1 2011-03-09 00:00:00 <luke-jr> lol no
   2 2011-03-09 00:00:18 <Avemo> nanotube: r u still working on bitDNS?
   3 2011-03-09 00:00:40 <agorist> i understand with a normal desktop you can mine 50btc in a years time
   4 2011-03-09 00:00:53 <lfm> define normal?
   5 2011-03-09 00:01:07 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 12000
   6 2011-03-09 00:01:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 32 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes, and 41 seconds
   7 2011-03-09 00:01:19 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 8000
   8 2011-03-09 00:01:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 49 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 13 minutes, and 1 second
   9 2011-03-09 00:01:51 <Beremat> ;;bc,calc 8000 77000
  10 2011-03-09 00:01:54 <nanotube> Avemo: it's kind of on the backburner now...
  11 2011-03-09 00:01:55 <lfm> if you put an ati 5770 in it (about $100-$140) you can cut that down to a few weeksa
  12 2011-03-09 00:02:01 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
  13 2011-03-09 00:02:20 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 8000 77000
  14 2011-03-09 00:02:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77000, is 1 year, 16 weeks, 1 day, 11 hours, 4 minutes, and 20 seconds
  15 2011-03-09 00:03:02 <lfm> ;;bc,gend 8000 77000
  16 2011-03-09 00:03:03 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 8000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77000, is 0.104501649931 BTC per day and 0.00435423541379 BTC per hour.
  17 2011-03-09 00:03:05 <Avemo> nanotube: ok, I am starting working on that, more or less seriously and checkng out if there is a viable possibility to join forces with someone
  18 2011-03-09 00:03:10 <agorist> ;;bc,calcd 30000 77000
  19 2011-03-09 00:03:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77000, is 18 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 9 seconds
  20 2011-03-09 00:03:30 <agorist> ;;bc,calcd 300000 77000
  21 2011-03-09 00:03:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77000, is 1 week, 5 days, 18 hours, 12 minutes, and 54 seconds
  22 2011-03-09 00:03:36 <luke-jr> agorist: 50 BTC per year is not profitable
  23 2011-03-09 00:04:17 <lfm> luke-jr profit depends on income AND expenses
  24 2011-03-09 00:05:15 <agorist> what determines the difficulty?
  25 2011-03-09 00:05:28 <nanotube> Avemo: sounds cool. :) i don't really have spare capacity to devote to it at the moment... but please keep me posted. also, you could ask theymos and see if he's up for it...
  26 2011-03-09 00:05:51 <lfm> agorist: the difficulty is based on the time used to produce the previous set of 2016 blocks
  27 2011-03-09 00:06:03 <Avemo> nanotube: thanks, will do
  28 2011-03-09 00:08:05 <larsig> Avemo, are you into bitDNS?
  29 2011-03-09 00:08:11 <agorist> the thing is, one bitcoin gets popular and begins to replace the fiat currencies, what incentive will there be for bitcoin users to sell their bitcoins for fiat currencies
  30 2011-03-09 00:08:18 <agorist> once*
  31 2011-03-09 00:08:23 <lfm> luke-jr if you live in Chad you probably LIVE on about 50 btc / year
  32 2011-03-09 00:08:37 genjix has joined
  33 2011-03-09 00:08:38 genjix has quit (Changing host)
  34 2011-03-09 00:08:38 genjix has joined
  35 2011-03-09 00:08:52 <Avemo> not exactly bitDNS but DNS2.0 thing based on proof of work and block chain
  36 2011-03-09 00:09:01 <genjix> in america u fill your cars with gasoline
  37 2011-03-09 00:09:10 <genjix> so what do you call gas?
  38 2011-03-09 00:09:52 <nanotube> Avemo: so you plan on starting a separate block chain for dns?
  39 2011-03-09 00:09:57 <Avemo> yes
  40 2011-03-09 00:10:11 <lfm> genjix: gas is either the short form of gasoline or the vaporous state of matter depenind what you're talking about
  41 2011-03-09 00:10:24 <Avemo> unless I see a good argument against it
  42 2011-03-09 00:10:31 <nanotube> Avemo: ah cool. something like "each block gives you X domains" ?
  43 2011-03-09 00:10:58 <Avemo> yea, something as simple as possible but still covering all the bases, a-la bitcoin
  44 2011-03-09 00:11:23 <lfm> as simple as possible but no simpler?
  45 2011-03-09 00:11:29 <Avemo> yea
  46 2011-03-09 00:11:30 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  47 2011-03-09 00:12:06 <Avemo> i actually think that legacy DNS has so much BS in it which can be easily disposed off... that too
  48 2011-03-09 00:12:18 <[Noodles]> agorist: why should they sell their bitcoins for fiat currencies, if they can pay their bills in bitcoins? wouldn't they sell their fiat currencies for bitcoins instead?
  49 2011-03-09 00:12:34 <genjix> k thanks lfm
  50 2011-03-09 00:17:29 <luke-jr> [Noodles]: to sell your fiat, you have to find a buyer
  51 2011-03-09 00:17:31 <agorist> noodles: so one can buy bitcoins, someone else must sell some
  52 2011-03-09 00:18:07 <agorist> usually against one type of fiat currency
  53 2011-03-09 00:18:37 <luke-jr> basically, for bitcoin to succeed, either the Fed has to sell bitcoins, or all the Fed's money has to be lost
  54 2011-03-09 00:18:47 <nanotube> agorist: if the price is right... people will sell.
  55 2011-03-09 00:18:52 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
  56 2011-03-09 00:18:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112792 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 103 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 28 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77005.44626528
  57 2011-03-09 00:19:05 <nanotube> agorist: e.g, i'll sell you some bitcoins at 1usd/btc. :)
  58 2011-03-09 00:19:10 <luke-jr> I suppose you could end up using all the fiat up in taxes
  59 2011-03-09 00:19:22 <luke-jr> agorist: I'll sell up to 50 BTC at $1 ea
  60 2011-03-09 00:19:42 <agorist> nanotube, well at this present momen i would understand, i am talking way in the future, when fiat currencies will be worthless!
  61 2011-03-09 00:20:01 <nanotube> agorist: unless govt stops requiring fiat for taxes, they'll never be completely worthless.
  62 2011-03-09 00:20:32 <nanotube> sure, we may end up with 1billiondollar notes (ref: zimbabwe), but they'll still be out there, and needed for some things.
  63 2011-03-09 00:21:06 <agorist> i am just saying over time there will be less incentive to sell your bitcoins for fiat currencies
  64 2011-03-09 00:21:25 <[Noodles]> trade 'em for goods and service then
  65 2011-03-09 00:22:00 <luke-jr> hehe
  66 2011-03-09 00:22:12 <luke-jr> [Noodles] has a point
  67 2011-03-09 00:22:17 <luke-jr> people can't just stop accepting USD
  68 2011-03-09 00:23:48 <lfm> best bitcoin can hope for is hyperinflation of national currencies. it would not be pretty
  69 2011-03-09 00:24:17 <agorist> we have hyperinflation
  70 2011-03-09 00:24:21 <agorist> not price hyperinflation yet
  71 2011-03-09 00:24:45 <agorist> but the monetary base doubled in the last decade, compared to all us history
  72 2011-03-09 00:25:35 <luke-jr> monetary base?
  73 2011-03-09 00:25:58 <agorist> number of fiat currencies in world economy
  74 2011-03-09 00:26:11 <agorist> number of paper dollars circulating
  75 2011-03-09 00:26:18 <luke-jr> ⁇?
  76 2011-03-09 00:26:21 Cusipzzz has joined
  77 2011-03-09 00:27:37 <agorist> it seems BTC is gaining value fast
  78 2011-03-09 00:27:46 <luke-jr> agorist: really?
  79 2011-03-09 00:27:52 <luke-jr> it's been down for like a month now
  80 2011-03-09 00:27:56 <agorist> last month it was at around .50USD = 1BTC no ?
  81 2011-03-09 00:28:33 <sipa> that's longer ago
  82 2011-03-09 00:29:10 <luke-jr> agorist: no, a month ago it was where it is now
  83 2011-03-09 00:29:24 <luke-jr> 2 weeks ago, it was over $1
  84 2011-03-09 00:29:54 <agorist> what drives the price of BTC up ;)
  85 2011-03-09 00:29:59 <genjix> bitcoins been slowly eeking down
  86 2011-03-09 00:30:05 <agorist> aside from the demand for it
  87 2011-03-09 00:30:15 <luke-jr> agorist: just demand.
  88 2011-03-09 00:30:39 <agorist> and hoarding, but that's related to demand
  89 2011-03-09 00:30:52 <agorist> hoarding resulting in less supply
  90 2011-03-09 00:31:32 * luke-jr wonders if he is hoarding.
  91 2011-03-09 00:32:06 <agorist> hoarding is good
  92 2011-03-09 00:32:12 <Blitzboom> yeah
  93 2011-03-09 00:32:14 <Blitzboom> hoard more :P
  94 2011-03-09 00:32:16 <luke-jr> doesn't mean I'm doing it :P
  95 2011-03-09 00:32:17 <[Noodles]> buying is better
  96 2011-03-09 00:32:23 <[Noodles]> go buy some
  97 2011-03-09 00:32:36 <agorist> buying drives prices up!
  98 2011-03-09 00:32:50 <luke-jr> I demand .94 for <=15 BTC, .97 for <=25 BTC, $1 for <=50 BTC, and $1.06 for more
  99 2011-03-09 00:33:01 <luke-jr> I have enough for now.
 100 2011-03-09 00:33:10 <agorist> shouldnt it be the opposite..
 101 2011-03-09 00:33:31 <[Noodles]> not at all
 102 2011-03-09 00:33:41 <luke-jr> agorist: more like, I can afford to lose .06 for only 50 BTC :p
 103 2011-03-09 00:33:49 <luke-jr> etc
 104 2011-03-09 00:34:10 <agorist> usually the more you buy the better deal you get
 105 2011-03-09 00:34:21 <luke-jr> maybe that's where you draw the line for hoarding
 106 2011-03-09 00:34:30 <luke-jr> I'd rather keep my bitcoin than sell, so it's inverted
 107 2011-03-09 00:34:45 <luke-jr> I'm willing to part with less cheaper, but if you want to buy all of mine, I'll charge a lot
 108 2011-03-09 00:34:50 <agorist> what drives demand for BTC ?
 109 2011-03-09 00:35:06 <larsig> nutheads like you and me
 110 2011-03-09 00:35:12 <agorist> HAHA
 111 2011-03-09 00:35:14 <luke-jr> agorist: irrational buy-in
 112 2011-03-09 00:35:33 <luke-jr> potential for deflation
 113 2011-03-09 00:35:49 <luke-jr> at this stage, bitcoin is like a MLM
 114 2011-03-09 00:35:56 <agorist> I see a huge industry involving BTC
 115 2011-03-09 00:36:15 <agorist> other exchange markets, escrow services, dispute resolutors, etc
 116 2011-03-09 00:36:44 satamusic has joined
 117 2011-03-09 00:36:51 <luke-jr> someone forgot to put access to block height/time in bitcoin scripting, or else escrow would be part of the system -.-
 118 2011-03-09 00:37:20 <luke-jr> and more fun things, even
 119 2011-03-09 00:38:13 <luke-jr> just think, you pay me $100 for instant-access to 100 BTC if you need it, but after a month ownership of that 100 BTC reverts back to me if you haven't taken it (and I return $90)
 120 2011-03-09 00:38:15 <luke-jr> :p
 121 2011-03-09 00:38:42 <magnetron> 11.1% interest rate per month
 122 2011-03-09 00:38:46 <luke-jr> in the meantime, you know I *can't* go back on the offer
 123 2011-03-09 00:38:59 <luke-jr> magnetron: not interest, cost of providing the lock-in price
 124 2011-03-09 00:39:11 <magnetron> aka interest
 125 2011-03-09 00:39:21 <luke-jr> so for example, if the price goes up to $2 per BTC, you have control of that 100 BTC
 126 2011-03-09 00:39:27 <luke-jr> and can sell it for a profit
 127 2011-03-09 00:39:52 <luke-jr> I suppose that it can be done manually too
 128 2011-03-09 00:40:11 <luke-jr> eg, I just send you 100 BTC, and you get $90 back when you return it (with a time limit)
 129 2011-03-09 00:40:43 <luke-jr> you can kindof do escrow-like stuff too
 130 2011-03-09 00:40:50 <agorist> how many btc you got luke
 131 2011-03-09 00:41:12 <luke-jr> just require 2 addresses (one the buyer holds, and one the seller holds) to redeem a tx, and only give the seller your key when you get the product
 132 2011-03-09 00:41:19 <luke-jr> good way to lose bitcoins forever tho :/
 133 2011-03-09 00:41:28 <luke-jr> agorist: 350 or so I think
 134 2011-03-09 00:41:34 <agorist> you got them most how?
 135 2011-03-09 00:41:38 <luke-jr> 342*
 136 2011-03-09 00:41:50 <luke-jr> bought on market I think is my #1 source
 137 2011-03-09 00:42:20 <luke-jr> maybe
 138 2011-03-09 00:42:34 <luke-jr> I have made 350 from mining, so I guess that might be
 139 2011-03-09 00:42:38 <agorist> you bought them at home much?
 140 2011-03-09 00:42:47 <agorist> 350 from mining!
 141 2011-03-09 00:42:53 <luke-jr> my first 100 BTC I got at $0.40 ea
 142 2011-03-09 00:43:08 <agorist> nice
 143 2011-03-09 00:43:09 akem has joined
 144 2011-03-09 00:43:34 <luke-jr> wish I bought more then
 145 2011-03-09 00:43:36 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 146 2011-03-09 00:43:37 <luke-jr> would be rich now
 147 2011-03-09 00:43:38 <luke-jr> :p
 148 2011-03-09 00:43:45 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
 149 2011-03-09 00:43:46 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.885,"low":0.85,"vol":4858,"buy":0.8505,"sell":0.87,"last":0.8513}}
 150 2011-03-09 00:44:25 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 151 2011-03-09 00:44:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112796 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 99 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 3 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77024.78048780
 152 2011-03-09 00:44:32 <luke-jr> 99 blocks left :x
 153 2011-03-09 00:45:14 <knotwork> how long since last difficulty change? seems like very few days is it two weeks already?
 154 2011-03-09 00:45:14 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 77024
 155 2011-03-09 00:45:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77024, is 2 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes, and 0 seconds
 156 2011-03-09 00:45:27 <luke-jr> knotwork: Feb 27 was last increase
 157 2011-03-09 00:45:44 <luke-jr> so 9 days
 158 2011-03-09 00:45:45 <agorist> is that how much hash speed ya got luke ?
 159 2011-03-09 00:45:48 <knotwork> wow time flies
 160 2011-03-09 00:45:49 <luke-jr> agorist: yeah
 161 2011-03-09 00:46:06 <luke-jr> with the next difficulty I may be forced back into a pool :<
 162 2011-03-09 00:46:10 <genjix> why does fread take size of data + number of elements?
 163 2011-03-09 00:46:20 <luke-jr> genjix: that's what POSIX sez
 164 2011-03-09 00:46:22 <genjix> why not just as 1 arg being total data?
 165 2011-03-09 00:46:36 <genjix> is there a particular reason for it?
 166 2011-03-09 00:46:53 <luke-jr> genjix: probably to make reading arrays easier to reverse engineer <.<
 167 2011-03-09 00:47:09 <luke-jr> and avoid overflows unnecessarily
 168 2011-03-09 00:47:15 <genjix> ic
 169 2011-03-09 00:48:51 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 77024
 170 2011-03-09 00:48:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77024, is 2 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes, and 0 seconds
 171 2011-03-09 00:48:53 <luke-jr> oops
 172 2011-03-09 00:48:55 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 173 2011-03-09 00:48:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112796 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 99 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 3 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77024.78048780
 174 2011-03-09 00:49:08 <luke-jr> eh, I thoguth there was another block
 175 2011-03-09 00:53:46 lfm has quit (Quit: bbl)
 176 2011-03-09 00:56:35 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 177 2011-03-09 00:56:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112797 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 98 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 59 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77002.68502581
 178 2011-03-09 00:56:45 <luke-jr> oh good, it's going down
 179 2011-03-09 00:57:41 mundkur has joined
 180 2011-03-09 00:58:01 <Beremat> I think that hour or so with whatever supercomputer was mining skewed it a bit.
 181 2011-03-09 00:58:23 <sipa> it stopped
 182 2011-03-09 00:59:12 <phantomcircuit> rofl
 183 2011-03-09 00:59:33 <phantomcircuit> 'script': b'H0E\x02 :Q\xb0\x87\xa9\x9e\xf2\x8f\xfb\xcc\xb1\xa0\x17-\xe1Q\xf3\x88\xc9\x85\xd4p\x86\xd0\xe1\x12b3\xde\xd7;&\x02!\x00\x8a\xf8 \xd1%\x85\xc0S\xc1_\xc2u\xc9\xcc\x15\x90\x95\x86\xda\xfb\x83\xff\xf3r\xc6\xb5uS\xe5\x08;\xb2\x01A\x04\xc4XV1\xf8\x0b=\xf7\x9d`.\xc9\xdd}\xd5\x974F\x9474\xc1\x03\xfa\xd1D}\x08)\xaf\x86ABY\xfc\x98q\xbby\xbb\xbf\x04\xafu\x93\x9f\xe7\x85\xf4\xf9\xbdd\x84?\x98\x99.\x12v3\xde\xa1\x9
 184 2011-03-09 00:59:33 <phantomcircuit> cA'
 185 2011-03-09 00:59:34 <phantomcircuit> wtf
 186 2011-03-09 00:59:46 farzong has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 187 2011-03-09 00:59:47 <phantomcircuit> someone getting clever with the scripts lol
 188 2011-03-09 01:00:17 <phantomcircuit> ps i've got 3 txs like that
 189 2011-03-09 01:01:03 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
 190 2011-03-09 01:01:26 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, scripts that start with GOD or HOE
 191 2011-03-09 01:01:46 <luke-jr> coincidence?
 192 2011-03-09 01:01:51 <phantomcircuit> i dont think so
 193 2011-03-09 01:02:12 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 194 2011-03-09 01:02:37 <doublec> messages from god?
 195 2011-03-09 01:04:15 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 196 2011-03-09 01:04:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112798 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 97 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 53 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76991.64204789
 197 2011-03-09 01:06:33 <mizerydearia> Is there a website dedicated to a calendar or timeline of bitcoin-related events including all scheduled talks regarding or covering bitcoin?
 198 2011-03-09 01:06:50 <mizerydearia> past and future
 199 2011-03-09 01:07:38 <nanotube> mizerydearia: you can probably come close by looking at bitcoinnews.com
 200 2011-03-09 01:07:47 <mizerydearia> mm, thanks
 201 2011-03-09 01:08:38 <phantomcircuit> BAD28758D00149799613E8934972AD077A44DD5FC32A4802EAF433ED00000000
 202 2011-03-09 01:08:45 <phantomcircuit> hmm that's the last block i have
 203 2011-03-09 01:11:08 <agorist> with bitcoin's guaranteed price deflation over time, hoarding will be the norm, driving interest rates down and hence guaranteeing increased production, making everyone wealthier
 204 2011-03-09 01:11:11 <agorist> this is amazing
 205 2011-03-09 01:11:12 <agorist> :D :D
 206 2011-03-09 01:11:44 <agorist> this will change the world
 207 2011-03-09 01:11:57 <agorist> we will become light beings!
 208 2011-03-09 01:12:00 <agorist> eventually
 209 2011-03-09 01:12:03 <agorist> :p
 210 2011-03-09 01:13:21 <genjix> mizerydearia: yeah the posts by sgnornick
 211 2011-03-09 01:13:42 <genjix> Sirius: maybe make signornicks posts higher profile?
 212 2011-03-09 01:13:53 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4288.0
 213 2011-03-09 01:14:11 <genjix> he's been doing this consistently... might merit having a front page news feef
 214 2011-03-09 01:14:14 <genjix> feed
 215 2011-03-09 01:14:15 <genjix> or s ticky
 216 2011-03-09 01:15:40 <phantomcircuit> SELECT hash FROM blocks WHERE hash NOT IN (SELECT prev_hash FROM blocks);
 217 2011-03-09 01:15:42 <phantomcircuit> 0 results
 218 2011-03-09 01:15:51 <phantomcircuit> er
 219 2011-03-09 01:16:05 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/History
 220 2011-03-09 01:17:02 <phantomcircuit> http://codepad.org/ZmC5OJ8s
 221 2011-03-09 01:17:33 <phantomcircuit> the 3rd query clearly shows that the 1st should have returned that hash
 222 2011-03-09 01:17:37 <phantomcircuit> or amidoinitwrong
 223 2011-03-09 01:17:56 <agorist> nanotube: what could replace gpus for mining ?
 224 2011-03-09 01:17:57 ivan has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
 225 2011-03-09 01:19:25 <luke-jr> agorist: custom chips like ArtForz has
 226 2011-03-09 01:19:50 <agorist> :o
 227 2011-03-09 01:19:56 <agorist> me want
 228 2011-03-09 01:20:19 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 229 2011-03-09 01:21:00 <phantomcircuit> bah storing a DAG in sqlite was a bad ida
 230 2011-03-09 01:21:02 <phantomcircuit> idea
 231 2011-03-09 01:21:08 ivan has joined
 232 2011-03-09 01:21:30 <genjix> luke-jr: is that a joke? :O
 233 2011-03-09 01:21:32 da2ce7 has quit ()
 234 2011-03-09 01:21:45 <genjix> custom chips... like arduinos?
 235 2011-03-09 01:22:10 <luke-jr> genjix: ArtForz had a bunch of chips fabbed just for mining
 236 2011-03-09 01:23:30 <genjix> haha brilliant
 237 2011-03-09 01:24:45 <sipa> $50000 investment
 238 2011-03-09 01:25:10 <sipa> 100 chips, each using 7W and doing 200MH/s
 239 2011-03-09 01:26:31 <genjix> crysis must be as hot as a pedophile in a playschool
 240 2011-03-09 01:26:40 <luke-jr> I wonder if that's what keeps getting turned on/off
 241 2011-03-09 01:27:54 <luke-jr> sgornick: poclbm-mod doesn't seem to improve anything besides output formatting :P
 242 2011-03-09 01:29:18 spenvo has joined
 243 2011-03-09 01:29:19 <sgornick> I couldn't even get it to finish downloading (timeout), ... so why do they claim 100% efficiency?
 244 2011-03-09 01:29:40 <mizerydearia> Does anyone know how to contact George Carlin?
 245 2011-03-09 01:29:48 <mizerydearia> Has anyone contacted George Carlin and introduced Bitcoin to him?
 246 2011-03-09 01:29:59 <spenvo> try twitter
 247 2011-03-09 01:30:06 <mizerydearia> I don't use twitter =/
 248 2011-03-09 01:30:16 <mizerydearia> Can someone send George Carlin a message on twitter and introduce bitcoin to him? ^_^
 249 2011-03-09 01:30:22 <spenvo> kk
 250 2011-03-09 01:31:00 <sgornick> Are you referring to the george carlin who died a couple years ago?
 251 2011-03-09 01:31:09 <mizerydearia> oh?
 252 2011-03-09 01:31:21 <mizerydearia> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&NR=1
 253 2011-03-09 01:31:25 <mizerydearia> boooo =/
 254 2011-03-09 01:31:30 <mizerydearia> he's dead?
 255 2011-03-09 01:31:49 <agorist> rip george carling :(
 256 2011-03-09 01:31:52 <Cusipzzz> Carlin is dead
 257 2011-03-09 01:31:58 <luke-jr> wtf is a Wallet ID?
 258 2011-03-09 01:32:19 <luke-jr> sgornick: my guess is it only improves pool mining
 259 2011-03-09 01:32:26 spenvo has quit (Client Quit)
 260 2011-03-09 01:32:36 <mizerydearia> boo, that really sucks
 261 2011-03-09 01:32:46 spenvo has joined
 262 2011-03-09 01:32:46 <genjix> he made good beer
 263 2011-03-09 01:33:01 <genjix> but we still have that brand in the uk?
 264 2011-03-09 01:33:01 <spenvo> damn web irc
 265 2011-03-09 01:33:36 <spenvo> mizerydearia: on that note, this is what i've been posting to my [intelligent] friends on facebook, use it where you can:
 266 2011-03-09 01:33:38 <genjix> http://lateorders.com/images/Carling.jpg
 267 2011-03-09 01:33:42 <spenvo> I'm curious if you've heard of Bitcoin (BTC). It's a new type of currency--unique in that it's not associated with a central banking authority, nor is it dependent on trusted third parties (Paypal) for online transactions. If you haven't heard about BTC, you'll probably read about it sometime soon. Here's the wikipedia article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
 268 2011-03-09 01:33:50 <genjix> lol u use spazzbook
 269 2011-03-09 01:33:54 <genjix> LAMER
 270 2011-03-09 01:34:02 <mizerydearia> what's facebook?
 271 2011-03-09 01:34:12 <Cusipzzz> i think it's like myspace
 272 2011-03-09 01:34:15 <mizerydearia> what's that?
 273 2011-03-09 01:34:17 <genjix> mizerydearia: its where all the nolifers go
 274 2011-03-09 01:34:17 da2ce7 has joined
 275 2011-03-09 01:34:17 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
 276 2011-03-09 01:34:17 da2ce7 has joined
 277 2011-03-09 01:34:18 <spenvo> hahaha, use it where you can beotch
 278 2011-03-09 01:34:36 <spenvo> wassup cusipz!
 279 2011-03-09 01:34:38 <genjix> bitch, look how popular i am and witty.
 280 2011-03-09 01:34:38 <mizerydearia> oh, is that like alamak.com but bigger?
 281 2011-03-09 01:34:50 <Cusipzzz> heya spenvo
 282 2011-03-09 01:34:51 <mizerydearia> e.g. http://alamak.com/
 283 2011-03-09 01:35:15 <genjix> haha this alamak site looks real ghetto
 284 2011-03-09 01:35:38 <spenvo> mizery, why aren't you on twitter.  doesn't have to connect back to a real name, necessarily - and you want to get in touch with people
 285 2011-03-09 01:35:38 <mizerydearia> genjix, it's from like 1995 or so
 286 2011-03-09 01:35:45 <Cusipzzz> i think it's a smaller Orkut
 287 2011-03-09 01:35:46 <mizerydearia> a few updates since then though
 288 2011-03-09 01:35:50 phantomcircuit has left ("Leaving")
 289 2011-03-09 01:35:58 * jgarzik needs to find someone to implement multi-pool support for cpuminer
 290 2011-03-09 01:36:07 <jgarzik> where, if one pool dies, miner automatically falls back to another
 291 2011-03-09 01:36:24 <mizerydearia> spenvo, because I don't have time for socializing on Internet besides irc?
 292 2011-03-09 01:36:34 <mizerydearia> irc > twitter
 293 2011-03-09 01:36:51 <spenvo> big words for someone who hasn't tried it
 294 2011-03-09 01:36:52 <genjix> mizerydearia: heh im same... i only use mutt + irc for online contact :)
 295 2011-03-09 01:36:55 <mizerydearia> spenvo, I have tried it
 296 2011-03-09 01:36:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: just run 2 instances?
 297 2011-03-09 01:37:00 <spenvo> hmm
 298 2011-03-09 01:37:21 <mizerydearia> spenvo, I have many twitter accounts, but I rarely ever use any of them
 299 2011-03-09 01:37:22 <genjix> i prefer to just speak about topics, not to personalities
 300 2011-03-09 01:37:35 <spenvo> that's not trying it
 301 2011-03-09 01:37:37 <mizerydearia> yes, twitter is popular, but that doesn't imply betterness
 302 2011-03-09 01:37:52 <mizerydearia> spenvo, I have sent many messages in the past and received responses and rt of my posts
 303 2011-03-09 01:37:57 <spenvo> well, i've had good experience with getting in touch with people i don't know / having phone calls etc
 304 2011-03-09 01:38:00 <agorist> what if lfnet gets ddosed? would that bring bring the bitcoin network temporarily to a halt ?
 305 2011-03-09 01:38:02 <genjix> i.e #math #bitcoin #cooltopic, not John Doe, Tracy Blaa, Mr X
 306 2011-03-09 01:38:11 <mizerydearia> spenvo, I do admit that it may seem like a great way to contact just about anyone though
 307 2011-03-09 01:38:12 <genjix> agorist: no
 308 2011-03-09 01:38:21 <mizerydearia> however, I do not actively use twitter
 309 2011-03-09 01:38:21 <agorist> genjix, why no
 310 2011-03-09 01:38:23 <mizerydearia> anymore
 311 2011-03-09 01:38:42 <genjix> agorist: it's just one convenient method of bootstrapping (finding other nodes) but not neccessary.
 312 2011-03-09 01:38:59 <mizerydearia> gah, my name is really long compared to everyone else's
 313 2011-03-09 01:38:59 <agorist> what are the other methods
 314 2011-03-09 01:39:12 <spenvo> mizery, yes irc is terrific open, easy to communicate, real time etc; twitter is a lesser version of irc in many ways, except that the audience is huge
 315 2011-03-09 01:39:22 <genjix> theres a list hardcoded of 300 starter nodes
 316 2011-03-09 01:39:22 <mizerydearia> yeah
 317 2011-03-09 01:39:23 <jgarzik> agorist: -addnode, -connect, compiled-in fallback nodes
 318 2011-03-09 01:39:36 <mizerydearia> it would be awesome to establish a kind of twitter-like site based on irc
 319 2011-03-09 01:39:49 <agorist> jgarzik, thanks that makes sense :p
 320 2011-03-09 01:40:00 <FellowTraveler1> hi all
 321 2011-03-09 01:40:01 <spenvo> mizery, lol, i can't imagine how fast the stream would be
 322 2011-03-09 01:40:08 <agorist> twitter <<< irc
 323 2011-03-09 01:40:09 <spenvo> wassup fellow!
 324 2011-03-09 01:40:20 <genjix> i want a voice version of irc
 325 2011-03-09 01:40:29 <mizerydearia> hehe, how would that work?
 326 2011-03-09 01:40:30 <MagicalTux> genjix, mumble?
 327 2011-03-09 01:40:33 <mizerydearia> teamspeak?  ventrilo?
 328 2011-03-09 01:40:35 <genjix> like vent
 329 2011-03-09 01:41:19 <genjix> thats why i dont like all these things like facebook, msn, skype, .etc
 330 2011-03-09 01:41:27 <genjix> they're centered around your friends
 331 2011-03-09 01:41:35 <genjix> whereas irc is centered around topics
 332 2011-03-09 01:41:47 <genjix> like how websites work
 333 2011-03-09 01:42:19 <spenvo> here's the thing about twitter and elicitting responses from big shots/e-celebrities- if you contact them publically with the @ sign, they feel like they're being watched and have a social obligation to reply to you.  that has it's advantages
 334 2011-03-09 01:42:35 <spenvo> e-celebs like george carlin if he were alive
 335 2011-03-09 01:42:36 <mizerydearia> yeah, witcoin is centered around topics too
 336 2011-03-09 01:42:54 <mizerydearia> reddit, stackoverflow also
 337 2011-03-09 01:43:03 <genjix> <3 stackoverflow format
 338 2011-03-09 01:43:07 * mizerydearia agrees
 339 2011-03-09 01:43:16 <mizerydearia> genjix, what in particular do you like about stackoverflow format?
 340 2011-03-09 01:43:16 <genjix> the site works technically very well
 341 2011-03-09 01:43:52 MUILTFN has joined
 342 2011-03-09 01:43:53 <genjix> the main thing is how you can tell it's written by programmers because it's very polished :p
 343 2011-03-09 01:43:54 <mizerydearia> <spenvo> here's the thing about twitter and elicitting responses from big shots/e-celebrities- if you contact them publically with the @ sign, they feel like they're being watched and have a social obligation to reply to you.  that has it's advantages
 344 2011-03-09 01:43:58 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
 345 2011-03-09 01:44:06 <genjix> but also the threaded format
 346 2011-03-09 01:44:16 <genjix> big responses/smaller ones
 347 2011-03-09 01:44:17 <mizerydearia> spenvo, Yeah, too bad my personal family rarely respond to anything I write to them.  I bet they would respond if our discussions were public
 348 2011-03-09 01:44:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112804 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 91 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 15 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77024.78048780
 349 2011-03-09 01:44:53 <mizerydearia> hmm, big responses/smaller ones?
 350 2011-03-09 01:45:16 <genjix> mizerydearia: but if you look at stackoverflow, the other branches of that site are all geared towards nerdy technical subjects
 351 2011-03-09 01:45:26 <genjix> so i think that format is hard for normal people
 352 2011-03-09 01:45:31 <mizerydearia> mm
 353 2011-03-09 01:45:33 <genjix> normal people prefer yahoo answers
 354 2011-03-09 01:45:42 <mizerydearia> genjix, Also it seems that each branch uses its own database
 355 2011-03-09 01:45:46 <spenvo> <mizerdearia>if it makes you feel any better, my pops chewed me out today because he wants me to look for a "real" job and found out that i had started another project instead
 356 2011-03-09 01:46:10 <spenvo> god i hate web irc
 357 2011-03-09 01:46:17 <mizerydearia> mibbit?
 358 2011-03-09 01:46:20 <agorist> spenvo, get mirc!
 359 2011-03-09 01:46:28 <mizerydearia> spenvo, ms comic chat
 360 2011-03-09 01:46:30 <mizerydearia> it makes irc fun!
 361 2011-03-09 01:46:30 <genjix> so..... i've learnt that examining my workflow is worthless because im very atypical
 362 2011-03-09 01:46:42 <genjix> things seem logical to me are confusing for others
 363 2011-03-09 01:46:48 <spenvo> if that's a desktop client i can't cause i'm at a public computer
 364 2011-03-09 01:47:02 <genjix> things that seem messy to me are good for others
 365 2011-03-09 01:47:17 <genjix> look at the front page of yahoo.com ... i think that page has a terrible design
 366 2011-03-09 01:47:22 * mizerydearia checks
 367 2011-03-09 01:47:23 <genjix> it's just a mess
 368 2011-03-09 01:47:28 <mizerydearia> ewww, that's dirty
 369 2011-03-09 01:47:39 <genjix> yet, that site is one of the most popular sites worldwide
 370 2011-03-09 01:47:46 <genjix> it's a new portal for many people
 371 2011-03-09 01:47:54 <mizerydearia> yahoo is only popular because of name recognition
 372 2011-03-09 01:47:56 <genjix> so whatever...
 373 2011-03-09 01:48:01 <mizerydearia> e.g. it was one of the first sites to exist
 374 2011-03-09 01:48:14 <spenvo> just today got a ui/ux guy to redesign the bulletin
 375 2011-03-09 01:48:17 <genjix> really? i've heard that people like it
 376 2011-03-09 01:48:37 <genjix> i mean look at yahoo answers
 377 2011-03-09 01:48:43 <mizerydearia> yahoo Santa Clara, California (March 1, 1995)
 378 2011-03-09 01:48:48 <genjix> so many retarded people post on there
 379 2011-03-09 01:48:56 <mizerydearia> founded date o/
 380 2011-03-09 01:49:15 <genjix> don't you think there's a UI design for less technical than more technical people?
 381 2011-03-09 01:49:20 <mizerydearia> In April 1994, "David and Jerry's Guide to the World Wide Web" was renamed "Yahoo!".
 382 2011-03-09 01:49:22 <genjix> both being mutually exclusive.
 383 2011-03-09 01:50:08 <mizerydearia> It's kind of like bitcoin community (a subcommunity of internet community)
 384 2011-03-09 01:50:12 <genjix> one is clunky/obvious, the other informative/streamlined.
 385 2011-03-09 01:50:25 <mizerydearia> Many of us early adopters established more recognition than newcomers
 386 2011-03-09 01:50:26 <genjix> yahoo answers vs stackoverflow
 387 2011-03-09 01:50:41 <mizerydearia> although I am not that early of an adopter
 388 2011-03-09 01:52:31 <genjix> "Outburst-prone actor Charlie Sheen is reportedly seeking a social media intern to manage his Twitter account."
 389 2011-03-09 01:52:39 <genjix> what kind of line of work is that?
 390 2011-03-09 01:52:42 <mizerydearia> heh, intern
 391 2011-03-09 01:52:47 <mizerydearia> what gender?
 392 2011-03-09 01:53:04 <genjix> where can one do social media studies?
 393 2011-03-09 01:53:14 <mizerydearia> in charlie sheen's special room?
 394 2011-03-09 01:54:02 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: earlier than me
 395 2011-03-09 01:54:12 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: where'd you disappear to like all January btw?
 396 2011-03-09 01:54:19 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, mm, I came during first /. article
 397 2011-03-09 01:54:26 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, =/  homelessness
 398 2011-03-09 01:54:37 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: landlord wouldn't take ur BTCs? :p
 399 2011-03-09 01:54:41 <mizerydearia> heh
 400 2011-03-09 01:54:44 <spenvo> sorry to steer the discussion from winning and tiger blood, i thought yall might want to see this / rage against the fed. you tube vid: This is why Bitcoin may increase in value. High level Fed officials are unable to answer basic questions coherently:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYNVNhB-m0o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 401 2011-03-09 01:54:51 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: if you recall, you introduced me to bitcoin on Gregorian new years'
 402 2011-03-09 01:54:52 <spenvo> and i'm out
 403 2011-03-09 01:55:02 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, oh?
 404 2011-03-09 01:55:05 spenvo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 405 2011-03-09 01:55:05 <luke-jr> XD
 406 2011-03-09 01:55:18 <mizerydearia> I actually don't remember.
 407 2011-03-09 01:55:23 <luke-jr> in #freenode-newyears
 408 2011-03-09 01:55:28 <mizerydearia> oooh, right!
 409 2011-03-09 01:55:29 <mizerydearia> awesome!
 410 2011-03-09 01:55:32 <luke-jr> XD
 411 2011-03-09 01:55:50 <mizerydearia> yeah, I've been trying to spamvertise it occasionally
 412 2011-03-09 01:55:56 <luke-jr> I was busy telling everyone the Tonal new year had started a week or so earlier
 413 2011-03-09 01:55:59 <mizerydearia> there's a lot of opposition, but oh well, people are stupid
 414 2011-03-09 01:56:06 <luke-jr> then all of a sudden you piqued my interest
 415 2011-03-09 01:56:10 <mizerydearia> woo
 416 2011-03-09 01:56:24 <mizerydearia> trying to overcome stupidity is difficult
 417 2011-03-09 01:56:24 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: I find a lot of opposition even here
 418 2011-03-09 01:56:27 <luke-jr> yeah
 419 2011-03-09 01:56:35 <mizerydearia> it's not just with bitcoin
 420 2011-03-09 01:56:36 <luke-jr> same stuff for Tonal
 421 2011-03-09 01:56:37 <mizerydearia> about many topics
 422 2011-03-09 01:56:42 <luke-jr> that's what I mean
 423 2011-03-09 01:56:52 <luke-jr> lots of people here, while open to BitCoin, are hostile to Tonal
 424 2011-03-09 01:56:58 <mizerydearia> and it's not even about critical thinking
 425 2011-03-09 01:57:08 <mizerydearia> it's people that don't think whatsoever and establish behaviors based on patterns
 426 2011-03-09 01:57:13 <luke-jr> yep
 427 2011-03-09 01:57:30 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
 428 2011-03-09 01:57:34 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: want a TBC?
 429 2011-03-09 01:57:35 <luke-jr> :P
 430 2011-03-09 01:57:41 <mizerydearia> tuberculosis?  i have no idea
 431 2011-03-09 01:57:44 <luke-jr> -.-
 432 2011-03-09 01:57:47 <luke-jr> Tonal BitCoin
 433 2011-03-09 01:57:54 <luke-jr> you missed out on it :p
 434 2011-03-09 01:57:55 <mizerydearia> oooh
 435 2011-03-09 01:58:00 <luke-jr> you introduce me to BitCoin on Jan 1
 436 2011-03-09 01:58:03 <mizerydearia> I read that as in what is a tbc?
 437 2011-03-09 01:58:07 <luke-jr> I spec out Tonal BitCoin by Jan 2 :P
 438 2011-03-09 01:58:31 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin
 439 2011-03-09 01:58:45 * mizerydearia reads 
 440 2011-03-09 01:58:46 <mizerydearia> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin
 441 2011-03-09 01:58:48 <mizerydearia> durr
 442 2011-03-09 01:58:49 <mizerydearia> you beat me
 443 2011-03-09 01:59:20 <mizerydearia> heh, Tam-BitCoin
 444 2011-03-09 01:59:25 <mizerydearia> is there a Gam-BitCoin?
 445 2011-03-09 01:59:29 <mizerydearia> or a Rab-BitCoin?
 446 2011-03-09 01:59:32 <luke-jr> usually people heh over Bong-
 447 2011-03-09 02:00:02 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, I imagine those people are drug-enthusiasts of sorts perhaps
 448 2011-03-09 02:00:11 <mizerydearia> I am too, but not actively participant
 449 2011-03-09 02:00:20 <mizerydearia> participative
 450 2011-03-09 02:00:23 <luke-jr> lol
 451 2011-03-09 02:00:32 <mizerydearia> e.g. if you say drugs are bad, you're dumb
 452 2011-03-09 02:00:36 <genjix> heh i was spamming freenode too before
 453 2011-03-09 02:00:53 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: I am anti-drugs.
 454 2011-03-09 02:00:55 <mizerydearia> there should be no personal restrictions on whatever
 455 2011-03-09 02:01:01 <genjix> one guy was asking about a convenient online payment system
 456 2011-03-09 02:01:09 <genjix> but refused to check out bitcoin
 457 2011-03-09 02:01:11 <mizerydearia> however, I am anti-progressional medicine/drug industry
 458 2011-03-09 02:01:18 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: including government-approved drugs
 459 2011-03-09 02:01:20 <mizerydearia> gah, I forgot the word again...
 460 2011-03-09 02:01:24 <mizerydearia> drugs that do nothing?
 461 2011-03-09 02:01:31 <mizerydearia> e.g. you think it does, but it's fake
 462 2011-03-09 02:01:43 <genjix> placebo
 463 2011-03-09 02:01:45 <mizerydearia> yep
 464 2011-03-09 02:01:45 <Cusipzzz> placebo
 465 2011-03-09 02:01:49 <mizerydearia> good band
 466 2011-03-09 02:01:53 <genjix> haha beat you Cusipzzz !
 467 2011-03-09 02:01:55 Spenvo has joined
 468 2011-03-09 02:01:56 <genjix> :PPP
 469 2011-03-09 02:02:02 <Cusipzzz> genjix: indeed
 470 2011-03-09 02:02:05 <genjix> u suk
 471 2011-03-09 02:02:10 <Cusipzzz> server lag imo
 472 2011-03-09 02:02:13 <mizerydearia> ^_^
 473 2011-03-09 02:02:17 <genjix> suck it up
 474 2011-03-09 02:02:20 <mizerydearia> opinion
 475 2011-03-09 02:02:23 phantomcircuit has joined
 476 2011-03-09 02:02:23 <mizerydearia> not fact
 477 2011-03-09 02:02:59 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: you lie imo
 478 2011-03-09 02:03:20 <luke-jr> genjix was 2 seconds earlier, and your pings are both <2 sec
 479 2011-03-09 02:03:40 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, How can one lie about their opinion?
 480 2011-03-09 02:03:48 <Cusipzzz> ^^
 481 2011-03-09 02:03:50 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: server lag is not a matter of opinion :P
 482 2011-03-09 02:03:54 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, oh?
 483 2011-03-09 02:03:57 <Cusipzzz> server lag is not constant
 484 2011-03-09 02:04:06 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: hmmmmmmm
 485 2011-03-09 02:04:15 <mizerydearia> It is my opinion that the server is a lie
 486 2011-03-09 02:04:24 <mizerydearia> therefore the lag is artificial
 487 2011-03-09 02:04:29 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: gimme an address of urs
 488 2011-03-09 02:04:45 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, 2008 S 87th St, West Allis, WI 53227
 489 2011-03-09 02:04:47 <luke-jr> …
 490 2011-03-09 02:04:54 <luke-jr> bitcoin address n00b
 491 2011-03-09 02:04:56 <genjix> no cake
 492 2011-03-09 02:04:58 <Cusipzzz> lol
 493 2011-03-09 02:05:00 <mizerydearia> ^_^
 494 2011-03-09 02:05:03 <mizerydearia> you didn't specify?
 495 2011-03-09 02:05:06 <mizerydearia> you just said address
 496 2011-03-09 02:05:12 <mizerydearia> it's one of my addresses
 497 2011-03-09 02:05:26 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: fine, I'll send it via nuclear missile
 498 2011-03-09 02:05:29 <mizerydearia> ^_^
 499 2011-03-09 02:05:40 <luke-jr> btw, that address is 3 years old
 500 2011-03-09 02:05:40 <mizerydearia> alternatively, you can send monies to me at witcoin?
 501 2011-03-09 02:05:43 <mizerydearia> no input from me necessary
 502 2011-03-09 02:05:58 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
 503 2011-03-09 02:06:00 <genjix> a creepy strange man is going to appear on your doorstep tomorrow
 504 2011-03-09 02:06:03 <luke-jr> if you want it, you do the work of pasting an address -.-
 505 2011-03-09 02:06:07 <Cusipzzz> lol
 506 2011-03-09 02:06:07 <mizerydearia> actually, it's not my address anymore
 507 2011-03-09 02:06:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112804 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 91 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 15 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77024.78048780
 508 2011-03-09 02:06:17 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: YOU LIED!
 509 2011-03-09 02:06:24 <mizerydearia> that's your opinion ^_^
 510 2011-03-09 02:06:31 <luke-jr> no, you just confessed to it
 511 2011-03-09 02:06:33 <genjix> i remember once i was chatting to an estonian on irc, and i posted a travel pic of me
 512 2011-03-09 02:06:37 javagamer has joined
 513 2011-03-09 02:06:39 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 514 2011-03-09 02:06:42 <mizerydearia> I do not confess.  I am not religi***
 515 2011-03-09 02:06:48 <genjix> and some other guy i dont know, opened a pm and started calling me a faggot
 516 2011-03-09 02:06:54 <genjix> and how he'd fuck me in the ass
 517 2011-03-09 02:06:59 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: two unrelated statements.
 518 2011-03-09 02:07:00 <mizerydearia> woo donkey sex
 519 2011-03-09 02:07:09 <genjix> then started asking for my personal details... weird or what?
 520 2011-03-09 02:07:23 <mizerydearia> genjix, ooh, weirdorwhat.com ?
 521 2011-03-09 02:07:40 <mizerydearia> tis an idea for a site
 522 2011-03-09 02:07:48 <genjix> it was on freenode btw
 523 2011-03-09 02:07:58 <mizerydearia> maybe something like fml
 524 2011-03-09 02:08:37 <genjix> i have an idea for a site but it involves finding somebody in iran first...
 525 2011-03-09 02:08:55 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, While I appreciate the donation type of gesture, I am too lazy to winkey+f12, click, click, ctrl+c, winkey+f11, ctrl+v
 526 2011-03-09 02:09:01 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 527 2011-03-09 02:09:04 <mizerydearia> However, in regards to typing that out, I am not lazy.
