1 2011-03-21 00:01:51 <genjix> yep cant wait to watch that!
   2 2011-03-21 00:01:59 <genjix> when i have time
   3 2011-03-21 00:03:36 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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   5 2011-03-21 00:05:56 <joepie91> it's nice
   6 2011-03-21 00:05:57 <joepie91> a bit odd
   7 2011-03-21 00:05:59 <joepie91> but nice
   8 2011-03-21 00:06:12 <joepie91> a lot more realistic acting and editing than pioneer one
   9 2011-03-21 00:06:26 <genjix> sweet
  10 2011-03-21 00:06:34 <joepie91> seeding from my vps @ 6MB/sec
  11 2011-03-21 00:06:35 <joepie91> :)
  12 2011-03-21 00:07:00 <joepie91> ... which is noticeable if you connect to the irc leaf on there, lol
  13 2011-03-21 00:07:15 <genjix> it's offered on irc?
  14 2011-03-21 00:07:24 <joepie91> nono
  15 2011-03-21 00:07:25 <genjix> which serv/chan?
  16 2011-03-21 00:07:27 <genjix> ok
  17 2011-03-21 00:07:28 <[Tycho]> Looks like he is here because 1 sec. interval just increased to 5 secs :)
  18 2011-03-21 00:07:33 <joepie91> just I'm seeding from the same VPS where I host an IRC leaf
  19 2011-03-21 00:07:39 <genjix> k
  20 2011-03-21 00:07:47 <joepie91> got my own irc net running, lol
  21 2011-03-21 00:07:50 <joepie91> badly configured, but stable
  22 2011-03-21 00:07:55 <dirtyfilthy> joepie91: so whats the deal with backtrace security, is that just a hoax/scam or what?
  23 2011-03-21 00:08:01 <joepie91> mhhh
  24 2011-03-21 00:08:14 <joepie91> I think it's a combination of trollbait, honeypot, marketing ploy
  25 2011-03-21 00:08:38 <joepie91> in any case, the "ex-anons who don't agree with what is being done" is bullshit, lol
  26 2011-03-21 00:08:58 <joepie91> ... and their dox are fail
  27 2011-03-21 00:09:22 <joepie91> plus, they should learn to remove their joins and parts from publicized irc logs
  28 2011-03-21 00:09:33 <joepie91> because now I could exactly pinpoint who logged my channel
  29 2011-03-21 00:09:38 <joepie91> and what IP hash they had :>
  30 2011-03-21 00:15:10 jostmey has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  31 2011-03-21 00:17:16 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  32 2011-03-21 00:17:59 <joepie91> okay, great
  33 2011-03-21 00:18:04 <joepie91> startssl rejected
  34 2011-03-21 00:18:09 <joepie91> "not meant for financial transactions"
  35 2011-03-21 00:18:18 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  36 2011-03-21 00:18:25 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  37 2011-03-21 00:18:58 jroot has joined
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  39 2011-03-21 00:19:43 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  40 2011-03-21 00:20:16 da2ce7 has joined
  41 2011-03-21 00:23:11 <joepie91> any other suggestions as to where to get a free SSL cert?
  42 2011-03-21 00:23:17 <joepie91> genjix, [Tycho] ?
  43 2011-03-21 00:23:20 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
  44 2011-03-21 00:28:32 chaord has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  45 2011-03-21 00:28:43 nanotube has joined
  46 2011-03-21 00:29:27 <genjix> joepie91: nope i only know startssl
  47 2011-03-21 00:29:41 <joepie91> :/
  48 2011-03-21 00:29:56 <genjix> others exist, but haven't tried them yet
  49 2011-03-21 00:30:02 Lachesis has joined
  50 2011-03-21 00:30:08 <genjix> let me know if you use any others successfully
  51 2011-03-21 00:30:33 <joepie91> h
  52 2011-03-21 00:30:35 <joepie91> hm*
  53 2011-03-21 00:30:37 <joepie91> I'll look into it
  54 2011-03-21 00:30:49 <joepie91> also, maybe there is a small chance with start...
  55 2011-03-21 00:30:59 <joepie91> I sent them an email saying it won;t involve transaction fees etc
  56 2011-03-21 00:31:04 <joepie91> *maybe* I'm lucky
  57 2011-03-21 00:31:17 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ shows input amounts and fee (if included)
  58 2011-03-21 00:31:24 dihi229 has joined
  59 2011-03-21 00:31:30 <dihi229> hello all...
  60 2011-03-21 00:31:49 gribble has joined
  61 2011-03-21 00:32:03 <dihi229> is there a PPC version of bitcoin node?  i have an ole g4 dp w/leopard
  62 2011-03-21 00:32:38 <jgarzik> joepie91: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3748.msg53973#msg53973
  63 2011-03-21 00:32:49 <tcatm> dihi229: nope. PPC is not supported
  64 2011-03-21 00:32:59 <jgarzik> dihi229: bitcoin was written with a lot of little endian assumptions, unfortunately
  65 2011-03-21 00:33:15 <jgarzik> patches to fix welcomed!
  66 2011-03-21 00:33:20 <genjix> joepie91: haha great! ty
  67 2011-03-21 00:33:25 <dihi229> haha, above my pay grade
  68 2011-03-21 00:33:25 <genjix> jgarzik:
  69 2011-03-21 00:33:43 <genjix> bookmarked.
  70 2011-03-21 00:34:00 <joepie91> ...lmfao
  71 2011-03-21 00:34:01 <joepie91> that is genius
  72 2011-03-21 00:34:37 <luke-jr> dihi229: um, sure. just compile it
  73 2011-03-21 00:34:42 <joepie91> when I have enough bitcoins that guy is getting some, lol
  74 2011-03-21 00:34:57 <luke-jr> dihi229: but it's kindof pointless… why would you still be using a G4
  75 2011-03-21 00:35:05 <dihi229> i'm not
  76 2011-03-21 00:35:12 <genjix> isn't ppc deprecated?
  77 2011-03-21 00:35:15 <dihi229> i have an old g4 i use as a cloudboc
  78 2011-03-21 00:35:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: wait, it really does stuff that broken? :/
  79 2011-03-21 00:35:23 <luke-jr> genjix: no
  80 2011-03-21 00:35:27 <luke-jr> G4 is, but not PPC
  81 2011-03-21 00:35:31 <dihi229> file sharing, vpn,
  82 2011-03-21 00:35:34 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yep :/
  83 2011-03-21 00:35:37 <genjix> but macs use intel now
  84 2011-03-21 00:35:53 <luke-jr> genjix: which is why Macs are worthless now
  85 2011-03-21 00:36:12 <luke-jr> the whole point of buying a Mac, was to get PPC
  86 2011-03-21 00:36:32 <genjix> no it's a fashion accessory.
  87 2011-03-21 00:36:50 <genjix> but if mac dont use ppc, then who does?
  88 2011-03-21 00:36:53 <dihi229> bittorrent and storage and vpn for secure wireless...its almost 10 years old...still runs good.  not worthless
  89 2011-03-21 00:37:13 * jgarzik 's mini-pool generated a second block.  whee.
  90 2011-03-21 00:37:23 <jgarzik> now I need to fix up the payout code, before it matures.
  91 2011-03-21 00:37:31 devon_hillard has joined
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  93 2011-03-21 00:37:31 devon_hillard has joined
  94 2011-03-21 00:38:04 <dihi229> a bit coin is trading for what?  like .80cents tothe dollar?
  95 2011-03-21 00:38:13 <genjix> tcatm: you should use the modified ServiceProxy, not default json-rpc one.
  96 2011-03-21 00:38:23 <genjix> tcatm: that's a mistake if you are since it uses floats.
  97 2011-03-21 00:38:39 <joepie91> um.
  98 2011-03-21 00:38:40 <joepie91> problem.
  99 2011-03-21 00:38:46 <joepie91> comodo does not have lighttpd in the list
 100 2011-03-21 00:38:50 <joepie91> what now? :/
 101 2011-03-21 00:38:55 <genjix> install apache?
 102 2011-03-21 00:39:14 <genjix> anyway what's the big deal? it's just pem files you download
 103 2011-03-21 00:39:14 <tcatm> genjix: feel free to fork the code and fix it
 104 2011-03-21 00:39:26 <joepie91> I have zero experience with SSL itself, lol
 105 2011-03-21 00:39:35 <genjix> tcatm: there's no 'fix'... i'm just saying you should use the file i linked there.
 106 2011-03-21 00:39:50 dihi229 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 107 2011-03-21 00:40:24 <joepie91> Comodo tells me to generate a CSR, and gives instructions for several daemons, but lighttpd is not in there. I can use another guide to generate it from lighttpd, but then I can't select that as the origin daemon in the Comodo form. As my server will run lighttpd as daemon, I imagine I will need to generate the CSR on there as well?
 108 2011-03-21 00:40:46 <joepie91> or can I generate the CSR with whatever daemon I want and then just use the certificate for a lighttpd setup anyway?
 109 2011-03-21 00:41:00 <genjix> joepie91: tbh i was running lighttpd myself but i switched to apache
 110 2011-03-21 00:41:10 <genjix> because apache is standard and everyone uses it.
 111 2011-03-21 00:41:18 <joepie91> err, yes, and its performance is horrible
 112 2011-03-21 00:41:18 <joepie91> lol
 113 2011-03-21 00:41:31 <genjix> also lighttpd has some small incompatibilities and one bug that was blocking me,
 114 2011-03-21 00:41:37 <joepie91> not to mention how incredibly easy it is to DoS/DDoS it
 115 2011-03-21 00:41:50 <genjix> joepie91: benchmarks? they're not that different in speed imo.
 116 2011-03-21 00:41:59 <joepie91> benchmarks do not matter much
 117 2011-03-21 00:42:07 <joepie91> if sites feel slow on apache, while they feel quick on lighttpd
 118 2011-03-21 00:42:09 <joepie91> that is the lead I follow
 119 2011-03-21 00:42:10 <joepie91> lol
 120 2011-03-21 00:42:18 <joepie91> and again, how easy it is to take down is a serious issue
 121 2011-03-21 00:42:38 <jgarzik> joepie91: comodo works great w/ lighttpd
 122 2011-03-21 00:42:38 <genjix> they're not that different
 123 2011-03-21 00:42:43 <joepie91> even with things like the module against slowloris, it's still way easier to take down apache than to take down lighttpd
 124 2011-03-21 00:42:45 <joepie91> due to its design
 125 2011-03-21 00:42:46 <jgarzik> joepie91: I'm using their SSL cert with lighttpd right now
 126 2011-03-21 00:42:55 <joepie91> jgarzik: ok, but how do I generate the CSR?
 127 2011-03-21 00:42:57 <jgarzik> that's how xf2.org got its SSL cert :)
 128 2011-03-21 00:43:06 <jgarzik> joepie91: openssl(1)
 129 2011-03-21 00:43:34 noagendamarket has joined
 130 2011-03-21 00:43:34 <joepie91> "2. Select the server software used to generate the CSR:"
 131 2011-03-21 00:43:37 <joepie91> that is the issue
 132 2011-03-21 00:44:10 <joepie91> I can generate it etc, but I have no clue what to pick in that list then
 133 2011-03-21 00:44:12 <joepie91> as it does not have lighttpd
 134 2011-03-21 00:44:15 <joepie91> nor nginx
 135 2011-03-21 00:44:18 <jgarzik> joepie91: what are the options?
 136 2011-03-21 00:44:35 <joepie91> should be the same list as this one: https://support.comodo.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=view&parentcategoryid=33
 137 2011-03-21 00:44:47 <joepie91> might try if you can reach the form directly
 138 2011-03-21 00:44:47 <joepie91> https://secure.instantssl.com/products/SSLIdASignup1a
 139 2011-03-21 00:44:50 <joepie91> but that probably won;t work :P
 140 2011-03-21 00:45:08 <jgarzik> joepie91: choose "Redhat Linux"
 141 2011-03-21 00:45:18 <joepie91> okay, thanks :)
 142 2011-03-21 00:50:41 <joepie91> ok, now to await validation
 143 2011-03-21 00:55:03 <luke-jr> genjix: all modern game consoles use PPC
 144 2011-03-21 00:55:15 <luke-jr> genjix: as well as POWER servers
 145 2011-03-21 00:55:42 <genjix> and they all have custom compilers
 146 2011-03-21 00:55:50 <genjix> +software
 147 2011-03-21 00:56:41 <luke-jr> not POWER servers
 148 2011-03-21 00:57:13 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
 149 2011-03-21 00:57:40 <luke-jr> also "Most PowerPC chips switch endianness via a bit in the MSR (Machine State Register), with a second bit provided to allow the OS to run with a different endianness. Accesses to the "inverted page table" (a hash table that functions as a TLB with off-chip storage) are always done in big-endian mode. The processor starts in big-endian mode."
 150 2011-03-21 00:57:47 <luke-jr> so endianness shouldn't be a problem
 151 2011-03-21 00:58:32 <joepie91> 35 arrests at quantico, supposedly
 152 2011-03-21 00:58:37 <joepie91> at the bradley manning protest
 153 2011-03-21 00:59:43 <joepie91> http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/mar/20/2/hundreds-rally-quantico-suspected-wikileaks-whistl-ar-916404/
 154 2011-03-21 01:02:56 skeledrew has joined
 155 2011-03-21 01:03:03 <da2ce7> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4721.msg68784#msg68784
 156 2011-03-21 01:03:16 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
 157 2011-03-21 01:03:19 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114327 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 584 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66491.75235706
 158 2011-03-21 01:04:04 <da2ce7> above ^ posted a bitcoin address refrenece specfication idea.
 159 2011-03-21 01:04:40 <joepie91> ... base 58?
 160 2011-03-21 01:04:56 <joepie91> 58 - 10 = 48
 161 2011-03-21 01:04:56 <joepie91> 48 / 2 = 24
 162 2011-03-21 01:04:58 <joepie91> ?
 163 2011-03-21 01:05:01 <joepie91> am I missing something?
 164 2011-03-21 01:05:30 <joepie91> I assume you use digits, lowercase a-z, uppercase a-z
 165 2011-03-21 01:05:35 <joepie91> in which case it would be... base 62?
 166 2011-03-21 01:05:46 lolcat has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 167 2011-03-21 01:05:47 <joepie91> 10 + ( 26 * 2 )
 168 2011-03-21 01:05:51 <joepie91> or am I failing at math? :P
 169 2011-03-21 01:06:30 <da2ce7> base 58 is what the bitcoin addresses use.
 170 2011-03-21 01:06:32 <da2ce7> :P
 171 2011-03-21 01:06:41 <da2ce7> hmm I hope I got the maths right.
 172 2011-03-21 01:06:47 <da2ce7> I did it by hand.
 173 2011-03-21 01:07:19 <joepie91> then I wonder what characters are used for bitcoin addresses.. :/
 174 2011-03-21 01:07:20 <joepie91> or rather
 175 2011-03-21 01:07:23 <joepie91> what characters are not used
 176 2011-03-21 01:08:06 <da2ce7> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/base58.h
 177 2011-03-21 01:08:14 <da2ce7> 0OIl
 178 2011-03-21 01:08:38 <joepie91> ahhh
 179 2011-03-21 01:08:44 <joepie91> ambiguity with 1 and 0?
 180 2011-03-21 01:08:45 <joepie91> :P
 181 2011-03-21 01:08:49 <da2ce7> yep
 182 2011-03-21 01:09:06 <joepie91> makes sense, lol
 183 2011-03-21 01:09:31 bk128 has joined
 184 2011-03-21 01:12:04 sabalaba has joined
 185 2011-03-21 01:12:30 <joepie91> is anyone else annoyed by the fact that if you want to wget a tar.gz from sourceforge you need to go to the download page on sf.net, then have to copy the download link while in the meantime it starts downloading the archive to your OWN computer while you don't even need it there?
 186 2011-03-21 01:12:39 <joepie91> instead of them just providing a direct link to the archive...
 187 2011-03-21 01:16:33 <da2ce7> eeek, I have more photos than your mum on a good porn shoot gets to process :/
 188 2011-03-21 01:16:51 <da2ce7> 568 photos from one gig.
 189 2011-03-21 01:17:09 nextnonce has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 190 2011-03-21 01:17:19 <joepie91> ./bitcoind: error while loading shared libraries: libgthread-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
 191 2011-03-21 01:17:20 <joepie91> lolwut
 192 2011-03-21 01:19:01 <joepie91> ah, was missing a lib
 193 2011-03-21 01:24:25 <genjix> i am annoyed by all the laggy ugly javascript on clunky websites trying to be flashy
 194 2011-03-21 01:24:34 <joepie91> heh
 195 2011-03-21 01:24:39 <genjix> just offer a link you pretentious bastards
 196 2011-03-21 01:24:50 <genjix> my browser knows what to do.
 197 2011-03-21 01:24:50 <joepie91> only use javascript when it improves the user experience :)
 198 2011-03-21 01:25:40 <joepie91> and only use flash when it's really really really REALLY necessary
 199 2011-03-21 01:26:41 theymos has joined
 200 2011-03-21 01:29:15 <andrew12> ahoy
 201 2011-03-21 01:31:05 <joepie91> ohai
 202 2011-03-21 01:34:26 dust1 has left ()
 203 2011-03-21 01:35:08 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 204 2011-03-21 01:35:18 <Mango-chan> so
 205 2011-03-21 01:35:43 tower has joined
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 207 2011-03-21 01:38:18 tower is now known as towerX
 208 2011-03-21 01:46:22 <jgarzik> ;;later jgarzik test
 209 2011-03-21 01:46:23 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "jgarzik" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
 210 2011-03-21 01:46:31 tower has joined
 211 2011-03-21 01:46:37 <jgarzik> ;;later send jgarzik test
 212 2011-03-21 01:46:37 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "send" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
 213 2011-03-21 01:46:50 <jgarzik> ;;later tell jgarzik test
 214 2011-03-21 01:46:50 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 215 2011-03-21 01:47:20 <jgarzik> ;;later tell BlueMatt I use Fedora 14's outstanding mingw32 support to build cpuminer Windows packages entirely on Linux.
 216 2011-03-21 01:47:20 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 217 2011-03-21 01:47:25 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 218 2011-03-21 01:49:11 tower is now known as towerX
 219 2011-03-21 01:51:25 Diablo-D3 has joined
 220 2011-03-21 01:56:31 <joepie91> later tell is some sort of memoserv?
 221 2011-03-21 01:57:08 <Lachesis> i suppose
 222 2011-03-21 01:57:08 <luke-jr> yes
 223 2011-03-21 01:57:10 <Lachesis> it does what it sounds like
 224 2011-03-21 01:57:17 SykeP has joined
 225 2011-03-21 01:57:20 <joepie91> heh
 226 2011-03-21 01:57:40 <joepie91> okay, backtrace is sort of disappointing me
 227 2011-03-21 01:57:54 <joepie91> they are now re-releasing the same logs they already re-released to gawker
 228 2011-03-21 01:58:02 <joepie91> which were originally published by crowdleaks
 229 2011-03-21 01:58:16 <joepie91> in a pdf, with a watermark
 230 2011-03-21 01:58:29 <joepie91> ... how many times can you try to attentionwhore off one set of logs >.<
 231 2011-03-21 01:59:01 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
 232 2011-03-21 01:59:25 <theymos> What logs?
 233 2011-03-21 02:01:12 <joepie91> logs from a supposed "headquarters"
 234 2011-03-21 02:01:13 <joepie91> lol
 235 2011-03-21 02:01:22 <jgarzik> offtopic logs, I'm guessing?  :)
 236 2011-03-21 02:01:25 <joepie91> related to anonymous
 237 2011-03-21 02:01:34 <joepie91> to the hbgary leak, more specifically
 238 2011-03-21 02:02:49 X-Scale has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 239 2011-03-21 02:04:21 puddinpop has joined
 240 2011-03-21 02:06:04 TheKid has joined
 241 2011-03-21 02:06:04 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
 242 2011-03-21 02:06:04 TheKid has joined
 243 2011-03-21 02:07:59 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 244 2011-03-21 02:18:45 <joepie91> \o/
 245 2011-03-21 02:18:48 <joepie91> dns werking
 246 2011-03-21 02:18:55 <joepie91> http://www.paybtc.com
 247 2011-03-21 02:22:09 <jgarzik> where's ssl? :)
 248 2011-03-21 02:26:15 <Blitzboom> joepie91: webwallet service?
 249 2011-03-21 02:26:26 <joepie91> nop
 250 2011-03-21 02:26:30 <joepie91> direct payment processing
 251 2011-03-21 02:26:40 <joepie91> you create a payment page by entering your actual bitcoin address and the amount
 252 2011-03-21 02:26:41 <genjix> joepie91: nice. so i dont need a bitcoind running
 253 2011-03-21 02:26:46 <joepie91> either through an API or through the site itself
 254 2011-03-21 02:26:50 <joepie91> you get a payment url
 255 2011-03-21 02:26:59 <genjix> joepie91: are you using php?
 256 2011-03-21 02:27:04 <noagendamarket> nice
 257 2011-03-21 02:27:14 <joepie91> you give the customer the url, he gets a gateway address... as soon as he sends the money, the gateway makes a callback or sends an email and IMMEDIATELY sends the payment to the actual address
 258 2011-03-21 02:27:16 <joepie91> genjix: yup
 259 2011-03-21 02:27:21 <joepie91> and ssl is not yet there, waiting for validation
 260 2011-03-21 02:27:29 <genjix> ok i need to give you some tips
 261 2011-03-21 02:27:48 <genjix> because you're going to have problems using bitcoin by default in php
 262 2011-03-21 02:28:21 <joepie91> oh?
 263 2011-03-21 02:28:22 <joepie91> howso?
 264 2011-03-21 02:28:27 <genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_tutorial_%28JSON-RPC%29#Precision
 265 2011-03-21 02:28:34 <genjix> you need to read that
 266 2011-03-21 02:28:38 <luke-jr> joepie91: JSON-RPC is terribly broken, etc etc
 267 2011-03-21 02:28:45 <luke-jr> joepie91: but it's not THAT hard to workaround
 268 2011-03-21 02:28:57 <luke-jr> at least not this particular problem
 269 2011-03-21 02:29:02 <genjix> well if you're dealing with people's money then the php json encodes values as floats
 270 2011-03-21 02:29:30 <luke-jr> joepie91: genjix's "solution" is also broken though
 271 2011-03-21 02:29:33 <genjix> joepie91: also if you're dealing with money anyway, you should be using ints
 272 2011-03-21 02:29:45 <genjix> luke-jr: how is it broken. stop spreading false info.
 273 2011-03-21 02:30:06 <joepie91> whoa, wait
 274 2011-03-21 02:30:07 <luke-jr> oh, maybe not.
 275 2011-03-21 02:30:09 <joepie91> information overload
 276 2011-03-21 02:30:12 <joepie91> lol
 277 2011-03-21 02:30:14 <luke-jr> genjix: why is GMP needed?
 278 2011-03-21 02:30:20 <joepie91> what exactly is broken again?
 279 2011-03-21 02:30:26 <luke-jr> joepie91: JSON-RPC
 280 2011-03-21 02:30:51 <joepie91> speaking of which
 281 2011-03-21 02:30:51 <joepie91> http://jsonrpcphp.org/
 282 2011-03-21 02:30:53 <joepie91> broken
 283 2011-03-21 02:30:53 <joepie91> lol
 284 2011-03-21 02:30:57 <genjix> luke-jr: to handle large ints. it does accurate division .etc
 285 2011-03-21 02:31:00 <joepie91> the irony...
 286 2011-03-21 02:31:17 <genjix> joepie91: 1) you should be handling the money as ints (use GMP)
 287 2011-03-21 02:31:24 <joepie91> GMP?
 288 2011-03-21 02:31:33 <theymos> I prefer bcmath.
 289 2011-03-21 02:31:35 <genjix> 2) you need to use my branch of bitcoin
 290 2011-03-21 02:31:41 <genjix> theymos: not good.
 291 2011-03-21 02:31:44 <luke-jr> genjix: PHP doesn't have 64-bit numbers?
 292 2011-03-21 02:31:51 <theymos> genjix: Why not?
 293 2011-03-21 02:32:12 <genjix> theymos: if you divide 10 btc / 3 then you will get 3.3333333 (truncated).
 294 2011-03-21 02:32:22 <jgarzik> genjix: CBigNum does not work for you?
 295 2011-03-21 02:32:32 <jgarzik> genjix: we don't need GMP
 296 2011-03-21 02:32:35 <genjix> if using large ints then you'll get 3333333333 and the remainder which you can then handle.
 297 2011-03-21 02:32:39 <joepie91> genjix: I suppose your branch does not provide binary downloads?
 298 2011-03-21 02:32:42 <luke-jr> jgarzik: CBigNum in PHP?
 299 2011-03-21 02:32:45 <genjix> you don't want to be leaking money.
 300 2011-03-21 02:33:08 <Kiba> The bitcoinweekly.com is ready for operation
 301 2011-03-21 02:33:28 <Kiba> :D
 302 2011-03-21 02:33:32 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I guess I misunderstood.  I thought genjix was talking about the official bitcoin client.
 303 2011-03-21 02:33:43 <genjix> ok
 304 2011-03-21 02:33:48 <luke-jr> genjix: does int(value * 1e8) really not work in PHP?
 305 2011-03-21 02:34:05 <jgarzik> python does bignums and web quite well :)
 306 2011-03-21 02:34:23 <genjix> except when you do 10//3 :p
 307 2011-03-21 02:34:39 <genjix> you should be handling the modulus too
 308 2011-03-21 02:34:46 <joepie91> 1. genjix: do you provide binary downloads for your branch, and if not, how do I compile it on Debian?
 309 2011-03-21 02:34:47 <joepie91> 2. does anyone have the php json-rpc for me in the first place, as their site is completely broken
 310 2011-03-21 02:34:54 <jgarzik> python does mod
 311 2011-03-21 02:34:59 <genjix> yep
 312 2011-03-21 02:35:12 <genjix> joepie91: you compile it same way as normal bitcoin
 313 2011-03-21 02:35:19 <genjix> make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
 314 2011-03-21 02:35:29 <joepie91> errr, what packages are required to build it?
 315 2011-03-21 02:35:34 <genjix> luke-jr: i don't think so
 316 2011-03-21 02:35:35 <joepie91> never been able to found a list of packages for debian
 317 2011-03-21 02:35:38 <joepie91> err
 318 2011-03-21 02:35:39 <joepie91> find*
 319 2011-03-21 02:35:42 <joepie91> (it's late, lol)
 320 2011-03-21 02:35:51 <genjix> because you get values like 0.999999999999999
 321 2011-03-21 02:35:52 <luke-jr> joepie91: building bitcoind is a pain. you shouldn't need any modifications
 322 2011-03-21 02:35:56 <joepie91> ...
 323 2011-03-21 02:36:04 <joepie91> now do I need genjix branch or not? >.<
 324 2011-03-21 02:36:05 <genjix> joepie91: i have instructions on the dev subforum
 325 2011-03-21 02:36:10 <luke-jr> joepie91: I highly doubt it.
 326 2011-03-21 02:36:33 <genjix> joepie91: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4572.0
 327 2011-03-21 02:36:56 <joepie91> errr, ubuntu =/= debian
 328 2011-03-21 02:37:01 <joepie91> half the packages does not even exist in debian
 329 2011-03-21 02:37:11 <theymos> genjix: Wouldn't you truncate, anyway?
 330 2011-03-21 02:37:13 <genjix> joepie91: yes you do. if you're handling other people's money then it's super bad if you're leaking money.
 331 2011-03-21 02:37:18 <genjix> theymos: no.
 332 2011-03-21 02:37:31 <genjix> i would send the money back to their account or do something
 333 2011-03-21 02:37:46 <genjix> i seriously hope you aren't dropping money from people's accounts....
 334 2011-03-21 02:38:01 <luke-jr> round(value * 1e8) <-- seems to work fine in PHP\
 335 2011-03-21 02:38:34 <luke-jr> joepie91: just feed all monetary values you get from JSON-RPC through ^
 336 2011-03-21 02:38:45 <luke-jr> and when you send JSON-RPC, you need to do the reverse: value / 1e8
 337 2011-03-21 02:38:57 <genjix> that's an awful hack.
 338 2011-03-21 02:39:02 <joepie91> mh
 339 2011-03-21 02:39:02 <genjix> round(...)
 340 2011-03-21 02:39:13 <joepie91> sounds like the hack I used to store ratings in my mysql database
 341 2011-03-21 02:39:14 <joepie91> lol
 342 2011-03-21 02:39:18 <luke-jr> genjix: it works, and better than your hack :P
 343 2011-03-21 02:39:20 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
 344 2011-03-21 02:39:26 <joepie91> (for some quickly hacked together project)
 345 2011-03-21 02:39:31 <genjix> how is it better thna my 'hack'
 346 2011-03-21 02:39:34 <luke-jr> joepie91: also, keep in mind that real bitcoin units are 1/100000000 of a BTC
 347 2011-03-21 02:39:40 <genjix> my version is 100% accurate
 348 2011-03-21 02:39:40 <joepie91> luke-jr: aware
 349 2011-03-21 02:39:51 <genjix> yours is "mostly" accurate.
 350 2011-03-21 02:39:54 <ArtForz> ... so is his
 351 2011-03-21 02:40:08 <andrew12> are any of you guys on a mac?
 352 2011-03-21 02:40:09 Bosma has joined
 353 2011-03-21 02:40:12 <joepie91> tbh I do not see why * 1e8 would not be accurate
 354 2011-03-21 02:40:16 <luke-jr> joepie91: so when you accept user input, or render it, you need to do some formatting
 355 2011-03-21 02:40:23 <luke-jr> joepie91: you *don't* want to do /1e8 for formatting
 356 2011-03-21 02:40:34 <joepie91> lol, howso
 357 2011-03-21 02:40:43 <luke-jr> probably want to convert to string, insert a decimal point, and trim extra 0s
 358 2011-03-21 02:40:56 <luke-jr> joepie91: 10000000 / 1e8 = 0.0999999999999
 359 2011-03-21 02:41:07 <joepie91> ah.
 360 2011-03-21 02:41:21 * joepie91 remembers this from somewhere
 361 2011-03-21 02:41:32 <ArtForz> luke-jr: now limit the print to 8 decimal places
 362 2011-03-21 02:41:41 <luke-jr> it's because 0.1 cannot be converted to binary as-is
 363 2011-03-21 02:42:00 <genjix> that's such a cavalier attitude
 364 2011-03-21 02:42:12 <luke-jr> ArtForz: that might work, not sure. might be implementation-specific too
 365 2011-03-21 02:42:23 <ArtForz> just dont do internal math using floats ffs
 366 2011-03-21 02:42:39 <joepie91> k, it might be because it's late, but I'm completely lost here on what to do now, due to contradicting advice :P Now, what is the 1-2-3 list of things to do that will be most accurate?
 367 2011-03-21 02:42:51 <genjix> so why does the json rpc return floats then and not strings?
 368 2011-03-21 02:43:03 <genjix> why the resistance to returning strings (which works)
 369 2011-03-21 02:43:04 <luke-jr> joepie91: whenever you speak JSON-RPC, use round(amount * 1e8), and amount / 1e8
 370 2011-03-21 02:43:23 <genjix> otherwise you have to make all these workaround hacks for ruby/php/python
 371 2011-03-21 02:43:29 <luke-jr> joepie91: whenever you speak to humans, convert to string and do some magic formatting tricks
 372 2011-03-21 02:43:32 Stellar has joined
 373 2011-03-21 02:43:33 <genjix> joepie91: read that wiki link i posted.
 374 2011-03-21 02:43:36 <ArtForz> actually for python JSON it's easy as shit
 375 2011-03-21 02:43:41 <luke-jr> genjix: because that's just as broken as JSON-RPC is now
 376 2011-03-21 02:43:44 <ArtForz> for python json-rpc ... not so much
 377 2011-03-21 02:43:59 <genjix> ArtForz: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_tutorial_%28JSON-RPC%29#Python
 378 2011-03-21 02:44:02 <devrandom> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Floating_point#Accuracy_problems
 379 2011-03-21 02:44:05 <genjix> i write my own serviceproxy
 380 2011-03-21 02:44:17 <genjix> which uses decimal.Decimal
 381 2011-03-21 02:44:23 <ArtForz> yep
 382 2011-03-21 02:44:40 <ArtForz> I did something a bit uglier
 383 2011-03-21 02:44:45 <joepie91> if I'd use your branch, genjix, then what packages do I install? half the packages in your list does not exist in Debian
 384 2011-03-21 02:44:57 <ArtForz> fake http on top of socket, using json
 385 2011-03-21 02:45:01 <luke-jr> yawn
 386 2011-03-21 02:45:13 <genjix> joepie91: erm well you need to get them working somehow to build bitcoin anyway
 387 2011-03-21 02:45:14 <devrandom> floats don't even have 8 decimal digits
 388 2011-03-21 02:45:24 <joepie91> genjix: what is not there is not there, lol
 389 2011-03-21 02:45:36 <genjix> ArtForz: and also ruby has no way to encode json in anything except floats
 390 2011-03-21 02:45:42 <ArtForz> eww
 391 2011-03-21 02:45:44 <joepie91> debian does not have all the packages that ubuntu has
 392 2011-03-21 02:45:50 <genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_tutorial_%28JSON-RPC%29#Ruby
 393 2011-03-21 02:45:59 <joepie91> know what, I'll just try the hack approach first and just run some tests
 394 2011-03-21 02:46:04 <genjix> response: python/php/perl/ruby is broken. WONTFIX.
 395 2011-03-21 02:46:05 <joepie91> and if that turns out not to work...
 396 2011-03-21 02:46:07 TheKid has left ()
 397 2011-03-21 02:46:07 <genjix> dumb.
 398 2011-03-21 02:46:15 TheKid has joined
 399 2011-03-21 02:46:15 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
 400 2011-03-21 02:46:15 TheKid has joined
 401 2011-03-21 02:46:31 <genjix> joepie91: then i will not use your service for anything critical.
 402 2011-03-21 02:46:37 <genjix> it will just be a toy...
 403 2011-03-21 02:46:45 <ArtForz> genjix: like... mtgox?
 404 2011-03-21 02:46:55 <joepie91> genjix.
 405 2011-03-21 02:47:06 <joepie91> at this moment I have no clue how to compile bitcoind on debian
 406 2011-03-21 02:47:14 <joepie91> and apparently noone has sufficient instructions
 407 2011-03-21 02:47:27 <joepie91> I can play around with my debian box for days on end to figure out how to get stuff working
 408 2011-03-21 02:47:32 <joepie91> or I can first try the shorter approach
 409 2011-03-21 02:47:37 <genjix> mtgox uses floats? i cannot see their source so i dont know.
 410 2011-03-21 02:47:37 <genjix> anyway mtgox is not a bastion of good coding
 411 2011-03-21 02:47:40 <joepie91> run sufficient tests to verify it works
 412 2011-03-21 02:47:48 <genjix> note the brute forcing of people's passwords and putting password strings in GET requests
 413 2011-03-21 02:47:52 <joepie91> and _if_ it turns out it doesn't work
 414 2011-03-21 02:47:52 <joepie91> ->
 415 2011-03-21 02:47:55 <ArtForz> genjix: well, unless they just randomly round wrong, they use floats.
 416 2011-03-21 02:47:55 <joepie91> next step
 417 2011-03-21 02:48:00 <luke-jr> joepie91: they're both hacks
 418 2011-03-21 02:48:05 <luke-jr> joepie91: genjix's hack is uglier :P
 419 2011-03-21 02:48:08 <genjix> ArtForz: yeah that's pretty shitty.
 420 2011-03-21 02:48:26 <joepie91> I have no idea how genjix' hack works so whether it's ugly or not is not something I know, nor something I really care about a lot
 421 2011-03-21 02:48:37 <joepie91> what interests me is reliability
 422 2011-03-21 02:48:39 <genjix> if i'm handling people's money then i would *never* use floats.
 423 2011-03-21 02:48:46 <joepie91> if the simple hack works 100% accurate, there is no problem
 424 2011-03-21 02:48:50 <joepie91> if it doesn't, there is a problem
 425 2011-03-21 02:48:52 <luke-jr> it does.
 426 2011-03-21 02:49:00 <joepie91> tests will tell.
 427 2011-03-21 02:49:03 <luke-jr> the hard part is really displaying it for humans
 428 2011-03-21 02:49:18 <devrandom> serious financial systems never use floats
 429 2011-03-21 02:49:40 <luke-jr> anyhow, I've been working on a real solution
 430 2011-03-21 02:49:49 <luke-jr> it takes time, and the simple hack for JSON-RPC is good enough for now
 431 2011-03-21 02:49:59 <theymos> I can't think of any common cases where you would divide money in a situation where truncating would not be OK.
 432 2011-03-21 02:50:36 <devrandom> bitcoin requires 50+ bits to represent correctly
 433 2011-03-21 02:50:41 <devrandom> I'm not sure that even fits a double
 434 2011-03-21 02:50:43 <luke-jr> you mean < 52 :P
 435 2011-03-21 02:50:58 <luke-jr> devrandom: it works fine in a 64-bit double, if everything is an integer
 436 2011-03-21 02:51:08 <luke-jr> err, double is by definition 64-bit, so yes
 437 2011-03-21 02:51:21 <devrandom> you foget that the exponent takes up bits
 438 2011-03-21 02:51:21 <luke-jr> devrandom: the problem is that values like 0.1 *cannot* be repesented exactly
 439 2011-03-21 02:51:24 <ArtForz> double has 53 bits of mantissa
 440 2011-03-21 02:51:29 <luke-jr> devrandom: no, I didn't forget
 441 2011-03-21 02:51:46 <luke-jr> devrandom: the other problem is that BTC is strictly HUMAN-SIDE, and should not be used for internals
 442 2011-03-21 02:51:53 <ArtForz> biggest possible amount fits in 51 bits
 443 2011-03-21 02:52:00 <devrandom> ok
 444 2011-03-21 02:52:08 <joepie91> simple question: if I limit the amount of decimals for a transaction to 2 (so that 0.01 is the smallest possible value), does the problem exist?
