1 2011-03-26 00:00:06 <midnightmagic> slush: the paper proceeds in part from measurements, not from math.
   2 2011-03-26 00:00:23 <alias420> midnight: I think you are correct but perhaps the odds of the what is  behind the door can be predicted
   3 2011-03-26 00:00:29 <x420024x> exactly
   4 2011-03-26 00:00:42 <x420024x> his numbers dont seem to be hard numbers
   5 2011-03-26 00:00:53 <BlueMatt> binaries with UPnP support and other various goodies (patched) up for win32 and linux :)
   6 2011-03-26 00:00:59 <midnightmagic> xenon481: no, because you know the total quantity of doors in monty hall. you don't know the total quantity of doors left in share mining.
   7 2011-03-26 00:01:23 <alias420> dont you?
   8 2011-03-26 00:01:35 <alias420> can't you make an estimate
   9 2011-03-26 00:01:39 <alias420> based on previous history
  10 2011-03-26 00:01:45 glassresistor has joined
  11 2011-03-26 00:01:46 <alias420> current network state
  12 2011-03-26 00:01:53 <x420024x> their are an infinite number number of doors according to what I was told just a few days ago in this channnel.
  13 2011-03-26 00:01:58 <xenon481> alias420: He is correct, you do not. The problem space is infinite so long as blocks are still being solved.
  14 2011-03-26 00:02:05 <midnightmagic> before i lodge my foot firmly into my own mouth, i'm going to need to think more about this paper. but i'm confident it's wrong, at least for its own reasoning.
  15 2011-03-26 00:02:28 <midnightmagic> the conclusion might be accurate, though.
  16 2011-03-26 00:02:44 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  17 2011-03-26 00:02:45 <slush> midnightmagic: well, I solved it for some time, I discussed it with many people much smarter that I'm and I'm sure that pool switching is profitable
  18 2011-03-26 00:02:55 <x420024x> i agree with midnight on this.  That paper doesn't seem 100%, and without a real world trial run to prove it I just dont buy it.
  19 2011-03-26 00:03:02 <xenon481> When I say that you can think about it as similar to the monty hall problem, I'm not saying that the same logic works in exactly the same way for predicting where you can better find the prize.
  20 2011-03-26 00:03:13 <alias420> but what about  the history of a round duration and share sizes for the round?
  21 2011-03-26 00:03:16 <midnightmagic> slush: are your discussions private?
  22 2011-03-26 00:03:21 <alias420> surely tracking that can help predict
  23 2011-03-26 00:03:36 <slush> there was a bounty for me from one person to show that switching really works
  24 2011-03-26 00:03:39 <slush> 1000 BTC was in the game
  25 2011-03-26 00:03:46 <midnightmagic> very nice..!
  26 2011-03-26 00:03:50 <slush> I rejected to fake my own pool :-D
  27 2011-03-26 00:03:51 <alias420> I mean I can tell you that slush's rounds will be under an hour most likely
  28 2011-03-26 00:04:36 theorbtwo has joined
  29 2011-03-26 00:04:44 <x420024x> if you are sure it worked, why not collect that 1000 btc then?
  30 2011-03-26 00:04:50 <slush> s/fake/cheat/
  31 2011-03-26 00:04:55 <x420024x> i would have had i know about it.
  32 2011-03-26 00:05:20 <slush> the person then accept the fact that the cheating is possible
  33 2011-03-26 00:05:32 <midnightmagic> i think showing that switching works requires a proof, not evidence, since you might just be surfing a probability curve.
  34 2011-03-26 00:05:40 <x420024x> but I'm still not certain his paper is 100% spot on
  35 2011-03-26 00:05:45 <xenon481> The point is that you know that while you are staying within one share-based pool, the total income per share you submit per round goes down with every share submitted for the round. This makes each share you submit in that round have less value to you.
  36 2011-03-26 00:06:03 <xenon481> So long as you always stay in that pool 100% of the time, it all evens out over time.
  37 2011-03-26 00:06:09 <xenon481> as you will have short rounds and long rounds.
  38 2011-03-26 00:06:35 <alias420> midnight: why are you dismissing using past solved block round duration history to aid in prediciting future pool rounds?
  39 2011-03-26 00:06:57 <xenon481> But you can cut your diminishing returns by swapping out of a long round into a currently short round in a different pool.
  40 2011-03-26 00:07:23 <xenon481> Thus reducing the average length of rounds that you have participated in.
  41 2011-03-26 00:07:30 <alias420> as a black jack card counter I can tell you riding waves of probability works
  42 2011-03-26 00:07:30 <midnightmagic> alias420: because sha256 is considered to have a random distribution
  43 2011-03-26 00:07:36 <midnightmagic> anyway, i'll stop now, since i think i've sparked something by accident.
  44 2011-03-26 00:08:13 <alias420> but what isnt' random is the pool size
  45 2011-03-26 00:08:43 <alias420> there is a calculator that helps predict how long this stuff will take
  46 2011-03-26 00:08:55 <alias420> just based on the current diff
  47 2011-03-26 00:09:11 <alias420> if you can add in a few more vairables and home that down a little more
  48 2011-03-26 00:09:26 <x420024x> hey alias420: I love me some roulette
  49 2011-03-26 00:09:41 <alias420> the distrobution may be random but the mining efforts is what is being gamed
  50 2011-03-26 00:09:48 <x420024x> I usually spend out 4 hours at a table, and walk away a winner every time
  51 2011-03-26 00:09:51 <alias420> roulette
  52 2011-03-26 00:09:55 <alias420> pick a color
  53 2011-03-26 00:09:59 <alias420> wait for it
  54 2011-03-26 00:10:04 <x420024x> neg, play 2 columns.
  55 2011-03-26 00:10:05 <alias420> only once it has landed
  56 2011-03-26 00:10:08 <alias420> bet it again
  57 2011-03-26 00:10:13 <alias420> ride the streak
  58 2011-03-26 00:10:20 <alias420> play the odds
  59 2011-03-26 00:10:29 <midnightmagic> the gambler's fallacy is a powerful cognitive bias, for sure.
  60 2011-03-26 00:10:46 <alias420> lol
  61 2011-03-26 00:11:47 Teslah has joined
  62 2011-03-26 00:12:02 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  63 2011-03-26 00:12:43 fabianhjr has joined
  64 2011-03-26 00:12:50 <xenon481> so long as the mins and maxes are wide enough, then just do the doubling method.
  65 2011-03-26 00:13:35 <xenon481> Bet 1 on a 50/50 (or as close as you can get). If you lose, bet 1 again and then keep doubling until you win. You will end up even for that round.
  66 2011-03-26 00:13:55 <xenon481> If you won on the beginning, then you won 1 for that round.
  67 2011-03-26 00:14:05 <xenon481> Hope you don't reach the table max.
  68 2011-03-26 00:14:10 <xenon481> then you lose big.
  69 2011-03-26 00:15:17 <lfm> sure, walk away a winner 35 outa 36 times and only lose big once
  70 2011-03-26 00:16:16 <alias420> haha
  71 2011-03-26 00:16:41 <xenon481> so long as there was no table max and you had an effectively infinite bankroll, you would bankrupt the casino.
  72 2011-03-26 00:16:57 <xenon481> But that's why there are table maxes.
  73 2011-03-26 00:17:30 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  74 2011-03-26 00:18:19 <tcatm> Is there an iPhone that displays market data?
  75 2011-03-26 00:18:28 <alias420> lol
  76 2011-03-26 00:18:34 <alias420> yeah
  77 2011-03-26 00:18:42 <alias420> all of em
  78 2011-03-26 00:18:52 <alias420> just open safari
  79 2011-03-26 00:19:01 <alias420> and go to the market webpage
  80 2011-03-26 00:19:07 <xenon481> There is a built-in Stocks app.
  81 2011-03-26 00:19:30 <alias420> is bitcoin trading on the NASDAQ yet?
  82 2011-03-26 00:19:30 <tcatm> Nothing bitcoin related?
  83 2011-03-26 00:19:34 kenn has joined
  84 2011-03-26 00:19:39 Shady__ has joined
  85 2011-03-26 00:20:02 Shady__ has quit (Client Quit)
  86 2011-03-26 00:20:28 AnonX has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  87 2011-03-26 00:21:16 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  88 2011-03-26 00:22:34 <lfm> alias never will be on nasdaq I think. more like on a commodities market or a currencies market
  89 2011-03-26 00:24:50 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
  90 2011-03-26 00:25:12 <midnightmagic> tcatm: there are lots of half-formed ideas on the drawing boards, but with the irritating $99 fee for ios dev "rights" to stuff code on your iphone for a year, i refuse to pay the Steve Jobs overlord tax.
  91 2011-03-26 00:26:09 bitcoiner has joined
  92 2011-03-26 00:29:37 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  93 2011-03-26 00:30:00 Raulo has joined
  94 2011-03-26 00:30:21 <midnightmagic> you have a keyword checker running against the channel log don't you? :)
  95 2011-03-26 00:30:36 <xenon481> Haha, speak of the devil.
  96 2011-03-26 00:31:45 <midnightmagic> my objection to what i think is your pool-jumping paper is half-formed and too full of intuition for me to be anything but embarrassed to present it to you, if that's why you've showed up. :)
  97 2011-03-26 00:31:46 <Raulo> x420024x: If you don't trust the math, here is a code that simulates the pool hopping: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3165.msg44514#msg44514
  98 2011-03-26 00:31:52 <midnightmagic> ahj
  99 2011-03-26 00:31:58 <midnightmagic> yay it wasn't for me this time.
 100 2011-03-26 00:32:39 <slush> Raulo: hello!
 101 2011-03-26 00:33:14 <Raulo> Hello.
 102 2011-03-26 00:34:17 <midnightmagic> Raulo: oh, wait, you're a different person than Ryo aren't you?
 103 2011-03-26 00:34:39 <Raulo> I am different
 104 2011-03-26 00:34:45 <midnightmagic> my mistake, sorry
 105 2011-03-26 00:35:37 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 106 2011-03-26 00:36:15 kenn has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 107 2011-03-26 00:36:29 <Raulo> Ryo's paper is rather ambiguous. I did the proofs
 108 2011-03-26 00:37:59 <luke-jr> I wonder if there would be any opposition to increasing the maximum BTC ever?
 109 2011-03-26 00:38:12 <midnightmagic> proofs by the awk scripts, or formal proofs? did you publish them somewhere?
 110 2011-03-26 00:38:24 <luke-jr> I'm thinking 24.75 million BTC, not much more
 111 2011-03-26 00:38:33 <Raulo> midnightmagic: http://bitcoin.atspace.com/poolcheating.pdf
 112 2011-03-26 00:38:59 overtorque has joined
 113 2011-03-26 00:39:14 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 114 2011-03-26 00:41:22 larsivi has joined
 115 2011-03-26 00:42:18 * da2ce7 is looking for a coder that has python, django, understands accounting and transactions exprence, will pay BTC
 116 2011-03-26 00:42:38 <jgarzik> da2ce7: talk to tcatm
 117 2011-03-26 00:42:51 <da2ce7> lol
 118 2011-03-26 00:42:52 <jgarzik> da2ce7: he did a django+bitcoin website for me
 119 2011-03-26 00:43:00 <jgarzik> ?
 120 2011-03-26 00:43:26 <tcatm> I'm already working on that project and we need a second coder.
 121 2011-03-26 00:43:33 <da2ce7> jagarzik, i'm looking for a sub coder fot tcatm
 122 2011-03-26 00:43:37 <midnightmagic> dangit Raulo, you're using weird letters for your variables. :)
 123 2011-03-26 00:44:30 <jgarzik> ah ok :)
 124 2011-03-26 00:44:58 <Raulo> midnightmagic: in the code or in the paper?
 125 2011-03-26 00:46:01 HarryS has joined
 126 2011-03-26 00:46:05 <midnightmagic> :-) the paper. you're using symbols I personally more frequently attribute to physics problems involving frequencies. :)
 127 2011-03-26 00:46:35 <midnightmagic> don't mind me, i'm just distracting myself.
 128 2011-03-26 00:49:54 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 129 2011-03-26 00:50:16 <midnightmagic> S(λ,x)=λ/(λ+y) (5), did you mean x, and not y?
 130 2011-03-26 00:50:32 <jgarzik> da2ce7: you misspelled "hiring" in your forum post title
 131 2011-03-26 00:50:42 <midnightmagic> really loving my compose key.. ♥
 132 2011-03-26 00:51:03 * da2ce7 thinks that he is embarased...
 133 2011-03-26 00:52:54 <Raulo> midnightmagic: yes. And the same typo is in Eq. (7). I'll upload a corrected version
 134 2011-03-26 00:53:33 <midnightmagic> okay. i assumed so. thank you.
 135 2011-03-26 00:54:47 overtorque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 136 2011-03-26 00:55:54 larsivi has joined
 137 2011-03-26 00:56:05 overtorque has joined
 138 2011-03-26 00:57:14 <glassresistor> im trying to run minerd but it keeps giving json errors, no clue why
 139 2011-03-26 00:58:11 <jgarzik> that's a bit vague :)
 140 2011-03-26 00:58:18 <[Tycho]> Are you using correct URL ?
 141 2011-03-26 00:58:57 unping has joined
 142 2011-03-26 01:02:04 <Raulo> midnightmagic: I've got to go. If you have some further comments, write them in  the "Optimal pool abuse strategy" thread
 143 2011-03-26 01:02:18 <glassresistor> i believe so
 144 2011-03-26 01:02:21 <midnightmagic> Raulo: ah goodness, I hope you weren't waiting for me to grok your paper and provide comments.. :(
 145 2011-03-26 01:02:24 <midnightmagic> Raulo: but thank you.
 146 2011-03-26 01:02:27 <midnightmagic> i will
 147 2011-03-26 01:02:51 <glassresistor> http://mining.bitcoin.cz
 148 2011-03-26 01:03:06 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:00:40] JSON decode failed(1): '[' or '{' expected near '<'
 149 2011-03-26 01:03:09 <lfm> glassresistor: maybe userpass error
 150 2011-03-26 01:03:11 <glassresistor> is my error
 151 2011-03-26 01:04:02 <glassresistor> nope, atleast i don't think so
 152 2011-03-26 01:04:10 <glassresistor> im copy and pasting them
 153 2011-03-26 01:04:46 <lfm> k remove the "<" ?
 154 2011-03-26 01:05:22 <glassresistor> im not including a <
 155 2011-03-26 01:05:27 <glassresistor> < HTTP/1.1 200 OK
 156 2011-03-26 01:05:27 <glassresistor> < Server: nginx/0.7.65
 157 2011-03-26 01:05:27 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Server): nginx/0.7.65
 158 2011-03-26 01:05:27 <glassresistor> < Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:03:36 GMT
 159 2011-03-26 01:05:27 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Date): Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:03:36 GMT
 160 2011-03-26 01:05:29 <glassresistor> < Content-Type: text/html
 161 2011-03-26 01:05:32 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Content-Type): text/html
 162 2011-03-26 01:05:34 <glassresistor> < Transfer-Encoding: chunked
 163 2011-03-26 01:05:37 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Transfer-Encoding): chunked
 164 2011-03-26 01:05:39 <glassresistor> < Connection: keep-alive
 165 2011-03-26 01:05:42 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Connection): keep-alive
 166 2011-03-26 01:05:44 <glassresistor> < Content-Encoding: gzip
 167 2011-03-26 01:05:47 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Content-Encoding): gzip
 168 2011-03-26 01:05:49 <glassresistor> <
 169 2011-03-26 01:05:52 <glassresistor> * Connection #0 to host mining.bitcoin.cz left intact
 170 2011-03-26 01:05:53 <lfm> wtf
 171 2011-03-26 01:05:54 <glassresistor> sorry for the spam
 172 2011-03-26 01:05:57 <glassresistor> that was suppose to go on pasted but thats what i got
 173 2011-03-26 01:06:06 <glassresistor> thats what im getting back
 174 2011-03-26 01:06:20 <lfm> wrong port?
 175 2011-03-26 01:06:29 * da2ce7 wishes he was better at spelling.
 176 2011-03-26 01:06:40 TheKid has joined
 177 2011-03-26 01:06:40 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
 178 2011-03-26 01:06:40 TheKid has joined
 179 2011-03-26 01:06:46 <jgarzik> lfm: I bet that's it...
 180 2011-03-26 01:06:54 <da2ce7> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4739.msg72508#msg72508
 181 2011-03-26 01:07:02 <da2ce7> well boys, have a look
 182 2011-03-26 01:07:13 <Diablo-D3> YOUR MOTHHEERRRRRRR
 183 2011-03-26 01:07:20 <glassresistor> yeah its the default port must bebusted
 184 2011-03-26 01:07:42 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: you couldnt afford me anyhow
 185 2011-03-26 01:07:48 <lfm> ya if you specify the host you need the port too
 186 2011-03-26 01:08:37 <xenon481> My services are typically sold at $2,000USD per day.
 187 2011-03-26 01:08:55 <lfm> are you a hooker?
 188 2011-03-26 01:09:04 SanguineRose has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 189 2011-03-26 01:09:05 * da2ce7 isn't that rich.
 190 2011-03-26 01:09:08 <glassresistor> da2ce7: im have the experience and write code and docs everyday
 191 2011-03-26 01:09:09 <Diablo-D3> jesus, you could hire at least 10 of me at xenon's prices
 192 2011-03-26 01:09:39 <xenon481> I personally don't rake that full $2000/day, but that is what my company charges our customers when I'm on site.
 193 2011-03-26 01:10:10 TheKid has left ()
 194 2011-03-26 01:10:28 <Diablo-D3> actually, about 8 of me
 195 2011-03-26 01:11:01 <x420024x> The Lightfoot Hosting node is not responsive.
 196 2011-03-26 01:11:01 <x420024x> It says on the wiki: "Add the command-line parameter: -addnode=173.242.112.53"
 197 2011-03-26 01:11:02 <x420024x> but port 8333 on 173.242.112.53 is closed.
 198 2011-03-26 01:11:10 <alias420> $2000 for a days work is decent
 199 2011-03-26 01:11:23 soultcer has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 200 2011-03-26 01:11:29 <x420024x> "8333/tcp filtered"
 201 2011-03-26 01:11:36 <alias420> $2000 for doing nothing is better :)
 202 2011-03-26 01:11:50 soultcer has joined
 203 2011-03-26 01:11:55 <x420024x> that should say open, so since it is closed, that means that nobody can use it right now, correct?
 204 2011-03-26 01:12:09 <x420024x> s/closed/filtered/
 205 2011-03-26 01:12:15 SanguineRose has joined
 206 2011-03-26 01:12:39 Omni has quit (AFK!~hopper@attic.omnifarious.org|Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 207 2011-03-26 01:14:53 Lachesis has joined
 208 2011-03-26 01:15:05 Lachesis has left ()
 209 2011-03-26 01:15:08 Lachesis has joined
 210 2011-03-26 01:15:29 <Lachesis> can I use the RPC method 'sendmany' with the default account?
 211 2011-03-26 01:15:41 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 212 2011-03-26 01:16:57 <[Tycho]> "[2011-02-25 21:00:40] JSON decode failed(1): '[' or '{' expected near '<'" - looks like someone is trying to parse HTML as JSON.
 213 2011-03-26 01:17:27 <slush> [Tycho]: that's from the forum?
 214 2011-03-26 01:17:42 <[Tycho]> From forum too.
 215 2011-03-26 01:17:58 <[Tycho]> It's glassresistor
 216 2011-03-26 01:17:59 osmosis_ has joined
 217 2011-03-26 01:18:09 osmosis_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 218 2011-03-26 01:18:26 <[Tycho]> That's why i told you about returning correct content-type header :)
 219 2011-03-26 01:18:28 <jgarzik> glassresistor: the default HTTP port is 80, slush's HTML website for web browsers
 220 2011-03-26 01:18:34 <jgarzik> glassresistor: you _must_ specify the port
 221 2011-03-26 01:18:38 Omni has joined
 222 2011-03-26 01:18:49 <x420024x> is Lightfoot's Hosting Node 173.242.112.53 offline??
 223 2011-03-26 01:19:13 <slush> [Tycho]: which I'm doing now :)
 224 2011-03-26 01:19:24 <[Tycho]> slush, yes, it's very good.
 225 2011-03-26 01:19:37 <[Tycho]> But jgarzik doesn't checks it :(
 226 2011-03-26 01:20:02 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: I used to... then slush's code broke that by returning !application/json  ;-)
 227 2011-03-26 01:20:16 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: so I removed that check
 228 2011-03-26 01:20:19 <slush> jgarzik: what? Am I doing something wrong?
 229 2011-03-26 01:20:36 * comboy needs somebody with active forum account to help testing some new site, will require few minutes, priv for details, thanks
 230 2011-03-26 01:20:40 <slush> application/json is correct, isn't it?
 231 2011-03-26 01:20:52 <jgarzik> slush: at least +1 month ago, I told you that you were returning "text/html" content-type, when it should be "application/json"
 232 2011-03-26 01:21:09 <[Tycho]> Trying to parse HTML as JSON confuses users, which we see in this case.
 233 2011-03-26 01:21:14 <slush> yes, I changed it because Tycho was very sad for it :))
 234 2011-03-26 01:21:49 devrandom has joined
 235 2011-03-26 01:22:14 <[Tycho]> Because it looks like miner or pool is broken.
 236 2011-03-26 01:23:54 <baaaacon> should the long poll using GET or POST?
 237 2011-03-26 01:24:15 <jgarzik> opinions differ :)
 238 2011-03-26 01:24:19 <luke-jr> PUT
 239 2011-03-26 01:24:25 <luke-jr> j/k ;)
 240 2011-03-26 01:24:41 <[Tycho]> I would prefer to keep GET.
 241 2011-03-26 01:24:54 <jgarzik> baaaacon: the spec says GET, but cpuminer uses POST.  I can explain why if you're interested, but you're probably not.  :)
 242 2011-03-26 01:24:55 <baaaacon> since it waiting for server to respond would GET be better?
 243 2011-03-26 01:24:56 <[Tycho]> Who is baaaacon ?
 244 2011-03-26 01:25:04 <jgarzik> baaaacon: irrelevant
 245 2011-03-26 01:25:19 <Lachesis> jgarzik, i am
 246 2011-03-26 01:25:34 <Lachesis> what does bitcoind do when starting up? it pins my cpu for like 90 seconds.
 247 2011-03-26 01:26:27 <baaaacon> I read bitcoin from slashdot
 248 2011-03-26 01:26:47 <luke-jr> it should use SSE
 249 2011-03-26 01:26:54 <baaaacon> sorry my english bad
 250 2011-03-26 01:27:04 <jgarzik> Ok :)  cpuminer uses POST because that employs the same JSON-RPC code paths and behavior as non-LP connection.  Same behavior, very predictable.  But the spec wants a different protocol (requiring, obviously, more code and complexity) to do the same thing -- get a unit of work.
 251 2011-03-26 01:27:29 <jgarzik> Thus, GET is actually more complicated, because it's different from normal POST behavior of bitcoind JSON-RPC.
 252 2011-03-26 01:28:05 darkskiez has joined
 253 2011-03-26 01:28:12 darkskiez has quit (Client Quit)
 254 2011-03-26 01:28:28 <luke-jr> http://dev.w3.org/html5/eventsource/#processing-model
 255 2011-03-26 01:28:36 <luke-jr> SSE implies GET it seems
 256 2011-03-26 01:28:41 <luke-jr> but it doesn't explicitly specify either
 257 2011-03-26 01:29:03 <luke-jr> SSE would be more complex for other reasons ofc
 258 2011-03-26 01:29:43 subpar has joined
 259 2011-03-26 01:30:08 <jgarzik> In any case, LP is temporary until we all decide on push protocol
 260 2011-03-26 01:30:29 <[Tycho]> Initially i used GET because there was nginx module suitable for this.
 261 2011-03-26 01:30:43 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 262 2011-03-26 01:30:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: would SSE be too complex, IYO?
 263 2011-03-26 01:31:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: far more complex than the already-implemented Binary Data Protocol
 264 2011-03-26 01:31:41 <[Tycho]> What binary data protocol ?
 265 2011-03-26 01:31:44 <LobsterMan> just added this to my site if anyone wants to take a look :)
 266 2011-03-26 01:31:44 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/bitcoin/how-to-set-up-pooled-bitcoin-mining-in-windows
 267 2011-03-26 01:32:01 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: didn't you add that months ago?
 268 2011-03-26 01:32:01 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3493.0
 269 2011-03-26 01:32:09 <LobsterMan> this is a new one for using slush's pool
 270 2011-03-26 01:32:13 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: I'm currently implementing this in bitcoind
 271 2011-03-26 01:32:40 <baaaacon> how to do push? miner have port forward?
 272 2011-03-26 01:32:47 <[Tycho]> LobsterMan, i should vote against it, of course :)
 273 2011-03-26 01:33:06 adlsaks has joined
 274 2011-03-26 01:33:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why not use standard HTTP auth?
 275 2011-03-26 01:34:28 <slush> baaaacon: no, miner open tcp connection to the pool and pool send jobs on that
 276 2011-03-26 01:34:33 <jgarzik> luke-jr: in the binary protocol?  because it's not HTTP.
 277 2011-03-26 01:34:44 <jgarzik> or anything remotely resembling HTTP.
 278 2011-03-26 01:34:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: oh, pure TCP? what's the GET/POST talk then?
 279 2011-03-26 01:35:09 <jgarzik> luke-jr: long-polling.
 280 2011-03-26 01:35:52 <x420024x> Raulo:  could you help me understand that code on the forum better?
 281 2011-03-26 01:36:21 <x420024x> what do you mean by "independ.(ent)"?
 282 2011-03-26 01:37:35 <x420024x> do you mean solo-mining?
 283 2011-03-26 01:38:33 * ne0futur tries to relaunch the idea of bitcoin ads
 284 2011-03-26 01:38:39 <ne0futur>  anyone interested /join #bitcoin-ads
 285 2011-03-26 01:39:00 <[Tycho]> Anyone interested in VDS for BTC ? :)
 286 2011-03-26 01:39:32 <Netsniper> venerial diseases?
 287 2011-03-26 01:39:42 <[Tycho]> Virtual servers.
 288 2011-03-26 01:39:42 * BurtyB isn't interested in an STD 
 289 2011-03-26 01:39:49 <Netsniper> oh
 290 2011-03-26 01:39:54 <BurtyB> awe Netsniper beat me to it
 291 2011-03-26 01:40:33 <Netsniper> transmitting them anonymously seemed interesting!
 292 2011-03-26 01:41:34 <Diablo-D3> ...
 293 2011-03-26 01:41:38 * Diablo-D3 facepalms
 294 2011-03-26 01:41:55 <BurtyB> heh
 295 2011-03-26 01:43:35 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: they're called VPS these days
 296 2011-03-26 01:43:46 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: and there's already at least 2 providers, including me
 297 2011-03-26 01:44:27 <x420024x> why r bitcoin transactions not being processed right now?
 298 2011-03-26 01:44:36 miner_ has joined
 299 2011-03-26 01:44:41 <luke-jr> x420024x: they are
 300 2011-03-26 01:45:04 <x420024x> I have lots of unconfirmed earnings that are hours and hours old
 301 2011-03-26 01:45:08 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 302 2011-03-26 01:45:29 <luke-jr> x420024x: how much fee did you pay?
 303 2011-03-26 01:45:42 <x420024x> um, i dont know
 304 2011-03-26 01:45:57 <x420024x> i didnt pay anything im waiting to be paid
 305 2011-03-26 01:46:04 <luke-jr> if you don't pay a fee, it can take a while
 306 2011-03-26 01:46:07 <luke-jr> oh
 307 2011-03-26 01:46:07 <curiositysquared> sipa around?
 308 2011-03-26 01:46:09 <luke-jr> if they didn't, then
 309 2011-03-26 01:46:29 <luke-jr> I don't think the GUIs have any way for receiver to attach fees
 310 2011-03-26 01:46:32 <slush> [Tycho]: why do you have "compute4cash" in site title?
 311 2011-03-26 01:46:52 <slush> are you related to them somehow? ;)
 312 2011-03-26 01:46:54 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 313 2011-03-26 01:47:40 <ne0futur> can anyone here use https://mtgox.com/trade/history with konqueror ?
 314 2011-03-26 01:47:41 <ne0futur> not working here
 315 2011-03-26 01:47:42 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 316 2011-03-26 01:47:55 <luke-jr> ne0futur: works for me
 317 2011-03-26 01:47:55 <curiositysquared> I think this is a silly question but the difficulty inherantly has ringing doesn't it?
 318 2011-03-26 01:48:02 <luke-jr> you need to click "Last 48 Hours" or one of the others
 319 2011-03-26 01:48:04 <x420024x> so what the hell do I have to do to get paid?
 320 2011-03-26 01:48:18 <luke-jr> curiositysquared: silly or not, it doesn't make sense
 321 2011-03-26 01:48:28 <luke-jr> x420024x: just a matter of waiting
 322 2011-03-26 01:48:31 <baaaacon> x420024x: wait?
 323 2011-03-26 01:48:41 <[Tycho]> slush, i just decided that it's nice word for page title.
 324 2011-03-26 01:48:45 <curiositysquared> the new difficulty is lower than it should be and the previous one was higher than it ought to have been because the mystery miner pushed it up.
 325 2011-03-26 01:48:47 <x420024x> I've been mining for a 2 days
 326 2011-03-26 01:48:56 <luke-jr> x420024x: what video card?
 327 2011-03-26 01:48:56 <x420024x> and everything I made today is unconfirmed
 328 2011-03-26 01:49:02 <curiositysquared> x420024x: join a pool.
 329 2011-03-26 01:49:09 <x420024x> i am
 330 2011-03-26 01:49:19 <luke-jr> join slush's pool
 331 2011-03-26 01:49:23 <curiositysquared> oh. what's you're hash rate?
 332 2011-03-26 01:49:24 <x420024x> the payments are made, but they are grey in my gui
 333 2011-03-26 01:49:34 <[Tycho]> Join my pool :)
 334 2011-03-26 01:49:46 <x420024x> why does it matter what pool?
 335 2011-03-26 01:49:47 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: your pool pays fees?
 336 2011-03-26 01:49:53 <x420024x> arent they all the same?
 337 2011-03-26 01:49:56 <slush> x420024x: my pool is crunching free transactions again, so it will proces it in some time :)
 338 2011-03-26 01:49:56 <luke-jr> x420024x: if the pool doesn't pay fees, it will take a long time
 339 2011-03-26 01:49:57 <[Tycho]> No. Why should i ?
 340 2011-03-26 01:49:58 <curiositysquared> has anyone done the math on the necesary hash rate where you win statistically by not being in a pool?
 341 2011-03-26 01:50:03 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: because of this
 342 2011-03-26 01:50:15 <[Tycho]> Because of what exactly ?
 343 2011-03-26 01:50:27 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 344 2011-03-26 01:50:29 <luke-jr> curiositysquared: whatever ;;bc,calc says is < 2 weeks
 345 2011-03-26 01:50:40 stresstest4051 has joined
 346 2011-03-26 01:50:41 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: fee-less tx take a long time because of tx spam
 347 2011-03-26 01:50:44 <[Tycho]> I'm including all my payout transactions in my pool's blocks.
 348 2011-03-26 01:50:49 <curiositysquared> That's not clear.
 349 2011-03-26 01:50:54 <x420024x> tx spam???
 350 2011-03-26 01:50:55 miner_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 351 2011-03-26 01:50:58 <x420024x> whats that?
 352 2011-03-26 01:51:00 <[Tycho]> So it's usually fast enough.
 353 2011-03-26 01:51:03 stresstest4051 has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
 354 2011-03-26 01:51:07 <x420024x> and why are we getting spam?
 355 2011-03-26 01:51:09 <jgarzik> x420024x: people sending 0.01 BTC to themselves, repeatedly
 356 2011-03-26 01:51:14 <x420024x> why?
 357 2011-03-26 01:51:28 <jgarzik> x420024x: not relevant
 358 2011-03-26 01:51:40 <x420024x> the spam or my Q?
 359 2011-03-26 01:51:50 * x420024x confused
 360 2011-03-26 01:52:00 <curiositysquared> I thought that the other day, but in the face of an exponentially rising difficulty, you want to minimize the time between you're last payment and the next dificulty jump.
 361 2011-03-26 01:52:11 <jgarzik> x420024x: either.  people spam, so we must deal with it.  free transactions == tragedy of the commons.
 362 2011-03-26 01:52:35 <jgarzik> x420024x: so most places limit free transactions to a certain small percentage of each block's size limit (1MB)
 363 2011-03-26 01:52:42 <[Tycho]> Someone spams the network, may be he wants to force people into paying fees.
 364 2011-03-26 01:52:49 <jgarzik> yep
 365 2011-03-26 01:53:01 <[Tycho]> But bitcoin transactions should be free as long as possible.
