1 2011-03-23 00:01:01 Necr0s has joined
2 2011-03-23 00:01:56 <Necr0s> ;; bc,calc 992000
3 2011-03-23 00:01:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 992000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 days, 19 hours, 38 minutes, and 9 seconds
4 2011-03-23 00:02:13 <Necr0s> 3d19h huh.
5 2011-03-23 00:02:27 <Necr0s> I've been runing 13d+ now and got nuthin.
6 2011-03-23 00:03:38 <midnightmagic> restart your bitcoind against testnet and verify that your miner can in fact get blocks. it hardly takes any time and you get the verification that things are in fact working.
7 2011-03-23 00:03:56 <Necr0s> Hm.
8 2011-03-23 00:04:15 <Necr0s> It sure appears to be working. It shows 248xxxkhps on each thread.
9 2011-03-23 00:04:16 <midnightmagic> yeah, been there done that got the bald patches.
10 2011-03-23 00:04:26 <midnightmagic> that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
11 2011-03-23 00:04:31 da2ce7 has joined
12 2011-03-23 00:04:34 <Necr0s> If I stop bitcoind it will stop mining right away, and resume when I restart ot./
13 2011-03-23 00:04:44 <Necr0s> I guess testnet is worth a try.
14 2011-03-23 00:04:47 <sipa> should be
15 2011-03-23 00:04:49 <midnightmagic> pretty much. but what's a few minutes or 20 minutes compared to 13+d?
16 2011-03-23 00:04:58 <Necr0s> yea
17 2011-03-23 00:05:02 theorb has joined
18 2011-03-23 00:05:04 <Necr0s> So just -testnet as an arg?
19 2011-03-23 00:05:09 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
20 2011-03-23 00:05:12 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
21 2011-03-23 00:05:28 <midnightmagic> yep. it'll put it under a subdir and everything you don't have to touch anything. but I would backup your .bitcoin dir just in case in between invocations of bitcoind.
22 2011-03-23 00:05:57 <Necr0s> ...too late...
23 2011-03-23 00:06:00 <molecular> slush, Validus, guys, I'm stuck at "publish your torrent at one of the big sites". hell, I can't seem to find any "publish" or "upload" link, wtf
24 2011-03-23 00:06:15 <Necr0s> Hm, 0 connections. Is that right?
25 2011-03-23 00:06:19 <midnightmagic> do you have an account?
26 2011-03-23 00:06:24 <molecular> no
27 2011-03-23 00:06:38 <midnightmagic> make an account and login.
28 2011-03-23 00:06:43 <Necr0s> I need a testnet account?
29 2011-03-23 00:06:51 TheKid has joined
30 2011-03-23 00:06:51 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
31 2011-03-23 00:06:51 TheKid has joined
32 2011-03-23 00:06:54 <midnightmagic> not you. the guy publishing torrents.
33 2011-03-23 00:07:01 <Necr0s> ...got teh url handy?
34 2011-03-23 00:07:08 <Necr0s> oh
35 2011-03-23 00:07:08 <molecular> midnightmagic, which site do you recommend. cause I dont want to make 20 account tonight
36 2011-03-23 00:07:08 <slush> molecular: http://www.mininova.org/apply
37 2011-03-23 00:07:19 <molecular> so you have to register with them?
38 2011-03-23 00:07:35 <midnightmagic> Necr0s: just wait a little bit. what version are you running? it might be too old and trying to talk to old testnet clients..
39 2011-03-23 00:07:37 <Necr0s> Downloading blocks.
40 2011-03-23 00:07:42 <midnightmagic> molecular: thepiratebay.org
41 2011-03-23 00:07:42 <Necr0s> How many blocks are in testnet?
42 2011-03-23 00:07:50 <midnightmagic> http://thepiratebay.org/register
43 2011-03-23 00:07:50 <slush> When I uploaded last time (two years ago? :) ) there was no registration needed
44 2011-03-23 00:07:55 <midnightmagic> Necr0s: good q.. hang on I'll check for you.
45 2011-03-23 00:08:06 <Necr0s> Running 0.3.20.1.
46 2011-03-23 00:08:07 <Validus> whats the command in xchat thats a keyboard press that inverts your color scheme. cuz i hit it and i have no idea what
47 2011-03-23 00:08:09 <Necr0s> on OS X.
48 2011-03-23 00:08:19 <sipa> Necr0s: 11062
49 2011-03-23 00:08:22 <midnightmagic> "blocks" : 11062, <-- testnet blocks.
50 2011-03-23 00:08:23 <Necr0s> thx
51 2011-03-23 00:08:36 <theymos> Testnet block count is available here: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/q/getblockcount
52 2011-03-23 00:08:37 <slush> molecular: oh, mininova has manual confirmation, so it won't be uploaded immediately
53 2011-03-23 00:09:02 <molecular> yeah
54 2011-03-23 00:09:05 <midnightmagic> Necr0s: that's fine then. someone's talking to you, so it doesn't really matter what testnet you're expecting.
55 2011-03-23 00:09:05 <molecular> just applied ;(
56 2011-03-23 00:09:13 <Necr0s> piratebay has been offline a lot for me.
57 2011-03-23 00:09:28 <midnightmagic> ipredator is cheap..
58 2011-03-23 00:09:40 <Necr0s> The website anyway.
59 2011-03-23 00:10:00 <slush> molecular: do you have some DHT connections? Give me the magnet link...
60 2011-03-23 00:10:00 <molecular> if someone here has 30K hosting space I could host there and give link here and in forum?
61 2011-03-23 00:10:14 <Necr0s> I'm already seeing several "accepted" messages, even as it downloads.
62 2011-03-23 00:10:19 <Necr0s> I think the miners are working.
63 2011-03-23 00:10:35 <midnightmagic> hrm. you shouldn't be able to do that. are you sure it's still downloading?
64 2011-03-23 00:10:50 <midnightmagic> maybe my expectations are wrong.
65 2011-03-23 00:10:52 <Necr0s> It stalls some..
66 2011-03-23 00:10:56 thnee has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
67 2011-03-23 00:11:00 <Necr0s> Then resumes.
68 2011-03-23 00:11:03 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
69 2011-03-23 00:11:18 <Necr0s> The miners alternate between showing khps and "downloading blocks".
70 2011-03-23 00:11:43 <midnightmagic> well, you can truly verify it after you kill bitcoin by running: "bitcoind -testnet -printblocktree" and then looking in the testnet debug.log for the keyword "mine"
71 2011-03-23 00:12:09 <kiba> so we're at 13000 posts in this month
72 2011-03-23 00:12:31 <luke-jr> Necr0s: the only way you'd be seeing several "accepted" messages from a miner, is if you're mining on a pool
73 2011-03-23 00:12:50 thnee has joined
74 2011-03-23 00:12:58 <Necr0s> no, it's testnet.
75 2011-03-23 00:13:04 <luke-jr> ah
76 2011-03-23 00:13:16 <midnightmagic> well that's not necessarily so. perhaps he has the head block and bitcoind does in fact start handing out work earlier than I thought it does.
77 2011-03-23 00:13:57 <Necr0s> None of the blocks end up being accepted by bitcoind. They are deemed stale or something once it starts downloading blocks again.
78 2011-03-23 00:14:06 <midnightmagic> ah, good then.
79 2011-03-23 00:14:10 <[Tycho]> "actually hurting your chances of finding a share, since you're scanning only 1/100th (give or take, based on speed) of the hash space before moving on"... oh, he completely fails at probability :(
80 2011-03-23 00:14:11 <midnightmagic> that's more like it.
81 2011-03-23 00:14:27 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: let me guess. either geebus or FairUser.
82 2011-03-23 00:14:32 <midnightmagic> fails more at crypto hash comprehension.
83 2011-03-23 00:14:35 <[Tycho]> geebus
84 2011-03-23 00:15:17 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
85 2011-03-23 00:15:47 <slush> lol
86 2011-03-23 00:15:50 <midnightmagic> but then again, i was operating under that misapprehension for a while until artforz so patiently explained why I was mistaken..
87 2011-03-23 00:15:57 <Necr0s> Is this that "not using up nonce" thing?
88 2011-03-23 00:16:05 <[Tycho]> Yes.
89 2011-03-23 00:16:09 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
90 2011-03-23 00:16:44 <jgarzik> they do love that pseudo-efficiency metric of theirs, too.
91 2011-03-23 00:16:47 <[Tycho]> Well, there IS difference in server load and bandwidth, but about the hurting of chances...
92 2011-03-23 00:17:00 <[Tycho]> That's a lie
93 2011-03-23 00:17:02 <doublec> why don't miners use the entire nonce instead of calling getwork every 5 seconds?
94 2011-03-23 00:17:15 <Necr0s> I hear it's to "stay fresh"
95 2011-03-23 00:17:19 <Necr0s> In case there is a new block.
96 2011-03-23 00:17:27 <midnightmagic> yes, that's exactly it. you don't want to work on lame out-of-date work.
97 2011-03-23 00:17:29 <jgarzik> doublec: you don't want to work on an old block
98 2011-03-23 00:17:35 <doublec> but if a miner was also a halfnode they could detect when a new block is available then do the getwork?
99 2011-03-23 00:17:35 <[Tycho]> There is alrealy long polling for this.
100 2011-03-23 00:17:49 <[Tycho]> No, half node won't completely help.
101 2011-03-23 00:17:57 <doublec> why is that?
102 2011-03-23 00:18:14 <jgarzik> half node or longpoll are equivalent in my eyes
103 2011-03-23 00:18:16 <[Tycho]> Because this half-node and pool can receive new block notice at diffrent times
104 2011-03-23 00:18:40 <doublec> ok, thanks. Just making sure I understand how things work correctly.
105 2011-03-23 00:18:43 <jgarzik> very small window, if you sample widely
106 2011-03-23 00:18:55 <[Tycho]> Just a possibility.
107 2011-03-23 00:18:59 <slush> [Tycho]: well, miner can check if new getwork has another prevhash inside, so it is better than periodic getwork. But of course, not ideal
108 2011-03-23 00:19:16 da2ce7 has joined
109 2011-03-23 00:19:28 <midnightmagic> you can cover that possibility if you are both behind the same net by appropriately increasing your total bitcoind connection count, it seems to me.
110 2011-03-23 00:19:32 <Beremat> eesh, half an hour since the last block
111 2011-03-23 00:19:49 <[Tycho]> There is another reason for getting new work - to include new transaction.
112 2011-03-23 00:19:52 <Necr0s> Do minders continue to compute the current work unit as the next one is being downloaded?
113 2011-03-23 00:20:01 <[Tycho]> It's believed that once per 60 seconds is enough.
114 2011-03-23 00:20:23 <jgarzik> Necr0s: depends on the miner
115 2011-03-23 00:20:29 <luke-jr> jgarzik: it does?
116 2011-03-23 00:20:36 <Necr0s> I guess it would.\
117 2011-03-23 00:20:36 Validus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
118 2011-03-23 00:20:40 <luke-jr> I'd think it would depend on the bitcoind
119 2011-03-23 00:21:34 <Necr0s> I would hope that most implement that.
120 2011-03-23 00:21:38 glassresistor has joined
121 2011-03-23 00:21:50 <glassresistor> liberty reserve can blw me
122 2011-03-23 00:21:55 <Necr0s> Otherwise pool mining would be pretty bad on a high latency connection.
123 2011-03-23 00:21:57 <midnightmagic> what's the matter with LR?
124 2011-03-23 00:22:04 paul0 has joined
125 2011-03-23 00:22:06 <glassresistor> trying to transfer money from mtgox
126 2011-03-23 00:22:16 <glassresistor> and it says LR address not found
127 2011-03-23 00:22:19 <midnightmagic> how is that LR's fault?
128 2011-03-23 00:22:24 <luke-jr> Necr0s: it is :P
129 2011-03-23 00:22:44 <Necr0s> heh
130 2011-03-23 00:22:51 <glassresistor> well im assuming its my fault, but i have no clue how to make it work
131 2011-03-23 00:23:04 <Necr0s> I have a horrible connection.
132 2011-03-23 00:23:21 <molecular> ok, what the hell. will still try to publish on mininova, but here's the torrent: http://www.filedropper.com/whatisbitcoin
133 2011-03-23 00:23:27 <Necr0s> 104178 packets transmitted, 100830 packets received, 3.2% packet loss
134 2011-03-23 00:23:28 <Necr0s> round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 104.452/993.135/58328.195/1570.981 ms
135 2011-03-23 00:23:29 <midnightmagic> you must have just created your LR account. perhaps that's it.
136 2011-03-23 00:23:31 <glassresistor> so i just created an account, do i use my username in mtgox to send cash to my lr account?
137 2011-03-23 00:24:05 <molecular> slush, my transmission doesn't do magnet links, here's the torrent: http://www.filedropper.com/whatisbitcoin
138 2011-03-23 00:24:07 <glassresistor> i created it afew weeks ago but i think i just connected to it for the first time
139 2011-03-23 00:24:31 <molecular> damn, do I need a vps soon ;)
140 2011-03-23 00:24:42 <doublec> molecular: what is it?
141 2011-03-23 00:24:47 <nanotube> muy one with bitcoins, molecular ! :)
142 2011-03-23 00:24:50 <nanotube> buy
143 2011-03-23 00:24:57 <molecular> all kinds of version of "What is Bitcoin" video dled from youtube
144 2011-03-23 00:25:04 <joepie91> LR is... bleh
145 2011-03-23 00:25:10 <molecular> nanotube, yeah, am looking into that ;)
146 2011-03-23 00:25:13 <glassresistor> is there anything i need to do with a lr account to make it work with mtgox? like the account type or security setting
147 2011-03-23 00:25:20 <midnightmagic> LR is quite a bit nicer than a lot of the alternatives.
148 2011-03-23 00:25:31 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
149 2011-03-23 00:25:31 <joepie91> their site is incredibly buggy and shitty :/
150 2011-03-23 00:25:41 <glassresistor> joepie91: agreed
151 2011-03-23 00:25:45 <joepie91> I mean
152 2011-03-23 00:25:47 <slush> molecular: downloading!
153 2011-03-23 00:25:48 <joepie91> I haven't even been able to sign up
154 2011-03-23 00:25:49 <joepie91> for 2 weeks
155 2011-03-23 00:25:53 <joepie91> different random errors every day
156 2011-03-23 00:25:57 <midnightmagic> not for me.. took me about 20 minutes.
157 2011-03-23 00:25:58 <joepie91> I just gave up, lol
158 2011-03-23 00:25:59 <glassresistor> but still for people who are using it, how do you use it with mtgox
159 2011-03-23 00:26:05 <midnightmagic> try with firefox.
160 2011-03-23 00:26:05 phantomcircuit has joined
161 2011-03-23 00:26:16 <glassresistor> in ff3.6 on linux
162 2011-03-23 00:26:18 <midnightmagic> i just type in my account number and withdraw my money.
163 2011-03-23 00:26:27 <midnightmagic> seems to work just fine..
164 2011-03-23 00:26:43 <slush> molecular: better said - I'm connected, but no bytes transferred yet
165 2011-03-23 00:26:52 <molecular> slush, ok
166 2011-03-23 00:26:55 <glassresistor> account number? not username so UXXXXXX
167 2011-03-23 00:27:00 <molecular> 3 peers connected
168 2011-03-23 00:27:03 <midnightmagic> yeah.
169 2011-03-23 00:27:17 <luke-jr> molecular: get a VPS from me :P
170 2011-03-23 00:27:34 <slush> molecular: 3 peers, good time to start seeding something :)
171 2011-03-23 00:27:35 <molecular> luke-jr, how much? link?
172 2011-03-23 00:27:44 <molecular> slush, uploading to someone
173 2011-03-23 00:28:02 <molecular> but extremely slow for some reason
174 2011-03-23 00:28:12 <glassresistor> midnightmagic: that you i was using ascii instead of ints
175 2011-03-23 00:28:19 <luke-jr> molecular: http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps¤cy=BTC
176 2011-03-23 00:28:28 <luke-jr> molecular: but BTC value changes rapidly, so make me an offer :P
177 2011-03-23 00:29:07 <luke-jr> I demand someone find a block -.-
178 2011-03-23 00:29:38 <slush> molecular: magnet link for the torrent is magnet:?xt=urn:btih:NOVEEBJMMEGCP6COMILFURN4MHVG6IRV
179 2011-03-23 00:30:18 <molecular> oh, I just paused all the other torrents. might get more speed soon
180 2011-03-23 00:30:27 <slush> ooooh
181 2011-03-23 00:30:53 <molecular> duh, 100KB/s, I don't even have that kind of upstream
182 2011-03-23 00:31:08 <glassresistor> midnightmagic: ok so now my $ is in lr, how do i get it in a bank account
183 2011-03-23 00:32:51 <glassresistor> i don't regognize any of these exchangers
184 2011-03-23 00:34:47 <[Tycho]> Fees are almost interesting sometimes :) But not in my block :( http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000001fd0fc2da123509ef2e246899f68e281e703b05b76c09b429fc2
185 2011-03-23 00:35:04 <theymos> glassresistor: You should have just traded MtGox$ for PayPal on #bitcoin-otc . You can usually do nearly a 1:1 trade.
186 2011-03-23 00:36:51 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
187 2011-03-23 00:36:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114589 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 322 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 34 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 66986.42710087
188 2011-03-23 00:36:59 <glassresistor> theymos: yeah, it was dumb, i didn't check mtgox and thought it worked with paypal
189 2011-03-23 00:37:06 <glassresistor> im already rated on otr
190 2011-03-23 00:37:21 <glassresistor> otc*
191 2011-03-23 00:37:32 <slush> [Tycho]: great, I almost won back the fees paid during todays pool payouts :))
192 2011-03-23 00:38:11 <Necr0s> I only see 1 peer on this torrent, also with 0%.
193 2011-03-23 00:38:13 <luke-jr> glassresistor: it will soon I think
194 2011-03-23 00:38:44 <tcatm> slush: use sendmany ;)
195 2011-03-23 00:38:52 <slush> tcatm: testing it right now ;)
196 2011-03-23 00:39:02 <tcatm> great
197 2011-03-23 00:39:10 <slush> I'm already relaying sendmany txes
198 2011-03-23 00:39:36 <Necr0s> Now I see more. Cool.
199 2011-03-23 00:39:45 jostmey has left ()
200 2011-03-23 00:43:46 <molecular> Necr0s, it's currently idling here. uploaded 45.9MB
201 2011-03-23 00:44:08 <sipa> can i just download it? :p
202 2011-03-23 00:44:16 <sipa> like, http somewhere
203 2011-03-23 00:44:45 <sipa> otherwise i'll put it on bitcoin.sipa.be after the torrent download finishes
204 2011-03-23 00:44:46 <molecular> I could just make a zip and put it on filedropper... will do
205 2011-03-23 00:46:01 <Blitzboom> molecular: are these the original files?
206 2011-03-23 00:46:17 <[Tycho]> slush, you were paying fees for your payouts ?
207 2011-03-23 00:46:27 <slush> [Tycho]: yes
208 2011-03-23 00:46:58 <sipa> molecular: the original files, or files downloaded from youtube?
209 2011-03-23 00:46:59 <molecular> Blitzboom, no
210 2011-03-23 00:47:04 <molecular> youtube
211 2011-03-23 00:47:08 <sipa> oh ok
212 2011-03-23 00:47:13 <Blitzboom> k, iâll ask justmoon then
213 2011-03-23 00:47:31 <molecular> yeah
214 2011-03-23 00:47:59 <molecular> he didn't answer me on the forum, yet, though
215 2011-03-23 00:49:15 glassresistor has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
216 2011-03-23 00:49:43 glassresistor has joined
217 2011-03-23 00:49:43 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
218 2011-03-23 00:49:43 glassresistor has joined
219 2011-03-23 00:51:33 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r5056fc5a8f0a spesmilo/cashier.py: Handle unexpected bursts of new transactions by growing poll size
220 2011-03-23 00:52:59 wolfspraul has joined
221 2011-03-23 00:54:35 towerX is now known as tower
222 2011-03-23 00:56:13 wolfspraul has quit (Client Quit)
223 2011-03-23 00:56:21 wolfspraul has joined
224 2011-03-23 00:56:22 robotarmy has joined
225 2011-03-23 00:58:54 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 22000
226 2011-03-23 00:58:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 22000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 24 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 57 minutes, and 7 seconds
227 2011-03-23 00:59:05 hahuang65 has quit (lappy!~hahuang65@c-76-126-13-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net|Remote host closed the connection)
228 2011-03-23 00:59:44 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 156000
229 2011-03-23 00:59:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 156000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 3 weeks, 3 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 40 seconds
230 2011-03-23 01:00:24 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 645000
231 2011-03-23 01:00:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 645000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 5 days, 20 hours, 56 minutes, and 5 seconds
232 2011-03-23 01:02:06 aksoo has joined
233 2011-03-23 01:06:30 d4de has joined
234 2011-03-23 01:06:31 d4de has quit (Changing host)
235 2011-03-23 01:06:31 d4de has joined
236 2011-03-23 01:08:46 <Sargun_Screen> anyone here play with financial products in bitcoin
237 2011-03-23 01:10:37 <dirtyfilthy> i've seen people offer call options
238 2011-03-23 01:13:54 devrandom has joined
239 2011-03-23 01:15:56 <Sargun_Screen> Would you put your money into a secured account
240 2011-03-23 01:16:16 <Sargun_Screen> Where your rate would be anywhere between .1-N%
241 2011-03-23 01:16:19 <noagendamarket> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1663664&p=-1&#bottom these people are unbelievable
242 2011-03-23 01:17:03 <dirtyfilthy> Sargun_Screen: i'd have to know more + a lot would depend on trust level
243 2011-03-23 01:17:24 <noagendamarket> its like arguing with the government its pointless lol
244 2011-03-23 01:17:45 <noagendamarket> it makes you understand why things are the way they are though
245 2011-03-23 01:21:07 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
246 2011-03-23 01:22:49 <molecular> "You better put on your tin foil hat." <- at some point it just becomes a bit hard to argue with these people
247 2011-03-23 01:24:24 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
248 2011-03-23 01:24:31 <molecular> just wait until we're called "alpacasock-wearing crypto-hippies"
249 2011-03-23 01:26:10 <Blitzboom> hahaha molecular
250 2011-03-23 01:26:10 <tcatm> nanotube: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10284953/wxgui.png
251 2011-03-23 01:26:47 <Blitzboom> that your wallet?
252 2011-03-23 01:26:51 <tcatm> yep
253 2011-03-23 01:26:57 <Blitzboom> nice
254 2011-03-23 01:27:33 <theymos> It's testnet.
255 2011-03-23 01:27:34 <molecular> envy!
256 2011-03-23 01:27:44 <molecular> undo envy!
257 2011-03-23 01:27:46 <Blitzboom> ah, ok
258 2011-03-23 01:28:06 <luke-jr> hmm
259 2011-03-23 01:28:14 <molecular> so you're the guy driving difficulty on testnet, tcatm ;)
260 2011-03-23 01:28:23 <luke-jr> that's a nice idea, to show self-payment as a single item
261 2011-03-23 01:28:29 <tcatm> I'm changing the GUI. What do you think?
262 2011-03-23 01:28:37 <luke-jr> oh, what does it normally look like? XD
263 2011-03-23 01:28:45 <molecular> looks cleaner
264 2011-03-23 01:28:49 <Blitzboom> i think itâs nice
265 2011-03-23 01:29:08 <tcatm> luke-jr: http://www.bitcoin.org/sites/default/files/screen3.png
266 2011-03-23 01:29:22 <molecular> yeah, screw the sent/received/... tabs
267 2011-03-23 01:29:37 <theymos> Why no "Your Bitcoin address"? I use that all the time.
268 2011-03-23 01:29:51 Venatic` has joined
269 2011-03-23 01:29:53 <luke-jr> ah, Spesmilo copied it
270 2011-03-23 01:30:15 <luke-jr> theymos: to discourage address reuse I presume
271 2011-03-23 01:30:51 <molecular> maybe a "receive coin" next to "send coin" could pop up a fresh address <- nicely consistent ?
272 2011-03-23 01:30:55 <luke-jr> tcatm: I'd add a setting, so clicking New Address can simply go straight to clipboard
273 2011-03-23 01:31:17 <tcatm> that would confuse users
274 2011-03-23 01:31:21 <molecular> and in the popup with the fresh adress, you might as well be able to name it
275 2011-03-23 01:31:23 <aksoo> would there be a problem with combining the debit and credit fields but using + or - icons near the bitcoins sent/received?
276 2011-03-23 01:31:26 <luke-jr> tcatm: how?
277 2011-03-23 01:31:35 <molecular> how is that confusing?
278 2011-03-23 01:31:52 <tcatm> if we didn't show them the address first and just copy it to the clipboard. they wouldn't even notice that
279 2011-03-23 01:32:02 <luke-jr> aksoo: Spesmilo does that
280 2011-03-23 01:32:10 <molecular> I didnt say that
281 2011-03-23 01:32:12 <luke-jr> tcatm: that's why I said a setting for it :p
282 2011-03-23 01:32:15 <luke-jr> defaulting to off
283 2011-03-23 01:32:16 <theymos> I prefer the current UI. I use the tabs and the "your address" area.
284 2011-03-23 01:32:28 <molecular> "receive coins" could open a modal dialog, just like "receive coins"
285 2011-03-23 01:32:38 <molecular> showing the address and an input field to name it
286 2011-03-23 01:32:42 <aksoo> luke-jr: spesmilo?
287 2011-03-23 01:33:00 <tcatm> I want to replace the tabs with check/option boxes.
288 2011-03-23 01:33:21 <luke-jr> aksoo: yeah, http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo
289 2011-03-23 01:33:33 <tcatm> Maybe even add a search box.
290 2011-03-23 01:33:33 <theymos> Checkboxes would be better than tabs.
291 2011-03-23 01:33:48 `Ven has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
292 2011-03-23 01:33:51 <molecular> tcatm, checkboxes in the table headers (debit, credit)?
293 2011-03-23 01:34:09 <tcatm> I'm not sure what do with the "your address" box yet.
294 2011-03-23 01:34:23 <molecular> do away with it
295 2011-03-23 01:34:27 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/screenshots/snapshot61.png
296 2011-03-23 01:34:39 <molecular> it confuses users into thinking they have exactly one address
297 2011-03-23 01:34:43 <tcatm> It's useful, but not easy to understand.
298 2011-03-23 01:34:54 <Blitzboom> molecular: yes, iâve experienced that, too
299 2011-03-23 01:35:03 <Blitzboom> tcatm: exactly like bitcoin, heh
300 2011-03-23 01:35:20 <theymos> One thing I would like is a total for sent and received over all transactions in the current view. This total could also just apply to the currently-selected transactions, if more than one transaction is selected.
301 2011-03-23 01:36:01 <Blitzboom> yeah, thatâd be nice for calculations
302 2011-03-23 01:36:04 <molecular> I kinda like the "receive coins" idea. cause that's usually the workflow: you want a fresh address in your clipboard and also name that address
303 2011-03-23 01:36:57 <molecular> so why not pop open a dialog with the adress displayed, a text-field for the name and a "copy to clipboard" button?
304 2011-03-23 01:37:11 <tcatm> molecular: that's the idea
305 2011-03-23 01:37:14 <[Tycho]> Nice PR skills there... http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4291.msg70132#msg70132
306 2011-03-23 01:37:20 <molecular> tcatm, it is?
307 2011-03-23 01:38:06 doublec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
308 2011-03-23 01:38:07 xenon481 has joined
309 2011-03-23 01:38:16 <tcatm> yep. to encourage users to label all their receiving addresses
310 2011-03-23 01:38:56 niekie has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
311 2011-03-23 01:39:03 <slush> sendmany with one output looks exactly as normal payment, right?
312 2011-03-23 01:39:11 <tcatm> slush: yep
313 2011-03-23 01:39:13 <slush> so it pass thru IsStandard
314 2011-03-23 01:39:20 <tcatm> same for two outputs
315 2011-03-23 01:39:58 <slush> ok. So when there are not enough testnet nodes relaying multitx, recipiend don't see the tx before it is included into block
316 2011-03-23 01:40:00 <slush> correct?
317 2011-03-23 01:40:17 <tcatm> yep
318 2011-03-23 01:40:21 <slush> cool
319 2011-03-23 01:40:27 alystair has joined
320 2011-03-23 01:40:29 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
321 2011-03-23 01:41:24 niekie has joined
322 2011-03-23 01:41:44 <molecular> tcatm, oh god! I totally didn't see the "new address" up there :p
323 2011-03-23 01:43:37 <luke-jr> lol
324 2011-03-23 01:44:08 <tcatm> molecular: it needs an icon
325 2011-03-23 01:44:12 <molecular> yes!
326 2011-03-23 01:44:50 <tcatm> I also renamed Settings -> Generate Coins to Validate Transactions
327 2011-03-23 01:45:12 <molecular> tcatm, brilliant!
328 2011-03-23 01:45:45 <theymos> Bitcoin should display a warning about unprofitability the first time you enable generation.
329 2011-03-23 01:46:07 <luke-jr> the builtin miner should just be stripped out entirely
330 2011-03-23 01:46:10 <luke-jr> but that's another changeset
331 2011-03-23 01:46:29 <molecular> I still opt for renaming "new address" to "receive coins" and move it left of "address book" :p
332 2011-03-23 01:46:49 * luke-jr would put it on the far left, before "send coins"
333 2011-03-23 01:46:55 <luke-jr> since you need to "receive" before someone can sent
334 2011-03-23 01:46:57 <luke-jr> send*
335 2011-03-23 01:47:02 <molecular> luke-jr, also good
336 2011-03-23 01:48:02 <Blitzboom> tcatm: validate transactions could be very missleading
337 2011-03-23 01:48:17 <Blitzboom> people would think they need to leave it on in order to validate their own transactions
338 2011-03-23 01:49:31 <theymos> It should be buried in the settings page so most people don't see it.
339 2011-03-23 01:49:39 <slush> [Tycho]: actually I don't know if it is PR or geebus and fairuser are so dumb
340 2011-03-23 01:49:43 <molecular> "support foreign transactions"
341 2011-03-23 01:50:38 <luke-jr> in case anyone here had that anonymous VPS from me⦠you're 3 days late on payment for this month! contact me to get the VPS back :P
342 2011-03-23 01:50:58 <xenon481> [slush]: I don't understand how both geebus and fairuser can just completely misunderstand everything about how mining truly works.
343 2011-03-23 01:51:14 <luke-jr> â Waste CPU time
344 2011-03-23 01:51:35 <xenon481> They are so deluded in their own heads that they are the only ones that understand anything.
345 2011-03-23 01:51:46 <slush> xenon481: well, they mainly don't need to understand the stuff, they are using tools of other people. Except few stats in poclbm and crippled timeout settings :))
346 2011-03-23 01:52:54 <xenon481> That's the most dangerous type of progammer. One that can change code, but doesn't understand why the code is the way it is.
347 2011-03-23 01:53:24 <molecular> that doesn't only apply to programmers
348 2011-03-23 01:53:51 <theymos> Is FairUser still arguing about mining inefficiency?
349 2011-03-23 01:53:59 <slush> we cannot do nothing with that. Unfortunately they are loud enough to convince other users that they are right :)
350 2011-03-23 01:54:58 <Sargun_Screen> dirtyfilthy: How does one establish trust? An SSL certificate? :P
351 2011-03-23 01:55:10 <Sargun_Screen> dirtyfilthy: I could have corporation B insure the bonds.
352 2011-03-23 01:55:29 <Sargun_Screen> s/bonds/account/
353 2011-03-23 01:55:58 <dirtyfilthy> it'd have to be that kind of scenario
354 2011-03-23 01:56:45 <[Tycho]> "<slush> [Tycho]: actually I don't know if it is PR" - i was talking about the "it is my preference to think you're an ass" part :)
355 2011-03-23 01:57:00 <Sargun_Screen> dirtyfilthy: Are there any insurance companies doing bitcoin
356 2011-03-23 01:57:10 <Sargun_Screen> dirtyfilthy: insurance is a federally regulated industry
357 2011-03-23 01:57:23 <dirtyfilthy> no
358 2011-03-23 01:57:26 <slush> :)
359 2011-03-23 01:58:01 wolfspraul has joined
360 2011-03-23 01:58:10 <xenon481> It took a bit of restraint from me to not respond to that.....
361 2011-03-23 01:58:13 <Sargun_Screen> dirtyfilthy: so you can't insure the account.
362 2011-03-23 01:58:31 <Sargun_Screen> Would you guys buy insurance for bitcoin financial products say?
363 2011-03-23 01:58:45 <slush> I'm screwed with sendmany
364 2011-03-23 01:58:53 <slush> I must be blind or there is some bug
365 2011-03-23 01:58:58 <dirtyfilthy> you can escrow it though, with a party with more trut than you have
366 2011-03-23 01:59:04 <dirtyfilthy> *trust
367 2011-03-23 01:59:23 <tcatm> slush: what's not working?
368 2011-03-23 01:59:47 <slush> I sent few txes to 3 my addresses. The total receiving amount is OK, but I see another addresses in sending "listtransactions" than in incoming GUI
369 2011-03-23 02:00:13 <tcatm> ?
370 2011-03-23 02:00:14 <luke-jr> change?
371 2011-03-23 02:01:04 <slush> total sent 53BTC to mkDNoL7nEsSLNNufvhAmB3YrDVV4RkiUaq (testnet)
372 2011-03-23 02:01:38 <slush> but GUI (receiving part) shows only 13 BTC coming into this wallet
373 2011-03-23 02:02:59 <tcatm> is that tx already in a block?
374 2011-03-23 02:03:12 <slush> yep, I mined it before fe minutes
375 2011-03-23 02:03:14 <slush> few
376 2011-03-23 02:05:05 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/40f65564835b589ad9a72364c03e5b5ee67761c390f040a35fd98b051ffc5fb6 ?
377 2011-03-23 02:05:40 <slush> yes, this one of them
378 2011-03-23 02:05:47 <slush> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/6a8fa8cd8c18f431e57a4e845317d7e96e8df8a75bf9ec2b47607a7cab1dd2b5
379 2011-03-23 02:05:50 <slush> but this is better...
380 2011-03-23 02:06:04 <slush> mry... and mkD are both my address in one client
381 2011-03-23 02:06:15 <slush> and I see that as one incoming payment
382 2011-03-23 02:06:39 <slush> that's the reason why listtransaction from sending side does not fit the incoming side
383 2011-03-23 02:08:18 <necrodearia> update: posts in any category under nsfw parent category no longer appears on home page results.
384 2011-03-23 02:08:31 <slush> that's pretty counter intuitive, but I finally understand what happen
385 2011-03-23 02:10:50 n00bie has joined
386 2011-03-23 02:11:17 <jgarzik> slush: do you use xlisttransactions?
387 2011-03-23 02:11:42 <slush> no, should I?
388 2011-03-23 02:12:10 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
389 2011-03-23 02:12:31 <molecular> tcatm, bitcoincharts is awesome, will have to donate :p
390 2011-03-23 02:12:58 <jgarzik> slush: it's a patch, but some people prefer those results. Here is an output from a miner box: http://pastebin.com/V1c4t3eT
391 2011-03-23 02:13:04 <jgarzik> s/miner/pool server/
392 2011-03-23 02:14:02 <slush> jgarzik: it's similar like listtransactions in .21, right?
393 2011-03-23 02:14:23 <slush> or I'm dumb because I don't see difference :)
394 2011-03-23 02:15:18 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
395 2011-03-23 02:15:32 <tcatm> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10284953/wxgui2.png
396 2011-03-23 02:15:43 <jgarzik> slush: vaguely... xlisttransactions attempts to reproduce the same transaction list as you would see it in the GUI. Unlike listtransactions, unconfirmed generated blocks are shown.
397 2011-03-23 02:16:06 <slush> oh, that's good point
398 2011-03-23 02:16:06 <jgarzik> xlisttransactions is not as tied to account system as listtransactions. I don't really use accounts.
399 2011-03-23 02:16:11 <slush> Thanks, I'll merge it
400 2011-03-23 02:16:18 <slush> me too
401 2011-03-23 02:16:31 <jgarzik> slush: it is maintained at jgarzik/bitcoin.git#xlisttransactions, if you use git
402 2011-03-23 02:16:46 <slush> I'll take a look
403 2011-03-23 02:17:10 kiba` has joined
404 2011-03-23 02:17:57 <Blitzboom> tcatm: why would you need an exit button?
405 2011-03-23 02:18:38 <Blitzboom> but apart from that, i think this is great
406 2011-03-23 02:19:16 <Blitzboom> ok, one more detail: why doesnât payment to oyourself actually show the payment?
407 2011-03-23 02:19:32 <Blitzboom> iâd like to know what i transferred to myself
408 2011-03-23 02:20:07 <theymos> Bitcoin can't distinguish between change and non-change in payments to self, so the amount isn't known sometimes.
409 2011-03-23 02:20:09 <tcatm> The net amount is zero. What should I show? :)
410 2011-03-23 02:20:35 <Blitzboom> sure it is, but transactions arenât about balance
411 2011-03-23 02:20:47 <Blitzboom> theymos: hmm, alright
412 2011-03-23 02:20:47 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
413 2011-03-23 02:23:00 <tcatm> Those "payments to yourself" are actually payments where I sent coins to one of my own addresses so bitcoin knows the credit and debit.
414 2011-03-23 02:23:15 <tcatm> see http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10284953/wxgui.png
415 2011-03-23 02:24:29 <Blitzboom> why not keep it that way?
416 2011-03-23 02:24:43 <Blitzboom> confusing?
417 2011-03-23 02:25:30 <theymos> Bitcoin doesn't always know the credits and debits: http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/384/selfv.png
418 2011-03-23 02:26:11 <molecular> I wouldn't remove the menu, gn8
419 2011-03-23 02:34:00 JohnnyFusion has joined
420 2011-03-23 02:35:36 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
421 2011-03-23 02:38:31 JohnnyFusion has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
422 2011-03-23 02:39:18 <kiba`> Kiba versus The Pickle Jar
423 2011-03-23 02:43:03 glassresistor has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
424 2011-03-23 02:44:30 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
425 2011-03-23 02:44:45 wolfspraul has joined
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427 2011-03-23 02:49:54 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
428 2011-03-23 02:49:59 phantomcircuit_ has joined
429 2011-03-23 02:50:14 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r67c4a3a1de1e spesmilo/i18n/eo_EO.ts: update eo_EO to the best of my minimal ability
430 2011-03-23 02:50:45 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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432 2011-03-23 02:51:06 phantomcircuit has joined
433 2011-03-23 02:54:42 <slush> what's the syntax for sendmany in shell?
434 2011-03-23 02:55:28 <luke-jr> IIRC a=b,c=d
435 2011-03-23 02:55:36 <luke-jr> it's not documented in help?
436 2011-03-23 02:55:49 Stellar has joined
437 2011-03-23 02:55:54 <slush> sendmany <fromaccount> {address:amount,...}
438 2011-03-23 02:55:57 <slush> but this does not work
439 2011-03-23 02:57:16 <xenon481> So, now geebus is saying that the mining programs are all flawed and don't produce results correctly out of the first 1% of a getwork.
440 2011-03-23 02:58:19 <theymos> Wasn't this all already discussed months ago? https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3076.0
441 2011-03-23 02:59:24 <jgarzik> slush: are you quoting properly?
442 2011-03-23 03:00:09 <slush> I don't know what is 'properly'
443 2011-03-23 03:00:15 <jgarzik> bitcoind -datadir=/garz/bitcoin/data sendmany 'xf2_fees' '{"1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU":0.03, "1HmxACRTTh6ryRaJoUAjuLYDKzyQdSRUbv" : 0.02, "17wt3PdqNBoMAa9mQis3qcEr4biu1cDJtf" : 0.01 }'
444 2011-03-23 03:00:40 <slush> hm, i used quotes in reversed order
445 2011-03-23 03:00:45 <slush> " in outer and ' in inner
446 2011-03-23 03:00:48 <jgarzik> slush: characters like '{' must be escaped, otherwise you are programming the shell
447 2011-03-23 03:02:46 Slix` has joined
448 2011-03-23 03:04:12 <slush> jgarzik: great, it works with switched quotes
449 2011-03-23 03:06:18 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
450 2011-03-23 03:08:21 <nanotube> tcatm: looks good to me :)
451 2011-03-23 03:10:27 bitcoiner has joined
452 2011-03-23 03:21:56 <da2ce7> ;;bc,help
453 2011-03-23 03:21:56 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
454 2011-03-23 03:22:12 <da2ce7> ;;help
455 2011-03-23 03:22:13 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
456 2011-03-23 03:22:29 <da2ce7> ;;seen Fellow-Traveler
457 2011-03-23 03:22:29 <gribble> I have not seen Fellow-Traveler.
458 2011-03-23 03:23:29 <nanotube> tcatm: and feel free to credit me for the idea of removing the 'your address' text box, if it does get merged :D
459 2011-03-23 03:24:36 <theymos> da2ce7: He uses "FellowTraveler", I believe.
460 2011-03-23 03:25:39 <nanotube> tcatm: and an idea for filtering the tx list: place check boxes in debit and credit table headers. both checked by default, can uncheck one or the other to filter debit/credit. then also can put in a text filter box to search by text (which would search address/label)
461 2011-03-23 03:26:59 kupo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
462 2011-03-23 03:27:02 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
463 2011-03-23 03:28:10 <jgarzik> wow, my tiny little 2G pool sure is lucky in the past 24 hrs
464 2011-03-23 03:28:22 <xenon481> Thank you, slush, for that awesome reply.
465 2011-03-23 03:28:38 <slush> yw
466 2011-03-23 03:30:09 kiba` is now known as kiba
467 2011-03-23 03:32:05 kupo has joined
468 2011-03-23 03:34:41 <Sean93> why is the score for my worker 0 even though ive been mining all day
469 2011-03-23 03:35:17 <slush> Sean93: score is calculated on end of every round
470 2011-03-23 03:35:22 <slush> Sean93: and then set back to zero
471 2011-03-23 03:35:32 <slush> Check Statistics page for your reward from every block
472 2011-03-23 03:36:11 <nanotube> jgarzik: how many blocks? :)
473 2011-03-23 03:38:01 <Sean93> why are all my reward 0.00000000000 BTC??
474 2011-03-23 03:38:27 <slush> jgarzik: I'm mining almost two weeks with 1.1ghash rig and didn't find a block yet
475 2011-03-23 03:38:48 <slush> Sean93: don't have an idea. how much Mhash/s do you have?
476 2011-03-23 03:39:15 <Sean93> like 0.5 :D
477 2011-03-23 03:39:30 <slush> it's really zero? Or something really small?
478 2011-03-23 03:39:36 <Sean93> 0
479 2011-03-23 03:39:48 <slush> do you see some submitted shares in your miner?
480 2011-03-23 03:39:50 Validus has joined
481 2011-03-23 03:40:07 <slush> ok, tell me your nick, please
482 2011-03-23 03:40:19 <Sean93> chronic
483 2011-03-23 03:41:47 <slush> hm, you didn't submitted single share
484 2011-03-23 03:41:53 <slush> a) You're unlucky
485 2011-03-23 03:41:58 <slush> b) Something is broken on your side
486 2011-03-23 03:42:26 <slush> the worker was connected whole day?
487 2011-03-23 03:42:37 <Sean93> most of it
488 2011-03-23 03:42:59 <slush> hm, 0.5Mhash is really poor
489 2011-03-23 03:43:06 <slush> one share in 2 hours in average
490 2011-03-23 03:43:10 <Validus> cpu?
491 2011-03-23 03:43:11 <slush> so 12 shares per day
492 2011-03-23 03:43:46 <slush> but if you was connected only part of the time, then have no share isn't so much impossible
493 2011-03-23 03:44:01 <Sean93> what do you mean?
494 2011-03-23 03:44:10 <slush> I mean this can be normal :)
495 2011-03-23 03:44:16 <slush> with your... hrm... speed
496 2011-03-23 03:44:20 <Sean93> lol
497 2011-03-23 03:45:03 <slush> but check your miner if it is really connected
498 2011-03-23 03:45:13 <slush> do you see some errors?
499 2011-03-23 03:45:20 <Sean93> no
500 2011-03-23 03:45:30 <Sean93> [2011-02-23 03:44:12] thread 0: 2258882 hashes, 589.13 khash/sec
501 2011-03-23 03:45:30 <Sean93> [2011-02-23 03:44:17] thread 0: 2823602 hashes, 584.99 khash/sec
502 2011-03-23 03:45:34 <slush> hm, then I hope you're lucky at least in the love
503 2011-03-23 03:45:48 <Sean93> if only :P
504 2011-03-23 03:46:11 Diablo-D3 has joined
505 2011-03-23 03:46:34 <slush> [Tycho]: do you accept sendmany?
506 2011-03-23 03:46:48 <slush> who nobody wants my multi transaction?
507 2011-03-23 03:46:50 * slush crying
508 2011-03-23 03:47:02 <slush> s/who/why/
509 2011-03-23 03:47:11 <Validus> there an advantage to running bitcoind? or should i just do bitcoin --server
510 2011-03-23 03:47:22 <Validus> gui means nothing really
511 2011-03-23 03:48:14 <[Tycho]> slush, i will accept sendmany after next bitcoind restart. Or already do.
512 2011-03-23 03:48:54 <theymos> blockexplorer.com has always relayed sendmany transactions (and all other non-standard transactions).
513 2011-03-23 03:49:30 <slush> shame on all of you
514 2011-03-23 03:49:36 <slush> I had to include my own txs
515 2011-03-23 03:49:53 <slush> :)
516 2011-03-23 03:49:55 <slush> Good night
517 2011-03-23 03:50:04 <Validus> n/m
518 2011-03-23 03:50:08 <[Tycho]> I just don't remember if i did it after compiling or before.
519 2011-03-23 03:51:08 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
520 2011-03-23 03:51:27 Sean93 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
521 2011-03-23 03:54:09 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r4dfa33d66a0d spesmilo/i18n/eo_EO.ts: correct eo_EO lang attr
522 2011-03-23 03:55:04 doublec has joined
523 2011-03-23 03:55:08 doublec has quit (Changing host)
524 2011-03-23 03:55:08 doublec has joined
525 2011-03-23 03:55:25 <da2ce7> ;;seen FellowTraveler
526 2011-03-23 03:55:25 <gribble> FellowTraveler was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 18 hours, 57 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <FellowTraveler> hi all
527 2011-03-23 03:58:36 * da2ce7 has the slowest internet in the world... :O 95%+ loss...
528 2011-03-23 03:58:46 <da2ce7> "(
529 2011-03-23 03:58:47 <da2ce7> :(
530 2011-03-23 03:58:59 * da2ce7 cannot wait for new downloads.
531 2011-03-23 04:00:37 meelu has joined
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533 2011-03-23 04:01:49 nomnomnom is now known as baaaaaacon
534 2011-03-23 04:04:54 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
535 2011-03-23 04:06:08 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
536 2011-03-23 04:06:11 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r4dfa33d66a0d spesmilo/i18n/eo_EO.ts: correct eo_EO lang attr
537 2011-03-23 04:06:27 <luke-jr> oh, I was just in the wrong channel last time
538 2011-03-23 04:07:53 aksoo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
539 2011-03-23 04:11:51 <meeper> would people be interested in a more robust bounty web service btw?
540 2011-03-23 04:15:14 xenon481 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
541 2011-03-23 04:15:40 <meelu> i got 80k blocks in under an hour is this usual?
542 2011-03-23 04:15:46 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
543 2011-03-23 04:16:06 <[Tycho]> meelu, it's chain downloading.
544 2011-03-23 04:16:22 <meelu> sorry what is?
545 2011-03-23 04:16:25 sgornick has joined
546 2011-03-23 04:16:45 <theymos> You're downloading every block ever generated in the past. There are: ,,bc,blocks
547 2011-03-23 04:16:45 <gribble> 114613
548 2011-03-23 04:17:10 <meelu> 114609
549 2011-03-23 04:17:24 <kiba> I don't understand socialists
550 2011-03-23 04:17:27 <luke-jr> meeper: give genjix a break, he literally JUST wrote it
551 2011-03-23 04:17:37 <[Tycho]> theymos, are you the author of bitcoinmonitor ?
552 2011-03-23 04:17:38 <luke-jr> meeper: I'm sure he'd accept patches too
553 2011-03-23 04:17:47 <theymos> [Tycho]: No.
554 2011-03-23 04:17:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you mean #bitcoin-watch ?
555 2011-03-23 04:18:05 <[Tycho]> No.
556 2011-03-23 04:18:31 <meeper> luke-jr: I saw genjix's stuff. not a big fan of php. but perhaps bounty is the wrong word. I mean something more general where two parties agree to terms and payment is made automatically X
557 2011-03-23 04:18:51 <meelu> big fan of python here
558 2011-03-23 04:18:52 <meeper> luke-jr: the sort of thing you might want if you, say, wanted somebody to design a web site and pay them in btc
559 2011-03-23 04:19:20 <meeper> luke-jr: perhaps something like this already exists? or is this all done through the marketplces and free form convos?
560 2011-03-23 04:19:37 <luke-jr> meeper: that's an escrow
561 2011-03-23 04:19:40 <luke-jr> ClearCoin
562 2011-03-23 04:20:25 ElectRo` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
563 2011-03-23 04:20:36 <meeper> luke-jr: yeah, similar to escrow, though not so much focused on the exchange of physical products as the completion of work. and it may not require all the money up front. terms and milestones might be a little more flexible
564 2011-03-23 04:20:43 discHead has joined
565 2011-03-23 04:20:44 ElectRo` has joined
566 2011-03-23 04:20:55 <luke-jr> meeper: I don't see a difference.
567 2011-03-23 04:21:12 <luke-jr> unless you're acting as a mediator
568 2011-03-23 04:21:28 <meelu> i can't run generate coins on multiple machines can i?
569 2011-03-23 04:21:35 <meeper> luke-jr: as a mediator, gate keeper, reputation provider, and ultimately market maker
570 2011-03-23 04:21:38 <kiba> noagendamarket: so you organized a bitcoin mining company, right? Did it ever go anywhere?
571 2011-03-23 04:21:53 <luke-jr> meelu: you can, but it's worthless on a CPU
572 2011-03-23 04:22:33 <meelu> how so?
573 2011-03-23 04:22:36 <noagendamarket> kiba thats on a need to know basis :)
574 2011-03-23 04:22:37 <meeper> luke-jr: does something like this not exist? I thought a common use-case for btc was tapping web/software talent
575 2011-03-23 04:22:41 <luke-jr> meelu: CPUs are too crappy
576 2011-03-23 04:23:15 <meelu> i wanted to run it on my server as its up 24/7
577 2011-03-23 04:23:17 <nanotube> meeper: costs more in electricity than you get out in bitcoins. if you don't pay for electricity, then it's anoter story.
578 2011-03-23 04:23:21 <luke-jr> meeper: it's not needed for cash, I don't see why it should be needed for bitcoins
579 2011-03-23 04:23:47 <luke-jr> meelu: most VPS providers consider it violation of ToS note
580 2011-03-23 04:23:52 <luke-jr> and again, it's worthless
581 2011-03-23 04:24:00 <luke-jr> mining is only worthwhile if you have a decent Radeon
582 2011-03-23 04:24:02 <meelu> server man server not a vps
583 2011-03-23 04:24:22 <luke-jr> meelu: then if you don't pay the electricity bill, your server can make you some bitpennies
584 2011-03-23 04:24:25 <meeper> luke-jr: hmm, that's a good point, I guess I was thinking that btc's frictionless nature might be a real value-add
585 2011-03-23 04:24:42 <meelu> btw i was actually imagining how to profit from generating power at home today and i saw an article on reddit about bitcoin lol
586 2011-03-23 04:25:10 <meeper> luke-jr: I'm in the market to hire a bunch of web monkeys and I kinda like the idea of paying them in btc and not worrying too much about a bunch of other stuff
587 2011-03-23 04:25:22 <meelu> come up with a way to generate a few 100watts of power for free
588 2011-03-23 04:25:30 <meelu> 2: profit
589 2011-03-23 04:25:42 <luke-jr> meelu: or just buy a good Radeon
590 2011-03-23 04:25:45 <da2ce7> meelu, well maybe I can pay them better than you...
591 2011-03-23 04:26:06 <meelu> i need to look into that radeon
592 2011-03-23 04:26:18 * da2ce7 gets back to his design breifs.
593 2011-03-23 04:26:26 <luke-jr> da2ce7: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/
594 2011-03-23 04:26:32 <nanotube> meelu: a 5970 gives you 600mhps, at a power consumption of 300W or so.
595 2011-03-23 04:26:33 <meelu> i havent even cared about graphics cards before
596 2011-03-23 04:26:47 <nanotube> meelu: compare a cpu, the best of which may give you 10-15mhps, at a cost of 100W or so.
597 2011-03-23 04:26:53 <meelu> but it seems we will have alot of fun
598 2011-03-23 04:27:22 <meelu> seems efficient
599 2011-03-23 04:27:33 <meelu> any other graphics cards
600 2011-03-23 04:27:39 <meelu> can i recycle old ones
601 2011-03-23 04:27:44 <luke-jr> nanotube: lol, maybe a super-high-end CPU would give you that much
602 2011-03-23 04:27:47 * da2ce7 earns 13BTC a day.
