-03-07 21:25:45 <BlueMatt_> satoshi calculated the probability that someone could overtake the block chain in the paper
2962 2011-03-07 21:25:50 <ArtForz> yep
2963 2011-03-07 21:25:51 <xelister> *switches from 2/unconfirmed to [removed]*
2964 2011-03-07 21:25:55 <xelister> ooops.
2965 2011-03-07 21:26:17 <mmarker> bluematt: that is correct.
2966 2011-03-07 21:26:26 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt
2967 2011-03-07 21:26:38 <ArtForz> bitcoin isnt really designed for instant payment
2968 2011-03-07 21:26:39 <mmarker> I forgot about that last section
2969 2011-03-07 21:26:41 <hazek> BlueMatt do share
2970 2011-03-07 21:26:43 <xelister> with someone owning close to 50% hashpower, it gets easier to make 4 or 5 confirmations doublespendings
2971 2011-03-07 21:27:02 <Diablo-D3> er
2972 2011-03-07 21:27:06 <BlueMatt> hazek: http://ignum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/bitcoin/Design%20Paper/bitcoin.pdf/bitcoin.pdf
2973 2011-03-07 21:27:08 <Diablo-D3> whats the default json port?
2974 2011-03-07 21:27:14 <ArtForz> 8332
2975 2011-03-07 21:27:15 <mmarker> 8332?
2976 2011-03-07 21:27:20 <BlueMatt> hazek: section 11
2977 2011-03-07 21:27:27 * Diablo-D3 fixes bug.
2978 2011-03-07 21:27:29 <hazek> ty
2979 2011-03-07 21:27:38 <xelister> with 30% hashpower you can sucessfully get away with 0.5% of doublespended transactions to get even 3 or 4 unconfirmed before removed?
2980 2011-03-07 21:27:46 <xelister> Diablo-D3: what bug
2981 2011-03-07 21:27:52 <Spenvo> guys, check out wingcash
2982 2011-03-07 21:27:55 <Diablo-D3> in my pool code
2983 2011-03-07 21:27:56 <Spenvo> wingcash.com
2984 2011-03-07 21:28:33 <hazek> so about 6-7 blocks deep
2985 2011-03-07 21:28:40 <hazek> should be reasonably safe
2986 2011-03-07 21:28:53 <xelister> Spenvo: what is that, ripple?
2987 2011-03-07 21:28:58 <hazek> which is an hour an hour and a half
2988 2011-03-07 21:29:43 <Spenvo> haha, it's an earthquake. the hoards are coming
2989 2011-03-07 21:30:07 <ArtForz> yay, yet another centralized private currency fixed to USD
2990 2011-03-07 21:30:12 BCBot has joined
2991 2011-03-07 21:30:12 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: I changed the timeout, but the connection count in the gui isnt dropping after 10 mins (I set timeout to 10) any idea?
2992 2011-03-07 21:30:29 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: errr... guess the clients you'Re connected to arent dead?
2993 2011-03-07 21:30:42 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: cant be, I rebooted router and changed public ip
2994 2011-03-07 21:30:53 <ArtForz> then they should time out
2995 2011-03-07 21:30:57 <BlueMatt> odd...
2996 2011-03-07 21:31:12 <xelister> Spenvo: it appears to be only for americans? what with rest of the world? there be dragons?
2997 2011-03-07 21:31:28 <BlueMatt> Im trying to write something small to keep connections up when you change ips, though if I cant get a disconnect in the first place, I cant exactly test it.
2998 2011-03-07 21:32:14 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2999 2011-03-07 21:32:36 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: I actually have code that does something like that... somewhere... I think...
3000 2011-03-07 21:32:41 <Spenvo> well, i see it as a positive. there's a dark uncanny valley that exists between bitcoin and any currency. This helps pave the way for other currencies
3001 2011-03-07 21:32:42 <gasteve> heh...wingcash...the video is quite ironic...giving the impression of a direct person to person cash transfer with no third party
3002 2011-03-07 21:32:43 <BlueMatt> public?
3003 2011-03-07 21:32:57 <ArtForz> iirc no, never could get it to really work
3004 2011-03-07 21:33:04 <xelister> "you both see the images of money" ?????
3005 2011-03-07 21:33:29 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
3006 2011-03-07 21:33:31 <gribble> 112585
3007 2011-03-07 21:33:32 <gasteve> then it goes on to say "wingcash give you both an online wallet"
3008 2011-03-07 21:33:42 <Spenvo> yeah, guess ya'll have a point. but the masses will love this thing
3009 2011-03-07 21:33:46 <ArtForz> finally resorted to a shell script checking router external IP via SNMP and restarting bitcoin
3010 2011-03-07 21:34:05 <xelister> "you both see the image of boobies" "then wingcash gives you virtuall blowjob"
3011 2011-03-07 21:34:11 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: shouldnt be too hard should it? I mean it should just check that it has more nodes than MAX_OUTBOUND_CONENCTIONS whenever a disconnect occurs?
3012 2011-03-07 21:34:14 <gasteve> I guess it's private, person to person if you pretend wingcash doesn't exist ;)
3013 2011-03-07 21:34:57 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: yeah
3014 2011-03-07 21:35:11 <Spenvo> wingcash will polish your knob, will take bitchange or USD
3015 2011-03-07 21:35:21 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3016 2011-03-07 21:35:38 <ArtForz> basically I added code to ping a random node once a minute, because once the external IP changes and the line is back up that should get you a RST in return
3017 2011-03-07 21:35:51 <xelister> Spenvo: private money, can be traced, blocked, etc
3018 2011-03-07 21:35:59 <gasteve> yeah...this looks really private and person to person to me: https://wingcash.com/merchant-terms
3019 2011-03-07 21:36:07 <ArtForz> then watch for -104 connection reset errors, if tyou get one, recheck your external IP, if it changed -> kill all hum... connections
3020 2011-03-07 21:36:18 <Diablo-D3> night all
3021 2011-03-07 21:36:22 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: sounds overly complicated, well Im off to reboot my router for the hundredth time tonight to test
3022 2011-03-07 21:36:40 <ArtForz> like I said, never really worked too well
3023 2011-03-07 21:36:50 MartianW has joined
3024 2011-03-07 21:37:00 <ArtForz> shell script watching external IP is easier and works
3025 2011-03-07 21:37:09 <xelister> It is a good idea that WingCash shows the 'image of money'
3026 2011-03-07 21:37:12 <xelister> it increases confidence in the transaction a long
3027 2011-03-07 21:37:14 <xelister> among computer uneducated idiots.