 366 2011-03-26 01:53:07 <jgarzik> nope
 367 2011-03-26 01:53:13 <subpar> heh
 368 2011-03-26 01:53:13 <jgarzik> bad incentive
 369 2011-03-26 01:53:13 <curiositysquared> I haven't figured out how to phrase the question correctly yet, but I think if you have a 50% chance of generating a block per day, every time you don't generate a block on the day before the difficulty jumps you just lost the opportunity to participate at the lower difficulty.
 370 2011-03-26 01:53:18 <[Tycho]> So you are the evil one ? :)
 371 2011-03-26 01:53:31 <jgarzik> free transactions will always be abused, because 'free' is trivial to abuse
 372 2011-03-26 01:53:58 <jgarzik> same problem as email spam -- if cost of sending is very low, spammers will spam, because that is the nature of the world.
 373 2011-03-26 01:54:02 <luke-jr> if you want to force people into paying fees, you can just refuse to accept fee-less tx
 374 2011-03-26 01:54:07 <x420024x> so spam is causing people to pay a tx fee in order to get paid?
 375 2011-03-26 01:54:11 <luke-jr> you don't need to waste time spamming
 376 2011-03-26 01:54:17 <luke-jr> therefore, tx spam has a different motive
 377 2011-03-26 01:54:21 <lfm> curiositysquared: and if you do get payed before a jump you're way ahead
 378 2011-03-26 01:54:23 <x420024x> can i set a fee on my account so I get paid?
 379 2011-03-26 01:54:34 <luke-jr> jgarzik: speaking of which, there's a n00b in -otc asking to buy spamming service
 380 2011-03-26 01:54:36 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, there always will be someone who accepts free ones, so just taking fees won't help.
 381 2011-03-26 01:54:42 <jgarzik> x420024x: TX fee is paid by the sender, not the receiver
 382 2011-03-26 01:54:48 <luke-jr> x420024x: It should be possible, but the GUI doesn't support it
 383 2011-03-26 01:54:53 <curiositysquared> lfm, that's why I keep confusing myself with the math.
 384 2011-03-26 01:55:06 <x420024x> does bitcoind support it?
 385 2011-03-26 01:55:10 <curiositysquared> That way ahead really isn't so much way ahead.
 386 2011-03-26 01:55:10 <jgarzik> yes
 387 2011-03-26 01:55:10 <luke-jr> x420024x: no
 388 2011-03-26 01:55:16 <x420024x> wtf
 389 2011-03-26 01:55:20 <luke-jr> jgarzik: since when?
 390 2011-03-26 01:55:25 <x420024x> one person says yes, the other no?
 391 2011-03-26 01:55:28 <jgarzik> x420024x: -paytxfee command line argument sets the TX fees you pay
 392 2011-03-26 01:55:29 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, what do you mean ? You CAN set a fee in GUI for sending a tx.
 393 2011-03-26 01:55:34 <luke-jr> jgarzik: bitcoind allows the recipient to add a fee?
 394 2011-03-26 01:55:37 <curiositysquared> if the difficulty increases 10%, you'll still generate a block after the jump, but 10% fewer of them.
 395 2011-03-26 01:55:38 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I mean for receiving
 396 2011-03-26 01:55:49 <jgarzik> <jgarzik> x420024x: TX fee is paid by the sender, not the receiver
 397 2011-03-26 01:56:02 <luke-jr> jgarzik: receiver can add a fee, too
 398 2011-03-26 01:56:10 <luke-jr> just not implemented in GUI/JSON-RPC
 399 2011-03-26 01:56:19 <x420024x> mine says 0.00 in the GUI
 400 2011-03-26 01:56:22 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no, that's impossible
 401 2011-03-26 01:56:29 <x420024x> if I set that to 0.01, do I get paid faster?
 402 2011-03-26 01:56:33 <jgarzik> x420024x: no
 403 2011-03-26 01:56:35 <luke-jr> jgarzik: use <pending-received-coin> to send yourself 99% as change. 1% goes to fee
 404 2011-03-26 01:56:44 <jgarzik> x420024x: the sender has to pay the fee
 405 2011-03-26 01:56:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: your fee transaction depends on the pending one
 406 2011-03-26 01:57:21 <luke-jr> my skim over the relevant code suggested that would increase its priority
 407 2011-03-26 01:57:28 <luke-jr> if not, it should
 408 2011-03-26 01:58:57 <x420024x> ok, so nothing i can do to speed this up.
 409 2011-03-26 01:59:08 <x420024x> that totally sucks balls
 410 2011-03-26 01:59:42 <FellowTraveler>   "Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country
 411 2011-03-26 01:59:43 <FellowTraveler>    are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism."
 412 2011-03-26 01:59:43 <FellowTraveler>    ...
 413 2011-03-26 01:59:43 <FellowTraveler>   "We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration,
 414 2011-03-26 01:59:43 <FellowTraveler>    disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge
 415 2011-03-26 01:59:43 <FellowTraveler>    the legitimacy of our democratic form of government."
 416 2011-03-26 01:59:43 <FellowTraveler>    ...
 417 2011-03-26 01:59:44 <FellowTraveler>   "While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve
 418 2011-03-26 01:59:44 <FellowTraveler>    violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and
 419 2011-03-26 01:59:45 <FellowTraveler>    present danger to the economic stability of this country."
 420 2011-03-26 02:00:41 <x420024x> who said that
 421 2011-03-26 02:00:43 <x420024x> ?
 422 2011-03-26 02:00:48 <x420024x> the federal reserve?
 423 2011-03-26 02:00:49 <subpar> OJ?
 424 2011-03-26 02:00:51 <x420024x> :)
 425 2011-03-26 02:01:06 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 426 2011-03-26 02:01:22 <FellowTraveler> http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel11/ce031811.htm
 427 2011-03-26 02:01:28 <x420024x> one could argue the same exact quote about inflation being the disruption.
 428 2011-03-26 02:02:47 <x420024x> where in bitcoind do i change the tx fee?
 429 2011-03-26 02:03:00 <molecular> von Nothaus made coins with $-signs on them, it seems
 430 2011-03-26 02:03:38 <curiositysquared> I think you should join a pool if the fees in the pool are less than the expected loss do to a jump in difficulty.
 431 2011-03-26 02:03:55 <FellowTraveler> The $ is what they got him for, but the quote doesn't mention the $.
 432 2011-03-26 02:04:18 <FellowTraveler> The title says "Defendant Convicted of Minting His Own Currency"
 433 2011-03-26 02:04:44 <FellowTraveler> It's clear from her quote that his real crime was being involved in "anti-government activities" by way of "minting his own currency"
 434 2011-03-26 02:05:07 <FellowTraveler> But that's okay, since they are determined to meet such "domestic terrorist" threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling.
 435 2011-03-26 02:05:36 <FellowTraveler> After all, minting your own currency represents a "clear and present danger to the economic stability" of this country.
 436 2011-03-26 02:05:50 <molecular> well, europe is minting it's own currency to compete with the $, so europe should be jailed.
 437 2011-03-26 02:06:01 <FellowTraveler> We have the FBI calling the founder of the Liberty Dollar a "domestic terrorist."
 438 2011-03-26 02:06:06 <FellowTraveler> The FBI.
 439 2011-03-26 02:06:30 <FellowTraveler> Can we only assume they have already infiltrated this channel?
 440 2011-03-26 02:06:32 <jgarzik> x420024x: -paytxfee
 441 2011-03-26 02:06:35 <jgarzik> x420024x: on the command line
 442 2011-03-26 02:06:52 <jgarzik> FellowTraveler: I bet they've infiltrated #bitcoin-discussion, where this is more on-topic :)
 443 2011-03-26 02:06:55 <molecular> CIA-96 has been here for a while ;) but FBI-69?
 444 2011-03-26 02:07:05 <curiositysquared> Everytime the difficulty jumps you have a time period between you're last block at the old difficulty you're next block in the new difficulty. This is the only period of time that matters compared to being in a pool. .... I can't decide if I'm over thinking this or not.
 445 2011-03-26 02:07:09 <curiositysquared> :(
 446 2011-03-26 02:07:12 <curiositysquared> Where is slush's pool located?
 447 2011-03-26 02:07:19 <slush> London
 448 2011-03-26 02:07:34 <x420024x> jgarzik: "error: {"code":-32601,"message":"Method not found"}"
 449 2011-03-26 02:07:38 <x420024x> :(
 450 2011-03-26 02:07:39 <curiositysquared> I'd guess if they wanted to go after people they'd go after operators.
 451 2011-03-26 02:07:42 <curiositysquared> That's good.
 452 2011-03-26 02:07:49 <jgarzik> x420024x: it is not an RPC command
 453 2011-03-26 02:07:53 <curiositysquared> how many people TOR their miners?
 454 2011-03-26 02:07:56 <molecular> we can assume they have infiltrated all channels
 455 2011-03-26 02:07:57 <jgarzik> x420024x: it is used on the cmmand line, when you start bitcoind
 456 2011-03-26 02:08:01 <FellowTraveler> jgarzik — the people on that channel are only discussing alternate currencies, not actually building them like you terrorists are on this channel.
 457 2011-03-26 02:08:27 <[Tycho]> curiositysquared, attacking pools won't slow down mining.
 458 2011-03-26 02:08:38 <curiositysquared> no. jailing pool owners will.
 459 2011-03-26 02:08:43 <molecular> no
 460 2011-03-26 02:08:43 <[Tycho]> No.
 461 2011-03-26 02:08:45 <curiositysquared> chilling effect.
 462 2011-03-26 02:08:55 <[Tycho]> You don't understand how it works.
 463 2011-03-26 02:09:02 <molecular> FUD, there will be FUD-campaign
 464 2011-03-26 02:09:10 <FellowTraveler> You can run pools anonymously and untraceably, for a profit, as long as you run an Open Transactions back end.
 465 2011-03-26 02:09:12 <molecular> but more they can't really do
 466 2011-03-26 02:09:29 <phantomcircuit> FellowTraveler, you realize he was convicted of minting coins, if you read the statute he violated it very clearly only covers coinage
 467 2011-03-26 02:09:31 <curiositysquared> they start putting people in jail and pressing charges I'll drop my gigahash/s out of mining.
 468 2011-03-26 02:09:34 <slush> I don't think pool operators are doing anything illegal
 469 2011-03-26 02:09:46 <FellowTraveler> phantomcircuit they will find a different charge each time they need one.
 470 2011-03-26 02:09:49 <curiositysquared> I know it wont stop bitcoins. That's why they're awesome. But a chilling effect would be powerful and real.
 471 2011-03-26 02:09:52 <[Tycho]> curiositysquared, why would you stop mining ?
 472 2011-03-26 02:09:53 <molecular> well, if you really wanted you could say the bitcoin network or it's miners are minting coins
 473 2011-03-26 02:10:01 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ...coinage that was intended to look similar to US coinage, to the point where the US Mint had to issue an advisory saying "this is not real US money"
 474 2011-03-26 02:10:01 <slush> BOINC, folding@home, seti@home and so on are perfectly legal, too :)
 475 2011-03-26 02:10:22 <FellowTraveler> Yes but unlike any other counterfeit money, it was actually worth MORE than what it copied.
 476 2011-03-26 02:10:25 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, actually minting any coinage violates the law, ARCADES BEWARE
 477 2011-03-26 02:10:26 <molecular> "It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States."
 478 2011-03-26 02:10:26 <FellowTraveler> since it was made of real silver.
 479 2011-03-26 02:11:03 <molecular> so it only has to "compete with USD" to be in violation of federal law
 480 2011-03-26 02:11:14 <molecular> BTC and EUR clearly compete with USD
 481 2011-03-26 02:11:17 <jgarzik> that's a press release summary of the statute
 482 2011-03-26 02:11:21 <phantomcircuit> molecular, that's the FBI's obviously biased interpretation of the law
 483 2011-03-26 02:11:23 <jgarzik> don't read too far into that
 484 2011-03-26 02:11:25 <alias420> oh no btcoin just took a 2 cent dip on usd
 485 2011-03-26 02:11:29 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: right
 486 2011-03-26 02:11:31 <alias420> the sky is falling!!!
 487 2011-03-26 02:11:35 <curiositysquared> because if the FBI wants to deem mining btc something worth their time to fuck with people over, it's not worth any personal risk to me. Even if I know I can mine with near perfect anonymity and safety.
 488 2011-03-26 02:11:42 <curiositysquared> I don't like risk. Hence my liking btc.
 489 2011-03-26 02:11:51 <molecular> yes, I'm just saying, that's how they think
 490 2011-03-26 02:11:56 <FellowTraveler> The founder of e-gold was convicted, now the founder of Liberty dollar was convicted. But though they find a charge every time, they have not found any actual wrongdoing.
 491 2011-03-26 02:11:58 <jgarzik> curiositysquared: I'll take your BTC for 50% under market, if you're panic-selling
 492 2011-03-26 02:11:59 <molecular> by that logic, we are also terrorists
 493 2011-03-26 02:12:06 <FellowTraveler> Yes, you are.
 494 2011-03-26 02:12:14 <alias420> haha
 495 2011-03-26 02:12:25 <molecular> so I'm either with them or against them... a choice not too hard
 496 2011-03-26 02:12:42 <phantomcircuit> http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14279992
 497 2011-03-26 02:12:48 <phantomcircuit> you'll notice they only mention the coins
 498 2011-03-26 02:12:58 <alias420> US coins
 499 2011-03-26 02:13:02 <phantomcircuit> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html
 500 2011-03-26 02:13:03 <phantomcircuit> thar
 501 2011-03-26 02:13:05 <curiositysquared> panic selling is the opposite of what to do in a panic.
 502 2011-03-26 02:13:07 <alias420> no one is making US Coins
 503 2011-03-26 02:13:16 <curiositysquared> more like panic encrypt and squirl.
 504 2011-03-26 02:13:22 <molecular> we are "alpaca-sock-wearing crypto-terrorists"
 505 2011-03-26 02:13:23 <phantomcircuit>  or of original design,
 506 2011-03-26 02:13:27 <alias420> NC man convicted of illegally minting US coins
 507 2011-03-26 02:13:48 <FellowTraveler> in the old days, the juror's oath was "I swear I will not convict anyone of wrongdoing".  I wonder what moral wrong the jury found in this case, where the "counterfeit" dollars are worth more than the "real" ones?
 508 2011-03-26 02:13:50 <alias420> haha yeah I have to get me some of those socks soon
 509 2011-03-26 02:13:57 <AAA_awright> He was an "economic terrorist"
 510 2011-03-26 02:14:47 <phantomcircuit> GET HIM BOYS
 511 2011-03-26 02:14:56 <curiositysquared> is there more than one case here? Or only the guy who minted coins with "USA" and "God in Trust" on them?
 512 2011-03-26 02:15:04 theymos has joined
 513 2011-03-26 02:15:21 <FellowTraveler> exactly.
 514 2011-03-26 02:15:47 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, "Trust In God"
 515 2011-03-26 02:16:00 <phantomcircuit> http://www.google.com/images?q=liberty+dollar&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=912
 516 2011-03-26 02:16:11 <phantomcircuit> but yeah you'll notice the similarity to older US dollar coins
 517 2011-03-26 02:16:49 <FellowTraveler> It's actually much more similar than the actual US currency, since it's actually made of silver.
 518 2011-03-26 02:17:03 <FellowTraveler> The irony of who is the real counterfeit is striking.
 519 2011-03-26 02:17:09 <curiositysquared> reguardless of the technical interpretation of the constitution and laws, law enforcement doesn't give a fuck about the law (I can say from personal experience) They'll fuck with anyone who they don't like the smell of.
 520 2011-03-26 02:17:18 <AAA_awright> Glenn Beck -- Who I know owns at least a few Liberty Dollars if he hasn't already gotten rid of them -- covered the Liberty Dollar story this Tuesday, when reporting on a fairly creditable plan by SEIU bosses to get everyone to stop paying their mortgages
 521 2011-03-26 02:17:38 <FellowTraveler> Just you guys remember who the domestic terrorists are now:  YOU.
 522 2011-03-26 02:17:41 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, sure good luck to them with that
 523 2011-03-26 02:17:44 <curiositysquared> that glenn character ... he's totally a terrorist.
 524 2011-03-26 02:17:55 f3n is now known as home-machine!~f3n@unaffiliated/f3n|f3n
 525 2011-03-26 02:17:57 <AAA_awright> FellowTraveler: That's the idea
 526 2011-03-26 02:18:17 <phantomcircuit> AAA_awright, unions propose outright fraud? NEVER!
 527 2011-03-26 02:18:18 <phantomcircuit> lulz
 528 2011-03-26 02:19:15 <phantomcircuit> http://www.chambersburglibertydollar.com/zm8.jpg
 529 2011-03-26 02:19:16 <phantomcircuit> rofl
 530 2011-03-26 02:19:25 <phantomcircuit> "excuse me sir i am going to buy bread"
 531 2011-03-26 02:19:38 <curiositysquared> are there any other functioning crypto currencies at the moment?
 532 2011-03-26 02:20:05 <FellowTraveler> There's Open Transactions, but it's chaumian cash, not cryptocurrency:  https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki
 533 2011-03-26 02:20:17 <FellowTraveler> however I see how BTC and OT solve many of each other's problems.
 534 2011-03-26 02:20:30 <FellowTraveler> see the FAQ for details
 535 2011-03-26 02:21:02 <FellowTraveler> You terrorists.
 536 2011-03-26 02:23:58 <molecular> "a Fed Note is just a Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Denomination, or F.R.A.U.D." <- haha (http://www.chambersburglibertydollar.com/)
 537 2011-03-26 02:24:31 <theymos> Note: Bitcoin Block Explorer will be down for a few hours sometime tonight. Many of Gribble's commands will therefore be broken.
 538 2011-03-26 02:25:47 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 539 2011-03-26 02:43:25 <comboy> anybody still alive?
 540 2011-03-26 02:43:43 * theymos is dead
 541 2011-03-26 02:43:47 <comboy> I just had some coding session
 542 2011-03-26 02:43:53 <comboy> http://bitcoinity.org/
 543 2011-03-26 02:44:06 <[Tycho]> Hello.
 544 2011-03-26 02:44:10 <comboy> if somebody feels like testing very unstable stuff that can go down any moment please do
 545 2011-03-26 02:44:18 <comboy> please don't share this outside irc yet
 546 2011-03-26 02:44:45 nick has joined
 547 2011-03-26 02:44:55 <comboy> it was created after forum thread, this one http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4735.msg69636#msg69636
 548 2011-03-26 02:44:59 <phantomcircuit> you know what i hate
 549 2011-03-26 02:45:01 <phantomcircuit> the word queue
 550 2011-03-26 02:45:24 <[Tycho]> You didn't set a background color.
 551 2011-03-26 02:45:34 <[Tycho]> Or "haven't"...
 552 2011-03-26 02:45:53 <comboy> don't tell me you have non-white by default
 553 2011-03-26 02:45:58 <[Tycho]> I do.
 554 2011-03-26 02:46:10 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], you shouldn't do that
 555 2011-03-26 02:46:12 <[Tycho]> It's not guaranted to be white.
 556 2011-03-26 02:46:13 <phantomcircuit> comboy, cookies
 557 2011-03-26 02:46:14 <comboy> I tried once, half of the internet was looking bad ;)
 558 2011-03-26 02:46:23 <comboy> phantomcircuit: you don't like cookies?
 559 2011-03-26 02:46:27 <[Tycho]> comboy, it's their fault :)
 560 2011-03-26 02:46:27 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], yes but most sites assumes
 561 2011-03-26 02:46:37 <phantomcircuit> comboy, I FUCKING LOVE COOKIES
 562 2011-03-26 02:46:39 <phantomcircuit> NOM NOM NOM
 563 2011-03-26 02:46:46 <comboy> good
 564 2011-03-26 02:46:51 doublec has joined
 565 2011-03-26 02:47:08 <comboy> it's quite empty and stuff
 566 2011-03-26 02:47:18 <[Tycho]> I ise gray as default, it helps me with reading plaintext stuff.
 567 2011-03-26 02:47:37 <comboy> and the feature I think is nice is that you can confirm ownership of forum account
 568 2011-03-26 02:47:54 <comboy> so then any kind of comments declarations recommendations have some background
 569 2011-03-26 02:47:59 <comboy> other than random nick on random new site
 570 2011-03-26 02:48:05 <[Tycho]> And surprisingly it's not "white" by default in IE. It equals to windows background color, which depends on selected theme.
 571 2011-03-26 02:48:22 <phantomcircuit> lol there is a dead lock somewhere in my program
 572 2011-03-26 02:48:24 <phantomcircuit> :(
 573 2011-03-26 02:48:28 <comboy> [Tycho]: I'll set it white :>
 574 2011-03-26 02:48:33 <[Tycho]> Ok :)
 575 2011-03-26 02:48:45 <x420024x> why would people flood the network with micropayments?  how do they make anything off that?
 576 2011-03-26 02:48:54 <x420024x> could the big banks be attacking bitcoin?
 577 2011-03-26 02:49:10 <[Tycho]> It could be done easily with scripts.
 578 2011-03-26 02:49:11 <comboy> if somebody could test registration with forum account confirmation thot would be great (no email required)
 579 2011-03-26 02:49:23 <comboy> and it may slow down at moments
 580 2011-03-26 02:50:13 <x420024x> normail e-mail usually includes some type of bait hoping that victum bites it, but what does some gain by spamming the bitcoin network?
 581 2011-03-26 02:50:22 <x420024x> how does that make them a profit?
 582 2011-03-26 02:50:46 alias420 has left ()
 583 2011-03-26 02:50:50 <theymos> Maybe they want to demonstrate that Bitcoin is weak to this kind of attack.
 584 2011-03-26 02:51:05 <theymos> (Though they've actually shown that the network handles it pretty well.)
 585 2011-03-26 02:51:17 <[Tycho]> That was my first idea.
 586 2011-03-26 02:51:29 <[Tycho]> But then i supposed that this is to force fees.
 587 2011-03-26 02:51:53 <x420024x> what's the point of forcing fees though?
 588 2011-03-26 02:51:53 <[Tycho]> x420024x, it's not "spamming", it's flooding
 589 2011-03-26 02:51:59 <phantomcircuit> x420024x, it's people being dicks, which is pretty much SOP
 590 2011-03-26 02:52:14 <[Tycho]> x420024x, getting those fees :)
 591 2011-03-26 02:52:17 <theymos> It's not very effective for forcing fees. No one will pay fees on small transactions, and large transactions have priority high enough that fees are unnecessary.
 592 2011-03-26 02:52:54 <phantomcircuit> actually
 593 2011-03-26 02:52:56 <x420024x> so this is just some asshole being stupid....great.
 594 2011-03-26 02:53:00 <phantomcircuit> that's not an unreasonable though
 595 2011-03-26 02:53:06 <comboy> [Tycho]: bg white, now pretty please with sugar on top, test me signup ;p
 596 2011-03-26 02:53:13 <phantomcircuit> miners flood the network could force people making legit transactions to include fees
 597 2011-03-26 02:53:25 <jgarzik> The natural end state of free TX area is 100% filled at all time, creating the incentive for all users to pay some sort of fee.  But I think we will sit at the network-agreed minimum for a long time.  And I think that minimum will need to be lowered below 0.01 soonish...
 598 2011-03-26 02:53:32 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yep
 599 2011-03-26 02:54:17 <x420024x> so their is no reason to flood the network other than to be a dick.
 600 2011-03-26 02:54:27 * x420024x grumbles
 601 2011-03-26 02:54:35 <jgarzik> but I think any free tx area will be full normally, anyway, without miner conspiracy.  due to griefers, or spammers, or testing, or just a lot of people using micropayments w/ bitcoin.
 602 2011-03-26 02:54:46 <phantomcircuit> hmm this now appears to be working just fine
 603 2011-03-26 02:55:01 <phantomcircuit> lol all i did was throw more re-entrant locks
 604 2011-03-26 02:55:12 <phantomcircuit> i literally have no idea why this works
 605 2011-03-26 02:55:14 <phantomcircuit> yay?
 606 2011-03-26 02:55:15 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: in python?  is GIL still alive in python3?
 607 2011-03-26 02:55:21 <phantomcircuit> yes it is
 608 2011-03-26 02:55:32 <jgarzik> sad
 609 2011-03-26 02:55:38 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, 99% of the work is done in extensions though
 610 2011-03-26 02:55:38 <phantomcircuit> so
 611 2011-03-26 02:55:40 CyanDynamo1 has joined
 612 2011-03-26 02:55:43 <phantomcircuit> threads still make sense
 613 2011-03-26 02:55:52 <phantomcircuit> TypeError: unorderable types: int() < bytes()
 614 2011-03-26 02:55:54 <phantomcircuit> shit
 615 2011-03-26 02:56:03 <phantomcircuit> i keep getting that and have no idea why
 616 2011-03-26 02:56:58 <luke-jr> makes sense to me
 617 2011-03-26 02:57:07 <theymos> Keeping transactions free for as long as possible is very good for the project. I was thinking that age should be emphasised more in the priority algorithm. Does anyone know how aged the spam transactions usually are?
 618 2011-03-26 02:57:34 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, except im not comparing an int to bytes anywhere that i can find
 619 2011-03-26 02:57:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: usually Python gives a line number
 620 2011-03-26 02:58:21 CyanDynamo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 621 2011-03-26 02:59:17 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol yeah it's not helpful
 622 2011-03-26 02:59:35 <phantomcircuit> the object is entirely invalidated when the exception is thrown
 623 2011-03-26 02:59:37 <SykeP> I don't think age will help. there's more than 12 hours of spam atm.
 624 2011-03-26 02:59:40 <phantomcircuit> so i cant tell what's going on
 625 2011-03-26 02:59:44 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 626 2011-03-26 03:00:31 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, http://codepad.org/58Vcjrgs https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/tree/connector
 627 2011-03-26 03:00:35 <phantomcircuit> good luck with that
 628 2011-03-26 03:02:15 <baaaacon> is way to send lots tx at time?
 629 2011-03-26 03:02:17 <luke-jr> your stack is too big :P
 630 2011-03-26 03:02:21 <luke-jr> baaaacon: sendmany
 631 2011-03-26 03:02:28 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what?
 632 2011-03-26 03:02:34 <baaaacon> what sendmany?
 633 2011-03-26 03:02:36 <phantomcircuit> oh
 634 2011-03-26 03:02:37 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 635 2011-03-26 03:02:42 <phantomcircuit> it's mostly sqlalchemy
 636 2011-03-26 03:06:01 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
 637 2011-03-26 03:06:39 <phantomcircuit> the only thing i'm getting from sqlalchemy is a single list abstraction
 638 2011-03-26 03:06:45 <phantomcircuit> this isn't worth it
 639 2011-03-26 03:06:47 <jgarzik> theymos: I think 0.3.21 changes will help w/ free txs, letting more legit freebies through
 640 2011-03-26 03:07:16 noagendamarket has joined
 641 2011-03-26 03:07:16 <theymos> What changes? I only know of limitfreerelay.
 642 2011-03-26 03:08:12 stresstest5538 has joined
 643 2011-03-26 03:08:23 <jgarzik> theymos: the switch to continuous rate limit of free transactions
 644 2011-03-26 03:08:41 stresstest5538 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 645 2011-03-26 03:09:26 <jgarzik> theymos: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5de8b54c5138e47b6df40d31f282fb45243b29bf
 646 2011-03-26 03:12:14 f3n has quit ()
 647 2011-03-26 03:12:38 Beremat has joined
 648 2011-03-26 03:13:24 <baaaacon> is a install windows of 0.3.21 version?
 649 2011-03-26 03:17:18 <theymos> jgarzik: Am I right in thinking that the rate-limiting code will tend to create a "wall" around spammers? That'd be good. When a transaction is rate-limited, does it get added to the memory pool?
 650 2011-03-26 03:29:30 <nevezen> is there a changelog between 0.18 and 0.20?
 651 2011-03-26 03:29:55 <nevezen> err, 0.3.18 to 0.3.20
 652 2011-03-26 03:33:35 <jgarzik> theymos: when a TX is rate-limited, it is rejected from the memory pool
 653 2011-03-26 03:33:45 <jgarzik> never added
 654 2011-03-26 03:34:25 <jgarzik> theymos: ideally, this should help serve a steady flow of free TX, while shutting down big bursts of low priority TX
 655 2011-03-26 03:35:38 <x420024x> is their a way to "ban" or "deny" an bitcoin address locally.  My thought is that if we figure out the address of the person flooding the bitcoin network, we (the community) could collectively ban/deny/ignore them locally.  If enough people did that, wouldn't it make the flood useless?
 656 2011-03-26 03:36:02 <jgarzik> x420024x: not really, even one address means TXs leak through
 657 2011-03-26 03:36:11 <jgarzik> x420024x: one of the strengths of bitcoin :
 658 2011-03-26 03:36:13 <jgarzik> :)
 659 2011-03-26 03:36:24 <x420024x> hrm...
 660 2011-03-26 03:36:28 <x420024x> that's good i guess
 661 2011-03-26 03:36:37 <x420024x> this just sucks
 662 2011-03-26 03:36:39 <theymos> jgarzik: I don't think it will have the effect of limiting only spam. Spammers will just send tons of transactions and keep it constantly blocked. If only the nodes first receiving the transactions started blocking free transactions, it would have a really nice effect.
 663 2011-03-26 03:36:55 <x420024x> if theres no gain in doing this, then WTF would someone dumb ass do it?
 664 2011-03-26 03:36:56 <jgarzik> theymos: it's still prioritized
 665 2011-03-26 03:37:18 <jgarzik> theymos: if spammers are getting higher prio than normal users, we need to look at that
 666 2011-03-26 03:37:52 <jgarzik> x420024x: why do script kiddies continue to run scripts?
 667 2011-03-26 03:38:12 <theymos> I don't see priority in the limiting code you linked.
 668 2011-03-26 03:39:33 <jgarzik> theymos: priority is a factor in how TX's exit the cache [into a block]
 669 2011-03-26 03:39:35 <x420024x> jgarzik:  cause they don't know how to write the code
 670 2011-03-26 03:40:04 adlsaks has joined
 671 2011-03-26 03:40:14 stresstest5880 has joined
 672 2011-03-26 03:40:33 <theymos> jgarzik: Right. But if someone continually floods the network with spam transactions, limitfreerelay will be triggered on all free transactions, regardless of priority.
 673 2011-03-26 03:41:35 <jgarzik> theymos: limitfreerelay just handles bursts
 674 2011-03-26 03:42:33 oval- has quit ()
 675 2011-03-26 03:43:17 <jgarzik> legit clients will randomly resend, if they hit a bad period.  but a spammer beaconing tons of TX's, repeatedly, is much more noticable and easier to filter
 676 2011-03-26 03:43:40 stresstest5880 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 677 2011-03-26 03:45:06 <theymos> Why won't a spammer sending tons of transactions continuously disable all free transactions? Does limitfreerelay adjust to the observed rate?
 678 2011-03-26 03:46:22 kpkarl has left ()
 679 2011-03-26 03:47:37 <noagendamarket> a p2p blacklist :)
 680 2011-03-26 03:47:49 <luke-jr> theymos: I imagine it's per IP/connection
 681 2011-03-26 03:48:21 <theymos> I don't think so.
 682 2011-03-26 03:49:47 EPiSKiNG has joined
 683 2011-03-26 03:50:01 <EPiSKiNG> is there a way to get OpenCL for an nvidia card?
 684 2011-03-26 03:50:35 <JFK911> i think so
 685 2011-03-26 03:51:59 st-6176 has joined
 686 2011-03-26 03:52:13 st-6176 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 687 2011-03-26 03:54:53 <EPiSKiNG> because that should increase the MH/s
 688 2011-03-26 03:55:06 <EPiSKiNG> by a phenomenal margin, wouldn't you think?
 689 2011-03-26 03:55:33 <EPiSKiNG> although i read that ati wins due to the performance in integer math vs floating point in nvidia cards
 690 2011-03-26 03:56:41 <[Tycho]> It would decrease MH/s
 691 2011-03-26 03:57:46 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 692 2011-03-26 03:58:21 st-6260 has joined
 693 2011-03-26 03:58:53 st-6260 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 694 2011-03-26 04:02:13 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: most recent nvidia card support opencl just fine. you are right tho that ati is better for bitcoin due to the integer performance
 695 2011-03-26 04:02:36 <EPiSKiNG> what about cpu mining i hear about... what's the most MH/s we've seen?
 696 2011-03-26 04:03:46 <[Tycho]> About 13 MH/s for a average quad core intel CPU.
 697 2011-03-26 04:04:34 <lfm> I think an amd x6 can beat that but not sure
 698 2011-03-26 04:05:07 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: only older ones
 699 2011-03-26 04:05:21 <luke-jr> newer Intel CPUs only get ~5 MH/s on average, with cpuminer
 700 2011-03-26 04:05:41 st-6337 has joined
 701 2011-03-26 04:05:47 da2ce7 has quit ()
 702 2011-03-26 04:05:48 <luke-jr> would be nice to see the performance if someone could implement it using AVX
 703 2011-03-26 04:06:16 <lfm> luke the new sse2_x64 mode on cpu miner can do 10mh/s on my q6600
 704 2011-03-26 04:06:27 <[Tycho]> I haven't tested last CPUs.