603 2011-03-23 04:27:58 <luke-jr> meelu: old ones can do better than a CPU, but not profitable
604 2011-03-23 04:27:59 <da2ce7> *mines
605 2011-03-23 04:28:10 <meeper> da2ce7: with what?
606 2011-03-23 04:28:18 <luke-jr> meelu: assuming you don't mean AGP
607 2011-03-23 04:28:20 <da2ce7> my computer
608 2011-03-23 04:28:22 <nanotube> luke-jr: yea, like a recent quad-core (or was it octo-core?)
609 2011-03-23 04:28:27 <meelu> well profit if i have old unused cpu's from people and shit generating electricity in my garden lol
610 2011-03-23 04:28:36 <luke-jr> nanotube: I have a Sandy Bridge quad-core, and it can only do like 5 MH/s
611 2011-03-23 04:28:49 <nanotube> meelu: question: how much does it cost to set up the rigs to generate your own electricity?
612 2011-03-23 04:28:51 <luke-jr> nanotube: probably due to not having an optimized miner yet :/
613 2011-03-23 04:29:06 <meelu> dunno i haven't gotten to the stage where i generate the electricity
614 2011-03-23 04:29:13 <nanotube> ah, maybe. bet you can get quite a bit higher with the latest cpuminer
615 2011-03-23 04:29:27 <luke-jr> does it support AVX yet?
616 2011-03-23 04:29:33 <meelu> just picturing a system
617 2011-03-23 04:29:46 <nanotube> meelu: well, just saying that however much it'd cost... compare it to the cost/benefit of acquiring some recent radeons and mining with grid power. :)
618 2011-03-23 04:30:16 <nanotube> i dunno what the cpuminer supports really, i don't cpumine anymore :)
619 2011-03-23 04:30:34 <meelu> lets say this one "Asus 1gb Radeon Hd 5670 Pci-E 2.0 Graphics Card" i saw on ebay
620 2011-03-23 04:30:38 <meelu> how much could it generate?
621 2011-03-23 04:30:52 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
622 2011-03-23 04:31:02 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 71000
623 2011-03-23 04:31:04 <da2ce7> shouldn't we remove the 'generate' option fromt the bitcoin GUI?
624 2011-03-23 04:31:04 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 71000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 0.937263329896 BTC per day and 0.0390526387457 BTC per hour.
625 2011-03-23 04:31:20 <luke-jr> da2ce7: from bitcoind too
626 2011-03-23 04:31:52 <da2ce7> luke-jr, I agree. bitcoind is no place for a miner.
627 2011-03-23 04:31:55 <meelu> so that should pay off the card in 2 months
628 2011-03-23 04:32:06 <luke-jr> meelu: no, in 2 weeks it will become less
629 2011-03-23 04:32:10 <luke-jr> then 2 weeks later
630 2011-03-23 04:32:11 <luke-jr> and so on
631 2011-03-23 04:32:14 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
632 2011-03-23 04:32:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.82,"low":0.7447,"vol":11999,"buy":0.7831,"sell":0.819,"last":0.819}}
633 2011-03-23 04:32:24 <gasteve> rally!
634 2011-03-23 04:32:28 <da2ce7> :)
635 2011-03-23 04:32:30 <da2ce7> yepo!
636 2011-03-23 04:32:38 <luke-jr> nanotube: nope, just 4.1 MH/s wiht latest cpuminer
637 2011-03-23 04:32:39 <Blitzboom> http://www.weusecoins.com/
638 2011-03-23 04:32:51 <Blitzboom> this will support it, hopefully
639 2011-03-23 04:32:52 <da2ce7> people are buying again... looks like new funds have been added to mtgox
640 2011-03-23 04:32:57 <meelu> does it become less for each user?
641 2011-03-23 04:32:57 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: yeah
642 2011-03-23 04:33:06 <theymos> I agree about removing "generate coins". I don't want people to start mining unprofitably, since this would force more efficient miners out of the market.
643 2011-03-23 04:33:09 <meelu> or less for the whole network
644 2011-03-23 04:33:10 <nanotube> luke-jr: maybe try different algos?
645 2011-03-23 04:33:12 <luke-jr> meelu: there's a total of 50 BTC every 10 minutes on average
646 2011-03-23 04:33:17 <luke-jr> meelu: split among all miners
647 2011-03-23 04:33:28 <meelu> so the more miners the less
648 2011-03-23 04:33:28 <nanotube> luke-jr: also tweak the numthreads
649 2011-03-23 04:33:39 <meelu> or does that 50 figure increase
650 2011-03-23 04:34:15 <meelu> il carry on reading the wiki if im asking a little too much lol
651 2011-03-23 04:34:25 <luke-jr> meelu: that 50 figure drops to 25 in a few months
652 2011-03-23 04:34:47 <theymos> A few months?
653 2011-03-23 04:35:00 <luke-jr> theymos: yeah, isn't it early 2012?
654 2011-03-23 04:35:05 <da2ce7> theymos, atlest have a popup that says 'the dificuty is over 10000, it is unproffitable to mine with this bitcoin client, please check "website url" for details'
655 2011-03-23 04:35:08 <meelu> btw whats going to happen to the currency when quantum processors come out
656 2011-03-23 04:35:43 <meelu> ?
657 2011-03-23 04:35:57 <theymos> luke-jr: I guess it is less than a year.
658 2011-03-23 04:35:58 <da2ce7> neelu, not much
659 2011-03-23 04:36:02 <meelu> they will use electricity too i guess
660 2011-03-23 04:36:23 <meelu> but there will be unlimited
661 2011-03-23 04:36:29 <da2ce7> we just move to sha512 or sha4096
662 2011-03-23 04:36:40 <meelu> i dunno how many coins can i generate with a quantum processor?
663 2011-03-23 04:37:07 <da2ce7> meelu, very fast, if you had one..
664 2011-03-23 04:37:19 <luke-jr> meelu: at most 50 per 10 mins
665 2011-03-23 04:37:42 <meelu> hmm what if 2 people with quantum processors generated?#
666 2011-03-23 04:37:43 <da2ce7> luke-jr, in the long run.
667 2011-03-23 04:37:49 <luke-jr> meelu: then half, at most
668 2011-03-23 04:38:07 n00bie_ has joined
669 2011-03-23 04:38:18 <da2ce7> if you had an extremely big computer you could protentaly steal other people coins.
670 2011-03-23 04:38:28 <luke-jr> da2ce7: the whole system would break down first
671 2011-03-23 04:38:31 <da2ce7> but that is much harder to do.
672 2011-03-23 04:39:29 <da2ce7> but anyway, this is scince fiction.
673 2011-03-23 04:39:46 <meelu> i can picture people behind botnets using this for profit, running a program on everyones computer to generate and sending himself bitcoiins
674 2011-03-23 04:40:06 <meelu> i feel a sudden urge to do it now
675 2011-03-23 04:40:07 <da2ce7> yeap.
676 2011-03-23 04:40:23 <gasteve> meelu: I think it's already been done (at least that's the speculation)
677 2011-03-23 04:40:26 <da2ce7> but they will need to have MANY computers, as botnets don't normaly use gpu's
678 2011-03-23 04:40:46 <meelu> are there any javascript implementations of bitcoins being generated
679 2011-03-23 04:40:55 <luke-jr> nanotube: nope, 4.1 MH/s is the best it yields
680 2011-03-23 04:41:01 <meelu> i mean is it possible to run with javascript
681 2011-03-23 04:41:01 <da2ce7> meelu, from memory, it is very slow.
682 2011-03-23 04:41:21 <da2ce7> meelu, it is better to use the browser built-in cypto functions.
683 2011-03-23 04:41:22 <da2ce7> I guss.
684 2011-03-23 04:41:33 <luke-jr> da2ce7: how about WebGL?
685 2011-03-23 04:41:59 <da2ce7> luke-jr, I beleve that there is WebCL also
686 2011-03-23 04:42:05 <meelu> stuck at 92937 blocks...
687 2011-03-23 04:42:23 <da2ce7> it is in planning.
688 2011-03-23 04:43:02 <luke-jr> meelu: I dont suppose you're using OSX?
689 2011-03-23 04:43:02 <meelu> "Optional transaction fee per kb..." this part is confusing in the program and i think should be explained more
690 2011-03-23 04:43:05 <sgornick> Can you digg it? er... give it a vote? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/g99it/what_is_bitcoin_professional_animated_video/
691 2011-03-23 04:43:20 <luke-jr> meelu: you can choose not to include a tx fee, but your tx might never get confirmed
692 2011-03-23 04:43:20 <meelu> nope windows and linux
693 2011-03-23 04:43:46 <meelu> how is that?
694 2011-03-23 04:43:55 <luke-jr> â¦
695 2011-03-23 04:44:07 <meelu> and the fees, where do they go does some lucky guy get it?
696 2011-03-23 04:44:09 <sgornick> [Tycho]: > theymos, are you the author of bitcoinmonitor ?
697 2011-03-23 04:44:09 <sgornick> ;;bc,wiki bitcoin monitor
698 2011-03-23 04:44:10 <luke-jr> meelu: why should I confirm your transaction, if you're not paying me?
699 2011-03-23 04:44:10 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin:Community_portal | Mar 4, 2011 ... Bitcoin Charts displays an overview of Bitcoin exchange markets. The Bitcoin Monitor visualizes transactions, new blocks and trades on ...
700 2011-03-23 04:44:18 <luke-jr> meelu: the miner who confirms the tx gets it
701 2011-03-23 04:44:29 <sgornick> er. .. wrong link gribble
702 2011-03-23 04:44:37 <meeper> luke-jr: you mean the first miner to confirm the tx?
703 2011-03-23 04:44:46 <luke-jr> meeper: yes, the only one
704 2011-03-23 04:44:58 <meelu> ah so its not just the 50 per 10 minutes flying about?
705 2011-03-23 04:45:04 <sgornick> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Monitor http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3218.0 a person on the forum "jav".
706 2011-03-23 04:45:23 <meeper> that video is very nifty
707 2011-03-23 04:45:27 <luke-jr> meelu: that 50 drops to 25 next year, then to 12.5 two years later, and so on
708 2011-03-23 04:45:27 <kiba> ROFL
709 2011-03-23 04:45:33 <luke-jr> meelu: it will eventually go away completely
710 2011-03-23 04:45:40 <luke-jr> at which time miners will be paid entirely be fees
711 2011-03-23 04:45:45 <kiba> http://www.dailypaul.com/160149/bitcoins-the-digital-cryptocurrency-of-freedom
712 2011-03-23 04:45:47 <[Tycho]> I wonder why this page keeps crashing in Chrome after some tens of minutes
713 2011-03-23 04:45:48 <meeper> though one day people are going to have to stop explaining what bitcoins are and start explaining what they're good for hehe
714 2011-03-23 04:45:49 <kiba> some guy named troy
715 2011-03-23 04:45:53 <meelu> ah good
716 2011-03-23 04:45:57 <meelu> njow i get it
717 2011-03-23 04:45:59 <meelu> was confusing
718 2011-03-23 04:46:04 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: crashes Konqueror too
719 2011-03-23 04:46:05 <kiba> claimed that Steve Gibson of grc.com wrote bitcoin
720 2011-03-23 04:46:07 <da2ce7> luke-jr, prob we will move to absolute accuracy numbers for coins by then
721 2011-03-23 04:46:14 <meelu> so the more popular this gets, there are still potentials of earning
722 2011-03-23 04:46:17 <da2ce7> so you can send 1/3 BTC
723 2011-03-23 04:46:17 <kiba> and since he wrote bitcoin, it must be bad
724 2011-03-23 04:46:25 <luke-jr> da2ce7: that's impossible with bitcoin
725 2011-03-23 04:46:34 <luke-jr> da2ce7: you would need to use ZBC for that
726 2011-03-23 04:46:50 <kiba> that's nut
727 2011-03-23 04:46:51 discHead has quit (Quit: discHead)
728 2011-03-23 04:47:10 <meeper> kiba: is there a list of common bitcoin use cases?
729 2011-03-23 04:47:29 <luke-jr> meeper: there aren't many :P
730 2011-03-23 04:47:37 <da2ce7> luke-jr we will move to a system where bitcoin as expressed as a 128BIT number where you have a 64BIT domonator and neumerator.
731 2011-03-23 04:47:58 <luke-jr> da2ce7: that would be a new version, incompatible with the current one
732 2011-03-23 04:48:14 <meeper> luke-jr: besides charities, buying drugs, hiring free lancers, and bounties (to further along bitcoin devel) ... I'd be very curious to hear other 'success' stories or use cases
733 2011-03-23 04:48:25 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck are you captializing bit
734 2011-03-23 04:48:25 <da2ce7> hmm, prob phased in over a long time... where you would store the money in two forms.
735 2011-03-23 04:48:35 <nanotube> meeper: webhosting is a big one.
736 2011-03-23 04:48:38 <da2ce7> :/
737 2011-03-23 04:48:47 <nanotube> meeper: check out the trade page for a listing
738 2011-03-23 04:48:53 <meelu> VCQ6000-PB - PNY NVIDIA Quadro 6000 - graphics adapter
739 2011-03-23 04:48:55 <meeper> nanotube: is it? that's cool. a lot of hosting providers take it
740 2011-03-23 04:49:04 <meelu> is that useable?
741 2011-03-23 04:49:09 <da2ce7> neelu, sexyfur takes btc.
742 2011-03-23 04:49:17 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki trade page
743 2011-03-23 04:49:17 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade | [edit] Search Engines Optimization. Trade-Web.com, Buy/Sell contextual links for SEO purposes. .... This page was last modified on 21 March 2011, at 18:12. ...
744 2011-03-23 04:49:24 <nanotube> meelu: ^ that page i mentioned. :)
745 2011-03-23 04:49:30 <da2ce7> i con't particualy like it, but you might.
746 2011-03-23 04:49:38 <da2ce7> *don't
747 2011-03-23 04:49:54 <luke-jr> meeper: well, I have one, but everyone hates me for it
748 2011-03-23 04:50:08 <luke-jr> s/everyone/lots of people/
749 2011-03-23 04:50:30 <meeper> luke-jr: what is it?
750 2011-03-23 04:50:30 <meelu> nanotube thanks for that link but couldn't find it in the list
751 2011-03-23 04:50:32 <sgornick> luke-jr, theymos: > luke-jr: meelu: that 50 drops to 25 next year, then to 12.5 two years later, and so on
752 2011-03-23 04:50:32 <sgornick> Approx Jan 2013, not Jan 2012.
753 2011-03-23 04:50:37 <sgornick> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2579.0
754 2011-03-23 04:50:42 <luke-jr> meeper: Tonal Bitcoin
755 2011-03-23 04:50:48 <luke-jr> sgornick: o
756 2011-03-23 04:51:04 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin
757 2011-03-23 04:51:09 discHead has joined
758 2011-03-23 04:51:09 discHead has quit (Changing host)
759 2011-03-23 04:51:09 discHead has joined
760 2011-03-23 04:51:10 <nanotube> meelu: oops sorry the trade link was supposed to be for meeper not you :)
761 2011-03-23 04:51:17 overtorque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
762 2011-03-23 04:51:32 <nanotube> meelu: for your gfx card... check google to see if it supports opencl or cuda...
763 2011-03-23 04:51:40 <da2ce7> meeper and meelu...
764 2011-03-23 04:51:47 <luke-jr> nanotube: don't all PCI-E?
765 2011-03-23 04:52:05 <meeper> luke-jr: that wiki page makes no sense
766 2011-03-23 04:52:20 <luke-jr> meeper: it's a use case for more intellectual persons âº
767 2011-03-23 04:52:33 <nanotube> luke-jr: i dunno. i don't have any gfx cards that support it. :)
768 2011-03-23 04:53:13 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
769 2011-03-23 04:53:31 <meelu> CUDA Parallel Processing Cores 448
770 2011-03-23 04:53:53 <luke-jr> meelu: CUDA sucks
771 2011-03-23 04:53:57 discHead has quit (Client Quit)
772 2011-03-23 04:54:41 <nanotube> meelu: so i guess it'll work then. :) try the poclbm miner and see how much hash rate you get.
773 2011-03-23 04:54:47 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki mining hardware
774 2011-03-23 04:54:47 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison | Below are some statistics about the mining performance of various hardware used in a mining rig. The GPU lists were originally compiled by ArtForz. ...
775 2011-03-23 04:55:37 <meelu> nanotube i was just checking to see how much i can pull off with a £3k card
776 2011-03-23 04:55:55 <nanotube> meelu: ah, well, if you're buying a card for mining, forget about nvidia and go ati.
777 2011-03-23 04:56:09 <nanotube> no nvidia card even comes close to the 600mhps from ati 5970
778 2011-03-23 04:56:31 <meelu> im fucking stupid i just realised the computer im using right now has a graphics card, better lay off the haze
779 2011-03-23 04:56:33 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
780 2011-03-23 04:57:16 <luke-jr> lol
781 2011-03-23 04:57:47 <meelu> lol i have a radeon
782 2011-03-23 04:57:48 <meelu> wow
783 2011-03-23 04:57:59 <meelu> its only hd 3450 though
784 2011-03-23 04:58:01 <meelu> is that good
785 2011-03-23 04:58:02 <meelu> leme check
786 2011-03-23 04:58:14 <nanotube> nope, 3xxx - opencl not supported
787 2011-03-23 04:58:20 <nanotube> (as per the mining hw wiki page)
788 2011-03-23 04:58:33 <meelu> fuck
789 2011-03-23 04:59:05 <meelu> i got like 1.5gb available memory left too
790 2011-03-23 04:59:17 <meelu> i dunno shit about graphics though
791 2011-03-23 04:59:27 <luke-jr> memory is 100% irrelevant
792 2011-03-23 04:59:49 <luke-jr> you need like 1 KB memory for mining
793 2011-03-23 05:00:20 overtorque has joined
794 2011-03-23 05:03:00 <meelu> you see the difficulty factor here http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
795 2011-03-23 05:03:06 Spenvo has joined
796 2011-03-23 05:03:13 <meelu> i dont need to touch it right
797 2011-03-23 05:03:23 hahuang65 has joined
798 2011-03-23 05:03:48 n00bie_ has left ()
799 2011-03-23 05:03:51 <meelu> is khps and mhash/s the same thing?
800 2011-03-23 05:04:17 <luke-jr> â¦â¦..
801 2011-03-23 05:04:30 <Validus> think of it as internet speeds of kb/s and mb/s
802 2011-03-23 05:04:32 <Validus> :P
803 2011-03-23 05:04:34 * luke-jr rant mode on.
804 2011-03-23 05:05:09 <luke-jr> out of everyone who insists on SI, half of them can't even figure out the most obvious SI term
805 2011-03-23 05:05:12 <luke-jr> </rant>
806 2011-03-23 05:06:06 <meelu> oh times 1000
807 2011-03-23 05:06:14 <meelu> or 1024
808 2011-03-23 05:07:06 <Validus> i think its time for a nap
809 2011-03-23 05:07:07 <meelu> nevermind
810 2011-03-23 05:07:13 <meelu> for me it is
811 2011-03-23 05:14:19 wolfspraul has joined
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813 2011-03-23 05:15:24 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
814 2011-03-23 05:15:30 mrb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
815 2011-03-23 05:18:05 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
816 2011-03-23 05:21:30 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
817 2011-03-23 05:21:42 gribble has joined
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819 2011-03-23 05:25:46 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
820 2011-03-23 05:26:52 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
821 2011-03-23 05:29:47 nanotube has joined
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823 2011-03-23 05:37:38 Flam9 has joined
824 2011-03-23 05:43:25 Bosma has joined
825 2011-03-23 05:51:56 <sgornick> Here we go again ... #3 on Hacker News: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2358118
826 2011-03-23 05:57:54 <doublec> "What is the point if only 21 million can be generated?"
827 2011-03-23 05:57:57 <doublec> such a common question
828 2011-03-23 05:58:40 <doublec> along with "how is real world value attached to bitcoins"
829 2011-03-23 05:59:07 <jgarzik> it really is a common question... hopefully it's in the FAQ? :)
830 2011-03-23 06:01:58 <phantomcircuit> possibly the default should be moved a couple decimal places
831 2011-03-23 06:05:11 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: just use mBTC or TBC
832 2011-03-23 06:05:26 <phantomcircuit> yes but people are confused by the 21 million BTC limit
833 2011-03-23 06:05:40 <luke-jr> well that was just Satoshi's bad
834 2011-03-23 06:06:27 <luke-jr> he should have used 63 bits and made it 9.2 billion
835 2011-03-23 06:06:32 <luke-jr> divisible to nano-BTC
836 2011-03-23 06:06:53 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
837 2011-03-23 06:07:33 <Blitzboom> doesnât really matter â¦
838 2011-03-23 06:07:43 <Diablo-D3> ubtc
839 2011-03-23 06:07:45 <Diablo-D3> its uBTC
840 2011-03-23 06:08:01 <Blitzboom> µBTC
841 2011-03-23 06:08:15 <Diablo-D3> well yeah
842 2011-03-23 06:09:04 <phantomcircuit> or make the default client display all the available decimal places
843 2011-03-23 06:12:16 <Blitzboom> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/0210207/Google-Engineer-Releases-Open-Source-Bitcoin-Client?from=twitter
844 2011-03-23 06:13:36 <phantomcircuit> ha baller
845 2011-03-23 06:13:57 <phantomcircuit> also im totally going to jack his thunder
846 2011-03-23 06:17:20 MacRohard has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
847 2011-03-23 06:17:39 ivan has quit (Excess Flood)
848 2011-03-23 06:17:50 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
849 2011-03-23 06:18:38 <kiba> wee!
850 2011-03-23 06:18:41 <kiba> bitcoin is a serial
851 2011-03-23 06:18:48 blablaa has joined
852 2011-03-23 06:18:50 <kiba> traffic getter
853 2011-03-23 06:18:51 <lfm> seems to me the default client has always displayed all the available decimal places.
854 2011-03-23 06:18:59 <kiba> I think bitcoin apperas on slashdot like 3 times now
855 2011-03-23 06:19:06 <lfm> its only the gui users that have that problem
856 2011-03-23 06:19:50 Ruudjah has joined
857 2011-03-23 06:19:50 <Blitzboom> kiba: 4 times
858 2011-03-23 06:19:55 <Ruudjah> How can I make my client connect? It says its not connected, but Im connected to the internet
859 2011-03-23 06:21:23 pecket is now known as peck
860 2011-03-23 06:21:46 <lfm> Ruudjah: just wait a while it should do
861 2011-03-23 06:22:39 <Ruudjah> How come the program does not let me know I should wait?
862 2011-03-23 06:24:32 <lfm> dunno, i guess they never thot of that
863 2011-03-23 06:24:52 brunner has joined
864 2011-03-23 06:25:08 <kiba> the people who code the client are not exactly usability experts
865 2011-03-23 06:25:11 <kiba> they're programmers
866 2011-03-23 06:25:15 <kiba> for god's sake
867 2011-03-23 06:25:16 <Ruudjah> ok. It's very frustrating though
868 2011-03-23 06:25:29 <kiba> but it would be helpful that somebody design a better interface
869 2011-03-23 06:25:40 <Ruudjah> what lang is it written in?
870 2011-03-23 06:25:46 <lfm> i think that has been mentioned
871 2011-03-23 06:26:11 <kiba> C++
872 2011-03-23 06:27:19 <Ruudjah> ah, ok, I don't know any C++ ui toolkit... If there's a java/C# implementation for bitcoin I'm happy to write a UI for it
873 2011-03-23 06:27:51 <lfm> there is a java toolkit from google now
874 2011-03-23 06:28:26 <phantomcircuit> lfm, afaict it's only a network implementation
875 2011-03-23 06:28:27 <Ruudjah> for bitcoin?
876 2011-03-23 06:28:53 <Ruudjah> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin-client/
877 2011-03-23 06:29:01 ivan has joined
878 2011-03-23 06:29:03 <lfm> it has wallet handling routines as well if I remember
879 2011-03-23 06:32:11 <Ruudjah> hm, looks interesting
880 2011-03-23 06:32:15 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
881 2011-03-23 06:33:03 <phantomcircuit> import com.google.bitcoin.bouncycastle
882 2011-03-23 06:33:04 <phantomcircuit> lol
883 2011-03-23 06:33:49 <Ruudjah> seems to work with json. I may just write a GWT client for it, so there's a platform independent html/javascript client
884 2011-03-23 06:34:16 <Ruudjah> Only thing that remains then is a server install and client xcopy html files
885 2011-03-23 06:34:25 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|GWT??
886 2011-03-23 06:34:41 <Ruudjah> google web toolkit, a way to write webapps using java
887 2011-03-23 06:34:45 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|...
888 2011-03-23 06:34:54 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|so Java platform
889 2011-03-23 06:35:03 <Ruudjah> no
890 2011-03-23 06:35:04 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|hardly platform-independent
891 2011-03-23 06:35:29 <Ruudjah> "a way to write webapps using java" --> GWT compiles to javascript, not bytecode.
892 2011-03-23 06:35:43 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|...
893 2011-03-23 06:36:08 <Ruudjah> the code is tied to the java platform, the client is not
894 2011-03-23 06:36:18 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|also jsonrpc is not suitable for clients
895 2011-03-23 06:36:49 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|webapps are ng
896 2011-03-23 06:36:54 <Ruudjah> ng?
897 2011-03-23 06:37:00 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|not good
898 2011-03-23 06:37:03 <Ruudjah> lol
899 2011-03-23 06:37:07 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
900 2011-03-23 06:37:12 <Ruudjah> why is that?
901 2011-03-23 06:37:24 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|its super-anti-free
902 2011-03-23 06:37:33 <Ruudjah> the only platform independant platform is no good?
903 2011-03-23 06:37:46 <Ruudjah> anti-free?
904 2011-03-23 06:37:51 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Qt is platform-independent
905 2011-03-23 06:38:11 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|yeah
906 2011-03-23 06:38:19 <Ruudjah> why is that exactly?
907 2011-03-23 06:38:26 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
908 2011-03-23 06:38:33 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|free = you get code (oversimplified )
909 2011-03-23 06:38:41 <phantomcircuit> LOG("PUSHDATA4: Unimplemented");
910 2011-03-23 06:38:45 <phantomcircuit> i never got that
911 2011-03-23 06:38:47 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|proprietary = you get a binary
912 2011-03-23 06:38:55 <phantomcircuit> why would you ever have > 64kb of stack
913 2011-03-23 06:38:57 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|webapp = you get nothing
914 2011-03-23 06:39:20 <Ruudjah> what an utter nonsense.
915 2011-03-23 06:39:24 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|no u
916 2011-03-23 06:39:35 <phantomcircuit> well depends
917 2011-03-23 06:39:43 <phantomcircuit> phpbb you get the source
918 2011-03-23 06:39:48 <Ruudjah> Im authoring a webapp with gplv3 code
919 2011-03-23 06:39:53 <Ruudjah> code=free
920 2011-03-23 06:40:09 <Diablo-D3> xhttp://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/0210207/Google-Engineer-Releases-Open-Source-Bitcoin-Client?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
921 2011-03-23 06:40:11 <Diablo-D3> jesus christ.
922 2011-03-23 06:40:25 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Ruudjah, anyone can close a GPL webapp
923 2011-03-23 06:40:34 * Diablo-D3 stabs bitcoin until it stops being popular
924 2011-03-23 06:40:39 dwdollar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
925 2011-03-23 06:40:40 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Ruudjah, better use AGPL
926 2011-03-23 06:40:44 <Ruudjah> then, when someone accesses the webapp, it gets code anyways since it needs javascript
927 2011-03-23 06:40:55 <phantomcircuit> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/0210207/Google-Engineer-Releases-Open-Source-Bitcoin-Client?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
928 2011-03-23 06:41:25 <Diablo-D3> AHAHHA
929 2011-03-23 06:41:34 <Diablo-D3> prominent comment on the story
930 2011-03-23 06:41:38 <Diablo-D3> "already covered on reddit"
931 2011-03-23 06:41:38 <Diablo-D3> pwned
932 2011-03-23 06:41:44 <Diablo-D3> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/g7zlw/google_engineer_releases_open_source_bitcoin/
933 2011-03-23 06:41:53 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, that'll get buried
934 2011-03-23 06:42:01 <phantomcircuit> -1 Troll
935 2011-03-23 06:42:09 <Diablo-D3> its already at 2
936 2011-03-23 06:42:21 <phantomcircuit> registered users start at 2
937 2011-03-23 06:42:31 <phantomcircuit> well registered users in good standing
938 2011-03-23 06:42:34 <Diablo-D3> no they dont
939 2011-03-23 06:42:37 <phantomcircuit> yes they do
940 2011-03-23 06:42:40 <Diablo-D3> depends entirely on YOUR settings
941 2011-03-23 06:43:01 <Ruudjah> Ruudjah, anyone can close a GPL webapp --> explain ?
942 2011-03-23 06:43:02 <Diablo-D3> you can change all the score bonuses
943 2011-03-23 06:43:04 <phantomcircuit> uhm ok
944 2011-03-23 06:43:12 <Diablo-D3> Ruudjah: gpl vs agpl
945 2011-03-23 06:43:13 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the default is to start at 2
946 2011-03-23 06:43:33 <Diablo-D3> which reminds me
947 2011-03-23 06:43:34 <phantomcircuit> and there aren't any other mods
948 2011-03-23 06:43:39 <Diablo-D3> Im going to release my pool software under agpl
949 2011-03-23 06:43:41 <Diablo-D3> just to be an awesome dick
950 2011-03-23 06:43:58 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, GPLv3 webapps cannot be closed
951 2011-03-23 06:44:31 <Diablo-D3> see above
952 2011-03-23 06:44:39 <Diablo-D3> if you dont distribute it, gpl doesnt actually apply to you
953 2011-03-23 06:44:49 dissipate has joined
954 2011-03-23 06:44:49 <Diablo-D3> so you CAN make a shitload of private mods and let people connect to your shit
955 2011-03-23 06:44:53 <Diablo-D3> thats why the agpl exists
956 2011-03-23 06:44:58 ex-parrot has joined
957 2011-03-23 06:45:11 <Ruudjah> afaik gplv3 explicitly forbids tivoization
958 2011-03-23 06:45:20 <Ruudjah> which iirc is similar
959 2011-03-23 06:45:21 <Diablo-D3> tivoiization is patent bullshit
960 2011-03-23 06:45:34 <Diablo-D3> its where you sue over people using your shit using patents not licenses
961 2011-03-23 06:45:34 <Ruudjah> closing the platform
962 2011-03-23 06:45:35 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Ruudjah, totally different problem
963 2011-03-23 06:45:40 <Diablo-D3> thats a different problem
964 2011-03-23 06:46:03 <Ruudjah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization
965 2011-03-23 06:46:18 <Diablo-D3> gpl's major feature is strong patent language
966 2011-03-23 06:46:29 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|it also has nothing to do w patents
967 2011-03-23 06:46:59 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|tivoization is preventing the user from installing derived works
968 2011-03-23 06:47:01 <Diablo-D3> yeah it does
969 2011-03-23 06:47:08 <Diablo-D3> patents are a large part of it
970 2011-03-23 06:47:18 <Diablo-D3> anti-tivoization in gpl3 is two fold
971 2011-03-23 06:47:22 <Ruudjah> but if someone distributes the webapp by serving the html/js files, its distribution
972 2011-03-23 06:47:23 <Diablo-D3> only part of which is fucking hardware
973 2011-03-23 06:47:25 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, tivoization is more about hardware keys
974 2011-03-23 06:47:28 <Diablo-D3> Ruudjah: nope.
975 2011-03-23 06:47:37 <Ruudjah> why would agpl be advantageous over gpl?
976 2011-03-23 06:47:39 <Diablo-D3> Ruudjah: see agpl before you say anything else
977 2011-03-23 06:47:44 <Ruudjah> i did
978 2011-03-23 06:47:49 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, only that part is tivoization
979 2011-03-23 06:48:01 <Diablo-D3> agpl is the same thing as gpl, but it ALSO covers anything that can be connected to by the network
980 2011-03-23 06:48:37 <Ruudjah> "whereby using but not distributing the software, the copyleft provisions are not triggered."
981 2011-03-23 06:49:19 <Ruudjah> if you have a webserver with the gplv3 compiled js files, it's the app, which you are distributing
982 2011-03-23 06:50:55 <Ruudjah> anyways, I'd like to hear your argument about webapps being bad, luke-jr.
983 2011-03-23 06:51:43 <Diablo-D3> thats the js files only
984 2011-03-23 06:51:49 <Diablo-D3> and by virtue of sending them they're diistributed
985 2011-03-23 06:51:55 <Diablo-D3> doesnt appply here
986 2011-03-23 06:54:10 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
987 2011-03-23 06:54:41 genjix has joined
988 2011-03-23 06:54:42 genjix has quit (Changing host)
989 2011-03-23 06:54:42 genjix has joined
990 2011-03-23 06:54:45 skeledrew has joined
991 2011-03-23 06:54:50 <genjix> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/0210207/Google-Engineer-Releases-Open-Source-Bitcoin-Client
992 2011-03-23 06:54:54 <genjix> shitt!
993 2011-03-23 06:56:02 <lfm> whats wrong with that?
994 2011-03-23 06:56:12 <genjix> shit in a good way :)
995 2011-03-23 06:56:47 <Blitzboom> iâm buying BTC btw
996 2011-03-23 06:57:02 <lfm> wtg!
997 2011-03-23 06:57:11 <Blitzboom> wtg?
998 2011-03-23 06:57:17 meek has joined
999 2011-03-23 06:57:22 <meek> hey
1000 2011-03-23 06:57:27 <meek> anyone here?
1001 2011-03-23 06:57:52 <lfm> wtg == way to go
1002 2011-03-23 06:58:09 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, ps you'll notice that reddit post was -1'd
1003 2011-03-23 06:58:10 <lfm> meek well im not sure if we are just anyone
1004 2011-03-23 06:58:15 <genjix> lucky i got given 500 for some work just 2 days ago :D
1005 2011-03-23 07:00:54 <meek> haha ok
1006 2011-03-23 07:00:56 <meek> cool
1007 2011-03-23 07:01:07 <meek> ive heard some things about bitcoin but dont really understand it
1008 2011-03-23 07:01:12 <meek> can
1009 2011-03-23 07:01:13 <meek> its it actual money?
1010 2011-03-23 07:01:24 <meek> and you can send large sums of money this way?
1011 2011-03-23 07:01:34 <lfm> meek it is almost as much money as anything can be
1012 2011-03-23 07:01:51 <meek> yea thats waht i dont understand
1013 2011-03-23 07:01:58 <meek> new form of currency
1014 2011-03-23 07:02:00 <meek> ?
1015 2011-03-23 07:02:09 <lfm> meek well it may be illegal where you are. I am not a lawyer
1016 2011-03-23 07:02:29 <phantomcircuit> meek, coins are minted by calculating sha256 sums rapidly
1017 2011-03-23 07:02:54 <phantomcircuit> meek, i can give a much more detailed explanation if you'd like
1018 2011-03-23 07:03:04 <lfm> money laundering and funding terrorism is illegal in some places so you want to be carefull about that
1019 2011-03-23 07:03:51 <meek> ?
1020 2011-03-23 07:03:54 <lfm> meek but bitcoin does make it very easy to move money around the internet, thats true
1021 2011-03-23 07:04:17 <ex-parrot> what is everyone using these days for mining? has the bitcoin world moved on to GPUs exclusively? :P
1022 2011-03-23 07:04:33 <lfm> ex-parrot: pretty much yes
1023 2011-03-23 07:04:42 <genjix> phantomcircuit: does your python implementation work?
1024 2011-03-23 07:04:55 <genjix> possibly interested to use it for my client.
1025 2011-03-23 07:05:04 <phantomcircuit> genjix, it'll download the block chain and calculate the height for each block
1026 2011-03-23 07:05:17 <phantomcircuit> so far there isn't any support for verifying transactions
1027 2011-03-23 07:05:18 <genjix> ok
1028 2011-03-23 07:05:28 <ex-parrot> lfm: that's cool. guess I'll just buy some bitcoins then. any recommendations? the one paypal based system I tried refuses my addresses
1029 2011-03-23 07:05:38 <phantomcircuit> although looking at the bitcoinj script implementation im not quite as annoyed by it
1030 2011-03-23 07:06:24 <lfm> ex-parrot: I think the most common place is mtgox.com but Im not sure exactly how you want to do it
1031 2011-03-23 07:06:33 <genjix> very cool stuff
1032 2011-03-23 07:06:37 <ex-parrot> that's cool, I'll look around lfm. cheers
1033 2011-03-23 07:06:47 <lfm> have fun
1034 2011-03-23 07:07:17 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1035 2011-03-23 07:08:58 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1036 2011-03-23 07:13:12 <Diablo-D3> Ruudjah: anyhow, the agpl is not for js files and shit
1037 2011-03-23 07:13:17 <Diablo-D3> its for stuff that you connect to
1038 2011-03-23 07:13:40 <Diablo-D3> you could agpl servers or servlets (or whatever your language/framework provides) etc etc
1039 2011-03-23 07:13:54 <Diablo-D3> if someone that isnt part of your organization connects to it, then you have to provide the source on request
1040 2011-03-23 07:13:54 <genjix> Diablo-D3: how comes gpl3 and agpl are seperate licenses?
1041 2011-03-23 07:14:09 <Diablo-D3> genjix: the a part of agpl comes from a different license
1042 2011-03-23 07:14:14 <Diablo-D3> the affero guys cooked it up form a modified gpl
1043 2011-03-23 07:14:27 <Diablo-D3> so GNU decided to, after gpl3 was finalized, make a version that includes the text
1044 2011-03-23 07:14:34 <genjix> yeah why they didn't just modify gpl3?
1045 2011-03-23 07:14:47 * Diablo-D3 underlines the finalized part
1046 2011-03-23 07:14:53 <Diablo-D3> gpl4 might end up merging these
1047 2011-03-23 07:15:09 <genjix> righto
1048 2011-03-23 07:15:18 <Diablo-D3> or they may not
1049 2011-03-23 07:15:25 <Diablo-D3> its sorta like how you still have gpl and lgpl
1050 2011-03-23 07:15:36 <Diablo-D3> some people legitimately want lgpl behavior
1051 2011-03-23 07:16:02 <Diablo-D3> so, lgpl is gpl for libraries, agpl is gpl for networked apps
1052 2011-03-23 07:18:39 <Ruudjah> that sucks
1053 2011-03-23 07:18:54 <genjix> anyone know how to find the input addresses from CWalletTx?
1054 2011-03-23 07:19:07 <Ruudjah> what if my app is all? a lib, networked (server), and standalone userclient?
1055 2011-03-23 07:19:11 wolfspra1l has joined
1056 2011-03-23 07:19:19 <genjix> CWalletTx.vin has a list of CTxIn
1057 2011-03-23 07:19:31 <Ruudjah> I guess i can multilicense
1058 2011-03-23 07:19:51 <genjix> but: CWalletTx.vin[0].scriptSig.GetBitcoinAddress() returns a blank.
1059 2011-03-23 07:20:28 <Diablo-D3> Ruudjah: how the fuck is that even useful
1060 2011-03-23 07:20:34 <Diablo-D3> quit hating linux package maintainers
1061 2011-03-23 07:20:38 <Diablo-D3> release multiple tarballs
1062 2011-03-23 07:20:52 <Diablo-D3> and nothing stops you from mixing licenses in subprojects anyhow
1063 2011-03-23 07:21:01 <Ruudjah> whats a tarball?
1064 2011-03-23 07:21:12 <Diablo-D3> if you have to ask this, quit talking about licenses, they're not for you.
1065 2011-03-23 07:21:23 <genjix> can i multi-license different parts of a source file? :D
1066 2011-03-23 07:21:32 <genjix> just to troll people
1067 2011-03-23 07:21:37 <Ruudjah> :P
1068 2011-03-23 07:21:47 <Diablo-D3> genjix: yes, but thats considered fugly
1069 2011-03-23 07:21:48 <Ruudjah> if you have to ask this, quit talking about licenses, they're not for you. --> excuse me?
1070 2011-03-23 07:21:54 mmagic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1071 2011-03-23 07:21:56 <genjix> license different parts of a project under 12 different licenses.
1072 2011-03-23 07:22:14 <Diablo-D3> Ruudjah: you're not a programmer
1073 2011-03-23 07:22:16 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1074 2011-03-23 07:22:20 <Ruudjah> lol
1075 2011-03-23 07:22:26 <Diablo-D3> you have zero reason authority on which to be discussing this
1076 2011-03-23 07:22:43 <Ruudjah> now I am actually laughing out loud.
1077 2011-03-23 07:22:54 <Ruudjah> I don't know what a tarball is and i am not a programmer?
1078 2011-03-23 07:23:13 <genjix> why is that funny? i would want to know
1079 2011-03-23 07:23:42 <Ruudjah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_(file_format)
1080 2011-03-23 07:23:52 <Ruudjah> apparently its a compression file format
1081 2011-03-23 07:24:02 <AAA_awright> It doesn't compress anything
1082 2011-03-23 07:24:03 <genjix> phantomcircuit: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
1083 2011-03-23 07:24:10 <genjix> tar contains
1084 2011-03-23 07:24:17 <Ruudjah> Should I feed the troll and ask why programmers must know compression file formats to be programmer?
1085 2011-03-23 07:24:18 <genjix> gzip compresses
1086 2011-03-23 07:24:23 <phantomcircuit> genjix, ?
1087 2011-03-23 07:24:27 <genjix> phantomcircuit: /.
1088 2011-03-23 07:24:28 <AAA_awright> or bz2 or something
1089 2011-03-23 07:24:41 <phantomcircuit> h
1090 2011-03-23 07:24:42 <phantomcircuit> lulz
1091 2011-03-23 07:24:45 <phantomcircuit> i totally am
1092 2011-03-23 07:24:51 <AAA_awright> Now if you really want to troll, release your project under the AGPL, BSD, and public domain
1093 2011-03-23 07:24:53 <genjix> lul
1094 2011-03-23 07:24:56 <phantomcircuit> http://slashdot.org/~phantomcircuit/achievements
1095 2011-03-23 07:24:59 <phantomcircuit> :(
1096 2011-03-23 07:25:02 * phantomcircuit needs a life
1097 2011-03-23 07:25:08 <genjix> jajajaja
1098 2011-03-23 07:25:28 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1099 2011-03-23 07:25:31 <phantomcircuit> 2^6 days in a row?
1100 2011-03-23 07:25:32 <genjix> i am like a third of you
1101 2011-03-23 07:25:35 <phantomcircuit> how is that even possible
1102 2011-03-23 07:25:35 echoecho has joined
1103 2011-03-23 07:25:47 <phantomcircuit> i was trapped in the snow this weekend
1104 2011-03-23 07:25:55 <phantomcircuit> and yet somehow i managed to login to /.
1105 2011-03-23 07:25:57 <phantomcircuit> lulz
1106 2011-03-23 07:26:24 <genjix> i just wish they didn't have all that crap about facebook all the time
1107 2011-03-23 07:26:35 <genjix> facebook this, facebook that, facebook zomg
1108 2011-03-23 07:26:52 <Ruudjah> last three times I failed posting a coward comment on /.
1109 2011-03-23 07:27:00 <Ruudjah> then i was like never mind
1110 2011-03-23 07:27:26 <genjix> yep seems to be a bug
1111 2011-03-23 07:27:26 <echoecho> Howdy folks! I just learned about BitCoin a few hours ago, and reading up on the forums there seems to be alternative clients for mining. If I have an i7 processor and a Radeon HD 6850 card, which client do you think I should be using?
1112 2011-03-23 07:27:31 <genjix> Howdy!
1113 2011-03-23 07:28:21 <echoecho> Hey :)
1114 2011-03-23 07:28:27 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1115 2011-03-23 07:28:38 <Ruudjah> I figured out the slider bar in v2 /. design was a filter control only days before the v3 design
1116 2011-03-23 07:28:40 <echoecho> This BitCoin is some crazy stuff, TBH my mind is reeling at the idea
1117 2011-03-23 07:28:49 <genjix> yep
1118 2011-03-23 07:28:50 wolfspra1l has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1119 2011-03-23 07:28:54 <genjix> :)
1120 2011-03-23 07:29:05 <Ruudjah> echoecho: please fix the problems of btc
1121 2011-03-23 07:29:20 <Ruudjah> while maintaining the enthusiasm ;)
1122 2011-03-23 07:29:33 <echoecho> Ruudjah: what do you mean?
1123 2011-03-23 07:29:33 skeledrew has joined
1124 2011-03-23 07:29:50 <Ruudjah> can't explain as I don't understand them either
1125 2011-03-23 07:29:56 <echoecho> Oh crud, I appear to have joined dev instead of mining :/
1126 2011-03-23 07:30:13 <phantomcircuit> lol
1127 2011-03-23 07:30:17 <echoecho> My mistake :)
1128 2011-03-23 07:30:28 <phantomcircuit> echoecho, this will work
1129 2011-03-23 07:30:32 <echoecho> I blame the webchat client! Yes... the webchat client
1130 2011-03-23 07:30:37 <echoecho> kk lol
1131 2011-03-23 07:30:45 wolfspraul has joined
1132 2011-03-23 07:30:47 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Poclbm
1133 2011-03-23 07:30:51 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/DiabloMiner
1134 2011-03-23 07:30:55 <phantomcircuit> take your pick
1135 2011-03-23 07:31:06 ex-parrot has left ()
1136 2011-03-23 07:31:11 <Diablo-D3> echoecho: btw, they're not clients
1137 2011-03-23 07:31:18 <Diablo-D3> you still need something for the miner to connect to
1138 2011-03-23 07:31:21 <Diablo-D3> most people use mine, btw
1139 2011-03-23 07:31:22 <echoecho> I see....
1140 2011-03-23 07:31:26 <Diablo-D3> and remember to shut cpu mining off
1141 2011-03-23 07:31:29 <Diablo-D3> people keep forgetting this
1142 2011-03-23 07:31:30 <echoecho> Gotcha
1143 2011-03-23 07:31:31 <echoecho> lol
1144 2011-03-23 07:31:34 <Diablo-D3> I wish the mainline client would remove the code
1145 2011-03-23 07:31:40 <echoecho> yea I'm running the CPU mining right now
1146 2011-03-23 07:31:51 <echoecho> It's not using any CPU though...
1147 2011-03-23 07:32:03 <echoecho> About 3%
1148 2011-03-23 07:33:11 <Diablo-D3> then you're not actually running it
1149 2011-03-23 07:33:17 <Diablo-D3> it wont mine until you've downloaded the entire chain
1150 2011-03-23 07:33:21 <echoecho> Ah
1151 2011-03-23 07:33:46 <echoecho> Yea just started running the client < 10 minutes ago, 8 connections & about 50k blocks
1152 2011-03-23 07:34:00 <echoecho> I'll probably download your DiabloMiner
1153 2011-03-23 07:35:13 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1154 2011-03-23 07:35:45 <Diablo-D3> you're over the 1/3rd way point on blocks
1155 2011-03-23 07:35:46 <Ruudjah> In February 2011, the coverage at Slashdot and the subsequent Slashdot effect affected the value of the bitcoin and the availability of some related sites.
1156 2011-03-23 07:36:17 <phantomcircuit> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2049734&cid=35583290
1157 2011-03-23 07:36:23 <phantomcircuit> my favorite comment so far
1158 2011-03-23 07:36:33 <Ruudjah> "yeah! bitcoin is slashdotted. Now I have 25% more US$ worth of bitcoins"
1159 2011-03-23 07:36:37 <Blitzboom> phantomcircuit: hahahaha
1160 2011-03-23 07:36:49 <echoecho> Yup, learned about it from Slashdot :)
1161 2011-03-23 07:36:52 <genjix> haha
1162 2011-03-23 07:36:59 <Blitzboom> this is so ironic
1163 2011-03-23 07:37:04 <echoecho> Hahaha yea that comment is so true
1164 2011-03-23 07:37:49 <Ruudjah> iirc its 1% vs 99%, or even 0,1% vs 99,9%
1165 2011-03-23 07:38:52 <echoecho> Diablo-D3: is that special command starting Java still needed?
1166 2011-03-23 07:38:55 meek has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1167 2011-03-23 07:38:59 <echoecho> I'm on Windows
1168 2011-03-23 07:39:07 <genjix> o dear
1169 2011-03-23 07:40:08 <echoecho> haha oh shut it :P
1170 2011-03-23 07:40:53 peck has joined
1171 2011-03-23 07:42:53 <Diablo-D3> echoecho: its in the thread
1172 2011-03-23 07:43:04 <echoecho> kk, yea flipping through pages ATM
1173 2011-03-23 07:44:25 <echoecho> It appears the official Bitcoin client has no GUI option to turn on rpc, so you have to do it through a conf file the run the client as a deamon so your miner can connect... vexing.
1174 2011-03-23 07:45:06 <Diablo-D3> no
1175 2011-03-23 07:45:14 <echoecho> ?
1176 2011-03-23 07:45:14 <Diablo-D3> well yes
1177 2011-03-23 07:45:16 <Diablo-D3> but its not an issue
1178 2011-03-23 07:45:20 <echoecho> i seeeeee
1179 2011-03-23 07:45:24 <Diablo-D3> you just pass an argument and fill the file in
1180 2011-03-23 07:48:55 <Aciid> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4807.0
1181 2011-03-23 07:48:59 <Aciid> another one bites the dust
1182 2011-03-23 07:49:47 <Diablo-D3> hrm?
1183 2011-03-23 07:49:52 <Diablo-D3> cant open it, fullscreen app open
1184 2011-03-23 07:49:52 <Blitzboom> how ddi he find out his nickâs threat2life?
1185 2011-03-23 07:51:14 <genjix> hah nice work Aciid
1186 2011-03-23 07:51:21 <echoecho> Diablo-D3: so A) I create a two-line conf file in my AppData/Roaming/Bitcoin, B) launch the official client's deamon mode, C) launch your miner. Is that correct?
1187 2011-03-23 07:52:07 <Aciid> Blitzboom: found his photos of him high
1188 2011-03-23 07:52:17 <phantomcircuit> Aciid, yeah that pretty much screamed scam
1189 2011-03-23 07:52:28 <Aciid> Blitzboom: details of nick found in the updated post
1190 2011-03-23 07:52:29 <Aciid> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4807.msg70356#msg70356
1191 2011-03-23 07:52:38 <Blitzboom> hahaha
1192 2011-03-23 07:52:44 <Blitzboom> awesome work, arc
1193 2011-03-23 07:52:46 <Blitzboom> Aciid:
1194 2011-03-23 07:52:47 <genjix> Aciid: where?
1195 2011-03-23 07:53:07 <Blitzboom> we should find out where he lives
1196 2011-03-23 07:53:09 <Aciid> genjix: the link ^
1197 2011-03-23 07:53:17 <genjix> what does that have to do with him?
1198 2011-03-23 07:53:22 <genjix> that he takes drugs?
1199 2011-03-23 07:53:33 <Blitzboom> http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r280/threat2life/steamsale.jpg
1200 2011-03-23 07:53:34 <Aciid> "tweak" methamphetamine
1201 2011-03-23 07:53:38 <Blitzboom> photobucket account apparently
1202 2011-03-23 07:53:40 <Aciid> yes
1203 2011-03-23 07:53:51 <phantomcircuit> those cant be tweakers
1204 2011-03-23 07:53:59 <phantomcircuit> one of them still has jewelry
1205 2011-03-23 07:54:03 <Blitzboom> more like threat2property
1206 2011-03-23 07:54:08 <Aciid> hahah
1207 2011-03-23 07:54:16 <Aciid> I need to setup a bitcoin safety website
1208 2011-03-23 07:54:20 <Aciid> im getting good at this
1209 2011-03-23 07:54:25 <genjix> what's the problem here?
1210 2011-03-23 07:54:29 <genjix> i fail to see it.
1211 2011-03-23 07:54:43 <genjix> the link is tenuous at best.
1212 2011-03-23 07:55:27 hahuang65 has quit (lappy!~hahuang65@c-76-126-13-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net|)
1213 2011-03-23 07:55:36 <echoecho> Well at any rate his propose sale was agiainst the Steam TOS and therefore a poor trade
1214 2011-03-23 07:55:42 <echoecho> *proposed
1215 2011-03-23 07:55:47 <echoecho> *against ><
1216 2011-03-23 07:56:02 <Aciid> yes
1217 2011-03-23 07:56:12 <Aciid> marketplace guidelines need to be updated
1218 2011-03-23 07:56:16 <Aciid> no against TOS trades
1219 2011-03-23 07:56:21 <Aciid> we dont want bad reputation
1220 2011-03-23 07:57:13 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1221 2011-03-23 07:59:40 <Aciid> genjix: tenous?
