1 2011-03-14 00:00:43 <blarzong> ;;bc,stats
   2 2011-03-14 00:00:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113447 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1464 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 12 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67310.82420424
   3 2011-03-14 00:00:54 <luke-jr> we should use ᵇhash/sec :D
   4 2011-03-14 00:01:09 <luke-jr> then I have 4000 :P
   5 2011-03-14 00:01:27 <blarzong> im gonna need some coins
   6 2011-03-14 00:01:45 <luke-jr> blarzong: how many?
   7 2011-03-14 00:01:55 <lfm> blarzong: didnt you get your 5 bitcents?
   8 2011-03-14 00:02:51 <blarzong> yes i did thanks
   9 2011-03-14 00:02:58 <blarzong> i need 1.5 btc
  10 2011-03-14 00:03:03 <molecular> ;;bc,stats
  11 2011-03-14 00:03:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113447 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1464 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 12 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67310.82420424
  12 2011-03-14 00:03:14 <luke-jr> blarzong: what do you have to offer?
  13 2011-03-14 00:03:31 <molecular> blarzong, what do you need it for?
  14 2011-03-14 00:03:31 theorb has joined
  15 2011-03-14 00:04:02 <luke-jr> is Faucet open source? maybe I should run a Tonal Faucet giving out 40 TBC
  16 2011-03-14 00:04:08 <blarzong> im trying to convince my friend to start using btc, so he said if i send him some coin hell join
  17 2011-03-14 00:04:23 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  18 2011-03-14 00:04:26 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  19 2011-03-14 00:04:32 <luke-jr> blarzong: "join"?
  20 2011-03-14 00:05:00 <blarzong> yeah install the app and start trading
  21 2011-03-14 00:05:03 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  22 2011-03-14 00:05:21 Blitzboom has joined
  23 2011-03-14 00:05:21 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
  24 2011-03-14 00:05:21 Blitzboom has joined
  25 2011-03-14 00:06:20 <luke-jr> blarzong: I don't think we care, unless he has something to sell for bitcoins (like USD or Euro or services etc)
  26 2011-03-14 00:06:34 <luke-jr> and if he's asking you for a handout, he probably doesn't
  27 2011-03-14 00:07:08 <blarzong> luke-jr: he is a buyer more than a seller
  28 2011-03-14 00:07:19 <blarzong> obviously increasing the pool of users is beneficial to all
  29 2011-03-14 00:07:24 <sipa> well he can buy bitcoins on mtgox
  30 2011-03-14 00:07:31 <sipa> if he wants them
  31 2011-03-14 00:07:36 <luke-jr> blarzong: how is he going to buy, without money? :P
  32 2011-03-14 00:07:46 <luke-jr> sipa: that's selling USD ;)
  33 2011-03-14 00:07:54 <luke-jr> and MtGox is a PITA
  34 2011-03-14 00:07:54 <blarzong> luke-jr: why do you think he lacks money
  35 2011-03-14 00:08:07 <luke-jr> blarzong: because you can't get money without selling
  36 2011-03-14 00:08:24 <luke-jr> and he's asking you for a handout of a trivial amoutn
  37 2011-03-14 00:08:24 <blarzong> luke-jr: he has other currencies
  38 2011-03-14 00:08:37 <sipa> he can change other currencies for BTC
  39 2011-03-14 00:08:38 <blarzong> luke-jr: youre making a lot of incorrect assumptions
  40 2011-03-14 00:08:39 <luke-jr> blarzong: those are irrelevant here
  41 2011-03-14 00:08:53 <luke-jr> sipa: that'd be selling <other currency>
  42 2011-03-14 00:09:06 <blarzong> his price to board the bitcoin train is 1 btc
  43 2011-03-14 00:09:16 <blarzong> hes not interested in setting it up unless he gets a free coin
  44 2011-03-14 00:09:20 <luke-jr> blarzong: what does he offer us?
  45 2011-03-14 00:09:30 <blarzong> increased userbase
  46 2011-03-14 00:09:32 <luke-jr> what good does it do anyone if he doesn't set it up?
  47 2011-03-14 00:09:37 <Necr0s> Let him stay offboard then.
  48 2011-03-14 00:09:42 dirtyfilthy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
  49 2011-03-14 00:09:47 <luke-jr> you can't use it without selling first
  50 2011-03-14 00:09:54 <blarzong> luke-jr: you can buy
  51 2011-03-14 00:10:05 <blarzong> luke-jr: you are making invalida assumption about what he will do once has bitcoin installed
  52 2011-03-14 00:10:09 <luke-jr> blarzong: if you don't have any bitcoins, you can't buy anything with them
  53 2011-03-14 00:10:30 <blarzong> luke-jr: hes planning to buy some coins at some point in the future, provided he receives 1 free coin now
  54 2011-03-14 00:10:32 <Necr0s> Show him to the faucet.
  55 2011-03-14 00:10:43 <molecular> blarzong, that's stupid... if he has no other plans than to "join", that's really not helping that much, is it?
  56 2011-03-14 00:11:00 <molecular> yeah, that's what the faucet's for
  57 2011-03-14 00:11:03 <blarzong> molecular: he will join, and then later purchase bitcoins
  58 2011-03-14 00:11:11 <molecular> why not purchase them now?
  59 2011-03-14 00:11:22 <blarzong> so clearly increased demand for btc benefits everyone who has btc
  60 2011-03-14 00:11:25 <luke-jr> blarzong: I will sell him 1 BTC, for a contract to purchase more at a specific rate.
  61 2011-03-14 00:11:36 <molecular> he could just send 2 dollar bills to that guy in canade, which I did to get my first coins.
  62 2011-03-14 00:11:38 <blarzong> molecular: he doesnt know much about it, so theres risk in paying cash for an unknown
  63 2011-03-14 00:11:41 <Necr0s> There is no "join" anyway.
  64 2011-03-14 00:11:47 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  65 2011-03-14 00:11:50 <blarzong> yes there is Necr0s
  66 2011-03-14 00:12:16 <molecular> so there's the risk that he _wont_ by more btc in the future?
  67 2011-03-14 00:12:18 <blarzong> luke-jr: what rate?
  68 2011-03-14 00:12:38 <blarzong> molecular: yes, but the rick is de minimus (1 btc is after all a token amount)
  69 2011-03-14 00:12:44 <luke-jr> blarzong: I will pay him 1 BTC, in exchange for an agreement that he will buy 50 BTC from me within the next month at $1.25 USD each
  70 2011-03-14 00:13:01 <blarzong> luke-jr: that would be a losing proposition
  71 2011-03-14 00:13:05 <osearth> best way to mass deploy without bothering users is probably some form of screen saver implementation. too bad there's not one that will call the users real preferred screen saver
  72 2011-03-14 00:13:14 <sipa> osearth: no it's not
  73 2011-03-14 00:13:14 <luke-jr> blarzong: if you know the future, it might be
  74 2011-03-14 00:13:16 <lfm> depend what the future price will be then
  75 2011-03-14 00:13:19 da2ce7 has quit ()
  76 2011-03-14 00:13:35 dirtyfilthy has joined
  77 2011-03-14 00:13:39 <molecular> blarzong, it took me 2 friggin weeks to get my first BTC, I'm not givin it away! (kinda like uncle scrooge)
  78 2011-03-14 00:13:41 <luke-jr> I'm obviously betting that it won't go over $1.25 in the next month
  79 2011-03-14 00:13:42 <sipa> osearth: it's cheaper to just buy them
  80 2011-03-14 00:13:46 <blarzong> molecular:  hehe!
  81 2011-03-14 00:14:15 <molecular> hehe, the good times back in klondike ;)
  82 2011-03-14 00:14:24 <slush> osearth: there is mining screensaver
  83 2011-03-14 00:14:27 <sipa> osearth: and bitcoin is not about mining, that's just some small part of it, which will unfortunately be only viable for a decreasing group of people who want to invest in it
  84 2011-03-14 00:14:28 <blarzong> luke-jr: the market doesn't expect it to go anywhere near 1.25.. so your proposal wouldn't be favorable to anybody's risk asessment
  85 2011-03-14 00:14:31 <slush> osearth: if that was a question
  86 2011-03-14 00:15:03 <luke-jr> blarzong: where is that market analysis?
  87 2011-03-14 00:15:06 <slush> osearth: but yes, I become dislike the idea that mining is the best way to introduce bitcoins to users
  88 2011-03-14 00:15:16 <luke-jr> I certainly expect that it will go near $1.25
  89 2011-03-14 00:15:18 <luke-jr> just not over
  90 2011-03-14 00:15:43 <blarzong> luke-jr: i will take that bet
  91 2011-03-14 00:15:48 <slush> osearth: much better is don't say anything about mining on the beginning; and then start about it as about "confirmating transactions by cpu" :)
  92 2011-03-14 00:15:51 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  93 2011-03-14 00:15:57 <blarzong> i will sell you 500 btc for 1.25 in 1 month
  94 2011-03-14 00:16:04 <luke-jr> slush: the problem, IMO, is that for most people "free money" is the only real incentive to use bitcoin
  95 2011-03-14 00:16:09 Blitzboom has joined
  96 2011-03-14 00:16:19 <luke-jr> blarzong: I said I don't expect it to go over.
  97 2011-03-14 00:16:31 <slush> luke-jr then I think it is no real trouble if they don't join us :)
  98 2011-03-14 00:16:31 <luke-jr> blarzong: also, I don't have that much to bet
  99 2011-03-14 00:16:39 <blarzong> luke-jr: right, so for you to make a profit it has to be 1.24999, so i will sell it to you at $1.24
 100 2011-03-14 00:16:46 <luke-jr> slush: then bitcoin will never succeed :/
 101 2011-03-14 00:16:58 <blarzong> how much would you like to buy at $1.24?
 102 2011-03-14 00:17:04 <blarzong> heck.. even $1.20
 103 2011-03-14 00:17:15 <slush> luke-jr I don't think so. Today I "joined" one friend, never said him anything about mining
 104 2011-03-14 00:17:18 <luke-jr> blarzong: make it $1.15 and I might bite
 105 2011-03-14 00:17:29 <blarzong> hmm
 106 2011-03-14 00:17:35 <blarzong> ok $1.15
 107 2011-03-14 00:17:38 <luke-jr> slush: one person is not a majority
 108 2011-03-14 00:17:44 <slush> luke-jr many times I started with mining at first and people rejected that as crazy
 109 2011-03-14 00:17:56 <luke-jr> blarzong: will you use clearcoin?
 110 2011-03-14 00:17:59 <slush> luke-jr of course, I'm talking about bitcoin with many people
 111 2011-03-14 00:18:12 <slush> and testing more strategies how to attach them ;)
 112 2011-03-14 00:18:16 <blarzong> luke-jr: sure
 113 2011-03-14 00:18:16 <lfm> blarzong: and luke-jr you prooly should have an escrow for that
 114 2011-03-14 00:18:39 * luke-jr ponders
 115 2011-03-14 00:19:07 <luke-jr> blarzong: this is contract to buy, not option, right?
 116 2011-03-14 00:19:14 <blarzong> yeah
 117 2011-03-14 00:19:33 kabo69 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 118 2011-03-14 00:19:35 <luke-jr> I'd like to say 100-200, but I can only risk 25 I think
 119 2011-03-14 00:19:46 <luke-jr> 25 BTC so $28.75
 120 2011-03-14 00:20:00 <blarzong> ok
 121 2011-03-14 00:20:29 <luke-jr> blarzong: please deposit to clearcoin and send the link to the email I PM you
 122 2011-03-14 00:21:02 <blarzong> ok, but you have to deposit $28.75 into cc as well
 123 2011-03-14 00:21:28 <luke-jr> CC doesn't work like that.
 124 2011-03-14 00:21:59 <lfm> ya, you need a full escrow
 125 2011-03-14 00:22:34 <molecular> if both parties have the money currently they can just make the deal now, no?
 126 2011-03-14 00:25:43 <blarzong> how can he ensure i will pay up if im the loser
 127 2011-03-14 00:26:06 <blarzong> or he will pay up if hes the loser
 128 2011-03-14 00:26:21 <blarzong> in the end, one party will give the other the difference in btc
 129 2011-03-14 00:27:21 <blarzong> i think someone on the forum said they were developing a market with ricardian contracts you could transact
 130 2011-03-14 00:27:46 kabo69 has joined
 131 2011-03-14 00:29:02 <luke-jr> molecular: USD today is worth more BTC than USD in a motnh
 132 2011-03-14 00:29:22 <molecular> are you doing a trade or a bet?
 133 2011-03-14 00:29:47 * luke-jr wonders how long until someone begins offering 1-3 year option contracts
 134 2011-03-14 00:29:53 <Necr0s> A contract to trade at a later time, yes?
 135 2011-03-14 00:29:59 <luke-jr> molecular: kindof a bet
 136 2011-03-14 00:30:18 <molecular> your basically making contract to make a trade @1.15 at a certain point in the future?
 137 2011-03-14 00:30:46 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 138 2011-03-14 00:30:55 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
 139 2011-03-14 00:30:56 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.918,"low":0.8898,"vol":660,"buy":0.891,"sell":0.916,"last":0.8925}}
 140 2011-03-14 00:31:10 <blarzong> this is the first btc futures contract
 141 2011-03-14 00:31:28 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 142 2011-03-14 00:31:33 <Netsniper> someone plz send bitcoins to 1Cq6LAnviFR2hF2a85rM6J31TD1KhRmRdr so i can buy gas and food to work this week. kthx!   :D
 143 2011-03-14 00:31:51 <mmagic> i "loan" you some btc, and you immediately sell them at current prices. in X time, you then give me back my btc (perhaps plus some amount of BTC greater than the original). you are betting that BTC might go down in the future so you make money on the deal, and I make BTC on the deal. meanwhile, you also get the use of the money.
 144 2011-03-14 00:31:54 <molecular> which gas station accepts bitcoin?
 145 2011-03-14 00:32:10 <blarzong> if btc is worth only $1 in a month, he has to send me 28.75 btc. if otoh, btc is worth $1.30 in a month, i have to give him 22.12 btc
 146 2011-03-14 00:32:19 <Necr0s> short selling
 147 2011-03-14 00:32:38 <blarzong> we only care about the difference...
 148 2011-03-14 00:32:38 <molecular> mmagic, that was my point of critique: if both parties have to put the money into an escrow _now_, this doesn't make sense
 149 2011-03-14 00:32:40 <Netsniper> molecular: any of them after i convert them to local currency
 150 2011-03-14 00:32:44 <Necr0s> is what mmagic describes
 151 2011-03-14 00:32:51 <luke-jr> mmagic: that sounds like usury
 152 2011-03-14 00:33:46 Kiv has joined
 153 2011-03-14 00:33:47 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 154 2011-03-14 00:33:47 <Necr0s> With "short interest" being chharged.
 155 2011-03-14 00:34:01 <molecular> Netsniper, what are you working on?
 156 2011-03-14 00:34:08 <mmagic> it's a form of contract trade, as it has a term and usually the lender of the commodity/stock/btc/whatever basically doesn't lose anything but the potential for selling it at a greater profit later on in the event it goes up in the midterm.
 157 2011-03-14 00:34:09 <luke-jr> Netsniper: you can't buy gas/food with bitcoin yet
 158 2011-03-14 00:34:35 sneak has joined
 159 2011-03-14 00:34:59 <mmagic> molecular: is someone trying to figure out a safer way to short sell?
 160 2011-03-14 00:35:01 sneak is now known as Guest51520
 161 2011-03-14 00:35:16 <Netsniper> molecular: i have a lawn  service - i just need gas money to get started
 162 2011-03-14 00:35:25 <blarzong> 25 - ((25 * 1.15) / X)    <-- X = future value of btc in usd
 163 2011-03-14 00:35:33 <Netsniper> luke-jr: i traded quite a bit last year for food, gas, etc
 164 2011-03-14 00:35:45 <blarzong> if negative, i win, if positive, he wins
 165 2011-03-14 00:36:18 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 166 2011-03-14 00:36:24 <Netsniper> i accept bitcoins as payment as well
 167 2011-03-14 00:36:58 <blarzong> lets assume we allow the range $0.50 usd and $1.50 usd... then i either win 32.5 btc, or he wins 5.8 btc
 168 2011-03-14 00:37:37 <blarzong> but escrowing now would tie up more from his side than my side
 169 2011-03-14 00:37:49 <Spenvo> if i may interject: my post is doing well on hacker news.  it's of BTC sportsbet.  the link has a URL to my post at the top. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2320621
 170 2011-03-14 00:37:52 Bosma has joined
 171 2011-03-14 00:38:06 <forrestv> the block list downloaded when a client is first initialized - does it actually contain all transactions? not just a hash of htem?
 172 2011-03-14 00:38:09 <forrestv> them*
 173 2011-03-14 00:38:25 <forrestv> that doesn't seem very scalable ...
 174 2011-03-14 00:38:30 <blarzong> luke-jr: until we have ricardian contracts in place it will have to be a gentlemans bet..
 175 2011-03-14 00:39:02 <blarzong> otherwise i can escrow 5.8btc, but youd have to escrow 32.5 btc
 176 2011-03-14 00:39:26 <blarzong> unless we escrow in USD
 177 2011-03-14 00:40:21 <molecular> Netsniper, will you pay back once you make money with your lawn service?
 178 2011-03-14 00:40:35 <justmoon> forrestv: don't know the answer to your question (I think all transactions are included with some garbage collections for old ones) but you can find info on scalability here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
 179 2011-03-14 00:40:50 <Netsniper> molecular: yes, i can
 180 2011-03-14 00:41:56 <blarzong> luke-jr: lets both escrow 16.25 btc and settle up in 1 month up to that amount
 181 2011-03-14 00:42:07 <molecular> It's quite hard to anonymously lend money... need loads of trust
 182 2011-03-14 00:43:03 <blarzong> we really want to escrow in USD for this tho
 183 2011-03-14 00:43:06 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
 184 2011-03-14 00:43:15 Cusipzzz has joined
 185 2011-03-14 00:43:44 <blarzong> the up/down is equal in USD, but obviously he owes me more btc if he loses than i would owe him for an equal rise (since it will be worth more after going up)
 186 2011-03-14 00:43:48 ovatork has joined
 187 2011-03-14 00:43:54 <ovatork> can someone answer a question for me?
 188 2011-03-14 00:44:05 <osearth> if that was it, Yes.
 189 2011-03-14 00:44:11 <BurtyB> calling all mind readers :)
 190 2011-03-14 00:44:13 <osearth> Next please, move along
 191 2011-03-14 00:44:40 <osearth> ovatork: will i have to ask the question as well? :P
 192 2011-03-14 00:44:53 <blarzong> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3844.0
 193 2011-03-14 00:45:09 <ovatork> when miners are sitting there plugging away, hashing hashing hashing
 194 2011-03-14 00:45:28 <ovatork> what is changing in the hash input, that results in a different output.. thousands/millions of times/second
 195 2011-03-14 00:45:44 <ArtForz> nNonce
 196 2011-03-14 00:45:56 <ArtForz> a simple 32 bit counter
 197 2011-03-14 00:46:23 <ArtForz> every second nTime (unix timestamp) is updated and nNonce reset
 198 2011-03-14 00:46:34 <ArtForz> so thats fine for up to ~4Gh/s
 199 2011-03-14 00:47:11 <ArtForz> beyond that you have to fiddle with bnExtraNonce in the coinbase transaction
 200 2011-03-14 00:47:15 <sipa> and everytime a new getwork() is done, a new nExtraNonce is used in the generation transaction, resulting in a new 256-bit merkle root from the transactions
 201 2011-03-14 00:47:24 <ArtForz> yep
 202 2011-03-14 00:47:32 <sipa> right, bn
 203 2011-03-14 00:48:26 <ArtForz> so a single getwork node could handle up to ~512Gh/s without looping bnExtraNonce if miners used up the whole nNonce range
 204 2011-03-14 00:49:13 <sipa> which most dont'
 205 2011-03-14 00:49:17 <sipa> don't
 206 2011-03-14 00:49:49 <ArtForz> I think with the new long work stuff they should be able to
 207 2011-03-14 00:49:57 ovatork has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 208 2011-03-14 00:53:08 <phantomcircuit> wait most miners dont use up the nonce?