 445 2011-03-21 02:52:16 <luke-jr> joepie91: yes
 446 2011-03-21 02:52:21 <luke-jr> joepie91: also, that would be mean
 447 2011-03-21 02:52:25 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 448 2011-03-21 02:52:33 <luke-jr> joepie91: such a limitation makes TBC compatibility basically impossible
 449 2011-03-21 02:52:39 <devrandom> you shouldn't do that, because it will stop working once deflation requires smaller fractions
 450 2011-03-21 02:52:44 <joepie91> aware
 451 2011-03-21 02:52:52 <joepie91> I wouldn't ever implement it as a permanent solution, lol
 452 2011-03-21 02:53:09 <luke-jr> joepie91: what are you writign anyhow?
 453 2011-03-21 02:53:18 <joepie91> payment gateway
 454 2011-03-21 02:53:29 <joepie91> not an e-wallet thing or anything
 455 2011-03-21 02:53:43 <joepie91> basically just a "middle man" gateway that flips the switch when a payment has been sent
 456 2011-03-21 02:53:47 <joepie91> so that you can automate for example webshops
 457 2011-03-21 02:53:50 <joepie91> without needing to run bitcoind
 458 2011-03-21 02:53:52 <luke-jr> ah
 459 2011-03-21 02:54:04 <luke-jr> how do you do that without e-wallet?
 460 2011-03-21 02:54:04 <TheKid> so a webshop would integrate your software
 461 2011-03-21 02:54:06 <joepie91> it immediately forwards the payment, and no account is required to use the system
 462 2011-03-21 02:54:08 <joepie91> yup
 463 2011-03-21 02:54:12 <luke-jr> i c
 464 2011-03-21 02:54:26 <TheKid> and forwards the payment to wherever, while also sending a message to the site that payment was received
 465 2011-03-21 02:54:28 <TheKid> right?>
 466 2011-03-21 02:54:31 <joepie91> you will be able to create payment requests through both an API and a form on the site
 467 2011-03-21 02:54:32 <joepie91> yup
 468 2011-03-21 02:54:40 <joepie91> or send an email with a predefined text
 469 2011-03-21 02:54:47 <joepie91> based on what the payment "creator" sets
 470 2011-03-21 02:55:00 <luke-jr> joepie91: will you support QR-Codes?
 471 2011-03-21 02:55:16 <joepie91> it will use a double callback system, where the target of the callback will have to make a request back to the gateway to confirm the callback was legit
 472 2011-03-21 02:55:26 <joepie91> luke-jr: in what way? I haven't seen anything in regards to QR-codes and btc yet
 473 2011-03-21 02:55:26 <joepie91> ;P
 474 2011-03-21 02:55:30 <joepie91> :P*
 475 2011-03-21 02:55:30 <luke-jr> eg, a QR-Code embeds http://yourdomain/path/to/php, which generates a new address and redirects to bitcoin:address?amount=…
 476 2011-03-21 02:55:45 <joepie91> wait, I don't follow
 477 2011-03-21 02:56:00 <joepie91> rephrase? :P
 478 2011-03-21 02:56:07 <luke-jr> joepie91: QR-Codes embed URIs
 479 2011-03-21 02:56:22 <luke-jr> so your merchant would have a QR-Code that points to a script on your site
 480 2011-03-21 02:56:27 <joepie91> ah
 481 2011-03-21 02:56:35 <luke-jr> your site generates a payment address, and uses a standard HTTP Redirect to a bitcoin URI
 482 2011-03-21 02:56:46 <joepie91> well, the API will just return a page URL
 483 2011-03-21 02:56:50 <luke-jr> customer's phone pops up a transaction confirmation
 484 2011-03-21 02:56:50 <joepie91> which is essentially the payment page
 485 2011-03-21 02:56:53 <luke-jr> they click OK
 486 2011-03-21 02:56:56 <joepie91> I guess I could make it return a qr as well
 487 2011-03-21 02:57:00 <joepie91> orw ell
 488 2011-03-21 02:57:03 <joepie91> link to a qr
 489 2011-03-21 02:57:24 <joepie91> hmm... for that to work
 490 2011-03-21 02:57:25 <luke-jr> joepie91: well, this way, the customer only needs a bitcoin-compatible phone
 491 2011-03-21 02:57:28 <luke-jr> not a full browser
 492 2011-03-21 02:57:32 <joepie91> would the QR target url need to send a 302 redirect?
 493 2011-03-21 02:57:46 <joepie91> to the bitcoin uri, I mean
 494 2011-03-21 02:57:52 <noagendamarket> this is what paypal does
 495 2011-03-21 02:57:52 <devrandom> ArtForz - looks like BTC are represented as binary coded decimal in the protocol?
 496 2011-03-21 02:57:54 <noagendamarket> btw
 497 2011-03-21 02:58:10 <luke-jr> joepie91: right
 498 2011-03-21 02:58:13 <noagendamarket> you just set a price and copy the html
 499 2011-03-21 02:58:19 <ArtForz> ?
 500 2011-03-21 02:58:22 <joepie91> lol, paypal
 501 2011-03-21 02:58:28 <luke-jr> devrandom: that is self-contradictign :P
 502 2011-03-21 02:58:30 <joepie91> they have some retarded system with POST requests etc
 503 2011-03-21 02:58:34 <luke-jr> devrandom: in the p2p protocol, it's an int64
 504 2011-03-21 02:58:37 <noagendamarket> ya
 505 2011-03-21 02:58:46 <joepie91> PayPal is absolutely horrible to work with
 506 2011-03-21 02:58:48 <joepie91> srsly
 507 2011-03-21 02:59:03 <noagendamarket> I like th fact you can just copy and paste html and it adds a button :)-
 508 2011-03-21 02:59:06 <luke-jr> joepie91: this *should* use a POST request…
 509 2011-03-21 02:59:09 <devrandom>  80 FA E9 C7 00 00 00 00                           - 33.54 BTC (3354000000)
 510 2011-03-21 02:59:13 <joepie91> no, I mean for the button
 511 2011-03-21 02:59:14 <devrandom> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
 512 2011-03-21 02:59:20 <luke-jr> joepie91: it should.
 513 2011-03-21 02:59:21 <joepie91> a "paypal button" is actually an encrypted string in a hidden input
 514 2011-03-21 02:59:25 <joepie91> with a paypal image as a "submit button"
 515 2011-03-21 02:59:28 <devrandom> oh, never mind, read that incorrectly
 516 2011-03-21 02:59:31 <luke-jr> joepie91: since you need to generate an address, it should be POST
 517 2011-03-21 02:59:38 <joepie91> no, you don't
 518 2011-03-21 02:59:43 <luke-jr> um, yes you do
 519 2011-03-21 02:59:45 <joepie91> not for the actual button
 520 2011-03-21 02:59:48 <joepie91> sigh
 521 2011-03-21 02:59:50 <luke-jr> the target of it
 522 2011-03-21 02:59:54 <joepie91> I am talking about the button you place on your _site_
 523 2011-03-21 02:59:57 <joepie91> not on the paypal site
 524 2011-03-21 03:00:07 <joepie91> if you create a donation button, that button is actually a submit button image
 525 2011-03-21 03:00:08 <luke-jr> when I click the button, your page needs to generate an address for me to send to
 526 2011-03-21 03:00:10 <joepie91> with a hidden input
 527 2011-03-21 03:00:18 <joepie91> <joepie91>I am talking about the button you place on your _site_
 528 2011-03-21 03:00:18 <joepie91> <joepie91>not on the paypal site
 529 2011-03-21 03:00:28 <luke-jr> joepie91: me too
 530 2011-03-21 03:00:34 <joepie91> that does not in any way require a post request.
 531 2011-03-21 03:00:40 <luke-jr> it does
 532 2011-03-21 03:00:50 <joepie91> http://www.paybtc.com/pay/hfg8wsm
 533 2011-03-21 03:00:51 <luke-jr> because the *target* needs to generate an address
 534 2011-03-21 03:00:51 <joepie91> done
 535 2011-03-21 03:00:59 <joepie91> no post needed.
 536 2011-03-21 03:01:00 <luke-jr> joepie91: yes, you CAN do that, but it's WRONG
 537 2011-03-21 03:01:05 <joepie91> how would that be wrong?
 538 2011-03-21 03:01:22 <luke-jr> anything like that is supposed to be a POST
 539 2011-03-21 03:01:25 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 540 2011-03-21 03:01:27 <joepie91> *sigh*
 541 2011-03-21 03:01:28 <joepie91> WHY
 542 2011-03-21 03:01:32 <joepie91> would that need to be a post
 543 2011-03-21 03:01:43 <luke-jr> because you're doing something when the request comes in
 544 2011-03-21 03:01:48 <joepie91> gahhhhhhhhhhh
 545 2011-03-21 03:01:48 <luke-jr> GET is strictly for read-only
 546 2011-03-21 03:01:54 <joepie91> you don't get it
 547 2011-03-21 03:01:59 <joepie91> you create a payment page.
 548 2011-03-21 03:02:02 <luke-jr> -.-
 549 2011-03-21 03:02:05 <joepie91> that generates a payment page url
 550 2011-03-21 03:02:08 <luke-jr> GET is like 'const' on a C++ method
 551 2011-03-21 03:02:08 <joepie91> you get that url back
 552 2011-03-21 03:02:11 <joepie91> you link to that url
 553 2011-03-21 03:02:14 <joepie91> customer goes there
 554 2011-03-21 03:02:19 <joepie91> gets a "paybtc" page
 555 2011-03-21 03:02:21 <joepie91> with a bitcoin address
 556 2011-03-21 03:02:24 <joepie91> that is handled by paypal
 557 2011-03-21 03:02:27 <joepie91> or a bitcoin uri
 558 2011-03-21 03:02:29 <luke-jr> that's even worse
 559 2011-03-21 03:02:35 <luke-jr> and yes, requires a POST there
 560 2011-03-21 03:02:47 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 561 2011-03-21 03:02:48 <joepie91> you have still not clearly explained why that would require a POST.
 562 2011-03-21 03:03:03 <luke-jr> joepie91: because if the request is GET, it is invalid to act on it
 563 2011-03-21 03:03:03 <theymos> It doesn't sound like there's any action being performed, so a POST isn't necessary.
 564 2011-03-21 03:03:12 <luke-jr> theymos: generate new address is an action
 565 2011-03-21 03:03:12 <joepie91> luke-jr
 566 2011-03-21 03:03:14 <joepie91> the payment page
 567 2011-03-21 03:03:15 <joepie91> is created
 568 2011-03-21 03:03:19 <joepie91> by the server itself
 569 2011-03-21 03:03:21 <luke-jr> theymos: adding a db entry is an action
 570 2011-03-21 03:03:22 <joepie91> not by submitting a form
 571 2011-03-21 03:03:27 <joepie91> it is done when the API is called
 572 2011-03-21 03:03:34 <luke-jr> joepie91: but it's invalid for the server to create anything based on a GET
 573 2011-03-21 03:03:42 <joepie91> good god
 574 2011-03-21 03:03:49 <luke-jr> GET is only for retrieval of existing data
 575 2011-03-21 03:03:58 <joepie91> you have absolutely no clue how http works, lol
 576 2011-03-21 03:04:04 <[Tycho]> Do not create anything with GET :)
 577 2011-03-21 03:04:06 <luke-jr> joepie91: no u
 578 2011-03-21 03:04:09 <joepie91> the webshop software _itself_ makes an API call and gets back a payment url.
 579 2011-03-21 03:04:18 <luke-jr> more importantly, what you just described requires the merchant to have scripts. totally unnecessary.
 580 2011-03-21 03:04:20 <joepie91> when the API call is made
 581 2011-03-21 03:04:28 <joepie91> the payment is added into the database
 582 2011-03-21 03:04:35 <luke-jr> joepie91: that means the webshop itself needs to be a POST
 583 2011-03-21 03:04:39 <joepie91> the webshop redirects the user to the payment url that was returned
 584 2011-03-21 03:04:45 <joepie91> the user pays there
 585 2011-03-21 03:04:46 <joepie91> et voila
 586 2011-03-21 03:04:52 <luke-jr> joepie91: that's way harder than PayPal
 587 2011-03-21 03:04:59 <luke-jr> and requires more expensive servers
 588 2011-03-21 03:05:00 <joepie91> this is about as simple as it gets.
 589 2011-03-21 03:05:03 <luke-jr> no
 590 2011-03-21 03:05:10 <luke-jr> PayPal gives you a fixed piece of static code
 591 2011-03-21 03:05:11 <devrandom> it's really about GET being idempotent... two GETs should not reach a different state than one
 592 2011-03-21 03:05:15 gribble has joined
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 594 2011-03-21 03:05:29 <joepie91> luke-jr: so does this system.
 595 2011-03-21 03:05:32 <devrandom> I think it's okay to generate an address, if you don't generate it again on a second GET
 596 2011-03-21 03:05:34 <joepie91> just this piece of static code is not an entire form
 597 2011-03-21 03:05:38 <joepie91> but just a url
 598 2011-03-21 03:05:41 <[Tycho]> And it would be easier without API call from merchant.
 599 2011-03-21 03:05:47 jroot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 600 2011-03-21 03:05:49 <joepie91> all address generation is handled by paybtc itself
 601 2011-03-21 03:05:57 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
 602 2011-03-21 03:06:07 <joepie91> in the point from webshop page -> paybtc page, there is no requirement for a POST whatsoever
 603 2011-03-21 03:06:07 <luke-jr> joepie91: it is illegal to generate an address in response to a GET request.
 604 2011-03-21 03:06:27 <joepie91> sigh
 605 2011-03-21 03:06:30 <[Tycho]> I agree. Stop abusing HTTP !
 606 2011-03-21 03:06:32 <joepie91> I have explained it several times now
 607 2011-03-21 03:06:36 <joepie91> the _API_
 608 2011-03-21 03:06:39 <joepie91> makes a POST request
 609 2011-03-21 03:06:43 <joepie91> the BROWSER
 610 2011-03-21 03:06:45 <joepie91> makes a GET request
 611 2011-03-21 03:06:48 <joepie91> it is _not_ the same request
 612 2011-03-21 03:06:58 <joepie91> the API is the one that actually creates the payment page
 613 2011-03-21 03:07:00 <luke-jr> joepie91: that means the server needs to make a request
 614 2011-03-21 03:07:03 <joepie91> and gets back an url
 615 2011-03-21 03:07:06 <[Tycho]> But something is created after browser request ?
 616 2011-03-21 03:07:08 <joepie91> then the browser just has to go there
 617 2011-03-21 03:07:11 <joepie91> no
 618 2011-03-21 03:07:15 <joepie91> the browser does not create anything
 619 2011-03-21 03:07:17 <luke-jr> joepie91: that means the server needs to make a request
 620 2011-03-21 03:07:21 <joepie91> yes, it does
 621 2011-03-21 03:07:25 <luke-jr> that's ridiculous
 622 2011-03-21 03:07:32 <joepie91> as pretty much any webshop does.
 623 2011-03-21 03:07:35 <joepie91> can do*
 624 2011-03-21 03:07:36 <luke-jr> that's far more complex than PayPal and more expensive
 625 2011-03-21 03:07:47 <joepie91> for gods sake, how would that be more expensive?
 626 2011-03-21 03:07:48 <luke-jr> and SLOWER
 627 2011-03-21 03:07:56 <luke-jr> joepie91: it requires a scriptable server
 628 2011-03-21 03:07:59 <luke-jr> instead of static pages
 629 2011-03-21 03:08:00 <[Tycho]> Why webshop should make any requests ?
 630 2011-03-21 03:08:02 <joepie91> luke-jr
 631 2011-03-21 03:08:09 <joepie91> sigh
 632 2011-03-21 03:08:10 <joepie91> I give up
 633 2011-03-21 03:08:11 <joepie91> srsly
 634 2011-03-21 03:08:15 <luke-jr> static pages are far cheaper to host
 635 2011-03-21 03:08:31 <luke-jr> and doable by ordinary people
 636 2011-03-21 03:08:38 <joepie91> the address is not generated at the moment you send the api call
 637 2011-03-21 03:08:43 <joepie91> just the database entry is made at that point
 638 2011-03-21 03:08:45 amiller has joined
 639 2011-03-21 03:08:47 <luke-jr> …….
 640 2011-03-21 03:08:47 <joepie91> when you actually visit the payment page
 641 2011-03-21 03:08:51 <joepie91> the address is generated
 642 2011-03-21 03:08:53 <joepie91> the btc address
 643 2011-03-21 03:08:59 <luke-jr> THEN THE PAYMENT PAGE MUST BE A POST
 644 2011-03-21 03:09:00 <joepie91> by the payment page itself
 645 2011-03-21 03:09:03 <joepie91> no, it does not
 646 2011-03-21 03:09:06 <luke-jr> yes it does
 647 2011-03-21 03:09:08 <joepie91> it gets its data from the database
 648 2011-03-21 03:09:19 <joepie91> then tell me, what data has to be POSTed?
 649 2011-03-21 03:09:31 <luke-jr> it can be a POST without any data
 650 2011-03-21 03:09:36 <luke-jr> but it still needs to be a POST
 651 2011-03-21 03:09:39 <joepie91> then why the fuck would you do a post?
 652 2011-03-21 03:09:40 <luke-jr> because you're doing something
 653 2011-03-21 03:09:41 <devrandom> luke-jr - read http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/methods.html
 654 2011-03-21 03:09:43 <joepie91> goddamnit
 655 2011-03-21 03:09:44 <joepie91> seriously
 656 2011-03-21 03:09:46 <joepie91> lrn2http
 657 2011-03-21 03:09:46 <theymos> That seems reasonable. Just making one database entry isn't a problem. It's the repeatability of GET requests that causes problems.
 658 2011-03-21 03:09:50 <[Tycho]> joepie91, just one question - will something bad happen if some script will request GET 100000 times in a row ?
 659 2011-03-21 03:09:51 <luke-jr> joepie91: U
 660 2011-03-21 03:10:10 <joepie91> [Tycho] yes, the IP will temporarily get blocked
 661 2011-03-21 03:10:17 <joepie91> the request IP that is
 662 2011-03-21 03:10:22 <luke-jr> devrandom: you're linking the wrong person
 663 2011-03-21 03:10:39 <devrandom> luke-jr it *is* for you
 664 2011-03-21 03:10:56 <luke-jr> joepie91: if your page does any action/change, it must use POST period
 665 2011-03-21 03:11:02 <joepie91> it must not.
 666 2011-03-21 03:11:02 <luke-jr> devrandom: no, because I agree with the page
 667 2011-03-21 03:11:10 <joepie91> there is no technical requirement for that whatsoever
 668 2011-03-21 03:11:11 <[Tycho]> joepie91, why don't you think that it will be easier without additional requests ?
 669 2011-03-21 03:11:16 <devrandom> GET vs POST is about idempotent actions, not about whether there are changes made
 670 2011-03-21 03:11:19 <luke-jr> joepie91: there is a STANDARDS requirement
 671 2011-03-21 03:11:21 <joepie91> lol
 672 2011-03-21 03:11:22 <joepie91> yeah
 673 2011-03-21 03:11:28 <luke-jr> devrandom: read the definition of idempotent
 674 2011-03-21 03:11:31 <joepie91> let's bitch about semantics and make some horribly bloated errorprone code
 675 2011-03-21 03:11:32 <joepie91> instead of an url
 676 2011-03-21 03:11:42 <joepie91> have you ever ordered through for example dynadot?
 677 2011-03-21 03:11:43 <luke-jr> joepie91: standards exist for a reason
 678 2011-03-21 03:11:50 <devrandom> idempotent means that two actions are equivalent to one
 679 2011-03-21 03:11:52 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 680 2011-03-21 03:12:01 <luke-jr> devrandom: no
 681 2011-03-21 03:12:04 <joepie91> if you ever ordered from dynadot and paid through paypal, you know exactly what this POST bullshit leads to
 682 2011-03-21 03:12:10 <luke-jr> joepie91: POST works fine
 683 2011-03-21 03:12:14 <devrandom> if he is generating just one address no matter how many hits, then GET is fine
 684 2011-03-21 03:12:16 <joepie91> they want to redirect you automatically to the payment page on paypal
 685 2011-03-21 03:12:17 <joepie91> BUT
 686 2011-03-21 03:12:18 <joepie91> to do so
 687 2011-03-21 03:12:21 <joepie91> they must submit a post request
 688 2011-03-21 03:12:27 <joepie91> therefore they make a blank page with an invisible form
 689 2011-03-21 03:12:33 <joepie91> and a javascript that automatically submits the form
 690 2011-03-21 03:12:38 <joepie91> because there is no other fucking way
 691 2011-03-21 03:12:45 <joepie91> to make someone pay through paypal
 692 2011-03-21 03:12:57 <[Tycho]> You can just create a button for POST request.
 693 2011-03-21 03:13:05 <joepie91> yes, and that is exactly the issue
 694 2011-03-21 03:13:09 * luke-jr is about to write you off as an idiot
 695 2011-03-21 03:13:17 <joepie91> k, fine, write me off as an idiot
 696 2011-03-21 03:13:43 <[Tycho]> I missed the start of this discussion, but looks wrong anyway.
 697 2011-03-21 03:14:05 <luke-jr> joepie91: it is perfectly legal for a browser to hit your URI 1000 times if it is GET
 698 2011-03-21 03:14:18 <joepie91> exact same for post.
 699 2011-03-21 03:14:20 <luke-jr> joepie91: not to mention Google doing it for indexing
 700 2011-03-21 03:14:22 <luke-jr> joepie91: no
 701 2011-03-21 03:14:24 <[Tycho]> It will be rather web-spider :)
 702 2011-03-21 03:14:28 <joepie91> lmfao
 703 2011-03-21 03:14:33 <luke-jr> joepie91: POST can only be performed once
 704 2011-03-21 03:14:37 <joepie91> lolno
 705 2011-03-21 03:14:42 <[Tycho]> lolyes
 706 2011-03-21 03:14:43 <theymos> GETs can be prefectched, which can often cause problems.
 707 2011-03-21 03:14:48 <devrandom> joepie91 - he is right on that one
 708 2011-03-21 03:14:51 <luke-jr> that's why when you go to reload a POSTed page, it warns you it will resubmit
 709 2011-03-21 03:15:01 <devrandom> POST must only be redone with user approval
 710 2011-03-21 03:15:08 <joepie91> luke-jr: the point is that it doesn't matter if the user goes to the same page twice
 711 2011-03-21 03:15:13 <joepie91> no new database entries are made
 712 2011-03-21 03:15:39 <luke-jr> http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/cgifaq.2.html#9
 713 2011-03-21 03:15:50 <joepie91> 1. webshop makes request and creates payment request / vendor uses form and creates payment request (for static sites)
 714 2011-03-21 03:15:50 <joepie91> 2. payment url is returned
 715 2011-03-21 03:15:50 <joepie91> 3. vendor gives customer the payment url
 716 2011-03-21 03:15:50 <joepie91> 4. customer goes to url, makes payment
 717 2011-03-21 03:15:50 <joepie91> 5. gateway waits for payment to be confirmed, then makes callback / sends email (the latter is for static pages)
 718 2011-03-21 03:15:51 <joepie91> 6. done
 719 2011-03-21 03:15:51 <joepie91> here
 720 2011-03-21 03:15:57 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, you shouldn't worry. Merchants will choose right service anyway :)
 721 2011-03-21 03:16:03 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: good point
 722 2011-03-21 03:16:22 <joepie91> luke-jr: where did you get the idea that the get request makes a database entry?
 723 2011-03-21 03:16:40 <devrandom> joepie91 - if the browser prefetches that url, will anything unexpected happen from the point of view of the user?
 724 2011-03-21 03:16:42 <luke-jr> joepie91: you said it generates an address.
 725 2011-03-21 03:16:49 <joepie91> devrandom: nope
 726 2011-03-21 03:16:52 <joepie91> luke-jr: yup.
 727 2011-03-21 03:16:56 <joepie91> so?
 728 2011-03-21 03:16:59 <luke-jr> joepie91: that's the same thing
 729 2011-03-21 03:16:59 <[Tycho]> joepie91, "vendor uses form and creates payment request" - åach time when something is going to be sold or once per item type ?
 730 2011-03-21 03:17:00 <devrandom> then GET is fine...
 731 2011-03-21 03:17:40 <joepie91> [Tycho]: that depends. if the vendor wants to make callbacks (which indicates he already would have a scripting language available to him) then he should make a new payment request for every order
 732 2011-03-21 03:17:55 <joepie91> if he just wants to send out an email with for example a download link, he can use the same payment page for every customer
 733 2011-03-21 03:18:01 <luke-jr> joepie91: it doesn't indicate that.
 734 2011-03-21 03:18:09 <joepie91> it doesn't indicate what?
 735 2011-03-21 03:18:22 <luke-jr> his callbacks might be on another more expensive server than his storefront
 736 2011-03-21 03:18:43 <joepie91> I have yet to see the first webshop that uses a non-scripting frontend and a scripting backend
 737 2011-03-21 03:19:07 <joepie91> if a store has enough money to set up two servers in the first place
 738 2011-03-21 03:19:15 <joepie91> he won't be having static hosting without any scripting
 739 2011-03-21 03:19:17 <luke-jr> shared hosting.
 740 2011-03-21 03:19:22 <joepie91> yes, what's with it?
 741 2011-03-21 03:19:32 <joepie91> I can make an API call from my shared host just fine.
 742 2011-03-21 03:19:43 <luke-jr> and even if he has 2 servers, enough traffic could possibly require static pages everywhere possible
 743 2011-03-21 03:19:58 <joepie91> link me to one webshop who does that.
 744 2011-03-21 03:20:15 <luke-jr> they wouldn't be open source most likely
 745 2011-03-21 03:20:20 <joepie91> I didn't say that.
 746 2011-03-21 03:20:28 striped has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 747 2011-03-21 03:20:38 <luke-jr> it's impossible to tell without source
 748 2011-03-21 03:20:41 <joepie91> (and seriously, there are little cases where there would be SO much traffic and SO little budget that such an odd and impractical setup would be warranted)
 749 2011-03-21 03:20:42 <joepie91> lolno
 750 2011-03-21 03:20:46 <joepie91> that's bullshit.
 751 2011-03-21 03:21:10 <joepie91> from extension + page behaviour (for example, are there dynamic elements) you can perfectly fine derive if it has a static frontend
 752 2011-03-21 03:21:11 * luke-jr goes to do something productive.
 753 2011-03-21 03:21:31 <joepie91> you are thinking from some completely impractical server setup that I have _never_ seen being used
 754 2011-03-21 03:21:55 <joepie91> well, maybe there will be two stores on this globe who can't use the mentioned system, as opposed to tens of thousands who can (if not more)
 755 2011-03-21 03:22:33 <[Tycho]> I don't think that it's really needed to support static-only sites, but still don't see why should merchant make API requests.
 756 2011-03-21 03:22:54 <[Tycho]> Everything can be done stateless.
 757 2011-03-21 03:23:05 <joepie91> because that would be the only way to create new payment requests without any risk of tampering with it.
 758 2011-03-21 03:23:23 <joepie91> you can't make the pay button tell the gateway what the finally-to-be-sent email is
 759 2011-03-21 03:23:23 <[Tycho]> What tampering do you mean ?
 760 2011-03-21 03:23:38 <joepie91> assume I'd use the POST button to tell the gateway how the request should be made
 761 2011-03-21 03:23:46 <joepie91> it would have to include the recipient address
 762 2011-03-21 03:23:47 <joepie91> the amount
 763 2011-03-21 03:23:53 <joepie91> and the callback or email that has to be sent
 764 2011-03-21 03:24:13 <joepie91> would be quite easy to figure out what the final email to be sent is then?
 765 2011-03-21 03:24:17 <[Tycho]> It should include only one magic number. Or merchant code + amount.
 766 2011-03-21 03:24:18 <joepie91> without actually paying
 767 2011-03-21 03:24:27 <joepie91> or as is seen with the old paypal trick
 768 2011-03-21 03:24:29 <joepie91> changing to 1 cent
 769 2011-03-21 03:24:44 <joepie91> yes, and that would require either the merchant submitting a form
 770 2011-03-21 03:24:45 <joepie91> or an API call
 771 2011-03-21 03:24:46 <[Tycho]> Merchant will check how much money was paid anyway.
 772 2011-03-21 03:24:52 <joepie91> not if it's automated.
 773 2011-03-21 03:25:00 <joepie91> that is the entire point of this gateway
 774 2011-03-21 03:25:02 <joepie91> to automate it
 775 2011-03-21 03:25:02 <[Tycho]> Submitting a form is fine.
 776 2011-03-21 03:25:06 <joepie91> well
 777 2011-03-21 03:25:08 <joepie91> then what is the issue?
 778 2011-03-21 03:25:24 <joepie91> that is exactly the system I proposed, only is ALL data stored on the server, not just the amount and merchant code
 779 2011-03-21 03:25:27 <[Tycho]> User should submit a form, not the site.
 780 2011-03-21 03:25:31 <joepie91> it would require the same degree of interaction
 781 2011-03-21 03:25:35 <joepie91> ..
 782 2011-03-21 03:25:50 <joepie91> the merchant still has to create the payment button, right?
 783 2011-03-21 03:25:56 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 784 2011-03-21 03:25:58 <joepie91> exactly.
 785 2011-03-21 03:26:13 <joepie91> and that is _exactly_ what the API / form (depending on what kind of site) does in my idea
 786 2011-03-21 03:26:25 <joepie91> either he uses the API if he has scripting
 787 2011-03-21 03:26:33 <joepie91> or he uses the form on paybtc.com itself to create a payment request
 788 2011-03-21 03:26:49 <[Tycho]> No, you said that merchant's SERVER should make a request to your API
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 790 2011-03-21 03:26:57 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 791 2011-03-21 03:27:02 <joepie91> <joepie91>1. webshop makes request and creates payment request / vendor uses form and creates payment request (for static sites)
 792 2011-03-21 03:27:05 <joepie91> ^
 793 2011-03-21 03:27:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114335 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 576 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66275.25708289
 794 2011-03-21 03:27:23 <joepie91> as I have said a few times
 795 2011-03-21 03:27:25 <joepie91> either the API
 796 2011-03-21 03:27:27 <joepie91> or the on-site form
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 798 2011-03-21 03:29:24 <joepie91> so again, I fail to see where a POST request would come into the picture anywhere here, except for the (optional) API call
 799 2011-03-21 03:29:38 <joepie91> (or the form that the merchant fills in)
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 802 2011-03-21 03:30:27 <[Tycho]> You create a database entry on GET. That's not good.
 803 2011-03-21 03:30:34 <joepie91> no, I do not
 804 2011-03-21 03:30:36 <[Tycho]> If it's not the counter :)
 805 2011-03-21 03:30:43 <joepie91> for the umpteenth time
 806 2011-03-21 03:30:48 <joepie91> the database request is created
 807 2011-03-21 03:30:50 <joepie91> err
 808 2011-03-21 03:30:51 <joepie91> entry*
 809 2011-03-21 03:30:55 <joepie91> when the API call is made
 810 2011-03-21 03:30:58 <joepie91> or when the merchant fills in the form
 811 2011-03-21 03:31:06 <joepie91> which are both POST requests
 812 2011-03-21 03:31:11 <joepie91> when the BUYER follows the payment link
 813 2011-03-21 03:31:17 <joepie91> he does a GET request
 814 2011-03-21 03:31:20 <[Tycho]> Ok.
 815 2011-03-21 03:31:26 <joepie91> and the resulting page will provide him with a bitcoin address that is generated at that time
 816 2011-03-21 03:31:37 <joepie91> getting the payment data from the db
 817 2011-03-21 03:31:59 <[Tycho]> The bitcoin addres will be the same if he refreshes that page ?
 818 2011-03-21 03:32:14 <joepie91> no, that would make payments for static sites impossible
 819 2011-03-21 03:32:42 <joepie91> who cannot generate a new payment request every time a customer wants to buy
 820 2011-03-21 03:32:42 <[Tycho]> So if he clicks on "Refresh", he will got another bitcoin address ?
 821 2011-03-21 03:32:44 <joepie91> yes
 822 2011-03-21 03:32:54 <joepie91> the point is that that does not matter
 823 2011-03-21 03:32:55 <[Tycho]> With GET ? That's so wrong.
 824 2011-03-21 03:33:00 <joepie91> why would taht be wrong?
 825 2011-03-21 03:33:05 <joepie91> and not just "because standards"
 826 2011-03-21 03:33:13 <[Tycho]> You should not generate anything on GET.
 827 2011-03-21 03:33:14 <joepie91> because that is a bullshit reason if standards impair usability
 828 2011-03-21 03:33:26 <joepie91> it's not even standards
 829 2011-03-21 03:33:31 <[Tycho]> Standarts are here to IMPROVE usability.
 830 2011-03-21 03:33:31 <luke-jr> joepie91: never heard of PGP?
 831 2011-03-21 03:33:32 <joepie91> it's a recommendation, it's semantics
 832 2011-03-21 03:33:47 <joepie91> exactly, they are here to improve them
 833 2011-03-21 03:33:57 <joepie91> so if they don't, it's dumb to go nitpicking over the type of request
 834 2011-03-21 03:34:02 <joepie91> if it's clear one works better than the other
 835 2011-03-21 03:34:26 <[Tycho]> joepie91, how many times user is allowed to load that page ?
 836 2011-03-21 03:34:28 <luke-jr> joepie91: there is NOTHING wrong with POST
 837 2011-03-21 03:34:29 <joepie91> in fact, whereas a simple get request will work everywhere, a post button will give issues with various mobile browsers\
 838 2011-03-21 03:34:31 <luke-jr> POST works fine
 839 2011-03-21 03:34:42 <joepie91> [Tycho]: I'd say 3 times for the same payment url, after that he gets a temp IP block
 840 2011-03-21 03:35:03 <luke-jr> joepie91: pretty sure my browser will send stuff 3x in some cases
 841 2011-03-21 03:35:09 <luke-jr> GETs that is
 842 2011-03-21 03:35:15 <joepie91> luke-jr: there is nothing wrong with POST itself, there is something wrong with stuffing POST buttons and invisible forms on pages
 843 2011-03-21 03:35:18 <joepie91> to go to another page
 844 2011-03-21 03:35:23 <luke-jr> no, there isn't.
 845 2011-03-21 03:35:27 <joepie91> there is.
 846 2011-03-21 03:35:28 <luke-jr> that's perfectly valid
 847 2011-03-21 03:35:29 <[Tycho]> Pretty sure someone will refresh it, may be because of internet lag or something else.
 848 2011-03-21 03:35:40 <joepie91> [Tycho]: they will, of course
 849 2011-03-21 03:35:43 <joepie91> which is why it's on 3
 850 2011-03-21 03:35:45 <joepie91> or maybe even more
 851 2011-03-21 03:35:47 <luke-jr> idiot
 852 2011-03-21 03:36:13 * [Tycho] just replaced all GET links to POST buttons in my pool few days ago :)
 853 2011-03-21 03:36:23 <joepie91> know what?
 854 2011-03-21 03:36:25 <joepie91> we'll see if it works.
 855 2011-03-21 03:37:58 <joepie91> when it;s running, send some 0.01btc payments to yourself
 856 2011-03-21 03:38:01 <joepie91> so you see it works
 857 2011-03-21 03:38:04 <joepie91> there are no transaction costs, anyway
 858 2011-03-21 03:39:33 <genjix> im really happy since i've been running lots of Q&A for the last few days on my exchange trying to break it
 859 2011-03-21 03:40:15 <genjix> and the only problems are either not my fault (google/yahoo) or due to user error (me entering incorrect SQL commands to simulate a deposit)
 860 2011-03-21 03:40:25 <genjix> bodes well.
 861 2011-03-21 03:43:53 * joepie91 is going to sleep
 862 2011-03-21 03:43:56 <joepie91> night all
 863 2011-03-21 03:57:28 <genjix> Blitzboom: i got the fundz :)
 864 2011-03-21 03:57:57 <Blitzboom> good to hear!
 865 2011-03-21 03:59:19 naskashy has joined
 866 2011-03-21 04:00:16 <naskashy> hi guys !
 867 2011-03-21 04:01:21 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 868 2011-03-21 04:01:43 skeledrew has joined
 869 2011-03-21 04:02:12 <naskashy> i instaled the bitcoin under linux envirenment and it working fine now
 870 2011-03-21 04:03:36 <naskashy> but the GUI don't opened on fluxbox
 871 2011-03-21 04:04:24 <naskashy> just under gnome
 872 2011-03-21 04:08:20 <Aciid> genjix: http://i.imgur.com/ZdkAD.png
 873 2011-03-21 04:08:27 <Aciid> it's shit like this with the current ISP
 874 2011-03-21 04:09:03 <Aciid> in the middle of a 10GB transfer it may come up with those shits every 6hours or so, for no apparent reason
 875 2011-03-21 04:09:59 <Aciid> *Server ISP
 876 2011-03-21 04:10:45 <Aciid> ridicilous
 877 2011-03-21 04:13:05 <Aciid> ah got the the userdir slashed out now
 878 2011-03-21 04:13:22 <Aciid> I didn't have the php5.conf loaded which told about the userdir php_engine
 879 2011-03-21 04:17:59 <Aciid> hmm I wonder is it possible to sudo only some commands
 880 2011-03-21 04:18:30 <Aciid> excuse my paranoia
 881 2011-03-21 04:19:41 <genjix> Aciid: i dont get it
 882 2011-03-21 04:20:11 <genjix> also: not linux :p
 883 2011-03-21 04:20:36 <Aciid> genjix: pondering about the possibility to add a user which could sudo. without giving me a headache
 884 2011-03-21 04:20:47 <Aciid> I think I got it
 885 2011-03-21 04:20:49 <Aciid> I must try
 886 2011-03-21 04:21:04 * Kiba is ready to add article to the Bitcoin Weekly
 887 2011-03-21 04:23:01 lfm has joined
 888 2011-03-21 04:24:23 <Aciid> genjix: my god it works
 889 2011-03-21 04:24:58 Netsniper has joined
 890 2011-03-21 04:25:38 <Aciid> if I propose you to try to live with me , should you accept this mere apology. for all the shenningans I've caused?
 891 2011-03-21 04:25:43 <Aciid> genjix:
 892 2011-03-21 04:25:47 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 893 2011-03-21 04:26:07 <Kiba> finally
 894 2011-03-21 04:26:09 <Kiba> I can rest now
 895 2011-03-21 04:26:14 <luke-jr> genjix: I think I finally fixed all the bugs with confirmation counting XD
 896 2011-03-21 04:26:46 <luke-jr> testing tongiht before I commit
 897 2011-03-21 04:27:59 SykeP has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 898 2011-03-21 04:28:25 <genjix> luke-jr: cool
 899 2011-03-21 04:28:34 <genjix> been working on other stuff for time being :p
 900 2011-03-21 04:30:01 * Kiba is finally done
 901 2011-03-21 04:31:25 <Kiba> http://bitcoinweekly.com finally have content!