1222 2011-03-23 07:59:40 <AAA_awright> Another Bitcoin article hit Slashdot
1223 2011-03-23 07:59:55 <Aciid> tenuous
1224 2011-03-23 07:59:57 <Aciid> ah
1225 2011-03-23 07:59:58 <Aciid> weak
1226 2011-03-23 08:00:01 <genjix> yup
1227 2011-03-23 08:00:19 <Aciid> genjix: quick post: 800 for you
1228 2011-03-23 08:00:30 <Aciid> post something awesome for the 800th
1229 2011-03-23 08:00:30 <Aciid> =D
1230 2011-03-23 08:01:22 <genjix> :o
1231 2011-03-23 08:01:28 <genjix> i better stop posting then
1232 2011-03-23 08:01:33 <Aciid> I snip'd the personal image of there
1233 2011-03-23 08:01:35 <genjix> self ban myself.
1234 2011-03-23 08:01:39 <Aciid> so he wont go batshit crazy
1235 2011-03-23 08:02:58 <echoecho> meh
1236 2011-03-23 08:03:22 <echoecho> Can I run the GUI and CLI versions of the official BitCoin client at the same time?
1237 2011-03-23 08:03:31 <echoecho> The GUI version is still downloading blocks.
1238 2011-03-23 08:03:48 <Aciid> echoecho: the gui is the wallet part
1239 2011-03-23 08:03:54 <Aciid> you should mine for coins its more efficient
1240 2011-03-23 08:04:09 <echoecho> Aciid: that's what I plan to do, so your answer is "yes" ?
1241 2011-03-23 08:04:36 <echoecho> I'm still learning BitCoin stuff, my goal tonight is simply to turn on a miner & go to bed :)
1242 2011-03-23 08:05:16 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1243 2011-03-23 08:06:11 <Ruudjah> nice, finally got that transaction after 1,5 hours
1244 2011-03-23 08:06:29 <Ruudjah> paypal > btc wrt speed
1245 2011-03-23 08:06:39 phantomcircuit has joined
1246 2011-03-23 08:06:47 <phantomcircuit> lol i just realized
1247 2011-03-23 08:06:55 <phantomcircuit> the timing of the /. article is unfortuante
1248 2011-03-23 08:07:04 <phantomcircuit> it'll be buried by the time most people wake up
1249 2011-03-23 08:07:20 <genjix> what do you mean calculate the height of each block?
1250 2011-03-23 08:07:34 <genjix> you mean GetDepthInMainChain() ?
1251 2011-03-23 08:07:39 <phantomcircuit> genjix, add up the difficulty of every block before it
1252 2011-03-23 08:08:09 <sipa> echoecho: run the gui with -server, that way you'll have both
1253 2011-03-23 08:08:21 <genjix> phantomcircuit: what good is that for?
1254 2011-03-23 08:08:29 <echoecho> sipa: ah cool. And that pulls from the bitcoin.conf file?
1255 2011-03-23 08:08:38 <sipa> yes
1256 2011-03-23 08:08:43 <echoecho> I've already filled out the rpcuser and rpcpassword
1257 2011-03-23 08:08:46 <echoecho> excellent.
1258 2011-03-23 08:08:51 <sipa> echoecho: and mining is only profitable on certain gpu cards, otherwise you won't gain your electricity costs back
1259 2011-03-23 08:09:18 <phantomcircuit> genjix, the block with the highest cumulative difficulty is the head of the block chain, which is how you determine the correct block in the event of a block chain split
1260 2011-03-23 08:09:45 <echoecho> sipa; I've got a Radeon HD 6850, reasonably powerful card, the comparison wiki page seems to say it's one of the fastest out there as far as generation goes
1261 2011-03-23 08:09:55 <echoecho> sipa: but TBH I don't know what the units on those charts mean
1262 2011-03-23 08:10:06 <genjix> phantomcircuit: aha ok. I think it's a good idea you're using SQL for storing the info.
1263 2011-03-23 08:10:35 <phantomcircuit> genjix, yeah only problem is that sqlite transactions are very slow
1264 2011-03-23 08:10:49 <phantomcircuit> like 30/second
1265 2011-03-23 08:11:10 <cosurgi> on slashdot: "don't say you're minting" that was a link to something or what? Currently it is not a href.
1266 2011-03-23 08:11:21 <genjix> phantomcircuit: maybe MySQL?
1267 2011-03-23 08:11:25 <genjix> phantomcircuit: http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6546/screenshot1js.png
1268 2011-03-23 08:11:52 <genjix> (made in python)
1269 2011-03-23 08:12:15 <cosurgi> hmm, maybe bitcoinJ will work on Pandora? There's already a working Java package .pnd
1270 2011-03-23 08:12:17 <phantomcircuit> cosurgi, lol it's a <a>
1271 2011-03-23 08:12:28 <genjix> sooo... if there's a library for python
1272 2011-03-23 08:12:32 <phantomcircuit> genjix, just a gui to the bitcoind
1273 2011-03-23 08:12:33 <Diablo-D3> Ill have to take bitcoinj apart though
1274 2011-03-23 08:12:45 <Diablo-D3> I dont think its coded entirely right
1275 2011-03-23 08:12:48 <cosurgi> phantomcircuit: Just <a>don't say you're minting</a> anything.</div>
1276 2011-03-23 08:12:55 <cosurgi> phantomcircuit: but without href=""
1277 2011-03-23 08:12:58 <genjix> it's easy to create a wallet handling system
1278 2011-03-23 08:13:00 <phantomcircuit> cosurgi, yeah it's weird
1279 2011-03-23 08:13:07 <sipa> echoecho: 6850 is good
1280 2011-03-23 08:13:15 <genjix> and then you attach the gui
1281 2011-03-23 08:13:20 <genjix> = bitcoin in python
1282 2011-03-23 08:13:38 <phantomcircuit> yeah i guess
1283 2011-03-23 08:14:09 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1284 2011-03-23 08:14:14 <phantomcircuit> HIT IT AND QUIT IT
1285 2011-03-23 08:15:36 <echoecho> lol, the miner just spews html to cmd-line if it can't connect :P
1286 2011-03-23 08:16:07 <echoecho> I like
1287 2011-03-23 08:17:26 <echoecho> Aha, I bet I have to wait for the Bitcoin server to download all the blocks or whatever?
1288 2011-03-23 08:18:15 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1289 2011-03-23 08:18:36 <echoecho> That'd be why BitCoin gets angry at me :)
1290 2011-03-23 08:19:10 <Blitzboom> no server, echoecho
1291 2011-03-23 08:19:17 <Blitzboom> you connect to other nodes
1292 2011-03-23 08:19:47 <echoecho> Err, right, but the BitCoin wallet is running the RPC server that the miner connect to?
1293 2011-03-23 08:20:29 <echoecho> I realize BitCoin itself is P2P
1294 2011-03-23 08:21:30 dukeleto has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1295 2011-03-23 08:22:11 tower has joined
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1299 2011-03-23 08:30:41 <echoecho> Question: what happens when bitcoins are "lost"?
1300 2011-03-23 08:30:47 <genjix> does anybody know how to find the input addresses for a CTransaction?
1301 2011-03-23 08:30:47 <Blitzboom> they are lost
1302 2011-03-23 08:30:52 <echoecho> Say somebody goes and mines a bunch of coins, then virus or reformat
1303 2011-03-23 08:30:56 m00p has joined
1304 2011-03-23 08:30:56 <Blitzboom> if you lose your private key, you lose access to your bitcoins
1305 2011-03-23 08:31:02 <Blitzboom> private keys*
1306 2011-03-23 08:31:02 <echoecho> Doesn't that guarantee the eventual extinction of the currency?
1307 2011-03-23 08:31:04 <genjix> echoecho: #bitcoin-discussion
1308 2011-03-23 08:31:18 <genjix> im asking a dev question and you're spamming noob questions
1309 2011-03-23 08:31:21 <genjix> does anybody know how to find the input addresses for a CTransaction?
1310 2011-03-23 08:31:49 <echoecho> np genjix, earlier user said not to bother, I can channel-hop :)
1311 2011-03-23 08:33:05 <genjix> thx
1312 2011-03-23 08:35:25 <phantomcircuit> echoecho, very far in the future, like say around the time that sha256 is broken
1313 2011-03-23 08:35:45 <echoecho> phantomcircuit: fair enough :)
1314 2011-03-23 08:37:21 <echoecho> Going to bed, TTYL everyone
1315 2011-03-23 08:37:29 <echoecho> Thanks for your help
1316 2011-03-23 08:37:33 echoecho has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1317 2011-03-23 08:40:25 <phantomcircuit> http://i.imgur.com/K2rhM.jpg
1318 2011-03-23 08:40:27 <phantomcircuit> baller
1319 2011-03-23 08:41:28 <genjix> misuse of limits.
1320 2011-03-23 08:41:45 <phantomcircuit> yes
1321 2011-03-23 08:41:47 <phantomcircuit> but why
1322 2011-03-23 08:41:51 <genjix> you can use limits like that to approximate the area of the circle, but not the perimeter
1323 2011-03-23 08:42:18 <genjix> because as you approach the limit of the area, it keeps getting closer and closer to the area of a true circle
1324 2011-03-23 08:42:27 <genjix> the perimeter does not. it always stays 4
1325 2011-03-23 08:42:42 <genjix> limits are approximations.
1326 2011-03-23 08:43:24 <genjix> and you need a smooth function which approaches the value on the curve as it gets closer.
1327 2011-03-23 08:43:30 <lfm> you can get the perimeter by finding the limit as you add sides to equalateral polygons
1328 2011-03-23 08:44:05 <BlueMatt> genjix: the point isnt to be true, its just a funny joke
1329 2011-03-23 08:44:16 <genjix> BlueMatt: i know :p but phantomcircuit asked why
1330 2011-03-23 08:44:31 <BlueMatt> oh
1331 2011-03-23 08:44:41 <genjix> >> does anybody know how to find the input addresses for a CTransaction?
1332 2011-03-23 08:45:08 <lfm> genjix: you use the hash of the txn to find it
1333 2011-03-23 08:46:28 <genjix> i have a list of all CTxIn ... any pointers to where I can see something similar done?
1334 2011-03-23 08:47:16 <lfm> genjix: I think txn hashes are different from block hashes
1335 2011-03-23 08:47:23 rli has joined
1336 2011-03-23 08:50:02 <genjix> is that the same as the script signature?
1337 2011-03-23 08:50:02 <lfm> hmm actually the txn hash is just like the block header hashes. you then compare that to the CoutPoint hash value in the txn input
1338 2011-03-23 08:50:13 <genjix> aha ok
1339 2011-03-23 08:51:40 <lfm> so as you load txn and add em to your list of old txn keep them indexed by there hash so you can find them again
1340 2011-03-23 08:52:49 <genjix> ok
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1348 2011-03-23 09:03:00 <genjix> MacRohard: dorud
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1350 2011-03-23 09:08:08 <Aciid> haha now that guy went batshit crazy then
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1362 2011-03-23 09:43:02 meelu is now known as RagingBoner
1363 2011-03-23 09:43:23 RagingBoner is now known as NeeNu
1364 2011-03-23 09:43:28 NeeNu is now known as Meelu
1365 2011-03-23 09:45:27 <genjix> luke-jr: cool article! https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Infrastructure
1366 2011-03-23 09:45:50 slush has joined
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1368 2011-03-23 09:49:25 euclid has joined
1369 2011-03-23 09:58:37 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1370 2011-03-23 09:58:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114650 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 261 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 24 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67442.94714361
1371 2011-03-23 10:02:01 overtorque has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1376 2011-03-23 10:14:51 da2ce7 has joined
1377 2011-03-23 10:15:16 <da2ce7> ;;seen fellowtraveler
1378 2011-03-23 10:15:17 <gribble> fellowtraveler was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 1 hour, 17 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <FellowTraveler> hi all
1379 2011-03-23 10:18:22 ArtForzZz has joined
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1382 2011-03-23 10:26:12 <[Tycho]> "[10:30] <Diablo-D3> most people use mine, btw" - how did you know that ?
1383 2011-03-23 10:28:23 yitz has joined
1384 2011-03-23 10:29:06 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: informal poll
1385 2011-03-23 10:29:07 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1386 2011-03-23 10:29:37 <yitz> on linux, bitcoind seemed to hang and i killed it. how do i remove the lock on .bitcoin so that i can restart it?
1387 2011-03-23 10:29:47 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
1388 2011-03-23 10:30:02 <Diablo-D3> yitz: why did you think it hanged?
1389 2011-03-23 10:30:08 <[Tycho]> Actually in my pool 7.5x more people use poclbm than Diablominer.
1390 2011-03-23 10:30:18 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: but no one uses your pool.
1391 2011-03-23 10:30:23 <Diablo-D3> and why would anyone use poclbm? its slower.
1392 2011-03-23 10:30:42 <yitz> Diablo-D3: short answer: because i'm a newbie :)
1393 2011-03-23 10:30:54 <Diablo-D3> yitz: bitcoind automatically backgrounds itself
1394 2011-03-23 10:31:02 <Diablo-D3> once it says its started, its started
1395 2011-03-23 10:31:16 <[Tycho]> Because poclbm is better, i suppose.
1396 2011-03-23 10:31:37 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: not really
1397 2011-03-23 10:31:49 <Diablo-D3> poclbm doesnt have a fraction of the stuff mine does
1398 2011-03-23 10:31:53 <[Tycho]> My pool's hashrate is usually a half of slush's, so i'm the second "top miner" :)
1399 2011-03-23 10:31:57 <yitz> Diablo-D3: was trying to figure out what my address is, not obvious from the help response. (now i saw on the wiki that you use listreceivedbyaddress 0 true, i would *never* have guessed that).
1400 2011-03-23 10:32:10 <[Tycho]> Do you already have long polling ?
1401 2011-03-23 10:32:30 <UukGoblin> ah btw
1402 2011-03-23 10:32:32 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: no, I already told slush and m0 not to implement long polling, its broken
1403 2011-03-23 10:32:49 <[Tycho]> :))
1404 2011-03-23 10:32:52 <UukGoblin> has anyone got a leaflet design? :-] a bitcoin leaflet that you could give away to people at large rail stations?
1405 2011-03-23 10:32:59 * BurtyB uses poclbm I'd rather not use Java
1406 2011-03-23 10:33:01 <yitz> Diablo-D3: anyway so i tried get getaccountaddress 'Your Account' and after that wasn't getting any rpc responses anymore, so i killed bitcoind.
1407 2011-03-23 10:33:07 bitcoiner has joined
1408 2011-03-23 10:33:09 <Diablo-D3> BurtyB: quite the open source hate there, eh?
1409 2011-03-23 10:33:20 <BurtyB> Diablo-D3 nope, just Java :)
1410 2011-03-23 10:33:29 <Diablo-D3> BurtyB: ahh, so you hate FAST open source software then?
1411 2011-03-23 10:33:43 <BurtyB> it's not about the speed
1412 2011-03-23 10:33:48 <[Tycho]> poclbm is open source and in public domain (really as free as it gets)
1413 2011-03-23 10:34:00 <Diablo-D3> BurtyB: you're saying that in a channel that has the collective computational power of God.
1414 2011-03-23 10:34:03 <yitz> Diablo-D3: it won't restart now: "Bitcoin: Cannot obtain a lock on data directory /home/abba/.bitcoin. Bitcoin is probably already running."
1415 2011-03-23 10:34:14 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: public domain is not a license, thus closed source.
1416 2011-03-23 10:34:24 <Diablo-D3> yitz: killall -9 bitcoind
1417 2011-03-23 10:34:28 <BurtyB> Diablo-D3 I don't believe in God either
1418 2011-03-23 10:34:39 <yitz> Diablo-D3: it's not running, really. i killed it.
1419 2011-03-23 10:35:04 <Diablo-D3> yitz: rm ~/.bitcoin/.lock
1420 2011-03-23 10:35:37 Bth8 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1421 2011-03-23 10:36:54 * BurtyB thinks you're confusing open source and free
1422 2011-03-23 10:37:17 <yitz> Diablo-D3: aha, thanks!
1423 2011-03-23 10:37:56 <Diablo-D3> BurtyB: free as in beer is not free at all.
1424 2011-03-23 10:38:41 ApertureScience has quit (Quit: Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste)
1425 2011-03-23 10:39:27 <BurtyB> so you're saying poclbm where you get the source is closed source?
1426 2011-03-23 10:40:29 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, what license do you use ?
1427 2011-03-23 10:40:35 <Diablo-D3> GPL
1428 2011-03-23 10:40:46 <[Tycho]> GPL is not free at all.
1429 2011-03-23 10:41:00 <Diablo-D3> Ahh, but it is.
1430 2011-03-23 10:41:17 <[Tycho]> You can't do anything you want with the object.
1431 2011-03-23 10:41:29 <[Tycho]> So it's restrictive.
1432 2011-03-23 10:41:34 spaetz has joined
1433 2011-03-23 10:41:39 <Diablo-D3> There is only one restriction in the GPL
1434 2011-03-23 10:41:46 <Diablo-D3> You cannot make code closed source.
1435 2011-03-23 10:41:53 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
1436 2011-03-23 10:41:56 <[Tycho]> It's why i don't like it.
1437 2011-03-23 10:42:05 <Diablo-D3> Ahh, so you support closed source software?
1438 2011-03-23 10:42:24 <[Tycho]> I like to have choice.
1439 2011-03-23 10:42:53 <Diablo-D3> Yes, and GPL gives you that choice.
1440 2011-03-23 10:43:12 <Diablo-D3> You get to have your cake and eat it too with the GPL
1441 2011-03-23 10:43:29 Zenergy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1442 2011-03-23 10:43:32 <Diablo-D3> lesser licenses don't protect the rights of both the developer and the users
1443 2011-03-23 10:43:47 <[Tycho]> What rights ?
1444 2011-03-23 10:43:48 <Diablo-D3> The flaw in BSD-style licenses is that it allows anyone to come in and close source a project
1445 2011-03-23 10:43:57 <Diablo-D3> Thus, it does not protect the rights of anyone.
1446 2011-03-23 10:44:04 <[Tycho]> Not to close, but make a closed fork.
1447 2011-03-23 10:44:28 <Diablo-D3> Yes, which such a fork only can have the intention of attacking Free Software.
1448 2011-03-23 10:44:46 <[Tycho]> If a developer chooses free license then he is fine about anything people can do.
1449 2011-03-23 10:44:47 cenuij has joined
1450 2011-03-23 10:44:48 <yitz> Diablo-D3: alternatively, it has the intention of making money
1451 2011-03-23 10:45:05 <yitz> Diablo-D3: which is far more likely
1452 2011-03-23 10:45:14 <Diablo-D3> yitz: not true, many people make money with GPL
1453 2011-03-23 10:45:39 <Aciid> http://www.flightprosim.com/
1454 2011-03-23 10:45:42 <Aciid> prime example
1455 2011-03-23 10:45:43 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: yes, a developer who uses BSD code can take from people and not give back.
1456 2011-03-23 10:45:48 <Aciid> compile code, and sell it
1457 2011-03-23 10:45:56 <yitz> Diablo-D3: i didn't say no one makes money with GPL. i said that people who make closed forks want to make money *that* way.
1458 2011-03-23 10:46:06 blablaa has quit ()
1459 2011-03-23 10:46:14 <Diablo-D3> yitz: but how can you make money in bakruptcy?
1460 2011-03-23 10:46:14 <Aciid> also blender is being sold
1461 2011-03-23 10:46:16 <Aciid> as compiled
1462 2011-03-23 10:46:22 <yitz> hmm?
1463 2011-03-23 10:46:29 <Diablo-D3> there is no future for closed source software
1464 2011-03-23 10:46:32 <yitz> ah
1465 2011-03-23 10:46:44 <Diablo-D3> its a legal and security liability
1466 2011-03-23 10:46:48 <yitz> maybe not long term, but short term there is
1467 2011-03-23 10:46:57 <Aciid> http://www.illusionmage.com/
1468 2011-03-23 10:47:03 <Diablo-D3> yes, we can see what short term profits did
1469 2011-03-23 10:47:04 <Aciid> blender being sold ^
1470 2011-03-23 10:47:10 <Diablo-D3> go look at the banking industry for the past several years
1471 2011-03-23 10:47:21 <yitz> Diablo-D3: indeed
1472 2011-03-23 10:47:23 <Aciid> Your Dinky One-Time Investment Is
1473 2011-03-23 10:47:23 <Aciid> Only $497 $297 $197 $97 $67 $47!
1474 2011-03-23 10:47:23 <Aciid> (This is a special launch offer only, we're only opening this
1475 2011-03-23 10:47:23 <Aciid> for the next 3 days only before the offer closes forever!)
1476 2011-03-23 10:47:24 <Aciid> Thats right. Your investment for the entire course is only $47 (this launch offer will closed anytime after March 26, 2011 ) And when we reach that point, I'll withdraw this offer immediately and not apologize for it.
1477 2011-03-23 10:47:30 <Aciid> god I love date asp's
1478 2011-03-23 10:47:42 <Aciid> fucking marketing men using those fucking stupid things to sell things to blind people
1479 2011-03-23 10:47:47 <Aciid> "ONLY 3DAYS LEFT"
1480 2011-03-23 10:48:00 <Diablo-D3> it ended up costing the American taxpayer hundreds of thousands of their homes, and billions of dollars
1481 2011-03-23 10:48:14 <Diablo-D3> but hurray for short term profits.
1482 2011-03-23 10:48:35 m00p has joined
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1484 2011-03-23 10:49:03 <yitz> Diablo-D3: right. however. your average closed fork isn't going to cause a general economic meltdown.
1485 2011-03-23 10:49:25 <Diablo-D3> yitz: who knows, theres tons of Free Software used by major companies
1486 2011-03-23 10:50:12 <yitz> Diablo-D3: yes. it would be fun if someone funded a major GPL enforcement campaign. otoh, it would probably mean the end of free software use in the mainstream.
1487 2011-03-23 10:50:44 <Diablo-D3> such a thing is already happening
1488 2011-03-23 10:51:05 <Diablo-D3> there have been hundreds of cases against major companies for violating the GPL
1489 2011-03-23 10:51:31 <molecular> yitz, why would that mean the end of free software use in the mainstream?
1490 2011-03-23 10:52:21 <Diablo-D3> if anything, the legal proceedings have increased GPL software uptake
1491 2011-03-23 10:52:36 <Diablo-D3> it proves major projects are willing to protect the rights of users.
1492 2011-03-23 10:52:45 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1493 2011-03-23 10:52:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114660 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 251 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 21 hours, 14 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67633.05292663
1494 2011-03-23 10:52:52 <yitz> molecular: if using it would mean the risk of major loss, it would cause commercial developers not to use it, even if they were willing to be compliant
1495 2011-03-23 10:53:13 <Diablo-D3> yitz: not true
1496 2011-03-23 10:53:15 <yitz> Diablo-D3: i sure hope you're right
1497 2011-03-23 10:53:16 <Diablo-D3> its a license like any other
1498 2011-03-23 10:53:23 <Diablo-D3> look how many people microsoft has sued
1499 2011-03-23 10:53:27 <Diablo-D3> for "pirating" windows
1500 2011-03-23 10:53:41 <Diablo-D3> even if you win in court, proving your software was licensed, you still lose.
1501 2011-03-23 10:53:59 <Diablo-D3> the same cant happen with GPL'ed software.
1502 2011-03-23 10:54:12 <molecular> yitz, If I understand the gpl correclty, merely using it would imply no risk. only modifying and using it in your product. likely most widespread use of free software in the business world is simple _use_, no?
1503 2011-03-23 10:54:28 <[Tycho]> "you still lose" - why ?
1504 2011-03-23 10:54:36 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: they're still stuck on Windows.
1505 2011-03-23 10:54:45 <UukGoblin> lol
1506 2011-03-23 10:54:48 <yitz> Diablo-D3: software patents are one way for big guys to throw their weight around and abuse smaller guys they don't like. there are plenty of other ways too.
1507 2011-03-23 10:54:59 <Diablo-D3> yitz: GPLv3 and ASL2 both have strong patent language.
1508 2011-03-23 10:55:06 <[Tycho]> But Windows is the best desktop OS, so it's win.
1509 2011-03-23 10:55:20 <UukGoblin> lol windows is useless for desktop
1510 2011-03-23 10:55:24 <UukGoblin> servers, maybe...
1511 2011-03-23 10:55:27 <Diablo-D3> windows is pretty shitty for a desktop
1512 2011-03-23 10:55:37 <Diablo-D3> takes too long to boot, for one
1513 2011-03-23 10:56:04 mehh has joined
1514 2011-03-23 10:56:06 <yitz> molecular: theoretically. in reality, it's one more way legal action can be brought against you even if technically you are in the right, forcing you to settle rather than absorb the legal expenses
1515 2011-03-23 10:56:06 <UukGoblin> does these windowses 7 and vistas finally got some multi-workspace support?
1516 2011-03-23 10:56:11 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, who would care since there is no competitors :)
1517 2011-03-23 10:56:27 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: um, I've been using Linux as my primary desktop OS for over a decade
1518 2011-03-23 10:56:39 <[Tycho]> What is "multi-workspace" ?
1519 2011-03-23 10:56:43 <Diablo-D3> I'd never consider Windows, its too fucking hard to get stuff done
1520 2011-03-23 10:56:46 <Diablo-D3> <3 workspaces
1521 2011-03-23 10:56:51 <Diablo-D3> aka virtual desktops
1522 2011-03-23 10:57:03 <Diablo-D3> Windows users only get to have that through third party methods
1523 2011-03-23 10:57:27 <UukGoblin> [Tycho], like, desktops
1524 2011-03-23 10:57:30 <[Tycho]> Don't remember about the previous century, but in windows 2000 it's supported with nvidia drivers.
1525 2011-03-23 10:57:32 <UukGoblin> where you can switch them around
1526 2011-03-23 10:57:38 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1527 2011-03-23 10:57:44 <[Tycho]> I still think that it's mostly useless feature.
1528 2011-03-23 10:57:58 <[Tycho]> Multiple monitors are WAY better.
1529 2011-03-23 10:58:05 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: nvidia drivers provide it
1530 2011-03-23 10:58:09 <Diablo-D3> and its kind of screwy
1531 2011-03-23 10:58:10 <UukGoblin> [Tycho], I have multiple desktops on multiple monitors
1532 2011-03-23 10:58:28 <Diablo-D3> ati drivers I think also provide it
1533 2011-03-23 10:58:33 <UukGoblin> [Tycho], it's /very/ useful when you're actually doing work rather than playing games
1534 2011-03-23 10:58:36 <Diablo-D3> and theres at least a couple other ways of doing it
1535 2011-03-23 10:58:42 <Diablo-D3> and all the desktop shell replaements do it
1536 2011-03-23 10:59:09 <UukGoblin> (and doing more than 1 thing at a time)
1537 2011-03-23 10:59:38 <yitz> molecular: so as long as people believe no one will really sue them on GPL grounds, they'll happily use GPL software, most of the time being compliant, when it doesn't cost too much. as soon as there is even a minuscule threat that it could result in actual legal action against them, it's not worth it anymore. they'll buy a commercial product whose cost is finite and well known.
1538 2011-03-23 10:59:45 * Diablo-D3 rotates between four desktop environments, each dedicated to a different task
1539 2011-03-23 10:59:48 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
1540 2011-03-23 11:00:01 <ArtForz> yup
1541 2011-03-23 11:00:16 <ArtForz> once you get used to workspaces, working without them feels so cramped
1542 2011-03-23 11:00:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1543 2011-03-23 11:00:45 <Diablo-D3> and also, no fucking middle click in windows
1544 2011-03-23 11:00:51 <Diablo-D3> so say goodbye to easy copy paste
1545 2011-03-23 11:01:03 <Diablo-D3> even the third party shit that adds it, too many apps still dont handle it
1546 2011-03-23 11:01:50 <[Tycho]> There is Ctrl+C, Shift-INS and context menu for copy-pasting :)
1547 2011-03-23 11:02:15 <Diablo-D3> yeah, more button presses
1548 2011-03-23 11:02:20 <ArtForz> yup
1549 2011-03-23 11:02:22 <Diablo-D3> I can highlight text in one app, and middle click in another
1550 2011-03-23 11:02:38 <molecular> yitz, that's stupid thinking, though. also: commercial products can be a lot worse and harder to use. example from my life: made a pretty important and quite big webapp for a huge automotive player. ran perfectly fine the first 5 years, growing. then they forced us to switch from tomcat to websphere. result: all kinds of problems, including major downtime, higher maintenance, etc...
1551 2011-03-23 11:02:58 <yitz> molecular: yup
1552 2011-03-23 11:03:04 <[Tycho]> Commercial products are always easier to use.
1553 2011-03-23 11:03:07 <UukGoblin> I can higlight text in one app, find that another uses middle-click for something different, do an xclip -out -selection primary | xclip -in -select clipboard, and then ctrl-v
1554 2011-03-23 11:03:08 <ArtForz> lol
1555 2011-03-23 11:03:09 <Diablo-D3> molecular: uh, wow, thats pretty backwards
1556 2011-03-23 11:03:12 <Diablo-D3> websphere is fucking shit
1557 2011-03-23 11:03:14 <molecular> [Tycho], no!
1558 2011-03-23 11:03:16 <Diablo-D3> jboss 6 or gtfo
1559 2011-03-23 11:03:21 <molecular> [Tycho], try websphere
1560 2011-03-23 11:03:29 <Diablo-D3> websphere makes me want to fucking stab people
1561 2011-03-23 11:03:39 <[Tycho]> Never heard about it.
1562 2011-03-23 11:03:39 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
1563 2011-03-23 11:03:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114660 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 251 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 21 hours, 14 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67633.05292663
1564 2011-03-23 11:03:44 <Diablo-D3> hell, websphere doesnt even do servlet/ejb 3 or jsf 2/facelets yet
1565 2011-03-23 11:03:50 <molecular> Diablo-D3, yeah, me too, especially IBM sales staff. ALL OF THEM!
1566 2011-03-23 11:04:00 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: oh god, it is the fucking worst app server ever created
1567 2011-03-23 11:04:10 <Diablo-D3> I think websphere alone gave javaee it's bad name
1568 2011-03-23 11:04:22 <UukGoblin> yitz, that kinda depends... people who want to resell/change software will often want commercial products. But a lot of GPL products have dual-licensing to enable that, like mysql
1569 2011-03-23 11:04:46 <molecular> Diablo-D3, you call than an app? it's a pile of crap dumped on some older version of tomcat, then labeled.
1570 2011-03-23 11:04:52 <ArtForz> or bdb ;)
1571 2011-03-23 11:05:02 <Diablo-D3> molecular: man, everything fucking has tomcat code in it
1572 2011-03-23 11:05:03 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
1573 2011-03-23 11:05:35 <yitz> UukGoblin: yes dual license sometimes is enough to convince a commercial house to use open source. it's nice to know that the commercial option is there "just in case".
1574 2011-03-23 11:05:36 <molecular> Diablo-D3, yeah. but websphere functionality-wise doesn't really _add_ anything (at least not that I know of)
1575 2011-03-23 11:05:37 <Diablo-D3> every as stack has been slowly butchering the tomcat out
1576 2011-03-23 11:05:42 <Diablo-D3> molecular: it doesnt
1577 2011-03-23 11:05:55 <ArtForz> it adds "IBM"
1578 2011-03-23 11:05:55 <Diablo-D3> its no different than geronimo in design
1579 2011-03-23 11:06:07 <Diablo-D3> infact, if they would have just used geronimo, it would have been better
1580 2011-03-23 11:06:08 <molecular> "IBM", and a lot of cost ;)
1581 2011-03-23 11:06:20 <ArtForz> well, yeah, thats the point
1582 2011-03-23 11:06:32 <UukGoblin> yitz, also, in countries like poland, it was quite backwards too in times that I remember
1583 2011-03-23 11:07:04 <UukGoblin> getting a windows license for an internet cafe was tricky, getting a license for public playing of music was next to impossible
1584 2011-03-23 11:07:06 <molecular> weirdly, it actually makes managment feel better to pay loads of money for sth.
1585 2011-03-23 11:07:30 <UukGoblin> it's their tiny brains not understanding how things work
1586 2011-03-23 11:07:35 <ArtForz> well, hookers and blow also helps
1587 2011-03-23 11:08:06 <bonsaikitten> UukGoblin: and when you have a license you may still have to call them
1588 2011-03-23 11:08:23 <molecular> that's why I left that stupid world. deciders make wrong decisions, not for the good of the company, but for their own apparent good...
1589 2011-03-23 11:08:36 <bonsaikitten> UukGoblin: amazingly they don't even support the local languages in some countries, which is an epic fail stupid aaargh
1590 2011-03-23 11:08:43 <UukGoblin> molecular, I wouldn't even care for the good of the company...
1591 2011-03-23 11:09:12 <UukGoblin> bonsaikitten, yeah, how are they supposed to fit with local law, if they're not even translated
1592 2011-03-23 11:09:33 <molecular> don't bite the hand that feeds you
1593 2011-03-23 11:10:04 <Diablo-D3> well, the problem with IBM is
1594 2011-03-23 11:10:08 <Diablo-D3> they dont produce proudcts
1595 2011-03-23 11:10:12 <bonsaikitten> UukGoblin: nah, I mean you call the MS activation hotline and you get a robot with the wrong languages
1596 2011-03-23 11:10:14 <Diablo-D3> they just market them
1597 2011-03-23 11:10:18 <molecular> the problem with big companies is that poeple doing good work stay at the bottom and stupid people float to the top (like hot air)
1598 2011-03-23 11:10:26 <Diablo-D3> molecular: nope
1599 2011-03-23 11:10:29 <Diablo-D3> its actually more involved
1600 2011-03-23 11:10:31 <bonsaikitten> UukGoblin: it offends people, it's hard to understand, all in all really failerific
1601 2011-03-23 11:10:39 <Diablo-D3> the ONLY way to get an idiot out of your office/department/whatever
1602 2011-03-23 11:10:43 <Diablo-D3> is to promote them out
1603 2011-03-23 11:10:59 <slush> error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: The transaction was rejected. This might happen if some of the coins in your wallet were already spent, such as if you used a copy of wallet.dat and coins were spent in the copy but not marked as spent here."}
1604 2011-03-23 11:10:59 <Diablo-D3> thus, the stupidest person in the company is usually the CEO
1605 2011-03-23 11:11:07 <slush> rescan?
1606 2011-03-23 11:11:28 <molecular> Diablo-D3, that's what I'm trying to say
1607 2011-03-23 11:12:40 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but it doesnt happen naturally
1608 2011-03-23 11:12:49 <Diablo-D3> its by sure force of will by the intelligent people in the company
1609 2011-03-23 11:13:02 <molecular> btw ArtForz: thanks for your "limitfreerelay"-hint. Using git version now, no more rpc troubles since 2:00 this morning. Before that I had it consistently on each fresh tx, weirdly even after bitcoin restart.
1610 2011-03-23 11:13:11 <Diablo-D3> they dont care where the fucker goes as long as they're not in their office
1611 2011-03-23 11:13:15 <yitz> who gets the txfee? (that should be in the faq)
1612 2011-03-23 11:13:34 <Diablo-D3> yitz: the person who created the block.
1613 2011-03-23 11:14:14 <Keefe> iow, whoever publishes the txn
1614 2011-03-23 11:14:32 <yitz> Diablo-D3: hmm, interesting.
1615 2011-03-23 11:14:50 genjix_ has joined
1616 2011-03-23 11:15:03 genjix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1617 2011-03-23 11:15:03 <yitz> how do you set paytxfee using rpc?
1618 2011-03-23 11:15:18 <Keefe> publish = include in mined block, != broadcast
1619 2011-03-23 11:15:40 Zenergy has joined
1620 2011-03-23 11:15:48 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1621 2011-03-23 11:16:19 Vladimir has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1622 2011-03-23 11:16:23 Avemo has joined
1623 2011-03-23 11:16:34 <TD> yitz: i think that requires a patch that isn't in mainline. not sure. you can set it using a command line flag currently.
1624 2011-03-23 11:16:44 <TD> today fees aren't usuall needed
1625 2011-03-23 11:16:58 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: looks like GTX590 = fail
1626 2011-03-23 11:17:21 <yitz> TD: ah ok. so don't bother?
1627 2011-03-23 11:17:37 <ArtForz> they had to cropple core/shader to 607/1214 mhz
1628 2011-03-23 11:17:50 <Diablo-D3> cropple == crop + cripple
1629 2011-03-23 11:17:53 <ArtForz> yep
1630 2011-03-23 11:17:55 <Diablo-D3> best new word ever
1631 2011-03-23 11:18:13 <ArtForz> and TDP is 365 nvidia-watts
1632 2011-03-23 11:18:17 Avemo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1633 2011-03-23 11:18:26 <TD> yitz: for now don't worry about it
1634 2011-03-23 11:18:27 <Diablo-D3> so like over 9000 real watts
1635 2011-03-23 11:18:31 <molecular> justmoon gave me a link to the video: http://rapidshare.com/files/453956269/What_is_Bitcoin_hd.zip
1636 2011-03-23 11:18:43 <molecular> anyone make a torrent yet, still needed?
1637 2011-03-23 11:18:47 Avemo has joined
1638 2011-03-23 11:18:58 <yitz> TD: ok thanks!
1639 2011-03-23 11:19:01 <[Tycho]> There is youtube :)
1640 2011-03-23 11:19:04 <molecular> yeah
1641 2011-03-23 11:19:17 <ArtForz> thats 17% lower clocks than a 570 ...
1642 2011-03-23 11:20:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but its still triple fail for another reason
1643 2011-03-23 11:20:18 <Diablo-D3> memory bandwidth is still fucking shit
1644 2011-03-23 11:20:33 <ArtForz> having full set of shaders, that means shader-wise it's *only* 11.5% slower than 2*570
1645 2011-03-23 11:21:48 Avemo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1646 2011-03-23 11:22:14 Avemo has joined
1647 2011-03-23 11:22:28 <ArtForz> mem BW is 7.8% higher than 2*570, 14.8% lower than 2*580 ...
1648 2011-03-23 11:24:29 <Diablo-D3> boned
1649 2011-03-23 11:24:58 <ArtForz> nvidia, meet power wall
1650 2011-03-23 11:25:59 <molecular> what's "clearinghouse" in german?
1651 2011-03-23 11:26:04 <molecular> Verrechnungsstelle?
1652 2011-03-23 11:27:19 BertVoegele has joined
1653 2011-03-23 11:28:36 puddinpop has joined
1654 2011-03-23 11:29:22 <ArtForz> jup, oder Abrechnungsstelle
1655 2011-03-23 11:30:09 <molecular> translating the promo vid subs... Mining is kind of hard, too. Maybe i'll just use "Mining"
1656 2011-03-23 11:30:13 <molecular> Bergbau, wtf
1657 2011-03-23 11:30:25 <BertVoegele> Hello, is someone here with an advice howto compile btc-cpuminer on an ARM machine under debian lenny?
1658 2011-03-23 11:31:20 <ArtForz> molecular: good luck, lots of bitcoin terms dont really have a decent german translation :/
1659 2011-03-23 11:31:51 <doublec> BertVoegele: does it not just build?
1660 2011-03-23 11:32:09 <molecular> ArtForz, true, like "block of coins", damnit
1661 2011-03-23 11:32:12 eps1 has joined
1662 2011-03-23 11:32:22 <ArtForz> bitcoins schürfen klingt irgendwie... seltsam
1663 2011-03-23 11:32:41 <molecular> auf jeden. benutz selber auch in deutsch: "minen"
1664 2011-03-23 11:32:56 <molecular> "heut wieder'n fuffi gemined" ;)
1665 2011-03-23 11:33:18 <molecular> oder "finden"
1666 2011-03-23 11:33:51 <ArtForz> yup, ich benutz meistens finden
1667 2011-03-23 11:34:06 <molecular> "finden" is pretty accurate
1668 2011-03-23 11:34:37 <ArtForz> block of coins? it's a block of transactions ;)
1669 2011-03-23 11:35:05 <molecular> sure, but I'm translating what the english speaker says... not what I think. At least I'm trying to do that
1670 2011-03-23 11:35:25 <ArtForz> ahh, yeah
1671 2011-03-23 11:35:39 <molecular> "Bitcoins 'abzubauen' kostet eine bestimmte Menge arbeit." <- f.ck, das holpert
1672 2011-03-23 11:35:54 <ArtForz> jup
1673 2011-03-23 11:36:11 <molecular> "Rechenaufwand"
1674 2011-03-23 11:36:29 <molecular> "Bitcoins zu finden ist rechenaufwändig"?
1675 2011-03-23 11:36:56 <ArtForz> klingt ganz brauchbar
1676 2011-03-23 11:37:12 <ArtForz> evtl. erfordert hohen rechenaufwand?
1677 2011-03-23 11:37:42 <molecular> I think I'll use "generieren" for "mining", though. It's used further up: "Bitcoins werden generiert - überall im Netz verteilt."
1678 2011-03-23 11:37:53 <ArtForz> yup, that also works
1679 2011-03-23 11:38:02 <ArtForz> considering we use "generate" in official client
1680 2011-03-23 11:38:05 <molecular> "erfordert..." is besser, ja
1681 2011-03-23 11:39:08 <jeremias> lederhosen
1682 2011-03-23 11:39:26 <jeremias> ich habe meinen bitcoin in meinen lederhosen, ach so
1683 2011-03-23 11:39:49 <jeremias> (what is the official language of the channel, btw?)
1684 2011-03-23 11:40:37 <molecular> english, I would guess
1685 2011-03-23 11:40:52 <Blitzboom> für alle deutschsprachigen: #bitcoin-de
1686 2011-03-23 11:40:55 <molecular> forgive us, I'm trying to translate promi vid subs to german
1687 2011-03-23 11:41:03 <molecular> promo
1688 2011-03-23 11:41:18 <jeremias> lol, it's ok, german is just funny language
1689 2011-03-23 11:41:27 <jeremias> i'm moving to berlin actually next autumn
1690 2011-03-23 11:41:44 <molecular> and has long words: donaudampfschiffahrtskapitänsmütze
1691 2011-03-23 11:41:47 <Blitzboom> no, english is a funny language :D
1692 2011-03-23 11:42:11 <molecular> jeremias, cool. welcome!
1693 2011-03-23 11:42:16 <d__> ich bin dein vater. nooooo
1694 2011-03-23 11:42:21 <molecular> lol
1695 2011-03-23 11:42:30 <molecular> meine Eva!
1696 2011-03-23 11:42:44 <jeremias> molecular: are you from berlin? :)
1697 2011-03-23 11:42:48 <molecular> no, hamburg
1698 2011-03-23 11:42:59 <jeremias> ok
1699 2011-03-23 11:43:14 <molecular> pretty close to Berlin, but twice the cost of living ;)
1700 2011-03-23 11:43:21 <jeremias> I was just wondering if anyone would know what is the job market for programmers/developers around berlin right now
1701 2011-03-23 11:43:26 <molecular> shit
1702 2011-03-23 11:43:38 <molecular> Berlin has one of the highest unemployment rates in germany
1703 2011-03-23 11:43:49 <molecular> but actually, good programmers are always in need
1704 2011-03-23 11:44:32 <d__> maybe the CCC can provide you with contacts?
1705 2011-03-23 11:44:34 <jeremias> it doesn't matter that much for me, since I'm running proftable one-man-business, but I would prefer a job when I move there, helps better to "integrate to society"
1706 2011-03-23 11:44:40 <molecular> high unemployment because: every fucking artist with no job moves there :p
1707 2011-03-23 11:44:55 <jeremias> yeah, I heard that cost of living in berlin is pretty cheap
1708 2011-03-23 11:45:02 <Blitzboom> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
1709 2011-03-23 11:45:02 <jeremias> so propably good place for artists :D
1710 2011-03-23 11:45:13 <molecular> jeremias, with your skills you can easily find work. the pay might not be great, though.
1711 2011-03-23 11:45:17 <Blitzboom> nice spike i guess
1712 2011-03-23 11:45:32 overtorque has joined
1713 2011-03-23 11:45:40 <molecular> jeremias, there's many artists. on the one hand that makes a thriving community. on the other hand: there's many artists :p
1714 2011-03-23 11:45:42 <ArtForz> not much more impressive than the one around 13/03
1715 2011-03-23 11:46:21 <Blitzboom> hmm yeah. letâs see what slashdot brings
1716 2011-03-23 11:46:23 <BertVoegele> doublec: no :-) , "gcc -DHAS_YASM -Wall -g -O3 -pthread -o minerd cpu-miner.o util.o sha256_generic.o sha256_4way.o sha256_via.o sha256_cryptopp.o sha256_sse2_amd64.o -lcurl compat/jansson/libjansson.a -lpthread x86_64/libx8664.a " gives an error : "x86_64/libx8664.a: could not read symbols: Archive has no index; run ranlib to add one"
1717 2011-03-23 11:46:25 <molecular> next thing that would impress me is euro-parity
1718 2011-03-23 11:47:13 <Blitzboom> next thing that would impress me is an actual established online shop accepting bitcoins
1719 2011-03-23 11:47:31 <doublec> BertVoegele: you'll need to modify it so it doesn't trry to link the x86_64 stuff
1720 2011-03-23 11:47:47 <doublec> or the sse2 stuff
1721 2011-03-23 11:47:55 BlueMatt has joined
1722 2011-03-23 11:49:03 <molecular> Blitzboom, yeah, or goldbar-parity, whichever comes first
1723 2011-03-23 11:49:49 <BertVoegele> doublec: via ./configure or manually ?
1724 2011-03-23 11:50:52 <BlueMatt> anyone have windows set up to build bitcoin?
1725 2011-03-23 11:51:23 <doublec> BertVoegele: probably manually.
1726 2011-03-23 11:51:41 <doublec> it seems to use the presence of yasm to decide whether to build the x86_64 code
1727 2011-03-23 11:51:55 <subpar_> ;;bc,stats
1728 2011-03-23 11:51:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114667 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 244 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 20 hours, 3 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67698.08265817
1729 2011-03-23 11:51:58 <doublec> but there's also the other SSE code - not sure how that's decided to be included
1730 2011-03-23 11:51:58 rli has joined
1731 2011-03-23 11:52:19 <doublec> BertVoegele: whats the ARM machine? You probably won't get much of a hash rate
1732 2011-03-23 11:52:33 subpar_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1733 2011-03-23 11:52:59 <BertVoegele> doublec: a couple of old NAS-Boxes running lenny
1734 2011-03-23 11:53:00 subpar has joined
1735 2011-03-23 11:54:45 <molecular> fuck, the video is so fast that I can't even read my german translation... will have to find shorter sentences
1736 2011-03-23 11:56:29 <da2ce7> molecular, lol
1737 2011-03-23 11:57:06 <genjix_> when you do the merkle hash, does it matter what order the transactions are hashed in?
1738 2011-03-23 11:57:10 genjix_ is now known as genjix
1739 2011-03-23 11:57:19 <ArtForz> yes
1740 2011-03-23 11:57:34 <genjix> ok, where can i see how they're ordered?
1741 2011-03-23 11:57:40 <ArtForz> same order they are in the block
1742 2011-03-23 11:57:45 gasteve has joined
1743 2011-03-23 11:57:48 <genjix> ahh ok.
1744 2011-03-23 11:58:15 <ArtForz> it's important for the "duplicate last hash to make even number" rule
1745 2011-03-23 11:59:52 <genjix> not sure what that rule is?
1746 2011-03-23 12:00:05 <ArtForz> if block has tx 1..5, hash em to get h1 ... h5, duplicate last to get even number = next level is hash(h1 . h2), hash(h3 . h4), hash(h5 . h5)
1747 2011-03-23 12:00:21 <genjix> right. thanks
1748 2011-03-23 12:00:46 <ArtForz> after that you have 3, hh1 to hh3, so next level is hash(hh1 . hh2), hash(hh3 . hh3)
1749 2011-03-23 12:01:09 <genjix> ok
1750 2011-03-23 12:01:12 <ArtForz> then you have 2, so final merkle hash is hash(hhh1 . hhh2)
1751 2011-03-23 12:01:57 <ArtForz> ( . is simple concatenation)
1752 2011-03-23 12:03:16 <genjix> ok thanks ArtForz
1753 2011-03-23 12:03:22 <molecular> Blitzboom, maybe we should repost "What is Bitcoin" to /r/videos to get more attention?
1754 2011-03-23 12:04:33 <Blitzboom> do i have to remove the one at /r/bitcoin for this? also, letâs continue at #bitcoin-discussion
1755 2011-03-23 12:04:44 <molecular> "What is Bitcoin - if you can follow this video, you've understood bitcoin" or something?
1756 2011-03-23 12:04:53 <molecular> Blitzboom, no, you can just repost, I think
1757 2011-03-23 12:05:25 <tcatm> mencoder -speed 0.9 -af scaletempo $file -o slower_video.avi
1758 2011-03-23 12:06:31 TheAncientGoat has joined
1759 2011-03-23 12:06:38 <xelister> ArtForz: that is explained on wiki?
1760 2011-03-23 12:07:53 BertVoegele has left ("Leaving.")
1761 2011-03-23 12:08:00 <ArtForz> I think so
1762 2011-03-23 12:08:12 <ArtForz> if not, it should be
1763 2011-03-23 12:10:38 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1764 2011-03-23 12:11:56 <xelister> so..
1765 2011-03-23 12:12:10 <xelister> h[1..N] are the sha256 of transactions
1766 2011-03-23 12:12:14 <xelister> and then markel = .... ?
1767 2011-03-23 12:12:42 <xelister> how do you combine this next-level into markel
1768 2011-03-23 12:13:06 <genjix> xelister: no the merkle is how the transactions are hashed into the block
1769 2011-03-23 12:13:09 <xelister> is markel a long string of hash(h1.h2) . hash(h3.h4) . .... and then sha256 of it?
1770 2011-03-23 12:13:16 <genjix> no it's a tree
1771 2011-03-23 12:13:16 <ArtForz> sha256(sha256(concat(h1, h2)), sha256(sha256(concat(h3, h4)), ...
1772 2011-03-23 12:13:31 <ArtForz> biutcoin builds the tree one level at a time
1773 2011-03-23 12:13:40 <xelister> uhhh
1774 2011-03-23 12:13:59 <genjix> xelister: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hash_tree.png
1775 2011-03-23 12:14:00 <xelister> but "markel root" is one number (sha256) that is written in block, right?
1776 2011-03-23 12:14:09 <ArtForz> yes
1777 2011-03-23 12:14:12 <genjix> 000 = transaction 1
1778 2011-03-23 12:14:17 <genjix> 001 = transaction 2
1779 2011-03-23 12:14:18 <genjix> .etc
1780 2011-03-23 12:15:00 <genjix> Hash 0-0 is the txid for 000
1781 2011-03-23 12:15:20 <xelister> on that diagram, if we want ot add ata block 004, then we take current "top hash", concate block 004 to it and sha256 that? or what
1782 2011-03-23 12:15:35 <genjix> no
1783 2011-03-23 12:15:49 <genjix> if we want a block 4 we add another part at the bottom
1784 2011-03-23 12:16:06 <genjix> but with Data block 004, Data block 004
1785 2011-03-23 12:16:10 <genjix> (repeated twice)
1786 2011-03-23 12:16:15 <xelister> ok so it creates Hash 2-2
1787 2011-03-23 12:16:20 <xelister> and it creates Hash 2?
1788 2011-03-23 12:16:25 <xelister> and now there are 3 hashes creating the top hash?
1789 2011-03-23 12:16:36 <genjix> yep and 6 below that
1790 2011-03-23 12:17:00 <xelister> so top hash is sha256( concation(hash1.hash2.hash3.hashN) ) ?
1791 2011-03-23 12:17:00 <genjix> then that top hash is put in the block header
1792 2011-03-23 12:17:01 <ArtForz> imo my half-a-node shows it pretty well
1793 2011-03-23 12:17:27 <genjix> what's half a node?
1794 2011-03-23 12:17:53 <ArtForz> python network protocol parser/builder
1795 2011-03-23 12:18:14 <xelister> Y U NO RESPONDE :>
1796 2011-03-23 12:19:09 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/bAsUftfQ
1797 2011-03-23 12:19:54 <ArtForz> bitcoin actually does the "reduce hash list by one level" in-place
1798 2011-03-23 12:20:30 <genjix> SHA256 is deprecated btw
1799 2011-03-23 12:20:41 <ArtForz> says who?
1800 2011-03-23 12:20:44 <genjix> import hashlib; hashlib.sha256(...).digest()
1801 2011-03-23 12:20:48 <ArtForz> yeah, sure
1802 2011-03-23 12:21:16 <ArtForz> I dont think py2.6 cares ;)
1803 2011-03-23 12:21:55 <genjix> heh funky
1804 2011-03-23 12:22:19 <xelister> Americans shoot first civilians in Libia. Civilians that tried to help to rescue pilot of downed F-15
1805 2011-03-23 12:22:23 <genjix> could also use lambdas for another fun way to do it
1806 2011-03-23 12:22:31 <ArtForz> yup
1807 2011-03-23 12:22:42 <ArtForz> I tried to keep it readable for C coders
1808 2011-03-23 12:23:06 <genjix> makes sense.