 528 2011-03-09 02:09:30 gasteve has joined
 529 2011-03-09 02:10:30 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 530 2011-03-09 02:10:46 phantomcircuit has joined
 531 2011-03-09 02:11:19 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, As a gesture of appreciation for your offer to donate (I think it was an offer?) by asking me to provide a bitcoin address, may I in return off donation to you?
 532 2011-03-09 02:11:21 <genjix> winky winky click click
 533 2011-03-09 02:11:41 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats
 534 2011-03-09 02:12:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112804 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 91 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 15 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77024.78048780
 535 2011-03-09 02:12:09 <mizerydearia> woo gribble is slow
 536 2011-03-09 02:12:18 <mizerydearia> 22 second delay.. see?  server is lagging
 537 2011-03-09 02:12:21 <Cusipzzz> server lag imo
 538 2011-03-09 02:12:22 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calc 480000
 539 2011-03-09 02:12:24 <Cusipzzz> ^^
 540 2011-03-09 02:12:25 <mizerydearia> hehe
 541 2011-03-09 02:12:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 480000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 5 days, 18 hours, 10 minutes, and 13 seconds
 542 2011-03-09 02:12:38 <mizerydearia> ;;ping
 543 2011-03-09 02:12:39 <gribble> pong
 544 2011-03-09 02:12:39 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calcd 78000 480000
 545 2011-03-09 02:12:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 78000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 480000, is 43 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 49 minutes, and 27 seconds
 546 2011-03-09 02:12:44 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: 1KczVqwopWXQdFLe5sNQbpCq7yGSmXx2oo
 547 2011-03-09 02:12:55 <Cusipzzz> seems to be...how i say.. inconsistent
 548 2011-03-09 02:12:59 <mizerydearia> woo
 549 2011-03-09 02:13:08 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calcd 480000 78000
 550 2011-03-09 02:13:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 480000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 78000, is 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 52 minutes, and 12 seconds
 551 2011-03-09 02:14:22 <phantomcircuit> so it strikes me that a lot of the bitcoind code assumes the chain isn't split
 552 2011-03-09 02:14:41 <mizerydearia> it must be a strong chain
 553 2011-03-09 02:14:59 <mizerydearia> or at least bitcoind assumes the chain is strong
 554 2011-03-09 02:15:18 <JunK-Y> the difficulty still gonna increase yay
 555 2011-03-09 02:15:22 TheKid_ has joined
 556 2011-03-09 02:15:31 molecular has joined
 557 2011-03-09 02:15:45 * mizerydearia evaluates "the difficuly still gonna increase yay" in ebonics
 558 2011-03-09 02:15:59 <mizerydearia> "the difficulty still.  gonna increase.  yay!"
 559 2011-03-09 02:16:14 <JunK-Y> eheheh
 560 2011-03-09 02:16:18 TheKid_ is now known as TheKid
 561 2011-03-09 02:16:23 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
 562 2011-03-09 02:16:23 TheKid has joined
 563 2011-03-09 02:16:26 <genjix> i had to write a bio about myself
 564 2011-03-09 02:16:39 <genjix> wrote about smashing the government and authority
 565 2011-03-09 02:16:49 <genjix> they only took the first sentence haha
 566 2011-03-09 02:16:55 <mizerydearia> they?
 567 2011-03-09 02:17:05 <genjix> people i wrote bio for
 568 2011-03-09 02:17:08 <JunK-Y> hopefully, the price per btc will increase too :)
 569 2011-03-09 02:17:18 <molecular> oh, sipa changed his charts
 570 2011-03-09 02:17:19 <genjix> JunK-Y: no no no SINK SINK
 571 2011-03-09 02:17:23 <genjix> SINKKK
 572 2011-03-09 02:17:24 <mizerydearia> battleship?
 573 2011-03-09 02:18:08 <molecular> sipa: yeah, that's better: a 1 day window
 574 2011-03-09 02:18:10 <mizerydearia> molecular: those coordinates are invalid, please try again
 575 2011-03-09 02:18:22 <molecular> a7
 576 2011-03-09 02:18:26 mizerydearia has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 577 2011-03-09 02:18:55 <molecular> seems I killed his command-ship ;)
 578 2011-03-09 02:19:02 <genjix> nice one
 579 2011-03-09 02:19:08 <molecular> thx
 580 2011-03-09 02:19:30 <javagamer> I have an idea for what could hopefully be a useful bitcoin related site, but I want to just check that it makes sense.  Essentially it would let you semi-anonymously transfer BTC (in case somone knows one of your addresses) by allowing people to transfer a set amount, say 10BTC and only sending it a set time in the day along with several identical amounts, so it goes from say 50 address -> 1
 581 2011-03-09 02:19:32 <javagamer> address -> 50 new addresses.  Does this make any sense?
 582 2011-03-09 02:20:20 <molecular> not really (make sense).. what are you trying to achieve?
 583 2011-03-09 02:20:28 <genjix> javagamer: you mean a mixing site for laundering money?
 584 2011-03-09 02:20:36 <genjix> there's been some talk on this actually
 585 2011-03-09 02:20:38 <javagamer> genjix: Yeah, I think so
 586 2011-03-09 02:21:00 <genjix> i hope it gets done.
 587 2011-03-09 02:21:14 <javagamer> I figure I could hack something together within a week, just want to be sure I wouldn't be wasting the effort
 588 2011-03-09 02:21:17 <TheKid> http://bitcoinlaundry.com/
 589 2011-03-09 02:21:34 <genjix> cool
 590 2011-03-09 02:21:40 <genjix> so it *has* been done.
 591 2011-03-09 02:21:45 <javagamer> Wow, looks like someone beat me to it :/
 592 2011-03-09 02:21:49 <JFK911> hey cool this is the last missing piece before i put up bitcoinmarijuanasales.com
 593 2011-03-09 02:21:59 <JFK911> i can hide the profits!!
 594 2011-03-09 02:22:07 mizerydearia has joined
 595 2011-03-09 02:22:34 <genjix> b6
 596 2011-03-09 02:22:43 mizerydearia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 597 2011-03-09 02:22:49 <genjix> LOL
 598 2011-03-09 02:22:55 <molecular> JFK911, huh? it's done: silkroad: silhttp://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3984.0;topicseen
 599 2011-03-09 02:23:02 <genjix> molecular: ^
 600 2011-03-09 02:23:14 mizerydearia has joined
 601 2011-03-09 02:23:24 <genjix> c9
 602 2011-03-09 02:23:41 <genjix> e2
 603 2011-03-09 02:23:49 <molecular> 4649
 604 2011-03-09 02:24:08 <doublec> javagamer: there was also https://bitlaundry.appspot.com/
 605 2011-03-09 02:24:14 <doublec> but I don't think it's operational anymore
 606 2011-03-09 02:24:20 <mizerydearia> uhhh
 607 2011-03-09 02:24:22 <mizerydearia> fail
 608 2011-03-09 02:24:24 <mizerydearia> yeah, that's old
 609 2011-03-09 02:24:56 <molecular> hey, you're back mizerydearia, I destroyed your command ship
 610 2011-03-09 02:25:19 <mizerydearia> i noticed, and it seems to have affected me too
 611 2011-03-09 02:25:36 <molecular> it should've
 612 2011-03-09 02:25:39 <mizerydearia> or my connection
 613 2011-03-09 02:25:55 <molecular> )
 614 2011-03-09 02:26:25 <mizerydearia> yeah, when yuo first typed the coordinates, it triggered me to /quit and I wtfed....  and then genjix found exploitation opportunity and took advantage of it as I reconnected.
 615 2011-03-09 02:26:48 <molecular> ah
 616 2011-03-09 02:26:51 <mizerydearia> however, I have sinve evolved to not type /quit and therefore it seems it's patched now
 617 2011-03-09 02:26:55 <mizerydearia> since*
 618 2011-03-09 02:27:07 <molecular> good
 619 2011-03-09 02:28:04 <mizerydearia> it's lesson for me to make sure my operation is secure or bug free before pushing updates
 620 2011-03-09 02:28:25 <javagamer> Looking through the thread on the forum, it doesn't seem bitcoinlaundry really offers much privacy atm, plus 1% is a bit high, I was thinking of having it something more like 0.1%
 621 2011-03-09 02:28:41 <mizerydearia> javagamer, wow, you must have good vision if you can look through a thread
 622 2011-03-09 02:29:02 <javagamer> Hmmm?
 623 2011-03-09 02:29:10 <javagamer> Oh, heh
 624 2011-03-09 02:29:44 <mizerydearia> hmm, I wonder why bitcoinlaundry charges at all
 625 2011-03-09 02:29:51 <doublec> to make money
 626 2011-03-09 02:29:52 <mizerydearia> why not simply relay the funds
 627 2011-03-09 02:29:58 <mizerydearia> but it is such a simple task
 628 2011-03-09 02:30:01 <mizerydearia> 1% is a LOT
 629 2011-03-09 02:30:09 <mizerydearia> for such simple ability
 630 2011-03-09 02:30:30 <molecular> mizerydearia has been drinking from the silkroad faucet ?
 631 2011-03-09 02:30:36 <doublec> I'd make it super low just to discourage spam and encourage usage
 632 2011-03-09 02:30:41 <knotwork> depends how much money oyu can rake in before going to the big house for laundering mony
 633 2011-03-09 02:30:46 <genjix> javagamer: you should randomise the amounts +/- but generally charge a little less for profit
 634 2011-03-09 02:30:53 <doublec> laundering virtual bits you mean
 635 2011-03-09 02:31:00 <genjix> so there's a mismatch between amounts sent
 636 2011-03-09 02:31:26 <mizerydearia> "money laundering" phrase is only established to instill fear in people
 637 2011-03-09 02:31:26 <genjix> javagamer: also have the recipient have to specify several addresses for each 10 btc
 638 2011-03-09 02:31:56 <mizerydearia> e.g. if you accept to be kidnaped, raped, tortured, wtfever because you are 'caught'  money laundering, then you are naive.
 639 2011-03-09 02:32:00 <mizerydearia> kidnapped
 640 2011-03-09 02:32:00 <molecular> genjix, good idea
 641 2011-03-09 02:32:17 <javagamer> genjix: I was thinking just only allow certain amounts so one couldn't tell them apart
 642 2011-03-09 02:32:21 <[Tycho]> "I'd make it super low just to discourage spam" - how this would affect spam ?
 643 2011-03-09 02:32:38 <javagamer> As-in, only allow say powers of 10
 644 2011-03-09 02:32:49 <genjix> javagamer: ok well still do the multiple end addresses thing
 645 2011-03-09 02:33:01 <doublec> [Tycho]: because someone spamming the service with trades back and forth between addresses they'd run out of money with a small fee
 646 2011-03-09 02:33:15 <mizerydearia> additionally, another question regarding bitcoinlaundry.com is: what if you send 0.01 bitcoins to an address?  how much does the site take?
 647 2011-03-09 02:33:23 <mizerydearia> what if you send 0.01 bitcoins 10000 times?
 648 2011-03-09 02:33:33 <javagamer> genjix: That sounds like a good idea
 649 2011-03-09 02:33:36 <molecular> genjix, you really wnat the multi-outpoint-distribution-thing, ay?
 650 2011-03-09 02:33:46 <molecular> me too
 651 2011-03-09 02:33:51 <genjix> yes definitely
 652 2011-03-09 02:33:51 <luke-jr> molecular: that's already written and in a pull request
 653 2011-03-09 02:33:56 <genjix> was planning it myself
 654 2011-03-09 02:34:06 <genjix> but glad javagamer is taking it on too :p
 655 2011-03-09 02:34:06 <molecular> luke-jr, link?
 656 2011-03-09 02:34:17 <javagamer> Also, is 0.1% too high? I'd like to be able to make a few BTC, but I could probably go lower
 657 2011-03-09 02:34:25 <genjix> no it's fine
 658 2011-03-09 02:34:30 <molecular> yes, fine
 659 2011-03-09 02:34:31 <genjix> i think you should charge 1%
 660 2011-03-09 02:34:32 <luke-jr> molecular: github somewhere
 661 2011-03-09 02:34:39 <genjix> because your volume will be very low
 662 2011-03-09 02:34:43 <molecular> luke-jr, hehe, figured
 663 2011-03-09 02:34:48 <genjix> it's more proof of concept
 664 2011-03-09 02:34:53 <Cusipzzz> if you charge a variable fee, it will help launder :)
 665 2011-03-09 02:35:32 <mizerydearia> Actually, I think more than one site should establish a kind of "money laundering" technique
 666 2011-03-09 02:35:40 <mizerydearia> that way if one site is taken down, then there are still others
 667 2011-03-09 02:35:44 <genjix> no
 668 2011-03-09 02:35:46 <mizerydearia> no?
 669 2011-03-09 02:35:48 <mizerydearia> hmm
 670 2011-03-09 02:35:52 <genjix> it's better to have 1 site monopolising this
 671 2011-03-09 02:35:58 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/106
 672 2011-03-09 02:35:58 <mizerydearia> mm
 673 2011-03-09 02:36:02 <genjix> it obfuscates the transactions better
 674 2011-03-09 02:36:03 <Kiba> w h y ?
 675 2011-03-09 02:36:16 <doublec> the site needs a lot of transactions to actually work
 676 2011-03-09 02:36:21 <mizerydearia> Kiba, what have you?
 677 2011-03-09 02:36:27 <doublec> unless they back it using mtgox or mybitcoin.com
 678 2011-03-09 02:36:28 <knotwork> washingmachine@home code would be better idea maybe
 679 2011-03-09 02:36:35 <Kiba> i  a m  t o o  s l o w  a p p e r a n t l y
 680 2011-03-09 02:36:38 <doublec> they could send to an account there and then send transactions out from that
 681 2011-03-09 02:36:47 <doublec> so the coins are mixed with all of the ones in mtgox/mybitcoin
 682 2011-03-09 02:36:54 <knotwork> distributed P2P laundry system
 683 2011-03-09 02:37:20 <genjix> i read about a drug dealer laundering money through comic books recently
 684 2011-03-09 02:37:35 <genjix> so....about time someone did some selling to them.
 685 2011-03-09 02:37:35 <luke-jr> molecular: that link was for you btw
 686 2011-03-09 02:37:50 <knotwork> the superheroes turned him in? ;) (the comix guy)
 687 2011-03-09 02:37:51 <molecular> doublec, there are not really coins, are there. bitcoin is just an transaction-accounting-system backed by proof-of-work
 688 2011-03-09 02:37:55 <mizerydearia> javagamer, maybe make the amount selectable?  e.g. 1% as default, but allow user to select if they would like less or more?
 689 2011-03-09 02:38:06 <luke-jr> molecular: there are indeed coins
 690 2011-03-09 02:38:22 <molecular> luke-jr, thx, rcvd link
 691 2011-03-09 02:38:39 <luke-jr> if someone sends you 5 BTC, you have a single 5 BTC coin there
 692 2011-03-09 02:39:02 <luke-jr> if you then want to send me 3 BTC, you have to take that 5 BTC and split it into two coins: 3 BTC and 2 BTC
 693 2011-03-09 02:39:12 <luke-jr> you send the 2 BTC coin back to yourself, and the 3 BTC coin to me
 694 2011-03-09 02:39:36 <genjix> if we got online cash flowing and common place... this will revolutionise linux
 695 2011-03-09 02:39:40 <doublec> molecular's point (I think) is there is no 'coin' structure. The actual values are calculated using the transaction-accounting system
 696 2011-03-09 02:39:51 <mizerydearia> genjix, revolutionize linux?
 697 2011-03-09 02:40:54 <javagamer> I'm thinking .1% default so fewer people change it, but have an option for 0.01% or maybe even lower
 698 2011-03-09 02:41:12 <javagamer> Just worried no one would leave it on if I made it optional
 699 2011-03-09 02:41:35 <javagamer> I think I'll open-source my code though and just hope my site stays the most popular
 700 2011-03-09 02:41:36 <doublec> have a .1% fee with a 0.1 minimum fee
 701 2011-03-09 02:41:43 <doublec> or something like that
 702 2011-03-09 02:41:45 <genjix> mizerydearia: allow ideologically driven hackers to do what they love and value?
 703 2011-03-09 02:41:47 <molecular> ah, luke-jr, I see. the rpc-interface to send to mulitple addresses. when I said "genjix, you really wnat the multi-outpoint-distribution-thing, ay?", I was referring to genjix' idea of the laundry service sending your money back distributed among mulitple adresses
 704 2011-03-09 02:41:59 <javagamer> That should give people peace of mind if they can see its insides
 705 2011-03-09 02:42:17 <mizerydearia> genjix, mm, nice way to phrase it
 706 2011-03-09 02:42:37 <genjix> money is a game changer... even the smallest amounts.
 707 2011-03-09 02:42:47 <mizerydearia> yar, hence witcoin ^_^
 708 2011-03-09 02:44:25 <molecular> luke-jr, "<luke-jr> if someone sends you 5 BTC, you have a single 5 BTC coin there" <- that's not true... you have a key that enables you to spend these 5 BTC.. that same key might enable you to spend other BTC received from other transactions... as doublec pointed out, I'm trying to say that there is no "coin object" or stuff like that. bitcoin is just an accounting system like the ones we despise of.. just has different
 709 2011-03-09 02:44:25 <molecular> (null)
 710 2011-03-09 02:45:09 <molecular> ups, did I exceed some irc message size limit?
 711 2011-03-09 02:45:19 <molecular> ..properties
 712 2011-03-09 02:45:24 <javagamer> Is there one php API that's the best, or should I take a look at them all?
 713 2011-03-09 02:45:48 lolcat has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 714 2011-03-09 02:45:59 <doublec> good luck look at them 'all'. Might take a while!
 715 2011-03-09 02:46:16 <doublec> (or did you mean php bitcoin api?)
 716 2011-03-09 02:46:23 <mizerydearia> heh
 717 2011-03-09 02:46:49 <molecular> kinda like: good luck mining with cpu..
 718 2011-03-09 02:47:29 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
 719 2011-03-09 02:47:30 <mizerydearia> I'm still using an abacus to calculate a hash
 720 2011-03-09 02:47:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112811 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 84 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 32 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76995.78279342
 721 2011-03-09 02:48:54 <javagamer> Woops, definitely meant PHP Bitcoin API, don't think I'll need anything more than that
 722 2011-03-09 02:49:51 <molecular> good think MM left, otherwise we'd have more than 77000 difficulty in 8 hours
 723 2011-03-09 02:50:33 <molecular> why did he leave, though... was mining causing harm to his botnet?
 724 2011-03-09 02:52:05 <genjix> javagamer: theres only 1 worth using
 725 2011-03-09 02:52:10 <genjix> javagamer: see the wiki
 726 2011-03-09 02:52:44 <javagamer> genjix: Alright, thanks
 727 2011-03-09 02:54:25 openedu has joined
 728 2011-03-09 02:54:32 <openedu> hai
 729 2011-03-09 02:55:08 <openedu> So I'm a noob to bitcoin and I have a few questions...hopefully somebody can answer them...
 730 2011-03-09 02:55:10 <molecular> hey openedu
 731 2011-03-09 02:55:17 <molecular> all of them
 732 2011-03-09 02:55:33 <openedu> alright, let me think about how to phrase this
 733 2011-03-09 02:55:47 <molecular> just blurt it out
 734 2011-03-09 02:56:41 <openedu> Freenet, is basically a network that everybody contribute a little piece to, so say you allocate 10 gigs to freenet, that in turn gives the network 10 gigs to hold information in
 735 2011-03-09 02:56:49 <openedu> is bitcoin similar?
 736 2011-03-09 02:57:06 <[Tycho]> openedu, not really. Everyone in bitcoin holds all the data.
 737 2011-03-09 02:57:18 <molecular> there is an effort to replace the traditional p2p networking component of bitcoin by freenet
 738 2011-03-09 02:57:29 <molecular> ask xelister about that
 739 2011-03-09 02:57:35 <[Tycho]> If there is 4000 bitcoin nodes, then there is 4000 copies of bitcoin chain.
 740 2011-03-09 02:57:41 <molecular> yes
 741 2011-03-09 02:58:06 <openedu> yes but it seems as if all this CPU "energy" in being concentrated somewhere
 742 2011-03-09 02:58:06 <molecular> openedu, bitcoin is not about publishing anonymity like freent
 743 2011-03-09 02:58:37 <molecular> openedu, the goal of the p2p-part of bitcoin is basically "broadcast"
 744 2011-03-09 02:58:42 sgornick has joined
 745 2011-03-09 02:58:55 <[Tycho]> openedu, all the GPU energy is completely independent.
 746 2011-03-09 02:59:28 <genjix> Sirius: the forums are fucked up
 747 2011-03-09 03:00:14 <molecular> openedu, the anonymity of transaction is not enforced by some anonymity of network node
 748 2011-03-09 03:00:33 <openedu> SO, when I download all the blocks, and I am connecting to various nodes, what is the point of all this besides generating "bitcoins" to trade for services?
 749 2011-03-09 03:01:10 <[Tycho]> openedu, the point of connecting is to exchange information about transactions.
 750 2011-03-09 03:01:15 <molecular> openedu, the idea is to establish the block-chain
 751 2011-03-09 03:01:25 <luke-jr> openedu: buying and earning bitcoins
 752 2011-03-09 03:01:29 <molecular> openedu, encoded within-which are the transactions
 753 2011-03-09 03:01:38 <openedu> the comparison to freenet wasnt a concern about anonymity, it just seemed as if it was similar in the sense of storing information
 754 2011-03-09 03:02:13 <molecular> " what is the point of all this besides generating "bitcoins" to trade for services?" <- that's most of the bitcoin idea: have money to trade and service ;)
 755 2011-03-09 03:02:16 <openedu> like, everybody contributes a little bit, as you use eachothers nodes to gain power
 756 2011-03-09 03:02:17 <luke-jr> openedu: bitcoin stores a history of coins
 757 2011-03-09 03:02:35 <luke-jr> openedu: CPU/GPU time used by mining is useless
 758 2011-03-09 03:02:46 <luke-jr> mining is not the point of bitcoin at all
 759 2011-03-09 03:03:12 <molecular> openedu, no, we dont use each-other to gain power. bitcoin power comes from people using it as money.
 760 2011-03-09 03:04:07 <openedu> hhhmmmm, I'll just keep reading, it will eventually become clear.  Like I said, I'm a noob *O*
 761 2011-03-09 03:04:22 <luke-jr> openedu: mining is bruteforcing SHA-256. nothing more.
 762 2011-03-09 03:04:30 <molecular> we're offering digital gold
 763 2011-03-09 03:04:30 <molecular> the purpose is a world more free
 764 2011-03-09 03:04:45 <luke-jr> molecular: the purpose depends on who you talk to.
 765 2011-03-09 03:05:02 <openedu> and i totally dig that aspect mol
 766 2011-03-09 03:05:04 <luke-jr> few people care about "a world more free"
 767 2011-03-09 03:05:05 <molecular> openedu, sleep over it and talk to people about it... it will be more clear to you as you can bear soon ;)
 768 2011-03-09 03:05:21 <molecular> luke-jr, I think the amount of
 769 2011-03-09 03:05:29 <molecular> people caring about a world
 770 2011-03-09 03:05:33 <molecular> "more free"
 771 2011-03-09 03:05:38 <molecular> is higher here than elsewhere
 772 2011-03-09 03:05:43 <luke-jr> yes, probably
 773 2011-03-09 03:05:51 <luke-jr> but not enough to make it a sole reason to adopt bitcoin
 774 2011-03-09 03:05:58 * molecular is <enter/>-happy today
 775 2011-03-09 03:06:09 <luke-jr> I, for one, am pretty satisfied with silver and gold
 776 2011-03-09 03:06:10 <Cusipzzz> freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
 777 2011-03-09 03:06:14 <openedu> so what happens when the amount of users exceeds the amount of avail. bitcoins?
 778 2011-03-09 03:06:16 <luke-jr> from a freedom perspective
 779 2011-03-09 03:06:25 <molecular> which reasons exist to "adopt" bitcoin?
 780 2011-03-09 03:06:30 <luke-jr> openedu: never will
 781 2011-03-09 03:06:41 <luke-jr> molecular: for me, Tonal support
 782 2011-03-09 03:06:47 <molecular> silver and gold cannot be used to do business online
 783 2011-03-09 03:07:38 <openedu> Along the lines of business....How will a company benefit from accepting bitcoins as currency?
 784 2011-03-09 03:08:01 <openedu> besides being able to trade for services
 785 2011-03-09 03:08:03 <luke-jr> openedu: there are over 2 quadrillion raw bitcoin units
 786 2011-03-09 03:08:25 <luke-jr> .5 quadrillion, today
 787 2011-03-09 03:08:51 <genjix> i'd rather have real money than gold :p
 788 2011-03-09 03:09:01 <luke-jr> 72,463 for every human alive
 789 2011-03-09 03:09:02 <openedu> i wouldnt
 790 2011-03-09 03:09:06 <openedu> gold goes up in value
 791 2011-03-09 03:09:08 <luke-jr> genjix: gold is real money
 792 2011-03-09 03:09:16 <luke-jr> more real than bitcoins, even
 793 2011-03-09 03:09:20 <Kiba> so that is 72463 satoshi
 794 2011-03-09 03:09:21 <genjix> i mean fiat or whatever it is
 795 2011-03-09 03:09:35 <luke-jr> Kiba: are you serious about calling raw bitcoins "satoshi"? :P
 796 2011-03-09 03:09:48 <Kiba> why not?
 797 2011-03-09 03:09:54 <luke-jr> >_<
 798 2011-03-09 03:10:00 <luke-jr> I can't think of a reason why not
 799 2011-03-09 03:10:04 <luke-jr> just wondering if you're serious
 800 2011-03-09 03:10:12 <Kiba> yes, I am serious!
 801 2011-03-09 03:10:17 <openedu> satoshi is a little too weaboo
 802 2011-03-09 03:10:24 <EvanR_> shi for short
 803 2011-03-09 03:10:36 <luke-jr> Kiba: … I'll let you add it to the Units wiki page then >.>
 804 2011-03-09 03:10:50 <Kiba> luke-jr: others like the idea too
 805 2011-03-09 03:11:01 <luke-jr> Kiba: go ahead and add it then. I'm not going to :P
 806 2011-03-09 03:11:05 Maccer has joined
 807 2011-03-09 03:11:26 * Kiba shrugs
 808 2011-03-09 03:11:28 <Maccer> Well done fellow agorists/anti-statists: http://silkroadmarket.org, well done. And yes, very relevant.
 809 2011-03-09 03:13:06 <openedu> I saw a pot delivery service on Tor a few years back..thought it was an awesome idea, and it seemed totally legit
 810 2011-03-09 03:13:14 <Kiba> I am not into the whole pot and drugs thing
 811 2011-03-09 03:13:28 <luke-jr> Maccer: isn't it a reasonable assumption that the person who owns that domain runs it?
 812 2011-03-09 03:13:29 <openedu> wonder if they're still around, I haven't been on Tor in awhile
 813 2011-03-09 03:14:14 <Diablo-D3> 22:04:56,322 INFO  [STDOUT] start
 814 2011-03-09 03:14:14 <Diablo-D3> 22:04:56,322 INFO  [STDOUT] finish
 815 2011-03-09 03:14:18 <Diablo-D3> how much time passed?
 816 2011-03-09 03:14:35 <Diablo-D3> less than 1/100th of a second?
 817 2011-03-09 03:15:04 <Diablo-D3> I think Im reading this right
 818 2011-03-09 03:15:06 <Maccer> luke-jr, bah, I'm having trouble remembering legal jargon... but uhh, reasonable doubt?
 819 2011-03-09 03:15:06 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 820 2011-03-09 03:15:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112816 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 79 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77016.49320374
 821 2011-03-09 03:15:32 <Maccer> I'm just curious how many people on #bitcoin-dev are agorists/anti-statists/anarchists, I've talked to a lot on here.
 822 2011-03-09 03:15:34 <luke-jr> Maccer: that assumes they don't find more evidence when they investigate you
 823 2011-03-09 03:15:53 <luke-jr> Maccer: whois silkroadmarket.org is no doubt enough for a search warrant
 824 2011-03-09 03:16:02 <Maccer> Ehh, oh well, at least I'm not running the business. :)
 825 2011-03-09 03:16:20 * mizerydearia wonders if along with silkroadmarket.org there will exist silkroadwars.org (e.g. a game)
 826 2011-03-09 03:16:25 <luke-jr> oh well, I hope they get shutdown ☺
 827 2011-03-09 03:16:38 <openedu> Maccer: unless it's a honeypot op
 828 2011-03-09 03:16:42 <Maccer> Hey... who's side are you on luke-jr? D:
 829 2011-03-09 03:16:57 <Maccer> "Richard Page" owns about 55 other domains
 830 2011-03-09 03:17:12 <luke-jr> Maccer: in this case, the State.
 831 2011-03-09 03:17:19 <Maccer> Has his address on it, but I think it might be fake.
 832 2011-03-09 03:18:00 <Maccer> luke-jr: THE STATE? HERESY!
 833 2011-03-09 03:18:12 <luke-jr> Maccer: prove it
 834 2011-03-09 03:18:46 <Maccer> I have a feeling this guy doesn't know what he's doing.
 835 2011-03-09 03:18:55 <luke-jr> breaking the law, obviously
 836 2011-03-09 03:19:47 <EvanR_> Maccer: luke-jr is on the side of good
 837 2011-03-09 03:20:26 <Maccer> http://tinyurl.com/thestateisillegitimate
 838 2011-03-09 03:20:31 <Maccer> ^ registrant's address
 839 2011-03-09 03:20:49 <luke-jr> Maccer: now THAT URI's text is heresy
 840 2011-03-09 03:21:00 <Maccer> *whistles*
 841 2011-03-09 03:21:24 <EvanR_> the state is legitimate? in north korea?
 842 2011-03-09 03:21:53 <Maccer> Of course! They signed the social contract, EvanR_!
 843 2011-03-09 03:23:27 <EvanR_> contracts rely on law
 844 2011-03-09 03:23:34 <EvanR_> were not even there yet
 845 2011-03-09 03:24:07 <Maccer> But... but the majority agreed on it!
 846 2011-03-09 03:24:14 <luke-jr> States are by definition legitimate.
 847 2011-03-09 03:24:43 <Netsniper> what is a state?
 848 2011-03-09 03:24:45 <luke-jr> except Israel
 849 2011-03-09 03:25:14 <Maccer> States may consider themselves legitimate, but the arbitrary land claim is not. :P
 850 2011-03-09 03:25:16 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, so, does that mean you condone use of initiation of force and violence to stop someone from selling items such as drugs?
 851 2011-03-09 03:25:21 <Maccer> *breaks character*
 852 2011-03-09 03:25:52 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: maybe
 853 2011-03-09 03:26:24 <EvanR_> lol luke-jr
 854 2011-03-09 03:26:24 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, Do you agree that every single human existence regardless of which country, island, or region they live in must not consume drugs such as cocaine?
 855 2011-03-09 03:26:38 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: you would have to consult a social theologian on that one
 856 2011-03-09 03:26:47 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: no
 857 2011-03-09 03:26:48 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, What is your stance?
 858 2011-03-09 03:26:52 <Maccer> I think he's just fooling around, lol.
 859 2011-03-09 03:27:06 <EvanR_> youd think
 860 2011-03-09 03:27:08 <luke-jr> at least not as far as States are concerned
 861 2011-03-09 03:27:13 <mizerydearia> luke-jr, Okay, so it is okay for at least one human existence to consume cocaine?
 862 2011-03-09 03:27:34 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: I don't know. But if you're outside the jurisdiction of StateX, then StateX has no authority to forbid it
 863 2011-03-09 03:27:54 <Maccer> I used to be a Stefbot Voluntaryist, but I kind of lost the moral strings attached to anti-statism.
 864 2011-03-09 03:28:01 <luke-jr> if the local jusisdiction neglects to forbid it, it falls back on natural law
 865 2011-03-09 03:28:13 <Maccer> Kind of... my early stages from libertarianism to anti-statism I guess.
 866 2011-03-09 03:28:48 <EvanR_> natural law cant really apply to a single person alone on earth
 867 2011-03-09 03:28:57 <EvanR_> what he does is monumentally irrelevant
 868 2011-03-09 03:29:41 <EvanR_> single people alone in the universe and a world full of people who do things they way we want them to are both useless scenarios for ethics and politics
 869 2011-03-09 03:30:45 <mizerydearia> how about married people? ^_^
 870 2011-03-09 03:31:33 mmarker has joined
 871 2011-03-09 03:31:34 mmarker has quit (Changing host)
 872 2011-03-09 03:31:34 mmarker has joined
 873 2011-03-09 03:32:23 <EvanR_> if one of the married people religious
 874 2011-03-09 03:32:37 <EvanR_> if one of the married people is a serial killer
 875 2011-03-09 03:32:47 <EvanR_> then we have somewhere to go
 876 2011-03-09 03:33:54 <mizerydearia> home?
 877 2011-03-09 03:34:00 <mizerydearia> back to school?
 878 2011-03-09 03:34:25 <mizerydearia> bananas?
 879 2011-03-09 03:34:25 <EvanR_> with a dialectic or something ;)
 880 2011-03-09 03:34:30 openedu has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 881 2011-03-09 03:35:09 <Maccer> Ahh, #bitcoin-dev feels like home.
 882 2011-03-09 03:35:18 <mizerydearia> there's no place like hoem
 883 2011-03-09 03:35:41 <EvanR_> im not comfortable with the logging
 884 2011-03-09 03:35:53 <Maccer> There's no place like #bitcoin-dev... and... me neither.
 885 2011-03-09 03:36:07 <mizerydearia> join #bitcoin-discussion then
 886 2011-03-09 03:36:09 <luke-jr> EvanR_: I am logging you
 887 2011-03-09 03:36:27 <EvanR_> so is nanotube, but id rather that than a webpage
 888 2011-03-09 03:42:03 <mizerydearia> heh, it was fairly dead in discussion channel until a few minutes ago.  Now it is dead in here.
 889 2011-03-09 03:42:20 <Maccer> Actually... it just started. :P
 890 2011-03-09 03:42:34 <mizerydearia> hmm?
 891 2011-03-09 03:42:53 <mizerydearia> ~6 minutes ago
 892 2011-03-09 03:43:01 <Maccer> In #bitcoin-discussion
 893 2011-03-09 03:43:09 <mizerydearia> yes, six minutes ago
 894 2011-03-09 03:44:46 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 895 2011-03-09 03:45:44 <genjix> github's down
 896 2011-03-09 03:46:13 <mizerydearia> aww
 897 2011-03-09 03:46:29 <mizerydearia> it could be that you found a page that took too long to render
 898 2011-03-09 03:47:05 <mizerydearia> mysql offline
 899 2011-03-09 03:47:17 <luke-jr> genjix: good
 900 2011-03-09 03:47:22 <luke-jr> genjix: Gitorious, remember?
 901 2011-03-09 03:47:32 <mizerydearia> well
 902 2011-03-09 03:47:33 <genjix> i wanted to look at the tickets
 903 2011-03-09 03:47:48 <mizerydearia> github got knocked down, but it'll get up again... you'll never be able to keep it down
 904 2011-03-09 03:48:21 <genjix> it would be nicer if gitorious was used.
 905 2011-03-09 03:48:34 <mizerydearia> suggest to gavin?
 906 2011-03-09 03:49:30 <genjix> they know the arguments already
 907 2011-03-09 03:50:06 <mizerydearia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Github indicates that github is still online
 908 2011-03-09 03:50:26 keystroke has quit ()
 909 2011-03-09 03:50:36 bajin has joined
 910 2011-03-09 03:52:25 Necr0s has joined
 911 2011-03-09 03:53:32 <nanotube> genjix: no issue tracker on gitorious, iirc.
 912 2011-03-09 03:53:37 <nanotube> genjix: that's a big downer.
 913 2011-03-09 03:54:05 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4313.0
 914 2011-03-09 03:54:08 <jgarzik> [PATCH] DNS seeding of P2P node addresses
 915 2011-03-09 03:55:42 <Lachesis> jgarzik, is there any good security reason to require miner auth for getwork() ?
 916 2011-03-09 03:56:11 <jgarzik> Lachesis: no, but there is a need to associate returned getwork unit with a user account
 917 2011-03-09 03:56:15 <Lachesis> yeah yeah
 918 2011-03-09 03:56:35 <Lachesis> but is there any danger to people submitting work under your name?
 919 2011-03-09 03:57:03 <Lachesis> i.e. do i really need a miner password field in my database?
 920 2011-03-09 03:57:09 <jgarzik> Lachesis: I could call myself 'slush' and then start a DoS.  So, impersonation risk.
 921 2011-03-09 03:57:20 <Lachesis> true
 922 2011-03-09 03:57:38 <genjix> nanotube: that is... didn't know that. BTW is there a way to assign myself tickets?
 923 2011-03-09 03:58:05 bajin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 924 2011-03-09 03:58:31 <Lachesis> jgarzik, ty
 925 2011-03-09 03:59:04 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
 926 2011-03-09 03:59:28 gasteve has joined
 927 2011-03-09 04:04:29 <sgornick> "A release candidate of CUDA Toolkit 4.0 will be available free of charge beginning March 4, 2011, by enrolling in the CUDA Registered Developer Program." http://drdobbs.com/high-performance-computing/229219474
 928 2011-03-09 04:08:45 <genjix> .|..
 929 2011-03-09 04:08:49 <genjix> |  |
 930 2011-03-09 04:14:58 <mmarker> sgornick: ?
 931 2011-03-09 04:15:50 <nanotube> genjix: dunno much about the github issue tracker. :)
 932 2011-03-09 04:16:10 <sgornick> mmarker: what's up?
 933 2011-03-09 04:16:26 <mmarker> The CUDA Toolkit?
 934 2011-03-09 04:17:51 <sgornick> Last weeks news but I Just now saw it, (in Dr. Dobbs)... so posted it here in case anyone cared.
 935 2011-03-09 04:17:59 <genjix> google is free of charge now
 936 2011-03-09 04:18:19 agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 937 2011-03-09 04:18:36 agorist has joined
 938 2011-03-09 04:18:53 <mizerydearia> github is back online!
 939 2011-03-09 04:20:56 <mmarker> hmm, isn't nvidia hardware faster at floating point than integer?
 940 2011-03-09 04:21:52 <validus> guys, best crossfire mobo
 941 2011-03-09 04:22:03 <validus> im worried of the cards covering up my sata ports on this mobo
 942 2011-03-09 04:22:24 <sgornick> mmarker: How much time do you have?   ... http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=745
 943 2011-03-09 04:23:10 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 944 2011-03-09 04:24:16 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 945 2011-03-09 04:25:34 <Diablo-D3> oh wee
 946 2011-03-09 04:25:38 <Diablo-D3> guess what I just noticed.
 947 2011-03-09 04:25:48 <Diablo-D3> my pool software works
 948 2011-03-09 04:27:25 <Diablo-D3> takes about 50 lines to proxy json back and forth.
 949 2011-03-09 04:29:31 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 950 2011-03-09 04:37:22 molecular has joined
 951 2011-03-09 04:41:34 ball has joined
 952 2011-03-09 04:42:34 sethsethseth__ has joined
 953 2011-03-09 04:44:55 mmarker has quit (Quit: mmarker)
 954 2011-03-09 04:48:19 holoport has joined
 955 2011-03-09 04:48:20 <holoport> sup
 956 2011-03-09 04:48:28 holoport is now known as farzong
 957 2011-03-09 04:48:30 <farzong> haha!
 958 2011-03-09 04:48:39 <farzong> my friend wants to buy some coin.. who's the best exchanger
 959 2011-03-09 04:50:18 <Diablo-D3> probably mtgox
 960 2011-03-09 04:50:24 <farzong> ok cool
 961 2011-03-09 04:50:28 slush has joined
 962 2011-03-09 04:51:19 <doublec> or coinpal
 963 2011-03-09 04:53:33 <farzong> http://mtgox.com/trade/history
 964 2011-03-09 04:53:46 <luke-jr> farzong: mtgox is a pain
 965 2011-03-09 04:53:51 <farzong> interesting.. why the dip in prices in mid feb
 966 2011-03-09 04:53:52 <luke-jr> farzong: sell him some yourself?
 967 2011-03-09 04:53:53 <farzong> it is?
 968 2011-03-09 04:54:04 <farzong> no way man.. im keeping them!
 969 2011-03-09 04:54:19 <luke-jr> farzong: hoarder
 970 2011-03-09 04:54:23 <farzong> haha
 971 2011-03-09 04:54:31 <farzong> yes my 150 btc hoard!
 972 2011-03-09 04:54:52 <Aciid> AAAAAAAAAAAA+++++ for coinpal
 973 2011-03-09 04:55:04 <Aciid> would buy again
 974 2011-03-09 04:55:43 <farzong> coinpal is cool ... but 5.5% tx fee vs 0.65% for goc
 975 2011-03-09 04:55:44 <farzong> x
 976 2011-03-09 04:55:59 <luke-jr> farzong: but mtgox doesn't accept PayPal
 977 2011-03-09 04:56:17 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 978 2011-03-09 04:56:29 <farzong> i think they do
 979 2011-03-09 04:56:29 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 980 2011-03-09 04:56:34 <luke-jr> farzong: they don't.
 981 2011-03-09 04:56:44 <Aciid> farzong: trade from EURO account
 982 2011-03-09 04:56:50 <gasteve> farzong: I sell people some and buy back on OTC
 983 2011-03-09 04:56:53 <Aciid> a hole in there
 984 2011-03-09 04:57:10 <x6763> farzong: mtgox's paypal account was frozen a while back...mtgox doesn't use paypal anymore
 985 2011-03-09 04:57:20 <Aciid> I lost 7e -> 0.8€ -> 10BTC
 986 2011-03-09 04:57:25 <Aciid> coinpal
 987 2011-03-09 04:57:26 <Aciid> ;P
 988 2011-03-09 04:57:29 <farzong> oh i c
 989 2011-03-09 04:57:32 <gasteve> it just makes it easier than setting them up on any of the exchanges or OTC
 990 2011-03-09 04:57:47 <farzong> graypal
 991 2011-03-09 04:57:59 <Aciid> i2p why so java
 992 2011-03-09 04:58:10 <gasteve> (and they can avoid the fees of services like coinpal)
 993 2011-03-09 04:58:11 <luke-jr> farzong: he could drive to Atlanta or Roswell
 994 2011-03-09 04:58:25 <luke-jr> gasteve is in Roswell
 995 2011-03-09 04:58:38 <x6763> coinpal is the easiest way to get bitcoins, though it costs you
 996 2011-03-09 04:58:46 <gasteve> though I usually tell them to use coinpal first
 997 2011-03-09 04:58:53 <farzong> so mtgox is the biggest exchange?
 998 2011-03-09 04:58:57 <luke-jr> farzong: yes
 999 2011-03-09 04:58:58 <nanotube> ;;topic change 3 s/01/02/
1000 2011-03-09 04:59:24 <luke-jr> gasteve: erm, listing on tradebitcoin.com is kinda implicitly saying you'll sell in person for cash
1001 2011-03-09 04:59:29 <luke-jr> gasteve: farzong is in Norcross
1002 2011-03-09 05:00:10 <gasteve> oh, cool
1003 2011-03-09 05:00:28 <farzong> yeah i clicked on paypal at mtgox site, and it says go to our paypal exchanger.. 7% tx fee
1004 2011-03-09 05:00:55 <luke-jr> farzong: if you won't sell your own bitcoin, hook him up with gasteve :P
1005 2011-03-09 05:01:04 <luke-jr> farzong: assuming your friend is local to you
1006 2011-03-09 05:01:14 <luke-jr> otherwise, have your friend lookup his location on tradebitcoin.com
1007 2011-03-09 05:01:35 <farzong> oh cool.. so how do you take cash gasteve, paypal?
1008 2011-03-09 05:02:05 <gasteve> I don't understand the issue though...just sell your friend some bitcoins you have, and buy them back on #bitcoin-otc
1009 2011-03-09 05:02:09 <luke-jr> farzong: in person
1010 2011-03-09 05:02:15 <farzong> ahh i c
1011 2011-03-09 05:02:32 <farzong> last time i did that i woke up missing a kidney
1012 2011-03-09 05:02:34 <farzong> but its all good
1013 2011-03-09 05:02:36 <gasteve> or, offer to place a bid on his behalf
1014 2011-03-09 05:02:36 <luke-jr> lol
1015 2011-03-09 05:03:27 <farzong> i wasnt aware of #bitcoin-otc thanks gasteve
1016 2011-03-09 05:03:33 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
1017 2011-03-09 05:03:47 <luke-jr> O.o
1018 2011-03-09 05:03:51 <luke-jr> nanotube: bot broken?
1019 2011-03-09 05:03:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112832 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 63 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 hours, 24 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77024.78048780
1020 2011-03-09 05:04:06 ball has quit (Quit: leaving)
1021 2011-03-09 05:04:39 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
1022 2011-03-09 05:04:40 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.884,"low":0.8512,"vol":4915,"buy":0.8505,"sell":0.87,"last":0.8546}}
1023 2011-03-09 05:04:47 <farzong> im in mexico tho.. dont think i can meet anyone
1024 2011-03-09 05:05:05 <luke-jr> farzong: your IP shows you in Georgia
1025 2011-03-09 05:05:13 <farzong> yeah its some shells
1026 2011-03-09 05:05:29 <gasteve> I've got a few friends nearby that "get it" regarding the bitcoin concept and are just getting started...I've offered to buy for them so they don't have to deal with the technical stuff and can avoid the fees
1027 2011-03-09 05:05:39 <luke-jr> farzong: oh well, you can be the Mexico bitcoin dealer
1028 2011-03-09 05:05:46 <farzong> nice
1029 2011-03-09 05:05:54 <luke-jr> night
1030 2011-03-09 05:06:13 <gasteve> farzong: #bitcoin-otc is mostly paypal or dwolla
1031 2011-03-09 05:06:36 <luke-jr> (meaning 1 or 2 people asking for Dwolla and not getting it)
1032 2011-03-09 05:06:57 <gasteve> I just bought some for dwolla an hour or so ago ;)
1033 2011-03-09 05:07:42 <luke-jr> o rly
1034 2011-03-09 05:07:51 <luke-jr> well I'm still going to bed
1035 2011-03-09 05:07:52 <luke-jr> :p
1036 2011-03-09 05:08:02 <gasteve> btw, I also offered to write a couple friends a 1-year put contract on their bitcoin purchase (up to a relatively small amount)
1037 2011-03-09 05:08:38 <gasteve> they haven't taken me up on it so far
1038 2011-03-09 05:09:46 <farzong> that could encourage a lot of businesses to get on board
1039 2011-03-09 05:11:44 ball has joined
1040 2011-03-09 05:17:29 <validus> someoen should write a script for pages to auto obtain the rate of bitcoin and adjust the prices accordingly
1041 2011-03-09 05:17:42 <validus> and i think that would improve some businesses getting on instead of another chore of a every day changing price
1042 2011-03-09 05:18:34 <validus> a user could select the amount in $usd you want the product to be equivalent for then have it auto adjust bitcoin to display that amount
1043 2011-03-09 05:19:23 <FellowTraveler1> Hi all.