 902 2011-03-21 04:40:15 <naskashy> Nice article !
 903 2011-03-21 04:40:19 <naskashy> ;)
 904 2011-03-21 04:40:24 SykeP has joined
 905 2011-03-21 04:47:42 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 290000
 906 2011-03-21 04:48:07 <[Tycho]> Kiba, so where is the content ?
 907 2011-03-21 04:48:13 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 290000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3.82825867141 BTC per day and 0.159510777975 BTC per hour.
 908 2011-03-21 04:49:47 <Kiba> [Tycho]: it's on http://bitcoinweekly.com
 909 2011-03-21 04:49:53 <[Tycho]> Oh, i'm supposed to click on the title..
 910 2011-03-21 04:51:02 MinerT has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 911 2011-03-21 04:54:05 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 912 2011-03-21 05:03:34 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 913 2011-03-21 05:04:04 <Kiba> somebody is polluting witcoin with sexting stuff
 914 2011-03-21 05:04:13 <Kiba> but I am gald that they have to pay
 915 2011-03-21 05:04:16 <Kiba> for their pollution
 916 2011-03-21 05:05:15 <devrandom> ArtForz - do you know why stuff like OP_XOR was disabled?  I can't think how that can be used to cause a crash
 917 2011-03-21 05:05:38 <devrandom> OP_MUL and OP_CAT are pretty obvious
 918 2011-03-21 05:06:07 <theymos> Satoshi probably became paranoid.
 919 2011-03-21 05:06:31 <[Tycho]> Kiba, it's xellister
 920 2011-03-21 05:07:05 <Kiba> what make you think that?
 921 2011-03-21 05:07:36 <devrandom> theymos - I see
 922 2011-03-21 05:23:31 neptunepink has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 923 2011-03-21 05:24:48 <theymos> Gavin did yet another intervew: http://tinyurl.com/482qpgr
 924 2011-03-21 05:26:00 Blitzboom_ has joined
 925 2011-03-21 05:26:41 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 926 2011-03-21 05:27:42 <Kiba> go Gavin!
 927 2011-03-21 05:30:00 <naskashy> Lately, what is the total number of blocks ?
 928 2011-03-21 05:30:16 <theymos> ;;bc,stats
 929 2011-03-21 05:30:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114350 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 561 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 12 hours, 18 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66456.77131848
 930 2011-03-21 05:31:35 <naskashy> thanks !! i already got 114223
 931 2011-03-21 05:31:41 <naskashy> :)
 932 2011-03-21 05:32:30 purpleposeidon has joined
 933 2011-03-21 05:32:33 <theymos> Did you solve that display issue you were having?
 934 2011-03-21 05:33:03 <Kiba> hmm
 935 2011-03-21 05:33:07 <Kiba> witcoin is slow loading
 936 2011-03-21 05:33:57 <naskashy> nope, i'm on gnome
 937 2011-03-21 05:34:08 <Kiba> had anybody been able to load witcoin?
 938 2011-03-21 05:34:19 <theymos> naskashy: You should post about it on the forum.
 939 2011-03-21 05:34:23 <ArtForz> devrandom: nope
 940 2011-03-21 05:34:41 <Kiba> witcoin is down!
 941 2011-03-21 05:34:43 <Kiba> halp!
 942 2011-03-21 05:34:43 <naskashy> ok
 943 2011-03-21 05:34:55 <devrandom> ArtForz - thanks
 944 2011-03-21 05:34:59 <noagendamarket> no its not kiba
 945 2011-03-21 05:35:21 <Kiba> well, it was down
 946 2011-03-21 05:35:55 <noagendamarket> maybe it was your connection :)
 947 2011-03-21 05:36:29 <Kiba> wee!
 948 2011-03-21 05:36:32 <Kiba> I made money!
 949 2011-03-21 05:36:34 <theymos> It was also down for me. It looked like someone was changing something, since I got a blank page.
 950 2011-03-21 05:37:07 <noagendamarket> you dos'd it lol
 951 2011-03-21 05:37:16 <Kiba> it seem that all my posts made me money now :D
 952 2011-03-21 05:37:29 <Kiba> witcoin posting is a profitable enterprise for kiba
 953 2011-03-21 05:37:36 <Kiba> virtually all his posts made him money :D
 954 2011-03-21 05:37:40 <theymos> Witcoin should hide NSFW from the default homepage.
 955 2011-03-21 05:38:08 <noagendamarket> yeah we are tyalking about that
 956 2011-03-21 05:38:12 <Kiba> I don't like the sexting content and wonders who would vote for them
 957 2011-03-21 05:38:20 <Kiba> poor quality
 958 2011-03-21 05:39:22 <noagendamarket> I dont see anyone voting for them
 959 2011-03-21 05:39:55 <theymos> Some of them have 3 votes.
 960 2011-03-21 05:40:37 <theymos> He's probably using alt accounts. The quality is low.
 961 2011-03-21 05:40:50 <Kiba> not sexy at all :(
 962 2011-03-21 05:40:58 <Kiba> blah, let him spend his money
 963 2011-03-21 05:41:34 <noagendamarket> I think someone had a domain that received lots of text messages like that by mistake
 964 2011-03-21 05:41:42 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
 965 2011-03-21 05:41:58 <Kiba> well, spammers don't get a free lunch right?
 966 2011-03-21 05:42:11 <noagendamarket> no they dont
 967 2011-03-21 05:42:22 <noagendamarket> its posted on a category that costs .01
 968 2011-03-21 05:42:34 <noagendamarket> so must have money to burn imo
 969 2011-03-21 05:43:17 dust1 has joined
 970 2011-03-21 05:43:46 Sthebig has quit (Quit: /quit)
 971 2011-03-21 05:44:19 <Kiba> noagendamarket: hopefully nobody upvote his dreadful content
 972 2011-03-21 05:44:44 Sthebig has joined
 973 2011-03-21 05:45:07 * Kiba is happy that he recovers his investment in witcoin
 974 2011-03-21 05:45:19 <Kiba> night
 975 2011-03-21 05:47:07 dissipate has joined
 976 2011-03-21 05:47:08 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
 977 2011-03-21 05:47:08 dissipate has joined
 978 2011-03-21 05:47:51 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
 979 2011-03-21 05:49:40 rabid_marmot_ has joined
 980 2011-03-21 05:56:55 Spenvo has joined
 981 2011-03-21 05:59:05 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 982 2011-03-21 06:00:22 rabid_marmot_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 983 2011-03-21 06:04:59 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
 984 2011-03-21 06:27:48 naskashy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 985 2011-03-21 06:31:53 da2ce7 has quit ()
 986 2011-03-21 06:35:55 da2ce7 has joined
 987 2011-03-21 06:35:56 <euclid> url for witcoin?
 988 2011-03-21 06:37:17 <Spenvo> ? www.witcoin.com
 989 2011-03-21 06:38:11 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 990 2011-03-21 06:38:46 <euclid> sorry I'm new
 991 2011-03-21 06:39:35 <Spenvo> it's cool!  bitcoin.witcoin.com is a forum for bitcoin topics :)
 992 2011-03-21 06:40:35 <euclid> do you mind if I ask some questions?
 993 2011-03-21 06:40:38 <Kiba> it's crazy people can post thousand of topics about bitcoin!
 994 2011-03-21 06:40:46 <Kiba> it's just a digital currency!
 995 2011-03-21 06:40:58 <Kiba> euclid: ask away
 996 2011-03-21 06:42:05 <euclid> Is the 5770 the only way to go?
 997 2011-03-21 06:42:12 <Kiba> don't know anything about mining
 998 2011-03-21 06:42:28 * Kiba is not a miner
 999 2011-03-21 06:42:43 <euclid> how to you post 'thoughts' like that
1000 2011-03-21 06:43:16 <euclid> with a * i mean
1001 2011-03-21 06:43:21 <euclid> *thinking
1002 2011-03-21 06:43:49 <Kiba>  /me whateveryouwant
1003 2011-03-21 06:44:15 * euclid working!
1004 2011-03-21 06:44:46 sgornick has joined
1005 2011-03-21 06:44:58 <euclid> Is mtgox the only major exchange?
1006 2011-03-21 06:45:30 <Spenvo> it's the biggest, but coinpal is well trusted
1007 2011-03-21 06:45:31 <theymos> It's the most major, but there are a few others, such as Bitcoin Central and Bitcoin Market.
1008 2011-03-21 06:46:14 <genjix> and soon to be britcoin :)
1009 2011-03-21 06:46:40 <genjix> euclid: /me is thinking
1010 2011-03-21 06:46:43 <euclid> Is mining profitable using 5770's? if so how many?
1011 2011-03-21 06:46:47 * genjix is thinking
1012 2011-03-21 06:47:10 <euclid> *dollar signs in his eyes
1013 2011-03-21 06:47:13 <euclid> fuck
1014 2011-03-21 06:47:18 * euclid *dollar signs in his eyes
1015 2011-03-21 06:47:23 <ArtForz> 5970 is where it's at
1016 2011-03-21 06:47:36 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1017 2011-03-21 06:47:37 dust2 has joined
1018 2011-03-21 06:48:02 <ArtForz> or undervolted 5870
1019 2011-03-21 06:48:10 <genjix> ;;bc,seen MagicalTux
1020 2011-03-21 06:48:10 <gribble> Error: "bc,seen" is not a valid command.
1021 2011-03-21 06:48:11 <ArtForz> 5770 power efficiency is ~30% worse
1022 2011-03-21 06:48:14 <ZenMondo> I think it reaches a point that mining a coin will be more expensive than what you can spend it on.
1023 2011-03-21 06:48:15 <genjix> ;;seen MagicalTux
1024 2011-03-21 06:48:15 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 3 hours, 49 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> (anyway cya)
1025 2011-03-21 06:48:28 <ArtForz> ZenMondo: that would be... weird
1026 2011-03-21 06:48:49 <MagicalTux> genjix: I'm here
1027 2011-03-21 06:48:49 <MagicalTux> xD
1028 2011-03-21 06:49:14 <genjix> oh hey :p any chance to get setup on the vps yet?
1029 2011-03-21 06:49:26 <genjix> dissipate is poking me on PM
1030 2011-03-21 06:50:01 <euclid> I did some math when the price was around 0.90 and it would take 4 5770's and about 3 months to make back your investment, if the value goes up past a dollar all coins mined now will be more valuable than coins generated in the future, correct? Or is my logic fanciful
1031 2011-03-21 06:50:29 <genjix> your logic is fanciful but im not sure if it's wrong.
1032 2011-03-21 06:50:35 <ArtForz> one coin is worth as much as any other coin
1033 2011-03-21 06:50:49 <ArtForz> doesnt matter if it was mined today or 2 years ago
1034 2011-03-21 06:51:01 <euclid> in terms of electricity and hardware I think not...
1035 2011-03-21 06:51:17 <MagicalTux> er ?
1036 2011-03-21 06:51:23 <MagicalTux> genjix: you need anything else?
1037 2011-03-21 06:51:26 <ArtForz> huh?
1038 2011-03-21 06:51:35 <genjix> MagicalTux: i never got the login details or anything.
1039 2011-03-21 06:51:52 <MagicalTux> genjix: I told you, reinstall your vps and the root password will be the password displayed on the interface for vnc
1040 2011-03-21 06:51:53 <euclid> If difficulty increases coins become harder to come by... or am I missing something, I am new
1041 2011-03-21 06:51:59 <ArtForz> well, that doesnt change the value of the coin, just the cost to generate it
1042 2011-03-21 06:52:05 <ArtForz> sure
1043 2011-03-21 06:52:20 <ZenMondo> Anyone here besides [Noodles] on Second Life?
1044 2011-03-21 06:52:40 <euclid> But thats my point, gold found on the ground is more valuable than gold 1000ft below the ground
1045 2011-03-21 06:52:49 <ArtForz> no, it's not
1046 2011-03-21 06:52:51 <euclid> even though gold = gold
1047 2011-03-21 06:53:07 <genjix> MagicalTux: there's nothing under hosting...
1048 2011-03-21 06:53:13 <MagicalTux> genjix: login to autovps.net with your kalyhost login then
1049 2011-03-21 06:53:16 <ArtForz> it's still the same value
1050 2011-03-21 06:53:18 <MagicalTux> (will be easier)
1051 2011-03-21 06:53:22 <genjix> ok thanks
1052 2011-03-21 06:53:24 <ZenMondo> its not that its worth more its that it cost less to obtain.
1053 2011-03-21 06:53:24 <ArtForz> you keep mixing up cost and value
1054 2011-03-21 06:53:46 <euclid> I though they were directly related
1055 2011-03-21 06:53:52 <ArtForz> errr... no
1056 2011-03-21 06:54:13 <genjix> MagicalTux: how can I get Ubuntu btw ? :p
1057 2011-03-21 06:54:24 <genjix> debian is ancient.
1058 2011-03-21 06:54:34 <MagicalTux> genjix: use virtual cd loader and install via vnc
1059 2011-03-21 06:54:39 <genjix> ok
1060 2011-03-21 06:54:57 <MagicalTux> note that once you change the cd you may have to switch off then start again the vps
1061 2011-03-21 06:54:59 <euclid> Rather a mining operation is more profitable when the gold is easier to obtain
1062 2011-03-21 06:55:02 <genjix> oh sweet
1063 2011-03-21 06:55:06 <ArtForz> yep
1064 2011-03-21 06:55:11 <MagicalTux> (use the power menu for that)
1065 2011-03-21 06:55:19 <genjix> ok autovps is really nice
1066 2011-03-21 06:55:27 <genjix> how comes you don't have this by default?
1067 2011-03-21 06:55:50 <ArtForz> I expect $/Mhash will keep dropping, though probably at a slower pace
1068 2011-03-21 06:56:43 <euclid> ArtForz, you mean (hardware + electricity) /Mhash
1069 2011-03-21 06:56:49 <ArtForz> no
1070 2011-03-21 06:56:58 <euclid> ArtForz, o
1071 2011-03-21 06:57:06 <ArtForz> generated btc * market price / mhash
1072 2011-03-21 06:57:53 <ArtForz> imo mining is still way to profitable to level off soon
1073 2011-03-21 06:58:00 <euclid> ArtForz, I don't understand bitcoin economics well enough...
1074 2011-03-21 06:58:12 <ArtForz> ;;bc,gen 650000
1075 2011-03-21 06:58:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 650000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 8.58057978074 BTC per day and 0.357524157531 BTC per hour.
1076 2011-03-21 06:58:38 <euclid> haha thats so cool
1077 2011-03-21 06:58:39 <ArtForz> thats one 5970, power cost... about $0.80/day at $0.1/kWh
1078 2011-03-21 06:59:37 <euclid> hmm
1079 2011-03-21 06:59:42 <ArtForz> so power cost is... about $0.093/btc
1080 2011-03-21 06:59:52 <ArtForz> ;;bc,mtgox
1081 2011-03-21 06:59:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.79,"low":0.7405,"vol":4467,"buy":0.7407,"sell":0.7675,"last":0.7724}}
1082 2011-03-21 07:00:04 <euclid> that makes sense
1083 2011-03-21 07:00:11 <ArtForz> while market price is north of $0.74/btc
1084 2011-03-21 07:01:09 <euclid> What do you think the price will be in 4 months say? 1 year ? 4 years?
1085 2011-03-21 07:01:22 <euclid> upwards of a dollar?
1086 2011-03-21 07:01:54 <euclid> I mean I know this is speculation but for shits and giggles
1087 2011-03-21 07:01:54 <ArtForz> no clue
1088 2011-03-21 07:02:29 <ArtForz> as long as a decent majority of miners uses GPUs and pays for their power, I'm not concerned
1089 2011-03-21 07:02:48 <euclid> fair enough
1090 2011-03-21 07:03:04 <theymos> That's pretty profitable. I'm surprised difficulty is going down.
1091 2011-03-21 07:03:13 <ArtForz> theymos: yeah, kinda surprising
1092 2011-03-21 07:03:38 <Blitzboom> psychology
1093 2011-03-21 07:03:44 <ArtForz> ofc I'm using ASICs that use < 10% of the power of GPUs for the same hashrate
1094 2011-03-21 07:04:12 <euclid> Where can you get ASICs for bitcoin?
1095 2011-03-21 07:04:21 <ArtForz> I had em manufactured
1096 2011-03-21 07:04:28 <euclid> lol your the man!
1097 2011-03-21 07:04:57 <euclid> Would you happen to be selling said money machine?
1098 2011-03-21 07:04:59 <ArtForz> ~19.2Ghps online, another 19.2Ghps arriving in ~7wks
1099 2011-03-21 07:06:01 <theymos> Are you going to buy more of the same type after you get that?
1100 2011-03-21 07:06:15 <euclid> are you an EE?
1101 2011-03-21 07:06:18 <ArtForz> yep
1102 2011-03-21 07:06:28 <ArtForz> probably not, I dont like the cooling issues
1103 2011-03-21 07:06:42 <euclid> ArtForz, my hat is off to you
1104 2011-03-21 07:07:10 <Blitzboom> EE=?
1105 2011-03-21 07:07:24 <euclid> Electrical Engineer
1106 2011-03-21 07:07:25 <ArtForz> I'm hoping xilinx gets their ass off the ground, artix7 FPGAs look *very* interesting
1107 2011-03-21 07:08:50 <ArtForz> the 165 should be big enough to fit a complete pipelined bitcoinhash engine
1108 2011-03-21 07:09:27 <ArtForz> err, the 175
1109 2011-03-21 07:09:47 <ArtForz> if they're at least as fast as spartan6s, thats ~150Mhps
1110 2011-03-21 07:10:03 <euclid> So GPU mining will soon be a thing of the past?
1111 2011-03-21 07:10:23 Spenvo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1112 2011-03-21 07:10:34 <ArtForz> biggest spartan6 = lx150 is just a bit too small to fit a complete bitcoinhash engine
1113 2011-03-21 07:10:46 <ArtForz> and virtexes are WAY too expensive
1114 2011-03-21 07:10:54 <Mango-chan> s> 270 bitcoins
1115 2011-03-21 07:12:10 <euclid> Who makes the bitcoinhash engine?
1116 2011-03-21 07:12:10 <ArtForz> if XC7A175T costs less than $200, it should be a pretty good deal
1117 2011-03-21 07:12:31 <ArtForz> erm, I did
1118 2011-03-21 07:12:49 <euclid> I presume that its not opensource
1119 2011-03-21 07:12:55 <ArtForz> nope
1120 2011-03-21 07:13:05 <euclid> was it tough to make>
1121 2011-03-21 07:13:12 <ArtForz> not really
1122 2011-03-21 07:13:43 <ArtForz> more like tedious
1123 2011-03-21 07:13:47 <euclid> It just computes the hash functions?
1124 2011-03-21 07:13:50 <ArtForz> yup
1125 2011-03-21 07:14:03 * euclid flys off the deep end no knowing what hes talking about
1126 2011-03-21 07:14:14 <ArtForz> well, it also does the nonce incrementing and H==0 comparing
1127 2011-03-21 07:14:52 <euclid> That would be the proof I'm assuming?
1128 2011-03-21 07:15:09 <ArtForz> well, it's difficulty 1 proof of work aka a pool share
1129 2011-03-21 07:15:11 * euclid fail
1130 2011-03-21 07:15:29 <ArtForz> host then checks against real target
1131 2011-03-21 07:15:49 <[Tycho]> How do you interface your chips to host?
1132 2011-03-21 07:15:54 <euclid> and this goes on until it hits the current difficulty?
1133 2011-03-21 07:16:06 <ArtForz> spartan6 w/ full speed USB
1134 2011-03-21 07:16:21 <[Tycho]> No, the ASICS.
1135 2011-03-21 07:16:24 <ArtForz> yes
1136 2011-03-21 07:16:32 <ArtForz> 8 ASICs are connected to a spartan6 lx16
1137 2011-03-21 07:17:11 <ArtForz> which just acts as a glorified usb<->custom serial protocol translator
1138 2011-03-21 07:17:33 <Diablo-D3> heh
1139 2011-03-21 07:17:47 <ArtForz> then 4 of those are connected to a 4-port usb hub
1140 2011-03-21 07:18:56 dust2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1141 2011-03-21 07:20:06 <ArtForz> so each module has 8 ASICs, 4 modules in a 2U, connected to controller PC via single high-speed USB link
1142 2011-03-21 07:20:29 <euclid> whats lx16?
1143 2011-03-21 07:20:36 <[Tycho]> Will be there a photo available ?
1144 2011-03-21 07:20:39 <ArtForz> erm, the model
1145 2011-03-21 07:20:44 <ArtForz> nope
1146 2011-03-21 07:20:47 <euclid> gotcha
1147 2011-03-21 07:21:17 <ArtForz> so each 2U = 32 ASICs @ 200Mhz = 6.4Ghps, consuming ~300W
1148 2011-03-21 07:21:25 <ArtForz> well, average
1149 2011-03-21 07:21:35 <ArtForz> when ambient temp rises it's closer to 350W
1150 2011-03-21 07:21:48 <euclid> whats the price tag on a rig like that?
1151 2011-03-21 07:22:08 <ArtForz> compared to GPUs, way too much
1152 2011-03-21 07:22:12 <[Tycho]> Why no photos ? :)
1153 2011-03-21 07:24:34 <euclid> Are you the only one with this approach ?
1154 2011-03-21 07:24:41 <euclid> currently
1155 2011-03-21 07:24:42 <ArtForz> dunno, so far looks like it
1156 2011-03-21 07:25:14 <lfm> Art is the only one talking about it, if there are more
1157 2011-03-21 07:25:41 <euclid> How many people at any given time would you say are mining?
1158 2011-03-21 07:25:49 <genjix> over 9000
1159 2011-03-21 07:25:53 <ArtForz> 42
1160 2011-03-21 07:25:54 <ArtForz> iirc I was also the first guy with a GPU farm
1161 2011-03-21 07:26:02 JohnnyFusion has joined
1162 2011-03-21 07:26:12 <euclid> lol
1163 2011-03-21 07:26:35 <euclid> the answer to life and how many penises i have
1164 2011-03-21 07:27:37 <euclid> you guys ever hear of reprap?
1165 2011-03-21 07:27:43 <ArtForz> yeah
1166 2011-03-21 07:27:49 <euclid> into it?
1167 2011-03-21 07:27:53 <ArtForz> nah
1168 2011-03-21 07:28:26 <genjix> is that good?
1169 2011-03-21 07:28:44 <genjix> seems to me like a big gluegun
1170 2011-03-21 07:28:46 <euclid> I want to try building one, think people would dig a store that sold parts that accepted bitcoin
1171 2011-03-21 07:28:54 <ArtForz> imo plastic extrusion = toy
1172 2011-03-21 07:28:57 <genjix> how do they protect against deformation?
1173 2011-03-21 07:29:04 <euclid> heated bed
1174 2011-03-21 07:29:42 <genjix> ?
1175 2011-03-21 07:29:53 akem has joined
1176 2011-03-21 07:29:56 <genjix> so what happens if i try to manufacture princess leia?
1177 2011-03-21 07:29:58 akem has quit (Changing host)
1178 2011-03-21 07:29:58 akem has joined
1179 2011-03-21 07:30:08 <lfm> lucas sues ya
1180 2011-03-21 07:30:10 <ArtForz> wake me when theres affordable metal sintering solutions, meanwhile I'll stick with substractive manufacturing
1181 2011-03-21 07:30:15 <genjix> will she deform under her own weight?
1182 2011-03-21 07:30:25 JohnnyFusion has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1183 2011-03-21 07:31:18 <genjix> euclid: im sure loads of people would love to buy model figurines
1184 2011-03-21 07:31:26 <genjix> custom design in bitcoins
1185 2011-03-21 07:31:30 <euclid> shit I should be doing HW right now
1186 2011-03-21 07:31:32 <genjix> and it's something i want to do
1187 2011-03-21 07:31:38 <genjix> since i'm a 3d artist
1188 2011-03-21 07:32:19 <lfm> make your own designs then, don't use princess Lia
1189 2011-03-21 07:32:35 <genjix> princess leia was an example
1190 2011-03-21 07:32:54 <genjix> but i dont think the rep rap is able to manufacture models of that quality
1191 2011-03-21 07:33:15 <euclid> The 3rd dimension was a fairly recent invention
1192 2011-03-21 07:33:15 <euclid> http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-physicists-dimensions-universe.html
1193 2011-03-21 07:34:04 larsivi has joined
1194 2011-03-21 07:34:14 <lfm> genjix: well unless you enjoy being in courtrooms, you should prolly avoid copyright infringment
1195 2011-03-21 07:34:17 * genjix is running out of passwords to use everywhere
1196 2011-03-21 07:34:34 <euclid> hunter2
1197 2011-03-21 07:34:43 <genjix> old joke
1198 2011-03-21 07:34:48 <genjix> seen that here 5 times already
1199 2011-03-21 07:34:49 <euclid> new to me
1200 2011-03-21 07:35:02 dust1 has joined
1201 2011-03-21 07:36:10 <ArtForz> genjix: genpasswd to the rescue ;)
1202 2011-03-21 07:36:56 <JFK911> passwords?
1203 2011-03-21 07:37:06 <JFK911> bitcoin addresses happen to make excellent passwords
1204 2011-03-21 07:37:18 <ArtForz> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-unix-generating-passwords-command/
1205 2011-03-21 07:37:21 tarutaru has joined
1206 2011-03-21 07:37:27 <genjix> cool thanks
1207 2011-03-21 07:38:27 <Mango-chan> USA developed a plane that flies at the speed of sound and cannot be detected by a radars. Indian scientists developed a paint which, when applied on, absorbs sonar signals from the radars and permits invisibility. The US technology cost billions to develop while the Indian techonology took just 1 million ruppees. India master race.
1208 2011-03-21 07:39:41 <genjix> billions that could be spent on going to mars? :)
1209 2011-03-21 07:42:10 <genjix> how can I run 2 bitcoin instances on the same host?
1210 2011-03-21 07:42:18 <genjix> and not have them interfere?
1211 2011-03-21 07:42:29 <genjix> 1) select different data dir
1212 2011-03-21 07:42:31 <JFK911> use vmware
1213 2011-03-21 07:42:38 <JFK911> i mean hypoer v
1214 2011-03-21 07:42:40 <genjix> 2) different port for rpc
1215 2011-03-21 07:43:05 <lfm> you dont need rpc port
1216 2011-03-21 07:43:21 <genjix> if i run 2 instances, i do
1217 2011-03-21 07:44:03 <Netsniper> thats why we need socialism, so everything costs nothing
1218 2011-03-21 07:44:18 <theymos> genjix: One of them needs to run with -nolisten. -nolisten is new -- it might not be in the current release.
1219 2011-03-21 07:44:27 <lfm> you have external miners on both?
1220 2011-03-21 07:44:41 <genjix> theymos: but what if i want rpc on both of them?
1221 2011-03-21 07:45:01 <genjix> -nolisten          Don't accept connections from outside
1222 2011-03-21 07:45:17 <theymos> genjix: That's just on 8333. I'm pretty sure it will still accept RPC connections.
1223 2011-03-21 07:45:43 <lfm> ya the outgoin connects are still fine including irc
1224 2011-03-21 07:46:19 <genjix> theymos: nolisten just removes the check where it sees whether it's already running on another port, right?
1225 2011-03-21 07:46:29 <lfm> genjix: you dont need rpc at all tho if you gave gui and no -server
1226 2011-03-21 07:46:50 <genjix> wouldn't it just be sufficient to supply another port for rpc?
1227 2011-03-21 07:46:54 <theymos> genjix: It also doesn't accept incoming connections on 8333.
1228 2011-03-21 07:47:21 <genjix> you mean 8332
1229 2011-03-21 07:47:21 wolfspraul has joined
1230 2011-03-21 07:47:42 <theymos> No. 8333 -- the Bitcoin P2P port. Both instances can't listen on the same port.
1231 2011-03-21 07:47:48 <genjix> ah ok
1232 2011-03-21 07:49:22 <genjix> that's a problem though isn't it?
1233 2011-03-21 07:49:38 <genjix> because now the client has no connection to the network.
1234 2011-03-21 07:49:55 <theymos> It still makes outgoing connections.
1235 2011-03-21 07:50:05 <genjix> ok
1236 2011-03-21 07:50:09 <lfm> it still has outgoing connects, like nodes behind firewalls
1237 2011-03-21 07:50:15 <MagicalTux> [15:54:36] <genjix> how comes you don't have this by default? <- the guy who did kalyhost sucks
1238 2011-03-21 07:50:29 <genjix> so is DefaultPort used for pushing changes to the network?
1239 2011-03-21 07:50:33 <genjix> i.e for other nodes?
1240 2011-03-21 07:50:38 <theymos> You should really -connect to the other local instance, though.
1241 2011-03-21 07:50:45 <genjix> ok
1242 2011-03-21 07:51:06 <genjix> ahh i see
1243 2011-03-21 07:51:16 <theymos> What is "DefaultPort"?
1244 2011-03-21 07:51:16 <genjix> so i chain the instances all together.
1245 2011-03-21 07:51:25 <genjix> DefaultPort = 8333
1246 2011-03-21 07:51:40 <theymos> 8333 is used for the TCP network between nodes.
1247 2011-03-21 07:51:43 <lfm> genjix: not chain really, star
1248 2011-03-21 07:52:25 <genjix> if I have 3 nodes, then A is master, B connects to A, C connects to B. Isn't that a chain?
1249 2011-03-21 07:52:33 dust2 has joined
1250 2011-03-21 07:52:34 dust2 has quit (Client Quit)
1251 2011-03-21 07:52:34 <genjix> A <- B <- C
1252 2011-03-21 07:52:36 <theymos> They should all connect to A.
1253 2011-03-21 07:52:45 <genjix> aha right.
1254 2011-03-21 07:52:53 <lfm> genjix: that wont work, you have to have b and c both connect to a
1255 2011-03-21 07:53:13 <genjix> maybe bitcoind should have an option for prefixes based on username or something.
1256 2011-03-21 07:53:26 <lfm> huh/
1257 2011-03-21 07:53:56 <genjix> i mean a user profile management system
1258 2011-03-21 07:54:31 <genjix> actually staring them like this is fine.
1259 2011-03-21 07:54:46 <lfm> oh you want different users to have different biycoin on the same machine?
1260 2011-03-21 07:54:50 <genjix> yeah
1261 2011-03-21 07:54:52 dust1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1262 2011-03-21 07:55:15 <lfm> genjix: just makle them run one at a time
1263 2011-03-21 07:55:29 <theymos> That's going to use a lot of memory.
1264 2011-03-21 07:56:43 <theymos> Has anyone tried WalletBuddy? It looks interesting, but I don't feel like testing it. http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3735.0
1265 2011-03-21 07:57:51 <genjix> :)
1266 2011-03-21 07:57:58 <genjix> just use gpg
1267 2011-03-21 07:58:02 <genjix> easy as pie.
1268 2011-03-21 07:58:10 <JFK911> WalletBuddy?  is that like BonzaiBuddy?
1269 2011-03-21 08:00:55 <genjix> also is there any sense of privilege?
1270 2011-03-21 08:01:02 <genjix> actually nvm
1271 2011-03-21 08:01:08 <lfm> sounds like that tojan a while back
1272 2011-03-21 08:02:03 <lfm> trojan
1273 2011-03-21 08:02:11 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1274 2011-03-21 08:02:14 <genjix> it's written in .NET
1275 2011-03-21 08:02:27 AAA_awright has joined
1276 2011-03-21 08:03:47 <genjix> code *seems* legit
1277 2011-03-21 08:04:02 <genjix> needs more review though
1278 2011-03-21 08:04:21 <JFK911> taking apart .net is easier than de"compiling" java
1279 2011-03-21 08:04:39 <genjix> it has tonal support luke-jr
1280 2011-03-21 08:05:03 <genjix> wtf is NumericDisplayType.ScientificSatoshis
1281 2011-03-21 08:05:45 <dissipate> haha
1282 2011-03-21 08:05:59 <lfm> is that that encoded target 32 bit format?
1283 2011-03-21 08:06:56 <lfm> the NBits field in the blobk header
1284 2011-03-21 08:07:05 <lfm> block
1285 2011-03-21 08:10:02 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1286 2011-03-21 08:10:31 purpleposeidon has joined
1287 2011-03-21 08:24:16 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1288 2011-03-21 08:25:08 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1289 2011-03-21 08:28:25 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1290 2011-03-21 08:29:04 da2ce7 has joined
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1295 2011-03-21 08:44:34 <jgarzik> cpuminer v0.8 released
1296 2011-03-21 08:44:38 <jgarzik> with long-polling support
1297 2011-03-21 08:44:53 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.msg68934#msg68934
1298 2011-03-21 08:45:45 <[Tycho]> Hello, jgarzik.
1299 2011-03-21 08:46:05 <jgarzik> Hello, [Tycho].
1300 2011-03-21 08:47:53 sgornick has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1301 2011-03-21 08:48:15 sgornick has joined
1302 2011-03-21 08:57:39 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, are you sure it's working ? If it does, i'll tell my users to upgrade.
1303 2011-03-21 08:59:58 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1304 2011-03-21 09:01:01 rli has joined
1305 2011-03-21 09:02:11 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1306 2011-03-21 09:05:11 nathan7 has joined
1307 2011-03-21 09:05:52 euclid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1308 2011-03-21 09:06:08 xelister has joined
1309 2011-03-21 09:06:34 <[Tycho]> At this moment someone tries to request long polling channel on wrong port.
1310 2011-03-21 09:07:11 <[Tycho]> Oh, it's not it :)
1311 2011-03-21 09:08:42 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1312 2011-03-21 09:08:52 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1313 2011-03-21 09:09:27 amiller has joined
1314 2011-03-21 09:09:28 echelon has joined
1315 2011-03-21 09:10:05 FreeBanking has joined
1316 2011-03-21 09:18:34 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1317 2011-03-21 09:19:26 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 170000
1318 2011-03-21 09:19:28 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 170000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 2.24415163496 BTC per day and 0.0935063181234 BTC per hour.
1319 2011-03-21 09:21:27 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,calc 170000
1320 2011-03-21 09:21:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 170000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 43 minutes, and 23 seconds
1321 2011-03-21 09:22:46 FreeBanking has left ()
1322 2011-03-21 09:28:22 Liru has joined
1323 2011-03-21 09:32:38 <tcatm> [Tycho]: does your pool use sendmany?
1324 2011-03-21 09:39:14 <xelister> 5 BTC for someone to read a description of ant-based-clustering-and-classification , and explain me how exactly this is supposed to work in few summary sentences / answers so I can implement it
1325 2011-03-21 09:39:16 noagendamarket has joined
1326 2011-03-21 09:40:19 <ZenMondo> implement it to do what?
1327 2011-03-21 09:40:46 <xelister> ZenMondo: to make some usefull example with classification
1328 2011-03-21 09:41:12 <xelister> like... you train with N samples, that have few attributes and are known to belong to class C
1329 2011-03-21 09:41:28 <xelister> and later we show new samples with attributes and then computer guesses their class
1330 2011-03-21 09:41:46 <xelister> I understand that sort-of you are making the ants to stack simmilar objects in stacks
1331 2011-03-21 09:41:52 <ZenMondo> is this pure academics or is there a practical application?
1332 2011-03-21 09:42:05 <xelister> academics, but I want any example to actually work
1333 2011-03-21 09:42:28 <xelister> so far I got:  so the ants move objects around finally place them into stacks   and basically we then can say, using known data, that given stack is of class X.   and later if we have more samples and we move them into given stack of class X then we assume it is also of class X ?
1334 2011-03-21 09:43:22 <xelister> and I want someone to look over PDFs to understand this problem and later summarize the algo and answer some questions enough so Im know how it all supposed to work if done "by hand".  It should be done during today overall
1335 2011-03-21 09:44:36 <xelister> e.g. PDF: arxiv4.library.cornell.edu/pdf/cs/0412068
1336 2011-03-21 09:49:21 slush2 has joined
1337 2011-03-21 09:49:37 <ZenMondo> well on that one the pertinent stuff is on page 4 basically use some randomness find something move it to where you want it to, and leave a trail that can be followed by other agents which dissipates over time  (but see if another agent follows it, they will reinforce the trail) till we have some good paths and clusters (or stacks as you called them)
1338 2011-03-21 09:50:08 <ZenMondo> at least thats what I get from skimming it
1339 2011-03-21 09:53:06 <[Tycho]> tcatm, no. Is sendmany already accepted by others ?
1340 2011-03-21 09:53:30 <da2ce7> hey ppl's of the bitcoin world!
1341 2011-03-21 09:54:25 <tcatm> [Tycho]: nope, but you have enough mining power to confirm them with your pool
1342 2011-03-21 09:54:54 <[Tycho]> I would prefer to wait for others.
1343 2011-03-21 09:57:48 <da2ce7> Tycho, what is this 'send many' you are talking about?
1344 2011-03-21 09:58:34 <ArtForz> single transaction with many outputs
1345 2011-03-21 09:58:39 <[Tycho]> Transaction with multiple outputs to different people.
1346 2011-03-21 09:58:54 <da2ce7> ArtForz, isn't that valid anyway?
1347 2011-03-21 09:59:06 <ArtForz> well, it doesnt pass older clients isStandard()
1348 2011-03-21 09:59:21 <ArtForz> so they refuse to pass it on standalone, perfecly valid in a block though
1349 2011-03-21 10:00:12 <da2ce7> so there is no issue, just put it into the blocks that you mine yourself.
1350 2011-03-21 10:00:18 <ArtForz> yup
1351 2011-03-21 10:00:33 <ArtForz> I *think* slushs pool already accepts them, not sure though
1352 2011-03-21 10:01:30 <slush2> ArtForz: I tried to upgrade bitcoind to version with sendmany
1353 2011-03-21 10:01:46 <slush2> ArtForz: But after starting bitcoind, I see <defunct> in ps aux
1354 2011-03-21 10:02:00 <slush2> not sure if it is related to 'daemon' mode in the new version...