3028 2011-03-07 21:37:40 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3029 2011-03-07 21:38:06 <xelister> see, image of a bill! woo now you can trust me. Send 1000 usd to Nigeria,
3030 2011-03-07 21:38:10 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3031 2011-03-07 21:40:09 BlueMatt has joined
3032 2011-03-07 21:41:45 <ArtForz> nice idea to only charge fees on outexchange, makes running a sc... pyr... partial reserve scheme much easier *ducks*
3033 2011-03-07 21:42:07 <xelister> In connection with your use of the WingCash Service or the WingCash Site, you will not do any of the following âProhibited Activitiesâ:
3034 2011-03-07 21:42:18 <ArtForz> a) breathe
3035 2011-03-07 21:42:24 MartianW has joined
3036 2011-03-07 21:42:28 <xelister> # Access or use the WingCash Service, or allow the access or use of the WingCash Service, from outside of the United States;
3037 2011-03-07 21:42:41 <xelister> Act or assist others in acting as a payment intermediary, aggregator or service bureau or otherwise resell the WingCash Service on behalf of any third party, including without limitation the handling, processing, and transmission of funds for any third party.
3038 2011-03-07 21:42:54 <xelister> Spenvo: WingCash americans can suck my european free balls
3039 2011-03-07 21:43:09 <BlueMatt> or my proxy ;)
3040 2011-03-07 21:43:24 <Spenvo> one last thought on wingcoin - If it is done by a ycomb company (compare the dropbox vid with the wingcash vid) (dropbox, first class of Ycomb) or any ycomb, the hacker news community will love it and it'll probably make waves
3041 2011-03-07 21:43:41 <xelister> Spenvo: it sounds neato for many not too educated people
3042 2011-03-07 21:43:47 <Spenvo> lol
3043 2011-03-07 21:43:48 <xelister> Spenvo: it has nothing to do with freedom like bitcoin has
3044 2011-03-07 21:44:02 <Spenvo> completely agree with you
3045 2011-03-07 21:44:06 <xelister> its corporation giving you points in exachnge for money
3046 2011-03-07 21:45:50 <phantomcircuit> crap
3047 2011-03-07 21:45:57 <phantomcircuit> my 'server' just died
3048 2011-03-07 21:47:23 kiba has joined
3049 2011-03-07 21:49:59 ApertureScience has joined
3050 2011-03-07 21:50:20 ApertureScience has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3051 2011-03-07 21:51:40 <molecular> BlueMatt, maybe you could use this: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4242.0
3052 2011-03-07 21:52:27 <BlueMatt> molecular: Im fine (I use somethin similar) but it would be good to always keep x connections open to make sure the client works in all odd situations like that
3053 2011-03-07 21:53:17 <molecular> yes, and actually verify connections from time to time or something, they seem to just die silently when ip is changed (at least some of them)
3054 2011-03-07 21:53:25 <BlueMatt> some?
3055 2011-03-07 21:53:54 <molecular> I'm not sure, didn't investigate this a lot. Just had completely dead nodes still showing me "x connections"
3056 2011-03-07 21:54:23 <molecular> maybe all, was just making a cautious statement
3057 2011-03-07 21:54:24 <BlueMatt> they should *all* die silently like that
3058 2011-03-07 21:55:49 <farzong> its raining bitcoins
3059 2011-03-07 21:55:58 <BlueMatt> I wish
3060 2011-03-07 21:56:45 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3061 2011-03-07 21:56:52 <molecular> probably do, but some are detected to be dropped correctly, some not?
3062 2011-03-07 21:57:09 <BlueMatt> molecular: they should all be detected as dropped and removed
3063 2011-03-07 21:57:11 mmarker has quit (Quit: Grrr)
3064 2011-03-07 21:57:16 <BlueMatt> though I havent done that much research either
3065 2011-03-07 21:57:19 <BlueMatt> just some looking really
3066 2011-03-07 21:58:57 <phantomcircuit> bah stupid cheap memory has failed
3067 2011-03-07 21:59:39 <phantomcircuit> damn your rosewill
3068 2011-03-07 22:00:02 <BlueMatt> dont bash newegg
3069 2011-03-07 22:00:20 <phantomcircuit> pretty sure rosewill isn't newegg
3070 2011-03-07 22:00:27 <BlueMatt> its their house brand iirc
3071 2011-03-07 22:00:41 <phantomcircuit> yrw
3072 2011-03-07 22:00:52 <molecular> BlueMatt, did this change from 0.3.19? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues#issue/48 is still open
3073 2011-03-07 22:01:07 <BlueMatt> molecular: AFAIK, no
3074 2011-03-07 22:01:14 <phantomcircuit> oh damn
3075 2011-03-07 22:01:17 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you're right it is
3076 2011-03-07 22:01:24 <phantomcircuit> well either way shit failed
3077 2011-03-07 22:01:35 <molecular> BlueMatt, well, ok, the connection count will slowly (really slowly) drop to 0
3078 2011-03-07 22:01:41 <BlueMatt> yea
3079 2011-03-07 22:01:46 <BlueMatt> the timeout is 90 minutes by default
3080 2011-03-07 22:01:55 <BlueMatt> Im messing around with setting it lower, but it doesnt seem to be working
3081 2011-03-07 22:02:07 <molecular> wonder why it's not opening new ones? maybe the irc connection is fail, too
3082 2011-03-07 22:02:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, set the timeout to like 30 seconds
3083 2011-03-07 22:02:24 <phantomcircuit> it's a trivial amount of traffic
3084 2011-03-07 22:02:30 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: have it set to a minute, but its not timing out
3085 2011-03-07 22:02:42 <phantomcircuit> molecular, it thinks the defunct connections are still alive
3086 2011-03-07 22:02:52 <phantomcircuit> molecular, so doesn't even try to open a new connection
3087 2011-03-07 22:02:59 <BlueMatt> molecular: yea, all conections stop and the client isnt set to make outbound conenctions except for the 8 at the very beginning
3088 2011-03-07 22:03:09 <molecular> well, it doesnt even try after they have all timed out ("0 connections")
3089 2011-03-07 22:03:17 <molecular> so there has to be more to it
3090 2011-03-07 22:03:23 <molecular> than just the timeout-problem
3091 2011-03-07 22:03:37 <BlueMatt> molecular: nope thats about it
3092 2011-03-07 22:03:38 <molecular> BlueMatt, oh, really?