1044 2011-03-09 05:19:28 <doublec> there is no 'rate of bitcoin' to obtain though
1045 2011-03-09 05:19:43 <validus> there is from various sites that display the low and high rates
1046 2011-03-09 05:19:56 <validus> you could even go so far as have it to obtain 3 low rates then make an average on it
1047 2011-03-09 05:19:59 <doublec> that means the site operator could manipulate the price returned to get a good deal on other sites
1048 2011-03-09 05:20:24 <validus> or if being a company and it dropped say .20 + you could get something at a steal and the company lose money
1049 2011-03-09 05:20:30 <validus> espically getting into high priced items
1050 2011-03-09 05:20:56 <validus> its 130 last i checked for a wii on the jj video game store that takes bitcoins. if bitcoins dropped even lower then he didnt adjust his rates, then i get more of a steal on a product
1051 2011-03-09 05:21:03 <validus> or risk negative feedback of renegging on orders etc
1052 2011-03-09 05:21:10 <validus> its a potential lost of funds
1053 2011-03-09 05:21:27 <validus> see my point on it? most ppl go by mtgox from what i see
1054 2011-03-09 05:21:37 anarchist has joined
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1056 2011-03-09 05:21:42 <doublec> there's risk either way
1057 2011-03-09 05:21:43 <validus> it shoudlnt be hard to make something adjust your USD value per say to auto change the proper price to change
1058 2011-03-09 05:22:02 <validus> same as advertising it in dollars. just with it being unstable sometimes and forever changing that could be good or bad
1059 2011-03-09 05:22:03 anarchist is now known as Guest64371
1060 2011-03-09 05:22:20 <validus> id be pissed if lost 20 - 50+ dollars on cuz of a bitcoin price falling and somone jumped on it
1061 2011-03-09 05:22:23 <validus> thats not good
1062 2011-03-09 05:22:44 <doublec> that can happen anyway. Person buys item. 2 minutes later price falls.
1063 2011-03-09 05:23:08 <validus> ya but if it was regulating the cost to the lowest bid, then it would have some sort of substance
1064 2011-03-09 05:23:09 <doublec> before you got a chance to offload the btc
1065 2011-03-09 05:23:20 <validus> and auto updates
1066 2011-03-09 05:23:51 <validus> if the price for 130 bitcoins was made when bitcoins was near $1.00, then why not auto update to adjust the 130 btc price if it fell to .75 per bitcoin
1067 2011-03-09 05:24:01 <validus> as you based your bitcoin price off of USD (or other currency) to begin with
1068 2011-03-09 05:24:17 <validus> if you could specify the amount you want beit a discount or not. and it auto changed i think its a good idea
1069 2011-03-09 05:24:34 <validus> say bitcoin dropped to a super low .50 and the guy still had the wii for 130 btc. is he going to reneg his business transaction?
1070 2011-03-09 05:24:37 <validus> say im sorry but its really more?
1071 2011-03-09 05:24:45 <validus> he woudl lose a ton of money in that
1072 2011-03-09 05:25:26 <nanotube> validus: as a merchant, you could just build up a buffer
1073 2011-03-09 05:25:32 <validus> since its valued against the USD atm, a script to auto adjust the bitcoin price on a selling website that updated automatically i think would be useful
1074 2011-03-09 05:25:42 <validus> and cause of less risk of a market taking a dive and you out some bookoo $$'s
1075 2011-03-09 05:25:59 <ball> How do I go about building the tarball  on a Linux host?
1076 2011-03-09 05:26:03 <validus> man tar
1077 2011-03-09 05:26:13 <doublec> Needs lots of merchants offering goods at BTC that don't fluctuate based on the USD. In wonder if that would stabalise the price.
1078 2011-03-09 05:26:13 <validus> or tar --help
1079 2011-03-09 05:26:29 <validus> well i was just using the wii as an example as it takes bitcoins
1080 2011-03-09 05:26:35 <validus> but do you see my point?
1081 2011-03-09 05:26:48 <ball> validus: I know how to untar, but not how to build it.
1082 2011-03-09 05:26:54 <validus> ball: read the man
1083 2011-03-09 05:26:59 <validus> its just flags
1084 2011-03-09 05:27:13 <doublec> yeah I agree if you are selling usd goods and offering a btc value based on that you'd want to keep it current
1085 2011-03-09 05:27:15 <validus> you should be able to tar something up with tar
1086 2011-03-09 05:27:25 <doublec> but you still have risk while you hold the btc that the price drops
1087 2011-03-09 05:27:32 <validus> but less as much
1088 2011-03-09 05:27:48 <farzong> i will trade btc for bbl
1089 2011-03-09 05:27:50 <validus> as so it would be your own fault if you did not sell the btc you acquired for the funds
1090 2011-03-09 05:28:04 <validus> but it should not be a auto loss due to the market fluctuating and someone jumping on it like that
1091 2011-03-09 05:28:08 <validus> i think thats just wrong but ppl will do it
1092 2011-03-09 05:28:17 <farzong> (std barrel of  west texas intermediate crude)
1093 2011-03-09 05:28:20 <farzong> that is
1094 2011-03-09 05:28:27 <validus> nice farzong
1095 2011-03-09 05:28:33 <validus> my great uncle makes biodiesel
1096 2011-03-09 05:28:37 <farzong> cool
1097 2011-03-09 05:28:39 <validus> also putting in a windmill
1098 2011-03-09 05:28:48 <nanotube> ball: tar -x to extract, tar -c to create.
1099 2011-03-09 05:29:00 <validus> lives in the middle of nowhere though, all the restaurants are family friends of him so he gets all the oil for free
1100 2011-03-09 05:30:26 <validus> but say with that wii example say i had 5 and someone bought all 5 when the market changed and i didnt change the price in btc. that could break a small business
1101 2011-03-09 05:30:37 <ball> nanotube: Never mind.
1102 2011-03-09 05:30:40 <validus> ppl on inets dont have a code of ethics just take what you can get or exploit lol
1103 2011-03-09 05:31:03 <validus> but i could see that as a point to some businesses of why they havent got on or stil thinking about it
1104 2011-03-09 05:31:14 <validus> that is an important thing
1105 2011-03-09 05:31:16 <farzong> validus: hmm.. usually the payment gateway will do the conversion at the time of sale. like the fine print on the website can say (actual value depends on btc-to-usd conversion rate at time of sale
1106 2011-03-09 05:31:27 <ball> Is the bitcoin address generated automatically?
1107 2011-03-09 05:31:40 <validus> but if its not and thats what they offered for, then they have to acknowledge the price and that coudl cost them alot of money
1108 2011-03-09 05:32:11 <farzong> well the fine print/tos spells out conditions where the bold price differs from the sale price..
1109 2011-03-09 05:32:29 <validus> its still a chore to constantly change prices every single day
1110 2011-03-09 05:32:38 <farzong> can you really uote prices in something that is highly volatile like gold ounces or barrells of oil
1111 2011-03-09 05:32:41 <validus> and causes other problems
1112 2011-03-09 05:32:42 <ball> Okay, looks like the tarball contained binaries
1113 2011-03-09 05:32:43 <gasteve> I thought about coming up with a new psuedo currency...it wouldn't be a real currency, but more like an index like CPI...I would take a basket of a variety of foods (a gallon of water, gallon of milk, chicken, beef, pork, various veggies, bread, etc) and price it out every week or so...I would give it some three letter currency designation...on initiation 1 of these would be roughly $1...people could price things in terms of it and with tooling,
1114 2011-03-09 05:32:43 <gasteve> automatically translate to btc, dollars, or anything else...actual payments would be in a real currency...contracts could be based on this index, loans based in it, etc
1115 2011-03-09 05:32:49 <farzong> yeah, have a javascript that does it
1116 2011-03-09 05:32:50 <ball> ...so I'm in the GUI client now.
1117 2011-03-09 05:32:54 <validus> like pointing out the TOS when ppl try to complain or go after you
1118 2011-03-09 05:33:14 <validus> i think it could save some sort of trouble but its convenient
1119 2011-03-09 05:33:23 <farzong> a javascript that fetches the conversion rate with json would be pretty easy to use on the page
1120 2011-03-09 05:33:24 <validus> if you have a shop selling things and it auto adjusts to the price you specified
1121 2011-03-09 05:33:31 <farzong> gasteve: cool idea
1122 2011-03-09 05:33:44 <validus> not just random but the price you set for it and it adjusts bitcoin to display what that conversion would be
1123 2011-03-09 05:33:47 <validus> and then you have a price
1124 2011-03-09 05:34:09 <validus> totally hands free, doesnt require daily updates from a user, allows you to manage more of your business as you should
1125 2011-03-09 05:34:20 u2time has joined
1126 2011-03-09 05:34:25 <gasteve> I thought it might be neat because it would highlight how ridiculous these people that fear a deflationary currency are being
1127 2011-03-09 05:34:38 <validus> even if it doesnt do that and it rises
1128 2011-03-09 05:34:49 <validus> it would still benefit as adjusting it back to the price you set for it to compare itself to
1129 2011-03-09 05:35:09 <validus> so even if they jumped to $2.00 a btc, the site would reflect that and the "wii" woudlnt be at 130 anymore
1130 2011-03-09 05:35:19 <validus> not saying thats what that site should do , just an example
1131 2011-03-09 05:35:40 <validus> what you do with the bitcoins when you get them is your own risk factor
1132 2011-03-09 05:35:56 <farzong> validus: yeah a simple javascript would do that <div class="price">20.00</div>  $('.price').each etc
1133 2011-03-09 05:35:57 <validus> but at the present time the prices would be correct and right and not worrying about all the other little minute things and problems
1134 2011-03-09 05:36:24 <validus> like renegging on a order. saying you owe me more money. gaining negative publicity from it. losing a crapt ton of $$ in your own small business
1135 2011-03-09 05:36:31 <farzong> a .js script can update all your prices (assume the html contains USD, it would fetch out the conversion rate and replace the text0
1136 2011-03-09 05:36:33 <gasteve> and, by being based on basic foods, it would encompass a lot of different factors that go into food production...and, it represents the very basics of what is needed to sustain life...in a sense, everything would be priced relative to the very basic necessity of food
1137 2011-03-09 05:36:58 <validus> in a sense you still have freedom as you can specify the price for it to co-relate to
1138 2011-03-09 05:37:10 <validus> you cant tell me the guy just made upa random price of 130 and sell it for bitcoins
1139 2011-03-09 05:37:13 <validus> that would be insane
1140 2011-03-09 05:37:25 <ball> How do I get coins?  Can I buy them somewhere?
1141 2011-03-09 05:37:32 <validus> # of ways
1142 2011-03-09 05:37:32 Mango-chan has joined
1143 2011-03-09 05:37:34 <Mango-chan> lol.
1144 2011-03-09 05:37:42 <Mango-chan> 1836 	2011-03-08 19:42:56 	0:01:20 	683 	15.28327170 	112762 	49 confirmations left
1145 2011-03-09 05:37:43 <Mango-chan> aren't i lucky
1146 2011-03-09 05:37:44 <ball> ...do I have to sell something physical and have someone pay me in coins?
1147 2011-03-09 05:37:53 <farzong> you gotta suck some cocks...
1148 2011-03-09 05:37:56 <nanotube> ball: you can get some from the faucet, or you can buy some on the markets.
1149 2011-03-09 05:38:05 <farzong> j/k dude
1150 2011-03-09 05:38:08 Tril has joined
1151 2011-03-09 05:38:11 <nanotube> ball: faucet will give you .05 for free
1152 2011-03-09 05:38:48 <doublec> ball: you can buy coins from coinpal using paypal
1153 2011-03-09 05:38:59 <doublec> ball: http://coinpal.ndrix.com/
1154 2011-03-09 05:39:04 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki buying bitcoins
1155 2011-03-09 05:39:04 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Buying_bitcoins | Feb 25, 2011 ... Buying bitcoins. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search. One issue currently facing a newcomer to bitcoin is, how do I get some? ...
1156 2011-03-09 05:40:41 <farzong> rumplecoinskin
1157 2011-03-09 05:40:49 <Tril> ;;bc,stats
1158 2011-03-09 05:41:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112834 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 61 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 hours, 13 minutes, and 7 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76918.56224367
1159 2011-03-09 05:45:46 <ball> I don't have a paypal account, but I've requested a drip from the faucet.
1160 2011-03-09 05:46:49 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1161 2011-03-09 05:47:48 Spenvo has joined
1162 2011-03-09 05:49:18 u2time has left ()
1163 2011-03-09 05:50:19 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1164 2011-03-09 05:52:14 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1165 2011-03-09 05:52:15 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8839,"low":0.8512,"vol":4865,"buy":0.8505,"sell":0.87,"last":0.87}}
1166 2011-03-09 05:53:58 <ball> Does it take a while for the faucet to issue coins?
1167 2011-03-09 05:54:31 <Tril> sometimes
1168 2011-03-09 05:55:09 <validus> i waited a few hours
1169 2011-03-09 05:55:30 <ball> Okay.  I'll wait a while.
1170 2011-03-09 05:55:46 <ball> What do the "blocks" represent?
1171 2011-03-09 05:57:03 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki blocks
1172 2011-03-09 05:57:03 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Blocks | Mar 2, 2011 ... Data is permanently recorded in the Bitcoin network through blocks. Each block contains all recent transactions, a nonce (random number), ...
1173 2011-03-09 05:57:18 <nanotube> see also ,,(bc,wiki how bitcoin works)
1174 2011-03-09 05:57:18 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_bitcoin_works | http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2487.0 A forum thread with some good 'for-the-layperson' explanations of how bitcoin works. ...
1175 2011-03-09 06:02:15 <farzong> cool
1176 2011-03-09 06:06:03 <ball> thanks
1177 2011-03-09 06:06:30 <nanotube> np, enjoy the wiki. :)
1178 2011-03-09 06:20:08 <mizerydearia> When was the switch from Bitcoin to BitCoin?
1179 2011-03-09 06:20:15 <mizerydearia> And why?
1180 2011-03-09 06:20:27 MUILTFN has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1181 2011-03-09 06:20:29 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
1182 2011-03-09 06:20:33 <phantomcircuit> ?
1183 2011-03-09 06:20:35 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stat
1184 2011-03-09 06:20:42 gribble has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1185 2011-03-09 06:20:44 <mizerydearia> ^_^
1186 2011-03-09 06:20:49 <mizerydearia> you killed it
1187 2011-03-09 06:20:51 <mizerydearia> murderer!!!
1188 2011-03-09 06:21:04 gribble has joined
1189 2011-03-09 06:21:30 nanotube has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1190 2011-03-09 06:21:42 <mizerydearia> omfgz, you killed nanotube too!
1191 2011-03-09 06:21:49 * mizerydearia runs away and hides
1192 2011-03-09 06:22:01 <OneFixt> "<mizerydearia> gribble :Nobody chats here!!!!!! "
1193 2011-03-09 06:22:01 <mizerydearia> he's got a gun!
1194 2011-03-09 06:22:25 <mizerydearia> huh?  are you saying I killed it?
1195 2011-03-09 06:22:29 <mizerydearia> I did not!
1196 2011-03-09 06:23:29 nanotube has joined
1197 2011-03-09 06:23:40 <mizerydearia> OneFixt: I am practicing my automated spamming capabilities, even spamming bots
1198 2011-03-09 06:24:20 <OneFixt> yep i know, it just looked funny, would've been great if gribble told you the same thing
1199 2011-03-09 06:26:19 <mizerydearia> ^_^
1200 2011-03-09 06:27:12 <mizerydearia> actually, it would'be been funny if both nanotube and I were afk and gribble and I were automatedly replying back and forth to each other infinitely
1201 2011-03-09 06:27:29 <mizerydearia> considering there is no channel registration or operator
1202 2011-03-09 06:29:13 <Spenvo> mizery, where did you see that there was a switch to BitCoin?
1203 2011-03-09 06:30:46 <phantomcircuit> wait i just realized something
1204 2011-03-09 06:30:56 <phantomcircuit> bitcoind starts to download the block chain as soon as you start it
1205 2011-03-09 06:31:07 <phantomcircuit> but how does it know what the latest block is?
1206 2011-03-09 06:31:37 <mizerydearia> Spenvo, I see BitCoin quite frequently
1207 2011-03-09 06:32:08 <phantomcircuit> oh 000
1208 2011-03-09 06:32:19 <phantomcircuit> lol wasting my time with gettil
1209 2011-03-09 06:33:03 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: bitcoin knows "is initial block download?", which is when height < locked-in-height
1210 2011-03-09 06:33:20 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, huh?
1211 2011-03-09 06:33:21 <mizerydearia> From my logs: 9,930 instances of Bitcoin and 1,087 instances of BitCoin
1212 2011-03-09 06:33:46 MUILTFN has joined
1213 2011-03-09 06:35:13 <phantomcircuit> neat
1214 2011-03-09 06:35:26 <jgarzik> after that, it just calculates the height based on best chain with largest collective strength
1215 2011-03-09 06:35:41 <mizerydearia> even /.  article has it wrong http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/10/189246/Online-Only-Currency-BitCoin-Reaches-Dollar-Parity?from=rss
1216 2011-03-09 06:35:49 <phantomcircuit> my python client now downloads a complete block chain and calculates the height of each block in O(1)
1217 2011-03-09 06:36:06 <phantomcircuit> well i guess each block is O(n), individual blocks O(1)
1218 2011-03-09 06:36:32 <OneFixt> how do you check the backlog of unconfirmed transactions?
1219 2011-03-09 06:36:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, actually it sends getblock(genesis_block,null_block), then builds the chain forwards from that
1220 2011-03-09 06:37:20 <jgarzik> yep
1221 2011-03-09 06:37:21 <phantomcircuit> and afaict the mainline client wont tell you if the chain has split in the past
1222 2011-03-09 06:37:40 <jgarzik> you might or might not have those orphan blocks.
1223 2011-03-09 06:38:06 ball has quit (Quit: leaving)
1224 2011-03-09 06:38:31 <Spenvo> sorry if you guys think this is spamming, but here's what I'm up to:  if you post to craigslist in "for sale" or "gigs" and include the word "Bitcoin" / "Bitcoins" - I do a daily crawl and put the postings up on my site - currently crawling 60 municipalities
1225 2011-03-09 06:43:29 <Spenvo> damn, that killed the conversation
1226 2011-03-09 06:43:36 <Spenvo> sorry
1227 2011-03-09 06:43:44 <OneFixt> Spenvo: it's a good idea, what's the site?
1228 2011-03-09 06:44:06 <Tril> if I delete blkindex.dat will it be recreated
1229 2011-03-09 06:44:32 <Spenvo> it's the bitcoin bulletin, currently being redesigned and php backend will be truly underway prob in next week
1230 2011-03-09 06:44:40 <Tril> and what's the fast way to sync a block chain between two computers
1231 2011-03-09 06:44:57 <Spenvo> sites been up only a few days
1232 2011-03-09 06:45:43 <jgarzik> Tril: if you delete blk*.dat, it will be recreated
1233 2011-03-09 06:45:53 <jgarzik> Tril: you can copy blk*.dat between two computers
1234 2011-03-09 06:45:55 <OneFixt> Spenvo: very nice
1235 2011-03-09 06:45:57 <Tril> how about just the index
1236 2011-03-09 06:46:11 <Tril> will it rebuild without downloading if I copy the blk0001.dat
1237 2011-03-09 06:46:27 <jgarzik> Tril: no, it will start from scratch and assume you have a corrupted database
1238 2011-03-09 06:46:41 <Spenvo> OneFixt: ty, i'll seriously need feedback when redesign is up! :)
1239 2011-03-09 06:46:45 <jgarzik> Tril: you can download http://yyz.us/bitcoin/block-db-94000.tar.bz2 which has blk*.dat up to block ~94000
1240 2011-03-09 06:47:05 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ps that's only true if you use the binaries
1241 2011-03-09 06:47:08 <Tril> ok.  why is it my block chain usually updates very fast and now it's taking a long time today?
1242 2011-03-09 06:47:22 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: which part?
1243 2011-03-09 06:47:30 <phantomcircuit> db-4.8 isn't binary compatible with db-4.7
1244 2011-03-09 06:47:39 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: it's upwards compatible
1245 2011-03-09 06:47:52 <phantomcircuit> hmm it might be
1246 2011-03-09 06:48:24 <jgarzik> Tril: what is your current block count?  is it approximately the same as http://bitcoinwatch.com/ ?
1247 2011-03-09 06:48:44 <phantomcircuit> man sqlite is super ridiculous inefficient
1248 2011-03-09 06:49:51 <phantomcircuit> 10 second commits
1249 2011-03-09 06:49:54 <phantomcircuit> what the hell
1250 2011-03-09 06:50:02 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: it's not bad, as long as you're not doing something dumb like importing 10,000 records, and creating a transaction per record
1251 2011-03-09 06:50:18 <jgarzik> and pay attention to the filesystem you're using...
1252 2011-03-09 06:50:24 <phantomcircuit> ext4
1253 2011-03-09 06:50:40 <phantomcircuit> iirc there is actually a corruption bug
1254 2011-03-09 06:52:15 <phantomcircuit> but no im not doing anything stupid like that
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1259 2011-03-09 06:53:22 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ~1k inserts, 3 index entries per insert, 1 transaction, 3 seconds
1260 2011-03-09 06:53:29 <phantomcircuit> that seems like a damned long tiem to me
1261 2011-03-09 06:53:39 <Tril> jgarzik: i'm on 112631 currently. connecting to one peer. usually it just counts up really fast. seems to stick for a few minutes between each block. it will get a few blocks then freeze for a bit.
1262 2011-03-09 06:54:18 <jgarzik> Tril: the one-peer thing sounds like your problem.  you are definitely behind by a couple hundred blocks.
1263 2011-03-09 06:54:36 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: indeed, though I think it does something like an fsync(2) per index
1264 2011-03-09 06:54:40 <jgarzik> plus one for main db
1265 2011-03-09 06:55:04 <Tril> does other peer throttle me for some reason?
1266 2011-03-09 06:57:01 <phantomcircuit> seems to consistently be about 3 seconds regardless of the # of records
1267 2011-03-09 06:57:18 <phantomcircuit> wait no
1268 2011-03-09 06:57:32 <phantomcircuit> yeah it's definitely from inserting the index stuff
1269 2011-03-09 06:57:40 <Tril> I'll figure my issue out later. it will catch up eventually.
1270 2011-03-09 06:58:01 t4ls0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1271 2011-03-09 06:58:01 <jgarzik> Tril: can you not add more peers?
1272 2011-03-09 06:58:02 <phantomcircuit> i end up with a lot of duplicate inserts, the duplicates take almost no time at all while the first batch take forever
1273 2011-03-09 06:58:15 <phantomcircuit> oh well
1274 2011-03-09 06:58:17 <phantomcircuit> a trade off
1275 2011-03-09 06:58:29 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: indexing the block chain by hash and height?
1276 2011-03-09 06:58:33 <phantomcircuit> maybe adding the indexes in the create table statement will make them faster
1277 2011-03-09 06:58:41 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, hash,prev_hash,height
1278 2011-03-09 06:59:06 <phantomcircuit> the algorithm im using to calculate the height walks backwards up the chain
1279 2011-03-09 06:59:15 <phantomcircuit> so i need prev_hash quite a bit
1280 2011-03-09 06:59:49 <phantomcircuit> eh crap dead lock
1281 2011-03-09 06:59:57 <phantomcircuit> fail
1282 2011-03-09 07:02:06 <phantomcircuit> seems to stall like 4 blocks before the latest one
1283 2011-03-09 07:02:08 <phantomcircuit> meh
1284 2011-03-09 07:02:11 <phantomcircuit> l8r
1285 2011-03-09 07:06:16 <Tril> jgarzik: I guess restarting a few times connecting to some different nodes worked.
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1297 2011-03-09 07:26:35 gasteve_ is now known as gasteve
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1299 2011-03-09 07:26:49 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
1300 2011-03-09 07:26:49 Mango-chan has joined
1301 2011-03-09 07:27:10 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
1302 2011-03-09 07:27:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112841 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 54 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 hours, 34 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76600.29178333
1303 2011-03-09 07:50:01 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1304 2011-03-09 07:54:24 Guest64371 is now known as agorist
1305 2011-03-09 07:54:53 agorist is now known as anarchist
1306 2011-03-09 07:54:59 anarchist is now known as agorist
1307 2011-03-09 07:55:13 <agorist> man what the
1308 2011-03-09 07:55:25 <agorist> i didnt know you had to register your nicks on freenode
1309 2011-03-09 07:55:26 <agorist> :(
1310 2011-03-09 07:56:45 <validus> i forgot my password for mine but it dont enforce it lol
1311 2011-03-09 07:57:23 <validus> or the one script i have is inputting it auto as it says both accepted and not. so dunno
1312 2011-03-09 07:58:15 MartianW has joined
1313 2011-03-09 08:13:42 <agorist> ;;bc,calcd 568000
1314 2011-03-09 08:13:42 <gribble> (bc,calcd <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
1315 2011-03-09 08:14:17 <agorist> ;;bc,calcd 568000 55590.23763914
1316 2011-03-09 08:14:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 568000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 55590.23763914, is 4 days, 20 hours, 45 minutes, and 49 seconds
1317 2011-03-09 08:23:53 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1318 2011-03-09 08:28:54 <Mango-chan> http://www.rehost.org/images/1299658770.png why is windows so shit?
1319 2011-03-09 08:30:34 <[Tycho]> It's a graph of sucking level ?
1320 2011-03-09 08:34:07 larsig has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1321 2011-03-09 08:41:16 TD has joined
1322 2011-03-09 08:41:26 BlueMatt has joined
1323 2011-03-09 08:45:28 TD has quit (Client Quit)
1324 2011-03-09 08:54:02 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1325 2011-03-09 08:54:12 altamic has joined
1326 2011-03-09 08:57:10 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1327 2011-03-09 08:58:03 BlueMatt has joined
1328 2011-03-09 09:01:16 <BlueMatt> so, current clients never forward txes with multiple outputs? And sendmany patch forwards any, or is there still a limit?
1329 2011-03-09 09:03:25 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1330 2011-03-09 09:07:14 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1331 2011-03-09 09:11:57 larsig has joined
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1333 2011-03-09 09:15:06 agorist has quit ()
1334 2011-03-09 09:18:08 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1335 2011-03-09 09:25:23 noagendamarket has joined
1336 2011-03-09 09:28:37 dissipate has joined
1337 2011-03-09 09:38:27 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1338 2011-03-09 09:41:38 <Sirius> something wrong with the forums?
1339 2011-03-09 09:47:57 <Aciid> nope?
1340 2011-03-09 09:48:09 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1341 2011-03-09 09:48:42 <dazoe> anyone have a xeon desktop? if so, how many khashes does it get minning?
1342 2011-03-09 09:49:41 <Aciid> dazoe: wiki
1343 2011-03-09 09:51:35 xelister has joined
1344 2011-03-09 09:57:22 <Keefe> a little more than 0 :P
1345 2011-03-09 09:58:14 malfy has joined
1346 2011-03-09 09:59:27 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1347 2011-03-09 09:59:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112859 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 36 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 44 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76514.31910496
1348 2011-03-09 10:04:46 <Aciid> if you must CPU mine then I suggest
1349 2011-03-09 10:04:47 <Aciid> Phenom II X6 1100T 6nprocs 22Mh/s 0.176Mh/W 125W 3.82 GHz
1350 2011-03-09 10:05:19 <Aciid> and even that sucks, so just go and buy a decent GPU
1351 2011-03-09 10:06:32 TD has joined
1352 2011-03-09 10:13:37 <Aciid> [Tycho]: how come stats are delayed?
1353 2011-03-09 10:13:42 <Aciid> "by one hour"
1354 2011-03-09 10:22:34 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1355 2011-03-09 10:22:50 <[Tycho]> Is there something wrong with it ?
1356 2011-03-09 10:23:17 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1357 2011-03-09 10:26:17 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1358 2011-03-09 10:26:58 ibaghdadi has joined
1359 2011-03-09 10:27:09 <ibaghdadi> helo
1360 2011-03-09 10:27:32 ibaghdadi has quit (Client Quit)
1361 2011-03-09 10:28:19 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1362 2011-03-09 10:29:02 LobsterMan has joined
1363 2011-03-09 10:29:02 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
1364 2011-03-09 10:29:02 LobsterMan has joined
1365 2011-03-09 10:35:25 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1366 2011-03-09 10:38:54 LobsterMan has joined
1367 2011-03-09 10:38:54 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
1368 2011-03-09 10:38:54 LobsterMan has joined
1369 2011-03-09 10:39:27 <xelister> bubble slowly bursting? ;)
1370 2011-03-09 10:42:05 slush has joined
1371 2011-03-09 10:44:27 * LobsterMan slaps xelister around with a heavy metal pole
1372 2011-03-09 10:46:53 <LobsterMan> slush when are registrations re opening?
1373 2011-03-09 10:49:30 <Aciid> [Tycho]: no just wondering.
1374 2011-03-09 10:50:57 Tritonio has joined
1375 2011-03-09 10:50:57 <slush> LobsterMan: maybe tomorrow. Still on current pool core, but after short analysis I found pool is loaded only for 30% of capacity
1376 2011-03-09 10:51:22 <LobsterMan> i was going to do a writeup on my site for how to use the pool
1377 2011-03-09 10:51:30 <LobsterMan> but i've been waiting for registrations to re open
1378 2011-03-09 10:51:46 <slush> you don't have account here? I thought you have
1379 2011-03-09 10:51:50 <LobsterMan> i do
1380 2011-03-09 10:52:00 <LobsterMan> but what good is a guide for people on how to use your pool if they cannot sign up
1381 2011-03-09 10:52:06 <slush> oh, ok :)
1382 2011-03-09 10:52:09 <LobsterMan> ;]
1383 2011-03-09 10:52:15 <slush> LobsterMan: so you can write it, I'll open soon ;)
1384 2011-03-09 10:52:27 <sipa> slush: any progress with pool v2?
1385 2011-03-09 10:53:31 <slush> sipa: yes, currently I'm making current site "forward compatible" with data structures coming in with v2
1386 2011-03-09 10:53:39 <slush> sipa: I have working demo of new core
1387 2011-03-09 10:53:48 <LobsterMan> btw...are you going to keep the mandatory 2% donations? ;P
1388 2011-03-09 10:54:08 <slush> sipa: still on top of bitcoind, moving to own "bitcoind implementation" will be the last step
1389 2011-03-09 10:54:42 <slush> sipa: then I'll knock up final push solution pretty easy
1390 2011-03-09 10:55:33 <slush> LobsterMan: when pool was built on bitcoind, then probably yes. I'll see how it will works (push + bitcoind)
1391 2011-03-09 10:57:14 <slush> LobsterMan: 2% is still lowest fee. But I'll remove the stupid "donations" selectbox, it can be confusing for new users
1392 2011-03-09 10:57:26 <LobsterMan> yeah lol
1393 2011-03-09 10:58:15 <slush> LobsterMan: if push + custom node implementation will work well, then I save a lot server resources and move fees to "promised" 1%
1394 2011-03-09 10:58:40 <LobsterMan> imo 2% isn't unreasonable
1395 2011-03-09 10:58:47 <LobsterMan> 1% is always better though ;]
1396 2011-03-09 10:59:50 <slush> LobsterMan: I expect that with push + custom node, I'll be able to handle more times higher load than now on the same hardware
1397 2011-03-09 11:04:10 <UukGoblin> ah, what's the latest on that Raul's stuff about 42.5% time-to-switch?
1398 2011-03-09 11:04:31 <slush> UukGoblin: it's valid attack on share based pools
1399 2011-03-09 11:04:49 <UukGoblin> is your pool "share based"? :-]
1400 2011-03-09 11:04:53 <slush> no :)
1401 2011-03-09 11:04:57 <UukGoblin> ah.
1402 2011-03-09 11:04:57 <slush> it is score based :)
1403 2011-03-09 11:05:08 <slush> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
1404 2011-03-09 11:06:48 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1405 2011-03-09 11:06:57 <UukGoblin> coool
1406 2011-03-09 11:07:02 sshc has joined
1407 2011-03-09 11:07:24 <UukGoblin> and I guess you're working on the many-small-slow-transactions problem? :-)
1408 2011-03-09 11:07:56 <slush> well, not currently. But gavin is working on feature for sending transactions with multiple outputs
1409 2011-03-09 11:08:04 <UukGoblin> cool
1410 2011-03-09 11:08:06 <slush> then it will be available on bitcoind RPC
1411 2011-03-09 11:08:09 <UukGoblin> the 'sendmany' thing
1412 2011-03-09 11:08:10 <slush> and then I'll use it :)
1413 2011-03-09 11:08:14 <UukGoblin> cool :-)
1414 2011-03-09 11:08:14 <slush> yes
1415 2011-03-09 11:08:21 <ArtForz> yep
1416 2011-03-09 11:08:39 <ArtForz> also shouldnt need too widespread adoption before you can use it ;)
1417 2011-03-09 11:09:09 <slush> ArtForz: if there will be patch, I can use it pretty fast
1418 2011-03-09 11:09:18 <UukGoblin> slush, will you put a transaction fee in that one big transaction to encourage miners to approve it faster? :-]
1419 2011-03-09 11:09:58 <ArtForz> well, same basic tx fee rules apply
1420 2011-03-09 11:10:09 <sipa> if the big transaction is really big
1421 2011-03-09 11:10:20 <sipa> it will need a tx fee anyway, no?
1422 2011-03-09 11:10:24 <slush> UukGoblin: I'll see if it will be necessary :)
1423 2011-03-09 11:10:26 <UukGoblin> mhm
1424 2011-03-09 11:10:30 <ArtForz> yep
1425 2011-03-09 11:10:38 <UukGoblin> would be nice to have 0.01 regardless ;-]
1426 2011-03-09 11:10:43 <ArtForz> not to mention you can just special-case your own transactions
1427 2011-03-09 11:10:51 <slush> but the fee 0.01 is per kB, isn't it?
1428 2011-03-09 11:11:12 <ArtForz> if the tx is above the free tx size limit, yes
1429 2011-03-09 11:11:17 <slush> ArtForz: yes, I plan it to the future, but I'm not able to hack bitcoind by myself for this
1430 2011-03-09 11:12:30 <ArtForz> that shouldnt be a problem though
1431 2011-03-09 11:12:41 <ArtForz> max free tx size is ~10kB
1432 2011-03-09 11:12:50 <ArtForz> each output is like 34 bytes
1433 2011-03-09 11:13:05 <slush> ArtForz: currently I send around 20-40 tx per hour
1434 2011-03-09 11:13:35 <ArtForz> input scriptsigs are what consumes the most space
1435 2011-03-09 11:15:14 <ArtForz> each output is just 8 bytes value + scriptpubkey, which is average 26 bytes for pay-to-addr
1436 2011-03-09 11:15:56 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1437 2011-03-09 11:16:52 <ArtForz> each input is ~175 bytes
1438 2011-03-09 11:18:00 <ArtForz> so doing a chain of (x->A+change, change->B+change, ...) needs about 245 bytes per output
1439 2011-03-09 11:18:17 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1440 2011-03-09 11:18:49 <ArtForz> so sendmany cuts total tx size for that use case to about 1/7
1441 2011-03-09 11:19:02 LobsterMan has joined
1442 2011-03-09 11:19:05 <TD> yeah, it's a big improvement
1443 2011-03-09 11:19:38 <TD> it should buy us some more time at least. eventually the same problem will reoccur without changes to the inclusion rules and/or a bump in the block size limits.
1444 2011-03-09 11:20:21 <TD> ArtForz: whereabouts in the world are you based, btw? it seems you never sleep
1445 2011-03-09 11:20:27 <ArtForz> .de
1446 2011-03-09 11:20:49 <ArtForz> well, imo it's a very good change, it moves the burden of having shitloads of small tx from pool operators to miners that request such small payouts
1447 2011-03-09 11:20:51 <TD> ah
1448 2011-03-09 11:21:58 Cusipzzz has joined
1449 2011-03-09 11:22:27 <ArtForz> looks like it's ~4.5kB normal style vs. ~0.89kB sendmany-style for 20 outputs
1450 2011-03-09 11:22:30 Cusipzzz has quit (Client Quit)
1451 2011-03-09 11:22:44 <[Tycho]> How this can affect those miners ?
1452 2011-03-09 11:22:44 <dazoe> ;;bc,stats
1453 2011-03-09 11:22:48 sethsethseth__ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
1454 2011-03-09 11:22:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112866 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 29 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 2 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76401.34768300
1455 2011-03-09 11:23:10 <ArtForz> well, they'll either have to consolidate their inputs slowly, or pay tx fees for any large send because it's made up from 100s of 0.0x inputs
1456 2011-03-09 11:23:21 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1457 2011-03-09 11:23:46 <[Tycho]> :)
1458 2011-03-09 11:23:55 <TD> yeah, probably the next direction for this pool scaling work to go in is teaching the client to slowly consolidate fragmented wallets
1459 2011-03-09 11:24:07 <TD> not just miners but merchants will encounter the same problem
1460 2011-03-09 11:24:18 <ArtForz> I kinda prefer having pool miners requesting such a small min payout limit to pay their own stupid tax
1461 2011-03-09 11:24:34 <TD> selling something for 0.05btc and then having to pay their employees at the end of the month, type of thing.
1462 2011-03-09 11:24:50 <ArtForz> sounds more like micropayments than merchants
1463 2011-03-09 11:24:57 * [Tycho] pays small txses only once per day :)
1464 2011-03-09 11:27:32 <TD> well, merchants selling things for cheap
1465 2011-03-09 11:27:44 <TD> imagine the classic lemonade stand example
1466 2011-03-09 11:27:53 <TD> 5 cents for a lemonade or something.
1467 2011-03-09 11:28:25 <Aciid> and most of your customers are your relatives?
1468 2011-03-09 11:28:33 <Aciid> +neighbours
1469 2011-03-09 11:29:28 <TD> maybe vending machines are a better example. selling snacks for not very much then at the end of each month you want to pay a wholesaler a big chunk of cash.
1470 2011-03-09 11:29:34 quadcores has joined
1471 2011-03-09 11:32:20 magnetron has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1472 2011-03-09 11:33:09 quadcores has left ()
1473 2011-03-09 11:39:16 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
1474 2011-03-09 11:39:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112871 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 24 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 31 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76417.66026724
1475 2011-03-09 11:39:34 <xelister> 2 HOURS SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT shit
1476 2011-03-09 11:39:44 * xelister mines like its 1999
1477 2011-03-09 11:40:06 <sipa> with your P2 cpu?
1478 2011-03-09 11:40:25 <xelister> with lawalamp case backlight
1479 2011-03-09 11:46:31 BlueMatt has joined
1480 2011-03-09 11:47:22 <[Tycho]> TD, serious busines can afford mining for blocks :)
1481 2011-03-09 11:47:38 <javagamer> About how many confirmations is it best to wait for and rougly how long can this take?
1482 2011-03-09 11:47:49 <Aciid> ITS COMING
1483 2011-03-09 11:47:52 <javagamer> *roughly
1484 2011-03-09 11:47:55 <[Tycho]> 1-120
1485 2011-03-09 11:48:05 <[Tycho]> Usually 3 is enough
1486 2011-03-09 11:48:26 <javagamer> Alright, thanks
1487 2011-03-09 11:49:05 <[Tycho]> Each one is 10 min.
1488 2011-03-09 11:49:06 <BlueMatt> javagamer: look for the paper satoshi wrote
1489 2011-03-09 11:49:19 <BlueMatt> javagamer: he calculated the probability someone could overtake the block chain with x percent of the network
1490 2011-03-09 11:50:42 <javagamer> Alright, will check it out
1491 2011-03-09 11:55:58 ousado_ has joined
1492 2011-03-09 11:56:06 ousado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1493 2011-03-09 11:56:21 mtve has joined
1494 2011-03-09 11:56:22 <xelister> how to set port number on bitcoind?
1495 2011-03-09 11:56:29 <sipa> change the source
1496 2011-03-09 11:56:30 <xelister> so bitcoind listens on other port
1497 2011-03-09 11:56:34 <xelister> sipa: that sucks donkey balls
1498 2011-03-09 11:56:57 <Aciid> xelister: port trigger
1499 2011-03-09 11:57:01 <Aciid> forward
1500 2011-03-09 11:57:24 <xelister> Aciid: no I really want to change the port even inside lan
1501 2011-03-09 11:57:41 <Aciid> recompile, hex, reverse-engineer.
1502 2011-03-09 11:57:45 <Aciid> choose one
1503 2011-03-09 11:58:05 <dazoe> What's with deepbit?
1504 2011-03-09 11:58:16 <xelister> (*) recompile       [x] bitch how this sucks  ( )regular (*)donkey's  ( )Ati's   cocks
1505 2011-03-09 11:58:42 <dazoe> ;;bc,stats
1506 2011-03-09 11:58:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112875 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 20 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 6 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76500.69039221
1507 2011-03-09 11:58:53 <Aciid> xelister: what's your problem?
1508 2011-03-09 11:59:00 <BlueMatt> xelister: you have to apply my patch
1509 2011-03-09 11:59:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: which is really just gavin's patch with a small modification...
1510 2011-03-09 11:59:04 <dazoe> nvm, deepbit's back
1511 2011-03-09 11:59:12 <xelister> Aciid: I would expect such obvious thing to be long ago in code =)
1512 2011-03-09 11:59:25 <Aciid> xelister: Y U NO PATCH?
1513 2011-03-09 11:59:33 <Aciid> fearful windows user
1514 2011-03-09 11:59:38 <BlueMatt> xelister: gavin wrote it a long time ago but hasnt commited it because of fears of Sybil attacks
1515 2011-03-09 12:00:06 <Aciid> dazoe: it RPC communication failures sometimes
1516 2011-03-09 12:00:07 <BlueMatt> though I think its not an issue, and Im hoping to convince gavinandresen to get it in the next version
1517 2011-03-09 12:00:08 <xelister> yeah that really will stop all the attackers, not like they can change 1 thing in code
1518 2011-03-09 12:00:25 <xelister> so if I have say 3 miners on 1 external IP then how do I connect them
1519 2011-03-09 12:00:31 <BlueMatt> xelister: no, current clients penalize clients which aren't on the default port
1520 2011-03-09 12:00:48 <BlueMatt> xelister: one on the network, then 3 rpc or 3 with -connect=mainclient
1521 2011-03-09 12:01:31 <xelister> miner ---rpc---> local bitcoind with -connect=192.168.1.2  ------> bitcoind on 192.168.1.2    like that?
1522 2011-03-09 12:01:46 <[Tycho]> dazoe, sofware update. Online again.
1523 2011-03-09 12:02:09 <ArtForz> err, why not set rpcallowip on main node and connect your miners to it?
1524 2011-03-09 12:02:10 <BlueMatt> xelister: you can do that, or miner -rpc-> bitcoind on ...2 <-rpc- other miner
1525 2011-03-09 12:02:17 <Aciid> something that RPC miners are missing, broadcast messages from server
1526 2011-03-09 12:02:27 <Aciid> so you could announce upgrades etc
1527 2011-03-09 12:03:21 <xelister> ArtForz: SPoF
1528 2011-03-09 12:03:30 <BlueMatt> Aciid: upgrades to miner protocol is in the works, but announcing upgrades isnt worth putting in the protocol (the miners should figure that out if their miner isnt working)
1529 2011-03-09 12:03:39 <ArtForz> you just said it's all being 1 nat box...
1530 2011-03-09 12:03:42 <ArtForz> *behind
1531 2011-03-09 12:04:01 <xelister> yeap but that box is rather very stable
1532 2011-03-09 12:04:11 <xelister> bitcoind is on another box
1533 2011-03-09 12:04:24 dazoe has quit ()
1534 2011-03-09 12:05:34 <BlueMatt> xelister: so point all your miners to the main bitcoind
1535 2011-03-09 12:05:34 <BlueMatt> xelister: and only run one bitcoind
1536 2011-03-09 12:08:57 * xelister holly ubuntu motherfucker batman, udisk-daemon burns ENTIRE CPU for no reason
1537 2011-03-09 12:12:11 <xelister> now migration/0 eats half cpu
1538 2011-03-09 12:12:18 <xelister> wtf is wrong with my box
1539 2011-03-09 12:19:44 <BlueMatt> xelister: are you on an i7 and running a stock kernel?
1540 2011-03-09 12:19:52 <BlueMatt> x58 chipset?
1541 2011-03-09 12:29:01 <jrabbit> xelister: dmesg?
1542 2011-03-09 12:29:03 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
1543 2011-03-09 12:33:33 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1544 2011-03-09 12:39:13 bitcoiner has joined
1545 2011-03-09 12:40:26 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1546 2011-03-09 12:40:54 Necr0s has joined
1547 2011-03-09 12:41:09 FellowTraveler1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1548 2011-03-09 12:52:04 ousado_ is now known as ousado
1549 2011-03-09 12:52:07 ousado has quit (Changing host)
1550 2011-03-09 12:52:07 ousado has joined
1551 2011-03-09 12:57:54 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1552 2011-03-09 12:57:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112881 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 14 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 28 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76440.78168938
1553 2011-03-09 12:58:05 <JFK911> still not yet
1554 2011-03-09 12:58:11 AmpEater has joined
1555 2011-03-09 12:58:54 TDX_ has joined
1556 2011-03-09 12:59:03 TDX_ is now known as TD2
1557 2011-03-09 13:03:04 farzong has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1558 2011-03-09 13:04:11 altamic has joined
1559 2011-03-09 13:06:34 <xelister> Blitzboom: yes
1560 2011-03-09 13:06:38 <xelister> jrabbit: not sure
1561 2011-03-09 13:06:42 <Blitzboom> what?
1562 2011-03-09 13:06:46 <xelister> erm
1563 2011-03-09 13:06:52 <xelister> BlueMatt :)  but he left
1564 2011-03-09 13:06:57 <Blitzboom> heh, ok
1565 2011-03-09 13:17:32 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1566 2011-03-09 13:20:34 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1567 2011-03-09 13:21:57 gasteve has joined
1568 2011-03-09 13:22:20 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1569 2011-03-09 13:22:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112882 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 13 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 22 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76309.04109589
1570 2011-03-09 13:23:38 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1571 2011-03-09 13:27:47 sc8nt4u has joined
1572 2011-03-09 13:31:22 <slush> ;;bc,stats
1573 2011-03-09 13:31:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112883 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 12 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76318.53294477
1574 2011-03-09 13:31:41 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1575 2011-03-09 13:31:43 <xelister> wonder, if after this, the bitcoin will take us all to the fucking hell =) known as >100k diff
1576 2011-03-09 13:32:19 <sipa> it may even go down next time
1577 2011-03-09 13:32:28 <slush> xelister: Diff >1m is welcome. If btc/usd rate will rise proportionally ;)
1578 2011-03-09 13:32:28 satamusic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1579 2011-03-09 13:32:31 <sc8nt4u> ;;btc;stats
1580 2011-03-09 13:32:32 <gribble> Error: "btc;stats" is not a valid command.
1581 2011-03-09 13:32:39 <xelister> slush: :>
1582 2011-03-09 13:32:42 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1583 2011-03-09 13:32:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112883 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 12 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76318.53294477
1584 2011-03-09 13:32:47 <sc8nt4u> ;;btc,stats
1585 2011-03-09 13:32:47 <gribble> Error: "btc,stats" is not a valid command.
1586 2011-03-09 13:32:54 <sc8nt4u> blag
1587 2011-03-09 13:32:59 <sipa> sc8nt4u: bc, not ntc
1588 2011-03-09 13:33:01 <sipa> *btc
1589 2011-03-09 13:33:06 <xelister> ;; sell 1 kidney for 50000 BTC "you pay for transplant team"
1590 2011-03-09 13:33:07 <gribble> Error: 'for' is not a valid price input.