1355 2011-03-21 10:02:05 <ArtForz> huh, weird
1356 2011-03-21 10:02:05 <slush2> but does not look healthy
1357 2011-03-21 10:02:17 <ArtForz> anything in debug.log?
1358 2011-03-21 10:02:20 <slush2> no
1359 2011-03-21 10:02:25 <slush2> actually everything works
1360 2011-03-21 10:02:29 <ArtForz> I think the way it forks got changed
1361 2011-03-21 10:02:30 <slush2> p2p layer, rpc layer
1362 2011-03-21 10:02:34 <slush2> but it looks weird
1363 2011-03-21 10:02:51 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1364 2011-03-21 10:02:52 <ArtForz> so I guess now the parent process hangs around as a zombie...
1365 2011-03-21 10:03:06 rli has joined
1366 2011-03-21 10:05:18 <slush2> can it hurt something?
1367 2011-03-21 10:05:39 <slush2> I mean - it is expected? I don't think so, looks like bug
1368 2011-03-21 10:05:42 <ArtForz> sec, checking
1369 2011-03-21 10:09:01 <ArtForz> and it doesnt print anything unusual?
1370 2011-03-21 10:09:12 <slush2> I didn't see anything
1371 2011-03-21 10:09:42 <ArtForz> is the defunct bitcoind the parent of the running one?
1372 2011-03-21 10:10:11 <slush2> marekp   21674  4.6  0.0      0     0 pts/12   Zl   11:08   0:01 [bitcoind] <defunct>
1373 2011-03-21 10:10:15 <ArtForz> ps faux shows hierarchy
1374 2011-03-21 10:10:48 <TD> slush2: it's not harmful to anything
1375 2011-03-21 10:10:56 <TD> zombies just take up a slot in the process table, but those are cheap.
1376 2011-03-21 10:10:59 <ArtForz> nope, shouldnt harm anything
1377 2011-03-21 10:11:15 <ArtForz> it should get cleaned up when the forked bitcoind exits
1378 2011-03-21 10:11:48 <tcatm> I tried to move the fork() to AppInit2(). for some reason init.cpp:81 pthread_exit() is needed or it'll throw an exception. This should probably be return 0;
1379 2011-03-21 10:12:15 <slush2> bitcoind has no subprocesses, but (probably) few threads - I see them in htop
1380 2011-03-21 10:12:23 <ArtForz> yeah, my guess is there's something magic done in a constructor/destructor somewhere
1381 2011-03-21 10:12:51 <ArtForz> we used to do the fork directly in main()
1382 2011-03-21 10:14:20 <overtorque> gross. nerd talk.
1383 2011-03-21 10:15:04 <ArtForz> or because we don't double-fork
1384 2011-03-21 10:15:28 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 2000000
1385 2011-03-21 10:15:30 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 26.4017839407 BTC per day and 1.10007433086 BTC per hour.
1386 2011-03-21 10:15:35 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,calc 2000000
1387 2011-03-21 10:15:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 day, 21 hours, 27 minutes, and 5 seconds
1388 2011-03-21 10:16:29 <ArtForz> btw, why are we implementing our own forking when there's daemon() ?
1389 2011-03-21 10:16:47 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 400000
1390 2011-03-21 10:16:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 15 minutes, and 26 seconds
1391 2011-03-21 10:17:08 <JFK911> i shut the machine down friday because of heat.  turned it on again saturday night, and got 2 blocks w/in 24 hours
1392 2011-03-21 10:17:16 <JFK911> i think i should shut it down again ahahaha
1393 2011-03-21 10:17:44 <slush2> ArtForz: so I should not panic, right?
1394 2011-03-21 10:17:52 <slush2> ArtForz: it's ok then
1395 2011-03-21 10:18:25 <ArtForz> yeah
1396 2011-03-21 10:18:37 <ArtForz> it doesnt harm anything
1397 2011-03-21 10:18:39 <tcatm> ArtForz: what's the correct way to fork? I think the original forking code is still from satoshi.
1398 2011-03-21 10:19:37 <ArtForz> iirc GP forks P, P forks C and exit()s, GP wait()s for P, exit()s
1399 2011-03-21 10:20:02 <ArtForz> that way C is orphaned and init wait()s for it
1400 2011-03-21 10:21:22 <ArtForz> ahhh... we don't setsid()
1401 2011-03-21 10:21:54 <ArtForz> so the child is still attached to the session of the parent
1402 2011-03-21 10:22:02 <ArtForz> yep, that leaves a zombie
1403 2011-03-21 10:24:43 wolfspraul has joined
1404 2011-03-21 10:24:54 <ArtForz> yeah, adding a setsid() should be enough
1405 2011-03-21 10:28:43 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
1406 2011-03-21 10:28:44 <gribble> 114387
1407 2011-03-21 10:29:12 rli has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1408 2011-03-21 10:29:18 slush2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1409 2011-03-21 10:32:00 <tcatm> both daemon(0, 0) and fork() + setsid() leave a defunct bitcoind
1410 2011-03-21 10:32:07 <ArtForz> really?
1411 2011-03-21 10:32:13 <tcatm> yep
1412 2011-03-21 10:32:21 <ArtForz> thats weird as hell
1413 2011-03-21 10:34:54 <ArtForz> yep, you're right
1414 2011-03-21 10:36:10 rli has joined
1415 2011-03-21 10:36:10 rli has left ()
1416 2011-03-21 10:38:42 <da2ce7> reinforcements!  http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1663664&p=-1#bottom
1417 2011-03-21 10:40:43 <noagendamarket> meanwhileinaus is me :)
1418 2011-03-21 10:43:55 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
1419 2011-03-21 10:45:39 <ArtForz> hmmm, yeah... for some reason the *child* hangs around as defunct ?!?
1420 2011-03-21 10:46:04 <ArtForz> and the child is still attached to the controlling terminal
1421 2011-03-21 10:48:35 * Kiba wakes up
1422 2011-03-21 10:48:36 <tcatm> child as defunct would make sense when bitcoins spawns a thread for everything and does nothing in the main thrad
1423 2011-03-21 10:48:37 <Kiba> wee
1424 2011-03-21 10:48:41 <Kiba> very short sleep cycle
1425 2011-03-21 10:49:23 <tcatm> Oh I think I know what's happening
1426 2011-03-21 10:49:53 slush2 has joined
1427 2011-03-21 10:50:01 <ArtForz> yeah
1428 2011-03-21 10:50:04 <ArtForz> mai nthread exits
1429 2011-03-21 10:50:05 <tcatm> When running in daemon mode without GUI AppInit2() returns true
1430 2011-03-21 10:51:48 <ArtForz> yep
1431 2011-03-21 10:51:56 <eps1> anyone know how far the bitdns project is?
1432 2011-03-21 10:52:04 <eps1> are people actively working on it?
1433 2011-03-21 10:53:00 <Liru> ;;bc,calc 46000
1434 2011-03-21 10:53:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 11 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes, and 3 seconds
1435 2011-03-21 10:53:28 <tcatm> if (fDaemon) while (!fShutdown) sleep(100000); should fix it
1436 2011-03-21 10:54:40 <ArtForz> yep
1437 2011-03-21 10:56:19 <tcatm> should we call Shutdown(NULL); after that loop?
1438 2011-03-21 10:57:28 <Kiba> eps1: hmm, I don't think anybody seriously worked on it
1439 2011-03-21 10:57:42 <eps1> shame
1440 2011-03-21 10:58:37 <ArtForz> hrrrm... shouldnt matter
1441 2011-03-21 10:58:37 <afed> ;;bc,stats
1442 2011-03-21 10:58:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114391 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 520 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67016.73912025
1443 2011-03-21 10:59:04 <ArtForz> to exit that loop *someone* called Shutdown() already
1444 2011-03-21 11:00:06 <ArtForz> now we arent defunct anymore, but we still sit around with a controlling tty attached to a daemon process...
1445 2011-03-21 11:01:26 <tcatm> daemon(0, 0) fixes that
1446 2011-03-21 11:01:31 <ArtForz> or using setsid() in child
1447 2011-03-21 11:01:33 <flok> daemon(-1, -1)
1448 2011-03-21 11:02:27 <ArtForz> daemon() is BSD/linux
1449 2011-03-21 11:02:34 <ArtForz> setsid() is posix
1450 2011-03-21 11:03:57 <ArtForz> daemon(-1, -1) is the safer choice, I'm not sure if we want to chdir("/") and/or close stdin/out/err
1451 2011-03-21 11:05:10 <sneak> hi
1452 2011-03-21 11:05:21 <sneak> http://www.techworld.com.au/article/380396/google_releases_open_source_bitcoin_client/
1453 2011-03-21 11:05:25 <sneak> this is ggggggreat news!
1454 2011-03-21 11:05:44 <sneak> i had been worried about the There's Only One Implementation problem
1455 2011-03-21 11:06:04 <noagendamarket> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1663664&p=-1&#bottom   sneak this guy doesnt think so...
1456 2011-03-21 11:06:05 <ArtForz> news? more like olds...
1457 2011-03-21 11:06:20 <noagendamarket> yeah it is old news
1458 2011-03-21 11:06:38 <noagendamarket> it went nuts on twitter today for some reason
1459 2011-03-21 11:06:46 <tcatm> and somewhat wrong. bitcoinj isn't a full client, just a library
1460 2011-03-21 11:07:16 <noagendamarket> yeah
1461 2011-03-21 11:07:18 <tcatm> ArtForz: http://pastebin.com/8gh5940W that's what I changed so far
1462 2011-03-21 11:07:25 <afed> ;;bc,calc 400000
1463 2011-03-21 11:07:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 15 minutes, and 26 seconds
1464 2011-03-21 11:07:51 <ArtForz> thats exactly identical to mine, except I do a Sleep(5000)
1465 2011-03-21 11:07:52 <sneak> yeah, i just saw it
1466 2011-03-21 11:07:56 <noagendamarket> tcatm its difficult to combat a twitter storm though :)
1467 2011-03-21 11:08:06 <sneak> is there a bitcoin-announce or something?
1468 2011-03-21 11:08:53 <noagendamarket> does someone want to write up a post as to why its wrong ?
1469 2011-03-21 11:10:47 <afed> ;;bc,gen
1470 2011-03-21 11:10:47 <gribble> (bc,gen <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
1471 2011-03-21 11:10:54 <afed> ;;bc,gen 400000
1472 2011-03-21 11:11:16 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5.28035678815 BTC per day and 0.220014866173 BTC per hour.
1473 2011-03-21 11:14:42 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm master * r1c09a4a / init.cpp : daemon-mode: add sleep() loop to prevent defunct child process, call setsid() in child - http://bit.ly/ezz67f
1474 2011-03-21 11:20:45 <sneak> difficulty looks like it might be dropping?!
1475 2011-03-21 11:20:52 <sneak> is that accurate?
1476 2011-03-21 11:20:54 <ArtForz> yup
1477 2011-03-21 11:21:03 <sneak> ArtForz: i assume you haven't received your asics yet ;)
1478 2011-03-21 11:21:16 <ArtForz> sure did
1479 2011-03-21 11:21:30 <sneak> are they running?  what's your hash rate increase?
1480 2011-03-21 11:21:36 <sneak> percentage-wise
1481 2011-03-21 11:21:44 <ArtForz> totalling 38.7Gh/s now
1482 2011-03-21 11:21:53 <ArtForz> another 19.2Gh/s of ASICs ordered
1483 2011-03-21 11:21:54 <sneak> what was it before?
1484 2011-03-21 11:21:56 <sneak> haha
1485 2011-03-21 11:22:00 <ArtForz> 24.something
1486 2011-03-21 11:22:08 <ArtForz> shut down my lesser GPUs
1487 2011-03-21 11:23:40 <sneak> $0.264/hour?
1488 2011-03-21 11:23:50 <sneak> @ 0.741usd/btc?
1489 2011-03-21 11:23:55 <sneak> err, not /hour, /minute
1490 2011-03-21 11:23:56 <sneak> sorry
1491 2011-03-21 11:24:17 <sneak> ca $380/day?
1492 2011-03-21 11:24:29 <ArtForz> yup
1493 2011-03-21 11:24:52 <sneak> not a bad setup, that
1494 2011-03-21 11:25:05 <Kiba> somebody said "bitcoin is the most retarded idea I ever heard"
1495 2011-03-21 11:25:06 <Kiba> lol
1496 2011-03-21 11:25:10 <sneak> so is gold as currency
1497 2011-03-21 11:25:12 <ArtForz> next 20Ghps are a lot cheaper, about $25k
1498 2011-03-21 11:25:14 <sneak> but it's what we've got
1499 2011-03-21 11:25:15 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1500 2011-03-21 11:25:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114397 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 514 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 39 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67179.21791903
1501 2011-03-21 11:25:29 <sneak> ArtForz: because the initial fab costs for the asic are paid for?
1502 2011-03-21 11:25:32 <ArtForz> yup
1503 2011-03-21 11:26:02 <sneak> are you selling them, or is this Confidential and Proprietary ArtForz Retirement Fund secret?
1504 2011-03-21 11:26:09 <ArtForz> I'm still ways away from making that back, but I never expected any different
1505 2011-03-21 11:26:10 <Kiba> ArtForz: will I be able to expect GPUs of your to appears on the bitcoin market?
1506 2011-03-21 11:26:53 <sneak> you could probably supplement your mining income by selling them at a fat profit, like 10 to a pci card, to other miners
1507 2011-03-21 11:27:13 <sneak> sell the cards for like $10k or something
1508 2011-03-21 11:27:22 <sneak> i bet some people would buy them
1509 2011-03-21 11:27:44 <ArtForz> hrrrm
1510 2011-03-21 11:27:49 <lfm> I suspect every new idea for money ever introduced has had someone call it the stupidest idea ever. Just generally moeny is considered a stupid idea
1511 2011-03-21 11:28:00 <Blitzboom> lfm: very true
1512 2011-03-21 11:28:15 <Kiba> why is money considered stupid?
1513 2011-03-21 11:28:33 <ArtForz> sneak: problem is, they're damn expensive compared to GPUs even at-cost, zero FCC/CE certification, and I *really* dont want to deal with support
1514 2011-03-21 11:28:42 <sneak> because trade is integral to post-agricultural society, and it's a major change to the status quo when you change the method of trade
1515 2011-03-21 11:28:58 <lfm> its treating a symbol for value as something of value in itself. that just seems stipid to some people
1516 2011-03-21 11:29:15 <Kiba> I don't understand
1517 2011-03-21 11:29:24 <sneak> ArtForz: you could sell them no support, you're on your own, and you don't need fcc/ce certification to sell to private parties, and the people who would be buying them would know the benefits (i.e. the reduced watt/hash ratio)
1518 2011-03-21 11:29:37 <sneak> Kiba: ok, example
1519 2011-03-21 11:29:54 <sneak> germany is just now switching from cash to electronic payments for a lot of retail operations
1520 2011-03-21 11:30:04 <sneak> in america, you can exist without ever touching cash for any reason now
1521 2011-03-21 11:30:08 <sneak> just use a debit card for *
1522 2011-03-21 11:30:12 <sneak> you can use it to buy gum at the corner store
1523 2011-03-21 11:30:37 <sneak> when you change the basic method of payment/trade, you will meet resistance because people are uncertain about big changes
1524 2011-03-21 11:30:48 <sneak> and the means of trade is something that every human does, if they want to eat
1525 2011-03-21 11:30:51 <ArtForz> well, I guess I *could* declare them as components/modules, no need for cert then
1526 2011-03-21 11:31:34 <sneak> so, naturally, when you have a new way of paying for stuff, people are going to be uncertain, because it's something that could potentially affect everyone, and the system, for most people, works fine now
1527 2011-03-21 11:31:46 <sneak> gold and silver coins worked great for years.
1528 2011-03-21 11:31:52 <sneak> paper money worked great for years
1529 2011-03-21 11:31:59 <sneak> debit cards and plastic and wire transfers have worked great for years
1530 2011-03-21 11:32:02 <sneak> bitcoin will work great for years
1531 2011-03-21 11:32:21 <sneak> but at each step, people ask "why?" because the previous system is working (or people wouldn't be eating, because you gotta buy food)
1532 2011-03-21 11:32:41 * [Tycho] don't wants to use plastic cards :)
1533 2011-03-21 11:32:53 <sneak> it's changing out a giant rug on the floor in a crowded room full of drunk people
1534 2011-03-21 11:33:04 <sneak> it's something that affects everyone on some level
1535 2011-03-21 11:33:06 <ArtForz> I have to redesign the modules anyways as I have pretty severe signal integrity issues, might as well change layout so it's actually assemblable (hey, thats not a word) with automated pick&place equipment
1536 2011-03-21 11:33:20 <sneak> assembleable
1537 2011-03-21 11:33:22 <sneak> it is now
1538 2011-03-21 11:34:15 <[Tycho]> Automated pick&place equipment sound menancing.
1539 2011-03-21 11:34:32 <lfm> [Tycho]: ya they look manacing too
1540 2011-03-21 11:34:57 <sneak> [Tycho]: i got a drink delivery the other day for the first time since living here (it's common where i live now but not where i'm from)
1541 2011-03-21 11:35:02 <[Tycho]> No, i mean - looks like he wants to create hundreds and 1000s of those mining things.
1542 2011-03-21 11:35:11 <sneak> and the guy had a dolly cart loaded up with a few hundred kg of drinks and glass bottles and plastic crates
1543 2011-03-21 11:35:19 <sneak> and it had a mechanism, powered, to lift it up each stair
1544 2011-03-21 11:35:30 <sneak> it sounded like the borg were coming up my staircase and eating everything on the way
1545 2011-03-21 11:35:54 <sneak> alien robots on the way to eat my brains
1546 2011-03-21 11:35:57 <lfm> dirnk? booze?
1547 2011-03-21 11:36:00 <[Tycho]> :)
1548 2011-03-21 11:36:09 <sneak> still water, coca cola, apple juice
1549 2011-03-21 11:36:15 <ArtForz> [Tycho]: well, 200Gh/s = 1k ASICs = 125 modules = 31 1/4 2Us
1550 2011-03-21 11:36:16 <sneak> i got like 12 cases of shit
1551 2011-03-21 11:36:57 <ArtForz> and thats not even half of the current network
1552 2011-03-21 11:37:03 <sneak> bottle deposit is $0.35 here
1553 2011-03-21 11:37:21 <sneak> so it pays to buy stuff by the case and then just put the empties back in and trade it to the drink delivery service when you reorder
1554 2011-03-21 11:37:26 <sneak> taking them back to the store is a huge pain in the ass
1555 2011-03-21 11:37:29 <[Tycho]> So that's a new MM coming to destroy bitcoin economy :)
1556 2011-03-21 11:37:51 <sneak> ArtForz: do you have pictures up of the modules or the enclosures?
1557 2011-03-21 11:37:52 <ArtForz> with my hobby setup, assembing one module/day is easy, 2/day is starting to get annoying
1558 2011-03-21 11:37:58 <ArtForz> sneak: no
1559 2011-03-21 11:38:06 <lfm> [Tycho]: when the difficulty drops ya
1560 2011-03-21 11:38:08 <sneak> intentionally, or jut not around to it yet?
1561 2011-03-21 11:38:14 <sneak> i would love to see 'em
1562 2011-03-21 11:38:17 <ArtForz> yes
1563 2011-03-21 11:38:21 <[Tycho]> me too.
1564 2011-03-21 11:38:24 <ArtForz> well, a bit of both
1565 2011-03-21 11:38:33 <sneak> i drool over the copocabana and deep crack
1566 2011-03-21 11:38:46 <ArtForz> imo copacobana = fail
1567 2011-03-21 11:38:52 <[Tycho]> I don't think that someone will steal masks that way :)
1568 2011-03-21 11:38:53 <sneak> it looks cool
1569 2011-03-21 11:39:06 <ArtForz> they only got away with not using heatsinks by using weak-ass FPGAs
1570 2011-03-21 11:39:30 <sneak> trade-off, i guess, because heatsinks would drop density substantially
1571 2011-03-21 11:39:44 <sneak> their DIMM-socket thing lets them just blow air over the whole mess, and put them just a few mm apart
1572 2011-03-21 11:39:54 <ArtForz> done right, they really don't
1573 2011-03-21 11:40:11 <sneak> says the guy assembling the modules by hand in his basement or living room :P
1574 2011-03-21 11:40:12 noot has quit (Quit: leaving)
1575 2011-03-21 11:40:21 <sneak> do yours need heatsinks?
1576 2011-03-21 11:40:28 <ArtForz> yup
1577 2011-03-21 11:40:34 MartianW has joined
1578 2011-03-21 11:40:48 <sneak> do you have one per asic, or does the board layout let you lay it across multiple?
1579 2011-03-21 11:40:56 <sneak> (pictures would eliminate these questions :P )
1580 2011-03-21 11:40:57 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
1581 2011-03-21 11:41:03 jroot has joined
1582 2011-03-21 11:41:06 <ArtForz> S771 1U CPU heatsink shared by 4 ASICs
1583 2011-03-21 11:41:28 <[Tycho]> I think that white metall-ceramics packaging would look cool.
1584 2011-03-21 11:41:31 <Kiba> I find witcoin addicting and profitable
1585 2011-03-21 11:42:16 <ArtForz> also, only 120 FTBGA-256 in a 2U = not *that* dense
1586 2011-03-21 11:42:20 <sneak> ooooh
1587 2011-03-21 11:42:45 <[Tycho]> Especially gold-coated on white :)
1588 2011-03-21 11:42:53 <UukGoblin> huh lots of pr0n there Kiba :-]
1589 2011-03-21 11:42:53 <sneak> cyperpunks mailing list talking about a browser plugin to compare the https cert you get from a site to that received by other nodes in a distributed p2p net to detect mitm
1590 2011-03-21 11:42:54 <ArtForz> you can put up to 8 of those under a 1U heatsink
1591 2011-03-21 11:43:20 <sneak> considering now that it's probable that unfriendly governments can issue their own certs considering number of CAs trusted by browsers
1592 2011-03-21 11:43:23 <ArtForz> 4-wide, 2-high = 64 per row
1593 2011-03-21 11:44:09 <sneak> have you considered just going maximum possible density, ohne heatsinks and dunking the whole thing in cooled and circulated mineral oil? :)
1594 2011-03-21 11:44:16 <sneak> that would be fun
1595 2011-03-21 11:44:17 <ArtForz> whats the point?
1596 2011-03-21 11:44:21 <sneak> higher density?
1597 2011-03-21 11:44:26 <sneak> easier to cool?
1598 2011-03-21 11:44:27 <[Tycho]> Oil is not funny.
1599 2011-03-21 11:44:34 <sneak> fun, not funny
1600 2011-03-21 11:44:41 <sneak> "that's my fishtank full of money printing machines!"
1601 2011-03-21 11:44:45 <ArtForz> I stayed at this low density on purpose
1602 2011-03-21 11:45:59 <ArtForz> I could pack all 96 ASICs into a single 2U, but then I'd have to use a expensive high-powered PSU instead of using standard cheap server stuff
1603 2011-03-21 11:46:43 <JFK911> offboard psu
1604 2011-03-21 11:46:55 <JFK911> c-64/fick-20 style
1605 2011-03-21 11:47:22 <ArtForz> ... that would kinda defeat the purpose of rackmount enclosures, no?
1606 2011-03-21 11:47:33 <lfm> even todays laptops use em
1607 2011-03-21 11:47:37 noot has joined
1608 2011-03-21 11:47:46 <JFK911> they can go on a shelf or be ziptied to the vertical rack members
1609 2011-03-21 11:47:49 noot has left ()
1610 2011-03-21 11:48:01 <ArtForz> well, I guess you could use a external 12V PSU and some welding cable...
1611 2011-03-21 11:48:19 <JFK911> you'd get maximum density for multiple units with a separate psu shelf anyway.
1612 2011-03-21 11:48:24 <ArtForz> 4 modules = 25A @ 12V
1613 2011-03-21 11:48:35 <[Tycho]> Copper bricks :)
1614 2011-03-21 11:48:44 <JFK911> 25a only needs something like 10awg
1615 2011-03-21 11:48:51 <JFK911> no idea what that is in mm^2
1616 2011-03-21 11:48:52 <ArtForz> run busbars along the height of the rack :P
1617 2011-03-21 11:49:06 <JFK911> well in telecom land we'd put a pdu/alarm unit and run smaller cables
1618 2011-03-21 11:49:21 <JFK911> and then supply each one of those with a large copper wire
1619 2011-03-21 11:49:25 <ArtForz> well, thats *per 2U* with my current setup
1620 2011-03-21 11:49:42 <JFK911> 10awg is still cheap and manageable
1621 2011-03-21 11:49:43 <ArtForz> going 3x that density really wouldnt be a problem
1622 2011-03-21 11:49:51 <[Tycho]> There is a chance that he knows what to do.
1623 2011-03-21 11:50:10 <JFK911> also those were 48v setups not 12v but that doesnt matter
1624 2011-03-21 11:50:14 <JFK911> i liked 48v psu for everything
1625 2011-03-21 11:50:17 <JFK911> routers, computers, servers
1626 2011-03-21 11:50:21 <JFK911> in addition to the telecom crap
1627 2011-03-21 11:50:48 <ArtForz> well, actually I'd be better off running 9.5-10V bus voltage
1628 2011-03-21 11:51:06 <ArtForz> thats where my POL converters are most efficient
1629 2011-03-21 11:51:08 <JFK911> what is Vcc
1630 2011-03-21 11:51:16 <ArtForz> 1.0V on the ASICs
1631 2011-03-21 11:52:01 akem has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1632 2011-03-21 11:52:13 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1633 2011-03-21 11:52:16 <ArtForz> using 2 60A POL converters on each module
1634 2011-03-21 11:52:45 <[Tycho]> "POL" ?
1635 2011-03-21 11:52:51 <ArtForz> Point Of Load
1636 2011-03-21 11:54:10 <JFK911> you could probably do something ingenenious to save copper like supplying higher voltage and arranging group of loads in series
1637 2011-03-21 11:55:13 <ArtForz> currently using ZY2160 converter modules
1638 2011-03-21 11:56:18 <JFK911> oh he supplies 60 amperes over his output voltage range?
1639 2011-03-21 11:56:35 <JFK911> cute
1640 2011-03-21 11:56:39 <lfm> now your getting it
1641 2011-03-21 11:58:06 <ArtForz> currently I run 12V to each module with 2*16AWG, locally stepping down to 1.0V core
1642 2011-03-21 11:59:01 akem has joined
1643 2011-03-21 11:59:01 akem has quit (Changing host)
1644 2011-03-21 11:59:01 akem has joined
1645 2011-03-21 11:59:11 <ArtForz> and at 1.0V and ~35A out, the converters would be *more* efficient with 9.6V instead of 12V input
1646 2011-03-21 11:59:27 <ArtForz> *30A out
1647 2011-03-21 12:02:30 <ArtForz> the copacobana guys used one central massive PSU = they had to pull stunts like reinforce their backplane with copper busbars to limit voltage drop
1648 2011-03-21 12:03:39 <ArtForz> oh, and copacobana is a 3U
1649 2011-03-21 12:03:45 <JFK911> if it was smart to send high currents around at low voltages we'd be plugging things into 3 volt wall sockets
1650 2011-03-21 12:03:56 <JFK911> but that doesnt work well for some reason
1651 2011-03-21 12:04:16 <ArtForz> well, it'd be pretty safe, just outlaw metal jewlery ;)
1652 2011-03-21 12:06:22 <lfm> is mmetal jewelry safer around normal ac circuits?
1653 2011-03-21 12:06:28 Bth8 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1654 2011-03-21 12:06:40 <ArtForz> well, at least you don't generally weld yourself to those ;)
1655 2011-03-21 12:09:09 <ArtForz> also, S3-1000 is *really* small compared to a modern FPGA
1656 2011-03-21 12:09:41 <ArtForz> somewhere between a spartan6 LX16 and a LX25
1657 2011-03-21 12:10:43 sabalaba has joined
1658 2011-03-21 12:12:40 slush1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1659 2011-03-21 12:14:18 B3rz3rk3r has joined
1660 2011-03-21 12:17:02 rli has joined
1661 2011-03-21 12:17:29 <ArtForz> S3-1000 = $31 @ 1000, S6-LX150 = $146 @ 120
1662 2011-03-21 12:18:21 <xelister> ZenMondo: would you like to read more into this all, especially,  how it works after initiall "training" phase...?  e.g. I get a new object with a set of parameters, and how do I classify it now? drop in randomly on grid and wait untill it lands in some stash or what??
1663 2011-03-21 12:18:29 <ArtForz> s6lx150 = about 8x the logic resources of a s3-1000, and they usually clock about 30% higher
1664 2011-03-21 12:18:49 BlueMatt has joined
1665 2011-03-21 12:19:03 <ArtForz> lowest cost/logic would be s6lx45
1666 2011-03-21 12:19:22 rli has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1667 2011-03-21 12:21:01 <ZenMondo> no you pick it up and look for a trail that says "I have object o follow me and deposit me in the pile at the end" if no trail is found start a new pile
1668 2011-03-21 12:21:27 BlueMatt has quit (Client Quit)
1669 2011-03-21 12:21:44 dust_ has joined
1670 2011-03-21 12:22:59 rli has joined
1671 2011-03-21 12:23:10 <ZenMondo> you ain't thinking like an ant. :)
1672 2011-03-21 12:23:30 dude has joined
1673 2011-03-21 12:23:56 <ZenMondo> http://xkcd.com/638/
1674 2011-03-21 12:25:06 <xelister> ZenMondo: but I do not know the class of new object, dont know which triall to follow...
1675 2011-03-21 12:26:14 <xelister> I know its attributes, and based on that I want to decide it's class, right?
1676 2011-03-21 12:26:40 <ZenMondo> but the ant will or at least you have to give the ant the ability to sense it so that when it carries it knows what information to code in its trail.
1677 2011-03-21 12:26:45 TheAncientGoat has joined
1678 2011-03-21 12:26:47 rauskimon has joined
1679 2011-03-21 12:27:42 <xelister> ZenMondo: say each object has 5 attributes
1680 2011-03-21 12:27:51 <ZenMondo> remember the phermone trails reinforce each other as they used repeatedly. Since it is a digital simulation, the trail contains information about the payload that is being carried.
1681 2011-03-21 12:28:01 <xelister> ZenMondo: so each ant leaves 5 types of fermons at once on each tile it travels?
1682 2011-03-21 12:28:18 <ZenMondo> or some hash of the attributes.
1683 2011-03-21 12:28:32 <xelister> hash? hashes don't add up well ;)
1684 2011-03-21 12:28:46 <ZenMondo> ok serialize it then
1685 2011-03-21 12:28:50 <xelister> e.g. if I carry object characterized as (5,2,2,1,2) then I add thoes values (5,2,2,1,2)/1000 for example to the current tile pheromones?
1686 2011-03-21 12:29:02 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1687 2011-03-21 12:30:51 <ZenMondo> well the trails convey information about what is being carried.  When carrying a payload (o) you look for trails with that information at the end of the trail is your stack.  There is some random numbers played in, but overtime payloads that are alike each other get sorted to each stack.
1688 2011-03-21 12:31:03 <rauskimon> my bitcoin keeps on crashing @ start :( EXPECTION: 11DbExpection db::open: invalid argument C\prog files\bitcoin\bitcoin.exe in AppInit()
1689 2011-03-21 12:31:57 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1690 2011-03-21 12:32:19 TheAncientGoat has joined
1691 2011-03-21 12:33:42 <lfm> rauskimon: how did you install it?
1692 2011-03-21 12:33:48 <rauskimon> normally
1693 2011-03-21 12:33:58 <lfm> what os  is it?
1694 2011-03-21 12:34:07 <rauskimon> windows 7
1695 2011-03-21 12:34:08 <rauskimon> it worked yesterday but not today =G
1696 2011-03-21 12:34:27 <lfm> was it C\ ... or C:\ ...?
1697 2011-03-21 12:35:47 <rauskimon> c:\
1698 2011-03-21 12:38:31 <Stellar> ;;bc,calc 100000
1699 2011-03-21 12:38:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5 weeks, 2 days, 21 hours, 1 minute, and 46 seconds
1700 2011-03-21 12:38:35 <lfm> if its a db error maybe something got shut down wrong. The .exe file name doent seem like it should be connected to a db error.
1701 2011-03-21 12:39:16 <rauskimon> yes but i uninstalled it already..
1702 2011-03-21 12:39:30 <rauskimon> what was the programs inluded /needed with bitcoin
1703 2011-03-21 12:39:47 <Stellar> ;;bc,calc 600000
1704 2011-03-21 12:39:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 6 days, 7 hours, 30 minutes, and 17 seconds
1705 2011-03-21 12:40:01 <lfm> you uninstalled it? hmmm
1706 2011-03-21 12:40:45 <dust_> someone spamming .01 transactions
1707 2011-03-21 12:41:05 <lfm> dust_: thats happening almost all the time it seems
1708 2011-03-21 12:41:24 sabalaba has joined
1709 2011-03-21 12:41:43 overtork has joined
1710 2011-03-21 12:42:02 <dust_> is the storage used significant?
1711 2011-03-21 12:42:09 <dust_> assuming the attacker did it 24/7
1712 2011-03-21 12:42:15 <lfm> im not sure if anyone has tested the uninstall
1713 2011-03-21 12:43:11 <lfm> dust_: significance is subjective
1714 2011-03-21 12:43:59 overtorque has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1715 2011-03-21 12:44:01 <lfm> its like 100 bytes or so per transaction
1716 2011-03-21 12:44:22 <ArtForz> more like 250 iirc
1717 2011-03-21 12:45:34 <rauskimon> Expection: 11DbExpection Db::open: Invalid argument bitcoin.exe in CMyApp::OnUnhandledExpection()
1718 2011-03-21 12:45:40 <rauskimon> :(
1719 2011-03-21 12:46:35 <lfm> rauskimon: delete the blk files in the data dir, keep the wallet file
1720 2011-03-21 12:47:56 <Kiba> see ya guys later
1721 2011-03-21 12:48:20 <ArtForz> also delete log.* in data dir\database\
1722 2011-03-21 12:49:12 wolfspraul has joined
1723 2011-03-21 12:53:06 <rauskimon> cant find blk files :D
1724 2011-03-21 12:53:33 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1725 2011-03-21 12:53:45 <ZenMondo> actually email me your wallet file and I will make sure its ok for you ;)
1726 2011-03-21 12:54:23 <xelister> ZenMondo: lol I said same thing week ago
1727 2011-03-21 12:54:54 <ZenMondo> how is your ant colony coming xelister? I will probably go to bed soon
1728 2011-03-21 12:55:07 <xelister> ZenMondo: well still I duno... can you find quotes
1729 2011-03-21 12:55:10 <xelister> in this PDF,
1730 2011-03-21 12:55:17 <xelister> how to analyze non-training data exactly?
1731 2011-03-21 12:56:06 <ZenMondo> You mean live data? do you just want to sort it on a grid like the examples?
1732 2011-03-21 12:56:10 <xelister> I have N samples with some attribtes and some classes... more or less it is clearly described how to move them into piles ...  but what then? I have M samples with attributes but with unknown classes, how to find out their class exactly
1733 2011-03-21 12:56:18 <rauskimon> where is those files located..
1734 2011-03-21 12:56:24 <rauskimon> *are
1735 2011-03-21 12:56:35 <xelister> I IS A HOARSE
1736 2011-03-21 12:57:00 <xelister> http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/im_a_horse.jpg
1737 2011-03-21 12:57:43 <xelister> ZenMondo: well I have classified data, and unknown not classified data... I know how to move classified data around by thoes ants, but how to now classify it
1738 2011-03-21 12:58:13 <ZenMondo> ok define for me what you mean by class and attributes then.
1739 2011-03-21 12:58:45 <xelister> ZenMondo: the point is to have attributes,  and find out to what class it belongs, right?
1740 2011-03-21 12:58:57 <xelister> this is most usable case of classifing?
1741 2011-03-21 12:59:25 gasteve has joined
1742 2011-03-21 12:59:47 <xelister> like...  legs:4.0, weight 120.23, speed: 45  and I know it is class H  (Horse \o/)
1743 2011-03-21 12:59:51 <ZenMondo> I don't know if thats the point. The point in the algorthim on page for is to sort by defined types using short term memory and primitive behavior.
1744 2011-03-21 13:00:02 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1745 2011-03-21 13:00:14 <xelister> and after this tragining, I say to program  legs:4.0 weight 119.51 speed: 45.7  and it should guess it is class H
1746 2011-03-21 13:00:33 molecular has joined
1747 2011-03-21 13:00:34 <Keefe> rauskimon: assuming you're on windows... C:\Documents and Settings\Keefe\Application Data\Bitcoin
1748 2011-03-21 13:00:36 <xelister> and class F for fish when I say object has legs:0 weight 1.2 speed 3.8
1749 2011-03-21 13:01:23 <xelister> Keefe:  yaeh it seems up
1750 2011-03-21 13:01:28 <Keefe> thx
1751 2011-03-21 13:02:04 <Keefe> gonna have to find a new host. their firefall keeps blocking my own ip
1752 2011-03-21 13:02:11 <Keefe> firewall*
1753 2011-03-21 13:02:37 <xelister> ZenMondo: ok but sort the data for what reason?
1754 2011-03-21 13:02:46 <Keefe> it's just really cheap shared hosting
1755 2011-03-21 13:02:59 <xelister> ZenMondo: is it sorthing already classified data, if yes then it is useless
1756 2011-03-21 13:03:00 <xelister> or what
1757 2011-03-21 13:03:36 <ZenMondo> well you did say it was an academic exercise.
1758 2011-03-21 13:04:25 <ZenMondo> Should we take the ant discussion to privmsg? or does the rest of the channel like hearing us hash this out?
1759 2011-03-21 13:04:36 <Keefe> doesn't bother me
1760 2011-03-21 13:06:50 <ZenMondo> Ok so the thing basically you have a random unsorted 2-d environment with objects of known types. Our agents the ants have two modes. Not carrying anything -> look for something to carry.  Carrying something -> look for trail of what we got and follow it -> put it down when we get to the end.  Over time the random environment becomes more orderly and entropy decreases.