 209 2011-03-14 00:53:10 <phantomcircuit> wat
 210 2011-03-14 00:53:22 <ArtForz> nope
 211 2011-03-14 00:53:38 <JFK911> where can i exchange btc for östmark?  do i have to change btc to bananas first?
 212 2011-03-14 00:54:15 <blarzong> does anyone want to buy a btc futures contract
 213 2011-03-14 00:56:34 da2ce7 has joined
 214 2011-03-14 00:57:18 <luke-jr> blarzong: the whole point of it would be USD changing value in that time, so escrow defeats the purpose
 215 2011-03-14 00:58:19 <luke-jr> forrestv: that's a limitation of the current pre-1.0 bitcoind wallet
 216 2011-03-14 00:59:06 <blarzong> luke-jr: thats right.. we need a usd escrow or if we simply set the range +- $0.65 then i escrow 9.03 btc and you escrow 32.5  (our max loss)
 217 2011-03-14 00:59:38 <blarzong> however, ricardian contracts solve this problem, which BlackMarket will be implemeting http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3844.20
 218 2011-03-14 01:01:05 <blarzong> at the end well settle the diff, and release the escrow
 219 2011-03-14 01:01:35 <slush> I'm curious if there is some space for 'programmable escrow'
 220 2011-03-14 01:01:53 <justmoon> slush: was wondering same thing
 221 2011-03-14 01:02:01 <luke-jr> blarzong: I assert that I should be trusted on my word. :P
 222 2011-03-14 01:02:15 <blarzong> luke-jr: youre a trustworthy guy, so thats fine w/me
 223 2011-03-14 01:02:16 <luke-jr> slush: I wish tx scripts could implement them.
 224 2011-03-14 01:02:18 <slush> two sides make an agreement on rules, then script them, enter to system and send money
 225 2011-03-14 01:02:49 <slush> luke-jr well, I'm not sure what can be covered by tx scripts
 226 2011-03-14 01:02:49 <blarzong> opentransactions does a lot of that
 227 2011-03-14 01:03:27 <luke-jr> slush: tx scripts have no access to either time or block height, which would be useful
 228 2011-03-14 01:03:56 <slush> luke-jr tx scripts cannot, for example, check paypal account for its deposit :)
 229 2011-03-14 01:04:03 <luke-jr> slush: I wonder if such a site could operate by charging random fees-- most things go gratis, but it randomly bills a fee
 230 2011-03-14 01:04:28 <slush> luke-jr I like clear rules; why make the fees random?
 231 2011-03-14 01:04:55 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 232 2011-03-14 01:05:11 <slush> I played with running python scripts in sandbox environment, maybe this is nice use case
 233 2011-03-14 01:05:11 <luke-jr> slush: it would be popular because it's "usually free"
 234 2011-03-14 01:05:19 <luke-jr> slush: plus, PayPal effectively does just that :P
 235 2011-03-14 01:05:24 <slush> hehe
 236 2011-03-14 01:05:26 <lfm> slu8sh to collect an average fee of 0.001 you charge one out of 10 customers a 0.01 fee
 237 2011-03-14 01:06:27 <jgarzik> slush: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=750.0
 238 2011-03-14 01:06:38 <slush> lfm: question is why not charge everyone with 0.01 fee ;)
 239 2011-03-14 01:07:36 <slush> jgarzik: I read this. Still think that classic web service may be more flexible
 240 2011-03-14 01:08:18 <lfm> slush you mean cheat? well I spoze you could try, you might get caught out tho
 241 2011-03-14 01:08:23 <osearth> never seen this onehttps://bitcoinbonus.com/
 242 2011-03-14 01:08:40 ovatork has joined
 243 2011-03-14 01:09:01 <luke-jr> slush: if you charge everyone .01 fee, people will see it as a .01 fee
 244 2011-03-14 01:09:15 <luke-jr> if you charge randomly, people will see it as a "usually free"
 245 2011-03-14 01:09:32 <slush> maybe, this is the last point in the whole stuff :)
 246 2011-03-14 01:10:04 <ovatork> i'm still trying to understand bitcoin
 247 2011-03-14 01:10:43 <ovatork> i'm wondering if y'all can help me. when a miner is hashing away, what is changing on each attempt that gives a different hash?
 248 2011-03-14 01:11:01 <slush> damn, the sandboxing stuff is lost somewhere in the universe
 249 2011-03-14 01:12:01 <blarzong> technically we have a forward contract, since no money is traded up front.. if it were a futures contract, i might pay up to 3.75 btc if i think the price wont go higher than $1 USD
 250 2011-03-14 01:12:11 <Tril> ovatork: it's called a nonce, an arbitary number
 251 2011-03-14 01:12:33 <slush> ovatork: nonce and possibly ntime
 252 2011-03-14 01:12:54 <BurtyB> ovatork err read the scroll :)
 253 2011-03-14 01:12:59 <slush> ntime is current unix timestmap
 254 2011-03-14 01:13:16 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 255 2011-03-14 01:13:20 <ovatork> so they hash.. hash fails. so a new nonce is generated and they try again? new nonce on each attempt at "flipping a coin"
 256 2011-03-14 01:13:40 phantomcircuit has joined
 257 2011-03-14 01:14:36 * sipa has working .bitkeys exporter!
 258 2011-03-14 01:15:13 <jgarzik> ovatork: correct
 259 2011-03-14 01:15:41 <blarzong> if you think btc will be at $1.05 in a month, you shoudl be willing to pay me up to 2.38 btc to buy the contract i have wiht luke-jr
 260 2011-03-14 01:15:41 <ovatork> ok
 261 2011-03-14 01:16:35 <ovatork> so.. everyone is in a race to generate a block that includes, a random number, all of the transactions since the last block, and one transaction with THE MINERS public key getting 50 bitcoins
 262 2011-03-14 01:17:01 <blarzong> luke-jr is a smart guy.. i think i will probably lose a few btc on this trade
 263 2011-03-14 01:17:10 <ovatork> whoever can find a nonce that makes the hash of that start with N-number of zero's, the block is created and spread across the network
 264 2011-03-14 01:17:15 <xelister> blarzong: hm? are you trading futures?
 265 2011-03-14 01:17:21 <blarzong> xelister: yeah
 266 2011-03-14 01:17:24 <xelister> cool
 267 2011-03-14 01:17:37 <xelister> you are future seling or buying btc?
 268 2011-03-14 01:18:11 <blarzong> we are both long on btc, but hes a bit longer than me
 269 2011-03-14 01:18:36 <blarzong> i am buying if the strike price is the current value
 270 2011-03-14 01:19:09 Xunie has joined
 271 2011-03-14 01:19:46 <xelister> ;; getrating blarzong
 272 2011-03-14 01:19:46 <gribble> Error: No such user in the database.
 273 2011-03-14 01:21:15 <phantomcircuit> ovatork, exactly
 274 2011-03-14 01:21:16 <xelister> blarzong: send you a pm.
 275 2011-03-14 01:21:34 <ovatork> awesome, that helps a lot. thank you.
 276 2011-03-14 01:21:34 <blarzong> cool
 277 2011-03-14 01:25:36 jnd has joined
 278 2011-03-14 01:27:42 <xelister> can you give me idae how your system would work?
 279 2011-03-14 01:27:53 <xelister> e.g. we target rate say 1.00 BTC,  and we are using base amount of 100 BTC, and payout day is in 30 days,
 280 2011-03-14 01:27:59 <xelister> if this day comes, and BTC is (on mtgox) @ 0.90 then what happens?  and what if it is @ 1.10 ?
 281 2011-03-14 01:28:06 <xelister> blarzong: ^
 282 2011-03-14 01:29:17 <blarzong> ok so if A agrees to buy 100 btc @ $1, then they settle up in 30 days
 283 2011-03-14 01:29:58 <blarzong> if it turns out to be $0.9, then A gives you $10 (or 11.11 btc if you settle in btc)
 284 2011-03-14 01:29:58 <slush> ;;say later Diablo-D3 Any chance to support long polling soon?
 285 2011-03-14 01:29:59 <gribble> Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
 286 2011-03-14 01:30:38 <slush> ;;say later Diablo-D3 Any chance to support long polling soon?
 287 2011-03-14 01:30:38 <gribble> Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
 288 2011-03-14 01:30:45 <blarzong> if its $1.10 B gives A $10 (or 9.09 btc if settling in btc)
 289 2011-03-14 01:30:59 <slush> ;;hostmask add
 290 2011-03-14 01:30:59 <gribble> Error: That operation cannot be done in a channel.
 291 2011-03-14 01:31:03 <slush> wtf
 292 2011-03-14 01:31:04 <xelister> slush: how long polling works/what it does? keeps RPC open to get new data without reopneing RPC connection? like json COMMET style?
 293 2011-03-14 01:31:14 <slush> yes
 294 2011-03-14 01:31:36 <slush> pool actively pushing new job when block come in
 295 2011-03-14 01:31:54 <xelister> that does not help the miners, only the pool itself?
 296 2011-03-14 01:32:08 <slush> that helps both
 297 2011-03-14 01:32:14 DoomDumas has quit ()
 298 2011-03-14 01:32:43 <slush> miner can turn off periodic askrate and don't produce so much stale shares
 299 2011-03-14 01:32:45 <xelister> how it improves the mining?
 300 2011-03-14 01:32:49 <slush> and pool has a little les load
 301 2011-03-14 01:32:49 <blarzong> what is the currency symbol for btc
 302 2011-03-14 01:32:50 <xelister> ah
 303 2011-03-14 01:33:07 <xelister> blarzong: an Unicode glyph of a Dong.  I think Ati invented this
 304 2011-03-14 01:33:36 <slush> it does not help for producing invalid blocks and does not fix stale shares absolutely as nothing is absolutely instant, but help a lot
 305 2011-03-14 01:34:25 <blarzong> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4003.0  looks like BlackMarket has a client ready
 306 2011-03-14 01:34:30 <blarzong> so you can trade such futures through their client
 307 2011-03-14 01:34:36 <slush> ;;later say
 308 2011-03-14 01:34:36 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "say" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
 309 2011-03-14 01:34:57 <slush> ;;later tell Diablo-D3 Any chance to support long polling soon?
 310 2011-03-14 01:34:57 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 311 2011-03-14 01:35:02 <slush> uff
 312 2011-03-14 01:35:49 <blarzong> you have to come up with a way to figure out what the closing price is if youre doing a contract
 313 2011-03-14 01:36:15 <blarzong> the median price (weighted by volume) across all exchanges is probably the best bet, but i dunno if they release those numbers
 314 2011-03-14 01:36:33 <xelister> blarzong: I think, the mediana (by volume) up to the amount that was set as base of trade
 315 2011-03-14 01:36:45 <blarzong> makes sense yeah
 316 2011-03-14 01:36:48 <jgarzik> slush: I can add to cpuminer, when your pool supports it :)
 317 2011-03-14 01:36:53 <xelister> :D
 318 2011-03-14 01:37:21 <blarzong> a futures market for btc could pump up the currency quite a bit
 319 2011-03-14 01:37:29 <slush> jgarzik: oh, you're here
 320 2011-03-14 01:37:39 <blarzong> especially if you're settling in btc at the end
 321 2011-03-14 01:37:42 <slush> jgarzik: it would be great, long poling is the best 'win' for CPU miners
 322 2011-03-14 01:38:16 KuT-Sickness is now known as Sick
 323 2011-03-14 01:38:47 <blarzong> if youre not settling in actual btc, its just a derivative
 324 2011-03-14 01:39:06 <slush> jgarzik: just read "X-Long-Polling" header. If presented, use URL inside to connect from separate thread and send normal getwork request (including authorization header).
 325 2011-03-14 01:39:14 <jgarzik> slush: yes, I agree it's nice
 326 2011-03-14 01:39:15 <slush> jgarzik: response come when new block is here
 327 2011-03-14 01:39:32 <jgarzik> slush: when will your pool support it?
 328 2011-03-14 01:39:40 <slush> jgarzik: also don't forget to turn off ask rate and refresh only when nonce is on the end ;)
 329 2011-03-14 01:39:40 <blarzong> but if youre actually taking delivery of the pigs/corn/btc its a real forward/futures contract
 330 2011-03-14 01:39:54 <xelister> jgarzik:  http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=142837
 331 2011-03-14 01:40:05 <slush> jgarzik: It was turned for a while on friday, then I found some strange issues on bitcoin p2p layer so I turned it off
 332 2011-03-14 01:40:14 <slush> jgarzik: hope tomorrow I'll finally solve it
 333 2011-03-14 01:40:14 <xelister> wait, what, slush you are really considering cpu miners again?
 334 2011-03-14 01:40:15 <jgarzik> slush: what issues?
 335 2011-03-14 01:40:24 <xelister> I thought you where all about not mining with CPU on your pool?
 336 2011-03-14 01:40:25 <slush> xelister: I never ban them
 337 2011-03-14 01:40:39 <jgarzik> xelister: CPU miners pound the servers the hardest, so long poll will have greatest effect on reducing server load
 338 2011-03-14 01:40:41 <slush> xelister: I think it is worthless, but I support CPU miners without problem
 339 2011-03-14 01:40:53 <xelister> hmm ok
 340 2011-03-14 01:41:00 <blarzong> traders usually sell the contract before they actually have to take any delivery.. but they do actually pay someone a small fee to handle storage should it arise.. in the last commodities bubble, food was piliing up in warehouses
 341 2011-03-14 01:41:09 <xelister> what is actually limit for such tunnel, isnt it like 30 seconds (without extra pings)?
 342 2011-03-14 01:41:28 Bosma has joined
 343 2011-03-14 01:41:31 <slush> jgarzik: I'm using artforz python node to listen for new block, instead of polling bitcoind RPC for getblocknum
 344 2011-03-14 01:41:33 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
 345 2011-03-14 01:41:50 <jgarzik> slush: what were the issues you saw with bitcoind?
 346 2011-03-14 01:41:56 Sick is now known as KuT-Sickness
 347 2011-03-14 01:41:57 <slush> jgarzik: it works great, except the LP daemon receive notification sooner than bitcoind can serve new block :)
 348 2011-03-14 01:42:14 <jgarzik> slush: watching debug.log provides easy, real-time access to all sorts of events
 349 2011-03-14 01:42:31 <slush> well, I have many bitcoind on more machines
 350 2011-03-14 01:42:47 aaa3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 351 2011-03-14 01:42:57 <blarzong> i dont know much about futures or finance.. my last stock trade was in 2000 and i lost all my $500 ! haha
 352 2011-03-14 01:43:08 agorist has joined
 353 2011-03-14 01:43:12 <slush> I finally found quite nice solution without any need of polling, but it needs little coding
 354 2011-03-14 01:43:50 <prax> running android emulator... can anyone tell me how to get into market?
 355 2011-03-14 01:44:04 <slush> btw I fall in love to twisted
 356 2011-03-14 01:45:15 bt2100 has joined
 357 2011-03-14 01:45:29 <blarzong> i bought stock in BEOS at the height and then the crash happened
 358 2011-03-14 01:45:31 <lfm> so are 6990 good deals at $750
 359 2011-03-14 01:45:51 <blarzong> and BeOS was acquired for just $11 million in 2001
 360 2011-03-14 01:48:38 Xunie has joined
 361 2011-03-14 01:48:42 ovatork has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 362 2011-03-14 01:49:41 <blarzong> beos stock went from $7 to $0.11 ... too bad
 363 2011-03-14 01:50:01 <xelister> blarzong: beos, cool.  why beos?
 364 2011-03-14 01:50:30 <blarzong> i thought it was awesome.. beautiful modern fast OS with a nice API
 365 2011-03-14 01:51:05 <bt2100> Hey, I just ran into bitcoin recently, and installed it on 3 different machines here at my house. All 3 say they're connected to a handful of clients, they're generating coins, but how long should I expect to wait to see any output at all?
 366 2011-03-14 01:51:50 <blarzong> bt2100: you might want to check out bitpenny.com
 367 2011-03-14 01:51:53 <jgarzik> which pool is [Tycho]'s
 368 2011-03-14 01:51:54 <jgarzik> ?
 369 2011-03-14 01:52:01 <lfm> bt2100: if you are just using the standard bitcoin it might take years
 370 2011-03-14 01:52:05 <slush> deepbit.net
 371 2011-03-14 01:52:11 <subpar> jgarzik: deepbit
 372 2011-03-14 01:52:20 <bt2100> blarzong: well I mean like, I read the wiki on what to expect, but they've been running for days and days with nothing to show for it...
 373 2011-03-14 01:52:40 anatoly_l has joined
 374 2011-03-14 01:52:51 <bt2100> blarzong: ah thank you for the bitpenny link =]
 375 2011-03-14 01:52:55 <subpar> bt2100: CPU or GPU?
 376 2011-03-14 01:53:02 <anatoly_l> ;;bc,stats
 377 2011-03-14 01:53:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113454 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1457 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 38 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66807.20756595
 378 2011-03-14 01:53:16 <bt2100> subpar: CPU, although I didn't realize I could use my GPU...
 379 2011-03-14 01:53:45 <anatoly_l> Would it be really difficulty drop?
 380 2011-03-14 01:53:47 <subpar> bt2100: generating a block with CPUs now is poitnless
 381 2011-03-14 01:53:59 <bt2100> subpar: is there a different client or configuration I should be using?
 382 2011-03-14 01:54:06 <subpar> ;;bc,calc 50000
 383 2011-03-14 01:54:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 10 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 3 minutes, and 32 seconds
 384 2011-03-14 01:54:31 <subpar> that is assuming 3 monster rigs
 385 2011-03-14 01:54:35 <JunK-Y> how can the difficulty decrease?
 386 2011-03-14 01:54:35 <bt2100> hmmm
 387 2011-03-14 01:54:39 <lfm> bt2100: what gpu(s) models do you have?
 388 2011-03-14 01:55:06 <bt2100> lfm: I have a pair of nvidia 8800GS in a box here that I could be putting to use...
 389 2011-03-14 01:55:08 <blarzong> im broke and unemployed
 390 2011-03-14 01:55:14 <blarzong> need some btc / usd fast
 391 2011-03-14 01:55:29 <blarzong> if only beos stock had tripled
 392 2011-03-14 01:55:33 <lfm> blarzong: get offa irc and get a job
 393 2011-03-14 01:55:37 <subpar> bt2100: ATI cards perform much better with BTC
 394 2011-03-14 01:55:45 <blarzong> no jobs in my industry.. im an electrician
 395 2011-03-14 01:55:45 <slush> jgarzik: how is your pool going?
 396 2011-03-14 01:55:56 <bt2100> subpar: do I need to do anything special to have bitcoin take advantage of the GPUs available?
 397 2011-03-14 01:56:09 <blarzong> building construction has really tanked since the GFC
 398 2011-03-14 01:56:16 <lfm> blarzong: lotsa job here
 399 2011-03-14 01:56:17 <slush> bt2100: which GPU do you have?
 400 2011-03-14 01:56:21 <slush> oh, sorry
 401 2011-03-14 01:56:22 <subpar> bt2100: go grab the poclbm GUI in the forums
 402 2011-03-14 01:56:22 <slush> I see
 403 2011-03-14 01:56:23 <jgarzik> slush: just found the first block ~24 hrs ago
 404 2011-03-14 01:56:34 <JunK-Y> slush: did you try the ATI 6990 ?
