1 2011-04-01 00:00:49 <lfm> don't feel too bad, I suspect it was mainly your ignorant polititians who are at fault
2 2011-04-01 00:03:47 EPiSKiNG has joined
3 2011-04-01 00:04:06 toffoo has quit ()
4 2011-04-01 00:04:20 <EPiSKiNG> woo hoo.. I'm getting average of 640MH/s on my 5970
5 2011-04-01 00:04:32 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: wtg
6 2011-04-01 00:05:05 theorb has joined
7 2011-04-01 00:05:24 toffoo has joined
8 2011-04-01 00:05:34 EPiSKiNG has quit (Client Quit)
9 2011-04-01 00:05:55 <ArtForz> lol
10 2011-04-01 00:06:03 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
11 2011-04-01 00:06:09 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
12 2011-04-01 00:06:44 <theorbtwo> On the other hand, large parts of the world have gone with the flow and introduced daylight savings time, even when it doesn't make sense.
13 2011-04-01 00:07:39 <[Tycho]> This time it was last shift in my country...
14 2011-04-01 00:07:45 <lfm> theorbtwo: yes, DST is a big political football. i think its stupid but it seems we are stuck with it
15 2011-04-01 00:07:51 <ArtForz> yep
16 2011-04-01 00:09:13 <[Tycho]> Now we should switch off automatic adjustment everywhere...
17 2011-04-01 00:09:44 <ArtForz> it was always controversial, and nowadays it's pretty much guaranteed to be pointless
18 2011-04-01 00:09:56 <[Tycho]> Some people eve think that there is no way to disable automatic adjustment in Windows Mobile :)
19 2011-04-01 00:10:32 drazak has joined
20 2011-04-01 00:10:51 <lfm> too bad for you if you live in Saskatewan (Canada) cuz they nave never adopted DST
21 2011-04-01 00:11:12 <ArtForz> well, actually DST by itself wouldnt be that bad, but it seems every few months some govt somewhere likes to screw with it
22 2011-04-01 00:11:13 <lfm> Saskatchewan that is
23 2011-04-01 00:11:21 <[Tycho]> No, it's only in the timezones that had adopted it.
24 2011-04-01 00:11:54 <lfm> [Tycho]: well it would prolly take a windows update to turn it off I spoze
25 2011-04-01 00:12:28 <ArtForz> so to get properly working automatic switching, you need to keep OSes updated... pretty much forever
26 2011-04-01 00:12:41 <[Tycho]> I really doubt that there is autoupdate for Windows Mobile.
27 2011-04-01 00:12:54 <JFK911> they should just make a law setting timezones once and for all.
28 2011-04-01 00:13:02 antivigilante_ has joined
29 2011-04-01 00:13:07 <JFK911> it's working fine in china. that country is huge and they only have one timezone.
30 2011-04-01 00:13:11 <JFK911> it never changes.
31 2011-04-01 00:13:18 <ArtForz> yep
32 2011-04-01 00:13:21 <JFK911> on the other hand, look at the soviet union.
33 2011-04-01 00:13:22 <lfm> yup, and a lot of VCRs and such like devices do not change over at the right date cuz the date was moved forward a month a few years ago
34 2011-04-01 00:13:25 <JFK911> 11 time zones and perpetual chaos.
35 2011-04-01 00:13:34 <ArtForz> lfm: exactly
36 2011-04-01 00:13:58 antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
37 2011-04-01 00:14:04 <JFK911> lfm: product defect. any vcr smart enough to adjust its clock should get the time offset from a broadcast.
38 2011-04-01 00:14:17 <ArtForz> thats the problem
39 2011-04-01 00:14:25 <JFK911> things like thermostats that have no data source are problematic.
40 2011-04-01 00:14:35 <JFK911> well, they could have a data source.
41 2011-04-01 00:14:40 <ArtForz> iirc broadcasts carry... UTC
42 2011-04-01 00:14:41 <JFK911> vlf clock receiver.
43 2011-04-01 00:14:52 <JFK911> yea.. in the usa they contain some coded info about time.
44 2011-04-01 00:14:52 <ArtForz> and theres no standard for updating a TZ table
45 2011-04-01 00:14:55 <JFK911> leap seconds and such.
46 2011-04-01 00:15:03 <JFK911> "dst is coming" flag.
47 2011-04-01 00:15:11 <ArtForz> which helps... how?
48 2011-04-01 00:15:19 <lfm> sure we should pay 10x as much for every thermostat like device! hahaha
49 2011-04-01 00:15:23 <ArtForz> LF reach is well beyond state borders
50 2011-04-01 00:15:29 <JFK911> lfm: its a few dollars.
51 2011-04-01 00:15:41 <JFK911> well, here, there's only one state as far as you can see.
52 2011-04-01 00:15:44 <lfm> jfk and a thermostat can be a few cents
53 2011-04-01 00:16:00 <ArtForz> and LF carries over 1000s of miles
54 2011-04-01 00:16:03 <JFK911> in europe, the german time transmitter confirms to european harmonistic time rules.
55 2011-04-01 00:16:06 <gjs278> mine is a thermometer next to a candle
56 2011-04-01 00:16:09 <JFK911> *conforms.
57 2011-04-01 00:16:10 <ArtForz> yep
58 2011-04-01 00:16:17 <ArtForz> DCF77 is pretty useful
59 2011-04-01 00:16:40 <lfm> gjs278: the candle is a very old and respected time standard too
60 2011-04-01 00:16:40 <JFK911> so, i think what WWV does, is sets the "dst is coming" or "dst is leaving" bit for a week before the change.
61 2011-04-01 00:17:02 <ArtForz> btw, you can also use DCF77s *carrier* as a clock source
62 2011-04-01 00:17:10 <JFK911> right, it's a frequency standard!
63 2011-04-01 00:17:12 <ArtForz> yep
64 2011-04-01 00:17:20 <JFK911> also is why wwv HF is on 5/10/15 MHz
65 2011-04-01 00:17:27 <lfm> JFK911: you also need a switch for thermostats installed in places without dst
66 2011-04-01 00:17:41 <JFK911> lfm: that's currently resolved - installer set up menu
67 2011-04-01 00:17:52 <JFK911> my current stat lets me set no dst, old rules, new rules
68 2011-04-01 00:17:55 <ArtForz> iirc the 77.5kHz carrier is divided down from a cesium standard kept in sync with standard atomic time
69 2011-04-01 00:18:03 <lfm> JFK911: oh ok you have a keypad and lcd now too?
70 2011-04-01 00:18:11 <JFK911> no keypad - touchscreen
71 2011-04-01 00:18:20 <JFK911> tis the honeywell thing.
72 2011-04-01 00:18:32 <ArtForz> not too useful long-term due to spreading variations, but it makes for a decent short-ish term ref
73 2011-04-01 00:18:32 <JFK911> visionpro whatever.
74 2011-04-01 00:18:46 <JFK911> but thermostats usually have buttons anyway.
75 2011-04-01 00:19:03 <JFK911> most digital ones have an installer setup hidden in them.
76 2011-04-01 00:19:18 <JFK911> they really push the limits of a usable interface with minimum inputs and outputs
77 2011-04-01 00:19:54 <lfm> JFK911: off topic anyway, dst sucks for no gain.
78 2011-04-01 00:19:56 <JFK911> set the temp to 18, hold two buttons for four seconds, let go of one, put your right shoe on your head, and tap a third button twice.
79 2011-04-01 00:19:58 finnomenon has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
80 2011-04-01 00:20:05 <JFK911> bingo, you can now change settings.
81 2011-04-01 00:20:46 <[Tycho]> "<JFK911> 11 time zones and perpetual chaos" - number of timezones was already changed.
82 2011-04-01 00:21:03 <[Tycho]> And single timezone like it China wouldn't work.
83 2011-04-01 00:21:15 <lfm> its all a plot to make work for thermostat installers
84 2011-04-01 00:21:20 <ArtForz> lol
85 2011-04-01 00:22:52 finnomenon has joined
86 2011-04-01 00:27:58 sabalaba has joined
87 2011-04-01 00:30:22 kiba has joined
88 2011-04-01 00:31:52 Xunie has joined
89 2011-04-01 00:45:21 <Mango-chan> s> 150 btc
90 2011-04-01 00:46:06 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
91 2011-04-01 00:49:24 EPiSKiNG has joined
92 2011-04-01 00:50:12 <EPiSKiNG> do people see a worthy increase in MH/s with the -f1 switch in poclbm?
93 2011-04-01 00:51:26 <[Tycho]> Sometimes.
94 2011-04-01 00:51:45 <Blitzboom> i do
95 2011-04-01 00:51:46 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr anynumber * rec62543ed177 spesmilo/ (.gitmodules lib/anynumber settings.py): use anynumber Python module to parse and format number strings http://tinyurl.com/6czqgkq
96 2011-04-01 00:51:51 <[Tycho]> But it's bad for your desktop experience.
97 2011-04-01 00:53:14 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,diff
98 2011-04-01 00:53:15 <gribble> 68978.89245792
99 2011-04-01 00:53:22 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,estimate
100 2011-04-01 00:53:23 <gribble> 78533.19241529
101 2011-04-01 00:53:26 <EPiSKiNG> EWW!
102 2011-04-01 00:53:45 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,mtgox
103 2011-04-01 00:53:46 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.801,"low":0.768,"vol":7544,"buy":0.7753,"sell":0.798,"last":0.7753}}
104 2011-04-01 00:53:50 <luke-jr> genjix: ^ thoughts?
105 2011-04-01 00:53:53 <EPiSKiNG> down again?
106 2011-04-01 00:54:50 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,prob 1200000
107 2011-04-01 00:54:51 <gribble> Error: There's really no reason why you should have underscores or brackets in your mathematical expression. Please remove them.
108 2011-04-01 00:55:14 <EPiSKiNG> huh?
109 2011-04-01 00:55:23 <[Tycho]> There are reasons.
110 2011-04-01 00:55:33 <[Tycho]> For the lulz !
111 2011-04-01 00:56:01 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,prob 1200000 3d
112 2011-04-01 00:56:02 <gribble> 0.650020680958
113 2011-04-01 00:56:55 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,prob 1338860 3d
114 2011-04-01 00:56:56 <gribble> 0.690057960784
115 2011-04-01 00:57:24 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,nexttarget
116 2011-04-01 00:57:25 <gribble> 116927
117 2011-04-01 00:57:58 Minert has joined
118 2011-04-01 00:58:04 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,estimate
119 2011-04-01 00:58:05 <gribble> 78533.19241529
120 2011-04-01 00:58:54 <EPiSKiNG> isnt't there an estimated time to next difficulty?
121 2011-04-01 00:59:37 <EPiSKiNG> block distance to next diff/hashrate?
122 2011-04-01 00:59:49 <EPiSKiNG> ha
123 2011-04-01 00:59:54 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,timetonext
124 2011-04-01 00:59:56 <gribble> 5 days, 10 hours, 11 minutes, and 32 seconds
125 2011-04-01 01:00:39 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,prob 1338860 5 days, 10 hours, 11 minutes, and 32 seconds
126 2011-04-01 01:00:39 <gribble> Error: There's really no reason why you should have underscores or brackets in your mathematical expression. Please remove them.
127 2011-04-01 01:01:03 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,prob 1338860 5d 10h 11m 32s
128 2011-04-01 01:01:04 <gribble> 0.879740193717
129 2011-04-01 01:01:53 <EPiSKiNG> my pool is better than mining alone
130 2011-04-01 01:02:16 <EPiSKiNG> thanks Tycho for helping me benefit from others pulling the weight
131 2011-04-01 01:02:30 <EPiSKiNG> ;-)
132 2011-04-01 01:03:55 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
133 2011-04-01 01:04:11 <lfm> ya everyone should have their own pool
134 2011-04-01 01:04:27 <luke-jr> â¦
135 2011-04-01 01:05:52 <EPiSKiNG> but not everyone can own a gold mine, right?
136 2011-04-01 01:05:53 noagendamarket has joined
137 2011-04-01 01:06:28 sneak has joined
138 2011-04-01 01:06:54 sneak is now known as Guest43573
139 2011-04-01 01:07:22 <lfm> sure just make it the default, install bitcoin and it sets up your own pool and you join it automaticly
140 2011-04-01 01:08:12 <gasteve> is slush here?
141 2011-04-01 01:08:43 <gjs278> slush is too busy diving in his pool of bitcoins made with 2% of his pools earnings
142 2011-04-01 01:08:53 <lfm> pay yourself for each share out of the blocks you find
143 2011-04-01 01:09:33 <bitcoiner> you made a pool for solo mining ?
144 2011-04-01 01:09:34 <gasteve> I think there was a problem with the payout on the last block in slush's pool
145 2011-04-01 01:09:59 <gjs278> who do you guys think is better, slush or deepbit for about 400mhash output
146 2011-04-01 01:10:17 <EPiSKiNG> i think it's gonna be about the same
147 2011-04-01 01:10:19 <lfm> bitcoinya pools are so good, that everyone should have one
148 2011-04-01 01:10:31 <gasteve> I've only used slush, so I can't compare
149 2011-04-01 01:10:39 <EPiSKiNG> i've only used deepbit
150 2011-04-01 01:10:44 <gjs278> I'm on deepbit now, I like how I get paid quickly
151 2011-04-01 01:10:47 <bitcoiner> lfm i dont get it
152 2011-04-01 01:10:54 <gjs278> slush took forever on the confirmations... but if he makes more I'd flip
153 2011-04-01 01:11:11 <EPiSKiNG> deepbit takes like 3%
154 2011-04-01 01:11:15 <lfm> bitcoiner: sorry, I am kidding
155 2011-04-01 01:11:30 <EPiSKiNG> but yesterday there were 28 blocks found
156 2011-04-01 01:11:34 <gjs278> yep
157 2011-04-01 01:11:37 <gjs278> yesterday was insane
158 2011-04-01 01:11:47 <EPiSKiNG> my wallet liked it
159 2011-04-01 01:11:53 <gasteve> slush takes 2%...and he doesn't pay the mined coins until they are confirmed
160 2011-04-01 01:11:56 <bitcoiner> first day I joined slush I hit the 9 hours block
161 2011-04-01 01:12:00 <gjs278> haha
162 2011-04-01 01:12:22 <EPiSKiNG> I was thinking about http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4291.0
163 2011-04-01 01:12:27 <bitcoiner> havent been lucky with this bitcoin thing
164 2011-04-01 01:12:30 <EPiSKiNG> bitcoinpool.com
165 2011-04-01 01:12:35 <gjs278> eh
166 2011-04-01 01:12:39 <gjs278> too slow for my tastes
167 2011-04-01 01:12:51 <gjs278> I tried it and it was like a 2 day block
168 2011-04-01 01:12:56 <EPiSKiNG> yeah... if only Tycho wouldn't take fees, I'd be much happier ;=)
169 2011-04-01 01:13:23 <EPiSKiNG> I almost feel like if everyone was on the same pool, that'd be great
170 2011-04-01 01:13:27 <gjs278> I wish the two had much better stats so I could just compare
171 2011-04-01 01:13:29 <lfm> gjs278: I guess your ideal pool would be one where you get payed before you join
172 2011-04-01 01:13:42 <Minert> I hit BTCmine for their lottery lastnight. 2 blocks for over 11 btc. not bad for 20 hrs.
173 2011-04-01 01:13:50 <gjs278> of course not, but I really like how deepbit just credits me for it
174 2011-04-01 01:13:53 da2ceZzzz is now known as da2ce7
175 2011-04-01 01:13:53 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
176 2011-04-01 01:13:53 da2ce7 has joined
177 2011-04-01 01:13:55 <gjs278> and doesn't seem to be losing out at all?
178 2011-04-01 01:14:15 <gjs278> the confirmations for slushes pool seem to take so long
179 2011-04-01 01:14:30 <gasteve> for me, slush's pool seems to pay very close to the expected daily payout (as reported by ;;bc,gen)
180 2011-04-01 01:14:38 <EPiSKiNG> deepbit needs a tad bit of work....and i think for 3%, it's not asking too much
181 2011-04-01 01:14:43 <gjs278> yeah
182 2011-04-01 01:14:45 <gjs278> better stats
183 2011-04-01 01:14:46 DrQ has joined
184 2011-04-01 01:14:48 <EPiSKiNG> like graphs and when I personally find a block
185 2011-04-01 01:14:52 <EPiSKiNG> exactamundo
186 2011-04-01 01:15:12 <EPiSKiNG> How about this....
187 2011-04-01 01:15:19 <EPiSKiNG> I'm heading out of town in a couple hours for the weekend
188 2011-04-01 01:15:28 <gjs278> I wrote a script that grabs my earnings hourly and throws them on my desktop, next I'm writing one that manually asks for payment at 12 and resets my share count at midnight
189 2011-04-01 01:15:34 <EPiSKiNG> I have two systems that are nearly identical in MH/s
190 2011-04-01 01:15:38 <gjs278> alright
191 2011-04-01 01:15:50 <gjs278> that would be cool to see
192 2011-04-01 01:15:52 <EPiSKiNG> I could put one in slush, and one in deepbit
193 2011-04-01 01:16:01 <EPiSKiNG> but you gotta pay me to see results!
194 2011-04-01 01:16:02 <EPiSKiNG> ;-)
195 2011-04-01 01:16:03 <gjs278> what rate do you get
196 2011-04-01 01:16:17 <EPiSKiNG> last 7 minutes while using desktop
197 2011-04-01 01:16:19 <EPiSKiNG> 1227.29 MH/s
198 2011-04-01 01:16:24 <EPiSKiNG> divided by 2
199 2011-04-01 01:16:30 <gjs278> awesome
200 2011-04-01 01:16:37 <EPiSKiNG> 2 5970s
201 2011-04-01 01:16:50 <gjs278> I r poor, only have a 5870
202 2011-04-01 01:17:00 <gjs278> that I'm desperately trying to overvolt in linux with but finding no luck
203 2011-04-01 01:18:45 <bitcoiner> 5770 here dont cry :P
204 2011-04-01 01:19:07 <EPiSKiNG> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/accounts/register/
205 2011-04-01 01:19:11 <EPiSKiNG> is that slush's?
206 2011-04-01 01:19:20 <gjs278> yes
207 2011-04-01 01:22:35 robotarmy has joined
208 2011-04-01 01:23:28 <gasteve> I have two systems that are perfectly identical
209 2011-04-01 01:23:52 theymos has joined
210 2011-04-01 01:23:58 DrQ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
211 2011-04-01 01:24:18 <ArtForz> meh
212 2011-04-01 01:24:29 <theymos> How do you run listtransactions "*" from bash? I've tried listtransactions '"*"', but I get an empty array.
213 2011-04-01 01:25:18 <ArtForz> my 5970s average 700Mh/s
214 2011-04-01 01:25:36 <jgarzik> theymos: xlisttransactions
215 2011-04-01 01:25:50 <gjs278> # ./bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress
216 2011-04-01 01:25:51 <jgarzik> theymos: though 'listtransactions' with no args at all approximates
217 2011-04-01 01:25:59 <gjs278> yeah forget the *
218 2011-04-01 01:26:05 <ArtForz> well, 701.4, but who's counting
219 2011-04-01 01:26:25 <gjs278> I get 350 at 935 core, I crash occasionally at 950 while browsing
220 2011-04-01 01:26:32 <gjs278> on a 5870
221 2011-04-01 01:26:44 <ArtForz> sounds about right
222 2011-04-01 01:26:54 * jgarzik generated two blocks in a row. Whee. 3 so far today, after a 5+ day dry spell (99% probability)
223 2011-04-01 01:27:03 <gjs278> wow
224 2011-04-01 01:27:07 <gjs278> what are you running
225 2011-04-01 01:27:13 <jgarzik> pool server
226 2011-04-01 01:27:19 <luke-jr> ./bitcoind listtransactions \*
227 2011-04-01 01:27:30 <jgarzik> probably the smallest pool server out there, in terms of Ghps
228 2011-04-01 01:27:48 <gjs278> what's the total output on it
229 2011-04-01 01:27:54 <gjs278> 10ghs?
230 2011-04-01 01:28:17 <theymos> luke-jr: Thanks.
231 2011-04-01 01:28:39 DrQ has joined
232 2011-04-01 01:28:41 <gasteve> ArtForz: what are you clocking your 5970s at (on avg)?
233 2011-04-01 01:28:55 <theymos> I could've sworn I tried escaping the asterisk alone... Guess not.
234 2011-04-01 01:28:59 <luke-jr> hehe
235 2011-04-01 01:29:00 <ArtForz> 842
236 2011-04-01 01:29:03 <luke-jr> you can use single quotes too
237 2011-04-01 01:29:09 <luke-jr> kinda surprised " didn't work
238 2011-04-01 01:29:11 <gjs278> I don't even have to use the asterisk?
239 2011-04-01 01:29:23 <luke-jr> gjs278: you need the asterisk to specify a number after it
240 2011-04-01 01:29:43 <gjs278> ohh
241 2011-04-01 01:29:45 <gjs278> ok
242 2011-04-01 01:29:50 <gjs278> gotcha, I was looking at the wrong thing
243 2011-04-01 01:30:30 <jgarzik> gjs278: har, I wish
244 2011-04-01 01:30:42 <EPiSKiNG> 842?
245 2011-04-01 01:30:51 <gjs278> 842 sounds like a downclock
246 2011-04-01 01:30:59 <gasteve> I'm running Diablo's miner...I get about 620Mhash/s at 800mhz ...I wonder what I'd get at 840mhz with Diablo (don't wanna try until I get the new fans in place and see how low I can get the temp)
247 2011-04-01 01:31:00 <gjs278> I thought they ran at 850
248 2011-04-01 01:31:14 <gasteve> they are 725 stock
249 2011-04-01 01:31:17 <ArtForz> 725
250 2011-04-01 01:31:20 <EPiSKiNG> I'm running at 875/1000 1.1V
251 2011-04-01 01:31:37 <EPiSKiNG> and i get like 645 at max
252 2011-04-01 01:31:38 <ArtForz> 5970s also run at 1.05V stock instead of 1.1625V like 5870s
253 2011-04-01 01:31:47 <gjs278> oh ok
254 2011-04-01 01:31:52 <gjs278> I can do 1.35v max
255 2011-04-01 01:31:58 <ArtForz> you need 1.1 to hit 875? wow, thats one bad OCer
256 2011-04-01 01:32:00 <gasteve> what does changing the voltage buy you?
257 2011-04-01 01:32:06 <gjs278> more core clock
258 2011-04-01 01:32:18 <EPiSKiNG> my card runs hot in my case
259 2011-04-01 01:32:27 <gasteve> what temp?
260 2011-04-01 01:32:28 <EPiSKiNG> i get the whole 120C Vcoretemp
261 2011-04-01 01:32:34 <gjs278> wtf
262 2011-04-01 01:32:45 <EPiSKiNG> and it slows down when i get too high in the clock
263 2011-04-01 01:32:51 <gjs278> 120C??????
264 2011-04-01 01:32:57 <gjs278> has your house melted down yet
265 2011-04-01 01:33:04 <EPiSKiNG> nope
266 2011-04-01 01:33:07 <ArtForz> probably VRMs hitting 120°C
267 2011-04-01 01:33:12 <gasteve> Fukushima has nothing on you
268 2011-04-01 01:33:14 <EPiSKiNG> VRM is what i meant
269 2011-04-01 01:33:19 <gjs278> oh lol
270 2011-04-01 01:33:24 <EPiSKiNG> VDDCI Phase Temps
271 2011-04-01 01:33:31 <EPiSKiNG> i'm at 105C now
272 2011-04-01 01:33:37 <EPiSKiNG> max load for like 48hrs
273 2011-04-01 01:33:42 <ArtForz> core hitting 120 would be kinda weird, as the card shuts down hard at 110
274 2011-04-01 01:33:49 <gjs278> even 105 is really hot
275 2011-04-01 01:33:52 <EPiSKiNG> 80C on highest GPU
276 2011-04-01 01:34:05 <ArtForz> not really
277 2011-04-01 01:34:07 <gjs278> yeah okay that sounds about right
278 2011-04-01 01:34:21 <EPiSKiNG> 120 VDDC/VRM is when it throttles the GPU
279 2011-04-01 01:34:37 <gasteve> what is "VRM"
280 2011-04-01 01:34:41 <gjs278> I can get as low as 65C with the case open and the room really cold
281 2011-04-01 01:34:47 <ArtForz> voltage regulator module
282 2011-04-01 01:34:56 <ArtForz> core isnt the problem on 5970s
283 2011-04-01 01:34:57 <EPiSKiNG> I'm talking about the VDDC sensor in GPU-Z
284 2011-04-01 01:34:59 <gasteve> how do you check that temp?
285 2011-04-01 01:35:13 <gjs278> I bought an accelero so I don't have to listen to the hairdryer, it's getting here tomorrow
286 2011-04-01 01:35:15 <ArtForz> in windows, gpu-z, in linux, you're SOL
287 2011-04-01 01:35:23 <gasteve> wonderful
288 2011-04-01 01:35:35 <lfm> gasteve: VRM == Voltage Regulator Module
289 2011-04-01 01:35:40 <gjs278> there needs to be an afterburner/smartdoctor for linux
290 2011-04-01 01:35:43 <ArtForz> someone ordered fried 5970?
291 2011-04-01 01:35:59 <gjs278> aticonfig is so stupid
292 2011-04-01 01:36:03 <gjs278> it can't even downclock the memory
293 2011-04-01 01:36:07 <ArtForz> 2/2 of my 5970s with acceleros now are paperweights
294 2011-04-01 01:36:09 <gjs278> yet you can do it by flashing your bios
295 2011-04-01 01:36:13 <gjs278> really
296 2011-04-01 01:36:18 <ArtForz> yup
297 2011-04-01 01:36:22 <gjs278> fans didnt work?
