1 2011-03-13 00:01:36 javagamer has joined
2 2011-03-13 00:03:34 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3 2011-03-13 00:04:14 theorbtwo has joined
4 2011-03-13 00:05:22 <blarzong> i like lettuce
5 2011-03-13 00:05:24 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
6 2011-03-13 00:06:27 defaced has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
7 2011-03-13 00:06:48 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, a lot of that stuff is export restricted to keep the prices artificially low here
8 2011-03-13 00:07:41 <ArtForz> no, not really
9 2011-03-13 00:08:17 <ArtForz> you can check the export restriction codes agianst the official lists and find the reason for the restriction
10 2011-03-13 00:08:25 <aaa3> blarzong, whatsup
11 2011-03-13 00:08:28 <ArtForz> gfor this stuff, it's "national security" ...
12 2011-03-13 00:08:39 <phantomcircuit> yeah right
13 2011-03-13 00:08:56 <blarzong> not much brough
14 2011-03-13 00:09:58 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15 2011-03-13 00:11:44 TheKid has joined
16 2011-03-13 00:14:56 <blarzong> http://www.wpacracker.com/
17 2011-03-13 00:15:45 <genjix> lol when i was a kid i bought chemicals off some random site on the net
18 2011-03-13 00:15:49 <genjix> and made explosives
19 2011-03-13 00:15:53 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
20 2011-03-13 00:16:00 <genjix> the site no longer exists though :p
21 2011-03-13 00:16:05 <ArtForz> blarzong: old news, also, slow as fuck
22 2011-03-13 00:16:28 <ArtForz> their "cluster" has about the performanc of a single 5970
23 2011-03-13 00:16:38 <genjix> i stopped doing that after this happened: http://www.flickr.com/photos/genjix/476029641/
24 2011-03-13 00:16:40 <xelister> Oo< LOL single 5970
25 2011-03-13 00:16:40 <blarzong> relaly? wow.. didnt realize there was such a disparity
26 2011-03-13 00:16:44 <genjix> http://www.flickr.com/photos/genjix/476029645/
27 2011-03-13 00:16:51 <genjix> nearly blew my face off...
28 2011-03-13 00:17:04 * xelister calls FBI
29 2011-03-13 00:17:23 <ArtForz> 284 million words, 55 minutes, thats 86k PW/sec
30 2011-03-13 00:17:35 <genjix> (i went to get a banana and it blew up... banana saved me :> )
31 2011-03-13 00:17:50 <xelister> lol
32 2011-03-13 00:18:07 <xelister> did you ate it anyway?
33 2011-03-13 00:18:08 <noagendamarket> the bitcoin network could crack passwords pretty fast :)
34 2011-03-13 00:18:10 <ArtForz> pyrit-calpp on a 5970 does about that
35 2011-03-13 00:18:58 <xelister> you ate the banana anyway didnt you, ungreatfull bitch :{
36 2011-03-13 00:19:41 <ArtForz> actually, a lot more with a proper setup
37 2011-03-13 00:19:54 <blarzong> 5970 is super fast wow
38 2011-03-13 00:19:55 <ArtForz> > 130k PMK/s at stock clocks
39 2011-03-13 00:20:26 <ArtForz> so... their cluster is about as fast as a single 5870 *headdesk*
40 2011-03-13 00:21:45 <lolcat> What cluster of what?
41 2011-03-13 00:21:53 <sipa> 01:14:49 < blarzong> http://www.wpacracker.com/
42 2011-03-13 00:21:54 <ArtForz> http://www.wpacracker.com/index.html
43 2011-03-13 00:22:47 <ArtForz> their "400 CPU" cluster takes 55 min to run through a 284M word dictionary = 86k PMK/s
44 2011-03-13 00:22:49 <lolcat> How lame
45 2011-03-13 00:23:17 <ArtForz> a 5970 does about 130k, a 5870 about 76
46 2011-03-13 00:23:29 <sipa> PMK?
47 2011-03-13 00:24:02 <ArtForz> preshared master key or something like that
48 2011-03-13 00:24:31 <ArtForz> I thinkg it's wpa-speak for "pkbdf2 hash of passphrase"
49 2011-03-13 00:24:50 <sipa> sounds to me it's easy to undermine their business model with some bored bitcoin miners :)
50 2011-03-13 00:25:17 <ArtForz> gah, so much shit to try, so little time
51 2011-03-13 00:26:06 Zarutian has joined
52 2011-03-13 00:26:11 <sipa> $17 for 20 minutes on their cluster
53 2011-03-13 00:26:15 <genjix> xelister: ofc
54 2011-03-13 00:26:27 <genjix> haha ungrateful
55 2011-03-13 00:26:52 <sipa> a 5870 doesn't mine $17 worth of bitcoins on 20 minutes...
56 2011-03-13 00:27:24 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, includes the ssid
57 2011-03-13 00:27:33 <ArtForz> yes
58 2011-03-13 00:27:46 <ArtForz> ssid is used as salt for pbkdf2
59 2011-03-13 00:27:52 <ArtForz> in this case that doesnt amtter one bit though
60 2011-03-13 00:29:45 <ArtForz> my 5970s alone would do their "large wordlist" in under 80 seconds
61 2011-03-13 00:32:10 <ArtForz> and < 40 sec for their standard wordlist
62 2011-03-13 00:32:44 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
63 2011-03-13 00:33:57 <phantomcircuit> yup
64 2011-03-13 00:34:27 <ArtForz> kinda shows just how fucking fast GPUs can be
65 2011-03-13 00:35:16 <ArtForz> a core i7 950 does about 3.5k/s
66 2011-03-13 00:37:06 <ArtForz> so a $300 GPU is > 20x faster than a $300 CPU
67 2011-03-13 00:37:30 <ArtForz> kind aweird thugh
68 2011-03-13 00:37:48 <ArtForz> are their CPUs 386s or something?
69 2011-03-13 00:38:23 <ArtForz> calimed 400 CPUs, 86k PW/sec -> 215 PW/sec/cpu
70 2011-03-13 00:39:07 <ArtForz> thats ... about half of a 2.5GHz C2D
71 2011-03-13 00:40:00 Necr0s has joined
72 2011-03-13 00:40:32 <Necr0s> Do any of y'all mine on OS X?
73 2011-03-13 00:41:35 <Necr0s> (using OpenCL)
74 2011-03-13 00:42:44 `Jaka has joined
75 2011-03-13 00:43:05 agorist has joined
76 2011-03-13 00:43:24 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
77 2011-03-13 00:44:02 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
78 2011-03-13 00:44:18 aaa3 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
79 2011-03-13 00:46:07 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
80 2011-03-13 00:46:47 [Tycho] has joined
81 2011-03-13 00:48:27 <Necr0s> Is this even known to be possible today with existing software?
82 2011-03-13 00:48:35 <ArtForz> iirc, yes
83 2011-03-13 00:48:41 <Necr0s> Or is that uncharted waters, as it were?
84 2011-03-13 00:48:43 <ArtForz> I think some people tried diablos on osx
85 2011-03-13 00:48:51 <ArtForz> check the forum thread
86 2011-03-13 00:49:09 <ArtForz> iirc it works, but *very* slow
87 2011-03-13 00:49:13 <Necr0s> hmm
88 2011-03-13 00:49:29 <Necr0s> Even though it uses opencl?
89 2011-03-13 00:49:53 <Necr0s> That'd be an interesting thing to try to optimize.
90 2011-03-13 00:54:16 <ArtForz> yes
91 2011-03-13 00:56:52 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
92 2011-03-13 00:57:05 <jgarzik> the first opencl client was solar's on osx, iirc?
93 2011-03-13 00:57:20 <ArtForz> yep
94 2011-03-13 00:57:27 <ArtForz> and boy, did it suck
95 2011-03-13 00:57:44 <jgarzik> heh
96 2011-03-13 00:57:57 <ArtForz> he only used opencl for the actual sha256
97 2011-03-13 00:58:03 <Necr0s> I wonder what the impediment is.
98 2011-03-13 00:58:16 <ArtForz> meaning, transfer in 80 bytes of data, get out 16 bytes of hash. *for every hash*
99 2011-03-13 00:58:24 * jgarzik nods -- that's where I got my first sha256 opencl implementation :)
100 2011-03-13 00:58:35 <ArtForz> yeah
101 2011-03-13 00:58:37 <ArtForz> same here
102 2011-03-13 00:58:39 Bth8 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
103 2011-03-13 00:58:46 reubgr_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
104 2011-03-13 00:58:46 <Necr0s> (performance impediment)
105 2011-03-13 00:58:50 <Necr0s> If it lies in Apple's OpenCL framework(s), or if it's in the miner code itself
106 2011-03-13 00:58:53 <ArtForz> I looked at it and went "wtf, that has to be slow as fuck"
107 2011-03-13 00:58:56 <jgarzik> easier to start with a working algo, even if it sucks
108 2011-03-13 00:59:09 <Necr0s> fo sho
109 2011-03-13 00:59:10 * jgarzik likes going from known working state -> known working state
110 2011-03-13 00:59:18 <ArtForz> I actually didnt do that
111 2011-03-13 00:59:20 <Necr0s> Then you can write unit tests against it.
112 2011-03-13 00:59:58 <ArtForz> tested my first cl miner against a plain C impl
113 2011-03-13 01:00:55 <luke-jr> fwiw, IPv6 draft-branch now seems to connect and work on testnet
114 2011-03-13 01:01:08 <luke-jr> doesn't actually use or advertise IPv6 still, but the IPv4 part works again
115 2011-03-13 01:01:16 <agorist> any ready-to-install osCommerce bitcoin payment modules available out there?
116 2011-03-13 01:02:45 <jgarzik> genjix: well done, with that exchange. Bitcoin needs more people like you, putting that level of effort into getting an exchange going.
117 2011-03-13 01:02:46 Bth8 has joined
118 2011-03-13 01:02:57 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
119 2011-03-13 01:05:32 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
120 2011-03-13 01:05:54 <Necr0s> 113337 blocks ;)
121 2011-03-13 01:06:05 <genjix> jgarzik: thanks :p
122 2011-03-13 01:06:17 <genjix> i just want to see bitcoin succeed
123 2011-03-13 01:06:55 <Necr0s> me too
124 2011-03-13 01:07:07 <Necr0s> I have some software in mind to hopefully help it along.
125 2011-03-13 01:07:26 <dirtyfilthy> can you send from change transactions immediately? or do they need to be in a block?
126 2011-03-13 01:07:42 <sipa> you can send immediately from them
127 2011-03-13 01:08:00 <dirtyfilthy> k, thanks
128 2011-03-13 01:08:05 <sipa> then both subsequent transactions will be placed (probably) in the same next block
129 2011-03-13 01:08:22 Cusipzzz has joined
130 2011-03-13 01:08:40 <jgarzik> genjix: I know it's an unpopular to thing to say, but IMO working /with/ governments to exchange bitcoins is the only way to make bitcoin a success. That means licensing, where appropriate...
131 2011-03-13 01:08:57 <xelister> jgarzik: which government?
132 2011-03-13 01:09:14 <xelister> you are aware USA did not yet invid^H liberated entire world? ;)
133 2011-03-13 01:10:09 * sipa points at jgarzik's use of the plural form of the word "government"
134 2011-03-13 01:10:18 * xelister puts on reading glasses
135 2011-03-13 01:10:39 <xelister> well I hope too that this vision of world will not happen
136 2011-03-13 01:10:46 <xelister> gov regularing everything
137 2011-03-13 01:10:53 <xelister> can I mine on radeon Sire?
138 2011-03-13 01:11:16 <xelister> can I kiss my girlfriend and not be tagged pedo, we are both 17 yo, Sire please?
139 2011-03-13 01:11:23 <xelister> can I have sex with my own wife, Sire?
140 2011-03-13 01:12:04 <xelister> can I install open source DVD player... oh wait, that already is / will be more illegal in many cases, with the NEW "improved" ACTA. Again most of this ideas come from USA. :<
141 2011-03-13 01:12:20 <Necr0s> I don't know if I agree with the notion that working/getting in bed with govts is necessary for bc to succeed.
142 2011-03-13 01:13:21 <xelister> well I dunno
143 2011-03-13 01:13:29 <Necr0s> Also, think about the definition of success when it comes to bd and its 'mission'...
144 2011-03-13 01:13:35 <Necr0s> bc
145 2011-03-13 01:13:44 <xelister> in USA the government *literraly* can fuck you over in the ass =) and you have to /bend over/ for the government(*)
146 2011-03-13 01:13:53 <xelister> (*) represented by uneducated idiots from TSA
147 2011-03-13 01:13:53 <phantomcircuit> I started to write a script interpreter
148 2011-03-13 01:13:59 <phantomcircuit> and then stopped when i wanted to scream
149 2011-03-13 01:14:43 <xelister> btw anyone in this channel (that is reading now ;) thinks in USA people do have still really liberty?
150 2011-03-13 01:15:01 <dirtyfilthy> phantomcircuit: eh it's not that bad
151 2011-03-13 01:15:28 <agorist> usa, land of the slaves!
152 2011-03-13 01:15:36 <agorist> bitcoin to teh rescue!
153 2011-03-13 01:15:51 * xelister rides bitcoin like a mechanicall bull
154 2011-03-13 01:15:58 <Necr0s> Sure, we have liberty*. (*void where prohibited, some restrictions apply)
155 2011-03-13 01:16:07 <agorist> oh yea xelister? with how many btcs
156 2011-03-13 01:16:28 <Necr0s> So right now you can kind of sell your CPU/GPU power in exchange for bitcoins, although that's artificial.
157 2011-03-13 01:16:50 <Necr0s> I'm imaging software that lets you sell your storage and bandwidth in exchange for bitcoins.
158 2011-03-13 01:17:06 <Necr0s> And use bitcoins to purchase these services from those offering them.
159 2011-03-13 01:17:14 <xelister> Necr0s: it already exists \o/
160 2011-03-13 01:17:18 <xelister> soem people offer hosting 4 btc
161 2011-03-13 01:17:26 <Necr0s> cool.
162 2011-03-13 01:18:31 <Necr0s> What I envision would be a bit different though. Much more of a turnkey solution, all peer-to-peer based.
163 2011-03-13 01:18:48 <Necr0s> So you wouldn't have to manually set up and manage hosting such, all you'd do is run the software.
164 2011-03-13 01:19:29 <xelister> cloud computing 4 btc?
165 2011-03-13 01:19:55 <Necr0s> sloud storage anyway.
166 2011-03-13 01:19:57 <Necr0s> BitFS.
167 2011-03-13 01:20:16 <Necr0s> Using bitcoin + bittorrent
168 2011-03-13 01:21:44 <Necr0s> You run the software, set the amount of your storage/bandwidth resources you wish to offer for sale (if any), and the price you wish to ask for those.
169 2011-03-13 01:23:00 <xelister> or freenet
170 2011-03-13 01:23:33 <Necr0s> You can also set a target number of replicated copies of data you publish, and manage the funding to maintain that number.
171 2011-03-13 01:25:08 <xelister> also in freenet =)
172 2011-03-13 01:25:33 <Necr0s> You can run a few nodes yourself, and set them up to all support each other (offer those nodes unlimited resources when requested)
173 2011-03-13 01:26:25 <Necr0s> Well, rather than support for each other specifially, it would be support for any content published with your signature.
174 2011-03-13 01:28:17 * subpar needs to check out freent
175 2011-03-13 01:28:21 <subpar> freenet
176 2011-03-13 01:28:23 <phantomcircuit> dirtyfilthy, it really is
177 2011-03-13 01:28:52 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
178 2011-03-13 01:29:04 <xelister> all technology is what people use it to be
179 2011-03-13 01:29:14 <genjix> freenet is cool
180 2011-03-13 01:29:21 <xelister> e.g. dynamite - war (usafags) or producing coal, gold etc (miners)
181 2011-03-13 01:29:37 sabalaba has joined
182 2011-03-13 01:29:51 <xelister> computers - machines to calculate jews (hitler/IBM) or calculatprs, games, etc
183 2011-03-13 01:30:04 <xelister> paper glue - paper glue, or narcotic ;) etc
184 2011-03-13 01:30:08 <Necr0s> The same goes for any kind of power.
185 2011-03-13 01:30:17 <xelister> and for butter knife
186 2011-03-13 01:30:20 <Necr0s> Be it technological, military, magical, whatever.
187 2011-03-13 01:30:21 * BurtyB remembers freenet as a slow as hell horror that didnt help privacy as you was the one in the corner going ape shit at the amount of time for a page to load... i guess times have changed?
188 2011-03-13 01:30:28 <xelister> USA 2067. OMG you have a PENIS? that is illegal, you rapist.
189 2011-03-13 01:31:24 <xelister> BurtyB: freenet is more secure network that exist nowdays. It can rather slow still, but tollerable. Talking (boards,messages - Frost,FMS,Freetalk - post something, and check back day later for replies)
190 2011-03-13 01:31:48 <xelister> downloading files 100 mb - 700 mb (recently posted/still 'seeded' files) - start download, and you have it in 1..7 days typically
191 2011-03-13 01:32:04 <xelister> opening a html page (freenet page) - 0.5 .. 10 minutes
192 2011-03-13 01:32:14 <xelister> *most secure
193 2011-03-13 01:32:49 <xelister> freenetproject.org installation is 5 minutes - just grap file and execute. #freenet exists here but wait for re
194 2011-03-13 01:33:18 <BurtyB> xelister so basically it's still not much better than it was years go
195 2011-03-13 01:34:35 <xelister> well, is there other network to fully secure and UNCENSORABLE share files as FAST? or at all?
196 2011-03-13 01:34:59 <xelister> tor -> get the .onion server [admin], and its gone.
197 2011-03-13 01:35:02 <xelister> i2p -> like tor
198 2011-03-13 01:35:04 <xelister> others?
199 2011-03-13 01:36:26 <xelister> if USA would attempt to censor informaiton about it war crimes, it can go asfter DNSes, Amazon hosting, after TOR .onion site... but about Freenet its powerless (unless destroying all 20,000 computers all over the world) the info will stay uncensored no matter what
200 2011-03-13 01:38:04 <blarzong> can you do audio / video encoding like uencode.com with GPUs?
201 2011-03-13 01:39:35 <Necr0s> I would think so.
202 2011-03-13 01:39:47 <Necr0s> I don't know what you mean about uencode.com tho, I dunno what that is.
203 2011-03-13 01:40:08 <blarzong> video encoding service
204 2011-03-13 01:40:10 <xelister> blarzong: yeah there are some accelerators using GPUs afair
205 2011-03-13 01:40:35 <blarzong> i c
206 2011-03-13 01:40:55 <Necr0s> I use vlc for my transcoding needs, and it seems to perform well enough for me just using the CPU.
207 2011-03-13 01:41:17 <ArtForz> yes
208 2011-03-13 01:41:27 <xelister> btw
209 2011-03-13 01:41:34 <ArtForz> it's not trivial, but you can use GPGPU to speed up video encoding
210 2011-03-13 01:41:35 <xelister> which version of CUDA is needed to have OpenCL working?
211 2011-03-13 01:41:44 <ArtForz> same thing goes for video decoding
212 2011-03-13 01:41:52 <Necr0s> I guess if you wanted to do a whole lot of encoding, like dozens of streams in parallel on one machine, using GPUs could be win.
213 2011-03-13 01:41:57 <xelister> or, is since which version does nvidia support OpenCL at all (as needed for bitcoin)
214 2011-03-13 01:42:26 <xelister> since which model
215 2011-03-13 01:42:44 <ArtForz> xelister: I think 8xxx series
216 2011-03-13 01:43:00 <blarzong> interesting
217 2011-03-13 01:43:03 <ArtForz> and for the driver, no clue, I think you still need some special beta dev driver for OCL support
218 2011-03-13 01:43:07 <xelister> so all 9xxx and all 2xx will support OpenCL ?
219 2011-03-13 01:43:16 <ArtForz> I think so
220 2011-03-13 01:43:20 <xelister> e.g. noraml diablominer would run fine?
221 2011-03-13 01:43:27 <blarzong> i think hedge funds do a lot of pricing algorithms, but they use cpu clusters.GPUs would probably be more efficient
222 2011-03-13 01:43:33 <xelister> because I have few a bit older boxes... ok, so I will probably try it
223 2011-03-13 01:44:05 <xelister> blarzong: really there is so much calculations in economics?? I would think onlly scientific and 3d rendering needs that (and pwd cracking etc)
224 2011-03-13 01:44:05 <ArtForz> btw, using GPGPU for video stuff is kinda wasteful, most modern GPUs have dedicated hadrware to speed up the costly parts of decoding and usually encoding, too...
225 2011-03-13 01:44:24 <ArtForz> problem is, thanks to DRM bullshit no manufacturer can release specs on that
226 2011-03-13 01:44:40 <xelister> heeeey ArtForz
227 2011-03-13 01:44:43 <xelister> you terrorist.
228 2011-03-13 01:45:20 <ArtForz> yeah
229 2011-03-13 01:45:29 <xelister> that reminds me
230 2011-03-13 01:45:39 <subpar> OK - I have goofed up my savings wallet it seems
231 2011-03-13 01:45:51 * subpar grumbles
232 2011-03-13 01:45:58 <ArtForz> evil terrrists trying to steal the precious eyepee
233 2011-03-13 01:46:07 <xelister> most funny guy I ment on irc here, he claims he runs TOR and Freenet node "for freedom for buys like in Lybia" but also he says USA gov is good and fair and liberal, and people should refrain from serious crimes like copyright/drm
234 2011-03-13 01:46:40 <ArtForz> I wouldnt call drm a serious crime, more like a major consumer and developer inconvenience *ducks*
235 2011-03-13 01:46:47 <xelister> also he says he runs Freenet but doesnt use it himself, and yet he posts there (FMS) hah. And I though nodes operators are more of elite.
236 2011-03-13 01:46:52 Slix` has joined
237 2011-03-13 01:47:06 <subpar> can't I just copy my wallet.dat to a new bitcoin install?
238 2011-03-13 01:47:16 <ArtForz> subpar: err... yes.
239 2011-03-13 01:47:20 <xelister> subpar: can. backup it frist. with node not running
240 2011-03-13 01:47:24 <ArtForz> yep
241 2011-03-13 01:47:27 <xelister> also
242 2011-03-13 01:47:33 <xelister> send the wallet first to me
243 2011-03-13 01:47:37 <xelister> I will check if it is correct
244 2011-03-13 01:47:41 <subpar> ;-)
245 2011-03-13 01:47:42 <xelister> for free O_o< LOL
246 2011-03-13 01:47:50 <ArtForz> and it seems -rescan can still miss some stuff, so better let it redownload the chain
247 2011-03-13 01:48:02 <subpar> I started a client - made a wallet.dat for my savings
248 2011-03-13 01:48:06 <nanotube> for free * <smallprint>not including the stolen wallet balance</smallprint>
249 2011-03-13 01:48:07 <nanotube> hehe
250 2011-03-13 01:48:17 <ArtForz> I think at least one guy complained about that on the forums
251 2011-03-13 01:48:23 <subpar> and hadn't used it - put the wallet.dat in a turecrypt volume
252 2011-03-13 01:48:48 Slix` has quit (Client Quit)
253 2011-03-13 01:48:49 <subpar> it has the current blockchain and shows a balance of 0
254 2011-03-13 01:48:59 <subpar> using the windows client
255 2011-03-13 01:49:07 <ArtForz> huh. weird.
256 2011-03-13 01:49:21 <subpar> yeah - figured I musta goofed somewhere along the line
257 2011-03-13 01:49:46 <ArtForz> the "always works" option, start with a empty datadir, put *only* wallet in there, fire up client, let it download chain
258 2011-03-13 01:50:08 <ArtForz> if that doesnt work, the wallet is majorly b0rked
259 2011-03-13 01:50:39 <ArtForz> if you already have a block chain in data dir, -rescan might or might not pick up all transactions
260 2011-03-13 01:51:06 <subpar> yeah - I copied the block chain from my bitcoind client on a linux box
261 2011-03-13 01:51:17 <subpar> stopped the client first, of course
262 2011-03-13 01:51:21 <ArtForz> yeah
263 2011-03-13 01:51:23 <subpar> err daemon
264 2011-03-13 01:51:40 <ArtForz> usually it should pick up everything by stzarting with -rescan
265 2011-03-13 01:51:48 <subpar> OK - will follow your instructions ArtForz - thanks
266 2011-03-13 01:51:59 <subpar> brb
267 2011-03-13 01:52:15 <ArtForz> if it doesnt, start without blk0001/blkindex and let it reDL the chain (-connect to another node on LAN makes chain DL a lot faster)
268 2011-03-13 01:52:54 <Necr0s> Yeah, I didn't have luck transferring the block chain from one client to another by copying the files.
269 2011-03-13 01:53:03 <nanotube> ArtForz: does deleting just the index cause it to reindex the chain?
270 2011-03-13 01:53:09 <nanotube> i thought that was the case...
271 2011-03-13 01:53:17 <ArtForz> nanotube: I think I tried that, didnt work
272 2011-03-13 01:53:25 <Necr0s> So I haaxed my router to force the one client to connect to the other and get the chain from it.
273 2011-03-13 01:53:31 <ArtForz> died with some really funny errors
274 2011-03-13 01:53:38 <ArtForz> Necr0s: thats what -connect is for ;)
275 2011-03-13 01:53:45 <nanotube> ArtForz: mmm ic...
276 2011-03-13 01:53:47 <Necr0s> I didn't know of more elegant ways at the time.
277 2011-03-13 01:53:56 <ArtForz> -connect=my.other.nodes.ip
278 2011-03-13 01:54:04 <ArtForz> and it will only connect to that one node
279 2011-03-13 01:54:24 <subpar> ok - haven't used commandline on windows much - more with linux
280 2011-03-13 01:54:26 andynor has quit ()
281 2011-03-13 01:54:45 <Necr0s> Yeah, I had iptables -I PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 8333 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.23.foo
282 2011-03-13 01:54:47 <Necr0s> h4x
283 2011-03-13 01:54:54 <subpar> so just put the wallet.dat in the data dir for now
284 2011-03-13 01:57:02 brunner1 has joined
285 2011-03-13 01:57:03 Necr0s_ has joined
286 2011-03-13 01:57:07 brunner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
287 2011-03-13 01:57:13 <Necr0s_> speaking of windows commandline...
288 2011-03-13 01:57:19 <Necr0s_> Are there any command-line tools available for windows to check GPU temperatures?
289 2011-03-13 01:58:56 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
290 2011-03-13 01:59:40 <subpar> ArtForz: -rescan got it
291 2011-03-13 01:59:58 <subpar> thks for that
292 2011-03-13 02:01:51 Diablo-D3 has joined
293 2011-03-13 02:08:23 <genjix> who owns biddingpond.com?
294 2011-03-13 02:08:31 phantomcircuit has joined
295 2011-03-13 02:11:30 Jeroenz0r has quit (Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.8.8 Beta Build (130311))
296 2011-03-13 02:11:38 Jeroenz0r has joined
297 2011-03-13 02:11:38 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
298 2011-03-13 02:11:38 Jeroenz0r has joined
299 2011-03-13 02:13:51 <blarzong> ZhuZhu
300 2011-03-13 02:14:08 <agorist> lol?
301 2011-03-13 02:19:02 aaa3 has joined
302 2011-03-13 02:20:09 agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
303 2011-03-13 02:20:16 <nanotube> genjix: the biddingpond guy. :) he has an account on the OTC wot
304 2011-03-13 02:25:04 aaa3 has quit ()
305 2011-03-13 02:35:54 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
306 2011-03-13 02:36:07 molecular has joined
307 2011-03-13 02:40:52 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
308 2011-03-13 02:42:09 sabalaba has joined
309 2011-03-13 02:52:23 da2ce7 has joined
310 2011-03-13 02:52:24 Spenvo has joined
311 2011-03-13 02:52:29 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
312 2011-03-13 02:52:55 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
313 2011-03-13 02:54:11 <Spenvo> just put up custom bitcoin product search on my site if anyone wants to try it - tell me if there are bugs
314 2011-03-13 02:54:26 <Spenvo> aside from looking terrible
315 2011-03-13 02:57:36 <Spenvo> anybody home?
316 2011-03-13 02:58:47 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
317 2011-03-13 02:59:08 Spenvo has joined
318 2011-03-13 02:59:37 AAA_awright has joined
319 2011-03-13 03:03:14 Mephistopheles has joined
320 2011-03-13 03:03:14 Mephistopheles has quit (Client Quit)
321 2011-03-13 03:06:02 <luke-jr> Spenvo: which is?
322 2011-03-13 03:06:22 <Spenvo> www.bitcoinbulletin.com
323 2011-03-13 03:06:44 <Spenvo> the thought being if you type i want a laptop for bitcoins on google, the results suck hard
324 2011-03-13 03:17:29 <luke-jr> Spenvo: know where I can get cellular service with bitcoins?
325 2011-03-13 03:18:01 <Spenvo> haha, nope, but if you use the wishlist we'll email you when we've found one!
326 2011-03-13 03:18:58 <luke-jr> :P
327 2011-03-13 03:20:24 <Spenvo> yeah, nobody uses the wishlist. it'll probably be taken down soon
328 2011-03-13 03:22:05 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
329 2011-03-13 03:22:59 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
330 2011-03-13 03:26:08 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
331 2011-03-13 03:30:50 da2ce7 has quit ()
332 2011-03-13 03:32:10 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
333 2011-03-13 03:32:26 defaced has joined
334 2011-03-13 03:32:43 BlueMatt has joined
335 2011-03-13 04:05:15 Lachesis has joined
336 2011-03-13 04:06:44 kermit is now known as meltdown
337 2011-03-13 04:17:06 <mizerydearia> Can anyone help to provide feedback/discussion on http://meta.witcoin.com/p/406/Thread-creators-dont-get-a-share-of-all-the-activity-in-a-thread-they-start? If not directly at the site (in case 0.00000001 bitcoins is too expensive), then in #witcoin?
338 2011-03-13 04:21:43 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: thats too complex.
339 2011-03-13 04:21:53 <Diablo-D3> either allow it or dont, we dont need a checkbox.
340 2011-03-13 04:22:02 <Diablo-D3> and my god that site is ugly
341 2011-03-13 04:22:16 <mizerydearia> you can thank tcatm ^_^
342 2011-03-13 04:23:35 <mizerydearia> I offered to him distribution of site profits for design assistance
343 2011-03-13 04:24:44 Mango-chan has joined
344 2011-03-13 04:28:07 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
345 2011-03-13 04:28:24 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: imo, nobody will share when given the option
346 2011-03-13 04:28:57 <Diablo-D3> and yeah
347 2011-03-13 04:29:01 <Diablo-D3> it should just automatically share
348 2011-03-13 04:29:42 <Diablo-D3> it should be
349 2011-03-13 04:29:45 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: then you can't criticize things
350 2011-03-13 04:29:52 <Diablo-D3> guy who starts topic gets part of profits, +/-
351 2011-03-13 04:30:03 <Diablo-D3> he gets part of profits of any response, +/-
352 2011-03-13 04:30:12 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: it shouldn't be part of YOUR profits
353 2011-03-13 04:30:19 <Diablo-D3> and then if someone responds to a response, the parent response gets part of the profits, +/-
354 2011-03-13 04:30:19 <Diablo-D3> NOW
355 2011-03-13 04:30:27 <Diablo-D3> if someone's thread local shit becomes negative
356 2011-03-13 04:30:29 <Diablo-D3> they get nothing
357 2011-03-13 04:30:41 <Diablo-D3> so if a thread suddenly goes south, everybody suffers
358 2011-03-13 04:30:52 <luke-jr> mizerydearia: you should choose whether X amount goes to the head, stays with witcoin, or goes to a "delete head" fund
359 2011-03-13 04:30:53 <Diablo-D3> ie, "this thread is bad and you should feel bad"
360 2011-03-13 04:31:00 <Diablo-D3> NOW
361 2011-03-13 04:31:05 <Diablo-D3> you also factor in karma
362 2011-03-13 04:31:14 <Diablo-D3> user karma would also control how much profit goes upstream
363 2011-03-13 04:31:26 <Diablo-D3> people with high karma can offset their thread local profit
364 2011-03-13 04:31:38 <Diablo-D3> people with negative karma offset their damage to other users in the thread
365 2011-03-13 04:31:49 <Diablo-D3> so people who make good responses constantly profit
366 2011-03-13 04:31:55 meltdown is now known as kermit
367 2011-03-13 04:32:07 <Diablo-D3> people who make bad responses constantly dont profit and dont harm the profits of others
368 2011-03-13 04:32:10 <Diablo-D3> and nobody _loses_
369 2011-03-13 04:32:23 <Diablo-D3> no one is outright punished
370 2011-03-13 04:32:25 <Diablo-D3> they just dont profit
371 2011-03-13 04:32:30 <Diablo-D3> and they dont stop others from profiting
372 2011-03-13 04:35:56 <noagendamarket> first we need user karma :)
373 2011-03-13 04:36:01 <mizerydearia> hmm
374 2011-03-13 04:36:30 <mizerydearia> <Diablo-D3> if someone's thread local shit becomes negative --- How to determine this?
375 2011-03-13 04:36:47 <mizerydearia> there is no downvoting
376 2011-03-13 04:37:17 <noagendamarket> downvoting syndrome
377 2011-03-13 04:38:02 <noagendamarket> the faucet should get downvoting profits :)
378 2011-03-13 04:38:45 <noagendamarket> the witcoin faucet ...