 705 2011-03-26 04:06:37 <[Tycho]> After core2quad.
 706 2011-03-26 04:07:08 <luke-jr> lfm: Q6600 is old
 707 2011-03-26 04:07:21 <lfm> ok
 708 2011-03-26 04:07:26 <JFK911> ten millihash?
 709 2011-03-26 04:07:27 <luke-jr> SSE performs poorly on new stuff
 710 2011-03-26 04:07:55 <forrestv> why don't nodes require txns to have some proof-of-work in order to prevent spam?
 711 2011-03-26 04:08:09 <JFK911> oversight?
 712 2011-03-26 04:08:26 st-6337 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 713 2011-03-26 04:08:27 <fabianhjr> night
 714 2011-03-26 04:08:30 `Ven has joined
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 716 2011-03-26 04:08:45 <lfm> forrestv: I dont think that would be a good idea
 717 2011-03-26 04:08:57 <[Tycho]> Calling Q6600 "old" is funny :)
 718 2011-03-26 04:10:17 <lfm> [Tycho]: well its like 4 years I think now
 719 2011-03-26 04:11:03 <luke-jr> 2 generations at least
 720 2011-03-26 04:11:12 <luke-jr> there were the Core i* after it
 721 2011-03-26 04:11:17 <luke-jr> now the 2nd Gen Core i*
 722 2011-03-26 04:11:48 <lfm> ya the q6600 was the first of intel's quads
 723 2011-03-26 04:12:13 <[Tycho]> I would call "old" only something like P3 and older.
 724 2011-03-26 04:12:15 st-6404 has joined
 725 2011-03-26 04:12:24 Venatic` has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 726 2011-03-26 04:12:27 <lfm> ok middle aged
 727 2011-03-26 04:12:42 <forrestv> lfm, why?
 728 2011-03-26 04:13:14 <[Tycho]> And currently i'm using dual P3-500 :)
 729 2011-03-26 04:13:49 st-6404 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 730 2011-03-26 04:13:56 <lfm> [Tycho]: ooo, that was once a nice machine. it is "old" now tho, as you say
 731 2011-03-26 04:14:39 <jgarzik> if it's multi-core, it's a youngster
 732 2011-03-26 04:15:16 <[Tycho]> Yes, it was very cool when no other people had SMP :)
 733 2011-03-26 04:15:36 <lfm> I am still running an AMD Athlon MP 2600 dual processor, it must be almost 10 years old. I had a dual celeron 500 before that
 734 2011-03-26 04:16:02 <[Tycho]> And my NAT/firewall is Pentium 200 :)
 735 2011-03-26 04:16:23 <forrestv> -.-
 736 2011-03-26 04:16:24 <lfm> [Tycho]: ah, a meuseum piece!
 737 2011-03-26 04:17:00 <[Tycho]> Not a museum, doing real task.
 738 2011-03-26 04:17:27 <[Tycho]> As for "museum", i have all x86 generations except P4 :)
 739 2011-03-26 04:18:11 <[Tycho]> And all my computers are completely fanless. Except the mining rig, which is in another room
 740 2011-03-26 04:18:31 <lfm> I have had most of them but the meuseum pieces got trashed here
 741 2011-03-26 04:19:53 <JFK911> p4 is one of the best ones imho
 742 2011-03-26 04:20:05 <[Tycho]> P4 is the worst, actually.
 743 2011-03-26 04:20:22 <lfm> hard to run a p4 without a fan
 744 2011-03-26 04:20:39 <[Tycho]> That was one of reasons why i don't have it :)
 745 2011-03-26 04:21:48 <JFK911> hyperthreading was really cool
 746 2011-03-26 04:21:57 <JFK911> i still use some (northwood style) and the fan rarely comes on
 747 2011-03-26 04:22:02 <[Tycho]> And real SMP is better.
 748 2011-03-26 04:22:21 <JFK911> yeah? so get exensive ZION p4's
 749 2011-03-26 04:22:33 <JFK911> *expensive
 750 2011-03-26 04:23:00 <[Tycho]> The really hard to find pieces are soviet computers, most of them were disassembled for gold and silver parts, so very few working ones exist now.
 751 2011-03-26 04:23:23 <JFK911> i lived in russia for 3/4 year and couldn't find any such
 752 2011-03-26 04:23:26 <JFK911> even a calculator
 753 2011-03-26 04:23:37 <JFK911> i got a soviet volt/ohm meter.
 754 2011-03-26 04:23:48 baaaacon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 755 2011-03-26 04:24:05 <JFK911> new condition, wax seals intact, with manual
 756 2011-03-26 04:24:29 <JFK911> came in some military style ammo box real durable thing
 757 2011-03-26 04:24:32 EPiSKiNG has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds)
 758 2011-03-26 04:24:33 nick has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds)
 759 2011-03-26 04:25:10 <[Tycho]> I have many soviet equipment, but computers are much harder to find. (not including some popular models)
 760 2011-03-26 04:25:25 <JFK911> some examples of ussr silicon (even transistors) would have been cool to pick up
 761 2011-03-26 04:25:37 <JFK911> well
 762 2011-03-26 04:25:38 xenon481 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 763 2011-03-26 04:25:41 <JFK911> are you in moscow?
 764 2011-03-26 04:25:44 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 765 2011-03-26 04:25:47 <JFK911> ok
 766 2011-03-26 04:25:57 <JFK911> i went to mitinskii rinok on several weekends
 767 2011-03-26 04:26:41 <JFK911> wow, what fun that is
 768 2011-03-26 04:27:30 <JFK911> there was another market i went to also, but there were many different kinds of sellers there.  i forgot its name
 769 2011-03-26 04:28:25 <JFK911> in arbat i saw someone selling an old german typewriter with cyrillic type
 770 2011-03-26 04:28:54 <JFK911> i rarely saw anything interesting in arbat
 771 2011-03-26 04:29:09 <[Tycho]> Prices are way too high on arbat :)
 772 2011-03-26 04:29:15 <JFK911> hahaha
 773 2011-03-26 04:29:23 st-6603 has joined
 774 2011-03-26 04:29:24 <[Tycho]> It's for tourists.
 775 2011-03-26 04:29:50 Necr0s has joined
 776 2011-03-26 04:30:02 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: P3 is *ancient*
 777 2011-03-26 04:30:45 <JFK911> p3 had rambus cripple, didnt it
 778 2011-03-26 04:30:45 <[Tycho]> Not even close.
 779 2011-03-26 04:30:58 <JFK911> i didnt line it until it was pentium-m
 780 2011-03-26 04:30:59 <luke-jr> JFK911: my 800 MHz Pentium 3 easily outperformed 2 GHz P4s
 781 2011-03-26 04:31:00 <JFK911> *like
 782 2011-03-26 04:31:03 <Necr0s> ps2 had rambus.
 783 2011-03-26 04:31:12 <luke-jr> that's why Intel scrapped P4 architecture
 784 2011-03-26 04:31:16 <luke-jr> and went back to P3
 785 2011-03-26 04:31:31 <JFK911> luke-jr: thats likely if the p4 was a celeron
 786 2011-03-26 04:31:42 <JFK911> who had a 2ghz p4 anyway?
 787 2011-03-26 04:31:57 <luke-jr> …
 788 2011-03-26 04:32:15 <lfm> JFK911: I think everyone had a 2 ghz p4
 789 2011-03-26 04:32:24 <luke-jr> I skipped it
 790 2011-03-26 04:32:31 <luke-jr> I went from P3 to Athlon64
 791 2011-03-26 04:32:42 <Necr0s> from Gateway
 792 2011-03-26 04:32:44 <JFK911> ya, i was doing athlon because of the whole intel rambus garbage
 793 2011-03-26 04:32:51 <JFK911> and when i got sick of the blast furnace athlon
 794 2011-03-26 04:33:00 <JFK911> i got northwood 3.0 w/ ht
 795 2011-03-26 04:33:12 <luke-jr> P3 -> A64 -> SB
 796 2011-03-26 04:33:13 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 797 2011-03-26 04:33:50 <JFK911> did they fix the sata in that chipset for sandy bridge
 798 2011-03-26 04:33:50 <[Tycho]> I wouldn't believe about 800 outperforming a 2000. But Tualatin performed like 1.3x p4
 799 2011-03-26 04:34:10 <JFK911> because micro center has the 2600k on sale again
 800 2011-03-26 04:34:17 <JFK911> 280
 801 2011-03-26 04:34:20 <JFK911> usd$
 802 2011-03-26 04:34:25 <luke-jr> JFK911: yeah, but that's only 1 of like 3 problems
 803 2011-03-26 04:34:29 <JFK911> oh
 804 2011-03-26 04:34:33 <JFK911> rude
 805 2011-03-26 04:34:36 <JFK911> looks promising
 806 2011-03-26 04:34:44 <JFK911> intels multithreading is cooler now
 807 2011-03-26 04:34:55 <luke-jr> they won't fix VT-d
 808 2011-03-26 04:35:04 <JFK911> was vt-d supposed to work?
 809 2011-03-26 04:35:08 <luke-jr> so I have to wait and replace the board with a different model when Q67 comes out
 810 2011-03-26 04:35:09 <luke-jr> yes
 811 2011-03-26 04:35:21 <JFK911> what a hassle
 812 2011-03-26 04:35:37 <luke-jr> there's a few Q67, but only micro/mini ATX
 813 2011-03-26 04:35:39 <lfm> whats vt-d?
 814 2011-03-26 04:35:41 <luke-jr> no full ATX
 815 2011-03-26 04:35:49 <luke-jr> lfm: allows you to connect hardware direct to VMs
 816 2011-03-26 04:35:52 <JFK911> lfm: mmu like thing for i/o
 817 2011-03-26 04:35:58 <luke-jr> eg, run proprietary Radeon blobs in a VM
 818 2011-03-26 04:36:06 <JFK911> "pci steering" people used to call it
 819 2011-03-26 04:36:13 <lfm> cool
 820 2011-03-26 04:36:21 <luke-jr> so if the Radeon crashes, it doesn't take down the host OS
 821 2011-03-26 04:36:24 <JFK911> some i7-8xx chips have vt-d
 822 2011-03-26 04:36:34 <Necr0s> using xen?
 823 2011-03-26 04:36:36 <JFK911> they are still pricey
 824 2011-03-26 04:36:47 <JFK911> Necr0s: xen may support it, im pretty sure kvm does
 825 2011-03-26 04:36:49 <luke-jr> Necr0s: yeah, hopefully KVM too
 826 2011-03-26 04:36:59 <luke-jr> JFK911: Xen has working video passthrough
 827 2011-03-26 04:37:03 <luke-jr> KVM doesn't yet
 828 2011-03-26 04:37:52 <JFK911> do you need the iommu to use it
 829 2011-03-26 04:37:59 <luke-jr> …
 830 2011-03-26 04:38:02 <x420024x> Xen support DirectIO
 831 2011-03-26 04:38:13 <luke-jr> JFK911: without the IOMMU, the host OS needs to handle the hardware
 832 2011-03-26 04:38:14 <x420024x> I test this at work with 10GB NIC's all day
 833 2011-03-26 04:38:25 <luke-jr> x420024x: NIC != video
 834 2011-03-26 04:38:37 <x420024x> The directIO could also work with video though
 835 2011-03-26 04:38:52 <JFK911> nic = good i/o problem
 836 2011-03-26 04:38:58 <x420024x> It's a directIO to the PCIe bus from the VM.
 837 2011-03-26 04:39:04 <Necr0s> Can this DirectIO thing assign other hardware devices too?
 838 2011-03-26 04:39:08 <Necr0s> Like SATA controllers?
 839 2011-03-26 04:39:17 <Necr0s> Or iommu rather.
 840 2011-03-26 04:39:21 <x420024x> I only test PCIe
 841 2011-03-26 04:39:26 <luke-jr> Necr0s: to an extent I think
 842 2011-03-26 04:39:36 <luke-jr> Necr0s: IIRC, the PCI bus is all-or-nothing, for example
 843 2011-03-26 04:39:39 <x420024x> USB and SATA is someone elses job. :)
 844 2011-03-26 04:39:43 <lfm> you could put a sata adapter on pcie
 845 2011-03-26 04:39:49 <x420024x> yes
 846 2011-03-26 04:39:53 <Necr0s> hmmmmmm
 847 2011-03-26 04:39:59 <JFK911> i was interested in the iommu for telephony hardware
 848 2011-03-26 04:40:27 <x420024x> not sure about the telephony hardware.
 849 2011-03-26 04:40:54 <Necr0s> So...could I concievably run Windows, with one video card and the audio hardware assigned to it, and also run linux, with a couple sata controllers and another video card assigned to it, on the same hardware?
 850 2011-03-26 04:40:55 <luke-jr> PCI-e should be good… except video
 851 2011-03-26 04:40:59 <luke-jr> video has VGABIOS crap
 852 2011-03-26 04:41:09 <luke-jr> Necr0s: right
 853 2011-03-26 04:41:21 <Necr0s> hm, pretty cool.
 854 2011-03-26 04:41:21 <JFK911> video is a more difficult problem than other devices tho
 855 2011-03-26 04:41:41 <Necr0s> I assume I could also have a couple sets os USB keyboards/mice, and have one assigned to each, yes?
 856 2011-03-26 04:41:49 <x420024x> DirectI/O with Xen allows you to read/write to the device as though your not in a VM, but in fact your are in a VM.  When you pull the identity of a PCIe NIC from the VM, it looks exactly the same as it would in the Host OS.
 857 2011-03-26 04:42:12 <Necr0s> I think I will have to try this out.
 858 2011-03-26 04:42:20 <Necr0s> I've been needing something just like that.
 859 2011-03-26 04:42:24 <x420024x> The VM can't tell the difference.  Unlike with VMware, they emulate their PCIe shit on ESX.
 860 2011-03-26 04:42:44 <x420024x> VMware not good with DirectI/O yet, Xen is their.
 861 2011-03-26 04:43:05 <JFK911> i thought xen was able to allow some hardware access without the iommu anyway
 862 2011-03-26 04:43:08 <Necr0s> Is a 1st-gen i7 a suitable chip to use for that?
 863 2011-03-26 04:43:19 <JFK911> Necr0s: the 8xx that have vt-d
 864 2011-03-26 04:43:20 <Necr0s> (920)
 865 2011-03-26 04:43:24 <JFK911> no 9xx hav it
 866 2011-03-26 04:43:28 <Necr0s> wat
 867 2011-03-26 04:43:32 <JFK911> see wikipedia's list
 868 2011-03-26 04:43:33 <x420024x> Yes
 869 2011-03-26 04:43:48 <x420024x> I have an i7 with vt-d
 870 2011-03-26 04:43:55 <x420024x> it's awesome.
 871 2011-03-26 04:44:21 <x420024x> double check your BIOS, make sure it's enabled.
 872 2011-03-26 04:45:01 <Necr0s> The Intel site says it has it.
 873 2011-03-26 04:45:04 <x420024x> hell, the i3 and i5 have VT-d too.  Intel (where I work) is all about getting on the VM bandwagon right now.
 874 2011-03-26 04:45:19 <luke-jr> x420024x: then get them to fix Cougar Point H67
 875 2011-03-26 04:45:30 <luke-jr> instead of changing the stupid feature list after I buy
 876 2011-03-26 04:45:30 <x420024x> hehe
 877 2011-03-26 04:45:36 <kupo> I was looking at the AMD fusions for a bit
 878 2011-03-26 04:45:41 <x420024x> They do a lot of fucked up shit there
 879 2011-03-26 04:46:07 <JFK911> yeah why do you have to pay for a ZION to get ECC?
 880 2011-03-26 04:46:13 <JFK911> what's the big idea dude?
 881 2011-03-26 04:46:31 <x420024x> the fiber to copper adapters they have are flashed to work with any 1/10GB NIC, but the one's they release to market are flashed to only support Intel hardware.  Kinda fucked up if you ask me.
 882 2011-03-26 04:46:50 <x420024x> It's how they try and make money.
 883 2011-03-26 04:47:33 <x420024x> So just because a big company like Intel says publicly "It's not possible" doesn't mean shit.  They say half the things they do because it makes them more money.
 884 2011-03-26 04:47:51 <Necr0s> talking their book
 885 2011-03-26 04:47:58 <x420024x> away: dinner time
 886 2011-03-26 04:48:08 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
 887 2011-03-26 04:49:56 da2ce7 has joined
 888 2011-03-26 04:58:51 <luke-jr> lfm: so how do you actually get sse2_x64 mode?
 889 2011-03-26 04:59:20 bt2100 has joined
 890 2011-03-26 04:59:33 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 891 2011-03-26 05:04:01 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 14841
 892 2011-03-26 05:04:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14841 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 33 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 47 seconds
 893 2011-03-26 05:04:17 <luke-jr> (had to install yasm)
 894 2011-03-26 05:05:17 <lfm> luke-jr you need yasm
 895 2011-03-26 05:06:33 <luke-jr> lfm: I am wondering if I should throw CPU into a pool, or run with my own bitcoind along with my GPU
 896 2011-03-26 05:06:37 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 897 2011-03-26 05:06:51 <luke-jr> does it "combine" like that, or is each to be considered individually?
 898 2011-03-26 05:07:09 sgornick has joined
 899 2011-03-26 05:08:19 <lfm> well it gets a bit trcky to figure out if its worth it. you gotta decide how you allocate power consumption of the main system to cpu and gpu for cost effectivness. usually I think it is not worht it tho no matte rhow you divide it up
 900 2011-03-26 05:09:45 <lfm> with the standard exception that if you have free power then it is usually worth it
 901 2011-03-26 05:11:28 <lfm> as for choosing the host for the miner I generally set up the cpu to use the same server as the gpu on each system
 902 2011-03-26 05:12:17 <lfm> I guess some pools are not very welcoming to cpus tho so that might be a problem
 903 2011-03-26 05:13:11 <luke-jr> mwahaha
 904 2011-03-26 05:13:17 <luke-jr> my i5 beats i7 980x now :P
 905 2011-03-26 05:13:23 <luke-jr> maybe
 906 2011-03-26 05:13:28 <lfm> wtg
 907 2011-03-26 05:14:07 <luke-jr> AVX would probably be even better…
 908 2011-03-26 05:16:33 <luke-jr> lfm: is this algo the same as ufasoft's?
 909 2011-03-26 05:16:40 <[Tycho]> Pools are welcoming to everyone :)
 910 2011-03-26 05:16:45 <lfm> I think so ya
 911 2011-03-26 05:17:07 <Necr0s> hmm...Xen Server 4.1, released today...
 912 2011-03-26 05:20:48 Bosma has joined
 913 2011-03-26 05:26:08 <luke-jr> apparently AVX yields 3x performance over SSE
 914 2011-03-26 05:26:15 <luke-jr> so in theory …
 915 2011-03-26 05:26:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 43000
 916 2011-03-26 05:26:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 43000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 11 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 50 minutes, and 15 seconds
 917 2011-03-26 05:40:16 episking has joined
 918 2011-03-26 05:41:20 <episking> I wonder if the bitmining I'm doing is even worth the cost in electricity
 919 2011-03-26 05:42:44 <[Tycho]> CPU mining ?
 920 2011-03-26 05:42:55 <episking> either
 921 2011-03-26 05:42:56 dermoth has joined
 922 2011-03-26 05:43:06 <episking> I just ordered a 5870 for mining purposes
 923 2011-03-26 05:43:14 <episking> let's say i get 100MH/s
 924 2011-03-26 05:43:21 <episking> and it's 200 watts to do it
 925 2011-03-26 05:43:22 <[Tycho]> 5870 is great for mining
 926 2011-03-26 05:43:30 <[Tycho]> It's 340 MH/s
 927 2011-03-26 05:43:43 <episking> and I pay $0.14USD per kwh
 928 2011-03-26 05:44:06 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,calc 330000
 929 2011-03-26 05:44:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 330000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 22 minutes, and 43 seconds
 930 2011-03-26 05:44:11 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 330000
 931 2011-03-26 05:44:12 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 330000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4.81195556735 BTC per day and 0.20049814864 BTC per hour.
 932 2011-03-26 05:44:26 <episking> yaaaayyyy for irc commands
 933 2011-03-26 05:44:33 <episking> i need to not use the web interface...
 934 2011-03-26 05:44:48 <[Tycho]> Almost five times more than energy cost
 935 2011-03-26 05:45:06 <episking> 0.20049814864 > $0.14USD
 936 2011-03-26 05:45:43 <episking> but exchange rate avg today was ~$0.85USD per bitcoin, yes?
 937 2011-03-26 05:46:21 <[Tycho]> $0.14 is per 1 kw*h, but your rig is not takin 1 kW
 938 2011-03-26 05:46:34 <episking> I see
 939 2011-03-26 05:46:42 <episking> it's 200w
 940 2011-03-26 05:47:21 <episking> so it costs $0.02 per hour to run 200watts
 941 2011-03-26 05:47:23 <[Tycho]> Yes, if your PC would be 24/7 anyway.
 942 2011-03-26 05:49:48 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 200
 943 2011-03-26 05:49:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 46 years, 50 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes, and 16 seconds
 944 2011-03-26 05:50:18 <luke-jr> lulz
 945 2011-03-26 05:50:27 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#ARM
 946 2011-03-26 05:52:29 <episking> using your cell phone?
 947 2011-03-26 05:52:30 <episking> hah
 948 2011-03-26 05:52:57 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 75000
 949 2011-03-26 05:52:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 6 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes, and 1 second
 950 2011-03-26 05:53:03 <Diablo-D3> jesus 6 weeks
 951 2011-03-26 05:53:52 <luke-jr> episking: N900 is not a phone
 952 2011-03-26 05:54:21 <episking> Mh/w higher is better, right?
 953 2011-03-26 05:54:36 <luke-jr> episking: that measures efficiency
 954 2011-03-26 05:54:39 <luke-jr> yes
 955 2011-03-26 05:55:42 <episking> ;;bc,calc 100
 956 2011-03-26 05:55:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 93 years, 49 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 14 minutes, and 32 seconds
 957 2011-03-26 05:55:56 <luke-jr> XD
 958 2011-03-26 05:56:14 <episking> ;;bc,calc 100000
 959 2011-03-26 05:56:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 57 minutes, and 0 seconds
 960 2011-03-26 05:56:38 <episking> what happens when one generates a block?
 961 2011-03-26 05:56:44 <luke-jr> you get 50 BTC
 962 2011-03-26 05:57:42 <[Tycho]> (and some good things for network)
 963 2011-03-26 05:58:17 <luke-jr> you can buy a few pizzas for 50 BTC
 964 2011-03-26 05:58:42 <luke-jr> heck, you could probably start getting pizza every week off 100 MH/s :P
 965 2011-03-26 05:58:43 Validus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 966 2011-03-26 05:58:48 <luke-jr> except when it slows down
 967 2011-03-26 05:58:53 Validus has joined
 968 2011-03-26 06:00:42 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|Anyone considered they could heat their houses during winter and thus eliminate the energy costs? ;)
 969 2011-03-26 06:00:51 <luke-jr> …
 970 2011-03-26 06:00:55 <luke-jr> that's half my problem
 971 2011-03-26 06:01:00 <luke-jr> too hot
 972 2011-03-26 06:01:00 <episking> becasue of all the computing?
 973 2011-03-26 06:01:01 <episking> hah
 974 2011-03-26 06:01:08 <[Tycho]> Someone heats his bathroom floor with GPUs
 975 2011-03-26 06:01:17 <luke-jr> I need to start factoring in the cost of air conditioning :/
 976 2011-03-26 06:01:19 <episking> take liek 30 heatpipes and run them all over the house
 977 2011-03-26 06:01:30 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|use oil
 978 2011-03-26 06:01:36 <[Tycho]> Not heatpipes, but water :)
 979 2011-03-26 06:01:45 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|http://www.grcooling.com/
 980 2011-03-26 06:02:31 <episking> mineral oil ftw
 981 2011-03-26 06:02:35 <luke-jr> ..
 982 2011-03-26 06:02:41 <luke-jr> the problem is getting RID OF the heat
 983 2011-03-26 06:03:02 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|place it in a building in simeria and get paid for the heat
 984 2011-03-26 06:03:04 <luke-jr> maybe I should build a mining rig and put it outside
 985 2011-03-26 06:03:06 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|siberia
 986 2011-03-26 06:03:16 osmosis has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 987 2011-03-26 06:04:56 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|even in alaska, you can heat most of the year
 988 2011-03-26 06:05:43 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 989 2011-03-26 06:06:33 <luke-jr> I don't live in Alaska
 990 2011-03-26 06:06:35 <[Tycho]> It's not so effective at heating, only ~100%
 991 2011-03-26 06:07:27 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|what do you mean? where do you think your electricity goes? all into heat. You just need to distribute it properly, and this is where an oil bath can help
 992 2011-03-26 06:07:56 EPiSKinG- has joined
 993 2011-03-26 06:08:07 <luke-jr> dermoth|home: I dont want heat
 994 2011-03-26 06:08:26 <luke-jr> it's 58 outside, and it's 2 AM
 995 2011-03-26 06:08:30 <luke-jr> got plenty of heat
 996 2011-03-26 06:08:39 episking has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 997 2011-03-26 06:08:44 <[Tycho]> dermoth|home, you don't need oil bath for that
 998 2011-03-26 06:12:11 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|[Tycho], well, it depends on the size of the rig and building. If you fill your 42u with servers apcked with gpu's, tat's going to generate a lot of heat (you better have a good current source too)... and you paobably want to transfer it to a central heating system
 999 2011-03-26 06:12:30 <[Tycho]> By a watercooling.
1000 2011-03-26 06:13:17 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|otoh if you just fit 2 GPU's into your computer you can just leave it in the middle of the house... as long as it's cold outside (it's -5 in montreal right now) you'll save on heating costs
1001 2011-03-26 06:13:23 <[Tycho]> May be you meant voltage source, not a current source :)
1002 2011-03-26 06:13:45 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|by current Ijusy mean electricity...
1003 2011-03-26 06:14:50 <luke-jr> never cold here
1004 2011-03-26 06:14:57 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|but actually, unless you get something fancy you'll just use the standard 240v you get in houses, of in in an industrial building it's going to be 208v... it's really a current issue
1005 2011-03-26 06:15:15 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|more servers == more current
1006 2011-03-26 06:15:23 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|i.e. amps
1007 2011-03-26 06:16:26 <glassresistor> just switched from the c algorithm to the 4way on a i5 was twice as faster as the c
1008 2011-03-26 06:16:39 <EPiSKinG-> would it be a wise investment to buy 100 BTC?
1009 2011-03-26 06:16:46 <glassresistor> EPiSKinG-: yeah
1010 2011-03-26 06:17:00 <[Tycho]> Half a hour without blocks...
1011 2011-03-26 06:17:15 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|Well IMHO it's a bit risky at that time... you could do a whole lot of money, but oyu could also loose it all
1012 2011-03-26 06:17:18 <glassresistor> they are low right now, you could sell money when they are high again
1013 2011-03-26 06:18:20 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|yeah short team you can make money off small variation, as long as it doesn'T fall completely... long term, only future will tell
1014 2011-03-26 06:18:38 <luke-jr> EPiSKinG-: there's always a risk
1015 2011-03-26 06:20:44 <glassresistor> dermoth|home: thats the point, but things look up in my opinion, its much stronger than i expected it to be a year ago
1016 2011-03-26 06:21:03 TheKid has joined
1017 2011-03-26 06:21:04 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
1018 2011-03-26 06:21:04 TheKid has joined
1019 2011-03-26 06:21:19 <TheKid> ;;bc,gen 900000000
1020 2011-03-26 06:21:26 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 900000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 13123.5151837 BTC per day and 546.813132653 BTC per hour.
1021 2011-03-26 06:21:27 <TheKid> ;;bc,gen 900000
1022 2011-03-26 06:21:28 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 900000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 13.1235151837 BTC per day and 0.546813132653 BTC per hour.
1023 2011-03-26 06:22:51 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|glassresistor, otoh it's a first, there's still not so many users (5k on the internet is a small number) and there is no precedent...
1024 2011-03-26 06:24:06 <glassresistor> yeah, i guess im just blinded by the social profits
1025 2011-03-26 06:24:24 <glassresistor> like freedom of economy, and buy buy visa
1026 2011-03-26 06:24:47 <glassresistor> but yeah afew idiots selling 20% could dump the market
1027 2011-03-26 06:25:07 bitcoiner has joined
1028 2011-03-26 06:25:34 <glassresistor> and if visa offered 4$ a btc then they could own enough quick enough to kill the market
1029 2011-03-26 06:25:45 <glassresistor> but i just don't see it happening
1030 2011-03-26 06:26:02 <Blitzboom> glassresistor: don’t invest what you can’t afford to lose
1031 2011-03-26 06:26:19 <glassresistor> i've invested 0$s made well ...
1032 2011-03-26 06:26:21 <Blitzboom> but 100$ or whatever shouldn’t hurt you very much
1033 2011-03-26 06:28:35 <da2ce7> hey boys! https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4966.0
1034 2011-03-26 06:28:41 <da2ce7> 60 BTC up for grabs.
1035 2011-03-26 06:29:07 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|hey out of curiosity is there a way to plug a cpu/gpu miner into bitcoind? I don'T see much info about that...
1036 2011-03-26 06:29:29 <glassresistor> dermoth|home: just point them at your localhost
1037 2011-03-26 06:29:51 <glassresistor> i've used poclm and minerd like that
1038 2011-03-26 06:29:57 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|oh....
1039 2011-03-26 06:30:07 <lfm> dermoth|home: sure, that is the default
1040 2011-03-26 06:30:20 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|I was looking foe something more... dificult
1041 2011-03-26 06:30:43 <lfm> use the user/password from the bitcoin.config file
1042 2011-03-26 06:30:45 <glassresistor> haha yeah sometimes people don't put a web api and lo together
1043 2011-03-26 06:31:26 <glassresistor> i always save mine locally, unless i'm doing pooled mining
1044 2011-03-26 06:31:38 <glassresistor> and then im worried about the uptime of my wallet
1045 2011-03-26 06:32:44 <lfm> your wallet need not be up for pooled mining
1046 2011-03-26 06:32:50 <glassresistor> if mining were faster using lo might cause bottle neck problems but luckily(or not) getting valid keys isn't that quick
1047 2011-03-26 06:33:08 <glassresistor> lfm: to get the rewards
1048 2011-03-26 06:33:18 <lfm> exactly
1049 2011-03-26 06:33:31 <glassresistor> unless the pool, holds them for you and doesn't blindly send
1050 2011-03-26 06:33:37 <glassresistor> which i was never sure of
1051 2011-03-26 06:33:40 <lfm> the rewards are sent to the key wheather it is running or not
1052 2011-03-26 06:33:57 <lfm> the bitcoin net and block chain hold them
1053 2011-03-26 06:34:07 <glassresistor> what? really?
1054 2011-03-26 06:34:12 <lfm> really
1055 2011-03-26 06:34:26 <glassresistor> but can't i choose an address, after someone logs off
1056 2011-03-26 06:34:31 <[Tycho]> ;;bc.stats
1057 2011-03-26 06:34:32 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
1058 2011-03-26 06:34:35 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
1059 2011-03-26 06:34:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115101 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1826 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 49 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78457.15830623
1060 2011-03-26 06:34:51 <glassresistor> we go through them quickly so they cant be unique in time, right?
1061 2011-03-26 06:34:56 <[Tycho]> 45 minutes :)
1062 2011-03-26 06:35:51 <lfm> change em when you change em or not, they still work fine
1063 2011-03-26 06:36:12 <glassresistor> but someone else could scoop your address and get those coins?
1064 2011-03-26 06:36:40 <lfm> nope, it is public key, you have a private half of the key that only you have
1065 2011-03-26 06:37:16 <glassresistor> some times the "magic" of code stupifies me and i do it proffesionally
1066 2011-03-26 06:38:03 <lfm> clarkes law, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingusable from magic"
1067 2011-03-26 06:38:31 <glassresistor> lfm: nice reference catch
1068 2011-03-26 06:39:02 <lfm> ya he was talking about science fiction but it applies
1069 2011-03-26 06:39:47 <glassresistor> thats twice today, i also discovered that people losing coins doesn't hurt the network, up till then i thought 8 decimal places was a architectual requirement
1070 2011-03-26 06:40:01 <EPiSKinG-> best miner for windows?
1071 2011-03-26 06:40:06 EPiSKinG- is now known as EPiSKiNG
1072 2011-03-26 06:40:09 lookout has joined
1073 2011-03-26 06:40:15 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, poclbm
1074 2011-03-26 06:40:17 <glassresistor> lfm: aspects of science fiction and getting more and more true
1075 2011-03-26 06:40:20 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: what gpu do you have?