1591 2011-03-09 13:33:08 <sipa> *fail*
1592 2011-03-09 13:33:11 <xelister> ;; sell 1 kidney 50000 BTC "you pay for transplant team"
1593 2011-03-09 13:33:12 <gribble> Order id 768 created.
1594 2011-03-09 13:33:19 <validus> lol
1595 2011-03-09 13:33:46 <sc8nt4u> someone would take that offer if they were compatible
1596 2011-03-09 13:34:03 <validus> ya they would. those movies that ppl sell organs are based off of something
1597 2011-03-09 13:34:04 <xelister> right I should do genetic testing before =)
1598 2011-03-09 13:34:22 <validus> for the right price id sell a kidney
1599 2011-03-09 13:34:44 <xelister> well fuck that shit,  just take it and place it with not testing, 1 in 100 chances it will just match like a boss
1600 2011-03-09 13:35:35 <xelister> ;; sell 1 my-virginity 1000 BTC btw Im a dude
1601 2011-03-09 13:35:36 <gribble> Order id 769 created.
1602 2011-03-09 13:35:42 * xelister waits for diff 1 m
1603 2011-03-09 13:35:56 BlueMatt has joined
1604 2011-03-09 13:36:26 <xelister> BlueMatt: yeap, i7 with normal kernel... why?  this started suddenly happening. I threw out randomsound deamon and restarted and it seems to improve
1605 2011-03-09 13:36:39 <xelister> BlueMatt: no wait, other box. Some dual cored amd64
1606 2011-03-09 13:38:40 mmarker has joined
1607 2011-03-09 13:38:58 <UukGoblin> xelister, you'd take it up the ass for $900? :-]
1608 2011-03-09 13:38:59 <BlueMatt> xelister: there is a bug with 2.6.35 and x58, no idea if its a dual core
1609 2011-03-09 13:39:24 <xelister> UukGoblin: lol.... I ment with a girl
1610 2011-03-09 13:40:01 <sipa> xelister: better specify
1611 2011-03-09 13:40:01 <BlueMatt> xelister: I just know when 10.10 came out it was ridiculously laggy on my i7 920, which was a bug in 2.6.35.  Once i installed http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.36-maverick/ it was fine
1612 2011-03-09 13:40:05 <xelister> ;; remove 769
1613 2011-03-09 13:40:06 <gribble> Order remove successful, 1 orders removed.
1614 2011-03-09 13:40:07 <xelister> :>
1615 2011-03-09 13:40:19 <xelister> BlueMatt: thanks
1616 2011-03-09 13:42:19 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1617 2011-03-09 13:43:13 <Aciid> oh that reminds me I need to make myself a GPG key
1618 2011-03-09 13:43:29 <xelister> I can make one for you for 0.01 btc
1619 2011-03-09 13:43:32 <xelister> >_>
1620 2011-03-09 13:43:57 <Aciid> hahah
1621 2011-03-09 13:44:27 <BlueMatt> xelister: you owe me 0.01 for tech support ;)
1622 2011-03-09 13:45:11 <Aciid> gpg4win Y U NO MAKE NEW STABLE
1623 2011-03-09 13:45:27 <xelister> BlueMatt: ok I will instead just created gpg key for you, really good, 4096, fell free to use it to encrypt wallet. I may also host diskspace for your encrypted wallet backup
1624 2011-03-09 13:45:52 <xelister> diff Y O NO GO DOWN NOW
1625 2011-03-09 13:45:54 <Aciid> xelister: can I use it to auth my work server SSH's with also?
1626 2011-03-09 13:46:18 <BlueMatt> xelister: yes, I will encrypt my wallet using a key which you happen to have, and store it on your server...smart idea that one
1627 2011-03-09 13:46:39 <Blitzboom> :D
1628 2011-03-09 13:46:47 <BlueMatt> Aciid: ssh uses a different key system than gpg...well different formats pretty much the same math
1629 2011-03-09 13:46:57 <Aciid> oh I forgot that, now I lost all my guru points
1630 2011-03-09 13:47:11 <bxc> the closest you' come is publishing the ssh keyfingerprint somewhere and signing it with your GPG signature
1631 2011-03-09 13:47:13 * xelister cuts Aciid's beard
1632 2011-03-09 13:47:15 <bxc> i think
1633 2011-03-09 13:47:24 <validus> admitting gives you bonus points
1634 2011-03-09 13:47:29 <Aciid> xelister: noo that took me 6months to get to 1,5cm
1635 2011-03-09 13:47:35 <validus> and not to try to keep up a charade of technical terms to make it sound like you know lol
1636 2011-03-09 13:47:44 <bxc> that way people can verify the ssh fingerprint if they have your GPG public key
1637 2011-03-09 13:47:51 <bxc> rather than just blindly saying 'yes'
1638 2011-03-09 13:48:13 <Aciid> fuck passwords, I use port knock
1639 2011-03-09 13:48:15 <Aciid> =D
1640 2011-03-09 13:49:39 <BlueMatt> my password is password, its just as useful
1641 2011-03-09 13:54:17 mmarker has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
1642 2011-03-09 13:55:25 <xelister> I pay BTC for 5 minute bash help (Im too bussy ;)  0.01 BTC or other amount (suggest) - bash script to rename   fooNNNNN_something.otherthing     into    fooMMM_something.otherthing  , where N is some random number like 592341, and MMM will be increasing numbers like 001,002,003,004 - it is number of file after sorting the files alphabetically.  So, sort files alphabetically and raname foo42423_xxxx.yy into foo0001_xxxx.yy and so on
1643 2011-03-09 13:55:44 Necr0s has joined
1644 2011-03-09 13:55:45 <sipa> xelister: use the tool 'rename'
1645 2011-03-09 13:55:55 <validus> he wants it done auto it seems
1646 2011-03-09 13:56:15 <validus> with a ./command but the #'s in sequential order? is that right?
1647 2011-03-09 13:56:17 <xelister> I want to pay for working script instead spend 5 minutes scripting it.  it should be a bash command
1648 2011-03-09 13:57:05 <xelister> validus:   foo4124_xx.yy foo5638_DERP.y foo8321_HERP.y  into  foo001_xx.yy foo002_DERP.y foo003_HERP.y
1649 2011-03-09 13:57:06 <Necr0s> http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-HD-5970-Graphics-Card-Ideal-Games-and-Bitcoin-/300533576645
1650 2011-03-09 13:57:16 <Necr0s> First listing I've seening mentioning bitcoin.
1651 2011-03-09 13:57:50 <validus> the question is how much did he run that overclocked
1652 2011-03-09 13:57:59 <validus> if he is mentioning bitcoin he probably mined at one point also
1653 2011-03-09 13:58:17 <validus> should probably read description first to lol
1654 2011-03-09 13:58:27 <Necr0s> yeah, heh.
1655 2011-03-09 13:58:36 <validus> i dont see why going overseas has anythign todo with it
1656 2011-03-09 13:58:41 <validus> sounds like a sales ploy to sell it
1657 2011-03-09 13:58:41 <Necr0s> Also probably ran the fan a lot.
1658 2011-03-09 13:59:06 AmpEater has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1659 2011-03-09 13:59:08 <validus> unless their not taking their pc at all
1660 2011-03-09 13:59:15 <Necr0s> I had mine at a 70% constant speed until it kaboomed yesterday.
1661 2011-03-09 13:59:41 <validus> ya im debating to overclock whatever i get i know it takes down life considerably
1662 2011-03-09 13:59:44 <Necr0s> Any of you's upgraded to water cooling and wanna sell me your old fan?
1663 2011-03-09 13:59:52 <validus> i was really suprised at ati's tool that tests all of them
1664 2011-03-09 14:00:13 <Necr0s> I really need to get this whole rig into the air conditioned server closet.
1665 2011-03-09 14:00:28 <xelister> sipa or validus: writting it?
1666 2011-03-09 14:00:48 <validus> my old p4 i kept the front of the case and the side off to help with cooling. was an old office pc and totally garbage on air flow
1667 2011-03-09 14:00:54 <validus> hdds would raise 10 - 20 degrees with front panel on
1668 2011-03-09 14:00:58 <validus> xelister: im not
1669 2011-03-09 14:01:03 <Necr0s> heh
1670 2011-03-09 14:01:10 <sipa> xelister: neither am i
1671 2011-03-09 14:01:41 <validus> if anything i wish i had btc to offer up on this tcl i have to reconfigure
1672 2011-03-09 14:01:42 <validus> lol
1673 2011-03-09 14:02:05 <validus> theres somem weird error with centos and compiling lftp with ssl support to cause it to seg fault but installs through yum with no ssl support just fine
1674 2011-03-09 14:02:21 <validus> and i had it working on one version of centos so im not sure what is causing it
1675 2011-03-09 14:02:29 <validus> ive tried 3 different boxes so far
1676 2011-03-09 14:04:47 <Necr0s> Maybe you can use strace to see what happens right before it dies.
1677 2011-03-09 14:05:59 <eps1> or gdb
1678 2011-03-09 14:14:00 sabalaba has joined
1679 2011-03-09 14:14:48 <validus> its worth a shot i would assume cant find anything in the core dump
1680 2011-03-09 14:14:50 <validus> forums. nodda
1681 2011-03-09 14:14:54 <validus> it has me completely boggled
1682 2011-03-09 14:21:12 mmarker has joined
1683 2011-03-09 14:23:59 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1684 2011-03-09 14:24:21 <Necr0s> Watch it be something dumb, like a lack of write permission to /dev/zero.
1685 2011-03-09 14:24:27 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1686 2011-03-09 14:24:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112888 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 7 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 44 minutes and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76292.77484678
1687 2011-03-09 14:24:57 <eps1> how accurate is that difficulty time change estimate?
1688 2011-03-09 14:25:41 <sipa> currently? very accurate
1689 2011-03-09 14:36:05 <mmarker> We'll see how the difficulty jumps...but that number should be pretty well set now, correct?
1690 2011-03-09 14:36:19 <sipa> yes
1691 2011-03-09 14:37:55 <mmarker> Nice +30% jump. Wont this be another one of the highest %age jumps in Bitocin history?
1692 2011-03-09 14:38:02 <ArtForz> nope
1693 2011-03-09 14:38:12 <mmarker> ArtForz: Average?
1694 2011-03-09 14:38:19 <ArtForz> pretty much
1695 2011-03-09 14:38:34 <ArtForz> should be the biggest absolute jump so far though
1696 2011-03-09 14:39:22 <mmarker> ArtForz: Yea. If hardware hashing efficienct hasn't changed drastically, this really shows more people are in the game, active in the network, no?
1697 2011-03-09 14:39:56 <ArtForz> well... depends
1698 2011-03-09 14:40:06 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-10k.png
1699 2011-03-09 14:40:22 <eps1> could just be people scaling up their mining rigs
1700 2011-03-09 14:40:34 <ArtForz> well, that and the MM
1701 2011-03-09 14:41:04 <mmarker> Hmm, lemme rephrase this:
1702 2011-03-09 14:41:30 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1703 2011-03-09 14:41:30 <ArtForz> wonder if we'll see another +-200Gh/s jump this weekend
1704 2011-03-09 14:41:39 <mmarker> If the hardware hasn't magically gotten more efficient at solving the problem, the increase in difficulty is due to more machines solving blocks
1705 2011-03-09 14:41:44 <ArtForz> yep
1706 2011-03-09 14:42:02 <sipa> or relatively more efficient machines
1707 2011-03-09 14:42:18 <mmarker> sipa: See my first assumption :D
1708 2011-03-09 14:42:22 <eps1> fascinating, it can't go on forever can it?
1709 2011-03-09 14:42:37 <ArtForz> not really
1710 2011-03-09 14:42:41 <sipa> mmarker: even with that assumption, some people have more efficient hardware than others
1711 2011-03-09 14:42:44 <mmarker> eps1: It could if more people join in, or hardware gets better
1712 2011-03-09 14:43:15 <ArtForz> more people doesnt matter really
1713 2011-03-09 14:44:49 <ArtForz> more efficient hardware does, but so far it doesnt look like GPUs will provide that in the short term
1714 2011-03-09 14:45:11 <mmarker> ArtForz: Agreed there.
1715 2011-03-09 14:45:22 <eps1> ArtForz: how are your custom hashing chips coming along?
1716 2011-03-09 14:45:45 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1717 2011-03-09 14:45:46 <ArtForz> still having issues with shit desyncing
1718 2011-03-09 14:47:12 <ArtForz> works pretty well overall, average every 2-3 hours chip starts returning garbage, resetting it fixes it
1719 2011-03-09 14:47:25 tower has joined
1720 2011-03-09 14:48:08 <eps1> what kind of hashing power does a single chip give? or is that sensitive information ;)
1721 2011-03-09 14:48:13 <ArtForz> 200Mhps
1722 2011-03-09 14:48:32 <mmarker> ArtForz: respectable. What's the power draw?
1723 2011-03-09 14:48:40 <eps1> and how does the cost compare to say a 5770?
1724 2011-03-09 14:48:47 <ArtForz> not very favourably
1725 2011-03-09 14:49:43 <ArtForz> for components alone i't about 1.5x the $/Mhps of a 5970
1726 2011-03-09 14:50:01 tower is now known as towerX
1727 2011-03-09 14:53:07 <ArtForz> backplane PCBs for the last 32 chips will have a different clock tree, hopefully that'll fix the "chip starts returning garbage" issue
1728 2011-03-09 14:53:40 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1729 2011-03-09 14:54:36 <molecular> so you got 4 modules done?
1730 2011-03-09 14:54:50 <ArtForz> 8 modules @ 8 chips
1731 2011-03-09 14:54:55 <ArtForz> = 2 2Us
1732 2011-03-09 14:54:59 <molecular> ah
1733 2011-03-09 14:55:00 <mmarker> ArtForz: Wow.
1734 2011-03-09 14:55:06 <ArtForz> clock integrity on the current design is fucking awful
1735 2011-03-09 14:57:55 <molecular> even if the initial cost is 2.5 times that of 5970, with that awesome power-efficiency, it will soon make sense.
1736 2011-03-09 14:58:38 <ArtForz> well, my calc says it takes ~20 months to pay for the price difference at $0.1/kWh
1737 2011-03-09 14:58:50 <ArtForz> and thats ignoring GPUs have resale value
1738 2011-03-09 14:59:24 <mmarker> ArtForz: I'm assuming the HW is just dedicated SHA256 units.
1739 2011-03-09 14:59:30 <molecular> why are you calculating such a low power cost?
1740 2011-03-09 14:59:57 <molecular> I pay more like $0.3/kwh here
1741 2011-03-09 15:00:02 <ArtForz> because GPU miners tend to pop up where power is cheap
1742 2011-03-09 15:00:15 <eps1> maybe he has hooked into the nextdoor neighbours power lines ;)
1743 2011-03-09 15:00:24 <mmarker> molecular: That's rough US KW costs in many areas, on average
1744 2011-03-09 15:00:24 <molecular> ok, let me rephrase: "will soon make sense in high-power-cost regions"
1745 2011-03-09 15:00:31 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1746 2011-03-09 15:00:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112894 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 minutes and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76262.97139407
1747 2011-03-09 15:00:38 <mmarker> so really worst-case econimic estimate
1748 2011-03-09 15:01:00 <ArtForz> well, running a mainer with high power cost is always a bad idea
1749 2011-03-09 15:01:06 <mmarker> Of course if the energy cost is higher, the economics become more favorable.
1750 2011-03-09 15:01:14 larsivi has joined
1751 2011-03-09 15:01:39 zylche has joined
1752 2011-03-09 15:02:16 <molecular> ArtForz, still, people do it. and if it makes sense for someone to switch to something like your solution, it's these people first
1753 2011-03-09 15:02:41 <xelister> [Tycho]: can't you organize some power plant for us
1754 2011-03-09 15:02:46 <xelister> like from old nuclear submarine
1755 2011-03-09 15:03:03 <xelister> buy lots of vodka and go to sea army base =)
1756 2011-03-09 15:03:27 <mmarker> xelister: Nuclear works well, but can get messy.
1757 2011-03-09 15:03:27 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
1758 2011-03-09 15:03:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112894 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 minutes and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76262.97139407
1759 2011-03-09 15:03:49 <mmarker> xelister: We need a secret volcano lair...
1760 2011-03-09 15:04:02 <eps1> it would be great if bitcoin led to a cheap renewable source of electricity
1761 2011-03-09 15:04:50 <eps1> ArtForz: you should move to the coast and start cracking seawater for hydrogen
1762 2011-03-09 15:06:39 <mmarker> Ugh. Lots of energy there. The volcano lair idea is cool because  of a) cheap geothermal and b) SECRET VOLCANO LAIR
1763 2011-03-09 15:07:17 <eps1> heh, ok im in
1764 2011-03-09 15:07:22 <eps1> where is this lair?
1765 2011-03-09 15:09:13 <mmarker> eps1: Best place is probably around the Ring of Fire
1766 2011-03-09 15:09:22 <mmarker> so you're looking Pacific.
1767 2011-03-09 15:09:28 <mmarker> remote
1768 2011-03-09 15:09:55 <eps1> i wonder how well bitcoin works over a sattelite internet connection
1769 2011-03-09 15:10:17 <eps1> ;; bc,stats
1770 2011-03-09 15:10:19 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112894 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 minutes and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76262.97139407
1771 2011-03-09 15:10:21 <mmarker> eps1: No idea on the BW requirements.
1772 2011-03-09 15:11:43 <[Tycho]> xelister, my power is cheap already. ~$0.02 per kW*h at night
1773 2011-03-09 15:12:01 <Aciid> oh cmon
1774 2011-03-09 15:12:05 <Aciid> change already
1775 2011-03-09 15:12:50 Zarutian has joined
1776 2011-03-09 15:13:13 <[Tycho]> Finally we finished work on Long Polling :)
1777 2011-03-09 15:13:23 <[Tycho]> Will deploy it at night.
1778 2011-03-09 15:14:20 <Aciid> ;;bc,stats
1779 2011-03-09 15:14:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112894 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 minutes and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76262.97139407
1780 2011-03-09 15:14:24 <mmarker> Tycho: Long polling?
1781 2011-03-09 15:14:34 <UukGoblin> yeah, Long Polling?
1782 2011-03-09 15:14:45 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1783 2011-03-09 15:14:45 <[Tycho]> eps1, you would need lots of power to break up water :)
1784 2011-03-09 15:14:46 <UukGoblin> heh it's been 6 minutes 23 seconds for 4 minutes now
1785 2011-03-09 15:15:05 <mmarker> That H-O bond is very, very strong in water.
1786 2011-03-09 15:15:42 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1787 2011-03-09 15:16:06 <UukGoblin> Hey H-O, Hey H-O
1788 2011-03-09 15:16:22 <Aciid>  Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks
1789 2011-03-09 15:16:25 <Aciid> waiting....
1790 2011-03-09 15:16:27 <[Tycho]> "<mmarker> xelister: Nuclear works well, but can get messy" - usually it's perfectly clean. Well, except for that place when they dump parts of old nuclear subs.
1791 2011-03-09 15:16:39 <mmarker> Little Timmy is no more, for what he thought was H2O, was really H2SO4.
1792 2011-03-09 15:16:57 <UukGoblin> [Tycho], or except in Chernobyl
1793 2011-03-09 15:16:59 <mmarker> Tycho: plus fuel exchange, which you'll need to do at some point.
1794 2011-03-09 15:17:12 <mmarker> That's always the tricky bit
1795 2011-03-09 15:17:29 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1796 2011-03-09 15:17:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112895 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76192.61934751
1797 2011-03-09 15:17:36 <Aciid> wooo
1798 2011-03-09 15:17:42 <UukGoblin> it's broken
1799 2011-03-09 15:17:46 <Aciid> fc
1800 2011-03-09 15:17:50 <mmarker> gotta wait for one more block?
1801 2011-03-09 15:17:56 <UukGoblin> yeah
1802 2011-03-09 15:17:58 <Aciid> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000037bb3ff4cf649a1757d4028ecc10f893529b4a2214792c981f96
1803 2011-03-09 15:18:01 <[Tycho]> UukGoblin, they have great nature reserve there :)
1804 2011-03-09 15:18:14 <Aciid> last 55590
1805 2011-03-09 15:18:47 <[Tycho]> And that reactor has a bug.
1806 2011-03-09 15:19:02 <[Tycho]> People do make mistakes.
1807 2011-03-09 15:19:19 <mmarker> "a bug"? Try a few.
1808 2011-03-09 15:19:27 <UukGoblin> well they fortunately shut it down...
1809 2011-03-09 15:19:49 <[Tycho]> The bug was in emergency shutdown procedure.
1810 2011-03-09 15:19:55 <UukGoblin> in 2000 or something
1811 2011-03-09 15:19:59 <mmarker> UukGoblin: the RMBK design, once you start looking at it, is a real "OMG, you RAN THIS THING? and it DIDN'T BLOW UP"
1812 2011-03-09 15:20:03 <[Tycho]> So yes, they did.
1813 2011-03-09 15:20:32 <mmarker> Tycho: there were some other fundamental issues in the design that made the shutdown procedure naturally worse.
1814 2011-03-09 15:21:06 <UukGoblin> mmarker, correction - IT DID!
1815 2011-03-09 15:21:39 <mmarker> UukGoblin: Very true.
1816 2011-03-09 15:21:43 <[Tycho]> Why they closed the entire plant now, would have continue generating clean power.
1817 2011-03-09 15:21:47 <eps1> nah the design is fine, you are just spouting filthy american pigdog capitalist propaganda ;)
1818 2011-03-09 15:22:15 <[Tycho]> eps1, design of control rods wasn't fine. It's a fact.
1819 2011-03-09 15:22:18 <validus> so much anti usa lol
1820 2011-03-09 15:22:37 <validus> have fun paying your jacked up power bill in your country. hows that one :P and i meant that sarcastic and jokingly in a way
1821 2011-03-09 15:22:55 <eps1> i was joking, i am not familiar with the design of nuclear power plants
1822 2011-03-09 15:23:09 <mmarker> eps1: and the use of graphite as a moderator and running atmospheric wasn't the brightest idea. Good for pulling out the plutonium quickly...but not so great if all the water boils at once.
1823 2011-03-09 15:23:13 <eps1> and i am not russian either
1824 2011-03-09 15:23:18 <validus> ya i was being more of a smartass thats hwy i added sarcastic but it is true some countries screw ppl hardcore on power
1825 2011-03-09 15:23:24 <UukGoblin> eps1, you dummy, we learned that in primary school
1826 2011-03-09 15:23:33 <eps1> heh
1827 2011-03-09 15:23:41 <validus> dummy i think is from primary school
1828 2011-03-09 15:23:42 <validus> lol
1829 2011-03-09 15:23:54 <mmarker> Damn. I was in primary school when it happened.
1830 2011-03-09 15:24:18 <UukGoblin> I was probably in a pram or something
1831 2011-03-09 15:24:36 <[Tycho]> We are learning about nuclear reactors only in 9th grade...
1832 2011-03-09 15:24:52 <UukGoblin> [Tycho], that was a joke ;-]
1833 2011-03-09 15:25:37 <[Tycho]> Bad thing is that most people still don't know what exactly is dangerous and what is not.
1834 2011-03-09 15:25:42 <mmarker> Tycho: my grad work got me into fine places such as Argonne National Lab and NIST's nuclear reactor in MD...so I kinda got lessons in nuclear technology and safety.
1835 2011-03-09 15:26:09 <mmarker> I loved the one room where the shielding was stacks and stacks of block candle wax
1836 2011-03-09 15:26:45 <xelister> mmarker: I almost made a mini chernobyl in my computer recently
1837 2011-03-09 15:27:09 <[Tycho]> Wasn't it polyethylene ?
1838 2011-03-09 15:27:16 <xelister> set_fanspeed 70     *all gest nice and quieter*            *all goes totally silent*             *scary silence*
1839 2011-03-09 15:27:16 <[Tycho]> White blocks of it
1840 2011-03-09 15:27:20 dwdollar has left ()
1841 2011-03-09 15:27:34 <xelister> 1 second... 2 seconds... 3 seconds....  *hmm, wait*  *checks something*
1842 2011-03-09 15:27:39 <Aciid> =D
1843 2011-03-09 15:27:44 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1844 2011-03-09 15:27:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112895 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76192.61934751
1845 2011-03-09 15:27:54 <xelister> '$0' evaluates to not 70 but 0 .... fan speed is 0?         *checks temp*    95 C
1846 2011-03-09 15:27:57 <xelister> oh shi 95 C.
1847 2011-03-09 15:27:58 slush has joined
1848 2011-03-09 15:28:12 <Aciid> xelister: what , doesn't it crash at 95%?
1849 2011-03-09 15:28:13 <Aciid> *c
1850 2011-03-09 15:28:33 <UukGoblin> ooh, scripted fan control - fun
1851 2011-03-09 15:28:33 <mmarker> tycho: For the shielding? Nope...paraffin wax. Higher density and more H, so it scatters and slows down neutrons effectively. (all my work was using thermal neutrons..so the radiation risk wasn't THAT bad)
1852 2011-03-09 15:28:40 <UukGoblin> bound to go wrong at some point ;-]
1853 2011-03-09 15:28:42 <xelister> Aciid: worked long enough to let me do a calma AAAAAAAAAAAYEEE *typetype* *ENTER*  and fix it =)
1854 2011-03-09 15:29:05 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
1855 2011-03-09 15:29:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112895 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76192.61934751
1856 2011-03-09 15:29:13 <luke-jr> crap, missed it
1857 2011-03-09 15:29:17 <UukGoblin> yeah ;;bc,stats is broken at the difficulty-block
1858 2011-03-09 15:29:22 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, not yet! :-]
1859 2011-03-09 15:29:28 <luke-jr> no?
1860 2011-03-09 15:29:31 <Aciid> I have a stupid gaming motherboard, I could setup my netbook as a temperature monitor on my wall.
1861 2011-03-09 15:29:34 <UukGoblin> no, gribble's broken
1862 2011-03-09 15:29:37 <Aciid> uses USB to deliver stats
1863 2011-03-09 15:29:41 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, difficulty will be set at next block
1864 2011-03-09 15:29:46 <luke-jr> then gribble is right
1865 2011-03-09 15:29:50 <[Tycho]> mmarker, well, it's used too. http://www.deqtech.com/Shieldwerx/poly_neutron.htm
1866 2011-03-09 15:30:10 <mmarker> Tycho: Oh, that stuff was used as well
1867 2011-03-09 15:30:28 <mmarker> Have to understand, the facility at Argonne...parts of it dated back to the 50's :D
1868 2011-03-09 15:30:39 <xelister> NEXT DIFFICULTY IN 0 BLOCKS
1869 2011-03-09 15:30:40 <Necr0s> I have a brick of wax here somewhere...
1870 2011-03-09 15:30:51 <[Tycho]> Those at the end of page pay look like white paraffin.
1871 2011-03-09 15:31:00 <mmarker> The 30MW nuclear reactor at NIST was a proper job. Pressure containment vessel, concrete everywhere, etc.
1872 2011-03-09 15:31:09 <luke-jr> xelister: surely you don't index your arrays at 1?
1873 2011-03-09 15:31:16 <slush> ;;bc,stats
1874 2011-03-09 15:31:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112895 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 76192.61934751
1875 2011-03-09 15:31:19 <xelister> luke-jr: nope
1876 2011-03-09 15:31:26 <Necr0s> You're talking about Chernobyl?
1877 2011-03-09 15:31:36 <[Tycho]> We are talking about wax :)
1878 2011-03-09 15:31:47 <UukGoblin> we're talking about sex, but we disguise it
1879 2011-03-09 15:31:47 <Aciid> waxing
1880 2011-03-09 15:31:57 <luke-jr> #bitcoin-watch
1881 2011-03-09 15:32:03 <[Tycho]> Well, polyethylene too.
1882 2011-03-09 15:32:09 <[Tycho]> #bitcoin-wax ?
1883 2011-03-09 15:32:33 <xelister> aaw. I lost the graph of 5970 going to 95 C
1884 2011-03-09 15:32:42 <xelister> perhaps I should repeat it to make the graph again =)
1885 2011-03-09 15:32:43 <slush> looks like pool's block was the last with 55k diff
1886 2011-03-09 15:32:49 <Aciid> xelister: screenshot
1887 2011-03-09 15:32:52 <Aciid> is a nice key
1888 2011-03-09 15:32:54 <Aciid> printscreen
1889 2011-03-09 15:33:03 <xelister> not when your Cypress is on fire
1890 2011-03-09 15:33:14 <[Tycho]> Some years ago there was a LOT of synthetic ruby from one dismantlet USA lab :)
1891 2011-03-09 15:33:26 <[Tycho]> *d
1892 2011-03-09 15:33:30 <luke-jr> slush: there's one more
1893 2011-03-09 15:33:51 <slush> luke-jr it is not in block explorer yet
1894 2011-03-09 15:34:01 <luke-jr> slush: it is not in -watch yet either
1895 2011-03-09 15:34:07 <Aciid> fans at 60%
1896 2011-03-09 15:34:11 <Aciid> jesus they make sound
1897 2011-03-09 15:34:12 <luke-jr> which means I can still find one and beat you
1898 2011-03-09 15:34:13 BlueMatt has joined
1899 2011-03-09 15:34:13 <luke-jr> maybe
1900 2011-03-09 15:34:13 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1901 2011-03-09 15:34:13 BlueMatt has joined
1902 2011-03-09 15:34:18 <Aciid> 6xxx fans
1903 2011-03-09 15:34:25 <slush> :)
1904 2011-03-09 15:34:33 <xelister> Aciid: 5xxx first goes to 100% then lowers, when you do hand-adjustment
1905 2011-03-09 15:34:43 <xelister> Aciid: it sounds like if the PC is going to take off
1906 2011-03-09 15:34:58 <Aciid> afterburner goes to 100% on startup then to userdefined
1907 2011-03-09 15:35:00 <Aciid> >.>
1908 2011-03-09 15:35:04 <xelister> Aciid: hint, normally, 5xxx fans run at 30% speed (and like 10% noise), you can get much faster by tools =)
1909 2011-03-09 15:35:09 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1910 2011-03-09 15:35:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112896 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 304770.47739005
1911 2011-03-09 15:35:21 <UukGoblin> hahah mental
1912 2011-03-09 15:35:23 <luke-jr> aww, slush's block hit -watch
1913 2011-03-09 15:35:28 <xelister> LOOOOOOOOOOOL
1914 2011-03-09 15:35:32 <[Tycho]> 5870 fan speed is controlled instantly, but 5970 gains speed slowly. May be this way they fixed problem with scaring the user.
1915 2011-03-09 15:35:36 * xelister panicks
1916 2011-03-09 15:35:47 <xelister> 304,770 estimated diff.  SHOOOP DA WOOP
1917 2011-03-09 15:35:50 <luke-jr> WTF
1918 2011-03-09 15:35:55 <[Tycho]> Oh, 300 000, do not want !
1919 2011-03-09 15:35:56 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 304770
1920 2011-03-09 15:35:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 304770, is 8 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 36 seconds
1921 2011-03-09 15:35:59 <mmarker> That first point is always bad
1922 2011-03-09 15:36:04 <mmarker> Sheesh
1923 2011-03-09 15:36:05 <xelister> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOl.
1924 2011-03-09 15:36:10 <luke-jr> please shut off your mining rigs
1925 2011-03-09 15:36:17 <UukGoblin> yeah, SHUT THEM NOW
1926 2011-03-09 15:36:31 <UukGoblin> face it, you can't afford them anymore
1927 2011-03-09 15:36:39 <BlueMatt> and there goes my mining efficiency
1928 2011-03-09 15:36:40 <Aciid> i wonder how calm it would look if all pools would close for 6hours
1929 2011-03-09 15:36:42 <UukGoblin> just let me do the generation...
1930 2011-03-09 15:36:59 <luke-jr> Aciid: let's DDoS slush?
1931 2011-03-09 15:37:12 * Aciid calls up the polish skiddies
1932 2011-03-09 15:37:14 <xelister> haha what will you do if the next diff eventually changs, and is not 300 K... but 800 k ? :D :D
1933 2011-03-09 15:37:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: now thats just mean...Im game
1934 2011-03-09 15:37:24 neubie has joined
1935 2011-03-09 15:37:29 <luke-jr> lol
1936 2011-03-09 15:37:45 <slush> luke-jr lol, the first 76k block is also from pool
1937 2011-03-09 15:37:49 <neubie> anybody out there?
1938 2011-03-09 15:37:52 * slush won the battle
1939 2011-03-09 15:37:54 <luke-jr> slush: your fate is sealed.
1940 2011-03-09 15:37:55 <xelister> neubie: ye
1941 2011-03-09 15:37:58 <sipa> slush: congrats!
1942 2011-03-09 15:38:19 <xelister> lets nuke slush =)
1943 2011-03-09 15:38:32 <Aciid> hmm how many kg can a 5xxx/6xxx card support?
1944 2011-03-09 15:38:36 <luke-jr> anyone got BGP access to the net?
1945 2011-03-09 15:38:39 <neubie> Just got out of the faucet, havn't seen my .50 bc yet. what gives?
1946 2011-03-09 15:38:40 <Aciid> if I hook a custom copper block on it?
1947 2011-03-09 15:38:41 <luke-jr> null route slush's IP plz
1948 2011-03-09 15:38:45 <xelister> ha diff 300 k is so mental (even just as error)
1949 2011-03-09 15:38:57 <luke-jr> neubie: you mean .05
1950 2011-03-09 15:39:02 <sipa> graphs updated :)
1951 2011-03-09 15:39:10 <luke-jr> neubie: how many blocks have you downloaded?
1952 2011-03-09 15:39:13 <luke-jr> sipa: link!
1953 2011-03-09 15:39:45 <neubie> well, havn't seen that either. 111000 blocks. how does this work?
1954 2011-03-09 15:39:51 <slush> sipa: looks like current difficulty is slightly above real network power, right?
1955 2011-03-09 15:40:01 <luke-jr> ;;bc,blocks
1956 2011-03-09 15:40:02 <gribble> 112896
1957 2011-03-09 15:40:09 <luke-jr> neubie: gotta wait until you have that many
1958 2011-03-09 15:40:37 <neubie> ok. Thanks!!
1959 2011-03-09 15:40:48 <slush> luke-jr http://bitcoin.sipa.be
1960 2011-03-09 15:41:10 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
1961 2011-03-09 15:41:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112896 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 304770.47739005
1962 2011-03-09 15:41:30 <xelister> I say next diff will be 90k
1963 2011-03-09 15:41:35 <xelister> or 100
1964 2011-03-09 15:41:45 <UukGoblin> well make up your mind, it's a difference ;-P
1965 2011-03-09 15:41:48 sabalaba has joined
1966 2011-03-09 15:42:31 <xelister> it will cross 100.
1967 2011-03-09 15:42:59 <BlueMatt> whats with the big drop off in power in the past couple days
1968 2011-03-09 15:43:07 <xelister> and then we all miners can go like, sha la la lalalala, sha lalalalala *gets drunk*  *moves under a bridge*
1969 2011-03-09 15:43:33 <UukGoblin> xelister, ok
1970 2011-03-09 15:43:40 <UukGoblin> xelister, and you'll pay me 100BTC if it doesn't
1971 2011-03-09 15:43:41 <Necr0s> 250k in March ain't happenin.
1972 2011-03-09 15:43:49 <xelister> UukGoblin: lol why =)
1973 2011-03-09 15:43:50 <neubie> luke-jr once I get my 112000 blocks, will my future transactions go through faster?
1974 2011-03-09 15:44:02 <UukGoblin> xelister, to ackowledge that you were wrong
1975 2011-03-09 15:44:07 <xelister> heh
1976 2011-03-09 15:44:16 <xelister> UukGoblin: I can play russian rullete with you for 5 =)
1977 2011-03-09 15:44:32 <luke-jr> neubie: somewhat.
1978 2011-03-09 15:44:40 <luke-jr> neubie: about the fastest you can confirm a tx, is an hour
1979 2011-03-09 15:44:42 <BlueMatt> woo #bitcoin-roulette
1980 2011-03-09 15:45:22 <luke-jr> neubie: but they usually show up within a minute
1981 2011-03-09 15:45:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: #yandere
1982 2011-03-09 15:45:46 <neubie> cool. Thanks, bro-!
1983 2011-03-09 15:46:25 <sipa> slush: yup, quite sure we'll have avg >10min block intervals for now
1984 2011-03-09 15:47:20 <nanotube> sipa: only if MM doesn't come back.
1985 2011-03-09 15:49:02 <sipa> hence "for now"
1986 2011-03-09 15:49:10 <sipa> :)
1987 2011-03-09 15:50:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: would play, but it looks way to complicated
1988 2011-03-09 15:50:21 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1989 2011-03-09 15:50:23 <luke-jr> lol
1990 2011-03-09 15:50:28 <UukGoblin> xelister, I could /perhaps/ /maybe/ play poker for BTC
1991 2011-03-09 15:50:32 <UukGoblin> but low value and not now
1992 2011-03-09 15:50:46 <BlueMatt> anyone have a btc-based poker site yet?
1993 2011-03-09 15:50:58 <UukGoblin> yes there was betco.in
1994 2011-03-09 15:50:59 * luke-jr wonders how many players he'd get in #yandere if he offered a 1 BTC prize to be split amongst the winner(s)
1995 2011-03-09 15:51:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: if it was as simple a game as roulette, I would...
1996 2011-03-09 15:52:08 <Necr0s> I like poker.
1997 2011-03-09 15:52:23 <xelister> po po po po poker
1998 2011-03-09 15:52:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: roulette takes no skill
1999 2011-03-09 15:52:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so?
2000 2011-03-09 15:53:03 <Necr0s> russian roulette
2001 2011-03-09 15:53:21 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: yea, you type @roulette till you get kicked from #bitcoin-roulette
2002 2011-03-09 15:53:26 <xelister> russian roulette irl takes lots of balls =)
2003 2011-03-09 15:53:40 <UukGoblin> xelister, not really, just 1
2004 2011-03-09 15:53:53 <BlueMatt> and 1 life...
2005 2011-03-09 15:53:56 <Necr0s> vodka helps
2006 2011-03-09 15:54:16 <xelister> I HAVE IDEA FOR RUSSIAN ROULETTE
2007 2011-03-09 15:54:19 <xelister> that takes BIG BALLS
2008 2011-03-09 15:54:33 <xelister> and that is not random / has a skill-like quality =)
2009 2011-03-09 15:54:44 <xelister> (but it needs irl / judges ;)
2010 2011-03-09 15:54:52 <UukGoblin> hm
2011 2011-03-09 15:55:01 <UukGoblin> launch a nuke and see who shoots it first
2012 2011-03-09 15:55:05 <UukGoblin> OR
2013 2011-03-09 15:55:09 <BlueMatt> xelister: sounds to complicated
2014 2011-03-09 15:55:11 <UukGoblin> I have a better idea
2015 2011-03-09 15:55:12 <xelister> overclock your 5970 to 800. Set fan to 0.  The computer that stays on IRC longest wins =)
2016 2011-03-09 15:55:26 <BlueMatt> lol
2017 2011-03-09 15:55:40 <xelister> fire extinguisher advisable
2018 2011-03-09 15:55:43 <Necr0s> 6990s today.
2019 2011-03-09 15:55:47 <neubie> WOOHOO!!!  made .05 bitcoin from faucet! I'll just take my wad and leave you folks to your business. Thanks again!
2020 2011-03-09 15:56:11 <UukGoblin> neubie, congrats you're rich now
2021 2011-03-09 15:56:14 <[Tycho]> Hmm, people didn't stopped mining. They somehow gained MORE speed in my pool.
2022 2011-03-09 15:56:31 <neubie> yeayuh!
2023 2011-03-09 15:56:34 <luke-jr> neubie: want to buy more?
2024 2011-03-09 15:56:41 <tcatm> depends on ping timeouts ;) a 5970 will recover after ~15mins after freezing the system
2025 2011-03-09 15:56:53 <xelister> more bold version
2026 2011-03-09 15:57:01 <xelister> buy 8 x 5970 cluster
2027 2011-03-09 15:57:06 <xelister> connect it in your home
2028 2011-03-09 15:57:13 <xelister> replace 16 A breaker with a copper wire
2029 2011-03-09 15:57:19 <UukGoblin> lol
2030 2011-03-09 15:57:22 <xelister> person that stays in his hime the longest wins
2031 2011-03-09 15:57:28 <xelister> person that stays in his home the longest wins
2032 2011-03-09 15:57:38 <neubie> I'll get around to it. Gonna go "explore possibilities"...do some brainstormin', ya know?
2033 2011-03-09 15:57:41 <luke-jr> so are we officially beyond the point where building mining rigs is sensible?
2034 2011-03-09 15:57:49 <tcatm> luke-jr: nope
2035 2011-03-09 15:57:55 <UukGoblin> killall java; sit --for --as --long --as --it --takes
2036 2011-03-09 15:58:12 <validus> lol you think you can remove java from everything???
2037 2011-03-09 15:58:19 <validus> java is used in more stuff than i think you realize :P
2038 2011-03-09 15:58:23 <neubie> c'ya!
2039 2011-03-09 15:58:27 neubie has left ()
2040 2011-03-09 15:58:29 <luke-jr> tcatm: I don't mean running, I mean building new
2041 2011-03-09 15:58:33 <BlueMatt> my ps aux | grep java: DiabloMiner, thats it
2042 2011-03-09 15:58:36 <UukGoblin> validus, the only java process on my mining boxes is the DiabloMiner
2043 2011-03-09 15:58:41 <luke-jr> validus: uh, no
2044 2011-03-09 15:58:46 <validus> dont start luke
2045 2011-03-09 15:58:48 <luke-jr> validus: I never even install Java anymore
2046 2011-03-09 15:58:52 <validus> you have nothing to back up just look it up
2047 2011-03-09 15:58:59 <validus> its in cars, almost all electronics, ftp servers
2048 2011-03-09 15:59:00 <luke-jr> …
2049 2011-03-09 15:59:02 <tcatm> luke-jr: could take a year to break even, but it would still work
2050 2011-03-09 15:59:04 <validus> tons and tons
2051 2011-03-09 15:59:16 <luke-jr> validus: I meant computers
2052 2011-03-09 15:59:22 <UukGoblin> java in cars?
2053 2011-03-09 15:59:25 <validus> used in more programs than you think to
2054 2011-03-09 15:59:34 <luke-jr> tcatm: you are considering difficulty changes over the next year?
2055 2011-03-09 15:59:35 <UukGoblin> we're all doomed!
2056 2011-03-09 15:59:37 <validus> you be suprised how many ppl dont know drftpd is java and it works great
2057 2011-03-09 15:59:45 <luke-jr> validus: FTP is obsolete
2058 2011-03-09 15:59:49 <validus> right
2059 2011-03-09 15:59:52 <validus> keep believing that
2060 2011-03-09 15:59:53 <validus> lol
2061 2011-03-09 15:59:55 <luke-jr> and who's ever heard of drftpd?
2062 2011-03-09 16:00:07 <UukGoblin> almost all electronics? it's not on my pandora!
2063 2011-03-09 16:00:20 <validus> im not going to argue this with you
2064 2011-03-09 16:00:22 <validus> believe what you want
2065 2011-03-09 16:00:23 <UukGoblin> and it's on my phone against my will
2066 2011-03-09 16:00:35 <BlueMatt> anyone heard of android...its apps are dalvik-programmed in java, compiled to a similar file
2067 2011-03-09 16:00:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: which is why I avoid Android
2068 2011-03-09 16:01:03 <UukGoblin> android hit the headlines today
2069 2011-03-09 16:01:08 <validus> bluematt thats why he buys iphones
2070 2011-03-09 16:01:16 <validus> the way of the future right there
2071 2011-03-09 16:01:24 <UukGoblin> http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/857573-hacking-alert-on-google-phones-as-apps-deleted-without-user-knowledge
2072 2011-03-09 16:01:25 <BlueMatt> lol
2073 2011-03-09 16:01:33 <luke-jr> I don't buy phones.
2074 2011-03-09 16:01:43 <validus> oh i forgot he telepathicly sends morse code
2075 2011-03-09 16:01:45 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: yea, old androids are unsecure and shit
2076 2011-03-09 16:01:55 <BlueMatt> validus: you dont?
2077 2011-03-09 16:01:56 <luke-jr> I just use a softphone on my computer
2078 2011-03-09 16:01:58 <xelister> UukGoblin: java is not that bad =)
2079 2011-03-09 16:02:32 <UukGoblin> xelister, what I keep hearing: the /JVM/ itself isn't that bad... the language is horrible
2080 2011-03-09 16:02:41 <UukGoblin> (I even heard that from a Java dev team manager)
2081 2011-03-09 16:02:50 <xelister> UukGoblin: what is terrible about it?
2082 2011-03-09 16:02:57 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: except the JVM is pointless
2083 2011-03-09 16:03:11 <xelister> luke-jr: well it is portable
2084 2011-03-09 16:03:12 <luke-jr> at least the language can be compiled to native bytecode
2085 2011-03-09 16:03:12 <Necr0s> I always thought java was considered a pretty well structured language.
2086 2011-03-09 16:03:26 <luke-jr> xelister: binaries shouldn't be portable.
2087 2011-03-09 16:03:28 <UukGoblin> xelister, the syntax I guess
2088 2011-03-09 16:03:31 <xelister> luke-jr: why not
2089 2011-03-09 16:03:38 <Necr0s> I mean, consider it beside Perl, and tell me which looks like it was made for OO.
2090 2011-03-09 16:03:42 <luke-jr> xelister: because that means it's inherently inefficient
2091 2011-03-09 16:03:44 <xelister> UukGoblin: well.. close to C++ and other imperative languages, what syntax
2092 2011-03-09 16:04:05 <UukGoblin> Necr0s, just use Moose with Perl and you'll get much better OO experience than any java
2093 2011-03-09 16:04:20 <Necr0s> Moose huh...
2094 2011-03-09 16:04:22 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: please. just plain old Perl.
2095 2011-03-09 16:04:23 <UukGoblin> Java can be compiled to native machine code? I didn't know that
2096 2011-03-09 16:04:31 <xelister> luke-jr: most apps are fine running 30% (or the SAME SPEED if hdd, or network, or the user! is bottlenck) esp if they get developed x3 faster
2097 2011-03-09 16:04:31 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: with GCC
2098 2011-03-09 16:04:33 <Necr0s> I'd always had POE be talked-up.
2099 2011-03-09 16:04:55 <luke-jr> xelister: 30% is pathetic btw
2100 2011-03-09 16:05:00 <UukGoblin> anyways, I wouldn't compare Java to Perl
2101 2011-03-09 16:05:03 <UukGoblin> I'd compare it to C++
2102 2011-03-09 16:05:18 <xelister> I dont see difference as user
2103 2011-03-09 16:05:19 <luke-jr> C++ is slightly better.
2104 2011-03-09 16:05:24 <luke-jr> xelister: you don't?