1809 2011-03-23 12:27:01 <Diablo-D3> xelister: they thought they were part of gadhaffi's forces
1810 2011-03-23 12:27:05 <Diablo-D3> and no, they didnt shoot them
1811 2011-03-23 12:27:12 <Diablo-D3> they dropped bombs in the area between the two
1812 2011-03-23 12:27:18 <Diablo-D3> they were about a quarter of a mile between each other
1813 2011-03-23 12:27:23 <slush> xelister: source?
1814 2011-03-23 12:28:34 <xelister> slush: polish newspaper so far
1815 2011-03-23 12:28:49 <xelister> Diablo-D3: yeap perhaps this was the reason
1816 2011-03-23 12:29:18 <jrabbit> xelister: goddamnit
1817 2011-03-23 12:29:41 <xelister> imo, when you are invading another country, you should put safety of the rescued people, above rescuers themselves. Same as professional/good police should do
1818 2011-03-23 12:30:35 <Diablo-D3> xelister: it wasnt to harm them
1819 2011-03-23 12:30:41 <Diablo-D3> it was just to tell them to stay away from the site
1820 2011-03-23 12:30:56 <xelister> sure, and yet pepople landed in hospital
1821 2011-03-23 12:31:07 <Diablo-D3> with minor injuries
1822 2011-03-23 12:31:18 <xelister> if it would be done in conditions of USA soliders *inside USA* defending homeland, then I wouldnt have any objections here
1823 2011-03-23 12:31:28 <Diablo-D3> xelister: woah woah woah dude
1824 2011-03-23 12:31:35 <Diablo-D3> we're under UN orders to defend civilians here
1825 2011-03-23 12:31:43 <xelister> well I dunno about this
1826 2011-03-23 12:31:49 dmnd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1827 2011-03-23 12:31:55 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1828 2011-03-23 12:32:04 eltigre has joined
1829 2011-03-23 12:32:06 <eltigre> hey, can I run a wallet on my computer without being able to configure the firewall?
1830 2011-03-23 12:32:13 <Diablo-D3> the UN security counsel passed a resolution ordering the coalition forces to defend civilians
1831 2011-03-23 12:32:17 <xelister> why only Libia's civilians are now rescued, when there are far morse wars going on for many years killing close to MILIONS in like Cambodge and other places
1832 2011-03-23 12:32:40 <xelister> Diablo-D3: Im not sure if UN is right here. Well Im not sure either way..
1833 2011-03-23 12:32:44 <Diablo-D3> xelister: whats going on in the middle east now is a one of a knd kind of thing
1834 2011-03-23 12:32:52 <Diablo-D3> the middle east may infact see peace in our lifetimes
1835 2011-03-23 12:32:52 <xelister> but one thing that I am sure of, is that there are places far more needing "rescue"
1836 2011-03-23 12:32:52 <eltigre> xelister, because they request help and because we actually know who's attacking civilians
1837 2011-03-23 12:32:57 <Diablo-D3> so quit bitching about it
1838 2011-03-23 12:33:00 dmnd has joined
1839 2011-03-23 12:33:00 dmnd has quit (Changing host)
1840 2011-03-23 12:33:00 dmnd has joined
1841 2011-03-23 12:33:08 <xelister> so this obviously is no sort for-freedom or altruistic action here
1842 2011-03-23 12:33:08 <Diablo-D3> yes, we should have killed gadaffi 30 years ago
1843 2011-03-23 12:33:10 <Diablo-D3> but we didnt
1844 2011-03-23 12:33:25 <eltigre> hey, can I run a wallet on my computer without being able to configure the firewall?
1845 2011-03-23 12:33:26 <xelister> why is NATO and everyone not interveaning in like Camdodge
1846 2011-03-23 12:33:37 <Diablo-D3> eltigre: you have to allow port 8333 through
1847 2011-03-23 12:33:40 <xelister> and all this places where MILIONS are actually being killed/raped all the time
1848 2011-03-23 12:33:42 <eltigre> I can't
1849 2011-03-23 12:33:53 <Diablo-D3> eltigre: then you'll have very few connections and bitcoin will be slow
1850 2011-03-23 12:34:03 <eltigre> I still can't
1851 2011-03-23 12:34:21 <eltigre> how do I use bitcoins then?
1852 2011-03-23 12:34:36 <Diablo-D3> eltigre: erm, what I just said applies if you DONT open port 8333.
1853 2011-03-23 12:34:45 <Diablo-D3> eltigre: and this applies to any app that requires an incoming port
1854 2011-03-23 12:34:48 <Diablo-D3> its not unique to bitcoin
1855 2011-03-23 12:34:52 <xelister> eltigre: your comp connects outside so its fine. also you can use tor
1856 2011-03-23 12:34:54 <eltigre> well at the moment I have 0 connection
1857 2011-03-23 12:34:59 <Diablo-D3> and yes, you can use tor.
1858 2011-03-23 12:36:11 <eltigre> hm I don't have any connections, in my linux client
1859 2011-03-23 12:36:19 <eltigre> can I change that?
1860 2011-03-23 12:36:20 <xelister> btw, so what is actually Kaddafi doing to civilians that they need rescuing?
1861 2011-03-23 12:37:03 <xelister> can the poor opresses Americans that are thrown to prison for smoking a bit of weed call Russia to be freed from Obama ;)
1862 2011-03-23 12:37:27 <Netsniper> i think weed is illegal in russia too
1863 2011-03-23 12:37:40 <eltigre> xelister, democracy sucks if your opinion is in the minority
1864 2011-03-23 12:38:12 <Netsniper> it sucks if its in the majority and lacks corporate funding
1865 2011-03-23 12:38:13 <xelister> or are any opressions o.k. as long as they are conducted by Democracital government. E.g. socieity passess in democratic elloction law to take adventage of any wemen they like, and then it is fine and dandy because its Democratical voting
1866 2011-03-23 12:38:31 <xelister> eltigre: exactly
1867 2011-03-23 12:38:33 <eltigre> no, actually most Americans believe drugs should be illegal
1868 2011-03-23 12:38:58 <eltigre> my client is still not connected
1869 2011-03-23 12:39:01 <xelister> why strong narcotic alcohol is fine, while weaker narcotic weed is bad?
1870 2011-03-23 12:39:10 <jrabbit> eltigre: propaganda.
1871 2011-03-23 12:39:18 <Netsniper> why would majority support need a law
1872 2011-03-23 12:39:19 <eltigre> you can't control alcohol
1873 2011-03-23 12:39:33 <jrabbit> eltigre: and those in nazi germany didn't tihkn the jews caused them to lose WWI? :P
1874 2011-03-23 12:39:33 <xelister> eltigre: btw you can't controll drugs too, only you help mafias
1875 2011-03-23 12:39:34 <noagendamarket> did someone say al capone ?
1876 2011-03-23 12:39:35 <eltigre> you can control weed a lot better
1877 2011-03-23 12:39:40 <Netsniper> by nessesity the majority opinion is realized without intervention
1878 2011-03-23 12:39:45 <jrabbit> eltigre: I think the DEA proves you can't
1879 2011-03-23 12:39:56 <ArtForz> yeah, not really
1880 2011-03-23 12:40:00 <jrabbit> they try pretty hard
1881 2011-03-23 12:40:08 <eltigre> well still weed is less common than alcohol was under the prohibition
1882 2011-03-23 12:40:12 BlueMatt has joined
1883 2011-03-23 12:40:13 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1884 2011-03-23 12:40:13 BlueMatt has joined
1885 2011-03-23 12:40:15 <xelister> fail = pow(try,2)
1886 2011-03-23 12:40:28 <jrabbit> alcohol has a longer history in our culture.
1887 2011-03-23 12:40:33 <eltigre> you can make alcohol easily, you can't grow weed in your 32m² flat
1888 2011-03-23 12:41:19 <xelister> jrabbit: herbs where longer, no?
1889 2011-03-23 12:41:28 <ArtForz> err, yes, you can, what were we talking about?
1890 2011-03-23 12:41:29 <xelister> actually, both are very old obviosly
1891 2011-03-23 12:41:43 <eltigre> I believe the US should legalize all drugs, that way they would stop importing Crime and exporting Violence, Weapons and War
1892 2011-03-23 12:42:05 <xelister> eltigre: heeeeey, you are talking like a pedorist
1893 2011-03-23 12:42:50 <jrabbit> xelister: maybe in some places.
1894 2011-03-23 12:43:08 <xelister> <_<
1895 2011-03-23 12:43:09 <eltigre> I actually had to look that up. Normally Americans don't know any English words I don't.
1896 2011-03-23 12:43:14 <jrabbit> like theres coca leaf chewers in some nation in Asia but its not everywhere
1897 2011-03-23 12:43:22 <xelister> look what up?
1898 2011-03-23 12:43:28 <eltigre> pedorist
1899 2011-03-23 12:43:52 <xelister> I made this word..
1900 2011-03-23 12:43:55 <xelister> so, well you talk like a terrorist; so why not slap a "OMG PEDO blararahrhghghg" tag on you so we can arrest you FOR THE CHILDREN
1901 2011-03-23 12:44:28 <eltigre> I don't get the joke. Maybe a cultural thing.
1902 2011-03-23 12:44:36 <eltigre> I still don't have bitcoin connections
1903 2011-03-23 12:44:37 <jrabbit> its not really a joke...
1904 2011-03-23 12:45:19 <eltigre> is there some connection list I could import?
1905 2011-03-23 12:45:54 <xelister> eltigre: some americans thing everyone that is not super patriotic and support THEIR own (best in the world, blessed by god) system and view on world, is a terrorist. Also they see pedos everywhere and all is done "for the children". Soon they should neutering people FOR THE CHILDREEEEEN
1906 2011-03-23 12:45:57 <xelister> *think
1907 2011-03-23 12:46:21 <ArtForz> well, communist doesnt work as well as it used to without the CCCP, so they had to find *something* ;)
1908 2011-03-23 12:46:33 <xelister> you listen to torrents? terrorist!
1909 2011-03-23 12:46:39 <xelister> don love uncle sam? terrorist.
1910 2011-03-23 12:46:40 <xelister> etc
1911 2011-03-23 12:47:01 <xelister> well this is a big question though, why all this restrictions
1912 2011-03-23 12:47:36 <xelister> e.g. for thousands of years people 1) smoked herbs 2) drinken fermented beverages 3) had sex with (often wifes/partners) of age from 13-15 years typically
1913 2011-03-23 12:48:08 <xelister> suddenly all changed quite recently. Why, one idea is to create huge demand by limited supply
1914 2011-03-23 12:48:18 <eltigre> and thousands of years they didn't grok the math that says this is bad
1915 2011-03-23 12:48:21 <TD> eltigre: you can run it with -connect=69.56.173.164 if you like
1916 2011-03-23 12:48:28 <TD> eltigre: that'll force it to connect to one of my long-lived nodes
1917 2011-03-23 12:48:37 <TD> but it usually finds connections after a little while
1918 2011-03-23 12:48:41 <xelister> e.g. you fallen in love with some 16yo girl like a normal human - fine, but you have to work for gov or pay bribes to "get away" with it
1919 2011-03-23 12:48:43 <xelister> same for drugs
1920 2011-03-23 12:49:07 <ArtForz> actually in .de thats perfectly legal ;)
1921 2011-03-23 12:49:15 <eltigre> td: thank you
1922 2011-03-23 12:49:18 <xelister> yea you can also say that for thousands years peple did wars
1923 2011-03-23 12:49:26 <xelister> and that only recently that changed thanks to USA
1924 2011-03-23 12:49:29 <xelister> ... no.... wait.
1925 2011-03-23 12:49:30 <xelister> =)
1926 2011-03-23 12:49:33 <ArtForz> just dont write about it, because THAT would be child porn
1927 2011-03-23 12:50:04 <xelister> ok but you can say people didnt had medicine or belived in voodoo etc... well ok that is clearly a good progress
1928 2011-03-23 12:50:09 <xelister> but thoes are not restrictions
1929 2011-03-23 12:50:11 <xelister> hmm.
1930 2011-03-23 12:50:34 gavinandresen has joined
1931 2011-03-23 12:50:38 <eltigre> well we now have evidence that more than a little alcohol is deadly in the long run
1932 2011-03-23 12:51:13 <eltigre> and we have evidence that smoking weed regularly has a strong effects on the mind
1933 2011-03-23 12:51:32 <ArtForz> we do?
1934 2011-03-23 12:51:37 <eltigre> yes
1935 2011-03-23 12:51:42 <genjix> blocks follow a poisson distribution, right?
1936 2011-03-23 12:51:45 <eltigre> the reports are mixed
1937 2011-03-23 12:53:03 <eltigre> genjix, where did you get that from?
1938 2011-03-23 12:53:05 <ArtForz> iirc the only studies that showed significant neurological changes done with doses orders of magnitude beyond therapeutic/recreative
1939 2011-03-23 12:53:11 <ArtForz> genjix: they do
1940 2011-03-23 12:53:16 <genjix> k
1941 2011-03-23 12:53:33 <eltigre> what are the parameters of the poisson model?
1942 2011-03-23 12:53:46 <genjix> learn to google
1943 2011-03-23 12:54:09 <eltigre> I meant the parameters of this concrete poisson model
1944 2011-03-23 12:54:41 <ArtForz> 6 events/hour expected average at nominal hashrate/difficulty
1945 2011-03-23 12:54:42 <eltigre> I can do bayesian inference but I don't know how "blocks follow poisson" is meant in this case
1946 2011-03-23 12:55:17 <genjix> it means how often each new confirm comes per time
1947 2011-03-23 12:55:36 <eltigre> ah ok
1948 2011-03-23 12:56:14 <genjix> so i guess lambda = frequency of confirms
1949 2011-03-23 12:56:25 <eltigre> makes sense
1950 2011-03-23 12:56:31 <eltigre> lambda changes over time?
1951 2011-03-23 12:56:42 <ArtForz> well, yeah, kinda
1952 2011-03-23 12:56:43 <genjix> every 2 weeks
1953 2011-03-23 12:57:06 <genjix> depends on the sample :p
1954 2011-03-23 12:57:12 <ArtForz> it varies with hashrate vs difficulty, hashrate is kinda all over the place and difficulty only adjusts every 2 weeks
1955 2011-03-23 12:57:53 Teslah has joined
1956 2011-03-23 12:58:04 <eltigre> difficulty means the blocks are harder to generate every time a new solution is found?
1957 2011-03-23 12:58:10 <ArtForz> errr... not quite
1958 2011-03-23 12:58:18 frewsxcv has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1959 2011-03-23 12:58:20 Teslah has quit (Client Quit)
1960 2011-03-23 12:58:23 frewsxcv has joined
1961 2011-03-23 12:58:23 frewsxcv has quit (Changing host)
1962 2011-03-23 12:58:23 frewsxcv has joined
1963 2011-03-23 12:58:23 <genjix> difficulty adjusts every 2 weeks
1964 2011-03-23 12:58:39 <eltigre> who adjusts the difficulty?
1965 2011-03-23 12:58:44 Teslah has joined
1966 2011-03-23 12:58:44 <ArtForz> everyone
1967 2011-03-23 12:58:50 <eltigre> why?
1968 2011-03-23 12:58:53 <ArtForz> every 2016 blocks, difficulty is adjusted by * (14 days / actual time taken)
1969 2011-03-23 12:58:59 <eltigre> ah ok
1970 2011-03-23 12:59:13 <ArtForz> so rate of block generation stays at about 10 min average long-term
1971 2011-03-23 12:59:22 rli has left ()
1972 2011-03-23 12:59:31 <ArtForz> errr, 10 min/block
1973 2011-03-23 12:59:50 <eltigre> I see
1974 2011-03-23 13:00:30 <ArtForz> sor time between blocks, iirc expected distribution is exponential
1975 2011-03-23 13:00:40 <eltigre> ok
1976 2011-03-23 13:00:50 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1977 2011-03-23 13:01:21 <TD> does anyone know of a simple log rotation hack i can use for my ~/.bitcoin directory
1978 2011-03-23 13:01:26 molecular has joined
1979 2011-03-23 13:01:27 <ArtForz> yes
1980 2011-03-23 13:01:27 <TD> that doesn't require some kind of crazy config file
1981 2011-03-23 13:01:30 <TD> (ideally)
1982 2011-03-23 13:01:35 <xelister> eltigre: well I have evicence that not excercising regullary is bad for health.... is that reason to criminalize not excercising?
1983 2011-03-23 13:01:37 <TD> ArtForz: how do you do it?
1984 2011-03-23 13:01:37 <genjix> jesus christ, the amount of hell i go through to get my money on/off poker sites...
1985 2011-03-23 13:01:43 <ArtForz> logrotate
1986 2011-03-23 13:02:05 <eltigre> xelister, could you make peopele exercise by law?
1987 2011-03-23 13:02:12 <xelister> eltigre: sure
1988 2011-03-23 13:02:16 <eltigre> no you can't
1989 2011-03-23 13:02:24 <eltigre> impossible to enforce
1990 2011-03-23 13:02:29 <ArtForz> sure you can
1991 2011-03-23 13:02:36 <xelister> eltigre: of course you can
1992 2011-03-23 13:02:48 <xelister> already happened some time ago... afair... in 1984
1993 2011-03-23 13:02:51 <eltigre> along comes whoever heard of gandhi or Martin Luther king and you get a shit load of satyagraha
1994 2011-03-23 13:03:00 <xelister> :trollface:>: (but it is true)
1995 2011-03-23 13:03:10 <genjix> TD: why not do what mysql does?
1996 2011-03-23 13:03:10 <TD> i guess i'll read about setting up logrotate
1997 2011-03-23 13:03:32 <TD> genjix: what does mysql do ?
1998 2011-03-23 13:03:33 <eltigre> another question about bitcoin... do you have a problem with money laundering?
1999 2011-03-23 13:03:34 <genjix> mysql truncates old logs into tarballs
2000 2011-03-23 13:03:44 <genjix> *the old part of the log
2001 2011-03-23 13:03:55 <TD> yeah. i'd rather just truncate it to a certain size
2002 2011-03-23 13:03:56 <xelister> eltigre: we dont have a problem with money laundering, but the government has. tu-dum-tsssh
2003 2011-03-23 13:04:01 <genjix> error.log mysql.log mysql.log.2.gz mysql.log.4.gz mysql.log.6.gz
2004 2011-03-23 13:04:04 <genjix> error.log-old mysql.log.1.gz mysql.log.3.gz mysql.log.5.gz mysql.log.7.gz
2005 2011-03-23 13:04:08 <TD> i don't really care about more than X hundred megs of bitcoin activity
2006 2011-03-23 13:04:12 <genjix> k
2007 2011-03-23 13:04:19 <ArtForz> yes, thats what logrotate with a rather simple config does
2008 2011-03-23 13:04:31 <TD> ok, i'll read up on it
2009 2011-03-23 13:04:37 <eltigre> I mean, who stops bitcoin users being used esentially as a money mule?
2010 2011-03-23 13:04:52 <TD> eltigre: bitcoin is very similar to cash w.r.t money laundering
2011 2011-03-23 13:05:02 <genjix> TD: oh you wrote BitcoinJ?
2012 2011-03-23 13:05:06 <genjix> good job.
2013 2011-03-23 13:05:32 <xelister> eltigre: who stops john doe from laundering money by buying and then selling lots of prepayed cards. Or lots of potatoes
2014 2011-03-23 13:05:32 <genjix> :] ... but why you didn't use python? I thought google uses python everywhere
2015 2011-03-23 13:05:51 <jrabbit> Google uses Java, C++, and Python iirc
2016 2011-03-23 13:05:56 <spaetz> well, if you want to use it on, say, Android....
2017 2011-03-23 13:05:57 <eltigre> I'd hoped for a python client too
2018 2011-03-23 13:06:15 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/r7YPHtWw
2019 2011-03-23 13:06:16 <genjix> phantomcircuit has a partial python implemention
2020 2011-03-23 13:06:38 <ArtForz> logrotate.conf starts at line 4
2021 2011-03-23 13:06:56 <eltigre> what about somebody generating like 10 different wallets on pawned computers, and then transferring the mony through the chain?
2022 2011-03-23 13:07:15 <ArtForz> whats the point? just use a bunch of wallets on the same computer
2023 2011-03-23 13:07:16 <eltigre> could such a transaction be monitored?
2024 2011-03-23 13:07:34 <TD> ArtForz: thanks!
2025 2011-03-23 13:10:24 Teppy has joined
2026 2011-03-23 13:10:30 <spaetz> there's pycoin on gitorious.
2027 2011-03-23 13:10:37 <spaetz> not sure how advanced that is though
2028 2011-03-23 13:11:35 <eltigre> ok, so it doesn't make any difference where the wallets are. Still, could law enforcement monitor the flow?
2029 2011-03-23 13:12:05 <ArtForz> sure
2030 2011-03-23 13:12:47 <eltigre> that's good
2031 2011-03-23 13:12:52 <ArtForz> still easy enough to bypass
2032 2011-03-23 13:13:10 <xelister> eltigre: how is that good
2033 2011-03-23 13:13:22 <ArtForz> same way you do it real-world, run shit through as many places as possible, hoping they can't subpoena *all* of em
2034 2011-03-23 13:13:29 <xelister> eltigre: please lock yourself up in prison, why not? unless you want to hurt children.
2035 2011-03-23 13:13:30 <eltigre> well, I just don't want someone knocking at my door one day saying I was a money mule
2036 2011-03-23 13:13:57 <ArtForz> errr... how would that work?
2037 2011-03-23 13:14:16 <xelister> eltigre: so you say that your king should opress you more, just to be sure you will not be opressed?
2038 2011-03-23 13:14:26 <ArtForz> yes
2039 2011-03-23 13:14:35 <xelister> brb
2040 2011-03-23 13:14:51 <ArtForz> freedom is slavery
2041 2011-03-23 13:15:24 <eltigre> well, the problem is with taking on the responsibilities banks usually have
2042 2011-03-23 13:15:24 <genjix> war is peace
2043 2011-03-23 13:15:37 <eltigre> I don't assume to understand it fully
2044 2011-03-23 13:16:14 <ArtForz> cmon guys, we're still missing ignorance is strength... anyone?
2045 2011-03-23 13:16:25 <eltigre> but it would be troublesome if you accept bitcoin and later there is trouble about where that "money" came from
2046 2011-03-23 13:17:02 <genjix> i think it would be exciting and edgy when they try to come after me.
2047 2011-03-23 13:17:04 <eltigre> don't confuse criticism with intelligence...
2048 2011-03-23 13:17:19 <xelister> war in lybia is peace
2049 2011-03-23 13:17:21 <xelister> for the children
2050 2011-03-23 13:17:29 BlueMatt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2051 2011-03-23 13:18:10 <xelister> not for the children killed in thousands and milions in other parts of Affrica and Asia
2052 2011-03-23 13:19:17 <da2ce7> we need to at least add a warning to the bitcoin.org website saying "Generating bitcons with the official bitcoin client is extremely slow; try using a GPU client connected to a mining pool"
2053 2011-03-23 13:19:19 <eltigre> you can't bomb people into democracy, that only works if the people want democracy in the first place, which was the case in Gemany after world war II and is more true of lybia than of iraq
2054 2011-03-23 13:19:29 <xelister> 3 BTC for anyone to explain logically why this is moral and good (in standard understanding) to NOT help guys there, while usa-nato are hmm helping, people in Lybia
2055 2011-03-23 13:19:43 <xelister> ok, I cancel this bounty actually
2056 2011-03-23 13:19:55 <xelister> someone already mentioned there is a clearly defined 'enemy'....
2057 2011-03-23 13:19:59 <xelister> and they asked for help?
2058 2011-03-23 13:21:08 <xelister> What if USA people jailed 1) wrongly 2) for smoking a bit of pot 3) for torrenting some music shite 4) for clicking on link in spam-email sent by FBI saying its jailbaits photos would ask Russia or other external force to overthrown Obama and allow them to form more free country
2059 2011-03-23 13:21:21 <eltigre> I think the lybia conflict is as clear as it gets. I don't believe everything the rebels say, but I think it can be taken as granted that there were air attacks by gaddafi on demonstrators, and gaddafi's "Information policy" only makes it worse
2060 2011-03-23 13:21:43 <xelister> what in above examples then
2061 2011-03-23 13:22:02 <eltigre> then you are one poor fucker out of a few million
2062 2011-03-23 13:22:17 <eltigre> wheras in lybia Gaddafi is one rich fucker out of a few million poor
2063 2011-03-23 13:23:36 <xelister> eltigre: there are most slav.. erm.. prisioner in USA
2064 2011-03-23 13:23:49 <xelister> USA have most percentage of jailed people anywhere in civilized 1st world, right?
2065 2011-03-23 13:23:59 <bonsaikitten> yes
2066 2011-03-23 13:24:10 <bonsaikitten> and largest absolute number
2067 2011-03-23 13:24:13 <eltigre> yes, but you also have a lot more murderers
2068 2011-03-23 13:24:15 <noagendamarket> thats because they make cities money
2069 2011-03-23 13:24:20 <xelister> As of June 2009[update], 2,297,400 were incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails.
2070 2011-03-23 13:24:24 <xelister> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg
2071 2011-03-23 13:24:33 <noagendamarket> the cities sell the beds as futures
2072 2011-03-23 13:24:36 <xelister> lol it looks almost as the diff graph :P
2073 2011-03-23 13:24:37 <bonsaikitten> eltigre: and that's in no way related to the availability of guns ;)
2074 2011-03-23 13:24:49 <xelister> eltigre: no, usa has more murders
2075 2011-03-23 13:24:51 <genjix> im not sure it is.
2076 2011-03-23 13:24:53 <eltigre> yes, forgot that also
2077 2011-03-23 13:24:57 <xelister> eltigre: you cluseless americunt get a clue
2078 2011-03-23 13:25:00 * xelister losses patience
2079 2011-03-23 13:25:02 <noagendamarket> hmm what happened in 1980 ?
2080 2011-03-23 13:25:07 <genjix> americunt :D
2081 2011-03-23 13:25:11 <xelister> USA: most crimes
2082 2011-03-23 13:25:12 <noagendamarket> lawl
2083 2011-03-23 13:25:15 <xelister> most people in prisons still
2084 2011-03-23 13:25:19 <genjix> xelister: visit /b/ much
2085 2011-03-23 13:25:22 <xelister> most people arrested for jails
2086 2011-03-23 13:25:24 <eltigre> I heard some time they called it gandhian civil disobedience when some rednecks refused to register and keep their "assault rifles"
2087 2011-03-23 13:25:26 <xelister> and STILL most drug addicts
2088 2011-03-23 13:25:37 <xelister> clear?
2089 2011-03-23 13:25:58 <xelister> ok I have to go.. someone enlighten him =)
2090 2011-03-23 13:26:00 * xelister *poof*
2091 2011-03-23 13:26:01 <JFK911> usa has more murders because more people here deserve it
2092 2011-03-23 13:26:12 <Zenergy> and our public schooling
2093 2011-03-23 13:26:15 <JFK911> you open the borders for the third world and see what happens in YOUR country
2094 2011-03-23 13:26:21 <eltigre> you should watch the PACS 164A course on youtube
2095 2011-03-23 13:26:27 <JFK911> oh yeah, public schools, thanks reagan!
2096 2011-03-23 13:26:33 <genjix> living standards go up?
2097 2011-03-23 13:26:40 <luke-jr> schools are for idiots
2098 2011-03-23 13:26:49 <genjix> that's a bit harsh
2099 2011-03-23 13:27:00 <eltigre> khanacademy is the future
2100 2011-03-23 13:27:10 <genjix> not quite
2101 2011-03-23 13:27:17 <noagendamarket> JFK911 lol
2102 2011-03-23 13:27:38 <bonsaikitten> xelister: "drug addicts" - doctors are prescribing those, so it's tricky
2103 2011-03-23 13:27:51 <genjix> not every scienctist has the luxury of abundance
2104 2011-03-23 13:28:10 <bonsaikitten> JFK911: public schools are a good idea. Badly mismanaged public schools aren't
2105 2011-03-23 13:28:11 <eltigre> well, the US have a bad system to deal with crime and they have to deal with a lot more of it
2106 2011-03-23 13:28:22 <genjix> so the tools are rationed to people who've demonstrated their willingness
2107 2011-03-23 13:28:37 <JFK911> bonsaikitten: when I went to school during the 80's, it was NOT a requirement that teachers had any university education
2108 2011-03-23 13:28:41 <genjix> anyway wtf has this got to do with bitcoin?
2109 2011-03-23 13:28:42 <eltigre> and don't tell me most prisoners did not at least steal or hurt someone badly
2110 2011-03-23 13:28:45 <genjix> or...
2111 2011-03-23 13:28:49 <genjix> #bitcoin-DEV
2112 2011-03-23 13:29:00 <JFK911> eltigre: weed smokers?
2113 2011-03-23 13:29:03 <genjix> why not go to #bitcoin-discussion ?
2114 2011-03-23 13:29:03 <luke-jr> genjix++
2115 2011-03-23 13:29:16 <EvanR-work> or bitcoin-offtopic
2116 2011-03-23 13:29:17 <luke-jr> I actually have a bitcoin-dev-related topic I'd like to discuss
2117 2011-03-23 13:29:42 <genjix> yeah stop spamming the channel plz... we have questions and they get scrolled off the buffer.
2118 2011-03-23 13:29:46 <luke-jr> was if we defined a unit that was 57,600 Satoshis?
2119 2011-03-23 13:30:00 <eltigre> is there a good bitcoin miner for a gpu?
2120 2011-03-23 13:30:17 <luke-jr> this size works equally for decimal, tonal, dozenal, and octal.
2121 2011-03-23 13:30:36 <Blitzboom> luke-jr: no
2122 2011-03-23 13:30:39 <genjix> luke-jr: i think people are using it already as convenient shorthand.
2123 2011-03-23 13:30:51 <luke-jr> it can be divided up to 1/256, 1/100, or 1/144
2124 2011-03-23 13:30:52 <genjix> 0.0000 0001
2125 2011-03-23 13:31:08 <genjix> or 1 in int64 format
2126 2011-03-23 13:31:12 <luke-jr> this also means exact 1/9ths
2127 2011-03-23 13:31:24 <EvanR-work> ._.
2128 2011-03-23 13:31:26 <bonsaikitten> JFK911: that also makes little sense to require
2129 2011-03-23 13:31:27 <luke-jr> even though decimal, tonal, and octal cannot represent 1/9 exactly
2130 2011-03-23 13:31:41 <EvanR-work> luke-jr's proposals always sound like utf-9 and IP over avian carrier
2131 2011-03-23 13:32:01 <ArtForz> lol
2132 2011-03-23 13:32:01 <eltigre> da2ce7, you mentioned GPU mining, do you have a good client for that?
2133 2011-03-23 13:32:03 <luke-jr> it also means there are 36 billion of them
2134 2011-03-23 13:32:16 <Blitzboom> he sounds like an esoteric
2135 2011-03-23 13:32:26 <EvanR-work> eccentric maybe
2136 2011-03-23 13:32:27 <da2ce7> just link to the python client forum thread.
2137 2011-03-23 13:32:31 <EvanR-work> but were all that
2138 2011-03-23 13:32:32 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: you don't see the utility of 1/3?
2139 2011-03-23 13:32:34 <genjix> why does bitcoin pad the extra bits anyway?
2140 2011-03-23 13:32:35 <luke-jr> or 1/2?
2141 2011-03-23 13:32:42 <genjix> is there a crypto reason for that?
2142 2011-03-23 13:32:49 <da2ce7> but the main thing it to warn new people.
2143 2011-03-23 13:32:51 <Blitzboom> why yonât you see that itâs hard enough already to convince people to use a different currency?
2144 2011-03-23 13:33:16 <eltigre> da2ce7, warn about what?
2145 2011-03-23 13:33:16 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: these are *reasons to use it* :P
2146 2011-03-23 13:33:31 <Blitzboom> yeah, but people already have trouble understanding that
2147 2011-03-23 13:33:46 <ArtForz> well, there are also reasons to write numbers little-endian, yet nobody does it
2148 2011-03-23 13:33:48 <genjix> where can i find satoshi's email?
2149 2011-03-23 13:33:55 <eltigre> well bitcoin won't get mainstream soon
2150 2011-03-23 13:33:55 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: average idiot never sees the 57,600 number
2151 2011-03-23 13:33:56 <genjix> i want to know why he chose int64
2152 2011-03-23 13:34:01 <eltigre> that's another good reason to start now
2153 2011-03-23 13:34:02 <da2ce7> or even, say "It takes an average computer on average 2000 Days to generate a bitcoin block using the offical client for mining"
2154 2011-03-23 13:34:18 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: they just know they can divide it up to 2 decimal points, with exceptions for useful values
2155 2011-03-23 13:34:24 <luke-jr> genjix: because int32 is too small
2156 2011-03-23 13:34:33 <genjix> why not int128
2157 2011-03-23 13:34:41 <luke-jr> because most CPUs can't do int128
2158 2011-03-23 13:34:44 slush has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2159 2011-03-23 13:34:53 <genjix> sure they can
2160 2011-03-23 13:34:59 <genjix> just ignore the second int
2161 2011-03-23 13:35:05 <luke-jr> â¦
2162 2011-03-23 13:35:05 <genjix> unless it's non-0
2163 2011-03-23 13:35:21 <da2ce7> luke-jr they can, use bigint
2164 2011-03-23 13:35:28 <luke-jr> da2ce7: bigint isn't CPU
2165 2011-03-23 13:35:51 <da2ce7> what? it runs on a cup, just takes more than 1 cycle.
2166 2011-03-23 13:35:58 <genjix> or bitcoin could use variable length ints :p char (byte size) + int
2167 2011-03-23 13:36:29 <genjix> anyone know where his email can be found?
2168 2011-03-23 13:37:00 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: i use 1/2 and 1/3 in music, but some would complain that 1/5 and 1/7 are conspicuously missing
2169 2011-03-23 13:37:07 <ArtForz> "runs on a cup"... lol
2170 2011-03-23 13:37:09 <EvanR-work> if i didnt support those
2171 2011-03-23 13:37:27 <EvanR-work> two gpus one cup
2172 2011-03-23 13:38:11 <eltigre> Without having read enough about bitcoin I still have the feeling that bitcoin is great for criminals
2173 2011-03-23 13:38:30 <luke-jr> genjix: CPUs don't do varints either
2174 2011-03-23 13:38:38 <pierre`> eltigre: internet too
2175 2011-03-23 13:38:50 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: 57,600 can be divided by 5 twice
2176 2011-03-23 13:38:57 <EvanR-work> eltigre: lack of enforcement is good for criminals, so some ideologs would suggest that the community stay vigilant
2177 2011-03-23 13:38:58 <luke-jr> who actually uses 1/7?
2178 2011-03-23 13:39:09 <luke-jr> it's not rational in ANY forementioned base
2179 2011-03-23 13:39:18 <EvanR-work> luke-jr: theres a guy in #lad who is as insane as you when it comes to music
2180 2011-03-23 13:39:23 <ArtForz> same guys who use 1/13 I think
2181 2011-03-23 13:39:30 <EvanR-work> 1/7 is rational in all bases
2182 2011-03-23 13:39:33 <eltigre> well yes, I don' t mean bitcoin should be outlawed (which might happen)
2183 2011-03-23 13:39:43 <luke-jr> wrong word
2184 2011-03-23 13:39:48 <luke-jr> maybe
2185 2011-03-23 13:39:58 <EvanR-work> its wrong, but shows that you dont know what you want
2186 2011-03-23 13:40:03 <noagendamarket> bitcoin running on two girls one cup since 2000
2187 2011-03-23 13:40:12 <noagendamarket> :)
2188 2011-03-23 13:40:25 <eltigre> it's just if at some point in time government sees like hm ten million legitimate bitcoin users, 1 million criminals. Just shut it down....
2189 2011-03-23 13:40:34 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: it shows nothing
2190 2011-03-23 13:40:38 <noagendamarket> someone called it shitcoin today lol
2191 2011-03-23 13:40:42 <EvanR-work> bases are a way to write down numbers, rational/irrational is a property of the nubmer itself, not the writing system
2192 2011-03-23 13:40:49 <ArtForz> so... like govt shut down p2p filesharing?
2193 2011-03-23 13:40:58 <noagendamarket> yea
2194 2011-03-23 13:41:08 <ArtForz> yeah, I hope that happens to bitcoin
2195 2011-03-23 13:41:38 <eltigre> ArtForz, what would happen to the bitcoin value if suddenly all traders and shops stop offering/accepting bitcoins because they can't hide from law enforcement?
2196 2011-03-23 13:41:50 <jrabbit> eltigre: it'd go up
2197 2011-03-23 13:41:56 <eltigre> why?
2198 2011-03-23 13:41:58 <jrabbit> drug market man.
2199 2011-03-23 13:42:00 <ArtForz> all traders and shops? like? the world govt suddenly outlaws bitcoin?
2200 2011-03-23 13:42:04 <eltigre> you can't do anything with it anymore?
2201 2011-03-23 13:42:09 <ArtForz> sure can
2202 2011-03-23 13:42:10 <jrabbit> drug market
2203 2011-03-23 13:42:10 <noagendamarket> world gov lol
2204 2011-03-23 13:42:16 <EvanR-work> new world order
2205 2011-03-23 13:42:28 <noagendamarket> the local council cant even do shit
2206 2011-03-23 13:42:28 <EvanR-work> if anything, they would be USING bitcoin, rather than outlawing it
2207 2011-03-23 13:42:37 <eltigre> well, US and europe parliament could probably shut down at least half the official traders
2208 2011-03-23 13:42:40 <noagendamarket> why would world gov be any better
2209 2011-03-23 13:42:51 <EvanR-work> eltigre: the official traders?
2210 2011-03-23 13:42:57 <noagendamarket> who are they ?
2211 2011-03-23 13:43:03 genjix has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2212 2011-03-23 13:43:08 <JFK911> bitcoin seems to fit into the dictatorship of the proletariat doesn't it
2213 2011-03-23 13:43:10 <eltigre> those who have to file tax papers
2214 2011-03-23 13:43:18 <JFK911> bitcoins of all countries, unite!
2215 2011-03-23 13:43:19 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2216 2011-03-23 13:43:47 <JFK911> bitkoini vsyo strana, soydenits!
2217 2011-03-23 13:43:48 <noagendamarket> I filed my fax papers
2218 2011-03-23 13:43:54 <EvanR-work> eltigre: if you are worried about this, i suggest not hosting anything in either continent
2219 2011-03-23 13:44:09 <eltigre> if bitcoin becomes a crucial part of criminal economy before becoming a crucial part of civil economy I would even be in favor of outlawing it
2220 2011-03-23 13:44:31 <EvanR-work> in soviet russia bitcoin outlaws you
2221 2011-03-23 13:44:34 <ArtForz> lol
2222 2011-03-23 13:44:39 <eltigre> EvanR-work, I would suggest against hosting your wallet OUTSIDE of either continent
2223 2011-03-23 13:44:47 <jrabbit> you realizevmroe peopel would find otu about it if it was outlawed?
2224 2011-03-23 13:44:48 <noagendamarket> the government would def use it then
2225 2011-03-23 13:44:52 <EvanR-work> eltigre: hosting my wallet? lol
2226 2011-03-23 13:44:54 <noagendamarket> :)
2227 2011-03-23 13:45:24 larsivi has joined
2228 2011-03-23 13:45:32 <EvanR-work> uploading your wallet to anywhere is a bad idea
2229 2011-03-23 13:45:33 <eltigre> don't get me wrong, I think bitcoin is exciting
2230 2011-03-23 13:45:36 <EvanR-work> unencrypted
2231 2011-03-23 13:45:45 <noagendamarket> the streisand effect ftw
2232 2011-03-23 13:45:45 <noagendamarket> how much has been donated to the EFF so far ?
2233 2011-03-23 13:45:46 <noagendamarket> I bet they would have something to say about it
2234 2011-03-23 13:45:47 <noagendamarket> :)
2235 2011-03-23 13:45:51 <eltigre> how do you do ecommerce then?
2236 2011-03-23 13:45:52 <ArtForz> "people can do bad shit with it, let's outlaw it"
2237 2011-03-23 13:45:55 <xelister> eltigre: guns are cruciall part of criminal operation
2238 2011-03-23 13:46:03 <ArtForz> checks... nope, freenet is still legal
2239 2011-03-23 13:46:04 <noagendamarket> tldr prepare for lawyer ass reaming
2240 2011-03-23 13:46:09 <EvanR-work> eltigre: bitcoin runs on your computer
2241 2011-03-23 13:46:29 <xelister> eltigre: knifes are cruciall part of criminal operation, lets outlaw them. Already true in UK -> Pollock jailed 4 years for carrying a knife with his bread to work.
2242 2011-03-23 13:46:30 slush has joined
2243 2011-03-23 13:46:30 <EvanR-work> cash is a crucial part of criminal operation
2244 2011-03-23 13:46:32 <eltigre> I don't want a web shop to run off my desktop
2245 2011-03-23 13:46:44 * noagendamarket works for cash only
2246 2011-03-23 13:46:50 <eltigre> Knifes and guns are a crucial part of civil economy
2247 2011-03-23 13:46:54 <EvanR-work> eltigre: your money is stored in the block chain, its 'hosted' everywhere
2248 2011-03-23 13:47:01 <eltigre> bitcoin isn't one yet
2249 2011-03-23 13:47:04 genjix has joined
2250 2011-03-23 13:47:04 genjix has quit (Changing host)
2251 2011-03-23 13:47:04 genjix has joined
2252 2011-03-23 13:47:10 <xelister> eltigre: but some idiots thought as you do and outlaw them
2253 2011-03-23 13:47:18 <eltigre> EvanR-work, ok, then your encryption keys etc
2254 2011-03-23 13:47:45 <EvanR-work> thats just to access it
2255 2011-03-23 13:47:47 * ArtForz works for hookers and blow only
2256 2011-03-23 13:47:57 <EvanR-work> you can send money to anywhere without having the access keys
2257 2011-03-23 13:48:14 <eltigre> can anybody send my money without having the access keys?
2258 2011-03-23 13:48:21 <EvanR-work> no
2259 2011-03-23 13:48:24 <Zenergy> no
2260 2011-03-23 13:48:28 <luke-jr> â¦
2261 2011-03-23 13:48:34 <noagendamarket> hrm no
2262 2011-03-23 13:48:52 <eltigre> then there is some kind of encryption key that I need to have on my computer
2263 2011-03-23 13:49:05 <EvanR-work> yes, best place for it, assuming you have door locks
2264 2011-03-23 13:49:06 <ArtForz> no, only if you want to send them
2265 2011-03-23 13:49:23 <eltigre> ok, so a webserver with a webshop would not need them
2266 2011-03-23 13:49:24 <ArtForz> nothing stops you from putting a wallet on a usb stick and hiding it
2267 2011-03-23 13:49:47 <noagendamarket> you can trade without webshops at all on otc
2268 2011-03-23 13:50:08 <noagendamarket> ;sell 1 apple @ 5btc
2269 2011-03-23 13:50:10 <noagendamarket> lol
2270 2011-03-23 13:50:35 <noagendamarket> (apople fanboys only)
2271 2011-03-23 13:50:40 <eltigre> last time I checked that would mean 1 apple for at least 2.50 Â
2272 2011-03-23 13:50:46 <eltigre> I have seen cheaper apples
2273 2011-03-23 13:50:56 <noagendamarket> well you could buy a bag
2274 2011-03-23 13:51:02 <noagendamarket> for that
2275 2011-03-23 13:51:30 <noagendamarket> I was just showing you how to setup a bitcoin webshop
2276 2011-03-23 13:51:35 <eltigre> well I think the real value of bitcoins will come from webshops accepting it
2277 2011-03-23 13:51:41 iandees_ has joined
2278 2011-03-23 13:51:46 <EvanR-work> yep
2279 2011-03-23 13:51:51 <eltigre> but setting a price for items is a nightmare
2280 2011-03-23 13:51:51 * EvanR-work nonimates eltigre to get on that
2281 2011-03-23 13:52:02 <ArtForz> no, you see, that apple was harvested at noght and only transported in perfect darkness to preserve the unique texture of the skin colors </audiophile salesman>
2282 2011-03-23 13:52:02 <EvanR-work> also nominates
2283 2011-03-23 13:52:13 <EvanR-work> its a gold plated apple
2284 2011-03-23 13:52:17 <noagendamarket> the apple is a golden one
2285 2011-03-23 13:52:33 <noagendamarket> my goose crapped it out
2286 2011-03-23 13:52:44 <iandees_> ping Diablo-D3 ... getting an error message with your miner. It looks like an unparsed byte[] is coming back and causing a segfault
2287 2011-03-23 13:52:46 <ArtForz> hehehe
2288 2011-03-23 13:53:02 <noagendamarket> you can search otc by label
2289 2011-03-23 13:53:06 <EvanR-work> eltigre: thats the thing, people currently seem to be pegging their prices to the dollar. so youre effectively selling it for dollars not BTC
2290 2011-03-23 13:53:16 <EvanR-work> it could be simplified for a real shop
2291 2011-03-23 13:53:30 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: give entire traceback
2292 2011-03-23 13:54:04 <iandees_> Diablo-D3: http://pastebin.com/G6B3VbDz
2293 2011-03-23 13:54:07 <xelister> Diablo-D3: btw whatsup with spurse interrupt something Debug: warning... just ignore it?
2294 2011-03-23 13:54:22 <xelister> spurse kernel argumnet... smth like that
2295 2011-03-23 13:54:26 <Diablo-D3> xelister: are you drunk?
2296 2011-03-23 13:54:48 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: hrm, shouldnt do that
2297 2011-03-23 13:54:48 <xelister> ah, "spurious" !
2298 2011-03-23 13:54:55 <ArtForz> lol
2299 2011-03-23 13:54:59 <noagendamarket> lol
2300 2011-03-23 13:55:02 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yeah, just ignore it
2301 2011-03-23 13:55:04 <xelister> spurious kernel argument :> So, can this be safelly ignored, what this means in your miner, Diablo-D3 =)
2302 2011-03-23 13:55:05 <xelister> ok
2303 2011-03-23 13:55:07 <iandees_> :) i'm running bitcoin -daemon
2304 2011-03-23 13:55:15 <EvanR-work> srs krnl pnic
2305 2011-03-23 13:55:17 <Diablo-D3> xelister: its indicative of a driver bug
2306 2011-03-23 13:55:43 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: you're using newest?
2307 2011-03-23 13:55:51 <iandees_> http://pastebin.com/u3L264ET
2308 2011-03-23 13:56:12 <iandees_> yep. just downloaded bitcoin 15 minutes ago
2309 2011-03-23 13:56:19 <ArtForz> you're still missing blocks
2310 2011-03-23 13:56:20 <Diablo-D3> I meant of my miner
2311 2011-03-23 13:56:27 <ArtForz> ;;bc,blocks
2312 2011-03-23 13:56:28 <gribble> 114686
2313 2011-03-23 13:56:31 <Diablo-D3> hrm, I wonder if I can reproduce this bug
2314 2011-03-23 13:56:44 <iandees_> ah yes.. i can check again but i clicked the link in your thread.
2315 2011-03-23 13:57:17 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: I havent updated it for a few days
2316 2011-03-23 13:57:20 <Diablo-D3> so its newest
2317 2011-03-23 13:57:22 <iandees_> http://adterrasperaspera.com/images/DiabloMiner.zip this guy?
2318 2011-03-23 13:57:30 <Diablo-D3> yeah
2319 2011-03-23 13:57:41 <Diablo-D3> erg, Im retarded
2320 2011-03-23 13:57:48 <Diablo-D3> byte[] error = new byte[8192];
2321 2011-03-23 13:57:52 <Diablo-D3> e2 = new IOException("Bitcoin returned error message: " + error);
2322 2011-03-23 13:57:56 <Diablo-D3> durfahurfahurf
2323 2011-03-23 13:58:01 * ArtForz hands diablo dunce cap
2324 2011-03-23 13:58:05 <iandees_> :)
2325 2011-03-23 13:58:29 <Diablo-D3> that should be responseMessage.get("error).getValueAsText().trim()
2326 2011-03-23 13:59:31 <iandees_> should i grab the code and compile locally?
2327 2011-03-23 13:59:35 <Diablo-D3> no
2328 2011-03-23 13:59:39 <Diablo-D3> Ill push a new one in a moment
2329 2011-03-23 13:59:39 <iandees_> k
2330 2011-03-23 14:01:00 <eltigre> EvanR-work, I don't get that about pegging against dollars
2331 2011-03-23 14:01:15 <eltigre> do people believe one coin should be one dollar?
2332 2011-03-23 14:01:23 <EvanR-work> eltigre: i dont mean peg
2333 2011-03-23 14:01:26 <eltigre> even if it doesn't
2334 2011-03-23 14:01:38 <EvanR-work> i mean, the price is real time updated as some multiple of the usd price on mtgox
2335 2011-03-23 14:01:49 <CIA-96> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8de0e88 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix pom.xml up a little, increase error log buffer size - http://bit.ly/ehOfHU
2336 2011-03-23 14:01:50 <CIA-96> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r180d420 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Fix the error reporting. Again. - http://bit.ly/fTSKL9
2337 2011-03-23 14:02:00 <eltigre> EvanR-work, ah yes, now I get you
2338 2011-03-23 14:02:24 <eltigre> I still wouldn't want to bear the risk involved in bitcoin making a sudden rise and plunge
2339 2011-03-23 14:02:33 <eltigre> so I would probably have some delay
2340 2011-03-23 14:02:45 <iandees_> perhaps this isn't the right channel to ask such a noob question... but why is the client pegging my CPU and grabbing 100K/sec of net traffic every 10 seconds or so?
2341 2011-03-23 14:02:55 <iandees_> generation is turned off
2342 2011-03-23 14:02:55 <EvanR-work> if you have to immediately sell BTC for usd to pay for stuff, this is the only way, but it would be better if you have some buffer account and only sell when its advantageous, and options can help this
2343 2011-03-23 14:03:06 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: its still downloading blocks.
2344 2011-03-23 14:03:24 <EvanR-work> eltigre: right, wait or buy an option
2345 2011-03-23 14:03:39 <eltigre> sounds reasonable
2346 2011-03-23 14:03:39 <iandees_> k. i thought so but i hadn't noticed an increase in the blocks count on the client. will wait longer.
2347 2011-03-23 14:04:13 <nevezen> thought I'd test bitcoinpool's modified m0mchil client today..
2348 2011-03-23 14:04:44 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: new miner uploaded
2349 2011-03-23 14:05:09 <eltigre> I'm trying out poclmb now
2350 2011-03-23 14:05:10 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: although, that segfault is unrelated to the problem I think
2351 2011-03-23 14:05:13 <nevezen> it seems bitcoinpool's client gives me a hashrate of 15M, compared to 22-25M I usually get with an older version
2352 2011-03-23 14:05:18 <EvanR-work> eltigre: lets say you sell items for usd and btc, you have a relatively fixed usd price and a fixed BTC price. now as btc usd price moves around, customers are going to technically have a better deal using either currency, but unless they have both they arent gonig to go through the trouble of exchanging just to make this purchase, so its not a big deal, i think
2353 2011-03-23 14:05:23 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2354 2011-03-23 14:05:30 <iandees_> I'll check again with the newer version.
2355 2011-03-23 14:06:13 [Tycho] has joined
2356 2011-03-23 14:06:13 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: the segfault implies driver bug, btw
2357 2011-03-23 14:08:19 <eltigre> EvanR-work, you are probably right
2358 2011-03-23 14:09:18 <EvanR-work> the volatility seems to have decreased in the last weeks
2359 2011-03-23 14:09:39 <iandees_> Diablo-D3: yea, still getting the segfault. I'll try updating drivers as I imagine ubuntu 10.04's aren't exactly the newest
2360 2011-03-23 14:10:04 <iandees_> the error message from DiabloMiner went away, though
2361 2011-03-23 14:11:50 <Diablo-D3> did you get a different one?
2362 2011-03-23 14:12:10 <Diablo-D3> because it should have said what bitcoin was actually saying
2363 2011-03-23 14:12:12 <iandees_> nope. it goes from [3/23/11 9:08:03 AM] Added GeForce 9300 GE (#1) (1 CU, local work size of 64) to segfault
2364 2011-03-23 14:12:20 <Diablo-D3> also
2365 2011-03-23 14:12:23 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is VERY picky
2366 2011-03-23 14:12:45 <Diablo-D3> it didnt stop segfaulting or otherwise not working (ie, kernel compiler failures) until several months ago
2367 2011-03-23 14:13:09 <Diablo-D3> iandees_: also, remember to uninstall the debs for nvidia first
2368 2011-03-23 14:13:18 <Diablo-D3> dont install the binary driver over them
2369 2011-03-23 14:13:21 <iandees_> k
2370 2011-03-23 14:14:00 <Diablo-D3> dpkg -l | grep nvidia
2371 2011-03-23 14:14:03 <Diablo-D3> should list them all
2372 2011-03-23 14:14:09 <genjix> anyone remember the implicit case operator syntax in c++?
2373 2011-03-23 14:14:12 <eltigre> I mean there are basically shops on the wiki that don't sell legitimate goods at all ^ ^
2374 2011-03-23 14:14:13 <genjix> cast
2375 2011-03-23 14:14:31 <Diablo-D3> genjix: er? you mean in op overloading?