379 2011-03-13 04:39:04 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: no downvoting at all?!
380 2011-03-13 04:39:06 <Diablo-D3> srsly?!
381 2011-03-13 04:39:08 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
382 2011-03-13 04:39:09 <Diablo-D3> wtf.
383 2011-03-13 04:39:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113350 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1560 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 4 hours, 4 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67953.00550598
384 2011-03-13 04:39:19 <Diablo-D3> [11:35:48] <noagendamarket> first we need user karma :)
385 2011-03-13 04:39:31 <Diablo-D3> thats just the weighted sum of all their postings
386 2011-03-13 04:39:41 <Diablo-D3> ie, if the thread did well, their posts in that thread weigh more
387 2011-03-13 04:40:18 <mizerydearia> Diablo-D3, How would you suggest to implement downvoting? Say, for example if I post something and then have 0.00000000 witcoins left. If my post is downvoted (which has a cost associated with it, that is paid by the user that downvoted), then what happens?
388 2011-03-13 04:40:49 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: thread local witcoin balance
389 2011-03-13 04:40:51 <Diablo-D3> you can never go negative
390 2011-03-13 04:41:21 <Diablo-D3> this is just earnings AFTER you paid to post
391 2011-03-13 04:41:24 da2ce7 has joined
392 2011-03-13 04:41:25 <noagendamarket> we have a faucet that distributes negative votes...
393 2011-03-13 04:41:28 <Diablo-D3> you cant lose money for posting a bad post
394 2011-03-13 04:41:47 <Diablo-D3> it shouldnt cost anything to downvote either
395 2011-03-13 04:41:57 <mizerydearia> then what if I downvote everything?
396 2011-03-13 04:42:03 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: nothing
397 2011-03-13 04:42:09 <Diablo-D3> because you have global karma offset
398 2011-03-13 04:42:42 <Diablo-D3> so if the average post score is, say, -1, a brand new post is offset to a human view of 1.
399 2011-03-13 04:48:03 <luke-jr> so has anyone seen MagicalTux since the big wave?
400 2011-03-13 04:49:39 <da2ce7> yep, he said that he was 'ok'
401 2011-03-13 04:49:48 <Diablo-D3> ahh good
402 2011-03-13 04:51:32 <noagendamarket> he posted in the chan here
403 2011-03-13 04:52:22 <Diablo-D3> I just had a funny idea
404 2011-03-13 04:52:22 darsk1ez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
405 2011-03-13 04:52:47 <Diablo-D3> I could accept openid for my pool
406 2011-03-13 04:54:11 darsk1ez has joined
407 2011-03-13 04:54:21 <defaced> what is this witcoin we speak of
408 2011-03-13 04:54:25 <noagendamarket> you could have facebook connect then marc suckerburg could steal all the user names
409 2011-03-13 04:54:50 <Diablo-D3> noagendamarket: facebook connect is inherently broken
410 2011-03-13 04:54:57 <Diablo-D3> theres no way to use it in a non-browser context
411 2011-03-13 04:55:11 <defaced> curl
412 2011-03-13 04:55:30 <Diablo-D3> defaced: thats not what I meant
413 2011-03-13 04:55:40 <defaced> oh sorry
414 2011-03-13 04:55:42 <Diablo-D3> http is perfectly fine for application apis
415 2011-03-13 04:55:48 <defaced> yea
416 2011-03-13 04:55:52 <Diablo-D3> the problem is, theres no way to feed a key to the app
417 2011-03-13 04:55:56 <defaced> hmm
418 2011-03-13 04:56:08 <Diablo-D3> with openid I can authenticate and produce keys for any kind of app
419 2011-03-13 04:56:43 <defaced> ping.fm might be another to look into, i know their auth api is cake
420 2011-03-13 04:56:47 <Diablo-D3> (although sometimes this involves going to a website in my browser and downloading/copy pasting the key)
421 2011-03-13 04:56:47 <defaced> twitter aswell
422 2011-03-13 04:56:54 <Diablo-D3> twitter uses oauth
423 2011-03-13 04:56:57 <defaced> yea
424 2011-03-13 04:57:16 <defaced> well, some of twitter does, their are a few functions that use their old api
425 2011-03-13 04:57:19 <Diablo-D3> oauth is just a specific way of using openid
426 2011-03-13 04:57:33 <Diablo-D3> although Im somewhat glossing it over
427 2011-03-13 04:57:48 <defaced> i dont know if twitter fixed those loopholes yet though
428 2011-03-13 04:57:49 <Diablo-D3> but what Im saying is
429 2011-03-13 04:57:58 <Diablo-D3> facebook connect has no way of doing this
430 2011-03-13 04:58:09 <defaced> dang that sucks.
431 2011-03-13 04:58:09 <Diablo-D3> its all based around session cookies
432 2011-03-13 04:58:26 <noagendamarket> create a facebook app that mines for you...
433 2011-03-13 04:58:30 <Diablo-D3> even if I exported the cookie from the browser and fed it to my app, it still wont work because its attached to the session
434 2011-03-13 04:58:33 <Diablo-D3> also
435 2011-03-13 04:58:38 <Diablo-D3> facebook sucks udder dick
436 2011-03-13 04:58:38 <defaced> yup
437 2011-03-13 04:58:53 <defaced> cookie and session control. damn if that isnt paranoid
438 2011-03-13 05:01:43 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
439 2011-03-13 05:05:06 echelon has joined
440 2011-03-13 05:05:23 <genjix> Diablo-D3: do you know if contact/email is a required field in OpenID?
441 2011-03-13 05:05:28 <genjix> is is it optional
442 2011-03-13 05:06:29 <genjix> i think maybe it's optional and you're expected to use the value if it exists to prefill the email input for the user.
443 2011-03-13 05:06:44 <genjix> not sure tho
444 2011-03-13 05:09:26 <da2ce7> http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm
445 2011-03-13 05:13:32 <Diablo-D3> genjix: openid doesnt work that way
446 2011-03-13 05:15:07 <Diablo-D3> genjix: you have to supply whatever the openid provider requires
447 2011-03-13 05:15:23 <Diablo-D3> so, for example, if you wish to authenticate using your google account, obviously you need a google account first
448 2011-03-13 05:15:49 JMercha has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
449 2011-03-13 05:16:29 theymos has joined
450 2011-03-13 05:22:28 <Diablo-D3> genjix: theres openid providers who take shit like smartcards and penis readers that read the unique blood vessle layout of your ballsack
451 2011-03-13 05:23:30 JMercha has joined
452 2011-03-13 05:24:00 <Diablo-D3> oh this is nifty
453 2011-03-13 05:24:04 <Diablo-D3> facebook also allows openid
454 2011-03-13 05:24:39 <genjix> the openid spec allows certain parameters
455 2011-03-13 05:25:18 <genjix> called AX schema
456 2011-03-13 05:25:24 <Diablo-D3> genjix: yeah but
457 2011-03-13 05:25:25 <Diablo-D3> what Im saying is
458 2011-03-13 05:25:32 <Diablo-D3> it requires whatever the provider requires
459 2011-03-13 05:25:40 <genjix> basically you get attribute and one common one i see everywhere is "contact/email"
460 2011-03-13 05:25:54 <Diablo-D3> so if you have to have a device on your desk, and you have to stick your erect dick into it
461 2011-03-13 05:25:57 <Diablo-D3> then I say, fuck it
462 2011-03-13 05:26:06 <genjix> wat
463 2011-03-13 05:26:15 * Diablo-D3 slid a pun in there
464 2011-03-13 05:26:20 <genjix> ok i got my dick. now what
465 2011-03-13 05:29:00 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
466 2011-03-13 05:29:07 <Diablo-D3> I think you missed the point
467 2011-03-13 05:34:22 henux has joined
468 2011-03-13 05:34:41 <henux> hello. i was thinking of developing a webapp which would contain an open database of email -> bitcoin address mapping. do you think this would be of any real use? it would also have a some kind of API which other apps could use
469 2011-03-13 05:35:19 <Diablo-D3> so, basically, a form of DNS.
470 2011-03-13 05:35:57 <henux> yes
471 2011-03-13 05:36:09 <Diablo-D3> the idea isnt new, and I think everyone who tried it bailed out
472 2011-03-13 05:36:25 <henux> the db might also allow metadata to be attached, like website address etc.
473 2011-03-13 05:36:35 <henux> maybe even images
474 2011-03-13 05:36:49 <Diablo-D3> I imagine a lot of people wouldn't use it
475 2011-03-13 05:36:52 <luke-jr> henux: genjix already has a standard underway
476 2011-03-13 05:37:00 <Diablo-D3> orly?
477 2011-03-13 05:37:04 <henux> luke-jr: what kind of?
478 2011-03-13 05:37:08 <luke-jr> henux: the obvious flaw in your idea, is giving the same address to more than 1 person
479 2011-03-13 05:37:23 <luke-jr> it's on the dev forum
480 2011-03-13 05:37:24 <henux> yeah
481 2011-03-13 05:37:44 <henux> i'm new to bitcoin, what is the dev forum?
482 2011-03-13 05:37:52 <luke-jr> genjix's implementation, allows for any domain to host a simple PHP script that gives a new address each time and records comments
483 2011-03-13 05:38:24 <Diablo-D3> ahh see
484 2011-03-13 05:38:28 <Diablo-D3> php is automatically fail
485 2011-03-13 05:38:34 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: stfu troll
486 2011-03-13 05:38:39 <luke-jr> it could be any kind of script
487 2011-03-13 05:38:47 <henux> luke-jr: i dont understand how that relates to the DNS idea
488 2011-03-13 05:39:04 <Diablo-D3> you know, I dont see how me being one of the few coders actually getting shit done for bitcoin makes me a troll
489 2011-03-13 05:39:13 <Diablo-D3> I dont see _you_ coding anything of value, luke-jr
490 2011-03-13 05:39:23 <Diablo-D3> or ANYTHING, even of no value
491 2011-03-13 05:39:37 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: because you don't pay attention, idiot
492 2011-03-13 05:39:54 <luke-jr> henux: there is no mapping of people to addresses
493 2011-03-13 05:40:05 <luke-jr> henux: every transaction generally has a new address
494 2011-03-13 05:40:10 <luke-jr> so DNS really *cannot* work
495 2011-03-13 05:40:26 <henux> i was under the impression that each user has his own bitcoin addr
496 2011-03-13 05:40:34 <noagendamarket> no
497 2011-03-13 05:40:41 <luke-jr> henux: no, each user has thousands of addr
498 2011-03-13 05:40:44 <noagendamarket> that would suck
499 2011-03-13 05:40:44 <henux> i certainly have mine
500 2011-03-13 05:40:45 <nanotube> henux: everyone can have an unlimited number of addresses.
501 2011-03-13 05:40:47 <luke-jr> one for each transaction usually
502 2011-03-13 05:40:50 <henux> oh right
503 2011-03-13 05:40:50 <nanotube> and generally does.
504 2011-03-13 05:41:07 <luke-jr> because otherwise, it's impossible to tell who sent the bitcoins
505 2011-03-13 05:41:10 <noagendamarket> "here is my only bitcoin address government "
506 2011-03-13 05:41:24 <henux> okay so my concept is therefore a failure
507 2011-03-13 05:41:39 <luke-jr> henux: using DNS, yes
508 2011-03-13 05:41:43 <luke-jr> henux: using HTTP, it's workable
509 2011-03-13 05:41:44 <noagendamarket> someone might have 1 address they use for it
510 2011-03-13 05:41:58 <noagendamarket> not their only address...
511 2011-03-13 05:41:59 <luke-jr> the URI just needs to have a script generating a new address and noting who it's for
512 2011-03-13 05:42:14 bk128 has joined
513 2011-03-13 05:42:27 <henux> what is the difference of mapping addresses to URIs instead of emails?
514 2011-03-13 05:43:04 <luke-jr> â¦
515 2011-03-13 05:43:16 <luke-jr> the URI is used to lookup the "email"
516 2011-03-13 05:43:23 <luke-jr> the webserver runs your script
517 2011-03-13 05:43:29 <luke-jr> the script creates a new address each time
518 2011-03-13 05:43:37 <henux> ok
519 2011-03-13 05:43:43 <luke-jr> the script also adds it to a database, with a comment who it's from
520 2011-03-13 05:44:42 <henux> i guess i will have to think something else then
521 2011-03-13 05:45:50 lfm has joined
522 2011-03-13 05:46:03 <luke-jr> henux: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol needs work
523 2011-03-13 05:50:05 cschneid has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
524 2011-03-13 05:50:05 <henux> that may not be what i was looking for
525 2011-03-13 05:54:15 henux has quit (Quit: zzz)
526 2011-03-13 05:55:52 echelon_ has joined
527 2011-03-13 05:56:12 echelon has quit (Disconnected by services)
528 2011-03-13 05:56:20 echelon_ is now known as echelon
529 2011-03-13 05:58:15 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
530 2011-03-13 06:00:18 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
531 2011-03-13 06:08:14 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
532 2011-03-13 06:16:07 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
533 2011-03-13 06:17:25 AAA_awright has joined
534 2011-03-13 06:29:43 Syke has joined
535 2011-03-13 06:31:37 <dirtyfilthy> hey has anybody had a problem with mtgox & mybitcoin not accepting addresses that the client has generated
536 2011-03-13 06:32:18 <theymos> Maybe they're applying some incorrect length limit.
537 2011-03-13 06:32:55 <dirtyfilthy> this was the address: 1GfwfvJmPRGkrHFGDg3ri13UoqRvkvGWPT
538 2011-03-13 06:33:43 FellowTraveler has joined
539 2011-03-13 06:33:45 <dirtyfilthy> i generated a new one and then it worked fine
540 2011-03-13 06:33:46 <FellowTraveler> hi all
541 2011-03-13 06:34:39 <lfm> works fine
542 2011-03-13 06:34:48 <lfm> you copied it wrong?
543 2011-03-13 06:35:24 <dirtyfilthy> eh it wasn't me someone was trying to send me bitcoins so i guess maybe
544 2011-03-13 06:35:30 <theymos> That length is normal. Maybe their bitcoind died as they were asking it to validate.
545 2011-03-13 06:37:13 CherryCoke has quit ()
546 2011-03-13 06:38:18 Maccer has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
547 2011-03-13 06:41:49 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
548 2011-03-13 06:42:26 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
549 2011-03-13 06:42:43 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
550 2011-03-13 06:42:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113362 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1549 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 2 hours, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68003.57458397
551 2011-03-13 06:42:52 ArtForz has joined
552 2011-03-13 06:44:25 <Necr0s_> ;;bc,calc 1000000
553 2011-03-13 06:44:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 10 seconds
554 2011-03-13 06:47:02 <dirtyfilthy> lfm: was that worked fine in mtgox?
555 2011-03-13 06:47:36 <lfm> naw, just local bicoicn, the address is fine
556 2011-03-13 06:47:58 <dirtyfilthy> ah ok. did you send me 0.01? give me address and i'll send it back
557 2011-03-13 06:49:50 <lfm> ok now I send a cent from mtgox. it seemed to work fine
558 2011-03-13 06:50:03 <dirtyfilthy> ok thanks
559 2011-03-13 06:52:27 <mizerydearia> Diablo-D3, btw, you mentioned witcoin is ugly. In what way do you consider it ugly?
560 2011-03-13 06:54:28 <mizerydearia> I agree. The colors are not so awesome in a fashionable way.
561 2011-03-13 07:00:42 <dirtyfilthy> needs graphic designer
562 2011-03-13 07:01:48 <theymos> For the addr message here ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#addr ), I'm hashing 01e2...208d, but I get ed52..ed5c after two SHA-256s. What am I doing wrong?
563 2011-03-13 07:04:36 <genjix> mizerydearia: i think it's fine.
564 2011-03-13 07:04:40 <genjix> looks good
565 2011-03-13 07:04:51 <genjix> this is my WIP site, http://fishysnax.com/intersango/
566 2011-03-13 07:05:48 <genjix> hey mizerydearia i have 2 suggestions
567 2011-03-13 07:06:21 <genjix> or 3
568 2011-03-13 07:06:42 <genjix> quick before i forget (funny people, futaba + category-- note to myself)
569 2011-03-13 07:08:25 <dirtyfilthy> theymos: hmm i just did it and got the same thing
570 2011-03-13 07:08:36 <nanotube> theymos: it doesn't seem like the addr message actually involves any hashing.... ?
571 2011-03-13 07:09:41 <dirtyfilthy> checksum?
572 2011-03-13 07:10:19 <theymos> Yes, it's the checksum. The hash is correct, but it's different than the one in the message. I must be hashing the wrong data, or Bitcoin uses some unusual byte ordering for this.
573 2011-03-13 07:10:52 <nanotube> mm the spec doesn't actually say what /type/ of checksum it is?
574 2011-03-13 07:10:57 <nanotube> maybe it's not even sha256?
575 2011-03-13 07:11:02 <dirtyfilthy> yeh it is
576 2011-03-13 07:11:03 <nanotube> or is that described elsewhere in the document
577 2011-03-13 07:11:43 <theymos> In the code it uses the Hash function, which does double-SHA-256. It looks pretty straightforward in the code. I can't imagine what I'm doing wrong.
578 2011-03-13 07:12:10 <nanotube> ah mm
579 2011-03-13 07:12:42 <lfm> theymos: depending on exactly what you're doing sometimes you have to do a byteswap between the two sha256. I guess Id have to see more details
580 2011-03-13 07:13:22 <theymos> Hmm... I never tried byteswapping between the iterations.
581 2011-03-13 07:14:41 <theymos> Nope, that doesn't seem to be it.
582 2011-03-13 07:14:45 <genjix> just checking: max bitcoin address is 44 characters, right?
583 2011-03-13 07:14:54 <theymos> Right.
584 2011-03-13 07:15:02 JMercha has quit (Quit: leaving)
585 2011-03-13 07:15:02 <genjix> thanks
586 2011-03-13 07:15:44 <lfm> genjix: not always 44 nope, sometimes different
587 2011-03-13 07:15:54 <genjix> ofc, but 44 is MAX
588 2011-03-13 07:15:55 <lfm> oh max I spoze ya
589 2011-03-13 07:16:03 <genjix> yep thanks
590 2011-03-13 07:19:41 <nanotube> mm well fwiw, i'm getting ed52... as well. heh. :) what part of the resulting hash is the checksum supposed to be?
591 2011-03-13 07:20:07 <dirtyfilthy> first 4 bytes
592 2011-03-13 07:20:19 <theymos> Here's my PHP checksum code: http://pastebin.com/ZyhLra7T , here's ArtForz's Python checksum code: http://pastebin.com/pLFZsikm , and here's Bitcoin: http://pastebin.com/pujyJfAN
593 2011-03-13 07:23:00 <nanotube> maybe it's just a bogus paste in the wiki page. :)
594 2011-03-13 07:23:34 <theymos> I also tried it messages I collected.
595 2011-03-13 07:24:01 <mizerydearia> genjix, mm, nice site, http://fishysnax.com/intersango/. I have seen that site at another address several months ago.
596 2011-03-13 07:24:23 <mizerydearia> it's an awesome design
597 2011-03-13 07:25:03 <dirtyfilthy> theymos: not sure what this proves but my homebrew client throws an "incorrect checksum header" on that packet and it normally parses address packets
598 2011-03-13 07:25:10 <genjix> thanks. a lot of blood went into that
599 2011-03-13 07:25:18 <mizerydearia> genjix, max is 44? I thought it was 43
600 2011-03-13 07:25:23 <genjix> mizerydearia: yeah, you mean http://genjix.freehostia.com ?
601 2011-03-13 07:25:27 <mizerydearia> genjix, yep
602 2011-03-13 07:25:37 <mizerydearia> I believe theymos indicated to me that it was 43 at one point
603 2011-03-13 07:25:44 <genjix> oops i mean http://genjix.freehostia.com/mtux
604 2011-03-13 07:25:48 <mizerydearia> ^_^
605 2011-03-13 07:26:16 <lfm> theytmos you can find the correct intermediat value from the sha256sum linux command
606 2011-03-13 07:26:49 <genjix> you know i made the basic site in 1 night, but it's all the small things that take many days
607 2011-03-13 07:26:58 <genjix> like getting CSS to work .etc
608 2011-03-13 07:27:24 <theymos> dirtyfilthy: What about payload 01026b714d010000000000000000000000000000000000ffff636f checksum 47cc0ff6?
609 2011-03-13 07:27:25 <genjix> actually design took 2-3 days
610 2011-03-13 07:27:33 <genjix> fighting CSS = 6 days
611 2011-03-13 07:27:49 <dirtyfilthy> theymos: got the whole packet? it's easier for me
612 2011-03-13 07:28:17 <mizerydearia> genjix, in case you forgot... what about (funny people, futaba + category)?
613 2011-03-13 07:29:57 <mizerydearia> mm, Jan 18 20:27:37 <theymos> Bitcoin addresses can be up to 43 characters in length, IIRC.
614 2011-03-13 07:30:00 <genjix> 1. why don't you think up some system that enables popular people to stay
615 2011-03-13 07:30:02 <mizerydearia> so, it's 44 now?
616 2011-03-13 07:30:24 <genjix> maybe popular people pay less or something.
617 2011-03-13 07:30:31 <theymos> mizerydearia: 43 is the correct value. 44 is the value for testnet addresses.
618 2011-03-13 07:30:36 <genjix> 2. the category sidebar is too big... make it smaller.
619 2011-03-13 07:30:36 <mizerydearia> ah
620 2011-03-13 07:30:58 <genjix> 3. have you spent much time on 4chan?
621 2011-03-13 07:31:10 <genjix> well?
622 2011-03-13 07:31:44 <theymos> dirtyfilthy: I don't, but here's another one I just collected: f9beb4d9696e76000000000000000000250000009070e5c10101000000dbbf5b443122f3e77e937da4a2bae0425b69c56c449a8531b1319af4
623 2011-03-13 07:31:58 <dirtyfilthy> ByteArrayInputStream byteStream=new ByteArrayInputStream(incomingBytes); DataInputStream in=new DataInputStream(byteStream); VersionPacket v=new VersionPacket(); v.readExternal(in);
624 2011-03-13 07:32:02 <dirtyfilthy> ah whoops
625 2011-03-13 07:33:40 <mizerydearia> 2. category sidebar is now smaller. look okay now?
626 2011-03-13 07:33:56 <mizerydearia> 3. not really, however I have visited the site previously
627 2011-03-13 07:34:19 <mizerydearia> 1. what kind of system have you thought of?
628 2011-03-13 07:36:19 <genjix> mizerydearia: you should spend a few days around 4chan understand how it works
629 2011-03-13 07:36:25 <genjix> it's good study
630 2011-03-13 07:36:37 <genjix> most of the memes from the internet originate from 4chan.
631 2011-03-13 07:37:29 <genjix> anyway the 4chan software is called futaba. it's actually static html.
632 2011-03-13 07:37:34 <mizerydearia> genjix, well, witcoin isn't a meme generating factory. posts/threads do not expire
633 2011-03-13 07:37:47 <genjix> when you post scripts run and regenerate the pages.
634 2011-03-13 07:38:05 <genjix> the image board format is superior to forums
635 2011-03-13 07:38:08 <mizerydearia> additionally if posts did expire, then users would surely not pay for posts that would eventually disappear
636 2011-03-13 07:38:24 <lfm> theymos: I get final hash of 837d2d8785582c5d405e36b62ff3734935ab182fbf928a17a3a2352fad3327af for that"block"
637 2011-03-13 07:38:26 <genjix> i never said posts expire
638 2011-03-13 07:38:33 <mizerydearia> I did ^_^
639 2011-03-13 07:38:35 <genjix> you're latching onto a small aspect
640 2011-03-13 07:38:38 <mizerydearia> mm
641 2011-03-13 07:38:45 * mizerydearia unlatches
642 2011-03-13 07:38:52 <mizerydearia> ohnoes, halp!! I'm falling
643 2011-03-13 07:39:13 <genjix> if you spend some time around 4chan /b/ i think it's a good study
644 2011-03-13 07:39:14 <lfm> theymos: and e6dce911ce7b3fa14f4158303aae3832cfb93e0f93d139137b9715593abc5485 as an intermediat hash between the two sah256
645 2011-03-13 07:39:16 * mizerydearia establishes lego hand
646 2011-03-13 07:39:20 <genjix> will definitely give you ideas
647 2011-03-13 07:40:06 <theymos> lfm: I get the same, but that doens't match the message's checksum of 9070e5c1.
648 2011-03-13 07:40:45 <lfm> oh a message checksum? is it a differnt algo?
649 2011-03-13 07:41:28 <theymos> AFAIK it's normal double-SHA-256 over the payload.
650 2011-03-13 07:41:44 <lfm> why is it so short?
651 2011-03-13 07:42:23 <mizerydearia> I suppose the homepage could display something other than a list of all posts
652 2011-03-13 07:43:01 <theymos> lfm: It's the first four bytes of the hash.
653 2011-03-13 07:43:25 <dirtyfilthy> theymos: it's telling me that inv packet is too short
654 2011-03-13 07:43:43 <dirtyfilthy> let me just fire it up properly and make sure it can still d/l the block chain
655 2011-03-13 07:43:51 <dirtyfilthy> and it's not broken
656 2011-03-13 07:46:35 <dirtyfilthy> eh still manages to download blockchain
657 2011-03-13 07:48:19 <theymos> I don't see how it could be too short. The packet length is 0x25, and there is a matching number of bytes in the payload.
658 2011-03-13 07:51:11 <nanotube> theymos: the port in that packet is not 8333 btw. wonder what kind of node is sending that out.
659 2011-03-13 07:51:27 <nanotube> (not that it matters for checksumming... just noting)
660 2011-03-13 07:53:48 <theymos> The last packet I posted is an inv.
661 2011-03-13 07:53:59 <nanotube> mm
662 2011-03-13 07:55:49 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
663 2011-03-13 07:56:39 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
664 2011-03-13 07:56:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113366 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1545 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 1 hour, 41 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67911.10099141
665 2011-03-13 08:04:15 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
666 2011-03-13 08:07:08 <mizerydearia> Any volunteers that would like to participate in styling beta for witcoin?
667 2011-03-13 08:07:20 <mizerydearia> e.g. css design
668 2011-03-13 08:08:13 <mizerydearia> s/beta/alpha/
669 2011-03-13 08:09:05 <mizerydearia> Basically, there will soon (within next eon or two) be user-generated themes/styles
670 2011-03-13 08:10:05 <mizerydearia> however, I would like to work with some volunteers to participate in preparing a couple designs to be ready when it is implemented.
671 2011-03-13 08:17:13 <JFK911> what's witcoin? i get 50 wtc per funny joke?
672 2011-03-13 08:17:23 <mizerydearia> I think so
673 2011-03-13 08:17:27 <mizerydearia> but they must be funny
674 2011-03-13 08:17:31 <JFK911> okay here goes
675 2011-03-13 08:17:33 <mizerydearia> and someone must be willing to pay for it
676 2011-03-13 08:17:52 <mizerydearia> actually, they don't have to be funny
677 2011-03-13 08:17:57 <JFK911> brezhnev was riding along in his car and he saw a man carrying a watermelon!
678 2011-03-13 08:18:05 <mizerydearia> anyone willing to pay 50btc for o/ ?
679 2011-03-13 08:18:08 <mizerydearia> oh wait
680 2011-03-13 08:18:13 <mizerydearia> that wasn't posted at the site
681 2011-03-13 08:18:16 <JFK911> so he orders the driver to stop and confronts the man! comrade, i want to buy your watermelon, it looks very nice!
682 2011-03-13 08:18:18 <mizerydearia> it doesn't qualify
683 2011-03-13 08:18:26 <JFK911> the man says sure, choose any one you want!
684 2011-03-13 08:18:28 <mizerydearia> you lose
685 2011-03-13 08:18:34 <JFK911> brezhnev says, but how can i choose, there's only one!?
686 2011-03-13 08:18:44 <JFK911> the man says, yes it's just like the election you won!
687 2011-03-13 08:19:13 <mizerydearia> ^_^ nice
688 2011-03-13 08:19:15 <nanotube> JFK911: lol good one
689 2011-03-13 08:20:20 <mizerydearia> JFK911, I'll pay you some wtc to post that at the site ^_^
690 2011-03-13 08:20:24 <mizerydearia> and then I'll upvote it
691 2011-03-13 08:20:39 <JFK911> did you hear?! east germany got their first vending machine!
692 2011-03-13 08:20:46 <JFK911> you put in a banana, and five ostmarks come out!
693 2011-03-13 08:21:07 TheAncientGoat has joined
694 2011-03-13 08:21:25 <JFK911> these are very old jokes, i can't take credit for them, sadly.
695 2011-03-13 08:21:26 defaced has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
696 2011-03-13 08:21:35 <mizerydearia> You can credit them in the post?
697 2011-03-13 08:21:49 <JFK911> source: folk history
698 2011-03-13 08:21:52 <JFK911> i guess
699 2011-03-13 08:22:06 <mizerydearia> well, perhaps I can offer a small donation to you regardless? which is practically the same?
700 2011-03-13 08:23:12 * MagicalTux wonders about accepting donations for Japan in JPY, and converting them to JPY to give to the local authorities
701 2011-03-13 08:23:18 <MagicalTux> er
702 2011-03-13 08:23:20 <MagicalTux> in bitcoins*
703 2011-03-13 08:23:22 <mizerydearia> mm, hiya MagicalTux
704 2011-03-13 08:23:34 <MagicalTux> hi mizerydearia
705 2011-03-13 08:23:43 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, Can we offer donations to you for you to allocate to Japanese in need?
706 2011-03-13 08:24:28 <mizerydearia> Perhaps you can establish a kind of bitcoin-specific promotional gesture of donation?
707 2011-03-13 08:24:35 <mizerydearia> e.g. those you donate to become introduced to Bitcoin also?
708 2011-03-13 08:24:35 <MagicalTux> mizerydearia: that's exactly what I'm thinking about, I'm just a bit afraid it might represent a bigger amount than what I can change to JPY
709 2011-03-13 08:25:21 <mizerydearia> well, even if it consumes the amount of some or many donations, as long as you have a modest amount to contribute to individuals or families, that may be helpful
710 2011-03-13 08:25:25 <JFK911> does japan need money? this earthquake caused their currency to surge.
711 2011-03-13 08:25:52 <mizerydearia> JFK911, As a nation, maybe not, but as individuals affected by the disaster, I imagine so
712 2011-03-13 08:26:08 <MagicalTux> JFK911: in Japan right now there are a lot of people who just lost their house, and are happy just to receive some rice
713 2011-03-13 08:26:14 <mizerydearia> yeah
714 2011-03-13 08:26:46 <MagicalTux> (they are already grateful to be still alive)
715 2011-03-13 08:27:05 <JFK911> thats as sad as katrina, because japan is a developed country with lots of resources
716 2011-03-13 08:27:37 <MagicalTux> JFK911: the main problem right now is probably the affected power plants
717 2011-03-13 08:27:45 <mizerydearia> 250 km is about 155 miles
718 2011-03-13 08:28:08 <mizerydearia> Did you say you were 250km or 450km away?
719 2011-03-13 08:28:14 <MagicalTux> 250km
720 2011-03-13 08:28:40 <mizerydearia> Have you traveled to nearby Sendai?
721 2011-03-13 08:28:49 <JFK911> i seriously hope people aren't starving. japan has a huge tariff on rice imports.
722 2011-03-13 08:29:22 <mizerydearia> Perhaps a massive donation of food supplies with a hint it bitcoin message would be nice?
723 2011-03-13 08:29:33 <mizerydearia> s/it/of/
724 2011-03-13 08:30:06 <MagicalTux> would just depend on how much we could collect in bitcoins
725 2011-03-13 08:30:22 <JFK911> i'm in the usa. it would be most useful to send valuable medical supplies and equipment from here via air
726 2011-03-13 08:30:26 <MagicalTux> also if a lot of people donate, it might deteriorate the global value of bitcoins, unless we can find a food supplier ready to be paid in bitcoins
727 2011-03-13 08:30:28 <JFK911> possibly even blood
728 2011-03-13 08:30:46 <MagicalTux> JFK911: here in Japan there's a surge of blood donations in all unaffected areas
729 2011-03-13 08:31:25 <JFK911> do foreigners have blood types that arent common in japan?
730 2011-03-13 08:31:41 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, I am not certain you will be able to establish convincing a food supplier to accept bitcoins, but if you do, that will be very helpful. However, in alternative case, perhaps you could order bulk food supplies from a local wholesaler?
731 2011-03-13 08:31:49 <mizerydearia> Or perhaps contact a local grocery store?
732 2011-03-13 08:32:07 <mizerydearia> and work with them to coordinate food supplies as donations from bitcoin payment?
733 2011-03-13 08:32:22 <mizerydearia> or maybe even a restaurant?
734 2011-03-13 08:32:30 <andrew12> http://andrew12.tumblr.com/post/3827469467/selling-tf2-items-for-bitcoin-or-paypal
735 2011-03-13 08:32:36 <andrew12> </spam>
736 2011-03-13 08:33:30 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, Have you submitted a bitcoin address for receiving donations?