 405 2011-03-14 01:56:36 <subpar> bt2100: that is the easiest path forward
 406 2011-03-14 01:56:41 <bt2100> subpar: thank you =]
 407 2011-03-14 01:56:51 <slush> JunK-Y: no, I have 5970
 408 2011-03-14 01:57:07 <subpar> bt2100: but you will need to be running bitcoind locally or make an acocunt with a pool
 409 2011-03-14 01:57:12 <lfm> 5790?
 410 2011-03-14 01:57:13 <blarzong> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ is also a very good pool
 411 2011-03-14 01:57:15 <JunK-Y> kk
 412 2011-03-14 01:57:17 anatoly_l has quit (Client Quit)
 413 2011-03-14 01:57:28 <jgarzik> slush: pool is not main focus on xf2.org, only one service among many.  I plan to offer private pools, public pools, private bitcoind instances, and other fun things not related at all to mining
 414 2011-03-14 01:57:54 <jgarzik> Example:  GPG rating system (reputation), where you pay bitcoins for ratings
 415 2011-03-14 01:57:58 AmpEater has joined
 416 2011-03-14 01:57:58 <slush> jgarzik: private bitcoind instances was also my idea, it may be handy
 417 2011-03-14 01:58:38 <jgarzik> right now my pool == me, so only 2 Ghps
 418 2011-03-14 01:58:41 hwolf has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 419 2011-03-14 01:58:48 <jgarzik> no outside users (yet)
 420 2011-03-14 01:59:18 <slush> I think there is quite tight competition between current pools :)
 421 2011-03-14 01:59:21 <slush> so we will see
 422 2011-03-14 01:59:48 ovatork has joined
 423 2011-03-14 01:59:54 * jgarzik is happy to let you guys compete away.  I'm not trying to be a "big pool"
 424 2011-03-14 02:00:10 <slush> I believe that future mining is about pools, so there is definitely space for three good pools
 425 2011-03-14 02:00:12 * jgarzik will follow consensus, when it comes to pool protocols
 426 2011-03-14 02:00:52 <blarzong> i proposed incorporating pools into the protocol... get paid a fixed amount for some level of difficulty that a pool would consider adequate for a payout transaction
 427 2011-03-14 02:01:35 <slush> blarzong: there is definitely space for some services offered by pools on top of normal operation
 428 2011-03-14 02:01:42 <slush> we will see if there will be the demand
 429 2011-03-14 02:02:29 <blarzong> that way you can shift the decimal place like 6 places to the right, and ppl will be happy to earn free ubiks or whatever as soon as they fire up the client hehe
 430 2011-03-14 02:02:32 <AmpEater> Slush when you gonna open your pool?
 431 2011-03-14 02:02:42 <subpar> I haved used both pools this weekend
 432 2011-03-14 02:02:44 <slush> AmpEater: ehm, last week?
 433 2011-03-14 02:02:50 <subpar> AmpEater: it is open again ;-)
 434 2011-03-14 02:03:07 <AmpEater> Really? Well I'm out of the loop
 435 2011-03-14 02:03:13 <slush> :)
 436 2011-03-14 02:03:24 <blarzong> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/hall-of-fame/
 437 2011-03-14 02:03:40 <AmpEater> Get ready for 4ghash / sec more
 438 2011-03-14 02:03:41 <slush> I didn't advertise a lot, I'm affraid of another bitcoin slashdotting ;)
 439 2011-03-14 02:03:48 <slush> great :)
 440 2011-03-14 02:03:55 <blarzong> 60 GHps wow
 441 2011-03-14 02:04:32 <lfm> ;;bc,poolstats
 442 2011-03-14 02:04:33 <gribble> {"ghashes_ps": "124.019", "shares": 184716, "active_workers": 0, "round_duration": "1:46:37", "score": "18935.0260", "round_started": "2011-03-14 00:17:19", "shares_cdf": "91.15", "getwork_ps": 1712}
 443 2011-03-14 02:04:53 <luke-jr> blarzong: as of right now, we have no contract. While I assert my word as being trustworthy, that does not extend to taking you at your word. :p
 444 2011-03-14 02:04:58 Syke__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 445 2011-03-14 02:05:24 <slush> blarzong: heh, 'connected' in hall of fame is broken, same as 'active workers' on stats page
 446 2011-03-14 02:05:36 <slush> it is known, I'd like to publish long polling before fix this
 447 2011-03-14 02:05:47 Syke__ has joined
 448 2011-03-14 02:05:53 <luke-jr> blarzong: I don't consider myself long on bitcoin, nor "smart" in financial stuffs
 449 2011-03-14 02:06:01 <Spenvo> haha slush, worried about the masses
 450 2011-03-14 02:06:27 <slush> Spenvo: well, about masses with CPUs :)
 451 2011-03-14 02:06:41 <blarzong> luke-jr: wel you made a good bet
 452 2011-03-14 02:06:41 <Spenvo> hahaha, i'm glad i'm not in the mining game
 453 2011-03-14 02:06:46 <blarzong> i thought i would lose
 454 2011-03-14 02:07:03 <luke-jr> ?
 455 2011-03-14 02:07:08 dissipate has joined
 456 2011-03-14 02:07:08 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
 457 2011-03-14 02:07:08 dissipate has joined
 458 2011-03-14 02:07:21 <kiba> the volume today is extremely low
 459 2011-03-14 02:07:33 <blarzong> i was worried about losing onthe bet luke-jr
 460 2011-03-14 02:07:37 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
 461 2011-03-14 02:07:54 <kiba> and ask volume rose above 10,000
 462 2011-03-14 02:08:03 <luke-jr> blarzong: so you don't want to do it?
 463 2011-03-14 02:08:10 <blarzong> im happy to do the bet
 464 2011-03-14 02:08:15 <blarzong> i dont mind a little risk
 465 2011-03-14 02:08:27 <luke-jr> ok
 466 2011-03-14 02:08:30 <dissipate> I just posted my idea for a bitcoin based bounty pool software platform for FOSS projects: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4435.0  please let me know what you guys think.
 467 2011-03-14 02:08:35 <luke-jr> I still require clearcoin from you though :p
 468 2011-03-14 02:09:08 <Spenvo> thanks dissipate, i'll check it out tonight
 469 2011-03-14 02:09:36 <luke-jr> dissipate: in my experience, bountys don't work
 470 2011-03-14 02:09:41 <luke-jr> dissipate: good luck, though
 471 2011-03-14 02:09:43 <dissipate> Spenvo, cool. i'm hoping we can work together with the folks at Pyjamas.
 472 2011-03-14 02:10:10 <blarzong> luke-jr: hmm, ok. youre a trustworthy and established member, im new, so i guess thats reasonable
 473 2011-03-14 02:10:12 <luke-jr> also note my experience w/ bounties is basically limited to game dev :p
 474 2011-03-14 02:10:18 <dissipate> luke-jr, what bounties didn't work?
 475 2011-03-14 02:10:29 <blarzong> i should only have to escrow 7.22 btc (the most i could lose if btc goes to 1.80)
 476 2011-03-14 02:10:53 <luke-jr> dissipate: I offered to finish coding new features for Armagetron, but the bidding toward a bounty never got anywhere close to what it would cost me
 477 2011-03-14 02:11:15 <blarzong> we assume 1.80 is a sufficiently high future value that both of us think is unlikely to happen in a month
 478 2011-03-14 02:11:34 <blarzong> we will agree to cap any losses at $1.80 usd. beyond that no loss
 479 2011-03-14 02:11:43 <luke-jr> blarzong: I don't understand that math
 480 2011-03-14 02:11:54 <dissipate> luke-jr, i'm thinking these bounties would be put up by small businesses with a profit based stake in new features for certain software.
 481 2011-03-14 02:12:06 kisom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 482 2011-03-14 02:12:12 <luke-jr> dissipate: yeah, it may work with businesses bidding
 483 2011-03-14 02:12:24 <luke-jr> dissipate: like I said, my experiences were game dev, with players bidding
 484 2011-03-14 02:12:35 <dissipate> yep. businesses A, B, C all want feature X
 485 2011-03-14 02:12:53 * kiba considers raising money for a RTS game
 486 2011-03-14 02:13:02 <genjix> why so much obsession with mining and pools?
 487 2011-03-14 02:13:18 <luke-jr> genjix: for most people, "free money" is the only incentive to use bitcoin
 488 2011-03-14 02:13:30 <genjix> that's so silly :p
 489 2011-03-14 02:13:43 <luke-jr> genjix: that's why I keep saying bitcoin needs more ways to appeal to people
 490 2011-03-14 02:13:54 <luke-jr> eg, for me, Tonal support
 491 2011-03-14 02:14:30 <genjix> blackjack and hookers
 492 2011-03-14 02:14:39 Bosma has joined
 493 2011-03-14 02:14:55 <luke-jr> sigh
 494 2011-03-14 02:15:16 * Netsniper will mow your yard for bitcoins
 495 2011-03-14 02:15:21 <luke-jr> Netsniper: how many?
 496 2011-03-14 02:15:36 <genjix> i actually have quite a good hourly if i work, but i cant be bothered
 497 2011-03-14 02:15:38 <Netsniper> i'd have to see the yard first :)
 498 2011-03-14 02:15:43 <luke-jr> >_<
 499 2011-03-14 02:15:45 <osearth> hmmm cybermunch for digicash..
 500 2011-03-14 02:15:48 <genjix> so i live on the edge constantly
 501 2011-03-14 02:15:51 <luke-jr> Netsniper: it's 20 acres :P
 502 2011-03-14 02:15:55 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 503 2011-03-14 02:16:03 <genjix> like a kid who leaves homework to the last minute
 504 2011-03-14 02:16:22 <blarzong> wait did i get the math wrong
 505 2011-03-14 02:16:27 <noagendamarket> genjix someone needs a tractor with a slasher :)
 506 2011-03-14 02:16:28 <luke-jr> blarzong: that's what I was saying
 507 2011-03-14 02:16:30 * kiba have to drop three classes this semester because of his laziness
 508 2011-03-14 02:16:49 <Netsniper> luke-jr: 20 acres of flat land with no edging - i'll say 300 bitcoins
 509 2011-03-14 02:16:58 <luke-jr> 1.80 to 1.15 is 0.65 difference
 510 2011-03-14 02:17:06 <luke-jr> *25 = 16.25 BTC
 511 2011-03-14 02:17:13 <luke-jr> Netsniper: it's sloped.
 512 2011-03-14 02:17:24 <genjix> Netsniper: do you want to come mow my lawn?... in my basement?... in the dark (naked)
 513 2011-03-14 02:17:39 <luke-jr> …
 514 2011-03-14 02:17:39 <Netsniper> genjix: no :(
 515 2011-03-14 02:17:52 <genjix> u get 2 wear an apron
 516 2011-03-14 02:17:53 <kiba> luke-jr: what would it take for you to not believe in God?
 517 2011-03-14 02:18:05 <luke-jr> kiba: brain damage?
 518 2011-03-14 02:18:06 <genjix> go away
 519 2011-03-14 02:18:29 <blarzong> at the end im giving you $28.75 (15.97 btc if the closing value is $1.80 per btc)
 520 2011-03-14 02:18:31 <Netsniper> what god?
 521 2011-03-14 02:19:00 <Netsniper> the largest i've done so far is 12 acrees and it took 6 hours
 522 2011-03-14 02:19:00 kisom_ has joined
 523 2011-03-14 02:19:03 <blarzong> and you're returning 20 btc to me.. so i get 4.03 btc
 524 2011-03-14 02:19:11 <Netsniper> but it was also a lot of trimming
 525 2011-03-14 02:19:25 kisom_ is now known as Guest13060
 526 2011-03-14 02:19:39 <blarzong> i forgot who was buying from whom.. im selling you btc right
 527 2011-03-14 02:20:00 <luke-jr> Netsniper: why don't we just say max stakes 20 BTC, calculated on the market price in a month?
 528 2011-03-14 02:20:40 <blarzong> so at the end you're giving me $28.75 (25 * $1.15). if btc is $1.80 you give me 15.97 btc.. and i give you 25 btc
 529 2011-03-14 02:21:08 <blarzong> so i could lose 9.03 btc
 530 2011-03-14 02:21:13 <luke-jr> blarzong: what?
 531 2011-03-14 02:21:40 <blarzong> im just suggesting we close the transaction in btc rather than usd
 532 2011-03-14 02:21:46 <luke-jr> you're talking in USD
 533 2011-03-14 02:23:55 <blarzong> yeah
 534 2011-03-14 02:23:56 <luke-jr> if BTC goes to $1.80, you owe me 14.13043478 BTC; if BTC drops to $0.50, I owe you 14.13043478 BTC
 535 2011-03-14 02:24:13 <blarzong> ermm... btc on that day is mult
 536 2011-03-14 02:24:39 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 537 2011-03-14 02:24:54 <dissipate> are we setting up betting games? :O
 538 2011-03-14 02:25:03 <blarzong> put it another way: both parties can lose up to $16.25 USD (which will be 32.5btc if its  $0.5 or 9.02 btc if it ends up at $1.80)
 539 2011-03-14 02:26:00 <blarzong> im just converting the loss to btc on the day of settlement
 540 2011-03-14 02:26:03 <blarzong> its up to you tho your way is fine
 541 2011-03-14 02:27:28 <luke-jr> I don't understand your way, so can we do mine? :P
 542 2011-03-14 02:27:28 <blarzong> so i was wrong.. instead of escrowing 7.22btc my max loss is 9.02 btc
 543 2011-03-14 02:28:57 <luke-jr> so we would both escrow 14.13, and do the buy at $28.75 today?
 544 2011-03-14 02:28:58 <blarzong> ok ill setup an escrow and then we can go from there
 545 2011-03-14 02:29:10 <luke-jr> wait, does clearcoin allow partial release?
 546 2011-03-14 02:29:32 <blarzong> i dont know
 547 2011-03-14 02:29:42 <luke-jr> hrm
 548 2011-03-14 02:29:43 <blarzong> i think the escrow would just be proof of commitment
 549 2011-03-14 02:29:47 phantomcircuit has joined
 550 2011-03-14 02:30:43 <luke-jr> maybe we need a trusted 3rd party to hold the escrows and evaluate the market
 551 2011-03-14 02:30:59 <luke-jr> their reward being 28.26 BTC to use as they like for a month
 552 2011-03-14 02:31:18 <blarzong> my only concern is the trusted party decides to blow the money on hookers and drugs...
 553 2011-03-14 02:31:32 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 554 2011-03-14 02:31:59 <xelister> luke-jr: I like my & blarzong idea
 555 2011-03-14 02:32:20 <blarzong> i trust clearcoin tho.. no problems w/that
 556 2011-03-14 02:32:23 <luke-jr> blarzong: that's why it's someone trusted
 557 2011-03-14 02:32:49 <xelister> median (by volume) of mtgox prices, not all prices, but up to the volume about which the "bet" was made. Better yet, made it average over X days before the finall date, e.g. 3+10% of "bet" length
 558 2011-03-14 02:33:30 <luke-jr> xelister: too complicated. I'm wasting more time figuring this out that I stand to win :p
 559 2011-03-14 02:33:42 <xelister> luke-jr: well it is fair
 560 2011-03-14 02:33:53 <xelister> if not, then just avg of mtgox average price from last 7 days
 561 2011-03-14 02:34:23 <xelister> also mtgox could script such stats
 562 2011-03-14 02:34:30 <xelister> triviall
 563 2011-03-14 02:34:34 <blarzong> yeah something like that, just to make sure no one does a sham trade between himself to artificially make the price higher
 564 2011-03-14 02:35:19 <blarzong> i mean on the day of, i could just sell 10,000 to myself at $0.01 heh... well i dont have any $ anyway, so that wont happen
 565 2011-03-14 02:37:03 <FellowTraveler> that's why you have to take fundamentals into account, not just technicals.
 566 2011-03-14 02:37:16 <FellowTraveler> They are more difficult to manipulate.
 567 2011-03-14 02:37:41 <blarzong> yeah FellowTraveler. I think OT already handles all these transactions
 568 2011-03-14 02:38:16 <FellowTraveler> OT allows you to create market offers and trade them.  I just need to add a couple functions so you can query for market depth, volume, price points, etc
 569 2011-03-14 02:38:28 <FellowTraveler> more introspection basically to what is already underneath.
 570 2011-03-14 02:38:57 <blarzong> yeah so an exchange based on OT where ppl can buy and sell
 571 2011-03-14 02:39:08 <FellowTraveler> I also realized that Bitcoin is the perfect "medium" for value transfers between OT servers
 572 2011-03-14 02:39:18 <blarzong> interesting
 573 2011-03-14 02:39:18 <FellowTraveler> once you get there, you can convert in/out of any other currency.
 574 2011-03-14 02:39:23 <FellowTraveler> on markets.
 575 2011-03-14 02:39:54 <FellowTraveler> let's say you transferred 1000 BTC to the server, and it gave you 1000 units of an OT asset type denominated in BTC
 576 2011-03-14 02:40:01 <FellowTraveler> Then you could trade those on OT markets against gold, dollars, etc
 577 2011-03-14 02:40:08 <blarzong> cool
 578 2011-03-14 02:40:16 <FellowTraveler> convert to BTC, then take to ANOTHER OT server, use market to convert back to dollars again
 579 2011-03-14 02:40:25 <FellowTraveler> see Bitcoin becomes a "glue" that connects them all.
 580 2011-03-14 02:40:39 <FellowTraveler> as long as there are markets on either end for convertibility you can go in and out of different national currencies too
 581 2011-03-14 02:40:49 <blarzong> pretty cool
 582 2011-03-14 02:41:11 <blarzong> no need to deal with forex fees in that case
 583 2011-03-14 02:41:30 <FellowTraveler> Right now there are already dealers who buy/sell BTC for dollars in USA, and for Rubles in Russia
 584 2011-03-14 02:41:43 <FellowTraveler> if you hit an OT server in between, you just found an untraceable way to convert dollars to rubles and back again.
 585 2011-03-14 02:41:54 <blarzong> interesting
 586 2011-03-14 02:42:33 <FellowTraveler> I've thought of other ways to do server transfers but I think Bitcoin is the coolest medium to glue everything together
 587 2011-03-14 02:42:38 <lfm> the main limit is the size of the btc market
 588 2011-03-14 02:42:56 <FellowTraveler> I think once people realize that Bitcoin allows them to convert anything into anything else, the size will grow.
 589 2011-03-14 02:43:12 <FellowTraveler> the value of it, in my mind, isn't buying things with btc, but rather, converting in and out of btc between other things.
 590 2011-03-14 02:43:18 <FellowTraveler> using it as lubricant.
 591 2011-03-14 02:43:29 <blarzong> there is a psychological hurdle, ppl think 1 bitcoin should equal 1 dollar.. maybe shift the decimal point a few places, and today's bitcoin is really a megabitcoin
 592 2011-03-14 02:43:42 dust1 has joined
 593 2011-03-14 02:44:00 <FellowTraveler> And anyway, Bitcoin needs something like OT because that's what makes it (a) untraceable (b) have instant settlement and © be easily convertible to other currencies
 594 2011-03-14 02:44:15 <FellowTraveler> That was A. B. and C.
 595 2011-03-14 02:44:21 <blarzong> i think ppl would rather have 1000 bitcoin than .001 bitcoin
 596 2011-03-14 02:44:42 <FellowTraveler> in fact even the Bitcoin services now that provide those things are just duplicating OT functionality
 597 2011-03-14 02:45:05 <luke-jr> blarzong: why don't I just plan to buy 25 BTC from you at $1.15 on Apr 13, and if one of us fails to follow through we are publicly shamed? :P
 598 2011-03-14 02:45:27 <blarzong> luke-jr:  fine w/me.. thats exactly what you said before, but im for it
 599 2011-03-14 02:45:49 <luke-jr> nah, before I was insisting on clearcoin from you :p
 600 2011-03-14 02:46:03 <blarzong> aye..