2105 2011-03-09 16:05:25 <xelister> app in C++ app in java, run the same
2106 2011-03-09 16:05:36 <luke-jr> Java apps don't use native system toolkits, so always look ugly
2107 2011-03-09 16:05:39 <UukGoblin> xelister, well check the memory usage then
2108 2011-03-09 16:05:41 <xelister> ok java apps do require some mem for JRE etc, but at normal desktops I dont care
2109 2011-03-09 16:05:55 <xelister> luke-jr: skin it
2110 2011-03-09 16:05:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: that has gotten better recently
2111 2011-03-09 16:06:30 <Necr0s> How does C++ compare to java in terms of managing large and complex codebases?
2112 2011-03-09 16:06:53 <BlueMatt> can we get off the java talk, it has many flaws and benefits, its about as polarizing as perl v python or vi v emacs
2113 2011-03-09 16:06:56 <luke-jr> xelister: no
2114 2011-03-09 16:06:56 <Necr0s> Does it lend itself to dividing and organizing thins sensibly?
2115 2011-03-09 16:07:12 Diablo-D3 has joined
2116 2011-03-09 16:07:21 <UukGoblin> xelister, at embedded devices like a smartphone, I fucking care.
2117 2011-03-09 16:07:21 <luke-jr> anyhow, let's just conclude with this: Java sucks
2118 2011-03-09 16:07:22 <BlueMatt> can we discuss the portoption pull request in github?
2119 2011-03-09 16:07:43 <sipa> that does seem more appropriate on this channel
2120 2011-03-09 16:07:46 <UukGoblin> Necr0s, well C++ has STXXL, what does Java have?
2121 2011-03-09 16:08:07 <xelister> UukGoblin: well yea
2122 2011-03-09 16:08:09 <UukGoblin> oh codebases, not datasets
2123 2011-03-09 16:08:20 <BlueMatt> Ubuntu 11.10: Oneiric Ocelot
2124 2011-03-09 16:08:24 Lachesis has joined
2125 2011-03-09 16:08:31 <Necr0s> Yeah, like when your project grows to ovar 1000 classes.
2126 2011-03-09 16:08:41 <UukGoblin> Onanic Orphan
2127 2011-03-09 16:08:43 <xelister> The Oneiwhat Ocewhat ?
2128 2011-03-09 16:09:00 <Necr0s> 11.10?
2129 2011-03-09 16:09:04 <Necr0s> It's not even 11.04 yet.
2130 2011-03-09 16:09:15 <BlueMatt> they just announced the name for it, thought id post it to get people off java
2131 2011-03-09 16:09:19 <UukGoblin> Necr0s, you'll project will grow to that many classes likely because it shouldn't be OO ;-]
2132 2011-03-09 16:09:26 <UukGoblin> Java /forces/ you to use OO
2133 2011-03-09 16:09:33 <UukGoblin> in C++ or Perl, you have plenty of other choices
2134 2011-03-09 16:09:41 <Necr0s> hehe
2135 2011-03-09 16:09:44 <xelister> Ubuntu 12.04 the Drunk Raging Gorrilla   12.10 The Sexually Repressed Monkey
2136 2011-03-09 16:09:52 <Necr0s> This happened to be an ActionScript project, of all things.
2137 2011-03-09 16:09:59 <Necr0s> Whish is fairly java-like.
2138 2011-03-09 16:10:00 <sipa> then don't use Java if you don't like the choices it limits for you
2139 2011-03-09 16:10:14 <Necr0s> And the designers decided to force the MVC paradigm on the whole thing...
2140 2011-03-09 16:10:25 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well, at least you had good intentions... it's a wild bunch out here
2141 2011-03-09 16:11:08 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/109
2142 2011-03-09 16:11:09 <xelister> but what the fuck is an Ocelot
2143 2011-03-09 16:11:11 <BlueMatt> good idea, bad idea?
2144 2011-03-09 16:11:31 <Necr0s> Isn't it a sort of primate?
2145 2011-03-09 16:11:35 <BlueMatt> is it really necessary?
2146 2011-03-09 16:11:35 <xelister> its a cat
2147 2011-03-09 16:12:04 <Necr0s> I thought Apple had dibs on all the cat names.
2148 2011-03-09 16:12:10 <UukGoblin> it's like Lancelot but with an O
2149 2011-03-09 16:12:24 <BlueMatt> do we need dns seed nodes, it seems like the existing seed nodes work fine, any comments?
2150 2011-03-09 16:12:44 <sipa> i love dns seeding
2151 2011-03-09 16:12:45 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
2152 2011-03-09 16:12:46 <gribble> 166541.25153875
2153 2011-03-09 16:12:51 <Necr0s> Robustulousness is always good to have moar of.
2154 2011-03-09 16:13:06 <BlueMatt> how many of the existing ip seed nodes are down?
2155 2011-03-09 16:13:42 <sipa> simply the fact that one DNS can map to many IPs is very useful i think
2156 2011-03-09 16:14:03 spenvo has joined
2157 2011-03-09 16:14:04 <Necr0s> yes
2158 2011-03-09 16:14:08 <sipa> so anyone can host their own database of nodes, and publish it, simply using DNS
2159 2011-03-09 16:14:24 <Necr0s> DNS can also accomodate ipv4 and ipv6 transparently.
2160 2011-03-09 16:14:27 <BlueMatt> I dont think jgarzik's patch supports multiple ips / dns
2161 2011-03-09 16:14:36 <sipa> then let's update his patch :)
2162 2011-03-09 16:14:41 <BlueMatt> never mind, it does
2163 2011-03-09 16:14:47 <sipa> even better
2164 2011-03-09 16:15:02 <BlueMatt> good point, though Im not sure its that great
2165 2011-03-09 16:15:14 <BlueMatt> in any case, jgarzik can add bluematt.me to the list :)
2166 2011-03-09 16:15:40 <Necr0s> I assume all these nodes are assumed to be operating on 8333, yes?
2167 2011-03-09 16:15:45 <sipa> yes
2168 2011-03-09 16:15:48 <BlueMatt> sadly for now, yes
2169 2011-03-09 16:16:06 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/105 for next version?
2170 2011-03-09 16:16:07 <Necr0s> That scheme seems to work well enough for most other protocols.
2171 2011-03-09 16:16:23 <BlueMatt> I guess for seed nodes its not really a problem
2172 2011-03-09 16:17:14 bulletbill has joined
2173 2011-03-09 16:22:51 <BlueMatt> also, should -dnsseed be on by default, especially if irc channel is full (as it often has been last couple of days)
2174 2011-03-09 16:25:10 <spenvo> is there an irc channel that's not dev-focused, b/c whenever i say something in here that is not mining or coding related-- i feel like i'm interrupting people
2175 2011-03-09 16:25:33 <sipa> spenvo: don't worry - a lot of the talk here is not very dev-related at all
2176 2011-03-09 16:25:39 <sipa> and there is #bitcoin-discussion
2177 2011-03-09 16:25:50 <spenvo> cool, i'll join over there too
2178 2011-03-09 16:25:54 <spenvo> ty
2179 2011-03-09 16:27:11 <Necr0s> BlueMatt: DNS was made to propagate address information.  IRC was not.
2180 2011-03-09 16:27:24 <Necr0s> I would favor DNS by default.
2181 2011-03-09 16:27:32 bk128-Droid has joined
2182 2011-03-09 16:27:42 <sipa> except DNS is assymetric
2183 2011-03-09 16:30:07 <Necr0s> What do you mean?
2184 2011-03-09 16:30:08 <BlueMatt> dns I think is just as imporant as irc or other ip seeds
2185 2011-03-09 16:30:45 <BlueMatt> he means dns seeds means you have 10 seeds which you connect to, irc is a list of several thousand
2186 2011-03-09 16:30:50 <BlueMatt> and anyone can be on the irc liet
2187 2011-03-09 16:30:51 <BlueMatt> list*
2188 2011-03-09 16:30:57 <sipa> DNS cannot be updated by the nodes themselves, IRC can
2189 2011-03-09 16:31:08 <sipa> (when used as a bootstrap system)
2190 2011-03-09 16:31:18 <Necr0s> mm, yes.
2191 2011-03-09 16:31:21 <Avemo> the more reasonable ways to bootstrap we have the better, they are complimentary
2192 2011-03-09 16:31:42 <sipa> agree
2193 2011-03-09 16:31:47 <Necr0s> Unless dynamic DNS is used.
2194 2011-03-09 16:32:02 <Necr0s> Which itself would be a difficult thing to manage and implement reasonably.
2195 2011-03-09 16:32:05 <BlueMatt> there is a peer exchange system, right. Anyone know what the rules are for when/how other nodes are sent
2196 2011-03-09 16:32:19 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: how so?
2197 2011-03-09 16:32:40 <Avemo> there are free
2198 2011-03-09 16:32:40 <Avemo> DNS services such as zerigo with decent API's, should be fairly easy to implement something
2199 2011-03-09 16:33:01 <Necr0s> I meant like dynamically adding and removing IPs from a single hostname.
2200 2011-03-09 16:33:12 <Avemo> exactly that
2201 2011-03-09 16:33:36 <BlueMatt> oh, yea you mean allow each node to add itself to a dns record
2202 2011-03-09 16:33:39 <Necr0s> Seems like you would have issues where fake nodes could be added, and other kinds of DoS nastiness could be done easily.
2203 2011-03-09 16:33:46 <BlueMatt> yea that record would be way too big
2204 2011-03-09 16:33:59 <sipa> but the overhead of IRC is way way lower than using a custom dynamic dns provider
2205 2011-03-09 16:34:00 <Avemo> no, that would be insecure, just someone running a script on domain he controls
2206 2011-03-09 16:34:02 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: same problems exist with irc, hence ip seeds exist
2207 2011-03-09 16:35:00 <Necr0s> So yeah, a manually-managed DNS-based list of well established seeds, complimented by the existing IRC method soulds like a win.
2208 2011-03-09 16:35:34 <Necr0s> You could add a twitter method as well.  ;)
2209 2011-03-09 16:35:56 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: we'd get banned again because it would look too much like a botnet
2210 2011-03-09 16:36:03 <Necr0s> heh
2211 2011-03-09 16:36:06 <Necr0s> which it masically is.
2212 2011-03-09 16:36:09 <Necr0s> basically
2213 2011-03-09 16:36:21 <BlueMatt> we had similar problems with freenode, though those were resolved after some people spoke to some staff
2214 2011-03-09 16:37:33 <Avemo> assuming that inserting a evil node in bootstrap list is not an attack (surely it is not), there are many ways to DNS bootrstrap, for example having a hardcoded list of dnsseed.domain and maybe dnsseed.bitcoin.* where some owners of bitcoin.* domains maintain DNS records
2215 2011-03-09 16:38:37 bulletbill has left ()
2216 2011-03-09 16:38:45 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
2217 2011-03-09 16:38:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 2 weeks, 0 days, 7 hours, 1 minute, and 47 seconds
2218 2011-03-09 16:38:47 <BlueMatt> In any case, I think pretty much everyone agrees jgarzik's pull is a good idea?
2219 2011-03-09 16:38:50 <Avemo> the code would just check all 200-300 dnsseed.bitcoin.* domains, one of them ought to have DNS set up if there is a convention to do this
2220 2011-03-09 16:39:21 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2221 2011-03-09 16:39:37 <Avemo> yep good idea
2222 2011-03-09 16:40:20 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 530000
2223 2011-03-09 16:40:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 530000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 30 minutes, and 53 seconds
2224 2011-03-09 16:40:23 <xelister> fuuu.
2225 2011-03-09 16:40:30 <xelister> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
2226 2011-03-09 16:40:37 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 160000
2227 2011-03-09 16:40:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 36 seconds
2228 2011-03-09 16:41:03 <xelister> 8-|   I ruined my life with buyining minig gear
2229 2011-03-09 16:41:09 <Necr0s> My 2 5970s are supposed to show up today.
2230 2011-03-09 16:41:20 <xelister> Necr0s: fail
2231 2011-03-09 16:41:30 <Necr0s> This snow/sleet had better not delay them.
2232 2011-03-09 16:41:51 <Necr0s> Fail for not buying them months ago?
2233 2011-03-09 16:44:01 <Avemo> LOL for 55555 seconds today we had diff 55k than it switched to 77k , numerologs would go crazy on this one :-)
2234 2011-03-09 16:44:22 <Necr0s> It's the Law of Fives manifesting.
2235 2011-03-09 16:46:09 <UukGoblin> 55.5k
2236 2011-03-09 16:46:24 <UukGoblin> but I'm sorry to say it switched to 76k
2237 2011-03-09 16:46:48 <Avemo> yea, it is, my bad
2238 2011-03-09 16:47:12 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
2239 2011-03-09 16:47:13 <gribble> 73997.72161058
2240 2011-03-09 16:47:20 <UukGoblin> A DROP?!?!?!
2241 2011-03-09 16:47:24 <Avemo> but it is even better for 55555 seconds today we had diff 55.5k
2242 2011-03-09 16:47:47 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
2243 2011-03-09 16:47:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112900 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 14 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 73997.72161058
2244 2011-03-09 16:47:50 <Avemo> untill MM plugs in again, perhaps
2245 2011-03-09 16:47:52 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: much better than earlier
2246 2011-03-09 16:47:57 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: it was estimating 300k
2247 2011-03-09 16:47:59 <sipa> UukGoblin: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
2248 2011-03-09 16:48:14 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, that was a crazy estimate based on few seconds' worth of data
2249 2011-03-09 16:48:23 <Necr0s> I think the algorithm for calculating that may have some issues.
2250 2011-03-09 16:48:26 <sipa> UukGoblin: we're still overestimating
2251 2011-03-09 16:48:33 <luke-jr> what's MM?
2252 2011-03-09 16:48:40 <sipa> luke-jr: the mystery miner
2253 2011-03-09 16:48:41 <Avemo> mystery miner
2254 2011-03-09 16:48:44 <luke-jr> o
2255 2011-03-09 16:48:52 <luke-jr> can we DDoS him too?
2256 2011-03-09 16:48:57 <BlueMatt> dont know his ip
2257 2011-03-09 16:48:59 <sipa> the one who did 400GH/s by himself, and then suddenly disappeared
2258 2011-03-09 16:49:00 <UukGoblin> what mystery miner?
2259 2011-03-09 16:49:01 <Necr0s> mm huh...
2260 2011-03-09 16:49:07 <BlueMatt> he connects via relays
2261 2011-03-09 16:49:12 slush is now known as MysteryMiner
2262 2011-03-09 16:49:17 <BlueMatt> lol
2263 2011-03-09 16:49:18 <bk128-Droid> Lol
2264 2011-03-09 16:49:24 <Necr0s> Maybe it's the NSA.
2265 2011-03-09 16:49:27 xelister is now known as slush
2266 2011-03-09 16:49:31 <Necr0s> or ONI or something deeper.
2267 2011-03-09 16:49:35 EvanR-work is now known as xelister
2268 2011-03-09 16:49:38 <slush> I will be closing the pool. and I take all your money LOLOLOLOL kthxbye
2269 2011-03-09 16:49:40 BlueMatt is now known as EvanR-work
2270 2011-03-09 16:49:50 <slush> I will be closing the pool. and I take all your money LOLOLOLOL kthxbye
2271 2011-03-09 16:49:51 <slush> :>
2272 2011-03-09 16:49:57 <slush> wait. other chnnel.
2273 2011-03-09 16:50:12 <slush> </disclammer be carefull about irc>
2274 2011-03-09 16:50:22 <MysteryMiner> lol
2275 2011-03-09 16:50:27 <luke-jr> slush: I'm quoting you on that
2276 2011-03-09 16:50:33 <MysteryMiner> I cannot switch back to slush, how so? It is registered nick
2277 2011-03-09 16:50:41 <slush> lolz...
2278 2011-03-09 16:50:47 <EvanR-work> oh this is great
2279 2011-03-09 16:50:49 <luke-jr> MysteryMiner: you are not slush
2280 2011-03-09 16:50:50 <slush> woot.
2281 2011-03-09 16:50:55 <slush> luke-jr:  you are not luke-jr
2282 2011-03-09 16:50:57 BlueMatt has joined
2283 2011-03-09 16:50:58 <UukGoblin> MysteryMiner, was your password 'god'? ;-]
2284 2011-03-09 16:51:04 <Avemo> now let's see how long it takes for 50 page thread on forums about evil slush to pop up
2285 2011-03-09 16:51:30 <MysteryMiner> xelister: stop kidding, right ? ;)
2286 2011-03-09 16:52:00 MysteryMiner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2287 2011-03-09 16:52:03 <xelister> show me penises for bitcoins
2288 2011-03-09 16:52:09 EvanR-work is now known as BlueMatt_
2289 2011-03-09 16:52:22 xelister is now known as EvanR-work
2290 2011-03-09 16:52:24 slush1 has joined
2291 2011-03-09 16:52:25 BlueMatt is now known as xelister
2292 2011-03-09 16:52:27 <cosurgi> omg. wtf. argh, cyclic dependence found.
2293 2011-03-09 16:52:32 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt
2294 2011-03-09 16:52:36 * cosurgi segmentation fAult
2295 2011-03-09 16:52:54 <UukGoblin> oh, cosurgi, how're you doin' :-]
2296 2011-03-09 16:53:02 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, my pandora is doing great! :-)
2297 2011-03-09 16:53:09 <slush> >_>
2298 2011-03-09 16:53:10 <cosurgi> :) nice, from pandora now
2299 2011-03-09 16:53:18 <slush> I work for CIA you are all fucked
2300 2011-03-09 16:53:18 <EvanR-work> >_> whos who
2301 2011-03-09 16:53:21 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
2302 2011-03-09 16:53:24 <UukGoblin> everyone I show it to says it's lame, and it doesn't run windows and I should sell it, but...
2303 2011-03-09 16:53:29 slush1 is now known as MysteryMiner
2304 2011-03-09 16:53:34 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: no one knows...
2305 2011-03-09 16:53:35 <UukGoblin> FUCK THEM! :-] I love it ;-]
2306 2011-03-09 16:53:39 <slush> MysteryMiner: you should really use the ghost command
2307 2011-03-09 16:53:43 <BlueMatt> well unless you look at masks
2308 2011-03-09 16:53:58 <cosurgi> you already have it? congrats :))
2309 2011-03-09 16:54:16 <UukGoblin> cosurgi, yeah, I got it within a week
2310 2011-03-09 16:54:36 BlueMatt is now known as chmod755
2311 2011-03-09 16:54:58 <MysteryMiner> what a mess. I have no idea who is who now :)
2312 2011-03-09 16:55:08 <UukGoblin> I'm me.
2313 2011-03-09 16:55:22 <cosurgi> me too ')
2314 2011-03-09 16:55:25 <cosurgi> :)
2315 2011-03-09 16:55:43 xelister is now known as Satoshl
2316 2011-03-09 16:56:13 <chmod755> omg satoshis back
2317 2011-03-09 16:56:13 <UukGoblin> hahah satoshi was taken ;-]
2318 2011-03-09 16:56:26 <chmod755> UukGoblin: yea, I just tried that too ;)
2319 2011-03-09 16:56:36 slush has quit (Disconnected by services)
2320 2011-03-09 16:56:37 <EvanR-work> its a false prophet
2321 2011-03-09 16:56:44 MysteryMiner is now known as slush
2322 2011-03-09 16:56:50 chmod755 is now known as BlueMatt
2323 2011-03-09 16:56:52 <UukGoblin> ooh, congrats ;-]
2324 2011-03-09 16:56:55 slush has quit (Changing host)
2325 2011-03-09 16:56:55 slush has joined
2326 2011-03-09 16:56:56 <Satoshl> I'm kicking you all out of bitcoin!
2327 2011-03-09 16:57:00 <spenvo> satoshi is like bobby fisher, brilliant then gone
2328 2011-03-09 16:57:03 xelister has joined
2329 2011-03-09 16:57:04 xelister has quit (Changing host)
2330 2011-03-09 16:57:04 xelister has joined
2331 2011-03-09 16:57:15 <EvanR-work> fisher is in iceland
2332 2011-03-09 16:57:17 <BlueMatt> ha, yea
2333 2011-03-09 16:57:23 <UukGoblin> slush, what did you do to him? :-]
2334 2011-03-09 16:57:26 <spenvo> lol
2335 2011-03-09 16:58:21 <slush> UukGoblin: I googled ghost command :)
2336 2011-03-09 16:58:37 <spenvo> this week in google is on today, what do you think the odds are they'll mention bitcoinj?
2337 2011-03-09 16:58:47 <spenvo> twit.tv/twig
2338 2011-03-09 16:59:06 <slush> xelister: thanks for help ;)
2339 2011-03-09 16:59:21 <Necr0s> I saw the first mention of bitcoin today in an ebay GPU listing.
2340 2011-03-09 16:59:23 <BlueMatt> spenvo: spam the irc channel until they talk about it
2341 2011-03-09 16:59:34 Satoshl has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2342 2011-03-09 16:59:47 <spenvo> BlueMatt: DAMN GOOD IDEA
2343 2011-03-09 16:59:54 <spenvo> let's all spam it
2344 2011-03-09 16:59:57 <luke-jr> what IRC channel?
2345 2011-03-09 17:00:02 <UukGoblin> #google?
2346 2011-03-09 17:00:07 <BlueMatt> #twitlive on irc.twit.tv
2347 2011-03-09 17:00:13 <spenvo> no, twit has its own chatroom
2348 2011-03-09 17:00:18 * BlueMatt goes to turn on his botnet
2349 2011-03-09 17:00:27 <spenvo> leo calls it his external mind
2350 2011-03-09 17:00:32 <spenvo> lol bluematt killer idea
2351 2011-03-09 17:00:49 <spenvo> we should go 4chan on their asses
2352 2011-03-09 17:00:55 <xelister> <_<
2353 2011-03-09 17:00:56 <xelister> :)
2354 2011-03-09 17:01:01 <BlueMatt> poor leo
2355 2011-03-09 17:01:03 <phantomcircuit> holy crap sqlite performs MUCH worse under ext4 than ext3
2356 2011-03-09 17:01:05 <phantomcircuit> weird
2357 2011-03-09 17:01:10 <Diablo-D3> yes it does
2358 2011-03-09 17:01:18 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: why have you not given up on sqlite yet?
2359 2011-03-09 17:01:19 <Diablo-D3> lots of things that bang on shit hard perform better
2360 2011-03-09 17:01:22 <Necr0s> odd
2361 2011-03-09 17:01:27 <spenvo> i'll go get time of show and make sure that its on today, brb
2362 2011-03-09 17:01:31 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: you're an idiot, please shut up
2363 2011-03-09 17:01:55 <spenvo> Diablo-D3: explain
2364 2011-03-09 17:01:56 <UukGoblin> lol I missed Diablo-D3
2365 2011-03-09 17:01:58 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the only problem is inserting
2366 2011-03-09 17:02:04 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I was just referring to his constant complaining about its poor performance, it was a joke
2367 2011-03-09 17:02:10 <spenvo> nvm
2368 2011-03-09 17:02:11 <phantomcircuit> which is a tiny % of traffic 99.999% of the time
2369 2011-03-09 17:02:19 <phantomcircuit> so it's just slow for initial chain creation
2370 2011-03-09 17:02:25 <luke-jr> #twitlive on irc.twit.tv everyone!
2371 2011-03-09 17:02:49 <spenvo> haha, yes, we need to hop in our trenches when leo gets on air
2372 2011-03-09 17:02:51 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: but it doesnt have poor performance
2373 2011-03-09 17:03:05 <Diablo-D3> otherwise 1000s of apps people use daily wouldnt use it
2374 2011-03-09 17:03:34 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: again, it was entirely a joke and had nothing to do with any real world apps or otherwise
2375 2011-03-09 17:03:46 <BlueMatt> twig isnt for another 4 hours
2376 2011-03-09 17:03:50 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2377 2011-03-09 17:03:56 <spenvo> massive exposure on twit, if we get mentioned. *goes to post on bulletin
2378 2011-03-09 17:04:02 <BlueMatt> though floss weekly starts in 45 min, maybe we could get gavin on there
2379 2011-03-09 17:04:12 <Avemo> ;;bc,estimate
2380 2011-03-09 17:04:12 <gribble> 73869.17821884
2381 2011-03-09 17:04:13 <BlueMatt> not that anyone really watches that show...sadly
2382 2011-03-09 17:05:23 <spenvo> right, leo just makes millions on adds and noone watches.  ford advertises on that show
2383 2011-03-09 17:05:28 <spenvo> *ads
2384 2011-03-09 17:05:28 <EvanR-work> do we really need the difficulty to go up again ;)
2385 2011-03-09 17:05:44 <BlueMatt> oo, they got the guy from selinux on this time. have to watch that one
2386 2011-03-09 17:06:03 <BlueMatt> well unless he forgets again...
2387 2011-03-09 17:06:18 <Necr0s> I hope he gets whacked in the crotch.
2388 2011-03-09 17:06:23 <Necr0s> I hate selinux.
2389 2011-03-09 17:06:24 <UukGoblin> EvanR-work, no, but we need /price/ to go up again
2390 2011-03-09 17:06:25 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: just no talking about mining
2391 2011-03-09 17:06:31 <spenvo> we'll, i'm going to plant some seeds in the irc chatroom, cya later everybody
2392 2011-03-09 17:06:38 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: lol, give him a chance to defend himself first
2393 2011-03-09 17:07:03 <EvanR-work> yes stop emphasizing mining, i want more for myself
2394 2011-03-09 17:07:09 <spenvo> *well - dam you evanr!  i wrote a post about you on the forums!  http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4305.0
2395 2011-03-09 17:07:13 <BlueMatt> anyone want to try to hack the twig rundown (IIRC its typically on gdocs) and insert bitcoin?
2396 2011-03-09 17:07:31 <spenvo> no bluematt that's not smart
2397 2011-03-09 17:07:40 <spenvo> thats juvenile
2398 2011-03-09 17:07:55 <phantomcircuit> oh
2399 2011-03-09 17:07:55 <spenvo> the show goes on for an hour, plenty of time to get leo to mention
2400 2011-03-09 17:07:59 <phantomcircuit> darn
2401 2011-03-09 17:08:07 <phantomcircuit> guess turning off barriers is a bad idea huh
2402 2011-03-09 17:08:34 <BlueMatt> tcatm jgarzik: would you want to be on floss weekly to talk about bitcoin?
2403 2011-03-09 17:08:35 <UukGoblin> so is there any actual evidence of google getting involved?
2404 2011-03-09 17:09:03 <spenvo> bluematt's full of good ideas today
2405 2011-03-09 17:09:18 <Avemo> involved unofficially, so far
2406 2011-03-09 17:09:31 <BlueMatt> really want to see them selling ad credits for bitcoin
2407 2011-03-09 17:09:49 <EvanR-work> is the difficulty and price and energy costs currently making 5970 mining not profitable
2408 2011-03-09 17:10:07 <EvanR-work> i think im at break even
2409 2011-03-09 17:10:14 <Diablo-D3> [11:57:33] <Necr0s> I hate selinux.
2410 2011-03-09 17:10:17 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: BitCoinJ is copyright Google
2411 2011-03-09 17:10:17 <spenvo> yes uuk - an employee at google has introduced java bitcoin client at http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/
2412 2011-03-09 17:10:18 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing wriong with selinux
2413 2011-03-09 17:10:25 <Diablo-D3> it does exactly iiiiiiiiirfdaskfjlkrfaw
2414 2011-03-09 17:10:28 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: what the fuck
2415 2011-03-09 17:10:34 <Diablo-D3> are you fucking kidding me
2416 2011-03-09 17:10:40 <phantomcircuit> spenvo, it's hardly a full client
2417 2011-03-09 17:10:56 <Diablo-D3> fuck you google
2418 2011-03-09 17:11:00 <Diablo-D3> get the fuck out of my shit
2419 2011-03-09 17:11:04 <luke-jr> lol
2420 2011-03-09 17:11:13 <luke-jr> I don't get why Google would use Java tho
2421 2011-03-09 17:11:14 <UukGoblin> "be suitable for usage on constrained devices such as mobile phones" <- what the hell is wrong with those people
2422 2011-03-09 17:11:16 <luke-jr> usually Google is all Python
2423 2011-03-09 17:11:23 <UukGoblin> java NEVER WAS suitable for use on mobile phones...
2424 2011-03-09 17:11:24 <EvanR-work> google uses python and java
2425 2011-03-09 17:11:25 <luke-jr> oh, maybe fro Android
2426 2011-03-09 17:11:27 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: android
2427 2011-03-09 17:11:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its just someone who works at google, doesnt have to be doing it on google's time
2428 2011-03-09 17:11:35 <Diablo-D3> and dalvik isnt java
2429 2011-03-09 17:11:36 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, it's an abomination imho
2430 2011-03-09 17:11:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: he *is* doing it on Google's time
2431 2011-03-09 17:11:45 <phantomcircuit> ahahah
2432 2011-03-09 17:11:51 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, this guy worked on wave
2433 2011-03-09 17:11:53 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: you keep thinking of java me
2434 2011-03-09 17:11:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and Google lawyers OK'd the release
2435 2011-03-09 17:11:54 <phantomcircuit> *shudders*
2436 2011-03-09 17:11:54 <slush> It _is_ client, but without GUI
2437 2011-03-09 17:11:56 <UukGoblin> nokia using j2me was an abomination too
2438 2011-03-09 17:11:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: really? how do we know?
2439 2011-03-09 17:11:58 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: OH FUCK
2440 2011-03-09 17:12:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: he said so
2441 2011-03-09 17:12:02 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2442 2011-03-09 17:12:03 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2443 2011-03-09 17:12:03 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2444 2011-03-09 17:12:04 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2445 2011-03-09 17:12:04 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2446 2011-03-09 17:12:04 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2447 2011-03-09 17:12:05 <BlueMatt> nice
2448 2011-03-09 17:12:06 * Diablo-D3 CASHES IN HIS BITCOINS NOW
2449 2011-03-09 17:12:07 <TD2> i worked on wave?
2450 2011-03-09 17:12:10 <Diablo-D3> ABANDON SHIP!
2451 2011-03-09 17:12:10 <Diablo-D3> ABANDON SHIP!
2452 2011-03-09 17:12:13 <TD2> that's news to me
2453 2011-03-09 17:12:13 <Diablo-D3> THIS IS NO A DRILL!
2454 2011-03-09 17:12:19 <luke-jr> hi TD2
2455 2011-03-09 17:12:22 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, http://www.google.com/search?q=+hearn%40google.com
2456 2011-03-09 17:12:24 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: stfu spammer
2457 2011-03-09 17:12:31 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, no, dalvik on android was even stupider than j2me imho
2458 2011-03-09 17:12:31 <Diablo-D3> TD2: wait, what?
2459 2011-03-09 17:12:31 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2460 2011-03-09 17:12:46 <UukGoblin> "we want to go away from j2me" "so we'll put even more java on our device"
2461 2011-03-09 17:12:47 <Diablo-D3> who is TD2 and should I start hating him?
2462 2011-03-09 17:12:54 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: noob.
2463 2011-03-09 17:12:59 TD2 is now known as TD
2464 2011-03-09 17:13:01 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, lol you hate anyone anyway, so what's the difference?
2465 2011-03-09 17:13:04 <TD> phantomcircuit: prefix check
2466 2011-03-09 17:13:05 <spenvo> ok guys, twig goes live : "Recorded live at 4 p.m. Eastern/1 p.m. Pacific/2000 UTC on Wednesdays" be on http://irc.twit.tv/ at that time
2467 2011-03-09 17:13:08 <Necr0s> selinux made me mad.
2468 2011-03-09 17:13:10 <TD> phantomcircuit: hearn....@google.com != hearn@google.com
2469 2011-03-09 17:13:11 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: some people get priority hate
2470 2011-03-09 17:13:26 <Diablo-D3> TD: oh, this is your shit?
2471 2011-03-09 17:13:30 <EvanR-work> dump the koolaid overboard!
2472 2011-03-09 17:13:31 <TD> it is indeed
2473 2011-03-09 17:13:36 <Diablo-D3> nm then
2474 2011-03-09 17:13:38 <Necr0s> I spent weeks trying to stabilize this system that would kernel panic under heavy io load after a while.
2475 2011-03-09 17:13:40 * Diablo-D3 turns the alarm off
2476 2011-03-09 17:13:44 <TD> haha
2477 2011-03-09 17:13:57 <EvanR-work> TD is a party member. nothing to see here
2478 2011-03-09 17:13:58 <Diablo-D3> TD: why isnt this done yet
2479 2011-03-09 17:13:58 <Necr0s> Finally I rebuilt the kernel without selinux.  No more crashes.
2480 2011-03-09 17:14:18 tower has joined
2481 2011-03-09 17:14:21 <luke-jr> TD: care to answer the question I asked? :P
2482 2011-03-09 17:14:22 <TD> why isn't what done ?
2483 2011-03-09 17:14:27 <phantomcircuit> TD, the hearn@google.com appears to own the bitcoinj on code.google.com
2484 2011-03-09 17:14:32 <TD> luke-jr: it is already split into those components pretty much
2485 2011-03-09 17:14:36 <luke-jr> TD: ah, nice
2486 2011-03-09 17:14:42 <luke-jr> TD: any input on the wallet protocol?
2487 2011-03-09 17:14:49 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol
2488 2011-03-09 17:14:51 <TD> phantomcircuit: yes. the commits you see in the google search on wave come from hearn...@google.com, but the last three letters are hidden as an anti-spam meaure
2489 2011-03-09 17:15:05 <TD> they are not the same usernames
2490 2011-03-09 17:15:13 <phantomcircuit> oh so they are
2491 2011-03-09 17:15:15 <TD> most obviously my name is mike not dave
2492 2011-03-09 17:15:19 <TD> :-)
2493 2011-03-09 17:15:27 <TD> luke-jr: i didn't get a chance to look at that yet
2494 2011-03-09 17:15:32 <TD> so no comments yet
2495 2011-03-09 17:15:34 <luke-jr> k]
2496 2011-03-09 17:15:38 <phantomcircuit> TD, ps can i get a job?
2497 2011-03-09 17:15:40 <phantomcircuit> i like jobs
2498 2011-03-09 17:15:44 <TD> as to why java, well, lots more people know it than c++
2499 2011-03-09 17:15:45 <TD> hehe
2500 2011-03-09 17:15:49 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I wouldn't want to work at Google
2501 2011-03-09 17:15:51 <BlueMatt> TD: it looks like its he...@google.com, but when you enter the captca its hearn, so not hidden?
2502 2011-03-09 17:16:05 <EvanR-work> c++ minus insanity = java
2503 2011-03-09 17:16:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i already dont have a life, how much worse could it get?
2504 2011-03-09 17:16:17 <TD> phantomcircuit: you can apply if you like. google.com/jobs
2505 2011-03-09 17:16:23 <Diablo-D3> so wait
2506 2011-03-09 17:16:24 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: last I checked they force you to go into an office and lame crap like that
2507 2011-03-09 17:16:28 <Diablo-D3> WHO owns bitcoinj?
2508 2011-03-09 17:16:30 <Diablo-D3> TD?
2509 2011-03-09 17:16:30 <TD> me
2510 2011-03-09 17:16:31 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: Google
2511 2011-03-09 17:16:34 <TD> yes
2512 2011-03-09 17:16:35 <TD> google own it
2513 2011-03-09 17:16:41 <TD> i am admin/maintainer of the project
2514 2011-03-09 17:16:42 <phantomcircuit> TD, yeah odds are pretty low, no BS, no experience id put on a resume
2515 2011-03-09 17:16:42 <phantomcircuit> lol
2516 2011-03-09 17:16:44 <Diablo-D3> but TD isnt a google employee
2517 2011-03-09 17:16:48 tower is now known as towerX
2518 2011-03-09 17:16:58 <TD> try doing /whois TD
2519 2011-03-09 17:17:00 <luke-jr> TD: Diablo-D3 just fired you
2520 2011-03-09 17:17:01 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i think i could live with that in return for gobs of money
2521 2011-03-09 17:17:12 <Diablo-D3> TD: I dont recognize your name
2522 2011-03-09 17:17:18 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: also, Google is evil
2523 2011-03-09 17:17:27 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i think i could live with that in return for gobs of money
2524 2011-03-09 17:17:27 <Diablo-D3> TD: and if google was serious about bitcoin, they would have hired me by now.
2525 2011-03-09 17:17:33 <luke-jr> lol
2526 2011-03-09 17:17:38 <TD> why would you recognize my name?
2527 2011-03-09 17:17:47 <Diablo-D3> because I recognize names of google employees
2528 2011-03-09 17:17:50 * TD is missing the connection there
2529 2011-03-09 17:18:04 <Diablo-D3> all 5 of them.
2530 2011-03-09 17:18:07 * Diablo-D3 snickers
2531 2011-03-09 17:18:14 <spenvo> TD: so what's on the agenda for the internal meeting? Any coworkers excited about your project?
2532 2011-03-09 17:18:15 <phantomcircuit> <Diablo-D3> I AM GOD
2533 2011-03-09 17:18:22 <luke-jr> actually, if it weren't for that office crap, I might be willing to work for Google just for that 20% time
2534 2011-03-09 17:18:54 <UukGoblin> this is Mike Hearn, with a signature of
2535 2011-03-09 17:18:58 <UukGoblin> --
2536 2011-03-09 17:18:59 <UukGoblin> GMail Engineering
2537 2011-03-09 17:18:59 <UukGoblin> Google Switzerland GmbH
2538 2011-03-09 17:18:59 <spenvo> haha - i guess it's internal for a reason but please tell
2539 2011-03-09 17:19:11 <UukGoblin> Switzerland! think about it! they have all the banks!
2540 2011-03-09 17:19:13 <Diablo-D3> Sigh.
2541 2011-03-09 17:19:32 <luke-jr> TD: are we wasting our time in #twitlive trying to get TWIG to mention BitCoinJ?
2542 2011-03-09 17:19:32 <Diablo-D3> Now I dont know if I want to continue coding this
2543 2011-03-09 17:20:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: twig doesnt start for like another 4 hours
2544 2011-03-09 17:20:17 <TD> i don't know what twitlive is
2545 2011-03-09 17:20:22 <TD> and the internal meeting is internal
2546 2011-03-09 17:20:24 <TD> sorry ;)
2547 2011-03-09 17:20:33 <Necr0s> I haven't seen any mention of bc in there yet.
2548 2011-03-09 17:20:46 <luke-jr> TD: some Google TV program
2549 2011-03-09 17:20:54 <Diablo-D3> TD: okay, is Google's plans to take over Bitcoin and shove out all the people who do the hard work?
2550 2011-03-09 17:20:56 <spenvo> luke-jr: sort of; tech news today is on, and they rarely look at the chatroom
2551 2011-03-09 17:21:01 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, if you want a bunch of idiots to know about bitcoin that's easy
2552 2011-03-09 17:21:02 <TD> "this week in google"?
2553 2011-03-09 17:21:08 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, but really is that a plus?
2554 2011-03-09 17:21:13 slush is now known as MM
2555 2011-03-09 17:21:18 TD has left ("Ex-Chat")
2556 2011-03-09 17:21:18 <Necr0s> yes td.
2557 2011-03-09 17:21:23 TD has joined
2558 2011-03-09 17:21:30 <luke-jr> TD: yes
2559 2011-03-09 17:21:30 MM is now known as MysteryMiner
2560 2011-03-09 17:21:45 <Diablo-D3> slush: hurr
2561 2011-03-09 17:21:45 <MysteryMiner> xelister: please try to change nick to slush
2562 2011-03-09 17:21:49 <TD> i dunno. it's really not a big effort by us. like i said it's just a 20% project.
2563 2011-03-09 17:21:52 Diablo-D3 is now known as slush
2564 2011-03-09 17:21:56 <slush> now _I_ am the master!
2565 2011-03-09 17:21:57 <TD> maybe it'll grow in future. *maybe*. big if.
2566 2011-03-09 17:22:01 slush is now known as Diablo-D3
2567 2011-03-09 17:22:09 <TD> twig is probably about other stuff
2568 2011-03-09 17:22:11 MysteryMiner is now known as slush
2569 2011-03-09 17:22:18 <spenvo> phantomcircuit: yes it's a plus, because idiots spend money. what is bitcoin just for smart people?  how elitist are you?
2570 2011-03-09 17:22:23 <slush> Diablo-D3: did nickserv ask you for password?
2571 2011-03-09 17:22:26 <Diablo-D3> slush: yes
2572 2011-03-09 17:22:28 <luke-jr> TD: can you get a memo to TWIG so we can pressure them into it?
2573 2011-03-09 17:22:30 <slush> ok
2574 2011-03-09 17:22:42 <Diablo-D3> TD: seriously, is Google trying to profit on Bitcoin?
2575 2011-03-09 17:22:45 <Diablo-D3> We have a right to know
2576 2011-03-09 17:22:47 <TD> lol
2577 2011-03-09 17:22:50 <spenvo> just twitter mention gina trapani
2578 2011-03-09 17:23:11 <phantomcircuit> spenvo, i was more referring to idiots in here less so than actually using btc
2579 2011-03-09 17:23:14 <TD> you do eh?
2580 2011-03-09 17:23:52 <Diablo-D3> TD: well, why the hell am I busting my ass trying to code stuff the bitcoin community finds useful if Google is going to come in an take control of everything
2581 2011-03-09 17:23:52 <spenvo> diablo-d3 is like my dad--he loves reading chain emails and striking up conspiracy theories
2582 2011-03-09 17:24:27 <spenvo> lol
2583 2011-03-09 17:24:28 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: just help google, its an opensource library, they aren't taking control of anything
2584 2011-03-09 17:24:35 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: we still have the mainline client
2585 2011-03-09 17:24:40 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: "just help google" is what produced Chrome.
2586 2011-03-09 17:24:45 <Diablo-D3> look how that came out
2587 2011-03-09 17:24:52 <TD> i posted about the google/bitcoin relationship in the forum already
2588 2011-03-09 17:25:00 <Diablo-D3> TD: url
2589 2011-03-09 17:25:03 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I like chrome, but what ever
2590 2011-03-09 17:25:03 <Necr0s> Google's project doesn't seem very much like yours..
2591 2011-03-09 17:25:13 <Diablo-D3> Necr0s: Im writing a client.
2592 2011-03-09 17:25:21 <TD> simply put - there isn't one. there's a TD<->bitcoin relationship and I happen to work for Google so the library is written under the companies aegis
2593 2011-03-09 17:25:26 <spenvo> out of all the major players in the tech space, it's good that google was the one to take to bitcoin - not apple
2594 2011-03-09 17:25:31 <TD> Diablo-D3: look at the bitcoinj announcement thread
2595 2011-03-09 17:25:36 <Avemo> google is as free to work on open source project as anyone else... we will have just have wait and see how really 'not evil' they are
2596 2011-03-09 17:25:37 <Diablo-D3> TD: cant find it, url
2597 2011-03-09 17:25:45 <Diablo-D3> TD: forum has worst search system ever
2598 2011-03-09 17:25:55 <spenvo> td: aren't we digging into your 20% time right now?
2599 2011-03-09 17:25:57 <luke-jr> Avemo: we already know Google is evil
2600 2011-03-09 17:25:59 <Diablo-D3> I mean, it'd be nice if I could run Bing or Yahoo on it.
2601 2011-03-09 17:26:06 <luke-jr> spenvo: IIRC 20% is on Fridays
2602 2011-03-09 17:26:15 <Necr0s> lol
2603 2011-03-09 17:26:21 <Necr0s> lager factor.
2604 2011-03-09 17:26:23 <BlueMatt> TD works at google?
2605 2011-03-09 17:26:27 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr; not all Google employees believe in days of the week though
2606 2011-03-09 17:26:40 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: even Tonal use Sunday through Saturday days
2607 2011-03-09 17:26:51 <spenvo> BlueMatt: seriously?
2608 2011-03-09 17:26:58 <spenvo> bluematt: yes
2609 2011-03-09 17:26:58 <Diablo-D3> there are Google employees that Im aware of that work through all the night hours
2610 2011-03-09 17:27:04 <Diablo-D3> and no one cares
2611 2011-03-09 17:27:08 <Diablo-D3> nor anyone should care
2612 2011-03-09 17:27:10 agorist has joined
2613 2011-03-09 17:27:27 <Diablo-D3> sigh
2614 2011-03-09 17:27:38 <Diablo-D3> this is why I wish I was rich, I'd start my own Google and work there
2615 2011-03-09 17:27:40 <mmarker> Google seems like a place that cares "did you get your shit done" and then not ask too many questions on how you went about it
2616 2011-03-09 17:27:49 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: exactly
2617 2011-03-09 17:27:58 <Diablo-D3> it was founded by people who arent total fucktards
2618 2011-03-09 17:28:01 <mmarker> My PhD advisor was like that. Kicked ass.
2619 2011-03-09 17:28:03 * Diablo-D3 EYES ORACLE
2620 2011-03-09 17:28:21 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: They're running it like how many grad students operate, it seems in a way
2621 2011-03-09 17:28:32 * Diablo-D3 sells is goog stock.
2622 2011-03-09 17:28:36 <mmarker> which, SHOCKER, was what they were doing before Google.
2623 2011-03-09 17:28:39 <nanotube> luke-jr: so disappointed in tonal... i'd have expected 16-day weeks... or at least 8. :)
2624 2011-03-09 17:28:40 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, Im too poor to own any.
2625 2011-03-09 17:28:51 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: I know people who work at Oracle. God, what a different place.
2626 2011-03-09 17:28:55 <Diablo-D3> btw, I run 3 day weeks.
2627 2011-03-09 17:29:03 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: I know former sun employees who worked at oracle
2628 2011-03-09 17:29:07 <Diablo-D3> notice I said worked
2629 2011-03-09 17:29:07 <luke-jr> nanotube: months have 16-17 days
2630 2011-03-09 17:29:15 <Diablo-D3> people are quitting left and right
2631 2011-03-09 17:29:22 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: I could see the Oracle culture crushing people.
2632 2011-03-09 17:29:25 <[Tycho]> Working is not cool.
2633 2011-03-09 17:29:33 <mmarker> Tycho: tell me about it
2634 2011-03-09 17:29:35 <Diablo-D3> well, they basically fired/force quitted all the pro-Java employees
2635 2011-03-09 17:29:46 <luke-jr> awesome
2636 2011-03-09 17:29:50 <Diablo-D3> basically any foss java project at sun is now dead
2637 2011-03-09 17:30:06 <spenvo> yea, hey diablo d3, you wont have to worry about bitcoinj, oracle will just sue b/c they allegedly have the rights to java
2638 2011-03-09 17:30:18 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: then they'll have to sue me too
2639 2011-03-09 17:30:27 <Diablo-D3> since I wrote the most used bitcoin miner, and its in java
2640 2011-03-09 17:30:35 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: Word is you're on the list. Your turn will come.
2641 2011-03-09 17:30:38 <[Tycho]> java is worthless anyway
2642 2011-03-09 17:30:48 <spenvo> tycho: heresy
2643 2011-03-09 17:30:50 <Necr0s> except for running azureus
2644 2011-03-09 17:30:53 Raulo has joined
2645 2011-03-09 17:31:00 <mmarker> I think you are infringing on the patent "Make something useful that works in Java"
2646 2011-03-09 17:31:00 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: Im on the list because I publically speak out against Oracle on an almost daily basis
2647 2011-03-09 17:31:09 <Diablo-D3> Necr0s: az is the worst code ever written in ANY language
2648 2011-03-09 17:31:12 <Diablo-D3> go use deluge you noob
2649 2011-03-09 17:31:33 <BlueMatt> does anyone know anyone more opinionated than Diablo-D3?