737 2011-03-13 08:33:53 <MagicalTux> mizerydearia: I do not want to accept donations before I'm sure I'll be able to do something with those
738 2011-03-13 08:34:14 <mizerydearia> hmm
739 2011-03-13 08:34:17 <JFK911> well. japan certainly has been generous with donations to help out with other disasters in the past
740 2011-03-13 08:34:52 <MagicalTux> JFK911: and other countries are giving it back. This morning (~12 hours ago) teams sent by US, UK and Germany arrived in Japan
741 2011-03-13 08:34:52 <JFK911> is the government coordinating offers of assistance?
742 2011-03-13 08:35:10 <andrew12> OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT!
743 2011-03-13 08:35:11 <JFK911> yeah actually a local team from my area left yesterday
744 2011-03-13 08:35:18 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
745 2011-03-13 08:35:32 <MagicalTux> USA named it "Operation Tomodachi" (tomodachi=friend)
746 2011-03-13 08:35:37 <mizerydearia> heh
747 2011-03-13 08:35:51 <JFK911> i'm a telecom engineer, i've been to japan before, i could possibly help on the ground
748 2011-03-13 08:38:08 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, I imagine even though there is a tremendous amount of support already provided in which you may not be able to offer much assistance comparable to what is already offered, perhaps it may be worthy to still pursue offering some small or miniscule type of assistance with a bit of Bitcoin influence which helps to promote that the donations were funded by Bitcoin and also to promote aware of Bitcoin?
749 2011-03-13 08:38:25 <mizerydearia> awareness*
750 2011-03-13 08:38:47 <MagicalTux> mizerydearia: yep, anyway it doesn't cost anything to try
751 2011-03-13 08:39:38 <mizerydearia> And I imagine if you establish accepting donations for your pursuance of such an effort, you can help contribute and also spread more Bitcoin awareness throughout Japan.
752 2011-03-13 08:41:23 <mizerydearia> "I do not want to accept donations before I'm sure I'll be able to do something with those" ---- Is there something preventing you from being able to assist or help those that are affected>?
753 2011-03-13 08:41:41 <MagicalTux> I just need to find an efficient way to convert bitcoins in Japanese yens
754 2011-03-13 08:41:49 <mizerydearia> mm
755 2011-03-13 08:41:50 <mizerydearia> I see
756 2011-03-13 08:42:10 <mizerydearia> Well...
757 2011-03-13 08:42:19 <mizerydearia> Perhaps we can assist you in that effort.
758 2011-03-13 08:42:23 <JFK911> i found the japan banking system to be very restrictive
759 2011-03-13 08:42:43 <JFK911> wouldnt know where to begin
760 2011-03-13 08:43:02 <MagicalTux> right now, japan banks allow people to withdraw with only a proof of identity, even if they lost their seal and everything else
761 2011-03-13 08:43:08 <mizerydearia> Perhaps in a way that can help to convince at least one Japanese businesses (that can help to offer donation-liek goods) to accept Bitcoin payment
762 2011-03-13 08:43:44 <mizerydearia> ah, so for those that suffered loss in the disaster, they may not have any proof of identity and therefore unable to withdraw from bank?
763 2011-03-13 08:43:50 <MagicalTux> in the meantime I heared you can even donate to the red cross via iTunes
764 2011-03-13 08:44:38 <MagicalTux> mizerydearia: ID card is one of the most important things japanese people must keep with them when such an event occurs
765 2011-03-13 08:44:45 <mizerydearia> mm
766 2011-03-13 08:45:02 <MagicalTux> for those who don't have an id card, they can still receive free relief (food, water, blankets, place to sleep, etc)
767 2011-03-13 08:46:05 <MagicalTux> also I think if you registered your fingerprint with your bank account, you can probably withdraw with only the account number + a finger
768 2011-03-13 08:46:20 <mizerydearia> aww, you have to give up a finger to withdraw?
769 2011-03-13 08:46:30 <MagicalTux> they give it back to you after :D
770 2011-03-13 08:46:35 <mizerydearia> mm, that's nice
771 2011-03-13 08:46:55 <MagicalTux> anyway, it's not the first time Japan has to cope with this kind of event
772 2011-03-13 08:47:27 <MagicalTux> and they are more prepared than - say - thailand in 2004
773 2011-03-13 08:48:02 <MagicalTux> (or indonesia)
774 2011-03-13 08:48:35 <mizerydearia> btw, mixi is still the most popular social networking site in Japan, right?
775 2011-03-13 08:48:50 <mizerydearia> Does it still require Japan-based phone number for registration?
776 2011-03-13 08:49:02 <mizerydearia> or email address maybe?
777 2011-03-13 08:51:19 <MagicalTux> requires a japanese mobile phone email address
778 2011-03-13 08:55:16 <Diablo-D3> hey MagicalTux
779 2011-03-13 08:58:21 <theorbtwo> Hm. When I'm doing something like pooled bitcoin mining, is there any reason not to set the transfer threshold very low? I understand most peers won't process transactions of <0.01 bitcoin, but why not 0.10 bitcoin?
780 2011-03-13 08:58:51 <theorbtwo> OTOH, I don't know if it gives a transaction fee on it's outgoing payments, and who would pay for that transaction fee.
781 2011-03-13 08:58:51 <Diablo-D3> theorbtwo: because you get charged with fees below 1 btc
782 2011-03-13 08:59:15 <mizerydearia> Is https://btcex.com/ the only exchange market that provides Japanese Yen?
783 2011-03-13 08:59:49 <theorbtwo> Diablo-D3: Is that a feature of the network, or do you think that'd be a feature of the mining pool server?
784 2011-03-13 09:00:04 <Diablo-D3> thats part of the network.
785 2011-03-13 09:00:43 <mizerydearia> Japan Earthquake: before and after http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm
786 2011-03-13 09:00:49 <theorbtwo> Hm. I don't think I've seen that documented in my hreadings thus far.
787 2011-03-13 09:01:02 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
788 2011-03-13 09:02:36 <Diablo-D3> tx fees are documented.
789 2011-03-13 09:03:23 <theorbtwo> Diablo-D3: Yes, but they are also optional, and I thought at this point, feeless transactions would tend to get processed, if possibly a bit slower then fee-giving transactions.
790 2011-03-13 09:03:58 <Diablo-D3> nope, the network is generally just charging fees on tx below 1 btc
791 2011-03-13 09:06:26 <theorbtwo> Ah. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees seems to say that the default client requires fees on transactions below 0.01 BTC, not 1 BTC.
792 2011-03-13 09:07:37 <Diablo-D3> hrm, maybe it is 0.01.
793 2011-03-13 09:07:47 <Diablo-D3> still, pools spamming TXs still isnt a good thing
794 2011-03-13 09:08:00 <Diablo-D3> most people make more than 1BTC a day if they're seriously mining
795 2011-03-13 09:11:03 <lfm> theorbtwo: a threshol of 0.10 btc would be fine tho
796 2011-03-13 09:11:06 <mmagic> does the client prioritize its own transactions in its own mined blocks?
797 2011-03-13 09:11:23 <lfm> mmagic: prolly
798 2011-03-13 09:12:24 * theorbtwo sets it to 0.1 so he'll get some money in the next hourly send.
799 2011-03-13 09:12:40 <theorbtwo> I'm non-seriously mining, and I'm just getting started with bitcoin.
800 2011-03-13 09:14:23 <theorbtwo> Thus, I'd like to get some money available to play with -- more then the 0.05 from the faucet. OTOH, I'd also like to not spam the network too badly, nor deflate the value of the mining by making it pay transaction fees.
801 2011-03-13 09:14:47 <theorbtwo> I think I'll check blockexplorer once I get paid to figure out what the pool's outgoing transactions look like.
802 2011-03-13 09:16:54 <lfm> theorbtwo: set it to 0.10 till you get paid once then set it back to a larger value maybe?
803 2011-03-13 09:22:20 Syke_ has joined
804 2011-03-13 09:25:20 Syke has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
805 2011-03-13 09:31:18 Travex has joined
806 2011-03-13 09:31:24 <Travex> Hi guys
807 2011-03-13 09:31:34 <Travex> I've just got my first ever block generated !
808 2011-03-13 09:32:05 <mizerydearia> congrats Travex
809 2011-03-13 09:32:57 <Travex> Thx mate =D
810 2011-03-13 09:33:03 <lfm> Travex: wtg
811 2011-03-13 09:33:12 <Travex> however im wondering
812 2011-03-13 09:33:21 <Travex> can I turn off my GPU client now ?
813 2011-03-13 09:33:29 <Travex> or i have to wait until
814 2011-03-13 09:33:49 <mmagic> you can turn it off right now if you don't want to mine anymore. your block is still yours.
815 2011-03-13 09:33:58 <Travex> oh i see
816 2011-03-13 09:34:06 <Travex> because in my bitcoin client
817 2011-03-13 09:34:07 <lfm> if you dont want any more, ya. the one should be fully credited to within a day
818 2011-03-13 09:34:14 <Travex> yeah
819 2011-03-13 09:34:16 <Travex> it says
820 2011-03-13 09:34:32 <Travex> generated (50.oo matured in 120 blocks)
821 2011-03-13 09:34:45 <Travex> in 120 more blocks*
822 2011-03-13 09:34:46 <Travex> hehe
823 2011-03-13 09:35:00 <Travex> so i can just turn my gpu miner off now rite
824 2011-03-13 09:35:10 <lfm> ya the gpu is done with that one
825 2011-03-13 09:35:17 <Travex> oh great !
826 2011-03-13 09:35:27 <Travex> it took me 11 days >.>
827 2011-03-13 09:35:32 <lfm> not bad
828 2011-03-13 09:35:40 <Travex> :P
829 2011-03-13 09:37:28 <Travex> oh lfm how do i trace my block later in the blockexplorer.exe
830 2011-03-13 09:37:36 <Travex> what kind of information I have to put there ?
831 2011-03-13 09:37:57 <lfm> easiest is to note the exact time, then find the block number and note it
832 2011-03-13 09:38:09 <lfm> time in UTC
833 2011-03-13 09:38:54 <Travex> time in the bitcoin client you mean ?
834 2011-03-13 09:39:14 <lfm> time in the world when you found the block
835 2011-03-13 09:39:30 <Travex> oh alrity
836 2011-03-13 09:39:37 <lfm> UTC == GMT
837 2011-03-13 09:39:40 <Travex> i c
838 2011-03-13 09:39:47 <Travex> so lets say eveything is fine
839 2011-03-13 09:40:07 <Travex> then i will receive 50btc in my credit in a day later rite ?
840 2011-03-13 09:40:22 <Travex> bitcoin balance
841 2011-03-13 09:40:24 <lfm> should be yup
842 2011-03-13 09:40:56 <Travex> yeah, cool bro, thx for your help =D
843 2011-03-13 09:40:58 <Travex> thanks guys
844 2011-03-13 09:41:53 CFSworks has joined
845 2011-03-13 09:49:39 CFSworks has quit ()
846 2011-03-13 09:50:06 CFSworks has joined
847 2011-03-13 09:59:51 Travex has quit (Quit: Page closed)
848 2011-03-13 10:09:45 <da2ce7> ;;bc,calc 1000000
849 2011-03-13 10:09:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 10 seconds
850 2011-03-13 10:19:41 <MagicalTux> gotta love journalists
851 2011-03-13 10:20:00 <MagicalTux> one side: Deaths from #Japan quake, tsunami could top 10,000 - NHK
852 2011-03-13 10:20:00 <MagicalTux> other side: Quake Death Toll "Will Be Measured in Tens of Thousand"
853 2011-03-13 10:20:31 noagendamarket has joined
854 2011-03-13 10:23:39 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
855 2011-03-13 10:23:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113379 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1532 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 23 hours, 40 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67791.04664193
856 2011-03-13 10:24:03 paz has joined
857 2011-03-13 10:29:44 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
858 2011-03-13 10:29:59 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux: ha, anything happen to you?
859 2011-03-13 10:30:22 <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: I had to wait 30 minutes to get to the register at the supermarket to pay
860 2011-03-13 10:30:30 <MagicalTux> (oh and most goods there were sold out)
861 2011-03-13 10:30:37 <da2ce7> what do you mean register?
862 2011-03-13 10:30:40 <MagicalTux> er
863 2011-03-13 10:30:53 <MagicalTux> what was the word in english~
864 2011-03-13 10:30:54 <BlueMatt> I believe he meant checkout thing
865 2011-03-13 10:31:03 <BlueMatt> I think register is the right word
866 2011-03-13 10:31:32 <MagicalTux> the place with the nice lady that scans your stuff and asks you to pay
867 2011-03-13 10:31:44 <[Tycho]> http://www.metalseinen.com/forums/index.php?/topic/657-japan-and-its-weirdness-warning-might-crash-your-browser/page__pid__24933__st__120#entry24933
868 2011-03-13 10:31:48 <da2ce7> did you need to register your name, becasue of rasons or the que
869 2011-03-13 10:32:25 <MagicalTux> da2ce7: no
870 2011-03-13 10:33:27 <Sirius> cashier
871 2011-03-13 10:33:53 <MagicalTux> ah
872 2011-03-13 10:33:53 <MagicalTux> yeah
873 2011-03-13 10:33:55 <da2ce7> ah, ok. A friend of mine had to walk 4 hours home from Toyko.
874 2011-03-13 10:34:27 <MagicalTux> da2ce7: I live within Tokyo23, going home from work takes ~45 minutes by walking normally
875 2011-03-13 10:36:13 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
876 2011-03-13 10:37:49 <da2ce7> yeah, her brother had to walk 10 hours home :( he was wrecked.
877 2011-03-13 10:39:36 <da2ce7> Hoe much of the metro is back up and running?
878 2011-03-13 10:39:40 <da2ce7> *how
879 2011-03-13 10:49:05 <xelister> btw, so did USA delivered the cooling thing for atomic plant
880 2011-03-13 10:49:11 <xelister> or was USA lying as usuall
881 2011-03-13 10:58:17 Bth8 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
882 2011-03-13 10:59:21 larsivi has joined
883 2011-03-13 11:10:52 <xelister> 0.1 BTC for first person responding including link to creditable (BCC/CNN/wikipedia) page confirming this lie ;)
884 2011-03-13 11:12:37 <retinal> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/11/us-japan-quake-nuclear-coolant-idUSTRE72A7VF20110311
885 2011-03-13 11:13:21 <xelister> thanks retinal. USA liers heh. BTC addr?
886 2011-03-13 11:13:33 <retinal> thanks, but I'm good
887 2011-03-13 11:13:54 TD has joined
888 2011-03-13 11:13:56 Bth8 has joined
889 2011-03-13 11:17:24 <xelister> retinal: \o
890 2011-03-13 11:17:36 <xelister> btw, lots of links about JP situation are given in ##politics
891 2011-03-13 11:17:40 <xelister> about the power plant etc
892 2011-03-13 11:18:18 <retinal> eh, I usually don't watch news; it's always depressing
893 2011-03-13 11:18:24 <xelister> it usually ios
894 2011-03-13 11:18:26 <xelister> *is
895 2011-03-13 11:18:29 <retinal> sometimes I just look things up for the stunning pictures
896 2011-03-13 11:18:30 <retinal> eg http://english.aljazeera.net/photo_galleries/asia-pacific/20113111521996179.html
897 2011-03-13 11:18:48 <xelister> but how you know when gov fucks you up too much and its time to revolt or die trying lol
898 2011-03-13 11:18:48 <retinal> also http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/03/japan_earthquake_aftermath.html
899 2011-03-13 11:19:20 <retinal> I'd rather not be a first responder to such a situation, if you get what I mean
900 2011-03-13 11:20:05 <xelister> example, imaging right now usafags say: 1) any use of P2P, or linux = jailtime 2) any kind of erotics, below age of 21 y = jail 3) Avoiding being chipped -> jail. This is possible in next 10-20 years, look how far we gone in last 20 !!
901 2011-03-13 11:20:26 <xelister> retinal: you can be then a responder, or the slave
902 2011-03-13 11:20:55 <noagendamarket> who cares what the usa does?
903 2011-03-13 11:20:59 <retinal> ^^^
904 2011-03-13 11:21:06 <xelister> first USAfags^H^H the nazists came from the Jews, I didn't said nothing
905 2011-03-13 11:21:19 <xelister> then they came for DRM-avoiders, I didnt say anything
906 2011-03-13 11:21:39 <xelister> then they came for me for using linux/bitcoin, but there was noone left to say anything... ;)
907 2011-03-13 11:21:39 <BurtyB> noagendamarket obv. xelister does as they keep banging on about it day after day
908 2011-03-13 11:22:21 <noagendamarket> maybe been through the body scanners one too many times
909 2011-03-13 11:22:26 <noagendamarket> :)
910 2011-03-13 11:22:48 <xelister> noagendamarket: most 'good' ideas about trying to make us more like slaves: body scaners... ACTA... torrent bans.. 17 girl+boy is om pedo, etc, all camed from which country, before they affected most of civilized world?
911 2011-03-13 11:23:26 <Diablo-D3> ....
912 2011-03-13 11:23:36 <Diablo-D3> I have no clue what xelister just said
913 2011-03-13 11:23:49 <retinal> I'm too tired to bother
914 2011-03-13 11:23:51 <noagendamarket> well the english are also introducing lots of stuff
915 2011-03-13 11:24:18 <xelister> which country started all this stupid ideas like body scanners, ACTA, DMCA
916 2011-03-13 11:24:25 <Diablo-D3> noagendamarket: like a guide on how to speak it? ;D
917 2011-03-13 11:24:51 <noagendamarket> lol
918 2011-03-13 11:24:55 <xelister> <_<
919 2011-03-13 11:25:08 <noagendamarket> it wasnt a country it was politicians
920 2011-03-13 11:25:23 <noagendamarket> they are all the same all over the worlrd
921 2011-03-13 11:25:39 <xelister> they are?
922 2011-03-13 11:25:48 <xelister> then why ALL this ideas started in USA
923 2011-03-13 11:26:07 <Diablo-D3> because all the companies who profit are American
924 2011-03-13 11:26:10 <xelister> obviously almost all politicians are evil, but somehow USA seems to take a lead here
925 2011-03-13 11:26:12 <Diablo-D3> and most rich people are American
926 2011-03-13 11:26:13 <Diablo-D3> AAAAAAAAAAND
927 2011-03-13 11:26:23 <Diablo-D3> the EU has some pretty dumb shit too
928 2011-03-13 11:26:30 <Diablo-D3> its not like this is a problem in just the US
929 2011-03-13 11:26:36 <xelister> we do have, but all this ideas are imported from USA
930 2011-03-13 11:26:59 <Diablo-D3> what about france's three strikes and no more internet law
931 2011-03-13 11:27:11 <xelister> dunno if this is USA government forcing them on us silently, or more like "heey what more can we fuck up in law... oh, look what happens in USA, lets do such shit here too" or what
932 2011-03-13 11:27:16 <Diablo-D3> no trial, no representation, if you're accused you're guilty
933 2011-03-13 11:27:25 <xelister> Diablo-D3: this is shit. But it was after USA ideas, no?
934 2011-03-13 11:27:33 <Diablo-D3> nope
935 2011-03-13 11:27:41 <Diablo-D3> infact, ufcking France gave the Republicans the idea
936 2011-03-13 11:27:45 <Diablo-D3> now they keep trying to pass that here
937 2011-03-13 11:27:51 <Diablo-D3> thanks alot fuckers
938 2011-03-13 11:28:14 dust1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
939 2011-03-13 11:28:40 <xelister> from what I see the worst, anti-freedom countries in civilized world, are: USA, UK, FR, Australia.
940 2011-03-13 11:28:53 <xelister> Diablo-D3: well yea, fuck them
941 2011-03-13 11:28:59 <Diablo-D3> and not necessarily in that order either
942 2011-03-13 11:29:12 <xelister> what order do you think would be correct?
943 2011-03-13 11:29:43 <jercos> "Hi, do you have a discount for being extremely rich?"
944 2011-03-13 11:29:44 <xelister> Australia moralfags get extra points for saying small-breasted === child-porn (wtf??)
945 2011-03-13 11:30:07 <Diablo-D3> xelister: possibly UK
946 2011-03-13 11:30:10 <Diablo-D3> they kettle people
947 2011-03-13 11:30:28 <noagendamarket> the UK has lots of cameras
948 2011-03-13 11:30:30 <Diablo-D3> and also, AU sort of fucked itself there
949 2011-03-13 11:30:41 <Diablo-D3> they pissed off all the small breasted women enough that the law died
950 2011-03-13 11:30:42 <noagendamarket> we are fucked
951 2011-03-13 11:30:49 <xelister> Diablo-D3: btw, UK is the home of Freenet :) as you probably know
952 2011-03-13 11:30:55 <xelister> perhaps it was the reason
953 2011-03-13 11:30:55 <Diablo-D3> never piss off asia when you're that close to it
954 2011-03-13 11:31:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes, but the US is home of Tor.
955 2011-03-13 11:31:08 <noagendamarket> the stupid cunt prime minister is trying to introduce a carbon capo
956 2011-03-13 11:31:26 <noagendamarket> austrlaia is the home of steve irwin
957 2011-03-13 11:31:28 <noagendamarket> lol
958 2011-03-13 11:31:35 <noagendamarket> or it was
959 2011-03-13 11:31:48 <Diablo-D3> yes, was
960 2011-03-13 11:31:57 <Diablo-D3> he set animals rights back several decades
961 2011-03-13 11:32:03 <noagendamarket> lol
962 2011-03-13 11:32:25 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
963 2011-03-13 11:32:40 <noagendamarket> actually he did a lot for animal conservation
964 2011-03-13 11:33:06 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
965 2011-03-13 11:33:14 <da2ce7> lol 'animal rights' wtf?
966 2011-03-13 11:34:02 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: yes, animals have a right not to be molested by steve irwin
967 2011-03-13 11:34:22 <noagendamarket> they got revenge
968 2011-03-13 11:34:35 <xelister> da2ce7: animal rights usually is about not causing pain and so on
969 2011-03-13 11:35:16 <noagendamarket> anyway the chinese will pwn us all
970 2011-03-13 11:36:19 <noagendamarket> the politgicians are just getting us into practice
971 2011-03-13 11:36:21 <da2ce7> hmmm, I don't like causing pain to animal's I own, but I get to choose what i do with animal's I own... So If steve owned those animals... I might not agree with it, but I'm not going to force him to stop it. *back when he was alive.
972 2011-03-13 11:37:05 <xelister> da2ce7: there are usually laws to not cause pain to animals, especially uneeded pain and so on. This is good, no?
973 2011-03-13 11:37:23 <xelister> unneeded
974 2011-03-13 11:37:53 <da2ce7> well do we pay for the inforcement of those laws with tax? Who decides what 'right' an animal has? Who gets the moral say?
975 2011-03-13 11:38:17 <xelister> dunno.. I think such laws are a good thing... you dont agree?
976 2011-03-13 11:38:22 <dirtyfilthy> Who decides what "right" an infant has?
977 2011-03-13 11:38:36 <xelister> midnightmagic: btw so you are in JP now? how big part is without electrical power?
978 2011-03-13 11:39:15 <da2ce7> dirtyfilthy, I guess the parents of that infant.
979 2011-03-13 11:39:46 <dirtyfilthy> da2ce7: i think that line of thinking gets very dangerous very quickly
980 2011-03-13 11:39:56 <da2ce7> But I still consider a infant human much more inportant than an animal.
981 2011-03-13 11:40:13 <xelister> da2ce7: sure. but animals also should be protected
982 2011-03-13 11:40:38 <xelister> also, parent too... but if they like, throw child against the wall or beat him.. someone really should intervane
983 2011-03-13 11:40:48 <xelister> because infant cant yet defend itself or ask for help...
984 2011-03-13 11:40:57 * xelister thought this is obvious and everyone agrees on that?
985 2011-03-13 11:41:17 <da2ce7> exlister, what happens if the parents have cooks in a cage, and their child in a cage also?
986 2011-03-13 11:41:36 <xelister> hm
987 2011-03-13 11:41:39 <xelister> hm? cooks?
988 2011-03-13 11:41:41 <Diablo-D3> but why dont they just cook the child?
989 2011-03-13 11:41:59 <da2ce7> *chickens
990 2011-03-13 11:42:28 <Diablo-D3> cocks?
991 2011-03-13 11:42:39 <da2ce7> lol
992 2011-03-13 11:43:40 <da2ce7> the thing is that differnt people have differnt standards of what is right, as soon as there is an active inforcment of a so-called 'right' there is issues.
993 2011-03-13 11:43:58 <da2ce7> should vegan people linch me for eating meat?
994 2011-03-13 11:44:38 <Diablo-D3> no
995 2011-03-13 11:44:42 <Diablo-D3> otoh
996 2011-03-13 11:44:47 <Diablo-D3> you should be able to eat vegan people
997 2011-03-13 11:46:11 <dirtyfilthy> yeah so the question is when is enforcement of moral views acceptable
998 2011-03-13 11:46:52 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
999 2011-03-13 11:51:15 <Diablo-D3> well, never.
1000 2011-03-13 11:51:23 <Diablo-D3> morals is this quasi-religions concept thats bullshit
1001 2011-03-13 11:51:27 <dirtyfilthy> hahahaha
1002 2011-03-13 11:52:02 <Diablo-D3> laws should only exist to protect the producers in society, and force members of society to respect the boundaries of others
1003 2011-03-13 11:52:11 <dirtyfilthy> so you wouldn't intervene if a child was being beaten?
1004 2011-03-13 11:52:27 <Diablo-D3> are children not members of society?
1005 2011-03-13 11:52:39 <dirtyfilthy> is this not a moral view you are espousing?
1006 2011-03-13 11:52:42 <CFSworks> Are infants members of society?
1007 2011-03-13 11:52:51 <sipa> what boundaries are acceptable depends on moral views
1008 2011-03-13 11:53:04 <Diablo-D3> sipa: nope, not at all.
1009 2011-03-13 11:53:09 <xelister> we all agree that small children should not be heavly beeten? right? or what are we discussing now?
1010 2011-03-13 11:53:20 <Diablo-D3> the boundaries are exactly what I said
1011 2011-03-13 11:53:24 <Diablo-D3> the boundaries between others.
1012 2011-03-13 11:53:36 <Diablo-D3> as long as you're not effecting someone else, do whatever you want.
1013 2011-03-13 11:53:42 <sipa> if someone enters my private ground, do i have the righ to kill him?
1014 2011-03-13 11:53:56 <xelister> Diablo-D3: there is always problem in defining actually at which point the boundary is
1015 2011-03-13 11:54:15 <sipa> he is trespassing my boundary (enter my ground), but i am trespassing his (taking his life)
1016 2011-03-13 11:54:19 <sipa> which has priority?
1017 2011-03-13 11:54:23 <sipa> that's a moral view
1018 2011-03-13 11:54:42 <CFSworks> The way I roll: If he walks on my property, walk on his. Then he's a hypocrite for complaining.
1019 2011-03-13 11:54:48 <xelister> e.g. I could say that avoiding DRM affects me (less income) others can say DRM affects their managment of the thing they bougt. Both groups are somewhat correct (anti-DRM beeing more correct :)
1020 2011-03-13 11:55:11 <Diablo-D3> sipa: its not priority
1021 2011-03-13 11:55:16 <Diablo-D3> its a fifo stack.
1022 2011-03-13 11:55:22 <dirtyfilthy> there's a big problem in that we are pretty much always affecting other people
1023 2011-03-13 11:55:23 <xelister> CFSworks: ha =)
1024 2011-03-13 11:57:50 ZenMondo1 has joined
1025 2011-03-13 12:13:35 datathe1st has joined
1026 2011-03-13 12:14:36 <datathe1st> ;;bc,stats
1027 2011-03-13 12:14:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113388 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1523 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67709.82264192
1028 2011-03-13 12:15:05 <datathe1st> Glad to see difficulty will be going down, however, I wonder if mytery miner will come back once it does
1029 2011-03-13 12:16:44 <datathe1st> I posted this in the forums but I really want the developers and coders amongst us to read it and give valuable intelligent feedback because I am new to this scene
1030 2011-03-13 12:16:48 <datathe1st> please read http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4424.0
1031 2011-03-13 12:16:54 <datathe1st> Thank you
1032 2011-03-13 12:18:08 <Diablo-D3> [07:55:13] <dirtyfilthy> there's a big problem in that we are pretty much always affecting other people
1033 2011-03-13 12:18:14 <Diablo-D3> yes, and that problem needs to be solved.
1034 2011-03-13 12:18:48 <datathe1st> diablo, I assume you wrote the diablo miner?
1035 2011-03-13 12:19:24 <datathe1st> what are your thoughts on the bitcoinpool.com pool? They recommend your miner and advocate a ratio of get works to completed shares of close to 1:1. Your thoughts?
1036 2011-03-13 12:19:50 <datathe1st> ;;bc,help
1037 2011-03-13 12:19:51 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
1038 2011-03-13 12:20:18 <datathe1st> ;;bc,nexttarget
1039 2011-03-13 12:20:18 <gribble> 114911
1040 2011-03-13 12:20:34 <datathe1st> ;;bc,prob
1041 2011-03-13 12:20:34 <gribble> (bc,prob <an alias, at least 1 argument>) -- Alias for "math calc 1-exp(-$1*1000 * [seconds $*] / (2**32* [bc,diff]))".
1042 2011-03-13 12:20:49 <datathe1st> ;;bc,prob 10
1043 2011-03-13 12:20:50 <gribble> Error: There's really no reason why you should have underscores or brackets in your mathematical expression. Please remove them.
1044 2011-03-13 12:23:21 <datathe1st> goodnight all. I just bought my first two 5870s for the express purpose of mining today because I was able to pick them up for $220 per. It was an exciting night and I've stayed up way too late but it was fun. Please respond on the forum with your thoughts on my post there. Again I'm new so I might have made some fundamental mistakes but I hope not: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4424.0
1045 2011-03-13 12:28:00 datathe1st has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1046 2011-03-13 12:28:17 <xelister> What would you use to share files between few computers, with versioning. Like rsync, but versioning... like SVN, but more automatic. Perhaps SVN + scripts to auto add/remove files?
1047 2011-03-13 12:29:13 <CFSworks> xelister: I would not be one to ask. I would end up doing something stupid like using MediaWiki and Base64-encoding the files.
1048 2011-03-13 12:29:37 <da2ce7> maybe just use GIT?
1049 2011-03-13 12:29:46 <da2ce7> and push between the two computers?
1050 2011-03-13 12:30:42 <CFSworks> Supposedly there's something called "RsyncX" that does versioning. I don't know, I just Googled it, so I didn't check it out.
1051 2011-03-13 12:31:02 <CFSworks> Ah, it's just a port of rsync to OS X.
1052 2011-03-13 12:31:56 <xelister> not yet in debian/ubuntu it seems though
1053 2011-03-13 12:32:00 <xelister> sparkleshare seems interesting
1054 2011-03-13 12:32:31 <CFSworks> What isn't, RsyncX or git? I'd be surprised if your distro's apt-get lacked git...
1055 2011-03-13 12:32:45 <xelister> the sparkleshare thing
1056 2011-03-13 12:32:48 <xelister> http://sparkleshare.org/
1057 2011-03-13 12:32:51 <xelister> looks promising
1058 2011-03-13 12:33:12 <CFSworks> Now that's cool.
1059 2011-03-13 12:33:57 <CFSworks> By "more automatic" do you mean you want file changes to be pushed directly to the other peers, and not have them have to download from an SVN server?
1060 2011-03-13 12:34:21 <xelister> CFSworks: mostly that I do not want to always do lots of svn add by hand
1061 2011-03-13 12:34:23 * BurtyB uses wuala to sync a folder
1062 2011-03-13 12:34:53 * da2ce7 think that windows live mesh is good if you are on windows.
1063 2011-03-13 12:35:27 <CFSworks> Wow, supposedly Wuala is free. What's the catch, BurtyB?
1064 2011-03-13 12:35:53 <xelister> da2ce7: :-O
1065 2011-03-13 12:35:55 * xelister bitchslaps da2ce7
1066 2011-03-13 12:36:13 TD has joined
1067 2011-03-13 12:36:35 * da2ce7 backhands xelister
1068 2011-03-13 12:36:48 <BurtyB> CFSworks if you want pro features you have to share disk space (or buy it)
1069 2011-03-13 12:36:57 <da2ce7> "Know your place, you didn't become my bottom bitch by talking back!"
1070 2011-03-13 12:37:52 <CFSworks> Oh, so you share space so other people can store encrypted backups on your drive? Dang. I had that idea a while ago... I want my cut.
1071 2011-03-13 12:37:59 AmpEater has joined
1072 2011-03-13 12:38:24 <xelister> CFSworks: =)
1073 2011-03-13 12:38:38 <xelister> CFSworks: why not run a freenet node, its fun implementation of such idea
1074 2011-03-13 12:39:06 <BurtyB> CFSworks heh - I run it on a couple of servers with 100GB so I've got plenty of free space :)
1075 2011-03-13 12:39:32 cosurgi has joined
1076 2011-03-13 12:39:38 <CFSworks> Never had a chance to play with Freenet. I should probably run it on a server with inbound ports open, though.
1077 2011-03-13 12:40:10 Zarutian has joined
1078 2011-03-13 12:41:05 CFSworks has quit (Quit: ZZZ)
1079 2011-03-13 12:41:08 * da2ce7 thinks that freenet is good, supports the project.