 601 2011-03-14 02:46:44 <blarzong> does anyone think bitcoin should be renamed to .001 bitcoin? its basically just a cosmetic change.. ppl like integers rather than decimals
 602 2011-03-14 02:47:18 <blarzong> and there have been other names mentioned on the forums, but i dont think any name is better than bitcoin itself
 603 2011-03-14 02:47:47 <luke-jr> blarzong: bitcoin is the technology
 604 2011-03-14 02:48:03 <luke-jr> BTC is defined as 100,000,000 "atomic units" of bitcoin
 605 2011-03-14 02:48:35 <blarzong> yeah..ppl talk about it like USD / dollar  BTC/bitcoin
 606 2011-03-14 02:48:37 <lfm> blarzong: i vote no, dont change it
 607 2011-03-14 02:48:38 <luke-jr> people can use mBTC already
 608 2011-03-14 02:49:10 <luke-jr> blarzong: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units
 609 2011-03-14 02:50:02 <blarzong> i noticed there was a sell-off at $0.5 and $1 in the btc market..
 610 2011-03-14 02:50:55 <blarzong> interesting how arbitrary goalposts can influence selling behavior
 611 2011-03-14 02:51:26 asperand has joined
 612 2011-03-14 02:52:02 <blarzong> makes sense luke-jr
 613 2011-03-14 02:52:15 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
 614 2011-03-14 02:52:25 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 615 2011-03-14 02:52:32 <blarzong> anyway i still dont know enough about btc yet.. im gonna do a packet trace and see how the low-level stuff works just for fun
 616 2011-03-14 02:53:02 <luke-jr> easier to read the code :p
 617 2011-03-14 02:53:59 bk128 has joined
 618 2011-03-14 02:54:06 <blarzong> http://intrade.com/v4/home/  <-- would be cool to have this in bitcoin
 619 2011-03-14 02:54:25 <blarzong> prediction market, ppl buying and selling world events
 620 2011-03-14 02:54:47 <osearth> nice
 621 2011-03-14 02:56:26 <blarzong> i could setup an OT server to manage the trades
 622 2011-03-14 02:56:51 <luke-jr> blarzong: i think someone did
 623 2011-03-14 02:56:55 <luke-jr> not as nice looking, but more or less
 624 2011-03-14 02:57:02 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 625 2011-03-14 02:57:02 <blarzong> ahh interesting
 626 2011-03-14 02:57:49 <osearth> i'll code anything that is completely specd. PHP since 90s
 627 2011-03-14 02:58:28 TheKid has left ()
 628 2011-03-14 02:58:35 <luke-jr> osearth: huh?
 629 2011-03-14 02:59:18 <osearth> i have tens of thousands of hours of webdev experience
 630 2011-03-14 02:59:29 <blarzong> anyway i have to make some cash quick or im evicted. have to find a job soon
 631 2011-03-14 02:59:52 <luke-jr> osearth: when in the 90s?
 632 2011-03-14 03:00:43 TheKid has joined
 633 2011-03-14 03:01:13 <osearth> ive been freelancing the past year. getting back to code fills the free time from avoiding party promotion scene
 634 2011-03-14 03:01:28 <blarzong> take your mining experience and bring it to a hedge fund. those guys are paying like $300K to developers. w/bitcoin experience and high performance stuff they will hire you
 635 2011-03-14 03:01:53 <blarzong> funny how finance industry is paying 4x what other industries are paying, often for the same work
 636 2011-03-14 03:02:13 <osearth> i'm a day 3 bitcoiner.
 637 2011-03-14 03:02:47 <blarzong> http://www.huxley.com/en/JobSearch/SearchResults/?element_jobsearch_keywords=&element_industry=0&element_job_type=0&element_country=329&Submit=Search&Mode=JobSearch.SearchResults
 638 2011-03-14 03:02:52 <blarzong> oops i thought i was on bitcoin-discussion
 639 2011-03-14 03:05:57 <osearth> ha first thing i clicked was a 404. looks like they need to post an add on their own site ;]
 640 2011-03-14 03:06:25 <blarzong> which link was that osearth?
 641 2011-03-14 03:07:08 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 642 2011-03-14 03:07:42 <blarzong> yeah i mean, i think anyone with bitcoin experience would be hired by these hedge funds. since its computational finance
 643 2011-03-14 03:08:15 Bosma has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 646 2011-03-14 03:08:36 <blarzong> anyway i have to go outside and rummage through th edumpster for some scraps.. bb
 647 2011-03-14 03:11:37 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 649 2011-03-14 03:20:44 <mmagic> 8-hour window estimate dropping to the 50k mark..! http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
 650 2011-03-14 03:20:52 <mmagic> wow
 651 2011-03-14 03:20:54 <mmagic> ;;bc,stats
 652 2011-03-14 03:20:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113459 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1452 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 53 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66474.25723572
 653 2011-03-14 03:23:54 <dust1> someone spamming the network?
 654 2011-03-14 03:24:00 <dust1> bitcoinmonitor.com
 655 2011-03-14 03:24:52 <AmpEater> Huh?
 656 2011-03-14 03:25:16 <dust1> ampeater: theres a ton of .01 transactions
 657 2011-03-14 03:25:25 <AmpEater> Shhh
 658 2011-03-14 03:25:30 <AmpEater> Sorry
 659 2011-03-14 03:25:37 <AmpEater> **shhh
 660 2011-03-14 03:25:45 <AmpEater> Fucking spellcheck!
 661 2011-03-14 03:25:52 <AmpEater> *ahhhh
 662 2011-03-14 03:26:06 <AmpEater> I still don't get why anyone would spam
 663 2011-03-14 03:26:08 <dust1> nvmd is only ~100 or so
 664 2011-03-14 03:26:18 <AmpEater> Other than to force transaction fees
 665 2011-03-14 03:26:18 <blarzong> hmm why would someone be doing all those B0.01's
 666 2011-03-14 03:26:26 <mmagic> that's a "because they can" thing.
 667 2011-03-14 03:26:41 <blarzong> its happening right after a block is found
 668 2011-03-14 03:27:05 <mmagic> or, if it's not spam, it might be a legitimate micro-payment thing.
 669 2011-03-14 03:27:32 <AmpEater> Hmmm
 670 2011-03-14 03:27:37 <AmpEater> Makes sense
 671 2011-03-14 03:27:47 <AmpEater> If there is a pattern
 672 2011-03-14 03:27:54 <dust1> increase block size for free, force higher fees, mine blocks, collect fees?
 673 2011-03-14 03:27:54 <AmpEater> Or mystery miner got smarter
 674 2011-03-14 03:28:25 <AmpEater> Maybe mm has 1 million tiny accounts now
 675 2011-03-14 03:28:41 <mmagic> i doubt it.
 676 2011-03-14 03:28:47 <mmagic> where's the hashrate?
 677 2011-03-14 03:29:15 <mmagic> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1E29AKE7Lh1xW4ujHotoT4JVDaDdRPJnWu
 678 2011-03-14 03:29:19 <mmagic> looks spammy to me.
 679 2011-03-14 03:29:58 <AmpEater> But why
 680 2011-03-14 03:29:59 <blarzong> so who found the 2 blocks at 2:45 and 3:08 UTC..
 681 2011-03-14 03:30:01 <mmagic> back and forth between two addresses. what a dork.
 682 2011-03-14 03:30:19 <blarzong> probably the same person who did all the spam
 683 2011-03-14 03:30:35 <AmpEater> Eh, ok
 684 2011-03-14 03:32:20 <da2ce7> 100BTC bounty for a Open Transaction GUI, contact FellowTraveler for technical details.
 685 2011-03-14 03:33:20 <blarzong> btw is there an agreed-upon url scheme for bitcoin yet
 686 2011-03-14 03:33:40 <blarzong> like <a href="bitcoin://HfysZyMaKud">Pay me here!</a>
 687 2011-03-14 03:34:06 <AmpEater> How do i throw 50btc in?
 688 2011-03-14 03:34:45 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki uri scheme
 689 2011-03-14 03:34:45 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme | Jan 17, 2011 ... This is about creating a URI scheme for bitcoin. Previous discussion was in this forum thread. x-btc specification is at x-btc. ...
 690 2011-03-14 03:34:49 <nanotube> blarzong: --^
 691 2011-03-14 03:34:50 <blarzong> oh cool
 692 2011-03-14 03:36:41 <FellowTraveler> AmpEater if you're talking about throwing in for OT, pls talk to da2ce7.
 693 2011-03-14 03:38:20 <genjix> what kind of gui da2ce7 ?
 694 2011-03-14 03:38:56 <da2ce7> Web. MVC or somthing like that.
 695 2011-03-14 03:39:00 <FellowTraveler> a basic OT client that also features convertibility in/out of BTC, I think is what he has in mind.
 696 2011-03-14 03:39:11 <FellowTraveler> warning: OT requires client-side processing
 697 2011-03-14 03:39:22 * da2ce7 isn't a coder so direct those questions to FellowTraveler
 698 2011-03-14 03:40:29 <da2ce7> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4439.msg65092#msg65092
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 710 2011-03-14 04:11:49 <blarzong> im so drunk
 711 2011-03-14 04:16:19 <AmpEater> Prove it
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 717 2011-03-14 04:29:55 <validus> i was last nite lol
 718 2011-03-14 04:30:01 <validus> i typo'd 9 outa 12 words typing a sentence to someone last nite, was like wow ya im not typing anymore
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 772 2011-03-14 06:02:58 <genjix> happy pi day!
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 776 2011-03-14 06:06:13 garrett is now known as TheKid
 777 2011-03-14 06:06:17 <TheKid> hmmm
 778 2011-03-14 06:06:17 <TheKid> anyone using irssi?
 779 2011-03-14 06:06:17 <TheKid> it says act: 1
 780 2011-03-14 06:06:17 <TheKid> how do I switch to tab 1?
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 810 2011-03-14 07:50:08 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 811 2011-03-14 07:50:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113478 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1433 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 12 hours, 15 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65945.54968677
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 825 2011-03-14 08:52:21 <da2ce7> webdesigner/coders for bitcoin? who is good and wanting to decuss a project?
 826 2011-03-14 08:52:33 <da2ce7> *has free time/ inbetween work.
 827 2011-03-14 08:52:57 <justmoon> you lost me at free time :/
 828 2011-03-14 08:53:20 <justmoon> the wiki has a few developers/designers under freelancers
 829 2011-03-14 08:54:44 <Spenvo> i know who can help you da2ce7
 830 2011-03-14 08:55:22 <da2ce7> cool
 831 2011-03-14 08:55:29 <justmoon> Spenvo: he's definitely more designer than coder though :)
 832 2011-03-14 08:55:37 <justmoon> but he's definitely good
 833 2011-03-14 08:55:40 <AAA_awright> da2ce7: Is this an idea you want to hire for or vice versa?
 834 2011-03-14 08:55:54 <Spenvo> he posted to the classifieds on my site.  his email is mitchy@gmail.com, check out his classifieds at bitcoinbulletin.com
 835 2011-03-14 08:56:03 <da2ce7> I want to hire a good designer/coder.
 836 2011-03-14 08:56:18 <Spenvo> he said he's just excited about joining the community etc, and would work for btc
 837 2011-03-14 08:56:55 <da2ce7> It needs to intergrate with a bitcoin payment system, such as you-tip-it.
 838 2011-03-14 08:57:58 <Spenvo> the bitcoin client isn't to hard to interface with, it runs at the command line
 839 2011-03-14 09:03:00 <osearth_> what language, any existing framework?
 840 2011-03-14 09:05:07 <da2ce7> I have no new project, clean code base... Must be MVC
 841 2011-03-14 09:05:21 <da2ce7> but I try my best to keep my hand out of the coding side.
 842 2011-03-14 09:05:43 <lfm> you dont like coding?
 843 2011-03-14 09:05:44 <da2ce7> However I expect the coder to rationalise their design choices.
 844 2011-03-14 09:06:10 <da2ce7> lfm, not particualy. It is more that I am time poor and idea rich.
 845 2011-03-14 09:07:32 <da2ce7> I already have anntoher project (to be announced) underway from one of the better coders in the bitcoin community,  this one is more per
 846 2011-03-14 09:07:40 <da2ce7> this project is more personal.
 847 2011-03-14 09:07:42 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 848 2011-03-14 09:08:00 <osearth_> do you have anything spec'd out
 849 2011-03-14 09:08:19 amiller has joined
 850 2011-03-14 09:08:55 <da2ce7> Not formaly, yet.  I want to decuss it with a coder first to gain a prospective on the ammount of work required.
 851 2011-03-14 09:12:49 <osearth_> there's some great people around but much of the btc webtech is, young..
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 853 2011-03-14 09:13:58 <Spenvo> da2ce7, seriously send mitchy@gmail.com an email.  i know he'll respond.  he's anxious to get in on some ideas.  Here's what he wrote:
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 855 2011-03-14 09:14:11 <Spenvo> Custom PHP+MySQL development for Bitcoins! I have over 13 years experience and work full time freelancing out my tech skills. I may even volunteer system resources, time or currency if you have a good idea and need help! I am not a graphics guy. I'm a sysadmin focusing on web technologies SQL, and TCP/IP standards.
 856 2011-03-14 09:14:29 <Spenvo> sounds like what you need
 857 2011-03-14 09:15:02 <da2ce7> yeah
 858 2011-03-14 09:15:08 <osearth_> bah nerds! ;]
 859 2011-03-14 09:15:24 <Spenvo> lol. os, stfu!!!
 860 2011-03-14 09:15:45 <da2ce7> I'll have a good look at both.
 861 2011-03-14 09:15:48 <Spenvo> hey, i gotta go, i'll be afk for a while. but definitely send a short email to this dude
 862 2011-03-14 09:15:59 <Spenvo> he's got the itch
 863 2011-03-14 09:16:09 * Spenvo leaves
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 865 2011-03-14 09:16:37 <justmoon> hey TD!
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 869 2011-03-14 09:26:08 <eps1> ;;bc;calc
 870 2011-03-14 09:26:09 <gribble> Error: "bc;calc" is not a valid command.
 871 2011-03-14 09:26:14 <eps1> ;;bc calc
 872 2011-03-14 09:26:14 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
 873 2011-03-14 09:26:20 <eps1> hmmm
 874 2011-03-14 09:26:37 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
 875 2011-03-14 09:26:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113485 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1426 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 12 hours, 5 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65726.55536001
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 880 2011-03-14 09:38:57 <RBecker> eps1, it's ;;bc,calc
 881 2011-03-14 09:44:40 <eps1> thanks
 882 2011-03-14 09:44:48 <eps1> i was actually after stats anyway ;)
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 887 2011-03-14 09:53:44 <RBecker> ;;bc,diff
 888 2011-03-14 09:53:45 <gribble> 76193.9710474
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 907 2011-03-14 11:07:02 <mizerydearia> http://media.witcoin.com/p/437/bitcoin-mentioned-on-the-Max-Keiser-show
 908 2011-03-14 11:10:54 <osearth_> tx
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 910 2011-03-14 11:20:10 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
 911 2011-03-14 11:20:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113495 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1416 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 9 hours, 45 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65811.15459462
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 915 2011-03-14 11:39:49 <noagendamarket> hmm going down again...
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 918 2011-03-14 11:56:34 <Blitzboom> ;;calcd 60000 225000
 919 2011-03-14 11:56:36 <gribble> Error: "calcd" is not a valid command.
 920 2011-03-14 11:56:45 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,calcd 60000 225000
 921 2011-03-14 11:56:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 60000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 225000, is 26 weeks, 4 days, 9 hours, 55 minutes, and 27 seconds
 922 2011-03-14 11:57:07 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,calcd 225000 60000
 923 2011-03-14 11:57:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 225000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 60000, is 1 week, 6 days, 6 hours, 8 minutes, and 44 seconds
 924 2011-03-14 11:57:26 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,calcd 325000 60000
 925 2011-03-14 11:57:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 325000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 60000, is 1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes, and 17 seconds
 926 2011-03-14 11:57:30 <Blitzboom> hmm
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 928 2011-03-14 12:02:24 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-large-lin-10k.png
 929 2011-03-14 12:03:36 <Blitzboom> hmm
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 931 2011-03-14 12:03:57 <[Tycho]> hmm
 932 2011-03-14 12:04:28 <[Tycho]> Something is strange on those graphs.
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 934 2011-03-14 12:06:39 <Blitzboom> why?
 935 2011-03-14 12:08:58 <[Tycho]> There was a graph of network speed's acceleration, and no negative values on it.
 936 2011-03-14 12:09:32 <sipa> yes, http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png
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 938 2011-03-14 12:10:02 <sipa> but the growth is also measured over longer periods of time, and in those, even if the estimate decreases locally, over the whole they increase
 939 2011-03-14 12:14:14 <[Tycho]> It's already almost a week of deceleration... Well, may be.
 940 2011-03-14 12:14:47 <sipa> yes, it will soon go negative i think
 941 2011-03-14 12:16:10 <sipa> this one already did: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth-10k.png
 942 2011-03-14 12:18:32 <slush> any theory why everybody stopped with pulling cards into network? :)
 943 2011-03-14 12:19:42 <sipa> mtgox drop + large difficulty increase?
 944 2011-03-14 12:20:10 <Blitzboom> wasn’t that due to the mistery miner?
 945 2011-03-14 12:20:23 <sipa> yes
 946 2011-03-14 12:20:30 <Blitzboom> the most part
 947 2011-03-14 12:20:34 <slush> well, it is not so much under Decembers calculations, when I started mining.
 948 2011-03-14 12:20:46 <slush> not exactly the same, but not so much different
 949 2011-03-14 12:20:54 <Blitzboom> i’m looking forward to a difficulty decrease
 950 2011-03-14 12:21:02 BlueMatt has joined
 951 2011-03-14 12:21:10 <slush> I calculated daily income as 200CZK / 5970, now it is around 130 CZK per card
 952 2011-03-14 12:21:39 <sipa> difficulty will drop next time
 953 2011-03-14 12:22:03 <Blitzboom> maybe mm jumps back on, sipa. you never know
 954 2011-03-14 12:22:14 <Blitzboom> or we get slashdotted again
 955 2011-03-14 12:22:15 <sipa> who knows
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 959 2011-03-14 12:44:05 <TD> slush: seriously?
 960 2011-03-14 12:44:17 <TD> slush: you can pay back the costs of the hardware in less than a day?
 961 2011-03-14 12:44:25 <slush> ?
 962 2011-03-14 12:44:52 <TD> oh sorry
 963 2011-03-14 12:44:53 <slush> 17 CZK ~  1 USD
 964 2011-03-14 12:44:55 <TD> i misread what you wrote
 965 2011-03-14 12:45:03 <TD> well, mis-parsed
 966 2011-03-14 12:45:07 <slush> :)
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 969 2011-03-14 12:58:00 <Necr0s> ;;bc,blocks
 970 2011-03-14 12:58:02 <gribble> 113501
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 983 2011-03-14 14:01:21 <da2ce7> Goodnight people! Have fun!
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1032 2011-03-14 16:16:35 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 560000
1033 2011-03-14 16:17:21 <slush> [Tycho]: Damn, you steal me block 113420
1034 2011-03-14 16:17:31 <luke-jr> [Tycho]++
1035 2011-03-14 16:18:03 <slush> 15 seconds later
1036 2011-03-14 16:18:12 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
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1038 2011-03-14 16:30:24 <Blitzboom> slush: have you changed something on the pool?
