1 2011-03-11 00:00:06 <doublec> luke-jr: even with a persistent connection
2 2011-03-11 00:00:24 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|nonsense
3 2011-03-11 00:00:28 <dirtyfilthy> heh, i didn't even know there was #bitcoin-discussion
4 2011-03-11 00:00:30 <doublec> luke-jr|otg: for example, the dsl modem next to me will automatically put to sleep tcp connections after a short period of time
5 2011-03-11 00:00:43 <doublec> luke-jr|otg: the client or server does not get any indication of this - things just hang
6 2011-03-11 00:00:51 FreeTheNation has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
7 2011-03-11 00:01:13 <doublec> luke-jr|otg: the only workaround is regular heartbeat's on the persistent connection
8 2011-03-11 00:01:36 FreeTheNation has joined
9 2011-03-11 00:01:39 <BlueMatt> see it just keeps getting more complicated, rpc is really simple
10 2011-03-11 00:01:47 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|doublec, which is trivial
11 2011-03-11 00:02:14 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
12 2011-03-11 00:02:31 <doublec> luke-jr|otg: not really since now you need to add heartbeats to the protocol, which has overhead. You need to provide a way to configure the time of it, etc.
13 2011-03-11 00:02:43 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|BlueMatt, it can be simple for simple things
14 2011-03-11 00:03:00 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|doublec, TCP has heartbeats
15 2011-03-11 00:03:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr|otg: it is for rpc too
16 2011-03-11 00:03:08 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|just enable it
17 2011-03-11 00:03:20 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|far less overhead than polling
18 2011-03-11 00:03:37 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|BlueMatt, but RPC *cant* do non-simple
19 2011-03-11 00:03:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr|otg: in any case Im done discussing this, if you are able to make a great new protocol everyone will accept it, but most people aren't gonna take time to help code it
20 2011-03-11 00:03:46 <doublec> luke-jr|otg: it still doesn't solve the issue with these modems. Sure, you can argue that they're broken but they're very common.
21 2011-03-11 00:05:42 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|doublec, you turned on tcp keepalive and still have problems?
22 2011-03-11 00:06:03 <doublec> yes
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24 2011-03-11 00:07:25 ovatork has quit (Quit: Page closed)
25 2011-03-11 00:07:31 <midnightmagic> mizerydearia: i had a big order up and someone just darkpool snapped half of it up.
26 2011-03-11 00:08:42 jrabbit has joined
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29 2011-03-11 00:11:33 devon_hillard has joined
30 2011-03-11 00:12:25 <mizerydearia> midnightmagic, oh?
31 2011-03-11 00:12:32 <mizerydearia> what kind of order?
32 2011-03-11 00:13:09 * mizerydearia glances at http://onelook.com/?w=*_order&scwo=1&sswo=0
33 2011-03-11 00:14:18 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
34 2011-03-11 00:15:22 tower has joined
35 2011-03-11 00:15:24 <midnightmagic> sell order, waiting for the prices to come back up.
36 2011-03-11 00:16:30 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste)
37 2011-03-11 00:17:34 amiller has joined
38 2011-03-11 00:17:57 tower is now known as towerX
39 2011-03-11 00:18:58 <Diablo-D3> wow
40 2011-03-11 00:19:05 <Diablo-D3> I have just heard the most hilarious argument ever
41 2011-03-11 00:19:20 <Diablo-D3> so, everytime you pirate a movie, it costs the RIAA millions of dollars, right?
42 2011-03-11 00:19:37 <Diablo-D3> we should all be downloading CP for the express purpose to bankrupt the CP industry.
43 2011-03-11 00:20:12 spaetz has joined
44 2011-03-11 00:20:29 * Diablo-D3 is just in awe of that logic
45 2011-03-11 00:20:40 <phantomcircuit> is anybody else seeing a ton of tx spam?
46 2011-03-11 00:20:55 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: thats normal
47 2011-03-11 00:21:04 <phantomcircuit> lol alright
48 2011-03-11 00:21:18 <phantomcircuit> how many valid tx's are in the block chain?
49 2011-03-11 00:22:42 <Diablo-D3> I'd suspect very little
50 2011-03-11 00:23:01 <Diablo-D3> we have this douchebag who shows up time to time and spams txes to himself in an effort to attack the network
51 2011-03-11 00:23:07 <Diablo-D3> you know what we do in response?
52 2011-03-11 00:23:12 <Diablo-D3> happily collect tx fees.
53 2011-03-11 00:23:29 <phantomcircuit> lol
54 2011-03-11 00:23:49 <phantomcircuit> select count(hash) from txs;
55 2011-03-11 00:23:49 <phantomcircuit> 320492
56 2011-03-11 00:24:03 <phantomcircuit> yeah my python client which currently doesnt even try and verify txs seems to have a lot of them
57 2011-03-11 00:24:10 <phantomcircuit> and there seem to always be more and more of them
58 2011-03-11 00:24:16 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
59 2011-03-11 00:24:22 <Diablo-D3> verification of txs is required
60 2011-03-11 00:24:25 <phantomcircuit> like much faster than would be expected
61 2011-03-11 00:24:31 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, lol yeah im aware
62 2011-03-11 00:24:43 <phantomcircuit> client currently just constructs a block chain
63 2011-03-11 00:27:46 <BitterTea> <farzong> my patch wouldnt get used.. ppl are not ready to fix the problems
64 2011-03-11 00:27:53 <BitterTea> <farzong> heres the code: bounty /= 1000.0;
65 2011-03-11 00:27:58 <BitterTea> guys, farzong fixed bitcoin
66 2011-03-11 00:32:09 ApertureScience has joined
67 2011-03-11 00:32:27 <mizerydearia> midnightmagic, oh? I forgot what I said or asked earlier. Was that in response to something I said?
68 2011-03-11 00:35:23 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: well, you do realize what the mainline client does, right?
69 2011-03-11 00:35:32 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: it verifies the block, including all the tx's
70 2011-03-11 00:35:41 <Diablo-D3> if your client gens a block, and its invalid, sucks to be you
71 2011-03-11 00:36:40 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, lol i dont have a gpu capable of mining
72 2011-03-11 00:36:52 <phantomcircuit> and my cpu isn't even close to efficient enough for it to be worth it
73 2011-03-11 00:37:33 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: you're missing the point
74 2011-03-11 00:38:24 <phantomcircuit> no im not
75 2011-03-11 00:38:38 <phantomcircuit> i haven't even begun to attempt to verify txs
76 2011-03-11 00:39:22 BitterTea has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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80 2011-03-11 00:55:58 <mizerydearia> I have established an i2p gateway for #witcoin
81 2011-03-11 00:59:20 <midnightmagic> mizerydearia: woops. my mistake..
82 2011-03-11 01:04:30 validus has joined
83 2011-03-11 01:09:02 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
84 2011-03-11 01:13:50 Cusipzzz has joined
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86 2011-03-11 01:26:38 Syke has joined
87 2011-03-11 01:26:40 <ousado> hm.. how do I tell when bitcoin starts generating coins and done with download+verification?
88 2011-03-11 01:27:06 <Kiba> ousado: block download is separate from bitcoin generation
89 2011-03-11 01:29:41 <ousado> ah, thanks, I see, it's a bit misleading here: https://www.bitcoin.org/faq#How_long_does_it_take_to_generate_a_coin
90 2011-03-11 01:30:02 Syke_ has joined
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92 2011-03-11 01:36:19 <farzong> bitcoin is the best
93 2011-03-11 01:39:16 <farzong> coinme
94 2011-03-11 01:39:25 <farzong> i need moar coins
95 2011-03-11 01:43:34 <phantomcircuit> ousado, you cant generate a valid block until you've downloaded and verified all the txs (actually the tx verification part isn't strictly necessary for block generation)
96 2011-03-11 01:46:32 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
97 2011-03-11 01:46:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113070 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65612.08939947
98 2011-03-11 01:48:37 <ousado> ok, how do I tell when verification is done? it doesn't it take significantly longer than the download, right?
99 2011-03-11 01:49:45 <JFK911> lol difficulty
100 2011-03-11 01:49:51 <JFK911> there's severe manipulation
101 2011-03-11 01:51:12 Omni is now known as AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Omnifarious
102 2011-03-11 01:52:58 <jgarzik> ousado: Once you have 113,071 blocks
103 2011-03-11 01:54:16 <ousado> ah, I see, then I'm done
104 2011-03-11 01:55:21 TheKid has joined
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117 2011-03-11 02:25:58 farzong is now known as blarzong
118 2011-03-11 02:26:42 <blarzong> sorry ArtForz, jedrek, BitterTea, da2ce7, edcba, dust1, dirtyfilthy, FatherMcGruder, agorist, _W_, you guys are smart and brilliant. i was wrong about certain aspects of the protocol, you were right
119 2011-03-11 02:28:29 <MagicalTux> not often we can see someone say that on internet
120 2011-03-11 02:30:47 <Cusipzzz> lol
121 2011-03-11 02:30:48 <mizerydearia> take silkroadmarket.com for example (not mine). It is hosted on i2p, but would there be any location that is safe to host such a site?
122 2011-03-11 02:30:51 dissipate_ has joined
123 2011-03-11 02:30:53 <mizerydearia> oops, wrong chan
124 2011-03-11 02:36:07 sgornick has joined
125 2011-03-11 02:41:06 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, is that on i2p?
126 2011-03-11 02:42:24 amiller has joined
127 2011-03-11 02:43:17 <mizerydearia> phantomcircuit, I believe so
128 2011-03-11 02:44:09 <mizerydearia> I used it as an example questioning where may be a jurisdication that may be acceptance of hosting content that may otherwise seemingly be legal in areas such as us
129 2011-03-11 02:44:24 <mizerydearia> Particularly, however, my concern was for witcoin, but I didn't want to use it as an example
130 2011-03-11 02:44:50 <mizerydearia> s/legal/illegal/
131 2011-03-11 02:44:53 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, if you're afraid purchase a cc gift card in cash, use that to buy a vps, then run tor on the vps
132 2011-03-11 02:45:19 <mizerydearia> I don't want to run witcoin through tor. I'd rather have it open to more users
133 2011-03-11 02:45:29 <mizerydearia> besides, even if I ran it on tor, it's already too late
134 2011-03-11 02:46:07 <mizerydearia> s/on/using/
135 2011-03-11 02:46:07 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
136 2011-03-11 02:47:18 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
137 2011-03-11 02:47:19 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, you could always do both
138 2011-03-11 02:47:53 <x6763> "the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks" ... wouldn't that just be the timestamp of the 6th most recent block? (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_timestamp)
139 2011-03-11 02:47:56 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
140 2011-03-11 02:49:11 <x6763> or am i misunderstanding what is meant by "median"?
141 2011-03-11 02:49:26 <x6763> oh nevermind
142 2011-03-11 02:49:31 <mizerydearia> phantomcircuit, again, that would be unnecessary and naive
143 2011-03-11 02:49:53 <mizerydearia> i2p is useful to disassociate content with entity
144 2011-03-11 02:50:04 <mizerydearia> witcoin is already associated with my entity
145 2011-03-11 02:50:10 <x6763> i wasn't thinking about sorting the timestamps first
146 2011-03-11 02:50:24 <x6763> now it makes sense
147 2011-03-11 02:50:39 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, well if it's already associated with you and you want to include content which is illegal in your jurisdiction
148 2011-03-11 02:50:42 <phantomcircuit> you cant
149 2011-03-11 02:50:57 <mizerydearia> but I already do?
150 2011-03-11 02:51:32 <mizerydearia> My concern for now is to determine which jurisdiction it is legal or acceptable and to establish a server in that location.
151 2011-03-11 02:52:21 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, in most jurisdictions that wont helpyou
152 2011-03-11 02:52:24 <phantomcircuit> especially in the US
153 2011-03-11 02:54:02 <mizerydearia> my aim is to find out specifically what those lease jurisdictions are.
154 2011-03-11 02:54:06 <mizerydearia> least*
155 2011-03-11 02:54:37 <mizerydearia> and note that I am not cheating and using an aimbot
156 2011-03-11 02:57:39 <dirtyfilthy> omgwtfhax
157 2011-03-11 03:02:00 agorist has joined
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159 2011-03-11 03:05:21 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, wat?
160 2011-03-11 03:11:15 <javagamer> Is it possible to remove addresses from an account or just forget about them?
161 2011-03-11 03:12:11 <lfm> javagamer: not normally
162 2011-03-11 03:12:36 <javagamer> lfm: Alright, just wondering
163 2011-03-11 03:13:27 <lfm> javagamer: you can move em to another account I think
164 2011-03-11 03:13:48 <javagamer> lfm: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking I'll do
165 2011-03-11 03:15:57 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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172 2011-03-11 03:19:55 <mmarker> ;;bc,blocks
173 2011-03-11 03:19:56 <gribble> 113084
174 2011-03-11 03:20:33 <dissipate_> ;;bc,stats
175 2011-03-11 03:20:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113084 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1827 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 7 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67183.42134901
176 2011-03-11 03:27:29 <noagendamarket> hmm going up again
177 2011-03-11 03:28:32 Omnifarious is now known as Omni|AFK
178 2011-03-11 03:28:58 <mmarker> noagendamarket, from earlier today?
179 2011-03-11 03:29:39 <noagendamarket> yeah it was 65000 not long ago
180 2011-03-11 03:29:45 <mmarker> ahh.
181 2011-03-11 03:29:58 <mmarker> I'm guessing there;s a bit of noise at this point
182 2011-03-11 03:30:01 <noagendamarket> Next Difficulty Estimate: 65612.08939947
183 2011-03-11 03:30:17 <mmarker> Evening, the kiddies are home, firing up their PCs
184 2011-03-11 03:30:33 <mmarker> Where's sipa's graphs
185 2011-03-11 03:30:40 <noagendamarket> ah that might explain it
186 2011-03-11 03:31:33 <mmarker> Yea, his graphs aren't that fine
187 2011-03-11 03:31:48 <dissipate_> is difficulty going to go up or down next round?
188 2011-03-11 03:31:56 <mmarker> Overall, who knows!
189 2011-03-11 03:32:11 <mmarker> It is at 76k, looks like MAYBE 65-67k?
190 2011-03-11 03:32:16 <mmarker> But it all depends
191 2011-03-11 03:32:22 <dissipate_> so some have bowed out
192 2011-03-11 03:32:24 <dissipate_> haha
193 2011-03-11 03:32:36 <mmarker> No, there was the massive botnet/whatever spike
194 2011-03-11 03:32:54 <mmarker> which just really shook everything to hell
195 2011-03-11 03:33:14 <dissipate_> ouch, that sucks
196 2011-03-11 03:33:24 <dissipate_> could have been a government botnet
197 2011-03-11 03:33:34 <dissipate_> i warned about that awhile back. no one seemed to care.
198 2011-03-11 03:33:49 <mmarker> dissipate: Most likely a bored hacker, really
199 2011-03-11 03:35:06 <lfm> the government doesnt do botnets. they just buy as many computers as they need
200 2011-03-11 03:35:07 <noagendamarket> does the government even care about it considering they can extort cash from people irl
201 2011-03-11 03:35:16 <mmarker> If you look at sipa's chart, the peaks are all very regular.
202 2011-03-11 03:35:27 <mmarker> Actually, where is sipa. I'm assuming his charts are in UTC?
203 2011-03-11 03:36:00 <mmarker> It's really odd. The peaks all correspond with high noon UTC.
204 2011-03-11 03:36:01 <Avemo> some admin maybe stealing supercomputer time
205 2011-03-11 03:36:18 <mmarker> Avemo: Which is why the X axis is important
206 2011-03-11 03:36:23 <jrabbit> or allocated time.
207 2011-03-11 03:36:26 <mmarker> But it's so damn regular
208 2011-03-11 03:37:08 <Avemo> maybe not stealing but renting while electricity is low priced
209 2011-03-11 03:37:18 <mmarker> Avemo: Ore, more apt
210 2011-03-11 03:37:20 <mmarker> err
211 2011-03-11 03:37:28 * MagicalTux looking for theymos
212 2011-03-11 03:37:31 <mmarker> more apt. A uni or private business node
213 2011-03-11 03:37:47 <mmarker> machines go idle at night, use something like Condor to fire them all up
214 2011-03-11 03:37:49 <[Tycho]> At first half the peaks were in midnight, in second half - at noon.
215 2011-03-11 03:37:53 <mmarker> or a modified BOINC
216 2011-03-11 03:38:28 <mmarker> I only see the noon. The spike around 6/3 is a bit wonky
217 2011-03-11 03:38:38 <mmarker> looks like someone just got a asston of time then.
218 2011-03-11 03:38:47 <mmarker> But the 6th was a weekend
219 2011-03-11 03:38:51 <mmarker> Yea, business machines
220 2011-03-11 03:39:32 <mmarker> Hmm, that may be a fun project. Set up a BOINC task to mine
221 2011-03-11 03:40:11 <Avemo> maybe folding need some money lol
222 2011-03-11 03:40:25 <mmarker> well, no
223 2011-03-11 03:40:38 <mmarker> more like "student admin who can push software to computer labs"
224 2011-03-11 03:40:40 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
225 2011-03-11 03:41:00 <mmarker> so....you push clients to nodes, and when they'r idle, you go to work
226 2011-03-11 03:41:02 <Avemo> that's quite a lab
227 2011-03-11 03:41:23 <Avemo> like 1k 5970 worth
228 2011-03-11 03:41:27 <mmarker> avemo: My undergrad...we had a few thousand computers scattered about the whole campus
229 2011-03-11 03:42:07 <mmarker> I know some labs had maybe 30 computers...and maybe 2 people using them at any given time
230 2011-03-11 03:42:51 BlueMatt has joined
231 2011-03-11 03:42:51 <Avemo> nahh it's NSA testing their sha256 ASIC farm
232 2011-03-11 03:42:59 <mmarker> No, that's ArtForz
233 2011-03-11 03:43:27 jgarzik has joined
234 2011-03-11 03:46:02 zylche has joined
235 2011-03-11 03:47:18 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
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238 2011-03-11 03:53:31 mmarker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
239 2011-03-11 03:53:47 <da2ce7> "Mac OS X is like living in a farmhouse in the country with no locks, and Windows is living in a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town."
240 2011-03-11 03:58:52 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
241 2011-03-11 04:01:45 <blarzong> how do i donate to the bitcoin development team for creating this awesome system?
242 2011-03-11 04:02:22 <`Jaka> you donate to me
243 2011-03-11 04:03:00 <blarzong> ok cool
244 2011-03-11 04:03:17 <blarzong> to your bitcoin address?
245 2011-03-11 04:03:23 <blarzong> or paypal
246 2011-03-11 04:03:57 <Avemo> I hope you r not seriously going to donate to a stranger
247 2011-03-11 04:04:54 <Avemo> bettter send somethig to bitcoin fauthet
248 2011-03-11 04:04:55 <noagendamarket> 14bnMoxFmiM6sERKnqQ2qaN2ejDMMXEVhL you can donate there and Ill spend it on hookers and blow
249 2011-03-11 04:06:13 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
250 2011-03-11 04:06:48 <blarzong> heheh
251 2011-03-11 04:06:52 <blarzong> cool
252 2011-03-11 04:06:53 phantomcircuit has joined
253 2011-03-11 04:11:59 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
254 2011-03-11 04:13:16 <Kiba> anybody knows a good scheme compiler?
255 2011-03-11 04:16:39 Guest49657 has joined
256 2011-03-11 04:18:00 agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
257 2011-03-11 04:18:28 <blarzong> gnu scheme is nice
258 2011-03-11 04:19:07 <blarzong> or CHICKEN
259 2011-03-11 04:26:13 <phantomcircuit> there's more than one?
260 2011-03-11 04:26:30 Bosma has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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266 2011-03-11 04:35:25 <blarzong> whats new
267 2011-03-11 04:42:01 Kevinejohn has joined
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269 2011-03-11 04:44:59 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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271 2011-03-11 04:52:32 <theymos> MagicalTux: You were looking for me?
272 2011-03-11 04:53:27 <mizerydearia> hey, would anyone be willing to upvote http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/g1p3p/is_linking_to_content_illegal_apparently/ please?
273 2011-03-11 04:59:00 <Aciid> mizerydearia: controverlsial
274 2011-03-11 04:59:06 <Aciid> mizerydearia: is witcoin yyour service?
275 2011-03-11 04:59:09 <mizerydearia> it is
276 2011-03-11 04:59:32 <Aciid> you could imporive it a little if you wish to keep tha spam at minimum
277 2011-03-11 04:59:42 <Aciid> have bitcoin confirm of the account
278 2011-03-11 04:59:52 <noagendamarket> lol we havent had any spam
279 2011-03-11 04:59:53 <mizerydearia> huh?
280 2011-03-11 04:59:53 <Aciid> maybe pay ~0.01 for the registeration
281 2011-03-11 05:00:01 <mizerydearia> have you used the site yet?
282 2011-03-11 05:00:15 <Aciid> username:password type of registeration brings spam
283 2011-03-11 05:00:17 <Aciid> lots of it
284 2011-03-11 05:00:22 <mizerydearia> have you used the site yet?
285 2011-03-11 05:00:30 <mizerydearia> try to spam on it. good luck
286 2011-03-11 05:00:35 <noagendamarket> Aciid i suggest you try it
287 2011-03-11 05:00:43 <noagendamarket> it will be expensive
288 2011-03-11 05:00:43 <Aciid> okey :<
289 2011-03-11 05:00:51 <noagendamarket> :)
290 2011-03-11 05:00:52 <Aciid> ah so it costs to post
291 2011-03-11 05:00:54 <Aciid> dejavu
292 2011-03-11 05:01:03 <Aciid> oh we were speakin about this earlier
293 2011-03-11 05:01:04 <Aciid> lol
294 2011-03-11 05:01:19 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
295 2011-03-11 05:01:47 <theymos> I wish witcoin had some page with "top new stuff" that I could check daily for new stuff that I haven't seen before. Like the reddit front page.
296 2011-03-11 05:04:21 <mizerydearia> hmm
297 2011-03-11 05:07:02 Kevinejohn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
298 2011-03-11 05:09:31 * Kiba hopes for someone to vote his article up
299 2011-03-11 05:09:57 dissipate_ has joined
300 2011-03-11 05:12:23 <MagicalTux> theymos, yep, mind to go private? :p
301 2011-03-11 05:12:32 <theymos> Sure.
302 2011-03-11 05:30:02 Mango-chan has joined
303 2011-03-11 05:30:03 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
304 2011-03-11 05:30:03 Mango-chan has joined
305 2011-03-11 05:30:13 <mizerydearia> "users will resort to distributed commodities like Bitcoin because of web of fear" - http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/g1p3p/is_linking_to_content_illegal_apparently/#
306 2011-03-11 05:30:24 Mango-chan has quit (Client Quit)
307 2011-03-11 05:30:30 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
308 2011-03-11 05:30:39 Mango-chan has joined
309 2011-03-11 05:30:40 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
310 2011-03-11 05:30:40 Mango-chan has joined
311 2011-03-11 05:32:28 <dirtyfilthy> mizerydearia: fuck that man, switch providers
312 2011-03-11 05:34:00 agorist has joined
313 2011-03-11 05:34:57 Mango-chan has quit (Client Quit)
314 2011-03-11 05:35:20 Guest49657 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
315 2011-03-11 05:35:24 <mizerydearia> dirtyfilthy, switch to?
316 2011-03-11 05:36:03 Mango-chan has joined
317 2011-03-11 05:36:04 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
318 2011-03-11 05:36:04 Mango-chan has joined
319 2011-03-11 05:36:05 <dirtyfilthy> provider outside the states maybe
320 2011-03-11 05:37:10 <echelon> mizerydearia, run a tor hidden service :)
321 2011-03-11 05:37:18 <echelon> as a back-up at least
322 2011-03-11 05:40:04 <FellowTraveler> hi all'
323 2011-03-11 05:40:11 <mizerydearia> that won't make much of a difference anymore
324 2011-03-11 05:40:11 <echelon> hi
325 2011-03-11 05:40:30 <echelon> ya :/
326 2011-03-11 05:40:34 <mizerydearia> and also it will then make it less accessible to many people
327 2011-03-11 05:41:12 <noagendamarket> hiy
328 2011-03-11 05:45:53 <dirtyfilthy> someone needs to offer bulletproof hosting for bitcoin
329 2011-03-11 05:46:10 <jgarzik> dirtyfilthy: define bulletproof :)
330 2011-03-11 05:46:23 * jgarzik was thinking about selling private bitcoind nodes as a service
331 2011-03-11 05:46:38 Kiba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
332 2011-03-11 05:46:40 <dirtyfilthy> /ignore abuse@bulletproofhosting.com
333 2011-03-11 05:47:04 <dirtyfilthy> in some east european state
334 2011-03-11 05:47:21 <theymos> Maybe you can host the site at http://serioustubes.org/ :)
335 2011-03-11 05:48:07 <mizerydearia> what is the new exchange site that had established bank accounts?
336 2011-03-11 05:48:57 <mizerydearia> lawl, internet, serious business
337 2011-03-11 05:49:11 da2ce7 has joined
338 2011-03-11 05:49:44 <nanotube> ;;calc 550 sek in usd
339 2011-03-11 05:49:44 <gribble> 550 Swedish kronor = 86.0288 US dollars
340 2011-03-11 05:50:14 <mizerydearia> seems to be part of kopimi community
341 2011-03-11 05:50:32 <mizerydearia> mm, I should add kopimi icon at bottom of witcoin
342 2011-03-11 05:50:34 <da2ce7> ;;calc 100 aud in usd
343 2011-03-11 05:50:34 <gribble> 100 Australian dollars = 100.2600 US dollars
344 2011-03-11 05:50:40 <da2ce7> yay!
345 2011-03-11 05:51:19 <da2ce7> nanotube's gribble is going to obtain ai if we ain't carefull
346 2011-03-11 05:51:37 <nanotube> haha
347 2011-03-11 05:51:48 <da2ce7> ;;question what is the meaning of life?
348 2011-03-11 05:51:48 <gribble> Error: "question" is not a valid command.
349 2011-03-11 05:52:10 <nanotube> ;;eightball do you know the meaning of life?
350 2011-03-11 05:52:10 <gribble> No clue.
351 2011-03-11 05:52:12 <nanotube> heh
352 2011-03-11 05:52:13 <da2ce7> dang, nanotube... it hasn't evolved yet.
353 2011-03-11 05:52:36 <nanotube> ;;calc answer to life the universe and everything
354 2011-03-11 05:52:36 <gribble> answer to life the universe and everything = 42
355 2011-03-11 05:52:44 <nanotube> close enough? :)
356 2011-03-11 05:52:48 <da2ce7> :)
357 2011-03-11 05:53:21 <mizerydearia> btw, check out the video on front page @ http://thepiratebay.org/
358 2011-03-11 05:53:28 <AmpEater> Awesome
359 2011-03-11 05:53:38 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
360 2011-03-11 05:53:48 <da2ce7> maybe you can makes gribble analize everything that is posted on the forum, and answer from that.
361 2011-03-11 05:53:52 <da2ce7> *irc
362 2011-03-11 05:54:02 <da2ce7> som basic ia stuff
363 2011-03-11 05:54:42 * da2ce7 declares a bounty 10 BTC for basic gribble AI
364 2011-03-11 05:55:39 <da2ce7> reinstalling windows today...
365 2011-03-11 05:55:41 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
366 2011-03-11 05:55:43 <da2ce7> that is my project...
367 2011-03-11 05:56:02 <da2ce7> doing backup now... so slow... copying large ammount of data is so time consuming.
368 2011-03-11 05:56:41 * da2ce7 has a OCZ 120GB ssd
369 2011-03-11 05:57:09 <da2ce7> and a Hitachi 3TB hdd
370 2011-03-11 05:57:38 <da2ce7> replacing two old Segate 0.5TB in raid 0
371 2011-03-11 05:57:43 <retinal> a 3TB Hitachi just sounds like a recipe for disaster
372 2011-03-11 05:57:53 <theymos> Try using Teracopy.
373 2011-03-11 05:58:00 <nevezen> large amounts of data? pr0n right? :P
374 2011-03-11 05:58:16 <retinal> also, Western Digital bought out Hitachi's storage technology division a while back
375 2011-03-11 05:59:24 <da2ce7> hmm, the hdd that i got had good reviews... hmm I normaly go with samsung hdd's
376 2011-03-11 05:59:39 <nevezen> not a while back, recently
377 2011-03-11 05:59:54 <retinal> oh, well, my sense of time is horribly skewed
378 2011-03-11 06:00:30 <da2ce7> yeah, windows kinda dosn't like copying faster than 50MB/s
379 2011-03-11 06:00:31 <da2ce7> :(
380 2011-03-11 06:00:39 <retinal> all I've done for the past few days is roll around in bed with the flu .__.
381 2011-03-11 06:01:13 <retinal> da2ce7: that would make sense if you're copying a lot of small files
382 2011-03-11 06:01:29 <Diablo-D3> [12:49:18] <retinal> also, Western Digital bought out Hitachi's storage technology division a while back
383 2011-03-11 06:01:30 <Diablo-D3> welp
384 2011-03-11 06:01:34 <Diablo-D3> I cant recommend hitachis anymore
385 2011-03-11 06:01:47 jaminja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
386 2011-03-11 06:01:54 <da2ce7> WD sucks...
387 2011-03-11 06:01:56 <retinal> I only bought Hitachi 1TBs in the past
388 2011-03-11 06:02:00 <da2ce7> it is like the old maxtor.
389 2011-03-11 06:02:05 <theymos> I've been satisfied with my Western Digital drives. I've never had one fail yet.
390 2011-03-11 06:02:08 <da2ce7> well... not that bad...
391 2011-03-11 06:02:11 <Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered
392 2011-03-11 06:02:12 <Diablo-D3> well
393 2011-03-11 06:02:13 <Diablo-D3> were
394 2011-03-11 06:02:19 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
395 2011-03-11 06:02:25 <nevezen> yeah, I'm satisfied with WD's..
396 2011-03-11 06:02:26 <retinal> The 2TB Samsungs are quiet, cool, and provide decent throughput
397 2011-03-11 06:02:38 <retinal> but Western Digital: blue, green, black
398 2011-03-11 06:02:39 <retinal> wtf
399 2011-03-11 06:02:43 <nevezen> I bought a couple maxtor's a while back.. they failed utterly
400 2011-03-11 06:02:58 <da2ce7> the Hatachi ones look well made.
401 2011-03-11 06:03:05 <nevezen> I still have an 8 year old seagate that still works
402 2011-03-11 06:03:19 <Diablo-D3> I have a 2TB 5400rpm samsung in an ext enclosure
403 2011-03-11 06:03:23 <Diablo-D3> wouldnt trade it for anything
404 2011-03-11 06:03:41 <retinal> Seagate 7200.11 series as fubar'd; everything else should still be okay (and cheap)
405 2011-03-11 06:03:46 <nevezen> aren't hitachi's known to installed on most laptop/netbooks these days?
406 2011-03-11 06:03:47 <retinal> s/as/was
407 2011-03-11 06:03:54 <Aciid> 07:53 < Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered
408 2011-03-11 06:03:57 <Aciid> ...
409 2011-03-11 06:04:02 <Aciid> no
410 2011-03-11 06:04:05 <retinal> nevezen: yep
411 2011-03-11 06:04:11 <nevezen> I have a seagate 7200.11
412 2011-03-11 06:04:14 <da2ce7> I have got over 5 samsung over the years... not one falure... Have had 4 maxtor falures and 6 segate, and 2 WD
413 2011-03-11 06:04:27 <Diablo-D3> Aciid: yup.
414 2011-03-11 06:04:42 <Diablo-D3> hitachi gst == old ibm drive division
415 2011-03-11 06:04:59 <nevezen> I read somewhere that hitachi travelstars are the worst kinds..
416 2011-03-11 06:05:15 <da2ce7> nevezen, they were slow!
417 2011-03-11 06:05:22 AAA_awright has quit (Quit: Poof)
418 2011-03-11 06:05:28 <Diablo-D3> nevezen: nope.
419 2011-03-11 06:05:39 <da2ce7> but reliable
420 2011-03-11 06:05:44 <Diablo-D3> although I'd probably pick a samsung for a laptop due to lower power consumption
421 2011-03-11 06:05:55 andynor has joined
422 2011-03-11 06:06:02 <retinal> lower power consumption? might as well get an ssd
423 2011-03-11 06:06:07 <nevezen> still waiting for the price of ssd's to come down..
424 2011-03-11 06:06:10 <Diablo-D3> retinal: they didnt exist yet.
425 2011-03-11 06:06:15 * da2ce7 like the new segate XT that has 4gb flash on it... good lappy hdd.
426 2011-03-11 06:06:17 <nevezen> you can get a 60 gig for ~$100 now
427 2011-03-11 06:06:22 <Diablo-D3> and ssds arent really ready for primetime imo
428 2011-03-11 06:06:38 <nevezen> never understood those "hybrids" either..
429 2011-03-11 06:06:42 <retinal> Diablo-D3: I've used CompactFlash + adapter a while back
430 2011-03-11 06:06:48 <retinal> not pretty or fantastic
431 2011-03-11 06:06:50 <Diablo-D3> retinal: heh, thats cheating
432 2011-03-11 06:06:51 <retinal> but it got the job done
433 2011-03-11 06:06:54 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
434 2011-03-11 06:07:07 <retinal> now laptops can boot from SDHC
435 2011-03-11 06:07:08 <Diablo-D3> the original ssd, CF in an adapter.
436 2011-03-11 06:07:22 <Diablo-D3> and the adapter doesnt do anything
437 2011-03-11 06:07:23 <nevezen> has to be an acceptable class of sdhc though
438 2011-03-11 06:07:24 <Diablo-D3> its purely mechanical
439 2011-03-11 06:07:31 <nevezen> try booting off a class 2.. :)
440 2011-03-11 06:07:35 <Diablo-D3> CF are natively IDE.
441 2011-03-11 06:08:04 <retinal> nevezen: haha, tried that
442 2011-03-11 06:08:12 <Diablo-D3> I dont see the point of SD
443 2011-03-11 06:08:17 <retinal> 8GB microSDHC in an adapter
444 2011-03-11 06:08:19 <Diablo-D3> they're useless without a complex reader
445 2011-03-11 06:08:26 <Diablo-D3> I dont need a reader for CF
446 2011-03-11 06:08:32 <Diablo-D3> its native IDE
447 2011-03-11 06:08:47 <nevezen> I wanted to try using an SD/CF to SATA adapter
448 2011-03-11 06:08:59 <Diablo-D3> CF to SATA is easy
449 2011-03-11 06:09:08 <Diablo-D3> you use a generic IDE->SATA adapter
450 2011-03-11 06:09:15 <Diablo-D3> one that you use with any drive
451 2011-03-11 06:09:19 <da2ce7> hmm... I have given up on those fancy readers and just got a good CF to USB2
452 2011-03-11 06:09:20 <da2ce7> :(
453 2011-03-11 06:09:22 <nevezen> or rather, to miniPCIE
454 2011-03-11 06:09:24 <Diablo-D3> they even make CF adapters with the bridge on them now
455 2011-03-11 06:09:26 <retinal> but you won't get the power saving benefits
456 2011-03-11 06:09:33 <da2ce7> I'll wait till a good usb 3 one.
457 2011-03-11 06:09:36 <retinal> because that IDE->SATA chipset sips power
458 2011-03-11 06:09:38 <mizerydearia> What is the bitcoin client for mobile devices that allows paying with qr codes?
459 2011-03-11 06:09:57 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: but thats the thing... thats really just a IDE harddrive enclosure.
460 2011-03-11 06:10:02 <mizerydearia> or which client (even if not qr codes) is functional for mobile devices?
461 2011-03-11 06:10:03 <Diablo-D3> all. generic. common. shit.
462 2011-03-11 06:10:11 <Diablo-D3> retinal: and no, they use very little power
463 2011-03-11 06:10:30 <Diablo-D3> retinal: and you can also use CFast instead, which is natively SATA
464 2011-03-11 06:10:37 <Diablo-D3> but I dont think anyone is making the mechanical adapters for it yet
465 2011-03-11 06:10:42 <mizerydearia> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Clients
466 2011-03-11 06:11:05 <Diablo-D3> ahaha clients
467 2011-03-11 06:11:07 <Diablo-D3> like theres more than one
468 2011-03-11 06:12:26 <mizerydearia> ah, maybe it doesn't exist yet?
469 2011-03-11 06:12:34 <[Tycho]> "<Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered" - Diablo fails, just as usual :)
470 2011-03-11 06:12:39 <mizerydearia> I thought there was a way mobile users could send/receive bitcoin payments
471 2011-03-11 06:13:12 <retinal> mizerydearia: my memory is hazy on the subject, but there was a third party service that allows for web management
472 2011-03-11 06:13:21 <retinal> is that what you're referring to?