1761 2011-03-21 13:08:19 <ZenMondo> so like objects will cluster together in the 2-d grid
1762 2011-03-21 13:09:38 <rauskimon> ty.. got it figured
1763 2011-03-21 13:12:13 justmoon has joined
1764 2011-03-21 13:12:22 B3rz3rk3r has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1765 2011-03-21 13:17:50 Phoebus has joined
1766 2011-03-21 13:23:47 <luke-jr> [04:04:11] <genjix> wtf is NumericDisplayType.ScientificSatoshis
1767 2011-03-21 13:23:49 <luke-jr> LOL
1768 2011-03-21 13:23:59 dust_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1769 2011-03-21 13:26:33 Phoebus_ has joined
1770 2011-03-21 13:28:15 akem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1771 2011-03-21 13:28:49 <luke-jr> genjix: looks like it's not quite right though, just from source
1772 2011-03-21 13:29:05 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1773 2011-03-21 13:29:28 <luke-jr> I suspect the tonal point will be missing, and the wrong digits used
1774 2011-03-21 13:33:39 Phoebus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1775 2011-03-21 13:34:04 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1776 2011-03-21 13:37:47 jeremias has joined
1777 2011-03-21 13:37:57 robbiect has joined
1778 2011-03-21 13:40:05 hsuh has joined
1779 2011-03-21 13:40:41 <molecular> what where all those 0.01 cent transactions? did they get into a block or do we have a queue again?
1780 2011-03-21 13:41:14 <ArtForz> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
1781 2011-03-21 13:41:33 <molecular> nice, thanks!
1782 2011-03-21 13:41:33 <luke-jr> my queue is at 540
1783 2011-03-21 13:42:38 <molecular> it's not the faucet, right, cause that pays a fee?
1784 2011-03-21 13:43:01 <luke-jr> it also does 0.05
1785 2011-03-21 13:43:03 <eps1> it will be pools
1786 2011-03-21 13:43:14 <luke-jr> it's not pools
1787 2011-03-21 13:43:16 <luke-jr> it's spam
1788 2011-03-21 13:43:31 <molecular> that was established how?
1789 2011-03-21 13:43:44 <luke-jr> it's all being sent from the same place to another same place
1790 2011-03-21 13:44:07 <molecular> 159FTr7Gjs2Qbj4Q5q29cvmchhqymQA7of ?
1791 2011-03-21 13:44:09 <luke-jr> I suppose it *could* be a pool sending 0.01 to a GPU miner
1792 2011-03-21 13:44:12 <ArtForz> plain old tx spam
1793 2011-03-21 13:44:12 <luke-jr> but that's still spam
1794 2011-03-21 13:44:41 <molecular> what's bitcoins answer to that? they will just stay in queue for very long?
1795 2011-03-21 13:44:52 <eps1> i guess
1796 2011-03-21 13:44:53 <luke-jr> molecular: I just don't included tx without fees
1797 2011-03-21 13:45:01 <ArtForz> yup
1798 2011-03-21 13:45:15 <ArtForz> well, they'll get in at a bit < 4kB = 12 or so tx/block
1799 2011-03-21 13:45:27 dude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1800 2011-03-21 13:45:34 <molecular> that might overflow node ram if spammer continues (a lot)
1801 2011-03-21 13:46:04 <luke-jr> …
1802 2011-03-21 13:46:17 <luke-jr> yet another reason people shouldn't run bitcoin nodes on phones
1803 2011-03-21 13:46:41 <ArtForz> yes. *very* slowly :P
1804 2011-03-21 13:47:53 <molecular> it has been suggested couple weeks ago when we had a good-size backlog to limit tx-queue size. this has not been implemented, has it?
1805 2011-03-21 13:48:10 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1806 2011-03-21 13:50:29 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
1807 2011-03-21 13:50:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114403 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 508 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 22 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66925.88524947
1808 2011-03-21 13:50:45 <Blitzboom> difficulty estimate rising?
1809 2011-03-21 13:51:03 <Blitzboom> oh well
1810 2011-03-21 13:51:05 <ArtForz> btw, why the F is tychos pool putting 100kB of spam/block?
1811 2011-03-21 13:51:24 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 66925
1812 2011-03-21 13:51:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 66925, is 1 week, 5 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes, and 1 second
1813 2011-03-21 13:51:35 <Blitzboom> yep, looks like it: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
1814 2011-03-21 13:54:13 <genjix> "connections" : 42
1815 2011-03-21 13:54:19 <genjix> wtf i thought the max was 8?
1816 2011-03-21 13:54:26 <ArtForz> no
1817 2011-03-21 13:54:31 <ArtForz> max outgoing is 8
1818 2011-03-21 13:54:43 <ArtForz> max incoming is 125
1819 2011-03-21 13:54:45 <genjix> oh that is incoming connections
1820 2011-03-21 13:55:47 <xelister> diff 100,000 here we go.
1821 2011-03-21 13:55:53 <xelister> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
1822 2011-03-21 13:56:01 <ArtForz> ?
1823 2011-03-21 13:56:18 <molecular> xelister, 100.000 I dont think so.. wanna bet?
1824 2011-03-21 13:56:39 <xelister> 8-hour estimate is already touching 100k diff
1825 2011-03-21 13:56:42 <xelister> 100k diff levels
1826 2011-03-21 13:56:55 <molecular> bet you 1 BTC next diff will be <100.000
1827 2011-03-21 13:56:56 <xelister> I assume thoes are in same scale?
1828 2011-03-21 13:57:04 <ArtForz> yea
1829 2011-03-21 13:57:16 Teslah has joined
1830 2011-03-21 13:57:28 <ArtForz> it's called noise
1831 2011-03-21 13:57:29 <xelister> molecular: yes *next* will be <100k.  but it will be >100k in April
1832 2011-03-21 13:57:40 <molecular> yeah
1833 2011-03-21 13:57:51 <molecular> might well happen
1834 2011-03-21 13:58:04 <ArtForz> if mm comes back, yup
1835 2011-03-21 13:58:11 <molecular> wanna bet about the one after the next increase?
1836 2011-03-21 13:58:17 <xelister> ArtForz: stop being like Cezar
1837 2011-03-21 13:58:22 <xelister> reffering to self in 3rd person =)
1838 2011-03-21 13:58:33 robbiect has left ()
1839 2011-03-21 13:58:36 <molecular> :) funny, but not plausible
1840 2011-03-21 13:58:57 <genjix> has anyone here used openssl (the c lib)?
1841 2011-03-21 13:59:16 <genjix> can anyone point me to a good place to ask questions
1842 2011-03-21 13:59:21 <xelister> genjix: well I crosscompiled the motherfucker afair, when crosscompiling bitcoin
1843 2011-03-21 13:59:27 <genjix> im using man pages and source-code
1844 2011-03-21 13:59:31 <xelister> isnt there some #openssl or similar
1845 2011-03-21 13:59:36 <genjix> no
1846 2011-03-21 14:00:03 <molecular> there's openssh, maybe someone knowledgable there
1847 2011-03-21 14:00:10 <genjix> and their website has no info. their mailing list uses a bot to sign up and it's broken.
1848 2011-03-21 14:00:11 <molecular> *#openssh
1849 2011-03-21 14:00:24 <genjix> thanks lets try that :)
1850 2011-03-21 14:04:11 <LobsterMan> anyone know why slush's pool is giving more invalid/stale errors than usual atm?
1851 2011-03-21 14:05:28 <Blitzboom> i noticed that, too
1852 2011-03-21 14:05:33 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1853 2011-03-21 14:05:37 MartianW has joined
1854 2011-03-21 14:05:37 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
1855 2011-03-21 14:05:38 MartianW has joined
1856 2011-03-21 14:05:41 <Blitzboom> but it seems like it stopped
1857 2011-03-21 14:06:06 <MartianW> Blitzboom, what did?
1858 2011-03-21 14:06:06 <MartianW> A blitzboom? ;-)
1859 2011-03-21 14:07:38 <LobsterMan> hmm possible
1860 2011-03-21 14:07:40 <LobsterMan> too early to say
1861 2011-03-21 14:12:11 <joepie91> ;;help bc
1862 2011-03-21 14:12:11 <gribble> Error: There is no command "bc".
1863 2011-03-21 14:12:15 <joepie91> ;;list bc
1864 2011-03-21 14:12:16 <gribble> Error: 'bc' is not a valid plugin.
1865 2011-03-21 14:12:18 <joepie91> oh come on
1866 2011-03-21 14:12:23 <joepie91> ;;commands
1867 2011-03-21 14:12:23 <gribble> ?, about, action, add, alert, alias, announce, announce add, announce list, announce remove, any, aol, apply, apropos, at, auth, author, azn, ban add, ban list, ban remove, base, bashorg, bc,bcm, bc,blocks, bc,btcex, bc,calc, bc,calcd, bc,diff, bc,estimate, bc,gen, bc,gend, bc,help, bc,hextarget, bc,labs, bc,lbs, bc,markets, bc,mtgox, bc,nexttarget, bc,poolstats, bc,prob, bc,stats, (7 more messages)
1868 2011-03-21 14:12:26 <joepie91> ;;more
1869 2011-03-21 14:12:27 <gribble> bc,timetonext, bc,totalbc, bc,wiki, binary, blockmonitor, bold, book, bot, botsnack, boturl, botweb, buy, cache, calc, call, cand, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, capitalize, ceq, change, changename, channel, channeldb, channels, channelstats, cheer, chr, cif, clearq, cmd, coin, collect, color, (6 more messages)
1870 2011-03-21 14:12:39 <joepie91> ;;help bc,estimate
1871 2011-03-21 14:12:40 <gribble> (bc,estimate <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "web fetch http://blockexplorer.com/q/estimate".
1872 2011-03-21 14:12:55 <joepie91> derp, I don't know these commands D:
1873 2011-03-21 14:13:02 <joepie91> how can I calculate how long it takes for 50btc
1874 2011-03-21 14:13:07 <joepie91> with my hashing power
1875 2011-03-21 14:13:58 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 1260000
1876 2011-03-21 14:13:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1260000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, and 42 seconds
1877 2011-03-21 14:17:13 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1878 2011-03-21 14:17:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114406 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 505 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 0 hours, 47 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66936.31569104
1879 2011-03-21 14:27:21 <Blitzboom> slush: what’s up with all the invalid shares lately?
1880 2011-03-21 14:27:33 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1881 2011-03-21 14:28:05 ApertureScience has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1882 2011-03-21 14:28:06 hsuh has left ()
1883 2011-03-21 14:33:48 <gasteve> what are invalid shares?
1884 2011-03-21 14:34:39 <LobsterMan> not sure exactly
1885 2011-03-21 14:34:45 * LobsterMan pokes slush and slush2
1886 2011-03-21 14:35:05 <slush2> yep?
1887 2011-03-21 14:35:46 <slush2> invalid shares are shares calculated from older-than-current block
1888 2011-03-21 14:35:53 dwdollar has left ()
1889 2011-03-21 14:36:20 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1890 2011-03-21 14:36:52 <Blitzboom> slush2: what’s up with all the invalid shares lately?
1891 2011-03-21 14:37:05 <Blitzboom> anything going on?
1892 2011-03-21 14:37:22 <slush2> what do you mean?
1893 2011-03-21 14:37:31 <LobsterMan> i am getting a very large number
1894 2011-03-21 14:37:41 <slush2> you have bunch of invalid on the pool now?
1895 2011-03-21 14:37:58 <LobsterMan> yes
1896 2011-03-21 14:38:02 dwdollar has joined
1897 2011-03-21 14:38:40 <slush2> I'm solving the trouble with spam tx now
1898 2011-03-21 14:38:48 <LobsterMan> http://i.imgur.com/DBZ53.png
1899 2011-03-21 14:38:55 <slush2> bitcoind is going crazy, I don't see why exactly
1900 2011-03-21 14:39:02 <LobsterMan> very large number o f invalid/stale
1901 2011-03-21 14:39:09 <slush2> yes, that's probably of this
1902 2011-03-21 14:39:35 <slush2> I see peaks in bitcoind and then the requests timeout
1903 2011-03-21 14:40:01 <slush2> I'm thinking to temporary reject non-fee tx to solve this
1904 2011-03-21 14:40:19 <slush2> before I'll find some better solution
1905 2011-03-21 14:40:40 ApertureScience has joined
1906 2011-03-21 14:45:18 xelister has joined
1907 2011-03-21 14:46:24 <xelister> RADEEEEEOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
1908 2011-03-21 14:46:49 <xelister> Y U CONTINUE TO CRASH MY LINUX WHEN I MOVE MOUSE NEAR WINDOW BORDER
1909 2011-03-21 14:47:05 <joepie91> heh
1910 2011-03-21 14:47:15 <joepie91> ati + linux = mhhhh
1911 2011-03-21 14:47:55 <xelister> :[[[ raGEon.
1912 2011-03-21 14:48:10 <joepie91> ATI, WHY U NO WERK ON LINUX (????)?
1913 2011-03-21 14:48:23 <xelister> it works!
1914 2011-03-21 14:48:27 <[Tycho]> Get real, use Windows.
1915 2011-03-21 14:48:38 <xelister> unless you use dual headed, or switch terminals, or move mouse cursor around
1916 2011-03-21 14:48:53 <gasteve> slush2: one feature I'd like to see is a projected time for your next distribution (based on the current network block rate, your pending rewards and your payout threshold, I'd think it's be straightforward to project the time of next payout)
1917 2011-03-21 14:48:55 <joepie91> well, actually, *when* you get ati catalyst installed it works pretty nice
1918 2011-03-21 14:49:01 <joepie91> just try to not touch catalyst after you got it installed
1919 2011-03-21 14:49:11 * joepie91 thinks ati should write better linux shit
1920 2011-03-21 14:49:14 <xelister> [Tycho]: Ati crashes windows in horrible ways. I learned that in times of geforce 2 mx
1921 2011-03-21 14:49:21 <lfm> driver bugs try a different version 10-10, 10-11 or 10-12
1922 2011-03-21 14:49:38 <xelister> lfm: many drivers, many cards, many computers
1923 2011-03-21 14:49:40 <xelister> they all suck cocks
1924 2011-03-21 14:49:47 <xelister> nvidia suckcs cocks too, but in other wya
1925 2011-03-21 14:49:49 <xelister> way
1926 2011-03-21 14:50:05 <xelister> basically for totally stable desktop you should use intell.
1927 2011-03-21 14:50:28 <lfm> ok, take it out on us then, we are strong we can take it
1928 2011-03-21 14:50:30 <joepie91> it's sad
1929 2011-03-21 14:50:33 <joepie91> but xelister, you're right
1930 2011-03-21 14:50:34 <joepie91> lol
1931 2011-03-21 14:50:45 <joepie91> intel either works or does not work, no bullshit unstable shit
1932 2011-03-21 14:51:11 <lfm> intel opencl?
1933 2011-03-21 14:51:52 <joepie91> dunno if opencl werks on intel
1934 2011-03-21 14:52:03 <xelister> I move mouse cursor out of display border, whoops, I move it back
1935 2011-03-21 14:52:24 <xelister> I move mouse cursor out of display border, whoops, I move it... hmm where is the mouse cursor gone?  ooooh I know, the computer frozen, again. Thanks ati.
1936 2011-03-21 14:52:37 <[Tycho]> Do not move your cursor when mining.
1937 2011-03-21 14:52:54 <lfm> thats it let it allll out
1938 2011-03-21 14:54:17 axilla has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1939 2011-03-21 14:55:25 <luke-jr> joepie91: like 600 kH/s
1940 2011-03-21 14:55:42 <joepie91> lol ok
1941 2011-03-21 15:04:15 towerX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1942 2011-03-21 15:04:47 slush2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1943 2011-03-21 15:05:38 BitcoinNewb has joined
1944 2011-03-21 15:05:53 <BitcoinNewb> hey there anybody around?
1945 2011-03-21 15:05:57 <joepie91> <Zachary>I was getting RESTful with your mom last night. She was like 200 successful. And then I was like, well I'll show you where you can PUT it. And she was like 201 created.
1946 2011-03-21 15:05:57 <joepie91> <Zachary>I went to his mom and she was like 402 - payment required, and I was like 404? - not found, and she was like 204 No Content?, and I was like 206 Partial Content, and then she was like 416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable, and I was like 404 Not Found, and she was like 408 Request Timeout and she took off and I was like aww, damn, 503 Service Unavailable.
1947 2011-03-21 15:06:08 tower has joined
1948 2011-03-21 15:07:34 <BitcoinNewb> i got a quick question: my pc just crashed while running bitcoin. now i get "error loading blkindex.dat" . haven't found anything about that error yet
1949 2011-03-21 15:08:10 <joepie91> BitcoinNewb: did you already use it to transfer money?
1950 2011-03-21 15:08:20 <joepie91> someone I know solved it by deleting the blkindex.dat and waiting for it to redownload
1951 2011-03-21 15:08:26 <joepie91> but I don't know if that might affect your wallet somehow
1952 2011-03-21 15:08:44 <BitcoinNewb> my wallet is 0 anyway so that wouldn't be an issue ;-)
1953 2011-03-21 15:08:46 tower is now known as towerX
1954 2011-03-21 15:08:58 <joepie91> heh
1955 2011-03-21 15:08:58 <joepie91> well
1956 2011-03-21 15:09:00 <BitcoinNewb> where can i find that thing though?
1957 2011-03-21 15:09:02 <joepie91> then I guess it's safe to remove the file
1958 2011-03-21 15:09:03 <joepie91> hmm
1959 2011-03-21 15:09:06 <joepie91> what OS>?
1960 2011-03-21 15:09:12 <BitcoinNewb> win 7
1961 2011-03-21 15:09:26 <joepie91> I suppose it'd be in C:/Users/username/AppData/Roaming/Bitcoin
1962 2011-03-21 15:09:33 <joepie91> otherwise, in the program files directory
1963 2011-03-21 15:09:39 <joepie91> but I think it;s in appdata
1964 2011-03-21 15:09:40 <BitcoinNewb> thanks man.i'll check
1965 2011-03-21 15:09:44 Sidnicious has joined
1966 2011-03-21 15:10:04 gavinandresen has joined
1967 2011-03-21 15:10:35 <BitcoinNewb> worked like a charm. thanks man
1968 2011-03-21 15:10:40 <joepie91> np :)
1969 2011-03-21 15:11:10 <BitcoinNewb> this whole thing sounds pretty exciting :-D
1970 2011-03-21 15:11:47 <BitcoinNewb> i'm one of those guys who found out about bitcoin because of that google engineer
1971 2011-03-21 15:12:07 <gavinandresen> Anybody else noticing a big increase in traffic to their bitcoin websites this morning?  The Faucet started giving out a lot more coins about 6 hours ago....
1972 2011-03-21 15:12:39 <gavinandresen> Ah, did the BitcoinJ story get picked up somewhere big?
1973 2011-03-21 15:13:08 <BitcoinNewb> yeah i think i saw it on reddit and ycombinator
1974 2011-03-21 15:13:22 <gavinandresen> That'll do it...
1975 2011-03-21 15:13:27 <BitcoinNewb> lots of tech guys on there
1976 2011-03-21 15:14:21 <BitcoinNewb> alright i got a lot of catching up to do ;-)
1977 2011-03-21 15:14:24 <BitcoinNewb> see ya
1978 2011-03-21 15:14:58 BitcoinNewb has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1979 2011-03-21 15:18:13 <TD> morning gavin
1980 2011-03-21 15:18:31 <Blitzboom> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/g7zlw/google_engineer_releases_open_source_bitcoin/
1981 2011-03-21 15:18:39 <Blitzboom> nice, 231 comments
1982 2011-03-21 15:18:44 <TD> good interview in cio.com.au btw
1983 2011-03-21 15:19:02 <Blitzboom> i liked that podcast better :P
1984 2011-03-21 15:20:38 <gavinandresen> TD: thanks
1985 2011-03-21 15:21:54 <luke-jr> wtf is this idiot false advertising: "It allows transactions without fees (at least for next 10 years), therefore cheaper than paypal"
1986 2011-03-21 15:22:35 <luke-jr> and listing mostly illegal crap for "what it enables" as if that's good
1987 2011-03-21 15:23:17 <TD> it's unfortunate that there's so much discussion of the silk road, and witcoin just got flooded with plentyoffish dating ads
1988 2011-03-21 15:23:24 <TD> but i guess that's inevitable
1989 2011-03-21 15:24:48 <da2ce7> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4739.0 :)
1990 2011-03-21 15:25:44 <TD> gavinandresen: it'd be interesting to see a graph of faucet payments
1991 2011-03-21 15:25:52 akem has joined
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2004 2011-03-21 15:31:45 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: bitcoin is cheaper than paypal
2005 2011-03-21 15:31:54 <EvanR-work> depending on the goal
2006 2011-03-21 15:32:30 <sgornick> TD: graph of faucet payments?  coming right up. ...
2007 2011-03-21 15:32:31 <sgornick> http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/
2008 2011-03-21 15:33:02 <sipa> bitcoin and paypal cannot be compared
2009 2011-03-21 15:33:23 <sipa> a paypal-like service for bitcoin may be as expensive as paypal now
2010 2011-03-21 15:33:23 <nanotube> gavinandresen: great interview on cio.au :)
2011 2011-03-21 15:33:23 <sgornick> There's 7.81 let of the bitcoin that the faucet is using for 0.05 btc payouts.
2012 2011-03-21 15:34:28 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2013 2011-03-21 15:34:59 <joepie91> reality -> http://owely.com/0VQzMA
2014 2011-03-21 15:37:57 <Sidnicious> So, why exactly is my bitcoin client connecting to irc.ifnet.org?
2015 2011-03-21 15:38:10 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: I mean the "without fees (at least for next 10 years)"
2016 2011-03-21 15:38:13 <sipa> Sidnicious: to bootstrap
2017 2011-03-21 15:38:18 <sipa> it needs to find peers initially
2018 2011-03-21 15:38:30 <BlueMatt> lfnet not ifnet
2019 2011-03-21 15:38:31 kiba has joined
2020 2011-03-21 15:38:33 <kiba> yo
2021 2011-03-21 15:38:36 <EvanR-work> thats a little silly but still, ive never paid fees
2022 2011-03-21 15:38:53 <Teslah> all nodes connect to a channel to find peers, but if it can't connect, it'll default builtin list of peers.
2023 2011-03-21 15:38:57 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: tx are already being delayed if they don't have fees
2024 2011-03-21 15:38:59 <Sidnicious> ah... that makes sense. How exactly does it scale, though?
2025 2011-03-21 15:39:06 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: fees will be required within 10 years for sure
2026 2011-03-21 15:39:10 <luke-jr> Sidnicious: it doesn't.
2027 2011-03-21 15:39:15 <BlueMatt> Sidnicious: we are currently having problems with that...
2028 2011-03-21 15:39:21 <gavinandresen> Sidnicious:  bitcoin also uses that IRC connection to figure out your external IP address, so other nodes can connect to you (if your firewall port is open)
2029 2011-03-21 15:39:55 <Sidnicious> mmm
2030 2011-03-21 15:40:00 <luke-jr> Sidnicious: it's only required for a few years at most anyway
2031 2011-03-21 15:40:17 <luke-jr> once IPv6 deployment finishes, we can just use multicast
2032 2011-03-21 15:40:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: how is that going btw?
2033 2011-03-21 15:40:54 <Sidnicious> Oh god, that's a part of IPv6 I'm not familiar with. You can multicast over the WAN?
2034 2011-03-21 15:41:07 <BlueMatt> Sidnicious: yea its a built in standard
2035 2011-03-21 15:41:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: afaik, the next hurdle is to send your IPv6 address onto the network, rather than IPv4
2036 2011-03-21 15:41:18 <luke-jr> actually, multicast IPv6 should make p2p obsolete
2037 2011-03-21 15:41:28 <luke-jr> just multicast your tx and all the miners now have it…
2038 2011-03-21 15:41:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: though to be honest, that could provide huge DDoS potential
2039 2011-03-21 15:42:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not really
2040 2011-03-21 15:42:12 <luke-jr> it's just more efficient than p2p
2041 2011-03-21 15:42:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: that is true
2042 2011-03-21 15:42:44 <BlueMatt> but there is no filtering
2043 2011-03-21 15:42:54 <luke-jr> don't need filtering?
2044 2011-03-21 15:43:02 <BlueMatt> I can send 5 billion invalid txes to the network and they get passed to every node
2045 2011-03-21 15:43:11 <luke-jr> so?
2046 2011-03-21 15:43:23 <BlueMatt> and each node has to check each of my txes instead of a couple nodes
2047 2011-03-21 15:43:58 <BlueMatt> if I can fill a 100mbps link to the network all nodes which dont have that much bandwidth are fucked
2048 2011-03-21 15:44:27 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nodes don't need to listen to tx
2049 2011-03-21 15:44:29 <luke-jr> only miners
2050 2011-03-21 15:44:33 <dsg> ISPs generally do not pass multicast outside their networks for IPv6, just like for IPv4.
2051 2011-03-21 15:44:46 <luke-jr> dsg: doesn't that violate the standard?
2052 2011-03-21 15:44:48 <dsg> Because of the potential for DoS.
2053 2011-03-21 15:44:50 devrandom has joined
2054 2011-03-21 15:44:54 <dsg> luke-jr: No.
2055 2011-03-21 15:45:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok so I send to the client multicast address which listens for blocks
2056 2011-03-21 15:45:24 <BlueMatt> dsg: yea I was wondering about that
2057 2011-03-21 15:45:30 <BlueMatt> makes sense though
2058 2011-03-21 15:45:54 <MacRohard> encode the blockchain in a youtube video
2059 2011-03-21 15:46:08 <MacRohard> and get google to edgecast it
2060 2011-03-21 15:46:09 <MacRohard> heh
2061 2011-03-21 15:46:29 <BlueMatt> MacRohard: or download the current version from bitcoin.bluematt.me ;) though I suppose that wont scale...
2062 2011-03-21 15:46:55 <MacRohard> well some sort of mirror network could be setup i guess
2063 2011-03-21 15:47:11 <BlueMatt> MacRohard: or we start using thin clients
2064 2011-03-21 15:47:27 <MacRohard> perhaps..
2065 2011-03-21 15:49:40 brunner has joined
2066 2011-03-21 15:53:35 <EvanR-work> http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110319/NEWS01/110319006/Liberty-Dollar-fake-currency-creator-convicted-federal-court
2067 2011-03-21 15:54:43 <EvanR-work> Congress has exclusive power to coin money in the U.S. and to regulate its value, according to the Treasury Department.
2068 2011-03-21 15:54:56 <gavinandresen> Moral to the story:  if you create physical bitcoins, make them look like marbles.  Or twenty-sided dice.  Or anything that doesn't look like paper or coin money....
2069 2011-03-21 15:55:09 <Validus> id buy some 20 sided dice
2070 2011-03-21 15:55:10 <Validus> hehe
2071 2011-03-21 15:55:37 <gavinandresen> EvanR-work:  yeah, the Treasury Department is wrong.  If they were serious, they'd be cracking down on Disney Dollars.
2072 2011-03-21 15:56:08 <EvanR-work> the article also says that a US attorney described the guy as a terrorist
2073 2011-03-21 15:56:10 * sipa thinks they'll look like scratch cards
2074 2011-03-21 15:56:16 <BlueMatt> To be fair, you have to understand where they are coming from...
2075 2011-03-21 15:56:21 <EvanR-work> despite the generally accepted definition of a terrorist as being violent in some way
2076 2011-03-21 15:56:23 <BlueMatt> not that I agree, but I understand
2077 2011-03-21 15:56:40 <EvanR-work> i think everyone agrees where they are coming from
2078 2011-03-21 15:56:50 <BlueMatt> not with the classification of terrorism but the aversion from non-usd currencies
2079 2011-03-21 15:57:18 <BlueMatt> that makes sense economically
2080 2011-03-21 15:57:58 <EvanR-work> if it makes so much sense economically, then they should make alternative currency illegal
2081 2011-03-21 15:58:06 <EvanR-work> but they didnt
2082 2011-03-21 15:58:08 Zarutian has joined
2083 2011-03-21 15:58:23 <EvanR-work> because it doesnt
2084 2011-03-21 15:58:25 <BlueMatt> well look at europe pre-eu
2085 2011-03-21 15:58:42 <BlueMatt> it was a serious PITA to just buy something from someone 2hours away
2086 2011-03-21 15:58:57 <BlueMatt> and that just slows down the economy
2087 2011-03-21 15:59:12 <EvanR-work> i see a continent so rich and powerful they it tore itself apart multiple times and recovering in time to do it again in a decade
2088 2011-03-21 15:59:28 <BlueMatt> ha yea
2089 2011-03-21 15:59:33 <EvanR-work> then the EU happened
2090 2011-03-21 15:59:59 <BlueMatt> but economically having to switch currencies to buy stuff just slows down economic activity which is the first thing the govt doesnt want to do
2091 2011-03-21 16:00:02 <luke-jr> these articles are annoyingly misleading
2092 2011-03-21 16:00:13 <luke-jr> he wasn't convicted of terrorism, was he?
2093 2011-03-21 16:00:18 <luke-jr> IIRC it's just counterfeiting
2094 2011-03-21 16:00:50 <EvanR-work> mail fraud, money laundering
2095 2011-03-21 16:00:55 <EvanR-work> counterfeiting
2096 2011-03-21 16:01:08 <luke-jr> but not terrorism
2097 2011-03-21 16:01:15 <EvanR-work> legally hes not a terrorist
2098 2011-03-21 16:01:30 <BlueMatt> which is very different
2099 2011-03-21 16:01:32 <EvanR-work> unless we took a wrong turn in 2011 and ended up in 1984
2100 2011-03-21 16:01:34 hahuang65 has quit (lappy!~hahuang65@c-76-126-13-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net|)
2101 2011-03-21 16:02:11 <EvanR-work> it would be 'hilarious' if he ended up in gitmo for this
2102 2011-03-21 16:02:20 <BlueMatt> re: should have illigalized alternate currencies: they did its called counterfeiting
2103 2011-03-21 16:02:25 <Validus> well liberty reserve was well known for being shady and stolen account
2104 2011-03-21 16:02:29 <EvanR-work> BlueMatt: no
2105 2011-03-21 16:02:39 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: the way they have it defined in the law
2106 2011-03-21 16:03:09 <EvanR-work> Validus: it seemed shady, but how is bitcoin any different?
2107 2011-03-21 16:03:13 <BlueMatt> iirc its something like "looks like existing us currency"
2108 2011-03-21 16:03:26 <EvanR-work> so it has coin shape?
2109 2011-03-21 16:03:28 <Validus> well your not getting lots of users signing up with stolen credit cards, etc
2110 2011-03-21 16:03:42 robotarmy has joined
2111 2011-03-21 16:03:50 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: pretty much but you have to admit liberty dollar looked a lot like the usd coins
2112 2011-03-21 16:03:55 <Validus> lr had publicity everywhere about their shady dealings, not verifying anything, etc
2113 2011-03-21 16:04:13 <luke-jr> obviously you should make 16-side polygons for TBC
2114 2011-03-21 16:04:13 <BlueMatt> Validus: we are talking about liberty dollar not liberty reserve
2115 2011-03-21 16:04:14 <luke-jr> :p
2116 2011-03-21 16:04:26 <BlueMatt> and ten-sided for BTC
2117 2011-03-21 16:04:30 <BlueMatt> god that would be confusing
2118 2011-03-21 16:04:40 <luke-jr> or we could do half the base
2119 2011-03-21 16:04:47 <luke-jr> 5-sided BTC and 8-sided TBC
2120 2011-03-21 16:05:04 <luke-jr> nobody uses an odd base, right? :
2121 2011-03-21 16:05:05 <luke-jr> :p
2122 2011-03-21 16:05:11 <EvanR-work> 3
2123 2011-03-21 16:05:21 <BlueMatt> no one counts in base 16 right?...oh wait
2124 2011-03-21 16:05:26 <sipa> Ternary BitCoin?
2125 2011-03-21 16:05:38 <luke-jr> and 6-sided ZBC
2126 2011-03-21 16:05:39 <ArtForz> nah, use log10(base), so bitcoins are 1-sided and tbc 1.204-sided
2127 2011-03-21 16:05:50 <BlueMatt> Ternary BitCoin = TBC
2128 2011-03-21 16:05:54 <luke-jr> ArtForz: log10 makes no sense
2129 2011-03-21 16:05:55 <gavinandresen> mobius coins would be cool
2130 2011-03-21 16:06:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: TBC = Tonal BitCoin
2131 2011-03-21 16:06:03 <sipa> haha was just about to say the same
2132 2011-03-21 16:06:07 <luke-jr> ZBC = doZenal BitCoin
2133 2011-03-21 16:06:13 <EvanR-work> this is bullshit. so his conviction means he goes to jail, ok, but then government is just taking his warehouse of gold and silver??
2134 2011-03-21 16:06:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and now it means Ternary too ;)
2135 2011-03-21 16:06:23 <ArtForz> luke-jr: and 1.2-sided objects *do* make sense?
2136 2011-03-21 16:06:31 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: no, the government is taking his warehouse of OTHER PEOPLE'S gold and silver
2137 2011-03-21 16:06:41 <EvanR-work> >_>
2138 2011-03-21 16:06:42 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: some kind of curve?
2139 2011-03-21 16:06:52 <ducki2p> EvanR-work: its for your protection, really
2140 2011-03-21 16:07:01 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: and will the government give it to them in exchange for liberty dollars?
2141 2011-03-21 16:07:04 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: and from the sound of it, they're trying to collect all the silver/gold coins in circulation
2142 2011-03-21 16:07:05 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: yea I agree that is fucked up
2143 2011-03-21 16:07:09 <ducki2p> otherwise you might think they are FRNs
2144 2011-03-21 16:07:29 <ArtForz> well, I guess 1-sided works, just make mobius strips or klein bottles, but 1.2 would be quite a trick
2145 2011-03-21 16:07:29 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: if you're lucky, you might get FRN
2146 2011-03-21 16:07:34 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: for less than the face value
2147 2011-03-21 16:07:50 <EvanR-work> ._.
2148 2011-03-21 16:08:18 <luke-jr> my objection to ALD back when it was operating, was that the $20 coin was only like $12 of silver
2149 2011-03-21 16:08:20 <BlueMatt> though I agree that he should have made them look a bit less like USD
2150 2011-03-21 16:08:51 <EvanR-work> yes
2151 2011-03-21 16:09:00 <sipa> and maybe he shouldn't have used the name 'Dollar' either
2152 2011-03-21 16:09:09 towerX is now known as tower
2153 2011-03-21 16:09:09 <luke-jr> pfft everyone uses dollar
2154 2011-03-21 16:09:13 <EvanR-work> dollar isnt a trademark of the government, sorry
2155 2011-03-21 16:09:13 <sipa> although i'm not sure whether that should matter legally
2156 2011-03-21 16:09:32 <BlueMatt> well I agree it SHOULDNT but that is the way the law is written so...
2157 2011-03-21 16:10:05 <luke-jr> it would be awesome to have 8-sided coins <.<
2158 2011-03-21 16:11:26 <EvanR-work> it seems like an intellectual property-like thing, the dude was trying to use the likeness of US money and culture to make his product more attractive, and the owner of that IP shut him down
2159 2011-03-21 16:11:52 <EvanR-work> if he called them BonzoBucks he probably wouldnt have gotten any supporters
2160 2011-03-21 16:12:13 <luke-jr> lol
2161 2011-03-21 16:12:29 <BlueMatt> yep
2162 2011-03-21 16:13:20 <luke-jr> dunno, I would have accepted NORFED Liberty Dollars
2163 2011-03-21 16:13:29 <EvanR-work> i was confused initially with the plan, because its not obvious from the branding that its backed by gold
2164 2011-03-21 16:13:39 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2165 2011-03-21 16:14:05 <luke-jr> I don't get why bother with backed-by-gold?
2166 2011-03-21 16:14:10 <luke-jr> why not just … trade gold?
2167 2011-03-21 16:14:11 <EvanR-work> but 'grams of gold notes' wouldnt have had the same face value effect
2168 2011-03-21 16:14:19 sgornick has joined
2169 2011-03-21 16:14:23 <luke-jr> face value is half the problem
2170 2011-03-21 16:14:31 <EvanR-work> his notes had face values of $5 and such
2171 2011-03-21 16:14:41 <luke-jr> and that $5 note was worth $2 of gold
2172 2011-03-21 16:14:46 <EvanR-work> right
2173 2011-03-21 16:14:57 <EvanR-work> you trade your notes in later when the gold price goes up
2174 2011-03-21 16:15:07 <EvanR-work> so its confusing
2175 2011-03-21 16:16:59 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2176 2011-03-21 16:17:10 <luke-jr> yeah, so if the gold is ever worth that $5, you get it reprinted with $10
2177 2011-03-21 16:17:13 <luke-jr> SO logical
2178 2011-03-21 16:17:36 <luke-jr> *that* is the real counterfieting
2179 2011-03-21 16:17:44 <luke-jr> passing <$5 of gold off as $5
2180 2011-03-21 16:17:56 <EvanR-work> it cant be worth more gold than the face value
2181 2011-03-21 16:18:01 SykeP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2182 2011-03-21 16:18:07 <luke-jr> sure it can
2183 2011-03-21 16:18:17 <EvanR-work> then people hoard it instead of spending it
2184 2011-03-21 16:18:24 jrabbit has joined
2185 2011-03-21 16:18:25 <EvanR-work> like gold coins with face value $50
2186 2011-03-21 16:18:34 Minert has joined
2187 2011-03-21 16:18:53 <luke-jr> then I guess you just omit a face value besides what it really is
2188 2011-03-21 16:18:57 SykeP has joined
2189 2011-03-21 16:19:04 <luke-jr> eg, if it's 1 oz of silver, you write 1 oz of silver
2190 2011-03-21 16:19:05 <EvanR-work> yep, then its gold
2191 2011-03-21 16:19:12 <EvanR-work> that would have made way more sense
2192 2011-03-21 16:19:30 <EvanR-work> but he wouldnt have had the USD brand recognition
2193 2011-03-21 16:19:40 <luke-jr> that's half the point
2194 2011-03-21 16:20:44 <BlueMatt> In other news, china attacked google's servers again
2195 2011-03-21 16:22:14 <devrandom> really?
2196 2011-03-21 16:22:30 <BlueMatt> yea apparently trying to get into people's gmail accounts
2197 2011-03-21 16:22:46 <luke-jr> why don't we just cut off network links to China?
