1 2011-03-25 00:00:34 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
   2 2011-03-25 00:03:54 <Meelu> is the value of bitcoin going to be stable? i mean would it drop
   3 2011-03-25 00:04:11 <Meelu> because im going to make a very good business model using it
   4 2011-03-25 00:04:20 <Meelu> where alot of people are going to use it
   5 2011-03-25 00:04:31 <Meelu> to pay me and to pay them
   6 2011-03-25 00:04:58 theorb has joined
   7 2011-03-25 00:05:03 DATATHE1ST has quit (Quit: Page closed)
   8 2011-03-25 00:05:12 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
   9 2011-03-25 00:05:38 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  10 2011-03-25 00:05:41 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  11 2011-03-25 00:08:20 <phantomcircuit> Meelu, the same as anything else it's value is based on demand
  12 2011-03-25 00:08:21 CyanDynamo has joined
  13 2011-03-25 00:08:50 <Meelu> what so if it gets popular the value wont drop?
  14 2011-03-25 00:09:02 <Meelu> i guess that how it works
  15 2011-03-25 00:09:47 <phantomcircuit> pretty much
  16 2011-03-25 00:11:05 <Meelu> so we are at the stages where although the value already did go up its still not that popular so it should go up more/
  17 2011-03-25 00:11:21 <Meelu> not thast popular yet(
  18 2011-03-25 00:11:22 <Meelu> *
  19 2011-03-25 00:11:26 curiositysquared has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
  20 2011-03-25 00:11:45 <phantomcircuit> Meelu, basically
  21 2011-03-25 00:13:03 xenon481 has joined
  22 2011-03-25 00:15:14 darkskiez has joined
  23 2011-03-25 00:16:13 <CIA-96> bitcoin: phantomcircuit <phantomcircuit@covertinferno.org> sqlalchemy * ra7c7b44b4911 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/ (peer.py storage.py): removed some timing stuff
  24 2011-03-25 00:16:54 <phantomcircuit> ridiculously slow
  25 2011-03-25 00:21:19 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  26 2011-03-25 00:24:19 <andrew12> half an hour since last block? onoe!
  27 2011-03-25 00:25:21 <JFK911> cool maybe difficulty projection will go down
  28 2011-03-25 00:25:36 <andrew12> haha
  29 2011-03-25 00:25:55 <andrew12> ;;apropos bc
  30 2011-03-25 00:25:56 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
  31 2011-03-25 00:26:33 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
  32 2011-03-25 00:26:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114896 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 15 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68973.35367518
  33 2011-03-25 00:26:44 <andrew12> ;;meth calc [bc,blocks]-[bc,nexttarget]
  34 2011-03-25 00:26:45 <gribble> Error: "meth" is not a valid command.
  35 2011-03-25 00:26:50 <andrew12> ;;math calc [bc,blocks]-[bc,nexttarget]
  36 2011-03-25 00:26:51 <gribble> -14
  37 2011-03-25 00:26:52 <andrew12> heh, meth
  38 2011-03-25 00:27:00 <RBecker> andrew12, you trying to get the bot high?
  39 2011-03-25 00:27:06 <andrew12> ;;math calc [bc,nexttarget]-[bc,blocks]
  40 2011-03-25 00:27:07 <gribble> 14
  41 2011-03-25 00:27:14 <andrew12> 14 blocks until retarget :O
  42 2011-03-25 00:27:15 <xenon481> You aren't supposed to request meth in a logged chatroom
  43 2011-03-25 00:27:16 <RBecker> ;;bc,nexttarget
  44 2011-03-25 00:27:16 <gribble> 114911
  45 2011-03-25 00:27:19 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  46 2011-03-25 00:27:20 <RBecker> lul
  47 2011-03-25 00:27:28 mehh has joined
  48 2011-03-25 00:27:43 <andrew12> xenon481: people talk about weed in here all the time
  49 2011-03-25 00:27:48 <andrew12> or is that #bitcoin-otc...
  50 2011-03-25 00:29:28 <RBecker> prob otc
  51 2011-03-25 00:32:42 gruez has joined
  52 2011-03-25 00:33:04 <gruez> how often should i back up wallet.dat?
  53 2011-03-25 00:35:40 <andrew12> you don't need to back it up at all
  54 2011-03-25 00:35:48 <andrew12> but, ideally, whenever you do a transaction
  55 2011-03-25 00:35:53 <andrew12> or you receive one
  56 2011-03-25 00:36:28 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  57 2011-03-25 00:39:16 <gruez> everytime i get a transaction?
  58 2011-03-25 00:39:35 <gruez> i guess i'll have to make a script to do that
  59 2011-03-25 00:39:44 <gruez> transaction volume is rather high for me
  60 2011-03-25 00:39:50 <dirtyfilthy> eh your wallet stores 100 keys
  61 2011-03-25 00:40:37 <dirtyfilthy> only need to back up after you've used 100 keys, either through generating them "new address" or for change transactions
  62 2011-03-25 00:41:36 <gruez> how do i know that i've used 100 keys?
  63 2011-03-25 00:42:01 <dirtyfilthy> you guess :) but yeah that's a flaw it should tell you
  64 2011-03-25 00:42:12 <gruez> :(
  65 2011-03-25 00:42:49 <gruez> are there any other options that does not involve continuous backup?
  66 2011-03-25 00:42:50 <andrew12> gruez: you could use the monitorreceived patch and have some script running al the time to back it up whenever bitcoin tells your script that there's a new tx
  67 2011-03-25 00:43:03 <andrew12> gruez: only other option is no backups at all :\
  68 2011-03-25 00:43:09 <dirtyfilthy> just back it up once a week
  69 2011-03-25 00:43:24 <luke-jr> gruez: you can hack the code to keep a pool of 1000 keys, and automatically backup the wallet when it uses them up
  70 2011-03-25 00:43:25 <gruez> this, i assume
  71 2011-03-25 00:43:29 <gruez> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/pull/24
  72 2011-03-25 00:43:35 <luke-jr> and then a script to detect the backup change, and copy it somewhere
  73 2011-03-25 00:43:43 <slush> does standard bitcoin client broadcast transaction from blocks with >100 confirmations?
  74 2011-03-25 00:43:48 <gruez> sounds complicated
  75 2011-03-25 00:43:56 <gruez> what about 2 accounts?
  76 2011-03-25 00:44:08 <gruez> one for storing my savings
  77 2011-03-25 00:44:16 <gruez> and one for my transactions?
  78 2011-03-25 00:44:21 <gruez> that would work, right?
  79 2011-03-25 00:44:24 <andrew12> gruez: how often do you send bitcoins?
  80 2011-03-25 00:44:36 <gruez> send, not often
  81 2011-03-25 00:44:39 <gruez> recive, a lot
  82 2011-03-25 00:44:46 <andrew12> then once a week should be fine
  83 2011-03-25 00:44:55 <andrew12> or less often if you want
  84 2011-03-25 00:45:05 <gruez> do backups become invalid?
  85 2011-03-25 00:45:15 <andrew12> because new addresses are only used when you send bitcoins
  86 2011-03-25 00:45:23 <gruez> if i restored a backup from 2 weeks ago
  87 2011-03-25 00:45:27 <dirtyfilthy> they become less valid. if they don't include new addreses
  88 2011-03-25 00:45:36 <andrew12> what dirtyfilthy said
  89 2011-03-25 00:45:36 <gruez> do i lose everything i recive in the last 2 weeks?
  90 2011-03-25 00:45:51 <dirtyfilthy> it depend on if you've gone through those 100 keys
  91 2011-03-25 00:46:16 <andrew12> gruez: not unless you sent anything
  92 2011-03-25 00:46:37 <andrew12> gruez: if you leave your bitcoin client off for two weeks, your wallet file hasnt changed
  93 2011-03-25 00:46:53 <andrew12> when you load up the client, it downloads all the latest blocks
  94 2011-03-25 00:47:02 <andrew12> including receiving ones
  95 2011-03-25 00:47:08 <andrew12> er
  96 2011-03-25 00:47:22 <andrew12> andit updates te wallet with your new received transactions
  97 2011-03-25 00:47:24 <gruez> so i should back up when i recive something?
  98 2011-03-25 00:47:31 <andrew12> gruez: no, when you send something
  99 2011-03-25 00:47:37 <gruez> oh ok
 100 2011-03-25 00:47:41 <andrew12> gruez: backups don't become invalid unless you send
 101 2011-03-25 00:47:42 <dirtyfilthy> or generate a new address
 102 2011-03-25 00:47:48 <andrew12> dirtyfilthy: = sending
 103 2011-03-25 00:47:53 <gruez> that seems simple
 104 2011-03-25 00:48:10 <andrew12> dirtyfilthy: well, most of the time :p
 105 2011-03-25 00:48:27 <andrew12> gruez: whenever you do anything that you need to enter an address for in the bitcoin client, you should back it up
 106 2011-03-25 00:48:40 <andrew12> if that makes sense
 107 2011-03-25 00:48:51 <gruez> when a address gets used
 108 2011-03-25 00:48:56 <gruez> does bitcoin generate another one?
 109 2011-03-25 00:49:18 alex___ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 110 2011-03-25 00:49:19 <andrew12> what do you mean "when an address gets used"
 111 2011-03-25 00:49:33 <andrew12> it uses another address in your keypool for change
 112 2011-03-25 00:49:34 <gruez> "your bitcoin address" always seems to have a fresh address every time
 113 2011-03-25 00:49:48 <andrew12> gruez: whenever you send, yeah
 114 2011-03-25 00:49:54 thursday_ has joined
 115 2011-03-25 00:49:57 <andrew12> you can use the same one over and over though
 116 2011-03-25 00:50:06 <gruez> yeah, i know that
 117 2011-03-25 00:50:14 <andrew12> it just changes to whichever one was generated/used last
 118 2011-03-25 00:50:17 <gruez> but it only generates one when it needs one right?
 119 2011-03-25 00:50:22 <andrew12> yes
 120 2011-03-25 00:51:47 <gruez> also, a transaction from 4 hours ago isn't getting any confirmations
 121 2011-03-25 00:52:14 <thursday_> gruez: there's a backlog of unconfirmed tx. is your tx small, and feeless?
 122 2011-03-25 00:52:41 <alias420> what pools do you guys min in?
 123 2011-03-25 00:53:00 * theorbtwo uses slush's pool -- mining.bitcoin.cz
 124 2011-03-25 00:53:12 <gruez> me too
 125 2011-03-25 00:53:19 <gruez> seems to pay higher than bitcoinpool.com
 126 2011-03-25 00:53:30 <gruez> even though that, theoretically, they should pay the same
 127 2011-03-25 00:53:41 <andrew12> ;;bc,blocks
 128 2011-03-25 00:53:42 <gribble> 114899
 129 2011-03-25 00:53:47 <andrew12> hmm...
 130 2011-03-25 00:53:53 <theorbtwo> He takes 2% -- one coin per block of 50.  Not sure how that works out for transaction fees.
 131 2011-03-25 00:54:02 <gruez> he probably keeps it
 132 2011-03-25 00:54:22 <gruez> on a side note
 133 2011-03-25 00:54:27 <gruez> a re-target is happening too
 134 2011-03-25 00:54:35 <theorbtwo> re-target?
 135 2011-03-25 00:54:46 <gruez> it's happening at block #114911
 136 2011-03-25 00:54:55 <gruez> difficulty recalculation
 137 2011-03-25 00:56:59 <jgarzik> slush: not sure what you mean
 138 2011-03-25 00:57:09 <slush> jgarzik: coinbase maturity is 100
 139 2011-03-25 00:57:33 <slush> jgarzik: should be possible to spend the the coins after 100 confirmations, right?
 140 2011-03-25 00:57:39 <luke-jr> no
 141 2011-03-25 00:57:44 <luke-jr> well, yes
 142 2011-03-25 00:57:51 <jgarzik> slush: what does "not accept" mean?  you have a transaction in a block that shows up on blockexplorer.com?
 143 2011-03-25 00:57:53 <luke-jr> but the wx/bitcoind won't do it until like 106
 144 2011-03-25 00:58:12 <jgarzik> slush: normally you can spend as long as a coin has 1 confirmation
 145 2011-03-25 00:58:22 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 146 2011-03-25 00:58:27 <slush> jgarzik: that's the point, client broadcasted the tx, but it is not shown in bitcoincharts.com and was not accepted into any block
 147 2011-03-25 00:58:29 <luke-jr> jgarzik: he said coinbase
 148 2011-03-25 00:58:43 <luke-jr> slush: how do I find the tx?
 149 2011-03-25 00:59:02 <slush> b180b04ca47e6099eb02fbda65c8156250035ad7aa99d0fd8b1b692487665666
 150 2011-03-25 00:59:18 <luke-jr> slush: did you try broadcasting it on a free relay network?
 151 2011-03-25 00:59:22 <slush> I see it in listtransactions, I see in debug that client is broadcasting it, but it's nowhere
 152 2011-03-25 00:59:38 <luke-jr> slush:  -addnode=173.242.112.53
 153 2011-03-25 01:00:05 <slush> luke-jr why?
 154 2011-03-25 01:00:21 <luke-jr> slush: that's the main gateway to free relay net
 155 2011-03-25 01:00:43 <slush> ? didn't see that before
 156 2011-03-25 01:00:54 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy
 157 2011-03-25 01:01:11 <jgarzik> slush: anything at all strange about it?  overly large and no fees?  sendmany with lots of outputs?
 158 2011-03-25 01:02:01 <slush> jgarzik: no, standard 50 BTC payment
 159 2011-03-25 01:02:06 <slush> I forgot to add fees
 160 2011-03-25 01:02:15 <gruez> slush, can you configure your pool
 161 2011-03-25 01:02:20 <gruez> so it makes bigger blocks?
 162 2011-03-25 01:02:23 <slush> but another 50 BTC payment with >120 confirmations is already processed
 163 2011-03-25 01:03:06 <slush> 50BTC payment from block with >120 conf...
 164 2011-03-25 01:03:50 <tcatm> slush: what's the IP of your node that knows about b180b04ca47e6099eb02fbda65c8156250035ad7aa99d0fd8b1b692487665666?
 165 2011-03-25 01:04:00 x420024x has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 166 2011-03-25 01:04:29 <jgarzik> slush: dunno, and deep into debugging another problem right now.  would help to dump the transaction.
 167 2011-03-25 01:05:03 <jgarzik> slush: presumably it just missed getting relayed.  restarting the node should retransmit.  you can connect directly to bitcoincharts.com (`host bitcoincharts.com`) to make sure your unconfirmed TX shows up there.
 168 2011-03-25 01:05:33 <slush> tcatm: 178.79.155.53
 169 2011-03-25 01:06:56 <slush> under which rules client retransmit transaction? I though it broadcast only once and wait to block...
 170 2011-03-25 01:08:57 <tcatm> it won't let me connect
 171 2011-03-25 01:10:27 <slush> well, I finally see the problem
 172 2011-03-25 01:10:38 <phantomcircuit> lol oh wow this is slow
 173 2011-03-25 01:10:41 devrandom has joined
 174 2011-03-25 01:10:48 <phantomcircuit> it took almost 20 minutes to load the first 1000 blocks
 175 2011-03-25 01:10:50 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
 176 2011-03-25 01:10:50 <slush> the sending bitcoin client is behind next one (sitting on the ip .53)
 177 2011-03-25 01:11:04 <slush> but there is limitfreerelay and the node was out of free tx
 178 2011-03-25 01:11:18 mehh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 179 2011-03-25 01:11:22 <slush> as I forgot to add fees, the node blocked transaction and it was not broadcasted to the rest of the network ;))
 180 2011-03-25 01:11:43 <slush> facepalm
 181 2011-03-25 01:13:43 noagendamarket has joined
 182 2011-03-25 01:14:13 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> combo * r0c1042da7267 bitcoind-personal/.gitignore: ignore stuff
 183 2011-03-25 01:14:15 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> combo * r06eb1fc7748d bitcoind-personal/ (main.cpp main.h rpc.cpp serialize.h): Merge branch 'LJR-combo-2' into LJR-combo-3
 184 2011-03-25 01:14:16 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * rc3f140033c53 bitcoind-personal/init.cpp: catch SIGINT, SIGHUP and SIGSEGV and shutdown cleanly
 185 2011-03-25 01:14:21 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Santiago M. Mola <coldwind@coldwind.org> combo * rf30dabb2ace0 bitcoind-personal/locale/es/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po: Update Spanish translation.
 186 2011-03-25 01:14:24 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * r2abd56f4280c bitcoind-personal/main.cpp: Merge branch 'limitfree' of /Users/gavin/src/integration_btc
 187 2011-03-25 01:14:26 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * rdfd059173d91 bitcoind-personal/main.cpp: Merge branch 'subcent-change' of https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin
 188 2011-03-25 01:14:28 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * rf4f2987273a9 bitcoind-personal/ (uibase.cpp uibase.h uiproject.fbp): remove from/message field from uiproject
 189 2011-03-25 01:14:31 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * r448b4516ff98 bitcoind-personal/net.cpp: dnsseed: fix printf
 190 2011-03-25 01:14:33 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * re1205e4d1540 bitcoind-personal/init.cpp: -help: do not show -server and -daemon in bitcoind
 191 2011-03-25 01:14:35 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * r3a47bf72658b bitcoind-personal/init.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
 192 2011-03-25 01:14:36 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * r8203ec4b1142 bitcoind-personal/locale/ (es/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.mo nl/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.mo): [locale] Regenerate es, nl binary message catalogs
 193 2011-03-25 01:14:38 <luke-jr> hmm
 194 2011-03-25 01:14:38 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * r0b8e4738f90d bitcoind-personal/locale/es/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/smola/bitcoin into tmp
 195 2011-03-25 01:14:39 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * rd38e683a6f61 bitcoind-personal/locale/nl/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po: Merge branch 'dutchloc' of https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin into tmp
 196 2011-03-25 01:14:42 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * r1c09a4adb20a bitcoind-personal/init.cpp: daemon-mode: add sleep() loop to prevent defunct child process, call setsid() in child
 197 2011-03-25 01:14:43 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> combo * r7e10ffa17f4f bitcoind-personal/serialize.h: pszSubVer .ljr2
 198 2011-03-25 01:14:44 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Sven Slootweg <info@sven-slootweg.nl> combo * ra07dca7cd201 bitcoind-personal/locale/nl/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po: Updated dutch translation
 199 2011-03-25 01:14:46 <phantomcircuit> ropfl
 200 2011-03-25 01:14:47 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * rb7ebc662eb18 bitcoind-personal/ (uibase.cpp uiproject.fbp): Update copyright in About box from 2010 to 2011
 201 2011-03-25 01:14:48 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * re2e5f5cd9da7 bitcoind-personal/ (init.cpp util.cpp util.h): Fix -logtimestamps to only print time prefix once per output line
 202 2011-03-25 01:14:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oops?
 203 2011-03-25 01:14:50 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * r27b7f3b43a38 bitcoind-personal/ (main.cpp net.h): Merge branch 'shy'
 204 2011-03-25 01:14:51 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * r4b88647966a1 bitcoind-personal/ (init.cpp net.cpp net.h): Merge branch 'dns-seed' of https://github.com/jgarzik/bitcoin
 205 2011-03-25 01:14:54 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * rd43fd8a038b7 bitcoind-personal/util.cpp: Merge branch 'log-timestamp' of https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin
 206 2011-03-25 01:14:54 <jgarzik> what is all this crap?
 207 2011-03-25 01:14:55 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * r1bf9b3b06f48 bitcoind-personal/ (init.cpp util.cpp util.h): Merge branch 'daemon-mode' of https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin
 208 2011-03-25 01:14:58 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * rb931ed8563ef bitcoind-personal/ (main.cpp main.h rpc.cpp): sendmany RPC command, to send to multiple recipients in one transaction.
 209 2011-03-25 01:14:58 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * r88abf70386f1 bitcoind-personal/main.cpp: Make sure rate-limiting code is thread-safe
 210 2011-03-25 01:15:00 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * r5de8b54c5138 bitcoind-personal/main.cpp: Continuously rate-limit free transactions. Changed algorithm to use continuous exponential function instead of discrete 10-minute window. Changed -limitfreerelay to be kilobytes-per-minute instead of boolean.
 211 2011-03-25 01:15:01 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Matt Corallo <matt@bluematt.me> combo * rca221e6c21d6 bitcoind-personal/util.cpp: Only log timestamps if -logtimestamps is set.
 212 2011-03-25 01:15:02 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Matt Corallo <matt@bluematt.me> combo * rfe460d47b06d bitcoind-personal/util.cpp: Add timestamp prefix to each line in the debug log (this time with human-readable times)
 213 2011-03-25 01:15:05 <luke-jr> perhaps next time I should merge the other direction
 214 2011-03-25 01:15:05 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org> combo * rf684aec4f38d bitcoind-personal/ (init.cpp net.cpp net.h): DNS seeding
 215 2011-03-25 01:15:06 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> combo * rcbc920d474b8 bitcoind-personal/ (main.cpp net.h): shy patch from Hal
 216 2011-03-25 01:15:07 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * rea7cd317516a bitcoind-personal/init.cpp: force fDaemon in bitcoind
 217 2011-03-25 01:15:10 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * ra79409afa9c5 bitcoind-personal/init.cpp: fix whitespace
 218 2011-03-25 01:15:11 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm <tcatm@gawab.com> combo * rdda48ccd0f7c bitcoind-personal/ (init.cpp util.cpp util.h): fix -daemon switch
 219 2011-03-25 01:15:13 <luke-jr> or turn CIA off before pushing it
 220 2011-03-25 01:15:32 <phantomcircuit> seriously though
 221 2011-03-25 01:15:45 <luke-jr> also, isn't it backward? O.o
 222 2011-03-25 01:15:45 <phantomcircuit> sqlite is taking 0.003 seconds to do a simple select
 223 2011-03-25 01:16:00 <tcatm> luke-jr: is that your repo?
 224 2011-03-25 01:16:08 <luke-jr> yeah, I just rebuilt it from master
 225 2011-03-25 01:16:20 <tcatm> turn CIA off for this channel
 226 2011-03-25 01:16:26 unping has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 227 2011-03-25 01:16:49 <phantomcircuit> just connecting the blocks together will take well over 5 minutes at that rate
 228 2011-03-25 01:18:36 <thursday_> phantomcircuit: so do a complex select :)
 229 2011-03-25 01:18:51 <thursday_> instead of thousands of simple ones
 230 2011-03-25 01:19:40 <phantomcircuit> thursday_, im walking the block chain
 231 2011-03-25 01:19:44 <tcatm> what are you doing? select * from blocks where hash = $prevhash?
 232 2011-03-25 01:19:45 <phantomcircuit> there is literally no way to do that
 233 2011-03-25 01:19:57 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, yeah basically
 234 2011-03-25 01:19:59 wolfspraul has joined
 235 2011-03-25 01:20:09 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, except in reverse
 236 2011-03-25 01:20:17 <phantomcircuit> select * from blocks where prev_hash = hash;
 237 2011-03-25 01:20:26 <phantomcircuit> magic i found all the possible next blocks
 238 2011-03-25 01:21:02 <phantomcircuit> problem is that sqlite can only do a tiny number of transactions/second
 239 2011-03-25 01:22:13 <CIA-96> bitcoin: phantomcircuit <phantomcircuit@covertinferno.org> sqlalchemy * rd8645698a0b6 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/peer.py: Attempted to improve performance... failed
 240 2011-03-25 01:22:21 <phantomcircuit> ^_^
 241 2011-03-25 01:23:02 <tcatm> hm this could be useful during blockdownload (of another client)
 242 2011-03-25 01:24:33 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: well, you can tweak sqlite transaction fsync strategy and other details, to gain performance
 243 2011-03-25 01:24:54 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: also, multi-process or multi-thread sqlite isn't as snappy as single-thread
 244 2011-03-25 01:25:05 <jgarzik> (multi-handle or multi-process, to be specific)
 245 2011-03-25 01:25:08 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 246 2011-03-25 01:25:19 jnd has joined
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 251 2011-03-25 01:30:23 jostmey has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 252 2011-03-25 01:30:42 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: are you compiling the query?
 253 2011-03-25 01:31:21 <jnd> ;;bc,stats
 254 2011-03-25 01:31:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114905 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 6 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 3 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68976.67683808
 255 2011-03-25 01:34:47 sabalaba has joined
 256 2011-03-25 01:35:27 <thursday_> ooh one hour!
 257 2011-03-25 01:35:39 <thursday_> any bets on whether it'll break 69000 ? :)
 258 2011-03-25 01:36:02 theymos has joined
 259 2011-03-25 01:37:28 <luke-jr> meh, sure
 260 2011-03-25 01:38:13 <thursday_> yea, it's pretty close, so unless the network gets unlucky, i think it'll pull over 69k
 261 2011-03-25 01:38:27 <luke-jr> I'm betting 1 BTC that it won't break 69000
 262 2011-03-25 01:38:30 <luke-jr> who's betting against me?
 263 2011-03-25 01:38:48 <luke-jr> you mean lucky
 264 2011-03-25 01:38:49 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: I can fetch the chain with 1.69ms/block
 265 2011-03-25 01:38:56 <tcatm> pretty slow...
 266 2011-03-25 01:39:17 <luke-jr> [Friday, January 21, 2011] [5:41:09 am] <gribble>   Current Blocks: 103819 | Current Difficulty: 18437.64439217 | Next Difficulty At Block: 104831 | Next Difficulty In: 1011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 22020.28147639
 267 2011-03-25 01:39:39 <luke-jr> thursday_: so if it's > 69000, I pay you 1 BTC; if it's <= 69000, you pay me 1 BTC?
 268 2011-03-25 01:40:03 <lfm> wht if it is equal?
 269 2011-03-25 01:40:10 <lfm> nm
 270 2011-03-25 01:40:12 <luke-jr> …
 271 2011-03-25 01:40:27 <luke-jr> ≤ :P
 272 2011-03-25 01:41:05 <luke-jr> thursday_: we got a bet⁇
 273 2011-03-25 01:41:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 274 2011-03-25 01:41:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114906 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 52 minutes and 55 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68986.64824838
 275 2011-03-25 01:41:45 <thursday_> luke-jr: hehe i was using 'bet' in the loose sense of the word, of "what do you think" :)
 276 2011-03-25 01:41:51 <luke-jr> thursday_: so no bet?
 277 2011-03-25 01:41:55 <thursday_> if i had to bet money, i'd bet on >69k myself. :)
 278 2011-03-25 01:42:02 <luke-jr> that's what I'm saying
 279 2011-03-25 01:42:13 <thursday_> ah
 280 2011-03-25 01:42:18 <luke-jr> <= 69k, you pay me; > 69k, I pay you
 281 2011-03-25 01:42:20 <luke-jr> just 1 BTC
 282 2011-03-25 01:42:24 <thursday_> well, ok, i'm willing to risk 1btc on that, sure. :)
 283 2011-03-25 01:42:55 kiba has joined
 284 2011-03-25 01:44:39 RichardG has joined
 285 2011-03-25 01:45:07 <thursday_> luke-jr: pm?
 286 2011-03-25 01:45:27 <luke-jr> k
 287 2011-03-25 01:45:40 Wack0 has joined
 288 2011-03-25 01:45:59 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 289 2011-03-25 01:46:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114907 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 4 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 42 minutes and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68997.73097498
 290 2011-03-25 01:46:05 <luke-jr> >_<
 291 2011-03-25 01:46:11 <luke-jr> thursday_: did you just start more miners?
 292 2011-03-25 01:47:05 HarryS has joined
 293 2011-03-25 01:48:33 <thursday_> luke-jr: haha yes, all so i could win 1 btc, sure :P
 294 2011-03-25 01:50:15 <theymos> I'm pretty sure it will go above 69k. Average interval since the last retarget is 663 seconds, and the recent interval has been significantly lower.
 295 2011-03-25 01:54:20 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 296 2011-03-25 01:54:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114908 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 3 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 31 minutes and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 69006.59972043
 297 2011-03-25 01:54:26 <luke-jr> crap
 298 2011-03-25 01:55:04 <theymos> It could still go down, if miners are unlucky.
 299 2011-03-25 01:56:20 * Beremat ramps up 50 5970s
 300 2011-03-25 01:57:24 <luke-jr> Beremat: wait
 301 2011-03-25 01:57:25 <luke-jr> !
 302 2011-03-25 01:57:46 <thursday_> haha
 303 2011-03-25 01:58:13 * thursday_ ramps up a pentium3
 304 2011-03-25 01:58:18 <Beremat> uh oh
 305 2011-03-25 01:58:20 <Beremat> now it's gotten serious
 306 2011-03-25 01:58:27 * luke-jr DDoS ArtForz
 307 2011-03-25 01:58:56 <lfm> send me 0.10 and Ill shut down 370Mh/s
 308 2011-03-25 01:59:29 <Beremat> send me 0.10 and Ill also shut down ~420mh/s
 309 2011-03-25 01:59:54 <luke-jr> 0.05 ea
 310 2011-03-25 01:59:56 <luke-jr> deal?
 311 2011-03-25 02:00:11 <luke-jr> conditional on me winning this ofc
 312 2011-03-25 02:00:21 <lfm> itd be a bad investment cuz there is no way of verifying if we do
 313 2011-03-25 02:00:31 <tcatm> I'll shut down 3.5Ghash/s for 1.04 BTC
 314 2011-03-25 02:00:31 <thursday_> check their otc trust rating. :)
 315 2011-03-25 02:01:24 <thursday_> haha
 316 2011-03-25 02:01:25 <thursday_> ;;bc,stats
 317 2011-03-25 02:01:26 <xenon481> I'll shut down 50Mhash/s for 10.0BTC
 318 2011-03-25 02:01:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114908 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 3 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 31 minutes and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 69006.59972043
 319 2011-03-25 02:01:27 <Beremat> forgive me if I'm being nosy, but how much power does ArtForz have?
 320 2011-03-25 02:01:39 <xenon481> ;)
 321 2011-03-25 02:02:04 <luke-jr> Beremat: 20%?
 322 2011-03-25 02:02:32 <Beremat> that's huge
 323 2011-03-25 02:02:38 <thursday_> last report has it at about 30ghps
 324 2011-03-25 02:02:49 <thursday_> not even 10%
 325 2011-03-25 02:03:44 <Beremat> that's like 5.5%
 326 2011-03-25 02:03:46 <Beremat> still huge
 327 2011-03-25 02:04:35 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 328 2011-03-25 02:06:26 <gasteve> hit an issue that I've never seen before...there's a transaction that went into a "0/offline?" status...after a restart, it seems bitcoin is back online, but it doesn't seem to be trying to re-broadcast that transaction
 329 2011-03-25 02:06:43 <thursday_> gasteve: how long have you been online?
 330 2011-03-25 02:06:43 <theymos> It'll rebroadcast in about 30 minutes.
 331 2011-03-25 02:06:48 <gasteve> is there any way to force it to rebroadcast?
 332 2011-03-25 02:06:55 <theymos> No.
 333 2011-03-25 02:07:02 <gasteve> seems like that would be a nice feature
 334 2011-03-25 02:07:11 <lfm> the easy way is wait 30 min
 335 2011-03-25 02:07:15 <thursday_> mmm maybe there should be a 'bitcoind forcerebroadcast' to rebroadcast unconf tx
 336 2011-03-25 02:07:33 <gasteve> would be nice ;)
 337 2011-03-25 02:07:43 <thursday_> gasteve: well, what are you waiting for? get coding :P
 338 2011-03-25 02:07:45 <thursday_> eheh
 339 2011-03-25 02:07:48 <lfm> that would make spammers life too easy
 340 2011-03-25 02:07:59 <gasteve> i am coding...just on something different
 341 2011-03-25 02:08:24 <lfm> maye allow it if oyu add a fee
 342 2011-03-25 02:08:25 <gasteve> maybe just make it a gui option (a serious spammer wouldn't be using the GUI)
 343 2011-03-25 02:08:40 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 344 2011-03-25 02:08:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114908 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 3 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 31 minutes and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 69006.59972043
 345 2011-03-25 02:08:51 <thursday_> come on blocks!!
 346 2011-03-25 02:08:52 <thursday_> heh
 347 2011-03-25 02:09:04 * luke-jr cackles
 348 2011-03-25 02:09:10 <thursday_> lfm: well, other nodes won't pass it on if they already have it.
 349 2011-03-25 02:09:19 <thursday_> lfm: so it won't really help with spamming.
 350 2011-03-25 02:09:33 <thursday_> it'll only help if a tx didn't get out to the net.
 351 2011-03-25 02:10:52 <lfm> seems there should be the option of adding a fee to boost priority tho
 352 2011-03-25 02:11:08 <theymos> Rebroadcasting frequently actually hurts propagation.
 353 2011-03-25 02:11:13 Ruudjah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 354 2011-03-25 02:11:19 sgornick has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 355 2011-03-25 02:11:34 <luke-jr> lfm: there is, just not implemented
 356 2011-03-25 02:11:46 <tcatm> theymos: why?
 357 2011-03-25 02:11:46 <lfm> seem it should be implemented
 358 2011-03-25 02:11:48 sgornick has joined
 359 2011-03-25 02:11:49 <gasteve> actually, I'd be happy if the blocks took a long time...then the difficulty might go down by even more
 360 2011-03-25 02:12:22 Ruudjah has joined
 361 2011-03-25 02:12:38 <Beremat> ;;bc,stats
 362 2011-03-25 02:12:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114909 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 21 minutes and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68984.43213029
 363 2011-03-25 02:12:45 <luke-jr> :D
 364 2011-03-25 02:13:01 <theymos> tcatm: It creates a "wall" of peers around you. The peers already have the tx, so they're not sending it on, but they are updating the "last seen" time for that tx (I think).
 365 2011-03-25 02:13:09 <luke-jr> gasteve: I'm betting on it being <69000
 366 2011-03-25 02:13:11 <luke-jr> literally
 367 2011-03-25 02:14:37 <gasteve> theymos: but this is a case where the peers have never seen the transaction because it was never successfully broadcast in the first place
 368 2011-03-25 02:14:44 <theymos> Right.
 369 2011-03-25 02:14:59 <theymos> It hurts propagation if it has gotten out, though.
 370 2011-03-25 02:15:15 <gasteve> so, an option to force the broadcast of any unbroadcast transactions would be nice
 371 2011-03-25 02:15:26 <tcatm> I can't find a "last seen" to transactions in the code.
 372 2011-03-25 02:16:18 <theymos> Actually, there isn't one. They never expire, which still creates the effect, but worse. (Forgot about this.)
 373 2011-03-25 02:16:47 <theymos> Or they expire when the node restarts, rather.
 374 2011-03-25 02:17:47 <tcatm> What was the reason for limitfreerelay again?
 375 2011-03-25 02:18:05 <theymos> It limits the number of free transactions you will relay in an hour.
 376 2011-03-25 02:18:21 <tcatm> yeah, but why do we need that?