1076 2011-03-26 06:40:27 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: linux
1077 2011-03-26 06:40:33 <EPiSKiNG> nvidia atm, ati next week
1078 2011-03-26 06:41:19 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: I'd say diabol miner or the python miner from m0mchil
1079 2011-03-26 06:41:21 <EPiSKiNG> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0 is what i was looking for
1080 2011-03-26 06:41:44 <EPiSKiNG> is there much more increase in performance for a linux distro?
1081 2011-03-26 06:41:54 <[Tycho]> No.
1082 2011-03-26 06:42:03 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: more in reliability Id say
1083 2011-03-26 06:42:26 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: yes, for cpu miners because linux has a working priority system
1084 2011-03-26 06:42:37 <glassresistor> otherwise bitcoin makes it impossible to do anything
1085 2011-03-26 06:42:42 <EPiSKiNG> win7 has been rock solid for me, and cpu miners are very low ROI
1086 2011-03-26 06:43:11 <EPiSKiNG> 135 watts for 20MH/s ifff that
1087 2011-03-26 06:44:03 <glassresistor> do you plan on using a cpu miner? its basicall pointless
1088 2011-03-26 06:44:16 <glassresistor> and the nvidia / ati stack is pretty different
1089 2011-03-26 06:44:57 <glassresistor> if you have less than 1000 stream procs and your doing pooled mining youll get something like .2btc at day
1090 2011-03-26 06:45:13 <lookout> Is there a page I can read to find out what the miner does? (late to this discussion)
1091 2011-03-26 06:45:20 <[Tycho]> No, it's much more than 0.2
1092 2011-03-26 06:45:28 <glassresistor> lookout: it makes bitcoins
1093 2011-03-26 06:45:30 <EPiSKiNG> i have a 5870 on the way
1094 2011-03-26 06:45:37 <EPiSKiNG> and using a gtx260 now
1095 2011-03-26 06:45:39 <glassresistor> ah well thats the one to have
1096 2011-03-26 06:45:50 <EPiSKiNG> yeah, i did my research
1097 2011-03-26 06:46:11 <lookout> glassresistor: Free money?
1098 2011-03-26 06:46:23 <[Tycho]> It's not free :)
1099 2011-03-26 06:46:35 <lookout> Electricity etc, sure, but within the bitcoin system free?
1100 2011-03-26 06:46:48 * lookout gives an intrigued look
1101 2011-03-26 06:46:49 <[Tycho]> It's payment for supporting system.
1102 2011-03-26 06:46:49 <glassresistor> my box thats running at 120Mhash/s on mining.bitcoin.cz is getting ~.5-.7 btc a day
1103 2011-03-26 06:46:56 <lfm> lookout:  each hash is a sha256(sha256(80 byte block header))
1104 2011-03-26 06:47:22 <glassresistor> lookout: its very computationally expensive especially this late in the "game"
1105 2011-03-26 06:47:36 <glassresistor> but its definately not free
1106 2011-03-26 06:47:39 <manveru> heh
1107 2011-03-26 06:47:56 <[Tycho]> "definately" ?
1108 2011-03-26 06:47:58 <lookout> Well I've been running my regular old client for weeks and gotten nothing
1109 2011-03-26 06:48:00 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
1110 2011-03-26 06:48:01 <gribble> 68978.89245792
1111 2011-03-26 06:48:03 <manveru> since i don't have a gpu... i only make like 3000 khash/s
1112 2011-03-26 06:48:12 <glassresistor> lookout: you need to join a pool
1113 2011-03-26 06:48:26 <[Tycho]> lookout, solo CPU mining with standart client is pointless.
1114 2011-03-26 06:48:30 <glassresistor> otherwise its 50btc at a time or none at all, so basically for you none
1115 2011-03-26 06:48:59 <lookout> especially since I'm only able to do about 1337 khash/s
1116 2011-03-26 06:49:00 <lfm> lookout: so you basiclly need to perform about 68000 * 2^32 "hashes" to find 1 good block on avergae
1117 2011-03-26 06:49:06 <glassresistor> it would take your gpu >2months to make block of 50
1118 2011-03-26 06:49:14 <manveru> so a pool makes the 50 and splits them up depending on how much work one did?
1119 2011-03-26 06:49:23 <glassresistor> manveru: yeah
1120 2011-03-26 06:49:38 <lookout> How do we join a pool?
1121 2011-03-26 06:49:38 <[Tycho]> Welcome to my pool @ http://deepbit.net :)
1122 2011-03-26 06:49:42 <lookout> heh
1123 2011-03-26 06:49:49 <glassresistor> requires trusting the pool owner but plenty large ones exist with good reps
1124 2011-03-26 06:49:57 <manveru> well, would be nice if the client reflected that :)
1125 2011-03-26 06:50:13 martok604 has joined
1126 2011-03-26 06:50:17 <glassresistor> manveru: the client is only a small part of the global economy
1127 2011-03-26 06:50:35 <manveru> i noticed...
1128 2011-03-26 06:50:39 <glassresistor> and can't be responsible for every aspect of the community
1129 2011-03-26 06:50:46 <manveru> figured i'd be better off just buying directly
1130 2011-03-26 06:50:46 <lookout> All the places I've read about how bitcoin works haven't explained it very well
1131 2011-03-26 06:51:04 <manveru> but it's damn hard finding someone who accepts JPY
1132 2011-03-26 06:51:04 <Blitzboom> lookout: http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-decentralized-currency/
1133 2011-03-26 06:51:05 <lookout> Doing my best to fake it, lol
1134 2011-03-26 06:51:09 <Blitzboom> best overall explanation
1135 2011-03-26 06:51:11 <glassresistor> also the client is kindov vague i know of 4 or 5 miners and wallet managers
1136 2011-03-26 06:51:20 <Blitzboom> if you mean bitcoin in general
1137 2011-03-26 06:51:27 * EPiSKiNG uses deepbit
1138 2011-03-26 06:51:32 <manveru> glassresistor: well, the official one?
1139 2011-03-26 06:51:46 <manveru> from bitcoin.org
1140 2011-03-26 06:51:47 <glassresistor> by official you mean first
1141 2011-03-26 06:52:23 <manveru> dunno, there don't seem to be any other for archlinux
1142 2011-03-26 06:52:38 <EPiSKiNG> [Tycho] what's the difference between proporstional vs pay-per-share??
1143 2011-03-26 06:52:53 <glassresistor> and yeah its not the best and many people use a non-local wallet and the poclm miner and/or the minerd
1144 2011-03-26 06:52:56 Bosma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1145 2011-03-26 06:53:11 <glassresistor> manveru: bitcoin is archlinuxs repos?  you have to compile many of them
1146 2011-03-26 06:53:15 <glassresistor> and poclm is python
1147 2011-03-26 06:53:36 <glassresistor> and you need to install pyopencl for it to work along with your cards drivers
1148 2011-03-26 06:53:40 <manveru> it's in the arch user repos, not official
1149 2011-03-26 06:53:51 <glassresistor> cool, i guess
1150 2011-03-26 06:53:57 <glassresistor> not in debian
1151 2011-03-26 06:53:59 <manveru> well, as i said, i don't have a 3d card
1152 2011-03-26 06:54:27 <glassresistor> but yeah this is a fairly compile your own comminity until packages come out, which will be a while
1153 2011-03-26 06:54:28 <manveru> so buying BTC is way cheaper for me
1154 2011-03-26 06:55:02 <glassresistor> manveru: well power is cheap, how much is your time worth? and what equipment is already available
1155 2011-03-26 06:55:18 <manveru> heh
1156 2011-03-26 06:55:35 <glassresistor> manveru: but probably and i've got plenty to sell, join #bitcoin-otc for trading
1157 2011-03-26 06:55:46 <manveru> you take JPY?
1158 2011-03-26 06:55:56 <glassresistor> manveru: what is that?
1159 2011-03-26 06:56:02 <manveru> japanese yen
1160 2011-03-26 06:56:19 <glassresistor> no, sorry wouldn't know what to do with it
1161 2011-03-26 06:56:38 <manveru> and my equipment is a notebook... hence no powerful gpu or way to upgrade with one
1162 2011-03-26 06:56:58 <glassresistor> manveru: yeah i'd just do day trading if i were you
1163 2011-03-26 06:57:21 <glassresistor> but if jpy is hard to exchange into liberty dollars then mtgox will not work
1164 2011-03-26 06:57:25 <glassresistor> can you use paypal?
1165 2011-03-26 06:57:30 <manveru> yeah
1166 2011-03-26 06:57:37 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, with proportional you get fixed payment per every single small piece of work, submitted by you. With proportional you get your part of total work when the block is found.
1167 2011-03-26 06:57:46 <glassresistor> then you can use bitcoinmarket
1168 2011-03-26 06:57:48 <glassresistor> .org
1169 2011-03-26 06:57:49 <manveru> tried coinpal yesterday, but wasn't working
1170 2011-03-26 06:58:01 <manveru> works now, it seems
1171 2011-03-26 06:58:17 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1172 2011-03-26 06:58:26 <lfm> manveru: if all you got is that laptop you're best way to get bitcoin is to buy them on the market
1173 2011-03-26 06:58:58 <manveru> glassresistor: that looks like a parking site
1174 2011-03-26 06:58:58 skeledrew has joined
1175 2011-03-26 06:59:04 <glassresistor> manveru: you should join bitcoin-otc someone might by jpy off you
1176 2011-03-26 06:59:25 <lookout> bitcoinmarket.org is parked :|
1177 2011-03-26 06:59:31 <glassresistor> oops i meant .com
1178 2011-03-26 06:59:48 <glassresistor> my bad
1179 2011-03-26 06:59:49 <manveru> i asked a few times before, but there don't seem to be many people in japan :)
1180 2011-03-26 06:59:51 <lookout> wooo https only with an invalid cert
1181 2011-03-26 06:59:51 <lookout> epic
1182 2011-03-26 06:59:55 <[Tycho]> There is btcex.com for JPY, but noone trades JPY there.
1183 2011-03-26 06:59:57 <EPiSKiNG> [Tycho]>: what's the difference??  What should I choose if i have a 5870 running 12 hrs a day?
1184 2011-03-26 07:00:01 <lookout> oh nvm
1185 2011-03-26 07:00:36 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, on long term Proportional will give you ~7% more.
1186 2011-03-26 07:01:04 <glassresistor> does anyone know what mining.bitcoin.cz is using?
1187 2011-03-26 07:01:06 <[Tycho]> Why only 12 hours ?
1188 2011-03-26 07:01:09 <glassresistor> never thought to ask
1189 2011-03-26 07:01:20 <[Tycho]> glassresistor, what do you mean ?
1190 2011-03-26 07:01:22 st-6603 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1191 2011-03-26 07:01:26 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: probably windows downtime
1192 2011-03-26 07:01:27 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: start running it 24/7
1193 2011-03-26 07:01:28 <EPiSKiNG> cause i actually play games once in a while
1194 2011-03-26 07:01:46 <EPiSKiNG> and watch movies, and they skip when i use guiminer
1195 2011-03-26 07:01:53 <glassresistor> what metric they use for dividing block
1196 2011-03-26 07:02:05 <[Tycho]> Playing games for 12 hours in a row is bad for your health :)
1197 2011-03-26 07:02:15 <[Tycho]> glassresistor, score-based sharing.
1198 2011-03-26 07:02:41 <glassresistor> yeah thats what i meant, in linux there are obviously limits but i can tear down the miners and play starcraft or what h264
1199 2011-03-26 07:02:45 <glassresistor> watch*
1200 2011-03-26 07:02:54 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, with poclbm miner you can still watch movies on windows. Mining will be slower, but still going.
1201 2011-03-26 07:02:56 <glassresistor> hows that work?
1202 2011-03-26 07:02:59 <martok604> So curious: Does a cminer that finds a block prefer its own transactions? Could be a way around fees if so.
1203 2011-03-26 07:03:24 <[Tycho]> martok604, yes, My pool does this :)
1204 2011-03-26 07:03:46 <martok604> Tycho: Did you have to modify bitcoind?
1205 2011-03-26 07:03:49 <manveru> glassresistor: process priorities?
1206 2011-03-26 07:04:00 <[Tycho]> martok604, yes, of course.
1207 2011-03-26 07:04:11 <manveru> here bitcoin is at nice level 20 or so, so everything else has priority
1208 2011-03-26 07:04:19 <martok604> Tycho Ah ok so not something thery're gonna do by defaul then.
1209 2011-03-26 07:04:22 <lookout> bitcoin on windows would wipe out my system usability if I had a single core
1210 2011-03-26 07:04:24 <martok604> oy default
1211 2011-03-26 07:05:01 <lookout> dualcore and it's fine cause bitcoin doesn't multithread its search for hashes
1212 2011-03-26 07:05:09 <Mango-chan> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/video/nvidia-responds-complaints-newly-released-gtx-590-frying/
1213 2011-03-26 07:05:11 <Mango-chan> LOL
1214 2011-03-26 07:05:15 <glassresistor> lookout: yeah it does
1215 2011-03-26 07:05:19 <[Tycho]> martok604, why would someone do that by default ? Only a few users here can generate blocks fast enough.
1216 2011-03-26 07:05:26 <lookout> Not on my system it doesn't, glassresistor
1217 2011-03-26 07:05:38 <glassresistor> cause you set the proc limit to 1
1218 2011-03-26 07:05:46 <lookout> oh, maybe so
1219 2011-03-26 07:05:49 <glassresistor> yeah
1220 2011-03-26 07:05:58 <lookout> ahh yeh I did
1221 2011-03-26 07:06:07 <martok604> Tycho Why not? I have transactions pending at 0 confirms for a half day. If I find a block, I should prefer my own TXs in that block.
1222 2011-03-26 07:06:08 <glassresistor> it would be dumb otherwise, the process is completely parallel
1223 2011-03-26 07:06:21 <lookout> wooo, up to 2700 khash/s
1224 2011-03-26 07:06:24 <lookout> :|
1225 2011-03-26 07:06:35 <[Tycho]> martok604, what is your hashing speed ?
1226 2011-03-26 07:06:45 <glassresistor> lookout: thats reall sad
1227 2011-03-26 07:06:50 <martok604> Tycho 2ghs 
1228 2011-03-26 07:06:58 <[Tycho]> Oh, that's nice.
1229 2011-03-26 07:06:58 <lookout> glassresistor: Why?
1230 2011-03-26 07:07:15 <glassresistor> martok604: yeah congrates how many machines on that?
1231 2011-03-26 07:07:18 <[Tycho]> martok604, i think that luke-jr can give you patch for this.
1232 2011-03-26 07:07:36 <martok604> Tycho Just odd it isn't default though.
1233 2011-03-26 07:07:44 <glassresistor> lookout: check out the bitcoin difficulty calculator to see how long itll take you to make a block
1234 2011-03-26 07:07:50 <martok604> Tycho Because you'd think all pools would want to use it.
1235 2011-03-26 07:07:52 st-8688 has joined
1236 2011-03-26 07:08:08 <martok604> Only two machines.
1237 2011-03-26 07:08:14 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,stats
1238 2011-03-26 07:08:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115104 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1823 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 53 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78348.38483709
1239 2011-03-26 07:08:23 <[Tycho]> There is only five pools, and my pool already does this :)
1240 2011-03-26 07:08:40 <glassresistor> martok604: 8 cypress gpus i take it?
1241 2011-03-26 07:08:47 * martok604 nods.
1242 2011-03-26 07:08:51 <glassresistor> hot
1243 2011-03-26 07:08:58 <glassresistor> really jealos
1244 2011-03-26 07:10:18 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,commands?
1245 2011-03-26 07:10:18 <gribble> Error: "bc,commands?" is not a valid command.
1246 2011-03-26 07:10:24 <EPiSKiNG> what are valid commands?
1247 2011-03-26 07:10:36 <glassresistor> ;;guide
1248 2011-03-26 07:10:36 <gribble> Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
1249 2011-03-26 07:10:45 <glassresistor> ;;help
1250 2011-03-26 07:10:45 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1251 2011-03-26 07:10:54 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: ^^
1252 2011-03-26 07:11:10 <EPiSKiNG> !facts
1253 2011-03-26 07:11:41 <glassresistor> ;;facts
1254 2011-03-26 07:11:41 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
1255 2011-03-26 07:11:49 <glassresistor> it lied about !
1256 2011-03-26 07:11:52 <EPiSKiNG> i gotcha
1257 2011-03-26 07:11:58 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc
1258 2011-03-26 07:11:58 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
1259 2011-03-26 07:12:11 <glassresistor> ;;bc,mtgo
1260 2011-03-26 07:12:11 <gribble> Error: "bc,mtgo" is not a valid command.
1261 2011-03-26 07:12:12 <glassresistor> ;;bc,mtgox
1262 2011-03-26 07:12:13 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.89,"low":0.8534,"vol":5712,"buy":0.8534,"sell":0.869,"last":0.8535}}
1263 2011-03-26 07:12:22 <EPiSKiNG> 2ghs = how many BTC per 24 hrs?
1264 2011-03-26 07:12:26 * glassresistor simon says
1265 2011-03-26 07:12:41 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 2000000
1266 2011-03-26 07:12:43 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 29.1633670749 BTC per day and 1.21514029479 BTC per hour.
1267 2011-03-26 07:12:45 <glassresistor> less than youd think
1268 2011-03-26 07:13:17 <EPiSKiNG> how much power does it take
1269 2011-03-26 07:13:24 <glassresistor> ;;bc,gen 120000
1270 2011-03-26 07:13:25 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1.74980202449 BTC per day and 0.0729084176871 BTC per hour.
1271 2011-03-26 07:13:29 st-8688 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1272 2011-03-26 07:13:31 <lookout> so I guess I should just buy bitcoins instead of generating them
1273 2011-03-26 07:13:37 <lookout> not waste my electricity
1274 2011-03-26 07:13:42 <glassresistor> lookout: yes
1275 2011-03-26 07:13:47 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|;;bc,gen 10000
1276 2011-03-26 07:13:48 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.145816835374 BTC per day and 0.00607570147393 BTC per hour.
1277 2011-03-26 07:13:56 <lookout> hahaha
1278 2011-03-26 07:14:04 devsundar has joined
1279 2011-03-26 07:14:04 <lookout> ;;bc,gen 2500
1280 2011-03-26 07:14:06 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2500 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0364542088436 BTC per day and 0.00151892536848 BTC per hour.
1281 2011-03-26 07:14:14 <lookout> yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhh
1282 2011-03-26 07:14:34 <glassresistor> for just pennies a day, you can get crap
1283 2011-03-26 07:14:37 <lookout> thats like years before I get 50
1284 2011-03-26 07:14:42 <glassresistor> yeah
1285 2011-03-26 07:14:52 <lookout> Funny, I don't consider my computer slow
1286 2011-03-26 07:14:56 <lookout> but apparently it is :D
1287 2011-03-26 07:15:04 devsundar has left ()
1288 2011-03-26 07:15:29 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|lookout, or use a fast GPU, they're much more efficient
1289 2011-03-26 07:15:33 <martok604> Power is cheap here.
1290 2011-03-26 07:15:36 <glassresistor> i have a 6core with 1000stream procs, all overclocked and now only make 1.5btc a day
1291 2011-03-26 07:15:50 <lookout> huh
1292 2011-03-26 07:15:55 <lookout> yeah I have nothing near that speed
1293 2011-03-26 07:16:06 abbeytim has joined
1294 2011-03-26 07:16:06 <lookout> dualcore 3ghz and an 8600gs
1295 2011-03-26 07:16:08 <glassresistor> drop 600$ for 2gpu and in a year you can break even
1296 2011-03-26 07:16:29 <martok604> Indeed, not worth the investment today.
1297 2011-03-26 07:16:35 <[Tycho]> You don't know if you will break even.
1298 2011-03-26 07:16:36 <lookout> I have an 8800 ultra (heavy on processing) but not the psu to power it
1299 2011-03-26 07:16:41 <glassresistor> i've been mining for a year
1300 2011-03-26 07:16:51 <glassresistor> well 8months something like that
1301 2011-03-26 07:17:04 st-8806 has joined
1302 2011-03-26 07:17:08 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|lookout, Nvidia?
1303 2011-03-26 07:17:10 <[Tycho]> With current difficulty rise your profit will be negative in ~2 months
1304 2011-03-26 07:17:12 <glassresistor> when i started i was pulling 100btc a day with a dual core and no gpu
1305 2011-03-26 07:17:26 <EPiSKiNG> whhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt?
1306 2011-03-26 07:17:31 <lookout> dermoth|home yes!
1307 2011-03-26 07:17:32 <abbeytim> hi wow
1308 2011-03-26 07:17:54 <EPiSKiNG> but wasn't it only worth like $0.01USD / BTC
1309 2011-03-26 07:17:56 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|lookout, you cannot expect much out of nvidia... but ati's some of them apparently do >600Ghps
1310 2011-03-26 07:18:01 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: i kept it
1311 2011-03-26 07:18:01 <lfm> back then btc were only worth 6 cents
1312 2011-03-26 07:18:02 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|;;bc,gen 600000
1313 2011-03-26 07:18:03 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 8.74901012246 BTC per day and 0.364542088436 BTC per hour.
1314 2011-03-26 07:18:03 <glassresistor> till now
1315 2011-03-26 07:18:08 <lookout> woof! that's alot more
1316 2011-03-26 07:18:15 <lookout> Can ati write drivers yet?
1317 2011-03-26 07:18:24 <EPiSKiNG> so how many BTC do you have?
1318 2011-03-26 07:18:24 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|nm, i meen mhps
1319 2011-03-26 07:18:30 <EPiSKiNG> how much have you made from it?
1320 2011-03-26 07:18:35 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
1321 2011-03-26 07:18:55 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|I don't have one... i don't even have a capable GPU
1322 2011-03-26 07:18:58 <glassresistor> yeah, there was only one strategy for making money mining and it involved doing it 6months ago and selling them a month ago or in the future
1323 2011-03-26 07:19:19 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: thats private info
1324 2011-03-26 07:19:51 <lookout> do they valuate?
1325 2011-03-26 07:19:56 <lookout> once you've got em?
1326 2011-03-26 07:20:03 <lookout> or appreciate, I guess is the term
1327 2011-03-26 07:20:06 <glassresistor> was just trying to give you an idea of btc history
1328 2011-03-26 07:20:40 <glassresistor> lookout: its like stock they go with the market, only difference they get harder to make the more people try to make them
1329 2011-03-26 07:20:50 <lookout> mmm
1330 2011-03-26 07:20:53 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|lookout, no, but the device itself tend to valuate compared to real currencies
1331 2011-03-26 07:21:30 <abbeytim> my hd4250 says its opencl 1.1 and has the drivers but wont work
1332 2011-03-26 07:21:32 <lookout> I'm betting they'll become worth more as it becomes harder to get them
1333 2011-03-26 07:21:39 <glassresistor> yeah in a year it went from 0c to ~1$
1334 2011-03-26 07:21:39 <lookout> not sure if that's the case, but it sounds right
1335 2011-03-26 07:21:48 <Diablo-D3> abbeytim: what os, which version of catalyst
1336 2011-03-26 07:21:57 <abbeytim> 11.2
1337 2011-03-26 07:21:59 <glassresistor> lookout: its not necessarily correct
1338 2011-03-26 07:22:17 <glassresistor> and probably not important anymore, mining for much profit is over, so now it all market
1339 2011-03-26 07:22:35 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|abbeytim, 42xx isn't supported, see my link
1340 2011-03-26 07:22:54 <glassresistor> pycopencl is compile for nvidia on ubuntu and other linux platforms
1341 2011-03-26 07:22:59 <glassresistor> pip install it instead
1342 2011-03-26 07:23:04 <lfm> abbeytim: hd4250 should work
1343 2011-03-26 07:23:06 <glassresistor> or nm thanks dermoth|home
1344 2011-03-26 07:23:22 <abbeytim> wk thanks
1345 2011-03-26 07:23:33 abbeytim has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1346 2011-03-26 07:23:53 <Diablo-D3> 4250 should work fine
1347 2011-03-26 07:23:56 <Diablo-D3> its just slow as fuck
1348 2011-03-26 07:24:01 <Diablo-D3> heh
1349 2011-03-26 07:24:06 <Diablo-D3> the dude left
1350 2011-03-26 07:24:22 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
1351 2011-03-26 07:25:16 <lfm> Diablo-D3: the wiki sez 42xx is a mobil chip not supprted by opencl
1352 2011-03-26 07:28:19 <EPiSKiNG> but the value of the BTC is controlled, yes?
1353 2011-03-26 07:28:31 <EPiSKiNG> noooo.. the volume right?
1354 2011-03-26 07:28:41 <lfm> no, it is floating market valued
1355 2011-03-26 07:29:10 <EPiSKiNG> so the value of each part should eventually lead to a demand for BTC, yes?
1356 2011-03-26 07:29:44 devsundar has joined
1357 2011-03-26 07:29:46 <glassresistor> demand come from ease and anonymity of use
1358 2011-03-26 07:30:07 <EPiSKiNG> ie: local coffee shop using it for purchases
1359 2011-03-26 07:30:11 <glassresistor> or expectation of a raise in value
1360 2011-03-26 07:30:33 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: or online illegal dealing or money laundering
1361 2011-03-26 07:31:15 <lfm> thats covered under ananymity of use
1362 2011-03-26 07:31:43 <EPiSKiNG> anonymity
1363 2011-03-26 07:31:46 <glassresistor> just saying local coffee shops will be last
1364 2011-03-26 07:32:01 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1365 2011-03-26 07:32:45 <EPiSKiNG> how much, given the previous year, would a one year investment of 250MH/s?
1366 2011-03-26 07:33:13 <lfm> last year or next year?
1367 2011-03-26 07:33:58 <EPiSKiNG> what was the percent change in the last year?
1368 2011-03-26 07:34:48 <Blitzboom> i suggest you see for yourself
1369 2011-03-26 07:34:50 <Blitzboom> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#vztgSzm1g10zm2g25
1370 2011-03-26 07:35:01 <Blitzboom> and for hashrate http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png
1371 2011-03-26 07:35:22 <lfm>  Difficulty:1d00c428 = 1.30506,  2010-01-11 22:48:37
1372 2011-03-26 07:35:24 <lfm>  Difficulty:1d00c428 = 1.30506,  2010-01-11 22:48:37
1373 2011-03-26 07:35:34 <lfm>  Difficulty:1b0404cb = 16307.4,  2011-01-03 05:10:11
1374 2011-03-26 07:35:49 <lfm> so from 1.30506 to 16307.4
1375 2011-03-26 07:38:21 Ruudjah has joined
1376 2011-03-26 07:39:07 <lfm> or if you meant from one year ago to today ... Difficulty:1c381375 = 4.56516,  2010-03-21 22:54:24 ---- Difficulty:1c381375 = 4.56516,  2010-03-21 22:54:24
1377 2011-03-26 07:39:40 <lfm> ie from 4.5 to  69000
1378 2011-03-26 07:41:02 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,estimate
1379 2011-03-26 07:41:02 <gribble> 77772.37722729
1380 2011-03-26 07:41:10 justmoon has joined
1381 2011-03-26 07:41:10 justmoon has quit (Changing host)
1382 2011-03-26 07:41:10 justmoon has joined
1383 2011-03-26 07:41:21 <Diablo-D3> [03:23:58] <lfm> Diablo-D3: the wiki sez 42xx is a mobil chip not supprted by opencl
1384 2011-03-26 07:41:31 <Diablo-D3> 42xx hrn
1385 2011-03-26 07:41:33 adlsaks has joined
1386 2011-03-26 07:41:43 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if thats an igp
1387 2011-03-26 07:41:52 <Diablo-D3> too lazy to look
1388 2011-03-26 07:47:24 <lfm> igp == integrated graphics processor? ya, for laptops and on motherboards
1389 2011-03-26 07:48:09 <Diablo-D3> yeah, its in northbridges
1390 2011-03-26 07:48:16 <Diablo-D3> they dont do opencl
1391 2011-03-26 07:49:27 MartianW has joined
1392 2011-03-26 07:49:51 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
1393 2011-03-26 07:56:34 <theymos> Bitcoin Block Explorer will be down for an hour or two, starting 5 minutes from now. Don't ask gribble for anything requiring stats or it'll give errors.
1394 2011-03-26 07:58:33 devsundar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1395 2011-03-26 08:03:44 st-8806 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1396 2011-03-26 08:07:01 RazielZ has joined
1397 2011-03-26 08:07:44 <x420024x> I just switched to poclbm-mod from poclbm and love the detailed stats
1398 2011-03-26 08:09:08 <x420024x> why doesnt poclbm show this level of detail?
1399 2011-03-26 08:09:42 <Diablo-D3> because a) most of the stats are useless, b) my miner has all the stats you need
1400 2011-03-26 08:10:19 <x420024x> i haven't tried your miner, which one is it?
1401 2011-03-26 08:10:27 <x420024x> url?
1402 2011-03-26 08:11:41 <x420024x> does it work with windows?
1403 2011-03-26 08:11:54 <Diablo-D3> DiabloMiner, its on the forum, yes.
1404 2011-03-26 08:12:41 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1405 2011-03-26 08:17:39 <x420024x> instructions for your miner to work with a pool??
1406 2011-03-26 08:17:54 <x420024x> not on the main thread on the forums
1407 2011-03-26 08:18:39 <x420024x> great if I wanted to mine locally
1408 2011-03-26 08:19:17 <x420024x> care to explain how to do that?
1409 2011-03-26 08:19:43 <x420024x> nothing in the readme either...
1410 2011-03-26 08:19:56 <x420024x> which would be the obvious place to look first.
1411 2011-03-26 08:19:56 <Blitzboom> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0
1412 2011-03-26 08:19:58 <Blitzboom> use this
1413 2011-03-26 08:20:25 TheAncientGoat has joined
1414 2011-03-26 08:20:45 <x420024x> that's great, but where is the documentation for diablo's miner?
1415 2011-03-26 08:21:19 <x420024x> ah ha, "-h"
1416 2011-03-26 08:21:26 <x420024x> didn't mention that anywhere
1417 2011-03-26 08:21:43 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: most programs do -h, -?, or --help
1418 2011-03-26 08:21:57 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: and pools SHOULD be generating urls for DiabloMiner now anyhow
1419 2011-03-26 08:21:59 <x420024x> yes, i'm aware
1420 2011-03-26 08:22:01 <Diablo-D3> if they're not, bitch loudly
1421 2011-03-26 08:22:46 <x420024x> I just figured you as the author would have had some better documentation about your miner in the readme or on the first post on your thread.
1422 2011-03-26 08:22:54 <x420024x> forgive me for being wrong.
1423 2011-03-26 08:23:40 <lfm> ya Diablo-D3 is too arrogant to write documentation
1424 2011-03-26 08:24:19 <Diablo-D3> lfm: its not that
1425 2011-03-26 08:24:24 <Diablo-D3> I already bitched at least slush here
1426 2011-03-26 08:24:31 <Diablo-D3> more miners than just mine support --url
1427 2011-03-26 08:25:25 <x420024x> lfm:  I picked up on that
1428 2011-03-26 08:25:40 <Diablo-D3> why make it hard for users
1429 2011-03-26 08:25:48 <Diablo-D3> just emit the proper command on the pool site
1430 2011-03-26 08:26:12 <x420024x> so it's up to the pools to figure out how to use this damn thing, and it's their responsibilty to provide documentation for your software.
1431 2011-03-26 08:26:24 <x420024x> really cool dude
1432 2011-03-26 08:26:25 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: not at all
1433 2011-03-26 08:26:40 <Diablo-D3> because at least mine and m0's use nearly identical command lines
1434 2011-03-26 08:27:22 <Diablo-D3> -u -p -o -r
1435 2011-03-26 08:27:28 <lfm> true m0's isnt documented any better
1436 2011-03-26 08:27:44 <x420024x> really, how hard would it be for your to take the output from "-h" and copy/paste it into the readme.  It'd take you 10 seconds to do, and would safe a lot of people a lot of time searching for this.
1437 2011-03-26 08:27:49 <x420024x> maybe put it on the main post too.
1438 2011-03-26 08:27:58 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: you're talking to a Linux user.
1439 2011-03-26 08:28:05 <x420024x> obviously
1440 2011-03-26 08:28:17 <x420024x> in a world with 80% windows still...
1441 2011-03-26 08:28:27 <Diablo-D3> all the major miners use linux exclusively.
1442 2011-03-26 08:28:34 <bt2100> cpuminer supports the same command line options as diablominer i believe
1443 2011-03-26 08:28:50 <lfm> some differences
1444 2011-03-26 08:28:58 <lfm> maybe just bugs
1445 2011-03-26 08:29:22 <Diablo-D3> infact, I bet over 3/4 of the raw mining power out there is on linux only
1446 2011-03-26 08:30:04 <bt2100> i run 15+ miner clients all linux
1447 2011-03-26 08:30:24 <lfm> I agree, seems to me theres not much point in supporting mswin
1448 2011-03-26 08:30:38 <x420024x> yeah, and I have both linux and windows running this now
1449 2011-03-26 08:30:38 <bt2100> i'm glad there is so much support for linux clients
1450 2011-03-26 08:30:54 <x420024x> so what your saying is windows users get to fuck off?