298 2011-04-01 01:36:26 <ArtForz> fans worked fine
299 2011-04-01 01:36:34 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
300 2011-04-01 01:36:39 <ArtForz> VRMs of the ass-end GPU blew up
301 2011-04-01 01:36:43 <gjs278> hmm
302 2011-04-01 01:36:50 <ArtForz> at stock 1.05V
303 2011-04-01 01:36:53 <lfm> maybe depends if you use a standard referance card
304 2011-04-01 01:36:53 <EPiSKiNG> it's under warranty
305 2011-04-01 01:36:55 <EPiSKiNG> ;-)
306 2011-04-01 01:37:11 <gjs278> I have the asus 5870, will I fry
307 2011-04-01 01:37:14 <ArtForz> yes, ACs "haha, you're fucked" warranty
308 2011-04-01 01:37:25 <ArtForz> lfm: there are no non-ref 5970s
309 2011-04-01 01:37:35 <ArtForz> except for the 4GB dual-5870 designs
310 2011-04-01 01:37:42 <gjs278> comes with a gun!
311 2011-04-01 01:38:07 <JFK911> costs as much as 4 5870 cards
312 2011-04-01 01:38:31 <gjs278> you're paying for the gun. the graphics cards are just thrown in
313 2011-04-01 01:38:56 wolfspraul has joined
314 2011-04-01 01:39:08 <EPiSKiNG> do you guys think the 69 series will ever be better than the 5970>
315 2011-04-01 01:39:14 <gasteve> unless the gun shoot real bullets, probably not worth it
316 2011-04-01 01:39:15 <ArtForz> nope
317 2011-04-01 01:39:21 <EPiSKiNG> i mean, i know the stream processors are less
318 2011-04-01 01:39:29 <ArtForz> a tiny bit faster, WAY less efficient
319 2011-04-01 01:40:28 <ArtForz> even 6990 runs at 1.13Vcore stock
320 2011-04-01 01:40:29 <EPiSKiNG> you get 701MH/s?
321 2011-04-01 01:40:34 <ArtForz> yeah
322 2011-04-01 01:40:36 <EPiSKiNG> what are your settings?
323 2011-04-01 01:40:40 <ArtForz> custom CAL IL miner
324 2011-04-01 01:40:44 <EPiSKiNG> ohh
325 2011-04-01 01:41:22 <ArtForz> roughly similar to mrb's I guess
326 2011-04-01 01:41:30 <ArtForz> just a good chunk faster
327 2011-04-01 01:42:09 <ArtForz> I always seem to end up writing miners that are a few % faster than everyone elses for some reason, without trying *that* hard
328 2011-04-01 01:42:21 <EPiSKiNG> because you're better
329 2011-04-01 01:42:22 <bitcoiner> write me one
330 2011-04-01 01:42:31 <ArtForz> not really
331 2011-04-01 01:42:32 <EPiSKiNG> send me a copy of yours! ;)
332 2011-04-01 01:42:41 <ArtForz> I guess it's mostly a matter of luck
333 2011-04-01 01:43:31 <ArtForz> well, and for IL figuring out how to order things so the IL->shader asm compiler can decently pack shit into VLIWs
334 2011-04-01 01:44:59 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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336 2011-04-01 01:47:11 <EPiSKiNG> Off for the weekend
337 2011-04-01 01:47:12 <EPiSKiNG> bye!
338 2011-04-01 01:47:15 EPiSKiNG has quit ()
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342 2011-04-01 02:04:32 <jgarzik> it's not luck, just attention to detail :)
343 2011-04-01 02:04:50 <jgarzik> requires a person willing to skim a chipset doc page by page
344 2011-04-01 02:05:42 <ArtForz> aka good old microoptimization
345 2011-04-01 02:06:49 <ArtForz> which on todays archs usually boils down to "throw shit at the wall, measure execution time"
346 2011-04-01 02:08:05 <ArtForz> well, actually ATIs arch seems a lot easier to mircooptimize than modern CPUs
347 2011-04-01 02:09:03 <ArtForz> no stuff like complex branch predictors or weird cache interactions to get in the way
348 2011-04-01 02:10:35 <[Tycho]> :)
349 2011-04-01 02:10:48 <[Tycho]> modern CPUs are scary
350 2011-04-01 02:10:53 <ArtForz> yep
351 2011-04-01 02:11:21 <ArtForz> only really tricky part on ATI is understanding the rules for data paths to the ALUs
352 2011-04-01 02:11:31 LtBrenton_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
353 2011-04-01 02:11:51 <[Tycho]> When i look at ancient archs, i can clearly see what will happen with certain ASM programs. Or with simple microcontrollers like Z8. But with those CPUs it's magic.
354 2011-04-01 02:11:57 <ArtForz> yep
355 2011-04-01 02:12:52 <[Tycho]> But EPIC WLIV looks funny to me. I would like to try programming for e2k arch or at least Itanium.
356 2011-04-01 02:13:42 <ArtForz> Wery long Instruction Vord?
357 2011-04-01 02:13:45 <[Tycho]> Yes.
358 2011-04-01 02:14:04 <[Tycho]> Well. almost
359 2011-04-01 02:14:09 <[Tycho]> A typo :)
360 2011-04-01 02:14:52 <ArtForz> yeah, one nice part about VLIWs, it's still decently easy to beat a compiler
361 2011-04-01 02:19:25 <jgarzik> with modern CPUs' register renaming, registers aren't even registers anymore.
362 2011-04-01 02:33:24 WakiMiko_ has joined
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368 2011-04-01 02:36:45 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rf34720b139b5 spesmilo/core_interface.py: Bugfix: need to make sure we round to handle float precision garbage in RPCv0 http://tinyurl.com/4ba3j67
369 2011-04-01 02:40:04 gjs278 has joined
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371 2011-04-01 02:40:45 <gjs278> [Tycho] did you do something to get rid of those messages in poclbm where it would say the worker is idle? I haven't gotten one since you had the downtime a bit ago.
372 2011-04-01 02:43:29 jackSmith has joined
373 2011-04-01 02:44:33 <[Tycho]> gjs278. what messages ?
374 2011-04-01 02:45:12 <gjs278> poclbm would constantly staying "Worker is idle, waiting" or something to that effect
375 2011-04-01 02:45:18 <gjs278> like the longpolling had gaps or something
376 2011-04-01 02:45:35 bitcoiner has joined
377 2011-04-01 02:47:03 <gjs278> "warning: job finished, miner is idle"
378 2011-04-01 02:47:04 <gjs278> that
379 2011-04-01 02:47:53 <[Tycho]> Never saw it :)
380 2011-04-01 02:48:11 <[Tycho]> When did you get it for the first time ?
381 2011-04-01 02:48:23 <gjs278> basically from the day I started until when you did whatever
382 2011-04-01 02:48:37 <gjs278> it would happen every 5 or so accepts
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394 2011-04-01 03:16:39 <Stellar> there is spam in the forum
395 2011-04-01 03:16:50 <Stellar> check xuyu8188
396 2011-04-01 03:17:23 Xunie` has joined
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401 2011-04-01 03:19:15 Mango-chan has joined
402 2011-04-01 03:20:03 <doublec> they could at least accept btc for the spam they're pushing
403 2011-04-01 03:21:04 <noagendamarket> lol
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413 2011-04-01 03:52:58 <jasonphd> jgarzik: to check a result, you double sha256 hash it... in your example it looks like you first trim the result to the first 160 characters, then do something i can't grasp, then you take that and double sha 256 it.... can you explain that middle step? the "bufreverse"?
414 2011-04-01 03:54:03 Sundial has joined
415 2011-04-01 03:55:32 <Sundial> Hello everyone. Two weeks into bitcoin research. I desire to add a single click button on website for folks to donate using bitcoins. Any links to a "how-to"?
416 2011-04-01 03:56:25 <noagendamarket> youtipit.org
417 2011-04-01 03:56:49 Minert has quit (Quit: Page closed)
418 2011-04-01 03:56:50 <Sundial> Thanks no agenda...
419 2011-04-01 03:59:50 <Sundial> Not quite what I had in mind. No need for a third party. Already have central banks for that. Thanks again.
420 2011-04-01 04:01:52 <da2ce7> ;;seen tcatm
421 2011-04-01 04:01:52 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <tcatm> Oh, I see. No idea why gavin didn't remove the label. Maybe it's really for compatibility.
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450 2011-04-01 05:59:01 <luke-jr> ;;later tell Sundial https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme
451 2011-04-01 05:59:02 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
452 2011-04-01 06:04:27 eao has joined
453 2011-04-01 06:09:38 <da2ce7> ;;seen xelister
454 2011-04-01 06:09:39 <gribble> xelister was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 hours, 39 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <xelister> it is in my tz <_<
455 2011-04-01 06:11:00 eao has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
456 2011-04-01 06:16:45 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r9b10ef284c0e spesmilo/cashier.py: Bugfix: Don't remember row numbers when there's a possibility of them changing http://tinyurl.com/3ttpdts
457 2011-04-01 06:17:30 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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459 2011-04-01 06:20:21 <jgarzik> ;;later tell Sundial You can ignore the 'tonal' related stuff on that wiki page
460 2011-04-01 06:20:21 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
461 2011-04-01 06:21:41 <gjs278> damn, I just crashed trying to open mplayer while mining :(
462 2011-04-01 06:23:21 eao has joined
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464 2011-04-01 06:26:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: there isn't any Tonal related stuff, except perhaps examples
465 2011-04-01 06:26:29 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
466 2011-04-01 06:26:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116087 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 840 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78746.29654755
467 2011-04-01 06:26:40 <midnightmagic> geh. brutal.
468 2011-04-01 06:26:48 <midnightmagic> up by 10k again huh
469 2011-04-01 06:27:02 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 78750
470 2011-04-01 06:27:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 78750, is 2 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes, and 14 seconds
471 2011-04-01 06:27:07 <luke-jr> :/
472 2011-04-01 06:28:50 gjs278 has joined
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477 2011-04-01 06:40:43 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, why complicate the uri scheme with exponents and hex?
478 2011-04-01 06:46:23 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
479 2011-04-01 06:52:38 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: just ignore the hex/exponents. js-remote doesn't parse them either :)
480 2011-04-01 06:53:37 FabianB_ has joined
481 2011-04-01 06:53:53 <phantomcircuit> heh
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497 2011-04-01 07:30:36 _flow_ has joined
498 2011-04-01 07:31:26 <_flow_> hi, i am looking for a tar.gz with the sources for 0.30.20.2 to build bitcoin from sources under linux
499 2011-04-01 07:31:43 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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501 2011-04-01 07:32:45 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: the releases with a fourth number arent new source builds
502 2011-04-01 07:32:53 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: they're usually only windows binary rereleases
503 2011-04-01 07:33:04 <Diablo-D3> so just use the normal 0.30.20 source
504 2011-04-01 07:34:07 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
505 2011-04-01 07:34:14 <_flow_> Diablo-D3: from here http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/ ?
506 2011-04-01 07:34:31 <Diablo-D3> probably, I cant open a browser atm
507 2011-04-01 07:35:12 <midnightmagic> _flow_ sourceforge is the official release thingie, but github is bleeding-edge. (seriously.. bleeding. in-progress merging and stuff, far as I can tell.)
508 2011-04-01 07:35:14 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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510 2011-04-01 07:35:37 <Diablo-D3> gavin's github is still his private repo
511 2011-04-01 07:35:38 <_flow_> i know, but i try to compose a gentoo ebuild with the newest releases of bitcoin
512 2011-04-01 07:35:51 <_flow_> so what i need is ideally a tar.gz
513 2011-04-01 07:35:51 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: get it off bitcoin then
514 2011-04-01 07:35:59 <Diablo-D3> and make sure you use db4.7
515 2011-04-01 07:36:07 <Diablo-D3> not 4.6 not 4.8 but only 4.7
516 2011-04-01 07:36:26 <doublec> _flow_: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/bitcoin-0.3.20.2-linux.tar.gz/download
517 2011-04-01 07:37:05 <jgarzik> http://skynet.kernel.org/ -- kernel.org's redundant infrastructure is now airborne
518 2011-04-01 07:37:21 <_flow_> why are the release numbers sometimes 0.3.20.2 and 0.3.20.02? i know that its a minor thing, but it's sometimes in the way
519 2011-04-01 07:38:09 <_flow_> Diablo-D3: seems like the old working ebuild is using db4.8: https://github.com/mizerydearia/bitcoin_gentoo_ebuild/blob/master/net-p2p/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19.ebuild
520 2011-04-01 07:38:23 <Diablo-D3> then its wrong
521 2011-04-01 07:38:28 <Diablo-D3> it needs to be only 4.7
522 2011-04-01 07:38:34 <doublec> what's wrong with db 4.8?
523 2011-04-01 07:38:45 <Diablo-D3> doublec: it automatically upgrades files
524 2011-04-01 07:38:48 <Diablo-D3> and they cant be read with 4.7
525 2011-04-01 07:39:05 <doublec> what's the issue with that?
526 2011-04-01 07:39:08 <_flow_> do you have a source that i can name in my ebuild commit about the db4.7 problem
527 2011-04-01 07:39:19 <Diablo-D3> doublec: all the official builds use 4.7
528 2011-04-01 07:39:25 <doublec> ah, ok
529 2011-04-01 07:39:31 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: either satoshi or the official bdb guys
530 2011-04-01 07:39:52 <doublec> _flow_: pretty sure the readme in the tar.gz says to use 4.7
531 2011-04-01 07:40:03 <_flow_> thanks, will have a look
532 2011-04-01 07:40:39 <doublec> _flow_: build-unix.txt says it
533 2011-04-01 07:40:50 <doublec> _flow_: "You need Berkeley DB 4.7. Don't use 4.8"
534 2011-04-01 07:44:36 <grbgout> _flow_: as a fellow gentooer, kudos on taking it upon yourself to make an ebuild (or update the existing one).
535 2011-04-01 07:45:10 <grbgout> How dated are the X line of Radeon cards?
536 2011-04-01 07:45:53 <_flow_> doublec: grbgout: thanks, but the main work is done on github, i am just trying to update the init.d script and to the new bitcoin version
537 2011-04-01 07:46:19 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: very
538 2011-04-01 07:46:27 <Diablo-D3> btw, X is literally just 10
539 2011-04-01 07:47:01 Mango-chan has joined
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542 2011-04-01 07:47:18 <Diablo-D3> so, 7000, 8500, 9600, x100 (=10100), x1000 (=11000), HD2000, (=12000), 3000(=13000), 4000, 5000, 6000
543 2011-04-01 07:47:20 <grbgout> So it's unlikely they would have any OpenCL support? I'm looking on wikipedia at the moment, but nothing is jumping out at me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#Processor_generations )
544 2011-04-01 07:47:25 <grbgout> Yeah, I got that.
545 2011-04-01 07:47:31 <Diablo-D3> you need 4000 and up.
546 2011-04-01 07:47:50 lfm has joined
547 2011-04-01 07:47:54 <grbgout> alright
548 2011-04-01 07:51:36 Zarutian has joined
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550 2011-04-01 08:01:44 <grbgout> Are any of you aware of decent GPU power comparison guides/lists? I looked on google the other day, and found a somewhat dated guide; I think it stopped with the 4k line of Radeons.
551 2011-04-01 08:02:03 ApertureScience has joined
552 2011-04-01 08:02:21 <gjs278> lookup mining hardware comparison on google
553 2011-04-01 08:02:28 <grbgout> gjs278: will do, thanks
554 2011-04-01 08:04:01 <grbgout> gjs278: I suppose you were wanting me to find the wiki page, correct?
555 2011-04-01 08:04:06 <gjs278> yes
556 2011-04-01 08:04:21 <grbgout> why not just say that, then? "There's one on the wiki already"
557 2011-04-01 08:04:37 <jgarzik> I never had any problem with any version of db4. I successfully used 4.7, 4.8 and (now, with Fedora 14) 5.0 with bitcoin. Zero problems.
558 2011-04-01 08:04:48 <jgarzik> all Linux, all custom builds.
559 2011-04-01 08:04:58 <grbgout> I was asking about a guide, thinking along the lines of tom's hardware, because I was interested in the techniques they used to obtain the data.
560 2011-04-01 08:05:51 <doublec> jgarzik: I think Diablo-D3 was concerned that someone using an ebuild bult with db 4.8 could not then use an official build using 4.7
561 2011-04-01 08:06:16 <doublec> (without deleting the db log files)
562 2011-04-01 08:06:51 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
563 2011-04-01 08:10:00 <gjs278> grbgout I figured that was the fastest way for us both to find it
564 2011-04-01 08:10:20 * grbgout chuckles
565 2011-04-01 08:10:26 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: its not a problem with compiling it
566 2011-04-01 08:10:33 <Diablo-D3> its that your files are worthless shit and unportable.
567 2011-04-01 08:10:36 <grbgout> gjs278: well, the wiki page is literally Mining_hardware_comparison , seems you already knew it ;)
568 2011-04-01 08:10:47 <grbgout> Admit it, it was a ruse to waste precious milliseconds!
569 2011-04-01 08:10:49 <Diablo-D3> you cant load a >4.7 file in 4.7
570 2011-04-01 08:11:10 <gjs278> I googled it probably 30 times in the last week
571 2011-04-01 08:11:34 <grbgout> I've seen it already as well. Pity my brain didn't recall.
572 2011-04-01 08:11:43 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: also, you're a freedom hating commie if you use 5.x
573 2011-04-01 08:11:50 <grbgout> I wonder what tools were used to collect the data.
574 2011-04-01 08:12:11 <grbgout> I've been meaning to go through this, http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/power-management-guide.xml , and setup the powertop tool
575 2011-04-01 08:12:22 <grbgout> I think powertop is mentioned in there...
576 2011-04-01 08:12:32 <grbgout> http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/
577 2011-04-01 08:13:32 wump has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
578 2011-04-01 08:13:58 wumpus has joined
579 2011-04-01 08:14:17 <grbgout> "aimbot" lol
580 2011-04-01 08:14:28 <gjs278> it's an aol instant messenger bot
581 2011-04-01 08:14:36 <grbgout> yeah, yeah ;)
582 2011-04-01 08:29:35 <Pander> does anyone have a rig that boots from USB memory and loads all partitions in RAM disk?
583 2011-04-01 08:30:00 <gjs278> that would be so slow
584 2011-04-01 08:30:03 <gjs278> the usb memory part
585 2011-04-01 08:30:20 <grbgout> Pander: no, but I was planning on trying to setup something like that using Tinycorelinux.com
586 2011-04-01 08:30:31 <gjs278> you can boot from a gparted livecd into ram
587 2011-04-01 08:30:33 <grbgout> Pander: ideally their microcore variant
588 2011-04-01 08:30:49 <gjs278> you can also just setup a netboot
589 2011-04-01 08:31:20 adlsaks has joined
590 2011-04-01 08:31:46 <comboy> Pander: I have
591 2011-04-01 08:32:09 <comboy> I hope to prepare it in some nicer form and publish just that the days are so short..
592 2011-04-01 08:33:34 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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596 2011-04-01 08:39:18 EvanR has joined
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598 2011-04-01 08:48:41 satamusic has joined
599 2011-04-01 08:49:38 alystair has joined
600 2011-04-01 08:54:31 <mizerydearia> WOOT OFF! http://woot.com/
601 2011-04-01 08:56:35 <mizerydearia> _flow_, You're welcome to fix the ebuild @ https://github.com/mizerydearia/bitcoin_gentoo_ebuild/blob/master/net-p2p/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19.ebuild
602 2011-04-01 08:57:02 <_flow_> mizerydearia: i allready added a new ebuild
603 2011-04-01 08:58:11 <mizerydearia> yay
604 2011-04-01 08:59:50 <_flow_> what does the community think about expanding the wiki with an page on how to intall bitcoin on the different linux distributions?
605 2011-04-01 09:01:08 <xelister> She take my money, well I'm in need
606 2011-04-01 09:01:09 <xelister> Yeah she's a triflin' friend indeed
607 2011-04-01 09:01:10 <xelister> Oh she's a gold digger way over time
608 2011-04-01 09:01:12 <xelister> That digs on me
609 2011-04-01 09:01:14 * xelister mined block
610 2011-04-01 09:01:57 <xelister> 2 time in 3 days with single 5970. Problem? :D
611 2011-04-01 09:02:22 <WakiMiko_> give me your coins im poor
612 2011-04-01 09:02:28 <xelister> >_>
613 2011-04-01 09:02:48 <xelister> you should be probably addressing ArtForz bitcoin multimilionare
614 2011-04-01 09:03:08 <WakiMiko_> ArtForz: ^
615 2011-04-01 09:03:57 <xelister> solo mining has it's advantages
616 2011-04-01 09:04:01 <WakiMiko_> 15kEJT4YWzDGTEdHoVd6qnRa5VjaPiTNPE i will be waiting
617 2011-04-01 09:04:07 <xelister> nothing like making up and reading miner report with block =)
618 2011-04-01 09:04:18 <xelister> uhh. Waking. Not making up lol
619 2011-04-01 09:04:24 <xelister> nothing like waking up and reading miner report with block =)
620 2011-04-01 09:04:42 <WakiMiko_> i will never know that feel ;_;
621 2011-04-01 09:04:48 <Pander> booting into RAM doesn't make it slow from which it is booting? so cdrom of urb is all the same. usb I have on the montherboard, cdrom not
622 2011-04-01 09:04:53 rli has joined
623 2011-04-01 09:07:31 <Pander> comboy: you have some pointers to get started? I'm planning to start out with a HD attached to set everythig up and later migrate that to usb.
624 2011-04-01 09:07:48 <gjs278> Pander it's slow because it has to read the image off of a usb interface, a disk would be much faster
625 2011-04-01 09:08:00 <gjs278> that's it though, once you get past startup it wont matter
626 2011-04-01 09:08:11 <gjs278> I had a 10gb image though so I would hate to wait for usb
627 2011-04-01 09:09:33 devon_hillard has joined
628 2011-04-01 09:09:35 <Pander> would only be slow to start up when later all is in ramfs, not?
629 2011-04-01 09:09:56 <Pander> I don't plan on rebooting a lot
630 2011-04-01 09:09:58 <gjs278> only startup
631 2011-04-01 09:12:35 sprash has joined
632 2011-04-01 09:12:47 <gjs278> http://www.stlinux.com/u-boot/mkimage/ramdisk-images
633 2011-04-01 09:13:07 <BurtyB> looks like bitcoinpool is down again :/
634 2011-04-01 09:13:17 <gjs278> that's if you want to use http://www.stlinux.com/u-boot as your manager
635 2011-04-01 09:15:27 DrQ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
636 2011-04-01 09:17:20 Xunie has joined
637 2011-04-01 09:19:32 <grbgout> BurtyB: >_<
638 2011-04-01 09:26:39 <comboy> Pander: it'actually fairly easy, just get ubuntu livedvd and boot it with persistence ,I have some openvpn for it and all desktopish stuff removed just X running to be able to access ati drivers
639 2011-04-01 09:29:27 <xelister> WakiMiko_: how you mine
640 2011-04-01 09:30:03 <WakiMiko_> i dont
641 2011-04-01 09:30:03 <WakiMiko_> my gpu sucks
642 2011-04-01 09:30:11 <WakiMiko_> (8800gts)
643 2011-04-01 09:30:13 <xelister> WakiMiko_: but a better one? =)
644 2011-04-01 09:30:23 rli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
645 2011-04-01 09:30:32 <WakiMiko_> but im pooor
646 2011-04-01 09:31:25 rli has joined
647 2011-04-01 09:32:42 slush has joined
648 2011-04-01 09:32:53 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
649 2011-04-01 09:35:58 <xelister> dont have 150$ ?
650 2011-04-01 09:37:17 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
651 2011-04-01 09:38:20 <WakiMiko_> what gpu can i get for that?
652 2011-04-01 09:39:32 synisma has quit (Quit: synisma)
653 2011-04-01 09:42:09 <grbgout> WakiMiko_: you can get a relatively decent mining GPU for not too much money. Obviously it depends on how much you are willing to part with, but a GPU with 400 SP can be had for ~$72.99
654 2011-04-01 09:42:41 <WakiMiko_> SP?
655 2011-04-01 09:42:53 <grbgout> That will get your roughly 78.25 Mhash/s
656 2011-04-01 09:43:08 <grbgout> Streaming Proccesors
657 2011-04-01 09:43:15 <WakiMiko_> i see
658 2011-04-01 09:43:25 <grbgout> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
659 2011-04-01 09:43:47 <grbgout> take a look at that, then start looking though pricewatch.com, ebay.com, newegg.com, etc. to see what you can find in your price range.
660 2011-04-01 09:44:34 <slush> gasteve: here
661 2011-04-01 09:45:09 <grbgout> Ideally you'll want a card that has a good balance between price-per-Mhash as well as Mhash-per-Watt
662 2011-04-01 09:46:44 nathan7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
663 2011-04-01 09:53:05 <mizerydearia> If anyone uses gentoo, feel free to join #bitcoin-gentoo
664 2011-04-01 09:56:47 <mizerydearia> and then feel free to part again after "wow"ing
665 2011-04-01 09:57:15 <dirtyfilthy> the secret to gentoo is cutting the springs and putting a cardboard spoiler on your case
666 2011-04-01 09:57:31 <mizerydearia> I'm not sure what that means
667 2011-04-01 09:57:47 <sipa> sorry, still compiling
668 2011-04-01 09:57:52 <dirtyfilthy> haha
669 2011-04-01 09:58:22 <sipa> (j/k by the way, i've been a happy gentoo user for some years)
670 2011-04-01 09:58:27 <mizerydearia> I'll write an ebuild for it
671 2011-04-01 09:58:39 <dirtyfilthy> mizerydearia: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ricer
672 2011-04-01 09:58:40 * BurtyB was a happy gentoo user then my requirements changed :)
673 2011-04-01 09:59:21 * mizerydearia wonders if the dependencies changed too
674 2011-04-01 10:00:02 <grbgout> mizerydearia: _flow_ was just in here talking about fixing the existing ebuild.