473 2011-03-11 06:13:32 <[Tycho]> "mybitcoin" ?
474 2011-03-11 06:13:41 <retinal> I don't think there's an application that runs everything natively on a mobile platform
475 2011-03-11 06:13:46 <genjix> MagicalTux: http://92.7.172.0/ <-- want to donate a vps so i can set that up? :)
476 2011-03-11 06:13:49 Bosma has joined
477 2011-03-11 06:14:31 <mizerydearia> I am not entirely sure what I'm referring to.
478 2011-03-11 06:14:38 <mizerydearia> I could be imagining things
479 2011-03-11 06:14:48 <mizerydearia> btw, does anyone have any brains I may snack on? I'm a zombie.
480 2011-03-11 06:14:51 <Aciid> mizerydearia: wait, are you running witcoin from some webhost
481 2011-03-11 06:14:58 <Aciid> regarding to the TOS post
482 2011-03-11 06:14:59 <mizerydearia> Aciid, no, vps
483 2011-03-11 06:15:03 <mizerydearia> linode.com
484 2011-03-11 06:15:36 <Aciid> hmm
485 2011-03-11 06:15:45 <Aciid> why would they care, or did you ask?
486 2011-03-11 06:16:02 <Aciid> express it in your TOS that the content is solely written by submitter
487 2011-03-11 06:16:11 BitterTea has joined
488 2011-03-11 06:16:15 <Aciid> like tb-dev trackers do
489 2011-03-11 06:17:56 <Aciid> mizerydearia: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G14bBqfq
490 2011-03-11 06:18:32 <mizerydearia> That won't help.
491 2011-03-11 06:18:40 <Aciid> bad ISP
492 2011-03-11 06:18:48 <Aciid> change to some network which wont care
493 2011-03-11 06:18:54 <Aciid> or fight
494 2011-03-11 06:19:08 <Diablo-D3> [01:03:37] <[Tycho]> "<Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered" - Diablo fails, just as usual :)
495 2011-03-11 06:19:14 <Aciid> http://www.nforce.nl/product/14
496 2011-03-11 06:19:19 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: well, if WD bought them out, no, they arent anymore.
497 2011-03-11 06:19:25 <Aciid> nforce hosts shitloads of topsites
498 2011-03-11 06:19:38 <Diablo-D3> linode lol
499 2011-03-11 06:19:43 <Diablo-D3> rapidxen > linode
500 2011-03-11 06:19:47 <mizerydearia> because http://www.linode.com/tos.cfm Transmission, distribution, or storage of any information, data or material in violation of United States or state regulation or law, or by the common law, is prohibited
501 2011-03-11 06:19:53 <Aciid> http://www.lowendbox.com/
502 2011-03-11 06:19:59 <BitterTea> Does anyone else just suck at designing interfaces? Really, don't we all? Some just suck a little less.
503 2011-03-11 06:20:04 <mizerydearia> I need to worry about performance issues
504 2011-03-11 06:20:08 <Diablo-D3> I dont like lowendbox
505 2011-03-11 06:20:12 <Diablo-D3> they post too many shitty deals
506 2011-03-11 06:20:16 <BitterTea> *user interfaces, that is
507 2011-03-11 06:20:17 <Diablo-D3> like, who the fuck cares about openvz shit
508 2011-03-11 06:20:20 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, don't you remember Deathstar series ?
509 2011-03-11 06:20:23 <Diablo-D3> they need to kill that shit
510 2011-03-11 06:20:33 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: yes, and I also remember it was 100% media attack
511 2011-03-11 06:20:39 <Aciid> Diablo-D3: you read the comments not the reviews
512 2011-03-11 06:20:47 <Aciid> reviews = shit
513 2011-03-11 06:21:09 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: it was the first time a drive series sold so well from any manuf
514 2011-03-11 06:21:16 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, so you don't know that there was a real problem ?
515 2011-03-11 06:21:29 Spenvo has joined
516 2011-03-11 06:21:30 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the total numbers of drive failures were higher because the sales were higher
517 2011-03-11 06:21:41 AAA_awright has joined
518 2011-03-11 06:21:42 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the percentage of failure was not higher than normal
519 2011-03-11 06:21:50 <Diablo-D3> the media failed at basic high school math.
520 2011-03-11 06:21:57 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, well, do you know, what was this failure exactly ?
521 2011-03-11 06:22:06 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: instant drive death after clicking
522 2011-03-11 06:22:25 <Diablo-D3> but the REAL failure was the owners
523 2011-03-11 06:22:27 <[Tycho]> I'm talking about the cause of this.
524 2011-03-11 06:22:40 <Diablo-D3> they kept sending in drives that were perfectly okay
525 2011-03-11 06:22:54 <Diablo-D3> and IBM kept sending them their drives back with notes saying the drive checked out fine
526 2011-03-11 06:23:09 <Diablo-D3> and people freaked out and blamed IBM for bad customer service
527 2011-03-11 06:23:14 <Diablo-D3> becuase... they sent back... a working drive.
528 2011-03-11 06:23:19 <[Tycho]> Of course they should send a drive that is going to die.
529 2011-03-11 06:23:29 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: going to? nope.
530 2011-03-11 06:23:32 <[Tycho]> Why ?
531 2011-03-11 06:23:41 <Diablo-D3> like I said, the failure rate of that series was not higher than normal
532 2011-03-11 06:23:53 <da2ce7> fucking windows and the 255 character file address limit!
533 2011-03-11 06:23:58 <[Tycho]> Ok. Do you know what was causing this failure ?
534 2011-03-11 06:24:04 <da2ce7> what are we... in the the year 2000?
535 2011-03-11 06:25:19 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: 75GXPs apparently may have had broken wear leveling
536 2011-03-11 06:25:27 <Diablo-D3> or something wrong with the head positioning geometry
537 2011-03-11 06:25:45 <Diablo-D3> they non-fatally headcrashed for awhile before it just trashed the drive
538 2011-03-11 06:26:17 <bonsaikitten> yeah, the klick of death must have been our imagina*FEEP CLACK*
539 2011-03-11 06:26:23 <bonsaikitten> *FEEP CLACK*
540 2011-03-11 06:26:29 <bonsaikitten> *EEEK FEEP CLACK*
541 2011-03-11 06:26:29 <Diablo-D3> there were other issues with the drive too
542 2011-03-11 06:27:01 <Diablo-D3> the controller board design was screwy and didnt work right with their design
543 2011-03-11 06:27:09 <[Tycho]> AFAIR the problem was in detoriating needle-to-pcb contact used for the first thime instead of usual flexible cable for connecting the internal space to the logic board.
544 2011-03-11 06:27:30 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the GMR heads? there were failures with that too
545 2011-03-11 06:27:49 <bonsaikitten> not as bad as certain samsung models
546 2011-03-11 06:27:51 <Diablo-D3> but the heads were physically crashing, so you cant really point to that
547 2011-03-11 06:28:03 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: whats really nuts is IBM never sued the media
548 2011-03-11 06:28:13 <Diablo-D3> they just quietly sold the division to Hitachi
549 2011-03-11 06:28:30 <Diablo-D3> back when this happened, I remember media saying shit like 50% failure rate
550 2011-03-11 06:28:31 <Diablo-D3> nope
551 2011-03-11 06:29:22 <Diablo-D3> it wasnt even close to that
552 2011-03-11 06:29:29 <[Tycho]> "The Deskstar documentation was updated to show that the drives had been rated to 333 power-on hours per month (45 percent)" - wow, a drive that was not supposed to run :)
553 2011-03-11 06:29:44 <Diablo-D3> a consumer drive?
554 2011-03-11 06:29:46 <Diablo-D3> sure.
555 2011-03-11 06:30:48 <Diablo-D3> IBM paid out their ass for the unfailure too
556 2011-03-11 06:32:23 * da2ce7 likes the verfiy function of teracopy.
557 2011-03-11 06:33:41 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and notice they only attacked IBM
558 2011-03-11 06:33:44 <Diablo-D3> look at all the shit Maxtor did
559 2011-03-11 06:33:49 <Diablo-D3> EVERY MAXTOR DRIVE EVER DIED EARLY
560 2011-03-11 06:33:55 <Diablo-D3> EVERY SINGLE ONE
561 2011-03-11 06:34:05 <[Tycho]> Not every.
562 2011-03-11 06:34:06 <Diablo-D3> no media coverage there
563 2011-03-11 06:34:10 <Diablo-D3> no class action suit there
564 2011-03-11 06:34:14 <[Tycho]> I still have running Maxtors.
565 2011-03-11 06:34:36 <Diablo-D3> its like watching what the media did to Toyota
566 2011-03-11 06:34:48 <Diablo-D3> they ended up being cleared of all wrong doing, theres nothing wrong with the cars
567 2011-03-11 06:34:56 <Diablo-D3> yet the media didnt cover THAT part
568 2011-03-11 06:35:17 <Diablo-D3> but Ford goes and recalls a few million vehicles, and the media doesnt say shit
569 2011-03-11 06:36:43 <Diablo-D3> you know why they attacked Toyota/
570 2011-03-11 06:36:47 <Diablo-D3> because its a "foreign" company
571 2011-03-11 06:37:10 <Diablo-D3> even though Toyota makes more cars in the US than any other company, and they sell more of these US made cars to US customers than any other company
572 2011-03-11 06:37:39 <Diablo-D3> unlike all the foreign made trash Ford, GM, and Chrysler push on people
573 2011-03-11 06:37:52 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if the media got confused and thought IBM was foreign
574 2011-03-11 06:38:02 <Diablo-D3> because the whole thing didnt make sense
575 2011-03-11 06:38:11 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and you know what else?
576 2011-03-11 06:38:21 <Diablo-D3> theres been gigantic drive failures since then
577 2011-03-11 06:38:26 <Diablo-D3> and the media stays quiet
578 2011-03-11 06:38:43 <Diablo-D3> like, WD Green drives have abnormally high failure rates due to the obsessive head parking
579 2011-03-11 06:38:48 <[Tycho]> I know about some HDDs with design flaws.
580 2011-03-11 06:38:50 <Diablo-D3> far worse than the 75GPX problem
581 2011-03-11 06:38:55 <Diablo-D3> and no one says shit about it
582 2011-03-11 06:39:39 Bosma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
583 2011-03-11 06:40:18 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
584 2011-03-11 06:54:26 <mizerydearia> Magnitude 8.8 earthquake hits Japan, epicenter 373km (281 miles) from Tokyo: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html
585 2011-03-11 06:59:20 <[Tycho]> Looks like Bitcoin's IRC is overloaded :) IRC ERROR :Closing Link: 66.197.153.197 (Sorry, server is full - try later)
586 2011-03-11 07:02:13 <genjix> this channel is hardly full
587 2011-03-11 07:02:32 <jrabbit> genjix: its on a different network
588 2011-03-11 07:03:05 <genjix> ohhh lfnet
589 2011-03-11 07:03:14 * genjix pokes MagicalTux
590 2011-03-11 07:03:24 <genjix> did you see http://92.7.172.0 ?
591 2011-03-11 07:03:48 <[Tycho]> What would this site do ?
592 2011-03-11 07:04:04 <genjix> MagicalTux: wanna give me a vps for it? :p
593 2011-03-11 07:04:16 <genjix> [Tycho]: bitcoin exchange... the source code is free
594 2011-03-11 07:04:27 <genjix> http://gitorious.org/intersango/master/trees/master
595 2011-03-11 07:06:15 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: (re IRC overload) yeah, that is one of the reasons why I wanted to get started with DNS seeding
596 2011-03-11 07:13:53 <[Tycho]> Would be funny to implement HTTP 402 code :)
597 2011-03-11 07:27:07 <genjix> omg
598 2011-03-11 07:27:16 <genjix> 9 richter in japan for earthquakes!
599 2011-03-11 07:27:42 <genjix> that's enormous
600 2011-03-11 07:27:55 <genjix> biggest one ever recorded was 10 i think
601 2011-03-11 07:30:16 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
602 2011-03-11 07:33:50 <Spenvo> anyone know who manages the biddingpond?
603 2011-03-11 07:34:24 <[Tycho]> Looks serious. http://img.lenta.ru/news/2011/03/11/quake/picture.jpg
604 2011-03-11 07:35:30 <genjix> no wonder MagicalTux wasn't answering... he lives in japan -_-
605 2011-03-11 07:36:22 nathan7 has joined
606 2011-03-11 07:46:58 <Spenvo> damn, that's a big quake
607 2011-03-11 07:49:02 <Diablo-D3> genjix: erm, you do realize how the richter scale works, right?
608 2011-03-11 07:49:39 <Diablo-D3> seizmologists joke a 10 would split the earth in two.
609 2011-03-11 07:49:57 <Diablo-D3> 10 is 6 times more powerful than 9, 9 is 6 times more powerful than 8.
610 2011-03-11 07:51:29 <genjix> it's a logarithmic scale
611 2011-03-11 07:51:37 <Diablo-D3> yes
612 2011-03-11 07:52:13 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
613 2011-03-11 07:52:32 brunner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
614 2011-03-11 07:53:31 u2time has joined
615 2011-03-11 07:53:44 <genjix> 9 richter is fucking huge
616 2011-03-11 07:55:21 <genjix> oh i see what you've done. you seen the energy released on wikipedia and compared the magnitudes of 9 and 10
617 2011-03-11 07:55:27 brunner has joined
618 2011-03-11 07:56:19 <Diablo-D3> no, I explained to him how logarithmic shit works
619 2011-03-11 07:56:23 dirtyfilthy has joined
620 2011-03-11 07:56:24 <Diablo-D3> it goes from oh crap
621 2011-03-11 07:56:26 <Diablo-D3> to OH CRAP
622 2011-03-11 07:56:27 <Diablo-D3> to
623 2011-03-11 07:56:31 <Diablo-D3> irc needs 72 point fonts
624 2011-03-11 07:56:35 <Diablo-D3> and then it gets worse from there
625 2011-03-11 07:56:39 <genjix> did not know that
626 2011-03-11 07:57:02 <genjix> i meant i know it was logarithmic, but didn't know the scale was so whack
627 2011-03-11 07:57:06 <genjix> "Thus, a difference in magnitude of 1.0 is equivalent to a factor of 31.6"
628 2011-03-11 07:57:23 <Diablo-D3> erm
629 2011-03-11 07:57:25 <Diablo-D3> that sounds wrong
630 2011-03-11 07:57:27 <genjix> what kind of shit scale is that :p
631 2011-03-11 07:57:29 <Diablo-D3> its supposed to be 6
632 2011-03-11 07:57:58 <Diablo-D3> =|
633 2011-03-11 07:58:03 <Diablo-D3> make up your fucking mind wikipedia
634 2011-03-11 07:58:27 <Diablo-D3> So, for example, an earthquake that measures 5.0 on the Richter scale has a shaking amplitude 10 times larger than one that measures 4.0.
635 2011-03-11 07:58:46 <cosurgi> what are those unconfirmed transactions on http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ ?
636 2011-03-11 07:58:50 <genjix> i think that an earthquake is a transverse wave, so the sqrt comes from the energy equation for SH-motion
637 2011-03-11 07:59:05 <genjix> but not sure where that ^3 comes from
638 2011-03-11 08:00:12 <Diablo-D3> fGFvzdghshsdzg
639 2011-03-11 08:00:41 <Diablo-D3> see the graph at the bottom of that wikipedia page
640 2011-03-11 08:00:44 <Diablo-D3> er
641 2011-03-11 08:00:45 <Diablo-D3> table
642 2011-03-11 08:00:50 <Diablo-D3> 32.0 on the fuck you scale
643 2011-03-11 08:01:31 <genjix> lmao
644 2011-03-11 08:01:38 <genjix> "Epic earthquake"
645 2011-03-11 08:03:09 CyanDynamo has joined
646 2011-03-11 08:06:26 Zarutian has joined
647 2011-03-11 08:12:32 <genjix> incredible, http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/315086870
648 2011-03-11 08:12:42 <genjix> so we can take down videos from youtube.
649 2011-03-11 08:22:28 agorist has quit ()
650 2011-03-11 08:23:37 <MagicalTux> genjix, it's still moving
651 2011-03-11 08:23:39 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
652 2011-03-11 08:23:43 <MagicalTux> I'm back in the office, but all the stuff is moving
653 2011-03-11 08:24:16 Xunie has joined
654 2011-03-11 08:29:08 <genjix> MagicalTux: are you ok dude? there's the big earthquake hapening
655 2011-03-11 08:31:59 <MagicalTux> genjix, still moves
656 2011-03-11 08:32:04 <MagicalTux> I'm finishing stuff here and I'll be heading home
657 2011-03-11 08:32:27 <genjix> ahh :p
658 2011-03-11 08:39:26 <genjix> be safe
659 2011-03-11 08:40:10 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux is japanese?
660 2011-03-11 08:42:00 <genjix> nah he lives there tho
661 2011-03-11 08:44:15 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
662 2011-03-11 08:45:38 <MagicalTux> my real name is not Satoshi
663 2011-03-11 08:53:25 <genjix> yep you only use that for your bitcoin commits
664 2011-03-11 08:54:53 <BlueMatt> :O
665 2011-03-11 08:55:01 <mizerydearia> da2ce7, Can yuo tell us anything aboout the earthquake and if Australia is in danger?
666 2011-03-11 08:55:22 <da2ce7> no issue... they say that the waves will be small
667 2011-03-11 08:55:41 <BlueMatt> mizerydearia: read the news...
668 2011-03-11 08:55:48 <genjix> see this insane video, http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/sot.tsunami.hit.japan.cnn?hpt=T1
669 2011-03-11 08:55:49 <mizerydearia> where at?
670 2011-03-11 08:56:01 <genjix> tsunami on fire
671 2011-03-11 08:56:39 echelon has joined
672 2011-03-11 08:56:50 <BlueMatt> mizerydearia: I dont know news.yahoo.com news.google.com?
673 2011-03-11 08:56:52 Bth8 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
674 2011-03-11 08:57:09 <genjix> or /. ? http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/11/0722228/88-Earthquake-Near-Japanese-Coast
675 2011-03-11 08:57:24 <mizerydearia> any video footage?
676 2011-03-11 08:57:24 <genjix> and 4chan http://boards.4chan.org/b/
677 2011-03-11 08:57:25 <BlueMatt> dont think that is a full story...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_japan_earthquake_pacific;_ylt=AkxruthPmyl3ZZWxTw9Q1jKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNqdDQwMm52BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMzExL2FzX2phcGFuX2VhcnRocXVha2UEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwM2BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawN0c3VuYW1pY2VudGU-
678 2011-03-11 08:57:32 <BlueMatt> "HONOLULU â A tsunami warning issued by the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii after a large earthquake in Japan was widened beyond East Asia late Thursday to include Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and Central and South America and the rest of the Pacific Ocean."
679 2011-03-11 08:57:37 <BlueMatt> so, yes australia too
680 2011-03-11 08:57:40 <mizerydearia> live video footage?
681 2011-03-11 08:58:18 <mizerydearia> http://i.imgur.com/r9eNJ.jpg
682 2011-03-11 08:58:21 <genjix> mizerydearia: check my 1st link
683 2011-03-11 08:58:36 <mizerydearia> /. ?
684 2011-03-11 08:59:04 <genjix> no
685 2011-03-11 08:59:10 <mizerydearia> http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
686 2011-03-11 08:59:11 <genjix> see this insane video, http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/sot.tsunami.hit.japan.cnn?hpt=T1
687 2011-03-11 08:59:14 <genjix> 08:46 < mizerydearia> where at?
688 2011-03-11 08:59:17 <genjix> 08:47 < genjix> tsunami on fire
689 2011-03-11 09:01:30 <mizerydearia> tsunami warning for 53 different countries around pacific rim
690 2011-03-11 09:01:41 <genjix> MagicalTux: go surfing!
691 2011-03-11 09:03:07 <genjix> http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1299833604518.jpg
692 2011-03-11 09:03:08 <genjix> haha
693 2011-03-11 09:03:41 <jgarzik> I don't doubt there's a tsunami warning, with 8.9 quake...
694 2011-03-11 09:03:46 <[Tycho]> http://www.jiji.com/jc/d4?d=d4_topics&p=eqa200-jlp10575297
695 2011-03-11 09:04:13 <mizerydearia> http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/46105484297646080
696 2011-03-11 09:05:48 <mizerydearia> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/foxtokimekitonight live japanese tv of what's going on
697 2011-03-11 09:07:29 <mizerydearia> wow
698 2011-03-11 09:07:55 <mizerydearia> video footage of inside buildings internally collapsing
699 2011-03-11 09:09:46 <BlueMatt> yea 8.9 is pretty huge
700 2011-03-11 09:09:55 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
701 2011-03-11 09:10:05 <Diablo-D3> yeah Japan is now missing.
702 2011-03-11 09:11:39 FellowTraveler has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
703 2011-03-11 09:14:08 doublec has joined
704 2011-03-11 09:17:38 <genjix> http://boards.4chan.org/b/
705 2011-03-11 09:17:46 <genjix> it's all over 4chan :p weird
706 2011-03-11 09:18:43 <mizerydearia> btw, here is timeline http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2011/03/11/lhvpd9/01/ttvulhvpd9-01.jpg
707 2011-03-11 09:21:59 <jrabbit> genjix: its not weird
708 2011-03-11 09:22:37 <genjix> jrabbit: yeah it is. how many times on /b/ you see 4 threads on 1 topic dominating the front page?
709 2011-03-11 09:22:38 <jrabbit> its how the multiperson organism keeps its actors
710 2011-03-11 09:23:20 <mizerydearia> btw, how many hours ago was the earthquake?
711 2011-03-11 09:24:14 <mizerydearia> 1hr?
712 2011-03-11 09:24:58 <genjix> http://inspirescience.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/carl_sagan2.jpg
713 2011-03-11 09:25:21 <genjix> lol google has a warning on their front page
714 2011-03-11 09:26:00 <[Tycho]> No.
715 2011-03-11 09:28:43 <Diablo-D3> like 3hr ago
716 2011-03-11 09:31:22 <BlueMatt> nice google
717 2011-03-11 09:31:48 <genjix> someone's offering me a free amazon EC2 vps
718 2011-03-11 09:31:55 <genjix> but amazon shutdown wikileaks
719 2011-03-11 09:31:59 <BlueMatt> so give it to me
720 2011-03-11 09:32:01 <genjix> boycott or accept?
721 2011-03-11 09:32:20 <genjix> nah it's for a project i've made :p
722 2011-03-11 09:32:36 <BlueMatt> Unless it is as illigal as wikileaks, id take it
723 2011-03-11 09:32:54 <genjix> nah I'm going to boycott them.
724 2011-03-11 09:33:11 <genjix> paypal/ebay/amazon/visa <- stay away from that shit.
725 2011-03-11 09:35:32 <mizerydearia> I would agree. boycott
726 2011-03-11 09:35:41 <mizerydearia> Don't accept evil
727 2011-03-11 09:36:21 <mizerydearia> which reminds me... many years ago during an interview, Anton Szander Lavey pointed out that evil is live backwards
728 2011-03-11 09:37:10 <BlueMatt> I dont think amazon is so evil, keep in mind they received a letter from people in congress that said wikileaks is evil etc
729 2011-03-11 09:37:46 <genjix> DRM
730 2011-03-11 09:37:54 <genjix> deleting books off people's kindles
731 2011-03-11 09:37:56 <genjix> FUCK THEM
732 2011-03-11 09:38:00 * mizerydearia agrees
733 2011-03-11 09:38:06 <BlueMatt> ok that was a bad move
734 2011-03-11 09:38:24 <mizerydearia> it's not a game
735 2011-03-11 09:38:37 <mizerydearia> clearly they are evil and will only aim to convince you that they are not
736 2011-03-11 09:38:51 <BlueMatt> so, in that case who is not evil?
737 2011-03-11 09:39:01 <mizerydearia> I think they have enough computing resources to have the best aimbot
738 2011-03-11 09:39:03 <genjix> me
739 2011-03-11 09:39:07 <genjix> freenode
740 2011-03-11 09:39:09 <mizerydearia> Satoshi isn't evil
741 2011-03-11 09:39:10 <genjix> canonical
742 2011-03-11 09:39:18 <mizerydearia> gavin isn't evil
743 2011-03-11 09:39:29 <mizerydearia> I don't think Linus Torvalds is evil
744 2011-03-11 09:39:43 <mizerydearia> EFF isn't evil
745 2011-03-11 09:39:54 <mizerydearia> theymos definitely isn't evil
746 2011-03-11 09:39:59 <genjix> some of the bitcoin people are evil though
747 2011-03-11 09:40:03 <mizerydearia> some, yes
748 2011-03-11 09:40:05 <mizerydearia> like me
749 2011-03-11 09:40:08 * mizerydearia laughs diabolically
750 2011-03-11 09:40:15 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4246.0
751 2011-03-11 09:40:17 <mizerydearia> create a witcoin account NAO or I will throw bitcoins at you!
752 2011-03-11 09:40:20 <BlueMatt> in your definitions canonical is definatley evil
753 2011-03-11 09:40:46 <genjix> they seem pretty cool
754 2011-03-11 09:41:41 <mizerydearia> "What can't wasn't really designed to live in the first place." this statement has evil influence
755 2011-03-11 09:41:58 <BlueMatt> except for landscape and the whole gnome stuff
756 2011-03-11 09:42:26 <genjix> he's saying humans are selfish bastards and the less fortunate are meant to suffer (and we should let them)
757 2011-03-11 09:42:57 <genjix> which is ofc ridiculous... but i suppose bitcoin attracts all sorts
758 2011-03-11 09:43:19 <mizerydearia> I would imagine so http://warp.povusers.org/SortComparison/
759 2011-03-11 09:44:02 <mizerydearia> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8g-iYGHpEA
760 2011-03-11 09:46:10 <mizerydearia> The Tokyo 'quake is now believed to be the 5th-largest in recorded history.
761 2011-03-11 09:47:20 <genjix> w00t
762 2011-03-11 09:47:31 <BlueMatt> I dont think thats a good thing
763 2011-03-11 09:47:58 <genjix> clapclap
764 2011-03-11 09:48:30 TheAncientGoat has joined
765 2011-03-11 09:49:14 <mizerydearia> I am confused about something...
766 2011-03-11 09:49:24 <mizerydearia> yen value dropped after earthquake
767 2011-03-11 09:49:45 <mizerydearia> in what way does the currency have affect from regional events?
768 2011-03-11 09:50:04 <mizerydearia> or, more importantly, what kind of natural disaster impacts would affect the value of bitcoin?
769 2011-03-11 09:50:45 <[Tycho]> Internet failure.
770 2011-03-11 09:51:12 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin economy is way too small to effected by pretty much anything which effects normal currencies
771 2011-03-11 09:51:17 <BlueMatt> but yea, internet failure would do it
772 2011-03-11 09:52:21 <genjix> bitcoin is secure
773 2011-03-11 09:52:26 <genjix> - high bus factor
774 2011-03-11 09:52:38 <genjix> - high mining difficulty from many miners
775 2011-03-11 09:52:50 <edcba> bus factor ?
776 2011-03-11 09:52:52 <edcba> what is that ?
777 2011-03-11 09:53:24 <genjix> well 1 year ago when bitcoin was unknown and it was just satoshi
778 2011-03-11 09:53:42 <genjix> the bus factor was 1 person (if a bus run over satoshi then the project would die)
779 2011-03-11 09:54:16 <genjix> now there's > a dozen devs who know bitcoin and would work on it if say gavin got run over by a bus
780 2011-03-11 09:54:55 Strom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
781 2011-03-11 09:55:05 <genjix> so it's cool because bitcoin got over those 2 bumps (dev bootstrapping & mining monopolisation by a gpu miner)
782 2011-03-11 09:55:05 Strom has joined
783 2011-03-11 09:55:15 <genjix> luck?
784 2011-03-11 09:56:21 <Aciid> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4355.msg63882#msg63882
785 2011-03-11 09:56:23 <Aciid> hahahhahaha
786 2011-03-11 10:02:58 <mizerydearia> high bus factor? is that opposite of short bus factor?
787 2011-03-11 10:03:52 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
788 2011-03-11 10:04:01 <[Tycho]> Wide bus ?
789 2011-03-11 10:09:49 <d4de> There is also another factor, which is legislators prohibiting the use of bitcoins as it facilitates money laundering, that would totally crush the market, as more and more people will be arrested, and bitcoin users and devs will be forced to go underground
790 2011-03-11 10:11:26 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
791 2011-03-11 10:16:00 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
792 2011-03-11 10:17:43 * da2ce7 finds it amazing how data just accumulates.... 80GB here, 50GB there, 100GB overthere... it all adds up
793 2011-03-11 10:19:30 <Aciid> [Tycho]: ETA for new statistics?
794 2011-03-11 10:19:38 <Aciid> features
795 2011-03-11 10:19:44 xelister has joined
796 2011-03-11 10:19:48 <xelister> hi
797 2011-03-11 10:19:56 <Aciid> hioo
798 2011-03-11 10:19:59 <xelister> so earthquake, huh
799 2011-03-11 10:20:17 <Aciid> yeah
800 2011-03-11 10:20:19 <xelister> am I complete ass for wondering how this affects current diff? Anyone monitors recent changes in estimated totall hashpower?
801 2011-03-11 10:20:28 <[Tycho]> Aciid, which ones exactly ?
802 2011-03-11 10:20:50 <Aciid> [Tycho]: didn't you said , you'd work with statistics more a few days ago?
803 2011-03-11 10:21:16 <[Tycho]> Do you see any changes on worker page ?
804 2011-03-11 10:22:03 <Aciid> [Tycho]: oh great
805 2011-03-11 10:22:10 <[Tycho]> I think that i'll deploy them at the same time as new miner. May be today.
806 2011-03-11 10:25:43 ArtForz has joined
807 2011-03-11 10:29:31 Spenvo is now known as charityme
808 2011-03-11 10:31:13 charityme is now known as Spenvo
809 2011-03-11 10:31:50 doublec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
810 2011-03-11 10:36:01 <lfm> a graph of recent changes in estimated totall hashpower day by day going back to the start of bitcoin at http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
811 2011-03-11 10:36:27 TD has joined
812 2011-03-11 10:36:48 <sipa> lfm: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
813 2011-03-11 10:37:11 <sipa> there it's visible as well
814 2011-03-11 10:37:32 <lfm> thr drop off the last couple days? ya
815 2011-03-11 10:38:36 <Aciid> falling on our asses
816 2011-03-11 10:38:49 <lfm> minor correction
817 2011-03-11 10:38:52 <sipa> it's just MM who left :)
818 2011-03-11 10:39:01 <lfm> you sure?
819 2011-03-11 10:39:06 <sipa> quite
820 2011-03-11 10:39:14 <Aciid> y
821 2011-03-11 10:39:17 <lfm> maybe some other(s) too
822 2011-03-11 10:41:44 Blitzboom has joined
823 2011-03-11 10:41:44 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
824 2011-03-11 10:41:44 Blitzboom has joined
825 2011-03-11 10:41:49 <Spenvo> there's a post about it http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4355.0
826 2011-03-11 10:42:16 <TD> he actually did match the network didn't he
827 2011-03-11 10:42:23 <TD> or she
828 2011-03-11 10:42:29 Jeroenz0r has joined
829 2011-03-11 10:42:29 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
830 2011-03-11 10:42:29 Jeroenz0r has joined
831 2011-03-11 10:42:34 <TD> i wonder if this guy was trying to reverse a transaction
832 2011-03-11 10:42:48 <TD> that'd fit the "match 50% of the network for a while, go away again" profile
833 2011-03-11 10:42:53 <sipa> i think he did have 50% of the network at a certain point
834 2011-03-11 10:42:56 <sipa> but not for long
835 2011-03-11 10:43:21 Jeroenz0r has quit (Client Quit)
836 2011-03-11 10:43:35 Jeroenz0r has joined
837 2011-03-11 10:43:35 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
838 2011-03-11 10:43:36 Jeroenz0r has joined
839 2011-03-11 10:45:51 <Spenvo> yikes
840 2011-03-11 10:47:59 <Spenvo> if someone has enough resources and determination, it could happen--and part of me thinks its inevitable
841 2011-03-11 10:48:05 <TD> if he successfully reversed a transaction would anyone notice?
842 2011-03-11 10:48:18 <TD> Spenvo: yeah it is. i was thinking a few weeks ago we'd probably see a botnet reverse a transaction some time in 2011
843 2011-03-11 10:48:32 <TD> bitcoin is very attractive to elements of the criminal underground who need hard electronic money
844 2011-03-11 10:48:44 <TD> so it's inevitable that disputes between these people might result in a network attack
845 2011-03-11 10:49:20 <Spenvo> very true, as evidenced by their attacks on banking systems
846 2011-03-11 10:49:29 <lfm> I dont think he had a mojority long enuf to reverse 6 blocks (a confirmed txn)
847 2011-03-11 10:50:02 <Spenvo> but he could have
848 2011-03-11 10:50:46 <Spenvo> TD: was that point brought up by your colleagues?
849 2011-03-11 10:51:05 <TD> somebody did mention botnets yes. it's a common thing to think about.
850 2011-03-11 10:51:06 <lfm> well I dont see the evidence if he did. a plot of block discovery rates isnt enuf evidence for me
851 2011-03-11 10:51:25 <TD> i think the block explorer will flag it if somebody reverses 6 blocks
852 2011-03-11 10:51:32 <TD> i vaguely recall theymos saying that
853 2011-03-11 10:52:21 <Spenvo> right, i have thought of it too, the current processing power is equivalent to less than half of the world's fastest supercomputer
854 2011-03-11 10:52:23 <lfm> it nay not be visible to all nodes. any specific node such as the block explorer may never see a reversal happen
855 2011-03-11 10:52:48 <Spenvo> td: a sophisticated and well timed attack could take down block explorer
856 2011-03-11 10:52:49 <xelister> any change in totall hash power recently?
857 2011-03-11 10:53:00 <TD> probably not the bitcoin node it's running off though
858 2011-03-11 10:53:03 <xelister> oh, http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
859 2011-03-11 10:53:11 <TD> Spenvo: well it depends how you define "supercomputer"
860 2011-03-11 10:53:28 <lfm> total hash power ESTIMATES do show a suspicious pattern
861 2011-03-11 10:53:32 <Aciid> Spenvo: no need of a supercomputer...
862 2011-03-11 10:53:38 <TD> but i made the point that even though the bitcoin network is tiny today, you'd already need a 500,000 machine botnet to have any hope of attacking it
863 2011-03-11 10:53:48 <TD> and that number is going up all the time as new people get involved
864 2011-03-11 10:53:56 <Aciid> yea
865 2011-03-11 10:54:07 <TD> assuming growth rate continues to be good by EOY2011 there won't be any botnets that can do cpu based attacks on the network
866 2011-03-11 10:54:18 <Aciid> to control a 500,000 user botnet.. its not quite easy to do accurate timings
867 2011-03-11 10:54:30 <Aciid> even IRC struggles when you try to control ~100-500
868 2011-03-11 10:54:35 <lfm> td botnets could use gpus too
869 2011-03-11 10:54:36 <TD> you'd have to ship code to the bots that understands how to do different sorts of gpu miners, handles buggy drivers, avoids being noticed when fans spin up etc. it'd be a pita.
870 2011-03-11 10:54:42 <TD> with difficulty
871 2011-03-11 10:54:56 <Aciid> TD: most botnets are servers
872 2011-03-11 10:54:59 <Spenvo> good points
873 2011-03-11 10:55:02 <sipa> but you'd only need a few thousand instead of hundreds of thousands
874 2011-03-11 10:55:02 <Aciid> PHP exploits
875 2011-03-11 10:55:20 <TD> yes hacked servers don't have any possibility to do gpu mining. and desktops, well, it'd be a huge effort.
876 2011-03-11 10:55:23 <lfm> td they might not care if a bunch of em lock up
877 2011-03-11 10:55:26 jaminja has joined
878 2011-03-11 10:55:56 <TD> lfm: most pay-per-install guys do care because they don't want their dropper to be cleaned up by the owner
879 2011-03-11 10:56:10 <TD> botnets try to be stealthy for as long as possible these days
880 2011-03-11 10:56:29 <Spenvo> td: and before eoy2011, if a botnet does attack, and it's clear that's what's happened, would that not stunt growth?