1080 2011-03-13 12:41:25 <xelister> :)
1081 2011-03-13 12:42:22 <AmpEater> I support tor and i2p, now I get to play with free net
1082 2011-03-13 12:43:47 * da2ce7 is thinking of finding 1000BTC to bankroll the btcfn project... however think that it isn't a wise thing in the long run... need to get the comunity to pay for it themselves.
1083 2011-03-13 12:48:57 <AmpEater> Still researching, but I'll be adding to btcfn bounty
1084 2011-03-13 12:49:29 <AmpEater> Prolly not 1000btc though :)
1085 2011-03-13 12:49:52 <da2ce7> dang, :( but thanks for adding any ammount.
1086 2011-03-13 12:50:23 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1087 2011-03-13 12:51:15 Jeroenz0r has quit (Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.8.8 Beta Build (130311-1))
1088 2011-03-13 12:51:24 Jeroenz0r has joined
1089 2011-03-13 12:51:25 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
1090 2011-03-13 12:51:25 Jeroenz0r has joined
1091 2011-03-13 12:56:53 <xelister> AmpEater: :)
1092 2011-03-13 12:57:40 <da2ce7> AmpEater, whatever ammount you want to donate :)
1093 2011-03-13 12:58:11 <AmpEater> I really like the bounty concept
1094 2011-03-13 12:58:42 <AmpEater> Community incentivizes the tools they want built
1095 2011-03-13 12:58:51 <AmpEater> Awesome
1096 2011-03-13 13:02:46 <xelister> yeap
1097 2011-03-13 13:02:51 echelon has joined
1098 2011-03-13 13:02:59 <xelister> AmpEater: see PM (Im bbl)
1099 2011-03-13 13:03:30 <xelister> AmpEater btw you are not reginstered user on Freenode. you cant write to PM probably. See /msg chanserv register
1100 2011-03-13 13:03:50 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1101 2011-03-13 13:03:57 TD has joined
1102 2011-03-13 13:04:07 TD_ has joined
1103 2011-03-13 13:04:15 TD_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1104 2011-03-13 13:04:23 TD has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1105 2011-03-13 13:04:49 TD has joined
1106 2011-03-13 13:12:39 henux has joined
1107 2011-03-13 13:12:45 <xelister> lol wat... my new coworker, looks totally like ME GUSTA.
1108 2011-03-13 13:14:24 <xelister> he should be in marketing secion.
1109 2011-03-13 13:14:31 osearth has joined
1110 2011-03-13 13:14:38 <xelister> - ok I want to be your new customer
1111 2011-03-13 13:14:43 <xelister> - :me gusta: ME GUSTA.
1112 2011-03-13 13:15:57 <osearth> is there a way to only search for keys when my windows screen saver is on.
1113 2011-03-13 13:16:13 <henux> Hi, I have an idea for a Bitcoin DNS kind of system. I know DNS's have been considered before, but this is a new kind of idea,
1114 2011-03-13 13:16:50 <xelister> henux: I already have my dns-audion system patented.
1115 2011-03-13 13:16:55 <xelister> auction
1116 2011-03-13 13:17:14 <henux> Basically this would be a web service for an open database of btc address <-> nickname with a API which others could also use
1117 2011-03-13 13:18:29 <henux> Ownership of the nickname would be determined by the amount of bitcoins donated to an address. That is, the one who donates the largest number of coins to some btc address, gets to name it. In this way, the one who controls the wallet of the address always gets to name it since he would essentially donate to himself
1118 2011-03-13 13:19:01 <henux> There would be some web interface for this database along with an JSON API
1119 2011-03-13 13:19:15 <henux> Do you think this might be useful?
1120 2011-03-13 13:20:02 <henux> xelister: what kind of system is that?
1121 2011-03-13 13:20:15 <xelister> I'm bbl
1122 2011-03-13 13:20:24 <xelister> its an automatic auction idea
1123 2011-03-13 13:20:44 <henux> xelister: maybe you could integrate your system into my dns lookup?
1124 2011-03-13 13:21:03 <osearth> thought i just seen a nickname > btc addr system on bitcoinnews
1125 2011-03-13 13:21:04 <henux> the point of this database would be to allow third party developers to use it
1126 2011-03-13 13:21:08 <xelister> perhaps... PM me URL of the idea, email etc
1127 2011-03-13 13:21:19 <henux> i don't have it done yet
1128 2011-03-13 13:21:48 <henux> I'm just asking would this kind of database gain adoptance or support from others if I would implement it
1129 2011-03-13 13:25:46 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1130 2011-03-13 13:26:35 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1131 2011-03-13 13:31:14 <da2ce7> https://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/
1132 2011-03-13 13:32:41 tower has joined
1133 2011-03-13 13:35:16 tower is now known as towerX
1134 2011-03-13 13:39:07 sabalaba has joined
1135 2011-03-13 13:39:49 forrestv has joined
1136 2011-03-13 13:46:24 <forrestv> ArtForz, i was asking about a python implementation of bitcoin and someone mentioned that you might have created one
1137 2011-03-13 13:46:36 <forrestv> i found http://pastebin.com/ZSM7iHZw - is that a complete implementation of the protocol or just a dumb client?
1138 2011-03-13 13:50:38 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1139 2011-03-13 13:50:54 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1140 2011-03-13 13:57:56 sabalaba has joined
1141 2011-03-13 13:59:33 tower has joined
1142 2011-03-13 13:59:57 Necr0s_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1143 2011-03-13 14:02:10 tower is now known as towerX
1144 2011-03-13 14:02:21 Jeroenz0r has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1145 2011-03-13 14:02:48 Jeroenz0r has joined
1146 2011-03-13 14:02:49 Jeroenz0r has quit (Changing host)
1147 2011-03-13 14:02:49 Jeroenz0r has joined
1148 2011-03-13 14:06:58 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1149 2011-03-13 14:07:08 paz has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1150 2011-03-13 14:11:39 ZenMondo1 has left ()
1151 2011-03-13 14:15:21 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1152 2011-03-13 14:19:00 tower has joined
1153 2011-03-13 14:21:14 tower is now known as towerX
1154 2011-03-13 14:27:03 genjix has joined
1155 2011-03-13 14:27:03 genjix has quit (Changing host)
1156 2011-03-13 14:27:03 genjix has joined
1157 2011-03-13 14:27:15 <genjix> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1158 2011-03-13 14:27:19 <genjix> "Police warn that the death toll in one of the worst-hit areas is likely to exceed 10,000."
1159 2011-03-13 14:27:31 <genjix> 10, 000 people + a nuclear meltdown. WTF
1160 2011-03-13 14:29:42 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1161 2011-03-13 14:30:33 hazek has joined
1162 2011-03-13 14:33:42 <genjix> by comparison sept 11 had 3k killed and lead to world war 3
1163 2011-03-13 14:34:54 <henux> genjix: hi i heard you were developing some kind of bitcoin DNS?
1164 2011-03-13 14:41:05 <genjix> henux: more like a Bitcoin address NS
1165 2011-03-13 14:41:25 <genjix> bitcoin DNS is something else (a DNS system based on bitcoin)
1166 2011-03-13 14:41:37 <henux> yes how does your system work?
1167 2011-03-13 14:42:03 <henux> I had an idea of nick <--> bitcoin address mapping
1168 2011-03-13 14:42:05 <genjix> now or after my next changes? ;)
1169 2011-03-13 14:42:10 <henux> in general
1170 2011-03-13 14:42:14 <henux> what's it about?
1171 2011-03-13 14:42:16 <genjix> oh cool, then let me explain:
1172 2011-03-13 14:42:52 <genjix> you get yourself some free cheap hosting and bar.org
1173 2011-03-13 14:43:03 <genjix> (LAMP)
1174 2011-03-13 14:43:17 <genjix> upload some php files and setup mysql as per the usage instructions
1175 2011-03-13 14:43:28 <genjix> that's how you create a 'provider'
1176 2011-03-13 14:43:35 <henux> ok
1177 2011-03-13 14:44:13 <genjix> then in bitcoin when you refer to somenick@bar.org or somenick@bar.org:443 or somenick@23.44.98.1 or .etc
1178 2011-03-13 14:44:28 <genjix> then it splits off somenick and looks it up using bar.org
1179 2011-03-13 14:44:47 <genjix> it can also have an optional path like somenick@bar.org/path/to/
1180 2011-03-13 14:45:00 <genjix> there's 3 methods:
1181 2011-03-13 14:45:10 <genjix> http://fishysnax.com/getaddress/?nickname=genjix
1182 2011-03-13 14:45:22 <genjix> (uses GET)
1183 2011-03-13 14:45:37 <genjix> and the other methods use POST (for changing data)
1184 2011-03-13 14:45:54 <henux> alright
1185 2011-03-13 14:45:59 <genjix> setaddress [address] [password]
1186 2011-03-13 14:46:12 <genjix> setnewpassword [pass] [newpass]
1187 2011-03-13 14:46:36 <genjix> anyway I'm thinking of changing it
1188 2011-03-13 14:46:49 <henux> i think that's a cool idea, but i had a different kine of idea myself
1189 2011-03-13 14:46:53 <henux> want to hear about it?
1190 2011-03-13 14:46:59 <genjix> so that the first time you create an account, you have to upload your ssh public key
1191 2011-03-13 14:47:06 <genjix> yeah go ahead
1192 2011-03-13 14:47:20 <genjix> (and login with openID)
1193 2011-03-13 14:47:40 <henux> okay this would be an open database of nick <--> address mapping, and the service would provide a JSON API for searching nicks and addresses
1194 2011-03-13 14:48:19 <genjix> that's what it is now.
1195 2011-03-13 14:48:27 <genjix> http://fishysnax.com/getaddress/?nickname=genjix
1196 2011-03-13 14:48:39 <henux> basically, you could attach a nick to an address you register, and the one who donates the greatest amount of coins to a specific address gets to name it. therefore, the one who owns the address always gets to name it, because you can always donate as much as you want to yourself
1197 2011-03-13 14:49:23 <henux> when you donate to an address you control, you donate to yourself
1198 2011-03-13 14:49:42 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1199 2011-03-13 14:50:03 <genjix> that's a cool idea
1200 2011-03-13 14:50:33 <henux> the api would be something like, http://bitcoinregistry.org/getaddress?nick=henux
1201 2011-03-13 14:50:53 <henux> http://bitcoinregistry.org/getnick?address=....
1202 2011-03-13 14:50:57 <genjix> 404
1203 2011-03-13 14:51:18 <henux> its not done yet
1204 2011-03-13 14:51:21 <henux> its just an idea
1205 2011-03-13 14:51:43 <genjix> about the idea above though
1206 2011-03-13 14:51:55 <henux> i was thinking if i should do this since i heard you were already doing similar
1207 2011-03-13 14:52:24 <genjix> well it works, but i need to work out the security issue.
1208 2011-03-13 14:52:38 <genjix> the idea above sounds cool, but not sure if it's totally secure or desirable.
1209 2011-03-13 14:52:47 <henux> yeah maybe
1210 2011-03-13 14:52:47 <genjix> atm you use a plaintext password
1211 2011-03-13 14:53:16 <genjix> i think maybe people should login to the actual website and upload their public ssh key.
1212 2011-03-13 14:53:25 <genjix> and login using OpenID
1213 2011-03-13 14:53:47 <genjix> and if you only wanted to provide the service for yourself, then you can.
1214 2011-03-13 14:53:57 <genjix> Also I want to make the webservice into a REST api
1215 2011-03-13 14:55:23 <henux> yeah
1216 2011-03-13 14:55:30 <retinal> A volcano in southwestern Japan erupted Sunday after nearly two weeks of relative silence, sending ash and rocks up to four kilometres (two and a half miles) into the air, a local official says.
1217 2011-03-13 14:55:32 <retinal> gg, Japan
1218 2011-03-13 14:56:35 tower has joined
1219 2011-03-13 14:56:35 Syke_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1220 2011-03-13 14:57:23 Syke_ has joined
1221 2011-03-13 14:57:52 <genjix> henux: i'm trying to think about that idea of yours.
1222 2011-03-13 14:57:56 <Diablo-D3> retinal: bullshit, url
1223 2011-03-13 14:57:57 <genjix> doesn't it have 2 flaws?
1224 2011-03-13 14:58:03 <henux> genjix: which?
1225 2011-03-13 14:58:21 <genjix> - you need to move money into that address and out again before you can use it.
1226 2011-03-13 14:58:54 <retinal> Diablo-D3: http://www.google.com/search?q=japan+volcano
1227 2011-03-13 14:59:01 <retinal> not sure which source you'd want
1228 2011-03-13 14:59:03 <henux> genjix: nope, you just donate coins to that address, the one who donates the largest amount gets to name it in that database
1229 2011-03-13 14:59:05 <genjix> - if i upload a new address with 0 btc on it, then someone can hijack it by sending 1 btc
1230 2011-03-13 14:59:19 <Diablo-D3> Goddamnit.
1231 2011-03-13 14:59:20 <Diablo-D3> oh
1232 2011-03-13 14:59:37 <Diablo-D3> "after two weeks of dormancy"
1233 2011-03-13 14:59:43 <Diablo-D3> not news, nothing to see here, move along
1234 2011-03-13 14:59:47 <henux> genjix: but the coins would go to an address which you would control, someone else trying to hijack it would send money to you and you could hijack it again by sending more
1235 2011-03-13 14:59:48 <genjix> henux: right so if i make a new address with 0 btc, then i need to move funds to that address
1236 2011-03-13 14:59:55 <henux> genjix: yes
1237 2011-03-13 15:00:33 <henux> genjix: the idea is to name an address which you own
1238 2011-03-13 15:00:34 <genjix> Diablo-D3: holy shit... they're also having the possibility of 2 nuclear meltdowns
1239 2011-03-13 15:00:39 <retinal> Diablo-D3: usually not a problem, but with the current state of matters, eh
1240 2011-03-13 15:00:47 <Diablo-D3> genjix: no
1241 2011-03-13 15:00:49 <Diablo-D3> genjix: one.
1242 2011-03-13 15:00:53 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1243 2011-03-13 15:00:54 <genjix> no there's a 3rd
1244 2011-03-13 15:01:16 <Diablo-D3> the Okinawa plant reported a problem with water leakage.
1245 2011-03-13 15:01:16 <genjix> There are now problems at the number three reactor - the concern is that it is overheating. They're trying to pump sea water through it at the moment. That's an unusual, somewhat innovative solution to the problem. But the fact that they're prepared to consider unusual solutions like that gives you a hint of just how serious the problem is.
1246 2011-03-13 15:01:17 <Diablo-D3> thats it.
1247 2011-03-13 15:01:29 <genjix> BBC
1248 2011-03-13 15:01:32 <Diablo-D3> genjix: all three of those reactors are _the same plant_
1249 2011-03-13 15:01:42 <Diablo-D3> and all sitting next to each other
1250 2011-03-13 15:01:47 <genjix> also this video is horrible, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646
1251 2011-03-13 15:01:55 <Diablo-D3> like, I can stand on one, piss, and hit the other
1252 2011-03-13 15:01:55 <henux> genjix: now one can hijack your address even by sending 1,000 BTC to it, since the coins goes to you and you can take it back by sending 1,000.1 BTC
1253 2011-03-13 15:01:59 <genjix> when the boats go under the bridge. I'd hate to die by drowning.
1254 2011-03-13 15:02:23 <Diablo-D3> genjix: reactor 1 had a primary cooling fault, and one of the backups has also failed due to the tusnami
1255 2011-03-13 15:02:58 <genjix> henux: so.... say I post a new address on IRC for recieving money and go AFK
1256 2011-03-13 15:03:07 <genjix> i'm expecting 1000 BTC
1257 2011-03-13 15:03:09 <Diablo-D3> genjix: the reactor has not been breached, and the scram procedure was completed before the ground stopped shaking
1258 2011-03-13 15:03:24 <genjix> attacker hijacks address, gets money
1259 2011-03-13 15:03:33 <genjix> before I have a chance to respond.
1260 2011-03-13 15:03:46 <Diablo-D3> genjix: reactor 3 is also having the same problems, but after the first 1 did
1261 2011-03-13 15:03:48 <Diablo-D3> it just too longer
1262 2011-03-13 15:03:51 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: yup
1263 2011-03-13 15:03:54 <genjix> i see. didn't know.
1264 2011-03-13 15:04:15 <henux> genjix: the attacker tries to hijack your address in the db, by sending 1000 BTC to it, but the coins would end to you since you own that address
1265 2011-03-13 15:04:20 <Diablo-D3> this is a 40 year old reactor, it was supposed to be decomissioned in feb, government decided to give it another 10 years because its surviving so well
1266 2011-03-13 15:04:21 <genjix> i was kind of in favour of nuclear power before this incident...
1267 2011-03-13 15:04:30 <Diablo-D3> genjix: there was no "incidient"
1268 2011-03-13 15:04:39 <genjix> henux: no
1269 2011-03-13 15:04:40 <Diablo-D3> it was designed for a 7.9 quake, this was a 9.0
1270 2011-03-13 15:04:56 <ArtForz> well, the quake wasnt the problem
1271 2011-03-13 15:05:04 <Diablo-D3> the tsunami was
1272 2011-03-13 15:05:05 <genjix> henux: i post address on IRC expecting payment. it has 40 btc in it and i expect 1000 btc.
1273 2011-03-13 15:05:12 <ArtForz> yep
1274 2011-03-13 15:05:15 <genjix> attacker sends 100 btc to claim address
1275 2011-03-13 15:05:19 <Diablo-D3> the primary cooling failed, and the secondary cooling failed
1276 2011-03-13 15:05:21 <genjix> profits 900 btc
1277 2011-03-13 15:05:22 <ArtForz> what genius put the diesel gens that low...
1278 2011-03-13 15:05:25 <Diablo-D3> and _nothing happened_
1279 2011-03-13 15:05:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they've never had a tsunami this bad
1280 2011-03-13 15:05:42 <ArtForz> well, until the battery backup ran out
1281 2011-03-13 15:05:47 <Diablo-D3> and as I said, _40 years old_
1282 2011-03-13 15:05:53 <Diablo-D3> they dont make them like this anymore
1283 2011-03-13 15:05:55 <ArtForz> yep
1284 2011-03-13 15:05:58 <Diablo-D3> they dont even need backup cooling
1285 2011-03-13 15:06:05 <ArtForz> iirc it's a 50s GE design
1286 2011-03-13 15:06:06 <genjix> how comes they don't put nuclear reactors in the middle of rain forests?
1287 2011-03-13 15:06:16 <ArtForz> well, they do
1288 2011-03-13 15:06:18 <genjix> + no fear of radiation
1289 2011-03-13 15:06:20 <Diablo-D3> primary water cooling is gravity fed on new reactors.
1290 2011-03-13 15:06:22 <henux> genjix: the attacker can only change the name of the address in the database
1291 2011-03-13 15:06:26 <ArtForz> on new reactors, yes
1292 2011-03-13 15:06:31 <genjix> + animals are perfectly fine with radiation.
1293 2011-03-13 15:06:31 <Diablo-D3> you just pour the water in, and it works
1294 2011-03-13 15:06:36 <Diablo-D3> genjix: they do.
1295 2011-03-13 15:06:42 <ArtForz> thermosyphon is enough to keep a modern reactor from meltdown
1296 2011-03-13 15:06:45 <Diablo-D3> there are reactors in heavily forested areas.
1297 2011-03-13 15:06:47 tower has joined
1298 2011-03-13 15:06:55 <Diablo-D3> a reactor meltdown isnt even an issue.
1299 2011-03-13 15:07:12 <ArtForz> well, you got a scrap reactor afterwards ...
1300 2011-03-13 15:07:12 <genjix> cool
1301 2011-03-13 15:07:18 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
1302 2011-03-13 15:07:22 <Diablo-D3> but you dont get Russia.
1303 2011-03-13 15:07:26 <ArtForz> nope
1304 2011-03-13 15:07:28 <ArtForz> see TMI
1305 2011-03-13 15:07:31 <Diablo-D3> because I refuse to accept Chernobyl as a nuclear reactor
1306 2011-03-13 15:07:35 <genjix> because i was thinking how for humans radiation is bad, but in nature it's a minor thing.
1307 2011-03-13 15:07:37 <Diablo-D3> its a nuclear _bomb_
1308 2011-03-13 15:07:46 <Diablo-D3> genjix: its not bad for humans either.
1309 2011-03-13 15:07:54 <genjix> so it's not a problem to dose animals a ton either.
1310 2011-03-13 15:08:03 <genjix> Diablo-D3: yeah well 2% rise in cancer is bad.
1311 2011-03-13 15:08:07 <Diablo-D3> TMI, which is the worst not-Russian incident in history, did not elevate cancer in the region.
1312 2011-03-13 15:08:14 <Diablo-D3> 2% is arguable.
1313 2011-03-13 15:08:34 <Diablo-D3> thats a statistical margin of error with the small study size
1314 2011-03-13 15:08:38 <genjix> henux: i don't understand. can u explain how that attack isn't possible?
1315 2011-03-13 15:08:40 <ArtForz> if you're worried about radiation, worry about natural radon gas
1316 2011-03-13 15:08:57 <Diablo-D3> after TMI, the government tracked everybody for 20 years that was in the area, no matter where they moved
1317 2011-03-13 15:09:06 <Diablo-D3> there was no increased rate of cancer.
1318 2011-03-13 15:09:11 tower is now known as towerX
1319 2011-03-13 15:09:21 <genjix> heh, I was reading arguments against going to mars and one of them was the 2% rise in radiation for the crew
1320 2011-03-13 15:09:23 <henux> genjix: if the attacker hijacks your address and renames it to himself, you can easily take it back?
1321 2011-03-13 15:09:26 <Diablo-D3> the reactor was not breached in TMI, and had no risk of such.
1322 2011-03-13 15:09:29 <ArtForz> yep
1323 2011-03-13 15:09:34 <Diablo-D3> genjix: for the _crew_ sure
1324 2011-03-13 15:09:36 <ArtForz> meltdown != containment breach
1325 2011-03-13 15:09:43 <genjix> henux: how about if i'm not around to take it back?
1326 2011-03-13 15:09:46 <Diablo-D3> meltdown == literally, the fuel rods melted.
1327 2011-03-13 15:09:47 <genjix> i.e i go outside
1328 2011-03-13 15:09:51 <genjix> as happens :p
1329 2011-03-13 15:09:52 <ArtForz> yep
1330 2011-03-13 15:09:55 <henux> genjix: would it be a problem?
1331 2011-03-13 15:10:12 <Diablo-D3> genjix: hell, you have the fucking news keeps repeating this 8x more than normal radiation inside the building figure
1332 2011-03-13 15:10:14 <Diablo-D3> this means _shit_
1333 2011-03-13 15:10:17 <genjix> well it is if you expect a payment.
1334 2011-03-13 15:10:20 <henux> genjix: since the attacker can't profit from hijacking your address since you own the address
1335 2011-03-13 15:10:25 <Diablo-D3> inside the building its lower than background
1336 2011-03-13 15:10:28 <Diablo-D3> 8x higher is nothing
1337 2011-03-13 15:10:39 <Diablo-D3> you dont start giving a shit until its 100x more than background.
1338 2011-03-13 15:10:40 <henux> genjix: it can only rename it temp
1339 2011-03-13 15:10:44 <ArtForz> well, they vented primary coolant steam, of course theres increased radiation...
1340 2011-03-13 15:10:51 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
1341 2011-03-13 15:10:58 <genjix> what? I'm lost...
1342 2011-03-13 15:11:02 <ArtForz> in other news, water is wet
1343 2011-03-13 15:11:07 <henux> genjix: in PM
1344 2011-03-13 15:11:14 <Diablo-D3> and then the secondary containment wall blew up
1345 2011-03-13 15:11:19 <Diablo-D3> because of hydrogen
1346 2011-03-13 15:11:21 <ArtForz> yep
1347 2011-03-13 15:11:26 <genjix> no lets move to #bitcoin-discussion
1348 2011-03-13 15:11:26 <Diablo-D3> which still means shit
1349 2011-03-13 15:11:38 <Diablo-D3> secondary containment wall == a tin shack built around the primary containment wall
1350 2011-03-13 15:12:01 <Diablo-D3> primary contaiment wall == a 6-12 foot concrete box with radiation sheilding out the ass
1351 2011-03-13 15:12:07 <Diablo-D3> its also explosion proof
1352 2011-03-13 15:12:08 <ArtForz> yep
1353 2011-03-13 15:12:22 <Diablo-D3> the impossible could happen, and it would happily eat it.
1354 2011-03-13 15:12:31 <ArtForz> yep
1355 2011-03-13 15:12:55 <OneFixt> http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm
1356 2011-03-13 15:13:15 <ArtForz> as far as I can tell, with this design worst case you get a molten core sitting in the primary containment vessel
1357 2011-03-13 15:13:16 <Diablo-D3> the news needs to shut the fuck up, really
1358 2011-03-13 15:13:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: corium.
1359 2011-03-13 15:13:32 <Diablo-D3> theres actually an official term for it.
1360 2011-03-13 15:13:34 <ArtForz> yep
1361 2011-03-13 15:13:41 <Diablo-D3> TMI produced corium
1362 2011-03-13 15:13:57 <Diablo-D3> Chernobyl produced a fast neutron reaction.
1363 2011-03-13 15:14:03 <Keefe> it's been quite annoying that all they seem to talk about is that the reactor containment *vessel* is still intact, which is inside that 6 ft concrete containment building, right?
1364 2011-03-13 15:14:19 <Diablo-D3> what DIDNT blow up produced corium.... after it cooled for 6 days
1365 2011-03-13 15:14:34 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: yes
1366 2011-03-13 15:14:36 <ArtForz> yes
1367 2011-03-13 15:14:41 <Keefe> they don't clarify that there's actually still *two* good containers between the core and the environment
1368 2011-03-13 15:14:46 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: you have the main reactor itself, then the concrete box, then the box that keeps the weather out
1369 2011-03-13 15:14:53 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: one container
1370 2011-03-13 15:15:03 <Diablo-D3> hydrogen exploded and blew the tin shack's roof off
1371 2011-03-13 15:15:14 <ArtForz> yep
1372 2011-03-13 15:15:15 <Diablo-D3> they're already readying a replacement
1373 2011-03-13 15:15:19 <Keefe> the fuel and primary water loop is inside a steel container "vessel", right?
1374 2011-03-13 15:15:32 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: inside the reactor, yes
1375 2011-03-13 15:15:34 <Keefe> then that's in a thick concrete structure
1376 2011-03-13 15:15:37 <Diablo-D3> the reactor itself is significantly shit proof
1377 2011-03-13 15:15:43 <Keefe> then there's a weather cover
1378 2011-03-13 15:15:48 <Diablo-D3> and then the concrete box is significantly shit proof
1379 2011-03-13 15:15:57 <Diablo-D3> and the tin shack is ... well, its not hydrogen proof apparently
1380 2011-03-13 15:16:02 <ArtForz> yep
1381 2011-03-13 15:16:07 <Diablo-D3> it popped like one of Art's psus
1382 2011-03-13 15:16:23 <ArtForz> s far as I can tell from the BS reporting, they flooded the core with borated water, reaction produced shitloads of steam + hydrogen, which they vented into the secondary containment building, and the hydrogen went *boom*
1383 2011-03-13 15:16:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yuy
1384 2011-03-13 15:16:36 <Diablo-D3> yup
1385 2011-03-13 15:16:45 <Keefe> but without really understanding this stuff, the way the news says it, i think most people think the thick concrete structure exploded leaving only the steel pressure container to prevent leakage
1386 2011-03-13 15:16:49 <Diablo-D3> and now they're perminently dampening the reactor with sea water
1387 2011-03-13 15:16:51 <osearth> is it concievable to write a bitcoin client in PHP
1388 2011-03-13 15:17:07 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: no, for the concrete box to explode, you'd need a critical failure in the reactor
1389 2011-03-13 15:17:12 <ArtForz> btw, if you'Re flooding your core with borated water, that usually means it's FUBAR already
1390 2011-03-13 15:17:35 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: thats most likely not even possible if you leave the fuel rods in the FUCK YOU position.
1391 2011-03-13 15:17:40 <ArtForz> yep
1392 2011-03-13 15:17:48 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: all the fuel rods completely retracted correctly
1393 2011-03-13 15:17:56 <ArtForz> you'd have to have a loss of primary cooling *at full output*
1394 2011-03-13 15:17:57 agorist has joined
1395 2011-03-13 15:18:02 <Keefe> yea, i eventually figured this out a half hour ago, but for the last day was having a hard time interpreting the news
1396 2011-03-13 15:18:04 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1397 2011-03-13 15:19:07 <Keefe> though isn't there a concern the quake may have cracked the concrete box a bit?
1398 2011-03-13 15:19:12 <ArtForz> unlikely
1399 2011-03-13 15:19:15 <forrestv> <forrestv> ArtForz, i was asking about a python implementation of bitcoin and someone mentioned that you might have created one
1400 2011-03-13 15:19:15 <forrestv> <forrestv> i found http://pastebin.com/ZSM7iHZw - is that a complete implementation of the protocol or just a dumb client?
1401 2011-03-13 15:19:27 <forrestv> sorry to repost .. but you're talking now q:
1402 2011-03-13 15:19:41 <ArtForz> thats mainly a network protocol parser/builder
1403 2011-03-13 15:19:56 <forrestv> oh
1404 2011-03-13 15:20:35 <ArtForz> all it does is connect to a node, do the initial version exchange and parse/dump messages it receives
1405 2011-03-13 15:20:51 <forrestv> know if anyone's made a complete client? >.<
1406 2011-03-13 15:22:13 <ArtForz> not sure
1407 2011-03-13 15:24:20 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1408 2011-03-13 15:24:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113409 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1502 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 15 hours, 57 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68290.11257393
1409 2011-03-13 15:25:16 <LobsterMan> does slush still take donations from the pool? i don't see it mentioned anywhere
1410 2011-03-13 15:25:33 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1411 2011-03-13 15:25:38 <ArtForz> yes
1412 2011-03-13 15:25:56 <ArtForz> iirc still 2%
1413 2011-03-13 15:25:57 <LobsterMan> do you know how much it is? i don't see an option to change it anymore
1414 2011-03-13 15:25:59 <LobsterMan> ok
1415 2011-03-13 15:26:09 <ArtForz> I think he changed it to fixed 2%
1416 2011-03-13 15:28:25 <slush> LobsterMan: yes, I hide "donations" and set fixed fee to 2%
1417 2011-03-13 15:28:39 <osearth> fair
1418 2011-03-13 15:29:02 <BlueMatt> slush: I thought that was going to be reverted?
1419 2011-03-13 15:29:10 <mizerydearia> http://www.google.com/crisisresponse/japanquake2011.html
1420 2011-03-13 15:29:13 <slush> LobsterMan: and it is mentioned on homepage
1421 2011-03-13 15:29:23 <slush> reverted?
1422 2011-03-13 15:29:42 <BlueMatt> slush: ie we could chose again after you get load under control? or is the load just too expensive
1423 2011-03-13 15:30:49 <slush> BlueMatt: it probably never be for free as on the beginning - a lot of people rely on others that they will pay the service
1424 2011-03-13 15:30:58 <LobsterMan> slush are you sure? i couldn't find it mentioned
1425 2011-03-13 15:31:19 <slush> LobsterMan: on homepage "(50 BTC - 1 BTC fee)"
1426 2011-03-13 15:31:26 <slush> LobsterMan: "The 2% fee is used for keep this service alive. "
1427 2011-03-13 15:31:46 <LobsterMan> ah
1428 2011-03-13 15:31:47 <slush> heh, it should be "used _to_ keep..."
1429 2011-03-13 15:31:48 <BlueMatt> slush: ah, fair enough. I would keep donating anyway, but most wont.
1430 2011-03-13 15:31:57 <LobsterMan> yes it shoul
1431 2011-03-13 15:31:58 <LobsterMan> d
1432 2011-03-13 15:32:00 <LobsterMan> :P
1433 2011-03-13 15:32:52 <Keefe> so this must be more BS: "Although visually spectacular, these explosions are not necessarily dangerous in terms of releasing radioactivity. The buildings are an external shell, with the task of sealing radioactive materials falling to a metal containment vessel constructed inside the concrete shell."
1434 2011-03-13 15:33:19 <BlueMatt> Keefe: no, for now they are fine
1435 2011-03-13 15:33:23 <Keefe> again implying that the concrete shell is what exploded, leaving only the metal reactor pressure vessel
1436 2011-03-13 15:33:44 <BlueMatt> Keefe: they just wonder if there could be a meltdown due to cooling failure going forward, which would be a real problem
1437 2011-03-13 15:33:58 <slush> BlueMatt: I think flat fee is fair, but you still can send few bucks to donation address ;)
1438 2011-03-13 15:34:10 <BlueMatt> slush: I agree, it is
1439 2011-03-13 15:34:45 <osearth> the client has my freebsd box at 1.96 load avg. is there a way to run a client super nice (low pri)
1440 2011-03-13 15:34:50 <slush> BlueMatt: btw if new pool code & push protocol will works fine, then I'll save huge part of needed power, so I probably keep the fee lower
1441 2011-03-13 15:35:10 <BlueMatt> slush: fair enough
1442 2011-03-13 15:35:16 <BlueMatt> osearth: do you have mining enabled?