675 2011-04-01 10:00:15 <grbgout> mizerydearia: what do you mean "wow"ing?
676 2011-04-01 10:00:17 <mizerydearia> grbgout, yeah, he's in the chan also and pmed me
677 2011-04-01 10:00:25 <mizerydearia> grbgout, MT should know ^_^
678 2011-04-01 10:00:49 <mizerydearia> I imagine about how tiny the chan is or something
679 2011-04-01 10:01:03 * grbgout nods
680 2011-04-01 10:01:03 <bonsaikitten> BurtyB: did it hurt? ;)
681 2011-04-01 10:01:48 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r37e9d3aa4e72 intersango/cron/bankd/ (import_csv.php parse_deposits.php): Importer + parser of bank statements in CSV format. http://tinyurl.com/3bx92q9
682 2011-04-01 10:01:51 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r4cec5181ca2a intersango/DATABASE: regenerated database for new bank_statement table. http://tinyurl.com/3jmoqr3
683 2011-04-01 10:01:54 adlsaks has joined
684 2011-04-01 10:04:24 <BurtyB> bonsaikitten no a quick reinstall was all that was needed, no complicated touch && cut required
685 2011-04-01 10:05:18 m00p has joined
686 2011-04-01 10:11:44 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rb600d0a4eaf7 intersango/DATABASE: Regenerated DATABASE for new bank_statement table. http://tinyurl.com/3kgw43e
687 2011-04-01 10:11:44 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rf8d2207019c3 intersango/DATABASE: Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:intersango/master http://tinyurl.com/3j7hzsw
688 2011-04-01 10:12:03 Lartza has joined
689 2011-04-01 10:12:04 Lartza has quit (Changing host)
690 2011-04-01 10:12:04 Lartza has joined
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692 2011-04-01 10:19:38 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
693 2011-04-01 10:24:26 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
694 2011-04-01 10:24:54 satamusic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
695 2011-04-01 10:26:48 joepie92 has joined
696 2011-04-01 10:27:13 TD has joined
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698 2011-04-01 10:30:30 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
699 2011-04-01 10:35:33 <genjix> MacRohard: hey
700 2011-04-01 10:35:41 <genjix> check PM
701 2011-04-01 10:36:38 TheAncientGoat has joined
702 2011-04-01 10:36:44 <WakiMiko_> http://www.debian.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/ http://www.archlinux.org/ he :D
703 2011-04-01 10:48:28 noagendamarket has joined
704 2011-04-01 10:54:08 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
705 2011-04-01 10:54:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116112 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 815 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78362.67990074
706 2011-04-01 10:54:18 <JFK911> lol
707 2011-04-01 10:54:23 <JFK911> i knew it was going to shoot back up again
708 2011-04-01 11:04:24 <midnightmagic> how did you know?
709 2011-04-01 11:04:52 <[Tycho]> I wonder if they really experienced DDoS or not :)
710 2011-04-01 11:09:01 KBme has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
711 2011-04-01 11:10:03 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
712 2011-04-01 11:12:25 <noagendamarket> I think someone is trolling the difficulty and trying to setup a situation where there are easy and hard mining periods...
713 2011-04-01 11:12:54 <noagendamarket> I guess we will fin d out
714 2011-04-01 11:13:42 <Blitzboom> if they price would make some bigger jumps, that would be no problem
715 2011-04-01 11:13:51 KBme has joined
716 2011-04-01 11:16:19 <JFK911> noagendamarket: i agree
717 2011-04-01 11:16:37 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
718 2011-04-01 11:16:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8,"low":0.7753,"vol":4015,"buy":0.7754,"sell":0.7915,"last":0.7753}}
719 2011-04-01 11:16:44 <JFK911> hm 0.8
720 2011-04-01 11:16:52 <JFK911> hasnt really gone far above that in a while has it
721 2011-04-01 11:17:09 <Blitzboom> no, itâs been pretty stable for a while now
722 2011-04-01 11:17:30 <Blitzboom> i suspect a breakthrough sometime soon though
723 2011-04-01 11:20:23 Jr00t has joined
724 2011-04-01 11:24:40 <genjix> tcatm: did you see the links I gave you yesterday?
725 2011-04-01 11:25:02 <genjix> oh sweet i see it on there :p
726 2011-04-01 11:25:31 <genjix> jgarzik: http://bitcoinwatch.com/ <- you want to add GBP? I've completed the API
727 2011-04-01 11:30:22 <dbitcoin> ;;bc, calc 2000000
728 2011-04-01 11:30:23 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
729 2011-04-01 11:30:34 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,calc 2000000
730 2011-04-01 11:30:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 day, 17 hours, 8 minutes, and 51 seconds
731 2011-04-01 11:31:22 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stat
732 2011-04-01 11:31:23 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
733 2011-04-01 11:31:39 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,help
734 2011-04-01 11:31:40 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
735 2011-04-01 11:32:08 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
736 2011-04-01 11:32:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116115 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 812 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78305.53092182
737 2011-04-01 11:32:27 <tcatm> genjix: added :) (I run bcw now)
738 2011-04-01 11:32:36 <genjix> oh cool
739 2011-04-01 11:32:39 <genjix> nice
740 2011-04-01 11:32:56 <tcatm> actually the update script hang again so it wasn't updated :/
741 2011-04-01 11:33:13 <genjix> no worries. just making sure you knew.
742 2011-04-01 11:35:13 <tcatm> I've ported the backend from perl to python-django and sometimes I wouldn't update
743 2011-04-01 11:36:27 <genjix> ok, so now i know that I don't want to try django
744 2011-04-01 11:36:46 <tcatm> why?
745 2011-04-01 11:37:10 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
746 2011-04-01 11:37:44 <genjix> frameworks seem to restrictive and shoehorn you into their way of thinking.
747 2011-04-01 11:38:24 <tcatm> it's rock solid. I was doing something uncommon and got unicode/utf-8 handling wrong so it throw an exception I didn't see (a cronjob updates bcw and I disabled cron emails)
748 2011-04-01 11:38:29 <genjix> i.e build a model, then build the site (view) around that. I build sites starting from the view, then add controllers and the models come last...
749 2011-04-01 11:38:47 <tcatm> You can do that with django.
750 2011-04-01 11:39:07 <genjix> yeah but php gives more freedom for expression.
751 2011-04-01 11:39:32 <ersi> That's good and very bad sometimes.
752 2011-04-01 11:39:38 DrWhax_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
753 2011-04-01 11:39:42 <ersi> Depending on how much freedom you use
754 2011-04-01 11:40:05 <dirtyfilthy> god i hate php
755 2011-04-01 11:40:12 <dirtyfilthy> that is some ugly shit
756 2011-04-01 11:40:20 <tcatm> PHP is a little bit too much freedom and most PHP programmers have bad habits.
757 2011-04-01 11:40:25 <dirtyfilthy> i used to do it for a living
758 2011-04-01 11:40:58 <xelister> in php you are free to write shit scripts that easly and feastly grant xss access to all hackers
759 2011-04-01 11:41:07 <genjix> :) i would prefer python, but it seems php is better for webdev
760 2011-04-01 11:41:10 <dirtyfilthy> the syntax alone made me want to scrape out my own eyeballs with a teaspoon
761 2011-04-01 11:41:47 <genjix> you mean C syntax?
762 2011-04-01 11:41:56 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
763 2011-04-01 11:42:15 <xelister> dirtyfilthy: still better then visual basic :P
764 2011-04-01 11:42:23 <dirtyfilthy> hey, i like c, c require disripine, oo on php is hopelessly broken
765 2011-04-01 11:42:47 <genjix> oh i don't use oo in php
766 2011-04-01 11:42:54 <genjix> not worth it for websites
767 2011-04-01 11:43:19 <xelister> genjix: wrong
768 2011-04-01 11:43:31 <xelister> well, at least for portals
769 2011-04-01 11:43:34 <genjix> well we all have our preferences :)
770 2011-04-01 11:43:36 <dirtyfilthy> eh i'm a ruby web-dev and decent oo gives me serious wood
771 2011-04-01 11:43:40 <xelister> its not a matter of preference
772 2011-04-01 11:43:56 <xelister> it is brain dead to not use OO in php when coding a complex portal
773 2011-04-01 11:44:20 <genjix> never coded one. but for my exchange it's not needed.
774 2011-04-01 11:44:25 <genjix> you have some pages which display shit
775 2011-04-01 11:44:32 <genjix> the 'stuff' is in mysql
776 2011-04-01 11:44:36 <xelister> genjix: bullshit
777 2011-04-01 11:44:37 <genjix> so OO isn't needed.
778 2011-04-01 11:44:52 <xelister> technically, you can build a house from matches
779 2011-04-01 11:45:03 <xelister> in practice, you really want to use concrete, stones, metals, etc
780 2011-04-01 11:45:46 <xelister> non-OO, low-level basic php, would take x2 - x5 longer to create a serious web portal in
781 2011-04-01 11:45:53 <genjix> OO is good for applications where you have modules, widgets, objects .etc
782 2011-04-01 11:46:09 <xelister> all of thoes are present in serious portals
783 2011-04-01 11:46:12 <genjix> ok as I said... I haven't coded a portal. I'm referring to my exchange.
784 2011-04-01 11:46:20 <xelister> I did
785 2011-04-01 11:46:26 DrWhax_ has joined
786 2011-04-01 11:47:04 <xelister> genjix: no one sane will choose/agree to code a big portal without OO
787 2011-04-01 11:47:05 <xelister> :)
788 2011-04-01 11:47:37 Avemo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
789 2011-04-01 11:47:39 <genjix> it has data 'model' in MySQL, pages display 'view' that data. and when a user clicks buttons then it calls methods which actuate on the data 'controller'
790 2011-04-01 11:47:54 <xelister> and data controller is in what, php of course?
791 2011-04-01 11:48:01 <xelister> since we are talking about a php website
792 2011-04-01 11:48:15 <genjix> if i use oo then i'm re-engineering http
793 2011-04-01 11:48:28 <xelister> you are making no sense.
794 2011-04-01 11:48:34 <xelister> are we talking about same "oo" ?
795 2011-04-01 11:49:06 <genjix> im talking about classes. i dont use them.
796 2011-04-01 11:49:12 <genjix> (in PHP)
797 2011-04-01 11:49:22 <genjix> but I rely on them heavily in C++
798 2011-04-01 11:49:29 <xelister> using object oriented programming in the php code is re-engeenering http???????????????? this makes no sense what so ever :O are you stoned O_o
799 2011-04-01 11:49:38 <genjix> different tools for different jobs
800 2011-04-01 11:49:54 <genjix> re-engineering the web protocol
801 2011-04-01 11:49:59 <xelister> what has HTTP protocol to do with server-side scripting language and what paradigms it uses internally???????????
802 2011-04-01 11:50:04 <JFK911> lets get stoned
803 2011-04-01 11:50:08 <genjix> each webpage = an object
804 2011-04-01 11:50:22 <genjix> each action that a webpage accepts = class method
805 2011-04-01 11:50:35 <xelister> genjix: see, a class is already OO
806 2011-04-01 11:50:54 <genjix> nvm
807 2011-04-01 11:51:25 <xelister> you would like to NOT do that, and instead write each page like say add_friend.php and url portal.com/add_friend.php?id=125&tag=591232 ?? :D :D
808 2011-04-01 11:51:34 <xelister> lol did that. Ha that is so 2005's.
809 2011-04-01 11:51:52 <xelister> scratch that
810 2011-04-01 11:51:56 <xelister> lol did that. Ha that is so 2001's.
811 2011-04-01 11:52:10 <xelister> Seriously, using such approach today, GUARANTEES totall FAILURE of such project, I can bet 500 btc on that.
812 2011-04-01 11:52:28 <genjix> portal.com/friends/add/ <- yes
813 2011-04-01 11:52:50 <genjix> and you POST your data to that
814 2011-04-01 11:52:59 <Diablo-D3> did someone say portal?
815 2011-04-01 11:53:22 <Diablo-D3> that doesnt look like a triumph to me :<
816 2011-04-01 11:53:28 <xelister> portal.com/friends/add/ can mean as well that server-side php is using, or not using, object oriented classes to realize the functions under this url
817 2011-04-01 11:55:49 <genjix> tcatm: it's not showing the correct prices https://britcoin.co.uk/api/ticker.php
818 2011-04-01 11:55:51 <Stellar> i wonder why php team need to take 1 week to bring back the wiki.php.net and another clueless for pecl2.php.net
819 2011-04-01 11:56:13 <Stellar> pecl2 is mostly directory listing lol
820 2011-04-01 11:56:43 curiositysquared has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
821 2011-04-01 11:56:49 <genjix> tcatm: 0.5882 0.25 0.58 16.00 <- should say 0.58 0.6 0.58 ...
822 2011-04-01 11:57:21 <genjix> also bitcoinwatch is missing the GBP text like "1 Russian ruble is worth 0.04 BTC"
823 2011-04-01 12:03:54 <tcatm> genjix: nope. your lowest ask is 0.25
824 2011-04-01 12:04:42 <tcatm> https://britcoin.co.uk/api/getDepth.php [0.2500, 0]
825 2011-04-01 12:04:43 <genjix> must be a mistake on my side then.
826 2011-04-01 12:04:52 <genjix> I'll fix that.
827 2011-04-01 12:05:24 <genjix> ohh, it's showing orders that are completed also... sorry.
828 2011-04-01 12:06:26 <genjix> ok fixed
829 2011-04-01 12:06:29 <tcatm> I'll add the "1 GBP is worth x BTC" once britcoin has a little more volume.
830 2011-04-01 12:06:35 <genjix> ok
831 2011-04-01 12:06:58 <tcatm> Hm. I could automate that.
832 2011-04-01 12:07:32 <tcatm> getDepth still returns 0.2500,0 0
833 2011-04-01 12:07:49 <genjix> ok i fixed it.
834 2011-04-01 12:07:54 <Pander> guys, last week I filed a request at Unicode Consortium to assign a Unicode to the bitcoin currency sign
835 2011-04-01 12:08:33 eqxogcgxf has joined
836 2011-04-01 12:08:33 m00p has joined
837 2011-04-01 12:08:35 <Blitzboom> which sign?
838 2011-04-01 12:08:37 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
839 2011-04-01 12:08:38 vxwtkxlaz has joined
840 2011-04-01 12:08:38 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
841 2011-04-01 12:08:40 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
842 2011-04-01 12:08:40 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
843 2011-04-01 12:08:42 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
844 2011-04-01 12:08:42 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
845 2011-04-01 12:08:44 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
846 2011-04-01 12:08:44 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
847 2011-04-01 12:08:47 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
848 2011-04-01 12:08:47 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
849 2011-04-01 12:08:48 <Blitzboom> sirius-m, please
850 2011-04-01 12:08:49 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
851 2011-04-01 12:08:49 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
852 2011-04-01 12:08:49 eqxogcgxf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
853 2011-04-01 12:08:49 vxwtkxlaz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
854 2011-04-01 12:08:56 <WakiMiko_> -_-
855 2011-04-01 12:08:58 <genjix> tcatm: i have more volume than the RUB exchange ;)
856 2011-04-01 12:09:10 <Blitzboom> Pander: which sign exactly?
857 2011-04-01 12:09:45 <tcatm> genjix: yep. I'd like to hide RUB and GAU, too
858 2011-04-01 12:10:16 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
859 2011-04-01 12:10:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116124 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 803 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78607.93528195
860 2011-04-01 12:10:18 <tcatm> getTrades does not show the same lasttrade as ticker.php
861 2011-04-01 12:11:25 <genjix> let me look
862 2011-04-01 12:12:10 Guest43573 is now known as sneak
863 2011-04-01 12:12:16 sneak has quit (Changing host)
864 2011-04-01 12:12:16 sneak has joined
865 2011-04-01 12:13:01 slothbag has quit ()
866 2011-04-01 12:13:03 <genjix> tcatm: yep that's because several trades were done at the same time.
867 2011-04-01 12:14:01 <tcatm> k
868 2011-04-01 12:14:24 <tcatm> wait. why don't they show in getTrades?
869 2011-04-01 12:16:07 <genjix> its show also orders that are still open
870 2011-04-01 12:16:16 <genjix> so i need to fix that actually...
871 2011-04-01 12:16:38 <tcatm> Does that mean I have to drop values from my database?
872 2011-04-01 12:16:47 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r82fdc825755c intersango/www/api/getDepth.php: only show open orders. http://tinyurl.com/3jxb48f
873 2011-04-01 12:16:49 <genjix> no, i should be doing it correctly.
874 2011-04-01 12:17:01 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
875 2011-04-01 12:17:09 <genjix> i just was unsure exactly how the mtgox api works
876 2011-04-01 12:17:13 <tcatm> bitcoincharts assumes data it fetched from getTrades once will never change...
877 2011-04-01 12:17:22 <genjix> ok
878 2011-04-01 12:17:36 <da2ce7> genjix, tcatm, good work in having it up on bitcoincharts!
879 2011-04-01 12:17:42 <genjix> yeah getTrades shows completed orders in last 24 hours
880 2011-04-01 12:18:24 <genjix> getDepth shows trades that are open in last 24 hours
881 2011-04-01 12:18:47 <genjix> ticket (should) show for lastest: the last *completed* trade.
882 2011-04-01 12:18:52 <genjix> r
883 2011-04-01 12:19:04 <genjix> thanks da2ce7 ^^
884 2011-04-01 12:19:52 <tcatm> shouldn't getDepth show the complete orderbook?
885 2011-04-01 12:20:05 <genjix> ok i will make it like that then.
886 2011-04-01 12:20:14 Avemo has joined
887 2011-04-01 12:20:22 <mizerydearia> http://meta.witcoin.com/p/909/win-five-witcoins
888 2011-04-01 12:22:52 <genjix> volume shows the total bitcoin amount available, right?
889 2011-04-01 12:22:56 <genjix> not GBP
890 2011-04-01 12:24:02 <idnar> haha
891 2011-04-01 12:24:29 <tcatm> yep, volume is in bitcoin
892 2011-04-01 12:24:33 <genjix> k
893 2011-04-01 12:24:35 <da2ce7> britcoin has the 2nd deepest market
894 2011-04-01 12:26:05 tower has joined
895 2011-04-01 12:29:55 <genjix> 1042 btc + 80 GBP? don't think so...
896 2011-04-01 12:30:53 TD has joined
897 2011-04-01 12:31:10 <xelister> <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
898 2011-04-01 12:31:25 <xelister> damn trolls. HOW WOULD THAT EVEN BE POSSIBLE :-E
899 2011-04-01 12:31:33 <xelister> I demand better trolls
900 2011-04-01 12:31:38 <xelister> luke-jr: wazup
901 2011-04-01 12:45:19 * genjix loves seeing people on the britcoin exchange edge towards an equilibrium value
902 2011-04-01 12:45:46 <genjix> it's like each side keeps trying to bluff each other into offering better prices.
903 2011-04-01 12:46:18 <genjix> offering 1 BTC or 1 GBP taster amounts, whereas the majority volume lies at higher prices.
904 2011-04-01 12:46:50 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r5173b57f4d1b intersango/www/api/ticker.php: fixed ticker to show only completed transactions for last. http://tinyurl.com/3qzxe9m
905 2011-04-01 12:51:06 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
906 2011-04-01 12:53:25 BitterTe1 has joined
907 2011-04-01 12:54:31 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
908 2011-04-01 12:55:42 <mizerydearia> Does anyone not have any bitcoins or only 0.05 from faucet and otherwise very little bitcoins or maybe new to Bitcoin?
909 2011-04-01 12:55:50 BitterTea has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
910 2011-04-01 12:57:54 <theorbtwo> Hmm. My rpcminer is failing to talk to mining.bitcoin.cz.
911 2011-04-01 12:58:50 <Validus> try to login on the website
912 2011-04-01 12:59:10 <Validus> at least it should show if its your miner or the site is down
913 2011-04-01 13:00:11 <theorbtwo> Well, I'm already logged in, and I don't see a logout button.
914 2011-04-01 13:00:50 <theorbtwo> Worse, possibly, the site's statistics don't seem to say that it's down.
915 2011-04-01 13:01:04 <Validus> then double check your miner settings
916 2011-04-01 13:04:28 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, Hiya. Are you around?
917 2011-04-01 13:05:25 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, noagendamarket ordered service from you for AutoVPS.com for a VPS account. He paid for three months and then less than twenty-four hours per my suggestion, he cancelled service...or at least tried to.
918 2011-04-01 13:05:52 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, I am uncertain as to your response, but from what I heard from noagendamarket it appears that you are unwilling or unable to provide a refund or to terminate the service account. Is this true?
919 2011-04-01 13:06:35 <genjix> dude maybe you could PM him
920 2011-04-01 13:06:49 <genjix> instead of making libelous accusations in publix
921 2011-04-01 13:06:51 <genjix> c
922 2011-04-01 13:06:51 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r0fc5b3855436 intersango/ (cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php withdraw.php): Revert "Truncate entered withdrawal values to 2 decimal places." http://tinyurl.com/3plfxhb
923 2011-04-01 13:06:52 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r1f1a49544cfd intersango/withdraw.php: Truncate decimals withdr http://tinyurl.com/424f2v2
924 2011-04-01 13:06:52 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
925 2011-04-01 13:06:54 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rfb250085f528 intersango/www/api/getTrades.php: limit trades to last 24hours. http://tinyurl.com/42pmcyq
926 2011-04-01 13:06:56 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r5402dae5a5a8 intersango/cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php: Truncate 2 places in cr/verif_btc Revert "Truncate entered withdrawal values to 2 decimal places." http://tinyurl.com/3u6pa2g
927 2011-04-01 13:07:11 <mizerydearia> genjix, libelous?
928 2011-04-01 13:07:14 elliott has joined
929 2011-04-01 13:07:19 <noagendamarket> genjix its not libel if its true.
930 2011-04-01 13:07:33 molecular has joined
931 2011-04-01 13:07:34 <genjix> i dont know the whole story.
932 2011-04-01 13:07:35 skreuzer has joined
933 2011-04-01 13:07:40 <noagendamarket> Im not posting about it because i am too pissed off
934 2011-04-01 13:07:47 * mizerydearia is curious as to which particular statement of the three lines above from me are libelous in any amount.
935 2011-04-01 13:07:52 <elliott> Is a source tarball of the latest bitcoin release available? I can't find one. I can use SVN if there isn't.
936 2011-04-01 13:08:15 <genjix> elliott: it's in the binary tarballs
937 2011-04-01 13:08:17 <genjix> under src/
938 2011-04-01 13:08:28 <elliott> Ah, thanks :)
939 2011-04-01 13:08:37 <mizerydearia> s/in any amount/to any extent/
940 2011-04-01 13:08:49 <noagendamarket> People need to know they wont get their money back when using the service.
941 2011-04-01 13:08:54 <noagendamarket> that is all
942 2011-04-01 13:08:56 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, that's libelous
943 2011-04-01 13:09:11 <genjix> maybe it's a misunderstanding :)
944 2011-04-01 13:09:12 <theorbtwo> Oh, hell. -url http://bitcoin.mining.cz:8332 vs -url=http://bitcoin.mining.cz:8332
945 2011-04-01 13:09:21 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, Don't make unfalse accusatory statements.
946 2011-04-01 13:09:35 <noagendamarket> lol
947 2011-04-01 13:09:42 <mizerydearia> Just because you didn't get your money back (yet or ever) doesn't mean everyone will not get their money back
948 2011-04-01 13:09:53 <elliott> >_< the bitcoin makefile assumes wx is in /usr/local...
949 2011-04-01 13:09:53 TD has joined
950 2011-04-01 13:09:54 <noagendamarket> well its in the tos
951 2011-04-01 13:09:57 <elliott> is wx 2.9 required or does 2.8 work?
952 2011-04-01 13:10:08 <sipa> you need 2.9
953 2011-04-01 13:10:25 <elliott> argh
954 2011-04-01 13:10:26 <mizerydearia> hmm http://legal.tibanne.com/Tibanne_ToS_20100131.html
955 2011-04-01 13:10:35 * mizerydearia downloads a copy in case it gets changed
956 2011-04-01 13:10:47 <elliott> i'll just use the binary :)
957 2011-04-01 13:11:10 <mizerydearia> "In case of termination of the Domains either through the customer himself or a Domain disputes decision, the customer has no claim for a substitute domain or a refund. Should the Domain be terminated prematurely, then no refunding will take place, if the termination was not caused deliberately or grossly negligently through Tibanne Co. Ltd.. This applies likewise to other performances or additionally booked options."
958 2011-04-01 13:11:28 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, You have no claim for a refund
959 2011-04-01 13:12:15 <mizerydearia> Basically, lesson to be learned here, is never order service before reading terms of service
960 2011-04-01 13:12:22 <grbgout> "unfalse" ^_^
961 2011-04-01 13:12:34 <mizerydearia> grbgout, unfalse?