881 2011-03-11 10:56:54 <TD> possibly
882 2011-03-11 10:56:58 <lfm> locking up a windows machine isnt always evidence of infection, windows locks up if you look at it sideways
883 2011-03-11 10:57:15 <Aciid> botnets =! wormnets , botnet = easily detectable , easily blocked main communication channels , wormnets = hard to detect, hard to prevent communication because of encryped schema
884 2011-03-11 10:57:38 <Aciid> lfm: hahhah
885 2011-03-11 10:57:38 <TD> people brought up botnets as why bitcoin can't work since day 1
886 2011-03-11 10:57:44 dirtyfilthy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
887 2011-03-11 10:57:49 <TD> yet here we are .... people are trading and using the system
888 2011-03-11 10:58:09 <Aciid> fuck botnets, we will gather the coins before the skiddies do
889 2011-03-11 10:58:19 <Aciid> were here and were queer
890 2011-03-11 10:59:34 <Spenvo> true, i understand that, but mysteryminer showed there is either a legitimate or illegitimate interest in quickly spiking the system - i'm done fear mongering for the night
891 2011-03-11 10:59:55 <Spenvo> you brought it up TD ;)
892 2011-03-11 11:00:19 <TD> heh
893 2011-03-11 11:00:31 <TD> so i did
894 2011-03-11 11:00:47 <Spenvo> we all want bitcoin to succeed and disrupt and do great things
895 2011-03-11 11:00:51 <lfm> anyway it is a LOT less significant that the 2010 July slashdor event
896 2011-03-11 11:01:05 <sipa> in relative terms... absolutely
897 2011-03-11 11:01:11 <Spenvo> wasn't around then, what happened?
898 2011-03-11 11:01:24 <sipa> but in absolute ones... it was a f*cking spike of 400GH/s at its peak
899 2011-03-11 11:01:27 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
900 2011-03-11 11:01:29 <lfm> difficulty hit the 4x increase limit
901 2011-03-11 11:01:45 <sipa> total hash rate increases 10x in a few days time
902 2011-03-11 11:01:48 <sipa> back then
903 2011-03-11 11:01:54 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png
904 2011-03-11 11:01:56 <ArtForz> mid-july
905 2011-03-11 11:02:09 <Aciid> jesus
906 2011-03-11 11:02:09 <lfm> more like nearly 1000x
907 2011-03-11 11:02:15 <Aciid> but are they still with us?
908 2011-03-11 11:02:17 <Aciid> it didn't drop
909 2011-03-11 11:02:43 <lfm> right
910 2011-03-11 11:02:49 <sipa> no, 10x :)
911 2011-03-11 11:02:56 dirtyfilthy has joined
912 2011-03-11 11:03:23 <ArtForz> yeah, that was pretty much 10x overnight
913 2011-03-11 11:03:26 <Spenvo> wow
914 2011-03-11 11:03:34 <da2ce7> when you look at in exp, it dosn't look much of a drop
915 2011-03-11 11:03:41 <ArtForz> and shortly after GPU mining took off
916 2011-03-11 11:03:44 <da2ce7> the thing is that we get cought up in the short term
917 2011-03-11 11:04:20 <sipa> i think it's the largest relative drop since somewhere last year we experienced now, though
918 2011-03-11 11:04:45 <ArtForz> yeah
919 2011-03-11 11:04:50 <da2ce7> yep
920 2011-03-11 11:05:03 <ArtForz> imo having mining botnets per se isn't too big a deal
921 2011-03-11 11:05:06 <lfm> last May there was a difficulty drop of similar relative proportions
922 2011-03-11 11:05:12 <Spenvo> those were the days; people got rich, everybody was gettin' laid
923 2011-03-11 11:05:12 <da2ce7> but the diff isn't going to ajust down two times running
924 2011-03-11 11:05:32 <xelister> I wonder if JP quake has effect
925 2011-03-11 11:05:32 <ArtForz> only problem is when a single one gets a majority
926 2011-03-11 11:06:37 <UukGoblin> we'll soon see how much mining was happening in Japan...
927 2011-03-11 11:06:39 <sipa> if some botnets combined get a majority, that may be mad as well
928 2011-03-11 11:06:44 <sipa> *bad
929 2011-03-11 11:06:54 <xelister> MAD
930 2011-03-11 11:06:56 <sipa> since that may make "legitimate" mining unprofitable
931 2011-03-11 11:07:41 <UukGoblin> xelister, the diff started falling a few days ago
932 2011-03-11 11:07:58 <Spenvo> the longer btc is around, the harder it is to pull off, but the more likely it will be attempted (if the value of BTC continues to rise)
933 2011-03-11 11:08:26 <ArtForz> of course difficulty started falling
934 2011-03-11 11:08:44 <Spenvo> or i could tell them about the secret back door, but i wouldn't do that
935 2011-03-11 11:09:18 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
936 2011-03-11 11:11:05 <Spenvo> he does eclipse the network hash capacity twice
937 2011-03-11 11:11:08 <lfm> ArtForz: I havent heard the explanation for how that graph separated out the MM hashes?
938 2011-03-11 11:11:18 <da2ce7> that link isn't loading for me.
939 2011-03-11 11:11:24 <ArtForz> lfm: easy, different bnExtraNonce in coinbase
940 2011-03-11 11:11:46 <ArtForz> normal miners produce a 1-byte extranonce
941 2011-03-11 11:11:55 <ArtForz> tychos pool produces a 4-byte one
942 2011-03-11 11:12:09 <sipa> MM often produced a 2-byte one
943 2011-03-11 11:12:12 <ArtForz> whatever that was, it has a 2-byte coinbase
944 2011-03-11 11:12:16 <ArtForz> yep
945 2011-03-11 11:12:39 <da2ce7> ok... bblater, format time!
946 2011-03-11 11:12:55 da2ce7 has quit ()
947 2011-03-11 11:13:31 <ArtForz> now the question is... why did it suddenly stop
948 2011-03-11 11:14:25 <tcatm> the mm graph was made from his wallet: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc
949 2011-03-11 11:14:54 <ArtForz> yeah, that move was just boneheaded
950 2011-03-11 11:14:56 <BlueMatt> some one is rich
951 2011-03-11 11:15:22 <BlueMatt> or they want to show off their winings
952 2011-03-11 11:15:43 <ArtForz> I mean, I have nearly that much sitting in my savings wallet, but all as unspent generations
953 2011-03-11 11:16:11 <BlueMatt> well some people dont have the mining equipment you have Art
954 2011-03-11 11:16:18 <ArtForz> moving everything into one addr is just asking to get tracked
955 2011-03-11 11:17:51 <BlueMatt> yea pretty much
956 2011-03-11 11:19:20 <ArtForz> doesnt matter much in the long run, but imo shows that the whole op wasnt thought through very well
957 2011-03-11 11:20:24 <Spenvo> after all of this talk about bitcoin's vulnerabilities, compare it to GPS something we rely upon for critical services: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20202-gps-chaos-how-a-30-box-can-jam-your-life.html
958 2011-03-11 11:20:26 <TD> or the miner is sending his money to somebody else who isn't a technical user
959 2011-03-11 11:20:30 <BlueMatt> probably someone testing if they could do ti
960 2011-03-11 11:20:34 <BlueMatt> it*
961 2011-03-11 11:20:35 <TD> and doesn't want to screw about with wallet imports and -rescan and stuff
962 2011-03-11 11:21:29 <TD> Spenvo: only the USA relies on gps for mobile service ;)
963 2011-03-11 11:21:53 <Spenvo> exactly! and guess where i live
964 2011-03-11 11:22:04 <Spenvo> sigh
965 2011-03-11 11:22:06 <BlueMatt> TD: no gps is relied on in many plces
966 2011-03-11 11:22:09 <BlueMatt> places*
967 2011-03-11 11:22:20 <TD> it's a feature of CDMA
968 2011-03-11 11:22:20 <ArtForz> still stupid to put it all in one addr, moving it into two dozen or so addrs and sending random <1k amounts around for a while makes claiming "bought those from some random guy I dont rememeber" a lot easier
969 2011-03-11 11:22:55 <BlueMatt> TD: its also used for a lot of devices to check time, including atms, etc
970 2011-03-11 11:23:29 <ArtForz> btw, that excuse should be called pulling a baron ;)
971 2011-03-11 11:23:46 <bxc> hows gps used in CDMA? for timing? or position?
972 2011-03-11 11:24:10 <TD> timing
973 2011-03-11 11:24:56 <Spenvo> guys, been a pleasure, irc is too damn distracting, gotta go
974 2011-03-11 11:25:00 <TD> BlueMatt: the article actually says nobody knows why the ATMs stopped working :)
975 2011-03-11 11:25:05 <TD> cya Spenvo
976 2011-03-11 11:25:19 <BlueMatt> TD: its gps based, no one really knows exactly why though
977 2011-03-11 11:25:22 * TD took today off, but it's time to head out also
978 2011-03-11 11:25:42 <Spenvo> thx TD - keep making the world a better place
979 2011-03-11 11:25:51 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
980 2011-03-11 11:31:23 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
981 2011-03-11 11:34:34 FellowTraveler has joined
982 2011-03-11 11:34:53 <FellowTraveler> hi all
983 2011-03-11 11:43:23 <lfm> hi
984 2011-03-11 11:47:59 <BlueMatt> hello
985 2011-03-11 11:49:44 noagendamarket has joined
986 2011-03-11 11:53:38 TD has joined
987 2011-03-11 11:58:13 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
988 2011-03-11 12:00:39 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
989 2011-03-11 12:00:41 <gribble> 113130
990 2011-03-11 12:04:48 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
991 2011-03-11 12:04:49 <gribble> 67332.98466748
992 2011-03-11 12:11:21 <eps1> ;;b,stats
993 2011-03-11 12:11:21 <gribble> Error: "b,stats" is not a valid command.
994 2011-03-11 12:11:24 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
995 2011-03-11 12:11:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113130 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1781 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 24 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67332.98466748
996 2011-03-11 12:17:22 ovatork has joined
997 2011-03-11 12:20:05 TD has joined
998 2011-03-11 12:25:12 <[Tycho]> http://l-pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/013ft2c0.jpg
999 2011-03-11 12:25:42 <BlueMatt> dam, welcome to 2012
1000 2011-03-11 12:26:01 <[Tycho]> Looks more impressive on video
1001 2011-03-11 12:26:16 <BlueMatt> Is http://www.codeproject.com/info/cpol10.aspx compatible with bitcoin's license?
1002 2011-03-11 12:30:38 spaetz has left ()
1003 2011-03-11 12:37:22 <edcba> isn't bitcoin gpl ?
1004 2011-03-11 12:37:45 <ArtForz> no
1005 2011-03-11 12:38:06 <edcba> what is it then ?
1006 2011-03-11 12:38:07 <edcba> mit ?
1007 2011-03-11 12:38:17 <ArtForz> looks like mit, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/license.txt
1008 2011-03-11 12:38:56 <ArtForz> yep, MIT
1009 2011-03-11 12:39:14 <edcba> anyway cpol doesn't look like much compatible with anything : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Project_Open_License :)
1010 2011-03-11 12:40:19 <edcba> and what about dependancies ?
1011 2011-03-11 12:40:23 <BlueMatt> shame
1012 2011-03-11 12:41:20 <ArtForz> thats kinda... a problem
1013 2011-03-11 12:42:03 <ArtForz> we statically link boost, bdb and openssl libcrypto
1014 2011-03-11 12:43:12 <edcba> wx ?
1015 2011-03-11 12:43:58 <ArtForz> well, that too for bitcoin GUI
1016 2011-03-11 12:44:08 <edcba> seems you are ok with all if you mentioned them somewhere
1017 2011-03-11 12:44:31 <edcba> hmmm
1018 2011-03-11 12:44:32 <ArtForz> bdb is a bit of a problem
1019 2011-03-11 12:44:34 <edcba> not really in fact
1020 2011-03-11 12:44:38 <ousado> which code from codeproject do you need?
1021 2011-03-11 12:44:43 <edcba> yes bdb requires some source
1022 2011-03-11 12:44:46 <ArtForz> its under sleepycat, which is pretty gpl-like
1023 2011-03-11 12:45:11 <edcba> * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on
1024 2011-03-11 12:45:11 <edcba> * how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
1025 2011-03-11 12:45:12 <edcba> * accompanying software that uses the DB software.
1026 2011-03-11 12:45:54 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1027 2011-03-11 12:47:16 <ArtForz> aka "whoops"
1028 2011-03-11 12:47:44 <subpar> room for improvement ;-)
1029 2011-03-11 12:49:05 <ArtForz> IANAL, but that sounds like one would need a commercial bdb license to distribute a modified bitcoin w/o source
1030 2011-03-11 12:54:09 ovatork has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1031 2011-03-11 12:54:19 <ArtForz> boost is MIT, ossl is ossl/ssleay license, aka modified 4-clause BSD
1032 2011-03-11 12:55:28 <BlueMatt> god who decided we needed so many licenses
1033 2011-03-11 12:58:49 <ArtForz> wx is weakened lgpl, zlib is 3-clause BSD, glibc lgpl
1034 2011-03-11 13:00:13 <lfm> so basiclly it is impossible to write legal software
1035 2011-03-11 13:00:17 <ArtForz> nah
1036 2011-03-11 13:01:45 <ArtForz> as far as I can tell that mans "all" you need to distribute modified bitcoin without source is a commercial bdb license
1037 2011-03-11 13:02:10 <ArtForz> and a whole bunch of copyright notices in your docs
1038 2011-03-11 13:02:18 <lfm> I think it become subject to a godel incompleteness theory. You can never find all the rules you are subject to.
1039 2011-03-11 13:02:38 <Keefe> how hard would it be to switch to a different db to avoid even the bdb license?
1040 2011-03-11 13:03:10 <ArtForz> not too hard, looks like the db stuff is pretty well encapsulated in db.c/h
1041 2011-03-11 13:03:47 <lfm> you might be able to use gnu-db but I heard it sucks so you might not want to
1042 2011-03-11 13:04:11 <Keefe> what db would you recommend if one wanted to avoid any licensing?
1043 2011-03-11 13:04:31 <lfm> they're all licenced one way or another
1044 2011-03-11 13:04:44 <Keefe> and distribute a modified binary
1045 2011-03-11 13:05:02 <ArtForz> sqlite ?
1046 2011-03-11 13:05:53 <Keefe> "All of the deliverable code in SQLite has been dedicated to the public domain by the authors."
1047 2011-03-11 13:05:59 <lfm> Keefe: you mean to keep the source private?
1048 2011-03-11 13:06:42 <Keefe> i was just following the discussion, with ArtForz mentioning "distribute modified bitcoin without source"
1049 2011-03-11 13:07:00 <Keefe> i'm not saying i'd support a closed-source bitcoin
1050 2011-03-11 13:07:04 <ArtForz> well, thats the general difference between BSD/MIT and copyleft ala GPL
1051 2011-03-11 13:08:04 <ArtForz> jut though its interesting
1052 2011-03-11 13:08:37 <ArtForz> so the only part preventing closed-source derivatives is... bdb
1053 2011-03-11 13:08:42 <Keefe> fyi, i know almost nothing about this license stuff
1054 2011-03-11 13:08:58 mmarker has joined
1055 2011-03-11 13:09:20 <mmarker> genjix?
1056 2011-03-11 13:10:05 <Keefe> haha, if you really must have a license for sqlite... "For a one-time fee of US $1000.00 we will add your company name and contact information to a copy of the sample license agreement, sign the completed license, and send you the original signed copy by post and a scan of the signed document by email."
1057 2011-03-11 13:11:02 <Keefe> that follows "Even though SQLite is in the public domain and does not require a license, some users want to obtain a license anyway."
1058 2011-03-11 13:11:18 <mmarker> Keefe: Wonder how many people took them up on the offer.
1059 2011-03-11 13:11:34 <mmarker> and how many of those were serious vs. "hey, let's give them a grand since they kick ass"
1060 2011-03-11 13:11:40 <Keefe> :)
1061 2011-03-11 13:12:02 <Keefe> they deserve the latter for their contribution
1062 2011-03-11 13:12:50 <Keefe> they = sqlite devs
1063 2011-03-11 13:14:50 <mmarker> Honestly, it's projects like those, the guts and infrastructure, people tend to forget. Everyone goes gaga over a UI or end user experience, but does anyone thank the poor bastards who do some of that icky internal work...
1064 2011-03-11 13:17:30 brunner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1065 2011-03-11 13:21:51 <luke-jr> did the Tokyo Tower go down yet?
1066 2011-03-11 13:23:32 <[Tycho]> Just a bit.
1067 2011-03-11 13:23:54 <Aciid> bye bye satoshi
1068 2011-03-11 13:24:10 <Aciid> death of an alterego
1069 2011-03-11 13:24:15 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, http://www.jiji.com/jc/d4?d=d4_topics&p=eqa200-jlp10575297
1070 2011-03-11 13:24:20 <mmarker> Actually, if I was in a major quake, I'd want to be in Japan of all places
1071 2011-03-11 13:27:15 <luke-jr> http://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/tokyo-magnitude-8-04-tokyo-tower-falls-mirai-yuuki.jpg
1072 2011-03-11 13:28:16 <mmarker> Tycho: Great shot there. Looks like the design is doing what it should be doing...slide like hell
1073 2011-03-11 13:28:37 <xelister> Fuck linux filesystem in the ass
1074 2011-03-11 13:28:44 <xelister> linux suscks donkey cocks.
1075 2011-03-11 13:29:06 <xelister> computer hanged partially, sys+rq+Sync, Boot it... and a file saved few hours BEFORE got destroyed. WTF?!?!?!
1076 2011-03-11 13:29:42 <tcatm> forgot to remount ro?
1077 2011-03-11 13:29:59 <xelister> tcatm: what?
1078 2011-03-11 13:30:05 <tcatm> sysrq+u
1079 2011-03-11 13:30:12 <xelister> what the fuck for
1080 2011-03-11 13:30:25 <tcatm> to prevent changes to the filesystem
1081 2011-03-11 13:30:30 <xelister> if it fucked up the file saved HOURS AGO, then clearly the fs suckc cocks
1082 2011-03-11 13:30:31 <BlueMatt> its REISUB
1083 2011-03-11 13:30:41 <sipa> what fs?
1084 2011-03-11 13:30:50 <mmarker> and not if the file is still open somewhere
1085 2011-03-11 13:30:52 <xelister> ext3
1086 2011-03-11 13:30:54 <xelister> ext4
1087 2011-03-11 13:31:02 <tcatm> sysrq+u, wait a few minutes, sysrq+s, wait again, sysrq+b
1088 2011-03-11 13:31:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: aren't you supposed to reisub not just s?
1089 2011-03-11 13:31:25 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisub
1090 2011-03-11 13:31:29 <xelister> well fuck that shit is still shouldnt happen
1091 2011-03-11 13:31:42 <xelister> ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime)
1092 2011-03-11 13:32:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: have to reisub myself occasionally, never seen anything like this
1093 2011-03-11 13:32:17 <BlueMatt> maybe you didnt wait long enough and there was some kind of corruption?
1094 2011-03-11 13:32:26 <xelister> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
1095 2011-03-11 13:32:40 * xelister install Mac Os X on Ext4 lead developer's box
1096 2011-03-11 13:33:19 <tcatm> better install a backup software
1097 2011-03-11 13:33:24 <BlueMatt> or maybe you just did sysrq s and rebooted, without sysrq r to reclaim keyboard input from X, ie you didnt type anything into the kernel
1098 2011-03-11 13:35:48 altamic has joined
1099 2011-03-11 13:38:26 <BlueMatt> is bitcoin's license compatible with GPL?
1100 2011-03-11 13:41:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sortof.
1101 2011-03-11 13:42:06 <luke-jr> GPL will gladly infect it.
1102 2011-03-11 13:42:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, nevermind
1103 2011-03-11 13:42:15 <mmarker> What IS bitcoin's license?
1104 2011-03-11 13:42:25 <luke-jr> but it cannot *remain* BSD licensed, if you add GPL code to it
1105 2011-03-11 13:42:36 Blitzboom has joined
1106 2011-03-11 13:42:48 <BlueMatt> mits mit isnt it?
1107 2011-03-11 13:42:59 <luke-jr> oh, maybe
1108 2011-03-11 13:43:06 <luke-jr> MIT, X11, and BSD are all pretty much the same
1109 2011-03-11 13:43:12 <BlueMatt> fair enogh
1110 2011-03-11 13:48:37 Jeroenz0r_ has joined
1111 2011-03-11 13:49:04 Jeroenz0r has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1112 2011-03-11 13:49:09 Jeroenz0r_ is now known as Jeroenz0r
1113 2011-03-11 13:51:13 Kiba has joined
1114 2011-03-11 13:58:19 <Kiba> earthquake in Japan!
1115 2011-03-11 13:58:25 <Kiba> hope MagicalTux is alright
1116 2011-03-11 13:58:53 <sipa> 09:14:44 < MagicalTux> I'm back in the office, but all the stuff is moving
1117 2011-03-11 13:59:31 <Blitzboom> heâs in japan?
1118 2011-03-11 14:01:15 <ne0futur> he is alright
1119 2011-03-11 14:01:22 <ne0futur> twitted after the quake
1120 2011-03-11 14:01:27 <ne0futur> https://twitter.com/#!/MagicalTux/
1121 2011-03-11 14:02:04 <ne0futur> biggest earthquake for the last 140 years
1122 2011-03-11 14:02:26 <ne0futur> here in Peru we re waiting for the tsunami . . . on the other side of the pacific
1123 2011-03-11 14:02:33 <BlueMatt> he spoke on here after the quake as well
1124 2011-03-11 14:02:55 <BlueMatt> <MagicalTux> genjix, it's still moving
1125 2011-03-11 14:02:55 <BlueMatt> <MagicalTux> I'm back in the office, but all the stuff is moving
1126 2011-03-11 14:02:55 <BlueMatt> * gribble gives channel operator status to Xunie
1127 2011-03-11 14:02:55 <BlueMatt> <genjix> MagicalTux: are you ok dude? there's the big earthquake hapening
1128 2011-03-11 14:02:55 <BlueMatt> <MagicalTux> genjix, still moves
1129 2011-03-11 14:02:56 <BlueMatt> <MagicalTux> I'm finishing stuff here and I'll be heading home
1130 2011-03-11 14:03:05 <ne0futur> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/text.php?id=pacific.2011.03.11.073000
1131 2011-03-11 14:03:12 <Xunie> BlueMatt, you highlighted me!
1132 2011-03-11 14:03:23 <BlueMatt> my bad
1133 2011-03-11 14:04:10 <Xunie> Oh no, but it's okay! Because now I feel all important! :D
1134 2011-03-11 14:04:41 <BlueMatt> lol ok Xunie
1135 2011-03-11 14:04:54 <FellowTraveler> you can mix GPL and BSD, you just have to include the BSD waiver in the GPL notice.
1136 2011-03-11 14:05:29 <luke-jr> FellowTraveler: but the combination can no longer be distributed under just BSD terms
1137 2011-03-11 14:05:34 <FellowTraveler> yes that is true.
1138 2011-03-11 14:05:59 <FellowTraveler> I'm just saying, it CAN be distributed under GPL terms, without violating BSD
1139 2011-03-11 14:06:06 <FellowTraveler> you just have to put the waiver in there.
1140 2011-03-11 14:06:36 <luke-jr> and I'm just saying, if you're writing BSD/MIT licensed software, you don't want to use GPL in it
1141 2011-03-11 14:07:56 <Diablo-D3> erm
1142 2011-03-11 14:08:00 <Diablo-D3> "dont" no
1143 2011-03-11 14:08:02 <Diablo-D3> "CANT" yes
1144 2011-03-11 14:08:10 <Diablo-D3> if you use GPL in it, it becomes GPL all over.
1145 2011-03-11 14:08:29 <Diablo-D3> you can put BSD in a GPL program fine, its upgraded to GPL
1146 2011-03-11 14:08:36 <FellowTraveler> it gets its sticky icky GPL all over you.
1147 2011-03-11 14:09:16 <FellowTraveler> actually you can't put BSD into GPL without the waiver.
1148 2011-03-11 14:09:21 <FellowTraveler> Otherwise you violate BSD.
1149 2011-03-11 14:09:23 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: IF you distribute the result...and if you own copyright over the work in question, you can change that as well.
1150 2011-03-11 14:11:00 <luke-jr> [08:57:33] <kblessinggr> http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/interactive/2011/03/world/gallery.japan.quake/images/lg.hrzgal.16.rt.jpg note church steeple in upper left
1151 2011-03-11 14:11:02 <luke-jr> [08:57:53] <kblessinggr> the death toll just jumped, police say around 200-300 bodies were found in Sendai
1152 2011-03-11 14:11:04 <luke-jr> where is MagicalTux?
1153 2011-03-11 14:11:35 <mmarker> For a 8.9, 200-300 is still damn low.
1154 2011-03-11 14:11:35 <Diablo-D3> [09:00:22] <FellowTraveler> Otherwise you violate BSD.
1155 2011-03-11 14:11:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: he heard from him just after the quake
1156 2011-03-11 14:11:38 <Diablo-D3> FellowTraveler: you are an idiot.
1157 2011-03-11 14:11:48 <Diablo-D3> go read the BSD four times over.
1158 2011-03-11 14:11:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that just happened I guess
1159 2011-03-11 14:12:02 <Diablo-D3> BSD code can be used _in closed source programs without releasing the source_
1160 2011-03-11 14:12:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no it was hours ago
1161 2011-03-11 14:12:13 <Diablo-D3> yes, it can be legally upgraded to GPL without violating BSD.
1162 2011-03-11 14:12:41 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: even if I dont own the copyright of the BSD code, I can include it with my GPL code.
1163 2011-03-11 14:12:49 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: yup.
1164 2011-03-11 14:13:10 * Diablo-D3 seriously wonders how many people have idiotic conceptions of licenses
1165 2011-03-11 14:13:16 <mmarker> It's when you distribute when everything gets messy. If you never share anything, noone gives a rats ass.
1166 2011-03-11 14:13:53 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: not true anymore.
1167 2011-03-11 14:14:06 <Diablo-D3> AGPL is in ur programz, raping your lawz
1168 2011-03-11 14:14:32 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: But with AGPL, that's for webapps, where the assumption that loading the stuff in your browser is distribution.
1169 2011-03-11 14:14:51 <Diablo-D3> actually its for ANYTHING that non-local users connect to
1170 2011-03-11 14:15:16 <Diablo-D3> if an IRCD was under AGPL, and I connected to it, yes, I could demand the source.
1171 2011-03-11 14:16:03 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: yup. But for example, ly little throwaway apps that used readline and a mix of BSD and proprietary code, then that's a licencing nightmare. But if I never distribute it, then there isn't a problem.
1172 2011-03-11 14:16:56 <mmarker> Yea, AGPL3 is a real nice bit of work.
1173 2011-03-11 14:17:14 * luke-jr sits his children watching Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 :p
1174 2011-03-11 14:17:27 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: depends on the license of the prioprietary code.
1175 2011-03-11 14:17:55 justmoon has joined
1176 2011-03-11 14:18:04 Zarutian has joined
1177 2011-03-11 14:18:07 <justmoon> I need to pick a code sample from the bitcoin source code for the video
1178 2011-03-11 14:18:12 <justmoon> recommendations?
1179 2011-03-11 14:18:18 <noagendamarket> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=970_1299840275 damn
1180 2011-03-11 14:18:30 <mmarker> justmoon: what would you do with the code?
1181 2011-03-11 14:18:42 <mmarker> explain it, use it as something to look pretty?
1182 2011-03-11 14:18:55 <justmoon> yep, it's to illustrate the fact that bitcoin is open source
1183 2011-03-11 14:19:01 <mmarker> If you want something shocking, the code that defines the origin block is a good one.
1184 2011-03-11 14:19:02 <justmoon> it needs to look cool to a non-technical person
1185 2011-03-11 14:19:03 brunner has joined
1186 2011-03-11 14:19:05 <justmoon> and should be bitcoin specific
1187 2011-03-11 14:19:22 <justmoon> bonus points if the words coin or bitcoin appear a lot :)
1188 2011-03-11 14:20:06 <justmoon> it'll be syntax highlighted of course, so I don't mind if there are some constants in there - constants always look pretty
1189 2011-03-11 14:20:33 <mmarker> justmoon: The reason why I say use the origin block is because of the text in the block.
1190 2011-03-11 14:20:45 brunner has quit (Client Quit)
1191 2011-03-11 14:21:42 <sipa> i think finding code that looks cool to non-programmers is very hard :)
1192 2011-03-11 14:21:58 <mmarker> sipa: Yea.
1193 2011-03-11 14:22:08 <justmoon> sipa: not at all, code always looks really impressive and technical if it's a nice font and pretty colors :)
1194 2011-03-11 14:22:24 <Xunie> niekie, lol
1195 2011-03-11 14:22:34 <Xunie> Come back, i turned it off...
1196 2011-03-11 14:22:36 <Xunie> brb
1197 2011-03-11 14:23:58 <mmarker> justmoon: look at main.cpp, line 1941
1198 2011-03-11 14:24:08 <mmarker> sadly, mostly constants...but you'll see what I mean
1199 2011-03-11 14:24:35 <justmoon> woah, github doesn't highlight c++ code, never noticed that
1200 2011-03-11 14:25:27 <mmarker> you're right...didn't see that either
1201 2011-03-11 14:25:54 <justmoon> i have to use my own highlighter anyway so the designer can pick the colors, no biggie
1202 2011-03-11 14:25:55 <luke-jr> definitely need syntax highlighting
1203 2011-03-11 14:26:01 <luke-jr> justmoon: don't use GitHub. that's non-free
1204 2011-03-11 14:26:10 <justmoon> luke-jr: free alt?
1205 2011-03-11 14:26:15 <luke-jr> justmoon: Gitorious
1206 2011-03-11 14:26:48 <mmarker> Hmm, in a bit of irony...the US Tsunami network on the west coast will be doing their drill to see if their warning systems are ready on the 23rd of March
1207 2011-03-11 14:27:19 Spenvo has joined
1208 2011-03-11 14:27:26 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/blobs/master/main.cpp
1209 2011-03-11 14:27:46 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: welp, they can take that off their todo list
1210 2011-03-11 14:28:11 <Diablo-D3> they can proceed directly to "nope, it isnt" on the 23rd
1211 2011-03-11 14:29:09 <luke-jr> maybe http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/blobs/master/main.cpp#line3287
1212 2011-03-11 14:29:11 <mmarker> hmm, is genix awake?
1213 2011-03-11 14:29:19 <sipa> genjix: are you awake?
1214 2011-03-11 14:29:28 <mmarker> No.
1215 2011-03-11 14:30:22 mynic has joined
1216 2011-03-11 14:31:42 <Kiba> wow
1217 2011-03-11 14:31:45 <Kiba> an earthquake
1218 2011-03-11 14:31:54 <luke-jr> Kiba: just woke up? :P
1219 2011-03-11 14:32:54 <justmoon> wtf: const char* pszTimestamp = "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks";
1220 2011-03-11 14:33:09 <mmarker> justmoon: Why do you think I picked that :D
1221 2011-03-11 14:33:15 <justmoon> xD
1222 2011-03-11 14:33:28 <mmarker> Works on 2 levels
1223 2011-03-11 14:33:33 <Diablo-D3> justmoon: wtf.
1224 2011-03-11 14:33:33 <justmoon> unfortunately the section has a bunch of linewraps - not too pretty :/
1225 2011-03-11 14:33:34 <mmarker> you show "Ohh, cool code!"
1226 2011-03-11 14:33:35 <Avemo> genesis block isn't it?
1227 2011-03-11 14:33:46 <mmarker> justmoon: reformat it
1228 2011-03-11 14:33:59 <justmoon> mmarker, even then
1229 2011-03-11 14:34:03 <mmarker> Avemo: yup.
1230 2011-03-11 14:34:17 <justmoon> main.cpp,line 1949
1231 2011-03-11 14:34:21 <mmarker> justmoon: The rest of the code is a bit of an eyesore :D
1232 2011-03-11 14:34:25 <Kiba> hope Satoshi doesn't live in Japan or something
1233 2011-03-11 14:34:37 <justmoon> mmarker: AcceptBlock looks nice, with the checkpoints
1234 2011-03-11 14:35:00 <mmarker> Kiba: Again, it's bad. But Japan is one of those places that's been ready and prepared for a major quake for years.
1235 2011-03-11 14:35:01 <justmoon> Kiba: his forum posts all have US daylight timestamps, I did a statistic :)
1236 2011-03-11 14:35:11 <justmoon> Kiba: I'm pretty sure he's US
1237 2011-03-11 14:36:27 <justmoon> to clarify: I downloaded and read all his posts while doing research for the video, and for fun drew a bell curve of when he posts and it nicely lines up with US timezones
1238 2011-03-11 14:36:28 <eps1> i love the fact that satoshi created this cryptocurrency and then just disapeared
1239 2011-03-11 14:36:53 <justmoon> eps1: yeah, step 2 is reappear, take all the money and disappear again :P
1240 2011-03-11 14:36:55 <Avemo> it's quite a model for others
1241 2011-03-11 14:36:56 <Blitzboom> nice, justmoon
1242 2011-03-11 14:37:01 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1243 2011-03-11 14:37:08 <Avemo> on how to do such things
1244 2011-03-11 14:37:13 <sipa> gavin still has regular e-mail contact with him
1245 2011-03-11 14:37:32 <justmoon> sipa: I have regular email contact with my fake identities too :P
1246 2011-03-11 14:37:35 <Blitzboom> i guess heâll return
1247 2011-03-11 14:37:52 skeledrew has joined
1248 2011-03-11 14:38:10 <mmarker> Or he may be back already! OooooOOooooOoooo!
1249 2011-03-11 14:38:18 <Avemo> one can even have telepatic contact with alteregos
1250 2011-03-11 14:38:47 <Blitzboom> maybe gavin is satoshi
1251 2011-03-11 14:39:31 <sipa> i doubt that :)
1252 2011-03-11 14:39:59 <justmoon> Blitzboom: didn't they disagree on a few things - of course that could all be part of the plan :D
1253 2011-03-11 14:40:17 <Blitzboom> yeah, itâd be suspicious otherwise
1254 2011-03-11 14:40:28 <Avemo> I'd say no, satoshi has no incentive to run escrow
1255 2011-03-11 14:40:34 <noagendamarket> its called schizophrenia....
1256 2011-03-11 14:40:40 <mmarker> Well, I'll be back. Wanted to see how gengix was getting on with his project.
1257 2011-03-11 14:40:52 mmarker has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
1258 2011-03-11 14:42:02 <justmoon> oh wow, GenerateBitcoins() is beautiful!
1259 2011-03-11 14:42:08 <Xunie> So ehh, did you guys hear anything from Satoshi?
1260 2011-03-11 14:42:31 <justmoon> Xunie: <justmoon> I'm pretty sure he's US
1261 2011-03-11 14:42:38 <noagendamarket> wei dai is satoshi....
1262 2011-03-11 14:42:39 <Avemo> post a link to generatebitcoins() pls
1263 2011-03-11 14:43:00 <justmoon> line 3087
1264 2011-03-11 14:43:02 <justmoon> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/blobs/master/main.cpp
1265 2011-03-11 14:43:54 <EvanR-work> satoshi?
1266 2011-03-11 14:43:56 <justmoon> it's a bit... cause nobody uses that code for anything really, since other apps are used for mining, but it's nice code, middle-long lines, pretty indentation
1267 2011-03-11 14:44:10 <EvanR-work> you can always challenge his identity using that public key
1268 2011-03-11 14:44:44 <sipa> that would work if someone would claim being satoshi
1269 2011-03-11 14:45:15 <EvanR-work> what are we talking about
1270 2011-03-11 14:46:30 <FellowTraveler> Diablo-D3: You're right, the waiver solves GPL problems, not the other way around. I was entirely mistaken.
1271 2011-03-11 14:46:30 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1272 2011-03-11 14:47:07 <EvanR-work> justmoon: uhm beautiful/
1273 2011-03-11 14:47:19 <FellowTraveler> I was also stoned out of my mind but I still take full responsibility for it.
1274 2011-03-11 14:47:47 <EvanR-work> about as ugly as any other c++ code
1275 2011-03-11 14:47:50 <Diablo-D3> FellowTraveler: you have to be careful how you do waivers too
1276 2011-03-11 14:48:06 <justmoon> EvanR-work: other suggestions welcome
1277 2011-03-11 14:48:10 <Diablo-D3> FellowTraveler: theres a limit on whats considered acceptable on a GPL waiver before you really just wanna switch licenses
1278 2011-03-11 14:48:14 <EvanR-work> justmoon: for what?
1279 2011-03-11 14:50:18 <justmoon> animated video contains the info that bitcoin is open source, so we show some code in that scene
1280 2011-03-11 14:51:25 <EvanR-work> ah
1281 2011-03-11 14:51:54 <EvanR-work> linux kernel code in videos like that is usually pretty 'nice', but its in the context of kernels and device drivers
1282 2011-03-11 14:52:10 <EvanR-work> in C
1283 2011-03-11 14:52:25 <Diablo-D3> there is no code that looks good in bitcoin
1284 2011-03-11 14:52:39 <EvanR-work> gui apps are usually much uglier code, and its not warranted
1285 2011-03-11 14:53:15 <EvanR-work> im afraid nice code might not look like much in a video
1286 2011-03-11 14:53:20 <EvanR-work> short procedures are borign
1287 2011-03-11 14:54:18 <EvanR-work> named side effects are easier to understand without being a programmer, as opposed to pure functions
1288 2011-03-11 14:56:40 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: main.cpp isn't GUI
1289 2011-03-11 14:57:21 <genjix> sipa: sup
1290 2011-03-11 14:57:33 <sipa> 15:20:11 < mmarker> hmm, is genix awake?