1451 2011-03-26 08:31:09 <bt2100> no, i'm saying that i'm used to having less support because i run linux
1452 2011-03-26 08:31:16 <lfm> naw, they can use there own software
1453 2011-03-26 08:31:36 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: not fuck off exactly, but even video card manufacturers are telling users to fuck off for opencl
1454 2011-03-26 08:31:36 <bt2100> not trying to start a holy war, x420024x.
1455 2011-03-26 08:31:42 <Diablo-D3> the only way to get worse is use osx
1456 2011-03-26 08:31:52 <x420024x> that I agree with
1457 2011-03-26 08:32:00 <Diablo-D3> apple is REALLY fucking over opencl users
1458 2011-03-26 08:32:04 <x420024x> so this -D flag?  What options does that have?
1459 2011-03-26 08:32:14 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: magic numbers.
1460 2011-03-26 08:32:26 <Diablo-D3> by default my miner uses all gpus
1461 2011-03-26 08:32:37 <Diablo-D3> you only use it to select specific gpus and not others
1462 2011-03-26 08:32:46 <x420024x> (again, serious lack of documentation)
1463 2011-03-26 08:32:59 <bt2100> whatever that feature is handy if you have more than one video card
1464 2011-03-26 08:33:03 <bt2100> and don't wanna chew up resources
1465 2011-03-26 08:33:09 <bt2100> stop bitching about documentation
1466 2011-03-26 08:33:14 <bt2100> learn how to use the fucking command line
1467 2011-03-26 08:33:17 <bt2100> </rant>
1468 2011-03-26 08:33:18 <x420024x> that's awesome, your miner crashes after 30 seconds of running.
1469 2011-03-26 08:33:21 * bt2100 goes to smoke
1470 2011-03-26 08:33:24 <x420024x> fuck you
1471 2011-03-26 08:33:28 <x420024x> I am using command liine
1472 2011-03-26 08:33:38 <x420024x> and -h does say shit about what fucking device to use
1473 2011-03-26 08:33:41 <bt2100> then use some intuition as well please
1474 2011-03-26 08:33:52 <x420024x> at least poclbm lists the available devices
1475 2011-03-26 08:33:53 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: its not exactly "what", as every machine is different
1476 2011-03-26 08:34:01 <Diablo-D3> you have to guess the numbers by trial and error
1477 2011-03-26 08:34:07 <Diablo-D3> dont like it? bitch at khronos.
1478 2011-03-26 08:34:18 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt require uniquely named strings for cards
1479 2011-03-26 08:34:38 <x420024x> how about I just go back to using poclbm-mod.  At least they documented their miner, give examples, and have the most stats.
1480 2011-03-26 08:34:41 <Diablo-D3> and my miner lists all devices when it starts up
1481 2011-03-26 08:34:43 <lfm> why is sun trying to update its security cert?
1482 2011-03-26 08:35:02 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: btw, my miner WILL hit driver bugs in badly designed drivers
1483 2011-03-26 08:35:13 <Diablo-D3> and no, theres no way to fix that
1484 2011-03-26 08:35:51 <x420024x> well, based on the quality of your miner, and your arrogant attitude, you've made my decision for me.  Thanks buddy.
1485 2011-03-26 08:36:10 <x420024x> poclbm-mod FTW then
1486 2011-03-26 08:37:25 <bt2100> x420024x: you could try "google" 's bitcoin miner... http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/
1487 2011-03-26 08:37:32 dissipate has joined
1488 2011-03-26 08:37:36 <Diablo-D3> ahh, so you're going to be one of those users that blame software authors for driver bugs?
1489 2011-03-26 08:37:38 <Diablo-D3> awesome.
1490 2011-03-26 08:37:45 <x420024x> no
1491 2011-03-26 08:38:57 <x420024x> your just being an ass when I asked basic questions.  Plus finding any documentation is up to the pools, not you?  WTF.  Document your code dude.  That's the very minimum you could do.  Put shit in a example.txt or fucking readme file.
1492 2011-03-26 08:39:26 <x420024x> it's not rocket science, but I guess it is in your book.
1493 2011-03-26 08:39:55 <x420024x> attitude + no documenation == nobody using your code.  End of story.
1494 2011-03-26 08:40:10 <x420024x> g'night.
1495 2011-03-26 08:40:17 <Diablo-D3> x420024x: except I have one of the most used miners.
1496 2011-03-26 08:40:21 <Diablo-D3> but, whatever
1497 2011-03-26 08:41:18 <x420024x> i guess that explains the attitude and ego then.
1498 2011-03-26 08:42:47 <Diablo-D3> its roughly a 60/40 poclbm/diablominer split as far as I can tell
1499 2011-03-26 08:42:57 <Diablo-D3> most of the multi-gpu and/or pool users switch to mine
1500 2011-03-26 08:43:10 <Mango-chan> can someone tell me why the hd800s are so fucking sexy
1501 2011-03-26 08:43:17 <Diablo-D3> wtf is a hd800
1502 2011-03-26 08:43:31 <Mango-chan> one of the best headphones in the world
1503 2011-03-26 08:43:35 <Mango-chan> 1400$
1504 2011-03-26 08:43:37 <Diablo-D3> oh
1505 2011-03-26 08:43:48 <Diablo-D3> I have a pair of sennheiser hd280pros
1506 2011-03-26 08:43:50 <Diablo-D3> <3
1507 2011-03-26 08:44:19 <Mango-chan> http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/products.nsf/resources/E5B8DEA155C44FD6C12575380044F35D/$File/HD_800_IntroImage.jpg
1508 2011-03-26 08:44:20 <Mango-chan> so
1509 2011-03-26 08:44:21 <Mango-chan> sexy
1510 2011-03-26 08:44:54 <Diablo-D3> Mango-chan: I dont like open phones
1511 2011-03-26 08:45:20 Silverpike has joined
1512 2011-03-26 08:45:21 <Diablo-D3> and I bet they dont sound all that better than 595s
1513 2011-03-26 08:45:27 <Mango-chan> what
1514 2011-03-26 08:45:28 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1515 2011-03-26 08:45:28 <Mango-chan> are you kidding me
1516 2011-03-26 08:45:38 <Mango-chan> they're the top of the line
1517 2011-03-26 08:45:40 <Mango-chan> ...
1518 2011-03-26 08:45:46 <Mango-chan> lol 595s are nothing compared to them
1519 2011-03-26 08:45:55 <Mango-chan> you're comparing 200$ vs 1400$
1520 2011-03-26 08:46:02 <Mango-chan> nonetheless
1521 2011-03-26 08:46:05 <Mango-chan> i'll buy them for looks
1522 2011-03-26 08:46:07 <Mango-chan> argh so sexy
1523 2011-03-26 08:46:09 <Diablo-D3> heh.
1524 2011-03-26 08:46:25 <Diablo-D3> you're talking to someone that can hear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and the original
1525 2011-03-26 08:46:40 <Mango-chan> lol
1526 2011-03-26 08:46:53 <Diablo-D3> and someone who has a somewhat hacked audiotrak prodigy hd2 for a soundcard
1527 2011-03-26 08:47:06 <Diablo-D3> Im more than happy with my hd280pros.
1528 2011-03-26 08:51:17 <glassresistor> anyone want a nvidia 450 gts with 1gig gddr5?
1529 2011-03-26 08:51:46 <glassresistor> not great for mining but great for games or bluray
1530 2011-03-26 08:52:50 <glassresistor> also have hd 5750, laying around
1531 2011-03-26 08:53:28 <lfm> I'd take one if it was free and I didn't need to pay for delivery
1532 2011-03-26 08:54:08 m00p has joined
1533 2011-03-26 08:54:10 <glassresistor> neither i'd sell the nvidia for 80btc plus delivery and the radeon for 90
1534 2011-03-26 08:54:28 <Diablo-D3> heh
1535 2011-03-26 08:54:31 <glassresistor> also have a sli cable for the nvidia
1536 2011-03-26 08:54:36 <Diablo-D3> I can buy the radeon for less
1537 2011-03-26 08:54:45 <glassresistor> for 80$?
1538 2011-03-26 08:55:07 <glassresistor> they sell for 120 or so online and 140 in stored
1539 2011-03-26 08:55:08 <glassresistor> s
1540 2011-03-26 08:55:20 <Diablo-D3> a 5750?
1541 2011-03-26 08:55:27 <glassresistor> yeah
1542 2011-03-26 08:55:31 <lfm> I paid 105 for my 5770 which is better
1543 2011-03-26 08:55:39 <Diablo-D3> $90 after rebate.
1544 2011-03-26 08:56:03 <glassresistor> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=radeon+hd+5750&x=0&y=0
1545 2011-03-26 08:56:15 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150528
1546 2011-03-26 08:56:22 <Diablo-D3> $89.99 after rebate
1547 2011-03-26 08:57:12 <glassresistor> ah missed the rebate, but yeah its basically new, used for 2 weeks, and im seeling for ~80$ plus shipping
1548 2011-03-26 08:57:21 <glassresistor> maybe 70
1549 2011-03-26 08:57:37 <Diablo-D3> or you could just donate it to me to further development of my miner ;)
1550 2011-03-26 08:57:37 genjix has quit (Quit: leaving)
1551 2011-03-26 08:57:40 genjix_ has joined
1552 2011-03-26 08:57:48 genjix_ is now known as genjix
1553 2011-03-26 08:58:01 <glassresistor> its not a huge discount but if you wanted the card or one similar its a good deal, also its an evga and setup for ocing
1554 2011-03-26 08:58:16 <Diablo-D3> hrrrrrrm evga, not sure if want :<
1555 2011-03-26 08:58:42 <glassresistor> im too broke, i'd do it for less to a dev, but i'd need atleast 60btc
1556 2011-03-26 08:59:10 <glassresistor> oh sorry thats the nvidia the radeon of gigbyte
1557 2011-03-26 08:59:27 <glassresistor> also with extra 2oz copper for cooling
1558 2011-03-26 09:00:40 <glassresistor> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125328&Tpk=radeon%20hd%205750
1559 2011-03-26 09:02:18 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1560 2011-03-26 09:02:24 <Diablo-D3> jesus, thats almost as big as my cooler
1561 2011-03-26 09:02:55 <glassresistor> yeah but it handle 900Mhz
1562 2011-03-26 09:03:14 <glassresistor> compared to 700Mhz, by default
1563 2011-03-26 09:03:28 <genjix> wtf is wrong with ssl registrars. why is it so hard.
1564 2011-03-26 09:03:41 <glassresistor> genjix: money
1565 2011-03-26 09:04:03 <Diablo-D3> genjix: security
1566 2011-03-26 09:04:14 <lfm> cuz x86 instruction set is evolved for 40 years gathering cruft
1567 2011-03-26 09:04:20 <glassresistor> Diablo-D3: security is cheap
1568 2011-03-26 09:04:46 <glassresistor> advertising and getting IE to check your server si expensive
1569 2011-03-26 09:05:13 <genjix> they gave me 3 random ass files: britcoin.co.uk.key britcoin.co.uk gd_bundle.crt... i do cat britcoin.co.uk gd_bundle.crt > britcoin_combined.crt for the cert, and use the other one for the key.. doesn't work.
1570 2011-03-26 09:05:49 <Diablo-D3> genjix: sounds like you need to rtfm.
1571 2011-03-26 09:05:52 <lfm> oh you published the private key and kept the public key?
1572 2011-03-26 09:06:08 <Diablo-D3> yeah and it sounds like you did it backwards
1573 2011-03-26 09:06:54 malfy has joined
1574 2011-03-26 09:07:01 <genjix> well the manual says i need different files: .key, .pem and .cer (crtificate authority file)
1575 2011-03-26 09:07:15 <genjix> but they've given me these random files.
1576 2011-03-26 09:07:40 <glassresistor> yep
1577 2011-03-26 09:08:06 <Diablo-D3> genjix: you were given key pem and cer
1578 2011-03-26 09:08:19 <Diablo-D3> britcoin.co.uk.key britcoin.co.uk gd_bundle.crt
1579 2011-03-26 09:08:20 <glassresistor> you need to add the cert to apache or whatever server your using
1580 2011-03-26 09:08:22 <Diablo-D3> in that order too
1581 2011-03-26 09:08:44 <genjix> i see. thanks Diablo-D3 ... let me try that
1582 2011-03-26 09:08:47 Meelu has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1583 2011-03-26 09:09:03 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1584 2011-03-26 09:09:13 Meelu has joined
1585 2011-03-26 09:09:44 sgornick has joined
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1587 2011-03-26 09:11:40 <genjix> SSLCACertificateFile
1588 2011-03-26 09:11:42 Meelu has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1589 2011-03-26 09:12:11 <genjix>      SSLCertificateFile /etc/apache2/ssl/britcoin.co.uk.crt
1590 2011-03-26 09:12:11 <genjix>      SSLCertificateKeyFile /etc/apache2/ssl/britcoin.co.uk.key
1591 2011-03-26 09:12:11 <genjix>      SSLCACertificateFile  /etc/apache2/ssl/gd_bundle.crt
1592 2011-03-26 09:12:13 Meelu has joined
1593 2011-03-26 09:12:14 <genjix> that fails
1594 2011-03-26 09:12:15 ousado_ has joined
1595 2011-03-26 09:12:26 <Diablo-D3> make sure you're doing that right
1596 2011-03-26 09:12:40 <genjix> it works with a self signed cert.
1597 2011-03-26 09:12:47 <genjix> apache doesn't say which is wrong either.
1598 2011-03-26 09:12:59 nameless1 has joined
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1617 2011-03-26 09:17:53 SanguineRose_ is now known as SanguineRose
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1626 2011-03-26 09:39:28 <mizerydearia> Does anyone know who runs Bidding Pond?
1627 2011-03-26 09:40:18 grondilu has joined
1628 2011-03-26 09:40:28 <grondilu> Is blockexplorer dead or something?
1629 2011-03-26 09:40:29 Spenvo has joined
1630 2011-03-26 09:40:50 <theymos> Down for maintenance. It'll be back in 15-30 minutes.
1631 2011-03-26 09:41:23 <grondilu> ok
1632 2011-03-26 09:41:44 grondilu has quit (Client Quit)
1633 2011-03-26 09:44:24 <Spenvo> yea? from what irc?
1634 2011-03-26 09:44:31 genjix is now known as twitter
1635 2011-03-26 09:44:32 <Spenvo> whoops sorry
1636 2011-03-26 09:44:36 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1641 2011-03-26 09:53:44 <theymos> Bitcoin Block Explorer is back.
1642 2011-03-26 09:59:45 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
1643 2011-03-26 09:59:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115123 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1804 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 77869.67201522
1644 2011-03-26 10:00:16 lfm has quit (Quit: zzzz)
1645 2011-03-26 10:04:26 adlsaks has joined
1646 2011-03-26 10:14:59 <theorbtwo> Do people think that writing https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification as an internet-draft, with an aim to making it into an RFC is a worthy project?
1647 2011-03-26 10:15:11 twitter is now known as {-_-}
1648 2011-03-26 10:18:58 Zarutian has joined
1649 2011-03-26 10:20:08 nrdb has joined
1650 2011-03-26 10:20:09 noot has joined
1651 2011-03-26 10:21:16 <nrdb> hi
1652 2011-03-26 10:35:49 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1653 2011-03-26 10:35:50 <gribble> 115123
1654 2011-03-26 10:37:27 x420024x has joined
1655 2011-03-26 10:39:27 noagendamarket has joined
1656 2011-03-26 10:48:16 <joepie92> morning all.
1657 2011-03-26 10:48:26 <joepie92> err.
1658 2011-03-26 10:48:29 joepie92 is now known as joepie91
1659 2011-03-26 10:50:58 <molecular> moin joepie91
1660 2011-03-26 10:51:11 <joepie91> ohai molecular
1661 2011-03-26 10:51:21 <molecular> "Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 111" <- mtgox says this to me ;(
1662 2011-03-26 10:51:34 <joepie91> usually means mysql is down
1663 2011-03-26 10:51:36 <joepie91> :P
1664 2011-03-26 10:51:40 <molecular> yeah, looks like it ;)
1665 2011-03-26 10:51:46 <joepie91> it's an odd error though
1666 2011-03-26 10:51:51 <joepie91> usually you get cannot connect
1667 2011-03-26 10:51:58 <joepie91> but sometimes for some odd reason it gives this error
1668 2011-03-26 10:52:08 <molecular> seems the socket allows connection, but no data
1669 2011-03-26 10:52:14 <joepie91> ye
1670 2011-03-26 10:52:20 <joepie91> that is the odd thing
1671 2011-03-26 10:52:27 <joepie91> I can't think of a situation that is not config related
1672 2011-03-26 10:52:29 <joepie91> that would make that happen
1673 2011-03-26 10:52:42 <molecular> who is owner of mtgox now again?
1674 2011-03-26 10:52:52 <joepie91> I have absolutely no idea
1675 2011-03-26 10:53:02 <joepie91> wait
1676 2011-03-26 10:53:05 <molecular> It changed owner.. don't remember who's responsible now ;)
1677 2011-03-26 10:53:05 <joepie91> it was being sold right?
1678 2011-03-26 10:53:09 <molecular> think so
1679 2011-03-26 10:53:12 <joepie91> from or to magicaltux I believe?
1680 2011-03-26 10:53:20 <joepie91> dunno who was the original owner
1681 2011-03-26 10:53:21 <MagicalTux> me
1682 2011-03-26 10:53:22 <joepie91> and who is the new
1683 2011-03-26 10:53:25 <joepie91> ah
1684 2011-03-26 10:53:27 <joepie91> well, there :)
1685 2011-03-26 10:53:30 <MagicalTux> and yes I know, I'm migrating mysql
1686 2011-03-26 10:53:33 <MagicalTux> almost done
1687 2011-03-26 10:54:00 <joepie91> sigh. been a fun few days here
1688 2011-03-26 10:54:08 <joepie91> imagine a 7gbps synflood
1689 2011-03-26 10:54:15 BlueMatt has joined
1690 2011-03-26 10:54:16 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1691 2011-03-26 10:54:16 BlueMatt has joined
1692 2011-03-26 10:54:31 <joepie91> imagine trying to work against it without having to pay some host $900 a month to block it out
1693 2011-03-26 10:54:36 <molecular> MagicalTux, dude, what's with mtgox ;)
1694 2011-03-26 10:54:36 <molecular> allright
1695 2011-03-26 10:54:36 <molecular> sorry for interrupt
1696 2011-03-26 10:54:37 <molecular> here we go, trust restored ;)
1697 2011-03-26 10:54:40 <molecular> wooo. and where are you sitting?
1698 2011-03-26 10:54:54 <joepie91> ... was I lagging?
1699 2011-03-26 10:55:01 <joepie91> I just got a ton of messages at once
1700 2011-03-26 10:55:17 <MagicalTux> copying data at 54MB/s
1701 2011-03-26 10:55:19 <BlueMatt> I think molecular was lagging
1702 2011-03-26 10:55:22 <molecular> nope, seemed to me you were coninuously
1703 2011-03-26 10:55:23 <joepie91> ah.
1704 2011-03-26 10:55:25 <molecular> oh
1705 2011-03-26 10:55:32 <joepie91> ye, all context was lost now
1706 2011-03-26 10:55:33 <joepie91> lol
1707 2011-03-26 10:56:02 <joepie91> but seriously, a massive botnet, with every bot doing 1 syn, is not fun
1708 2011-03-26 10:56:07 <molecular> irc messages are not timestamped on the client, I assume
1709 2011-03-26 10:56:20 <joepie91> molecular: only on the receiving end I believe
1710 2011-03-26 10:56:22 <molecular> why is this happening to you?
1711 2011-03-26 10:56:43 <joepie91> someone was pissed at anonops. I run anonnews. the attacker assumed the two were run by the same people
1712 2011-03-26 10:56:56 <joepie91> I've talked to the guy... and it appears the attack is off now
1713 2011-03-26 10:57:04 <Diablo-D3> hey joepie91
1714 2011-03-26 10:57:06 <joepie91> but it was quite... heavy
1715 2011-03-26 10:57:12 <molecular> that's a cool way to fend off an attack, I must say
1716 2011-03-26 10:57:15 <joepie91> ohai
1717 2011-03-26 10:57:18 <Diablo-D3> the anonops irc network still blocks tor?
1718 2011-03-26 10:57:20 <joepie91> molecular: what way?
1719 2011-03-26 10:57:23 <joepie91> Diablo-D3: yup
1720 2011-03-26 10:57:27 <joepie91> excessive abuse
1721 2011-03-26 10:57:27 <molecular> talk to the attacker
1722 2011-03-26 10:57:35 <joepie91> every time it gets unblocked it gets abused in literally hours
1723 2011-03-26 10:57:47 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1724 2011-03-26 10:57:48 <joepie91> molecular: mye... it's something new
1725 2011-03-26 10:57:48 <molecular> and tell him you're the wrong guy, this must be a mistake ;)
1726 2011-03-26 10:57:49 <Diablo-D3> guhdurf.
1727 2011-03-26 10:57:57 <joepie91> I was actually surprised he stopped, lol
1728 2011-03-26 10:58:06 <joepie91> but ye, I wouldn't be surprised to have them attacking again
1729 2011-03-26 10:58:12 <Diablo-D3> joepie91: oh well, at least bitcoin is the official currency of anonymous
1730 2011-03-26 10:58:12 <joepie91> the entire thing is now on cloudflare
1731 2011-03-26 10:58:13 * Diablo-D3 runs
1732 2011-03-26 10:58:14 TheAncientGoat has joined
1733 2011-03-26 10:58:21 <joepie91> I wonder if cloudflare is a sufficient pincushion
1734 2011-03-26 10:58:26 <joepie91> lol Diablo
1735 2011-03-26 10:58:41 <joepie91> you can not use "official" and "anonymous" in one non-negative sentence
1736 2011-03-26 10:58:42 <joepie91> :P
1737 2011-03-26 10:58:56 <Diablo-D3> it was a joke
1738 2011-03-26 10:59:03 <joepie91> aware :)
1739 2011-03-26 10:59:10 <Diablo-D3> although Im surprised there isnt huge bitcoin takeup with those guys
1740 2011-03-26 10:59:23 <Diablo-D3> the revolution isn't free.
1741 2011-03-26 10:59:26 <joepie91> Diablo: tbh, there isn't much that requires financial transactions
1742 2011-03-26 10:59:48 <Diablo-D3> thats more of a flaw than anything
1743 2011-03-26 10:59:59 <joepie91> also, more funfacts: I used an awknet box as reverse proxy inbetween the internet and my server... it was supposedly "ddos-protected". From payment to suspension in 5 hours. Entire host node + SolusVM panel got COMPLETELY raped by the attack.
1744 2011-03-26 11:00:13 <Diablo-D3> imagine if anonymous donated a few thousand dollars to one of the japanese earthquake funds
1745 2011-03-26 11:00:28 <joepie91> Diablo: where exactly does anonymous come into the equation there?
1746 2011-03-26 11:00:30 <Diablo-D3> joepie91: see, this is why you use rapidxen instead
1747 2011-03-26 11:00:34 <joepie91> also, I dislike donating to fund/charities
1748 2011-03-26 11:00:38 <joepie91> funds*
1749 2011-03-26 11:00:42 <Diablo-D3> anonymous comes in by making a positive name for itself
1750 2011-03-26 11:00:42 <joepie91> there is usually way too much overhead
1751 2011-03-26 11:00:46 <joepie91> mm
1752 2011-03-26 11:00:54 <joepie91> the goal of anonymous was never to have a positive name
1753 2011-03-26 11:00:55 <joepie91> lol
1754 2011-03-26 11:01:04 <Diablo-D3> anonymous has no "goals"
1755 2011-03-26 11:01:09 <joepie91> exactly
1756 2011-03-26 11:01:09 <Diablo-D3> not in that sense anyways
1757 2011-03-26 11:01:23 <joepie91> also, solusvm + openvz is fine... it's just that the attack was so strong / smart that it wasn't filtered
1758 2011-03-26 11:01:25 <Diablo-D3> its just a large massive force of doing _something_
1759 2011-03-26 11:01:30 <joepie91> yup
1760 2011-03-26 11:01:44 <joepie91> but I don't think anonymous is anywhere coming into the equation for donating to charities
1761 2011-03-26 11:01:47 <joepie91> people can do that by themselves
1762 2011-03-26 11:01:56 <joepie91> in this case, every link in the chain is a potential breaking point
1763 2011-03-26 11:01:56 <Diablo-D3> it usually is doing good in some sense or another
1764 2011-03-26 11:02:06 <Diablo-D3> depending if you consider, say, batman a hero or not
1765 2011-03-26 11:02:06 <joepie91> anonymous does not provide any advantage
1766 2011-03-26 11:02:08 <joepie91> as middleman
1767 2011-03-26 11:02:17 <joepie91> even a potential disadvantage
1768 2011-03-26 11:02:49 <molecular> does anonymous somehow accept donations in btc?
1769 2011-03-26 11:03:00 <joepie91> anonnews (aka me) does
1770 2011-03-26 11:03:06 <joepie91> other than that I don't know fo anything accepting btc
1771 2011-03-26 11:03:07 <joepie91> of*
1772 2011-03-26 11:03:13 <joepie91> still have to give the radio guys a poke
1773 2011-03-26 11:03:24 <MagicalTux> (stuff is back online)
1774 2011-03-26 11:03:30 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but according to the internet, if someone in anonymous does something, anonymous did it
1775 2011-03-26 11:03:33 <joepie91> anonops / operationfreedom / anonleaks only accepts ukash / paysafecard
1776 2011-03-26 11:03:37 <joepie91> Diablo: yup
1777 2011-03-26 11:03:47 <Diablo-D3> thus, anonymous uses bitcoin
1778 2011-03-26 11:03:54 <joepie91> it does.
1779 2011-03-26 11:03:54 <Diablo-D3> Im not even sure if this is a good thing >_>
1780 2011-03-26 11:03:55 <joepie91> :P
1781 2011-03-26 11:04:05 <joepie91> mm
1782 2011-03-26 11:04:10 <joepie91> I prefer bitcoin over paypal
1783 2011-03-26 11:04:14 <molecular> we shouldn't judge our users ;)
1784 2011-03-26 11:04:15 <joepie91> if we're talking about donations
1785 2011-03-26 11:04:21 <joepie91> especially for anonymous-related stuff
1786 2011-03-26 11:04:27 <joepie91> it's not the first time a paypal-account has been frozen...
1787 2011-03-26 11:04:36 <Diablo-D3> paypal can go fuck itself
1788 2011-03-26 11:04:39 <molecular> right, dont get why assange doesnt use bitcoin
1789 2011-03-26 11:04:48 <Diablo-D3> actually, what happened to the anonymous thing to fuck paypal for being cunts
1790 2011-03-26 11:04:51 <joepie91> ye, only if they are your only gateway you dont have much of a choice
1791 2011-03-26 11:05:02 <joepie91> also, most anons actually still appear to hate paypal
1792 2011-03-26 11:05:16 * Diablo-D3 ponders
1793 2011-03-26 11:05:21 <joepie91> it's not like someones gonna burn down their offices now
1794 2011-03-26 11:05:23 <Diablo-D3> we need an anon mining pool
1795 2011-03-26 11:05:26 <joepie91> things are mostly processes
1796 2011-03-26 11:05:40 <joepie91> to donate cpu to anon you mean?
1797 2011-03-26 11:05:57 <joepie91> "install this miner to support anonymous"
1798 2011-03-26 11:05:58 <joepie91> or sth
1799 2011-03-26 11:06:10 * Diablo-D3 puts on a guy fawkes mask, and then realize its hard to see the monitor with the mask on
1800 2011-03-26 11:06:14 <joepie91> lol
1801 2011-03-26 11:06:32 <joepie91> anonops tinychat today: 2 guys with guy fawkes mask, 2 guys without
1802 2011-03-26 11:06:39 <Diablo-D3> actually, anonymous is so fucked up
1803 2011-03-26 11:06:39 <joepie91> guess who had to turn off the cam after a while
1804 2011-03-26 11:06:44 <joepie91> because the mask was annoying
1805 2011-03-26 11:06:50 <Diablo-D3> I know quite a few people who do show up for flashmobs and shit
1806 2011-03-26 11:06:54 <Diablo-D3> but none of them know each other
1807 2011-03-26 11:07:03 <Diablo-D3> or have ever met
1808 2011-03-26 11:07:12 <joepie91> is that a bad thing? :P
1809 2011-03-26 11:07:19 <Diablo-D3> Im just saying
1810 2011-03-26 11:08:10 <joepie91> if a flashmob were to happen here
1811 2011-03-26 11:08:12 <joepie91> I'd sure be there
1812 2011-03-26 11:08:24 <joepie91> but most IRL stuff appears to be happening in the US
1813 2011-03-26 11:08:26 <joepie91> and in Germany
1814 2011-03-26 11:08:29 <Diablo-D3> now all we need is jesus x motoko kusanagi rule 34, and feh
1815 2011-03-26 11:08:51 <joepie91> ... I am not particularly a fan of rule 34
1816 2011-03-26 11:08:51 <joepie91> lol
1817 2011-03-26 11:09:05 <Diablo-D3> well, think about it, jesus was the original member of anonymous
1818 2011-03-26 11:09:24 <Diablo-D3> he raged against the machine and was crucified for it
1819 2011-03-26 11:09:26 <joepie91> mm... I wouldnt say member
1820 2011-03-26 11:09:30 <joepie91> in relation to anon
1821 2011-03-26 11:09:39 <joepie91> and we just established that anon has no goals :)
1822 2011-03-26 11:09:57 <joepie91> "raging against the machine" is not a goal either
1823 2011-03-26 11:09:59 <Diablo-D3> anon has ... some sort of goal. somewhere.
1824 2011-03-26 11:10:00 <joepie91> or ideology, for that matter
1825 2011-03-26 11:10:03 <joepie91> nope.
1826 2011-03-26 11:10:08 <joepie91> anon as a whole doesn't.
1827 2011-03-26 11:10:13 <Diablo-D3> it generally floats in the direction of telling assholes to fuck off
1828 2011-03-26 11:10:22 <joepie91> ... or not.
1829 2011-03-26 11:10:23 <joepie91> :P
1830 2011-03-26 11:10:32 <Diablo-D3> its selective on which assholes it fucks.
1831 2011-03-26 11:10:39 <Diablo-D3> or something
1832 2011-03-26 11:10:49 <joepie91> actually.
1833 2011-03-26 11:10:52 * Diablo-D3 gets a job at ars technica or wired at this rate
1834 2011-03-26 11:10:53 <FellowTraveler> Diablo-D3 Jesus raged against the money lenders.
1835 2011-03-26 11:10:54 <joepie91> anon is not just destructive
1836 2011-03-26 11:11:05 <joepie91> things like project tornisia...
1837 2011-03-26 11:11:08 <Diablo-D3> anon is creative too
1838 2011-03-26 11:11:35 <FellowTraveler> try images.google.com and search for jesus money lenders
1839 2011-03-26 11:11:39 <FellowTraveler> see what kind of jesus comes up.
1840 2011-03-26 11:11:50 <joepie91> lol
1841 2011-03-26 11:12:00 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1842 2011-03-26 11:12:04 <joepie91> also, Diablo
1843 2011-03-26 11:12:11 <joepie91> if you want a job at ars, you should talk to DrPizza ;)
1844 2011-03-26 11:12:15 <joepie91> he's pretty much a resident now, lmfao
1845 2011-03-26 11:12:32 <Diablo-D3> heh
1846 2011-03-26 11:12:52 <Diablo-D3> project tornisia is just another tor promotion project?
1847 2011-03-26 11:13:18 <joepie91> apparently was about people setting up tor nodes
1848 2011-03-26 11:13:21 <joepie91> to get tunisia running
1849 2011-03-26 11:13:26 <joepie91> without censorship
1850 2011-03-26 11:13:32 <Diablo-D3> thats one thing anon should be doing all the time
1851 2011-03-26 11:13:37 <joepie91> true
1852 2011-03-26 11:13:42 <joepie91> and it appears it is happening more and more
1853 2011-03-26 11:13:48 * Diablo-D3 has been running a tor node since the start, really
1854 2011-03-26 11:14:41 <joepie91> also
1855 2011-03-26 11:14:43 * joepie91 facepalms
1856 2011-03-26 11:14:45 <joepie91> <Dwaan>mbit is like 10 times smaller then mbyte
1857 2011-03-26 11:14:55 <Diablo-D3> ...
1858 2011-03-26 11:14:59 <joepie91> ye.
1859 2011-03-26 11:15:02 * Diablo-D3 facepalms
1860 2011-03-26 11:15:02 <joepie91> that was my reaction.