2650 2011-03-09 17:31:39 AmpEater has joined
2651 2011-03-09 17:31:52 <Diablo-D3> Im not opinionated, Im just trying to figure how how the hell you people got such strange ideas
2652 2011-03-09 17:31:57 <spenvo> my grandfather, who takes chain email conspiracy theories to new heights
2653 2011-03-09 17:32:01 <AmpEater> Drugs
2654 2011-03-09 17:32:07 <Diablo-D3> java isnt slow OR bloated
2655 2011-03-09 17:32:13 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, no
2656 2011-03-09 17:32:14 <Diablo-D3> az isnt a real bitcoin client
2657 2011-03-09 17:32:18 <Diablo-D3> python isnt a good language
2658 2011-03-09 17:32:32 <Diablo-D3> and google isnt actually evil, and its a microsoft plot to destroy foss
2659 2011-03-09 17:32:57 <Diablo-D3> and chrome isnt a good browser. and it never will be.
2660 2011-03-09 17:33:02 <spenvo> see what i'm saying?
2661 2011-03-09 17:33:13 <UukGoblin> and Diablo-D3 isn't stupid, and he never will be.
2662 2011-03-09 17:33:18 jericotyler has joined
2663 2011-03-09 17:33:19 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: microsoft trying to destroy foss isnt a conspiracy theory
2664 2011-03-09 17:33:31 <Diablo-D3> thats basically been proven with their mono bullshit
2665 2011-03-09 17:33:33 jericotyler is now known as jerico_pc
2666 2011-03-09 17:33:43 <Diablo-D3> HURR LETS HAND OUT FREE SOURCE AND THEN THREATEN TO SUE OVER SW PATS
2667 2011-03-09 17:33:46 <Diablo-D3> DURFA HURFA HURFFF
2668 2011-03-09 17:33:49 * UukGoblin googles "mono bullshit"
2669 2011-03-09 17:33:52 <UukGoblin> or should I bing it?
2670 2011-03-09 17:34:06 jerico_pc has quit (Client Quit)
2671 2011-03-09 17:34:08 <spenvo> diablo-d3: not all conspiracy theories are bullshit
2672 2011-03-09 17:34:20 <Diablo-D3> conspiracy implies this isnt publically known and its hidden
2673 2011-03-09 17:34:21 <Diablo-D3> its not hidden
2674 2011-03-09 17:34:23 <eps1> like the pyramids for example
2675 2011-03-09 17:34:34 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2676 2011-03-09 17:34:39 <Diablo-D3> microsoft isnt bothering to hide or cover up what mono is
2677 2011-03-09 17:34:47 <Diablo-D3> de icaza even collects a paycheck from microsoft
2678 2011-03-09 17:34:53 <luke-jr> spenvo: like Jews-did-WTC?
2679 2011-03-09 17:34:59 <Necr0s> lul
2680 2011-03-09 17:35:07 <Necr0s> or like the case where Fox News is sued for lying.
2681 2011-03-09 17:35:12 mmarker has quit (Quit: Meetings! Fun!)
2682 2011-03-09 17:35:12 <[Tycho]> Microsoft has dome more good to us than everyone else :)
2683 2011-03-09 17:35:14 <Necr0s> They don't deny it.
2684 2011-03-09 17:35:17 <Necr0s> They just argue "ain't no law against it"
2685 2011-03-09 17:35:17 <[Tycho]> *done
2686 2011-03-09 17:35:28 <spenvo> luke-jr: well, ok. yes that's true but "it's hidden" so it's a conspiracy theory
2687 2011-03-09 17:35:28 <Diablo-D3> Necr0s: the FCC thinks there may actually be a law against it
2688 2011-03-09 17:35:34 <Raulo> I checked statistics on the mystery miner. He completed 454 blocks last round. Without MM, the current difficulty would have been only 59000. If MM does not return, it is quite possible, the difficulty will go down slightly.
2689 2011-03-09 17:35:47 <luke-jr> …
2690 2011-03-09 17:35:53 <Diablo-D3> Necr0s: gross omission of material facts related to the context the news is delivered in MAY be lying.
2691 2011-03-09 17:35:55 <Avemo> ;;bc,estimate
2692 2011-03-09 17:35:55 <gribble> 69923.34728033
2693 2011-03-09 17:36:21 <UukGoblin> Raulo, how can you be sure it's /the/ only one miner?
2694 2011-03-09 17:36:35 <UukGoblin> does he transfer all bitcoins to one account?
2695 2011-03-09 17:36:41 <Raulo> Yes
2696 2011-03-09 17:36:51 <spenvo> luke-jr: that was sarcasm
2697 2011-03-09 17:36:51 <UukGoblin> ah.
2698 2011-03-09 17:36:55 <Raulo> It may be a few miners but they are all related
2699 2011-03-09 17:36:55 <UukGoblin> perhaps some b³otnet?
2700 2011-03-09 17:36:56 <Diablo-D3> are you sure its not deepbit?
2701 2011-03-09 17:37:05 <Diablo-D3> or one of the other pools?
2702 2011-03-09 17:37:12 <Raulo> It's not deepbit not other pools
2703 2011-03-09 17:37:15 * [Tycho] is surely mysteryous
2704 2011-03-09 17:37:16 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
2705 2011-03-09 17:37:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112905 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2006 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 32 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 69923.34728033
2706 2011-03-09 17:37:28 <Diablo-D3> how do you know its not?
2707 2011-03-09 17:37:31 <UukGoblin> a drop, a drop!
2708 2011-03-09 17:37:37 <luke-jr> Raulo: if they show up again, try to trace them
2709 2011-03-09 17:37:40 <ArtForz> deepit is actually pretty obvious
2710 2011-03-09 17:37:41 <Raulo> Because I know which blocks are solved by pool
2711 2011-03-09 17:37:43 <UukGoblin> BUY BUY BUY
2712 2011-03-09 17:37:45 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
2713 2011-03-09 17:37:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112907 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2004 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 75417.95603006
2714 2011-03-09 17:37:55 <UukGoblin> uhm... lol?
2715 2011-03-09 17:37:55 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
2716 2011-03-09 17:37:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112907 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2004 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 75417.95603006
2717 2011-03-09 17:38:00 <UukGoblin> changes fast
2718 2011-03-09 17:38:05 <UukGoblin> not surprising though
2719 2011-03-09 17:38:14 <Diablo-D3> maybe its TD
2720 2011-03-09 17:38:16 <luke-jr> we just had 2 blocks in under a minute :P
2721 2011-03-09 17:38:23 <slush> Diablo-D3: we know who he is
2722 2011-03-09 17:38:25 <Diablo-D3> and hes using all "one million" google computers!
2723 2011-03-09 17:38:30 <slush> Diablo-D3: used bunch of CPUs
2724 2011-03-09 17:38:33 <Diablo-D3> lol statistics fail
2725 2011-03-09 17:38:38 <phantomcircuit> ha
2726 2011-03-09 17:38:46 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
2727 2011-03-09 17:38:48 <Diablo-D3> this is why the news should all be crucified
2728 2011-03-09 17:38:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112907 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2004 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 1 day, 11 hours, 51 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 75417.95603006
2729 2011-03-09 17:38:57 <Diablo-D3> people actually believe google has 1m computers
2730 2011-03-09 17:39:09 <ArtForz> one millicomputer ?
2731 2011-03-09 17:39:12 <phantomcircuit> i think gribbles current blocks count is off by 1
2732 2011-03-09 17:39:25 <ArtForz> looks correct
2733 2011-03-09 17:39:26 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: first block == block zero.
2734 2011-03-09 17:39:31 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: so its not off by 1
2735 2011-03-09 17:39:37 <Avemo> 112907	a19c7b0133...	2011-03-09 17:27:09	9	2218.75	2.281
2736 2011-03-09 17:39:37 <Avemo> 112906	7996c29d03...	2011-03-09 17:28:19	11	2242.54	3.515
2737 2011-03-09 17:39:45 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, yeah but it's supposed to be a count, no the current blocks height
2738 2011-03-09 17:39:48 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: 112907 blocks means the 112907th has an index of 11206
2739 2011-03-09 17:39:50 <Avemo> interesting timing
2740 2011-03-09 17:39:56 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: no, it IS a count
2741 2011-03-09 17:39:58 <agorist> yea I wonder how many botnets are being used for mining
2742 2011-03-09 17:40:08 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, there are currently 112908 blocks
2743 2011-03-09 17:40:11 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: we use the same count everywhere, live with it.
2744 2011-03-09 17:40:23 <ArtForz> genesis doesn't count
2745 2011-03-09 17:40:24 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: new array[0]; array.length = 1.
2746 2011-03-09 17:40:26 <phantomcircuit> maybe it doesn't include the
2747 2011-03-09 17:40:31 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, read my mind
2748 2011-03-09 17:40:45 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: hrm. maybe it is wrong then if its -1 instead of +1
2749 2011-03-09 17:40:52 <Diablo-D3> either way, doesnt matter
2750 2011-03-09 17:41:05 <Diablo-D3> it should match what it says in my client
2751 2011-03-09 17:41:16 <ArtForz> bitcoin GUI used to show #blocks (including genesis) while rpc used height (with genesis == 0)
2752 2011-03-09 17:41:19 <Diablo-D3> its better to be consistently wrong than fix a bug in one place and not th eother
2753 2011-03-09 17:41:29 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, i understand arrays start at 0
2754 2011-03-09 17:41:40 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: yes, and the genesis block is index 0
2755 2011-03-09 17:41:45 <Diablo-D3> yet is the first block, not the zeroth
2756 2011-03-09 17:41:47 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, but it's a count
2757 2011-03-09 17:41:48 <ArtForz> back then it was decided to switch to height everywhere
2758 2011-03-09 17:41:52 <Aciid> a transaction has to go "confirmed" to showup on clearcoin?
2759 2011-03-09 17:41:56 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: why isn't it the zeroth?
2760 2011-03-09 17:41:56 <phantomcircuit> so it's 1 less than it should be
2761 2011-03-09 17:42:02 <eps1> is count an SI unit?
2762 2011-03-09 17:42:09 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: because english doesnt work that way
2763 2011-03-09 17:42:10 <Raulo> By the way. If you haven't seen it, the MM hashrate: http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
2764 2011-03-09 17:42:10 <luke-jr> eps1: DEATH TO SI
2765 2011-03-09 17:42:13 <ArtForz> yes
2766 2011-03-09 17:42:14 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: yes it does
2767 2011-03-09 17:42:19 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt
2768 2011-03-09 17:42:21 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: yes it does
2769 2011-03-09 17:42:30 <Diablo-D3> although Ive gotten to the point where yes it does internally
2770 2011-03-09 17:42:32 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: never heard of the Zeroth Law?
2771 2011-03-09 17:42:51 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: which has to do with AI which is a computing project which is actually a hilarious injoke
2772 2011-03-09 17:43:17 <spenvo> dudes, i'm battling idiots in live.twit.tv
2773 2011-03-09 17:43:21 <Diablo-D3> its along the lines of "neo, you are The One" "but I dont wanna be second!"
2774 2011-03-09 17:43:31 <spenvo> <jdankanyin> spenvo bitcoin is a con not sure what the reason is for them to use a power of a super computer
2775 2011-03-09 17:43:37 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2776 2011-03-09 17:43:42 <spenvo> that was from live.twit..irc
2777 2011-03-09 17:43:47 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: lol
2778 2011-03-09 17:43:55 <spenvo> lol
2779 2011-03-09 17:43:57 <Diablo-D3> is jdankayin another google employee?
2780 2011-03-09 17:44:31 <Diablo-D3> if so, TD should go smack him
2781 2011-03-09 17:44:32 <Diablo-D3> lololol
2782 2011-03-09 17:44:36 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no
2783 2011-03-09 17:44:37 <spenvo> lol, no, this might be a lost cause.  my plan is to wait until leo is on air. he's not an idiot
2784 2011-03-09 17:44:43 <luke-jr> jdankayin lives in RI
2785 2011-03-09 17:44:47 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: leo is an idiot.
2786 2011-03-09 17:45:16 <spenvo> this just in from live.twit.irc "<jdankanyin> luke-jr thats what bitcoin is a supercomputer basicly with all the nodes"
2787 2011-03-09 17:45:19 <Diablo-D3> leo laporte is a fucking goddamned idiot
2788 2011-03-09 17:45:35 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: is this an actual irc server? whats the address
2789 2011-03-09 17:45:45 <spenvo> http://irc.twit.tv/
2790 2011-03-09 17:45:59 <Diablo-D3> thats not an irc server!
2791 2011-03-09 17:46:01 <spenvo> diablo-d3: you'd really fit in over there :)
2792 2011-03-09 17:46:19 Blitzboom has joined
2793 2011-03-09 17:46:19 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2794 2011-03-09 17:46:19 Blitzboom has joined
2795 2011-03-09 17:46:30 <Diablo-D3> ooh they're running irc on that host
2796 2011-03-09 17:46:32 <Diablo-D3> what channel
2797 2011-03-09 17:46:35 <Diablo-D3> #twit?
2798 2011-03-09 17:47:11 <Diablo-D3> nope thats not it
2799 2011-03-09 17:47:29 <Diablo-D3> #twitlive apparently
2800 2011-03-09 17:48:34 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2801 2011-03-09 17:49:11 <spenvo> lol, the conversation over there is hilarious, diablo d3 starts out with "<Diablo-D3> wow jdankanyin sounds like a troll" lol
2802 2011-03-09 17:51:22 <Diablo-D3> spenvo: yes
2803 2011-03-09 17:51:22 <Diablo-D3> but
2804 2011-03-09 17:51:26 hozer has joined
2805 2011-03-09 17:51:31 <Diablo-D3> the coup de gras
2806 2011-03-09 17:51:39 <Diablo-D3> [12:40:58] <Diablo-D3> for those who want to know more about bitcoin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs go to 42:00
2807 2011-03-09 17:51:47 <Diablo-D3> [12:41:21] <Diablo-D3> thats one of the Security Now videos, part of the twit family, apparently
2808 2011-03-09 17:52:17 <spenvo> yes, today, bitcoin will rise!
2809 2011-03-09 17:52:22 <hozer> hah
2810 2011-03-09 17:53:14 <Diablo-D3> you know
2811 2011-03-09 17:53:29 <UukGoblin> BUY BUY.. buy... right? or should I sell?
2812 2011-03-09 17:53:29 <Diablo-D3> I'd rather have Google get into bitcoin
2813 2011-03-09 17:53:31 <Diablo-D3> than thes idiots
2814 2011-03-09 17:53:41 <Diablo-D3> at least then I'd be surrounded by clueful individuals
2815 2011-03-09 17:54:30 <spenvo> ah, and the moderators seem to be killing the bitcoin convo
2816 2011-03-09 17:54:48 <Diablo-D3> Im sitll there
2817 2011-03-09 17:55:13 <luke-jr> wow
2818 2011-03-09 17:55:15 <spenvo> haha, yea, you'll probably be banned forever in about 5 secs
2819 2011-03-09 17:55:20 <luke-jr> this guy is actually sending me 550 BTC for $200 USD
2820 2011-03-09 17:55:29 <hozer> hah
2821 2011-03-09 17:55:33 <hozer> market overproduction ;)
2822 2011-03-09 17:55:34 <spenvo> no he isn't, is he really?
2823 2011-03-09 17:55:43 <Diablo-D3> well they cant ban me for it
2824 2011-03-09 17:55:56 <Diablo-D3> I just posted the url about the twit video that estoles the virtues of bitcoin
2825 2011-03-09 17:56:00 <luke-jr> spenvo: I'll believe it when I see it
2826 2011-03-09 17:56:17 <Diablo-D3> [12:45:46] <Diablo-D3> if you're going to say bitcoin is a scam, you might as well call twit a scam
2827 2011-03-09 17:56:20 <Diablo-D3> I am a bad bad person
2828 2011-03-09 17:56:40 <spenvo> luke-jr: don't be gullible: how can you own 550 bitcoins and not know what they're worth
2829 2011-03-09 17:57:12 <luke-jr> spenvo: he said he mined a long time ago
2830 2011-03-09 17:57:21 <luke-jr> spenvo: also, he's sending half before I pay :D
2831 2011-03-09 17:57:24 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: can I haz some? :<
2832 2011-03-09 17:57:50 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: define some
2833 2011-03-09 17:58:06 <agorist> Diablo, that interview about bitcom was horrible
2834 2011-03-09 17:58:11 <agorist> the guy could barely talk
2835 2011-03-09 17:58:23 * hozer listens to this twit thing
2836 2011-03-09 17:58:32 <hozer> it's um... silly?
2837 2011-03-09 17:58:44 <luke-jr> wait a sec
2838 2011-03-09 17:58:46 <hozer> it's like computer geeks try to be newsguys
2839 2011-03-09 17:58:48 <luke-jr> this guy has an @paypal.com email
2840 2011-03-09 17:59:02 <luke-jr> I ain't paying him with PayPal…
2841 2011-03-09 17:59:12 <luke-jr> he'll close my account :x
2842 2011-03-09 18:00:51 <Zarutian> luke-jr: what kind of email? @.com? and paying him with what, please?
2843 2011-03-09 18:01:04 <luke-jr> …
2844 2011-03-09 18:02:05 <hozer> what is this mention of mining contracts
2845 2011-03-09 18:02:22 <sipa> hozer: you pay for renting hardware, and get the rewards in bitcoins
2846 2011-03-09 18:03:06 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol it's a trap
2847 2011-03-09 18:03:09 <luke-jr> sipa: do you get to set mining policies too?
2848 2011-03-09 18:03:09 <Avemo> must be this http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2883.0
2849 2011-03-09 18:03:23 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: yeah, I might send him a check instead
2850 2011-03-09 18:04:12 <luke-jr> I haven't seen the tx he claims he sent yet though
2851 2011-03-09 18:04:45 <luke-jr> does the wx client show txid?
2852 2011-03-09 18:04:50 <hozer> luke-jr: do you have a physical address , and are you in the same country?
2853 2011-03-09 18:05:02 <luke-jr> hozer: ?
2854 2011-03-09 18:05:13 <hozer> for who you're doing this exchange with
2855 2011-03-09 18:05:22 <luke-jr> I'll just tell him straight out, that I can send the bitcoins back, or he can give me an address to mail a check
2856 2011-03-09 18:05:43 <hozer> did you get the half BTC already?
2857 2011-03-09 18:05:50 <luke-jr> he said he sent it
2858 2011-03-09 18:05:54 <luke-jr> but I don't see it yet
2859 2011-03-09 18:06:07 <spenvo> yeah, his brother is a nigerian prince too
2860 2011-03-09 18:06:18 <[Tycho]> Imaginary bitcoins, yay
2861 2011-03-09 18:06:23 <hozer> hah... get a physical address to send a check to
2862 2011-03-09 18:06:25 <luke-jr> I asked him for the txid
2863 2011-03-09 18:06:32 <luke-jr> does the wx client show that?
2864 2011-03-09 18:07:03 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, uh lemme see
2865 2011-03-09 18:07:15 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, how much BTC should it be ?
2866 2011-03-09 18:07:25 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: total?
2867 2011-03-09 18:07:28 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
2868 2011-03-09 18:07:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112909 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2002 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 28 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 74708.23566247
2869 2011-03-09 18:07:32 <[Tycho]> No, this part.
2870 2011-03-09 18:07:44 <luke-jr> 275
2871 2011-03-09 18:08:05 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, no it doesnt show the tx id
2872 2011-03-09 18:08:07 <[Tycho]> He is lying, may be. http://www.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
2873 2011-03-09 18:08:12 <phantomcircuit> the wx gui is basically useless
2874 2011-03-09 18:08:26 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that page is as useful as my bitcoin client -.-
2875 2011-03-09 18:08:42 <[Tycho]> Or it's 188 :)
2876 2011-03-09 18:08:43 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, how much did he say it was for?
2877 2011-03-09 18:08:53 <phantomcircuit> oh 275
2878 2011-03-09 18:11:34 <luke-jr> [13:02:20] <jdankanyin> 7qwfrv65itrb
2879 2011-03-09 18:11:37 <phantomcircuit> huh i just realized i dont have any txs not attached to a block
2880 2011-03-09 18:11:38 <luke-jr> yeah, he's BSing me
2881 2011-03-09 18:11:43 <phantomcircuit> that's got to be a bug
2882 2011-03-09 18:12:12 <phantomcircuit> oh nvm that's wrong
2883 2011-03-09 18:12:17 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah he's full of shit
2884 2011-03-09 18:13:33 <spenvo> ok, i've had my fun for one day, cya later guys
2885 2011-03-09 18:13:58 spenvo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2886 2011-03-09 18:14:34 <luke-jr> [13:03:01] <jdankanyin> what client you using
2887 2011-03-09 18:14:36 <luke-jr> [13:03:07] <luke-jr> Spesmilo
2888 2011-03-09 18:14:37 <luke-jr> [13:03:25] <jdankanyin> yep im on same one
2889 2011-03-09 18:14:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the last tx for 275.0 BTC was sent on 3/1/11
2890 2011-03-09 18:15:49 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you're too rushed. a real tx could take minutes to appear on any unconfirmed tx list
2891 2011-03-09 18:16:28 <phantomcircuit> eh for testing im currently connected to about half the network
2892 2011-03-09 18:16:31 <phantomcircuit> so uh
2893 2011-03-09 18:16:34 <ArtForz> it... shouldnt
2894 2011-03-09 18:16:37 <phantomcircuit> i think id have seen it by now
2895 2011-03-09 18:17:16 * luke-jr has 2 pending tx that aren't on any of your lists :P
2896 2011-03-09 18:17:43 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, ?
2897 2011-03-09 18:17:49 <xelister> slush: already taken name of course
2898 2011-03-09 18:17:53 <luke-jr> one for 1 TBC, and the other for 9 TBC
2899 2011-03-09 18:17:54 <phantomcircuit> what because you havent sent them to the network yet?
2900 2011-03-09 18:17:54 <luke-jr> no fees\
2901 2011-03-09 18:17:56 <xelister> [18:12] <MysteryMiner> xelister: please try to change nick to slush
2902 2011-03-09 18:18:01 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I have, but nobody relays them
2903 2011-03-09 18:18:06 <phantomcircuit> oh
2904 2011-03-09 18:18:21 <Kiba> what does FatherMcGruder mean by exploitation?
2905 2011-03-09 18:18:23 <luke-jr> so they'll probably wait around till my next block
2906 2011-03-09 18:18:33 <Kiba> isn't everyone supposed to know that the business owner gottach make a profit?
2907 2011-03-09 18:19:09 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, usually what people mean by exploitation is, BAW THE JANITOR SHOULD MAKE JUST AS MUCH AS THE SCIENTIST
2908 2011-03-09 18:19:17 <phantomcircuit> generally speaking
2909 2011-03-09 18:19:31 <phantomcircuit> ironically the janitors make more than the teachers in most schools
2910 2011-03-09 18:19:33 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2911 2011-03-09 18:20:12 <Kiba> FatherMcGruder hates all form of interest and profit, apperantly
2912 2011-03-09 18:20:29 farzong has joined
2913 2011-03-09 18:20:32 <farzong> werdup
2914 2011-03-09 18:20:35 <Kiba> I am like "FUCK YOU"
2915 2011-03-09 18:20:38 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, who is that?
2916 2011-03-09 18:21:08 <xelister> "NVIDIA outlined a plan to become 'the computing company,' moving well beyond its traditional focus on graphics and into high-profile areas such as supercomputing. NVIDIA is making heavy investments in several fields.
2917 2011-03-09 18:21:11 <xelister> fags
2918 2011-03-09 18:21:15 <Kiba> phantomcircuit: a forum goer on the bitcoin forum
2919 2011-03-09 18:21:22 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, oh
2920 2011-03-09 18:21:56 <farzong> mars has been transformed into a giant sha-256 machine
2921 2011-03-09 18:22:15 <Kiba> phantomcircuit: he hate capitalism and all
2922 2011-03-09 18:22:33 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, meh
2923 2011-03-09 18:22:42 <phantomcircuit> it's not worth your time to argue with people who hate profit
2924 2011-03-09 18:22:49 <phantomcircuit> they're universally irrational
2925 2011-03-09 18:22:50 <xelister> "A new technology from Intel called ray tracing could bring lifelike images and improved 3D effects to games ..."     WHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAT?  who the fuck written this, 9 year old?  "Ray Tracing" is a new technology??? FUUUUUU
2926 2011-03-09 18:22:58 <phantomcircuit> xelister, lol /.
2927 2011-03-09 18:23:13 <luke-jr> lol
2928 2011-03-09 18:23:17 <xelister> fucking moron
2929 2011-03-09 18:23:18 <xelister> s
2930 2011-03-09 18:23:25 <ArtForz> where did you find that? news for idiots?
2931 2011-03-09 18:23:32 * farzong swings around a vacuum tube
2932 2011-03-09 18:23:38 <EvanR-work> rofl
2933 2011-03-09 18:23:45 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, yes /.
2934 2011-03-09 18:23:48 <xelister> ArtForz: pcworld from ./
2935 2011-03-09 18:23:53 <xelister> http://www.pcworld.com/article/221418/intel_hopes_to_boost_cloud_gaming_with_ray_tracing.html
2936 2011-03-09 18:23:59 <Kiba> question:
2937 2011-03-09 18:24:04 <xelister> wait, pcworld is computer news for idiot afair?
2938 2011-03-09 18:24:07 <Kiba> can I eat ham uncooked?
2939 2011-03-09 18:24:12 <ArtForz> it is
2940 2011-03-09 18:24:16 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, depends on the ham
2941 2011-03-09 18:24:17 <Kiba> or do I have to cook the ham before I c an make it into a sandwich?
2942 2011-03-09 18:24:22 <Kiba> I got cured ham
2943 2011-03-09 18:24:28 <xelister> Kiba: yes, you and your newfound tapeworm will love this idea
2944 2011-03-09 18:24:32 <Diablo-D3> back
2945 2011-03-09 18:24:36 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, you might want to google cured
2946 2011-03-09 18:24:38 <Diablo-D3> did I miss anything in #twitlive?
2947 2011-03-09 18:25:21 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, most cured meat is actually flash pasteurized
2948 2011-03-09 18:25:29 blahah has joined
2949 2011-03-09 18:25:31 <phantomcircuit> and you can eat almost all of it without cooking
2950 2011-03-09 18:25:38 <Kiba> seem like
2951 2011-03-09 18:25:48 <Kiba> I have to cook it
2952 2011-03-09 18:25:52 <Kiba> the cured ham
2953 2011-03-09 18:26:14 <xelister> ArtForz: we start to think it was copied from *gasp* intell's officiall release or something. or nvidia's / gpu farms
2954 2011-03-09 18:26:37 <EvanR-work> guys i just invented bump mapping
2955 2011-03-09 18:26:56 <xelister> because many sites have this exact quoted text
2956 2011-03-09 18:27:10 <Avemo> I just invented HTTP than
2957 2011-03-09 18:27:10 amiller has joined
2958 2011-03-09 18:27:23 <EvanR-work> Avemo: dude that sounds awesome
2959 2011-03-09 18:27:37 <xelister> I invented an Communication Device that can send MMS. I will call it iPhone 5.
2960 2011-03-09 18:27:38 devon_hillard has joined
2961 2011-03-09 18:27:38 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
2962 2011-03-09 18:27:38 devon_hillard has joined
2963 2011-03-09 18:27:52 <sipa> ladies and gentlemen, i present you:
2964 2011-03-09 18:27:53 <sipa> O
2965 2011-03-09 18:27:56 <sipa> (the wheel)
2966 2011-03-09 18:28:01 <Avemo> I just invented a wheel and fire
2967 2011-03-09 18:28:17 <BlueMatt> thats a lopsided wheel
2968 2011-03-09 18:28:22 <Avemo> lol I just invented sex!
2969 2011-03-09 18:28:29 <EvanR-work> youd think i inveted sex
2970 2011-03-09 18:28:35 <BlueMatt> ○
2971 2011-03-09 18:28:37 <sipa> BlueMatt: it needs perfection
2972 2011-03-09 18:28:40 <BlueMatt> I have a real wheel :)
2973 2011-03-09 18:28:40 <sipa> wow, nice!
2974 2011-03-09 18:28:54 <sipa> no no, that is just a bunch of pixels (another invention of mine, btw)
2975 2011-03-09 18:29:12 <hozer> hrrm, so what's the bitcoin <-> sex exchange rate?
2976 2011-03-09 18:29:23 <sipa> 42
2977 2011-03-09 18:29:27 <sipa> unit unknown
2978 2011-03-09 18:29:38 * Kiba doesn't know if he can eat ham
2979 2011-03-09 18:29:41 <Avemo> depends on locality aparently
2980 2011-03-09 18:29:43 <Kiba> without cooking it
2981 2011-03-09 18:29:44 <hozer> HAH
2982 2011-03-09 18:29:46 <Kiba> it said cure
2983 2011-03-09 18:30:07 <phantomcircuit> Avemo, i believe you've missed the joke
2984 2011-03-09 18:30:12 <Kiba> oh well
2985 2011-03-09 18:30:14 <hozer> Kiba: do you have the ability to see the farm the ham came from?
2986 2011-03-09 18:30:18 <Kiba> no
2987 2011-03-09 18:30:19 <phantomcircuit> Avemo, the joke is that you do something and have thus invented it
2988 2011-03-09 18:30:27 <phantomcircuit> Avemo, thus you have clearly not invented sex
2989 2011-03-09 18:30:29 <Diablo-D3> apparently nvidia is "bad language"
2990 2011-03-09 18:30:35 <EvanR-work> i patented sex, please pay me
2991 2011-03-09 18:30:43 <Avemo> lol
2992 2011-03-09 18:30:44 <phantomcircuit> EvanR-work, i bet you could do that
2993 2011-03-09 18:30:50 <BlueMatt> I patented english, you all must send me 0.01 btc
2994 2011-03-09 18:30:53 <EvanR-work> i wouldnt be surprised
2995 2011-03-09 18:30:55 <phantomcircuit> they're giving out patents for biological process discovery now
2996 2011-03-09 18:30:57 <Diablo-D3> either I got banned on #twitlive for saying spinrite is pointless, I do this for free on linux
2997 2011-03-09 18:30:58 lfm has joined
2998 2011-03-09 18:30:59 <sipa> EvanR-work: wouldn't be too hard to file for prior art, i feat
2999 2011-03-09 18:31:05 <Diablo-D3> or I got banned for saying nvidia is scamming customers
3000 2011-03-09 18:31:07 <hozer> Kiba: if you can't see the farm, cook it ;)
3001 2011-03-09 18:31:26 <Diablo-D3> so fuck that channel
3002 2011-03-09 18:31:28 <ArtForz> well, spinrite is useful, if you have MFM or RLL disks ;)
3003 2011-03-09 18:31:28 * edcba_ invented a new breverage : the beer, it could revolutionize parties making your guests dizzy and having fun !!!
3004 2011-03-09 18:31:31 <Diablo-D3> TD: so hows shit going?
3005 2011-03-09 18:31:32 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: most people, especially #twitlive, dont like highly opinionated people
3006 2011-03-09 18:31:36 Lachesis has joined
3007 2011-03-09 18:31:50 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: I dont like people who attack the hard work of others.
3008 2011-03-09 18:31:54 <Diablo-D3> viva la floss
3009 2011-03-09 18:32:20 <EvanR-work> i attack people who dig holes and fill them in for no reason
3010 2011-03-09 18:32:42 <EvanR-work> they should be fixing broken graphics drivers
3011 2011-03-09 18:32:45 <Diablo-D3> EvanR-work: I usually put a dead body in before filling it in, but hey
3012 2011-03-09 18:32:54 _W_ has joined
3013 2011-03-09 18:33:02 <EvanR-work> hmm
3014 2011-03-09 18:33:42 <ArtForz> the guy planting the trees probably called in sick
3015 2011-03-09 18:34:07 <EvanR-work> sounds like reasons
3016 2011-03-09 18:34:17 <Diablo-D3> but yeah
3017 2011-03-09 18:34:22 <Diablo-D3> fuck. this. shit.
3018 2011-03-09 18:35:13 <Diablo-D3> I should work more on my pool impl
3019 2011-03-09 18:36:24 <Kiba> are you supposed to cook ham in an oven?
3020 2011-03-09 18:36:38 <Diablo-D3> yes.
3021 2011-03-09 18:37:21 <xelister> hozer: 40 btc/blowjob
3022 2011-03-09 18:37:46 <xelister> BlueMatt: I like ur wheel
3023 2011-03-09 18:38:16 <phantomcircuit> xelister, expensive bj
3024 2011-03-09 18:38:17 <xelister> why is slashdot not ./  dotslash
3025 2011-03-09 18:38:23 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7tKAi-lDhM
3026 2011-03-09 18:38:24 <xelister> then it would be like "Right here"
3027 2011-03-09 18:38:25 <Diablo-D3> the fuck
3028 2011-03-09 18:38:44 <xelister> Kiba: unless you want the tapewarm and alikes =)
3029 2011-03-09 18:38:59 <lfm> Diablo-D3: I thot you were gonna work on your pool?
3030 2011-03-09 18:39:11 <Diablo-D3> lfm: too busy going wtf
3031 2011-03-09 18:39:34 <lfm> procrastinating on youtube huh
3032 2011-03-09 18:39:56 <luke-jr> if I was gonna scam someone, I'd at least send the amount to myself so it appeared on the block chain XD
3033 2011-03-09 18:40:09 <phantomcircuit> xelister, pork in the US rarely is infected with crap like that
3034 2011-03-09 18:40:16 RazielZ has joined
3035 2011-03-09 18:40:22 <agorist> what.the.fuck @ this
3036 2011-03-09 18:40:31 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
3037 2011-03-09 18:40:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112911 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2000 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 53 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66267.07646732
3038 2011-03-09 18:40:44 <xelister> 66 k next diff. HELL YEA
3039 2011-03-09 18:40:57 <luke-jr> xelister: rather 1k
3040 2011-03-09 18:41:38 <sipa> around 70k is reasonable i think
3041 2011-03-09 18:41:55 <EvanR-work> diff reduction good
3042 2011-03-09 18:41:59 <EvanR-work> for me
3043 2011-03-09 18:42:00 <hozer> difficulty is going to drop?
3044 2011-03-09 18:42:19 blahah has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3045 2011-03-09 18:42:33 <ArtForz> depends, if the MM comes back it probably won't ...
3046 2011-03-09 18:42:34 <sipa> maybe
3047 2011-03-09 18:42:53 <hozer> I thought it always went up, or did Art turn off his ASICs
3048 2011-03-09 18:43:04 <hozer> what is the MM
3049 2011-03-09 18:43:12 <EvanR-work> well this is annoying were stuck with too high difficulty for 2.5 weeks?
3050 2011-03-09 18:43:21 <ArtForz> the Mysterious Miner
3051 2011-03-09 18:43:40 anarchist has joined
3052 2011-03-09 18:43:41 <sipa> maybe we'll have 2 weeks of slow blocks, yes
3053 2011-03-09 18:43:49 <sipa> but not very slow ones
3054 2011-03-09 18:43:52 <EvanR-work> thats ass
3055 2011-03-09 18:43:55 <ArtForz> 100-200Ghps suddenly joining and leaving
3056 2011-03-09 18:44:06 anarchist is now known as Guest51874
3057 2011-03-09 18:44:15 <sipa> ArtForz: may have been 400GH/s as well at its peak
3058 2011-03-09 18:44:19 <Guest51874> any ops around to kill my nick!
3059 2011-03-09 18:44:32 <ArtForz> sipa: could be
3060 2011-03-09 18:44:33 <EvanR-work> ghost kick
3061 2011-03-09 18:44:51 <molecular> ;;bc,calc 666666
3062 2011-03-09 18:44:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 666666 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5 days, 16 hours, 21 minutes, and 16 seconds
3063 2011-03-09 18:44:54 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ZxldeB43M
3064 2011-03-09 18:44:57 <Diablo-D3> oh god what
3065 2011-03-09 18:44:57 <sipa> we're close to 400GH/s total network speed again now
3066 2011-03-09 18:45:01 <Diablo-D3> my mind is melting
3067 2011-03-09 18:45:01 <ArtForz> dump all mm-looking blocks w/ timestamps and do a graph ;)
3068 2011-03-09 18:45:09 <sipa> ArtForz: Raulo did that
3069 2011-03-09 18:45:20 <hozer> how do you find an MM-looking block
3070 2011-03-09 18:45:27 <ArtForz> magic!
3071 2011-03-09 18:45:36 <ArtForz> coinbase is different
3072 2011-03-09 18:45:51 <sipa> http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
3073 2011-03-09 18:45:52 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3074 2011-03-09 18:46:07 <sipa> he wasn't exactly very careful in covering his tracks
3075 2011-03-09 18:46:49 <Guest51874> is mystery miner a botnet?!
3076 2011-03-09 18:46:52 <ArtForz> looks... weird
3077 2011-03-09 18:46:53 <sipa> maybe
3078 2011-03-09 18:46:58 <hozer> hrrm.. so are they invalide blocks with different coinbase?
3079 2011-03-09 18:47:06 agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3080 2011-03-09 18:47:07 <sipa> no, they're perfectly valid
3081 2011-03-09 18:47:08 Guest51874 is now known as agorist
3082 2011-03-09 18:47:15 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 10000000000
3083 2011-03-09 18:47:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 32 seconds
3084 2011-03-09 18:47:19 <sipa> just not precisely what a default setup would do
3085 2011-03-09 18:47:19 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 10000000000000
3086 2011-03-09 18:47:21 <gribble> Error: '0.0327250613799' is not a valid integer.
3087 2011-03-09 18:47:23 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 1000000000000
3088 2011-03-09 18:47:25 <gribble> Error: '0.327250613799' is not a valid integer.
3089 2011-03-09 18:47:26 <xelister> ;;bc,calc 100000000000
3090 2011-03-09 18:47:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 seconds
3091 2011-03-09 18:47:32 <xelister> Enterprise. Fuck yea.
3092 2011-03-09 18:47:53 <Kiba> what?
3093 2011-03-09 18:47:58 <sipa> hozer: the coinbase is just a random string of bytes to make generated transactions unique
3094 2011-03-09 18:48:01 <xelister> Kiba: Enterprise core computer
3095 2011-03-09 18:48:15 <sipa> the default setup produces 7-byte coinbases, MM produced 8-byte coinbases
3096 2011-03-09 18:48:31 <hozer> ah, okay.
3097 2011-03-09 18:48:39 <BlueMatt> wasn't smart
3098 2011-03-09 18:48:44 <BlueMatt> maybe its compute4cash?
3099 2011-03-09 18:48:54 <ArtForz> possible
3100 2011-03-09 18:49:30 <phantomcircuit> oh snap
3101 2011-03-09 18:49:35 <phantomcircuit> i bet it is compute4cash
3102 2011-03-09 18:49:46 <BlueMatt> no, they claim to still be going
3103 2011-03-09 18:49:47 <xelister> <ArtForz>  possible.                                 (it's my private miner actually, hihihi)
3104 2011-03-09 18:50:43 <hozer> I'd like to see if ArtForz' power bill correlates with the mystery miner ;)
3105 2011-03-09 18:51:04 <ArtForz> it *could* be compute4cash
3106 2011-03-09 18:51:09 <sipa> i doubt it
3107 2011-03-09 18:51:10 <ArtForz> the timing looks roughly correct
3108 2011-03-09 18:51:18 <sipa> wouldn't be so irregular
3109 2011-03-09 18:51:19 <ArtForz> but total hashrate is *way* high
3110 2011-03-09 18:51:19 <xelister> <ArtForz> it *could* be compute4cash                               (it's my private miner actually, hihihihihi)
3111 2011-03-09 18:51:21 <BlueMatt> but they claim to still be going
3112 2011-03-09 18:51:47 <ArtForz> maybe they fixed their coinbases?
3113 2011-03-09 18:51:51 AmpEater has joined
3114 2011-03-09 18:52:10 <ArtForz> nm
3115 2011-03-09 18:52:39 <BlueMatt> is mm still proxying their stuff through gavinandresen's node?
3116 2011-03-09 18:52:59 <ArtForz> nope, seems to have stopped completely
3117 2011-03-09 18:53:05 <sipa> it seems MM isn't running anymore at all
3118 2011-03-09 18:53:21 <BlueMatt> gave up after we started to find him out
3119 2011-03-09 18:53:22 <sipa> which also explains the hashrate drop
3120 2011-03-09 18:53:36 <hozer> anyone want to bet me bitcoin they start up again immediately after the hashrate drops?
3121 2011-03-09 18:54:01 <sipa> you mean after the difficulty drops?
3122 2011-03-09 18:54:08 <hozer> err, yes, sorry
3123 2011-03-09 18:54:22 <sipa> could be
3124 2011-03-09 18:54:33 <ArtForz> sounds like a stupid plan
3125 2011-03-09 18:54:39 <AmpEater> Wait, you mean most of this network increase was 1 guy?
3126 2011-03-09 18:54:45 <sipa> yes
3127 2011-03-09 18:55:05 <sipa> it certainly looks like it
3128 2011-03-09 18:55:14 <AmpEater> Do we have info on the asic guys setup?
3129 2011-03-09 18:55:16 <ArtForz> well, 1 guy/pool/botnet/whatever
3130 2011-03-09 18:55:41 <sipa> Raulo traced those strange coinbase blocks to be coming from mostly one IP
3131 2011-03-09 18:55:52 <AmpEater> That changes my perceptions of the increase meaning higher acceptance
3132 2011-03-09 18:55:56 sabalaba has joined
3133 2011-03-09 18:56:04 <AmpEater> Hmmmm
3134 2011-03-09 18:56:13 <sipa> but if it is a botnet, i must have been something like a 100000 machine one
3135 2011-03-09 18:56:13 <BlueMatt> someone found out about this from all the media attention and started up their supercomputer
3136 2011-03-09 18:56:18 <ArtForz> I have 12.8Ghps of ASICs online, another 6.4 to assemble into a 1U box and ordered another 19.2
3137 2011-03-09 18:56:29 <AmpEater> That's you huh?
3138 2011-03-09 18:56:40 <ArtForz> *2U box
3139 2011-03-09 18:56:42 <sipa> AmpEater: MM did 400GH/s at his peak
3140 2011-03-09 18:56:46 <ArtForz> yeah
3141 2011-03-09 18:56:48 <ArtForz> thats... a lot
3142 2011-03-09 18:56:57 <AmpEater> I see....interesting
3143 2011-03-09 18:56:58 <sipa> that more than 10x what ArtForz has :)
3144 2011-03-09 18:57:03 <ArtForz> yep
3145 2011-03-09 18:57:05 <AmpEater> Right
3146 2011-03-09 18:57:11 <ArtForz> a 100knode botnet woudl sound about right
3147 2011-03-09 18:57:12 <AmpEater> I like a mystery
3148 2011-03-09 18:57:29 <ArtForz> or a pretty damn big GPU cluster
3149 2011-03-09 18:57:30 <hozer> so I get maybe ~160W with a 5770 for ~160 Mhps
3150 2011-03-09 18:57:36 <AmpEater> Only 100,000 huh?
3151 2011-03-09 18:57:47 <hozer> so if it's radeons, that's 400KW
3152 2011-03-09 18:57:56 <AmpEater> Crazy
3153 2011-03-09 18:58:01 <ArtForz> not really
3154 2011-03-09 18:58:02 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, or a 2k node botnet with decent gfx cards
3155 2011-03-09 18:58:18 <ArtForz> actually you'd need more than just "decent GPUs" for 2knodes to be enough
3156 2011-03-09 18:58:27 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: tough to make that requirement (decent GPUs)
3157 2011-03-09 18:58:38 <hozer> 400KW would be reasonable for a ~2000-4000 node cluster
3158 2011-03-09 18:58:44 <ArtForz> '"decnet" for consumer boxes usually == 56something
3159 2011-03-09 18:58:45 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, ok 4k
3160 2011-03-09 18:58:51 <phantomcircuit> maybe 8
3161 2011-03-09 18:58:54 <farzong> whats to stop someone from purposefully excluding transactions from new blocks (to gain an advantage because the length of the block is shorter with fewer transactions and hence easier to hash)
3162 2011-03-09 18:59:12 <ArtForz> farzong: length of bllock doesnt affect hash speed. at all.
3163 2011-03-09 18:59:15 <jgarzik> farzong: the data being hashes is fixed
3164 2011-03-09 18:59:24 <jgarzik> hashed
3165 2011-03-09 18:59:34 <farzong> oh hmm i c
3166 2011-03-09 18:59:35 <ArtForz> it's 80 bytes. always.
3167 2011-03-09 18:59:53 <farzong> ok.. what if theyre just being malicious and leaving out transactions
3168 2011-03-09 18:59:56 <ArtForz> so not including transactions is somewhat counterproductive for a miner
3169 2011-03-09 19:00:27 <phantomcircuit> especially if they have fees
3170 2011-03-09 19:00:48 <hozer> so if there's a 0.01 fee, which 'miner' gets the fee, or is it split?
3171 2011-03-09 19:00:58 <luke-jr> hozer: the miner that finds the block ofc
3172 2011-03-09 19:01:04 <ArtForz> well, if enough start doing it, transactions will take longer to confirm, lowering the utility of the bitcoin network. which will probably lower market prices. why would a large *miner* want that?
3173 2011-03-09 19:01:14 <luke-jr> farzong: I leave out all transactions without fees
3174 2011-03-09 19:01:15 <farzong> good point ArtForz
3175 2011-03-09 19:01:38 <farzong> there could be a situation (political) where some faction decides to excludes transactions from <insert country X>
3176 2011-03-09 19:01:55 <phantomcircuit> so what happens if a miner includes a non standard tx in a block?
3177 2011-03-09 19:02:03 <hozer> luke-jr: ah, okay.
3178 2011-03-09 19:02:05 <ArtForz> then theres a nonstandard tx in a block
3179 2011-03-09 19:02:15 <ArtForz> we already have 2 or 3
3180 2011-03-09 19:02:28 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, yeah but will the mainline client understand it at all?
3181 2011-03-09 19:02:33 <ArtForz> yes
3182 2011-03-09 19:02:39 <luke-jr> farzong: except there's no way to tell what country sent it
3183 2011-03-09 19:02:49 <phantomcircuit> i thought the # of ops was limited
3184 2011-03-09 19:03:00 <ArtForz> it kinda somewhat is
3185 2011-03-09 19:03:01 <luke-jr> ArtForz: what happens if I include a non-standard tx that has opcodes not supported by mainline?  ;)
3186 2011-03-09 19:03:14 <ArtForz> luke-jr: iirc then the block is invalid
3187 2011-03-09 19:03:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: if a TX cannot be verified, the block is bogus
3188 2011-03-09 19:03:41 <ArtForz> well, actually I think a unverifiable output is ok
3189 2011-03-09 19:04:03 <farzong> luke-jr: im thinking of a situation where someone decides to create an RBL
3190 2011-03-09 19:04:19 <phantomcircuit> so you could potentially have btc destroyed by an invalid tx being included in a block
3191 2011-03-09 19:04:20 <phantomcircuit> ?
3192 2011-03-09 19:04:21 <farzong> real-time black list for political or other purposes
3193 2011-03-09 19:04:31 <ArtForz> huH?