3093 2011-03-07 22:03:42 <BlueMatt> it just doesnt do anything
3094 2011-03-07 22:03:45 <molecular> only 8 after start and thats it?
3095 2011-03-07 22:03:52 <molecular> that's kind of stupid
3096 2011-03-07 22:04:05 <BlueMatt> yea
3097 2011-03-07 22:04:09 <BlueMatt> trying to work on that now
3098 2011-03-07 22:04:12 <molecular> cool
3099 2011-03-07 22:04:18 <BlueMatt> but...I dont seem to understand the code path here
3100 2011-03-07 22:04:52 <xelister> 0/unconfirmed means it was seen in just 1 block so far?
3101 2011-03-07 22:04:59 <BlueMatt> 0 means no blocks
3102 2011-03-07 22:05:02 <BlueMatt> 1 means 1 block
3103 2011-03-07 22:05:11 <BlueMatt> "IRC ERROR :Closing Link: p3E9BE83D.dip.t-dialin.net (Sorry, server is full - try later)"
3104 2011-03-07 22:05:12 <xelister> so 0 means that I seen a flying tx?
3105 2011-03-07 22:05:17 <BlueMatt> someone want to look into that?
3106 2011-03-07 22:05:34 <jercos> ^-- I blame failure.
3107 2011-03-07 22:05:37 <BlueMatt> attack or just full?
3108 2011-03-07 22:05:48 <jercos> Probably just full.
3109 2011-03-07 22:05:52 <doublec> xelister: yes
3110 2011-03-07 22:05:55 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3111 2011-03-07 22:05:57 <xelister> BlueMatt: I had indeed some problems recently establishing new connections as fast as before
3112 2011-03-07 22:05:59 <xelister> afair
3113 2011-03-07 22:06:17 <xelister> also sucks that default client doesnt keep connections over restart
3114 2011-03-07 22:06:22 <xelister> freenet does :)
3115 2011-03-07 22:06:35 <ArtForz> errr...it kinda does
3116 2011-03-07 22:06:42 <xelister> also do other nodes work also as seeding nodes? freened does too =)
3117 2011-03-07 22:06:59 <ArtForz> not that last seen time is updated pretty often for connected nodes
3118 2011-03-07 22:07:02 <ArtForz> *note
3119 2011-03-07 22:07:19 <ArtForz> and we try connections pretty much in reverse seen order
3120 2011-03-07 22:07:21 <BlueMatt> yea if irc is down, bootstrapping is gonna be an epic fail
3121 2011-03-07 22:07:37 <xelister> so nodes do not work as seednodes?
3122 2011-03-07 22:07:45 <ArtForz> ?
3123 2011-03-07 22:07:52 <xelister> you know like in freenet
3124 2011-03-07 22:07:56 <ArtForz> sure do
3125 2011-03-07 22:08:01 <xelister> you can get more opennet peers from darknet peers
3126 2011-03-07 22:08:14 <ArtForz> send any node a getaddr(), look at the response
3127 2011-03-07 22:08:24 jwalck- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3128 2011-03-07 22:08:30 <xelister> it lists peers of that node?
3129 2011-03-07 22:08:42 <xelister> getaddr is a network message? or RPC?
3130 2011-03-07 22:08:51 <xelister> or what, because you written it like a function ;)
3131 2011-03-07 22:08:52 <ArtForz> network msg
3132 2011-03-07 22:09:05 <xelister> woot
3133 2011-03-07 22:09:24 <xelister> then we can bootstrap even without irc just with few hardcoded -connectnode
3134 2011-03-07 22:09:34 <ArtForz> yes
3135 2011-03-07 22:09:39 <ArtForz> and guess what, we have 300 of those ;)
3136 2011-03-07 22:09:39 <xelister> -addnode
3137 2011-03-07 22:09:53 <xelister> of whats?
3138 2011-03-07 22:09:55 <xelister> just 10 ips on wiki
3139 2011-03-07 22:10:00 <ArtForz> hardcoded node IPs
3140 2011-03-07 22:10:08 <xelister> in the client already? neat
3141 2011-03-07 22:10:10 <ArtForz> pnSeed in net.cpp
3142 2011-03-07 22:10:33 * xelister crosses fingers 'I really hope gov will never get hold of that file'
3143 2011-03-07 22:10:35 <xelister> =)
3144 2011-03-07 22:10:45 <phantomcircuit> wat
3145 2011-03-07 22:10:45 <ArtForz> 320 node IPs
3146 2011-03-07 22:10:53 <edcba_> wtf bitcoinj by google ?