1861 2011-03-26 11:15:19 <Diablo-D3> but no, about anonpool, I dunno
1862 2011-03-26 11:15:34 <Diablo-D3> anon deserves to live in an economy that doesnt fuck anon as much as anyone else
1863 2011-03-26 11:15:47 <joepie91> mm
1864 2011-03-26 11:15:47 <Diablo-D3> anon is not a second class citizen
1865 2011-03-26 11:15:53 <joepie91> aware
1866 2011-03-26 11:15:58 <joepie91> I think an anon mining pool
1867 2011-03-26 11:16:05 <joepie91> with a "donate by donating cpu time"
1868 2011-03-26 11:16:07 <joepie91> might actually work
1869 2011-03-26 11:16:13 <joepie91> for people.
1870 2011-03-26 11:16:29 <joepie91> instead of directly ponying up money through paypal
1871 2011-03-26 11:16:30 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
1872 2011-03-26 11:16:40 <joepie91> they could "donate their idle cpu time", so to say
1873 2011-03-26 11:16:46 <Diablo-D3> and idle gpu time
1874 2011-03-26 11:16:52 <Diablo-D3> dont forget, I wrote a gpu miner :D
1875 2011-03-26 11:16:54 <joepie91> which 1. helps the bitcoin network 2. creates a bitcoin income for anon
1876 2011-03-26 11:16:59 <joepie91> oh, lol
1877 2011-03-26 11:17:05 * joepie91 admits he uses m0mchil
1878 2011-03-26 11:17:09 <Diablo-D3> duuudeeee
1879 2011-03-26 11:17:11 <Diablo-D3> use DiabloMiner
1880 2011-03-26 11:17:15 <joepie91> lol
1881 2011-03-26 11:17:22 <joepie91> meh, not running anything now atm anyway
1882 2011-03-26 11:17:57 <joepie91> but yeah
1883 2011-03-26 11:18:04 <joepie91> a "donate cpu time" thing would be nice
1884 2011-03-26 11:18:10 <joepie91> just a package that they can install
1885 2011-03-26 11:18:18 <joepie91> and that kicks in when the pc is idl
1886 2011-03-26 11:18:19 <joepie91> idle*
1887 2011-03-26 11:18:31 <joepie91> and all mining in the same pool.
1888 2011-03-26 11:22:56 Joozero has joined
1889 2011-03-26 11:23:11 <Joozero> hi
1890 2011-03-26 11:23:43 SomeAnonymousPer has joined
1891 2011-03-26 11:25:24 subpar has joined
1892 2011-03-26 11:25:47 subpar has quit (Client Quit)
1893 2011-03-26 11:25:49 <theorbtwo> OTOH, CPU miners are *terribly* inefficent compared to GPU miners.
1894 2011-03-26 11:26:04 <Diablo-D3> theorbtwo: yes but
1895 2011-03-26 11:26:08 <Diablo-D3> its still idle time
1896 2011-03-26 11:26:17 <SomeAnonymousPer> hey can someone explain to me what bitcoin is?
1897 2011-03-26 11:27:27 <finnomenon> the links in the topic do a pretty good job at explaining it
1898 2011-03-26 11:27:47 <joepie91> Diablo-D3: can you make an estimate of the total "power" that about... 1000 average consumer machines can create
1899 2011-03-26 11:27:57 <joepie91> when joined together in a mining pool
1900 2011-03-26 11:27:59 fluffle has joined
1901 2011-03-26 11:28:01 <joepie91> only using cpu/gpu when idle
1902 2011-03-26 11:28:29 <joepie91> I have absolutely no experience with calculating stuff like that, so ye :P
1903 2011-03-26 11:29:04 <Diablo-D3> joepie91: average? eh, lets say 3 mhash/sec
1904 2011-03-26 11:29:13 <Diablo-D3> so 3 * 1000.
1905 2011-03-26 11:29:31 <Diablo-D3> with gpus, though, theres no such average
1906 2011-03-26 11:29:35 <Diablo-D3> people have wildly different stuff
1907 2011-03-26 11:30:47 <joepie91> hm
1908 2011-03-26 11:31:04 <joepie91> how long do you recon it would take for 1000 machines to generate a block?
1909 2011-03-26 11:31:09 <manveru> anybody know whether the dev of cpuminer is around?
1910 2011-03-26 11:31:09 <joepie91> doesn't have to be accurate or anything
1911 2011-03-26 11:31:15 <joepie91> but like, an hour, a day, a week, a month
1912 2011-03-26 11:31:17 <Diablo-D3> manveru: he sometimes is
1913 2011-03-26 11:31:31 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 3000000
1914 2011-03-26 11:31:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 day, 3 hours, 25 minutes, and 54 seconds
1915 2011-03-26 11:31:43 <manveru> omg :)
1916 2011-03-26 11:31:44 <Diablo-D3> joepie91: ^
1917 2011-03-26 11:31:53 <joepie91> oh, derp
1918 2011-03-26 11:31:54 <joepie91> hmm
1919 2011-03-26 11:31:59 <manveru> ;;bc,calc 4000
1920 2011-03-26 11:32:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 2 years, 18 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 21 seconds
1921 2011-03-26 11:32:18 <Joozero> is there magicaltux?
1922 2011-03-26 11:32:46 <manveru> well, i figured i could run cpuminer on some of my servers
1923 2011-03-26 11:32:46 <Diablo-D3> manveru: bc calc takes khash
1924 2011-03-26 11:33:10 <manveru> yeah, my machine does around 4k khash/s
1925 2011-03-26 11:33:30 <theorbtwo> Which is also what the miner reports, or at least what the one I'm using reports.
1926 2011-03-26 11:33:43 <theorbtwo> manveru: 4 Mhash/s.
1927 2011-03-26 11:34:00 <theorbtwo> You wouldn't say "four thousand thousand hashes per second", would you?
1928 2011-03-26 11:34:02 <manveru> heh
1929 2011-03-26 11:34:10 <manveru> sorry, old habit
1930 2011-03-26 11:34:23 <Diablo-D3> man, I could probably do 4khash/sec by hand with a pen and paper
1931 2011-03-26 11:34:55 <theorbtwo> Diablo-D3: I doubt you could do 1 hash/sec.
1932 2011-03-26 11:35:03 <manveru> well, issue is that one of the servers is linux i686, and cpuminer seems to target x86_64
1933 2011-03-26 11:35:09 <Diablo-D3> theorbtwo: it was ajoke
1934 2011-03-26 11:35:18 <Diablo-D3> manveru: it targets sse2.
1935 2011-03-26 11:35:37 <manveru> i removed the -msse2 option
1936 2011-03-26 11:35:55 wolfspraul has joined
1937 2011-03-26 11:37:43 <manveru> hrm, it shouldn't try to compile that at all
1938 2011-03-26 11:38:28 <Diablo-D3> manveru: -msse2 just prevents gcc from autovector
1939 2011-03-26 11:38:32 <Diablo-D3> cpuminer has assembly in it
1940 2011-03-26 11:38:45 <manveru> oh yay
1941 2011-03-26 11:41:08 <MagicalTux> Joozero: ?
1942 2011-03-26 11:41:22 <Joozero> hi
1943 2011-03-26 11:41:33 <Joozero> I want to add the italian language on the wiki
1944 2011-03-26 11:41:38 <Joozero> during my free time
1945 2011-03-26 11:41:55 <Joozero> someone said that I have to ask this to you
1946 2011-03-26 11:42:41 <Joozero> I see also that there are other people that want to add many other languages to the wiki
1947 2011-03-26 11:43:30 <BlueMatt> Joozero: Is this correct?:  Questo prodoto include software sviluppato dal progetto OpenSSL per l'uso del (http://www.openssl.org/) e il software criptografico scritto da Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com) e UPnP software scritto da Thomas Bernard.
1948 2011-03-26 11:44:00 <Joozero> questo "prodotto"
1949 2011-03-26 11:44:21 <sipa> "include software" seems strange in that sentence
1950 2011-03-26 11:44:41 <BlueMatt> ha, well that wasnt me, I just added the upnp part
1951 2011-03-26 11:44:48 <sipa> or is that actually italian?
1952 2011-03-26 11:44:54 Myckel has joined
1953 2011-03-26 11:44:54 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
1954 2011-03-26 11:44:54 Myckel has joined
1955 2011-03-26 11:44:57 <BlueMatt> the rest is already in the client's translation
1956 2011-03-26 11:45:07 <sipa> oh ok, in that case it probably is
1957 2011-03-26 11:45:18 <BlueMatt> Joozero: is that wrong?
1958 2011-03-26 11:45:51 <BlueMatt> oh...wait, my bad I mustve copied/pasted it wrong
1959 2011-03-26 11:45:54 <sipa> according to wiktionary, it's prodotto
1960 2011-03-26 11:46:15 Joozero_ has joined
1961 2011-03-26 11:46:28 <Joozero_> sory but I'm using a wireless connection
1962 2011-03-26 11:46:30 <Joozero_> anyway
1963 2011-03-26 11:46:37 <Joozero_> I say the first mistake
1964 2011-03-26 11:46:43 <Joozero_> : questo "prodotto"
1965 2011-03-26 11:46:53 <Joozero_> "prodoto" is wrong
1966 2011-03-26 11:47:26 <BlueMatt> should be two t's then
1967 2011-03-26 11:47:28 <manveru> Diablo-D3: seems like i got around it by uninstalling yasm, so it cannot build the asm parts
1968 2011-03-26 11:47:53 <BlueMatt> Joozero_: and "include software" is italian?
1969 2011-03-26 11:48:13 <Diablo-D3> manveru: yeah, but sse2 is what makes it so damned fast
1970 2011-03-26 11:48:14 Joozero has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1971 2011-03-26 11:48:25 <Joozero_> yes
1972 2011-03-26 11:48:31 <Joozero_> software is common used
1973 2011-03-26 11:48:52 <BlueMatt> "prodotto include software"? include seems...off
1974 2011-03-26 11:49:28 <Joozero_> wait, I can't read the entire line because I have reloaded the page
1975 2011-03-26 11:49:31 <manveru> Diablo-D3: well, better slow than no speed at all, i say
1976 2011-03-26 11:49:49 <sipa> Joozero_: just, is "include" an italian word? :)
1977 2011-03-26 11:49:57 <BlueMatt>  Questo prodotto include software sviluppato dal progetto OpenSSL per l'uso del (http://www.openssl.org/) e il software criptografico scritto da Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com) e UPnP software scritto da Thomas Bernard.
1978 2011-03-26 11:50:00 <Joozero_> yes
1979 2011-03-26 11:50:04 <Joozero_> io includo
1980 2011-03-26 11:50:04 <sipa> ok
1981 2011-03-26 11:50:07 <Joozero_> tu includi
1982 2011-03-26 11:50:13 <Joozero_> egli include
1983 2011-03-26 11:51:39 <Joozero_> I have done also a translation for the bitcoin client
1984 2011-03-26 11:51:47 <BlueMatt> Joozero_: so that line is correct?
1985 2011-03-26 11:52:08 <Joozero_> yes
1986 2011-03-26 11:53:29 <Joozero_> mi first question was about the italian translation of the wiki
1987 2011-03-26 11:53:36 <Joozero_> is it possible?
1988 2011-03-26 11:56:14 <Joozero_> ...
1989 2011-03-26 11:56:37 ousado_ is now known as ousado
1990 2011-03-26 11:56:40 ousado has quit (Changing host)
1991 2011-03-26 11:56:40 ousado has joined
1992 2011-03-26 11:58:10 <sipa> Joozero_: undoubtedly, but i've no idea who to ask
1993 2011-03-26 11:58:38 <Joozero_> so there is a wiki, and no admin?
1994 2011-03-26 12:02:47 <Joozero_> did magicaltux left?
1995 2011-03-26 12:03:52 <sipa> he may be asleep, away, doing the dishes, struck by lightning, ... :)
1996 2011-03-26 12:04:09 <BlueMatt> Joozero_: wait a couple hours, people eventually come back
1997 2011-03-26 12:04:12 <joepie91> seeing as he is magical....
1998 2011-03-26 12:04:15 <joepie91> the latter wouldn't surprise me
1999 2011-03-26 12:04:16 <joepie91> :)
2000 2011-03-26 12:04:17 <Joozero_> heheh
2001 2011-03-26 12:04:28 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
2002 2011-03-26 12:04:29 <gribble> 68978.89245792
2003 2011-03-26 12:04:31 <joepie91> [/lamejokewhenhalfawake]
2004 2011-03-26 12:04:56 <Joozero_> I have also to clean my house :P
2005 2011-03-26 12:05:03 <Joozero_> I'll check time by time
2006 2011-03-26 12:12:19 subpar has joined
2007 2011-03-26 12:15:26 <manveru> ;;bc,calc 15200
2008 2011-03-26 12:15:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15200 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 32 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 8 minutes, and 46 seconds
2009 2011-03-26 12:16:12 <curiositysquared> Where is the current hash target specified?
2010 2011-03-26 12:16:32 <curiositysquared> I know it's in a hundred places but I can't find any of them and I've spent like 10 minutes looking....
2011 2011-03-26 12:17:01 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
2012 2011-03-26 12:17:05 <BlueMatt> bc,hextarget
2013 2011-03-26 12:17:10 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,hextarget
2014 2011-03-26 12:17:11 <gribble> 000000000000F339000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
2015 2011-03-26 12:17:17 <curiositysquared> thanks!
2016 2011-03-26 12:17:42 <curiositysquared> was there an easier way to find that than know this magic ";;bc.." bit?
2017 2011-03-26 12:18:04 <manveru> you did ask here, didn't you? :)
2018 2011-03-26 12:18:16 <curiositysquared> I try to google before asking :)
2019 2011-03-26 12:18:34 <manveru> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Target
2020 2011-03-26 12:18:48 <manveru> and http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
2021 2011-03-26 12:19:43 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,help
2022 2011-03-26 12:19:43 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
2023 2011-03-26 12:20:56 <manveru> ;;bc,wiki target
2024 2011-03-26 12:20:57 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty | Mar 6, 2011 ... (target is a 256 bit number) ... blocks as a 4 byte integer, and the actual hexadecimal target is derived from it via a predefined formula. ...
2025 2011-03-26 12:20:58 <curiositysquared> if blockexplorer has an site index I'm not finding it...
2026 2011-03-26 12:21:15 <BlueMatt> http://blockexplorer.com/q
2027 2011-03-26 12:21:31 <curiositysquared> (covering face) I did try both the wiki and block explorer but didn't find it there.
2028 2011-03-26 12:21:40 <BlueMatt> I dont think /q is linked anywhere
2029 2011-03-26 12:21:45 <curiositysquared> no kidding...
2030 2011-03-26 12:21:49 <curiositysquared> I was just going to say that.
2031 2011-03-26 12:21:50 <curiositysquared> thanks.
2032 2011-03-26 12:23:03 <curiositysquared> every 296 trillion hashes someone wins!
2033 2011-03-26 12:23:24 <curiositysquared> I have a real question.
2034 2011-03-26 12:23:55 <curiositysquared> Since there's no limit to how many transactions can be included in a block, and it's hardly more difficult to hash 1000 transactions than 10, why are there so many transactions backed up?
2035 2011-03-26 12:24:12 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: there is a limit
2036 2011-03-26 12:24:17 <curiositysquared> Shouldn't the next block generated by someone who's accepting free transactions clear the queue?
2037 2011-03-26 12:24:31 <curiositysquared> oh, what is it? Where/how is that specified?
2038 2011-03-26 12:24:46 <BlueMatt> the default client has a limit on the number of free txes and there is also a limit of 100M on all blocks
2039 2011-03-26 12:25:08 <curiositysquared> 100M?
2040 2011-03-26 12:25:15 <BlueMatt> megabytes
2041 2011-03-26 12:25:28 <BlueMatt> but there is a much smaller limit on the number of free txes (I dont remember what it is atm(
2042 2011-03-26 12:25:29 <curiositysquared> no block can be over 100M?
2043 2011-03-26 12:25:33 <BlueMatt> yes
2044 2011-03-26 12:25:44 <BlueMatt> or is it 10M or 1M or 100K, I dont remember
2045 2011-03-26 12:25:47 <curiositysquared> ok, that still sounds huge compared to where we are.
2046 2011-03-26 12:25:51 <BlueMatt> but there is a limit on max block size
2047 2011-03-26 12:25:57 <curiositysquared> 100k sounds more reasonable. OK.
2048 2011-03-26 12:26:01 <curiositysquared> I'll go dig about this.
2049 2011-03-26 12:26:03 <BlueMatt> I think its 1M
2050 2011-03-26 12:26:21 <BlueMatt> but the real current limit is on the number of free txes
2051 2011-03-26 12:26:42 <curiositysquared> If I modified my client to do more than that, would the other clients accept my block?
2052 2011-03-26 12:26:47 <BlueMatt> yes
2053 2011-03-26 12:26:50 <curiositysquared> (free tx's not the hard limit on max block size?)
2054 2011-03-26 12:26:59 <BlueMatt> no it is not
2055 2011-03-26 12:27:05 <curiositysquared> but they wouldn't accept larger blocks, would they?
2056 2011-03-26 12:27:07 <BlueMatt> the free tx limit is just on the miner side of things
2057 2011-03-26 12:27:17 <BlueMatt> no client will accept a block >1M IIRC
2058 2011-03-26 12:27:24 <BlueMatt> but there is a hard limit on block size
2059 2011-03-26 12:27:41 <curiositysquared> what about the current 1cent limit.
2060 2011-03-26 12:27:50 <BlueMatt> what about it?
2061 2011-03-26 12:28:08 <BlueMatt> the default client only considers you to have a fee if the fee is > 1cent, but some miners have modified that
2062 2011-03-26 12:28:24 <BlueMatt> if you have a tx with output < 1 cent, you have to include a fee
2063 2011-03-26 12:28:26 <curiositysquared> If I modified a client to handle .1 cent transactions, and then had enough miners also modified to produce the block what would happen if I sent someone with the standard client .1 btc?
2064 2011-03-26 12:28:27 <BlueMatt> on the default client
2065 2011-03-26 12:28:49 <BlueMatt> clients will accept < 1 cent tx outputs if they are in a block
2066 2011-03-26 12:29:20 <curiositysquared> ok. Then it's really not so bad if for some reason you wanted to do smaller transactions.
2067 2011-03-26 12:29:26 <curiositysquared> You just might have to mine your own blocks. :)
2068 2011-03-26 12:29:34 <BlueMatt> yep, pretty much
2069 2011-03-26 12:29:44 <BlueMatt> myfreetx patch already allows you to do stuff like that
2070 2011-03-26 12:30:23 <curiositysquared> man I learn all sorts of good stuff here that I don't find in the wiki or forum
2071 2011-03-26 12:30:42 <BlueMatt> I believe this should be on the wiki, but under an odd name IIRC
2072 2011-03-26 12:33:17 dmnd_ has joined
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2074 2011-03-26 12:33:17 dmnd_ has joined
2075 2011-03-26 12:34:48 <curiositysquared> almost everything is but even reading a few hours a day for a few weeks now it's just a lot of information.
2076 2011-03-26 12:35:18 <curiositysquared> and half of it I keep going "I know I've seen that in 10 places..." but still can't find where I saw it. Like the hash target.
2077 2011-03-26 12:35:39 dmnd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2078 2011-03-26 12:35:39 dmnd_ is now known as dmnd
2079 2011-03-26 12:38:23 <Blitzboom> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4973.msg72811#msg72811
2080 2011-03-26 12:38:32 <Blitzboom> can’t we just ban troll accounts?
2081 2011-03-26 12:38:45 <Blitzboom> they are causing a bad reputation
2082 2011-03-26 12:41:01 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/simulation/
2083 2011-03-26 12:41:29 <sipa> constant difficulty, precisely 500GH/s
2084 2011-03-26 12:41:53 <sipa> after simulating block generation
2085 2011-03-26 12:43:33 <sipa> just to give an idea how many variations are inherently caused by the statistical process... or how bad my speed estimation algorithm is :)
2086 2011-03-26 12:44:47 <curiositysquared> hmm.
2087 2011-03-26 12:44:49 <ArtForz> wow, cool
2088 2011-03-26 12:45:25 <ArtForz> didnt expect noise to be *that* big
2089 2011-03-26 12:46:44 <curiositysquared> based on the graphs if the network were at a constant 500GH/s are you saying the difficulty would actually bounce down around 62k and up to around 78k?
2090 2011-03-26 12:47:07 <curiositysquared> or would that get eaten by the 2048 blocks between adjustments?
2091 2011-03-26 12:47:47 <sipa> ArtForz: it could be cause by my extrapolation algorithm
2092 2011-03-26 12:47:51 <sipa> or at least amplified
2093 2011-03-26 12:48:17 <sipa> curiositysquared: that'd be interesting too, actually :)
2094 2011-03-26 12:48:24 <sipa> simulate the difficulty changes too
2095 2011-03-26 12:50:14 nrdb has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2096 2011-03-26 12:52:12 <da2ce7> so it looks like the hashrate is about what we had 1month ago.
2097 2011-03-26 12:52:33 <da2ce7> while the mtgox price is about 6 weeks old.
2098 2011-03-26 12:53:30 <da2ce7> so it looks that the network overspeculated by about a month's growth.  Now we are catching up in real growth, should see more solid growth in the future.
2099 2011-03-26 12:54:03 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,mtgox
2100 2011-03-26 12:54:04 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.905,"low":0.8534,"vol":10227,"buy":0.8535,"sell":0.905,"last":0.905}}
2101 2011-03-26 12:54:45 <ArtForz> $0.05 spread...
2102 2011-03-26 12:55:07 <da2ce7> we should see the infolws of the last slashdotting of bitcoin to soon hit mtgox.. it is any one's guss how much it is.
2103 2011-03-26 12:55:13 <da2ce7> *guess
2104 2011-03-26 12:55:18 overtorque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2105 2011-03-26 12:55:26 <Blitzboom> i have no clue
2106 2011-03-26 12:55:37 overtorque has joined
2107 2011-03-26 12:55:52 <da2ce7> it could be 5gand, or 100 grand... each option is equaly valid.
2108 2011-03-26 12:55:56 <da2ce7> :/
2109 2011-03-26 12:56:17 * da2ce7 thinks that we will know soon enougth
2110 2011-03-26 12:57:44 <da2ce7> we have had about 17K BTC buy in the last 6 days... those funds must have already been sitting in mtgox.
2111 2011-03-26 12:58:00 <Blitzboom> yes, that was speculators mostly imo
2112 2011-03-26 12:58:16 <Blitzboom> the price went right up after slashdot
2113 2011-03-26 12:58:44 <da2ce7> I'm guessing that there is about 60-70K USD sitting in mtgox now.
2114 2011-03-26 12:59:10 <Blitzboom> you think so?
2115 2011-03-26 12:59:30 <Blitzboom> maybe MagicalTux can tell. it isn’t exactly confidential after all
2116 2011-03-26 12:59:49 <da2ce7> hmm, I think that he cooses not to tell those sort of stats.
2117 2011-03-26 13:00:00 <Blitzboom> why? market manipulation?
2118 2011-03-26 13:00:01 grondilu has joined
2119 2011-03-26 13:00:12 grondilu has quit (Client Quit)
2120 2011-03-26 13:00:27 <da2ce7> no, just client confedence.
2121 2011-03-26 13:00:44 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2122 2011-03-26 13:01:15 <da2ce7> well looking there is 9017 of Shown Bids..
2123 2011-03-26 13:01:32 <da2ce7> there will be many times more @ lower prices, and in dark pools
2124 2011-03-26 13:01:50 molecular has joined
2125 2011-03-26 13:02:22 <da2ce7> well time will tell.
2126 2011-03-26 13:03:24 <da2ce7> only need 50K USD to bring the price up2 1.50... but that would take 10 people 5 days @ 1000 USD per day to place into mtgox.
2127 2011-03-26 13:03:33 <da2ce7> the market isn't anywhere near liquid.
2128 2011-03-26 13:04:02 <ArtForz> actually, getting money *into* mtgox is rather easy
2129 2011-03-26 13:04:08 <Blitzboom> no, it’s pretty inefficient
2130 2011-03-26 13:04:36 <ArtForz> getting it back out, different story.
2131 2011-03-26 13:04:36 <Blitzboom> mtgox needs its own paypal
2132 2011-03-26 13:06:04 <Blitzboom> it’s nice that the euro bank transfers are handled automatically and for free now though
2133 2011-03-26 13:06:47 <ArtForz> well, in transfers... sure
2134 2011-03-26 13:06:57 <ArtForz> notice a pattern here?
2135 2011-03-26 13:07:29 <Blitzboom> never needed to transfer fiat money from mtgox yet
2136 2011-03-26 13:07:38 <da2ce7> OTC is the way to go.
2137 2011-03-26 13:07:38 <ArtForz> same for btc
2138 2011-03-26 13:07:43 <Blitzboom> what different are the options?
2139 2011-03-26 13:07:54 <Blitzboom> ArtForz: why? never had any problems with BTC
2140 2011-03-26 13:08:09 <Blitzboom> other than a fraction of 0.01 remaining in my account, lol
2141 2011-03-26 13:08:13 <ArtForz> = transfer 10k LR or whatever to mtgox, buy 12k BTC, smurf em out 1kBTC/day over the next ~ 2 weeks...
2142 2011-03-26 13:08:41 <Blitzboom> 1k limit?
2143 2011-03-26 13:08:43 <ArtForz> yep
2144 2011-03-26 13:08:50 <Blitzboom> o_O
2145 2011-03-26 13:09:11 <da2ce7> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg30zvztgSzm1g10zm2g25
2146 2011-03-26 13:09:18 <Blitzboom> i dislike the monopoly of mtgox on exchanges
2147 2011-03-26 13:09:22 <da2ce7> look at the last 15 days.
2148 2011-03-26 13:09:23 <ArtForz> total daily withdrawal for LR+BTC combined is limited to $1k equivalent
2149 2011-03-26 13:09:26 <da2ce7> :P it is a mirror
2150 2011-03-26 13:09:45 <ArtForz> look, a seagull! ;)
2151 2011-03-26 13:10:01 <Blitzboom> well, it’s not a monopoly exactly. but it’s the only *somehow* liquid exchange
2152 2011-03-26 13:10:22 <ArtForz> somewhat you mean?
2153 2011-03-26 13:10:43 <Blitzboom> in bitcoin terms very
2154 2011-03-26 13:10:51 <Blitzboom> in real world terms … no
2155 2011-03-26 13:12:17 <Avemo> the more difficult exchanges are making it, the more biz for me, on bitcoin buy side at least, lol
2156 2011-03-26 13:13:01 <cosurgi> tcatm: the Volume column in http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ is Volume over last 24h or last 7 days, or what?
2157 2011-03-26 13:13:10 <Blitzboom> 24h
2158 2011-03-26 13:14:08 <tcatm> it's volume since midnight UTC
2159 2011-03-26 13:14:53 <da2ce7> with the market depth, why is it cut at $1.5 and $0.65?
2160 2011-03-26 13:15:08 <Blitzboom> i don’t understand that, either
2161 2011-03-26 13:15:18 <Blitzboom> would like to see everything …
2162 2011-03-26 13:15:27 <cosurgi> tcatm: thx. could you write it somewhere? Maybe a small "since 00:00 UTC" in a tooltip over "Volume"?
2163 2011-03-26 13:15:51 <tcatm> cosurgi: see About tab :)
2164 2011-03-26 13:16:08 <cosurgi> "Todays trade volume in Bitcoins and in the market's currency." ....
2165 2011-03-26 13:16:18 <cosurgi> ok, so add there "since midnight UTC." :)
2166 2011-03-26 13:16:36 <Avemo> I find this rather useful: http://www.taters.net/cgi-bin/btc/matrix.pl?axisinc=0.01
2167 2011-03-26 13:16:38 <tcatm> "Bitcoincharts uses daily intervals (UTC) to display data. For example, the volume of a market will usually be zero at midnight (UTC) and increase during the day."
2168 2011-03-26 13:17:30 <cosurgi> ok.. it's there. But hidden in 'about' tab :) tooltips would be better.
2169 2011-03-26 13:17:31 <{-_-}> ;;bc,mtgox
2170 2011-03-26 13:17:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.905,"low":0.8534,"vol":10245,"buy":0.8538,"sell":0.8799,"last":0.9}}
2171 2011-03-26 13:17:38 <tcatm> re cutoff @0.65/1.5: mtgox doesn't provide more data currently
2172 2011-03-26 13:18:06 <cosurgi> Avemo: this one is cool. but without darkpools it's very misleading.
2173 2011-03-26 13:18:16 <Avemo> sure
2174 2011-03-26 13:18:34 <cosurgi> Avemo: for example last week, on the bottom there were about 5000. One week passed, price went up, and 40000 were sold.
2175 2011-03-26 13:18:35 <da2ce7> :O 1498 unconfirmed transactions
2176 2011-03-26 13:18:51 <cosurgi> why do you must have darkpools?
2177 2011-03-26 13:19:05 <cosurgi> isn't it better to remove them? Everyone will know what's happening with the price.
2178 2011-03-26 13:19:45 <Avemo> do you mean that sales to/by dark pools are not printed in the time&sales tape on the right? i.e. not reported by mtgox
2179 2011-03-26 13:19:46 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2180 2011-03-26 13:20:05 <Blitzboom> no, otherwise they wouldn’t be very dark
2181 2011-03-26 13:20:17 <da2ce7> cosurgi, dark pools are great
2182 2011-03-26 13:20:28 <da2ce7> it allows people to make the market more liquid.
2183 2011-03-26 13:20:36 <doublec> isn't #bitcoin-otc effectively a dark pool? Buys/Sells there don't move the price too.
2184 2011-03-26 13:20:41 <ArtForz> darkpool trades are reported
2185 2011-03-26 13:21:12 <cosurgi> ArtForz: in the chart? http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/ ?
2186 2011-03-26 13:21:17 <Avemo> consensus is taht dark pools are simply shortcuts alowing not to write bots for some ops
2187 2011-03-26 13:21:18 <ArtForz> trades? yes.
2188 2011-03-26 13:21:25 <ArtForz> standing bids/asks? no.
2189 2011-03-26 13:21:34 <{-_-}> what's wrong with bots for trading?
2190 2011-03-26 13:21:43 <Avemo> nothing
2191 2011-03-26 13:21:47 <ArtForz> nothing
2192 2011-03-26 13:22:00 <{-_-}> "shortcuts alowing not to write bots for some ops"
2193 2011-03-26 13:22:00 <Avemo> but with dark pools for some things one does not need bot
2194 2011-03-26 13:22:06 <ArtForz> yep
2195 2011-03-26 13:22:08 <{-_-}> what does that remark mean then?
2196 2011-03-26 13:22:31 <Blitzboom> i don’t see why dark pools are only allowed for trades >1k
2197 2011-03-26 13:22:34 <sipa> things that can now be done using dark pools would otherwise be done by bots
2198 2011-03-26 13:22:40 <ArtForz> I don't quite get that either
2199 2011-03-26 13:22:47 <Blitzboom> what’s the justification?
2200 2011-03-26 13:22:48 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: because otherwise the market would be a lie
2201 2011-03-26 13:22:54 <ArtForz> huh?
2202 2011-03-26 13:22:54 <Blitzboom> huh?
2203 2011-03-26 13:22:57 <Blitzboom> heh
2204 2011-03-26 13:23:00 <BlueMatt> there would be no sell orders and a ton of buys
2205 2011-03-26 13:23:03 <cosurgi> hmm. ok. darkpool allows to place a bid, that nobody sees. Without darkpool you would need to write a bot that is watching 'asks' and starts selling when there's an 'ask' that you like.
2206 2011-03-26 13:23:10 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: so?
2207 2011-03-26 13:23:21 <Avemo> basically, dark pools actumally makes trading fair to large players, because otherwise they either have disadvantage as compared to small players or have to use bots
2208 2011-03-26 13:23:21 <cosurgi> hm. ok.
2209 2011-03-26 13:23:29 <Blitzboom> why would there?
2210 2011-03-26 13:23:34 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: then the market would be artificially high, and uncertainty is not good
2211 2011-03-26 13:23:47 <Blitzboom> i don’t quite get why it would be higher
2212 2011-03-26 13:23:57 <Blitzboom> and why that would be "artificial"
2213 2011-03-26 13:24:07 <Blitzboom> it’s implying the current price is natural or something
2214 2011-03-26 13:24:15 <BlueMatt> the reason we have dark pools is because the market is so small, that big players can buy/sell without moving the market as much
2215 2011-03-26 13:24:23 <Blitzboom> yes
2216 2011-03-26 13:24:37 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: mostly natural, yes...plus there is already enough uncertainty in the market more is never good
2217 2011-03-26 13:24:40 <Avemo> just put a bid of let's say 10k at, let's say 0.8 ans see how small payers pile up bids at 0.8001 , just a illustration
2218 2011-03-26 13:25:08 <Blitzboom> still i don’t get why the possibility of small dark pools boosts the price
2219 2011-03-26 13:25:23 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: because no one would use them on buy orders
2220 2011-03-26 13:25:35 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: hence buy orders would be placed higher than they would normally be
2221 2011-03-26 13:25:35 <ArtForz> actually I do
2222 2011-03-26 13:25:42 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: why?