 377 2011-03-25 02:18:48 <jgarzik> tcatm: prevents a flood of TXs from bursting the cache all at once
 378 2011-03-25 02:18:52 <theymos> It stops them from filling the network with spam messages.
 379 2011-03-25 02:23:53 <Beremat> ;;bc,stats
 380 2011-03-25 02:23:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114910 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 minutes and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68984.43213029
 381 2011-03-25 02:24:03 <Beremat> hnnng this is going to be really close
 382 2011-03-25 02:24:10 <luke-jr> thursday_: :D
 383 2011-03-25 02:27:08 <gasteve> someone should start a pool on the next difficulty
 384 2011-03-25 02:29:35 Bosma has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
 385 2011-03-25 02:29:41 thursday_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 386 2011-03-25 02:30:25 * subpar might go back to solo mining 
 387 2011-03-25 02:32:57 * kiba wrote a brand new article for The Bitcoin Weekly
 388 2011-03-25 02:36:19 <Beremat> ;;bc,stats
 389 2011-03-25 02:36:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114911 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 28 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68977.78463020
 390 2011-03-25 02:36:26 <[Tycho]> gasteve, why ?
 391 2011-03-25 02:36:39 <kiba> WHY?
 392 2011-03-25 02:36:56 <slush> ;;bc,stats
 393 2011-03-25 02:36:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114911 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 68977.78463020
 394 2011-03-25 02:37:09 <theymos> Looks like luke-jr won.
 395 2011-03-25 02:37:24 <luke-jr> :D
 396 2011-03-25 02:38:03 <gasteve> [Tycho]: luke-jr betting on it made me think of a pool
 397 2011-03-25 02:38:12 <luke-jr> #bitcoin-mining [21:55:32] <luke-jr> everyone shutdown miners to sandbox next difficulty plz
 398 2011-03-25 02:41:50 <devrandom> ;;bc,stats
 399 2011-03-25 02:41:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114912 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 23 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 275911.13852083
 400 2011-03-25 02:42:14 <luke-jr> 68978.89245792
 401 2011-03-25 02:42:53 <Beremat> Next Difficulty Estimate: 275911.13852083
 402 2011-03-25 02:43:08 <xenon481> ha
 403 2011-03-25 02:43:19 <Beremat> let's all keep being lucky
 404 2011-03-25 02:43:27 <gruez> NEW BLOCKS?
 405 2011-03-25 02:43:29 * jgarzik agrees with luke-jr: everybody should stop mining, please.  maybe if slush and [Tycho] will shut down their pools too.
 406 2011-03-25 02:43:31 <gruez> NEW DIFFICULTY?
 407 2011-03-25 02:43:37 <gruez> has it gone up, or down?
 408 2011-03-25 02:43:38 <jgarzik> (and maybe my miner would find a block or two, then)
 409 2011-03-25 02:43:39 <jgarzik> :)
 410 2011-03-25 02:43:51 <jgarzik> gruez: yes
 411 2011-03-25 02:44:01 <gruez> YES
 412 2011-03-25 02:44:04 <[Tycho]> My mining is lucky today.
 413 2011-03-25 02:44:06 <xenon481> yes
 414 2011-03-25 02:44:51 <devrandom> okay, this is going to be astronomical
 415 2011-03-25 02:44:53 <devrandom> ;;bc,stats
 416 2011-03-25 02:44:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114913 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 2014 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 54 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 275911.13852083
 417 2011-03-25 02:44:57 <[Tycho]> Average shares per block in last half day is 35k ^)
 418 2011-03-25 02:45:16 <devrandom> oh, it doesn't update on every block
 419 2011-03-25 02:45:30 <subpar> [Tycho]: agreed - great day today
 420 2011-03-25 02:45:30 <gruez> Next Difficulty Estimate: 275911.13852083
 421 2011-03-25 02:45:31 <slush> [Tycho]: I noticed the same yesterday
 422 2011-03-25 02:45:31 <gruez> lolwut?
 423 2011-03-25 02:45:39 <gruez> 275911!?!?!
 424 2011-03-25 02:45:42 <subpar> gruez: it will normalize
 425 2011-03-25 02:45:48 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 275911
 426 2011-03-25 02:45:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 275911, is 7 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 10 minutes, and 6 seconds
 427 2011-03-25 02:45:49 <Beremat> pf, 275911 is nothing
 428 2011-03-25 02:45:53 <slush> [Tycho]: such variance is quite interesting
 429 2011-03-25 02:46:25 <subpar> ;;bc,calc 540000
 430 2011-03-25 02:46:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 540000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 6 days, 8 hours, 23 minutes, and 53 seconds
 431 2011-03-25 02:46:39 <theymos> The estimate only looks at blocks since the last retarget. The reason the estimates for the last two blocks have been the same is that the 4x rule was triggered.
 432 2011-03-25 02:46:39 <[Tycho]> slush, yesterday i had a nice sequence of blocks, fitting in a vertical line of shares/block graph :)
 433 2011-03-25 02:46:55 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 68978.8924
 434 2011-03-25 02:46:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 68978.8924, is 1 week, 5 days, 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 50 seconds
 435 2011-03-25 02:47:03 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
 436 2011-03-25 02:47:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 week, 5 days, 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 50 seconds
 437 2011-03-25 02:47:23 <devrandom> theymos - gotcha
 438 2011-03-25 02:48:51 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/hg.gif
 439 2011-03-25 02:49:16 <slush> :)
 440 2011-03-25 02:49:31 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
 441 2011-03-25 02:49:47 <gruez> [Tycho], slush, since you two are pool owners
 442 2011-03-25 02:49:59 <gruez> would you two consider making blocks bigger?
 443 2011-03-25 02:51:34 <gruez> so there can be more free transactions?
 444 2011-03-25 02:51:34 <slush> gruez: I'm currently limiting them because of performance issues
 445 2011-03-25 02:51:34 unk has joined
 446 2011-03-25 02:51:34 <[Tycho]> I tried already, it's useless.
 447 2011-03-25 02:51:34 <gruez> :/
 448 2011-03-25 02:51:34 <slush> but as it will be solved, I'm open to make blocks bigger
 449 2011-03-25 02:51:34 <[Tycho]> When the flood started, I included up to 100 Kb of flood txes in each block. But now he just generates them faster.
 450 2011-03-25 02:51:36 <tcatm> gruez: most free tx get into blocks quickly
 451 2011-03-25 02:51:49 <theymos> If real transactions are not getting in, then the priority algorithm needs to be improved.
 452 2011-03-25 02:52:11 <[Tycho]> Looks like it's mostly fine with real txses now.
 453 2011-03-25 02:52:16 <gruez> i think there's a backlog of transactions right now
 454 2011-03-25 02:52:31 <tcatm> yep. mostly spam
 455 2011-03-25 02:52:33 <gruez> a transaction from ~4 hours ago did not recive one confirmation
 456 2011-03-25 02:52:45 Cusipzzz has joined
 457 2011-03-25 03:02:31 dissipate has joined
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 460 2011-03-25 03:04:02 gruez has left ()
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 463 2011-03-25 03:05:42 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 464 2011-03-25 03:07:34 luke-jr has joined
 465 2011-03-25 03:07:49 alex5771 has joined
 466 2011-03-25 03:07:49 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 467 2011-03-25 03:09:48 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 468 2011-03-25 03:12:36 <alex5771> hi
 469 2011-03-25 03:14:37 Stellar has joined
 470 2011-03-25 03:14:42 <dissipate> alex5771, hello
 471 2011-03-25 03:15:39 <alex5771> question with possibly not very ethical/evil intenet write miner in ecmaScript or ActionScript put it on websites and let visitors generate coins for the site owner?
 472 2011-03-25 03:15:50 <alex5771> any comments?
 473 2011-03-25 03:16:08 <[Tycho]> Useless.
 474 2011-03-25 03:16:24 <alex5771> why too slow?
 475 2011-03-25 03:16:55 <[Tycho]> Ineffective CPU miner won't mine almost anything even with 1000s of users.
 476 2011-03-25 03:17:08 <[Tycho]> It's cheaper to buy one GPU instead :)
 477 2011-03-25 03:17:21 <alex5771> so cpu mining is basicly dead?
 478 2011-03-25 03:17:25 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 479 2011-03-25 03:17:51 <lfm> ''bc,stats
 480 2011-03-25 03:18:03 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 481 2011-03-25 03:18:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114916 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 17 hours, 26 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 179318.33443719
 482 2011-03-25 03:18:21 <alex5771> what about Amazon's Tesla GPU cloud,anybody used that?
 483 2011-03-25 03:18:41 <dissipate> alex5771, not cost effective
 484 2011-03-25 03:18:41 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 485 2011-03-25 03:18:44 <lfm> tesla is soso for bitcoin
 486 2011-03-25 03:18:59 <dissipate> isn't it like $2 an hour or something?
 487 2011-03-25 03:19:24 <[Tycho]> 1) nVidia is really inferior, 2) it's many times more expensive than buying a GPU
 488 2011-03-25 03:19:45 <alex5771> what u mean,is not nvidia a GPU?
 489 2011-03-25 03:19:53 <lfm> 3 amazon overcharges
 490 2011-03-25 03:19:55 <luke-jr> nvidia is a crappy GPU
 491 2011-03-25 03:20:01 <[Tycho]> I mean real GPU, like ATI :)
 492 2011-03-25 03:20:01 <luke-jr> you need a good GPU, eg AMD
 493 2011-03-25 03:20:12 <alex5771> ok
 494 2011-03-25 03:20:23 <lfm> alex5771: the amd/ati structure works much better for bitcoin type problems
 495 2011-03-25 03:20:23 <xenon481> I think alex was talking about "stealing" the computing power of people that stumbled across the script silently embeded in the website.
 496 2011-03-25 03:20:36 <alex5771> chanel bitcoin-watch what is it,just current transactions and exchange rates?
 497 2011-03-25 03:20:38 <[Tycho]> xenon481, yes.
 498 2011-03-25 03:21:01 <xenon481> as such, why would he care about the cost?
 499 2011-03-25 03:21:16 <lfm> xenon481: well ya if you have a free botnet you could try to clean up
 500 2011-03-25 03:21:21 <luke-jr> alex5771: current transactions and trades
 501 2011-03-25 03:21:22 <alex5771> xenon481:yes however even with a few K users its not practicle,from what ppl explain,unless one can access OpenCL
 502 2011-03-25 03:21:23 <[Tycho]> Such script will be a few times slower than real compiled software.
 503 2011-03-25 03:21:39 <luke-jr> in realtime
 504 2011-03-25 03:21:47 <lfm> alex5771: why couldnt you
 505 2011-03-25 03:21:49 <Beremat> WebCL is coming up
 506 2011-03-25 03:21:57 <[Tycho]> xenon481, your time to develop this would cost you more :)
 507 2011-03-25 03:22:04 x420024x has joined
 508 2011-03-25 03:22:10 <alex5771> Beremat:interesting....
 509 2011-03-25 03:23:35 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
 510 2011-03-25 03:31:02 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 511 2011-03-25 03:31:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114918 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 2009 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 8 hours, 53 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 108222.08738597
 512 2011-03-25 03:31:11 <JFK911> Next Difficulty Estimate:  179318.33443719
 513 2011-03-25 03:31:14 <JFK911> great
 514 2011-03-25 03:31:16 knotwork_ has joined
 515 2011-03-25 03:32:46 <[Tycho]> FairUser's ad :) "The server is running directly on hardware dedicated to this pool.  It is not running on a VPS on a over loaded server like some other pools"
 516 2011-03-25 03:32:48 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 517 2011-03-25 03:33:06 <[Tycho]> It's his way to say that he is running his server at home :)
 518 2011-03-25 03:33:22 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 519 2011-03-25 03:35:05 jostmey has joined
 520 2011-03-25 03:36:15 <afed_> haha what the hell is going on
 521 2011-03-25 03:37:33 NickelBot has joined
 522 2011-03-25 03:38:56 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 523 2011-03-25 03:39:13 bitcoiner has joined
 524 2011-03-25 03:40:50 jostmey has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 525 2011-03-25 03:41:30 FellowTraveler has joined
 526 2011-03-25 03:42:02 <FellowTraveler> hi all
 527 2011-03-25 03:42:10 <[Tycho]> Hello.
 528 2011-03-25 03:42:19 * kiba wonders how he should fund his magazine
 529 2011-03-25 03:43:39 <AmpEater> magazine should fund self
 530 2011-03-25 03:45:16 <kiba> trying to figure out a business model here
 531 2011-03-25 03:45:20 baaaacon has joined
 532 2011-03-25 03:45:31 <AmpEater> what zine we talking?
 533 2011-03-25 03:45:40 baaaaaacon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 534 2011-03-25 03:46:38 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 535 2011-03-25 03:46:53 <afed_> ;;bc,calc 1300000
 536 2011-03-25 03:46:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 2 days, 15 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds
 537 2011-03-25 03:56:50 alex5771 has quit (Quit: alex5771)
 538 2011-03-25 03:57:02 Bosma has joined
 539 2011-03-25 03:58:50 bt2100 has joined
 540 2011-03-25 04:03:21 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
 541 2011-03-25 04:03:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114921 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 2006 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 34 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 95427.41706845
 542 2011-03-25 04:05:11 <midnightmagic> Bitcoin Times isn't it?
 543 2011-03-25 04:05:24 <kiba> Bitcoin Times?
 544 2011-03-25 04:05:28 <kiba> it doesn't exists
 545 2011-03-25 04:05:34 <kiba> anymore
 546 2011-03-25 04:05:36 <midnightmagic> what's your zine
 547 2011-03-25 04:05:38 <kiba> The Bitcoin Weekly does
 548 2011-03-25 04:05:43 <midnightmagic> ok
 549 2011-03-25 04:06:05 <kiba> it seems that my former employer just gave up :D
 550 2011-03-25 04:06:10 <midnightmagic> ฿ for classifieds, ฿ for ads, ฿ payouts from income, to writers.
 551 2011-03-25 04:06:13 * kiba is very determined
 552 2011-03-25 04:06:42 <kiba> to be fair, he's just a high school kid
 553 2011-03-25 04:06:46 <kiba> and I am a collge student
 554 2011-03-25 04:06:48 <midnightmagic> find writers who are willing to take %x
 555 2011-03-25 04:07:01 <kiba> I paid a writer 5 BTC for a while
 556 2011-03-25 04:07:29 <bt2100> if there was a site that allowed people to write things for specific functions for btc i'd be interested in that
 557 2011-03-25 04:11:10 skeledrew1 has joined
 558 2011-03-25 04:13:14 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 559 2011-03-25 04:13:48 <Stellar> ;;bc,calc 560000
 560 2011-03-25 04:13:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 560000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 6 days, 2 hours, 57 minutes, and 19 seconds
 561 2011-03-25 04:14:38 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 562 2011-03-25 04:17:40 glassresistor has joined
 563 2011-03-25 04:18:57 <glassresistor> im thinking about getting liquid cooling for my radeon hd 5870, 5750, and a phenom II
 564 2011-03-25 04:19:09 <glassresistor> anyone know of a 2-4 headed system?
 565 2011-03-25 04:23:25 <afed_> i'm a sex maniac
 566 2011-03-25 04:24:28 alex5771 has joined
 567 2011-03-25 04:25:20 <glassresistor> cool
 568 2011-03-25 04:26:41 dbitcoin1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 569 2011-03-25 04:27:51 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
 570 2011-03-25 04:30:16 <AmpEater> sex explosion
 571 2011-03-25 04:30:32 unk has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 572 2011-03-25 04:33:43 dbitcoin has joined
 573 2011-03-25 04:37:33 Niedar has joined
 574 2011-03-25 04:40:03 xenon481 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 575 2011-03-25 04:41:41 CyanDynamo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 576 2011-03-25 04:43:47 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 577 2011-03-25 04:44:22 alex5771 has quit (Quit: alex5771)
 578 2011-03-25 04:50:42 jrabbit has joined
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 580 2011-03-25 05:01:13 skeledrew has joined
 581 2011-03-25 05:07:56 `Ven has joined
 582 2011-03-25 05:08:08 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
 583 2011-03-25 05:12:11 Venatic` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 584 2011-03-25 05:14:09 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 585 2011-03-25 05:14:28 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
 586 2011-03-25 05:19:00 mention has joined
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 588 2011-03-25 05:30:49 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 589 2011-03-25 05:31:58 talso has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 590 2011-03-25 05:32:12 wolfspraul has joined
 591 2011-03-25 05:32:32 <AmpEater> ;;bc,gen 1300000
 592 2011-03-25 05:32:34 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 18.9561885987 BTC per day and 0.789841191611 BTC per hour.
 593 2011-03-25 05:32:57 Bosma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 594 2011-03-25 05:33:16 <{t_t}> ;;bc,mtgox
 595 2011-03-25 05:33:17 <gribble> Too many connections
 596 2011-03-25 05:33:20 <{t_t}> ;;bc,mtgox
 597 2011-03-25 05:33:21 <gribble> Too many connections
 598 2011-03-25 05:33:47 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 599 2011-03-25 05:41:21 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 600 2011-03-25 05:46:30 <lfm> bitcoin crashed?
 601 2011-03-25 05:47:27 <lfm> wth
 602 2011-03-25 05:50:24 <necrodearia> I2P charity added!
 603 2011-03-25 05:51:51 Validus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 604 2011-03-25 05:53:48 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 605 2011-03-25 05:54:25 bitcoiner has joined
 606 2011-03-25 05:54:42 Zenith77 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 607 2011-03-25 05:57:03 talso has joined
 608 2011-03-25 06:06:22 talso has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 609 2011-03-25 06:07:25 talso has joined
 610 2011-03-25 06:08:33 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 611 2011-03-25 06:08:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114934 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1993 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77623.38261341
 612 2011-03-25 06:08:47 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 613 2011-03-25 06:09:07 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 115000
 614 2011-03-25 06:09:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 115000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 36 minutes, and 32 seconds
 615 2011-03-25 06:09:15 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 4000
 616 2011-03-25 06:09:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 2 years, 18 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 21 seconds
 617 2011-03-25 06:09:26 <LobsterMan> lol i shouldn't even bother with my cpu..
 618 2011-03-25 06:11:43 dmorg has joined
 619 2011-03-25 06:12:34 dmorg has left ()
 620 2011-03-25 06:12:41 dmorg has joined
 621 2011-03-25 06:18:19 mention has quit (Quit: leaving)
 622 2011-03-25 06:21:33 <necrodearia> http://fakenews.witcoin.com/p/505/U-S--radiation-sensors-deployed-nationwide#r-1044
 623 2011-03-25 06:21:40 dissipate has joined
 624 2011-03-25 06:30:01 <Keefe> ;;bc,gen 4000
 625 2011-03-25 06:30:05 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0583267341497 BTC per day and 0.00243028058957 BTC per hour.
 626 2011-03-25 06:30:22 <Keefe> LobsterMan: 0.40/week :)
 627 2011-03-25 06:31:32 <dmorg> And what is that in calories or Joules I wonder?
 628 2011-03-25 06:32:33 <x420024x> ;;bc,gen 1240000
 629 2011-03-25 06:32:34 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1240000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 18.0812875864 BTC per day and 0.753386982767 BTC per hour.
 630 2011-03-25 06:32:47 <x420024x> awesome
 631 2011-03-25 06:35:21 <LobsterMan> i've been using the pool lately
 632 2011-03-25 06:35:28 <LobsterMan> but my earnings are way down with diff so high <_<
 633 2011-03-25 06:35:42 <LobsterMan> gonna try for my own blocks again since it went down slightly lol
 634 2011-03-25 06:36:36 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,gen 330000
 635 2011-03-25 06:36:38 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 330000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4.81195556735 BTC per day and 0.20049814864 BTC per hour.
 636 2011-03-25 06:36:57 <Blitzboom> fine with me
 637 2011-03-25 06:38:16 dmorg has quit (Quit: dmorg)
 638 2011-03-25 06:38:25 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,gen 115000
 639 2011-03-25 06:38:26 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 115000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1.6768936068 BTC per day and 0.0698705669502 BTC per hour.
 640 2011-03-25 06:40:20 <Sargun_Screen> ;bc 225
 641 2011-03-25 06:40:22 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc 225
 642 2011-03-25 06:40:22 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
 643 2011-03-25 06:40:30 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 225
 644 2011-03-25 06:40:31 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 225 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.00328087879592 BTC per day and 0.000136703283163 BTC per hour.
 645 2011-03-25 06:40:37 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 225000
 646 2011-03-25 06:40:38 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 225000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 3.28087879592 BTC per day and 0.136703283163 BTC per hour.
 647 2011-03-25 06:40:52 {t_t} is now known as genjix
 648 2011-03-25 06:41:36 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
 649 2011-03-25 06:42:06 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,gend 77000
 650 2011-03-25 06:42:07 <gribble> (bc,gend <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
 651 2011-03-25 06:42:17 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,gend 330000 77000
 652 2011-03-25 06:42:17 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 330000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77000, is 4.31069305965 BTC per day and 0.179612210819 BTC per hour.
 653 2011-03-25 06:45:52 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 400000
 654 2011-03-25 06:45:54 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5.83267341497 BTC per day and 0.243028058957 BTC per hour.
 655 2011-03-25 06:46:04 <JFK911> let's see if i'm still lucky.
 656 2011-03-25 06:46:57 Silverpike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 675 2011-03-25 07:36:32 <justmoon> what the first block generated with the maximum target (i.e. difficulty 1)?
 676 2011-03-25 07:36:37 <justmoon> was* the first...
 677 2011-03-25 07:38:20 <justmoon> found my own answer: yes
 678 2011-03-25 07:41:58 <Blitzboom> justmoon: good job on the website btw. also seems that the video is spreading very well
 679 2011-03-25 07:42:21 <Blitzboom> i like the getting started section. very simple
 680 2011-03-25 07:42:43 <justmoon> yup it's doing alright, we got subtitles in German, French, Italian (coming soon), Spanish, Catalan, Hebrew and Russian :)
 681 2011-03-25 07:43:22 <ArtForz> hmm, I think I found another misfeature
 682 2011-03-25 07:43:30 <Blitzboom> hmm, can youtube handle all that?
 683 2011-03-25 07:43:50 <justmoon> Blitzboom: you can add as many subtitles as you want - I think
 684 2011-03-25 07:43:54 <Blitzboom> ah, i see
 685 2011-03-25 07:43:59 <Blitzboom> yeah, very nice
 686 2011-03-25 07:44:14 <justmoon> I'm writing the mining guide right now
 687 2011-03-25 07:44:18 <ArtForz> following scenario: node receives tx that has a tx as input node hasnt seen yet -> client puts it in maporphantransactions
 688 2011-03-25 07:44:24 <Blitzboom> ah, that’s why you asked :)
 689 2011-03-25 07:44:40 <ArtForz> node receives new block containing exactly that tx the orphan depends on
 690 2011-03-25 07:44:45 <justmoon> Blitzboom: yep! :)
 691 2011-03-25 07:45:06 <ArtForz> yep, we don't check for that
 692 2011-03-25 07:45:14 <Blitzboom> looking forward to it. i think many people are interested (and will be, as we are in a rally)
 693 2011-03-25 07:45:17 <justmoon> Blitzboom: it was for this sentence: "Because the target is such an unwieldy number with tons of digits, people generally use a simpler number to express the current target. This number is called the <em>mining difficulty</em>. The mining difficulty expresses how much harder the current block is to generate compared to the first block. So a difficulty of 70000 means to generate the current block you have to do 70000 times more work than Satoshi
 694 2011-03-25 07:45:18 <justmoon> had to do generating the first block."
 695 2011-03-25 07:45:37 <justmoon> I'll have the mining guide reviewed by some people before publishing it
 696 2011-03-25 07:45:46 <justmoon> will probably just post it in here
 697 2011-03-25 07:45:58 <ArtForz> I somehow dont think thats intended behaviour
 698 2011-03-25 07:45:59 <justmoon> I'm sure I'll make plenty of errors to correct :)
 699 2011-03-25 07:46:46 <Blitzboom> heh, in this context, a difficulty of 70k seems very small
 700 2011-03-25 07:47:42 <ArtForz> disregard what I said, we *do* check maporphan on new block
 701 2011-03-25 07:47:46 <justmoon> yeah, researching you find some funny stuff - like people complaining about 1318 difficulty: http://www.bitcoinblogger.com/2010/09/bitcoin-difficulty-continues-to.html
 702 2011-03-25 07:48:01 <ArtForz> wait, no, we don't
 703 2011-03-25 07:48:01 <Blitzboom> hahaha justmoon. hilarious :D
 704 2011-03-25 07:48:07 <ArtForz> ARGH
 705 2011-03-25 07:48:34 <ArtForz> yep, guess thats a bug
 706 2011-03-25 07:53:24 <Blitzboom> i don’t really get subtitles in youtube. can i select to embed them into the video somewhere?
 707 2011-03-25 07:53:38 <justmoon> mouseover the "CC" button
 708 2011-03-25 07:54:13 <Blitzboom> cc button? i must be blind
 709 2011-03-25 07:54:32 <justmoon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo - it should be left of the resolution selector
 710 2011-03-25 07:54:34 <Blitzboom> there’s this transcript button and that’s it
 711 2011-03-25 07:55:01 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 712 2011-03-25 07:55:02 <justmoon> it's in the video player toolbar itself
 713 2011-03-25 07:55:12 <Blitzboom> strange, maybe it’s due to an extension in chrome
 714 2011-03-25 07:55:21 <justmoon> hmm
 715 2011-03-25 07:55:24 <Blitzboom> i’ll deactivate it
 716 2011-03-25 07:55:37 <justmoon> youtube has a html5 beta, are you opted in for that?
 717 2011-03-25 07:55:39 <Blitzboom> yep. it’s there now
 718 2011-03-25 07:55:48 <justmoon> ok nevermind then
 719 2011-03-25 07:55:53 <Blitzboom> justmoon: no, i stopped it because it’s terribly bugged
 720 2011-03-25 07:56:01 <justmoon> yeah, I made the same experience
 721 2011-03-25 07:56:32 <justmoon> crazy that they actually convert every single video to WebM or whatever just for this feature noone uses
 722 2011-03-25 07:57:29 <Blitzboom> having subtitles in different languages is very nice. i read about some people that wanted to make dubs though
 723 2011-03-25 07:57:51 <justmoon> I'm trying to get my hands on the audio track without speaker
 724 2011-03-25 07:57:57 <justmoon> we'll release that asap
 725 2011-03-25 07:58:16 <Blitzboom> great :) international community ftw
 726 2011-03-25 07:59:12 <justmoon> yeah, it's incredible what a community can do where you'd normally need a six figure budget
 727 2011-03-25 08:00:15 <justmoon> guess what this one cost: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0KvWhCjWa4
 728 2011-03-25 08:00:23 <genjix> cool then I can make a British dub :D
 729 2011-03-25 08:00:44 <justmoon> genjix: awesome!! :D
 730 2011-03-25 08:00:54 <genjix> joking
 731 2011-03-25 08:01:05 <justmoon> genjix: I DEMAND IT!
 732 2011-03-25 08:02:01 <genjix> maybe, but need a better mic first.
 733 2011-03-25 08:02:03 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deinosuchus_spoken_article.ogg
 734 2011-03-25 08:02:09 <genjix> terrible sound quality
 735 2011-03-25 08:02:28 <Blitzboom> justmoon: i don’t know, 15k?
 736 2011-03-25 08:02:37 <Blitzboom> wait, it’s just 27 seconds
 737 2011-03-25 08:03:03 <justmoon> Blitzboom: about 10000 EUR
 738 2011-03-25 08:03:12 <Blitzboom> lol, wtf
 739 2011-03-25 08:03:34 <Blitzboom> media producers sure seem overpaid
 740 2011-03-25 08:03:58 <justmoon> well I was the producer, I got about 1200 EUR
 741 2011-03-25 08:04:22 <justmoon> you have to pay for a lot of shit though like director, studio, lighting, photography, hands, script
 742 2011-03-25 08:04:28 <genjix> nice
 743 2011-03-25 08:04:32 <Blitzboom> hmm, i see
 744 2011-03-25 08:04:49 <Blitzboom> i’m not familiar with how the media industry works
 745 2011-03-25 08:04:49 <genjix> justmoon: i want to make a documentary. do you know any good resources on simple lighting?
 746 2011-03-25 08:04:59 <genjix> i haven't been able to find much.
 747 2011-03-25 08:05:11 <Blitzboom> i just imagine a few dudes who sit together and start making it :D
 748 2011-03-25 08:05:33 <genjix> everything else, we've got down nicely.
 749 2011-03-25 08:05:35 <Blitzboom> still, such an effort for 27 seconds seems crazy
 750 2011-03-25 08:05:56 <justmoon> Blitzboom: well to be fair, we did a 47 sec cut as well
 751 2011-03-25 08:06:05 <justmoon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf0em0oibdg
 752 2011-03-25 08:06:22 <justmoon> genjix: I don't *anything* about lighting :D
 753 2011-03-25 08:06:30 <Blitzboom> i’m really glad we have you guys
 754 2011-03-25 08:06:41 <genjix> Blitzboom: well i used to be a pro designer
 755 2011-03-25 08:06:50 <genjix> and you can spend a weeks doing stuff
 756 2011-03-25 08:06:53 <Blitzboom> bitcoin sure needs some marketing
 757 2011-03-25 08:06:58 <genjix> and people dont appreciate the work that goes into it.
 758 2011-03-25 08:07:12 <genjix> they think it's done in an hour or something.
 759 2011-03-25 08:07:17 <justmoon> genjix: haha, tell me about it :D
 760 2011-03-25 08:07:56 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 2000
 761 2011-03-25 08:07:59 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0291633670749 BTC per day and 0.00121514029479 BTC per hour.
 762 2011-03-25 08:08:13 <Blitzboom> btw, what about that bounty?
 763 2011-03-25 08:08:16 <justmoon> genjix: I could bring my Zoom to the london meetup (re: recording), if it wasn't freaking five months away :D
 764 2011-03-25 08:08:29 <genjix> cool videos
 765 2011-03-25 08:08:29 <Blitzboom> i have no overview of how it’s composed
 766 2011-03-25 08:08:36 <justmoon> Blitzboom: looks like we'll get a bit more than half of it: 5000 BTC
 767 2011-03-25 08:08:38 <genjix> justmoon: the meeting is in 6 months time.
 768 2011-03-25 08:08:41 <Blitzboom> and why satoshi’s approval is required
 769 2011-03-25 08:08:45 <justmoon> genjix: or six
 770 2011-03-25 08:08:56 <justmoon> Blitzboom: that was part of the rules
 771 2011-03-25 08:09:03 <genjix> oh i misread what you said
 772 2011-03-25 08:09:12 <genjix> yeah 6 months is too far for me to plan
 773 2011-03-25 08:09:32 <genjix> maybe 2 weeks at most is doable.
 774 2011-03-25 08:09:33 <justmoon> getting only half wasn't part of the rules imho, but meh - I already said in geneva that I'm happy if I get half
 775 2011-03-25 08:09:39 <justmoon> so more than half is a victory :)
 776 2011-03-25 08:09:42 <Blitzboom> ok. so i guess you will do another video getting more into detail sometime?
 777 2011-03-25 08:10:03 <genjix> oh you made the cool video
 778 2011-03-25 08:10:04 <justmoon> only if we end up with enough bounty to fully pay for the next video
 779 2011-03-25 08:10:13 <justmoon> not gonna chase after any more bounties for now
 780 2011-03-25 08:10:17 <Blitzboom> how much is enough? ;)
 781 2011-03-25 08:10:20 Guest3937 has quit ()
 782 2011-03-25 08:10:43 <justmoon> 5000 should be enough, first video cost 2000, tech video will be slightly more involved, so 3000 should be just enough
 783 2011-03-25 08:10:47 <genjix> i dislike how people on the forums are placing bounties and then not paying up after/cancelling the bounty halfway
 784 2011-03-25 08:11:01 <Blitzboom> genjix: second that
 785 2011-03-25 08:11:02 <genjix> that's dishonest.
 786 2011-03-25 08:11:09 <Blitzboom> should be regarded as violating a contract
 787 2011-03-25 08:11:23 <genjix> if it's bitcoin related, maybe use http://bitcoin.cz.cc/ :)
 788 2011-03-25 08:11:38 <justmoon> genjix: noagendamarket being the notable exception, he immediately jumped in and suggested we get at least what he donated to the bounty (that's the 5000 I was talking about)
 789 2011-03-25 08:12:21 legion050 has joined
 790 2011-03-25 08:12:49 <justmoon> genjix: what does the "Donate!" column mean?
 791 2011-03-25 08:13:00 <Blitzboom> it means donated bitcoins
 792 2011-03-25 08:13:11 <genjix> the number of bitcoins people have donated.
 793 2011-03-25 08:13:13 <justmoon> ahh I thought it was the amount you have to donate or something
 794 2011-03-25 08:13:20 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/?page=help <- that's the policy
 795 2011-03-25 08:13:35 <genjix> hmm good point. i'll change that
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 800 2011-03-25 08:15:03 <justmoon> genjix: this could work well - the site operator has an interest to have a reputation that bounties will actually be paid
 801 2011-03-25 08:16:07 <genjix> well the source code is free, so anybody can fork it... and i made it as an experiment into how development in free software works with bitcoins
 802 2011-03-25 08:16:10 legion050 has joined
 803 2011-03-25 08:16:15 <justmoon> if we do marketing related bounties with the marketing fund, we'll definitely consider using the site
 804 2011-03-25 08:16:15 <Sargun_Screen> Stupid question, what's the point of poold?
 805 2011-03-25 08:16:35 <genjix> "By putting bounties on each bug fix and feature, Gavin and the other bitcoin developers will be able to tell which features and bug fixes are most urgent. Each part of the project has it's own price! This pricing mechanism for FOSS projects is a radical improvement over the model of putting arbitrary priorities on bugs and features."
 806 2011-03-25 08:17:11 <genjix> dissipate said that :p
 807 2011-03-25 08:17:37 <justmoon> genjix: well, bounties have been used in open source for a long time - not really too successfully in my experience
 808 2011-03-25 08:18:04 <genjix> yeah but how hard is it to get money online?
 809 2011-03-25 08:18:23 <genjix> and the systems aren't really built into the trackers.
 810 2011-03-25 08:18:44 <justmoon> I don't follow - systems? trackers?
 811 2011-03-25 08:18:53 <genjix> bug trackers.
 812 2011-03-25 08:18:57 <justmoon> ah i see
 813 2011-03-25 08:19:18 <justmoon> hmm
 814 2011-03-25 08:19:45 <justmoon> I think what would help a great deal was if non-technical people were able to put money on things they understand
 815 2011-03-25 08:19:59 <justmoon> so the more accessible it is for non-developers the better
 816 2011-03-25 08:19:59 <genjix> a common response (and i stress this is from mismanaged projects) to a complaint is: fix it yourself! the source is there.