1443 2011-03-13 15:36:02 <BlueMatt> osearth: called "Generate Bitcoins" in the client
1444 2011-03-13 15:38:44 TD_ has joined
1445 2011-03-13 15:42:22 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1446 2011-03-13 15:42:22 TD_ is now known as TD
1447 2011-03-13 15:43:01 forrest`` has joined
1448 2011-03-13 15:43:43 <agorist> why do all btc addresses start with 1
1449 2011-03-13 15:45:42 <genjix> satoshi's favourite number.
1450 2011-03-13 15:45:45 <BlueMatt> agorist: mostly to allow for easier checking. and testnet addresses start with something else
1451 2011-03-13 15:45:50 <BlueMatt> agorist: dont remember what
1452 2011-03-13 15:46:32 <TD> yes, it's a version/discriminator number
1453 2011-03-13 15:46:33 forrestv has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1454 2011-03-13 15:47:33 Lachesis has joined
1455 2011-03-13 15:53:56 anon111 has joined
1456 2011-03-13 15:57:13 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1457 2011-03-13 15:58:26 AmpEater has joined
1458 2011-03-13 16:06:36 Spenvo has joined
1459 2011-03-13 16:09:59 Syke__ has joined
1460 2011-03-13 16:10:11 aaa3 has joined
1461 2011-03-13 16:10:22 Spenvo_ has joined
1462 2011-03-13 16:10:56 agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1463 2011-03-13 16:12:00 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1464 2011-03-13 16:12:06 Spenvo_ is now known as Spenvo
1465 2011-03-13 16:13:40 Syke_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1466 2011-03-13 16:13:55 gavinandresen has joined
1467 2011-03-13 16:15:51 <gavinandresen> genjix, henux: did you see my post on the forums about proving that "I" own a bitcoin address?
1468 2011-03-13 16:16:32 <gavinandresen> genjix, henux: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4411.msg64632#msg64632
1469 2011-03-13 16:17:18 <gavinandresen> genjix, henux: relevant to the "how to prevent address hijacking" discussion you were having.
1470 2011-03-13 16:19:41 <genjix> thanks gavinandresen. will take a look at that.
1471 2011-03-13 16:20:07 <genjix> what do you think about having it so that you need to sign into the server using OpenID and upload your SSH key manually?
1472 2011-03-13 16:20:10 <genjix> like on github
1473 2011-03-13 16:20:47 <gavinandresen> I haven't really thought about it.
1474 2011-03-13 16:21:42 sabalaba has joined
1475 2011-03-13 16:21:45 defaced has joined
1476 2011-03-13 16:22:02 <gavinandresen> The problem you need to solve is: "Does this bitcoin address REALLY belong to this email address", right?
1477 2011-03-13 16:22:37 <gavinandresen> So just sending an email with a link to verify email->btcaddress mapping changes seems like it would be sufficient.
1478 2011-03-13 16:23:10 <genjix> who said anything about email address?
1479 2011-03-13 16:23:26 <genjix> and no, that's not the problem
1480 2011-03-13 16:23:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: its not really an email, its just a name @ a domain
1481 2011-03-13 16:23:54 <gavinandresen> name@domain looks a lot like an email address to me....
1482 2011-03-13 16:24:01 <genjix> it's more along the lines of: does the person who's updating this ID, really who they claim to be.
1483 2011-03-13 16:24:08 <Aciid> oh great, I installed Stream 2.1. Now I get no OpenCL devices found
1484 2011-03-13 16:24:14 <genjix> atm it uses basic plaintext passphrase
1485 2011-03-13 16:24:23 <genjix> but i'm starting to think it should use SSH keys
1486 2011-03-13 16:24:28 <gavinandresen> Right, and how are you going to prove that if you can't somehow communicate with 'name@domain' ???
1487 2011-03-13 16:24:30 <Aciid> gavinandresen: Diaspora uses the same formatting
1488 2011-03-13 16:24:46 <Aciid> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(software)
1489 2011-03-13 16:25:00 <Aciid> you connect to others using name@host
1490 2011-03-13 16:25:08 <Aciid> since it's decentralized
1491 2011-03-13 16:25:24 <gavinandresen> first-come first-claimed for any particular name@host ?
1492 2011-03-13 16:26:02 <genjix> not sure what you're asking.
1493 2011-03-13 16:26:14 <genjix> you go to domain and register your SSH keys
1494 2011-03-13 16:26:35 <genjix> then you use it to update 'name' on the domain
1495 2011-03-13 16:26:37 <gavinandresen> Can somebody create a gavinandERson@gmail.com to try to impersonate me?
1496 2011-03-13 16:27:01 <gavinandresen> (I suppose they can do that with email anyway....)
1497 2011-03-13 16:27:04 defaced has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1498 2011-03-13 16:27:20 <gavinandresen> "go to domain" ?
1499 2011-03-13 16:28:26 <genjix> no
1500 2011-03-13 16:28:39 <genjix> usernames are case insensitive
1501 2011-03-13 16:28:45 <genjix> (for that reason)
1502 2011-03-13 16:29:02 <gavinandresen> gavinanderson != gavinandresen .....
1503 2011-03-13 16:29:03 <genjix> oh yes they can
1504 2011-03-13 16:29:12 <gavinandresen> genjixx != genjix, etc
1505 2011-03-13 16:29:19 <genjix> yep it's possible.
1506 2011-03-13 16:29:33 <genjix> but you forget. you own the domain too
1507 2011-03-13 16:29:37 <gavinandresen> WIth money involved I get really nervous about that kind of stuff.
1508 2011-03-13 16:29:39 <genjix> (if you wish so)
1509 2011-03-13 16:30:11 <gavinandresen> Support this project! Donate to bitcoin@genjixx.com !
1510 2011-03-13 16:30:13 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1511 2011-03-13 16:30:49 <genjix> :)
1512 2011-03-13 16:31:04 <genjix> i think it's just a convenient way for small amounts
1513 2011-03-13 16:31:25 <genjix> like someone here wants to give me 10 btc... i dont need to open bitcoin
1514 2011-03-13 16:31:33 <genjix> and they can copy paste my address
1515 2011-03-13 16:31:57 <tcatm> keep your donation address in a .txt file on your desktop
1516 2011-03-13 16:32:07 <genjix> and for larger amounts- you should use a bitcoin address and do it in parts (confirming you receive it)
1517 2011-03-13 16:32:12 <gavinandresen> Seems like a standard URL convention would be enough. Maybe https://domain.com/btc_address?username=foo <-- returns bitcoin address for foo@domain.com
1518 2011-03-13 16:32:27 <genjix> gavinandresen: that's how it works
1519 2011-03-13 16:32:43 <genjix> http://fishysnax.com/getaddress/?nickname=genjix
1520 2011-03-13 16:33:14 <gavinandresen> Well then that's easy. Just make it https and btc_address, and don't return JSON (return just the address).
1521 2011-03-13 16:34:02 TheKid has joined
1522 2011-03-13 16:34:57 <genjix> nah i prefer status messages and errors
1523 2011-03-13 16:35:02 <gavinandresen> This might be relevant: http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/
1524 2011-03-13 16:36:09 <gavinandresen> ... because I might want to know your name and address and social security number in addition to your bitcoin address ....
1525 2011-03-13 16:36:13 <gavinandresen> :-)
1526 2011-03-13 16:40:22 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1527 2011-03-13 16:47:16 <Aciid> webfingering could be relevant
1528 2011-03-13 16:47:31 <Aciid> great spread around relevant links, upnp patch got made after I pasted miniupnp lib
1529 2011-03-13 16:48:11 <BlueMatt> Aciid: what about upnp?
1530 2011-03-13 16:48:36 <Aciid> BlueMatt: just saying that it's a good thing that people spread relevant links
1531 2011-03-13 16:48:54 <Aciid> last time had the discussion of the UPNP, and it got made
1532 2011-03-13 16:49:11 <BlueMatt> Aciid: I was never a part of any upnp discussions and I wrote the patch
1533 2011-03-13 16:49:12 <Aciid> BlueMatt: by you, great job =)
1534 2011-03-13 16:49:15 <Aciid> oh
1535 2011-03-13 16:49:24 <BlueMatt> Aciid: I found miniupnp thing because thats what transmission uses and it looked simple
1536 2011-03-13 16:49:30 <BlueMatt> Aciid: sorry to burst your bubble
1537 2011-03-13 16:49:41 <Aciid> no problem, but the timeframe seem'd to fit
1538 2011-03-13 16:49:49 <Aciid> it was a few weeks back when it was discussed
1539 2011-03-13 16:49:54 <gavinandresen> maybe it was the general zeitgeist that entered BlueMatt's consciousness.....
1540 2011-03-13 16:49:59 <gavinandresen> (I'm feeling new-agey today)
1541 2011-03-13 16:50:02 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: probably
1542 2011-03-13 16:50:38 <BlueMatt> after I finish this dam writeup for a project, Im gonna try to get upnp patch to compile on osx
1543 2011-03-13 16:50:50 <BlueMatt> maybe Ill spend some time on windows later in the week but that one sounds really hard
1544 2011-03-13 16:51:38 <genjix> windows?
1545 2011-03-13 16:51:43 <genjix> more like winblows
1546 2011-03-13 16:51:46 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: do you have an Amazon AWS account? Starting with the Windows build environment VM might make it easier
1547 2011-03-13 16:51:54 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: sorry, no I dont
1548 2011-03-13 16:52:07 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: has anyone pulled that down to a vmware or virtualbox image?
1549 2011-03-13 16:52:15 <genjix> did you see my suggestion on packaging bitcoin for linux better?
1550 2011-03-13 16:52:29 <genjix> i can write a script if need be
1551 2011-03-13 16:52:40 <gavinandresen> genjix: me? did you see jgarzik's comments?
1552 2011-03-13 16:52:41 <genjix> but the default layout is unfriendly.
1553 2011-03-13 16:52:51 <genjix> yeah, it's what me an jgarzik agreed on
1554 2011-03-13 16:53:10 <BlueMatt> genjix: you mean 64 and 32 bit stuff with separate tars?
1555 2011-03-13 16:53:13 <genjix> yep
1556 2011-03-13 16:53:24 <genjix> and bitcoind in a seperate directory
1557 2011-03-13 16:53:29 <genjix> bitcoin in top-level
1558 2011-03-13 16:53:39 <genjix> Linux (Recommended)
1559 2011-03-13 16:53:43 <genjix> Linux (64 bit)
1560 2011-03-13 16:53:51 <genjix> [like Ubuntu does]
1561 2011-03-13 16:54:13 <genjix> the alternative is a bash script that auto-selects the correct arch
1562 2011-03-13 16:54:33 <genjix> but jgarzik finds that somewhat unusual, and i have to agree
1563 2011-03-13 16:55:34 <lfm> uname -m
1564 2011-03-13 16:55:35 <BlueMatt> ;;seen tcatm
1565 2011-03-13 16:55:36 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 23 minutes and 38 seconds ago: <tcatm> keep your donation address in a .txt file on your desktop
1566 2011-03-13 16:56:55 Necr0s has joined
1567 2011-03-13 16:57:56 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell tcatm In your commit that removed the reference to IP Address txes in the ui, did you mean to change the default address (Im assuming that is the address of one of the developers)? Also, why was uiproject not update?
1568 2011-03-13 16:57:56 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1569 2011-03-13 16:58:18 <gavinandresen> I'm ok with re-organizing. I've been thinking that maybe a top-level build/ directory with the makefile.* and build-scripts might be a good idea (next release I want to automate all the builds more)
1570 2011-03-13 16:59:02 <genjix> cool
1571 2011-03-13 16:59:15 <BlueMatt> I think that is a very good idea
1572 2011-03-13 16:59:16 <genjix> you mean jam, cmake or autoconf, right?
1573 2011-03-13 16:59:35 <genjix> maybe even move all the sources to src/ too :)
1574 2011-03-13 17:00:06 <gavinandresen> Yeah, I was looking at what other projects did-- seemed to be split between top-level src/ and top-level "all the .c/h/cpp" files like we have now
1575 2011-03-13 17:00:23 <gavinandresen> I like build/ src/ doc/ lib/ arrangement myself
1576 2011-03-13 17:00:24 <genjix> standard is to put it in src/
1577 2011-03-13 17:00:37 <lfm> um source is in src now in tar
1578 2011-03-13 17:00:40 <genjix> you can message GNU and they'll help you out.
1579 2011-03-13 17:00:59 <genjix> (if you have questions about the standard)
1580 2011-03-13 17:01:08 <JunK-Y> my bitcoin.exe refuses to start, ive copied my backup dir to another machine and it still refuses to start.
1581 2011-03-13 17:01:17 <JunK-Y> i had like 350 BTC, what can I do?
1582 2011-03-13 17:01:38 <gavinandresen> JunK-Y: backup your wallet.dat file first.
1583 2011-03-13 17:01:42 semyazza has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1584 2011-03-13 17:01:47 <lfm> JunK-Y: start it from a cmd window and see if there are any messages, also check debug.log for error messages
1585 2011-03-13 17:02:17 <gavinandresen> JunK-Y: then after you double-check and make sure you backed it up, remove blk*.dat and the log/ directory from your bitcoin directory. What OS are you on?
1586 2011-03-13 17:02:39 <lfm> he said .exe so I'd assum mswin
1587 2011-03-13 17:03:22 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I changed the address as we don't know who's address that is (probably satoshi's) and to prevent people from accidently sending money there
1588 2011-03-13 17:03:36 <gavinandresen> Right! then your bitcoin directory is %APPDATA%/Bitcoin, and I forget where %APPDATA% is (it is different places XP versus WIndows 7, if I remember)
1589 2011-03-13 17:04:02 <TheKid> just winkey
1590 2011-03-13 17:04:15 <TheKid> winkey+r "%appdata%
1591 2011-03-13 17:04:19 <lfm> TheKid: winkey is not here
1592 2011-03-13 17:04:29 <gavinandresen> Anyway, removing the blk*.dat and log/* files (and maybe addr.dat) tends to fix bitcoin-won't-start problems; they're the files that are written most and seem to get corrupted every once in a while.
1593 2011-03-13 17:04:32 <TheKid> winkey as in the windows key
1594 2011-03-13 17:04:36 <BlueMatt> tcatm: so you changed it to an address that no one controls? Why not just gavin's or yours. You did write the software
1595 2011-03-13 17:04:48 <tcatm> it's now an invalid address
1596 2011-03-13 17:04:51 <JunK-Y> in my log, i see http://pastebin.com/jC5NUtAL
1597 2011-03-13 17:04:57 <JunK-Y> gavinandresen: i did for sure.
1598 2011-03-13 17:05:05 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ah
1599 2011-03-13 17:05:12 <BlueMatt> tcatm: why did you not update uiproject...
1600 2011-03-13 17:05:45 <tcatm> because the wx-tool fscked up the file everytime I tried to save it causing git to remove all lines and re-add them
1601 2011-03-13 17:05:58 <gavinandresen> JunK-Y: the block index file it is trying to load is blkindex.dat in your \Users\PLAY\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin folder
1602 2011-03-13 17:06:16 <gavinandresen> It is safe to delete that-- bitcoin will re-create. You should delete blk0001.dat, too
1603 2011-03-13 17:06:20 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ah. Well it does make it hard to update the ui...
1604 2011-03-13 17:06:33 <JunK-Y> the app started when i deleted blk*.dat
1605 2011-03-13 17:06:39 <lfm> junk-y did you wait for the block chain to download?
1606 2011-03-13 17:06:53 <JunK-Y> but the balance is at 0 now
1607 2011-03-13 17:06:55 <tcatm> how does one update the ui correctly without those problems with git?
1608 2011-03-13 17:07:00 <lfm> junk-y did you wait for the block chain to download?
1609 2011-03-13 17:07:16 <BlueMatt> tcatm: I dont know, but when I messed with uiproject it didnt have a problem for me
1610 2011-03-13 17:07:23 <JunK-Y> wait, its only at block 1000, its like it started from 0 again
1611 2011-03-13 17:07:25 anon111 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1612 2011-03-13 17:07:52 <gavinandresen> JunK-Y: yup, the blk*.dat files contain the block chain. You have to download it again.
1613 2011-03-13 17:08:03 <lfm> JunK-Y: ya if you deleted the block chain files it will take a while to get all the blocks and recalc your balance
1614 2011-03-13 17:08:04 <JunK-Y> my wallet id is different now
1615 2011-03-13 17:08:09 <lfm> ;;bc,blcoks
1616 2011-03-13 17:08:09 <gribble> Error: "bc,blcoks" is not a valid command.
1617 2011-03-13 17:08:15 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
1618 2011-03-13 17:08:16 <gribble> 113416
1619 2011-03-13 17:08:45 <gavinandresen> JunK-Y: your bitcoin balance will come back when the blocks that contain your transactions are downloaded. And having a different receiving address is normal.
1620 2011-03-13 17:08:45 <tcatm> BlueMatt: oh, looks like wxformbuilder is supposed to create uibase.* somehow
1621 2011-03-13 17:08:53 <JunK-Y> my wallet was: 13cCjzd9BqAWatUfdyb2RFsSYBuFB9JvQy and now its 1CydT7ejjrzELkprjJp6pCZrcN27WuoFdF
1622 2011-03-13 17:09:00 <JunK-Y> is it normal?
1623 2011-03-13 17:09:10 <lfm> ya
1624 2011-03-13 17:09:27 <BlueMatt> tcatm: there is a button in the ui to create that stuff
1625 2011-03-13 17:09:31 <lfm> JunK-Y: that address will change for lots of reasons
1626 2011-03-13 17:09:52 <BlueMatt> tcatm: hence the huge do not edit... warnings in uibase.*
1627 2011-03-13 17:09:53 <JunK-Y> perfect, i'll wait to be back at 113416
1628 2011-03-13 17:10:08 <lfm> JunK-Y: cool
1629 2011-03-13 17:10:16 <JunK-Y> hopefully, my balance will be back
1630 2011-03-13 17:11:40 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I'll try to make a correct patch.
1631 2011-03-13 17:11:46 <BlueMatt> tcatm: thanks
1632 2011-03-13 17:12:09 <tcatm> were you going to make changes to the UI?
1633 2011-03-13 17:12:55 <BlueMatt> tcatm: was adding the copyright notice in the about box, ended up manually doing it in both uiproject and uibase.* because otherwise I undid you commit
1634 2011-03-13 17:13:28 <tcatm> this wxformbuilder is annoying
1635 2011-03-13 17:13:36 <BlueMatt> tcatm: I agree
1636 2011-03-13 17:14:21 Cusipzzz has joined
1637 2011-03-13 17:16:59 emanon has joined
1638 2011-03-13 17:17:10 emanon is now known as eao
1639 2011-03-13 17:18:52 justmoon has joined
1640 2011-03-13 17:21:36 amiller has joined
1641 2011-03-13 17:26:24 agorist has joined
1642 2011-03-13 17:27:37 aaa3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1643 2011-03-13 17:29:22 <tcatm> 3 files changed, 6586 insertions(+), 6424 deletions(-)
1644 2011-03-13 17:29:32 <tcatm> just to remove those two fields!
1645 2011-03-13 17:29:37 <BlueMatt> ...wow
1646 2011-03-13 17:30:22 <tcatm> 6498 lines of xml generate 1458 lines of cpp/h
1647 2011-03-13 17:30:37 <BlueMatt> that seems wrong
1648 2011-03-13 17:30:41 <tcatm> yep
1649 2011-03-13 17:30:42 <lfm> so it osunds like it actually got bigger after removing fields
1650 2011-03-13 17:31:08 <tcatm> yeah, wxformbuilder probably decided to change the whole uiproject xml
1651 2011-03-13 17:31:35 <lfm> maybe saved some undelete data
1652 2011-03-13 17:32:16 <gavinandresen> Is anybody using the -limitfreerelay switch? I'm thinking of changing it from a boolean to an integer, but am wondering how much pain that will cause
1653 2011-03-13 17:32:48 <tcatm> I didn't even know that switch existed.
1654 2011-03-13 17:32:50 <lfm> never even heard of that switch
1655 2011-03-13 17:33:00 <BlueMatt> me three
1656 2011-03-13 17:33:07 <gavinandresen> That's kind of what I figured...
1657 2011-03-13 17:33:33 <lfm> if you change it you will probably hear
1658 2011-03-13 17:33:45 <blarzong> sharpenhoff
1659 2011-03-13 17:33:58 <BlueMatt> if that has to do with rules for relaying txes, ask luke-jr. I believe he messes with that stuff a lot on his miners
1660 2011-03-13 17:34:08 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1661 2011-03-13 17:35:55 <tcatm> 3 files changed, 493 insertions(+), 331 deletions(-)
1662 2011-03-13 17:35:57 <tcatm> looks better
1663 2011-03-13 17:36:10 <BlueMatt> sounds about right
1664 2011-03-13 17:37:41 <CIA-95> bitcoin: tcatm master * rf4f2987 / (uibase.cpp uibase.h uiproject.fbp): remove from/message field from uiproject - http://bit.ly/i17Rm6
1665 2011-03-13 17:37:54 <BlueMatt> thanks
1666 2011-03-13 17:38:21 <tcatm> looks like uiproject needs dos encoding (recode latin1..dos fixed it)
1667 2011-03-13 17:40:16 <lfm> does that work right with the existing language files then?
1668 2011-03-13 17:40:32 <tcatm> compiles on linux at least
1669 2011-03-13 17:40:55 AmpEater has joined
1670 2011-03-13 17:45:13 osearth_ has joined
1671 2011-03-13 17:46:33 Jeroenz0r_ has joined
1672 2011-03-13 17:47:17 osearth has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1673 2011-03-13 17:48:29 Jeroenz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1674 2011-03-13 17:48:33 Jeroenz0r_ is now known as Jeroenz0r
1675 2011-03-13 17:48:51 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
1676 2011-03-13 17:50:22 AmpEater has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1677 2011-03-13 17:51:07 bk128 has joined
1678 2011-03-13 17:52:59 <gavinandresen> tcatm, ArtForz, TD : pull request to rate-limit free transactions by default: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/117
1679 2011-03-13 17:53:56 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: sounds like a good idea to me
1680 2011-03-13 17:54:33 <justmoon> when you guys say you're removing two fields are you talking about the From and Message fields in the Send Coins dialog?
1681 2011-03-13 17:54:49 <BlueMatt> justmoon: yes that is what he was referring to
1682 2011-03-13 17:55:02 <BlueMatt> justmoon: because he removed the stuff about ip address txes in the ui
1683 2011-03-13 17:55:30 <justmoon> guess I have to tell our designer to change the animation now :D
1684 2011-03-13 17:55:48 <BlueMatt> justmoon: never use ip address txes, they are insecure
1685 2011-03-13 17:56:21 henux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1686 2011-03-13 17:56:40 <justmoon> I know the fields were only there for ip txes, but I've got an idea for how we could implement messaging, which will probably be my next project after the movie
1687 2011-03-13 17:56:57 <tcatm> btw, there's a hidden "Transaction type" filed in uiproject's senddialog
1688 2011-03-13 17:56:58 <justmoon> so I kinda wanted the functionality in the movie and the fact that they were in the interface was perfect cover
1689 2011-03-13 17:57:25 osearth has joined
1690 2011-03-13 17:58:35 <TD> gavinandresen: maybe elaborate more in the comments what that code achieves?
1691 2011-03-13 17:58:36 <TD> huh
1692 2011-03-13 17:58:45 <TD> current time in seconds since the epoch now starts with 13 instead of 12
1693 2011-03-13 17:58:54 <TD> looks like that happened some time this morning
1694 2011-03-13 17:59:17 <blarzong> olo
1695 2011-03-13 17:59:18 <BlueMatt> dam I missed the switchover, that should have been a holiday
1696 2011-03-13 17:59:20 <blarzong> hello!
1697 2011-03-13 17:59:42 <tcatm> holiday? holisecond...
1698 2011-03-13 17:59:58 <BlueMatt> well you can celebrate the entire day
1699 2011-03-13 18:00:15 osearth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1700 2011-03-13 18:00:26 <lfm> $ date +%s
1701 2011-03-13 18:00:27 <lfm> 1300039206
1702 2011-03-13 18:00:40 <genjix> oh nice
1703 2011-03-13 18:00:48 <genjix> happy unix epoch
1704 2011-03-13 18:01:26 <lfm> 12 hours ago
1705 2011-03-13 18:02:11 <tcatm> gavinandresen: patch looks good
1706 2011-03-13 18:02:24 <TD> gavinandresen: what is the thread safety of that function btw?
1707 2011-03-13 18:02:36 <TD> gavinandresen: i see it locks cs_mapTransactions when actually adding to the memory pool
1708 2011-03-13 18:02:58 Jeroenz0r has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1709 2011-03-13 18:03:16 <JunK-Y> after my restore: im now at 98000 blocks and the balance is still 0, but ive got transactions before that block, is that still normal?
1710 2011-03-13 18:03:32 <BlueMatt> JunK-Y: did you run with -rescan?
1711 2011-03-13 18:03:56 <JunK-Y> no, i simply delete blk*.dat and restart bitcoin
1712 2011-03-13 18:04:01 <gavinandresen> TD: good question.... network message processing is single-threaded, so transactions from there should be OK
1713 2011-03-13 18:04:09 <TD> ok
1714 2011-03-13 18:04:21 <BlueMatt> JunK-Y: try opening it with -rescan
1715 2011-03-13 18:04:32 <gavinandresen> TD: if we get submit-a-transaction from RPC... then that might be an issue
1716 2011-03-13 18:04:48 <TD> what other threads can call this? for my own interest
1717 2011-03-13 18:05:07 <TD> it just sets off my alarm bells when i see a function locking things, and then also using global variables unlocked
1718 2011-03-13 18:05:51 <gavinandresen> TD: lets see, RCP send methods will create a transaction, so that's another thread
1719 2011-03-13 18:06:35 <gavinandresen> TD: I don't think coinbase transactions are ever in the memory pool, so miner threads shouldn't ever call that code
1720 2011-03-13 18:06:39 <JunK-Y> BlueMatt: blocks are still increasing, but balance is still at zero
1721 2011-03-13 18:07:01 <TD> hrmm
1722 2011-03-13 18:07:03 <BlueMatt> JunK-Y: wait did you move your wallet.dat ?
1723 2011-03-13 18:07:19 <BlueMatt> JunK-Y: can we continue on #bitcoin-discussion?
1724 2011-03-13 18:07:27 <TD> gavinandresen: potentially if there were a large number of free transactions that were orphaned, when their dependency is received all of the orphan transactions will count as received simultaneousl
1725 2011-03-13 18:07:34 <JunK-Y> BlueMatt: sure, lets move there
1726 2011-03-13 18:07:36 <TD> not sure if we care about that
1727 2011-03-13 18:07:38 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: IMO, BlueMatt's log timestamp pull request supercedes mine. I closed my pull request several days ago. It is turned off by default, to address any privacy concerns about this frequently-requested feature.
1728 2011-03-13 18:08:50 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ok, I don't have strong opinions about log timestamping.
1729 2011-03-13 18:10:23 <BlueMatt> are timestamps really a big security concern?
1730 2011-03-13 18:10:41 <ArtForz> imo, no
1731 2011-03-13 18:10:50 <gavinandresen> privacy concern-- they may make it easier for somebody to figure out which node generated a transaction
1732 2011-03-13 18:11:22 <TD> we're talking about debug.log here?
1733 2011-03-13 18:11:26 <jgarzik> yes
1734 2011-03-13 18:11:28 <ArtForz> oh, but second-precision timestamps dont help much for that
1735 2011-03-13 18:12:04 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ah, but people do that stuff all the time already, so?
1736 2011-03-13 18:12:08 <TD> if you can access debug.log you can probably access the wallet
1737 2011-03-13 18:12:12 <ArtForz> I was thinking "someone on the local machine could read your debug log and infer... something... from the timestamps"... but theyn they probably also have read acess to your wallet, so ... uh
1738 2011-03-13 18:12:16 <Kiba`> hmm
1739 2011-03-13 18:12:17 <TD> so .... privacy concerns seem kind of moot in that case
1740 2011-03-13 18:12:22 <jgarzik> and the patch is indeed second precision
1741 2011-03-13 18:12:27 <jgarzik> not sub-second
1742 2011-03-13 18:12:30 <Kiba`> remember people say open source can't do any innovation whatsoever?
1743 2011-03-13 18:12:32 towerX is now known as tower
1744 2011-03-13 18:12:32 <Kiba`> bitcoin can!
1745 2011-03-13 18:12:37 <Kiba`> and it's not even a startup
1746 2011-03-13 18:12:53 <jgarzik> (though my patch -- now deleted -- included tv.tv_usec, unlike BlueMatt's)
1747 2011-03-13 18:13:44 <gavinandresen> Concern was from satoshi... I shouldn't try to read his mind, but I THINK what he was thinking is somebody subpoena's N bitcoin services for their debug.logs to try to figure out where transactions were originating
1748 2011-03-13 18:14:20 <gavinandresen> (if you know something about bitcoin network topology maybe there's some sophisticated attack yada yada... I don't think it is a real-world issue, but I'm not very paranoid)
1749 2011-03-13 18:14:28 <TD> gavinandresen: anyway, the patch looks ok to me, but i'd be tempted to put more of an elaboration in the comments and introduce a lock for the static variables, just in case in future the way the threading changes, eg to improve network performance
1750 2011-03-13 18:15:01 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ah, well sure then off by default is fine. Its a debug log anyway, if you are gonna debug you probably know something
1751 2011-03-13 18:16:56 <gavinandresen> TD: I don't think lock for static vars is necessary, even in the multithreading case; worst case would be dFreeCount undercounts free transactions (or nLockTime gets set to GetTime() too often), neither of which is really a problem
1752 2011-03-13 18:19:19 <blarzong> im bak
1753 2011-03-13 18:20:05 <ArtForz> limitfreerelay looks good
1754 2011-03-13 18:20:38 <TD> the problem is the code looks very dangerous right now. i'm not at all convinced it's safe to free-thread that code. it relies on assumptions about what certain operations might compile down to, what kind of hardware you run on and so on. it's not a performance issue to lock there so we might as well do it on the grounds that it's better safe than sorry.
1755 2011-03-13 18:21:13 <TD> at the very least, code which uses lock-free data structures would need a big comment. i mean, i agree right now it's probably safe, but i can imagine the code changing in future so it's not safe.
1756 2011-03-13 18:21:58 Zarutian has joined
1757 2011-03-13 18:22:04 <jgarzik> double is 64 bits on 32-bit machines, which is not necessarily automatically updated in a free-threaded environment
1758 2011-03-13 18:22:11 <jgarzik> s/automatically/atomically/
1759 2011-03-13 18:22:21 <TD> indeed
1760 2011-03-13 18:22:39 <ArtForz> which 32 bit machines?
1761 2011-03-13 18:22:45 <theorbtwo> Re what I was talking about some time ago, BTW, it appears that I'm mining an average of about 1/3rd bitcoin / day, so I've set my threshhold to .3 for now.
1762 2011-03-13 18:22:51 <jgarzik> ArtForz: all bitcoin on windows is built 32-bit
1763 2011-03-13 18:22:56 <ArtForz> on x86 it's atomic
1764 2011-03-13 18:24:47 <ArtForz> well, actually on newer archs it might not be if you're crossing cachelines
1765 2011-03-13 18:25:19 <gavinandresen> ... and now I'm thinking TD is right, a lock around that code is probably a very good idea...
1766 2011-03-13 18:25:39 <ArtForz> yeah, better play it safe
1767 2011-03-13 18:25:50 Bosma has joined
1768 2011-03-13 18:25:51 <ArtForz> and it's not like we're calling that code million times a second
1769 2011-03-13 18:25:52 <theorbtwo> It occours to me that one of the unfortunate things about the bitcoin design is that software bugs can cause money to vanish from the economy forever, fairly easily.
1770 2011-03-13 18:26:02 <TD> apparently it depends on the alignment and that in turn depends on what the compiler chooses to do
1771 2011-03-13 18:26:05 <TD> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1292786/is-updating-double-operation-atomic
1772 2011-03-13 18:26:29 <TD> obviously if you use interlocked increments/decrements then it's always atomic. however the code as written won't do that
1773 2011-03-13 18:26:34 <TD> first rule of threading: when in doubt, lock
1774 2011-03-13 18:26:50 <jgarzik> I wish bitcoin locked data, rather than code
1775 2011-03-13 18:26:57 <jgarzik> paths
1776 2011-03-13 18:27:10 <TD> it does lock data?
1777 2011-03-13 18:27:33 <TD> that function uses cs_mapTransactions
1778 2011-03-13 18:27:51 * jgarzik was speaking generally, about locking styles
1779 2011-03-13 18:28:03 Spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1780 2011-03-13 18:28:08 <jgarzik> not relevant to current discussion
1781 2011-03-13 18:28:11 <ArtForz> yep, what I said
1782 2011-03-13 18:28:33 <TD> ok
1783 2011-03-13 18:28:40 <ArtForz> usually even unaligned double updates are atomic, as long as you don't cross cachelines, then all bets are off
1784 2011-03-13 18:29:31 Spenvo has joined
1785 2011-03-13 18:29:59 <jgarzik> genjix, gavinandresen: on the name-lookups-for-bitcoin-addresse thing: there is a privacy issue in that you cause a direct payer->payee Internet connection, at the moment of payment, if you need to perform a symbol-to-BTC-addr lookup at the moment of payment.