962 2011-04-01 13:12:41 <grbgout> mizerydearia: your word, not mine.
963 2011-04-01 13:12:42 <mizerydearia> "The payment for a service and other fees are not refundable in case of a premature termination of contract."
964 2011-04-01 13:12:51 <mizerydearia> lawl
965 2011-04-01 13:13:01 <mizerydearia> s/unfalse/false/
966 2011-04-01 13:13:05 <grbgout> ^_^
967 2011-04-01 13:13:06 <mizerydearia> or untrue
968 2011-04-01 13:13:07 <mizerydearia> meh
969 2011-04-01 13:13:24 <grbgout> How dare you make unfalse statements about how beutiful I am!
970 2011-04-01 13:13:32 <mizerydearia> ^_^
971 2011-04-01 13:13:37 <grbgout> *beautiful
972 2011-04-01 13:13:38 <mizerydearia> only 21,000 results for unfalse @ google
973 2011-04-01 13:13:49 elliott has left ("Leaving")
974 2011-04-01 13:13:53 <mizerydearia> woo http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unfalse
975 2011-04-01 13:14:07 <noagendamarket> Its good to know you can take someones word for things
976 2011-04-01 13:14:13 <mizerydearia> "The payments for services is also not refundable in case of disruptions in the service due to force majeure or other causes outside the realm of Tibanne Co. Ltd. responsibilities."
977 2011-04-01 13:14:43 <noagendamarket> So people will get no refund at all
978 2011-04-01 13:14:47 <noagendamarket> is not libel
979 2011-04-01 13:14:52 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, I apologize if I had caused or influenced you to order service and then to later suggest to not have ordered or to not preserve the service account.
980 2011-04-01 13:15:17 <mizerydearia> o_X
981 2011-04-01 13:15:23 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: Leaving)
982 2011-04-01 13:15:30 <mizerydearia> =/
983 2011-04-01 13:15:35 <genjix> i'll take that vps off you if you wish :)
984 2011-04-01 13:15:51 <grbgout> mizerydearia: clearly he couldn't handle the unfalseness of your statements.
985 2011-04-01 13:15:55 <mizerydearia> heh
986 2011-04-01 13:16:32 <mizerydearia> ugh, wtf is going on?
987 2011-04-01 13:17:01 <mizerydearia> it appears noagendamarket is mad at me, but I did not intend to piss him off, however, I guess I did by indicating such things as the terms of service clearly stating no refund.
988 2011-04-01 13:17:19 <Pander> Blitzboom the B with two vertical bars
989 2011-04-01 13:17:20 <mizerydearia> meh, maybe he's just stressed out
990 2011-04-01 13:17:29 <mizerydearia> he's been having way too much stress lately
991 2011-04-01 13:17:38 <genjix> i think he got disconnected
992 2011-04-01 13:17:42 <mizerydearia> nah
993 2011-04-01 13:17:42 <genjix> don't worry.
994 2011-04-01 13:17:44 <mizerydearia> he quit
995 2011-04-01 13:17:52 <mizerydearia> and from google account also
996 2011-04-01 13:17:55 <Blitzboom> cool, Pander. keep us updadet. got a picture of that?
997 2011-04-01 13:18:02 <Blitzboom> updated*
998 2011-04-01 13:18:09 <mizerydearia> it's late for him too
999 2011-04-01 13:18:14 <mizerydearia> 1am in Australia
1000 2011-04-01 13:19:08 <mizerydearia> I think I will compensate him for his loss as a kind of gesture or something
1001 2011-04-01 13:19:19 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1002 2011-04-01 13:19:22 <genjix> by opening the witcoin sourcecode?
1003 2011-04-01 13:19:25 <genjix> good idea
1004 2011-04-01 13:19:28 <mizerydearia> no
1005 2011-04-01 13:19:39 <mizerydearia> that has no compensatory affect on him whatsoever
1006 2011-04-01 13:19:49 <Pander> I reconstructed the thai bath a bit for the proposal. request has to go through five stages
1007 2011-04-01 13:20:18 <Pander> the character for unicode consortium is only reference implementation, all fonts need to provide one of their own
1008 2011-04-01 13:21:12 <mizerydearia> genjix, in your opinion, what benefit will there be for witcoin to be open sourced with also considering a supposed lack of interest for others to contribute towards the development of witcoin.com?
1009 2011-04-01 13:21:20 <mizerydearia> At least now rather than later
1010 2011-04-01 13:21:45 <genjix> i got 6 security bug fixes from people's suggestions.
1011 2011-04-01 13:22:17 <genjix> and also it's nice to be sharing. you don't lose any benefit by doing that.
1012 2011-04-01 13:22:25 <mizerydearia> I do agree that open source is better than closed source to establish more perfected code.
1013 2011-04-01 13:22:26 <genjix> you can only gain.
1014 2011-04-01 13:22:44 <mizerydearia> In terms of overal established source code, yes
1015 2011-04-01 13:22:52 <mizerydearia> in terms of established community I am not so sure
1016 2011-04-01 13:23:10 <genjix> i guess the reason why all my stuff is open sourced is because im nice and to establish trust also.
1017 2011-04-01 13:23:22 <mizerydearia> that makes sense
1018 2011-04-01 13:23:34 <mizerydearia> genjix, May I ask what in particular are your projects? e.g. a simple list?
1019 2011-04-01 13:24:18 <genjix> http://github.com/genjix https://gitorious.org/~genjix http://sourceforge.net/users/genjix
1020 2011-04-01 13:24:45 skeledrew has joined
1021 2011-04-01 13:26:23 <mizerydearia> genjix, hmm, other than donations, do you establish any profits from any of those products or services?
1022 2011-04-01 13:26:37 <mizerydearia> e.g. poker
1023 2011-04-01 13:26:40 <genjix> No. And I don't get donations either.
1024 2011-04-01 13:26:44 <mizerydearia> hmm
1025 2011-04-01 13:27:36 <mizerydearia> genjix, I imagine you manage supporting yourself through means unrelated to bitcoin perhaps?
1026 2011-04-01 13:27:49 <genjix> yeah online poker
1027 2011-04-01 13:27:52 <mizerydearia> ^_^
1028 2011-04-01 13:28:23 <mizerydearia> that's cool.
1029 2011-04-01 13:28:26 <mizerydearia> I can't say the same.
1030 2011-04-01 13:28:31 rlifchitz has joined
1031 2011-04-01 13:28:41 <Blitzboom> by playing poker or by running one?
1032 2011-04-01 13:28:43 <genjix> playing.
1033 2011-04-01 13:28:44 <mizerydearia> And I think that is a primary reason that is holding me back or causing me to be afraid.
1034 2011-04-01 13:29:09 <mizerydearia> fear of failure or being unable to survive or succeed
1035 2011-04-01 13:30:07 <ersi> If you don't feel like going open source, don't.
1036 2011-04-01 13:30:24 <genjix> if you're hoping to live off bitcoins that's a bad idea
1037 2011-04-01 13:30:25 <mizerydearia> ersi, Ever since I began working on the site in January I had intended on open sourcing the code base at some point.
1038 2011-04-01 13:30:27 <genjix> very risky.
1039 2011-04-01 13:30:47 <grbgout> Agreed, bitcoins are too high risk at the moment.
1040 2011-04-01 13:30:58 Byte75 has joined
1041 2011-04-01 13:31:05 <ersi> Yeah, but do it in your own pace - if you feel like doing it, you should - sometime. :)
1042 2011-04-01 13:31:12 * mizerydearia agrees
1043 2011-04-01 13:31:34 <mizerydearia> However even in witcoin channel, there has been a regularly constant effort for discussion towards open sourcing
1044 2011-04-01 13:31:45 <ersi> Some might feel better if it does say that somewhere on the site
1045 2011-04-01 13:31:48 <mizerydearia> Even though I tend to repeat the same responses it seems constant
1046 2011-04-01 13:32:02 <mizerydearia> from the same people ^_^
1047 2011-04-01 13:32:24 <mizerydearia> I think maybe I am being tested
1048 2011-04-01 13:32:33 <mizerydearia> to see when my response will change so as to detect lying or something
1049 2011-04-01 13:32:47 <ersi> Quite possible
1050 2011-04-01 13:32:49 <x6763> some people behave as though open source is their religion
1051 2011-04-01 13:33:15 <mizerydearia> that makes sense
1052 2011-04-01 13:33:22 <mizerydearia> it is very easy to be obsessed with ideas
1053 2011-04-01 13:33:28 <mizerydearia> ideas are infectious if not used in moderation
1054 2011-04-01 13:33:54 <mizerydearia> I think that is the basis for cults to exist and thrive
1055 2011-04-01 13:34:09 <Blitzboom> well, isnât bitcoin the same thing?
1056 2011-04-01 13:34:13 <Blitzboom> an idea
1057 2011-04-01 13:34:18 <mizerydearia> Bitcoin cult ^_^
1058 2011-04-01 13:34:28 <x6763> lol
1059 2011-04-01 13:34:47 <mizerydearia> I can see the headlines now...
1060 2011-04-01 13:35:23 <mizerydearia> there's "leader of anonymous" and then maybe leader of bitcoin cult
1061 2011-04-01 13:36:27 <mizerydearia> But does anyone know about leader of Serco? the largest business-related cult in existence
1062 2011-04-01 13:36:39 <mizerydearia> business/religious-cult
1063 2011-04-01 13:37:23 <mizerydearia> oh, btw, does anyone want five bitcoins?
1064 2011-04-01 13:37:55 <mizerydearia> see forum in discussion board for details ^_^
1065 2011-04-01 13:39:53 <Blitzboom> why doesnât anonymous jump on bitcoin?
1066 2011-04-01 13:40:39 chmod755 has joined
1067 2011-04-01 13:40:41 chmod755 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1068 2011-04-01 13:41:18 chmod755 has joined
1069 2011-04-01 13:43:25 gavinandresen has joined
1070 2011-04-01 13:44:48 * mizerydearia waves to gavinandresen
1071 2011-04-01 13:45:31 <gavinandresen> what did you go and do that for? Now I'll have that stupid "smooth operator" song in my head all day....
1072 2011-04-01 13:45:44 <mizerydearia> lawl
1073 2011-04-01 13:47:21 <EvanR-work> bitcoin april fools -> http://freestateinitiative.org/
1074 2011-04-01 13:47:43 <EvanR-work> The Free State Initiative launches http://freestateinitiative.org/launchThursday Mar 31 - 11:54pm
1075 2011-04-01 13:49:50 <da2ce7> oooh, is this a april fools initiative?
1076 2011-04-01 13:50:03 <EvanR-work> all signs say yes
1077 2011-04-01 13:51:00 <da2ce7> stupid april fools.
1078 2011-04-01 13:52:21 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1079 2011-04-01 13:52:42 <EvanR-work> well the guy showed up yesterday with a supporting henchman in #bitcoin-politics and he sounded like a troll
1080 2011-04-01 13:52:49 <gavinandresen> Yeah, damn idiot kids with their April Fools pranks....
1081 2011-04-01 13:53:52 <EvanR-work> he says intellectual property should be protected with state force because copying works is like raping women, that is to say "mind rape"
1082 2011-04-01 13:54:10 <kiba> rofl
1083 2011-04-01 13:55:18 <da2ce7> ok, serious: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4983.0
1084 2011-04-01 13:55:36 <EvanR-work> haha only serious
1085 2011-04-01 13:56:12 <da2ce7> wouldn't public-private key encription be the best solution?
1086 2011-04-01 13:56:33 <da2ce7> where the private componets are encripted to the public key upon generation?
1087 2011-04-01 13:57:01 <da2ce7> and the private master key is encripted with a passphase?
1088 2011-04-01 13:57:40 <idnar> EvanR-work: don't be silly, it's like murder, not rape
1089 2011-04-01 13:57:49 <EvanR-work> he said both
1090 2011-04-01 13:57:49 <idnar> EvanR-work: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/30/amazons-digital-storage-service-slammed-critics/
1091 2011-04-01 13:57:53 <da2ce7> providing a user dosn't need to spend coins, no passwords are needed.
1092 2011-04-01 13:58:25 <EvanR-work> idnar: wow.
1093 2011-04-01 13:59:11 nathan7 has joined
1094 2011-04-01 14:08:28 <Pander> what files can I delete from .bitcoin related to mining only? blk0001.dat? more? less?
1095 2011-04-01 14:08:46 <ersi> anything that isn't wallet.dat if I'm correct
1096 2011-04-01 14:10:07 <sipa> and addr.dat is you like to keep your address book
1097 2011-04-01 14:10:08 <Pander> and I dont want to loose my address book? or that isn't in addr.dat?
1098 2011-04-01 14:10:17 <Pander> crosspost
1099 2011-04-01 14:10:23 <sipa> all the rest can be reconstructed through the block chain
1100 2011-04-01 14:10:41 <Pander> what is that stuff in database dir
1101 2011-04-01 14:14:19 <ersi> I think that's related to the crunching of coins aswell as the blockchain.
1102 2011-04-01 14:15:43 <sipa> iirc those are the log files of the database
1103 2011-04-01 14:16:04 Byte75 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1104 2011-04-01 14:16:07 <genjix> does anybody know how to execute cron under another user?
1105 2011-04-01 14:16:21 <genjix> when i try to connect to bitcoin in php, i get perm denied errors
1106 2011-04-01 14:16:47 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rcead53f58276 intersango/withdraw.php: fixed truncation to use -8 not 2 since we use INT64 http://tinyurl.com/3r78v6a
1107 2011-04-01 14:16:49 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r59edd4e0db68 intersango/cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php: truncate use -8 for cron/verif_btc http://tinyurl.com/3wq6x5k
1108 2011-04-01 14:16:50 <genjix> 'Unable to connect to ... ' eventhough it works on it's own.
1109 2011-04-01 14:16:52 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rc793e87b57d8 intersango/util.php: bump up number of confirms to 4. http://tinyurl.com/3rebc7z
1110 2011-04-01 14:23:02 BlueMatt has joined
1111 2011-04-01 14:24:23 Xunie has joined
1112 2011-04-01 14:25:40 <genjix> nvm
1113 2011-04-01 14:27:00 <kiba> hmm, nefario told me why he did not need my work weeks and weeks after
1114 2011-04-01 14:27:12 <kiba> the fact
1115 2011-04-01 14:27:16 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1116 2011-04-01 14:27:18 <kiba> I am dismayed with the lack of communication
1117 2011-04-01 14:27:57 <kiba> I can't fix stuff if I don't know what's wrong!
1118 2011-04-01 14:28:41 <kiba> but anyway...I can move on I guess
1119 2011-04-01 14:29:07 <gavinandresen> Pander: addr.dat is IP addresses of nodes you've connected to. You only need wallet.dat
1120 2011-04-01 14:29:27 <gavinandresen> (your 'address book' is in wallet.dat)
1121 2011-04-01 14:29:49 <grbgout> Pander: why are you wanting to delete things in .bitcoin?
1122 2011-04-01 14:34:43 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1123 2011-04-01 14:40:12 justmoon has joined
1124 2011-04-01 14:42:20 <justmoon> are there any bootstrapping methods other than IRC implemented in the official client so far?
1125 2011-04-01 14:43:02 <BlueMatt> justmoon: yes, a list of peers and in git HEAD a list of dns peers
1126 2011-04-01 14:43:15 <BlueMatt> ie named addresses which point to peers
1127 2011-04-01 14:43:23 <sipa> and -addnode and -connect
1128 2011-04-01 14:43:32 <xelister> we could add easly Freenet bootstrapping
1129 2011-04-01 14:44:31 <BlueMatt> we need a better bootstrapping method, Im in favor of a torrent-style dht
1130 2011-04-01 14:44:36 * nathan7 makes the obligatory child porn joke about freenet
1131 2011-04-01 14:44:38 <BlueMatt> but there are many options
1132 2011-04-01 14:45:04 <justmoon> ok thanks for the response, I'll look into those
1133 2011-04-01 14:45:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: how do you bootstrap that DHT?
1134 2011-04-01 14:45:43 <xelister> what chan/serv is used now for irc bootstrap
1135 2011-04-01 14:46:01 <nanotube> xelister: lfnet/#bitcoin
1136 2011-04-01 14:46:15 <justmoon> host is irc.lfnet.org
1137 2011-04-01 14:46:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: true, but IMHO we can use the existing dht in bittorrent and chose a random hash and use that
1138 2011-04-01 14:47:33 <sipa> i don't like depending on yet another network
1139 2011-04-01 14:47:44 <sipa> as an optional bootstrapper, sure
1140 2011-04-01 14:48:10 <BlueMatt> sipa: obviously keep the hard-coded list of nodes and the dns seed list
1141 2011-04-01 14:48:14 <BlueMatt> but we need to move off of irc
1142 2011-04-01 14:48:25 <BlueMatt> we already overflow that chan
1143 2011-04-01 14:49:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: any better ideas?
1144 2011-04-01 14:49:36 <genjix> setup our own irc network which has no channel limits.
1145 2011-04-01 14:50:23 <BlueMatt> meh, Im not a big fan of a centralized bootstrap, a list of nodes being slightly less centralized than one server
1146 2011-04-01 14:50:25 <sipa> in that case you could as well just use bitcoin itself
1147 2011-04-01 14:50:32 <sipa> it already has a database of peers
1148 2011-04-01 14:50:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh...
1149 2011-04-01 14:51:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: never took much of a look at the list of peers, how much is it actually used
1150 2011-04-01 14:51:26 <sipa> peers tell eachother the addresses of their peers
1151 2011-04-01 14:51:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: from what I can tell the first bootstrap happens almost entirely from irc
1152 2011-04-01 14:52:28 <sipa> let's try
1153 2011-04-01 14:55:45 <xelister> da2ce7: pubkey 06218EB5 D9C2A12C 0E0F4913 38DED6AE
1154 2011-04-01 14:57:09 sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1155 2011-04-01 14:57:25 robotarmy has joined
1156 2011-04-01 14:57:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: i've started a bitcoin with empty database here, with -noirc and -addnode
1157 2011-04-01 14:58:09 <sipa> seems to open connections to the outside fine
1158 2011-04-01 14:58:15 <sipa> not too many though, yet
1159 2011-04-01 14:58:28 <BlueMatt> sipa: how many of them are on the hard-coded list
1160 2011-04-01 14:58:38 <sipa> good point
1161 2011-04-01 14:58:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: specifically, how many of the outgoing connections are, I dont care about incoming ones
1162 2011-04-01 14:59:57 <gavinandresen> The networking code has a preference for dropping the hard-coded fallback ip connections after it has gathered more peers from addr messages (so the hardcoded nodes don't get 'full')
1163 2011-04-01 15:00:29 <gavinandresen> ... and talk to jgarzik about his DNS seeding patch.
1164 2011-04-01 15:02:04 <BlueMatt> yea dns seeding is a good idea too, but trying to use it for anything more than a fast-updating version of the hard-coded peers is just as unscalable as irc
1165 2011-04-01 15:02:24 <BlueMatt> so still not the best idea for bootstraping imho
1166 2011-04-01 15:02:49 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: hm, didnt know that. Need to go do some more net.cpp reading
1167 2011-04-01 15:03:05 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: why do you feel DNS seeding is unscalable?
1168 2011-04-01 15:03:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: depends on how you are using it
1169 2011-04-01 15:03:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: if you are trying to use it like the irc, well...
1170 2011-04-01 15:03:49 <BlueMatt> its not much different than irc
1171 2011-04-01 15:04:10 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: do you know how it works? I don't see many parallels with IRC seeding.
1172 2011-04-01 15:04:18 <sipa> DNS seeding is completely different
1173 2011-04-01 15:04:26 <jgarzik> yep
1174 2011-04-01 15:04:29 <sipa> it's a replacement for a hardcoded list
1175 2011-04-01 15:04:36 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: are you planning on using it to add all nodes to or just a hardcoded list replacement
1176 2011-04-01 15:04:56 <BlueMatt> because if its a hardcoded list replacement, then the first half of my earlier statement still applies
1177 2011-04-01 15:05:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: which part?
1178 2011-04-01 15:05:19 <BlueMatt> "trying to use it for anything more than a fast-updating version of the hard-coded peers"
1179 2011-04-01 15:05:32 <BlueMatt> ie it is just a fast-updating version of the hard-coded lsit
1180 2011-04-01 15:05:33 <xelister> BlueMatt: we have idea with da2ce7
1181 2011-04-01 15:05:41 <xelister> about bootstraping
1182 2011-04-01 15:05:46 <sipa> shoot
1183 2011-04-01 15:05:48 <xelister> allow it also over freenet
1184 2011-04-01 15:05:52 * jgarzik rolls his eyes
1185 2011-04-01 15:05:59 <xelister> we could take this first step to full btcfn
1186 2011-04-01 15:06:04 <sipa> write a patch :)
1187 2011-04-01 15:06:08 <xelister> sipa: yeap
1188 2011-04-01 15:06:34 <xelister> do we have yet RPC or other call to foce-add a peer once we somehow obrtain peer IP:port ?
1189 2011-04-01 15:06:42 <luke-jr> tcatm: then js-remote is broken
1190 2011-04-01 15:06:48 <BlueMatt> I think bitcoin over freenet is a cool idea, but for bootstrapping...
1191 2011-04-01 15:06:54 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: because tcatm wouldn't do it the sensible way
1192 2011-04-01 15:07:03 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: and now it's "set in stone" sortof :P
1193 2011-04-01 15:07:07 <BlueMatt> well on second thought I dont like it (just like my earlier dht idea, which is actually quite bad)
1194 2011-04-01 15:07:39 <xelister> BlueMatt: yes, it can help boostrapping too
1195 2011-04-01 15:08:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: I understand it can help, but Im not a big fan of using it therefor
1196 2011-04-01 15:08:16 <xelister> why not
1197 2011-04-01 15:08:27 <xelister> it is probably least fascinating use of BtcFn,
1198 2011-04-01 15:08:30 <xelister> but it is what we need now
1199 2011-04-01 15:08:34 <BlueMatt> <sipa> i don't like depending on yet another network
1200 2011-04-01 15:08:34 <BlueMatt> <sipa> as an optional bootstrapper, sure
1201 2011-04-01 15:08:39 <xelister> dunno is it just me, but for past days my boostrapping sycks
1202 2011-04-01 15:08:47 <xelister> sucks. 5 peers :-E instead of 50
1203 2011-04-01 15:08:49 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: DNS seeding is a bootstrapping method, just like IRC. It's not used to "add all nodes" -- just like IRC or the hardcoded list is not used to "add all nodes." All you need is one node, and then peer exchange kicks in.
1204 2011-04-01 15:09:13 <BlueMatt> xelister: yea the irc chan is overflowing
1205 2011-04-01 15:09:22 <xelister> BlueMatt: indeed. But people that anyway run Freenet will love it, and there is noticible community of both bitcoin@freenet users
1206 2011-04-01 15:09:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes, I understand that. Hence my comparison of it to the hard-coded list
1207 2011-04-01 15:10:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: and I think thats great, but for everyone to use it
1208 2011-04-01 15:10:28 <xelister> BlueMatt: yes, this is only for bitcoin+freenet users. We still need to improve other ways
1209 2011-04-01 15:10:37 <xelister> BlueMatt: but, this method will be uncensorable :)
1210 2011-04-01 15:10:46 <BlueMatt> Exactly what xelister said, when the chan overflows clients just dont make many, if more than one or two outgoing connections so it needs more work
1211 2011-04-01 15:10:55 <xelister> and will make it easier for both users (and us, developers of BtcFn) to start doing something usefull
1212 2011-04-01 15:10:58 sshc has joined
1213 2011-04-01 15:12:51 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1214 2011-04-01 15:13:40 <da2ce7> personaly I think that BtcFn is something that needs to be done. Bootstraping nodes via freenet requires somebody on freenet to keep a big list of nodes, and people download that list and connect to em at random
1215 2011-04-01 15:14:06 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: I agree, it is a great idea
1216 2011-04-01 15:14:12 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1217 2011-04-01 15:14:47 <jgarzik> it's a minority feature, that won't help at all with the IRC overflow problem
1218 2011-04-01 15:14:57 <BlueMatt> yep
1219 2011-04-01 15:15:07 skeledrew has joined
1220 2011-04-01 15:15:34 <xelister> jgarzik: bitcoin+freenet is a growing community, for them it will be major future and introduction to entire BtcFn
1221 2011-04-01 15:15:53 <BlueMatt> xelister: but still not a majority in the bitcoin community
1222 2011-04-01 15:16:01 <da2ce7> jgarzik. the simple solution to the overfolw is to connect to two channels #bitcoin-? and #bitcoin-? where ? is a random lettler.
1223 2011-04-01 15:16:06 <xelister> I may write also another methof of adding peers, what do you propose? for minor bounty prefferably
1224 2011-04-01 15:16:28 <da2ce7> that would make each channel on average 12x less users.
1225 2011-04-01 15:16:28 <jgarzik> Tonal in bitcoin is a major feature for the tonal community and luke-jr, too :)
1226 2011-04-01 15:16:47 <BlueMatt> more like tonal community == luke-jr
1227 2011-04-01 15:16:53 <jgarzik> yeap :)
1228 2011-04-01 15:17:39 <xelister> jgarzik: I know 0 other users then luke-jr of tonal, and I know like 10 guys that use freenet&bitcoin, and I was not really searching
1229 2011-04-01 15:17:40 <da2ce7> when those channels start overflowing, we can make it two random letter.