2198 2011-03-21 16:23:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I agree but that would just make it worse in china
2199 2011-03-21 16:23:05 <EvanR-work> the economy would collapse
2200 2011-03-21 16:23:48 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: he said net links not trade links its not like we sell anything online to china
2201 2011-03-21 16:23:50 <devrandom> okay, they attacked the gmail accounts externally, not hacked into google proper ....  http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/03/21/158204/Google-Accuses-China-of-Interfering-With-Gmail
2202 2011-03-21 16:23:51 <EvanR-work> it would also set a precedent for government control of US based privately owned internet backbones
2203 2011-03-21 16:24:09 <EvanR-work> BlueMatt: ... walmart has to talk to their associates based in china
2204 2011-03-21 16:24:11 <BlueMatt> devrandom: yea, but same thing attacking google servers
2205 2011-03-21 16:24:13 <EvanR-work> etc
2206 2011-03-21 16:24:26 <devrandom> it does show that centralized/cloud services are a problem
2207 2011-03-21 16:24:30 <devrandom> need more p2p/mesh
2208 2011-03-21 16:24:31 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: ok his comment was sarcastic...
2209 2011-03-21 16:24:48 <BlueMatt> devrandom: thats why I use mail served out of my basement :)
2210 2011-03-21 16:25:00 <EvanR-work> hm.
2211 2011-03-21 16:25:03 <devrandom> similar here
2212 2011-03-21 16:25:14 <EvanR-work> im so entrenched in google mail services
2213 2011-03-21 16:25:19 <EvanR-work> everything is linked to them
2214 2011-03-21 16:25:34 <EvanR-work> but i dont trust google from internal or external threats
2215 2011-03-21 16:26:01 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: I trust google enough for gdocs but I prefer to run my own stuff just for control
2216 2011-03-21 16:26:04 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: I didn't say the government should do it
2217 2011-03-21 16:26:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: did you see my response from yesterday, re Windows?
2218 2011-03-21 16:26:16 <EvanR-work> well 'we' cant do it much better
2219 2011-03-21 16:26:18 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt mind gmail though I just prefer complete control
2220 2011-03-21 16:26:25 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: didnt really understand it frankly
2221 2011-03-21 16:26:38 <EvanR-work> BlueMatt: you think google has their ass covered when it comes to these chinese ?
2222 2011-03-21 16:26:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: in terms of grammar and such
2223 2011-03-21 16:26:53 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: not really
2224 2011-03-21 16:26:55 <EvanR-work> how much faith do you have in giant corporate security
2225 2011-03-21 16:26:57 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: I just block all Chinese subnets on my servers
2226 2011-03-21 16:26:57 <EvanR-work> ya
2227 2011-03-21 16:26:59 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you asked me something along the lines of "you do not mess around with Windows builds, right?"
2228 2011-03-21 16:27:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes
2229 2011-03-21 16:27:44 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: I have good faith in google it is so heavily engineer based and not high level executives who are just marketing people
2230 2011-03-21 16:27:49 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: to which the response is, yes, I do mess around with Windows builds.  cpuminer is built 100% on Fedora 14 Linux, using its most excellent mingw32 support.
2231 2011-03-21 16:27:58 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ah
2232 2011-03-21 16:28:03 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: there was some worm DDoSing my webserver, 99.9% were Chinese IPs
2233 2011-03-21 16:28:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: have you ever built bitcoin for win on fedora?
2234 2011-03-21 16:28:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: what server do you host that gets DDoSed?
2235 2011-03-21 16:28:45 <devrandom> luke-jr - there are more compromised computers in USA AFAIK
2236 2011-03-21 16:28:49 <kiba> jgarzik: so is this pastecoin open for business?
2237 2011-03-21 16:28:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: my personal webserver luke.dashjr.org
2238 2011-03-21 16:28:58 <luke-jr> devrandom: guess China hates me
2239 2011-03-21 16:29:03 <luke-jr> blocking China did most of the trick
2240 2011-03-21 16:29:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: any idea why?
2241 2011-03-21 16:29:14 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nope
2242 2011-03-21 16:29:24 <kiba> Chinese criminal activities?
2243 2011-03-21 16:29:30 <devrandom> might have been a specific botnet
2244 2011-03-21 16:29:55 <luke-jr> they were picking large files to download
2245 2011-03-21 16:30:05 <luke-jr> so I replaced one with a PHP script that adds an IP block
2246 2011-03-21 16:30:17 <BlueMatt> lol nice
2247 2011-03-21 16:30:32 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2248 2011-03-21 16:31:42 <EvanR-work> http://www.techworld.com.au/article/380396/google_releases_open_source_bitcoin_client/
2249 2011-03-21 16:31:54 <BlueMatt> well thats just misinformation
2250 2011-03-21 16:32:26 d__ has joined
2251 2011-03-21 16:32:50 <BlueMatt> nice comments gavinandresen
2252 2011-03-21 16:32:59 <gavinandresen> thanks
2253 2011-03-21 16:34:02 <justmoon> gavinandresen: is there a reason Mike is stated as "mike" without last name? I'm sure he would have given them permission to use his real name if asked, no?
2254 2011-03-21 16:34:15 <BlueMatt> justmoon: his name is not actually mike
2255 2011-03-21 16:34:21 <BlueMatt> he just goes by [mike] on the forums
2256 2011-03-21 16:34:24 <BlueMatt> IIRC
2257 2011-03-21 16:34:52 <Diablo-D3> well
2258 2011-03-21 16:34:54 <Diablo-D3> he COULD be a mike
2259 2011-03-21 16:35:02 <BlueMatt> well his email is hearn@google.com
2260 2011-03-21 16:35:06 <BlueMatt> so I guess he could be mike
2261 2011-03-21 16:35:14 <BlueMatt> I guess I didnt recall correctly...
2262 2011-03-21 16:35:21 <gavinandresen> TD:  your name is Mike Hearn, yes?  Did Rodney contact you about BitcoinJ for his article?
2263 2011-03-21 16:35:33 <TD> yes and no
2264 2011-03-21 16:35:48 <TD> first thing i knew about it was this morning when a colleague said there was an article about bitcoinj
2265 2011-03-21 16:35:50 <Diablo-D3> what article?
2266 2011-03-21 16:35:52 bt2200 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2267 2011-03-21 16:36:00 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: EvanR-work linked it
2268 2011-03-21 16:36:08 <Diablo-D3> oh that
2269 2011-03-21 16:36:11 <TD> my name is mike
2270 2011-03-21 16:36:13 <gavinandresen> I should have asked him to contact you-- do you mind if I give your email address to reporters that contact me/us?
2271 2011-03-21 16:36:24 <gavinandresen> (or should I direct them to Google PR or something?)
2272 2011-03-21 16:36:25 Guest43568 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2273 2011-03-21 16:36:38 <Diablo-D3> EvanR needs to quit linking to Microsoft PR trash
2274 2011-03-21 16:36:42 <Diablo-D3> fucking IDG shit
2275 2011-03-21 16:37:09 <TD> you can tell them to contact me and i'll CC the pr folks on stuff. but i expect the story will go away shortly.
2276 2011-03-21 16:37:30 <TD> the website is too boring and the fact that it's only a 20% project makes it a lot less interesting
2277 2011-03-21 16:37:43 <TD> which is fine by me
2278 2011-03-21 16:37:57 <BlueMatt> hey every media mention helps
2279 2011-03-21 16:38:15 <kiba> now, we need some kitty activism!
2280 2011-03-21 16:38:21 <justmoon> I almost fell off the chair - I read CIO regularly and there was the bitcoin mention right there :)
2281 2011-03-21 16:38:22 <TD> last thing i need is some reporter putting the article hal linked to next to my site with a headline like "Does Google support TERRORISMS?!"
2282 2011-03-21 16:38:33 hahuang65 has joined
2283 2011-03-21 16:38:35 <sipa> haha
2284 2011-03-21 16:38:39 <BlueMatt> ha yea
2285 2011-03-21 16:39:08 <BlueMatt> That would be fox news, though maybe they would like it because they hate the govt so much
2286 2011-03-21 16:39:17 <gavinandresen> Now if only we could convince headline writers to try to be, you know, accurate....
2287 2011-03-21 16:39:25 <sipa> -headline?
2288 2011-03-21 16:39:28 <BlueMatt> like that will ever happen
2289 2011-03-21 16:39:43 TD_ has joined
2290 2011-03-21 16:39:48 <justmoon> I like how reddit added the "engineer" in the title
2291 2011-03-21 16:40:00 <nanotube> gavinandresen: if they can't get it right on something as serious as japan's nuclear reactors... don't expect them to get it right on bitcoin :)
2292 2011-03-21 16:40:12 <TD> reporters are ok. they usually just need some help to get the details accurate.
2293 2011-03-21 16:40:18 <BlueMatt> justmoon: well at least someone gets it right...
2294 2011-03-21 16:40:28 <TD> the most mangled stories i've seen are always the ones where they rush it and don't wait for PR folks to get back to them
2295 2011-03-21 16:40:28 <gavinandresen> THe reporters usually don't write the headlines
2296 2011-03-21 16:40:32 <BlueMatt> TD: they got it right, just not the title
2297 2011-03-21 16:40:34 <TD> yeah
2298 2011-03-21 16:40:48 <justmoon> BlueMatt: hey, whenever I need quality journalism I go to reddit :P
2299 2011-03-21 16:40:56 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: *cough* second implementation?
2300 2011-03-21 16:40:59 <BlueMatt> justmoon: sad but true
2301 2011-03-21 16:41:02 <kiba> I wonder if the novelty of bitcoin allows adoption
2302 2011-03-21 16:41:13 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I think the pre-BitcoinJ implementations deserve some credit
2303 2011-03-21 16:41:17 <justmoon> kiba: what do you mean?
2304 2011-03-21 16:41:32 <kiba> justmoon: just the idea that bitcoin is cool and strange
2305 2011-03-21 16:41:36 <kiba> make it sensational
2306 2011-03-21 16:41:58 <justmoon> kiba: yeah, I think that's definitely something bitcoin has got going for it
2307 2011-03-21 16:41:59 <kiba> and there will be sensational/cool application of bitcoin in the future too
2308 2011-03-21 16:42:08 <kiba> PLUS
2309 2011-03-21 16:42:18 <kiba> I think we got a human interest story from China
2310 2011-03-21 16:42:28 <kiba> bitcoin in china
2311 2011-03-21 16:45:16 robotarmy has joined
2312 2011-03-21 16:47:58 <BlueMatt> devrandom: your latest version is still attempting to resolve my host name for some reason
2313 2011-03-21 16:52:44 Venatic` has joined
2314 2011-03-21 16:55:57 <TD_> luke-jr: yes, absolutely. it's hard to get all the nuance across in these interviews though. i've done similar articles some years ago, when i was doing a different open source project.
2315 2011-03-21 16:56:28 <luke-jr> TD_: in PM, gavinandresen made the point that yours might be the second to actually send tx ;)
2316 2011-03-21 16:56:34 <TD_> heh
2317 2011-03-21 16:56:43 <TD_> well i think there are a few kicking around, but they weren't announced much
2318 2011-03-21 16:57:03 <kiba> so is there going to be an android version and a developer is going to get lot of bitcoin?
2319 2011-03-21 16:57:48 <TD_> there is already an android client based on bitcoinj, but it can only run on the testnet
2320 2011-03-21 16:57:53 <TD_> it's still early days
2321 2011-03-21 16:57:53 <luke-jr> TD_: care to fill in blanks? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Infrastructure#Implementations
2322 2011-03-21 16:58:03 <BlueMatt> TD_: really?
2323 2011-03-21 16:58:05 <EvanR-work> TD_: so wait, the article i linked was microsoft PR bullshit?
2324 2011-03-21 16:58:09 <BlueMatt> name/link?
2325 2011-03-21 16:58:41 <TD_> luke-jr: bitcoinj does not export json-rpc, that's something specific to the official client AFAIK. i don't know what the "new wallet protocol" is
2326 2011-03-21 16:59:13 Minert has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2327 2011-03-21 16:59:24 <TD_> BlueMatt: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4384.msg64142#msg64142
2328 2011-03-21 16:59:29 <BlueMatt> TD_: an rpc replacement luke-jr et al are working on
2329 2011-03-21 16:59:32 <luke-jr> TD_: it's a work in progress
2330 2011-03-21 16:59:42 <luke-jr> TD_: would be glad to have more input on it
2331 2011-03-21 16:59:45 <TD_> bitcoinj is intended to be compiled in to a program
2332 2011-03-21 16:59:51 <TD_> it'll never support any rpc protocol
2333 2011-03-21 16:59:57 <luke-jr> TD_: that's bad design :P
2334 2011-03-21 17:00:26 Sidnicious has quit (Quit: sleep)
2335 2011-03-21 17:00:35 <TD_> apparently somebody else is also working on an android client
2336 2011-03-21 17:00:40 <TD_> that works differently
2337 2011-03-21 17:01:30 <luke-jr> TD_: good design, IMO: LAN router runs Node, desktop runs Wallet, phone runs GUI
2338 2011-03-21 17:01:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: my grandmother wont want to touch that design with a 10 foot stick
2339 2011-03-21 17:02:01 <EvanR-work> almost no one runs a home router which can run bitcoin
2340 2011-03-21 17:02:13 <EvanR-work> and if they do, even fewer know how
2341 2011-03-21 17:02:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: then she can just run a bundled UI with all 3 parts combined over stdio ;)
2342 2011-03-21 17:02:31 <EvanR-work> lol @ stdio
2343 2011-03-21 17:02:45 <EvanR-work> abomination
2344 2011-03-21 17:02:49 <luke-jr> no u
2345 2011-03-21 17:03:38 <luke-jr> GUI --- stdio:Wallet/SPDY ---> Wallet+Node
2346 2011-03-21 17:04:18 <molecular> luke-jr, you forgot: miner runs mining
2347 2011-03-21 17:04:27 <luke-jr> molecular: his grandmother doesn't need to mine
2348 2011-03-21 17:04:39 <molecular> his granny runs bitcoin on the router?
2349 2011-03-21 17:04:43 <luke-jr> no
2350 2011-03-21 17:04:57 <luke-jr> molecular: miner is on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Infrastructure
2351 2011-03-21 17:05:40 SykeP has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2352 2011-03-21 17:05:45 <molecular> allright
2353 2011-03-21 17:06:27 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: never built bitcoin on fedora, no.  but it should be straightforward:  look at existing mingw32*.src.rpm for 50+ examples of building windows libs on Linux.  (1) build wxwindows srpm.  (2) modify existing openssl srpm to include ecdsa, and rebuild that.
2354 2011-03-21 17:06:36 <slush> what's the url of site showing pending transactions on the network?
2355 2011-03-21 17:06:45 <molecular> is that a proposal?
2356 2011-03-21 17:06:52 <jgarzik> slush: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
2357 2011-03-21 17:07:02 <slush> thanks!
2358 2011-03-21 17:07:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: interesting, I think Ill stick with windows server 2003 though at least now that I have it working
2359 2011-03-21 17:07:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: switching to source tarballs + windows binaries?
2360 2011-03-21 17:08:11 <jgarzik> molecular: it's luke-jr's imagination :)
2361 2011-03-21 17:08:13 RomD has joined
2362 2011-03-21 17:08:19 <luke-jr> molecular: it's a logical abstraction
2363 2011-03-21 17:08:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: not sure about source tarballs, but adding windows binaries at least
2364 2011-03-21 17:08:57 <molecular> so the "wallet protocol" consists of function calls?
2365 2011-03-21 17:09:01 <molecular> currently?
2366 2011-03-21 17:09:01 Sidnicious has joined
2367 2011-03-21 17:09:37 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: and posting some form of easy to add zip or vm for people to build on msw without amazon ec2
2368 2011-03-21 17:09:43 <luke-jr> molecular: the "wallet protocol" doesn't exist, currently
2369 2011-03-21 17:10:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: please do add a source snapshot
2370 2011-03-21 17:10:06 <molecular> ok, cause that looks like "official documentation", a bit misleading?
2371 2011-03-21 17:10:06 <luke-jr> molecular: planning at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol
2372 2011-03-21 17:10:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: The Linux binaries are useless to me.  But I can point people to source tarballs, which are far more useful to a wider audience.
2373 2011-03-21 17:10:31 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: dont see that much of a point, is it really that hard to checkout a version from git (github will let you download a specific commit IIRC)
2374 2011-03-21 17:10:32 <jgarzik> source tarballs of -patched would be especially useful
2375 2011-03-21 17:10:42 kelvie_ has joined
2376 2011-03-21 17:10:57 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: link to github commit and tell people to click download
2377 2011-03-21 17:11:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's hard for Portage :P
2378 2011-03-21 17:11:08 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: <shrug>  Linux and gcc projects find git snapshots immensely useful
2379 2011-03-21 17:11:19 <jgarzik> as do I
2380 2011-03-21 17:11:32 <jgarzik> whereas the binaries are OS-specific, and not very useful even to Linux users
2381 2011-03-21 17:11:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok well for first stable -patched I think I will release source and builds
2382 2011-03-21 17:12:06 <BlueMatt> I think Ill do that with 0.3.21
2383 2011-03-21 17:12:06 <kiba> today seem to be unusually high traffic
2384 2011-03-21 17:12:21 <molecular> on bitcoin?
2385 2011-03-21 17:13:18 <jgarzik> ./bitcoin: error while loading shared libraries: libwx_gtk2u_xrc-2.9.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
2386 2011-03-21 17:13:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ^^
2387 2011-03-21 17:13:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea that is a problem...do you get that on bitcoin-mainline?
2388 2011-03-21 17:13:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yes
2389 2011-03-21 17:14:06 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: at least rename your binaries to indicate what OS is required, e.g. bitcoin-patched-ubuntu-12.tar.gz
2390 2011-03-21 17:14:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: you are the kernel dev here is there a way to fix specifically for wx?
2391 2011-03-21 17:14:30 <BlueMatt> or do we have to wait for wx 2.9 inclusions?
2392 2011-03-21 17:14:48 <kiba> molecular: forum is high traffic
2393 2011-03-21 17:14:59 <molecular> maybe because of reddit
2394 2011-03-21 17:15:04 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: wx 2.9 is a devel version, so I doubt that will get picked up for a while
2395 2011-03-21 17:15:09 Xunie has joined
2396 2011-03-21 17:15:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea though so...ok Ill rename the versions
2397 2011-03-21 17:15:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: but you're ignoring the point I keep making...  you are building OS-specific binaries, but not labelling them as such.  People need to know that the Linux binary will only work on the OS on which you're building.  Is that Debian?  Ubuntu?
2398 2011-03-21 17:16:02 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea I see it
2399 2011-03-21 17:16:09 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Ill rename them...
2400 2011-03-21 17:16:27 <BlueMatt> still not sure source tarballs are worth it, links to github work fine IMHO
2401 2011-03-21 17:17:18 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: how does a random user visiting http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/ know which specific link to click, to obtain source code for http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/bitcoin-linux-patched-i686-20110319.tar.gz ?
2402 2011-03-21 17:17:54 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2403 2011-03-21 17:18:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea...so maybe no linux nightlies? or linux nightlies for different distros (dont really want 20 vms just to build it though)
2404 2011-03-21 17:18:39 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you avoided the question again :)
2405 2011-03-21 17:19:00 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well obviously rename them to something like bitcoin-ubuntu-patched...
2406 2011-03-21 17:20:04 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: how does that tell a user how to find the source code for http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/bitcoin-linux-patched-i686-20110319.tar.gz ?
2407 2011-03-21 17:20:07 <kiba> holy macroni cow
2408 2011-03-21 17:20:11 <kiba> 401 comments on bitcoin
2409 2011-03-21 17:20:27 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: and link to github download file?
2410 2011-03-21 17:20:29 <kiba> on reddit
2411 2011-03-21 17:20:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Really, Windows binaries + source tarball work best for all.  Because people want packages, not just raw binaries, for their Linux binaries...
2412 2011-03-21 17:21:12 <jgarzik> (which is what a Windows NSIS file is, anyway)
2413 2011-03-21 17:21:21 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok fair enough...
2414 2011-03-21 17:21:51 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: so Ubuntu .deb would make sense.  that will get the dependencies right for the users.
2415 2011-03-21 17:23:00 <BlueMatt> so then Ill change it to ubuntu .deb windows package (maybe nsis) and a link to the current github download
2416 2011-03-21 17:23:02 <BlueMatt> ?
2417 2011-03-21 17:23:36 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that works
2418 2011-03-21 17:23:44 prax_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2419 2011-03-21 17:23:47 * jgarzik will remain disappointed at the lack of tarball, though
2420 2011-03-21 17:24:23 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: are you hurting for disk space?  is that the reluctance to generate tarballs?  I can host you on my box.
2421 2011-03-21 17:24:41 <jgarzik> Linux and gcc devs certainly know how to generate source tarballs from git...
2422 2011-03-21 17:24:51 <jgarzik> ...but many situations have made it clear source tarballs are easier for users
2423 2011-03-21 17:24:58 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok fine then
2424 2011-03-21 17:25:04 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: source tarball it is
2425 2011-03-21 17:25:47 SykeP has joined
2426 2011-03-21 17:26:59 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: though seriously are we a big enough community to need them?
2427 2011-03-21 17:27:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if we're big enough to get Debian packages, we're big enough for source releases :P
2428 2011-03-21 17:31:57 <kiba> I see lot of development happening in bitcoin
2429 2011-03-21 17:32:13 <kiba> but why does it seem to take forever for a new release to happen?
2430 2011-03-21 17:32:15 <luke-jr> anyone care to comment/critique https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol#DRAFT_0
2431 2011-03-21 17:32:25 <luke-jr> kiba: there was just a new release last month
2432 2011-03-21 17:32:37 <jgarzik> kiba: we have a great many releases in a single year.  it doesn't take forever, oh impatient one ;-)
2433 2011-03-21 17:33:01 <luke-jr> kiba must not notice Linux releases
2434 2011-03-21 17:33:02 <luke-jr> :p
2435 2011-03-21 17:33:06 <BlueMatt> do we have a list of things to be fixed for the next release?
2436 2011-03-21 17:33:22 <luke-jr> jgarzik: any idea if the subcent fix has been merged yet?
2437 2011-03-21 17:33:27 <kiba> there's like two bugs for next release
2438 2011-03-21 17:33:54 <jgarzik> luke-jr: it hasn't.  not even a pull request, AFAIK.
2439 2011-03-21 17:35:28 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/85
2440 2011-03-21 17:35:33 <luke-jr> looks like it was merged a week ago
2441 2011-03-21 17:37:22 <jgarzik> luke-jr: ah yes, that patch.  yep, it's upstream.
2442 2011-03-21 17:37:28 * xelister notices jgarzik/luke-jr mentioning NSIS
2443 2011-03-21 17:37:34 <xelister> funny, Im working with nsis just now
2444 2011-03-21 17:37:50 <luke-jr> xelister: huh? wasn't that months ago? :P
2445 2011-03-21 17:37:59 <xelister> months ago?
2446 2011-03-21 17:38:05 <luke-jr> when we mentioend it
2447 2011-03-21 17:38:12 <xelister> [18:20] <jgarzik> (which is what a Windows NSIS file is, anyway)
2448 2011-03-21 17:38:48 <jgarzik> tcatm: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ is returning "server busy"
2449 2011-03-21 17:39:09 <jgarzik> tcatm: but anyway...  have you built an RPC to dump TX cache?  if not, I was thinking of doing so.
2450 2011-03-21 17:39:35 <tcatm> works fine here
2451 2011-03-21 17:39:55 <tcatm> can you try to reload the page?
2452 2011-03-21 17:40:00 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I have a branch that shows tx cache and accepted-for-block tx/size counts in getinfo
2453 2011-03-21 17:40:05 <luke-jr> in case you might want it
2454 2011-03-21 17:41:05 <jgarzik> tcatm: http://gtf.org/garzik/misc/bitcoincharts-screen.png
2455 2011-03-21 17:41:16 <tcatm> I don't use RPC at all. Instead I wrote a django app that keeps the blockchain with all transaction and handles chain reorgs
2456 2011-03-21 17:41:34 <jgarzik> tcatm: second reload works, after ~5 second pause.
2457 2011-03-21 17:42:55 <tcatm> mhm maybe you were the first to view all >1000 unconfirmed tx and produced mostly cache misses
2458 2011-03-21 17:43:17 <tcatm> oh now I get server busy, too
2459 2011-03-21 17:46:31 <Aciid> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/g7zlw/google_engineer_releases_open_source_bitcoin/
2460 2011-03-21 17:48:42 gr0gmint has joined
2461 2011-03-21 17:51:51 <tcatm> jgarzik: It should work better now. I improved caching.
2462 2011-03-21 17:52:41 <xelister> WHO EVER MAKES PROGRAM THAT INSERTS INVISIBLE BOM MARKERS INTO TEXT FILES
2463 2011-03-21 17:52:58 <tcatm> actually, looks like it got worse
2464 2011-03-21 17:53:01 <xelister> should be beaten to death by a pack of dislodged fired former Adobe developers on cocain hunger
2465 2011-03-21 17:53:31 <tcatm> still nice to see that a cpu heavy part of a django site doesn't slow down other parts (like the charts view)
2466 2011-03-21 17:53:51 glassresistor has joined
2467 2011-03-21 17:54:47 <joepie91> errr.
2468 2011-03-21 17:54:48 <joepie91> http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/
2469 2011-03-21 17:54:54 <joepie91> who made that massive amount of transactions
2470 2011-03-21 17:54:56 <joepie91> o_O
2471 2011-03-21 17:55:24 <genjix> bitcoin has been on reddit
2472 2011-03-21 17:55:24 <tcatm> spamming or pool
2473 2011-03-21 17:56:05 <genjix> oh the continuous line. heh.
2474 2011-03-21 17:56:09 <joepie91> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
2475 2011-03-21 17:56:12 <Aciid> genjix: was it this http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/
2476 2011-03-21 17:56:12 <joepie91> this is ridiculous
2477 2011-03-21 17:56:13 <tcatm> joepie91: see http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ (if it works, if not, reload until it works)
2478 2011-03-21 17:56:13 <joepie91> lol
2479 2011-03-21 17:56:14 <Aciid> you were using
2480 2011-03-21 17:56:19 <joepie91> ye, I just saw
2481 2011-03-21 17:56:25 <joepie91> I'm wondering what is happening
2482 2011-03-21 17:56:35 <joepie91> it appears someone is constantly forwarding tons of payments through a bunch of addresses
2483 2011-03-21 17:56:36 <genjix> Aciid: for logins?
2484 2011-03-21 17:56:41 <Aciid> yes
2485 2011-03-21 17:56:50 <joepie91> DoS attempt? or just a legit massive transfer?
2486 2011-03-21 17:56:53 <Aciid> I think ill build myself a firewall with that
2487 2011-03-21 17:57:04 <Aciid> joepie91: yesterday DDOS attempt, but as we know it won't do a shit
2488 2011-03-21 17:57:06 <genjix> no, i use OpenID. PHP has a library called LightOpenID. There's an example packaged with it showing google logins.
2489 2011-03-21 17:57:11 <Aciid> joepie91: it was 0.02 per transfer
2490 2011-03-21 17:57:12 <joepie91> so it seems :P
2491 2011-03-21 17:57:18 <genjix> you can find the OID uri's from wiki
2492 2011-03-21 17:57:30 <Aciid> genjix: I must look into it. thanks!
2493 2011-03-21 17:57:32 warweed has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2494 2011-03-21 17:57:52 <genjix> Aciid: np. the examples should be adequate, but let me know if u need anything
2495 2011-03-21 17:58:11 Zenith77 has joined
2496 2011-03-21 18:00:12 <joepie91> jesus
2497 2011-03-21 18:00:16 <joepie91> reading that whirlpool thread
2498 2011-03-21 18:00:22 <joepie91> if I've even seen a case of "butthurt"...
2499 2011-03-21 18:00:28 <Zenith77> links?
2500 2011-03-21 18:00:34 <genjix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiww4OTA194
2501 2011-03-21 18:00:58 <joepie91> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1663664&p=-1&#bottom
2502 2011-03-21 18:01:01 <joepie91> SirFlibble, mostly
2503 2011-03-21 18:01:12 <joepie91> .. not sure why #bottom is in there
2504 2011-03-21 18:02:06 <joepie91> "80c to the dollar?
2505 2011-03-21 18:02:06 <joepie91> Nah, think I'll stick to Paypal and Alertpay for the time being!"
2506 2011-03-21 18:02:08 <joepie91> err....
2507 2011-03-21 18:02:24 <joepie91> ... is he trying to imply that BTC == $?
2508 2011-03-21 18:02:30 <joepie91> or am I missing something here?
2509 2011-03-21 18:02:57 gr0gmint has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2510 2011-03-21 18:03:42 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
2511 2011-03-21 18:04:08 <Zenith77> you know
2512 2011-03-21 18:04:14 <Zenith77> I hate when people say "it's backed up by gold'
2513 2011-03-21 18:04:20 <Zenith77> I think ask, "what is the gold backed up by"
2514 2011-03-21 18:04:25 <Zenith77> then*
2515 2011-03-21 18:04:29 <joepie91> heh
2516 2011-03-21 18:04:30 <joepie91> well...
2517 2011-03-21 18:04:33 <joepie91> the quote I made above
2518 2011-03-21 18:04:41 hahuang65 has quit (lappy!~hahuang65@209.129.244.250|)
2519 2011-03-21 18:04:52 <joepie91> if he is really trying to say "1btc is worth 0.8$ so it's a shitty currency"
2520 2011-03-21 18:04:58 <joepie91> then... that sort of tops what you mentioned in stupidity
2521 2011-03-21 18:04:59 <joepie91> lol
2522 2011-03-21 18:05:10 <joepie91> then again, I may be misunderstanding :P
2523 2011-03-21 18:05:10 <Zenith77> :P
2524 2011-03-21 18:05:16 <Zenith77> that is what he's saying I believe
2525 2011-03-21 18:05:20 <joepie91> :/
2526 2011-03-21 18:05:22 <joepie91> srsly
2527 2011-03-21 18:05:22 <genjix> this is all you need to know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiww4OTA194
2528 2011-03-21 18:05:24 <genjix> wahow
2529 2011-03-21 18:05:28 <joepie91> my euro's are worth like 1.3$ each
2530 2011-03-21 18:05:32 <joepie91> does that mean $ is shitty?
2531 2011-03-21 18:05:33 <joepie91> >.<
2532 2011-03-21 18:05:34 <genjix> wahow
2533 2011-03-21 18:05:38 <Zenith77> obviousl USD isn't a real currency joepie91
2534 2011-03-21 18:05:43 <genjix> wahow
2535 2011-03-21 18:05:49 <joepie91> I'm tempted to say no real currencies exist
2536 2011-03-21 18:05:53 <joepie91> :P
2537 2011-03-21 18:06:01 <genjix> wahow
2538 2011-03-21 18:06:21 <Zenith77> the value of currency is the faith people put in it, that what they are receiving can be used for other services/goods provided by other people
2539 2011-03-21 18:06:22 <molecular> weehooo
2540 2011-03-21 18:06:28 <genjix> wahow
2541 2011-03-21 18:06:31 <Zenith77> genjix,
2542 2011-03-21 18:06:33 <Zenith77> Stop that
2543 2011-03-21 18:06:34 <Zenith77> :P
2544 2011-03-21 18:06:35 <genjix> boom boom
2545 2011-03-21 18:06:35 <Blitzboom> WAIOW
2546 2011-03-21 18:06:39 <Zenith77> oh god
2547 2011-03-21 18:06:48 <genjix> cmon guys
2548 2011-03-21 18:06:54 kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2549 2011-03-21 18:06:56 <genjix> let me hear u say wahow
2550 2011-03-21 18:07:08 * Zenith77 tapes genjix's hands together
2551 2011-03-21 18:07:17 <molecular> I'll say we..w for 0.01 BTC
2552 2011-03-21 18:07:27 <joepie91> genjix.
2553 2011-03-21 18:07:31 <joepie91> don't... do that again
2554 2011-03-21 18:07:33 <joepie91> that was painful to watch
2555 2011-03-21 18:07:45 <genjix> i love it
2556 2011-03-21 18:07:46 <joepie91> lol
2557 2011-03-21 18:07:59 <joepie91> *cough* rebecca black
2558 2011-03-21 18:08:20 <BlueMatt> oh god
2559 2011-03-21 18:08:27 <BlueMatt> who the fuck decided that should be published
2560 2011-03-21 18:09:14 <Blitzboom> three whole minutes of this shit
2561 2011-03-21 18:09:29 <Blitzboom> i can’t believe she can bear that
2562 2011-03-21 18:09:33 <genjix> it grows on you.
2563 2011-03-21 18:09:47 <BlueMatt> genjix: yea...no
2564 2011-03-21 18:09:49 <xelister> wahow \o/
2565 2011-03-21 18:09:55 <genjix> wahow
2566 2011-03-21 18:10:00 <xelister> wahow -o-
2567 2011-03-21 18:10:12 <genjix> wahow /o/
2568 2011-03-21 18:10:38 <joepie91> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0
2569 2011-03-21 18:10:38 <joepie91> 2. turn on automatic comment updates
2570 2011-03-21 18:10:38 <joepie91> 3. wtf
2571 2011-03-21 18:10:48 <xelister> wahow ☉⏝⚆
2572 2011-03-21 18:10:58 <BlueMatt> lol "This video is not available in your country"
2573 2011-03-21 18:11:06 <BlueMatt> god media companies are such fails
2574 2011-03-21 18:11:06 <Blitzboom> bwahahaha BlueMatt
2575 2011-03-21 18:11:09 <joepie91> ark music factory is a apparently a producer for rich parents to let their kids "star" in a music video
2576 2011-03-21 18:11:55 <genjix> ಠ‿ಠ wahow
2577 2011-03-21 18:12:04 <BlueMatt> explains why they publish that crap
2578 2011-03-21 18:12:09 <Blitzboom> ಠ_ರೃ
2579 2011-03-21 18:12:10 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2580 2011-03-21 18:12:15 <xelister> genjix: !
2581 2011-03-21 18:12:17 <xelister> genjix: lets make a bet
2582 2011-03-21 18:12:25 <genjix> ʘ‿ʘ
2583 2011-03-21 18:12:29 <genjix> boom boom
2584 2011-03-21 18:12:33 <joepie91> also.
2585 2011-03-21 18:12:37 hahuang65 has joined
2586 2011-03-21 18:12:38 <xelister> genjix: who ever sends mahow more times before next block wins 1 BTC. go?
2587 2011-03-21 18:12:39 <joepie91> the lyrics
2588 2011-03-21 18:12:41 <joepie91> are dumb.
2589 2011-03-21 18:12:50 <joepie91> inb4 excess flood
2590 2011-03-21 18:12:57 <xelister> genjix: deal?
2591 2011-03-21 18:12:59 <genjix> xelister: no you have a script :p
2592 2011-03-21 18:13:01 <BlueMatt> xelister: genjix not here
2593 2011-03-21 18:13:03 <xelister> I dont have
2594 2011-03-21 18:13:17 <xelister> ready? <_<
2595 2011-03-21 18:13:18 <joepie91> okay.
2596 2011-03-21 18:13:26 <joepie91> I have a bounty, sort of
2597 2011-03-21 18:13:28 <BlueMatt> in #weliketofloodbitcoin please
2598 2011-03-21 18:13:38 <joepie91> whoever can prove with a video
2599 2011-03-21 18:13:44 <xelister> wahow ☉⏝⚆    (Im winning 1 BTC from genjix,lol)
2600 2011-03-21 18:13:45 <joepie91> that he listens to friday for an hour
2601 2011-03-21 18:13:46 <joepie91> on repeat
2602 2011-03-21 18:13:46 <xelister> wahow ☉⏝⚆    (Im winning 1 BTC from genjix,lol)
2603 2011-03-21 18:13:47 <joepie91> will get 5BTC
2604 2011-03-21 18:14:04 <joepie91> deal? :D
2605 2011-03-21 18:14:14 <BlueMatt> joepie91: no where near worth it
2606 2011-03-21 18:14:17 * joepie91 doubts anyone is going to try that
2607 2011-03-21 18:14:18 <joepie91> lol
2608 2011-03-21 18:14:21 <joepie91> expected that response
2609 2011-03-21 18:14:29 <genjix> joepie91: how about if i left skype on?
2610 2011-03-21 18:14:33 <genjix> i dont give a fuck
2611 2011-03-21 18:14:43 <joepie91> err... I can't watch for an hour... I have work to do xD
2612 2011-03-21 18:14:45 <joepie91> therefore recording :P
2613 2011-03-21 18:14:57 <xelister> :P
2614 2011-03-21 18:15:03 <genjix> cant be asked to setup webcam
2615 2011-03-21 18:15:14 <xelister> hey speaking of webcamera, who wants 10 btc :>
2616 2011-03-21 18:15:16 <genjix> but let me hear ya say wahow
2617 2011-03-21 18:15:22 <xelister> wahow ☉⏝⚆
2618 2011-03-21 18:15:23 <BlueMatt> xelister: who doesnt?
2619 2011-03-21 18:15:29 <ovatork> xelister, need me to pose for you?
2620 2011-03-21 18:15:40 <joepie91> lol, xelister, what are you looking for
2621 2011-03-21 18:15:40 <joepie91> :P
2622 2011-03-21 18:15:51 * joepie91 brb pizza get
2623 2011-03-21 18:16:40 <genjix> so annoying when yoiu leave apt updating for the whole day and come back to find it stopped on
2624 2011-03-21 18:16:47 <genjix> blaa blaa blaa Y/n?
2625 2011-03-21 18:16:51 <Zenith77> -y
2626 2011-03-21 18:16:53 <Zenith77> :p
2627 2011-03-21 18:17:13 <tcatm> jgarzik: I *think* it is fixed now. My code crashed on orphaned transactions.
2628 2011-03-21 18:17:24 <glassresistor> im trying to construct a form in tests to overwrite an existing entry, as in i create a model instance save it then want to construct a form to overwrite the model entry not create a new one, i've tried include pk or id in the post but that isn't working
2629 2011-03-21 18:18:14 M_ has joined
2630 2011-03-21 18:18:49 <M_> ;; help
2631 2011-03-21 18:18:50 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2632 2011-03-21 18:18:55 <xelister> wahooooooooow ☉⏝⚆
2633 2011-03-21 18:19:20 <xelister> so peacefull channel
2634 2011-03-21 18:19:27 <xelister> althoug.. I do see 5 bans, why where they given
2635 2011-03-21 18:19:59 <Zenith77> is there any comprehensive guide to bitcoin mining or just w/e tad bits of information you can find on the forums?