3194 2011-03-09 19:04:38 <ArtForz> iirc you can use stuff like "push 0 return" as a scriptpubkey
3195 2011-03-09 19:04:49 <jgarzik> regardless of all else, (a) TX must be verified according to supplied script, and (b) inputs must be connected
3196 2011-03-09 19:04:54 <jgarzik> script can, of course, be wacky
3197 2011-03-09 19:04:59 <ArtForz> which is a completely unsignable pubkey script
3198 2011-03-09 19:05:08 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why so many useful ops are missing from script language? :?
3199 2011-03-09 19:05:15 <farzong> they decide that suspicious accounts are frozen out and placed in a blacklist.. i suppose that would essentially be a fork of the network
3200 2011-03-09 19:05:18 <jgarzik> luke-jr: easy to exploit remotely
3201 2011-03-09 19:05:34 <jgarzik> luke-jr: one attacker can cause all nodes to use CPU and RAM
3202 2011-03-09 19:05:40 <ArtForz> luke-jr: because I blew up testnet using them
3203 2011-03-09 19:05:46 <jgarzik> huge amplification attack
3204 2011-03-09 19:05:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I don't mean disabled. I mean missing.
3205 2011-03-09 19:06:02 <luke-jr> jgarzik: for example, access to current block height and time
3206 2011-03-09 19:06:05 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, bitcoind rejects txs which break it's rules, but some other client might not, so you could potentially double spend
3207 2011-03-09 19:06:37 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: not in a block
3208 2011-03-09 19:06:44 <ArtForz> sucks to be the guy running the client accepting invalid blocks/tx...
3209 2011-03-09 19:07:11 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, except the rules have changed a couple of times, have they not?
3210 2011-03-09 19:07:21 <phantomcircuit> so simply running an older client could leave you in that scenario
3211 2011-03-09 19:07:23 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 76000
3212 2011-03-09 19:07:23 <ArtForz> ... not that much
3213 2011-03-09 19:07:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 76000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 7 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 5 minutes, and 29 seconds
3214 2011-03-09 19:07:30 <ArtForz> errr... a REALLY old client
3215 2011-03-09 19:07:46 <ArtForz> the basic rules for what is a vlaid TX havent changesd since 0.3.9
3216 2011-03-09 19:07:50 <jgarzik> the rules have narrowed, not changed
3217 2011-03-09 19:08:19 <AmpEater> ;;bc,calc 3000000
3218 2011-03-09 19:08:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 day, 6 hours, 18 minutes, and 3 seconds
3219 2011-03-09 19:08:24 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, thats exactly my point
3220 2011-03-09 19:08:34 <phantomcircuit> you could get an older client to accept it as a valid tx
3221 2011-03-09 19:08:38 <phantomcircuit> but newer ones to not
3222 2011-03-09 19:08:41 <farzong> wouldnt old clients simply commit suicide if the version number is too high on the block
3223 2011-03-09 19:08:42 <phantomcircuit> and thus double spend
3224 2011-03-09 19:08:44 <farzong> or update themselves
3225 2011-03-09 19:08:45 <ArtForz> okay, what rules for tx-in-block validity have changed since 0.3.9 ?
3226 2011-03-09 19:08:58 <phantomcircuit> i have no idea
3227 2011-03-09 19:09:24 <phantomcircuit> im just ruminating
3228 2011-03-09 19:09:27 <molecular> phantomcircuit, the tx wont make it in the block chain, though
3229 2011-03-09 19:09:44 <phantomcircuit> molecular, it would if im the miner
3230 2011-03-09 19:09:56 <ArtForz> molecular: if you can find a decent miner accepting your nonstandard tx, they can
3231 2011-03-09 19:10:22 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the older client would reject it within 6 blocks
3232 2011-03-09 19:10:37 <luke-jr> because it would see the block chain reject it
3233 2011-03-09 19:10:37 <molecular> but that block would only be accepted by these special nodes... if these are <50% it wont be the longest chain for long
3234 2011-03-09 19:10:44 skeledrew1 has joined
3235 2011-03-09 19:11:00 <ArtForz> see 0.3.8 vs. 0.3.9/10 split
3236 2011-03-09 19:11:09 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so the mined block would be rejected because of the bad tx?
3237 2011-03-09 19:11:13 <ArtForz> yes
3238 2011-03-09 19:12:42 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3239 2011-03-09 19:12:42 <molecular> wow, I got 0.08 in fees for my last block
3240 2011-03-09 19:12:47 skeledrew1 is now known as skeledrew
3241 2011-03-09 19:13:20 mmarker has joined
3242 2011-03-09 19:15:50 <molecular> it seems the faucet now pays 0.01 instead of 0.0001 in fees
3243 2011-03-09 19:16:00 <molecular> hehe 20% tx fee, quite a bit
3244 2011-03-09 19:19:03 <farzong> so a new block is created, and all new tx are appended to it
3245 2011-03-09 19:19:15 <farzong> then someone creates a new block and new tx are appended to that instead
3246 2011-03-09 19:19:38 <ArtForz> MM definitely not a pool
3247 2011-03-09 19:19:58 <xelister> ArtForz: how do you know
3248 2011-03-09 19:20:02 <ArtForz> unless it's the magic pool that never pays out... http://blockexplorer.com/address/1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc
3249 2011-03-09 19:20:23 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 500000
3250 2011-03-09 19:20:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 week, 0 days, 13 hours, 48 minutes, and 21 seconds
3251 2011-03-09 19:20:31 <xelister> 1 week. fuuuuuu
3252 2011-03-09 19:20:34 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 580000
3253 2011-03-09 19:20:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 580000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 6 days, 12 hours, 43 minutes, and 45 seconds
3254 2011-03-09 19:20:53 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, magic pool that never pays out, ie computer4cash
3255 2011-03-09 19:20:58 <xelister> Now my 5970 mines as slow as a 5770 did not so long ago
3256 2011-03-09 19:21:09 <slush> molecular: I'm sending few btcs to the faucet time to time, I think it cover the fees which were spent on my pool :)
3257 2011-03-09 19:21:14 <xelister> phantomcircuit: they probably eventually pay out to mtgox?
3258 2011-03-09 19:21:27 <mmarker> xelister: They have to
3259 2011-03-09 19:21:31 <phantomcircuit> xelister, eventually they'll probably start selling
3260 2011-03-09 19:21:32 <mmarker> well, dont HAVE to
3261 2011-03-09 19:21:49 <mmarker> "That paypal money we promised you. Go F'yourself"
3262 2011-03-09 19:21:52 <slush> xelister: there is no doubt that MM is not a pool
3263 2011-03-09 19:22:02 <xelister> slush: why
3264 2011-03-09 19:22:15 <slush> xelister: because it was botnet :)
3265 2011-03-09 19:22:32 <phantomcircuit> a botnet would be a form of pool
3266 2011-03-09 19:22:34 <mmarker> Wonder how much it would cost to rent a botnet like that
3267 2011-03-09 19:22:34 <slush> or (less likely) cluster of poor nodes
3268 2011-03-09 19:22:50 <slush> phantomcircuit: he used "pool like" software
3269 2011-03-09 19:23:00 <slush> used custom getwork protocol
3270 2011-03-09 19:23:05 <mmarker> slush: I would call it a getwork proxy
3271 2011-03-09 19:23:15 <mmarker> If I understand what happened correctly.
3272 2011-03-09 19:23:52 <slush> mmarker: yes, pool is proxy with accounting, this was just proxy without any accounting on anti cheating stuff :)
3273 2011-03-09 19:23:57 <mmarker> Regardless, we now have a nice difficulty level :D
3274 2011-03-09 19:24:28 <phantomcircuit> god hulu is dumb
3275 2011-03-09 19:24:39 <phantomcircuit> the audio quality goes up with the video qualify
3276 2011-03-09 19:24:49 <phantomcircuit> even though it's only a tiny % of the overall bandwidth requirement
3277 2011-03-09 19:27:17 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3278 2011-03-09 19:27:52 spenvo has joined
3279 2011-03-09 19:28:34 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3280 2011-03-09 19:28:36 <spenvo> luke-jr: if you are in the irc.twit.tv, try listenign to the live feed at live.twit.tv so you can chime in on other things
3281 2011-03-09 19:28:48 hozer has left ()
3282 2011-03-09 19:29:33 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
3283 2011-03-09 19:30:23 skeledrew has joined
3284 2011-03-09 19:34:43 <Diablo-D3> You know.
3285 2011-03-09 19:35:02 <Diablo-D3> I should set up a fund that only accepts bitcoins
3286 2011-03-09 19:36:42 <mmarker> What kind of fund?
3287 2011-03-09 19:37:07 <lfm> the diablo defence fund?
3288 2011-03-09 19:37:18 <Aciid> hahah
3289 2011-03-09 19:37:20 <mmarker> Beer and blow fund?
3290 2011-03-09 19:37:38 <farzong> i didnt read it in the spec, but how does the client sync itself in the event it hears a transaction, adds it to the current block, but in reality the current black was just incremented (it heard the tx before the new block, when everyone else heard the new blcok then the tgx)
3291 2011-03-09 19:38:25 <lfm> farzong: it keeps the txn for the next block
3292 2011-03-09 19:38:59 <Diablo-D3> no, the do shit thats actually important to people fund.
3293 2011-03-09 19:39:32 <mmarker> So a charity fund?
3294 2011-03-09 19:39:43 <lfm> nothing is actually important, it only seems that way to some people
3295 2011-03-09 19:40:09 <farzong> so the block is created at the end of the transaction list
3296 2011-03-09 19:40:34 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: not exactly charity.
3297 2011-03-09 19:40:37 <Diablo-D3> more like "purchase"
3298 2011-03-09 19:41:37 <farzong> the winning miner decides what tx to put in the block
3299 2011-03-09 19:42:01 spenvo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3300 2011-03-09 19:42:03 <farzong> seems he could just stuff it full of his own tx, exclusing others and getting an arbitrage advantage (frontrunning)
3301 2011-03-09 19:43:21 RazielZ has quit ()
3302 2011-03-09 19:45:47 <mmarker> As for adding tx'es, the only thing that changes in the header is the merkle root, correct?
3303 2011-03-09 19:45:54 <Diablo-D3> farzong: you're doing it wrong
3304 2011-03-09 19:46:03 <Diablo-D3> farzong: what he can do is ONLY pick txes with high fees.
3305 2011-03-09 19:46:11 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: yes.
3306 2011-03-09 19:46:28 <Diablo-D3> farzong: so one of the pools could be an utter dick and jew people
3307 2011-03-09 19:46:58 <farzong> i c
3308 2011-03-09 19:47:07 <farzong> no need to be racist
3309 2011-03-09 19:47:40 <Diablo-D3> dude, dont confuse race with religion
3310 2011-03-09 19:47:46 <validus> lol
3311 2011-03-09 19:47:49 <ArtForz> lol
3312 2011-03-09 19:48:08 <farzong> selection/discrmin.. like miner sees a trade on gox, then decides screw gox, im exluding those tx from the block
3313 2011-03-09 19:48:18 <farzong> to advance his own exchange
3314 2011-03-09 19:48:20 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but thats impossible
3315 2011-03-09 19:48:28 <ArtForz> *headdesk*
3316 2011-03-09 19:48:41 <lfm> Diablo-D3: oh? so its ok to be a bigot regrading religion?
3317 2011-03-09 19:48:55 <Diablo-D3> mtgox can just generate new send to addresses on the fly
3318 2011-03-09 19:48:59 <Diablo-D3> you cant know them all
3319 2011-03-09 19:48:59 <mmarker> ArtForz: I have some cheap vodka in my desk drawer for times like these.
3320 2011-03-09 19:49:14 <ArtForz> no, but calling it racism is stupid
3321 2011-03-09 19:49:15 <Diablo-D3> lfm: dont confuse being a bigot with admitting its a good strategy.
3322 2011-03-09 19:49:33 <Diablo-D3> and besides, if you know nothing about the jewish religion, shut up
3323 2011-03-09 19:49:47 <Diablo-D3> the whole reason the stereo type has been handed down is because they are very good at securing and keeping wealth
3324 2011-03-09 19:49:52 <Diablo-D3> its been handed down through the ages.
3325 2011-03-09 19:49:52 <validus> there is nothing wrong with saying jew'd out of
3326 2011-03-09 19:50:01 <validus> even one of my good friends thats jewish says it
3327 2011-03-09 19:50:08 <Diablo-D3> validus: exactly
3328 2011-03-09 19:50:12 <validus> im a jew f u i spend money. thats his exact words
3329 2011-03-09 19:50:27 <Diablo-D3> I know jews who will readily admit jews know how to make money and keep it
3330 2011-03-09 19:50:29 <validus> you made a remark like that to him it would probably not be pretty lol
3331 2011-03-09 19:50:37 <validus> they own tv. simple jus tlook at that
3332 2011-03-09 19:50:49 <validus> they banned ipads , charge a fee for everyday of storage
3333 2011-03-09 19:50:59 <validus> oh you didnt know? tough. moneyyyyyy $$$$$
3334 2011-03-09 19:51:09 <Diablo-D3> go read the torah a few times
3335 2011-03-09 19:51:23 <Diablo-D3> tons of biblical law on the use of money
3336 2011-03-09 19:51:25 <farzong> example of how you can discriminate against an exchange (gox whatever): you watch the order flow and note the amounts moved
3337 2011-03-09 19:51:30 <ArtForz> fuck, I'm fucking awesome
3338 2011-03-09 19:51:37 <Diablo-D3> its quite literally is a jewish thing, and I salute them
3339 2011-03-09 19:51:39 <farzong> then when you see that amount pass by you exclude it from the block you gen
3340 2011-03-09 19:51:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: fuck, Im fucking awesome too
3341 2011-03-09 19:51:56 <ArtForz> laid out a bunch of differential traces for 100 ohm lines by seat of pants, 32 mil on 50 mil centers
3342 2011-03-09 19:51:59 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, yes, you're all a bunch of trolls
3343 2011-03-09 19:52:10 <ArtForz> plug that into field solver... 102 ohms
3344 2011-03-09 19:52:27 <x6763> farzong: trades on mtgox have nothing to do with transactions on the bitcoin network
3345 2011-03-09 19:52:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: fuck, I wrote a json proxy that deserializes then serializes both the json request and response
3346 2011-03-09 19:52:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and also ensures the integrity of the input
3347 2011-03-09 19:52:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: in 25 lines of java
3348 2011-03-09 19:53:16 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3349 2011-03-09 19:53:32 <ArtForz> neat
3350 2011-03-09 19:54:05 <ArtForz> having libraries that actually do what you need is... useful
3351 2011-03-09 19:54:48 <Diablo-D3> yeah.
3352 2011-03-09 19:55:04 <Diablo-D3> well, 25 real lines, theres still 9000 imports x_x
3353 2011-03-09 19:55:08 <Avemo> I can do it in 10 lines in perl
3354 2011-03-09 19:55:31 <Diablo-D3> java's one flaw: you have to import every class unless you just do *
3355 2011-03-09 19:55:57 <Diablo-D3> perl has it too, but you use modules which also use other modules and generally perl just doesnt give a fuck
3356 2011-03-09 19:56:10 <lfm> Avemo: could prolly do it in 1/2 line of APL
3357 2011-03-09 19:56:22 <Diablo-D3> Avemo: and no, its about 25 give or take too
3358 2011-03-09 19:56:30 <farzong> x6763: they do... you are buying X BTC which is transferred to your account
3359 2011-03-09 19:56:41 <Diablo-D3> Avemo: the equiv would be setting up catalyst and then writing a view that just natively parses json-rpc
3360 2011-03-09 19:56:48 <farzong> the other side is selling btc
3361 2011-03-09 19:57:09 <farzong> this transaction is going to be recorded in the block register
3362 2011-03-09 19:57:15 <Avemo> ok than
3363 2011-03-09 19:57:15 <ArtForz> pfff, I can do it in 0 lines in jsonserdeslang
3364 2011-03-09 19:57:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: what.
3365 2011-03-09 19:58:04 AAA_awright has joined
3366 2011-03-09 19:58:11 <Diablo-D3> btw, I think I wrote somewhat of a gross hack
3367 2011-03-09 19:58:16 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3368 2011-03-09 19:58:18 <lfm> ArtForz: but then you can't do anything els in jsonserdeslang
3369 2011-03-09 19:58:20 <x6763> farzong: trades on mtgox are not in the block chain...they are in mtgox's accounting system...that's all...when you withdraw bitcoins from mtgox, it goes to the block chain, and deposits into mtgox are on the block chain...trades are not on the block chain
3370 2011-03-09 19:58:27 <Diablo-D3> Im using jaxrs, which is for @annotating REST apis
3371 2011-03-09 19:58:30 <ArtForz> lfm: yep ;)
3372 2011-03-09 19:58:51 <Diablo-D3> I just have one REST command that takes a map and checks if it contains the right shit
3373 2011-03-09 19:59:33 JackRabiit has joined
3374 2011-03-09 19:59:48 <JackRabiit> ArtForz!
3375 2011-03-09 19:59:49 <BlueMatt> tcatm: whats the chance of getting the -port option included in the next version?
3376 2011-03-09 19:59:50 <JackRabiit> hey man!
3377 2011-03-09 20:00:01 <lfm> the old "dwimnwis" instruction
3378 2011-03-09 20:00:15 <farzong> x6763: errmmm.. if you have a seller of btc, and a buyer of btc participating on the exchange, they have to record a transaction.. maybe i dont know how mtgox in particular works, but thats how a currency market operates
3379 2011-03-09 20:00:28 <JackRabiit> can i get links to the photos of your miner?, the open photo and the stack of 5 photo?
3380 2011-03-09 20:00:46 tower has joined
3381 2011-03-09 20:01:30 * Diablo-D3 goes back to coding this shit
3382 2011-03-09 20:01:32 <farzong> i mean, if i buy 100 btc on mtgox, its sent to my bitcoin address isn't it? if youre saying theres an extra "redeem btc" step why would that matter.. the order flow is still available to everyone
3383 2011-03-09 20:01:33 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it's a tough question; here's why...
3384 2011-03-09 20:01:36 <Diablo-D3> a miner only needs the getwork command, right?
3385 2011-03-09 20:01:56 <x6763> farzong: mtgox works by you either depositing bitcoins or some other currency into mtgox's wallet/bank account...then your trades are merely debits/credits in mtgox's accounting system...nothing touches the block chain except for bitcoin deposits to mtgox and bitcoin withdrawals from mtgox
3386 2011-03-09 20:01:59 <lfm> in general ya
3387 2011-03-09 20:02:35 <Diablo-D3> also, I think I can shave off source code in my miner
3388 2011-03-09 20:03:00 <Diablo-D3> I have like a 100 lines to do what I did in like 10
3389 2011-03-09 20:03:04 tower is now known as towerX
3390 2011-03-09 20:03:12 <lfm> heh
3391 2011-03-09 20:03:22 <farzong> right so i withdraw my purchase and someone else can match up the order values (of course there are other ways to tell, mtgox has a known address)
3392 2011-03-09 20:03:33 <x6763> farzong: depositing bitcoins to mtgox means you send bitcoins to a special address that mtgox gives you when you tell it you want to make a deposit...this address is unique per person and i think maybe per deposit as well
3393 2011-03-09 20:03:33 <farzong> in any case, the iwnning miner can choose to discriminate against adversaries when posting the block
3394 2011-03-09 20:03:53 <lfm> farzong: "withdraw my purchace"? huh?
3395 2011-03-09 20:04:27 <farzong> lfm: at some point gox transfers btc to me (the amount is going to resemble the amount in the order book)
3396 2011-03-09 20:04:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: satoshi was definitely against it, but it seems to be a clear community demand.  So, there's some natural tension there.  We're trying to avoid wildly diverging from satoshicode at the moment, while also trying to permit community contributions that diverge from satoshicode.  :)
3397 2011-03-09 20:04:49 <jgarzik> a grey area, no fine lines
3398 2011-03-09 20:05:02 <lfm> farzong: oh ok
3399 2011-03-09 20:05:04 <ArtForz> JackRabiit: sec
3400 2011-03-09 20:05:15 <JackRabiit> Thankyou!
3401 2011-03-09 20:05:18 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Personally, I think a -port option is long overdue, and a standard option in 99.9% of other TCP servers
3402 2011-03-09 20:05:41 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree that satoshi had a brilliant plan, but unless someone can come up with reason why he did this/why it is important/good, I see no reason why we should follow him like a god
3403 2011-03-09 20:05:56 <lfm> farzong: mygox uses a different address for every deposit. it does not use a "known address"
3404 2011-03-09 20:05:57 <ArtForz> http://bayimg.com/eABDfaAdd http://bayimg.com/KAAeaaAdp
3405 2011-03-09 20:05:58 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: btw, you're an idiot.
3406 2011-03-09 20:06:06 <farzong> there s a solution tho: insert all tx into a sorted tree, recompute the merkle tree (O(log n)).. only accept the largest tree.. in this case each node is forced to include all transactions, no single person can discrminiate (to achieve discrmination everyone would have to be a dick)
3407 2011-03-09 20:06:08 <Diablo-D3> most of the shit he did actually does have a good reason behind it
3408 2011-03-09 20:06:13 <Diablo-D3> _he just cant code_
3409 2011-03-09 20:06:15 <Diablo-D3> at all
3410 2011-03-09 20:06:16 <Diablo-D3> period
3411 2011-03-09 20:06:16 <knotwork> having each distinct "currency"/blockchain have its own port compiled in is one less thing to get wrong
3412 2011-03-09 20:06:31 <knotwork> when writing scripts that access all those different daemons
3413 2011-03-09 20:06:37 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: yes that is true, I am an idiot for the most part, but we dont have to follow him like a god
3414 2011-03-09 20:06:44 <knotwork> but that is a poor reason not to allow setting port on commandline
3415 2011-03-09 20:07:11 <ArtForz> farzong: stop solving issues you just made up
3416 2011-03-09 20:07:22 <knotwork> I could still compile in a different default port per currency even if there was a -port switch
3417 2011-03-09 20:07:54 <farzong> ArtForz: didn't you complain the other day that a powerful miner could keep your transaction out of the block if he so chose?
3418 2011-03-09 20:07:54 <BlueMatt> knotwork: only sort of, clients will accept your connections but severely punish you for their outgoing connections
3419 2011-03-09 20:08:07 JackRabiit has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3420 2011-03-09 20:08:11 <knotwork> besides eventually a -blockhain= or -currency= switch would be useful
3421 2011-03-09 20:08:13 jackmcbarn has joined
3422 2011-03-09 20:08:24 <BlueMatt> knotwork: the need for that is a ways off
3423 2011-03-09 20:08:28 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3424 2011-03-09 20:08:28 <knotwork> so as not to have to recompile separately for each application/currency/blockchain at all
3425 2011-03-09 20:08:29 <farzong> what is preventing miners from discrminating against certain transactions and choosing not to include them
3426 2011-03-09 20:08:29 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: we're not following him like a god
3427 2011-03-09 20:08:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think you misunderstand.  Let me draw an analogy:  in the Linux kernel, there is a certain developer who is a HUGE pain in the ass, and insists upon doing code His Way, even when the kernel community points out how His Way is wildly different from the codebase he is working on.  For other developers, we don't take their patches, and tell them what revisions are needed.  For this one developer, we grumble,
3428 2011-03-09 20:08:32 <jgarzik> rewrite his patches, and merge them.  Why?  Because buried in the ugly misshapen code is helpful kernel driver code that enables IDE on weird, wild and wooly platforms we would otherwise be unable to support.
3429 2011-03-09 20:08:33 <ArtForz> theres no way to tell which transactions belong to who, unless someone is *really* stupid
3430 2011-03-09 20:08:41 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: but until Im finished writing my client, we dont have a choice but to use his
3431 2011-03-09 20:08:43 <lfm> knotwork: use -datadir
3432 2011-03-09 20:09:07 <knotwork> nothing in the -datadir tells it the genesis block to use for that datadir
3433 2011-03-09 20:09:28 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: so it's not slavishly following satoshi.  satoshi _is_ still actively contributing, and we want to -gently- diverge from his stuff, not be abrupt and push him away completely.
3434 2011-03-09 20:09:33 <lfm> knotwork: predownload a seed block chain
3435 2011-03-09 20:09:38 <knotwork> though maybe genesis block isnt really important once you got a bunch more blocks in there?
3436 2011-03-09 20:09:38 <farzong> ArtForz: side-channels (like comparing the order book on an exchange, or a heuristic based on the network (IP range) that heard the tx first (as in I hate libya, so i can have a probabilistic guess based on where the tx bubbled up from)
3437 2011-03-09 20:09:42 x6763 has joined
3438 2011-03-09 20:09:52 <farzong> or just deciding to only accept tx's from entities you know and like
3439 2011-03-09 20:10:03 <x6763> farzong: i'm not sure that mtgox consolidates all of their deposits into a single address (seems silly to do something like that with the number of deposits they receive)...and without that, there is no known address for someone to discriminate against, and most likely your withdrawal transaction will be referencing different transaction outputs than the transaction you deposited with
3440 2011-03-09 20:10:15 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, good point.  I dont think a port option is so abrupt but I see where you are coming from, and I wasn't aware satoshi was still active?
3441 2011-03-09 20:10:17 <farzong> i.e. "verified" accounts.. it can devolve into a cartel deciding which tx to accept
3442 2011-03-09 20:10:40 <ArtForz> x6763: it doesn't
3443 2011-03-09 20:11:01 <farzong> yeah x6763 .. im not saying its a prob now.. but if we have trillions of orders, a tiny statistical edge in favoritism is a big advantage... HFT for example
3444 2011-03-09 20:11:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: satoshi specifically vetoed -port in the past, which makes it a bit different from your average change
3445 2011-03-09 20:11:18 <farzong> and sure, why wouldnt the order book match up for a good number of tx's?
3446 2011-03-09 20:11:24 <ArtForz> that tiny edge requires you to have > 50% of network hashrate
3447 2011-03-09 20:11:27 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: -port was one of the first patches I did, many months ago
3448 2011-03-09 20:11:27 <knotwork> lfm: once I have a chain started the genesis block is not important unless competing branch solution has to go that far back?
3449 2011-03-09 20:11:42 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: do you happen to know why?
3450 2011-03-09 20:11:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: It's on the forums somewhere
3451 2011-03-09 20:12:12 <knotwork> lfm: if people can sprecify any port then by a typo they might have their CDN daemon mistakenly talk to my NKL daemon
3452 2011-03-09 20:12:25 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: gavinandresen objected on the basis of potential Sybil attacks, but I think its not quite possible
3453 2011-03-09 20:12:33 <knotwork> or something like that. then ENTIRE chain would diverge and they would have to look back to genesis block wouldnt they?
3454 2011-03-09 20:12:37 <farzong> well anyone can slow down someone else once he wins a block. so if 10% of the miners are discrminating, now you have a fast lane and a slow lane
3455 2011-03-09 20:12:59 <knotwork> so I can see why not making it easy for someone to put one currrency on another currency's port could be useful
3456 2011-03-09 20:13:02 <farzong> but otoh.. if every tx contributes to the root hash, thers no discrimin
3457 2011-03-09 20:13:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: when was the last time you heard from satoshi?
3458 2011-03-09 20:13:38 <farzong> satoshi is on his private island enjoying bitcoin $
3459 2011-03-09 20:13:49 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3460 2011-03-09 20:14:07 <lfm> knotwork: well if you use something like the measures used to keep the tesnet separate from the main net you should be ok. I spoze it would require custom client forks tho
3461 2011-03-09 20:14:21 <lfm> tesnet -> testnet
3462 2011-03-09 20:14:36 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you never know, maybe I'll pull it.  did you pimp the change on the forums?
3463 2011-03-09 20:14:38 <knotwork> currently all my alternates are simply hacks of the -testnet section/ifblocks of code
3464 2011-03-09 20:15:06 <knotwork> so each of my custom clients/daemons can do either real bitcoin or their own alternate they were comoiled for
3465 2011-03-09 20:15:14 <knotwork> s/comoiled/compiled/
3466 2011-03-09 20:15:19 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no, from what Im seeing of satoshi's it seems he is against it because of people running multiple nodes on the network is just creating nodes for no reason, and I agree...however
3467 2011-03-09 20:15:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: tested on testnet?  did nodes successfully connect?
3468 2011-03-09 20:15:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Ive done some testing, however the existing penalty from other nodes does cause problems
3469 2011-03-09 20:16:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Ive gotten some people to compile with odd ports and incoming connections work, outgoing appears to be ok too
3470 2011-03-09 20:16:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: its actually gavin's patch, just a slight addition
3471 2011-03-09 20:17:08 <phantomcircuit> ok so now that i have the block chains working i just have to do txs
3472 2011-03-09 20:17:08 <knotwork> lfm: in theory my alternates even use different IRC too, though in practice I run them with -noirc
3473 2011-03-09 20:17:12 <phantomcircuit> >:)
3474 2011-03-09 20:17:12 <farzong> ArtForz is indeed a genius
3475 2011-03-09 20:17:24 <farzong> wait has anyone seen satoshi and artforz in the same chan at the same time
3476 2011-03-09 20:17:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: back to what satoshi was saying: the current client will only make one initial outbound connection per /16 which prevents people from just running a huge number of nodes on one ip, to an extent.  More work needs to be done here anyway, however, as it can seriously help prevent sybil attacks
3477 2011-03-09 20:17:37 <phantomcircuit> i've never seen satoshi at all
3478 2011-03-09 20:17:51 <luke-jr> me etiher
3479 2011-03-09 20:17:55 <ArtForz> I've never seen satoshi either
3480 2011-03-09 20:18:07 <jgarzik> ArtForz: that's just what satoshi would say
3481 2011-03-09 20:18:08 <lfm> that proves it then
3482 2011-03-09 20:18:15 * jgarzik thinks ArtForz is satoshi.
3483 2011-03-09 20:18:15 <ArtForz> life of brian...
3484 2011-03-09 20:18:24 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sybil?
3485 2011-03-09 20:18:38 <luke-jr> any if anyone can believe it, my fandom of tonal is being shaken :|
3486 2011-03-09 20:18:38 * BlueMatt thinks jgarzik is blaming ArtForz to keep people from realizing he is satoshi
3487 2011-03-09 20:18:42 <luke-jr> and*
3488 2011-03-09 20:19:23 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: where one person is able to become all of your connections and thus become a proxy between you and the network (never seen the word aside from gavinandresen's comments, so dont know where he got it)
3489 2011-03-09 20:19:45 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: obviously someone becomming a proxy between you and the network is a bad thing from a security standpoint
3490 2011-03-09 20:19:59 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, oh, you'd have to be a very large % of the network for that to reliably occur
3491 2011-03-09 20:20:14 <lfm> phantomcircuit: Sybil was a movie about a girl with multiple personalities. I guess here it means someone with multiple ip addresses
3492 2011-03-09 20:20:24 <jgarzik> you peoples' google-fu sucks
3493 2011-03-09 20:20:25 <jgarzik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack
3494 2011-03-09 20:20:27 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: true, but say I could make nodes on each port on my ip, plus if I have a couple ips I could do that easily
3495 2011-03-09 20:20:57 <agorist> will bitcoin have a partial escrow hardcoded into it?
3496 2011-03-09 20:21:02 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no, Im just lazy, googling sybil doesnt give anything, Im really losing hope in google's results recently
3497 2011-03-09 20:21:21 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, it gives you the movie :|
3498 2011-03-09 20:22:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, to have 50/50 odds of being 100% of any individual nodes outbound connections you'd have to control > 90% of the peers
3499 2011-03-09 20:23:09 <phantomcircuit> which i guess would be trivial if you used ports other than 8333
3500 2011-03-09 20:23:19 <phantomcircuit> but iirc bitcoind gives alt ports a low score
3501 2011-03-09 20:23:24 <phantomcircuit> also
3502 2011-03-09 20:23:28 <phantomcircuit> look at me and my maths
3503 2011-03-09 20:23:30 <lfm> agorist: there has been discusions of escrow but I dont think anything concrete yet
3504 2011-03-09 20:23:31 <farzong> so i guess what do clients do with orphaned transactions? lets say somehow a tx continues to be excluded block after block.. do nodes just discard the orphans eventually?
3505 2011-03-09 20:23:32 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: exactly, however my patch changed that
3506 2011-03-09 20:23:53 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I changed that because otherwise people on odd ports would *never* get incoming connections
3507 2011-03-09 20:23:59 <xelister> BlueMatt: google has 1 thing in common with ati. guess
3508 2011-03-09 20:24:18 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: however, the limit of 1 ip /16 should provide the same defense
3509 2011-03-09 20:24:33 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: so I feel confident that removing the 2h penalty has no effect so security
3510 2011-03-09 20:24:34 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yes, that's only for outbound connections though right?
3511 2011-03-09 20:24:41 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes, that is correct
3512 2011-03-09 20:24:47 <lfm> farzong: orphan txn prolly hang around in the mem backlog till the client is restarted or something
3513 2011-03-09 20:24:52 <BlueMatt> the client accepts pretty much any incomming connections
3514 2011-03-09 20:24:53 <phantomcircuit> hell just increasing the number of outbound connections to like 20 would make the attack practically impossible
3515 2011-03-09 20:24:59 <BlueMatt> which is a problem imho, which needs some fixing
3516 2011-03-09 20:24:59 <farzong> ahh i c lfm
3517 2011-03-09 20:25:24 <BlueMatt> xelister: ha, yea. Ive found myself just going to wikipedia and searching for stuff instead of bothering going to google
3518 2011-03-09 20:26:24 <lfm> as if google never indexed wikis
3519 2011-03-09 20:26:25 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes, I have been asking about that recently to.  I was thinking 25% of -maxconnections would be about right
3520 2011-03-09 20:26:40 <BlueMatt> lfm: yea, but I find wikipedia to return better results when Im looking for some info
3521 2011-03-09 20:27:11 <farzong> a tx flood could create orphans that are lost... it might make sense for clients to re-broadcast their tx if they dont see it accumulated into a block after X days or something
3522 2011-03-09 20:27:16 <lfm> BlueMatt: ya I do know what you mean sometimes when you are pretty sure wikipiedia will have someyhing
3523 2011-03-09 20:27:17 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I don't mind -port, but would rather fix stuff like that (network diversity on incoming connections) before removing penalties
3524 2011-03-09 20:27:32 <ArtForz> farzong: fucking stop solving solved problems
3525 2011-03-09 20:27:36 <Avemo> ;;bc,estimate
3526 2011-03-09 20:27:37 <gribble> 66727.28594733
3527 2011-03-09 20:27:40 <Diablo-D3> yeah what farzong said
3528 2011-03-09 20:27:42 <Diablo-D3> er
3529 2011-03-09 20:27:45 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: 25 connections is pretty nice (it gives you a .07% chance of falling into a sybil attack if the attacker has 75% of the network)
3530 2011-03-09 20:27:45 <Diablo-D3> yeah what ArtForz said
3531 2011-03-09 20:27:51 * Diablo-D3 smokes more drugs. srsly.
3532 2011-03-09 20:27:51 <farzong> ArtForz: how is it handled?
3533 2011-03-09 20:28:01 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: the 2h penalty on alternate ports is only on outgoing connections right now anyway
3534 2011-03-09 20:28:06 <Diablo-D3> if the attacker controls 75% of the network, we're already fucked.
3535 2011-03-09 20:28:29 <Diablo-D3> and by "controls", its implied thats of the core section of the network
3536 2011-03-09 20:28:31 <farzong> i see hand-waving about how all problems are solved, but few details :)
3537 2011-03-09 20:28:32 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: so removing that penalty does nothing for security.  I agree that incoming connections should be fixed though
3538 2011-03-09 20:28:32 <Diablo-D3> outliers dont do much
3539 2011-03-09 20:28:45 <Diablo-D3> farzong: because we've answered your questions for like a week
3540 2011-03-09 20:28:54 <Diablo-D3> everything you want to know, we've told you
3541 2011-03-09 20:28:58 <lfm> farzong: sigh, if the creating client doesnt get their txn in a block, after a while it will re xmit it
3542 2011-03-09 20:29:26 <farzong> lfm: makese sense, and what happens if its never accepted? (because miners are discriminating)
3543 2011-03-09 20:29:40 <lfm> farzong: then it is never accepted
3544 2011-03-09 20:29:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: just in general it seems wrong to relax penalties while there are still gaping holes in other areas :)
3545 2011-03-09 20:30:08 <farzong> yeah thats an issue.. because the population of miners is a small cadre of elite megahashers
3546 2011-03-09 20:30:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: True.  But in this case it doesnt actually effect security
3547 2011-03-09 20:30:12 <farzong> central control again
3548 2011-03-09 20:30:30 <lfm> farzong: no, its not an issue cuz most miners are indescriminate
3549 2011-03-09 20:30:40 <farzong> wishful thinking
3550 2011-03-09 20:30:47 <lfm> experience
3551 2011-03-09 20:30:53 <luke-jr> agorist: it's not possible
3552 2011-03-09 20:30:58 <BlueMatt> luke-jr only accepts txes with fees
3553 2011-03-09 20:31:03 <farzong> we hope theyll play nice, but what happens when artforz/x/y/z miners decide to create a rbl or whitelist even?
3554 2011-03-09 20:31:07 <knotwork> farzong back to that again? be concrete, lets get your own alternate up and running
3555 2011-03-09 20:31:13 <x6763> farzong: cartel's don't last long in a free market...eventually someone wants to make more money and breaks away from the cartel and outcompetes them
3556 2011-03-09 20:31:41 <knotwork> farzong to heck with these elitists lets do farcoin or whatever you wanna call it
3557 2011-03-09 20:31:42 <mmagic> farzong: many of your questions are answered in the source. are you able to read/build patches?
3558 2011-03-09 20:31:52 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well there are 4k nodes currently, each ip can have (2^16-2) ports, so a single ip could be about 94% of the network
3559 2011-03-09 20:31:57 <farzong> yes mmagic ill check it out
3560 2011-03-09 20:31:58 <luke-jr> will I get lynched if I create Dozenal BitCoin?
3561 2011-03-09 20:31:59 <phantomcircuit> which is uh
3562 2011-03-09 20:32:00 <phantomcircuit> bad
3563 2011-03-09 20:32:05 <farzong> knotwork: facecoin hehe
3564 2011-03-09 20:32:14 <farzong> i like bitcoin as it is, ive invested in the currency
3565 2011-03-09 20:32:21 <farzong> i dont want to see it controlled by a cartel tho
3566 2011-03-09 20:32:24 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, write an irc bot to automagically convert TBC to BTC and you shall be forgiven
3567 2011-03-09 20:32:32 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: but currently a node will only create outbound connections to 1 ip /16, so it will never connect to two nodes behind the same ip, unless it is incoming
3568 2011-03-09 20:32:36 <mmagic> farzong: since you haven't checked it out yet, you should consider easing up on the q's-and-suggestions thing. you're wasting a lot of your brainpower that could be better put towards a fork.
3569 2011-03-09 20:32:49 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: really?
3570 2011-03-09 20:32:55 <ArtForz> luke-jr: why not create trinary bitcoin? call it tritcoin ;)
3571 2011-03-09 20:32:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, true, although you could use tor to fuck with people
3572 2011-03-09 20:32:58 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: notice I didn't mention Tonal or Decimal there
3573 2011-03-09 20:33:01 <phantomcircuit> i think
3574 2011-03-09 20:33:04 <luke-jr> ArtForz: Trinary isn't very useful
3575 2011-03-09 20:33:06 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: you could do that anyway
3576 2011-03-09 20:33:09 <ArtForz> sure is
3577 2011-03-09 20:33:14 <farzong> who wants free facecoins or bozobucks
3578 2011-03-09 20:33:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree that there is a problem with incoming connections, but frankly just increasing the outbound connections a bit is pretty damn secure
3579 2011-03-09 20:33:25 <lfm> farzong: then be vigalent. if something like that actually happens there would be plenty of people interested. As a "what if" speculation it is not so interesting
3580 2011-03-09 20:33:28 <ArtForz> especially balanced trinary
3581 2011-03-09 20:33:28 <farzong> mmagic: in reality im just procrastinating, hoping btc will hit $1,000 tomorrow so i can take a vacation
3582 2011-03-09 20:33:31 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, either way getting lots of ips is a trivial problem
3583 2011-03-09 20:33:41 <knotwork> farzong free? I'm not sure you quite understand the concept of currency ;)
3584 2011-03-09 20:33:46 <mmagic> ArtForz: and then for people with a speech impediment, it would be "twitcoin"
3585 2011-03-09 20:33:46 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: LOL no
3586 2011-03-09 20:33:47 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: true, but punishing based on ports does nothing for that
3587 2011-03-09 20:33:49 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, a better solution would be for the client to periodically connect to new random nodes
3588 2011-03-09 20:33:56 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: there aren't any IPs left. :P
3589 2011-03-09 20:34:00 <ArtForz> mmagic: lol
3590 2011-03-09 20:34:05 <farzong> knotwork: free distribution of coins is one way to avoid a cartel
3591 2011-03-09 20:34:08 <mmagic> =]
3592 2011-03-09 20:34:13 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, trivial for the people we're trying to prevent from attacking ;)
3593 2011-03-09 20:34:13 <farzong> ie a free phase
3594 2011-03-09 20:34:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, and actually i could buy space on a botnet pretty cheap if it's just for proxying small amounts of data
3595 2011-03-09 20:34:53 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: that wouldnt really help in the case of a sybil attack, because if I hold 99% of the network, your new connections would be to me anyway
3596 2011-03-09 20:35:08 <lfm> farzong: I doubt it would prevent a cartel from forming if they had the power and desire
3597 2011-03-09 20:35:11 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: the current client keeps MAX_OUTBOUND_CONENCTIONS outbout connections open at all times
3598 2011-03-09 20:35:30 <mmagic> and besides, in the end it's the ones with the CPU power who decide what makes it into the blockchain, not the total number of nodes themselves.
3599 2011-03-09 20:35:35 <knotwork> farzong ok, who wants to *buy* CDN, CZB, MBC, NKL, UKB or UNS *using* their free facecoin or bozobucks, and at how much?
3600 2011-03-09 20:35:46 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yeah but they're made when the client starts and never switch to new peers voluntarily
3601 2011-03-09 20:35:47 <farzong> i think some ppl are dogmatic about the distribution of newly minted coin (it should go to the banks, because they are efficient at allocating capital (not true), it should go to sovereigns (nah), it should go to whoever has the most nvidia cards! (why is that a good idea)?
3602 2011-03-09 20:36:07 <luke-jr> farzong: s/nvidia/ati
3603 2011-03-09 20:36:15 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: but if I start disconnecting those to connect to others, it doesnt really help?
3604 2011-03-09 20:36:21 <knotwork> farzong oh or GMC or GRF too, also offered, how much facecoin or bozobuck you got?
3605 2011-03-09 20:36:30 <mmagic> farzong: jibber jabber. fork already and implement your alternative ideas. nothing speaks louder than code.
3606 2011-03-09 20:36:30 <luke-jr> farzong: it's a good idea, because it encourages people to grow their mining power
3607 2011-03-09 20:36:41 <luke-jr> farzong: more mining power = harder to overcome the network
3608 2011-03-09 20:36:45 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, if you have .99% of the network peers would only have to make 480 connections to avoid you, so if you cycle the timescale for which you can keep peers isolated from the network drops significantly
3609 2011-03-09 20:36:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: As I said earlier, I think 25% of -maxconnections would be great for MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS (maybe with a hard minimum).  I think that would, by itself, pretty much prevent sybil-style attacks
3610 2011-03-09 20:36:56 <lfm> farzong: ya, facebook gave me 10 free facebook bucks and I dont see it accumulating huge value
3611 2011-03-09 20:37:01 <mmarker> Ok. ok. As mush as I love jgarzik's cpuminer. And I own a Sparc Ultra I borrowed from my university...I am NOT writing a SPARC32 port for that guy on the forums.
3612 2011-03-09 20:37:12 NickelBot has joined
3613 2011-03-09 20:37:16 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: how are you suggesting I chose which old connections to close to make a new one?
3614 2011-03-09 20:37:27 <knotwork> $0.02 farzong
3615 2011-03-09 20:37:29 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, by age
3616 2011-03-09 20:37:29 <NickelBot> Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!
3617 2011-03-09 20:37:31 <farzong> just saying, a currency that is majority-owned by < 1% of the participants is ... the same as the Fed (small cartel of banks that control availability of liquidity)
3618 2011-03-09 20:37:33 <knotwork> $0.02
3619 2011-03-09 20:37:36 <NickelBot> twocents <nick> : send 0.4 NKL to <nick>'s NKL account (creating account if necessary).
3620 2011-03-09 20:37:44 <knotwork> code. speaking.
3621 2011-03-09 20:37:48 <x6763> farzong: regarding cartels: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2659.0
3622 2011-03-09 20:37:51 <mmagic> farzong: no it's not.
3623 2011-03-09 20:37:56 sprash has joined
3624 2011-03-09 20:37:56 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: so I disconnect from the only other real node Im connected to and end up getting connected only to you?
3625 2011-03-09 20:38:01 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, also 25% of max connections isn't enough
3626 2011-03-09 20:38:22 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, how do you know that it's a real node?
3627 2011-03-09 20:38:25 <farzong> mmagic: fed doesn't have to print money to cause inflation.. they just open the sluice gates and move x% of the trillions in reserve into bank deposites
3628 2011-03-09 20:38:28 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I disagree, I think having more than 75% of network is too hard for almost any attack
3629 2011-03-09 20:38:48 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, depends on whom the attacker is
3630 2011-03-09 20:38:59 <phantomcircuit> otoh if the attacker is the nsa they can just mitm you
3631 2011-03-09 20:39:13 <agorist> farzong, you are referring to price inflation, not inflation
3632 2011-03-09 20:39:13 <mmagic> farzong: this is the part where you turn that from a non-sequiteur into a logical progression.
3633 2011-03-09 20:39:14 <knotwork> (now just gotta put my nickels where my speaking code is... ;))
3634 2011-03-09 20:39:21 <farzong> im not surprised that the largest holders of btc, who effectively control its value claim that all problems are non-problems which have been solved in any case
3635 2011-03-09 20:39:21 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: You dont, thats the point.  Say Im connected to 99 of your "nodes" and then 1 node which isnt yours.  I then disconnect the 1 (it is the oldest), and connect to another one which happens to be yours?
3636 2011-03-09 20:39:25 <lfm> farzong: yes, artforz and slush do have some slight power over bitcoin, but it seems you have a distorted view of the actual level
3637 2011-03-09 20:39:39 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, however if we're talking big scale organized crime, getting 75% of the networks ips wouldn't be *that* hard
3638 2011-03-09 20:39:50 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I think we should focus on reasonable attackers, not nsa or huge resourced attackers
3639 2011-03-09 20:40:08 <farzong> lfm: i happen to think the interests of the de-facto cartel are aligned with other btc users for the time being.. but thats not guaranteed to be the case
3640 2011-03-09 20:40:11 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the most likely future attackers is organized cyber crime
3641 2011-03-09 20:40:12 <farzong> so im not too worried at all
3642 2011-03-09 20:40:21 <mmagic> farzong: write code that proves them wrong, or prove it with a real proof. both ways it's just people jabbering on irc. (the pro- and the anti-)
3643 2011-03-09 20:40:27 <xelister> BlueMatt: nsa/fbi/etc like to fuck with people
3644 2011-03-09 20:40:33 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, either way you dont have to always be connected to a valid node, just within x minutes be connected to one
3645 2011-03-09 20:40:38 <farzong> if it ever becomes a problem (unlikely), then theres always free bozobucks to be had
3646 2011-03-09 20:40:42 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: play with the percentage and recommend a value: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=.75^x=.001
3647 2011-03-09 20:40:54 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, so cycling the outbound nodes would increase the odds youd find at least 1 valid node
3648 2011-03-09 20:41:16 <lfm> farzong: life isnt gauganteed but I dont spend every minute of the day worrying about airplanes crashing into my house
3649 2011-03-09 20:41:21 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: that is true, but I think that would cause too much network turmoil as connections are constantly being cut/made
3650 2011-03-09 20:41:25 <farzong> mmagic: i think btc is the best thing available, im not looking for a replacement. im looking att he ability to scale when the interests of the miners might diverge from the userbase
3651 2011-03-09 20:41:35 <knotwork> farzong can has bozobuck, plz
3652 2011-03-09 20:41:37 <sprash> I have a newbee Question: When, in the future, Blocks might not genereate any new BTC's, why do we need to continue to gereate Blocks?