3147 2011-03-07 22:11:02 <xelister> phantomcircuit: USA is evil like that
3148 2011-03-07 22:11:05 * edcba_ wakes up
3149 2011-03-07 22:11:09 <farzong> bitcoinj in th ehouse
3150 2011-03-07 22:11:27 <xelister> in the good old days
3151 2011-03-07 22:11:31 <xelister> ... of cpu mining
3152 2011-03-07 22:11:33 <edcba_> almost had a seizure reading that
3153 2011-03-07 22:11:35 <xelister> ... of gpu mining
3154 2011-03-07 22:11:40 <phantomcircuit> xelister, you realize that as it stands right now the us government could almost certainly replace the bitcoin.exe binaries with a trojan
3155 2011-03-07 22:11:42 <xelister> ... of when I was able to generate anyblock at all
3156 2011-03-07 22:11:56 <xelister> heh wonder where this is going :|
3157 2011-03-07 22:12:13 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3158 2011-03-07 22:12:18 <xelister> so basically my bough radeon 5970 is a money sank
3159 2011-03-07 22:12:21 <phantomcircuit> if they can modify the peer bootstrap list they can just put a backdoor in
3160 2011-03-07 22:12:22 <phantomcircuit> so
3161 2011-03-07 22:12:22 <xelister> sankee
3162 2011-03-07 22:12:23 <phantomcircuit> whatever
3163 2011-03-07 22:12:24 <xelister> sanked?
3164 2011-03-07 22:13:17 <phantomcircuit> sunk
3165 2011-03-07 22:13:20 <phantomcircuit> sink
3166 2011-03-07 22:13:23 <phantomcircuit> money sink
3167 2011-03-07 22:13:23 <xelister> close enough
3168 2011-03-07 22:13:25 <phantomcircuit> money is sunk
3169 2011-03-07 22:13:40 BlueMatt has joined
3170 2011-03-07 22:13:42 <phantomcircuit> but no not really unless you have very expensive power
3171 2011-03-07 22:13:57 * xelister buys 4 x 5970 like a boss
3172 2011-03-07 22:14:00 * xelister earns 250 BTC totall.
3173 2011-03-07 22:14:01 * xelister Close Enough.
3174 2011-03-07 22:14:04 <phantomcircuit> not to mention a 5970 will have resale value for a while
3175 2011-03-07 22:14:17 * xelister bankrupts
3176 2011-03-07 22:14:22 <xelister> foreever alone
3177 2011-03-07 22:14:48 <sgornick> http://stats.bitcoin.it/rrd/nodes_total-day.png
3178 2011-03-07 22:15:46 <xelister> sgornick: what is that, 1 day?
3179 2011-03-07 22:15:48 jwalck- has joined
3180 2011-03-07 22:15:51 <BlueMatt> woo, I think it worked :)
3181 2011-03-07 22:16:01 <BlueMatt> simple two-liner too
3182 2011-03-07 22:16:10 <xelister> BlueMatt: try sitting first on the hand. then it works better
3183 2011-03-07 22:16:18 <sgornick> xelister: That's node's heard from, .. MT's utility,right?
3184 2011-03-07 22:16:23 <BlueMatt> xelister: ?
3185 2011-03-07 22:16:33 <BlueMatt> ok, to patch this up into a pull req, then go to bed...
3186 2011-03-07 22:16:58 again is now known as tower
3187 2011-03-07 22:17:18 <xelister> whats MT
3188 2011-03-07 22:18:24 <sgornick> MT, ... MagicalTux's site, right? I was hoping to get a snapshot of the list from https://https//smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml
3189 2011-03-07 22:18:34 <molecular> wow, did 5970 prices drop? seeing one for â¬279 on ebay
3190 2011-03-07 22:19:11 <ArtForz> 6990 release tomorrow ;)
3191 2011-03-07 22:19:14 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3192 2011-03-07 22:19:56 <molecular> oh, sorry, it's an auction
3193 2011-03-07 22:19:58 altamic_ has joined
3194 2011-03-07 22:20:04 <sgornick> More info about that chart: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Map
3195 2011-03-07 22:20:05 <molecular> so they might still be more expensive
3196 2011-03-07 22:20:20 <sgornick> > It is currently still unknown how reliable this information is. It represent the total number of unique IPs seen within the last 3 hours on the network.
3197 2011-03-07 22:20:35 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/716d228df076407ac8268e2357431e9c1f25b98a
3198 2011-03-07 22:20:44 <BlueMatt> someone care to test more thoroughly?
3199 2011-03-07 22:20:49 <MagicalTux> sgornick: ?
3200 2011-03-07 22:21:30 <sgornick> MagicalTux: Is that feed yours https//smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml for http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml ?
3201 2011-03-07 22:21:34 nanotube has joined
3202 2011-03-07 22:21:35 <MagicalTux> https://dump.bitcoin.it/misc/ <- look at bitcoin_clients_full.json.bz2
3203 2011-03-07 22:21:46 <MagicalTux> and yep, it's mine
3204 2011-03-07 22:22:07 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3205 2011-03-07 22:22:28 <sgornick> awesome, thanks. Is serving that KML down just temporarily?
3206 2011-03-07 22:22:39 altamic_ is now known as altamic
3207 2011-03-07 22:22:43 <MagicalTux> sgornick: it works fine if you type https:// instead of https//
3208 2011-03-07 22:23:15 <phantomcircuit> :P
3209 2011-03-07 22:23:22 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
3210 2011-03-07 22:23:23 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 hour, 20 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> wait, no, strike that, bad idea for internationalization....
3211 2011-03-07 22:23:24 <BlueMatt> ;;seen tcatm
3212 2011-03-07 22:23:26 <xelister> MagicalTux: =)
3213 2011-03-07 22:23:26 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 hours, 43 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <tcatm> It won't. People love speculation about these topics.
3214 2011-03-07 22:23:33 <xelister> ;;seen gribble
3215 2011-03-07 22:23:34 <gribble> I have not seen gribble.
3216 2011-03-07 22:23:48 <xelister> what was Satoshi's irc nick?