1230 2011-04-01 15:17:42 skeledrew has quit (Client Quit)
1231 2011-04-01 15:17:54 <xelister> anyone uses daily tonall system in bitcoin
1232 2011-04-01 15:18:00 <jgarzik> with a few more seeds from trusted folks, we can just turn off IRC seeding, and turn on DNS seeding by default. Using multiple channels is just an ugly hack around the fact that IRC is a single-point-of-failure for us.
1233 2011-04-01 15:18:09 skeledrew has joined
1234 2011-04-01 15:18:33 <xelister> anyone uses daily tonall system in bitcoin?
1235 2011-04-01 15:18:35 <jgarzik> that's how BT bootstraps Kademlia DHT, among other examples
1236 2011-04-01 15:18:44 <tcatm> there's a new bitcoinwatch feature :)
1237 2011-04-01 15:18:48 <xelister> jgarzik: as long standing solution,
1238 2011-04-01 15:19:02 <jgarzik> tcatm: tonal, for April Fool's? ;-)
1239 2011-04-01 15:19:04 <xelister> does already connected peers work as seeders?
1240 2011-04-01 15:19:16 <da2ce7> how many users do we have conencted to #bitcoin atm?
1241 2011-04-01 15:19:19 <xelister> does already connected peers work as seeders - if not, then lets do that?
1242 2011-04-01 15:19:34 <xelister> 3300 users of #bitcoin
1243 2011-04-01 15:19:37 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree, but currently my clients dont connect very well when the irc overflows, so it does need a bit more work
1244 2011-04-01 15:19:47 <tcatm> jgarzik: heh, we should have made a patch that converts bitcoin to tonal. maybe next year :)
1245 2011-04-01 15:20:08 <jgarzik> xelister: as soon as you connect to _one_ bitcoin node, you exchange addresses ("peer exchange") and are on the network
1246 2011-04-01 15:20:13 <xelister> I MADE A PATCH THAT AUTO-SENDS 24% OF YOUR GENERATED COINS TO IRS
1247 2011-04-01 15:20:21 <xelister> WHY U NOT ACCEPT IT sirius-m
1248 2011-04-01 15:20:23 <xelister> >_>
1249 2011-04-01 15:20:24 <jgarzik> xelister: bootstrapping is the process of obtaining addresses for at least one node
1250 2011-04-01 15:20:36 <jgarzik> tcatm: seen gavin's pull request for Tonal? ;-)
1251 2011-04-01 15:20:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what needs more work? DNS seeding is disabled by default...
1252 2011-04-01 15:20:55 <xelister> jgarzik: this is not good, I have 4 peers for day. It should use thoes 4 nodes to get more nodes (I run maxpeers = 50)
1253 2011-04-01 15:20:59 <BlueMatt> ha, my browser doesnt support tonal...oh wait none of them do
1254 2011-04-01 15:21:07 <xelister> so we may have 2 problems
1255 2011-04-01 15:21:10 <jgarzik> xelister: huh?
1256 2011-04-01 15:21:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what xelister said, that is what I see
1257 2011-04-01 15:21:23 <jgarzik> xelister: as soon as you connect to one node, you get a bunch of addresses
1258 2011-04-01 15:21:23 <xelister> I got 4 connections, and it stays at 4 connections for a day so far
1259 2011-04-01 15:21:26 <xelister> doesnt get mroe adresses
1260 2011-04-01 15:21:33 <xelister> jgarzik: nope, just 4 connections all the time
1261 2011-04-01 15:21:35 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: works great in theory, but in practice for some reason not
1262 2011-04-01 15:21:51 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, xelister: you both tried DNS seeding?
1263 2011-04-01 15:22:05 <xelister> no
1264 2011-04-01 15:22:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: it should make too much of a difference?
1265 2011-04-01 15:22:10 <luke-jr> da2ce7: why random? if one channel is full, add 1 and try the next :P
1266 2011-04-01 15:22:20 <tcatm> jgarzik: ah I should read the forums before attaching IRC screen :)
1267 2011-04-01 15:22:32 <xelister> jgarzik: do you know about "got 4 connections, but it doesnt incrase to more connections" problem?
1268 2011-04-01 15:22:39 <xelister> or is it a new bug?
1269 2011-04-01 15:22:54 <luke-jr> I suppose randomly join N+1 too
1270 2011-04-01 15:22:55 <xelister> all was working fine past months, in broken in recent days
1271 2011-04-01 15:22:56 <jgarzik> xelister: no -- but it is not relevant to the discussion of IRC-vs-DNS bootstrapping methods
1272 2011-04-01 15:23:11 <jgarzik> xelister: that problem will be present, or absent, regardless of bootstrapping method.
1273 2011-04-01 15:23:17 <xelister> yea, but also look at this problem buys.
1274 2011-04-01 15:23:19 <xelister> guys
1275 2011-04-01 15:23:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
1276 2011-04-01 15:23:47 <xelister> would you bounty something for bootstrapping method that works and always gets you at least few peers?
1277 2011-04-01 15:24:04 <jgarzik> xelister: DNS seeding does that
1278 2011-04-01 15:24:09 <xelister> protocol rfc + implement server + implement patch to bitcoin + run first 2 servers for example
1279 2011-04-01 15:24:10 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why would the greater tonal community start using Bitcoin when they aren't welcome?
1280 2011-04-01 15:24:23 <xelister> jgarzik: url with description?
1281 2011-04-01 15:24:49 <xelister> DNS seeding is implemented? then push it to mainline?
1282 2011-04-01 15:24:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you are welcome to use what you want as is any other tonal community, the point was simply that there currently isnt one
1283 2011-04-01 15:25:04 <jgarzik> xelister: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/f684aec4f38d6a9e48e870ca5dae6bd65da516cf
1284 2011-04-01 15:25:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there is. just not using Bitcoin.
1285 2011-04-01 15:25:13 <jgarzik> xelister: DNS seeding is already in mainline
1286 2011-04-01 15:25:16 <xelister> what to do to use it?
1287 2011-04-01 15:25:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I meant existing bitcoin one
1288 2011-04-01 15:25:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there is also a Dozenal community even larger than Tonal.
1289 2011-04-01 15:25:40 <jgarzik> xelister: -dnsseed, assuming you are using a version from git
1290 2011-04-01 15:25:43 <xelister> with DNS seeding bitcoin queries a DNS? and who administrates the DNS to include nodes addresses
1291 2011-04-01 15:25:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: but tcatm at least has expressed that he'd rather they not use Bitcoin
1292 2011-04-01 15:26:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok well sorry on behalf of tcatm, I think more people is always better what ever they use
1293 2011-04-01 15:26:20 <luke-jr> xelister: that's why we have multiple domains
1294 2011-04-01 15:27:53 <tcatm> luke-jr: That's not what I said. I said that Dozenal support shouldn't be the only reason for them to use bitcoin as bitcoin has other, more valuable properties.
1295 2011-04-01 15:28:02 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
1296 2011-04-01 15:28:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116153 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 774 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 56 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 79043.39222614
1297 2011-04-01 15:28:08 Zarutian has joined
1298 2011-04-01 15:28:17 <xelister> with DNS seed, the list of peers is updated by a human, or is it automated?
1299 2011-04-01 15:28:22 <luke-jr> tcatm: valuable to you. not to most people.
1300 2011-04-01 15:28:27 maikmerten has joined
1301 2011-04-01 15:28:38 <jgarzik> xelister: depends on the host
1302 2011-04-01 15:28:46 <da2ce7> jgarzik, each node seednode list should also have an ECDSA public key. So that when connecting the identiy is verfied.
1303 2011-04-01 15:29:01 <jgarzik> xelister: some seeds are automated, pulled from addr.dat and some are hardcoded fallback nodes
1304 2011-04-01 15:29:05 <xelister> so some hosts are activly quering other methods to obtain more IPs and publish them in own DNS?
1305 2011-04-01 15:29:14 <jgarzik> da2ce7: which identity?
1306 2011-04-01 15:29:15 <xelister> example of best/automated DNS?
1307 2011-04-01 15:30:25 <da2ce7> well when connecting to a dns seednode, upon connecting you get the seednode to sign a random string to verify it is the intended node in the seednodes file.
1308 2011-04-01 15:30:45 <da2ce7> so there is no man-in-the-middle attacks.
1309 2011-04-01 15:30:50 <jgarzik> xelister: currently bitseed.xf2.org slowly rotates nodes, and bitseed.bitcoin.co.uk is static list of fallback nodes
1310 2011-04-01 15:31:31 <jgarzik> da2ce7: versus what? IRC is vulnerable to MITM also
1311 2011-04-01 15:31:53 <jgarzik> da2ce7: what key is signed, and how do you verify that? This is a whole new layer you are suggesting, a trust layer
1312 2011-04-01 15:32:42 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: If I use -dnsseed, should it not be able to get 8 outgoing connections pretty quick?
1313 2011-04-01 15:32:43 <da2ce7> yeah. so it is better than IRC and what we have at the moment. the trusted seednodes that we set up will only send messages singed by their private keys.
1314 2011-04-01 15:32:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: mine sits at 2 for quite a while
1315 2011-04-01 15:33:26 <da2ce7> so when somebody downloads bitcoin, they have the public keys included with the download.
1316 2011-04-01 15:33:42 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it should get addresses
1317 2011-04-01 15:33:53 <da2ce7> and we can re-use the bitcoin ECDSA system
1318 2011-04-01 15:34:21 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that's the only thing it does... connection logic is separate
1319 2011-04-01 15:34:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: but mine doesnt, which was my original point. Although it is a great idea and I agree it could replace irc, it currently doesnt work so...
1320 2011-04-01 15:34:36 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im not blaming it on dnsseed
1321 2011-04-01 15:34:37 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it doesn't get any addresses?
1322 2011-04-01 15:34:46 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: your addr.dat is empty?
1323 2011-04-01 15:35:35 BitterTe1 is now known as BitterTea
1324 2011-04-01 15:36:00 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no addr.dat appears to fill up fine, but outgoing connections...not so much
1325 2011-04-01 15:36:04 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * ra2b6c19 / net.cpp : Update DNS seed list - http://bit.ly/fkpqEp
1326 2011-04-01 15:37:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: then it doesn't sound much different from IRC behavior, where if you get grotty nodes, your number of connections will be low
1327 2011-04-01 15:37:27 Pander has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110323143040])
1328 2011-04-01 15:40:31 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1329 2011-04-01 15:41:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, well needs fixed either way
1330 2011-04-01 15:41:28 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1331 2011-04-01 15:41:44 <jgarzik> yes
1332 2011-04-01 15:41:55 <xelister> jgarzik: anyone got handy linux cmd to got say 50 nodes from there to paste to cmdline -addnode= on older clients?
1333 2011-04-01 15:42:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I guess my point really had nothing to do with dns or irc or hard-coded lists, but really just that bootstrapping needs to get upgraded in general
1334 2011-04-01 15:43:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: outside of (it sounds like) a bug that connects to too-few nodes if you have bad luck... what needs upgrading?
1335 2011-04-01 15:45:10 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1336 2011-04-01 15:45:50 <BlueMatt> pretty much just that. IMHO it should be more aggressive if you have <8 connections
1337 2011-04-01 15:46:38 <BlueMatt> I really need to learn to be more succinct the first time
1338 2011-04-01 15:54:34 eao has joined
1339 2011-04-01 15:58:21 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
1340 2011-04-01 15:58:23 <gribble> 116157
1341 2011-04-01 15:58:28 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
1342 2011-04-01 15:58:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116157 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 770 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 79020.12363850
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1362 2011-04-01 16:13:59 <xelister> Im selling 5950, never overclocked, used 1 month, for 100 BTC. First who transfers funds to 15ZVNc5Rr4SuJtDL1auqg5GByprimaaprilis1apr gets it
1363 2011-04-01 16:14:20 <BlueMatt> xelister: can you ship to .de?
1364 2011-04-01 16:14:27 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1365 2011-04-01 16:14:36 <xelister> I ship worldwide cost is on me, also taxes and customs are on me
1366 2011-04-01 16:15:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: 5950?
1367 2011-04-01 16:15:15 <xelister> I add a compimentary 1 gold bar to buyer
1368 2011-04-01 16:15:21 <xelister> *1gram
1369 2011-04-01 16:15:38 <BlueMatt> damn, though you had made a typo
1370 2011-04-01 16:15:44 <xelister> :>
1371 2011-04-01 16:16:05 <grbgout> o.O
1372 2011-04-01 16:16:10 <grbgout> has anyone bought it yet?
1373 2011-04-01 16:16:16 <xelister> nope ;)
1374 2011-04-01 16:16:22 <grbgout> BlueMatt: are you going to?
1375 2011-04-01 16:16:31 <xelister> <_<
1376 2011-04-01 16:16:34 <BlueMatt> grbgout: ...
1377 2011-04-01 16:16:40 <luke-jr> lol
1378 2011-04-01 16:16:41 <grbgout> What?
1379 2011-04-01 16:16:49 * xelister mphphphphphh
1380 2011-04-01 16:17:09 * grbgout shrugs
1381 2011-04-01 16:17:11 <BlueMatt> thought he had made a typo on 5950 and meant a real card, so....
1382 2011-04-01 16:17:28 <xelister> also look at the address
1383 2011-04-01 16:17:40 * grbgout nods
1384 2011-04-01 16:17:40 <BlueMatt> oh, ha hadnt seen that part
1385 2011-04-01 16:17:45 <xelister> =)
1386 2011-04-01 16:17:49 <grbgout> I was actually in the process of looking for the 5950 to compare prices ;)
1387 2011-04-01 16:17:59 <xelister> sorry guys :trolldad: =)
1388 2011-04-01 16:18:04 <grbgout> but I wasn't going to waste my time if BlueMatt was going to make the purchase.
1389 2011-04-01 16:18:12 <BlueMatt> grbgout: oh, haha
1390 2011-04-01 16:18:27 <BlueMatt> well done xelister
1391 2011-04-01 16:18:30 <grbgout> I hadn't even looked at the address yet.
1392 2011-04-01 16:18:58 <BlueMatt> meh who looks beyond the first character anyway?
1393 2011-04-01 16:19:03 <grbgout> indeed
1394 2011-04-01 16:19:14 <luke-jr> I look first 3
1395 2011-04-01 16:19:27 <BlueMatt> meh I look for the 1
1396 2011-04-01 16:19:41 <grbgout> I just assume it's legit: what's the point in providing a fake one? Unless, of course, you're trollin'
1397 2011-04-01 16:20:16 <luke-jr> first to send 100 BTC to 1HPCxp4xcf7Rh85JEdUJMnnkqo3ZGegobf gets absolutelynothing
1398 2011-04-01 16:20:19 <luke-jr> FAST
1399 2011-04-01 16:20:23 <luke-jr> <.<
1400 2011-04-01 16:21:00 <grbgout> It's going to take a while... I've been mining for about a week, and I've only made 1.71 BTC T_T
1401 2011-04-01 16:21:19 <luke-jr> grbgout: you're not CPU mining are you? >.>
1402 2011-04-01 16:21:19 <grbgout> luke-jr, can you put me on a payment plan? I've always wanted absolutelynothing
1403 2011-04-01 16:21:26 <grbgout> nope
1404 2011-04-01 16:21:28 <grbgout> GT 240
1405 2011-04-01 16:21:31 <luke-jr> ow
1406 2011-04-01 16:21:36 <grbgout> yah
1407 2011-04-01 16:21:45 <grbgout> hence the interest in an ATI for cheap ;)
1408 2011-04-01 16:21:48 <luke-jr> you might as well be CPU mining
1409 2011-04-01 16:21:52 <grbgout> hah
1410 2011-04-01 16:21:53 <BlueMatt> might be a bit power-inefficient
1411 2011-04-01 16:21:56 <luke-jr> my CPU can almost match that
1412 2011-04-01 16:22:03 <grbgout> really? What cpu?
1413 2011-04-01 16:22:19 <luke-jr> i5-2400
1414 2011-04-01 16:22:33 <grbgout> interesting
1415 2011-04-01 16:22:44 <BlueMatt> my cpu can beat it
1416 2011-04-01 16:22:52 <BlueMatt> i7 920 ocd :)
1417 2011-04-01 16:22:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: OC doesn't count
1418 2011-04-01 16:23:11 <luke-jr> my CPU is still undamaged ;)
1419 2011-04-01 16:23:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: mines on water :)
1420 2011-04-01 16:23:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: irrelevant
1421 2011-04-01 16:23:40 <BlueMatt> no quite literally mine is sitting in a pile of water, destroyed
1422 2011-04-01 16:25:11 <tcatm> genjix: https://britcoin.co.uk/api/getTrades.php
1423 2011-04-01 16:25:34 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1424 2011-04-01 16:25:38 <genjix> hmm not loading
1425 2011-04-01 16:26:37 <genjix> fuuu the whole site is locked up...
1426 2011-04-01 16:29:04 <genjix> tcatm: ok fixed.
1427 2011-04-01 16:32:11 <grbgout> Hmm, that's odd. According to the wiki Mining_hardware_comparison list, an HD 4650 has 320 SP and gets 36.14 Mhash/s, but my GT 240 only has 96 SP and gets 21.24 MHash/s. Why is the AMD getting such low Mhash/s with (comparatively) so many SP?
1428 2011-04-01 16:32:25 <ArtForz> clock speed
1429 2011-04-01 16:32:35 * grbgout taps his nose
1430 2011-04-01 16:32:38 <grbgout> I was just thinking that.
1431 2011-04-01 16:32:40 devrandom has joined
1432 2011-04-01 16:33:05 <ArtForz> AMD always went the "shitload of low-clocked shaders" approach
1433 2011-04-01 16:33:09 <grbgout> 1340 compared to 650
1434 2011-04-01 16:33:32 <ArtForz> yep
1435 2011-04-01 16:34:54 <ArtForz> and with 3x the shader ALUs at about 1/2 the clock, a 4650 uses less power than a GT240 ;)
1436 2011-04-01 16:35:20 <grbgout> yup
1437 2011-04-01 16:35:53 <Diablo-D3> the only thing that should be a GT240 is a car.
1438 2011-04-01 16:35:56 <grbgout> but if I'm going to drop some coin (pun most certainly intended) on a GPU for mining, it damn well better be able to get more Mhash/s than my GT
1439 2011-04-01 16:36:22 <EvanR-work> question about embedded bitcoind
1440 2011-04-01 16:36:32 <EvanR-work> for long term
1441 2011-04-01 16:36:46 <EvanR-work> what are the upgrade prospects here, and forward compatibility
1442 2011-04-01 16:36:49 <EvanR-work> issues
1443 2011-04-01 16:37:01 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r88eea58e748a intersango/cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php: BUGFIX: missing alias for ver_withdr_btc http://tinyurl.com/439bnnj
1444 2011-04-01 16:37:02 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * raa21a35f72a7 intersango/www/api/getTrades.php: BUGFIX: timest error. http://tinyurl.com/43lo7yx
1445 2011-04-01 16:37:16 <EvanR-work> would be nice to leave it as is and not have to worry about upgrades, but will that brick the device in the future?
1446 2011-04-01 16:37:55 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: forward compatibility is very important to jgarzik and gavinandresen
1447 2011-04-01 16:38:14 <BlueMatt> EvanR-work: afaict, they wont do anything that breaks that unless strictly necessary
1448 2011-04-01 16:38:30 <ArtForz> I kinda like 5770s
1449 2011-04-01 16:38:41 <EvanR-work> hm.
1450 2011-04-01 16:38:49 <EvanR-work> i guess its safest to set up an upgrade path
1451 2011-04-01 16:38:54 <EvanR-work> if necessary
1452 2011-04-01 16:38:55 jrabbit has joined
1453 2011-04-01 16:38:55 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: all software requires upgrades
1454 2011-04-01 16:39:00 <EvanR-work> to be able to upgrade if necessary
1455 2011-04-01 16:39:12 <ArtForz> cheap, decently fast, can be run semi-passive with aftermarket coolers
1456 2011-04-01 16:39:36 <grbgout> ArtForz: I've been looking at pricewatch to get an idea of a value-card might be.
1457 2011-04-01 16:39:43 <grbgout> *of what a
1458 2011-04-01 16:39:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's funny, jgarzik said once that if we were going to change the JSON-RPC, not to bother with compatibility
1459 2011-04-01 16:40:03 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I meant compatibility with the network
1460 2011-04-01 16:40:17 <BlueMatt> not necessarily backed
1461 2011-04-01 16:40:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that means it will never be more divisible for sure
1462 2011-04-01 16:40:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yep
1463 2011-04-01 16:40:50 <luke-jr> unless the majority decides to throw jgarzik and gavin out of the client biz :P
1464 2011-04-01 16:41:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, I kinda doubt people will do that
1465 2011-04-01 16:41:24 <luke-jr> unless there's incentive :P
1466 2011-04-01 16:41:27 <grbgout> I wonder how well a 4650 would OC....
1467 2011-04-01 16:41:40 <luke-jr> but I imagine they'd change their minds first
1468 2011-04-01 16:42:08 <ArtForz> probably not too great
1469 2011-04-01 16:42:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: currently, there is no incentive so...
1470 2011-04-01 16:42:18 <grbgout> instability, you think?
1471 2011-04-01 16:42:28 <ArtForz> same GPU as 4670, but lower Vcore
1472 2011-04-01 16:42:51 <luke-jr> any idea, will old/current clients *eventually* concede if they see the network majority accepting blocks they don't like?
1473 2011-04-01 16:43:01 <ArtForz> no
1474 2011-04-01 16:43:04 <luke-jr> ew
1475 2011-04-01 16:46:36 sabalaba has joined
1476 2011-04-01 16:48:06 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, eh personally i think every client should accept any transaction that makes it into a block and is valid regardless of how ridiculous the script is
1477 2011-04-01 16:50:01 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: then I'll make blocks giving all your money to me with nonsensical scripts nobody can understand :D
1478 2011-04-01 16:50:05 Strom- is now known as Strom
1479 2011-04-01 16:50:22 <phantomcircuit> "is valid"
1480 2011-04-01 16:50:40 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: then "it already does"
1481 2011-04-01 16:51:17 <phantomcircuit> uh do they?
1482 2011-04-01 16:51:20 bitcoiner has joined
1483 2011-04-01 16:52:15 <luke-jr> yes
1484 2011-04-01 16:54:26 jrabbit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1485 2011-04-01 16:54:56 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so if i got a miner to accept a bunch of transactions with a huge numbers of sig ops i could potentially fuck shit up?
1486 2011-04-01 16:57:07 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no, but the block would be accepted
1487 2011-04-01 16:59:06 <phantomcircuit> but the transaction wouldn't be?
1488 2011-04-01 16:59:33 <luke-jr> sure it would
1489 2011-04-01 16:59:45 <luke-jr> you're assuming that huge numbers of sig ops is a problem
1490 2011-04-01 17:00:14 <phantomcircuit> they take like 3 milliseconds each
1491 2011-04-01 17:00:25 jrabbit has joined
1492 2011-04-01 17:00:42 <phantomcircuit> i could put several hundred thousand into a single transaction
1493 2011-04-01 17:01:44 <luke-jr> so you give everyone a lot of worthless crap to do for an hour, then the network moves on
1494 2011-04-01 17:02:01 <phantomcircuit> yeah that's a problem since new blocks happen every 10 minutes
1495 2011-04-01 17:02:03 <luke-jr> in the meantime, maybe another miner finds a solution that gets verified faster ;)
1496 2011-04-01 17:02:36 <phantomcircuit> oh
1497 2011-04-01 17:02:38 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1498 2011-04-01 17:02:43 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: static const int MAX_BLOCK_SIGOPS = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/50;
1499 2011-04-01 17:02:51 <tcatm> (from main.h)
1500 2011-04-01 17:02:56 <luke-jr> so really, you've slowed only the people your miner is connected to down, and they eventually reject it in preference of the longer chain
1501 2011-04-01 17:03:37 <luke-jr> tcatm: so max 1 minute
1502 2011-04-01 17:04:41 <genjix> mizerydearia: http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2011/02/sql-formatting-style.html
1503 2011-04-01 17:05:15 <mizerydearia> hmm?
1504 2011-04-01 17:06:02 <genjix> i remember you didn't format your SQL and was just reading that article.
1505 2011-04-01 17:06:10 <mizerydearia> mm
1506 2011-04-01 17:06:14 <phantomcircuit> sql formatting is for noobs
1507 2011-04-01 17:06:16 <genjix> (you should... imagined maintaining https://gitorious.org/intersango/master/blobs/master/scr/sanity.sql as one line)
1508 2011-04-01 17:06:35 <phantomcircuit> if your query is so complex you cant understand it you should be using a view
1509 2011-04-01 17:06:41 <genjix> phantomcircuit: https://gitorious.org/intersango/master/blobs/master/scr/sanity.sql https://gitorious.org/intersango/master/blobs/master/cron/bankd/show_withdraws.sql
1510 2011-04-01 17:06:49 <genjix> love to see you one liner those
1511 2011-04-01 17:06:56 <mizerydearia> genjix, I like compact code so as to reduce scrolling and to reduce/minimize carpal tunnel syndrome
1512 2011-04-01 17:07:03 <phantomcircuit> genjix, views nigga i just said views
1513 2011-04-01 17:07:29 <mizerydearia> e.g. pushing page down repeatedly
1514 2011-04-01 17:08:01 <phantomcircuit> also what the hell is that tryingn to do
1515 2011-04-01 17:08:28 <genjix> which one?