3653 2011-03-09 20:41:48 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, it wouldn't have to be that fast, as you really only have to get a valid node once every 10 minutes
3654 2011-03-09 20:41:57 <mmagic> farzong: then forward-think, solve the problem, write code, and be the one who comes out on top when your sky falls in.
3655 2011-03-09 20:41:59 * farzong sends 1 zintillion  BB to kon
3656 2011-03-09 20:42:00 <Kiba> sprash: to add new transactions
3657 2011-03-09 20:42:03 <mmarker> sprash: That's how transactions get validated
3658 2011-03-09 20:42:03 <farzong> knotwork: rather
3659 2011-03-09 20:42:12 <Kiba> a block is a record of transactions
3660 2011-03-09 20:42:16 <mmarker> sprash: and to make an incentive out of it, you have fees.
3661 2011-03-09 20:42:36 <agorist> mmaker: the fees go to who
3662 2011-03-09 20:42:39 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: again, I think that would cause unnecessary traffic as the network grows...However it is a good point, maybe make forum thread?
3663 2011-03-09 20:42:43 <knotwork> hmm hope wikipedia knows what a zintillion is...
3664 2011-03-09 20:42:45 <lfm> sprash: the plan is that then transaction fees will pay for people to continue making blocks
3665 2011-03-09 20:42:54 <farzong> mmagic: i think its all addressable within the btc system.. but the thing is, a scheme which decreasers the powers of megaminers wouldn't be received well
3666 2011-03-09 20:42:59 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: In any case I think all of this sybil stuff needs a forum thread to discuss the exact stuff and solutions
3667 2011-03-09 20:43:05 <slush> I'm starting cartel mode in 10 minutes, right?
3668 2011-03-09 20:43:08 <slush> Damn IRC !!! it was PM to ArtForz!!
3669 2011-03-09 20:43:13 <farzong> lol
3670 2011-03-09 20:43:16 <mmarker> slush: There is no cabal.
3671 2011-03-09 20:43:18 <knotwork> wait, a zintllion is under 21 million, right? or are there more than 21 million bozos?
3672 2011-03-09 20:43:20 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you'd have to make about 700 connections/10 minutes if the attacker control 99% of the network and you're only ok with them being able to isolate 0.1% of the network
3673 2011-03-09 20:43:38 <farzong> knotwork: bozobucks in circulation vary according to demand factors
3674 2011-03-09 20:43:43 <mmagic> farzong: speculation and despair. if there is no point, then why complain? ;)
3675 2011-03-09 20:43:49 <mmarker> .msg slush Quick! move the alien hardware to the volcano lair!
3676 2011-03-09 20:43:58 <farzong> mmagic: im avoiding looking for a job (unemployed atm)
3677 2011-03-09 20:44:12 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, and that's assuming that you confirm transactions after 1 block includes if
3678 2011-03-09 20:44:15 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I chose .1% only because I think that is reasonable for sane attackers.  I feel like we wont have issues with attackers with unlimited resources...but I could be wrong
3679 2011-03-09 20:44:15 <sprash> So if everybody would stop generating blocks tomorrow, there would be no transactions possible anymore?
3680 2011-03-09 20:44:16 <lfm> bozos make their own bozobucks, as many as they want
3681 2011-03-09 20:44:22 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, if you're at 6 than it's 700 connections/hour
3682 2011-03-09 20:44:26 <phantomcircuit> which is totally reasonable
3683 2011-03-09 20:44:49 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: No one should accept large txes after 1 block
3684 2011-03-09 20:45:21 <lfm> BlueMatt: huh?
3685 2011-03-09 20:45:22 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: ok, maybe you are right here.  Would you mind opening a forum thread so we can discuss all this sybil stuff more publicly and put forward suggestions
3686 2011-03-09 20:45:42 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, so the default of 6 confirms means you'd have to cycle a connection every 6 seconds
3687 2011-03-09 20:45:45 <farzong> ArtForz is totally right.. the problems i brought up are addressed already.. except for: tx discrmination by miners, contrl of currency reserves by a small number of miners, and certain types of DoS
3688 2011-03-09 20:45:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sure
3689 2011-03-09 20:46:02 <lfm> BlueMatt: there are several forms of "large txns" that are normal and good
3690 2011-03-09 20:46:09 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I think we need to sit down and have a long talk about sybil attacks and prevention.  It is an important unknown in the network
3691 2011-03-09 20:46:16 <BlueMatt> lfm: Im talking about large money transfers
3692 2011-03-09 20:46:26 <BlueMatt> lfm: ie I dont want to accept 1 million btc after 1 block
3693 2011-03-09 20:46:40 <lfm> whats wrong with that?
3694 2011-03-09 20:46:49 <BlueMatt> lfm: potential double-spend attack
3695 2011-03-09 20:46:52 <phantomcircuit> also what silly person didnt give the forums it's own subdomain?
3696 2011-03-09 20:46:56 <x6763> farzong: except for maybe DoS, the problems you bring up are pretty much non-problems (this coming from someone that doesn't mine, has fewer than 100btc, and has written a lot of bitcoin related code)
3697 2011-03-09 20:46:56 <lfm> oh i see
3698 2011-03-09 20:47:20 <lfm> BlueMatt: I thot you wanted to reject them completely
3699 2011-03-09 20:47:55 <farzong> x6763: lets say the big miners decide to block transactions that appear to originate from south america (they do this by monitoring the IPs that announce the transactions - its not exact, but enough to make a dent)
3700 2011-03-09 20:48:06 <BlueMatt> lfm: reject what? Im talking about someone with large resources creating "bad" blocks and double spend money tricking you and taking the money back after it has been "spent"
3701 2011-03-09 20:48:38 <x6763> farzong: ok, we can talk about all kinds of illogical, unprofitable things miners *could* do, or we can focus on reality
3702 2011-03-09 20:48:41 <farzong> then lets say the cartel decides a little inflation is good, so they release a lot of coin into the market. (now everyones coins are worth less)
3703 2011-03-09 20:48:57 <farzong> the cartel operates as a de-facto fed
3704 2011-03-09 20:49:19 <lfm> BlueMatt: yes, I misunderstood
3705 2011-03-09 20:49:25 <ArtForz> *plonk*
3706 2011-03-09 20:49:33 <BlueMatt> lfm: its all good
3707 2011-03-09 20:49:36 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3708 2011-03-09 20:49:51 <farzong> x6763: once btc is popular, there would be pressure to filter out suspicious transactions. why wouldnt theminers accept a bribe to filter out "unfavorable" tx?
3709 2011-03-09 20:50:02 <knotwork> ha do irc-ers even know of plonk?
3710 2011-03-09 20:50:04 <lfm> farzong: hey! what happens if the REAL fed starts bitcoin mining?
3711 2011-03-09 20:50:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: should we have a -logtimestamp option, or just use fDebug?
3712 2011-03-09 20:50:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Ive got a pull req almost ready...
3713 2011-03-09 20:50:41 <lfm> farzong: gasp! we're all doomed
3714 2011-03-09 20:50:46 <farzong> but  think the more plausible scenario is different exchanges battling each other and trying to delay or block the tx each other yields
3715 2011-03-09 20:51:17 <farzong> farzong: question of future value are important when deciding how much to risk in btc in the present
3716 2011-03-09 20:51:28 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that's a good question
3717 2011-03-09 20:51:31 <ArtForz> knotwork: not in general
3718 2011-03-09 20:51:35 <knotwork> :)
3719 2011-03-09 20:51:51 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: tough call.  I lean towards -logtimestamp, but -debug already functions as a switch to enable logging of timing information...
3720 2011-03-09 20:51:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im being lazy, what exactly does -debug even do?
3721 2011-03-09 20:52:20 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: -debug is mostly unused in the code.  in a few key places, it spews timestamps on every network packet, for example.
3722 2011-03-09 20:52:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think -logtimestamps is more appropriate
3723 2011-03-09 20:52:36 <farzong> once btc hits the $1,000 mark, what prevents the cartel from cashing out a big chunk of their holdings? they time it so the market collapses, and everyone else is left with worthless bits
3724 2011-03-09 20:52:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: so it already enables timestamps?
3725 2011-03-09 20:52:48 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ...on certain events
3726 2011-03-09 20:53:00 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok ill do -logtimestamps...
3727 2011-03-09 20:53:04 <mmagic> farzong: you are incorrect still.
3728 2011-03-09 20:53:04 <agorist> farzong: so what if a cartel decides to release coins in the market? that just means that before it did we had lower prices which benefited everyone, and also when they do release the coins, they are reducing their cartel
3729 2011-03-09 20:53:10 <knotwork> farzong: crash it at only $1000? kind of shortsighted, yes?
3730 2011-03-09 20:53:13 <lfm> farzong: you tellin me if the price stalls for a while at $100 you wont sell all your BTC?
3731 2011-03-09 20:53:47 <farzong> agorist: they could release a small percentage of their holdings and overwhelm everyone else. prices go up because each btc is now worth less
3732 2011-03-09 20:54:00 <farzong> knotwork: yeah good point,$10,000 then. like berkshire hathaway
3733 2011-03-09 20:54:08 <agorist> farzong, and how would that benefit them
3734 2011-03-09 20:54:17 <mmagic> farzong: there is absolutely nothing at all stopping a majority of CPU power from taking over the network. that's a known attack vector. well-known.
3735 2011-03-09 20:54:29 <farzong> agorist: they cash-out the market, make $USD or whatever and buy lhamorghinis
3736 2011-03-09 20:54:38 <knotwork> farzong, buy all the NKL, become the NKL fed like you indicate. then you can strike back
3737 2011-03-09 20:54:49 <lfm> farzong: yes, so?
3738 2011-03-09 20:54:59 <farzong> lfm: i cant predict when the cartel will want to cash out and leave all other chumps in the dust
3739 2011-03-09 20:55:04 <farzong> pump-and-dump happens all the time on wall st
3740 2011-03-09 20:55:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: is there a reason why half of the -options aren't in help? Im assuming I should add -logtimestamps to the help
3741 2011-03-09 20:55:14 <lfm> farzong: thats right you cant
3742 2011-03-09 20:55:35 <mmagic> farzong: you're making me think you're just in here trolling.
3743 2011-03-09 20:55:39 <farzong> lfm: otoh i cant predict a mass panic or run on bicoin either (mass hysteria as opposed to a centrally-controlled scheme)
3744 2011-03-09 20:56:06 <knotwork> farzong diversify your holdings. buy GMC and GRF and UNS as well as NKL and BTC
3745 2011-03-09 20:56:15 emanon has joined
3746 2011-03-09 20:56:17 <lfm> farzong: did someone promise you otherwise? you should not have beleived it
3747 2011-03-09 20:56:18 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: satoshi preference, originally.  I think he didn't want to document the dev-only options in -help, to avoid overly intimidating users.
3748 2011-03-09 20:56:22 <farzong> but there would have to be some external political event to cause a panic.. whereas goldman style pump and dumps are much more frequent/sinister
3749 2011-03-09 20:56:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: so should I include -logtimestamps in it?
3750 2011-03-09 20:56:45 <farzong> lfm: due to the construction of btc we are guaranteed a cartel tho (the evolutionary process that created the current market)
3751 2011-03-09 20:56:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: No.  I would just add the option support for that.  We can document it in the wiki, which is more exhaustive anyway.
3752 2011-03-09 20:56:50 <agorist> farzong, hum, cartel induced inflation produces higher prices in BTC, meaning you will get LESS $USD
3753 2011-03-09 20:57:25 <agorist> BTC would lose value to other currencies
3754 2011-03-09 20:57:28 <farzong> agorist: they cash out at the peak and ride it down
3755 2011-03-09 20:57:35 <lfm> farzong: well if it is garanteed then your path is clear, sell your bitcoins now before the cartel takes over
3756 2011-03-09 20:57:36 emanon is now known as eao
3757 2011-03-09 20:57:51 <agorist> buy cashing out they reduce their wallets reducing the inflation they can cause
3758 2011-03-09 20:57:57 <farzong> lfm: well i still think the cartel has no interest in dumping it now.. so im not worried :)
3759 2011-03-09 20:58:08 <knotwork> yeah you soind not worried
3760 2011-03-09 20:58:13 <knotwork> s/soind/sound/
3761 2011-03-09 20:58:17 <farzong> heh. im printing bozobucks as fast as possible
3762 2011-03-09 20:58:25 <lfm> farzong: but you said it was gauranteed? you want to wait till its too late?
3763 2011-03-09 20:58:41 <mmagic> huh. usually i can spot them sooner.
3764 2011-03-09 20:58:42 <knotwork> you're worse than the miners, at least they only mint *so much* bitcoin
3765 2011-03-09 20:58:43 <farzong> lfm: time my exit? yes
3766 2011-03-09 20:59:05 <agorist> farzong, what percentage of current btcs in circulation are controlled by cartels do you think
3767 2011-03-09 20:59:10 <farzong> knotwork: bozobucks are also finite (tho there are other good schemes that expand due to demand rather than fiat)
3768 2011-03-09 20:59:33 <farzong> agorist: i think the forum activity is a good proxy for determining that. it seems like there are 10-15 major players
3769 2011-03-09 20:59:36 <knotwork> farzong you know timing? great, buy enough General Retirement Fund (GRF) shares to get on the board!
3770 2011-03-09 20:59:42 <knotwork> GRF needs your expertise
3771 2011-03-09 20:59:54 <x6763> farzong: purchasing power in bitcoins expands with demand as well
3772 2011-03-09 20:59:56 <lfm> farzong: well good luck with that
3773 2011-03-09 21:01:05 <farzong> lfm: let me ask you this. say another bitcoin clone pops up with 21 million units, but the coins are unallocated. why would bitcoin I (which is controlled by a cabal) a better investment than the clone?
3774 2011-03-09 21:01:19 <knotwork> (actually it should be Galactic Retirement Fund but conservatives on the board insisted we go with "General" instead)
3775 2011-03-09 21:01:29 <farzong> knotwork: yes like general gaus chicken
3776 2011-03-09 21:01:35 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4335.0
3777 2011-03-09 21:01:48 <knotwork> general motors. general mining corp. etc
3778 2011-03-09 21:01:54 <agorist> farzong, so you're saying 10-15 players own most of the 5+mil bitcoins ?
3779 2011-03-09 21:02:24 <farzong> agorist: id say they hold a majority. but what do i know. do you think there are many miners and hashfarms that dont have a presence on the forums? i doubt it...
3780 2011-03-09 21:02:26 <lfm> wow, general motors is really galactic motors?
3781 2011-03-09 21:02:36 <knotwork> farzong: bitcoin is not a better investment, buy NKL now, much better
3782 2011-03-09 21:02:58 <farzong> nkl?
3783 2011-03-09 21:03:09 <knotwork> try /help nickelbot
3784 2011-03-09 21:03:18 <knotwork> oops I mean /msg help nickelbot
3785 2011-03-09 21:03:53 <farzong> anyway there are schemes which prevent miner discrimination
3786 2011-03-09 21:04:05 <farzong> and minting policies that prevent consolidation (as an initial condition)
3787 2011-03-09 21:04:44 <lfm> farzong: re: an other btc currency? it would depend on a lot of details, it may or may not be better
3788 2011-03-09 21:04:48 <farzong> i love bitcoin.. im not looking for a replacement.. but im predicting some tweaks will be made later on down the road to promote wider adoption
3789 2011-03-09 21:04:48 <knotwork> lfm no, examples of use of general in corp name include general motors and General Mining Corp (GMC, ask nickelbot)
3790 2011-03-09 21:05:08 <farzong> lfm: right, what would suggest one is beter than other.. certainly who controls it is a factor
3791 2011-03-09 21:05:37 <lfm> farzong: and if no one controls? is that "better"?
3792 2011-03-09 21:06:18 <knotwork> farzong go with UNS then, (Galactic) United Nations shares. controlled by Galactic United Nations
3793 2011-03-09 21:06:33 <farzong> lfm: mitigates certain risks id say (doesnt prevent mass panic, but prevents engineered inflation)
3794 2011-03-09 21:06:41 <knotwork> (we'd call it GUN but some people think GUNrunning has a bad name)
3795 2011-03-09 21:06:54 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
3796 2011-03-09 21:06:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112924 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1987 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68032.65895770
3797 2011-03-09 21:07:06 <JFK911> heh
3798 2011-03-09 21:07:12 <farzong> knotwork: interstellar transit perfected? awesome
3799 2011-03-09 21:07:17 <JFK911> someones manipulating this!
3800 2011-03-09 21:07:36 <knotwork> absolutely. only nations that have subsapce communicator tech issue these galactic bitcurrencies
3801 2011-03-09 21:07:45 <knotwork> s/subsapce/subspace/
3802 2011-03-09 21:07:49 <lfm> farzong: if you controlled it I would be very careful about getting involved
3803 2011-03-09 21:08:08 <x6763> farzong: how does it prevent "engineered inflation"? people can still buy up huge amounts of bitcoins (just like they do now by mining) and dump them into the market later
3804 2011-03-09 21:08:16 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: thanks Ill read it a bit later
3805 2011-03-09 21:08:20 <farzong> i think space civilizations will trade energy rather than information (because information cannot be converted to energy, but the other way around is true)
3806 2011-03-09 21:09:05 <x6763> farzong: are you going to prevent people from accumulating bitcoins in ways other than mining?
3807 2011-03-09 21:09:14 <farzong> x6763: much harder to buy up the market than it is to create the market and set-aside a reserve for yourself (the initial phase of easy miniing consolidated control in a few hands)
3808 2011-03-09 21:09:25 <x6763> farzong: it costs resources either way!
3809 2011-03-09 21:09:32 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
3810 2011-03-09 21:09:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112925 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1986 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 7 hours, 41 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68372.73560876
3811 2011-03-09 21:09:42 <knotwork> farzong sure but the TLM (Ton Light Month) is to variant a commodity, you buy and use them locally based on local
3812 2011-03-09 21:09:47 <knotwork> ship tech fuel prices etc
3813 2011-03-09 21:09:53 <farzong> early mining didn't cost anything, and only a few were interested in it.. so they have all the btc
3814 2011-03-09 21:10:32 <farzong> knotwork: makes sense
3815 2011-03-09 21:10:32 <jgarzik> btc would be worthless unless there were non-miners to want (present tense) it
3816 2011-03-09 21:10:37 <agorist> farzong, "engineered inflation" could be prevented by competing exchange markets
3817 2011-03-09 21:10:38 <knotwork> in theory information could move at no energy cost, or more correctly, reclaiming all energy put in
3818 2011-03-09 21:11:02 <knotwork> whereas shipping TonLightMonths around is more technically challenging at current galactic tech
3819 2011-03-09 21:11:05 <farzong> i notice none of th emajor miners are denying that such a cartel exists
3820 2011-03-09 21:11:47 <farzong> does opec make oil cheaper or more expensive?
3821 2011-03-09 21:11:55 <knotwork> farzong well I even deny being a major miner so why deny it exists
3822 2011-03-09 21:11:55 <lfm> what woud be the point of denial? you wouldnt beleive it
3823 2011-03-09 21:12:23 <farzong> lfm: denial is implausible..
3824 2011-03-09 21:12:27 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3825 2011-03-09 21:12:30 <knotwork> actually plausible deniability is one of my primary assets
3826 2011-03-09 21:12:48 <farzong> the denial is whether or not its a problem. on one hand the mega-holders say "trust us / its not a problem / weve solved it!"
3827 2011-03-09 21:12:58 <lfm> there ya go, you ansred that question
3828 2011-03-09 21:13:08 <knotwork> farzong, put bozobot online already
3829 2011-03-09 21:13:49 <lfm> farzong: no one has ever denied that control of 50% of the mining is a problem
3830 2011-03-09 21:14:13 <knotwork> if we can raise enough funds to buy NKL we can take nickelbot varous places to spread the word by giving away NKLs
3831 2011-03-09 21:14:43 <knotwork> (much cheaper than giving away potentially very very valuable bitcoin but an excuse to talk about bitcoin)
3832 2011-03-09 21:15:36 <farzong> the decision buy btc depends, in large part, on how well you trust the interests of the cartel to align with yours.. you are at their mercy
3833 2011-03-09 21:15:36 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
3834 2011-03-09 21:15:37 <gribble> 68372.73560876
3835 2011-03-09 21:16:03 <farzong> cartels tend not to be aligned well with everyone else, so thats an issue
3836 2011-03-09 21:16:05 <knotwork> (also transaction fee of 0.01 NKL is lower percent of what one gives away if giving e.g. 0.4 )
3837 2011-03-09 21:16:09 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3838 2011-03-09 21:16:21 <farzong> vaginadollars
3839 2011-03-09 21:16:21 Omnifarious is now known as Omni|AFK
3840 2011-03-09 21:18:04 * lfm also understand when you are trying to buy a comodity it is in your interest to try to drive the price down
3841 2011-03-09 21:18:33 molecular has joined
3842 2011-03-09 21:20:18 <knotwork> farzong seems like you are repeating the problem you complain about! buy NKL to prevent a cartel buying it all early!
3843 2011-03-09 21:20:28 <farzong> hehehe
3844 2011-03-09 21:21:03 <lfm> farzong: is just pouting cuz he isnt part of the cartel
3845 2011-03-09 21:21:06 <farzong> actually the problem is with money in general.. in accumulates in non-linear ways and has winner-take-all effects.. its not a continuous experience.. you need to build in decay/brakes/demand-driven second-order processes
3846 2011-03-09 21:21:10 <farzong> hahaha lfm
3847 2011-03-09 21:21:34 <knotwork> rent NKL miners to mine NKL for you now while difficulty is only 1 (one) !
3848 2011-03-09 21:22:40 <farzong> ok so what you can have is a distributed database - everyone synchronizes with each other by comparing merkle trees in log n time.. so you can only add transactions, and you can pick and choose because your hash would then stand out like a sore thumb
3849 2011-03-09 21:22:50 <forrestv> anyone know of a python implementation of a bitcoin(-like?) system?
3850 2011-03-09 21:22:53 <farzong> the distributed database handles the transaction log, and each tx is signed
3851 2011-03-09 21:23:11 <farzong> forrestv: ArtForz has an awesome script posted
3852 2011-03-09 21:23:28 <knotwork> soeaking of picking and choosing your hash, some galactic nation govt's are considering generating oodles of addresses
3853 2011-03-09 21:23:41 <farzong> knotwork: nuke them!
3854 2011-03-09 21:23:43 <knotwork> centrally then issuing them to departments based on certain digits, the first or last
3855 2011-03-09 21:24:06 <knotwork> so by looking at those digits of the address you will know which department they are assigned to
3856 2011-03-09 21:24:31 <lfm> afaik bitcoin is still quite unique
3857 2011-03-09 21:24:47 <farzong> bitcoin is awesome
3858 2011-03-09 21:24:57 <farzong> if i had any money to my name id buy more. im broke
3859 2011-03-09 21:25:14 <knotwork> bitcoin is not unique! it is a galactic standard technology brought to Earth by Agent Satoshi
3860 2011-03-09 21:25:18 <farzong> my guess is that there wont be selloffs until btc is like $10K
3861 2011-03-09 21:25:31 <farzong> satoshi is a time traveller from the future? intersting
3862 2011-03-09 21:26:01 <knotwork> hey I didnt say he is an Agent of the Institute of Chronodynamics. That is pure speculation on your part.
3863 2011-03-09 21:26:04 <farzong> bitcoin is the most ingenious innovation in finance since the invention of barter
3864 2011-03-09 21:27:50 <lfm> yup satoshi froze himself with his key for 1000000 btc and isnt gonna thaw out till its worth $10k/btc
3865 2011-03-09 21:27:58 <farzong> haha
3866 2011-03-09 21:29:14 <forrestv> if previous transactions aren't stored (their hashes are just stored in merkle trees), then how is double spending prevented?
3867 2011-03-09 21:30:38 <lfm> forrestv: any (unspent) txn is stored in its entirty
3868 2011-03-09 21:30:44 <knotwork> forrestv: they are stored, just not necesarrily forever *once completely spend* and not necessarily by "thin" clients
3869 2011-03-09 21:30:45 larsig has joined
3870 2011-03-09 21:30:56 <Kiba> OH! I long to see the future
3871 2011-03-09 21:31:09 <lfm> kiba you just did
3872 2011-03-09 21:31:18 <knotwork> and again
3873 2011-03-09 21:31:48 jaminja has joined
3874 2011-03-09 21:32:43 <farzong> with a lot of activity, only a few big nodes would be able to store the complete tree
3875 2011-03-09 21:32:49 <knotwork> It is speculated of course that Agent Satoshi might be either the original inventor Satoshi who introduced the tech to the galaxy in the late 1500's or a direct descendant
3876 2011-03-09 21:33:02 <lfm> farzong: i dont think so
3877 2011-03-09 21:34:11 <lfm> long ago in a galaxy far far away?
3878 2011-03-09 21:34:13 <farzong> if everyone wants maximal anonymity, you could have thousands of buckets per person... you could have trillions of tx
3879 2011-03-09 21:34:36 <farzong> the only nodes in a position to verify the non-existence of double-spend would need huge hash tables
3880 2011-03-09 21:34:42 <knotwork> farzong yes, hence lots of alternate blockchain currencies, to keep some of that volume off the main
3881 2011-03-09 21:34:46 <knotwork> bitcoin blockchain
3882 2011-03-09 21:34:48 <lfm> I got enuf buckets,
3883 2011-03-09 21:35:30 <knotwork> drug dealers can use MRJ, COK, HER etc etc currencies
3884 2011-03-09 21:35:57 spenvo has joined
3885 2011-03-09 21:36:07 <knotwork> great potential for laundromats there
3886 2011-03-09 21:36:17 <farzong> and whores
3887 2011-03-09 21:36:20 <farzong> laundromat haha
3888 2011-03-09 21:36:24 <knotwork> WHO ?
3889 2011-03-09 21:36:28 <BlueMatt> is there no way to get email notifications on the forum?
3890 2011-03-09 21:36:31 <spenvo> this week in google is live.  it's exhausting trying to promote bitcoin over there
3891 2011-03-09 21:36:43 <spenvo> i'm by design in the twit irc
3892 2011-03-09 21:36:45 <knotwork> or HOR might be easier to interpret
3893 2011-03-09 21:36:57 <spenvo> * nick is "by design
3894 2011-03-09 21:36:58 <farzong> anyway, scaling to a billion users is obviously not an issue now.. its not a flaw in the system
3895 2011-03-09 21:40:00 amiller has joined
3896 2011-03-09 21:42:28 * farzong quaffs a draught of tiger blood
3897 2011-03-09 21:44:38 kelvie_` has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3898 2011-03-09 21:46:29 <mmagic> what the heck is NKL?
3899 2011-03-09 21:46:40 <BlueMatt> interested in potential network attacks? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4335.0
3900 2011-03-09 21:46:41 <edcba_> nickel ?
3901 2011-03-09 21:46:57 noagendamarket has joined
3902 2011-03-09 21:48:07 <jrabbit> oh yeah how do I use a backup of my wallet
3903 2011-03-09 21:48:13 <jrabbit> (I have a dump of .bitcoin)
3904 2011-03-09 21:48:24 <jrabbit> just copy it over and bitcoin will figure it out?
3905 2011-03-09 21:48:48 <farzong> i assume
3906 2011-03-09 21:48:52 <farzong> but keep a backup just in case
3907 2011-03-09 21:49:31 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
3908 2011-03-09 21:49:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 112929 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1982 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 69235.75774184
3909 2011-03-09 21:50:55 <mmagic> farzong: you assume? some newb is asking newb questions and you're answering his questions without actually knowing?
3910 2011-03-09 21:51:12 <farzong> yeah im just making shit up that sounds plausible..
3911 2011-03-09 21:51:27 <jrabbit> mmagic: I'm not some noob tyvm but I don't know what I'm doing wrt to the wallet
3912 2011-03-09 21:51:42 <farzong> if you have a backup, whats the harm in assuming it works like every other unix app :)
3913 2011-03-09 21:51:47 <mmagic> jrabbit: whatever. the point is, jerkwad here is just making shit up.
3914 2011-03-09 21:51:50 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3915 2011-03-09 21:51:55 <mmagic> jrabbit: so keep that in mind.
3916 2011-03-09 21:52:12 <farzong> mmagic: do you know of some other place wallet state is kept other than .bitcoin ?
3917 2011-03-09 21:52:12 <jrabbit> lol
3918 2011-03-09 21:52:38 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, it should work fine but keep in mind that every 100 new addresses you'll want to have a new backup
3919 2011-03-09 21:52:44 <mmagic> farzong: I hear april showers bring may flowers. care to comment?
3920 2011-03-09 21:52:44 <farzong> mmagic: so you dont know either!
3921 2011-03-09 21:53:09 <farzong> mmagic: if you dont know what youre talking about... i dont see how you can complain about anything
3922 2011-03-09 21:53:30 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: 100 new addresses?
3923 2011-03-09 21:53:33 <jrabbit> whats that mean?
3924 2011-03-09 21:53:44 <jrabbit> i.e. the backup is a month old or so?
3925 2011-03-09 21:53:45 <ArtForz> copy over wallet, if you have blkindex/blk0001, start bitcoin with -rescan so it picks up transavctions to addresses in wallet that are already ins tored blocks but not in wallet (can happen if blkindex and wallet come from different backups), if you dont have blkindex/blk0001, just fire up bitcoin
3926 2011-03-09 21:54:11 <lfm> screwing around with wallet copies can cost you all your bitcoins even if you have a "backup"
3927 2011-03-09 21:54:18 <ArtForz> yep
3928 2011-03-09 21:54:25 <jrabbit> :|
3929 2011-03-09 21:54:32 <jrabbit> ok
3930 2011-03-09 21:54:32 <farzong> thx ArtForz
3931 2011-03-09 21:54:40 <farzong> see.. someone who knows whats going on
3932 2011-03-09 21:54:42 <farzong> hehe
3933 2011-03-09 21:54:45 <mmagic> farzong: trolling someone that took 24 minutes to ID you as a troll is usually a bit harder than that. try again.
3934 2011-03-09 21:54:49 * jrabbit swears at apple
3935 2011-03-09 21:54:51 <phantomcircuit> lfm, eh how so? worst that happens if you manually rebuild the wallet file
3936 2011-03-09 21:54:52 <lfm> make sure you know what you are doing and dont fritz around if it aint broke
3937 2011-03-09 21:54:54 <mmarker> lfm: Uhh...howso.
3938 2011-03-09 21:55:13 * mmarker was going to do some tests on importing keypairs into the wallet to rebuild a backup...
3939 2011-03-09 21:55:16 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 47841
3940 2011-03-09 21:55:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 47841 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 11 weeks, 2 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 19 seconds
3941 2011-03-09 21:55:27 <lfm> make one extra txn and all your backups can be for naught
3942 2011-03-09 21:55:41 <farzong> mmagic: you are getting wrapped up into your own troll vortex
3943 2011-03-09 21:56:11 <mmagic> farzong: There was a crooked man.. who lived in a crooked house..
3944 2011-03-09 21:56:27 <farzong> did he have DirecTV
3945 2011-03-09 21:57:40 <farzong> anyone i admit i know nothing about bitcoin
3946 2011-03-09 21:57:42 Necr0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3947 2011-03-09 21:57:49 <farzong> im reading up on it.. artforz is correct that im full of shit
3948 2011-03-09 21:57:59 <farzong> however i do know there is a shadowy cartel
3949 2011-03-09 21:58:18 <lfm> pppphhhhhtttt dont make me spew
3950 2011-03-09 21:58:29 towerX is now known as tower
3951 2011-03-09 21:58:57 <spenvo> situation is hopeless in irc.twit.tv
3952 2011-03-09 21:59:21 <knotwork> mmarker: re NKL, try /msg nickelbot help
3953 2011-03-09 21:59:32 <lfm> spenvo: you couldnt guess that based on the name of the channel?
3954 2011-03-09 21:59:50 <knotwork> transvestite twits?
3955 2011-03-09 21:59:53 <phantomcircuit> lfm, the wallet has 100 forward addresses, so you'd have to make 100 transactions to new addresses inbetween backups
3956 2011-03-09 22:00:04 <spenvo> ugh, i'm about to have a seizure
3957 2011-03-09 22:00:10 <spenvo> the stream moves too quickly
3958 2011-03-09 22:00:31 <lfm> spenvo: you want us to call an ambulance for ya?
3959 2011-03-09 22:00:41 <farzong> drink it all!
3960 2011-03-09 22:00:59 <farzong> should i make a post to the forum titled "shadowy cartel"
3961 2011-03-09 22:01:08 <spenvo> no, i'm not a charity case and i can't pay an ambulance bill
3962 2011-03-09 22:01:26 <jrabbit> hoyl fuck .bitcoin is big
3963 2011-03-09 22:01:48 <jrabbit> ArtForz: so copy the whole thing over and start bitcoin on cli?
3964 2011-03-09 22:01:49 <lfm> jrabbit: compared to what?
3965 2011-03-09 22:01:57 <farzong> does the bitcoin client detect if youre out of synch.. and then automatically rescan
3966 2011-03-09 22:02:00 <jrabbit> lfm: its big! 388mb
3967 2011-03-09 22:02:24 jackmcbarn has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3968 2011-03-09 22:02:47 <lfm> jrabbit: not even 1 gb yet. cost about $0.005 to store it these days
3969 2011-03-09 22:03:10 <jrabbit> price isn't the fucking problem
3970 2011-03-09 22:03:12 <mmarker> lfm: How could one transaction screw things up...because the client generates a new key to send some change back?
3971 2011-03-09 22:03:24 <spenvo> can't believe I stayed awake for twig. i'm out
3972 2011-03-09 22:03:30 spenvo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3973 2011-03-09 22:04:08 validus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3974 2011-03-09 22:05:17 validus has joined
3975 2011-03-09 22:05:22 genjix has joined
3976 2011-03-09 22:05:23 genjix has quit (Changing host)
3977 2011-03-09 22:05:23 genjix has joined
3978 2011-03-09 22:05:42 <farzong> just snorted some crack
3979 2011-03-09 22:05:44 <lfm> mmarker yes it may save you if you still have some of those 100 addr valid. if your backup is old tho you still need to be carefull exactly what you do with old wallet files
3980 2011-03-09 22:06:02 <farzong> how do you just backup your private keys?
3981 2011-03-09 22:06:08 <farzong> and have everything else resynch
3982 2011-03-09 22:06:09 <phantomcircuit> now to see how long it takes to form a valid block chain from scratch
3983 2011-03-09 22:08:05 * lfm wonders if there is any point telling anything to someone who just claimed to take some drugs, will any of it sink in or will we have to repeat it when they sober up?
3984 2011-03-09 22:09:06 jackmcbarn has joined
3985 2011-03-09 22:10:06 <phantomcircuit> eh 2 minutes and im only at 20k
3986 2011-03-09 22:10:11 <phantomcircuit> i guess 160 blocks/second isn't *that* bad
3987 2011-03-09 22:10:48 phantomcircuit_ has joined
3988 2011-03-09 22:11:08 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3989 2011-03-09 22:11:10 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3990 2011-03-09 22:11:15 <farzong> bitcoin-lottery dot com
3991 2011-03-09 22:11:27 phantomcircuit has joined
3992 2011-03-09 22:12:04 <lfm> calcd
3993 2011-03-09 22:12:13 <jrabbit> ArtForz: EXCEPTION: 11DbException
3994 2011-03-09 22:12:13 <jrabbit> Db::open: Invalid argument
3995 2011-03-09 22:12:13 <jrabbit> bitcoin in AppInit()
3996 2011-03-09 22:12:33 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, did you compile from src?
3997 2011-03-09 22:12:36 <jrabbit> no
3998 2011-03-09 22:12:41 <phantomcircuit> noidea then
3999 2011-03-09 22:12:42 <jrabbit> but I used -rescan
4000 2011-03-09 22:12:45 <jrabbit> to launch
4001 2011-03-09 22:12:58 <jrabbit> ill try without
4002 2011-03-09 22:13:05 <ArtForz> huh, weird
4003 2011-03-09 22:13:08 <jrabbit> again got it
4004 2011-03-09 22:13:31 <ArtForz> what exactly did you copy/leave?
4005 2011-03-09 22:13:45 <jrabbit> ArtForz: all of ~/Library..../Bitcoin
4006 2011-03-09 22:14:17 <jrabbit> so the wallet the db the blocks...
4007 2011-03-09 22:14:57 <ArtForz> huh. thats... really weird
4008 2011-03-09 22:15:23 <lfm> phantomcircuit: at that rate you should be done in 12 minutes I think but I dont see it happening that quick
4009 2011-03-09 22:15:23 * jrabbit sigh
4010 2011-03-09 22:15:30 <farzong> i think your file is corrupted
4011 2011-03-09 22:15:45 <farzong> maybe copied it partially
4012 2011-03-09 22:16:06 <phantomcircuit> lfm, it's not doing tx verification
4013 2011-03-09 22:16:56 <mmagic> jrabbit:  make sure bitcoind isn't running. shut it down when you move around your datafiles manually..
4014 2011-03-09 22:17:02 altamic has joined
4015 2011-03-09 22:17:03 altamic has quit (Changing host)
4016 2011-03-09 22:17:03 altamic has joined
4017 2011-03-09 22:17:20 <jrabbit> mmagic: it shouldn't be... but it may have been when the backup occured.
4018 2011-03-09 22:17:30 <mmagic> doh
4019 2011-03-09 22:17:38 <jrabbit> its an automated backup
4020 2011-03-09 22:17:49 <jrabbit> I'll go back a day or two
4021 2011-03-09 22:18:10 <lfm> jrabbit: how did you make the backup? the cli backupwallet command?
4022 2011-03-09 22:18:22 <jrabbit> lfm: nope its from time machine.
4023 2011-03-09 22:18:57 <lfm> hmm, from what I have heard time machines cant be trusted
4024 2011-03-09 22:19:24 <lfm> jrabbit: or you mean the mac util? interesting, good luck with that
4025 2011-03-09 22:19:26 <jrabbit> hmmm this can't be good...
4026 2011-03-09 22:19:27 <ArtForz> hey, I said that tomorrow.
4027 2011-03-09 22:19:43 <jrabbit> the backup before of that wasn't touched since oct/10
4028 2011-03-09 22:19:44 <jrabbit> XD
4029 2011-03-09 22:20:17 <lfm> oct 10 was before the 100 address pool was started I think
4030 2011-03-09 22:20:34 <jrabbit> does that matter?
4031 2011-03-09 22:20:43 <jrabbit> I haven't done 100 actions on my wallet.
4032 2011-03-09 22:20:44 <ArtForz> anything in /database/ dir?
4033 2011-03-09 22:20:53 <jrabbit> ArtForz: yeah
4034 2011-03-09 22:20:56 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yeah took about 12 minutes to download all the txs/blocks and put them in a sqlite3 db with indexing
4035 2011-03-09 22:21:01 <jrabbit> bitcoin is sloowwly launching
4036 2011-03-09 22:21:03 <jrabbit> there we go
4037 2011-03-09 22:21:08 <lfm> phantomcircuit: cool
4038 2011-03-09 22:21:16 <jrabbit> ok its got everything.
4039 2011-03-09 22:21:29 <jrabbit> its pulling new blocks its at 88434
4040 2011-03-09 22:21:53 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
4041 2011-03-09 22:21:53 <gribble> 112931
4042 2011-03-09 22:21:58 <phantomcircuit> lfm, however it isn't even trying to do the expensive ECDSA tx verification
4043 2011-03-09 22:22:37 <lfm> phantomcircuit: should be able to do that on another thread at the same time
4044 2011-03-09 22:22:51 <phantomcircuit> oh wait im wrong it's only at 86k
4045 2011-03-09 22:22:51 <farzong> tigerblood
4046 2011-03-09 22:22:53 <phantomcircuit> damn
4047 2011-03-09 22:24:11 <farzong> hey just by looking at the tx, is it possible to get a wealth distribution (ignoring the fact that btc can be spread over arbitrary manny accts)
4048 2011-03-09 22:24:32 <farzong> how much btc is in the top quintile of addresses
4049 2011-03-09 22:25:53 <lfm> ;;bc,totalbc
4050 2011-03-09 22:25:54 <gribble> 5646650.00000000
4051 2011-03-09 22:26:07 <phantomcircuit> eh
4052 2011-03-09 22:26:16 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
4053 2011-03-09 22:26:17 <gribble> 112934
4054 2011-03-09 22:26:38 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,blocks] * 50
4055 2011-03-09 22:26:38 <gribble> 112,934 * 50 = 5,646,700
4056 2011-03-09 22:26:58 <jrabbit> ArtForz: cheers
4057 2011-03-09 22:26:58 <phantomcircuit> to make this faster id have to construct a DAG and find the head of the block chain from that
4058 2011-03-09 22:27:06 <edcba_> dag ?
4059 2011-03-09 22:27:39 <lfm> phantomcircuit: cant you just request block 0
4060 2011-03-09 22:29:00 <farzong> http://projects.skewed.de/graph-tool/
4061 2011-03-09 22:30:13 <phantomcircuit> lfm, i have to either have the head or the tail
4062 2011-03-09 22:30:46 <phantomcircuit> lfm, if i just have the genesis block then i can only build from the head up and hope that the peers im connected to aren't lying
4063 2011-03-09 22:30:47 <lfm> phantomcircuit: ya, prolly best to keep track of both the best you can
4064 2011-03-09 22:31:08 <phantomcircuit> lfm, well this is for the initial chain creation, so i only have the genesis block
4065 2011-03-09 22:31:14 <lfm> phantomcircuit: you can check your peers against each other
4066 2011-03-09 22:31:22 <phantomcircuit> oh yeah i do
4067 2011-03-09 22:31:31 <phantomcircuit> i send all of them identical getblock requests
4068 2011-03-09 22:31:38 <phantomcircuit> which is part of why this is slow as hell
4069 2011-03-09 22:31:38 <phantomcircuit> xD
4070 2011-03-09 22:31:56 <phantomcircuit> for every block i add to the chain i have to not add 1
4071 2011-03-09 22:32:02 <lfm> mainly you actually build a tree with "prevhash" pointing to the next level toward the root
4072 2011-03-09 22:32:22 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yeah
4073 2011-03-09 22:32:29 <lfm> then decide which branch is longest
4074 2011-03-09 22:32:46 <phantomcircuit> the real speed up would be building a DAG that builds next_blocks pointer lists as it goes
4075 2011-03-09 22:33:18 <phantomcircuit> lfm, as it stands i calculate the height of each block as the sum of the difficulty of each block before it
4076 2011-03-09 22:33:34 <lfm> phantomcircuit: ya just "next block" is abiguous when you have those collisions/forks
4077 2011-03-09 22:33:48 <phantomcircuit> lfm, that's why i said next blocks
4078 2011-03-09 22:33:50 <phantomcircuit> :P
4079 2011-03-09 22:34:59 <phantomcircuit> lfm, https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/blob/master/bitcoin/storage.py#L66
4080 2011-03-09 22:35:05 <lfm> when I was building the tree i just used the "chain" block number as the height, close enuf
4081 2011-03-09 22:35:26 <lfm> my python aint that great
4082 2011-03-09 22:35:40 <phantomcircuit> lfm, that's a bad way to do it, i could pretty trivially produce a ton of blocks with low difficulty
4083 2011-03-09 22:35:45 mmarker has quit (Quit: Vroom!)
4084 2011-03-09 22:39:00 <lfm> phantomcircuit: ya, I guess so, I wasnt reading looking at untrusted block tho, just parsing blk0001.dat actually
4085 2011-03-09 22:39:57 <phantomcircuit> that can have untrusted blocks
4086 2011-03-09 22:40:56 <lfm> they have been processed by bitcoin(d) already tho. it wasnt a concern of mine, just doing some stats, read only stuff
4087 2011-03-09 22:41:31 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4088 2011-03-09 22:41:46 molecular has joined
4089 2011-03-09 22:43:49 <farzong> gimme coin
4090 2011-03-09 22:43:52 <farzong> im broke mang
4091 2011-03-09 22:44:29 akem has joined
4092 2011-03-09 22:44:29 akem has quit (Changing host)
4093 2011-03-09 22:44:29 akem has joined
4094 2011-03-09 22:45:15 <phantomcircuit> lfm, oh
4095 2011-03-09 22:45:23 <phantomcircuit> lfm, if it's not for verifying tx's who cares
4096 2011-03-09 22:46:46 <genjix> jgarzik: who handles releases? is it gavin?
4097 2011-03-09 22:47:11 <jgarzik> genjix: yes
4098 2011-03-09 22:47:55 <genjix> thanks
4099 2011-03-09 22:49:57 noagendamarket has quit (Changing host)
4100 2011-03-09 22:49:57 noagendamarket has joined
4101 2011-03-09 22:52:18 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
4102 2011-03-09 22:53:24 <farzong> my landlord is demanding more btc
4103 2011-03-09 22:53:26 <farzong> im all out
4104 2011-03-09 22:54:26 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4105 2011-03-09 22:55:40 <Kiba>  lol
4106 2011-03-09 22:57:58 <nanotube> farzong: you can buy more on the various markets.
4107 2011-03-09 22:57:59 <phantomcircuit> farzong, i will donate 100 BTC in return for a special favor
4108 2011-03-09 22:58:10 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: how 'special'? :)
4109 2011-03-09 22:58:52 <phantomcircuit> agreement before details
4110 2011-03-09 23:00:51 sprash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4111 2011-03-09 23:09:03 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, cookies
4112 2011-03-09 23:09:30 <jrabbit> huh?
4113 2011-03-09 23:10:50 <mizerydearia> Has anyone seen 12 Monkeys?  Here's 5 Monkeys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZeiSKnhOBc -- Check it out!
4114 2011-03-09 23:12:00 doublec has joined
4115 2011-03-09 23:14:37 <edcba_> that's stupid
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4121 2011-03-09 23:54:28 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: hey
4122 2011-03-09 23:55:03 <MagicalTux> hi
4123 2011-03-09 23:55:53 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: I'm interested in your opinion on a Dozenal BitCoin representation
4124 2011-03-09 23:56:28 <luke-jr> since there appear to be more people using Dozenal than Tonal, it might make sense
4125 2011-03-09 23:57:17 <MagicalTux> I think there's even more people using decimal, you know :D
4126 2011-03-09 23:57:25 <MagicalTux> anyway I never heared about dozenal before
4127 2011-03-09 23:58:57 kelvie_ has joined