 817 2011-03-25 08:20:19 <genjix> now you can vote with wallet too :p
 818 2011-03-25 08:20:21 <justmoon> true, either that, or you pay a 2500$/month corporate support contract
 819 2011-03-25 08:20:40 <justmoon> and you may not actually need any support that month
 820 2011-03-25 08:20:41 <genjix> well for a user is different
 821 2011-03-25 08:20:56 <genjix> and this is *much* better model for software
 822 2011-03-25 08:20:57 <theorbtwo> genjix: Sure, but most open-source developers like it being a hobby, not a job.
 823 2011-03-25 08:21:10 <genjix> instead of paying $50 for MS Word or whatever every month
 824 2011-03-25 08:21:16 <justmoon> theorbtwo: I don't mind if my hobbies make me money?
 825 2011-03-25 08:21:17 <genjix> you pay for feature X
 826 2011-03-25 08:21:19 <Blitzboom> developers should consider what the community wants
 827 2011-03-25 08:21:35 <Blitzboom> it’s a feedback mechanism imo
 828 2011-03-25 08:22:03 <genjix> theorbtwo: it's actually a disconnect between different projects
 829 2011-03-25 08:22:10 <theorbtwo> ...and the bounties aren't generally enough to be worth the time to implement the feature, if it's not fun to implement in the first place.
 830 2011-03-25 08:22:33 <genjix> ever wonder why GIMP has 2 developers but Blender has dozens?
 831 2011-03-25 08:22:47 <justmoon> genjix: 3d is prettier?
 832 2011-03-25 08:22:52 <justmoon> just kidding :)
 833 2011-03-25 08:22:53 <genjix> it's to do with how responsive they are towards their users
 834 2011-03-25 08:23:09 <genjix> GIMP are arrogant
 835 2011-03-25 08:23:12 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 836 2011-03-25 08:23:23 <genjix> WINE too
 837 2011-03-25 08:23:26 <genjix> gnome also
 838 2011-03-25 08:23:34 <genjix> (weird how these are all gtk projects?)
 839 2011-03-25 08:24:56 <justmoon> so you're saying non arrogant developers -> more responsive -> more developers?
 840 2011-03-25 08:25:25 <lfm> sure, why not
 841 2011-03-25 08:25:31 <justmoon> -> ??? -> profit!
 842 2011-03-25 08:26:17 <justmoon> I don't really have an opinion, I'm only procrastinating working on the mining guide :)
 843 2011-03-25 08:26:24 <genjix> yep. in free software, your users become developers as they fall from the periphery
 844 2011-03-25 08:27:00 <Sargun_Screen> Why can't a bunch of miners connect to bitcoind? What's the point of putting poold in the middle?
 845 2011-03-25 08:27:03 <justmoon> genjix: that is true though - I love github, because it's so easy to contribute code back to a project
 846 2011-03-25 08:27:18 <justmoon> and that makes for better projects a lot of the time
 847 2011-03-25 08:27:30 <genjix> git :p
 848 2011-03-25 08:27:55 <justmoon> Sargun_Screen: I'm guessing purely based on the name, but perhaps poold manages dividing the payouts for each of the miners?
 849 2011-03-25 08:28:35 <Sargun_Screen> justmoon: Well, why isn't that logic built straight into bitcoind?
 850 2011-03-25 08:29:06 <justmoon> Sargun_Screen: it's not part of bitcoin to have pools. that's like asking why isn't photoshop built straight into windows
 851 2011-03-25 08:29:14 <genjix> lol
 852 2011-03-25 08:29:42 <Sargun_Screen> justmoon: Well, I thought it already does some kind of pooling with getwork?
 853 2011-03-25 08:30:48 <justmoon> no I doesn't, when you mine with bitcoind you either get a full block or not - pooling allows multiple people to work together and if one person gets a block they can divide among themselves fairly
 854 2011-03-25 08:31:03 <justmoon> if you're just mining on your own, just connect to bitcoind directly
 855 2011-03-25 08:32:44 <Sargun_Screen> So, what happens if I run two miners against one bitcoind, then am I doing redundant work?
 856 2011-03-25 08:33:16 <justmoon> no, that's fine
 857 2011-03-25 08:33:32 <Blitzboom> isn’t that what pool do?
 858 2011-03-25 08:33:36 <Blitzboom> pools
 859 2011-03-25 08:33:58 <justmoon> Blitzboom: no, pool divide the profit from mining
 860 2011-03-25 08:34:02 <Sargun_Screen> oh, okay
 861 2011-03-25 08:34:13 <Blitzboom> yeah, but they combine their hashrate
 862 2011-03-25 08:36:26 Sirius is now known as sirius-m
 863 2011-03-25 08:37:16 <justmoon> Blitzboom: honestly, I'm only guessing here - I haven't done much mining :D
 864 2011-03-25 08:37:23 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 865 2011-03-25 08:37:30 <Blitzboom> well, i use a pool
 866 2011-03-25 08:37:54 <Blitzboom> and the way it works as i know is that i transmit my hashing results to the pool operator
 867 2011-03-25 08:38:09 <Blitzboom> at difficulty 1, and that’s called shares
 868 2011-03-25 08:38:22 <justmoon> I know, the question is whether getwork by itself is smart enough so miners don't duplicate their work
 869 2011-03-25 08:39:33 <Blitzboom> i believe the pools have modified versions for that?
 870 2011-03-25 08:39:48 <Blitzboom> but i can only make guesses, too
 871 2011-03-25 08:40:21 <Blitzboom> as i am no coder and don’t even want to know all the details
 872 2011-03-25 08:40:22 <justmoon> wow aren't we all competent :D
 873 2011-03-25 08:40:59 <genjix> wahow
 874 2011-03-25 08:41:12 <Blitzboom> when i first read about bitcoin, i just wanted to know the general idea of how it works
 875 2011-03-25 08:41:13 <genjix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViD0vfGIh50
 876 2011-03-25 08:45:27 Zarutian has joined
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 878 2011-03-25 08:48:32 <Sargun_Screen> It's 80+256 bytes per hash, right?
 879 2011-03-25 08:48:46 <Sargun_Screen> erm 112 bytes
 880 2011-03-25 08:49:25 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4904.0
 881 2011-03-25 08:50:14 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: hey!
 882 2011-03-25 08:50:37 <ArtForz> 80 + 32 bytes
 883 2011-03-25 08:50:45 <ArtForz> and the first 64 are pretty much constant
 884 2011-03-25 08:50:53 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: Are you making your structured ASIC available to others?
 885 2011-03-25 08:51:01 <ArtForz> currently, no
 886 2011-03-25 08:51:02 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: I'm looking at (cheap) hash accelerators
 887 2011-03-25 08:51:08 <ArtForz> good luck
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 889 2011-03-25 08:51:46 <ArtForz> 1Mhps = 1Gbit of sha256 throughput
 890 2011-03-25 08:51:59 <Sargun_Screen> $50 for 3.2 gbps
 891 2011-03-25 08:52:19 <ArtForz> $50 GPU = 40Mhps
 892 2011-03-25 08:52:32 <Sargun_Screen> vs. $600 for 500 Mhps
 893 2011-03-25 08:52:34 <Sargun_Screen> yeah
 894 2011-03-25 08:52:42 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: What's the power draw on the GPU?
 895 2011-03-25 08:52:45 jackmcbarn has joined
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 897 2011-03-25 08:53:12 <ArtForz> well, on a 5970, about 300W for 560Mhps
 898 2011-03-25 08:53:13 eKF-[i] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 899 2011-03-25 08:53:30 <Sargun_Screen> whoa, I can't put that in my server :-/
 900 2011-03-25 08:53:36 <Sargun_Screen> I only have a 480W PSU.
 901 2011-03-25 08:53:39 <ArtForz> with a CAL miner and OCed, 325W for 700Mhps
 902 2011-03-25 08:53:42 Teppy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 903 2011-03-25 08:54:04 lfm has quit (Quit: zzzzzzs)
 904 2011-03-25 08:54:06 <ArtForz> so ... about 2Mhps/W
 905 2011-03-25 08:54:21 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 906 2011-03-25 08:54:25 eao has joined
 907 2011-03-25 08:54:38 <Sargun_Screen> 3.2 Mhps @ 13.5W
 908 2011-03-25 08:54:53 <ArtForz> yep
 909 2011-03-25 08:55:02 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 910 2011-03-25 08:55:03 <Sargun_Screen> Power is relatively cheap
 911 2011-03-25 08:55:11 <ArtForz> ...not really
 912 2011-03-25 08:55:19 <Sargun_Screen> 20 Amps / 120 VAC + real estate = $700/mo
 913 2011-03-25 08:55:28 Teppy has joined
 914 2011-03-25 08:56:12 <ArtForz> yes, and thats only 2.4kW
 915 2011-03-25 08:56:41 chaord has joined
 916 2011-03-25 08:57:04 <ArtForz> so about 4.8Ghps using GPUs
 917 2011-03-25 08:57:23 <ArtForz> well, at least if we magically can get 100% utilization
 918 2011-03-25 08:57:27 <ArtForz> ;;bc,gen 4800000
 919 2011-03-25 08:57:28 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 69.9920809796 BTC per day and 2.91633670749 BTC per hour.
 920 2011-03-25 08:57:42 <ArtForz> so, roughly 2.1kBTC/mo
 921 2011-03-25 08:58:18 <Sargun_Screen> Ooh, they have another card that does 6.0Gbps
 922 2011-03-25 08:58:24 <Sargun_Screen> @ 2W
 923 2011-03-25 08:58:40 <ArtForz> wow, thats bad
 924 2011-03-25 08:58:59 <Sargun_Screen> Wait, no... :-( Assumes a 10K block size
 925 2011-03-25 08:59:02 <ArtForz> my ASICs do 200Mhps @ 7W
 926 2011-03-25 08:59:07 <Sargun_Screen> The other one was "absolute speed"
 927 2011-03-25 08:59:27 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: dude, sell your ASICs to the WPA cracking guys.
 928 2011-03-25 08:59:36 <Sargun_Screen> though, IIRC, WPA uses 4096-rounds.
 929 2011-03-25 08:59:39 <ArtForz> can't, SHA256 only :P
 930 2011-03-25 08:59:46 <ArtForz> WPA is SHA1
 931 2011-03-25 08:59:49 <Sargun_Screen> -_-
 932 2011-03-25 09:00:03 <Sargun_Screen> I thought the new WPA standards use sha-256?
 933 2011-03-25 09:00:07 <ArtForz> nope
 934 2011-03-25 09:00:22 <ArtForz> still PBKDF2-HMAC-SHA1
 935 2011-03-25 09:00:33 <Sargun_Screen> ah, damn
 936 2011-03-25 09:00:44 <ArtForz> and SL3 unlocking is also SHA1
 937 2011-03-25 09:01:11 <Sargun_Screen> If I could do 6 Mhps @ 2W, and somehow get, say 1000 of these devices in a rack ($50/unit)...I would be happy.
 938 2011-03-25 09:01:45 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 6000000
 939 2011-03-25 09:01:46 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 6000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 87.4901012246 BTC per day and 3.64542088436 BTC per hour.
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 941 2011-03-25 09:02:34 <ArtForz> 6Ghps for 2kW would be pretty decent
 942 2011-03-25 09:03:43 <ArtForz> better than GPUs at least
 943 2011-03-25 09:04:04 <Sargun_Screen> integration would be a pain though.
 944 2011-03-25 09:04:42 <ArtForz> might be cheaper to go with FPGAs though
 945 2011-03-25 09:05:24 <Sargun_Screen> For a $2000 FPGA, I can pull about 450 Mhps according to vendors.
 946 2011-03-25 09:05:28 <ArtForz> yes
 947 2011-03-25 09:05:33 <ArtForz> and for a $200 FPGA, about 70
 948 2011-03-25 09:05:45 <ArtForz> using ~5W
 949 2011-03-25 09:06:16 <Sargun_Screen> Hmm
 950 2011-03-25 09:06:24 <Sargun_Screen> What $200 FPGA can you pull that on?
 951 2011-03-25 09:06:28 <ArtForz> XC6SLX150-3
 952 2011-03-25 09:06:52 <ArtForz> 64 double pipelined sha256 rounds
 953 2011-03-25 09:07:08 <Sargun_Screen> have you created a core that can do that
 954 2011-03-25 09:07:15 <ArtForz> yep
 955 2011-03-25 09:07:22 <ArtForz> and next gen should be even better
 956 2011-03-25 09:07:30 TheAncientGoat has joined
 957 2011-03-25 09:07:34 <ArtForz> artix7 175T is big enough to fit 2 of em
 958 2011-03-25 09:08:33 <ArtForz> only problem is, commercial boards cost an arm and a leg
 959 2011-03-25 09:08:53 <ArtForz> commercial PCIe card w/ 12* S6 LX150-3 is ~$10k
 960 2011-03-25 09:12:08 <Sargun_Screen> 25 gbit/sec @ 22.5 watts/
 961 2011-03-25 09:12:16 <Sargun_Screen> PCIe x8
 962 2011-03-25 09:12:29 <Sargun_Screen> How is that?
 963 2011-03-25 09:13:00 <ArtForz> 25Mhps for 22.5W? again, even cheap GPUs get > 1.5Mh/W
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 968 2011-03-25 09:14:01 <ArtForz> and you'd need about 30 of em to equal one $700 HD5970
 969 2011-03-25 09:15:39 <ArtForz> wait, 25
 970 2011-03-25 09:17:08 <Sargun_Screen> I think I should get my hands on one of these.
 971 2011-03-25 09:17:20 <Sargun_Screen> If I buy 20 of them, I'm sure I'll get some kind of discount
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 974 2011-03-25 09:19:46 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: At this point, couldn't people fool the network into accepting false transactions, because if we hold the power of a significant chunk of the network, couldn't we generate an alternate block chain
 975 2011-03-25 09:20:13 <ArtForz> erm... no
 976 2011-03-25 09:20:36 <sipa> transactions will always ever need to be valid within the chain they're placed
 977 2011-03-25 09:20:50 <sipa> otherwise those blocks will simply be ignored by truthful nodes
 978 2011-03-25 09:21:51 <ArtForz> all you can do with > 50% of network hashrate is block transactions from getting into blocks and claiming 100% of generation
 979 2011-03-25 09:23:49 <ArtForz> well, and double-spend your own coins
 980 2011-03-25 09:24:57 <Blitzboom> how would you be able to double spend?
 981 2011-03-25 09:25:17 <ArtForz> create 2 versions of a spend, the normal one and a send-to-self
 982 2011-03-25 09:25:29 <ArtForz> send the nromal one to the network, let it put it into a block
 983 2011-03-25 09:25:41 <ArtForz> meanwhile, put your other version in your own fork of the block chain
 984 2011-03-25 09:25:51 <ArtForz> and keep working only on your fork, not sending it to network
 985 2011-03-25 09:26:16 <ArtForz> when you get the goods/whatever in exchange for that spend, send your fork to the network
 986 2011-03-25 09:26:29 <sipa> which will be noticed by the community
 987 2011-03-25 09:26:30 <ArtForz> if you have more hahspower than everyone else, your chain will be longer
 988 2011-03-25 09:26:40 <sipa> unless you've able to do it very quickly
 989 2011-03-25 09:26:46 <sipa> (max 1 or 2 blocks)
 990 2011-03-25 09:26:58 <ArtForz> did you notice the "not send your chain to network" part?
 991 2011-03-25 09:27:08 <sipa> yes
 992 2011-03-25 09:27:17 <sipa> but a long chain split will be noticed
 993 2011-03-25 09:27:21 <ArtForz> so no one else notices anything, until suddenly a fork thats longer than main chain with lets say 100 blocks pops up
 994 2011-03-25 09:27:30 <sipa> yes, that's what i mean
 995 2011-03-25 09:28:42 <ArtForz> yeah, still doesnt really help em much though
 996 2011-03-25 09:29:35 <ArtForz> put a checkpoint on the first block of the now-shorter branch and somehow get *everyone* to switch to that client?
 997 2011-03-25 09:31:08 TD has joined
 998 2011-03-25 09:31:20 <ArtForz> of course it will be noticed, thats why it's rather unlikely to happen
 999 2011-03-25 09:31:57 <ArtForz> imo it's more profitable for the attacker to just generate blocks and sell the coins
1000 2011-03-25 09:33:12 <sipa> doing the only-build-upon-my-own-blocks type of attack can give you up to a 100% increase in mining gains
1001 2011-03-25 09:33:22 <ArtForz> yep
1002 2011-03-25 09:33:42 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: Alright, real benchmarks on that card are registering <13W for SHA-256.
1003 2011-03-25 09:33:43 <sipa> and can be done a lot more secretly, if not done excessively
1004 2011-03-25 09:35:11 <ArtForz> so... about as power efficient as a 5970
1005 2011-03-25 09:37:27 <ArtForz> sipa: yup
1006 2011-03-25 09:37:27 <Sargun_Screen> yeah, but terrible form factor.
1007 2011-03-25 09:37:51 <ArtForz> yeah, getting a decent density is gonna be a PITA
1008 2011-03-25 09:38:22 <ArtForz> 2 5970s in 2U isnt exactly rocket science
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1010 2011-03-25 09:38:49 <Aciid> has anyone tried the CPUMINER image @ AWS?
1011 2011-03-25 09:39:28 <ArtForz> so to get the same density, you'd need about 50 of those accelerators
1012 2011-03-25 09:39:38 <ArtForz> ... in 2U
1013 2011-03-25 09:39:59 <Aciid>  ami-117a4d65
1014 2011-03-25 09:39:59 <Aciid> ebs
1015 2011-03-25 09:39:59 <Aciid> 833274755715/cpuminer
1016 2011-03-25 09:40:00 <Aciid>  Other Linux
1017 2011-03-25 09:40:06 <Aciid> this is at EC2
1018 2011-03-25 09:40:32 <Aciid> high CPU extra large gives 20ECU's
1019 2011-03-25 09:40:41 <Sargun_Screen> Aciid: What kinda hash speeds are you getting?
1020 2011-03-25 09:40:53 <Aciid> Sargun_Screen: I havent tried it, im asking has anyone tried it
1021 2011-03-25 09:41:00 <Aciid> just found it
1022 2011-03-25 09:45:45 <genjix> wahow
1023 2011-03-25 09:47:02 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: Thought you might find this interesting: http://www.caviumnetworks.com/processor_security_nitrox-III.html
1024 2011-03-25 09:47:57 <Sargun_Screen> 30 mh/s
1025 2011-03-25 09:49:40 <ArtForz> neat
1026 2011-03-25 09:49:52 <Sargun_Screen> $500/card, god damnit.
1027 2011-03-25 09:50:01 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1028 2011-03-25 09:52:25 Keybaud has joined
1029 2011-03-25 09:54:12 <Aciid> Sargun_Screen: my 1100T goes 22mh/s with mild overclocking
1030 2011-03-25 09:54:52 <Aciid> I know I could push it to 25mh/s, but I have a flu at the moment and warm air feels fucking terrible in my nose
1031 2011-03-25 09:56:43 <Sargun_Screen> Aciid: What can a 5670 do?
1032 2011-03-25 09:57:01 <Aciid> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
1033 2011-03-25 09:57:13 <Sargun_Screen> It'd be about $175/mo to host a box with two 5670s
1034 2011-03-25 09:57:17 <Aciid> 5670 71.49
1035 2011-03-25 09:57:23 <Aciid> I have 2*6870
1036 2011-03-25 09:58:02 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 600000
1037 2011-03-25 09:58:04 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 8.74901012246 BTC per day and 0.364542088436 BTC per hour.
1038 2011-03-25 09:58:34 <Sargun_Screen> At the price of bitcoins today, it'll barely break even.
1039 2011-03-25 10:00:30 rli has joined
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1042 2011-03-25 10:04:41 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
1043 2011-03-25 10:05:36 ColdHardMetal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1045 2011-03-25 10:12:29 subpar has joined
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1047 2011-03-25 10:18:49 <baaaacon> does pci-x speed matter for adding more cards? I have 4 slots, but only one runs at 16x, but if I do all 4, they run at 4x each?
1048 2011-03-25 10:23:37 <ArtForz> no
1049 2011-03-25 10:29:50 <Sargun_Screen> ArtForz: Are you going to spend your bitcoins, or just accumulate them all and then eventually hedge against the market, and flood it with cheap bit coins?
1050 2011-03-25 10:30:02 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1051 2011-03-25 10:30:20 BlueMatt has joined
1052 2011-03-25 10:30:29 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1053 2011-03-25 10:30:29 BlueMatt has joined
1054 2011-03-25 10:30:34 sgornick has joined
1055 2011-03-25 10:30:42 <ArtForz> I mostly sell em
1056 2011-03-25 10:31:40 <Blitzboom> on mtgox, right?
1057 2011-03-25 10:31:43 <ArtForz> yea
1058 2011-03-25 10:32:13 <Blitzboom> haha, must feel nice to be able to dictate the price
1059 2011-03-25 10:32:33 <Blitzboom> mostly at least
1060 2011-03-25 10:44:08 noot has joined
1061 2011-03-25 10:45:20 [Noodles] has joined
1062 2011-03-25 10:47:42 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 3600
1063 2011-03-25 10:47:45 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3600 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0524940607347 BTC per day and 0.00218725253061 BTC per hour.
1064 2011-03-25 10:48:09 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1065 2011-03-25 10:48:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114973 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1954 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 15 hours, 38 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 89348.68127067
1066 2011-03-25 10:49:12 <eps1> hmmm, so the difficulty dropped
1067 2011-03-25 10:49:20 noot has quit (Quit: leaving)
1068 2011-03-25 10:49:22 <eps1> and now it is expected to be really high
1069 2011-03-25 10:49:29 noot has joined
1070 2011-03-25 10:49:32 noot has quit (Client Quit)
1071 2011-03-25 10:51:28 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 1300
1072 2011-03-25 10:51:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1300 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0189561885987 BTC per day and 0.000789841191611 BTC per hour.
1073 2011-03-25 10:51:31 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 13000
1074 2011-03-25 10:51:32 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 13000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.189561885987 BTC per day and 0.00789841191611 BTC per hour.
1075 2011-03-25 10:57:13 tower has joined
1076 2011-03-25 10:58:14 <Blitzboom> justmoon: i think you should include the GUI miner in your mining guide btw
1077 2011-03-25 10:58:42 <Blitzboom> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0
1078 2011-03-25 10:58:42 <justmoon> yeah, I was thinking about it - would be nice if they were bundled
1079 2011-03-25 10:59:07 <Blitzboom> it’s definitely the easiest way to mine
1080 2011-03-25 10:59:41 <justmoon> ok, I'll include it then - thanks for the suggestion
1081 2011-03-25 10:59:48 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1082 2011-03-25 11:00:08 <BlueMatt> anyone had a chance to look over upnp diffs?
1083 2011-03-25 11:00:20 <Blitzboom> not completely correct – the easiest way to mine with a gpu, of course ;)
1084 2011-03-25 11:00:33 <justmoon> lol
1085 2011-03-25 11:01:07 Ruudjah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1086 2011-03-25 11:02:01 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/133/files
1087 2011-03-25 11:15:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: how does one regenerate the *.po to *.mo in the locale?
1088 2011-03-25 11:18:09 <justmoon> is there a list of mining pools somewhere?
1089 2011-03-25 11:18:54 <Blitzboom> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Pool_Operators
1090 2011-03-25 11:19:26 <justmoon> thanks!
1091 2011-03-25 11:23:09 sipa has joined
1092 2011-03-25 11:26:57 davex__ has joined
1093 2011-03-25 11:30:09 <molecular> to make sure my tx get in a block, is it currently sufficient to paytxfee=0.00000001 ?
1094 2011-03-25 11:30:49 <BlueMatt> molecular: it would help some
1095 2011-03-25 11:31:07 <BlueMatt> molecular: though you can still easily get in a block with 0 fee
1096 2011-03-25 11:31:39 <molecular> probably a bit of a gamble if the amount is low
1097 2011-03-25 11:31:51 <BlueMatt> not really
1098 2011-03-25 11:31:58 noot has joined
1099 2011-03-25 11:32:17 <BlueMatt> it just might take a bunch of blocks to get in, but you should be absolutely fine
1100 2011-03-25 11:32:20 sprash has joined
1101 2011-03-25 11:34:02 <molecular> well, there are 1238 unconfirmed transactions according to http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/.. it might take a lot of blocks
1102 2011-03-25 11:35:07 <BlueMatt> na, I got into a block 2 days ago with no tx fee in like 3-4 blocks
1103 2011-03-25 11:36:49 <molecular> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
1104 2011-03-25 11:36:49 <molecular> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
1105 2011-03-25 11:37:01 <BlueMatt> well so many of those txes have unconfirmed inputs its not as bad as it looks
1106 2011-03-25 11:37:08 <molecular> hmm, this  happens with my 0.3.20 bitcoin after having used version from git
1107 2011-03-25 11:37:18 <BlueMatt> hmm
1108 2011-03-25 11:37:45 <genjix> molecular: use libdb4.7
1109 2011-03-25 11:37:48 <genjix> not 4.8
1110 2011-03-25 11:38:46 <molecular> uhm. so some db files got converted or something?
1111 2011-03-25 11:38:57 <BlueMatt> could very well be
1112 2011-03-25 11:39:16 <molecular> well, switching to libdb4.7 will not change that, will it?
1113 2011-03-25 11:39:22 <BlueMatt> nope
1114 2011-03-25 11:39:31 <BlueMatt> did you compile the git version with db4.8?
1115 2011-03-25 11:39:33 <molecular> so I'd rather stay with 4.8 to be able to operate ;)
1116 2011-03-25 11:39:49 <molecular> I'm not sure, have both 4.7.25 and 4.8.30 installed on my system
1117 2011-03-25 11:40:04 <molecular> I remember having to update libdb to compile, though
1118 2011-03-25 11:40:08 <molecular> so probably 4.8
1119 2011-03-25 11:40:27 <genjix> what you cna do is this:
1120 2011-03-25 11:40:46 <genjix> mv .bitcoin /tmp/bitcoin
1121 2011-03-25 11:40:59 <genjix> compile with 4.7
1122 2011-03-25 11:41:08 <genjix> new wallet ... get addresss
1123 2011-03-25 11:41:21 <genjix> (switch back, swap directories)
1124 2011-03-25 11:41:26 <genjix> send money to new wallet.
1125 2011-03-25 11:41:33 <genjix> :p ... make backups
1126 2011-03-25 11:41:59 <molecular> why is it desirable to switch to 4.7?
1127 2011-03-25 11:42:19 <BlueMatt> so you can keep using regular builds
1128 2011-03-25 11:42:22 <genjix> untested with 4.8
1129 2011-03-25 11:42:30 <BlueMatt> instead of having to rebuild each time a new version comes out
1130 2011-03-25 11:42:42 <genjix> should be ok, but noone will take responsibility.
1131 2011-03-25 11:43:07 <genjix> if you have 10 btc i wouldn't bother, but i would if u have 1k
1132 2011-03-25 11:43:22 <molecular> currently 100 ;|
1133 2011-03-25 11:43:30 <genjix> not worth it :p
1134 2011-03-25 11:44:07 <molecular> this is my "spending/earning" account. got 1k in saving account.
1135 2011-03-25 11:44:18 <genjix> ahh k
1136 2011-03-25 11:44:38 * genjix should do that
1137 2011-03-25 11:45:14 <molecular> yeah, it's good. also no fear to have savings account stolen since wallet.dat does not exist unencrypted
1138 2011-03-25 11:45:52 <genjix> also would be less careless
1139 2011-03-25 11:46:00 <molecular> and encrypted version emailed to friends, feel pretty save
1140 2011-03-25 11:46:04 <genjix> i must've donated 50 btc to chinese students:p
1141 2011-03-25 11:47:17 <molecular> will try to build bitcoin, not just bitcoind. if that works out I'll stay on libdb4.8.
1142 2011-03-25 11:47:22 <genjix> wouldn't it be cool to encrypt you gpg keypair as double protection.
1143 2011-03-25 11:48:43 <molecular> which gpg keypair?
1144 2011-03-25 11:49:45 noagendamarket has joined
1145 2011-03-25 11:49:58 <genjix> secret one.
1146 2011-03-25 11:50:08 <BlueMatt> what is with this obsession with using gpg as an encryption method
1147 2011-03-25 11:50:17 <BlueMatt> for what he is doing simple aes is much more suited
1148 2011-03-25 11:50:22 <genjix> because it's a fantastic tool.
1149 2011-03-25 11:50:58 <genjix> gpg does use AES.
1150 2011-03-25 11:51:09 <BlueMatt> and thus you dont need a gpg key
1151 2011-03-25 11:51:16 <BlueMatt> just do aes password salted
1152 2011-03-25 11:51:31 <genjix> are you using linux?
1153 2011-03-25 11:51:44 <BlueMatt> yea, but we are talking about molecular
1154 2011-03-25 11:51:55 puddinpop has joined
1155 2011-03-25 11:51:56 Xunie has joined
1156 2011-03-25 11:52:08 <genjix> ok, because I use GPG for many tasks.
1157 2011-03-25 11:52:20 <genjix> so it's handy + available.
1158 2011-03-25 11:52:44 <BlueMatt> it doesnt really matter what tool you use, Im just pointing out that using public/private key pairs to encrypt a savings wallet is pointless
1159 2011-03-25 11:52:54 <genjix> gpg -r genjix --output wallet.enc --encrypt wallet.dat
1160 2011-03-25 11:53:07 <genjix> not any less pointless than using AES :)
1161 2011-03-25 11:53:11 <BlueMatt> its great for some tasks but...
1162 2011-03-25 11:53:31 <BlueMatt> no because then you also have to protect your key pair the same way you protect your wallet
1163 2011-03-25 11:53:58 <BlueMatt> there is no point backing up your wallet all over the world if you only have one or two copies of your gpg key
1164 2011-03-25 11:53:58 <genjix> you do realise that keypairs are password protected, right?
1165 2011-03-25 11:54:13 <genjix> and that AES passkeys are insecure?
1166 2011-03-25 11:54:27 <BlueMatt> and if you backup your key, then its just as weak as using basic aes password encryption
1167 2011-03-25 11:54:37 <BlueMatt> genjix: no less secure than gpg's keypair encryption
1168 2011-03-25 11:54:59 <BlueMatt> whats so hard about openssl aes-256-cbc -d -in infile -out outfile
1169 2011-03-25 11:55:13 <genjix> well the whole point of GPG is that you're meant to keep your keypair secret
1170 2011-03-25 11:55:22 <genjix> not upload it to a public server.
1171 2011-03-25 11:55:24 <BlueMatt> then backing up your wallet is pointless
1172 2011-03-25 11:55:36 <BlueMatt> you lose your keypair you lose your wallet anyway
1173 2011-03-25 11:55:48 <genjix> nope.
1174 2011-03-25 11:55:55 <BlueMatt> how does that work?
1175 2011-03-25 11:55:56 <genjix> i have my keypair somewhere very secret.
1176 2011-03-25 11:56:11 <BlueMatt> and if that place gets broken, you lose your wallet
1177 2011-03-25 11:56:12 <genjix> and i backed it up once.
1178 2011-03-25 11:56:15 doublec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1179 2011-03-25 11:56:27 <genjix> not really. because i don't upload my encrypted wallet to public servers
1180 2011-03-25 11:56:28 curiositysquared has joined
1181 2011-03-25 11:56:38 <genjix> it's like another security barrier.
1182 2011-03-25 11:56:44 <BlueMatt> Im talking about molecular not you
1183 2011-03-25 11:56:58 <genjix> < BlueMatt> what is with this obsession with using gpg as an encryption method
1184 2011-03-25 11:57:04 <genjix> just explaining the logic behind that.
1185 2011-03-25 11:57:21 <BlueMatt> genjix: Im talking about the obsession with using gpg to encrypt files once then back them up all over the place
1186 2011-03-25 11:57:34 <BlueMatt> it is very useful if you want to make constant backups of your wallet
1187 2011-03-25 11:57:56 <BlueMatt> then its just scriptable and you can use one key to encrypt/one to decrypt
1188 2011-03-25 11:58:12 <BlueMatt> that is great, but for his situation and many others there is no point using gpg and its less secure any way
1189 2011-03-25 11:58:52 <genjix> im sure he's uploading his priv key everywhere :)
1190 2011-03-25 11:59:07 <BlueMatt> that is worthless
1191 2011-03-25 11:59:17 <BlueMatt> then you are depending on the security of two cryptosystems
1192 2011-03-25 11:59:18 <BlueMatt> not just oen
1193 2011-03-25 11:59:20 <BlueMatt> one*
1194 2011-03-25 11:59:29 adlsaks has joined
1195 2011-03-25 11:59:33 <BlueMatt> for his situation its hundreds of times better to use one system like aes
1196 2011-03-25 11:59:35 <genjix> 2 > 1
1197 2011-03-25 11:59:43 <BlueMatt> not even close
1198 2011-03-25 11:59:58 <BlueMatt> because in his case if either is broken he is fucked not just if both are
1199 2011-03-25 12:00:01 <genjix> ok, that's wrong.
1200 2011-03-25 12:00:07 <BlueMatt> how so?
1201 2011-03-25 12:00:13 <genjix> i meant "2 > 1"
1202 2011-03-25 12:00:33 <genjix> but in this case rsa+aes is pretty well established on the net + proven.
1203 2011-03-25 12:00:34 <BlueMatt> if gpg is broken, they have his wallet, if the encryption of his keypair is broken, he is fucked
1204 2011-03-25 12:00:40 slush has joined
1205 2011-03-25 12:00:41 <genjix> i wouldn't be worried about gpg being broken.
1206 2011-03-25 12:00:53 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt be worried about aes being broken either
1207 2011-03-25 12:00:56 <BlueMatt> but you never know
1208 2011-03-25 12:01:08 <BlueMatt> plus symmetric > pub/priv
1209 2011-03-25 12:01:17 <genjix> i would. because with aes, they have everything needed to crack the wallet.
1210 2011-03-25 12:01:32 <BlueMatt> genjix: same with your idea
1211 2011-03-25 12:01:36 <genjix> why is symmetric > pub/priv
1212 2011-03-25 12:01:45 <genjix> nope. not with gpg
1213 2011-03-25 12:01:49 <BlueMatt> QCs and simply better understood
1214 2011-03-25 12:02:09 <genjix> QC = ?
1215 2011-03-25 12:02:10 <BlueMatt> genjix: if you backup your key AND your wallet encrypted with said key, they can break either the key or gpg and your wallet is lost
1216 2011-03-25 12:02:36 <BlueMatt> quantum computers (I know long shot) but my point was just simpler math when it comes to crypto is always better
1217 2011-03-25 12:02:42 <genjix> if you did X and Y then Z would happen.
1218 2011-03-25 12:02:53 <curiositysquared> ya'll are crazy - but I'm still listening intently.
1219 2011-03-25 12:02:56 <genjix> except you're not supposed to do X
1220 2011-03-25 12:02:58 <BlueMatt> in your idea if you did X OR Y then you are fucked
1221 2011-03-25 12:03:09 <BlueMatt> genjix: well you have to back up your key somewhere
1222 2011-03-25 12:03:16 <BlueMatt> otherwise your wallet backups are worthless
1223 2011-03-25 12:03:23 <curiositysquared> aes + gpg!