3217 2011-03-07 22:24:04 <xelister> assuming it's not ArtForz ;)
3218 2011-03-07 22:24:16 <BlueMatt> did he hang out on irc? He hasnt been seen in a long time anyway...
3219 2011-03-07 22:24:20 <xelister> ;;seen CIA-1
3220 2011-03-07 22:24:20 <gribble> I have not seen CIA-1.
3221 2011-03-07 22:24:23 <xelister> ;;seen CIA-54
3222 2011-03-07 22:24:23 <gribble> I have not seen CIA-54.
3223 2011-03-07 22:24:30 <edcba_> never seen him on irc
3224 2011-03-07 22:26:29 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell gavinandresen Potential fix for silent disconnects (is it bad code? seems to work fine though): https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/716d228df076407ac8268e2357431e9c1f25b98a
3225 2011-03-07 22:26:29 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
3226 2011-03-07 22:26:34 <BlueMatt> gnight all
3227 2011-03-07 22:27:16 <molecular> gn8
3228 2011-03-07 22:27:24 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3229 2011-03-07 22:27:45 <phantomcircuit> bah crap sqlite is slow as hell
3230 2011-03-07 22:27:56 <xelister> phantomcircuit: heheh
3231 2011-03-07 22:28:04 <xelister> it sure is.
3232 2011-03-07 22:28:45 <phantomcircuit> i suspect this would be substantially faster if i wasn't commit'ing so much
3233 2011-03-07 22:30:22 <xelister> phantomcircuit: are you a man?
3234 2011-03-07 22:30:39 <xelister> phantomcircuit: lets play russian rullete for 10 BTC
3235 2011-03-07 22:30:47 satamusic_ has joined
3236 2011-03-07 22:31:23 wood has joined
3237 2011-03-07 22:31:31 <phantomcircuit> xelister, eh?
3238 2011-03-07 22:32:11 <xelister> we take turns and type ;;roulette . the person that stays standing last, gets 10 BTC from the person that looses
3239 2011-03-07 22:32:18 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3240 2011-03-07 22:33:54 <xelister> phantomcircuit: so? ;)
3241 2011-03-07 22:34:36 <phantomcircuit> ;;roulette .
3242 2011-03-07 22:34:37 <gribble> (roulette [spin]) -- Fires the revolver. If the bullet was in the chamber, you're dead. Tell me to spin the chambers and I will.
3243 2011-03-07 22:34:46 <phantomcircuit> ;;roulette
3244 2011-03-07 22:34:46 <gribble> *click*
3245 2011-03-07 22:34:48 <phantomcircuit> lololol
3246 2011-03-07 22:34:49 <xelister> ;;roulette
3247 2011-03-07 22:34:50 <gribble> *click*
3248 2011-03-07 22:34:56 <xelister> phantomcircuit: now you. looser pays up 10 btc ok?
3249 2011-03-07 22:34:59 <phantomcircuit> well i dont have 10 BTC
3250 2011-03-07 22:35:00 <phantomcircuit> so
3251 2011-03-07 22:35:01 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3252 2011-03-07 22:35:04 <xelister> how about 1 ?
3253 2011-03-07 22:35:13 <phantomcircuit> i have 0.04
3254 2011-03-07 22:35:13 <phantomcircuit> xD
3255 2011-03-07 22:35:24 <xelister> O_o
3256 2011-03-07 22:35:35 <phantomcircuit> spent all my btc on a loverly 5870
3257 2011-03-07 22:35:39 <xelister> ah
3258 2011-03-07 22:35:50 <xelister> phantomcircuit: did you bought it especially for minig?
3259 2011-03-07 22:35:53 <xelister> mining
3260 2011-03-07 22:37:06 <phantomcircuit> it's gonna be a dual purpose card
3261 2011-03-07 22:37:08 <sgornick> So this really doesn't concern anyone, ... even out of curiosity? https://stats.bitcoin.it/rrd/nodes_total-week.png
3262 2011-03-07 22:37:18 <OneFixt> ;;roulette spi
3263 2011-03-07 22:37:19 <gribble> *SPIN* Are you feeling lucky?
3264 2011-03-07 22:37:20 <OneFixt> ;;roulette spin
3265 2011-03-07 22:37:21 <gribble> *SPIN* Are you feeling lucky?
3266 2011-03-07 22:37:24 <OneFixt> ;;roulette
3267 2011-03-07 22:37:25 <gribble> *click*
3268 2011-03-07 22:37:27 <xelister> sgornick: I cant read that crappy graph ;)
3269 2011-03-07 22:37:31 <phantomcircuit> i was going to buy one for blasting fools anyways so i figured id get one for mining
3270 2011-03-07 22:37:32 <OneFixt> ;;roulette
3271 2011-03-07 22:37:32 <OneFixt> ;;roulette
3272 2011-03-07 22:37:33 <gribble> *click*
3273 2011-03-07 22:37:33 <xelister> OneFixt: you seem to be lucky.
3274 2011-03-07 22:37:34 <gribble> *click*
3275 2011-03-07 22:37:36 <phantomcircuit> 2 birds one card
3276 2011-03-07 22:37:38 <xelister> OneFixt: want to play for 5
3277 2011-03-07 22:37:47 <ArtForz> 0 nodes? wtf?
3278 2011-03-07 22:37:53 dabron has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3279 2011-03-07 22:37:54 <OneFixt> nah, just for fun
3280 2011-03-07 22:37:59 <xelister> cowards =)
3281 2011-03-07 22:38:29 <OneFixt> would you play for 10k? =)
3282 2011-03-07 22:38:33 <ArtForz> is that actual nodes or simply counting unique addr()s?