1516 2011-04-01 17:08:56 <phantomcircuit> sanity.sql
1517 2011-04-01 17:09:08 <genjix> sanity - checks that the exchange rate for trades is the same as the exchange rate set by the traders
1518 2011-04-01 17:09:29 <genjix> it's error checking
1519 2011-04-01 17:09:51 octarine has joined
1520 2011-04-01 17:10:01 octarine has left ()
1521 2011-04-01 17:15:53 <phantomcircuit> http://piratepad.net/wW5X2uTZAG
1522 2011-04-01 17:15:56 <phantomcircuit> watch me code
1523 2011-04-01 17:15:57 <phantomcircuit> it's neat
1524 2011-04-01 17:17:51 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1525 2011-04-01 17:18:08 da2ce7 has joined
1526 2011-04-01 17:19:41 <jgarzik> oh, good f'ing grief. python-jsonrpc does its own JSON encoding, rather than use the internal python 'json' module.
1527 2011-04-01 17:20:19 <jgarzik> s/encoding/decoding/ Thus making it impossible to use the built-in python json feature of decoding to Decimal rather than float
1528 2011-04-01 17:20:20 <phantomcircuit> N/A 1-75 (special) data The next opcode bytes is data to be pushed onto the stack
1529 2011-04-01 17:20:20 <grbgout> huh?
1530 2011-04-01 17:20:21 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1531 2011-04-01 17:20:29 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: this is why I fucking hate python
1532 2011-04-01 17:20:40 <Diablo-D3> also, http://xn--js-wka.com/
1533 2011-04-01 17:20:46 <jgarzik> Isn't that CS 101? Don't reinvent routines found in the standard library?
1534 2011-04-01 17:20:55 <grbgout> :)
1535 2011-04-01 17:20:56 <jgarzik> because You Probably Don't Know What You're Doing
1536 2011-04-01 17:20:59 lfm has joined
1537 2011-04-01 17:21:18 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: not only is it CS 101, it violates one of the first 10 rules of how to piss off diablo
1538 2011-04-01 17:21:21 kermit has joined
1539 2011-04-01 17:23:09 rli has left ()
1540 2011-04-01 17:24:49 <genjix> jgarzik: i made my own one
1541 2011-04-01 17:25:15 <genjix> well it's a small tiny modification
1542 2011-04-01 17:25:20 <genjix> so you should be able to use that
1543 2011-04-01 17:25:23 <jgarzik> genjix: I did also
1544 2011-04-01 17:25:52 Guest23495 has joined
1545 2011-04-01 17:25:58 <jgarzik> genjix: because of stupid shite like this. But python-jsonrpc is what the average user will encounter in the field, and first grab for use with bitcoin.
1546 2011-04-01 17:26:10 <genjix> agreed
1547 2011-04-01 17:27:15 <gjs278> you hate the entire language of python because some guy made a library for it that you don't like??
1548 2011-04-01 17:27:31 <jgarzik> see class BitcoinRPC for my own implementation, in either http://yyz.us/bitcoin/pyminer.py or http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py. Less than 30 lines.
1549 2011-04-01 17:27:46 <jgarzik> gjs278: no
1550 2011-04-01 17:28:02 <gjs278> referring to: [12:18] <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: this is why I fucking hate python
1551 2011-04-01 17:28:23 <jgarzik> gjs278: you understand I did not write that, yes?
1552 2011-04-01 17:28:28 <gjs278> I know
1553 2011-04-01 17:28:29 <genjix> ok
1554 2011-04-01 17:28:30 <genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29#Python
1555 2011-04-01 17:28:38 <gjs278> and I was referring to diablo saying that, not you
1556 2011-04-01 17:28:55 sprash has joined
1557 2011-04-01 17:29:01 <genjix> jgarzik: that ^ is better
1558 2011-04-01 17:29:03 sprash_ has joined
1559 2011-04-01 17:29:11 <genjix> access = ServiceProxy("http://user:password@127.0.0.1:8332")
1560 2011-04-01 17:29:13 <jgarzik> gjs278: ah, my apologies. I have Diablo-D3 on /ignore, and your line lacked "nick:" prefix.
1561 2011-04-01 17:29:15 sprash_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1562 2011-04-01 17:29:17 <gjs278> hahah
1563 2011-04-01 17:29:17 <genjix> access.listreceivedbyaddress(6)
1564 2011-04-01 17:29:27 <jgarzik> gjs278: for reasons such as just now ;-)
1565 2011-04-01 17:29:40 <genjix> then you don't need to map the arguments to self.rpc
1566 2011-04-01 17:30:01 <lfm> still doesnt mean there are not other reasons to also hate the language.
1567 2011-04-01 17:30:13 <gjs278> no semi colons!!!
1568 2011-04-01 17:30:22 <jgarzik> genjix: yeah, I should figure out how to do that. I readily admit I am a python newbie. poold and pyminer are my first, and second, python programs ever.
1569 2011-04-01 17:31:04 <grbgout> Is poold, generally, what the pools are using?
1570 2011-04-01 17:31:13 <genjix> k, well the one i link, overrides the () operator and throws if the function 404s
1571 2011-04-01 17:31:14 Kiba has joined
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1573 2011-04-01 17:31:51 <nathan7> Python (=
1574 2011-04-01 17:32:00 <nathan7> Python makes nathan happy
1575 2011-04-01 17:32:00 <gjs278> backwards smilies >:|
1576 2011-04-01 17:32:08 <nathan7> gjs278: no, you're backward
1577 2011-04-01 17:32:10 <nathan7> q=
1578 2011-04-01 17:32:15 <jgarzik> so far, I'm starting to like Python better than Perl. I was a pro-Perl bigot for over 15 years, as my primary script language. Python IMHO is unsuitable for industrial strength programs, but it's great for small scripts. My python tends to be shorter than my perl.
1579 2011-04-01 17:32:31 <gjs278> no perl opencl libraries yet I think
1580 2011-04-01 17:32:40 <gjs278> haven't checked in awhile though
1581 2011-04-01 17:32:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, google would care to disagree
1582 2011-04-01 17:33:02 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, also a vast majority of the oil field exploration work is now done using python
1583 2011-04-01 17:33:03 <phantomcircuit> ;)
1584 2011-04-01 17:33:16 <gjs278> reddit is done in python
1585 2011-04-01 17:33:55 <genjix> python = best :)
1586 2011-04-01 17:33:59 <nathan7> jgarzik: Perl tends to become unreadable easily - although with a little skill you can write quite readable code.
1587 2011-04-01 17:34:37 <lfm> nathan7: that could be said about any programming system
1588 2011-04-01 17:34:41 <gjs278> lies there is no readable perl, especially with stuff like $_
1589 2011-04-01 17:34:52 <nathan7> lfm: Python is easy to write properly.
1590 2011-04-01 17:35:00 <nathan7> There is still only one person who gets the code of my IRC bot.
1591 2011-04-01 17:35:05 <nathan7> And it's not me.
1592 2011-04-01 17:35:21 <gjs278> I have an aol bot written in perl
1593 2011-04-01 17:35:22 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1594 2011-04-01 17:36:40 <jgarzik> If you're tutored by Guido, yes, you can write industrial strength python. But (objection #1) the -vast- majority of python scripts I review at length inevitably fail to handle some uncommon-but-possible exceptions you'll see in the field. The ease at which an unhandled error might take down the entire program is higher than with other languages.
1595 2011-04-01 17:36:58 <jgarzik> Objection #2: threading is stuck in the 1990s, with GIL. That is a non-serious language.
1596 2011-04-01 17:37:29 <nathan7> Yep.
1597 2011-04-01 17:37:35 <genjix> the GIL is gone in python 3
1598 2011-04-01 17:38:06 <nathan7> (=
1599 2011-04-01 17:38:16 <jgarzik> O3: combined with #1, python has a reputation for shitting itself in ugly, like traceback ways. the long tracebacks, when considering the entire universe of python scripts, wind up making python programs look unprofessional and sloppy.
1600 2011-04-01 17:38:25 maikmerten has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1601 2011-04-01 17:38:27 <grbgout> Should miner author's then recommend their users upgrade to python 3 for better performance?
1602 2011-04-01 17:38:33 <phantomcircuit> genjix, is it?
1603 2011-04-01 17:38:36 <genjix> yes
1604 2011-04-01 17:38:38 <genjix> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1222929/gil-in-python-3-1
1605 2011-04-01 17:38:52 <genjix> see 1st post
1606 2011-04-01 17:38:54 ElectRo` has joined
1607 2011-04-01 17:38:55 <nathan7> grbgout: Python 2 and 3 are different languages, technically.
1608 2011-04-01 17:39:02 <jgarzik> Quote: "GIL is still there in CPython 3.1"
1609 2011-04-01 17:39:04 <grbgout> nathan7: good to know
1610 2011-04-01 17:39:06 <nathan7> grbgout: There's a script to convert things, but it's not perfect.
1611 2011-04-01 17:39:14 <jgarzik> genjix: ^^
1612 2011-04-01 17:39:22 <genjix> yeah, my bad. But I know it will be gone soon.
1613 2011-04-01 17:39:25 <nathan7> grbgout: But valid python 2 isn't always valid or good python 3.
1614 2011-04-01 17:39:37 <jgarzik> "For now, multiprocessing (instead of threading) remains the way of choice for using multiple cores "
1615 2011-04-01 17:39:41 <jgarzik> so, GIL still there.
1616 2011-04-01 17:39:45 tg has joined
1617 2011-04-01 17:39:48 <jgarzik> lameness => present
1618 2011-04-01 17:39:52 <grbgout> nathan7: still value in learning python 2? Or, more to the point, is there a enough of a difference that things learned in a 'book' taught for 2.# won't carry over to 3?
1619 2011-04-01 17:39:57 <grbgout> gotchya
1620 2011-04-01 17:39:58 <lfm> I think good and bad programs are more about the programmer than the language
1621 2011-04-01 17:40:17 <jgarzik> lfm: some languages make certain types of programmers errors easier, or more difficult
1622 2011-04-01 17:40:30 <jgarzik> lfm: in C, it is far easier than other languages to scribble random memory
1623 2011-04-01 17:40:37 <genjix> the gil currently does multithreading by jumping to threads repeatedly until it hits the correct one
1624 2011-04-01 17:40:40 <jgarzik> accidentally scribble, due to programmer bug
1625 2011-04-01 17:40:47 <jgarzik> genjix: puke :)
1626 2011-04-01 17:40:51 <genjix> it's a hack because kernels can't do sequential switching
1627 2011-04-01 17:40:53 <genjix> i know.
1628 2011-04-01 17:41:10 <nathan7> grbgout: A few new things, but most will apply
1629 2011-04-01 17:41:13 <genjix> s/cant/dont/
1630 2011-04-01 17:41:52 <jgarzik> But all that said... I am preferring python over perl for new scripts, which tells you something about this perl fan
1631 2011-04-01 17:42:09 <lfm> if you write a bad program you shouldnt blame the language, you still wrote it
1632 2011-04-01 17:42:10 <gjs278> I really hate trying to use perl in webdev
1633 2011-04-01 17:42:24 <gjs278> because the error messages all get logged to the error file instead of just displaying on screen
1634 2011-04-01 17:42:26 <gjs278> in cgi mode
1635 2011-04-01 17:42:34 <genjix> use php
1636 2011-04-01 17:42:44 <gjs278> yeah that's what ends up happening lol
1637 2011-04-01 17:42:56 <jgarzik> lfm: pure statistics. certain classes of bugs are more prominent than others, in C or perl or python
1638 2011-04-01 17:43:10 <jgarzik> when considering, say, an entire Linux distribution
1639 2011-04-01 17:43:48 <lfm> certain classes of bugs are more prominent with bad programmers than good ones
1640 2011-04-01 17:44:02 <grbgout> Like missed classes, due to hangovers.
1641 2011-04-01 17:44:35 <jgarzik> sure, maybe bad programmers are attracted to PHP than C for example :)
1642 2011-04-01 17:45:09 <lfm> bad programmers think a magic language will make them better
1643 2011-04-01 17:45:50 <grbgout> Are any of you aware of any legacy gpgpu technique APIs?
1644 2011-04-01 17:47:01 <lfm> grbgout: what you mean legacy?
1645 2011-04-01 17:48:58 <grbgout> lfm: well, pre-opencl/cuda
1646 2011-04-01 17:49:36 <lfm> ArtFOrz has been using ati CIL thingy. Is that what you mean?
1647 2011-04-01 17:49:51 <grbgout> I'm not familiar with CIL, so probably not.
1648 2011-04-01 17:50:22 <grbgout> GPGPU has been around before the GPU manufacturers got involved (released specific APIs/SDKs for it). THe techniques were quite convoluted, though.
1649 2011-04-01 17:51:20 <lfm> before that it was just random techniques for using shaders and such for GP computing, very machine/make/model dependant
1650 2011-04-01 17:51:32 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
1651 2011-04-01 17:51:55 <grbgout> well, I don't know that I'd call the techniques random.... Certainly chip dependent, though.
1652 2011-04-01 17:52:32 <lfm> and then there is Microsoft's whatchamacallit
1653 2011-04-01 17:52:46 <grbgout> not familiar with that at all
1654 2011-04-01 17:52:58 <grbgout> didn't even know MS had a whatchamacallit in the GPGPU field.
1655 2011-04-01 17:53:51 amiller has joined
1656 2011-04-01 17:54:03 <ForceMajeure> gjs278: for CGI error logging use CGI::Carp http://search.cpan.org/~lds/CGI.pm-3.08/CGI/Carp.pm
1657 2011-04-01 17:54:23 <gjs278> how could that run if the script fails to run because of a syntax error
1658 2011-04-01 17:54:53 <ForceMajeure> perl -c before you go
1659 2011-04-01 17:55:08 lfm has quit (Quit: gotta go)
1660 2011-04-01 17:55:34 <gjs278> that sucks
1661 2011-04-01 17:55:52 <gjs278> I want to f5 away
1662 2011-04-01 17:56:11 <gjs278> but this should help at least
1663 2011-04-01 17:56:44 <ForceMajeure> no big deal if you use vi
1664 2011-04-01 18:00:17 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1667 2011-04-01 18:04:46 <finnomenon> with sed, how can I remove the first [0-9]* in every row? (and ideally all spaces following until the first non space character)
1668 2011-04-01 18:08:16 tg has joined
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1670 2011-04-01 18:11:00 <luke-jr> finnomenon: sed is non-portable
1671 2011-04-01 18:11:22 <luke-jr> perl -ple 's{^\d*\s*}{}'
1672 2011-04-01 18:13:42 blablaa has joined
1673 2011-04-01 18:14:15 blablaa has left ()
1674 2011-04-01 18:17:11 <gjs278> maybe he's just piping to it for personal use?
1675 2011-04-01 18:22:32 eao has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1676 2011-04-01 18:25:52 <Lartza> Is there a maximum number of confirmations a transaction will get?
1677 2011-04-01 18:26:15 <justmoon> confirmations are simply the number of blocks since that transaction was included in one
1678 2011-04-01 18:26:17 <justmoon> so: no
1679 2011-04-01 18:26:44 <Lartza> ahhh, didn't even really know what they were :)
1680 2011-04-01 18:27:41 <kelp> If I understand things correctly, the more blocks since your transaction, the harder it would be for an attacker to falsify that transaction. It actually gets exponentially more difficult.
1681 2011-04-01 18:28:21 <Lartza> SO if I were to falsify a transaction I should do it when... :P
1682 2011-04-01 18:29:10 <justmoon> well, you can't exactly "falsify" a transaction, the best you can do is undo it, by creating a conflicting transaction (double spend)
1683 2011-04-01 18:29:17 <BlueMatt> Lartza: you can never falsify a tx in the current client, you can double spend though
1684 2011-04-01 18:29:23 <kelp> read this: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
1685 2011-04-01 18:29:32 <kelp> it's a quick read
1686 2011-04-01 18:29:50 <BlueMatt> though you can theoretically falsify a tx once thin clients become popular
1687 2011-04-01 18:30:03 <gjs278> finnomenon: you want sed -e 's/^[0-9]*\s*//g'
1688 2011-04-01 18:30:14 <justmoon> BlueMatt: hmm?
1689 2011-04-01 18:30:31 <justmoon> BlueMatt: how so?
1690 2011-04-01 18:30:49 <BlueMatt> justmoon: thin clients dont have the block chain so cant verify if an input is real
1691 2011-04-01 18:31:16 <BlueMatt> justmoon: obviously full clients have to forward them so its not that easy but if most of the network is thin
1692 2011-04-01 18:31:32 <BlueMatt> getting them confirmed is another thing
1693 2011-04-01 18:31:37 <justmoon> I thought even a thin client would have a copy of the block headers
1694 2011-04-01 18:32:24 <BlueMatt> justmoon: nope, not necessarily. Plus txes dont link back to blocks so if you get an input you still cant verify it by getting that block
1695 2011-04-01 18:32:27 <BlueMatt> as you dont know which block
1696 2011-04-01 18:33:01 <justmoon> hmm you're right, and even if you could get the input, you wouldn't know if it had been spent in the meantime
1697 2011-04-01 18:33:10 <BlueMatt> yep
1698 2011-04-01 18:33:20 <justmoon> wait actually
1699 2011-04-01 18:33:36 <justmoon> if the transaction is in the blockchain, that means it is valid no?
1700 2011-04-01 18:33:43 <BlueMatt> in theory
1701 2011-04-01 18:33:51 <BlueMatt> that is what thin clients base all they do off of
1702 2011-04-01 18:34:46 <justmoon> well, not all thin clients
1703 2011-04-01 18:34:54 eao has joined
1704 2011-04-01 18:34:55 <BlueMatt> well current ideas for thin clients
1705 2011-04-01 18:35:16 <BlueMatt> other ones dont make that much sense afaik
1706 2011-04-01 18:35:45 <justmoon> I see
1707 2011-04-01 18:37:15 <justmoon> it would be hard to design an attack on a thin client though, no? because you don't know which peer in the network it is?
1708 2011-04-01 18:37:32 <BlueMatt> justmoon: thats the idea, see Sybil thread on the forums
1709 2011-04-01 18:37:43 <justmoon> thanks I'll check it out
1710 2011-04-01 18:41:38 <gasteve> I need some makefile expertise
1711 2011-04-01 18:41:54 <gasteve> (and don't feel like scouring the web to find the best idioms)
1712 2011-04-01 18:42:23 <gasteve> I mentioned the other day that I've separated classes into separate files and what not
1713 2011-04-01 18:42:45 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1714 2011-04-01 18:42:48 <gasteve> now I want a way to write the makefile such that I don't have to explicitly list all of the target *.o files
1715 2011-04-01 18:43:03 <gasteve> (which should be a 1:1 relation to the *.cpp files)
1716 2011-04-01 18:44:34 <gasteve> in the makefile, I just want to build object file targets for all of the *.cpp files in the directory (and use makedepend to analyze #include directives to sort out header file dependencies)
1717 2011-04-01 18:45:15 <gasteve> does anyone have a link to a good writeup (or an example makefile) on the net somewhere that can show me the best practice to accomplish this?
1718 2011-04-01 18:45:57 kelvie_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1720 2011-04-01 18:47:11 <jgarzik> gasteve: use autotools (github/jgarzik/bitcoin.git#autotools)
1721 2011-04-01 18:47:28 <jgarzik> disclaimer: only works for bitcoind, not bitcoin (GUI), presently
1722 2011-04-01 18:47:33 TheKid has joined
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1725 2011-04-01 18:47:44 <gasteve> thx, I'll have a look
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1739 2011-04-01 19:17:56 hacim has joined
1740 2011-04-01 19:18:09 <mizerydearia> http://meta.witcoin.com/p/909/win-five-witcoins
1741 2011-04-01 19:19:32 EvanR has joined
1742 2011-04-01 19:20:26 ThrobbingPython has joined
1743 2011-04-01 19:20:29 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, odds of that paying off
1744 2011-04-01 19:20:34 <phantomcircuit> 1:100000
1745 2011-04-01 19:20:41 <mizerydearia> oh?
1746 2011-04-01 19:21:03 <BlueMatt> its april fools
1747 2011-04-01 19:21:08 <mizerydearia> oh?
1748 2011-04-01 19:22:49 <ducki2p> what is that?
1749 2011-04-01 19:23:02 <phantomcircuit> ducki2p, NICE TRY
1750 2011-04-01 19:23:09 <ThrobbingPython> a day for kids to try and fool each other
1751 2011-04-01 19:23:17 TheKid has joined
1752 2011-04-01 19:23:17 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
1753 2011-04-01 19:23:17 TheKid has joined
1754 2011-04-01 19:23:19 <ducki2p> why?
1755 2011-04-01 19:23:22 <ThrobbingPython> damn i fell 4 it
1756 2011-04-01 19:23:27 <ducki2p> :D
1757 2011-04-01 19:23:30 <ThrobbingPython> kick me pls
1758 2011-04-01 19:23:36 <ThrobbingPython> no wait
1759 2011-04-01 19:23:48 <ThrobbingPython> how do u turn bitcoin into real money?
1760 2011-04-01 19:23:51 * BlueMatt kicks ThrobbingPython
1761 2011-04-01 19:24:00 * ThrobbingPython deserves it
1762 2011-04-01 19:24:38 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, What did you fall for?
1763 2011-04-01 19:24:46 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1764 2011-04-01 19:24:55 <ThrobbingPython> uh...nothing
1765 2011-04-01 19:25:04 <ThrobbingPython> wrong chan
1766 2011-04-01 19:25:08 <BlueMatt> can we stop april fools trolling?
1767 2011-04-01 19:25:12 TD has joined
1768 2011-04-01 19:25:14 * ThrobbingPython coughs
1769 2011-04-01 19:25:17 <mizerydearia> BlueMatt, Are you indicating that I am trolling?
1770 2011-04-01 19:25:19 <ThrobbingPython> srsly tho
1771 2011-04-01 19:25:25 <ThrobbingPython> how do u turn bitcoin into real money?
1772 2011-04-01 19:25:31 <xelister> ThrobbingPython: sell it
1773 2011-04-01 19:25:35 <BlueMatt> mizerydearia: no, I would never do such a thing
1774 2011-04-01 19:25:52 <Kiba> bitcoin is fake money?
1775 2011-04-01 19:25:53 <mizerydearia> BlueMatt, well, my parents are old school trolls
1776 2011-04-01 19:25:54 <Kiba> :(
1777 2011-04-01 19:25:59 <ThrobbingPython> ok, so what do u process in order to generate bitcoin?
1778 2011-04-01 19:26:03 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1779 2011-04-01 19:26:18 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, How do you turn us dollar into real money?
1780 2011-04-01 19:26:30 <mizerydearia> Oh right, initiation of force + guns
1781 2011-04-01 19:26:33 dbitcoin has joined
1782 2011-04-01 19:26:36 <ThrobbingPython> i never sed usd :P
1783 2011-04-01 19:26:39 <mizerydearia> I did ^_^
1784 2011-04-01 19:26:53 <ThrobbingPython> u confoozing me
1785 2011-04-01 19:26:55 jeremias has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1786 2011-04-01 19:27:12 <ThrobbingPython> im half drunk and wanna c how to make bitcoins :P
1787 2011-04-01 19:27:21 <ThrobbingPython> or :)
1788 2011-04-01 19:27:24 <BlueMatt> maybe you should sober up
1789 2011-04-01 19:27:29 <ThrobbingPython> i dunno which emoticon
1790 2011-04-01 19:27:38 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, Yeah, I suggest sobering up. Here's a bottle of whiskey to help you.
1791 2011-04-01 19:27:39 <ThrobbingPython> im half sober too
1792 2011-04-01 19:28:05 <ThrobbingPython> so cmon, what must be processed to generate a bitcoin?
1793 2011-04-01 19:28:19 <BlueMatt> hashes
1794 2011-04-01 19:28:23 <BlueMatt> ie proof of work
1795 2011-04-01 19:28:27 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, http://www.weusecoins.com/
1796 2011-04-01 19:28:42 <ThrobbingPython> sounds good
1797 2011-04-01 19:29:00 <xelister> wow did you seen that??
1798 2011-04-01 19:29:01 <xelister> bitcoin.org forum Satoshi 01/04/11 [+] [-] Rules change MINING ILLEGAL [permalink] This announcement should be important to all users: after lenthy discussion we the Bitcoin Developers decided, that mining on GPU introduces unfair distribution and should not take place. As a result of that starting from bitcoin 3.23 gpu mining will be finally disabled, and code is added to prune existing blockchain removing GPU mined blocks. This may be a bit
1799 2011-04-01 19:29:03 <xelister> controversiall to users, so we decided to not fully purge this blocks yet, but instead to grant such blocks 5 instead 50 BTC, if mined before 2011-06-01.
1800 2011-04-01 19:29:31 <xelister> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=29331.0
1801 2011-04-01 19:29:41 <ArtForz> god, is it still april 1st?
1802 2011-04-01 19:30:03 <ArtForz> it gets kinda boring after the 2357834th aprils fools posting
1803 2011-04-01 19:30:12 finnomenon has left ()
1804 2011-04-01 19:30:21 <xelister> ArtForz: but I was the one successfully bidding an radeon 5950, got 2 offers
1805 2011-04-01 19:30:30 * BlueMatt agrees with ArtForz
1806 2011-04-01 19:30:43 * mizerydearia disagrees with ArtForz
1807 2011-04-01 19:30:47 <mizerydearia> april fools! I agree!
1808 2011-04-01 19:31:22 <ArtForz> awww, I wanted to disagree with myself :/
1809 2011-04-01 19:31:23 <Kiba> what did google do for April Fool?