1224 2011-03-25 12:03:26 <BlueMatt> lose the key, lose the wallet
1225 2011-03-25 12:03:27 <genjix> yeah in your super secure place irl not connected to the net and only done once!
1226 2011-03-25 12:03:40 <genjix> not like backing up your wallet every 24 hours
1227 2011-03-25 12:03:41 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: that works, but still backup of key is a problem
1228 2011-03-25 12:04:05 <BlueMatt> genjix: Im not talking about regular wallet backups Im talking about saving wallets
1229 2011-03-25 12:04:13 <BlueMatt> for regular wallet backups gpg is much better
1230 2011-03-25 12:04:16 <genjix> aha ok
1231 2011-03-25 12:04:30 <genjix> well in that case, i think openssl::seal is best.
1232 2011-03-25 12:04:36 <curiositysquared> I see your point - but how valable is you're wallet.
1233 2011-03-25 12:04:49 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: if they have your wallet they have your btc
1234 2011-03-25 12:05:10 <BlueMatt> genjix: na aes is more secure than rc4, but rc4 isnt bad
1235 2011-03-25 12:05:37 <BlueMatt> id even rather use des3, but that is fairly insecure
1236 2011-03-25 12:05:52 <BlueMatt> I end up using openssl aes for my main backups
1237 2011-03-25 12:06:01 <genjix> seal does use AES
1238 2011-03-25 12:06:23 <curiositysquared> ... right which has how much value compared to the cost of breaking gpg or aes? It's small  fries compared to what's possible if you break either.
1239 2011-03-25 12:06:25 <BlueMatt> mmm, oh ok
1240 2011-03-25 12:06:33 <genjix> in fact the cipher is user defined.
1241 2011-03-25 12:06:36 <BlueMatt> google said differently, but google is often wrong
1242 2011-03-25 12:06:37 <genjix> im using aed 256 cbc
1243 2011-03-25 12:06:39 <BlueMatt> genjix: oh ok
1244 2011-03-25 12:06:41 <genjix> aes
1245 2011-03-25 12:06:42 <curiositysquared> no one will be that interest id your wallet. I mean what you got 1 milion in it?
1246 2011-03-25 12:07:00 <BlueMatt> genjix: is there a diff between openssl seal and openssl aes-256-cbc -in infile -out outfile?
1247 2011-03-25 12:07:20 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: that is true
1248 2011-03-25 12:07:21 <genjix> yes.
1249 2011-03-25 12:07:30 <BlueMatt> genjix: with -salt?
1250 2011-03-25 12:07:33 <curiositysquared> googling openssl + seal returns mostly stack overflow posts.
1251 2011-03-25 12:07:36 <genjix> because it uses RSA
1252 2011-03-25 12:07:50 <curiositysquared> what is this ssl+seal?
1253 2011-03-25 12:07:52 <genjix> man evp_sealinit
1254 2011-03-25 12:08:00 <curiositysquared> thnx
1255 2011-03-25 12:08:08 <genjix> no :p to BlueMatt  i meant
1256 2011-03-25 12:08:10 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: but if you care about good backups openssl is more secure and more convenient
1257 2011-03-25 12:08:50 jroot has joined
1258 2011-03-25 12:09:36 <BlueMatt> genjix: so it makes a pub/priv key pair, encrypts that and then uses the pub/priv pair for encryption
1259 2011-03-25 12:09:52 <BlueMatt> how is that any better than gpg (aside from better crypto algos)?
1260 2011-03-25 12:09:57 <BlueMatt> its the same basic idea
1261 2011-03-25 12:10:38 <curiositysquared> is openssl_seal specific to php?
1262 2011-03-25 12:10:46 fax8 has joined
1263 2011-03-25 12:10:57 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: no, it looks like its a library for anything
1264 2011-03-25 12:11:45 <curiositysquared> man evp_sealinit
1265 2011-03-25 12:12:01 <curiositysquared> must not have the ssl-dev docs installed on any of the systems I've got access to at themoment
1266 2011-03-25 12:12:10 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: google it
1267 2011-03-25 12:12:20 <curiositysquared> :)
1268 2011-03-25 12:12:25 <BlueMatt> man XXXXXX always returns good results on google in the past
1269 2011-03-25 12:12:44 <curiositysquared> beat you to it but didn't beat mysel
1270 2011-03-25 12:12:46 <curiositysquared> f
1271 2011-03-25 12:12:53 <fax8> hi guys, I just discovered the bitcoin project.. some years ago I developed something pretty similar for my thesis.. details at http://bit.ly/fyuTRr
1272 2011-03-25 12:13:18 <fax8> I'd like to know if you were aware of my work, and if you used something from that?
1273 2011-03-25 12:13:34 <molecular> dude, we totally stole your idea!
1274 2011-03-25 12:13:52 <BlueMatt> fax8: ask satoshi...though he doesnt respond on public places, youd have to email him
1275 2011-03-25 12:13:57 <molecular> you should sew satoshi for 5E6 BTC
1276 2011-03-25 12:14:29 <BlueMatt> fax8: when was your thesis?
1277 2011-03-25 12:14:44 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1278 2011-03-25 12:14:45 <fax8> Dec 2006
1279 2011-03-25 12:15:52 <molecular> "based on PeerMint"
1280 2011-03-25 12:16:04 <BlueMatt> fax8: hm, yea could very well be a copy/clone/idea taken from...
1281 2011-03-25 12:16:17 <BlueMatt> fax8: though sorry but we were the first to get adoption
1282 2011-03-25 12:16:39 <BlueMatt> how different is your idea from btc?
1283 2011-03-25 12:17:39 <curiositysquared> it's dated 2007
1284 2011-03-25 12:17:53 <curiositysquared> anyway, you're paper is very very light on the security aspects.
1285 2011-03-25 12:17:56 <BlueMatt> btc is dated 2008
1286 2011-03-25 12:17:58 <curiositysquared> other than that it looks pretty cool.
1287 2011-03-25 12:18:30 <fax8> molecular: actually, there's was a lot of literature on decentralized accouting system even at that time
1288 2011-03-25 12:18:58 <molecular> ok, I wasn't aware at the time
1289 2011-03-25 12:19:03 <molecular> neither now ;)
1290 2011-03-25 12:19:10 <BlueMatt> fax8: yea the idea clearly wasnt original
1291 2011-03-25 12:19:48 <BlueMatt> but satoshi did solve it very elegantly and you have to give btc credit for gaining adoption
1292 2011-03-25 12:20:06 <molecular> yes, it seems to be working out fine so far :p
1293 2011-03-25 12:21:02 <fax8> sure, I didn't came here to say "hey, you stole my idea! you sucks!"..
1294 2011-03-25 12:21:19 <fax8> just wanted to know if my work somehow contributed to your
1295 2011-03-25 12:21:32 <fax8> I've always been up for collaborations
1296 2011-03-25 12:22:04 <BlueMatt> fax8: Id say it most certainly did
1297 2011-03-25 12:22:21 <BlueMatt> not sure of course, as satoshi really isnt much of a people person
1298 2011-03-25 12:23:17 <fax8> how can I get in touch with Satoshi? btc.org contact page doesn't list his email?
1299 2011-03-25 12:23:34 <genjix> satoshin@gmx.com i think
1300 2011-03-25 12:23:40 <genjix> not sure if thats correct
1301 2011-03-25 12:24:11 <BlueMatt> fax8: you cant...satoshi only responds to emails from a couple head devs
1302 2011-03-25 12:25:37 <CIA-96> bitcoin: tcatm master * r454bc86 / init.cpp : allow coredumps by not catching SIGSEGV - http://bit.ly/i50y74
1303 2011-03-25 12:26:33 <BlueMatt> fax8: ask gavinandresen or [mike]/TD
1304 2011-03-25 12:26:47 <BlueMatt> fax8: I dont really know what/when/if he responds
1305 2011-03-25 12:26:53 <tcatm> satoshin@gmx.com should work. I received an email from that address once.
1306 2011-03-25 12:27:06 <sipa> it's satoshin@gmx.com
1307 2011-03-25 12:28:35 <curiositysquared> been looking to drop gmail....
1308 2011-03-25 12:28:37 <curiositysquared> gmx looks good.
1309 2011-03-25 12:28:41 <curiositysquared> !respect.
1310 2011-03-25 12:28:53 <genjix> try riseup.net
1311 2011-03-25 12:28:56 <genjix> i use them
1312 2011-03-25 12:29:09 <fax8> thank you, I'll surely get in touch with them. we do have a quite strong research group on p2p, may be cool to start collaborating..
1313 2011-03-25 12:29:16 <fax8> thanks everybody. have a nice day.
1314 2011-03-25 12:29:53 <genjix> everyone's here if you want to collab now :)
1315 2011-03-25 12:29:56 <genjix> there's no boss
1316 2011-03-25 12:30:01 <noagendamarket> lol
1317 2011-03-25 12:30:13 <noagendamarket> is this like the facebook movie or waht ?
1318 2011-03-25 12:30:35 <ArtForz> tcatm: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4904.0 <- any good ideas other than "put half a ton of CRITICAL_SECTION(cs_main) in rpc.cpp" ?
1319 2011-03-25 12:30:41 m00p has joined
1320 2011-03-25 12:30:48 <ArtForz> err, CRITICAL_BLOCK ofc
1321 2011-03-25 12:31:10 <genjix> ArtForz: use cascading template classes
1322 2011-03-25 12:31:30 <genjix> so you make an inheritance graph for locking scopes
1323 2011-03-25 12:31:33 <BlueMatt> noagendamarket: no facebook got sued
1324 2011-03-25 12:31:43 <BlueMatt> noagendamarket: here, fax8 is being civil
1325 2011-03-25 12:31:47 <genjix> i think boost has a lib for it.
1326 2011-03-25 12:31:54 <noagendamarket> :)
1327 2011-03-25 12:33:10 dmnd_ has joined
1328 2011-03-25 12:33:11 dmnd_ has quit (Changing host)
1329 2011-03-25 12:33:11 dmnd_ has joined
1330 2011-03-25 12:33:24 <noagendamarket> is there an  actual client to look at ?
1331 2011-03-25 12:33:29 Vladimir has joined
1332 2011-03-25 12:33:38 <noagendamarket> to compare with the original bitcoin one ?
1333 2011-03-25 12:33:53 <noagendamarket> how would you even prove prior art ?
1334 2011-03-25 12:34:23 <noagendamarket> could it be a bitcoin competitor ?
1335 2011-03-25 12:34:33 <noagendamarket> just some questions I wonder about
1336 2011-03-25 12:34:41 <BlueMatt> noagendamarket: he could, but he is trying to help everyone instead of being a dick
1337 2011-03-25 12:34:52 <noagendamarket> I realise that
1338 2011-03-25 12:35:05 <fax8> http://www.varesano.net/files/COIN-source.tar.gz
1339 2011-03-25 12:35:08 <tcatm> ArtForz: mhm doesn't seem to be simple at all ;)
1340 2011-03-25 12:35:11 dmnd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1341 2011-03-25 12:35:12 dmnd_ is now known as dmnd
1342 2011-03-25 12:35:20 <noagendamarket> thanks fax8
1343 2011-03-25 12:37:39 <fax8> the actual protocol is described in the thesis.. which is in italian.. but with many graphs and math.. which should be international
1344 2011-03-25 12:37:41 <fax8> http://www.varesano.net/files/FabioVaresano-COIN.pdf
1345 2011-03-25 12:37:50 <noagendamarket> someone who knows the code should look at it Im not a dev ...
1346 2011-03-25 12:38:05 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: genjix tcatm maybe?
1347 2011-03-25 12:38:14 <noagendamarket> I also dont speak italian
1348 2011-03-25 12:38:25 <BlueMatt> google translate tends to help with that ;)
1349 2011-03-25 12:38:54 <noagendamarket> :)-
1350 2011-03-25 12:39:03 <noagendamarket> for a pdf ?
1351 2011-03-25 12:39:21 <BlueMatt> copy/paste maybe?
1352 2011-03-25 12:39:52 <dbitcoin> ;;bc, gen 1300000
1353 2011-03-25 12:39:53 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
1354 2011-03-25 12:40:34 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 1300000
1355 2011-03-25 12:40:35 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 18.9561885987 BTC per day and 0.789841191611 BTC per hour.
1356 2011-03-25 12:40:51 noot has left ()
1357 2011-03-25 12:43:05 <tcatm> ArtForz: looks like the account feature (GetAccountBalance()) is the "problem" but I have no good idea to work around it (other than reserve bitcoins of a account, and then releasing them if SendMoney.. fails)
1358 2011-03-25 12:44:15 <ArtForz> I have to check more code paths, but I think we have quite a few possible deadlocks in rpc
1359 2011-03-25 12:45:36 <noagendamarket> Does satoshi keep up to date on the latest code ?
1360 2011-03-25 12:45:48 <BlueMatt> araik yes
1361 2011-03-25 12:45:53 <BlueMatt> afaik*
1362 2011-03-25 12:46:14 Keybaud has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1363 2011-03-25 12:49:01 <ArtForz> CreateTransaction/CommitTransaction/SendMoney all take cs_main, we *can't* call those with cs_anything held without taking cs_main first
1364 2011-03-25 12:52:09 gruez has joined
1365 2011-03-25 12:52:57 <ArtForz> okay, only paths cthat do that, sendfrom and sendmany
1366 2011-03-25 12:53:46 gasteve has joined
1367 2011-03-25 12:54:16 Diablo-D3 has joined
1368 2011-03-25 12:56:38 fabio_ has joined
1369 2011-03-25 12:56:46 <ArtForz> so those 2 need to take cs_main before taking cs_mapWallet
1370 2011-03-25 12:57:43 gr0gmint has joined
1371 2011-03-25 12:59:21 fax8 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1372 2011-03-25 13:02:28 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1373 2011-03-25 13:02:53 molecular has joined
1374 2011-03-25 13:03:47 fabio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1375 2011-03-25 13:06:27 Joozero has joined
1376 2011-03-25 13:06:30 <kiba> Soon, even your grandma will be ruled by a bitcoin overlord!
1377 2011-03-25 13:06:40 <Joozero> how can I add a language to the wiki?
1378 2011-03-25 13:11:02 <Joozero> is there anyone?
1379 2011-03-25 13:11:58 <tcatm> Joozero: genjix might be able to help you
1380 2011-03-25 13:12:18 <genjix> is CDataStream used only for serialising data into the wallet? or should it be used for any large data sets?
1381 2011-03-25 13:12:24 <genjix> Joozero: hold on let me see how.
1382 2011-03-25 13:13:09 <Joozero> I just want to start to translate it in Italian during my free time
1383 2011-03-25 13:13:38 <Joozero> like I did with the client
1384 2011-03-25 13:14:12 <kiba> Good morning bitcoiners
1385 2011-03-25 13:15:57 <genjix> meh, i think it need access to the actual server
1386 2011-03-25 13:16:01 * genjix pokes MagicalTux 
1387 2011-03-25 13:16:13 <genjix> MagicalTux: can you add it (italian) wiki for Joozero ?
1388 2011-03-25 13:16:31 <genjix> Joozero: he will add it when he's back around hopefully :)
1389 2011-03-25 13:17:12 <Joozero> ok, I'll check it tomorrow :)
1390 2011-03-25 13:22:13 <Blitzboom> i’d want a german one, too
1391 2011-03-25 13:26:15 niekie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1392 2011-03-25 13:27:29 <sirius-m> and russian
1393 2011-03-25 13:28:04 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1394 2011-03-25 13:31:08 <genjix> MagicalTux: italian (it), german (de) and russian (ru) wikis plox
1395 2011-03-25 13:32:36 <BlueMatt> really and no one can translate a half of a sentence for upnp?
1396 2011-03-25 13:33:06 spaetz has left ()
1397 2011-03-25 13:33:09 Hiro_Protagonist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1398 2011-03-25 13:33:46 <genjix> BlueMatt: ?
1399 2011-03-25 13:34:56 tower has joined
1400 2011-03-25 13:35:34 <BlueMatt> I just need " and UPnP software written by Thomas Bernard." into de, es, fr, it, pt and ru
1401 2011-03-25 13:35:46 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1402 2011-03-25 13:35:55 <justmoon> de: "und UPnP Software, entwickelt von Thomas Bernard"
1403 2011-03-25 13:36:15 <BlueMatt> thanks
1404 2011-03-25 13:37:21 <Blitzboom> UPnP-Software, to be precise
1405 2011-03-25 13:38:11 <BlueMatt> I guess I could have done that one myself...in any case es, fr, it, pt and ru would be nice, anyone else?
1406 2011-03-25 13:38:25 <genjix> i can do eo
1407 2011-03-25 13:38:39 <justmoon> ru: "vodka, vodka, nastrowje, Thomas Bernard" :D
1408 2011-03-25 13:38:48 <genjix> haha
1409 2011-03-25 13:38:54 <BlueMatt> ha, sounds right to me
1410 2011-03-25 13:39:55 gavinandresen has joined
1411 2011-03-25 13:43:16 <sipa> BlueMatt: "et des logiciels UPnP écrit par Thomas Bernard."
1412 2011-03-25 13:43:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: in?
1413 2011-03-25 13:43:35 <sipa> fr
1414 2011-03-25 13:43:36 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1415 2011-03-25 13:43:48 <BlueMatt> thanks
1416 2011-03-25 13:43:49 <sipa> disclaimer: i'm no native french speaker
1417 2011-03-25 13:44:00 <BlueMatt> sipa: its close enough
1418 2011-03-25 13:44:53 <sipa> BlueMatt: what's the part of the sentence before?
1419 2011-03-25 13:45:09 <BlueMatt> Ce produit comprend des composants logiciels développés pour le Projet OpenSSL \n"
1420 2011-03-25 13:45:09 <BlueMatt> "OpenSSL Toolkit (http://www.openssl.org/) ainsi que des composants cryptographiques \n"
1421 2011-03-25 13:45:10 <BlueMatt> "écrits par Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com)."
1422 2011-03-25 13:45:20 <BlueMatt> "This product includes software developed by the OpenSSL Project for use in the \n"
1423 2011-03-25 13:45:20 <BlueMatt> "OpenSSL Toolkit (http://www.openssl.org/) and cryptographic software written by \n"
1424 2011-03-25 13:45:20 <BlueMatt> "Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com) and UPnP software written by Thomas Bernard."
1425 2011-03-25 13:45:52 <sipa> ok, ecrit -> ecrits
1426 2011-03-25 13:48:49 <BlueMatt> so...es, it, nl, pt, or ru?
1427 2011-03-25 13:49:39 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1428 2011-03-25 13:50:49 <sipa> nl you already have, i believe, and with the rest i can't help you
1429 2011-03-25 13:51:39 <BlueMatt> oh woops, yes you are correct
1430 2011-03-25 13:51:52 AmpEater has joined
1431 2011-03-25 14:01:09 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1432 2011-03-25 14:02:37 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix <fake@lol.u> * rdb8d3867a1c2 intersango/fulfill_order.php: moved to cron/
1433 2011-03-25 14:02:40 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix <fake@lol.u> * rfd9ea1193045 intersango/DATABASE: new field indicating whether order has been checked yet.
1434 2011-03-25 14:06:31 tower has joined
1435 2011-03-25 14:10:45 amiller has joined
1436 2011-03-25 14:17:25 fabio_ has joined
1437 2011-03-25 14:18:26 gr0gmint has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1438 2011-03-25 14:19:10 glassresistor has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1439 2011-03-25 14:20:57 newbie026 has joined
1440 2011-03-25 14:22:10 niekie has joined
1441 2011-03-25 14:22:26 <newbie026> I was wondering if the block chain records everything, what happen after this has been going for many years, wont the chain get to big to handle?
1442 2011-03-25 14:22:59 <sipa> yes, but not everything in it will need to be kept
1443 2011-03-25 14:23:17 <sipa> spent transactions can be removed (although this is not yet implemented in the main client)
1444 2011-03-25 14:24:08 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1445 2011-03-25 14:26:50 <gasteve> I was also wondering whether clients could compute a consolidated set of balances for each block and share it such that all clients wouldn't have to process the entire chain when starting up....but there would need to be some system in place that ensured some minimum number of diverse clients have all independently computed that synopsis
1446 2011-03-25 14:27:26 <gasteve> this would allows clients to not have to re-validate everything that has happened since the beginning
1447 2011-03-25 14:28:23 <gasteve> or, perhaps on a monthly basis, such a synopsis could be computed and signed by a number of individuals in the community
1448 2011-03-25 14:29:01 <gasteve> (a client could then optionally just download the synopsis from the beginning of the month and all the blocks since)
1449 2011-03-25 14:29:34 <newbie026> what is the current block count I have 63K and still counting.
1450 2011-03-25 14:29:46 <subpar> 114991
1451 2011-03-25 14:30:08 <gasteve> newbie026: you can see the current block count at bitcoinwatch.com
1452 2011-03-25 14:31:02 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
1453 2011-03-25 14:31:03 <gribble> 114992
1454 2011-03-25 14:31:08 <tcatm> gasteve: a client doesn't need to revalidate all blocks (except checking hash)
1455 2011-03-25 14:31:10 fabio_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1456 2011-03-25 14:32:08 <gasteve> doesn't the current client validate all the transactions inside a block?
1457 2011-03-25 14:32:41 <Vladimir> could someone please remind me how to bc,gen for a given difficulty
1458 2011-03-25 14:32:50 <nanotube> Vladimir: bc,gend
1459 2011-03-25 14:33:02 <nanotube> and more generally, see ,,(bc,wiki gribble) :)
1460 2011-03-25 14:33:02 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Gribble | Feb 17, 2011 ... gribble is a modified Supybot IRC bot, carrying some useful bitcoin-related commands and factoids. The bot's command sequence is ';;' ...
1461 2011-03-25 14:33:30 <Vladimir> thanks a bunch!
1462 2011-03-25 14:33:35 <nanotube> np :)
1463 2011-03-25 14:34:05 <tcatm> gasteve: yep. it could work with blocheaders only, too.
1464 2011-03-25 14:36:15 <newbie026> gasteve: ok, had a look at that.
1465 2011-03-25 14:38:34 <luke-jr> genjix: poke
1466 2011-03-25 14:38:51 <gasteve> it's desirable to have all (or at least many) caught up clients validating all transactions in each new block...but it's also desirable for clients to be able to catch-up and become current without having to download the full blocks and validate all of their transactions...yet, once caught up, to also have enough info (i.e. current balances) to be able to start validating new blocks as they arrive
1467 2011-03-25 14:40:03 Teslah has joined
1468 2011-03-25 14:40:05 <gasteve> (actually, any client that isn't validating the transactions in a block should never forward blocks)
1469 2011-03-25 14:40:09 <newbie026> seems someone spent over 1000USD on some bitcoin just a few minutes ago.   now that some serious cash.
1470 2011-03-25 14:40:52 <Vladimir> newbie026: people sned much larger amount of money on bitcoins all the time, trust me, I know
1471 2011-03-25 14:41:08 <Vladimir> s/sned/spend/
1472 2011-03-25 14:41:27 * newbie026 oh...
1473 2011-03-25 14:41:41 <tcatm> gasteve: it's easy: download all block headers and validate only new blocks (i.e. the only blocks that can contain transactions from you). when you receive a transaction you request the input transactions and their input hashes and check in which blocks they are
1474 2011-03-25 14:43:21 <newbie026> can the block chain be reset somehow.   I mean this is getting tiresome even now.  what it going to be like 5 or 10 years from now.
1475 2011-03-25 14:43:25 <gasteve> ah....ok...so you just chase the history as necessary to validate...makes perfect sense
1476 2011-03-25 14:44:02 <gasteve> newbie026: yes, there is work being done such that only headers have to be downloaded
1477 2011-03-25 14:44:48 <gasteve> tcatm: when you chase prior transactions, how do you verify that those earlier transactions are actually embedded in the block chain?
1478 2011-03-25 14:45:11 <tcatm> you request the block and compare the hash
1479 2011-03-25 14:45:11 <luke-jr> IMO, blocks other than the last 10 should just be accepted
1480 2011-03-25 14:45:15 <luke-jr> no checking
1481 2011-03-25 14:46:49 <gasteve> how do you know which block to request though?  if all you have is the input transaction id, you wouldn't know which block it's in (or would you search in blocks occurring after the timestamp of the transaction?)
1482 2011-03-25 14:47:30 <tcatm> I think that's a feature the protocol doesn't have yet. You could use blockexplorer.com until we solved that.
1483 2011-03-25 14:47:33 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
1484 2011-03-25 14:47:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114994 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1933 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 79170.15539456
1485 2011-03-25 14:48:44 <gasteve> I think what I described would work though...you start your search with the next block after the timestamp of transaction and work forward from there until you verify the transaction is in a block (or not)
1486 2011-03-25 14:49:23 <tcatm> Or your client just keeps the merkle tree (i.e. only tx hashes) for each block
1487 2011-03-25 14:49:51 <gasteve> that's what I meant (you don't need the full transactions, just the hashes)
1488 2011-03-25 14:50:09 <gasteve> all you're trying to do is verify that the transaction is indeed in the block chain
1489 2011-03-25 14:50:34 Avemo has joined
1490 2011-03-25 14:52:24 Vladimir has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1491 2011-03-25 14:53:23 <newbie026> to generate a new block, wouldn't you need just the last couple of blocks?  so download the last 1000 or so (just to be sure you got any transactions needed) and go from there.
1492 2011-03-25 14:56:40 <genjix> luke-jr: hey
1493 2011-03-25 14:56:46 Joozero has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1494 2011-03-25 14:57:36 <tcatm> newbie026: you need all unspent transactions to verify new transactions that you include in a new block
1495 2011-03-25 15:01:44 <luke-jr> genjix: can we get a license on Spesmilo?
1496 2011-03-25 15:01:50 <genjix> you choose
1497 2011-03-25 15:01:52 <genjix> i like GPL3
1498 2011-03-25 15:03:16 <newbie026> tcatm: how long can a transaction go unspent?
1499 2011-03-25 15:03:41 <BlueMatt> newbie026: to infinity
1500 2011-03-25 15:03:54 <gasteve> and beyond
1501 2011-03-25 15:04:14 <tcatm> yep
1502 2011-03-25 15:04:38 <newbie026> tcatm: oh great.
1503 2011-03-25 15:05:17 doood has joined
1504 2011-03-25 15:06:25 <newbie026> tcatm: so if I get some coin, and never use it, does that count as unspent?
1505 2011-03-25 15:06:37 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b that's the oldest unspent transaction
1506 2011-03-25 15:06:55 <tcatm> newbie026: yep, that's the definition of "unspent transaction"
1507 2011-03-25 15:08:47 <newbie026> tcatm: so there is current 5.7 million coins unspent (except for those in transit) somewhere atm.
1508 2011-03-25 15:09:04 <tcatm> yep
1509 2011-03-25 15:09:24 <doood> thanks again for whoever put me onto mybitcoin.com the other day... (luke-jr maybe?) their SCI is working great
1510 2011-03-25 15:09:30 <luke-jr> not I
1511 2011-03-25 15:09:32 <tcatm> that's about 114k transactions
1512 2011-03-25 15:09:42 <luke-jr> genjix: can we BSDL?
1513 2011-03-25 15:09:43 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1514 2011-03-25 15:10:43 <genjix> luke-jr: what's wrong with GPL3? (curious)
1515 2011-03-25 15:11:42 <luke-jr> genjix: ties my hands, if I want to license differently
1516 2011-03-25 15:12:03 <genjix> kk go for it then
1517 2011-03-25 15:12:07 <genjix> BSD license :p
1518 2011-03-25 15:12:16 <luke-jr> I like the GPL terms, but it can be a nusance sometimes :P
1519 2011-03-25 15:12:46 <luke-jr> genjix: what's your legal name?
1520 2011-03-25 15:13:06 wormwood has left ()
1521 2011-03-25 15:13:08 <genjix> you can have the copyright
1522 2011-03-25 15:13:17 <luke-jr> …ok
1523 2011-03-25 15:13:18 <genjix> i dislike dealing with these things in general
1524 2011-03-25 15:13:42 <luke-jr> in that case, I'd be fine putting GPLv3 since a single copyright holder can always change it on a whim
1525 2011-03-25 15:13:59 <genjix> ok cool :)
1526 2011-03-25 15:14:52 <luke-jr> genjix: just to be sure, you aren't under any contract with some company saying they own everything you do? :P
1527 2011-03-25 15:15:04 m00p has joined
1528 2011-03-25 15:15:28 <genjix> no
1529 2011-03-25 15:15:30 subpar has joined
1530 2011-03-25 15:15:30 subpar has quit (Changing host)
1531 2011-03-25 15:15:30 subpar has joined
1532 2011-03-25 15:15:32 <genjix> im as free as a bird
1533 2011-03-25 15:15:41 <genjix> (and it will stay that way)
1534 2011-03-25 15:15:46 <newbie026> if this really takes off I wonder how the goverments will react to not being able to tax this?  probably try to shut it down somehow!
1535 2011-03-25 15:16:01 <luke-jr> newbie026: they can and do tax it
1536 2011-03-25 15:16:11 <luke-jr> or rather, they just tax income in general usually
1537 2011-03-25 15:17:40 <doood> can someone answer a couple of q's for me... those 114997 blocks that EVERY client downloads... does that contain every transaction since the very beginning?
1538 2011-03-25 15:17:52 <justmoon> doood: yes
1539 2011-03-25 15:17:58 TDX_ is now known as TD
1540 2011-03-25 15:18:02 <TD> sup justmoon
1541 2011-03-25 15:18:11 <doood> so... will it always contain every transaction?
1542 2011-03-25 15:18:16 <newbie026> luke-jr: I go to the taxman and say I have made 5000 bitcoin this year... he says what!
1543 2011-03-25 15:18:21 <TD> haha.
1544 2011-03-25 15:18:26 <doood> in 100 years, will all clients have 100 years worth of transactions to download?
1545 2011-03-25 15:18:36 <luke-jr> newbie026: you need to convert it to fiat currency when you were paid
1546 2011-03-25 15:18:51 <justmoon> doood: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
1547 2011-03-25 15:18:53 * TD just finished a discussion with his tax advisor about that
1548 2011-03-25 15:18:55 <luke-jr> that is, if I pay you 10 BTC today, figure out how much it's worth in fiat, and pay tax on that
1549 2011-03-25 15:18:56 <justmoon> TD: sup!
1550 2011-03-25 15:18:58 <doood> cheers jm
1551 2011-03-25 15:19:01 <TD> i gave up. maybe next year i'll have enough bitcoins to be worth declaring :-)
1552 2011-03-25 15:19:10 <luke-jr> TD: is my summary accurate? :p
1553 2011-03-25 15:19:34 <TD> of course governments can tax it
1554 2011-03-25 15:20:19 <TD> luke-jr: so yes i guess your summary is accurate :-) i didn't read much back though
1555 2011-03-25 15:21:46 <doood> they can tax it if you declare it... just that it will be much easier to not declare it vs money in a regular bank.
1556 2011-03-25 15:22:14 <luke-jr> doood: they can tax it period. if you neglect to declare it, that may be illegal.
1557 2011-03-25 15:22:28 <doood> with the help of truecrypt i'm sure many will never declare it
1558 2011-03-25 15:22:28 <luke-jr> don't confuse law with enforcement
1559 2011-03-25 15:23:31 <genjix> :)))))))))))))
1560 2011-03-25 15:23:43 <genjix> "don't confuse law with enforcement" < nice
1561 2011-03-25 15:23:49 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1562 2011-03-25 15:23:52 <doood> how can they tax it if you don't declare it? sorry i am confused about that
1563 2011-03-25 15:24:15 <luke-jr> doood: they make a law saying you have to pay taxes. done.
1564 2011-03-25 15:24:25 <TD> if the govt has reason to believe you use bitcoins they can require you to present your wallet on demand, for example.
1565 2011-03-25 15:24:26 <doood> oh okay, i understand
1566 2011-03-25 15:24:36 <TD> and presumably you trade with real people and companies with your coins
1567 2011-03-25 15:24:40 <TD> so finding that out is not especially hard
1568 2011-03-25 15:24:46 <TD> governments have been doing this sort of thing for a long time.
1569 2011-03-25 15:24:54 <TD> i don't think you want to try and outsmart them
1570 2011-03-25 15:25:07 * kiba got an idea for an ambitious project
1571 2011-03-25 15:25:47 <luke-jr> genjix: btw, what is kalam.pro
1572 2011-03-25 15:26:09 <genjix> luke-jr: it's the file which generate the il8n translation files.
1573 2011-03-25 15:26:33 <genjix> you need to regenerate it when new strings are introduced into the source code so that the translation tool can find them.
1574 2011-03-25 15:26:42 <genjix> (it's a project file for translations)
1575 2011-03-25 15:26:43 <luke-jr> genjix: it just errors for me
1576 2011-03-25 15:26:58 <luke-jr> genjix: I wrote a standard Makefile that does that XD
1577 2011-03-25 15:27:07 <genjix> pyside-lupdate kalam.pro
1578 2011-03-25 15:27:25 dotblank has joined
1579 2011-03-25 15:27:29 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 400000
1580 2011-03-25 15:27:30 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5.83267341497 BTC per day and 0.243028058957 BTC per hour.
1581 2011-03-25 15:27:31 <luke-jr> O.o
1582 2011-03-25 15:27:45 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1583 2011-03-25 15:27:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 114999 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1928 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 81276.64515640
1584 2011-03-25 15:27:52 <JFK911> 81276
1585 2011-03-25 15:31:30 <dotblank> from a mobile standpoint I don't know how effective running a node would be
1586 2011-03-25 15:32:20 <newbie026> well I off and generating @ 1704khash/s
1587 2011-03-25 15:32:20 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r9b3be0ac9bf8 spesmilo/ (6 files): GPLv3 copying terms; genjix has assigned copyright to me
1588 2011-03-25 15:32:46 <justmoon> weusecoins mining guide first draft is up ( http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4938.0 )
1589 2011-03-25 15:33:07 * kiba plans out his game patronage strategy
1590 2011-03-25 15:33:13 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1591 2011-03-25 15:34:19 <luke-jr> genjix: btw, care to update Esperanto ts?
1592 2011-03-25 15:35:20 Lartza has joined
1593 2011-03-25 15:35:28 Lartza has quit (Changing host)
1594 2011-03-25 15:35:28 Lartza has joined
1595 2011-03-25 15:36:22 <BlueMatt> anyone care to translate "and UPnP software written by Thomas Bernard." into it, pt, or ru?
1596 2011-03-25 15:36:23 <x6763> wow, thw estimate is 81276? MM must be back?