1786 2011-03-13 18:30:10 <jgarzik> if the payee is running their own lookup server
1787 2011-03-13 18:30:16 <jgarzik> for their own address
1788 2011-03-13 18:30:27 <gavinandresen> ... like DNS leaking with tor...
1789 2011-03-13 18:31:16 <genjix> the server doesn't pull addresses when somebody does a name lookup
1790 2011-03-13 18:31:26 <genjix> the client pushes addresses to the server.
1791 2011-03-13 18:33:44 <theorbtwo> You can always tell the address of the other end with any TCP or UDP data transfer.
1792 2011-03-13 18:34:12 <theorbtwo> (Well, unless the other end deliberately hides it, in which case, replies can't get back to him.)
1793 2011-03-13 18:35:09 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1794 2011-03-13 18:35:39 <jgarzik> genjix: your stuff contacts a remote server
1795 2011-03-13 18:35:56 <jgarzik> genjix: if it were simply a -local- feature, where nicknames were stored in the local wallet, that makes sense
1796 2011-03-13 18:36:06 <jgarzik> a local address book, one might call it :)
1797 2011-03-13 18:36:14 <theorbtwo> You could perminately publish name -> address mappings by putting the data into the block chain.
1798 2011-03-13 18:36:37 subpar has joined
1799 2011-03-13 18:36:37 subpar has quit (Changing host)
1800 2011-03-13 18:36:37 subpar has joined
1801 2011-03-13 18:37:48 <blarzong> j'agoat
1802 2011-03-13 18:37:59 <genjix> you're saying that if i decide to update my address at the moment I get paid, then there's an issue
1803 2011-03-13 18:38:00 <theorbtwo> That makes the data pushed everywhere (so it's anonymouns who you are looking up), and lookups free.
1804 2011-03-13 18:38:18 <genjix> theorbtwo: except now you cannot change your name or address
1805 2011-03-13 18:38:30 <jgarzik> theorbtwo: true, however that means anyone can stomp 'jgarzik'
1806 2011-03-13 18:38:31 <genjix> no password recovery either/
1807 2011-03-13 18:39:38 <gavinandresen> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/117/files : I wrapped the rate-limiting code in a CRITICAL_BLOCK and expanded the comments a bit
1808 2011-03-13 18:40:12 <gavinandresen> (I'm running now with -limitfreerelay=1 to test)
1809 2011-03-13 18:40:14 <jgarzik> genjix: ok, who calls ::FetchAddress?
1810 2011-03-13 18:40:38 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1811 2011-03-13 18:41:06 <genjix> the client _before_ giving out their handle
1812 2011-03-13 18:42:32 <jgarzik> genjix: answer: CollectAddress(). who calls CollectAddress()? answer: rpc_send, when someone is sending money to jgarzik@gmail.com.
1813 2011-03-13 18:42:38 <jgarzik> FetchAddress makes an HTTP call
1814 2011-03-13 18:42:43 <TD> gavinandresen: lgtm
1815 2011-03-13 18:42:52 <jgarzik> therefore, at the moment you are sending money, you make a remote HTTP call
1816 2011-03-13 18:43:04 <jgarzik> therefore, you are telling the remote server operator who you are
1817 2011-03-13 18:43:11 <TD> jgarzik: people who care about not having their IP traced can just use Tor
1818 2011-03-13 18:43:23 <TD> the tor guys have thought through that a lot deeper than anyone in the bitcoin community will
1819 2011-03-13 18:43:49 <jgarzik> TD: it's a huge privacy hole, if it becomes normal for payer/payee to make direct internet connections with each other
1820 2011-03-13 18:43:56 <jgarzik> I don't want that to become the common case for bitcoin
1821 2011-03-13 18:44:00 <TD> why not ?
1822 2011-03-13 18:44:07 <TD> I mean you probably just visited their website
1823 2011-03-13 18:44:08 <genjix> ic
1824 2011-03-13 18:44:21 <jgarzik> read all the reasons we disabled IP transactions
1825 2011-03-13 18:44:26 <genjix> he does kinda have a point.
1826 2011-03-13 18:44:42 <TD> are those reasons documented anywhere?
1827 2011-03-13 18:44:48 <jgarzik> forums
1828 2011-03-13 18:45:03 <TD> that's what i thought
1829 2011-03-13 18:46:01 <TD> peoples IP addresses leak all the time. if you care about privacy that much you need an end-to-end solution, not app-specific changes
1830 2011-03-13 18:46:25 <TD> otherwise you'll think you're private because you're paying with bitcoin, but then web server logs will give you away. or the X-Originating-IP header in the email you sent. etc.
1831 2011-03-13 18:47:08 <jgarzik> bitcoin payment system does not deal at all with web servers or X-Originating-IP header
1832 2011-03-13 18:47:24 <jgarzik> that's a layer on top of the currency itself
1833 2011-03-13 18:47:44 <jgarzik> we should not build a privacy-revealing technology directly into the currency management software itself
1834 2011-03-13 18:47:47 jostmey__ has joined
1835 2011-03-13 18:47:50 tower has joined
1836 2011-03-13 18:48:15 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1837 2011-03-13 18:49:10 <genjix> so what if bitcoin uses DNS itself directly for address lookups?
1838 2011-03-13 18:49:15 <TD> arguably email address -> bitcoin address is a layer on top as well then
1839 2011-03-13 18:49:20 <jgarzik> genjix: same issues, unfortunately
1840 2011-03-13 18:49:31 <genjix> but DNS is federated, no?
1841 2011-03-13 18:49:40 <jgarzik> genjix: which makes my suggestion a bit of a dumb idea too :)
1842 2011-03-13 18:49:48 <theorbtwo> Hm. I'm terribly aware that I'm coming into the middle of this conversation, but what problem, exactly, is supposed to be solved here?
1843 2011-03-13 18:50:09 <genjix> theorbtwo: the fact that the server knows whos paying to me.
1844 2011-03-13 18:50:10 <jgarzik> genjix: you can control the authoritative server serving data for your domain
1845 2011-03-13 18:50:23 <jgarzik> genjix: with small amount cache refresh times, you'll see most payments
1846 2011-03-13 18:50:25 tower is now known as towerX
1847 2011-03-13 18:50:32 <theorbtwo> Wouldn't a bitcoin:address/amount psudo-url scheme more or less solve the issue?
1848 2011-03-13 18:50:39 <TD> i mean, email addresses are usually used to send email and nearly all providers embed origin IP into sent email. so if you have an email from an address you probably have an IP anyway. and if you never talked with that email address why are you trying to send money?
1849 2011-03-13 18:50:43 <theorbtwo> Meaning "please send N BTC to this address".
1850 2011-03-13 18:50:47 <jgarzik> genjix: HTTP and DNS are no different in this regard. They are both remote servers, serving content at the time of bitcoin payment.
1851 2011-03-13 18:50:52 <TD> if it's a donations dropbox there's not much point in using email identifiers over regular addresses
1852 2011-03-13 18:50:54 <genjix> TD: well google stopped that
1853 2011-03-13 18:51:00 <TD> only in some cases
1854 2011-03-13 18:51:00 <genjix> and my email doesn't do that
1855 2011-03-13 18:51:12 <genjix> jgarzik: how about a custom federated protocol then?
1856 2011-03-13 18:51:17 <TD> if you send via SMTP your ip address is still embedded in outbound mail
1857 2011-03-13 18:51:19 <genjix> bounces records around each other
1858 2011-03-13 18:51:20 <TD> even with gmail
1859 2011-03-13 18:51:20 Bosma has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1860 2011-03-13 18:51:57 <genjix> this time you don't lookup @foo.org
1861 2011-03-13 18:52:02 <genjix> but foo.org is the authority
1862 2011-03-13 18:52:15 d4de has joined
1863 2011-03-13 18:52:18 bitcoiner has joined
1864 2011-03-13 18:52:29 <genjix> i.e i push a new address to foo.org, foo.org pushes the new address to the federation.
1865 2011-03-13 18:52:59 <jgarzik> publish a directory in the block chain, and make it cost 0.02 BTC to accept such records
1866 2011-03-13 18:53:01 * jgarzik runs
1867 2011-03-13 18:53:10 Bosma has joined
1868 2011-03-13 18:53:37 <nanotube> jgarzik: hah
1869 2011-03-13 18:53:56 <genjix> i like the idea of federation.
1870 2011-03-13 18:54:08 <nanotube> theorbtwo: i think the problem they're trying to solve is "zomg bitcoin addresses look too scary to grandma maple syrup"
1871 2011-03-13 18:54:10 <jgarzik> after all, you can prove you own the address part of a 'name=address' scheme. of course, many people can reuse 'name'.
1872 2011-03-13 18:54:15 defaced has joined
1873 2011-03-13 18:54:20 <genjix> there are lookup servers
1874 2011-03-13 18:54:25 <jgarzik> nanotube: which is, indeed, a problem. I agree with genjix there.
1875 2011-03-13 18:54:29 <genjix> and there are address databses.
1876 2011-03-13 18:54:46 <nanotube> jgarzik: i think email addresses look too scary to said grandma as well.
1877 2011-03-13 18:54:48 <TD> i think longer term addresses will become less and less visible. websites will use links understood by browsers/browser extensions.
1878 2011-03-13 18:54:51 <nanotube> that's why copy paste was invented.
1879 2011-03-13 18:55:00 <nanotube> and also grandma would be using something like mybitcoin anyway.
1880 2011-03-13 18:55:04 <TD> email providers can just embed a bitcoin address in outbound emails automatically
1881 2011-03-13 18:55:05 <nanotube> so imho, not a problem.
1882 2011-03-13 18:55:09 <jgarzik> mybitcoin doesn't hide bitcoin addresses
1883 2011-03-13 18:55:10 <genjix> nanotube: i've done tests with people and bitcoin is confusing.
1884 2011-03-13 18:55:17 <nanotube> jgarzik: but it /can/
1885 2011-03-13 18:55:26 <nanotube> jgarzik: as can any other ewallet provider, if they so choose.
1886 2011-03-13 18:55:29 <jgarzik> nanotube: how? you need bitcoin addresses to do anything useful
1887 2011-03-13 18:55:33 <genjix> 1st thing is main website has that security warning... was a big thing many people latch onto.
1888 2011-03-13 18:55:52 <genjix> 2. addresses 3. all the different binaries in bitcoin tar
1889 2011-03-13 18:55:56 <nanotube> hand out "user@mybitcoin.com" nicks to all accounts, and they can transfer funds between each other by email address.
1890 2011-03-13 18:56:07 <jgarzik> I bet we could fund a bounty for a real SSL cert for Sirius
1891 2011-03-13 18:56:11 <genjix> 4. block chain (ui has no feedback on first time run or initialising)
1892 2011-03-13 18:56:11 <jgarzik> shouldn't be hard
1893 2011-03-13 18:56:12 <TD> genjix: just build or leverage some social network
1894 2011-03-13 18:56:25 <TD> genjix: allow people to associate themselves with a bitcoin:abc link
1895 2011-03-13 18:56:37 <TD> genjix: write browser extensions, fix up client downloads to automatically install these extensions
1896 2011-03-13 18:56:38 <TD> done
1897 2011-03-13 18:56:40 <nanotube> genjix: you do tests with people, you'll also find an email client and a web browser are confusing. so what...
1898 2011-03-13 18:56:59 <TD> jgarzik: startssl offer them free. no bounty needed, just some love from the server admins.
1899 2011-03-13 18:57:02 * TD used startssl before
1900 2011-03-13 18:57:29 <theorbtwo> nanotube: Gamma doesn't have to see them with my suggestion. She clicks the link, and a dialog box pops up that says "did you really just mean to send somebody 27 bitcoin?".
1901 2011-03-13 18:57:39 <nanotube> theorbtwo: right
1902 2011-03-13 18:58:17 <nanotube> theorbtwo: basically, a uri standard, and/or just good old copy/paste, make the problem go away... imho.
1903 2011-03-13 18:58:23 <jgarzik> yep
1904 2011-03-13 18:58:24 <theorbtwo> Likewise, you can put your bitcoin address in your online address card file that I should remember the name of.
1905 2011-03-13 18:58:28 <nanotube> nobody has to type the addresses manually.
1906 2011-03-13 18:58:29 <theorbtwo> ...or embed them in QR codes.
1907 2011-03-13 18:58:32 <gavinandresen> We saw bitcoin address confusion in this chat channel just a little while ago-- "why did my wallet address change...."
1908 2011-03-13 18:58:32 <genjix> uri works for you?
1909 2011-03-13 18:58:54 <genjix> i've never had a working uri in my life
1910 2011-03-13 18:58:55 <nanotube> gavinandresen: well, address changing is a completely separate problem.
1911 2011-03-13 18:58:57 <genjix> outside http
1912 2011-03-13 18:58:59 <genjix> ftp
1913 2011-03-13 18:59:04 <genjix> (inside browser)
1914 2011-03-13 18:59:05 <jgarzik> bitcoin:1LGpwDU5djqsR1X14Tcass3y9fULTzxJq3 working in browser is ideal
1915 2011-03-13 18:59:14 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I believe he had changed the default one from the address book
1916 2011-03-13 18:59:15 <jgarzik> mailto: works
1917 2011-03-13 18:59:20 <gavinandresen> nanotube: I think it is related-- I want to tell people "pay gavin@acm.org", not "pay this address I just generated"
1918 2011-03-13 18:59:21 <genjix> not for me.
1919 2011-03-13 18:59:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: also agreed
1920 2011-03-13 18:59:44 <nanotube> gavinandresen: imho, the 'your address' field can just go away from the client, so people do not develop a misconception that they only have "one address"
1921 2011-03-13 18:59:55 <nanotube> it is a useless field anyway.
1922 2011-03-13 19:00:16 <genjix> that's a cool idea.
1923 2011-03-13 19:00:23 <nanotube> jgarzik: right - ubuntu puts out an extension for firefox that accepts apt:// addresses
1924 2011-03-13 19:00:27 <genjix> replace it with generate receiving address, right?
1925 2011-03-13 19:00:28 <nanotube> should be trivial to make the same thing for bitcoin://
1926 2011-03-13 19:00:34 <luke-jr> xelister: USA is the least-bad of all modern countries
1927 2011-03-13 19:01:07 <nanotube> genjix: yes, something like that. basically, anything that doesn't scream "this is your one and only bitcoin address" like the current field does. :)
1928 2011-03-13 19:01:12 <genjix> nanotube: you mean replace it with a button that says [Receive bitcoins] and then a window pops up with your address
1929 2011-03-13 19:01:29 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: trying to start a flame war? please dont use -dev
1930 2011-03-13 19:01:48 <genjix> nanotube: that's a great idea :p
1931 2011-03-13 19:02:02 <nanotube> genjix: right, something of that sort. not sure whether "receive bitcoins' or "generate new receiving address" would be clearer. but the basic idea yes.
1932 2011-03-13 19:02:07 <nanotube> genjix: glad you like :)
1933 2011-03-13 19:02:17 <BlueMatt> nanotube: I agree, though maybe not entirely with that implementation
1934 2011-03-13 19:02:23 <nanotube> i think this simple gui change will make the 'omg my bitcoin address changed' questions go away once and for all.
1935 2011-03-13 19:02:45 <nanotube> BlueMatt: i'm not attached to the specifics of implementation. just the idea that "your address" field should go. :)
1936 2011-03-13 19:03:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: responding to scrollback
1937 2011-03-13 19:03:04 <BlueMatt> nanotube: very true
1938 2011-03-13 19:03:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I know, please dont start that war again
1939 2011-03-13 19:03:34 <genjix> i also had this idea
1940 2011-03-13 19:03:41 <genjix> since it'd be nice if there was a bitcoin client
1941 2011-03-13 19:03:55 <Zarutian> jgarzik: what's wrong with that uri scheme we theymos put to gether so many moons ago?
1942 2011-03-13 19:04:00 <genjix> maybe somebody can make python bindings, and then people swap bitcoin components -> python code slowly.
1943 2011-03-13 19:04:07 <luke-jr> nanotube: we have a URI standard already :p
1944 2011-03-13 19:04:28 jaminja has quit (Quit: "darn split windows bbl")
1945 2011-03-13 19:04:40 <Zarutian> luke-jr: link to a document defining that URI standard/scheme?
1946 2011-03-13 19:04:41 <genjix> eventually there'd be a clean python implementation.
1947 2011-03-13 19:04:54 <luke-jr> Zarutian: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme
1948 2011-03-13 19:07:01 jostmey__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1949 2011-03-13 19:07:14 slush has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1950 2011-03-13 19:07:50 slush has joined
1951 2011-03-13 19:08:10 <TD> the URI scheme will be defined by whoever writes the patch to implement it, simple as that
1952 2011-03-13 19:08:29 <theorbtwo> Hm. I like that very much, other then the complexity of how numbers get specified.
1953 2011-03-13 19:08:40 <BlueMatt> might as well use the current one, its pretty simple and would work fine
1954 2011-03-13 19:09:11 <AAA_awright> Am I the only person who finds it ironic (moronic?) "Keep it simple" is a requirement and there's three different ways to specify an amount to pay
1955 2011-03-13 19:09:44 <luke-jr> TD: the URI scheme is already defined, and implemented
1956 2011-03-13 19:09:45 <BlueMatt> why the hell do we need support for TBC in the URI scheme?
1957 2011-03-13 19:09:49 <TD> implemented where?
1958 2011-03-13 19:09:49 <theorbtwo> AAA_awright: Detidedly not.
1959 2011-03-13 19:09:53 <luke-jr> TD: various places
1960 2011-03-13 19:09:56 <TD> like?
1961 2011-03-13 19:09:58 <BlueMatt> I think the only person using TBC is luke-jr
1962 2011-03-13 19:09:59 <theorbtwo> AAA_awright: Decidedly not.
1963 2011-03-13 19:10:02 <TD> how do i configure chrome and bitcoin to talk to them
1964 2011-03-13 19:10:08 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: then you're ignorant
1965 2011-03-13 19:10:18 * Zarutian has to let Spotlight reindex before he can find that btc uri scheme pastebin save he has somewhere.
1966 2011-03-13 19:10:26 <luke-jr> TD: some C# client IIRC at least
1967 2011-03-13 19:10:30 <TD> uh huh
1968 2011-03-13 19:10:43 <AAA_awright> Shut up. Just. Shut. Up.
1969 2011-03-13 19:10:57 <TD> maybe i need to spell it out. whoever implements URI schemes in the software everyone actually uses, will define the spec.
1970 2011-03-13 19:10:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: besides, it doesn't support TBC reallly
1971 2011-03-13 19:11:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea it does, put an x in front of the amount and its TBC
1972 2011-03-13 19:11:33 <luke-jr> TD: standards don't work that way. that's Microsoft Word/etc way
1973 2011-03-13 19:11:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nope
1974 2011-03-13 19:11:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you have to convert the Tonal number to Hexadecimal even then
1975 2011-03-13 19:11:47 * TD rolls his eyes
1976 2011-03-13 19:11:50 <TD> writing a wiki page does not a standard make
1977 2011-03-13 19:12:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh excuse me TBC -> hex, how hard
1978 2011-03-13 19:12:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I didn't say it was hard
1979 2011-03-13 19:12:11 <BlueMatt> its the same thing, just different symbols
1980 2011-03-13 19:12:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nor should it be
1981 2011-03-13 19:12:19 <AAA_awright> BlueMatt: No, because some idiot decided that TBC != BTC
1982 2011-03-13 19:12:31 <BlueMatt> AAA_awright: I know what TBC is
1983 2011-03-13 19:12:48 <AAA_awright> BlueMatt: No literally, it's a fraction of the value
1984 2011-03-13 19:12:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: do you know what ZBC is?
1985 2011-03-13 19:13:04 <BlueMatt> AAA_awright: its tonal, a different numbering system, I know
1986 2011-03-13 19:13:27 <theorbtwo> Tonal is just hexidecimal with a different set of symbols, right?
1987 2011-03-13 19:13:42 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: that's the basic numbering, yes
1988 2011-03-13 19:13:53 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: Tonal also has a complete system of units for measurement, time, etc
1989 2011-03-13 19:14:16 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Yes, but those aren't relevant here.
1990 2011-03-13 19:14:30 <theorbtwo> I actually read around a quarter of that book you linked me to the other day.
1991 2011-03-13 19:15:35 <theorbtwo> Can you explain, very briefly, what including anything other then the normal decimal way of numbering bitcoins in the URI specification makes it easier to use?
1992 2011-03-13 19:15:39 <genjix> why does tonal need new symbols for the extra digits? what's wrong with a-f?
1993 2011-03-13 19:16:05 <theorbtwo> genjix: Worse, it changes the definition of the symbol 9 as well.
1994 2011-03-13 19:16:49 <AAA_awright> Let's just use Base64 in atomic units and be done with it
1995 2011-03-13 19:17:13 <tcatm> TD: my js-remote uses the URI scheme
1996 2011-03-13 19:17:14 Lachesis has joined
1997 2011-03-13 19:17:16 <AAA_awright> And since it's a number we can right-align the data and not worry about padding
1998 2011-03-13 19:17:17 <theorbtwo> I can see the reason for not reusing letters as digits; it means that you must rely on context to tell the difference between a word and a number.
1999 2011-03-13 19:17:21 <genjix> esperanto uses ÄĵÅÄÄ¥ but you can write gx jx ux cx hx .etc
2000 2011-03-13 19:17:24 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: so it's easy for everyone to use, not just decimal peopel
2001 2011-03-13 19:17:37 defaced has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2002 2011-03-13 19:17:47 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Does anyone use a computer but not the decimal system?
2003 2011-03-13 19:17:52 Kiba` is now known as kiba
2004 2011-03-13 19:17:56 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: yes
2005 2011-03-13 19:18:01 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Whom?
2006 2011-03-13 19:18:08 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: me, and most people using Tonal
2007 2011-03-13 19:18:10 defaced has joined
2008 2011-03-13 19:18:32 <genjix> the world is too entrenched in their current number system to use a new one :)
2009 2011-03-13 19:18:40 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: I do not believe you when you say that you do not use the decimal system. You may *prefer* to use the tonal system, but that isn't the same thing.
2010 2011-03-13 19:18:47 <genjix> and the loss from switching is not worth the gain
2011 2011-03-13 19:19:13 <luke-jr> genjix: you assume there is a loss
2012 2011-03-13 19:19:37 <theorbtwo> True standards are very useful things. Numbers and calendars are pretty much the only ones that we have, and I most decidedly do not support those who would split off from that.
2013 2011-03-13 19:19:39 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: making someone use a non-preferred system, is not much better
2014 2011-03-13 19:19:44 <genjix> who does mental arithmetic anymore?
2015 2011-03-13 19:19:50 <BlueMatt> is it sad that tcatm's js-remote is the best ui for bitcoin. It looks nice and supports mobile
2016 2011-03-13 19:19:51 osearth has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2017 2011-03-13 19:19:53 <genjix> i hardly ever calculate math sums
2018 2011-03-13 19:19:59 <genjix> and i'm a math geek
2019 2011-03-13 19:20:14 <theorbtwo> (While many religious people *also* use another calendar, very very few people do not use the gregorian calendar.)
2020 2011-03-13 19:20:31 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: I very much disagree.
2021 2011-03-13 19:20:33 <genjix> theorbtwo: not only religious.
2022 2011-03-13 19:20:33 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: your "true standards" creates closed-minded people.
2023 2011-03-13 19:21:04 <luke-jr> if everyone only spoke one language, nobody would be bilingual
2024 2011-03-13 19:21:14 <tcatm> BlueMatt: maybe we could replace wxgui with a simple browser that runs js-remote
2025 2011-03-13 19:21:18 <theorbtwo> On a direct level, yes. However, it also makes people more easily able to communicate with each-other.
2026 2011-03-13 19:21:18 <AAA_awright> The innovation of computers is going to be far more significant to the innovation of place-value systems whatever innovation there is
2027 2011-03-13 19:21:30 <BlueMatt> tcatm: I agree. webkit ftw
2028 2011-03-13 19:21:39 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: while it is true, that while decimal is an (unfortunate) de facto global standard, if I want to use decimal for money, I can stick to USD
2029 2011-03-13 19:22:02 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: And loose quite a number of other benifits.
2030 2011-03-13 19:22:03 <luke-jr> tcatm: js-remote doesn't require a server?
2031 2011-03-13 19:22:12 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: not really
2032 2011-03-13 19:22:12 <TD> tcatm: but do you implement the ridiculous size encoding?
2033 2011-03-13 19:22:25 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no
2034 2011-03-13 19:22:26 <TD> 50 coins is 5X9, really??
2035 2011-03-13 19:22:36 <luke-jr> TD: you could just write 50X8
2036 2011-03-13 19:23:28 <tcatm> TD: I let luke-jr wrote the code, but it's compatible with standard Bitcoin values. I hope we can get rid of the exponent and hex stuff soon but I fear luke-jr would revert all wiki edits ;)
2037 2011-03-13 19:24:07 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: I think a far more reasonable tradeoff is for the URI scheme to allow a single, easily-read (for both most humans and most computer langauges) encoding of numbers, and allow your software to display it however you like.
2038 2011-03-13 19:24:32 <theorbtwo> It will be, however, fairly difficult to get your software to display proper tonal values, since the extra digits aren't in most fonts, or even encoded into Unicode.
2039 2011-03-13 19:24:37 <BlueMatt> theorbtwo: you can just use amount=50.12 and it works
2040 2011-03-13 19:24:43 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: the existing scheme is easily used for anyone
2041 2011-03-13 19:24:55 <AAA_awright> It's not simple.
2042 2011-03-13 19:25:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it wouldn't be valid without X8
2043 2011-03-13 19:25:19 <theorbtwo> BlueMatt: Oh!
2044 2011-03-13 19:25:26 <theorbtwo> That wasn't terribly clear.
2045 2011-03-13 19:25:34 <AAA_awright> I should know this but what is the actual atomic Bitcoin unit, microBTC?
2046 2011-03-13 19:25:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: theorbtwo the examples disagree
2047 2011-03-13 19:25:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: fixed
2048 2011-03-13 19:25:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and so does the js-remote implementation
2049 2011-03-13 19:25:46 <theorbtwo> "size: amount of base bitcoin units (uBTCents/TBCáµ-- NOT full DecimalBitCoins/BTC nor TonalBitCoins/TBC; see below)" is fairly opaque.
2050 2011-03-13 19:26:03 <AAA_awright> I have no clue what that's saying
2051 2011-03-13 19:26:04 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: that's what the "see below" is for
2052 2011-03-13 19:26:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok that is a bit ridiculous
2053 2011-03-13 19:26:19 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: the atomic unit is a centi-micro-bitcoin
2054 2011-03-13 19:26:22 <nanotube> AAA_awright: atomic bitcoin is 1e-8 bitcoins.
2055 2011-03-13 19:26:23 <tcatm> luke-jr: we added the "default to X8" part to the spec so 50.12 would be valid
2056 2011-03-13 19:26:23 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: or a bitcoin-bong
2057 2011-03-13 19:26:55 <luke-jr> tcatm: it was added, so 50.12 would do the right thing, not be valid
2058 2011-03-13 19:27:06 <luke-jr> eg, implementations *must* do the right thing when it encounters that amount
2059 2011-03-13 19:27:13 <luke-jr> but URIs still should specify X8
2060 2011-03-13 19:27:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: how is it bad to default to X8?
2061 2011-03-13 19:27:33 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: it makes everything 8x simpler
2062 2011-03-13 19:27:34 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: because X8 is temporary
2063 2011-03-13 19:27:49 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and when it changes, people will use x
2064 2011-03-13 19:27:53 <luke-jr> if BitCoin succeeds, the current BTC units are far too big
2065 2011-03-13 19:27:57 <AAA_awright> Space isn't a consern in URIs, so a compaction scheme like Base64 doesn't make much sense
2066 2011-03-13 19:28:10 <AAA_awright> Should I say encoding
2067 2011-03-13 19:28:12 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: an earlier draft, used a simple atomic unit int
2068 2011-03-13 19:28:20 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: unix 2038 is a bug but it is fine because its temporary
2069 2011-03-13 19:29:02 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: if bitcoin succeeds and x8 becomes x7, it wont be for another >10 years
2070 2011-03-13 19:29:23 <AAA_awright> What is the whole x thing about
2071 2011-03-13 19:29:36 <BlueMatt> AAA_awright: it means x10^x
2072 2011-03-13 19:29:40 <theorbtwo> AAA_awright: it appears to be a nonstandard way of writing 'e', for the most part.
2073 2011-03-13 19:29:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: more likely X4 or such like TBC
2074 2011-03-13 19:30:05 <AAA_awright> Is there any reason we would start using a unit other than BTC
2075 2011-03-13 19:30:11 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: because BTC is too big
2076 2011-03-13 19:30:17 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: It's arbritarty
2077 2011-03-13 19:30:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: it pretty clearly says "If exponent is omitted, implementations SHOULD assume X8 for decimal numbers, and X4 for hexadecimal numbers."
2078 2011-03-13 19:30:18 <tcatm> we should remove hex-encoding from the URI spec and use e instead of X
2079 2011-03-13 19:30:27 <nanotube> AAA_awright: not really, we always have mBTC and uBTC for smaller units. :)
2080 2011-03-13 19:30:33 <theorbtwo> Inflation over time.
2081 2011-03-13 19:30:39 <AAA_awright> The definition of which is also arbritary
2082 2011-03-13 19:30:42 <BlueMatt> tcatm: you are the only implementer, ie js-remote defines spec
2083 2011-03-13 19:30:50 <luke-jr> tcatm: no trolling necessary
2084 2011-03-13 19:30:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, he isn't.
2085 2011-03-13 19:30:59 <theorbtwo> If one bitcoin ends up with a value of thousands of dollars, then 0.01 BTC is still a lot of value.
2086 2011-03-13 19:31:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: who else does?
2087 2011-03-13 19:31:19 <luke-jr> I forget what the client is called, it's C#
2088 2011-03-13 19:31:19 <theorbtwo> (Thousands of current-day dollars, let's not complicate things with too much economics.)
2089 2011-03-13 19:31:24 <AAA_awright> There's no space conserns, what does an exponent matter
2090 2011-03-13 19:31:29 * luke-jr should also implement it for Spesmilo
2091 2011-03-13 19:31:47 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: you could specify amount as an absolute value if you want
2092 2011-03-13 19:31:54 <luke-jr> due to the X8 default issue, you need to put X0 at the end
2093 2011-03-13 19:32:00 <BlueMatt> aw fuck it, it already exists might as well leave it it works.
2094 2011-03-13 19:32:02 <AAA_awright> That's always been the idea in any other specification
2095 2011-03-13 19:32:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it also clearly says "The number SHOULD be followed by "X" <digits> to signify an exponent to the base multiplier."
2096 2011-03-13 19:32:44 <AAA_awright> Cut out the multiplier, and decide what unit the number is in terms of. There's no reason to do anything else.
2097 2011-03-13 19:32:46 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: tcatm wanted *some* way to write a value as BTC, hence we ended up with Xn
2098 2011-03-13 19:33:03 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: What other unit am I talking about?.
2099 2011-03-13 19:33:31 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: anything technical should only ever be using atomic units, except when displaying to humans
2100 2011-03-13 19:33:46 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Now that's a fair point.
2101 2011-03-13 19:34:08 * luke-jr notes this standard has been around since January 13th as-is, and if someone wanted to change anything it should have been done back then, before it was implemented
2102 2011-03-13 19:34:37 <luke-jr> it's now 2 months later
2103 2011-03-13 19:34:41 <nanotube> luke-jr: tcatm: fwiw, i don't get the need for the X bit. just specify full precision and go home happy....
2104 2011-03-13 19:34:43 <sgornick> luke-jr: Have you been messing around on witcoin? ... http://funnypics.witcoin.com
2105 2011-03-13 19:34:52 <luke-jr> sgornick: no
2106 2011-03-13 19:35:04 <sgornick> who else would do that then?
2107 2011-03-13 19:35:29 <luke-jr> nanotube: based on the spec, if you just do atomic units, you have to put X0, and if you don't, it'll get multiplied by 1e8
2108 2011-03-13 19:35:44 <tcatm> nanotube: 0.00000080 or 0.00000800 are easier to write as 80e0 and 800e0
2109 2011-03-13 19:36:00 <AAA_awright> Just go with atomic units
2110 2011-03-13 19:36:03 <luke-jr> sgornick: someone trolling Tonal?
2111 2011-03-13 19:36:06 <AAA_awright> No fractions
2112 2011-03-13 19:36:14 <sgornick> luke-jr: :-)
2113 2011-03-13 19:36:16 <AAA_awright> It's not hard to multiply by 10000000
2114 2011-03-13 19:36:24 <nanotube> tcatm: but nobody will be writing those - uri's are supposed to be clickable... no?
2115 2011-03-13 19:36:48 <theorbtwo> People writing web pages will be.
2116 2011-03-13 19:36:49 <tcatm> true
2117 2011-03-13 19:37:06 <Mango-chan> ;;btc,stats
2118 2011-03-13 19:37:06 <gribble> Error: "btc,stats" is not a valid command.
2119 2011-03-13 19:37:09 <Mango-chan> ;;btcstats
2120 2011-03-13 19:37:10 <gribble> Error: "btcstats" is not a valid command.