1291 2011-03-11 14:57:33 <sipa> 15:20:19 < sipa> genjix: are you awake?
1292 2011-03-11 14:57:44 <luke-jr> justmoon: GenerateBitcoins isn't beautiful IMO, and probably part of the "hide anything related to mining" bit
1293 2011-03-11 14:57:48 <genjix> ah k.. he just left :p
1294 2011-03-11 14:57:56 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: bitcoin is a gui app
1295 2011-03-11 14:58:06 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: the wx build is
1296 2011-03-11 14:58:07 <genjix> is it now
1297 2011-03-11 14:58:15 <sipa> luke-jr is right though, main.cpp does not contain ui code
1298 2011-03-11 14:58:33 <sipa> it doesn't even contain the main function :)
1299 2011-03-11 14:58:36 <EvanR-work> basic servers also need not be uglier than a kernel
1300 2011-03-11 14:59:06 <justmoon> AddToWallet is another candidate, line 107
1301 2011-03-11 14:59:36 <Blitzboom> i think itâs unimportant
1302 2011-03-11 14:59:38 <luke-jr> justmoon: Spesmilo or BitCoinJ might also be candidates for code
1303 2011-03-11 14:59:41 <Blitzboom> noone will care anyway :P
1304 2011-03-11 14:59:54 <justmoon> luke-jr: hmm, that's a good point
1305 2011-03-11 15:00:17 <luke-jr> justmoon: I still vote CreateNewBlock http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/blobs/master/main.cpp#line3287
1306 2011-03-11 15:00:40 <genjix> tcatm maintains a nogui branch.
1307 2011-03-11 15:00:53 <justmoon> luke-jr: oh yeah, that's nice!
1308 2011-03-11 15:02:00 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/blobs/master/main.cpp#line3371 might be a better scroll point of it
1309 2011-03-11 15:02:35 <luke-jr> justmoon: be sure to mention fees, and not give the impression that free tx are a feature
1310 2011-03-11 15:03:08 <luke-jr> maybe explicitly say "while the community is still relatively small, you can even get transactions approved without fees!"
1311 2011-03-11 15:03:11 <luke-jr> ;)
1312 2011-03-11 15:03:21 <luke-jr> or "without any fee at all"
1313 2011-03-11 15:03:35 <luke-jr> emphasis being on "whileâ¦small"
1314 2011-03-11 15:03:50 <justmoon> luke-jr: yes, here is how fees are mentioned: we have a like price tag with 2.9% + 0.30$ that gets crossed out and replaced with 0.01 BTC
1315 2011-03-11 15:04:06 <justmoon> corresponding line in the script is ...
1316 2011-03-11 15:04:20 <justmoon> "That means the fees are much
1317 2011-03-11 15:04:20 <justmoon> lower,"
1318 2011-03-11 15:05:04 <EvanR-work> wingcash has the same slogan
1319 2011-03-11 15:05:13 <EvanR-work> no fees
1320 2011-03-11 15:05:19 <luke-jr> justmoon: English?
1321 2011-03-11 15:05:42 <justmoon> EvanR: PayPal got big by having no fees in the beginning
1322 2011-03-11 15:05:46 <luke-jr> justmoon: 0.01 BTC per KB might be more accurate
1323 2011-03-11 15:05:57 <EvanR-work> justmoon: and bitcoin i suppose ;)
1324 2011-03-11 15:06:03 <luke-jr> but fees are also variable, so showing anything specific might be a bad idea
1325 2011-03-11 15:06:04 <Blitzboom> noone wants to hear about kilobytes
1326 2011-03-11 15:06:27 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: that's why I'd avoid mentioning specific fees at all
1327 2011-03-11 15:06:33 <EvanR-work> is luke-jr seriously being solicited for opinions on a marketting campaign?
1328 2011-03-11 15:06:39 <FellowTraveler> there's ways to get by without fees. Use in/out exchange rates. Issue vouchers and server keeps expired funds. Issue untraceable cash and the server keeps expired funds.
1329 2011-03-11 15:06:44 <EvanR-work> hes going to put tonal all over it
1330 2011-03-11 15:06:49 <Blitzboom> haha
1331 2011-03-11 15:06:56 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: no, tonal is something independent to market
1332 2011-03-11 15:06:56 <justmoon> luke-jr: if you don't mention fees, people won't get a sense of how drastically cheaper it is
1333 2011-03-11 15:07:04 <EvanR-work> and be overly technical
1334 2011-03-11 15:07:25 <luke-jr> justmoon: you can say that without specifics
1335 2011-03-11 15:07:38 <luke-jr> justmoon: also, sometimes the fee for bitcoin tx is MORE than PayPal
1336 2011-03-11 15:07:39 <justmoon> luke-jr: we have nothing to hide 0.30$ down to 0.01BTC is a fair comparison and people can see how that's a dramatic difference for small transactions
1337 2011-03-11 15:07:41 <Blitzboom> the voice records are already done afaik
1338 2011-03-11 15:07:45 <justmoon> luke-jr: ?!
1339 2011-03-11 15:07:54 <Blitzboom> right?
1340 2011-03-11 15:08:11 <luke-jr> justmoon: for example, if you have a bunch of bitpennies and want to send someone 1 BTC
1341 2011-03-11 15:08:17 <EvanR-work> no one cares about merkel trees, miner fee details, fringe conditions..
1342 2011-03-11 15:08:18 <justmoon> Blitzboom: yep, voice is recorded
1343 2011-03-11 15:08:41 <Blitzboom> so thereâs no point in discussing changes anyway
1344 2011-03-11 15:08:51 <justmoon> luke-jr: if you have a bunch of paypal accounts with 0.01$ then the fees also 100%
1345 2011-03-11 15:09:31 <luke-jr> justmoon: this is a single account, sending a single tx
1346 2011-03-11 15:09:37 <luke-jr> real world example:
1347 2011-03-11 15:09:47 <luke-jr> I sent 11.80 BTC to the Market a while back
1348 2011-03-11 15:09:58 <luke-jr> fee was 0.48 BTC
1349 2011-03-11 15:10:09 <luke-jr> that's over 4%
1350 2011-03-11 15:10:33 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/8bf5d11ef4ad2a48eeb80a0aa84d578bc6aac2555ab19fad87d9ab6c96665529
1351 2011-03-11 15:11:43 <EvanR-work> not a single 'account' where account means address
1352 2011-03-11 15:12:02 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: that definition is irrelevant then
1353 2011-03-11 15:12:14 <luke-jr> nobody has a single address, nor does bitcoin even allow such usage really
1354 2011-03-11 15:12:21 <justmoon> luke-jr: yeah, the only way you could have gotten lots of addresses with one cent in it is by receiving lots of one cent transactions, something that's not possible at all with paypal
1355 2011-03-11 15:12:25 <luke-jr> also, even if it was all the same address, it would be the same
1356 2011-03-11 15:12:38 <luke-jr> justmoon: it scales
1357 2011-03-11 15:12:59 <luke-jr> each 0.01 BTC input could be 1 BTC, if I was sending 1180 BTC
1358 2011-03-11 15:13:06 <luke-jr> wait, nm
1359 2011-03-11 15:13:10 <luke-jr> the fee wouldn't go up then
1360 2011-03-11 15:13:44 <EvanR-work> if it was all in the same address then you can send 1BTC with a small tx
1361 2011-03-11 15:13:53 <luke-jr> It should be safe to say generally much lower than PayPal
1362 2011-03-11 15:14:00 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: nope
1363 2011-03-11 15:14:13 <EvanR-work> no one is going to bust anyone for bitcoin 'false' advertising
1364 2011-03-11 15:14:14 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: inputs are specified as output+index, not address
1365 2011-03-11 15:14:18 <EvanR-work> just make it sound as good as possible
1366 2011-03-11 15:14:29 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: false advertising will result in people getting disappointed
1367 2011-03-11 15:14:44 <EvanR-work> not based on real life advertising
1368 2011-03-11 15:14:49 <EvanR-work> youre wrong
1369 2011-03-11 15:14:55 <justmoon> luke-jr: yeah, definitely, we obviously can't say anything wrong
1370 2011-03-11 15:15:07 <EvanR-work> theres wrong and theres right enough
1371 2011-03-11 15:15:13 <EvanR-work> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Elevator_speech
1372 2011-03-11 15:15:28 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: "generally much lower than PayPal" is right enough
1373 2011-03-11 15:15:36 <luke-jr> "(flat) 0.01 BTC" is wrong
1374 2011-03-11 15:15:37 <EvanR-work> but its not the least upper bound
1375 2011-03-11 15:16:02 <justmoon> luke-jr: that's what we have in the script
1376 2011-03-11 15:16:13 <justmoon> the "fees are much lower" formulation
1377 2011-03-11 15:16:17 <luke-jr> cool
1378 2011-03-11 15:16:21 <Blitzboom> spoiler: noone will care if itâs 100% correct
1379 2011-03-11 15:16:27 <EvanR-work> indeed
1380 2011-03-11 15:16:29 <Blitzboom> except for us
1381 2011-03-11 15:16:34 <justmoon> and the 2.9% + 0.30$ down to 0.01 could very well just be an example
1382 2011-03-11 15:16:40 <justmoon> rather than a general claim
1383 2011-03-11 15:16:43 <luke-jr> true
1384 2011-03-11 15:16:48 <EvanR-work> but if you have the option of two dialogs both not 100% correct, choose the one that makes you sound better
1385 2011-03-11 15:16:50 grondilu has joined
1386 2011-03-11 15:17:11 <luke-jr> IMO, the fee stuff is worth getting more right than the rest, because frankly, the lower fees are the main selling point of bitcoin
1387 2011-03-11 15:17:18 <grondilu> MagicalTux: you're still in Japan?
1388 2011-03-11 15:17:28 <luke-jr> grondilu: he's not here atm
1389 2011-03-11 15:17:37 <EvanR-work> question how often to people pay fees for bitcoin tx
1390 2011-03-11 15:17:45 <Blitzboom> i mean, atm you donât pay any fees at all
1391 2011-03-11 15:17:48 <EvanR-work> yeah
1392 2011-03-11 15:17:49 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: lately, more and more
1393 2011-03-11 15:17:59 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: you do if you care how long they take
1394 2011-03-11 15:18:01 <EvanR-work> so saying you pay fees at all is not even right
1395 2011-03-11 15:18:03 <cosurgi> 09:14 < MagicalTux> genjix, it's still moving
1396 2011-03-11 15:18:24 <cosurgi> so he is in Japan.
1397 2011-03-11 15:18:41 <EvanR-work> should have just avoided the fee issue entirely
1398 2011-03-11 15:18:49 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: that's why I suggested "while the community is still relatively small, you can even get transactions approved without any fee at all!" too
1399 2011-03-11 15:18:53 <EvanR-work> bitcoin is too complex to completely explain in a soundbyte (except in that elevator speech)
1400 2011-03-11 15:19:05 <Blitzboom> ^
1401 2011-03-11 15:19:13 <justmoon> luke-jr: you can't advertise features that will disappear if the advertisement is successful :)
1402 2011-03-11 15:19:26 <luke-jr> justmoon: I suppose âº
1403 2011-03-11 15:19:40 <justmoon> fees are much lower will always be true, because paypal prices aren't based on cost but on market position
1404 2011-03-11 15:19:43 <EvanR-work> you can advertise whatever you want, its called propaganda
1405 2011-03-11 15:19:46 <justmoon> with bitcoin miner's can compete over price
1406 2011-03-11 15:20:03 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: and when people find out there are fees, they will figure it's no better than PayPal and move on
1407 2011-03-11 15:20:10 <EvanR-work> they wont even know
1408 2011-03-11 15:20:13 <EvanR-work> no one pays attention
1409 2011-03-11 15:20:16 <luke-jr> â¦
1410 2011-03-11 15:20:41 <luke-jr> justmoon: please don't mention mining XD
1411 2011-03-11 15:20:46 <EvanR-work> facebook tought me no one cares about details, and if they do, theyll trudge through the mud to figure it out when the time comes
1412 2011-03-11 15:21:11 <justmoon> luke-jr: we had to mention mining because it's the basis for the whole thing
1413 2011-03-11 15:21:20 <justmoon> we had to explain why bitcoin is different
1414 2011-03-11 15:21:27 <justmoon> it's different because it's decentralizedd
1415 2011-03-11 15:21:32 <justmoon> how can it be decentralized
1416 2011-03-11 15:21:35 <justmoon> -> mining
1417 2011-03-11 15:21:40 <luke-jr> justmoon: no, mining is not the basis
1418 2011-03-11 15:21:46 <Blitzboom> how long will the video be, justmoon?
1419 2011-03-11 15:21:51 <luke-jr> it can be decentralized because all the peers verify the data
1420 2011-03-11 15:21:52 <Blitzboom> i hope <10 mins
1421 2011-03-11 15:22:13 <justmoon> luke-jr: yes it is, proof-of-work is necessary to settle conflict as well as issue the currency in a distributed fashion
1422 2011-03-11 15:22:28 <justmoon> Blitzboom: 1:41
1423 2011-03-11 15:22:28 <luke-jr> justmoon: that is details no layman needs to know
1424 2011-03-11 15:22:47 <Blitzboom> wow, just two minutes? it must be loaded with information
1425 2011-03-11 15:22:56 <justmoon> luke-jr: yes they do, you need to convey that bitcoin is unlike the billion other payment providers that already exist
1426 2011-03-11 15:23:10 <luke-jr> justmoon: distributed/p2p coveys that
1427 2011-03-11 15:23:23 <luke-jr> justmoon: giving money out to the fastest miner is not relevant to it
1428 2011-03-11 15:23:28 <EvanR-work> justmoon is saying that the p2p distributed verification == mining
1429 2011-03-11 15:23:32 <EvanR-work> just a choice of what to call it
1430 2011-03-11 15:24:04 <luke-jr> sure, but mining specifically refers to the details that people shouldn't be exposed to
1431 2011-03-11 15:24:41 <luke-jr> they don't need to know about blocks or proof-of-work or how new coins are generated
1432 2011-03-11 15:25:08 <luke-jr> the closest they need to understand is that it's peer-to-peer and that more confirmations are more secure
1433 2011-03-11 15:25:31 <justmoon> luke-jr: if you don't explain how coins are created, you can't explain why the supply is limited
1434 2011-03-11 15:25:45 <justmoon> if you can't explain that the supply is limited, people think that it is unlimited
1435 2011-03-11 15:25:55 <justmoon> an unlimited supply means a worthless currency
1436 2011-03-11 15:26:08 <luke-jr> justmoon: you don't need to explain why
1437 2011-03-11 15:26:10 <justmoon> we don't talk about blocks, as you say it's irrelevant
1438 2011-03-11 15:26:33 <justmoon> luke-jr: of course you don't have to, there are many styles of advertising
1439 2011-03-11 15:26:40 <luke-jr> just say the system is designed such that there are a total of 21 million BTC, end of story
1440 2011-03-11 15:26:42 <justmoon> our style is that of an explanation video
1441 2011-03-11 15:27:04 <luke-jr> actually, over 2 quintillion might go over better
1442 2011-03-11 15:27:07 <justmoon> luke-jr: so who gets the 21 million? :P
1443 2011-03-11 15:27:15 <x6763> i assumed bitcoin was bound to fail until i learned about blocks and the block chain, etc...i wish i had learned how bitcoin worked a lot sooner than i did
1444 2011-03-11 15:27:20 <luke-jr> justmoon: I doubt most people would ask that
1445 2011-03-11 15:27:34 <justmoon> luke-jr: a lot of people did
1446 2011-03-11 15:27:42 <justmoon> we got feedback from over 100 people for the script
1447 2011-03-11 15:27:45 <x6763> when i saw "p2p currency" i couldn't imagine any way that it could work
1448 2011-03-11 15:27:53 slush has joined
1449 2011-03-11 15:28:00 <justmoon> one of the writers is a professional tv ad writer who's worked for apple, toyota and others
1450 2011-03-11 15:28:05 <x6763> so i ignored bitcoin for quite a while
1451 2011-03-11 15:28:25 <EvanR-work> x6763: especially because similar systems exist that are p2p but based on trust
1452 2011-03-11 15:28:47 <luke-jr> justmoon: hmm
1453 2011-03-11 15:29:01 <luke-jr> justmoon: well, be sure people don't get the impression that *they* can mine
1454 2011-03-11 15:29:01 hazek has joined
1455 2011-03-11 15:29:05 <Avemo> bitcoin is a thing which you ignore at your own peril
1456 2011-03-11 15:29:05 <justmoon> x6763: that's exactly what we got to hear again and again
1457 2011-03-11 15:29:11 <luke-jr> because most people really can't
1458 2011-03-11 15:29:24 <justmoon> luke-jr: yes, miner are visualized as industrial machines to convey that
1459 2011-03-11 15:29:28 <EvanR-work> most people can mine
1460 2011-03-11 15:29:39 <EvanR-work> they just need to buy a video card
1461 2011-03-11 15:29:52 <EvanR-work> its of course better for you and me if they dont
1462 2011-03-11 15:29:59 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
1463 2011-03-11 15:30:14 <Blitzboom> no, itâs not
1464 2011-03-11 15:30:22 <Blitzboom> you want a more secure network
1465 2011-03-11 15:30:27 <EvanR-work> i want more coins
1466 2011-03-11 15:30:50 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: short of a 5970, mining is not practical anymore with just a video card
1467 2011-03-11 15:30:51 <slush> EvanR-work: your coins will be nothing when network will be exploited
1468 2011-03-11 15:30:55 <Blitzboom> ^
1469 2011-03-11 15:31:03 <EvanR-work> i want more coins and then a more secure network, in that order
1470 2011-03-11 15:31:20 <luke-jr> my 5850 is already down to 2 weeks. after 2 weeks, it's more profitable to use a pool. using a pool defeats the whole security point of mining
1471 2011-03-11 15:31:21 <slush> Case of MM show us how weak current network is
1472 2011-03-11 15:31:38 <Blitzboom> yeah ⦠i was surprised by that
1473 2011-03-11 15:31:43 <genjix> justmoon: where's this video?
1474 2011-03-11 15:31:49 <Blitzboom> we need a MUCH higher hashrate
1475 2011-03-11 15:32:01 <EvanR-work> yeah an attacker that doesnt care about profit or energy economy can take us down
1476 2011-03-11 15:32:19 <x6763> EvanR-work: yeah, things like ripple and stuff...trust based, debt based, or whatever...i wasn't expecting it to be like a hard commodity, so i figured it was worthless
1477 2011-03-11 15:32:23 <genjix> i bet you MM is satoshi himself.
1478 2011-03-11 15:32:32 <slush> unfortunately we need higher btc price to attach more miners. With rising difficulty and same price, it is not (so much) worth for common people
1479 2011-03-11 15:32:41 <justmoon> genjix: it's currently in the works, see http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=697.240
1480 2011-03-11 15:32:41 <slush> as it become unprofitable even with 5970
1481 2011-03-11 15:32:49 <Blitzboom> slush: meaning we need more people
1482 2011-03-11 15:32:56 <Blitzboom> meaning we need more press coverage and advertisment
1483 2011-03-11 15:33:05 <EvanR-work> more difficulty... doesnt mean for $ ;)
1484 2011-03-11 15:33:10 <EvanR-work> more $
1485 2011-03-11 15:33:10 <slush> Blitzboom: yes, more people, more cards, more hashpower, higher difficulty, same price ==> less miners
1486 2011-03-11 15:33:16 <Blitzboom> no
1487 2011-03-11 15:33:18 <Blitzboom> more investors
1488 2011-03-11 15:33:28 <Aciid> http://www.richsoil.com/electric-heat.jsp
1489 2011-03-11 15:33:54 <sipa> slush: how so?
1490 2011-03-11 15:34:00 <EvanR-work> Aciid: lol
1491 2011-03-11 15:34:00 <luke-jr> less miners => less hashpower, lower difficulty
1492 2011-03-11 15:34:08 <justmoon> slush: the more money use to buy bitcoins the bigger the market for mining will be, whether profit margins for individual miners will be larger or smaller is a separate issue
1493 2011-03-11 15:34:10 <luke-jr> less hashpower, lower difficulty => more miners
1494 2011-03-11 15:34:10 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 630000
1495 2011-03-11 15:34:12 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 630000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 8.31656194133 BTC per day and 0.346523414222 BTC per hour.
1496 2011-03-11 15:34:51 <x6763> justmoon: i think it would be beneficial to have something in the video that explains the security of the system and limited money supply...i have no idea what the best way to explain that to normal non-technical people is, though
1497 2011-03-11 15:34:53 <Blitzboom> fact: we have too little demand for bitcoins at this point
1498 2011-03-11 15:35:13 <sipa> 8.31 BTC/day = 7.5 USD/day; 300W = 7.2kWh/day = 1-2 USD/day
1499 2011-03-11 15:35:18 <Blitzboom> we need to get some media attention
1500 2011-03-11 15:35:21 <EvanR-work> Aciid: i did this. i disable the heating permanently and just lived in the room with the miner
1501 2011-03-11 15:35:24 <Avemo> disapointed miners quickly turn into bitcoin developers merchants and consumers, so bring on all the new miners I say
1502 2011-03-11 15:35:25 <justmoon> x6763: it's both in there and yes, those two things were among our top priorities
1503 2011-03-11 15:35:35 <x6763> justmoon: excellent
1504 2011-03-11 15:36:20 <bxc> so what is bitcoind doing the whole time that makes it use a few percent CPU?
1505 2011-03-11 15:36:38 <sipa> listening for incoming transactions and blocks
1506 2011-03-11 15:36:39 <EvanR-work> justmoon: ya. influx of $ is one thing, goods and services for BTC is another
1507 2011-03-11 15:36:44 <sipa> and when those arrive, verify them
1508 2011-03-11 15:37:04 <bxc> so there's one block every 6 mins or so?
1509 2011-03-11 15:37:08 <Aciid> EvanR-work: wow
1510 2011-03-11 15:37:29 <EvanR-work> Aciid: i saved a lot of money
1511 2011-03-11 15:37:42 <justmoon> EvanR-work: I've used no heating due to servers long before bitcoin came along :D
1512 2011-03-11 15:37:49 <Aciid> EvanR-work: did the air feel any stale/stuffy?
1513 2011-03-11 15:38:02 <Aciid> I mean , was it a condition of air that you could invite guests?
1514 2011-03-11 15:38:10 <justmoon> depends on how cold your part of the world is
1515 2011-03-11 15:38:12 <EvanR-work> no, and neither is my apartment
1516 2011-03-11 15:38:26 <justmoon> lol, again same here :D
1517 2011-03-11 15:38:31 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: so long as resources require $, influx of $ is necessary to grow goods/services
1518 2011-03-11 15:38:39 <EvanR-work> i do not have comparative advantage in hospitality
1519 2011-03-11 15:38:49 <luke-jr> bxc: every 10 mins
1520 2011-03-11 15:38:52 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: you need both
1521 2011-03-11 15:38:56 <EvanR-work> just $ isnt enough
1522 2011-03-11 15:39:02 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: enough $ encourages more merchants
1523 2011-03-11 15:39:10 <justmoon> EvanR-work, luke-jr: chicken and egg
1524 2011-03-11 15:39:19 <EvanR-work> venture capital is the answer
1525 2011-03-11 15:39:31 <bxc> so whats needing CPU in between that?
1526 2011-03-11 15:39:38 <EvanR-work> whether $ or BTC
1527 2011-03-11 15:39:45 <EvanR-work> you can move the world with enough BTC
1528 2011-03-11 15:39:51 <bxc> throwing transactions around?
1529 2011-03-11 15:40:04 <EvanR-work> hashing
1530 2011-03-11 15:40:28 <EvanR-work> bitcoin is a game where people roll a d100000000000000 and try to get a 1
1531 2011-03-11 15:40:38 <EvanR-work> over and over
1532 2011-03-11 15:40:46 <bxc> distinct from mining?
1533 2011-03-11 15:40:51 <EvanR-work> thats mining
1534 2011-03-11 15:40:55 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
1535 2011-03-11 15:40:56 <gribble> 76193.9710474
1536 2011-03-11 15:41:05 <luke-jr> bxc: transactions
1537 2011-03-11 15:41:10 <bxc> so this install shouldn't be mining
1538 2011-03-11 15:41:15 <sipa> a d327255607325236, actually
1539 2011-03-11 15:41:21 <luke-jr> bxc: #bitcoin-watch
1540 2011-03-11 15:41:24 <EvanR-work> heh
1541 2011-03-11 15:41:32 <Avemo> ;;bc,estimate
1542 2011-03-11 15:41:33 <gribble> 66435.18376438
1543 2011-03-11 15:41:41 <x6763> mining would use all available cpu, not just a few percent...i have no idea what it's doing...mine's using 1-2%
1544 2011-03-11 15:41:47 <bxc> right
1545 2011-03-11 15:41:56 <luke-jr> it's also wx, so probably inefficient
1546 2011-03-11 15:41:58 <bxc> 2% is a lot of CPU for something doing "something every 10 mins"
1547 2011-03-11 15:42:17 <EvanR-work> its relaying transactions
1548 2011-03-11 15:42:21 <EvanR-work> people are spending all the time
1549 2011-03-11 15:42:33 <x6763> yeah, it would be communicating with other nodes and verifying transactions at it receives them
1550 2011-03-11 15:42:45 <luke-jr> actually, bitcoind itself is wasting a lot of CPU time
1551 2011-03-11 15:42:46 <EvanR-work> different kind of verify
1552 2011-03-11 15:42:58 <EvanR-work> not signing, but checking against the block chain
1553 2011-03-11 15:42:59 <x6763> you can watch the log with tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
1554 2011-03-11 15:43:08 <luke-jr> it's got a thread sitting there and calling time(2) like 50 times every 50ms
1555 2011-03-11 15:43:18 hendi has joined
1556 2011-03-11 15:43:18 hendi has quit (Changing host)
1557 2011-03-11 15:43:18 hendi has joined
1558 2011-03-11 15:43:18 <bxc> wtf
1559 2011-03-11 15:43:22 <EvanR-work> yeah, fairly crap
1560 2011-03-11 15:43:25 <EvanR-work> someone write a new client
1561 2011-03-11 15:43:37 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: many in progress
1562 2011-03-11 15:43:50 <luke-jr> I hope to help out with the Perl node and wallet ;)
1563 2011-03-11 15:43:55 <Avemo> tail -n 10000000 -f debug.log | grep generated
1564 2011-03-11 15:43:59 <x6763> mine's getting close to being finished...just finished up the block verification last night
1565 2011-03-11 15:44:01 <Avemo> is what I use
1566 2011-03-11 15:44:14 <x6763> i have no interface, though...except the clojure repl
1567 2011-03-11 15:44:44 <luke-jr> x6763: what is yours?
1568 2011-03-11 15:45:00 <luke-jr> what language and componetn?
1569 2011-03-11 15:45:14 <x6763> a bitcoin client written in Clojure
1570 2011-03-11 15:45:18 sabalaba has joined
1571 2011-03-11 15:45:31 <luke-jr> x6763: what part?
1572 2011-03-11 15:45:38 <luke-jr> a "client" has 4 parts
1573 2011-03-11 15:45:55 <luke-jr> Node, Wallet, User Interface, and (possibly) Miner
1574 2011-03-11 15:46:02 <x6763> node and wallet
1575 2011-03-11 15:46:15 <luke-jr> x6763: should split that up :P
1576 2011-03-11 15:46:21 <luke-jr> maybe
1577 2011-03-11 15:46:45 <luke-jr> node+wallet is a fair combination I suppose
1578 2011-03-11 15:46:47 agorist has joined
1579 2011-03-11 15:47:10 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
1580 2011-03-11 15:47:11 <x6763> wallet's kind of useless without a node, and a node is nothing but a relay point if it has no wallet and doesn't mine
1581 2011-03-11 15:47:19 <x6763> so i was just kind of doing them together
1582 2011-03-11 15:47:22 <luke-jr> x6763: exactly.
1583 2011-03-11 15:47:40 <luke-jr> you need both to use bitcoin, but not necessarily together
1584 2011-03-11 15:47:49 <x6763> but the wallet is only a very small piece of all of this and will be easy to keep separate
1585 2011-03-11 15:48:00 <x6763> or separate later
1586 2011-03-11 15:48:08 <luke-jr> for example, you don't want a wallet on a cellphone to be acting as a node
1587 2011-03-11 15:49:08 <luke-jr> and you might only want to run your wallet when you're using it. when you're not buying/selling, you can shut it down (leaving only encrypted wallet data), and let the node keep going securely
1588 2011-03-11 15:50:15 * luke-jr envisions nodes being run on SOHO routers, while wallets run on desktop PCs or plug servers
1589 2011-03-11 15:50:17 <bxc> so there's one transaction every minute or so
1590 2011-03-11 15:50:19 <bxc> ?
1591 2011-03-11 15:50:24 <luke-jr> bxc: varies greatly
1592 2011-03-11 15:50:45 <sipa> currently, on average more than one per minute i think
1593 2011-03-11 15:51:01 <[Tycho]> Fires. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/foxtokimekitonight
1594 2011-03-11 15:51:25 <x6763> luke-jr: yeah, there's lots of possible ways people might want to handle their wallet and run their peer
1595 2011-03-11 15:51:54 <luke-jr> x6763: that's why keeping them separate, at least optionally, is a good idea ;)
1596 2011-03-11 15:52:21 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1597 2011-03-11 15:52:28 <luke-jr> I suppose any peer+wallet can be turned into a wallet-only by configuring it to connect to only a single specified peer
1598 2011-03-11 15:53:47 <bxc> just like ~1 tx per minute shouldn't be using ~1% cpu
1599 2011-03-11 15:53:55 <bxc> seems nuts
1600 2011-03-11 15:54:57 <luke-jr> bxc: it isn't.
1601 2011-03-11 15:55:09 <luke-jr> bxc: bitcoind/wxbitcoin is poorly coded in some areas
1602 2011-03-11 15:55:21 <bxc> ok
1603 2011-03-11 15:55:24 <bxc> so there's some hope.
1604 2011-03-11 15:55:25 <bxc> ;)
1605 2011-03-11 15:55:45 <luke-jr> weird
1606 2011-03-11 15:55:51 <luke-jr> it's creating/exiting threads many times per sec
1607 2011-03-11 15:56:05 <luke-jr> oh, maybe because I have a miner using getwork
1608 2011-03-11 15:56:13 <EvanR-work> which is inefficient with pthreads and similar
1609 2011-03-11 15:56:19 MartianW has joined
1610 2011-03-11 15:56:42 <EvanR-work> not even nodejs has a good model
1611 2011-03-11 15:57:28 <nanotube> ;;dice 1d327255607325236
1612 2011-03-11 15:57:28 <gribble> Error: Dice can't have more than 100 sides.
1613 2011-03-11 15:57:30 <nanotube> aw
1614 2011-03-11 15:57:47 <EvanR-work> rofl
1615 2011-03-11 15:57:57 <bxc> because then they become spheres?
1616 2011-03-11 15:58:06 <EvanR-work> no
1617 2011-03-11 15:59:48 Syke__ has joined
1618 2011-03-11 16:00:01 <EvanR-work> x6763: dynamic typing yay ;)
1619 2011-03-11 16:01:41 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1620 2011-03-11 16:02:41 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1621 2011-03-11 16:03:29 Syke_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1622 2011-03-11 16:09:19 <xelister> ;;dice 1d100
1623 2011-03-11 16:09:19 <gribble> 98
1624 2011-03-11 16:09:24 <xelister> wow almost 100.
1625 2011-03-11 16:09:50 <xelister> If someone throws 100 then I pay you 100 BTC. It takes 1 BTC to play. Anyone interested - poke m first ;)
1626 2011-03-11 16:09:57 <xelister> nanotube: wanna chance to win 100btc? --^ ;)
1627 2011-03-11 16:10:18 <nanotube> xelister: haha cute
1628 2011-03-11 16:10:32 <Avemo> is it starting from 0?
1629 2011-03-11 16:10:42 <nanotube> ;;dice 1d1
1630 2011-03-11 16:10:42 <gribble> Error: Dice can't have fewer than 3 sides.
1631 2011-03-11 16:10:44 <nanotube> hehe
1632 2011-03-11 16:10:46 <nanotube> ;;dice 1d3
1633 2011-03-11 16:10:46 <gribble> 3
1634 2011-03-11 16:10:47 <nanotube> ;;dice 1d3
1635 2011-03-11 16:10:48 <gribble> 1
1636 2011-03-11 16:10:48 <xelister> ;;dice 1d3
1637 2011-03-11 16:10:49 <nanotube> ;;dice 1d3
1638 2011-03-11 16:10:49 <gribble> 1
1639 2011-03-11 16:10:50 <xelister> ;;dice 1d3
1640 2011-03-11 16:10:50 <gribble> 2
1641 2011-03-11 16:10:50 <nanotube> ;;dice 1d3
1642 2011-03-11 16:10:51 <gribble> 1
1643 2011-03-11 16:10:51 <xelister> ;;dice 1d3
1644 2011-03-11 16:10:52 <gribble> 3
1645 2011-03-11 16:10:53 <gribble> 3
1646 2011-03-11 16:10:57 <nanotube> Avemo: starting from 1
1647 2011-03-11 16:11:01 <Avemo> i see
1648 2011-03-11 16:11:03 <xelister> as it should
1649 2011-03-11 16:11:12 <xelister> so who is playing? ;)
1650 2011-03-11 16:11:13 <nanotube> hey, in computer dice, you never know :)
1651 2011-03-11 16:11:19 <xelister> C dice ;)
1652 2011-03-11 16:11:26 <Avemo> but there is no edge for me in this game
1653 2011-03-11 16:11:32 <xelister> 1Nh2LLVSMR8GczhkjFh68GhGYf6uz3ampd
1654 2011-03-11 16:11:33 <Avemo> so I pass
1655 2011-03-11 16:11:40 <xelister> Avemo: "no edge" ?
1656 2011-03-11 16:11:59 <xelister> I will play only 1 times. nanotube taking it? ;)
1657 2011-03-11 16:12:08 <xelister> 2 times
1658 2011-03-11 16:12:53 <Avemo> edge - positive expectation of a win
1659 2011-03-11 16:13:33 <xelister> Avemo: ok, you will get 102 if won. Then long term expected earning is over 51% for you
1660 2011-03-11 16:13:55 <Avemo> no it's 2%
1661 2011-03-11 16:14:24 <Avemo> to small for me to bother and I would need a few hundred rounds, preferably automated :)
1662 2011-03-11 16:15:58 <Avemo> m8 I used to be a professional "risk manager" i.e. options traders
1663 2011-03-11 16:16:26 dabron has joined
1664 2011-03-11 16:16:34 <luke-jr> ;;dice 1d100
1665 2011-03-11 16:16:34 <gribble> 4
1666 2011-03-11 16:16:54 <luke-jr> ;;dice 1d100
1667 2011-03-11 16:16:55 <gribble> 61
1668 2011-03-11 16:16:56 <luke-jr> ;;dice 1d100
1669 2011-03-11 16:16:57 <gribble> 61
1670 2011-03-11 16:16:58 <luke-jr> ;;dice 1d100
1671 2011-03-11 16:16:58 <gribble> 31
1672 2011-03-11 16:16:59 <luke-jr> ;;dice 1d100
1673 2011-03-11 16:17:00 <gribble> 27
1674 2011-03-11 16:17:07 <luke-jr> xelister: ok, I'm ready to play.
1675 2011-03-11 16:17:18 <luke-jr> xelister: where do I send 1 BTC?