3283 2011-03-07 22:38:40 <sgornick> MagicalTux: ^^
3284 2011-03-07 22:39:05 <xelister> ArtForz: perhaps the counting node lost connectivity
3285 2011-03-07 22:39:09 <ArtForz> if the latter... yay, you noticed some people like to spam addr()s
3286 2011-03-07 22:39:14 <sgornick> ArtForz: There's 24K nodes in the data: http://dump.bitcoin.it/misc
3287 2011-03-07 22:39:26 <sgornick> and there were 7K earlier today, .... last week, etc.
3288 2011-03-07 22:39:28 <luke-jr> seeking input for formatting in #bitcoin-watch
3289 2011-03-07 22:39:30 <luke-jr> âº
3290 2011-03-07 22:39:41 <xelister> OneFixt: yes sure, let me just fetch my trustworthy bitcoin friend thatIjustmetatmetrostation to play against you for this 10k btc =)
3291 2011-03-07 22:39:50 <OneFixt> hehe
3292 2011-03-07 22:40:48 <OneFixt> xelister: well, i just went 3 times in a row, looks like it's time for your 3!
3293 2011-03-07 22:40:54 <xelister> >_>
3294 2011-03-07 22:40:57 <ArtForz> sgornick: again, is that real nodes or just counting unique addrs...
3295 2011-03-07 22:41:07 <ArtForz> if the latter, it's completely trivial to spoof
3296 2011-03-07 22:41:17 forrestv has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3297 2011-03-07 22:41:17 <OneFixt> do it
3298 2011-03-07 22:41:19 <OneFixt> for science
3299 2011-03-07 22:41:38 <ArtForz> for great justice
3300 2011-03-07 22:41:45 <OneFixt> take off every bit
3301 2011-03-07 22:41:47 <sgornick> ArtForz: It's MagicalTux's, .. in https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Map he wrote "It is currently still unknown how reliable this information is."
3302 2011-03-07 22:44:03 <ArtForz> okay, so simply counting addr()s
3303 2011-03-07 22:44:13 * OneFixt is away
3304 2011-03-07 22:45:02 JackRabiit has joined
3305 2011-03-07 22:45:30 <JackRabiit> Anyone got the MM's address handy?
3306 2011-03-07 22:48:23 <edcba_> mm ?
3307 2011-03-07 22:48:31 <phantomcircuit> bah
3308 2011-03-07 22:48:46 <phantomcircuit> i wonder how hard it is to start a postgre instance for a single application
3309 2011-03-07 22:48:54 <JackRabiit> nmv i found him
3310 2011-03-07 22:48:57 <JackRabiit> nvm*
3311 2011-03-07 22:49:02 <JackRabiit> MM=mystery miner
3312 2011-03-07 22:49:11 <JackRabiit> the guy with 350Ghash/s
3313 2011-03-07 22:49:14 JackRabiit has quit (Client Quit)
3314 2011-03-07 22:49:18 <luke-jr> I like tradebitcoin.com more than bitcoinmap.com :p
3315 2011-03-07 22:49:26 <luke-jr> mainly because the former doesn't require flash junk >.>
3316 2011-03-07 22:49:31 <phantomcircuit> god stupid sqlite
3317 2011-03-07 22:49:44 <phantomcircuit> im not even verifying transactions and it's slow as hell
3318 2011-03-07 22:49:48 <cosurgi> http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/1817-mypaint-port/page__st__40__gopid__38568#entry38568
3319 2011-03-07 22:49:54 <cosurgi> ;->
3320 2011-03-07 22:51:06 <luke-jr> so what do you guys think of #bitcoin-watch formatting? any suggestions?
3321 2011-03-07 22:51:51 <MagicalTux> gah
3322 2011-03-07 22:52:28 <MagicalTux> stupid node floods me with down nodes
3323 2011-03-07 22:53:30 <xelister> luke-jr: it looks like if unicorn is puking rainbows
3324 2011-03-07 22:53:38 <xelister> esp on white background =)
3325 2011-03-07 22:53:38 <luke-jr> LOL
3326 2011-03-07 22:53:54 <luke-jr> xelister: well, that's kinda your fault for not using the standard black bg? :p
3327 2011-03-07 22:54:15 <xelister> its by default white on many clients. prehaps even most
3328 2011-03-07 22:54:23 <xelister> depending on recipiends group
3329 2011-03-07 22:54:26 <luke-jr> xelister: how would you improve it?
3330 2011-03-07 22:54:38 <xelister> windows clients, and most linux GUI clients
3331 2011-03-07 22:54:54 <xelister> even many xterms are nowdays white (eg on ubuntu which is majority)\
3332 2011-03-07 22:55:07 <xelister> luke-jr: remove the too pale colors and leave default there
3333 2011-03-07 22:55:39 <luke-jr> xelister: which are pale?
3334 2011-03-07 22:55:47 <xelister> TX 367a2ae316c
3335 2011-03-07 22:55:56 <luke-jr> that's hot pink
3336 2011-03-07 22:56:04 <xelister> 0.03 BTC things I would make green
3337 2011-03-07 22:56:21 <xelister> luke-jr: can you set background? perhaps set black
3338 2011-03-07 22:56:53 <MagicalTux> 69.181.164.1
3339 2011-03-07 22:56:54 sabalabas has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3340 2011-03-07 22:57:11 jgarzik has joined
3341 2011-03-07 22:57:17 <MagicalTux> 69.181.164.1 <- this bitcoind node sent me 22481 addresses when I connected to it
3342 2011-03-07 22:57:21 CIA-55 has quit ()
3343 2011-03-07 22:57:24 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
3344 2011-03-07 22:57:24 jgarzik has joined
3345 2011-03-07 22:57:33 <MagicalTux> and of course, most of them were down
3346 2011-03-07 22:57:40 <luke-jr> xelister: it is, I think
3347 2011-03-07 22:57:41 <MagicalTux> I'll block this kind of behaviour to avoid future problems
3348 2011-03-07 22:57:45 * jgarzik kicks AT&T U-Verse
3349 2011-03-07 22:58:18 dirtyfilthy has joined
3350 2011-03-07 22:58:42 <luke-jr> xelister: BTC is light cyan with digits beyond hundredths in dark cyan, and TBC is light green
3351 2011-03-07 22:58:43 Bth8 has joined
3352 2011-03-07 22:58:58 <luke-jr> xelister: I'll demoâ¦
3353 2011-03-07 22:59:19 <dirtyfilthy> if the block chain forks and then joins, does the network in general take care of reinserting the trashed transactions... or does the individual client that sent them have to do it?