1039 2011-03-14 16:30:32 <Blitzboom> i’m getting much less stale blocks now
1040 2011-03-14 16:31:16 <Blitzboom> my hashrate also increased
1041 2011-03-14 16:31:28 <slush> I'm tuning it almost every day, so maybe I finally tuned something useful ;)
1042 2011-03-14 16:31:49 <Blitzboom> haha, ok
1043 2011-03-14 16:31:52 <slush> but no, I don't think I improved something related with hashrate
1044 2011-03-14 16:31:53 <slush> :)
1045 2011-03-14 16:32:03 <slush> which is your ping to pool?
1046 2011-03-14 16:32:24 <Blitzboom> how do i find out?
1047 2011-03-14 16:32:35 <Blitzboom> ping@cmd?
1048 2011-03-14 16:32:38 <slush> "ping mining.bitcoin.cz" in terminal?
1049 2011-03-14 16:32:56 <Blitzboom> 36 ms
1050 2011-03-14 16:33:15 <slush> and "time wget 'http://mining.bitcoin.cz'"
1051 2011-03-14 16:33:40 <slush> (not exact too much, as you also have to create new connection)
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1053 2011-03-14 16:35:10 <Blitzboom> anyway, stale blocks are at 0.8% now here
1054 2011-03-14 16:35:57 <slush> When did you measure that previously?
1055 2011-03-14 16:36:01 <slush> I mean - more than week ago?
1056 2011-03-14 16:36:12 <Blitzboom> nah, yesterday
1057 2011-03-14 16:36:16 <slush> and it was?
1058 2011-03-14 16:36:30 <Blitzboom> 1.7% or something
1059 2011-03-14 16:36:51 <slush> 1.7% is in normal
1060 2011-03-14 16:37:11 <slush> so maybe you're just lucky :)
1061 2011-03-14 16:37:52 <Blitzboom> might be – i only have about 1k shares in the statistic now
1062 2011-03-14 16:38:10 <slush> well, it's not too much
1063 2011-03-14 16:38:25 <slush> tell me after 100k :)
1064 2011-03-14 16:38:42 <Blitzboom> alright ;)
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1073 2011-03-14 17:01:13 <BlueMatt> I get no stale blocks
1074 2011-03-14 17:01:21 <BlueMatt> like literally one a week or so
1075 2011-03-14 17:01:57 <BlueMatt> ;;ping
1076 2011-03-14 17:01:57 <gribble> pong
1077 2011-03-14 17:03:03 <Blitzboom_> which pool, BlueMatt?
1078 2011-03-14 17:03:24 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
1079 2011-03-14 17:03:39 <BlueMatt> slush's one
1080 2011-03-14 17:04:38 <Blitzboom> i also noticed much fewer stale blocks
1081 2011-03-14 17:04:47 <Blitzboom> not none though
1082 2011-03-14 17:05:04 <BlueMatt> I havent seen a stale block in more than a week
1083 2011-03-14 17:05:27 <Blitzboom> wow
1084 2011-03-14 17:05:34 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1085 2011-03-14 17:05:36 <Blitzboom> what hardware?
1086 2011-03-14 17:05:51 <Blitzboom> eh, how many mhash/s
1087 2011-03-14 17:05:54 <BlueMatt> gtx 260, not very fast but ~47000 khash
1088 2011-03-14 17:05:54 Mango-chan has joined
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1090 2011-03-14 17:07:02 <Blitzboom> guess slush must’ve changed something
1091 2011-03-14 17:07:19 <Blitzboom> pools are really a good alternative now
1092 2011-03-14 17:08:08 <Blitzboom> i don’t really care if i lose 2 or 3% in the long run
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1097 2011-03-14 17:29:31 <Aciid> what did the SP mean in "mining hardware comparison"
1098 2011-03-14 17:29:45 <ArtForz> shader processors
1099 2011-03-14 17:30:31 <Aciid> ah thank you
1100 2011-03-14 17:30:41 <ArtForz> a bit of a misnomer, it's really shader ALUs
1101 2011-03-14 17:30:47 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1102 2011-03-14 17:31:08 <ArtForz> but there doesnt seem to be a standard term
1103 2011-03-14 17:31:20 <ArtForz> WPO calls em shader cores, but thats even more confusing
1104 2011-03-14 17:31:22 <ArtForz> *WP
1105 2011-03-14 17:31:55 phantomcircuit has joined
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1107 2011-03-14 17:36:04 <midnightmagic> not stream processors?
1108 2011-03-14 17:36:23 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: stream is an ATI-specific term
1109 2011-03-14 17:37:07 <midnightmagic> 3200 Stream Processing Units is the term still up on AMD's website for the 5970.
1110 2011-03-14 17:38:00 <midnightmagic> 3072 Stream Processors for the 6990.
1111 2011-03-14 17:38:24 <midnightmagic> but then i guess the asker was talking nvidia, so..
1112 2011-03-14 17:38:39 u2time has left ()
1113 2011-03-14 17:39:28 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
1114 2011-03-14 17:39:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113533 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1378 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 0 hours, 29 minutes, and 58 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66302.88157833
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1120 2011-03-14 17:50:47 <blarzong> all hail bitcoin it is awesome
1121 2011-03-14 17:52:18 <jercos> Good for you?
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1136 2011-03-14 18:35:28 <genjix> ;;seen MagicalTux
1137 2011-03-14 18:35:29 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 8 hours, and 53 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> da2ce7: I live within Tokyo23, going home from work takes ~45 minutes by walking normally
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1169 2011-03-14 19:13:59 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1170 2011-03-14 19:14:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113540 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1371 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66200.68375541
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1177 2011-03-14 19:18:53 <dazoe> ;;bc,stats
1178 2011-03-14 19:19:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113540 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1371 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66200.68375541
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1203 2011-03-14 19:40:21 DiabloD3 is now known as Diablo-D3
1204 2011-03-14 19:46:17 <defaced> i wish there was an auction site that i could use to sell items. -sigh-
1205 2011-03-14 19:46:38 <nanotube> defaced: biddingpond.com ebay.com
1206 2011-03-14 19:46:47 <ArtForz> ^..
1207 2011-03-14 19:46:52 <defaced> lul for bitcoins =P
1208 2011-03-14 19:46:58 <ArtForz> http://biddingpond.com/
1209 2011-03-14 19:47:01 <defaced> orl
1210 2011-03-14 19:47:03 <nanotube> defaced: first one is bitcoin only.
1211 2011-03-14 19:47:12 <defaced> ty man!
1212 2011-03-14 19:47:30 <AmpEater> L ol
1213 2011-03-14 19:48:30 <nanotube> and nothing stops you from saying 'i accept payment in bitcoin' on your ebay auctions, either.
1214 2011-03-14 19:49:02 <EvanR-work> bitcoins are confiscated at the door to ebay
1215 2011-03-14 19:49:10 <defaced> evan lol
1216 2011-03-14 19:49:28 <defaced> i just bought an oz of silver =]
1217 2011-03-14 19:49:30 <EvanR-work> and the bouncer says 'hey buddy why dont you go over there and try a paypal;
1218 2011-03-14 19:49:38 <MagicalTux> genjix: ?
1219 2011-03-14 19:49:45 <defaced> no
1220 2011-03-14 19:50:00 amiller has joined
1221 2011-03-14 19:50:01 <luke-jr> does biddingpond charge fees?
1222 2011-03-14 19:50:18 <defaced> from a local dealer, but im wanting to start a precious metals for bitcoin service
1223 2011-03-14 19:50:35 <EvanR-work> via mail?
1224 2011-03-14 19:50:43 <defaced> sure
1225 2011-03-14 19:50:43 <EvanR-work> or like pgaux
1226 2011-03-14 19:50:53 <defaced> mail if the user doesnt mind
1227 2011-03-14 19:51:01 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1228 2011-03-14 19:51:03 <luke-jr> defaced: how much for silver?
1229 2011-03-14 19:51:23 <EvanR-work> of course the btc price is determine by mtgox * spot price ;)
1230 2011-03-14 19:51:27 <EvanR-work> in USD
1231 2011-03-14 19:51:30 <nanotube> EvanR-work: haha well, you probably would get a bigger audience if you do accept paypal, rather than bitcoin-only...
1232 2011-03-14 19:51:46 Bosma has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
1233 2011-03-14 19:52:21 <EvanR-work> nanotube: are you allowed to not accept paypal?
1234 2011-03-14 19:52:23 <defaced> i just paid $40 for the oz, that was 35 for going price of silver 2$ for the guy i bought it from and 3$ for tax
1235 2011-03-14 19:52:47 <EvanR-work> $3 sales tax? or tax on precious metals?
1236 2011-03-14 19:53:06 <defaced> i believe it was sales tax but should of been precious metal tax
1237 2011-03-14 19:53:08 <luke-jr> defaced: so can I buy it for 40 BTC shipped?
1238 2011-03-14 19:53:10 <defaced> could*
1239 2011-03-14 19:53:26 <EvanR-work> oz in what form, a coin?
1240 2011-03-14 19:53:38 <defaced> a "round" its .999
1241 2011-03-14 19:53:47 <defaced> i can get bars too
1242 2011-03-14 19:53:53 <defaced> if u prefer bar
1243 2011-03-14 19:54:20 <EvanR-work> seems like silver is at an all time high price
1244 2011-03-14 19:54:20 <defaced> i can proxy purchase online for 1/2 oz's also.
1245 2011-03-14 19:54:37 <defaced> well silver is still really low compared to its historical ratio
1246 2011-03-14 19:54:46 <EvanR-work> wut >_>
1247 2011-03-14 19:54:51 <defaced> its usually 1/16th the price of gold
1248 2011-03-14 19:54:52 <EvanR-work> oh ratio
1249 2011-03-14 19:54:57 <EvanR-work> screw that
1250 2011-03-14 19:55:10 <luke-jr> defaced: so can I buy it for 40 BTC shipped?
1251 2011-03-14 19:55:25 <defaced> luke-jr id have to check shipping charges and if u want insurance or not
1252 2011-03-14 19:55:52 <defaced> silver, id want insurance, imjustsayin
1253 2011-03-14 19:56:20 <EvanR-work> id buy insurance as long as i can have my insurance payments back when nothing happens
1254 2011-03-14 19:56:49 <defaced> lol thats the postal office responsibility lol. i wish it worked that way
1255 2011-03-14 19:57:06 <genjix> MagicalTux: hey
1256 2011-03-14 19:57:16 <MagicalTux> hi
1257 2011-03-14 19:57:29 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4086.40
1258 2011-03-14 19:57:42 <genjix> me and gavin are wondering if you know about this?
1259 2011-03-14 19:57:45 <defaced> right now this is just an idea that im going to think over. because i need the answers to these questions before i can make a deff answer. i hate being unfair.
1260 2011-03-14 19:57:49 <genjix> are PHP floats always double?
1261 2011-03-14 19:57:59 <EvanR-work> yes
1262 2011-03-14 19:58:03 <genjix> because the JSON in bitcoin returns floats
1263 2011-03-14 19:58:14 <EvanR-work> JSON isnt float or double
1264 2011-03-14 19:58:17 <genjix> my branch converts the values to string
1265 2011-03-14 19:58:29 <genjix> (and uses GMP)
1266 2011-03-14 19:58:30 <MagicalTux> genjix: depends if your system is 32 or 64 bits
1267 2011-03-14 19:58:41 <Diablo-D3> your mom is float or double
1268 2011-03-14 19:58:44 <genjix> gavin says the fix is for people to multiply be e08 and cast to int
1269 2011-03-14 19:58:48 <genjix> i disagree
1270 2011-03-14 19:59:16 <MagicalTux> genjix: there shouldn't be any precision loss anyway
1271 2011-03-14 19:59:21 <Diablo-D3> yes there is.
1272 2011-03-14 19:59:23 <Diablo-D3> Im the programmer here.
1273 2011-03-14 19:59:29 <Diablo-D3> _you dont fucking do that_
1274 2011-03-14 19:59:36 <ArtForz> sure you can
1275 2011-03-14 19:59:44 <EvanR-work> dont trust php with your numeric data
1276 2011-03-14 19:59:45 <Diablo-D3> it should be sent as a fucking *e08 long to begin with
1277 2011-03-14 19:59:54 <MagicalTux> the API *should* work with int
1278 2011-03-14 20:00:01 <genjix> MagicalTux: php -r '$val=0.94; printf("%d", round(1e8*$val));'
1279 2011-03-14 20:00:03 <MagicalTux> but I tested the floats and they are fine, for now
1280 2011-03-14 20:00:14 <MagicalTux> shit
1281 2011-03-14 20:00:16 <genjix> not for me. floats have rounding errors
1282 2011-03-14 20:00:17 <MagicalTux> earthquake
1283 2011-03-14 20:00:21 <genjix> :(
1284 2011-03-14 20:00:23 <genjix> stay sage
1285 2011-03-14 20:00:24 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: luckily it's sent... as a text string
1286 2011-03-14 20:00:25 <genjix> safe
1287 2011-03-14 20:00:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: nope, its sent as a json number not a json string
1288 2011-03-14 20:00:49 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux: still? dam man, I though you were in Tokyo though
1289 2011-03-14 20:00:50 <ArtForz> so?
1290 2011-03-14 20:01:01 <EvanR-work> json number is text
1291 2011-03-14 20:01:04 <genjix> MagicalTux: but aren't bicoin ints out of range of php ints?
1292 2011-03-14 20:01:05 <ArtForz> yep
1293 2011-03-14 20:01:06 <ArtForz> I'm parsing json numbers to Decimal.decimal
1294 2011-03-14 20:01:08 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so? php is fucking retarded
1295 2011-03-14 20:01:12 <ArtForz> yep
1296 2011-03-14 20:01:14 <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: I am in Tokyo, and stuff is moving too much
1297 2011-03-14 20:01:15 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt let you recover the original string.
1298 2011-03-14 20:01:21 <luke-jr> I can get 160x 1.1oz .999 pure silver coins for $6,365.92 :P
1299 2011-03-14 20:01:32 <ArtForz> wow, thats... bad
1300 2011-03-14 20:01:44 <ArtForz> okay, my code is horrible in other ways
1301 2011-03-14 20:01:53 <genjix> ArtForz: yeah php doesn't allow me to specify my custom type for floats
1302 2011-03-14 20:02:07 <EvanR-work> in haskell its decoded as a rational
1303 2011-03-14 20:02:09 <genjix> i have to use a custom bitcoin that uses strings
1304 2011-03-14 20:02:12 <defaced> luke-jr awesome!
1305 2011-03-14 20:02:26 <nanotube> EvanR-work: i think so. there are options for 'cash in person' and 'personal check'...
1306 2011-03-14 20:02:34 <ArtForz> I'm using json + not-really-http on top of async sockets to talk to bitcoins not-really-http json-rpc server
1307 2011-03-14 20:02:48 <Diablo-D3> yeah fuck that
1308 2011-03-14 20:02:51 <EvanR-work> they should standardize not-really-http
1309 2011-03-14 20:02:58 <Diablo-D3> Im just going to do json rest over websockets.
1310 2011-03-14 20:03:04 <ArtForz> aka "lets just slap a few http-looking headers on it and call it http"
1311 2011-03-14 20:03:06 <EvanR-work> nanotube: oh interesting
1312 2011-03-14 20:03:18 <Diablo-D3> anyhow Im going to bed
1313 2011-03-14 20:03:19 <Diablo-D3> night all
1314 2011-03-14 20:03:23 <genjix> heh maybe they should use a json lib than rolling their own
1315 2011-03-14 20:03:26 <genjix> *we
1316 2011-03-14 20:03:49 <ArtForz> I think the problem is, *any* json number is a float
1317 2011-03-14 20:04:04 <ArtForz> well, a ieee double, really
1318 2011-03-14 20:04:05 <genjix> yep. strings are better.
1319 2011-03-14 20:04:07 <MagicalTux> php doesn't cast json integers to floats
1320 2011-03-14 20:04:23 <ArtForz> check the json spec, no integers in there
1321 2011-03-14 20:04:23 <genjix> and what size are the integers?
1322 2011-03-14 20:04:28 <genjix> always int51+?
1323 2011-03-14 20:04:54 <genjix> yeah it's because javascript has no concept of int or float
1324 2011-03-14 20:04:58 <ArtForz> yep
1325 2011-03-14 20:05:09 <ArtForz> iirc theres a few broken C json libraries that try to parse integery json numbers as int32s
1326 2011-03-14 20:05:46 <luke-jr> ArtForz: JSON doesn't define Number as any kind of type
1327 2011-03-14 20:05:56 <EvanR-work> json numbers arent floats
1328 2011-03-14 20:06:07 <Diablo-D3> erm, json numbers ARE floats
1329 2011-03-14 20:06:10 <ArtForz> no, json numebrs are javascript numbers
1330 2011-03-14 20:06:11 <EvanR-work> no
1331 2011-03-14 20:06:12 <Diablo-D3> it just needs a . in it
1332 2011-03-14 20:06:14 <EvanR-work> no
1333 2011-03-14 20:06:16 <ArtForz> and those are... doubles
1334 2011-03-14 20:06:23 <EvanR-work> the decoder is free to decode as it pleases
1335 2011-03-14 20:06:23 <Diablo-D3> well, floats, doubles, same thing
1336 2011-03-14 20:06:24 <genjix> it's such a matter of contention... just use strings already.
1337 2011-03-14 20:06:28 <EvanR-work> which is 'number' is js, which is double
1338 2011-03-14 20:06:31 <Diablo-D3> EvanR-work: exactly
1339 2011-03-14 20:06:37 <Diablo-D3> and its floating point
1340 2011-03-14 20:06:41 <Diablo-D3> its floating point
1341 2011-03-14 20:06:43 <luke-jr> genjix: RPCv1 works fine
1342 2011-03-14 20:06:48 <EvanR-work> you dont have to use floating point to represent it
1343 2011-03-14 20:07:00 <Diablo-D3> yes, I can use my foot up your ass to represent it
1344 2011-03-14 20:07:04 <genjix> luke-jr:
1345 2011-03-14 20:07:04 <Diablo-D3> it seems to be a better fit
1346 2011-03-14 20:07:19 <Diablo-D3> <someone who doesnt code> blah blah blah
1347 2011-03-14 20:07:19 <EvanR-work> theres no agreed limits or restrictions as long as its 'representable as a string of digits'
1348 2011-03-14 20:07:23 <Diablo-D3> <someone who does> no
1349 2011-03-14 20:07:23 <genjix> "If the problem is jsonrpc-supporting-environments that don't support double-precision floats, then multiplying and slapping a zero on the end won't fix the problem-- you'll just either lose precision as it gets squeezed into a 32-bit float or get a 32-bit-integer-overflow error."
1350 2011-03-14 20:07:31 <Diablo-D3> * someone who doesnt KEEPS TALKING
1351 2011-03-14 20:07:36 <ArtForz> ROFL
1352 2011-03-14 20:07:41 <EvanR-work> Diablo-D3 are you referring to me?
1353 2011-03-14 20:07:45 <ArtForz> http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ecma-st/ECMA-262.pdf
1354 2011-03-14 20:07:47 <Diablo-D3> yes.
1355 2011-03-14 20:07:49 <EvanR-work> ah
1356 2011-03-14 20:08:00 <ArtForz> "Final final final final draft"
1357 2011-03-14 20:08:03 <EvanR-work> ecma262 != json
1358 2011-03-14 20:08:12 <ArtForz> actually it is
1359 2011-03-14 20:08:17 <Diablo-D3> anyhow
1360 2011-03-14 20:08:18 <EvanR-work> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4627.txt
1361 2011-03-14 20:08:18 <luke-jr> actually it isn't
1362 2011-03-14 20:08:19 <Diablo-D3> Im going to bed
1363 2011-03-14 20:08:24 <Diablo-D3> night all
1364 2011-03-14 20:08:49 <ArtForz> 9.1.  Normative References
1365 2011-03-14 20:08:49 <ArtForz>    [ECMA]    European Computer Manufacturers Association, "ECMAScript
1366 2011-03-14 20:08:49 <ArtForz>              Language Specification 3rd Edition", December 1999,
1367 2011-03-14 20:08:49 <ArtForz>              <http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/
1368 2011-03-14 20:08:49 <ArtForz>              ecma-st/ECMA-262.pdf>.