1676 2011-03-11 16:18:03 <Avemo> how about 20 times this, 102 for a win 1 for a loss
1677 2011-03-11 16:18:08 <Avemo> ;;dice 50d100
1678 2011-03-11 16:18:09 <gribble> 57, 75, 97, 18, 3, 85, 87, 39, 34, 52, 70, 88, 83, 79, 58, 64, 4, 49, 91, 18, 51, 9, 52, 97, 50, 36, 56, 48, 56, 22, 45, 62, 7, 88, 68, 63, 9, 65, 76, 85, 76, 57, 24, 52, 42, 23, 11, 17, 69, and 90
1679 2011-03-11 16:18:57 <Blitzboom> ;;dice 100d100
1680 2011-03-11 16:18:57 <gribble> 76, 77, 38, 35, 99, 30, 90, 48, 80, 58, 98, 100, 99, 20, 9, 9, 24, 14, 92, 67, 68, 27, 28, 39, 6, 100, 87, 53, 77, 23, 96, 91, 25, 31, 96, 27, 95, 38, 65, 33, 92, 89, 15, 25, 82, 99, 12, 50, 65, 6, 3, 92, 50, 59, 67, 34, 69, 88, 40, 99, 19, 23, 51, 39, 46, 1, 31, 98, 64, 74, 93, 42, 67, 97, 34, 5, 99, 48, 54, 45, 41, 55, 55, 42, 53, 65, 93, 86, 78, 15, 11, 36, 95, 61, 51, 15, 67, 21, 74, (1 more message)
1681 2011-03-11 16:18:57 <nanotube> xelister: according to the poisson approximation... 36% chance of getting no hits in 100 rolls. so 64% chance of getting at least 1 :)
1682 2011-03-11 16:19:03 <Blitzboom> ;;more
1683 2011-03-11 16:19:03 <gribble> and 18
1684 2011-03-11 16:19:11 <xelister> luke-jr: Im here
1685 2011-03-11 16:19:19 <xelister> luke-jr: 1Nh2LLVSMR8GczhkjFh68GhGYf6uz3ampd
1686 2011-03-11 16:19:20 <Blitzboom> heh, i wouldâve won
1687 2011-03-11 16:19:24 <xelister> I hope noone reprogramed the bot lol
1688 2011-03-11 16:19:41 <nanotube> Blitzboom: heh yep 2 100s in your 100d100 roll :)
1689 2011-03-11 16:19:43 <luke-jr> xelister: sent.
1690 2011-03-11 16:19:51 <xelister> luke-jr: roll the dice, like its 1999
1691 2011-03-11 16:19:51 <justmoon> xelister: i'd get suspicious if nano suddenly wants to bet :)
1692 2011-03-11 16:19:59 <Blitzboom> hahah
1693 2011-03-11 16:20:04 <nanotube> haha
1694 2011-03-11 16:20:12 <Avemo> lol
1695 2011-03-11 16:20:22 * nanotube reprograms dice command to throw 100s if nick=='nanotube' ....
1696 2011-03-11 16:20:23 <nanotube> hehe
1697 2011-03-11 16:20:28 <luke-jr> xelister: wait for a confirmation :P
1698 2011-03-11 16:20:40 emanon has joined
1699 2011-03-11 16:20:57 <xelister> luke-jr: nah, I see it in clined, fine for me ;)
1700 2011-03-11 16:21:40 emanon is now known as eao
1701 2011-03-11 16:22:05 <xelister> luke-jr: you are aliasing the command :>
1702 2011-03-11 16:22:19 <xelister> [17:11] <xelister> help dice
1703 2011-03-11 16:22:21 <xelister> [17:11] <gribble> (dice <dice>d<sides>) -- Rolls a die with <sides> number of sides <dice> times. For example, 2d6 will roll 2 six-sided dice; 10d10 will roll 10 ten-sided dice.
1704 2011-03-11 16:22:26 <xelister> [17:12] <xelister> help dice
1705 2011-03-11 16:22:27 <xelister> [17:12] <gribble> Error: That command exists in the Alias and Games plugins. Please specify exactly which plugin command you want help with.
1706 2011-03-11 16:22:29 <xelister> luke-jr: nice try :>
1707 2011-03-11 16:22:46 <xelister> ;;help dice
1708 2011-03-11 16:22:46 <gribble> (dice <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo 100".
1709 2011-03-11 16:22:53 <luke-jr> ;;dice 1d100
1710 2011-03-11 16:22:54 <gribble> 100
1711 2011-03-11 16:22:57 <xelister> ;;help dice
1712 2011-03-11 16:22:58 <gribble> (dice <dice>d<sides>) -- Rolls a die with <sides> number of sides <dice> times. For example, 2d6 will roll 2 six-sided dice; 10d10 will roll 10 ten-sided dice.
1713 2011-03-11 16:23:03 <Blitzboom> ;;dice 1d100
1714 2011-03-11 16:23:03 <gribble> 2
1715 2011-03-11 16:23:03 <xelister> yes yes luke-jr nice try ;)
1716 2011-03-11 16:23:10 <x6763> haha
1717 2011-03-11 16:23:14 <xelister> lawsome
1718 2011-03-11 16:23:15 <luke-jr> xelister: 102 BTC.
1719 2011-03-11 16:23:29 <xelister> luke-jr: lol ;)
1720 2011-03-11 16:23:32 <luke-jr> [11:10:24] <xelister> I hope noone reprogramed the bot lol <-- sez it's legit
1721 2011-03-11 16:24:12 <xelister> If we say we flip a coin, we do not mean bring your own both-sides-same coind and throw it =)
1722 2011-03-11 16:24:25 <luke-jr> [11:10:24] <xelister> I hope noone reprogramed the bot lol <-- sez it's legit
1723 2011-03-11 16:25:17 <luke-jr> xelister: how about we flip a coin for the 102 BTC then? if heads, I get it like I should; if tails, you get it
1724 2011-03-11 16:25:20 * xelister needs a :seriously: icon from FFFFUUUU
1725 2011-03-11 16:26:17 <luke-jr> xelister: how am I going to cover my costs of paying nanotube to change dice cmd? -.-
1726 2011-03-11 16:26:35 <luke-jr> that wasn't cheap, ya know
1727 2011-03-11 16:28:45 <xelister> heh :}
1728 2011-03-11 16:29:01 <xelister> luke-jr: I can give you back 0.5 BTC for the fun value ;)
1729 2011-03-11 16:29:08 <nanotube> xelister: just for lulz. :) good job on detecting the cheat. ;)
1730 2011-03-11 16:29:25 <xelister> like a boss ;)
1731 2011-03-11 16:29:27 <luke-jr> xelister: it cost 35 BTC to rig the bot. I want my 102 BTC
1732 2011-03-11 16:29:30 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1733 2011-03-11 16:29:55 <xelister> luke-jr: yeah I will pay you the 102 BTC, "I didnt say when exactly" =) 2250 seems like a nice year
1734 2011-03-11 16:30:02 <luke-jr> hmm
1735 2011-03-11 16:30:07 <luke-jr> ;;help dice
1736 2011-03-11 16:30:08 <gribble> (dice <dice>d<sides>) -- Rolls a die with <sides> number of sides <dice> times. For example, 2d6 will roll 2 six-sided dice; 10d10 will roll 10 ten-sided dice.
1737 2011-03-11 16:30:11 <luke-jr> xelister: now if I get it fairly?
1738 2011-03-11 16:30:15 <xelister> and if we do use normal assumptions law system, then bet was riged =)
1739 2011-03-11 16:30:38 <luke-jr> xelister: now if I get it fairly?
1740 2011-03-11 16:30:49 <x6763> your "coin" to "flip" could be whether or not the nonce in the next block (113148) is an odd or even number
1741 2011-03-11 16:31:01 <xelister> luke-jr: for 0.5 BTC more to same address we can play again for say 50 BTC win,
1742 2011-03-11 16:31:08 <xelister> as x6763 said (I was going to same similar thing)
1743 2011-03-11 16:31:11 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
1744 2011-03-11 16:31:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113147 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1764 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66103.88721295
1745 2011-03-11 16:31:13 <luke-jr> xelister: now you're cheating
1746 2011-03-11 16:31:19 <luke-jr> xelister: I either won, or didn't play yet.
1747 2011-03-11 16:32:57 <xelister> if you want and pay to same address 1 BTC (again), then you get 102 BTC if block number 113149 will have nounce ending with 00 (like nounce=15600 etc, in 10-th digital system etc) (not tonal or smth ;) and on victory loot is payed in 1 hour
1748 2011-03-11 16:33:06 <xelister> assuming
1749 2011-03-11 16:33:16 <xelister> you pay beofre this block is yet generate
1750 2011-03-11 16:33:41 <luke-jr> xelister: why would I bet with you again when you're a scammer and didn't follow through on the first bet?
1751 2011-03-11 16:33:57 <xelister> btw this bet could be theoretically rigged, but would cost on avg. at least 5000 BTC to rig it
1752 2011-03-11 16:34:10 <nanotube> xelister: it's true that technically he didn't play yet. so he should get a fair roll in.
1753 2011-03-11 16:34:16 <luke-jr> xelister: unless I already have the solution and just haven't submitted it
1754 2011-03-11 16:34:27 <xelister> ah you mean that you did not yet play
1755 2011-03-11 16:34:34 <xelister> hm this is correct
1756 2011-03-11 16:34:48 <nanotube> xelister: we tried to mess with you with the rigged dice command :) but he didn't get a fair roll yet.
1757 2011-03-11 16:34:55 <BlueMatt> wooooo successful UPnP port mapping :)
1758 2011-03-11 16:35:12 <xelister> nanotube: can you lock this command ;) now Im not sure about possiblity to check its fairness
1759 2011-03-11 16:35:43 <nanotube> xelister: i'm the only one that can add aliases and change defaultplugins
1760 2011-03-11 16:35:43 <BlueMatt> now I just need to make some parameters and such and send a pull request :)
1761 2011-03-11 16:35:57 <nanotube> xelister: and you have my word that i will not do this for his next roll
1762 2011-03-11 16:36:01 <xelister> ok luke-jr, we can roll a fair dice, using block 113150 last 2 digits as the dice (it should be ...00 as above), want? or IO can give back 1 btc if you dont want =)
1763 2011-03-11 16:36:22 <x6763> ;;bc,stats
1764 2011-03-11 16:36:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113149 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1762 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65809.13779630
1765 2011-03-11 16:36:26 <xelister> nanotube: yeah but you can do like alias ... ; dice ; unalias ... ;) also using nounce is cooler
1766 2011-03-11 16:36:42 <nanotube> nanotube: you == me, and i already said i won't do it.
1767 2011-03-11 16:36:57 <luke-jr> xelister: ok
1768 2011-03-11 16:36:59 <nanotube> but yea, using nonce is cool too
1769 2011-03-11 16:37:00 <xelister> actually nounce in fact is a nice, public, fairly secure (5000 BTC to have shoot at rigging 2 digits) generator
1770 2011-03-11 16:37:28 <luke-jr> xelister: your 5000 BTC rig cost is wrong
1771 2011-03-11 16:37:34 <xelister> you could attack by making blocks and throwing away waiting to make correct block...
1772 2011-03-11 16:37:36 dirtyfilthy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1773 2011-03-11 16:37:49 <xelister> luke-jr: well right.. it is actually... hmm hard to calculat
1774 2011-03-11 16:38:00 <luke-jr> xelister: if you let me pick the last 2 digits, I could just hold back any solution
1775 2011-03-11 16:38:01 dirtyfilthy has joined
1776 2011-03-11 16:38:17 <xelister> it would cost *more* then 50 BTC to have 1/100 instead 2/100 chance to have ....00
1777 2011-03-11 16:38:38 <xelister> (throw away the block if you make it, and then hope to make fast enough another block this time 'correct')
1778 2011-03-11 16:38:44 <x6763> someone could set the nonce, and only change the extra nonce, though that cost someone a lot more on block generation, since they'd have to recalculate the merkle root for each block hash
1779 2011-03-11 16:39:16 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
1780 2011-03-11 16:39:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113149 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1762 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65809.13779630
1781 2011-03-11 16:39:23 <luke-jr> x6763: or they could just replace ++i with i+=100
1782 2011-03-11 16:39:24 * xelister holds fingers
1783 2011-03-11 16:39:25 <Avemo> someone could simply increment nonce by 2
1784 2011-03-11 16:39:34 <x6763> luke-jr: true, that would work better
1785 2011-03-11 16:39:40 <xelister> wait, Avemo is correct
1786 2011-03-11 16:39:52 <luke-jr> ?
1787 2011-03-11 16:40:09 <Avemo> luke-jr too
1788 2011-03-11 16:40:10 <xelister> e.g. ArtForz could easly generate many such blocks with given nounce
1789 2011-03-11 16:40:18 <luke-jr> sure
1790 2011-03-11 16:40:21 <xelister> right. so it fact it can be easly rigged
1791 2011-03-11 16:40:26 <luke-jr> not for me
1792 2011-03-11 16:40:31 <xelister> better would be to instead bet on last part of hash of the block
1793 2011-03-11 16:40:33 <luke-jr> I only get 1 block every 2 weeks :P
1794 2011-03-11 16:40:40 <xelister> I said nonce since easy to check =)
1795 2011-03-11 16:40:46 <x6763> xelister: yeah, i think that would be better
1796 2011-03-11 16:40:50 <xelister> yeap
1797 2011-03-11 16:40:54 BitterTea has joined
1798 2011-03-11 16:40:55 <luke-jr> last 2 digits of hash would be 1/256
1799 2011-03-11 16:40:57 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
1800 2011-03-11 16:40:57 BitterTea has joined
1801 2011-03-11 16:41:06 <Avemo> no eadily, and i though that Art has around 30 Ghps, which is not that much really
1802 2011-03-11 16:41:14 <xelister> luke-jr: you could write 256 bit value of hash as 10-base
1803 2011-03-11 16:41:23 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
1804 2011-03-11 16:41:24 <luke-jr> true
1805 2011-03-11 16:41:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113149 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1762 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65809.13779630
1806 2011-03-11 16:41:31 * xelister holds finger more
1807 2011-03-11 16:42:17 <xelister> heeey nanotube luke-jr you would informed me that the bet was rigged 1st time? :>
1808 2011-03-11 16:42:32 <luke-jr> xelister: ?
1809 2011-03-11 16:42:37 <Avemo> you can do not nonce but sha256(block) and take any subset of hex representation for example
1810 2011-03-11 16:42:53 <luke-jr> we have a block
1811 2011-03-11 16:42:59 <nanotube> xelister: dunno about luke-jr but i would have. ;)
1812 2011-03-11 16:43:00 <xelister> !!
1813 2011-03-11 16:43:03 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
1814 2011-03-11 16:43:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113150 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1761 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 27 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65936.43796920
1815 2011-03-11 16:43:08 <xelister> and the block is....
1816 2011-03-11 16:43:18 <x6763> 000000000000a4996384f0ed9a2245c4d38e5891cc911f16d3a2eaac1a820837
1817 2011-03-11 16:43:31 <xelister> Nonce?: 535023465
1818 2011-03-11 16:43:33 <xelister> uff.
1819 2011-03-11 16:43:33 <x6763> or 0000000000008ece5f456e7c2f3eb0045d6ec169da558d8601f00ade0af92fa6
1820 2011-03-11 16:43:37 <x6763> ;;bc,stats
1821 2011-03-11 16:43:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113150 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1761 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 27 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65936.43796920
1822 2011-03-11 16:43:44 <xelister> http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000008ece5f456e7c2f3eb0045d6ec169da558d8601f00ade0af92fa6
1823 2011-03-11 16:44:21 <xelister> luke-jr: lol I can give you 0.5 BTC for funny idea ;)
1824 2011-03-11 16:44:28 <luke-jr> :p
1825 2011-03-11 16:44:33 <luke-jr> 1PLpuszAdHd7JKqzYcLhNcZQ3LyVv6xKgj
1826 2011-03-11 16:44:38 <xelister> >_>
1827 2011-03-11 16:44:56 BitterTea has quit (Client Quit)
1828 2011-03-11 16:45:01 <xelister> ~/bitcoind sendtoaddress 1PLpuszAdHd7JKqzYcLhNcZQ3LyVv6xKgj 0.5 "lol irc"
1829 2011-03-11 16:45:03 <xelister> 4efe79784a1f04131f8c1d7329ac940c38dc029d789bcd67eaf12e104a17f02d
1830 2011-03-11 16:45:06 <xelister> btw what is that hash outputed
1831 2011-03-11 16:45:11 <luke-jr> txid
1832 2011-03-11 16:45:41 <xelister> does it work like a pubkey, e.g. is that key itselve a proof that I did said payment (although ofc. not proving wether I did or did not double-spend it)?
1833 2011-03-11 16:45:47 <xelister> *pubsign
1834 2011-03-11 16:46:22 <xelister> hm looks to shoort for any kind of detached sign... or?
1835 2011-03-11 16:46:22 <luke-jr> it uniquely identifies the transaction
1836 2011-03-11 16:46:38 <luke-jr> [11:36:10] <ljrbot> TX 4efe79784a1f04131f8c1d7329ac940c38dc029d789bcd67eaf12e104a17f02d: 1PLpuszAdHd7JKqzYcLhNcZQ3LyVv6xKgj 0.50 BTC
1837 2011-03-11 16:46:54 <luke-jr> now I double-spend that 1 BTC I sent yo
1838 2011-03-11 16:46:56 <luke-jr> :D
1839 2011-03-11 16:47:00 <xelister> :O
1840 2011-03-11 16:47:23 <xelister> hmm actually, you can not
1841 2011-03-11 16:47:44 <xelister> you would have to have a huge power (or luck) to regenerate now last 4 blocks
1842 2011-03-11 16:48:18 <luke-jr> :P
1843 2011-03-11 16:48:32 <luke-jr> if it wasn't already 3 I might do it
1844 2011-03-11 16:48:35 <xelister> well you have my permission to try =)
1845 2011-03-11 16:48:36 <luke-jr> just to get in history
1846 2011-03-11 16:48:37 <luke-jr> :P
1847 2011-03-11 16:48:52 <luke-jr> I'd have to write the code to do it
1848 2011-03-11 16:49:13 <luke-jr> actually, it's probably doable if I had directly connected to you, and it had 0 confs
1849 2011-03-11 16:49:23 HarryS is now known as K-Lined
1850 2011-03-11 16:49:34 * xelister looks @ K-Lined
1851 2011-03-11 16:49:46 K-Lined is now known as HarryS
1852 2011-03-11 16:49:46 bk128-Droid has joined
1853 2011-03-11 16:51:54 altamic has joined
1854 2011-03-11 16:51:54 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1855 2011-03-11 16:51:54 altamic has joined
1856 2011-03-11 16:54:38 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
1857 2011-03-11 16:54:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113151 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1760 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65957.70256158
1858 2011-03-11 16:55:51 <Avemo> is next diff going to be in 2 weeks 0 days forever?
1859 2011-03-11 16:56:36 <xelister> x6763: wanna make a coin-flip using our idea on block number 113155? if the (hexa-written) Hash hash last digit (in blockexplorer) 0-8 then I win, if 9-F then you. For any amount between 0.00 and 5.00 just say how much :)
1860 2011-03-11 16:56:45 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,calc 325000
1861 2011-03-11 16:56:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 325000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 week, 4 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes, and 4 seconds
1862 2011-03-11 16:56:48 <xelister> say before 113154 is generated
1863 2011-03-11 16:56:49 <Blitzboom> hmm
1864 2011-03-11 16:56:56 <Blitzboom> maybe i shouldâve gone solo â¦
1865 2011-03-11 16:57:07 <Blitzboom> what do you guys think?
1866 2011-03-11 16:57:12 <Blitzboom> pool or solo? :D
1867 2011-03-11 16:57:21 <x6763> xelister: haha, no thanks, i'll pass
1868 2011-03-11 16:57:32 <Avemo> how many Ghps?
1869 2011-03-11 16:57:34 <xelister> not even 0.05 ? O_o
1870 2011-03-11 16:57:34 <eps1> ;;bc;calc 11027
1871 2011-03-11 16:57:36 <gribble> Error: "bc;calc" is not a valid command.
1872 2011-03-11 16:57:37 <xelister> meh ok :P
1873 2011-03-11 16:57:40 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
1874 2011-03-11 16:57:42 <eps1> ;;bc,calc 11027
1875 2011-03-11 16:57:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11027 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 49 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 40 minutes, and 11 seconds
1876 2011-03-11 16:57:47 <xelister> Blitzboom: go solo like Hans Solo
1877 2011-03-11 16:57:49 <Blitzboom> Avemo: ;;bc,calc 325000
1878 2011-03-11 16:57:55 <Blitzboom> that many
1879 2011-03-11 16:58:02 <Avemo> pool
1880 2011-03-11 16:58:46 <Avemo> I'd say if you do not expect to make at least 2 blocks a week go pool
1881 2011-03-11 16:59:01 <Blitzboom> well, it says average is 1 week 4 days
1882 2011-03-11 16:59:19 <Blitzboom> and i guess the estimate of two weeks will be corrected to less?
1883 2011-03-11 16:59:20 <eps1> yeah but that doesn't guarantee you a block
1884 2011-03-11 16:59:30 <Blitzboom> yeah, itâs risky
1885 2011-03-11 16:59:47 <Blitzboom> ok, iâll continue with the pool for this difficulty
1886 2011-03-11 16:59:53 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
1887 2011-03-11 16:59:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113152 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1759 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66123.22386956
1888 2011-03-11 17:00:08 <Blitzboom> maybe iâll go solo next time
1889 2011-03-11 17:01:16 <Avemo> ls digit of Next Difficulty Estimate: 66123.22386956 is your another random number generator, just agree at what time to run it
1890 2011-03-11 17:01:18 <Blitzboom> i didnât find any blocks in the pool yet, so iâm content with that
1891 2011-03-11 17:01:37 <Avemo> s/ls/last/
1892 2011-03-11 17:01:44 <Blitzboom> hmm
1893 2011-03-11 17:02:36 <Blitzboom> tough choices in bitcoin
1894 2011-03-11 17:02:51 <Blitzboom> the problem is that thereâs no *right* choice
1895 2011-03-11 17:03:18 <Blitzboom> damn probabilities :D
1896 2011-03-11 17:03:39 <Avemo> there is, google 'law of large numbers'
1897 2011-03-11 17:04:23 <Blitzboom> this doesnât apply to bitcoin because the difficulty changes
1898 2011-03-11 17:04:39 <Blitzboom> if you donât get a block this week, you get nothing. in the pool, you get something everytime
1899 2011-03-11 17:05:11 <Avemo> it does apply if you have large enough hashing power
1900 2011-03-11 17:05:23 <Blitzboom> yes, but not for me with a 5870
1901 2011-03-11 17:05:35 <Blitzboom> variance is too high
1902 2011-03-11 17:05:58 <Avemo> so it may be does not apply to your mining rig, not bitcoin, right?
1903 2011-03-11 17:06:18 <Avemo> and it is exactly why the suggestion is to use a pool
1904 2011-03-11 17:06:36 <Avemo> to get rid of variance and have it more li biz and less like gambling
1905 2011-03-11 17:06:53 <Blitzboom> yeah, thatâs why iâm using the pool since 56k difficulty
1906 2011-03-11 17:07:20 <Avemo> cool
1907 2011-03-11 17:07:46 <Avemo> I think I used pool untill I had like 6 Ghps, and at much much lower diffs
1908 2011-03-11 17:08:04 <Avemo> but there were no fees than
1909 2011-03-11 17:08:28 <Blitzboom> how much BTC are there in fees now in average?
1910 2011-03-11 17:08:50 <Blitzboom> iâve gotten a 0.25 once when i generated a block
1911 2011-03-11 17:08:59 <Avemo> lately I get on average 0.01 per block maybe 0.02
1912 2011-03-11 17:10:24 <justmoon> do any of you require fees yet?
1913 2011-03-11 17:10:42 <Avemo> I run standard client
1914 2011-03-11 17:10:54 <x6763> justmoon: luke-jr requires a fee on his miner
1915 2011-03-11 17:11:12 <justmoon> x6763: yeah, that sounds like luke :P
1916 2011-03-11 17:11:17 <x6763> lol
1917 2011-03-11 17:11:17 <luke-jr> my fees are low
1918 2011-03-11 17:11:28 <justmoon> how much?
1919 2011-03-11 17:11:32 <x6763> yeah, his fees are low and he supports non-standard transaction scripts and stuff
1920 2011-03-11 17:11:37 <luke-jr> 0.00004096 BTC is the lowest
1921 2011-03-11 17:11:42 <justmoon> oh ok
1922 2011-03-11 17:11:49 <luke-jr> 0.00065536 per 512 bytes, on the high end
1923 2011-03-11 17:12:29 <luke-jr> so if you want to send someone 0.001 BTC today, my fee is lower than anyone else
1924 2011-03-11 17:12:38 <justmoon> gotcha
1925 2011-03-11 17:12:41 <luke-jr> s/today/within the next month/
1926 2011-03-11 17:12:51 <luke-jr> I don't have enough mining power to make a block a day â¹
1927 2011-03-11 17:12:56 <justmoon> :D
1928 2011-03-11 17:13:07 <luke-jr> I should start a pool with my policies
1929 2011-03-11 17:13:32 <justmoon> is there public source code with your policies?
1930 2011-03-11 17:14:11 <Avemo> you can just publish a patch and explain why this is a good policy, some miners/pools could adopt it
1931 2011-03-11 17:14:40 <justmoon> yeah I mean you wrote like two sentences and I'm already convinced your way is better than the official one :)
1932 2011-03-11 17:15:22 <Avemo> I make a fair few blocks a day, and would adopt a policy which I think is better for bitcoin than my current policy
1933 2011-03-11 17:16:43 <luke-jr> justmoon: not sure
1934 2011-03-11 17:16:58 <luke-jr> IMO, someone should setup a repository of policy-only changes
1935 2011-03-11 17:17:30 <Avemo> it ca be as simple as a thread in the forum
1936 2011-03-11 17:17:54 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1937 2011-03-11 17:18:07 <x6763> i think the whole fee thing in the official bitcoin code needs to be revamped, so people can choose the fee they want to pay for each transaction independently (with the obvious option of paying a default fee), and so miners can easily setup complex fee schedules...i don't like this hard coded stuff that's in the client right now
1938 2011-03-11 17:18:51 <x6763> or not-so-easy-to-use fee stuff in the official client
1939 2011-03-11 17:21:42 <justmoon> x6763: I think in the not too distant future most people will use other clients than the "official" one - just like with BitTorrent, 3rd party clients will have more features and serve user's needs better
1940 2011-03-11 17:21:54 <justmoon> users'*
1941 2011-03-11 17:22:00 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/commits/policy
1942 2011-03-11 17:22:06 <bxc> not clear to me how fees should be negotiated
1943 2011-03-11 17:22:06 <Avemo> yep I bet there are quite a few in development right now
1944 2011-03-11 17:22:07 <Blitzboom> thatâs what i imagine, too
1945 2011-03-11 17:22:11 phantomcircuit has joined
1946 2011-03-11 17:22:16 <luke-jr> bxc: there is no way yet AFAIK
1947 2011-03-11 17:22:28 <bxc> perhaps each miner should publish its required fee so that you can compute the probability that your transaction will be accepted in a block
1948 2011-03-11 17:22:40 <bxc> that gives a market in fees
1949 2011-03-11 17:22:53 <bxc> i think
1950 2011-03-11 17:23:03 TDX_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1951 2011-03-11 17:23:07 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1952 2011-03-11 17:23:26 <bxc> you get to choose the (probabilistic) time-till-transaction-accepted balanced against fee
1953 2011-03-11 17:23:31 <bxc> and miners also do
1954 2011-03-11 17:23:44 <x6763> bxc: it's basically the miners just set their minimum fee (though you don't necessarily know it), and you pick the fee you're willing to pay...i imagine services (or the clients themselves) will eventually have features that display the average or lowest fees paid up to the immediate past, so you can make a more informed decision
1955 2011-03-11 17:24:09 <bxc> right
1956 2011-03-11 17:24:21 <justmoon> bxc: they wouldn't even have to. somebody could create a website that looks at statistically how time from first-seen until block inclusion correlates with transaction fee offered
1957 2011-03-11 17:24:22 <cosurgi> tcatm: Can you tell me what is the "List of unconfirmed transactions" ?
1958 2011-03-11 17:24:23 <bxc> publishing of fee structure is what you need for mining, I think, somehow
1959 2011-03-11 17:24:30 <bxc> justmoon: yeah
1960 2011-03-11 17:24:32 <luke-jr> bxc: it needs to be added to the network protocol
1961 2011-03-11 17:24:33 <cosurgi> tcatm: trades?
1962 2011-03-11 17:24:58 <luke-jr> the original client is extremely anti-social
1963 2011-03-11 17:25:07 <bxc> luke-jr: what justmoon doesn't, though, I think
1964 2011-03-11 17:25:13 <luke-jr> it will actively try to STOP any transactions with fees it considers too low
1965 2011-03-11 17:25:22 <bxc> luke-jr: you can do that by external observation
1966 2011-03-11 17:25:23 hendi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1967 2011-03-11 17:25:52 intelliot has joined
1968 2011-03-11 17:25:53 <luke-jr> bxc: not really
1969 2011-03-11 17:26:03 <luke-jr> every node would have to implement that
1970 2011-03-11 17:26:13 <justmoon> luke-jr: see my message above
1971 2011-03-11 17:26:20 <intelliot> hey, is anyone here?
1972 2011-03-11 17:26:21 <Aciid> is the Ati Stream 2.1 significantly faster than 2.3?
1973 2011-03-11 17:26:22 <bxc> luke-jr: I can sit here and see both: i) when a transation is flooded, and ii) when I see block contianing it
1974 2011-03-11 17:26:28 <bxc> intelliot: yes lots of people
1975 2011-03-11 17:26:36 <justmoon> luke-jr: you can see statistically how long it takes for a transaction to be accepted by *some* miner
1976 2011-03-11 17:26:43 <bxc> right
1977 2011-03-11 17:26:46 <justmoon> if there are enough transactions, you'll get a pretty good picture
1978 2011-03-11 17:26:46 <luke-jr> right now, if you try to send a 0.001 BTC tx with only 0.0004096 BTC fee, almost the entire network will oppose it and try to PREVENT it from being included in a block
1979 2011-03-11 17:26:59 <justmoon> yep, and such a site would pick that up
1980 2011-03-11 17:27:00 <Avemo> there are probably less than 10 people control 80% of block generation
1981 2011-03-11 17:27:00 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1982 2011-03-11 17:27:18 <luke-jr> the only way to ACTUALLY do such a tx with me, is to tell your node to connect DIRECTLY to mine
1983 2011-03-11 17:27:31 <justmoon> luke-jr: oooohhh
1984 2011-03-11 17:27:33 <luke-jr> which also means it is impossible to monitor
1985 2011-03-11 17:27:38 <bxc> luke-jr: yeah that sounds ass
1986 2011-03-11 17:27:53 <luke-jr> except that -watch connects to my node, so it gets those still
1987 2011-03-11 17:27:53 <justmoon> yeah, that's weird
1988 2011-03-11 17:28:07 <intelliot> i'm using bitcoin for mac and it's stuck at 70199 blocks
1989 2011-03-11 17:28:18 <luke-jr> I should probably make my node a free-for-all broadcast
1990 2011-03-11 17:28:31 <luke-jr> people who want to send "unacceptable" tx can connect to me to do it
1991 2011-03-11 17:28:41 <luke-jr> and miners who want to accept them, can also connect to me
1992 2011-03-11 17:28:45 <justmoon> intelliot: quit, restart, wait - still stuck?
1993 2011-03-11 17:29:38 <justmoon> what's the policy on extra data included with transactions, do the official nodes accept that?
1994 2011-03-11 17:30:26 <luke-jr> justmoon: no, they actively block those too
1995 2011-03-11 17:31:03 <justmoon> hmhm
1996 2011-03-11 17:31:41 <justmoon> and when you include transactions the other nodes reject, how come they (especially other miners) accept your blocks? are the checks less strict there?
1997 2011-03-11 17:33:04 <Aciid> how do I know which Stream version I'm running?
1998 2011-03-11 17:33:04 <blarzong> its a wonderful day
1999 2011-03-11 17:33:15 <Aciid> I installed 2.1, but how do I know is it working?
2000 2011-03-11 17:33:28 <Aciid> my hashing power just went up tho
2001 2011-03-11 17:33:38 <luke-jr> justmoon: correct
2002 2011-03-11 17:33:41 <intelliot> justmoon: yes
2003 2011-03-11 17:33:59 <justmoon> well, that's something I guess
2004 2011-03-11 17:34:16 Syke__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2005 2011-03-11 17:34:20 <x6763> justmoon: the transactions are valid, it's just that the official code assumes the users want to block certain things (because they might be "spam", plus the official client has much of the transaction scripting disabled for various reasons related to unknown potential security problems or whatever)
2006 2011-03-11 17:34:20 <blarzong> is tx spamming an issue?
2007 2011-03-11 17:34:41 <blarzong> if someone generates a few gigs of tx what would happen
2008 2011-03-11 17:35:07 <justmoon> blarzong: would get rejected unless he also spends a ton in fees
2009 2011-03-11 17:35:11 <justmoon> that's what I gather
2010 2011-03-11 17:35:27 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2011 2011-03-11 17:35:52 <luke-jr> justmoon: no
2012 2011-03-11 17:35:59 <luke-jr> it would clog the gratis limits
2013 2011-03-11 17:36:08 <justmoon> and then get rejected
2014 2011-03-11 17:36:13 <luke-jr> causing any no-fee tx to take hours or days
2015 2011-03-11 17:36:15 <luke-jr> or longer
2016 2011-03-11 17:36:20 <luke-jr> justmoon: tx are never rejected
2017 2011-03-11 17:36:29 <x6763> (unless they're invalid)
2018 2011-03-11 17:36:34 <justmoon> rejected = not passed on
2019 2011-03-11 17:36:43 <luke-jr> ok
2020 2011-03-11 17:36:53 <luke-jr> right now, they are never rejected
2021 2011-03-11 17:37:33 jrabbit has joined
2022 2011-03-11 17:37:54 <intelliot> it looks to me like the Mac client is seriously broken. it's unusable because it never finishes downloading the block chain
2023 2011-03-11 17:37:56 mmarker has joined
2024 2011-03-11 17:38:27 <x6763> intelliot: where does it stop downloading?
2025 2011-03-11 17:38:40 <nanotube> intelliot: it's a known bug in the 20.1 version. try connecting directly to a .19 node maybe...
2026 2011-03-11 17:38:43 <justmoon> x6763: he said block 70199
2027 2011-03-11 17:39:00 <intelliot> how do i connect directly to a .19 node?
2028 2011-03-11 17:39:18 Bosma has joined
2029 2011-03-11 17:39:39 <nanotube> intelliot: here try running 'bitcoin -connect=99.27.237.13'
2030 2011-03-11 17:39:50 <nanotube> that'll connect you to the blockexplorer node, that's currently running .19
2031 2011-03-11 17:40:34 <luke-jr> intelliot: upgrade
2032 2011-03-11 17:40:46 <nanotube> intelliot: if that doesn't work... then you may have to delete your blockdatabase and start from scratch. (don't delete your wallet though!) but see if it works first.
2033 2011-03-11 17:40:51 <intelliot> luke-jr: i'm using the latest version from bitcoin.org
2034 2011-03-11 17:40:52 <nanotube> luke-jr: .2 hasn't been released for mac yet
2035 2011-03-11 17:40:54 <luke-jr> o
2036 2011-03-11 17:41:04 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy <-- thoughts?
2037 2011-03-11 17:41:29 <intelliot> nanotube: can i download the blockdatabase some other way? a web server perhaps?
2038 2011-03-11 17:42:04 <intelliot> even if i did that, would bitcoin stop working the moment the block chain grew by 1 block?
2039 2011-03-11 17:42:12 <nanotube> intelliot: yes, and no.
2040 2011-03-11 17:42:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: good idea
2041 2011-03-11 17:42:21 <nanotube> but first try the -connect approach.
2042 2011-03-11 17:42:34 Syke has joined
2043 2011-03-11 17:42:57 <Avemo> luke-jr: can you run your node on a fixed ip?
2044 2011-03-11 17:43:09 * mmarker looks for genjix
2045 2011-03-11 17:43:17 <intelliot> well, it seems to be working, but ridiculously slowly
2046 2011-03-11 17:43:18 <luke-jr> Avemo: I suppose I could
2047 2011-03-11 17:43:24 <intelliot> 70875 blocks
2048 2011-03-11 17:43:26 <luke-jr> but I wonder on bandwidth
2049 2011-03-11 17:43:47 bk128-Droid has joined
2050 2011-03-11 17:43:55 <Avemo> please do that. I could than include it into my bitseed.bitcon.me.uk DNS record
2051 2011-03-11 17:43:58 <nanotube> intelliot: so you're getting the blocks now? good :)
2052 2011-03-11 17:44:15 <intelliot> yep, just very slowly
2053 2011-03-11 17:45:05 <mmarker> yea, the block download is a little slow I've noticed
2054 2011-03-11 17:45:15 <mmarker> once you're updated, it's a bit better
2055 2011-03-11 17:45:17 <jgarzik> intelliot: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/block-db-94000.tar.bz2
2056 2011-03-11 17:45:19 <nanotube> hacim: looks like you should expect about 4.2btc per day.
2057 2011-03-11 17:45:39 <BlueMatt> is there a variable which indicates whether the client was compiled as gui or not? or should I just use #ifdef?