3354 2011-03-07 22:59:57 <MagicalTux> dirtyfilthy: bit of both
3355 2011-03-07 23:00:27 <MagicalTux> 69.181.164.1:8333 <- can anyone tell me anything about this bitcoin node? it returns version=105
3356 2011-03-07 23:00:27 <MagicalTux> xD
3357 2011-03-07 23:00:54 nameless has joined
3358 2011-03-07 23:00:54 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: maybe a Python impl?
3359 2011-03-07 23:00:54 <xelister> it is a gateway to univese of dark ones. Cthulu mines on it
3360 2011-03-07 23:01:03 <luke-jr> Santa Clara, CA
3361 2011-03-07 23:01:09 <luke-jr> Comcast
3362 2011-03-07 23:01:13 <luke-jr> (residential)
3363 2011-03-07 23:01:23 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: it advertised to me 22481 bitcoin ips
3364 2011-03-07 23:01:45 <ArtForz> maybe something designed as a experimental seednode?
3365 2011-03-07 23:01:48 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: sounds like a cracker
3366 2011-03-07 23:02:08 cschneid has joined
3367 2011-03-07 23:02:11 <MagicalTux> anyway now I'm ignoring replies from nodes with too many addresses
3368 2011-03-07 23:03:22 <dirtyfilthy> how do you tell that?
3369 2011-03-07 23:03:27 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3370 2011-03-07 23:03:48 <MagicalTux> https://stats.bitcoin.it/rrd/nodes_total-year.png <- the graph should be however rather representative
3371 2011-03-07 23:04:02 quellhor1t is now known as quellhorst
3372 2011-03-07 23:04:07 <MagicalTux> https://stats.bitcoin.it/rrd/nodes_up-year.png <- same graph with only the nodes where I could connect and communicate in bitcoin protocol
3373 2011-03-07 23:05:10 TD_ has joined
3374 2011-03-07 23:05:34 <knotwork> maybe they own a botnet and those are its 22481 IPs expected to fire up bitcoin at some point
3375 2011-03-07 23:06:22 <MagicalTux> knotwork: most of those ips will just timeout
3376 2011-03-07 23:06:41 <knotwork> yeah white bitcoin isn't actually running there sure
3377 2011-03-07 23:06:43 <ArtForz> shrug, maybe a list of all nodes ever?
3378 2011-03-07 23:06:49 <knotwork> s/white/while/
3379 2011-03-07 23:07:13 <knotwork> maybe setting up the seeds and later will transmit that modified client to those addresses
3380 2011-03-07 23:07:42 <MagicalTux> maybe an attempt to make the bitcoin network less reliable by seeding invalid ips
3381 2011-03-07 23:08:20 <ArtForz> a single node spewing a crapload of IPs on connect sounds like a pretty stupid way for that
3382 2011-03-07 23:08:54 <MagicalTux> ArtForz: I'll let you play with that node, if you want to analyze it a bit more :p
3383 2011-03-07 23:08:56 <knotwork> the person hacking the code might have little idea what it does,
3384 2011-03-07 23:09:19 <knotwork> simply thinking hmm apparently these are seed nodes, lets put mine in
3385 2011-03-07 23:09:36 <ArtForz> whatever
3386 2011-03-07 23:09:38 <knotwork> so most of his bots would talk to each other instead of the rest of the world
3387 2011-03-07 23:09:49 <ArtForz> we've already had competent addr() floods
3388 2011-03-07 23:11:08 <MagicalTux> anyway here I've reset down/unknown nodes, the graph will go back to normal soon
3389 2011-03-07 23:11:12 <MagicalTux> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Map <-
3390 2011-03-07 23:12:35 <knotwork> the normal client wouldn't tell neighbors any seed nodes it hasn't itself found to actually be online would it?
3391 2011-03-07 23:14:08 CIA-95 has joined
3392 2011-03-07 23:14:29 <lfm> knotwork: I think it might
3393 2011-03-07 23:14:53 satamusic_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3394 2011-03-07 23:14:59 <knotwork> I can understand a cracker not expecting it to do that
3395 2011-03-07 23:15:11 <knotwork> it probably ought not do that
3396 2011-03-07 23:15:14 <ArtForz> errr. it does
3397 2011-03-07 23:15:15 satamusic_ has joined
3398 2011-03-07 23:15:22 <ArtForz> check out the addr message handling/forwarding code
3399 2011-03-07 23:15:34 <lfm> they all have ages attached I think
3400 2011-03-07 23:15:47 <knotwork> well that sneaky trick maybe caught a cracker then by broadcasting his seed nodes even though they arent even up yet
3401 2011-03-07 23:17:15 <ArtForz> well, just guessing, bacues I once ran a node that behaved in a very similar fashion
3402 2011-03-07 23:17:18 <knotwork> if he releases that client to some people and has that many zombies he can surround them quite nicely
3403 2011-03-07 23:17:25 <xelister> I FOUND
3404 2011-03-07 23:17:31 <xelister> I FOUND THE OFFICIALL FONT USED BY ATI !!!!!!
3405 2011-03-07 23:17:37 <xelister> woah.
3406 2011-03-07 23:18:01 <ArtForz> before addr messages carried timestamps
3407 2011-03-07 23:18:25 <lfm> huh? ati only uses one font?
3408 2011-03-07 23:18:31 <ArtForz> you connect to it, get hit with all addr() it has ever seen, newest first
3409 2011-03-07 23:19:02 <ArtForz> python half-a-node + about 30 lines of code
3410 2011-03-07 23:19:10 <knotwork> does that include addresses only seen on an IRC channel?