2376 2011-03-23 14:14:31 <eltigre> genjix, something about *
2377 2011-03-23 14:14:44 <xelister> genjix: cool_int y = (cool_int)x;
2378 2011-03-23 14:14:53 <Diablo-D3> because in C its just foo = (bar)quux
2379 2011-03-23 14:14:56 <genjix> yeah like that... but for a class
2380 2011-03-23 14:15:18 <genjix> no, i mean define a method which specifies a function when it needs to be implicitly cast
2381 2011-03-23 14:15:20 <eltigre> yes that was it ... man it's so long since I needed C++ for anything...
2382 2011-03-23 14:15:27 <Diablo-D3> I refuse to know C++
2383 2011-03-23 14:15:33 <genjix> your loss
2384 2011-03-23 14:15:44 <Diablo-D3> not at all
2385 2011-03-23 14:15:45 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2386 2011-03-23 14:15:50 <Diablo-D3> I can code C without any of that shit
2387 2011-03-23 14:16:03 <genjix> enjoy your mess :)
2388 2011-03-23 14:16:10 <xelister> C is like an stone axe, C++ is like a fucking pneumatic jackhammer with laser guiding
2389 2011-03-23 14:16:35 <xelister> sometimes stone axes is better but rarerly
2390 2011-03-23 14:16:46 <Diablo-D3> then Java is a megaton nuclear warhead.
2391 2011-03-23 14:16:57 <xelister> sort of
2392 2011-03-23 14:17:18 <genjix> operator BIO* () const;
2393 2011-03-23 14:17:24 <genjix> fyi
2394 2011-03-23 14:17:28 <xelister> it definatelly weights a megaton =)
2395 2011-03-23 14:17:34 <Diablo-D3> hurrrrrrrrrrrr
2396 2011-03-23 14:17:42 <eltigre> anybody know how to get "an opencl implementation" into an ubuntu system?
2397 2011-03-23 14:17:53 <[Tycho]> Oh, so much LOL @ FairUser today :)
2398 2011-03-23 14:18:25 <genjix> fuckin government here Angry
2399 2011-03-23 14:18:25 <genjix> Blocking nearly all encrypted traffic at the moment.
2400 2011-03-23 14:18:25 <genjix> Anything encrypted and not on simple https is getting blocked.
2401 2011-03-23 14:18:25 <genjix> Fuckers, can't ssh in, can't use my vpn.
2402 2011-03-23 14:18:25 <genjix> They've also blocked all irc traffic, at least to the popular servers, they're fucking around with gmail too.
2403 2011-03-23 14:18:29 <genjix> They're cracking down to prevent any online dissent from organising in real life like in the middle east.
2404 2011-03-23 14:18:32 <genjix> from a person in china
2405 2011-03-23 14:18:53 <genjix> anyone have any ideas?
2406 2011-03-23 14:18:59 <Zenergy> cruise missiles
2407 2011-03-23 14:19:09 <genjix> i might setup a custom irc gateway
2408 2011-03-23 14:19:10 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
2409 2011-03-23 14:19:10 [Tycho] has joined
2410 2011-03-23 14:19:11 <noagendamarket> lawl
2411 2011-03-23 14:19:23 <genjix> how does an irc gateway work?
2412 2011-03-23 14:19:28 <genjix> would it work?
2413 2011-03-23 14:19:34 <noagendamarket> ask necrodearia or nanotube
2414 2011-03-23 14:19:48 <eltigre> I don't think any chinese who is mildly interested in such things is not aware of the arabian situation
2415 2011-03-23 14:19:53 <noagendamarket> thats fucked up man
2416 2011-03-23 14:20:09 <xelister> genjix: ssh into 443 port vpn?
2417 2011-03-23 14:20:10 <kiba> genjix: where you are, anyway?
2418 2011-03-23 14:20:14 BlueMatt has joined
2419 2011-03-23 14:20:31 <xelister> is it fr or usa
2420 2011-03-23 14:20:39 <genjix> as they said... no ssh
2421 2011-03-23 14:20:51 <xelister> what country what isp
2422 2011-03-23 14:20:59 <genjix> china
2423 2011-03-23 14:21:13 <xelister> you are in china?
2424 2011-03-23 14:21:21 <genjix> no *they* are
2425 2011-03-23 14:21:26 <xelister> oh
2426 2011-03-23 14:21:44 klugez has joined
2427 2011-03-23 14:21:52 <eltigre> I think we shouldn't worry much about anti-democracy in China. The chinese will change their system when they are ready for it.
2428 2011-03-23 14:21:59 <dsg> xelister: It's not too hard to tell the difference between SSH an HTTPS using DPI like china is using. They've blocked tor that way before, after that tor put in lots of work to make it look like firefox on HTTPS.
2429 2011-03-23 14:22:12 <xelister> eltigre: what is with americans democracy is only true system
2430 2011-03-23 14:22:20 <xelister> *thinking
2431 2011-03-23 14:22:21 <jrabbit> LOL
2432 2011-03-23 14:22:39 <genjix> ok seems it's on slashdot too
2433 2011-03-23 14:22:40 <genjix> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/22/1745241/China-Starts-Censoring-Phone-Calls-Mid-Sentence
2434 2011-03-23 14:23:15 <JFK911> that's just a coincidence. china mobile bought AT&T's old equipment is what really happened.
2435 2011-03-23 14:23:21 <eltigre> it's more about freedom. if people generally don't rip each other off big time, you usually get something like democracy quickly
2436 2011-03-23 14:23:46 <noagendamarket> people dont hate each other when they can trade
2437 2011-03-23 14:23:47 <xelister> #bitcoin-dev: [Tuesday 22 March 2011] [22:30:31] <xelister> Hey Chao-Gong did you installed that application called Freene*CLICK*
2438 2011-03-23 14:23:58 * xelister like a boss
2439 2011-03-23 14:24:02 <JFK911> "chao-gong?"
2440 2011-03-23 14:24:09 <Zenergy> You know we probably shouldn't strive for democracy
2441 2011-03-23 14:24:13 <Zenergy> but republics are nice
2442 2011-03-23 14:24:16 <genjix> ok politics aside... how can i get this person online?
2443 2011-03-23 14:24:27 <jrabbit> Zenergy: fascist :P
2444 2011-03-23 14:24:27 <genjix> in irc
2445 2011-03-23 14:24:40 <Zenergy> jrabbit, how is that fascist
2446 2011-03-23 14:24:41 <Zenergy> -.-
2447 2011-03-23 14:24:43 <jrabbit> tor bridge.
2448 2011-03-23 14:24:46 <jrabbit> Zenergy: joke
2449 2011-03-23 14:24:48 <noagendamarket> china needs a mesh network
2450 2011-03-23 14:24:50 <eltigre> irc web clients?
2451 2011-03-23 14:24:51 <jrabbit> but seriosuly fuck you
2452 2011-03-23 14:24:54 <genjix> dudes this is very bad if bitcoin is to be taken seriously
2453 2011-03-23 14:25:02 <jrabbit> genjix: tor bridge.
2454 2011-03-23 14:25:05 <Zenergy> jrabbit, apology accepted.
2455 2011-03-23 14:25:09 <jrabbit> how come they can't get ssh?
2456 2011-03-23 14:25:11 <Zenergy> Problem?
2457 2011-03-23 14:25:12 grondilu has joined
2458 2011-03-23 14:25:17 <Zenergy> <--- hasn't slept in 24 hours
2459 2011-03-23 14:25:18 <xelister> genjix: :> #bitcoin-dev: [Tuesday 22 March 2011] [22:30:31] <xelister> Hey Chao-Gong did you installed that application called Freene*CLICK*
2460 2011-03-23 14:25:37 <grondilu> Is the forum server down or something?
2461 2011-03-23 14:25:40 <genjix> jrabbit: as i wrote above.. they cannot connect to any encrypted traffic.
2462 2011-03-23 14:25:43 <genjix> grondilu: jes
2463 2011-03-23 14:25:49 <jrabbit> genjix: really?
2464 2011-03-23 14:25:49 <eltigre> maybe there is some low-traffic "webchat over irc" server?
2465 2011-03-23 14:25:56 <genjix> jrabbit:
2466 2011-03-23 14:25:56 <jrabbit> they cut all encrypted streams?
2467 2011-03-23 14:25:57 <Zenergy> how exactly are they sniffing encrypted traffic?
2468 2011-03-23 14:26:03 <genjix> fuckin government here Angry
2469 2011-03-23 14:26:03 <genjix> Blocking nearly all encrypted traffic at the moment.
2470 2011-03-23 14:26:03 <genjix> Anything encrypted and not on simple https is getting blocked.
2471 2011-03-23 14:26:03 <genjix> Fuckers, can't ssh in, can't use my vpn.
2472 2011-03-23 14:26:03 <genjix> They've also blocked all irc traffic, at least to the popular servers, they're fucking around with gmail too.
2473 2011-03-23 14:26:06 <genjix> They're cracking down to prevent any online dissent from organising in real life like in the middle east.
2474 2011-03-23 14:26:07 <Zenergy> Or are they just blocking known secure ports
2475 2011-03-23 14:26:09 <eltigre> Zenergy, that should be easy
2476 2011-03-23 14:26:10 <Zenergy> like 22, etc
2477 2011-03-23 14:26:14 <jrabbit> ah
2478 2011-03-23 14:26:14 glassresistor has joined
2479 2011-03-23 14:26:15 <BlueMatt> webchat.freenode.net
2480 2011-03-23 14:26:21 <Zenergy> eltigre, hrm?
2481 2011-03-23 14:26:24 <jrabbit> genjix: set up a http/DNS server.
2482 2011-03-23 14:26:30 <genjix> yeah ill link that + mibbit
2483 2011-03-23 14:26:42 <eltigre> most binary formats have some kind of "signature"
2484 2011-03-23 14:26:53 <jrabbit> http://thomer.com/howtos/nstx.html
2485 2011-03-23 14:26:57 <genjix> well i think china is doing packet inspection
2486 2011-03-23 14:27:04 <genjix> so even web irc can be problematic
2487 2011-03-23 14:27:05 <grondilu> wasn't there a TOR mirror?
2488 2011-03-23 14:27:08 <eltigre> you can tell for example if traffic is an image, a video stream or whatever. Also the randomness is important
2489 2011-03-23 14:27:15 <jrabbit> http://thomer.com/icmptx/
2490 2011-03-23 14:27:17 <genjix> might have to use something like psyc
2491 2011-03-23 14:27:23 <genjix> psych
2492 2011-03-23 14:27:27 <genjix> or whatever it's called.
2493 2011-03-23 14:27:30 <jrabbit> genjix: try nstx
2494 2011-03-23 14:27:39 <BlueMatt> isn't there some us goby program to get around censorship?
2495 2011-03-23 14:27:40 <eltigre> I don't know the details, but I don't think it is difficult to tell if a packet is part of an image, a website or encrypted
2496 2011-03-23 14:27:43 <jrabbit> grondilu: Tor bridges is the name of that
2497 2011-03-23 14:27:46 <Zenergy> eltigre, yes but that's requires sniffing known major formats
2498 2011-03-23 14:27:51 <xelister> tor bridges are fuitilie
2499 2011-03-23 14:27:54 <xelister> there is just 1 solition
2500 2011-03-23 14:27:56 <jrabbit> grondilu: but China decided blocking entire IP ranges was preferable
2501 2011-03-23 14:27:59 <xelister> FREENET motherfuckers
2502 2011-03-23 14:28:01 <eltigre> you can block anything by default
2503 2011-03-23 14:28:11 <xelister> FREENET motherfuckers, over motherfucking stenography. nothing else can work,.
2504 2011-03-23 14:28:13 <Zenergy> If you just have a stream of encrypted data, wouldn't it be hard to tell if it's encrypted or just some prop. protocol between a few clients?
2505 2011-03-23 14:28:15 <jrabbit> xelister: They'll succeed in making CHian the worlds largest LAN
2506 2011-03-23 14:28:15 <eltigre> or be really proactive in sniffing new stuff
2507 2011-03-23 14:28:31 <Zenergy> Or is it pretty easy to figure that out?
2508 2011-03-23 14:28:36 <genjix> xelister: freenet is encrypted and not html
2509 2011-03-23 14:28:38 <genjix> http
2510 2011-03-23 14:28:41 <genjix> lawl
2511 2011-03-23 14:28:46 <xelister> genjix: uhm
2512 2011-03-23 14:28:55 <eltigre> I don't know the details, but I really don't think it's that difficult
2513 2011-03-23 14:28:58 <xelister> FREENET motherfuckers, over MOTHERFUCKING STENOGRAPHY \o/ \o/
2514 2011-03-23 14:29:13 <eltigre> it's more difficult to deal with people complaining about legitimate traffic being blocked
2515 2011-03-23 14:29:17 <xelister> proparly done stenography is not censorable
2516 2011-03-23 14:29:23 <jrabbit> genjix: try the icmptx and nstx things.
2517 2011-03-23 14:29:29 <genjix> ok
2518 2011-03-23 14:29:32 <Zenergy> xelister, my thoughts :D
2519 2011-03-23 14:29:43 <jrabbit> if nslookups and imcp can get through
2520 2011-03-23 14:29:44 <eltigre> the chinese really are two decades ahead of arabian states when it comes to "harmony technology"
2521 2011-03-23 14:29:49 <jrabbit> it's not encrypted
2522 2011-03-23 14:29:54 <jrabbit> but it'd be a good proxy
2523 2011-03-23 14:30:00 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
2524 2011-03-23 14:30:03 <eltigre> they also understand not to gun down protestors
2525 2011-03-23 14:30:12 <xelister> eltigre: lololol
2526 2011-03-23 14:30:25 <xelister> "chinese understand not to gun down protestors" ?
2527 2011-03-23 14:30:34 <jrabbit> Sell bullet back to family.
2528 2011-03-23 14:30:41 <jrabbit> *body
2529 2011-03-23 14:30:41 <genjix> jrabbit: maybe even use a custom dns server and put web traffic in that :D
2530 2011-03-23 14:30:55 <jrabbit> genjix: thats what nstx is!
2531 2011-03-23 14:30:58 <genjix> ohh
2532 2011-03-23 14:30:58 <jrabbit> http://thomer.com/howtos/nstx.html
2533 2011-03-23 14:31:04 <xelister> Tiananmen Square - here, in 1989... Nothing Happened.
2534 2011-03-23 14:31:08 <eltigre> xelister, don't mention tiananmen
2535 2011-03-23 14:31:22 <jrabbit> CLICK
2536 2011-03-23 14:31:22 <JFK911> who here's been there?
2537 2011-03-23 14:31:22 <eltigre> that was twenty years ago, they learned their lesson
2538 2011-03-23 14:31:28 <jrabbit> END TRANSMISSION.
2539 2011-03-23 14:31:30 <xelister> eltigre: lol
2540 2011-03-23 14:31:33 <xelister> eltigre: SERIOUSLY
2541 2011-03-23 14:31:42 <xelister> eltigre: is there LIMIT to your's LACK OF FUCKING CLUE
2542 2011-03-23 14:31:45 <xelister> about events around you
2543 2011-03-23 14:31:56 <jrabbit> JFK911: I'm afraid to travel to PRC and Germany and England
2544 2011-03-23 14:32:02 <JFK911> oh
2545 2011-03-23 14:32:12 <jrabbit> they're all very anti-crypto
2546 2011-03-23 14:32:13 <JFK911> i'm afraid to listen to what china's like from people who have never been there
2547 2011-03-23 14:32:21 <xelister> china has afair highest rate of dissapearing (education camp then kill) of any not obeying slaves, higher then russia
2548 2011-03-23 14:32:25 <BurtyB> eltigre there was no lesson to learn it was just a normal day no?
2549 2011-03-23 14:32:29 <eltigre> well, if gaddafi hadn't snipered civilians he would have been able to stay in power
2550 2011-03-23 14:32:36 <jrabbit> eltigre: indeed
2551 2011-03-23 14:32:44 <jrabbit> eltigre: I wasn't expectign him to lose power
2552 2011-03-23 14:33:07 <xelister> could Kadaffis snipers be falsflag op.... hmm but probablyt its too wide operation to be not true
2553 2011-03-23 14:33:09 <jrabbit> I mean he woudl be weakened, but now I think the people could succeed
2554 2011-03-23 14:33:24 <eltigre> of course tiananmen was wrong and terrible. The Chinese avoid these things like the plague since that time because they know that these incidents could escalate
2555 2011-03-23 14:33:33 <jrabbit> xelister: if it was outside the other arabian revolutions I'd have my doubts too but...
2556 2011-03-23 14:33:39 <xelister> jrabbit: what about milions dying in other places
2557 2011-03-23 14:33:41 <xelister> in wars
2558 2011-03-23 14:33:50 <xelister> USA/nato not so fast to deliver "help" there?
2559 2011-03-23 14:34:17 <JFK911> jrabbit: hm. i wouldn't go to africa.
2560 2011-03-23 14:34:26 <eltigre> in afghanistan and iraq they put in more violent energy into the system, making it more chaotic
2561 2011-03-23 14:34:27 <jrabbit> xelister: I'll quote anthoer anarchist here "I'd ratehr have the US support the rebels for the wrong reasons than to have more dead"
2562 2011-03-23 14:34:39 rli has joined
2563 2011-03-23 14:34:47 <jrabbit> JFK911: africa is safe if you're not poor.
2564 2011-03-23 14:34:56 <JFK911> "safe"
2565 2011-03-23 14:34:58 <xelister> jrabbit: are you in affrica?
2566 2011-03-23 14:34:59 <Zenergy> aids
2567 2011-03-23 14:35:02 <eltigre> in lybia there is a chance that the no fly zone will deescalate the war
2568 2011-03-23 14:35:07 <jrabbit> no
2569 2011-03-23 14:35:20 <jrabbit> But if you're rich you'd have no problems in that contient.
2570 2011-03-23 14:35:33 <JFK911> heh even the kings/presidents aren't safe
2571 2011-03-23 14:35:37 <genjix> i've been there and can confirm that
2572 2011-03-23 14:35:52 <genjix> the expatriots live in their own little compounds sheltered from the people
2573 2011-03-23 14:36:00 <JFK911> ha
2574 2011-03-23 14:36:03 <genjix> "ewww poor people"
2575 2011-03-23 14:36:03 <JFK911> that sounds grand
2576 2011-03-23 14:36:04 <jrabbit> mhm.
2577 2011-03-23 14:36:21 <Zenergy> You know the daily show put on a skit monday about how the US decides which countries to help and which it just wants to generically verbally support
2578 2011-03-23 14:36:29 <eltigre> ever since I watched the non-violence lectures on youtube I have been seeing these principles everywhere
2579 2011-03-23 14:36:30 <Zenergy> Pretty funny and accurate not sure if anyone else saw it too
2580 2011-03-23 14:36:32 <jrabbit> I'm not saying its not sad how it works but its not like a war zone outside you know the war zones.
2581 2011-03-23 14:36:43 <jrabbit> eltigre: lol nonviolence
2582 2011-03-23 14:37:00 <JFK911> at least in china you can get a normal upper class flat or hotel in the city if you go there
2583 2011-03-23 14:37:10 <jrabbit> I don't know of any nonviolent revolutions that succeeded without a violent vanguard
2584 2011-03-23 14:37:13 <JFK911> and not have to hire guns/armor
2585 2011-03-23 14:37:26 <eltigre> yes, gandhi and ML King used satyagraha, and whereever people try to resist with violence they make it easier for their enemy
2586 2011-03-23 14:37:28 <jrabbit> JFK911: sure but you can't have cryptography
2587 2011-03-23 14:37:29 <genjix> ?
2588 2011-03-23 14:37:32 <kiba> bitcoin forum down!
2589 2011-03-23 14:37:38 <jrabbit> JFK911: so you betetr agree with the government.
2590 2011-03-23 14:37:39 <genjix> i think you need to travel a bit
2591 2011-03-23 14:37:39 dwdollar has joined
2592 2011-03-23 14:37:48 <genjix> the whole world is mostly safe :p
2593 2011-03-23 14:37:51 <jrabbit> ^
2594 2011-03-23 14:38:01 <eltigre> jrabbit, India? Indians in South Africa? RosenbergstraÃe in Nazi Germany?
2595 2011-03-23 14:38:09 <genjix> no
2596 2011-03-23 14:38:12 <jrabbit> eltigre: India is proovable false
2597 2011-03-23 14:38:22 <vrs> gavinandresen: is bandwidth your problem?
2598 2011-03-23 14:38:31 <eltigre> the iranian revolution was basically nonviolent
2599 2011-03-23 14:38:35 <jrabbit> Ghandi is celebrated in india with 2-3 other revolutinoaries that used violence.
2600 2011-03-23 14:38:37 <genjix> bullshit!
2601 2011-03-23 14:38:46 <genjix> the iranian revolution was a BLOODBATH
2602 2011-03-23 14:38:49 <eltigre> at first at least, then they went bad quickly
2603 2011-03-23 14:39:04 <jrabbit> I'm unfamiliar with RosenbergstraÃe
2604 2011-03-23 14:39:32 <jrabbit> eltigre: I can't pull up anything on that.
2605 2011-03-23 14:39:33 <genjix> hah forums have been slashdotted!
2606 2011-03-23 14:39:34 <JFK911> jrabbit: i met some chinese who told me they think free speech is destructive, there are two sides to this
2607 2011-03-23 14:39:54 <eltigre> and in the west whenever you see protests with "civil disobedience" they wil overplay the "police violence"
2608 2011-03-23 14:40:00 <jrabbit> JFK911: sure if you think free speech is the devil china might be fine for you.
2609 2011-03-23 14:40:10 <JFK911> a lot of russians 30s and up dont want to talk about politics, and just accept the government and that they cannot change it
2610 2011-03-23 14:40:36 <Zenergy> Apathy is the way to go
2611 2011-03-23 14:40:37 <jrabbit> JFK911: well it did change but they got fucked harder when it did.
2612 2011-03-23 14:40:39 <JFK911> when in rome do as the romans do
2613 2011-03-23 14:40:41 <gavinandresen> vrs: I don't think it is bandwidth, I think the bitcoin.org homepage needs more aggressive caching.
2614 2011-03-23 14:40:42 <Zenergy> With apathy, nothing can hurt you.
2615 2011-03-23 14:40:44 <eltigre> there was an incident when jews with arian husbands/wifes were arrested, and their relatives went on to protest for days until they were released
2616 2011-03-23 14:40:55 <genjix> gavinandresen: or let MagicalTux host the site.
2617 2011-03-23 14:40:59 <JFK911> russia was total freedom (chaos)
2618 2011-03-23 14:41:04 <genjix> this isn't the first time this happened...
2619 2011-03-23 14:41:15 <eltigre> people argue all the time wether the protests were responsible or not, just as if gandhi was instrumental for Indian independence etc
2620 2011-03-23 14:41:22 BlueMatt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2621 2011-03-23 14:41:31 <jrabbit> gavinandresen: put it behind nginx or something similar?
2622 2011-03-23 14:41:36 <Zenergy> Look, we just need to fire more cruise missiles.
2623 2011-03-23 14:41:36 Zarutian has joined
2624 2011-03-23 14:41:40 <Zenergy> For freedom
2625 2011-03-23 14:41:42 <jrabbit> Zarutian: :P
2626 2011-03-23 14:41:42 <vrs> gavinandresen: ok, then i guess i won't be able to help with mirrors
2627 2011-03-23 14:41:50 <JFK911> i was able to use a vpn from china but that was some time ago
2628 2011-03-23 14:41:57 <gavinandresen> nah, just using the Drupal/Apache cache pages on disk and serve them up without touching php/database should work
2629 2011-03-23 14:42:02 <jrabbit> who manufactures those again
2630 2011-03-23 14:42:15 <jrabbit> Raytheon.
2631 2011-03-23 14:42:24 <genjix> gavinandresen: have you thought about making the front page an editable wiki perhaps?
2632 2011-03-23 14:42:37 <genjix> obviously I mean styled
2633 2011-03-23 14:42:41 <jrabbit> gavinandresen: but nginx! :P
2634 2011-03-23 14:42:42 <eltigre> probably if you use vpn from china, you are at least "noticed" by the chinese authorities. I think they choose not to molest foreigners more than absolutely neccessary
2635 2011-03-23 14:42:43 <kiba> gavinandresen: maybe we should move the bitcoin site to a bitcoin accepting host
2636 2011-03-23 14:42:48 <genjix> http://crystalspace3d.org/main/Main_Page
2637 2011-03-23 14:42:51 <genjix> gavinandresen: ^
2638 2011-03-23 14:42:54 <genjix> that's a wiki
2639 2011-03-23 14:43:06 <kiba> turtles all the way down!
2640 2011-03-23 14:43:08 <Zenergy> the U.S. should just drop guns with supply drops into china
2641 2011-03-23 14:43:11 <jrabbit> kiba: :D
2642 2011-03-23 14:43:12 <genjix> and then people can add news items and quickly make changes
2643 2011-03-23 14:43:49 StonetTZ has joined
2644 2011-03-23 14:43:54 <eltigre> Zenergy, then the chinese government can kill all demonstrators and be cheered by the rest of the people. Great idea...
2645 2011-03-23 14:44:20 <Zenergy> ...we're not talking about north korea
2646 2011-03-23 14:44:30 <eltigre> I can predict: As soon as the tibetans begin to use violence, as they propose, they will get mauled
2647 2011-03-23 14:44:35 <gavinandresen> genjix: I don't see a good reason to switch away from Drupal.
2648 2011-03-23 14:44:43 <jrabbit> Zenergy: on a realted note I think dropping laptops with starcraft loaded into DPRK might be a good tactic
2649 2011-03-23 14:44:57 <Zenergy> LOL
2650 2011-03-23 14:45:01 <genjix> gavinandresen: is drupal freely editable?
2651 2011-03-23 14:45:11 Mango-chan has joined
2652 2011-03-23 14:45:12 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
2653 2011-03-23 14:45:12 Mango-chan has joined
2654 2011-03-23 14:45:16 <gavinandresen> So I was hoping to see a new, pretty Drupal theme, and was planning on turning on Drupal Boost with the new, pretty theme
2655 2011-03-23 14:45:21 <genjix> gavinandresen: because it'd be nice if sgornick could put his news items on the front page
2656 2011-03-23 14:45:26 <eltigre> there is only one north korean pro gamer... he uses siege tanks, has very late nukes and is always supply blockeed
2657 2011-03-23 14:45:26 <gavinandresen> genjix: it is editable if you have the right Drupal permissions
2658 2011-03-23 14:45:37 <gavinandresen> I don't think we want the bitcoin.org homepage 'freely editable'
2659 2011-03-23 14:45:45 <genjix> why?
2660 2011-03-23 14:45:49 <genjix> give it a go :)
2661 2011-03-23 14:45:54 freeborn has joined
2662 2011-03-23 14:45:56 <eltigre> for north korea nothing works... they believe in fairy tales
2663 2011-03-23 14:46:11 <jrabbit> eltigre: starcraft
2664 2011-03-23 14:46:14 <genjix> (obviously require a login to stop spammers)
2665 2011-03-23 14:46:21 <jrabbit> eltigre: so does south korea.... fan death.
2666 2011-03-23 14:46:36 <eltigre> not even famines make the people revolt
2667 2011-03-23 14:46:49 <Zenergy> because they don't know any better
2668 2011-03-23 14:47:03 <Zenergy> North Koreans think they live in the richest country in the world
2669 2011-03-23 14:47:06 <gavinandresen> Sirius is mostly Mr. Bitcoin.org webmaster
2670 2011-03-23 14:47:10 <eltigre> probably NK uses even less repression than China uses. They just don't need to anymore
2671 2011-03-23 14:47:27 <jrabbit> eltigre: I'd beleive it
2672 2011-03-23 14:47:28 <Zenergy> eltigre, factually incorrect!
2673 2011-03-23 14:47:36 <jrabbit> Zenergy: how so?
2674 2011-03-23 14:47:40 <eltigre> Zenergy, what and why?
2675 2011-03-23 14:47:42 <Zenergy> They still law the hammer down, constantly
2676 2011-03-23 14:47:53 <eltigre> how would you know?
2677 2011-03-23 14:47:58 <jrabbit> I mean DPRKs prison camp stories are horrifying..
2678 2011-03-23 14:48:07 <Zenergy> It was only a few years ago we had a reporter sneak a camera in
2679 2011-03-23 14:48:17 <Zenergy> They still have entire prison camps
2680 2011-03-23 14:48:26 x420024x has joined
2681 2011-03-23 14:48:28 <Zenergy> And what makes you think NK has gone lax?
2682 2011-03-23 14:48:29 slush has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2683 2011-03-23 14:48:32 <eltigre> not lax
2684 2011-03-23 14:48:36 <jrabbit> Where else will you keep the communists?
2685 2011-03-23 14:48:48 <jrabbit> :P
2686 2011-03-23 14:48:50 <eltigre> just that they don't need to throw new people into jail as much or gun down protestor
2687 2011-03-23 14:48:50 <eltigre> s
2688 2011-03-23 14:49:19 <jrabbit> They're much like Dilbert's elbonia
2689 2011-03-23 14:49:29 <TD> looks like the forum is hosed
2690 2011-03-23 14:49:39 <TD> maybe time to consider putting two machines behind the site
2691 2011-03-23 14:49:43 <eltigre> NK is still a terrible place, overall
2692 2011-03-23 14:49:44 <TD> assuming that's possible
2693 2011-03-23 14:50:44 <jrabbit> TD: with a load balancer.
2694 2011-03-23 14:51:05 <TD> i meant, assuming the issue isn't a difficult to shard db is melting
2695 2011-03-23 14:51:13 <Zenergy> eltigre, well I'm just wondering if that idea is based off anything or just a general theory/estimation
2696 2011-03-23 14:51:19 dbitcoin has joined
2697 2011-03-23 14:52:05 x420024x is now known as xsomeguyx
2698 2011-03-23 14:52:13 <eltigre> well, a documentary I watched did show very little protest and very much "love" for their leader. We wouldn't see protest, except if it succeeded
2699 2011-03-23 14:52:28 <eltigre> and the nature of protest is that it either suceeds or dies out
2700 2011-03-23 14:52:34 <dbitcoin> bitcoin.org slashdoted again?
2701 2011-03-23 14:52:36 <jrabbit> maybe when kim dies.
2702 2011-03-23 14:53:42 <jrabbit> Egypt's market crashed on open :|
2703 2011-03-23 14:54:05 <jrabbit> PEOPLE ARE INCHARGE SELL EVERYTHING
2704 2011-03-23 14:54:13 xenon481 has joined
2705 2011-03-23 14:54:18 <Sirius> phew, just came home from a 10h flight from japan
2706 2011-03-23 14:54:32 <Zenergy> eltigre, were they aware that they were being filmed in this documentary?
2707 2011-03-23 14:55:00 <Zenergy> geniunely curious, not saying your wrong
2708 2011-03-23 14:55:08 <genjix> Sirius: we been slashdotted
2709 2011-03-23 14:55:22 <Sirius> yeah, noticed
2710 2011-03-23 14:55:30 <Zenergy> Sirius, what were you doing in japan :o
2711 2011-03-23 14:55:45 <Sirius> surfing tsunamis
2712 2011-03-23 14:55:48 <jrabbit> oh actually slashdotted :O
2713 2011-03-23 14:55:53 <xsomeguyx> bitcoin.org offline ??
2714 2011-03-23 14:55:59 <jrabbit> Yex.
2715 2011-03-23 14:56:02 <jrabbit> *s
2716 2011-03-23 14:56:04 <eltigre> Zenergy, you would have to say they were aware of it, but it doesn't really matter
2717 2011-03-23 14:56:06 <xsomeguyx> :(
2718 2011-03-23 14:56:13 <Sirius> I changed bitcoin.org to a static page but still doesn't load. Strange.
2719 2011-03-23 14:56:36 <eltigre> as I said, North Koreans have every reason to topple their regime but they don't
2720 2011-03-23 14:57:26 hazek has joined
2721 2011-03-23 14:57:41 <noagendamarket> best bitcoin or better bitcoin ?
2722 2011-03-23 14:57:47 <Zenergy> bestest
2723 2011-03-23 14:57:49 <hazek> does anyone know what's wrong with the forums?
2724 2011-03-23 14:58:03 <Zenergy> <xsomeguyx> bitcoin.org offline ??
2725 2011-03-23 14:58:03 <Zenergy> <jrabbit> Yex.
2726 2011-03-23 14:58:03 <hazek> I'm getting this:
2727 2011-03-23 14:58:04 <hazek> Connection Problems Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.
2728 2011-03-23 14:58:10 <jrabbit> gavinandresen: stick it in the topic?
2729 2011-03-23 14:58:11 <Zenergy> hazek, see above.
2730 2011-03-23 14:58:45 <hazek> yex?
2731 2011-03-23 14:59:01 <xenon481> Yex.
2732 2011-03-23 14:59:08 <hazek> please elaborate
2733 2011-03-23 14:59:12 <hazek> I'm a total layman
2734 2011-03-23 14:59:24 <eltigre> the site got slashdotted
2735 2011-03-23 14:59:26 <kiba> Sirius: looks like mysql trouble again?
2736 2011-03-23 14:59:43 <Zenergy> looool
2737 2011-03-23 14:59:48 <hazek> [15:58] <eltigre> the site got slashdotted
2738 2011-03-23 15:00:01 <jrabbit> Apperantly Yex is a word: "n. A hiccough."
2739 2011-03-23 15:00:04 <hazek> I'm assuming that means that it cannot handle the attention it's recieving right now?
2740 2011-03-23 15:00:13 <kiba> we achevied 251 people online at one time today
2741 2011-03-23 15:00:23 <StonetTZ> nice
2742 2011-03-23 15:00:27 <[Tycho]> Is that too much for mySQL ?
2743 2011-03-23 15:00:31 <jrabbit> oh in irc not on the forums?
2744 2011-03-23 15:00:56 <eltigre> depends on a lot of factors, 250 users can kill a site
2745 2011-03-23 15:00:57 <Zenergy> Why would you ever use MySql -.-
2746 2011-03-23 15:01:07 <eltigre> but shouldn't
2747 2011-03-23 15:01:14 <xsomeguyx> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/12/0647203/WikiLeaks-Money-and-Ron-Paul
2748 2011-03-23 15:01:21 <xsomeguyx> mentions bitcoin
2749 2011-03-23 15:01:50 <jrabbit> xsomeguyx: Lol no
2750 2011-03-23 15:01:52 <xsomeguyx> as a alternative payment for wikileaks, luv it
2751 2011-03-23 15:01:55 <noagendamarket> holy shite
2752 2011-03-23 15:02:02 * Zenergy drops postgres on the table
2753 2011-03-23 15:02:06 <jrabbit> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/0210207/Google-Engineer-Releases-Open-Source-Bitcoin-Client this is the source of the recent slashdotting.
2754 2011-03-23 15:02:11 <xsomeguyx> that 2
2755 2011-03-23 15:02:18 <noagendamarket> I like how ron paul wikileaks and bitcoin are coming together....
2756 2011-03-23 15:02:27 <Zenergy> I actually found bitcoin through reddit \o/
2757 2011-03-23 15:02:33 <eltigre> I don't like wikileaks
2758 2011-03-23 15:02:35 <Blitzboom> http://slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=bitcoin
2759 2011-03-23 15:02:40 <Blitzboom> we have four mentions now
2760 2011-03-23 15:02:56 <noagendamarket> 4 is unlucky in cnina
2761 2011-03-23 15:03:06 <noagendamarket> *china
2762 2011-03-23 15:03:12 <StonetTZ> we'll have 5 soon it's cool
2763 2011-03-23 15:03:14 <Zenergy> ....reddit
2764 2011-03-23 15:03:31 <eltigre> I don't think wikileaks does anything other people shouldn't be able to do, and I think intelligence services are drooling over the new possibilities of misinformation campaigns
2765 2011-03-23 15:03:36 <xsomeguyx> is this norm for bitcoin.org to go offline after getting front page on /. ?
2766 2011-03-23 15:03:56 <jrabbit> Blitzboom: thats 3 more then my projects have gotten :P
2767 2011-03-23 15:04:13 <eltigre> slashdot never calls ahead
2768 2011-03-23 15:04:14 trentzb has joined
2769 2011-03-23 15:04:26 <jrabbit> xsomeguyx: if servers aren't set up very well that many users can break not perfect setups
2770 2011-03-23 15:04:28 <kiba> bitcoin.org is dead
2771 2011-03-23 15:04:29 <kiba> dead
2772 2011-03-23 15:04:31 <kiba> dead dead
2773 2011-03-23 15:04:55 <Blitzboom> itâs working now
2774 2011-03-23 15:04:59 <eltigre> I bought my first coins today with hopes that after the slashdotting they are worth more ;-)
2775 2011-03-23 15:05:10 <Zenergy> eltigre, where did you buy them from?
2776 2011-03-23 15:05:18 <jrabbit> is bitcoin.it new or old?
2777 2011-03-23 15:05:22 <Blitzboom> ok, nvm. down again
2778 2011-03-23 15:05:22 <jrabbit> I've only recently seen it
2779 2011-03-23 15:05:25 <eltigre> coinpal
2780 2011-03-23 15:05:32 <Blitzboom> or not â¦
2781 2011-03-23 15:05:46 <dsg> jrabbit: It's the official wiki
2782 2011-03-23 15:05:53 dukeleto has joined
2783 2011-03-23 15:05:56 <jrabbit> Ah.
2784 2011-03-23 15:05:58 <kiba> and it's hosted on a separate server
2785 2011-03-23 15:06:05 <jrabbit> thats what replaced the doku wiki ok :)
2786 2011-03-23 15:07:43 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2787 2011-03-23 15:08:38 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2788 2011-03-23 15:09:12 freeborn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2789 2011-03-23 15:09:40 <tcatm> Sirius: did you add any SQL indexes for the forum? looks like the smf install script doesn't add any
2790 2011-03-23 15:10:31 <eltigre> if you use cloud based hosting you can scale more adaptively, but it can be quite painful and costly
2791 2011-03-23 15:10:35 <Aciid> yea
2792 2011-03-23 15:10:46 <jrabbit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin.it_Wiki why does it use "I" without refrencing a person? :P
2793 2011-03-23 15:10:49 wolfspraul has joined
2794 2011-03-23 15:11:08 <jrabbit> MagicalTux: you might as well have written it in the third person.
2795 2011-03-23 15:11:44 freeborn has joined
2796 2011-03-23 15:12:23 <noagendamarket> you could use squarespace...
2797 2011-03-23 15:12:29 <jrabbit> Sirius: yay you broke the wiki!
2798 2011-03-23 15:12:57 <jrabbit> Sirius: you can probably wave this in MagicalTux's face.
2799 2011-03-23 15:13:37 <Aciid> rackspace, aws,
2800 2011-03-23 15:13:39 <Aciid> theres options
2801 2011-03-23 15:13:43 <Aciid> devs use aws
2802 2011-03-23 15:16:35 <nanotube> genjix: so i guess i2p is blocked too eh?
2803 2011-03-23 15:18:33 <Sirius> wiki looks ok...
2804 2011-03-23 15:18:38 <welterde> nanotube: so far it isn't.. only the inital reseeding is blocked.. but once it works it works..
2805 2011-03-23 15:20:16 <genjix> i dont know
2806 2011-03-23 15:20:49 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2807 2011-03-23 15:21:56 hazek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2808 2011-03-23 15:21:57 <eltigre> something to think about is that the efficient market hypothesis probably doesn't hold for bitcoin yet
2809 2011-03-23 15:22:21 BlueMatt has joined
2810 2011-03-23 15:22:22 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2811 2011-03-23 15:22:22 BlueMatt has joined
2812 2011-03-23 15:22:58 <kiba> markets are only efficent so far as humans can be coaxed to be rational
2813 2011-03-23 15:24:01 <[Tycho]> "I would like to know how a pool operator could track, from server side, at what percent of the getwork the share was found at. I don't think that's possible" - does this phrase from FairUser looks like an epic fail or it's just me ?
2814 2011-03-23 15:24:43 <eltigre> I had the impression that if you trade non-rational on conventional markets, smart and algorithmic trader rip you a new one
2815 2011-03-23 15:25:21 <eltigre> still there is a psychological component, but it is hard to exploit
2816 2011-03-23 15:32:04 <luke-jr> ok, could someone look over this table and comment in Discussion? :p https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Universal_Bitcoin
2817 2011-03-23 15:32:05 <nanotube> welterde: mmm i bet there's a traffic proxy that masquerades as https... that'd probably work since they can't very well block https....
2818 2011-03-23 15:32:06 <jrabbit> http://www.kpho.com/news/27272012/detail.html
2819 2011-03-23 15:32:10 <jrabbit> :|
2820 2011-03-23 15:32:13 <genjix> looking.
2821 2011-03-23 15:32:32 <genjix> what's with the garish colours
2822 2011-03-23 15:33:09 <luke-jr> genjix: to easily tell at a glance which number system the unit is native to
2823 2011-03-23 15:33:10 <Sirius> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo hey whoa, someone made the animation :)
2824 2011-03-23 15:33:54 <Sirius> http://www.weusecoins.com/ and this
2825 2011-03-23 15:34:05 <luke-jr> Sirius: yeah, pretty cool huh?
2826 2011-03-23 15:34:14 <Sirius> who maintains it?
2827 2011-03-23 15:34:23 <luke-jr> there's a thread on the forum
2828 2011-03-23 15:34:23 <eltigre> maybe you should have a note to new users that if they "like" bitcoin in facebook and post it on twitter, their portfolio goes up in value =)
2829 2011-03-23 15:34:27 <luke-jr> I think justmoon?
2830 2011-03-23 15:34:30 <Sirius> looks better than bitcoin.org tbh...
2831 2011-03-23 15:34:32 <nanotube> Sirius: yep, yesterday's news. :) it's justmoon's project (with the help of other guys)
2832 2011-03-23 15:34:34 <eltigre> at least potentially from rising interest
2833 2011-03-23 15:34:46 <luke-jr> Sirius: bitcoin.org is pretty ugly :p
2834 2011-03-23 15:35:18 <Sirius> pretty ugly, nice expression :)
2835 2011-03-23 15:35:43 <Sirius> luke-jr: know who made the design?
2836 2011-03-23 15:35:52 <luke-jr> nope
2837 2011-03-23 15:35:57 <luke-jr> whoa, when did bitcoin.org redirect to wiki?
2838 2011-03-23 15:36:05 <Sirius> mr. S
2839 2011-03-23 15:36:25 <Sirius> I just redirected it to cope with slashdotting
2840 2011-03-23 15:36:28 <luke-jr> lol
2841 2011-03-23 15:36:44 <luke-jr> I would think static pages more efficient than wiki dynamaic pages
2842 2011-03-23 15:37:09 <genjix> yeah but magicaltux has better servers
2843 2011-03-23 15:37:59 <Sirius> weusecoins.com has no download links
2844 2011-03-23 15:38:07 <welterde> nanotube: yeah.. reseeding via proxy works fine afaik..
2845 2011-03-23 15:40:05 <nanotube> Sirius: since bitcoin.org is static html, i wonder why it's doing so poorly in a /.ing
2846 2011-03-23 15:40:34 <Sirius> because it's dynamic on drupal...
2847 2011-03-23 15:40:44 <luke-jr> lol
2848 2011-03-23 15:41:06 <luke-jr> Sirius: so what do you think about the UBC concept?
2849 2011-03-23 15:41:15 <Sirius> ubc?
2850 2011-03-23 15:41:28 <luke-jr> [11:31:00] <luke-jr> ok, could someone look over this table and comment in Discussion? :p https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Universal_Bitcoin
2851 2011-03-23 15:42:09 <luke-jr> Sirius: basically, a new base unit that can be divided in useful ways
2852 2011-03-23 15:43:29 <Sirius> I guess it won't be included in official releases, but go ahead and make your own release if you can convince people it's better :P
2853 2011-03-23 15:43:49 <luke-jr> 8 times by 2 (eg, 1/256), twice by 3 (so 1/9), twice by 5 (1/25), twice by 6 (1/36), twice by 8 (1/64), twice by 10 (1/100), twice by 12 (1/144), twice by 16 (1/256)
2854 2011-03-23 15:44:30 <luke-jr> Sirius: there is no official :P
2855 2011-03-23 15:44:37 devrandom has joined
2856 2011-03-23 15:45:52 <jrabbit> Satoshis really? XD
2857 2011-03-23 15:46:06 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2858 2011-03-23 15:46:15 <luke-jr> jrabbit: that's a standard unit already
2859 2011-03-23 15:46:28 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2860 2011-03-23 15:46:32 <jrabbit> where did 57,600 come from?
2861 2011-03-23 15:46:41 da2ce7 has joined
2862 2011-03-23 15:46:48 <luke-jr> jrabbit: meeting the requirements I outlined
2863 2011-03-23 15:46:56 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I know you love different number systems (which have many benifits) but most people wont/cant bother to get used to something other than decimal
2864 2011-03-23 15:47:06 <luke-jr> being twice divisible by any standard radix, plus being divisible in common fractions
2865 2011-03-23 15:47:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: this works with decimal too :p
2866 2011-03-23 15:47:28 <jrabbit> luke-jr: huh?
2867 2011-03-23 15:47:37 <jrabbit> oh.
2868 2011-03-23 15:47:46 <jrabbit> Its divisible by those numbers, gotcha
2869 2011-03-23 15:47:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: which table row
2870 2011-03-23 15:47:51 <BlueMatt> column*
2871 2011-03-23 15:48:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the Decimal column?
2872 2011-03-23 15:48:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok stop raping the wiki, make it clear which column is the mainline client
2873 2011-03-23 15:49:00 <BlueMatt> oh I though that was a main page, sorry
2874 2011-03-23 15:49:04 <BlueMatt> Ignore that
2875 2011-03-23 15:49:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why did you ignore the big fat NOTE at the top?
2876 2011-03-23 15:49:38 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I typically ignore things which are not half way down the page ;)
2877 2011-03-23 15:49:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the original client doesn't have any of those columns. this would replace the present BTC and TBC entirely, if it went anywhere
2878 2011-03-23 15:50:13 <luke-jr> it also fixes that common "but 21 mil is too few" whine
2879 2011-03-23 15:50:22 <BlueMatt> I see the potential there, but I dont think many people would accept it
2880 2011-03-23 15:50:42 MyTOTOE has joined
2881 2011-03-23 15:50:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's mainly a matter of a new UI and adoption, IMO
2882 2011-03-23 15:51:48 MyTOTOE has quit (Client Quit)
2883 2011-03-23 15:52:30 <luke-jr> 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, 1/9, 1/10, 1/12, 1/15, 1/16, 1/18, 1/20, 1/24, 1/25, 1/30, 1/32, 1/36, 1/40, 1/45, 1/48, 1/50, 1/60, 1/64, 1/72, 1/75, 1/80, 1/90, 1/96, 1/100, 1/120, 1/128, 1/144, 1/150, 1/160, 1/180, 1/192, 1/200, 1/225, 1/240, 1/256
2884 2011-03-23 15:52:35 <luke-jr> all those divisions are possible :P
2885 2011-03-23 15:52:36 <gavinandresen> Can anybody here edit the front page of the bitcoin wiki? The download links are slightly out-of-date
2886 2011-03-23 15:52:57 <luke-jr> nanotube: MagicalTux
2887 2011-03-23 15:53:42 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2888 2011-03-23 15:53:49 trentzb has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2889 2011-03-23 15:54:34 eltigre has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2890 2011-03-23 15:56:01 <genjix> gavinandresen: i can
2891 2011-03-23 15:56:04 <genjix> what needs doing
2892 2011-03-23 15:56:37 <gavinandresen> genjix: great, the download links should point to .02 instead of .01 (everything except Mac)
2893 2011-03-23 15:56:48 <Aciid> http://www.yubico.com/yubikey
2894 2011-03-23 15:56:49 <BlueMatt> anyone know why mingw appears to ignore flags given to make (like USE_UPNP)?
2895 2011-03-23 15:56:55 <Aciid> is there a retailer who sells yubikeys
2896 2011-03-23 15:56:57 <gavinandresen> (speaking of which, I should ping Laszlo about getting a .02 mac build...)
2897 2011-03-23 15:57:06 <genjix> gavinandresen: so just change everything to .02?
2898 2011-03-23 15:57:30 <noagendamarket> http://twitter.com/#!/jmstriegel/statuses/50578433994010624 lawl
2899 2011-03-23 15:57:38 <genjix> done
2900 2011-03-23 15:57:41 <gavinandresen> genjix: change .01 to .2 at the end of the pc/linux/ links
2901 2011-03-23 15:57:48 Zenergy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2902 2011-03-23 15:58:06 <genjix> oh ok
2903 2011-03-23 15:58:24 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2904 2011-03-23 15:58:39 <genjix> gavinandresen: ok now?
2905 2011-03-23 15:58:55 <genjix> seems to work for me.
2906 2011-03-23 15:59:05 <genjix> except mac... hold on
2907 2011-03-23 15:59:05 <gavinandresen> genjix: yup, thanks
2908 2011-03-23 15:59:25 * genjix did not count a mac as pc
2909 2011-03-23 15:59:32 <gavinandresen> don't change mac
2910 2011-03-23 15:59:54 <genjix> ok 0.02?
2911 2011-03-23 16:00:01 <gavinandresen> Mac should be .01
2912 2011-03-23 16:00:03 <genjix> ok
2913 2011-03-23 16:02:29 Stellar has joined
2914 2011-03-23 16:05:51 * kiba is a posting monster O_O
2915 2011-03-23 16:06:55 eltigre has joined
2916 2011-03-23 16:07:08 <devrandom> hi gavinandresen...
2917 2011-03-23 16:07:20 slush has joined
2918 2011-03-23 16:07:22 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2919 2011-03-23 16:07:25 <devrandom> got the gitian build process going with BlueMatt...
2920 2011-03-23 16:07:31 <gavinandresen> devrandom: howdy. Cool!
2921 2011-03-23 16:07:54 <genjix> ok i fixed up the main page.
2922 2011-03-23 16:07:59 <devrandom> he even got the same hash as me :)
2923 2011-03-23 16:08:01 devon_hillard has joined
2924 2011-03-23 16:08:36 <slush> gavinandresen: I'd like report wrong or at least unexpected behaviour of 'send' RPC command
2925 2011-03-23 16:09:10 <devrandom> gavinandresen - here is the build report: https://gist.github.com/806265
2926 2011-03-23 16:09:11 <slush> gavinandresen: my wallet got corrupted for some reason and RPC give me "false" with error message about possible double spending
2927 2011-03-23 16:09:14 <gavinandresen> slush: ok... as long as you open an issue at github. And I'm about to grab lunch...
2928 2011-03-23 16:09:21 <slush> gavinandresen: ok
2929 2011-03-23 16:09:37 <genjix> yeah use the bug tracker
2930 2011-03-23 16:09:59 <genjix> gavinandresen: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4761.0
2931 2011-03-23 16:10:12 <genjix> did you see that? consider adding it to your forum signature :p
2932 2011-03-23 16:12:15 <BlueMatt> dammit I got windows upnp working but they changed the command between 1.5 and the latest windows build (I still cant get the source to compile but they release the .a in the binary zip) and they dont release a windows build of the stable version
2933 2011-03-23 16:13:44 <BlueMatt> in other news, I now have upnp working on all platforms :)
2934 2011-03-23 16:14:05 <BlueMatt> with wxui option
2935 2011-03-23 16:14:27 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2936 2011-03-23 16:15:37 <genjix> kewl
2937 2011-03-23 16:16:57 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2938 2011-03-23 16:18:04 <Blitzboom> can we please vote this up? http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/g9sdr/bitcoins_a_decentralized_and_anonymous_currency/
2939 2011-03-23 16:18:47 ArtForz has joined
2940 2011-03-23 16:19:41 <genjix> "reddit is under heavy load right now, sorry. Try again in a few minutes."
2941 2011-03-23 16:19:59 <genjix> i hope ur not trying to give me a virus
2942 2011-03-23 16:19:59 <jrabbit> Blitzboom: bad redditiqutte but sure
2943 2011-03-23 16:20:04 <jrabbit> genjix: lol
2944 2011-03-23 16:20:09 <BlueMatt> god you gotta love alpaca socks
2945 2011-03-23 16:20:21 <genjix> did you buy some BlueMatt ?
2946 2011-03-23 16:20:26 <dbitcoin> reddit slashdotted too? :)
2947 2011-03-23 16:20:30 <jrabbit> Reddit is hillariously bad at uptime
2948 2011-03-23 16:20:32 <BlueMatt> genjix: no still havent, need to though
2949 2011-03-23 16:20:40 <jrabbit> dbitcoin: no, just reddit'd
2950 2011-03-23 16:20:42 <genjix> everybody needs socks huh
2951 2011-03-23 16:20:42 <jrabbit> :P
2952 2011-03-23 16:20:54 <jrabbit> genjix: except those without feet orshoes
2953 2011-03-23 16:21:16 <genjix> i wouldnt mind some thigh high socks
2954 2011-03-23 16:21:23 <jrabbit> http://www.draplin.com/2011/02/post_809.html pretty!