2121 2011-03-13 19:37:16 <theorbtwo> Mango-chan: /msg gribble.
2122 2011-03-13 19:37:17 <nanotube> theorbtwo: hopefully, they'll have code generating the uri's, rather than manually writing uris :)
2123 2011-03-13 19:37:22 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
2124 2011-03-13 19:37:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113430 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1481 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 41 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67848.87695297
2125 2011-03-13 19:37:27 <theorbtwo> nanotube: Yes, hopefully.
2126 2011-03-13 19:37:31 <tcatm> nanotube: good point
2127 2011-03-13 19:37:45 <tcatm> so 1e8 as base unit it is :)
2128 2011-03-13 19:38:00 <luke-jr> â¦
2129 2011-03-13 19:38:04 <luke-jr> it is what it is, already
2130 2011-03-13 19:38:29 <nanotube> i think that's sensible. basically, either pick 1e8 or 1 as base, and reduce the complexity.
2131 2011-03-13 19:38:38 <tcatm> no hex and no exponent support. the code generating the URI can do conversion as needed
2132 2011-03-13 19:38:42 <theorbtwo> Especially because for many use-cases, you really need to generate a new address quite often, because there's no other mechinisim for determing what you the transaction is paying for.
2133 2011-03-13 19:38:47 <Mango-chan> wait
2134 2011-03-13 19:38:48 <Mango-chan> if i have around
2135 2011-03-13 19:38:51 <Mango-chan> 2gh/s
2136 2011-03-13 19:38:54 <luke-jr> tcatm: it's already defined and implemented, and working fine
2137 2011-03-13 19:38:57 <Mango-chan> should i try mining by myself
2138 2011-03-13 19:39:00 <luke-jr> tcatm: stop trying to break things just to troll
2139 2011-03-13 19:39:04 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 2000000
2140 2011-03-13 19:39:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 day, 21 hours, 27 minutes, and 5 seconds
2141 2011-03-13 19:39:08 <nanotube> Mango-chan: --^
2142 2011-03-13 19:39:28 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calculate 16000000
2143 2011-03-13 19:39:28 <gribble> Error: "bc,calculate" is not a valid command.
2144 2011-03-13 19:39:34 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc 16000000
2145 2011-03-13 19:39:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5 hours, 40 minutes, and 53 seconds
2146 2011-03-13 19:39:38 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc 1600000
2147 2011-03-13 19:39:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 2 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes, and 51 seconds
2148 2011-03-13 19:41:12 <nanotube> tcatm: of course if it's already implemented, dunno if it's worth extra effort to change, only maybe to increase future adoption...?
2149 2011-03-13 19:42:23 <luke-jr> IMO, a sensible (and semi-compatible) change would be to make Xn optional, and define it as X0 if omitted ;)
2150 2011-03-13 19:42:31 <tcatm> Most future clients will probably use only 1e8-base encoding anyway.
2151 2011-03-13 19:43:16 defaced has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2152 2011-03-13 19:44:10 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2153 2011-03-13 19:44:42 <theorbtwo> I think a much better way would be to make btc= defined as a decimal number of 1e8 coins, with "." as the decimal seperator, and value= defined as a decimal integer number of bitcoin base units.
2154 2011-03-13 19:45:11 <tcatm> what if both are present?
2155 2011-03-13 19:45:37 <theorbtwo> While I make no judgements as to if tonal numbers are a good thing, but I think trying to attach tonal numbers to bitcoins will just hamper the bitcoin project.
2156 2011-03-13 19:45:51 <theorbtwo> tcatm: that MUST NOT happen, in RFC terms.
2157 2011-03-13 19:46:12 <theorbtwo> A valid URL may have btc or value, but not both.
2158 2011-03-13 19:46:31 <tcatm> mhm makes the URI spec quite "low-level"
2159 2011-03-13 19:46:52 <luke-jr> it's already defined, implemented, and working fine. there is no need for change, much less something incompatible.
2160 2011-03-13 19:47:14 <theorbtwo> tcatm: On the contrary, including btc= makes it rather high-level, since it's just sugar over value.
2161 2011-03-13 19:47:36 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Yes, that's one of the few downsides of that proposal -- it is very much backward-incompatable.
2162 2011-03-13 19:48:14 <theorbtwo> ...because currently, value=27 means what btc=27 would mean.
2163 2011-03-13 19:48:23 <tcatm> At this early stage we shouldn't worry to much about backward-compatibility.
2164 2011-03-13 19:48:55 <luke-jr> tcatm: tell that to bitcoind
2165 2011-03-13 19:49:10 <luke-jr> which is still using amounts that bug 90% of JSON-RPC implementations
2166 2011-03-13 19:49:21 <theorbtwo> You can flip value= and btc= from the way I said, and it's much more compatable, but the names make slightly less sense.
2167 2011-03-13 19:49:42 <luke-jr> again, there is no need to change anything, as what we have works
2168 2011-03-13 19:50:05 <tcatm> Let's see what the first widely used mobile client uses.
2169 2011-03-13 19:50:31 <luke-jr> I will gladly downplay any client that is incompatible with the spec âº
2170 2011-03-13 19:50:41 <theorbtwo> Sadly, it's too late to call it xbc, which isn't the currency code for the Buhtani C... something.
2171 2011-03-13 19:51:04 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2172 2011-03-13 19:51:07 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: If you do so, and mention tonal numbers in the same breath, I doubt it'll do much good.
2173 2011-03-13 19:51:22 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: no need to, this has nothing to do with tonal really
2174 2011-03-13 19:52:14 Bosma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2175 2011-03-13 19:59:42 defaced has joined
2176 2011-03-13 20:02:17 <frewsxcv> how does bitcoin find other peers?
2177 2011-03-13 20:02:22 <luke-jr> IRC
2178 2011-03-13 20:02:32 <frewsxcv> what channel/network?
2179 2011-03-13 20:02:38 <luke-jr> read the source
2180 2011-03-13 20:03:23 Zarutian has joined
2181 2011-03-13 20:03:32 <frewsxcv> luke-jr: what file?
2182 2011-03-13 20:03:38 <luke-jr> irc.cpp
2183 2011-03-13 20:04:13 <frewsxcv> hmm intersting
2184 2011-03-13 20:04:18 <frewsxcv> luke-jr: what happens if irc goes down?
2185 2011-03-13 20:04:30 <Aciid> frewsxcv: read documentation
2186 2011-03-13 20:04:31 <luke-jr> then hope one of the failover peers is online
2187 2011-03-13 20:07:00 <BlueMatt> the channel has been full quite a bit recently, but clients keep working ok. just take a while longer to connect
2188 2011-03-13 20:10:43 <nanotube> BlueMatt: to speed up connections, run with -noirc.
2189 2011-03-13 20:11:10 <nanotube> theorbtwo: btc is not currently used by any existing currency code.
2190 2011-03-13 20:11:12 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2191 2011-03-13 20:11:16 <tcatm> Can we disable irc by default?
2192 2011-03-13 20:11:26 <theorbtwo> nanotube: That doesn't mean it belongs to nobody, though.
2193 2011-03-13 20:11:38 <theorbtwo> All codes begining with bt are reserved for the use of buhtan.
2194 2011-03-13 20:11:48 TheKid has left ()
2195 2011-03-13 20:11:49 <luke-jr> O.o
2196 2011-03-13 20:11:54 <nanotube> theorbtwo: really?
2197 2011-03-13 20:12:01 <theorbtwo> nanotube: Really.
2198 2011-03-13 20:12:19 <tcatm> who cares? $ is used for many currencies
2199 2011-03-13 20:12:21 <theorbtwo> It's two-letter iso country code, followed by a letter for the name of the currency.
2200 2011-03-13 20:12:30 <theorbtwo> tcatm: USD is only used by one, though.
2201 2011-03-13 20:12:35 <nanotube> if each country has reservation of the first two letters of the three-letter code... that means we only can have 26*26 total unique natl currencies. i can't believe that.
2202 2011-03-13 20:12:36 <tcatm> USD != $ ;)
2203 2011-03-13 20:12:43 <TD> ZZB?
2204 2011-03-13 20:12:44 <TD> heh
2205 2011-03-13 20:12:58 <theorbtwo> Currency codes belonging with x are for non-country use.
2206 2011-03-13 20:13:07 <TD> i suspect there are very few systems that actually parse currency codes and use the country identifier for anything
2207 2011-03-13 20:13:16 <theorbtwo> Er, sorry. Actually, beginning with xx, which makes it a bit silly.
2208 2011-03-13 20:13:17 <luke-jr> so XDB, XTB, XZB
2209 2011-03-13 20:13:19 <luke-jr> â¦
2210 2011-03-13 20:13:26 <luke-jr> that's only 26 total
2211 2011-03-13 20:13:28 <theorbtwo> x is reserved for use with base metals.
2212 2011-03-13 20:13:35 <theorbtwo> xau is gold.
2213 2011-03-13 20:13:38 <luke-jr> bitcoin is a base metal
2214 2011-03-13 20:13:42 <tcatm> BTC isn't a currency code. It's just an abbreviation
2215 2011-03-13 20:13:47 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: GAU is gold, actually
2216 2011-03-13 20:14:40 <nanotube> theorbtwo: though i guess looking at the iso4217 list, it does seem that way. :) so nvm.
2217 2011-03-13 20:15:08 <theorbtwo> Hm, I should really re-read wikipedia *before* spouting incorrect details.
2218 2011-03-13 20:15:17 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2219 2011-03-13 20:15:30 BlueMatt has joined
2220 2011-03-13 20:15:32 BlueMatt has quit (Client Quit)
2221 2011-03-13 20:15:44 <theorbtwo> All of X, not just XX, is other users. XAU is gold, but XDR is special drawing rights, not the element with symbol DR.
2222 2011-03-13 20:15:47 <theorbtwo> Dr, rather.
2223 2011-03-13 20:15:54 <tcatm> If bitcoins continue to be used ISO will eventually assign a currency code.
2224 2011-03-13 20:16:03 <luke-jr> XB[DTZ] for bitcoin
2225 2011-03-13 20:16:12 <nanotube> yea they'll come up with something. i wouldn't worry about it just now. :)
2226 2011-03-13 20:16:32 <theorbtwo> Fair enough, I suppose.
2227 2011-03-13 20:16:47 <theorbtwo> They've certianly been known to break their own rules before assigning them, too.
2228 2011-03-13 20:16:47 BlueMatt has joined
2229 2011-03-13 20:16:48 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2230 2011-03-13 20:16:48 BlueMatt has joined
2231 2011-03-13 20:16:54 phantomcircuit has joined
2232 2011-03-13 20:17:00 <theorbtwo> The Euro is EUR, not XEU.
2233 2011-03-13 20:17:08 <nanotube> right
2234 2011-03-13 20:17:21 <nanotube> guess the europeans bristled at being stuffed into the X's :)
2235 2011-03-13 20:17:22 <nanotube> heh
2236 2011-03-13 20:17:24 <tcatm> Could even take 10 years after bitcoins are known tho the public until we have a currency code ;)
2237 2011-03-13 20:18:24 <theorbtwo> OTOH, there isn't a country with two-letter code EU.
2238 2011-03-13 20:18:45 TheKid has joined
2239 2011-03-13 20:19:04 <theorbtwo> EU is "exceptionally reserved" for the european union.
2240 2011-03-13 20:19:46 * theorbtwo shrugs.
2241 2011-03-13 20:20:51 <theorbtwo> Sooner or later, the ISO will give us a code, if it catches on. In the meantime, lets hope Bhutan doesn't decide to change currencies to something with a "C".
2242 2011-03-13 20:22:16 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2243 2011-03-13 20:24:34 <luke-jr> there
2244 2011-03-13 20:24:38 <luke-jr> Spesmilo now supports URIs
2245 2011-03-13 20:25:27 aaa3 has joined
2246 2011-03-13 20:26:40 agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2247 2011-03-13 20:28:25 TheKid has joined
2248 2011-03-13 20:28:31 TheKid has quit (Client Quit)
2249 2011-03-13 20:28:48 molecular has joined
2250 2011-03-13 20:30:09 TheKid has joined
2251 2011-03-13 20:31:26 gavinandresen has joined
2252 2011-03-13 20:32:08 <Spenvo> hmm, jostmey and i have an idea for a wp plugin that we'll be releasing to the wp community
2253 2011-03-13 20:32:24 <Spenvo> should help bring bitcoin into other blogs
2254 2011-03-13 20:33:25 <Spenvo> it will take the last x number of lines from this irc, display them and have a link that brings people to web irc
2255 2011-03-13 20:33:39 <Spenvo> should be done in a week more or less!
2256 2011-03-13 20:34:17 <Spenvo> likey?
2257 2011-03-13 20:35:11 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
2258 2011-03-13 20:35:35 Spenvo has joined
2259 2011-03-13 20:35:51 <Spenvo> anybody here?
2260 2011-03-13 20:36:29 <gavinandresen> I'm 1/10'th here
2261 2011-03-13 20:36:33 <lfm> wp == word perfect?
2262 2011-03-13 20:36:37 <Spenvo> wordpress
2263 2011-03-13 20:36:38 <luke-jr> Spenvo: ⦠why?
2264 2011-03-13 20:36:46 <genjix> anyone know any ood graphing software for linux?
2265 2011-03-13 20:36:52 <genjix> good
2266 2011-03-13 20:36:59 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you just made my head infinitely loop converting that to binary! :p
2267 2011-03-13 20:37:00 <Spenvo> b/c people have questions about bitcoin.
2268 2011-03-13 20:37:02 <genjix> or something dealing with linear inequalities
2269 2011-03-13 20:37:10 <genjix> *linear programming
2270 2011-03-13 20:37:15 <luke-jr> Spenvo: I don't see what an IRC wordpress thing has to do with Bitcoin
2271 2011-03-13 20:37:16 <lfm> open office has graphing. gnuplot for old scool
2272 2011-03-13 20:37:36 <Spenvo> shows there is a community
2273 2011-03-13 20:37:43 <luke-jr> genjix: want to test my new Spesmilo branch?
2274 2011-03-13 20:37:44 <Spenvo> oh well, we'll try it
2275 2011-03-13 20:38:40 <genjix> cant,,, very busy atm
2276 2011-03-13 20:38:40 <gribble> Error: "," is not a valid command.
2277 2011-03-13 20:39:00 <genjix> anybody here good at linear programming?
2278 2011-03-13 20:39:03 <luke-jr> genjix: http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo/commits/URI when you get a chance
2279 2011-03-13 20:39:15 <luke-jr> genjix: it implements bitcoin: URIs, passed to send.py on command line
2280 2011-03-13 20:44:40 <BlueMatt> genjix: what are you trying to do?
2281 2011-03-13 20:47:24 <nanotube> Spenvo: could be useful. see how it works out. :)
2282 2011-03-13 20:48:30 <Spenvo> thanks for support! actually, jostmey (no longer in IRC) is getting this one. it's his idea :)
2283 2011-03-13 20:48:32 CyanDynamo has joined
2284 2011-03-13 20:48:55 osearth has joined
2285 2011-03-13 20:49:21 <Spenvo> he's a shy one, i have to speak up for him sometimes
2286 2011-03-13 20:49:29 <Spenvo> lol, don't tell him i said that
2287 2011-03-13 20:50:07 <BlueMatt> Spenvo: this channel is logged
2288 2011-03-13 20:50:21 <Spenvo> lol, sh- ah he
2289 2011-03-13 20:50:22 <osearth> assume all channels are logged
2290 2011-03-13 20:50:25 <Spenvo> 'll forgive me
2291 2011-03-13 20:50:58 <Spenvo> jostmey and i have known each other for about five years, just turned him on to bitcoin
2292 2011-03-13 20:52:56 <Spenvo> i'm out for a while guys. be sure to check out my interview of cusipzzz when i post it in a few hours. it's freakin awesome!
2293 2011-03-13 20:53:33 <osearth> the screensaver client says something like Target: 0000000fffff0000 but there is a Target directive you can specify in the rpcminer config, i assumed this was supposed to be your wallet id
2294 2011-03-13 20:53:57 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
2295 2011-03-13 20:54:09 <Cusipzzz> o.O
2296 2011-03-13 20:54:10 alystair has joined
2297 2011-03-13 20:54:27 <justmoon> Cusipzzz: you're a star! :)
2298 2011-03-13 20:54:43 <nanotube> Cusipzzz: interview?
2299 2011-03-13 20:55:22 <justmoon> nanotube: for http://www.bitcoinbulletin.com/ I believe
2300 2011-03-13 20:55:28 <Cusipzzz> ya.. he wanted to interview me about btcsportsbet.com, he tried it out.
2301 2011-03-13 20:55:42 <nanotube> ah neat. :)
2302 2011-03-13 20:56:12 <Cusipzzz> bitcoin is a haven for people who can predict Starcraft league matches, apparently :/
2303 2011-03-13 20:56:20 <nanotube> hehe
2304 2011-03-13 20:56:33 <Cusipzzz> <cough> justmoon </cough>
2305 2011-03-13 20:56:44 <Cusipzzz> and him too
2306 2011-03-13 20:57:05 <justmoon> :D
2307 2011-03-13 20:57:20 <nanotube> heh
2308 2011-03-13 20:57:41 <Cusipzzz> never expected so many people betting those, need to do more research obv..lol
2309 2011-03-13 20:57:41 <justmoon> easiest 21 BTC I ever made
2310 2011-03-13 20:57:49 <Cusipzzz> haha
2311 2011-03-13 20:58:14 <justmoon> totally recommend it btw, site is very well done
2312 2011-03-13 20:58:30 <BlueMatt> Cusipzzz: do you have betting on bitcoin difficulty/price?
2313 2011-03-13 20:58:48 <Cusipzzz> justmoon: thx
2314 2011-03-13 20:59:03 <Cusipzzz> BlueMatt: no, i may add it...
2315 2011-03-13 20:59:17 * theorbtwo wonders if betting bitcoin on when the next bitcoin block will be created qualifies as a derivitives market.
2316 2011-03-13 20:59:19 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2317 2011-03-13 21:00:09 da2ce7 has joined
2318 2011-03-13 21:00:24 <BlueMatt> theorbtwo: dont really think so
2319 2011-03-13 21:00:32 <Cusipzzz> speaking of the site, i HATE daylight savings time..took me 5 hrs to clean everything up.
2320 2011-03-13 21:01:02 <BlueMatt> theorbtwo: though I will take this opportunity to point out the fact that a derivatives market, especially futures contracts, could help bitcoin adoption quite a bit
2321 2011-03-13 21:01:15 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: should use Tonal then ;D
2322 2011-03-13 21:01:18 <BlueMatt> by removing a large amount of the huge risk that is bitcoin's future
2323 2011-03-13 21:01:20 AmpEater has joined
2324 2011-03-13 21:01:45 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: i use gmt, it's not me, but a lot of my sourcing uses a variety of local times that had to be fixed...sigh
2325 2011-03-13 21:01:52 <AmpEater> ;;bc,diff
2326 2011-03-13 21:01:53 <gribble> 76193.9710474
2327 2011-03-13 21:02:02 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: GMT has daylight savings
2328 2011-03-13 21:02:10 <Cusipzzz> yes, but it's consistent
2329 2011-03-13 21:02:15 <luke-jr> â¦
2330 2011-03-13 21:02:16 <Cusipzzz> some states don't
2331 2011-03-13 21:02:18 <theorbtwo> Hm. The problem is that you have to trust the contract, of course.
2332 2011-03-13 21:02:22 <luke-jr> no, it changes when every other timezone does
2333 2011-03-13 21:02:38 <Cusipzzz> arizona doesn't believe in it
2334 2011-03-13 21:02:39 <luke-jr> only UTC, UGT, Tonal, and Dozenal don't change
2335 2011-03-13 21:02:40 <Cusipzzz> lol
2336 2011-03-13 21:03:24 prax has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2337 2011-03-13 21:03:30 <theorbtwo> GMT doesn't have daylight savings. The civil time at Grenich isn't GMT during the summer, it's BST.
2338 2011-03-13 21:03:46 <osearth> there has got to be a better way to distribute the coins.. spare cpu cycles got to have more of a purpose
2339 2011-03-13 21:04:21 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: wtf? really?
2340 2011-03-13 21:04:29 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Yes.
2341 2011-03-13 21:04:45 <luke-jr> osearth: they serve the purpose of preventing someone from hijacking the block chain, too
2342 2011-03-13 21:05:10 <BlueMatt> theorbtwo: hence we need a market for them, if they are escrowed then the contract is fairly safe
2343 2011-03-13 21:05:27 <theorbtwo> Hmm, yeah, I guess.
2344 2011-03-13 21:06:01 <Cusipzzz> you need a trusted exchange to remove counterparty risk and the whole escrow scene
2345 2011-03-13 21:06:10 <theorbtwo> Exactly.
2346 2011-03-13 21:06:36 <theorbtwo> Other then that, it's just betting on the future exchange rate of BTC/USD or the like, no?
2347 2011-03-13 21:06:50 <BlueMatt> pretty much
2348 2011-03-13 21:07:12 <BlueMatt> a company who wants to accept btc could buy a futures contract and have a guaranteed price to sell btc back for usd
2349 2011-03-13 21:07:54 <Cusipzzz> there will be an exchange, give it time.
2350 2011-03-13 21:09:13 <Cusipzzz> then we can finally have bitcoin CDOs..and gain acceptance by global banks ;)
2351 2011-03-13 21:09:23 <BlueMatt> ha
2352 2011-03-13 21:09:56 <BlueMatt> my point is just that a futures contract market would be great for business acceptance which is ultimately what we really need right now
2353 2011-03-13 21:10:25 <Cusipzzz> agree, and it is coming.
2354 2011-03-13 21:11:03 <BlueMatt> Cusipzzz: Ive spoken to all the major exchages and none of them say its really being considered so...
2355 2011-03-13 21:11:16 <mmagic> ;;bc,stats
2356 2011-03-13 21:11:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113435 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1476 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 14 hours, 23 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67484.27572553
2357 2011-03-13 21:11:47 <Cusipzzz> well, something that is not major today may be major tomorrow
2358 2011-03-13 21:11:56 <Cusipzzz> at one point nobody was major, so hang in there
2359 2011-03-13 21:12:03 <BlueMatt> Cusipzzz: fair enough
2360 2011-03-13 21:13:50 <AmpEater> sweeeeeet
2361 2011-03-13 21:13:56 <AmpEater> difficulty drop
2362 2011-03-13 21:14:05 <mmagic> not by much
2363 2011-03-13 21:14:24 <mmagic> and there's a week to go where MM might come back with a vengeance.
2364 2011-03-13 21:14:41 <TheKid> mmagic: can you explain mysterminer?
2365 2011-03-13 21:14:51 <TheKid> I'm unaware of what went on/is going on
2366 2011-03-13 21:14:55 <AmpEater> yeah, I;'m sort of betting MM is gone for a while
2367 2011-03-13 21:15:00 <BlueMatt> TheKid: its a miner who has a TON of processing power
2368 2011-03-13 21:15:00 <TheKid> except for the forum thread which didn't explain anything
2369 2011-03-13 21:15:01 <mmagic> well there's a reason why he's called the mystery miner.
2370 2011-03-13 21:15:10 <BlueMatt> TheKid: no one knows who he/she is
2371 2011-03-13 21:15:22 <TheKid> how do we know it's a singular miner?
2372 2011-03-13 21:15:26 <mmagic> the equivalent of about $400k of hyper-efficient mining equipment
2373 2011-03-13 21:15:30 <mmagic> all the money went into a single wallet.
2374 2011-03-13 21:15:34 <BlueMatt> TheKid: but they have a special signature in all the blocks they mine
2375 2011-03-13 21:15:35 <mmagic> like, an address.
2376 2011-03-13 21:15:45 <AmpEater> ohh, didn't know that
2377 2011-03-13 21:15:47 <BlueMatt> TheKid: and they were stupid and put all their money in one address
2378 2011-03-13 21:15:52 <TheKid> hmmm
2379 2011-03-13 21:15:53 <mmagic> it is reasonable to conclude that it is a single entity
2380 2011-03-13 21:15:56 <AmpEater> how does that work? non-standard client?
2381 2011-03-13 21:15:59 <TheKid> someone was watching blockexplorer?
2382 2011-03-13 21:16:05 <BlueMatt> AmpEater: mustve been
2383 2011-03-13 21:16:07 <mmagic> or just a hacked bitcoind. they might be doing their own pool
2384 2011-03-13 21:16:14 <AmpEater> yeah, Ive seen the block with all the earnings
2385 2011-03-13 21:16:23 <BlueMatt> hacked bitcoind == non-standard client
2386 2011-03-13 21:16:24 <AmpEater> like 50,000 in it right
2387 2011-03-13 21:16:49 <mmagic> about that.
2388 2011-03-13 21:16:54 <TheKid> hmm
2389 2011-03-13 21:16:56 <AmpEater> so....I could theoretically embed a message into my blocks and have them be accepted?
2390 2011-03-13 21:17:02 <TheKid> so we know nothing other than there's one giant miner somewhere?
2391 2011-03-13 21:17:05 <BlueMatt> they appeared to peak at around 50% of network
2392 2011-03-13 21:17:12 <BlueMatt> IIRC
2393 2011-03-13 21:17:15 <TheKid> I'm betting it was university supercomputer time or something
2394 2011-03-13 21:17:17 <AmpEater> yeah, that is scary.....get to 50% and quit
2395 2011-03-13 21:17:22 <TheKid> wait, BlueMatt, what?
2396 2011-03-13 21:17:31 <TheKid> they represented 50% of the network hashing power?
2397 2011-03-13 21:17:31 <mmagic> proof that it can be done.
2398 2011-03-13 21:17:36 <BlueMatt> TheKid: yep
2399 2011-03-13 21:17:39 <TheKid> woah
2400 2011-03-13 21:17:42 <AmpEater> the 50% means he could attack, rigt
2401 2011-03-13 21:17:45 <BlueMatt> TheKid: thats why people are kinda freaked out about him
2402 2011-03-13 21:17:51 <TheKid> no, I believe you need 51%
2403 2011-03-13 21:17:52 <BlueMatt> AmpEater: yea...
2404 2011-03-13 21:17:52 <mmagic> yes, at a few small points in time, probably due to normal variations, it was more than 50%
2405 2011-03-13 21:18:02 <TheKid> or more than 50 anyway
2406 2011-03-13 21:18:06 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
2407 2011-03-13 21:18:06 <TheKid> either way, scary
2408 2011-03-13 21:18:13 <AmpEater> right, the graph was kinda scary....see MM get more powerfull than the whole network
2409 2011-03-13 21:18:15 <TheKid> has to be a government or big business or something
2410 2011-03-13 21:18:18 <TheKid> maybe it was google
2411 2011-03-13 21:18:36 <AmpEater> NSA, CIA, russia....
2412 2011-03-13 21:18:39 <BlueMatt> it mustve been [mike]/TD running it on google servers
2413 2011-03-13 21:18:41 <AmpEater> lol (sorta)
2414 2011-03-13 21:18:47 <ArtForz> or a plain old botnet
2415 2011-03-13 21:18:47 <TheKid> [mike] was in on it :)
2416 2011-03-13 21:18:53 <mmagic> bitcoin isn't big enough to be a target for any of those larger entities.
2417 2011-03-13 21:18:55 <AmpEater> why would a botnet stop at 50%?
2418 2011-03-13 21:18:56 <TheKid> that must be one big botnet
2419 2011-03-13 21:19:05 <TheKid> AmpEater: to prove it could be done?
2420 2011-03-13 21:19:20 <theorbtwo> Because they realized that renting out the botnet to a spammer was more profitable?
2421 2011-03-13 21:19:25 <ArtForz> about 100-150k machines or so
2422 2011-03-13 21:19:39 <AmpEater> eh, seems like they could have done the math and figured that out real easy
2423 2011-03-13 21:19:43 <theorbtwo> Are those the blocks with lots of OP_CHECKSIGs in them?
2424 2011-03-13 21:19:44 <AmpEater> didn't have to mine for months
2425 2011-03-13 21:19:46 <BlueMatt> or they pay to access the botnet and decided it wasnt worth it
2426 2011-03-13 21:19:46 <mmagic> AmpEater: because they were found out. imagine if everyone's confidence in the currency bottomed out. how would MM's coins give him an ROI?
2427 2011-03-13 21:19:53 <AmpEater> ahhh
2428 2011-03-13 21:19:57 <AmpEater> indeed, that makes sense
2429 2011-03-13 21:20:41 <AmpEater> we can tell when they are spent though right....
2430 2011-03-13 21:20:47 <AmpEater> wont be a mystery forever?
2431 2011-03-13 21:20:49 <ArtForz> there were also botnets doing PW cracking for a while, stopped pretty quickly once they realized they were losing zombies WAY faster than normal
2432 2011-03-13 21:21:05 <AmpEater> why would they loose them faster?
2433 2011-03-13 21:21:11 <AmpEater> too much load?
2434 2011-03-13 21:21:14 <ArtForz> yup
2435 2011-03-13 21:21:18 <Lachesis> ;;bc,status
2436 2011-03-13 21:21:18 <gribble> Error: "bc,status" is not a valid command.
2437 2011-03-13 21:21:25 <Lachesis> ;;bc,stats
2438 2011-03-13 21:21:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113436 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1475 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 47 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67513.97877858
2439 2011-03-13 21:21:29 <mmagic> at some point in the future, they'll be back, and in fact that kind of hashing will help the network as a whole. but it's too soon both for the BTC economy, and the network, technically, to absorb that kind of power yet.
2440 2011-03-13 21:21:32 <AmpEater> I was just looking into building a 20 node cracking cluster
2441 2011-03-13 21:21:37 <ArtForz> 100% CPU 24/7 is kinda... obvious
2442 2011-03-13 21:21:38 <AmpEater> dont know why....for fun
2443 2011-03-13 21:21:49 <AmpEater> right
2444 2011-03-13 21:21:56 <AmpEater> they could throttle it, right?
2445 2011-03-13 21:22:01 <ArtForz> sure
2446 2011-03-13 21:22:19 <AmpEater> I do like a good mystery
2447 2011-03-13 21:22:23 <theorbtwo> But if they only run it half-time, then our estimate of how many bots are in the botnet doubles.
2448 2011-03-13 21:22:28 <ArtForz> yep
2449 2011-03-13 21:23:03 <AmpEater> you've got the ASICs right artforz?
2450 2011-03-13 21:23:08 <ArtForz> yea
2451 2011-03-13 21:23:28 <ArtForz> got all 3 2Us up and running
2452 2011-03-13 21:23:38 <AmpEater> what is your cost relative to GPUs.....people talk like they are crazy expensive but must be cheaper for you to do it
2453 2011-03-13 21:23:49 <theorbtwo> You've got 6U worth of ASIC miners?
2454 2011-03-13 21:23:58 <ArtForz> yep
2455 2011-03-13 21:24:04 <AmpEater> or just a larger iminimum nitial investment?
2456 2011-03-13 21:24:07 <ArtForz> initial cost is about twice of GPU for the next runs
2457 2011-03-13 21:24:13 <xelister> luke-jr: <luke-jr> xelister: USA is the least-bad of all modern countries
2458 2011-03-13 21:24:15 <AmpEater> lower power?
2459 2011-03-13 21:24:17 <xelister> luke-jr: bitch are you crazy
2460 2011-03-13 21:24:17 <ArtForz> for this run it was more like 4x
2461 2011-03-13 21:24:20 <mmagic> wayy lower power.
2462 2011-03-13 21:24:30 <ArtForz> power use for equivalent hashrate about 1/11th of 5970
2463 2011-03-13 21:24:30 <AmpEater> I see
2464 2011-03-13 21:24:35 <AmpEater> very cool
2465 2011-03-13 21:24:40 <theorbtwo> Well, in the long term, the question is watts per coin, I suppose. You just have to amoritize long enough.
2466 2011-03-13 21:24:43 <AmpEater> so you're long term then
2467 2011-03-13 21:24:49 <ArtForz> yup
2468 2011-03-13 21:24:51 <ArtForz> well, not really *cool*
2469 2011-03-13 21:24:51 <AmpEater> cool
2470 2011-03-13 21:25:10 <ArtForz> thanks to crappy packaging I need pretty crazy cooling
2471 2011-03-13 21:25:20 <Lachesis> ArtForz, worse than GPUs?
2472 2011-03-13 21:25:26 <AmpEater> you keeping them to yourself, or they available to others?
2473 2011-03-13 21:25:31 <ArtForz> I'd say so
2474 2011-03-13 21:25:42 <ArtForz> each 2U has 5 12W 80mm fans
2475 2011-03-13 21:25:46 <Lachesis> jeez
2476 2011-03-13 21:26:03 <ArtForz> and that *barely* keeps junction temp in check
2477 2011-03-13 21:26:04 TheKid has left ()
2478 2011-03-13 21:26:29 <ArtForz> plastic BGA = teh suck for tJC
2479 2011-03-13 21:26:30 <AmpEater> you got pics of this stuff on the internet, or top secret?
2480 2011-03-13 21:26:31 <theorbtwo> It's cheaper per watt even after taking into account the power you spend on cooling?