3411 2011-03-07 23:19:23 <ArtForz> it dodnt even connect to IRC
3412 2011-03-07 23:19:25 <knotwork> maybe he changed IRC too, and has a channel someplace with his 22000+ bots on it
3413 2011-03-07 23:19:33 <ArtForz> I just seeded it from my nodes addr.dat
3414 2011-03-07 23:20:42 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
3415 2011-03-07 23:21:16 <ArtForz> well, I guess just compare the addr list that node returns against a long running nodes addr.dat
3416 2011-03-07 23:23:57 <ArtForz> wait, nowadays we clean up addr.dat periodically
3417 2011-03-07 23:24:01 <ArtForz> crap
3418 2011-03-07 23:25:51 <phantomcircuit> well if everybody stores where they got a tx from with a timestamp we'll be able to trace everybody!
3419 2011-03-07 23:25:53 <phantomcircuit> xD
3420 2011-03-07 23:27:34 satamusic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3421 2011-03-07 23:28:37 Sedo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3422 2011-03-07 23:36:31 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3423 2011-03-07 23:36:45 sabalabas has joined
3424 2011-03-07 23:37:02 <farzong> ;;roullette
3425 2011-03-07 23:37:03 <gribble> Error: "roullette" is not a valid command.
3426 2011-03-07 23:37:15 <farzong> ;;roulette
3427 2011-03-07 23:37:16 <gribble> *click*
3428 2011-03-07 23:37:21 <farzong> haha!
3429 2011-03-07 23:37:23 <farzong> ;;roulette
3430 2011-03-07 23:37:24 <gribble> *click*
3431 2011-03-07 23:37:29 <farzong> damn im lucky
3432 2011-03-07 23:37:54 <farzong> ;;roulette
3433 2011-03-07 23:37:55 <gribble> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
3434 2011-03-07 23:37:56 * gribble reloads and spins the chambers.
3435 2011-03-07 23:37:58 <farzong> crap
3436 2011-03-07 23:38:19 <farzong> ;;roulette
3437 2011-03-07 23:38:20 <gribble> *click*
3438 2011-03-07 23:38:21 <farzong> ;;roulette
3439 2011-03-07 23:38:22 <gribble> *click*
3440 2011-03-07 23:38:23 <farzong> ;;roulette
3441 2011-03-07 23:38:24 <gribble> *click*
3442 2011-03-07 23:38:38 <farzong> well even odds so far
3443 2011-03-07 23:38:40 <farzong> ;;roulette
3444 2011-03-07 23:38:41 <gribble> *click*
3445 2011-03-07 23:38:55 <luke-jr> â¦
3446 2011-03-07 23:39:07 ljrbot has joined
3447 2011-03-07 23:39:09 <luke-jr> ]y
3448 2011-03-07 23:39:14 <luke-jr> ]yanderestart
3449 2011-03-07 23:39:15 <ljrbot> luke-jr: Error: "yanderestart" is not a valid command.
3450 2011-03-07 23:39:21 <luke-jr> ]yandereinit
3451 2011-03-07 23:39:23 <ljrbot> luke-jr: Starting Yandere!
3452 2011-03-07 23:39:28 <luke-jr> ]y
3453 2011-03-07 23:39:28 <ljrbot> A yandere game is starting in 60 seconds! Please type "]yandere" to join.
3454 2011-03-07 23:39:29 <luke-jr> <.<
3455 2011-03-07 23:40:17 <luke-jr> ]y end
3456 2011-03-07 23:40:18 <ljrbot> The yandere game game has been forced to end.
3457 2011-03-07 23:40:19 <luke-jr> ]part
3458 2011-03-07 23:40:19 ljrbot has left ("luke-jr")
3459 2011-03-07 23:40:20 <luke-jr> oh well
3460 2011-03-07 23:43:23 Lachesis has joined
3461 2011-03-07 23:46:23 altamic has joined
3462 2011-03-07 23:46:23 altamic has quit (Changing host)
3463 2011-03-07 23:46:23 altamic has joined
3464 2011-03-07 23:48:08 <xelister> lfm: yes
3465 2011-03-07 23:48:09 <xelister> behold
3466 2011-03-07 23:48:16 <xelister> the officiall Ati font
3467 2011-03-07 23:48:17 <xelister> http://imagebin.org/141730
3468 2011-03-07 23:50:55 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3469 2011-03-07 23:51:31 <xelister> tadam.
3470 2011-03-07 23:51:38 <xelister> anyone? it took a while to found
3471 2011-03-07 23:52:42 <xelister> <lolcat> and what is bitcoin? ] lolcat is a user on channels: #bitcoin-dev #freenode ..... huh? :>
3472 2011-03-07 23:52:54 * xelister pokes lolcat in the eye
3473 2011-03-07 23:53:10 <lolcat> xelister: Why?
3474 2011-03-07 23:53:34 <BurtyB> woohoo looks like one of my miners found block for the pool slush :)
3475 2011-03-07 23:53:41 <xelister> lolcat: well you are on this chhannel, and you said you do not know what a bitcoin is? :)
3476 2011-03-07 23:54:09 <lolcat> I implied I didn't know what it is
3477 2011-03-07 23:54:17 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
3478 2011-03-07 23:54:23 * xelister scratches head
3479 2011-03-07 23:54:29 Shfork has joined
3480 2011-03-07 23:55:23 Shfork has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3481 2011-03-07 23:59:23 <molecular> "With the current total CPU power on the network, most CPUs will usually take months between successfully generating 50 BTC." <- I think the bitcoin.org mainpage should be updated
3482 2011-03-07 23:59:46 <molecular> while it's not untrue, it's quite misleading ;)
3483 2011-03-07 23:59:53 <MagicalTux> yeah
3484 2011-03-07 23:59:55 <MagicalTux> should read "years"