1369 2011-03-14 20:09:21 <EvanR-work> and?
1370 2011-03-14 20:09:31 <ArtForz>    JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a text format for the
1371 2011-03-14 20:09:31 <ArtForz>    serialization of structured data.  It is derived from the object
1372 2011-03-14 20:09:31 <ArtForz>    literals of JavaScript, as defined in the ECMAScript Programming
1373 2011-03-14 20:09:31 <ArtForz>    Language Standard, Third Edition [ECMA].
1374 2011-03-14 20:09:43 <EvanR-work> referring to syntax, not semantics
1375 2011-03-14 20:09:49 <luke-jr> derived from != subset of
1376 2011-03-14 20:09:49 <genjix> javascript is ECMA
1377 2011-03-14 20:10:02 <ArtForz>    JSON's design goals were for it to be minimal, portable, textual, and
1378 2011-03-14 20:10:02 <ArtForz>    a subset of JavaScript.
1379 2011-03-14 20:10:15 <ArtForz> a subset of javascript, AS DEFINED IN THE FUCKING JAVASCRIPT SPEC
1380 2011-03-14 20:10:23 <EvanR-work> uh huh
1381 2011-03-14 20:10:31 <EvanR-work> fuck that
1382 2011-03-14 20:10:35 <luke-jr> RPCv1 still works.
1383 2011-03-14 20:10:36 <luke-jr> :p
1384 2011-03-14 20:10:44 <genjix> "If the problem is jsonrpc-supporting-environments that don't support double-precision floats, then multiplying and slapping a zero on the end won't fix the problem-- you'll just either lose precision as it gets squeezed into a 32-bit float or get a 32-bit-integer-overflow error."
1385 2011-03-14 20:10:52 <genjix> what do you say to that?
1386 2011-03-14 20:11:07 <luke-jr> genjix: there is no way to get around that
1387 2011-03-14 20:11:14 <luke-jr> no sane way*
1388 2011-03-14 20:11:15 <ArtForz> and I ROFLD at the Final final final final draft Standard
1389 2011-03-14 20:11:15 <genjix> use strings
1390 2011-03-14 20:11:20 <luke-jr> genjix: that's not sane
1391 2011-03-14 20:11:21 <ArtForz> I wonder if it's... final?
1392 2011-03-14 20:11:27 <genjix> why is it not sane?
1393 2011-03-14 20:11:33 <luke-jr> genjix: because it's a number
1394 2011-03-14 20:11:34 <genjix> it's perfectly fine to use strings
1395 2011-03-14 20:11:38 <genjix> so
1396 2011-03-14 20:11:54 <genjix> gmp decimal.Decimal and most other libs accept strings
1397 2011-03-14 20:12:07 <ArtForz> yeah
1398 2011-03-14 20:12:12 <luke-jr> the whole point of JSON is to do the parsing for you
1399 2011-03-14 20:12:13 <genjix> you're meant to combine it with a large number library
1400 2011-03-14 20:12:22 <EvanR-work> ArtForz: the syntax is definitely a subset of javascript. and the number 1e310 is valid spelling of a number in js
1401 2011-03-14 20:12:23 <luke-jr> if you put a number as a string, you're basically defeating that point
1402 2011-03-14 20:12:26 <ArtForz> the only way to sanely pass numbers in JSON is to... use strings
1403 2011-03-14 20:12:29 <genjix> boo-hoo, you make a wrapper class to handle bitcoin for you
1404 2011-03-14 20:12:48 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1405 2011-03-14 20:12:57 <ArtForz> or ... dont use 32 bit floats
1406 2011-03-14 20:13:08 dabron has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1407 2011-03-14 20:13:49 <genjix> class Bitcoin  @property def balance(self): return decimal.Decimal(self.access.getbalance())/10**8
1408 2011-03-14 20:15:10 <luke-jr> genjix: NO
1409 2011-03-14 20:15:38 <genjix> it works
1410 2011-03-14 20:15:52 <luke-jr> that returns a BTC value
1411 2011-03-14 20:15:56 <luke-jr> which should never be internals
1412 2011-03-14 20:16:11 <EvanR-work> yeah dont mix the presentation with the raw data
1413 2011-03-14 20:16:18 <luke-jr> also, self.access.getbalance() already solves all the precision problems itself
1414 2011-03-14 20:16:41 <luke-jr> so just use that directly
1415 2011-03-14 20:16:45 <genjix> not unless you're using my modified json-rpc library
1416 2011-03-14 20:16:52 <genjix> otherwise no. it doesn't.
1417 2011-03-14 20:16:55 <luke-jr> it does
1418 2011-03-14 20:17:01 <luke-jr> in Spesmilo master
1419 2011-03-14 20:17:04 <luke-jr> I fixed it a while ago
1420 2011-03-14 20:17:17 <genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_tutorial_%28JSON-RPC%29#Python
1421 2011-03-14 20:17:21 shennyg has joined
1422 2011-03-14 20:17:23 <genjix> you need to use that class i pasted there
1423 2011-03-14 20:17:37 <luke-jr> wait, I was thinking self.access was a core_interface
1424 2011-03-14 20:17:56 <genjix> no :p i mean the actual handle
1425 2011-03-14 20:17:56 <shennyg> what is the easiest way to get started mining my GPU on a i7 iMac?
1426 2011-03-14 20:18:16 <genjix> shennyg: don't. not worth your time
1427 2011-03-14 20:18:16 <luke-jr> genjix: your code is still terribly broken :P
1428 2011-03-14 20:18:25 <luke-jr> shennyg: Macs suck
1429 2011-03-14 20:18:28 <genjix> babysit someones kids
1430 2011-03-14 20:18:52 <luke-jr> genjix: def balance(self): return self._fromAmount(self.access.getbalance())
1431 2011-03-14 20:18:54 <luke-jr> genjix: done
1432 2011-03-14 20:19:47 <shennyg> are you saying that b/c you are a fanboy or b/c realistically I shouldn't waste my time?
1433 2011-03-14 20:20:10 <luke-jr> shennyg: because you'll never get anything
1434 2011-03-14 20:20:19 <luke-jr> err, GPU, so maybe someday
1435 2011-03-14 20:20:23 <luke-jr> but probably months
1436 2011-03-14 20:20:33 <ArtForz> well, either osxs opencl implementation is horribly broken or simply no one figured out the magic incantation to make it not suck yet
1437 2011-03-14 20:20:35 <BlueMatt> shennyg: what kind of mac, you mean a macbook?
1438 2011-03-14 20:21:03 <shennyg> iMac i7 with ATI Radeon HD 4850
1439 2011-03-14 20:21:12 <luke-jr> O.o
1440 2011-03-14 20:21:14 <luke-jr> it has ATi?
1441 2011-03-14 20:21:14 <genjix> MagicalTux: btw did you read my mail?
1442 2011-03-14 20:21:14 <shennyg> 512MB
1443 2011-03-14 20:21:21 <shennyg> yes.
1444 2011-03-14 20:21:27 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 75300
1445 2011-03-14 20:21:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75300 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 7 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, 12 minutes, and 37 seconds
1446 2011-03-14 20:21:55 <ArtForz> yep, using a sane OS it should get ~75Mh/s
1447 2011-03-14 20:22:33 <midnightmagic> shennyg: ignore the rude comments, he doesn't speak for the majority of bitcoin users and developers.
1448 2011-03-14 20:22:42 <luke-jr> shennyg: you'd get 50 BTC in the next 2 months
1449 2011-03-14 20:22:43 <ArtForz> what?
1450 2011-03-14 20:22:44 <shennyg> thanks midnightmagic
1451 2011-03-14 20:22:52 <genjix> he speaks for me :)
1452 2011-03-14 20:22:55 satamusic has joined
1453 2011-03-14 20:22:57 <genjix> mac sucks
1454 2011-03-14 20:22:58 <luke-jr> shennyg: then probably another within 3-4 months after that
1455 2011-03-14 20:23:03 <ArtForz> iirc diablominer and pyoclbm both 'work' on OSX
1456 2011-03-14 20:23:08 <phantomcircuit> shennyg, os x is a terribly constructed os
1457 2011-03-14 20:23:12 <midnightmagic> don't be rude, it's not the way to win converts from new users.
1458 2011-03-14 20:23:13 <luke-jr> ArtForz: only the bleeding edge OS X
1459 2011-03-14 20:23:16 <shennyg> right now I am running diablominer.
1460 2011-03-14 20:23:43 <phantomcircuit> ffs any user could read the swap file up until about 2003
1461 2011-03-14 20:23:43 <ArtForz> as in, "they run, but they're way slower than they should be"
1462 2011-03-14 20:23:49 <genjix> maybe you should sell your mac osux and buy some bitcoins and a faster computer?
1463 2011-03-14 20:24:00 <shennyg> I have no clue if it is working. it says 42430/46091 khash/sec but every 30 secs it says "ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Connection refused"
1464 2011-03-14 20:24:11 <MagicalTux> genjix: couldn't find time for that yet, got a few issues to fix here first
1465 2011-03-14 20:24:20 <shennyg> and I have no clue what user/pass I should be using.
1466 2011-03-14 20:24:27 <midnightmagic> genjix: come on man how is that even remotely helping?
1467 2011-03-14 20:24:30 <phantomcircuit> shennyg, sounds like you didnt start bitcoin with -server
1468 2011-03-14 20:24:33 <shennyg> can someone explain what the user/pass if for?
1469 2011-03-14 20:24:51 <ArtForz> iirc theres a nice tutorial on the forums... somewhere
1470 2011-03-14 20:24:58 <justmoon> shennyg: the miner connects to the official bitcoin client using an API (JSON-RPC)
1471 2011-03-14 20:25:07 <defaced> shennyg what justmoon said
1472 2011-03-14 20:25:09 <shennyg> ahh. ok.
1473 2011-03-14 20:25:10 <phantomcircuit> shennyg, you have to start bitcoin as `bitcoin -server` and put the rpc user/pass into ~/.bitcoin/config
1474 2011-03-14 20:25:10 <midnightmagic> shennyg: the user/pass is for when you configure your local bitcoin with a user/pass (so not just anybody can connect and spend your coins, for example) or if you mine in a pool with other people, in which case you are telling the pool who to award your shares to.
1475 2011-03-14 20:25:37 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 46000
1476 2011-03-14 20:25:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 11 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes, and 3 seconds
1477 2011-03-14 20:26:11 <luke-jr> shennyg: with that hashrate, you'll be waiting over a year probably
1478 2011-03-14 20:26:17 <phantomcircuit> shennyg, however 42MH/s is about half what you should be getting
1479 2011-03-14 20:26:28 <midnightmagic> 11 weeks != a year.
1480 2011-03-14 20:26:49 <midnightmagic> also, he can pool mine, in which case, it'll be somewhere close to:
1481 2011-03-14 20:26:54 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,gen 46000
1482 2011-03-14 20:27:06 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 46000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 0.607241030637 BTC per day and 0.0253017096099 BTC per hour.
1483 2011-03-14 20:27:10 <BlueMatt> god mac has its problems but so does windows and so does linux, none of them are perfect...leave the personal stuff out of this
1484 2011-03-14 20:27:34 <BlueMatt> If osx's implementation of ocl is shit, then say that, not mac osx sucks because it does
1485 2011-03-14 20:27:36 <justmoon> also difficulty will likely lower a little in 10 days or so (what's the bot command for that?)
1486 2011-03-14 20:27:48 <ArtForz> ;;bc,estimate
1487 2011-03-14 20:27:49 <gribble> 66579.36628015
1488 2011-03-14 20:27:50 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stat
1489 2011-03-14 20:27:51 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
1490 2011-03-14 20:27:53 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
1491 2011-03-14 20:27:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113550 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1361 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 6 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66579.36628015
1492 2011-03-14 20:28:11 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,gend 46000 [bc,estimate]
1493 2011-03-14 20:28:13 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 46000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 66579.36628015, is 0.694931599564 BTC per day and 0.0289554833152 BTC per hour.
1494 2011-03-14 20:28:15 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: it goes up every 2 weeks
1495 2011-03-14 20:28:25 <justmoon> luke-jr: or down
1496 2011-03-14 20:28:32 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, os x sucks because apple cares more about the UI than actual problems
1497 2011-03-14 20:28:36 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, it's pretty simple
1498 2011-03-14 20:29:01 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: In my experience with osx that is not true at all
1499 2011-03-14 20:29:18 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: but again I dont want to discuss fanboy os wars on bitcoin-dev
1500 2011-03-14 20:29:34 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, do you know what launchd is?
1501 2011-03-14 20:29:38 <midnightmagic> sweeping generalisations. again, totally unhelpful.
1502 2011-03-14 20:29:57 <ArtForz> 42Mh/s from a card that is getting 75 on windows and linux... hmmm...
1503 2011-03-14 20:29:58 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes and it works pretty well afa im concerned
1504 2011-03-14 20:30:07 <ArtForz> yes, cant see how OSX doesnt totally rock
1505 2011-03-14 20:30:20 <BlueMatt> well clearly their ocl implementation is shit
1506 2011-03-14 20:30:24 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you realize that they took crond, init, and like ten other systems and just shoved them all into one right?
1507 2011-03-14 20:30:35 <BlueMatt> which I find odd considering apple was one of the key writers/backers of ocl
1508 2011-03-14 20:30:42 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: so?
1509 2011-03-14 20:30:52 <phantomcircuit> it's a mess?
1510 2011-03-14 20:31:09 <shennyg> how do I start bitcoind on a mac?
1511 2011-03-14 20:31:13 <ArtForz> I'm just saying, OSX is about the worst possible OS for GPU mining
1512 2011-03-14 20:31:33 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: there, now that's more of an evidence-based opinion. :)
1513 2011-03-14 20:31:41 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, i think they've got ReactOS beat
1514 2011-03-14 20:31:51 <ArtForz> hell, I got half of my relatives to switch to macs
1515 2011-03-14 20:31:55 <midnightmagic> phantomcircuit: so?
1516 2011-03-14 20:32:05 <phantomcircuit> OS X is nice if you never do anything that apples hasn't anticipated ever
1517 2011-03-14 20:32:07 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: yeah, me too. i haven't heard back from any of them.
1518 2011-03-14 20:32:10 <ArtForz> way less breakage than windoze
1519 2011-03-14 20:32:10 <phantomcircuit> otherwise good luck with taht
1520 2011-03-14 20:32:11 <midnightmagic> and it's glorious.
1521 2011-03-14 20:32:32 <ArtForz> and when I'm on vacation I dont want to fix fucking windoze trojan zoos
1522 2011-03-14 20:32:51 <phantomcircuit> lol
1523 2011-03-14 20:33:07 <phantomcircuit> there is a massive volume of code for windows malware
1524 2011-03-14 20:33:17 <phantomcircuit> give the poor cyber criminals a chance to catch up!
1525 2011-03-14 20:33:29 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I doubt it. ReactOS is binary-compatible with Win drivers
1526 2011-03-14 20:33:30 <BlueMatt> for average users osx has many advantages over windows and linux, for people who REALLY know what they are doing it becomes a fanboy war...
1527 2011-03-14 20:33:47 <midnightmagic> i've never personally seen a single os/x virus/trojan/malware in the wild.
1528 2011-03-14 20:34:05 <ArtForz> well, if you know what you are doing, any OS can usually be coaxed to do what you need
1529 2011-03-14 20:34:39 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: exactly
1530 2011-03-14 20:34:45 <midnightmagic> Art is back to speaking gospel. thanks art. :)
1531 2011-03-14 20:34:59 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, well i have, since i wrote it
1532 2011-03-14 20:35:25 <phantomcircuit> which is the only reason i know launchd is a mess
1533 2011-03-14 20:35:26 <midnightmagic> phantomcircuit: that's not technically in the wild.
1534 2011-03-14 20:35:38 <phantomcircuit> oh it's definitely in the wild
1535 2011-03-14 20:35:45 <phantomcircuit> although it doesn't spread at all
1536 2011-03-14 20:35:46 <midnightmagic> not if you wrote it and put it there.
1537 2011-03-14 20:35:50 <ArtForz> lol
1538 2011-03-14 20:36:36 <lfm> phantomcircuit: are you sure you know what "is" means?
1539 2011-03-14 20:36:53 <ArtForz> that depends on what the definition of is is?
1540 2011-03-14 20:37:08 <midnightmagic> augggh! he said the word!
1541 2011-03-14 20:37:20 <phantomcircuit> lfm, what?
1542 2011-03-14 20:38:01 <lfm> phantomcircuit: well you dont seem to knwo what "virus" means
1543 2011-03-14 20:38:09 <ArtForz> yup, writing experimental malware is fun
1544 2011-03-14 20:38:09 <midnightmagic> I'm going to rewrite my log to  <phantomcircuit> lfm, what, "is"?
1545 2011-03-14 20:38:18 <phantomcircuit> lfm, <midnightmagic> i've never personally seen a single os/x virus/trojan/malware in the wild.
1546 2011-03-14 20:38:25 <phantomcircuit> lfm, he didn't say virus
1547 2011-03-14 20:38:40 <phantomcircuit> he said virus/trojan/malware, which is to say malware
1548 2011-03-14 20:38:48 <ArtForz> just *never* send the source for a single-packet UDP worm to a bunch of guys you only know from the internet
1549 2011-03-14 20:38:59 <midnightmagic> it's an inclusive label in which i meant to include all three types.
1550 2011-03-14 20:39:22 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, well yes
1551 2011-03-14 20:39:28 <phantomcircuit> because that's how it's defined
1552 2011-03-14 20:39:34 <midnightmagic> but i suppose my experience with os/x is technically limited, so that's not saying much.
1553 2011-03-14 20:39:39 <lfm> and malware that doesnt spread is hardly in the wild
1554 2011-03-14 20:40:00 <justmoon> ArtForz: yeah, just send the UDP packet instead :P
1555 2011-03-14 20:40:01 <phantomcircuit> lfm, uh so a trojan horse is not malware?
1556 2011-03-14 20:40:02 <phantomcircuit> right
1557 2011-03-14 20:40:08 <ArtForz> well, someone I know did just that a few years ago. 2 days later we had SQL slammer
1558 2011-03-14 20:40:21 <phantomcircuit> lol
1559 2011-03-14 20:40:45 <phantomcircuit> the guy who wrote the work on myspace stole the injection from a 12yro
1560 2011-03-14 20:41:02 <phantomcircuit> (who was using it to inject goatse...)
1561 2011-03-14 20:41:09 lyspooner has joined
1562 2011-03-14 20:41:14 <justmoon> teenagers have something adults don't: time.
1563 2011-03-14 20:41:30 <midnightmagic> shennyg: anyway, the point is you might want to consider mining in one of the pools so you don't have to wait an average of 11 weeks before seeing any bitcoins at all.
1564 2011-03-14 20:41:36 <defaced> justmoon u are a scholar
1565 2011-03-14 20:41:47 <midnightmagic> +1, justmoon
1566 2011-03-14 20:42:18 <justmoon> :)
1567 2011-03-14 20:42:30 <justmoon> speaking of which
1568 2011-03-14 20:42:34 <justmoon> gotta get back to work :)
1569 2011-03-14 20:43:38 phantomcircuit is now known as SirGuismon
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1572 2011-03-14 20:44:31 SirGuismon is now known as phantomcircuit
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1578 2011-03-14 20:58:34 <luke-jr> anyone else notice Chrome doesn't use HTTP when it goes to Google sites? :P
1579 2011-03-14 20:58:48 <sipa> really?
1580 2011-03-14 20:58:53 <luke-jr> apparently.