2636 2011-03-21 18:20:11 <luke-jr> Zenith77: what video card?
2637 2011-03-21 18:20:37 <Zenith77> I have a GTX 260 on my desktop running OS X (can also boot into win 7 or ubuntu)
2638 2011-03-21 18:20:58 <Zenith77> or a Geforce GTX 360m
2639 2011-03-21 18:21:02 <BlueMatt> osx's ocl implementation kinda sucks
2640 2011-03-21 18:21:07 <BlueMatt> by that I mean is really slow
2641 2011-03-21 18:21:29 <Zenith77> I thought it was supposed to be pretty good?
2642 2011-03-21 18:21:36 <Zenith77> (I haven't really looked into that much)
2643 2011-03-21 18:21:45 <Zenith77> Or is that supposed to be on the upcoming lion release?
2644 2011-03-21 18:21:56 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: I dont know really for sure, but from what Ive heard from other people on here it really sucks
2645 2011-03-21 18:21:58 <luke-jr> Zenith77: nvidia is garbage basically
2646 2011-03-21 18:22:02 <Zenith77> Either way, should I run windows or ubuntu in that case
2647 2011-03-21 18:22:06 <Zenith77> :/
2648 2011-03-21 18:22:24 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: though nvidia sucks for mining because it doesnt have one or two specific instructions which are really useful
2649 2011-03-21 18:22:39 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: I prefer linux but...its up to you
2650 2011-03-21 18:22:39 <Zenith77> not even in their newer cards?
2651 2011-03-21 18:23:00 <luke-jr> Zenith77: nvidia's best card can do 120 MH/s
2652 2011-03-21 18:23:00 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: no its not that they are worse per se, but are mising a few key instructions which are used for mining
2653 2011-03-21 18:23:07 <BlueMatt> so they suck for mining
2654 2011-03-21 18:23:18 <Zenith77> hrm
2655 2011-03-21 18:23:24 <luke-jr> Zenith77: about equivalent to a Radeon 5750
2656 2011-03-21 18:23:33 <luke-jr> Zenith77: Radeon 5970 is over 5 times faster
2657 2011-03-21 18:23:35 <Zenith77> so much for CUDA and Bitcoin in that case :P
2658 2011-03-21 18:23:54 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: still doable, but maybe not electricity-cost efficient
2659 2011-03-21 18:24:10 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: isn't 5770 the minimum for electricity-efficiency now?
2660 2011-03-21 18:24:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I have no idea what kind of power a gtx 260 uses
2661 2011-03-21 18:24:41 <luke-jr> wiki sez 0.242 MH/W
2662 2011-03-21 18:24:56 <luke-jr> 182 W
2663 2011-03-21 18:25:13 <Zenith77> I know a lot of people are doing it as an investment/return kind of deal
2664 2011-03-21 18:25:13 <luke-jr> Radeon 5760 is only 86 W
2665 2011-03-21 18:25:16 <BlueMatt> ah, well it depends on the exchange rate (which is so volatile...) and power costs which change a lot depending on where you are
2666 2011-03-21 18:25:19 <Zenith77> I'm just interested in tinkering around with bitcoin
2667 2011-03-21 18:25:25 <luke-jr> Zenith77: that was a couple of months ago :p
2668 2011-03-21 18:25:39 <luke-jr> I don't think starting now, you can get much return if any
2669 2011-03-21 18:26:11 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: go buy some - help them grow by supporting the market
2670 2011-03-21 18:26:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you can get money into MtGox, it has a big sale :P
2671 2011-03-21 18:26:36 <Zenith77> luke-jr, even with the fancy smancy bitcoin pools?
2672 2011-03-21 18:26:53 <luke-jr> Zenith77: without pools, minimum is Radeon 5850 ;)
2673 2011-03-21 18:27:02 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: pools dont increase your output just changes the rate of pay
2674 2011-03-21 18:27:08 <BlueMatt> (and take a percent or two)
2675 2011-03-21 18:27:14 <Zenith77> hrm
2676 2011-03-21 18:27:15 <luke-jr> oh, what BlueMatt said too
2677 2011-03-21 18:27:23 <luke-jr> but to effectively mine without pools, you need 5850
2678 2011-03-21 18:27:32 <luke-jr> for 4 more days
2679 2011-03-21 18:27:35 <luke-jr> then it gets a little easier
2680 2011-03-21 18:28:31 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,stats
2681 2011-03-21 18:28:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114438 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 473 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 17 hours, 4 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67374.17854957
2682 2011-03-21 18:28:34 <joepie91> know what... I wouldn't be surprised if the people behind these rent-a-botnet services are going to sell bitcoin hashing power in the future, based on botnets
2683 2011-03-21 18:29:11 <luke-jr> joepie91: they already have I think
2684 2011-03-21 18:29:19 <joepie91> mhh... not very large scale I think
2685 2011-03-21 18:29:22 <luke-jr> MM
2686 2011-03-21 18:29:22 <joepie91> at least
2687 2011-03-21 18:29:26 <joepie91> not that I have seen
2688 2011-03-21 18:29:30 <luke-jr> mystery miner
2689 2011-03-21 18:29:41 <joepie91> yes, but I think that was someone who exploited his botnet himself
2690 2011-03-21 18:29:45 <joepie91> not renting out bitcoin mining, so to say
2691 2011-03-21 18:29:50 <joepie91> not to others
2692 2011-03-21 18:30:01 <joepie91> I think that was basically a solo hit and run job :)
2693 2011-03-21 18:30:22 <joepie91> rent a "normal" botnet access for a while, deploy a miner script on all of them, mine for a while, then run off with the profits
2694 2011-03-21 18:30:23 <BlueMatt> joepie91: either you sell bitcoin mining power for more than the output or you use it yourself?
2695 2011-03-21 18:30:36 <joepie91> err, I have no idea how this stuff works
2696 2011-03-21 18:30:44 <joepie91> but I know that for example vladimir is selling mining contracts
2697 2011-03-21 18:30:55 <joepie91> from what I have read he actually colocates things or sth
2698 2011-03-21 18:31:04 <joepie91> it wouldn't surprise me if a botnet operator did the same, but with bots
2699 2011-03-21 18:31:38 <luke-jr> makes no sense to colo a mining rig
2700 2011-03-21 18:31:45 <luke-jr> could just run it at home
2701 2011-03-21 18:31:47 <joepie91> ye, I dunno how his stuff works :P
2702 2011-03-21 18:31:54 <joepie91> I just read sth about colocation
2703 2011-03-21 18:31:55 <joepie91> in his thread
2704 2011-03-21 18:32:14 <joepie91> also, selling botnet mining contracts would have an advantage over mining yourself and selling off the bitcoins
2705 2011-03-21 18:32:24 <joepie91> you would directly get paid in a "real" currency
2706 2011-03-21 18:32:31 <joepie91> and don't have to deal with the exchange rate fluctuation
2707 2011-03-21 18:32:34 <luke-jr> no
2708 2011-03-21 18:32:37 <joepie91> nor do you have to wait for people to buy it
2709 2011-03-21 18:32:39 <luke-jr> you would want to get paid in bitcoins
2710 2011-03-21 18:32:45 <luke-jr> real currency can be traced ;)
2711 2011-03-21 18:32:56 <joepie91> mhh... that, too, can be made almost untraceable
2712 2011-03-21 18:33:00 <joepie91> it just needs more work
2713 2011-03-21 18:33:02 <joepie91> (and a cut)
2714 2011-03-21 18:33:43 <joepie91> good old strawmans etc
2715 2011-03-21 18:37:19 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2716 2011-03-21 18:37:37 <luke-jr> more tx spam -.-
2717 2011-03-21 18:37:40 paul0 has joined
2718 2011-03-21 18:37:46 <luke-jr> 1935 pooled tx
2719 2011-03-21 18:37:54 <luke-jr> this is why I require fees
2720 2011-03-21 18:38:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: starting to come around to your idea recently...
2721 2011-03-21 18:39:24 <BlueMatt> though maybe accept txes with both outputs large instead of just requiring fees altogether
2722 2011-03-21 18:39:51 <luke-jr> if you want to look or merge, my policies are at git://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin.git policy
2723 2011-03-21 18:46:11 <luke-jr> 2005… :x
2724 2011-03-21 18:47:42 <luke-jr> interestingly, 31 of them are accepted into my block
2725 2011-03-21 18:48:01 <xelister> luke-jr: charge 1 btc for each and be super-rich ;)
2726 2011-03-21 18:48:19 <luke-jr> xelister: nah, then I just wouldn't accept thme
2727 2011-03-21 18:48:21 <Zenith77> so is it not worth to mine in a pool?
2728 2011-03-21 18:48:22 <xelister> btw, is anything stopping all big miners to saying like "screw-you, we charge 10 btc tx
2729 2011-03-21 18:48:33 <BlueMatt> xelister: no
2730 2011-03-21 18:48:38 <Zenith77> woah, I'm way behind
2731 2011-03-21 18:48:40 <luke-jr> Zenith77: not unless you have 5770 or better, and worse than 5850
2732 2011-03-21 18:48:47 <BlueMatt> xelister: but you wouldnt accept any txes because no one would pay
2733 2011-03-21 18:48:54 <luke-jr> xelister: no
2734 2011-03-21 18:49:00 <Zenith77> hrm, I was thinking about buying a new graphics card anways :D
2735 2011-03-21 18:49:08 <Zenith77> this just might be a good excuse to go out and grab one
2736 2011-03-21 18:49:09 <luke-jr> Zenith77: good luck
2737 2011-03-21 18:49:09 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: not worth it unless you are concerned about just getting 50 btc rarely instead of 1 btc more common
2738 2011-03-21 18:49:32 <luke-jr> Zenith77: no video card today is worth buying for bitcoin mining IMO
2739 2011-03-21 18:49:38 <xelister> luke-jr: yes
2740 2011-03-21 18:49:42 <Zenith77> well like I said..."excuse"
2741 2011-03-21 18:49:44 <Zenith77> :P
2742 2011-03-21 18:49:45 <luke-jr> :P
2743 2011-03-21 18:49:52 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
2744 2011-03-21 18:50:01 <Zenith77> I just find the whole thing interesting
2745 2011-03-21 18:50:21 datagutt has joined
2746 2011-03-21 18:50:23 skeledrew has joined
2747 2011-03-21 18:50:32 striped has joined
2748 2011-03-21 18:51:31 <luke-jr> Zenith77: want to buy some? I have high rates! :P
2749 2011-03-21 18:52:00 <luke-jr> Zenith77: but if you drive a bit, I can offer a discount
2750 2011-03-21 18:52:05 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
2751 2011-03-21 18:52:20 <luke-jr> Cryptoman might be a better option though
2752 2011-03-21 18:52:25 <luke-jr> he's in Palm Beach
2753 2011-03-21 18:56:53 MatrixFrog has joined
2754 2011-03-21 18:57:08 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2755 2011-03-21 18:58:23 rli has left ()
2756 2011-03-21 18:59:53 <SykeP> wow, tx queue now over 2000
2757 2011-03-21 19:00:52 <Zenith77> luke-jr, drive?
2758 2011-03-21 19:01:06 <Zenith77> awww someone already has an android application out
2759 2011-03-21 19:01:20 <Zenith77> thought I'd be the first to the punch
2760 2011-03-21 19:01:22 <Zenith77> guess not
2761 2011-03-21 19:01:36 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc
2762 2011-03-21 19:01:43 <genjix> make some proposals but dont send money
2763 2011-03-21 19:01:53 <genjix> (i will clear database before release)
2764 2011-03-21 19:01:59 <genjix> see if you can break it.
2765 2011-03-21 19:03:35 Validus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2766 2011-03-21 19:07:08 <luke-jr> Zenith77: I am north of Tampa
2767 2011-03-21 19:07:19 Validus has joined
2768 2011-03-21 19:08:06 <luke-jr> genjix: Google login doesn't work at all
2769 2011-03-21 19:08:52 <genjix> yep im fixing a problem with that now
2770 2011-03-21 19:09:44 <xelister> GUIDE TO STABLE ATI BINARY DRIVER
2771 2011-03-21 19:09:47 <xelister> Part 1
2772 2011-03-21 19:09:50 <Teslah> genjix: openid didn't work either
2773 2011-03-21 19:10:06 <xelister> - Refrain from using computer in fancy ways, e.g. moving around the mouse cursor
2774 2011-03-21 19:10:11 <genjix> yep hold on "temporarily disabled" :p
2775 2011-03-21 19:10:55 TOngY has joined
2776 2011-03-21 19:10:56 <necrodearia> "I'm a little concerned with how secure bitcoins are" -- Can someone reply to this statement?
2777 2011-03-21 19:11:08 <necrodearia> e.g. what is there to be concerned about in regards to security?
2778 2011-03-21 19:11:11 <xelister> necrodearia: they are not very anonymous if you don't take extra care
2779 2011-03-21 19:11:12 <necrodearia> if anything
2780 2011-03-21 19:11:23 <forrestv> necrodearia, you have to protect your wallet file ...
2781 2011-03-21 19:11:33 <necrodearia> TOngY, Feel free to ask additional questions here also.
2782 2011-03-21 19:11:38 <genjix> they're too easy to spend.
2783 2011-03-21 19:11:46 Validus has quit (Client Quit)
2784 2011-03-21 19:12:49 <TOngY> Can the value of bitcoins fluctuate like the value a country's current?
2785 2011-03-21 19:13:04 <TOngY> currency?
2786 2011-03-21 19:13:06 <forrestv> TOngY, yes
2787 2011-03-21 19:13:17 <Blitzboom> value of bitcoins is determined solely by supply and demand
2788 2011-03-21 19:13:21 <Blitzboom> so yes, it can fluctuate
2789 2011-03-21 19:13:38 <Blitzboom> the supply rate is known though
2790 2011-03-21 19:14:12 <TOngY> under what program/regulatory system does bitcoins currency determine?
2791 2011-03-21 19:15:53 <necrodearia> TOngY, hmm, what do you mean exactly?
2792 2011-03-21 19:16:04 <MacRohard> the exchange operators may be subject to regulation depending on where they're located
2793 2011-03-21 19:16:16 <genjix> every week our project leader allocates new bitcoins to the coders who wrote the most lines.
2794 2011-03-21 19:16:35 <necrodearia> genjix, For informational purposes, who is your project leader or what project?
2795 2011-03-21 19:16:47 <MatrixFrog> the most lines? or the best code? :)
2796 2011-03-21 19:16:48 <genjix> im talking about bitcoin
2797 2011-03-21 19:16:57 <MacRohard> i'd assume that was a joke
2798 2011-03-21 19:17:11 <necrodearia> yeah, try not to provide misinformation...
2799 2011-03-21 19:17:19 <MatrixFrog> Mac: perhaps so. my joke-detection senses are probably a bit weak today
2800 2011-03-21 19:17:22 <necrodearia> elitism ftl
2801 2011-03-21 19:17:46 Validus has joined
2802 2011-03-21 19:18:31 TOngY has left ()
2803 2011-03-21 19:18:46 <MacRohard> i can see bitcoin being used to pay people 'off the record' for a variety of activities and programming might be one of the first ones
2804 2011-03-21 19:19:14 <MatrixFrog> considering that bitcoin (afaik) is only used by geek-types right now, i think you're probably right
2805 2011-03-21 19:19:43 sabalaba has joined
2806 2011-03-21 19:21:51 <Blitzboom> at twitter: Do you use bitcoin? Have you generated any. not one coin yet and been at it for weeks. getting a fedup with it
2807 2011-03-21 19:22:10 <Blitzboom> will that cpu-miner be taken out of the client already?
2808 2011-03-21 19:22:37 SeriousWorm has joined
2809 2011-03-21 19:23:12 <MatrixFrog> it could make sense for it to be a separate program
2810 2011-03-21 19:23:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: sheesh.  we should drop wxGTK and just use GTK directly.  They both work on Windows and Linux natively, and GTK < wxGTK (in both LOC and build pain)
2811 2011-03-21 19:23:36 <MatrixFrog> to use bitcoin, click HERE.
2812 2011-03-21 19:23:36 <MatrixFrog> if you have a super fast GPU and want to mine bitcoins, click HERE instead
2813 2011-03-21 19:23:38 <MatrixFrog> kind of a thing
2814 2011-03-21 19:23:47 * jgarzik volunteers luke-jr to write it
2815 2011-03-21 19:25:18 <Zenith77> luke-jr, I don't understand why I would drive to tampa :P for bitcoins, am I missing a major concept here?
2816 2011-03-21 19:25:33 CyanDynamo has joined
2817 2011-03-21 19:26:02 <luke-jr> Zenith77: "how to get bitcoins"
2818 2011-03-21 19:27:43 <luke-jr> jgarzik: GTK sucks
2819 2011-03-21 19:27:55 <luke-jr> GTK does not work in a Qt environment natively
2820 2011-03-21 19:28:06 <Zenith77> luke-jr, wouldn;t I just give you my address/ip
2821 2011-03-21 19:28:28 <luke-jr> jgarzik: Qt works in every* environment natively, and I (plus genjix) do already have such a client
2822 2011-03-21 19:28:52 <luke-jr> Zenith77: if I wanted to donate them
2823 2011-03-21 19:28:57 <luke-jr> Zenith77: or pay you for something
2824 2011-03-21 19:29:17 <luke-jr> Zenith77: but if you want to buy bitcoins from me, you'll get a better rate handing me cash in person
2825 2011-03-21 19:29:41 <Zenith77> hrm I see
2826 2011-03-21 19:30:06 <luke-jr> Zenith77: like I said though, there's a guy in Palm Beach whcih is much closer to Miami
2827 2011-03-21 19:30:39 <luke-jr> Zenith77: *or* you can buy online, but you won't get as good a rate since it's risky
2828 2011-03-21 19:30:45 TD_ has joined
2829 2011-03-21 19:31:20 <Zenith77> This probably doesn't matter, but my host name says miami even though I'm in WPB :P
2830 2011-03-21 19:32:32 <luke-jr> WPB?
2831 2011-03-21 19:32:41 <Zenith77> west palm beach
2832 2011-03-21 19:33:17 <luke-jr> Zenith77: ah, so is Cryptoman :P
2833 2011-03-21 19:33:31 <Zenith77> we'll open a bitcoin bank!
2834 2011-03-21 19:33:32 <luke-jr> http://tradebitcoin.com/
2835 2011-03-21 19:33:43 <Zenith77> or maybe just a kiosk
2836 2011-03-21 19:34:17 <luke-jr> or just meet up with people on tradebitcoin.com :P
2837 2011-03-21 19:34:56 <Zenith77> :P
2838 2011-03-21 19:34:56 ducki2p has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2839 2011-03-21 19:36:47 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2840 2011-03-21 19:36:50 <genjix> OK!
2841 2011-03-21 19:36:59 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
2842 2011-03-21 19:37:01 <genjix> try now :)
2843 2011-03-21 19:38:33 <Aciid> shows query info on update
2844 2011-03-21 19:39:01 <joepie91> bountry tracker?
2845 2011-03-21 19:39:38 <genjix> Aciid: ?
2846 2011-03-21 19:40:13 <genjix> im gonna clear the database before releasing it tomorrow barring any problems :)
2847 2011-03-21 19:40:17 <Aciid> aahh =9
2848 2011-03-21 19:40:19 <Aciid> ok then
2849 2011-03-21 19:40:32 <genjix> source: http://gitorious.org/btfeature
2850 2011-03-21 19:40:48 <Aciid> could you keep it opensource & pushed while it's still open?
2851 2011-03-21 19:40:57 <Aciid> would be a great start for people starting with bitcoin projects
2852 2011-03-21 19:41:02 <genjix> yes ofc
2853 2011-03-21 19:41:05 <Aciid> <3
2854 2011-03-21 19:41:08 <genjix> all code i write is open always
2855 2011-03-21 19:41:29 <genjix> http://gitorious.org/intersango/
2856 2011-03-21 19:41:35 <genjix> that's the exchange code
2857 2011-03-21 19:41:38 <luke-jr> genjix: why not make it a repo under the bitcoin umbrella?
2858 2011-03-21 19:42:07 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/btfeature http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/intersango
2859 2011-03-21 19:42:09 <luke-jr> liket hat
2860 2011-03-21 19:42:31 <luke-jr> so people can just go to http://gitorious.org/bitcoin to see all the bitcoin-related stuff
2861 2011-03-21 19:43:16 <genjix> luke-jr: because git treats repos as blobs
2862 2011-03-21 19:43:29 <genjix> so it's kind of awkward
2863 2011-03-21 19:43:41 <luke-jr> huh?
2864 2011-03-21 19:43:56 <genjix> (reminds me of svn... having a huge repo of everything and having to check it all out)
2865 2011-03-21 19:44:22 <genjix> luke-jr: oh cool
2866 2011-03-21 19:44:31 <genjix> so i can put repos under projects?
2867 2011-03-21 19:44:35 * genjix gets it now.
2868 2011-03-21 19:44:45 <luke-jr> genjix: yeah
2869 2011-03-21 19:45:02 <luke-jr> not sure if I need to create it or not
2870 2011-03-21 19:45:14 <genjix> let me look around a sec
2871 2011-03-21 19:45:18 <luke-jr> does it show Add Repository for you?
2872 2011-03-21 19:45:33 * BlueMatt has a zip folder which windows users can unzip and compile bitcoin without any installation or complicated instructions :)
2873 2011-03-21 19:46:21 SeriousWorm has left ()
2874 2011-03-21 19:47:05 <genjix> luke-jr: no
2875 2011-03-21 19:47:17 <luke-jr> genjix: hmm, let me know what to add and I'll add & chown :p
2876 2011-03-21 19:47:53 <genjix> i cant see anything
2877 2011-03-21 19:48:01 <luke-jr> btfeature and intersango so far?
2878 2011-03-21 19:48:02 <luke-jr> any others?
2879 2011-03-21 19:48:04 <genjix> only clone or edit project
2880 2011-03-21 19:48:16 <genjix> let me look
2881 2011-03-21 19:48:38 <genjix> well i have 2 projects that are dead
2882 2011-03-21 19:48:52 <xelister> <ArneBab> is the emacs fix already in debian?   <Bombe> Yes, it’s in a package called “vim.”
2883 2011-03-21 19:48:57 Sargun_Screen has joined
2884 2011-03-21 19:49:04 <genjix> xelister: haha so true!
2885 2011-03-21 19:49:22 <Sargun_Screen> hey
2886 2011-03-21 19:49:29 <genjix> i cant wait for vim 4.7 to be in ubuntu repos... it has colorcolumns at looong last
2887 2011-03-21 19:49:35 <Sargun_Screen> Is there any way to anonymize bitcoints?
2888 2011-03-21 19:49:44 <genjix> Sargun_Screen: yeah mixing service
2889 2011-03-21 19:49:47 <luke-jr> genjix: I created the repos for you. Don't forget to set them descriptions
2890 2011-03-21 19:49:51 <Sargun_Screen> Like, aren't all account values public?
2891 2011-03-21 19:49:56 <genjix> luke-jr: but wait
2892 2011-03-21 19:49:56 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: no
2893 2011-03-21 19:50:00 <xelister> Sargun_Screen: lookup our bitcoin over freenet,  although it is an addition, still you need anonimizer or other account-wallet
2894 2011-03-21 19:50:07 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: address values are public, but there is no way to tell who has what addresses
2895 2011-03-21 19:50:09 <genjix> do i needto push to the new ones?
2896 2011-03-21 19:50:14 <luke-jr> genjix: yes
2897 2011-03-21 19:50:17 <genjix> ok
2898 2011-03-21 19:50:27 <luke-jr> genjix: you also need to edit the descriptions
2899 2011-03-21 19:51:07 <luke-jr> genjix: if you want, you can re-add me as a committer or whatever
2900 2011-03-21 19:51:18 <genjix> shit
2901 2011-03-21 19:51:28 <genjix> i pushed wrong repo to wrong repo
2902 2011-03-21 19:51:31 <luke-jr> O.o
2903 2011-03-21 19:51:41 <genjix> what do?
2904 2011-03-21 19:51:46 <genjix> oops
2905 2011-03-21 19:52:04 <genjix> delete btfeature and recreate plz?
2906 2011-03-21 19:52:13 <luke-jr> I can't delete, no access :p
2907 2011-03-21 19:52:14 <genjix> (sorry)
2908 2011-03-21 19:52:23 <Sargun_Screen> What's the algorithm behind bitcoint generation?
2909 2011-03-21 19:52:34 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: sha-256
2910 2011-03-21 19:52:54 <luke-jr> genjix: if you can't delete, add me as admin
2911 2011-03-21 19:53:27 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: I've read that all over the place, but what's the search process to create a new bitcoin?
2912 2011-03-21 19:53:55 <genjix> luke-jr: ok new repo btfeature
2913 2011-03-21 19:54:00 <genjix> nope i deleted it.
2914 2011-03-21 19:54:29 _W_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2915 2011-03-21 19:55:28 hahuang65 has quit (lappy!~hahuang65@209.129.244.250|)
2916 2011-03-21 19:55:44 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: SHA-256 of 80-byte block header, with like 28 bits at the start being 0
2917 2011-03-21 19:55:58 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: the 0 bitcount requirement goes up if people find blocks too fast
2918 2011-03-21 19:56:31 <luke-jr> genjix: done
2919 2011-03-21 19:56:40 <genjix> thanks
2920 2011-03-21 19:57:00 <luke-jr> genjix: again, don't forget to set descriptions
2921 2011-03-21 19:57:42 _W_ has joined
2922 2011-03-21 19:57:59 <gasteve> I'm curious how github and gitorius compare (I've not used either very much, but have used git plenty)
2923 2011-03-21 19:58:12 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: Is that really all?
2924 2011-03-21 19:58:22 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: just one round?
2925 2011-03-21 19:58:37 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: ?
2926 2011-03-21 19:58:41 <genjix> gasteve: both equivalent in speed, but gitorious allows projects with many repos, the source code is open and its better imo
2927 2011-03-21 19:58:45 ducki2p has joined
2928 2011-03-21 19:59:10 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: sha256(80bytes) = 0[0:27]
2929 2011-03-21 19:59:10 <luke-jr> gasteve: GitHub requires you to sign a contract agreeing to pay their legal costs if someone files a frivilous lawsuit against them
2930 2011-03-21 19:59:21 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: SHA256(SHA256(80bytes)
2931 2011-03-21 19:59:24 <luke-jr> otherwise, yes
2932 2011-03-21 19:59:39 * MatrixFrog missed that about github. i should go look at that...
2933 2011-03-21 19:59:39 <luke-jr> the number of zero-bits is determined by a complex algorithm
2934 2011-03-21 19:59:45 <gasteve> hah...I recall gavinandresen mentioning your paranoia about that
2935 2011-03-21 19:59:55 <luke-jr> gasteve: it's not paranoia, it's part of the contract
2936 2011-03-21 20:00:05 <joepie91> Question, just curious: If someone would create a donation page on my gateway, and the gateway would create a new bitcoin address for every donation, but in the end it forwards ALL donations to the same address. Is it possible to track, for example using blockexplorer, where the payment eventually ends up, and what other transactions were sent to that final address, if one only has his unique gateway-generated address?
2937 2011-03-21 20:00:13 <luke-jr> gasteve: I asked GitHub for a comment-only account without that restriction, and they confirmed my interpretation
2938 2011-03-21 20:00:29 <luke-jr> (they refused to make the account without the requirement though)
2939 2011-03-21 20:00:33 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
2940 2011-03-21 20:00:35 <MatrixFrog> couldn't you make a comment-only account by simply not creating any repos
2941 2011-03-21 20:00:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114442 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 469 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 16 hours, 43 minutes, and 9 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67186.57426671
2942 2011-03-21 20:00:47 <luke-jr> MatrixFrog: not without their contract
2943 2011-03-21 20:01:02 <KuT-Sickness> when using poclbm how do I make it so that it only uses my gpu and not my cpu?
2944 2011-03-21 20:01:09 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: luke-jr So, two rounds?
2945 2011-03-21 20:01:12 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: right
2946 2011-03-21 20:01:21 <MatrixFrog> so the concern would be... github being sued for something you said in a comment on someone else's repo?
2947 2011-03-21 20:01:21 <midnightmagic> KuT-Sickness: use the -d argument
2948 2011-03-21 20:01:23 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: poclbm only supports GPU
2949 2011-03-21 20:01:30 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: not so.
2950 2011-03-21 20:01:33 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: if it's using CPU, that means you have a buggy Stream SDK
2951 2011-03-21 20:01:33 <KuT-Sickness> ty midnightmagic
2952 2011-03-21 20:01:51 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: since when?
2953 2011-03-21 20:02:14 <KuT-Sickness> oh
2954 2011-03-21 20:02:24 <KuT-Sickness> maybe I shouldnt tick generate coins in the bitcoin client itself :P
2955 2011-03-21 20:02:27 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: -d selects which GPU out of many
2956 2011-03-21 20:02:30 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: you can put it on a CPU and have since I first tried it, months ago. perhaps it's changed, but a recent git update showed the CPU as a platform which could be chosen in the list of available platforms switchable with -d.
2957 2011-03-21 20:02:31 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: duh :P
2958 2011-03-21 20:02:37 bulletbill has joined
2959 2011-03-21 20:02:52 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: you sure it isn't showing your CPU's integrated GPU?
2960 2011-03-21 20:02:53 <KuT-Sickness> yeah I'm kinda new to this software
2961 2011-03-21 20:02:54 <midnightmagic> KuT-Sickness: ignore the rudeness. we're not all like that.
2962 2011-03-21 20:03:11 <KuT-Sickness> heh its np
2963 2011-03-21 20:03:14 <luke-jr> MatrixFrog: there doesn't need to be a legal basis for the lawsuit against GitHub
2964 2011-03-21 20:03:20 <luke-jr> MatrixFrog: you still have to pay to defend them from it
2965 2011-03-21 20:03:51 <luke-jr> MatrixFrog: Gitorious, on the other hand, simply requires you indemnify them-- so if they lose, they can sue you for damages, for example
2966 2011-03-21 20:03:54 <MatrixFrog> luke-jr: yeah i see where you're coming from. i guess it seems unlikely but as a matter of principle it is a good point
2967 2011-03-21 20:04:06 <KuT-Sickness> so with the poclbm generating, it transfers the results to the bitcoin client itself ?
2968 2011-03-21 20:04:07 <luke-jr> MatrixFrog: anyhow, I at least won't agree to such terms
2969 2011-03-21 20:04:10 hahuang65 has joined
2970 2011-03-21 20:04:14 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: yes
2971 2011-03-21 20:04:25 bulletbill has left ()
2972 2011-03-21 20:04:38 <midnightmagic> python ./poclbm.py ,No device specified or device not found, use -d to specify one of the following,[0]     AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor,[1]     Cypress,[2]     Cypress,[3]     Cypress,[4]     Cypress, and when I choose -d 0: 19823 magic      20   0  308m  53m  16m S  521  0.3   0:21.60 python, and 6.5khash/s
2973 2011-03-21 20:04:59 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: weird
2974 2011-03-21 20:05:05 <KuT-Sickness> can I see it actually doing this at some point? or only in the poclbm console itself
2975 2011-03-21 20:05:15 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: it's not weird, the streams SDK integrates all available computing platforms.
2976 2011-03-21 20:05:17 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: latter
2977 2011-03-21 20:05:23 <KuT-Sickness> ok thanks
2978 2011-03-21 20:05:33 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: I guess AMD doesn't consider Intel CPUs to be computing
2979 2011-03-21 20:05:37 <midnightmagic> it's kinda the point of the SDK dude.
2980 2011-03-21 20:05:51 <luke-jr> …
2981 2011-03-21 20:06:02 <luke-jr> or maybe what I assumed was the Intel GPU, was in fact the Intel CPU very inefficiently
2982 2011-03-21 20:06:05 <midnightmagic> yes, probably intel CPU isn't supported by the sdk.
2983 2011-03-21 20:06:07 <luke-jr> but it *acted* like it was using GPU
2984 2011-03-21 20:06:16 <midnightmagic> hrm..  that is a little odd.
2985 2011-03-21 20:06:18 <luke-jr> eg, stuff got unresponsive on the graphics side
2986 2011-03-21 20:06:37 <KuT-Sickness> has anyone been having problems with their gpu overheating when generating ?
2987 2011-03-21 20:06:46 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: not I
2988 2011-03-21 20:07:05 <midnightmagic> KuT-Sickness: overheating is the perennial problem. give it lots of air, and don't cram your GPUs all in there squished.
2989 2011-03-21 20:07:21 <KuT-Sickness> because limiting resources seems trivial, unlike when using software like boinc
2990 2011-03-21 20:07:50 <luke-jr> KuT-Sickness: ?
2991 2011-03-21 20:08:15 <midnightmagic> damn, network is speeding up again.
2992 2011-03-21 20:08:17 <luke-jr> mtve: btw, is it ok if I keep commit access to bitcoin-pl, or would you prefer I remove myself?
2993 2011-03-21 20:08:19 <KuT-Sickness> well it supports limiting ram usage, cpu usage, etc
2994 2011-03-21 20:08:42 <midnightmagic> it does?
2995 2011-03-21 20:08:51 <KuT-Sickness> talking about boinc here
2996 2011-03-21 20:09:03 <KuT-Sickness> which also supports opencl for certain projects
2997 2011-03-21 20:10:08 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: Two things, A) Is the search space linear? B) I've heard about an example that did this in Python, where can I find it?
2998 2011-03-21 20:14:53 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: what do you mean when you ask about the search-space's linearity?
2999 2011-03-21 20:15:18 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: The value that's being hashed, are we searching it linearly?
3000 2011-03-21 20:15:37 bitcoiner has joined
3001 2011-03-21 20:15:43 <Sargun_Screen> So, we're hashing [0, 4562440617622195218641171605700291324893228507248559930579192517899275167208677386505912811317371399778642309573594407310688704721375437998252661319722214188251994674360264950082874192246603775L]
3002 2011-03-21 20:15:47 <midnightmagic> it doesn't quite work like that.. the values are just hashed out in a sort of a chain.
3003 2011-03-21 20:16:11 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Where can I find more info about this? Almost all the info is about basic transactions.
3004 2011-03-21 20:16:27 <midnightmagic> there are a few values hashed together, and then there's this value which is incremented by one, and then re-hashed. and every once in a while, the miner retrieves an additional setup from the main bitcoind and runs through it all again.
3005 2011-03-21 20:16:38 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: wiki
3006 2011-03-21 20:16:53 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: the source code is authoritative. unfortunately places like the wiki and so on don't describe it in the detail it sounds like you're after.
3007 2011-03-21 20:16:53 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: you can do it linear
3008 2011-03-21 20:16:56 <luke-jr> up to a point
3009 2011-03-21 20:17:05 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the wiki has this in detail
3010 2011-03-21 20:17:23 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: also, asking questions here helps, depending on whether you get clueful people answering.
3011 2011-03-21 20:17:29 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: URL?
3012 2011-03-21 20:17:32 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
3013 2011-03-21 20:18:00 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: btw, all the reused-half-processed-SHA-state stuff is already implemented :P
3014 2011-03-21 20:18:11 <luke-jr> in case that was your plan
3015 2011-03-21 20:18:24 <midnightmagic> that's not a complete description of precisely what's hashed, and it glosses over a lot of stuff.
3016 2011-03-21 20:18:42 aziz has joined
3017 2011-03-21 20:18:51 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: FPGA/Asic
3018 2011-03-21 20:18:58 <Sargun_Screen> I've seen some of the FPGA stuff
3019 2011-03-21 20:19:00 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: ArtForz has those
3020 2011-03-21 20:19:04 topace has joined
3021 2011-03-21 20:19:07 <midnightmagic> FPGA is not as efficient as GPU.
3022 2011-03-21 20:19:13 jroot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3023 2011-03-21 20:19:25 <midnightmagic> true ASIC has a few $x million dollar lifecycle.
3024 2011-03-21 20:19:41 theymos has joined
3025 2011-03-21 20:19:47 <jgarzik> tcatm: did you build-test 1c09a4adb20aed76dd5f07051c605ffd56a093d6 on Windows?  !GUI is true on Windows and OSX, as well as Linux, but setsid() does not exist on Windows AFAIK.
3026 2011-03-21 20:20:00 <midnightmagic> Unless you have really, really cheap chip engineers, structured ASIC is also outside the realm of possibility for many scenarios, especially if you live in a place with cheap power.
3027 2011-03-21 20:20:03 aziz has left ()
3028 2011-03-21 20:20:50 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Well, depends on what you're doing
3029 2011-03-21 20:20:54 <midnightmagic> with GPU, you are piggy-backing on the video-game market's economy of scale.
3030 2011-03-21 20:21:00 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: I'm talking about bitcoin hashing specifically.
3031 2011-03-21 20:21:02 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: There is SHA1 silicon.
3032 2011-03-21 20:21:10 jroot has joined
3033 2011-03-21 20:21:16 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Why would GPU be more efficient?
3034 2011-03-21 20:21:24 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: that is not efficient, when you include initial cost versus capability.
3035 2011-03-21 20:21:29 <tcatm> jgarzik: I don't have access to a win box that can build bitcoin binaries.
3036 2011-03-21 20:21:30 <BlueMatt> Sargun_Screen: bitcoin SHA256 is different from regular SHA256 in that you can skip several rounds
3037 2011-03-21 20:21:43 <BlueMatt> tcatm: well then do I have a zip file for you
3038 2011-03-21 20:21:46 <Sargun_Screen> BlueMatt: Explain?
3039 2011-03-21 20:21:51 <tcatm> BlueMatt: great, url?
3040 2011-03-21 20:21:51 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: there are 3200 individual SPU on one Radeon HD 5970.
3041 2011-03-21 20:21:58 <BlueMatt> tcatm: not uploaded anywhere yet...
3042 2011-03-21 20:22:01 <tcatm> will it work on win98?