2223 2011-03-26 13:25:45 <BlueMatt> move the market up
2224 2011-03-26 13:25:55 <BlueMatt> well for large dark pools, yes
2225 2011-03-26 13:26:04 <BlueMatt> for small ones, not many people would
2226 2011-03-26 13:26:19 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: I take that back, dont move the market like that, that would be another jump/correction
2227 2011-03-26 13:26:43 <{-_-}> do dark pools only change the reported exchange price or are they hidden from the orderbook?
2228 2011-03-26 13:26:57 <BlueMatt> hidden form the order book
2229 2011-03-26 13:27:05 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: wait, what
2230 2011-03-26 13:27:14 <{-_-}> #economics told me they think dark pools are bad because they hide info from the marketplace
2231 2011-03-26 13:27:32 <ArtForz> all dark pools do is hide the standing bid/ask
2232 2011-03-26 13:27:32 <Blitzboom> because noone would use the option of smaller dark pools for buying, the price would go up?
2233 2011-03-26 13:27:34 <BlueMatt> {-_-}: normally, yes, but with BTC dark pools allow big players to play
2234 2011-03-26 13:27:36 <Blitzboom> i don’t quite understand
2235 2011-03-26 13:27:50 <Blitzboom> the big orders would remain
2236 2011-03-26 13:28:00 <BlueMatt> without btc dark pools big players would move the market so much that it would not be good overall
2237 2011-03-26 13:28:11 <Blitzboom> i don’t want to abolish them
2238 2011-03-26 13:28:18 <Blitzboom> i want to extend them for trades <1k
2239 2011-03-26 13:28:23 <ArtForz> place a open 5k bid at 0.85, watch what happens
2240 2011-03-26 13:28:36 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: Im saying just small dark pools. People want the price to go up, so they will not use dark pools for asks
2241 2011-03-26 13:28:57 <BlueMatt> but will use them for sells
2242 2011-03-26 13:29:02 <Avemo> no
2243 2011-03-26 13:29:04 <BlueMatt> I mean not use them for buys
2244 2011-03-26 13:29:18 <Blitzboom> so you think that there would be less visible supply
2245 2011-03-26 13:29:19 <BlueMatt> then you have no public asks but a ton of public buys
2246 2011-03-26 13:29:32 <Blitzboom> and what’s the problem with that?
2247 2011-03-26 13:29:41 <BlueMatt> and thus the market would go up (not straight up, but slightly more than normal)
2248 2011-03-26 13:29:45 <Blitzboom> it’d encourage people to buy
2249 2011-03-26 13:29:47 <Avemo> buyers do not want the price to go up, not untill they finished, the same for sellers but in other direction
2250 2011-03-26 13:29:50 <BlueMatt> because that creates a fake market for btc
2251 2011-03-26 13:30:11 <BlueMatt> Avemo: in all, the people in the btc community have enough btc that they want the price to go up
2252 2011-03-26 13:30:28 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: and a fake market looks bad to people who want to join and creates much more uncertainty in the market
2253 2011-03-26 13:30:41 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: we already have enough uncertainty, we really dont need more
2254 2011-03-26 13:31:07 <Avemo> sure, but for traders it's a bit different story and mtgox trader is not equal to "the people in btc community"
2255 2011-03-26 13:31:17 <BlueMatt> Avemo: currently they are
2256 2011-03-26 13:31:27 <Avemo> disagree
2257 2011-03-26 13:31:47 <BlueMatt> the vast majority of large/medium traders on mtgox are btc community members
2258 2011-03-26 13:31:58 <BlueMatt> even if not people who hang out on irc/forums
2259 2011-03-26 13:32:12 <BlueMatt> people who like the idea of the project and thus want to see it succeed
2260 2011-03-26 13:32:27 <BlueMatt> no banks/real investors are on mtgox
2261 2011-03-26 13:33:08 <Avemo> even given all you just said my previous statement is logically true
2262 2011-03-26 13:33:20 <BlueMatt> how?
2263 2011-03-26 13:34:22 <Blitzboom> anyway. i hope the dominance of mtgox ends
2264 2011-03-26 13:34:33 <BlueMatt> whats wrong with mtg?
2265 2011-03-26 13:34:33 <{-_-}> i released my code for that reason
2266 2011-03-26 13:34:33 <Blitzboom> although i don’t really see competitors yet
2267 2011-03-26 13:34:39 <{-_-}> i hope to see many exchanges
2268 2011-03-26 13:34:41 <Avemo> simply because 'mtgox traders' is a subset  (I would add that it is rather small subset) of 'btc community' and threfore cannot be equal to it.
2269 2011-03-26 13:34:44 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: nothing, but dominance is wrong
2270 2011-03-26 13:34:55 <BlueMatt> ok then yea I agree
2271 2011-03-26 13:34:59 <Avemo> cannot be equial
2272 2011-03-26 13:35:02 <{-_-}> BlueMatt: have you seen http://britcoin.co.uk/findex.php?page= ?
2273 2011-03-26 13:35:18 <Blitzboom> that’s down for me
2274 2011-03-26 13:35:23 <BlueMatt> {-_-}: connection refused :)
2275 2011-03-26 13:35:29 <{-_-}> ok ill put it up a sec
2276 2011-03-26 13:35:35 <{-_-}> i thought maybe you've seen it before
2277 2011-03-26 13:37:00 <{-_-}> BlueMatt: see now
2278 2011-03-26 13:37:11 <BlueMatt> oh yea I saw that
2279 2011-03-26 13:37:12 <{-_-}> source code is open
2280 2011-03-26 13:37:44 <{-_-}> ive been trying to find others interested in opening exchanges, but nobody wants to.
2281 2011-03-26 13:38:08 <{-_-}> after all, 'others' can do it :p
2282 2011-03-26 13:38:11 <BlueMatt> {-_-}: I think what someone needs to do is open a broker that buys/sells on mtg, bcm, etc and maybe even on #bitcoin-otc in some rare cases
2283 2011-03-26 13:38:22 <BlueMatt> that way people can easily use all the exchanges at once
2284 2011-03-26 13:38:38 <BlueMatt> we already have what 3?
2285 2011-03-26 13:38:44 <Blitzboom> much more
2286 2011-03-26 13:38:47 <{-_-}> what's a broker?
2287 2011-03-26 13:39:04 <tcatm> cosurgi: tooltips added
2288 2011-03-26 13:39:11 <BlueMatt> {-_-}: you click buy/sell on my site and I go buy/sell on your behalf on the site with the best price
2289 2011-03-26 13:39:23 <BlueMatt> automatically
2290 2011-03-26 13:40:34 <{-_-}> what's the point in that?
2291 2011-03-26 13:40:39 <{-_-}> doesn't seem very useful.
2292 2011-03-26 13:40:45 <BlueMatt> it can make all the markets accessible
2293 2011-03-26 13:40:55 <BlueMatt> its how current markets work for commodities/currencies
2294 2011-03-26 13:40:58 <{-_-}> if you have mtgox$, you can only trade on mtgox
2295 2011-03-26 13:41:14 <BlueMatt> well then I see no real reason why we need more markets
2296 2011-03-26 13:42:01 <{-_-}> to buy euros, £, rupees, yuan
2297 2011-03-26 13:42:18 <BlueMatt> well euros coming to mtg soon
2298 2011-03-26 13:43:17 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: already done
2299 2011-03-26 13:43:20 <BlueMatt> probably others eventually
2300 2011-03-26 13:43:32 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: you can transfer euors, can you buy/sell in them yet?
2301 2011-03-26 13:43:48 <sipa> no(t yet)
2302 2011-03-26 13:43:58 <Blitzboom> aren’t they just converted into USD?
2303 2011-03-26 13:44:03 <sipa> yes, for now
2304 2011-03-26 13:44:21 <Blitzboom> well, than that’s the same (with a bit of a cost)
2305 2011-03-26 13:44:23 <sipa> so currently mtgox is only a usd/btc exchanger, no eur/btc exchanger yet
2306 2011-03-26 13:44:25 <Blitzboom> then*
2307 2011-03-26 13:44:36 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: no, currently MagicalTux is paying the conversion costs
2308 2011-03-26 13:44:52 <Blitzboom> he pays them out of the fee revenues? nice
2309 2011-03-26 13:45:01 <BlueMatt> +no euro bank transfer fees making euros the cheapest way to get $ into mtg
2310 2011-03-26 13:45:15 <BlueMatt> but hes changing that and making a dedicated euro market soon IIRC
2311 2011-03-26 13:45:20 <sipa> there is a cost for tranferring back to a euro account though
2312 2011-03-26 13:45:30 <BlueMatt> sipa: unless you live in europe :)
2313 2011-03-26 13:45:35 <sipa> ?
2314 2011-03-26 13:45:37 <sipa> i do
2315 2011-03-26 13:45:39 <Blitzboom> really? seperate mtgox for euro?
2316 2011-03-26 13:45:59 <Blitzboom> that’d be interesting
2317 2011-03-26 13:46:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: is there, I thought there wasnt
2318 2011-03-26 13:46:13 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: yea, like the other markets do it
2319 2011-03-26 13:46:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: 2% conversion cost, yes
2320 2011-03-26 13:46:21 <noagendamarket> he should have sites for different continents named after their biggestmountains
2321 2011-03-26 13:46:22 <BlueMatt> mmm
2322 2011-03-26 13:46:29 <noagendamarket> mount everest exchange
2323 2011-03-26 13:46:32 <noagendamarket> lol
2324 2011-03-26 13:46:39 <sipa> only for mtgusd->eur, not for eur->mtgusd
2325 2011-03-26 13:46:45 <noagendamarket> mt kosciusko
2326 2011-03-26 13:46:47 <Blitzboom> i thought mtgox stands for magic the gathering exchange :D
2327 2011-03-26 13:46:51 <BlueMatt> oh, well I guess that is chaning soon
2328 2011-03-26 13:46:52 <noagendamarket> yea
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2331 2011-03-26 13:47:10 <noagendamarket> mt sthelens exchange
2332 2011-03-26 13:47:12 <noagendamarket> lol
2333 2011-03-26 13:47:17 <noagendamarket> mt fuji
2334 2011-03-26 13:48:02 <cosurgi> tcatm: wow, they'are cool
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2337 2011-03-26 13:59:25 <tcatm> I made bitcoincharts semi-realtime. worst case latency is 20 seconds until a trade appears (without refresh)
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2347 2011-03-26 14:23:36 <luke-jr> martok604: myFreeTx branch has that
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2354 2011-03-26 14:45:57 <forrestv> how does the process of nodes agreeing on a new difficulty work? wiki doesn't describe it
2355 2011-03-26 14:46:28 <luke-jr> forrestv: anyone who makes a block with the wrong difficulty gets ignored
2356 2011-03-26 14:50:19 <forrestv> the difficulty calculation is based on time, so i don't see how any single difficulty calculation would have a majority ...
2357 2011-03-26 14:52:25 <luke-jr> …
2358 2011-03-26 14:52:56 <luke-jr> the times are fixed inside the blocks
2359 2011-03-26 14:53:14 SomeAnonymousPer has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2360 2011-03-26 14:53:35 <luke-jr> desired-duration / (last-block-timestamp - first-block-timestamp) = % change required
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2367 2011-03-26 15:12:02 <baltimore> need 1000 western union, can anyone do it?
2368 2011-03-26 15:15:12 <xelister> baltimore: try #bitcoin-otr
2369 2011-03-26 15:15:21 <xelister> erm
2370 2011-03-26 15:15:23 <xelister> baltimore: try ##bitcoin-otr
2371 2011-03-26 15:15:33 <xelister> wait.. where is this channel
2372 2011-03-26 15:15:45 <baltimore> otc?
2373 2011-03-26 15:15:47 <xelister> #bitcoin-otc  ...
2374 2011-03-26 15:15:51 <xelister> over the counter
2375 2011-03-26 15:16:00 <xelister> its a chan for traders
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2381 2011-03-26 15:35:16 <BurtyB> slush are there any problems with your pool? one of my machines hasnt been able to connect for the last hour
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2386 2011-03-26 15:49:39 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|pokes nanotube 
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2395 2011-03-26 16:24:16 <JackRabiit> Dayum Tycho's always here... Hey tycho how fast does you auto payout actually payout? my balance is triple the auto payout value
2396 2011-03-26 16:24:58 <JackRabiit> and yet i've recieved two payments within 2hrs
2397 2011-03-26 16:25:13 <JackRabiit> however i havent recieved a payment in 8hrs
2398 2011-03-26 16:32:21 <JackRabiit> !test
2399 2011-03-26 16:32:22 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2400 2011-03-26 16:33:12 sneak has joined
2401 2011-03-26 16:33:24 <JackRabiit> Oh and who knows where the wallet.dat file is
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2406 2011-03-26 16:35:44 <JackRabiit> [Tycho] ?
2407 2011-03-26 16:36:00 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,wiki secure wallet
2408 2011-03-26 16:36:00 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet | However a few years have passed and the wallet is now more easily compromised. Just re-encrypting isn't secure. One needs to make a new wallet and make the ...
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2410 2011-03-26 16:37:52 <JackRabiit> ty
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2414 2011-03-26 16:46:15 <BlueMatt> anyone have any idea why pudinpopp's miner wont compile with undefined references to cu*?
2415 2011-03-26 16:54:02 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you need a CUDA lib?
2416 2011-03-26 16:54:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: works fine making the sdk samples and cudart etc are linked
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2438 2011-03-26 17:19:50 <forrestv> JackRabiit, deepbit pays out daily, at around 10pm EDT for me q:
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2443 2011-03-26 17:36:26 <slush> BurtyB: 1850 clients connected, don't look like problem of the pool
2444 2011-03-26 17:37:31 dotblank has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2447 2011-03-26 17:41:07 <BurtyB> slush, strange they still wont connect (RPC error) but was connected and just seemed to stop
2448 2011-03-26 17:41:34 <slush> BurtyB: which miner?
2449 2011-03-26 17:41:43 <BurtyB> slush poclbm
2450 2011-03-26 17:43:14 <slush> firewall?
2451 2011-03-26 17:43:40 <slush> all my miners are connected, I see hundreds of others connected as well, don't see the reason why your one should be rejected
2452 2011-03-26 17:44:33 <lfm> BurtyB: can you ping the server
2453 2011-03-26 17:46:22 philth has joined
2454 2011-03-26 17:47:13 <[Tycho]> Hello.
2455 2011-03-26 17:47:40 <BurtyB> yeah I can ping it but no port 8332 (and I have no fw on that box)
2456 2011-03-26 17:47:55 <slush> BurtyB: port 80 is working?
2457 2011-03-26 17:48:35 <martok604> 8332 works for me via telnet.
2458 2011-03-26 17:48:37 <BurtyB> switched it to my ISP rather than virginmedia and it's working now.. wonder what has happened on virgin to break it :/
2459 2011-03-26 17:49:03 <martok604> Are they blocking nonstandard ports?
2460 2011-03-26 17:49:15 <slush> maybe they started to block bitcoin :)
2461 2011-03-26 17:50:16 <baltimore> why are transactions taking so long
2462 2011-03-26 17:50:27 <BurtyB> well they didn't but who knows what they're upto :/
2463 2011-03-26 17:51:06 <JFK911> whos shutting their miners down for earth hour tonite
2464 2011-03-26 17:51:12 <BurtyB> lol
2465 2011-03-26 17:51:26 * BurtyB decided not to take part this year JFK911 
2466 2011-03-26 17:51:34 <luke-jr> JFK911: I'm turning as much on as I can to make up for everyone who turns stuff off
2467 2011-03-26 17:51:37 <JFK911> same
2468 2011-03-26 17:51:41 <BurtyB> :)
2469 2011-03-26 17:51:52 <BurtyB> well you've got to help the elec companies cope with the drop in demand
2470 2011-03-26 17:51:54 <JFK911> i have lots of incandescent lamps ready to burn
2471 2011-03-26 17:52:17 <BurtyB> slush ta for the help re my crap ISP :)
2472 2011-03-26 17:52:42 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2473 2011-03-26 17:53:07 * jgarzik demands that his luck improve.  My code needs another block, for testing.
2474 2011-03-26 17:53:25 <JFK911> yah
2475 2011-03-26 17:53:31 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 400000
2476 2011-03-26 17:53:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 week, 1 day, 13 hours, 44 minutes, and 15 seconds
2477 2011-03-26 17:53:35 <martok604> So if I want to get a $100 transaction through in a sensibile period, what xtxfee need I pay.?
2478 2011-03-26 17:53:39 <lfm> jgarzik: on testnet?
2479 2011-03-26 17:53:42 <JFK911> i got 2 blocks on sunday and 0 the rest of the week
2480 2011-03-26 17:53:51 <JFK911> i should have shut the miner down
2481 2011-03-26 17:54:12 <baltimore> sunday is tomorrow so better leave it on
2482 2011-03-26 17:54:22 <lfm> martok604: 0.01 is generally plenty
2483 2011-03-26 17:54:34 <martok604> lmfm: Thanks.
2484 2011-03-26 17:54:40 <martok604> er I can't type.
2485 2011-03-26 17:54:50 <BlueMatt> puddinpop: any reason why your miner wont link with undefined references to cu*
2486 2011-03-26 17:55:08 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2487 2011-03-26 17:55:19 <lfm> you missed a -l??
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2492 2011-03-26 17:55:47 <BlueMatt> no has all the -l s which the nvidia sample sdk things have and it still fails
2493 2011-03-26 17:56:07 <lfm> -l in the wrong order?
2494 2011-03-26 17:56:35 <BlueMatt> maybe, but using his cmake file to build it...Ill go check
2495 2011-03-26 17:59:28 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2496 2011-03-26 17:59:43 <jgarzik> "trisquel"   What silly person thought that would be a good name for an OS?
2497 2011-03-26 18:00:21 <jrabbit> lol
2498 2011-03-26 18:02:07 <jrabbit> http://i.imgur.com/XbmLn.jpg
2499 2011-03-26 18:03:00 <glassresistor> da2ce7: tcatm: afternoon
2500 2011-03-26 18:03:12 devon_hillard has joined
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2508 2011-03-26 18:06:44 <cosurgi> who made http://www.weusecoins.com/ ??
2509 2011-03-26 18:06:51 <cosurgi> s/??/?
2510 2011-03-26 18:06:56 <slush> cosurgi: justmoon
2511 2011-03-26 18:07:05 <cosurgi> thx :)
2512 2011-03-26 18:07:11 <baltimore> how many confirmations does mtgox require
2513 2011-03-26 18:07:28 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2514 2011-03-26 18:07:44 <cosurgi> justmoon: on getting-started.php s/consider accepting Bi/start accepting Bi/g
2515 2011-03-26 18:08:16 overtorque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2517 2011-03-26 18:08:28 <dissipate> did justmoon collect the bitcoin video bounty?
2518 2011-03-26 18:09:35 Xunie has joined
2519 2011-03-26 18:09:57 <cosurgi> there is still one very uneasy secret for newcomers: it is very simple to steal a wallet, because wallet is still unencrypted. People wwill start hating bitcoins when they will staart losing cash. We are trying to reachh for moew people, and eventually we will reach far enough and toouch stupid ones. We need to protect them too (up to possible limits, since protecting from stupidity is very tiring), or they won't use BTC.
2520 2011-03-26 18:10:05 <T_X> I'm getting the following error when compiling bitcoin on a recent debian unstable: http://pastebin.com/n2dXiQ58
2521 2011-03-26 18:10:11 <T_X> am I missing a certain library?
2522 2011-03-26 18:10:22 <cosurgi> s/moew people/more people/
2523 2011-03-26 18:10:30 overtorque has joined
2524 2011-03-26 18:10:42 <cosurgi> sorry for double pressed chars. Load average: 12.66 12.82 12.53
2525 2011-03-26 18:11:01 <slush> cosurgi: you're right, unfortunately there is no C++ hacker available to implement wallet encryption
2526 2011-03-26 18:11:03 <ArtForz> T_X: building gui client?
2527 2011-03-26 18:11:09 <dissipate> cosurgi, you can't protect against stupidity 100%. for instance, if you encrypt the wallet and protect it with a passphrase, what if the user loses their passphrase?
2528 2011-03-26 18:11:12 <T_X> ArtForz: yep
2529 2011-03-26 18:11:30 <dissipate> slush, really?? wow.
2530 2011-03-26 18:11:31 <ArtForz> add a -l gdk-x11-2.0 to dynnamic setion of WXLIBS in makefile.unix
2531 2011-03-26 18:11:40 <cosurgi> slush: err ;)
2532 2011-03-26 18:12:05 <cosurgi> anyone triedd BitcoinJ ?
2533 2011-03-26 18:12:07 <martok604> And the wallet niwill always be decrypted in memory.
2534 2011-03-26 18:12:29 <slush> dissipate: so you have probably doors to your house open overnight, right? :)
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2536 2011-03-26 18:12:41 <slush> dissipate: because 'what if' you lose your keys
2537 2011-03-26 18:13:13 <cosurgi> he can change the lock in the door. Will cost a bit of money and time, but doable.... hmm
2538 2011-03-26 18:13:17 <slush> ok, I had discussion about this many times and still think that at least _some_ wallet protection is needed
2539 2011-03-26 18:13:41 <dissipate> slush, my door is actually pretty weak protection against forced entry. in any event, if i lose my key all i have to do is call my landlord to get a copy of his key, or have a locksmith come out.
2540 2011-03-26 18:13:51 <slush> cosurgi: on the other hand open the door lock is pretty easy. Why to use them when thief can open it in 30 seconds?
2541 2011-03-26 18:14:01 <LtBrenton> slush: C++ hackers you say?
2542 2011-03-26 18:14:10 <LtBrenton> balls to it *pulls source*
2543 2011-03-26 18:14:13 <cosurgi> changing a "lock" to enccryped wallet means a loophole in security. heh.
2544 2011-03-26 18:14:27 int0x27h has joined
2545 2011-03-26 18:15:53 <dissipate> cosurgi, one solution is to have multiple passphrases to decrypt the wallet. forget 1 and you still have a couple more.
2546 2011-03-26 18:15:54 Zarutian has joined
2547 2011-03-26 18:16:19 <dissipate> the loss of security is minimal assuming the passphrases are strong
2548 2011-03-26 18:16:59 sgornick has joined
2549 2011-03-26 18:17:56 <cosurgi> dissipate: yeah, we could use that. An "emergency" passphare could be some long sentence, that the person finds it easy to remember. But then, we need an option to re-enecrypt whole wallet, after recovery with emergency passphrase. He doesn't remember his password, so he must setup a new one.
2550 2011-03-26 18:18:56 <dissipate> cosurgi, yep, a scheme like that or a similar one would probably work.
2551 2011-03-26 18:19:12 <dissipate> something must be done though. an unencrypted wallet is just ridiculous.
2552 2011-03-26 18:20:00 <slush> the idea of more passwords sounds cool
2553 2011-03-26 18:20:30 <cosurgi> pgp & cryptloop already support that, so we have all necessssary librarries.
2554 2011-03-26 18:21:31 <cosurgi> just not sure which layer in pgp/gpg. I've seen that in config options, but never used.
2555 2011-03-26 18:22:55 <T_X> ArtForz: thanks, now it works. by the way, I had to add even more libraries in a similar fashion: gdk-x11-2.0  pangocairo-1.0 X11 cairo gdk_pixbuf-2.0 png12 pango-1.0 gobject-2.0 glib-2.0 pthread Xinerama  Xxf86vm
2556 2011-03-26 18:23:37 <ArtForz> yeah, same here for about 2 weeks
2557 2011-03-26 18:23:44 <T_X> I'm not so much into all this library stuff, but I guess it would cause some sort of trouble for some people, if they were always added to the makefile.unix, right?
2558 2011-03-26 18:24:00 <ArtForz> before that I only needed to add libgdk-x11
2559 2011-03-26 18:24:15 <T_X> I once only needed to add Xxf86vm
2560 2011-03-26 18:24:23 <T_X> but that was some months ago
2561 2011-03-26 18:24:40 <ArtForz> wild guess, updated gdk?
2562 2011-03-26 18:25:03 <T_X> probably. aptitude full-upgrade :)
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2566 2011-03-26 18:30:53 <martok604> Why if paytxfee=0 is in bitcoin.conf doesa 1 btc transaction still incur a 0.01 fee? Isn't that set by the sender?
2567 2011-03-26 18:31:17 <BurtyB> martok604 maybe it's too big?
2568 2011-03-26 18:31:24 ousado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2569 2011-03-26 18:31:24 <ArtForz> that usually means the transaction is too big
2570 2011-03-26 18:31:43 <martok604> a 1 btc transaction?
2571 2011-03-26 18:31:45 <ArtForz> wild-ass guess, got lots of really small inputs?
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2577 2011-03-26 18:33:11 <martok604> Can I see what a fee will be before sending?
2578 2011-03-26 18:33:32 <ArtForz> using the gui client, yes
2579 2011-03-26 18:33:57 <martok604> artforz: bleh
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2616 2011-03-26 19:41:37 <curiositysquared> Why is 812 days / (115177/2016) = 14.4 days?
2617 2011-03-26 19:41:47 <curiositysquared> with 0 growth that number should be 14 exactly.
2618 2011-03-26 19:42:06 <curiositysquared> because the network has been growing at an average of 2% daily almost the entire time it should be around 13.
2619 2011-03-26 19:42:12 <curiositysquared> any insight?
2620 2011-03-26 19:44:09 * curiositysquared has to afk. but if anyone sees that and knows the answer please pm me.
2621 2011-03-26 19:45:05 <curiositysquared> (that equation is days since the genisis block / (blocks so far / blocks between updates) )
2622 2011-03-26 19:45:17 st-7869 has joined
2623 2011-03-26 19:46:41 <ArtForz> yes
2624 2011-03-26 19:47:32 <ArtForz> before ~dec 2009 avg difficulty was limited by the 1.0 lower bound and time/block was well > 600s
2625 2011-03-26 19:47:44 st-7869 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2626 2011-03-26 19:49:36 <curiositysquared> (1301020785-1231006505) seconds / (114912/2016)
2627 2011-03-26 19:49:41 <curiositysquared> is the exact equation.
2628 2011-03-26 19:49:43 <curiositysquared> oh ok. thanks.
2629 2011-03-26 19:51:50 <curiositysquared> (1301020785-1269480278) seconds / ((114912-46944)/2016) = 10.8 days
2630 2011-03-26 19:51:52 <curiositysquared> that looks better.
2631 2011-03-26 19:52:57 <ArtForz> e.g. block 20303 - 22319 took well over a month
2632 2011-03-26 19:53:27 genjix has joined
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2634 2011-03-26 19:53:28 genjix has joined
2635 2011-03-26 19:53:43 <ArtForz> 2009-07-28 08:11 to 2009-09-06 11:38
2636 2011-03-26 19:55:39 st-7943 has joined
2637 2011-03-26 19:55:49 <ArtForz> > 39d instead of 14d ... that makes up for a quite a few "slightly faster than nominal becuse network keeps growing" periods ;)
2638 2011-03-26 19:56:22 <curiositysquared> how many people were actually mining back then?
2639 2011-03-26 19:56:36 <ArtForz> 5 or so I guess
2640 2011-03-26 19:56:45 <curiositysquared> is the number of accounts mining possibly larger than the number of people connected to the network?
2641 2011-03-26 19:56:58 <ArtForz> yes
2642 2011-03-26 19:57:00 <genjix> oh man if i know about bitcoin in 2009...
2643 2011-03-26 19:57:07 <genjix> and mined continuously for 2 years :p
2644 2011-03-26 19:58:29 <curiositysquared> if there are currently around 1.5k nodes on the p2p network.
2645 2011-03-26 19:58:38 <genjix> 10k nodes
2646 2011-03-26 19:58:44 <curiositysquared> where you get that from?
2647 2011-03-26 19:58:53 <genjix> mtux's data from the irc
2648 2011-03-26 19:58:54 st-7943 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2649 2011-03-26 19:58:59 <genjix> on lfnet
2650 2011-03-26 19:59:10 <curiositysquared> Difficulty: 69.0K, Forum posts/day: 732, Nodes: 1.5K, #bitcoin
2651 2011-03-26 19:59:14 <curiositysquared> from bitcoinnews
2652 2011-03-26 19:59:14 <genjix> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml
2653 2011-03-26 19:59:14 gruez has joined
2654 2011-03-26 19:59:25 <curiositysquared> thanks. that's what I was trying to find.
2655 2011-03-26 19:59:27 <curiositysquared> what's lfnet?
2656 2011-03-26 19:59:46 <ArtForz> irc server nodes use for bootstrapping
2657 2011-03-26 19:59:47 <genjix> smutfairy
2658 2011-03-26 19:59:53 <ArtForz> yep
2659 2011-03-26 20:00:11 <curiositysquared> ok. the google map has been updated since I saw it from the forum
2660 2011-03-26 20:00:19 <curiositysquared> but I don't see a way to get the node count from it.
2661 2011-03-26 20:00:22 <curiositysquared> smutfairy?
2662 2011-03-26 20:00:29 <curiositysquared> (are you making fun of me?)
2663 2011-03-26 20:00:38 <genjix> im going to do a count from it
2664 2011-03-26 20:00:56 <curiositysquared> cause if smutfairy is a meem or inside joke... it's got some ring. :)
2665 2011-03-26 20:00:58 <genjix> ~5000
2666 2011-03-26 20:01:06 <ArtForz> 4380
2667 2011-03-26 20:01:09 <genjix> 4000
2668 2011-03-26 20:01:10 <genjix> yeah
2669 2011-03-26 20:01:27 <curiositysquared> so .... that's tat's the number of nodes in the bootstrap irc channel?
2670 2011-03-26 20:01:32 <curiositysquared> (and what's smutfairy?)
2671 2011-03-26 20:01:33 <ArtForz> iirc it's the reverse dns of irc.lfnet.org or so
2672 2011-03-26 20:01:36 <genjix> right
2673 2011-03-26 20:01:48 <genjix> smutfairy used to be the old dns for lfnet
2674 2011-03-26 20:01:54 <curiositysquared> oh ok.
2675 2011-03-26 20:02:03 <genjix> i prefer the old name :]
2676 2011-03-26 20:02:07 st-8196 has joined
2677 2011-03-26 20:02:11 <genjix> but some people complained
2678 2011-03-26 20:02:12 <curiositysquared> I wish I understood the distributed aspects of the IRC protocol better.
2679 2011-03-26 20:02:25 <genjix> irc in general or bitcoin irc?
2680 2011-03-26 20:02:30 <genjix> it's nothing magical.
2681 2011-03-26 20:02:33 <phantomcircuit> genjix, looks like we need a chinese language site
2682 2011-03-26 20:02:43 <curiositysquared> I mean irc. Yeah, I mean more the actual technical dirty details....
2683 2011-03-26 20:02:50 <genjix> phantomcircuit: for what?
2684 2011-03-26 20:03:01 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2685 2011-03-26 20:03:03 <phantomcircuit> genjix, there's like 4 nodes in all of china
2686 2011-03-26 20:03:10 <curiositysquared> like I can open up netcat and write HTTP and a few other protocols off the top of my head but my IRC foo gets lost on full blown IRC like freenode.
2687 2011-03-26 20:03:19 <genjix> oh yeah, well there's a chinese wiki :p
2688 2011-03-26 20:03:23 <curiositysquared> is lfnet part of freenode?
2689 2011-03-26 20:03:29 <ArtForz> nope
2690 2011-03-26 20:03:36 <curiositysquared> really?
2691 2011-03-26 20:03:41 <genjix> irc is super easy
2692 2011-03-26 20:03:48 <genjix> CHAT <lsds@kds> blaaa
2693 2011-03-26 20:03:50 <genjix> iirc
2694 2011-03-26 20:03:51 <curiositysquared> I could have swore bitcoind was boot strapping from freenode
2695 2011-03-26 20:03:54 <curiositysquared> yeah.
2696 2011-03-26 20:04:04 <curiositysquared> so on a network like freenode that has lots of servers and lots of channels
2697 2011-03-26 20:04:05 <phantomcircuit> genjix, uh no
2698 2011-03-26 20:04:11 <curiositysquared> and you can connect to any of the servers
2699 2011-03-26 20:04:17 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, irc.lfnet.net or is it .org?
2700 2011-03-26 20:04:18 <curiositysquared> how do the servers route the chatting?
2701 2011-03-26 20:04:36 <genjix> phantomcircuit: i cant remember the exact commands, but it's along those lines
2702 2011-03-26 20:04:54 <genjix> i've coded lots of irc enabled programs
2703 2011-03-26 20:05:11 phantomtel has joined
2704 2011-03-26 20:05:22 <phantomtel> LIKEABOSS
2705 2011-03-26 20:05:24 <phantomcircuit> lulz
2706 2011-03-26 20:05:44 <curiositysquared> I'm not finding anything about lfnet.net or lfnet.org
2707 2011-03-26 20:05:50 <ArtForz> lfnet.org
2708 2011-03-26 20:05:57 <curiositysquared> genjix - connecting to a irc server is trivial, true.