1581 2011-03-14 20:59:17 <BlueMatt> wait what does it use?
1582 2011-03-14 20:59:19 <shennyg> can someone send me some bitcoin? 19yQCKQZyvN3aGGwHYBWc346np65z4dsxF I'd like to test out my new setup
1583 2011-03-14 20:59:54 <sipa> shennyg: use the test network :)
1584 2011-03-14 20:59:54 <luke-jr> SPDY
1585 2011-03-14 21:00:38 nanotube has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1586 2011-03-14 21:00:39 <BlueMatt> shennyg: or the faucet
1587 2011-03-14 21:00:47 <shennyg> sipa all I need to do is restart using the --test flag?
1588 2011-03-14 21:00:51 <luke-jr> Wireshark shows my Chromium using HTTP :/
1589 2011-03-14 21:01:01 <sipa> shennyg: -testnet
1590 2011-03-14 21:01:07 ovatork has joined
1591 2011-03-14 21:01:14 <shennyg> sipa: thanks
1592 2011-03-14 21:01:21 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so, why the original post?
1593 2011-03-14 21:01:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: forum discussions
1594 2011-03-14 21:01:37 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1595 2011-03-14 21:01:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: was looking into ideas for the new Wallet protocol
1596 2011-03-14 21:01:50 <sipa> shennyg: to be honest, there are very few miners on the testnet now, so it could take a while
1597 2011-03-14 21:02:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah
1598 2011-03-14 21:02:18 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, iirc you can emulate most of that simply by increasing the initial tcp window size
1599 2011-03-14 21:02:29 <luke-jr> SPDY could be used to keep a simple HTTP-oriented protocol for simple tasks, while providing a single bidirectional connection for UIs
1600 2011-03-14 21:02:44 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you can emulating multiple concurrent requests over HTTP? :p
1601 2011-03-14 21:03:09 <luke-jr> this would also give the troll his REST interface
1602 2011-03-14 21:03:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah you use multiple connections :P
1603 2011-03-14 21:03:44 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that's ugly and slow
1604 2011-03-14 21:03:53 <phantomcircuit> well it's ugly
1605 2011-03-14 21:03:59 <luke-jr> and problem-prone
1606 2011-03-14 21:05:20 <luke-jr> can probably support legacy JSON-RPC over the same listenign socket :P
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1608 2011-03-14 21:05:51 <phantomcircuit> legacy JSON-RPC is simple
1609 2011-03-14 21:05:55 <phantomcircuit> just dont remove the old code
1610 2011-03-14 21:05:57 <phantomcircuit> shazam
1611 2011-03-14 21:06:00 <phantomcircuit> xD
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1616 2011-03-14 21:13:59 <sprash> Some guy is making many 0.01 BTC transactions consecutively to the same Adress. Is this system abuse? how can we stop this behaviour?
1617 2011-03-14 21:14:27 <ArtForz> yeah, plain old tx flooding
1618 2011-03-14 21:14:36 <BlueMatt> sprash: yes it is, stop it...not really ish
1619 2011-03-14 21:15:11 <ArtForz> shouldnt cause much issues as we already have some safeguards in place, rate limiting in next rev should cut it down even further
1620 2011-03-14 21:15:31 <sprash> when is the next rev coming?
1621 2011-03-14 21:15:46 <ArtForz> dunno, probably whenever gavin thinks it's ready
1622 2011-03-14 21:16:22 larsivi has joined
1623 2011-03-14 21:16:30 <ArtForz> and it's not like 150 queued spam transactions cause any problems
1624 2011-03-14 21:17:00 <sprash> they fill up blocks
1625 2011-03-14 21:17:10 <ArtForz> up to the 4kB limit
1626 2011-03-14 21:17:29 eao has joined
1627 2011-03-14 21:17:32 <ArtForz> thats... half a meg a day...
1628 2011-03-14 21:18:01 <lyspooner> join bitcoin-monitor
1629 2011-03-14 21:18:05 <lyspooner> sorry
1630 2011-03-14 21:18:28 <ArtForz> so... those 180 or so MB/year are really gonna cause storage problems or something?
1631 2011-03-14 21:18:33 <sprash> what happens if all existing blocks have exeeded their transmission capacity?
1632 2011-03-14 21:18:48 <ArtForz> huh?
1633 2011-03-14 21:19:25 <ArtForz> fee-less transactions are ordered by their "priority" score = how non-spammy they look
1634 2011-03-14 21:19:29 <Syke__> tx spam will take the place of some legit txs, causing them to be confirmed slower
1635 2011-03-14 21:19:33 <ArtForz> nope
1636 2011-03-14 21:19:52 <phantomcircuit> well yeah if they're spammy looking txs
1637 2011-03-14 21:19:53 <ArtForz> unless your legit TX consist of continously sending around the same 0.01
1638 2011-03-14 21:20:01 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, mine do
1639 2011-03-14 21:20:02 <phantomcircuit> :P
1640 2011-03-14 21:20:15 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1641 2011-03-14 21:20:22 <Syke__> but if the spam is old, won't it eventually be prioritized over fresh small txes?
1642 2011-03-14 21:20:31 <ArtForz> yes
1643 2011-03-14 21:20:35 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1644 2011-03-14 21:20:43 <ArtForz> after a few dozen blocks or so
1645 2011-03-14 21:20:44 <sprash> How do you determine the difference between spam and real micropayment?
1646 2011-03-14 21:20:46 <ArtForz> *one* tx
1647 2011-03-14 21:20:51 <ArtForz> sprash: you dont
1648 2011-03-14 21:21:07 <ArtForz> for "bloating the chain" ... whats the difference between spam and micropayments?
1649 2011-03-14 21:21:23 echelon has joined
1650 2011-03-14 21:21:34 <sprash> but wasn't BitCoin intendet to be the solution for micropayment.
1651 2011-03-14 21:21:43 <jgarzik> gavin proposes bloating the chain?   :)  http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4459.0
1652 2011-03-14 21:21:47 <ArtForz> and why the fuck are you *sending* hundreds of micropayments?
1653 2011-03-14 21:21:53 <jgarzik> sprash: it was intended to be a digital currency
1654 2011-03-14 21:22:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I think increasing tx size is always bad, but its not really *that* bad is it? I mean no one has ever come up with a reason why it is sooo terrible
1655 2011-03-14 21:22:50 <sprash> but micropayment is important. The one reason so much stuff is being pirated is because there is no easy way for microtransactions
1656 2011-03-14 21:22:50 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: or have I missed something?
1657 2011-03-14 21:22:57 <ArtForz> sprash: debatable
1658 2011-03-14 21:23:16 <ArtForz> to the system as a whole low-value transactions provide low benefit with high cost
1659 2011-03-14 21:23:22 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, i dont know i think id be willing to pay 0.000001 BTC for office
1660 2011-03-14 21:23:43 <sprash> well for songy or old tv shows for example
1661 2011-03-14 21:23:55 <phantomcircuit> lol my "server" has been down for like 5 days because of faulty ram
1662 2011-03-14 21:24:07 <phantomcircuit> as soon as it went back up i got all the email that had been queued
1663 2011-03-14 21:24:09 <phantomcircuit> awesome
1664 2011-03-14 21:24:21 <phantomcircuit> <3 store&forward
1665 2011-03-14 21:24:52 <ArtForz> shrug, anyways, microtransactions and tx spam provide about the same cost/benefit, which is probably why we don't allow < 0.01 transactions
1666 2011-03-14 21:25:30 <ArtForz> not sure, but I think the priority code is also being worked on
1667 2011-03-14 21:25:35 <phantomcircuit> not to mention at current exchange rates 0.01 is < 0.01USD, so you might as well batch micro txs
1668 2011-03-14 21:25:58 <ArtForz> so you can make your small-ass tx skip ahead of the free spam by attaching a 0.0001 fee
1669 2011-03-14 21:26:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the entire BitDNS debate
1670 2011-03-14 21:26:30 <sprash> there has to be a way to bundle a lot of small transactions that go to one adress.
1671 2011-03-14 21:26:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: 512 bytes is simply an invitation to publish Lady Gaga songs in the block chain :)
1672 2011-03-14 21:26:59 <ArtForz> it probably still wont get priority over larger value tx with old inputs, but it should increase it's "non-spammyness" considerably
1673 2011-03-14 21:27:53 eao has joined
1674 2011-03-14 21:28:05 <justmoon> hmm if an address received a lot of microtransactions but then sent them on to another address bundled in one transaction the old transactions could get cleaned up from the block chain, no?
1675 2011-03-14 21:28:11 <ArtForz> yes
1676 2011-03-14 21:28:18 <ArtForz> but currently they arent
1677 2011-03-14 21:28:27 <justmoon> ok thx for info
1678 2011-03-14 21:28:29 <sprash> So if you offer for example a Newspaper article and a lot of people pay a small amount of cash to read it, only make a transaction when 1 BTC is reached, or something like that
1679 2011-03-14 21:28:31 <ArtForz> because no one implemented the tx tree pruning stuff yet
1680 2011-03-14 21:28:39 <ArtForz> pretty much
1681 2011-03-14 21:28:46 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yep, I fall on the side of txes are *just* txes but really that has less to do with problems and more to do with personal ideals
1682 2011-03-14 21:29:13 <Syke__> who's generating blocks with no txs? http://blockexplorer.com/b/113553
1683 2011-03-14 21:29:18 <ArtForz> for the "nonspammyness" of a transaction, it's pretty much sum(input value * input age) for all inputs
1684 2011-03-14 21:29:30 <jgarzik> Syke__: that's normal
1685 2011-03-14 21:29:44 <ArtForz> so just waiting for them to get a bunch of confirmations and then coalescing into a single larger unit should make it look rather non-spammy
1686 2011-03-14 21:30:24 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I tend to think using bitcoin for non-monetary uses has a realistic chance of killing this experiment before it really gets started
1687 2011-03-14 21:30:44 <jgarzik> by marginalizing currency users use of the block chain
1688 2011-03-14 21:31:04 <justmoon> jgarzik: I don't see that risk unless core devs suddenly go crazy
1689 2011-03-14 21:31:20 <phantomcircuit> well bitcoin fundamentally is a distributed notary service
1690 2011-03-14 21:31:20 <jgarzik> justmoon: it was a core dev that proposed this :)
1691 2011-03-14 21:31:26 <jgarzik> justmoon: scroll back
1692 2011-03-14 21:31:31 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yes
1693 2011-03-14 21:31:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: that is a good point, and one of the many, fairly minor, reasons for my choice
1694 2011-03-14 21:31:41 <justmoon> jgarzik: what are you referring to exactly?
1695 2011-03-14 21:31:43 <phantomcircuit> adding real information to the extra nonce wouldn't necessarily detract
1696 2011-03-14 21:32:23 <justmoon> jgarzik: oh you mean BlueMatt/BitDNS?
1697 2011-03-14 21:32:36 <jgarzik> justmoon: <jgarzik> gavin proposes bloating the chain?   :)  http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4459.0
1698 2011-03-14 21:33:08 defaced has joined
1699 2011-03-14 21:33:13 <genjix> jgarzik: i didnt think he was proposing to bloat the chain
1700 2011-03-14 21:33:30 <BlueMatt> genjix: well he proposed adding arbitrary data to the txes
1701 2011-03-14 21:33:58 <jgarzik> genjix: "new transaction type" implies a TX that we put into blocks
1702 2011-03-14 21:34:05 <genjix> actually seems like he's proposing 2 ideas
1703 2011-03-14 21:34:22 <genjix> ok i see
1704 2011-03-14 21:34:55 <genjix> i don't understand... the current way bitcoin works is fine
1705 2011-03-14 21:35:30 <genjix> why doesn't he change the wallet format then?
1706 2011-03-14 21:35:47 <genjix> i think accounts should be a tree
1707 2011-03-14 21:36:45 <sipa> you can already put arbitrary data in transactions
1708 2011-03-14 21:36:50 <sipa> at least, the protocol supports that
1709 2011-03-14 21:37:04 <sipa> to exploit it to recognize transactions, that's something else
1710 2011-03-14 21:38:24 <phantomcircuit> lol
1711 2011-03-14 21:38:51 <phantomcircuit> sipa, actually you cant
1712 2011-03-14 21:39:34 <phantomcircuit> the miner can put arbitrary data in the script field for the first tx, but all the other ones have to fill fit a pretty tight template
1713 2011-03-14 21:40:19 <phantomcircuit> but really that's a solution looking for a problem
1714 2011-03-14 21:40:27 <phantomcircuit> you can just have people give you the tx hash
1715 2011-03-14 21:40:27 <sipa> phantomcircuit: read my forum post
1716 2011-03-14 21:40:37 <phantomcircuit> however the current gui doesn't let you see it...
1717 2011-03-14 21:43:29 <justmoon> genjix: dumb question: can't I already store an arbitrary amount of data in the blockchain by encoding it imaginary recipient addresses?
1718 2011-03-14 21:43:41 <justmoon> encoding it in*
1719 2011-03-14 21:43:53 noagendamarket has joined
1720 2011-03-14 21:44:16 <sipa> if you're willing to lose money, yes
1721 2011-03-14 21:44:36 <justmoon> so just make storing data in the blockchain expensive
1722 2011-03-14 21:44:52 <phantomcircuit> well he could send very small tx's with very small fees
1723 2011-03-14 21:46:07 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1724 2011-03-14 21:48:20 puddinpop has joined
1725 2011-03-14 21:50:09 jostmey has joined
1726 2011-03-14 21:50:24 <noagendamarket> ;;bc,stats
1727 2011-03-14 21:53:18 <phantomcircuit> wat
1728 2011-03-14 21:53:40 jostmey has quit (Client Quit)
1729 2011-03-14 21:55:20 <ArtForz> awww, bot is gone
1730 2011-03-14 21:55:38 <BlueMatt> again?
1731 2011-03-14 21:56:01 <ArtForz> yea
1732 2011-03-14 22:00:41 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1733 2011-03-14 22:11:02 nanotube has joined
1734 2011-03-14 22:14:00 gribble has joined
1735 2011-03-14 22:15:46 <noagendamarket> ;;bc,stats
1736 2011-03-14 22:16:04 <noagendamarket> hmm
1737 2011-03-14 22:16:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113557 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1354 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 19 hours, 31 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66370.50516913
1738 2011-03-14 22:16:11 <noagendamarket> yay
1739 2011-03-14 22:17:25 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1740 2011-03-14 22:18:49 doublec has joined
1741 2011-03-14 22:18:49 doublec has quit (Changing host)
1742 2011-03-14 22:18:49 doublec has joined
1743 2011-03-14 22:20:10 <nanotube> hey, anyone mind if i add the chanlog url to the topic? and stopping BCBot from noticing people with it on every join?
1744 2011-03-14 22:21:42 <justmoon> nanotube: +1!!
1745 2011-03-14 22:21:53 <BlueMatt> nanotube: that is a freenode rule
1746 2011-03-14 22:21:59 <BlueMatt> nanotube: you have to notify people
1747 2011-03-14 22:22:13 <BlueMatt> nanotube: or maybe if its in topic its ok, I dont know
1748 2011-03-14 22:22:35 <blarzong> this is being logged? i take back what i said about goatsex
1749 2011-03-14 22:23:56 <justmoon> "If you're publishing logs on an ongoing basis, your channel topic should reflect that fact."
1750 2011-03-14 22:23:58 <nanotube> BlueMatt: topic counts as notification.
1751 2011-03-14 22:24:01 sprash has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1752 2011-03-14 22:24:11 <justmoon> http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
1753 2011-03-14 22:24:13 <nanotube> justmoon: tx for the quote
1754 2011-03-14 22:25:10 <justmoon> my mouse broke just as I wanted to post the source for the quote... good thing I always have a backup mouse connected 8-)
1755 2011-03-14 22:25:38 <nanotube> haha
1756 2011-03-14 22:26:01 <BlueMatt> justmoon: you keep 2 mice connected at all times? seems a bit odd
1757 2011-03-14 22:26:18 <justmoon> three actually
1758 2011-03-14 22:26:36 <justmoon> 1. normal logitech ... g5 or something
1759 2011-03-14 22:26:43 <justmoon> 2. evoluent verticalmouse
1760 2011-03-14 22:26:49 <justmoon> 3. RollerMouse Free
1761 2011-03-14 22:27:19 <justmoon> had an RSI episode a year or so ago :]
1762 2011-03-14 22:28:58 ovatork has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1763 2011-03-14 22:29:18 <phantomcircuit> justmoon, no trackball?
1764 2011-03-14 22:31:04 <justmoon> the rollermouse is a lot like a trackball, except since it's wider you don't to move to it - but I still need a normal mouse for a lot of stuff
1765 2011-03-14 22:31:17 <justmoon> I have to admit I've never owned a trackball for any length of time
1766 2011-03-14 22:32:10 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
1767 2011-03-14 22:32:22 <ArtForz> I love my trackball
1768 2011-03-14 22:32:34 <ArtForz> first gen optical
1769 2011-03-14 22:33:05 <ArtForz> I also have a *very* well-used MX510 mouse
1770 2011-03-14 22:33:32 <justmoon> MX518 here (no G5, just had the brilliant idea to look on the bottom)
1771 2011-03-14 22:33:49 ovatork has joined
1772 2011-03-14 22:34:05 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1773 2011-03-14 22:34:11 <ArtForz> I'm also a keyboard snob
1774 2011-03-14 22:34:19 <luke-jr> any anti-tonal trolls here?
1775 2011-03-14 22:34:23 <justmoon> ArtForz: bring it
1776 2011-03-14 22:34:28 <luke-jr> they need to take a lesson from this guy: http://z13.invisionfree.com/DozensOnline/index.php?showtopic=388&st=0&#last
1777 2011-03-14 22:34:30 <justmoon> luke-jr: here, what's up?
1778 2011-03-14 22:34:40 <ArtForz> linear force steel spring, foil contact
1779 2011-03-14 22:34:45 <justmoon> luke-jr: tldr
1780 2011-03-14 22:34:50 <luke-jr> lol
1781 2011-03-14 22:34:55 <ArtForz> and no, I dont like model Ms
1782 2011-03-14 22:35:23 <justmoon> mine is a Filco with blue cherry switches
1783 2011-03-14 22:35:35 <justmoon> *clickety clickety* :)
1784 2011-03-14 22:35:43 <sipa> wow, we passed 1.3Gs after epoch!
1785 2011-03-14 22:36:09 <justmoon> Gs? gigaseconds?
1786 2011-03-14 22:36:17 <Syke__> http://www.daskeyboard.com/ has great feel.
1787 2011-03-14 22:36:19 <justmoon> oh yeah we did
1788 2011-03-14 22:36:40 <ArtForz> cherry g81-3000
1789 2011-03-14 22:37:24 <justmoon> Syke__: have one, recommend it, same switches as mine, but mine has no number pad (mouse closer -> better for my arm)
1790 2011-03-14 22:37:47 <justmoon> got mine here: http://www.elitekeyboards.com/
1791 2011-03-14 22:37:59 <ArtForz> g81 isnt for "light touch" people though
1792 2011-03-14 22:38:16 <ArtForz> 60g actuation, 100g to bottom out
1793 2011-03-14 22:38:19 <sipa> next year we'll have the tebi yobi milli yocto seconds after epoch, though!
1794 2011-03-14 22:38:45 <blarzong> why not use goedel numbers
1795 2011-03-14 22:39:05 <justmoon> sipa: you speak chinese?
1796 2011-03-14 22:39:12 <sipa> no, why?
1797 2011-03-14 22:39:26 <Syke__> justmoon, ooh, a no-keypad model. Nice.
1798 2011-03-14 22:39:44 <justmoon> sipa: tebi yobi yocto gimli the dwarf?