1597 2011-03-25 15:36:34 Lartza has left ()
1598 2011-03-25 15:36:51 <sipa> i doubt it: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
1599 2011-03-25 15:37:25 <x6763> yeah, i guess maybe not
1600 2011-03-25 15:38:15 <CIA-96> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rd758eef / DiabloMiner-OSX.sh : Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/jwadamson/DiabloMiner into t_osxicon - http://bit.ly/eDmiku
1601 2011-03-25 15:39:16 legion050 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1602 2011-03-25 15:41:42 <genjix> luke-jr: for Spesmilo, right?
1603 2011-03-25 15:41:55 <luke-jr> genjix: yeah, I added some strings
1604 2011-03-25 15:42:29 <genjix> is it a lot becos I'm under a lot of pressure for time this next week :p ... otherwise if it's a few sentences then sure.
1605 2011-03-25 15:43:26 <genjix> if it is, then silently disable it... when i come back around ill do them
1606 2011-03-25 15:43:32 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats 340000
1607 2011-03-25 15:43:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115001 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1926 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 17 hours, 56 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 79467.52322095
1608 2011-03-25 15:43:39 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 340000
1609 2011-03-25 15:43:41 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 340000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4.95777240272 BTC per day and 0.206573850114 BTC per hour.
1610 2011-03-25 15:45:03 m00p has joined
1611 2011-03-25 15:45:04 LtBrenton has joined
1612 2011-03-25 15:45:20 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,stats
1613 2011-03-25 15:45:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115001 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1926 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 17 hours, 56 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 79467.52322095
1614 2011-03-25 15:45:39 <luke-jr> genjix: a few words, not even sentences, I think
1615 2011-03-25 15:45:48 <LtBrenton> dear god, that 80k is gonna suck :x
1616 2011-03-25 15:45:48 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 600000
1617 2011-03-25 15:45:49 javagamer has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1618 2011-03-25 15:45:50 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 8.74901012246 BTC per day and 0.364542088436 BTC per hour.
1619 2011-03-25 15:45:55 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 600000
1620 2011-03-25 15:45:55 <genjix> luke-jr: oh sure!
1621 2011-03-25 15:45:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5 days, 17 hours, 9 minutes, and 30 seconds
1622 2011-03-25 15:46:06 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 600000 80000
1623 2011-03-25 15:46:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 80000, is 6 days, 15 hours, 4 minutes, and 22 seconds
1624 2011-03-25 15:46:09 <luke-jr> hmm
1625 2011-03-25 15:46:22 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1626 2011-03-25 15:46:26 <genjix> just paste them to pastebin.com
1627 2011-03-25 15:46:33 <newbie026> ;;bc,gen 1600
1628 2011-03-25 15:46:37 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1600 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0233306936599 BTC per day and 0.000972112235828 BTC per hour.
1629 2011-03-25 15:46:38 <luke-jr> genjix: … you don't have a checkout? -.-
1630 2011-03-25 15:46:53 brunner has joined
1631 2011-03-25 15:47:19 <genjix> no, this is a new install
1632 2011-03-25 15:48:26 <luke-jr> genjix: I assume "TBC" and "BTC" are the same?
1633 2011-03-25 15:49:06 <genjix> yep
1634 2011-03-25 15:49:08 <luke-jr> "Error sending" "Your send failed: %s"
1635 2011-03-25 15:49:25 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,calc 300000
1636 2011-03-25 15:49:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 week, 4 days, 10 hours, 19 minutes, and 0 seconds
1637 2011-03-25 15:49:37 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,gen 300000
1638 2011-03-25 15:49:38 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4.37450506123 BTC per day and 0.182271044218 BTC per hour.
1639 2011-03-25 15:52:07 <genjix> "Sendo eraris"  "Via sendo malsukcesis: %s"
1640 2011-03-25 15:52:10 <genjix> luke-jr:
1641 2011-03-25 15:52:51 <luke-jr> genjix: "&OK" "&Apply" "Settings" "Use internal core" "URI:" "American" "English" "Esperanto" "Language" "Assume" "Prefer" "Force" "Decimal" "Tonal" "Number system:" "Hide preferred unit name"
1642 2011-03-25 15:53:34 <doood> justmoon: After reading the Scalability wiki, I found this line helpful: "The software today does not implement pruning and so far, nobody has done studies of the existing block chain to see how much space could be reclaimed."
1643 2011-03-25 15:53:59 <tcatm> 59MB could be reclaimed
1644 2011-03-25 15:54:20 <doood> so the wiki is out of date? where did you get 59mb from?
1645 2011-03-25 15:55:10 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1646 2011-03-25 15:55:13 <tcatm> I wrote a script to parse the blockchain and find all unspent transactions, then calculated their size and assumed we only store the hash (32byte).
1647 2011-03-25 15:55:26 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1648 2011-03-25 15:55:27 <tcatm> s/unspent/spent/
1649 2011-03-25 15:55:30 phantomcircuit_ has joined
1650 2011-03-25 15:55:44 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Client Quit)
1651 2011-03-25 15:55:52 phantomcircuit has joined
1652 2011-03-25 15:55:55 <justmoon> tcatm: until you posted that correction I was *very* confused for a second :D
1653 2011-03-25 15:56:07 <doood> tcatm: interesting... so if we say that's about 50% of the file... do you think that % would change much over time?
1654 2011-03-25 15:56:07 <gasteve> when you spend, does the balance of each of the input addresses have to be fully consumed in the transaction?  (hence the reason that an output for the change is usually needed)
1655 2011-03-25 15:57:02 <justmoon> doood: well you'd do it once, after that it would just grow more slowly
1656 2011-03-25 15:57:04 <tcatm> doood: that's hard to predict
1657 2011-03-25 15:58:30 <doood> justmoon: yes of course after you've pruned once, the % of the next pruning would be completely different.
1658 2011-03-25 15:59:07 <justmoon> exactly
1659 2011-03-25 15:59:29 <doood> but just curious if it were left untouched, and the file grew to 100Gb, if tcatm's method would prune the same % as what has just been calc'd recently.
1660 2011-03-25 16:00:53 <tcatm> I'd imagine bitcoins will get more fragmented once the userbase grows increasing the number of unspent transactions.
1661 2011-03-25 16:01:18 <sipa> gasteve: you consume full transaction outputs at a time
1662 2011-03-25 16:01:22 <sipa> gasteve: not addresses
1663 2011-03-25 16:01:31 <sipa> it's very possible to have the change go back to the address it came from
1664 2011-03-25 16:01:37 <sipa> but the current client does not do so
1665 2011-03-25 16:01:48 <Diablo-D3> man
1666 2011-03-25 16:01:55 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck doesnt the bitcoin forum email me
1667 2011-03-25 16:01:58 AmpEater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1668 2011-03-25 16:02:54 <doood> userbase grows, but unspent transactions grow at the same rate... so pruning should yield the same % under that argument, no?
1669 2011-03-25 16:03:02 devrandom has joined
1670 2011-03-25 16:03:19 <doood> i.e. same overall fragmentation levels
1671 2011-03-25 16:03:27 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1672 2011-03-25 16:03:29 <Diablo-D3> anyone know?
1673 2011-03-25 16:03:48 <alias420> check your spam
1674 2011-03-25 16:04:00 <Diablo-D3> alias420: no, its not emailing at all
1675 2011-03-25 16:04:06 <alias420> anone?
1676 2011-03-25 16:04:15 <Diablo-D3> the notify button for threads is missing too
1677 2011-03-25 16:04:34 <alias420> lol
1678 2011-03-25 16:04:53 <alias420> I think you might be the right guy to ask
1679 2011-03-25 16:05:16 <alias420> I tried to run diablo and it was giving me an error about not finding opencl class
1680 2011-03-25 16:06:05 <Diablo-D3> yes, you need an opencl impl installed to use my miner
1681 2011-03-25 16:06:06 <alias420> err my bad
1682 2011-03-25 16:06:08 <alias420> xception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/commons/cli/ParseException
1683 2011-03-25 16:06:13 <Diablo-D3> oh
1684 2011-03-25 16:06:14 <alias420> apache
1685 2011-03-25 16:06:26 <alias420> sorry opencl was a diff error I had somewhere else
1686 2011-03-25 16:06:28 <Diablo-D3> nope, commons cli
1687 2011-03-25 16:06:36 <Diablo-D3> I need the full backtrace for that
1688 2011-03-25 16:06:54 <alias420> it's for my macbook pro
1689 2011-03-25 16:07:02 <alias420> was there something I didnt' install?
1690 2011-03-25 16:07:07 <Diablo-D3> there should be a bunch of lines under that exception
1691 2011-03-25 16:07:08 <Diablo-D3> I need them
1692 2011-03-25 16:07:24 <alias420> how do I get those
1693 2011-03-25 16:07:31 <alias420> taht is a copy paste of my terminal
1694 2011-03-25 16:08:01 <alias420> are there more detailed exception logs I can pull?
1695 2011-03-25 16:08:14 <Diablo-D3> it should have listed it after the exception
1696 2011-03-25 16:08:24 <alias420> I saw a couple other mac users had that with no resolution that I found
1697 2011-03-25 16:08:25 * luke-jr pokes genjix
1698 2011-03-25 16:08:31 <alias420> I just gave up on mining with my macbook pro
1699 2011-03-25 16:08:37 <Diablo-D3> alias420: okay, how did you get my miner?
1700 2011-03-25 16:08:49 <Diablo-D3> from the zip?
1701 2011-03-25 16:08:56 <alias420> yeah I downloaded it
1702 2011-03-25 16:08:57 <luke-jr> alias420: are you using Snow Leopard?
1703 2011-03-25 16:09:02 <alias420> no
1704 2011-03-25 16:09:10 <alias420> previous
1705 2011-03-25 16:09:16 <Diablo-D3> you have to be on snow leopard to use opencl, btw
1706 2011-03-25 16:09:22 <alias420> ahh
1707 2011-03-25 16:09:23 <Diablo-D3> but thats NOT an opencl error, so Im confused.
1708 2011-03-25 16:09:44 <Diablo-D3> that exception implies it cant find commons cli
1709 2011-03-25 16:09:52 <alias420> yeah
1710 2011-03-25 16:10:20 <Diablo-D3> do java -version
1711 2011-03-25 16:10:22 Lartza has joined
1712 2011-03-25 16:10:30 Lartza has quit (Changing host)
1713 2011-03-25 16:10:30 Lartza has joined
1714 2011-03-25 16:11:08 <Diablo-D3> because Im wondering if 10.5 just has an ancient version of java
1715 2011-03-25 16:11:14 <alias420> java version "1.5.0_28"
1716 2011-03-25 16:11:14 <alias420> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_28-b04-382-9M3326)
1717 2011-03-25 16:11:14 <alias420> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_28-157, mixed mode, sharing)
1718 2011-03-25 16:11:21 <alias420> probably
1719 2011-03-25 16:11:22 <Diablo-D3> hrm, 1.5 should work
1720 2011-03-25 16:11:27 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
1721 2011-03-25 16:11:33 <alias420> oh well
1722 2011-03-25 16:11:35 <Diablo-D3> either way, you cant mine on leopard, you need snow leopard
1723 2011-03-25 16:11:40 <alias420> I'm not going to get much out of this thing anyways
1724 2011-03-25 16:14:06 <genjix> http://nimk.nl/nl/pixxxel-on-bitcoin-digital-cash
1725 2011-03-25 16:14:08 <genjix> nice
1726 2011-03-25 16:14:42 <luke-jr> [11:51:36] <luke-jr> genjix: "&OK" "&Apply" "Settings" "Use internal core" "URI:" "American" "English" "Esperanto" "Language" "Assume" "Prefer" "Force" "Decimal" "Tonal" "Number system:" "Hide preferred unit name"
1727 2011-03-25 16:14:48 <genjix> sgornick: want to add http://nimk.nl/nl/pixxxel-on-bitcoin-digital-cash (4th) and http://www.epcaconference.com/index.php/2011/2011/news/amir_taaki_bitcoin_org_peer_to_peer_currencies_finally_there (6th) to the list?
1728 2011-03-25 16:15:03 <genjix> luke-jr: hey missed that. OK.
1729 2011-03-25 16:15:28 <genjix> "&OK" = "&Jes"
1730 2011-03-25 16:15:43 <genjix> "&Apliki" = apply
1731 2011-03-25 16:15:46 <alias420> does anyone know if there are some already available pool management projects?
1732 2011-03-25 16:15:49 Lartza has quit (Quit: Lähdössä)
1733 2011-03-25 16:15:56 <jgarzik> pool management projects?
1734 2011-03-25 16:16:00 <alias420> stuff for managing users and stats
1735 2011-03-25 16:16:12 <genjix> "Uzu internilo" = user internal core
1736 2011-03-25 16:16:19 <alias420> like http://bitcoinpool.com has cool stats
1737 2011-03-25 16:16:28 <alias420> has user management
1738 2011-03-25 16:16:40 <genjix> "Ligilo:" = URI (means link but i think they're the same)
1739 2011-03-25 16:16:42 <alias420> I'm wondering if there are any open source projects to get started
1740 2011-03-25 16:16:54 <genjix> Usona = american
1741 2011-03-25 16:17:08 <genjix> Lingvo = language
1742 2011-03-25 16:17:10 <luke-jr> "Settings"
1743 2011-03-25 16:17:31 <BlueMatt> ok gave up on ru, pt, and it translations and used google translate (it should be good enough)...now ready to get full code examinations and merge of UPnP
1744 2011-03-25 16:17:38 <genjix> Prefereco = settings
1745 2011-03-25 16:17:41 <alias420> or is each pool using it's own internal source code to manage the pool
1746 2011-03-25 16:17:52 <alias420> at the least the web front end to the pool
1747 2011-03-25 16:18:00 <genjix> BlueMatt: nobody prefixes their name to free code (or at least not in several languages)
1748 2011-03-25 16:18:03 <luke-jr> genjix: English
1749 2011-03-25 16:18:03 <genjix> thats just odd... :p
1750 2011-03-25 16:18:09 <genjix> Angla = english
1751 2011-03-25 16:18:14 <genjix> umm...
1752 2011-03-25 16:18:18 <alias420> maybe that is a better way to describe the project I'm thinking of a pool web front end
1753 2011-03-25 16:18:27 <BlueMatt> genjix: what?
1754 2011-03-25 16:18:31 <genjix> what does force mean?
1755 2011-03-25 16:18:33 <luke-jr> genjix: Esperanto?
1756 2011-03-25 16:18:37 <genjix> Esperanto
1757 2011-03-25 16:18:43 <genjix> What context is force used in?
1758 2011-03-25 16:18:44 <alias420> Esperanto ftw!!
1759 2011-03-25 16:18:53 <alias420> Latin ftw!!!
1760 2011-03-25 16:18:56 <luke-jr> genjix: options are Assume OR Prefer OR Force
1761 2011-03-25 16:19:00 <luke-jr> genjix: for number system
1762 2011-03-25 16:19:02 <genjix> aha
1763 2011-03-25 16:19:11 <BlueMatt> genjix: on gnome System->About GNOME...names galore
1764 2011-03-25 16:19:35 <luke-jr> eg, Force Decimal (even if it's TBC)
1765 2011-03-25 16:19:40 <BlueMatt> genjix: and the license requires it (or naming the project)
1766 2011-03-25 16:19:47 <genjix> Nombra sistemo
1767 2011-03-25 16:19:52 <genjix> Nombrosistemo
1768 2011-03-25 16:19:57 <genjix> use the 2nd
1769 2011-03-25 16:20:21 <genjix> "Hide  preferred unit name" "Decimal" "Force"
1770 2011-03-25 16:20:31 <genjix> "Tonal"
1771 2011-03-25 16:20:48 <genjix> Decimal = Dekuma
1772 2011-03-25 16:20:58 <alias420> DecmalForce Tonal
1773 2011-03-25 16:21:01 <genjix> is it correct to call Tonal of 16?
1774 2011-03-25 16:21:05 <alias420> not a bad band name
1775 2011-03-25 16:21:22 <luke-jr> genjix: no
1776 2011-03-25 16:21:23 <genjix> Dekuma = characterised by 10
1777 2011-03-25 16:21:41 <luke-jr> Tonal is of 10 ;)
1778 2011-03-25 16:21:48 <luke-jr> (ton)
1779 2011-03-25 16:21:50 <genjix> i can say characterised by a tone but that'd be incorrect
1780 2011-03-25 16:21:50 <alias420> 11
1781 2011-03-25 16:22:08 <luke-jr> can you say, characterized by 0x10?
1782 2011-03-25 16:22:19 <luke-jr> IIRC Lojban at least has a hexadecimal number support
1783 2011-03-25 16:22:35 <luke-jr> that is, you can speak numbers in base 8*2
1784 2011-03-25 16:22:44 <genjix> For force, lets use 'always' = Ĉiam
1785 2011-03-25 16:23:09 <luke-jr> genjix: how about "of Ton"?
1786 2011-03-25 16:23:15 <CIA-96> bitcoin: mtve <mtve1927@gmail.com> * r370dfa8e33e3 bitcoin-pl/ (README data.pm): chain download reworked
1787 2011-03-25 16:23:16 <CIA-96> bitcoin: mtve <mtve1927@gmail.com> * r45b4e766fc61 bitcoin-pl/ (README data.pm net.pm test/data web.pm): fix
1788 2011-03-25 16:23:18 <CIA-96> bitcoin: mtve <mtve1927@gmail.com> * rdef77f868688 bitcoin-pl/ (data.pm event.pm main.pm): almost ok
1789 2011-03-25 16:23:21 <luke-jr> is there a way to Esperanto-ize like that?
1790 2011-03-25 16:23:22 <CIA-96> bitcoin: mtve <mtve1927@gmail.com> * r5ea4bca646ba bitcoin-pl/ (data.pm main.pm net.pm): chain download refactored
1791 2011-03-25 16:23:25 <CIA-96> bitcoin: mtve <mtve1927@gmail.com> * r2a2065773f33 bitcoin-pl/ (data.pm main.pm net.pm): broken
1792 2011-03-25 16:23:45 Zarutian has joined
1793 2011-03-25 16:23:51 <BlueMatt> how many projects does CIA-96 follow?
1794 2011-03-25 16:24:03 <genjix> Kaŝi preferatan unitnomon = Hide  preferred unit name
1795 2011-03-25 16:24:16 <genjix> Tonuma
1796 2011-03-25 16:24:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: bitcoind, BitcoinJ, spesmilo, bitcoin-pl, bitcoin-alt, at least
1797 2011-03-25 16:24:25 <genjix> characterised by the 'Ton'
1798 2011-03-25 16:24:25 <BlueMatt> who runs it?
1799 2011-03-25 16:24:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: CIA.vc is a public service
1800 2011-03-25 16:24:39 <genjix> BlueMatt: i like it. if you dont then hit /ignore
1801 2011-03-25 16:24:48 <genjix> i can see which projects are active.
1802 2011-03-25 16:24:50 <luke-jr> genjix: Assume/Prefer?
1803 2011-03-25 16:24:52 <BlueMatt> I like it too, was just wondering
1804 2011-03-25 16:25:02 <genjix> kk :p some people were complaining
1805 2011-03-25 16:25:02 <luke-jr> genjix: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w?o=age
1806 2011-03-25 16:25:23 <genjix> oh sick
1807 2011-03-25 16:25:24 <luke-jr> has everything, even when CIA isn't enabled :p
1808 2011-03-25 16:25:25 <genjix> nice work
1809 2011-03-25 16:25:37 <genjix> amazing
1810 2011-03-25 16:25:44 <genjix> i didnt know there was so much stuff
1811 2011-03-25 16:25:55 <luke-jr> there's like 3 node.js implementations XD
1812 2011-03-25 16:26:45 <luke-jr> genjix: "Assume" "Prefer" "Generated" "Moved"
1813 2011-03-25 16:27:08 <genjix> hold on a sec :p
1814 2011-03-25 16:27:34 <phantomcircuit> lulz
1815 2011-03-25 16:27:44 <phantomcircuit> i got my sqlalchemy version working
1816 2011-03-25 16:27:52 <phantomcircuit> too bad it's slow as fuck
1817 2011-03-25 16:28:07 <luke-jr> LOL
1818 2011-03-25 16:28:22 <phantomcircuit> seriously im getting 3 commits/second
1819 2011-03-25 16:28:27 <phantomcircuit> THREE
1820 2011-03-25 16:28:27 <genjix> add me to committers on btfeature?
1821 2011-03-25 16:28:31 <genjix> i changed my mind
1822 2011-03-25 16:29:07 <luke-jr> …done
1823 2011-03-25 16:29:22 <BlueMatt> what is btfeature?
1824 2011-03-25 16:29:22 <luke-jr> I need to clean up all the clones on Gitorious now that I setup BitGit
1825 2011-03-25 16:29:33 <luke-jr> just have the projects that actually use it
1826 2011-03-25 16:30:28 <genjix> Kredi Preferi Generita Movita
1827 2011-03-25 16:30:32 <genjix> (in order)
1828 2011-03-25 16:30:34 <Sargun_Screen> How many PCIe x8 slots can you have a on a single system?
1829 2011-03-25 16:31:00 <genjix> luke-jr: so if i make bitcoin-genjix , do you add that?
1830 2011-03-25 16:31:06 <genjix> or how does this work
1831 2011-03-25 16:31:19 <genjix> cos i want to easily make my own repos quickly
1832 2011-03-25 16:31:27 <luke-jr> genjix: you mean on Gitorious?
1833 2011-03-25 16:31:35 <genjix> BlueMatt: it's that site from earlier ( http://bitcoin.cz.cc )
1834 2011-03-25 16:31:41 <genjix> yep.
1835 2011-03-25 16:31:43 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind click "Clone repository"
1836 2011-03-25 16:31:47 <BlueMatt> oh, god why cant people stick with one name
1837 2011-03-25 16:31:49 <ArtForz> Sargun_Screen: prety much infinite
1838 2011-03-25 16:31:59 <luke-jr> and then tell me so I can update http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/genjix.git
1839 2011-03-25 16:32:01 <genjix> luke-jr: no, i mean for repos
1840 2011-03-25 16:32:09 <luke-jr> ?
1841 2011-03-25 16:32:10 doood has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1842 2011-03-25 16:32:23 <genjix> i make one project called bitcoin-genjix
1843 2011-03-25 16:32:31 <genjix> and then put all my repos under that, right?
1844 2011-03-25 16:32:36 <luke-jr> oh
1845 2011-03-25 16:32:50 AmpEater has joined
1846 2011-03-25 16:33:05 <genjix> i want a) everything in one place b) freedom to create/delete whatever :p
1847 2011-03-25 16:33:22 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/projects/new
1848 2011-03-25 16:33:24 <genjix> don't want to fight over having to open a repo.
1849 2011-03-25 16:33:36 <genjix> yep, but does that integrate with you well?
1850 2011-03-25 16:33:51 <genjix> because you have that list.
1851 2011-03-25 16:33:56 <luke-jr> I'd prefer we stick with a single umbrella bitcoin project, but whatever
1852 2011-03-25 16:33:59 <luke-jr> BitGit works with anything
1853 2011-03-25 16:34:07 <luke-jr> most of those projects mirrored are on GitHub
1854 2011-03-25 16:34:18 <genjix> well i want my own bitcoin repo (not a clone)
1855 2011-03-25 16:34:29 <genjix> because i have local changes from earlier branches .etc
1856 2011-03-25 16:34:32 <luke-jr> project or repo? repos *are* clones
1857 2011-03-25 16:34:32 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1858 2011-03-25 16:34:49 <luke-jr> you can push --force to downgrade a clone
1859 2011-03-25 16:35:00 bt2100 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1860 2011-03-25 16:35:03 <genjix> i might just setup my own git server
1861 2011-03-25 16:35:37 <luke-jr> if there's a need, the codebase I used for BitGit does support push-repositories
1862 2011-03-25 16:35:40 <luke-jr> (not just mirrors)
1863 2011-03-25 16:35:45 <luke-jr> I'd need to build a VPS for it tho
1864 2011-03-25 16:36:15 <genjix> you can use my one if you want
1865 2011-03-25 16:36:25 <luke-jr> I mean a dedicated VPS
1866 2011-03-25 16:36:27 <luke-jr> for only BitGit
1867 2011-03-25 16:36:27 <genjix> yeah
1868 2011-03-25 16:36:41 <genjix> use bitcoin.cz.cc ... ill give you the login
1869 2011-03-25 16:36:44 molecular has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1870 2011-03-25 16:36:52 <luke-jr> …
1871 2011-03-25 16:36:55 molecular has joined
1872 2011-03-25 16:36:57 <luke-jr> that's hosting btfeature and stuff
1873 2011-03-25 16:37:07 <genjix> ok
1874 2011-03-25 16:37:27 <luke-jr> genjix: btw, what's with fr_FR.ts?\
1875 2011-03-25 16:37:30 <luke-jr> it seems to be unused
1876 2011-03-25 16:37:34 <genjix> it is.
1877 2011-03-25 16:37:37 <luke-jr> why? :P
1878 2011-03-25 16:38:22 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r6207d458b293 spesmilo/i18n/eo_EO.ts: updates to Esperanto translation from genjix
1879 2011-03-25 16:38:23 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r3dc33eeea82a spesmilo/ (i18n/en_GB.ts i18n/eo_EO.ts kalam.pro): pylupdate4 kalam.pro
1880 2011-03-25 16:38:24 <genjix> do you know le french?
1881 2011-03-25 16:38:30 <luke-jr> no
1882 2011-03-25 16:38:55 <genjix> ic
1883 2011-03-25 16:41:12 <kupo> hallo
1884 2011-03-25 16:41:24 <kupo> I'm really impressed by how much traction bitcoin is getting lately
1885 2011-03-25 16:41:49 <kupo> should I bother joining a pool?
1886 2011-03-25 16:41:50 Xunie has joined
1887 2011-03-25 16:41:55 <kupo> hey Xunie
1888 2011-03-25 16:42:08 <Xunie> Arr matey?
1889 2011-03-25 16:42:21 <kupo> Xunie: should I bother joining a pool?
1890 2011-03-25 16:42:44 <EvanR-work> yes
1891 2011-03-25 16:42:49 <kupo> EvanR-work: which?
1892 2011-03-25 16:43:31 <Xunie> kupo, should I bother getting Pizza?
1893 2011-03-25 16:43:38 <subpar> yes
1894 2011-03-25 16:43:46 <Xunie> No, no one can answer that for me.
1895 2011-03-25 16:43:48 rli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1896 2011-03-25 16:44:07 <subpar> yes, I can answer, you can choose not to listen
1897 2011-03-25 16:44:13 <subpar> ;-)
1898 2011-03-25 16:44:23 <subpar> err read - as it were
1899 2011-03-25 16:45:49 chaord has left ()
1900 2011-03-25 16:46:03 <kupo> Xunie: depends
1901 2011-03-25 16:46:12 <kupo> Xunie: what timezone are you in?
1902 2011-03-25 16:48:52 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1903 2011-03-25 16:48:57 <phantomcircuit> there isn't a mysql module for python3
1904 2011-03-25 16:48:59 <phantomcircuit> >.>
1905 2011-03-25 16:50:51 Hogofwar has joined
1906 2011-03-25 16:51:28 jefvel has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1907 2011-03-25 16:52:04 antivigilante has joined
1908 2011-03-25 16:52:41 jefvel has joined
1909 2011-03-25 16:53:47 <Xunie> kupo, CEST
1910 2011-03-25 16:54:02 <Xunie> phantomcircuit, yeah there is, code it. :P
1911 2011-03-25 16:54:15 <phantomcircuit> Xunie, what?
1912 2011-03-25 16:54:19 <Hogofwar> Is TD here?
1913 2011-03-25 16:54:25 <Xunie> the mysql python3 module.
1914 2011-03-25 16:54:30 Joozero has joined
1915 2011-03-25 16:54:32 <phantomcircuit> there isn't one
1916 2011-03-25 16:54:36 <phantomcircuit> there is oursql
1917 2011-03-25 16:54:37 <Xunie> So code it! :P
1918 2011-03-25 16:54:38 <Hogofwar> as in active atm
1919 2011-03-25 16:54:39 lfm has joined
1920 2011-03-25 16:54:40 <phantomcircuit> but that appears abandoned
1921 2011-03-25 16:54:41 <Joozero> hi
1922 2011-03-25 16:54:55 <Joozero> is there magicaltux?
1923 2011-03-25 16:56:07 dwdollar has joined
1924 2011-03-25 16:56:13 <genjix> phantomcircuit: i was wondering this too -_- and just ended up using php
1925 2011-03-25 16:56:32 <phantomcircuit> https://answers.launchpad.net/oursql/+question/140526
1926 2011-03-25 16:56:34 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1927 2011-03-25 16:56:44 <phantomcircuit> This question was expired because it remained in the 'Open' state without activity for the last 15 days.
1928 2011-03-25 16:56:47 <phantomcircuit> >.>
1929 2011-03-25 16:56:48 <phantomcircuit> <.<
1930 2011-03-25 16:57:28 <Joozero> any news about more languages on wiki?
1931 2011-03-25 16:57:33 Hogofwar has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1932 2011-03-25 16:57:49 <kupo> Xunie: so what time does it make it there
1933 2011-03-25 16:58:20 <Xunie> UTC+2
1934 2011-03-25 16:58:37 <Xunie> Durin the winter, CET is used. Which is UTC+1
1935 2011-03-25 16:58:38 subpar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1936 2011-03-25 16:59:01 <Xunie> Right now it's 17:57:46
1937 2011-03-25 16:59:57 <phantomcircuit> holy crap
1938 2011-03-25 17:00:03 <phantomcircuit> there is literally no mysql module for python3
1939 2011-03-25 17:00:07 <phantomcircuit> not a single one
1940 2011-03-25 17:01:28 <Sargun_Screen> haha
1941 2011-03-25 17:01:30 <Sargun_Screen> lovely.
1942 2011-03-25 17:02:02 glassresistor has joined
1943 2011-03-25 17:03:02 subpar has joined
1944 2011-03-25 17:03:02 subpar has quit (Changing host)
1945 2011-03-25 17:03:02 subpar has joined
1946 2011-03-25 17:04:09 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1947 2011-03-25 17:04:09 JackRabiit has joined
1948 2011-03-25 17:04:38 <JackRabiit> Hello everyone!, I am lazy and would like to know what pools offer Share Based Payouts
1949 2011-03-25 17:05:02 <JackRabiit> I will accept a LMGTFY link.
1950 2011-03-25 17:05:06 <JackRabiit> El Oh El
1951 2011-03-25 17:05:36 <JackRabiit> Who ever helps gets .10BTC lawl
1952 2011-03-25 17:05:54 <JackRabiit> First come first serve
1953 2011-03-25 17:06:07 <JackRabiit> Who ever's got the right answer and a recieve address wins
1954 2011-03-25 17:06:18 <lfm> hi, i dont use pools
1955 2011-03-25 17:06:40 <JackRabiit> Yeah......... i only got 240Mhashs under my hood so i kinda have to use 'em
1956 2011-03-25 17:07:05 <lfm> naw, you dont have to. but feel free
1957 2011-03-25 17:07:16 <JackRabiit> Agreed
1958 2011-03-25 17:07:32 kermit has joined
1959 2011-03-25 17:11:53 TheKid has joined
1960 2011-03-25 17:11:53 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
1961 2011-03-25 17:11:53 TheKid has joined
1962 2011-03-25 17:12:49 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, my deepbit.net offers share based payout.
1963 2011-03-25 17:13:28 <JackRabiit> Hi tycho, i am currently mining under proportional in your pool, Thankyou for speaking
1964 2011-03-25 17:13:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: msgfmt
1965 2011-03-25 17:13:45 <JackRabiit> I would like to apologise for my improper language
1966 2011-03-25 17:14:14 <JackRabiit> there is: Proportional. PayperShare and ______________
1967 2011-03-25 17:14:22 <JackRabiit> Your pool has the first two
1968 2011-03-25 17:14:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: thanks
1969 2011-03-25 17:14:50 <JackRabiit> Share based reward?
1970 2011-03-25 17:15:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: any special flags used for bitcoin?
1971 2011-03-25 17:15:17 newbie026 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1972 2011-03-25 17:15:17 <jgarzik> JackRabiit: pay-per-share, equal proportion and score-based
1973 2011-03-25 17:15:32 <JackRabiit> Thats it! Score
1974 2011-03-25 17:15:33 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Not AFAIK.  I used "msgfmt -c -o outfile infile"
1975 2011-03-25 17:15:33 ccc_ has joined
1976 2011-03-25 17:15:42 <JackRabiit> Jgarzik wins
1977 2011-03-25 17:16:09 <JackRabiit> Thanks
1978 2011-03-25 17:16:30 ccc_ has left ()
1979 2011-03-25 17:16:43 <jgarzik> Bitcoin donations: 17NdbrSGoUotzeGCcMMCqnFkEvLymoou9j
1980 2011-03-25 17:16:45 <jgarzik> :)
1981 2011-03-25 17:16:53 <JackRabiit> :)
1982 2011-03-25 17:17:09 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: should there be a couple warnings?
1983 2011-03-25 17:17:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I did not get any
1984 2011-03-25 17:17:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: maybe the .po you're compiling is not up-to-date with the latest strings
1985 2011-03-25 17:17:50 <sneak> hi guys
1986 2011-03-25 17:17:55 sabalaba has joined
1987 2011-03-25 17:18:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hm, no pulled today, oh wait...one sec
1988 2011-03-25 17:18:21 <JackRabiit> Are we allowed to post NSFW links if we blatently state that thier NSFW?
1989 2011-03-25 17:18:26 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: how does one regenerate the .po?
1990 2011-03-25 17:19:11 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: a good question
1991 2011-03-25 17:19:16 <JackRabiit> What pools offer Score based payouts?
1992 2011-03-25 17:19:25 <JackRabiit> bitpenny?
1993 2011-03-25 17:19:28 <JackRabiit> bitcoind?
1994 2011-03-25 17:19:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hmmm, I take that back I only get errors in the de one
1995 2011-03-25 17:20:08 <jgarzik> JackRabiit: slush, definitely
1996 2011-03-25 17:20:17 <jgarzik> JackRabiit: bitcoind is not a pool, that's a piece of software
1997 2011-03-25 17:21:27 dmorg has joined
1998 2011-03-25 17:22:00 Simon14 has joined
1999 2011-03-25 17:22:11 dmorg has quit (Client Quit)
2000 2011-03-25 17:22:58 <Diablo-D3> does ANYONE get email from the forum?
2001 2011-03-25 17:23:03 <Diablo-D3> [12:22:37] <BlueMatt> how many projects does CIA-96 follow?
2002 2011-03-25 17:23:07 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: like over 10k
2003 2011-03-25 17:23:37 <genjix> jgarzik: CDataStream is the correct way to stream things on and off disk, right?
2004 2011-03-25 17:23:58 <genjix> instead of a character array
2005 2011-03-25 17:24:03 <nanotube> JackRabiit: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining
2006 2011-03-25 17:24:06 <nanotube> for your reference
2007 2011-03-25 17:24:07 <Simon14> I have  a question about coin generation. Does each client try and find the coin from scratch or is the "hashspace" distributed so each client gets some range of hashes to try?