2709 2011-03-26 20:05:59 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, it uses a specific ip
2710 2011-03-26 20:06:15 <phantomcircuit> i have some python code that connects to the irc server and dumps nodes
2711 2011-03-26 20:06:17 <genjix> curiositysquared: just search irc bot... it can be coded in 20 lines or less
2712 2011-03-26 20:06:22 <curiositysquared> but how irc servers scale through the thousands of users and thousands of channels and handle all that. That's what I don't understand.
2713 2011-03-26 20:06:34 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, actually pretty poorly
2714 2011-03-26 20:06:35 <phantomcircuit> lol
2715 2011-03-26 20:06:40 <ArtForz> yeah
2716 2011-03-26 20:06:47 <curiositysquared> true enough.
2717 2011-03-26 20:06:48 phantomtel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2718 2011-03-26 20:06:52 <ArtForz> it's not like IRC is a high-bandwidth medium
2719 2011-03-26 20:07:26 <phantomcircuit> actually irc is a pretty terribly designed system when you really think about it
2720 2011-03-26 20:07:36 <ArtForz> well, "designed"... more like grown
2721 2011-03-26 20:07:40 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2722 2011-03-26 20:07:59 <phantomcircuit> if you add a server it's like having everybody connected twice
2723 2011-03-26 20:08:26 <curiositysquared> ? so if freenode currently has around 18 servers (is that about correct?)
2724 2011-03-26 20:08:35 <genjix> no 25
2725 2011-03-26 20:08:42 <curiositysquared> and I join a channel with 1 friend of mine, but we're both connected to the same server.
2726 2011-03-26 20:08:48 <curiositysquared> Are our messages sent to all 25 servers?
2727 2011-03-26 20:08:52 <phantomcircuit> no
2728 2011-03-26 20:08:57 <curiositysquared> how does that work?
2729 2011-03-26 20:09:02 <curiositysquared> is there some dependency logic?
2730 2011-03-26 20:09:03 <genjix> *24 servers
2731 2011-03-26 20:09:06 <phantomcircuit> iirc freenode passes information about who is connected where
2732 2011-03-26 20:09:19 <curiositysquared> so if someone is in a channel from every server.
2733 2011-03-26 20:09:24 <curiositysquared> then that message has to span the network?
2734 2011-03-26 20:09:25 <ArtForz> iirc each server knows which server a user is connected to
2735 2011-03-26 20:09:26 Zarutian has joined
2736 2011-03-26 20:09:27 <phantomcircuit> yes
2737 2011-03-26 20:09:37 <curiositysquared> and hence the scaling problem in channels like this one
2738 2011-03-26 20:09:40 <ArtForz> so each server has to keep track of *all* users ...
2739 2011-03-26 20:09:41 <curiositysquared> or any other very busy one.
2740 2011-03-26 20:09:48 <phantomcircuit> you can do some pretty trivial amplification attacks by connecting to all the servers
2741 2011-03-26 20:09:48 <curiositysquared> and that doesn't scale
2742 2011-03-26 20:10:04 <curiositysquared> a better algorithm would be O(ln(users))
2743 2011-03-26 20:10:23 <redMBA> does bitcoin claim any intellectual property today?
2744 2011-03-26 20:10:31 larsivi has joined
2745 2011-03-26 20:10:37 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2746 2011-03-26 20:10:38 <phantomcircuit> a better algorithm would be for channels to be server local and force clients to reconnect to that server
2747 2011-03-26 20:10:43 <phantomcircuit> redMBA, what?
2748 2011-03-26 20:10:48 <ArtForz> redMBA: huh?
2749 2011-03-26 20:10:53 <genjix> i like irc protocol
2750 2011-03-26 20:10:53 <curiositysquared> I can't find hardly any information on lfnet.
2751 2011-03-26 20:10:54 <phantomcircuit> but that would be a major shift
2752 2011-03-26 20:10:58 <phantomcircuit> so that's not gonna happen
2753 2011-03-26 20:11:01 <genjix> even if it's not perfect, it *works*
2754 2011-03-26 20:11:02 <curiositysquared> efnet is the original irc network
2755 2011-03-26 20:11:08 <ArtForz> yep
2756 2011-03-26 20:11:13 <curiositysquared> but what is lfnet? It has almost 0 http presence
2757 2011-03-26 20:11:18 <genjix> (unlike ftp)
2758 2011-03-26 20:11:44 <ArtForz> well, ftp also works, for small values of "works"
2759 2011-03-26 20:11:57 <phantomcircuit> lol
2760 2011-03-26 20:12:04 <phantomcircuit> ftp works fine
2761 2011-03-26 20:12:05 <ArtForz> one old proto I find pretty impressive, nntp
2762 2011-03-26 20:12:07 <phantomcircuit> over ipv6
2763 2011-03-26 20:12:37 <redMBA> phantomcircuit, ArtForz : has anyone looked at getting IP protections for aspects of the bitcoin algorithms
2764 2011-03-26 20:12:54 <ArtForz> what IP?
2765 2011-03-26 20:13:00 <redMBA> intellectual property
2766 2011-03-26 20:13:01 <phantomcircuit> redMBA, that doesn't make any sense at all
2767 2011-03-26 20:13:08 <phantomcircuit> you mean like patenting it?
2768 2011-03-26 20:13:14 <ArtForz> well, theres about 4e3 kinds of IP
2769 2011-03-26 20:13:30 <redMBA> there are other IP forms outside of patent, but yes patents would be one way
2770 2011-03-26 20:13:41 <phantomcircuit> redMBA, what would be the point?
2771 2011-03-26 20:13:52 <curiositysquared> who runs irc.lfnet.org?
2772 2011-03-26 20:14:16 <redMBA> to secure the bitcoin market against competing digital currencies for a bit
2773 2011-03-26 20:14:43 <jasonphd> jgarzik: i have your poold.py running, and clients pointing to it say the work unit was accepted, however the command line of poold.py reads "CHECKWORK hash(False)".... and the accepted column in sql gets recorded as "n".... is that because the work really was accepted, but credits are only given for "blocks" that are accepted?  an average how many credits should it take to find a block?
2774 2011-03-26 20:15:00 <redMBA> plus for me to to a tech commercialization project on bitcoin for my coursework, the prof wants to see IP controls
2775 2011-03-26 20:15:28 <phantomcircuit> redMBA, there's no point
2776 2011-03-26 20:15:35 <curiositysquared> genjix, ArtForz - when I connect to irc.lfnet.org I see the entire network has less than 1400 connections.
2777 2011-03-26 20:15:37 <genjix> tell him to shut his whore mouth
2778 2011-03-26 20:15:50 <phantomcircuit> redMBA, the source is all BSD, the algorithms are clearly public domain
2779 2011-03-26 20:15:53 <genjix> curiositysquared: yeah not everybody is connect everyday all week long
2780 2011-03-26 20:16:07 <genjix> it's 4k different IPs over a week
2781 2011-03-26 20:16:07 <curiositysquared> ahh. around 4k users
2782 2011-03-26 20:16:17 <curiositysquared> but anyone not connected can't mine
2783 2011-03-26 20:16:28 <curiositysquared> there currently can't be more than 1300 accounts mining.
2784 2011-03-26 20:16:35 <ArtForz> sure can
2785 2011-03-26 20:16:38 <curiositysquared> (obviously there's 60ghashes in slush)
2786 2011-03-26 20:16:44 <ArtForz> not every miner needs to run a node 24/7
2787 2011-03-26 20:17:01 <curiositysquared> but besides pooled mining.... I mean this second.
2788 2011-03-26 20:17:03 <phantomcircuit> not to mention if the irc connection dies the client doesn't try reconnect
2789 2011-03-26 20:17:15 <phantomcircuit> so there could be nodes up but not on irc
2790 2011-03-26 20:17:15 <curiositysquared> how long would a miner be able to mine without a connection?
2791 2011-03-26 20:17:20 <curiositysquared> oh.
2792 2011-03-26 20:17:22 <curiositysquared> duh.
2793 2011-03-26 20:17:25 <ArtForz> pool miners using something like mybitcoin wouldnt ever need to run a node at all
2794 2011-03-26 20:17:25 <curiositysquared> irc bootstraps
2795 2011-03-26 20:17:35 <curiositysquared> right
2796 2011-03-26 20:17:46 <curiositysquared> so how does one get the actual count of nodes connected to the p2p network?
2797 2011-03-26 20:17:46 <genjix> so the ~10k users comes from taking that 4k and doubling it.
2798 2011-03-26 20:17:51 <curiositysquared> or is that basically impossible?
2799 2011-03-26 20:18:08 <genjix> it's a magnitude figure, not an estimation.
2800 2011-03-26 20:18:39 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, you write a node that uses getaddr to get a full listing of the peers
2801 2011-03-26 20:18:54 <curiositysquared> ok
2802 2011-03-26 20:18:55 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, of course that would miss mybitcoin and pooled miners, but would be much closer than irc
2803 2011-03-26 20:19:00 <redMBA> phantomcircuit, for instance a trademark is a form of IP, did bitcoin ever coalesce on a trademark?
2804 2011-03-26 20:19:19 <genjix> phantomcircuit: hmm has anyone done this?
2805 2011-03-26 20:19:22 <curiositysquared> Not sure who runs this, but his number is 1.5k 19hours ago.
2806 2011-03-26 20:19:23 <curiositysquared> http://twitter.com/bitcoineconomy/status/51456742709665792#
2807 2011-03-26 20:19:43 <phantomcircuit> genjix, i dont know, it would be trivial to modify my hilariously broken client to do that though
2808 2011-03-26 20:20:19 <genjix> cool
2809 2011-03-26 20:20:30 <genjix> how is your client doing btw?
2810 2011-03-26 20:20:50 <curiositysquared> ... am I understanding right? The answer you gave to my question isn't something that someone has running at the moment?
2811 2011-03-26 20:20:58 <phantomcircuit> i've got the network protocol down 100%
2812 2011-03-26 20:21:05 <genjix> would be cool to join spesmilo with your code if you get it bootstrapped.
2813 2011-03-26 20:21:12 <genjix> you're using py3?
2814 2011-03-26 20:21:14 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|4k different ip != 4k different miners... many uses dhcp and get a different ip quite often
2815 2011-03-26 20:21:14 <phantomcircuit> but synchronizing between all the peers is a massive pita
2816 2011-03-26 20:21:16 lianj_ has joined
2817 2011-03-26 20:21:18 <phantomcircuit> genjix, yeah
2818 2011-03-26 20:21:38 <genjix> hmm Qt is only working for py2 atm :/
2819 2011-03-26 20:21:51 <curiositysquared> so basically, getting the number of users to an accuracy beyond 50% is a pita.
2820 2011-03-26 20:21:55 <genjix> would it not be possible to add branches for compatibility?
2821 2011-03-26 20:21:57 <phantomcircuit> going from py3 to py2 isn't terribly difficult
2822 2011-03-26 20:22:09 <genjix> yep
2823 2011-03-26 20:22:36 <phantomcircuit> what's getting me now is coming up with an elegant way to store the block chain that's also fast an portable
2824 2011-03-26 20:22:48 <phantomcircuit> i got it working with postgre and it was ridiculously fast
2825 2011-03-26 20:22:54 <phantomcircuit> but really that's not going to work
2826 2011-03-26 20:22:56 <genjix> sweet
2827 2011-03-26 20:22:59 <genjix> why not
2828 2011-03-26 20:23:17 <phantomcircuit> how many people are going to install postgre to run a client?
2829 2011-03-26 20:23:50 <genjix> loads of programs do that
2830 2011-03-26 20:23:50 <curiositysquared> you need any of the postgre heavy features? Why not sqlite?
2831 2011-03-26 20:24:02 <curiositysquared> (and many of those programs are annoying)
2832 2011-03-26 20:24:11 <phantomcircuit> sqlite can only do like 6 commits/second
2833 2011-03-26 20:24:15 <genjix> phantomcircuit: i use 3 programs that depend on pg/msql
2834 2011-03-26 20:24:24 <phantomcircuit> so to use it i'd have to build a cache on top of sqlite3 for inserts
2835 2011-03-26 20:24:32 <genjix> PokerTracker3 depends on postgresql
2836 2011-03-26 20:24:32 <phantomcircuit> and i did
2837 2011-03-26 20:24:37 <phantomcircuit> but it crashes constantly
2838 2011-03-26 20:24:45 <genjix> ugly. just use postgres already.
2839 2011-03-26 20:24:50 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|why a cache, too much io?
2840 2011-03-26 20:24:59 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, dat fsync
2841 2011-03-26 20:25:39 <curiositysquared> If anyone answered, I missed it. But, irc.lfnet.org is a pretty undocumented irc server. How did bitcoin come to use it? Where'd it comefrom? I'm not seeing anything in the forum about why it's used or anything about it.
2842 2011-03-26 20:25:39 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, recent version of sqlite have a fast write mode/thingy, really fast for writes
2843 2011-03-26 20:25:57 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, PRAGMA synchronous=OFF;
2844 2011-03-26 20:26:04 <genjix> http://www.pyside.org/docs/pyside/PySide/QtSql/index.html
2845 2011-03-26 20:26:12 <phantomcircuit> only problem is that if you get a crash it ends up corrupting the db
2846 2011-03-26 20:26:15 <ArtForz> iirc it's run by one of the very early bitcoin adopters
2847 2011-03-26 20:26:16 <genjix> PySide is the Nokia Qt bindings
2848 2011-03-26 20:26:24 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, no
2849 2011-03-26 20:26:35 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, that's all i could find
2850 2011-03-26 20:26:38 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, I think it's shared cache mode
2851 2011-03-26 20:26:40 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2852 2011-03-26 20:26:44 <genjix> phantomcircuit: http://www.pyside.org/docs/pyside/PySide/QtSql/index.html
2853 2011-03-26 20:26:49 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, in v3.3
2854 2011-03-26 20:27:06 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|http://www.sqlite.org/sharedcache.html
2855 2011-03-26 20:27:06 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, yeah that doesn't help
2856 2011-03-26 20:27:21 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, my problem is one of simple physics
2857 2011-03-26 20:27:28 <phantomcircuit> disk doesn't rotate fast enough
2858 2011-03-26 20:27:50 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, actually, i'm not sure it's that feature, let me read a bit
2859 2011-03-26 20:28:23 <phantomcircuit> believe me sqlite is incapable of doing more than a couple of commit's/second
2860 2011-03-26 20:29:10 <genjix> use MySQL:InnoDB
2861 2011-03-26 20:29:17 <genjix> mysql is the fastes SQL there is.
2862 2011-03-26 20:29:21 <genjix> *fastest
2863 2011-03-26 20:29:32 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|ahhhh phantomcircuit it's WAL - write-ahead log
2864 2011-03-26 20:29:45 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, ill try it
2865 2011-03-26 20:30:05 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|you can do a lot of fast writes, and the data it just appended to a log, and every once in a while the database is updated and fsync'ed
2866 2011-03-26 20:31:30 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|http://www.sqlite.org/wal.html
2867 2011-03-26 20:31:49 <genjix> "MySQL handles connections very fast, thus making it suitable to use MySQL for Web - if you have hundreds of CGIs connecting/disconnecting all the time you'd like to avoid long startup procedures."
2868 2011-03-26 20:31:58 <genjix> you should just use MySQL :p
2869 2011-03-26 20:32:15 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|for using it, see http://www.sqlite.org/pragma.html#pragma_journal_mode
2870 2011-03-26 20:35:11 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, you'll want to batch multiple insert/updates together to reduce the number of fsync's
2871 2011-03-26 20:35:21 <phantomcircuit> dermoth|home, *slightly* faster
2872 2011-03-26 20:36:40 <phantomcircuit> appears to have doubled the commit speed
2873 2011-03-26 20:36:42 <phantomcircuit> which is nice
2874 2011-03-26 20:36:45 <phantomcircuit> but not significant
2875 2011-03-26 20:37:16 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|phantomcircuit, how big are the insert/updates?
2876 2011-03-26 20:37:20 <phantomcircuit> see i cant batch insert/updates like that though
2877 2011-03-26 20:37:50 <phantomcircuit> ah hell i know why this is so annoying
2878 2011-03-26 20:38:32 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|ok.. i might be confusing with other db's... but if you,re actually writing large chunk of data you may need to compile with a larger SQLITE_DEFAULT_WAL_AUTOCHECKPOINT value (http://www.sqlite.org/compile.html#default_wal_autocheckpoint)
2879 2011-03-26 20:38:43 <genjix> wtf
2880 2011-03-26 20:38:53 <phantomcircuit> you really dont have any idea what im saying
2881 2011-03-26 20:38:59 <genjix> phantomcircuit: what's the big deal about using the *fastest* database around- mysql?
2882 2011-03-26 20:39:05 gasteve has joined
2883 2011-03-26 20:39:12 <phantomcircuit> the problem is that i have multiple overlapping inserts
2884 2011-03-26 20:39:22 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|ohhhh
2885 2011-03-26 20:39:34 <phantomcircuit> so like
2886 2011-03-26 20:39:38 <lfm> id guess for best effect make sure you are using a logging file system
2887 2011-03-26 20:39:39 <phantomcircuit> insert 1,2,3,4,5
2888 2011-03-26 20:39:44 <phantomcircuit> insert 3,4,5,6,7,8
2889 2011-03-26 20:39:56 <phantomcircuit> the first one succeeds
2890 2011-03-26 20:40:03 <phantomcircuit> but the second one will *always* fail
2891 2011-03-26 20:40:39 <phantomcircuit> because sqlalchemy doesn't have insert or replace behavior
2892 2011-03-26 20:40:44 <phantomcircuit> so i have to use merge
2893 2011-03-26 20:40:49 <jgarzik> jasonphd: CHECKWORK(false) means a pool share was successfully generated by a client, but upstream (full difficulty target) bitcoind returned false.  upstream returns false until a full-difficulty block is generated.
2894 2011-03-26 20:40:55 <jgarzik> jasonphd: so 'true' is a very rare event
2895 2011-03-26 20:41:02 <jgarzik> jasonphd: and cause for celebration :)
2896 2011-03-26 20:41:04 <phantomcircuit> except if i have a bunch of things all making overlapping commits at the same time
2897 2011-03-26 20:41:09 <phantomcircuit> none of them will ever succeed
2898 2011-03-26 20:41:11 <jgarzik> 50 BTC buys some good wine
2899 2011-03-26 20:41:13 <phantomcircuit> so merge will never work
2900 2011-03-26 20:41:16 <phantomcircuit> get it?
2901 2011-03-26 20:41:41 <lfm> 1 in 69000
2902 2011-03-26 20:41:59 <phantomcircuit> lfm, well yeah
2903 2011-03-26 20:42:05 <phantomcircuit> every so often i get a commit
2904 2011-03-26 20:42:21 <dermoth> home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|kind of... I assumed it was a bit simpler.... i don't actually know much about the client storage besides the "block" thing everyone knows about :)
2905 2011-03-26 20:42:48 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2906 2011-03-26 20:43:19 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2907 2011-03-26 20:43:34 skeledrew has joined
2908 2011-03-26 20:48:54 <phantomcircuit> eh fuck it im going back to a mp approach
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2914 2011-03-26 21:04:36 <jasonphd> jgarzik: one "true" == 50 BTC, correct?  at bitpenny, they give you about 0.00065 BTC per share.... so i should see 50 BTC after processing about 76,923 shares (50 / .00065)?  and not one fraction of a BTC until that point?
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2919 2011-03-26 21:05:21 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4983.0
2920 2011-03-26 21:05:22 <jgarzik> [PATCH] wallet private key encryption
2921 2011-03-26 21:05:24 <ArtForz> on average, yes
2922 2011-03-26 21:07:29 <jgarzik> Hopefully this will spark discussion about the proper solution for wallet encryption, now that code is out there.
2923 2011-03-26 21:08:13 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2924 2011-03-26 21:08:26 <jgarzik> http://yyz.us/bitcoin/patch.bitcoin-wallet-crypter
2925 2011-03-26 21:09:19 <sipa> ow, nice
2926 2011-03-26 21:09:26 robotarmy has joined
2927 2011-03-26 21:10:15 Necr0s has joined
2928 2011-03-26 21:10:47 <Necr0s> Thats' weird how freenode won't let be connect from a 166.166. ip.  It says "SASL required".
2929 2011-03-26 21:11:05 <Necr0s> But if I change to a 98. address it lets me connect just fine.
2930 2011-03-26 21:12:05 <ArtForz> no clue... blacklist maybe?
2931 2011-03-26 21:12:18 <Necr0s> I guess.
2932 2011-03-26 21:12:28 <Necr0s> It's the same on all the freenode servers.
2933 2011-03-26 21:13:02 <Validus> do you have sasl.dll and .mrc?
2934 2011-03-26 21:13:08 <Validus> http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/connecting-to-freenode-using-tor-sasl/
2935 2011-03-26 21:13:11 <Necr0s> I don't think so.
2936 2011-03-26 21:13:59 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2937 2011-03-26 21:14:04 <Validus> http://wiki.honk-honk.org/wiki/SaslServ
2938 2011-03-26 21:14:16 <Validus> theres another one i dont know hwo relevant that is but whats popping up on sasl google for irc
2939 2011-03-26 21:14:20 <Validus> how*
2940 2011-03-26 21:14:46 <Necr0s> hm.
2941 2011-03-26 21:15:04 <Necr0s> yea, I use an oddball irc client that I don't think supports that.
2942 2011-03-26 21:15:10 ousado_ has joined
2943 2011-03-26 21:15:13 <Necr0s> oh well
2944 2011-03-26 21:16:34 BlueMatt has joined
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2946 2011-03-26 21:17:17 <phantomcircuit> Necr0s, tor exit node?
2947 2011-03-26 21:17:33 ousado_ is now known as ousado
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2950 2011-03-26 21:18:02 <Necr0s> neg
2951 2011-03-26 21:18:14 <Necr0s> I am not master of teh tor enough to use it.
2952 2011-03-26 21:18:36 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: NICE
2953 2011-03-26 21:20:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but as nice as it is, it might be unwise to put it into -patched, as that would create potentially incompatible private keys out in the field, while this is being developed.
2954 2011-03-26 21:20:39 * jgarzik feels compelled to add disclaimers :)
2955 2011-03-26 21:20:47 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, no I wasnt really considering it
2956 2011-03-26 21:20:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: at least not for quite a while
2957 2011-03-26 21:25:04 <genjix> replied :9
2958 2011-03-26 21:25:24 <genjix> Also: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4984
2959 2011-03-26 21:26:03 <UukGoblin> hrm, I'm trying to google the experiment where they spun a carbon nanotube in low temperature to see if they can propagate information faster than light...
2960 2011-03-26 21:26:20 <UukGoblin> it vaguely rings a bell but I'm not sure what it was really about, and can't seem to find it now
2961 2011-03-26 21:26:50 <Necr0s> I read about a different faster than light experiment.
2962 2011-03-26 21:27:05 <Necr0s> Involving a laser and a cesium-filled chamber.
2963 2011-03-26 21:27:35 <Necr0s> Something involvinb "borrowing" bits of atoms in order to propagate a signal faster than light-speed.   I think it succeeded.
2964 2011-03-26 21:27:58 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2965 2011-03-26 21:28:00 <Necr0s> I remember readong how the laser beam exited the far side of the chamber before it entered the near side.
2966 2011-03-26 21:28:02 <genjix> jgarzik: do you want me to create an API for http://britcoin.co.uk/ to add to bitcoinwatch?
2967 2011-03-26 21:28:03 <UukGoblin> hm link would be nice ;-]
2968 2011-03-26 21:28:16 <Necr0s> yeah...it was quite some years back...
2969 2011-03-26 21:28:41 <jgarzik> genjix: is it an mtgox-like exchange, with an order book, bids and asks?
2970 2011-03-26 21:28:41 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2971 2011-03-26 21:28:46 <genjix> yep
2972 2011-03-26 21:28:51 <ArtForz> I dont even bother trying to understand the FTL-using-quantum-phenomena stuff
2973 2011-03-26 21:28:57 <Necr0s> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/07/19/tech/main216905.shtml
2974 2011-03-26 21:29:06 <jgarzik> genjix: yes, please make it similar to an existing exchange
2975 2011-03-26 21:29:21 <genjix> which api is more standard?
2976 2011-03-26 21:29:38 <jgarzik> genjix: all of mtgox/btcex/bitcoinmarket/bitcoin-exchange have APIs, and the last thing I need is yet another /different/ API...
2977 2011-03-26 21:29:39 <jgarzik> :)
2978 2011-03-26 21:29:57 <jgarzik> genjix: no real standards, which is part of the problem :(
2979 2011-03-26 21:30:20 <Necr0s> Lots of people in the lagacy finance world are fond of interactivebrokers.com.
2980 2011-03-26 21:30:32 <Necr0s> Which offers trading APIs and access to all kinds of markets.
2981 2011-03-26 21:30:35 <genjix> what do you need from mtgox? just getTrades.php?
2982 2011-03-26 21:30:50 <Necr0s> they might be a decent model to look towards when designing such an API.
2983 2011-03-26 21:30:56 <genjix> or ticker.php
2984 2011-03-26 21:31:14 <jgarzik> genjix: your reply, RE wallet encryption, is difficult to understand.  you posted some basic encryption code that does not seem to have direct relation to the official bitcoin client?
2985 2011-03-26 21:31:37 <jgarzik> genjix: ticker -and- getTrades
2986 2011-03-26 21:31:48 <Necr0s> It would be awesome if IB could be persuaded to themselves provide access to the BTC currency market.
2987 2011-03-26 21:31:49 <genjix> it's a wrapper for doing SSL SEAL generate key/encryption/decryption
2988 2011-03-26 21:31:52 <genjix> ok
2989 2011-03-26 21:31:52 <jgarzik> genjix: need current ticker + trade history
2990 2011-03-26 21:32:00 <jgarzik> genjix: ok... and?
2991 2011-03-26 21:33:04 <jgarzik> genjix: anybody can write a command line crypt demo in C
2992 2011-03-26 21:33:40 <genjix> ok
2993 2011-03-26 21:35:28 <genjix> wait... trades.php on mtgox only deals with one currency
2994 2011-03-26 21:35:28 fleg has joined
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2999 2011-03-26 21:57:05 robotarmy has joined
3000 2011-03-26 21:59:50 AmpEater has joined
3001 2011-03-26 22:05:30 <genjix> jgarzik: i think you are entitled to the 13 btc wallet enc bounty
3002 2011-03-26 22:05:50 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3003 2011-03-26 22:06:15 <jgarzik> genjix: I have plenty of BTC, so I'm not worried about that.  Keep it or send it to the faucet or something.
3004 2011-03-26 22:06:45 <genjix> ok
3005 2011-03-26 22:07:13 <genjix> (going to faucet)
3006 2011-03-26 22:07:14 AmpEater has joined
3007 2011-03-26 22:07:19 <xelister> genjix: or
3008 2011-03-26 22:07:25 <xelister> to bitcoin over freenet \o/
3009 2011-03-26 22:08:07 <genjix> xelister: put up an item and see if you get donations for it :p http://bitcoin.cz.cc
3010 2011-03-26 22:11:24 Lord_Icon has joined
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3012 2011-03-26 22:14:25 dishwara has joined
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3014 2011-03-26 22:16:58 <xelister> .cz.cc ?
3015 2011-03-26 22:17:12 <genjix> yes
3016 2011-03-26 22:18:49 slothbag has joined
3017 2011-03-26 22:19:18 <xelister> ** server can't find bitcoin.cz.cc: SERVFAIL
3018 2011-03-26 22:20:27 <genjix> http://bitcoin.cz.cc/
3019 2011-03-26 22:20:36 <genjix> does that not work for you?
3020 2011-03-26 22:20:48 <xelister> not for me
3021 2011-03-26 22:21:04 <xelister> is it a new domain?
3022 2011-03-26 22:21:08 <ArtForz> works fine here
3023 2011-03-26 22:21:13 EPiSKiNG has quit ()
3024 2011-03-26 22:21:14 <genjix> no, been there a week now
3025 2011-03-26 22:21:36 <genjix> weird...
3026 2011-03-26 22:21:38 <dishwara> bitcoinpool.com not working for me past 8 hours
3027 2011-03-26 22:22:00 <genjix> xelister: http://109.75.176.109
3028 2011-03-26 22:22:30 <genjix> does that work?
3029 2011-03-26 22:22:44 <dishwara> but using tor i can access site
3030 2011-03-26 22:22:58 <dishwara> but how to use tor to mine from bitcoinpool?
3031 2011-03-26 22:24:50 <xelister> genjix: works
3032 2011-03-26 22:25:00 <xelister> genjix: a bit small amounts thou...
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3045 2011-03-26 22:37:00 <reubgr> Hi. I seem to remember a wiki page somewhere that listed a bunch of failure scenarios for bitcoin, but can't find it now. Does anyone know where I can find it?
3046 2011-03-26 22:38:00 Bosma has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
3047 2011-03-26 22:38:22 <genjix> jgarzik: how do you want me to denominate last+volume? last = last order for buy/sell/both? volume is total bitcoins?
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3062 2011-03-26 22:57:21 <genjix> jgarzik: https://britcoin.co.uk/api/trades.php
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3065 2011-03-26 23:08:17 <slush> ArtForz: what means "Glass house, meet stone" ? :)
3066 2011-03-26 23:08:27 <slush> I cannot google it O:-)
3067 2011-03-26 23:09:15 <reubgr> slush: are you not American -- is that why you don't get the idiom?
3068 2011-03-26 23:09:35 <slush> reubgr: I'm definitely not American :)
3069 2011-03-26 23:09:49 <reubgr> the idiom is "People in glass houses should not throw stones" -- meaning that people who are vulnerable to a certain criticism shouldn't make it themselves against others
3070 2011-03-26 23:10:04 <slush> oh, thanks ;)
3071 2011-03-26 23:10:21 <reubgr> depending on the context, it may mean, here is the criticism right back in your face
3072 2011-03-26 23:10:28 <slush> yes, it fits
3073 2011-03-26 23:11:38 EPiSKiNG has joined
3074 2011-03-26 23:16:01 <jgarzik> genjix: volume is bitcoins in past 24 hours
3075 2011-03-26 23:16:08 <jgarzik> genjix: last is most recent trade
3076 2011-03-26 23:18:35 <jgarzik> hum
3077 2011-03-26 23:18:39 <jgarzik> I need getblockbyhash
3078 2011-03-26 23:19:09 <LobsterMan> slush do you know how many visitors you get to http://mining.bitcoin.cz daily?
3079 2011-03-26 23:20:06 <slush> LobsterMan: between 2000-3000 visitors daily
3080 2011-03-26 23:20:31 <slush> why?
3081 2011-03-26 23:20:48 <LobsterMan> just wondering
3082 2011-03-26 23:21:07 <slush> do you see any traffic from my site to your blog?
3083 2011-03-26 23:21:14 <LobsterMan> yes :]
3084 2011-03-26 23:21:22 <slush> :)
3085 2011-03-26 23:21:40 <[Tycho]> ArtForz spoiled my proposed experiment on FairUser :)
3086 2011-03-26 23:22:25 <ArtForz> lol
3087 2011-03-26 23:23:03 <[Tycho]> Glass house can also refer to their "stats transparency' :)
3088 2011-03-26 23:23:15 <ArtForz> I'm getting slightly annoyed with his tone and attitude
3089 2011-03-26 23:23:42 <slush> lol, I just missed 60 BTC :))
3090 2011-03-26 23:24:52 <slush> They use every smallest chance to attack me
3091 2011-03-26 23:25:04 <slush> And when I write arguments, they just skip it ;)
3092 2011-03-26 23:25:05 <ArtForz> not only you
3093 2011-03-26 23:27:21 <[Tycho]> WIN
3094 2011-03-26 23:27:28 <ArtForz> LOL
3095 2011-03-26 23:28:18 <slush> lol
3096 2011-03-26 23:28:53 <genjix> ok jgarzik ... I'll update volume, but the rest is OK.
3097 2011-03-26 23:29:26 <genjix> https://britcoin.co.uk/api/trades.php
3098 2011-03-26 23:29:41 <slush> btw adding +1 to current block number is also obscure way to track blocknum
3099 2011-03-26 23:29:59 <ArtForz> yeah, pretty... weird
3100 2011-03-26 23:36:53 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3101 2011-03-26 23:38:18 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3102 2011-03-26 23:46:41 <genjix> does volume measure the a) total amount of bitcoins that have been/are on the orderbooks or b) total amount of bitcoins that were actually bought?
3103 2011-03-26 23:54:20 <ArtForz> b)
3104 2011-03-26 23:54:49 <genjix> thanks
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