1799 2011-03-14 22:39:48 <justmoon> sounds chinese to me
1800 2011-03-14 22:40:46 <sipa> kilo=1000 kibi=1024, mega=1000000 mebi=1048576, ... tera=10^12 tebi=2^40
1801 2011-03-14 22:40:51 <ArtForz> basically G81 = MY = MX linear with about 20g higher bottom-out force
1802 2011-03-14 22:41:00 <justmoon> sipa: ah interesting, thanks
1803 2011-03-14 22:41:23 <sipa> and i extrapolated a bit for the yobi, from yotta=10^27
1804 2011-03-14 22:41:40 <ArtForz> so, basically, MX blacks with slightly stiffer springs
1805 2011-03-14 22:42:15 <blarzong> it seems clear that denominations should be from the prime number sequence (because you can express any other amount as a multiple of some other primes)
1806 2011-03-14 22:42:25 <justmoon> ArtForz: blacks are already some of the hardest switches around, daym son
1807 2011-03-14 22:42:35 <ArtForz> yep
1808 2011-03-14 22:42:56 <justmoon> note to self: don't go finger wrestling with ArtForz
1809 2011-03-14 22:43:05 <ArtForz> I learned typing on a mechanical typewriter, still shows ;)
1810 2011-03-14 22:43:12 AmpEater has joined
1811 2011-03-14 22:43:59 <ArtForz> nowadays I can usually restrain myself from bottoming-out
1812 2011-03-14 22:45:27 <justmoon> ArtForz: I like hard typers, shows a determined character
1813 2011-03-14 22:45:36 <justmoon> with me, I'm a clicky typer: annoying character
1814 2011-03-14 22:46:01 <justmoon> show me your keyboard and I will tell you your future ...or something :)
1815 2011-03-14 22:46:18 <ArtForz> lol
1816 2011-03-14 22:47:04 <justmoon> thin apple keyboard: yuppie, microsoft natural: office worker, logitech wave: tech-interested stay-at-home mum
1817 2011-03-14 22:47:25 <nanotube> ;;topic add Public channel logs: http://bit.ly/cdmwSu
1818 2011-03-14 22:48:05 <nanotube> there we go.
1819 2011-03-14 22:48:24 <justmoon> nanotube: pretty! why are you so awesome? WHY?
1820 2011-03-14 22:48:34 <nanotube> justmoon: i just can't help it. :D
1821 2011-03-14 22:49:08 <justmoon> there is a starcraft 2 commentator ("Tasteless") who always says: "i didn't ask for these powers"
1822 2011-03-14 22:49:18 <justmoon> great guy
1823 2011-03-14 22:50:23 <ArtForz> Model M - "look, I'm hardcore" or "get off my lawn" ;)
1824 2011-03-14 22:50:43 <nanotube> heh
1825 2011-03-14 22:51:04 <justmoon> ArtForz: xD - my dad uses one
1826 2011-03-14 22:52:46 <blarzong> http://bitcoinmonitor.com/
1827 2011-03-14 22:52:51 <blarzong> lotta weird transactions
1828 2011-03-14 22:53:38 <blarzong> decreasing by .05 each time
1829 2011-03-14 22:54:20 <BlueMatt> someone doing some more testing I guess
1830 2011-03-14 22:54:53 <ArtForz> probbaly
1831 2011-03-14 22:57:18 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1832 2011-03-14 22:57:43 <justmoon> blarzong: man, that makes me wants to write a script that draws something on there
1833 2011-03-14 22:58:03 <blarzong> justmoon: hah!
1834 2011-03-14 22:58:12 phantomcircuit has joined
1835 2011-03-14 22:58:15 <ArtForz> lol
1836 2011-03-14 22:58:31 <JFK911> ArtForz: you said you have a g81?
1837 2011-03-14 22:58:35 <[Tycho]> Oh, i can draw on this graph :)
1838 2011-03-14 22:58:37 <ArtForz> yup
1839 2011-03-14 22:58:48 FellowTraveler has joined
1840 2011-03-14 22:58:49 <JFK911> i was lookin at one to try out the compact layout
1841 2011-03-14 22:58:54 <JFK911> it's really stiff eh?
1842 2011-03-14 22:58:58 <JFK911> i use an mx white now
1843 2011-03-14 22:59:14 <ArtForz> yeah
1844 2011-03-14 22:59:26 <ArtForz> it's a bit stiffer than mx black, but not by much
1845 2011-03-14 22:59:34 <ArtForz> also has a bit shorter travel to actuation imo
1846 2011-03-14 22:59:55 <[Tycho]> The best keyboads were one of HP's old type.
1847 2011-03-14 23:00:02 <JFK911> do you have to bottom out to get the keypress to register?
1848 2011-03-14 23:00:17 <JFK911> i have some mx black boards, but i think if i was going to change whats on my desk it would be to mx brown
1849 2011-03-14 23:00:23 xelister has joined
1850 2011-03-14 23:00:34 <JFK911> but my mx white kb has got extra keys and macros, im quite used to it
1851 2011-03-14 23:00:49 <xelister> on windows with radeon, is all needed included in the standard driver?  or one has to additionally install Ati Stream SDK as on linux?
1852 2011-03-14 23:01:40 <ArtForz> it think the newer drivers "with APP" come with sdk 2.2 or 2.3 ocl runtime components
1853 2011-03-14 23:01:42 <[Tycho]> I like long-travel keyboards. Those HPs have non-linear travel resistanse, it's harder to push initially and after some millimeters it becomes easier and you know that keypress is registered
1854 2011-03-14 23:01:43 <JFK911> there are some g81-7000 on ebay for $10usd
1855 2011-03-14 23:01:49 <JFK911> some black ones w/ usb
1856 2011-03-14 23:01:51 <ArtForz> for older drivers and sdk 2.1, you need to do it manually
1857 2011-03-14 23:01:52 <JFK911> and some white ps/2 ones
1858 2011-03-14 23:02:02 <JFK911> they are still programmable like the other multiboards i guess?
1859 2011-03-14 23:02:53 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/keyb.jpg :)
1860 2011-03-14 23:03:11 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1861 2011-03-14 23:03:30 <JFK911> [Tycho]: cool waht is that, alps?
1862 2011-03-14 23:03:43 <JFK911> or cherry?
1863 2011-03-14 23:03:52 <[Tycho]> It's Reuters terminal keyboard, don't know what the MFG is.
1864 2011-03-14 23:03:59 <JFK911> pull a keycap off plz
1865 2011-03-14 23:04:02 <[Tycho]> I like the number of buttons.
1866 2011-03-14 23:04:26 <AmpEater> Bad ass
1867 2011-03-14 23:04:29 <[Tycho]> It has 80186 inside and i want to make use of this keyabord someday.
1868 2011-03-14 23:04:30 <JFK911> you use it right now?
1869 2011-03-14 23:04:34 <[Tycho]> Not now.
1870 2011-03-14 23:04:41 <[Tycho]> F1-F24 is really cool.
1871 2011-03-14 23:04:43 <JFK911> you saw a rom chip inside?
1872 2011-03-14 23:05:04 <JFK911> maybe you can bootload something to the thing to make him talk ps/2
1873 2011-03-14 23:05:17 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/ak_00.jpg
1874 2011-03-14 23:05:28 <[Tycho]> It has RS-232, so it would be enough.
1875 2011-03-14 23:05:40 <JFK911> oh okay
1876 2011-03-14 23:05:44 <JFK911> what's his other connectivity?
1877 2011-03-14 23:05:54 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/ak_01.jpg - booting :)
1878 2011-03-14 23:05:55 <JFK911> is that a character lcd display or he's bitmapped?
1879 2011-03-14 23:06:08 <JFK911> oh kick ass
1880 2011-03-14 23:06:39 <ArtForz> looks like a fixed-width character display
1881 2011-03-14 23:06:49 <JFK911> i think maybe its bitmapped
1882 2011-03-14 23:06:58 <[Tycho]> There is some kind of setup software which allows to select different emulations and programm arbitrary command sequences for any key.
1883 2011-03-14 23:07:02 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/ak_04.jpg
1884 2011-03-14 23:07:19 <JFK911> hm!
1885 2011-03-14 23:07:22 <ArtForz> wow, cool
1886 2011-03-14 23:07:41 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/ak_02.jpg - there is even a calculator :)
1887 2011-03-14 23:07:49 <JFK911> what's the 15 pin port for?
1888 2011-03-14 23:08:08 <[Tycho]> JFK911, i think it's for Reuters terminal.
1889 2011-03-14 23:08:26 Cusipzzz has joined
1890 2011-03-14 23:08:37 <JFK911> sed1351 on the board = lcd controller
1891 2011-03-14 23:08:50 <[Tycho]> Googled this out already :)
1892 2011-03-14 23:09:01 <JFK911> i just recognized it, thats all
1893 2011-03-14 23:09:06 <JFK911> how much ram is there?
1894 2011-03-14 23:09:15 <[Tycho]> Sadly the ROMs are soldered it.
1895 2011-03-14 23:09:34 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1896 2011-03-14 23:09:35 <[Tycho]> Don't know exactly.
1897 2011-03-14 23:09:39 <JFK911> looks like 2 of the roms are definitely in sockets
1898 2011-03-14 23:09:56 <JFK911> the other 2 under them look to be also
1899 2011-03-14 23:10:15 amiller has joined
1900 2011-03-14 23:10:23 <JFK911> 128kbyte ram
1901 2011-03-14 23:10:26 <[Tycho]> Can't remember this. Otherwise i would already try to read them out.
1902 2011-03-14 23:10:45 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/ak_03.jpg
1903 2011-03-14 23:11:00 <ArtForz> they also look socketed
1904 2011-03-14 23:11:24 <JFK911> yeah two of them are easy calls, because they are 'short' roms missing some address wires
1905 2011-03-14 23:11:44 <JFK911> they are probably even/odd
1906 2011-03-14 23:11:46 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/pzu_reader.jpg :)
1907 2011-03-14 23:12:33 <ArtForz> also, looks like they're EPROMs
1908 2011-03-14 23:12:50 <ArtForz> round window
1909 2011-03-14 23:13:46 <[Tycho]> Would be also interesting to find it's native protocol reference.
1910 2011-03-14 23:14:54 <ArtForz> top ones 27x256?
1911 2011-03-14 23:15:39 <ArtForz> can't fit anything much bigger in a 28 pin dil
1912 2011-03-14 23:16:32 <JFK911> well tycho maybe you found this already
1913 2011-03-14 23:16:39 <JFK911> thats part of 'reuters prism video switching system'
1914 2011-03-14 23:16:52 <JFK911> http://www.amulethotkey.com/products/ahk3000-series/details
1915 2011-03-14 23:16:55 <JFK911> this may be related?
1916 2011-03-14 23:17:08 <[Tycho]> I'm not sure if i'll ever manage it to run my own code with display, so it would be more useful to use existing one :)
1917 2011-03-14 23:17:39 <JFK911> why not?  you know about the display controller already.  all you need is to figure out where he is from the processor's point of view :)
1918 2011-03-14 23:17:50 <ArtForz> yep
1919 2011-03-14 23:18:39 <ArtForz> you could probably even trace the lines to/from the 74HC glue in the middle
1920 2011-03-14 23:18:55 <ovatork> does the market channel work still? i never see any market data
1921 2011-03-14 23:19:30 <ArtForz> *HCT glue
1922 2011-03-14 23:19:33 <JFK911> yeah it looks like everything hanging off the processor bus is in the same area
1923 2011-03-14 23:19:39 <JFK911> rams and roms and the display controller
1924 2011-03-14 23:20:06 <ArtForz> a bunch of ORs and a bunch of latches
1925 2011-03-14 23:20:25 <JFK911> it could be really simple
1926 2011-03-14 23:20:37 <JFK911> the logic could just latch ce
1927 2011-03-14 23:20:43 <[Tycho]> It has nice software for using keyboard macros, so i'd like to use it :)
1928 2011-03-14 23:21:18 <JFK911> it came from somewhere in moscow?
1929 2011-03-14 23:21:28 <ArtForz> also, whats that big chip in the bottom left... keyboard controller?
1930 2011-03-14 23:21:43 <[Tycho]> Yes, but not sure about exact source.
1931 2011-03-14 23:22:23 <[Tycho]> May be, Phillips makes them AFAIR.
1932 2011-03-14 23:22:35 <ArtForz> yeha, it's a philips... something
1933 2011-03-14 23:22:36 <JFK911> i think it came from tv studio something like rbk
1934 2011-03-14 23:22:41 <ArtForz> cxan't make out the part#
1935 2011-03-14 23:22:57 <JFK911> based on system this was used with
1936 2011-03-14 23:23:04 <JFK911> i wonder where rest of system is
1937 2011-03-14 23:23:26 <[Tycho]> I don't know the pinout of it's D-sub connector
1938 2011-03-14 23:23:44 <ArtForz> welll, the 9-pin is probably a standard rs232 port
1939 2011-03-14 23:24:05 <ArtForz> there's a max... something right next to it, I'll bet it's a max232
1940 2011-03-14 23:24:23 <[Tycho]> 9 pin is RS-232, but it's silent.
1941 2011-03-14 23:24:46 <[Tycho]> I see no characters coming out of it.
1942 2011-03-14 23:24:59 <ArtForz> huh, weird
1943 2011-03-14 23:25:14 <ArtForz> maybe it needs rts/cts handshake?
1944 2011-03-14 23:25:50 <[Tycho]> Not sure about this, should look with scope if there are any signals on it.
1945 2011-03-14 23:26:16 <[Tycho]> May be it needs to enter some special mode to talk with RS-232
1946 2011-03-14 23:26:28 <ArtForz> well, if that chip right next to it *is* a max232, just look to chich DE-9 pins it's rs232-side in/outputs go
1947 2011-03-14 23:26:57 <ArtForz> if it has rxd/txd/cts/rts hooked up it's pretty obvious ;)
1948 2011-03-14 23:27:31 <[Tycho]> The port is labelled as RS-232 on the backside :)
1949 2011-03-14 23:27:35 <ArtForz> while we'Re at "hacking old stuff" ... the factory master password for old ferrups UPses is 112158
1950 2011-03-14 23:28:16 <ArtForz> normal user/techie pw doesn't let you adjust stuff like calibration factors for in/output voltage/ampage, ...
1951 2011-03-14 23:28:53 Necr0s has joined
1952 2011-03-14 23:33:54 <[Tycho]> It's MAX202CPE
1953 2011-03-14 23:34:17 <JFK911> [Tycho]: current WEY kbds look similar
1954 2011-03-14 23:34:28 <JFK911> http://www.weytec.com/?id=192&L=1
1955 2011-03-14 23:34:29 <[Tycho]> One D-sub 9 is labelled as "Mouse" and other is "Desk PC/Workstation"
1956 2011-03-14 23:34:49 <[Tycho]> MFG is Cherry
1957 2011-03-14 23:36:11 <JFK911> nice!
1958 2011-03-14 23:36:14 <[Tycho]> They have different gender
1959 2011-03-14 23:36:18 <JFK911> what color stem?
1960 2011-03-14 23:36:26 <[Tycho]> Stem ?
1961 2011-03-14 23:36:38 <JFK911> http://test.amulethotkey.com/dl/manuals/kmd3_instructions_v1.00.pdf
1962 2011-03-14 23:36:44 <JFK911> this talks about "AK124"
1963 2011-03-14 23:36:52 <JFK911> mentions 9600 and 1200 baud
1964 2011-03-14 23:37:38 <JFK911> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5255/5513750186_a2b86b1b4d_z.jpg  cherry with blue stem
1965 2011-03-14 23:37:56 <[Tycho]> May be there is PS/2 somewhere in D-sub 15, who knows...
1966 2011-03-14 23:40:14 <lolcat> 5770 was a good mining gpu?
1967 2011-03-14 23:40:48 <ArtForz> decent on hash/W, great for hash/$
1968 2011-03-14 23:41:57 <lolcat> I am freezing here, so I need something that takes some W
1969 2011-03-14 23:42:47 <lolcat> Broken laptop == $1000 extra to spend on my desktop
1970 2011-03-14 23:46:35 <Syke__> 5770 is on the low-end of worthwhile
1971 2011-03-14 23:48:38 <luke-jr> was*
1972 2011-03-14 23:48:59 <ArtForz> Syke__: by what metric?
1973 2011-03-14 23:48:59 <luke-jr> low-end is my 5850 now :/
1974 2011-03-14 23:49:25 <luke-jr> ArtForz: my metric is when it begins to make sense using a pool instead of self-mining
1975 2011-03-14 23:49:34 <luke-jr> eg, 2 weeks
1976 2011-03-14 23:49:37 <ArtForz> so... use more than one?
1977 2011-03-14 23:49:39 justmoon has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1978 2011-03-14 23:49:43 <Syke__> 5770 = 1 block per month
1979 2011-03-14 23:50:01 <ArtForz> it's not like theres only a single 5770 on the planet
1980 2011-03-14 23:50:17 <Syke__> well a cluster of 5770s isn't a single 5770.
1981 2011-03-14 23:50:25 <ArtForz> and 2 of em are easily faster than a OCed 5870
1982 2011-03-14 23:51:02 <ArtForz> no big suprise considering a 5770 is exactly half a 5870 and clocks a lot higher
1983 2011-03-14 23:51:24 <ArtForz> mine all run > 1GHz at stock V
1984 2011-03-14 23:52:36 <Syke__> the question appeared to be asking about a single 5770.
1985 2011-03-14 23:52:52 <ArtForz> it also asked about the past
1986 2011-03-14 23:52:55 <luke-jr> ArtForz: put together enough CPUs and you can mine reasonably. but it doesn't make CPUs worthwhile
1987 2011-03-14 23:53:04 <ArtForz> no, it doesnt, asshat
1988 2011-03-14 23:53:14 <ArtForz> they'll still have shitty perf/W and perf/$
1989 2011-03-14 23:53:14 <AmpEater> Lol
1990 2011-03-14 23:53:38 <ArtForz> but hey, who cares about actual metrics when you can just claim shit and sound smart
1991 2011-03-14 23:54:18 <Syke__> yes, it was a good gpu, but now it's at the low-end of worthwhile
1992 2011-03-14 23:54:34 <luke-jr> Syke__: no, it's beyond the low end now
1993 2011-03-14 23:54:49 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, the only application where solar panels are viable
1994 2011-03-14 23:54:51 <phantomcircuit> congratulations
1995 2011-03-14 23:55:03 <ArtForz> luke-jr: again, your claims are based on... what?
1996 2011-03-14 23:56:00 <luke-jr> I already said
1997 2011-03-14 23:56:34 <Syke__> what would be the total wattage on a single 5770 rig?
1998 2011-03-14 23:56:48 <ArtForz> depends a lot on the rest of the box
1999 2011-03-14 23:57:32 <ArtForz> I'd say about 160W at the plug
2000 2011-03-14 23:57:58 <Syke__> at my elect costs that would be a profit of $8/mo.
2001 2011-03-14 23:58:15 <Syke__> at current exchange rates
2002 2011-03-14 23:58:18 <ArtForz> 4*5770 @ 1.01/1.04/1.11/1.06 GHz is 580W at the plug with a 80+ gold PSU
2003 2011-03-14 23:59:23 <Syke__> wear and tear on the system would cost more than $8, so it's a non-profitable miner where I live.
2004 2011-03-14 23:59:27 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
2005 2011-03-14 23:59:31 Guest19834 is now known as sneak
2006 2011-03-14 23:59:38 sneak has quit (Changing host)
2007 2011-03-14 23:59:38 sneak has joined
2008 2011-03-14 23:59:39 <xelister> FINALL PROVE !!!
2009 2011-03-14 23:59:43 <xelister> that ati sucks dicks
2010 2011-03-14 23:59:45 <ArtForz> yup, your power rates suck ;)
2011 2011-03-14 23:59:56 <Syke__> quite true