2008 2011-03-25 17:24:24 <lfm> JackRabiit: bitcoind is used if you are not in a pool (solo)
2009 2011-03-25 17:24:25 <genjix> Simon14: first one.
2010 2011-03-25 17:24:34 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: from scratch, but the chances of more than one client looking at the same combination is rare
2011 2011-03-25 17:24:45 <nanotube> each client has its own hash space to try, essentially.
2012 2011-03-25 17:24:57 <genjix> except in a mining pool :p
2013 2011-03-25 17:24:58 <jgarzik> genjix: not necessarily; that is the class for serializing/de-serializing blocks/txs/etc.
2014 2011-03-25 17:25:04 <lfm> Simon14: everyone is trying to find different hashes of different blocks
2015 2011-03-25 17:25:06 <genjix> i thought so.
2016 2011-03-25 17:25:09 octarine has joined
2017 2011-03-25 17:25:15 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: tx list, current time in seconds, and a unique 32 bit number is among the random things that are tested
2018 2011-03-25 17:25:19 <jgarzik> genjix: if you just have regular data, don't use it, use straight file ops
2019 2011-03-25 17:25:32 <genjix> no, i want to insert code between loading/save the wallet
2020 2011-03-25 17:25:57 Joozero has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021 2011-03-25 17:25:58 <genjix> but it seems there's no one point
2022 2011-03-25 17:26:13 <genjix> (or i cannot find it yet :p)
2023 2011-03-25 17:26:16 <Simon14> Oh ok, I wasn't sure if everyone had the same starting point which would mean only the person with the fastest cruncher would get coins
2024 2011-03-25 17:26:19 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: so, its sufficiently random to prevent the need of distributed communication
2025 2011-03-25 17:26:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: its complaining about missing Project-Id-Version and Language-Team, I just added the blank version from the other files
2026 2011-03-25 17:26:38 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: people with the fastest hardware has the most chances of getting coins
2027 2011-03-25 17:26:44 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: but it also costs more to compete at that level
2028 2011-03-25 17:26:47 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I meant how many does the bot follow and announce on this channel
2029 2011-03-25 17:26:54 <lfm> Simon14: every hash attempt is unique, you make thousands of hash attempts per sec on the slowest of systems
2030 2011-03-25 17:27:09 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: at least three, diablominer, gavin's client, and another one
2031 2011-03-25 17:27:47 <Diablo-D3> yes, every hash attempt is unique, but theres also very little chance of repeated attempts
2032 2011-03-25 17:27:50 <Simon14> Well thats understandable because they crunch more. I meant that if everyone had the same starting point of a range of hashes to try, the one with the fastest computer would always win (which was my worry). I understand that it isn't
2033 2011-03-25 17:27:57 <JackRabiit> Hmmmmmmm seems i dont know what im doing LOL, i've been in Slush's pool for a while now and just notcied that i have "none" under my rewards statistics for over 9hrs total of hash workings.....seems like i hate score ever since he put this in i've been suffering
2034 2011-03-25 17:28:22 <JackRabiit> ima 12/7 miner so i keep loosing my shares
2035 2011-03-25 17:28:26 <JackRabiit> ffs
2036 2011-03-25 17:28:32 <JackRabiit> time to get off score
2037 2011-03-25 17:28:37 <lfm> Simon14: you might find a winning hash on your first attempt within seconds of starting, even on a slow machine
2038 2011-03-25 17:28:41 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: the "starting point" is the same anyhow, the nonce is in a 32 bit range
2039 2011-03-25 17:28:41 <JackRabiit> backinto deepbit i go!
2040 2011-03-25 17:29:03 <genjix> kiba: poke
2041 2011-03-25 17:29:14 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: or approximately 4.2 billion
2042 2011-03-25 17:29:19 <Simon14> ok, I think I understand it enough
2043 2011-03-25 17:29:24 <Simon14> right
2044 2011-03-25 17:29:29 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r41 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Block.java: Don't serialize the block hash, recalculate on demand using getHash()
2045 2011-03-25 17:29:29 <genjix> brb
2046 2011-03-25 17:29:39 satamusic has joined
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2048 2011-03-25 17:29:39 satamusic has joined
2049 2011-03-25 17:29:40 <kiba> genjix: what?
2050 2011-03-25 17:29:46 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: and obviously the nonce doesnt reset at the start of a new block, or set of attempts, or anything
2051 2011-03-25 17:29:54 <Diablo-D3> miners just let that keep spinning around freely
2052 2011-03-25 17:29:57 TD has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2053 2011-03-25 17:30:02 <Simon14> ok
2054 2011-03-25 17:30:17 <Diablo-D3> (although it depends on the miner... mine DOES reset, but it resets in a way that doesnt effect chances)
2055 2011-03-25 17:30:40 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: oh, and I forgot, theres TWO nonces.
2056 2011-03-25 17:30:52 <Diablo-D3> one the miner software itself does, and one bitcoin does during getwork
2057 2011-03-25 17:30:55 <gasteve> tcatm: I have a suggestion for bitcoincharts ...take the PPUSD mtgox trade data, but use it to plot a chart in terms of gold oz (based on a daily price quote for gold)
2058 2011-03-25 17:31:09 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: so the search space is really 2^64 per second.
2059 2011-03-25 17:31:14 <Simon14> My confusion probably comes from a distributed computing project where the keyspace is uniquely handed out to clients
2060 2011-03-25 17:31:26 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: all the computational power on earth isnt powerful enough to tackle that well
2061 2011-03-25 17:31:27 <tcatm> gasteve: it's on my todo and I still haven't found time to write the code...
2062 2011-03-25 17:31:46 RazielZ has joined
2063 2011-03-25 17:31:47 <lfm> Simon14: ya out search space is actually 2^256
2064 2011-03-25 17:32:06 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: well, those projects are trying to make sure every single combination is tried
2065 2011-03-25 17:32:07 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,calc 3000
2066 2011-03-25 17:32:07 JackRabiit has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2067 2011-03-25 17:32:08 <Simon14> Just gets bigger and bigger doesn't it :)
2068 2011-03-25 17:32:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 3 years, 6 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 40 minutes, and 29 seconds
2069 2011-03-25 17:32:11 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: we have new problems at least every second
2070 2011-03-25 17:32:12 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,calc 3000000
2071 2011-03-25 17:32:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 day, 3 hours, 25 minutes, and 54 seconds
2072 2011-03-25 17:32:16 <Diablo-D3> depending on how you define "new problem"
2073 2011-03-25 17:32:24 <Diablo-D3> btw, its not 2^256
2074 2011-03-25 17:32:27 <Diablo-D3> one of those fields is time
2075 2011-03-25 17:32:35 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 3000000
2076 2011-03-25 17:32:36 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 43.7450506123 BTC per day and 1.82271044218 BTC per hour.
2077 2011-03-25 17:32:37 <Diablo-D3> so only a few bits of that is increasing every so often
2078 2011-03-25 17:32:39 <lfm> Simon14: so everyone can start at a random place and no one has any real chance of colliding or duplicating effort
2079 2011-03-25 17:32:55 <Diablo-D3> the numbers that change between seconds represent a 2^64 space
2080 2011-03-25 17:33:15 <lfm> Diablo-D3:  and the merkle tree is 2^265
2081 2011-03-25 17:33:25 <lfm> 256
2082 2011-03-25 17:33:25 <Diablo-D3> lfm: yeah, but thats a different issue
2083 2011-03-25 17:33:43 <lfm> Diablo-D3: every time a txn gets added the merkle tree changes
2084 2011-03-25 17:33:48 <Diablo-D3> either way, the chances of any two miners trying the same hash is basically non-existenent
2085 2011-03-25 17:33:50 <Simon14> Ok, that makes sense. Would it be possible to search for coins differently?
2086 2011-03-25 17:33:56 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: no
2087 2011-03-25 17:34:05 <Diablo-D3> the search for coins is only hashing the block header
2088 2011-03-25 17:34:14 <lfm> simkwhat do you mean differently?
2089 2011-03-25 17:34:22 <Diablo-D3> the block headers HAVE to be valid for obvious reasons
2090 2011-03-25 17:34:32 <Simon14> right
2091 2011-03-25 17:34:44 <Diablo-D3> so everytime we hash, we're looking at a brand new problem
2092 2011-03-25 17:34:56 <Diablo-D3> well, every 5 seconds or so (depending on what your miner is doing)
2093 2011-03-25 17:35:17 <Diablo-D3> its not like, say, distributed net
2094 2011-03-25 17:35:33 <Diablo-D3> where they're trying to brute force an unchanging RC5, or trying to look for optimum golumb rulers
2095 2011-03-25 17:35:43 <Diablo-D3> THERE you need to make sure no one repeats search space
2096 2011-03-25 17:35:48 <Diablo-D3> but our search space is ever changing
2097 2011-03-25 17:35:55 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing worth synchronizing
2098 2011-03-25 17:36:04 Bosma has joined
2099 2011-03-25 17:36:36 <Sargun_Screen> ;;bc,gen 6000000
2100 2011-03-25 17:36:37 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 6000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 87.4901012246 BTC per day and 3.64542088436 BTC per hour.
2101 2011-03-25 17:36:57 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: the header changes every time someone sends a new tx out, the time per second, and the first nonce which currently clients increment once per set of attempts
2102 2011-03-25 17:37:20 <Diablo-D3> Simon14: theres a second nonce (which is called just nonce) which is incremented per hash (or thousands or millions of times per second)
2103 2011-03-25 17:37:27 <Sargun_Screen> What's the total H/s on the bitcoin network?
2104 2011-03-25 17:37:30 <lfm> it increments EVERY attempt actually
2105 2011-03-25 17:37:37 <Diablo-D3> lfm: see above
2106 2011-03-25 17:37:40 <Diablo-D3> theres two nonces
2107 2011-03-25 17:37:45 <Diablo-D3> the SECOND one is called nonce
2108 2011-03-25 17:37:56 <Diablo-D3> its slightly confusing to noobs sometimes
2109 2011-03-25 17:38:05 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki block hashing algorithm
2110 2011-03-25 17:38:06 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm | Jan 27, 2011 ... Block hashing algorithm. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search. When generating, you constantly hash the block header. The block is also ...
2111 2011-03-25 17:38:08 <lfm> Sargun_Screen: http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
2112 2011-03-25 17:38:09 <Diablo-D3> the first one is part of the merkle root
2113 2011-03-25 17:38:43 <Diablo-D3> and I think we're up past 1 thash/sec now
2114 2011-03-25 17:38:55 <lfm> Diablo-D3: so the first one is called extra-nonce and the second one is called nonce?
2115 2011-03-25 17:39:04 <Diablo-D3> lfm: I think so
2116 2011-03-25 17:39:16 <Diablo-D3> at least, every miner Ive seen calls the second one nonce
2117 2011-03-25 17:39:42 <lfm> it seems I would number them different
2118 2011-03-25 17:40:03 <Diablo-D3> the first one is part of the merkle root stuff
2119 2011-03-25 17:40:33 <lfm> I would tend to say the first one is in the block header
2120 2011-03-25 17:40:43 <Diablo-D3> well, the second one is in the block header too
2121 2011-03-25 17:40:49 <Diablo-D3> its the last 4 bytes of the 80 byte header
2122 2011-03-25 17:40:51 <lfm> the second is in the coin gen txn
2123 2011-03-25 17:41:13 <Diablo-D3> lfm: yes, which is part of the merkleroot]
2124 2011-03-25 17:41:17 <Diablo-D3> which is earlier in the header
2125 2011-03-25 17:41:36 <Diablo-D3> everytime you getwork, that nonce increments
2126 2011-03-25 17:42:10 <lfm> the coin gen txn is not in the block header. its hash is included in the merkle tree but I dont think its correct to say the gen txn is in the block header
2127 2011-03-25 17:42:26 <Diablo-D3> lfm: the merkleroot of that tx list IS in the block header
2128 2011-03-25 17:43:22 <lfm> ya, the merkle root is on;ly a hash of the txns, that means those txn influence it but they arnt really IN it
2129 2011-03-25 17:43:30 <Diablo-D3> lfm: well yes
2130 2011-03-25 17:43:34 <Diablo-D3> but we're talking about possible attempts
2131 2011-03-25 17:43:46 <Diablo-D3> so, per second, theres 2^64 possible attempts
2132 2011-03-25 17:43:56 <lfm> per user
2133 2011-03-25 17:44:01 <Diablo-D3> per user.
2134 2011-03-25 17:44:27 <lfm> each miner is working on a different 2^64 per sec
2135 2011-03-25 17:44:29 <Diablo-D3> actually, per bitcoind instance
2136 2011-03-25 17:44:36 <genjix> anyone know how can i do greedy cib in vim?
2137 2011-03-25 17:44:48 <Diablo-D3> cib?
2138 2011-03-25 17:45:07 <Diablo-D3> oh uh clear inner brance
2139 2011-03-25 17:45:50 <Diablo-D3> genjix: its already greedy imo
2140 2011-03-25 17:46:37 <Diablo-D3> genjix: it nukes everything between the outermost () you're in
2141 2011-03-25 17:46:51 <lfm> btw the bitcoin net is stil slightly less than 1e12 hash/sec
2142 2011-03-25 17:46:53 <Diablo-D3> so (((((((((lisp yay)))))))))) ends up with ()
2143 2011-03-25 17:47:03 <Diablo-D3> lfm: yeah but I thought we hit above 1 thash/sec
2144 2011-03-25 17:47:09 <genjix> greedy as in (  sdskds (sdsjkdsk ( dsdsjk [ ] ) sds))
2145 2011-03-25 17:47:34 <genjix> not my vim
2146 2011-03-25 17:47:38 <Diablo-D3> genjix: if my cursor is, say, at sdskds, it should nuke EVERYTHING
2147 2011-03-25 17:47:44 <lfm> Diablo-D3: maybe for a very short time. I do daily totals
2148 2011-03-25 17:47:57 <genjix> yeah i want to know how to nuke it from [ ]
2149 2011-03-25 17:47:58 <Diablo-D3> lfm: well I remember people in here going yay \o/ about it
2150 2011-03-25 17:48:07 <Diablo-D3> genjix: yeah, which it cant
2151 2011-03-25 17:48:20 <Diablo-D3> genjix: cib doesnt accept a paramater that I know of
2152 2011-03-25 17:48:20 <genjix> >:(
2153 2011-03-25 17:48:30 <genjix> i need moar efficiency
2154 2011-03-25 17:48:54 <Diablo-D3> well, it'd be nice to give cib with negative numbers
2155 2011-03-25 17:49:02 <genjix> currently I do F(;;;cib
2156 2011-03-25 17:49:21 <genjix> ohh thats a good idea
2157 2011-03-25 17:49:22 <Diablo-D3> vim scripting: the true horror of the deep
2158 2011-03-25 17:49:29 <genjix> the numbers
2159 2011-03-25 17:49:40 <Diablo-D3> genjix: hehhhhh
2160 2011-03-25 17:49:41 <genjix> 3dabcib
2161 2011-03-25 17:49:43 * Diablo-D3 has been using vim too long
2162 2011-03-25 17:51:10 <genjix> the new vim will have collaborative editing + line wrap markers
2163 2011-03-25 17:51:17 <genjix> cant wait
2164 2011-03-25 17:51:44 <genjix> and python scripting :p
2165 2011-03-25 17:56:21 justmoon has joined
2166 2011-03-25 17:56:30 JackRabiit has joined
2167 2011-03-25 17:57:08 <Diablo-D3> dont like colab editing
2168 2011-03-25 17:57:08 <Diablo-D3> and
2169 2011-03-25 17:57:13 <Diablo-D3> this can be done in vim now, really
2170 2011-03-25 17:57:25 <Diablo-D3> external daemon + vim scripting connecting to a pipe
2171 2011-03-25 17:58:01 <genjix> or screen over ssh
2172 2011-03-25 17:58:51 <JackRabiit> http://img826.imageshack.us/i/failedblocks.png/
2173 2011-03-25 17:58:54 <JackRabiit> sorry
2174 2011-03-25 17:59:35 <JackRabiit> http://img826.imageshack.us/i/failedblocks.png/ This is caused (the None under rewards) by me turning off my miner when connected to a Score based system?
2175 2011-03-25 17:59:42 capnhook has joined
2176 2011-03-25 18:00:27 <[Tycho]> There is no failed blocks on this screenshot
2177 2011-03-25 18:00:48 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: cuz MySQL sucks
2178 2011-03-25 18:01:30 <JackRabiit> Okay.... but why am i recieving No reward?
2179 2011-03-25 18:01:51 <[Tycho]> JackRabiit, may be you weren't mining at that time.
2180 2011-03-25 18:02:08 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im so confused i just benchmarked sqlite performance and im getting way more commits/second with my bench than i am with my actual application
2181 2011-03-25 18:02:13 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im guessing it's foreign keys
2182 2011-03-25 18:02:27 <Simon14> Would you recommend joining a mining pool?
2183 2011-03-25 18:02:53 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2184 2011-03-25 18:02:56 <[Tycho]> Simon14, welcome to my mining pool @ http://deepbit.net :)
2185 2011-03-25 18:03:09 <genjix> phantomcircuit: are you using PRIMARY KEY?
2186 2011-03-25 18:03:18 <JackRabiit> OH, my bad! i didnt realise that was listing all recent blocks! i thought that was listing only the blocks that i've worked on, Thankyou Tycho
2187 2011-03-25 18:03:21 <phantomcircuit> genjix, yeah
2188 2011-03-25 18:03:23 <genjix> (mysql, sqllite person here)
2189 2011-03-25 18:03:27 capnhook has quit (Client Quit)
2190 2011-03-25 18:03:28 <JackRabiit> Oh hell yes join a pool
2191 2011-03-25 18:03:29 <genjix> k
2192 2011-03-25 18:03:37 <genjix> *not sqllite
2193 2011-03-25 18:04:08 <genjix> phantomcircuit: and JOIN instead of sub-queryies?
2194 2011-03-25 18:04:27 thnee has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2195 2011-03-25 18:04:29 <genjix> and JOIN instead of cartesian select
2196 2011-03-25 18:04:35 <JackRabiit> lemme see now.... thats...... 8/10 problems i've had solved by Tycho, and the other two Tycho wasnt on?, Someone is a Great Pool Owner
2197 2011-03-25 18:05:32 capnhook has joined
2198 2011-03-25 18:05:38 ballon has joined
2199 2011-03-25 18:05:51 <phantomcircuit> genjix, what's slow are simple select/update/insert operations
2200 2011-03-25 18:06:11 <Simon14> [Tycho]: Which CPU client is preferred?
2201 2011-03-25 18:06:19 <genjix> weird.
2202 2011-03-25 18:06:28 ballon has quit (Client Quit)
2203 2011-03-25 18:06:36 <phantomcircuit> genjix, SELECT * FROM blocks WHERE blocks.hash = ;UPDATE blocks SET height= WHERE blocks.hash=?; INSERT INTO blocks() VALUES();
2204 2011-03-25 18:06:38 <lfm> Simon14: prolly cpuminer
2205 2011-03-25 18:06:49 <genjix> phantomcircuit: in mysql there's different databases... one optimised for insert/select, and others for more complex stuff.
2206 2011-03-25 18:06:59 <phantomcircuit> genjix, ironically the complicated query to find all the heads for the block chain is fast
2207 2011-03-25 18:07:08 <phantomcircuit> genjix, oh this is for sqltie
2208 2011-03-25 18:07:14 <phantomcircuit> i cant even get mysql to work with python3
2209 2011-03-25 18:07:15 <genjix> yeah i see nothing wrong with your statements
2210 2011-03-25 18:07:16 <phantomcircuit> like
2211 2011-03-25 18:07:17 <phantomcircuit> at all
2212 2011-03-25 18:07:18 <genjix> i know.
2213 2011-03-25 18:07:39 <genjix> @ sqlite
2214 2011-03-25 18:07:56 <Diablo-D3> lolol
2215 2011-03-25 18:07:58 <Diablo-D3> mysql
2216 2011-03-25 18:07:58 <Diablo-D3> fail
2217 2011-03-25 18:08:08 <genjix> how is mysql fail? it works great :D
2218 2011-03-25 18:08:19 <phantomcircuit> oh wow
2219 2011-03-25 18:08:29 <phantomcircuit> adding a foreign key doubled the run time
2220 2011-03-25 18:08:32 <Diablo-D3> genjix: are you retarded?
2221 2011-03-25 18:08:44 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: you say that like its big news
2222 2011-03-25 18:08:45 <genjix> -_- yes i am retarded
2223 2011-03-25 18:08:46 <phantomcircuit> wait
2224 2011-03-25 18:08:48 <phantomcircuit> scratch that
2225 2011-03-25 18:08:55 <phantomcircuit> adding a second insert doubled the runtime :P
2226 2011-03-25 18:09:01 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: every additional op adds runtime
2227 2011-03-25 18:09:10 <Diablo-D3> genjix: mysql is a pile of shit
2228 2011-03-25 18:09:17 <Diablo-D3> its possibly the worst sql impl in existence
2229 2011-03-25 18:09:44 <Diablo-D3> okay so
2230 2011-03-25 18:10:01 <Diablo-D3> is there something wrong with the SMF installation for the bitcoin forums?
2231 2011-03-25 18:10:22 <genjix> have you had problems with mysql?
2232 2011-03-25 18:10:31 <genjix> it's worked great for me always.
2233 2011-03-25 18:10:33 <Diablo-D3> genjix: me? yes. this is why I use pg.
2234 2011-03-25 18:10:38 <Diablo-D3> much superior impl
2235 2011-03-25 18:10:46 <Validus> lol
2236 2011-03-25 18:10:50 <Validus> mysql is a pain in the arse
2237 2011-03-25 18:11:19 <JackRabiit> Gribble is a bot right?
2238 2011-03-25 18:11:31 <Tril> gribble is a bot
2239 2011-03-25 18:11:33 <JackRabiit> i see him placing BTC est generation amounts in the chat log
2240 2011-03-25 18:11:35 <[Tycho]> Simon14, ufasoft is fastest, but jgarzik's may support long polling.
2241 2011-03-25 18:11:50 <Diablo-D3> okay
2242 2011-03-25 18:11:52 <lfm> ;;bc,estimaate
2243 2011-03-25 18:11:52 <gribble> Error: "bc,estimaate" is not a valid command.
2244 2011-03-25 18:11:53 <Diablo-D3> can ANYONE
2245 2011-03-25 18:11:55 <Diablo-D3> on the forums
2246 2011-03-25 18:11:58 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
2247 2011-03-25 18:11:59 <gribble> 84566.95138519
2248 2011-03-25 18:12:01 <Diablo-D3> see a notify button on threads?
2249 2011-03-25 18:12:04 <Diablo-D3> anyone at all?
2250 2011-03-25 18:12:29 slush has joined
2251 2011-03-25 18:12:35 <JackRabiit> Hi slush!
2252 2011-03-25 18:12:40 <jgarzik> cpuminer's sse2_64 (req. Linux 64-bit) should be as fast as ufasoft, unless I'm mistaken.
2253 2011-03-25 18:12:42 <slush> hi
2254 2011-03-25 18:12:44 <Diablo-D3> am I blind or something?
2255 2011-03-25 18:12:47 <jgarzik> it's a port of ufasoft's code.
2256 2011-03-25 18:12:49 <phantomcircuit> http://codepad.org/JlekstO3
2257 2011-03-25 18:12:50 <phantomcircuit> rofl
2258 2011-03-25 18:12:56 <phantomcircuit> $ python3 sqlite_bench.py
2259 2011-03-25 18:12:57 <phantomcircuit> 100 12.0809910297 0.120809910297
2260 2011-03-25 18:12:59 <phantomcircuit> ridiculous
2261 2011-03-25 18:13:07 <lfm> jgarzik: 4way is still fastest on my phenom x4
2262 2011-03-25 18:13:18 <Diablo-D3> uhhhh
2263 2011-03-25 18:13:25 <JackRabiit> there has been alot of controvesy over you EL OH EL, everyone has oppionions as to weather or not you've started cheating your pool, Must suck being You right at this moment......
2264 2011-03-25 18:13:27 <jgarzik> lfm: yeah, sse2_64 is slower on AMD, much much much faster on Intel
2265 2011-03-25 18:13:29 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: why arent you doing preprared statements
2266 2011-03-25 18:13:29 <Diablo-D3> AND]
2267 2011-03-25 18:13:31 <Diablo-D3> AND
2268 2011-03-25 18:13:32 <jgarzik> (compared to 4way)
2269 2011-03-25 18:13:36 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: only 100 runs? wtf
2270 2011-03-25 18:13:43 <genjix> phantomcircuit: wow so bad
2271 2011-03-25 18:13:43 <Diablo-D3> its not a benchmark until you do a million.
2272 2011-03-25 18:13:51 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, look at the time
2273 2011-03-25 18:13:55 <phantomcircuit> a million would take all day
2274 2011-03-25 18:13:56 <JackRabiit> ;;bc,calc 241664
2275 2011-03-25 18:13:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 241664 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes, and 5 seconds
2276 2011-03-25 18:13:59 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: prepared statements, moron
2277 2011-03-25 18:14:07 <phantomcircuit> i doubt it'll help
2278 2011-03-25 18:14:12 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: and use a goddamned fucking transaction
2279 2011-03-25 18:14:20 <Diablo-D3> what is this, sql 101 or something?
2280 2011-03-25 18:14:25 <genjix> he is using transactions
2281 2011-03-25 18:14:26 <genjix> derp
2282 2011-03-25 18:14:33 <genjix> db.commit()
2283 2011-03-25 18:14:46 <Diablo-D3> erm, but hes not using transactions, I dont see him starting one
2284 2011-03-25 18:14:49 <Diablo-D3> that commit is a noop
2285 2011-03-25 18:14:54 <genjix> you don't need to
2286 2011-03-25 18:14:59 <Diablo-D3> on sqlite you need to
2287 2011-03-25 18:15:07 TheAncientGoat has joined
2288 2011-03-25 18:15:08 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, sqlite3 on python turns off autocommit
2289 2011-03-25 18:15:12 <phantomcircuit> by default
2290 2011-03-25 18:15:14 <Diablo-D3> eww
2291 2011-03-25 18:15:25 <Diablo-D3> another reason to hate python
2292 2011-03-25 18:15:26 JackRabiit has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2293 2011-03-25 18:15:30 <genjix> even with it on, it shouldnt be that slow
2294 2011-03-25 18:15:39 <Diablo-D3> depends, is it maxing out io?
2295 2011-03-25 18:15:43 <genjix> i can do 100 mysql inserts in a second
2296 2011-03-25 18:15:57 <Diablo-D3> because it very much sounds like you're not using a tx
2297 2011-03-25 18:16:17 <phantomcircuit> appears to be io bound
2298 2011-03-25 18:16:35 <Diablo-D3> yeah which tells me "no tx"
2299 2011-03-25 18:17:17 <genjix> phantomcircuit: just a tip: http://gitorious.org/intersango/master/blobs/master/cron/process_orders.php
2300 2011-03-25 18:17:28 <genjix> look at the formatting of my SQL... much easier to understand.
2301 2011-03-25 18:17:39 <Diablo-D3> genjix: no, his formatting is fine
2302 2011-03-25 18:17:44 <Diablo-D3> its the raw SQL thats disturbing to me
2303 2011-03-25 18:17:49 sprash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2304 2011-03-25 18:17:52 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, also im pretty sure sqlite3 module has a prepared statement cache
2305 2011-03-25 18:18:08 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: this is why I hate python coders
2306 2011-03-25 18:18:17 <Diablo-D3> they think any of that shit matters
2307 2011-03-25 18:18:28 <phantomcircuit> huh?
2308 2011-03-25 18:18:41 <Diablo-D3> its SQL, SQL works exactly one way in re: to this shit
2309 2011-03-25 18:18:47 <phantomcircuit> oh
2310 2011-03-25 18:18:51 <phantomcircuit> it's just a shitty benchmark
2311 2011-03-25 18:19:04 <Diablo-D3> if you didnt open a tx, you dont have a tx. if you didnt add prepared statements yourself, you arent using them.
2312 2011-03-25 18:19:24 <Diablo-D3> yes, its a very shitty benchmark
2313 2011-03-25 18:19:29 <Diablo-D3> its benchmarking how bad the coder is
2314 2011-03-25 18:19:43 <Diablo-D3> sqlite may be pretty crappy in performance, but its not THAT bad.
2315 2011-03-25 18:19:50 <Diablo-D3> its no pg, nor is it meant to be
2316 2011-03-25 18:20:02 <Diablo-D3> general best coding practices for SQL is enough to make sqlite fly for smaller shit
2317 2011-03-25 18:20:15 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, it is using transactions, which is clearly evident if you remove the commit
2318 2011-03-25 18:20:22 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr <luke-jr+git@utopios.org> * r49203a7d2c79 spesmilo/i18n/fr_FR.ts: delete zero-completion french ts
2319 2011-03-25 18:22:23 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: if you want, wait till you have 5 commits and push them all at once? :P
2320 2011-03-25 18:22:29 <Diablo-D3> well
2321 2011-03-25 18:22:29 <Diablo-D3> yes
2322 2011-03-25 18:22:32 <Simon14> [Tycho]:  is it possible to limit the number of threads for any of the CPU clients?
2323 2011-03-25 18:22:32 <Diablo-D3> thats another issue
2324 2011-03-25 18:22:34 <luke-jr> I modified the code so it should collapse >4 into 1 IRC line
2325 2011-03-25 18:22:34 <Diablo-D3> you're NOT using tx
2326 2011-03-25 18:22:39 <Diablo-D3> if you're doing it every 2 inserts
2327 2011-03-25 18:22:40 <jgarzik> Simon14: yes
2328 2011-03-25 18:22:49 <Diablo-D3> you do the commit AFTER ITS _ALL_ DONE
2329 2011-03-25 18:23:02 <Simon14> jgarzik: with yours I imagine?
2330 2011-03-25 18:23:04 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, except i cant know when it's all done
2331 2011-03-25 18:23:04 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2332 2011-03-25 18:23:08 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2333 2011-03-25 18:23:09 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: yes you do
2334 2011-03-25 18:23:13 <phantomcircuit> since i get blocks one at a time otw
2335 2011-03-25 18:23:16 <Diablo-D3> its done after those 200 commits.
2336 2011-03-25 18:23:21 <Diablo-D3> er
2337 2011-03-25 18:23:25 <Diablo-D3> its done after those 200 inserts.
2338 2011-03-25 18:23:25 <phantomcircuit> well yeah in this idiotic benchmark
2339 2011-03-25 18:23:38 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: what you're benchmarking is what 100 commits look like
2340 2011-03-25 18:23:41 <jgarzik> Simon14: I'm pretty sure you can do so with ufasoft's, as well.  Getting the precise number of threads to provide maximum Mhash/sec is critical.
2341 2011-03-25 18:23:41 <Diablo-D3> which is a useless benchmark
2342 2011-03-25 18:23:44 <Diablo-D3> its IO bound
2343 2011-03-25 18:23:51 <Diablo-D3> thats like what a medium website gets
2344 2011-03-25 18:23:57 <jgarzik> Simon14: of course, make sure you're not spending more on electricity, than the ~0.01BTC/day you will earn
2345 2011-03-25 18:24:05 <Diablo-D3> which is way outside the realm of sqlite usage
2346 2011-03-25 18:24:19 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, im using sqlite for my bitcoin client
2347 2011-03-25 18:24:24 <Diablo-D3> sqlite obviously cant lazy commit or squash commits during io block
2348 2011-03-25 18:24:28 <Simon14> jgarzik: I wanted to limit it to 1 core (of 4) because I run distributed.net client as well
2349 2011-03-25 18:24:33 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: yes, and you're not doing 100 writable ops in a second
2350 2011-03-25 18:24:38 <jgarzik> ;;bc,gen 4000
2351 2011-03-25 18:24:39 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0583267341497 BTC per day and 0.00243028058957 BTC per hour.
2352 2011-03-25 18:24:48 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, actually i am on initial block chain formation
2353 2011-03-25 18:24:56 <jgarzik> Simon14: all CPU miners should be able to do that
2354 2011-03-25 18:24:58 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: then you need to quash your commits
2355 2011-03-25 18:25:06 <phantomcircuit> yes but how
2356 2011-03-25 18:25:08 <jgarzik> ;;bc,gen 24000
2357 2011-03-25 18:25:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 24000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.349960404898 BTC per day and 0.0145816835374 BTC per hour.
2358 2011-03-25 18:25:15 <Simon14> I see it now, I missed a bunch of the command line args
2359 2011-03-25 18:25:16 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: have a fake commit function
2360 2011-03-25 18:25:24 <Simon14> jgarzik: thanks
2361 2011-03-25 18:25:37 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, eh i guess i could write a secondary caching mechanism
2362 2011-03-25 18:25:52 <phantomcircuit> i already did that for the non sqlalchemy branch
2363 2011-03-25 18:25:53 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: fakecommit(db) { if(last commit more than 5 seconds ago) { db.commit(); } }
2364 2011-03-25 18:25:56 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: or whatever
2365 2011-03-25 18:31:46 <phantomcircuit> oh snap
2366 2011-03-25 18:31:49 <phantomcircuit> i know
2367 2011-03-25 18:31:54 <phantomcircuit> 2 dbs
2368 2011-03-25 18:32:02 <phantomcircuit> one in memory, one on disk
2369 2011-03-25 18:32:20 <phantomcircuit> it's friday?
2370 2011-03-25 18:35:28 * Diablo-D3 punches phantomcircuit
2371 2011-03-25 18:35:32 <Diablo-D3> it'll never be friday again!