2058 2011-03-11 17:45:41 <intelliot> thanks!
2059 2011-03-11 17:45:41 <mmarker> jgarzik: is there a safe way to make those dumps? Or just "stop bitcoind, tar and bzip"?
2060 2011-03-11 17:45:45 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2061 2011-03-11 17:45:51 <hacim> nanotube: yeah, thats getting towards not worth bothering
2062 2011-03-11 17:45:56 <jgarzik> Avemo: djbdns would be perfect for this task, as its input file cannot be more simple: +foo.example.com:1.2.3.4
2063 2011-03-11 17:45:57 phantomcircuit has joined
2064 2011-03-11 17:46:01 <jgarzik> mmarker: pretty much
2065 2011-03-11 17:46:06 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2066 2011-03-11 17:46:13 <justmoon> Avemo: you can add 109.75.176.226 if you want, it's a VPS at AutoVPS that I rent and it has a permanent bitcoin node on it
2067 2011-03-11 17:46:15 <jgarzik> that's trivial for any script to generate, and the database can be updated without stopping tinydns
2068 2011-03-11 17:46:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: doesn't BIND support live updating?
2069 2011-03-11 17:46:17 phantomcircuit has joined
2070 2011-03-11 17:46:19 <nanotube> hacim: well depends on the degree of bother. usually mining is just 'set it and forget it'...
2071 2011-03-11 17:46:20 <hacim> nanotube: still profitable, but at some point, I'm better off not having the noise :)
2072 2011-03-11 17:46:27 <bk128-Droid> Do you need to stop Bitcoin to backup your wallet too?
2073 2011-03-11 17:46:29 <justmoon> does the official client accept IP transactions by default?
2074 2011-03-11 17:46:30 <nanotube> ah well noise is a different issue :)
2075 2011-03-11 17:46:31 <nanotube> jgarzik: thanks :)
2076 2011-03-11 17:46:31 <hacim> i've been overclocking my 5870 to 900,1200, but I've noticed recently that it stops getting high hash rates and I can no longer get the clocks via --od-getclocks, unless I reboot
2077 2011-03-11 17:46:37 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yes, BIND does the same thing with 1,000 times additional complexity
2078 2011-03-11 17:46:38 <nanotube> justmoon: nope, by default tehy're off.
2079 2011-03-11 17:46:38 <Avemo> BIND is for ICANN patsies
2080 2011-03-11 17:46:39 <jgarzik> ;;bc,seen gavinandresen
2081 2011-03-11 17:46:39 <gribble> Error: "bc,seen" is not a valid command.
2082 2011-03-11 17:46:41 <luke-jr> justmoon: IP transactions are deprecated
2083 2011-03-11 17:46:43 <hacim> is this because the card is no longer happy with my overclocking?
2084 2011-03-11 17:46:44 <jgarzik> ;;seen gavinandresen
2085 2011-03-11 17:46:44 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 19 hours, 6 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> ArtForz: that sounds about right to me.
2086 2011-03-11 17:46:46 <luke-jr> justmoon: probably going to be removed
2087 2011-03-11 17:46:57 <hacim> nanotube: I'm also concerned that the card might be going bad, in which case it might be good to get rid of it
2088 2011-03-11 17:47:01 <bk128-Droid> How hot does it get?
2089 2011-03-11 17:47:02 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2090 2011-03-11 17:47:07 <jgarzik> RED HOT
2091 2011-03-11 17:47:08 <intelliot> what about all this talk of using a merkle tree hash that's only 5 MB per year? where can i get that?
2092 2011-03-11 17:47:10 <justmoon> luke-jr: i'm asking because the fallback node page wants to know whether my node accepts them
2093 2011-03-11 17:47:11 <nanotube> hacim: maybe, try clocking it down a notch.
2094 2011-03-11 17:47:17 * jgarzik still has an in-box, unopened 5970 that wants using
2095 2011-03-11 17:47:19 <jgarzik> hmmmm
2096 2011-03-11 17:47:23 <phantomcircuit> int0x27h, wat?
2097 2011-03-11 17:47:25 <phantomcircuit> intelliot, wat?
2098 2011-03-11 17:47:28 <nanotube> bk128-Droid: there's bitcoind 'backupwallet' command for that.
2099 2011-03-11 17:47:33 <jgarzik> not doing anybody any good, sitting on the floor here
2100 2011-03-11 17:47:46 nathan7 has joined
2101 2011-03-11 17:47:48 <justmoon> jgarzik: opening bid 50 bitcoin and a picture of my hamster
2102 2011-03-11 17:47:50 <hacim> jgarzik: send it over here and I'll get it working :)
2103 2011-03-11 17:47:53 <x6763> intelliot: that's not supported in the main client *yet*
2104 2011-03-11 17:47:53 <nanotube> justmoon: it doesn't want to know - the wikibot will test it automagically.
2105 2011-03-11 17:47:56 <hacim> nanotube: it seems like it can't recognize the card until I reboot
2106 2011-03-11 17:47:57 <Avemo> justmoon: could you please add it to fallback nodes at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_nodes every once in a while I take stable nodes from there and AFAIK my bitseed.org.uk is hardcoded into DNS bootstraping code
2107 2011-03-11 17:48:00 <bk128-Droid> Thanks
2108 2011-03-11 17:48:01 <Avemo> <-- 2 unopened (yet) 5970's and one more on the way
2109 2011-03-11 17:48:02 MartianW has joined
2110 2011-03-11 17:48:03 <justmoon> nanotube: ah I see
2111 2011-03-11 17:48:05 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
2112 2011-03-11 17:48:05 MartianW has joined
2113 2011-03-11 17:48:12 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk
2114 2011-03-11 17:48:29 <hacim> nanotube: seems like without the OC, temp is hovering around 82.5 C
2115 2011-03-11 17:48:33 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2116 2011-03-11 17:48:40 <mmarker> Heh. I should sell a heatpump kit to the miners...do some thermo work with the waste heat...
2117 2011-03-11 17:48:45 <dust1> just curious, how much would you sell a 5970 for?
2118 2011-03-11 17:48:49 <nanotube> hacim: so reboot, then downclock, and see if behavior persists. :) also check temps...
2119 2011-03-11 17:49:01 <Avemo> I am not selling
2120 2011-03-11 17:49:03 <mmarker> grr, and I think genjix broke the server
2121 2011-03-11 17:49:10 * mmarker grabs the sharp knives.
2122 2011-03-11 17:49:10 <hacim> nanotube: yeah
2123 2011-03-11 17:49:19 <nanotube> hacim: that's a bit on the high side... what was it with the OC?
2124 2011-03-11 17:49:27 <jgarzik> Avemo: yes, just two DNS seed entries, yours and mine. Need more...
2125 2011-03-11 17:49:32 <jgarzik> dust1: 850 BTC shipped
2126 2011-03-11 17:49:43 <hacim> nanotube: not sure, i can oc it again and watch
2127 2011-03-11 17:49:51 <luke-jr> jgarzik: LOL good luck with that
2128 2011-03-11 17:50:04 <jgarzik> it sounded like gavin was interested in building a DNS seed, one that polls addr.dat for addresses
2129 2011-03-11 17:50:04 <nanotube> you can feel free to add the fallback nodes to the dns entry list...
2130 2011-03-11 17:50:07 Bosma has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
2131 2011-03-11 17:50:11 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2132 2011-03-11 17:50:14 <nanotube> hacim: haha nvm just thought you remembered, because of course you were paying attn to the temps...
2133 2011-03-11 17:50:16 <jgarzik> djbdns (tinydns) makes exporting IPs completely trivial
2134 2011-03-11 17:50:18 <dust1> could get a new 6990 for that
2135 2011-03-11 17:50:25 AmpEater has joined
2136 2011-03-11 17:50:28 <jgarzik> nanotube: Avemo's bitseed covers that
2137 2011-03-11 17:50:31 <mmarker> OK. genjix! What did you do to my poor server!
2138 2011-03-11 17:50:32 <nanotube> ah
2139 2011-03-11 17:50:49 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
2140 2011-03-11 17:50:58 mynic has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2141 2011-03-11 17:50:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I *might* offer 400 BTC for it, but certainly not more
2142 2011-03-11 17:51:12 Jeroenz0r has joined
2143 2011-03-11 17:51:13 * jgarzik wishes djb-written software wasn't so.... different from every #$@!#@! other piece of server software out there
2144 2011-03-11 17:51:13 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
2145 2011-03-11 17:51:13 Jeroenz0r has joined
2146 2011-03-11 17:51:14 <Avemo> jgarzik: sure need more... my DNS is hosted at zerigo which is quite reliable and my policy is every once in a while edit DNS record manually placing there stable nodes from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_nodes
2147 2011-03-11 17:51:14 <hacim> nanotube: mining is starting to no longer be profitable, so maybe its time for me to retire this rig
2148 2011-03-11 17:51:29 <mmarker> jgarzik: Ever use his crypto stuff?
2149 2011-03-11 17:51:30 <luke-jr> jgarzik: and keep in mind, it's rapidly deprecating in value as it sits there
2150 2011-03-11 17:51:31 <dust1> anyone have a 6990 yet?
2151 2011-03-11 17:51:33 <jgarzik> luke-jr: LOL good luck with that
2152 2011-03-11 17:51:50 <jgarzik> Avemo: I meant, need more DNS names other than you :)
2153 2011-03-11 17:52:11 <jgarzik> mmarker: used, no. read (source / docs)? yes.
2154 2011-03-11 17:52:14 <nanotube> hacim: as long as you already have the hardware, and your only expense is power, mining is still very profitable.
2155 2011-03-11 17:52:21 <Avemo> yes I got that , just tried to clarify how I put IP's there
2156 2011-03-11 17:52:25 <AmpEater> someone selling a gpu?
2157 2011-03-11 17:52:45 <mmarker> jgarzik: Yea, the source is usually good. How he puts it together leaves a lot to be desired at times.
2158 2011-03-11 17:52:45 <hacim> nanotube: seems like without overclocking, my --odgt is now hung
2159 2011-03-11 17:53:07 <hacim> nanotube: at a 7-day moving average of 5.3btc, its somewhat not worth it
2160 2011-03-11 17:53:19 <nanotube> hacim: what's your hash rate?
2161 2011-03-11 17:53:22 <nanotube> hacim: mmm
2162 2011-03-11 17:53:26 <Avemo> hacim: that basically means you gotta reboot now
2163 2011-03-11 17:53:30 <hacim> nanotube: it is profitable, but the amount is getting pretty low
2164 2011-03-11 17:53:31 <hacim> Avemo: I just rebooted
2165 2011-03-11 17:53:39 <justmoon> nanotube: well wikibot seems to think I do accept ip transactions
2166 2011-03-11 17:53:54 * jgarzik waits for his pool server to mint its first block... should be 2-5 days
2167 2011-03-11 17:53:57 <hacim> nanotube: well I was getting 340000 khash/s with the OC, but without I get 3.2
2168 2011-03-11 17:54:03 <nanotube> justmoon: oh interesting...
2169 2011-03-11 17:54:07 <nanotube> ;;bc,gen 320000
2170 2011-03-11 17:54:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 320000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 4.22428543052 BTC per day and 0.176011892938 BTC per hour.
2171 2011-03-11 17:54:09 <Avemo> +1 to djbdns, I used it all the time before I decided to stop hosting my DNS
2172 2011-03-11 17:54:10 <justmoon> or maybe it hasn't run yet?
2173 2011-03-11 17:54:22 <jgarzik> justmoon: I think MagicalTux runs that wikibot. If it is stomping good information with incorrect info, poke him...
2174 2011-03-11 17:54:27 <mmarker> grr, bad mysql
2175 2011-03-11 17:54:35 <hacim> aticonfig --pplib-cmd "get fanspeed 0" seems to return fine
2176 2011-03-11 17:54:51 <hacim> aticonfig --od-getclocks
2177 2011-03-11 17:54:51 <hacim> ERROR - Get clocks failed for the Default Adapter - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
2178 2011-03-11 17:54:54 <Avemo> hacim: correction. fix the problem than reboot... I sometimes had such issues when overclocking/overheating the card
2179 2011-03-11 17:55:19 <luke-jr> why is IP tx even on that wiki page?
2180 2011-03-11 17:55:36 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2181 2011-03-11 17:55:54 <justmoon> yeah, just put a donate btc address instead, it's not like anybody is going to send anything anyway
2182 2011-03-11 17:56:01 nathan7 has joined
2183 2011-03-11 17:56:21 <luke-jr> XD
2184 2011-03-11 17:56:30 <hacim> Avemo: yeah, but I dont know what the problem is...
2185 2011-03-11 17:56:51 tower has joined
2186 2011-03-11 17:58:01 <Avemo> hacim: either problems with software, drivers, or overheating card, try to underclock until it is stable ... difficult to say from here
2187 2011-03-11 17:58:19 <BlueMatt> what should be the default state for UPnP???
2188 2011-03-11 17:58:26 <Avemo> off
2189 2011-03-11 17:58:31 <BlueMatt> on gui?
2190 2011-03-11 17:58:44 <nanotube> justmoon: wait until the hour rolls over. the wikibot checks nodes every hour
2191 2011-03-11 17:58:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: on
2192 2011-03-11 17:59:02 <luke-jr> UPnP never hurts
2193 2011-03-11 17:59:02 <nanotube> BlueMatt: off
2194 2011-03-11 17:59:04 <nanotube> heh
2195 2011-03-11 17:59:04 <hacim> interestingly the mining process still goes
2196 2011-03-11 17:59:08 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so off by default on bitcoind and on by default on bitcoin-gui?
2197 2011-03-11 17:59:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: on for both
2198 2011-03-11 17:59:22 <BlueMatt> nanotube: ?
2199 2011-03-11 17:59:27 tower is now known as towerX
2200 2011-03-11 17:59:28 <Avemo> still off, but it is not that strong opinion for gui
2201 2011-03-11 17:59:29 <luke-jr> it makes no sense to have it off really
2202 2011-03-11 17:59:46 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2203 2011-03-11 17:59:46 <luke-jr> if the router supports it, it should be used
2204 2011-03-11 17:59:49 <luke-jr> if not, it won't work anyway
2205 2011-03-11 18:00:00 <nanotube> BlueMatt: upnp is often cited as a security risk. i think off by default is the safer cohice.
2206 2011-03-11 18:00:02 <nanotube> choice
2207 2011-03-11 18:00:17 <BlueMatt> nanotube: clearly for noobs its better to be on by default
2208 2011-03-11 18:00:23 <luke-jr> nanotube: only by idiots
2209 2011-03-11 18:00:41 <luke-jr> UPnP is not a security risk
2210 2011-03-11 18:00:51 <nanotube> BlueMatt: the noober they are, the better for them to keep their ports closed.
2211 2011-03-11 18:00:53 <BlueMatt> nanotube: its a security risk to have it on on your router, not on in your software
2212 2011-03-11 18:01:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's not a security risk period
2213 2011-03-11 18:01:16 <Avemo> I do not know UPnP good enough to think that it is not a security risk
2214 2011-03-11 18:01:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not really, but bad idea on a router anyway
2215 2011-03-11 18:01:41 <BlueMatt> so on by default, you can discuss this in the pull request ;)
2216 2011-03-11 18:01:50 <luke-jr> no, I can't.
2217 2011-03-11 18:02:10 <luke-jr> to discuss anything in a pull request requires a legal contract to provide GitHub with lawyers
2218 2011-03-11 18:02:12 <luke-jr> I won't do that
2219 2011-03-11 18:02:45 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: fine, discuss it on the forums if you really hate github so much
2220 2011-03-11 18:03:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: feel free to push the UPnP branch to Gitorious too btw :P
2221 2011-03-11 18:03:53 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: then I have to make an account... too much work
2222 2011-03-11 18:04:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you would have to make an accoutn to use GitHub too
2223 2011-03-11 18:04:12 eao has joined
2224 2011-03-11 18:04:15 <luke-jr> and unlike GitHub, Gitorious has reasonable terms
2225 2011-03-11 18:04:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: already have one though
2226 2011-03-11 18:04:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: do I care about the terms, not really. Will they ever enforce them unreasonably probably not
2227 2011-03-11 18:04:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'll keep in mind that you have no respect for contracts.
2228 2011-03-11 18:04:55 <dabron> How is giving clients behind your router/firewall the ability to open up ports through the router not a security risk?
2229 2011-03-11 18:05:08 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: please do
2230 2011-03-11 18:05:13 <luke-jr> dabron: because it's a router, not a firewall.
2231 2011-03-11 18:05:29 <dabron> Mine's a great firewall
2232 2011-03-11 18:05:42 <luke-jr> OMG, does bitcoind really require gthread BS?
2233 2011-03-11 18:07:00 <Avemo> actually contract law does not expect parties to keep the contract, it just expects the parties to cover other party reasonable damages due to breach of contract. It might be difeerent in US, it's a bit crazy out there with punitive damages and all that...
2234 2011-03-11 18:07:03 Lachesis has joined
2235 2011-03-11 18:07:33 <luke-jr> Avemo: if you weren't expected to keep the contract, then you can't cause damages by neglecting to
2236 2011-03-11 18:07:39 <justmoon> ok, so the wikibot moved my node further up (i added myself under lfm, now I'm under gavin) and it still thinks I accept IP transactions ...whatever
2237 2011-03-11 18:07:42 jrabbit has joined
2238 2011-03-11 18:07:47 <luke-jr> lol
2239 2011-03-11 18:07:48 <dabron> It does packet swiching, packet forwarding and many other things, Technically it doesn't actually do routing since it has it routes defined
2240 2011-03-11 18:08:05 intelliot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2241 2011-03-11 18:08:09 <luke-jr> dabron: the point is, if you want firewall, that's a different function
2242 2011-03-11 18:08:15 intelliot has joined
2243 2011-03-11 18:08:39 <Avemo> luke-jr: we are probably talking about different law... I basically rephrased a passage from a good book on English Contract Law
2244 2011-03-11 18:08:51 <luke-jr> Avemo: that's nice. contracts transcend laws.
2245 2011-03-11 18:09:09 <luke-jr> even if there is no law, you still have to honour your word
2246 2011-03-11 18:09:14 <nanotube> justmoon: mmm well, ask MagicalTux about that...
2247 2011-03-11 18:09:23 <jgarzik> upnp is _definitely_ insecure. but it's also working at a huge number of sites. so pick your poison.
2248 2011-03-11 18:09:26 <Avemo> it's much more complex than that
2249 2011-03-11 18:09:38 <justmoon> nanotube: see, I would, but I don't really give a ... :)
2250 2011-03-11 18:09:45 <luke-jr> jgarzik: it's not insecure. it just isn't a security-related protocol.
2251 2011-03-11 18:09:53 <nanotube> justmoon: haha
2252 2011-03-11 18:10:07 <luke-jr> jgarzik: if you have a firewall, it will stop stuff regardless of UPnP
2253 2011-03-11 18:10:14 <jgarzik> when the authors of a protocol agree it is insecure, it is insecure.
2254 2011-03-11 18:10:16 <luke-jr> if you don't have a firewall, THAT might be a security problem
2255 2011-03-11 18:10:28 intelliot has quit (Client Quit)
2256 2011-03-11 18:11:01 <dabron> Just because they hold the name "router" doesn't mean that's their only function. I know people who use them even though they only have one machine because they make a great "firewall".
2257 2011-03-11 18:11:10 <Avemo> with UPnP we should conside common usage case, which is a windows box behind a simple ADSL router with nat
2258 2011-03-11 18:11:26 <luke-jr> dabron: that misinformation is the real security hole
2259 2011-03-11 18:12:06 comboy has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2260 2011-03-11 18:12:12 <luke-jr> Avemo: also with default passwords on the router
2261 2011-03-11 18:12:27 <Avemo> and that NAT has upnp enabled by default
2262 2011-03-11 18:12:34 <luke-jr> as it should
2263 2011-03-11 18:12:35 <Avemo> that too
2264 2011-03-11 18:13:10 <dabron> What is misinformed about it? I've take a master's level networking class and play with my own network all the time. What are you defining as a "firewall". I want something that doesn't all unsolicited traffic to reach my machinge. My "router" does just that.
2265 2011-03-11 18:13:22 <luke-jr> in a default configuration, the only firewall should be on the endpoint PC
2266 2011-03-11 18:13:46 <dabron> s/all/allow
2267 2011-03-11 18:13:51 <luke-jr> dabron: a firewall inspects and filters packets
2268 2011-03-11 18:14:22 genjix has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2269 2011-03-11 18:14:52 <dabron> luke-jr: wouldn't dropping unsolicited packets count as filtering then?
2270 2011-03-11 18:15:04 <jgarzik> huh. My DNS provider, dnspark, has the following feature listed under its HTTP-Redirect gadgets: Stealth - Check this box to enable stealth redirection which masks the actual URL in the browser.
2271 2011-03-11 18:15:07 <jgarzik> I wonder how that works.
2272 2011-03-11 18:15:18 <jgarzik> temporary vs permanent redirect, maybe
2273 2011-03-11 18:15:18 <Avemo> common case of ADSL with NAT is actually a particular case of a a firewall and reasonably secure actually, it stops huge number of attacks agains happless common users
2274 2011-03-11 18:15:38 <luke-jr> dabron: it could be. or it could simply be not having anythign to do with them
2275 2011-03-11 18:15:57 <luke-jr> Avemo: it shouldn't.
2276 2011-03-11 18:16:15 <Avemo> ?
2277 2011-03-11 18:16:35 <luke-jr> it should transparently route traffic
2278 2011-03-11 18:16:53 <luke-jr> FWIW, my new node is now downloading blocks
2279 2011-03-11 18:17:00 <justmoon> jgarzik: it probably uses a frame so that the browser URL stays the same
2280 2011-03-11 18:17:46 <Avemo> I am not going to argue on that, maybe so. I just stated the facts
2281 2011-03-11 18:18:47 <Avemo> but consider what would happen if all the ADSL router shipped with default open without NAT config...
2282 2011-03-11 18:19:01 <luke-jr> Avemo: then Windows Firewall is put to the test
2283 2011-03-11 18:19:04 <dabron> luke-jr: regardless of semantics of a firewall, client machines should not be allowed to make configuration changes to my router, period
2284 2011-03-11 18:19:22 <luke-jr> dabron: it's not a configuration change.
2285 2011-03-11 18:19:27 <Avemo> we all know that it would fail abdly
2286 2011-03-11 18:19:30 <Avemo> badly
2287 2011-03-11 18:19:51 <luke-jr> UPnP is how NAT works with listening ports
2288 2011-03-11 18:19:59 <luke-jr> Avemo: if so, good. Less Windows is better.
2289 2011-03-11 18:20:20 <Avemo> that's not practical
2290 2011-03-11 18:20:21 <luke-jr> dabron: I'm all for abolishing NAT
2291 2011-03-11 18:20:23 <dabron> luke-jr: when packets that weren't previously allowed to enter the network are now allowed to enter, i would consider that a configuration change
2292 2011-03-11 18:20:46 <luke-jr> dabron: it's not that they weren't allowed, it was that your router was too stupid to figure out what to do with them
2293 2011-03-11 18:20:55 <ousado> luke-jr: by saying "it's not a security risk period", do you mean it's impossible for any implementation of upnp to have security holes/open attack vectors of any kind?
2294 2011-03-11 18:21:07 <luke-jr> in reality, it *should* be forwarding the incoming packet to every known IP, and connecting the first to respond
2295 2011-03-11 18:21:13 <luke-jr> ousado: no
2296 2011-03-11 18:21:26 <dabron> luke-jr: no, they were expicitly dropped since they were unsolicited
2297 2011-03-11 18:22:04 <Avemo> and very egoistical... look at me I have linux with decenly configured firewall, let's ship all ADSL routers open by default so that all innocently naive Windows users get hacked
2298 2011-03-11 18:22:36 <BlueMatt> ok upnp implemented, pull request made. Now I have to go. :)
2299 2011-03-11 18:22:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ty
2300 2011-03-11 18:23:04 <luke-jr> now I can remove the explicit port forward in my router :D
2301 2011-03-11 18:25:17 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2302 2011-03-11 18:26:42 mmarker has quit (Quit: Grr.)
2303 2011-03-11 18:27:27 <Syke> who's going to be the first to benchmark a 6990?
2304 2011-03-11 18:28:13 <luke-jr> ;;bc,blocks
2305 2011-03-11 18:28:14 <gribble> 113164
2306 2011-03-11 18:28:32 <luke-jr> Syke: me, if you buy me one fast
2307 2011-03-11 18:28:50 <Syke> I would if I could find them in-stock! :)
2308 2011-03-11 18:29:26 <luke-jr> o rly
2309 2011-03-11 18:29:34 <Syke> not rly :)
2310 2011-03-11 18:29:37 <luke-jr> so if I help you find them in-stock, you buy me one?
2311 2011-03-11 18:29:38 <luke-jr> aww
2312 2011-03-11 18:29:46 genjix has joined
2313 2011-03-11 18:31:15 <xelister> damn I always troll myself with radeons...
2314 2011-03-11 18:31:50 <xelister> "hmm radeon working all day, I wonder if I turned up the fan?"
2315 2011-03-11 18:31:56 <xelister> *looks at monitor*
2316 2011-03-11 18:32:18 <xelister> *89 C* (for past hours) O_o_< LOL
2317 2011-03-11 18:32:26 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2318 2011-03-11 18:32:55 <Syke> ew, I don't like seeing it over 80
2319 2011-03-11 18:33:02 <xelister> yeah I have 75 normal
2320 2011-03-11 18:36:57 <xelister> Syke: nothing beat the other time I had.
2321 2011-03-11 18:37:00 <xelister> *beats
2322 2011-03-11 18:37:39 Spenvo has joined
2323 2011-03-11 18:39:20 <BlueMatt> ok, well I have no idea how to update the Makefiles aside from .unix, anyone have any idea?
2324 2011-03-11 18:39:24 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/b94b7b05a7b1d27e28ca9a8684877ca605d70256#diff-0
2325 2011-03-11 18:39:27 <BlueMatt> that is the unix change
2326 2011-03-11 18:41:48 Spenvo_ has joined
2327 2011-03-11 18:42:12 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2328 2011-03-11 18:42:13 Spenvo_ is now known as Spenvo
2329 2011-03-11 18:43:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: OMG WTF did you do
2330 2011-03-11 18:43:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I added miniupnpc?
2331 2011-03-11 18:44:00 <luke-jr> you freaking copied it into the git tree
2332 2011-03-11 18:44:06 <luke-jr> ever hear of dependenciesâ
2333 2011-03-11 18:44:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its easier that way, similar to the way crypto++is in the git tree
2334 2011-03-11 18:44:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it shouldn't be
2335 2011-03-11 18:44:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its easier to build anyway
2336 2011-03-11 18:44:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: heh, does UPNP provide 7 kLOC worth of value?
2337 2011-03-11 18:44:59 <luke-jr> no, it isn't.
2338 2011-03-11 18:44:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so how do you propose I do it?
2339 2011-03-11 18:45:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: looks like simply removing the miniupnpc directory would work fine
2340 2011-03-11 18:45:20 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
2341 2011-03-11 18:45:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113166 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1745 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 18 hours, 5 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67371.00800000
2342 2011-03-11 18:45:32 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its done the same way in transmission
2343 2011-03-11 18:45:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: one bug does not justify a new one
2344 2011-03-11 18:45:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and libminiupnpc isnt in any repos ive seen
2345 2011-03-11 18:45:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: neither is bitcoind
2346 2011-03-11 18:46:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so make a new thing that needs done before it can be included?
2347 2011-03-11 18:46:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: also, you didn't look hard
2348 2011-03-11 18:46:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no libupnp is libminiupnpc isnt
2349 2011-03-11 18:46:56 <luke-jr> miniupnpc is in Gentoo stable and Debian sid
2350 2011-03-11 18:47:21 molec-droid has joined
2351 2011-03-11 18:47:34 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2352 2011-03-11 18:47:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so bitcoin shouldnt have another thing before it gets into ubuntu's repo?
2353 2011-03-11 18:48:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its not in debian
2354 2011-03-11 18:48:16 molec-droid has quit (Client Quit)
2355 2011-03-11 18:48:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's Ubuntu's problem. I'd also make this OPTIONAL, so they could opt to not support UPnP
2356 2011-03-11 18:48:20 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libminiupnpc&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all
2357 2011-03-11 18:48:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: your search was only stable
2358 2011-03-11 18:48:35 molec-droid has joined
2359 2011-03-11 18:48:38 <blarzong> We now describe the Byzantine agreement problem.
2360 2011-03-11 18:49:21 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, Ill make it optional but that still means anyone wanting to compile will have to dl and copy miniupnpc to their bitcoin dir
2361 2011-03-11 18:49:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not really. Lemme show you⦠1 sec
2362 2011-03-11 18:49:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and that means apt-get source wont work for ubuntu or debian
2363 2011-03-11 18:54:53 hazek has joined
2364 2011-03-11 18:56:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: pull git://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoin.git UPnP
2365 2011-03-11 18:56:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: uses system miniupnpc lib fine
2366 2011-03-11 18:58:07 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea you could gladly do that, but again that means more work to get into package managers and just makes it much harder to compile
2367 2011-03-11 18:58:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, it compiles just fine
2368 2011-03-11 18:58:36 <luke-jr> and package managers are already adding upnp
2369 2011-03-11 18:58:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: but that means people have to dl and compile miniupnp manually
2370 2011-03-11 18:58:48 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not really, unstable debian doesnt really count
2371 2011-03-11 18:59:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: compiling is for developers, not end users
2372 2011-03-11 18:59:07 BitterTea has joined
2373 2011-03-11 18:59:10 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
2374 2011-03-11 18:59:10 BitterTea has joined
2375 2011-03-11 18:59:26 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why don't we package bdb and wx too?
2376 2011-03-11 18:59:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok fine
2377 2011-03-11 18:59:35 hacim has quit (Changing host)
2378 2011-03-11 18:59:35 hacim has joined
2379 2011-03-11 18:59:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: but then why do we package cryptopp?
2380 2011-03-11 18:59:51 <luke-jr> I'm guessing satoshi changed it somewhere
2381 2011-03-11 18:59:56 <luke-jr> really, we shouldn't
2382 2011-03-11 19:00:34 <BlueMatt> why do we, just historical?
2383 2011-03-11 19:00:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: but also, publishing entire source isnt for end users either
2384 2011-03-11 19:05:01 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2385 2011-03-11 19:06:00 altamic has joined
2386 2011-03-11 19:11:23 <Spenvo> Guys, TWiL is live, I'll tell you if they bring up bitcoin
2387 2011-03-11 19:12:10 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: just added another commit to my copy of UPnP branch
2388 2011-03-11 19:12:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: this one lets you put USE_UPNP= to the 'make' line, to remove all UPnP support at all (no miniupnpc dependency), or USE_UPNP=0 to make it disabled by default
2389 2011-03-11 19:15:11 molec-droid has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2390 2011-03-11 19:16:02 <luke-jr> how big is you guys' bitcoind?
2391 2011-03-11 19:16:11 <luke-jr> mine is 1.6 MB :P
2392 2011-03-11 19:17:49 <molecular> satoshi?
2393 2011-03-11 19:20:11 <blarzong> sup
2394 2011-03-11 19:20:16 <blarzong> satoshi is here? coool
2395 2011-03-11 19:21:35 <luke-jr> he is?
2396 2011-03-11 19:21:55 <luke-jr> so um, who sent me some bitcoin about an hour ago? :o
2397 2011-03-11 19:23:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,blocks
2398 2011-03-11 19:23:31 <gribble> 113170
2399 2011-03-11 19:23:50 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2400 2011-03-11 19:27:00 <blarzong> its a wonderful day in the hood
2401 2011-03-11 19:28:28 bk128-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
2402 2011-03-11 19:28:44 bk128-Droid has joined
2403 2011-03-11 19:30:20 bk128-Droid has quit (Client Quit)
2404 2011-03-11 19:31:27 dirtyfilthy has joined
2405 2011-03-11 19:33:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what is the Microsoft supported API for upnp?
2406 2011-03-11 19:34:12 * luke-jr thinks the OS should automatically do UPnP when something listens on a socket :P
2407 2011-03-11 19:35:02 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: in general, including libs is the last thing we want to do
2408 2011-03-11 19:35:26 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Google, of all people, has brought back that annoying practice, to the detriment of software quality everywher
2409 2011-03-11 19:36:52 <BitterTea> jgarzik: They include libraries?
2410 2011-03-11 19:37:26 <jgarzik> BitterTea: they ship their own versions of a bunch of system libs
2411 2011-03-11 19:37:32 <jgarzik> BitterTea: drives OS packagers nuts
2412 2011-03-11 19:38:30 <luke-jr> jgarzik: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382303(v=vs.85).aspx
2413 2011-03-11 19:38:35 <luke-jr> looks non-trivial IMO
2414 2011-03-11 19:39:35 towerX is now known as tower
2415 2011-03-11 19:39:44 <blarzong> googlesort
2416 2011-03-11 19:42:01 <yebyen> anybody know about xbox 360?
2417 2011-03-11 19:42:11 <yebyen> should be an easy question, unless it's not....
2418 2011-03-11 19:42:28 <yebyen> can you copy a movie to a usb stick and then play it, or copy it to the xbox360 hard drive
2419 2011-03-11 19:42:32 <yebyen> or no
2420 2011-03-11 19:44:01 <yebyen> *without a windows pc
2421 2011-03-11 19:46:46 <blarzong> happy birds
2422 2011-03-11 19:48:53 <luke-jr> hmm
2423 2011-03-11 19:48:56 <luke-jr> I think this might be a bug
2424 2011-03-11 19:49:16 <luke-jr> why does bitcoind broadcast/flood blocks while it downloads them for the first time?
2425 2011-03-11 19:51:11 <luke-jr> ;;bc,blocks
2426 2011-03-11 19:51:12 <gribble> 113174
2427 2011-03-11 19:51:15 <Spenvo> aww damn, twil is wrapping up, no mention of bitcoin, blah
2428 2011-03-11 19:52:29 <justmoon> Spenvo: what's twil?
2429 2011-03-11 19:53:26 <BitterTea> This Week in ?
2430 2011-03-11 19:53:34 <BitterTea> The Women I love?
2431 2011-03-11 19:53:44 <Spenvo> http://twit.tv/twil she hit me up on the old twiiter http://twitter.com/dhowell/status/44427023535439872#
2432 2011-03-11 19:53:46 <justmoon> The World is lame?
2433 2011-03-11 19:53:59 <Spenvo> said she would look at it
2434 2011-03-11 19:54:21 <Spenvo> but not newsworthy enough i guess
2435 2011-03-11 19:54:45 amvjob has joined
2436 2011-03-11 19:55:12 <luke-jr> #bitcoin-watch is back up
2437 2011-03-11 19:55:50 <justmoon> Spenvo: that show is about law right? maybe she didn't find any legal issues to talk about?
2438 2011-03-11 19:56:31 <Spenvo> doubtful http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=227.0
2439 2011-03-11 19:57:16 <Spenvo> plenty of legal issues to cover
2440 2011-03-11 19:59:18 TD has joined
2441 2011-03-11 19:59:22 bitcoiner has joined
2442 2011-03-11 20:00:12 <luke-jr> Avemo: 173.242.112.53 is static
2443 2011-03-11 20:00:20 <luke-jr> Avemo: also, bitseed.bitcon.me.uk does not resolve
2444 2011-03-11 20:01:40 amiller has joined
2445 2011-03-11 20:01:41 <Avemo> I'll have a look
2446 2011-03-11 20:02:47 <luke-jr> there is no me.uk
2447 2011-03-11 20:03:15 <luke-jr> or at least, .uk says there isn't if you ask about that domain
2448 2011-03-11 20:03:25 <luke-jr> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk seems to work
2449 2011-03-11 20:03:26 <Avemo> bitcoin.me.ukhost bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk
2450 2011-03-11 20:03:26 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 178.63.15.200
2451 2011-03-11 20:03:26 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 69.163.132.101
2452 2011-03-11 20:03:26 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 69.164.218.197
2453 2011-03-11 20:03:26 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 178.63.62.15
2454 2011-03-11 20:03:27 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 178.18.90.41
2455 2011-03-11 20:03:29 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 142.58.248.28
2456 2011-03-11 20:03:33 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 109.75.176.193
2457 2011-03-11 20:03:35 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 174.120.185.74
2458 2011-03-11 20:03:35 <luke-jr> Avemo: you left out an i :p
2459 2011-03-11 20:03:37 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 91.85.220.84
2460 2011-03-11 20:03:39 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has address 217.157.1.202
2461 2011-03-11 20:03:58 <Avemo> damn keyboard
2462 2011-03-11 20:04:20 <Avemo> host bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk
2463 2011-03-11 20:04:20 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 69.163.132.101
2464 2011-03-11 20:04:20 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 91.85.220.84
2465 2011-03-11 20:04:20 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 217.157.1.202
2466 2011-03-11 20:04:20 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 69.164.218.197
2467 2011-03-11 20:04:21 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 178.18.90.41
2468 2011-03-11 20:04:23 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 178.63.62.15
2469 2011-03-11 20:04:25 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 142.58.248.28
2470 2011-03-11 20:04:27 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 174.120.185.74
2471 2011-03-11 20:04:29 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 109.75.176.193
2472 2011-03-11 20:04:33 <Avemo> bitseed.bitcoin.me.uk has address 178.63.15.200
2473 2011-03-11 20:04:34 <lfm> please stop
2474 2011-03-11 20:05:14 <justmoon> no please continue
2475 2011-03-11 20:05:19 <justmoon> it's soothing
2476 2011-03-11 20:05:20 <Avemo> that's it
2477 2011-03-11 20:05:25 <justmoon> aw :(
2478 2011-03-11 20:05:55 <Avemo> me.uk is a valid TLD
2479 2011-03-11 20:06:30 <lfm> two 178.68.* wont use both I think
2480 2011-03-11 20:07:47 <Avemo> I think DNS returns them in random order, some clients will take one others another
2481 2011-03-11 20:14:55 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2482 2011-03-11 20:15:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree, but I did look into writing a UPnP implementation for this and it got a bit complicated so...