2955 2011-03-23 16:21:56 <nanotube> the alpaca merchant must be getting some serious uptick in business due to bitcoin - since every time people ask 'what can you buy for bitcoin' someone mentions the alpaca socks. :)
2956 2011-03-23 16:22:01 Sean93 has joined
2957 2011-03-23 16:22:05 <nanotube> it's even in the justmoon video :)
2958 2011-03-23 16:22:22 <genjix> :D
2959 2011-03-23 16:22:28 <eltigre> jrabbit, sounds SEO
2960 2011-03-23 16:22:53 <jrabbit> eltigre: ?
2961 2011-03-23 16:23:11 <jrabbit> nanotube: link?
2962 2011-03-23 16:23:18 <genjix> but they are 20% nylon?
2963 2011-03-23 16:23:33 <genjix> meh... only like 100+ % cotton
2964 2011-03-23 16:24:10 <genjix> Colors available are gray, brown, fawn, and dark gray/black *We're temporarily sold out of dark gray/black.*
2965 2011-03-23 16:24:13 <genjix> hehe
2966 2011-03-23 16:26:06 <nanotube> jrabbit: link to video, or to the socks?
2967 2011-03-23 16:26:14 <eltigre> jrabbit, whenever I see a site that doesn't make sens in the first second I say SEO ^^
2968 2011-03-23 16:26:20 <eltigre> I'm stupid that way
2969 2011-03-23 16:27:07 <Blitzboom> ok, now you can vote it up: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/g9sdr/bitcoins_a_decentralized_and_anonymous_currency/
2970 2011-03-23 16:27:13 <jrabbit> Socks.
2971 2011-03-23 16:27:36 <jrabbit> Blitzboom: still agaisnt redditquette
2972 2011-03-23 16:27:38 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2973 2011-03-23 16:27:52 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2974 2011-03-23 16:27:57 <Blitzboom> jrabbit: hmm, iâm not familiar with it, unfortunately
2975 2011-03-23 16:28:01 <Blitzboom> whatâs the problem?
2976 2011-03-23 16:28:02 <jrabbit> http://www.trimgairlines.com/ rofl this is the worst designed site I've seen in a while.
2977 2011-03-23 16:28:10 <jrabbit> Blitzboom: http://www.reddit.com/help/reddiquette
2978 2011-03-23 16:28:41 <Blitzboom> not going to read every single point
2979 2011-03-23 16:28:45 <Blitzboom> just tell me whatâs wrong
2980 2011-03-23 16:28:48 <jrabbit> ...
2981 2011-03-23 16:28:58 <jrabbit> Send out IMs, tweets, or any other message asking people to vote for your submission â or comply when other people ask you. A link should get points for being good, not because the submitter is part of a voting clique.
2982 2011-03-23 16:29:11 <jrabbit> you should read that if you give a fuck about reddit
2983 2011-03-23 16:29:12 <genjix> jrabbit: so bad !
2984 2011-03-23 16:29:20 <genjix> that site = l big lols
2985 2011-03-23 16:29:29 <jrabbit> genjix: click the start button mroe than once
2986 2011-03-23 16:29:30 <jrabbit> :D
2987 2011-03-23 16:29:34 <genjix> that music & fucking airplane :D
2988 2011-03-23 16:29:39 <Blitzboom> ok, i see
2989 2011-03-23 16:29:47 <genjix> is this real?
2990 2011-03-23 16:29:52 <jrabbit> genjix: donno
2991 2011-03-23 16:30:00 <jrabbit> via r/design
2992 2011-03-23 16:30:12 <genjix> click about us and it shows you in a cockpit landing on a runaway
2993 2011-03-23 16:30:16 JohnnyFusion has joined
2994 2011-03-23 16:30:17 <jrabbit> hahahaha
2995 2011-03-23 16:30:18 <eltigre> btw did you know that the chinese once flagged the word "rabbit" as offensive?
2996 2011-03-23 16:30:31 <nanotube> jrabbit: the socks must be linked on the ,,(bc,wiki trade page)
2997 2011-03-23 16:30:31 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade | [edit] Search Engines Optimization. Trade-Web.com, Buy/Sell contextual links for SEO purposes. .... This page was last modified on 21 March 2011, at 18:12. ...
2998 2011-03-23 16:30:33 <jrabbit> eltigre: I'm offended
2999 2011-03-23 16:31:05 <genjix> nanotube: under clothing
3000 2011-03-23 16:31:13 <jrabbit> searching socks found it
3001 2011-03-23 16:31:17 <eltigre> there is a video on youtube and other sites, in chinese but also subtitles. Very sick. And the most surprising thing is it was made in China
3002 2011-03-23 16:31:18 ArtForz has joined
3003 2011-03-23 16:31:23 <genjix> jrabbit: on that site clock the play button twice
3004 2011-03-23 16:31:27 <genjix> or thrice
3005 2011-03-23 16:31:50 <jrabbit> Yeah
3006 2011-03-23 16:31:54 <jrabbit> I just said that :P
3007 2011-03-23 16:32:23 <genjix> oh yeah
3008 2011-03-23 16:32:26 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3009 2011-03-23 16:32:34 <jrabbit> "Never say no to client" lol
3010 2011-03-23 16:32:38 <genjix> no way to exit about...
3011 2011-03-23 16:32:46 <genjix> oh yeah on the left
3012 2011-03-23 16:32:57 <genjix> shit, i would not want to fly in their aeroplane.
3013 2011-03-23 16:32:59 <jrabbit> genjix: jsut take off again /s
3014 2011-03-23 16:33:34 <genjix> why is plain html + simple styling so out of fashion?
3015 2011-03-23 16:33:43 <jrabbit> this seems like a business to buissnes company though
3016 2011-03-23 16:34:01 <eltigre> one day maybe you can pay for your first private jet with bitcoins? =P
3017 2011-03-23 16:34:01 <jrabbit> so it only has to be non-repulsive to middlemanagement
3018 2011-03-23 16:35:19 <jrabbit> "Really, having a bad website is the least of this airlineâs problems. It has already been banned by the European Union for being unsafe in a country that has a notoriously unsafe aviation industry. But a website is the face for a company, and this one appears to represent it accurately."
3019 2011-03-23 16:35:27 <nanotube> genjix: because then web designers wouldn't be able to charge more. :)
3020 2011-03-23 16:37:06 tower has joined
3021 2011-03-23 16:38:40 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3022 2011-03-23 16:45:39 JohnnyFusion has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3023 2011-03-23 16:48:09 <eltigre> what does it mean if the client says "2/unconfirmed" as status for one transaction?
3024 2011-03-23 16:48:15 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3025 2011-03-23 16:48:24 <JFK911> it means you need to wait
3026 2011-03-23 16:48:34 <eltigre> before doing what?
3027 2011-03-23 16:48:43 <JFK911> before seeing the status change
3028 2011-03-23 16:48:59 <eltigre> what would a confirmed status mean to me?
3029 2011-03-23 16:49:08 <JFK911> everyone agrees it's yours
3030 2011-03-23 16:49:44 <eltigre> ah ok I didn't know that... I already sent a small amount of that money elsewhere
3031 2011-03-23 16:50:47 brunner has joined
3032 2011-03-23 16:52:30 <xelister> FBI IDs voice, iris and more: Under the system, state and local police officers also will eventually use hand-held devices to scan suspects' fingerprints and send the images electronically to the FBI center. 'It's a quick scan to let police officers know if they should let the person go, or take him into custody,' Morris said. In later stages, NGI system also will be expanded to include the analysis of palm prints, handwriting, faces, human
3033 2011-03-23 16:52:32 <xelister> irises and voices.
3034 2011-03-23 16:52:46 <JFK911> why dont you just post all of slashdot
3035 2011-03-23 16:52:52 <xelister> indeed
3036 2011-03-23 16:53:18 <nanotube> eltigre: basically, the deeper in the chain your tx is, the less likely it is to be 'undone' via a chain split. for most practical purposes, even 1 conf is fine.
3037 2011-03-23 16:53:36 ArtForz has joined
3038 2011-03-23 16:54:34 <eltigre> nanotube, good to know
3039 2011-03-23 16:55:25 <eltigre> xelister, so what? If you don't trust your government you should vote for another one
3040 2011-03-23 16:56:33 <eltigre> It's not that the FBI even harrasses a significant portion of the citizens, even accounting for file sharers who actually do violate someone else's rights....
3041 2011-03-23 16:57:22 <xelister> eltigre: if I would get a bitcent, everyone when I inform you about some facts about your(?) country
3042 2011-03-23 16:57:26 <xelister> erm
3043 2011-03-23 16:57:27 <xelister> everytime.
3044 2011-03-23 16:58:06 <eltigre> no I am German
3045 2011-03-23 16:58:11 <xelister> FBI helps to imprison people for years for horrible crime, of torrentic music. (e.g. here in Poland around 50% teenagers do that, probably same in entire EU and also in USA)
3046 2011-03-23 16:58:34 <xelister> FBI sends to people spam-links saying it's a jailbait, and when people click, they are jailed
3047 2011-03-23 16:58:37 <eltigre> who has gone to jail for simple "torrenting"
3048 2011-03-23 16:59:51 semperos has joined
3049 2011-03-23 16:59:51 <xelister> Samantha Tumpach, 22, was arrested at a Chicago movie theater for allegedly videotaping portions of the movie The Twilight Saga: New Moon, with her digital camera. Tumpach says she snapped some photos of herself and her sister in their seats with their new camera before the film started. When the lights went down, she tried to turn it off, but was unfamiliar with the settings and wound up with four minutes of video that included commercials, a
3050 2011-03-23 16:59:53 <xelister> conversation she had with her sister and no footage from the movie. However, a manager spotted her with the camera and called the police. She was arrested, charged with a felony, and spent two days in jail. She now faces a substantial fine or the possibility of up to three years in prison.
3051 2011-03-23 17:00:02 <eltigre> basically the government can have and use any data they want. If they are in the habit of abusing this data you are fucked anyway, but that is a systematic problem and not about privacy
3052 2011-03-23 17:00:07 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3053 2011-03-23 17:00:29 <eltigre> xelister, mistakes happen
3054 2011-03-23 17:01:18 <xelister> Recorded movie with camera -> up to 3 years in prison
3055 2011-03-23 17:01:27 <xelister> it is the law, not some mistake
3056 2011-03-23 17:02:03 <eltigre> it is treated like theft
3057 2011-03-23 17:02:17 <xelister> that's what I am saying, yes
3058 2011-03-23 17:02:25 <eltigre> and this issue is obviously not contentious enough to campaign about it
3059 2011-03-23 17:02:40 <eltigre> so the majority is either stupid or ok with it
3060 2011-03-23 17:02:59 <xelister> hm?
3061 2011-03-23 17:03:01 semperos has left ()
3062 2011-03-23 17:03:44 <BlueMatt> the majority doesnt give a shit
3063 2011-03-23 17:03:45 <xelister> do you think it is o.k. that people go to jail for years for videotaping a stupid movie
3064 2011-03-23 17:03:52 <xelister> eltigre: ^
3065 2011-03-23 17:04:05 iandees_ is now known as iandees
3066 2011-03-23 17:04:11 iandees has left ("Leaving")
3067 2011-03-23 17:04:15 <xelister> I thought people should go to jail for serious and morally obvious shit, like say, beating someone up
3068 2011-03-23 17:04:18 <eltigre> I don't live in the US. Also I don't think she will. Usually courts use something called reason
3069 2011-03-23 17:04:40 <xelister> eltigre: you are most naive person I meet in this week online
3070 2011-03-23 17:04:48 * xelister pets eltigre with contempt
3071 2011-03-23 17:04:49 <xsomeguyx> not in the US they dont
3072 2011-03-23 17:05:17 <eltigre> now if someone films a movie with the intention of selling copies, they can go to jail for all I care
3073 2011-03-23 17:05:54 <xelister> well ok eltigre selling is something different
3074 2011-03-23 17:06:04 <xelister> but this is not that
3075 2011-03-23 17:06:07 <xsomeguyx> stupid newb Q: how many answers are possible in a bitcoin block?
3076 2011-03-23 17:06:50 <slush> "Error: The transaction was rejected. This might happen if some of the coins in your wallet were already spent, such as if you used a copy of wallet.dat and coins were spent in the copy but not marked as spent here.
3077 2011-03-23 17:06:57 <BlueMatt> xsomeguyx: a ton, and newb questions would be better suited to #bitcoin-discussion ;)
3078 2011-03-23 17:07:00 <slush> Does anybody know WTF?
3079 2011-03-23 17:07:11 <slush> my client started doing this tonight
3080 2011-03-23 17:07:16 <slush> after bitcoin crash
3081 2011-03-23 17:07:26 <xelister> xsomeguyx: you mean confirmations?
3082 2011-03-23 17:07:27 <BlueMatt> slush: ran -rescan?
3083 2011-03-23 17:07:39 <slush> after -rescan I still see balance, I can send transactions, but RPC shows me this error
3084 2011-03-23 17:07:40 <xsomeguyx> no, answers or solutions.
3085 2011-03-23 17:07:55 <xelister> slush: the wallet of pool server?
3086 2011-03-23 17:07:58 <slush> actually the TX is listed in listtransactions and probably will go to blockchain...
3087 2011-03-23 17:08:01 <slush> xelister: yes
3088 2011-03-23 17:08:16 <slush> I though that -rescan solved that, but it is back again
3089 2011-03-23 17:08:32 <BlueMatt> slush: must be corrupted, have you tried gavin's bitcointools?
3090 2011-03-23 17:08:37 <BlueMatt> slush: backup of course ;)
3091 2011-03-23 17:09:07 <slush> did tried that, but -rescan should fix it
3092 2011-03-23 17:09:33 <BlueMatt> hmmm...well its way beyond my expertise level
3093 2011-03-23 17:09:49 <slush> ArtForz: ^^
3094 2011-03-23 17:11:07 <BlueMatt> slush: do you see a specific error in debug.log?
3095 2011-03-23 17:12:01 <tcatm> I just noticed bitcoin doesn't catch SIGINT. Might be a good idea to call Shutdown() so we don't mess up the wallet... :)
3096 2011-03-23 17:12:03 <slush> hm, nothing
3097 2011-03-23 17:12:23 overtorque has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3098 2011-03-23 17:12:34 <slush> tcatm: I killed bitcoin last night, it stopped to respond
3099 2011-03-23 17:12:41 <slush> so it might be the reason
3100 2011-03-23 17:13:00 <genjix> tcatm: yep i had bitcoin crash when i closed ssh too
3101 2011-03-23 17:13:12 <genjix> turned into a zombie process
3102 2011-03-23 17:13:22 <slush> does not break fixwallet it even more? :)
3103 2011-03-23 17:13:37 <slush> genjix: I see bitcoind as zombie process normally
3104 2011-03-23 17:13:38 <xelister> bitcoind turned into zombie process! Waaaleeeetsss.
3105 2011-03-23 17:14:00 <BlueMatt> that needs some serious debugging
3106 2011-03-23 17:14:04 <slush> genjix: and it usually works :)
3107 2011-03-23 17:14:20 <genjix> slush: yeah me too, but this time it was because it wasn't responding on json
3108 2011-03-23 17:16:03 <tcatm> genjix: so we should catch SIGHUP, too
3109 2011-03-23 17:16:08 <slush> tcatm: do you have any idea what to do with the wallet?
3110 2011-03-23 17:16:23 <slush> there are thousands btc in it, I don't want to lose them :)
3111 2011-03-23 17:16:32 <xelister> slush: I can insepct it for you sire
3112 2011-03-23 17:16:36 <slush> lol
3113 2011-03-23 17:16:43 <slush> what's your email?
3114 2011-03-23 17:16:44 <genjix> slush: send it to me.
3115 2011-03-23 17:16:46 <xelister> free of charge my friend \o/
3116 2011-03-23 17:16:49 <genjix> i am an experts
3117 2011-03-23 17:16:58 <genjix> xelister is a scammer
3118 2011-03-23 17:17:02 <xelister> he can't even spell expert, our services are better
3119 2011-03-23 17:17:23 <xelister> I even have own computer
3120 2011-03-23 17:17:24 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3121 2011-03-23 17:17:26 <xelister> >_>
3122 2011-03-23 17:17:56 justmoon has joined
3123 2011-03-23 17:17:59 ArtForz has joined
3124 2011-03-23 17:18:02 <tcatm> slush: what have you tried? are there any addresses you need to keep in that wallet?
3125 2011-03-23 17:18:34 <slush> yes, I have one address for sending funds from pool backends
3126 2011-03-23 17:18:44 <xelister> my friend, CEO of Oil Deposits Inc, Nigeria, is expert in recovering wallet, you can email too at mambojumbo@yahoo.com.ng
3127 2011-03-23 17:18:56 <BlueMatt> lol oh thats smart
3128 2011-03-23 17:19:03 bulletbill has joined
3129 2011-03-23 17:19:42 <tcatm> slush: I'd suggest sending all bitcoins to a new wallet and update all addresses on your backends.
3130 2011-03-23 17:19:51 mog has joined
3131 2011-03-23 17:20:08 <slush> ok, I'll try
3132 2011-03-23 17:20:17 <slush> expect large transaction in bitcoin monitor :)
3133 2011-03-23 17:20:29 <xelister> could that be connect to my recent pool payout taking 12 HOURS to arrive (get confirmed) ?
3134 2011-03-23 17:20:47 <slush> xelister: as I noticed in thread, I stopped payout processing
3135 2011-03-23 17:20:49 <slush> for this reason
3136 2011-03-23 17:20:55 <slush> so - yes
3137 2011-03-23 17:21:10 <slush> oh, you mean that you see it and it isn't confirmed?
3138 2011-03-23 17:21:12 <tcatm> If anything is left after that transactions we can try to recover bitcoins without risking too many coins.
3139 2011-03-23 17:21:15 <slush> then no - it;s another problem
3140 2011-03-23 17:21:23 <slush> but I'm paying fees, so whats weird
3141 2011-03-23 17:21:24 <xelister> slush: it took 12 hours between 0/unconfirmed and 1/unconfiremd
3142 2011-03-23 17:21:40 <xelister> slush: I PM'ed you this tx id afair
3143 2011-03-23 17:22:00 <slush> if it is in your client, then I cannot do anything...
3144 2011-03-23 17:22:20 <xelister> I ment the TX from slush pool to my local miner
3145 2011-03-23 17:22:23 <xelister> erm, to my wallet
3146 2011-03-23 17:22:35 <xelister> it is not a problem, but curious what happened
3147 2011-03-23 17:23:01 * xelister bbl
3148 2011-03-23 17:26:30 <eltigre> I think I understand now that bitcoins aren't really good for money laundering. It might be good currency for entirely criminal exchanges, but the volume will be quite small
3149 2011-03-23 17:26:52 <hwolf> why is BTC not good for money laundering?
3150 2011-03-23 17:28:16 <genjix> hwolf: it is excellent for money laundering.
3151 2011-03-23 17:28:29 <xelister> eltigre: my butterknife can be used for extortion
3152 2011-03-23 17:28:50 <hwolf> eltigre says it is not good for money laundering, and I seem to be doing just fine
3153 2011-03-23 17:28:53 <xelister> my penis can be used for rape
3154 2011-03-23 17:28:54 <eltigre> you like comparing apples and bananas don't you?
3155 2011-03-23 17:28:58 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm master * rc3f1400 / init.cpp : catch SIGINT, SIGHUP and SIGSEGV and shutdown cleanly - http://bit.ly/dMgm9X
3156 2011-03-23 17:29:03 <xelister> eltigre: and your balls can be a part of rape too, if you have them
3157 2011-03-23 17:29:46 user96321 has joined
3158 2011-03-23 17:30:14 <xelister> eltigre: how come you are so naive.. mind me asking how old are you? Everything can be used for everything, and some people are getting tired of government calling "CRIME" on everything to push own private goals of leaders (like, anti-privacy laws, too heavy taxation, and other restrictions)
3159 2011-03-23 17:30:42 <eltigre> I think if hackers can exchange money and cooperate via bitcoin, that is a lot better for them than exchanging cash via paypal. The transfers are not really traceable, and if they have a legitimate source of bitcoins too, that is much safer than paypal or anything
3160 2011-03-23 17:31:05 <eltigre> I just don't take anything for granted
3161 2011-03-23 17:31:19 <xelister> my point is that people should be more free, and words like "criminals" or "money laundering" should be used for ACTUALL really BAD things, like say huge cocain business using extortion, beating, bombing, kidnapping, human slaving and so on
3162 2011-03-23 17:31:30 <eltigre> hacking is really bad
3163 2011-03-23 17:31:48 <eltigre> so is identity theft
3164 2011-03-23 17:32:00 <eltigre> and making money off gamblers
3165 2011-03-23 17:32:03 <xelister> ok, in your example
3166 2011-03-23 17:32:04 <eps1> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/a-serious-problem-with-bitcoin-it-wastes-energy/2011/03/23
3167 2011-03-23 17:32:20 <eps1> apologies if that has already been posted here
3168 2011-03-23 17:32:22 <xelister> people should target the primary crime that is obviously bad, "hacking into someones computer" or "stealing identity"
3169 2011-03-23 17:32:30 <eps1> the feedback loop thing is interesting
3170 2011-03-23 17:32:40 niekie has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3171 2011-03-23 17:32:45 <eps1> i can't help but think he has missed the point though
3172 2011-03-23 17:32:47 <xelister> and NOT target technology that may be used for that as well for other things both good and bad like "private untrackable money"
3173 2011-03-23 17:32:58 <eltigre> I don't accuse bitcoin of being criminal, I am just thinking about implications which might lead someone else to take considerable action
3174 2011-03-23 17:33:04 <eps1> bitcoin isn't about generating free money
3175 2011-03-23 17:33:23 <xelister> eltigre: you mean that stupid govs may start to ban it? well oppose, vote better, etc
3176 2011-03-23 17:33:26 <eps1> well it is at the moment but if it takes off it won't be
3177 2011-03-23 17:33:34 MartianW has joined
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3179 2011-03-23 17:34:37 <eltigre> that's why I say I hope bitcoin will always more crucial to the legitimate economy than to the illegitimate
3180 2011-03-23 17:35:00 bulletbill has left ()
3181 2011-03-23 17:35:01 <xelister> eps1: this blog is written by some retard, post date is now (2011-03) and he STILL is talking about CPU mining which makes no sense for sevearl months now
3182 2011-03-23 17:35:06 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
3183 2011-03-23 17:35:16 <xelister> eltigre: yeap, lets hope that
3184 2011-03-23 17:35:19 Sthebig has quit (Quit: /quit)
3185 2011-03-23 17:35:25 KBme has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3186 2011-03-23 17:36:13 niekie has joined
3187 2011-03-23 17:36:33 <xelister> eps1: s/retard/not well uptodate informed guy
3188 2011-03-23 17:36:39 <eltigre> Somehow I wonder if p2p currency is good for the economy
3189 2011-03-23 17:37:02 <eltigre> basically economic growth currently depends on the US printing money and the rest believing they are good for it
3190 2011-03-23 17:37:03 <eps1> xelister: i think the point is he is talking about mining at all
3191 2011-03-23 17:37:30 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3192 2011-03-23 17:37:35 <eltigre> if the rest of the World doesn't trust in the US any more, there will be the mother of all crisis
3193 2011-03-23 17:39:10 phantomcircuit has joined
3194 2011-03-23 17:42:05 eltigre has left ("Verlassend")
3195 2011-03-23 17:43:01 eltigre has joined
3196 2011-03-23 17:43:03 KBme has joined
3197 2011-03-23 17:43:09 <eltigre> has anybody thought about taxation yet?
3198 2011-03-23 17:43:34 <genjix> haha fuk u
3199 2011-03-23 17:43:36 <eltigre> just imagine what happens if someone was able to have all his monetary transactions with bitcoins
3200 2011-03-23 17:43:42 <genjix> u funny man. i kill u last
3201 2011-03-23 17:43:58 <eltigre> wouldn't everybody do it then?
3202 2011-03-23 17:44:13 <eltigre> and you think government had the option of not reacting??
3203 2011-03-23 17:45:29 <eps1> interesting question actually
3204 2011-03-23 17:45:33 <xelister> bitcoin can be like 0.0001% of the avoiding taxing market now imo
3205 2011-03-23 17:45:39 <eltigre> seriously, as long as I have to get conventional money out of the bitcoin system to keep me from starving, I can file taxes and everything is fine
3206 2011-03-23 17:45:53 <phantomcircuit> eltigre, you're required to report barter (which bitcoin technically is) to the IRS
3207 2011-03-23 17:45:58 <eps1> but it would require them to be able to buy food, rent, electricity, etc with BTC
3208 2011-03-23 17:46:28 <xelister> there is easy solution to this all
3209 2011-03-23 17:46:30 <xelister> no tax
3210 2011-03-23 17:46:39 <phantomcircuit> xelister, lol right
3211 2011-03-23 17:46:42 <phantomcircuit> and i want a pony
3212 2011-03-23 17:46:43 <xelister> constant payment for using a country/province/city instead
3213 2011-03-23 17:46:47 <xelister> phantomcircuit: why the fuck not
3214 2011-03-23 17:46:53 <eltigre> phantomcircuit, not familiar with tax law in the US at all, but I guess there must be a mechanism... would be hard to quantify the value of bitcoins without any authoritative source
3215 2011-03-23 17:47:07 <xelister> its the crazy taxation system that is ridiculous overcomplex shit
3216 2011-03-23 17:47:12 <eps1> http://www.swarb.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5652
3217 2011-03-23 17:47:15 <phantomcircuit> because the majority is retarded and enjoys the false shedding of responsibility
3218 2011-03-23 17:47:20 <eltigre> xelister, you are too naive
3219 2011-03-23 17:47:35 <xelister> eltigre: no, I say what would be best, not that it can be easly done right now
3220 2011-03-23 17:47:36 <phantomcircuit> eltigre, iirc there are pretty reasonable rules
3221 2011-03-23 17:47:40 <eps1> xelister: you mean a flat tax?
3222 2011-03-23 17:47:41 <slush> tcatm: I created completely new wallet and the problem is the same
3223 2011-03-23 17:47:43 <eltigre> taxation will always be neccessary
3224 2011-03-23 17:47:44 <xelister> eps1: yes
3225 2011-03-23 17:48:02 <eps1> xelister: i agree, would make things so much simpler
3226 2011-03-23 17:48:03 <slush> I have to say that I'm using settxfee patch
3227 2011-03-23 17:48:04 <eltigre> and flat taxes never really worked recently
3228 2011-03-23 17:48:05 <xelister> eltigre: tax per use of country, not per VERY HARD to calculate and with huge grey area "income" and "profit"
3229 2011-03-23 17:48:12 <phantomcircuit> eltigre, taxation is 99.99% not necessary, but that's more or less irrelevant
3230 2011-03-23 17:48:30 <xelister> eltigre: they could esp if you have some choice
3231 2011-03-23 17:48:36 <eltigre> phantomcircuit, how do you pay police, firefighters and education then?
3232 2011-03-23 17:48:43 <slush> I have to go, but this is totally screwing me
3233 2011-03-23 17:49:03 <xelister> if you are rich, pay flat-tax on access to state greate park, on access to state best medical facilities and so on. if you are poorer, pay veyr small basic tax
3234 2011-03-23 17:49:22 <xelister> or if your are totally broke - gtfo of the city and move to some small villages with 0 tax
3235 2011-03-23 17:49:22 <eltigre> there might be some "lower point of energy" but we absolutely lack any information on where this point is and a catalysator to get there
3236 2011-03-23 17:49:27 <xelister> so still richer pay more
3237 2011-03-23 17:49:29 <eps1> so not a proper flat tax then
3238 2011-03-23 17:49:30 <xelister> but x1000 simpler
3239 2011-03-23 17:49:49 darsk1ez has joined
3240 2011-03-23 17:49:51 <xelister> and totally free
3241 2011-03-23 17:49:59 <eltigre> and 1000x times unfairer
3242 2011-03-23 17:50:00 <xelister> you frelly buy from "country" some better rights
3243 2011-03-23 17:50:05 <xelister> no, basic rights are guaranteed
3244 2011-03-23 17:50:24 <eltigre> I live in a country where you can have any illness you want and not bankrupt your family
3245 2011-03-23 17:50:26 <xelister> eltigre: also today richest live in luxyry parts of big cities, and poor in suburbs or worse
3246 2011-03-23 17:50:42 <xelister> eltigre: yes, basic med care for free. pay more for extras
3247 2011-03-23 17:50:50 <eltigre> and the rich areas actually pay for the poor
3248 2011-03-23 17:50:54 <eps1> i would much rather see sales tax got rid of and just have an income tax
3249 2011-03-23 17:50:59 <eps1> or vice versa
3250 2011-03-23 17:51:02 <eltigre> with health there cannot be extras ever
3251 2011-03-23 17:51:04 <eps1> i don't really mind
3252 2011-03-23 17:51:07 <xelister> where I live, in theory medical is free... and in practice, if you have cancer, YOU pay say 100.000 USD on medications
3253 2011-03-23 17:51:14 <eps1> just simplify the fucking thing
3254 2011-03-23 17:51:26 <xelister> eps1: such utopia will not work
3255 2011-03-23 17:51:26 <slush> tcatm: well, I downgraded to version without settxfee and sendmany and it's OK now
3256 2011-03-23 17:51:32 <tcatm> slush: How can the problem be reproduced?
3257 2011-03-23 17:51:36 <eps1> xelister: where do you live?
3258 2011-03-23 17:51:36 <theorbtwo> xelister: And who pays for the courts that make sure the basic rights get upheald?
3259 2011-03-23 17:51:45 <xelister> sorry, it is NOT possible to deliver 100.000 USD per person help to EVERY of say 100,000 that need it
3260 2011-03-23 17:51:51 <xelister> eps1: I was talking about pl
3261 2011-03-23 17:51:56 <theorbtwo> Who pays for the medical care for the poor?
3262 2011-03-23 17:52:01 <xelister> theorbtwo: tax for using cities pay for it
3263 2011-03-23 17:52:02 <eps1> you
3264 2011-03-23 17:52:29 <eltigre> in Germany the system works fine
3265 2011-03-23 17:52:34 <eltigre> everyone complains of course
3266 2011-03-23 17:52:52 <theorbtwo> xelister: So you get almost all the benifits of the government if you live in the sticks, and the people in the city pay for it?
3267 2011-03-23 17:52:55 <eltigre> but the insurances don't really loose that much money, and doctors aren't shit poor either
3268 2011-03-23 17:53:01 <eps1> there was a thing on reddit about recycling in germany
3269 2011-03-23 17:53:20 <slush> tcatm: ./bitcoind sendtoaddress <address> 1
3270 2011-03-23 17:53:31 <genjix> xelister: polish girls love me because of my dark skin/features :)
3271 2011-03-23 17:53:31 <eps1> use my address!
3272 2011-03-23 17:53:51 <eltigre> I never figured out why polish girls love me -.-
3273 2011-03-23 17:53:56 <Sean93> i had one share but when i refreshed the page i had none?
3274 2011-03-23 17:54:01 <slush> tcatm: new wallet, current trunk (sendmany etc)
3275 2011-03-23 17:54:17 <xelister> hmm I g2g
3276 2011-03-23 17:54:19 <xelister> bbl guys
3277 2011-03-23 17:54:23 <genjix> bye
3278 2011-03-23 17:54:23 <tcatm> sendtoaddress works
3279 2011-03-23 17:54:54 <Sean93> why would anyone need to send a toad dress?? lol
3280 2011-03-23 17:55:31 <tcatm> slush: can you make a tarball of your bitcoin directory?
3281 2011-03-23 17:55:42 <eps1> i do wish the bitcoin commands had dashes between the words
3282 2011-03-23 17:55:46 <slush> without wallet? :)
3283 2011-03-23 17:56:21 <tcatm> or with the empty wallet that causes the same error
3284 2011-03-23 17:56:25 <slush> I have to go now, make it later
3285 2011-03-23 17:56:30 <tcatm> k
3286 2011-03-23 17:56:50 <slush> can be caused by other files in directory?
3287 2011-03-23 17:57:04 <slush> I mean - should I try to re-download everything with clean directory except the wallet.dat?
3288 2011-03-23 17:57:31 <tcatm> might be worth a try
3289 2011-03-23 17:57:39 <slush> ok, thanks
3290 2011-03-23 17:59:04 <ArtForz> sounds like something isnt properly marking input tx as spent
3291 2011-03-23 17:59:43 Tsarge517 has joined
3292 2011-03-23 18:00:20 <ArtForz> thouh sendmany doesnt touch anything there
3293 2011-03-23 18:00:56 <ArtForz> bbiab, food
3294 2011-03-23 18:03:01 basro has joined
3295 2011-03-23 18:04:21 topace has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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3299 2011-03-23 18:10:37 topace has joined
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3301 2011-03-23 18:12:30 Blitzboom has joined
3302 2011-03-23 18:12:30 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
3303 2011-03-23 18:12:30 Blitzboom has joined
3304 2011-03-23 18:12:35 Skintkingle has joined
3305 2011-03-23 18:12:54 coffeetablesex has joined
3306 2011-03-23 18:18:03 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3307 2011-03-23 18:18:27 Sthebig has joined
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3309 2011-03-23 18:24:00 <genjix> "the exchange rate is ridiculous... (ATMIT 0.85001 dollars gets you 1 bitcoin) bitcoins are practically useless for payments because of the poor exchange rate"
3310 2011-03-23 18:24:04 <genjix> from /.
3311 2011-03-23 18:24:08 <genjix> wtf?
3312 2011-03-23 18:24:13 <genjix> i am confus.
3313 2011-03-23 18:24:34 <jgarzik> i am confucius.
3314 2011-03-23 18:25:18 <xelister> I'm sir Confuciunus
3315 2011-03-23 18:25:29 <BlueMatt> confucious say, you sir make no sense
3316 2011-03-23 18:25:32 tower has joined
3317 2011-03-23 18:25:35 <genjix> i thought you had to leave xelister
3318 2011-03-23 18:25:44 <xelister> thats what I thought too
3319 2011-03-23 18:25:52 <xelister> but then UR MOM said she got period >_>
3320 2011-03-23 18:25:54 <genjix> :)
3321 2011-03-23 18:25:54 <TD> man, i give up. waiting for a block is like waiting for a watched pot to boil
3322 2011-03-23 18:25:58 <genjix> lap it up.
3323 2011-03-23 18:26:02 <TD> time to go home
3324 2011-03-23 18:32:50 <genjix> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=49 < good read
3325 2011-03-23 18:33:34 joepie91 has joined
3326 2011-03-23 18:33:39 wood has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3327 2011-03-23 18:34:41 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
3328 2011-03-23 18:34:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114712 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 199 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 11 hours, 52 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68044.51528066
3329 2011-03-23 18:34:55 mrb_ has joined
3330 2011-03-23 18:37:02 bitcoiner has joined
3331 2011-03-23 18:38:15 <Skintkingle> So i'm here because a random girl walked into my Office today and asked how much it would cost me to setup a Mining rig for BitCoin..... i had no idea what she was on about until now.
3332 2011-03-23 18:38:20 coffeetablesex has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3333 2011-03-23 18:38:26 <jgarzik> TD: I think a watched pot has a higher probability of boiling ;-)
3334 2011-03-23 18:39:30 <xelister> Skintkingle: =)
3335 2011-03-23 18:39:33 <xelister> Skintkingle: where do you work
3336 2011-03-23 18:39:51 <Meelu> ima donate to this service as soon as i begin my weed selling empire online this week
3337 2011-03-23 18:39:52 RBecker has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3338 2011-03-23 18:39:54 AmpEater has joined
3339 2011-03-23 18:40:05 <Meelu> thanks for all the good work guys
3340 2011-03-23 18:41:19 <JFK911> same
3341 2011-03-23 18:41:25 <JFK911> Meelu: link please
3342 2011-03-23 18:41:37 <Meelu> http://www.topix.net/forumsearch/drug/valium
3343 2011-03-23 18:41:44 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3344 2011-03-23 18:41:44 <luke-jr> Skintkingle: wtf?
3345 2011-03-23 18:41:46 <Meelu> or the onion page
3346 2011-03-23 18:41:53 <Meelu> for silk road
3347 2011-03-23 18:42:04 <Meelu> i should open a weedbay
3348 2011-03-23 18:42:09 <Meelu> :D
3349 2011-03-23 18:42:09 <AmpEater> do it
3350 2011-03-23 18:42:10 <luke-jr> jgarzik: he said a block, not HIM finding a block :P
3351 2011-03-23 18:42:17 <Meelu> on tor
3352 2011-03-23 18:42:21 <luke-jr> Meelu: only if you're somewhere it's legal
3353 2011-03-23 18:42:29 <Meelu> freedomhosting still exists right? its not only for cp is it?
3354 2011-03-23 18:42:31 <Blitzboom> we hit the frontpage of http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/
3355 2011-03-23 18:42:44 Skintkingle_ has joined
3356 2011-03-23 18:42:44 <molecular> does anyone else here have problems with getwork (likely due to the tx spamming)?
3357 2011-03-23 18:42:45 Hiro_Protagonist has joined
3358 2011-03-23 18:43:05 <Meelu> luke-jr ufcourse its illegal silly, weed hasn't been legalised yet
3359 2011-03-23 18:43:14 <AmpEater> looking good here
3360 2011-03-23 18:43:17 <Meelu> but no harm dne
3361 2011-03-23 18:43:22 * luke-jr reports Meelu to the UK
3362 2011-03-23 18:43:30 * Meelu quits
3363 2011-03-23 18:43:43 StonetTZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3364 2011-03-23 18:43:48 <jgarzik> molecular: slush was talking about it
3365 2011-03-23 18:44:00 <jgarzik> molecular: though I'm running the latest -limitfreerelay code, which is recommended
3366 2011-03-23 18:44:04 <luke-jr> molecular: not that I've noticed.
3367 2011-03-23 18:44:06 <Hiro_Protagonist> buncha freaks, tryin' ta take over teh world... :p
3368 2011-03-23 18:44:12 <luke-jr> molecular: but then, I require fees
3369 2011-03-23 18:44:18 <jgarzik> -limitfreerelay should work well
3370 2011-03-23 18:44:18 <genjix> Meelu: see PM
3371 2011-03-23 18:44:18 <molecular> me too, git-version with limitfreerelay=1
3372 2011-03-23 18:44:27 xenon481 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3373 2011-03-23 18:44:30 <jgarzik> molecular: hmmm, still seeing problems?
3374 2011-03-23 18:44:39 <molecular> yes
3375 2011-03-23 18:44:49 n00bie has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds)
3376 2011-03-23 18:45:02 <molecular> every couple minutes, getting worse until I get no getwork at all any more until restart of bitcoin
3377 2011-03-23 18:45:22 <genjix> lol did Meelu actually leave?
3378 2011-03-23 18:45:23 <molecular> I'm on a rather slowish cpu (atom)
3379 2011-03-23 18:45:33 Skintkingle has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3380 2011-03-23 18:45:44 <Skintkingle_> charming
3381 2011-03-23 18:45:50 <luke-jr> genjix: no
3382 2011-03-23 18:45:52 * Meelu Disclaimer: Anything i do say is fictional
3383 2011-03-23 18:45:59 Skintkingle_ has quit (Client Quit)
3384 2011-03-23 18:46:01 <Meelu> /s
3385 2011-03-23 18:46:09 <luke-jr> Meelu: probably still enough for a search warrant.
3386 2011-03-23 18:46:22 <luke-jr> btw, this channel is logged
3387 2011-03-23 18:46:25 <Meelu> its cool man im happy with a search warrant
3388 2011-03-23 18:46:25 Skintkingle has joined
3389 2011-03-23 18:46:29 <Meelu> as long as they dont take my pc
3390 2011-03-23 18:46:29 <Meelu> oh
3391 2011-03-23 18:46:37 <Hiro_Protagonist> lolol
3392 2011-03-23 18:46:43 <theorbtwo> If you are on a slow CPU, don't CPU-mine (for that matter, if you are on a fast one, it's probably still not worth it). GPU-mine instead.
3393 2011-03-23 18:47:02 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: you still need getwork to GPU mine
3394 2011-03-23 18:47:34 * Meelu I will be selling kg's of weed if anyone likes it they are in my garden
3395 2011-03-23 18:47:35 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Well, of course, but your CPU speed isn't relevant then, because getwork should create trivial cpu load anyway.
3396 2011-03-23 18:47:50 <jrabbit> https://code.google.com/p/pyrit/ oh god
3397 2011-03-23 18:47:54 <Hiro_Protagonist> but srsly, can anyone spare a sec for a few really newbish questions? for instance, is the source of 'value' in the bitcoin system the processing power I bring to the partry?
3398 2011-03-23 18:47:55 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: where did you get that idea?
3399 2011-03-23 18:48:10 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: no, that's just one factor
3400 2011-03-23 18:48:15 <molecular> theorbtwo, I do gpu-mine. but the bitcoin node is on a cpu naturally. the problem is that some stuff has to be done when transaction come in to organize new getwork
3401 2011-03-23 18:48:24 <luke-jr> the direct source of value, is people accepting payment in bitcoins
3402 2011-03-23 18:48:42 freeborn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3403 2011-03-23 18:48:44 <luke-jr> people accepting payment depends on bitcoins being trustworthy as controlled-inflation
3404 2011-03-23 18:48:45 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: That getwork is "easy"? Er... good question.
3405 2011-03-23 18:48:58 <luke-jr> network hashing power keeps the system secure
3406 2011-03-23 18:49:16 <luke-jr> theorbtwo: getwork means building a block; when there's tx spam, that can be a bit of work
3407 2011-03-23 18:49:24 <luke-jr> especially for low-end CPUs like Atom
3408 2011-03-23 18:49:40 <molecular> guys, what can I do to leverage the problem
3409 2011-03-23 18:49:43 <theorbtwo> luke-jr: Hmm, interesting.
3410 2011-03-23 18:49:49 <Hiro_Protagonist> so is it essential that one engage in processor mining?
3411 2011-03-23 18:49:49 <molecular> I currently have to restart the node every couple of hours
3412 2011-03-23 18:49:51 <Meelu> still need to invest in quantum processors
3413 2011-03-23 18:50:03 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: no, CPU mining is a complete waste of electricity
3414 2011-03-23 18:50:07 <theorbtwo> molecular: Maybe you should join a pool?
3415 2011-03-23 18:50:09 <molecular> Hiro_Protagonist, no, that's not part of mining to build a block
3416 2011-03-23 18:50:14 <Hiro_Protagonist> what about GPU?
3417 2011-03-23 18:50:29 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: decent Radeon GPUs are effective
3418 2011-03-23 18:50:32 <molecular> theorbtwo, that's the easy way out. would like to strengthen the network
3419 2011-03-23 18:50:39 <Hiro_Protagonist> geforce 8500GT?
3420 2011-03-23 18:50:44 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: nvidia is garbage
3421 2011-03-23 18:50:53 <Hiro_Protagonist> lol not where I live
3422 2011-03-23 18:50:58 <Hiro_Protagonist> of course I didnt buy it for this
3423 2011-03-23 18:51:05 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: it's technologically garbage for mining
3424 2011-03-23 18:51:10 <theorbtwo> Hm, maybe I should check on that -- IIRC, I'm mining on an nvidia card at the moment.
3425 2011-03-23 18:51:26 Meelu has quit (Changing host)
3426 2011-03-23 18:51:26 Meelu has joined
3427 2011-03-23 18:51:30 <Hiro_Protagonist> luke-jr: I'll accept that characterization
3428 2011-03-23 18:51:36 <luke-jr> best nvidia gets 119 MH/s
3429 2011-03-23 18:51:48 <luke-jr> about the same as Radeon 5750
3430 2011-03-23 18:51:59 <Hiro_Protagonist> so, let us say I had a large number of people in need of a virtual currency for use in an open source virtual worlds platform
3431 2011-03-23 18:52:03 <luke-jr> Radeon 5970 gets up to 645 MH/s
3432 2011-03-23 18:52:11 <Hiro_Protagonist> is that a desireable usecase?
3433 2011-03-23 18:52:19 <molecular> 670 here ;) (radeon 5970)
3434 2011-03-23 18:53:00 Meelu has left ("Leaving")
3435 2011-03-23 18:53:01 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: no
3436 2011-03-23 18:53:01 <molecular> Hiro_Protagonist, yeah, why not
3437 2011-03-23 18:53:07 <molecular> lol
3438 2011-03-23 18:53:07 Meelu has joined
3439 2011-03-23 18:53:11 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: you can far more effectively issue a fiat currency
3440 2011-03-23 18:53:25 <molecular> but it could be backed by btc
3441 2011-03-23 18:53:30 <theorbtwo> Hiro_Protagonist: Note that bitcoin transactions take a miniumum of 10 minutes to clear.
3442 2011-03-23 18:53:36 <luke-jr> molecular: no need for a game currency to be backed
3443 2011-03-23 18:53:36 angryundead has joined
3444 2011-03-23 18:53:55 <Hiro_Protagonist> I've actively participated in the support and development of 'opensimulator' at http://opensimulator.org, and as an admin at their official test grid deployment at http://osgrid.org, four around four years now
3445 2011-03-23 18:53:56 <molecular> you need to get foreignt currency in/out of game currency, though
3446 2011-03-23 18:54:10 <luke-jr> molecular: no you don't
3447 2011-03-23 18:54:14 <angryundead> i'm trying to use the bitcoind client on ubuntu and not having much luck. does anyone have experience with doing that?
3448 2011-03-23 18:54:19 <Hiro_Protagonist> it's modelled on second life, more or less, or at least on the protocol used by secondlife
3449 2011-03-23 18:54:21 <molecular> hmm, ok, I was wrongly assuming that
3450 2011-03-23 18:54:24 <Hiro_Protagonist> it uses second life viewers
3451 2011-03-23 18:54:50 <Hiro_Protagonist> I'm considering the production of a region module in c#
3452 2011-03-23 18:54:59 <angryundead> @Hiro: I was just telling a buddy of mine that the whole bitcoin concept was like something that stephenson would come up with.
3453 2011-03-23 18:55:14 <luke-jr> molecular: even if you did, he could just run a market for trading bitcoins with game currency
3454 2011-03-23 18:55:23 <luke-jr> without backing the game currency by anything
3455 2011-03-23 18:55:24 <Hiro_Protagonist> possibly also some support via a web frontend that does grid-related things in php
3456 2011-03-23 18:55:40 Skintkingle has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3457 2011-03-23 18:55:44 <Hiro_Protagonist> angry: lol one of my heros that stephenson guy ;)
3458 2011-03-23 18:55:50 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: C# sucks kthx âº
3459 2011-03-23 18:56:14 <Hiro_Protagonist> LOL I couldn't agree more but that's what they wrote the damned thing in *shrugs*
3460 2011-03-23 18:56:16 <molecular> ok, changed my mind: not good usecase
3461 2011-03-23 18:56:42 moop has joined
3462 2011-03-23 18:56:49 <angryundead> i'm on a stephenson marathon actually. i've done snow crash and diamond age. i'm in the baroque cycle now. anyway, that's off topic really.
3463 2011-03-23 18:57:03 <Hiro_Protagonist> if I did this, we'd do a direct implementation of bitcoin, not exchange spacebux for it
3464 2011-03-23 18:57:19 <Hiro_Protagonist> that's a lot of unnecesary and potentially insecure machination for no real benefit
3465 2011-03-23 18:57:23 <jgarzik> The Mongoliad
3466 2011-03-23 18:58:32 <Hiro_Protagonist> Ok, so let us assume I wanted to give bitcoin a testdrive personally; how would you good peeps reccommend I get started?
3467 2011-03-23 18:59:32 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: buy a few bitcoins, and figure out something to do with them
3468 2011-03-23 18:59:40 hwolf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3469 2011-03-23 19:00:07 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3470 2011-03-23 19:00:07 <Hiro_Protagonist> luke-jr: I reckon that's where I'm stumped; where do I purchase bitcoins, and at what cost?
3471 2011-03-23 19:00:08 <molecular> can I tell bitcoin to accept no free tx at all?
3472 2011-03-23 19:00:13 <molecular> -limitfreerelay=0 ?
3473 2011-03-23 19:00:33 <Blitzboom> interesting discussion at http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/g9sdr/bitcoins_a_decentralized_and_anonymous_currency/
3474 2011-03-23 19:01:14 <Blitzboom> Hiro_Protagonist: http://www.weusecoins.com/getting-started.php
3475 2011-03-23 19:01:24 <AmpEater> ^ excellent video
3476 2011-03-23 19:01:36 <luke-jr> molecular: you can merge my policy branch
3477 2011-03-23 19:01:42 <luke-jr> Hiro_Protagonist: from anyone with some
3478 2011-03-23 19:01:46 revvie has joined
3479 2011-03-23 19:02:30 <AmpEater> hir_protagonist I'll send you your first bitcoin
3480 2011-03-23 19:02:44 <AmpEater> post an address
3481 2011-03-23 19:03:01 <jgarzik> molecular: are you interested in patching the source? That's what slush did temporarily: if (nFees < CENT) return false;
3482 2011-03-23 19:03:09 <jgarzik> molecular: in ::AcceptToMemoryPool()
3483 2011-03-23 19:03:15 <Hiro_Protagonist> Hey y'all have been damned helpful, such that I have a lot to digest :)
3484 2011-03-23 19:03:27 <theorbtwo> Hiro_Protagonist: Is this some sort of distributed game?
3485 2011-03-23 19:03:36 <Hiro_Protagonist> I'll hang out on channel because I already hang out on a dozen others pretty much around the clock
3486 2011-03-23 19:03:46 <Hiro_Protagonist> I'm reading up on these links and will watch the video
3487 2011-03-23 19:03:53 <luke-jr> jgarzik: lame
3488 2011-03-23 19:03:59 <Hiro_Protagonist> as soon as I have gathered a clue, I'll brb
3489 2011-03-23 19:04:00 <luke-jr> my fees are cheaper
3490 2011-03-23 19:04:04 <theorbtwo> If so, I could very much see basing it on bitcoin -- either as a seperate network running the same protocol, or just as normal bitcoin.
3491 2011-03-23 19:04:17 <molecular> jgarzik, in main.cpp?
3492 2011-03-23 19:04:20 <theorbtwo> If it's not designed to be distributed, I don't see much advantage to using bitcoin.
3493 2011-03-23 19:04:39 <eltigre> someone could propose bitcoins as an official currency in some of the new constitutions in the middle east
3494 2011-03-23 19:04:41 <Hiro_Protagonist> theorb: it's more of a technology platform. It's gamelike; I run a hosting company that hosts those things exclusively. It doesn't do half bad.
3495 2011-03-23 19:04:50 <Hiro_Protagonist> it's highly distributed and very scalable
3496 2011-03-23 19:05:02 <Hiro_Protagonist> though it doesn't really have any formal gaming rules
3497 2011-03-23 19:05:47 <Hiro_Protagonist> fully 95% of the half rack or so that runs opensims at my company are industrial training or other educational concerns
3498 2011-03-23 19:05:48 <theorbtwo> Bitcoin, OTOH, is very much against the sort of economy a game like WoW has, which relies upon massive inflation -- the game "prints" money with almost every mob killed.
3499 2011-03-23 19:05:51 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3500 2011-03-23 19:06:53 <theorbtwo> Hiro_Protagonist: I mean distributed in as much as there are multiple servers, run by people who do not neccessarly trust each-other to have servers that follow the rules.
3501 2011-03-23 19:07:44 <molecular> jgarzik, how can I output the current size of my tx cache?
3502 2011-03-23 19:08:57 psymin has joined
3503 2011-03-23 19:10:36 moop has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3504 2011-03-23 19:12:01 hwolf has joined
3505 2011-03-23 19:12:14 <luke-jr> molecular: I have a branch for that too :P
3506 2011-03-23 19:12:47 <luke-jr> pull git://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin.git txinfo
3507 2011-03-23 19:14:16 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: poke
3508 2011-03-23 19:14:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: poke
3509 2011-03-23 19:14:39 <luke-jr> jgarzik: poke
3510 2011-03-23 19:14:49 <Diablo-D3> what
3511 2011-03-23 19:14:57 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: mind if I enable CIA on your miner's repo?
3512 2011-03-23 19:15:05 <Diablo-D3> uh
3513 2011-03-23 19:15:12 <Diablo-D3> you do realize Im the one that brought CIA here, right?
3514 2011-03-23 19:15:15 <Hiro_Protagonist> theorb: that is (or can be) exactly the case. The software comprises a 'grid service' which is actually six services that can be differentiated and run on seperate physical hardware servers; and a 'region service' which serves virtual realestate, which includes a series of modules for such things as physics simulation, scripting, and content preparation ala second life. In the case of OSGrid, the grid services
3515 2011-03-23 19:15:15 <Hiro_Protagonist> are the prinicipal offering, along with several public 'welcome area' regions where a lot of testing, socializing, and evangelism occur; but these are only several of the several thousand such regions on the grid, the balance of which are hosted on diverse computers out on the 'net, by approximately anonymous individuals.
3516 2011-03-23 19:15:25 <molecular> luke-jr, merge failed
3517 2011-03-23 19:15:32 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: so I can?