3043 2011-03-21 20:22:07 <BlueMatt> tcatm: oh, maybe not
3044 2011-03-21 20:22:15 <jgarzik> tcatm: Still, I think we should avoid checking in stuff that seems /likely/ to break build on other platforms :)
3045 2011-03-21 20:22:16 <BlueMatt> tcatm: only tested on win7 and win server 2003
3046 2011-03-21 20:22:56 <BlueMatt> Sargun_Screen: Im no expert ask ArtForz but from what he tells me, you can skip several SHA256 rounds because you are only changing one set of bits (nonce) with each iteration
3047 2011-03-21 20:22:59 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: and each element is incredibly power-efficient per computation (in this context) well above, for example, the typical CPU because it doesn't do much except compute.
3048 2011-03-21 20:23:20 <tcatm> BlueMatt: k, I'll try to get a recent windows vm
3049 2011-03-21 20:24:02 <BlueMatt> tcatm: well the zip is 1G so I have to re archive it to 7z and find a host first
3050 2011-03-21 20:24:12 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: How many hashes/sec can a GPU put out?
3051 2011-03-21 20:24:14 <tcatm> bittorrent ;)
3052 2011-03-21 20:24:22 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: ArtForz has designed his own FPGA implementation, which can then be translated into what's called a structured ASIC; however, it is more expensive for the initial buy (even if you assume your time is free) and must make up for itself over time with superior power consumption.
3053 2011-03-21 20:24:24 * BlueMatt has UPnP working on Windows, Linux, and Mac :):)
3054 2011-03-21 20:24:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: does it use the Windows API on Windows ?:P
3055 2011-03-21 20:24:34 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: the Radeon HD 5970 can do about 600MHash/s
3056 2011-03-21 20:24:35 <theymos> joepie91: Regarding your tracking question: it would be easy to find the eventual address in that case, and you could guess its purpose with some certainty, but it might not be possible to absolutely prove that the two addresses are owned by the same person.
3057 2011-03-21 20:24:38 <tcatm> jgarzik: I just assumed it would work as fork() is from the same header file and gavin merged that pull request a few days ago
3058 2011-03-21 20:24:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, currently not
3059 2011-03-21 20:24:46 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: up to like 600 MH/s
3060 2011-03-21 20:24:46 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: modulo overclocking, cooling, etc.
3061 2011-03-21 20:24:57 <luke-jr> 645 actually
3062 2011-03-21 20:25:17 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: Looking at FPGA, right now, Virtex-6 can only do 255 MH/s
3063 2011-03-21 20:25:18 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: go here for estimates, along with hash/watt ratios; https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison
3064 2011-03-21 20:25:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: in fact on win its really hacky, I couldnt get miniupnpc to compile so I used a compile library version from miniupnpc (they include the .a in their binary packages) but it works
3065 2011-03-21 20:25:34 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: my 5850 does 265
3066 2011-03-21 20:25:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: maybe Ill look at making it better but atm it works fine so I see no real need
3067 2011-03-21 20:25:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: fail XD
3068 2011-03-21 20:25:50 jroot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3069 2011-03-21 20:26:02 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3070 2011-03-21 20:26:11 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: that's severely overclocked, and probably watercooled.
3071 2011-03-21 20:26:27 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: but, you can parallelize things more depending on real estate.
3072 2011-03-21 20:26:33 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: severely? isn't it just clocked at 5870's/
3073 2011-03-21 20:26:35 <luke-jr> ?
3074 2011-03-21 20:26:49 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: mining is EXTREMELY parallelizable
3075 2011-03-21 20:26:51 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: 5970 overheats quicker: it's two 5870 sandwiched. :)
3076 2011-03-21 20:27:04 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: you could create a merkle tree for each device if you wanted
3077 2011-03-21 20:27:09 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: I c
3078 2011-03-21 20:28:02 <joepie91> theymos: hm, ok
3079 2011-03-21 20:28:06 jroot has joined
3080 2011-03-21 20:28:11 Netsniper has joined
3081 2011-03-21 20:28:24 <joepie91> was just talking in #bitcoin-discussion about mixing
3082 2011-03-21 20:28:32 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: honestly, unless you consider your time worthless, given the rapid pace of GPU development and the upcoming compute/watt ratios of new video card developments.
3083 2011-03-21 20:28:41 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: How would a merkle tree help?
3084 2011-03-21 20:28:41 <midnightmagic> sorry, that's a bit strong.
3085 2011-03-21 20:29:08 <midnightmagic> unless you consider your time as "fun" :)  (as I do) then things are economically easy to work out in favour of GPU farms. :)
3086 2011-03-21 20:29:10 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: The cost of FPGAs is cheap in quantity.
3087 2011-03-21 20:29:21 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: no they're not.
3088 2011-03-21 20:31:16 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Xilinx Virtex 6 is $1500/unit individual.
3089 2011-03-21 20:31:32 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: well, let me back up a tad. Which chip, specifically are you talking about, which can do equivalent hashes to a GPU like the 5970, and are cheaper in quantity, and what kind of quantities are you talking about? :)
3090 2011-03-21 20:31:35 <Sargun_Screen> Closeer to $260/unit in quantity.
3091 2011-03-21 20:31:55 <Sargun_Screen> Quantitiy > 1000.
3092 2011-03-21 20:32:03 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: my Radeon 5850 which outperforms it is under $200 individual.
3093 2011-03-21 20:32:04 <Sargun_Screen> I might be able to get them cheaper, but I'm not sure.
3094 2011-03-21 20:32:10 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: Right, so you're willing to spend 1.5mil?
3095 2011-03-21 20:32:38 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: or half mil?
3096 2011-03-21 20:32:43 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: I might be in for 10 at most
3097 2011-03-21 20:32:45 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Let me deal with that ;-)
3098 2011-03-21 20:33:16 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: assuming I don't need a whole PC for them :P
3099 2011-03-21 20:33:23 <luke-jr> eg, if I can just plug all 10 into my desktop
3100 2011-03-21 20:33:39 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: the amusing part is, that if you overtake the network too soon, price will drop as people lose confidence in the currency.
3101 2011-03-21 20:33:48 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: I realise that.
3102 2011-03-21 20:33:58 <d__> Sargun_Screen: won't spartan-6 outperform virtex-6 considering the lower price?
3103 2011-03-21 20:34:01 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: And besides, if you have that kind of money to throw around, FPGA still isn't efficient.
3104 2011-03-21 20:34:15 <tcatm> jgarzik: looks like windows doesn't have fork() either. should we disable -daemon on windows?
3105 2011-03-21 20:34:32 <luke-jr> tcatm: lol, duh
3106 2011-03-21 20:34:42 <Sargun_Screen> d__: I'm just looking around right now, but I might be able to put four SHA-256 cores on the virtex
3107 2011-03-21 20:34:45 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: structured ASIC requires similar skillset as FPGA design, and costs less, and requires less power.
3108 2011-03-21 20:35:00 <midnightmagic> significantly less actually.
3109 2011-03-21 20:35:46 <jgarzik> tcatm: I'd look at the behavior of 0.3.18 or some other older version, on Windows.  I'm no expert...  I was just reasonable certain setsid() would not build on Windows :)
3110 2011-03-21 20:36:13 <jgarzik> tcatm: or is -daemon brand new?  I haven't been paying attention to that area.
3111 2011-03-21 20:36:39 <Sargun_Screen> $2,897.4400 @ VIRTEX 6; $806.7400 @ Spartan 3.
3112 2011-03-21 20:36:43 <Sargun_Screen> s/3/6/
3113 2011-03-21 20:37:20 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
3114 2011-03-21 20:37:21 <d__> which size?
3115 2011-03-21 20:37:55 <Sargun_Screen> d__: verification on the spartan-6 rates it only at 168 MH/s
3116 2011-03-21 20:38:00 <midnightmagic> Sargun_Screen: may I ask where you are sourcing the volume discount? my chinese supplier scary volume discounts don't kick in until > 2000 units.
3117 2011-03-21 20:38:06 <Sargun_Screen> Virtex-6 is 255 MH/s
3118 2011-03-21 20:38:10 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Silicon valley.
3119 2011-03-21 20:38:19 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Where everything is magical.
3120 2011-03-21 20:38:21 <Sargun_Screen> ;-)
3121 2011-03-21 20:38:38 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
3122 2011-03-21 20:38:44 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: I know someone who is buying a lot of these.
3123 2011-03-21 20:38:50 <tcatm> nope, -daemon is old, but the switch to wxconfig in makefile.unix broke the fork and so I tried to rearrange the code in init.cpp (i.e. so errors are output before forking; bitcoind --help forked before printing help). -daemon is default for bitcoind (no way to disable) and optional for bitcoin
3124 2011-03-21 20:38:51 <midnightmagic> I am feeling suddenly less willing to answer your questions fully.
3125 2011-03-21 20:39:02 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: What's wrong with SV?
3126 2011-03-21 20:39:15 <midnightmagic> nothing. you're just not being entirely forthcoming.
3127 2011-03-21 20:39:19 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: I'm sorry, but I really can't say how I can get ahold of these.
3128 2011-03-21 20:39:28 <midnightmagic> then I can't really tell you much more.
3129 2011-03-21 20:39:31 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: To get this kind of pricing, we're required to sign an NDA with the vendor.
3130 2011-03-21 20:39:39 <Sargun_Screen> :-(
3131 2011-03-21 20:39:42 <Sargun_Screen> I'm sorry.
3132 2011-03-21 20:39:46 <midnightmagic> well good luck with that then.
3133 2011-03-21 20:39:57 <midnightmagic> don't kill the currency until my miners have paid for themselves, k.
3134 2011-03-21 20:40:08 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: Your chinese vendor doesn't require an NDA?
3135 2011-03-21 20:40:15 <midnightmagic> no
3136 2011-03-21 20:40:18 <luke-jr> not to mention, us small-scale miners have no incentive to help you create competition :P
3137 2011-03-21 20:40:23 tarutaru has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3138 2011-03-21 20:40:29 <midnightmagic> course not. they're chinese. they're awesome.
3139 2011-03-21 20:41:00 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: I'd share ;-P
3140 2011-03-21 20:41:01 <BlueMatt> Sargun_Screen: have you asked ArtForz about his miners?
3141 2011-03-21 20:41:16 <d__> is his cluster running now?
3142 2011-03-21 20:41:18 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: oh? so I can buy 10 of those from you?
3143 2011-03-21 20:41:21 <midnightmagic> d__: yes.
3144 2011-03-21 20:41:43 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: At the moment, nothing is solid/for sale.
3145 2011-03-21 20:41:47 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 2550000
3146 2011-03-21 20:41:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2550000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 day, 11 hours, 38 minutes, and 53 seconds
3147 2011-03-21 20:42:01 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: that doesn't answer my question :P
3148 2011-03-21 20:42:04 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: Hell, the chances I'd even go through with this is low.
3149 2011-03-21 20:42:10 <luke-jr> o
3150 2011-03-21 20:42:48 <BlueMatt> d__: yea most of ArtForz's ASICs are running by now
3151 2011-03-21 20:43:01 Zenith77 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3152 2011-03-21 20:43:04 <Sargun_Screen> luke-jr: The planets have aligned, and the ability for me to do this has become possible.
3153 2011-03-21 20:43:06 <luke-jr> hmm, 4 months to break even :x
3154 2011-03-21 20:43:07 <midnightmagic> all but the broken ones are running AFAIK
3155 2011-03-21 20:43:10 <Sargun_Screen> BlueMatt: He is using ASICs?
3156 2011-03-21 20:43:18 <midnightmagic> structured ASIC.
3157 2011-03-21 20:43:23 <BlueMatt> Sargun_Screen: yes, that is why I asked if you had talked to him
3158 2011-03-21 20:43:24 <luke-jr> Sargun_Screen: consider that I broke even on my 5850 in 2 weeks
3159 2011-03-21 20:43:50 <midnightmagic> art's chips are probably a couple of base-2 orders of magnitude more power-efficient than an FPGA ever will be.
3160 2011-03-21 20:44:04 <midnightmagic> lol
3161 2011-03-21 20:44:05 <BlueMatt> Sargun_Screen: AFAIK ArtForz is the most experienced when it comes to mining optimization
3162 2011-03-21 20:46:30 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz seems like a minig badas
3163 2011-03-21 20:46:38 jroot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3164 2011-03-21 20:47:00 <midnightmagic> minig?
3165 2011-03-21 20:47:04 <midnightmagic> mining
3166 2011-03-21 20:47:15 <midnightmagic> Art takes his hobbies very seriously.
3167 2011-03-21 20:47:28 <midnightmagic> but in the end, I believe he's doing it entirely for fun
3168 2011-03-21 20:47:30 prax has joined
3169 2011-03-21 20:47:40 <BlueMatt> Sargun_Screen: yea pretty much, he has said that his structured ASICs really arent any better than his high end graphics cards
3170 2011-03-21 20:47:42 <lfm> better than working
3171 2011-03-21 20:47:52 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: and the amazing amount of cash ;)
3172 2011-03-21 20:47:54 <midnightmagic> if it ever became not-fun, I'm pretty sure Art would move on, and the bitcoin currency would suffer terribly.
3173 2011-03-21 20:48:11 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: he's down, according to him, by tens of thousands overall.
3174 2011-03-21 20:48:23 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: yea ASICs are expensive
3175 2011-03-21 20:48:24 <lfm> well 20%
3176 2011-03-21 20:48:31 m00p has joined
3177 2011-03-21 20:48:40 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: not ASIC, structured ASIC. halfway step between FPGA and a true ASIC.
3178 2011-03-21 20:48:41 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: Im not sure if hes just down on the ASICs or on it all?
3179 2011-03-21 20:48:52 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: "down"?
3180 2011-03-21 20:49:05 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: in paid/made money
3181 2011-03-21 20:49:17 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: everything put together, if I recall his statements correctly. his ASIC was a big red number on his balance sheet. :)
3182 2011-03-21 20:49:18 <BlueMatt> though he mentioned he used to make 6 figs/month off some mmorpg gold farming program so, I dont think he is too concerned with cash ;)
3183 2011-03-21 20:49:40 <lfm> proly just the s-asics. it cost a lot before it started
3184 2011-03-21 20:50:05 <midnightmagic> yeah, his real miners paid for themselves within a few months of him starting them up
3185 2011-03-21 20:50:25 oonix has joined
3186 2011-03-21 20:50:29 <midnightmagic> anyway, this is all just IRC hearsay
3187 2011-03-21 20:51:12 <Sargun_Screen> What do you think about using CPUs that have sHA-2 instructions in silicon?
3188 2011-03-21 20:51:28 <sipa> they're far slower than gpu's
3189 2011-03-21 20:51:30 <midnightmagic> not power-efficient. you can't cram a thousand CPUs into one machine.
3190 2011-03-21 20:52:02 <midnightmagic> plus their algorithm can't be tuned to be bitcoin-specific
3191 2011-03-21 20:52:29 <Sargun_Screen> midnightmagic: yeah, that's the bigger part.
3192 2011-03-21 20:52:38 <lfm> Sargun_Screen: I have a VIA-C7 with the sha256 instruction. it is amoung the best of the cpu miners but still cant compete with the good gpus
3193 2011-03-21 20:53:01 <midnightmagic> lfm: what kind of hashrate do you get on that thing anyway?
3194 2011-03-21 20:53:22 <Sargun_Screen> lfm: how many cycles does it take to do a sha256?
3195 2011-03-21 20:53:28 <lfm> the via-c7 running at 1.8 ghz is about 150k hash/s
3196 2011-03-21 20:53:36 <lfm> the via-c7 running at 1.8 ghz is about 1500k hash/s
3197 2011-03-21 20:53:44 <lfm> typo-correction
3198 2011-03-21 20:53:51 <Sargun_Screen> whoa, suck.
3199 2011-03-21 20:54:20 <lfm> well it runs on about 30 watts for the whole system, so its not bad costt-efficiency
3200 2011-03-21 20:54:52 <lfm> but ya, dissapointing overall
3201 2011-03-21 20:55:42 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 1500
3202 2011-03-21 20:55:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 6 years, 47 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 57 minutes, and 55 seconds
3203 2011-03-21 20:56:48 <Sargun_Screen> haha
3204 2011-03-21 20:58:02 <lfm> like I also have a amd phenom X4 that produces about 11000k hash/s but it sucks over 200 watts so the cost effiency is about the same
3205 2011-03-21 20:58:04 <d__> luke-jr: earlier you wrote that you broke even after 2 weeks when using one 5850. was this a long time ago? I'm asking since the calculator gives 50 bitcoins in 2 weeks now. (yeah, I'm new here)
3206 2011-03-21 20:58:40 <luke-jr> d__: first half of February
3207 2011-03-21 20:58:51 <d__> okay.
3208 2011-03-21 20:58:52 <lfm> d__: ya it would have been at least a few months ago when the difficulty was lowwer
3209 2011-03-21 20:59:40 lyspooner has joined
3210 2011-03-21 21:02:11 <Sargun_Screen> I need to convince by buddy at TSMC to let me have some fun on the fab floor
3211 2011-03-21 21:02:56 <midnightmagic> my 1090T can do a max of about.. 21Mhash/s
3212 2011-03-21 21:03:26 <lfm> Sargun_Screen: not sure how many cycles per sha256 the via-c7 does but I suspect it tries to get 1 cycle per round, except bitcoin is really short blocks so the setup and clean up are a lot of overhead too
3213 2011-03-21 21:04:19 <Sargun_Screen> lfm: I doubt 1 cycle/rnd
3214 2011-03-21 21:04:19 <BlueMatt> arg segfaults on windows and I have nothing to debug them with :(
3215 2011-03-21 21:04:51 <Sargun_Screen> lfm: I was playing around with sha1, it was about 7 cycles/hash
3216 2011-03-21 21:04:58 <Sargun_Screen> It was just HW in the lab
3217 2011-03-21 21:05:16 <luke-jr> d__: I also got a good price for it
3218 2011-03-21 21:05:41 <lfm> ya, I mean a round of the internal sha2 - 32 rounds to a 64 byte block
3219 2011-03-21 21:05:59 <lfm> i'm not really sure
3220 2011-03-21 21:11:46 <Sargun_Screen> Anyone played around with altera?
3221 2011-03-21 21:13:07 <d__> Sargun_Screen: yep.
3222 2011-03-21 21:13:16 <Sargun_Screen> er, s/altera/altera harcopy/
3223 2011-03-21 21:13:20 <Sargun_Screen> God damnit, I cannot type.
3224 2011-03-21 21:13:26 <d__> ah, no :)
3225 2011-03-21 21:13:27 <Sargun_Screen> That's their ASIC platform.
3226 2011-03-21 21:13:35 <Sargun_Screen> d__: What have you done with Altera gear
3227 2011-03-21 21:13:37 <d__> don't really have the money.
3228 2011-03-21 21:13:59 <d__> today I sent off a prototype of my stratix II cluster.
3229 2011-03-21 21:14:07 <d__> (to the pcb fab)
3230 2011-03-21 21:14:49 <d__> I love quartus, really nice to use.
3231 2011-03-21 21:15:08 <Sargun_Screen> d__: building a bitcoin miner?
3232 2011-03-21 21:15:30 <d__> dunno about that
3233 2011-03-21 21:15:43 <Sargun_Screen> d__: What are you doing with yur cluster?
3234 2011-03-21 21:15:54 <Sargun_Screen> d__: Straix II is cheap, isn't it?
3235 2011-03-21 21:15:56 <d__> will probably crack some DES keys
3236 2011-03-21 21:16:24 <d__> nah, don't think that. $2k in small quantities.
3237 2011-03-21 21:16:46 MatrixFrog has left ()
3238 2011-03-21 21:16:56 <d__> sourced from some other place then digikey ;)
3239 2011-03-21 21:17:22 <d__> s/then/than/
3240 2011-03-21 21:17:41 <Sargun_Screen> d__: must be thinking of cyclone
3241 2011-03-21 21:18:02 <d__> yep, it's quite cheap. not as low as spartan, though.
3242 2011-03-21 21:19:00 <d__> anyways; I will probably try porting alteras SHA512 implementation.
3243 2011-03-21 21:19:05 `Jaka has joined
3244 2011-03-21 21:20:39 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3245 2011-03-21 21:22:15 <xelister> are there CL kernels to calculate/break sha512?
3246 2011-03-21 21:22:26 <d__> btw; is altera hardcopy / xilinx easypath the same thing as structured ASIC? I've only seen cost reductions, nothing about power.
3247 2011-03-21 21:22:27 <Sargun_Screen> yep
3248 2011-03-21 21:23:13 <Sargun_Screen> @ xelister
3249 2011-03-21 21:23:17 <sipa> Art's s-asic do a double sha256 calculation in +- 500 clock cycles i think
3250 2011-03-21 21:23:37 <sipa> but with a new input every cycle
3251 2011-03-21 21:24:08 Validus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3252 2011-03-21 21:25:29 <xelister> Sargun_Screen: cool
3253 2011-03-21 21:25:31 <d__> sipa: do you know the clock frequency?
3254 2011-03-21 21:26:10 Zenith77 has joined
3255 2011-03-21 21:26:11 <sipa> 200MHz, so 200MH/s
3256 2011-03-21 21:26:50 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3257 2011-03-21 21:27:18 <sipa> so it takes 2.5us for a full hash, but by using such a long pipeline you effectively calculate a hash every 5ns
3258 2011-03-21 21:27:51 gr0gmint has joined
3259 2011-03-21 21:29:16 <sipa> ArtForz: correct me if i'm wrong
3260 2011-03-21 21:29:33 <lfm> sipa I think thats the idea ya
3261 2011-03-21 21:30:16 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
3262 2011-03-21 21:32:26 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
3263 2011-03-21 21:34:53 Bosma has joined
3264 2011-03-21 21:37:47 <joepie91> for those who are interested, currently there is a radio show (with music mixed in now and then) going about Metalgear, the persona management (sockpuppet) system that the US government is using to influence public opinion: http://radio.anonops.in/
3265 2011-03-21 21:39:21 hahuang65 has quit (lappy!~hahuang65@209.129.244.250|)
3266 2011-03-21 21:39:38 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3267 2011-03-21 21:41:05 <lfm> ;;seen jgarzik
3268 2011-03-21 21:41:05 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 hour, 4 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <jgarzik> tcatm: or is -daemon brand new?  I haven't been paying attention to that area.
3269 2011-03-21 21:41:42 <lfm> jgarzik: just trying cpu-miner v0.8 and I cant get the config file arg to work
3270 2011-03-21 21:42:05 <lfm> [2011-02-21 15:39:05] JSON decode of minerd.config failed
3271 2011-03-21 21:42:14 <jgarzik> lfm: wanna pastebin it?
3272 2011-03-21 21:42:57 <lfm> all I changed from the example was the user/password
3273 2011-03-21 21:43:28 <Zenith77> There should be a sticky on the mining forums with the major clients/sites :/
3274 2011-03-21 21:43:47 phantomcircuit has joined
3275 2011-03-21 21:43:50 <jgarzik> lfm: remove comma after "quiet : true,"
3276 2011-03-21 21:43:56 <jgarzik> lfm: does that fix ?
3277 2011-03-21 21:44:05 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3278 2011-03-21 21:44:25 <lfm> hehe ya
3279 2011-03-21 21:44:52 <lfm> so bad example! grin
3280 2011-03-21 21:45:23 <joepie91> gah, srsly... that sockpuppet stuff (metalgear) is creepy
3281 2011-03-21 21:46:38 jostmey has joined
3282 2011-03-21 21:48:53 <ousado> joepie91: is it as creepy as the "music"?
3283 2011-03-21 21:49:16 gr0gmint has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3284 2011-03-21 21:49:23 <joepie91> lol
3285 2011-03-21 21:49:32 <joepie91> a lot creepier :P
3286 2011-03-21 21:49:34 <joepie91> no, but srsly
3287 2011-03-21 21:49:40 <joepie91> "persona management software"
3288 2011-03-21 21:49:43 <joepie91> basically sockpuppets
3289 2011-03-21 21:49:56 <joepie91> that allows every "controller" to control several completely separate identities
3290 2011-03-21 21:50:00 <dirtyfilthy> i wonder how well it works
3291 2011-03-21 21:50:03 <joepie91> complete with history, relations network
3292 2011-03-21 21:50:10 <joepie91> background info, etc
3293 2011-03-21 21:50:13 <dirtyfilthy> especially when real people interact with them
3294 2011-03-21 21:50:20 <joepie91> there has been a show before: http://anonnews.org/?p=press&a=item&i=752
3295 2011-03-21 21:50:22 <joepie91> well, that is the point
3296 2011-03-21 21:50:24 <joepie91> it's not automated
3297 2011-03-21 21:50:30 <joepie91> it's controlled by humans
3298 2011-03-21 21:50:43 <joepie91> just the software completely manages profiles et al, to keep everything separate
3299 2011-03-21 21:50:50 <joepie91> so you don't get crosscontamination
3300 2011-03-21 21:50:57 <dirtyfilthy> eh ok
3301 2011-03-21 21:51:03 <dirtyfilthy> so it's not really that advanced
3302 2011-03-21 21:51:31 <ousado> well, what do you expect?
3303 2011-03-21 21:51:39 <joepie91> it is, I believe it *does* have some automated parts
3304 2011-03-21 21:51:39 <dirtyfilthy> automation
3305 2011-03-21 21:51:50 <joepie91> but it won't be able to talk to people itself, afaik
3306 2011-03-21 21:51:56 <joepie91> however
3307 2011-03-21 21:52:03 <joepie91> from what I know, it will be able to collect data on itself
3308 2011-03-21 21:52:10 <joepie91> I'm not exactly sure on that part though
3309 2011-03-21 21:52:33 <dirtyfilthy> i've seen twitter bot networks do the same thing
3310 2011-03-21 21:52:36 <dirtyfilthy> all friend each other
3311 2011-03-21 21:52:44 <dirtyfilthy> send @ messages to each other
3312 2011-03-21 21:53:10 <joepie91> yes, but does it allow to manage hundreds of completely separate fake identities with background, fake networks, completely independent from each other, spread across the entire internet?
3313 2011-03-21 21:53:22 <joepie91> in such a way you won't ever know they are real?
3314 2011-03-21 21:53:24 <joepie91> err
3315 2011-03-21 21:53:25 <joepie91> not real*
3316 2011-03-21 21:53:56 <dirtyfilthy> i wrote a piece of software to kind of do the opposite
3317 2011-03-21 21:54:00 <joepie91> here is a recording of the first broadcast -> http://ge.tt/5tzZlkq (I can't recall 100% of what was being said, so that will be more reliable)
3318 2011-03-21 21:54:04 <joepie91> what did it do?
3319 2011-03-21 21:54:05 <dirtyfilthy> automatically link profiles to the same identity
3320 2011-03-21 21:54:10 <joepie91> mye
3321 2011-03-21 21:54:20 <joepie91> that is what this metalgear thing tries to avoid
3322 2011-03-21 21:54:37 <dirtyfilthy> https://github.com/dirtyfilthy/lulz
3323 2011-03-21 21:54:50 <dirtyfilthy> so this is quite relevant to my interests
3324 2011-03-21 21:54:53 <joepie91> (also, me thinks the radio is getting ddosed... again)
3325 2011-03-21 21:56:17 RomD has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3326 2011-03-21 21:57:21 oonix has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3327 2011-03-21 22:01:10 <jgarzik> [RFC] Finite transaction lifetime (aka "fill or kill")
3328 2011-03-21 22:01:11 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4749.0
3329 2011-03-21 22:02:53 <lfm> jgarzik: I also have trouble with separate user/pass in config file, combined userpass works
3330 2011-03-21 22:03:13 <jgarzik> lfm: yeah, I have trouble with --user/--pass on cmmand line.  I think that is just broken.
3331 2011-03-21 22:03:20 <lfm> kk
3332 2011-03-21 22:03:38 <ousado> is that show still on? I still only hear those wretched attempts to become something that might be called DJ when it has been reborn with taste
3333 2011-03-21 22:05:01 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3334 2011-03-21 22:07:01 <joepie91> ousado: supposedly someone has to deal with a few things
3335 2011-03-21 22:07:04 <joepie91> then he should be back
3336 2011-03-21 22:07:19 <joepie91> either way, it's not finished yet
3337 2011-03-21 22:07:29 <joepie91> recording of part 1 here: http://speedshare.org/download.php?id=B5B4C43611
3338 2011-03-21 22:14:23 <joepie91> ousado: apparently show is starting again
3339 2011-03-21 22:14:41 <ousado> ah, thanks
3340 2011-03-21 22:16:47 <TD_> jgarzik: it makes a lot of sense, but only solves one half of the problem ... if a tx bounces, how can I as a user understand why and fix it?
3341 2011-03-21 22:17:00 <TD_> still it's a good start
3342 2011-03-21 22:17:24 <lfm> TD_: as a user txn shouldnt bounce at all
3343 2011-03-21 22:17:47 <TD_> one unsolved problem in bitcoin is how users should know what fees to attach
3344 2011-03-21 22:18:10 <TD_> in theory it's possible that one day, all miners will require fees. so at that point attaching no fee or a fee that is too small, would result in a bounced/failed tx
3345 2011-03-21 22:18:33 <TD_> but ... for as long as there are some miners accepting zero fee transactions, they will commit eventually. it might just take a long time.
3346 2011-03-21 22:18:35 <lfm> in practise I think some miners will always carry free txn
3347 2011-03-21 22:19:57 <lfm> in fact I think most miners will always carry free txn, the actual cost of a txn is so close to zero it doesnt make sense to charge for them
3348 2011-03-21 22:21:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree completely, that is virtually how the network operates now anyway as waiting 24 hours and resending a tx should get it in a block due to the turn over of bitcoin clients restarting
3349 2011-03-21 22:24:09 Omni is now known as AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Omni|Work
3350 2011-03-21 22:24:14 <SykeP> since the 50 coin reward will eventually half to nothing, fees will be the way to keep miners mining.
3351 2011-03-21 22:25:12 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3352 2011-03-21 22:25:28 <lfm> SykeP: ya people who have "rush" txn who absolutly need them in the next block will pay a fee, people who dont care if it takes 24 hours will prolly still use free txn
3353 2011-03-21 22:26:21 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3354 2011-03-21 22:26:38 <joepie91> ... why is photoshop laggy as fuck here o_O
3355 2011-03-21 22:26:45 pecket has joined
3356 2011-03-21 22:26:50 <joepie91> anyone has any idea what might make my stuff lag?
3357 2011-03-21 22:26:58 <joepie91> (on windows)
3358 2011-03-21 22:26:59 <lfm> I never knew you could run photoshop on irc
3359 2011-03-21 22:27:01 mehh has joined
3360 2011-03-21 22:27:09 <joepie91> "here" -> my computer
3361 2011-03-21 22:27:10 <joepie91> lol
3362 2011-03-21 22:27:17 bitcoiner has joined
3363 2011-03-21 22:27:27 <lfm> prolly cuz you computer is slow
3364 2011-03-21 22:27:39 <SykeP> because you're running windows
3365 2011-03-21 22:27:51 <BlueMatt> It all depends on how much bitcoin grows, IMHO we should plan on the network consisting of every pc on the globe, but in terms of rules for tx adoption and planning on the availability of miners, we should plan on the bitcoin userbase growing very slowly
3366 2011-03-21 22:28:17 <BlueMatt> ie we should work on the network code to make it scale as much as possible
3367 2011-03-21 22:28:26 <joepie91> lfm: I have like 30% CPU usage... so that can't be it
3368 2011-03-21 22:28:29 <BlueMatt> but not worry about tx fee stuff when we become huge
3369 2011-03-21 22:28:31 <SykeP> the default size for free txs is very small
3370 2011-03-21 22:28:35 <BlueMatt> joepie91: swap
3371 2011-03-21 22:28:36 <joepie91> and I wouldn't call a quadcore slow
3372 2011-03-21 22:28:36 <joepie91> even with windows 7
3373 2011-03-21 22:28:39 <lfm> BlueMatt: kinda hard to write code that you cant test
3374 2011-03-21 22:29:07 <lfm> joepie91: ya some quadcore are slow
3375 2011-03-21 22:29:14 <BlueMatt> lfm: not saying we need to test it with that kind of load, but when we write networking code, we should focus on scaling very well
3376 2011-03-21 22:29:15 <joepie91> err.
3377 2011-03-21 22:29:18 <joepie91> then why is it normally not slow.
3378 2011-03-21 22:29:29 <BlueMatt> joepie91: pagefile?
3379 2011-03-21 22:29:38 <lfm> you dont normally run photoshop?
3380 2011-03-21 22:30:19 <joepie91> lfm: I normally do.
3381 2011-03-21 22:30:32 <joepie91> BlueMatt: shouldn't be the issue :/
3382 2011-03-21 22:30:42 <joepie91> anyhow, I just shut down everything
3383 2011-03-21 22:30:46 <joepie91> except for IRC, lol
3384 2011-03-21 22:30:49 <joepie91> and now it somehow runs well
3385 2011-03-21 22:31:00 <BlueMatt> joepie91: so...memory low ie pagefile?
3386 2011-03-21 22:31:09 <joepie91> was using 40% of memory
3387 2011-03-21 22:31:15 <joepie91> physical
3388 2011-03-21 22:31:18 <lfm> well, photoshop is pretty memory intesive. if you have some background tasks gobbling up ram that could happen
3389 2011-03-21 22:31:32 <joepie91> that 40% included photoshop :P
3390 2011-03-21 22:32:12 <lfm> and how is the cpu utilization?
3391 2011-03-21 22:32:33 <joepie91> 30%
3392 2011-03-21 22:32:48 <joepie91> but ye, after shutting everything down it works
3393 2011-03-21 22:32:55 <joepie91> maybe had something to do with my gpu or sth
3394 2011-03-21 22:32:56 <joepie91> :/
3395 2011-03-21 22:33:06 <lfm> or disk
3396 2011-03-21 22:33:19 <joepie91> showed 2MB/sec approx
3397 2011-03-21 22:33:47 Validus has joined
3398 2011-03-21 22:34:03 <lfm> well all thats left is "microsoft sucks". its inescapable
3399 2011-03-21 22:34:58 <joepie91> true :P
3400 2011-03-21 22:35:52 <Zenith77> well I'm glad I have to buy Xcode to have the make utility
3401 2011-03-21 22:35:54 <Zenith77> thanks apple!
3402 2011-03-21 22:36:07 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: check your osx install disc
3403 2011-03-21 22:36:11 <BlueMatt> should be there for free
3404 2011-03-21 22:36:25 <Zenith77> uhhhh
3405 2011-03-21 22:36:28 <Zenith77> :/
3406 2011-03-21 22:36:35 <Zenith77> can you return xcode :D
3407 2011-03-21 22:36:46 <Zenith77> If it is I had rather not waste five dollars
3408 2011-03-21 22:36:48 <BlueMatt> dont think so
3409 2011-03-21 22:36:56 <BlueMatt> Though you can if you email apple
3410 2011-03-21 22:36:59 <Zenith77> that uh....that sucks :/
3411 2011-03-21 22:37:15 <BlueMatt> From what Ive heard, they will take a return of just about any app on ios (and potentially osx) if you just email them
3412 2011-03-21 22:37:17 <Zenith77> Why they charge five dollars if its free on the disc?
3413 2011-03-21 22:37:25 <BlueMatt> and are like yea...already had this didnt work bla bla bla
3414 2011-03-21 22:37:25 <Zenith77> would they*
3415 2011-03-21 22:37:36 <BlueMatt> Zenith77: they want to start charging for it (its the apple way ;)
3416 2011-03-21 22:37:47 doublec has quit ()
3417 2011-03-21 22:38:01 <Zenith77> heh
3418 2011-03-21 22:38:12 <Zenith77> I'll just continue downloading this, I'm far too lazy to start shooting emails around
3419 2011-03-21 22:38:24 <Zenith77> at least I know I'll have the most update version :D
3420 2011-03-21 22:38:39 doublec has joined
3421 2011-03-21 22:40:22 <BlueMatt> ah the joys of linux ;)
3422 2011-03-21 22:40:43 <midnightmagic> is the entire OS/X built with XCode?
3423 2011-03-21 22:41:03 <BlueMatt> probably
3424 2011-03-21 22:41:19 <midnightmagic> i know microsoft doesn't use their own stuff to build windows.
3425 2011-03-21 22:41:30 <BlueMatt> what do they use?
3426 2011-03-21 22:41:31 <midnightmagic> special compilers and non-team foundation scm
3427 2011-03-21 22:41:42 <BlueMatt> wow what a fail
3428 2011-03-21 22:41:52 <BlueMatt> their compilers suck so much they dont even use them
3429 2011-03-21 22:41:59 <midnightmagic> the compiler (last I checked) was a special one they bought up and disappeared from the public marketplace.
3430 2011-03-21 22:42:04 <midnightmagic> just for the kernel.
3431 2011-03-21 22:42:48 Slix` has joined
3432 2011-03-21 22:43:22 RBecker has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3433 2011-03-21 22:44:10 <Zenith77> actually
3434 2011-03-21 22:44:21 <Zenith77> MS is slowly switching over to team foundation
3435 2011-03-21 22:44:31 <midnightmagic> not for their kernel.
3436 2011-03-21 22:44:37 <Zenith77> yes sir :P
3437 2011-03-21 22:44:42 <Zenith77> There be a blog post somewhere about it
3438 2011-03-21 22:44:46 <midnightmagic> and the only thing that really matters is past-tense "switched"
3439 2011-03-21 22:45:10 <Zenith77> Switching source management systems on such a huge project is no easy task
3440 2011-03-21 22:45:31 <Zenith77> but, either way, they are switching over, at least from what I hear
3441 2011-03-21 22:45:33 <midnightmagic> they did it within a month for win2000
3442 2011-03-21 22:46:14 <Zenith77> Well, I don't work with microsoft so I can neither argue either way really
3443 2011-03-21 22:46:19 <Zenith77> but they have stated they are switching over
3444 2011-03-21 22:46:52 <Zenith77> can't*
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3450 2011-03-21 23:02:51 <BlueMatt> anyone who wants to build bitcoin on windows but is having problems: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4750.0
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3473 2011-03-21 23:50:04 <Zenith77> Is there a place to see the total number of blocks on the network?
3474 2011-03-21 23:50:13 <Zenith77> besides my client
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3478 2011-03-21 23:55:05 <jgarzik> TD: agreed -- unspending a TX is a major todo.  mentioned that in the post.
3479 2011-03-21 23:56:34 <theymos> Zenith77: http://blockexplorer.com/q/getblockcount