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2373 2011-03-25 18:39:34 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, see my real problem is that sqlalchemy doesn't support, INSERT OR REPLACE
2374 2011-03-25 18:39:45 <phantomcircuit> and there is a race condition possible between merge/add
2375 2011-03-25 18:40:47 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: that depends on the SQL impl imo
2376 2011-03-25 18:41:04 <phantomcircuit> yeah it does, which is why they dont
2377 2011-03-25 18:41:09 <Diablo-D3> yeah
2378 2011-03-25 18:41:12 <phantomcircuit>       block = self.session.merge(block)
2379 2011-03-25 18:41:12 <phantomcircuit>       self.session.add(block)
2380 2011-03-25 18:41:25 <phantomcircuit> between those two is a race condition
2381 2011-03-25 18:41:33 <Diablo-D3> unless you're in a tx
2382 2011-03-25 18:41:52 <Diablo-D3> if you have a unique on one of the columns, the insert will fail, ergo, the tx fails
2383 2011-03-25 18:41:58 <Diablo-D3> so you retry the tx
2384 2011-03-25 18:41:59 <phantomcircuit> well im using the session as an insert cache
2385 2011-03-25 18:42:09 <Diablo-D3> see above
2386 2011-03-25 18:42:29 <phantomcircuit> yeah except the insert doesn't fail until you call commit with sqlalchemy
2387 2011-03-25 18:42:31 <phantomcircuit> so
2388 2011-03-25 18:42:33 <phantomcircuit> explosion
2389 2011-03-25 18:42:42 <Diablo-D3> well yes
2390 2011-03-25 18:42:46 <Diablo-D3> but thats just a normal tx failure
2391 2011-03-25 18:42:58 <Diablo-D3> all well written sql code needs to handle tx failure in a way that makes sense
2392 2011-03-25 18:43:37 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2393 2011-03-25 18:44:16 <phantomcircuit> basically i have to write a smarter insert buffer than sqlalchemy uses
2394 2011-03-25 18:46:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah, or quit using sql directly
2395 2011-03-25 18:46:21 <Diablo-D3> but I doubt python has any good db frameworks
2396 2011-03-25 18:46:48 <phantomcircuit> yeah see im not using sql directly
2397 2011-03-25 18:46:58 <phantomcircuit> the branch where i am is significantly faster
2398 2011-03-25 18:47:33 <Diablo-D3> imo the only two languages suited for SQL is java and perl
2399 2011-03-25 18:49:44 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2401 2011-03-25 18:58:01 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, shared session + high timeout
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2403 2011-03-25 19:00:20 <phantomcircuit> lulz
2404 2011-03-25 19:00:24 <phantomcircuit> ok it's fast as hell now
2405 2011-03-25 19:00:46 <phantomcircuit> apparently so fast that i got so many blocks my connect_blocks function hit the recursion limit
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2407 2011-03-25 19:11:06 <phantomcircuit> lol i remember why  this doesn't work
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2420 2011-03-25 19:43:43 <gasteve> anyone know if there is any way to resolve cyclic dependencies between class definitions in separate header files without combining the header files?  (and where the dependencies require the full definition and not just the forward class reference)
2421 2011-03-25 19:43:53 <gasteve> (speaking about c++ here)
2422 2011-03-25 19:44:39 <luke-jr> can you plug a 6+2 pin PCIE power connector into a 6pin thing like Radeons?
2423 2011-03-25 19:45:03 <ArtForz> yes
2424 2011-03-25 19:45:07 <gasteve> yes (or at least I did)
2425 2011-03-25 19:45:17 <ArtForz> thats why it's called a 6+2
2426 2011-03-25 19:45:24 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, that's why it's called 6+2 instead of 8
2427 2011-03-25 19:45:32 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I don't trust marketting people
2428 2011-03-25 19:45:36 <ArtForz> first!
2429 2011-03-25 19:45:39 <phantomcircuit> lulz
2430 2011-03-25 19:45:45 <gasteve> I think they make those plugs pretty much idiot proof...if the plug fits...you're usually good to go
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2432 2011-03-25 19:45:54 <phantomcircuit> i cant get sqlalchemy to play nicely with postgre
2433 2011-03-25 19:45:55 <phantomcircuit> >.>
2434 2011-03-25 19:46:11 <ArtForz> gasteve: yep, pretty much
2435 2011-03-25 19:46:31 <gasteve> ^^^ anyone have an answer to my c++ question up there
2436 2011-03-25 19:46:41 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2437 2011-03-25 19:46:45 <ArtForz> one nice thing is, 6+2 usually use a bit better contacts and heavier wiring than plain 6-pin
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2439 2011-03-25 19:47:01 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, forward declaration
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2441 2011-03-25 19:47:10 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, oh missed that last part
2442 2011-03-25 19:47:16 <gasteve> ;)
2443 2011-03-25 19:47:22 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, you have an exampe?
2444 2011-03-25 19:48:08 <luke-jr> ASRock A770DE+ mobo, 2x XFX HD-587X-ZNFC (Radeon 5870), Antec 750W continuous power, Samsung DDR2 1 GB, AMD Sempron 140
2445 2011-03-25 19:48:09 <gasteve> class A has a class B as a member and class B has class A as a member
2446 2011-03-25 19:48:10 <luke-jr> sound good?
2447 2011-03-25 19:48:42 <gasteve> (so the compiler will need to know the size of each to work out the size of either one)
2448 2011-03-25 19:48:43 <luke-jr> hint; Newegg has 5870 at $190 ea - $20 rebate…
2449 2011-03-25 19:48:50 Hogofwar has joined
2450 2011-03-25 19:48:56 <ArtForz> they're horribly overspecced anyways, contacts for 6-pin rated 8A/pin while spec only allows 3.125A/pin, for 8-pin contacts rated 12A while spec allows 4.16A/pin
2451 2011-03-25 19:49:06 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, that should work with forward declarations
2452 2011-03-25 19:49:11 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, why cant you use them?
2453 2011-03-25 19:49:14 <Hogofwar> ugh can't get bitcoinj to work
2454 2011-03-25 19:49:23 <Hogofwar> tried getting it to connect to a fallback ip
2455 2011-03-25 19:49:26 <Hogofwar> won't connect
2456 2011-03-25 19:49:28 <gasteve> it won't...with a forward decl, the compiler doesn't know the size of the class
2457 2011-03-25 19:49:46 <gasteve> (or to be more precise.. the size of an instance of the class)
2458 2011-03-25 19:49:46 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, and why does it need to?
2459 2011-03-25 19:50:03 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 680000
2460 2011-03-25 19:50:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 680000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5 days, 1 hour, 1 minute, and 19 seconds
2461 2011-03-25 19:50:13 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 680000
2462 2011-03-25 19:50:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 680000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 9.91554480545 BTC per day and 0.413147700227 BTC per hour.
2463 2011-03-25 19:50:56 <gasteve> hmmm...maybe it doesn't need to know the size until you try to define a variable for one of the classes
2464 2011-03-25 19:51:02 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
2465 2011-03-25 19:51:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115036 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1891 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 84897.93749629
2466 2011-03-25 19:51:23 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gend 680000 85000
2467 2011-03-25 19:51:24 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 680000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 85000, is 8.04662704468 BTC per day and 0.335276126862 BTC per hour.
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2473 2011-03-25 20:01:55 <neo_> Just curious.... are many developers are [slowly/currently] moving their savings to BTC in lieu of a crashing $ ???
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2478 2011-03-25 20:04:48 <subpar> when the Chinese quit buying US debt and buy BTC - I'll follow them...
2479 2011-03-25 20:04:54 <subpar> =)
2480 2011-03-25 20:05:04 <neo_> I am on the fence as to whether to buy BTC opposed to other resources such as minerals and such. BTC seems to be a good option.  I am just wondering how others  feel.
2481 2011-03-25 20:05:22 <BlueMatt> move this to #bitcoin-otc?
2482 2011-03-25 20:05:24 <phantomcircuit> well we're here aren't we?
2483 2011-03-25 20:05:55 <neo_> BlueMatt... i am asking devs...
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2489 2011-03-25 20:06:19 <Avemo> neo_: balanced portfolio containing both BTC and minerals and maybe other asset classes, seem like a reasonable  idea
2490 2011-03-25 20:06:23 <BlueMatt> in any case, most people (including me) see bitcoin as a high risk/high gain investment just like any other currency trading except even more volatile
2491 2011-03-25 20:06:47 <BlueMatt> not necessarily a long-term investment
2492 2011-03-25 20:07:04 <neo_> So what % would you put in BTC BlueMatt?
2493 2011-03-25 20:07:22 <BlueMatt> neo_: depends highly on your goals as an investor
2494 2011-03-25 20:07:32 <neo_> surrival
2495 2011-03-25 20:07:45 <BlueMatt> if you are talking savings...like 0, if you want to actively trade high volume, well then trade
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2497 2011-03-25 20:07:55 <BlueMatt> back and forth depending on price
2498 2011-03-25 20:08:06 <BlueMatt> but youve got to be willing to take big risks to do currency trading
2499 2011-03-25 20:08:24 <BlueMatt> personally, when I get paid in BTC, I keep them as BTC...when I get paid in USD, I keep USD, etc, etc
2500 2011-03-25 20:08:33 <neo_> Every 'currency' has risks. The $ seems to be the highest (IMO)
2501 2011-03-25 20:08:39 <BlueMatt> I dont bother trading that actively
2502 2011-03-25 20:09:06 <BlueMatt> neo_: I dont think bitcoin is highly opportune investment within the next 1-2 years
2503 2011-03-25 20:09:24 <BlueMatt> after that it is anyone's guess depending on how many merchants/how bit a community we can develop around BTC
2504 2011-03-25 20:09:26 <jgarzik> from an investor standpoint, bitcoins remain "very high risk"
2505 2011-03-25 20:09:41 <jgarzik> it's like a penny stock
2506 2011-03-25 20:09:49 <jgarzik> any joe with money can own it
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2508 2011-03-25 20:10:03 <BlueMatt> its like a penny stock crossed with currency trading
2509 2011-03-25 20:10:03 <jgarzik> s/own/disrupt/
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2513 2011-03-25 20:10:44 <BlueMatt> long term: penny stock, size of market: penny stock, volatility: currency trading
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2515 2011-03-25 20:11:52 <neo_> Right. I have very little faith in the $ as it is a debt note attached to an IOU!
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2517 2011-03-25 20:12:01 <neo_> in recursion...
2518 2011-03-25 20:12:03 <BlueMatt> neo_: no its not
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2520 2011-03-25 20:12:11 <BlueMatt> its a currency
2521 2011-03-25 20:12:15 <wump> then buy euros :P
2522 2011-03-25 20:12:16 <BlueMatt> a bond is an IOU
2523 2011-03-25 20:12:29 <wump> (kidding)
2524 2011-03-25 20:12:36 <neo_> BlueMatt, what is the currency based off of?
2525 2011-03-25 20:12:47 <neo_> eg, what can you trade it in for?
2526 2011-03-25 20:12:55 <neo_> fiat?
2527 2011-03-25 20:12:56 <BlueMatt> neo_: existing market just like BTC or any other currency
2528 2011-03-25 20:13:12 <BlueMatt> neo_: its not based on govt, they just control the total amt of usd
2529 2011-03-25 20:13:39 <neo_> BlueMatt: Please read: http://www.rayservers.com/images/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf
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2533 2011-03-25 20:13:50 <neo_> Written by the Federal Reserve...
2534 2011-03-25 20:13:59 <neo_> ever seen that?
2535 2011-03-25 20:14:04 <phantomcircuit> neo_, the value of a BTC is based on what other people will give you for it
2536 2011-03-25 20:14:08 <BlueMatt> neo_: I understand what the value of a currency is
2537 2011-03-25 20:14:11 <phantomcircuit> just like any other commodity
2538 2011-03-25 20:14:44 <BlueMatt> and BTC is no different...the only difference is the backing of total count of currency in the world
2539 2011-03-25 20:14:56 <neo_> BlueMatt: Fiat value is what a 'government' places value on it.... it is not much of a currency if it's backed by nothing... but air!
2540 2011-03-25 20:15:09 <BlueMatt> neo_: and how is BTC different?
2541 2011-03-25 20:15:16 <neo_> eg, it can pay for things like taxes... that is what makes it 'fiat'
2542 2011-03-25 20:15:24 <ArtForz> err... no
2543 2011-03-25 20:15:29 <neo_> BTC has a total amouyt 21M
2544 2011-03-25 20:15:31 <BlueMatt> neo_: and no the govt doesnt place value on it, only requires you to pay taxes
2545 2011-03-25 20:15:36 <neo_> and NEVER more
2546 2011-03-25 20:15:42 <BlueMatt> neo_: that doesnt give it value
2547 2011-03-25 20:15:46 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2548 2011-03-25 20:15:49 <neo_> of course it does
2549 2011-03-25 20:15:55 <BlueMatt> I can go print one "BlueMatt Dollar" and only ever print one
2550 2011-03-25 20:15:57 <phantomcircuit> neo_, bitcoins are not currency, they are a commodity
2551 2011-03-25 20:15:59 <BlueMatt> it doesnt thus have value
2552 2011-03-25 20:16:14 <ArtForz> well, they act like a ideal commodity for use as a currency :P
2553 2011-03-25 20:16:24 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, exactly
2554 2011-03-25 20:16:32 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: is right
2555 2011-03-25 20:17:02 <phantomcircuit> bitcoins are equivalent to gold if the total world supply of gold was known
2556 2011-03-25 20:17:48 TD has joined
2557 2011-03-25 20:18:11 <ArtForz> thats imo one of the strongest points of bitcoin, there is no central authority to subvert or shut down, and no central authority to issue a few trillion out of thin air
2558 2011-03-25 20:18:14 <neo_> which is why BTC is very interesting... and that NO gov't/central auth can control it...
2559 2011-03-25 20:18:24 <neo_> right
2560 2011-03-25 20:18:33 <phantomcircuit> well not exactly
2561 2011-03-25 20:18:46 <BlueMatt> neo_: but that in no way gives it value, only really because so many of us find it an attractive idea
2562 2011-03-25 20:18:51 <phantomcircuit> your ISP could attack a specific node
2563 2011-03-25 20:18:54 <phantomcircuit> fairly easily
2564 2011-03-25 20:19:16 <Diablo-D3> hrm
2565 2011-03-25 20:19:17 <Diablo-D3> hey ArtForz
2566 2011-03-25 20:19:23 <Diablo-D3> do you reuse the output buffers?
2567 2011-03-25 20:19:27 <Diablo-D3> on your miner
2568 2011-03-25 20:19:31 <ArtForz> yes
2569 2011-03-25 20:19:45 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how much shit I'd cause if I didnt reuse them
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2571 2011-03-25 20:20:02 <phantomcircuit> output buffers?
2572 2011-03-25 20:20:13 <BlueMatt> how was bitcoind.exe 0.3.20 compiled on win32.  I keep getting pthread_exit, fork, setsid not declared
2573 2011-03-25 20:20:18 <ArtForz> dunno, given atis driver quality, probably a few kernel panics :P
2574 2011-03-25 20:20:19 <neo_> BlueMatt: why do you thing gold/silver are going up?
2575 2011-03-25 20:20:41 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, you've heard of the 5khash bug, right?
2576 2011-03-25 20:20:47 <BlueMatt> neo_: the same reason they always do, because someone else will give you something with utility to you for gold
2577 2011-03-25 20:20:48 <ArtForz> yea
2578 2011-03-25 20:20:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I have no fucking clue how to fix it. Its clearly not my code
2579 2011-03-25 20:21:02 <Diablo-D3> yet for some, m0's doesnt do it
2580 2011-03-25 20:22:06 <ArtForz> hurrrm
2581 2011-03-25 20:22:15 <ArtForz> could be related to stuff like that I guess
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2583 2011-03-25 20:22:41 <Diablo-D3> https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/issues/7
2584 2011-03-25 20:22:43 <Diablo-D3> and then theres that.
2585 2011-03-25 20:22:45 <Diablo-D3> fucking osx.
2586 2011-03-25 20:22:49 <Blitzboom> neo_: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoins_have_no_intrinsic_value_(unlike_some_other_things)
2587 2011-03-25 20:23:05 <ArtForz> how do you resize output buffer when you change #workitems to hit -f target?
2588 2011-03-25 20:23:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont.
2589 2011-03-25 20:23:18 <ArtForz> ?
2590 2011-03-25 20:23:27 <Diablo-D3> fixed size of ... 64? outputs.
2591 2011-03-25 20:23:41 <ArtForz> ahhh
2592 2011-03-25 20:23:56 <ArtForz> output[nonce & 0x3F] = nonce ?
2593 2011-03-25 20:24:02 <ArtForz> makes sense
2594 2011-03-25 20:24:03 <Diablo-D3> 256 outputs?
2595 2011-03-25 20:24:09 <Diablo-D3> its & 0xFF
2596 2011-03-25 20:24:14 <ArtForz> yeah, 256 then
2597 2011-03-25 20:24:28 <ArtForz> hmmm... that shouldnt cause any problem
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2599 2011-03-25 20:25:50 <ArtForz> did any of the ppl seeing that low hashrate try to run without the magic cpu-use env var?
2600 2011-03-25 20:26:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they were on windows
2601 2011-03-25 20:26:28 <neo_> Thanks Blitzboom. That makes my arguement for me. To be honest... I want to start converting a lot of my $ into BTC. I was just wondering how others felt about it. I see it as a more secure investmet than many others.
2602 2011-03-25 20:26:43 <ArtForz> oh, right
2603 2011-03-25 20:26:56 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and some of the ones on linux who had it were on 10.less.than.12 and 2.1
2604 2011-03-25 20:26:56 <ArtForz> hrrrm
2605 2011-03-25 20:27:06 <Diablo-D3> and had cpu mining off
2606 2011-03-25 20:27:07 <ArtForz> thats weird as hell
2607 2011-03-25 20:27:13 <BlueMatt> neo_: then you are insane, but have fun losing money
2608 2011-03-25 20:27:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, and I obviously cant reproduce it
2609 2011-03-25 20:27:37 <neo_> BlueMatt, what was BTC trading for this time last year?
2610 2011-03-25 20:27:46 <neo_> do you know?
2611 2011-03-25 20:27:47 <ArtForz> when in doubt, add more logging
2612 2011-03-25 20:27:49 <BlueMatt> neo_: doesnt mean it will keep going up
2613 2011-03-25 20:27:56 <neo_> please answer.
2614 2011-03-25 20:28:03 <BlueMatt> neo_: does it matter? no
2615 2011-03-25 20:28:12 <neo_> was it .04 ?
2616 2011-03-25 20:28:12 <BlueMatt> neo_: and please move this to #bitcoin-otc
2617 2011-03-25 20:28:22 <Blitzboom> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#vztgSzm1g10zm2g25
2618 2011-03-25 20:28:25 <BlueMatt> did anyone aside from gavinandresen or satoshi ever compile bitcoin on MINGW?
2619 2011-03-25 20:28:32 <luke-jr> neo_: under 10 cents USD
2620 2011-03-25 20:29:30 <BlueMatt> neo_: yes it has blown up, but that does not in any way predict the future of BTC. Yes I agree it will most likely long-term go up.  That is in no one set and thinking BTC is a safe investment is insane
2621 2011-03-25 20:29:50 <Blitzboom> it’s high risk, high reward
2622 2011-03-25 20:30:00 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: exactly
2623 2011-03-25 20:30:03 <Blitzboom> (pretty damn high)
2624 2011-03-25 20:30:04 <neo_> Again... please name a 'safe' investment.... BULLETS?!! (hehe)
2625 2011-03-25 20:30:12 <Diablo-D3> women, clearly
2626 2011-03-25 20:30:15 <neo_> hgahahaha
2627 2011-03-25 20:30:19 <Diablo-D3> buy a whole bunch, keep them in your basement
2628 2011-03-25 20:30:25 <neo_> agreed
2629 2011-03-25 20:30:25 <BlueMatt> neo_: bonds?
2630 2011-03-25 20:30:26 <Blitzboom> neo_: if you can handle the risk, do it
2631 2011-03-25 20:30:32 <Guest3937> safe investment: Bank CD's
2632 2011-03-25 20:30:36 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: no they get ugly after a few years
2633 2011-03-25 20:30:37 <neo_> US BONDS? LMFAS!
2634 2011-03-25 20:30:38 <Blitzboom> if you can’t, invest only a small part
2635 2011-03-25 20:30:41 <Diablo-D3> bank cds are not safe.
2636 2011-03-25 20:30:57 <BlueMatt> neo_: when has a us bond ever defaulted, yes it could, but that is still a ways off
2637 2011-03-25 20:30:59 <Guest3937> Diablo-D3, safer than stocks don't you think?
2638 2011-03-25 20:31:00 <Diablo-D3> us federal treasury bonds actually ARE safe
2639 2011-03-25 20:31:00 <ArtForz> maybe log global work size
2640 2011-03-25 20:31:04 <BlueMatt> neo_: please be sensible not insane
2641 2011-03-25 20:31:10 <Diablo-D3> Guest3937: depends how you define stocks
2642 2011-03-25 20:31:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: global work size cant exceed 2^32, nor drop too low
2643 2011-03-25 20:31:40 <BlueMatt> neo_: and bonds of just about any developed country are 100s of times safer of an investment than BTC
2644 2011-03-25 20:31:59 <BlueMatt> neo_: and that is all Im saying on the matter unless you switch to #bitcoin-otc
2645 2011-03-25 20:32:15 <ArtForz> just thinking, maybe one driver/sdk combo really doesnt like certaing globalworksizes...
2646 2011-03-25 20:32:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: possibly.
2647 2011-03-25 20:32:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but setting -f 1 doesnt fix it
2648 2011-03-25 20:33:24 <neo_> BlueMat: Not to get way off topic...but the US is Bankrupt!!!! BLUE MATT: Please read: http://www.truthsetsusfree.com/HJR192.htm anyway I will back off... this one goes very deep...
2649 2011-03-25 20:34:03 <ArtForz> I'd check 1. is the kernel that runs actually sane, or does the SDK/driver try something *really* stupid while compiling?
2650 2011-03-25 20:34:10 osmosis has joined
2651 2011-03-25 20:34:38 <ArtForz> sor example, creates a multi-MB kernel by unrolling a few dozen blocks of sha256
2652 2011-03-25 20:36:11 <ArtForz> I'd also limit globalworksize to multiples of localworksize, doesnt make sense to use non-multiples
2653 2011-03-25 20:36:28 <ArtForz> wait, you do
2654 2011-03-25 20:36:51 <luke-jr> neo_: ammo is usually a good investment
2655 2011-03-25 20:37:04 <luke-jr> neo_: or a farm
2656 2011-03-25 20:37:32 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2657 2011-03-25 20:41:58 <neo_> luke-jr: agreed!
2658 2011-03-25 20:42:51 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r42 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/NetworkConnection.java:
2659 2011-03-25 20:42:51 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: Change the order of the messages in the version handshake. This fixes
2660 2011-03-25 20:42:51 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: connections to BitCoin nodes beyond v0.30.20.2 which are "shy", that is, they do
2661 2011-03-25 20:42:51 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: not announce their version on accepting a connection. The intent of that change
2662 2011-03-25 20:42:51 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: is to make port scanning harder, though it is questionable whether this really
2663 2011-03-25 20:42:51 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: is effective.
2664 2011-03-25 20:43:13 <BlueMatt> nice TD
2665 2011-03-25 20:43:33 <TD> mumble
2666 2011-03-25 20:46:26 <jgarzik> it raises the port-scanning bar only slightly.  but it does enable useful features like accept filtering / TCP_DEFER_ACCEPT.
2667 2011-03-25 20:46:42 <jgarzik> a net win
2668 2011-03-25 20:49:28 <gasteve> just had an idea after reading this...on incoming connection, require some proof of work token before allowing a connection...that would raise the bar for port scanning dramatically
2669 2011-03-25 20:50:15 <TD> i hadn't seen TCP_DEFER_ACCEPT before
2670 2011-03-25 20:50:19 <TD> seems like a nice optimization
2671 2011-03-25 20:50:32 <jgarzik> TD: was done in linux/bsd/... for HTTP
2672 2011-03-25 20:50:32 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2673 2011-03-25 20:50:41 <TD> i'm not convinced port scanning is such a big deal. bear in mind you are announcing via a broadcast message your ip and port
2674 2011-03-25 20:50:44 <jgarzik> TD: no need to wake up the user app, until client sends something interesting
2675 2011-03-25 20:51:21 <jgarzik> definitely saves cycles on busy servers
2676 2011-03-25 20:52:19 molecular has joined
2677 2011-03-25 20:52:20 <TD> bitcoins network protocol is certainly a bit quirky. i'm still trying to find the bug that randomly injects garbage between messages.
2678 2011-03-25 20:52:47 <jgarzik> that isn't garbage, those are carefully inserted nonce values!
2679 2011-03-25 20:52:50 <jgarzik> j/k
2680 2011-03-25 20:52:51 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2681 2011-03-25 20:54:39 <TD> haha
2682 2011-03-25 20:56:37 alex5771 has joined
2683 2011-03-25 20:58:05 <BlueMatt> tcatm/jgarzik: can we get a #ifndef WIN32 before we daemonize so bitcoind builds on mingw?
2684 2011-03-25 20:58:33 TheKid has joined
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2687 2011-03-25 20:58:51 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if bitcoind build fails on mingw, we need to fix that
2688 2011-03-25 20:59:12 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you should open an issue, with details (or a pull request)
2689 2011-03-25 20:59:19 <gruez> ;;getrating gruez
2690 2011-03-25 20:59:19 <gribble> User gruez, with hostmask None, was created on Fri Mar 25 13:28:52 2011, and has a cumulative rating of 1, from a total of 1 ratings. Of these, 1 are positive and 0 are negative. This user has also sent 1 positive ratings, and 0 negative ratings to others.
2691 2011-03-25 20:59:25 <molecular> BlueMatt, about your earlier gpg-for-wallet-backup criticism: I use "gpg --symmetric wallet.dat"
2692 2011-03-25 20:59:41 <BlueMatt> molecular: does that require a key?
2693 2011-03-25 20:59:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: __WXMSW__ is bitcoin's preferred test for Windows, AFAICS
2694 2011-03-25 21:00:24 <molecular> I certainly hope it's not using any keys from my system... it asks for a passphrase
2695 2011-03-25 21:00:33 AmpEater has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2696 2011-03-25 21:00:41 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: the problem is there is no fork, pthread_exit or setsid on mingw
2697 2011-03-25 21:01:15 <BlueMatt> previously, there was a #ifdef __WXGTK__ surrounding it, but tcatm removed that for some reason
2698 2011-03-25 21:01:25 <BlueMatt> ie ifndef __WXMSW__
2699 2011-03-25 21:01:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pthread_exit exists, but not the other two, I agree.
2700 2011-03-25 21:01:36 TheKid has left ()
2701 2011-03-25 21:02:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if mingw build fails, that's a bug to be fixed, plain and simple
2702 2011-03-25 21:02:17 TheKid has joined
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2705 2011-03-25 21:02:44 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, well my point was simply the fix is so simple that wasting time making a pull req and/or bug report is pointless
2706 2011-03-25 21:02:58 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: just revert 2 lines from tcatm's patch
2707 2011-03-25 21:03:20 <molecular> BlueMatt, f..k, "gpg --symmetric" does seem to use some user key!!
2708 2011-03-25 21:03:31 <molecular> what the fuck
2709 2011-03-25 21:03:38 <BlueMatt> molecular: then my entire criticism is valid from earlier
2710 2011-03-25 21:03:46 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2711 2011-03-25 21:04:01 <molecular> yes, and you potentially save me 1000 BTC
2712 2011-03-25 21:04:10 <molecular> saved*
2713 2011-03-25 21:04:19 <BlueMatt> molecular: if, OTOH it uses some kind of passphrase then I agree that it is as valid as anything else (except maybe aes only because it is a better understood algo)
2714 2011-03-25 21:04:30 <BlueMatt> but I dont know specifics of gpg --symmetric
2715 2011-03-25 21:04:37 <molecular> it does ask for a passphrase
2716 2011-03-25 21:04:41 <molecular> but also uses key
2717 2011-03-25 21:04:55 <molecular> so if I loose that key (only on that system), the backups are worthless
2718 2011-03-25 21:05:35 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: <shrug> tcatm is not around and I cannot deal with bitcoin right now as I'm hip deep in other stuff.  if you don't want to pull request or whatever, then just don't forget it, and manually bug people until something happens...
2719 2011-03-25 21:05:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: in open source finding a bug doesn't mean everyone else magically has time to take care of the rest for you
2720 2011-03-25 21:05:56 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, well Ill pull req it then
2721 2011-03-25 21:06:02 alex5771 has quit (Quit: alex5771)
2722 2011-03-25 21:06:05 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: never said that, just wondered if you did
2723 2011-03-25 21:06:10 gr0gmint has joined
2724 2011-03-25 21:06:52 <Diablo-D3> [04:34:56] <ArtForz> I'd also limit globalworksize to multiples of localworksize, doesnt make sense to use non-multiples
2725 2011-03-25 21:06:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: it does
2726 2011-03-25 21:07:03 trentzb has joined
2727 2011-03-25 21:07:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: all math is done in worksize units.
2728 2011-03-25 21:07:17 <ArtForz> see the line right beow that
2729 2011-03-25 21:07:23 <molecular> BlueMatt, sorry, my affirmation (gpg --symmetric uses key) might've been false after all...
2730 2011-03-25 21:07:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and worksize units == 64 or whatever you've set it to.
2731 2011-03-25 21:08:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: as for the kernel, I'd be very surprised if it tried that
2732 2011-03-25 21:10:44 neo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2734 2011-03-25 21:13:14 <molecular> BlueMatt, it's false, gpg -c (--symmetric) uses only the passphrase it asks for. (phew!)
2735 2011-03-25 21:15:20 TheKid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2736 2011-03-25 21:18:07 <phantomcircuit> ok so time to completely redesign this
2737 2011-03-25 21:18:21 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: this as in what?
2738 2011-03-25 21:18:26 <phantomcircuit> bitcoin-alt
2739 2011-03-25 21:18:46 <BlueMatt> ah
2740 2011-03-25 21:18:54 <nanotube> molecular: man gpg says as much. :)
2741 2011-03-25 21:18:57 <phantomcircuit> synchronizing the block chain between a bunch of threads it a massive pita
2742 2011-03-25 21:19:01 mehh has quit ()
2743 2011-03-25 21:19:17 <nanotube> molecular: you can combine it with --encrypt, to make it decryptable with either key or pw. but plain --symmetric just does the pw.
2744 2011-03-25 21:19:20 Venatic` has joined
2745 2011-03-25 21:19:24 <molecular> nanotube, yeah, but I had to make sure, all my coins at stake here ;)
2746 2011-03-25 21:19:32 <BlueMatt> does it salt?
2747 2011-03-25 21:19:35 <nanotube> molecular: haha what exactly are you doing?
2748 2011-03-25 21:19:42 <molecular> nanotube, then I want plain --symmetric
2749 2011-03-25 21:19:44 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, salt what?
2750 2011-03-25 21:19:55 <BlueMatt> the password on gpg --symmetric
2751 2011-03-25 21:19:56 <molecular> I encrypted my savings account wallet using gpg --symmetric
2752 2011-03-25 21:20:01 oval- has joined
2753 2011-03-25 21:20:04 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the password goes through a strengthening algorithm
2754 2011-03-25 21:20:05 <molecular> and emailed to friends
2755 2011-03-25 21:20:10 <BlueMatt> ok
2756 2011-03-25 21:20:10 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, think salt on steroids
2757 2011-03-25 21:20:15 <BlueMatt> fair enough
2758 2011-03-25 21:20:18 gribble has quit (Disconnected by services)
2759 2011-03-25 21:20:38 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: he was just responding to the long discussion on gpg and savings wallet encryption earlier
2760 2011-03-25 21:20:38 <nanotube> molecular: why did you do that? distributed backup? :)
2761 2011-03-25 21:20:51 <BlueMatt> nanotube: why wouldnt you do that?
2762 2011-03-25 21:20:56 <BlueMatt> on a savings wallet
2763 2011-03-25 21:20:58 <molecular> just dont want to loose it. I seem to magically induce hd-crashs
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2766 2011-03-25 21:21:16 <CIA-96> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r43 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Take some Block setters out of the public API. The ability to create/solve blocks is intended only for unit testing in this library.
2767 2011-03-25 21:21:19 <molecular> if my flat burns down or some shit
2768 2011-03-25 21:21:30 <nanotube> BlueMatt: well... more specifically i was wondering why he didn't do regular gpg --encrypt
2769 2011-03-25 21:21:31 Guest3937 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2773 2011-03-25 21:21:40 <BlueMatt> nanotube: please, please read the logs
2774 2011-03-25 21:21:47 <BlueMatt> I dont want to discuss this at length again
2775 2011-03-25 21:21:50 <phantomcircuit> molecular, dropbox
2776 2011-03-25 21:21:58 <molecular> nanotube, because that would mean I have to watch my private key and if I loose that -> boom
2777 2011-03-25 21:22:01 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: better to have it as many places as possible
2778 2011-03-25 21:22:05 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2779 2011-03-25 21:22:05 `Ven has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2780 2011-03-25 21:22:08 zylche has joined
2781 2011-03-25 21:22:08 <nanotube> BlueMatt: oh heh ok... there are too many logs. hehe. sorry.
2782 2011-03-25 21:22:08 zylche has quit (Excess Flood)
2783 2011-03-25 21:22:13 <molecular> well, the "distributed" part is solved easily by mailing to friends
2784 2011-03-25 21:22:14 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sure but dropbox is like having it in 5 places
2785 2011-03-25 21:22:15 gribble has joined
2786 2011-03-25 21:22:16 <phantomcircuit> :P
2787 2011-03-25 21:22:28 <BlueMatt> nanotube: basically just what molecular said, protection of private key
2788 2011-03-25 21:22:30 <nanotube> molecular: you could email /other/ friends your private key. as long as you have a strong passphrase on it, it would be just as secure as your encrypted wallet.
2789 2011-03-25 21:22:31 <molecular> I have more than 5 friends ;)
2790 2011-03-25 21:22:46 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: nothing wrong with both emails and dropbox :)
2791 2011-03-25 21:22:47 <phantomcircuit> molecular, do they all have different email providers?
2792 2011-03-25 21:22:49 <nanotube> but anyway, nothing wrong with --symmetric
2793 2011-03-25 21:22:55 <nanotube> just don't forget your pw
2794 2011-03-25 21:22:56 <nanotube> heh
2795 2011-03-25 21:22:57 <molecular> nanotube, true, but why the hassle?
2796 2011-03-25 21:23:05 alex5771 has joined
2797 2011-03-25 21:23:23 <molecular> nanotube, right, it's stored permanently in my brain. even survived quite a few alcohol-induced blackouts
2798 2011-03-25 21:23:32 <nanotube> molecular: hehe ok
2799 2011-03-25 21:23:35 <molecular> well, and other drug-use
2800 2011-03-25 21:23:39 <nanotube> hope you don't use the same one for your facebook account. :P
2801 2011-03-25 21:23:44 <molecular> lol
2802 2011-03-25 21:24:57 <molecular> I never log on to fb any more since they have xmpp for chat ;)
2803 2011-03-25 21:25:14 <phantomcircuit> ditto
2804 2011-03-25 21:25:46 <molecular> especiall fun when people chat "hey, you on facebook!?!" and you answer "no"
2805 2011-03-25 21:27:16 <CIA-96> bitcoin: phantomcircuit <phantomcircuit@covertinferno.org> sqlalchemy * rf7f5eec452fc bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/ (peer.py storage.py): Improved connect algorithm addressed race condition
2806 2011-03-25 21:27:39 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, that would be much better if it had a link to the commit
2807 2011-03-25 21:32:22 Hogofwar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2812 2011-03-25 21:39:53 <jrabbit> [Tycho]: ping
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2816 2011-03-25 21:47:25 <[Tycho]> Hello.