3518 2011-03-23 19:15:43 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: ... I already use the github hooks for CIA.
3519 2011-03-23 19:15:54 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: it doesn't show up hereâ¦
3520 2011-03-23 19:16:00 <Meelu> i know a person who will be implementing this feature in there file hosting service, one similiar to rapidshare.com will also pay users commision with bitcoin too good idea right>?
3521 2011-03-23 19:16:04 <Hiro_Protagonist> sorry for the OT y'all, I didnt really come to pump opensim today
3522 2011-03-23 19:16:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, poke
3523 2011-03-23 19:16:13 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, is this facebook?
3524 2011-03-23 19:16:16 <molecular> luke-jr, git is still a bit of a secret for me
3525 2011-03-23 19:16:17 <Diablo-D3> [10:00:46] <CIA-96> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8de0e88 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix pom.xml up a little, increase error log buffer size - http://bit.ly/ehOfHU
3526 2011-03-23 19:16:22 <Diablo-D3> for example
3527 2011-03-23 19:16:32 <Diablo-D3> so, yes, it does show up here..
3528 2011-03-23 19:16:32 <Hiro_Protagonist> git freaking rox, esp in combination with github.com
3529 2011-03-23 19:17:00 <necrodearia> What is a satoshi (unit of measurement)?
3530 2011-03-23 19:17:42 <Diablo-D3> necrodearia: a measurement of how badly written code is
3531 2011-03-23 19:17:46 <necrodearia> mm
3532 2011-03-23 19:18:52 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, did you want something?
3533 2011-03-23 19:18:53 <molecular> Meelu, using bitcoin is always a good idea :p
3534 2011-03-23 19:19:14 <Meelu> yep
3535 2011-03-23 19:19:17 <luke-jr> necrodearia: a raw bitcoin unit
3536 2011-03-23 19:19:25 <molecular> hm, the spammer stopped again
3537 2011-03-23 19:19:27 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: can I do CIA for bitcoin-alt?
3538 2011-03-23 19:19:39 <phantomcircuit> a what
3539 2011-03-23 19:19:46 <jrabbit> cia.vc
3540 2011-03-23 19:19:57 <luke-jr> [13:27:54] <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm master * rc3f1400 / init.cpp : catch SIGINT, SIGHUP and SIGSEGV and shutdown cleanly - http://bit.ly/dMgm9X
3541 2011-03-23 19:19:58 <luke-jr> liek that
3542 2011-03-23 19:20:04 <jrabbit> hy can't I click that in terminal Apple?
3543 2011-03-23 19:20:05 <phantomcircuit> oh
3544 2011-03-23 19:20:06 <phantomcircuit> sure
3545 2011-03-23 19:20:14 <jrabbit> is .vc not a real domain to them
3546 2011-03-23 19:20:16 Omni has quit (AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Read error: Operation timed out)
3547 2011-03-23 19:20:16 <jrabbit> fuck >:(
3548 2011-03-23 19:20:47 <molecular> luke-jr, how can I just _look_ at your txinfo branch (not gitorious account)
3549 2011-03-23 19:20:48 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: done
3550 2011-03-23 19:21:00 <necrodearia> gah, I missed the slight of hand at http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/630/Bit-Coin-or-Bitcoin -- how is that possible?
3551 2011-03-23 19:21:22 <luke-jr> molecular: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/608d2aa63b3f33cca7685dde98f218e2e72c830d
3552 2011-03-23 19:21:47 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc
3553 2011-03-23 19:21:47 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: btw http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoin-alt.git
3554 2011-03-23 19:21:48 <genjix> just added comments to there
3555 2011-03-23 19:22:18 klugez has left ()
3556 2011-03-23 19:22:19 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: btw, do NOT use cia's git support
3557 2011-03-23 19:22:27 <Diablo-D3> I dont think you can with github anyhow
3558 2011-03-23 19:22:32 <jrabbit> huh
3559 2011-03-23 19:22:33 <Diablo-D3> you have to use github itself to use cia
3560 2011-03-23 19:22:34 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: nfc what you mean
3561 2011-03-23 19:22:38 <luke-jr> no, you don't.
3562 2011-03-23 19:22:48 <Diablo-D3> yes you do
3563 2011-03-23 19:22:51 <genjix> you do
3564 2011-03-23 19:22:55 <jrabbit> huh
3565 2011-03-23 19:22:55 <Diablo-D3> you cant add the hooks script to git on github
3566 2011-03-23 19:23:00 <genjix> you enable it in the control panel
3567 2011-03-23 19:23:04 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: don't need to
3568 2011-03-23 19:23:05 <Diablo-D3> yes, exactly
3569 2011-03-23 19:23:06 bob__ has joined
3570 2011-03-23 19:23:15 <genjix> you click settings & enable CIA
3571 2011-03-23 19:23:16 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dude, its a fucking checkmark box on the control panel
3572 2011-03-23 19:23:23 <luke-jr> yawn
3573 2011-03-23 19:23:24 <Diablo-D3> quit being a dumbass
3574 2011-03-23 19:23:25 <Hiro_Protagonist> lol
3575 2011-03-23 19:23:37 <jrabbit> https://github.com/github/github-services/blob/master/services/cia.rb
3576 2011-03-23 19:23:51 <Hiro_Protagonist> :3
3577 2011-03-23 19:24:05 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: why is it you're always like months behindme
3578 2011-03-23 19:24:11 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, kids good
3579 2011-03-23 19:24:13 <Diablo-D3> or hell, even years
3580 2011-03-23 19:24:18 <Hiro_Protagonist> y'all are a hoot, you'd fit right in on my reg channels lmao
3581 2011-03-23 19:24:21 <Diablo-D3> I knew about CIA when scanlime created it
3582 2011-03-23 19:24:30 <Diablo-D3> and that was like half a billion years ago
3583 2011-03-23 19:24:44 <xelister> dinozaurs used it to plan evacuation
3584 2011-03-23 19:24:55 <Ad0> wonder if the new geforce will beat the current AMDs
3585 2011-03-23 19:24:56 <luke-jr> http://cia.vc/stats/author/luke-jr 951 messages since the first one, 7.14 years ago
3586 2011-03-23 19:25:00 <Ad0> when it comes to number crunching
3587 2011-03-23 19:25:03 <jrabbit> I walked both ways uphill in the snow once
3588 2011-03-23 19:25:07 <xelister> Ad0: doubt it
3589 2011-03-23 19:25:11 <luke-jr> http://cia.vc/stats/author/Diablo-D3 52 messages since the first one, 7.17 years ago
3590 2011-03-23 19:25:13 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: pwnt
3591 2011-03-23 19:25:22 <luke-jr> you got a whole .03 years on me
3592 2011-03-23 19:25:35 <jrabbit> http://cia.vc/stats/author/jrabbit lol
3593 2011-03-23 19:25:36 <quellhorst> whats the current difficulty?
3594 2011-03-23 19:25:37 <luke-jr> that's like 10 days
3595 2011-03-23 19:25:39 <xelister> luke-jr: quick! say that 0.03 in tonal
3596 2011-03-23 19:25:44 <jrabbit> it has paranoid linux refrence materials
3597 2011-03-23 19:25:48 <luke-jr> xelister: it's close enough :P
3598 2011-03-23 19:25:53 <luke-jr> .07
3599 2011-03-23 19:25:59 <xelister> ;)
3600 2011-03-23 19:26:21 Zarutian has joined
3601 2011-03-23 19:26:22 * necrodearia checks out osgrid and opensim
3602 2011-03-23 19:26:37 <xelister> luke-jr: I will pay you 5 BTC if you write 592.631 in tonal in next 10 seconds
3603 2011-03-23 19:26:38 <xelister> 9
3604 2011-03-23 19:26:40 <xelister> 8
3605 2011-03-23 19:26:45 <xelister> 7..6..5..4..
3606 2011-03-23 19:26:53 <theorbtwo> Hiro_Protagonist: Sorry. Was busy. Using either bitcoin or something bitcoin-like to move money between the various servers seems about right -- or, contrarywise, to keep player's balances in tagged accounts of theirs, and transfer between them.
3607 2011-03-23 19:26:55 <xelister> 3..2..1.. well... not so intuitive after all? ;)
3608 2011-03-23 19:27:09 <luke-jr> xelister: I just opened the channel when you said that n00b
3609 2011-03-23 19:27:20 <xelister> sure =)
3610 2011-03-23 19:27:24 <Hiro_Protagonist> no worries theorbtwo, I do asynch pretty good ;)
3611 2011-03-23 19:27:29 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: btw, no
3612 2011-03-23 19:27:32 <necrodearia> Hiro_Protagonist, ooh, nice, is OpenSim similar to Second Life?
3613 2011-03-23 19:27:32 wood_ has joined
3614 2011-03-23 19:27:33 <jrabbit> Hiro_Protagonist: bitcoin might be a bit over the top for a centralized game which is what you're talking about no?
3615 2011-03-23 19:27:36 <Diablo-D3> I have multiple identities on cia
3616 2011-03-23 19:27:40 <theorbtwo> I think bitcoin is something to look at closely for you, but not neccessarly *use*.
3617 2011-03-23 19:27:49 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: cia doesnt merge identities
3618 2011-03-23 19:28:02 <Diablo-D3> Im not even aware of all the places Im on there
3619 2011-03-23 19:28:21 <necrodearia> apparently
3620 2011-03-23 19:28:29 <necrodearia> Out of the box, OpenSimulator can be used to simulate virtual environments similar to Second LifeÂ, given that it supports the core of SL's messaging protocol.
3621 2011-03-23 19:28:33 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: mind pushing something to bitcoin-alt to put Diablo-D3 to rest?
3622 2011-03-23 19:28:34 * jrabbit wishes some of his projects were big enough to merit cia integration :P
3623 2011-03-23 19:28:37 <xelister> necrodearia: cool
3624 2011-03-23 19:28:45 <xelister> necrodearia: btw, what is the "Â" character
3625 2011-03-23 19:28:51 <necrodearia> no idea
3626 2011-03-23 19:28:52 <Diablo-D3> xelister: invalid unicode.
3627 2011-03-23 19:28:52 <necrodearia> oh
3628 2011-03-23 19:28:53 <necrodearia> TM
3629 2011-03-23 19:29:06 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: what are you even talking about?
3630 2011-03-23 19:29:12 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, uh ok
3631 2011-03-23 19:29:51 <necrodearia> Hiro_Protagonist, Does OpenSim support or make use of Bitcoin?
3632 2011-03-23 19:30:34 <necrodearia> 0 results at google for site:opensimulator.org bitcoin
3633 2011-03-23 19:30:35 <Hiro_Protagonist> necro: not *yet* :3
3634 2011-03-23 19:30:38 <molecular> luke-jr, thanks for link... "printf("AcceptToMemoryPoolUnchecked(): size %lu\n", mapTransactions.size());" <- mapTransactions the tx cache?
3635 2011-03-23 19:30:42 <necrodearia> Hiro_Protagonist, mm, but you will soon?
3636 2011-03-23 19:30:51 <Hiro_Protagonist> soon is a relative and mushy term
3637 2011-03-23 19:30:55 <necrodearia> oh?
3638 2011-03-23 19:30:56 <necrodearia> how come?
3639 2011-03-23 19:30:59 <Hiro_Protagonist> but I am investigating the prospect
3640 2011-03-23 19:31:03 <necrodearia> mm
3641 2011-03-23 19:31:19 <Hiro_Protagonist> because /me is a newb to bitcoin ;)
3642 2011-03-23 19:31:19 <necrodearia> Hiro_Protagonist, May I pm you?
3643 2011-03-23 19:31:23 <necrodearia> makes sense ^_^
3644 2011-03-23 19:31:25 <Hiro_Protagonist> certainly
3645 2011-03-23 19:33:41 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
3646 2011-03-23 19:33:42 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
3647 2011-03-23 19:33:42 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
3648 2011-03-23 19:33:43 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
3649 2011-03-23 19:33:44 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
3650 2011-03-23 19:33:54 <genjix> added comments :)
3651 2011-03-23 19:34:42 wood_ is now known as wood
3652 2011-03-23 19:35:08 <jrabbit> 1.4 bitconis to linux thorvals for git?
3653 2011-03-23 19:35:11 <jrabbit> :P
3654 2011-03-23 19:35:17 <jrabbit> *ds
3655 2011-03-23 19:36:15 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what is it?
3656 2011-03-23 19:36:51 <jrabbit> "Secure build and update process" :P
3657 2011-03-23 19:37:41 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
3658 2011-03-23 19:37:57 <phantomcircuit> <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: mind pushing something to bitcoin-alt to put Diablo-D3 to rest?
3659 2011-03-23 19:38:17 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: eh, I meant anything⦠:p
3660 2011-03-23 19:38:27 <phantomcircuit> oh
3661 2011-03-23 19:38:30 <phantomcircuit> about what?
3662 2011-03-23 19:38:50 <phantomcircuit> well sure one sec ill push a horribly broken sqlalchemy branch
3663 2011-03-23 19:39:26 wood has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3664 2011-03-23 19:39:59 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, k i pushed https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/commit/05407cf9a5e4be32a65b0e2e1153caf6db213a8f
3665 2011-03-23 19:41:12 <luke-jr> err, I meant push a commit, nto a whole new branch XD
3666 2011-03-23 19:41:32 larsivi has joined
3667 2011-03-23 19:43:42 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, branch was already there
3668 2011-03-23 19:43:50 <phantomcircuit> you mean push something to master?
3669 2011-03-23 19:45:15 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/commit/a334f35339643e1aee21fd5e29a39de88e8aa69d
3670 2011-03-23 19:45:17 <phantomcircuit> like dat
3671 2011-03-23 19:46:37 <necrodearia> genjix, I almost missed your site... thanks for repeating it several times. However, I accidentally /cleared and cat jumped on my keyboard and deleted my log files. Can you repeat it one more time please?
3672 2011-03-23 19:46:56 <Meelu> im using the efficient miner for bitcoinpool, i get Traceback (most recent call last):
3673 2011-03-23 19:46:57 <Meelu> File "poclbm-mod.py", line 24, in <module>
3674 2011-03-23 19:46:57 <Meelu> pyopencl.LogicError: clGetPlatformIDs failed: invalid/unknown error code
3675 2011-03-23 19:47:31 <jrabbit> Meelu: do you have a CPU? :P
3676 2011-03-23 19:47:51 <Meelu> lol yes but my graphics card doesn't have opencl support if that matters
3677 2011-03-23 19:47:54 <jrabbit> Meelu: do you have the latest pyopencl?
3678 2011-03-23 19:48:08 <jrabbit> it might... but it shouldn't
3679 2011-03-23 19:48:48 <x6763> lol @ necrodearia
3680 2011-03-23 19:48:53 <Meelu> i dont think so
3681 2011-03-23 19:48:59 <Meelu> i havent used python on windows machine before
3682 2011-03-23 19:49:11 <Meelu> just on my linux server
3683 2011-03-23 19:49:58 <jrabbit> Meelu: so you got it off pypi or something pyopencl related?
3684 2011-03-23 19:50:06 <jrabbit> ought to be recent enough
3685 2011-03-23 19:50:39 <Meelu> dunno mate i just downloaded http://bitcoinpool.com/poclbm-mod.zip
3686 2011-03-23 19:50:40 <necrodearia> genjix, btw, do you establish any profits from that site?
3687 2011-03-23 19:50:41 <jrabbit> Meelu: can you get the error?
3688 2011-03-23 19:50:58 <jrabbit> Meelu: oh its a fork?
3689 2011-03-23 19:51:16 bob__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3690 2011-03-23 19:51:18 <jrabbit> oh jesus
3691 2011-03-23 19:51:32 <Meelu> trying to
3692 2011-03-23 19:51:32 vclass has joined
3693 2011-03-23 19:51:40 <jrabbit> wtf they have tcl in there for
3694 2011-03-23 19:51:51 <Meelu> duno
3695 2011-03-23 19:51:56 <jrabbit> and distributing a pyc?
3696 2011-03-23 19:52:09 <Meelu> its supposed to be100% efficient
3697 2011-03-23 19:52:10 <jrabbit> who made this POC
3698 2011-03-23 19:52:36 Bosma has joined
3699 2011-03-23 19:52:38 <jrabbit> atleast it has a setup.py....
3700 2011-03-23 19:53:03 <jrabbit> Meelu: lol 100% efficeent? lol
3701 2011-03-23 19:53:13 <Meelu> i should have put quotes
3702 2011-03-23 19:53:31 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3703 2011-03-23 19:54:12 <jrabbit> oh is the benefit this "askrate" thing?
3704 2011-03-23 19:54:32 <jrabbit> the mainline poclbm uses longpoll...
3705 2011-03-23 19:54:39 <jrabbit> which seems to do the same thing
3706 2011-03-23 19:54:40 Bosma has quit (Client Quit)
3707 2011-03-23 19:55:12 <jrabbit> pyopencl==2011.1beta2
3708 2011-03-23 19:55:13 <jrabbit> hm
3709 2011-03-23 19:55:14 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, distributing .pyc is common actually
3710 2011-03-23 19:55:14 <ArtForz> yeahrgl
3711 2011-03-23 19:55:17 Bosma has joined
3712 2011-03-23 19:55:18 <phantomcircuit> dumb but common
3713 2011-03-23 19:55:31 <jrabbit> he claims to have PyOpenCL 0.92...
3714 2011-03-23 19:55:35 <jrabbit> hmmm
3715 2011-03-23 19:55:52 basro has left ("Leaving")
3716 2011-03-23 19:56:15 <jrabbit> thats from 2009!
3717 2011-03-23 19:56:21 <jrabbit> er .90 is
3718 2011-03-23 19:56:45 <jrabbit> yeah that version is almost a year old
3719 2011-03-23 19:56:46 <phantomcircuit> 0.92 is the latest on gentoo
3720 2011-03-23 19:57:01 <phantomcircuit> lol and it's marked unstable
3721 2011-03-23 19:57:13 <jrabbit> lol
3722 2011-03-23 19:57:22 Bosma has left ()
3723 2011-03-23 19:57:33 <jrabbit> Meelu: I wouldn't blame the stupid/evil packager yet
3724 2011-03-23 19:57:41 <jrabbit> could be an old pyopencl
3725 2011-03-23 19:57:48 Bosma has joined
3726 2011-03-23 19:58:02 <Meelu> maybe my command sucks
3727 2011-03-23 19:58:05 <Meelu> leme show you
3728 2011-03-23 19:58:05 <jrabbit> build the new one if you can stand it
3729 2011-03-23 19:58:17 <jrabbit> could be user error :P
3730 2011-03-23 19:58:45 <Meelu> poclbm-mod.exe --user=lol --pa
3731 2011-03-23 19:58:45 <Meelu> ss=lol --host=bitcoinpool.com --port=8334
3732 2011-03-23 19:59:13 <Meelu> that should work right
3733 2011-03-23 19:59:22 <jrabbit> yes.....
3734 2011-03-23 19:59:26 <Meelu> poclbm-mod.exe--help works
3735 2011-03-23 19:59:29 <Meelu> but this dont
3736 2011-03-23 19:59:44 <jrabbit> of course not....
3737 2011-03-23 19:59:52 <jrabbit> help doesn't invoke opencl.
3738 2011-03-23 20:00:00 <jrabbit> wait
3739 2011-03-23 20:00:10 <jrabbit> you're not passign a device
3740 2011-03-23 20:00:25 <jrabbit> give it -d0
3741 2011-03-23 20:01:24 <jrabbit> platform = cl.get_platforms()[0]
3742 2011-03-23 20:01:27 <jrabbit> this is failing
3743 2011-03-23 20:01:37 <Meelu> not working stil but..
3744 2011-03-23 20:01:58 <jrabbit> if options.host == 'mining.bitcoin.cz' or options.host == '178.79.147.99':
3745 2011-03-23 20:02:01 <Aciid> ami-117a4d65
3746 2011-03-23 20:02:01 <Aciid> ebs
3747 2011-03-23 20:02:01 <jrabbit> Lol what an asshole
3748 2011-03-23 20:02:02 <Aciid> 833274755715/cpuminer
3749 2011-03-23 20:02:03 <Aciid> hahah
3750 2011-03-23 20:02:06 <Aciid> has someone tried that
3751 2011-03-23 20:02:23 <jrabbit> he errors on mining.bitcoin.cz
3752 2011-03-23 20:02:32 <jrabbit> that mgiht not be malicious but it seems assholeish
3753 2011-03-23 20:02:39 <jrabbit> esp with many many pools outthere
3754 2011-03-23 20:02:46 <jrabbit> Meelu: try the vanilla poclbm
3755 2011-03-23 20:03:04 <jrabbit> there mgiht be a similar py2exe bundle somewhere
3756 2011-03-23 20:03:13 <jrabbit> I don't trust this modified one at all.
3757 2011-03-23 20:03:20 <Meelu> is this it? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0
3758 2011-03-23 20:03:31 <jrabbit> that and poclbm has been modified sicne then extensively
3759 2011-03-23 20:03:44 <jrabbit> oh he makes his own py2exe bundles
3760 2011-03-23 20:03:45 <jrabbit> yeah
3761 2011-03-23 20:04:50 <Meelu> thanks
3762 2011-03-23 20:05:03 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3763 2011-03-23 20:05:24 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3764 2011-03-23 20:05:33 <jrabbit> that pool might not support long polling yet
3765 2011-03-23 20:05:44 <jrabbit> but poclbm shoudl deal with it gracefully
3766 2011-03-23 20:06:14 <jrabbit> Meelu: lemme know if it fails then you can file an issue on github and on the forums
3767 2011-03-23 20:06:34 <jrabbit> windows mgiht not support opencl on the cpu anyways I don't know
3768 2011-03-23 20:06:49 vclass has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3769 2011-03-23 20:06:52 <sipa> why would you want to do opencl on cpu?
3770 2011-03-23 20:07:36 <jrabbit> ask Meelu
3771 2011-03-23 20:07:37 <jrabbit> :p
3772 2011-03-23 20:07:59 <Meelu> dunno i thought the script might not support cpu i might have got the wrong one lol
3773 2011-03-23 20:08:13 <sipa> poclbm should work on cpu's
3774 2011-03-23 20:08:22 <sipa> at least, earlier versions did
3775 2011-03-23 20:08:27 <jrabbit> it does.
3776 2011-03-23 20:09:17 <phantomcircuit> TypeError: SQLite DateTime type only accepts Python datetime and date objects as input.
3777 2011-03-23 20:09:18 <phantomcircuit> ARGH
3778 2011-03-23 20:09:30 <jrabbit> :D
3779 2011-03-23 20:09:48 <phantomcircuit> what's the timestamp in the addr packet used for
3780 2011-03-23 20:10:04 <ArtForz> RTFS
3781 2011-03-23 20:10:10 <phantomcircuit> lulz
3782 2011-03-23 20:10:16 <phantomcircuit> datetime.now()
3783 2011-03-23 20:10:19 <phantomcircuit> inb4explosion
3784 2011-03-23 20:10:32 <jrabbit> ?
3785 2011-03-23 20:10:35 <Meelu> jrabbit, i think im just going to try get it up later i havent had much sleep brains not processing well right now
3786 2011-03-23 20:10:52 <jrabbit> oh thats a js only thing thats why lololol
3787 2011-03-23 20:11:00 <phantomcircuit> python
3788 2011-03-23 20:11:07 <phantomcircuit> i guess it's datetime.datetime.now()
3789 2011-03-23 20:11:08 <jrabbit> no its not
3790 2011-03-23 20:11:11 <jrabbit> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'now'
3791 2011-03-23 20:11:12 <jrabbit> :P
3792 2011-03-23 20:11:23 <jrabbit> yes I guess it is
3793 2011-03-23 20:13:49 <jrabbit> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/1930238/Limewire-Being-Sued-For-75-Trillion
3794 2011-03-23 20:15:46 jefvel has joined
3795 2011-03-23 20:15:57 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lulz
3796 2011-03-23 20:15:57 ousado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3797 2011-03-23 20:16:18 ousado has joined
3798 2011-03-23 20:16:41 <jrabbit> thats more than the global gdp.
3799 2011-03-23 20:18:24 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3800 2011-03-23 20:18:30 <phantomcircuit> several times global gdp actually
3801 2011-03-23 20:19:05 <phantomcircuit> also
3802 2011-03-23 20:19:07 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked
3803 2011-03-23 20:19:09 <phantomcircuit> USA
3804 2011-03-23 20:20:16 <phantomcircuit> sqlalchemy.orm.exc.MultipleResultsFound: Multiple rows were found for one()
3805 2011-03-23 20:20:18 <phantomcircuit> crap
3806 2011-03-23 20:20:37 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: i woudlnt' think we were so high....
3807 2011-03-23 20:20:47 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: amybe its biased by averages.
3808 2011-03-23 20:20:57 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, stuff is significantly cheaper on average
3809 2011-03-23 20:21:13 <jrabbit> can that be normalized or used as a median instead?
3810 2011-03-23 20:21:20 <Hiro_Protagonist> Ok so I created an account at Mt. Gox
3811 2011-03-23 20:21:25 <phantomcircuit> the median is more or less the same
3812 2011-03-23 20:21:29 <Hiro_Protagonist> how do I know the address?
3813 2011-03-23 20:21:33 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: no GDP/hr
3814 2011-03-23 20:21:50 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, hmm?
3815 2011-03-23 20:22:00 <jrabbit> the gdp/hr figure
3816 2011-03-23 20:22:04 <phantomcircuit> oh
3817 2011-03-23 20:22:07 <Hiro_Protagonist> is it just the email address I gave when I created the account?
3818 2011-03-23 20:22:09 <phantomcircuit> im sure it's basically the same
3819 2011-03-23 20:22:11 <jrabbit> I donno what you though I meant
3820 2011-03-23 20:22:14 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: no way
3821 2011-03-23 20:22:22 <phantomcircuit> real goods in the US are substantially cheaper in the US than europe
3822 2011-03-23 20:22:28 <jrabbit> the average income is way higher than the median.
3823 2011-03-23 20:22:37 <jrabbit> are you tripping balls?
3824 2011-03-23 20:22:43 <phantomcircuit> lol no
3825 2011-03-23 20:23:09 <phantomcircuit> the wealth disparity in the US is statistically only slightly worse than it is in most of europe
3826 2011-03-23 20:23:19 <phantomcircuit> and it's order of magnitude better than in developing countries
3827 2011-03-23 20:23:26 <jrabbit> dude
3828 2011-03-23 20:23:29 <jrabbit> wtf are you smoking
3829 2011-03-23 20:23:41 <jrabbit> $43460 per year (US dollars per year) (2009)
3830 2011-03-23 20:23:43 <jrabbit> versus
3831 2011-03-23 20:23:52 <jrabbit> $33190 per year (US dollars per year) (2009)
3832 2011-03-23 20:23:56 <jrabbit> ^median
3833 2011-03-23 20:24:03 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3834 2011-03-23 20:24:23 <jrabbit> and thats of employed people.
3835 2011-03-23 20:24:23 <phantomcircuit> you've only got half the information there
3836 2011-03-23 20:24:36 <jrabbit> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+income+USA
3837 2011-03-23 20:24:41 <phantomcircuit> lol
3838 2011-03-23 20:24:44 <phantomcircuit> re-read what i said
3839 2011-03-23 20:24:55 <jrabbit> halkf the wages yes
3840 2011-03-23 20:24:59 <phantomcircuit> http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/phony-web-certificates-issued-google-yahoo-skype-others-032311
3841 2011-03-23 20:25:02 <phantomcircuit> rofl
3842 2011-03-23 20:25:08 <jrabbit> but still the hours worked would not change much I don't think
3843 2011-03-23 20:25:17 andi_ has joined
3844 2011-03-23 20:25:29 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, no im mean, the wealth disparity in the US is only slightly worse than in most of europe
3845 2011-03-23 20:25:35 <jrabbit> so?
3846 2011-03-23 20:25:50 <jrabbit> how is that relevant
3847 2011-03-23 20:26:15 <phantomcircuit> the real median income in the US is substantially higher than it is in most of the world (including europe)
3848 2011-03-23 20:26:30 <Hiro_Protagonist> AmpEater, still wanna fire some coin over to me?
3849 2011-03-23 20:26:45 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: bullshit
3850 2011-03-23 20:27:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: you here?
3851 2011-03-23 20:27:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea almost done with upnp
3852 2011-03-23 20:27:27 <BlueMatt> god so close
3853 2011-03-23 20:27:35 <AmpEater> yeah, sure
3854 2011-03-23 20:27:47 <AmpEater> I like giving people their first coin
3855 2011-03-23 20:27:50 eltigre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3856 2011-03-23 20:27:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: i was wondering if you could add spentpertxout and/or walletdump to your nightly builds
3857 2011-03-23 20:27:53 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I can't pull up wages data that WA has for the US...
3858 2011-03-23 20:27:56 <AmpEater> lets see the address
3859 2011-03-23 20:28:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: sure, links and explanations?
3860 2011-03-23 20:28:32 Necr0s has joined
3861 2011-03-23 20:28:51 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, find me some median incomes for european countries and i can show you
3862 2011-03-23 20:29:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: spentpertxout is here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/123
3863 2011-03-23 20:29:06 <phantomcircuit> how about switzerland?
3864 2011-03-23 20:29:07 <molecular> AmpEater, I like giving people their first coins, too. They are genuinely thankfull :p
3865 2011-03-23 20:29:42 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I just said I can't the best I can pullup for france without digging too hard is just the GDP per capital
3866 2011-03-23 20:29:45 <jrabbit> *-l
3867 2011-03-23 20:29:55 <sipa> walletdump depends on it, and does exporting/importing of keys in bitkeys format: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/walletdump
3868 2011-03-23 20:29:56 <jrabbit> which isn't the same measurement as wages.
3869 2011-03-23 20:31:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: so wait, why exactly is spentpertxout required for walletdump?
3870 2011-03-23 20:31:10 <Meelu> does the encryption level change as the years progress? if not why hasn't a feature been added so the years progress the harder the encryption is?
3871 2011-03-23 20:31:53 <Meelu> like double with moors law
3872 2011-03-23 20:31:58 <ArtForz> what's the point?
3873 2011-03-23 20:31:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: imagine i send some coins to you, and i send the change of that transaction to someone else, and then i import your key which i sent the first part to
3874 2011-03-23 20:32:12 <Meelu> so it will always be the same difficulty to crack
3875 2011-03-23 20:32:14 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, GDP nominal per capita for switzerland was 67074 USD in 2010, adjusted for cost of living that is 41765 Intl $
3876 2011-03-23 20:32:15 <Meelu> i mean generate
3877 2011-03-23 20:32:16 Bth8 has joined
3878 2011-03-23 20:32:19 <Meelu> ArtForz,
3879 2011-03-23 20:32:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah
3880 2011-03-23 20:32:32 <ArtForz> our weakest link is ecdsa256, wich effectively gives 128 bit symmertic equivalent security
3881 2011-03-23 20:32:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: in that case i end up with a transaction which is only partially spent, something which can not be represented in the current db format
3882 2011-03-23 20:33:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: the update to the wallet format was written by satoshi by the way, and forwarded by gavin to me
3883 2011-03-23 20:33:09 <Meelu> i mean it should always increase with moores law, it just opens up to exploitation in the future
3884 2011-03-23 20:33:10 <ArtForz> should be good for at least a few decades
3885 2011-03-23 20:33:10 <BlueMatt> sipa: can it not be implemented as two txes?
3886 2011-03-23 20:33:17 <ArtForz> no it shouldnt
3887 2011-03-23 20:33:37 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: GDP isn't reliable.
3888 2011-03-23 20:33:41 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, which means the median income in switzerland would have to be 33 190 / (41 765 / 67 074) = 53 302.6711 to be equivalent to the median us income
3889 2011-03-23 20:33:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: I really want to keep -patched completely compatible with mainline
3890 2011-03-23 20:33:54 ousado has quit (Changing host)
3891 2011-03-23 20:33:54 ousado has joined
3892 2011-03-23 20:33:56 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: the median income IS NOT BASED ON GDP
3893 2011-03-23 20:33:58 <ArtForz> when multi-kilo-qbit quantum computers become feasible, pretty much *any* ecdsa will be fucked
3894 2011-03-23 20:34:04 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3895 2011-03-23 20:34:04 <BlueMatt> though I guess your patch doesnt break much...
3896 2011-03-23 20:34:11 <jrabbit> its based on real wages from the BLS phantomcircuit
3897 2011-03-23 20:34:12 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, i was only using those numbers to get the adjustment for cost of living
3898 2011-03-23 20:34:33 <Meelu> ArtForz, i assume quantum processors don't run on magic but electricity
3899 2011-03-23 20:34:47 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, every dollar earned in switzerland buys you 0.622670483 worth of stuff compared to a dollar earned in the US
3900 2011-03-23 20:34:48 <Meelu> no one seems to think about that
3901 2011-03-23 20:34:52 <ArtForz> actually, they kinda do run on magic :P
3902 2011-03-23 20:34:54 <jrabbit> oh
3903 2011-03-23 20:34:56 <jrabbit> ooooh
3904 2011-03-23 20:35:00 <sipa> in special corner cases such as the one i described above, and you reload an updated wallet after using a patched bitcoin, you will not have access (and don't see) the partially-spent coins (though they should re-appear if you update to a patched version again)
3905 2011-03-23 20:35:01 <jrabbit> thats what you're saying
3906 2011-03-23 20:35:11 <JFK911> why wouldn't you earn francs if you were in switzerland
3907 2011-03-23 20:35:22 <JFK911> trying to sling dollars in switzerland sounds dumb
3908 2011-03-23 20:35:23 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, so unless the median income in switzerland is > 53k USD/year, they're effectively poorer than us
3909 2011-03-23 20:35:36 <Necr0s> I don't understand why ppl have this notion of "quantum computers" vs "electrical computers".
3910 2011-03-23 20:35:38 <Meelu> ArtForz, don't you think a quantum processor will only be limited by its input of power/
3911 2011-03-23 20:35:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: but if you want to keet it completely compatible, i understand
3912 2011-03-23 20:35:46 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I donno if poorer is the right word
3913 2011-03-23 20:35:47 <Necr0s> I mean, yes, they are completely different technologies, but why not make a computer that uses both?
3914 2011-03-23 20:35:49 <jrabbit> maybe less wealthy
3915 2011-03-23 20:35:55 <Necr0s> QPUs.
3916 2011-03-23 20:35:55 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, international GDP numbers are reported in USD, iirc they use an average exchange rate for the year
3917 2011-03-23 20:35:57 <jrabbit> but they certainly are happier and live longer.
3918 2011-03-23 20:36:09 <ArtForz> you do realize quantum computing is *significantly* different from conventional algorithms
3919 2011-03-23 20:36:19 <Necr0s> They certainly have different strengths and weaknesses.
3920 2011-03-23 20:36:25 <Meelu> yes but i never heard anyone discuss where the power source is from
3921 2011-03-23 20:36:29 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, happiness does not wealth create :P
3922 2011-03-23 20:36:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea my only concern is comparability...though yours will only break compatibility if you import a key under rare circumstances right?
3923 2011-03-23 20:36:34 <Necr0s> Use them together to have both of their strengths avaialable.
3924 2011-03-23 20:36:42 <BlueMatt> compatibility*
3925 2011-03-23 20:36:43 <ArtForz> who cares?
3926 2011-03-23 20:36:46 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, plenty of rich people aren't happy, that doesn't make them any less rich
3927 2011-03-23 20:36:47 <Meelu> so i dont see it possible to be processing without power
3928 2011-03-23 20:36:55 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: does make them healthier though
3929 2011-03-23 20:36:58 <Meelu> ArtForz, its rellevant to the convo
3930 2011-03-23 20:37:05 <ArtForz> so?
3931 2011-03-23 20:37:10 <ArtForz> it's still use power
3932 2011-03-23 20:37:16 <jrabbit> I bet the swiss rich are healthier then the american rich
3933 2011-03-23 20:37:17 <ArtForz> and... thats relevant how?
3934 2011-03-23 20:37:18 <Meelu> when there are quantum processors, the only thing limiting will be power
3935 2011-03-23 20:37:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, the patch keeps the old spent byte updated as well for older clients
3936 2011-03-23 20:37:24 <Meelu> so it will balance out
3937 2011-03-23 20:37:26 <Meelu> people with more power
3938 2011-03-23 20:37:29 <Meelu> more money
3939 2011-03-23 20:37:29 <ArtForz> power for what?
3940 2011-03-23 20:37:32 <Meelu> to process
3941 2011-03-23 20:37:35 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, that's probably true, but for reasons entirely unrelated
3942 2011-03-23 20:37:40 <molecular> ArtForz, neither askrate=5 nor -limitfreerelay=1 helped my getwork problem ;( using "if(nFees < CENT) return false;" now
3943 2011-03-23 20:37:43 <ArtForz> that makes no fucking sense. at all.
3944 2011-03-23 20:37:44 <Meelu> electricity
3945 2011-03-23 20:37:46 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: kinda sorta but still :P
3946 2011-03-23 20:37:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: but actually, i should test this before making claims
3947 2011-03-23 20:37:54 <Meelu> change power to "energy"
3948 2011-03-23 20:37:59 <Meelu> it needs enerygy right
3949 2011-03-23 20:38:01 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, money cant buy you health
3950 2011-03-23 20:38:04 <Meelu> how else is it going to process
3951 2011-03-23 20:38:07 <jrabbit> Maybe wages are the wrogn way to look at it
3952 2011-03-23 20:38:10 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: it can so
3953 2011-03-23 20:38:17 <jrabbit> it can here in the US
3954 2011-03-23 20:38:18 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, being healthy cant buy you a 50" tv
3955 2011-03-23 20:38:20 <ArtForz> yes, and again, what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
3956 2011-03-23 20:38:30 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: but if your sick you can't afford that here.
3957 2011-03-23 20:38:46 <jrabbit> :P
3958 2011-03-23 20:38:48 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lol no it cant, it can improve the healthcare you receive, but if you eat nothing but cheeseburgers you're going to have a heart attack and you are going to die
3959 2011-03-23 20:39:03 <Meelu> well ArtForz "<ArtForz> when multi-kilo-qbit quantum computers become feasible, pretty much *any* ecdsa will be fucked"
3960 2011-03-23 20:39:05 <ArtForz> you are going to die sooner, you mean ;)
3961 2011-03-23 20:39:10 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, please do...(in theory) if an old client uses the wallet, it will get a smaller balance but still be able to spend all coins not in a half-spent tx right?
3962 2011-03-23 20:39:13 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, of course
3963 2011-03-23 20:39:16 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: not if you can afford an artificial heart and the blood of virgins.
3964 2011-03-23 20:39:31 <ArtForz> Meelu: yes. thats a fact
3965 2011-03-23 20:39:39 <jrabbit> e.g. dick cheney
3966 2011-03-23 20:39:42 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, neither of those things will help much when your aorta ruptures while you're walking down the street
3967 2011-03-23 20:39:47 <ArtForz> modified shor works for elliptic curve DLP
3968 2011-03-23 20:39:54 <Meelu> but i dont see why no one ever looks at how much energy quantum processors will need
3969 2011-03-23 20:40:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: if so, I think the advantages of wallet import would far outweigh the backward-compatibility woes
3970 2011-03-23 20:40:03 <Meelu> they think its magic or from scifi
3971 2011-03-23 20:40:10 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: the artificial heart does I think actually.
3972 2011-03-23 20:40:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: opinion on merging spent per txout into -patched?
3973 2011-03-23 20:40:14 <ArtForz> "not much"
3974 2011-03-23 20:40:36 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lol no it wouldn't, if your aorta ruptures you have like 30 seconds to get to an OR before you bleed out
3975 2011-03-23 20:40:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, that's the intention at least - there were two options: having a partially spent coin appear as a usable one (which would cause rejected transactions), or havng it appear as a spent one (cause an incorrect balance, but no invalid tx'es)
3976 2011-03-23 20:40:45 <sipa> but i'll test it
3977 2011-03-23 20:41:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, well I suppose if you test it and it works as is, I have no problems merging it
3978 2011-03-23 20:41:26 <nanotube> sipa: wwhat is a 'partially spent' coin? either a txout is spent, or it is not...
3979 2011-03-23 20:41:27 <BlueMatt> I much agree that incorrect balance is better
3980 2011-03-23 20:41:33 <nanotube> at least that's been my understanding.
3981 2011-03-23 20:41:40 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
3982 2011-03-23 20:41:51 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I don't know that people can die of a heart condition after having it replaced partially or entirely
3983 2011-03-23 20:41:54 <sipa> nanotube: it's about partially spent transactions, not partially spent txouts :)
3984 2011-03-23 20:42:02 <jrabbit> that or that its ever happened
3985 2011-03-23 20:42:07 <sipa> nanotube: the current client keeps only a per-tx boolean for that, not a per-txout one
3986 2011-03-23 20:42:14 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, the aorta isn't replaced
3987 2011-03-23 20:42:46 <sipa> and if you have a tx with two different outputs, both assigned to keys of yours, the client is currently unable to have only one of them spent (and is as such also incapable of using only a single one as input)
3988 2011-03-23 20:42:50 <jrabbit> oh.
3989 2011-03-23 20:43:03 <nanotube> sipa: aaah i see. looks like the client needs updating. :)
3990 2011-03-23 20:43:07 <jrabbit> I donno why I thoguht it was part of the heart.
3991 2011-03-23 20:43:15 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, indeed the aorta is made more vulnerable by an artifical heart
3992 2011-03-23 20:43:35 <jrabbit> ok that makes sense actually
3993 2011-03-23 20:43:37 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ACK
3994 2011-03-23 20:43:38 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, it's the large artery that is attached to the heart
3995 2011-03-23 20:43:50 <jrabbit> yeah i looked it up >_<
3996 2011-03-23 20:43:55 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, an artifical heart isn't attached quite as well as you're original one :P
3997 2011-03-23 20:44:26 <phantomcircuit> lol
3998 2011-03-23 20:44:33 <phantomcircuit> so i think i have this sqlalchemy stuff working
3999 2011-03-23 20:44:36 <sipa> nanotube: when i mentioned it to gavin, he forwarded it to satoshi, who said that the per-tx boolean was a bad idea, and replied with a short patch to change the tx serialization code
4000 2011-03-23 20:44:40 <phantomcircuit> and then
4001 2011-03-23 20:44:40 <phantomcircuit> sqlalchemy.orm.exc.MultipleResultsFound: Multiple rows were found for one()
4002 2011-03-23 20:45:04 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: ok but if you weren't rich you'd die faster from horrible diet.
4003 2011-03-23 20:45:16 <jrabbit> and could afford a better one
4004 2011-03-23 20:45:22 <jrabbit> such as the blood of virgins.
4005 2011-03-23 20:45:24 <nanotube> sipa: cool :)
4006 2011-03-23 20:45:45 <jrabbit> you might very well eventually die.
4007 2011-03-23 20:46:00 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, the reality is that 95% of medical expenses occur in the last like 5 years of life
4008 2011-03-23 20:46:03 <phantomcircuit> my aunt is 92
4009 2011-03-23 20:46:24 <phantomcircuit> from 0-90 she probably spent like 20 grand on health care
4010 2011-03-23 20:46:36 <phantomcircuit> in the last 2 years she's spent over 100k
4011 2011-03-23 20:47:08 RBecker has joined
4012 2011-03-23 20:47:36 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, so really what the poor are missing out on is being old and shitting on themselves
4013 2011-03-23 20:47:42 <nanotube> yea except that 100k 2010 dollars was like... 10k 1910 dollars. :)
4014 2011-03-23 20:47:54 <phantomcircuit> nanotube, i took that into account :P
4015 2011-03-23 20:48:01 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: don't tell them that or they might stop working.
4016 2011-03-23 20:48:04 <nanotube> heh
4017 2011-03-23 20:48:09 <phantomcircuit> also almost all of that 20k was in the last 10 years
4018 2011-03-23 20:48:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: What is holding it back from master, I understand its a big deal to merge it, but wallet from a new master dont really have to work perfectly with old clients?
4019 2011-03-23 20:48:23 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, most of them already have ;)
4020 2011-03-23 20:48:32 <jrabbit> Reverse boomsday effect.
4021 2011-03-23 20:48:34 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: lol
4022 2011-03-23 20:50:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: for spentpertxout or walletdump?
4023 2011-03-23 20:50:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: both
4024 2011-03-23 20:51:21 <sipa> for spentpertxout i made a pull request - i think if it's been tested (by others?) enough it will be merged
4025 2011-03-23 20:51:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh ok, my question was mostly just if anyone has directly objected to it
4026 2011-03-23 20:51:58 <sipa> no :)
4027 2011-03-23 20:52:46 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, anyways my point is simple
4028 2011-03-23 20:52:57 <phantomcircuit> stuff in the US is cheap as fuck compared to the average wage
4029 2011-03-23 20:53:09 <sipa> for walletdump, i think there are some things that need improvement, like documentation, handling of attempted double-spends (which in rare cases become possible when import/export of keys is there)
4030 2011-03-23 20:53:24 <phantomcircuit> especially if you consider that the CPI doesn't select the cheapest substitute goods available
4031 2011-03-23 20:53:29 yitz has quit (Quit: yitz)
4032 2011-03-23 20:53:49 <phantomcircuit> if you pinch them pennies you can live off of practically nothing in rural areas
4033 2011-03-23 20:54:01 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: sure it is
4034 2011-03-23 20:54:05 m00p has joined
4035 2011-03-23 20:54:19 <jrabbit> its really goddamn cheap where food isnt taxed.
4036 2011-03-23 20:56:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok then, if you dont mind testing it with an older client as well. I would happily merge them
4037 2011-03-23 20:56:43 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, yup
4038 2011-03-23 20:56:44 <sipa> yup, doing that right now
4039 2011-03-23 20:56:49 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, guess how much milk costs in sf
4040 2011-03-23 20:56:52 Sidnicious has joined
4041 2011-03-23 20:56:59 <phantomcircuit> then guess what % of that is taxes
4042 2011-03-23 20:57:09 <jrabbit> lol
4043 2011-03-23 20:57:10 <dirtyfilthy> i thought americans lived on cheesburgers and curly fries ?????
4044 2011-03-23 20:57:12 <jrabbit> http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/03/23/detroit-is-dying-quickly/
4045 2011-03-23 20:57:24 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: food is taxed here in kansas
4046 2011-03-23 20:57:35 <jrabbit> I tihkn we're the only state stupid enough to still do it
4047 2011-03-23 20:57:41 <jrabbit> its such a regressive tax
4048 2011-03-23 20:58:18 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, sf taxes food indirectly
4049 2011-03-23 20:58:24 revvie has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4050 2011-03-23 20:58:37 <phantomcircuit> all the "progressives" work at odds and dont even understand that they are
4051 2011-03-23 20:58:40 <phantomcircuit> it's so funny
4052 2011-03-23 20:58:53 <jgarzik> possibly-state-sponsored attacks against SSL websites: http://blogs.comodo.com/category/it-security/
4053 2011-03-23 20:58:58 <jrabbit> how do you tax food indirectly?
4054 2011-03-23 20:59:21 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, tax the transportation/grocery stores
4055 2011-03-23 20:59:28 <jgarzik> sipa: updated scratchoff with your suggestion
4056 2011-03-23 20:59:45 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, iirc like 50% of the price of food is transportation, 25% is cost of being on the shelf
4057 2011-03-23 21:00:01 <jrabbit> eh.
4058 2011-03-23 21:00:04 <jrabbit> thats ok
4059 2011-03-23 21:00:16 <jrabbit> aslong as it encourages local consumption
4060 2011-03-23 21:00:35 <phantomcircuit> lol it totally doesn't
4061 2011-03-23 21:00:49 <jrabbit> how doesn't it?
4062 2011-03-23 21:00:55 zylche has joined
4063 2011-03-23 21:01:04 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, the taxes are only within the city
4064 2011-03-23 21:01:08 <jrabbit> how does california mil fare worse than xyz milk under that tax
4065 2011-03-23 21:01:12 <phantomcircuit> and since there isn't any farming within the city
4066 2011-03-23 21:01:20 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: are you sure? :P
4067 2011-03-23 21:01:26 <jrabbit> ok still
4068 2011-03-23 21:01:28 <phantomcircuit> lol there is some
4069 2011-03-23 21:01:32 <phantomcircuit> but not enough to matter
4070 2011-03-23 21:01:40 <jrabbit> Local can include california
4071 2011-03-23 21:02:07 sortedmush has joined
4072 2011-03-23 21:02:46 <sortedmush> Hi there. Any miners in the UK here?
4073 2011-03-23 21:05:27 <xelister> sortedmush: UukGoblin
4074 2011-03-23 21:06:20 <sortedmush> Just realised this is a dev chat .. You guys mind off topic stuff?
4075 2011-03-23 21:07:24 <tcatm> there's #bitcoin-discussion and #bitcoin-mining
4076 2011-03-23 21:07:33 <sortedmush> cheers :D
4077 2011-03-23 21:07:34 <BlueMatt> sortedmush: we would prefer -discussion
4078 2011-03-23 21:08:27 <BlueMatt> -DSTATICLIB is it evil to define in makefile?
4079 2011-03-23 21:08:33 <BlueMatt> on msw
4080 2011-03-23 21:09:15 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, well sure almost all our food is local by that definition
4081 2011-03-23 21:09:30 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, more because of the enormous amount of food we produce than some idiotic gas tax though :P
4082 2011-03-23 21:09:45 <sipa> jgarzik: nice, next step: move-to-own-wallet-address-transaction?
4083 2011-03-23 21:10:02 <jgarzik> sipa: correct
4084 2011-03-23 21:10:24 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: heh
4085 2011-03-23 21:10:50 <phantomcircuit> hmm
4086 2011-03-23 21:11:04 sortedmush has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4087 2011-03-23 21:12:29 Bosma_ has joined
4088 2011-03-23 21:12:59 wood has joined
4089 2011-03-23 21:15:03 overtorque has joined
4090 2011-03-23 21:15:31 Bosma has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4091 2011-03-23 21:15:31 Bosma_ is now known as Bosma
4092 2011-03-23 21:18:35 <xelister> "<sortedmush> Just realised this is a dev chat .. You guys mind off topic stuff?"
4093 2011-03-23 21:18:38 <xelister> O_o< LOOOL
4094 2011-03-23 21:23:24 trentzb has joined
4095 2011-03-23 21:23:26 Omni has joined
4096 2011-03-23 21:27:36 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4097 2011-03-23 21:28:38 angryundead has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4098 2011-03-23 21:29:32 bitcoiner has joined
4099 2011-03-23 21:30:02 <BlueMatt> ...and UPnP is DONE
4100 2011-03-23 21:30:07 andi_ is now known as eltigre
4101 2011-03-23 21:35:19 eltigre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4102 2011-03-23 21:37:38 <sipa> jgarzik: btw, i doubt whether a password over 256 bits is cryptographically useful
4103 2011-03-23 21:38:02 <phantomcircuit> lol it's not
4104 2011-03-23 21:38:15 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4105 2011-03-23 21:39:03 eltigre has joined
4106 2011-03-23 21:39:32 <molecular> jgarzik, tcatm, luke-jr: about the getwork-being-really-slow-under-tx-spam-attack-problem I have: is this discussed in the forum already? should I make a thread? I think it might be driving people from mining solo to pools, which I don't like.
4107 2011-03-23 21:39:48 <tcatm> BlueMatt: why no fUseUPnp = GetBoolArg("-upnp")?
4108 2011-03-23 21:39:49 <molecular> ^ ,slush
4109 2011-03-23 21:39:59 <d__> molecular: what's wrong with pools?
4110 2011-03-23 21:40:21 <molecular> if there's not enough pools, say 3, 2 of them could cooperate to own network
4111 2011-03-23 21:40:22 <tcatm> molecular: limitfreerelay helps
4112 2011-03-23 21:40:24 <BlueMatt> tcatm: its in init.cpp...?
4113 2011-03-23 21:40:44 <molecular> tcatm, no it doesn't, I tried
4114 2011-03-23 21:40:45 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I see -noupnp and -upnp
4115 2011-03-23 21:40:57 <BlueMatt> tcatm: if the user changes the option in wxui at runtime, it will disable/enable upnp at that time
4116 2011-03-23 21:41:13 <molecular> tcatm, it might help, but I still had to restart bitcoin after couple hours cause I was not getting work any more
4117 2011-03-23 21:41:28 <BlueMatt> tcatm: -upnp and -noupnp are designed to overwrite what the wallet has stored
4118 2011-03-23 21:41:33 <BlueMatt> tcatm: (from the ui)
4119 2011-03-23 21:41:53 ArtForz has joined
4120 2011-03-23 21:42:07 <molecular> maybe I have a different (additional) problem here, but this is keeping me from solo-mining
4121 2011-03-23 21:42:46 <Hiro_Protagonist> is there a clustered miner application around?
4122 2011-03-23 21:42:47 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
4123 2011-03-23 21:43:11 <molecular> Hiro_Protagonist, "clustered miner" might be called "pooled mining" here
4124 2011-03-23 21:43:19 <Hiro_Protagonist> nods
4125 2011-03-23 21:43:39 <molecular> or "getwork protocol-supporting miner"
4126 2011-03-23 21:43:52 <tcatm> BlueMatt: mhm okay.