2481 2011-03-13 21:26:39 <ArtForz> a lot
2482 2011-03-13 21:26:47 <ArtForz> each 2U is about 6.4Ghps
2483 2011-03-13 21:26:56 <ArtForz> well, *exactly* 6.4Ghps
2484 2011-03-13 21:26:59 <AmpEater> lol
2485 2011-03-13 21:27:28 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: Did an interview about bitcoin last week (for a German science podcast: Omega Tau), and they ask "Can you please point
2486 2011-03-13 21:27:28 <gavinandresen> me to the bitcoin custom hardware (if there's a website)"
2487 2011-03-13 21:27:29 <Lachesis> ArtForz, did you take your GPU boxes offline?
2488 2011-03-13 21:27:40 <ArtForz> Lachesis: nope
2489 2011-03-13 21:28:05 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: you speak german?
2490 2011-03-13 21:28:17 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no, interview was in English
2491 2011-03-13 21:28:22 <gavinandresen> Well, American.
2492 2011-03-13 21:28:27 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: you have waaayy too much money, where the hell do you work?
2493 2011-03-13 21:28:32 <ArtForz> gpu mining is still quite profitable, doesnt make sense to shut em down sell the hardware and buy more ASICs until difficulty hits ~150k at current usd/btc
2494 2011-03-13 21:28:59 <theorbtwo> And current power rates?
2495 2011-03-13 21:29:38 <theorbtwo> I expect the price of power to keep going up. Especially as what's happening in Japan gets processed by people.
2496 2011-03-13 21:29:49 <ArtForz> I'm slowly moving my GPU miners to grid power, so approaching $0.3/kWh
2497 2011-03-13 21:29:53 <BlueMatt> theorbtwo: no its overvalued for what it is right now
2498 2011-03-13 21:29:59 prax has joined
2499 2011-03-13 21:30:00 <AmpEater> what, you on a generator?
2500 2011-03-13 21:30:04 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: you don't have a blog or website talking about bitcoin mining, do you?
2501 2011-03-13 21:30:08 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: nope
2502 2011-03-13 21:30:14 <ArtForz> AmpEater: yea, kinda
2503 2011-03-13 21:30:18 <AmpEater> interesting
2504 2011-03-13 21:30:22 <ArtForz> micro combined heat + power
2505 2011-03-13 21:30:28 <AmpEater> since your all about long term, why not solar or wind?
2506 2011-03-13 21:30:40 <AmpEater> *seriously* long term there
2507 2011-03-13 21:30:59 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: would you ever do an interview on FLOSS Weekly (on the Twit network)? Im sure theyd love to have you
2508 2011-03-13 21:31:22 <[Tycho]> Solar power is very expensive.
2509 2011-03-13 21:31:32 <ArtForz> well, not if you get subsidies ;)
2510 2011-03-13 21:31:40 <BlueMatt> especially in germany where Art is. It doesnt really make sense when you get so little sun
2511 2011-03-13 21:31:56 <AmpEater> germany is the world leader of solar
2512 2011-03-13 21:32:04 <AmpEater> per capita
2513 2011-03-13 21:32:07 <ArtForz> yup
2514 2011-03-13 21:32:18 <AmpEater> I know that...and I'm a dumb american
2515 2011-03-13 21:32:37 <ArtForz> the subsidies are pretty crazy
2516 2011-03-13 21:32:38 <AmpEater> its even cheaper here where we *really* dont get any sun
2517 2011-03-13 21:32:38 <BlueMatt> only because of the huge subsidies they give out
2518 2011-03-13 21:32:59 <ArtForz> my PVs have fully paid off in another 7 years or so
2519 2011-03-13 21:33:07 <AmpEater> sweet
2520 2011-03-13 21:33:23 <BlueMatt> ha 7 years...might take a while
2521 2011-03-13 21:33:29 <AmpEater> I build electric vehicles, drive an electric motorcycle and stuff....cant wait to charge from the sun!
2522 2011-03-13 21:33:49 <AmpEater> power prices NEVER go down
2523 2011-03-13 21:33:56 <ArtForz> I drive a 20 year old diesel escort van :P
2524 2011-03-13 21:34:25 <BlueMatt> lol Id expect Art to drive a Mercedes or atleast a BMW or Audi
2525 2011-03-13 21:34:25 <ArtForz> and a 24 year old diesel vanagon
2526 2011-03-13 21:34:33 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: what kind of terrible german are you?
2527 2011-03-13 21:34:34 <AmpEater> diesel van huh.....can't even get those over here
2528 2011-03-13 21:34:44 <Cusipzzz> vw microbus?!
2529 2011-03-13 21:34:46 <BlueMatt> diesel is pretty common in germany
2530 2011-03-13 21:34:50 <xelister> luke-jr: Y U NO RESPONDE? I said *please(
2531 2011-03-13 21:34:52 <ArtForz> yup
2532 2011-03-13 21:34:58 <JunK-Y> ArtForz: stop buying 5970s and by a decent car :P
2533 2011-03-13 21:35:07 <BlueMatt> or sell your btc and buy one
2534 2011-03-13 21:35:11 <AmpEater> you have to pay a $5k-$10k premium for a nice diesel model of the same car here
2535 2011-03-13 21:35:13 <xelister> buy a car powered by steam from the 5970s
2536 2011-03-13 21:35:17 <xelister> *build
2537 2011-03-13 21:35:19 <ArtForz> those *are* decent cars
2538 2011-03-13 21:35:36 <AmpEater> Id drive a diesel no questions.....mpg is awesome
2539 2011-03-13 21:35:59 * xelister puts out a hit bounty for "20 year old diesel escort van living in suburban area"
2540 2011-03-13 21:36:18 <BlueMatt> gonna go rape some children are we now xelister
2541 2011-03-13 21:36:25 <ArtForz> lol
2542 2011-03-13 21:37:14 <xelister> BlueMatt: heeey, I didn't even pass the finall tests to become priest
2543 2011-03-13 21:37:28 TheKid has joined
2544 2011-03-13 21:37:33 <AmpEater> what do you call what your AISCs do? mining? crunching? cracking? computing? I never know what to say
2545 2011-03-13 21:37:41 <ArtForz> mining, usually
2546 2011-03-13 21:37:44 <BlueMatt> AmpEater: brute forcing
2547 2011-03-13 21:37:53 <BlueMatt> xelister: haha now thats just terrible
2548 2011-03-13 21:37:55 <AmpEater> I like that ring of that
2549 2011-03-13 21:38:09 <AmpEater> hard to make computers sound bad ass
2550 2011-03-13 21:38:52 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: do you just have one central bitcoind for mining? or do you have multiple
2551 2011-03-13 21:39:26 <ArtForz> one bitcoind for mining
2552 2011-03-13 21:39:33 <ArtForz> one facing outside
2553 2011-03-13 21:40:53 <AmpEater> how often do you backup your wallet at that earning rate?
2554 2011-03-13 21:41:45 <ArtForz> daily
2555 2011-03-13 21:42:01 <AmpEater> you keeping or selling those coins?
2556 2011-03-13 21:42:11 <ArtForz> mostly selling nowadays
2557 2011-03-13 21:42:55 <AmpEater> interesting...
2558 2011-03-13 21:42:58 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: do you sell on mtgox for usd or where?
2559 2011-03-13 21:43:05 <ArtForz> yes
2560 2011-03-13 21:43:46 <AmpEater> I'm done playing 20 questions, thanks for the info
2561 2011-03-13 21:44:04 <theorbtwo> ArtForz: Where is your blog?
2562 2011-03-13 21:44:08 <AmpEater> <--looks at GPUs and cries
2563 2011-03-13 21:44:14 <ArtForz> dont have one
2564 2011-03-13 21:44:55 <TD> ;;bc,calc 1000 1
2565 2011-03-13 21:44:56 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2566 2011-03-13 21:45:00 <TD> huh
2567 2011-03-13 21:45:18 <AmpEater> ;;bc,stats
2568 2011-03-13 21:45:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113436 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1475 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 47 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67513.97877858
2569 2011-03-13 21:45:28 <TD> what's the syntax for difficulty calcs again?
2570 2011-03-13 21:46:15 <AmpEater> ;;bc,gen 5400000
2571 2011-03-13 21:46:17 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 71.28481664 BTC per day and 2.97020069333 BTC per hour.
2572 2011-03-13 21:46:22 <TD> ;;bc,calcd 1000 1
2573 2011-03-13 21:46:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 1 hour, 11 minutes, and 34 seconds
2574 2011-03-13 21:46:24 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2575 2011-03-13 21:46:37 <theorbtwo> I love how it says "about", and then gives it to the nearest second.
2576 2011-03-13 21:47:07 <ArtForz> well, at least it doesnt output microseconds ...
2577 2011-03-13 21:47:16 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2578 2011-03-13 21:47:26 TD has joined
2579 2011-03-13 21:49:30 <theorbtwo> ;;bc,gen 1600
2580 2011-03-13 21:49:31 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1600 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 0.0211214271526 BTC per day and 0.000880059464691 BTC per hour.
2581 2011-03-13 21:49:49 <theorbtwo> ;;bc,gen 16000
2582 2011-03-13 21:49:50 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 16000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 0.211214271526 BTC per day and 0.00880059464691 BTC per hour.
2583 2011-03-13 21:49:55 <theorbtwo> Ah, that's better.
2584 2011-03-13 21:50:02 <theorbtwo> (And that's why I do pooled mining!)
2585 2011-03-13 21:50:07 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 400000
2586 2011-03-13 21:50:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5.28035678815 BTC per day and 0.220014866173 BTC per hour.
2587 2011-03-13 21:51:46 <afed> ;;bc,gen 1500000
2588 2011-03-13 21:51:47 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 19.8013379556 BTC per day and 0.825055748148 BTC per hour.
2589 2011-03-13 21:52:13 <mmagic> ;;bc,gend 1500000 [bc,estimate]
2590 2011-03-13 21:52:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1500000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 67513.97877858, is 22.3471138594 BTC per day and 0.931129744143 BTC per hour.
2591 2011-03-13 21:58:02 <Strom> ;;bc,gen 240000
2592 2011-03-13 21:58:03 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 240000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3.16821407289 BTC per day and 0.132008919704 BTC per hour.
2593 2011-03-13 22:00:42 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2594 2011-03-13 22:03:07 <theorbtwo> Strom: Thanks for running the pool!
2595 2011-03-13 22:03:42 <BlueMatt> theorbtwo: dont you mean slush?
2596 2011-03-13 22:03:54 <theorbtwo> Oh, hell. Yes, I probably did.
2597 2011-03-13 22:04:13 phantomcircuit has joined
2598 2011-03-13 22:05:03 <slush> theorbtwo: you're welcome :)
2599 2011-03-13 22:07:35 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2600 2011-03-13 22:07:55 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2601 2011-03-13 22:09:15 bk128 has joined
2602 2011-03-13 22:09:17 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
2603 2011-03-13 22:09:17 bk128 has joined
2604 2011-03-13 22:13:18 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2605 2011-03-13 22:17:37 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2606 2011-03-13 22:17:48 <slush> just for crosscheck - 650W PSU for mobo + 2x5870 is ok, right?
2607 2011-03-13 22:18:54 <slush> I'm currently running PC + 5970 + 2x5870 on 850W, so it should work ;)
2608 2011-03-13 22:19:42 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2609 2011-03-13 22:20:06 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2610 2011-03-13 22:20:30 doublec has joined
2611 2011-03-13 22:20:38 da2ce7 has joined
2612 2011-03-13 22:21:26 jostmey has joined
2613 2011-03-13 22:24:32 frewsxcv has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2614 2011-03-13 22:29:01 * genjix facepalms
2615 2011-03-13 22:29:26 <genjix> spent a whole day on a problem, and one simple assumption hugely simplifies everything.
2616 2011-03-13 22:30:33 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2617 2011-03-13 22:31:23 <Necr0s> I ran a single 5970 + i7 on a 500w psu.
2618 2011-03-13 22:32:16 <Necr0s> Now it's a dual 5970 box with the same 17 and a 1200w psu. Surprisingly it only drawd 620w from the 120v side running with the GPUs at full load.
2619 2011-03-13 22:32:28 <Necr0s> Measured with one of those kill-a-watt things.
2620 2011-03-13 22:33:08 dwdollar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2621 2011-03-13 22:33:09 lfm has joined
2622 2011-03-13 22:33:11 <Necr0s> I thought each 5970 used 300w when loaded up at the stock clock speed.
2623 2011-03-13 22:33:34 <ArtForz> nah
2624 2011-03-13 22:33:49 <Necr0s> It's a Silver psu, so it's like...88% efficient I think.
2625 2011-03-13 22:33:53 <ArtForz> more like 260 at stock clock
2626 2011-03-13 22:34:25 <ArtForz> ~300 OCed to 850 or so
2627 2011-03-13 22:34:35 <slush> thanks
2628 2011-03-13 22:34:43 <slush> so I'll try it
2629 2011-03-13 22:35:23 <luke-jr> xelister: I saw no please. I also never said I remotely liked the USA
2630 2011-03-13 22:35:37 <luke-jr> Also, I don't sit on IRC constantly.
2631 2011-03-13 22:35:43 jostmey has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2632 2011-03-13 22:39:12 frewsxcv has joined
2633 2011-03-13 22:39:18 frewsxcv has quit (Changing host)
2634 2011-03-13 22:39:18 frewsxcv has joined
2635 2011-03-13 22:43:27 <osearth> I have been searching all day for a step by step explanation of just the math involved in Generating keys.
2636 2011-03-13 22:43:30 <genjix> is brucewagner on irc?
2637 2011-03-13 22:43:50 <genjix> osearth: search for the bash script on forums which shows how its done
2638 2011-03-13 22:43:56 <genjix> posted by grondilu
2639 2011-03-13 22:44:12 <luke-jr> lol
2640 2011-03-13 22:45:05 <subpar> 13/03/2011 17:43:58, long poll: new block <== it works it seems
2641 2011-03-13 22:45:32 <genjix> ;;bc,help
2642 2011-03-13 22:45:33 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
2643 2011-03-13 22:46:05 <luke-jr> subpar: â
2644 2011-03-13 22:46:12 <subpar> ;;bc;nextttarget
2645 2011-03-13 22:46:12 <gribble> Error: "bc;nextttarget" is not a valid command.
2646 2011-03-13 22:46:21 <subpar> ;;bc;nexttarget
2647 2011-03-13 22:46:21 <gribble> Error: "bc;nexttarget" is not a valid command.
2648 2011-03-13 22:46:31 <subpar> ;;bc nexttarget
2649 2011-03-13 22:46:31 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
2650 2011-03-13 22:46:31 <ArtForz> ;;bc,estimate
2651 2011-03-13 22:46:33 <gribble> 67468.37412422
2652 2011-03-13 22:46:33 dirtyfilthy has joined
2653 2011-03-13 22:46:39 * subpar grubles
2654 2011-03-13 22:46:41 <osearth> thank you
2655 2011-03-13 22:46:53 <ArtForz> seems nexttarget is broken
2656 2011-03-13 22:46:56 <ArtForz> ;;bc,nexttarget
2657 2011-03-13 22:46:56 <gribble> 114911
2658 2011-03-13 22:46:57 <subpar> ;;bc,nexttarget
2659 2011-03-13 22:46:57 <gribble> 114911
2660 2011-03-13 22:46:58 <ArtForz> nope
2661 2011-03-13 22:47:00 <subpar> there
2662 2011-03-13 22:47:04 <subpar> , not ;
2663 2011-03-13 22:47:10 <ArtForz> yea
2664 2011-03-13 22:47:14 * subpar slaps himself
2665 2011-03-13 22:48:04 dwdollar has joined
2666 2011-03-13 22:50:36 <slush> subpar: do you have correct time on your pc?
2667 2011-03-13 22:50:53 <subpar> yep
2668 2011-03-13 22:51:52 <subpar> slush: using the new client with [Tycho]'s pool
2669 2011-03-13 22:51:53 <slush> oh, OK, I'm blind
2670 2011-03-13 22:52:04 <slush> no, I'm using new client with my pool :)
2671 2011-03-13 22:52:24 <subpar> that was, I am using the new client with...
2672 2011-03-13 22:52:27 <subpar> heh
2673 2011-03-13 22:52:46 <subpar> I have a much better link to deepbit
2674 2011-03-13 22:52:55 <genjix> ;;bc,seen MagicalTux
2675 2011-03-13 22:52:56 <gribble> Error: "bc,seen" is not a valid command.
2676 2011-03-13 22:53:05 <BlueMatt> ;;seen MagicalTux
2677 2011-03-13 22:53:05 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 12 hours, 18 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> da2ce7: I live within Tokyo23, going home from work takes ~45 minutes by walking normally
2678 2011-03-13 22:53:09 <subpar> no stale shares - always get some stale shares with your pool
2679 2011-03-13 22:53:14 <genjix> ;;help
2680 2011-03-13 22:53:15 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2681 2011-03-13 22:53:19 <subpar> might be a factor of hash size as well?
2682 2011-03-13 22:53:24 <genjix> ;;notify genjix test
2683 2011-03-13 22:53:25 <gribble> Error: "notify" is not a valid command.
2684 2011-03-13 22:53:35 <mmagic> hrm..
2685 2011-03-13 22:53:37 <mmagic> !bc,stats
2686 2011-03-13 22:53:43 <BlueMatt> genjix: ;;later tell ...?
2687 2011-03-13 22:53:49 <genjix> thanks
2688 2011-03-13 22:53:56 <genjix> wont use it tho :p
2689 2011-03-13 22:54:07 <luke-jr> what new client?
2690 2011-03-13 22:54:11 <luke-jr> miner or UI or â?
2691 2011-03-13 22:54:20 <subpar> new version of poclbm
2692 2011-03-13 22:54:21 <slush> subpar: well, afaik, tycho's pool isn't reporting stale shares at all ;)
2693 2011-03-13 22:54:33 <luke-jr> subpar: does it work with normal bitcoind?
2694 2011-03-13 22:54:35 <slush> subpar: he does analysis ex-post, after round ending
2695 2011-03-13 22:54:49 <subpar> slush: that is a good reason for never getting any then ;-)
2696 2011-03-13 22:54:53 <slush> ;)
2697 2011-03-13 22:55:28 <subpar> luke-jr: not sure - works fine with deepbiy
2698 2011-03-13 22:55:42 <subpar> deepbit and it seems slush is using it as well
2699 2011-03-13 22:55:43 <slush> luke-jr no, it needs support on server side
2700 2011-03-13 22:55:57 <subpar> so pools only
2701 2011-03-13 22:56:06 <subpar> or - those 2 pools
2702 2011-03-13 22:56:06 <slush> well, patch for bitcoind is possible
2703 2011-03-13 22:56:30 <slush> but nobody did it
2704 2011-03-13 22:56:59 <subpar> I just want an updated gui - can't seem to get this new version to work with Kiv's last gui release
2705 2011-03-13 22:57:14 <slush> he promised that he will update it
2706 2011-03-13 22:57:36 <luke-jr> subpar: GUI for minerâ
2707 2011-03-13 22:57:38 <subpar> I am sure he will - for now command prompts
2708 2011-03-13 22:57:51 <subpar> luke-jr: yes, gui for poclbm
2709 2011-03-13 22:57:56 <luke-jr> *why*?
2710 2011-03-13 22:58:00 <luke-jr> what is there to interact with?
2711 2011-03-13 22:58:03 <slush> luke-jr why not?
2712 2011-03-13 22:58:07 <subpar> exactly
2713 2011-03-13 22:58:21 <slush> luke-jr command line parameters, interactive starting/stopping etc
2714 2011-03-13 22:58:25 <luke-jr> slush: because there's nothing to interact with, and it makes the display unusable?
2715 2011-03-13 22:58:31 <slush> luke-jr I like it, but don't use it :)
2716 2011-03-13 22:58:40 <luke-jr> â¦
2717 2011-03-13 22:58:41 <subpar> tracks shares, etc.
2718 2011-03-13 22:59:02 <luke-jr> subpar: if you ever want a new *bitcoin* GUI, try Spesmilo :D
2719 2011-03-13 22:59:10 <slush> and I love the tray icon, much better than terminal window in task bar
2720 2011-03-13 22:59:13 noagendamarket has joined
2721 2011-03-13 22:59:38 <luke-jr> slush: I don't even bother to leave it visible
2722 2011-03-13 22:59:44 <luke-jr> screen works fine
2723 2011-03-13 23:00:05 <slush> luke-jr screen works on WIndows? ;)
2724 2011-03-13 23:00:11 <luke-jr> slush: does the GUI support a different display than the miner is using?
2725 2011-03-13 23:00:16 <luke-jr> no, who uses Windows?
2726 2011-03-13 23:00:49 <slush> luke-jr as it is starting separate miner processes, I don't see reason why it should not work
2727 2011-03-13 23:00:53 <subpar> yeah - I use screen on the linux box - but main miners on on this win7 box
2728 2011-03-13 23:00:54 <slush> luke-jr but I didn't try it
2729 2011-03-13 23:01:25 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2730 2011-03-13 23:01:39 <slush> luke-jr I understand that you don't need tray icon & other stuff, but for most common users, command line is huge 'wtf'
2731 2011-03-13 23:01:53 <slush> I don't see the reason why it should not be like boinc manager
2732 2011-03-13 23:02:10 <slush> (except that nobody did it)
2733 2011-03-13 23:02:17 * subpar nods
2734 2011-03-13 23:06:09 Spenvo has joined
2735 2011-03-13 23:06:14 <Spenvo> #witcoin
2736 2011-03-13 23:06:18 <Spenvo> woops sry
2737 2011-03-13 23:12:19 <luke-jr> slush: mining isn't for most common users âº
2738 2011-03-13 23:13:16 <slush> luke-jr well, it is good advertisement for bitcoin :)
2739 2011-03-13 23:14:37 <luke-jr> not if people expect to get anything with it
2740 2011-03-13 23:14:43 <luke-jr> then it's a big disappointment
2741 2011-03-13 23:16:04 <molecular> not necessarily, they might be disappointed at first, but maybe they learned enough about bitcoin to see the advantages and then just buy some
2742 2011-03-13 23:16:47 <blarzong> moar coin
2743 2011-03-13 23:16:57 BitterTea has joined
2744 2011-03-13 23:16:57 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
2745 2011-03-13 23:16:57 BitterTea has joined
2746 2011-03-13 23:17:25 <luke-jr> molecular: if there are any advantages, to that person
2747 2011-03-13 23:17:56 <osearth> anyone heard or seen a Coin Generator in PHP or Ruby or Javascript. First day still but I can't seem to connect how the client generates solutions.
2748 2011-03-13 23:18:05 <luke-jr> osearth: it doesn't.
2749 2011-03-13 23:18:18 <luke-jr> osearth: what video card do you have?
2750 2011-03-13 23:18:49 <luke-jr> PHP/Ruby/JS are way too slow to be of any use for mining
2751 2011-03-13 23:18:58 <luke-jr> though I think someone did write a JS miner for the lulz
2752 2011-03-13 23:19:06 <BlueMatt> I believe Art did
2753 2011-03-13 23:19:36 <osearth> this is a laptop here but i have access to too many hosting boxes
2754 2011-03-13 23:19:38 <BlueMatt> Id like to see that put on google's homepage or similar and see how many GHash/s it would get
2755 2011-03-13 23:19:43 forrest`` is now known as forrestv
2756 2011-03-13 23:19:48 <luke-jr> osearth: CPUs are worthless for mining
2757 2011-03-13 23:19:58 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 10000000
2758 2011-03-13 23:19:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 9 hours, 5 minutes, and 25 seconds
2759 2011-03-13 23:20:05 <luke-jr> wait
2760 2011-03-13 23:20:08 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 10000
2761 2011-03-13 23:20:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 year, 1 week, 6 days, 18 hours, 17 minutes, and 41 seconds
2762 2011-03-13 23:20:27 <luke-jr> osearth: even the best CPU will only generate about 50 BTC in a year's time
2763 2011-03-13 23:20:34 <luke-jr> and you only get them 50 BTC at a time.
2764 2011-03-13 23:20:59 <luke-jr> osearth: mining is only profitable on good video cards
2765 2011-03-13 23:21:02 <osearth> thousands of them, working together. bitcoin drip
2766 2011-03-13 23:21:15 <luke-jr> osearth: thousands of them, cost much more in electricity
2767 2011-03-13 23:22:23 <luke-jr> if you already have a Radeon 5850 or better, it would be worth using that
2768 2011-03-13 23:22:49 <luke-jr> a single 5850 can outperform 25 high-end CPUs
2769 2011-03-13 23:23:16 <luke-jr> if you want to buy hardware solely for generating bitcoins, you *might* break even with numerous 5870
2770 2011-03-13 23:23:36 <osearth> Radeon HD 3470 in this thing
2771 2011-03-13 23:24:13 <luke-jr> that can't even mine
2772 2011-03-13 23:28:19 <aaa3> does the bitcoin inflation follow a logarithmic curve?
2773 2011-03-13 23:28:35 <sipa> exponential
2774 2011-03-13 23:28:40 <Necr0s> 50 btc in a year AT TODAY'S DIFFICULTY.
2775 2011-03-13 23:28:47 <da2ce7> 1/x
2776 2011-03-13 23:28:47 <TheKid> aa3 I believe so yes
2777 2011-03-13 23:28:56 <sipa> 50 BTC per block currently
2778 2011-03-13 23:29:01 <TheKid> definitely not exponential sipa
2779 2011-03-13 23:29:04 <sipa> after block 210000 it will be 25 BTC per block
2780 2011-03-13 23:29:08 <da2ce7> assimptotes at 21M BTC
2781 2011-03-13 23:29:11 <sipa> after block 420000 it will be 12.5 BTC per block
2782 2011-03-13 23:29:18 <sipa> after block 630000 it will be 6.25 BTC per block
2783 2011-03-13 23:29:20 <sipa> and so on
2784 2011-03-13 23:29:33 <luke-jr> it doesn't follow a curve
2785 2011-03-13 23:29:37 <BlueMatt> logarithmic but not smooth
2786 2011-03-13 23:29:42 <sipa> no, exponential!
2787 2011-03-13 23:29:57 <da2ce7> exponential decay
2788 2011-03-13 23:29:59 <sipa> yes
2789 2011-03-13 23:30:08 <Necr0s> difficulty 10000 takes twice as long on average to solve as difficulty 5000.
2790 2011-03-13 23:30:09 <da2ce7> but not smooth
2791 2011-03-13 23:30:18 <Necr0s> So it's linear in that regard.
2792 2011-03-13 23:30:25 <sipa> "twice as long" -> "twice as many hashes"
2793 2011-03-13 23:30:32 <Necr0s> yes
2794 2011-03-13 23:30:36 <TheKid> it is not exponential
2795 2011-03-13 23:30:41 <luke-jr> Necr0s: that's difficulty, not inflation
2796 2011-03-13 23:30:43 <TheKid> in terms of the reward you get
2797 2011-03-13 23:30:59 <sipa> the total is an approximation of 21M-exp(tau*time)
2798 2011-03-13 23:31:01 <Necr0s> They're linked.
2799 2011-03-13 23:31:08 <sipa> the total is an approximation of 21M-21M*exp(tau*time)
2800 2011-03-13 23:31:44 <sipa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_bitcoins_over_time.png
2801 2011-03-13 23:31:44 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: no difficulty is adjusted to always keep ~1 block / 10 minutes that has nothing to do with the block reward which changes every x blocks
2802 2011-03-13 23:32:14 <sipa> difficulty is adjusted every 2016 blocks
2803 2011-03-13 23:32:20 <sipa> subsidy is adjusted every 210000 blocks
2804 2011-03-13 23:32:21 <da2ce7> % growth is 1/(mined)
2805 2011-03-13 23:33:01 <blarzong> supercoin
2806 2011-03-13 23:35:42 <luke-jr> sipa: how does that work?
2807 2011-03-13 23:35:59 <sipa> how does what work?
2808 2011-03-13 23:36:09 <luke-jr> how is tau related to it?
2809 2011-03-13 23:36:21 <osearth> i turned one on it says 4Mh/s
2810 2011-03-13 23:36:25 <sipa> tau is just some constant i didn't bother to calculate now
2811 2011-03-13 23:36:29 <luke-jr> â¦
2812 2011-03-13 23:36:34 <luke-jr> tau has a formal definition :P
2813 2011-03-13 23:36:40 <osearth> wonder what 170 more of those will get me
2814 2011-03-13 23:36:46 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 4000
2815 2011-03-13 23:36:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 2 years, 30 weeks, 6 days, 21 hours, 44 minutes, and 13 seconds
2816 2011-03-13 23:36:48 <sipa> yes, it's the time constant of an exponential increase
2817 2011-03-13 23:36:55 <sipa> and that's how i'm using it :)
2818 2011-03-13 23:36:57 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 684000
2819 2011-03-13 23:36:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 684000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5 days, 12 hours, 53 minutes, and 56 seconds
2820 2011-03-13 23:37:39 <sipa> anyway, total_bitcoin = 21M*(1-exp(-0.000033*block_number)), approximately
2821 2011-03-13 23:37:55 <luke-jr> no, Ï = 2Ï
2822 2011-03-13 23:38:01 <osearth> what is 1mh/s is kphs?
2823 2011-03-13 23:38:18 <da2ce7> 1000
2824 2011-03-13 23:38:20 <luke-jr> osearth: ⦠learn SI
2825 2011-03-13 23:38:28 <sipa> it's just a symbol, all greek symbols are used for many different purposes in math, physics, sciences, ...
2826 2011-03-13 23:38:30 <luke-jr> or don't, actually
2827 2011-03-13 23:38:32 <luke-jr> SI sucks
2828 2011-03-13 23:38:37 <luke-jr> sipa: http://tauday.com/
2829 2011-03-13 23:38:42 <sipa> yes i've seen that
2830 2011-03-13 23:39:20 <sipa> but even if you accept that (which sounds reasonable), that doesn't mean tau won't be used for other purposes anymore
2831 2011-03-13 23:40:25 <sipa> osearth: actually, if i may nitpick, 1mh/s would be 0.000001kh/s :)
2832 2011-03-13 23:40:29 <luke-jr> I should demand they redo it in tonal
2833 2011-03-13 23:40:40 <sipa> 1Mh/s would be 1000kh/s
2834 2011-03-13 23:40:40 <osearth> so one box has CPU at 2,000ks and GPU at 4/mhs if i get all 170 running, do i win? ;]
2835 2011-03-13 23:40:52 <luke-jr> sipa++ for pointing out SI flaws :P
2836 2011-03-13 23:41:06 <luke-jr> osearth: no, you still fail
2837 2011-03-13 23:41:09 <sipa> it's not a flaw, it's optimal usage of different symbols ;)
2838 2011-03-13 23:41:15 <luke-jr> 1020 MH/s is not very much
2839 2011-03-13 23:41:22 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 1020000
2840 2011-03-13 23:41:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1020000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 days, 17 hours, 7 minutes, and 13 seconds
2841 2011-03-13 23:41:29 <luke-jr> osearth: you get 50 BTC every 3-4 days
2842 2011-03-13 23:41:35 <luke-jr> and spend like 200 BTC on electricity
2843 2011-03-13 23:43:04 <osearth> thats free, just borrowing it from a planet's uncertain future.. checking if 4mhs normal for radeon 9800
2844 2011-03-13 23:43:24 <luke-jr> Radeon 9800 can't mine â¦
2845 2011-03-13 23:47:42 <sipa> it's 4 Mh/s, not 4 mhs! </nitpickmode>
2846 2011-03-13 23:48:20 <Keefe> i like to say 4 mhps
2847 2011-03-13 23:48:29 <sipa> ok!
2848 2011-03-13 23:49:43 <osearth> it's ok, we're all nerds here ;]
2849 2011-03-13 23:50:31 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2850 2011-03-13 23:53:18 <sipa> Keefe: as long as you know that means milli hours per second (so any number but 0.2777... would be strange) :)
2851 2011-03-13 23:53:35 <blarzong> sharkenstein
2852 2011-03-13 23:53:59 <Keefe> hmm, so it should be Mhps?
2853 2011-03-13 23:55:13 <sipa> m=milli, M=mega, yes, if you want to be correct
2854 2011-03-13 23:55:18 <mmagic> ;;bc,stats
2855 2011-03-13 23:55:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113447 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1464 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 12 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67310.82420424
2856 2011-03-13 23:55:27 <sipa> but then, h already means hours, and p is actually pico :)
2857 2011-03-13 23:55:58 <sipa> but things like kbps are used for kilobit per second
2858 2011-03-13 23:56:00 <Keefe> p is per in mph and kph
2859 2011-03-13 23:56:34 <sipa> i prefer to use MH/s, actually, it's the least ambiguous :)
2860 2011-03-13 23:56:34 <Keefe> i suppose the clearest would be Mhash/s
2861 2011-03-13 23:56:37 <sipa> yes
2862 2011-03-13 23:56:41 <sipa> even better :)
2863 2011-03-13 23:57:11 <sipa> but it's not like anyone will be assuming you mean millihash per second :)
2864 2011-03-13 23:57:43 <blarzong> megaboots
2865 2011-03-13 23:57:51 <lfm> does he mean radeon 9800 or gforce 9800?
2866 2011-03-13 23:59:03 <sipa> nvidia 9800 would do a lot more than 4Mhash/s
2867 2011-03-13 23:59:36 <sipa> and 4Mhash/s sounds to me like he's cpu mining
2868 2011-03-13 23:59:40 <mmagic> 9600GT will so 14MHash/s
2869 2011-03-13 23:59:50 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc
2870 2011-03-13 23:59:51 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".