2817 2011-03-25 21:49:44 <jrabbit> nvm
2818 2011-03-25 21:49:49 <jrabbit> issue was on my end
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2822 2011-03-25 21:54:40 Bosma_ is now known as Bosma
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2826 2011-03-25 22:08:01 xelister has joined
2827 2011-03-25 22:09:10 <xelister> damn I can't mind a block in x2 expected time :|
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2830 2011-03-25 22:11:46 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 1000000
2831 2011-03-25 22:11:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 3 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes, and 42 seconds
2832 2011-03-25 22:12:01 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1000000 6d20h34m84s
2833 2011-03-25 22:12:02 <gribble> Error: '6d20h34m84s' is not a valid argument.
2834 2011-03-25 22:12:07 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1000000 6d 20h 34m 84s
2835 2011-03-25 22:12:08 <gribble> 0.864664637076
2836 2011-03-25 22:12:25 <xelister> ;;bc,prob 500000 14d
2837 2011-03-25 22:12:25 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1000000 9d 30h 51m 126s
2838 2011-03-25 22:12:26 <gribble> 0.870157836778
2839 2011-03-25 22:12:27 <gribble> 0.950212887659
2840 2011-03-25 22:12:29 <xelister> ;;bc,prob 500000 14d
2841 2011-03-25 22:12:30 <gribble> 0.870157836778
2842 2011-03-25 22:12:38 <xelister> ;;bc,prob 500000 1y
2843 2011-03-25 22:12:40 <gribble> 1
2844 2011-03-25 22:12:45 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2845 2011-03-25 22:12:57 <xelister> ;;bc,prob 40000 1y
2846 2011-03-25 22:12:58 <gribble> 0.98584732452
2847 2011-03-25 22:15:16 subpar has joined
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2853 2011-03-25 22:23:03 <luke-jr> jgarzik: __WXMSW__ isn't likely to be defined for bitcoind
2854 2011-03-25 22:23:54 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: remind me after someone tests pushing 5+ commits at once ;)
2855 2011-03-25 22:25:21 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: it is though
2856 2011-03-25 22:25:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: by what?
2857 2011-03-25 22:25:59 peck has joined
2858 2011-03-25 22:26:13 <BlueMatt> ...the makefile?
2859 2011-03-25 22:26:27 <BlueMatt> DEFS=...-D__WXMSW__...
2860 2011-03-25 22:26:33 <BlueMatt> in makefile.mingw
2861 2011-03-25 22:31:52 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,stats
2862 2011-03-25 22:31:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115056 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1871 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 14 hours, 39 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 84080.22082574
2863 2011-03-25 22:32:09 <LtBrenton> @_@ 84080?!
2864 2011-03-25 22:33:13 antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2865 2011-03-25 22:33:30 <lfm> ya it would seem someone is trying something
2866 2011-03-25 22:34:34 ivan has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2867 2011-03-25 22:35:40 ivan has joined
2868 2011-03-25 22:39:55 <midnightmagic> no, difficulty is still evening out
2869 2011-03-25 22:40:05 <midnightmagic> it changed recently, ignore the estimate
2870 2011-03-25 22:40:22 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2871 2011-03-25 22:40:30 <ArtForz> actually thats about on track for just extrapolating growth ignoring the MM spike
2872 2011-03-25 22:41:32 gruez has joined
2873 2011-03-25 22:41:41 <midnightmagic> we wont know with any reasonably surety until a number more blocks have been found though
2874 2011-03-25 22:41:46 <ArtForz> yeah
2875 2011-03-25 22:42:13 <lfm> a number?
2876 2011-03-25 22:42:16 <midnightmagic> i guess the japanese miners might be coming back online
2877 2011-03-25 22:42:30 ApertureScience has joined
2878 2011-03-25 22:42:49 <midnightmagic> lfm: it's just an estimate, projecting out to 1871 more blocks. :) it's going to be very inaccurate because blocks are found randomly
2879 2011-03-25 22:43:23 <midnightmagic> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png   there look there.
2880 2011-03-25 22:43:35 <lfm> ya but 2 is a number
2881 2011-03-25 22:43:40 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
2882 2011-03-25 22:43:54 <ArtForz> now ignore the MM-added spikes
2883 2011-03-25 22:44:00 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
2884 2011-03-25 22:44:24 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2885 2011-03-25 22:44:35 <midnightmagic> lfm: sure, but since I was speaking in english, read "a number" as "an indeterminate number"
2886 2011-03-25 22:44:50 <lfm> 3?
2887 2011-03-25 22:44:59 <midnightmagic> 3 is not indeterminate
2888 2011-03-25 22:45:16 <lfm> its intermediat between 2 and 200000000000000000000000000
2889 2011-03-25 22:45:36 <slush> glad to announce full support of free tx on my pool again
2890 2011-03-25 22:45:45 <slush> m0mchil's patch works very well...
2891 2011-03-25 22:45:47 <midnightmagic> 3 ∈ ℝ, too!
2892 2011-03-25 22:45:58 <ArtForz> cool
2893 2011-03-25 22:46:11 <lfm> yay slush
2894 2011-03-25 22:46:19 <kupo> lfm: pool?
2895 2011-03-25 22:46:25 <midnightmagic> slush: "free tx"?
2896 2011-03-25 22:46:40 <ArtForz> also, pretty good, as I spent more time hunting possible dealocks today than working on the new mapTransactions handling
2897 2011-03-25 22:47:11 alex5771 has quit (Quit: alex5771)
2898 2011-03-25 22:47:11 <ArtForz> *deadlocks
2899 2011-03-25 22:47:20 <slush> thanks to  incredible effort made by m0mchil, he spent really lot of time on that
2900 2011-03-25 22:47:22 <lfm> oh dyslexia attack indeterminate is not intermeidate
2901 2011-03-25 22:47:40 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4904.0
2902 2011-03-25 22:47:42 <slush> ArtForz: I'm very happy to see this 'antideadlock' movement, it's really cool
2903 2011-03-25 22:48:16 <ArtForz> we should really establish an order in which locks are to be taken
2904 2011-03-25 22:48:18 <slush> I spend many sleepless nights before I found that the problem really isn't in my code or in servers configuration...
2905 2011-03-25 22:49:28 f3n is now known as f3n|home-machine
2906 2011-03-25 22:51:04 <ArtForz> theres probably more, but statically tracing call graph between all lock-taking functions isn't exactly fun
2907 2011-03-25 22:51:54 <ArtForz> probably easier to establish lock ordering rules, put them in code and assert() them
2908 2011-03-25 22:52:19 genjix has joined
2909 2011-03-25 22:52:19 genjix has quit (Changing host)
2910 2011-03-25 22:52:19 genjix has joined
2911 2011-03-25 22:52:39 AnonX has joined
2912 2011-03-25 22:52:43 <ArtForz> WAY easier to trace an assert "tried to take lock x at file:line while holding lock y from file:line" than "shit locks up FNAR"
2913 2011-03-25 22:53:22 <LobsterMan> slush i'm writing up a guide to using your pool right now, if you would like i can provide you a link when i'm done and you can put it on your page somewhere
2914 2011-03-25 22:53:31 <LobsterMan> put a link*
2915 2011-03-25 22:53:32 <LobsterMan> ^_^
2916 2011-03-25 22:53:50 <slush> LobsterMan: cool, sure :)
2917 2011-03-25 22:54:07 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, wanted to show you this :) Because you know how terribly wrong it is. http://www.rom.by/files/rebol.jpg
2918 2011-03-25 22:54:13 <slush> I'm really bad in writing (english) text, so I appreciate any effort ;)
2919 2011-03-25 22:54:22 <LobsterMan> heh np
2920 2011-03-25 22:54:34 <ArtForz> [Tycho]: wow
2921 2011-03-25 22:54:37 <slush> midnightmagic: transactions without fees
2922 2011-03-25 22:54:44 <slush> [Tycho]: that's amazing
2923 2011-03-25 22:55:04 <ArtForz> I've seen similar monstrosities done to RE game consoles
2924 2011-03-25 22:55:34 <TD> ArtForz: i've seen some lock impls that automatically construct and enforce ordering matrices
2925 2011-03-25 22:56:01 <[Tycho]> RE ?
2926 2011-03-25 22:56:04 <LobsterMan> i can't imagine that ship is actually functional....
2927 2011-03-25 22:56:08 <LobsterMan> one messed up wire....
2928 2011-03-25 22:56:09 <ArtForz> reverse engineering
2929 2011-03-25 22:56:16 <LobsterMan> one bad lead
2930 2011-03-25 22:56:18 <LobsterMan> lol
2931 2011-03-25 22:56:30 Guest92938 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2932 2011-03-25 22:56:30 <[Tycho]> Between ROM cartridge and the console ?
2933 2011-03-25 22:56:40 <ArtForz> no, between CPU and ram
2934 2011-03-25 22:56:49 <ArtForz> has been done for example on PSP
2935 2011-03-25 22:57:22 <ArtForz> shitloads of kynar wire + FPGA playing logic analyzer
2936 2011-03-25 22:58:54 <ArtForz> and it actually worked
2937 2011-03-25 22:59:15 <ArtForz> iirc they had to slow the system clock down to about 1/2 though
2938 2011-03-25 23:00:23 antivigilante has joined
2939 2011-03-25 23:03:03 subpar_ has joined
2940 2011-03-25 23:03:10 <midnightmagic> slush: you mean payments to miners had fees associated with them before?
2941 2011-03-25 23:03:29 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2942 2011-03-25 23:05:13 xenon481 has joined
2943 2011-03-25 23:05:28 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2944 2011-03-25 23:05:38 <slush> midnightmagic: no, I mean free transactions (without fees) included into blocks
2945 2011-03-25 23:06:32 <slush> midnightmagic: oh, if you're asking if I'm paying fees for payouts - yes
2946 2011-03-25 23:06:42 <midnightmagic> i must be missing something. why is this an announcement?
2947 2011-03-25 23:07:07 <midnightmagic> don't mean to imply any rudeness..  I guess if you point me at a URL I'll go read my own lazy-ass self.
2948 2011-03-25 23:07:25 <Simon14> [Tycho]: Do you run deepbit.net?
2949 2011-03-25 23:10:23 <slush> midnightmagic: pool rejected free transactions for few days because many (spam) transactions in bitcoind blocked getwork requests
2950 2011-03-25 23:10:56 <slush> midnightmagic: with 1000 transactions in the pool the delay was sometimes few seconds
2951 2011-03-25 23:11:16 <midnightmagic> yikes.
2952 2011-03-25 23:11:49 <slush> now it looks definitely fixed
2953 2011-03-25 23:12:03 <midnightmagic> the txn spammer is gone?
2954 2011-03-25 23:12:11 <midnightmagic> or the bitcoind you run is faster?
2955 2011-03-25 23:12:12 <slush> midnightmagic: no, getwork() is non-blocking now
2956 2011-03-25 23:12:19 <midnightmagic> very nice.
2957 2011-03-25 23:12:49 <slush> transaction pool is processed in another thread, so I can accept big amount of transactions now
2958 2011-03-25 23:15:20 <CIA-96> bitcoin: phantomcircuit <phantomcircuit@covertinferno.org> sqlalchemy * rf9b5850f34bd bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/storage.py: Fixed naming issue with transactions
2959 2011-03-25 23:16:50 <Simon14> Can anyone explain the difference between pay per share and proportional (for deepbit.net)
2960 2011-03-25 23:17:18 <SykeP> free tx or not doesn't bug me. the guy generating block without ever including a single tx pisses me off: http://blockexplorer.com/b/115054
2961 2011-03-25 23:17:42 <BlueMatt> Simon14: its how much you get paid per share, on slush's pool you get slightly more per pow if its towards the end of the block calculation
2962 2011-03-25 23:17:55 <BlueMatt> Simon14: on deepbit, you get the same no matter when the pow was submitted
2963 2011-03-25 23:17:56 <jgarzik> luke-jr: use the source, Luke.
2964 2011-03-25 23:18:04 <midnightmagic> is this code you did? I don't see any getwork changes recently in the github branch..
2965 2011-03-25 23:18:24 <BlueMatt> Simon14: there is a theoretical attack against deepbit's way in which you could get more btc long-term hence slush's change to proportional
2966 2011-03-25 23:18:28 <slush> midnightmagic: m0mchil did it, search forum for his recent posts
2967 2011-03-25 23:18:45 <Simon14> BlueMatt: What would be better for me if I'm not a heavy cruncher?
2968 2011-03-25 23:18:53 <Simon14> or does it matter
2969 2011-03-25 23:18:55 <BlueMatt> Simon14: doesnt matter in the long term
2970 2011-03-25 23:19:02 <midnightmagic> k, thanks.
2971 2011-03-25 23:19:11 <Simon14> BlueMatt: Ok thanks
2972 2011-03-25 23:19:46 <xenon481> And it isn't just that a person could make more than they are supposed to with a straight shares pool, it's that that extra they make is coming out of everyone else's pocket.
2973 2011-03-25 23:21:15 <gruez> <BlueMatt> Simon14: there is a theoretical attack against deepbit's way in which you could get more btc long-term hence slush's change to proportional
2974 2011-03-25 23:21:22 <gruez> but deepbit has delayed stats, right
2975 2011-03-25 23:21:26 <gruez> so its hard to time
2976 2011-03-25 23:21:46 <BlueMatt> yes, hard to pull of because of the delayed stats, but still sort of possible
2977 2011-03-25 23:22:06 <slush> gruez: well, finding when the pool found the block is pretty easy
2978 2011-03-25 23:22:26 <gruez> how?
2979 2011-03-25 23:22:35 <gruez> when getwork() changes?
2980 2011-03-25 23:22:45 <xenon481> It's hard to time by watching the stats page, but theoretically, you could write your own miner that can watch the block stream.
2981 2011-03-25 23:23:01 <slush> a) use artforz's half-node b) connect it to few well-connected nodes (my pool?) and to deepbit c) have a fun
2982 2011-03-25 23:23:16 <gruez> lol
2983 2011-03-25 23:23:22 <gruez> how much % more would you earn?
2984 2011-03-25 23:23:45 <slush> gruez: I didn't tried it (yet), but teoretically about 20-30% on top
2985 2011-03-25 23:23:51 <gruez> sounds nice
2986 2011-03-25 23:23:51 <slush> in long term, of course
2987 2011-03-25 23:24:34 <gruez> so...
2988 2011-03-25 23:24:39 <gruez> join deepbit at start of round
2989 2011-03-25 23:24:40 <BlueMatt> win32 nightly builds up on bitcoin.bluematt.me :)
2990 2011-03-25 23:24:51 <gruez> wait until 40%
2991 2011-03-25 23:24:52 <gruez> ??/
2992 2011-03-25 23:24:53 <gruez> profit
2993 2011-03-25 23:24:56 <slush> gruez: yes
2994 2011-03-25 23:25:03 <slush> gruez: find raulo's topis on forum
2995 2011-03-25 23:25:03 <gruez> 40% of what?
2996 2011-03-25 23:25:13 <gruez> slush: i read that
2997 2011-03-25 23:25:13 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: what's the attack?
2998 2011-03-25 23:25:16 <gruez> don't get it
2999 2011-03-25 23:25:17 <gruez> :(
3000 2011-03-25 23:25:19 HarryS has quit (Quit: Äddi)
3001 2011-03-25 23:25:21 <gruez> not enough math skills
3002 2011-03-25 23:25:49 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: There is a paper about it on the forums somewhere...I never bothered to read it enough to nearly understand it
3003 2011-03-25 23:26:06 <slush> gruez: you need to have pool speed aproximation, which is there (on web site)
3004 2011-03-25 23:26:38 <gruez> so 0.4 * (average time to find block)
3005 2011-03-25 23:26:44 <slush> gruez: then you need to calculate when pool find ~2920 shares (for current difficulty)
3006 2011-03-25 23:26:53 <slush> and disconnect/reconnect to another pool at this time
3007 2011-03-25 23:27:50 <gruez> is there any reason why other pools are using share based method?
3008 2011-03-25 23:27:57 <gruez> rather than score-based?
3009 2011-03-25 23:28:07 <slush> it is easier to understand ;)
3010 2011-03-25 23:28:14 <sipa> and to implement
3011 2011-03-25 23:28:37 <BlueMatt> slush: can you explain exactly why that works?
3012 2011-03-25 23:28:58 <slush> BlueMatt: finding blocks is poisson distribution
3013 2011-03-25 23:29:08 <slush> BlueMatt: http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/graphs/
3014 2011-03-25 23:29:22 <BlueMatt> slush: yes and...?
3015 2011-03-25 23:29:27 <slush> 3rd graph - you can see that probability to find the block is higher on the round start
3016 2011-03-25 23:29:42 <BlueMatt> oh...ok
3017 2011-03-25 23:29:45 <BlueMatt> I get it
3018 2011-03-25 23:30:18 <xenon481> well..... that's not entirely right.
3019 2011-03-25 23:30:23 <xenon481> But it gets the point across
3020 2011-03-25 23:30:27 <slush> :)
3021 2011-03-25 23:30:27 <gruez> wait, i still dont get it
3022 2011-03-25 23:30:33 <BlueMatt> xenon481: why?
3023 2011-03-25 23:30:34 <gruez> if i monitor the block count
3024 2011-03-25 23:30:42 <gruez> how would i know if deepbit found that block or not?
3025 2011-03-25 23:30:53 <xenon481> Probability to find a block is the exacty same no matter when you are working it.
3026 2011-03-25 23:30:55 <xenon481> But.
3027 2011-03-25 23:31:01 <slush> it's also about price of share in the time etc, I'm too lazy to explain it completely :)
3028 2011-03-25 23:31:14 <xelister> xenon481: yea its a mind funck to understand ;)
3029 2011-03-25 23:31:15 <xelister> so basically
3030 2011-03-25 23:31:23 <slush> Read Raulo paper and the discossion, I think it is explained well there
3031 2011-03-25 23:31:35 <xenon481> There are X number of shares that are essentially not worth finding a block.
3032 2011-03-25 23:31:44 <xelister> if given block is being pool-mined too long it is become more and more worthless because the 50 btc will have to be diluted too much between so many people working so much on given block?
3033 2011-03-25 23:32:01 <xenon481> The old shares don't help you find a block, not matter how many old shares you have.
3034 2011-03-25 23:32:22 <xelister> slush:  does this 1 sentance sum it all up?  -> if given block is being pool-mined too long it is become more and more worthless because the 50 btc will have to be diluted too much between so many people working so much on given block?
3035 2011-03-25 23:32:46 <slush> xelister: uhm, may be
3036 2011-03-25 23:32:49 <xenon481> But in a straight share based payment system, new shares are in total worth less money the longer the round has gone on because they are adding to the denominator.
3037 2011-03-25 23:32:49 * xelister :like-a-boss: Master of making things easy.
3038 2011-03-25 23:33:16 <xenon481> xelister: Exactly
3039 2011-03-25 23:33:28 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: All I can find is this: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4787.msg69890#msg69890 Which describes a complicated way of counting shares. I presume from the paper that submitting a whole pile of results near the end of the expected time of the round will unfairly increase your share in the reward.
3040 2011-03-25 23:33:40 <slush> xelister: in share based model, in long round the payment for one submitted block is lower than in short round
3041 2011-03-25 23:33:46 <alias420> but should previous attempts at generating a block together not be rewarded?
3042 2011-03-25 23:34:03 <midnightmagic> but..  it's only unfair if the total number of shares is not counted linearly over the entire round. so my question I guess then becomes, why isn't it counted as a straight ratio of total shares?
3043 2011-03-25 23:34:05 <alias420> why should someone new not have to be diluted by the efforts of those before them?
3044 2011-03-25 23:34:37 <alias420> are you talking about slush's pool?
3045 2011-03-25 23:35:06 <slush> I become lost in this discussion O:-)
3046 2011-03-25 23:35:08 <midnightmagic> no, I'm talking about BlueMatt's assertion that there's an attack against pool mining which nets more btc, except against deepbit.
3047 2011-03-25 23:35:27 <BlueMatt> no it works against depbit
3048 2011-03-25 23:35:31 <BlueMatt> not against slush's pool
3049 2011-03-25 23:35:36 <xenon481> alias420: The point of the scoring systems is to try and approximate your payouts to be as close to your expected solo (minus fees) payout as possible. No more, no less.
3050 2011-03-25 23:35:37 <alias420> you mean pool jumping?
3051 2011-03-25 23:35:52 <BlueMatt> alias420: yes
3052 2011-03-25 23:35:59 <alias420> xenon481: I know this
3053 2011-03-25 23:36:06 <slush> there is only one known attack which affect all current pools - sabotage
3054 2011-03-25 23:36:39 <alias420> yeah I think I made a few extra btc's jumping around a few pools
3055 2011-03-25 23:36:44 <slush> you can submit shares with low difficulty, but keep full difficulty shares out
3056 2011-03-25 23:36:46 <alias420> got lucky
3057 2011-03-25 23:36:52 <alias420> with my timing
3058 2011-03-25 23:37:06 <alias420> was in on a coupld low share rounds
3059 2011-03-25 23:37:08 <slush> alias420: yes, it can be luck, but it's hard to find a rule :)
3060 2011-03-25 23:37:29 <alias420> well I would start to approach it much like a blackjack team
3061 2011-03-25 23:37:34 <midnightmagic> slush: but pool work has wrong nonce etc so the user's not gaining extra..?
3062 2011-03-25 23:37:42 <[Tycho]> :)
3063 2011-03-25 23:37:43 <alias420> monitoring the pools history
3064 2011-03-25 23:37:44 <LobsterMan> slush is your pool still using diff of 32 for each miner's blocks?
3065 2011-03-25 23:37:55 <alias420> and estimating when a pool is hot
3066 2011-03-25 23:38:05 <slush> midnightmagic: saboteur didn't do anything extra, but hurt other people
3067 2011-03-25 23:38:11 <xenon481> midnightmagic: Right, the sabotaging miner doesn't gain anything extra, but he hurts the others in the pool.
3068 2011-03-25 23:38:18 <slush> LobsterMan: pool is still working on diff 1 shares
3069 2011-03-25 23:38:23 <alias420> jumping around with your big player ghps machine on hot pools
3070 2011-03-25 23:38:23 <LobsterMan> ah ok
3071 2011-03-25 23:38:29 <LobsterMan> i don't know where i got 32 from
3072 2011-03-25 23:38:35 <midnightmagic> so..  where's the part where the attacker gets more btc when taking advantage of deepbit?
3073 2011-03-25 23:38:53 <xenon481> midnightmagic: By using the pool-hopping attack.
3074 2011-03-25 23:39:05 <slush> LobsterMan: initially there was 'difficulty 32' on the pool site, but it was something else
3075 2011-03-25 23:39:11 <slush> LobsterMan: pool ever worked on difficulty 1
3076 2011-03-25 23:39:20 <LobsterMan> ok i'm just trying to make sure i am correct in my explanations here
3077 2011-03-25 23:39:28 <[Tycho]> Initially i expected someone to implement Raulo's attack very fast.
3078 2011-03-25 23:39:29 <midnightmagic> http://www.bitcoinminer.com/post/2912475538/mining-pool-study <-- this?
3079 2011-03-25 23:39:56 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
3080 2011-03-25 23:39:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115065 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1862 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 14 hours, 59 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 84432.29063458
3081 2011-03-25 23:39:59 <midnightmagic> i get it now.
3082 2011-03-25 23:40:15 wolfspraul has joined
3083 2011-03-25 23:40:18 <alias420> Slush why dont you show live stats?
3084 2011-03-25 23:40:32 <alias420> like bitcoinpool.com
3085 2011-03-25 23:40:37 <slush> alias420: I implemented 30 second cache to save server resources
3086 2011-03-25 23:40:53 <slush> alias420: it is not fun when 1000 people is pressing F5 to see moving share count ;)
3087 2011-03-25 23:41:17 <alias420> your web server can't handle that?
3088 2011-03-25 23:41:37 <Validus> you dont realize how much that really does
3089 2011-03-25 23:41:42 <slush> alias420: my web server isn't google analytics, it is bitcoin pool
3090 2011-03-25 23:42:04 <alias420> google analytics isn't a webserver
3091 2011-03-25 23:42:08 <Validus> that is intensive on a server
3092 2011-03-25 23:42:16 <alias420> you running apache?
3093 2011-03-25 23:42:36 <alias420> lol I run high volume webservers is why I ask
3094 2011-03-25 23:42:38 overtorque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3095 2011-03-25 23:42:45 <alias420> perhaps it could be easily tweaked
3096 2011-03-25 23:42:45 <slush> alias420: nginx
3097 2011-03-25 23:42:45 Beremat has joined
3098 2011-03-25 23:42:52 <slush> alias420: but where's the point?
3099 2011-03-25 23:43:06 <alias420> well I'm just wondering what kind of setup you are using
3100 2011-03-25 23:43:22 <[Tycho]> alias420, watch the headers :)
3101 2011-03-25 23:43:25 <slush> I'm considering stats broadcasting, but definitely not removing the cache
3102 2011-03-25 23:43:28 <alias420> and why the estimates are always slow
3103 2011-03-25 23:43:53 <alias420> tycho headers can be made to say anything
3104 2011-03-25 23:43:53 <curiositysquared> How is total network hash rate calculated?
3105 2011-03-25 23:44:09 <curiositysquared> does every client report how many hashes it's doing? Or is that an estimate?
3106 2011-03-25 23:44:12 <slush> alias420: I can say you anything, too ;)
3107 2011-03-25 23:44:16 <sipa> curiositysquared: no
3108 2011-03-25 23:44:28 <[Tycho]> At least you need to recompile apache to change it's "Server" header.
3109 2011-03-25 23:44:37 <curiositysquared> sipa, no to both?
3110 2011-03-25 23:44:40 <[Tycho]> it can't be altered in any other way
3111 2011-03-25 23:44:45 <slush> maybe I'm using IIS on win 2000 :)
3112 2011-03-25 23:44:46 <sipa> curiositysquared: which estimate are you referring to?
3113 2011-03-25 23:44:56 <alias420> maybe you are
3114 2011-03-25 23:45:01 <[Tycho]> slus, oh, you too :)
3115 2011-03-25 23:45:05 <curiositysquared> Network total0.565 Thash/s
3116 2011-03-25 23:45:06 <slush> ;)
3117 2011-03-25 23:45:07 <[Tycho]> *slush
3118 2011-03-25 23:45:15 <xenon481> curiosity: That is a luck meter.
3119 2011-03-25 23:45:33 <curiositysquared> ok. that's what I thought.
3120 2011-03-25 23:45:37 <xenon481> It is an estimate based upon how many shares are being submitted over time.
3121 2011-03-25 23:45:45 <curiositysquared> it's block rates per hour... yeah
3122 2011-03-25 23:45:45 <sipa> not shares, blocks
3123 2011-03-25 23:45:55 <sipa> shares are only for pools
3124 2011-03-25 23:46:10 <xenon481> oh, sory, that one. I was thinking the pool hash meter.
3125 2011-03-25 23:46:45 <sipa> but the idea is the same: use some window of blocks and look at their average timing
3126 2011-03-25 23:47:00 <curiositysquared> anyone know off the top of their head approximately how many blocks have to be watched to get like a 95% confidence on the actual hash rate?
3127 2011-03-25 23:47:12 <sipa> curiositysquared: you can't
3128 2011-03-25 23:47:19 <sipa> because the hash rate changes all the time
3129 2011-03-25 23:47:41 <sipa> but it would be interested to know how many you need to get a 95% guess *given that the hash rate is constant*
3130 2011-03-25 23:47:49 <slush> 1130 transactions in bitcoind's memorypool and without any getwork troubles, yay!
3131 2011-03-25 23:47:57 <lfm> prehaps if you defined "actual hash rate" very carefully
3132 2011-03-25 23:48:03 <curiositysquared> Right. but if you modle it as simple poisson process you'll get a very good picture.
3133 2011-03-25 23:48:26 <kupo> lfm: what pool should I use?
3134 2011-03-25 23:48:38 <lfm> I wouldnt
3135 2011-03-25 23:48:39 <curiositysquared> simply looking at the last 5 blocks or something naive like that (I don't know what is currently being done) would be very naive.
3136 2011-03-25 23:48:49 <kupo> lfm: why not?
3137 2011-03-25 23:48:49 <sipa> curiositysquared: my graphs on http://http://bitcoin.sipa.be use an exponential window estimate + some extrapolation after fitting a growth function
3138 2011-03-25 23:49:00 <slush> kupo: slush's is the best
3139 2011-03-25 23:49:01 <lfm> I like to solo
3140 2011-03-25 23:49:07 <slush> :))
3141 2011-03-25 23:49:16 <alias420> haha
3142 2011-03-25 23:49:16 <[Tycho]> kupo, http://deepbit.net
3143 2011-03-25 23:49:17 <kupo> slush: but you are slush
3144 2011-03-25 23:49:25 <slush> really? Damn!
3145 2011-03-25 23:49:25 <alias420> how much you making in fees per day slush?
3146 2011-03-25 23:49:26 <BlueMatt> kupo: I like slush's
3147 2011-03-25 23:49:34 <kupo> can someone belong to more than one pool at a time?
3148 2011-03-25 23:49:37 <alias420> I mean tx fees
3149 2011-03-25 23:49:45 <sipa> kupo: you could switch pools yes
3150 2011-03-25 23:49:48 <lfm> kupo ya but it wouldnt help you
3151 2011-03-25 23:49:48 <slush> alias420: I didn't calculated that yet
3152 2011-03-25 23:49:56 <[Tycho]> kupo, yes, if you have two+ GPUs.
3153 2011-03-25 23:50:15 <slush> alias420: as I'm spending fees on payout distribution and I'm also including those transactions back in own blocks, it is not so easy ;)
3154 2011-03-25 23:50:43 <alias420> yeah I started to think about that
3155 2011-03-25 23:50:51 <alias420> do you need to pay fees?
3156 2011-03-25 23:51:11 <lfm> only cuz people are impatient
3157 2011-03-25 23:51:12 <alias420> couldn't you harvest the strength of your cloud to generate your own blocks with no fees?
3158 2011-03-25 23:51:40 <xenon481> Slush: Is it possible to "hand pick" (via program) specific free transactions out of the transaction pool and put them into your block?
3159 2011-03-25 23:51:55 <slush> alias420: users had problems with long unconfirmed payouts, so I decided to do that as "extra service".
3160 2011-03-25 23:52:04 <alias420> ahh
3161 2011-03-25 23:52:06 <lfm> xenon481: it would be "posible" with custom software
3162 2011-03-25 23:52:06 <alias420> very nice of you
3163 2011-03-25 23:52:31 <slush> xenon481: yes, it is possible. bitcoind already has this feature included, own txes are free when you mine it to your own block
3164 2011-03-25 23:52:34 <alias420> I wonder if it pays for itself in the long run with the volume you do
3165 2011-03-25 23:52:42 <alias420> processing your own fees
3166 2011-03-25 23:52:43 <slush> xenon481: but I'm using many bitcoind instances and the accounting one isn't mining ;)
3167 2011-03-25 23:53:17 <midnightmagic> i'm pretty sure that paper is wrong.
3168 2011-03-25 23:53:32 <lfm> which paper?
3169 2011-03-25 23:53:37 <xenon481> hahahaha.
3170 2011-03-25 23:53:43 * jgarzik is thinking about a daily payout by default (sendmany), but offer user option to pay 0.01 fee for immediate withdraw
3171 2011-03-25 23:53:45 <slush> xenon481: of course it can be hacked that all bitcoind accepts payments of each other, but it needs non-trivial hack (at least for me)
3172 2011-03-25 23:53:59 <midnightmagic> lfm: the one about the pool miner strategies and network switching.
3173 2011-03-25 23:54:27 <slush> jgarzik: in your pool?
3174 2011-03-25 23:54:28 <midnightmagic> http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/111 <-- this one. "pool_strategies.pdf"
3175 2011-03-25 23:55:02 <jgarzik> slush: yes
3176 2011-03-25 23:55:05 <[Tycho]> Raulo's ?
3177 2011-03-25 23:55:16 <slush> jgarzik: I thought about the same idea, but decided to set fees also for standard sendmany payouts
3178 2011-03-25 23:55:20 <lfm> midnightmagic: ya its hard to see how it works intuitivly but I think it is right.
3179 2011-03-25 23:55:27 <sipa> i'm quite sure it is right
3180 2011-03-25 23:55:29 <xenon481> What about Raulo's pool hopping paper do you think is wrong?
3181 2011-03-25 23:55:30 <midnightmagic> Nakamoto Ry
3182 2011-03-25 23:55:37 <slush> it's pretty cheap as sendmany is very compressed way to send money
3183 2011-03-25 23:55:41 <jgarzik> slush: I pay fee for sendmany payout too, but do not deduct that from user's account.  I eat that.
3184 2011-03-25 23:55:45 <jgarzik> yes
3185 2011-03-25 23:56:15 <slush> jgarzik: I'm not taking the fees from the rewards, of course
3186 2011-03-25 23:56:58 <alias420> have there been any pool poisoning attacks before?
3187 2011-03-25 23:57:07 <xenon481> midnightmagic: It works similarly in your head if you think of it like the Monty Hall problem.
3188 2011-03-25 23:57:19 <slush> looks like era of high block fees is on the end, at least for some time :)
3189 2011-03-25 23:57:32 <slush> block 115069 - no fee :'(
3190 2011-03-25 23:57:33 <x420024x> has anyone tested that papaer to see if pool hoping really works the way that he claims it does?
3191 2011-03-25 23:57:40 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3192 2011-03-25 23:57:45 <alias420> I suppose sabotaging the competition would be the next course of action when one has maxed out their ghps resources
3193 2011-03-25 23:57:54 <slush> x420024x: there are simulation done by raulo
3194 2011-03-25 23:58:00 <x420024x> I don't understand how that could get more for me than just sticking it out in a pool
3195 2011-03-25 23:58:16 <slush> alias420: that's the reason why I don't support PPS
3196 2011-03-25 23:58:20 <alias420> slush: is that because difficulty went down, dropping kb size?
3197 2011-03-25 23:58:43 <alias420> but how does one currently poison a pool?
3198 2011-03-25 23:58:46 <midnightmagic> the Monty Hall problem has to do with a door being revealed; switching means your gains from the prior pool begin to shrink as a ratio of the whole. additionally, the monty hall problem has to do with foreknowledge of what's behind the doors. i'm pretty sure it doesn't apply here.
3199 2011-03-25 23:58:48 <alias420> can you corrupt it?
3200 2011-03-25 23:58:51 <alias420> or slow it down?
3201 2011-03-25 23:58:52 <slush> alias420: afaik difficulty does not affect block size :)
3202 2011-03-25 23:59:11 <x420024x> a simulation?  Forgive me, but simulations are not the real deal are they?
3203 2011-03-25 23:59:29 <slush> x420024x: this is the math, you don't need to try it to be sure it works
3204 2011-03-25 23:59:40 subpar_ is now known as subpar
3205 2011-03-25 23:59:47 <xenon481> Midnightmagic: But you do have foreknowledge of what is behind the doors. You KNOW with certainty that the doors that have already been opened do not contain the prize and never did.
3206 2011-03-25 23:59:54 subpar has quit (Changing host)
3207 2011-03-25 23:59:54 subpar has joined
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