4127 2011-03-23 21:43:55 <molecular> Hiro_Protagonist, you're looking for a pool server?
4128 2011-03-23 21:44:03 <Hiro_Protagonist> I can dig it :3
4129 2011-03-23 21:44:12 <Hiro_Protagonist> (miner joke ftw)
4130 2011-03-23 21:44:31 <Hiro_Protagonist> nah, just asking dumbass questions in the interest of becoming less of a dumbass
4131 2011-03-23 21:44:55 <BlueMatt> Hiro_Protagonist: please ask on #bitcoin-discussion then ;)
4132 2011-03-23 21:44:56 <molecular> Hiro_Protagonist, maybe you could answer the follow-up questions to your questions?
4133 2011-03-23 21:45:14 <dirtyfilthy> Hiro_Protagonist: do you listen to REASON? (snow crash joke ftw)
4134 2011-03-23 21:45:35 <Hiro_Protagonist> LOL
4135 2011-03-23 21:45:45 eltigre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4136 2011-03-23 21:45:47 <Hiro_Protagonist> be seen at -discussion
4137 2011-03-23 21:45:51 noagendamarket has joined
4138 2011-03-23 21:47:22 eltigre has joined
4139 2011-03-23 21:48:19 <eltigre> Hey, I am trying out poclbm and the documentation is unclear what it means with "RPC Client"
4140 2011-03-23 21:48:38 <jrabbit> eltigre: hm?
4141 2011-03-23 21:48:39 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4142 2011-03-23 21:48:50 <jrabbit> in what context
4143 2011-03-23 21:49:04 <eltigre> Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
4144 2011-03-23 21:49:10 <jrabbit> oh
4145 2011-03-23 21:49:23 <jrabbit> means you don't have bitcoin running.
4146 2011-03-23 21:49:32 <eltigre> I have
4147 2011-03-23 21:49:33 <jrabbit> bitcoind atleast
4148 2011-03-23 21:49:40 <jrabbit> donno if the gui enables the rpc sercer
4149 2011-03-23 21:49:42 lyspooner has joined
4150 2011-03-23 21:49:42 <jrabbit> *server
4151 2011-03-23 21:49:45 <eltigre> it can
4152 2011-03-23 21:49:55 <jrabbit> hm...
4153 2011-03-23 21:49:58 <jrabbit> check it
4154 2011-03-23 21:50:03 <eltigre> how do I prevent other processes on the same server or on the lan from accessing the rpc client?
4155 2011-03-23 21:50:11 <jrabbit> huh?
4156 2011-03-23 21:50:27 <molecular> tcatm, the getwork troubles already start now with a tx cache size of 66
4157 2011-03-23 21:50:31 <jrabbit> its on the wiki.
4158 2011-03-23 21:51:18 <jrabbit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin#Bitcoin.conf_Configuration_File
4159 2011-03-23 21:51:21 <molecular> ArtForz, am running into slight getwork troubles at 66 tx cache size already? does that make sense?
4160 2011-03-23 21:51:26 <ArtForz> nope
4161 2011-03-23 21:51:26 <tcatm> molecular: what's the trouble? getwork taking long time to return?
4162 2011-03-23 21:51:44 <ArtForz> do you have a really slow disk or high I/O load?
4163 2011-03-23 21:51:45 <molecular> yes
4164 2011-03-23 21:51:54 <molecular> getwork takes several seconds
4165 2011-03-23 21:52:07 <molecular> at some point it takes longer the my getwork interval (currently 5s)
4166 2011-03-23 21:52:18 <molecular> I have slowish cpu (atom)
4167 2011-03-23 21:52:25 <ArtForz> yeah, that might do it
4168 2011-03-23 21:52:54 <molecular> which is also under load from other shit since it's my desktop
4169 2011-03-23 21:53:01 <tcatm> getwork took about 3 seconds on bitcoincharts (>1000 tx in memory), subsequent getworks are few ms
4170 2011-03-23 21:53:12 <molecular> but should I really move bitcoin to my server, which is even slower via c7 @1800
4171 2011-03-23 21:53:17 doublec has joined
4172 2011-03-23 21:53:17 doublec has quit (Changing host)
4173 2011-03-23 21:53:17 doublec has joined
4174 2011-03-23 21:53:40 <ArtForz> well, there shouldnt be issues with only 66 cached
4175 2011-03-23 21:54:02 <ArtForz> I could see problems on a atom beyond 2-300, but not at 66
4176 2011-03-23 21:54:12 <molecular> so,actually, if transaction load increases by an order of a magnitude we have already the situation that normal people are not advised to run full-blown nodes?
4177 2011-03-23 21:54:38 <ArtForz> again, it's not *that* hard to fix
4178 2011-03-23 21:54:38 <molecular> well, ArtForz, there's skype-codec, chromium,... it's my desktop
4179 2011-03-23 21:54:52 Ruudjah has joined
4180 2011-03-23 21:54:53 <eltigre> now I am getting wrong username or password. I think the password is correct (same as in conf)
4181 2011-03-23 21:54:58 <ArtForz> can you check if it's actually pegging the CPU?
4182 2011-03-23 21:54:59 <eltigre> what user does it mean?
4183 2011-03-23 21:55:02 <molecular> I can easily fix it for myself by just rejecting non-fee tx
4184 2011-03-23 21:55:25 <ArtForz> because here it seemed to be more I/O than CPU bound
4185 2011-03-23 21:55:35 <molecular> I can't see it using cpu in htop. trying to verify that
4186 2011-03-23 21:55:49 <molecular> it seems it's using the cpu when the tx comes in, right?
4187 2011-03-23 21:55:55 arstneio has joined
4188 2011-03-23 21:55:59 <ArtForz> well, to verify incoming tx, yes
4189 2011-03-23 21:56:07 <molecular> there's some iotop app? what's it called?
4190 2011-03-23 21:56:20 <ArtForz> iotop ?
4191 2011-03-23 21:56:21 <molecular> and that runs in same thread as getwork?
4192 2011-03-23 21:56:25 <ArtForz> no
4193 2011-03-23 21:56:47 <arstneio> ;;bc,diff
4194 2011-03-23 21:56:47 <gribble> 76193.9710474
4195 2011-03-23 21:56:56 <ArtForz> what stalls getwork is CreateNewBlock
4196 2011-03-23 21:57:03 <eltigre> jrabbit, now I get wrong username or password
4197 2011-03-23 21:57:06 <arstneio> ;;bc,estimate
4198 2011-03-23 21:57:06 <gribble> 68087.66404033
4199 2011-03-23 21:57:14 <eltigre> jrabbit, what does it mean with "user"?
4200 2011-03-23 21:57:26 <ArtForz> and I suspect *that* is more I/O than cpu bound
4201 2011-03-23 21:57:48 <ArtForz> I don't really know why though, it doesnt *look* like it does lots of I/O
4202 2011-03-23 21:57:53 <molecular> CreateNewBlock is in O(n) with n == <number of tx in cache>?
4203 2011-03-23 21:58:09 <ArtForz> yes
4204 2011-03-23 21:58:16 <molecular> ArtForz, why do you think IO might be the problem?
4205 2011-03-23 21:58:23 <molecular> it's all in RAM
4206 2011-03-23 21:58:39 <eltigre> I love missing documentation -.-
4207 2011-03-23 21:58:46 <jrabbit> eltigre: um you set an rpc password?
4208 2011-03-23 21:58:51 <eltigre> in the conf, yes
4209 2011-03-23 21:58:52 <jrabbit> now you use your pool password
4210 2011-03-23 21:58:56 * molecular is emerging iotop
4211 2011-03-23 21:59:00 <ArtForz> because with 1500 tx cached I saw kinda crazy I/O numbers
4212 2011-03-23 21:59:04 <jrabbit> thats the confusion with RPC
4213 2011-03-23 21:59:10 <arstneio> ;;bc,stats
4214 2011-03-23 21:59:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114731 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 180 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 8 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68087.66404033
4215 2011-03-23 21:59:17 <eltigre> I have python poclbm.py -d 0 --pass=
4216 2011-03-23 21:59:27 <ArtForz> spikes to > 10k IOPS
4217 2011-03-23 21:59:33 * molecular is having getwork failures every minute now with tx cache size == 76
4218 2011-03-23 21:59:45 <ArtForz> I certainly don't see that
4219 2011-03-23 21:59:50 <slush> molecular: free tx will be accepted on the pool soon
4220 2011-03-23 21:59:52 <molecular> I dont have 1500 tx cached
4221 2011-03-23 21:59:54 <tcatm> does txPrev.ReadFromDisk() actually read a tx from disk?
4222 2011-03-23 22:00:01 <ArtForz> sec...
4223 2011-03-23 22:00:19 <molecular> slush, are you having similar problem to mine (getwork taking long / failing)
4224 2011-03-23 22:00:23 <ArtForz> yes, it does a fopen/fseek/fread/fclose for blk0001.dat
4225 2011-03-23 22:00:25 <slush> molecular: yes
4226 2011-03-23 22:00:28 <eltigre> of course I appended the password from the conf file to the -pass=
4227 2011-03-23 22:00:36 <tcatm> so that's probably what slows it down
4228 2011-03-23 22:00:40 <ArtForz> (if the input is from a tx thats already in a block)
4229 2011-03-23 22:00:42 <slush> molecular: m0mchil is working on workaround, getwork won't be blocking
4230 2011-03-23 22:00:46 <slush> *blocked
4231 2011-03-23 22:00:54 Stellar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4232 2011-03-23 22:00:58 arstneio has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4233 2011-03-23 22:01:00 <ArtForz> and it does a lookup in blkindex DB for every call, too
4234 2011-03-23 22:01:01 <slush> I hope it will be accepted (in any similar way) also in upstream
4235 2011-03-23 22:01:22 <molecular> "if (!txPrev.ReadFromDisk(txdb, txin.prevout, txindex))" <- you mean this, tcatm?
4236 2011-03-23 22:01:29 <tcatm> molecular: yep
4237 2011-03-23 22:01:36 <ArtForz> yeah, that sounds like it might cause slowdowns, especially if you dont have enough free memory to keep blk0001 cached
4238 2011-03-23 22:02:38 <tcatm> how does that code find the transaction in blk0001.dat? is there an index for txhash -> blkhash?
4239 2011-03-23 22:02:44 <eltigre> so what is it about the rpc?
4240 2011-03-23 22:03:23 <sipa> https://svn.ulyssis.org/repos/sipa/libbtc/merklecalc.cpp <-- 150000 getworks/s
4241 2011-03-23 22:03:27 <ArtForz> yes
4242 2011-03-23 22:04:09 Sidnicious has quit (Quit: Sidnicious)
4243 2011-03-23 22:04:12 <ArtForz> blkindex.dat for txhash->offset
4244 2011-03-23 22:04:15 <slush> sipa: too bad that I'm too busy with other stuff and had no time to implement this :(
4245 2011-03-23 22:04:21 <sipa> slush: no prob :)
4246 2011-03-23 22:04:36 <slush> tcatm: I'm back now, so I'll try to use wallet with fresh bitcoin directory...
4247 2011-03-23 22:04:50 <eltigre> hey I would like to use poclbm, but I can't figure out the options
4248 2011-03-23 22:05:22 bgeron has joined
4249 2011-03-23 22:05:23 <ArtForz> urrr... why the F are we not caching that stuff?
4250 2011-03-23 22:05:36 <molecular> slush, workaround will relieve the pain, but in the end we should fix stuff in bitcoin
4251 2011-03-23 22:05:38 <ArtForz> it's not like tx can magically appear in blocks while no new block comes along
4252 2011-03-23 22:06:13 <eltigre> anybody used poclbm yet??
4253 2011-03-23 22:06:19 Omni has quit (AFK!~hopper@attic.omnifarious.org|Changing host)
4254 2011-03-23 22:06:19 Omni has joined
4255 2011-03-23 22:06:29 <luke-jr> eltigre: it's not exactly new
4256 2011-03-23 22:07:04 <eltigre> yes, and it still hasn't any documentation to speak of ^^ That's why I have to ask about the parameters
4257 2011-03-23 22:07:10 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4258 2011-03-23 22:07:33 <JFK911> the documentation is built in
4259 2011-03-23 22:07:34 <luke-jr> eltigre: if I help you, my profits go down. with this in mind, what are you offering to pay for assistance? :P
4260 2011-03-23 22:07:42 <JFK911> luke has the right idea
4261 2011-03-23 22:08:05 <eltigre> I have currentyl "python poclbm.py -d 0 --pass" and get "wrong username or password"
4262 2011-03-23 22:08:15 <ArtForz> capitalism FTW
4263 2011-03-23 22:08:18 <luke-jr> :P
4264 2011-03-23 22:08:18 <eltigre> and normally I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of tipping someone off
4265 2011-03-23 22:08:28 <molecular> I think ArtForz might've just identified the root of the problem?
4266 2011-03-23 22:08:40 <eltigre> but I am totally averse against extortion
4267 2011-03-23 22:08:57 <ArtForz> could be...
4268 2011-03-23 22:09:17 mikejw has joined
4269 2011-03-23 22:09:26 SanguineRose has joined
4270 2011-03-23 22:09:36 <luke-jr> eltigre: it's not extortion to ask what you're paying.
4271 2011-03-23 22:09:48 <ArtForz> can't think of a elegant way to work around it though
4272 2011-03-23 22:09:50 <luke-jr> and I don't assist free of charge, when it's obvious ;)
4273 2011-03-23 22:10:00 <eltigre> then I won't pay you
4274 2011-03-23 22:10:07 mehh has joined
4275 2011-03-23 22:10:21 <slush> tcatm: I didn't touch anything and sendtoaddress started to work
4276 2011-03-23 22:10:36 <slush> makes me little nervous, because it can break again anytime
4277 2011-03-23 22:10:42 <eltigre> now I got it to work
4278 2011-03-23 22:10:47 <ArtForz> thats... really weird
4279 2011-03-23 22:10:58 <molecular> ArtForz, I assume getting a more powerfull cpu is not considered an elegant solution
4280 2011-03-23 22:11:12 <tcatm> slush: well it can start working anytime, too...
4281 2011-03-23 22:11:17 <molecular> or rejecting nonfee tx
4282 2011-03-23 22:11:23 <ArtForz> well, we do 2 things really with that prev tx
4283 2011-03-23 22:11:34 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4284 2011-03-23 22:12:04 <ArtForz> 1. check if it's in a block (can be cached between block updates)
4285 2011-03-23 22:12:28 <ArtForz> 2. if it is, get the value of the output referred to (same thing)
4286 2011-03-23 22:13:16 <eltigre> I only have 20000khash/second ... hm
4287 2011-03-23 22:13:34 <tcatm> When accepting (and validating tx) we could cache the inputs' values.
4288 2011-03-23 22:14:01 <ArtForz> true
4289 2011-03-23 22:14:41 <ArtForz> it's only 8 additional bytes per input we need to keep in ram, and I bet it'd be useful in a lot of places
4290 2011-03-23 22:16:29 <jgarzik> molecular: please do post on the forum
4291 2011-03-23 22:16:37 <tcatm> could a blockchain reorg cause problems with caching those values?
4292 2011-03-23 22:16:42 <jgarzik> molecular: it saves me having to paste this into gavin/satoshi email :)
4293 2011-03-23 22:16:45 <ArtForz> no
4294 2011-03-23 22:16:59 <ArtForz> how would the value of a prevtx change?
4295 2011-03-23 22:17:05 <ArtForz> we refer to it by hash
4296 2011-03-23 22:17:13 <tcatm> true...
4297 2011-03-23 22:17:20 <molecular> jgarzik, ok, I will
4298 2011-03-23 22:17:28 <ArtForz> so you'd need 2 tx with the same hash and different outputs... I think a lot of stuff would break if that'd happen
4299 2011-03-23 22:17:30 <tcatm> but what if that prevtx becomes invalid?
4300 2011-03-23 22:17:49 <ArtForz> well, we can still check if it's in a block
4301 2011-03-23 22:18:03 <ArtForz> = keep the blkindex lookup, just cache nValue
4302 2011-03-23 22:18:09 <tcatm> good idea
4303 2011-03-23 22:18:49 <sipa> are we talking about caching tx hashes?
4304 2011-03-23 22:20:08 <CIA-96> bitcoin: phantomcircuit <phantomcircuit@covertinferno.org> sqlalchemy * re41e11602b61 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/ (__init__.py net/payload.py net/peer.py storage.py): fixed a bunch of variable names datetime objects from timestamps
4305 2011-03-23 22:20:15 <ArtForz> no
4306 2011-03-23 22:20:31 <sipa> ok, haven't been following
4307 2011-03-23 22:20:43 <eltigre> hey I have a stupid question... what does the block size in the application window mean?
4308 2011-03-23 22:20:59 <ArtForz> caching prevtx.out[n].nValue in tx.vin[whatever]
4309 2011-03-23 22:21:16 <sipa> oh ic
4310 2011-03-23 22:21:27 Kiba has joined
4311 2011-03-23 22:22:16 <tcatm> looks like my "send all known unconfirmed tx to a node"-feature could be useful for this :)
4312 2011-03-23 22:23:14 Ruudjah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4313 2011-03-23 22:23:43 <ArtForz> the only way a tx can get into mem pool is AcceptToMemoryPool, right?
4314 2011-03-23 22:24:00 <mikejw> I just bought some bitcoins!
4315 2011-03-23 22:24:01 kelvie_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4316 2011-03-23 22:24:54 <ArtForz> meh, doesn't really matter
4317 2011-03-23 22:24:58 <eltigre> whenever I tell someone about bitcoins people immediately say it won't work
4318 2011-03-23 22:25:05 <eltigre> and someone will run off with your money
4319 2011-03-23 22:25:06 <eltigre> etc
4320 2011-03-23 22:25:40 <mikejw> what do yu say?
4321 2011-03-23 22:25:44 <mikejw> *you
4322 2011-03-23 22:26:06 <eltigre> I disagree. I can't prove it.
4323 2011-03-23 22:26:30 <eltigre> tomorrow all particapants can loose trust in the system and all coins are worthles
4324 2011-03-23 22:26:31 <eltigre> s
4325 2011-03-23 22:26:43 <eltigre> that has happened numerous times in history
4326 2011-03-23 22:27:16 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4327 2011-03-23 22:27:41 <eltigre> so whenever you are dealing with bitcoins you need a serious risk analysis. Like " Losing all my bitcoins wouldn't hurt me financially at all"
4328 2011-03-23 22:27:52 <mikejw> :D
4329 2011-03-23 22:28:26 xelister_ has joined
4330 2011-03-23 22:28:28 <ArtForz> aka "don't invest money you can't afford to lose"
4331 2011-03-23 22:28:41 <eltigre> yes
4332 2011-03-23 22:28:45 <ArtForz> which is generally true with... pretty much anything
4333 2011-03-23 22:29:09 xelister has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4334 2011-03-23 22:29:17 <tcatm> ArtForz: yep (AcceptToMem...). ConnectInputs() might be a good place to cache the input's values
4335 2011-03-23 22:29:39 <ArtForz> yeah, thats what I thought
4336 2011-03-23 22:29:53 <eltigre> ArtForz, not really. You can depend on certain assets only becoming worthless in a nuclear winter or alike
4337 2011-03-23 22:30:02 <eltigre> but generally, yes
4338 2011-03-23 22:30:16 <eltigre> I'd estimate the risk in bitcoins a lot higher
4339 2011-03-23 22:30:17 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rd38e683 / locale/nl/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po : Merge branch 'dutchloc' of https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin into tmp - http://bit.ly/haJsak
4340 2011-03-23 22:30:18 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r0b8e473 / locale/es/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po : Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/smola/bitcoin into tmp - http://bit.ly/hTzYY3
4341 2011-03-23 22:30:19 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r8203ec4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): [locale] Regenerate es, nl binary message catalogs - http://bit.ly/dRUkdc
4342 2011-03-23 22:30:20 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r3a47bf7 / init.cpp : Merge branch 'master' of git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin - http://bit.ly/hbjQbK
4343 2011-03-23 22:30:39 <eltigre> than for example a bankaccount or similar things
4344 2011-03-23 22:31:21 <kupo> I still need to join a pool
4345 2011-03-23 22:32:07 <jgarzik> tcatm: if you catch SIGSEGV like that, you make it a pain to obtain useful core dumps for later debugging
4346 2011-03-23 22:32:25 <molecular> ArtForz, tcatm, got iotop running: bitcoind pops up at top sporadically... so it looks like the problem is identified
4347 2011-03-23 22:32:55 <jgarzik> tcatm: the default signal handler for SIGSEGV is what generates a core dump
4348 2011-03-23 22:34:02 <jgarzik> tcatm: more generally, I'm concerned that this got committed without any pull request or review
4349 2011-03-23 22:34:20 <tcatm> jgarzik: can we catch sigsegv and close the wallet securely while still allowing coredumps?
4350 2011-03-23 22:35:31 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
4351 2011-03-23 22:35:41 <jgarzik> tcatm: I've never tested this hack: http://www.alexonlinux.com/how-to-handle-sigsegv-but-also-generate-core-dump But in general, core dumps are quite useful
4352 2011-03-23 22:35:43 <ArtForz> argh, this is confusing
4353 2011-03-23 22:36:00 <jgarzik> molecular: no surprise there, with db4
4354 2011-03-23 22:36:21 mikejw has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4355 2011-03-23 22:36:52 <luke-jr> eltigre: if you won't pay, I won't work
4356 2011-03-23 22:37:34 <eltigre> luke-jr, lucky you are not my computer then ;-)
4357 2011-03-23 22:37:40 <eltigre> and currently it works
4358 2011-03-23 22:38:16 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 20000
4359 2011-03-23 22:38:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 20000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 27 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 8 minutes, and 50 seconds
4360 2011-03-23 22:38:28 <luke-jr> yeah, I guess that won't hurt the network *too* much :p
4361 2011-03-23 22:39:30 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4362 2011-03-23 22:40:19 <eltigre> luke-jr, what do you want to say?
4363 2011-03-23 22:40:26 <luke-jr> eltigre: "hi"
4364 2011-03-23 22:40:32 <ArtForz> "mine is bigger than yours"
4365 2011-03-23 22:40:40 <eltigre> yes probably
4366 2011-03-23 22:40:47 TheKid has joined
4367 2011-03-23 22:40:47 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
4368 2011-03-23 22:40:47 TheKid has joined
4369 2011-03-23 22:41:46 <tcatm> jgarzik: could be complicated to pass the signal to the thread that calls Shutdown()
4370 2011-03-23 22:42:09 Stellar has joined
4371 2011-03-23 22:43:20 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4372 2011-03-23 22:43:52 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4373 2011-03-23 22:44:16 mehh has joined
4374 2011-03-23 22:45:07 <eltigre> don't see that you can make a profit from mining coins
4375 2011-03-23 22:45:37 <Aciid> ...
4376 2011-03-23 22:46:05 <eltigre> well 27 weeks for one block is a little too much to turn a profit
4377 2011-03-23 22:46:34 <sipa> eltigre: an HD 5970 would give you a block every week
4378 2011-03-23 22:46:47 <sipa> that's definitely profitable, but obviously far from all hardware is
4379 2011-03-23 22:46:48 <Aciid> is this some slashdotters nonsense again
4380 2011-03-23 22:46:51 <Aciid> to come and troll us
4381 2011-03-23 22:46:54 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 600000
4382 2011-03-23 22:46:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 6 days, 7 hours, 30 minutes, and 17 seconds
4383 2011-03-23 22:46:59 <nevezen> ;;bc,calc 30000
4384 2011-03-23 22:47:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 18 weeks, 0 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes, and 53 seconds
4385 2011-03-23 22:47:03 <eltigre> but would that give you enough to offset energy costs?
4386 2011-03-23 22:47:06 <nanotube> even less than every week:)
4387 2011-03-23 22:47:12 <sipa> eltigre: yes
4388 2011-03-23 22:47:13 <nanotube> eltigre: yes, more than enough.
4389 2011-03-23 22:47:21 <eltigre> hm
4390 2011-03-23 22:47:26 <sipa> but mining is not free money
4391 2011-03-23 22:47:29 <eltigre> I have an nvidia card
4392 2011-03-23 22:47:32 <nanotube> you can calculate yourself. the various GPU hash rates and power usages are listed on ,,(bc,wiki mining hardware)
4393 2011-03-23 22:47:32 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison | Below are some statistics about the mining performance of various hardware used in a mining rig. The GPU lists were originally compiled by ArtForz. ...
4394 2011-03-23 22:47:34 <sipa> it's an investment that may or may not repay itself
4395 2011-03-23 22:48:07 <nanotube> look up your power cost, project future bitcoin price and difficulty... and you can see whether it will pay for itself.
4396 2011-03-23 22:48:26 <nanotube> in the shorter term, if you join a pool and get more stable payout, you can even have certainty whether you'll be making more than power cost
4397 2011-03-23 22:48:31 <Blitzboom> >project future bitcoin price and difficulty.
4398 2011-03-23 22:48:32 <Blitzboom> haha
4399 2011-03-23 22:48:35 <jrabbit> I don't think was for a while but bitcoin has had an uptick in value
4400 2011-03-23 22:48:38 <nanotube> (not including hardware acquisition cost - that can take some time to amortize)
4401 2011-03-23 22:49:01 <nanotube> Blitzboom: any financial projections require projecting the future. bitcoin is no different.
4402 2011-03-23 22:49:10 <nanotube> well, more volatile than many other things :) but in essense, no different
4403 2011-03-23 22:49:13 <Blitzboom> on what basis would you do that, nanotube?
4404 2011-03-23 22:49:33 <nanotube> most often used way is looking at recent history.
4405 2011-03-23 22:49:36 <Blitzboom> you canât predict demand
4406 2011-03-23 22:49:45 <nanotube> you can try
4407 2011-03-23 22:49:50 <nanotube> and people do all the time
4408 2011-03-23 22:49:53 <Blitzboom> sure
4409 2011-03-23 22:50:00 <Blitzboom> just saying itâs very unsure
4410 2011-03-23 22:50:02 <luke-jr> eltigre: mining isn't *supposed* to generate a profit
4411 2011-03-23 22:50:03 <nanotube> before any company decides to embark on any new product, guess what they have to do? predict demand. :)
4412 2011-03-23 22:50:10 <nanotube> of course it's unsure, Blitzboom :)
4413 2011-03-23 22:50:58 <molecular> ArtForz, tcatm, jgarzik,... http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4853.0
4414 2011-03-23 22:51:19 <eltigre> well I think bitcoin can only go up or bust
4415 2011-03-23 22:51:35 <molecular> jgarzik, before you copy/paste to satoshi, let's discuss in forum first :p
4416 2011-03-23 22:52:06 <molecular> I quoted this channel basically
4417 2011-03-23 22:54:09 <ArtForz> any guinea pig? http://pastebin.com/5XHb542N
4418 2011-03-23 22:54:20 <JFK911> hmmm
4419 2011-03-23 22:54:24 <JFK911> g81 without springs
4420 2011-03-23 22:55:27 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4421 2011-03-23 22:56:13 octarine has joined
4422 2011-03-23 22:56:40 Impala has joined
4423 2011-03-23 22:57:01 <Impala> so if I keep the program open on my computer
4424 2011-03-23 22:57:02 <Impala> 24/7
4425 2011-03-23 22:57:07 <Impala> i will accrue btc?
4426 2011-03-23 22:57:18 <ArtForz> generally, no.
4427 2011-03-23 22:57:24 <jrabbit> if your home computer is a supercomputer
4428 2011-03-23 22:57:36 <Aciid> brb nasa
4429 2011-03-23 22:57:37 <Impala> quad core :X
4430 2011-03-23 22:57:50 <slush> jgarzik: is possible that sendmany patch broke sending normal transactions?
4431 2011-03-23 22:57:50 <Aciid> Impala: which
4432 2011-03-23 22:58:02 <Impala> moo: os: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate - (6.1.7600) up: 3days 18hrs 3mins cpu: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 925 Processor (x64) at 2100MHz (11% Load) gfx: ATI Technologies Inc. ATI display adapter (0x68B8) 1.00GB res: 1280x720 32bit 60Hz ram: 3636/8191.3MB (44.39%) [||||------] hdd: C:\ 444.85GB/931.51GB net: Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller - 100MB/s 3.3GB In 1.12GB Out
4433 2011-03-23 22:58:05 <slush> jgarzik: I'm getting "Error: The transaction was rejected. This might happen if some of the coins in your wallet were already spent, such as if you used a copy of wallet.dat and coins were spent in the copy but not marked as spent here." from yesterday
4434 2011-03-23 22:58:05 <jrabbit> actually 4x cores take a logn time but you'll get a decent rate pool mining
4435 2011-03-23 22:58:18 <ArtForz> for small values of "decent"
4436 2011-03-23 22:58:31 <noagendamarket> We should turn our hises into supercompuiters
4437 2011-03-23 22:58:36 <Impala> what is pool mining
4438 2011-03-23 22:58:36 <noagendamarket> *houses
4439 2011-03-23 22:58:54 <nanotube> Impala: see ,,(bc,wiki pooled mining)
4440 2011-03-23 22:58:55 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining | Pooled mining is an approach where multiple generating clients contribute to the generation of a block, and then split the block reward according the ...
4441 2011-03-23 22:58:55 <tcatm> ArtForz: main.cpp:3364: error: âconst class CTxInâ has no member named ânValueâ
4442 2011-03-23 22:59:05 mention has joined
4443 2011-03-23 22:59:09 <ArtForz> whoops
4444 2011-03-23 22:59:24 <jrabbit> Impala: you won't get alotbut you'll get mroe then I do now >:(
4445 2011-03-23 22:59:25 devrandom has joined
4446 2011-03-23 22:59:34 <jrabbit> my friends VPS got downgrade from 4 cores to one
4447 2011-03-23 22:59:39 <ArtForz> int64 nValueIn = txin.nValueIn;
4448 2011-03-23 22:59:59 octarine has left ()
4449 2011-03-23 23:00:55 <jrabbit> :(
4450 2011-03-23 23:01:10 <Impala> i was told leaving bitcoin open on your computer could generate like 50 btc in a few months
4451 2011-03-23 23:01:25 <jrabbit> a whiel ago yes
4452 2011-03-23 23:01:31 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 10000
4453 2011-03-23 23:01:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 1 year, 1 week, 6 days, 18 hours, 17 minutes, and 41 seconds
4454 2011-03-23 23:01:33 <ArtForz> it used to, like half a year ago
4455 2011-03-23 23:01:37 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
4456 2011-03-23 23:01:37 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 10000
4457 2011-03-23 23:01:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114737 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 174 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 7 hours, 27 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68103.85893695
4458 2011-03-23 23:01:40 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 0.132008919704 BTC per day and 0.00550037165432 BTC per hour.
4459 2011-03-23 23:01:47 <luke-jr> Impala: you'll get maybe about 0.13 BTC/day
4460 2011-03-23 23:01:54 <luke-jr> with a pool
4461 2011-03-23 23:02:03 <ArtForz> well, at least it compiles
4462 2011-03-23 23:02:04 <luke-jr> without a pool, you're looking at maybe 1 1/2 yeas
4463 2011-03-23 23:02:12 <luke-jr> to get a 50 BTC chunk
4464 2011-03-23 23:02:14 <Impala> how do I set up a pool
4465 2011-03-23 23:02:19 <luke-jr> Impala: you don't, you use it.
4466 2011-03-23 23:02:24 <tcatm> ArtForz: without patch: 1.7s, with patch: 0.6s
4467 2011-03-23 23:02:30 <Impala> im a newb sorry
4468 2011-03-23 23:02:32 <luke-jr> Impala: also, you'll pay more than 0.13 BTC/day in electricity to mine it
4469 2011-03-23 23:02:39 <luke-jr> Impala: what is your video card?
4470 2011-03-23 23:02:45 <tcatm> (1136 unconfirmed tx on a core 2 duo)
4471 2011-03-23 23:02:48 <Impala> radeon 5775
4472 2011-03-23 23:03:04 <luke-jr> then forget your CPU
4473 2011-03-23 23:03:05 <Impala> 1gb
4474 2011-03-23 23:03:09 <luke-jr> use poclbm with a pool
4475 2011-03-23 23:03:13 <jrabbit> hey has anyone done the math on what pooled mining would have done if it was used like a year ago?
4476 2011-03-23 23:03:16 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 156000
4477 2011-03-23 23:03:18 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 156000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 2.05933914738 BTC per day and 0.0858057978074 BTC per hour.
4478 2011-03-23 23:03:21 <ArtForz> jrabbit: nothing
4479 2011-03-23 23:03:24 <luke-jr> the Radeon 5770 can get 2 BTC per day
4480 2011-03-23 23:03:41 <Impala> what program do I need
4481 2011-03-23 23:03:52 <ArtForz> tcatm: nice
4482 2011-03-23 23:04:05 <jrabbit> I mena the payout woudl be faster...
4483 2011-03-23 23:04:08 <jrabbit> I guess...
4484 2011-03-23 23:04:25 <ArtForz> factor 3 isnt bad, but we're still doing 1000s of bdb lookups pretty mcuh for nothing
4485 2011-03-23 23:05:08 <Impala> luke-jr: what programs do I need
4486 2011-03-23 23:05:41 <eltigre> ;;bc,gen 600000
4487 2011-03-23 23:05:42 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 7.92053518222 BTC per day and 0.330022299259 BTC per hour.
4488 2011-03-23 23:05:55 <luke-jr> Impala: poclbm
4489 2011-03-23 23:05:58 <jrabbit> ^
4490 2011-03-23 23:06:07 <Impala> windows compatible?
4491 2011-03-23 23:06:13 <eltigre> well amazon gpu instances don't seem profitable
4492 2011-03-23 23:06:13 <luke-jr> nfc
4493 2011-03-23 23:06:18 <luke-jr> I haven't touched Windows in years
4494 2011-03-23 23:06:23 <eltigre> ;;bc,gen 1200000
4495 2011-03-23 23:06:24 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 15.8410703644 BTC per day and 0.660044598518 BTC per hour.
4496 2011-03-23 23:06:25 <luke-jr> eltigre: that's cuz it's nvidia
4497 2011-03-23 23:06:46 <eltigre> at least I think so, I don't know how fast they are, they have four gpus they saya
4498 2011-03-23 23:07:04 <eltigre> but it would be weird if cloud computing with bc would be profitable
4499 2011-03-23 23:07:25 <jrabbit> eltigre: odd
4500 2011-03-23 23:07:32 <jrabbit> I didn't know they sodl GPU instances.
4501 2011-03-23 23:07:40 <Impala> luke-jr: whats a link to get poclbm
4502 2011-03-23 23:07:58 <luke-jr> Impala: git://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm.git
4503 2011-03-23 23:07:58 <eltigre> Impala, www.google.com
4504 2011-03-23 23:08:08 <jrabbit> hurda hurda hur
4505 2011-03-23 23:08:55 <Impala> what can you purchase with btc
4506 2011-03-23 23:08:57 <molecular> hmm, after running bitcoind for 1 or 2 hours I already have 669 of the 1119 unconfirmed txs in my cache...
4507 2011-03-23 23:09:36 <jrabbit> Impala: ... on the wiki.
4508 2011-03-23 23:09:46 <jrabbit> thoguh in your defence the main website is down.
4509 2011-03-23 23:09:56 kelvie_ has joined
4510 2011-03-23 23:11:38 <tcatm> ArtForz: can we keep a list of unspent tx hashes in memory to avoid those lookups?
4511 2011-03-23 23:12:50 <ArtForz> thats what I'm currently working on a ugly hack for
4512 2011-03-23 23:13:36 <Impala> can I use my ps3 to mine
4513 2011-03-23 23:14:04 <jgarzik> slush: hmmm, maybe a large sendmany transaction crowded out a zero fee transaction?
4514 2011-03-23 23:14:29 <molecular> Impala, this has been discusse, ps3, while nice powerfull hardware, is not overly adequate for mining
4515 2011-03-23 23:14:31 <jgarzik> slush: otherwise I can't see how. sendmany uses the same multi-out as is currently in use.
4516 2011-03-23 23:14:31 <slush> no, it is failing on normal payment of 1 btc
4517 2011-03-23 23:14:34 <ArtForz> whats a good boost type to store a set of uint256s and do quick "x in set" lookups?
4518 2011-03-23 23:14:43 <slush> and I'm paying fees
4519 2011-03-23 23:14:51 <Impala> why is that molecular
4520 2011-03-23 23:15:04 <jgarzik> slush: ah. yeah, that should not happen, if you are paying a fee >= 0.01
4521 2011-03-23 23:15:27 <molecular> Impala, something about the cells not doing sha-type calcs fast enough to be considered to code a miner for them
4522 2011-03-23 23:15:34 <molecular> Impala, not sure, though
4523 2011-03-23 23:16:16 <slush> jgarzik: I'm totally screwed, after updating bitcoin the sending is not working on every few attempt
4524 2011-03-23 23:16:37 <slush> jgarzik: I tried another wallet and also completely fresh bitcoin directory
4525 2011-03-23 23:16:40 <eltigre> I haven't achieved a successful send yet either
4526 2011-03-23 23:16:50 <eltigre> except to my second wallet
4527 2011-03-23 23:17:11 <eltigre> I have 12 confirmations and the receiver hasn't received anything
4528 2011-03-23 23:17:17 * jrabbit has sent from one box to another fine...
4529 2011-03-23 23:17:24 <jrabbit> eltigre: thats to be expected
4530 2011-03-23 23:17:32 <slush> It worked on my devel machine, but completely stop to work on production, which is the worse case
4531 2011-03-23 23:17:35 <jrabbit> iirc they need 20 confirmatinos to see it in the gui
4532 2011-03-23 23:17:42 <ArtForz> nm, stl set works fine
4533 2011-03-23 23:17:44 <eltigre> ah
4534 2011-03-23 23:17:49 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4535 2011-03-23 23:18:05 phantomcircuit has joined
4536 2011-03-23 23:18:07 <jrabbit> it'll go to "confirmed status" or something
4537 2011-03-23 23:18:12 <eltigre> now it makes sense
4538 2011-03-23 23:18:20 <xelister_> ArtForz: isnt set using binary tree by default
4539 2011-03-23 23:18:28 <xelister_> ArtForz: there is #c++ and #boost with excelent users
4540 2011-03-23 23:18:33 <tcatm> slush: did the trouble started after a sendmany?
4541 2011-03-23 23:18:47 <slush> tcatm: yes
4542 2011-03-23 23:18:55 <slush> after upgrading bitcoin
4543 2011-03-23 23:19:14 * molecular switched to rejecting non-fee tx for now, like slush (?)
4544 2011-03-23 23:19:27 <tcatm> only upgrading or upgrading and actually making a sendmany tx?
4545 2011-03-23 23:19:28 lkj has joined
4546 2011-03-23 23:19:32 * slush found it as only one working solution for now
4547 2011-03-23 23:19:35 <jgarzik> slush: do you have pastebin of debug.log for when you create a transaction?
4548 2011-03-23 23:19:51 <lkj> seriously
4549 2011-03-23 23:19:57 <jgarzik> slush: and you continue to have problems after "rm wallet.dat"?
4550 2011-03-23 23:19:58 <lkj> this is insane
4551 2011-03-23 23:20:02 <molecular> "http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/" -> 404, slush?
4552 2011-03-23 23:20:13 <jrabbit> lkj: mmm?
4553 2011-03-23 23:20:16 <slush> molecular: hehe
4554 2011-03-23 23:20:22 <molecular> slush, what?
4555 2011-03-23 23:20:39 <lkj> so do u pay for bitcoins or what?
4556 2011-03-23 23:20:59 <molecular> slush, what's up, I dont get it
4557 2011-03-23 23:21:14 <slush> molecular: back again
4558 2011-03-23 23:21:29 xsomeguyx has quit (K-Lined)
4559 2011-03-23 23:21:30 <slush> molecular: that's when you have to debug on live site :/
4560 2011-03-23 23:21:39 <molecular> did I hit some 2 minute window?, slush?
4561 2011-03-23 23:21:43 lkj has quit (Client Quit)
4562 2011-03-23 23:21:44 <molecular> yeah, know that problem
4563 2011-03-23 23:21:56 <molecular> shouldn't be having to do that ;)
4564 2011-03-23 23:22:26 <slush> jgarzik: I used completely new wallet (and receive funds to it). I'll try the debug
4565 2011-03-23 23:22:37 <molecular> slush, just switched back to your pool today with half-a-5970
4566 2011-03-23 23:23:05 <molecular> slush, must say the score-based accounting works? do you agree or is there some other abuse-strategy now?
4567 2011-03-23 23:23:36 <KuT-Sickness> when going at 60/65Gh/s how long would it take to get 1 bc
4568 2011-03-23 23:23:42 <slush> molecular: holy-fire proposed something, but I didn't do any analysis of this yet
4569 2011-03-23 23:23:52 <slush> but yes, I'm pretty happy with score based system
4570 2011-03-23 23:23:57 <molecular> KuT-Sickness, you have certainly triggered some invocations of calculation
4571 2011-03-23 23:24:23 <molecular> slush, can you give me a pointer to holy-fire's proposal?
4572 2011-03-23 23:24:37 <KuT-Sickness> hm?
4573 2011-03-23 23:24:42 <KuT-Sickness> I'm fairly new to this molecular ;)
4574 2011-03-23 23:24:52 <slush> molecular: search the forum, please
4575 2011-03-23 23:24:57 <molecular> I saw something stupid in the forums about "getting into the game late"
4576 2011-03-23 23:25:21 <ArtForz> tcatm: http://pastebin.com/gKDma1L0
4577 2011-03-23 23:25:50 <molecular> slush, how to search? "holy-fire" doesn't turn up results.
4578 2011-03-23 23:26:09 <xelister_> I dont understan
4579 2011-03-23 23:26:11 <CIA-96> bitcoin: phantomcircuit <phantomcircuit@covertinferno.org> sqlalchemy * r4ab7552c4477 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/ (net/peer.py storage.py): Improvements made...
4580 2011-03-23 23:26:17 <xelister_> how there can be a cheating strategy ???
4581 2011-03-23 23:26:18 <phantomcircuit> neat
4582 2011-03-23 23:26:19 <xelister_> in pool
4583 2011-03-23 23:26:46 <molecular> xelister_, with slush's pool currently, I think there can't
4584 2011-03-23 23:26:47 <xelister_> no mater at what time you join/part/rejoin pool you still have same amount of chance to mine it solo...
4585 2011-03-23 23:26:55 <xelister_> but with normal pool
4586 2011-03-23 23:27:00 <molecular> "normal"??
4587 2011-03-23 23:27:06 <molecular> share-based?
4588 2011-03-23 23:27:18 <xelister_> ye
4589 2011-03-23 23:27:33 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4590 2011-03-23 23:27:51 <molecular> is there a share-based pool one can join nowadays? which one?
4591 2011-03-23 23:27:53 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
4592 2011-03-23 23:27:59 sgornick has joined
4593 2011-03-23 23:27:59 <xelister_> dunno
4594 2011-03-23 23:28:07 <slush> jgarzik: isnt' there anything secret in debug.log with -debug enabled?
4595 2011-03-23 23:28:11 <xelister_> but how one could cheat shared based? I dont get it
4596 2011-03-23 23:28:25 <slush> jgarzik: you know, I don't want to share parts of private keys etc :)
4597 2011-03-23 23:28:27 <subpar> slush: anything weird going on with confirmations - have some blocks that should have long since been confirmed that are still showing uncofnrimed
4598 2011-03-23 23:28:38 <xelister_> slush: in included base64 encoding of all naked pics from users ~/Photos/
4599 2011-03-23 23:28:44 <jgarzik> slush: there is so much shit in there, who knows.
4600 2011-03-23 23:28:45 <molecular> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3165.0 <- xelister_
4601 2011-03-23 23:28:45 <subpar> err - rewards showing unconfirmed
4602 2011-03-23 23:28:59 <molecular> (optimal pool abuse strategy)
4603 2011-03-23 23:29:10 <xelister_> and this really works?
4604 2011-03-23 23:29:21 <molecular> I haven't tried it myself
4605 2011-03-23 23:29:26 <xelister_> because it sounds like "optimal nounce selection strategy" which is bullshit
4606 2011-03-23 23:29:32 <xelister_> nonce
4607 2011-03-23 23:29:47 <molecular> but I was convinced it works, although at first (and for some time) I couldn't get myself to believe it
4608 2011-03-23 23:30:04 <molecular> xelister_, no, not that
4609 2011-03-23 23:30:15 <slush> subpar: yes, its because I stopped all rewards processing
4610 2011-03-23 23:30:20 <slush> subpar: working on it right now
4611 2011-03-23 23:30:29 <subpar> slush: that explains it...
4612 2011-03-23 23:30:34 <subpar> K - thks
4613 2011-03-23 23:30:45 <tcatm> ArtForz: no improvement (816ms)
4614 2011-03-23 23:31:04 <ArtForz> tcatm: also for the next call (after > 60s) ?
4615 2011-03-23 23:31:10 <xelister_> ArtForz: you read this ideas to "cheat pools" ? is it all bullshit?
4616 2011-03-23 23:31:27 zylche has joined
4617 2011-03-23 23:31:41 <ArtForz> no, it should work against a share-based pool
4618 2011-03-23 23:31:48 <[Tycho]> Oh, "1017 confirmations left"
4619 2011-03-23 23:31:59 <xelister_> ArtForz: really? wow.
4620 2011-03-23 23:32:26 <ArtForz> yeah
4621 2011-03-23 23:32:26 <xelister_> caused it sonds to me like someone saying that if you flip a coin 5 times and get side A, you have now bigger chance to get side B
4622 2011-03-23 23:32:29 roconnor has joined
4623 2011-03-23 23:32:31 <ArtForz> imagine the extreme case
4624 2011-03-23 23:32:33 <tcatm> ArtForz: 663ms
4625 2011-03-23 23:32:54 <ArtForz> okay, guess thats not worth it
4626 2011-03-23 23:35:00 <phantomcircuit> wait a minute
4627 2011-03-23 23:35:10 <phantomcircuit> mining works by setting the difficulty to 1
4628 2011-03-23 23:35:35 <phantomcircuit> so the difficulty is separate from the compact form of the target somehow?
4629 2011-03-23 23:35:45 <ArtForz> no
4630 2011-03-23 23:36:02 <ArtForz> xelister_: imagine you only mine 1 pool share, then mine for yourself
4631 2011-03-23 23:36:21 <ArtForz> *at the start of a round
4632 2011-03-23 23:36:50 <tcatm> subsequent getworks are 660ms +/-4ms
4633 2011-03-23 23:36:51 <phantomcircuit> no i mean how would that work
4634 2011-03-23 23:37:03 <phantomcircuit> if the bits is wrong isn't the hashes being generated useless
4635 2011-03-23 23:37:06 echelon has joined
4636 2011-03-23 23:37:27 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: target repotrted by pool getwork is != actualy block target
4637 2011-03-23 23:37:42 <phantomcircuit> yeah
4638 2011-03-23 23:37:46 <ArtForz> getwork returns target as a additional uint256
4639 2011-03-23 23:37:51 <phantomcircuit> oh
4640 2011-03-23 23:38:06 <ArtForz> so block header has normal difficulty nBits, getwork returns diff 1 equivalent target
4641 2011-03-23 23:38:35 <ArtForz> I have a suspicion
4642 2011-03-23 23:38:57 <ArtForz> later on in CreateNewBlock we do a ConnectInputs
4643 2011-03-23 23:39:14 <ArtForz> iirc that *also* does a disk read ....
4644 2011-03-23 23:39:33 <phantomcircuit> connect inputs is by far the slowest operation
4645 2011-03-23 23:39:35 <phantomcircuit> like
4646 2011-03-23 23:39:39 <phantomcircuit> orders of magnitude
4647 2011-03-23 23:41:13 echelon has left ()
4648 2011-03-23 23:41:22 Cusipzzz has joined
4649 2011-03-23 23:41:32 <ArtForz> well, with fMiner it's not *that* bad
4650 2011-03-23 23:41:36 <tcatm> ArtForz: yep, it does. That's where you cache the nValueIn ;)
4651 2011-03-23 23:42:22 <ArtForz> actually... no
4652 2011-03-23 23:42:34 <ArtForz> it should already cache it on receiving the tx message
4653 2011-03-23 23:43:07 <tcatm> No, I meant it does a disk read.
4654 2011-03-23 23:44:11 <molecular> it seems all agree: there is a diskread in connect inputs.. artforz said it need to be cached and the best place to cache would be on tx receive. right?
4655 2011-03-23 23:44:16 <phantomcircuit> oh and btw
4656 2011-03-23 23:44:18 <phantomcircuit> that pool cheat
4657 2011-03-23 23:44:30 <phantomcircuit> completely ignores the opportunity cost of being part of the pool
4658 2011-03-23 23:45:16 <ArtForz> well, getting rid of the read in the first loop of BuildNewBlock pretty much cut time to 1/3 ...
4659 2011-03-23 23:47:00 <ArtForz> wait a second
4660 2011-03-23 23:47:19 <ArtForz> for a tx to get into the mem pool, doesnt it already have to pass all the ConnectInputs checks anyways?
4661 2011-03-23 23:47:28 <molecular> *CreateNewBlock
4662 2011-03-23 23:47:37 <ArtForz> yeah
4663 2011-03-23 23:47:44 <xelister_> ArtForz: but the time I spend mining 1 share I could spend to have bigger chance of mining the block solo.. why it doesnt add up to the same end result (just one more predictable and one more random)
4664 2011-03-23 23:47:49 <tcatm> yep. ConnectInputs() is required in AcceptToMemoryPool()
4665 2011-03-23 23:48:27 <phantomcircuit> xelister_, exactly
4666 2011-03-23 23:48:44 soultcer has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
4667 2011-03-23 23:49:29 <xelister_> ArtForz: phantomcircuit: that PDF http://bitcoin.atspace.com/poolcheating.pdf has a graph on last page that shows that the adding up is NOT constant "same thing" depending on at what time you 'switch'... but I don't see it using simple logical thinking
4668 2011-03-23 23:49:30 <tcatm> ArtForz: If it somehow leaked through other nodes should reject the block.
4669 2011-03-23 23:49:46 <ArtForz> yea
4670 2011-03-23 23:49:50 <jgarzik> ArtForz: fCheckInputs
4671 2011-03-23 23:50:59 <ArtForz> what about it?
4672 2011-03-23 23:51:17 <ArtForz> check who calls it with fCheckInputs false ;)
4673 2011-03-23 23:51:17 <jgarzik> ArtForz: ConnectInputs is not /required/ in AcceptToMemoryPool
4674 2011-03-23 23:51:31 <jgarzik> fClient (half baked client mode, I know)
4675 2011-03-23 23:52:12 <jgarzik> or all nodes, in Reorganize()
4676 2011-03-23 23:53:08 <molecular> "<ArtForz> check who calls it with fCheckInputs false" <- CTransaction::AcceptToMemoryPool?
4677 2011-03-23 23:53:29 <jgarzik> molecular: yep
4678 2011-03-23 23:53:56 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4679 2011-03-23 23:54:09 * molecular is booting eclipse
4680 2011-03-23 23:54:10 roconnor has left ("Konversation terminated!")
4681 2011-03-23 23:54:15 <phantomcircuit> it strikes me that practically all the algorithmic checks are O(n)
4682 2011-03-23 23:54:30 <molecular> phantomcircuit, what else could they be?
4683 2011-03-23 23:54:31 mehh has joined
4684 2011-03-23 23:54:33 <jgarzik> and SetBestChain() calls Reorganize()
4685 2011-03-23 23:54:51 <ArtForz> O(n**2), like the really old CreateNewBlock
4686 2011-03-23 23:54:53 <phantomcircuit> molecular, well some of them like connecting blocks can use a btree
4687 2011-03-23 23:55:40 <molecular> phantomcircuit, so they're O(n*ln(n)) ?
4688 2011-03-23 23:55:49 <phantomcircuit> something like that
4689 2011-03-23 23:56:31 <molecular> strikes me, too
4690 2011-03-23 23:56:33 <ArtForz> okay... wtf
4691 2011-03-23 23:57:02 <molecular> which fuck, ArtForz?
4692 2011-03-23 23:57:07 <ArtForz> so reorg pushes tx that are in old branch but not in new branch unchecked into mem pool
4693 2011-03-23 23:57:28 <ArtForz> but those can be invalid if they have oldbranch coinbase inputs
4694 2011-03-23 23:57:47 <ArtForz> then we rely on CreateNewBlock to sort em out
4695 2011-03-23 23:57:52 <molecular> reorganize runs on new block?
4696 2011-03-23 23:58:00 <ArtForz> is it me or does that sound bass-ackwards
4697 2011-03-23 23:58:42 <molecular> "oldbranch" (sorry, /me not following)
4698 2011-03-23 23:58:53 <molecular> uh, "oldbranch"?
4699 2011-03-23 23:59:11 * molecular has a suspicion
4700 2011-03-23 23:59:31 <ArtForz> Reorganize
4701 2011-03-23 23:59:43 lfm has joined
4702 2011-03-23 23:59:48 <molecular> looking at it