2483 2011-03-11 20:15:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I even started writing one but it just got out of hand quickly
2484 2011-03-11 20:17:53 <ArtForz> why not use miniupnp lib?
2485 2011-03-11 20:18:35 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: that is what it is about to do in 10 secs when I recommit it
2486 2011-03-11 20:19:26 <ArtForz> cool
2487 2011-03-11 20:19:38 <jgarzik> ArtForz: nobody disagrees with /using/ miniupnp lib AFAIK. it's just including it into the bitcoin source code tree that raises eyebrows.
2488 2011-03-11 20:19:52 <ArtForz> why?
2489 2011-03-11 20:22:38 <ArtForz> just carry it around in its own subdir
2490 2011-03-11 20:23:44 <jgarzik> ArtForz: that kind of crap is always a maintenance hassle
2491 2011-03-11 20:24:01 <ArtForz> well, we'll have to statically link it anways
2492 2011-03-11 20:24:14 <jgarzik> not on linux
2493 2011-03-11 20:24:33 <ArtForz> dunno
2494 2011-03-11 20:24:40 <Avemo> another good reason to separate core and gui
2495 2011-03-11 20:24:57 <ArtForz> erm, upnp would be part of core....
2496 2011-03-11 20:25:12 <Avemo> should it?
2497 2011-03-11 20:25:20 <ArtForz> yes
2498 2011-03-11 20:25:35 <lfm> avemo wouldnt separate core and gui be a hassle for mswin people?
2499 2011-03-11 20:26:16 <jgarzik> honestly, I don't think upnp is a big deal... if you cannot port forward, sitting behind a NAT works just fine with their 8 outbound cxns. most future clients, behaving more like leaf nodes, may even have <8.
2500 2011-03-11 20:26:19 <blarzong> how do you donate to the bitcoin dev team for creating such an awesome system? is there a bitcoin address?
2501 2011-03-11 20:26:32 <jgarzik> and to host a bitcoin node, you should be technical enough to figure out port forwarding
2502 2011-03-11 20:26:40 <ArtForz> jgarzik: it's mainly to reduce load on the nodes that DO have working inbound connections
2503 2011-03-11 20:26:41 <Avemo> not necessarily, core listen on 127.0.0.1 gui connects to it and does GUI thing
2504 2011-03-11 20:27:04 <lfm> avemo theyd call it a virus I bet
2505 2011-03-11 20:27:20 <ArtForz> I'm seeing like 30 inbound connections average
2506 2011-03-11 20:27:45 <Avemo> they might, but it i sfairly common pattern even on windows
2507 2011-03-11 20:27:49 <ArtForz> that means ~75% of nodes dont have inbound open
2508 2011-03-11 20:27:59 <jgarzik> ArtForz: lessee... nodes here have: 26. 75. 100.
2509 2011-03-11 20:28:13 <jgarzik> the latter two are modded for >8 outbound
2510 2011-03-11 20:28:19 <ArtForz> is that total includong 8 outbound, or inbound only?
2511 2011-03-11 20:28:29 <jgarzik> total outbound + inbound (from getinfo)
2512 2011-03-11 20:29:21 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: jgarzik I think upnp is very important for the network as a whole as the higher % of nodes which accept incomming conections, the higher we can set MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTION which is great for Sybil
2513 2011-03-11 20:29:21 <jgarzik> Mr. 75 is the only one who advertises on IRC
2514 2011-03-11 20:29:30 <ArtForz> inbound only, 22 on my home node, 41 and 32 on my VPSes
2515 2011-03-11 20:29:55 <jgarzik> ArtForz: which if any advert on IRC
2516 2011-03-11 20:29:56 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: we should probably set MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS higher to begin with
2517 2011-03-11 20:29:57 <jgarzik> ?
2518 2011-03-11 20:30:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: recommit it? should be able to just pull my fixed branch and repush that
2519 2011-03-11 20:30:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, doing that...one minute
2520 2011-03-11 20:30:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I messed up my local stuff to begin with so...
2521 2011-03-11 20:31:00 <ArtForz> jgarzik: none
2522 2011-03-11 20:31:01 <luke-jr> lfm: UI can launch and talk to wallet over stdio
2523 2011-03-11 20:31:55 <ArtForz> so maybe my numbers are a bit low
2524 2011-03-11 20:32:41 <ArtForz> anyways, having upnp igd client support should help increase the number of connectable nodes
2525 2011-03-11 20:33:31 theymos has joined
2526 2011-03-11 20:33:48 <jgarzik> bittorrent does upnp, apparently.
2527 2011-03-11 20:33:58 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: most clients do ,yes
2528 2011-03-11 20:34:00 <ArtForz> and nat-pmp
2529 2011-03-11 20:34:14 <jgarzik> in any case, my opinion was always: upnp is fine, dumping into bitcoin tree is lame.
2530 2011-03-11 20:34:14 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: no your numbers are average, MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTION should be set higher and UPnP can allow us to set it MUCH higher
2531 2011-03-11 20:34:17 <luke-jr> almost anything p2p does UPnP
2532 2011-03-11 20:34:17 <jgarzik> that is unchanged
2533 2011-03-11 20:34:42 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I fixed his branch up to use system lib, and allow disabling it at build tiem
2534 2011-03-11 20:34:46 noagendamarket has joined
2535 2011-03-11 20:34:50 <luke-jr> so afaik it should be good for merging
2536 2011-03-11 20:34:58 <jgarzik> luke-jr: sounds good
2537 2011-03-11 20:35:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, the windows and osx make files dont work yet
2538 2011-03-11 20:36:02 <ArtForz> okay, which major distros have a distro package for libminiupnp?
2539 2011-03-11 20:36:08 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: they should
2540 2011-03-11 20:36:10 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: pretty much none
2541 2011-03-11 20:36:16 <luke-jr> ArtForz: Debian and Gentoo
2542 2011-03-11 20:36:16 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: did you change them?
2543 2011-03-11 20:36:28 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: Debian only in unstable which pretty much no one uses
2544 2011-03-11 20:36:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, but they don't define USE_UPNP so it just won't have UPnP support
2545 2011-03-11 20:36:45 <ArtForz> not in my sid repos ...
2546 2011-03-11 20:36:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, but that defeats the purpose of the commit
2547 2011-03-11 20:36:54 <luke-jr> ArtForz: packages.debian.org sez so
2548 2011-03-11 20:37:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, it still works fine on UNIX
2549 2011-03-11 20:37:27 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, well it should be fixed on windows and mac too
2550 2011-03-11 20:37:37 <luke-jr> sure
2551 2011-03-11 20:37:43 <luke-jr> jgarzik: how comes autotools? :P
2552 2011-03-11 20:38:04 <jgarzik> luke-jr: need to get on that... it would make this task easier
2553 2011-03-11 20:38:22 hazek has joined
2554 2011-03-11 20:38:57 <Spenvo> Awesome new guys!
2555 2011-03-11 20:39:03 <Spenvo> *news
2556 2011-03-11 20:39:05 <ArtForz> great, so we dynamically link system libminiupnpc and get the redhat libssl fiasco times 42
2557 2011-03-11 20:39:32 euclid has joined
2558 2011-03-11 20:39:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the reason the "it's only unstable" argument is irrelevant, is because bitcoind/wxbitcoin won't get to testing or stable until it goes through unstable too ;)
2559 2011-03-11 20:39:47 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2560 2011-03-11 20:39:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: fair enough
2561 2011-03-11 20:40:01 <luke-jr> ArtForz: I don't get why *anything* is static linkedâ¦
2562 2011-03-11 20:40:07 <Spenvo> So, Denise Howell, host of TWiL got back with me and apologized for not getting to Bitcoin. She said she's going to get to it soon. Full twitter exchange on www.bitcoinbulletin.com
2563 2011-03-11 20:40:18 * luke-jr notes bitcoind *is* actually in Debian unstable.
2564 2011-03-11 20:40:26 <luke-jr> http://packages.debian.org/sid/bitcoind
2565 2011-03-11 20:40:30 <ArtForz> yea
2566 2011-03-11 20:40:51 <Blitzboom> thanks for the update, Spenvo
2567 2011-03-11 20:41:04 <Spenvo> word!
2568 2011-03-11 20:41:25 <ArtForz> okay, now I see it too
2569 2011-03-11 20:42:22 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2570 2011-03-11 20:42:58 <Spenvo> whoops, now the site is updated
2571 2011-03-11 20:43:12 * Spenvo shaking from excitement, making mistakes
2572 2011-03-11 20:44:13 <Blitzboom> i appreciate your efforts bringing bitcoin to the press, Spenvo
2573 2011-03-11 20:44:17 <Blitzboom> very important imo
2574 2011-03-11 20:45:03 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2575 2011-03-11 20:46:20 <blarzong> particles
2576 2011-03-11 20:48:37 <Spenvo> god damnit, haha, i wasn't kidding about the shaking, i accidentally shook my iphone and it shuffled to my next song
2577 2011-03-11 20:49:31 <blarzong> i live in the cave
2578 2011-03-11 20:52:46 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: dam, you contribute to kernel?
2579 2011-03-11 20:53:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that's the day job
2580 2011-03-11 20:53:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ah, dam
2581 2011-03-11 20:57:04 <Mango-chan> yes
2582 2011-03-11 20:57:14 <Mango-chan> the us currency is going to collapse
2583 2011-03-11 20:57:21 <Mango-chan> thanks to the Japanese earthquake LOL
2584 2011-03-11 20:58:09 <Netsniper> thanks to keynesianism
2585 2011-03-11 20:59:35 Bosma has joined
2586 2011-03-11 20:59:48 amiller has joined
2587 2011-03-11 21:01:36 <blarzong> im selling olive oil 212 btc
2588 2011-03-11 21:02:04 <genjix> quantity? where you based?
2589 2011-03-11 21:02:25 <blarzong> im in mejico
2590 2011-03-11 21:02:43 <genjix> k
2591 2011-03-11 21:02:59 <genjix> hola
2592 2011-03-11 21:03:30 <luke-jr> blarzong: isn't that a bit expensive?
2593 2011-03-11 21:03:40 <blarzong> 25 17oz bottles.. i found it behind a supermarket
2594 2011-03-11 21:04:03 <luke-jr> we usually pay like $10 for *high quality* olive oil
2595 2011-03-11 21:04:12 <luke-jr> ⦠you stole it and are selling online for BTC?
2596 2011-03-11 21:04:17 <luke-jr> at excessive prices?
2597 2011-03-11 21:04:18 <blarzong> what??
2598 2011-03-11 21:04:45 <blarzong> thats 8.48 btc per bottle
2599 2011-03-11 21:04:45 <luke-jr> "pay 20 times as much for ordinary olive oil stolen in Mexico; buy online now!"
2600 2011-03-11 21:04:55 <luke-jr> oh, all 25 for 212 btc
2601 2011-03-11 21:05:09 <blarzong> i didnt steal anything
2602 2011-03-11 21:05:16 <luke-jr> right, you "found" it
2603 2011-03-11 21:05:20 <luke-jr> on supermarket property
2604 2011-03-11 21:05:30 <luke-jr> we call that stealing here
2605 2011-03-11 21:05:31 <blarzong> no
2606 2011-03-11 21:05:49 <blarzong> thats 3 incorrect statements in a row luke-jr
2607 2011-03-11 21:06:01 <luke-jr> blarzong: just going by what you said :p
2608 2011-03-11 21:06:43 <blarzong> however many high quality brands sell for hundreds of dollars a bottle
2609 2011-03-11 21:06:49 <blarzong> you can pay thousands for very good olive oil
2610 2011-03-11 21:07:30 <luke-jr> sorry, we get high quality here for like $10 :p
2611 2011-03-11 21:08:08 <blarzong> heh that is not high quality
2612 2011-03-11 21:08:19 <genjix> that's not stealing.
2613 2011-03-11 21:08:25 <genjix> it's reappropriation.
2614 2011-03-11 21:08:36 <luke-jr> blarzong: extra virgin olive oil
2615 2011-03-11 21:08:41 <luke-jr> whatever the crap that means
2616 2011-03-11 21:08:47 <blarzong> yeah its just generic stuff
2617 2011-03-11 21:09:01 <blarzong> mediocre quality
2618 2011-03-11 21:09:04 <genjix> extra virgin olive oil is the best oil
2619 2011-03-11 21:09:19 <genjix> unless you mean virgin olive oil or just plain olive oil?
2620 2011-03-11 21:09:41 <blarzong> extra virgin is just a product category
2621 2011-03-11 21:09:45 <genjix> anyway i'd buy tha if you weren't so far :p
2622 2011-03-11 21:09:53 <blarzong> thats like saying motorcycles are the best transportation
2623 2011-03-11 21:10:01 <genjix> umm no
2624 2011-03-11 21:10:12 <genjix> you're not supposed to cook with extra virgin
2625 2011-03-11 21:10:24 <genjix> it's for putting on food like salads and toast
2626 2011-03-11 21:10:30 <luke-jr> â¦
2627 2011-03-11 21:10:33 <luke-jr> we cook with it
2628 2011-03-11 21:10:42 philipwhiterm66 has joined
2629 2011-03-11 21:10:57 <genjix> well then you're paying extra when lower grade olive oil would do fine.
2630 2011-03-11 21:11:28 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2631 2011-03-11 21:11:48 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil#Retail_grades_in_IOC_member_nations
2632 2011-03-11 21:12:18 <genjix> blarzong: put it in a dark place otherwise it'll spoil.
2633 2011-03-11 21:12:29 <genjix> and degrade to a lesser olive oil.
2634 2011-03-11 21:12:42 <blarzong> this stuff has a long shelf life
2635 2011-03-11 21:12:54 <blarzong> its $8.50 / bottle
2636 2011-03-11 21:13:00 <BitterTea> Extra virgin has a low smoking point, which is why it's not great for cooking
2637 2011-03-11 21:13:11 <genjix> blarzong: your loss
2638 2011-03-11 21:13:17 <BitterTea> You can get virgin (I think) or just plain olive oil for cooking (high temps)
2639 2011-03-11 21:13:21 <lfm> it has sex with the ligth so then its not virgin?
2640 2011-03-11 21:13:24 <blarzong> whats my loss?
2641 2011-03-11 21:13:31 amvjob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2642 2011-03-11 21:13:59 <blarzong> are you afraid im going to leave my oil out in the hot sun?
2643 2011-03-11 21:14:36 <genjix> :)
2644 2011-03-11 21:14:38 <Spenvo> was writing a post and my browser told me that the correct spelling of "Zuckerburg" was "bloodsucker"
2645 2011-03-11 21:14:56 <Spenvo> what does it mean?
2646 2011-03-11 21:16:04 <Spenvo> TD: using google's API for custom browser to build a custom bitcoin search - awesome tool!
2647 2011-03-11 21:16:22 <TD> niceness Spenvo
2648 2011-03-11 21:16:23 <Spenvo> *forget "for custom browser"
2649 2011-03-11 21:16:29 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2650 2011-03-11 21:16:50 <Spenvo> will debut monday with my interview of cusipzzz!
2651 2011-03-11 21:17:33 <blarzong> genjix: you should keep your meat in the refrigerator. or it will spoil
2652 2011-03-11 21:17:45 <EvanR-work> cusipzzz, man, i cant wait to hear what he has to say
2653 2011-03-11 21:17:55 <genjix> ok will do.
2654 2011-03-11 21:18:20 <blarzong> and while you're at it, always flush the toilet after dropping a deuce
2655 2011-03-11 21:18:47 <Spenvo> it's hilarious
2656 2011-03-11 21:19:01 <Spenvo> and i ask tough questions, and he's answered them
2657 2011-03-11 21:19:42 <Spenvo> 'nuff plugging, i'll shut up
2658 2011-03-11 21:20:17 <blarzong> olive oil is like wine
2659 2011-03-11 21:20:27 <blarzong> every vintage is different
2660 2011-03-11 21:22:33 <BitterTea> Spenvo: Your first question can be "how do you pronounce that?"
2661 2011-03-11 21:22:56 Bth8 has joined
2662 2011-03-11 21:23:06 <blarzong> try this for $200 / bottle : http://www.speironcompany.com/Text/lambda.html
2663 2011-03-11 21:23:40 <blarzong> they say itll last 4 months from the time you open the bottle
2664 2011-03-11 21:23:49 <Spenvo> Haha, that will have to the bonus question, I've already made him answer 14. But good one!
2665 2011-03-11 21:24:09 <genjix> lol what a site
2666 2011-03-11 21:24:30 <luke-jr> lol
2667 2011-03-11 21:24:33 <luke-jr> sounds like a sca
2668 2011-03-11 21:24:35 <luke-jr> m
2669 2011-03-11 21:24:41 <blarzong> i also found some microwaves and region 4 dvd players if anyones interested
2670 2011-03-11 21:24:56 <luke-jr> blarzong: I don't buy stolen good
2671 2011-03-11 21:24:58 <luke-jr> goods
2672 2011-03-11 21:25:06 <genjix> Spenvo: have you seen sgornick's weekly news reports? might be cool if you teamed up to do a magazine type thing.
2673 2011-03-11 21:25:09 jrabbit has joined
2674 2011-03-11 21:25:15 <blarzong> luke-jr: good, these are not stolen
2675 2011-03-11 21:25:29 <luke-jr> blarzong: you can't just "find" stuff at a supermarket
2676 2011-03-11 21:25:37 <Spenvo> yes, i practically rely on his reports for good up-to-dateness.
2677 2011-03-11 21:25:38 <genjix> luke-jr: sure you can
2678 2011-03-11 21:25:47 <genjix> have you ever heard of freeganism?
2679 2011-03-11 21:25:49 <Spenvo> he runs www.bitcoinnews.com right?
2680 2011-03-11 21:25:54 <blarzong> ppl find stuff all the time.. and it was behind the supermarket
2681 2011-03-11 21:25:54 <genjix> yep
2682 2011-03-11 21:26:04 <AmpEater> freeganism? I like it
2683 2011-03-11 21:26:25 <luke-jr> Spenvo: that stupid page crashes my browser
2684 2011-03-11 21:26:32 <Spenvo> which one? mine?
2685 2011-03-11 21:26:37 <blarzong> ok j/k yall i dont have any olive oil, microwaves, or region 4 dvd players... haha. i wish i did! im totally broke
2686 2011-03-11 21:26:38 <luke-jr> bitcoinnews.com
2687 2011-03-11 21:26:58 <Spenvo> really? that's weird. OMG YOU HAVE A VIRUS
2688 2011-03-11 21:27:06 <luke-jr> no, there's something wrong with the page
2689 2011-03-11 21:27:15 <blarzong> luke-jr: most consumer products are built w/slave labor.. do you have a cellphone?
2690 2011-03-11 21:27:19 <xelister> blarzong: REGION 4 DVD PLA... what? anyone still uses the regions copyright shit?
2691 2011-03-11 21:27:35 <luke-jr> blarzong: I am not opposed to slavery.
2692 2011-03-11 21:27:39 <genjix> ...
2693 2011-03-11 21:27:43 <xelister> luke-jr: ??
2694 2011-03-11 21:27:44 <luke-jr> and no, I don't own a cellphone
2695 2011-03-11 21:27:58 <genjix> arent you a christian tho
2696 2011-03-11 21:28:02 <luke-jr> genjix: yes
2697 2011-03-11 21:28:06 <xelister> blarzong: watch it on a linux like a white person
2698 2011-03-11 21:28:09 <blarzong> if you oppose theft, then you oppose theft of labor. to be consisistent
2699 2011-03-11 21:28:10 <Spenvo> genjix: interesting idea, I'd let him come to me. i wouldn't pester him. he's busy doing meaningful stuff that i don't have to worry about
2700 2011-03-11 21:28:13 <genjix> how can you reconcile those 2 ideas
2701 2011-03-11 21:28:18 <xelister> (dont worry its ok for me to say that because im black :P)
2702 2011-03-11 21:28:20 <luke-jr> blarzong: slavery and theft are two different things
2703 2011-03-11 21:28:26 <blarzong> nope
2704 2011-03-11 21:28:34 <genjix> theft isn't all that bad
2705 2011-03-11 21:28:42 <blarzong> they are different, but both are theft
2706 2011-03-11 21:28:44 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2707 2011-03-11 21:28:45 <genjix> some cases it's justified
2708 2011-03-11 21:28:50 <genjix> slavery is pure evil
2709 2011-03-11 21:28:52 <luke-jr> genjix: if Christianity considered slavery to be evil, there wouldn't have been slavery a long time ago
2710 2011-03-11 21:29:07 <AmpEater> no...there wouldnt have been christianity
2711 2011-03-11 21:29:14 <blarzong> slavery is a type of theft.. you are depriving someone of the free use/benefit of theiir labor/time
2712 2011-03-11 21:29:17 <genjix> isn't it all about loving your number and shit?
2713 2011-03-11 21:29:23 <genjix> like be kind to people
2714 2011-03-11 21:29:26 <luke-jr> blarzong: no you're not
2715 2011-03-11 21:29:33 <blarzong> yes
2716 2011-03-11 21:29:35 <luke-jr> loving your number? O.o
2717 2011-03-11 21:29:36 Bosma has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
2718 2011-03-11 21:29:36 <blarzong> you are
2719 2011-03-11 21:29:40 <genjix> neighbour
2720 2011-03-11 21:29:44 <luke-jr> genjix: slavery is not inherently unkind
2721 2011-03-11 21:29:47 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2722 2011-03-11 21:29:57 <genjix> are you joking
2723 2011-03-11 21:30:04 <genjix> cant tell if trolling me or not...
2724 2011-03-11 21:30:29 <blarzong> < luke-jr> blarzong: I am not opposed to slavery. <--most trollworthy statement of the year?
2725 2011-03-11 21:30:50 jrabbit has joined
2726 2011-03-11 21:30:57 <genjix> slaves are treated like shit. beaten and worthless.
2727 2011-03-11 21:31:28 <luke-jr> genjix: slave abuse != slavery
2728 2011-03-11 21:31:28 <genjix> wanna trade some carrots for this nigger? he's big and strong but a bit dumb.
2729 2011-03-11 21:31:48 <genjix> slave abuse happens the majority of the time
2730 2011-03-11 21:31:55 <genjix> there's a huge power imbalance
2731 2011-03-11 21:33:35 <genjix> fun fact: the ancient persians didn't have slaves. it was illegal. they used paid workers.
2732 2011-03-11 21:34:16 <genjix> slave labour is shit too. you can't get slaves to do anything except the most basic of work and you need guards to coerce them.
2733 2011-03-11 21:35:09 <theymos> It worked pretty well in Rome (until they ran out of slaves).
2734 2011-03-11 21:35:26 philipwhiterm66 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2735 2011-03-11 21:35:56 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2736 2011-03-11 21:37:20 da2ce7 has joined
2737 2011-03-11 21:37:48 <blarzong> hey everyone
2738 2011-03-11 21:37:55 <blarzong> luke-jr is cool w/slavery
2739 2011-03-11 21:38:12 <validus> you realize there is still slaves now?
2740 2011-03-11 21:38:22 <validus> and almost every country had them. has them or used them in the entire world
2741 2011-03-11 21:38:28 <da2ce7> G'day people.
2742 2011-03-11 21:38:35 <validus> but this aint the right place to discuss that
2743 2011-03-11 21:38:38 <genjix> so I see int64 nBalance, COIN ... getbalance uses (double)nBalance / (double)COIN to find the balance.
2744 2011-03-11 21:38:47 <genjix> validus: not true (2nd statement)
2745 2011-03-11 21:38:49 <BitterTea> I think a great analogy for how most people think about states today, is that Greeks could not even imagine a functioning society without slavery.
2746 2011-03-11 21:38:56 <blarzong> validus: how does that contradict what i said
2747 2011-03-11 21:39:06 <blarzong> validus: and why are you stating the obvious
2748 2011-03-11 21:39:09 <genjix> not all countries had slaves
2749 2011-03-11 21:39:24 <blarzong> there are in fact more slaves today than there was at any point in history
2750 2011-03-11 21:39:42 <BitterTea> blarzong: For some definition of slavery?
2751 2011-03-11 21:39:46 <genjix> http://ancienthistory.about.com/b/2007/03/15/ancient-persian-slaves.htm
2752 2011-03-11 21:39:56 <genjix> Two posters on the threads about 300 seemed to say that in the Battle of Thermopylae, the Greeks may have had slaves, but the Persian side (made up of various ethnic groups because it was an imperial army) definitely did not have slaves.
2753 2011-03-11 21:40:08 <blarzong> BitterTea: yes, for the definition which has the most currency
2754 2011-03-11 21:40:11 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2755 2011-03-11 21:40:26 dabron has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2756 2011-03-11 21:40:28 <blarzong> validus: did you know owls are nocturnal?
2757 2011-03-11 21:41:22 <nanotube> guys, try #bitcoin-offtopic
2758 2011-03-11 21:41:24 <validus> theres actually a norm of about 3 - 5 owls outside my apts every nite
2759 2011-03-11 21:41:33 <luke-jr> lol
2760 2011-03-11 21:41:35 <blarzong> cool
2761 2011-03-11 21:41:56 <genjix> nanotube: is there a pressing question about bitcoin happening?
2762 2011-03-11 21:42:04 <genjix> ;P
2763 2011-03-11 21:42:05 BitterTea has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2764 2011-03-11 21:42:30 jrabbit has joined
2765 2011-03-11 21:42:47 <nanotube> genjix: maybe you're discouraging people from jumping in with bitcoin questions, because they see people talking about unrelated stuff like ancient persia. :)
2766 2011-03-11 21:43:10 purpleposeidon has quit (Excess Flood)
2767 2011-03-11 21:43:16 purpleposeidon has joined
2768 2011-03-11 21:43:30 <theymos> genjix: To fix the RPC precision issues, I just replaced all instances of "nValue/COIN" with a call to a function that converts nValue to a string and then moves the decimal the appropriate number of places. Maybe there is a better way to do the actual conversion, but I think strings are the way to go.
2769 2011-03-11 21:43:39 sneak has joined
2770 2011-03-11 21:44:05 sneak is now known as Guest85930
2771 2011-03-11 21:44:37 <genjix> theymos: im doing the same here
2772 2011-03-11 21:45:05 <genjix> what did you use for converting to a string? i'm using boost::lexical_cast<string>(nAmount) but maybe there's something better.
2773 2011-03-11 21:45:28 MartianW has joined
2774 2011-03-11 21:45:59 <theymos> I am not a C++ programmer. Possibly my way is horribly wrong, but I'm using std::stringstream.
2775 2011-03-11 21:46:19 <genjix> kk
2776 2011-03-11 21:46:33 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2777 2011-03-11 21:49:32 <luke-jr> genjix: huh?
2778 2011-03-11 21:50:04 <luke-jr> Spesmilo uses the Decimal type in the tonal branch
2779 2011-03-11 21:50:21 <luke-jr> curiously, the tonal branch fixes a decimal bug :P
2780 2011-03-11 21:50:39 <genjix> not a fix.
2781 2011-03-11 21:50:49 <genjix> json-rpc returns floats.
2782 2011-03-11 21:50:49 <luke-jr> genjix: ?
2783 2011-03-11 21:50:54 <luke-jr> no, it doesn't.
2784 2011-03-11 21:50:58 <luke-jr> it returns Numbers.
2785 2011-03-11 21:51:17 <genjix> it's floats. I checked.
2786 2011-03-11 21:51:20 <luke-jr> unless you mean Python's json-rpc module
2787 2011-03-11 21:51:24 <genjix> yes
2788 2011-03-11 21:51:24 <luke-jr> that does convert them to floats
2789 2011-03-11 21:51:38 <luke-jr> I don't see how it isn't a fix
2790 2011-03-11 21:51:39 <ArtForz> only if you use the broken one ...
2791 2011-03-11 21:51:51 <genjix> so you convert the JSON numbers to Python floats to Python decimal numbers
2792 2011-03-11 21:51:55 <genjix> you already lost.
2793 2011-03-11 21:52:03 <luke-jr> Spesmilo/master shows 4.399999999999 for 4.40 BTC
2794 2011-03-11 21:52:17 <genjix> ArtForz: well *all* of the JSON-RPC libraries are broken.
2795 2011-03-11 21:52:23 <luke-jr> genjix: core_interface converts the float to a raw internal value
2796 2011-03-11 21:52:24 <genjix> Perl/PHP/Python
2797 2011-03-11 21:52:48 <ArtForz> json.loads(... parse_float=decimal.Decimal)
2798 2011-03-11 21:52:51 <luke-jr> genjix: settings converts the raw internal values to human-visible values (BTC or TBC)
2799 2011-03-11 21:52:58 <luke-jr> settings uses Decimal for that
2800 2011-03-11 21:53:06 <luke-jr> ArtForz: now do it with json-rpc
2801 2011-03-11 21:53:33 <ArtForz> not part of std libs, do not care
2802 2011-03-11 21:53:45 <BlueMatt> anyone know anything about updating the osx, win or vc makefiles?
2803 2011-03-11 21:54:34 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: building for Windows is more complex than a makefile
2804 2011-03-11 21:54:54 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I know, but I just wondered if anyone knew how to do it?
2805 2011-03-11 21:55:03 <genjix> ArtForz: and on PHP standard JSON lib?
2806 2011-03-11 21:55:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: either way, what we have now is mergable. OSX/Windows build stuff can be added later
2807 2011-03-11 21:55:11 <luke-jr> âº
2808 2011-03-11 21:55:24 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I disagree, but Ill put in a pull request
2809 2011-03-11 21:55:47 <ArtForz> genjix: and what about libraries that stuff any integer-looking json into a int32?
2810 2011-03-11 21:55:54 Ad0 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2811 2011-03-11 21:55:54 Ad0` has joined
2812 2011-03-11 21:56:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ideally, Windows UPnP should probably use the Windows API
2813 2011-03-11 21:56:30 <luke-jr> ArtForz: they're broken :P
2814 2011-03-11 21:56:31 <ArtForz> honestly, json is so ill-defined, parsers can do pretty much anything they want and still be "compatible"
2815 2011-03-11 21:56:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, its much easier to use the same codebase
2816 2011-03-11 21:56:51 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2817 2011-03-11 21:57:13 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
2818 2011-03-11 21:58:25 <da2ce7> our japan friends all safe?
2819 2011-03-11 21:58:55 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: MagicalTux was this morning, no idea who else lives in japan
2820 2011-03-11 22:01:19 <blarzong> luke-jr: your endorsement of "slavery" is obviously abhorrent. i assume youre a troll who delights in spreading the most extreme and hate-filled speech, or english is not your first language and you don't know what youre saying
2821 2011-03-11 22:01:43 <validus> (03:41:25) (nanotube) guys, try #bitcoin-offtopic
2822 2011-03-11 22:01:52 <luke-jr> blarzong: I didn't endorse it, I merely don't oppose it.
2823 2011-03-11 22:02:04 <validus> change rooms
2824 2011-03-11 22:02:13 <blarzong> same thing. you dont object to it
2825 2011-03-11 22:02:14 <da2ce7> I think that slavery is fine, it is it in a volentary contract.
2826 2011-03-11 22:02:15 <validus> not respond without thinking, which im guilty of as well
2827 2011-03-11 22:02:20 <da2ce7> *if
2828 2011-03-11 22:02:29 <genjix> you're doing to reincarnated as a 8 year old sex slave for an arab prince :p
2829 2011-03-11 22:02:46 <blarzong> are you saying then you don't have an opinion about slavery? that is also a bizarre statement...
2830 2011-03-11 22:02:48 <genjix> g
2831 2011-03-11 22:03:01 Ad0` is now known as Ad0
2832 2011-03-11 22:03:16 <da2ce7> if you are forced to be in slavery, that is wrong...
2833 2011-03-11 22:03:29 <luke-jr> da2ce7: perhaps that is
2834 2011-03-11 22:03:30 <da2ce7> however if you volentarly choose it, then it is ok.
2835 2011-03-11 22:03:46 <jrabbit> lol.
2836 2011-03-11 22:03:51 <blarzong> yeah.. that is the definition of slavery ...
2837 2011-03-11 22:03:52 <validus> so i guess saying go to a diff room to discuss it by someone doesnt mean shit
2838 2011-03-11 22:03:56 <validus> wtf does this have to do with dev
2839 2011-03-11 22:03:58 <validus> or bitcoin
2840 2011-03-11 22:04:07 <genjix> shut up nazi
2841 2011-03-11 22:04:08 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin-offtopic would be more appropriate
2842 2011-03-11 22:04:10 <da2ce7> nothing!
2843 2011-03-11 22:04:15 <validus> theres 2 times now
2844 2011-03-11 22:04:18 <validus> 3rds the charm
2845 2011-03-11 22:04:22 <luke-jr> how much BTC for a slave?
2846 2011-03-11 22:04:30 <luke-jr> anyone want to sell themselves into slavery?
2847 2011-03-11 22:04:41 <luke-jr> validus: problem fixed?
2848 2011-03-11 22:04:41 <validus> luke for once dont be a troll and just move the convo
2849 2011-03-11 22:04:49 <validus> problem fixed with that
2850 2011-03-11 22:04:51 <validus> what*
2851 2011-03-11 22:04:54 <luke-jr> now it's on topic
2852 2011-03-11 22:04:56 <luke-jr> :D
2853 2011-03-11 22:04:59 <genjix> :)
2854 2011-03-11 22:05:06 * da2ce7 thinks we should all go to #bitcoin-urmum
2855 2011-03-11 22:05:08 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: oh god mroe off topic then dev?
2856 2011-03-11 22:05:13 <jrabbit> Scary.
2857 2011-03-11 22:05:28 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: yea, well we really should try to help this and -otc get a bit more on topic
2858 2011-03-11 22:05:36 <validus> i still dont know what problem im supposed to have fixed or your talking about lol
2859 2011-03-11 22:05:39 <BlueMatt> is sad that #bitcoin-discussion is the most bitcoin related channel
2860 2011-03-11 22:05:50 <jrabbit> heh
2861 2011-03-11 22:05:56 <da2ce7> lol *-otc on topic*
2862 2011-03-11 22:05:57 <blarzong> #bitcoin-where-is-satoshi
2863 2011-03-11 22:06:11 <ArtForz> actually #bitcoin-offtopic should be the most bitcoin related channel
2864 2011-03-11 22:06:12 <validus> being anonymous
2865 2011-03-11 22:06:17 <luke-jr> validus: you complained it was off-topic. so I made it on-topic by asking who wanted to sell themselves into slavery for *bitcoins*
2866 2011-03-11 22:06:37 <jrabbit> haha
2867 2011-03-11 22:06:38 <validus> as much as i love smartass comments. but no
2868 2011-03-11 22:07:29 <da2ce7> luke-jr, this is the -dev channel, you should have posted that in -otc
2869 2011-03-11 22:07:34 <lfm> luke likes slavery cuz its in the bible I guess
2870 2011-03-11 22:07:35 <luke-jr> da2ce7: true
2871 2011-03-11 22:07:40 <blarzong> i think luke-jr is a good guy.. i believe hes just trolling to get a rise and isn't really "ambivalent" about the horrors of slavery
2872 2011-03-11 22:08:12 <luke-jr> blarzong: I would probably choose slavery over employment, given the same master/boss.
2873 2011-03-11 22:08:33 <luke-jr> at least with slavery, you're guaranteed room and board
2874 2011-03-11 22:08:37 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2875 2011-03-11 22:09:03 MartianW has joined
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2877 2011-03-11 22:09:06 MartianW has joined
2878 2011-03-11 22:09:21 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
2879 2011-03-11 22:09:23 <jrabbit> its slightly less evil than wage slavery because you don't deny the reality to the slave.