1810 2011-04-01 19:31:27 <BlueMatt> xelister: two offers? last time I checked one person thought you made a typo and was hoping for a real card and the other only had like 5 btc and wouldnt have been able to pay
1811 2011-04-01 19:31:32 <mizerydearia> Kiba, lameness
1812 2011-04-01 19:31:32 Jr00t has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1813 2011-04-01 19:31:42 <mizerydearia> google motion I believe
1814 2011-04-01 19:31:45 <mizerydearia> or gmail motion
1815 2011-04-01 19:31:48 <ArtForz> yea
1816 2011-04-01 19:31:59 <Kiba> remember when gmail was released on April 1st?
1817 2011-04-01 19:32:05 <mizerydearia> xkcd's xk3d is interesting
1818 2011-04-01 19:32:08 <BlueMatt> yea pointless and the standard "people are actually the ones doing the suggestions"
1819 2011-04-01 19:32:32 <mizerydearia> gentoo.org, archlinux.org, etc... have a new distro they collaboratively designed
1820 2011-04-01 19:32:42 <mizerydearia> opensuse and debian involved too
1821 2011-04-01 19:32:42 <xelister> BlueMatt: heh I should had actually send the package (with a note "Sent on 2011-04-01 lol") :> but well the `customer` would needlessly wait for the card (even if I return payment) ;)
1822 2011-04-01 19:32:54 tg has joined
1823 2011-04-01 19:33:34 <BlueMatt> xelister: should have used a real address and not returned the money ;)
1824 2011-04-01 19:33:41 <BlueMatt> stupidity shouldnt be forgiven
1825 2011-04-01 19:34:17 slush has joined
1826 2011-04-01 19:34:54 <BlueMatt> ha I love /.'s new "change the article" feature
1827 2011-04-01 19:35:33 <xelister> =)
1828 2011-04-01 19:35:51 amiller has joined
1829 2011-04-01 19:37:00 <ThrobbingPython> so how does mining work?
1830 2011-04-01 19:37:55 <ArtForz> magic!
1831 2011-04-01 19:38:11 <BlueMatt> I eat a cookie and spit out a block
1832 2011-04-01 19:38:13 <mizerydearia> actually, it's slight of hand
1833 2011-04-01 19:38:14 <ThrobbingPython> but wait
1834 2011-04-01 19:38:16 <BlueMatt> speaking of which I want a cookie
1835 2011-04-01 19:38:18 ElectRo` has joined
1836 2011-04-01 19:38:22 <idnar> bitcoincraft
1837 2011-04-01 19:38:31 <ThrobbingPython> what if bitcoin fails? is all ur cash gone?
1838 2011-04-01 19:38:41 <BlueMatt> I get it all
1839 2011-04-01 19:38:41 <mizerydearia> BlueMatt, Come to witcoin.com and login and you will get a cookie
1840 2011-04-01 19:39:00 <Blitzboom> why u guys spend all ur energy on fake money???
1841 2011-04-01 19:39:13 <mizerydearia> Blitzboom, what do you consider real money?
1842 2011-04-01 19:39:15 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom be trollin
1843 2011-04-01 19:39:16 <ThrobbingPython> meh. all money is fake anyway
1844 2011-04-01 19:39:54 * nathan7 idly plays with his banhammer
1845 2011-04-01 19:39:59 <ThrobbingPython> rite
1846 2011-04-01 19:40:08 <nathan7> I like mentally fiddling with my banhammer
1847 2011-04-01 19:40:18 <Blitzboom> fascist!
1848 2011-04-01 19:40:42 * mizerydearia touches nathan7's banhammer
1849 2011-04-01 19:40:45 <ArtForz> paging dr freud
1850 2011-04-01 19:41:03 * nathan7 hits mizerydearia with a shovel
1851 2011-04-01 19:41:04 <nathan7> MY TOY
1852 2011-04-01 19:41:15 <BlueMatt> <Blitzboom> iâm even thinking about investing the most of my money
1853 2011-04-01 19:41:17 <BlueMatt> oh wait
1854 2011-04-01 19:41:31 <ThrobbingPython> so can i leave my pc running all day to process stuff and earn bitcoins?
1855 2011-04-01 19:41:39 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt wants to ban thoughts? :D
1856 2011-04-01 19:42:07 <ThrobbingPython> invest in petroleum companies :/
1857 2011-04-01 19:42:09 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: yea, who doesnt. I, for one, think communism is a great idea
1858 2011-04-01 19:42:13 <gasteve> I think that's what Blitzboom was asking...why do people spend all their energy on fake money? when they should be using bitcoins instead...lol
1859 2011-04-01 19:42:24 <Blitzboom> hahaha gasteve
1860 2011-04-01 19:42:28 <BlueMatt> ha good point gasteve
1861 2011-04-01 19:42:42 <ThrobbingPython> but what if bitcoins fail?
1862 2011-04-01 19:42:58 <Blitzboom> but what if the earth vanishes?
1863 2011-04-01 19:43:00 <BlueMatt> ThrobbingPython: then I dont get my cookie
1864 2011-04-01 19:43:03 <gasteve> what if we all get sucked into a black hole?
1865 2011-04-01 19:43:20 <ThrobbingPython> i mean like, werent there similar systems in the past that failed?
1866 2011-04-01 19:43:28 <gasteve> yep
1867 2011-04-01 19:43:39 * nathan7 pats gasteve
1868 2011-04-01 19:43:43 <gasteve> (not quite like bitcoin though)
1869 2011-04-01 19:43:49 <luke-jr> I think Gavin gets the award for best April Fools joke
1870 2011-04-01 19:43:49 <Blitzboom> tell me something similiar to bitcoin
1871 2011-04-01 19:44:05 <ThrobbingPython> ebucks?
1872 2011-04-01 19:44:08 <nathan7> luke-jr: linky?
1873 2011-04-01 19:44:16 <luke-jr> [15:39:38] <ThrobbingPython> so can i leave my pc running all day to process stuff and earn bitcoins?
1874 2011-04-01 19:44:18 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: No
1875 2011-04-01 19:44:22 <Blitzboom> i donât know about ebucks
1876 2011-04-01 19:44:24 <BlueMatt> nathan7: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5276.0
1877 2011-04-01 19:44:27 <ThrobbingPython> y not luke-jr?
1878 2011-04-01 19:44:34 <Blitzboom> but bitcoin is the first decentralized digital currency
1879 2011-04-01 19:44:48 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: unless you have a couple of very good Radeons, you won't get much
1880 2011-04-01 19:44:54 <jgarzik> tcatm, sipa: that bitcoinwatch network hash rate graph needs text labels
1881 2011-04-01 19:45:06 <gasteve> is there a page on the wiki that compares bitcoin to other digital cash systems?
1882 2011-04-01 19:45:08 <ThrobbingPython> how much is not much?
1883 2011-04-01 19:45:17 <gasteve> (if not, would be a good one to have)
1884 2011-04-01 19:45:43 <ThrobbingPython> and if im using gpgpu functions to process, shouldnt i be using cuda rather?
1885 2011-04-01 19:45:53 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: with a single 5970 (the best miner), you can get ,,(bc,calc 645000) for about a week more
1886 2011-04-01 19:45:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 645000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5 days, 7 hours, 35 minutes, and 21 seconds
1887 2011-04-01 19:45:57 <BlueMatt> cuda is a type of gpgpu
1888 2011-04-01 19:45:59 <Blitzboom> tcatm: news? awesome
1889 2011-04-01 19:46:04 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: no, CUDA is nvidia, and nvidia SUCKS
1890 2011-04-01 19:46:09 <BlueMatt> or implementation of*
1891 2011-04-01 19:46:17 <Blitzboom> are that the news from sgornick?
1892 2011-04-01 19:46:33 <Blitzboom> or is that independent?
1893 2011-04-01 19:46:49 <ThrobbingPython> wait. how much is 68978.89245792 in bitcoins?
1894 2011-04-01 19:46:56 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: that's difficulty, not bitcoins
1895 2011-04-01 19:46:58 <BlueMatt> ThrobbingPython: nvidia sucks for mining as it is missing one or two key instructions (or specifically is slower on)
1896 2011-04-01 19:47:05 <ThrobbingPython> ahh ok
1897 2011-04-01 19:47:08 <Blitzboom> i thought ThrobbingPython was trolling
1898 2011-04-01 19:47:11 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: so with two 5970s, you can get about $80 worth of bitcoins in the next week.
1899 2011-04-01 19:47:15 <ThrobbingPython> im not
1900 2011-04-01 19:47:17 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: that number goes down every 2 weeks
1901 2011-04-01 19:47:20 <gasteve> I love that 404 page on github (Nintendo 3DS has nothing on it)
1902 2011-04-01 19:47:23 <ThrobbingPython> oh wow!!!
1903 2011-04-01 19:47:28 <Blitzboom> ThrobbingPython: you should read up about bitcoin, i recommen
1904 2011-04-01 19:47:34 <ThrobbingPython> and on a single 5770??
1905 2011-04-01 19:47:35 <Blitzboom> d http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-decentralized-currency/
1906 2011-04-01 19:47:37 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: half of that
1907 2011-04-01 19:47:43 <Blitzboom> listen to this, itâs the best explanation so far
1908 2011-04-01 19:47:49 <ThrobbingPython> Blitzboom i read the main page and a bit
1909 2011-04-01 19:47:58 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: which main page?
1910 2011-04-01 19:48:08 <ThrobbingPython> http://www.weusecoins.com/getting-started.php
1911 2011-04-01 19:48:10 <ThrobbingPython> that 1
1912 2011-04-01 19:48:31 <ThrobbingPython> so what data must u process anyway?
1913 2011-04-01 19:48:43 <luke-jr> someone needs to smack the guy who put "official" on that page -.-
1914 2011-04-01 19:49:02 <Blitzboom> yeah, should be "original"
1915 2011-04-01 19:49:04 <luke-jr> and also fix the download link
1916 2011-04-01 19:49:22 <ArtForz> lol, actually thats a neat one: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10624
1917 2011-04-01 19:49:35 <gasteve> that page also points to mybitcoin.co m ...aren't people a bit concerned by that website in that no one knows who's running it
1918 2011-04-01 19:49:35 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: really, it should be "A Bitcoin client isâ¦" "Simple download and install one."
1919 2011-04-01 19:49:36 <gasteve> ?
1920 2011-04-01 19:50:16 <nathan7> gasteve: concerning the 3D thing, check xkcd
1921 2011-04-01 19:50:43 <ThrobbingPython> so what data must u process to make bitcoins?
1922 2011-04-01 19:51:02 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: it's a lottery
1923 2011-04-01 19:51:08 <gasteve> nathan7: nice!
1924 2011-04-01 19:51:09 <mizerydearia> What would you do for a klondyke bar?
1925 2011-04-01 19:51:21 <ThrobbingPython> how do u mean a lottery?
1926 2011-04-01 19:51:30 <mizerydearia> What would you do for five witcoins?
1927 2011-04-01 19:51:41 <nathan7> gasteve: (=
1928 2011-04-01 19:51:45 * ThrobbingPython shrugs
1929 2011-04-01 19:51:58 <nathan7> I'd rather have silver than gold
1930 2011-04-01 19:52:16 <ThrobbingPython> meh. both silver n gold r peaking
1931 2011-04-01 19:52:45 <nathan7> Yeah.
1932 2011-04-01 19:52:52 <nathan7> And Al is up high lately too
1933 2011-04-01 19:52:53 <TD> you process pending transactions
1934 2011-04-01 19:53:11 * nathan7 would love to stab the people who are speculating with aluminium in the face
1935 2011-04-01 19:53:12 <TD> to create a block. once you create a block you transmit it to the network, and everyone else accepts it
1936 2011-04-01 19:53:24 <ThrobbingPython> what kind of transactions?
1937 2011-04-01 19:53:26 <TD> they begin building their next block on yours
1938 2011-04-01 19:53:35 <mizerydearia> first person to post a bitcoin address in channel gets absolutely nothing from me. (an april fools joke?)
1939 2011-04-01 19:53:50 <TD> transactions that say "here are some coins sent to my addresses, and i'm sending them to these addresses <x,y,z>"
1940 2011-04-01 19:54:06 <TD> transactions just move value from one place to another
1941 2011-04-01 19:54:07 <luke-jr> 19nwqgD7MiBcpZg2Ku3ru395vGUxFy4aGB
1942 2011-04-01 19:54:32 <gasteve> to believe silver and gold are peaking, I think one would have to believe the dollar is bottoming
1943 2011-04-01 19:54:35 <ThrobbingPython> hm. im still a lil conused
1944 2011-04-01 19:54:43 <TD> yes. it's a confusing system.
1945 2011-04-01 19:55:12 <TD> the point is, everyone agrees on who owns what coins. the mining is how the network arrives at an agreement on which order things happened
1946 2011-04-01 19:55:13 <Blitzboom> not really
1947 2011-04-01 19:55:25 <Blitzboom> itâs just a system we arenât familiar with
1948 2011-04-01 19:55:42 <ThrobbingPython> ok. so what is the source of the data that needs to be processed?
1949 2011-04-01 19:55:53 <gasteve> (btw, silver is still in backwardation even after this extreme move ...if gold follows it into backwardation, it could be a very bad sign for the dollar)
1950 2011-04-01 19:56:00 <TD> people. whenever you send a payment, that transaction is broadcast
1951 2011-04-01 19:56:03 <TD> it's that data that is processed
1952 2011-04-01 19:56:15 <mizerydearia> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwatjHcV1ZM
1953 2011-04-01 19:56:17 knotwork has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1954 2011-04-01 19:56:39 <ThrobbingPython> but what organisation needs this data processed?
1955 2011-04-01 19:56:43 <ThrobbingPython> seti?
1956 2011-04-01 19:56:48 <Blitzboom> there is no organisation
1957 2011-04-01 19:56:56 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1958 2011-04-01 19:56:56 <mizerydearia> disorganization
1959 2011-04-01 19:57:02 <Blitzboom> itâs decentralized and the sole purpose is to verify transactions
1960 2011-04-01 19:57:08 * nathan7 hops around
1961 2011-04-01 19:57:17 <mizerydearia> ooh, easter bunny
1962 2011-04-01 19:57:29 <ThrobbingPython> wait. so u verify transactions in order to earn bitcoins?
1963 2011-04-01 19:57:44 <TD> kind of
1964 2011-04-01 19:58:06 <TD> you don't have to mine. you can verify transactions without mining yourself. but *some* people have to mine, otherwise the system doesn't work
1965 2011-04-01 19:58:28 <TD> miners earn coins either by creating them, or by collecting fees
1966 2011-04-01 19:58:31 <ThrobbingPython> so wont the prices of things in bitcoins inflate as more and more ppl process transactions?
1967 2011-04-01 19:58:47 <Blitzboom> no
1968 2011-04-01 19:58:55 <Blitzboom> every ten minutes approximately, a block is created
1969 2011-04-01 19:59:02 <Blitzboom> a block contains all transactions since the last block
1970 2011-04-01 19:59:07 <TD> the more people that mine, the less your chance of finding a block
1971 2011-04-01 19:59:15 <TD> there's only ever a fixed amount of coins up for grabs
1972 2011-04-01 19:59:16 <Blitzboom> doesnât metter wether itâs 2 transactions or 7000
1973 2011-04-01 19:59:26 <TD> the more people that try to get them, the harder it gets. that's why it was said earlier "it's a lottery"
1974 2011-04-01 19:59:28 <Blitzboom> you only get 50 coins for a block plus fees
1975 2011-04-01 19:59:35 <ThrobbingPython> oic
1976 2011-04-01 20:00:00 <ThrobbingPython> how much is 50 coins in 'real' money?
1977 2011-04-01 20:00:10 <Blitzboom> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
1978 2011-04-01 20:00:11 <gasteve> you mean gold?
1979 2011-04-01 20:00:17 <nanotube> ThrobbingPython: about 40 usd, currently.
1980 2011-04-01 20:00:22 <ThrobbingPython> gold/whatever
1981 2011-04-01 20:00:27 <luke-jr> nanotube: he said real money
1982 2011-04-01 20:00:32 <nanotube> luke-jr: oh sorry.
1983 2011-04-01 20:00:35 <Blitzboom> lol
1984 2011-04-01 20:00:38 <nanotube> about .8 gram of gold
1985 2011-04-01 20:00:40 <nanotube> :)
1986 2011-04-01 20:00:43 <ThrobbingPython> ooo
1987 2011-04-01 20:00:53 <mizerydearia> federal reserve accepts bitcoins? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Donation-accepting_organizations_and_projects
1988 2011-04-01 20:01:10 glassresistor has joined
1989 2011-04-01 20:01:11 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1990 2011-04-01 20:01:11 glassresistor has joined
1991 2011-04-01 20:01:27 <ThrobbingPython> what if im not in usa? can i still use bitcoins?
1992 2011-04-01 20:01:45 <luke-jr> wtf does USA have to do with bitcoin
1993 2011-04-01 20:01:50 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, of course
1994 2011-04-01 20:01:51 <Blitzboom> you can use it globally
1995 2011-04-01 20:01:57 <Blitzboom> everywhere where you have internet access
1996 2011-04-01 20:02:02 gjs278 has joined
1997 2011-04-01 20:02:38 <ThrobbingPython> ok, so assuming i have bitcoins and wanna change it to cash, how is that done?
1998 2011-04-01 20:02:56 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, exchange market
1999 2011-04-01 20:03:00 <gasteve> you find someone to trade with
2000 2011-04-01 20:03:12 <mizerydearia> see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchange
2001 2011-04-01 20:03:16 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2002 2011-04-01 20:03:17 <mizerydearia> or join #bitcoin-otc
2003 2011-04-01 20:03:24 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: you find someone who wants to buy them
2004 2011-04-01 20:03:34 <ThrobbingPython> is it difficult to find ppl that wanna buy?
2005 2011-04-01 20:03:34 <xelister> mizerydearia: lól
2006 2011-04-01 20:03:39 Lartza has quit (Quit: Lähdössä)
2007 2011-04-01 20:03:46 <Blitzboom> ThrobbingPython: ok, so assuming i have gold and wanna change it to cash, how is that done?
2008 2011-04-01 20:03:47 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, nope, join #bitcoin-otc
2009 2011-04-01 20:03:59 <Blitzboom> go to exchange markets or trade with individuals
2010 2011-04-01 20:04:10 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2011 2011-04-01 20:04:36 <ThrobbingPython> hm
2012 2011-04-01 20:04:41 <mizerydearia> ThrobbingPython, To join the channel type /join #bitcoin-otc
2013 2011-04-01 20:04:42 <ThrobbingPython> i gotta get into this
2014 2011-04-01 20:04:46 ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015 2011-04-01 20:04:52 <TD> there's also a network of local dealers
2016 2011-04-01 20:05:18 <gasteve> ThrobbingPython: you can see the order book on mtgox here: https://mtgox.com/trade/history (click on "depth of market")
2017 2011-04-01 20:05:39 <ThrobbingPython> ty!
2018 2011-04-01 20:06:11 <TD> see http://tradebitcoin.com/
2019 2011-04-01 20:06:28 <ThrobbingPython> cool thanks! :)
2020 2011-04-01 20:07:50 <luke-jr> TD: it's broken :<
2021 2011-04-01 20:08:03 <TD> seems to work for me
2022 2011-04-01 20:08:08 <xelister> how to get IPs from DNS seeding?
2023 2011-04-01 20:08:09 <luke-jr> TD: zoom out
2024 2011-04-01 20:08:17 <luke-jr> it only has the east USA
2025 2011-04-01 20:08:26 <gasteve> yeah, seems it's missing a lot of pegs
2026 2011-04-01 20:08:48 <TD> search for a place
2027 2011-04-01 20:08:48 <xelister> oh man this sucks
2028 2011-04-01 20:08:51 <TD> it only loads some of the pegs
2029 2011-04-01 20:08:57 <TD> i see people in europe when i load the map
2030 2011-04-01 20:09:01 <xelister> why I need linux genuine advantage to trade more then 200 BTC? this new rules are annoying.
2031 2011-04-01 20:09:14 <phantomcircuit> god my desktop is totally screwed
2032 2011-04-01 20:09:16 <luke-jr> TD: that's broken
2033 2011-04-01 20:09:18 <phantomcircuit> the gcc install is busted
2034 2011-04-01 20:09:42 * nathan7 giggles at xelister
2035 2011-04-01 20:09:51 kiba has joined
2036 2011-04-01 20:10:00 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2037 2011-04-01 20:10:18 <phantomcircuit> xelister, http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/
2038 2011-04-01 20:10:23 <phantomcircuit> it's so easy to install!
2039 2011-04-01 20:10:50 <xelister> <_<
2040 2011-04-01 20:11:12 <phantomcircuit> bet you didn't think that existed huh
2041 2011-04-01 20:11:24 <phantomcircuit> there's actually a kernel module that does the same thing iirc
2042 2011-04-01 20:11:41 RBecker has joined
2043 2011-04-01 20:12:57 <phantomcircuit> DAY AND NIGHT
2044 2011-04-01 20:13:04 <phantomcircuit> I TOSS AND TURN AND SOMETHINGTHInG
2045 2011-04-01 20:13:05 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: lol nice site! :)
2046 2011-04-01 20:13:18 tg has joined
2047 2011-04-01 20:13:24 <phantomcircuit> rofl
2048 2011-04-01 20:13:35 <phantomcircuit> libstdc++.6.so cannot be found on my desktop
2049 2011-04-01 20:13:37 <phantomcircuit> massive failure
2050 2011-04-01 20:13:49 <xelister> phantomcircuit: what did you did to your computer, raped it with a rake?
2051 2011-04-01 20:14:00 <xelister> tried to mix 3 debian versions?
2052 2011-04-01 20:14:02 <phantomcircuit> tg, why set ipv6 addr manually like that?
2053 2011-04-01 20:14:07 <xelister> installed gnu hurd?
2054 2011-04-01 20:14:16 <phantomcircuit> xelister, the power died halfway through installing a new version of glibc
2055 2011-04-01 20:14:29 * phantomcircuit shakes fist at PG&E
2056 2011-04-01 20:14:29 <xelister> phantomcircuit: lol
2057 2011-04-01 20:14:35 <xelister> phantomcircuit: you're bonned :P
2058 2011-04-01 20:14:42 <ThrobbingPython> must ur pc be online 24/7 to process data for bitcoins?
2059 2011-04-01 20:14:51 <xelister> phantomcircuit: hmm perhaps use livecd to fix?
2060 2011-04-01 20:14:54 <BlueMatt> ThrobbingPython: god man rtfm
2061 2011-04-01 20:14:54 <xelister> ThrobbingPython: nope
2062 2011-04-01 20:15:03 <ThrobbingPython> cool thanks
2063 2011-04-01 20:15:06 <phantomcircuit> xelister, yeah ill be able to fix it, no problem
2064 2011-04-01 20:15:21 <phantomcircuit> xelister, the stuff i need to fix it is all statically linked
2065 2011-04-01 20:15:27 <phantomcircuit> PREPARATION FUCK YEAH
2066 2011-04-01 20:15:53 <phantomcircuit> although i should really just invest in a 5 minute ups
2067 2011-04-01 20:16:25 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2068 2011-04-01 20:16:27 <phantomcircuit> oh snap i bet you could design a power supply that incorporated a like 30 second UPS
2069 2011-04-01 20:16:37 <phantomcircuit> that would be enough for most systems to sync the disk and shutdown
2070 2011-04-01 20:16:55 TD has joined
2071 2011-04-01 20:17:29 ElectRo` has joined
2072 2011-04-01 20:17:31 <ThrobbingPython> if there are not bitcoin users in my area, how can i profit from bitcoin?
2073 2011-04-01 20:17:35 <ThrobbingPython> no*
2074 2011-04-01 20:17:44 <ThrobbingPython> or change it into cash
2075 2011-04-01 20:17:47 <phantomcircuit> are you serious
2076 2011-04-01 20:17:53 <ThrobbingPython> yes
2077 2011-04-01 20:18:03 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: that's not the point.
2078 2011-04-01 20:18:11 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: you profit from doing work.
2079 2011-04-01 20:18:12 <ThrobbingPython> i dont see any bitcoin icons on the map on the link
2080 2011-04-01 20:18:33 <ThrobbingPython> sure, but i gotta be able to spend the coins too
2081 2011-04-01 20:18:39 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: you do work, I pay you. you now have bitcoins. now you can pay someone else those bitcoins and they do work for you
2082 2011-04-01 20:19:32 <ThrobbingPython> but what if i wanna change the bitcoins to 'real' money and theres no one in my area thatll accept bitcoins?
2083 2011-04-01 20:20:17 <phantomcircuit> ThrobbingPython, mtgox.com
2084 2011-04-01 20:20:24 <ThrobbingPython> cool
2085 2011-04-01 20:21:05 <gasteve> Coinpal really needs to offer to buy bitcoins (in addition to selling)
2086 2011-04-01 20:21:06 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: cash isn't real
2087 2011-04-01 20:21:18 <xelister> RANDOM QUESTION OF TODAY
2088 2011-04-01 20:21:24 <xelister> are people in England idiots
2089 2011-04-01 20:21:41 <phantomcircuit> RANDOM ANSWER OF TODAY
2090 2011-04-01 20:21:42 <phantomcircuit> yes
2091 2011-04-01 20:21:47 <xelister> rumor is, people in London hire people for tasks like literally "screw in/replace light bulb"
2092 2011-04-01 20:21:51 <gasteve> (or, mtgox should have a web store front to buy or sell bitcoins via paypal...or coinpal and mtgox should link up)
2093 2011-04-01 20:22:15 <xelister> a guy in his home calling "electrician" to just replace a light bulb... is this true O_o ? wt
2094 2011-04-01 20:22:16 <xelister> wtf
2095 2011-04-01 20:22:41 <ThrobbingPython> luke-jr cash buy food which is real. bitcoins cant buy me food
2096 2011-04-01 20:22:50 <xelister> ThrobbingPython: they can
2097 2011-04-01 20:22:53 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: why not? I buy food with bitcoins
2098 2011-04-01 20:22:54 <Blitzboom> gasteve: thatâs what coincard is for
2099 2011-04-01 20:23:02 <luke-jr> like pizza
2100 2011-04-01 20:23:03 <xelister> ThrobbingPython: I will give you sandwitches, pizzas and most other food for BTC
2101 2011-04-01 20:23:06 <Blitzboom> http://coincard.ndrix.com/
2102 2011-04-01 20:23:09 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, what are the hurdles to automated purchasing of bitcoins though paypal?