2880 2011-03-11 22:09:25 <da2ce7> if you own yourself, you can sell yourslef.
2881 2011-03-11 22:09:35 <jrabbit> but only slightly.
2882 2011-03-11 22:09:49 <da2ce7> but it is a bit of a stupid thing to do... well at least what i think
2883 2011-03-11 22:10:04 <jrabbit> http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/wilde_soul.html <- Related
2884 2011-03-11 22:10:27 <luke-jr> da2ce7: it might be necessary for a debt, in some cases
2885 2011-03-11 22:11:05 <da2ce7> ah, but nobody can 'force' you to repay your debt... just that you will have very low reputation if you don't repay it,
2886 2011-03-11 22:11:06 <jrabbit> nah you're already a slave unless you are rich enough in this nation to manipulate the reality of the state
2887 2011-03-11 22:11:14 <da2ce7> nobody will give you any credit.
2888 2011-03-11 22:11:34 <da2ce7> and the stupid people for lending you prob will not even trade with you at all anymore.
2889 2011-03-11 22:12:15 <jrabbit> "Just as the worst slave-owners were those who were kind to their slaves, and so prevented the horror of the system being realised by those who suffered from it,"
2890 2011-03-11 22:12:24 Blitzboom has joined
2891 2011-03-11 22:12:35 <luke-jr> da2ce7: if nobody trades with you, you die of hunger
2892 2011-03-11 22:12:57 <bxc> if only there was a way to make mud and sunlight into food
2893 2011-03-11 22:13:04 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/112
2894 2011-03-11 22:13:07 <da2ce7> well that sucks, unless you grow your own food.
2895 2011-03-11 22:13:31 <jrabbit> da2ce7: terrorist :P
2896 2011-03-11 22:13:43 <da2ce7> lol
2897 2011-03-11 22:13:48 <lfm> if only food grew on trees
2898 2011-03-11 22:14:23 <jrabbit> Challenging the authority of the agriculture's big businesses
2899 2011-03-11 22:14:34 <genjix> jrabbit: carl sagan!
2900 2011-03-11 22:14:45 <jrabbit> hm?
2901 2011-03-11 22:15:01 qiq333 has joined
2902 2011-03-11 22:15:14 <qiq333> вÑем пÑивеÑ!
2903 2011-03-11 22:15:16 <genjix> oh nvm... i recognised the quote from carl sagan
2904 2011-03-11 22:15:24 <jrabbit> No lol
2905 2011-03-11 22:15:27 <genjix> turns out it was oscar wilde not carl sagan :p
2906 2011-03-11 22:15:32 <jrabbit> ofc.
2907 2011-03-11 22:15:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: meh, that wasn't a pull and push :P
2908 2011-03-11 22:15:37 <da2ce7> maybe I can plant crops in my back yard, and feed people for bitcoin.
2909 2011-03-11 22:15:39 <da2ce7> :)
2910 2011-03-11 22:15:41 <jrabbit> Though Sagan is pretty close
2911 2011-03-11 22:15:48 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ?
2912 2011-03-11 22:15:50 <blarzong> carl is cool
2913 2011-03-11 22:15:53 <qiq333> а ÑаÑÑкажиÑе как полÑзоваÑÑÑÑ ÑаÑпÑеделÑннÑми клиенÑами?
2914 2011-03-11 22:15:58 <genjix> carl sagan is my hero
2915 2011-03-11 22:16:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: USE_UPNP=1 should be default ;)
2916 2011-03-11 22:16:07 <qiq333> еÑÑÑ Ñ Ð³ÑаÑиÑеÑким инÑеÑÑейÑом?
2917 2011-03-11 22:16:15 <jrabbit> Sagan doesn't think we can advance to interstellar space exploration without economic revolution
2918 2011-03-11 22:16:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: but your original patch always set USE_UPNP even when it wasnt set to begin with
2919 2011-03-11 22:16:24 <jrabbit> which is why hes extra win.
2920 2011-03-11 22:16:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: hence it wasn't actually optional
2921 2011-03-11 22:16:45 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2922 2011-03-11 22:16:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it set USE_UPNP:=1, which makes it DEFAULT to 1
2923 2011-03-11 22:17:02 <luke-jr> to clear it, a simple: make USE_UPNP=
2924 2011-03-11 22:17:05 <da2ce7> qiq333, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_Mining
2925 2011-03-11 22:17:17 <genjix> jrabbit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc
2926 2011-03-11 22:17:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you used ifdef, not if!=1
2927 2011-03-11 22:17:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: also, your branch STILL has the miniupnpc copied into it
2928 2011-03-11 22:17:24 <luke-jr> just later removed
2929 2011-03-11 22:17:28 <jrabbit> genjix: oh yeah lol
2930 2011-03-11 22:17:29 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so?
2931 2011-03-11 22:17:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: â¦
2932 2011-03-11 22:17:31 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2933 2011-03-11 22:17:41 <genjix> jrabbit: because of carl sagan, my sister is studying astrophysics
2934 2011-03-11 22:17:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: USE_UPNP= <-- no UPnP support at all
2935 2011-03-11 22:17:53 <genjix> im thinking of joining her :p
2936 2011-03-11 22:17:53 <jrabbit> hah awesome
2937 2011-03-11 22:17:55 <blarzong> slavery is an abhorrent concept.. but these days most of the products on walmart shelves are made with slave labor. most cell phones are the product of forced child labor in coltan mines
2938 2011-03-11 22:18:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: USE_UPNP=0 <-- UPnP support compiled, but disabled unless you use --upnp
2939 2011-03-11 22:18:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: USE_UPNP=1 <-- UPnP support compiled, and enabled unless you use --noupnp
2940 2011-03-11 22:18:12 <qiq333> da2ce7, thnx!
2941 2011-03-11 22:18:26 <da2ce7> qiq333, https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0
2942 2011-03-11 22:18:29 <jrabbit> blarzong: you have an odd definition of slavery.
2943 2011-03-11 22:18:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: USE_UPNP= unset it, hence when makefile runs it sets it to 1
2944 2011-03-11 22:18:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, you don't understand makefile format
2945 2011-03-11 22:18:43 <blarzong> by odd you mean universally accepted?
2946 2011-03-11 22:18:49 <blarzong> you have an odd definition of odd
2947 2011-03-11 22:18:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: USE_UPNP= sets it to a null value
2948 2011-03-11 22:18:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh, ok well maybe I am, but it didnt work for me
2949 2011-03-11 22:19:11 <luke-jr> make USE_UPNP=
2950 2011-03-11 22:19:12 <luke-jr> not
2951 2011-03-11 22:19:15 <luke-jr> USE_UPNP= make
2952 2011-03-11 22:19:56 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
2953 2011-03-11 22:19:56 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.9329,"low":0.8512,"vol":9077,"buy":0.879,"sell":0.9099,"last":0.905}}
2954 2011-03-11 22:20:00 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
2955 2011-03-11 22:20:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113187 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1724 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 14 hours, 7 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67546.89481630
2956 2011-03-11 22:20:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: in any case if we dont use a configure file to determine if its already installed it shouldnt be on by default
2957 2011-03-11 22:20:16 <jrabbit> genjix: I think watching cosmos I fdinally understood what Oppenhiemer meant
2958 2011-03-11 22:20:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: anyhow, when problems like this crop up, standard practice is to rewrite the entire branch
2959 2011-03-11 22:20:44 <luke-jr> not add fixes on top of the existing stuff
2960 2011-03-11 22:20:56 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh...well if its a big deal I could do that?
2961 2011-03-11 22:21:06 <jrabbit> "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Which in hindu mythology actually signifies the renewal cycle
2962 2011-03-11 22:21:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ideally keeping my working makefile.unix ;)
2963 2011-03-11 22:21:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, so redo the branch, will do...
2964 2011-03-11 22:22:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: another flaw I noticed, though: I suspect the shutdown-remove-port-mapping code is bugged
2965 2011-03-11 22:22:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: worked fine for me when I tested it
2966 2011-03-11 22:22:17 <luke-jr> should probably just add it to the ordinary shutdown procedure in the main thread
2967 2011-03-11 22:22:27 <luke-jr> "worked fine" != "works correctly"
2968 2011-03-11 22:22:32 <blarzong> http://www.freetheslaves.net/
2969 2011-03-11 22:22:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: works the same as the sample code, etc
2970 2011-03-11 22:23:06 <jrabbit> blarzong: slavery is broader then that
2971 2011-03-11 22:23:38 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: whats the difference of the shutdown procedure to leaving it in the thread?
2972 2011-03-11 22:23:41 <jrabbit> there is no difference between slavery and wage-slavery other than pervieced freedom and conditions
2973 2011-03-11 22:23:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: well, will that thread wake up sooner than 2000 seconds when it exits?
2974 2011-03-11 22:24:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: thats 2 seconds
2975 2011-03-11 22:24:14 <jrabbit> You cannot end that slavery without abolishing the greater slavery.
2976 2011-03-11 22:24:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: does the main thread not take more than 2 seconds to close anyway?
2977 2011-03-11 22:24:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if so, that's even worse
2978 2011-03-11 22:24:55 <luke-jr> I would sure hope not
2979 2011-03-11 22:24:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: it takes more than that for me
2980 2011-03-11 22:25:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the problem is should I really make all those variables global
2981 2011-03-11 22:25:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if that's 2 seconds, that means my CPU wakes up every 2 seconds for nothing
2982 2011-03-11 22:25:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: as do several other threads
2983 2011-03-11 22:25:41 <luke-jr> nothing should be global, probably
2984 2011-03-11 22:25:51 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2985 2011-03-11 22:25:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: then there are already a lot of bugs to fix
2986 2011-03-11 22:25:54 <luke-jr> no need to add more :/
2987 2011-03-11 22:25:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: which means putting it in the main shutdown thread would take even longer
2988 2011-03-11 22:26:02 <blarzong> jrabbit: i agree wage slavery is also evil. but a child being physically tortured and forced to dig naked in a mine to find materials for cell phones is one particular type of horror
2989 2011-03-11 22:26:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, ordered processing is faster than multitasking
2990 2011-03-11 22:26:17 amiller has joined
2991 2011-03-11 22:26:26 <jrabbit> blarzong: sure but its only marginally different
2992 2011-03-11 22:26:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I was referring to the requirement of rescanning for the router, etc
2993 2011-03-11 22:26:45 <jrabbit> Why focus on that form of slavery?
2994 2011-03-11 22:26:48 <Kiba> there's no such thing as wageslavery
2995 2011-03-11 22:26:59 <jrabbit> Kiba: then there is no slavery.
2996 2011-03-11 22:27:21 <blarzong> jrabbit: theyre both horrible, but mortality is much higher with one form than other. yes, its the difference between being in dantes 9th circle of hell vs. being in the 8th circle
2997 2011-03-11 22:27:24 <Kiba> jrabbit: working for a wage is not slavery, no matter how low it is
2998 2011-03-11 22:27:28 <blarzong> degrees of infinite horror
2999 2011-03-11 22:27:42 <jrabbit> Kiba: Then you have to pretend the harshest crueties man can afford others are "voulentary"
3000 2011-03-11 22:27:53 Diablo-D3 has joined
3001 2011-03-11 22:27:54 <jrabbit> Kiba: such as $0
3002 2011-03-11 22:28:04 <jrabbit> Or you know working for a debt
3003 2011-03-11 22:28:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: pretty sure there's a sleep-until-another-thread-wakes-me-up
3004 2011-03-11 22:28:15 <jrabbit> like all of the slaves in north america for a while
3005 2011-03-11 22:28:16 <Kiba> jrabbit: well..I prefer not to die.
3006 2011-03-11 22:28:23 <Kiba> there's death, and there's a life, barely
3007 2011-03-11 22:28:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: will look at other threads in a minute
3008 2011-03-11 22:28:38 <Kiba> I would chose to work in a sweatshop
3009 2011-03-11 22:28:46 <jrabbit> Lol.
3010 2011-03-11 22:28:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: when I try your makefile with export USE_UPNP= it makes with upnp
3011 2011-03-11 22:28:51 <Kiba> rather than die
3012 2011-03-11 22:28:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I didn't say export anythign
3013 2011-03-11 22:29:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's not how you use make
3014 2011-03-11 22:29:06 <blarzong> wage slavery is also an immense global evil... but being a traditional slave is mcuh more deadly
3015 2011-03-11 22:29:07 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, how?
3016 2011-03-11 22:29:12 <luke-jr> make USE_UPNP=
3017 2011-03-11 22:29:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah
3018 2011-03-11 22:29:24 <Kiba> to exterminate "wage slavery", all you have to do is increase productivity
3019 2011-03-11 22:29:28 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: sorry Im used to ./configure --with-xxxxx
3020 2011-03-11 22:29:30 <jrabbit> blarzong: oh definitely
3021 2011-03-11 22:29:43 <jrabbit> blarzong: one is psychological and the other is physical
3022 2011-03-11 22:29:58 <luke-jr> Kiba: it doesn't have to be exterminated. neither does slavery.
3023 2011-03-11 22:30:15 <jrabbit> but what i'm saying is the abstracted violence is at the core similar
3024 2011-03-11 22:30:15 <blarzong> agriculture is 1000x more productive that it was.. we are living in a time of artificial scarcity.. we have all the resources we need for ppl to retire after 1 year of work
3025 2011-03-11 22:30:26 <blarzong> the problem is sociological
3026 2011-03-11 22:30:42 <Kiba> the problem is that people keep raising the living standard
3027 2011-03-11 22:30:45 <Kiba> so they end up working for more
3028 2011-03-11 22:30:54 <jrabbit> Kiba: lol.
3029 2011-03-11 22:31:03 <jrabbit> Kiba: only in a labor market.
3030 2011-03-11 22:31:03 <Kiba> we're extremely prosperous as far as human history is concerned
3031 2011-03-11 22:31:11 <jrabbit> Kiba: not "we"
3032 2011-03-11 22:31:19 <jrabbit> first world nations yes
3033 2011-03-11 22:31:26 <jrabbit> and they feel horrible about it
3034 2011-03-11 22:31:29 qiq333 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3035 2011-03-11 22:31:31 <jrabbit> they are not happy.
3036 2011-03-11 22:31:44 <Kiba> I don't feel horrible for being in a first world country
3037 2011-03-11 22:32:00 <luke-jr> stfu and find a block plz kthx
3038 2011-03-11 22:32:14 <jrabbit> Kiba: the western public is less happy now than it was in 1950s
3039 2011-03-11 22:32:30 <jrabbit> despite having twice the PPP
3040 2011-03-11 22:32:32 <Kiba> jrabbit: so? Why should I care about other people's happiness other than my family and friends?
3041 2011-03-11 22:32:42 <jrabbit> Kiba: you'd be happier in the 1950s.
3042 2011-03-11 22:32:52 <Kiba> jrabbit: we can't find out
3043 2011-03-11 22:32:57 <jrabbit> sure we can
3044 2011-03-11 22:33:05 <Kiba> no time travel capability possible
3045 2011-03-11 22:33:14 sshc_ has joined
3046 2011-03-11 22:33:27 <jrabbit> its a well studied problem in emotional psych
3047 2011-03-11 22:33:39 Guest65791 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3048 2011-03-11 22:34:06 <luke-jr> I'd be happier in the 900s :P
3049 2011-03-11 22:34:08 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3050 2011-03-11 22:34:24 topace has joined
3051 2011-03-11 22:34:47 <jrabbit> anywho
3052 2011-03-11 22:34:53 <Kiba> jrabbit: nonetheless, I am commited to increasing prosperity
3053 2011-03-11 22:34:53 <jrabbit> our productivity does not make us happy
3054 2011-03-11 22:35:01 <Kiba> hence, productivity
3055 2011-03-11 22:35:11 <jrabbit> Kiba: it won't make you any happier
3056 2011-03-11 22:35:20 <jrabbit> unless you compare yourself to poor people
3057 2011-03-11 22:35:23 <Kiba> so? happy is just a pyschological state, an emotion. It's fleeting.
3058 2011-03-11 22:35:26 <jrabbit> or were previously quite poor
3059 2011-03-11 22:35:47 <Kiba> I was previously poor ;)
3060 2011-03-11 22:35:56 <Kiba> but my endgoal is not pyschological happiness
3061 2011-03-11 22:35:59 alystair has joined
3062 2011-03-11 22:36:33 <jrabbit> then you're a monster in basically every philosophical camp n_n
3063 2011-03-11 22:36:47 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3064 2011-03-11 22:36:51 <Kiba> death is an evil that must be exterminated
3065 2011-03-11 22:36:59 <luke-jr> death is not evil
3066 2011-03-11 22:37:02 <Kiba> so is sickness
3067 2011-03-11 22:37:04 <jrabbit> why for if you;'re not happy
3068 2011-03-11 22:37:07 <Kiba> luke-jr: whatever, death lover
3069 2011-03-11 22:37:21 <KuT-Sickness> wat
3070 2011-03-11 22:37:23 <jrabbit> I'd rather die a real life then lead an indefinite fake one
3071 2011-03-11 22:37:29 <genjix> fuck yeah
3072 2011-03-11 22:37:41 <Kiba> jrabbit: good for you.
3073 2011-03-11 22:37:42 <jrabbit> that said I have no intentions of dying
3074 2011-03-11 22:37:45 <genjix> bang loads of hotties and travel rather than slave to a desk
3075 2011-03-11 22:38:22 <Kiba> I am not so concerned with death of myself as much as death of others around me
3076 2011-03-11 22:38:32 <Kiba> I figure that I won't be able to suffer after death anyway
3077 2011-03-11 22:38:41 <genjix> i dont give a shit
3078 2011-03-11 22:39:03 <jrabbit> death is the only equalizer we have at this time.
3079 2011-03-11 22:39:03 <genjix> this has very little to do with bitcoin and isn't intellectually demanding
3080 2011-03-11 22:39:18 <genjix> just a bunch of pseudo philosophical statements.
3081 2011-03-11 22:39:29 <Kiba> there's have-nows, and there's have-later
3082 2011-03-11 22:41:38 <jrabbit> genjix: only because Kiba has redirected the conversation aweay from his acceptance of many forms of slavery
3083 2011-03-11 22:41:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/113
3084 2011-03-11 22:41:58 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: finally one that looks good?
3085 2011-03-11 22:41:58 <Kiba> "wage slavery" is not slavery
3086 2011-03-11 22:43:02 <euclid> slave slavery is not slavery
3087 2011-03-11 22:43:39 <jrabbit> http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3 goddamnit there goes the nuclear option
3088 2011-03-11 22:44:03 Jeroenz0r has quit ()
3089 2011-03-11 22:44:03 <jrabbit> Kiba: indefinite servitiude has wages too
3090 2011-03-11 22:45:00 <Kiba> must be voluntary, not coerced through violence
3091 2011-03-11 22:45:02 Jeroenz0r has joined
3092 2011-03-11 22:45:02 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
3093 2011-03-11 22:45:02 Jeroenz0r has joined
3094 2011-03-11 22:45:15 <jrabbit> Kiba: alot of the white slavery was
3095 2011-03-11 22:45:16 <Kiba> thus, by definition, there is no such thing as wage slavery
3096 2011-03-11 22:45:34 <jrabbit> not that it was any better in terms of brutality
3097 2011-03-11 22:45:47 <Kiba> jrabbit: brutuality is defined as violence and coercision
3098 2011-03-11 22:46:17 AmpEater has joined
3099 2011-03-11 22:46:28 <lfm> ya like if a 13 year old signs a billion year contract, thats not slavery cuz its voluntary
3100 2011-03-11 22:46:41 <Kiba> I rest my case.
3101 2011-03-11 22:47:07 <jrabbit> lfm: apperantly
3102 2011-03-11 22:47:33 <jrabbit> its too bad people think human slavery can be justified
3103 2011-03-11 22:47:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: nevermind for the nth time, will fix
3104 2011-03-11 22:48:16 <Kiba> hmm? I just have a rather strict definition that I am satisifed with.
3105 2011-03-11 22:48:38 <Kiba> if we own our body, then we have the right to make contract and enter into employment without interference
3106 2011-03-11 22:48:48 <Kiba> from third party
3107 2011-03-11 22:49:48 <Kiba> and I do not like intereference from third parties who think my relationship with the employer is exploitative.
3108 2011-03-11 22:52:36 <Kiba> only the involved parties can initate moral justification as they are in a relationship while third parties are not.
3109 2011-03-11 22:52:40 <Kiba> moral judgement*
3110 2011-03-11 22:54:29 <jrabbit> so if a slave decided he was being exploited he could do what
3111 2011-03-11 22:54:48 <jrabbit> "help help I'm being repressed?"
3112 2011-03-11 22:56:18 <Kiba> then it's on the third parties to determine if the relationship were indeed exploitative
3113 2011-03-11 22:56:28 <Kiba> and hence initate actions
3114 2011-03-11 22:56:47 <jrabbit> 60.588 < Kiba> and I do not like intereference from third parties who think my relationship with the employer is exploitative.
3115 2011-03-11 22:57:09 <jrabbit> how the fuck does that work
3116 2011-03-11 22:57:12 <Kiba> because I had determine it was not exploitative
3117 2011-03-11 22:57:14 <Kiba> get the difference?
3118 2011-03-11 22:57:26 <jrabbit> and if you realize it is eventually?
3119 2011-03-11 22:57:32 <jrabbit> you cannot break a cotnract...
3120 2011-03-11 22:58:04 <Kiba> don't forget the other side
3121 2011-03-11 22:58:33 <jrabbit> thats hilarious.
3122 2011-03-11 22:58:39 <Kiba> hilarious?
3123 2011-03-11 22:58:40 <Kiba> hardly
3124 2011-03-11 22:59:31 <Kiba> I do not like people like you, jrabbit, determine moral judgement on my relationship like that.
3125 2011-03-11 22:59:57 <jrabbit> so you can sell yourself into slavery but only if you think its right?
3126 2011-03-11 23:00:14 <Kiba> it's a right.
3127 2011-03-11 23:00:20 * jrabbit would enjoy greatly for such people to live in their culture
3128 2011-03-11 23:00:43 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
3129 2011-03-11 23:00:54 <Kiba> as a matter of fact, I told a forum goer an "Fuck you" rant
3130 2011-03-11 23:00:57 <Kiba> about such matter
3131 2011-03-11 23:01:40 <jrabbit> Kiba: so sell yourself into slavery?
3132 2011-03-11 23:01:52 <Kiba> I never sold myself to slavery, only work for really low wages
3133 2011-03-11 23:01:54 Lachesis has joined
3134 2011-03-11 23:01:58 <jrabbit> I hear Foxcon is hiring.
3135 2011-03-11 23:02:38 <BlueMatt> are you guys still on this whole slave thing?
3136 2011-03-11 23:03:04 <genjix> they're lawyering over the minor details or their respective moralistic systems
3137 2011-03-11 23:03:14 <genjix> of
3138 2011-03-11 23:03:16 <BlueMatt> wow that is off topic
3139 2011-03-11 23:03:28 <genjix> shut up :p
3140 2011-03-11 23:03:38 <jrabbit> topic is overrated
3141 2011-03-11 23:04:06 <BlueMatt> some people like a quiet channel so that they can focus or at least be able to comment on the stuff that actually matters
3142 2011-03-11 23:04:43 <lfm> some people like a quiet channel so they can do something else
3143 2011-03-11 23:05:16 <genjix> /part
3144 2011-03-11 23:05:25 <Kiba> I just want to get paid for my work.
3145 2011-03-11 23:06:15 <Kiba> I don't want
3146 2011-03-11 23:06:18 <Kiba> to die
3147 2011-03-11 23:06:22 <Kiba> so I took it seriously
3148 2011-03-11 23:07:13 <lfm> did someone say they wanna die?
3149 2011-03-11 23:07:28 <genjix> i bet you're the kind of people who go to parties and complain about the music while everyone's having fun
3150 2011-03-11 23:07:39 <Kiba> genjix: quite the opposite.
3151 2011-03-11 23:07:41 <lfm> ya music sucks
3152 2011-03-11 23:07:50 <genjix> :D
3153 2011-03-11 23:08:37 <blarzong> hmm the "Edit HTML" and "Delete Element" menu options are right next to each other in firebug
3154 2011-03-11 23:08:45 <blarzong> i just deleted something oops
3155 2011-03-11 23:09:13 <Kiba> genjix: I enjoy the eating an drinking more than the social part though
3156 2011-03-11 23:09:15 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3157 2011-03-11 23:09:39 <justmoon> are there any plans, any current interest in developing a way that allows users to send messages together with their transactions in the official client? (for normal, non-ip tx obviously)
3158 2011-03-11 23:10:58 <lfm> justmoon: there was a thing for putting a message with a txn but it is being thrown out. it was in the transaction to an ip address
3159 2011-03-11 23:11:21 <justmoon> lfm: yeah I was asking about a way for non-ip tx
3160 2011-03-11 23:11:41 <lfm> there has never been and I hope never will be messages in the block chain
3161 2011-03-11 23:12:11 <ArtForz> lfm: agree
3162 2011-03-11 23:12:15 <justmoon> doesn't have to be in the block chain a DHT would work fine for storing messages, they could be signed with the private key of the sender
3163 2011-03-11 23:12:34 <lfm> justmoon: you mean like send an email?
3164 2011-03-11 23:12:45 <justmoon> lfm: look up DHT
3165 2011-03-11 23:13:27 <justmoon> with a DHT you sort of store the message in the network and the recipient can retrieve it next time he comes online
3166 2011-03-11 23:13:34 <lfm> DHT Holdings Inc (NYSE)??
3167 2011-03-11 23:13:40 <justmoon> it's the basis for decentralized bittorrent for example
3168 2011-03-11 23:13:44 <justmoon> distributed hash tables
3169 2011-03-11 23:14:03 <justmoon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table
3170 2011-03-11 23:14:16 bitjet has joined
3171 2011-03-11 23:14:29 <lfm> justmoon: um I dont think bitcoin works that way
3172 2011-03-11 23:14:51 <luke-jr> justmoon: it is possible to do, but only I would encode it, and no client supports it
3173 2011-03-11 23:15:10 <justmoon> lfm: no, but you could implement messaging this way without messing with the block chain
3174 2011-03-11 23:15:20 <luke-jr> justmoon: this is a good idea
3175 2011-03-11 23:15:29 <lfm> better than email?
3176 2011-03-11 23:15:44 <vrs> mail embedded in btc transaction would eliminate the spam problem too
3177 2011-03-11 23:15:47 <vrs> +s
3178 2011-03-11 23:16:00 <justmoon> lfm: how would you implement email in the bitcoin client? have people set up their smtp server?
3179 2011-03-11 23:16:11 <vrs> say you only read messages 'worth' over a certain amount
3180 2011-03-11 23:16:24 <luke-jr> justmoon: *nix has a 'mail' command for that
3181 2011-03-11 23:16:27 <lfm> they would tell you their email address at the same time they tell you the bitcoin address
3182 2011-03-11 23:16:28 <bitjet> Hey guys quick question: Is there a program I can use to encrypt only a specific file and compress it into a self extracting file that provides good encryption? possibly one that is accesable through the windows contex menu?
3183 2011-03-11 23:16:45 <vrs> 7z has this afaik
3184 2011-03-11 23:16:57 <lfm> bitjet: zip -e
3185 2011-03-11 23:17:27 <bitjet> lfm: 7zip?
3186 2011-03-11 23:17:44 <lfm> 7zip is for mswin I think. I use linux
3187 2011-03-11 23:17:55 <luke-jr> lfm: 7zip is free software
3188 2011-03-11 23:18:01 <luke-jr> zip is probably cracked by now
3189 2011-03-11 23:18:12 <vrs> lfm: bitjet was asking for a windows solution
3190 2011-03-11 23:18:26 <lfm> i think 7zip uses the pkzip encryption same as linux zip
3191 2011-03-11 23:18:38 <luke-jr> lfm: erm, 7zip has no format relation to zip
3192 2011-03-11 23:18:39 <bitjet> correct. how strong would you think the encryption would be on 7z?
3193 2011-03-11 23:18:46 <luke-jr> 7zip is a form of LZMA
3194 2011-03-11 23:18:58 <lfm> luke-jrso is zip
3195 2011-03-11 23:19:05 <justmoon> "7-Zip also supports encryption with AES-256 algorithm."
3196 2011-03-11 23:19:11 <luke-jr> lfm: ZIP sucks compared to tar.gz
3197 2011-03-11 23:19:15 <luke-jr> LZMA beats bzip2
3198 2011-03-11 23:19:21 <justmoon> source: http://www.7-zip.org/7z.html
3199 2011-03-11 23:19:24 <JFK911> tar is pretty weak
3200 2011-03-11 23:19:31 <JFK911> cpio does a better job at keeping modes and stuff
3201 2011-03-11 23:19:42 <bitjet> justmoon; went there I just have no idea how secure that format is
3202 2011-03-11 23:19:50 <luke-jr> JFK911: how about ACLs?
3203 2011-03-11 23:19:59 <JFK911> acl's arent part of unix
3204 2011-03-11 23:20:09 <lfm> anyway theres all sorts of file encryption utils, many also compress
3205 2011-03-11 23:20:17 <luke-jr> JFK911: yes they are
3206 2011-03-11 23:20:21 <JFK911> no they aren't
3207 2011-03-11 23:20:26 <luke-jr> if by unix you mean POSXI
3208 2011-03-11 23:20:28 <luke-jr> POSIX*
3209 2011-03-11 23:20:35 <JFK911> yeah the purple book is a good start
3210 2011-03-11 23:20:41 <luke-jr> if you mean real UNIX, then nobody uses it
3211 2011-03-11 23:20:44 <justmoon> bitjet: it's plenty secure, don't worry
3212 2011-03-11 23:21:03 <bitjet> im reading up on it now
3213 2011-03-11 23:21:17 <bitjet> seems pretty effective
3214 2011-03-11 23:21:54 <justmoon> I don't wanna say it's the best, but it's basically state of the art mainstream battlehardened encryption
3215 2011-03-11 23:22:46 <bitjet> cool. Im sure with a 25character password it would be pretty tough to get through
3216 2011-03-11 23:23:15 <bitjet> you know. I just have to back up my 1mil in bitcoin
3217 2011-03-11 23:23:24 <bitjet> ^^ i wish.
3218 2011-03-11 23:24:05 <luke-jr> bitjet: 25 char? where are you writing it?
3219 2011-03-11 23:24:13 <lfm> /msg bitjet dont worry, I wont tell anyone you are real Satoshi
3220 2011-03-11 23:24:16 <lfm> oops
3221 2011-03-11 23:24:20 <bitjet> hahahah
3222 2011-03-11 23:24:36 <bitjet> I dont think satoshi would have to ask about encryption ;)
3223 2011-03-11 23:24:44 <justmoon> bitjet: good point
3224 2011-03-11 23:24:52 <justmoon> unless...
3225 2011-03-11 23:24:53 <bitjet> luke: Im not yet.
3226 2011-03-11 23:24:57 <luke-jr> but he would, just to make us think it isn't him
3227 2011-03-11 23:24:59 <justmoon> he wanted to make us think he's not satoshi
3228 2011-03-11 23:25:06 <justmoon> exactly
3229 2011-03-11 23:25:08 <justmoon> :P
3230 2011-03-11 23:25:23 <luke-jr> when Satoshi comes back, he's going to find himself with a God-like status among some people :/
3231 2011-03-11 23:25:23 <bitjet> he's soo sneaky.
3232 2011-03-11 23:25:39 <justmoon> luke-jr: god-"like"?
3233 2011-03-11 23:26:08 <justmoon> I don't know about you guys, but what luke-jr just said sounded like blasphemy against the High One.
3234 2011-03-11 23:26:16 <jrabbit> lol.
3235 2011-03-11 23:27:43 <genjix> that's not blasphemy...
3236 2011-03-11 23:28:49 <Kiba> everybody knows that Satoshi is pretending not to be satoshi. That way, nobody knows if he is really satoshi or not. Ingenious!
3237 2011-03-11 23:29:06 <Kiba> I know you know I know.
3238 2011-03-11 23:29:07 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3239 2011-03-11 23:30:02 molecular has joined
3240 2011-03-11 23:30:06 <da2ce7> kiba, maybe satoshi left back to his home on his spaceship
3241 2011-03-11 23:32:29 nextnonce has joined
3242 2011-03-11 23:32:29 <luke-jr> Satoshi is really anonymous just because he doesn't want to risk everyone leaving when he introduced Tonal support
3243 2011-03-11 23:32:31 <luke-jr> <.<
3244 2011-03-11 23:33:32 <luke-jr> j/k :p
3245 2011-03-11 23:34:43 phantomcircuit has joined
3246 2011-03-11 23:34:56 <bitjet> I just hope satoshi didnt get crushed by falling buildings or run down by a tsunami!
3247 2011-03-11 23:35:28 <justmoon> bitjet: satoshi is from the US
3248 2011-03-11 23:35:37 <bitjet> im just saying
3249 2011-03-11 23:35:53 <bitjet> maybe hes been in japan searching for the meaning of life or somthign.
3250 2011-03-11 23:35:57 <phantomcircuit> japan has easily the highest earthquake building standards in the world
3251 2011-03-11 23:36:22 <phantomcircuit> they spent like a trillion dollars in the early 90s on tsunami redirection around tokyo
3252 2011-03-11 23:36:28 <phantomcircuit> i think they'll be mostly fine
3253 2011-03-11 23:36:43 <justmoon> wow, back then a trillion was a lot of money
3254 2011-03-11 23:37:01 <Netsniper> after godzilla tore down tokyo, they built it back better, stronger
3255 2011-03-11 23:38:09 <justmoon> is blockexplorer open source?
3256 2011-03-11 23:41:05 malfy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3257 2011-03-11 23:41:18 <jgarzik> justmoon: no
3258 2011-03-11 23:41:29 <luke-jr> justmoon: I wish
3259 2011-03-11 23:41:48 <justmoon> but it doesn't have dos protection right? :]
3260 2011-03-11 23:41:48 <luke-jr> justmoon: eventually I hope to have all BE's functionality in a UI though :P
3261 2011-03-11 23:42:15 <jgarzik> justmoon: why are you asking?
3262 2011-03-11 23:42:59 <justmoon> I want to do a webservice that allows you to send an array of addresses and the server will reply the balance, and you can also send a transaction and the server will relay it to the network
3263 2011-03-11 23:43:18 <justmoon> getting the balance for an address that's not your own is the part i'm struggeling with
3264 2011-03-11 23:45:12 <jgarzik> justmoon: read the block chain locally
3265 2011-03-11 23:46:24 <justmoon> jgarzik: are there any docs on the format?
3266 2011-03-11 23:46:27 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
3267 2011-03-11 23:46:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113189 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1722 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66871.69931180
3268 2011-03-11 23:46:58 <jgarzik> justmoon: no
3269 2011-03-11 23:47:03 mmarker has joined
3270 2011-03-11 23:47:07 mmarker has quit (Changing host)
3271 2011-03-11 23:47:07 mmarker has joined
3272 2011-03-11 23:47:30 <phantomcircuit> justmoon, https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt
3273 2011-03-11 23:47:44 <phantomcircuit> justmoon, all you have to do is add tx chain support and magic you're in business
3274 2011-03-11 23:48:26 <justmoon> phantomcircuit: thanks I'll take a look
3275 2011-03-11 23:49:15 <blarzong> ;;bc,blocks
3276 2011-03-11 23:49:16 <gribble> 113189
3277 2011-03-11 23:49:31 sjuxax has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3278 2011-03-11 23:49:48 sjuxax has joined
3279 2011-03-11 23:50:58 ovatrk has joined
3280 2011-03-11 23:52:39 <midnightmagic> lfm: isn't there a message encoded into the genesis block? :)
3281 2011-03-11 23:52:55 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, lol yes there is
3282 2011-03-11 23:53:30 <mmarker> Yup
3283 2011-03-11 23:53:33 <euclid> phantomcircuit, row row fight the powa?
3284 2011-03-11 23:53:33 <mmarker> read the code!
3285 2011-03-11 23:53:35 <midnightmagic> so i guess the hope that messages never make it into the block chain is mooted.
3286 2011-03-11 23:53:48 <mmarker> Well, that block is a special case
3287 2011-03-11 23:53:51 <mmarker> :D
3288 2011-03-11 23:55:27 <midnightmagic> i intend to encode my own message into the blockchain :)
3289 2011-03-11 23:55:44 <midnightmagic> don't worry, it'll be short and unintelligible.
3290 2011-03-11 23:56:04 * midnightmagic ducks the tomatoes.
3291 2011-03-11 23:56:33 <mmarker> Heh. The message when decrypted reads: "Mars Needs Women"
3292 2011-03-11 23:59:54 <genjix> what does that mean?