2103 2011-04-01 20:23:10 <xelister> ThrobbingPython: I deliver in Poland though.
2104 2011-04-01 20:23:15 <ThrobbingPython> dude i live in south africa. i cant buy food with bitcoins
2105 2011-04-01 20:23:48 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: surely you do work for someone who has food?
2106 2011-04-01 20:23:53 <xelister> ThrobbingPython: I would sell you food in Africa for BTC, if you would order bigger amount so it is worth setting all up, like for 300 USD over a month or something
2107 2011-04-01 20:23:54 <gasteve> Blitzboom: but a lot of people would prefer credits to their paypal accounts
2108 2011-04-01 20:24:00 <luke-jr> convince them to let you buy food, and you let them pay you in bitcoin
2109 2011-04-01 20:24:16 <Blitzboom> gasteve: you can choose paypal there
2110 2011-04-01 20:24:20 <ThrobbingPython> loz thatll never happen
2111 2011-04-01 20:24:29 <luke-jr> ThrobbingPython: btw, do they have Dominos in South Africa?
2112 2011-04-01 20:24:35 <xelister> LHC, CERN Has Found the Hugs Boson <-- april's ?
2113 2011-04-01 20:24:40 <gasteve> oh...that's not very clear on the front page
2114 2011-04-01 20:24:41 <phantomcircuit> xelister, yes
2115 2011-04-01 20:24:43 <xelister> ah, lol, edit articles
2116 2011-04-01 20:24:49 <phantomcircuit> xelister, jesus your gullible
2117 2011-04-01 20:25:10 <ThrobbingPython> na. havent seen dominoes here
2118 2011-04-01 20:25:32 <ThrobbingPython> its pizza, rite?
2119 2011-04-01 20:25:36 <luke-jr> yeah
2120 2011-04-01 20:25:41 <xelister> hugs boson haha
2121 2011-04-01 20:25:47 <xelister> phantomcircuit: I read first 3 words
2122 2011-04-01 20:25:52 <gasteve> so, then it needs to be wrapped up in a single site...with the BTC buy and SELL prices (with all fees included) right there on the front page and links to buy and sell BTC
2123 2011-04-01 20:26:06 n00bie has joined
2124 2011-04-01 20:27:13 <luke-jr> I bought baby butt wipes with bitcoin
2125 2011-04-01 20:27:53 <ThrobbingPython> can u easily buy precious metals with bitcoin?
2126 2011-04-01 20:27:58 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i know people who dont use toilet paper
2127 2011-04-01 20:28:09 <phantomcircuit> they swear wipinng your ass with baby wipes is like being royalty
2128 2011-04-01 20:28:18 <phantomcircuit> wiping*
2129 2011-04-01 20:28:45 <luke-jr> ,,,,,,,
2130 2011-04-01 20:28:45 <gribble> Error: ",,,,," is not a valid command.
2131 2011-04-01 20:28:49 <luke-jr> gribble: stfu
2132 2011-04-01 20:30:19 <phantomcircuit> lol
2133 2011-04-01 20:35:09 <ThrobbingPython> At the moment (December 2010) it would take a year on average to generate 50 coins with a typical PC
2134 2011-04-01 20:35:12 <ThrobbingPython> wth....
2135 2011-04-01 20:35:30 timeout has joined
2136 2011-04-01 20:35:33 <ThrobbingPython> thats only 40usd per anum!
2137 2011-04-01 20:35:34 <luke-jr> what?
2138 2011-04-01 20:35:38 <luke-jr> that's way outdated
2139 2011-04-01 20:35:41 <ThrobbingPython> that^
2140 2011-04-01 20:35:47 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 14000
2141 2011-04-01 20:35:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 34 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 12 minutes, and 57 seconds
2142 2011-04-01 20:35:51 taco_the_paco has quit (Disconnected by services)
2143 2011-04-01 20:35:56 <luke-jr> o rly
2144 2011-04-01 20:35:57 timeout is now known as taco_the_paco
2145 2011-04-01 20:35:59 <Blitzboom> 14k? thatâs an i5
2146 2011-04-01 20:36:02 <luke-jr> I thought it took years now
2147 2011-04-01 20:36:06 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
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2149 2011-04-01 20:36:08 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,calc 3000
2150 2011-04-01 20:36:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 3 years, 6 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 40 minutes, and 29 seconds
2151 2011-04-01 20:36:14 <Blitzboom> that is more realistic, luke-jr
2152 2011-04-01 20:36:19 <luke-jr> 3000 isn't typical, is it?
2153 2011-04-01 20:36:28 <Blitzboom> sure it is. my quadcore has 5000
2154 2011-04-01 20:36:36 <Blitzboom> most people are on shitty laptops
2155 2011-04-01 20:36:44 <luke-jr> o
2156 2011-04-01 20:36:45 <luke-jr> true
2157 2011-04-01 20:37:03 <luke-jr> my handheld PC gets ,,(bc,calc 200) kH/s :p
2158 2011-04-01 20:37:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 46 years, 50 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes, and 16 seconds
2159 2011-04-01 20:37:17 <Blitzboom> lol, 46 years
2160 2011-04-01 20:37:41 <luke-jr> also, it would destroy itself
2161 2011-04-01 20:37:46 <luke-jr> it's factory-overclocked <.<
2162 2011-04-01 20:38:44 <luke-jr> expected lifetime, if I keep the CPU busy, is under a year
2163 2011-04-01 20:38:46 <luke-jr> lulz
2164 2011-04-01 20:41:30 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2165 2011-04-01 20:45:55 <ThrobbingPython> gnite everyone!
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2188 2011-04-01 21:28:44 <luke-jr> $*#&$)(
2189 2011-04-01 21:28:48 <luke-jr> more bugs -.-
2190 2011-04-01 21:29:53 <gjs278> I can do 24mh/s on an overclocked 980x... only $999 and you can too
2191 2011-04-01 21:31:26 <taco_the_paco> gjs278, get a good gpu and run the gpu client :p
2192 2011-04-01 21:31:50 <gjs278> haha yeah I do
2193 2011-04-01 21:32:54 <BlueMatt> meh my 920 gets around 16-19 for like 800$ less
2194 2011-04-01 21:33:37 rlifchitz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2195 2011-04-01 21:35:45 bitcoiner has joined
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2197 2011-04-01 21:46:10 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, sounds like it's not profitable from a purely electricity perspective
2198 2011-04-01 21:46:21 <gjs278> it uses 130w under load so definitely not
2199 2011-04-01 21:46:30 <phantomcircuit> lol
2200 2011-04-01 21:46:35 rlifchitz has joined
2201 2011-04-01 21:46:50 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * ree3657389765 spesmilo/cashier.py: allow cashier debug log to grow indefinitely in debug mode (!) http://tinyurl.com/3qcfo84
2202 2011-04-01 21:47:22 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, <3 urls
2203 2011-04-01 21:47:29 <phantomcircuit> also
2204 2011-04-01 21:47:33 <phantomcircuit> lol @ bug
2205 2011-04-01 21:47:56 <luke-jr> I just made my client use infinite RAM -.-
2206 2011-04-01 21:48:01 <luke-jr> (with --debug)
2207 2011-04-01 21:48:03 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what protocol does spesmilo use to communicate with bitcoind
2208 2011-04-01 21:48:05 <phantomcircuit> json rpc?
2209 2011-04-01 21:48:10 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: JSON-RPC is all bitcoind supports
2210 2011-04-01 21:48:16 <luke-jr> that's WHY it's so buggy
2211 2011-04-01 21:48:31 <phantomcircuit> you could also be reading the bdb files
2212 2011-04-01 21:48:34 <luke-jr> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo/blobs/master/cashier.py#line273
2213 2011-04-01 21:48:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what would you propose instead
2214 2011-04-01 21:48:40 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that would be evil
2215 2011-04-01 21:48:46 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol#DRAFT_0
2216 2011-04-01 21:50:52 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, SPDY strikes me as a massive hack
2217 2011-04-01 21:51:06 <phantomcircuit> multiplexing steams over tcp seems a bit uh hackish
2218 2011-04-01 21:52:19 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: so stick to HTTP. real clients need more complex stuff
2219 2011-04-01 21:52:24 <phantomcircuit> although X-Subresources seems like a good idea
2220 2011-04-01 21:52:43 <luke-jr> nobody wants multiple connections for a UI :P
2221 2011-04-01 21:52:56 <luke-jr> SPDY might not be the answer, but it's the best I've found so far
2222 2011-04-01 21:53:38 <phantomcircuit> eh
2223 2011-04-01 21:56:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: what makes spdy so much more advantageous to http to make it worth it?
2224 2011-04-01 21:56:51 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, it's multiplexed http over tcp with compression
2225 2011-04-01 21:57:04 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: and why does bitcoin need that?
2226 2011-04-01 21:57:09 <phantomcircuit> afaict most of their performance gains come from compressing the requests below the average MTU
2227 2011-04-01 21:57:33 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: so...not a huge advantage for bitcoin?
2228 2011-04-01 21:58:21 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, not really unless you're really worried about using a new connection if one is stalled and you have a new request
2229 2011-04-01 21:58:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so, why spdy? does http not work just fine?
2230 2011-04-01 21:58:53 <phantomcircuit> also /. isn't funny
2231 2011-04-01 21:58:56 <phantomcircuit> they should stop trying
2232 2011-04-01 21:59:11 <BlueMatt> meh I find it somewhat comical
2233 2011-04-01 21:59:21 <BlueMatt> though it doesnt really work that well on a "news" site like /.
2234 2011-04-01 21:59:34 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2235 2011-04-01 22:01:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: should miner not be a part of "read-only"? I disagree that miners can create new addresses and I think anyone should be able to submit valid blocks to my server ;)
2236 2011-04-01 22:01:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: or maybe miners dont have access to any addressing?
2237 2011-04-01 22:11:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's much faster, and uses less bandwidth.
2238 2011-04-01 22:11:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: establishing a new connection for every request is slow, and inefficient
2239 2011-04-01 22:13:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why not let miners create addresses? and you can always give "Miner" access to any arbitrary person
2240 2011-04-01 22:14:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: "Cooperative mining" in the Requirements section explains why one might want "Miners" to generate addresses
2241 2011-04-01 22:14:55 <luke-jr> IMO, it makes sense to let *anyone* generate addresses, so they can pay you :P
2242 2011-04-01 22:16:17 f3n has joined
2243 2011-04-01 22:17:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why not simply http with persistent connections? how many parallel requests do you need?
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2245 2011-04-01 22:18:29 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, potentially a lot actually
2246 2011-04-01 22:19:50 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: case?
2247 2011-04-01 22:20:14 <phantomcircuit> listing transactions and then switch to doing something else
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2249 2011-04-01 22:21:41 <BlueMatt> mmm, still dont think it will provide any great improvements in speed, plus complications in implementation is never good
2250 2011-04-01 22:21:58 <BlueMatt> I think wallet proto is cool, but we need it to be simple to implement
2251 2011-04-01 22:22:00 <BlueMatt> and use
2252 2011-04-01 22:22:02 npouillard has joined
2253 2011-04-01 22:22:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, can be implemented in parallel
2254 2011-04-01 22:22:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: for a user interface, at least 2
2255 2011-04-01 22:22:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I guess we have differing opinions on what a "miner" is. IMHO a miner is simply a mining client and should be restricted to just what a miner needs (block headers)
2256 2011-04-01 22:22:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why give it more?
2257 2011-04-01 22:22:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the complications are only needed for complicated things. JSON-RPC type things are even simpler.
2258 2011-04-01 22:23:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: a miner would only need HTTP, I agree
2259 2011-04-01 22:23:53 <luke-jr> for example, the JSON-RPC 'getbalance' would simply be a normal HTTP GET request to http://localhost:port/balance
2260 2011-04-01 22:24:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: SPDY is mainly for UIs which require long-lasting requests
2261 2011-04-01 22:24:27 <BlueMatt> ok
2262 2011-04-01 22:24:36 <luke-jr> for example, to be notified about new transactions/blocks in realtime
2263 2011-04-01 22:24:49 <luke-jr> while also being able to multiplex a send
2264 2011-04-01 22:25:00 <BlueMatt> I just think it should be easy to implement every piece of it, and IMHO SPDY can improve some things but it doesnt nearly provide the huge improvement needed for it to be worth making
2265 2011-04-01 22:25:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: FYI, Google uses SPDY for Chrome<->Google browsing
2266 2011-04-01 22:26:50 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2267 2011-04-01 22:26:54 <luke-jr> in any case, it is optional, soâ¦
2268 2011-04-01 22:27:10 <luke-jr> real-world results will tell if it's useful or desired
2269 2011-04-01 22:30:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: basically, I wanted to have a single protocol that is easy for simple tasks, yet able to scale up to complex things (UIs) cleanly
2270 2011-04-01 22:31:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: defining HTTP-like request semantics, and suggesting SPDY for parallel requests, achieves that without too much lock-in to a specific protocol
2271 2011-04-01 22:33:27 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, well I just think its a inhibitor to servers implementing this protocol (remember mybitcoin/etc might not want people to have direct access to bitcoind)
2272 2011-04-01 22:33:53 <BlueMatt> so it needs to be easy to implement on both sides (the server being required to implement the ENTIRE protocol not just parts)
2273 2011-04-01 22:34:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the server isn't required to implement all of it
2274 2011-04-01 22:34:52 <luke-jr> I *am* concerned that the existing SPDY lib seems to be larger than bitcoind, though
2275 2011-04-01 22:35:47 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,cald 21420000 [bc,estimate]
2276 2011-04-01 22:35:48 <gribble> Error: "bc,cald" is not a valid command.
2277 2011-04-01 22:35:52 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calcd 21420000 [bc,estimate]
2278 2011-04-01 22:35:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 21420000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 79139.52017689, is 4 hours, 24 minutes, and 28 seconds
2279 2011-04-01 22:36:18 octarine has joined
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2281 2011-04-01 22:36:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: but something like mybitcoin would probably benefit the most from SPDY support
2282 2011-04-01 22:39:16 jackSmith has joined
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2291 2011-04-01 22:57:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: true, but only if the majority of clients are making many paralell requests which IMHO just isnt as realistic as you think
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2294 2011-04-01 22:59:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: any UI needs parallel requests.
2295 2011-04-01 23:00:58 james has joined
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2298 2011-04-01 23:05:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why is there not a listtransactions command which gives the ui everything it needs to know
2299 2011-04-01 23:05:19 <BlueMatt> ...oh wait
2300 2011-04-01 23:05:22 <BlueMatt> no polling nvm
2301 2011-04-01 23:05:39 <BlueMatt> still that means one maybe two requests at the same time
2302 2011-04-01 23:07:46 <luke-jr> Data search is the equivalent
2303 2011-04-01 23:08:02 <luke-jr> you just search for transactions matching a certain criteria
2304 2011-04-01 23:08:15 RBecker has joined
2305 2011-04-01 23:10:43 <xelister> how to get IPs or peers, eg from some DNS or something
2306 2011-04-01 23:11:47 giner has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2307 2011-04-01 23:12:18 <luke-jr> xelister: not sure âº
2308 2011-04-01 23:14:28 <phantomcircuit> xelister, you want peers?
2309 2011-04-01 23:14:31 <phantomcircuit> I GOT YO PEERS
2310 2011-04-01 23:14:47 <phantomcircuit> new or old
2311 2011-04-01 23:15:29 lfm has joined
2312 2011-04-01 23:17:30 <xelister> phantomcircuit: what is the list?
2313 2011-04-01 23:17:36 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2314 2011-04-01 23:17:44 <phantomcircuit> xelister, you mean how does the client bootstrap?
2315 2011-04-01 23:17:52 <phantomcircuit> currently it joins an irc channel and uses that
2316 2011-04-01 23:18:05 <xelister> phantomcircuit: it fails
2317 2011-04-01 23:18:06 <xelister> for me
2318 2011-04-01 23:18:06 <phantomcircuit> also the p2p protocol has a mechanism for requesting additional peers
2319 2011-04-01 23:18:12 <xelister> so I would like to improve it somehow
2320 2011-04-01 23:18:19 <phantomcircuit> so you just need a couple of static peers
2321 2011-04-01 23:18:25 <phantomcircuit> iirc bitcoin -addnode=
2322 2011-04-01 23:18:28 <lfm> if irc fails it may take 30 min or more to fail over
2323 2011-04-01 23:18:29 <phantomcircuit> something like that
2324 2011-04-01 23:20:59 <xelister> phantomcircuit: no shit
2325 2011-04-01 23:21:03 <xelister> phantomcircuit: I know
2326 2011-04-01 23:21:10 <xelister> question is, how to get say 30 addresses
2327 2011-04-01 23:21:32 <lfm> open incomming connects?
2328 2011-04-01 23:21:38 <xelister> yeap
2329 2011-04-01 23:21:42 <xelister> was getting 50 connections
2330 2011-04-01 23:21:44 <xelister> till last week
2331 2011-04-01 23:21:52 <xelister> then it broken somehow and now Im getting just 4
2332 2011-04-01 23:22:00 <xelister> nothing changed on my side. Some bug imo
2333 2011-04-01 23:22:01 <lfm> ya it takes longer to build up past the basic 8
2334 2011-04-01 23:22:07 <xelister> running for 24+ days
2335 2011-04-01 23:22:12 <xelister> running for 24+ hours
2336 2011-04-01 23:22:13 <phantomcircuit> xelister, most of the peers should be from getaddr requests on the p2p overlay
2337 2011-04-01 23:22:27 <phantomcircuit> xelister, you have a dynamic ip?
2338 2011-04-01 23:22:39 <xelister> no
2339 2011-04-01 23:22:48 <xelister> all is perfectly configured
2340 2011-04-01 23:22:53 <xelister> it just stoped working
2341 2011-04-01 23:23:27 <phantomcircuit> what's your ip?
2342 2011-04-01 23:23:57 <xelister> what diff does it make
2343 2011-04-01 23:24:11 <xelister> do you have any method to add more peers
2344 2011-04-01 23:24:23 <lfm> xelister actually I may have seen someting like that here too, dunno what caused it
2345 2011-04-01 23:25:59 <lfm> xelister: -addnode= on the command line
2346 2011-04-01 23:26:06 <xelister> lfm: I knooow
2347 2011-04-01 23:26:10 <xelister> but where to get the Ips
2348 2011-04-01 23:26:11 <xelister> IPs
2349 2011-04-01 23:26:34 <lfm> there is a forum thread for it for one thing
2350 2011-04-01 23:26:45 <xelister> for "my" bug?
2351 2011-04-01 23:26:49 <xelister> url?
2352 2011-04-01 23:26:53 <phantomcircuit> xelister, yes
2353 2011-04-01 23:27:03 <lfm> for ip numbers to use with -addnode
2354 2011-04-01 23:27:45 <phantomcircuit> xelister, http://codepad.org/8bmuP14M
2355 2011-04-01 23:27:47 <phantomcircuit> enjoy
2356 2011-04-01 23:28:46 <xelister> phantomcircuit: thanks, and how do you obrain that?
2357 2011-04-01 23:28:50 <lfm> you can use -addnode 75.158.131.108
2358 2011-04-01 23:29:04 <lfm> thats mine
2359 2011-04-01 23:29:06 octarine has left ()
2360 2011-04-01 23:29:12 <phantomcircuit> xelister, my custom node logs peer ips that are boardcast on the p2p network
2361 2011-04-01 23:29:41 <phantomcircuit> the idea is to give them scores to figure out who to connect with
2362 2011-04-01 23:30:22 <lfm> they have a last connect time score
2363 2011-04-01 23:30:41 <phantomcircuit> what?
2364 2011-04-01 23:31:24 <lfm> the addr database has node numbers each with their "last connect time/dat"
2365 2011-04-01 23:32:00 <phantomcircuit> oh
2366 2011-04-01 23:32:06 <phantomcircuit> yeah whatever dont care about the mainline client
2367 2011-04-01 23:32:50 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2368 2011-04-01 23:32:52 <xelister> phantomcircuit: cool
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2370 2011-04-01 23:37:45 <lfm> xelister this thread https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=59.0
2371 2011-04-01 23:38:06 <lfm> some of them might be too old now
2372 2011-04-01 23:40:47 NickelBot has joined
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2374 2011-04-01 23:42:09 <lfm> in the main sources in file net.cpp is a table of hex values called pnSeed that is ip addresses
2375 2011-04-01 23:42:48 <phantomcircuit> yeah or he could use mine
2376 2011-04-01 23:42:49 <phantomcircuit> :P
2377 2011-04-01 23:43:04 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2378 2011-04-01 23:43:10 <lfm> phantomcircuit: is your list the same nodes?
2379 2011-04-01 23:43:31 <phantomcircuit> doubtful since mines about 6k nodes
2380 2011-04-01 23:43:33 <phantomcircuit> ;)
2381 2011-04-01 23:44:18 <lfm> whered you get yours from a dump of your addr db?
2382 2011-04-01 23:44:34 <phantomcircuit> yes
2383 2011-04-01 23:45:02 <lfm> so it might include some dynamic ip numbers
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2386 2011-04-01 23:46:16 <phantomcircuit> lfm, i have no doubt that it does
2387 2011-04-01 23:46:27 <phantomcircuit> lfm, but once he's connected he'll get a ton of them from the network
2388 2011-04-01 23:46:32 <phantomcircuit> so it doesn't much matter
2389 2011-04-01 23:46:42 <xenon481> Slush: Congratulations on the go ahead for earning 20-30% more BTC!
2390 2011-04-01 23:48:03 <lfm> just it might be a poor idea to hard code init addresses that are dynamic and not running bitcoin any more. people could mistake em for security probes or something Iam thinking
2391 2011-04-01 23:48:45 <phantomcircuit> lfm, 99.9999% of people with a dynamic ip wont even realize it's happening
2392 2011-04-01 23:49:18 <gjs278> I've kept this comcast ip for over a year now
2393 2011-04-01 23:49:33 <gjs278> the trick is never changing your router's mac address
2394 2011-04-01 23:49:35 <phantomcircuit> comcast tends to give people mostly static ips
2395 2011-04-01 23:49:51 <lfm> just takes a couple security obsesives to claim bitcoin is a virus to cause trouble for everyone
2396 2011-04-01 23:50:01 <phantomcircuit> if you power it down for more than like a couple hours it'll get a new ip
2397 2011-04-01 23:50:09 <gjs278> nope
2398 2011-04-01 23:50:12 <lfm> maybe
2399 2011-04-01 23:50:14 <gjs278> I've been offline for a week
2400 2011-04-01 23:50:16 <gjs278> like
2401 2011-04-01 23:50:19 <gjs278> no service with them even
2402 2011-04-01 23:50:28 <gjs278> and I grabbed the same 67 ip right back
2403 2011-04-01 23:50:36 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, iirc comcast allocates ip's to regional offices
2404 2011-04-01 23:50:41 <phantomcircuit> so it might be different
2405 2011-04-01 23:50:46 <gjs278> yeah probably
2406 2011-04-01 23:51:25 <lfm> a lot of em the only time they reassign is if they do a loop split or something
2407 2011-04-01 23:51:33 <gjs278> I run a fake minecraft login server on this ip, so I would ruin it for about 20~ people if it ever changes since I'm hardcoded in their hosts file
2408 2011-04-01 23:53:30 <lfm> like if they have to move you to a new router
2409 2011-04-01 23:56:56 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, hard coded
2410 2011-04-01 23:56:58 <phantomcircuit> dear god why
2411 2011-04-01 23:57:23 <idnar> how else would you do it?
2412 2011-04-01 23:57:36 <lfm> its simplest to just put it in hosts
2413 2011-04-01 23:57:42 <phantomcircuit> dynamic dns
2414 2011-04-01 23:57:47 <phantomcircuit> it's sooo easy to setup
2415 2011-04-01 23:57:49 <idnar> the login server DNS name is hardcoded in the minecraft binary
2416 2011-04-01 23:57:58 <phantomcircuit> oh
2417 2011-04-01 23:57:58 <idnar> editing that is going to be a lot harder than editing your hosts file
2418 2011-04-01 23:58:03 <phantomcircuit> that login server
2419 2011-04-01 23:58:16 <phantomcircuit> oh you pirates you
2420 2011-04-01 23:58:26 <idnar> (unless I misunderstood what gjs278 is talking about)
2421 2011-04-01 23:58:32 echelon_ has joined
2422 2011-04-01 23:58:45 <idnar> you could run a local DNS cache that plays funny tricks, I guess
2423 2011-04-01 23:58:54 <lfm> still could use dyndns.com or something
2424 2011-04-01 23:59:14 echelon_ has quit (Client Quit)
2425 2011-04-01 23:59:34 toffoo has quit ()
2426 2011-04-01 23:59:56 <phantomcircuit> lfm, hosts file cannot point one domain to another
2427 2011-04-01 23:59:58 <ersi> It's still a fuckload easier to just use the hosts file.